# Hukam Vs. "Tarot" Methods



## namjiwankaur (Sep 22, 2012)

Sat Nam

I love the Daily Hukam.  From what I understand, the Sri Guru Granth Sahib is opened to a random page and it becomes the Guru's message for the day.

Is it true that Sikhs also do this to get help with certain questions they have about things in their lives?  How is this done?  Is there a special prayer to say before or after or to reflect on the hukam after receiving it?

Do you think the Cyber Hukam are valid ways of doing this?

I also wonder if Sikhs believe this is a method of divining or something else?  I made the title of the thread "hukam" vs. "tarot" because many other methods exist where people use a holy book to commune with the Divine.  Many of these people would say they are doing the same thing Sikhs do with Hukam.  How do they differ?  

:blueturban:


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## BhagatSingh (Sep 23, 2012)

Cyber hukam lacks that communal aspect of Hukamnama. I think this is the most important part of the larger ritual, in which hukamnama is read out.

How do they use a holy book to commune with the divine?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 23, 2012)

The HUKM is not divining..its the Guru Speaking directly and each person who listens "interprets" accordingly...one who is sad at the passing of his dad..is comforted..one who just passed his exams is elated..one who is going for an  interview for a job is "confident..inspired"...The SHABAD is the SAME...the results on the sangat are different..


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## Kanwaljit.Singh (Sep 23, 2012)

It's like the phrase which makes happy sad or the sad happy.

THIS TOO SHALL PASS.

It brings balance to anyone in any state of mind.


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## namjiwankaur (Sep 23, 2012)

> Cyber hukam lacks that communal aspect of Hukamnama. I think this is the most important part of the larger ritual, in which hukamnama is read out.



Bhagat ji, could you tell me more about how hukam is used by individuals and also in community?

Thank you, brother.
Nam Jiwan


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## Ambarsaria (Sep 23, 2012)

namji{censored}aur said:


> Bhagat ji, could you tell me more about how hukam is used by individuals and also in community?
> 
> Thank you, brother.
> Nam Jiwan


Namji{censored}aur ji my thoughts and I am sure Bhagat Singh ji will chime in as well as you requested.

Hukam in Sikhism is a daily thought or message of the day (in reverence many will also call it as a directive to a Sikh) to learn from and work with.  It does not mean that previous day(s) Hukams have lapsed.  It is a technique to continuously and diligently improve self in actions each day and not just listen and dissect a Shabad/hymn.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 23, 2012)

and HUKM is certainly as far away from tarot etc as our Galaxy is from the Andromeda galaxy...trillion zillion light years away....the two words shouldnt even be on the same page...or book


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## namjiwankaur (Sep 23, 2012)

Gyani ji

Tarot is just a word and is only a deck of cards.  You define it by your own beliefs about it.

I know some say tarot can "predict the future".  I am suspicious of that, but if someone wants to believe they are reading about the future with a deck of cards, then so be it.

Sufi Book of Life is about the 99 Names of God and how to meditate with them.  The website has an "online oracle" feature which is meant to help people grow spiritually and to encourage a deeper understanding of the 99 Names of God.  

Here is the link for anyone interested: http://sufibookoflife.com/oracle.html

Another way to do this with the Sufi Book of Life is to open it up to a certain page.  Now you may see why I asked the question.  

I am curious to know how a Sikh would view opening up the Sufi Book of Life to a random page in order to reflect on that Divine Name.  Is it dangerous? Is it more like reading tarot cards or hukam?






Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> and HUKM is certainly as far away from tarot etc as our Galaxy is from the Andromeda galaxy...trillion zillion light years away....the two words shouldnt even be on the same page...or book


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 23, 2012)

namjiwan ji..

IF its about "REFLECTION"...then i guess theres a simialrity...becasue the HUKM is also meant to be relfected upon and  MORE IMPORTANTLY...._*ACTED UPON*_.


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## namjiwankaur (Sep 24, 2012)

Gyani ji

I know of people who use tarot cards this way. They pull a card in the morning, asking the Divine for guidance for the day.  There are many beautiful tarot decks that make this a very spiritual experience.  I have an angel deck by Doreen Virtue.  I've NEVER used them for divining (not that I care if someone chooses to use them that way; to each his own).  

I would pick a card at night and read what the angel card said (Doreen Virtue had a little booklet to go with it).  It was like a night prayer that reminded me I'm protected and surrounded by Divine Love.
gingerteakaur

Nam Jiwan




> IF its about "REFLECTION"...then i guess theres a simialrity...becasue the HUKM is also meant to be relfected upon and MORE IMPORTANTLY....ACTED UPON.


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## Rory (Sep 24, 2012)

I personally wouldn't see the value of tarot cards - their power has been "assigned" by pagans to various spirits etc., in my opinion it's not a respectful way to ask for guidance from God because I see no reason to believe that the deck was authored or inspired by God.

I am interested in this thread though; how would someone reconcile the Hukamnama with warnings against superstition?


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## namjiwankaur (Sep 24, 2012)

Rory ji

To each his own.  We are all on a unique path with the Divine journey.  What works for one doesn't work for another.  I personally think there is way too much discrimination aimed at pagans and wiccans.  Pagans and wiccans aren't much different than the rest of us; they are seekers also.

Would you mind sharing more about why you think its disrespectful to ask God to guide from  something authored or inspired by God?   

This reminds me of a cool thing I want to share.  Years and years ago, I was at work at the library and I was about to shelve a copy of a Conversations With God by Neal Donald Walsh and I opened it up to browse.  My eyes landed on a sentence. "This is not a coincidence."

People that know me know that God speaks to me with really surprising coincidences all the time.  

My question for you and others to consider.  How do we qualify which "holy books" are authored (or even inspired by) God?  Is Neil Donald Walsh authoring a book where God speaks to him?  How do we decide what is holy and what isn't?

Religions fight over whose books are God's Words and whose books aren't.  How do they know?  Usually by using "yours" and "mine", we forget God is "ours" or perhaps not even that.  *We are God's.* 

Nam Jiwan 




> I personally wouldn't see the value of tarot cards - their power has been "assigned" by pagans to various spirits etc., in my opinion it's not a respectful way to ask for guidance from God because I see no reason to believe that the deck was authored or inspired by God.


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## Luckysingh (Sep 25, 2012)

Well, I never thought that tarot cards can be used to help or try to get divine messages.

I always thought that they were just another medium used for predictions.

Whilst the hukamnama is not a such a prediction, but is inspiring and guiding for someone who may be looking for something or even hoping for a nice prediction.

There are too many people that take tarot very seriously. 
Therefore any comments on here are not going to discourage a single tarot user.

As I don't know too much about tarot, I have no reason to discourage or disapprove.
I mean if they can help restore or give faith in God in any way, then there is nothing wrong with that.

Choices have to be made in life and there come times when we favour certain choices over others. At these times, is where one needs some reassurance and faith that whatever choice comes, it will help to mould for further development.

If any medium can help instill this confidence and instill the fact that the divine will shall pave the way and that we shouldn't be worrying about such choices, then I can't disregard that medium either.

I don't see anything evil or wrong with tarot, but it's not my cup of tea!!


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 25, 2012)

Out of the 1429 Pages of SGGS maybe only 500++ get to be read as Hukmnamahs..
Out of nearly 30,000 shbads..only about 500 get SUNG as KIRTAN....rest are all left aside...
Ragis keep singing the same shabds...the Granthis keep reading the same hukmnamahs...perhaps a CYBER HUKM is the BEST...becasue a Computer is NOT LIMITED to page and book formation limitation...any shaabd form 1 to 1429 is up for getting chosen by a Computer...


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## namjiwankaur (Sep 25, 2012)

Sat Nam _/|\_

Your mind and heart is so open.  That is beautiful.  

Sikhism encourages defending the oppressed.  People who practice earth-centered religions have been oppressed for centuries.  

There was a time when the people of many places around the world were pagan.  Christians forced them to convert to Christianity until Christianity ruled the world.  Ever since then, pagans and wiccans have been misunderstood.  They are often called satanic, but satan comes from the Abrahamic traditions. Pagans don't believe in satan.  

I am very sensitive to the way peoples have been persecuted throughout history.  I think it why I think it is so noble in Sikhism that the kirpan represents not only defending oneself, but others against oppression. All my life, when I saw images of people in the Nazi concentration camps, I thought, "nothing like this could ever happen again.  It was one awful mistake."

But genocide is still practiced.  Homophobia is still forcing gays into closets and sometimes they are killed for it.  The media is presenting all Muslims as terrorists creating much misunderstanding.  Wiccans have suffered so much over the centuries.  The witch hunts were horrific.  How can someone accuse a Wiccan of being evil, but not consider it evil to burn them at the stake?

Only a few years ago did Arlington grant permission for grave stones to have the pentacle on it.  It took until the 21st century for pagans.  If one gives their live fighting for our country, we owe them that.

So whether its our cup of tea :sippingcoffeemunda: or not, we need to defend pagans as much as other oppressed people.

Blessings,
Nam Jiwan  



> Choices have to be made in life and there come times when we favour certain choices over others. At these times, is where one needs some reassurance and faith that whatever choice comes, it will help to mould for further development.
> 
> If any medium can help instill this confidence and instill the fact that the divine will shall pave the way and that we shouldn't be worrying about such choices, then I can't disregard that medium either.
> 
> I don't see anything evil or wrong with tarot, but it's not my cup of tea!!


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## Rory (Sep 25, 2012)

namji{censored}aur said:
			
		

> Would you mind sharing more about why you think its disrespectful to ask  God to guide from  something authored or inspired by God?


Nam-ji, this is just my opinion; the spiritual value of tarot is usually not assigned to God but to other deities/spirits. That doesn't sit with me because I personally believe that Waheguru is the only source of power in the universe; why ask for guidance from some spirit, or pray to Shiva or Krishna or Vishnu, when everything in the universe operates only on the power God gives it?

I differ from you also in the sense that I believe that (other than in exceptional cases), coincidence is just that; coincidence. I used to attribute things that happened as "signs" from God, but not anymore. I learnt that it is risky to do so. God has already paved my path, I choose to just follow it, dealing with the situations and choices that face me, while also giving thanks to God for the opportunities I'm given.

You are right, pagans (and all people, no matter which religion they pick, or if they pick no religion) deserve to be treated with dignity & humanity, and protected from oppression. 
I think it's important though, that Sikhs stick with what belongs to Sikhism; if Sikhi is what it is made out to be, Sikhs should need nothing more. 
Someone on here told me a proverb, "if you have your feet stood in two different boats, you're going to fall into the water". Sikhism provides us with all we need if we're willing to utilize it.


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## Harry Haller (Sep 26, 2012)

> i differ from you also in the sense that i believe that (other than in  exceptional cases), coincidence is just that; coincidence. I used to  attribute things that happened as "signs" from god, but not anymore. I  learnt that it is risky to do so. God has already paved my path, i  choose to just follow it, dealing with the situations and choices that  face me, while also giving thanks to god for the opportunities i'm  given.


0


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## Kanwaljit.Singh (Jan 24, 2016)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gursharan Singh


Was just thinking about my fav question - hukam. Guru granth sahib teaches us many many things, things as humans we should do (daya, daan, kirat, udham, etc) 

Udhham karendeya jeeh tu, kamawadeya sukh bhunch, dhiyandeya tun prabhu mil, Nanak utri chint

and avoid (tobacco, alcohol, etc).

ਪਾਨ ਸੁਪਾਰੀ ਖਾਤੀਆ ਮੁਖਿ ਬੀੜੀਆ ਲਾਈਆ ॥ 
ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਚੇਤਿਓ ਜਮਿ ਪਕੜਿ ਚਲਾਈਆ ॥੧੩॥
"Those people who eat and chew "Paan" (nicotine betel nuts), and smoke tobacco (meaning that they those who in indulge in intoxicants), and, do not contemplate or do Simran of Vaheguru - (the cycle of) Death will seize them and take them away (to become entangled in the cycle of reincarnation)." (Ang 726)

On doing what the Guru has asked to avoid to "fit" in this world, we suffer as per Hukam. 
ਕਬੀਰ ਦੀਨੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ਦੁਨੀ ਸਿਉ ਦੁਨੀ ਨ ਚਾਲੀ ਸਾਥਿ ॥
ਪਾਇ ਕੁਹਾੜਾ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਗਾਫਲਿ ਅਪੁਨੈ ਹਾਥਿ ॥੧੩॥

O Kabeer! a human loses his 'faith' for the sake of the world, but the world shall not go along with him in the end. (In this way) the idiot strikes their own foot with the axe by their own hand (meaning they are doing their own harm). ||13||
(Ang 1365)


Now, we have the Guru's hukam to follow. Then whats the Hukam we keep talking about when something happens, or the Bhaana? Some thoughts on how they're different.

Two things - 

1. Instructions from the Guru - Hukam. YOU  follow it, you are NOT made to follow it by akal purakh. Your own mehnat. And you suffer consequences if you don't. Drop the glass, it will break. Rules of nature. Nothing "magical". When baani says whats in you my hands, I think its talking about the rules - since we are too small to define what nature has manifested in itself. The truth.

2. Bhaana - something not in YOUR hands and has a certain and uncertain face. Certain - You followed/did not follow Hukam and faced consequences. Uncertain - Why is it not in your own hands? Because you live in the world, and there are actions of others around you, the nature, and things beyond your mind at a given time. The actions of others affect you, but YOU did not violate Hukam there! May be they did, that has lead to you getting affected, but its NOT something unknown Waheguru WANTED. Its all Hukam at the end - followed or not followed, leading to Bhaana. You being around them, near them, related to them is an uncertain (or unexplainable) part. And nature ,its laws etc, is to some extent in our hands - through our generations but its so vast in time and expanse that we cannot capture it. It may not be too, and thats also an uncertain component of bhaana. 

What do you think?

--
Gursharan Singh

ADMIN NOTE: EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED AS IT IS NOT SAFE INTERNET PRACTICE.


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## namritanevaeh (Apr 24, 2016)

namji{censored}aur said:


> Sat Nam _/|\_
> 
> Sikhism encourages defending the oppressed.  People who practice earth-centered religions have been oppressed for centuries.
> 
> There was a time when the people of many places around the world were pagan.  Christians forced them to convert to Christianity until Christianity ruled the world.  Ever since then, pagans and wiccans have been misunderstood.  They are often called satanic, but satan comes from the Abrahamic traditions. Pagans don't believe in satan.



Thank you for this namji{censored}aur. I really appreciate reading it.  and I totally agree.



> I am very sensitive to the way peoples have been persecuted throughout history.  I think it why I think it is so noble in Sikhism that the kirpan represents not only defending oneself, but others against oppression.  Wiccans have suffered so much over the centuries.  The witch hunts were horrific.  How can someone accuse a Wiccan of being evil, but not consider it evil to burn them at the stake?
> 
> So whether its our cup of tea :sippingcoffeemunda: or not, we need to defend pagans as much as other oppressed people.



I too like it and part of what I like in that is being able to tell Sikh people about how my background (Scottish and likely with a few pagans some hundreds of years ago ;-)) includes a sgian dubh, which means black knife. You see bagpipers wear them to cultural events still, though they aren't used commonly these days, mostly only when in full Scottish dress. But their purpose and meaning is very analogous to the kirpan, without the "religious twist". You are not supposed to take a sgian dubh out of its scabbard unless you are going to draw blood. The meaning of this is you only take it out to defend [yourself or someone else]. People are "superstitious" about how much bad luck it can bring to you to take it out if you are not going to draw blood to the extent that often if they want to "show off the blade" to someone else they are supposed to prick their own finger for a drop.

Scots largely lost a lot of their culture in the 1700's when wearing kilts and carrying weapons (like this knife) and playing bagpipes were outlawed for around 50 years, punishable by death. Luckily Sikhs haven't lost that right entirely with their turbans, Kirpans, tabla/vaja, etc after 1984. Yes there is oppression going on but Sikhs are not mostly being hanged for tying on a turban alone or playing the tabla. Thankfully.

Anyhow this is an interesting discussion, too bad I found it so late!


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