# Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale - A Sikh Preacher Or A Fake?



## drkhalsa (Sep 18, 2005)

A member of the congregation bows to Ranjeet Singh as he places his hand on her head to 'bless' her.(KP) - This week, a video of Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale has come to light in the public. The young man who at an early age has been renowned as a “Sant” by his followers, became popular for his charisma and attracting Sikhs who in large numbers by preaching Sikhi.








On the stage Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhadiranwale has publicly said that no one should do matha tekh (bow down) to him and only matha tekh to Guru Granth Sahib Ji. He has focused on doing Amrit Parchaar and asking youngsters to give up intoxicants.

Controversy has built around the young Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale who calls himself a “Sant”. His use of Gurbani and style of Kirtan has led to accusations that he sings “Kachee Baanee” (distorted Gurbaani). Furthermore it has been suggested on certain radio stations and by Gurdwara Sahibs that Ranjit Singh is only driven by collecting money for himself and that he is “fake holy man”.

The recent video of Bhai Ranjit Singh shows him wearing a Kalgi (plume) or something similar to it, and sitting on a high seat. On the wall behind him is a large painting of himself, and in front of his seat is a plastic basket. The video shows how Sikhs visiting him put money in the basket, give presents and then matha tekh to him. Bhai Ranjit Singh shows no hesitation when the Sangat matha tekhs to him. He blesses those who bow to him by patting them on the head or back. The video shows how that Ranjit Singh casually sits on his seat and sometimes show little or no interest in those who bow to him with faith and sharda.
We must ask ourselves some hard questions. Firstly, why do some people insist on singing “Dharnaas” or Gurbaani mixed with their own lyrics rather than singing Gurbaani purely without addition or distortion? Is Gurbaani alone not good enough? 

 Secondly, where does the money go, which is collected by the people who call themselves “holy men” and tour America, Canada, and the UK? If these people are coming abroad not to make money but to preach Gurmat, then why do they need to take away thousands and thousands of pounds and dollars raised in Gurdwaras abroad? How much of this money has been used to give bail to a Sikh sister held by Panjab Police and ensure that she doesn’t get raped, tortured and abused while in prison?
Thirdly, how many of these people have raised their voice for the Panth? How many of these “holy men” have used their status, connections, and platform to bring to light Panthic issues and how Sikh men and women are still languishing in Indian jails without trial or case? 

 Let us not blindly follow people and not become dependent on “sants”, “babas” or anyone other than Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The more we become dependent on others, and create middlemen between the relationship of us and Waheguru, the more we get trapped in situations of abuse, distortion and misdirection. Let us wake up as a Panth and unite as one under the umbrella of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and follow the Guru Granth and Guru Panth.

Any body interested in seeing the vedio clips they are available here 

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=301XOZSS

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=42RR2BSJ


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale - A sikh parchaaric or a fake holy man?*

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji KI Fateh.

This man is NO SANT or BABA.
ON a Live Radio Show he blamed all this on the "SANGAT"...snagta forced me to do this and that..blah blah.
TO a question as to WHY do you SING "Kachi bani" ( home made JINGLES similar to the ones in TV Adverts selling coca cola/Colgate /Desi Ghee/Ayurvedic toothpaste etc etc)...WHEN you have 1430 Pages of GURBANI to choose from.....he replied..So and SO SANT JI did it ?? IS it wrong of them ?? Then he GOOFED..he says WHO SAYS any BANI is KACHI. There is NO SUCH THING as Kachi Bani..ALL BANI is PAKEE.
Apparently this SANT BABA JI NEVER read ANAND SAHIB where Guru Amardass Ji declares... SATGUR BINA HOR Kachee bani... kehnedh kacheh, sundeh kacheh, kachee aakh vikhanee" SO "SRI MANN SANT BABA JI CONTRADICTS GURU JI... shamelessly...

Then he alludes to "I have chhaka amrit to LAKHS" ... If He chakaa amrit to LAKHS... WHERE ARE THEY? Most of these FAKE AMRITDHAREES can be seen in the VIDEO BOWING TO HIM, touching His feet, Giving his presents... NOT to GURU GRANTH JI. So whose amrtidharees are they... Sant baba Ji's OWN and NOT GURU's.

He was RUDE to Ex-Jathedar of AKAL TAKHAT Prof. Darshan Singh Ji, who has served the PANTH selflessly for 65 YEARS and is the ONE and ONLY person to RESIGN this Jathedar Post voluntarily... That Radio Show is available at ggsacademy.org.

NO doubt he has charisma (mike jackson style)...and he can be an asset to Sikhe if he does GURMATT PARCHAAR - NO Dhaarna jingles, NO Making the Paunj Piyarae Stand BEHIND HIM while he performs kirtan sitting down (and then refer to them as "POOR PUNJ.. .they have been standing since morning !!! and NO MATHA TAKING to HIM, and drop the SANT/BABA title, no celebrating his birthdays and collecting presents,...Follow AKAL TAKHAT MARYADA.

Jarnail Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Sep 19, 2005)

*Re: 'Sant Baba' Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale - A sikh parchaaric or a fake holy man?*

Wahiguru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Das is interested toknow if this person in question has any linage from any order or sampradaya in past or not.

Das is not saying that people without klinage cannot b e very good Gursikh or preachers rather many of them are even better than that who have linage.

Coming back to this person Das did learnt about him and many other Sants creeping out in rural Punjab.

Das can say that those Sants who live on Chrawa or Puja Ka Dhan or wealth made up of offering and does not use it to uplift poor and Panth and use it for self interest can nver be Sikh even.

In fact such termites have already weaken hinduism a lot.

Like the mony which could have gone to Seva Bharti or Vanvasi Kalyan Parishad or Samiti of Baba Kalyandev etc. goes to  awrong persoan like Asutos Ji or Nirkaris etc.

Das can say that there is no problem to visit this sant but let there be no Charva to this Sant and let mony goes to Pingalwara.

If he is true he will surivie without any charwa or offering and this will mean that he is not depending upon that and if he could not then we may behold that he is fake and no Sikh at all and a persoan who could not sustain himself can nver be a guide to others.

Comong to Kachch Bani factor well we caqn behold that writings of Bhai Nand Lal Singh,Bhai gurdas or Dhadis or Kavishwars may not sing Gurbani but if somepeomes are sung to let people understand Gurmat then it is could be OK but better than singing songs on filmy tunes better is to do Katha or explantion of Gurbani or else we must know that Radhswamis have history of defoming Bani so they will pay for it.

Well das is also intersted to know that weather these sants do correct Katha or bring in mythology totaly absurd without conveying the message which it givces.


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## rosethorne (Sep 19, 2005)

*Re: 'Sant Baba' Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale - A preacher or a fake holyman?*

WJKK
WJKF


I'm fully agree with Gyaniji and Vijadeepji. The person named Sant 
Baba Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale, Is a fake preacher. A Gursikh only 
can be able to know about his identity. Every person attending his
ceremonies are only manmukhs not the gursikhs. One day i have seen 
a video of him. Where he was saying that he had an accident and 
survived miraculously because of the 30 lakh rupees worth vehicle, in
which he was traveling. As per his views that worth of vehicle was 
the only cause of that miraculous save of his life. How a person is 
called Sant or Baba when he is having so faith and in love with 
material. He is the person, You just take a video of him of your 
choice, like living with ME, MY, MYSELF only. He just make 
GURU GRANTH SAHEB JI MAHARAJ as a shield for himself to make fool
of Innoccent Gursikhs.


gauVI guAwryrI mhlw 3 ] mnmuiK sUqw​ mwieAw moih ipAwir ] gurmuiK jwgy gux igAwn bIcwir ] sy jn jwgy ijn nwm ipAwir ]
1] shjy jwgY svY n koie ] pUry gur qy bUJY jnu koie ]1] rhwau ] AsMqu AnwVI kdy n bUJY
] kQnI kry qY mwieAw nwil lUJY ] AMDu AigAwnI kdy n sIJY ]2] iesu jug mih rwm
nwim insqwrw ] ivrlw ko pwey gur sbid vIcwrw ] Awip qrY sgly kul auDwrw ]3]
iesu kiljug mih krm Drmu n koeI ] klI kw jnmu cMfwl kY Gir hoeI ] nwnk nwm ibnw ko
mukiq n hoeI ]4]10]30] page 160

*Surely he is culprit. Making money only by making innoccent people 
fool. He will not be spared even if He is travelling in a vehicle of worth
50 lacs. Beware of GOD.
*


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## rsingh (Oct 2, 2005)

*Re: 'Sant Baba' Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale - A sikh parchaaric or a fake holy man?*



			
				vijaydeep Singh said:
			
		

> Das is interested toknow if this person in question has any linage from any order or sampradaya in past or not.
> 
> Das is not saying that people without klinage cannot b e very good Gursikh or preachers rather many of them are even better than that who have linage.


 
Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh

What does linage give you or anyone else? its saying same thing as caste. just because your born into a certain family or way of life does not mean you will be rich or work in a certain proffesion. same as you will not gain instand Mutie for being born into a certain family!

Its quite funny, well actually sad, two Singhs at my uni both keshadharhi when asked when they will take amrit they replied, they did not need to because there long line of family are amritdharhi, there dad, grandad, great grandad. now tell me how does that help them to become a Gursikh? 

Truth is it does. yes they are lucky they have great role models with in there family but they should follow them and take amrit not think there is no need because they belive they have some kind of "linage."

Linage does not mean anything as far as im oncerned, its about how we us this life and the actions we make.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Oct 2, 2005)

*Re: 'Sant Baba' Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale - A sikh parchaaric or a fake holy man?*

what a lame argument...? Since they are in UNI....didnt their dads and grand dads ever go to school ? I am sure they come from a long line of "school goers"... but they still "need" to go to school ??

Every SIKH...MUST go through the Khanda Batta Da PAHUL ceremony in order to complete the Process of SIKHEE. No body is EXEMPTED...just look at GURU GOBIND RAI JI...inspite of being GURU like the previous ones..Guru nanak ji- Guru Teg Bahadur Ji...HE Knelt before the Panj and took Khande Batte da PAHUL and became GURU GOBIND SINGH JI.

Guru Ji could have said..my NINE GURU Ancesotrs...my "lineage"...exempts me...but HE didint...and showed us by Persoanl Example just how VITAL this Khanda Batted De Pahul is for our completion.

Jarnail Singh


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## waheguru123 (Oct 3, 2005)

i am shocked to see this. he is not a sant. u cannot bow down to any one or anything except from the guru granth sahib:}--}: 
he is a fake


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## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 4, 2005)

Gurfateh

Das must not be taken into wrong thing here linage does not imply to blood or family as Das himself has that linage with hindus.


Das is taking about some other linage.

Well for Example afrter the baptism Das can be from the Liinage of Singhs since Five Belovedones as by some route Amrit has can from that source even if Amrit was made by unbaptised and all other were baptised.


Linage in this context means that is this Sant in question is just raisen from no where or does he has any linage with any order like Nanaksar,Nirmalas,Taksal,Sevapanthis or Rara Sahib etc.

Das was only interseted to know that.We could call it Parampara or tradition or as in Islam Silsila.

Das has writtan this due to the fact that there are many so called Sants in Punjab who do not have any formal educations in traditional seminary and just by there absurded logic preach Sikhism like an animist preach occult.

Best Example for this is to bring Deram of Guru or possesion or Chowki of spirit of Shahhed etc.

Well Guru was Salvaged while alive then how can we have his vision only God knows.

Das is sorry if some misunderstanding is created.

Main reason for Das's asking for linage was that in case say he is using the name of Nanaksar and doing Anti Gurmat things saying that it is there tradition then we can directly ask Nanaksar people that if they are party to it or not.And if not then this guy could be a thug.

Das is repating that there are mnay thugs in Punjab who will say that they are Nihungs or Nirmalas without linage or connection to any order.

Note in future term linage used by Das kindly be tAKEN into the sense like for example das can proximity to a particular order or idealogy.For that meaning we can visit websites of Rara Sahib,Nirmalas or Sevapanthis.

Das can even say for example that linage of S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji is from Prof Gurmukh Singh Ji and S. Bhag Singh Ji Ambala.


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## manbir (Oct 4, 2005)

This person is one of many who are running 'successful business' in the form of deras in Punjab and making fool of rural population of Punjab and earning their livelihood. 
Many of his videos are being shown on the cable TV network. He is unable to do kirtan except for narrating truth less kathas and singing some home made poems passing it as kirtan. To legitimize his show he throws in couple of Gurbani lines here and there. 
I have heard few of his videos and find him a 'pukka thug'. I am not surprised at all by his show rather am appalled at the state of we sikhs who are able to digest such things happening among us.


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## devinesanative (Oct 4, 2005)

Dear Friends,

This Fella is neither a Sant or a Baba , I have discovered some amazing facts about such babas by closing probing them and observing them.

I have come across many such fakesters , who swear that our Gurus Do come in their dreams , or they hear the taps of the horses of Guru Gobind Singh Ji .

if you closely watch such type of fakesters , then you can clearly observe their "Nain Mataka " with the young women sitting before them .

And I have also cured few such fakester . 

The question is that then why people follow them ?

Mostly people are blinded with their own problems , in search of some miracles and quick fix solutions , they believe in them , but these people fail to follow that if in any case their problem gets solved it is their own beliefs which solves the problems not those fake sants or babas.

Wait , I'll come back and write more about these fakester ........


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## Admin (Oct 4, 2005)

Recently, I had the previledge of visiting Amritsar, and i could not book a sarai (restrooms for overnight stay) for stay. So, after failing my luck with sarais maintained by SGPC where seats are reserved for vvips only. i looked for a sarai outside the vicinity of SGPC. After two hours of reserach, i found a place in the sarai just outside the vicinity of Darbar Sahib ji. 

From the window of my room, i was surprised to see a great number of new Sarai being built which apperently were not funded by SGPC. Curiously enough i asked from the manager as to who was maintaining and providing funds to all these sky rocketing Sarais. I was told that these sarais are being maintained by the followers of Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale and all funds are being provided from his dera for further development or the area just outside Darbar Sahib Ji.


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## plamba (Oct 4, 2005)

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

I would like to remind folks that people regularly touched Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale's feet and touched their forehead to the ground in front of him.

Zail Singh touched Bhindranwale's feet at Santokh Singh's funeral at Delhi.

People regularly touched their forehead to the ground in front of Bhindranwale.

I am not willing to accept that Bhindranwale simply tolerated it although he didn't like it. No one would have had the courage to do so if Bhindranwale had made it clear that he didn't like it.

In order to understand this better, let us draw a distinction between touching feet and touching one's forehead to the ground.

In India, touching the feet of an elder is considered nothing more than a sign of respect and is quite prevalent in Sikh families.

However, touching one's forehead to the ground seems to have special significance. I don't know of a prevalent culture amongst Sikhs for showing respect to elders by touching one's forehead to the ground. To the best of my knowledge, the act of touching one's forehead to the ground is, amongst Sikhs, reserved exclusively for showing respect to the Guru Granth.

Puneet Singh Lamba
Boston, MA
http://sikhtimes.com
(339) 221-1561


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## devinesanative (Oct 4, 2005)

We all have almost heard about the following

Entrepreneur
Technopreneur
Webpreneur
Netrepreneur
Infopreneur

So , Here is another new term "RELIGIOPRENEUR" ...............

With the Invention of new technolgies and Media , "Religiopreneur" is Booming profitable industry .............

It does brings Name , Fame and Other things for which these sants or 

babas leave their homes ............ 

The ROI is very High Almost 1000 times , and investment ZERO .


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## drkhalsa (Oct 4, 2005)

> Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
> 
> I would like to remind folks that people regularly touched Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale's feet and touched their forehead to the ground in front of him.
> 
> ...


 
Dear Singh ji


Just like you Baba Rnajit singh also uses the same rational for every thing he does 

1 Dharnava Parnia as they appeal more to rural people to start withaccording to him Sant Jarnail Singh also did  the same thing 
2.According to Baba Ranjit Singh Sant Bhindranwale was the only bhramgyani in recent time in sikh community

Intersting thing is that i listned the disscusion that took place between Baba Ranjit Singh and Prof Darshan Singh ji about the various issues concernibg working of Ranjit Singh and i was amazed to see Prof Darshan Singh ji out of words to answer some of his question which was exactly opposite what i was expecting and may be willing to hear 

http://www.ggsacademy.com/19845/ProfDarshanSinghanddhadrian.mp3

As i am concerned I havent heard a single katha done by Ranjit singh till now so i cant comment on this but offcourse i have listened many kathas of Prof Dharshan Singh ji And they are always full of chardi kala 

Now the point I want to make here is that people are accusing Ranjit singh of taking advantage of poor illitrate rural population of punjab but if iam not wrong he is equally popular in well educated people raised in western world both in england and canada what is the reason for that ?

Forgive me for my lack of knowledge and experience but still i have been active in looking for lathas of various katha kars and still to come across a katha kar who speaks to the masses of rural punjab most katha kar limit themselves to big cities of punjab and uk,usa canada and thats it 
and you can take my word for this one that the way to approch rural masses who have drifted away from sikhi to beas and other respective deras will be totally different from the way mpdern day preacher in sikh community preaches . and I think this the reason some people are looking for hope in Ranjit Singh


Jatinder Singh


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## devinesanative (Oct 4, 2005)

Dear Friend


Being Educated does not means that people are really educated , and being educated is broader term ...........


Here is simple principle ............

If you want to be a Baba or sant ............

First Attract innocent and poor people .............

Make them educated .............

Increase the volume ...............


Now turn your attention to educated people ............


This is pure psychology , philosophy and economics .................


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## bhoolchook (Oct 4, 2005)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. The fact that such looking like Sants are successful in their mission of entertaining the simple-minded rural folks on account of their "ignorance " which is the root cause of fake personalities malighning the masses faith and tempering with the true impact of the Gurbani.I have pointed out a number of times that our so called representatives, Jathedars, Administrators have failed to improve the understanding, logical approach or rational thinking of the masses and there are always easy chances of befooling the simple folks, and the people in general are impressed by the such like Sants who manipulate to perform before the Sangat as per the modern ways of dramas and choreography to achieve their own egoism and of course amassing the donations from the public.Let some one near such Sants challenge them to place before the Sangat the accounts of the amounts collected and how those sums are being utuilised, Our folks are blind believers and cannot dare to challenge and that is why these fake Sants prosper.We must try our utmost to educate the masses, point out true facts and prepare the Sangat to decide and assess as to what is good or bad.And if we cannot do this we would have to bear with these fake, dhongi clowns .It is a history that the intellectuals are not liked, understood or encourage by the clergies, Organisers or those who are at whelm of affairs.Their fate is limited to the comments in such discussion forums only.Please excuse in case these remarks hurts the feelings of other commentators.May Waheguruji bless us all to have some real intellectuals as the decision makers, Administrators and Implementors..


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## drkhalsa (Oct 4, 2005)

> Dear Friend
> 
> 
> Being Educated does not means that people are really educated , and being educated is broader term ...........
> ...


 
Thanks for valuable reply and I agree with you 



> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. The fact that such looking like Sants are successful in their mission of entertaining the simple-minded rural folks on account of their "ignorance " which is the root cause of fake personalities malighning the masses faith and tempering with the true impact of the Gurbani.I have pointed out a number of times that our so called representatives, Jathedars, Administrators have failed to improve the understanding, logical approach or rational thinking of the masses and there are always easy chances of befooling the simple folks, and the people in general are impressed by the such like Sants who manipulate to perform before the Sangat as per the modern ways of dramas and choreography to achieve their own egoism and of course amassing the donations from the public.Let some one near such Sants challenge them to place before the Sangat the accounts of the amounts collected and how those sums are being utuilised, Our folks are blind believers and cannot dare to challenge and that is why these fake Sants prosper.We must try our utmost to educate the masses, point out true facts and prepare the Sangat to decide and assess as to what is good or bad.And if we cannot do this we would have to bear with these fake, dhongi clowns .It is a history that the intellectuals are not liked, understood or encourage by the clergies, Organisers or those who are at whelm of affairs.Their fate is limited to the comments in such discussion forums only.Please excuse in case these remarks hurts the feelings of other commentators.May Waheguruji bless us all to have some real intellectuals as the decision makers, Administrators and Implementors..


 
Dear Singh ji 

Thanks for the reply please dont blame representatives and jathedars as this blame culture is very old in our society and give no real solutions . if you think the todays representatives are not good then we are responsible for that because good people never took a pain to reach the post and when at rare occasion they reach there they quit the post because of some reason ( like Prof Darshan Singh ji )
As for representative as I understand in Sikhism every sikh was meant to be representative so actually we all have failed in our living as a sikh and are responsible for current confusion .


Jatinder Singh


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## rosethorne (Oct 4, 2005)

WJKK
WJKF
Dear Gursikhs, I just want to say that if this kind of Babas are getting popular then it is true failure of ourselves and of our community. What these Babas are trying to get popular is to make fools more fool. Is our SGGSJI Maharaj are not able to answer to ourselves? Are we not litrate to know SSGSJI? Why do we want assistance of Babas To reach Waheguru?
We have enough litracy and SGGSJI are enough capable but we are Fool. Thats why So much of strife is in our lives. Just see that. That is just because of ourselves because we like these Asants.

*Page 870*

RAAG GOND, THE WORD OF THE DEVOTEES. KABEER JEE, FIRST HOUSE: 
ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU: When you meet a Saint, talk to him and listen. Meeting with an unsaintly person, just remain silent. || 1 || O father, if I speak, what words should I utter? Speak such words, by which you may remain absorbed in the Name of the Lord. || 1 || Pause || Speaking with the Saints, one becomes generous. To speak with a fool is to babble uselessly. || 2 || By speaking and only speaking, corruption only increases. If I do not speak, what can the poor wretch do? || 3 || Says Kabeer, the empty pitcher makes noise, but that which is full makes no sound. || 4 || 1 || GOND: When a man dies, he is of no use to anyone. But when an animal dies, it is used in ten ways. || 1 || What do I know, about the state of my karma? What do I know, O Baba? || 1 || Pause || His bones burn, like a bundle of logs; his hair burns like a bale of hay. || 2 || Says Kabeer, the man wakes up, only when the Messenger of Death hits him over the head with his club. || 3 || 2 || GOND: The Celestial Lord is in the Akaashic ethers of the skies, the Celestial Lord is in the nether regions of the underworld; in the four directions, the Celestial Lord is pervading. The Supreme Lord God is forever the source of bliss. When the vessel of the body perishes, the Celestial Lord does not perish. || 1 || I have become sad, wondering where the soul comes from, and where it goes. || 1 || Pause || The body is formed from the union of the five tatvas; but where were the five tatvas created? You say that the soul is tied to its karma, but who gave karma to the body? || 2 || The body is contained in the Lord, and the Lord is contained in the body. He is permeating within all. Says Kabeer, I shall not renounce the Lord's Name. I shall accept whatever happens. || 3 || 3 ||


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## thecoopes (Oct 4, 2005)

Dear friends, to me a cynical Westerner the thought of kneeling to a man who claims some divine recommendation, that gives him or her licence to take money is an anathema.

I see things like this as just another scam; only this one bears greater culpability as they scam people in the area of hope.

Having said that I would add the words of Gamaliel who was a teacher in the time of the Apostles, the rest of the people wanted to put the Apostles to death for daring to speak in the name of God! However this man uttered these sage words to the disbelievers.

Acts 5:35-39.. “Fellow Israelites be careful what you do to these men.. You remember Theudas appeared some time ago, claiming to be somebody great and about 400 people joined him. But he was killed and his followers scattered and his movement died out. After that Judas the Galilean appeared.... drawing a crowed after him, but he also was killed and his followers scattered.. So to I tell you in this case, do not do anything against these men, leave them alone! If what they have planed and done is of human hand then it will disappear, but if it comes from God you cannot possibly defeat it. You could find yourself fighting against God!”

So it goes with this man, god or demon? Time will tell.

Regards

John


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## jsarora (Oct 4, 2005)

*Dharianwale-A sikh preacher or a fake*

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa , Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh:

               Fake “Sants” such as this one “Ranjit Singh” come to forefront because of the attention they get from media.  When he says not to bow before him, it is to promote exact opposite of the same, hiding behind the fake humility. These people know the psychology of a common simple-minded person.  This person implies “See how humble I am, that I do not want you to bow before me, and bow before only SGGS”. Whereas he places him self in a high-seat, surrounded by sevadars, and his own pictures, depicting a holy person of high status, and expects everyone to pay homage to him, giving blessing to all who fill his expectations.

               A great setup to collect money, while sitting pretty.  People who have problems and looking for answers to their problem, seek out such “Babajis” hoping to find bliss. If he blesses every body with an affirmative blessing, statistically there is 50% chance of him being right.  These people would have solved their problems anyway without is blessings. However, now they attribute their success to this “Babaji” and bring in other people looking for a “Babaji”. As for the other 50% who did not get success, will never go back to this “Babaji” and will seek some other “Babaji”.

               As for reciting the Kachi Bani, this is neither the first time nor the last time in the Sikh history. Fake “sants” like these have existed for centuries and they feed on the fears deeply rooted in the psyche of the people. 

               What can we do about it? Probably nothing. Ignore them, and let their cult die a natural death, instead of bringing them to media front and making them in to something of a celebrity they are not.

               Case in point is of British Author “Salman Rushdie”. Nobody knew about this guy until Muslim Clerics raised his status to a celebrity by issuing a fatwa on him.[/FONT]


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## Arvind (Oct 5, 2005)

I would like to say in this context:

Anyone who brings you closer to Guru, does Vichar about Guru, is a Sikh worth immense respect.
Someone who is self centered, talking with whom doesnt create a vibe of Guru-Vichar, could be easily ignored.

About Ranjit Singh, I have observed in his CDs, that sangat in his dharna gets into Vairaag easily, and lakhs of people have turned towards Guru. That s a commendable achievement.

Regards.


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## Admin (Oct 8, 2005)

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]*MP3 of a Debate: Prof Darshan Singh vs Bhai Ranjeet Singh*[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.ggsacademy.com/19845/ProfDarshanSinghanddhadrian.mp3
[/FONT]


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## drkhalsa (Oct 8, 2005)

Dear Khalsa ji

I got a chance to listen to katha smagam done by baba Ranjit Singh 
I want share my experience 
In his katha he touched all the important points that we usually disscus here in forums like 

1 The only guru for sikhs is Sri Guru Granth Sahib
2 The very important issue of alcohol intoxication in sikhs ans even sale of Alcohol in Holy Cties of Amritsar And Fatehgarh Sahib
3 Current confusion in community about various different Maryada prevalent currently
4 Various deras in punjab which are run by various self styled Gurus who take sikhs away fron gurmat

Any body who wants to comment on this. i would request first to listen to one of the diwan and then comment 
dont just go by what people say here is online vedios available 

*http://parmeshardwar.com/onkirtan.asp*

as for me it was very good experience listening to him now whether he has khot ( falsehood) in disguise this only Akal Purakh knows better but after hearing him what I felt is  hope for our community in days to come

May Akal Purakh Guide us all

Jatinder Singh


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## devinesanative (Oct 8, 2005)

Dear Scholars and Friends

I have heard the  Debate carefully and have found some amazing facts .............

Will Post the Comments Soon as it will take time in writing ............


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## devinesanative (Oct 9, 2005)

Dear Scholars and Friends


Before I post the Comments on the Debate , After carefully listening to the Debate some of the questions have popped in my mind .

1 ) Is organising Akhand Path is the only solution to every problem ?

2) If it was so then Why Guru Gobind Singh Ji , Took Arms and fought against the Muslims , he would have politely advised the Kasmiri Pandits to organize Akhand Path and everything will be solve Automatically.

There are many more questions will post soon ............


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## devinesanative (Oct 9, 2005)

Dear Scholars and Friends


Bhai Ranjit Singh ji , cannot be called as a Guru or a Sant or a Baba , he is more or less a motivator and singer too and has a good public speaking techniques ........


His debate reveals a lot about him and others:

1) A true sant , baba or Guru or whatever you call cannot so Arrogant
2) The way he answered to the Scholars , clearly depicts his Proudnes
3) The way he said "do kahante haziri pari di ya sangat wich" it means whatever he is doing is not from the withing or voluntary , it has become his duty .........

4) The way he says that "Te main Ki banaya" it also a reflects a lot .......
5) The way he says about sangat that "Koi kahinda hai meri baan dukhdi hai " te koi kehenda hai meri lat dukhdi hai " and he prescribes only one thing chhaking Amrit and Akhand Path .......

6) A Clear Frustation can be seen also among the scholars that though they have spent their most of their lives but still they don't have that much fan following .....

7) Those who donate him , they donate him for their publicity , and use him as great markeing tool , As he mentions about "T-series" company .....

The guys at T-series are street smart and have employed marketing experts ..........

This is just a highlight..............

But anyways he is great singer,motivator and orator , but it doesn't means that he is sant or baba.


And the sangat , 90% of the sangat is shaadai , 90% of the sangat is Baba or sant hoppers ........

Whenever a problem occurs , they go to such babas or sants , then these babas and sant force them to chhak amrit ..........

But when the problem does not gets solved ...... after six or 12 months they visit another baba or sant and again that baba or sant says to chhak amrit and this process goes on and on goes ...........

By visiting these such type of babas or sants , it has been observed that many innocent people have become shaaadais , day and night chant the same thing ultimately become Mentally retarded ...........

I have witnessed such shaadais , who have become shaadais after visiting such babas and sants ............


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## waheguru123 (Oct 17, 2005)

wjkk wjkf
if u hav any sites where i can download online kirtan plz pm them. thanks you


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## rosethorne (Oct 18, 2005)

WJKK
WJKF
      Dear Waheeguru123ji, You can download a lot of mp3s from http://www.sonapreet.net .


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## manpreet11sep (Oct 20, 2005)

WJKK
WJKF

well, This is my first post on this site, so a warm greetings to all brothers.... .

I had red this post carefully, and had been visiting to the Baba Ranjit Singh's samagams in delhi from quite some time.....

and I really find somethings that are not right........
but one thing we should consider..........we need to evolve.........my brother had visited to his meeting arranged in somebodies house.....for aashirwaad................(like one in picture)
All these things are not according to sikh rehat maryada.
But if we go to the depth and see the reasons.....we find following things that are arguable
1. Kachi bani (had been started by Dadhi Jathas, adopted by some sants afterwards, In Nanaksar maryada it is common, they told just like daadhis they hav there style of Aradhana)
2. charismatic approach that aatracts to him rather then Guru Granth Sahib.(I think it is need of today specially in villages)
3. Matha tek ..........ceremony whatever.....(I think its more like a meeting but people take it otherwise)

and its advanteges..........
1. Amrit prachar
2. Nasha unmoolan
3. Charismatic approach attracts more youngsters
4. He goes to deepest of villages in punjab, where big raagies and jathas dont go.....
5. His influence on encouraging vigour among youth by telling them truth beind Sant Jarnail Singh Bindrawale
6. His approach to make the sant samaz of sikh dhrama as a single unit with one motive - 'Amrit prachar'

Yet somethings are wrong but instead of critisizing him here or anywhere, i think one should go and talk to Baba Ranjit Singh about this..............if not satisfied........then take action against him...........


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## drkhalsa (Oct 20, 2005)

Dear Manpreet

VWr warm welcome to the forum and very well presented thoughts in your first post 
I agree with you on these points and i tried mentioning them in earlier posts but ou have expresed it in better way 
I have just listened few smagams recordings and I really like the Guy as he fit in very well in current needs of sikh community and in his smagams he disscus and touch that issues which has been ignored or deliberately put aside and no parcharak disscuss them


Jatinder Singh


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## manpreet11sep (Oct 20, 2005)

I hav just finished listening to the radio recording.....................
It was good, BUT several points are missing..............

Prof. Darshan Singh Ji respresent a different background and Baba Ranjit Singh different..............
I am sorry to say but All the person including in the talks........ u can clearly judge their mental state.........they all are well settled, metro people livin and critisizing in comfortable enviornment..........but hav u ever gone to deepest of punjab villages where people less intellect and had completely forget the basic essence of sikhi.......cause 
"SARE GUNI-GYANI TE SHEHRAAN VICH BAITHE NEIN".....including prof. sahib
but this man had taken this apportunity to tell them the essence of sikhi, by showing them the viraat swaroop of
Sikh Dharma, VILLAGE BY VILLAGE, in summer, in winter sometimes even 4 diwaans in a day, Now how will u make a person understand, only by telling him in its own language.........'dhaarna' is not wrong but different type of sangeet not at all 'Nirol kirtan', just like dhaadi jathas. u will amzed to know even Hazuri Raagies of Parmeshawer Dwar are not allowed to do 'dhaarna', they only do nirol kirtan inside gurudwara.
Te ek gal hor
we need not to get involved with any single personlity, i mean anybody, even I had heard something abt prof. sahib from very trusted source.......but no futhur comments....on this, we just need to find our path.....
"Even if a single man in sikh religion u, me, anybody, had reached to the GOD, and is ordered by him to proliferate sikhism.............u can imagine.....wht happen.........
sO...........................
"JAPOH TAAN EKKO NAAMA, AVAR NIRAAFAL KAAMA"

WJKK
WJKF


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## gurpreetsingh (Nov 28, 2005)

Dear All,

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

We should learn the lesson from this site, which direct us to do the right things. We must belive in GURU GRANTH SAHIB only. Not in any SANT or BABA. Mostly I see these SANT/BABA earning through ladies. I mean to say that they can easily get the ladies in their favour. And then ladies get their whole family in their favour. So I appeal to LADIES not to PUSH them in their "CHANGUL". Please faith in our ONLY GURU "GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI"


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 14, 2005)

Gurafeteh

Das confirmed it toady from a Lady who was baptised by the Baba Ji that this Baba Ji are from Nanaksar Liange.

There code of conduct was very strict like not to remove claoth from head during most of the time.Das took it more ritualitics but later thought that that lady so far was more after mony so may be such strict code could help he at least.

But any way Nanaksar people are outshoot of Nirmalas only.

Das also wanted to tell that recently Baba ji had Guru Manyo Granth (behold holy Bok as Guru)conngragation at Faridabad.It had heading.Worship of Akal,Preaching/Pamphlet of holy verse and vision/look of Khalsa.

regarding touching fets in Gurudwaras.
Das saw in Sisganj Sahib that some people were touching feets of Maskeens Ji,who was anyway doing Katha.He realy felt bad but could not do anything as this would have distrupted the flow of thought.

Inspite of all prevention there are turbaned Hindus who are eager to touch the fets without knowing anything.

Das was since long ben instructed to never touch the feet of any one in front of Guru Maharaj.

But people who are Turbaned Hindus or other Sahijdharis etc.
such people use to trouble Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa of Bhindran also.He kept some body gurad who never allowed people to come near him to touch the feets.Them people maight have said that how egoist or Hankari this sant is who is not allowing access of Sangat to himself.

But his way was OK and should be followe dby others.


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## Khalistani (Dec 17, 2005)

I Dont understand why people keep discussing this issue...i dont know if he is a sant or baba or if he's a fake...neither do any of our brothers and sisters. However, if he is a fake then he will suffer the consequences. If he is a fake then when he dies, he will be reincarnated and brought back into this world instead of being in the presence and love of Akal Purkh. The brothers and sisters that do begin to follow him have a conscience of their own and if they do want to follow him then its their choice. If he is true then he is helping them but if he's a fake, then its up 2 them to believe what he says and not what Gurbani says. I myself am a follower of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale and i can say for a fact that he has helped me find Gurbani. Its up to the followers of "Sant Baba" Ranjit Singh to find and understand Gurbani.


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## parminder73 (Mar 29, 2006)

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa
Waheguru ji ki Fateh


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## bss12 (Apr 7, 2006)

trust me people I have a lot of expirenece with saints I have lived with them al my life and let me tell you some of the stuff I have learned an dlisten to this twith an openmind. 

Saints are gods messengers and there are real saints out there. There many fakes out there to and ranjit singh is one of them. A real saint will never sing kachii bani, never have any connection to kam krod lob mo or hankaar. Once u sit by them you will feel like you want to pray and you cannot look into their eyes it is their tap tej. He will know what is on ur mind. But fellow sikhs there are very few real god men i will tell you that. For most of you i sggest reading gurbani a lo. If u are luck y enough u mite come across a real saint and then u will beilive. If u do they can meet u with god very quiclkly instead of going through millions of births juts to be able to see  him. Do not say never matha tek to a saint. There is always one good saint out htere and they have met god but they never say that. The problem is with all the fakes no can really believe in saints anymore. As guru ji jug main uttam kaadian virle kei kei , very few ppl are actaully holy but they are and if you ever meet them u will know just by the way they speak. There voice has rus and it will show it will atract u to listen that only comes with prayer. And if u ever meet a saint like that or just a noraml person, most saints dont tell u what they r, do not hesitate to bow down. 

Fateh Khalsa Ji if u have anything u would like to discuss with me email or reply . I say a lot of contoversial things and i want to know any of our opinions.


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## pso (Apr 8, 2006)

Gurfateh !

After going through a number of replies, I have a few points :
1. If by any chance, He turns out to be a sant, won't the men cursing him shall be prone to punishment as per sukhmani sahib's 13th ashtpadi - sant ki ninda.

2. How come we can say Guru Granth Sahib jee is our supremo if we have not understood - manda jaane aap ko aur bhala sansar, hum nahi change bura nahi koe.

3. The followers of Sant say that baani points - hum santan ki rain pyare hum santan ki sarna, nanak daas ehi sukh maange mo kau kar santan ki dhoore, santo charan hamaro maatha. Who is that sant pointed in these lines ?


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## therebirthofkhalsa (Apr 10, 2006)

Waheguruji Ka Khalsa 
Waheguruji Ki Fateh

I have been reading all post on Ranjit Singh and Im glad to finally hear some sence like in the post of Khalistani and PSO

Only Waheguruji knows the whole truth behind Ranjit Singh. 

Nothing is what it seems, and considering that we see only what we want to see and what we see will be determine by our levels of consciousness.

It some cases it could be truth that he is a fake but it can also be that some are just too  jelous and envious of Ranjit Singh.

How many out there honestly wish to be in his place? lol, I dont, but I would love to be at one of his live kirtans.

 Im new to Sikhism its been 1 year and one of the best things that I found in Sikhism apart from meeting my true Guru is that I found out about Ranjit Singhs Kirtans, I dont understand Punjabi but deep in my heart Im sure I understand. 
Just from listening to his Kirtans I get feelings that I never felt and cant explian in words, but what I hear really inpires me and motivates me and it helps me feel closer to Waheguru, and I get so touched that tears run down my face.

If he is a fake let him be a fake, he is surely a great fake, because what he does and his fakeness realy keeps my faith up and inspires me to do my very best everyday.

PS Could it be that Waheguru is just giving some of us a lesson, that same love and devotion some have for Ranjit, is the same love and devotion we should have for our Guru, If Guruji was been worship as should maybe Ranjit wouldnt be taking or sharing the credits, what if Ranji really earned and is worthy in the eyes of Waheguru to take all that love and devotion.

Please open your eyes, open your hearts, open your selfs.

PEACE AND LOVE

GOD IS LOVE

SAT SRI AKAL

Waheguruji Ka Khalsa
Waheguruji Ki Fateh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Apr 21, 2006)

Gurfateh

Can someone put link t Sant Sahib's website over here.


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## drkhalsa (Apr 21, 2006)

Here is the link Vijaydeep Singh


http://www.parmeshardwar.com/





Jatinder Singh


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## noor_e_khalsa (May 6, 2006)

I think Sikh are having little knowledge of how to recognise a sant... i remember a line from gurbani " GaliN Jina JappmaliaN Lote HAtth Nibagg, O har ke sant na janeae , Banaras ke Thagg "

 1) A person who uses a mala (rosary) to do simran cannot be a sant because a rosary is just like a practice aid  so that we can practice to concentrate on a single thing much like a "walker" that is provided to a child so that he can learn to walk. He who is still at the level of mala cannot be a sant.
2) Our guru ji has picked 31 beautiful Raagas and decorated the gurbani with them. Raag or classical music is for those who are at a higher level of spirituality thats why guru ji insisted of doing kirtan in raagas. A sikh is inherently intellectual. A person who doesn't appreciate good music and raag cannot be close to God.


If sikh could brush up their basics then i am sure no one can fool them. The "amritdhaaris" "churned" out by ranjit singh are having no knowledge of sikhism.. the ladies still have their ears and nose pierced and wear jewelery in them... They are totally ignorant about sikh value of being "Saabat soorat". Whats the use of saying that " i have made such a large number of people to take amrit" when they all are going to perish in a short time. It may not be doing good to those people but surely damaging and diluting reputation of Sikh People and Sikhism. 



			
				drkhalsa said:
			
		

> A member of the congregation bows to Ranjeet Singh as he places his hand on her head to 'bless' her.(KP) - This week, a video of Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale has come to light in the public. The young man who at an early age has been renowned as a “Sant” by his followers, became popular for his charisma and attracting Sikhs who in large numbers by preaching Sikhi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## aussie_sikh (May 7, 2006)

WJKK, 
WJKF!

I was very curious to read the earlier posts on this topic. 

I myself was a big sceptic of Baba Ranjit Singh and saw the video that was put out about him. 

However, a few points. Who made the video? Where they Amritdari Sikhs? *No. *They looked like the kinds of people who cause problems in Gurudwara's all over the world. The kinds of people who insists on having chairs inside the langar hall etc. (you know the type!!)

A few months later, I had the unique chance to go to a program in Rahon (near Nawanshahar, Punjab) when i was in India this year. Although it was cold, there was tens of thousands of people there. And not once did the Baba do anything suggested in the Video.

And then Baba Ranjit Singh came to Australia two weeks ago. There were 9 programs here in Sydney. 

After meeting the Sant personally, I can say that he tried many times to stop people touching his feet etc, but some people do not stop. 

Over 100 people took Amrit here. That is a lot for Australia. (small population of Sikhs)

Perhaps, instead of looking at the one video, and spreading its venomous message, go and meet the Sant at his Dhera near Patiala. Make up your mind then. (it seems most of the posters are foreign know-it-alls)

As for the Katchi Bani argument, one could argue that all katha is katchi bani as the speaker has to talk some dialogue. The Sants greatest gift is being able to teach gurbani to the masses using simpler language. That is not katchi bani. It is more like a translation. 

Another Point (last one) I am not an Amritdari (yet), but how many of the posters are? *How many of the negative posters have taken Amrit and then judged a man based on a propaganda film?*

*WKJK*
*WJKF.*


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (May 8, 2006)

Dear Jio,
Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki Fateh.

When the Video first came out..his chelas tried to DENY, it called it Propoganda film out to defame him..blah blah... Then On the Punjab Radio LIVE TALK between him and Prof Darshan Singh EX-Jathedar Akal Takhat...Ranjit Singh admitted HE Had the VIDEO MADE.
2. He also Admitted live that as a "SANT" he shouldl be aware that GURBANI says MARNA SACH...Death is TRUE..and so a true sant NEVER celebrates his birthdays..quite the opposite he appreciates LIFE and the chance given to Do Simran and DEATH is fast approaching...
3. LIve he also declared the same story you are giivng here..What can I do..these people Forcefully Matha Tek to me..what can I do..They all call me SANT BABA JI..blah blah blah..Prof Sahib Jee just told him... From TODAY DECLARE that " I am Plain RANJIT SINGH"..and any Gurdwara that calls me for Programmes ever calls me or addresses me as SANT/BABA JI..I will tell them...I am just ranjit singh and since you invited "Sant/BabJI ranjit singh"....SORRY i am going back..you wait for the sant/baba to turn up..." HE REFUSED POINT BLANK....??? why ??
4. Then Prof darshan Singh Ji asked him..what about all the HUGE posters and Signboards put up everywhere..outside your dera also..proclaiming SANT/BABA..again he replied..OH those are put up by others..i am not forcing anyone to do that...Can YOU PLEASE ORDER them REMOVED....no lah..people put them up lah..prem of sangat blah blah...
5. KATCHEE BANEE..is NOT "KATHA"..."DIALOGUE"....Katchee BANEE is COUNTERFEIT BANEE that MIMICKS GURBANI....a Song and Dance Jingle....of absolutely NO VALUE..NO RAAG/NO SPIRITUAL VALUE/NO GUIDANCE..and almost always ANTI-GURMATT.

Read the Book Santaan de kautak by S.Singh Sabhraa...this man is proven FRAUD through so many instances...GET him to Have a public Diwan at any place and call this Sabhra..and have a public debate..Sardar Sabhra Challenges ALL FRAUD SANTS to this challenge..NONE has so far accepted..WHY ??? find out by reading the 3 books...

6. The "Amrtidharees" these sants create are THEIR FOLLOWERS..not GURU GRANTH JI....thats why they MATHA TEK to HIM !! They Celebrate their SANT Birthdays, Akal Chalannas..NOT GURPURABS..

7. If this sant is such a goody good parcharak..why not ask him to go visit countries like Indonesia..where the CURRENCY is below INDIAN RUPEE....about ONE MILLION sangat will have to matha tek him 1 Rupiah each...for him to COLLECT just RS 8,000..see whetehr he will GO and whether he  can Collect One Mllion sangat to make it worth his while ?? Such frauds only like to go to Canada UK where 1 UK pound is worth many hundreds of rupees..ask around and see how many "SantsBabas " have visited Indonesia and other poverty ridden countries for Parchaar...??

8 THESE SANTS are the Ones condemned in Gurbani..as Banaras Ke Thuggh... Gurbani declares Sants are so RARE..yet every village in punjab probably has up to FIVE

9. List what have these SANTS achieved for the SIKH KAUM sice they began to appear in 1935--Just One or Two...1985...a few thousand... -ONE or two..then 1992..  COUNTLESS THOUSANDS....like MUSHROOMS after a rain shower !! ADD up the LAKHS of Amrtidharees they claim to have produced.... Every Single INCH of Land in PUNJAB would be Covered by an AMRITDHAREE...but see the reality..every Village only has ONE or TWO Dasatarr wallahs...where are all the Amrtidharees they produce ??

Jarnail Singh


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## ceo_nikka (May 8, 2006)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!!
Waheguru Ji Kee fateh!!!

I went thru the whole chain (just didn't wanted to comment too early  ). But after going thru this I see two groups, one who believe that its absolutly wrong and another one which says nothing wrong if sikhi gets benefitted.

Well friends, first thing first, this person is not like another preacher for villagers. Look at the technology employed, I have been his hugh posters all across punjab. Village folks do not uses websites (atleast not in my village  ). So there is something fishy going on. A massive marketting campaign and placing this individual at center.

So whats wrong?
Placing individuals at helm of affair, gives a wrong impression and message about our relgion per se. All following is for CHARISMA, not for the knowledge. If you closely monitor this from high level, same is going on in Hindus, jainis. Where TV/media need something more then plain kirtan/katha. They need a dedicated viewership. It looks like somebody out there needed some guy who can give them a product which they can sell for quite sometime. It seems this guy won the contest and was put at centerstage. Stories and tales about Sant JI are already out with village folks. may be in another 5 yrs  you will see books published on him.  

He may add value in terms of headcount but is that All we need??

It reminds me of one statement by Maskeen Ji. He said, Sikhs are precious because they are less in number. Like stones you can find everywhere, but diamond is precious, because its rare. So lets try to be *real* diamonds.

Sikhi is based on certain principles. Village folks/city folks alike. The tragedy of our time is that we are void of meaningful leadership. Untill that search for leader is on, such people will keep cropping. I hope Ranjit Singh understand what he is doing and may Waheguru help him in seeing the right path.


Rab Rakha


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## aussie_sikh (May 8, 2006)

Jarnail Singh,

WJKK, WJKF.

Can i please ask if you have met him personally or been to one of his samagams? 
_"Katchee BANEE is COUNTERFEIT BANEE that MIMICKS GURBANI."_

I didn't hear any of this from him.

1. Have you been?
2. Have you seen with your own eyes?
3. Have you heard with your own ears?

It is a particular habit of punjabi's to add 'masala' to any story they pass on. 

Until you have seen/heard with your own eyes, it's not fair to cast judgement.


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## therebirthofkhalsa (May 8, 2006)

ceo_nikka said:
			
		

> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!!
> Waheguru Ji Kee fateh!!!
> 
> I went thru the whole chain (just didn't wanted to comment too early  ). But after going thru this I see two groups, one who believe that its absolutly wrong and another one which says nothing wrong if sikhi gets benefitted.
> ...


 
Waheguruji ka Khalsa 
Waheguruji Ki Fateh

Dear Mr Rakha

I was kinda giving up on posting cause I realise that most people use post to trash others just so they can feel better for been something less than a true Sikh.
I was gona write personaly to you but then I said no, Im fed up with the lies and I got to do something about it in the name of truth. So here is my love to you and others alike.
I consider myself a true Sikh, I defend honor, justice and above all the truth.
Your views dont and cant tell on a global scale what is right or wrong, that is up to Waheguru.
As a Sikh you should learn that if you dont have something good to say about soomeone better say nothing.

About Sikhs needing a leader, thats bull crap (this so I wont use BS)!  Sikhs need TRUTH and what more leader than our TRUE GURU and the Spirit of Khalsa.
Your principles as a so called Sikh are diferent to the ones of other Sikhs dont you know there are levels of consciousness and the only real one behind all this runing the show is Waheguruji.
So I will ask you and all other envious ones, please leave Babaji alone and if you have nothing good to say about him, keep your negativity to yourself.
To you and others hi is an evil sell- out Baba wana be, hey maybe he is but if thats the fact there are many that will love to burn in hell.
Live and let live.
Peace and love be unto all.
yours trully
Talwaar Sing


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## noor_e_khalsa (May 8, 2006)

Bravo Jarnail Singh Ji, i fully agree with you.......



			
				Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
			
		

> Dear Jio,
> Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki Fateh.
> 
> When the Video first came out..his chelas tried to DENY, it called it Propoganda film out to defame him..blah blah... Then On the Punjab Radio LIVE TALK between him and Prof Darshan Singh EX-Jathedar Akal Takhat...Ranjit Singh admitted HE Had the VIDEO MADE.
> ...


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## aussie_sikh (May 8, 2006)

How many sikhs are there in Indonesia?  Not very many. How many are there in Canada, UK, US, Australia?  There are big Sikh communities and big Gurudwara's in those countries, but Indonesia has a small sikh population.

Anyone who makes up their mind about issues without knowing the facts can only be described as ignorant.  

If you went to the Punjab regularly, you would have noticed that there are more sardars than two years ago.

Remember, jealousy is not a virtue.


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## noor_e_khalsa (May 8, 2006)

therebirthofkhalsa said:
			
		

> Waheguruji ka Khalsa
> Waheguruji Ki Fateh
> 
> Dear Mr Rakha
> ...


 
Dear Talwaar Sing Ji
it is not a matter of throwing Bull Crap! on one another but it is a matter of speaking up the truth.... times have changed, earlier the battles were fought with swords and spears and people lost their lives only but today the weapon is pen, and dialogue which is far more dangerous than swords and spears, and people lose their concience, their souls and stick firmly to their body which is going to die eventually..... our guru ji has told us not to threaten anyone but also not to get threatened by anyone..... we need a strong voice to get our words to reach massess in all this hullabaloo.....


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## noor_e_khalsa (May 8, 2006)

aussie_sikh said:
			
		

> How many sikhs are there in Indonesia? Not very many. How many are there in Canada, UK, US, Australia? There are big Sikh communities and big Gurudwara's in those countries, but Indonesia has a small sikh population.
> 
> Anyone who makes up their mind about issues without knowing the facts can only be described as ignorant.
> 
> ...


 
Dear Aussie Sikh
for your kind iniformation, most of our prachaaraks (preachers), good kirtan singers, and granthi s are setteled in countries like UK USA and Canada.... but still the sikh values have not propagated much.... in punjab the situation is even worse.... you rarely find a person with comlete beard.... and sons of the amrtdharees churned out by these "sants" are no where near to sikhism..... also these sants never explain true meaning ande rehat maryada of khalsa.... thats why women folk wear jewelery in ears and noses even after being an Amritdharee..... 
My Guru Ji always advocated quality and not quantity..... and bragging about churning out amritdharees by thousands is no good.....
An ignorant wearing five Kakkaars is not a khalsa..... and a khalsa never needs any mediator other than Guru Granth Sahib Ji to know the righteous path of God..... 
Please test everything you see on the lines of gurmat rather than by the beauty of the scene.
I have seen and heard ranjit singh a number of times and have concluded that he is no more than a good speaker speaking from the text and literature......
One thing more..... why do these Sants need a Sant Samaj to put up their "demands" or Thoughts..... Is "Sant"  anyway related to politics.... come on !! This is sheer idiotic and blasphemous..... All these so called sants are nothing more than heads of some village gurudwaras and their sole aim is to get money of their "deraas" or gurudwaras...... 
Remember the lives of sants like Kabir Ji, Farid Ji, Namdev Ji, Soordaas ji and many more whose teachings you can find in Guru Granth Sahib Ji..... were they living lavish lives? were they having expensive flowing robes? Were they having fastest luxry cars?.... I don't think so....
Think and then act ..... i have posted earlier how to judge a person if he is true sant do have a look at it...


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## manbir (May 8, 2006)

aussie_sikh said:
			
		

> WJKK,
> WJKF!
> 
> I was very curious to read the earlier posts on this topic.
> ...


 
I would suggest everyone to see daily telecast of Ranjit Singh's So called 'Kirtan' on Balle Balle TV Channel. Its being telecarst daily morning.
You wont need too much of inteligence to understand the level of Ranjit Singh's Sikhi knowledge and the type of parchar he is doing.
He is simply adding more 'Bharm' to the population full of Bharms and anti Sikh reets.
Last few of his TV episodes would strengthen the manmat reet of Rakhree among the village folks.


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## manbir (May 8, 2006)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
			
		

> Dear Jio,
> Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki Fateh.
> 
> When the Video first came out..his chelas tried to DENY, it called it Propoganda film out to defame him..blah blah... Then On the Punjab Radio LIVE TALK between him and Prof Darshan Singh EX-Jathedar Akal Takhat...Ranjit Singh admitted HE Had the VIDEO MADE.
> ...


 
The Amritdharees these Sant Babas produce are all fake collection of Data. Majority of these are full of all possible vices. Most of these followers of These Sant Babas are Addicts. In these deras all possible Kukarams are a routine features. I have first hand knowledge of such activities. Majority of the Cholawallas are addicted to one or the other intoxicats. I know it because I happened to treat them for their health related problems.
These San Babas even give full dose of opium products to labourers during construction of the Gurdwaras or their Deras. 
I can bet you on one thing. *'Most of the Gurdwaras in Punjab and negibouring areas made by Sant Babas was done by people with full dose of opium running in their blood stream.'*
One of these Chellas of Sant had a discussion with me and agreed that they could not construct any Deras or Gurdwara without giving intoxicants to those working during construction.


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## vijaydeep Singh (May 8, 2006)

Gurfateh

Das sees him working hard to preach his kind of Sikhi with very innovative ideas.

what we can do is learn this thing from him and teach our kind of Sikhi to masses,instead of just sitting on our PC's and commenting.


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## simpy (May 8, 2006)

vijaydeep Singh said:
			
		

> Gurfateh
> 
> Das sees him working hard to preach his kind of Sikhi with very innovative ideas.
> 
> what we can do is learn this thing from him and teach our kind of Sikhi to masses,instead of just sitting on our PC's and commenting.


 
Respected Veer Vijaydeep Singh Ji,

You are right. We need to convey the correct information to the masses. Anytime somebody says or perform against Reality, politely and fearlessly correct them. IT IS THE NEED OF THE TIME.


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## ceo_nikka (May 8, 2006)

therebirthofkhalsa said:
			
		

> Waheguruji ka Khalsa
> Waheguruji Ki Fateh
> 
> Dear Mr Rakha
> ...


 
Waheguru JI Ka Khalsa!!
Waheguru Ji kee Fateh!!!

Dear Sir,

First of all, "Rab Rakha" is a good wish not my name. 
Secondly I don't remember saying anything which is against Sikhi-wisdom. You may be in love with SantJi, many people are. I belong to patiala, there is whole lot of people over there, who never goes to Gurudwara Sahib but runs to see SantJI. Earlier they started with Cassettes, then came CD and live telecast on local Cable channel. Now its the TV CHannel. All in span on less than a year.

My dear, I accept your BULL CRAP, if thats all you have to give to me. But remember always be ready to face the truth. I don't know where you are from and how closely you understand the demography of Punjab.

Sikh religion (as I know) is about "Naam Jaap" and "Kirat Kar".

If anybody motivate you to do "Naam Jaap" then its good. But you have to be careful that you don't start "Santji Jaap" instead of Waheguru.

Don't have much time to write more. I have to do my "KIRAT".

So think logically. TV Channel, music companies need somebody to bring there sales up and it can be justified by saying that we are helping "Sikhi".

Its an complicated game, with NO ABSOLUTE BLACK and WHITE.

For starters, try listening to Maskeen JI or Jaswant Singh Parwana (from Manji Sahib). You won't see that colorfull show or fan following, but will see real colors of Sikhi.

Thanks for the Bull Crap.

Rab Rakha. Waheguru thodi bhi help kare. Te meree Bhi.
(May GOD Help)


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## therebirthofkhalsa (May 8, 2006)

Ok I hope with this post we would put an end to this nonsence.
Yes I am in-love with Ranjit Singh and that is part of my personal life as is the way I worship GOD and what I believe and dont believe.
I said before that if I dont have something good to say I wont say anything but also I cant help it when im provoked and as bad as it sounds all that comes out of me is the truth, I was blessed with the truth wich sometimes could be a curse or a problem, especially when others cant handle the truth.
So my dear, you must know that I know nothing about punjab and never seen my beloved Ranjit perform live and here is the best part, I dont understand a word he says, well actually I understand words he use like waheguru, sat sangat, langar, aardas, Talwaar, the names of Guruji, bolo, and I get to pick up few things here and there. But the point is that I dont speak or understand gurmuki or punjabi, in my reality its only a mental issue, what I hear my mind dont understand by surely my heart does, and there is a deep spiritual conection with Babaji and I. 
Its sad to say but you remind me of the hindu brahmans that I used to follow when I was a hare krsna. And I can see where your consciousness is just by you refering to Sikhism as a religion.
You got so much to learn if you are a true Sikh, but if your intention is to create confusion and problems and trow dirt, I will tell that it wont work and the time of truth is coming and no one and nothing will be able to hide their true intentions, light will shine in every place where darkness is, so all you liars and trouble makers, prepare for truth, be carefull cause this light it will burn you.  So all you fakes, get real or go back in peace to your braman type life and hindu kind of rituals. In Sikhism there is only room for TRUTH and you, no one and nothing is gona stop this powerful LIGHT to shine.


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## ceo_nikka (May 8, 2006)

I'm extermly sorry Khalsa Saab, if I hurt your feelings in anyway.

They are just views and people can have different views. Kindly do not take anything personal. I usually do not go in "Controversial" section but this one looked inviting.

May Waheguru help me to learn something.


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## tvaprasad (May 10, 2006)

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki Fateh

I understand from the discussion that he is not the real preacher. Now he is coming to Auckland, NZ and inspite of effort of various gursikhs, he will come and do his _samagam_ in Biggest Gurudwara in NZ. We don't know, How do we stop him? 

If sangat wishes to inform something to Gurudwara Sahib management Committee, the mail at 
*jagjinder@orcon.net.nz*


Please do send an email if you think this is gonna help

Gurfateh Ji

Tvaprasad


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## ceo_nikka (May 10, 2006)

tvaprasad said:
			
		

> Waheguru ji ka khalsa
> Waheguru ji ki Fateh
> 
> I understand from the discussion that he is not the real preacher. Now he is coming to Auckland, NZ and inspite of effort of various gursikhs, he will come and do his _samagam_ in Biggest Gurudwara in NZ. We don't know, How do we stop him?
> ...


 
Gurfateh !!!

The discussion here is basically highlighting this trend of baba-culture prevailing in Punjab/other parts of world. But nobody will be able to oppose a person unless something really negative exist. Basically sangat has to apply there own conscience.

Like for example, I remember recent cases of Paniyaare walle baba or Chicago walle Baba. People kept  thronging there deras & samagams untill they were proven otherwise.

So in my personal view, what you expect is what you get. If sangat wants somebody more than a preacher, than thats what they are going to get. Finally sangat has to apply there own mind and draw line on to what is acceptable or non-acceptable from a preacher.

Gurbani has extensively defined "Sant". So anybody even using that word with his name should know what he is doing.
"SABH SIKHAN KO HUKAM HAI GURU MANEYO GRANTH"

PS:Sorry for the negativity, but thats what is happening to Sikhi in Punjab.


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## tvaprasad (May 10, 2006)

ceo_nikka said:
			
		

> Gurfateh !!!
> 
> The discussion here is basically highlighting this trend of baba-culture prevailing in Punjab/other parts of world. But nobody will be able to oppose a person unless something really negative exist. Basically sangat has to apply there own conscience.
> 
> ...


 Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Veer jiyo

Don't worry about negativity but All that Gurus teaching has always emphasised is being in CHAR DI KALA, absolute positive apporoach even in the damn dark age we faced in Sikhi over the centuries. This is what makes a Gursikh different from any ordinary person.

Coming back to topic, Veer jiyo

The easiest way to answer is avoid anwering this and ignoring it. some 15 - 20 years down the line, this baba only would be quoted as a mahaan sant and people won't be able question about his mahanta

this is what has happened over the years and we are now bearing all that. Veer ji, this was the reason Prof Darshan Singh ji did not answer Ranjit Singh's argument that all the earlier so called Saints use to do Dhaarna Keertan.

This problem should be answered instead of ignoring. This is disease and we need to have treatment. May be something like another Singh Sabha Lehar. Till Singh Sabha Lehar, nobody questioned existing Priests and mahants and they distorted Gurbani as well. The same genre people are coming back

So KHALSA JI, PLEASE ANSWER, DON'T IGNORE

Bhul Chuk Maaf!


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## aussie_sikh (May 11, 2006)

tvaprasad said:
			
		

> Waheguru ji ka khalsa
> Waheguru ji ki Fateh
> 
> I understand from the discussion that he is not the real preacher. Now he is coming to Auckland, NZ and inspite of effort of various gursikhs, he will come and do his _samagam_ in Biggest Gurudwara in NZ. We don't know, How do we stop him?
> ...


 
Please see his samagam for yourself - don't make judgements based on other peoples misinformed attitudes.  You never know, you might actually like him.


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## tvaprasad (May 11, 2006)

aussie_sikh said:
			
		

> Please see his samagam for yourself - don't make judgements based on other peoples misinformed attitudes. You never know, you might actually like him.


Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Veer ji

i am sorry if I hurt your sentiments. 
I have seen his DVD, (and please don't mistake me) I wasn't impressed the way he delivers his message enveloped in Dhaarna and kachee bani. Though he says he never sings kachee baani or "nothing is kachee baani". You might have found another distorted argument what people give about Anand Sahib definition of Kachee Baani. But this can't change the fact that anybody who sings distorted version of Gurbani tuks is singing kachee baani. 

if you argue that he is bringing people to Sikhi fold, give me a break! Many other deras like Radhaswami, nirankaris, sacha souda were also doing exactly the same thing, and now you see what they ended up with. 

Veer ji, I would be with you if you can make bhai Ranjeet singh ji agree on few basics. 

1. Sing Nirol Gurbani keertan - Don't give us a lame excuse that people doesn't understand Gurbani. I am not a puran gursikh, but I can assure you that you do ardas to Guru Sahib Ji and read any Shabad any line and you will understand what it means. Gurbani was written in easy language unlike any other religious text in the world, for the common people like me and you only.
Now when you have Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Darpan from Prof. Sahib Singh ji and other Singhs who actually have elaborated the meanings, excuse of not able to understand Gurbani doesn't sound great. Yes, I agree people don't have much time to read and understand, but bhai sahib, Sikhi is not so easy and Gurbani has to be studied. Its like passing exam. if you want to pass exam with out Gurbani study, you won't pass.

2. He should Stop having SANT, BABA prefixes
3. He should stop people touching his feet and bow down in front of you.
Veerji, the argument that he never asks people to do that is bit dodgy. Can you allow anybody to touch his hands, his chest, his head, his dastaar? no . then why Feet, shoes and socks? sorry If I am bit rude, but would you appreciate if people would like to help him while he is changing his clothes? I hope NO.

I do agree that he is good orater, He can be a Good Keertaniya and Good Community preacher as well but for that you will have get fundamental changes. and if he does, nobody in the world can have any objection

Guru ji Says

"GURBANI gaveh Bhaee
oh safal sada sukhdayee"

Bhul chuk maaf


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## aussie_sikh (May 11, 2006)

tvaprasad said:
			
		

> 3. He should stop people touching his feet and bow down in front of you.
> Veerji, the argument that he never asks people to do that is bit dodgy. Can you allow anybody to touch his hands, his chest, his head, his dastaar? no . then why Feet, shoes and socks? sorry If I am bit rude, would you appreciate if people would like to help him while he is changing his clothes? I hope NO.


 
Again, havign seen it here in Australia for 2 weeks, wherever he goes, there is typically a scrum of people around him - asking him questions talking to him etc, so it's nto liek he can see what is really going on around him - what people are doing. In australia, he actually said on stage not to bow to him, but to bow to the Guru Granth Sahib.  At his dhera in punjab, he stands behind a coffee table so people can;t access his feet. 

I can;t see what more he can be reasonably expected to do.  Any suggestions?


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## tvaprasad (May 11, 2006)

aussie_sikh said:
			
		

> Again, havign seen it here in Australia for 2 weeks, wherever he goes, there is typically a scrum of people around him - asking him questions talking to him etc, so it's nto liek he can see what is really going on around him - what people are doing. In australia, he actually said on stage not to bow to him, but to bow to the Guru Granth Sahib. At his dhera in punjab, he stands behind a coffee table so people can;t access his feet.
> 
> I can;t see what more he can be reasonably expected to do. Any suggestions?


Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Veer Ji
Thanks for replying immidiately. Its good to litsen this that he is stopping people from doing this. But veer ji, then why does he allow people to take off his shoes and socks? and this not very old( from his DVD) rather this happened in one of his very recent foreign trips.

Again, I am nobody to suggest. If he is taking that big responsibility of a preacher, he will have to tackle these issues himself. You know what, this all is derived out of Haumey

"Haumey Navey naal virodh hai, duye na vaseh ik Thaye"

Veer ji, our Guru sahib Sri Guru Amardas ji, use to massage feet of sangat coming from long distance in the night, even when he was Guru himself. Nanak has always tought to be NIMANA. I saw Maskeen ji and other Gursikh preachers won't even allow somebody to bring his shoes from Jodakhana. 

I again confirm that I don't have anything against him in person but as far as fundamentals are there he will have to take care of them and then he surely can get what he deserves but only as long as he keeps true Gursikh Rehni Behni

Sorry again if I am sounding rude.


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## aussie_sikh (May 11, 2006)

WJKK WJKF

Are any of these things grounds for banning someone (a sikh) from a gurudwara? What kind of religion would allow people from all caste's religions etc into it's gurudwara, but not a sikh, because they don;t do things exactly to a prescribed method? Fine, don't go to his samagam, but blocking him from coming is a bit wrong.


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## tvaprasad (May 11, 2006)

aussie_sikh said:
			
		

> WJKK WJKF
> 
> Are any of these things grounds for banning someone (a sikh) from a gurudwara? What kind of religion would allow people from all caste's religions etc into it's gurudwara, but not a sikh, because they don;t do things exactly to a prescribed method? Fine, don't go to his samagam, but blocking him from coming is a bit wrong.


Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Veer ji 

You are absolutely correct. We are not and we can not and we should stop anybody to come in Gurudwara Sahib. 

Now, please understand difference between coming to Gurudwara Sahib as a part of sangat and as a preacher.

As a sikh we must allow everyone to come to Gurudwara but we don't/shouldn't allow everybody to preach there.

Veer ji, The day he is fundamentally correct, we would (everybody in the world will) ourselve call him and welcome him.

Even now i am not trying to stop him as I don't have any authority to do so ( sorry if I was sounding so), but definitely we want to give him and sangat a message that Kachee bani is not correct path and we should bow down to no one except Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

"Baani ta kachi Satguru bajho, hor kachee baani
Kehendey kachey, sundey kachey, kachee aakh vakahanni"

I hope It clarifies.


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## manbir (May 12, 2006)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

Dear friends

This so called Sant does Kirtan which is devoid of Gurbani. Now, can someone tell me

*Can there be Kirtan for Sikhs which has no relation with Gurbani ?*

An hour back I was seing this so called Sant's Kirtan on Balle Balle TV. There was no relation of Gurbani with whole of the Kirtan he was doing. 
We must remember that our Guru is Gurbani. Sikhi cannot florish with-out our Guru. These Sants fool around and make fool of innocent Sikh masses with attractive oratory. That is why we find the level of Sikhi in Punjab villages to the extreme bottom. There is no scope of further downgradation. The Amrit Chakao Abhians of these Sants is just a curtain to fool the sangat.


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## manbir (May 12, 2006)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

Dear friends

This so called Sant does Kirtan which is devoid of Gurbani. Now, can someone tell me

*Can there be Kirtan for Sikhs which has no relation with Gurbani ?*

An hour back I was seing this so called Sant's Kirtan on Balle Balle TV. There was no relation of Gurbani with whole of the Kirtan he was doing. 
We must remember that our Guru is Gurbani. Sikhi cannot florish with-out our Guru. These Sants fool around and make fool of innocent Sikh masses with attractive oratory. That is why we find the level of Sikhi in Punjab villages to the extreme bottom. There is no scope of further downgradation. The Amrit Chakao Abhians of these Sants is just a curtain to fool the sangat.


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## SikhUSA (Jun 21, 2006)

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

I feel real SORRY to read all these articles, about Sant Ranjit Singh Ji Dhadrianwale. If all of you looking of bad things in Sant ji, you can find 100000. Even people called Guru Nanak Dev ji as BETAALA ( man of Evils ) and Guru Gobind Singh ji as Khaadku ( Killer of innocent people ). Do you think were / are they right ????  

We all know that the sikh religious is full of plenty of Kurbaani (sacrifice), but why we are still in such a minority, because of the thinking such as you guys have. All Sant ji is trying to do is to encourage people to join Khalsa Family, I happened to watch his 1000s of kirtans, but never heard that he said to follow him, all he says is follow guru granth sahib ji. He is trying to increase Khalsa on the world, but u guys wont let him do this. Shameless to all of us, IF ALL OF YOU HAVE SUCH GOOD KNOWLEDGE OF GURUBANI AND SIKHI, THEN WHY DON’T YOU START KIRTAN, AND DO THE SEWA OF GURU PANTH???? why you guys just sit on your comps and condemn others, who is doing real sewa of Khalsa Panth???. 

By the way DrKhalsa ji, don’t take it personally,but the Kalgi you are talking about is not a kalgi, it’s a Khanda sahib, which is usually worn by Nihang Singhs. And the matha tekna you are talking about, I would say is not bad, because I do matha tekna to my grand father, who gives me knowledge. which is not bad, it is only bad if it is in front of guru Granth Sahib ji. Your children might tekna matha to you.. He is a good priest and good teacher, so whats wrong in that ???

Giani jarnail Singh ji, please don’t take it personally too, but tell me do you ever watched the Dhadi Singhs????  We all know that Guru Gobind Singh ji had lot of Dhadi Jathay in their darbaar. And dhadi singh also do the kirtan same way Sant Dhadrianwale does. I feel SOO SHAME ON YOU, matching sant ji with michel Jackson. Also in one of your written you said he should remove Sant or Baba prefix from his name….. Then how come you have GIANI prefix in your name?? If you are such a vidwan (wise man) why don’t you first look inside of yourself ???

All I would say is, its shame on us, Instead of increasing our Khalsa Family, all of us are just counting his mistakes and bad things on others who are, doing the real sewa of Guru Panth. We all should think ourself, how good sikh we are???? Have we ever praised any single person to Amrit Shakna???? What are we doing?? If all of us are so good in Gurbani and Sikhi, why don’t we do the sewa of Guru Panth??????? why we just sitting on computer and counting the mistakes of Sant ji??? Think Sikh Sangat Ji Think….. 

I beg pardon if I was h{censored}. 
Sangat, Satgur BakhsanHaar.. All we should do is do the real sewa of guru panth, not just condemn people who does the sewa.

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa 
Waheguru Ji ki fateh.


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## manbir (Jun 22, 2006)

If Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale declares himself as a Dhadi and removes his name plate of SANT I am sure people would stop having objections to his Dharam Parchar. Let him call his jatha a Dhadi Jatha. There is hell of a difference between Keertan and Dhadi's poetry. Its so surprising that a person who calls himself a SANT does not understand this simple fact. Bringing Gurbani and Dhadi vars on same platform is nothing but sacreligious. Its still more objectionable because illetrate masss of punjab villages tend to give such peotry status of Gurbani.

Just ponder for a moment and try to find out why this 'Sant Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale' is not capable of doing Keertan of Gurbani. 
There are only Two possibilities - 
1. He does not find Gurbani important in the life of Sikhs.
2. He is not capable of singing Gurbani Shabads


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## drkhalsa (Jun 22, 2006)

> By the way DrKhalsa ji, don’t take it personally,but the Kalgi you are talking about is not a kalgi, it’s a Khanda sahib, which is usually worn by Nihang Singhs. And the matha tekna you are talking about, I would say is not bad, because I do matha tekna to my grand father, who gives me knowledge. which is not bad, it is only bad if it is in front of guru Granth Sahib ji. Your children might tekna matha to you.. He is a good priest and good teacher, so whats wrong in that ???





Dear Friend 



I havent written the above topic it is from the website ( I forgot to mention )
Sorry for the confusion 

About Ranjit Singh , I have nothing against him and I think is doing a good job .I have personally listen to his smagams and it is realy helping some section of Sikh panth 

But I also agree to suggestions of senior member here like Manbir and Giani jarnail singh ( about using SANT prefix and some other minor stuff )
as it will help clearing confusion around Ranjit Singh ji and help in unity of Panth and I believe this is what Ranjit Singh ji himself wants .


Jatinder Singh


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## SikhUSA (Jun 22, 2006)

manbir said:
			
		

> If Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale declares himself as a Dhadi and removes his name plate of SANT I am sure people would stop having objections to his Dharam Parchar. Let him call his jatha a Dhadi Jatha. There is hell of a difference between Keertan and Dhadi's poetry. Its so surprising that a person who calls himself a SANT does not understand this simple fact. Bringing Gurbani and Dhadi vars on same platform is nothing but sacreligious. Its still more objectionable because illetrate masss of punjab villages tend to give such peotry status of Gurbani.
> 
> Just ponder for a moment and try to find out why this 'Sant Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale' is not capable of doing Keertan of Gurbani.
> There are only Two possibilities -
> ...


 
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Sangat, Satgur BakshanHaar,
I beg pardon if I am so h{censored}.

First of all, I happened to watch Sant Dhadrianwale’s 1000s of Kirtans, I never-ever saw or listen that he said I am sant, or I am baba or whatever. This is a designation given to him by people who like his kirtan. In fact all he says is, I am a Charan Dhool (dust of feet) of Sangat. Moreover GuruBani has recognized the name ‘SANT’, a whole astapdi is on this topic in Sukhmani Sahib. After all, Bhai Manbir ji, why are you taking his name so seriously, Why don’t u just listen his kirtan, and try u understand his teachings. What the name matters to you?? 

Please don’t take it personally, but the way you wrote…._ there is a hell difference between kirtan and dhadis… _don’t seems you have enough respect of either one. According to me both are most respectful and both are the ways to wakeup sleeping people. Its not like that, if you are thinking it’s a poetry and it’s a poetry. He never says it’s a poetry, it’s a GuruBani, and I don’t think that any one of Guru Sahib has told that, we have to read GuruBani in a fixed way or accent. We should go for the meaning, not the way of teaching. He is trying to tell people what Guru Ji ki Bani says to us. We should follow the Guru Ji Ki Bani.  And also we know that some Raags can be sing in different ways, why is that? because creators of the raags want them to be simple for people. So that what it is… Sant Ji want every one to understand the GuruBani. 

Please don’t take it personally Bhai Manbir ji. But tell me, If you have such a good knowledge of Dhadis or Kirtan, Why are you just sittin on computer and finding the wrong things in Sant ji. If you find this way so simple, why don’t you start doing this Guru Pant Sewa??? Its easy then said. Even GuruBani says “AAKHAN AUKHA,  SAACHA  NAAM” even GuruBani says that Waheguru Da naam laina, is hardest job. Why don’t you guys understand that??? I would say that, if we cant join him, atleast praise people to do so!!

At last I would say that, we should develop our Pant to a Unit, not like little- little groups. We all know that what happened, past 2 yrs, how people disrespect Guru Grant Sahib Ji’s Parkashs(throw them in waste and all that stuff), Just because they know that if some one would say against this (like Sant DhadrianWale ji) other Sikhs goin to oppose this, and these bad people gonna take credit. So Sikh Sangat we should come up as a Unit. I am not against anyone who is praising people to join the Khalsa Family.  


Sangat Ji, come up and be a UNIT. 

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh.


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## jasravi84 (Jun 22, 2006)

Ms Sikh USA you need to clarify your fundamentals !


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## SikhUSA (Jun 22, 2006)

jasravi84 said:
			
		

> Ms Sikh USA you need to clarify your fundamentals !


 
first of all, I am not Ms, I am Mr Rajvir Brar. Second what you mean by fundamentals ????

Its a talk of Dhadrianwale not on my fundamentals


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## manbir (Jun 23, 2006)

Ranjit Singh Dhadriwale too needs to get his fundamentals clear. 

I would like to humbly submit to SikhUSA (Rajvir Brar) that Dhadriwale or anyone is free to sing Gurbani in any Rag or even without following any Rag, but ( A BIG BUT ) we *should not* allow anyone (Even if he happens to be a true Sant) to Sing Tuk Bandi (Kache Bani) concocted compositions and present it as Gurbani !!!  

What Dhandriwala is doing is he is making cheap quality poems and presenting it as Keertan. 

For Sikhs Keertan can be only of Guru Ke Bani. We cannot follow other religions. We are so lucky to have REAL ORIGINAL bani with us. We donot have to depend on common compositions to express our feelings for Waheguru. We have Bani in its pure form - GURBANI 

All the Amrit of this universe is in Gurbani
Gurbani commands us, advises us and we are to follow it 

We are not to follow bani of any Sant even if he a true Sant



			
				SikhUSA said:
			
		

> First of all, I happened to watch Sant Dhadrianwale’s 1000s of Kirtans, I never-ever saw or listen that he said I am sant, or I am baba or whatever. This is a designation given to him by people who like his kirtan. In fact all he says is, I am a Charan Dhool (dust of feet) of Sangat. .


 

I would request SikhUSA to kindly see the vedio of the debate between Ranjit Singh Dhandriwala and Prof Darshan Singh Ji. 

Have we ever heard anyone calling Prof Darshan Singh Ji as Sant Darshan Singh ?


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## SikhUSA (Jun 23, 2006)

manbir said:
			
		

> Ranjit Singh Dhadriwale too needs to get his fundamentals clear.
> 
> I would like to humbly submit to SikhUSA (Rajvir Brar) that Dhadriwale or anyone is free to sing Gurbani in any Rag or even without following any Rag, but ( A BIG BUT ) we *should not* allow anyone (Even if he happens to be a true Sant) to Sing Tuk Bandi (Kache Bani) concocted compositions and present it as Gurbani !!!
> 
> ...


 
WaheGuru Ji ka Khalsa
WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh

Sangat, Satgur BakshanHaar

SatShri Akaal Manbir ji, I beg a pardon before I start, but I see no logic in your argument. In your previous written you said, If Sant Dhadrianwale was a dhadhi, you would not have any objection, But do you know that Dhadis also present Gurubani along with their own made composition. So why not Sant Dhadrianwale?? and the TukBandi or Kachi Bani, are the fake words there is no Kachi Bani in this world, Guru ji Ki Baani is Jugo Jug Atal ( which can not be changed). He is doing kirtan and kirtan is not GURUBAANI, they both are two different fields. GuruBani is our Guru and Kirtan, Dhadi War, Dhaarna are all, way to meet Guru. It seems to me that you just don’t have any reason, or any strong point.

 One more thing I would like to mentions is, We know that all ragis which do kirtan in darbar sahib or any Gurudwaras, do not use the exect Gurubani, they also have their own compositions, I am giving a couple of example of kirtan wording by Bhai Ravinder Singh ji (head Ragi of Darbar Sahib, Amritsar):-
1.) HarHat bhi tuu tuu karay
2.) Kaali Koel tu Kit gun kaali
3.) Har jio, Nimaanya tu maan
Or you can watch his any of his kirtans, I guess 98% are his own compositions. So what would you say, he should stop kirtan?? So in this way, no one can do the kirtan, and how we all gona take the kirtan ras??? which is a mandatory part of a gursikh life. 

Bhai Manbir ji, I wold say you should start watching the kirtan of sant dhadrianwale, and feel into it, then you gonna feel how sweet it is. Don’t go after his prefix, or his way of teaching. It doesn’t matter. Only thing which matters is, at the end whom we are attaching to, and that is Khalsa Family, and Guru Grant Sahib. And that is all sant dhadrianwale’s motive. 

All we should do is to praise people to be Sikhs and join the Khalsa family,  and help the people who are doing this.


I beg pardon for Galti BhulChuck

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa
WaheGuru Ji ki fateh


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## manbir (Jun 24, 2006)

SikhUSA said:
			
		

> WaheGuru Ji ka Khalsa
> WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh
> 
> Sangat, Satgur BakshanHaar
> ...


 
Gurfateh

Respected SinkhUSA, kindly get your facts corrected. Those are the Gurbani Shabads sung by Bhai Ravinder Singh ji in the Darbar Sahib. 
I am sure no one would dare to allow Kachi bani to be sung in Darbar Sahib. 

How come Ranjit Singh Dhadriawale has not tried his version of Keertan at Harimandar Sahib ?

Gurfateh to all

For Kind Attention SikhUSA 

The Keeratan you mentioned by Bhai Ravinder Singh ji at Darbar Sahib Amritsar is Pure Gurbani.

rwgu sUhI bwxI syK PrId jI kI ]
qip qip luih luih hwQ mrorau ] bwvil hoeI so shu lorau ] 
qY sih mn mih kIAw rosu ] muJu Avgn sh nwhI dosu ]1] qY swihb kI mY swr n jwnI ] jobnu 
Koie pwCY pCuqwnI ]1] rhwau ] *kwlI koiel qU ikq gun kwlI* ] Apny pRIqm ky hau ibrhY 
jwlI ] iprih ibhUn kqih suKu pwey ] jw hoie ik®pwlu qw pRBU imlwey ]2] ivDx KUhI muMD 
iekylI ] nw ko swQI nw ko bylI ] kir ikrpw pRiB swDsMig mylI ] jw iPir dyKw qw myrw Alhu 
bylI ]3] vwt hmwrI KrI aufIxI ] KMinAhu iqKI bhuqu ipeIxI ] ausu aUpir hY mwrgu 
myrw ] syK PrIdw pMQu sm@wir svyrw ]4]1]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

soriT mhlw 5 ]
geI bhoVu bMdI CoVu inrMkwru duKdwrI ] krmu n jwxw Drmu n jwxw loBI 
mwieAwDwrI ] nwmu pirE Bgqu goivMd kw ieh rwKhu pYj qumwrI ]1] *hir jIau inmwixAw qU *
*mwxu *] incIijAw cIj kry myrw goivMdu qyrI kudriq kau kurbwxu ] rhwau ] jYsw bwlku Bwie 
suBweI lK AprwD kmwvY ] kir aupdysu iJVky bhu BwqI bhuiV ipqw gil lwvY ] ipCly 
Aaugux bKis ley pRBu AwgY mwrig pwvY ]2] hir AMqrjwmI sB ibiD jwxY qw iksu pih 
AwiK suxweIAY ] khxY kQin n BIjY goibMdu hir BwvY pYj rKweIAY ] Avr Et mY sglI dyKI 
iek qyrI Et rhweIAY ]3] hoie dieAwlu ikrpwlu pRBu Twkuru Awpy suxY bynµqI ] pUrw sqguru 
myil imlwvY sB cUkY mn kI icMqI ] hir hir nwmu AvKdu muiK pwieAw jn nwnk suiK vsMqI 
]4]12]62]



			
				SikhUSA said:
			
		

> He never says it’s a poetry, it’s a GuruBani, and I don’t think that any one of Guru Sahib has told that, we have to read GuruBani in a fixed way or accent..


 
It is shocking to find that SikhUSA is calling the cheap poetry of Ranjit Singh Dhadriwale as GURBANI.

THe demarcation between Gurbani and Kachi bani is lost !!!
This happens when you allow these Dharnas and Kachi poetry to be sung as Keertan. The illeterate mind is unable to differnetiat between Gurbani and the 'bani' of these 'Sants'


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## etinder (Jun 24, 2006)

SikhUSA
[SIZE=3 said:
			
		

> One more thing I would like to mentions is, We know that all ragis which do kirtan in darbar sahib or any Gurudwaras, do not use the exect Gurubani, they also have their own compositions, I am giving a couple of example of kirtan wording by Bhai Ravinder Singh ji (head Ragi of Darbar Sahib, Amritsar):-[/SIZE]
> 1.) HarHat bhi tuu tuu karay
> 2.) Kaali Koel tu Kit gun kaali
> 3.) Har jio, Nimaanya tu maan
> Or you can watch his any of his kirtans, I guess 98% are his own compositions. So what would you say, he should stop kirtan?? So in this way, no one can do the kirtan, and how we all gona take the kirtan ras??? which is a mandatory part of a gursikh life.


Veer Rajvir jio..
Just for your information..the above shabds you quoated they are gurbani: 
For your reference
1: Har hat bhi tu tu kare (can you please give the second line too) cudnt recall this one

2.) Kaali Koel tu Kit gun kaali : Rag Soohee: Pg 794, Bani Bhagat Sheikh Farid ji
3) Har jio, Nimaanya tu maan: Rag Saurath : Pg 624, Guru Arjan Devji 
It is suggested that please check the facts before you say or assume something..Please dont take any offence..
Guru fateh


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## drkhalsa (Jun 24, 2006)

Dear Khalsa Ji 


1.) HarHat bhi tuu tuu karay
2.) Kaali Koel tu Kit gun kaali
3.) Har jio, Nimaanya tu maan



Yes , All these shabads mentioned above are Pure Gurbani from GURU GRANTH SAHIB 


Actually I think I will take a such a response as indication of what damage ( although not done delibrately ) by peopel who sing kachi bani 

I mean that for common man it is creating confusion that what is bani and what is not and may be people are feeling satisfied at jsut listening to DHARNAS and not reading gurbani themselves so creating kind of Psychological dependence 

I would say that Although is not Intention of People like S. RANJIT SINGH who do read dharnas to keep people away from Guru Granth sahib personal study but still it is happening .


And I sincerely feel that there should be no problem with S. RANJIT SINGH to learn Gurbani Keertan as it will help more in his work as Parcharak .

Jatinder Singh


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## SikhUSA (Jun 24, 2006)

drkhalsa said:
			
		

> Dear Khalsa Ji
> 
> 
> 1.) HarHat bhi tuu tuu karay
> ...


 

Can you guys Please Explain what is *KACHI BANI *??? Because there is no alternate of GURUBANI, I meant to say, GURUBANI is Jugo Jug Atal. There is no Kachi or Paki Bani. GuruBani is one and only, _Waho - Waho Bani Nirankar hai, Tis Jewad Avar Na Koi._  no one can change it at all, It is a pure fake word - _KachiBani._

_WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa_
_WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh_


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## drkhalsa (Jun 25, 2006)

Dear Friend 

I Never used the Kachi Bani 

What S. Ranjit Singh Ji sing is Dharnas / Poems .and not Gurbani

To mention again I Having Nothing Against S. Ranjit Singh and Fully apreciate his hard work as Preacher at such a young age . I am also fully aware that people like me are not much worth if compared against S, Ranjit Singh in any sense . I was just giving my opinion and I believe that there is always room for improvement no matter how great a person is . 

Forgive me if any comment writen by me has hurt your feelings 

About Kachee Bani 

This word is not Fake ( Though I havent used it ) 

This word has been used in Gurbani atleast two times so by no means Should be called fake word because of obvious reason 

here is the shabad which uses this word two times in lines 7 and 9 



ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਿਨਾ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ 
सतिगुरू बिना होर कची है बाणी ॥ 
satguroo binaa hor kachee hai banee. 
Without the True Guru, other songs are false. 

*ਬਾਣੀ **ਤ **ਕਚੀ **ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ **ਬਾਝਹੁ **ਹੋਰ **ਕਚੀ **ਬਾਣੀ **॥*
*बाणी त कची सतिगुरू बाझहु होर कची बाणी ॥ *
*banee ta kachee satguroo baajhahu hor kachee banee. *
*The songs are false without the True Guru; all other songs are false. *

ਕਹਦੇ ਕਚੇ ਸੁਣਦੇ ਕਚੇ ਕਚਂ​‍ੀ ਆਖਿ ਵਖਾਣੀ ॥ 
कहदे कचे सुणदे कचे कचीं आखि वखाणी ॥ 
kahday kachay sunday kachay kacheeN aakh vakhaanee. 
The speakers are false, and the listeners are false; those who speak and recite are false. 

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਿਤ ਕਰਹਿ ਰਸਨਾ ਕਹਿਆ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ॥ 
हरि हरि नित करहि रसना कहिआ कछू न जाणी ॥ 
har har nit karahi rasnaa kahi-aa kachhoo na jaanee. 
They may continually chant, 'Har, Har' with their tongues, but they do not know what they are saying. 

ਚਿਤੁ ਜਿਨ ਕਾ ਹਿਰਿ ਲਇਆ ਮਾਇਆ ਬੋਲਨਿ ਪਏ ਰਵਾਣੀ ॥ 
चितु जिन का हिरि लइआ माइआ बोलनि पए रवाणी ॥ 
chit jin kaa hir la-i-aa maa-i-aa bolan pa-ay ravaanee. 
Their consciousness is lured by Maya; they are just reciting mechanically. 

*ਕਹੈ **ਨਾਨਕੁ **ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ **ਬਾਝਹੁ **ਹੋਰ **ਕਚੀ **ਬਾਣੀ **॥੨੪॥*
*कहै नानकु सतिगुरू बाझहु होर कची बाणी ॥२४॥ *
*kahai naanak satguroo baajhahu hor kachee banee. ||24|| *
*Says Nanak, without the True Guru, other songs are false. ||24|| *






May Akal Bless us all



Jatinder Singh


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## SikhUSA (Jun 25, 2006)

WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa
WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh,

Dear DrKhalsa ji, I really appreciate your explanation. I didn’t know that this is your meaning by KACHI BANI. But in that context too, I would say his kirtan is not kachi baani.  I beg pardon if anything heart to any feeling, I beg pardon from Sikh Sangat. 

You have given an example from GurBani, and you have said that you usually watch the kirtan of Sant Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale. In your first example :



			
				DrKhalsa said:
			
		

> ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਿਨਾ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ॥
> सतिगुरू बिना होर कची है बाणी ॥
> satguroo binaa hor kachee hai banee.
> Without the True Guru, other songs are false.




As you said in your several writtens, you have watched Sant ji’s Kirtan, Where in his kirtan has he daviated from Satguru Guru Granth Sahib ji???? All in his kirtan is about Guru Sahib’s and Guru Sahib’s Sangat. Moreover the central idea of his every single kirtan is Naam japna and Naam Japaauna. You can easily tell that in his every single kirtan he force on AMRIT SHAKO, and SINGH SAJO. So his kirtan is totally concentrated on SATGURU SHRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI, so how come we can say that it is KACHI BANI when it is totally devoted to Satguroo ji.

I really appreciate your comments about Sant Ranjit Singh ji, I fully agree that there is always room for betterment, But if we condemn him, like he is not a SANT, he is a fake preacher, he has money as his motive, or he is a proud man, then this all should be considered as fake stuff. I am not a very good sikh or follower of Sant Ranjit Singh ji, But what I personally feel that we should stop this condemnation of any one who is doing the real sewa of Panth. Moreover we should help them. And Sant Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale is a good preacher of Sikhi. 

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Jun 26, 2006)

Gurfateh

Well Kavisharis are allwowed to sing in front of Guru Granth Sahib Ji,Sabh Sikhan Ko hukam Hai among many a things are not by guru yet sung.in fact when Katha is done while Kirtan people say thier own words.When Path nis done bani is read without Ragas.
If Panth is Guru and khalsa speaks something or sings somthing as per Gurmat,it is not Kachchi Bani.

For das without True Guru bani or verse are weak or Kachcha means that with the glory of God been sung in verse,then tht verse is weak.

Anyway if they sing something in Punjbi s per Gurmat then it can be more effective to punjabi aoidince as often they are not able to understand Sadhu Bhasha or Sadukarhi in Which large part of Bani is writtan.

Just a view and panth is better judge.


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## manbir (Jun 27, 2006)

SikhUSA said:
			
		

> WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa
> WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh,
> 
> Dear DrKhalsa ji, I really appreciate your explanation. I didn’t know that this is your meaning by KACHI BANI. But in that context too, I would say his kirtan is not kachi baani. I beg pardon if anything heart to any feeling, I beg pardon from Sikh Sangat.
> ...


 
*ਕਹੈ **ਨਾਨਕੁ **ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ **ਬਾਝਹੁ **ਹੋਰ **ਕਚੀ **ਬਾਣੀ **॥੨੪॥*

Keertan for Sikhs is of our Satgur. We have to sing the praise of Waheguru following the dictates of our Satguru. And our Satguru is Guru Granth Sahib. 

I have a simple query. How would we like singing songs written by tom {censored} and harry or for that matter any film song in praise of God !!! in our gatherings of Gursikhs in the presense of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and call it a Keertan !!! 
No we cannot. No cannot take liberty of concocting our own compositions and call it Keertan. If we allow Darnas of Ranjit Singh and replace it in the place of Gurbani, soon we'll all forget Guru Ke bani and sing our own cacophony !!!
This Darnas and concoctions of poems are direct attack on the basic of Sikhism. 
Each and every word of our Guru is our basic principle. We are to remember our Guru's teachings and follow its dictates.
Should we stop reciting Gurbani and in its place read and sing poems of Ranjit Singh ?? If so WHY ??? 

 


I would like to know when is 'Sant Ranjit Singh Dhandrewale' is coming out with a GUTKA of his Darnas and why not ?

A time may come when a new sect of Sikhs may be formed who would have their Nitnem Gutka containing the Bani of Sant Ranjit Singh Ji !!! And if Sant Ranjit Singh gets down to work seriously and devotes enough time he may come out with a Granth containing his Bani !!! Haven't we seen such thing happenning ?

If you think it is not a possibility, Why ?

I was wondering, why Ranjti Singh is so adament in singing his peoms and name it Keertan ?
I pondered a lot but could not find more satisfactory answer and that is -- Simply he is unable to Sing Gurbani.
Ask him why cannot he do keertan as done by Prof Darshan Singh Ji or like Bhai Jasbir Singh ji Khalsa ?? Why not. He has to answer. Why is he bent uppon corrupting our beautiful blessing of our Guru - Keertan.


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## drkhalsa (Jun 27, 2006)

Dear SikhUSA


Thanks for your post 

I would again liek to say that dont take anything written on forums to your heart , as this just disscusion and every body have their views 

For me ,my understanding could be yet less than other learned members but still I appreciate the work of S. Ranjit Singh as preacher and have no problems with his methods

But as mentioned by others members here there some issues that people want him to address which are more often related to his dharnas ( To be frank I have met many people who like his dharnavas but also many who dont like and prefer gurbani and last mentioned group is general is from educated background )

Other Big always on disscusion is that of use of word SANT 

According to S. Ranjit Singh , in his words word sant can be used for any naam abhiyasee/SIKH and can be used in same way as GURSIKH /GURMUKH and does not mean that person carrying Sant as prefix has special status . Also According to S. Ranjit Singh he is ready to remove it but sangat that loves him are still force him to use it .



Well many people dont agree to his argument and has concluded based on gurbani that SANT word can only be used for Our Guru Sahibans or for Collective Gathering of Gursikh sangat 
This is issue is creating confusion but still something could be agreed .

My view is that if it is not allowed for him to use this Word SANT by sikh panth than this word should not be used for any Mahapurakh whether living or dead 

And yes I have listen to his Kirtan and Learnt many things from his keertan and in principle his keertan and lectures carries the message on the same line as other Mahapurkh from his samprada ( RARA WALE)and he promotes Naam Abhiyas and Satkaar of Guru Granth Sahib.
even though I hold different beliefs on some issue but still Good is good and I appreciate that .


Jatinder Singh


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## SikhUSA (Jun 27, 2006)

DrKhalsa Ji, I know its just a talk, nothing personal. Manbir ji I also really agree on this thing that lot of people are persuading sikh sangat with their own religion by their “own bani”. I am totally against this kind of Guru’s and their Sangat. But don’t you see that there is no intention in his Kirtan to do that?? Where in his kirtan he says that follow something else then GuruGranth Sahib???? Its totally narrowness of mind if we take his words in this way.

I would say, Guru Gobind Singh ji had 52 Kawishars and Dhadi Jathay in his Darbaar, so in here don’t you wanna say that they guys were singing the songs written by tom {censored} and harry ????? Its shame if you don’t see any diff in Guru Ustat and this kinds of songs. Again, in your written you said that his dharnas would replace by GURUBANI, Its never gonna happen, GuruJi Ki Bani is Jugo Jug Atal, nobody can change or replace it.


Whole sikh Sangat recognize the earnings of Sant Baba Nand Singh ji (Nanaksar Wale), Sant baba Ishar Singh ji (Nanaksar wale), Sant Baba Ishar Singh ji (Rahra Sahib wale), Sant Baba Atar Singh ji (Mastuana Wale) and Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji (Bhindrawale)….. and they used to do the same thing in front of GuruGranth Sahib ji, which you think is songs written by Tom {censored} and Harry whatever. What would you say, they were not Sant??? Did They come up with their own “GUTKA”???? 

Please don’t take any offence, its nothing personal. But I feel real shame if you match Guru Ustat and these kind of songs. 

Guru Fateh.
May God Bless the Khalsa.


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## max314 (Jul 4, 2006)

If a man reflects with honesty as his motive and virtue as his intent, then God resides in that man; thus does every man have the ability to become his own Guru.


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## penj (Jul 8, 2006)

Hi
just wondering how I can watch this vidoe have been trying to download it but am having some serious promblems on the mega upload site. Just want to see it for myself to really believe such a thing!


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## HS Kalsy (Jul 11, 2006)

Khalsa Ji,
                Kachi Bani is not condusive in the presence of SGGS.

HS Kalsy


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## Randip Singh (Jul 11, 2006)

A bigger question is why people need tofollow Sants, Baba's and Bhai's when we have all we need in our Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji?

So long as people keep following a Bhai/Sant/Baba of one description or another, Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji will always appear to fall by  the weigh side.


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## 03arr (Jul 21, 2006)

*Re: 'Sant Baba' Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale - A preacher or a fake holyman?*

*You are warned for the first and the last time. Use Civilised Language in This Forum or You will permanently banned. Regards*

sant ranjit singh is a true and honest person who is believed to have god's avatar within him because nealry all pepole dont believe this but i do  

*[Admin Cut]*


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## jaskiran (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: Sant Baba Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale - A sikh parchaaric or a fake holy man?*

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji KI Fateh.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! i believe this is nt true. i believe sant baba ranjit singh ji is a true and honest man who is trying to get youngsters into sikhi.is this a bad thing??????? NOOOOO dnt be rediculous he has been sent down to us from Guruji inorder to make more people into sikhi. people are jst jelouse that he has succeded by doing amrit purchar.he has also inspired many people.for example myself i used to be da usual type of indian short hair,go clubbin,smoke the usual things teenagers do.but then i one day i watched one of his dvd's and went to a few programmes and i realised that the things this sant says are true and that their is more to life than going out enjoying urselves and partying and that. so therefore i believe that sant baba ranjit singh ji is a SANT and a BABA. their are many peoples lives he has changed round not only mine. i have also strated wearing a patkha all inspired to me by this Sant.
also i have heard things like he has let people do the matha teek to him. this is also rediculous as he himself has neva sed gv me money as he does kitan and so on from the goodness of his heart not for the GREED of money. if u dnt belive me listen to his ketha n u will hear him say "no1 gv me money". so i dont knw wer people are making all these stories from.
u hv also claimed that he has let fake amritaddees bow down to him this even more rediculous than wat u sed b4. luk yea go to youthtube.com and type in sant baba ranjit singh ji.and you can hear for yourself wer he is telling us all that these things are not true and that we shud go towards whoever is rite. and at the end of the day hes bringing us closer to Guruji not himself. also if amritdareeees do bow down 2 him n he says noo then they are fake sikhs as evry sikh knws that we shudnt bow down to any1 but the Guru Granth sahib Ji.
it was also sed dat Sant baba ranjit singh ji wore a kulgi on his head teh one like guru gobind singh ji wore. this is just done to make him luk bad it wasnt no kulgi like guru ji it was a khandha n many sikhs wear this and people just turned a khandha to a kulgi. so for all you people who think this its also not true.
Overall im in favour of sant baba ranjit singh ji and i have the most respect for him and i think that all these people who think his fake they should put it to a side and think what he he doing is right as he is bringing people to sikhi nt turing them away from sikhi.from reading what i have sed i hope i havnt offended eny1 and i hope that less people will now fink his a fake at the end of the day his bin sent from guruji and also he has direct contact with God at all tyms so therefore we shud respect him all da way. unless we have gt evidence which states that he is a true fake. 
however i ws also sent a picture by a fellow gursikh which showd someone bowing down to the sant and him touching his/her head inorder to bless him/her.by seeing this i gt a little confussed bt however i belive people are doing this to make less people belive in him but however i didnt get dragged into this as i belive anyone who brings you towards sikhi and wants you to be part of the khalsa cant be a bad person.
so therefore by reading this i hope i have showed you that sant baba ranjit singh ji isnt a bad person as he has turned bad people into good people. for example me and alot of my mates nad also my family. by writing this i hope i havnt offended anyone as all im doing is putting my points forward and what i'v lerant and been taught.

waheguru ji ki khalsa waheguru ji ka fathe


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## js1965 (Sep 27, 2006)

I feel sorry for all these 'Gianis' who are criticizing Sant Ranjit Singh Ji.
If you guys have ever recited sukhmani sahib ji da path, ...... "*sant ka nindak maha hatiyara"
**I don't think I have to say more than this.
*


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## js1965 (Sep 28, 2006)

drkhalsa said:


> A member of the congregation bows to Ranjeet Singh as he places his hand on her head to 'bless' her.(KP) - This week, a video of Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale has come to light in the public. The young man who at an early age has been renowned as a “Sant” by his followers, became popular for his charisma and attracting Sikhs who in large numbers by preaching Sikhi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"SANT KA NINDAK MAHA_HATYARA"


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## manbir (Sep 28, 2006)

It is pity that we have people around us who have the termity to call themselves as SANTS and have the ego of equating themselves with the status of our Gurus. Their egoist self keeps them in a state of delusion and we find them roaming around on this earth as self acclaimed SANTS. They have developed a very convienent label of SANT to fool the masses and themselves too. By calling themself as SANT they are proving themselves as Guru Ka NINDAKS.
The irony is that their are umpteen number of Sikhs who get fooled by these SANTS.

These Sikhs dnad the SANTS fail to understand for whom the word SANT has been reffered to in Gurbani !!!


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## js1965 (Sep 28, 2006)

manbir said:


> It is pity that we have people around us who have the termity to call themselves as SANTS and have the ego of equating themselves with the status of our Gurus. Their egoist self keeps them in a state of delusion and we find them roaming around on this earth as self acclaimed SANTS. They have developed a very convienent label of SANT to fool the masses and themselves too. By calling themself as SANT they are proving themselves as Guru Ka NINDAKS.
> The irony is that their are umpteen number of Sikhs who get fooled by these SANTS.
> 
> These Sikhs dnad the SANTS fail to understand for whom the word SANT has been reffered to in Gurbani !!!


Manbir, Seems like you are no a SIKH..........!!!!


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## manbir (Sep 28, 2006)

If you want to be a SIKH, start the learning process right now. Be a learner and continue to learn and never stop learning !!!

I do not understand why some of us instead of being a Guru Ka Sikh become a Guru themselves and get hold of such labels like SANTS


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## manbir (Sep 28, 2006)

Mind you, in Gurbani SANT is for our Guru. Sant stands for our Guru. 

Those who have appetite for being SANTS are Artificial Gurus


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## jeetsarbjeet (Sep 29, 2006)

my all dear..
in sukhmani sahib its written 
sant ki ninda kabhi nahi..
what ever u mean 2 say  2 dhadriyaan walle...
kise di ninda nahi karni chahidi...caos tusi usde paap dho rahe ho...
te apne siir paap chada rahe ho..
better be care full  next time..caous u had ans in dargaah...
god bless u all


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## manbir (Sep 29, 2006)

There is a difference between Playcing FACTS and commiting NINDA.
Those who call themselves Sants are committing Big Paap by placing themselves equal to our Guru.
If a Hindu calls himself a Sant it is diferent but if a Sikh calls himself a Sant he is committing a big Manmat by equating himself with Our Gurus.

They are people with cunning hearts with black deeds and draped in White cloths -- Guru said it, not me !!


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## manbir (Sep 29, 2006)

Another sign of such cunning souls is:--

They'll speek or sing their own bani and call it Gurbani.
The'll sing their own tuk bandi and call it Keertan.


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## manbir (Sep 29, 2006)

If someone calls himself Guru Ka Sikh, he/she should sing Gurubani and obey Guru's Order (Guru Ke Agya manye Mathae)

A Guru Ka Sikh has to be a Sikh all his life. He has to be a learner all his life. 
Not try to be a teacher or Guru !!!


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## Bobby Gill (Oct 3, 2006)

Guru Piyari Sadh Sangat Ji:

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

Ranjit Singh Dhandrianwala is not a baba or sant; these are very respectful words that has been only used by Baba Budha Ji and none other has got that honor and Sant is very far to be used. He is not even that legible to have Bhai in front of his name. He should be refered as  "Pakhandi Sadh" I have uploaded a picture of a newspaper that was pulished in india 2 days back that shows the protest that was done in Vancouver. He was not allowed to do the preaching and not only in vancouver but also in Calgary and Edmonton the Gursikhs had took stand to stop his fake preaching.

He was told by Gursikhs to front himself on radio saying that he is sorry for what was done on his birthday celebrations but his EGO is his first priority and he said he has done nothing wrong that he should be sorry for. 

How can you say a person a Gursikh whose ego is his first priority? He shouldn't even be said as a gursikh.

Any Gursikh in Canada should be aware of this what's happening right now and i would prefer them to post their suggestions in here. I will try to keep this updated as frequently as possible.

Waheguru ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru ji Ki Fateh

Bobby Gill


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## Gagan Tatla (Oct 4, 2006)

I do agree with Giani ji and Drkhalsa26.......u wrote right...really these SANTS r making people fool....they just know how to befool people and get money from them....but......we should also think about the people who blindly follow these "sants ang Babas".......why ?????these are we who let them do their odds........and people amongst us who help them and raise them....we all should come together to get rid of these "babas" n beleive in just guru granth sahib ji.....our GURU........we should not follow any fake gurus.......even because we have THE GURU OF ALL OF THEM...........
these fake people r doing nothing for our religion ....they just know how to collect money and enjoy a luxurious life........i would say to all sikhs tht stop following these sants.....have faith in just one guru of all of us.....SHRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI..........may guru sahib bless us all..........


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## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 4, 2006)

Gurfateh

Das just wats to put something about Sants over here.

Gurus used term Sant in manner that we should resect them.They nenver said as far das is aware that that they were Sants and so should they be respected.

What as per Gyani Sant Singh ji Maskeen das understood and same is there in Sukhmani Sahib ie Sant is peron one with God ie Salvaged while being alive.


As our Gurus had had stage yet they were able to have thier stage our selves.So Khalsa also beomces form of Guru or Guru Panth.

So ture Khalsa by self is at the state of Sant.

Das niether hystreically oppse Sant of Dhadriyan as he is a fellow Sikh and like brother to das,Rather younger brother.

Yet das oppses various views preached by him,yet repect him to cary out Sikhi asd he understood that.

It is wrong to say that our Sants in panth preach living Gurudom,rather there is a fear that some of theier followers may go out to personal worship.

But Sant Nirankaris are not from Sikh Sants,they are belivers of lving Gurudom but are from fore fathers of very same missionaries,who oppse Sants in Sikhs.

So not only should we follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji but we need to understand that also and do it with full respect and not casualy as Nirankaris did or misioanries are doing but seriously else this type of Santhood can come in the coming genrations of those who opposes Sants presently and lving Gurudom can come there too.

So Need to be carefull while opposing Sants also else opposer may be shown as culprit and Sant as a victom.


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## jasi (Oct 12, 2006)

Dear sad sangat ji.

About your comments and at many places this man so call himself a saint is not bad word. He has to be completely independent to be what he think. Other thing if public wishes to respect him by touching his feet is no one's business mote than the individual who is touching. We are grown up enopugh to not feel any jeleousy about him.Rest about preaching gurbani and add his own version to make it more attractive with his utmost appreciation because he is inspired with devotions but do not change the word of Gurbani. We have to be more understanding and let other people live as you like to live. Myself I have not seen this sant sahib or met him but i do get concern about the people's fears who think that this is a fake sant. very narrow thinking.

jaspi


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## robinkhalsa (Oct 13, 2006)

there are many video's of ranjit singh in which baba is akhuti sant , baba celebtrate his happpy birthday and others

baba's main infulence is on malwa and doaba area why?

why not on majha area?


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## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 13, 2006)

Gurfateh

He is from Rara Sahib Samprda perhaps(das use to Think from Nanaksar).anyway both these Sampradas have more followers in Malwa or Doaba,while in Majha,Taksal has more following but he is member of Commanwealth of Sants,called Sant Samaj.

Das saw them dislodging 3 missioaoris from joing posts recently,This shows thei force.Instead of making them more popular by slandering them,we need to work hard from the grass root level to preahc our type of Missioary type of Gurmat,But do we all have devotion and commitment in us so that we could do it?


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## manjeet007 (Oct 17, 2006)

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh  

i just dont know why people call themselves as sant , in earlier times ( in times of gurujis) , nobody was given the honour of being called  a sant. people like farid ji, kabir ji and many others whose banis are there in shri guru granth sahib ji, they were called as 'bhai' and 'baba'.

i think somewhere or the other we ourselves are responsible for these, we should stop going to these so called sants and baba's, Is the teachings of shri guru granth sahib ji not enough for us.

personally i feel the sikh governing bodies like SGPC are also responsible or these sant's to survive.


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## hpsingh (Oct 20, 2006)

can i just ask where this video came from ????


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## hpsingh (Oct 20, 2006)

is anybody here?


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## kaur-1 (Oct 20, 2006)

hpsingh said:


> is anybody here?



If you mean that the video is not available in the link, please check in youtube. Search the name or surname etc will get you results hopefully.


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## hpsingh (Oct 20, 2006)

does the link work for u?


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## kaur-1 (Oct 20, 2006)

hpsingh said:


> does the link work for u?



No it does not. Its and expired link. But let me do a search for  you on youtube.


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## hpsingh (Oct 20, 2006)

ok thanks


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## kaur-1 (Oct 20, 2006)

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Search      ranjit 

 or ranjit singh

or search   Dhadrianwala



Quick a few videos uploaded.


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## GURVINDER (Oct 27, 2006)

veerji tusi mahapursha de jeevan te sanu chanan karao


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## GURVINDER (Oct 27, 2006)

kise nu bura akhna bahut asaan hai par usde varga hona bahut mushkil hai tusi sikke da ek pehlu dekheya hai par tusi a nahi dekheya ki o sikh nal jod rhe han,v amrit chaka rhe han,nshe chuda rhe han


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## GURVINDER (Oct 27, 2006)

waheguru


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## manbir (Oct 27, 2006)

I was just now seeing the Video of Ranjit Singh on YouTube, Real Tamasha !!!

It only proves thay a big part of Sikhs are downright Fools. There seems No possibility of correction.


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## kaur-1 (Oct 27, 2006)

manbir said:


> I was just now seeing the Video of Ranjit Singh on YouTube, Real Tamasha !!!
> 
> It only proves thay a big part of Sikhs are downright Fools. There seems No possibility of correction.




Do you think it could be due to most havent tried learning or (trying to learn) and live Guru ki bani as writtened in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.?


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## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 27, 2006)

Gurfateh


manbir said:


> I was just now seeing the Video of Ranjit Singh on YouTube, Real Tamasha !!!
> 
> It only proves thay a big part of Sikhs are downright Fools. There seems No possibility of correction.


 
This is the reason that das always keep on bashing missioanries.

After Kala Afghana Jis' wrting there has been good lot of lower sprites or Dhandian Kalan.

No one is fool.We are all fools in front of God.We are fools and you are clever and good knower.Hum Murakh tum Chatur Syanae(correct Das if wrong is writtan).

Singh Sahib Manbeer Singh Ji,

yuo are our role model.Do not give up.Sikh never gives up.Try and try again,Even if some one is with you or not.Even if people may outcaste you.

If faith is in Guru true.Yuo can do correction.Think globaly act localy.Talk and discuss and preach more.Akal bless all.and Best of luck.


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## manbir (Oct 27, 2006)

Yes we are fools because we have multiple faces. One as a Guru Ka Sikh for all the world to see. Another face kept hidden form the world - this face is of a manmati Sikh who does everything that our Guru has forbidden. 

We just fail to realise that Guru knows all, Sees all but is vadda veparvah ...


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## GURVINDER (Oct 28, 2006)

Gurbani Says Sant Shaee Jeev Ke Paoujal Taran Haar Sab Te Utte Janie Nanak Naam Pyar Tusi Kade Apne Augan Wal Chati Mari Hai Jo Dujia Te Dosh Lande Ho Kade Bhi Kise Sant Di Ninda Nahi Karni Chahidi Ranjit Singh Ji Da Kirtan Mai Pishale 4 Yrs To Sun Rha Ha Mainu Te Kite Bhi Ona De Kirtan Te Khud Guru Banan Di Gal Nhi Dissi Tusi Ek Aise Insaan Di Ninda Kar Rhe Ho Jisne Apna Ghar Bar Dujia Laee Chadia Hai


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## GURVINDER (Oct 28, 2006)

Mai Use Bande Da Mail Receive Karan Da Intzaar Kar Reha Ha Jeda Sant Ranjit Singh Ji Nu Fake Saint Akhda Hai Main Use Bande Na Debate   Karna Chada Ha Te Usde Vichar Bare Janana Chahda Hai Plz Send Some Pm


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## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 28, 2006)

Gurfateh

Bhra Ji Das Bihari e Te oodee punjabi pakistani vakan e.Muaf karana par je samajh na aye te kise hor walon samjh lena.

Sant Dhadrian wale Ji ne boleya siga ki Sayana jo bhoot palit  ya jadu tuna dur karde hai ees paron siyan e ki dujayan nu bevakoof bananda e.

Ethe o theek ne.

Par o apni samprada di maryada Singha ute pande paye ne jadon o kande ne ki Maas Nahin Khana .Sant Nahi khande.Par Sant Sipahi Kha Saqde Ne.Pahle Wale sant khud nahi si khande te apen Samprada waliyan nu tan rokde san par Singh sariyan wich nahi pracharde si.


Santa ne Keha si ke Dhaul Dharam Daya Kat Sut asanu Hukum Denda hai ki daya karo te maans na khao.Dhaul Dhram Daya Ka Sut,das nu lagad hai ki Dharam Bandeyan Te Akal De Daya Naal hai.Asi na ta Daya Kar Saqde Haan Ate na kise te Julm.Sab Kar Kare Kartar.

Tusande Charan Kamalan te Parnaam ate Sant De Charan Te wi.Oh theek Prachar Karde Nai.Je Oh Akhan Ke Maans te Bhari Chinjan naam abhyas nahi Karan Dendiyan Te theek Rahega.

Baqi Ki Pata Sant Ji Jande Hoon par na Kahande hon,kyoki Aam Janata nu das wargic gal Samajh Nahi ani Ate hor Tareke nall Samjha Ke naam Naal La Sakde hoon.

Das nu jayada ta pata Nahi Te ho Saqda hai ki apne Vichar Rakh Das Galti Karda Hoye Santa De Hajur.

Sant Toon Das walon Mafi Mangni Ji,Das anjan hai te ohnu maf Karana.Par Eh Gal Puchchhna Jarur Sant Ton.

Das nu of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Das Duja Janam Japde Ne.

Das nu Maaf Karana.


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## GURVINDER (Oct 28, 2006)

Tusi Gurbani Padde Hoge Jis Wich Ek Shabad Aunda Hai "baba Hor Khana Khushi Khwaar Jis Khade Tan Pideeye Man Me Chale Vikaar" Je Tusi Sant Sipahi De Janam Te Chanan Pao Ta Janoge Ki Auna Ne Jeeb De Swaad Waste Maas Nhi Khada O Tan Jang Wich Majboori Wich Khande San Sant Jarnail Singh Sach Much Sant Sipahi San Jina Ne Sant  Sipahi Duniya Nu Ban Ke Dikhaya


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## GURVINDER (Oct 28, 2006)

Tusi Bihari O Par Ek Guru De Sache Sikh Ho Keep Learning Sikhism


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## GURVINDER (Oct 28, 2006)

vijaydeep Singh JI TWADE VICHAR PAD KE SANU BAHUT CHANGA LAGEYA


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## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 28, 2006)

Gurfateh

Das wi ehi Gal Kahand Paya Hai Ki.Pun Pap Tun Sant Sipahi Uchchh honda e.Puni Pap Vicharde Tate Sar Na Jani tihi Guni Sansar Suta Sutaya Rain Bihani.

Jeev nu rakhan te marand rab da kum hai.Par Pahile Patshah Te Bani Aye te ang 15 darj Hai Ki Maas wicjh Raas honda hai.Pahili Patshahi prachar Karde Si ate Shaster wi vartdi Se.Shatam Patshah Ne tan kutte We Rakhe Ate Shikar We khedya ate Janga de alwa we.Var Bhai Gurdas Ji Wich Darj hai.Ate Ik Jang tan hoi Shikar de ute si.

Vachitar Natak wich Dasam Pita Likhade Ne KKi Ohana Shikar Khedya Ate Roj,Rechh ,Jhankar ,Sher ate suar mare.Bhangani Da yodh ta uhde bad wich likhya hai.

Das ute kirpa Karo te Kuch hor gyan pradan karo ji.


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## GURVINDER (Oct 28, 2006)

If Sant Ranjit Is Fekeste Or Fake Then Where Does U Stand Who Only Knows To Blame On Others


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## GURVINDER (Oct 28, 2006)

If Anyone Want To Say Anything About Sant Ji Then Come Foreward I Am Ready To Remove His Misconseptions . Does Anyone Had Such
Guts?


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## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 28, 2006)

Gurfateh

Das Santa De Charan Thale Hi Rehana Chahanda Hai par das mangda hai Ke Sant hori Bhi hun Ghorh Brah Gyan Diyan Gallan Khule Am Sangatan Nu Dassan.

Sant Shuru Guru Bhakti ya Darbar Sahib di Bhakti ton Karde hun par Lai Jande hun Akal Bhakit Wal.Shri Dasham Granth Sahib,Sidha Akal Bhakti wal Le Janda Hai.

Sant Jande Ne Tat Gyan,Par Shuru Karde oh Jaye Gal naal Jerha ek pendu band Samjh Sake ate phir Hauli hauli Vaddiyan tat gyan diyangallan wal bhakti naal Laye Jande ne.

Khyon Ki oh gal di shorouat ik Pendu Bande de star ute karde ne,tan phir asade bathere bhai Samjhede ne ki oh app wi pendu ja Gurbani to anjan Ne.

Das Sant nu Dasham Guru das sroop Manda hai,Sare Khalse Dasam Guru sroop hun.

Santa De Charan wich Iltejah,jodrhi hai ke,Jerhe veer Bathere Parhe Likhe ne,oona de star/level das preacher vi ohna nall Karan ate jehra pendu banda wi usno sun laye ga.Oh Bi nihal hoyega,ate hor vidya arajan wal wadhega.

Ghalti das di maaf karni.


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## GURVINDER (Oct 28, 2006)

I AM TOTAlly SHOCKED WHEN I SAW SUCH A HUGE NUMBER OF PROTESTERS OF SANT JI  FORUM IS NOT MADE TO BLAME ANY SANT I MYSELF  WAS A "NASTIK" WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IN GOD BUT SANT JI'S KIRTAN HAD CHANGED MY LIFE AT ALL NOW I AM A SIKH


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## kaur-1 (Oct 28, 2006)

Waheguroo ji Ka Khalsa Waheguroo ji ki Fateh

Whats the definition of a "Sant" in Sikhi.?


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## GURVINDER (Oct 28, 2006)

Sant Is Who Joins The Broken One's With God & Guru


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## kaur-1 (Oct 28, 2006)

GURVINDER said:


> Sant Is Who Joins The Broken One's With God & Guru



Thanks for relply. I just did a search on the net- see below plz. Does Bhai Ranjit Singh have all this attributes?

*Sant*

*From SikhiWiki
*

*SANT* commonly translated as *saint* though not very exactly, for the English term, used in the adjectival sense ‘saintly’ for a person of great holiness, virtue or benevolence, has a formal connotation in the Western culture, is a modified form of sat meaning *lasting, real, wise and venerable*. *Sat or Satya* has been used since the Vedic times for the Ever-existent, Unchanging Reality or the Self-existent, Universal Spirit, Brahman or God.


The term *sant* came into vogue much later. The word occurs frequently in the ancient Pali literature of Buddhism in the sense of tranquil, true or wise. From Pali it was resuscitated during the middle ages when Bhakti movement took its birth. The epithet sant was usually added to the names of the Vaisnava bhaktas of Maharashtra belonging to Vitthal or Varkari school such as Jnandev, Namdev, Eknath and Tukaram. According to R.D. Ranade, Mysticism in Maharashtra, “Now ‘Santa’ is almost a technical word in the Vitthal Sampradaya, and means any man who is a follower of that Sampradaya. Not that followers of other Sampradayas are not ‘Santas’ but the followers of the Varkari Sampradaya are santas par excellence.” 

Within the Bhakti movement there is a distinct Sant tradition clearly distinguishable from South Indian Saiva bhakti and the Vaisnava tradition of Northern and Central India. The Sant-bhaktas were essentially non-sectarian. They were strict monotheists and were opposed to Brahmanical ritualism, idol-worship and caste system. Like other bhaktas, they valued love-relationship between the individual and the deity, but their deity, although usually given Vaisnava names, is the Absolute Reality, Unborn, Formless, All-pervading, Self-existent, nirguna (without attributes) God, who makes Himself manifest the Name (naam) which may be uttered or meditated upon. Nirguni bhaktas refute avatarvada or incarnation, but they believe that the sant, through living a life of piety and practising nam, can attain final release. 

Through Bhakti the term passed into the Sikh tradition. In the Guru Granth Sahib there is frequent mention of the status and significance of the sant, a holy man who represents the salt of the earth and the hope of mankind. Guru Arjan defines a sant thus: “*jina sasi girasi na visrai harinaman mani mantu/ dhannu si sei nanaka puranu soi santu* — They who do not put away from their minds the Name Divine even for the duration of a breath or as they swallow a morsel are indeed blessed, o Nanak! They are the perfect sants” (GG, 319). Guru Arjan in another hymn:


All the twenty-four hours of day and night, 
He knows God to be close to his heart, 
 And to His will he cheerfully submits. 
 Name alone is the sustenance of the sant 
 A sant considers himself to be the dust of the feet of all. 
 This, brothers, is the sants’ way of life,  
 Beyond my power is it to describe its excellence. 
 Name alone is their occupation, 
 In blissful kirtan do they find their peace. 
 Friend and foe are to them alike. 
 Besides their God they acknowledge not another. 
 Myriad sins can a Sant erase, 
 He is the dispeller of sorrow and the bestower of life. 
 Heroes true to their word are the sants, 
 Even poor maya is by them beguiled. 
 The gods themselves long for their company; 
 To have a sight of them is fulfilling in the extreme, 
 To be able to serve them a blessing. 
 Nanak does with folded hands supplicate: 
 Grant me this favour, O Treasure of Merit, 
 that to the service of the sants do I 
 dedicate myself. 
 *SGGS page 392*​


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## GURVINDER (Oct 28, 2006)

I Admit With You But I Am Against The People's Who Blame Ranjit Singh As Fake They Did Not Know About His Achievements In Thise Less Age  Plz Share Your Views I Am Interested In Peoples Who Want To Give Me Information About What Exactly Is The Reason To Say Him A Fake


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## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 28, 2006)

Gurfateh

as per Sadhu Sant aoudio castte by Gyani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen.Sant is that person who is one withn God.

four states

1.Duniyadar,in Sikhs that could be Turbanned Hindu.(attached to worldly affairs)
2.Jigyasu,in Sikhs ,that person is Sikh.One who has interest in faith.Das is more at this state.
3.Sadhu/Sadhak in Sikhs it is Singh.One who moves in the path of God or follows the God's direction for being in love with God.

4.Sant,in Sikh it is refered to Khalsa.one who reachs the destination moving via path.one who is one with God,Salvaged while being alive.


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## GURVINDER (Oct 28, 2006)

Ranjit Singh Had Dedicated Himself In Thise Age When People's  Of His Age Make Thiere Carriers In The Different Fields Now Where Is Panjab Standing Does Blaming The People's Who Are Showing Right Path Is The Work Left For Them


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## GURVINDER (Oct 28, 2006)

vijaydeep Singh said:


> Gurfateh
> 
> as per Sadhu Sant aoudio castte by Gyani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen.Sant is that person who is one withn God.
> 
> ...



VEERJI HERE NOT QUESTION WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF SANT HERE IS THE QUESTION WHY ARE THE PEOPLE'S BLAMING THE PERSON WHO DEDICATED HIS WHOLE LIFE FOR SHOWING RIGHT OATH TO THE PEOPLE'S


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## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 28, 2006)

Gurfateh

a person who sacrifises slef for other,that has mercy of Akal.that person is fortunate.

There is one verse in Guru Granth Sahib.Person of God sings glory of God.If some one slander that person.He/she does not looses his qultieis.Forgive das if das is not  interpreting the ve3rse correctly.

Then das begs one more thing from Sant Dhadrian Wale.

Das along side other Nirmala Brother want Sant Samaj to not to oppose Female as one of the Panj Piara,even if there is no convention for it.And das also wants female to be Panj Piara as well allowed to serve(cleaning etc.) a Darbar Sahib,which so far more male do. 

Kindly forward this message of das to Sant Ji.As Akal is soul of all body and racial or gender based differances are only apprantly and are due to mammon or Maya.inn true all is Akal.

Das seeks your opinion that should Sant Ji Dhadriyan Wale be at the side of what das wrote and put for the Atamdarshi behaviour with females or should he support the Sant Samaj decision to oppse Female being Panj Piara or serving at Darbar Sahib?

Das is aware that Sant Ji has good say in Sant Samaj.Forgive das for any mistake but opinion of Sant Ji is appriciated to be posted over here.


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## GITIKA KAUR (Oct 29, 2006)

i am sorry i am late in this discussion well i am agreed with all the statements but this a fake person Sant Maskeen ji says who are sant ? the person who spoil their life for high spirits and devoted their whole life for that purpose only
One cannot become a saint without first tasting the amrit bani. One cannot become a saint without learning information to be happy, healthy, and successful. Guru Granth Sahib teaches how to do it. Saints do not need Guru Granth Sahib, because they already have the understanding of Guru Granth Sahib, and they risk their lives and self sacrifice to make Guru's giyan available to all people.


We cannot become a saint on our own, it is only by the grace of God. We become a saint by responding to the flavor of amrit bani, the word of God. Not just emotionally, but intellectually, submitting to being open to change of our attitudes, habits, ways, etc.
REGARDS
GITIKA KAUR{SGGSJI DAUGHTER}


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## GITIKA KAUR (Oct 29, 2006)

i am sorry i am late in this discussion well i am agreed with all the statements but this a fake person Sant Maskeen ji says who are sant ? the person who spoil their life for high spirits and devoted their whole life for that purpose only
One cannot become a saint without first tasting the amrit bani. One cannot become a saint without learning information to be happy, healthy, and successful. Guru Granth Sahib teaches how to do it. Saints do not need Guru Granth Sahib, because they already have the understanding of Guru Granth Sahib, and they risk their lives and self sacrifice to make Guru's giyan available to all people.


We cannot become a saint on our own, it is only by the grace of God. We become a saint by responding to the flavor of amrit bani, the word of God. Not just emotionally, but intellectually, submitting to being open to change of our attitudes, habits, ways, etc.
REGARDS
GITIKA KAUR{SGGSJI DAUGHTER}


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## GURVINDER (Nov 3, 2006)

Why People's Don't  See His Achievement's They Only See Defecty On Him


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## GURVINDER (Nov 3, 2006)

manbir said:


> This person is one of many who are running 'successful business' in the form of deras in Punjab and making fool of rural population of Punjab and earning their livelihood.
> Many of his videos are being shown on the cable TV network. He is unable to do kirtan except for narrating truth less kathas and singing some home made poems passing it as kirtan. To legitimize his show he throws in couple of Gurbani lines here and there.
> I have heard few of his videos and find him a 'pukka thug'. I am not surprised at all by his show rather am appalled at the state of we sikhs who are able to digest such things happening among us.


VEERJI YOU ARE JUST BLAMING A PERSON WHO IS SHOWING RIGHT PATH TOP THE PEOPLE WHO ARE AWAY FROM GURU'S SIKHI 
I HAD MANY QUESTION TO ASK TO THE PEOPLE  THAT IF YOU SAYING THAT THISE PERSON IS MAKING PANJAB PEOPLE FOOL  THEN FIRST OF ALL THINK OF YOURSELF . YOU ARE A PERSON WHO ONLY SEE THE RUMOURS NOT THE REALITY THISE PERSON IS RICITING THE HYMES FOR GIVING THE PEOPLE'S MESSAGE WHAT GURBANI SAYING TO THE WORLD WHAT HAD HAPPENED WITH OUR GURU'S THISE IS A PERSON WHO DEVOTED HIS WHOLE LIFE FOR SEWA OF THE HUMANITY AND SIKHISM OR IN OTHER WORDS WE CAN SAY THAT HE IS SAVING OUR SIKHI BY MAKING THEM AMRITDHARI  THINK ABOUT OURSELF WE ARE THE PEOPLE'S AHO ONLY KNOWS TO MAKE DEBATE ON GURBANI,SAINTS(MAKE THEM FAKE)BY GIVING SO MANY EXAMPLES .VEERJI REPLY ME DO YOU EVER GIVEN LAKH OF PEOPLE GURBANI 'S MESSAGE? DO YOU HAD EVER MADE A PERSON AMRITDHARI?DO YOU EVER CHANGED THE MIND OF A PERSON WHO IS "NASTIK".IF A PERSON IN THISE SMALL AGE IS TYING TO SAVE THE SIKHI THEN WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH YOU RUDE PEAOPLE WHO ONLY KNOWS TO BLAME OTHERS THINK ABOUT THISE GURBANI SAYS "Farida, je tu akali lateefu, kaale likhu na lekhu.
Aapanadde giruvaan mahi, sir nivaan kari dekhu." IF UNDERSTAND THISE LINES THEN YOU WILL NEVER BLAME A GURSIKH


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## jasi (Nov 5, 2006)

to my surprise which is so normal that all these people who are complaing about dhadrianwala are complaining who are suffering from whole lots of probelms by following own prinicipals.

so called innocents people when they could not find a solace from our gurudwara's preaxhers who ha[ppened to be also making money there.turned them to some one like dhadriawala to listen his teachings. this is making abig sense to these people then what is any body's problems.

today all the people are very aware that how sikhism is being prectices. we are bowing to our gurus pictures. we are doing dhoop pani to our gurus pictures. people are not choosing dhadrianwala to touch his feet because he thinks he is begger than Guru Granth Sahib Ji not but people give him respect because oh his dedications to preach sikhi and our Gurus teaching.

Shri Guru Nanak Dev ji Himself mentioned several time "i will touch my followers's dust  who are committed to remeber Waheguru Ji."  Guru Nanak Dev ji is very humble to his followers. So as Shri Guru Gobind Singh Ji says"I am Guru and chella to my sikhs"that is why He was the best leader and Guru.

so stop complaing about this man let people decide weather to follow pr not. mind your business and look at your own life if you are truly practicing sikhism than busy gethring people gaianst this amn. to whom i do not know my selfbut i am sure he is not doing anything illegal. understand we do not belive in extremism. live and let live.


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## jasi (Nov 5, 2006)

*Re: 'Sant Baba' Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale - A preacher or a fake holyman?*

if i was him i will tell you to understand yourself first.people are not stupid and only you and other people like you to listen this so called sant's preachings. they are satisfied by listening him and giving the money than the gurudwaras for their collections. 

it is old saying"rectify yourself than rectifying the rest of the world" today we are iving in free world each person has a right to do or think the way they want. what is your problem?

stop doing this beacuse in the past when people who wanted a respect did not get it . they open thier own preaching center like radhaswami.nirankairri or others.this was all our faults of our narrow thinking which against the real basics principals of sikhism. extreeminism of any kindis very distructive like creating khalistan  from india . Guru teg bahudar is still remmembered as Hind Ki Chaddar who gave his life for our hindu brother from whome we are fighting to separate. think?


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## jasi (Nov 5, 2006)

*Re: 'Sant Baba' Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale - A sikh parchaaric or a fake holy man?*

you are right. we have not followed or our so called did not preached us and livied up to our gurus expactaions.

-cast systems(no cast system in our relegion)

-Guru Gibind Singh Ji dismantle all the cast made all of us like brothers ,sisters called Singh and Kaur for the womens

-mathatakena to man- made pictures like idol pooja

-arti utarna

these are the pillras on which our faith started to grow. wher is that today?

think.


rsingh said:


> Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh
> 
> What does linage give you or anyone else? its saying same thing as caste. just because your born into a certain family or way of life does not mean you will be rich or work in a certain proffesion. same as you will not gain instand Mutie for being born into a certain family!
> 
> ...


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 5, 2006)

Gurfateh

Das used term Linage for temporal linage and nothing to do with family.Ie link since Guru paseed from one baba into another.


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## SikhUSA (Nov 8, 2006)

Guru Fateh,
Sangat Satgur Bakhshan Haar!

Dear Friends! 
I am lil late in this conversession, but I would like to say that, Sant Dhadrianwale is only 23 yrs old and in this lil age, he has given right path to thousands of hundred people. No matter what he is, No matter who he is, I would say he is doing the real seva of Sikh Panth. We all should help him, not critisize him. 
I would say that people of the age of Guru Gobind Singh ji, critisized Guru Sahib too. Dont take me wrong, I am not comparing Guru Sahib and Sand Dhadrianwale. But we all should analyze the givings of Sant Dhadrianwale to our Panth. 
Last decision is all yours, Das just requesting. 

Guru Fateh.


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## jasmeet2k (Nov 15, 2006)

This Is The Problem With Sikhs , This Young Guy Who Is Preaching Sikhishim, Man He Is Not Telling Ppls To Go To Pubs Drink Beer, He Is Preaching The Path Of Gurbani And Guru Nanak. Look At The Brighter Side


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## jasmeet2k (Nov 15, 2006)

SikhUSA said:


> Guru Fateh,
> Sangat Satgur Bakhshan Haar!
> 
> Dear Friends!
> ...


I AGREE WITH YOU BRO


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## jasi (Nov 15, 2006)

please ubderstand that you are 100% right, people do not realize if has this chrisma of getting people listen to him and his teaching ,there must be some thing in him.  too bad because others so called saint are getting less attention and jealous with this man. this is not new .it will pass.if you do not want to listen or attend his audances then do not go but do not  critisize him . you know who you are and what you are capable of?

jaspi


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## Sikh_Soulja (Nov 15, 2006)

This guy came to my house last summer while he was in calgary.  Lets say he's not allowed in calgary no more, there was a riot at the gurdwara and my homeboys dad who is known in the gurdwara was so vocal on not letting him enter.  Wether he is fake or not i have no idea, seemed alright to me, but only god can judge him.


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## parmindersinghaziz (Jun 5, 2007)

*Re: 'Sant Baba' Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale - A sikh parchaaric or a fake holy man?*

Gurfateh!!

Hundred percent agree with you ji!!!

Regards
Parminder Singh Aziz



Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> what a lame argument...? Since they are in UNI....didnt their dads and grand dads ever go to school ? I am sure they come from a long line of "school goers"... but they still "need" to go to school ??
> 
> Every SIKH...MUST go through the Khanda Batta Da PAHUL ceremony in order to complete the Process of SIKHEE. No body is EXEMPTED...just look at GURU GOBIND RAI JI...inspite of being GURU like the previous ones..Guru nanak ji- Guru Teg Bahadur Ji...HE Knelt before the Panj and took Khande Batte da PAHUL and became GURU GOBIND SINGH JI.
> 
> ...


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## parmindersinghaziz (Jun 5, 2007)

Sikh_Soulja said:


> This guy came to my house last summer while he was in calgary.  Lets say he's not allowed in calgary no more, there was a riot at the gurdwara and my homeboys dad who is known in the gurdwara was so vocal on not letting him enter.  Wether he is fake or not i have no idea, seemed alright to me, but only god can judge him.



Isn't it escapism? We are heirs of the Guru and we as the Panth members are to find out who is fake and who is not on KASAUTI of Gurbani so that we know how these rogues are playing with emotions of innocent, foolish masses.


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## jasmeet2k (Jun 5, 2007)

WJKWJF

i not a follower of baba ranjit singh , but im not againt this guy. what ever he is doing he is preaching guru granth sahib,  he has achived a lot at  very young age, i just want to say look at him from positive point of view. we should not trust any misleading information. At least he not draining sikh peoples like dera sacha sauda baba has done.


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## parmindersinghaziz (Jun 5, 2007)

jasmeet2k said:


> WJKWJF
> 
> i not a follower of baba ranjit singh , but im not againt this guy. what ever he is doing he is preaching guru granth sahib,  he has achived a lot at  very young age, i just want to say look at him from positive point of view. we should not trust any misleading information. At least he not draining sikh peoples like dera sacha sauda baba has done.



Wah ji wah

Sangtaan kolon matthe tikaai janda... kihnu jodi janda guru naal??? aah vekho
YouTube - Ranjit Singh Dhandriyawala

Regadrs
Parminder Singh


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## spnadmin (Jun 5, 2007)

Respected all,

From the youtube video, here are some concerns one can have about what one sees.

The royal robes that are very fancy and not as you would see on sevadors and so forth at Harimandir Sahib. They are very ornate, with even a special sequined turban.

He is collecting money personally when offerings are generally given to the Guru, in front of the Guru in fact, and not to a person in royal robes.

His tendency to bless through physical touching of the people who come to him with such yearning in their eyes.

None of this is as important as what he has as his message. Ask yourself these questions.

Is he claiming to know more about your spiritual operating system than you do?

Does he say that you, and everyone else is a spiritual mess, and your spiritual hard-drive is going to crash if it hasn't crashed already?

Does he say that he can solve your problem because he has a direct network connection with God? He is the only user interface that you can depend on.

Does he require perfect obedience to his spiritual protocol?

Does he keep a staff around him to enforce his network solution?

If you said yes to one or more of the questions above, then watch out.

God is always cheerful, nonethless.


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## jasmeet2k (Jun 5, 2007)

parmindersinghaziz said:


> Wah ji wah
> 
> Sangtaan kolon matthe tikaai janda... kihnu jodi janda guru naal??? aah vekho
> YouTube - Ranjit Singh Dhandriyawala
> ...


peace and respect to all
some points i want to discuss about the video 
1. the host's beard is trimmed. the one who dont respect the sikhism how can he point out others.
2. sangat babe nu guru grant sahib de presence wich matha nahe tak rahe
3.even if he accect gift , there is no harm in it. all the money he gets are used in langer ...bhai sahib ji Langer free nahe bannda.
4. if he ask sangat to raise there hands in kirtan darban . bhai sahab eh banda "josh" jaga rea eh sangat wich , means evey one involve in the kirtan . other wise i have seen peoples sleeping in kirtan darbar.
5. if he has done some by mistake , bhai sahib ji he is insan after all and all human being commint mistakes at some time or other.
6. even if sangat babe nu matha tek rahe eh , man there is no harm in it after all he a saint and there is no harm in bowing in front of sant.
7. some ppl get bharam knowledge at young age. we should be proud of him that at this young age he is showing the path of sikhism to innocent ppls , who can be easiley tapped by ppls like sirsa wale jootha baba.
8. final point is if we keep on fighting ppls like gurmit ram rahim singh will get benift from rift within sikhism............
mere point nu depth naal samjho .............
guru da sikh


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## parmindersinghaziz (Jun 5, 2007)

jasmeet2k said:


> peace and respect to all


To you too


jasmeet2k said:


> some points i want to discuss about the video


Zaroor ji


jasmeet2k said:


> 1. the host's beard is trimmed. the one who dont respect the sikhism how can he point out others.


Please look the video again. The host has a tied beard, not trimmed.


jasmeet2k said:


> 2. sangat babe nu guru grant sahib de presence wich matha nahe tak rahe


Tusi janaab othe hi ho? Guru sahib di hazuri ton bina othe ki kar riha hai majlis vich?


jasmeet2k said:


> 3.even if he accect gift , there is no harm in it. all the money he gets are used in langer ...bhai sahib ji Langer free nahe bannda.


Langar har gurudware ch banda veer ji... te iss tarah main te ajj tak ni vekhya koi banda paise lainda hoya... chalo paise da chhaddo.... gifts da vi langar chalda??


jasmeet2k said:


> 4. if he ask sangat to raise there hands in kirtan darban . bhai sahab eh banda "josh" jaga rea eh sangat wich , means evey one involve in the kirtan . other wise i have seen peoples sleeping in kirtan darbar.


Ja ke dekho kinne ohna chon ik duuje nu vekh ke has rahe hone.... Guru sahibaan ne jo maryada ditti ohda koi maayna nahin tuhadi nazar ch? kal nu eh taadiyan vajaaun lagge sangat ton ta tusi te ehi keh dena ki eh ta ji sangat kolon appreciate karva riha.


jasmeet2k said:


> 5. if he has done some by mistake , bhai sahib ji he is insan after all and all human being commint mistakes at some time or other.


Te bhai mann'ni te chahidi aa na galti... ki gall tusi badi side lai rahe sant (???) dhadrianwale di??


jasmeet2k said:


> 6. even if sangat babe nu matha tek rahe eh , man there is no harm in it after all he a saint and there is no harm in bowing in front of sant.


Rehit maryada parho veer ji... phir te radha swami vaale vi khud nu sant kehnde, sirse vaale vee, nirankari vi te namdhari vi... kithe kithe sir jhukaaoge?

JIS DAR PE NA JHUKE SAR USEY DAR NAHIN KEHTE
JO HAR DAR PE JHUK JAAYE USEY SAR NAHIN KEHTE



jasmeet2k said:


> 7. some ppl get bharam knowledge at young age. we should be proud of him that at this young age he is showing the path of sikhism to innocent ppls , who can be easiley tapped by ppls like sirsa wale jootha baba.


There is no difference in the two. Public da te dono hi khich rahe ne... 



jasmeet2k said:


> 8. final point is if we keep on fighting ppls like gurmit ram rahim singh will get benift from rift within sikhism............


Veer... Sikhi individuals da ik panthic dharm hai... jis ch har kise nu effort karni paindi aa challan di... te jeehne nahin chalna, oh apne aap koi baba labh lainda hai... phir sirse vaala ya koi radha soami koshish kare ya na kare.... Je apne andar sikhi pakki aa koi boota nahin patt sakda.



jasmeet2k said:


> mere point nu depth naal samjho .............


Ki samjhaiye iss vichon samjha deo ji



jasmeet2k said:


> guru da sikh


KEHRE GURU DA SIKH??? Guru Granth te nahin samjhaunde iss tarah da kujh jo tusi keh rahe ho.

Regards
Parminder Singh


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## manbir (Jun 6, 2007)

Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

I donot understand why this SANT of Dhandrian, cannot live like a normal Sikh and do Kirtan like a normal Sikh. Where is the need to form a Dera of unemployed people living on the offerings of Sangat !!

The people in these deras composed to those who are good for nothing in all aspects of Graheth Life. These bunch of parasites are not capable to  earning their own living and for their families. Theie Lives are contarary to all teachings of Guru Nanak.
This SANT is not able to do a nirool Gurbani Kirtan. He needs Cheap compositions of Tuk bandi to sing and present it as Gurbani Kirtan.

Certainly we do not need such parcharaks.
Most of the inmates of these Deras are addicted to one form of intoxicant or the other. I have seen it clearly myself. I have first hand information of the way of life these Dera wallas live. 

To tell you the truth - There is no difference between these deras and the Sacha Sauda Dera !!!
All these Deras are at different level of evolution. Their  aims and goals are all same.


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## jasmeet2k (Jun 6, 2007)

mae guru gobing singh ji da eh sikh eh brother..
mae babe da follower nahe hega 
tuse thode jaye........thode nahe bhut he narrow minded ho thoda khul ke socho.


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## parmindersinghaziz (Jun 7, 2007)

jasmeet2k said:


> mae guru gobing singh ji da eh sikh eh brother..
> mae babe da follower nahe hega
> tuse thode jaye........thode nahe bhut he narrow minded ho thoda khul ke socho.




Veer merya... asin tuhade jehe broad-minded hon naalon eho jehe narrow-minded hi changey haan.... rehit nu na mann'na te Guru sahibaan de kahe te na chalna je broad-mindedness te high-mindedness hai te eh dono tuhanu mubarak.


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## hchohan (Jun 7, 2007)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa - Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I have read through this entire thread and have noted the following points of controversy surrounding Bhai Ranjit Singh within Guru Panth.
1./ Use of the term Sant/Baba.
2./ People do matha tek to him.
3./ Singing of taarna at samagam.
4./ Is he fake..?

On Point 1 - Use of the term Sant/Baba
What title people address him by is THEIR choice.  My choice is Bhai or just Ranjit Singh.  He has never asked to be addressed by that term and has clearly said in many samgams along the lines of "lok Sant kaye jan - apne aap na banje" as that means pride.  If it is truly in his power to remove the title from adverts/cd's then he should do so.

On point 2 - People do matha tek to him.
Again he has never encouraged that in any samagam.  People go to Parmeshardwar Gurdwara by CHOICE if they CHOOSE to matha tek how do you stop them?  He has always stated to matha tek to SGGS only.

On point 3 - Singing of taarna at samagam.
I skim listened to a sanagam at Calcutta in 2004 titled Panj Pyarean Di Chon.  Below are the tarna's sang at in that recording (please excuse my spelling)

1./ tere sukha de sagine sare - te dukha vich kio na vane
2./ yaare parkehe yarrane de - jado marr pave talwaaran de
3./ chal chaleye Anandpur nu - kete melje Kalgiyan Wala/Bhajan Wala
4./ chalo Singho ral darshan kareye Guru Gobind Singh ayae ne
5./ neela khora bha ka joora hath vich baaj sajahe ne
6./ janam Guran da Patna Sahib Da - Anandpur Dere lahe ne
7./ Pita Guran da Teg Bahadur - Mata Gurju jaye ne
8./ Baar oyna Kalgiyan Wale ne/Bhajan Wale ne - Sangat kare reyke
9./ lashkare pende chakaran de - Ayge Kalgiyan Wale
10./ tere pyare ............ - Guran da mukh chand warega
11./ Sevek bada hunda hai - sevek banja sevek banja
12./ kerra chaluga Guran de chaal pyareyo kerra chaluga 
13./ Sir tarke tali te ave - esa koi uthe soorma
14./ ek Sikh de lorr hai mainu - peda jo charave sis de
15./ kahatam kardo ga Sikhu nu Mata poliye..? Jaake samajale lal nu
16./ loka nera maloon - khelon na janeya
17./ tetho Rab thageya nai jaane - dunia nu thagan walia
18./ Dasme Pita diyaan kushiyan je lhenia - Khanda Wala Amrit pe
19./ pela kut pareya te akhan kul jandia - pata nai oh bhate vich ke
20./ he then said they finish off with Anand Sahib, Ardas & Hukumnama

All of these were sang in context of the lecture and saaki (history) he was talking about.   Sangat were encouraged to participate as a way of connecting themselves more to the lecture/saaki.  Personnaly I cannot see how these constitute as Baani - kachi or real..?  Can someone please explain.
We used to sing many of those "tarna" above in langar way before bhai Ranjit Singh came around.

Point 4 - Is he fake.?
Personally I think Ranjit Singh has done a fantastic job or waking up Sikhs around the world to how to be a better Sikh.  That is the principal of all his lectures.  The other great benefit he had brought is the correct telling of Sikh History sakhi.  In the above samagam he clearly explained the correct history of the birth of the Khalsa (inc the actual severing and then resurrection of the Panj Pyare) in a way that everyone could understand and "feel". 
He has taught that Amrit Sanchaar and Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are the ultimate and only goal that the sangat should pursue.  
His lectures advise people on how to be a better Sikh and this has changed people's lives forever.

He has expreesed the core Sikh values to the sangat - Naam Japna and Kirat Karna.  One of his samagams I have on CD is the whole sangat doing 2 hours of Naam Simran.  How wonderful is that.

He has lectured people and given examples to avoid the 5 evils (Kaam, Krodh, Lob, Moh, Ahankar) and lectured on the 5 virtues (Sat, Santokh, Pyar, Daya, Nimrata).  He has done this in ways people can relate to and understand - from addicts in the pinds to western born kids around the world.

Is this really the description of a fake..??


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## jasi (Jun 7, 2007)

s.s.akal ji.


why waist time worry about others . Instead of mending others please mend yourself. Leave every thing upto Him and repeat the Nam of that Waheguru ji.

Thanks

Jaspal


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## jay (Dec 26, 2007)

Khalsa ji,

The thing is, rite, that Bhindranwale left such a high standard for sants to follow that I reckon we're gunna scrutinize each and every sant that crosses our path, having said that, this Dandiwala sant has no chance. I mean, he's a bit podgy for starters, compared with Bhindranwales physical martial bearing. I aint no gurmukh, far from it, I've been brought up in a family full of anti-panthic tarkhans , but even I can tell a true sant like Bhindranwale to an all-day parotha eating chubster.

If the sangat is stupid enough to be fooled by this bloke then what can we do? All the best to him is all I can say.

Vayu Khalsa Vayu Fateh


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## jasi (Dec 27, 2007)

please get serious in life and do not go after these manuplated sants or other leadrers who can put our own Harminder Sahib on the spot and brought such a insult happened in 1984 for their own self motivated goals. just remeber what Guru Nanak sahib ji taught us.NAM JAPO AND DO GOOD DEEDS AND LEAVE THE REST WITH GOD.MANY CAME AND WENT BUT LEFT NO LINGERING MEMEORY.

jaspai


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## manbir (Dec 27, 2007)

We are shamlessly becoming the followers of one Sant or the other. Its because we have developed inherent tendency to become escapists when following the teachings of our Guru is concerned. Just because we do not want to follow our Guru we find a Sant here or a Sant there not realizing that our Guru is the only SANT we have to follow. This escapist tendency in us is due to our weak moral status and genetic longing for Idol worship !!
May Guru bless us with enough wisdom to follow Just One Guru in the search of Just One Almighty.


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## Astroboy (Dec 27, 2007)

manbir said:


> Just because we do not want to follow our Guru we find a Sant here or a Sant there not realizing that our Guru is the only SANT we have to follow. This escapist tendency in us is due to our weak moral status and genetic longing for Idol worship !!
> May Guru bless us with enough wisdom to follow Just One Guru in the search of Just One Almighty.


 
Manbir Ji,

What other reasons would you provide for not following a dehdhari guru or sant ?


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 18, 2011)

I think the following says *all that needs to be said to me,*

TRuTH oF BaBa DhinDRi {PaRT 1} DhaDriaN WaLa SaaDH} kalgi
YouTube        - TRuTH oF BaBa DhinDRi {PaRT 1} DhaDriaN WaLa SaaDH} kalgi

What incredible exploitation of Sikhi saroop from people who can perhaps ill afford it in the first people?

Where are real Sant-Sipahis when you really need them :angryyoungkaur::angryyoungsingh:

Regards,

Sat Sri Akal.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Mar 2, 2011)

I feel every one here has expressed great dissatisfaction  regarding the person in question.
If we critically analyse the ROOT CAUSE of all such happenings we would find that we ourselves are not enough familiar with the teachings of SGGS .And the negative results are before us.
In fact the most misunderstood and the most misused word of gurbaani is the word SANT.No body should be ever reffered as SANT other than SGGS only then we should express any kind of dissatisfaction towards any such so called Saints.
Can we do this ?
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 2, 2011)

prakash s. bagga ji thanks for your posts.

We do need to call "a spade a spade" before we go on our benevolent ways which are amply exploited also by the same Babbas/Sants/Maharaj/etc.  Let us revisit the thread title,

*Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale - A Sikh Preacher or a Fake?*




*A Sikh Preacher*
NO

 
*or a Fake?*
YES
 
Let us not generalize too much in favor of these crooks.  Anybody can open a shop and the curious will walk in.  These are evil merchants and if they were selling and using same tricks to sell "Fake Khoya" or "Fake Ghee" they will be in jail and paraded around.

Some comments on the following,



> we ourselves are not enough familiar with the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji .
> 
> Prakash S. Bagga ji you are a wonderful person of great mind and I like your posts.  Please don't use the word "we" as it definitely does not apply to you or most of the people here at SPN.  A more appropriate sentence  woould have been,"He is not enough familiar with the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ."
> ​Even that will be generous.
> ...


Please this is not your criticism as I hold you in high regard and as a person of knowledge and level mind.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Mar 2, 2011)

*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NILrWYqebk&feature=related*

*
*

*
*

*IF there was still some doubts left.....this should seal it fast. Just watch a Fake SANT use Harsh language, abusive and how his chelas shout and are so angry and KRODHEE HANKAREE !!*

*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v<wbr>=2NILrWYqebk&feature=related*


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## prakash.s.bagga (Mar 3, 2011)

AMBARSARIA Ji,
DIVNE GREETINGS,
I feel humbled with your remarks and I shall see how I can improve my presentstion.

I just mentioned about the ROOT CAUSE of the problem.As a matter of fact in presence of SGGS where is the need for any one being reffered as SANT or BABA.?
It is equally important to know as to when the practice of reffering any person as SANT was introduced in Sikh Philosophy.Did any of our GURUS ever adorned any person with such reference.The answer to the present problem lies in knowing this .
I am witnessing such thimgs very common in India.So if we have any problem this should be eradicated from the root otherwise the problem will remain as such.
Today we have one ,tomorrow we may have many.This isjust my own perception about we are discussing in this thread.
With best wishes

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Harry Haller (Jun 10, 2011)

These are very clever enlightened people who have decided to use that enlightenment for themselves instead of acting as a guide to god, instead they think they are god


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## Randip Singh (Jun 10, 2011)

YouTube        - ‪FUNNY ::Babbu Maan Song controversy‬&rlm;

:interestedmunda:


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## Breeb (Jun 10, 2011)

harry haller said:


> These are very clever enlightened people who have decided to use that enlightenment for themselves instead of acting as a guide to god, instead they think they are god


 
If one cares to watch any of the numerous programs on the Sikh Channels by Ranjit Singh then one would not make the above statement. It is quite plain to see that Ranjit Singh only attaches the sangat to Guru Granth Sahib Ji.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 10, 2011)

Pic 1...the Root casue of all evil....USD !!
Pic 2..the result of having all that USD....HAUMAII strong enough for one to rise ABOVE the Guru !! Just as Ram rahim Sirsa did in copycat 1699 act...here dhadriwallah attempts to put chakras 0 HALOS around his head in a public media ad...to copycat pics of Gurus....
3.pic 3 shows the behind the scenes links...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 11, 2011)

The SIKH GURUS NEVER attempted to ATTACH people to their ownselves/bodies etc...that is why there is no "Guru History" in the SGGS written by the Gurus. Its all about the CREATOR...How to FIND HIM..and How to attain HIM..and what is the RESULT of attaining HIM or Failing to do that. Each successor GURU moved on to a new place, spreading the MESSAGE....Guru Angad LEFT Kartarpur of GURU NANAK and the Sangats left along with him...Guru Amardass Ji left Khadoor sahib and went to GOINDWAAL..and the sangats followed....and so on..Finally by the time Harmandar sahib/darbar sahib/Amrtisar was established..the UPDESH or GURBANI had been compiled into the POTHI SAHIB and Parkashed. Guru ARJUN JI..the "Human Body Guru" STOPPED seating himslef at PAR with the POTHI SAHIB..and sleeping on a "bed" but BELOW the POTHI SAHIB to show the REAL GURU is the UPDESH and NOT the Body (deh).

The SGGS fits the Bill for the Perfect satgur, poora satgur becasue it has no HUMAN FAILINGS..it needs no foods, no baths and no massages, no seva of rubbing its tired feet etc etc which a human body needs and relishes (sants LOVE this esp if the Bibis do it and hence the SCANDALS ). EACH and every word in the SGGS..POINTS like a SIGNBOARD at the CREATOR..exactly what the 10 living human Gurus TAUGHT and collected from previous sants and bhagats like Kabir Ji, farid Ji etc..visible proof that ATTAINING HIM is not the speciality/perogrative/privilege of any caste/region/race/rich/poor/status/royalty/beggar..etc etc...and every HUMAN BORN is entitled to learn how to attain HIM and attain HIM in PRACTISE !!

Its Commonly said ( by those who beleive in dehdharee gurus and sants babas mahapurahss) that the SGGS cannot speak..cannot convey its message..cannot walk about etc etc..) This are FALLACIOUS arguments dhuchars !! On the Contrary..I would say the Sggs cannot molest any female.male follower..cannot rape any female follower, cannot insult nayone, cannot scold anyone,,cannot murder anyone, cannot refuse to be present and open to be read at any time any place by anyone, cannot grab your property, cannot rob and plunder its followers, cannot be jealous..cannot curse and swear...cannot take away your food and water..demand respect..demand gifts......SO ALL THE NEGATIVE ASPECTS of a HUMAN are BEYOND the SGGS..BUT the POSITIVE ASPECTS are ALL PRESENT....hence the SGGS is the PERFECT GURU of all time that Guru nanak ji GIFTED US via Guur Arjun Ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji in all wisdom. The poorest of the poor can go to any Gurdawra, sit beside the SGGS, open and read to his hearts desire..and not pay a single cent...futtee kauddee..TRY THAT with a Dhadrianwallah or Pehova Vallah and see what happens ???


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## Breeb (Jun 11, 2011)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> ..and not pay a single cent...futtee kauddee..TRY THAT with a Dhadrianwallah or Pehova Vallah and see what happens ???


 
Actually I have, on many occasions, and no one demanded any futtee kaudee. Just katha and love of the Guru.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Jun 11, 2011)

It is very easy to open a showroom in the name of GURU .
It is just impossible to do so in the name of GUR.
So we should think of connecting ourselves with the GUR of GURU Granth Sahib Ji.
Such showrooms would get automatically closed.
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## prakash.s.bagga (Jun 11, 2011)

Such persons  clever only.We establish them as enlightened and that is why they are there.

Prakash.s.bagga


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## Harry Haller (Jun 11, 2011)

Breeb said:


> Actually I have, on many occasions, and no one demanded any futtee kaudee. Just katha and love of the Guru.



Breebji, 

I have only seen the one video of this preacher, and watching people touch his feet, in my humble view, makes me feel very uneasy about what exactly he is preaching. Did not Guru Nanak say that anyone who worshiped him would be on the wrong path, clearly here this does not apply......


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## Harry Haller (Jun 11, 2011)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> Such persons  clever only.We establish them as enlightened and that is why they are there.
> 
> Prakash.s.bagga



I disagree ji, I think they are enlightened, I think that they have pursued that enlightenment with a personal agenda, and they have obtained it, although not 100% enlightenment, they clearly know enough tricks and smoke and mirrors to abuse that power. The one thing that these people could not, didnt want to, or have not conquered is the ego.


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## Breeb (Jun 11, 2011)

Who amongst us has conquered ego? You? Me? Who?

The reason why people despise Ranjit Singh is that he turns people to Gurmat and to Guru Granth Sahib Ji and they do not like this. Jealousy is a terrible thing. 


Do we not touch the feet of our mother and father ? Do we not touch the feet of our grandparents? Do we not touch the feet of some old relative who comes to our house? Even though that old person may be have no jeevan at all and may be a boozer still we touch his feet out of respect. Then why the who-haa about touching the feet of a Gursikh? 

Sikhs flock to those Gursikhs who are honoured by the Guru but manmukhs despise this, they cannot stand this, rather then put their own house in order they go on the jealousy offensive and ruin what little they have......... carry on my friends, carry on.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 11, 2011)

Breeb said:


> Who amongst us has conquered ego? You? Me? Who?
> 
> The reason why people despise Ranjit Singh is that he turns people to Gurmat and to Guru Granth Sahib Ji and they do not like this. Jealousy is a terrible thing.
> 
> ...



Guru Ji wrote in Sukhmani Sahib..Manukh ki TEK birtha jaan...to depend on a HUMAN is BIRTHA..useless.

Note: this tuk stands by itself...even the entire shabad/pauree/ashtpadee says the same thing. It means a HUMAN CANNOT save us..cannot accompany us to jamraaj Court where we will be judged..only His Naam does that and Naam is in SGGS..  so Carry on touching human feet  carry on...to each his own...i would rather read Gurbani and Vichaar the Shabad instead of hearing two liner JINGLES called Dhaarna to replace Gurbani...


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## Harry Haller (Jun 11, 2011)

Breeb said:


> Who amongst us has conquered ego? You? Me? Who?
> 
> The reason why people despise Ranjit Singh is that he turns people to Gurmat and to Guru Granth Sahib Ji and they do not like this. Jealousy is a terrible thing.
> 
> ...



Breebji, no i have not conquered ego, but then I am quite honest about my own failings, and more importantly, I am not trying to pass myself off as a Baba. 

Yes, I still touch my parents feet, and they bless me, and my wife, however, that is because they are my parents and I see god in them. You could argue that people see god in this baba, well, if they do, than the baba is failing in his duty as a man of god, it is his duty to rectify this situation and point people towards the almighty in themselves, not worship the god within the baba. 

Any sikh can find the way without a baba, because each individuals journey varies with different life experiences, the only person that can guide you to the creator is yourself. Yes, you can take on board ideals and philosophies from other people, and they may inspire you, but in the end, it is a journey with only two people on it. You and the Creator.

With enlightenment comes wisdom, I am surprised that this Baba does not have enough wisdom to realise the public perceptions that he is encouraging with what could well be his only failing, his ego, as you yourself have already admitted,  however, human nature teaches us that if it looks bad, smells bad, it probably is bad, and suddenly that one failing is on top of a list of much more serious failings. If you want to put yourself up there, might it make sense to ensure you are as clean and holy as you can be, and try and be careful with what you choose or refuse to condone


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## prakash.s.bagga (Jun 11, 2011)

Harry Haller ji,
I like your message of journey being  by oneself towards theCreator.
In Gurbaani the term Manmukh is clearly defined as
"Manmukh so jo SABADu Naa Pachchanaee" pp1054SGGS
Once we clearly grasp the messages of Gurbaani then only we can be clear about the need of any person required as mediator between anyone and the Creator.
Frankly speaking I have not met so far giving the knowledge about SABADu other than SGGS ji.
Similarly from Gurbaani we come to know that it is only SATIGURu  for gifting the NAAMu
No person can claim to give you NAAMu Any one doing so is refered as Moorakh and Gaawar.
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 11, 2011)

Breeb said:


> Actually I have, on many occasions, and no one demanded any futtee kaudee. Just katha and love of the Guru.



Thats becasue you went there as a memebr of the public...as I can go to a Public Rally of Obama..BUT IF i want Obama to pay me a visit ?? EACH programme of the Bab is FUNDED by soemone..some Gurdwara...

Try asking baba Dhadri to come to your house and do a kirtan/katha programme and see if he wnats a futtee kaudde or more ?? Try to invite him for a programme at the Gurdwara ?? and see how much he wants..
*A secretary of a Gurdwara* in the USA told me this... "...and it was my job to collect the bheta and put it in a plastic bag and give it to the Bhai leader of kirtan jathas etc )
Once this Dhadree baba came and I packed the huge pile of USD into a bag and went to give it to him..he replied I dont touch money...so i told him..take it or I place it in front of the Gurdwara Goluck..he looked at me and saw it in my eyes..quickly grabbed the bag and placed it under his knee.which baba you knoiw gives back all the bheta to the Gurdwara they do kirtan in ?? Not a single one...thats futtee kauddee for you..they are all broken kaudee worth.
No offense meant or taken..beyond that..


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## prakash.s.bagga (Jun 11, 2011)

GIYANI JURNAIL SINGH Ji,
I have great respect and consideration for your views.I am sure you are fully aware 
where the actual problem is.As a matter of fact somewhere you would realise our 
our preachers and scholars have not done justice with the spreading of knowledge of Gurbaani as envisaged in SGGS ji.
Above this we created a system where most the people are loyal to the persons even in presenceof SGGS ji.This is because we never told people the real significance of SGGS and Gurbaani as well.People were attracted towards personalitis for their daily problems.
And because most of the problems are related to finance in a country like India.
It should be surprised to accept that these people have done or are doing financial care of many of people connected with them .And for this definitely funds are required.There should not be harm in accepting or offering the bhetas if theseare properly accounted for.This is not possible with every one.
So there are multidimensional aspects related to this problem .So unless people are made to understand clearly that how important is to connect with SGGS only and our communty should come forward with charity as envisaged by our Gurus.Nothing is going to change.
Prakash.s.bagga


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## Harry Haller (Jun 11, 2011)

Having dug a bit deeper, it appears Ranjit Singh did apologise for allowing people to touch his feet, it has been put down to his youth. 

On the one hand any figure that stands up for sikhism and the sikhi way of life is not a bad thing, I find it distasteful, but only because I would not entrust my faith and put that in the hands of another human, but that's my take, 

Is this man corrupt and does he have his own agenda? I do not know but maybe instead of blaming or judging him, we should blame and judge the people that are in such a desperate need of a baba to bow down before. 

Did Ranjit Singh set out to be bowed before, or is it the fault of the adoring congregation.?

Looking back, I do recall some Baba or other coming to our house, and yes, we all touched his feet. In hindsight, he should have stopped us, but he didnt, he just sort of looked at us with a slightly smug and aloof manner, 

Ranjit Singh is possibly the innocent in this, its the people standing behind him, giving the people in front of him, what THEY desire. 

I do not suppose taking the word of the Guru to the people is easy, Ranjit Singh is in an ideal position to make the most of that position if he were to follow his own heart and remember he is a servant of god, not an equal, and to make every effort to impress that on people


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## dalbirk (Jun 11, 2011)

Breeb said:


> Actually I have, on many occasions, and no one demanded any futtee kaudee. Just katha and love of the Guru.



Breeb Ji ,
                Here are my two cents :
Economics of the Godmen 
I wish to clear some plain facts about the mushrooming growth of Godmen in India 
It is commonly known to us that during elections votes are sold to political parties for a price But the exact modus operandi is unclear to many Here is how it works There are following elections held in India 
1. Panchayat Elections Rate per vote is 5000 to 7000 rs for elections of Panches a furthur expense of 1000 Rs is incurred on the election of Sarpanch among Panches 2. Block Samiti Elections : Rate per vote is 1000 to 2000 , liquor bottles , Poppy husk & few hundered rupees do the trick 3. Muncipal Committee Elections Rate is again 1000 to 2000 per vote same means r used for distribution 4. Muncipal Corporation Elections ( For Big Cities ) Rate is 2000 to 2500 per vote for electing councillors a furthur expense of 500 is made for electing Mayor 5. Lok Sabha Elections Rate is 1000 to 2000 per vote 6 Assembly Elections This is the mother of all elections Rate is 5000 to 8000 per vote morover the winner takes the all important Chief Minister Ship chair So in total a vote costs ( Earns ) Rs 16,000 to 25000 ( 400 USD to 625 USD ) in all 5 years . All the Godmen all they have to do is to invite some political leader to some big SATSANG & that political leader pays his RESPECTS to Godman in front of DEVOTEES The leader gets the unusual big crowd the public gets to see the amount of CLOUT OF BABAJI & to top it all BABAJI gets his share proportionately
Each vote multiplied by 16000 to 25000 Rupees .This BOOTY is in the form of CASH & KIND like land allotment , posting of police officers ,teachers, health workers, transfers of various officials to PLUM places
                                                   So stop all this worshipping of Godmen who are mere parasites living off innocent devotees . Read the religious scriptures for yourself ,do honest deeds, limit your desires do some web surfing to know about the religion we wish to follow get out of rut of a human Baba / Godman  as far as possible.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 11, 2011)

harry Hailer Ji,
have you seen the Newspaper Advertisement pic i posted ? It has three huge flaws and is taken out by the Baba..so he cannot squirm out of it.

1. Point number ONE..the ocassion is a Gurpurab - SHAHEEDEE of Sahib Guru Arjun ji sahib the PREMIER shaheed of Sikhism called Shaeedahn de Sirtaaj....the wording for this Gurpurab is TINY....and the other CONCURRENT programme is the DEATH anniversary of a Human Baba..the wording for that is MUCH BIGGEr and BOLDER than the GURUPURAB wordings.
2. its highly unethical to celebrate a HUMAN DEATH B{censored}E concurrently with a GURPURAB. Means you are EQUATING dead man with the LIVING GURU. KHASMEH KAREH BERABERI mundhihn khutthah jayeh...a slave who tires to be equal with his Master is deadmeat  a goner..useless..

3. The Living Baba places HIS OWN PICTURE..and ADDS Chakras or HALOS on his head...such chakras or halos are usually added on to GURU HEADS...so here again this baba is not only equating his own head wth GURU NANAK SAHIB...hes trying to be equal to his dead baba as well..!!!

So this man "apologised" for the earlier video blaming his "youth"....HA HA..he did that lame excuse after a storm blew up in hsi face on the internet...he had to apologise to clam things down...

Shall we WAIT for his apology over this Advertisement...is he getting YOUNGER..and will again blame it on his youth ?? And by the wya..this ad is NOT the Firts...there have been many many such simialr types of hoardings, posters etc...BUT then some will never see...

Gurbani delcares..Call them not BIND..whose eyes are naturally defective/damaged thru accident/disease etc....Call them BLIND..those who have Perfect eyes, 20/20 vision..healthy vision..BUT REFUSE TO SEE..those are the REAL BLIND.:grinningkaur::grinningkaur::grinningkaur::grinningkaur::grinningkaur:


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## Breeb (Jun 11, 2011)

<<<<<  I am surprised that this Baba does not have enough wisdom to realise the public perceptions that he is encouraging with what could well be his only failing,  >>>>><?"urn:fficeffice" />
Sant and sansaari never meet. The path of the sant is separate and at a higher level than that of a sansaari. Sants follow AkaalPurkhs calling and go about their business according to AkaalPurkhs wishes, they need not - and they do not – concern themselves what the public or sansaar thinks about them or their activities. The public is fickle and shallow; today you are flavour of the month tomorrow they will do the worst nindia of you – EH SANSAAR BEHKAAR.
I am surprised that so called intellectuals on forums cannot distinguish between kuchi-bani and Dharna. 
Dharna never purports to be bani, it has never tried to be like bani, it does not try to deceive that it is bani. It is simple couplets for simple people of the pinds, where it started. If it has never tried to assimilate itself into bani , if it has never tried to pass itself off as bani then how can it be kachi-bani?
<o> </o>
Ranjit Singh has established a hospital and dispensary that is free to the public. Funny how nobody mentions this, but I am sure people will find criticism in this also. These things do not run themselves.
<o> </o>
Sukhmani Sahib touches on many things at one point it sings the virtues of the pandit, at another of the bramgiani and at another the Sadhu. These are of specific persons honoured by AkaalPurkh and not praises about akaalPurkh Himself.
<o> </o>
saaDh kee mahimaa barnai ka-un paraanee. 
What mortal can speak of the Glorious Praises of the Holy? 
naanak saaDh kee sobhaa parabh maahi samaanee. ||1|| 
O Nanak, the glory of the Holy people merges into God. ||1||  
<o> </o>
This is how much Guru Arjun Dev Ji praises the holy and the sangat of the holy. Ranjit Singh has nothing to apologise for.


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## Breeb (Jun 11, 2011)

Is Guru Arjun Dev ji's name not prominent and at the top ? Just need any reason to critisize.


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## Harry Haller (Jun 11, 2011)

Gyaniji, 

I think there is a line to be crossed which distinguishes between a man of god and a charlatan. 

What I do not understand, is that if this man was a charlatan, surely he would make every effort NOT to draw attention to himself by doing the very things you have outlined. 

To stand on a pedestal and raise yourself above the defined Gurus is an act of utter ego. But it is also an act that must be dealt with. 

There are many sikh factions that like to think they are the true sikh way, a little tweak here, and adjustment there, ahhh that fits perfectly, take the nirankaris, etc. 

What should we do, what can we do, easy nothing. What we should not do is malign these people, it only gives them more fuel, more publicity, and I do not see why I should waste valuable time and effort convincing people that following a man instead of the creator is not the path to enlightenment. There are fools that will will always follow the charm and personality of man rather than have strong but blind faith only for a god that you can feel in your heart, well good luck to them, it would be like trying to suggest being teetotal to a pub full of hard core drinkers. 

With pride comes a fall, when the fall comes we must be there for all misguided brothers and sisters rather than saying 'i told you so'.


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## Harry Haller (Jun 11, 2011)

Breebji, 

As well as peoples intentions are, what matters is what fuels these intentions. We all the know the story of Guruji with the paratha of the farmer in one hand and the poori of the rich businessman in the other, after squeezing, one had drops of blood, the other milk. 

This is my last post on this subject, as I find sikhs arguing against sikhs very very saddening, but if Ranjit Singh is not able to project and act in a way that is in complete harmony with what the SGGS states, then we can only assume that these blasphemies are only the tip of the iceberg. 

I find it saddening, personally speaking, I think Ranjit Singh is a pious and good soul, however I have extremely grave misgivings about the army of older and more savvy vultures standing behind him, influencing him and manipulating him. 

Gyaniji is correct in that one who downplays ceremonies for the Guru, and virtually hijacks a recognised day, is not singing from the same song sheet as the rest of us, or is being made a puppet by those who do not share his potential ideals and goodness


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## spnadmin (Jun 11, 2011)

Harry ji

I think the question you ask can be addressed by understanding the psychology of a charlatan 



> What I do not understand, is that if this man was a charlatan, surely he would make every effort NOT to draw attention to himself by doing the very things you have outlined.
> 
> To stand on a pedestal and raise yourself above the defined Gurus is an act of utter ego. But it is also an act that must be dealt with.



You are getting close to it, in the second sentence, "utter ego."  Ego is not only a dangerous narcotic. Ego is also the "addicted,"  the addict, the user of the narcotic itself. The interesting thing about this particular addiction is, the stronger addiction to the self gets, the better it is at executive control: organizing and regulating all the other vices, Ego maintains lust, greed, etc. at functional levels so that they work together like a finely tuned machine in service of haumei. For one whose ego is not so well organized, the instinctual vices take command and ultimately ruin the individual. Not so when ego is the master addict and the master addiction. Ego can ramp them up. tone them done, keep them beating, and you have a marvel of ego's engineering ability. 

Ego is not only the drug and the drug addict.  Ego is also like the drug dealer. Ego takes enough for himself, but never so much that he loses control of the ability to manage his followers' dependencies and addictions. They have to stay hooked; he has to manage that properly so they do not stray. 

The seeds of destruction lie right there. At some point all drug dealers are no longer able to maintain that delicate balance. Someone steps in to take over. Sometimes violently. We see this in politics, religion, in history, worldwide, etc. Not limited to Sikhi.

I do not know if Ranjit Baba is all these things either. But it remains essential that we always ask these questions.


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## Randip Singh (Jun 11, 2011)

Breeb said:


> If one cares to watch any of the numerous programs on the Sikh Channels by Ranjit Singh then one would not make the above statement. It is quite plain to see that Ranjit Singh only attaches the sangat to Guru Granth Sahib Ji.




Is the Pope is a Muslim? No it must be true.:interestedsingh:


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## BhagatSingh (Jun 11, 2011)

Once you get into this "Preacher or a Fake" business, you miss out on the wisdom that that preacher or fake could give you.

What's more important to you, the wisdom or making judgements?


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## spnadmin (Jun 11, 2011)

This thread is vectoring in the direction of a  pecking match. Breeb ji if you are considering making SPN your new nest, then prepare to shed your old feathers, and grow new ones. We try very hard to keep the sniping to a minimum. This is my 3rd request to you and your first official warning. Do not make the mistake of quarreling with me either. Thanks.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 11, 2011)

bhagat Ji...On Page 721 of SGGS there is a line about the Simbal Rukh..a TREE that is used many times as an example from nature to explain certain idea put forward..
This TREE is extremely TALL...grows to great heights..but it neither has any branches, or leaves for shade and its fruits look very tempting..BUT are in actual fact hard and shelly when unripe and when they burst open, they reveal patches of very attractive white foam like substance (co{censored} cotton). Birds who come to this tree looking for food or shelter soon realsie their folly..as the tree has neither shade/branches for nesting spots nor edible fruits.
Thsi tree is also mentioned in Asa Ki vaar..
But on Page 721 the Stress is on whiteness as an attraction...towards the Outward DRESS of babas and religious FAKES who attract but sooner or later the chela finds out that the simbal tree has no gunns of any kind..just lots of ego that makes it stand out. But just like some bird or other animal keeps climbing the tree and regretting it..many human babas and fakes keep attracting chelas...thats the way it is..and will always be..
the Hard Core chela will turn around and say..so what..at least the "tree" has some wood in its trunk..or at least the white stuff looks beautiful...and so its is...if someone dearly needs the wood/white stuff its ok..no skin off the duck's back ?? why quarrel..and split..even Guru nanak ji couldnt convince everyone !!!Cheers


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## spnadmin (Jun 12, 2011)

dalbirk said:


> Breeb Ji ,
> Here are my two cents :
> Economics of the Godmen
> I wish to clear some plain facts about the mushrooming growth of Godmen in India
> ...



dalbirk ji

Somehow I missed this yesterday. It is a keeper. Exactly what needs to be laid out for anyone who is sitting on the fence. Thanks.


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## Randip Singh (Jun 12, 2011)

BhagatSingh said:


> Once you get into this "Preacher or a Fake" business, you miss out on the wisdom that that preacher or fake could give you.
> 
> What's more important to you, the wisdom or making judgements?



While you are 100% correct, bare in mind what the 10th Master did to Masands. Whilst I hate back biting, we need to point out where people err from the message from the Guru.

I honestly cannot take Dhadrianwala seriously, hence the funny video's on him. The whole thing he does is like a circus, and he is the main attraction. The clown!!lol


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## Breeb (Jun 12, 2011)

Randip Singh said:


> The clown!!lol


 

Is this not bad manners ?????????


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 12, 2011)

Is calling a "spade"...a spade  "bad" manners ???. I have seen the videos of the reaction Mr. Dhadriwallah in reaction to the babbu mann Song Ek baba nanak see....the "langauge" used by Dhadriwallah was in extremely bad taste, his emotions of anger and disgust ran away...that response ( totally unbecoming of a sant baba holy man godman etc ) by a person who wasnt even NAMED or hinted at by Babbu mann resulted in a epidemic of some CLOWNISH Videos and some downright vulgar ones too playing on dhadriwallah and his style of kirtan. As a SIKH I was deeply hurt by such videos..as for whatever it means he is still a fellow sikh...BUT then I realised he brought it upon himslef by his harsh langauge against babbu mann and making some JUDGEMENTS whcih of course he is NOT qualified to make. Even now ehn someone or my gurbani students come across these Vulgar Videos PAODY of Dhadriawallah i admonish them and tell them it is not good to laugh at this becasue its not funny..BUT the vidoes are Viral and cauisng much damage to Sikhism image as well dhadri's own image.....

A Sant/baba/mahapursh has GOT to remain COOL. COMPOSED, TOLERANT, KIND, COMPASSIONATE, FORGIVING....and mUCH MUCH MORE....and THAT is WHY a Diwan held to celebrate the Shaheedee of someone like GURU ARJUN JI cannot cannot cannot CANNOT be DOWNGRADED/SHARED/ at any cost by a MERE HUMAN..no matter how holy/babaish/mahapurashish/ he may be....NO HUMAN can stand anywhere even NEAR the SUPREME Guru Arjun who sat so calmly, cooly, forgivingly, compassionately..on the HOT Plate and didnt say a word against Chandu..Jehangir..etc etc. KITHEH GURU ARJUN JI,.kitheh Baba Dhadriwallah ?? How can he even dare to share...NO. not share BUT .*DOMINATE* an advert with Guru Arjun ?? Thats why people call a clown a clown...and its NOT bad Manners at all..its the TRUTH.  Publics Perception...is a serious subject..and if the public sees someone as a clown..then he is one..clear and simple...BUT the SANGAT is all forgiving.....and if such mistakes are not repeated...its forgiven anytime...


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## spnadmin (Jun 12, 2011)

The subject has been exhausted. Just about all points of view have been stated more than once. When we get to the point where that is the case it is time to close a thread.


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