# Outrage In Punjab Over Replica Of Golden Temple



## Archived_Member16 (Jun 15, 2009)

source: Outrage in Punjab over replica of Golden Temple - National News ? News ? MSN India - News


Monday, June 15, 2009



*Outrage in Punjab over replica of Golden Temple *

*Sangrur (Punjab): The Sikh leadership in Punjab is furious over attempts by a sect to replicate the design and structure of their holiest shrine - the Golden Temple or Harmandar Sahib at Amritsar.*


Reminiscent of the huge row after the Dera Sacha Sauda chief Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh had sought to imitate the tenth Sikh guru, Guru Gobind Singh, by wearing look-alike robes in April 2007, the private shrine in Punjab's Sangrur district, 170 km from Chandigarh, seems to have upset everyone -- from common devotees to the apex Sikh clergy and the Shiromani Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC). 

While an indignant SGPC president Avtar Singh Makkar has ordered the management of the Gurudwara Sachkhand Angeetha Sahib at Mastuana to halt further construction on the structure, the head priest of the Akal Takht (the highest temporal seat of Sikhism), Giani Gurbachan Singh has declared it "sacrilegious". 

"No one will be allowed to make a replica of Sri Darbar Sahib (Golden Temple)," the Akal Takht head said. 

A probe panel sent by the SGPC to Sangrur recorded video evidence and said in its report that the sect was trying to replicate Sikhism's holiest shrine. The panel reported "a blatant attempt to copy the design of Harmandar Sahib". 

The roots of the controversy go back 40 years ago. 

The shrine, owned by the cash-rich Mastuana Dera headed by Sant Sadhu Singh, has been under construction since 1967. It had provoked similar controversy when its outer shape became apparent in the early 1990s and the then Akal Takht Jathedar had issued a Hukumnama (religious edict) barring its completion till key structural changes were made. 

The Mastuana sect comprises of Sikh followers, mostly from the lower-strata of society. Its main influence is limited to a part of south-west Punjab's agricultural belt of Malwa. 

Recent attempts to restart work on the incomplete shrine have provoked angry objections. 

SGPC chief Makkar has summoned a meeting (Sarbat Khalsa) of important Sikh leaders and religious organisations at Amritsar on June 20 to decide on the fate of the Mastuana Gurudwara.

He said any attempt to replicate the sacred Harmandar Sahib built by the fifth Guru, Guru Arjan dev himself, "would not be tolerated". 

The Mastuana shrine management has submitted a written apology to the Akal Takht but its fate will be known Saturday. 

"The issue, including specific directions on necessary structural alterations will only be issued after the June 20 meeting," a SGPC spokesman said. 

The issue is expected to raise further acrimony amidst demands that the controversial Golden Temple replica be pulled down completely. SGPC chief Makkar has said he wants to "settle the matter once and for all". 

*IANS*


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jun 15, 2009)

Who can replicate the heart?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 16, 2009)

Matter has been simmering for past 20 years...and now being brought to a BOIL...another _low caste-high caste jatt vs others battle plan is being planned....a wise enemy never lets up..and we have got one hell of a clever enemy...64 million dollar question..WHY ALLOW CANCER TO REACH TERMINAL STAGE ??
Answer: to KILL the PATIENT..but escape the blame...Sapp ve maar jayeh..sottee vee bach jaiyeh...is an old Punajbi Proverb....Kill the snake but save the Stick !!! CHAKRVIEW...Readers must read the Bhagvad Gita to find out how a chakrview operates...(surround and tire the enmey by numerous attacks/skirmishes....keep at it..until he falls vanquished...):crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy: BUT TRUE..


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## Astroboy (Jun 16, 2009)

If you view thru Google Earth (satellite viewing) another structure similar to Sri Harmandir Sahib can be seen not far from it. The difference being, the island is bigger and the sarovar is the same size as Sri Harmandir Sahib. 

Our Gurus were far sighted when Mian Mir was asked to lay the foundation.
Because they knew what the Hindus were all about.


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## Astroboy (Jun 16, 2009)

Guru Arjan often visited Lahore to interact with the Lahore sangat. On the occasion of one such visit he called on Sain Mian Mir. The two men of God met and became lifelong friends. Mian Mir was thirteen years older than Guru Arjan. Guru Arjan was responsible for the construction of many tanks and buildings. In 1589 he planned to build a Gurdwara in the center of the holy tank called Amritsar or the tank of nectar. As the temple was to be thrown open to people of all castes, creeds and climes, he invited Mian Mir to lay the foundation stone of the Harmandar. 

Mian Mir was given a warm welcome. The two holy men embraced each other in sincere love and regard. The purpose of the temple was disclosed to the Sufi saint. The Guru pointed out that the Hindu temples and Muslim mosques were built on a raised plinth. The Sikh Gurdwara would be erected on a lower plinth than the surrounding area. The idea was that God could be attained by bending low in submission and humility. The Hindu temples and Muslim mosques were closed on three sides and had only one doorway facing east and west respectively. His temple would be open on all the four sides implying that it would welcome persons of all the four castes, Brahmans, Kshatriyas, Vaishas and Shudras; to all the four religions in the world, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam and Christianity, and to all the people from any country or climate from north, south, east and west.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 16, 2009)

namjap said:


> If you view thru Google Earth (satellite viewing) another structure similar to Sri Harmandir Sahib can be seen not far from it. The difference being, the island is bigger and the sarovar is the same size as Sri Harmandir Sahib.
> 
> Our Gurus were far sighted when Mian Mir was asked to lay the foundation.
> Because they knew what the Hindus were all about.



The DM may be BIGGER..etc..etc..BUT otheh makhian bhinnkdeean neh...meaning its void of the hustle and bustle of the Harmandar Sahib....in FACT the ONLY person to RESIST arm twsiting tactics to "visit" the DM was Queen Elixzabeth II. She stuck to her guns and said..I came to visit Harmandar sahib..and period. Each visiting foreign dignitary is.."persuaded" to visit DM after paying visit to harmandar sahib to "equalize" the two...
BUT its not said for nothing..ORIGINAL.....VS...PIRATED COPY !! how to compare the two ?? One GURU made..the other human made...  GOLD vs PITTAL..brass !!!


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## Liberal_canadian (Jun 16, 2009)

GOLD is expensive right now!!!!they will never pull this off. Maybe they should try a SILVER TEMPLE or something? Even I think a replica is in bad taste to say the least. Dont let me down extremists, GO GET EM! ahahahahahahah


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 16, 2009)

Liberal_canadian said:


> GOLD is expensive right now!!!!they will never pull this off. Maybe they should try a SILVER TEMPLE or something? Even I think a replica is in bad taste to say the least. Dont let me down extremists, GO GET EM! ahahahahahahah



NOt quite...the SANTS have TONS of GOLD...all donated by the starving minions...who eat dust..and feed their babies with watered milk called kachee lassi... .but donate pails of milk for these gogarrs - just look at the golden domes and golden palkis everywhere..do you think the saadhs sweated for that ??


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jun 18, 2009)

what if people stop going to Gurudwaras?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 18, 2009)

amarsanghera said:


> what if people stop going to Gurudwaras?



Nothing.


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jun 18, 2009)

great

solves a lots of problems..esp the Badal and SGPC nexus


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## Archived_Member16 (Jun 20, 2009)

*source: Mastuana temple to effect structural changes: Akal Takht - Chandigarh - Cities - The Times of India*

*Mastuana temple to effect structural changes: Akal Takht*

21 Jun 2009, 0511 hrs IST, Yudhvir Rana, TNN
 - THE TIMES OF INDIA

AMRITSAR: Coming down heavily on the management of Mastuana gurdwara for reportedly planning a replica of the venerated Golden Temple, Sikh religious bodies and intellectuals who gathered under the aegis of Akal Takht on Saturday called for demolition of domes, doing away with a pond and changing the structure's name of Sri Guru Singh Sabha. 

Unleashing the broadside at a meeting convened by him at Teja Singh Samundari Hall, Akal Takht jathedar Giani Gurbachan Singh, while talking to the media later, said, "My statement is to be treated as hukamnama. The congregation of Sikh religious bodies has decided that the gurdwara'a sarovar be filled with earth, Har Ki Pauri and four domes be demolished and its name changed." 

Appearing unforgiving towards Baba Baldev Singh Suharaewala for hurting religious sentiments of Sikhs with a Golden Temple look-alike, formerly known as Gurdwara Sach Khand, Angitha Sahib, the jathedar added, "He will be summoned to Akal Takht for submitting a clarification." 

The changes will reportedly be effected under the supervision of Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee engineers to rule out any likening whatsoever to Harmandar Sahib. 

The meeting which lasted for nearly two-and-a-half hours was attended by representatives of 55 different Sikh religious bodies, including Nighang organizations, SGPC president and office bearers and former central minister Sukhdev Singh Dhindsa. In fact, some radical Sikh groups like Dal Khalsa even demanded the pulling down of the complete gurdwara. 

Incidentally, jathedar of Takht Damdama Sahib Giani Balwant Singh Nandgarh left the meeting in between, expressing his resentment over the presence of jathedar of Takht Patna Dahib Giani Iqbal Singh.


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## Tejwant Singh (Jun 20, 2009)

> Incidentally, jathedar of Takht Damdama Sahib Giani Balwant Singh Nandgarh left the meeting in between, expressing his resentment over the *presence of jathedar of Takht Patna Dahib Giani Iqbal Singh. *


 
Is this the Giani Iqbal Singh who is a  known bigamist for living with two wives?

Tejwant Singh


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jun 20, 2009)

hahahaha
:}{}{}:


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## Lee (Jul 1, 2009)

Not sure why the fuss really, can anybody explain?


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## spnadmin (Jul 1, 2009)

Lee ji

My possibly incorrect hypothesis here. There is a cultural dimension to the question that you and I may not pick up at first. In the west a replica of a church or other important shrine (such as Independence Hall in the US) is sought after and celebrated as the builders of the new edifice are trying to spread the history and enthusiasm for the older building to new places and people. But in this situation the replica is built to acquire the authority of the older building and create the impression that the adherents of the new building share the beliefs and traditions of the older building in this case Harimandir Sahib. The proponents of the older building look on this as an insult because of standing religious differences and political divisions. As if sand is being kicked in their faces. They see it almost as a mockery of them and a kind of theft of an important location of holiness. Harimandir is more than a symbol. it is a place of spiritual power. We don't think of our shrines and churches as places of spiritual power in the West by and large. If I am incorrect in my understanding someone will correct me.


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## Lee (Jul 1, 2009)

aad0002 said:


> Lee ji
> 
> My possibly incorrect hypothesis here. There is a cultural dimension to the question that you and I may not pick up at first. In the west a replica of a church or other important shrine (such as Independence Hall in the US) is sought after and celebrated as the builders of the new edifice are trying to spread the history and enthusiasm for the older building to new places and people. But in this situation the replica is built to acquire the authority of the older building and create the impression that the adherents of the new building share the beliefs and traditions of the older building in this case Harimandir Sahib. The proponents of the older building look on this as an insult because of standing religious differences and political divisions. As if sand is being kicked in their faces. They see it almost as a mockery of them and a kind of theft of an important location of holiness. Harimandir is more than a symbol. it is a place of spiritual power. We don't think of our shrines and churches as places of spiritual power in the West by and large. If I am incorrect in my understanding someone will correct me.


 

Dear Aad ji,

Yes I do get what you are saying, and it is within this context that my puzzlement arises.

One of my faverite tales of Guru Nanak ji, is where he goes to Mecca and is berated for falling asleep with his feet pointing towards the mosuqe.  His reply about pointing his feet in the direction where God is no, I think is very valid here.

A Gudwara is not where God lives, it is a building in which sangat gather to hear Gurbani, and thus Guru.

I would ask by what condition makes any building more holyer than, ohhh lets just say a tree?

Even if it is as you say, an attempt by one community to somehow hijack the belifes of another community, then it strkes me that the more spirtualy aware community should look upon this with pride rarther than loathing.  They are trying to emulate us and that is bad because.........?


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## spnadmin (Jul 1, 2009)

Lee ji,

This is where my thinking comes to a standstill and someone else will need to take it further.


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## Lee (Jul 1, 2009)

aad0002 said:


> Lee ji,
> 
> This is where my thinking comes to a standstill and someone else will need to take it further.


 

Aad Ji,

The simplest answer seems to be because even our SPCG is filled with humans all to prone to human ego it's whilly ways. I honestly cannot see any valid reason from a Sikhi POV for this.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jul 1, 2009)

IF we SIKHS have allowed "millions"  of COPIES of SGGS.....
WHY NOT Harmandir....
IN Fact imho..each and every GURDWARA in the world Should be an exact REPLICA of Harmandir In Amrtisar..just as each and every SGGS Paraksh in each and every GURDWARA is an EXACT REPLICA of the ORIGINAL SGGS.:yes::yes::yes::yes::yes:


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## Astroboy (Jul 1, 2009)

ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੧  ॥ 
बिलावलु महला १ ॥ 
Bilāval mėhlā 1. 
Bilaawal, First Mehl: 

ਮਨੁ  ਮੰਦਰੁ  ਤਨੁ  ਵੇਸ  ਕਲੰਦਰੁ  ਘਟ  ਹੀ  ਤੀਰਥਿ  ਨਾਵਾ  ॥ 
मनु मंदरु तनु वेस कलंदरु घट ही तीरथि नावा ॥ 
Man manḏar ṯan ves kalanḏar gẖat hī ṯirath nāvā. 
My mind is the temple, and my body is the simple cloth of the humble seeker; deep within my heart, I bathe at the sacred shrine. 

ਏਕੁ  ਸਬਦੁ  ਮੇਰੈ  ਪ੍ਰਾਨਿ  ਬਸਤੁ  ਹੈ  ਬਾਹੁੜਿ  ਜਨਮਿ  ਨ  ਆਵਾ  ॥੧॥ 
एकु सबदु मेरै प्रानि बसतु है बाहुड़ि जनमि न आवा ॥१॥ 
Ėk sabaḏ merai parān basaṯ hai bāhuṛ janam na āvā. ||1|| 
The One Word of the Shabad abides within my mind; I shall not come to be born again. ||1|| 

ਮਨੁ  ਬੇਧਿਆ  ਦਇਆਲ  ਸੇਤੀ  ਮੇਰੀ  ਮਾਈ  ॥ 
मनु बेधिआ दइआल सेती मेरी माई ॥ 
Man beḏẖi▫ā ḏa▫i▫āl seṯī merī mā▫ī. 
My mind is pierced through by the Merciful Lord, O my mother! 

ਕਉਣੁ  ਜਾਣੈ  ਪੀਰ  ਪਰਾਈ  ॥ 
कउणु जाणै पीर पराई ॥ 
Ka▫uṇ jāṇai pīr parā▫ī. 
Who can know the pain of another? 

ਹਮ  ਨਾਹੀ  ਚਿੰਤ  ਪਰਾਈ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥ 
हम नाही चिंत पराई ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ 
Ham nāhī cẖinṯ parā▫ī. ||1|| rahā▫o. 
I think of none other than the Lord. ||1||Pause|| 

ਅਗਮ  ਅਗੋਚਰ  ਅਲਖ  ਅਪਾਰਾ  ਚਿੰਤਾ  ਕਰਹੁ  ਹਮਾਰੀ  ॥ 
अगम अगोचर अलख अपारा चिंता करहु हमारी ॥ 
Agam agocẖar alakẖ apārā cẖinṯā karahu hamārī. 
O Lord, inaccessible, unfathomable, invisible and infinite: please, take care of me! 

ਜਲਿ  ਥਲਿ  ਮਹੀਅਲਿ  ਭਰਿਪੁਰਿ  ਲੀਣਾ  ਘਟਿ  ਘਟਿ  ਜੋਤਿ  ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰੀ  ॥੨॥ 
जलि थलि महीअलि भरिपुरि लीणा घटि घटि जोति तुम्हारी ॥२॥ 
Jal thal mahī▫al bẖaripur līṇā gẖat gẖat joṯ ṯumĥārī. ||2|| 
In the water, on the land and in sky, You are totally pervading. Your Light is in each and every heart. ||2|| 

ਸਿਖ  ਮਤਿ  ਸਭ  ਬੁਧਿ  ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰੀ  ਮੰਦਿਰ  ਛਾਵਾ  ਤੇਰੇ  ॥ 
सिख मति सभ बुधि तुम्हारी मंदिर छावा तेरे ॥ 
Sikẖ maṯ sabẖ buḏẖ ṯumĥārī manḏir cẖẖāvā ṯere. 
All teachings, instructions and understandings are Yours; the mansions and sanctuaries are Yours as well. 

ਤੁਝ  ਬਿਨੁ  ਅਵਰੁ  ਨ  ਜਾਣਾ  ਮੇਰੇ  ਸਾਹਿਬਾ  ਗੁਣ  ਗਾਵਾ  ਨਿਤ  ਤੇਰੇ  ॥੩॥ 
तुझ बिनु अवरु न जाणा मेरे साहिबा गुण गावा नित तेरे ॥३॥ 
Ŧujẖ bin avar na jāṇā mere sāhibā guṇ gāvā niṯ ṯere. ||3|| 
Without You, I know no other, O my Lord and Master; I continually sing Your Glorious Praises. ||3|| 

ਜੀਅ  ਜੰਤ  ਸਭਿ  ਸਰਣਿ  ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰੀ  ਸਰਬ  ਚਿੰਤ  ਤੁਧੁ  ਪਾਸੇ  ॥ 
जीअ जंत सभि सरणि तुम्हारी सरब चिंत तुधु पासे ॥ 
Jī▫a janṯ sabẖ saraṇ ṯumĥārī sarab cẖinṯ ṯuḏẖ pāse. 
All beings and creatures seek the Protection of Your Sanctuary; all thought of their care rests with You. 

ਜੋ  ਤੁਧੁ  ਭਾਵੈ  ਸੋਈ  ਚੰਗਾ  ਇਕ  ਨਾਨਕ  ਕੀ  ਅਰਦਾਸੇ  ॥੪॥੨॥ 
जो तुधु भावै सोई चंगा इक नानक की अरदासे ॥४॥२॥ 
Jo ṯuḏẖ bẖāvai so▫ī cẖanga ik Nānak kī arḏāse. ||4||2|| 
That which pleases Your Will is good; this alone is Nanak's prayer. ||4||2||


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jul 1, 2009)

Another FACT not being mentioned at all is that this GURDWARA is SGPC PROPERTY under the 1925 Gurdawra ACT. The SGPC fellows are trying to cover up their gross failures....and the AAG maggann aiyee gharwali bann baithee applies... ( this Punjabi proverb means..the woman who came to borrow "fire" became the OWNER.. IN Punajb its common to go to aneighbour and borrow fire to light your own stove..adn this goes on in tne village 24/7 so no one actually needs matches !! In English society..its more common to "borrow a cup of SUGAR"...as an excuse to break te ice/get to knwo the neighbours...not so Punjabis..they BORROW FIRE !!he he he..) The AAG mannggan wallee is the SANT who now maintains he owns the SGPC Gurdawra !!


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## Hardip Singh (Jul 1, 2009)

VaheguruSeekr said:


> Is this the Giani Iqbal Singh who is a known bigamist for living with two wives?
> 
> Tejwant Singh


 
Tejwant jee,
Could you confirm from any text of SGGS where it is said bigamy is not fit for Sikhs or is banned or taboo for them. Be exact?


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## Tejwant Singh (Jul 2, 2009)

Hardip Singh said:


> Tejwant jee,
> Could you confirm from any text of SGGS where it is said bigamy is not fit for Sikhs or is banned or taboo for them. Be exact?



Hardip Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Pardon my ignorance but I am a bit confused about your question.

First you want me to prove a negative which is not possible by a lay man like me. Btw, do you condone bigamy?

Secondly, I would like to respond to your question with another one so you can enlighten me about which will help me understand your query in a better manner.

What in your opinion is SGGS about?

Lastly, I would like to know if bigamy is legal in the Indian constitution. Do you know if it is or not?

Thanks

Tejwant Singh


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## Hardip Singh (Jul 2, 2009)

VaheguruSeekr said:


> Hardip Singh ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> ...


 
Tejwant jee,
My knowledge about this is limited too. But long back, when in India they were planning for a seperate Sikh personal law, in the proposals they had made the provision for two marriages for Sikhs. Why and how they arrived at, I do not know. But this act is still a far cry.  I am sure they kept this provision in those proposals. probably, it might be an old coustom. I think, some senior members could put light on the subject. 
Hardip Singh


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