# Does Humanity Need Religion?



## Admin (Oct 19, 2009)

Do you think humanity truly needs religion? Do you think the world would be a better place if there was no religion for people to fight over? 

Thanks.


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## jasbirkaleka (Oct 19, 2009)

Humanity is the basis of all great religions, but we get so carried away by the greatness and uniqueness of our own religion and  are so full of false ego, that we fail to understand the real purpose and true meaning of being a religious person.


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## Sikh royalist (Oct 19, 2009)

humans have never existed without religion nor will they in future...............
in the beginning religions are made for bringing peace to soul and finding truth but at the end they are used by people for their motives.......


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## Astroboy (Oct 19, 2009)

*Turning Yogis into Khalsa Sikhs*

 Yogi Bhajan in his own words: “Religion has done the worst. What religion has done is to create the mental coercive state of slaves. Religion didn't do something to free somebody. It didn't say: “Go ahead and be!” When I came to the United States and I became a Sikh and all that, religion was forced on us. You know I am very anti-religion and I studied all the religions. I know all the loopholes. And I have studied every religion.
 “I said to myself, 'Why we have to be Sikhs? What nonsense is this? Forget it!' Then I looked at myself and said, 'Wait a minute. There is one way to do it: Give them Baanaa (Distinctive and Gracious Attire). Give them Baanee (Songs of Self-counsel and Inspiration). Give them Seva (A Culture of Service). Give them Simran (Remembrance of the Self in Totality). Put them out in the market. And if by self-awareness they can survive, they will automatically become intuitive.'
 “I took a very calculated risk. I said, 'No Sikhs. I don't want to have Sikhs. Sikhs for what?' But I said, 'If they can stand under 250 million Americans, totally living differently, dealing differently, not saying “Hello” but saying “Sat Nam”, let us see what happens.'
 “Well, some people came out really great. And it's true if you get into yourself in totality, you will have reality.” [42]


Harbhajan Singh Yogi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## kds1980 (Oct 19, 2009)

Religion has lot of positive effect on a person's life.We have seen people mother teresa
who have dedicated their entire life for humanity.


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## spnadmin (Oct 19, 2009)

Funny - I was thinking last night about this. There is religion with its goodness and its wickedness. Where does that come from? The good and the wicked. Religions are made up of people. There are beliefs and then there are people, good and wicked. When you have 2 people you have the possibility for politics. So maybe the problem is not religion but the politics of religion. I see good things in both the OP and the comments to follow. Still making up my mind. Thanks for the debate.


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## kds1980 (Oct 19, 2009)

Here is one of the quote about religion I read on worldsikhnews article

WSN-Special Report-Indo-Sikh Battle of Amritsar
Sikhism developed into an independent religion. A new religion always produces a new nation. Guru Gobind Singh formalized the Sikhs as a distinct nation, vested it with an ever- ascending morale and inexhaustible energy and launched it into time towards the goal of sovereignty. The Guru taught his Sikhs that sovereignty is necessary for the progress of religion and people, divorced from religion, are always treaded down. Sikhism faced as much hostility from Hinduism as from Islam. Enmity between religions is natural and permanent. The law of “struggle for survival” applies to religions as well as living organisms. When a religion expands, expansion being a mode of survival, it encroaches on the territory of some other religion and then conflict is inevitable.  

Brotherly coexistence between different religions is a myth. The preaching of brotherhood between religions is useful for the peace and stability of society. But it is only palliative. It rather plants confusion in the minds of people and disables them to understand and face reality.


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## Sinister (Oct 20, 2009)

"We associate truth with convenience; with what most closely accords with self-interest and personal well-being or promises best to avoid awkward effort or unwelcome dislocation of life. We also find highly acceptible what contributes most to self-esteem. Economic and social behaviors are complex, and to comprehend their character is mentally tiring. Therefore we adhere, as though to a raft, to those ideas which represent our understanding."

John Kenneth Galbraith

and then dare to examine the term 'conventional wisdom' (coined by the same author mentioned above) and a discussion of religion and morality is to follow. Conventional Wisdom is not always true--sorting throught the information, perhaps noticing the contrails of sloppy or self-interested thinking should prompt all clever individuals to start asking more questions (be it of religion or any groupthink).

does humanity truly need religion?
IMHO, Humanity needs religion about as much as a crying baby needs a pacifier.


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## harbansj24 (Oct 20, 2009)

John Galbraith's fundas are not for ordinary folks. Yes high level intellectuals do not need religion, that is maybe 1% of the population. Now what happens to 99%? This is what we forget when we get into high level debates on religion. That it is meant for the masses and it is the ethical and moral duty of those blessed with a high level of intellect to give proper markers for for the ordinary folks.

 That is why Gurbani of SGGS is so beautiful. It has simple straighforward message for ordinary people. And as intellectual level goes higher, deeper meaning emerges and at the highest level it is pure metaphysics and at each level there is no contradiction with any other level of annotation.

Didn't Karl Marx say that religion is an opium for the masses? If you take away the communist ideology, you will find that he was not wide of the mark. For the masses, religion is a great motivator and sustainer but it can  also be a destroyer. 

As Narayanjot ji very correctly put it,  politics is responsible for making religion either good or wicked.


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## kds1980 (Oct 20, 2009)

> As Narayanjot ji very correctly put it that politics is responsible for making religion either good or wicked.



Politics is everywhere.It starts from within a family and you have to speak very carefully.
Politicians just pick the pulse of public.If people care about their religion then they are going to use it.If they are sensitive about their language ,culture then politicians are also going to use that.


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## AusDesi (Oct 20, 2009)

Humanity needs spirituality not religion. There's a massive difference between the two. Spirituality is the basis of loving each other and considering everyone equal, Religion has the opposite effect. Religion brings about a US V THEM mentality, MY people, MY Book, MY Kids(will not marry theirs) etc.


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## kds1980 (Oct 20, 2009)

AusDesi said:


> Humanity needs spirituality not religion. There's a massive difference between the two. Spirituality is the basis of loving each other and considering everyone equal, Religion has the opposite effect. Religion brings about a US V THEM mentality, MY people, MY Book, MY Kids(will not marry theirs) etc.



The question is can spirituality survive without religion because history have shown us that One religion killing other and destroting other religion and imposing its version of spirituality.

Let me give you an example at one time sikh Guru's have massive influence on punjabi muslims and those punjabi muslims used to practice sikh spirituality without formally converting to sikhism.But what is the situation now ?Their descendents are folllowing orthodox islam and even moving towards talibans.


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 20, 2009)

The question," Does Humanity need Religion", is a trick question as the examiner after my first driving test in London at 16 told me when I asked him a question?

The actual question should be that " Does Religion need Humanity"?. And the answer to this one is absolutely *YES*.

The problem arises when we start comparing Sikhi which is based on pragmatism- The Objective reality which is always changing with time, to the other religions which stopped in time because they were created  based on dogmas that the creators made up- the Subjective Truths.

So, it is  the religion that needs humanity to survive, not the other way around.

Allow me to give you a couple of examples to illustrate what I mean.

First and the foremost comes from our Guru's visions of Langer and Pangat where all have to sit together and share the same meal, irrespective of their caste and status with *no* *strings attached.*

We call know the HIV pandemic in Africa and Asia including India and China and is ever increasing daily and talking many lives with it. The Catholic Church is against any kind of birth control so it prohibits the charities linked to it to distribute Condoms and Birth Control pills which act like levees- barges before the hurricane of this devastation disease comes rushing on to people.

One more example is from one of  the most famous televangelists  with his best selling book called," The Purpose driven life", which I did read and it is an insteresting book. The authour's name is Rick Warren. This book has made him a multimillionaire.

There are lots of positive things he has done with the money and his fame as a Pastor. He has given all the salary he earned from his church as the pastor before making the money from the book. He does not take any salary from his church and spends all the royalties to help people. BUT, he also does not supply condoms nor any other birth control methods and does not accept gays. He does help people with diseases like malaria potable water etc. etc. and has a network of people in Africa that convert others to Christianity while trying to help.

There are many Christian charities who act in the same manner where poverty and desperation are rampant, a must bait for them to spread "The Word", but are with *strings attached in the name of ONE GOD.* *Little do they know that ONE GOD is not a puppet, hence no strings needed.*

Now let us take the example of Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, the 2 richest men in the world. Bill  and Melinda Gates foundation has helped all kinds of needy people all around the world in all kinds of different fields with *no* *strings attached,* because of his and his wife's values are based on pragmatism, not on some dictated dogmas. Warren Buffet has given almost all his wealth to the Bill  and Melinda Gates foundation for the same purpose.

These people are not flaunting their faiths/religions as Guru Nanak did not when he started the concept of Langer and Pangat, the corner stone to eradicate caste system and social differences. These 2 people are following Guru Nanak, quite unknowingly.

So, what was the question of the topic???!!!

Tejwant Singh

PS: It took me 5 tries to get my British Driver's licence. It is said that British Driver's licence is more difficult to obtain than to get a university degree.But the best part is that my licence only needs renewal when I am 75.
*
*


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## AusDesi (Oct 21, 2009)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> The question is can spirituality survive without religion because history have shown us that One religion killing other and destroting other religion and imposing its version of spirituality.



You are confusing spirituality with religious opinion. You cannot kill someone else because you think your spirituality is better. 

This is true because people of the same religion kill each other too. Catholics burned just about everyone of stakes because their opinion was different. It hardly mattered whether that person was much more spiritual.


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## Sinister (Oct 21, 2009)

AusDesi said:


> You are confusing spirituality with religious opinion.


 

what is spirituality? and what is religious opinion? 

From my understanding; 
Spirituality is, for lack of a better word, immateriality. and one would assume spirituality involves a form of reflection upon yourself and your social interactions with others, stimulating greater awareness of self and environment. Thus spirituality may exist independant of a religious framework. 

This definition makes spirituality all inclusive. So within the context of this defintion many Taliban fighters must be considered spiritual warriors. Even a suicide bomber’s concept of realism and worldly physicality must be psychologically dissociated and attenuated before he/or she can carry out their respective final task.(whether such actions are for the betterment of humanity or for the worse…history written by the victors is usually the cruel judge of such things). But a person must assume that these people, for the large part, have contemplated before undertaking such an enormous and many times hideous task.





AusDesi said:


> You cannot kill someone else because you think your spirituality is better.


 

why not? unless you believe that thought and spirituality are independant.


"Do you think the world would be a better place if there was no religion for people to fight over? "

Although there would one less division between people, I am confident that humanity would probably conjure and forge some other ridiculous standard upon which to carry dissimilar flags to war.

religion, dogma, politics, race, social structure and economic theories are usually the ones we love to blame for our current state of affairs. Isn't it time we start blaming the real culprit, God?


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## spnadmin (Oct 21, 2009)

Who is God? 

My question directed primarily at anyone who claimed on other threads that God does not exist, and who would then blame God for anything.


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## Taranjeet singh (Oct 22, 2009)

Religion is the invention of mankind. It exists because it is sustained by the mankind and everything that is sustained over a long period of time becomes a necessity. Something that is invented and discarded over a period of time may not be the need of humanity but that is sustained can be considered as the need and necessity. The changing scenarios on the economic front implies the rejection of the earlier order in preference to the latter and likewise the preferences to the new thoughts that has a fulfilling effects is likely to be accepted by the humanity. Same is true for any religion. The invention is to sub serve the needs of the spiritual aspirations and will fall in the category of religion. Clearly enough it becomes the need.


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## Lee (Oct 22, 2009)

I have offten heard thi libne about religion and it's invention.  I have heard all sorts of claims about the possible reasons for inventing such a thing, mostly I am told it is all about control.

Now whilst I can be quiet synical about many things, I don't think anybody can realisticly claim certian knowledge of why religion saw 'invented'.

In fact I do not belive that religion has been invented at all, rather I suppose that it has developed quite naturaly over the eons, like maths, or language.

The wider question does humanity need it?  Well that's a hard one to answer really, when 'humanity' is still composed of disperat and sepert voices, so perhaps the only relevant answer is some people do and some people don't.


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## BhagatSingh (Oct 22, 2009)

Lee Ji, you reply serves as a good transition to Daniel Dennett's presentation. 
YouTube - Dan Dennett: A secular, scientific rebuttal to Rick Warren


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## Astroboy (Oct 23, 2009)

Bhagat Singh,

Thanks for this video. I have sometimes wondered if Dogs and Humans were best friends of each other with the Dog allowing the Human Being to serve it. From the dog's point of view, the natural selection is in the dog's favor because the dogs talk amongst themselves , "These human species have a hundred problems to solve, what a wastage of precious life."


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## Sikh royalist (Oct 23, 2009)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> The question is can spirituality survive without religion because history have shown us that One religion killing other and destroting other religion and imposing its version of spirituality.
> 
> Let me give you an example at one time sikh Guru's have massive influence on punjabi muslims and those punjabi muslims used to practice sikh spirituality without formally converting to sikhism.But what is the situation now ?Their descendents are folllowing orthodox islam and even moving towards talibans.


 
you are confusing religion with spirituality religion is the hard work and spirituality is the fruit attained.take an example like you go to ur office and get ur salary going office is ur religion and spirituality is ur salary in this case.
religion can be imposed upon others but not spirituality in such cases religion simply becomes rituals and nothing else where as spirituality is attained by us with our own realization.

i think Sikhism is a pool of spirituality because of the minimum rituals involved.........


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