# Kesh: Dreadlocks



## Gobinda

VJKK VJKF

As someone planning in the near future to request Amrit, I have discovered that dreadlocks are unacceptable. And if I have plans of receiving Amrit, I should be prepared to undo them. So that the Amrit may reach the hair. This is what I have been told. I am perplexed and confused. Not to mention disenheartened by this.

I created and I have maintained my dreadlocks for the last 3yrs. I know the misconception of people who have dreadlocks, is that they are dirty. Well it is a very untrue thought. I'm a stickler about being clean: hair, body, house, etc. I have even cut a few off and spliced them open, to make sure I was through with cleaning. My hair is at its healthiest (and fully in tact) since my 30 years of life.

I have super thick-wave/curly-medium/course hair. I'm of multiracial background: Comanche&Apache, African-American, Mexican, and a little down the line Caucasian. All the woman in my family have heads full full of hair. Different ranges of thickness and hair texture. My head is the thickest out of the bunch, hair upon hair. Seriously Amrit has a better chance of hitting all of my hair while style in dreadlocks vs. loose unraveled hair.

So why are dreadlocks so frowned upon and dislike within Sikhi? Is it the question of wearing and using the khanga? I hardly ever combed my loose hair, far too damaging to my hair. Honestly, I don't understand. Is it a question of being able to clean the hair? My dreadlocks are rocking clean. 

Where does one go from here? I have refused all other doors and I have come to His door. Am I to remain practicing Sikhi without the right to Amrit Sancher? As long has my health head of fully intact hair remains style dreadlocks? I'm feel quite down today after making this discovery.

Has anyone else experience this problem? If so, what are your thoughts and suggestions? Or just your thoughts about the subject?

Thanks
VJKK VJKF


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## kggr

I don't understand why people want to take Amrit.
Not that it's a bad thing.

I just don't get it.


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## Ishna

Gobinda bhainji

First, it's awesome to hear about your commitment to Sikhi. Second, welcome to SPN 

Regarding your question, Sikhs (especially amritdhari Sikhs) are to maintain a distinct identity. In India, dreadlocked or matted hair are associated with some Hindu holy men. When a Sikh receives the amritdhari initiation they are entering the Khalsa Fauj  (Khalsa army). Essentially it is exactly that, an army, with strict discipline and a uniform. When you become amritdhari you're giving up your own identity and adopting another one.

This is why you can't keep your dreadlocks if you want to become a member of the fauj.


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## Gobinda

I don't expect an Agnostic to understand at all. I just don't. Nothing wrong with being an Agnostic. Personally speaking, I am FAR from Agnosticism. It is not my intention to explain the way of my desire for Amrit Sanchar, Guruji does that quite well within Gurbani. My question is one of detail involved with the act.

However, if it is your desire to understand the why of those who seek Amrit. May one better than I come along to explain that to you.

Ishna, your explanation is the best one yet.  That I can understand.


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## Brother Onam

Gobinda ji,
You asked why dreadlocks are frowned upon in Sikh faith. You have to understand the environment which prevailed in India during the time of the Gurus. During the times that Sikh identity and purpose were being crystalized, India was full of "fakirs" and "sadhus", who, then as now, were probably on the balance more glorified beggars than genuine adepts. As a visible sign of their feats of renunciation, they wore their hair in "jat" or dreadlocks. 
So as to draw a clear distinction between these sadhus, who prided themselves on being no part of the "world" and rather begging for their food, and the family of lions that the Gurus were raising up, it was perscribed that Sikhs would keep their "kesh" combed, clean, and unshorn. For a Sikh, renunciation has no place, as we are very much hard-working and active members of the "world", but experiencing holiness in everyday activity.
Having said this, princess, it is also a fact that the regulations concerning kesh were given to a largely North-Indian peoples. The spread of Sikhi into communities around the world necessitates reconsidering some practicalities. In my dealings with African Sikhs (few, but proud!), it has become clear that keeping African hair uncut becomes increasingly more difficult and impractical, because kinky hair can indeed become virtually un-combable after a point. In my esteem, and that of the African lions I know, the only real option eventually becomes dreadlocks. But these_ must_ be worn in a conscious spirit of Sikhi, without allowing any implication of renunciation or hindu tapas to intrude. 
More power to you on your journey into deeper and deeper Sikhi! Sat Sri Akal!


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## Ikk Khalsa

Gobinda Ji,

Whoever have told you about Amrit reaching your hair is misguiding you. Amrit is not some Holy Magical water rather a promise to live your life certain way. Sikhi is more about cleaning your soul than body. Having said that keeping clean and staying healthy is also very important part of Sikhi.


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## kggr

Ikk Khalsa said:


> Gobinda Ji,
> 
> Whoever have told you about Amrit reaching your hair is misguiding you. Amrit is not some Holy Magical water rather a promise to live your life certain way. Sikhi is more about cleaning your soul than body. Having said that keeping clean and staying healthy is also very important part of Sikhi.



Ikk Khalsa ji well said.

Thats the Amrit I believe in the Spiritual Amrit.

I never visited a gurdwara or drank Holy Water to take that Amrit.
That Amrit comes from the heart.


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## Gobinda

Brother Onam Ji, I was hoping you would chime in with info!  So now it comes together, this stance against dreadlocks.  Thank you for that piece of the historic puzzle.  Again, I can understand that being a point of focus during that time of building the Khalsa and the Sikhs.  Yes, I agree that "The spread of Sikhi into communities around the world necessitates reconsidering some practicalities."  And this would be my pleasure, "But these_ must_ be worn in a conscious spirit of Sikhi, without allowing any implication of renunciation or hindu tapas to intrude."!  Wrapped in the most beautiful dastar, which is in the mail on the way.


Yes, Ikk Khalsa I am aware that Amrit is not just about it reaching your hair.  It is about giving your head to Guruji.  And following Hukam.  I understand it is not magical holy water.  This person was replying exclusively to my question of why can't I have dreadlocks.  Honestly, I don't think the person has much knowledge about dreadlocks outside that of the sadhus of India.  So he was answering the best that he could while defending the rehat.  So I sought answers elsewhere, for I know of a few Amritdharis who do have dreadlocks.  I'm unsure of when they grew them, before or after Amrit. I do agree with your thoughts.


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## spnadmin

Gobinda ji

Beautiful thinking from you. You rightly chose Gobinda for your name.


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## Luckysingh

Brother Onam said:


> Gobinda ji,
> You asked why dreadlocks are frowned upon in Sikh faith. You have to understand the environment which prevailed in India during the time of the Gurus. During the times that Sikh identity and purpose were being crystalized, India was full of "fakirs" and "sadhus", who, then as now, were probably on the balance more glorified beggars than genuine adepts. As a visible sign of their feats of renunciation, they wore their hair in "jat" or dreadlocks.
> So as to draw a clear distinction between these sadhus, who prided themselves on being no part of the "world" and rather begging for their food, and the family of lions that the Gurus were raising up, it was perscribed that Sikhs would keep their "kesh" combed, clean, and unshorn. For a Sikh, renunciation has no place, as we are very much hard-working and active members of the "world", but experiencing holiness in everyday activity.
> Having said this, princess, it is also a fact that the regulations concerning kesh were given to a largely North-Indian peoples. The spread of Sikhi into communities around the world necessitates reconsidering some practicalities. In my dealings with African Sikhs (few, but proud!), it has become clear that keeping African hair uncut becomes increasingly more difficult and impractical, because kinky hair can indeed become virtually un-combable after a point. In my esteem, and that of the African lions I know, the only real option eventually becomes dreadlocks. But these_ must_ be worn in a conscious spirit of Sikhi, without allowing any implication of renunciation or hindu tapas to intrude.
> More power to you on your journey into deeper and deeper Sikhi! Sat Sri Akal!


 
Omanji has explained that very well.
Just to add, - Back in the days of the gurus, the people that kept unshorn hair and were considered holy were these Sadhus of lord Shiva.
They would NOT use any combs for their hair and i'm not too sure about whether they washed them or not. If one lets the hair grow and does not comb them either, then quite naturally the locks will eventually form.
Guru Gobind Singh ji wanted us to keep the unshorn hair but he didn't want any confusion with these renunciate's. Therefore, he made the KANGA mandatory as one of the Kakkars. A sikh is to keep his/her hair combed and washed and wrapped in a Jurha under the turban.
This is what differentiates us between the Sadhus of Shiva and the Sikhs of Guruji.

From what I gather in your situation is that you maintain your hair with cleanliness and make sure it is kept healthy and nourished unlike the matted and neglected versions mentioned above.
Therefore, i don't think it matters if you have the well cared for, self styled dreadlocks in order to become amritdhari. Because you clearly don't fall into the _neglect_ and _don't touch _category.

Good luck and proceed as planned without letting others confuse you !
Problem with sikhi and most other faiths is that there are too many _''Self-righteous_'' sikhs with a _''holier than thou''_ attitude. 
I have slowly learned to distinguish and ignore these types.


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## Harry Haller

As Jesus is famous for saying 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone', 

Please do not allow yourself to get disheartened by foolish people that talk of physical penetration of Amrit, that is a very surface view and must be taken with a pinch of salt.

No one has the authority to tell you what to do or what it takes to be a good Sikh, invariably many of those that feel they do have this authority, have a 100% physically perfect Sikh appearance but sometimes questionable mental facets. Sikhism is about encouragement, unity and learning, after all, we are all here to learn (c Tejwantji). 

There are some, like myself, that would not even consider Amrit until we feel we are Sikh enough to do it, which invariably means the day gets pushed back and back while we wrestle our shortcomings, while there are others, like yourself, who wish to jump in and grow and learn and embrace, out of the two of us, I have a huge respect for people like yourself, people who see Amrit as the beginning and not the end, 

Sikhism is and should be more concerned with affairs of the heart and mind, practicality and pragmatism are way more important than hard and fast rules, but both are more important than convenience. I personally see nothing wrong with dreadlocks, in fact, thinking back, my hair resembled worse when I was in my teens, it took my mum nearly an evening once to unravel all the knots!

welcome to the forum sister.


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## Harry Haller

kggr said:


> I don't understand why people want to take Amrit.
> Not that it's a bad thing.
> 
> I just don't get it.



thats because you live in Amsterdam lol lol lol lol (btw I love the steak houses with the cowhide seats)

ok on a more serious note, which bit don't you get? The ceremony itself is just ceremony, the crux and often overlooked facet is how you live your life and by what code of conduct, if taking Amrit encourages you to live your life by the absolute truth and to spread the love everywhere you go, then all is good!


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

kggr said:


> Ikk Khalsa ji well said.
> 
> Thats the Amrit I believe in the Spiritual Amrit.
> 
> I never visited a gurdwara or drank Holy Water to take that Amrit.
> That Amrit comes from the heart.




ALL this is what you get when words are MISUSED. "AMRIT" is one of thsoe words MOST MISUSED by SIKHS.

SGGS declares it quite transaprently and clearly.."AMRIT is ONLY ONE TYPE...and its found in GURBANI ONLY. PERIOD.  Obviously SGGS is not a WELL/River/lake/OCEAN...so "amrit" to DRINK/SPRINKLE etc is not inside there.

The CORRECT WORD for what the PANJ Prepare and give to the Abhilakhees is PAHUL....as is written in EEVOH PAHUL KHANDEDHAAR HOVEH JANAM SUHELA"...in 1699 at Anandpur Sahib Guru Gobind Singh Ji placed FRESH WATER from the SATLUJ RIVER..into a Sarb Loh batta and stirred it with a Sarb Loh KHANDA.  This was the Very First PAHUL.

PAHUL is an INITIATION CEREMONY to enter into the KHALSA FAUJ/BROTHERHOOD. Its called Khandeh batte dee PAHUL. PERIOD. Calling this water "AMRIT" is grossly wrong.

FROM this slippery slope Many Sikhs have SLIPPED even LOWER...Now we ahve TAP WATER in BOTTLES placed under the SGGS...being called "AMRIT"....water used by some scumbag in a big chola and dirty feet to wash his feet..also being called "AMRIT" ( A video is viral on the net showing this...the Holy scumbag was in MALAYSIA at that time). The POOLS of flithy water filled by rain along the potholed roads leading to various deras..esp Sirsa Dera of ram rahim Sacha Sauda saadh is also called "Amrit" and ladies can be seen drinking from those poy holes like STRAY DOGS !!

To Conclude..SIKHS may soon be slipping deeper...who knows what next ??

1. AMRIT is NAAM IN GURBANI...SGGS ONLY.
2. The Panj give you PAHUL.
AMRIT of SGGS is available to All and every single person regardeless of creed caste religion colour height wieght whatever.
3. PAHUL is a COMMITMENT to the Principles of KHALSA. Its VOLUNTARY and only those of proper AGE of CONSENT should COMMIT to it.


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## kggr

If I'am not mistaken Khalsa means "Pure" right?

I don't know how someone can join Khalsa with taking part of a ceremony.
I think everyone with pure heart is Khalsa him self.


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## Harry Haller

kggr said:


> If I'am not mistaken Khalsa means "Pure" right?
> 
> I don't know how someone can join Khalsa with a ceremony.
> I think everyone with pure heart is Khalsa him self.


 
but if other people do not know you have a pure heart, how can they ask you for help?

Look at it like a marriage ceremony, except you are making vows to Creation!


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## kggr

harry haller said:


> but if other people do not know you have a pure heart, how can they ask you for help?
> 
> Look at it like a marriage ceremony, except you are making vows to Creation!



So by taking part of a ceremony others will know that you have a pure heart?

Also about marriage I also don't get that.
I mean what difference does marriage make. 
It's still same like cohabiting.


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## spnadmin

kggr said:


> So by taking part of a ceremony others will know that you have a pure heart?
> 
> Also about marriage I also don't ge
> I mean what difference does marriage make.
> It's still same like cohabiting.




kggr ji

Is marriage the same as cohabiting? Before the conversation becomes stumped by a number of different 'philosophical' takes on how to live as a Sikh, let me interrupt with this thought. 

The practice of any organized faith system involves the creation of norms which adherents are expected to follow. Taken as a faith system, Sikh*ism *is no different. Sikh*ism *prescribes anand karaj, the marriage ceremony, one of only 2 sacraments within the faith. 

No one has to get married. Marriage is a way that culture regulates sexuality, and regulates other things as well. Religion is the part of culture that blesses its own cultural norms through practices like the marriage ceremony. For some, yes, that is tyranny. 

Your question appears more about spirituality than religion or adherence to a faith system. The big mistake we can make is to confuse "religion" the formal way of a faith system with spirituality as adherents describe it. Religions after all are the invention of flesh and blood people, who over time devise a common experience, and share a culture, share norms. Getting married is one of those common experiences. In "Sikh*i*," the ethical path of Sikhs marriage takes place on 2 levels: the actual ceremony of anand karaj of a man and a woman, and the journey men and women take as individuals toward union with God through ShabadGuru.

So the thread is not about marriage. Let's stick to dreadlocks, the kakkars and chande de pahul - their place in Sikh*ism* and in Sikh*i*


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## Kamala

Dreadlocks aren't really frowned upon ALL Sikhs.

If you look at Sri Chand, son of our Guru: Sri Guru Nanak Sahib, he has dreadlocks and has gained Mukhti.

Out of my personal opinion, if you live alone, in the jungle.. it is okay to do so. But if you don't keep it clean and visit a Gurudwara, it isn't so good.


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## spnadmin

Kamala said:


> Dreadlocks aren't really frowned upon ALL Sikhs.
> 
> If you look at Sri Chand, son of our Guru: Sri Guru Nanak Sahib, he has dreadlocks and has gained Mukhti.
> 
> Out of my personal opinion, if you live alone, in the jungle.. it is okay to do so. But if you don't keep it clean and visit a Gurudwara, it isn't so good.



Kamala ji

1. What is the evidence that Sri Chand had dreadlocks?

2. His dread locks not withstanding, Sri Chand bolted from the path taught by his father, Guru Nanak, of his own volition. Bhai Gurdas ji considers Sri Chand an excellent example of someone who missed the point. *He is not a figure one would use to shed light on this conversation. *You have gone off-topic on other threads today. Actually to bring him up is off-topic. Please desist. Thanks.


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## Ikk Khalsa

Sri Chand's contribution to "Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji" (which is our Guru forever) is ZERO. If he was born in Guru Nanak Dev Ji's house, doesn't  mean he was a Sikh.


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## kggr

The main purpose is in life is to merge with God.

I think dreadlocks won't be a problem to gain Mukthi.
It's OP choice if she likes it she can keep it.


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## spnadmin

Ikk Khalsa said:


> Sri Chand's contribution to "Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji" (which is our Guru forever) is ZERO. If he was born in Guru Nanak Dev Ji's house, doesn't  mean he was a Sikh.



Thanks. I hope your words ring as loud and as clear for everyone else as they do for me.


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## Kamala

kggr said:


> The main purpose is in life is to merge with God.
> 
> I think dreadlocks won't be a problem to gain Mukthi.
> It's OP choice if she likes it she can keep it.



I certainly agree with you. People need to open their eyes. Such a small matter will not alter your future if done correctly


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

kggr said:


> If I'am not mistaken Khalsa means "Pure" right?
> 
> I don't know how someone can join Khalsa with taking part of a ceremony.
> I think everyone with pure heart is Khalsa him self.



self deception right ?? freedom to Walk IN..and OUT as and when one pleases ? right ? When feeling "pure" believe ones self to be Khalsa..when faced with "Convert or DIE..Guru Arjun Ji..Guru Teg bahadur Ji..Bhai Mati dass Ji..Bhai taru Sigh Ji..etc....SUBMIT QUIETLY and admit..OH Islam is also PURE ?? Right ??
Fortunately not Right at all...NOT a SINGLE one said that and converted..or gave up their "KHALSAHOOD"...

The Khalsa I am talking about is the one that Guru Gobind Singh ji declares as "MERA ROOP HAI KHAS...and the roop that stays NIARA..DISTINCT and DISTINGUISHABLE in a crowd of Hundreds Thousands..the Roop that has VISIBLE DISCIPLINE....RIGHT ?? YES right.

This KHALSA requires the Discipline..and the REHAT..and the ROOP as well as a PURE HEART.   When Guru Gobind Singh Ji drew a Naked sword and asked for a HEAD..He wasnt looking   (via??? Maybe some sort of Invisible  Lser eye at everyones hearts and checking IF they were PURE/Dirty/Filthy....I SERIOUSLY DOUBT anyone has this Laser Eye even Today to check PURITY...)
and when DYA RAAM stood up and offered his head..and Guru Ji took it...and then again another FOUR TIMES...and then FINALLY GURU GOBIND SINGH JI HIMSELF KNELT DOWN before the PANJ to recieve the PAHUL and JOIN the KHALSA...any one seriously doubt Guru ji had PURE heart or not ?? RIGHT ???  NO JI SERIOUSLY WRONG.


Playing with WORDS...is NOT RIGHT.PERIOD.  The PAHUL is simply a CEREMONY..voluntary and not coecerd on anyone..whether one is PURE or FILTHY depends on ONES SELF...and YES a FILTHY one can "cheat" the PANJ and enter the PAHUL and emerge a "KHALSA"..just as easily....But at the end of the day its SELF DECEPTION...that he is now PURE !!! Such a Khalsa will be the first to RUN away from Battle..be the first to CONVERT..etc. RIGHT ?? You bet.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Kamala said:


> Dreadlocks aren't really frowned upon ALL Sikhs.
> 
> If you look at Sri Chand, son of our Guru: Sri Guru Nanak Sahib, he has dreadlocks and has gained Mukhti.
> 
> Out of my personal opinion, if you live alone, in the jungle.. it is okay to do so. But if you don't keep it clean and visit a Gurudwara, it isn't so good.



Any information on..Bhai dassu and Bhai Dattu ji (one who KICKED Guru Amardass ji in snagat for being overlooked by his father Guru Angad sahib ji for the Gurgadee)...Bhai Prithyah Chand.(  elder brother of Guru Arjun Ji who actively assited Bhai Chandu ji in the martyrdom of Guru Arjun Ji..and a host of others who like Bhai Sri chand had dreadlocks.???.and also attained Mukhti ??

The GURUS had lots of relatives, sons, etc..who must have attained mukhti like Sri Chand despite disobeying their Fathers (GURU SAHIBS)....but Sikh history doesnt mention them...i wonder why they are neglected since they too attained Mukhti by being disobedient, disrespectful and downright envious and full of enmity and revenge too...One guy SHOT at Guru teg bahadur jia nd MISSED..today his descendats run a HUGE DERA..where they drive out BHOOTS..and dish out MUKHTI to followers...Dera Wadbhag Singh !!! Imho MUKHTI is also available there..and of course Baba Wadbhag Singh is MUKHT too...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Kamala said:


> It's just obvious he had dread locks. The only reason why he had the path he has is because of our 1st Guru. Our 1st Guru prescribed the Sikh Udasi path for him.
> 
> I brought him up because he is a Sikh (*with dread locks*) who has gained Mukhti, almost all the Gurus after Sri Guru Nanahk Sahib have seeked darshan from Sri Chand and have bowed down to him.




Anyone and Everyone who EVER BOWED down is mentioned in SGGS...but SRI CHAND, Dassu, Dattu, Prithiyah Chand m etc etc are NOT among those. *The SGGS is AUTHENTIC .*

This Sri chand theory is a total FAKE...disobedient to the point that Guru Nanak ji REJECTED him as the next GURU is beyond reproach as true fact.


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## Kamala

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Anyone and Everyone who EVER BOWED down is mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...but SRI CHAND, Dassu, Dattu, Prithiyah Chand m etc etc are NOT among those. *The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is AUTHENTIC .*
> 
> This Sri chand theory is a total FAKE...disobedient to the point that Guru Nanak ji REJECTED him as the next GURU is beyond reproach as true fact.



I meant to say the other Sikh Gurus bowed down to Sri Chand. 
If I remember correctly, he did NOT want Gurugudee, and a Sikh Guru has also given one of his sons to Sri Chand as well, our Gurus know best.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is certainly authentic, I agree!!

While I do not know why his bani is not in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, it doesn't mean he is najais.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

This is also FAKE. Baba Gurditta was born in 1613 and died in 1638 aged 15.

Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji MET Sri Chand BEFORE the Birth of Baba Gurditta ji in 1613...and Sri Chand DIED in 1629...when Baba Gurditta Ji was just 15. In Fact 4 out of the five sons of Guru hargobind ji died during the lifetime of Guru Ji...ONLY Guru Teg bahadur ji survived.

2. Baba Attall rai third son of Guru hargobind ji REVIVED a DEAD BODY..and Guru ji told him he would have to recompense that by giving up his own life...YET one of Sri Chands MIRACLES is REVIVING DEAD BODIES ??? A Guru who teaches his own SON Attal rai..something..IGNORES it and "bows" to Sri Chand ?? and how did Sri Chand escape the punishment that Attal rai received for reviving dead bodies ??
Fact is ALL these are TALL TALES spun by the wily BIPPAR to waylay SIKHS form the true Path of SGGS...

NO one bowed to anyone...ALL those who BOWED are NAMED in SGGS. SO IF any Guru did bow to sri chand..its NOT MENTIONED in SGGS....WHY ?? why leave out such a VITAL info ?? fact is its not true.


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## spnadmin

I would like to see a return to discussion of dreadlocks. Sometime back I made this request and expected it to be taken seriously.

A 21st Century cartoon of Guru Gobind Singh and his sons, worshiping Sri Chand (blue with dreadlocks), who was dead by the time of the 10th Master is evidence of WHAT?

No one has any longer to hold up the argument against these chronic Mahant explanations of Sikhi, its history and scriptures. You can take a well-deserved break now and enjoy the on-going discussion. 

There is no rule against interpretations of Sikhi and its history that are out of sync with historical evidence. Opinion is welcome. Not welcome is a pattern of visits to the forum taken up with purely imaginary information and cartoons. Often this has taken the form of half-baked Hindu philosophy .Maybe that is even what happened in the times of our Gurus. It will not happen here. 

As a reminder, although SPN does not endorse the point of view of a poster, SPN does have terms of service that require staying on topic and condemns statements that undermine Sikhism or the Sikh Gurus and their sacred texts. Comments can be deleted without warning. Continued infractions, chronic inability to represent Sikhism with respect, and refusal to heed admin requests leads to suspension of privileges on this network. All that was gained by the discussion and picture posting of Sri Chand was to trivialize the serious inquiries of the OP.

Thanks


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## kggr

I wonder how you guys can tell if one gained Mukhti or not?

Sry i didnt read the post above. Admin ji you can remove this post.


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## spnadmin

kggr ji

Just begin another thread on the subject. We can leave this here. Innocent on your part.


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## Gobinda

*Luckysingh*:  Thank you for further historic knowledge.  I can understand the distinction that Guruji wanted to make between His Sikhs and the others.  Yes, you are correct, my dreadlocks are clean and well kept.  I decided to style my hair with dreadlocks out of practicality, ease, and health of my hair.  My decision had nothing to do with renunciation or being a follower of Shiva or any other.  I also have no issues with declaring that these dreadlocks are for the ease of keeping kesh inline with Hukam, and or course I will keep kanga as well   I will wear a turban, so not many will even know they are there.  You have hit a great point on the head, ignore those holy rollers and continue as planned.  And this is what I shall do, which nowadays means gathering up the remaining 5Ks on my to buy list 


*Harry Holler:* I've been studying with Sikhi for almost a year now.  I have walked many different religious paths and lived in different countries in search of such connection.  In many ways, this is the end for me   So along this train of thought, I have found Satguru and now by Guruji's kirpa I want to give my head.  Shortcomings will always remain.  What I do with them or in spite of them is the focus.  I don't think I will ever feel worthy or completely ready, of such a grace as Pahul.  Ultimately, my emotional feelings are of no great consequence in this regard.  It is my turn and I want to play....

*Kggr:*  Becoming apart of the Khalsa via Pahul is about much more then being pure or the roop.  Now those two are for sure apart of it, but it is the act of giving one's head and following Hukam that is essential.  Guruji Himself also took part of the ceremony, which gives an indication of the importance of the ceremony.  He goes from Gobind Rai to Gobind Singh, along with His Sikhs.  The roop of the Khalsa also has great significance.  The Shadeedi of Sir Guru Teg Bahadur Ji, the father of Sir Guru Gobind Signh Ji, is why we have the roop.  Fascinating read, google it!  There is much, for lack of a better word, theology found within the Pahul.

I do not believe that having dreadlocks will place me outside of Guruji's kirpa.  My question is more along the lines of, will I be refused by the Panj and denied Pahul because my kesh is dreadlocks (therefore out of bounds with rehat.)  It hadn't crossed my mind that my hair could possibly be a barrier until now, after listening to a lecture.  

*Kamila:*  I do agree dirty hair would not be a good thing   Have no fear, my hair is always fresh&clean.  I take great joy in creating my own shampoo/conditioners&oils.  The babes are well cared for and grow like dazed weeds.  And yes, I do think greater things are of more importance, and deserve even greater thought than dreadlocks.

*Gyani Jarnail Singh:* That is a great lesson, using the correct name!  One that must be remembered!  Thank you for sharing it here!  Yeah, I do believe we will slip further before we rise.  Hopefully not too much further.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

The Punj never actually take hold of your hair and comb it or soemthing...what they do is just EXPOSE the Top of the HEAD and sprinkle the Pahul there five times while you say the FATEH after them....so dreadlocks covered with dastaar/Patka would get the same treatment...no problem.


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## Ishna

Could they be covered with something other than a dastaar or patka?

I imagine it would be more like a dumalla trying to make a turban over dreadlocks?


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## Brother Onam

Gobinda ji,
I feel you when you speak of arriving at the Door. Sister, I don't know where you plan to seek Pahul; will it be in India? If so, be prepared for some funny looks. In Punjab one doesn't encounter so many foreigners, especially from other races, so what is just bafflement or curiosity may be misinterpreted as rudeness. Please don't let that put you off; the love of the people is genuine and sincere.
In Pahul ceremony, you should be asked the open dashtar a bit to allow Amrit to fall on the head; one needn't uncover more than a bit, so locks ought not be an issue, or even noticed. If you think it may be an issue, you may also approach a piyare before the ceremony, to avoid potential awkwardness at the moment.
To the community: if I've stated anything wrong, please I stand to be corrected.
Gobinda ji, in the Bible (Deut 28:2) there is a passage: "And ...blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, because you obey the voice of the Lord". It sounds like you are indeed being led by the bani of Guru; blessings on the journey. 


ਬਹੁਤੁ  ਦੁਆਰੇ  ਭ੍ਰਮਿ  ਭ੍ਰਮਿ  ਆਇਆ  ॥

After wandering around at so many doors, I have come to Yours, O Lord.


ਤੁਮਰੀ  ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ  ਤੇ  ਤੁਮ  ਸਰਣਾਇਆ  ॥

By Your Grace, I have entered Your Sanctuary.


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## Ishna

Brother Onam Ji, we need to paste full shabad with ang reference; we can't post tuks out of context.  Can you fix please?  Thank you. eacesignkaur:


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## Brother Onam

Sorry, is Maru Mehl 5:14
ਬਹੁਤੁ  ਦੁਆਰੇ  ਭ੍ਰਮਿ  ਭ੍ਰਮਿ  ਆਇਆ  ॥

After wandering around at so many doors, I have come to Yours, O Lord.
ਤੁਮਰੀ  ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ  ਤੇ  ਤੁਮ  ਸਰਣਾਇਆ  ॥

By Your Grace, I have entered Your Sanctuary.
ਸਦਾ  ਸਦਾ  ਸੰਤਹ  ਸੰਗਿ  ਰਾਖਹੁ  ਏਹੁ  ਨਾਮ  ਦਾਨੁ  ਦੇਵਾਇਣਾ  ॥੧੪॥

Forever and ever, keep me in the Company of the Saints; please bless me with this Gift of Your Name. ||14||


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## Gobinda

*Gyani Jarnail Singh:* Yeah, I thought the same thing before listening to the lecture and reading the caption, no dreadlocks. Hopefully, I'm just overreacting to the initial introduction of what is possibly the view of dreadlocks within Sikhi.

*Ishna:* There many styles one can wear with dreadlocks, while wrapping a turban. There are also many factors to be taken into consideration. Like thickness, quantity, and length. My dreadlocks are at bra-strap length and thickness has been lessened with quantity. So I have a fair amount of pencil sized dreadlocks, and a few maker sized ones.

I simply make a rishi knot (now this knot when wrapped loosely is bigger, and when wrapped tightly is smaller) at the crown, now this does become a very nice sized knot. I don't need any extra padding. After that point, I wrap a simple woman's house turban (for now, I'm new to wrapping turbans. I will branch out) However, I believe the typical 3HO (woman) turban styled will also wrap nicely with my dreadlocks and may be the best bet for Pahul. And yes, dumallah would also be a great choice for dreadlocks and those who have a lot of heavy thick hair. I think the key points when wrapping such hair as above is to have a generous amount of fabric, 5 meters at the minimum, and to be innovative in creating new methods of wrapping. And also open to making modifications to other traditional wraps/turbans to create your own. I have been inspired by other traditional headcovers: Jewish, Muslim, and various African cultures. A little bit of this and a little bit of that, and bam a turban made to fit my kesh. If worried of being mistaken for another, pin a Khanda atop the turban.

*Brother Onam:* I had a feeling you would understand  I plan to receive Pahul in my hometown of Austin, TX. Although, it could happen in San Antonio. I do have plans to visit India, so thank you for the heads up.

Nice Biblical verse, and thank you for the blessings. That has been the most repeated advice, to speak to the Panj before Pahul if I think it an issue. So I will take it and do just that before the ceremony.

I thank you all for the replies, support, and further knowledge. Sat Siri Akaal!


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## Brother Onam

SPNAdmin, please, I was mentioning to Gobinda about Black Sikhs in India. My brother, Daya Singh, has just moved to Punjab with his wife and daughter; the only African Sikhs they've ever seen. And they are embraced with full love and warmth.
He just sent me this photo, and I hoped to include it in the forum. If you believe this is the wrong thread, please feel free to repost it elsewhere; hopefully where Gobinda might see it.
Sat Sri Akal to all, Onam


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## spnadmin

I wanted to use this picture as the header for the thread and move the thread to the spotlight. Then I realized that dreadlocks do not equal black sikhs and black sikhs do not equal dreadlocks. So I was stumped. The photo is stupendous, absolutely riveting in its emotional tone. A mixture of chardi kala, good humor, confidence and strength.

So now I am think we should start a thread that lives up to the photo. Usually one picks a photo for a thread. This time we need to pick a topic for the photo. So much applies, and it all has to be uplifting.


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## Gobinda

Brother Onam!  That is such a beautiful heart warming photo!  It made for a smile on a grey day.  Thank you for sharing!  May your friend and his family have Guru's kirpa in this new beginning!


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