# Our Elders Can Be Very Wise, But Why Can They Not Let Go Of The Caste System?



## jasminsandhu (Jun 5, 2010)

It is true our elders can be very wise, but why are they still stuck in thinking the caste system is right? Our Guru's clearly showed us that we are all human beings, and are equal in the eyes of God. So why do we not all see eachother as equal ourselves? I believe it is up to our generation to really have a deep understanding of Sikhi and to make sure we teach this message to as many people as we can. Lets demolish the caste system like our Guru's wanted. After all we're all equal, right?   ikonkaar


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 5, 2010)

IF the elders cant let go....why do the YOUNGSTERS still Hold on to it ?? Afterall..the elders are already having one leg in the river..the YOUNG have the FUTURE in hand....
But i Find that the YOUNG also have this caste ghost riding on their shoulders...read all those JATT WORLD types of Forums...Ramgarriahs Castles, Ravidassis Sansaar, Kamboj Dunia.CHIMBAS take out full page adverts in newspapers..matrimonials of caste ridden people....etc etc...and its the YOUNGSTERS...as the "elders" are not that computer savvy....all the members are actually TEENAGERS...and the STINK OF CASTE from thsie FORUMS...is really stinky...

Its a NEGATION of the SGGS for a sikh to be caste conscious...


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## jasminsandhu (Jun 6, 2010)

You make a very good point, but I can only think that the reason the youth these days do have these types of forums and still hold onto the caste system, must be because they have grown up and been taught by their families. A great deal of famililes still teaching their children to stay away from other castes, and becoming angry if they don't. This was not the message our Guru's taught us. I really think it's time we stopped labelling eachother and to see who the person is underneath. I believe the longer we accept the caste system, the further away we're getting from the TRUE meaning of Sikhi, as it is based on equality for all, no?  :feedback:  ikonkaar


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## roopsidhu (Jun 6, 2010)

SSA,
Yes many youngsters are also stiil crippled by cast sistem. But any how I am very pleased by this thread. I 16 years old coming up with a thread against caste system is very promising. With this type of views from the young generation we can still see aray of hope to end the caste system. Good thinking Jasminaandhu, keep it up
Roopsidhu


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## gursikhi.jeevan (Jun 6, 2010)

Because they accepted Sikhi but not completely. In Sikhi there is no such their is no such thing as caste system. Our guru's completely eliminated it. But the same part is that our elders are not still willing to accept that. Those who study gurbani and aware of it will agree that there is no such thing as caste.


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## roopsidhu (Jun 7, 2010)

SSA,
In gurbani there is no place for the caste system. Lot of people read gurbani but how many % of those understand the message of gurbani. This is not the fault of masses, the fault lies with our preachers, kirtaniyas and kathawachaks ( history orators). Gurbani is being used in brahmanical way, like mantars, and like magic couplets. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji's bani is supposed to be read and understood. Accepting the gurbani is living our lives the way gurbani teaches us. But unfotunatly we just read it but are not implying it in our lives.ਪੜਿਐਮੈਲੁਨਉਤਰੈਪੂਛਹੁਗਿਆਨੀਆਜਾਇ॥੧॥
This filth is not removed by studying. Go ahead, and ask the wise ones.

ਪੜਿਪੜਿਗਡੀਲਦੀਅਹਿਪੜਿਪੜਿਭਰੀਅਹਿਸਾਥ॥
You may read and read loads of books; you may read and study vast multitudes of books
ਪੜਿਪੜਿਬੇੜੀਪਾਈਐਪੜਿਪੜਿਗਡੀਅਹਿਖਾਤ॥
You may read and read boat-loads of books; you may read and read and fill pits with them.

Some of us who try to understand the message of gurbani and are trying to obey gurbani are trying to end the caste system the other lot just read gurbani as mantras. I would again repeat that more than the followers the Preachers are the most responsible ones for the existence of the caste system.

May waheguru give us blessings to understand the real message of gurbani and live our lives as per the orders of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.
Roopsidhu


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## spnadmin (Jun 7, 2010)

Too wonderful for comment! roopsidhu ji it is a great insight that you written.


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## amritbir (Jun 8, 2010)

The criteria of classifying human beings based on caste is what I hate the most. The first thing parents want to know while marrying their child is the caste of the prospective bride or groom. I fail to understand whatever the caste is ...how will that change the person as a human being??? Isn't the person more important ?? After all, marriage is between two persons, who have to live together and support each other. But all other factors are important apart from the persons themselves (and the most important factor is caste)...then they go on to do other useless tasks like matching kundlis and all that trash..sorry to say but this is a fact...


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## jasminsandhu (Jun 8, 2010)

I totally agree with amritbir. I feel as if youth nowadays are pressurised by their parents to make sure they do not hang around with people from other castes especially not marry them, because it would "look bad". I believe that Sikhs have a really tight community everywhere, but when it comes to different castes marrying, other people in the community become quick to judge. Since when did it become alright to judge anybody? In the end Waheguru will judge our actions such as these.  ikonkaar


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## Proud2BeSikh (Feb 3, 2012)

exactly , why cant they let gooo caste is nothing its rubbish , if your sikh you sikh nothing else , it really irritates me how the older generation make it such a big issue like its a crime to mary someone of a different caste , for god sake wake up and listenn to what the gurbani says and follow what the gurus have taught you


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 3, 2012)

Proud2BeSikh said:


> exactly , why cant they let gooo caste is nothing its rubbish , if your sikh you sikh nothing else , it really irritates me how the older generation make it such a big issue like its a crime to mary someone of a different caste , for god sake wake up and listenn to what the gurbani says and follow what the gurus have taught you



I find that MOST ( if not ALL) Caste Based Forums, web sites on the Internet are actually run and maintained by YOUNGSTERS.......and all of these actually promote caste very very openly and even violently..and once again ALL those "disgusting" caste based songs/geets/so called lectures" on You-Tube are aslo all exclusively produced by YOUNGSTERS...all those who make disgusting and vulgar comments on caste songs etc are also youngsters becasue the older generation are not computer savvy and dont know much about the web etc.....so I guess that RIGHT MINDED YOUNGSTERS like "Proudtobesikh" and others having solid faith in SGGS have their work cut out for them...go out there among YOUR PEERS and give them the RIGHT MESSAGE. May the Guru Be WITH YOU .....


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 4, 2012)

WE are taking the problem of CASTE SYSTEM at wrong end.
In Gurbanee ,the caste system has not been rejected..No where in SGGS.
Can any one give a quote from Gurbanee for this confirmation.

In fact Gurbanee messages are giiven common for all CASTE existing at that time.
Gurbanee does make aware about being PROUD for particular Caste.

CASTE is abolished of its own when any Sikh is baptised as Khalsaa.This is the only way to get rid of CASTE SYSTEM. But how many are prepared for this .?

Since we are not considering what should be the right way as established by our 10th NANAK GURU GOBIND SINGH Ji............THe caste system is going to stay as such .

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Proud2BeSikh (Feb 4, 2012)

thanks alot gyani jarnail singh ji , really appreciate it , yeah it is really hard to try an educate people on such issues as there so deeply into it they think its the right thing but its not , this barrier needs to be broken and people really need to learn  and walk on the right path of sikhi    as our  guru gobind singh ji said " manas sabko eke pehchaano " ,


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## Proud2BeSikh (Feb 4, 2012)

but the caste system was made to be abolished thats the reason guru gobind singh ji said women  will have kaur and men will have singh as their last names so that everyone is equal but i have seen situations where a few people are amritdhari's and yet they still believe in caste which is a total shame


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## Luckysingh (Feb 5, 2012)

Proud2BeSikh said:


> but the caste system was made to be abolished thats the reason guru gobind singh ji said women will have kaur and men will have singh as their last names so that everyone is equal but i have seen situations where a few people are amritdhari's and yet they still believe in caste which is a total shame


 
This is an important point about the 'singh' and 'kaur' as surname use that many don't realise.
Now most people can deduce the correct cast from the surname, just as they can guess quite closely the village name from back in Punjab.
The jatts from a certain pind will generally have a certain surname whereas the chamaar will have their own, tharkan their own. lohar theirs and so on.
It becomes easy to deduce their cast by the surname for someone aware, so by abolishing the use of these surnames then in practice we can abolish these cast names.
This is what Guru Gobind Singh Ji had try to do with the use of Singh and Kaur when the Khalsa order was created.

But what did we all do instead? Yes, we all just carried on, but started using Singh and Kaur as middle names.
Just couldn't let go of these cast identifiers, could we?

With the young generation so heavily influenced with cast superiority and degradation it seems like another ongoing problem that will continue.

That said, there are probably more non arranged marriages in this day, the so called love marriages. 
Quite a number of these can be mixed caste.
But, in my experience a third party friend or relative has usually worked out just by reading the family surnames on the wedding invite that it is a 'mixed marriage' before hand and already has this gossip fuel roaring to go!

Maybe if the surname attachments could be stopped and only having Singh and Kaur as prescribed, then in a few generations a trace of cast could be somewhat abolished.

Personally, I feel that as long as these surnames carry on, then sadly so will the castes. 
The youth of today could take control of this if they try.

Waheguru
Luckysingh


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