# "Ain't" We Racist?



## Kanwaljit.Singh (Oct 15, 2011)

This was shared by one of my friends on FB whom am not very well acquainted with.







Isn't this sad that all the while fighting for the right to wear Turban and no discrimination against at work, this is how many of us think inside?

We can't go and change the world, if we as Sikhs collectively aren't free from this kind of prejudice.


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## kds1980 (Oct 15, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*

Unfortunately Racism is part of Human behaviour.Directly or indirectly we all make fun of people which are Dark,Short,fat or don't like the majority etc.When someone complain we say Relax it was just a joke , but when same treatment is given to us then we all start crying that it is racism


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## Seeker9 (Oct 15, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*

Very sad and very true but not uncommon. It takes many forms, race, skin colour, caste, nationality etc. Perpetuated in many ways including faith schools, family, culture etc. It's not going to go away in a hurry either. We can make a start though by changing ourselves and our children


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## Seeker9 (Oct 15, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*



kds1980 said:


> Unfortunately Racism is part of Human behaviour.Directly or indirectly we all make fun of people which are Dark,Short,fat or don't like the majority etc.When someone complain we say Relax it was just a joke , but when same treatment is given to us then we all start crying that it is racism



Just a thought..

Someone older than me said something a while back which roughly translates as it's bad enough that white people are racist with coloured people but when coloured people are racist with each other then that's 10x worse


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## kds1980 (Oct 15, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*



Seeker9 said:


> Just a thought..
> 
> Someone older than me said something a while back which roughly translates as it's bad enough that white people are racist with coloured people but when coloured people are racist with each other then that's 10x worse



What do you mean by colored people ? Indians still don't accept blacks and consider them as different race


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## Seeker9 (Oct 15, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*



kds1980 said:


> What do you mean by colored people ? Indians still don't accept blacks and consider them as different race



Not white. I think the comment was in the context of racism based on colour. Off course Africans are visibly different from Asians but that doesn't mean we have to be racist?


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## kds1980 (Oct 15, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*



Seeker9 said:


> Not white. I think the comment was in the context of racism based on colour. Off course Africans are visibly different from Asians but that doesn't mean we have to be racist?



Actually Indians have been racist with dark skinned people from centuries ,it is only whites that gave them dose them dose of their own medicine.

Once as a child a I asked why is it that most of rich or upper middle class families have fair skinned people while most of poor are dark skinned,my dad replied the rich( financially sound) people use to marry fair skinned girls as a result their children use to fairer than the poor people


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## ohhcuppycakee (Oct 15, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*

I don't understand why people post such rubbish. It's not funny in the least and it's just plain mean.  Why would you make fun of someone because of how they look...? It's of no fault of their own.


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## Kanwaljit.Singh (Oct 15, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*

True. Though this Singh shared what was posted by someone, as a link. Like a repost. But it still makes no sense what is so great about it?


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## Harry Haller (Oct 16, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*

I find nothing offensive about this photograph, it all depends on perception, in this photo I see a young african lad with the caption 'kiss me'

For someone to find this photo offensive, they would have to concede that the lad is unworthy of being kissed, why is he unworthy of being kissed? are you all saying he is ugly? I do not see anything ugly, just a young african lad. 

As for prejudice, once we see all sikh members, white, black, khatri, jatt,mona, keshdhari, amritdhari, sejhdhari without judging them, maybe we can give others a lesson in it too.


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## Seeker9 (Oct 16, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*



harry haller said:


> I find nothing offensive about this photograph, it all depends on perception, in this photo I see a young african lad with the caption 'kiss me'
> 
> For someone to find this photo offensive, they would have to concede that the lad is unworthy of being kissed, why is he unworthy of being kissed? are you all saying he is ugly? I do not see anything ugly, just a young african lad.
> 
> As for prejudice, once we see all sikh members, white, black, khatri, jatt,mona, keshdhari, amritdhari, sejhdhari without judging them, maybe we can give others a lesson in it too.




Dear Harry Ji

You are right it is about perception. In this case, I think we are talking about a joke....what is the intended joke here? I would suggest offence would be inferred by those who perceived that the happy chap was the subject of the joke specifically because of the way he looked

For example, would it still be a joke if it had George Clooney or Enrique Iglesias instead?

I think not

But excellent points about the extent of our own prejudices

Thanks


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 16, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*

What is HABSHI Halwa?

What does HABSHI mean?


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## Kanwaljit.Singh (Oct 16, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*

There is no different FB context and it is just a bad joke everyone is resharing.



> Obviously it is in poor taste but then again there is plenty of such stuff but it does not make it racist.


 
Maybe it is not racist, but it is always good to check by putting yourself in the other person's shoes.


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## Ambarsaria (Oct 16, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*



Tejwant Singh said:


> What is HABSHI Halwa?
> 
> What does HABSHI mean?


Tejwant Singh ji great article with information new for me,

http://www.colorq.org/MeltingPot/article.aspx?d=Asia&x=Habshi

      In old times, some East Africans came to India through the slave  trade.There is, however, no evidence of great numbers of African slaves  in India. Africans also visited India as free people - as merchants and  ambassadors from East African states.<sup>1</sup>    Africans are called _Habshi_ or _Habashi_ in India. _Habashi_ is the Arabic word for "Ethiopian". Numerous Habshis achieved political and military success in South Asia.<sup>2</sup>

A group of African freedmen converted to Islam and became known as the _Siddis_.   The Siddis were sailors and established kingdoms in Western India as  early as 1100 AD. They functioned as security forces for the Muslim  fleets in West India and were famed for their bravery as "guarantors of  safety on the Indian Ocean"  (in the words of Ibn Battuta).  Their  commanders were titled Admirals of the Mogul Empire and received an  annual salary of 300,000 rupees.<sup>3</sup>  The Siddis were active up to the end of the 19th century. 

In the 16th century,  there were many powerful Habshis in the political  scene of India.  Indian states employed foreign slaves as military  officers and government administrators. Chingiz Khan, the prime minister  to Nizam mul-Mulk Bani, King of Ahmadnagar in 1575, was of African  origin. After the king's death, the king's son Murtaza I led a  successful revolt with several Habshis against his mother's claim to  power. <sup>4</sup>   In 1595, during the reign of Murtaza II, the prime minister Abhangar Khan was also a Habshi.<sup>5</sup>

During the same period, Ambar, an Ethiopian slave, commanded Arab troops for the king of Bijapur<sup>6</sup>.   In 1590, Ambar  broke away from Bijapur and built an independent  mercenary army of over 1500 African, Arab and local Dakani men.  He  eventually joined the state of Ahmadnagar and later imprisoned King  Murtaza II, naming himself regent minister.  Ambar promoted minorities  of various ethnic groups to key positions and implemented financial,  educational and agricultural reforms.<sup>7</sup> Ferista, an  contemporary Arab historian, praised Ambar: "he appears to have been the  most enlightened financier of whom we read in Indian history."  Ambar  also organized a 60,000 horse army and successfully beat back the Moguls  for the next 20 years.  The Moguls could not conquer Dakan until after  his death.<sup>8</sup>

Many Habshi officers were prominent in the Muslim courts of Dakan and  the Mogul empire in the 17th century.  Today, the Habshi communities  have been diminished due to widespread intermarriage with other Muslims.<sup>9</sup>

Africans also found a place among the Baluchis, a large Indo-Iranian  ethnic group living in Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan and the Arab  Emirates. Baluchi ethnicity is defined more by language than by 'race',  which made it easy for them to absorb people from other ethnic groups,  including expatriate Africans. The Baluchis practice a number of  different trance rituals, one type of which (the _guati_) invokes  spirits of African origin and is performed to music with African  rhythmic structures. Some of the melodies used for the rituals were  composed by Baluchi musicians of African origin.<sup>10</sup>
*Notes:*



James de V. Allen,  Swahili Origins, p137
Omar Khalidi, "Research Note: The Case of the Habashis of the Dakan", African Presence in Early Asia, ed. Runoko Rashidi, p153
Runoko Rashidi, "Black Bondage in Asia", African Presence in Early Asia, ed. Runoko Rashidi, p139
Joseph E. Harris, "Malik Ambar: African Regent-Minister in India", African Presence in Early Asia, ed. Runoko Rashidi,  p147
Harris p148
Harris p148
Harris p148
Harris p151
Harris p154
"The Baluchi Ensemble of Karachi" album literature


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 16, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*



Ambarsaria said:


> Tejwant Singh ji great article with information new for me,
> 
> http://www.colorq.org/MeltingPot/article.aspx?d=Asia&x=Habshi
> 
> ...



Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the article and I am very well aware of the history and the origin of the word Habshi. But unfortunately the word Habshi is not used in a historical context but in a racist connotation, in the land where fair colour is deemed of some upper class, hence bleach and whitening creams are used more often than Micheal Jackson may have used them for his own discolouring.

Habshi is a very derogatory word used commonly in India, the way we gobble the halwa.

This was an intentional question for us to think how racism is ingrained in us, from the Apartheid of the Hindu caste system to the mithai named Habshi Halwa and we take this all in a nonchalant manner without giving it a second thought.

The often used phrase of disapproval of someone's looks is," You look like a Habshi".

It is shame and one more proof that we as  Sikhs have become the parrots of Gurbani rather than its practitioners.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Navdeep88 (Oct 17, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*

he looks like a nice person, at least he's smiling. maybe he's not beautiful in the conventional sense but he certainly doesn't look evil or like someone whos out to hurt people. 
on the contrary, some "beautiful" people cant even manage to smile. cant manage to be happy for others etc. 

no doubt about it, skin deep beauty does affect us. the perception that others have of us, affects us. but the validation of others only goes so far, and our perceptions of others can only get us so far. 
what happens inside usually does come across, in mannerisms, facial expressions, body language etc. so if a super beautiful person but is totally mean and jealous, pretty soon no one will want to kiss them. but if an "ugly" person treats others with kindness and compassion, and is helpful... then some good folks will want to share in thier company.


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## Harry Haller (Oct 17, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*

Navdeep88ji

I am sorry to disagree again, but if he does not look beautiful to you, then that is your perception of beauty. I am afraid to say he looks absolutely beautiful to me, he has the most beautiful skin, eyes, smile, this is not racism my friends, this is something else, something else we are all guilty of, including me, culturism. 

Culturism is the prejudice of discrimation on the basis of culture. It has nothing to do with race, or looks, where this young man comes from, he may well be chased by women day and night, in the same way that some cultures stretch necks, or have plates in their mouths, they may well all be sitting right now crowded round a computer looking at a singhni in turban and saying the same things, 

It is we who call roses beautiful and crows ugly, we have given these things status and names, the truth is all creation is beautiful, we just impose our own standards of what is, and what is not, on others with completely different standards and values.


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## Navdeep88 (Oct 17, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*

Uh Harry Ji,

I didn't say he wasn't beautiful. I said he wasn't conventionally beautiful, referring to what our accepted views of beauty are. The context the picture is in, the way bhai ji described its usage (to poke fun at another) means he is to be considered ugly by the popular standard. I did not agree with that, thats why the word ugly is in quotations, b/c i have no reason to think he is.


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## Harry Haller (Oct 17, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*

Some ugly things to look at that are actually beautiful, apologies Navdeep88ji, however it is society that says what is conventional or not, and also sets the standards, my interactions with 'society' are limited so you will forgive my inability to grasp the standards set, I still think he looks beautiful, conventionally or not peacesign
all these things are considered ugly, why? Society dictates that they are, yet if you look closely, you see that the only thing ugly is our own perception (mine included, especially the Fiat)


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## Navdeep88 (Oct 17, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*

no worries harry ji, i agree, he is beautiful in his own right... 

btw, the last picture is not ugly at all!


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## Ambarsaria (Oct 17, 2011)

*Re: Ain't we Racist?*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Z3i-j2rBxuI

Beauty really really really really ...............  is in the eye of the  beholder.  If one is not a beholder, one needs to do something else to  keep busy and move on.

Sat Sri Akal.


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