# Sikhi - The End Game



## Kanwaljit.Singh (Mar 15, 2012)

http://www.sikharchives.com/?p=13899

Excerpt:

_You lose a war when you are out-classed and out-gunned. You lose a war when you are out-brained. It appears that it is pretty much endgame for the Sikhs. They are like Menachem Begin said: “Drugged {censored}roaches in a bottle“. No Attila The Hun to be found among these {censored}roaches.No Great Khan here. Just a bunch of fagged out {censored}roaches with their thick rubbery lips applied to the wrong appendage._

_I think it is the end of the Sewa. Time is too precious to waste on fools. I might write three more articles. A Simple Explanation Of How The Sikh Nation Was Betrayed in 1947. An article on how I escaped the death trap in Delhi on the day the *****, Indira Gandhi was killed and my time with the Lion, Surinder Singh Sodhi. Finally for my few patrons, I thank you. Thank you Joginder Singh Foley; I like you. I would like to write one article on how to live like a Real Sikh. How to be fearless like a Lion, how to make tons of money and how to work only for yourself. And how to live free and proud. This is the formula I used on myself._


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## Inderjeet Kaur (Mar 16, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

_Nanak Naam 
Charhdi Kala, 
Tere Bhane 
Sarbatt da Bhalaa_


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## BaljinderS (Mar 16, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

The power of Sikhi is so great and that it is taking whole of India's force to try and eradicate it.  Sikhi is like a spring, push it down hard as you like and it will bounce back.
We are humans at the end of the day some of us will want peace of mind, harmony in our life.  The World will adopt Sikhi, its just a matter of time. 
It will too late for India when they reliase what they are doing.  India is scared buy a handful of Sikhs???!


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## OneD10s (Mar 16, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

I am reading The History of Sikhs by Kushwant Singh and Sikhi has had so many sacrifices, so many wars and battles from the Afgans trying to eradicate Sikhs, blowning the Harminder Sahib three times.  Invading Punjab 9 times and never successful.  

I think Sikhs are strong today because a lot of Sikhs are highly educated.  Organisations like United Sikhs, Sikh Channel Uk, and Khalsa Aid (naming a few) really help for justice and Sikh rights in India.  Whoever wrote that article sounds like they have given up.  

Like I mentioned above, the Invading Afghan army, they killed so many Sikhs. So today is no different to back then for Sikhs.  

I agree with Baljinders that the power of Sikhi is great, people are really seeing the light of Sikhi.


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## OneD10s (Mar 16, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

Actually I have just skim read the article and it is very interesting and exposing the India Intelligence of how they are misleading Sikh youths and also how they are trying to "hinduize" Sikhi outside of India.

What great measures and money spent by the India Intelligence to try to stop Sikhi.


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 16, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*



OneD10s said:


> Actually I have just skim read the article and it is very interesting and exposing the India Intelligence of how they are misleading Sikh youths and also how they are trying to "hinduize" Sikhi outside of India.What great measures and money spent by the India Intelligence to try to stop Sikhi.



OneD10s ji some comments and the tester for identifying possible qualities of those destroying Sikhism. Unfortunately some who post here do too fit the profiles. Makes lot of sense to me (extracted from http://www.sikharchives.com/?p=1389)

OneD10s brother did you try the spotter quiz to see which posters at spn follow the set up like a glove on hand. I mean the following flags of caution,



 if the forum or person insists that the Dasam Granth is a genuine composition of Guru Gobind Singh he is a ENEMY Agent or the forum is a ENEMY front.
 if the forum or person explains the Guru Granth Sahib by reference to Hindu Mythology or the Hindu Religion he is a ENEMY Agent or the forum is a ENEMY front.
 If the forum or person does not accept the principle of Raj Karega Khalsa, he is a ENEMY Agent or the forum is a ENEMY front.
 If the forum or person does not accept the principle that The Guru Granth Sahib is the revealed word of God, he is a ENEMY Agent or the forum is a ENEMY front.
 If the forum or person does not accept the principle that the Guru Granth Sahib is subject to only one unitary interpretation he is a ENEMY Agent or the forum is a ENEMY front.
 If a person talks a lot about Sikhi but cannot recite the Japji Sahib from heart, he is suspect. This is an excellent test. Ask him to recite the Japji Sahib, standing up.
 If the person does not know or ever discuss Sikh History or steers you away from Sikh History, he is a ENEMY Agent or the forum is a ENEMY front.
 If the person or forum steers a discussion away from real politics to mysticism and religious obscurantism he or the forum is a 100% ENEMY Agent or an agent of the IB.
 Any so called Gurdwara which refuses to fly the Nishan Sahib, the flag of the Sikh Nation is a ENEMY or IB front
 Any Gurdwara which has idols or pictures in the Darbar Sahib and in the presence of the Guru Granth Sahib is an ENEMY or Intelligence controlled “fake gurdwara”. No idol or statue can be located on Gurdwara premises or in it’s vicinity


Beware of people with a conflict of interest. For example, people with property in India. Their personal selfish interests will conflict with the interests of the Quom. They are easy to blackmail. This is one technique that K.P.S. Gill loved to use. He simply murdered the family members of suspected terrorists or used this threat to coerce people to do his bidding.
 Pretty thought provoking and so simple to understand if one so wishes.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Parma (Mar 16, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

Some philosophies have been to divide and conquer, Sikh philosophy should be to Unite and conquer=(love one an another), at whatever cost. It is the only way the world will be one and when the world is one the guru granth sahib will be a natural king as that is the absolute truth. Not singhs sikhs or anything else the guru granth sahib is the king the absolute conqueror, the conqueror of love!:happysingh:


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## OneD10s (Mar 18, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

yes Ambarsaria,

I did read that.  I just can not believe people who are apart of the organisation who's main mission is destroy a group (sikhi). Do these people have any self respect and morals?  They must be very sad!

But i think this just needs to be spread as people who do go to these organisations just do not realise what they are attending.


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 18, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*



OneD10s said:


> yes Ambarsaria,
> 
> I did read that.  I just can not believe people who are apart of the organisation who's main mission is destroy a group (sikhi). Do these people have any self respect and morals?  They must be very sad!
> 
> But i think this just needs to be spread as people who do go to these organisations just do not realise what they are attending.









OneD10s ji there is no shortage of Sikhs lined up to sell Sikhi for the usual of money, promotion, position and false pride.  I depicted above symbolically turbans on one side and money on the other.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## OneD10s (Mar 18, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

I agree Ambarsaria,

But as Guru Nanak squeezed the bread of the rich and poor man and found blood from the rich and milk fro the honest working poor man. That is surely a strong message for people to think about how they make a living.  

It is just unmoral to work for an organisation which main objective it to mislead people.  Surely one must question themselves when a part of these organisation.  

But as I said before some people do not even realise they are attending events who are put together by these organisations.  And I am sure they are slowly being exposed.


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## Parma (Mar 18, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by *OneD10s* 

 
_yes Ambarsaria,_

_I did read that. I just can not believe people who are apart of the organisation who's main mission is destroy a group (sikhi). Do these people have any self respect and morals? They must be very sad!_

_But i think this just needs to be spread as people who do go to these organisations just do not realise what they are attending._







</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




OneD10s ji there is no shortage of Sikhs lined up to sell Sikhi for the usual of money, promotion, position and false pride. I depicted above symbolically turbans on one side and money on the other.

Sat Sri Akal.<!-- google_ad_section_end --> 


It is very sad that some sikhs are more interested in promoting these get rich quick money making schemes like above, that Mr Ambarsaria knows so much about and not promoting sikhism. The noble concept of sikhism at the time of its creation was to bring together two different faiths, Guru Nanak says no one is a muslim and no one is a hindu. It is very sad that a noble thought has been diluted today so much so to the extent by such people promoting ludacrise ideas like above, if the picture depicted above had any truth to it do you know how many mona sikhs there are in the world? I'll tell you there is more than the turban wearing ones anyway. If the point was to make money for anyone in promoting the mona sikh instead of the turban sikh they would be rich already and hence no point to debate anything about sikhi. It is a shame that sikhi is so divided due to people thinking they know sikhi because of what there grandad taught them, which was just to wear a turban and dont ask questions, but they have made no point in finding out the truth for themselves. I bet some of these so called sikhs still carry on with the caste system because there grandad taught them. These Mr ambasaria types are meant to be the guiding lights in sikhism at the moment and look whats happening to it. I dream of a day when the mona sikh, amritdhari sikh, and all other sikhs in the world can sit side by side and read the guru granth sahib without any discrimination from one an another. The guru's were able to unite the two different faiths and create sikhism it is a shame that the current sikhs can not even unite to create the khalsa. Did you also know that Guru Gobind Singh created the Khalsa, he did not create the 5 k's, that was created out of all the mish mash of all the scholary mindset to create a khalsa fauj in Maharaja Ranjit Singh's Raj! Sad story and a shame maybe the title is fitting Sikhi-End game. Love everyone if you show hate, just hate yourself as something is lacking in the individual to create the hate on the outside! Mr Ambarsaria, I do have love for you as at points you do give alot of guidance and I love reading some of your posts, but man at least stick to the truth. Love and peace to you brother! This is my last posting I may never post on this site again. I came to say what I needed to say. Remember this;

Waheguru ji ki Khalsa
Waheguru ji ki Fathe

Understand what they really mean!

Thank you all for your time!


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## Luckysingh (Mar 18, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

Parma ji

Thank you for your points. All I can say is that the points are very very true and we all need to wake up and face the truth.
Many of us will discuss the truth with regards to how important it is. Then,we go off into our little worlds and forget. I mean in all honesty are we 100% truthful, honest and gurmat in our day to day living ??
It's very difficult to proceed in all your actions in a complete truthful gurmat manner.
Realising this and making amends, is what we should all be doing.

Even on these forums, I see a battle of ego's between certain members. The only advantage is normally the 3rd party is the one learning from experiencing another 2 battling each other. So, the 3rd person learns at the other's expense. Whereas, we are all on here and supposed to be leaning from each other and not at each others expense.
We could all just make a start by hepling each other in a truthful manner, then the gurmat living could follow.

Wahguru
Lucky Singh


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## OneD10s (Mar 18, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

Parma wrote "The noble concept of sikhism at the time of its creation was to bring together two different faiths"

Are you sure that was the concept of Sikhi? to bring together two different faiths?  Sikhi is about the truth, emerging with God and so much more, I do not think it was about what you wrote, however the two different faiths played apart in the creation to Sikhi?  for example you wrote "Guru Nanak says no one is a muslim and no one is a hindu" meaning we are all one!


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## OneD10s (Mar 18, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

Ban The RSS In The UK - Nazi Ideology      - YouTube

This video explains it very well!!


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 18, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

Luckysingh ji thanks for your post.





Luckysingh said:


> _Even on these forums, I see a battle of ego's between certain members._ The only advantage is normally the 3rd party is the one learning from experiencing another 2 battling each other. So, the 3rd person learns at the other's expense.
> 
> _Luckysingh ji I encourage you to participate in such battles and make these non battles.  Sometimes just witnessing by many is perhaps why the show goes on.
> 
> ...


Sat Sri Akal.


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## Luckysingh (Mar 19, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

Ambarsaria ji, No need to apologize for any troubles you feel you may have caused.
This makes me feel guilt, as I am in no position to be forgiving others since we all have plenty of forgiveness to ask from the Lord. I feel unworthy to be even given the authority to forgive as It feels to me that if we can't even forgive each other then how do we expect the Lord to forgive us.
Your battles are at the right place and at the right times. This gives a lot more validity to the issues at hand, if only all members had the same stronger approach.
I feel like the gaining 3rd party at times and this again brings on a guilt factor since all of the participants in a discussion, unfortunately don't all come out wiser at the end. It would be nice if all could gain rather than just the spectators.
Living in a pure gurmat and khalsa way of life is much more difficult than we actually realize. Love and unity is what sikhi needs and we all need sikhi.
There are sadly too many out there that are determined to put a daagh or blemish on sikhi. We can't just let it be, this is where strengths of unity are important. But if our egos are too busy determining who's right or wrong then this itself weakens any chances of unity.
Our actions today affect the children of tomorrow. If we focus on the tomorrow it becomes easier to drop our ego's. So, lets battle with our own weakness first before we battle any one else.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh.


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*



Ambarsaria said:


> OneD10s ji some comments and the tester for identifying possible qualities of those destroying Sikhism. Unfortunately some who post here do too fit the profiles. Makes lot of sense to me (extracted from http://www.sikharchives.com/?p=1389)
> 
> OneD10s brother did you try the spotter quiz to see which posters at spn follow the set up like a glove on hand. I mean the following flags of caution,
> 
> ...



lol Hahahahha

Good one Ambarsaria ji!

For those who don't get it (Parma ji I am talking to you), Ambarsaria ji does not side with the rigid Abrahamic structures of religion. So when he puts this list out, he is just kidding.
Ambarsaria ji does not side with terrorists either so when he labels everyone, who is against this way of thinking, as ENEMIES... he is clearly joking. 
Ambarsaria ji does not see himself as the supreme judge of deciding who is a Sikh and who isn't, he is quite humble with an all time low ego so when he does that here, when he acts like some kind of an egotistical tw*t, some angry paranoid man, he is just pulling your leg.
Ambarsaria ji, believes in being fearless thus fear inducing tactics such as this list is his way of amusement. 

Make sense now? It is purely amusement. Don't get caught in the seriousness otherwise you'll come out very fearful, paranoid, angry and hostile; you will lose touch with sources of understanding and will come out with a very horrible black and white view of reality.


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*



BhagatSingh said:


> lol Hahahahha
> 
> Good one Ambarsaria ji!
> 
> ...


Bhagat Singh ji this is not my list.  It comes from the referenced link in the first post of the thread.  Do I like it the way it is laid out?  Perhaps not.  Do somethings make sense to me, yes.  Do all make sense to me, NO.

I did not baaaaaaaaastarize the list or did editorial changes so in a way for amusement for sure.  I am surprised no one commented thus far.  

Parma is on my ignore list as I don't have good dialog with him and it was counter-productive at least personally for me.  So I did what I could as I have a choice in this matter as others do too.

Regards,

Sat Sri Akal.


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

What's the source?

IMO it's all nonsense, I found myself literally laughing out loud (I had to inhibit it since everyone's sleeping). I mean I do see some logic in not knowing Jap ji Sahib by heart. If one were to do Nitnem everyday one would know at least one bani by heart but this does not mean they are enemies. Some people don't do nitnem, they do simran. Or they study Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and don't have a routine or some structure in their life where they did not get to the outcome of knowing Jap ji Sahib by heart.

If it's serious, I think seeing things is terms of allies and enemies is kind of messed up. It does not suit a Seeker of truth. One who pursues truth will grab wisdom wherever it comes from. He does not set-up the world in which he is fighting some enemy. No one is an enemy, everyone is a vessel for wisdom to flow through. Wisdom flows through all the time out of everyone. Who can be an enemy to him if everyone is guiding him with wisdom?


Anyways, what made sense to you?


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*



BhagatSingh said:


> What's the source?
> 
> _IMO it's all nonsense_, I found myself literally laughing out loud (I had to inhibit it since everyone's sleeping).
> 
> ...


Sat Sri Akal.


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## Luckysingh (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

OK. The japji sahib recitation may be a little extreme. But many of us can hear a line or two of  bani and immediately place it correctly to japji sahib if it is from there. Perhaps it should read that an enemy agent can't recall the 10 names of the gurus. Maybe even in order from 1-10. Any one who has been to the gurdwara enough times should be very familiar with the ardaas and from the beginning of the ardaas they would be more than familiar with all gurus mentioned in succesive order to the Guru Granth Sahib.

Lucky Singh


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## Harry Haller (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*



BhagatSingh said:


> What's the source?
> 
> IMO it's all nonsense, I found myself literally laughing out loud (I had to inhibit it since everyone's sleeping). I mean I do see some logic in not knowing Jap ji Sahib by heart. If one were to do Nitnem everyday one would know at least one bani by heart but this does not mean they are enemies. Some people don't do nitnem, they do simran. Or they study Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and don't have a routine or some structure in their life where they did not get to the outcome of knowing Jap ji Sahib by heart.
> 
> ...



BhagatSinghji, 

you have clearly failed the test lol

Monty Python's "Life of Brian" (Stoned to death...)      - YouTube


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

Harry ji
What test is this? I didn't know I was being tested :S





			
				 Lucky Singh said:
			
		

> OK. The japji sahib recitation may be a little extreme. But many of us can hear a line or two of bani and immediately place it correctly to japji sahib if it is from there. Perhaps it should read that an enemy agent can't recall the 10 names of the gurus. Maybe even in order from 1-10. Any one who has been to the gurdwara enough times should be very familiar with the ardaas and from the beginning of the ardaas they would be more than familiar with all gurus mentioned in succesive order to the Guru Granth Sahib.



Lol


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## Harry Haller (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

BhagatSinghji, 

The Japji sahib test of course!

I have a few more tests of my own to expose enemy agents

1. Do they have non sikh names like Khan/Patel
2. Do they keep saying 'testing testing' and tapping their ear
3. Do they avoid Beef/Pork
4. Do they have RSS tattoos on their arms
5. Can they recite Japji Sahib whilst drinking a glass of water simultaneously 
6. Can they name all ten Gurus, all ten Gurus wives, all children, and at least 5 cousins
7. Does their turban look so big that it could be hiding a hidden camera, or possibly an entire TV crew


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

Hahaha

I used to know it by heart OK!!!   !!! !!!


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## Parma (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*



BhagatSingh said:


> lol Hahahahha
> 
> Good one Ambarsaria ji!
> 
> ...


 
To the moderator these people are just annoying, for the sake of disruption they have not added anything to this debate to contribute to sikhism, apart from making themselves look foolish. Mr Ambarsaria ji, maybe you were not joking but mr bhagat regards you as a joke, I would regard mr bhagat ji as the joke he dont understand English. I am talking about bringing sikhi together and that guy talks about me and you he has not got sense 

Sorry to be blunt! Bhagat ji you are a lot idiot! Who jokes about their views and there idea's man. No one's going believe a word you people say now, as you said your just jokers on the net passing time. Bhagat ji I am talking to you dont mention my name in your posts please, as you clearly dont have the capacity to converse with it your not fit too. I dont get it. Obviously i am not a fool and I dont discuss foolishness. So sorry if i dont get you!


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## sanj007 (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

Just a few questions:
1) If Indian govtn wanted to destroy Sikhism, then why have a Sikh as PM, dont make sense, as this will only publicise Sikhism in India and the world, its the last thing you do. Would Hitler have a Jewish Prime Minister or even in the cabinet, or his ilk? never
2) Where were the protests from Non Sikhs when PM Singh became PM, not to forget many Hindu faith voted for him?
3) There is a just cause for justice for 1984, and fact Nehru went back onhis word to the Sikh leaders after great evil of partition, but then this Nehur also betrayed those that voted for Congress as majority of people did not want partition. Nevertheless fair resolution to Sikh demands need addressing.

If it was not for the brave Sikhs of past, the Hindus in North India would have been converted!


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

Dogra ji thanks for your post.  Some comments,





dogra said:


> Just a few questions:
> 1) If Indian govtn wanted to destroy Sikhism, then why have a Sikh as PM, dont make sense, as this will only publicise Sikhism in India and the world, its the last thing you do. Would Hitler have a Jewish Prime Minister or even in the cabinet, or his ilk? never
> _One person does not make a community.  There are lot of Sikhs acting as non-Sikhs in their activities.  So it is not as black and white as you state.  Good argument or comment though._
> 
> ...


Regards.


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## Luckysingh (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

*If it was not for the brave Sikhs of past, the Hindus in North India would have been converted!
*_
*In fact Northern India would be like Bangladesh and would have become part of Pakistan.*_

This comment is so true and real that many don't even realise this.
The simple privelages that many take for granted are thanks to brave sikhs. I'm not saying any hindus never played parts in bravery, but not many changed the course of history the way the sikhs did.
Rather than be recognized for this, instead they are trying to shun the sikh nation.

Waheguru


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*



Luckysingh said:


> *If it was not for the brave Sikhs of past, the Hindus in North India would have been converted!
> *_
> 
> This comment is so true and real that many don't even realise this.
> ...


_
Nope not entirely true. What we are never told is that 99% of the Khalsa forces are coming from Hindus who are taking amrit. In families first born son was initiated into Khalsa and was expected to die for the Guru. What we are also not told about is our Muslim allies and mercenary armies during Guru Gobind Singh ji's time (especially battle of Bhangani, a few Udasis also fought in the Battle of Bhangani.) and Muslim infantry and artillery units during Maharaja Ranjit Singh ji's time.

The Marathas (much larger than the Sikh empire) were also weakening the Mughal power from the South and the Afghans from the North.




			If it was not for the brave Sikhs of past, the Hindus in North India would have been converted!
		
Click to expand...

It was actually Hindus who propagated this saying as gratitude. But in today's times it has been used against them by some Sikhs to demonstrate (and shove down their throats) the superiority of "Sikhism" (in quotes because Sikhism defined by the ego is not Sikhism). A belief has been propagated that because Sikhs are superior, Hindus are trying to sabotage them. "They are all conspiring against us." "Evil Brahmin conspiracy to destroy Sikhism" These are false beliefs that comes out of ignorance and leads to nothing but paranoia, rage, hostility and further ignorance.

Believing is seeing._


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## Luckysingh (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

Thank you for that information Bhagat ji.
I was aware that  forces were coming from hindus taking the new sikh faith but wasn't aware of any figures or percentages.
My reference and understanding was for the bravery of estabilished new sikhs, that already were standing up to muslim conversion for the sake of other hindus.

I will try and learn a few more facts and figures with regards to this issue and thanks again for highlighting this point.

Lucky Singh


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

Bhagat Singh ji I know you are talking history and living in the past.  Past was very good in many ways but that is not 2012.  The pendulam is swinging towards contraction of Sikhism through Hinduism and not expansion through Hinduism.  I have some comments,


BhagatSingh said:


> Nope not entirely true. What we are never told is that 99% of the Khalsa forces are coming from Hindus who are taking amrit.
> _From your understanding how many Hindus took Amrit in 2011?_
> 
> In families first born son was initiated into Khalsa and was expected to die for the Guru. What we are also not told about is our Muslim allies and mercenary armies during Guru Gobind Singh ji's time (especially battle of Bhangani, a few Udasis also fought in the Battle of Bhangani.) and Muslim infantry and artillery units during Maharaja Ranjit Singh ji's time.
> ...


Sat Sri Akal.


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## Manni Singh 85 (Mar 21, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

99% Hindus became Sikhs first and then they took Amrit and become Khalsa.  

I may be wrong.  Khima karna


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 21, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*



Manni Singh 85 said:


> 99% Hindus became Sikhs first and then they took Amrit and become Khalsa.
> 
> I may be wrong.  Khima karna


I don't believe there is any debate about the origin for Sikhs to be predominantly from Hindus.  But once they are Sikh they are Sikh.  The creation of some dualities as realities in this regards is distasteful to say the least and a rejection of what our Guru ji created and did for us.  Many a thousands of Sikhs who died to so protect are also distastefully disposed off through such mindsets of Hidnu-Sikh virtual dualities promotion.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 21, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

Ambarsaria ji,
Perhaps the problems we face are misunderstood, meaning what we think is the problem isn't the problem and thus the solutions that are being implemented do not address what the actual problem is.

I am not living in the past as I do understand the situation in 2012. What I am doing is encouraging an understanding of the past, a correct understanding of the past so that solutions to modern problems can be tackled under the guidance of the correct understanding. The past allows us to understand who we are and if we don't understand that then we don't understand much.



> From your understanding how many Hindus offered their first son to be a Sikh [ Khalsa] in 2011?


 From the Hindu perspective there is now no need to join the Khalsa military order.



> Nobody says Sikhs are superior most level headed just say Sikhs are not Hindus! Where is the error in that?


Not too sure what that means any more. It seems it's apparent meaning is not its actual meaning.

Hindu can mean one whose ancestors are from the Hind (India). 

Hindu can also mean one who follows Hinduism. But Hinduism is not a religion, it is a collection of traditions (with differing philosophies, perspectives, practices, etc). You cannot technically follow Hinduism. So Hindu in the sense of following Hinduism is a meaningless label. Now Hinduism has this guru-sikh propagation mechanism whereby a sikh seeks a guru under whose guidance he can learn about the guru's tradition, his particular philosophy, beliefs and set of practices and work through it to make his life better and to achieve mukti. All the various traditions were spread by gurus this way. E.g. the Bhakti tradition in Northern India: Guru Ramanand ji passed on his beliefs to his sikhs, one of which was Bhagat Kabir (who never became a Guru), and Bhagat Kabir ji along with other Bhakti saints passed on the Bhakti tradition to Guru Nanak Dev ji who passes them down to Guru Angad Dev ji and so on. Remember the tradition is spreading so there are other Gurus and Sants who are propagating these beliefs throughout North India. Guru Nanak and his successors start to gain more popularity however especially when the latter 5 enter into politics and military. 

Bhagat Kabir ji (1440–1518) was the Sikh of Guru Ramanand ji (1400-1476), who was the Sikh of Guru Raghavanand ji (or Acharya Raghavanand), who was the Sikh of... (don't know at this point)... they followed the Vishitadvaita philosophy of Guru Ramanuja ji (or Ramanujacharya; 1017-1137) who was the Sikh of Guru Kancipurna ji and so on and so forth.

Sant Ramanand ji as he is referred to, was a significant proponent of the Bhakti movement in Northern India, he influenced a lot of people. His disciples include the following Bhagats whose bani is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji: Dhanna ji , Pipa ji, Ravidas ji, Sain ji. The beliefs of Guru Nanak Dev ji and his successors can be traced back as such. It is a continuing tradition. 

This is the reality of the situation.



> I am sorry was it Muslims who killed tens of thousands of Sikhs in the name of danger to India in 1984 and the eighties and nineties. You should re-check the 1984 section articles at spn.


I am sorry was it not the Hindus who were saving Sikhs from the mobs aroused by a few Congress party members. I am sorry was it not the 20% Sikh Indian army (with a Sikh General) who were given the task to flush out the militants. I am sorry was it not the Sikh Punjab police who set-up the curfew, and who were going around looking for militants.

Things are not as black and white as you make them to be Ambarsaria ji. Look at ALL of the details.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Mar 21, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

It seems that Sikhs have or are forgetting their zero-zero I mean point of Origin.
The problem is that we openly do not say that only Khalsa is a Sikh.
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## sanj007 (Mar 21, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*



> There is a just cause for justice for 1984,
> _This is most disgusting comment. This was a planned attack on Sikhism and nothing else. Of course led by the favorite daughter of India._


 
You have taken this completely the wrong way, am talking about just cause for justice to be met on those butchers who killed innocent human beings just for being Sikh, condemn the attack on the sacred Golden Temple. 
Favourite daughter of India does not mean she has right to act in unjustful manner as she did, so she after that is not favourite daughter. You see without Justice a nation does not move forward, and especially the people who have been affected by these barbaric acts.



> One person does not make a community. There are lot of Sikhs acting as non-Sikhs in their activities. So it is not as black and white as you state.


 
One person indeed does not, but that is not the point, if you have a plan you do not put forward the leadership of the country to people you are against, as it does not add up, it is contrary to your said position therefore is not the case.



> Why should there be protests as Sikhs did not care and Hindus don't mind if a Sikh is there who acts like Hindus or carried forward with their agenda. In this case Congress agenda.


 
Hold on, if there was a movement against Sikhs then surely there would have been protests, this assetion of yours that PM Singh acts like a hindu is yours not the vast majority of people of India, there are not clued up, or what is going on, they just see a SIKH person as leader of their nation, and what thoughts go through their minds, if they dont like this they would protest, but were there any?



> At its very core, Congress is driven by Arya Samaj as mentioned in another post. So the future with such Congress and BJP is equally bad for all minorities in India.


 
Congress and arya samaj, find that funny, congress are definately not hindu party, what acts give you cause to believe this?

You see end of the day, justice for all citizens regardless of faith, colour or whatever is required, people are not tied to the nation, the nation is served by people who are corrupt, hence when India has leaders who are not corrupt then proper justice will come, Indian justice is sadly lacking behind UK, check the pitiable state of the Kashmir pandits refugees in their own country!


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 21, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

Dogra ji thanks for your post.  Some comments.





dogra said:


> You have taken this completely the wrong way, am talking about just cause for justice to be met on those butchers who killed innocent human beings just for being Sikh, condemn the attack on the sacred Golden Temple.
> _My apoliogies I did take it the wrong way.  I read your post as though you supported attack on the Golden Temple and subsequent to 1984 events as justifiable because Gandhi was killed by Sikhs._
> 
> Favorite daughter of India does not mean she has right to act in unjustful manner as she did, so she after that is not favourite daughter.
> ...


Regards.


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## sanj007 (Mar 22, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*



> There is a wonderful post available on the web which shows how much institutions (it may even be posted by someone at spn) , monuments and programs are specifically controlled and named after the Gandhi clan._ So functionally the Gandhis are the revered or limelight family._


 
Well, Indira has some weight due to her response to Bangladesh 1971, when plan to kill 3 million was ordered by President yaha Khan himself, was put into action and over 10 million refugees and hindu community targeted occured. But her emergency powers and attack on sacred Goldem Temple and Rajiv Ghandhi lack of action during Nov 84, together with more relevations about swiss bank accounts, and the dynasty garbage has left many people against this family.



> This is called manipulation. They showed a Sikh Army commander being the lead in attack on the Golden Temple. _Same is done all over the world. It is controlled manipulative and puppet leadership. Manmohan Singh is a perfect fall guy whenever Rahul comes to save Mother India for the bad deeds done by a Sikh Prime Minister._


 
Well, PM Singh was voted in by the people, fact that he is a Sikh, to the vast majority of voters means they did not allow this fact to not vote for him, and there also were no protests against a Sikh being PM, so how can Rahul save the day, any misaction by PM Singh will not be treated because he is Sikh but because he himself misplaned, but remember it was PM Singh who in early 90s opened Indias economy which helped India and that will not be forgotten!
You simply dont put people to top positions if u are against that community, another e.g. General Joginder Singh top chief of the army, Cricket Captain MS Dhoni, these appointments dont just happen if there a master plan against a community, and what about memorial to the Ninth master recently, what signal does this send out? More to the point Congress leadders know a very bad deeds occured during 1984, so in their own way they are trying to correct, but problem is they are corrupt so full justice is not being meted out as yet to those butchers like Tytler and Sajan Kumar.



> This is political packaging. Whether the Congress wants to malign Manmohan Singh they will create these agitations. That day i snot too far into the future.


 
Again disagree, only  maligning will be done if lining their swiss bank account is not done, this is their main aim, they are corrupt!



> Congress is Gandhis. Nothing is more Arya Samaj than Gandhis. They claim to be secular and democratic we know how much that is!


 
Again can you show acts and links that verify your claim, as i find it laughable that u claim this, as they are not Hindu party. India is not a perfect secular democracy as UK, but imporatnt point is that it is on the pathway of secular democracy which is important.



> Pitiable state is relative. Think about the thousand's and thousands killed in the name of peace and security in India since 1947. It will show the number of minorities (Sikhs and Muslims) just overwhelm any small number of Hindus killed or hurt. You need to see this. I understand the official line is these are all bad people and that is why they were killed? Is it possible they simply wanted just the same way you are espousing it for Kashmiri Pandits.


 
Again condemn all violence against innocent human beings regardless of faith equally. Bad people are those who kill innocent human beings, and these bad people are in all communities. Fact is political parties allowed 1984 and gujurat 2002. Though 2002 was started differently but not stopped when it could have been

You also need to see that kashmiri pandits deaths and expulsion is not a nimor event, they are a minority in Kashmir valley, now an extreme minority, check other  minority areas in India like kerala what events are happening there, check Hyderabad and recent proposed banning of Ram event which has prompted Bhagat Singh Kranti sena to respond.
Want the same for the Sikh community Muslim community and Kashmir pandits. 
Hindus have brutalised for 800 years, still in Bangladesh population of Hindus diminishes, Pakistan regular cases of forced conversions, but realise India has a lot to do to get its house in order.


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## Inderjeet Kaur (Mar 23, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

Whatever.  I will continue as I have done for many years.  When a Hindu dares to disrespect Sikhs in my presence, , I will look him (in my experience, it has always been  a man) squarely in the eyes and say, "If it weren't for us your name would be Mohammed and you'd be married to Fatima and Miriam and maybe a couple more."

I admit that's a conversation stopper and not very diplomatic, but it has the advantage of being the truth.  

Our brave brother, Bhai Balwant Singh Rajoana, is to be hanged in a few days.  Perhaps it would be good and useful to look at the present for a bit instead of just wandering around in the past and speculating on the future.

animatedkhanda1


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## BaljinderS (Mar 23, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

After all that has happened to Sikhs, they still respect Hindus or any other religion.  This will not change even if all the Sikhs in India are massacred.  Our fight is against injustice, in any form.  If we ever disrespected another religion or people purely on their belief then we have no right to call our selves Sikhs.

Hindus should learn a bit of respect for all the Sikhs have done for India otherwise they ARE painting their own face black and ruining their own destiny.  I am not saying that all Hindu brothers/sisters hold the same view but this is happening at the top level by the Hindu run government.

If any Hindu in the government has any shame or self respect they should come out and let the world know the truth.  

Those who fight injustice at all costs will be remembered FOR EVER and will be an inspiration to all Sikhs.  This will only make the Sikhs stronger not weaker.


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## Inderjeet Kaur (Mar 23, 2012)

*Re: Sikhi - End Game*

Sikhi, in some form, will continue as long as there is someone who can read and try to understand Gurbani.  

It does seem to be end game for Bhai Balwqant Singh Rajoana, who knows how to play the game of life to win!


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