# IAF strike into Pakistan---in my words



## ashdoc

First of all , the decision to strike was inevitable because the Jaish e Mohammed was going to terror bomb again after the Pulwama attack .

Our intelligence agents from RAW had found out that the JEM had shifted many terrorists from their launch pads along LOC to balakot in Pakistan . Here they were in a training camp cum resort with firing range for practicing and swimming pool as well . Head of this camp was Azhar Yusuf , who was brother in law of JEM chief Masood Azhar.




Our 12 french built mirage 2000 jets took off from their main base of Gwalior in central India rather than any forward base in order to surprise . If they had been shifted to forward base then ISI spies would have conveyed the info to Pakistan . After the mirages took off they underwent mid air refuelling from 2 Russian built Ilyushin 78 air tankers which had flown in from Agra .

As the mirages moved towards Pakistan they were joined by some Sukhoi 30 MKI air dominance fighters from Bareilly and halwara air bases , whose task was to protect them from air attack . The whole formation crossed the LOC and then into Pakistan itself . Additional sukhois were flying along the LOC in case an air battle broke out . Indeed some Pakistani fighter jets were directed towards the formation but went back and did not attack because they were Chinese tech inferior jf 17 fighters unable to match our fighters .

All this was happening around 3 am in dead of night . At 3 .27 am the mirages released their payload on the target . It consisted of Israeli built spice 2000 laser guided bombs . The laser designator paints the target with a beam of laser and the bomb then rides along the beam to smash into the target . Also some Israeli built AGM 142 ( Popeye 2 ) missiles were fired from a distance of 60 to 80 km . The destruction was complete and at least 300 jehadis were killed . Some camps near LOC were hit too . They had been identified by Israeli built heron drones by aerial surveillance .

The balakot camp was spread over 6 acres , so 6 big 1000 kg bombs were used . It is 64 km from abottabad where Osama bin Laden was killed . The havoc rose nearby villagers from their sleep according to BBC Urdu , which took interviews of the villagers . The villagers thought that some earthquake was shaking them out of their sleep . The Indian fighter jets returned to their bases by 4 am . The IAF was using Phalcon AWACS and another mini AWACS to track enemy fighters . AWACS is plane with huge 400 km range radar that detects enemy fighters and transfers that info to our fighters by data link . The AWACS flew from Bhatinda air base .

This is the first air attack by a nuclear power on the territory of another nuclear power . So it is a record of sorts . Jai Hind !!


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## ashdoc

one Indian pilot becomes prisoner of war

What happened is that as Pakistani jets entered Indian territory and dropped glide bombs the Indian pilot in old mig 21 chased them . That was his mistake . He should have left the chasing to new modern mig 29 or mirage or Sukhoi . Inspite of having old mig 21 he shot down a Pak jet . But the Pak pilot fell in their own territory and we have no prisoner to show . On the other hand our pilot is caught as his lone plane was attacked by several Pak planes in their territory. We should salute our brave pilot flying his old fighter into Pak territory . When yesterday our modern aircraft attacked Pak no Pakistan plane dared to challenge them . Ran away despite being scrambled .

On defence forum of India they are saying that indian PM Modi has lost initiative with captured pilot who is being paraded by pakistan on TV . Domestic pressure will build to get him released. But if Modi tries for peace right now he will be labelled as warmonger who had to accept initiative of peacemaker pakistani PM imran Khan , and will lose face in front of electorate . So it is important that he does not back out of action now .


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## Logical Sikh

ashdoc said:


> one Indian pilot becomes prisoner of war
> 
> What happened is that as Pakistani jets entered Indian territory and dropped glide bombs the Indian pilot in old mig 21 chased them . That was his mistake . He should have left the chasing to new modern mig 29 or mirage or Sukhoi . Inspite of having old mig 21 he shot down a Pak jet . But the Pak pilot fell in their own territory and we have no prisoner to show . On the other hand our pilot is caught as his lone plane was attacked by several Pak planes in their territory. We should salute our brave pilot flying his old fighter into Pak territory . When yesterday our modern aircraft attacked Pak no Pakistan plane dared to challenge them . Ran away despite being scrambled .
> 
> On defence forum of India they are saying that indian PM Modi has lost initiative with captured pilot who is being paraded by pakistan on TV . Domestic pressure will build to get him released. But if Modi tries for peace right now he will be labelled as warmonger who had to accept initiative of peacemaker pakistani PM imran Khan , and will lose face in front of electorate . So it is important that he does not back out of action now .


So you want him to continue attacking just so that he dont lose face in coming elections ?


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## ashdoc

Logical Sikh said:


> So you want him to continue attacking just so that he dont lose face in coming elections ?



If we back down now then Pulwama like attacks will be regular in Kashmir and elsewhere . We need to teach Pakistan a lesson or it will increase it's terrorism . Any backing right now when our pilot is captured with his plane down and another helicopter down will embolden the Pakistanis . Maybe I put it in wrong words , but actually the whole nation will lose face . Modi will too but that's not important . But I won't support him ever if he backs down now . I was saying in context of his perception in my mind .


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## Logical Sikh

ashdoc said:


> If we back down now then Pulwama like attacks will be regular in Kashmir and elsewhere . We need to teach Pakistan a lesson or it will increase it's terrorism . Any backing right now when our pilot is captured with his plane down and another helicopter down will embolden the Pakistanis . Maybe I put it in wrong words , but actually the whole nation will lose face . Modi will too but that's not important . But I won't support him ever if he backs down now . I was saying in context of his perception in my mind .


Agree with the point that we need to teach them a lesson.....


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## Harry Haller

War is always an excellent way of uniting people!


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## Logical Sikh

Logical Sikh said:


> Agree with the point that we need to teach them a lesson.....





Harry Haller said:


> War is always an excellent way of uniting people!


Not through war ofcourse.


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## Harry Haller

Logical Sikh said:


> Not through war ofcourse.


then through what? humanity? peace?


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## Logical Sikh

im no expert on that


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## ashdoc

Pakistan says it will release captured Indian pilot as gesture of peace tomorrow .

Tomorrow is another day . What if further violation of LOC by Pakistani fighter jets occurs and situation escalates and Pakistan backtracks on its promise ? Let us hope for best .


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## Logical Sikh

ashdoc said:


> Pakistan says it will release captured Indian pilot as gesture of peace tomorrow .
> 
> Tomorrow is another day . What if further violation of LOC by Pakistani fighter jets occurs and situation escalates and Pakistan backtracks on its promise ? Let us hope for best .


Yeh lets hope for best. 
But i was thinking, Modi can go to pakistan for wishing Nawaz his birthday, 
But he wont go for peace talks..... Strange.


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## A_seeker

ashdoc said:


> one Indian pilot becomes prisoner of war
> 
> What happened is that as Pakistani jets entered Indian territory and dropped glide bombs the Indian pilot in old mig 21 chased them . That was his mistake . He should have left the chasing to new modern mig 29 or mirage or Sukhoi . Inspite of having old mig 21 he shot down a Pak jet . But the Pak pilot fell in their own territory and we have no prisoner to show . On the other hand our pilot is caught as his lone plane was attacked by several Pak planes in their territory. We should salute our brave pilot flying his old fighter into Pak territory . When yesterday our modern aircraft attacked Pak no Pakistan plane dared to challenge them . Ran away despite being scrambled .



Mig 21 gunned down the F-16.Well what it means that "Machine is not important Man behind machine is important"

America has Warned Pakisthan not to use american r weapons(F-16) without their permission.
US sold F16  to pakisthan  in 2016 under the part Foreign Military Fianacing ,as Pak promised to use them for fighting Terrorism>Now they have used them in offensive role against India.Its a clear VIOLATION.


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## ashdoc

India Says Its MiG-21 Just Scored World's 1st F-16 Kill
					

Century of service between them, the IAF says its MiG-21 just scored world's 1st kill of a U.S-built F-16.




					www.livefistdefence.com
				




World's first F 16 kill ?


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## Harry Haller

Ahhh its always heartwarming when two third world countries on the receiving end of much western aid and arms can show everyone their new airplanes and bombs, I think we should all be very proud!


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## ashdoc

Jitsi Meet
					

Join a WebRTC video conference powered by the Jitsi Videobridge




					thewitness.in


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## Admin

ashdoc said:


> Jitsi Meet
> 
> 
> Join a WebRTC video conference powered by the Jitsi Videobridge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thewitness.in



Is there any creditable resource? This one looks dubious.


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## Admin

IMHO, Abhinandan should be Court Martialed for disobeying his senior's direct orders of not to indulge with enemy aircraft and his over-zealous attitude may have jeopardized all Indian initiative in this conflict. Actually, it did shift the initiative by allowing Pakistan to get to a level pegging in this conflict and even handed over all the initiative to Pakistan... just my two cents...


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## Logical Sikh

Aman Singh said:


> IMHO, Abhinandan should be Court Martialed for disobeying his senior's direct orders of not to indulge with enemy aircraft and his over-zealous attitude may have jeopardized all Indian initiative in this conflict. Actually, it did shift the initiative by allowing Pakistan to get to a level pegging in this conflict and even handed over all the initiative to Pakistan... just my two cents...


Makes sense. 
But then we will vote for BJP ?


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## ashdoc

Aman Singh said:


> Is there any creditable resource? This one looks dubious.











						Pilot of downed Pakistan Air Force F-16 Shahaz-ud-Din mistaken for Indian airman, lynched by Nowshera mob-India News , Firstpost
					

Pakistan Air Force Wing Commander Shahaz-ud-Din, the F-16 pilot shot down in a dogfight over the Nowshera sector, is reported to have been lynched by a mob who mistook him for an Indian airman




					www.firstpost.com


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## Admin




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## A_seeker

This quote sums up how we all are news channel by birth

*"The greatest mistake we humans make in our relationships; We listen half, understand quarter, think zero and react double."*


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## swarn bains

India did not shoot any pakistani plane, they were showing the missiles fired by them. they had to say that they also shot down a plane but not so. it is for face saving. mig21 is also a compatible plane to any other. it did not go down because of that. it is all propaganda to hypnotize the public


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## ashdoc

On defence forum of India the Indian response to Pakistani ingress into our side of the LOC is not being considered satisfactory . While the Pakistanis fired 4 to 5 beyond visual range missiles ( BVRs ) we did not fire them at all . The reason being given is that civilian airliners were flying in our territory and one of the BVRs could have hit a civilian airliner as BVR has long range . BVRs reportedly are allowed to be fired only when civilian air traffic has been shut down . In fact only one short range missile was fired , the one by Wing commander Abhinandan Vardhaman . The whole response from the Indian side is being considered unsatisfactory on defence forum of India .


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## Harry Haller

Personally I prefer your movie analysis, I quite enjoy reading that, I normally get a balanced and intelligent view of the movie.


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## ashdoc

Harry Haller said:


> Personally I prefer your movie analysis, I quite enjoy reading that, I normally get a balanced and intelligent view of the movie.



My post above yours is not my analysis . It is based on discussion on DFI ( defence forum of India ) .


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## ashdoc

Most of the American BVRs the Pakistani pilots fired failed to reach their targets except the one that shot wing commander Abhinandan Vardhaman . So every cloud has a silver lining .


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## ashdoc

The Sukhois were able to successfully jam all the American BVRs and made them ineffective . But Wing commander Abhinandan Vardhaman went across the LOC in his bid to get the Pakistani plane and beyond the range of the sukhoi's jamming range . Hence he got hit by BVR .


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## ashdoc

From DFI---

The Sukhois did not fire BVR missiles because while jamming the Pak missiles they were also maneuvering to not get hit by Pak missiles . So it was difficult to launch missiles while maneuvering . When the Pak planes turned away it was decided not to attack them as they were 24 against only 8 of our jets . So the odds were 3 to 1 in their favour by numbers . So the mystery as to why our BVR missiles were not launched is solved .


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## Harry Haller

ashdoc said:


> My post above yours is not my analysis . It is based on discussion on DFI ( defence forum of India ) .



Given that this is a Sikh philosophy forum, and given that Sikh philosophy is universal and untied to any particular country, then this post is pretty one sided and reads more like a propaganda statement, should you not post similar statements from the defence forum for Pakistan?

You also use the word 'we' quite a lot, I am a Sikh, but have little interest in the affairs of either India or Pakistan, why have you assumed that just because I am a Sikh, I will automatically consider the affairs of India as my own? If the two countries wish to have a playground spat and then spend the next 6 months using it for propaganda that is up to them, it has little to do with me. 

But, as I said earlier, your movie reviews are great, and impartial..........


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## ashdoc

Harry Haller said:


> Given that this is a Sikh philosophy forum, and given that Sikh philosophy is universal and untied to any particular country, then this post is pretty one sided and reads more like a propaganda statement, should you not post similar statements from the defence forum for Pakistan?
> 
> You also use the word 'we' quite a lot, I am a Sikh, but have little interest in the affairs of either India or Pakistan, why have you assumed that just because I am a Sikh, I will automatically consider the affairs of India as my own? If the two countries wish to have a playground spat and then spend the next 6 months using it for propaganda that is up to them, it has little to do with me.
> 
> But, as I said earlier, your movie reviews are great, and impartial..........



Sikh philosophy is no doubt universal . But very few Sikhs are in Pakistani armed forces, but on the other hand many more Sikhs are in Indian armed forces . Indeed the current chief of the IAF which carried out the strike is a Sikh , air chief Marshal Birender Singh Dhanoa . Most Sikhs living in the subcontinent live in India . So I am within my rights in thinking that Sikhs are of Indian origin even if they live in foreign countries.


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## Admin

ashdoc said:


> Indeed the current chief of the IAF which carried out the strike is a Sikh.



In worldly terms, any person, who is a citizen of any country by birth is expected to be loyal to that country. So, a Sikh, a Hindu or a Muslim born in India or Pakistan or for that matter any country is expected to be loyal to that country. Religious preferences have nothing to do with a loyality to a particular nation.

What if in future, Pakistan happens to appoint a Sikh or a Hindu as Air Chief Marshall, isn't s/he expected to be loyal to that country? There are many Sikhs and Hindus at prominent positions in a Muslim countries like Malaysia, aren't they expected to be loyal to that country?

*Admin Note: As this thread serves no purpose on a philosophy forum, it is now closed for further discussions.*


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