# Components Of Your Faith



## Navdeep88 (Jan 27, 2011)

Dear Members,

I am interested in your understanding of your faith. Particularly, how much of it stems from INTELLECT and how much from HEART because the interaction seems crucial. What is YOUR formula or process to build, sustain and honor your faith? 

Thank you.


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## findingmyway (Jan 31, 2011)

After reading SGGS my faith makes complete sense and inspires me to be a better person. Since I am a person who is ruled by my head rather than my heart, intellect plays a bigger role for me. My faith is my support. It is about the only thing I remain sure of and helps get me through the low points in my life.


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## Navdeep88 (Feb 1, 2011)

Thank you findingmyway ji,

I also usually rely on intellect... But its a funny thing, on the one hand its needed for self-discipline, to get through life etc, but sometimes backfires because the brain... talks, frets, worries, makes excuses non-stop! I think intellect is an excellent, absolutely necessary tool for faith.


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## Seeker9 (Feb 1, 2011)

Great question Navdeep88 Ji

I use intellect to translate and reflect on what I have learned 

I then have faith in that process!

In doing so....I am not confusing intellect with a faith in Science that it has all the answers to life's questions

Intellect is my "reasoning engine" to make sense of the world around me


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## JimRinX (Feb 1, 2011)

Interesting Question, Navdeep ji!
But then I'm always wrestling with it; as I'm something of a 'lay-polymath', with a far reaching knowledge of everything from relativity to quantum chromo dynamics, but I also had a kind of 'epiphany' - I left my Body behind, spoke to God, then returned - and, afterwards, there was a pronounced white streak in my hair that had not been there before.
Perhaps God made that happen _because _Hirm knew that that was the only way I'd ever be able to convince myself (as many Psychiatrists and Atheist Sceintist would also like to) that the Experience was REAL - rather than just some Halucination; some Lucid Dream; some misfiring of the neurons in my temporal and visual cortices - as Hirm knew that I would know that such things as the transmutation of matter (like removing the melanin protein {which colors the hair} from the colloidal keratin suspension {which hair is}, in order to turn it white, while simultaneously reprogramming the methylation groups in my hair folicules DNA, so that only that small bundle of hairs would continue to grow white for the rest of my days; as only "matter transmutation" - by Miracle, or impossible Star Trek Technology - could account for this happening) were still centuries in our future, if they're possible at all.
This is also why I think Sikhism is a True Belief; as I, too, have, "Walked - though I had no legs; Seen - though I had no eyes......"
Believe! I can assure you, no one snuck up behind me with a bottle of peroxide, while my body was lying on the grass, and my Spirit was traveling about the Local Group!


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## Adi Nanaki (Feb 1, 2011)

My faith begins with semi-waking and doing a morning blessing of all human facets, (ie may my eyes see only truth), requesting  that the Guru carry the blessing deeply to open the eyes of all his beloveds to truth. My cold shower includes ten squats front and back calling on each of the ten Gurus--total bliss! I do a full Nitnem Paath as a way of engaging with the Gurus each day. Jaap Sahib is done with Sat Kriya, where I powerfully chant Sat Nam to its rhythm and call on the 10 Gurus to wash the world. This task was given to me by Guru Gobind Singh when he placed a 3-D image of the world on my fingertips during this kriya five or so years ago, asking me to wash, rinse and wring it out. I relax with Tawv Prasad Swaya and Anand Sahib. Rehiras is recited with Z TVs broadcast of the evening Golden Temple program. My three evening meditations are used to call upon the Gurus to bring prosperity, blessings and healing to people in need and to all the world.  My day is winds down with Kirtan Sohila in bound lotus just before going to bed, where I call on the Gurus by breathing them into me to feel each of them in essence and be carried to their holy realm as I sleep. In living with the Gurus this way they have blessed with the gift of calling upon them to vastly come through and bless and heal others--a meditative Healing Ardas. 

Sat Nam! animatedkhanda1


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## lddgnz (Feb 1, 2011)

JimRinX said:


> Interesting Question, Navdeep ji!
> But then I'm always wrestling with it; as I'm something of a 'lay-polymath', with a far reaching knowledge of everything from relativity to quantum chromo dynamics, but I also had a kind of 'epiphany' - I left my Body behind, spoke to God, then returned - and, afterwards, there was a pronounced white streak in my hair that had not been there before.
> Perhaps God made that happen _because _Hirm knew that that was the only way I'd ever be able to convince myself (as many Psychiatrists and Atheist Sceintist would also like to) that the Experience was REAL - rather than just some Halucination; some Lucid Dream; some misfiring of the neurons in my temporal and visual cortices - as Hirm knew that I would know that such things as the transmutation of matter (like removing the melanin protein {which colors the hair} from the colloidal keratin suspension {which hair is}, in order to turn it white, while simultaneously reprogramming the methylation groups in my hair folicules DNA, so that only that small bundle of hairs would continue to grow white for the rest of my days; as only "matter transmutation" - by Miracle, or impossible Star Trek Technology - could account for this happening) were still centuries in our future, if they're possible at all.
> This is also why I think Sikhism is a True Belief; as I, too, have, "Walked - though I had no legs; Seen - though I had no eyes......"
> Believe! I can assure you, no one snuck up behind me with a bottle of peroxide, while my body was lying on the grass, and my Spirit was traveling about the Local Group!




No disrespect Jim but you couldn't have made it more complicated  peacesign


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## ZaraONE (Feb 1, 2011)

Dear Navdeep
Thanks for posing the question. 

Total unconditional Faith and surrendering to the Infinite Eternal Guru is the path that works well for myself and will work for humanity as a whole. 

Japji and Rehras are two musts for me it is the "energy connection"  to keep the light ON. During the day Gurbani random ang selections an excellent site at www.searchgurbani.com 

Intellect as in be vigilant, allow time to contemplate the "data" being presented to you via inner and outer intuitive nudging. Don't waste too much time analyzing just go with the flow and Trust ... the biggest lesson to learn is go with the flow because the Universal ONE has much bigger eyeballs than we little things and knows the best path to get you from A to B!

"Experience" is key, not blind faith and heresay. Then the knowledge of each journey must be shared to allow others to contemplate and see if it makes sense in their own journey. We all have unique gifts which we must put effort into activating in this lifetime, which will "reveal" our purpose and storyboard for this lifetime.

I have written a free e-book on my web site StarMinds Connecting the Dots at www.unitedstarminds.com and free information in the Evidence Room which you can read to see how Guru is communicating but we must all "tune into the right energy frequency" to understand the very subtle communication happening around us.

Enjoy and let me know if you have any further questions.

PS: Your ID is 88, I see this number often, look up ANG 88 and see Guru's message for you, everything is intelligent, everything.


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 1, 2011)

For me faith is normal transition between a mix of aspects.  The mix has changed over time and generally can vary event by event, day by day though most of the time with a baseline.

So I say,


So when I was born it was,
100% Heart, 0% Intellect:motherlylove:

So when I was 5 years old it was,

95% Heart, 5% Intellect:motherlylove:


So when I was 10 years old it was,

80% Heart, 20% Intellectwelcomemunda


So when I was 15 years old it was,

65% Heart, 35% Intellect:interestedsingh:


So when I was 20 years old it was,

55% Heart, 45% Intellect:redturban:


So when I was 30 years old it was,

50% Heart, 50% Intellect:singhsippingcoffee:


.
.
.
I project when I am near death
It will be 5% Heart and 95% Intellectjapposatnamwaheguru:

Bottom-line is, that for me the Heart and Intellect have changed over time.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## jsteji1 (Feb 2, 2011)

Good question Navdeep ji:

I refer to a quote, author is anonymous:

"It took me a heck a lot of knowledge to figure out how ignorant I am"

That is why I have faith in Waheguru, and I have gotten every thing I wanted and much more than I deserve.

This state of intellect opens many doors of opportunity and learning.

"Tudh Agay ardass hamari jee pind sabh Tera , Kaho Nanak sabh teri Wadyayi Koi Naam Na janey mera..."

Guru Rakha.

Jagjit Singh


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## gurbanicd (Feb 2, 2011)

Navdeep88 said:


> Dear Members,
> 
> I am interested in your understanding of your faith. Particularly, how much of it stems from INTELLECT and how much from HEART because the interaction seems crucial. What is YOUR formula or process to build, sustain and honor your faith?
> 
> Thank you.



dear g

Intellect and faith is varying from person to person and is dependent on past karma.

Guru Sahib intellect is infinite and his love (is limitless) and lucky are those who gets some part of that through waheguru's blessing.

The formula  or process to build sustain and honor your faith.

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guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry ]5] 982


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font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";     mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;     mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;     mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";     mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;     mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;     mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;     mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";     mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]-->iesu prpMc mih swcy nwm kI vifAweI mqu ko Drhu gumwnw ]1] 
_*siqgur kI ijs no miq AwvY so siqgur mwih smwnw ]*_797

bhulan chukan di khima


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 2, 2011)

NAVDEEP Ji,

Very interesting and intrigue question,different for different people but the combination of INTELLECT and HEART is wonderful in development of right faith.

Initial faith does not requre any intellect as this is primarily fixed by BIRTH.Since I took birth in a SIKH family so that constituted my base of faith.Later on it is question of depth to which one has gone in that specific faith.

As one grors INTELLECT develops in different ways depending upon several direct and indirect factors one comes across.

So by the GRACE of GURU, I definitely use the INTELLECT to know my GURU. Having known GURU with further grace I was introduced to SATiGURu/SATiGUR. From SATiGURu using my INTELLECT I grasped and understood and SATiGURu gifted NAAMu for my 
HEART.

So when NAAMu became my freind at HEART I found I had nothing to know any more

Now only I have to complete my rest of the JOURNEY with NAAMu at HEART only.At this stage INTELLECT becomes ZERO and it is only NAAMU NAAMu .....................

With best wishes

Prakash. S. Bagga


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## Tejindersinghdelhi (Feb 2, 2011)

Dear Navdeep Ji,

wjkk,wjkf. 

You have posed a very important question which is a must for every Sikh to ponder.  I have put by  heart  to understnd the Gurbani in Guru Granth Sahib and am using my intellect to understand the principles enshrined therein to guide my life as per guidelines contained in Gurbani verses.   Gurbani is my beacon light and power house to guide my day to day activiites, for every Sikh has been ordained to shape his/her life in the light of Gurbani.  So there is no confusion as I am not using my intellect to question by Guru's words which are the decide the parameters of my think tank.


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## Gurmit Singh (Feb 2, 2011)

Waheguru jee ka Khalsa  Waheguru jee kee Fateh

As I understand, this human body together with its all the components
such as body frame, soul, breath, brain, intellect, mind, is a Divine Gift.
It is our duty to take care of as well as to make use for the wellbeing
of all by obeying the Divine Command.

As soon as baby is conceived in the womb of mother and takes birth,
the law of nature applies as we human beings know nothing how it
grows gradually into childhood, youth, oldage and then expires? The
heart, mind, brain, intellect and other components operate together
spontaneously, though how each component functions, it could only
be known to a Specialist Doctor or Scientist as I have no idea.

It is often heard that so and so has died as a result of "heart failure"
but I don't know the difference between "breath and heart" because
when a person stops breathing, it is called 'dead'.

I am sorry, I have no answer to the point raised by S. Navdeep
Singh Jee or Bibi Navdeep Kaur jee.

Kindly do share when you get the right response from other
Members as this process of learning is very good.

Gurmit Singh (Sydney-Australia)


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 2, 2011)

The points raised by Gurmit Singh Ji seem to have no relevance to the question under discussion.If we talk on the basis of DIVINE GIFT then every creation of the universe is DIVINE GIFT.Out of these gifts HUMAN FORM is an UNIQUE GIFT.To have or not to have FAITH in knowing the CREATOR is a relative consideration in different HUMAN beings and to have right faith in the CREATOR is also a DIVINE GIFT.
I am not crticizing any one but simply presenting my views on certain poits.

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## TKaurG (Feb 2, 2011)

jsteji1 said:


> Good question Navdeep ji:
> 
> That is why I have faith in Waheguru, and I have gotten every thing I wanted and much more than I deserve.
> 
> Jagjit Singh



I couldn't agree more 

I think that there rlly isn't anything in sggs ji that contradicts my intellect 
The more I understand gurbani the more I love it n am thankful for it
I try to do as much paat as I can..well I do my nitnem n some other banis

There are some things that one cannot rlly describe but only feel which where it comes from the heart

Lol Idk if this was helpful in any kind of way 
Bhul chuk maaf

Tanvir


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 2, 2011)

There is infinite INTELLECT and WISDOM of GURU.

SATiGURu is the point of contact and

NAAMu is the pins for connecting

ATTACH NAAAMu on the HEART and connect to SATiGURu and expeirence the flow of INTELLECT and WISDOM

This is the ULTIMATE in FAITH.

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## spnadmin (Feb 2, 2011)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> The points raised by Gurmit Singh Ji seem to have no relevance to the question under discussion.If we talk on the basis of DIVINE GIFT then every creation of the universe is DIVINE GIFT.Out of these gifts HUMAN FORM is an UNIQUE GIFT.To have or not to have FAITH in knowing the CREATOR is a relative consideration in different HUMAN beings and to have right faith in the CREATOR is also a DIVINE GIFT.
> I am not crticizing any one but simply presenting my views on certain poits.
> 
> Prakash.S.Bagga




Prakash.S.Bagga ji

I think that Gurmit Singh ji is making a very relevant point. As I understand what he says, faith is very subjective and "components" is a word giving a rational, mechanistic sense to a description of one's feeling of faith. As if one's faith can be analyzed or divided into parts within a whole.

So if one feels a sense of faith that evolves and changes as one goes further into one's  devotion, it becomes difficult to think in terms of "components" or parts of one's faith. Faith can be complete at anyone time. The whole of anyone's faith may be so interwoven with intuitions, feeling experiences, intellectual experiences, subjective reactions that it cannot be analyzed. For some, therefore, there are no "components" or parts. Intellect cannot be sorted from feeling. Just as Gurmit ji explains how heart and breath are difficult to separate if you are thinking about living and death.

Hence the title "Components" of Your Faith might seem the wrong way of looking at faith. I must confess that I have this sense. I cannot even with great effort state the "components" of my faith. I can tell you how my faith works, but not the components/parts that make it up.  The question is not right for me.


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## Original (Feb 2, 2011)

Dear Navdeep
You ask questions fairly, and I'd like to answer a question which is fairly put. In order to answer the question to the best of my ability, I'm going to invite you to a philosophical paradigim.
According to the Western school of thought, it is held that our most familiar ideas about ourselves are rooted in the traditional view that, there is a radical difference between ourselves and the world of natural objects and forces that we inhabit. We have of course always thought of our selves as partly natural: our *bodies *have always been supposed to belong entirely to the natural world, and sublect to natural laws. Traditionally, however, we ahve always thought of ourselves as of dual nature, with one part - the important part, *soul or atma'* - transcending the natural world and quite different from it. It is to this part that our thoughts, desires, decisions and actions have  traditionally been attributed to. 
Using this dichotomy of a human being and interpreting through Sikh Philosophy, we can see that the important component is "karma". If we were to accept the laws of karma then what must flow as a result, is the fact that, I am a Sikh by virtue of being born to my parents, who are Sikhs and I must therefore ordain to the dictates and commands enshrined within Sri Guru Granth Sahig Ji and use my *intellect* to walk on the path of "*truth*" in this physical world and keep my spiritual awareness attuned to the "nam" of the house Guru Nanak Dev Ji. All honour, faithfulness, etc...will always remain in place.
Sikhism, in my opinion is a philosophy, a way of life and the religion element is only insofar to express the institutional value.  Our Guru's practiced what they preached, shaping it in such a way so as to co-exist in this present day society. To remember work, charity and nam simran is enough to cross the ocean of life and sustain faith.
Let the heart accept that it is by the grace of God that one is born a human and not an animal and that too a Sikh. Let the senses be controlled by the mind and the mind by reason and let the reason be to walk on the path of truth, both intellect and heart will be in complete harmony with Akal Purakh.

More later perhaps.....

Brgds


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## Navdeep88 (Feb 2, 2011)

JimRinX said:


> Interesting Question, Navdeep ji!
> But then I'm always wrestling with it; as I'm something of a 'lay-polymath', with a far reaching knowledge of everything from relativity to quantum chromo dynamics, but I also had a kind of 'epiphany' - I left my Body behind, spoke to God, then returned - and, afterwards, there was a pronounced white streak in my hair that had not been there before.
> Perhaps God made that happen _because _Hirm knew that that was the only way I'd ever be able to convince myself (as many Psychiatrists and Atheist Sceintist would also like to) that the Experience was REAL - rather than just some Halucination; some Lucid Dream; some misfiring of the neurons in my temporal and visual cortices - as Hirm knew that I would know that such things as the transmutation of matter (like removing the melanin protein {which colors the hair} from the colloidal keratin suspension {which hair is}, in order to turn it white, while simultaneously reprogramming the methylation groups in my hair folicules DNA, so that only that small bundle of hairs would continue to grow white for the rest of my days; as only "matter transmutation" - by Miracle, or impossible Star Trek Technology - could account for this happening) were still centuries in our future, if they're possible at all.
> This is also why I think Sikhism is a True Belief; as I, too, have, "Walked - though I had no legs; Seen - though I had no eyes......"
> Believe! I can assure you, no one snuck up behind me with a bottle of peroxide, while my body was lying on the grass, and my Spirit was traveling about the Local Group!




JimRinX Ji, 

You describe a very interesting incident... (actually, its kind of funny because one of my uncles is otherwise completely bald due to hair loss but he still has a single dreadlock which is maybe about a foot long) 
Could you elaborate on where this incident led... what further steps, what further advances. id like to know about your faith in progress. Where did this initial incident which opened your eyes, lead your heart?


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## Navdeep88 (Feb 2, 2011)

Adi Nanaki said:


> My faith begins with semi-waking and doing a morning blessing of all human facets, (ie may my eyes see only truth), requesting  that the Guru carry the blessing deeply to open the eyes of all his beloveds to truth. My cold shower includes ten squats front and back calling on each of the ten Gurus--total bliss! I do a full Nitnem Paath as a way of engaging with the Gurus each day. Jaap Sahib is done with Sat Kriya, where I powerfully chant Sat Nam to its rhythm and call on the 10 Gurus to wash the world. This task was given to me by Guru Gobind Singh when he placed a 3-D image of the world on my fingertips during this kriya five or so years ago, asking me to wash, rinse and wring it out. I relax with Tawv Prasad Swaya and Anand Sahib. Rehiras is recited with Z TVs broadcast of the evening Golden Temple program. My three evening meditations are used to call upon the Gurus to bring prosperity, blessings and healing to people in need and to all the world.  My day is winds down with Kirtan Sohila in bound lotus just before going to bed, where I call on the Gurus by breathing them into me to feel each of them in essence and be carried to their holy realm as I sleep. In living with the Gurus this way they have blessed with the gift of calling upon them to vastly come through and bless and heal others--a meditative Healing Ardas.
> 
> Sat Nam! animatedkhanda1


Adi Nanaki Ji,

Beautiful description of your day, and your connection to each bani.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 2, 2011)

SPNADMIN Ji,
Thankyou for clarifying  the sense of the message given by Gurmeet Singh Ji.
I fully agree what you mention about the sunjectivity of thr faith.Therefore my concern is rrelated to the specific faith rather than subjective which perhaps practically may not be possible.
Once again thanking you

Prakash S Bagga


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## Navdeep88 (Feb 2, 2011)

ZaraONE said:


> Dear Navdeep
> Thanks for posing the question.
> 
> "Don't waste too much time analyzing just go with the flow and Trust ... the biggest lesson to learn is go with the flow because the Universal ONE has much bigger eyeballs than we little things and knows the best path to get you from A to B!"
> ...



Actually, its just my birth year. Nothing significant enough (if anything ever is) to align with Gurbani.


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## Navdeep88 (Feb 2, 2011)

Ambarsaria said:


> For me faith is normal transition between a mix of aspects.  The mix has changed over time and generally can vary event by event, day by day though most of the time with a baseline.
> 
> So I say,
> 
> ...



Ambarsaria Ji, 

Very curious response... So what do you suspect happens when death occurs? Will it become 100% intellect? 
I think it will be 100% heart, like it was at birth...pure.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 2, 2011)

There is very unique concept in the word "SIKH" itself.Gurbaani very specifically tells us that every Human Being in the womb of Mother is in connection with the NAAMu .If we try to know about this NAAMu then probably we can have more clear picture of what faith we are talking about.
The very Basic question of faith is related to the NEED OF GURU in our life.When every thing is preplanned then what is the NEED OF GURU.We talk of faith because of this NEED.Therefore the answer to this question is equally important because this is directly related to faith with knowledge of GURU..
This itself may require different discussion this may be taken up sometime late

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Navdeep88 (Feb 2, 2011)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> NAVDEEP Ji,
> 
> 
> So by the GRACE of GURU, I definitely use the INTELLECT to know my GURU. Having known GURU with further grace I was introduced to SATiGURu/SATiGUR. From SATiGURu using my INTELLECT I grasped and understood and SATiGURu gifted NAAMu for my
> ...



Parkash Ji,

You have given the perfect answer. Intellect is a tool, to recognize right from wrong, to make decisions with God's will in mind and like you have said, to KNOW our GURU. It is useful in picking out the path, but every step on that path is the work of the heart. Thank you!


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## Adi Nanaki (Feb 2, 2011)

I was not born into a Sikh family, yet I was born a Sikh, with memories of my soul living among the Gurus from the time of Guru Nanak through the life of Guru Gobind Singh. Being Sikh is being a natural human being. Many people on earth have yet to realize they are Sikh by soul, yet are being awakened as we enter the new age, much akin to the awakening of the Egyptian people.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 2, 2011)

NAVDEEP88 Ji,
I thank you for your remarks.All appreciation is for the GURU only.

With best wishes

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## why sikhism (Feb 2, 2011)

I do not have any component of faith. My faith is weak and cannot stand any test. I think I failed all. 
Still if there is any faith, it is grace of my great Guru who prevail everywhere in all good and worst times.

Thanks,


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## spnadmin (Feb 2, 2011)

why sikhism said:


> I do not have any component of faith. My faith is weak and cannot stand any test. I think I failed all.
> Still if there is any faith, it is grace of my great Guru who prevail everywhere in all good and worst times.
> 
> Thanks,



Only holds true why sikhism ji if you assume that "faith" is something that can be tested, and the test is something you can pass or fail.

Some of the most spiritual people in history questioned the strength of their faith, or whether they had any faith at all. And often the most spiritual of mystics will report times when they feel a total absence of the presence of God. But what do we mean by "faith" in these discussions? 

Is faith 'some thing' that one can even possess or own? Is it 'some thing' that one can 'have' or 'hold' or 'adhere to?' Can it be measured or weighted? If you say, No, faith is NOT 'some thing' then faith cannot be possessed, owned, had, held, measured, weighted, or adhered to. Therefore you can not 'lose' it, it can never be 'strong' or 'weak' and cannot be 'lost.'


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 2, 2011)

Navdeep88 said:


> Ambarsaria Ji,
> 
> Very curious response... So what do you suspect happens when death occurs? Will it become 100% intellect?
> I think it will be 100% heart, like it was at birth...pure.


Navdeep88 ji good deduction indeed.

It is a circle of life.  There is a saying/phrase that in old age "the person starts to act like a child".  

However one has to recognize a virtual reality,



"Marey nain ki sochna"
What could a dead person think!
              Including actions of the *Intellect*
 
"Marey nain ki karna"
What could a dead person do!
Including actions of the *Heart*
 
 
I don't believe in the "joon kutt" (migration through different species, etc.) to be a human being again.
I believe in reasons 3, 4 and 5 in "Five Reasons you won't die"
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/interfaith-dialogues/34243-five-reasons-you-wont-die.html
 
 
So my gut feeling is that a 0/0 % transition stage *specific (me, you, etc.) *and *associated specific Intellect/Heart* state (the state before birth and after death) will ensue for a duration undefined.  Some La La land!cheerleader

_But virtually/holistically one will live for ever till the end of the human race or the last one.=======>* kind leads to the following in Oneness of all people (Ek  Joyt),*

YouTube        - Awal Allah Noor Upaya - Kalam Baba Bahgat Kabir ji - Alam Lohar (Audio)
_
Sat Sri Akal.


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## chamkaur brar (Feb 2, 2011)

Dear Navdeep ji,

Good question but it should be asked in contaxt with our Gurbani. There are three steps of Gurbani one need to adopt in life. First one need to read Gurbani and do NITT NEM. 2nd step is to understand Gurbani and last step is to apply Gurbani on your self. The whole life should be in the 5 parameters of life. These five parameters has been repeated several times in Gurbani even in Japuji, it has been 4 times. These five parameters are 1] Sat[ moral character], 2] Santokh{ contentment } 3] Dya { compassion}, 4] Dharam { faith of principles}, last but not least Veechar and anand { intellect and eternal joy}

First two steps are very easy which I do but 3rd step is  very hard. If some body has adopted 3rd step, that person is Gurmukh or has achieved JEEVAN MUKTI. Unfortunately that person is extemely rare Gurbani says VIRLA KOEE KOEE. Personaly I'm not even close to one parameter of life. If some body is, my head bestowd on his feet. I would love to see his Darshan.

The reason we start our day with NITT NEMM is just to remind to ourselves with his HUKAM of 5 parameters. and finish our day with thanks to Him for HIs blessing for our whole day being spent within HIS HUKAM of 5 parameters. That is way that the we can sustain our faith. Religion is faith of principles. Sikh religon is based on KIRAT KARO, NAM JAPO AND WAND SHAKOO.

Chamkaur Brar


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## jsteji1 (Feb 2, 2011)

"Man tu Jyot swaroop hain apna mool pehchan, man harji terey naal hai gurmati rang man" ... Guru Amar Das Ji

We all are a certain degree away from the Supreme Jyot, and although at times we may not not even feel that we are part  of the Supreme or whether it even exits within; And our actions or perceptions relay to us when we reflect during equilibrium.  

Not being aware of the Supreme Jyot is the death of consciousness and the source of mental and physical ailment.

Comprehension by intellectual mind of infinite aspects of Supreme is impossible; there is just so much to  know.

Yet the Supreme is within; we just need to evoke it and live by its Hukam. We don't listen to within.

And How important in our life is the need to know Supreme within?

Each person's answer is within himself or herself.

How much do want to dig within?

Supreme consciousness has existed before time and will not ever die. We who are a certain degrees away from the Supreme due to our physical constraints cease to live beyond conscious body's human life span. Our actions and thoughts transmitted to our surroundings remain, good or bad in our perception. If these are Supreme they prevail.

What is supreme and what is not?

Attach your mind or intellect to Gurbani and you shall find out daily some thing new about yourself and the Supreme.

First, submit. 

Bhulchuk muaf...

Guru Rakha.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 3, 2011)

AMBARSARIA Ji,
Pl accept my Divine Greetings,
You are right in reference to context of Heart till you consider this as physical part of the body.In Gurbaani the conext of Heart is mostly related to the THOUGHT PROCESS.
After Death due to the cause of Heart failure,the Death is not complete.Complete Death is said to have taken place when the activity of the  BRAIN  stops..What makes the  functioning of the BRAIn is to be understood.
You will appreciate the fact of Gurbaani that all the SPRITUAL messages of Gurbaani are directed  for MUN.Although this MUN is not any physical part of the Body.But still this MUN is the main player in our activities of every moment.
Therefore HEART has been considered as the main source or reservoir of thoughts so it is this reference .
After Death it is the THOUGHT which trasforms .In this connection you may pl refer a Shabad in SGGS pp526 Raagu GUJRI 'AREE BAI GOBIND NAAMu MATi BESARAE"

With best wishes

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 3, 2011)

Parkash S. Bagga ji thank you for your response.

I agree from what I know that death is defined at ceasing of brain operations.



For me Human body physically has a power house:  Heart
For me Human body has a physical devise for conscious and unconscious operation:  Brain
There are some auto functions as exceptions which do not need brain per se.

So at death in generally a normal fashion, Heart will stop and the brain will subsequently shut down as the supply of oxygen will be exhausted of what blood is in the brain during next few seconds/minutes (I don't know so may be someone more knowledgeable can add)
So what the brain conveys to inner you during the shut down period only Waheguru know as no one comes back from it to tell.
I believe there have been some exceptions and again I will like to hear if people have referenced information as that will be marvelous information for this thread


Sat Sri Akal.


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## passingby (Feb 3, 2011)

I have a bond with Guru Nanak. I grew up in Punjab, and in latter half of 80s when I was a very young child the movement going on in Punjab had a profound effect on me and I got interested in understanding Gurbani and other religions. That lead to a bond with Guru Nanak. 
But this bond is a very open one. I have not been born with a lot of experience and maturity which comes to certain people due to their past lives experiences and learning. In this life I am still a looooong way from maturity and inner strength and stability. There is still a lot of emotional fulfillment that needs to be take place. 
Therefore my bond with my Guru is a very open one. I come and go. Sometimes I do some practice, and try to cultivate an inner life. Then at other times I feel outer life needs to be experienced before the inner can be built. It is my understanding that repression is going to lead me nowhere. So I want to strike a balance. 
My practice is mostly limited to mental recitation of Japji while driving my car, or while doing something which is isolates me from my immediate surroundings. When I walk I repeat 'Wahe' when my left heel strikes the ground and 'Guru' when my right heel strikes down. Nowadays I am learning the skill of reciting 'Wahe' when breath goes in and 'Guru' when breath comes out. If I keep at it I shall develop a good amount of skill in this in about 6 moths I guess.
I favour 'effortless effort'. I know from experience that it is possible to split the mind into at least 2 threads, one which can continue doing a algorithm or a sequence and the other one can carry attention to other things. I have seen this while doing yogasanas. I can continue counting breaths while my attention wanders away and when it comes back I find that counting is still going on unbroken. I want to utilize this mental in my inner spiritual life. I intend to develop an unbroken inner stream of Jaap and periodically bring my attention to it. 
I further believe that once this has been accomplished all that is required is humility and love. Humility from the inner eye and Love (which includes compassion) for everything else, especially the creative powers of mother nature, because those powers are the very manifestations which we can use to connect to our source (God, the Ground or whatever) and cultivate Love for the same.
Of course doing a lot of reading of other paths also help bring a general clarity and a sense of knowing. Trying out some other meditations don't harm either. It only makes me understand things better. For instance I know what Krishnamurti talks about is *theoretically* (at least) okay. And I can see some parallels of it in Gurbani.
When it comes to other paths my belief is best expressed by what Sri Ramakrishna said once, 'A good wife loves the brothers of her husband a lot. She cares for them and sometimes indulges in harmless fun. But her love for her husband is special and different. At night she comes to her husband after everything else.' For me other paths are all okay and I sometimes flirt with them.

I love Kabir and one of his lines:

'Kaho Kabir Akkhar Doey Bhaakkh,
Hoeyga Saahib Taan Layega Raakkh'

That's it. Nobody could have said it better than Kabir.


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## chamkaur brar (Feb 4, 2011)

Ambarasasiaji and Baggaji,
 Gur Fateh.
 Now we have started a new topic" DEATH" I will try to explain everything in contaxt of our GURbani from only SGGS. I'm in medicine profession. I can explain death, Cns and autonervous system in medical terms but that is my  wordly engagement or to make my living from that profession.
Death in gurbani is mentioned as three types of death. 1] Physical death of our body 2] death of our inside or ATMIK death or death of consciousness or death of humanity. 3] dweath of maan or MAAN MARNA.
1] Physical death death , no body can escape from it.  In SGGS it is said that every body except AKAL purakh is going to die.
2] When a person becomes MANMUKH and stops listening to his inside, doing which he is not supposed to do, looses his consiousness and has animal mentality then it means he has ATMIC DEATH. There are several quotes from Gurbani about it.
3] MAAN MARNA. It is not easy but kabir ji and Guru SAHBANS have mentioned several times in our GURBANI like JOS IS MARE , SOEE SOORA ETC.
kABIR AISE MARNE JO MARE, MERE MAAN ANAND,  MARNE TE HI PAEEAI POORAN PARMANAND.
The shabad you has mentiond in Gujari rag has nothing to with death. Kall means time. I'm going to explain the whole shabad.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 4, 2011)

CHAMKAUR BRAR Ji,
Pl accept Divine Greetings,

Youy views on classification of references of DEATH in gurbaani are absolutely correct.
But in the context of SHABAD you are considering the meaning of the word KAL only.You may pl notice that the actual word is KALi (There is Sihari matra with the letter L)and this word is in conjection with the word ANT.
So the consideration in SHABAD is for ANT KALi the meaning of this composite may pl be considered for correct interpretation of the SHABAD.

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## spnadmin (Feb 4, 2011)

chamkaur brar ji

I have the highest respect for you. So my concern comes from respect not negativity. Please post an English summary of the Punjabi. English is the official language of the forum. You can send it to me by private message and I will post it right under the Punjabi.

We are trying to accommodate Punjabi readers, and when we do that, we ask for a translation or English summary as a rule.

Otherwise, I will need to delete the post. And a deletion will be a big loss to us all. Thanks spnadmin


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## simrat kaur (Feb 4, 2011)

10% intellect and 90% heart is needed (As I listened in 1 of the Pant Ratan Gyani Sant Singh Maskin Ji's Katha).
"God is not found by intellectual devices; He is unknowable and unseen" from Pavan Ang 1098 of Sahib Sri Guru Granth sahib ji.


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## chamkaur brar (Feb 4, 2011)

spnadmin said:


> chamkaur brar ji
> 
> I have the highest respect for you. So my concern comes from respect not negativity. Please post an English summary of the Punjabi. English is the official language of the forum. You can send it to me by private message and I will post it right under the Punjabi.
> 
> ...


 I donot have you your private contact email. Please if you can convert into english and punjabi then it will be more conveniebt for most of the people.
Actualy it happend when I cut and paste of that shabad then it didnot allow me write in english.. I'm computer illiterate person. If you can do wharever it is good for our members then do it.
Chamkaur


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 4, 2011)

chamkaur brar said:


> I donot have you your private contact email. Please if you can convert into english and punjabi then it will be more conveniebt for most of the people.
> Actualy it happend when I cut and paste of that shabad then it didnot allow me write in english.. I'm computer illiterate person. If you can do wharever it is good for our members then do it.
> Chamkaur


Chamkaur brar ji if you can give me the page number reference from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji I can do essence arth (translation in English) per Pro. Sahib Singh ji's GuruGranth Darpan in Punjabi.

If it helps.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## manj kr (Feb 4, 2011)

Dear all, wjkk wjkf,
I think my faith stems from the head and the heart. I have still learning alot about sikhi but I think to me, the true meaning of sikhi is truth. It is not just about reading the bani, but understanding the meaning, putting that meaning into your own daily life.
I have true faith in the guru and if it wasnt for the life's hardships I think I would have no faith, to be honest. I am trying to create a connection with the guruji and to believe that jaisa bhi hai teek hai. these things that we fight over and call our own are never and will never be our things.
i suppose my formula is to try and destroy our own internal enemies, do good, be truthful and fight against injustice. 
Rab Rakha.


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## chamkaur brar (Feb 4, 2011)

SRi Ambarsariaji, with great respect,
Page of GSSG is 526 writtten by Bhagat Trilochan ji. But Bhaee Sahib Singh himself admitted that his interpretation is not 100% correct. There are some defficencies. But i myself always dpend upon his interpreatation. in certain cases like Reincarnation, MATHE DE BHAGetcand EKA MAEE JUGAT VIAEE, prof Sahib is little bit distacted. i will write you later why i say that. i have great respect for prof. sahib. His work is only which lead me to unterpret Gurbani. if you want you canlisten to SARBJIT SINGH DHOONDA'S  katha from BANGLA SAHIB or look into regulary weekly LEKHS by Bhupinderjit Singh in Shere- Punjab printed from New York. IM in California,San diego. I will probably give you his web site.i donot have right now
Dr .Brar


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## spnadmin (Feb 4, 2011)

chamkaur brar said:


> I donot have you your private contact email. Please if you can convert into english and punjabi then it will be more conveniebt for most of the people.
> Actualy it happend when I cut and paste of that shabad then it didnot allow me write in english.. I'm computer illiterate person. If you can do wharever it is good for our members then do it.
> Chamkaur



I understand. I will figure something out. Thanks for trying. 

Also, we are talking about a passage from Professor Sahib Singh's Darpan, which has no English translation, and not from SGGS.


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## x Kulbir Singh (Feb 4, 2011)

Great amount of insight in this post. :sippingcoffeemunda:


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 4, 2011)

chamkaur brar said:


> SRi Ambarsariaji, with great respect,
> Page of GSSG is 526 writtten by Bhagat Trilochan ji. But Bhaee Sahib Singh himself admitted that his interpretation is not 100% correct. There are some defficencies. But i myself always dpend upon his interpreatation. in certain cases like Reincarnation, MATHE DE BHAGetcand EKA MAEE JUGAT VIAEE, prof Sahib is little bit distacted. i will write you later why i say that. i have great respect for prof. sahib. His work is only which lead me to unterpret Gurbani. if you want you canlisten to SARBJIT SINGH DHOONDA'S  katha from BANGLA SAHIB or look into regulary weekly LEKHS by Bhupinderjit Singh in Shere- Punjab printed from New York. IM in California,San diego. I will probably give you his web site.i donot have right now
> Dr .Brar


Chamkaur brar ji here below my attempt at the interpretation _(English translation portion)_ based on Professor Sahib Singh ji's GuruGranth Darpan,

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ArQ:- hy BYx! (myry leI Ardws kr) mYƒ kdy prmwqmw dw nwm nwh Bu`ly (qW ju AMq vyly BI auh prmwqmw hI cyqy Awvy) [rhwau[
*Hai sister pray that I don’t forget God.*


Ambarsaria note:  _Because those who do remember other than God (consider 4 examples based on Brahmin fraternity mis-beliefs of the time)_:

ਅੰਿਤਕਾਿਲਜੋਲਛਮੀਿਸਮਰੈਐਸੀਿਚੰਤਾਮਿਹਜੇਮਰੈ॥ਸਰਪਜੋਿਨਵਿਲਵਿਲਅਉਤਰੈ॥੧॥
jo mnu`K mrn vyly Dn-pdwrQ cyqy krdw hY qy iesy soc ivc hI mr jWdw hY, auh muV muV s`p dI jUny pYNdw hY [1[
*The person near death, who is money (maya) centric is reborn as a serpent (serpent to protect wealth as a symbolism).*

ਅੰਿਤਕਾਿਲਜੋਇਸਤਰ੍ੀਿਸਮਰੈਐਸੀਿਚੰਤਾਮਿਹਜੇਮਰੈ॥ਬੇਸਵਾਜੋਿਨਵਿਲਵਿਲਅਉਤਰੈ॥੨॥
jo mnu`K mrn smyN (AwpxI) iesqRI ƒ hI Xwd krdw hY qy iesy Xwd ivc pRwx iqAwg dyNdw hY, auh muV muV vysvw dw jnm lYNdw hY [2[
The person who keeps
*The person near death, who thinks of the wife (kam) is born a prostitute.*

ਅੰਿਤਕਾਿਲਜੋਲਿੜਕੇਿਸਮਰੈਐਸੀਿਚੰਤਾਮਿਹਜੇਮਰੈ॥ਸੂਕਰਜੋਿਨਵਿਲਵਿਲਅਉਤਰੈ॥੩॥
jo mnu`K AMq vyly (Awpxy) pu`qRW ƒ hI Xwd krdw hY qy pu`qRW ƒ Xwd krdw krdw hI mr jWdw hY, auh sUr dI jUny muV muV jMmdw hY [3[
*The person near death, who thinks of his sons is reborn a pig (dirty wild pigs known to having large litter leading to frustration that you will not ask for family/sons again).
* 
ਅੰਿਤਕਾਿਲਜੋਮੰਦਰਿਸਮਰੈਐਸੀਿਚੰਤਾਮਿਹਜੇਮਰੈ॥ਪਰ੍ੇਤਜੋਿਨਵਿਲਵਿਲਅਉਤਰੈ॥੪॥
jo mnu`K A^Ir vyly (Awpxy) Gr mhl-mwVIAW dy hwhuky lYNdw hY qy iehnW hwhuikAW ivc srIr C`f jWdw hY, auh muV muV pRyq bxdw hY [4[
*The person near death, who thinks of his beautiful houses and possessions dies sighing about the loss of the same and is born as a ghost (with no physical form or possessions).
* 
ਅੰਿਤਕਾਿਲਨਾਰਾਇਣੁਿਸਮਰੈਐਸੀਿਚੰਤਾਮਿਹਜੇਮਰੈ॥ਬਦਿਤਿਤਲੋਚਨੁਤੇਨਰਮੁਕਤਾਪੀਤੰਬਰੁਵਾਕੇਿਰਦੈਬਸੈ॥੫॥੨॥{ਪੰਨਾ 526}

iqRlocn AwKdw hY—jo mnu`K AMq smyN prmwqmw ƒ Xwd krdw hY qy ies Xwd ivc itikAw hoieAw hI colw iqAwgdw hY, auh mnu`K (Dn, iesqRI, pu`qr qy Gr Awidk dy moh qoN) Awzwd ho jWdw hY, aus dy ihrdy ivc prmwqmw Awp Aw v`sdw hY [5[2[
*Tirlochan says, the person who remembers God (versus the four examples before), he is freed from money, spouse (kam), sons (attachment), and earthly possessions while finding the God residing well within their heart.
* 

Sat Sri Akal.

*PS:*  I am finding that while cutting and pating sometimes font coversion causes Punjabi Ank (word) errors, I have no solution for it.  Appreciate any guidance specific to posting lines out Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji to this forum.  Please flag any errors or correct if you can.  I will appreciate it.


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## spnadmin (Feb 4, 2011)

Ambarsaria ji

Thanks for your efforts. This is the passage that needs translation too! The one I asked chamkaur brar ji about. Will you be able to do it? 

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/34299-components-of-your-faith-2.html#post141672


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 4, 2011)

spnadmin said:


> Ambarsaria ji
> 
> Thanks for your efforts. This is the passage that needs translation too! The one I asked chamkaur brar ji about. Will you be able to do it?
> 
> http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/34299-components-of-your-faith-2.html#post141672


The shabad is the same as reference provided by chamkaur brar ji.

I reviewed the translation and it is not from Prof. Sahib Singh ji's Guru Granth Darpan.  If I were to mark the two translations out of 100.  I will give Prof. Sahib Singh ji 100% and the one quoted by Chamkaur Brar ji, about 45%.  AS a result I have no interest in translating the Punjabi translation in Chamkaur Brar ji's post.

I believe I have read enough through Prof. Sahib Singh ji's preambles and guidance to be attune to his style. 

If it does not I will need to know the source and complete Sri Guru Granth Sahib writings from the author in chamkaur bra ji's quoted translation.

Hope that answers the request.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## spnadmin (Feb 4, 2011)

Ambarsaria ji

Thanks very much. All is clear.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 4, 2011)

AMBARSARIA Ji /CHAMKAUR BRAR Ji,
In the SHABAD under consideration the most important meanings are related to the imterpretation of words ANT KAALi. In most of the cases the meaning of this composite is taken as "NEAR DEATH".Prof Sahib Singh Ji has also taken the same meaning .
This meaning of the words ANT KAALi in this way is somewhat mismatching Gurbaani Concept.
A second view based on the consideration of the grammer of the composite words could also be considered as a possible interpretation.Grammatical consideration shows the words ANT KAALi refers to DURATION OF PERIOD WHERE IN THE TIME OF DEATH IS FIXED.Now this period is related to the period of CONCEPTION to DEATH.
This meaning would signify the need of connecting oneself with Gurbaani  in this particlar duration ANT KAALi{This Duration is certainly different for everyone}

This is only one of the views.This is also subject to analysis by the readers

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Adi Nanaki (Feb 4, 2011)

Sat Nam,
I find it easy to apply Guru's words to my life. I simply relate to the daily Hukam from the Golden Temple. It fits with what is going on every time. 
Blessings


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 5, 2011)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> AMBARSARIA Ji /CHAMKAUR BRAR Ji,
> In the SHABAD under consideration the most important meanings are related to the imterpretation of words ANT KAALi. In most of the cases the meaning of this composite is taken as "NEAR DEATH".Prof Sahib Singh Ji has also taken the same meaning .
> This meaning of the words ANT KAALi in this way is somewhat mismatching Gurbaani Concept.
> A second view based on the consideration of the grammer of the composite words could also be considered as a possible interpretation.Grammatical consideration shows the words ANT KAALi refers to DURATION OF PERIOD WHERE IN THE TIME OF DEATH IS FIXED.Now this period is related to the period of CONCEPTION to DEATH.
> ...


Parkash s. bagga ji Prof. Sahib Singh ji has himself addressed all this.  He did not suggest alternate translation other than it is "detractor who were panning this during his time".  I have not interest in looking at the trees and not seeing the forest.

When I read the writings in Gurbani I read these with respect to all writers and the respected people with brain development beyond us.  They paint a picture for us and everyone is going to see it with their own eyes.  Some with both eyes open in bliss, some with one eye open and other with both eyes closed and pretend and subsequently create self doubt in the sangat.

I very humbly suggest that get out of the Shabad what makes you happy.  I am quite happy with what has been posted by me in the following,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/34299-components-of-your-faith-5.html#post141728

Another way to look at the essence of the shabad is the negative connotation that I can paraphrase quite bluntly as follows for us all,

_" If having spent one's whole life and reaching old age one is still stuck in examples like Bhagat Tirlochan has written, one is definitely a very "bhoolia bhatkia " (misled and lost) soul".  Time to wake up!  This was composed  almost 450+ years ago_."

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 5, 2011)

Adi Nanaki said:


> Sat Nam,
> I find it easy to apply Guru's words to my life. I simply relate to the daily Hukam from the Golden Temple. It fits with what is going on every time.
> Blessings


Adi Nanki you it is part of being blissful to take something good out of every shabad in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.  My mom for ever says "Aaj bahut sohna vak niqlia" (Guru's Hukam truly was very beautiful today).  Never in my life I heard her say it any different.  I used to say even when I did not have the faculty to understand deeper meanings, but Mom the whole Gurbani is good and wonderful.

May God bless you.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 5, 2011)

AMBARSARIA Ji,
I simply presented a view according to grammatical considerations  of the composite word ANT KAALi.I no where said that this is the only or the best iinterpretation.Anyview can be accepted or rejected this  depends on readers.Yes ,of course, if anything wrong can be pointed out.
The way you have expressed shows there is no need for any views.Every one should remain happy with what feels O.K.  
I am sorry for any inconvinience on account of my views.
With best wishes

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 5, 2011)

Yes ,AMBARSARIA Ji.
Your negative connotation of the SHABAD appears to be more correct and relevent beacause of its answer in the last concluding line of the SHABAD.

With thanks

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 5, 2011)

The whole GURBAANI is wonderful and blissful.There is a PAURI  no17 THIT VAAR RAAGu GAURI pp300 a beautiful description of the woderful effect of Gurbaani.
I would request SPNADMIN Ji to diplay this in Gurmukhi /English for the readers

The quote is "KOEE GAAWEE KO SUNNEE KOEE KAREE BICHAAR.........

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## inder panchii (Feb 5, 2011)

believed blindly in gurus as gods till the age of 10 as preached by parents,, then studied science and started relating religion to science and logic.. there were times when the faith was completely shaken... then more and more reciting of gurbani with meaning brought me more closer to basic sikh values... till now i am using intellect as my faith in religion rather than heart only.. but in tough times logic fails and i have to bow in front of god to save me... there all logic seem failed and only heart rules :grinningkudi: and there are still changes going on...


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 5, 2011)

INDER KAUR Ji,
DIVINE GREETINGS
You are on the right path and your approach is pragmatic.I am sure with your educational background you should ba able to grasp Gurbaani messages.Keep on Knowing the intrinsic meanings of the Gurbaani words GURU and GUR this would  be
a MASTER. KEY to the Gurbaani understanding for journey from INTELLECT to HEART.
With best Wishes

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Tejwant Singh (Feb 5, 2011)

inderjit kaur said:


> believed blindly in gurus as gods till the age of 10 as preached by parents,, then studied science and started relating religion to science and logic.. there were times when the faith was completely shaken... then more and more reciting of gurbani with meaning brought me more closer to basic sikh values... till now i am using intellect as my faith in religion rather than heart only.. but in tough times logic fails and i have to bow in front of god to save me... there all logic seem failed and only heart rules :grinningkudi: and there are still changes going on...



Inderjit Kaur ji,

Guru Fateh.

Your  interesting journey is commendable. Science - which is nothing but an observational tool- made you shed your ugly plumage of a Gurbani  parrot and made you give up believing in nonsensical things like miracles etc etc that are repeated by the Granthis, Katahavachaks, and Kirtani Jathas daily in the Gurdwaras because these people's whole objective is  for not to let people think on their own but make them believe in what they are saying only for the sake of money. There is a lot of Me-ism involved here on their part, hence the true message of Gurbani is put aside.

We, as lazy beings also find it easier this way because most of us go to Gurdwaras to feel good where as Gurbani teaches us that only by doing good we can feel good. Thus, the transitory feel good feeling that we get from the above so called orators of Gurbani ends the moment we leave the premises. 

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru is a tool box that gives us the tools to develop our reasoning, critical thinking, sense of observation, open mindedness among others.

Unlike most of the other religious scriptures,Gurbani also shows us that heart and mind are not like water and oil that can not be mixed but to the  contrary. It teaches us how to mingle both to find Sehaj- Gurmat fulcrum- within.

So, your inner tug of war between your intellect and heart is quite understandable and is necessary. Your persistence in  understanding the true message of Gurbani will help you find the sangam between the two. 

After all Sikhi is a journey which itself is a destination. With every breath, every new self discovery, we reach one of many platforms of our destination and then the journey continues till the last breath.

Enjoy your journey.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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