# Bani Nirankaar Hai - How To Interpret



## Sikh80 (Jan 30, 2008)

*Re: Bani Nirakaar hi--How to interpret*

I am recirculating for the members consideration.


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## spnadmin (Jan 30, 2008)

*Re: Bani Nirakaar hi--How to interpret*

Sikh80 ji

This could be a long research paper. And an interesting one as long as the sources were very high quality and reference were made to Guruji throughout, the path taken that of Gurmat.


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## Sikh80 (Jan 30, 2008)

*Re: Bani Nirakaar hi--How to interpret*

Yes, it is the only way that we can reach the translations in a correct manner. However, who require will to do it.

I shall go in for hybrid format of interpretation i.e contextual and the best fit i.e the translation does not lead to absurdity esp. in stand alone type of interpretation .
like 
Brahmgyani is Nirankaar.

Is it possible.?

On the other way round 

Nirankaar is Brahmgyani.


However, things will not change much for those who read english Translation.It is another grey area and many Indian sikhs have also been misled by the translators. The suggestion is for those who refer gurmukhi version of the scriptures and arrive at correct meaning.For those reading english translation will not ever reach the correct meaning.They will always be trapped into by the translator.There are many words in punjabi whose equivalent in english is absent. One can tell many esp. those where there is a concept. Chardi-kala is an example of this kind.Can one describe the meaning in english n one word.Never.It shall take atleast hours of discussions to tell someone the meaning.On net it cannot be explained even.One can just give a broad picture of the likely meaning.

Similarly, The Bani nirankaar is a metaphor. Bani cannot be truth and true if it is applied to all the tuks. There will be many things that will not stand the test of correctness.
if we say ' all meditate upon you'. Is it correct.? No , It is not.
The fact is only a small percentage of the total population may meditate upon the lord. hence these are technical fallacies.Bani is truth to the extent the message is provided.Everything is not right.

Why should Nirankaar address his beings as 'Fools'. This is again the logical fallacy.There are many hence we can only take mesages to be the gift of bani.
bhul chuk mauf..

The suggestion is not workable on the forum. Let us proceed the way we are doing.


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## kaur-1 (Jan 31, 2008)

Dah!!! Oh dear..:rofl!!:

( and  double dah!!! http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/19633-sex-the-feed-of-body-soul.html )


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## Sikh80 (Jan 31, 2008)

enjoy yourself.It is your day. But remember this is a forum of gurbani Vichaar and you should be doing the same.The moderators are very strict.This is a confedential information that I am passing on please do not tell this to any one.
~SSA~


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## spnadmin (Jan 31, 2008)

*Re: Bani Nirakaar hi--How to interpret*

_Zee beeg probleme mon ami _is this.

Gurbani is poetry. Poetry in any language does not in every verse in every line depend on literal meaning. Or it would not be poetry but prose. Even reading in Punjabi, the verses, the words would not have literal reference to ordinary definitions and use. There is no way to avoid a discussion of what this poet, a poet, any poet intended. Whether you read the scripture in Gurmukhi or another language. The imagery in Punjabi is still imagery. And somehow must be mapped on to imagery in English, or French, or German.

Plus - Gurbani is not written in modern Punjabi, or only in Punjabi alone. Even a Punjabi speaker must make allowances for words from perhaps 6 other languages found in the scripture.

How does one explain this without discussion?
 				 ਵਡਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਅਗਮ ਅਗੋਚਰੁ ਆਦਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਜੀਉ ॥
   				vaddaa maeraa govindh agam agochar aadh niranjan nirankaar jeeo ||
   				My Lord of the Universe is great, unapproachable, unfathomable, primal, immaculate and *formless.*

Understanding is translation.


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## kaur-1 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: Bani Nirakaar hi--How to interpret*

_*Si ..Mucho Mucho *__problemoh _


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## spnadmin (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: Bani Nirakaar hi--How to interpret*


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## Sikh80 (Feb 4, 2008)

Note : The above 3/4 posts are authored by the moderators of the site. Probably they have the right to author that they want and spoil or block the thread that they do not want to promote:ice:

Guru Sahibs have put great support on the Bani as well. It is not to state that it is equivalent to anything else.Gurbani has its own inherent power or the intrinsic power.
Sing the praises of the Guru or Lord-Bani


[The One Lord is pervading and permeating deep within the heart; with your mouth, recite the Ambrosial Hymns of the Guru. ||1||Pause||][366-12]

_In the present context the ‘Guru’ would stand for the creator or the primal being. The Sikhs put lot of importance to remembering Him and thanking HIM for all that He has given the mankind/mortals. The utterance of Gurbani is also one one of the nucleus concept of the Sikhs. The keetan of the ‘sabad’ of Bani sung in the praise of the Lord has been stated as the support of the life of a devotee. _


[The Kirtan of the Lord's Praise is my Support; this wealth is everlasting.[398-2]


***************************
Gurmukhi lines are not given as these could not be properly formatted.


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## Sikh80 (Feb 4, 2008)

siqgur kI bwxI siq siq kir jwxhu gurisKhu hir krqw Awip muhhu kFwey ] (308-5, gauVI, mÚ 4)
O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it.
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'Satgur Ki Bani' would in the context stand for the bani of the guru as the Creator causes the Guru to chant it. This is authored by Guru Arjan Dev ji Maharaj in Guadi. It would have meaning assigned to it that whatever is chanted is at the behest of the Lord. 
Bani itself is Nirankaar.hence the recitation of it would be equivalent to the Naam japna. Thus the recitation of the bani can be undertaken by the seekers / the novice to the sikhi like me and it would have the same results as that of naam jaap.
The regular Paath of the bani that we undertake should also qualify for the Naam Jaap. You may like to confirm/check.

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Pl. check if the Bani is Of Guru Arjan Dev ji Maharaaj..


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## Sikh80 (Feb 4, 2008)

*SHABAD-NAAM-BANI-GURBANI: WHAT IS IT?* 
The Shabad dwells deep within the nucleus of all beings. God is invisible;
(also visible) wherever I look, there I see Him (sggs 944). This Shabad
permeates the nucleus of the Self, deep within, the Home of the Self; the
Light of this Shabad pervades the three worlds (sggs 945). Creation and
destruction happen through the Shabad. Through the Shabad, creation
happens again (sggs 117). The created universe is the manifestation of
God's Name. O God, without Your Name, there is no place at all (sggs 4). 
<><><><> ​The terms _Shabad, Naam_ or _Baanee _(also spelt Bani) are essentially synonymous and refer to the Divine Essence — Divine Word, Divine Name or _Mantara_. As indicated in the scriptures, the Transcendental Spirit perpetually expresses through the _Shabad_ (_Naam_ or _Bani_). Therefore, the _Shabad_ is God and God is the _Shabad_. The Guru and God are also indicated to be one and the same. Hence, the _Shabad_ is the Guru and the Guru is the _Shabad_.

T.singh


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## Sikh80 (Feb 4, 2008)

Anhq bwxI inrml sbdu vjwey gur sbdI sic smwvixAw ]4] (115-4, mwJ, mÚ 3)
The Unstruck Melody of the Bani resounds through the Pure Word of the Shabad; through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, we are absorbed into the True One. ||4||:hmm:


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## Sikh80 (Feb 4, 2008)

*SGGSJ Ang 982*
Guru Ram Das 


*bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ]*

The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained.

*guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry ]5]*

If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him. ||5||:down:
****************************************

During discussion with Jajisahib04 it had transpired in some thread about four months ago that there is a line which contains a guarantee by Guru Sahibaan that if one acts according to the Bani then Guru sahib will see to it that the person is liberated.
It is this line that he was alluding to.:{-


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## Sikh80 (Feb 4, 2008)

gur kI bwxI nwim vjwey ] (362-11, Awsw, mÚ 3)
Through the Word of the Guru's Bani, the Naam resounds;


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## Sikh80 (Feb 4, 2008)

*Bani*
http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Amrit_Savaiye


The SGPC have recommended that the following 5 Banis should be recited by a Sikh on a daily basic: Japji Sahib, Jaap Sahib and Amrit Savaiye in the morning, Rehras Sahib is to be read in the evening (about 6pm) and Kirtan Sohila before going to sleep at night. 

the Sikh must bear the following advice given by SGGS: 

*Gurbani is jewel:*
_Gurbani is the jewel, the treasure of devotion. Singing, hearing and acting upon it, one is enraptured. ||2||_ (page 376)
*Hold your mind steady while reciting Bani:*
_Under Guru’s Instructions, hold your mind steady; O my soul, do not let it wander anywhere. One who utters the Bani of the Praises of the Lord God, O Nanak, obtains the fruits of his heart’s desires. ||1||_ (p538)
*Focus one’s mind on the True Lord:*
_When the Lord shows His Mercy, He enjoins the mortal to work for the Guru. His pains are taken away, and the Lord’s Name comes to dwell within. True deliverance comes by focusing one’s consciousness on the True Lord. Listen to the Shabad, and the Word of the Guru’s Bani. ||1||_ (p1277)


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## Sikh80 (Feb 4, 2008)

inrml bwxI inj Gir vwsw ] (362-18, Awsw, mÚ 3)
Through the Immaculate Bani of the Word, the mortal dwells within the home of his own inner self.


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## Archived_member2 (Feb 4, 2008)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Sikh80 Jee!

One can understand this and all the true Guru's Vaaks by receiving true Naam Simran. One may not find any other way. It does not matter how clever he is.


Balbir Singh


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## Sikh80 (Feb 4, 2008)

Right Sir, But we come to know only thru. Bani.


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## Sikh80 (Feb 4, 2008)

_To make it an informative read I am including the following that is taken from another post._

*Bani, Naam and Recitation
*
It was today morning [5-12-07]that the katha of Gyani Maskeen ji was relayed . In his ‘parvachan’ he stated many things but I am quoting only that is relevant to the thread.

After quoting many ‘tuks’ from SGS ji he made an observation that entire Bani is ‘Naam’ as it is the word of GOD. One can,therefore, concentrate on the recitation of the bani. It can be done in two ways:


Either by reciting the Bani like Ajapa jap.
Or By reading the bani aloud so that it is heard by the reader.
*OR *

In case it is found difficult then one should do ‘Naam jaap’/simran/meditation on the word ‘waheguru’. He had stated clearly that without this there is no escape of Sikh. One should devote as much time as possible as life is not very predictable.
I am giving below some ‘tuks’ from Granth sahib ji in this regard:



GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it.[308-5]
Through the Word of the Guru's Bani, the Naam resounds[362-11]
Singing the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises, the Naam abides within the mind.[363-3]
Constantly listening to the Ambrosial Gurbani in the heart, it becomes pleasing to the mind.[366-11]
Through Gurbani, the Incomprehensible Lord is comprehended[366-12] 
There are many sweet quotes from the Granth Sahib ji. 


The One Lord is pervading and permeating deep within the heart; with your mouth, recite the Ambrosial Hymns of the Guru.[366-12]
Gurbani is the jewel, the treasure of devotion.[376-14]
Singing, hearing and acting upon it, one is enraptured.[376-15]
Embrace love for the Word of the Guru's Bani.[387-13]
The Kirtan of the Lord's Praise is my Support; this wealth is everlasting.[398-14]|
Those whose minds are pleased with the Word of the Guru's Bani, drink in the Ambrosial Nectar again and again.[449-14]
Servant Nanak chants the Glorious Words of the Guru's Bani; through them, one is absorbed into the Naam, the Name of the Lord. [494-4]

Waaho! Waaho! is the Bani, the Word, of the Formless Lord. There is no other as great as He is.[515-17]


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## Sikh80 (Feb 4, 2008)

*BANI
*The Bani constitutes the springhead of Punjabi literary tradition and the creative energy the latter acquired from it informed its subsequent growth and continues to be a vital influence to this day. 1. Shackle, C., A Guru Nanak G/ossary. London, 1981
2. Kirpal Singh, JANAM SAKHI Prampara. PATIALA, 1969
3. Kahn Singh, Bhai, Gunnat Martand. AMRITSAR, 1983


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## Sikh80 (Feb 4, 2008)

*Bani : Revealation for the sikhs*



http://www.thesikhencyclopedia.com/c...k,view/id,341/


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## Sikh80 (Feb 4, 2008)

eyk ik®snµ srb dyvw dyv dyvw q Awqmw ] (469-15, Awsw, mÚ 2)
The *One Lord Krishna* is the *Divine Lord* of all; He is the Divinity of the individual soul.
Awqmw bwsudyvis´ jy ko jwxY Byau ] nwnku qw kw dwsu hY soeI inrMjn dyau ]4] (469-15, Awsw, mÚ 2)
Nanak is a slave to anyone who understands this mystery of the all-pervading Lord; *he himself is the Immaculate Divine Lord. ||4||*
********************************************************
Kindly refer above.Here Lord Krishna is stated to be the Divine Lord.The reference cannot be rejected by giving out some logic that Krishna was the Avtaar of the God in some particular Yug. Bani is 'Nirankaar' would mean that every thing stated is truth. If one has to change the context or alter the words to arrive at the meaning that suits us the entire purpose is lost.

We shall have to explain as to what is that suits sikhi and sikhism. What is wrong if We accept Krishna as the Primal Lord as is stated in the above lines.It has been taken from ASA DI VAAR. I hope the translation is correct.

One may refer the post no.1 where in the purpose of the thread is very clearly stated. It has been over shadowed by the subsequent post that was irrelevant but was forced into due to the reasons known to the author.:}--}:

In any case I do not find any reason to reject Krishna as the Primal lord because somewhere else it has not been written so or Bhai Gurdas ji explains better. Gurdas ji was just a scribe of the Guru sahib and His words cannot replace the words of guru sahibaan. 
Bani Nirankaar hey! has its own scope and area of coverage. it cannot be applied to everything and anything entered in the Granth sahib. It shall reduce the value of the Bani if we keep on altering the meaning of the bani as it suits us. 

Who shall decide this.?It should be answered by theone who has knowledge of Gurmukhi else let it go. We can discuss it some other time when you have acquired the knowledge.Posting the translations in english is an additional burden. Some of the times the translations are not correct.


Bhul Chuk Mauf


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