# Na Koi Hindu Na Koi Mussalman - Guru Nanak



## Rajs (Aug 26, 2004)

Fellow Members,

What did Guru Nanak mean by his statement "Na Koi Hindu Na Koi Mussalman"?

Is it that,

1. He is neither hindu nor mussalman?

2. To God there is no differennce between a hindu and mussalman, or whoever ?

3. People should not call themselves hindu or mussalman?

4. He started a new religion - Sikhism?

Any one with some insight or personal views?


Regards
Rajs


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## etinder (Aug 27, 2004)

*Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak*

hi rajs
why dont u look into the thread

The Mission of Guru Nanak : A Muslim Appraisal

Regards


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## Rajs (Aug 29, 2004)

Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak

Dear etinder,

“He was to remind them that all the messengers and the prophets in history came only to lead people to the right path. These messengers never considered themselves belonging to one group. They were for all. It were the people who created a new group. Guru Nanak really did the right thing when he declared that he was neither a Hindu nor a Mussalman. Certainly that was not a denial of Islam or Hinduism. That was only a declaration that even those who called themselves Muslims were not really Muslims judged by the standards of their own religion. Nor was there a Hindu found in the world as he ought to be.” - Mushirul Haq

Mr. Haq’s explanation on Guru Nanak’s statement concludes that, a Hindu is not following Hinduism as he/she should; and a Musalman is not following Islam as he/she should. Furthermore, he implies that Guru Nanak did not “create a new group" (i.e., Sikhism) but people did!

Here are few other explanations rendered by various sources advocating Sikhism:

"There is no Hindu and no Musalman." This meant that there was no difference between man and man. (But some interpret that both Hindus and Muslims had forgotten the precepts of their religions). (www.allaboutsikhs.com)

Guru Nanak Dev further said, "There is no Hindu, no Musalman", implying that the dividing lines between the creeds are unreal and false. So men must come under a sole universal creed, wherein lies no scope for the sectarian discord. (www.sikh.net)

"There is no Hindu, no Musalman", meaning thereby that man is spiritually one. He cannot be divided on the basis of religion. (www.sikhstudies.org)

The first message of Guru Nanak, “There is no Hindu, no Musalman; we are equal humans and are all loved by God,” (www.sikhism.com)

From the above quotes, we can deduce that Mr. Haq’s explanation is a personal opinion and does not quite agree with the explanation rendered by quoted sources, which seem to imply that Guru Nanak did not identify people with their religious belief.

It is often stated that Guru Nanak started a “universal” religion, Sikhism, which is tolerant of other faiths; and considers all faiths to be equal, i.e., many paths leading to same destination. But, if Guru Nanak DID NOT agree with categorizing people according to religious belief then how can he be the founder of a new religious belief - Sikhism?

Regards

Rajs


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## BabbarSher (Oct 15, 2004)

*Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak*

Dear Rajs: 

Yes, Guru Nanak did not agree with categorizing people intow restricted, closed clusters of Hindu, Muslims, Christians. 

Guru Nanak belived that no one had the right to claim exclusvitiy to act as an intercessor with God. And this implies to people who claim that their prophets were sons of God, his right hand, or that only they can enter heavnes, or that they can only be saved through a designated auhtority -- all these were rejected by Guru Nanak. 

He believed the one true religion to be the Name of God. And this my dear rajs is the foundation of sikhi - which means to learn and improve constantly. 

Everything in sikhi, be it keeping hair, or the K's revolves around this only. Ponder and you will get it. If you still dont, come back and I will try and explain. 

Akal sahai


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## drkhalsa (Oct 15, 2004)

*Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak*

Dear Rajs 

Iwelcome back once again 

It is often stated that Guru Nanak started a “universal” religion, Sikhism, which is tolerant of other faiths; and considers all faiths to be equal, i.e., many paths leading to same destination. But, if Guru Nanak DID NOT agree with categorizing people according to religious belief then how can he be the founder of a new religious belief - Sikhism?  


As i think of this situation that nanak didnt agree with either muslim and hindu then how he could lead to formation of new faith

According to my belief and understanding religions as they existed in times of guru ji and even today are not needed for realisation of god and i consider it is a pathless journey 
so question arises that if it is so then why guru nanak lead to the formation of sikhism as a new religion as i think it is not a religion at all it totally a new kind of thing which cant be categorised in already existing class of religions ( hinduism, Islam chritianity)
but it is inediquacy of people who look at it as a religion 

I n  Sikhism it is journey toward s feet of akal puralkh with guidance of our gurujis who themselves went the same way and so fuuly able to guide us on this path.
.


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 15, 2004)

Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak

*"Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak*​
_No one is a child of a lesser God_​
Most religions were created like exclusive bazaars to lasso the followers in shopping only in their respective market places. If they chose to shop in some other bazaar they would be punished and would end up in a dungeon called hell. The perfect scare tactics used by Hinduism, Islam and Christanity.

These religions claimed to have the only key to unlock the padlock of spirituality.

Padlock??

Yes, padlock. Religions based on fear needed to have their 'cattle' fenced and blindfolded so they could not peek on the other side.

This 'My God is better than yours' doctrine continued for centuries till the birth of GURU NANAK. He saw that the religions of the time had become exclusive clubs busy in criticising others' in order to create an impression of their 'golf courses' being more attractive with less sand traps.

Guru Nanak saw IK ONG KAAR totally differently than what the honchos of Hinduism, Islam and Christanity projected ONE GOD to be. He took the monoply out of the hands of the chosen classes thus made the path...the link..the connection with IK ONG KAAR for all. He showed that every soul on this universe and beyond has the same right and is also bestowed with the same light. If the Sun, ONE GOD'S creation gives warmth to all peoples from all relgions and creeds then how can ONE GOD only belongs to the few..the so called chosen ones??!!

What Guru Nanak did was very courageous. He condemned these religions - the feuding gods- and showed them the universality of IK ONG KAAR.

He refuted all the silly rituals in the religions and showed that seeking GOD was not as tricky as the Brahimns, Mullahs and the Christian clergy projected it to be and GOD'S grace did not only fall on those who ate halal meat or those who created caste system to supress the others nor did it fall on the 'Born againers'. Born again Christians claim that only those who are born again are saved.

Saved from what??

It shows that thier deity did not do a good job the very first time.

Following is one of many verses in The Bible that shows how fear hatred and anger is used in christanity:-

God said to the others, Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children." (Ezekiel 9:5-6)

Guru Nanak's questioning of these silly rituals evolved into a different school of thought. He made people see that everyone had the same right irrespective of their socio-economic status. He called himself a SIKH- a Student - A Seeker of IK ONG KAAR. It is a must to notice that Guru Nanak ( who never called himself a Guru) did not name his followers after his name but gave all including himself a single name SIKH- A Learner.

A Sikh embraces the world with open arms, sans fear. Fear based religions make people live in fetal position.

How can one embrace IK ONG KAAR in that posture??!!!

Sikhism means a group of students who collectively have one goal and that is to learn about themselves and others so all can become better than what they are.

Sikhism is IDEA BASED religion unlike most of the others that are personality based. Our GURU, our teacher is GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI not a person, which is the fruit of 200 some years of evolution through 10 teachers instilling ONE IDEA- of ONE GOD for all.

Sikhism was not created by some magical miracle like the religions mentioned where 'God' gave the authority to the chosen few, in this particular case Jesus and Mohammed. God that picks and chooses is NOT ONE TRUE GOD as we are all HIS children. Hence the logical conclusion which can be derived from these schools of thought is that some people thought themselves as gods and/or the exclusive messengers where ONE GOD only spoke to/ through them. These beings who pretended to be gods or the exclusive spokespersons of the Almighty got emboldened and created means of terror and fear to control the weak and the ignorant. They created a carrot and stick concept by inventing Heaven and Hell in the worlds beyond. They told all those who did not adhere to their teaching would perish in Hell and those who followed them would end up in a Utopia called heaven. Some even threw 72 virgins in the gift basket.They even named them God fearing. The fear trick worked, rather very well.

Guru Nanak thought all this as nothing but hypocricy. He showed people that we all are gifts from GOD and showed them that only Love is the connection. In order to cultivate this love, He taught people a 3 step program, Worship, Work and Welfare. Thousands of people specially the weak, the fearful got attracted to this new open gate seeking ONE GOD concept. They rejected their silly rituals and unfruitful beliefs thus became Sikhs- The Learners, the followers of Truth.

Hence this unique school of thought became a religion of the SEEKERS called Sikhism where people from all hues and creeds could come together and praise ONE TRUE GOD sans scary dogma of Hell or Heaven.

"Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak

The above lines from Guru Nanak have been distorted by other religions, specially by Hindus, Muslims and the Converted Christians who have been indoctrinated not to think on their own. BTW, A person that converts from one religion to the other ( religion shopping) is only trying to change its spots by changing rituals that fit a particular faith. He has been blindfolded and can not see that goodness needs none of it.

Now back to the above verse:-

What Guru Nanak meant was that we are all IK ONG KAAR'S children irrespective of our hue, creed or faith.

Christians and Muslims have been brainwashed to think that their respective Deities are the only Portal/s to ONE GOD's realm. By sheer trickery they created thier own wells where thier respective frogs could dwell and remain in those self created little worlds rather than live in THE ONE universal ocean of love and understanding.

In conclusion, I would like to add that Hindu, Christian, Muslim are religious labels whereas being a SIKH is a way of life.

"Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak. All are Seekers, learners, students...Sikhs.

No one is a child of a lesser god.

The same thought process is again expressed in the following Shabad by 5th Guru which shows the continuation of IDEA BASED ONE GOD.

This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Kaanraa on Pannaa 1299

kwnVw mhlw 5 ]
kaanarraa mehalaa 5 ||
Kaanraa, Fifth Mehl:

ibsir geI sB qwiq prweI ]
bisar gee sabh thaath paraaee ||
I have totally forgotten my jealousy of others,

jb qy swDsMgiq moih pweI ]1] rhwau ]
jab thae saadhhasa(n)gath mohi paaee ||1|| rehaao ||
since I found the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. ||1||Pause||

nw ko bYrI nhI ibgwnw sgl sMig hm kau bin AweI ]1]
naa ko bairee nehee bigaanaa sagal sa(n)g ham ko ban aaee ||1||
No one is my enemy, and no one is a stranger. I get along with everyone. ||1||

jo pRB kIno so Bl mwinE eyh sumiq swDU qy pweI ]2]
jo prabh keeno so bhal maaniou eaeh sumath saadhhoo thae paaee ||2||
Whatever God does, I accept that as good. This is the sublime wisdom I have obtained from the Holy. ||2||

sB mih riv rihAw pRBu eykY pyiK pyiK nwnk ibgsweI ]3]8]
sabh mehi rav rehiaa prabh eaekai paekh paekh naanak bigasaaee ||3||8||
The One God is pervading in all. Gazing upon Him, beholding Him, Nanak blossoms forth in happiness. ||3||8||


Tejwant


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## Sher Singh (Apr 23, 2005)

*Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak*



			
				Rajs said:
			
		

> Fellow Members,
> 
> What did Guru Nanak mean by his statement "Na Koi Hindu Na Koi Mussalman"?
> 
> ...



What Guru Nanak meant was that there are so many pukhandis out that sayiing their Muslims and Hindus. But in fact, is there a real Muslim and Hindu? No, there isnt! Why? because as Guru Ji was asked by a Qazi, "Please Expliain what you mean by There is no Hindu and there is no Mussalman, about the Hindus i shall say nothing but there are hundreds of Muslims in this very town. There are thousands of them in the country! What you say is not true"

Guru Nanak replied, " It is true that there are thousands who call themselves Muslims. There are thousands who call themselves Hindus. All the same, there is no Hindu. There is no Muslim. The Hindus have forgotton the rules of their religion and Muslims have forgotton the rules of their religion as well. All Hindus and Muslims are sons of the same Father. They are brothers. But they are not doing so. A true Hindu and a true Muslim should do nothing that may displease God. He should do such acts as may please God. Some acts are: to be kind and merciful to all His children; to do no harm to any one; to be just, humble, and truthfuk; to avoid anger, greed, and pride; not to take what belongs to another by right; ever to think of God; to earn a living by honest labour; to share one's earnings with the poor and the needy; to try to make others live and act in this way. Now, look around you, and tell me how many people do all this? How many people can be called True Hindus or Muslims?"

The Qazi had nothing to say and fell at the Guru's feet.

That is the true meaning of "Na koi Hindu, Na koi Mussalman"

Hope that helps


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## luthra_sumeet (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak*

can some body post that at what page in sri guru granth sahib does this line appears ("Na koi hindu na koi mussalman") as i have read one shabad in someother discussion grp to be 

"Na hum hindu Na muslman allah ram ke pind pran."

or are these two different shabads 

i would like to verify what is the original shabads .

-Sumeet Singh Luthra


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## Sher Singh (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak*

I have tried to look up the Shabad, "No koi Hindu, Na koi Mussalman" but i could not find anything. All I know is that Guru Nanak after 3 days in the water came out and said this Shabad.

Guru Arjan Dev Ji however says,

Page 1136, Line 11 --  Guru Arjan Dev
 nw hm ihMdU n muslmwn ] 
I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim. 
naa ham hindoo na musalmaan. 

There aren't 2 different Shabads as to what i know.

Hope that helps


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## gursidak (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak*

This has been an absorbing discussion.

An important point I want to add to points already made is that neither Siri Guru Nanak or any of the other Sikh Gurus preempted followers of any 'religion' whatsoever from the final realization or Moksha and 'technically' there was always equal chance for everyone irrespective of his/her religion. This is definitely unique to Sikhism and precludes in the least any possibility of Sikhism being a religion like others.

I have reasons to believe that no other 'religion' talks of final emancipation of the followers of any other religion but its own, but here we hear that be it hindu or mussalman, he has no one else but himself to hold responsible for what comes. As he sows, so shall he reap thanks to his Karma. Since at the very beginning Siri Guru Nanak did not propose a separate sect but addressed the humanity in common including Hindus, Muslims, and other, so each and every teaching is common to all. On dwelling a bit more even into the Banis of all the Bhagats in Siri Guru Granth Sahib, it is obvious that never was a specific religion or sect concluded as a favorite. The reason is obvious that no religion can preclude your Karma and grant you an automatic entry into so-called 'Heaven or Hell.' Maybe that's the reason that Sikh belief was never sought to be promoted as a separate 'religion' by our Gurus. No importance was given to what religion one belonged to or, for instance, Mia Mir wouldn't have laid the foundation stone of Siri Harmandir Sahib and ample other instances throughout Sikh history.

For one, it beats me as to why Sikhism is being looked as a fast-growing Company looked upon by some 'so-called' Huge Corporations to be taken over. Sikhism is in a different league by way of the fact that even at the inception, it was never meant to be a religion. Sikhism was never a religion but a spiritual way of life.

Also, I would like to mention that never in the history of Sikhism were any efforts whatsoever made by anyone to convert people of other religions by any means to Sikhism (neither force nor any other means of canvassing - Maharaja Ranjit Singh's rule was never used for such ulterior motives). Here, it again strengthens the belief that Sikhism was never groomed on the conventional definition of "religion' as is obvious from the history of other 'religions.'

Guru Rakha

God Bless All


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## Sher Singh (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak*

Excellent post gursidak!!!!! very good!!!


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## Arvind (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak*

Gursidak ji,
I liked reading your post. Continue sharing please.
Regards.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak*

Gurfateh



keep it up.Akal Bless you.


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## Amardeep (Apr 30, 2006)

how can u say that sikhi is not a religion when Guru Gobind singh clearly states sikhism as a religion.

* “I have cherished thee as my Son, and created thee to establish a religion and restrain the world from senseless acts. I stood up, folded my hands, bowed my head and replied,‘Thy religion will prevail in all the world, when it has Thy support’.”

http://sikhiwiki.org/index.php?title=Gobind_Singh
*


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## Amardeep (Apr 30, 2006)

sorry..when waheguru states sikhism to be a religion.


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## sukhsingh (Mar 6, 2017)

Sher Singh said:


> *Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak*
> 
> I have tried to look up the Shabad, "No koi Hindu, Na koi Mussalman" but i could not find anything. All I know is that Guru Nanak after 3 days in the water came out and said this Shabad.
> 
> ...


 guru nanak is known through his sakhi (hagiographic account of guru nanks life) as saying na koi hindu na koi musalman? ie. no one is a hindu or muslim... and toe extrapolate that further he was saying religious identity are man made and false

guru arjan dev ji wrote in sggs na ham hindoo nah musalman.... guru arjun dev ji extended this as there was now a sikh comunity to use the word 'hum'/we arguably he was saying the sikh community transcends religious identity


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## Dalvinder Singh Grewal (Mar 7, 2017)

Rajs said:


> Fellow Members,
> 
> What did Guru Nanak mean by his statement "Na Koi Hindu Na Koi Mussalman"?
> 
> ...


         As per daily practice Guru Nanak went for a bath in Vein River along with a helper. During bath Guru Nanak got orders from the True Lord to appear before Him. Nanak presented himself before God Who offered him a cup of nectar and ordered: “Nanak! This nectar is the cup of my Name. Drink it.” Guru Nanak obeyed and had the nectar. God was kind: “Nanak! I am with you. My pleasure is on you. Whosoever takes your name will have my pleasure. You go and recite My Name and get the people to recite. Keep unattached from the world. Remain reciting My Name, distributing alms, maintain cleanliness and serve mankind and meditate on Me. I have given you My Name. You do this service only.” …. “Nanak! Whomsoever you bless; they are blessed by Me. On whosoever you are pleased I am pleased too. My Name is Parbrahm Parmesar your name will be Guru Parmeshwar.”.‘_Agia Parmesar ki hoi, jo Nanak Bhagat Hoa tan amrit da katora bhar(i) kar(i) agia naal mili’_[1]….. “Nanak Nirankari, You have been sent to redeem the humanity in this darkage (Kalyug). You must get them remember and meditate on Me so that who unite with Me, can be delivered from all the sins and are relieved from the circle of life and death.”…“Deliver the message of Truth, Unity of God, equality and brotherhood of humanity to one and all. [2] He had orders to deliver the message of truth to the entire universe. He thus had received instructions of ‘seva, simaran and human redemption’, during his enlightenment where now stands Gurudwara Antaryamta Sahib, Sultanpur in Kapurthala Distt.




*Gurudwara Shri Antaryamta Sahib, Sultanpur Lodhi*

 Guru Nanak did not come out from Bein for quite sometime causing the rumours that Guru Nanak has drowned. Guru Nanak’s return surprised all. On his emergence from the river, Guru Nanak called out: “There is no Hindu; no Muslim” People complained to Nawab Daulat Khan, who called Guru Nanak to his office. Guru Nanak declined this by saying that he is not now required to bother for anyone else other than God.  At his audacity, people started calling him insane. The Guru asked Mardana to play rebec and sang:

Some call me a ghost; some say that I am a demon. Some call me a mere mortal; O poor Nanak! ||1 ||  Crazy Nanak has gone insane, after my Lord, the King. I know of none other than the Lord.  || 1 ||  Pause  ||  I alone am known to be insane, when I go insane with the Fear of God. I recognize none other than the One Lord and Master.  || 2 ||  I alone am known to be insane, if I work for the One Lord. Recognizing the Hukam, the Command of his Lord and Master, what other cleverness do I have?  || 3 ||  I alone am known to be insane, when I fall in love with my Lord and Master. I seemyself as bad, and all the rest of the world as good.  || 4 || 7 ||[3]

  On Nawab’s humble request Guru Nanak met him. Qazi sitting close the Nawab asked:”Nanak you say that there is neither any Hindu nor any Muslim; why do you say so? It may be right for Hindus but you cannot say this for Muslims.” Guru Nanak sang:

“It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called the one. First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away. Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life. As he submits to God’s Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit. O Nanak, when he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim.”[4])

Qazi questioned: “What qualities a Muslim should have?” Guru Nanak replied:

“Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Quran. Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim. Let good conduct be your Kaba, Truth your spiritual guide, and good deeds your prayer and chant. Let your rosary be the one is pleasing to His Will. O Nanak, God shall preserve your honor.  || 1 ||  To take what rightfully belongs to another is like aMuslim eating pork, or a Hindu eating beef. Our Guru, our Spiritual Guide, stands by us, if we do not eat those carcasses. By mere talk, people do not earn passage to Heaven. Salvation comes only from the practice of Truth. By adding spices to forbidden foods, they are not made acceptable. O Nanak, from false talk, only falsehood is obtained.  || 2 ||  First Mehl:  There are five prayers and five times of day for the prayer; the five have five names. Let the first be truthfulness, the second honest living, and the third charity in the Name of God. Let the fourth be good will for all, and the fifth be the praise of the Lord. Repeat the prayer of good deeds, and then, you may call yourself a true Muslim. O Nanak, the false obtain falsehood, and only falsehood alone || 3 ||”[5]

The Qazi asked Guru Nanak Dev whether he was a Hindus or a Muslims. Guru Nanak Dev  replied: “I am common to both.” “In case you are common to both them then come with us to offer Namaaz”. Qazi said.  The Guru went along. Everyone stood in the Mosque in order to offer Namaaz & started offering prayers  Guru Nanak Devkept standing straight. After offering Namaaz, Qazi asked angrily,“Why didn’t you offer prayers?” Guru Ji said, “Did you?”Qazi said, “Yes. Every one has seen me offering Namaz.” “But I found your attention at yoouur house worrying for the new born to your mare. You were worriedto keep her off the well,” Guru nanak said. Surprised he bowed to the Guru. Nawabasked, “You sould have joined me then.” But you were not here. You were busy haggling for horses in Qandhar.” Nawab was flabbergasted at Guru Nanak’s reply. Everybody bowed to Guru Ji’s feet in adoration & said: “Nanak is a saint with divine powers. He knows every one’s mind.”Nawab declared: “After seeing this nothing more is needed to be enquired.”  Everyone bowed towards Guru Nanak. Guru Nanak recited:

‘Make good deeds the soil, and let the Word be the seed;

Irrigate it continually with the water of Truth.

Become such a farmer, and faith will sprout.

This brings knowledge of heaven and hell, you fool!  || 1 || 

Do not think that your Husband Lord can be obtained by mere words.

You are wasting this life in the pride of wealth and the splendor of beauty.  || 1 ||  Pause  || 

The defect of the body which leads to sin is the mud puddle,

and this mind is the frog, which does not appreciate the lotus flower at all.

The bumble bee is the teacher who continually teaches the lesson.

But how can one understand, unless one is made to understand?  || 2 || 

This speaking and listening is like the song of the wind,

for those whose minds are colored by the love of worldly attachments (Maya).

The Grace of the Master is bestowed upon those who meditate on Him alone.

They are pleasing to His Heart.  || 3 || 

You may observe the thirty fasts, and say the five prayers each day,

but ‘Satan’ can undo them. Says Nanak, you will have to walk on the Path of Death,

so why do you bother to collect wealth and property?  || 4 || 27||[6]

  Hearing the hymn, Nawab again fell at Guru Nanak’s feet. The people around said,”God speaks in Guru Nanak.” Khan said, “My kingdom, wealth and property is all yours.” Guru Nanak said, “It is all yours. I do noit need anything material. I hand over what was with me and I shall be leaving now.” He asked Mardana to play rebec and sang a hymn testifying this:

This body fabric is conditioned by Maya, O beloved; this cloth is dyed in greed.My Husband Lord is not pleased by these clothes, O Beloved; how can the soul-bride go to His bed?  || 1 || I am a sacrifice, O Dear Merciful Lord; I am a sacrifice to You. I am a sacrifice to those who take to Your Name. Unto those who take to Your Name, I am forever a sacrifice. || 1 ||  Pause  || 

If the body becomes the dyer’s vat, O Beloved, and the Name is placed within it as the dye, and if the Dyer who dyes this cloth is the Lord Master — O, such a color has never been seen before!  || 2 |

Those whose shawls are so dyed, O Beloved, their Husband Lord is always with them. Bless me with the dust of those humble beings, O Dear Lord. Says Nanak, this is my prayer.  || 3 || 

He Himself creates, and He Himself imbues us. He Himself bestows His Glance of Grace. O Nanak, if the soul-bride becomes pleasing to her Husband Lord, He Himself enjoys her. ||4 || 1 || [7] 

  All the present touched Guru Nanak’s feet including all the mendicants. Guru Nanak was very much pleased on them. Guru did not return to the store. Some persons complained that, “Nanak has distributed the goods from stores to the public causing a great loss.” The Nawab did not believe them but got his stores checked to clear general conscience. There was a gain rather than the loss which the nawab offered him to take. Guru Nanak asked these to be distributed among the needy. As the Guru prepared to leave, all Hindus and Muslims bowed to him to see him off. The Nawab and Qazi were also among them. Guru Nanak moved out on his journey along with Mardana.[8]


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## Harry (Mar 8, 2017)

dalvindersingh grewal said:


> As per daily practice Guru Nanak went for a bath in Vein River along with a helper. During bath Guru Nanak got orders from the True Lord to appear before Him. Nanak presented himself before God Who offered him a cup of nectar and ordered: “Nanak! This nectar is the cup of my Name. Drink it.” Guru Nanak obeyed and had the nectar. God was kind: “Nanak! I am with you. My pleasure is on you. Whosoever takes your name will have my pleasure. You go and recite My Name and get the people to recite. Keep unattached from the world. Remain reciting My Name, distributing alms, maintain cleanliness and serve mankind and meditate on Me. I have given you My Name. You do this service only.” …. “Nanak! Whomsoever you bless; they are blessed by Me. On whosoever you are pleased I am pleased too. My Name is Parbrahm Parmesar your name will be Guru Parmeshwar.”.‘_Agia Parmesar ki hoi, jo Nanak Bhagat Hoa tan amrit da katora bhar(i) kar(i) agia naal mili’_[1]….. “Nanak Nirankari, You have been sent to redeem the humanity in this darkage (Kalyug). You must get them remember and meditate on Me so that who unite with Me, can be delivered from all the sins and are relieved from the circle of life and death.”…“Deliver the message of Truth, Unity of God, equality and brotherhood of humanity to one and all. [2] He had orders to deliver the message of truth to the entire universe. He thus had received instructions of ‘seva, simaran and human redemption’, during his enlightenment where now stands Gurudwara Antaryamta Sahib, Sultanpur in Kapurthala Distt.



Could you confirm where this has come from, I find the mention of delivering from sins, the reference to the circle of life and death and reincarnation, which are the subject of debate within SIkhism, if these are God's own words please confirm source.



dalvindersingh grewal said:


> Guru Nanak did not come out from Bein for quite sometime causing the rumours that Guru Nanak has drowned. Guru Nanak’s return surprised all. On his emergence from the river, Guru Nanak called out: “There is no Hindu; no Muslim” People complained to Nawab Daulat Khan, who called Guru Nanak to his office. Guru Nanak declined this by saying that he is not now required to bother for anyone else other than God. At his audacity, people started calling him insane. The Guru asked Mardana to play rebec and sang:



If indeed God is everything and everything is God, surely he would be required to bother for everyone period, can you explain?



dalvindersingh grewal said:


> All the present touched Guru Nanak’s feet including all the mendicants. Guru Nanak was very much pleased on them.



In my mind our first Guru was a humble man untouched by shows of praise and posturing, a man very much on a mission to free the world from superstition and barriers between humankind and God, why would he be pleased that people were touching his feet?



dalvindersingh grewal said:


> All the present touched Guru Nanak’s feet including all the mendicants. Guru Nanak was very much pleased on them. Guru did not return to the store. Some persons complained that, “Nanak has distributed the goods from stores to the public causing a great loss.” The Nawab did not believe them but got his stores checked to clear general conscience. There was a gain rather than the loss which the nawab offered him to take. Guru Nanak asked these to be distributed among the needy. As the Guru prepared to leave, all Hindus and Muslims bowed to him to see him off. The Nawab and Qazi were also among them. Guru Nanak moved out on his journey along with Mardana.[8]



A miracle, but what does it teach us, that if we help others, God will make good the loss? If we give a certain amount to charity, we will get that back together with more, what lesson is learned from this?

Elements of this story fail my own personal litmus test, I would interested in comments, thank you


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## Harry (Mar 8, 2017)

Rajs said:


> Fellow Members,
> 
> What did Guru Nanak mean by his statement "Na Koi Hindu Na Koi Mussalman"?
> 
> ...



in my view he meant that there is only nothing


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## Harry (Mar 8, 2017)

Amardeep said:


> how can u say that sikhi is not a religion when Guru Gobind singh clearly states sikhism as a religion.
> 
> * “I have cherished thee as my Son, and created thee to establish a religion and restrain the world from senseless acts. I stood up, folded my hands, bowed my head and replied,‘Thy religion will prevail in all the world, when it has Thy support’.”
> 
> Guru Gobind Singh - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.*



nothing is clearly stated, this is taken from Bachitar Nanak which is the subject of much controversy regarding authorship


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## Dalvinder Singh Grewal (Mar 9, 2017)

Harry said:


> Could you confirm where this has come from, I find the mention of delivering from sins, the reference to the circle of life and death and reincarnation, which are the subject of debate within SIkhism, if these are God's own words please confirm source.
> If indeed God is everything and everything is God, surely he would be required to bother for everyone period, can you explain?
> In my mind our first Guru was a humble man untouched by shows of praise and posturing, a man very much on a mission to free the world from superstition and barriers between humankind and God, why would he be pleased that people were touching his feet?
> A miracle, but what does it teach us, that if we help others, God will make good the loss? If we give a certain amount to charity, we will get that back together with more, what lesson is learned from this?
> Elements of this story fail my own personal litmus test, I would interested in comments, thank you



There is nothing miracle in Guru Nanak’s pouring more to the poor. Guru Nanak is said to have given in all his own income for the benefit for the poor. It is probable that if he gave extra to some thing he out the money from his pocket. I hope this all clears your doubts.
References are available in ‘Veer Singh Bhai (ed) Puratan Janamsakhi, Bhai Veer Singh Sahit Sadan, Jan 2006, pp.39-49’ and other books. I am giving extract of Puratan janamsakhi as quoted by me and asked for by you.  Answers are available to your questions  on these pages
ਇਕ ਦਿਨ ਆਗਿਆ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਕੀ ਹੋਈ, ਜੋ ਨਿਤਾਪ੍ਰਤਿ ਦਰਿਆਉ ਵੈਂਦਾ ਆਹਾ, ਸੁ ਇਕ ਦਿਨ ਇਕੁ ਖਿਜਮਤਿਦਾਰੁ ਲੇਕਰਿ ਗਇਆ, ਕਪੜੇ ਲਾਹਿ ਖਿਜਮਤਿਦਾਰ ਕੇ ਹਵਾਲੇ ਕੀਤੇ, ਆਪਿ ਨਾਵਣਿ ਪਇਆ। ਜਿਉਂ ਪਇਆ ਤਿਉਂ ਆਗਿਆ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਕੀ ਨਾਲਿ, ਸੇਵਕ ਲੈ ਗਏ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਕੀ। ਸੇਵਕਾਂ ਜਾਇ ਅਰਜ਼ ਕੀਤੀ: ‘ਜੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਾਜਰੁ ਹੈ’। ਤਬਿ ਸਚੀ ਦਰਗਾਹੁ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਹੋਆ, ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਮਿਹਰਬਾਨੂ ਹੋਆ।…..ਆਗਿਆ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਕੀ ਹੋਈ, ਜੋ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਗਤੁ ਹਾਜਰੂ ਹੋਆ, ਤਾਂ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਦਾ ਕਟੋਰਾ ਭਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਆਗਿਆ ਨਾਲ ਮਿਲਿਆ। ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹੋਆ: ‘ਨਾਨਕ! ਇਹੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਮੇਰੇ ਨਾਮ ਕਾ ਪਿਆਲਾ ਹੈ, ਤੂ ਪੀਉ’।  ਤਬ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਸਲੀਮ ਕੀਤੀ, ਪਿਆਲਾ ਪੀਤਾ, ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਮਿਹਰਬਾਨੁ ਹੋਆ: ਨਾਨਕ ਮੈਂ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਲ ਹਾਂ। ਮੈਂ ਤੇਰੇ ਤਾਈਂ ਨਿਹਾਲੁ ਕੀਆ ਹੈ, ਅਰੁ ਜੋ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਉ ਲਵੇਗਾ ਸੋ ਸਭ ਮੈਂ ਨਿਹਾਲੁ ਕੀਤੇ ਹੈਨਿ। ਤੂ ਜਾਇ ਕਰਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿ, ਅਰੁ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਥੀਂ ਭੀ ਜਪਾਇ। ਅਰੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਥੀਂ ਨਿਰਲੇਪi ਰਹੁ। ਨਾਮੁ, ਦਾਨੁ, ਇਸਨਾਨੁ, ਸੇਵਾ, ਸਿਮਰਨ ਵਿਚਿ ਰਹੁ।ਮੈਨ  ਤੇਰੇ ਤਾਈਂ ਅਪਣਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਦੀਆ ਹੈ। ਤੂ ਏਹਾ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਕਰਿ’। ਤਬਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਲਾਮ ਕੀਤਾ, ਖੜਾ ਹੋਆ, ਤਬਿ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਆਇਆ, ਆਗਿਆ ਹੋਈ: ‘ਨਾਨਕ ਮੇਰੇ ਨਾਮ ਦੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਕੈਸੀ ਹੈ? ਖਹੁ। ਤਬ ਬਾਬਾ ਬੋਲਿਆ, ਧੁੰਨਿ ਅਨਹਦੁ ਉਠੀ:
‘ਸਿਰੀ ਰਾਗ ਮਹਲਾ 1।। ਕੋਟਿ ਕੋਟੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਆਰਜਾ…….ਕੇਵਡੁ ਆਖਾ ਨਾਉ।। (ਪੰਨਾ 14)
ਤਬਿ ਉਹੁ ਖਿਜਮਤਦਾਰੁ ਕਪੜਿਆਂ ਉਤੇ ਖੜਾ ਆਹਾ, ਸੋ ਖੜਾ ਖੜਾ ਹੁਟਿ ਗਇਆ। ਓਨਿ ਆਖਿਆ, ਜੋ ‘ਨਾਨਕੁ ਦਰਿਆਇ ਵਿਚ ਪਇਆ ਆਹਾ ਸੋ ਨਿਕਲਿਆ ਨਾਹੀਂ’ …..
ਤਬਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਅਵਾਜ ਹੋਆ ‘ਨਾਨਕ ਮੇਰਾ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਤੇਰੀ ਨਦਰੀ ਆਇਆ ਹੈ, ਤੂ ਮੇਰੇ ਹੁਕਮ ਕੀ ਸਿਫਤਿ ਕਰੁ।ਤਬਿ ਬਾਬਾ ਬੋਲਿਆ, ਧੁਨਿ ਉਠੀ:-
ਰਾਗ ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ 1।। ਸਲੋਕ।। ਆਦਿ ਸਚੁ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਸਚੁ।। ਹੈ ਭੁ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹੋਸੀ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ।।1॥॥ ਜਪੁ ਸੰਪੂਰਣ ਕੀਤਾ।।
ਤਬਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਗਿਆ ਆਈ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹੋਆ: ‘ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਸੁ ਉਪਰਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਨਦਰਿ, ਤਿਸੁ ਉਪਰਿ ਮੇਰੀ ਨਦਰਿ।। ਜਿਸ ਉਪਰਿ ਤੇਰਾ ਕਰਮੁ, ਤਿਸੁ ਉਪਰਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਕਰਮੁ।। ਮੇਰਾ ਨਾਉ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ, ਅਰ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਉਂ ਗੁਰੂ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ’: ਤਬ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਇਆ, ਸਿਰੁਪਾਉ ਦਰਗਾਹੋਂ ਬਾਬੇ ਨੂੰ ਮਿਲਿਆ, ਸਬਦਿ ਧੁਨਿ ਉਠੀ ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਹੋਆ ਮਹਲਾ 1 ਆਰਤੀ: 
ਗਗਨ ਮੈ ਥਾਲੁ….. ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਾਸਾ (ਪੰਨਾ 663)
ਤਬਿ ਆਗਿਆ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਸੇਵਕਾਂ ਨੋ ਹੋਈ ਜੋ ‘ਨਾਨਕ ਕਉ ਉਸੀ ਘਾਟਿ ਪਹੁਚਾਇ ਆਵਹੁ’।

ਤਬ ਫਿਰ ਬਾਬਾ ਚੁਪ ਕਰਿ ਰਹਿਆ।। ਜਾ ਕਛੁ ਬੋਲੇ ਤਾਂ ਏਹੀ ਵਚਨ ਕਹੈ ਜੋ , ਨਾ ਕੋ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਹੈ, ਨਾ ਕੋ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ਹੈ’।…..ਤਬ ਕਾਜੀ ਕਹਿਆ, ‘ਨਾਨਕ! ਤੂ ਜੋ ਕਹਦਾ ਹੈ- ‘ਨਾ ਕੋ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਹੈ, ਨਾ ਕੋ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ਹੈ’- ਸੋ ਤੈਂ ਕਿਆ ਪਾਇਆ ਹੈ?’ ਤਬਿ ਬਾਬੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਲੋਕ, ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝੁ ਵਿਚ: - ਸਲੋਕ ਮ: 1: ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣ ਕਹਾਵਣੁ ਮੁਸਕਲੁ ਜਾ ਹੋਇ ਤਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ…..ਮਿਹਰੰਮਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ।।
ਸਲੋਕ ਮ: 1 ‘ ਮਿਹਰ ਮਸੀਤ ਸਿਦਕੁ ਮੁਸਲਾ ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ।…. ਕੂੜੈ ਕੂੜੀ ਪਾਇ।। (ਪੰਨਾ 140-144)  
ਜਬ ਇਹੁ ਸਲੋਕੁ ਬਾਬੇ ਦਿਤਾ, ਤਬਿ ਕਾਜੀ ਹੈਰਾਨੁ ਹੋਇ ਰਹਿਆ। ਤਬਿ ਖਾਨਿ ਕਹਿਆ, ਇਸ ਕਉ ਪੁਛਣ ਕੀ ਤਕਸੀਰ ਰਹੀ ਨਾਹੀ।‘ ਤਬ ਪੇਸੀ ਕੀ ਨਿਮਾਜ ਕਾ ਵਕਤੁ ਹੋਇਆ, ਸਭ ਉਠਿ ਕਰਿ ਨਿਮਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਣ ਆਏ, ਅਰ ਬਾਬਾ ਭੀ ਨਾਲਿ ਗਇਆ ।
ਜਾ ਬਾਬੇ ਏਹੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੋਲਿਆ, ਤਬਿ ਖਾਨ ਆਇ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਇਆ’। (ਪੰਨਾ 48)
ਤਬਿ ਫਕੀਰਾਂ ਆਇ ਪੈਰ ਚੁਮੈ, ਦਸਤ ਪੰਜਾ ਲੀਆ। ਬਾਬੇ ਦੀ ਬਹੁਤ ਖੁਸੀ ਹੋਈ ਫਕੀਰਾਂ ਉਪਰਿ, ਬਹੁਤ ਮਿਹਟਵਾਨੁ ਹੋਇਆ। (ਪੰਨਾ 49)
There is nothing miracle in Guru Nanak’s pouring more to the poor. Guru Nanak is said to have given in all his own income for the benefit for the poor. It is probable that if he gave extra to some thing he out the money from his pocket. I hope this all clears your doubts.


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## Dalvinder Singh Grewal (Mar 9, 2017)

Harry said:


> nothing is clearly stated, this is taken from Bachitar Nanak which is the subject of much controversy regarding authorship


Sikhism is a way of life to live in the society. Dharam too means a way of life for living in a society


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## Dalvinder Singh Grewal (Mar 10, 2017)

Harry said:


> Could you confirm where this has come from, I find the mention of delivering from sins, the reference to the circle of life and death and reincarnation, which are the subject of debate within SIkhism, if these are God's own words please confirm source.
> 
> 
> Harry said:
> ...


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## chetan sharma (Jun 30, 2018)

Rajs said:


> Fellow Members,
> 
> What did Guru Nanak mean by his statement "Na Koi Hindu Na Koi Mussalman"?
> 
> ...


Brother it’s wrong information.. what you asking is wrong.. this was not said by Guru Nanak Dev ji.. 
this shlok is of Sant. Kabir ji.. 
for more and correct information read Page 1136 of Shri Guru Granth Sahib. 

I don’t know it’s correct to upload this picture but my intention is only to spread Guru’s words .. so that people don’t run agenda on name of teachings of Guru’s


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## Admin (Jun 30, 2018)

Chetan ji, welcome to SPN! 

Its quite refreshing to see someone insisting on contemplating full shabds from SGGS rather than taking one or two lines out context... 

We hope to learn from each other's point of views...

Again, welcome to SPN!


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## sukhsingh (Jul 3, 2018)

In my opinion the shabd speaks for itself.. It means all religious identities are illusory


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## sukhsingh (Jul 3, 2018)

Man made


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## Sikhilove (Jul 8, 2018)

Rajs said:


> Fellow Members,
> 
> What did Guru Nanak mean by his statement "Na Koi Hindu Na Koi Mussalman"?
> 
> ...



Hi

What he meant was that there is only One, which cannot be divided by or confined to any religion or sect. 

Humans have created those  divides and hence we have buried ourselves deeper into the web of maya. 

He was teaching that Truth is One. The rest is an illusion. 

The rest of mool Mantar sums up the rest


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## Tejwant Singh (Jul 8, 2018)

It is interesting to notice how Sikhi is an evolving way of life. The case in point is my own post #6 here.
Guru Nanak never said what the title suggests, "Na Koi Hindu Na koi Mussalman." It is said that Guru Nanak uttered these words after coming out of river Bien after 3 days.
Firstly, the story of Guru Nanak disappearing for 3 days in the river Bien has nothing to do with Sikhi of Guru Nanak then nor Sikhi of Guru Nanak today. Many embellish this story with some kind of yoga technique that made him live for 3 days in the river water without breathing.  This fairy tale is akin to Jesus' resurrection, nothing more.
Now as far as the symbolism of "Na Koi Hindu Na koi Mussalman" is concerned, 1429 angs of the SGGS, our only Guru talk about equality and justice for all, sans exception.


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