# What Is The Reason For Covering One's Head In Gurdwara?



## sadhu (Mar 29, 2009)

I think it is absolutely uselss. 
I mean what is wrong with uncovered head. 
I dont think this should be a big issue.

What do you guys have to say about this?


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## spnadmin (Mar 29, 2009)

sadhu ji

A quick question for you. In all sincerity, if one does not go to gurdwara, what difference does it make whether heads are covered or not ????????


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Mar 30, 2009)

Why would a person who doesnt believe in the SGGS as "GURU" be doing in a  Gurdwara ? anyway.
IF he/she is just a "visitor"....then follow the time old adage..When in ROME..do as the Romans do.
Its up to SIKHS who believe in the SGGS as GURU..worthy of RESPECT... to Leave their shoes outside....to cover their heads... do matha tek....be  properly seated in sangat...to listen to katha/kirtan in silence....until and unless we decide..otherwise....its wise to follow the rule...whether "useless" or not is not up to "visitors".
No one may enter a Gurdwara Darbaar..with shoes ON...headcover.. OFF..remain standing/loafing about in sangat....etc etc etc...Gurdwara PROTOCOL is established for a reason.period.Only the SANGAT can change it.:happy::welcome:


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## Amarpal (Mar 30, 2009)

Dear Member,

It is in our (sikh) culture to cover our head in the presence of those we revere - our elders and evolved individuals, it is our tradition. We do the same in the presence of Siri Guru Granth Sahib. When we do this a feeling of reverence dawns on us. this is our training from the childhood. We are trained to go in front of individuals for whom we have great respect with head covered. This linkage between, with covered head, due to our training, naturally brings in the feeling of reverence. The covered head is the input, the functioning brain provides the process, and the resulting mind, with a feeling of reverence is the output.

Such symbolic acts condition the brain and tells it that we are entering a no nonsense environment, were the entity present in the form of spiritual knowledge contained in Siri guru granth Sahib, is much, much above all of us, put together. 

All those present in Gurdwara also do the same, the visul inputs that the brain gets by seeing the sangat, reinforces the already conditioned brain in the same direction. Further the Kirtan or reading from Siri Guru Granth Sahib provides another reinforcing input to the brain which tells that the environment here is special i.e. conducive for progressive spiritual awakening.

All the above, helps the brain the create a calm mind, with zero mental resistance for learning the spiritual teachings from Shabd Guru.

Covering the head in Gurdwara is one of the many elements, mentioned above, that prepare our brain for spiritual learning. 

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh


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## sadhu (Mar 31, 2009)

gyani ji



> Gurdwara PROTOCOL is established for a reason


 
And what exactly is the reason? 

You explained me that its good to obey the rules,and that is okay with me. But i was asking about the reason behind these rules. Espessially "covering the head one".

As removing shoes is good thing, it keeps the place clean. 
But what is up with covering the head???
Is there any spiritual benefit behind this?
if not
then what is the point in it?


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## kiram (Mar 31, 2009)

Sadhu ji,

Gyani ji & Amarpal ji have answered your queries very beautifully... 
The least we can do is cover our heads ji... You never know when you meet Guru Ji !!


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## sadhu (Mar 31, 2009)

amarpal ji



> It is in our (Sikh) culture to cover our head in the presence of those we revere - our elders and evolved individuals, it is our tradition.


 
Yea i know, it is your tradition, but i am asking about the reason behind this.




> The covered head is the input, the functioning brain provides the process, and the resulting mind, with a feeling of reverence is the output.


Nice, so people are made to cover their heads, so that a feeling of reverence comes into their minds. 
Yea i can see that, because the deep respect does not arises otherwise. It seems that just a darshan of the granth cannot create such an effect. It seems that The granth is not enough to bring such a respect in the people for it. So the brains of the people have to be conditioned, according to the head covering tradition to make them respect the granth. Because otherwise it is hard to make people bow down in front of it. As deep down everyone knows that it is just a book.


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## sadhu (Mar 31, 2009)

aad ji



> if one does not go to gurdwara, what difference does it make whether heads are covered or not ????????


 
Yep, and it does not make any difference even if one goes. 
I have heard some people saying that sikhism does not have any non-sense rules, or any foolish rituals. But dont you think covering the head has nothing to do with god, or with spirituality, but still sikhs are carrying this on!
This is a useless ritual. Infact all rituals are useless as far as spirituality is concerned.

Sikhs say that idol worship is prohibited by the gurus, and still they go on worshipping the book. Still they think that they have to keep the book as if it is a human being and they do "chaur" over it, or as if it is a god. Still they feel that they should cover their heads when they come in front of this book, in order to pay respect. Still they feel that around the book their is something godly, and away from it, is just normal world. So they just cover their heads when in front of the book, and uncover as soon as they are away. 

What if a someone is sitting on the boundary wall of gurdwara?
Should he cover half of his head? because half of his head is in the so called spiritual land, and half of his head is in the world. 
What about the birds, who are just flying around in the gurdwara? they should cover their heads too! And infact they are naked. First they should wear some clothes and then cover their heads, before taking a flight around gurdwara because it is a "no- nonsense" area.
What about the fishes in the sarovar? they too are naked, forget about covering their heads. SGPC should first of all get some clothes for the fishes, before letting them into the sarovar. 

And you say that it is a "sin" to enter a gurdwara with the head uncovered!
That somehow it is blasphemy, if we go without covering our heads. 
Then according to you the whole nature is disrespecting god. The birds, the trees, the animals, the plants all of them are naked, forget about covering their heads. Then according to you a newly born child too is a disrespect to god, because a child comes out of the mother's womb absolutely naked. And forget about any turban on his head. 

And if the whole nature seems a disrespect to god, then their something utterly stupid in this tradition. Then it should be simply dropped, as it is a non sense rule, and it is utterly stupid to believe that god is disrespected, if we uncover our heads in gurudwara.


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## Amarpal (Mar 31, 2009)

Dear Member sadhu Ji,

You said in the post. 'As deep down everyone knows that it is just a book.' 

The word 'everyone' used by you needs to be qualified - it refers to the group of persons who are ignorant about 'Sikhi'; for them it is just a book. 

For us i.e. Sikhs it is a Siri Guru Granth Sahib, which contains the knowledge that puts us on the path of spirituality. This difference in perception is substantial.

It is similar to non-belivers who will say that the Idea of God is only a belief which is a myth.

To the belivers it is notjust a belief but a firm conviction that God 'IS'. 

I am here on this site to contribute, which I have done. I do enter into arguments. I am not here to attempt changing any person's views. 

With love and respect of all.

Amarpal Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Mar 31, 2009)

Sadhu Ji..
Is that why the Naked Sadhus..Nangeh sadhus go about sans clothing....and dirty/filthy as .... ?
Do you go about naked to respect God ?? IF you do then you are welcome to attend the Gurdwara in my locality...i can assure you you will be an attraction...and I will defend your right.


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## spnadmin (Mar 31, 2009)

sadhu ji

The arguments have been made in another thread regarding Sikhism's belief that Gurbani is Guru. To persist in this argument speaks to a desire to continue to upset people. *You are breaking a forum rulre -- you may not undermine or show disrespect for Sikhism. Pure and simple, nothing more and nothing less. *

Continued arguments about covering one's head fall into the category of trolling since you are continuing this dialog in spite of/or perhaps because of the negative effect it is having after all explanations possible have been given.

Please discontinue this line of discussion. *This is a warning and an infraction or more will follow.

Reminder:

**Whilst SPN encourages positive interfaith dialogue and exercises in comparative religion, we do not accept direct or indirect attacks on the individuality of Sikhism. Any posts deemed to be doing so will be removed from the forum without notice.

The Guru Granth Sahib is the ultimate authority of the Sikhs. Any abuse or disrespect towards it in any form – directly or implied, will not be tolerated. Ridicule of the Sikh Religion, Sikh Scriptures, 5Ks or of the Khalsa will not be allowed and removed from forums without notice.

Comparative religious discussions can be educational, but ridiculing other faiths or excessive criticism of their beliefs is not constructive and it is not allowed on SPN. We need to be tolerant of our differences and accept people for what they are instead of being critical of their beliefs. All allegations must be backed up by verifiable references from neutral sources.

Posts looking for converts to Deras, Sects, other faiths, religions, etc; posts that preach their philosophies, promote their URLs etc; and posts that push one-sided political agendas will be edited or deleted. Messages affecting Sikhs in religious, cultural or other matters are welcome. Forum Leaders reserve the right to disallow other types of messages. Do not propagate the views or arguments of any non-member or suspended member. Repeated forwarding of controversial views on the same subject will be viewed as a serious breach of SPN Guidelines.
*


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## tony (Mar 31, 2009)

Dear Sadhu ji



i have spoken out many times about things that I dont think bring spirituality and have learnt from the forum that if you dont wish to do it then dont, so if you do not think that going to the Gudwara and covering your head is nessercery then dont go, I have only been to Gudwara a few times and found that even without speaking panjabi or having any translation I still get a boost, I have no problem with bowing before a book as you call it, whilst it may be just a binder containing pages its what on the pages the message it contains that i bow down to, My advise is ignore what you see and enjoy what you feel, Close your eyes and listen to what is being said and within minutes you'll not even notice whats on your head. A small price for great experience
Tony


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## rooh (Mar 31, 2009)

As for inculcating respect by covering your head. Respect should come from within and should be reflected in one's daily actions, not just by a covering. Its a pity that most Sikhs aren't so rigid about really respecting the message of the Gurus.


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## sadhu (Mar 31, 2009)

gyani ji



> Do you go about naked to respect God ?? IF you do then you are welcome to attend the Gurdwara in my locality...i can assure you you will be an attraction...and I will defend your right.


 
I will certainly come naked one day naked. And i dont mind if i am an attraction. But see, the people in the gurdwara will be attracted to me, a "naked man" instead of concentrating on the guru. Just a "naked man" can attract them, even when they are sitting in the gurdwara! And not a woman, a "man" can attract them, can amuse them, even when they are sitting in front of their guru! 
*Why so much attraction in nakedness?  *


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## spnadmin (Mar 31, 2009)

Please explain the connection you are making sadhu ji?


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## Archived_member7 (Mar 31, 2009)

Sadhu ji ..while arguing respect the other person..here none of us are yor enemies ..and you can argue with yor Sikh brothers freely for this ..have u been to a dargah ..there people cover their head too...would you be able to argue with them ??? 

when we go to a hindu temple we bow and seek the parshaad with the right hand ..will you argue with the Pujari ji why the right when both hands belong to Akaal Purakh Parmatma ?

will you argue with them that you want to wear your footwear in since it was this very Parmatma who gave humans the power to cover their feet and the idea to make footwear ??

why this and why that are good questions but if are using it show your Sikh brothers down then you are acting foolishly my friend ..


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## Tejwant Singh (Mar 31, 2009)

rajkhalsa said:


> Sadhu ji ..while arguing respect the other person..here none of us are yor enemies ..and you can argue with yor Sikh brothers freely for this ..have u been to a dargah ..there people cover their head too...would you be able to argue with them ???
> 
> when we go to a hindu temple we bow and seek the parshaad with the right hand ..will you argue with the Pujari ji why the right when both hands belong to Akaal Purakh Parmatma ?
> 
> ...


 
Raj Khalsa ji & others,

Guru Fateh.

It seems obvious and crystal clear that Sadhu is looking for help at SPN and he is desperate. 

He is an admitted liar, dishonest,contradictory and many more ill traits that he does not seem to get rid off. All these are his own admissions.

So the logical conclusion which can be drawn for his lurking in this forum is that he must have gone to lots of other forums but no one listened to him. He felt ignored which is quite apparent in his desperate whinings and belittlings. He wants our attention so we can help him. He is crying for a helping hand. 

Let us think aloud and brainstorm together as Sikhs to give him a helping hand so he can be saved from his own demons.

Let us help him sprout as a lotus out of this muck of his in which he has been wallowing for quite some time.

Tejwant Singh


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## Archived_member7 (Mar 31, 2009)

well..the prob with such people is they come here to argue and gain scores ...we need to make it clear ..Sikh Philosophy Network is not a debate platform ..it is a discussion forum...Sadhu ji there is no difference between you and that jihadi JavanMard who was kicked out ...

you know Sadhu ji ..your very existance on earth can be a big question to debate upon ...just because you want to act like ..ohh all of you are fools ..you cover heads ..i will go naked ...is this mature ??? you are talking like a communist...you know we describe them as people who will open their umbrellas here in India when it rains in China !


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## sadhu (Mar 31, 2009)

rajkhalsa ji



> have u been to a dargah ..there people cover their head too...would you be able to argue with them ???
> 
> when we go to a hindu temple we bow and seek the parshaad with the right hand ..will you argue with the Pujari ji why the right when both hands belong to Akaal Purakh Parmatma ?
> 
> will you argue with them that you want to wear your footwear in since it was this very Parmatma who gave humans the power to cover their feet and the idea to make footwear ??


 
Exactly, everyone should question these traditions, everyone should question these rituals. Because as soon as you question you will be surprised, that nobody knows the answers. Everyone is just drifting along these rituals without thinking. We just keep on performing these rituals unconsciously. 

I asked a friend of mine, i said "why do you cover your head while entering gurdwara?"
He said "i just do it, because everyone else does and it is a rule".
I said "so what is the reason behind this rule?"
He said "i dont know, and i havent thought about this before". 

Even in this forum, people are telling me to follow the rule, instead of explaining the reason behind it. 
Amarpal ji tried well in his post, his post was very scientific, with reasons, but in his post it seems as if the brains of the sikhs are forced and conditioned by covering their heads to respect people from their childhood. So when they go to the gurdwara the already conditioned brain starts respecting the granth automatically by seeing the covered heads. It seems like playing a trick with the brain. First condition it to respectfull attitude by covering the heads, then in the gurdwara it automatically starts respecting. It seems the respect for the granth is forced on the sikhs, by conditioning their brains from their very childhood. 
This according to me is very ugly and unfair with the children of the sikhs. 
As their brains are molded according to the traditions, before they can think rationally.


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## Archived_member7 (Mar 31, 2009)

look dont worry about the children of the Sikhs they are much happy and proud to be the children of the Khalsa...worry about your children..worry about other Hindu children ..who will ask you why you need to shave of your hair ...why are you a confused lot ? why you worship almost anything and everything and so on...

The fact is your 5000 years of your so called glorious past was not enough to protect you or wake u up from your slumber ...slaves of the Mughals and then of the British...and now America is your new master..


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## sadhu (Mar 31, 2009)

raj khalsa ji



> look dont worry about the children of the Sikhs they are much happy and proud to be the children of the Khalsa...worry about your children..worry about other Hindu children ..who will ask you why you need to shave of your hair ...why are you a confused lot ? why you worship almost anything and everything and so on...
> 
> The fact is your 5000 years of your so called glorious past was not enough to protect you or wake u up from your slumber ...slaves of the Mughals and then of the British...and now America is your new master..


 
First of all, Who told you that i am a hindu?
No i am not a hindu, and i am not a sikh either. 
I am not worried about your children, i am just pointing out the way you mold the minds of your innocent children. And force them to bow their heads in front of the book. I Have seen this in gurdwaras, many mothers, forcefully push the heads of their small children to bow down. Which is unfair again. They should be alowed to grow up, and then decide where they will bow their heads. Parents have no right to mold their innocent brains, according to what they want. And This happens in all religions.


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## Archived_member7 (Mar 31, 2009)

look man..dont worry what Sikh parents and children do...if your son tomorrow wants to pee in his pants while he is on your lap..will you let him do it ...bearing in mind about the so calld torture of zipping him off and rushing to the bathroom


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## sadhu (Mar 31, 2009)

rajkhalsa ji



> the children of the Sikhs they are much happy and proud to be the children of the Khalsa...


 
It does not seem that they are happy or proud about khalsa, as from what i have seen is that almost 90 percent of them dont know the meaning of the word "khalsa", they have haircuts, forget about "amrit". It seems that they are more interested in enjoying life, rather than feeling proud about sikh traditions. Your religious leaders go on debating on "sikhi prachar" where as your own youth is drifting away from your traditional values. 
They are drifting away, because most of your traditional values are illogical and baseless. And unless you guys drop these non sense rules, you cannot get your youth into your so called main stream sikhi.


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## Archived_member7 (Mar 31, 2009)

why the hell are you wasint time here man...go on some forum where you will find peace amongst your type ...where r u in india man ??


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## sadhu (Mar 31, 2009)

vaheguruseekr ji



> Raj Khalsa ji & others,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you very much tejwant ji.....
So if you are done with introducing me to your other friends, shall we start with this topic? or you still have something more to say about me or my ill traits?

Tell me what according to you is the reason for covering the head......


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## Archived_member7 (Mar 31, 2009)

belive me man...i m holding my horses just because i respect all other members ...and dont want trash here...


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## sadhu (Mar 31, 2009)

rajkhalsa ji

Dont worry, let your horses free. I dont mind, anything that you have to say about me.
And dont worry about the other members, they too are against me. 
So say what you want. Dont stop your self. 
I will apologies if someone questions you about your trash. 
Because the trash is comming out due to me, so i will apologies, if someone feels annoyed with your trash,

Yea now say what you have to.


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## Tejwant Singh (Mar 31, 2009)

sadhu said:


> vaheguruseekr ji
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Sadhu ji,

An admitted dishonest liar like you has no capacity to understand things although you pleaded me  for  my opinion through a personal message too.

When you stop lying and stop being dishonest then only you will be ready to understand things.

So I would not waste my time with someone like you.

As I said you do need help. You are crying for it. You are desperate.

Tejwant Singh.


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## sadhu (Mar 31, 2009)

vaheguruseekr ji

*Why cant you simply say that you dont know the reason?*
*As i can see that now all your logics have failed, all your critical thinking has suddenly vanished, and you have nothing to say, except your angry remarks on me.*
*What is so hard in saying "i dont know" ?*


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## Archived_member7 (Mar 31, 2009)

*MAn it is not his Logic and him not knowing the reason but it your Brains...What is hard in saying you are another islamic agent ??*


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## kds1980 (Mar 31, 2009)

sadhu said:


> rajkhalsa ji
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok so please tell us why Hindu youths are not so much into hinduism?


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## Tejwant Singh (Mar 31, 2009)

sadhu said:


> vaheguruseekr ji
> 
> *Why cant you simply say that you dont know the reason?*
> *As i can see that now all your logics have failed, all your critical thinking has suddenly vanished, and you have nothing to say, except your angry remarks on me.*
> *What is so hard in saying "i dont know" ?*


 
Sadhu ji,

From your *BOLD FONTS*, one can see you are angry and desperate and frothing. Thanks for helping me prove my point about you. I do appreciate that.

Tejwant Singh


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## kds1980 (Mar 31, 2009)

And BTW Mr.Sadhu

The youths that are most into their religion are muslims as they can go to any extent if someone insult mohammed or tell them islam is in danger so by your logic they are most rational people and their values are logical with base.Am I right?


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## sadhu (Mar 31, 2009)

rajkhalsa ji

You again got me wrong, i am not an islamic agent.
Come on. I dont confine myself to any religion. I dont have any particular religion.
I dont like organized groups, they can be religions, or political parties, or some unions, or anything that degrades the individuality. 
I love individuals, groups are ugly. 
And according to me islam is really the most stupid religion in the world. They have the most idiotic religious laws, and foolish practices.


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## Admin (Mar 31, 2009)

And the *winner* of this debate is...


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## Archived_member7 (Mar 31, 2009)

Sadhu ji ...then why are u acting like a muslim ...why not just a good human being ??


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## sadhu (Mar 31, 2009)

kds ji


> Ok so please tell us why Hindu youths are not so much into hinduism?


The same reason, ----the useless rituals, and stupid traditions. Infact hindus are way ahead than sikhs, when it comes to illogical traditional values. 



> The youths that are most into their religion are muslims as they can go to any extent if someone insult mohammed or tell them islam is in danger so by your logic they are most rational people and their values are logical with base.Am I right?


They are not into their religion, they are into fanatacism. Do you really feel that killing people in the name of the religion, is something spiritual? 
Infact the brains of the islamic kids are deeply conditioned, to believe their illogical trash. It has nothing to do with spirituality or logic. Their brains are tricked when they are small, to believe in their traditions. Same goes with other religions, but to some less extent. But parents mold the brains of their kids, which is ugly.


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## spnadmin (Mar 31, 2009)

What do the last 2 and 1/2 pages of commentary have to do with covering one's head in gurdwara? If I group them together as a new thread, I don't even know what the title of the new thread would be? 
*
Think the thread should be closed? If not, why not?*


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## sadhu (Mar 31, 2009)

aad ji

You can close the thread, but First let all of them give their opinions about covering the head. As till now, only one person has given some reasons, all others are just moving on the periphery of the topic. 

Rest is up to you, because even if the thread is drifting to some other area, people are still debating. You cannot just suddenly come up like a teacher and shut the whole thing.


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## Archived_member7 (Mar 31, 2009)

well she can ..Sadhu ji ...she has all the right to...she is the moderator ...man..belive me ..u need to learn to argue...non of us likes trash here


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## spnadmin (Mar 31, 2009)

sadhu ji

*Thank you for your editorial advice and opinion. The guidelines we follow -- if a thread is going downhill it is a candidate to be closed. You had 2 and 1/2 pages to bring your own comments back to the original point. *


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## kds1980 (Mar 31, 2009)

sadhu said:


> kds ji
> 
> The same reason, ----the useless rituals, and stupid traditions. Infact hindus are way ahead than sikhs, when it comes to illogical traditional values.



Good so Hindu's ,sikhs ,and all other religions are in illogical traditional values.Please enlighten us what is logical.because for many many people spirituality itself is illogical and material world itself is the truth.



> They are not into their religion, they are into fanatacism. Do you really feel that killing people in the name of the religion, is something spiritual?
> Infact the brains of the islamic kids are deeply conditioned, to believe their illogical trash. It has nothing to do with spirituality or logic. Their brains are tricked when they are small, to believe in their traditions. Same goes with other religions, but to some less extent. But parents mold the brains of their kids, which is ugly.



No where I said that killing people is spiritual neither majority of muslims do.And yes they do practice fanaticism but apart from it they also read their Namaz regularly which is the 
spirituality in their religion.But according to you illogical traditions is the main cause that youths are going away from religion then why hindu youths hardly know geeta ,sikh youths hardly read gurbani but still muslim youths regularly read namaz?


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## vsgrewal48895 (Mar 31, 2009)

*                                                                                 What Does 'Strong Character' Mean?* 


Respect for others according to the individual’s wisdom (ਬੁਧੀ);

*Respect for others is based on self-respect and is summed up:* Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. It is the value that makes the world a more decent, humble, and civilized place. Humility perceives one’s place in the world, not according to one’s own accomplishments but according to the intrinsic value of all individuals. Humility is an essential attitude for success in spiritual life.

ਸਰਮ ਖੰਡ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਰੂਪੁ॥

Saram Khand Kee BaaNee Roop.

In the realm of humility, the Word is beauty. -----Guru Nanak, Japji, AGGS, Page, 8-1

It is one of the foundation stone of Sikhism.

ਮਿਲਿਆ ਮਾਣੁ ਨਿਮਾਣਿਐ ਪਿਰਮ ਪਿਆਲਾ ਪੀਇ ਪਤੀਣੀ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੁਖ ਫਲੁ ਹੈ ਮਸਕੀਣੀ॥

_Milia MaaN NimaNia Piram Piala Pee-a Pateenee, Gurmukh Sukh Fal Hai MaskeeNee._

Only the humble get adorned with glory quaffing the cup of the love of God gets satiated. The saintly person perceive happiness only while practicing humility.-----Bhai Gurdas, Vaar 4, Pauri, 2

People show respect in many ways. They speak and act civilly—avoiding insults, cruel remarks and rude or crude language. They are courteous and considerate of others, including family members and friends, and care about their rights, beliefs and well-being. They treat others fairly as individuals, regardless of race, sex, age or ethnic group. They display tolerance for people who do not share their personal beliefs and likes—so long as those people do not harm others.

ਮਿਠਤ ਨੀਵੀ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਗੁਣ ਚੰਗਿਆਈਆ ਤਤੁ॥ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਨਿਵੈ ਆਪ ਕਉ ਪਰ ਕਉ ਨਿਵੈ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥

_Mithat Neevee Nanaka GouN Changiaa-eeaa Tatt, Sabh ko Nivai Aap Ka-o Par Ka-o Nivai Na Ko-ay._

Sweetness and humility, O Nanak, are the essence of virtue and goodness, but arrogance and ego makes everyone bows down to himself; no one bows down to another.-----Guru Nanak, Asa Di Var, AGGS, Page, 470-14

>Fullness of knowledge always and necessarily means some understanding of our ignorance that is always conducive to both humility and reverence.
>Plenty of people wish to become devout but no one wishes to be humble.

ਬੁਧ ਗਰੀਬੀ ਖਰਚੁ ਲੈਹ ਹਉਮੈ ਬਿਖ ਜਾਰਹੁ॥ ਸਾਚਾ ਹਟੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਸਉਦਾ ਵਖਰੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਾਪਾਰਹੁ ॥

_Budh Gareebee Kharch Lai-oh Haumai Bikh Jaaroh, Saachaa Hat Pooraa Sa-udaa Vakhar Naam Vaapaarahu._

Take wisdom and humility as your supplies, and burn away the poison of pride. True is that shop, and perfect the transaction; deal only in the merchandise of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 399-9

Research indicates that persons learn to respect others when they are treated with respect themselves. Criticism of a person, negative comments about him/her and failure to praise his/her achievements can lead the individual to be disrespectful to others. Treating others with respect pays large dividends both sides and to societies as a whole. Humility in showing respect, and for honoring elders goes a great way in the formation of character, which itself is a pre-requisite to growth in spirituality.

Self-respect means taking satisfaction in appropriate behavior and hard—won accomplishments. People with self-respect also respect others. They do not need to disparage others or build themselves up by bragging or exaggerating their abilities or talents. 

People who respect others have inner strength and are unwilling to let others use or manipulate them. They know that showing patience or tolerance does not mean allowing others to mistreat them. One should treat colleagues and others with whom we interact with respect, dignity, fairness and courtesy.

The way we treat others shows how we value them as people and as brothers and sisters. The need for respect is readily apparent when we look at the effect our actions have on behavior by posing the question, "What if everyone in society did this?"

*Conclusion;*

Be beautiful if you can, Wise if you want to... But be respectful-that is essential. Individuals are respectable only as they respect. Reputation is what the world thinks a individual is; character is what he/she really is. Respect a person, and he/she will do all the more.

ਗਰੀਬੀ ਗਦਾ ਹਮਾਰੀ॥ ਖੰਨਾ ਸਗਲ ਰੇਨ ਛਾਰੀ॥ ਇਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਕੋ ਨ ਟਿਕੈ ਵੇਕਾਰੀ॥ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਏਹ ਗਲ ਸਾਰੀ॥ 

_Gareebee Gadda Hamaree, Khanna Sagal Rayn Chaari, Iss Aagai Ko Na Tikai Vaykaaree,_
_Gur Pooray Ayh Gal Saaree._

Humility is my mace, and being the dust of the dust of all men’s feet is my two edged sword. These no evildoer can withstand. The perfect Guru has arranged this matter.-----Guru Arjan, Raag Sorath, AGGS, Page, 628-13

Virinder S. Grewal
Williamston, MI


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## vsgrewal48895 (Mar 31, 2009)

Dear All,

*Q. Can God/Guru be disrespected by any one or by not covering the head?*

*A. No- Bot God is omnipresent in the Higher Self of the individual veiled by lower self, which is Haoumai. Removal it with humility one can have a vision of It.*

Guru Nanak in Raag Asa and Kabir in Raag Gauri answer;

ਜੇ ਸਭਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਕੈ ਆਖਣ ਪਾਹਿ ॥ ਵਡਾ ਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਘਾਟਿ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ 

_Je sabẖ mil kai ākẖaṇ pāhi. vadā na hovai gẖāt na jā▫e._

Even if they all meet together and recount the Naam, Akal Purkh or Guru would not be made any greater or lesser. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 9,-18 & 349-9

ਨਾ ਓਹੁ ਬਢੈ ਨ ਘਟਤਾ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਅਕੁਲ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਏਕੈ ਭਾਇ ॥

Nā oh badẖai na gẖatṯā jā¬ė, Akul niranjan ėkai bẖā¬ė. 

God does not increase or decrease, and is unknowable and immaculate; It does not change. -----Kabir, Raag Gauri Thiti, AGGS, Page, 343

*The only way one can disrespect God/Guru is by not following the instruction inscribed in to become a better human (Gurmukh) and carry on the life as spiritually ignorant.*

ਗਿਆਨ ਹੀਣੰ ਅਗਿਆਨ ਪੂਜਾ॥ ਔਧ ਵਰਤਾਵਾ ਭਾਉ ਦੂਜਾ ॥ 

_Gi¬ān hīṇaŉ agi¬ān pūjā. Anḏẖ varṯāvā bẖā¬o ḏūjā._

With out spiritual wisdom, the people worship ignorance. They grope in the darkness, in the love of duality. -----Guru Nanak, Sloke Vaaran To Vadheek, AGGS, Page, 1412-4

_On The other hand respecting others feelings are a sign of character, which is a perquisite to progress in spirituality;_

Respect for others is based on self-respect and is summed up: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. It is the value that makes the world a more decent, humble, and civilized place. Humility perceives one’s place in the world, not according to one’s own accomplishments but according to the intrinsic value of all individuals. Humility is an essential attitude for success in spiritual life.

ਸਰਮ ਖੰਡ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਰੂਪੁ॥

_Saram Khand Kee BaaNee Roop._

In the realm of humility, the Word is beauty. -----Guru Nanak, Japji, AGGS, Page, 8-1 

It is one of the foundation stone of Sikhism.

ਮਿਲਿਆ ਮਾਣੁ ਨਿਮਾਣਿਐ ਪਿਰਮ ਪਿਆਲਾ ਪੀਇ ਪਤੀਣੀ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੁਖ ਫਲੁ ਹੈ ਮਸਕੀਣੀ॥

_Milia MaaN NimaNia Piram Piala Pee-a Pateenee, Gurmukh Sukh Fal Hai MaskeeNee._

Only the humble get adorned with glory quaffing the cup of the love of God gets satiated. The saintly person perceive happiness only while practicing humility-----Bhai Gurdas, Vaar 4, Pauri, 2

People show respect in many ways. They speak and act civilly—avoiding insults, cruel remarks and rude or crude language. They are courteous and considerate of others, including family members and friends, and care about their rights, beliefs and well-being. They treat others fairly as individuals, regardless of race, sex, age or ethnic group. They display tolerance for people who do not share their personal beliefs and likes—so long as those people do not harm others.

ਮਿਠਤ ਨੀਵੀ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਗੁਣ ਚੰਗਿਆਈਆ ਤਤੁ॥ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਨਿਵੈ ਆਪ ਕਉ ਪਰ ਕਉ ਨਿਵੈ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥

_Mithat Neevee Nanaka GouN Changiaa-eeaa Tatt, Sabh ko Nivai Aap Ka-o Par Ka-o Nivai Na Ko-ay_.

Sweetness and humility, O Nanak, are the essence of virtue and goodness, but arrogance and ego makes everyone bows down to himself; no one bows down to another.-----Guru Nanak, Asa Di Var, AGGS, Page, 470-14

>Fullness of knowledge always and necessarily means some understanding of our ignorance that is always conducive to both humility and reverence.

>Plenty of people wish to become devout but no one wishes to be humble.

ਬੁਧ ਗਰੀਬੀ ਖਰਚੁ ਲੈਹ ਹਉਮੈ ਬਿਖ ਜਾਰਹੁ॥ ਸਾਚਾ ਹਟੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਸਉਦਾ ਵਖਰੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਾਪਾਰਹੁ ॥

_Budh Gareebee Kharch Lai-oh Haumai Bikh Jaaroh, Saachaa Hat Pooraa Sa-udaa Vakhar Naam Vaapaarahu_.

Take wisdom and humility as your supplies, and burn away the poison of pride. True is that shop, and perfect the transaction; deal only in the merchandise of the Naam, the Name of the Akal Purkh. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 399-9

Research indicates that persons learn to respect others when they are treated with respect themselves. Criticism of a person, negative comments about him/her and failure to praise his/her achievements can lead the individual to be disrespectful to others. Treating others with respect pays large dividends both sides and to societies as a whole.

Humility in showing respect, and for honoring elders goes a great way in the formation of character, which itself is a pre-requisite to growth in spirituality.

Self-respect means taking satisfaction in appropriate behavior and hard—won accomplishments. People with self-respect also respect others. They do not need to disparage others or build themselves up by bragging or exaggerating their abilities or talents. 

People who respect others have inner strength and are unwilling to let others use or manipulate them. They know that showing patience or tolerance does not mean allowing others to mistreat them. One should treat colleagues and others with whom we interact with respect, dignity, fairness and courtesy.

The way we treat others shows how we value them as people and as brothers and sisters. The need for respect is readily apparent when we look at the effect our actions have on behavior by posing the question, "What if everyone in society did this?"

*Conclusion;*

Be beautiful if you can, Wise if you want to... But be respectful-that is essential. Individuals are respectable only as they respect. Reputation is what the world thinks a individual is; character is what he/she really is. Respect a person, and he/she will do all the more.

ਗਰੀਬੀ ਗਦਾ ਹਮਾਰੀ॥ ਖੰਨਾ ਸਗਲ ਰੇਨ ਛਾਰੀ॥ ਇਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਕੋ ਨ ਟਿਕੈ ਵੇਕਾਰੀ॥ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਏਹ ਗਲ ਸਾਰੀ॥ 

_Gareebee Gadda Hamaree, Khanna Sagal Rayn Chaari, Iss Aagai Ko Na Tikai Vaykaaree,_
_Gur Pooray Ayh Gal Saaree._

Humility is my mace, and being the dust of the dust of all men’s feet is my two edged sword. These no evildoer can withstand. The perfect Guru has arranged this matter.-----Guru Arjan, Raag Sorath, AGGS, Page, 628-13

Respectfully submitted.

Virinder S. Grewal
Williamston, MI


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## sadhu (Apr 1, 2009)

kds ji



> Please enlighten us what is logical


 
Read gurbani, and you will know what is logical.




> And yes they do practice fanaticism but apart from it they also read their Namaz regularly which is the spirituality in their religion.


It may be spiritual in "their religion", but they are infact fanatics. And fanatcism and spiritualism are two extremes, you can either be a fanatic person or you can be a spiritual person. Both are two diametrically opposite phenomenons. 

Aurangzeb read namaz every day regularly, you wont find a more so called religious person than him, but he was a fanatic. 
On the other hand Sai Mia Mir was spiritual person. Infact he was a living spirituality. 



> But according to you illogical traditions is the main cause that youths are going away from religion then why hindu youths hardly know geeta ,sikh youths hardly read gurbani but still muslim youths regularly read namaz?


Again muslims are not religious, if they are reading the quran regularly. Reading a quran or any other scripture regularly does not make you religious or spiritual.
Infact muslims are far away from religion. They are only good at one thing, they brain wash their kids really well, and mold them according to their traditions, but that does not makes them religious. So again ,muslim youth are away from the actual religion because of their foolish traditions. They may be performing their everyday rituals well, but dont confuse that with spirituality.


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## Randip Singh (Apr 1, 2009)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Why would a person who doesnt believe in the SGGS as "GURU" be doing in a  Gurdwara ? anyway.
> IF he/she is just a "visitor"....then follow the time old adage..When in ROME..do as the Romans do.
> Its up to SIKHS who believe in the SGGS as GURU..worthy of RESPECT... to Leave their shoes outside....to cover their heads... do matha tek....be  properly seated in sangat...to listen to katha/kirtan in silence....until and unless we decide..otherwise....its wise to follow the rule...whether "useless" or not is not up to "visitors".
> No one may enter a Gurdwara Darbaar..with shoes ON...headcover.. OFF..remain standing/loafing about in sangat....etc etc etc...Gurdwara PROTOCOL is established for a reason.period.Only the SANGAT can change it.:happy::welcome:



I firmly believe that covering head taking shoes off has evolved through practicality.

People would come into the Gurudwara from the fields, probably sweating and dirty, so to keep you hair covered and out of the way would probably be practical. It would also soak up sweat and stop it from dripping.

As for shoes, again to do with  hygiene, hence why people are encouraged to wash their feet.

I think nowadays this process before going into a Gurdwara encourages uniformity. Doesn't matter if you are wearing £1000 shoes, or have a £50 haircut. Your purpose in the Gurudwara is not to show off but be one with everyone else and do as they do.


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## Hardip Singh (Apr 1, 2009)

Sometime their are no scientific reasons for a beliver's act. Gurudwara is a scarced place where we are going to attend to things in the Holy presence of Guru sahib. Remember, since the olden periods whenever one has to attend to the King or the nobles, they were supossed to cover their head as mark of respect to them . For us, Guru sahib is supreme and hence the act.

I will like to recomend a good book regarding this. It's name is 'Kesh or Keski' by AKJ. Author had given enough good reasons for this act of us.

Guru fateh.


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## tony (Apr 1, 2009)

the reason for covering ones hair in the first place would have been to stop the spread of head lice, Long hair mixed with large groups equals epidemic. Seems pretty Logical to cover ones hair for a Sikh as there is a lot of emphasis on hygiene. I haven't been a Sikh for very long so I wasn't conditioned, my mind wasn't moulded as a child, I bow my head in front of any person I meet so I have no problem with bowing in front of the Living Sikh Guru ji the SGGS, the materials might not be a live but the message is. btw Groups are made up of like minded individuals, It is this like mindedness that allows us to call people our friends, without it we would all be enemies of each other. You say you like individuals then you must also agree that individuals have the right to do as they please, in which case please respect the rights of each and every individual Sikh to cover their heads and bow to what they believe in, No body is forcing any one to cover their heads or grabbing them by the neck to bow down its a personal choice we make out of respect for what we believe in. I have not met one Sikh who has been forced to follow Sikhism, and not one who believes bowing and covering their heads will make them more spiritual, only more humble 
Tony


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 1, 2009)

randip singh said:


> I firmly believe that covering head taking shoes off has evolved through practicality.
> 
> People would come into the Gurudwara from the fields, probably sweating and dirty, so to keep you hair covered and out of the way would probably be practical. It would also soak up sweat and stop it from dripping.
> 
> ...



Could be...or not ??
anyway Sikhism is a practical way of life....so everything has to be practical.
Christians go to Church on Sunday..and they dress in their very best suits..and they REMOVE their hats in church. as  a mark of RESPECT.....thats their way...while Eastern people COVER their heads as a mark of respect. Westerners have never removed shoes..not in the house..not in the church...Easterners always remove their shoes...in the home..in the temple/mosque/gurdwara..even Gurdwara langgar halls ..and now a days in Malaysia..even in  some Govt Offices/many semi-govt offices etc shoes are left at the door !!

SWEAT...in the Punjab rural areas..India as wella s Pakistan..a Parna is usually carried by everyone..wrapped on the ehad..used as  Master Wipe All...even those whose hair is short wrap the parna on the head....the rest of the body also sweats...so rather incorrect to single out the "head/long hair only....wouldnt the arm pits smell ?/ so whats the solution ?? anyway its not that people stream to the Gurdawra straight from the field..all sweaty and wet ?? Why ?/ whats the hurry ? cant they go home for a wash ?? I think they do go home and wash..and then come to Gurdawra...naturally.
Gurdawars have SAROVARS...facilities to wash the feet automatically at the entrances....and Muslims also wash at the mosques..its Eastern way....Malaysian Gurdawras have NO Sarovars and NO feet washers..just normal bath/toilets..because alsmost everyone comes from home bathed and shampooed and arrives in private transport...no sweat..no dirt..nothing. So no sarovars/no feet washers..needed...so none provided..we have evolved accordingly...natural behaviour.

Its just custom...and customs develop naturally..nothing more nothing less..social behaviour..social norms...what is good for the goose may not be good for the gander...


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## spnadmin (Apr 1, 2009)

Still some Sikhs do not go kompletely barefoot in gurdwara and they wear sox. That is some testimony to how flexible and willing to adapt or avoid small irritations -- keeping the eye on the important things.


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## Tejwant Singh (Apr 1, 2009)

sadhu said:


> I think it is absolutely uselss.
> I mean what is wrong with uncovered head.
> I dont think this should be a big issue.
> 
> What do you guys have to say about this?


 
Let us try to answer the following question:

What can one learn,interact or teach with the above statement and  fromthe title of the thread? 

If the  starter of this thread had come with his research about other religions like Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox Christians, Islam, parts of Hinduism and Sikhism and why all the above religions cover their heads and if he had given the reasons by researching each and every religion then we could have had a great discussion where all could have learnt something.

The fact is that is not the intention of the forum member, Sadhu. We have seen it from his other threads.

It is sad to notice that some people come here not to learn but to provoke, belittle,insult. As Sikhs are the students who seek the truth where as people like Sadhu are the hooligans of spirituality who want nothing to do with truth but to a pick a fight with  anyone who is seeking internal solace.

He is not here to  learn or to share  how to breed awareness, realisation, understanding which breeds in acceptance but he is here to show how angry and empty he is within, which is sad. If his agenda had been to learn and teach then the objective and the goal of this wonderful forum had been fulfilled but unfortunately all his threads and posts proved to the contrary.

The proof as mentioned before is that he has admitted himself in his posts that he is dishonest, a liar. He loves to contradicts. He claims to hate groups in one post and in othr he admits of being part of one. He fails to undretsand that he was conceived via grouping and groping, no pun intended.

So here is a suggestions to the respected Moderartors and the Forum leaders.

If the thread is meaningless like this one, it should be removed immediately. One can how much time, bandwidith is wasted. I understand and do appreciate the openmindedness of this lovely forum but openmindedness means to have a forum where shut inner windows can be opened with the help of sadh sangat that visits this forum.

People who come to break the window panes should be given a chance or two which member Sadhu has been, rather he has been given multiple chances and if they still carry the sledge hammer to shatter someone's spiritual doorway then something has to be done because it does not only shatter one doorway but the whole harmony and  the goal of SIKHI which is to find,breed love and goodness within so it can be shared with all, either claim to be inviduals, in groups and irrespective of their gender,hue,creed and faith.

I would leave what actions should be taken so that the concept of Sikhi as indicated by the 4 open doors of Harmander Sahib's remains intact, to the moderators and the forum leaders.

Tejwant Singh


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## Admin (Apr 1, 2009)

*Admin Note*: Tejwant ji has pretty much  summed up the issue. As the thread is going in circles, it is now closed!


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## Randip Singh (Apr 2, 2009)

Hardip Singh Vohra said:


> Sometime their are no scientific reasons for a beliver's act. Gurudwara is a scarced place where we are going to attend to things in the Holy presence of Guru sahib. Remember, since the olden periods whenever one has to attend to the King or the nobles, they were supossed to cover their head as mark of respect to them . For us, Guru sahib is supreme and hence the act.
> 
> I will like to recomend a good book regarding this. It's name is 'Kesh or Keski' by AKJ. Author had given enough good reasons for this act of us.
> 
> Guru fateh.



Although I agree with your comments, I am VERY sceptical of anything the AKJ writes. They say that Keski is  one of the 5 Kakkars.


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## Randip Singh (Apr 2, 2009)

Aman Singh said:


> *Admin Note*: Tejwant ji has pretty much  summed up the issue. As the thread is going in circles, it is now closed!



whoops didn't see this sorry.


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