# Chairs Or Floor



## punjabi004 (Aug 15, 2005)

Hi guys I'm from canada and here is a huge problems about tables and siting on the floor to eat lunch has been for past many years. Now if you sit on the floor or table that is your business i don't care but if you sit on the floor would you go to a temple where they sit on the tables to pray and if you sit on the table would you go to a temple where they sit on the floor to pray?


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## etinder (Aug 15, 2005)

dear punjabi
the above issue was discussed at great length in the following thread

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikhphilosophy/controversial-debates/995-ok-have-langar-chairs-n-tables.html
please check

gurufateh


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## vijaydeep Singh (May 11, 2006)

Gurfateh

Table is OK and no ritualism in praying too.


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## Lionchild (May 11, 2006)

vijaydeep Singh said:
			
		

> Gurfateh
> 
> Table is OK and no ritualism in praying too.



table is NOT ok.. because we should sit as one on the floor and take at a sign as freeing all forms of casts/race/language. That's the whole point, if we just sit at tables, what's the point of langar? we might as well be at home! (where this stuff can easily be done)

I often see little kids and ppl who shouldnt notbe useing the tables, the only esception is the elderly and ppl in wheelchairs.


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## vijaydeep Singh (May 11, 2006)

Gurfateh
Lord Jesus sat on table during last supper,So we may have more feeling of eqaulity then say ritualy sitting on floor.But das agreee that on floor we can accommodate as much people as we can while on table it is difficult.And on table we may not be able to do service as good as on floor but in Areas were we have culturaly tables only say in eskimos or hill area where floor can not be good table can be OK.Anyway das agree to starr.


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## punjabi004 (May 11, 2006)

Hey Mr. Bains Tables is OK and if you don't go to a gurdwara that has tables your disobaying and disrespecting the guru granth sahib. What if one of your brothers is cooking dal and one is cooking meat where would you go, to the brother that has dal right cause you probally can't eat meat right? But he's still your brother and the same thing goes here where there is a guru granth sahib NOONE should decide that I don't wanna go to that gurd wara because it has tables your opposing a great deal of PAP (Bad Luck) on your head. By the way the person that decides after hundreds of years later we should sit on the floor is married to a girl his daughters age. If he wants to live by the 19 centry rules why doesn't he go from place to place on a horse or maybe a donkey why is he driving a car. Think about it man being a true sikh is not fighting for who sits where its about the respect you give the gurus the true 11 gurus not these idots that come today and decide where we should sit. Times have changed man. :}--}:


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## Lionchild (May 11, 2006)

punjabi004 said:
			
		

> Hey Mr. Bains Tables is OK and if you don't go to a gurdwara that has tables your disobaying and disrespecting the guru granth sahib. What if one of your brothers is cooking dal and one is cooking meat where would you go, to the brother that has dal right cause you probally can't eat meat right?



First off,  i do go to a gurdwara with chairs, i don't really care what the comitee thinks about chairs. Secondly, my brothers are dead from suidice. Thirdly, i eat meat and i could care less about if someone serves meat to me r not.



			
				punjabi004 said:
			
		

> ...By the way the person that decides after hundreds of years later we should sit on the floor is married to a girl his daughters age. If he wants to live by the 19 centry rules why doesn't he go from place to place on a horse or maybe a donkey why is he driving a car. Think about it man being a true sikh is not fighting for who sits where its about the respect you give the gurus the true 11 gurus not these idots that come today and decide where we should sit. Times have changed man. :}--}:



And i suppose you are a so-called "modern" sikh - you think  that cell phones are ok in temple and going out to party's is ok. if not, then who are you anyways?

And you say "times have changed" well indeed they have, for the worse. We see gurdwara's being set up for caste reasons, more and more sikhs cutting their hair, and many more not even following the basic principles of sikhi.

Yes time have changed, but this so-called modernising sikhi is destroying everything our guru's have taught us.

And i'm sure your going tio try and justify it... aren't you?


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## punjabi004 (May 11, 2006)

Bindy_Bains said:
			
		

> First off, i do go to a gurdwara with chairs, i don't really care what the comitee thinks about chairs. Secondly, my brothers are dead from suidice. Thirdly, i eat meat and i could care less about if someone serves meat to me r not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Yes I do think cell phones are OK but not where you do the prayers, and why do you think sikhi is getting less and less. Cutter people wanna sit on the ground and when people say lets have both where ever you wanna sit you guys don't wanna agree to that and that starts a fight and yes your right now sikhi is getting less because of stubborn people that just want everything thire way and thats to sit on the floor. You know where there were many of us in the gurdwaras there are now less and more and more gurdwara are becomeing emptier every sundays especially in small towns. You know the cutter people remind me of the Taliban of India So I guess its a good thing Kalistan did not rise because it would of been hell. I only pray Kalsa no kalistan no pakistan.


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## Lionchild (May 16, 2006)

punjabi004 said:
			
		

> Yes I do think cell phones are OK but not where you do the prayers, and why do you think sikhi is getting less and less. Cutter people wanna sit on the ground and when people say lets have both where ever you wanna sit you guys don't wanna agree to that and that starts a fight and yes your right now sikhi is getting less because of stubborn people that just want everything thire way and thats to sit on the floor. You know where there were many of us in the gurdwaras there are now less and more and more gurdwara are becomeing emptier every sundays especially in small towns. You know the cutter people remind me of the Taliban of India So I guess its a good thing Kalistan did not rise because it would of been hell. I only pray Kalsa no kalistan no pakistan and no other stan so shove that up your {censored}.:u):



it's quite interesting that this stuff is coming out of a user with the ek onkar symbol as their avator.... just an observation.


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## punjabi004 (May 16, 2006)

Holly *(& it took you 2 week to think of that??? HAHAHA hey buddy I'm t true sikh in the heart unlike some of you guys that 33774847&(*&*(&^(^*^^(((((((. Hmmm now tell me who observing what.





Moderator's Note: Please refrain from using inappropraite language on your posts. Thanks


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## Archived_member2 (May 16, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

It is a 'parampara' tradition to ask the visitor if he would like to wash him first, get fresh and accept Langar when he visits a Sadhu's hut.
People (Sangat) visiting a Gurudwara bring hunger with them or may get hunger after congregations.

I am not sure if Sangat is satisfied being offered the floor or chairs to quarrel. Sangat wants to feel fresh at Guru's Ghar. They may need food (Langar) to get satisfied.

The only change to ponder is that food was first served to Sangat before they joined the Guru's presence. Today many are sitting in congregation thinking of Langar time.

Gurbani says BUKy Bgiq n kIjY ]
"bhookhay bhagati na keejai." SGGS Ang 656-13
Do not worship when hungry.


Balbir Singh


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## punjabi004 (May 16, 2006)

Balbir Singh said:
			
		

> Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
> Dear all!
> 
> It is a 'parampara' tradition to ask the visitor if he would like to wash him first, get fresh and accept Langar when he visits a Sadhu's hut.
> ...


 
Very well said I agree with you my man


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## Jazz (May 17, 2006)

WGJKK WGJKF

Bhaji Balbir Singh ji, I appreciate your posting, although I have never learnt that Gur ka langar should be consumed before 'joining the congregation' in the main hall, it does seem logical, even if I have never seen this done anywhere (not in the UK, or in India).

We live and learn.

To the other posts, if nothing else, please observe tolerance for the diverse views on these forumns without 'losing your cool'.  We are all here to live and learn, let us do so.

My views on tables, chairs, and the floors, is 1) Primary is the point of prayer, 2) We are all equal, wherever we sit, and if some need to "show" that, then it does border onto other 'ritualistic' paths to the one true God exist also. 3) Should you really question where you are 'served' langar in the 'dwara' of the Guru?

Have we all lost the true meaning of Langar?


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## Humble_Gursevak (May 17, 2006)

*Sat Shri Akal Ji*

*Please use civil language. We are all adults and Gursikh we do not need to shout or call each other names. *

*Thank you *

*Guru Fateh Ji*


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (May 19, 2006)

In the 1935's famous and eminent sikhs like Bhai Khan Singh Nabha, Principal teja Singh, principal Harbhajan Singh, Prof Ganga singh,Dr Mann Singh Nirankari..etc etc even decided that "IF" some western Based Sikhs feel the need to have Chairs/Benches/Pews in side the Darbaar Sahib...there is no problem as long as the Parkash of SGGS is done at a HIGHER LEVEL.

The Only issue of Langgar is PANGAT..and that word means a Straight LINE/ORDERLY FASHION of seating arrangement...and a BENCH is equally "FAIR and EQUAL" as the floor. A Lower caste sitting on the BENCH next to a High caste Brahmin...feels same equality if they were sitting on the floor.  What happens to "equality" IF..the Brahmin is sitting on a clean MARBLE/GOLD PLATED FLOOR...while the Low caste is made to sit next to him on plain cement floor/kacha floor ?? IS the FLOOR "EQUAL" ??

The PRAMPARA thing holds no water...according to Prampara The GURUS used to Ride Horses to travel...why do we DISCARD this PRAMPARA and use busses, cars, cycles , trains, and airplanes ?? According to Prampara everyone was required to WASH DIRTY DUSTY FEET before entering a house...( everyone in those days had dusty dirty feet !!) but NOW we travel in Planes and Limos, with Carpets and wear expensive leather shoes socks...whose feet are dusty/dirty ??

In those days the PRampara was to BATHE in the SROVAR Provided as travelling was DUSTY/DIRTY...now a days everyone bathes at home in hot water shower etc before coming to Gurdawra in a limo/Taxi/Car....no one is Dusty/dirty..

PRAMPARA is just an excuse..to be discarded or used when we like..when the Jathedars have NO ANSWER..they fall back on "eh Prampara hai jee..???" what a load of bull.

AS Balbir Singh ji mentioned..During GURU JI's time it was the Prampara to CHHAK LANGGAR FIRST..before GURU JI DARSHAN.  Read how even EMPEROR AKBAR was ordered by Guru amardass Ji to go sit in PANGAT and chhak langgar first before he could have Darshan of Guru Ji.  WHO decided to do away with THIS PRAMPARA which even an Emperor of India couldnt BREAK ?? and WHY ?? Why havent the Jathedars said anything about this break with Prampara ?? is one prampara important and others not ??

The Sad Truth is that soem Caandian Sikhs wanted to Win the Local Gurdwara Elections at any cost...they found a like minded Jathedar to join in their scheme to make the Chairs tables party lose the elction..by declaring them tankhiyahs and agaisnt Akal Takhat...see what happened..The ENTIRE SIKH WORLD is DIVIDED...half sit on the floor and half sit on chairs...and the Chairs tables Lobby WON all the Gurdwara Elections...and the Sikhs declared tankhiyah dont give two hoots to the Jathedar who himself was UNCEREMONIOUSLY SACKED by his boss Badal...in 24 hours.

Such Paid jathedars come and go almost weekly...and their hukmanams have no value..as the incoming jathedar exempts the previous ones hukmanamas...

Jarnail Singh Gyani


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## Archived_member2 (May 19, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

People look at flowers and try to produce those on papers. Are the evolution process and result of both kinds of flowers the same?

Imitating God is not realizing HIM.

Some smart people swear to replicate God' creation better than the originals. Expert painters are rebirthing often. Rarely someone let God's Will blossom in him.

One does not need to imitate a 'Parampara' but realize the wisdom evaluating behind it.

Many people are concerned and live preferring bodily needs. Hunger is one of those. They may think of mental satisfaction at the second stage. One realizes spiritual hunger after the basic hunger of body and mind is calmed down.

Equality among beings is not reached by forcing them to sit in a straight row on a floor or chairs made of the same design and material. Equality among beings is realized, for example, watching God satisfying everybody's hunger without prejudicing. This awareness is the result of True Simran.

Blessed are those who enjoy being God's Tool.

Cursed are those who feel using God as a Tool.


Balbir Singh


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