# Sehajdhari Sikhs



## Kuls1980 (Mar 10, 2009)

Guru fathay 

Can someone please shed some light on this subject? I have read many articles on the net and still don’t understand, What stand is on this subject. And what has SGPC done to change this? 
I'm a mona Sikh, but regarding to some articles, SGPC have announced, any one who has cut hair and so on, is not a Sikh. Is this true?

Please forgive me if I have upset any one.

Fathey


----------



## kds1980 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.*



Kuls1980 said:


> Guru fathay
> 
> Can someone please shed some light on this subject? I have read many articles on the net and still don’t understand, What stand is on this subject. And what has SGPC done to change this?
> I'm a mona Sikh, but regarding to some articles, SGPC have announced, any one who has cut hair and so on, is not a Sikh. Is this true?
> ...



SGPC Run some colleges in which it reserve some seats for sikh students.Recently some students who used to cut their hair went to court and said that they are sehajdhari sikhs
so they are eligible for reservation.Punjab and Haryana High court then asked SGPC about the defination of sikh.At first they submitted affidavit with some provision for sehajdhari sikhs but later many sikh bodies came and forced them to change affidavit.So Now according to SGPC only Keshdhari sikhs are eligible for reservation.BTW there is no change in definatiion of sikh according to Rehat maryada

The Sikh Rehat Maryada Section One | Gateway to Sikhism | Gateway to Sikhism
Chapter I
The Definition of Sikh
Ariticle 1 
Any human being who faithfully believes in
(i) One Immortal Being,
(ii) Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Dev to Guru Gobind Singh,
(iii) The Guru Granth Sahib,
(iv) The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and
(v) the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh.


----------



## Kuls1980 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.*

The Sikh Rehat Maryada Section One | Gateway to Sikhism | Gateway to Sikhism
Chapter I
The Definition of Sikh
Ariticle 1 
Any human being who faithfully believes in
(i) One Immortal Being,
(ii) Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Dev to Guru Gobind Singh,
(iii) The Guru Granth Sahib,
(iv) The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and
(v) the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh. 

So you are saying to be a Sikh you have to follow these 6 steps. Hahaha
Wow, what has become of this faith. The gift Guru Nanak dev ji gave to the world is know in these 6 steps. Brother, if it was that easy to become a Sikh, the Sikh nation would be a nation of saints. 
Sorry for being sarcastic. Sorry to ask another question, where does this rehat maryada come from. I have not read any where in the GGS about these rehat maryada, if that is not the case then you are contradicting yourself on rule no 3 on the list, aren't you?


----------



## Tejwant Singh (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.*



Kuls1980 said:


> Guru fathay
> 
> Can someone please shed some light on this subject? I have read many articles on the net and still don’t understand, What stand is on this subject. And what has SGPC done to change this?
> I'm a mona Sikh, but regarding to some articles, SGPC have announced, any one who has cut hair and so on, is not a Sikh. Is this true?
> ...



Kuls ji

Guru Fateh.

Let us leave SGPC on one side at the moment.

Could please respond the following by filling in the blanks?

I am a mona Sikh because_______________________________________.

It is good  to be a mona Sikh because _______________________________.

And then we can get into constructive  interaction about what Sikhi is all about.


Thanks & regards


Tejwant Singh


----------



## kds1980 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.*



Kuls1980 said:


> The Sikh Rehat Maryada Section One | Gateway to Sikhism | Gateway to Sikhism
> Chapter I
> The Definition of Sikh
> Ariticle 1
> ...



First Try to understand what others are saying then comment.Here I am not saying anything I was just giving you information.I am not the writer of sikh rehat maryada neither
I am any sikh scholar.Here is the thread about the who made the rehat maryada
http://www.sikhism.us/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/5365-a-history-of-sikh-code-conduct.html

If you find anything contradictory in sikhism Go and find some sikh scholar and debate with him/her


----------



## Kuls1980 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.*

Dear Tejwant Singh


Why do you want know, Why i am a mona Sikh and why is it good being a mona Sikh? What do you want me to say? Brother, if you are going to tell me about, this is the only way to become a Sikh and this is our ID. Well that’s your way. You cannot stop me from loving my Guru, the Guru doesn’t belong to you or all the Sikhs in the world. The guru belongs to the universe; the truth belongs to the universe. 

So a question to you, Am I a Sikh?

Fathay


----------



## Kuls1980 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.*



kds1980 said:


> First Try to understand what others are saying then comment.Here I am not saying anything I was just giving you information.I am not the writer of sikh rehat maryada neither
> I am any sikh scholar.Here is the thread about the who made the rehat maryada
> http://www.sikhism.us/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/5365-a-history-of-sikh-code-conduct.html
> 
> If you find anything contradictory in sikhism Go and find some sikh scholar and debate with him/her


 
Mate, what are you trying to tell me that I need to understand? It’s not exactly rocket science that you have written. I not having a debate with you, I asked you about SGPC and the issues regarding sajdhari sikh and you give a passage from the rehayat mryada. 
So who really started this, you or I ? hahah. 

Mate, you really need to take that chill pill.


----------



## kds1980 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.*



Kuls1980 said:


> Mate, what are you trying to tell me that I need to understand? It’s not exactly rocket science that you have written. I not having a debate with you, I asked you about SGPC and the issues regarding sajdhari sikh and you give a passage from the rehayat mryada.
> So who really started this, you or I ? hahah.
> 
> Mate, you really need to take that chill pill.



Then why are you asking me question about rehat maryada.Am I the writer OF Rehat maryada? Neither I said That those who don't follow Rehat are not sikhs.The fact is You just want to make mockery of rehat maryada.BTW I have shown you the thread in which all information of Rehat maryada is given but your quick reply showed me you are not at all interested in reading that thread.


----------



## kds1980 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.*



Kuls1980 said:


> Dear Tejwant Singh
> 
> 
> Why do you want know, Why i am a mona Sikh and why is it good being a mona Sikh? What do you want me to say? Brother, if you are going to tell me about, this is the only way to become a Sikh and this is our ID. Well that’s your way. You cannot stop me from loving my Guru, the Guru doesn’t belong to you or all the Sikhs in the world. The guru belongs to the universe; the truth belongs to the universe.
> ...



Is there anybody here who said you are not sikh?
Is there anybody  here who is stopping you from loving Guru?


----------



## Tejwant Singh (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.*



Kuls1980 said:


> Dear Tejwant Singh
> 
> 
> Why do you want know, Why i am a mona Sikh and why is it good being a mona Sikh? What do you want me to say? Brother, if you are going to tell me about, this is the only way to become a Sikh and this is our ID. Well that’s your way. You cannot stop me from loving my Guru, the Guru doesn’t belong to you or all the Sikhs in the world. The guru belongs to the universe; the truth belongs to the universe.
> ...


 

Kulsi ji,

Guru Fateh.

There is nothing to get defensive about it. You claimed you were a Mona Sikh, not me. 

So what is wrong with your explaining what that means for you as you are the one who is questioning the SGPC rules?

If you know my answer then there is no good asking the question and starting the thread. Let us not jump to conclusions. No one said you do not love your Guru. No one has judged you but unfortunately you have.

Pardon my ignorance but I do not get your reluctance about your own claim. I am not judging you in any way or form. Just want  you to elaborate a bit more about yourself.

Am I missing something here?

Still waiting for you to fill in the blanks and please shed your defensive posture. Sikhi is about openmindedness as far as a dialogue is concerned.


Regards


Tejwant Singh


----------



## Kuls1980 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*

Dear Mr Tejwant Singh

But sorry, what are you going to achieve with me filling in these blanks. Mr Tejwant Singh, what is the purpose of this? I being a Mona Sikh, is my personal journey and no one else can change that. Im not being defensive, but just trying to understand the reason, why with these questions. 
So for your sake here are my answers:

I am a mona Sikh because it's my personal journey towards enlightenment, to find the true essence of true love and to play the game of love.

It is good to be a mona Sikh because,(this answer based on my own opinion), to me it doesn’t matter if you have long hair or have a hair cut. Im just a free bird flying in the sky of love, so in my opinion this question does not make sense, you may need to break it up. There is no single answer to it. 

I hope this has answered your queries.


----------



## Archived_member7 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*

Gur Fateh ,

Defination of a Sehajdhari : Sehaj means gradual Dhari means Dharan karan waala - A person who is following . So Sehaj Dhari is a person who is slowly moving towards the Path of the Guru. 

The Sehajdharis are from non sikh families. They do not have any Sikh background in their family. 

A Mona Sikh can be a person with Sikh parents who have not brought him/her up with cut kesh OR was brought up with uncut kesh how ever due to circumstances has cut his/her kesh. 

HE/SHE is considered 'PATIT' if the person had uncut kesh but later cut it . Such a person will nowhere be considered a SehajDhari.  

I am reposting Bhai Aman Singh ji's post this a hukamnama of Dasve Paadshah Sri Guru GobindSingh ji Maharaj



Nearly 3 years after Baisakhi of 1699 Guru ji wrote letters (hukamnamas to some sahejdhari Sikhs - non amritdhari) on 6 February 1702 signed (characteristic authentic Nissan of tenth Guruji) by Guruji. The following is the text of one of these written to Sikhs presumably in Patna as the letter is preserved there. 

"Ek Oankar Satguru ji. Siri Guru ji di agaya hai Bhai Mihar Chand Karam Chand, Guru rakhega. Guru Guru japna janam saurega. Tusi mera Khalsa ho. Ik sau ik 101) rupiah haathi di phurmais hukam dekhde he sitabee hundee karai bhejni. Ar hor jo kichh Guru ke namit ka hovai so apai lai avna. Hathiar banh ke avgu so nihal hogu. Us di ghaal thai pavagu Guru naal rahgu. Guru ke navit ka hovai so horus kise no nahee dena ar masand, masandiay naal naahee milna, nahee mannanna, Jo Sikh mile so mail laina. Vadheek dikkat naahee karni. Mera hukam hai sangat. Sammat 1758 miti Fago 10, satran Ath 8." 

This is its translation. 

Ek Oankar Satguru ji. This is the command of Siri Guru ji (for) Bhai Mihar Chand and Karam Chand Guru shall protect you. Remember and recite Guru your life shall become worthwhile. YOU ARE MY KHALSA. Your name has been proposed for arranging 101 Rupees for (procuring) an elephant. On seeing this command immediately send a draft, and anything else offered in the name of the Guru, you should bring with you. Those of you who will come adorning weapons shall be blessed, their efforts shall bear fruit and their loyalty to Guru shall be upheld. Anything offered in the name of Guru is not to be handed over to anyone else. And you should not socialise with a Masand or a Masand follower nor honour them. Any Sikh who intends to join (sangat) should be admitted, you should not create too much hinderance. This is my command to the Sangat. Sammat(the Indian Bikrami calendar) 1758 Date Fago(Faggan the last month of the Indian year) 10 (Western calendar 6 February 1702) Lines eight 8. 

This letter is in the Harimandar Sahib Patna (Hukamname edited by Ganda Singh, Hukamnama No. 55, published by Punjabi University Patiala, 1967) 
Very important points that emerge from this Hukamnama are: 

1. This is an actual document signed by tenth Guru ji nearly 3 years after the Baisakhi 1699 rather than some doubtful Rahitnama hence reflecting the actual view or attitude towards the Sikhs to whom letter was wirtten. 

2. The letter was written to two persons who from their name are obviously not Singhs but with 'Chand' surname hence not amritdhari. 

3. The most odd thing is that Guru ji clearly says "Tusi Mera Khalsa Ho" ie You are my Khalsa". This is unusual in the sense that it means Guruji was not reserving the term Khalsa only for Amritdharis but for some Sahejdhari Sikhs as well. 
Source:: Sikhism Philosophy Network http://www.sikhism.us/hard-talk/6231-sehajdhari-khalsa.html

4. Guru ji appears to be more concerned about by-passing the Masands for remitting the offerings directly to Guru ji rather than anything such as urge them to get baptised. 

5. In terms of physical appearance (such as kakkaars etc) again Guruji is more particular about the Sikhs arriving with weapons on their person rather than fomally being baptised and bearing "Singh" surname. 

6. In order to secure against any forgery Guru ji put his characteristic Nissan (usually brief Mool Mantar in his own hand) on the letter and even gave the number of lines of text in the letter as 8 at the end of the letter. This was the usual security arrangement. Comparison with numerous other such letters by Guru ji confirms that this is an authentic letter. 

7. The rigid definition of a Khalsa that we are now given to accept does not seem to apply here. The main criteria for a Khalsa Guru ji appears to be emphasising is not to use the Masand channel to approach Guruji but to have direct connection with Guru ji. Indeed this is what the word "Khalisah" meant in the then existing usage of this term in the Mughal revenue administration of that time. 
Source:: Sikhism Philosophy Network http://www.sikhism.us/showthread.php?t=6231

Similarly there is another letter written to the Sangat in Dhaka (Bangladesh) addressed to Bhai Brindaban and Gulal Chand (ibid. Hukamnama 57) with almost identical text such as "Tusi mera khalsa ho" and commanding again 101 rupees to be arranged and coming with weapons on and not socialising with Masands. 

*Source: Tapoban.org*


----------



## Tejwant Singh (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*



Kuls1980 said:


> Dear Mr Tejwant Singh
> 
> But sorry, what are you going to achieve with me filling in these blanks. Mr Tejwant Singh, what is the purpose of this? I being a Mona Sikh, is my personal journey and no one else can change that. Im not being defensive, but just trying to understand the reason, why with these questions.
> So for your sake here are my answers:
> ...


 
Kul ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for sharing. It was not difficult, was it? 

Did you ever have kesh or never did?

Who made the decision for you not having kesh?

Do your parents and your siblings have Kesh?

Now, please share your views about Sikhi and why keeping Kesh should or should not be the prerequisite?

Once again, only by interacting we can understand Sikhi and its values. I think that is the reason you started the thread for which I am thankful to you.


Tejwant Singh


----------



## Kuls1980 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*



VaheguruSeekr said:


> Kul ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> ...


 

Did you ever have kesh or never did? I never did, i was born with no hair.

Who made the decision for you not having kesh? I was born with it.

Do your parents and your siblings have Kesh? 
No, they were all born with no hair, we are a family of no hair

Does that answer your questions.


----------



## Randip Singh (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*

Let us not bash Mona's.

It is a fact that so called Sehajhdhari's looked after Sikh shrines when Sikhs were hiding in Jungles.

We should be welcoming them into the Sikh fold and encouraging them, not deriding them.:ice:


----------



## Tejwant Singh (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*



Kuls1980 said:


> Did you ever have kesh or never did? I never did, i was born with no hair.
> 
> Who made the decision for you not having kesh? I was born with it.
> 
> ...


 
Kul ji,

Guru Fateh.

Wow! how interesting!

What is the medical term of people like you and your family who are born without hair? 

Do you know how many people in the world are born like that?

Is this phenomena only in your family or  is it also on your mum's and dad's side as well?

Is it due to absence of some specific gene? If it is, can you pls give me its name so I can learn more about it?

I am sure the shampoo manufacturing companies must not be happy with you guys.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh


----------



## Kuls1980 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*



VaheguruSeekr said:


> Kul ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> ...



Tejwant Singh

       Yeah I think it’s a miracle of God. The condition, I really don’t know about the condition, but seems like you have plenty of time on your hands, perhaps you could research this condition for me and let me know what it is. That will be great. Well I don’t know about shampoo manufactures, why do you work for a shampoo company?


----------



## Tejwant Singh (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*



Kuls1980 said:


> Tejwant Singh
> 
> Yeah I think it’s a miracle of God. The condition, I really don’t know about the condition, but seems like you have plenty of time on your hands, perhaps you could research this condition for me and let me know what it is. That will be great. Well I don’t know about shampoo manufactures, why do you work for a shampoo company?


 

Kulsi ji

Guru Fateh.

I apologise if I have offended you in any way about the hairless condition of yourself and your family. Although I fail to understand this unsual phenomena as  God's miracle. Well as Gurbani says," Tera bhana meetha lagei".

I respect your intentions of not sharing how it all happened. I am sorry as  I do not know why this occured so I can not help you researching it and finding out the reason. Only you  with the help of your doctors can do that. No one else.

No, I do not work for any shampoo manufacturing company. It was just to lighten up what you  and your family must be going through, not to mock you nor your family in anyway. I mean having no hair must be painful during the summer time.

I apologise once again if I have hurt yours and your family's feelings in any way or form. It was not my intention.

Good luck in your journey. 

Tejwant Singh


----------



## Archived_Member4 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*



rajkhalsa said:


> Gur Fateh ,
> 
> Defination of a Sehajdhari : Sehaj means gradual Dhari means Dharan karan waala - A person who is following . So Sehaj Dhari is a person who is slowly moving towards the Path of the Guru.
> 
> ...


 
In this Hukam can someone point out where Guru ji uses the word Sejadhari. Fact is the word was not used so no one can say they were Sejadhari Sikhs. If you guys want to keep saying there are Sejadhari Sikhs then presnet Hukams that has the word Sejadhari written in it. Otherwise you are distorting Guru ji's Hukam to fit your teachings.

This Hukam was specific to two Individuals. Guru Sahib has the right to call anyone a Khalsa or not. This Hukam does not show other people that have not taken amrit are also considered Khalsa. All this Hukam shows is that these two individuals were taken as Khalsa for their actions and commitment towards Guru. You cannot take this Hukam and apply it to others who have not taken Amrit and call them Khalsa. If you do then you have taken the position of the Tenth Nanak; you claim to have the status as the tenth Guru.


----------



## Archived_member7 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*

Singh Veerji pls go through the Hukam nama once more :

Ek Oankar Satguru ji. Siri Guru ji di agaya hai Bhai Mihar Chand Karam Chand, Guru rakhega. Guru Guru japna janam saurega. *Tusi mera Khalsa ho*


----------



## Archived_Member4 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*



rajkhalsa said:


> Singh Veerji pls go through the Hukam nama once more :
> 
> Ek Oankar Satguru ji. Siri Guru ji di agaya hai Bhai Mihar Chand Karam Chand, Guru rakhega. Guru Guru japna janam saurega. *Tusi mera Khalsa ho*


 
Yes RajKhalsa ji these two individuals are Khalsa because Guru ji issued a Hukam to these two individuals where Guru ji calls them Khalsa. But you cannot say by this Hukam other individuals who have not taken amrit can be Khalsa. This Hukam is specifically to Bhai Mihar Chand and Karam Chand and no one else. Guru Sahib was specific for a reason here and please don't distort the Hukam to mean something other than it says.

Also it does not say anything about Sehajdari Sikhs, so like I said from the start there is no such thing as Sehajdari Sikh, only Sikh. If you have a Hukam that mentions the word sehajdari then myself and rest of the sangat will like to see it. Otherwise this word is just made up by some people for whatever reasons.


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Mar 11, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*

The word SEHAJ in Gurbani of SGGS is something so very very difficult to attain.....someone with SEHAJ is already close to being a Brahmgyani/Sant/Gurmukh...adn since there are no such humans except the SIKH GURUS....just goes to show the Spiritual Height and stature of a SEHAJDHAREE..as per Gurbani SGGS is....

BUT surprisingly the numbers of "sehajdharees" seem to run into the millions..at last count about 20 million...out of total sikh population of 25 million or so....

A "SIKH" who cuts his hair daily..or trims his beard daily....can hardly be said to be .."slowly....following on the path towards Sikhi... this is more akin to the saying..Nau so chooha kha ke Hajj nu challee...or what the Catholics do..commit sins..and go see the priest every Sunday  and get them..Forgiven..wipe the slate clean..WOW..Sehajdharee Catholics !! just they NEVER use the term..just "catholics"....

Isnt it strange that no other religions has  any such "sehajdharees..." ?? You are either YES or NO...no White or Black...NO...grey....I havent come across a Sehajdharee Muslim..who is slowly following the path to islam..and eating pork.....on a daily basis..YET insisting I am muslim.....only "Sehajdharee Muslim "... I TOO LOVE the PROPHET !! can anybody stop me from loving the Prophet...:welcome: Yes sir..no sehajdharee hindus..christians..p{censored}es..zoroastrians..radhasomis..namdharees..etc etc etc..ONLY SIKHS !!

2. Follow the Path....of the SGGS...as best as you can....only YOU answer to the GURU....let no man hamper your progress...but DONT " play devils advocate" either....:welcome: THE GURU LOVES YOU..and ME..the Mona as well a s the Keshdharee..the Paapee as well as the Saint...A:: humans are Brothers..  SONS/DAUGHTERS :}{}{}f the same PITA....


----------



## sadhu (Mar 11, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*

kuls1980 ji

*You can shave your head, and still you can be a 'SIKH', *
DONT WORRY ABOUT YOUR HAIR TOO MUCH.


----------



## Kuls1980 (Mar 11, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*

Guru Fetha to everyone.

I will like to say thank you to this forum, for answering this question and apologies to everyone if I sounded sarcastic. It just proves me wrong and how opened minded people are. I have never tried to offend any one but if I have, t would like to make an apology. I’m here to be educated. To Kds1980, I apologies, if I made any mockery of any type and thank you for giving me the link and I had some time to look through it last night. Thank you again to everyone. 

Featha and God bless you all.


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Mar 11, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*

KULS1980..thats the Spirit of SPN... glad you got it right.
We are ALL SIKHS....no matter what....the SIKH HIGHWAY is full of all types of vehicles...bullocvk carts..horse carriages..Porches..Feraris..huge 40 wheeler trucks..bicycles..pedestrians..paraplegics on wheelchairs...soem with cut hair..minus hair..cut *****..minus ******..extra ****** etc etc..ALL are SIKHS..equally LOVED by the CREATOR..Manas kee jaat sabh ek pehchanbo..SARBATT DA BHALLA !!!
Carry on...maybe someday the GURU will really meet up with you....
Chardeekalla ALWAYS....VIVA SPN....:happy:


----------



## kds1980 (Mar 11, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*



Kuls1980 said:


> Guru Fetha to everyone.
> 
> I will like to say thank you to this forum, for answering this question and apologies to everyone if I sounded sarcastic. It just proves me wrong and how opened minded people are. I have never tried to offend any one but if I have, t would like to make an apology. I’m here to be educated. To Kds1980, I apologies, if I made any mockery of any type and thank you for giving me the link and I had some time to look through it last night. Thank you again to everyone.
> 
> Featha and God bless you all.



I too want to apologise for rude replies.The problem is that from past 4 years I have seen many people just start a thread not learn or to ask question but Just for time pass.Many people here had has there own agenda and always ask questions Just to annoy posters.


----------



## Kuls1980 (Mar 11, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*

Guru Fetha

Kds1980 ji

I was not here to annoy any one, it was a genuine question but it went all fiery. Don’t get me wrong, I do like to annoy forums by posting stupid threads, this forum is not the place. You have a group of very intelligent people on this forum and their open minds encourage people like me. The link you have sent me is very interesting and educational. Thank you. 

Fetha and God bless.


----------



## spnadmin (Mar 11, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*

kuls ji

I actually think I understand what you are talking about -- thank you for understanding that we are not the same kind of forum.  :welcome:


----------



## Archived_Member4 (Mar 11, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*



Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> The word SEHAJ in Gurbani of SGGS is something so very very difficult to attain.....someone with SEHAJ is already close to being a Brahmgyani/Sant/Gurmukh...adn since there are no such humans except the SIKH GURUS....just goes to show the Spiritual Height and stature of a SEHAJDHAREE..as per Gurbani SGGS is....
> 
> BUT surprisingly the numbers of "sehajdharees" seem to run into the millions..at last count about 20 million...out of total sikh population of 25 million or so....
> 
> ...


 
Gyani ji thanks for the detailed answer.  Your post are always fun to read. Gyani ji I see you have given a reference to Sehaj being in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, can you present the ang or angs where Guru ji speak of Sehaj.  Also if you know where Guru ji uses the word Sehajdhari in Bani or does Guru ji use it all, can you present these ang(s) as well.

Thanks


----------



## Archived_Member4 (Mar 11, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*



Kuls1980 said:


> Guru Fetha
> 
> Kds1980 ji
> 
> ...


 
Kuls ji when I think of sarbatt da bhalla in this situation then that would mean not to annoy any forums. Why would you just specifically think this forum should not be annoyed where its alright to put other forums through annoyance. Sarbatt da bhalla means the well being of everyone. In this case the well being of every forums


----------



## Tejwant Singh (Mar 11, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*



Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> The word SEHAJ in Gurbani of SGGS is something so very very difficult to attain.....someone with SEHAJ is already close to being a Brahmgyani/Sant/Gurmukh...adn since there are no such humans except the SIKH GURUS....just goes to show the Spiritual Height and stature of a SEHAJDHAREE..as per Gurbani SGGS is....
> 
> BUT surprisingly the numbers of "sehajdharees" seem to run into the millions..at last count about 20 million...out of total sikh population of 25 million or so....
> 
> ...


 

Gyani ji, 

Guru Fateh.

Well said as usual.

As you have already mentioned what Sehaj means according to SGGS.. Allow me to add my 2 cent worth to your excellent post.

Sehaj in Sehajdhari is not the same as to attain Sehaj- Gurmat Fulcrum- the prefect balance in the MIRI PIRI way of life.

Sehaj in Sehajdhari means one who is slow to comply. This phrase was coined after Amrit Sanchar in 1699 as not all Sikhs were then ready to take Khandei de Pahul, hoping that all those who have not complied, would in a near future, which they refused and now unfortunately ithas become a title for those who refuse to have a Sikhi baana but claim to keep the Sikhi rehat. Little are they aware that Sikhi is not about any title nor about any destination but just about the journey.

Some of the Sehajdharis also claim to love and respect our first nine Gurus but are very reluctant to accept Guru Gobind Singh ji. It is like loving the roots of the tree but rejecting its fruit. True love towards anyone or anything is to comply with what love demands and is worth changing for.

Is this a paradox or oxy{censored}ic? It's only for the seekers to decide.

One more interesting point to notice is that the jews who have embraced Jesus as their messiah do not call themselves Christians but Messianic Jews which is another interesting term.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


----------



## spnadmin (Mar 11, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*

Tejwant ji

I hope I don't put my foot in my mouth with my reply. Here is where the problem becomes a knotty one for the 20 million or so who are not keshdhari or amritdhari (spelling). My perception is based on reading through the forum for a couple of years.

There are scores and scores of individuals who have been born into Sikh families, including those who were born in the diaspora or even in India, who are now feeling as if the recent federal court case in India is defining who they are. They grow up thinking themselves Sikhs. And read the newspaper to find out they are not considered Sikhs by some measure of debate in India and also in the many forums they belong to.

Their question is genuine -- How could it be that all of a sudden I am not a Sikh? That is what they ask and are perplexed. The legal and political aspects of the question really do not affect Sikhs in the diaspora directly. But...

The context of the question gets lost in the discussion. The determination of Who Is A Sikh has greater bearing in India because religious identity is determined in law and the SGPC was asked to define this for the courts and the legislatures. Most in the diaspora would not be affected. In the diaspora the question has bearing for a different reason. There the question becomes one of whether one will be shunned or blacklisted in gurdwara (for weddings, naming of children, being with sangat). In both cases, diaspora or not, there are many sehajdhari who are the backbone of gurdwara management and seva, and their identity is culturally that of a Sikh.

You know all this. Forgive me. What has happened is that religious, spiritual, political, cultural aspects of the question are now inter-secting and it is confusing many people. I don't know how cthings an ultimately be untangled or resolved.


----------



## Tejwant Singh (Mar 12, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*



aad0002 said:


> Tejwant ji
> 
> I hope I don't put my foot in my mouth with my reply. Here is where the problem becomes a knotty one for the 20 million or so who are not keshdhari or amritdhari (spelling). My perception is based on reading through the forum for a couple of years.
> 
> ...



Antonia ji,
 Guru Fateh.

Interesting pondering thoughts. People who live in India may know better but if I am  not mistaken, Sikhism is not even considered an independent religion but a part of Hinduism in the Indian constitution.

So these disputes in the lower courts are  more for the political reasons which puts the definition of who is a Sikh and  who isn't on the interesting cross roads.

In my opinion this  intricate web of Sikhi,Sikh and Khalsa along with the authority of SGPC and the Jathedars of Takhats who ex-communicate Sikhs without giving it a second thought ala The Catholic Church is the pondering era for all of us who call ourselves Sikhs in different forms.

Just thinking aloud....

Tejwant Singh


----------



## spnadmin (Mar 12, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*

Tejwant ji

It is a pondering era. And very confusing for many people. So many crossroads; so many things pulling away from the center. 

Antonia


----------



## Kuls1980 (Mar 12, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*



Singh said:


> Kuls ji when I think of sarbatt da bhalla in this situation then that would mean not to annoy any forums. Why would you just specifically think this forum should not be annoyed where its alright to put other forums through annoyance. Sarbatt da bhalla means the well being of everyone. In this case the well being of every forums


 
Singh JI

I understand where you are coming from, I fully believe in sarbatt da bhalla but many forums do not understand that. I will only post stupid threads to annoy other forums just to open their eyes to the world and not just blanket them self’s to the real issues. This is an on going argument which is encouraging people to move away from the Sikh dharma. More and more Sikh families in India are converting to Christianity and other faiths. I have nothing against that, each to their own but why are they doing this? I was born in a Sikh family where my ****her is an Amrthdhari Sikh and I’m a mona, but my father has never forced me to grow my hair or force his views on me, he has kindly told me about the Sikh dharma and the understanding of banni. I am no expert on Banni, nor I am an expert on the Sikh dharma but I am here to be educated and certain forums will push you away. So that is when I will post annoying threads. 

In this case, it was a genuine question because this is the only forum where I get good and practical answers to my questions.

In the future I will keep that in mind and think twice before I post any annoying thread on any forum.

I hope I have not offended you.

Fetha and God belss


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Mar 12, 2009)

*Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.*



Singh said:


> Gyani ji thanks for the detailed answer.  Your post are always fun to read. Gyani ji I see you have given a reference to Sehaj being in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, can you present the ang or angs where Guru ji speak of Sehaj.  Also if you know where Guru ji uses the word Sehajdhari in Bani or does Guru ji use it all, can you present these ang(s) as well.
> 
> Thanks



Singh Ji,
Gurfateh ji.

The SEHAJ in Gurbani of SGGS is NOT the "sehaj in ....*sehaj*dharee". This sehaj is  about ......SLOW ADOPTER..One who adopts...changes..slowly....
And naturally therefore there would be no mention of such "sehjadharees" in Gurbani. This is a term for a group that claims it is slowly adopting Sikhi/Gurmatt and WILL become KHALSA..eventually ??? Anyway imho this term is much abused and mostly self-gratyfying..apologetically used by many. Imho..a SIKH shouldnt need to be apologetic..justify himself..be defensive etc...JUST BE WHAT YOU ARE.

2. The Court battle/debate is only applicable to INDIA...as the "definition" of SIKH is solely for the SGPC /DGMC and other Gurdwara Elections...and to gain admission to Schools Colleges run by the SGPC/Gurdwaras. They have decided that a SIKH is ONLY those who are Amrtidharees/Keshadharees. To get admission to their collegs/universities/ or get elcted to positions one has to follow their Guidelines. Its their RIGHT. Period. but that doesnt affect others who are simply SIKHS in their own "Right"...All these can carry on..along the Path..and Guru Ji will receive them as and when HE WILLS.

I have started a New Thread on SEHAJ in Gurbani and SGGS as it is a different concept alltogether. Hopefully I will be able to add Gurbani panktees as I go along..Part One is already Up. Part Two follows shortly.:welcome::happy:


----------

