# Homosexuality



## bopadum (Aug 9, 2006)

First Point: I am neither for it or against it. Just let them be.

Now I know in the bible specifically states that man should not sleep with man or his brothers wife or his sister etc.

But do the Sikh Sciptures actually state anything of the kind? If so can someone please reference it. 

The only reason I bring this up is because I as a Sikh would not be against homosexuality as every one is one and created by one so it does not make them bad people.

Sikhism has a history of upholding human rights, it also has a reputation of evolving and being sensible. So it should not really be an issue, but on the net I saw a lot of sikh anti gay-ness (if thats even a word!).

If for exampe a Gay Sikh is Amritdhari surely he is closer to the path and doing a better job of it than I am?

Are people just interpretating the five vices to keep away from, for there own gains? As if it is to keep away from Lust the same can be said for hetrosexuals.

Is it like the whole meat issue? i.e. a lot of Sikhs think we shouldn't eat meat at all when we can as long as it is Chatka meat (don't comment on this bit - this is what I believe and you ain't gonna change that)

So in conclusion, All I want to know is - where is the reference in the scriptures to Sikhism being Anti Gay?


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## Sinister (Aug 9, 2006)

You want to discuss homosexuality?

The scientific community still hasnt figured out what defines/designates/differentiates the sexes (social or physiological??? which takes priority)
- this would be the better place to start with before we get into a debate on sexuality.

WARNING: dont make generalizations. Each person sexual orientation is intrinsically different.

Is homosexuality a result of a conscience choice?


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## bopadum (Aug 10, 2006)

I don't understand how this starts to answer my question. I am not disputing any sexuality or anything. read point one. What I want to know is: Is there an actual reference in the Guru Granth Sahib (like the Bible) guiding us to be Anti Gay?

I am not bothered how it is defined or what science says, if someone classes themselves as Gay where do the scriptures stand with that?


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## Sinister (Aug 10, 2006)

Hello again,
I to will try to stay neutral on this topic.

I dunno much of the gurbani's perspective on homosexuality.

I doubt its mentioned directly.

But Right fielders tend to generally make a contextual argument: 
Lust is considered an evil that should be avoided. homosexuality serves no purpose (it doesnt lead to the succession of the species) and is a lustfull act, hence it to is classified as "evil". 

The right wing argument also breaks down (please read on):
Sex is what it is: its a natural process that not only for reproduction....its also an expression.....without sounding to canny!

What about conventional sex between a husband and a wife? this serves no purpose, hence this should not be allowed as well.....sounds a little extreme:
your allowed to learn the technique of killing someone (gatka) yet your not allowed to make love to your wife?

But then again, Right wingers also consider conventional sex an "evil" lustfull act (because it serves no purpose) even if its between a married couple. Because the rules of lust apply to all. 


Homosexuality has not harmed anyone.....if anything its probably beneficial (especially in India...with the population crisis their).

But all this means nothing!
Because how can we call somone a homosexual if we ourselves dont fully know how to designate the sex of a given individual.

And is homosexuality a conscience decision?
If its an unconscious decision then the tables turn! it must be considered a "natural event".


Best that sikhs stay neutral on this one...to complicated 

Especially the people on the right who usually make judgement calls before thinking the subject through.


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## hps62 (Aug 11, 2006)

I guess that as a sexual conduct  is concerned their is no religous perrspectiv  to it.

If some one is  wired up in his head  to  love his own sex  Iguess youcant change  him by religous sermons.

In any  case such people are  rare in society for  they are  weeded  out  by Darwin's  law in that as they do not procreate and are therefor e condemned to extinction.

I guess it is a problem in West where the  reason is a free sexual availability for girls and boys.

They seem to have  had their heart  fill of heterosexuality and  want  to try some thing different.

It is not a issue  in the sex starved  country of middle east and India.

Guess muslim Burqa could be a immediate answer to this western problem  much to their  dislike.

For a long  run I guess our  intermidiate path of  Suit ane Kurta would be OK.


But knowing  the Western way of thinking ; They would  rather die  defending their fredom rather than get  trapped by a so called sense  of security by moderating their life style.

Till now  it is the  freedom wh ich is truimping.

So I guess let the  homosexual be Uncle Darwin look after them.

love

hps62


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