# And When The Swan Soul Leaves The Body, Then ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਕਰਿ ਭਾਗੀ



## japjisahib04 (Sep 25, 2013)

ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਜਾਨਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਮਨ ਮਾਹੀ ॥
O dear friend, know this in your mind.
ਅਪਨੇ ਸੁਖ ਸਿਉ ਹੀ ਜਗੁ ਫਾਂਧਿਓ ਕੋ ਕਾਹੂ ਕੋ ਨਾਹੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
The world is entangled in its own pleasures; no one is for anyone else. ||1||Pause||
ਸੁਖ ਮੈ ਆਨਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਬੈਠਤ ਰਹਤ ਚਹੂ ਦਿਸਿ ਘੇਰੈ ॥
In good times, many come and sit together, surrounding you on all four sides.
ਬਿਪਤਿ ਪਰੀ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਸੰਗੁ ਛਾਡਿਤ ਕੋਊ ਨ ਆਵਤ ਨੇਰੈ ॥੧॥
But when hard times come, they all leave, and no one comes near you. ||1||

ਘਰ ਕੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਹਿਤੁ ਜਾ ਸਿਉ ਸਦਾ ਰਹਤ ਸੰਗ ਲਾਗੀ ॥
Your wife, whom you love so much, and who has remained ever attached to you,
ਜਬ ਹੀ ਹੰਸ ਤਜੀ ਇਹ ਕਾਂਇਆ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਕਰਿ ਭਾਗੀ ॥੨॥
runs away crying, "Ghost! Ghost!", as soon as the swan-soul leaves this body. ||2||

Normally this pankti  is linked with wife and has been interpreted accordingly by almost all the scholars. It is my belief that Gurbani is Universal Truth and each and every sabd opens up a new concept to make our life sachiar and applies to whole humanity irrespective of caste, creed, religions, age,  gender, THAT IS WHY GURBANI IS CALLED SATGURU (Divine wisdom). When we link above pankti with wife, then does it mean this pankti does not apply to husband, bachelor or those ladies who are not married and all of them are singled out. 

Further, logical question arises, when husband dies what else should we expect from the wife other than feeling sorry and take his body for final cremation rituals or she should sit around the dead body and perform lamp-lit worship with incense (aarti) i.e. lady has been understood for running away shouting pret pret.  When wife dies, husband also feels sorry accordingly and move on with his life, then why do we discriminate and are biased towards woman. At least Panj Pyares of our Highest institution should be able to comprehend and understand the message of Guru sahib. At least they should know 'aath pehr prabh kou means installation of anti virus divine software and not parroting.  But from their body language, their fatwa, their walk and talk to me I feel ashamed that Highest institution has been controlled by these  ignorant and as such the brave quam is reduced to laughing stock. 

Over here when gurbani says ‘pritam jaan’ it does not mean gurbani is addressing to friends or the beloved (who is residing in every heart sabhai ghat ram bolai)as the one who understand Him does not discriminate others especially by gender but is addressing to my tainted manh. 

Then comes 'ghar ki naar' in above pankti. Let us contemplate on rahao pankti which is the central idea of this sabd, 'pritam jaan lehu mann mahi' guru sahib is pointing towards himself as a first person - so  here 'ghar ki naar' is my tainted 'maligned intellect' and not housewife, who has opened his own devil workshop and is emotionally attached with it.     

Therefore meaning of, 'Jab Hee Hans Thajee Eih Kaaneiaa Praeth Praeth Kar Bhaagee' when I forsake 'hans birti' divine intellect, my body become 'prat jivan di bhagi or grave yard where only ghost resides or ghost birti becomes part of my thought process, as Kabir ji has rightly said, 'ਕਬੀਰ ਜਾ ਘਰ ਸਾਧ ਨ ਸੇਵੀਅਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਨਾਹਿ ॥ਤੇ ਘਰ ਮਰਹਟ ਸਾਰਖੇ ਭੂਤ ਬਸਹਿ ਤਿਨ ਮਾਹਿ ॥੧੯੨॥ - those houses in which neither the divine wisdom nor God are served those houses are like cremation grounds, demons dwells within that body.  Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.  1374.16. Thus it has got nothing to do with soul or death. Here 'bhaagi' is not run away but accountable to ghost birti.

I am only a student and would love share and look forward further improvement in my understand from learned members.

best regards
sahni


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## spnadmin (Sep 25, 2013)

*Re: "and When the Swan Soul Leaves the Body, then ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਕਰਿ ਭਾਗੀ "*

I had to include some English words to the pankti because Gurmukhi does not show up properly in the links on the home page itself. Some part, the first part, of a title has to be in Roman alphabet. English is preferable because the official language of the forum is English, making it possible for both English and Punjabi speakers to get a sense of the topic to go with the link title.

Thank you.


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## Ishna (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks for sharing ji.

When I read this, I've never give much thought to the actual wife. When I read it, I see an example of how fake and hollow life is, because we'll all die, and ultimately* the only relationship which is real is with Akaal Purakh*. The painktee isn't making a judgement on anyone or about the scenario - it's just giving an example from real life to illustrate the truth, that when we die we leave people behind and they carry on their lives as if we weren't there.

Are we sure it needs to be any more complicated than being a mere illustration to prove a simple yet profound point?


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 26, 2013)

Ishna Jee

Gurbani is full of precious pearls but unfortunately there are very few takers. My way of understanding and explaining gurbani with logic is not liked by majority, but it does not bother me as I strongly believe in guru's vaak, 'ਨਾਨਕ ਗਇਆ ਜਾਪੈ ਜਾਇ ॥੩੪॥ only by living one recognizes the price of these gems. Thanks for sharing

best regards
sahni


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## chazSingh (Sep 27, 2013)

Ishna said:


> Thanks for sharing ji.
> 
> When I read this, I've never give much thought to the actual wife. When I read it, I see an example of how fake and hollow life is, because we'll all die, and ultimately* the only relationship which is real is with Akaal Purakh*. The painktee isn't making a judgement on anyone or about the scenario - it's just giving an example from real life to illustrate the truth, that when we die we leave people behind and they carry on their lives as if we weren't there.
> 
> Are we sure it needs to be any more complicated than being a mere illustration to prove a simple yet profound point?


 
Yup, well said. it's just an example...gurbani cannot list every possible scenario or example...it's the underlying message behind the example that can be applied to any person, male female...married, un-married, etc etc etc


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## spnadmin (Sep 29, 2013)

ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ॥ 
Soraṯẖ mėhlā 9. 
Sorat'h, Ninth Mehl: 

ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਜਾਨਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਮਨ ਮਾਹੀ ॥ 
Parīṯam jān leho man māhī. 
O dear friend, know this in your mind. 

ਅਪਨੇ ਸੁਖ ਸਿਉ ਹੀ ਜਗੁ ਫਾਂਧਿਓ ਕੋ ਕਾਹੂ ਕੋ ਨਾਹੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
Apne sukẖ si▫o hī jag fāŉḏẖi▫o ko kāhū ko nāhī. ||1|| rahā▫o. 
The world is entangled in its own pleasures; no one is for anyone else. ||1||Pause|| 

ਸੁਖ ਮੈ ਆਨਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਬੈਠਤ ਰਹਤ ਚਹੂ ਦਿਸਿ ਘੇਰੈ ॥ 
Sukẖ mai ān bahuṯ mil baiṯẖaṯ rahaṯ cẖahū ḏis gẖerai. 
In good times, many come and sit together, surrounding you on all four sides. 

ਬਿਪਤਿ ਪਰੀ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਸੰਗੁ ਛਾਡਿਤ ਕੋਊ ਨ ਆਵਤ ਨੇਰੈ ॥੧॥ 
Bipaṯ parī sabẖ hī sang cẖẖādiṯ ko▫ū na āvaṯ nerai. ||1|| 
But when hard times come, they all leave, and no one comes near you. ||1|| 

ਘਰ ਕੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਹਿਤੁ ਜਾ ਸਿਉ ਸਦਾ ਰਹਤ ਸੰਗ ਲਾਗੀ ॥ 
Gẖar kī nār bahuṯ hiṯ jā si▫o saḏā rahaṯ sang lāgī. 
Your wife, whom you love so much, and who has remained ever attached to you, 

ਜਬ ਹੀ ਹੰਸ ਤਜੀ ਇਹ ਕਾਂਇਆ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਕਰਿ ਭਾਗੀ ॥੨॥ 
Jab hī hans ṯajī ih kāŉ▫i▫ā pareṯ pareṯ kar bẖāgī. ||2|| 
runs away crying, "Ghost! Ghost!", as soon as the swan-soul leaves this body. ||2|| 

ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਕੋ ਬਿਉਹਾਰੁ ਬਨਿਓ ਹੈ ਜਾ ਸਿਉ ਨੇਹੁ ਲਗਾਇਓ ॥ 
Ih biḏẖ ko bi▫uhār bani▫o hai jā si▫o nehu lagā▫i▫o. 
This is the way they act - those whom we love so much. 

ਅੰਤ ਬਾਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਜੀ ਕੋਊ ਕਾਮਿ ਨ ਆਇਓ ॥੩॥੧੨॥੧੩੯॥ 
Anṯ bār Nānak bin har jī ko▫ū kām na ā▫i▫o. ||3||12||139|| 
At the very last moment, O Nanak, no one is any use at all, except the Dear Lord. ||3||12||139|| 


The shabad on its face seems melancholy, almost to say that in times of adversity and in the hours and days surrounding our death, those who admired us and were attached to us will not come near. Even a much-loved wife believes she sees a ghost 'paret' and runs in fear when the swan-soul 'hans' leaves the body. Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa’s translation is a poetic English translation. However, I broke with his translation in places because I feel he has missed the point. Forgive my errors, because I found the grammar ambiguous in places,  and correct me where I am wrong. 

Probing a little deeper the images provide some other views, and the shabad could be seen to be a hopeful and uplifting message, and not so colored by feelings of being resigned to unreliable friends and family members who in the end abandon us.  The shabad may even describe spiritual rebirth, where the one who dies in ego is the one who abandons familiar sources of contentment.

Pondering, ਅਪਨੇ ਸੁਖ ਸਿਉ ਹੀ ਜਗੁ ਫਾਂਧਿਓ ਕੋ ਕਾਹੂ ਕੋ ਨਾਹੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
Apne sukẖ si▫o hī jag fāŉḏẖi▫o ko kāhū ko nāhī. ||1|| rahā▫o. 
The world is entangled in its own pleasures; no one is for anyone else. ||1||Pause| 

Take as a given that 'jag,' our universe is debilitated by entanglements in personal pleasures, few of us can be truly there for others. Guru Teg Bahadur ji is saying that very few people are able to free themselves from the bondage to the pleasure they gain from the illusions they have about their place in the world.

Next, consider some of the powerful images Guruji presents that burst these personal myths.

 ਸੁਖ ਮੈ ਆਨਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਬੈਠਤ ਰਹਤ ਚਹੂ ਦਿਸਿ ਘੇਰੈ ॥ 
Sukẖ mai ān bahuṯ mil baiṯẖaṯ rahaṯ cẖahū ḏis gẖerai. 
In good times, many come and sit together, surrounding you on all four sides.  

This tuk is actually saying that times of happiness and good fortune your house its 4 corners with friends and associates (those joined to you)

Friends avoid us in adversity, and even a spouse may run in fear. 

ਬਿਪਤਿ ਪਰੀ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਸੰਗੁ ਛਾਡਿਤ ਕੋਊ ਨ ਆਵਤ ਨੇਰੈ ॥੧॥ 
Bipaṯ parī sabẖ hī sang cẖẖādiṯ ko▫ū na āvaṯ nerai. ||1|| 
But when hard times come, they all leave, and no one comes near you. ||1|| 

 This tuk is saying when times of adversity come, fair women will not keep company with you (and by implication neither will your friends and associates);  indeed even your wife draws away. We enjoy the company of friends and family in good times, but they avoid us in times of distress. The image is that of spiritual alienation. Guru Teg Bahadur is alluding to the Brahmin belief in samskars, or imprints from positive and negative experiences in life attach to our minds and color our destiny. Good and bad samskars are contagious. Our samskars attach to those around us. Hence, a person in distress, or at the time of death, is a problem because no one can endure negative samskars to burden them in their own reincarnation to a next life. This was the thinking of Guru’s time. And it was so deeply ingrained that ...

ਘਰ ਕੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਹਿਤੁ ਜਾ ਸਿਉ ਸਦਾ ਰਹਤ ਸੰਗ ਲਾਗੀ ॥ 
Gẖar kī nār bahuṯ hiṯ jā si▫o saḏā rahaṯ sang lāgī. 
Your wife, whom you love so much, and who has remained ever attached to you,  

Meaning the wife that you kept in your own house, who was always tied to you,

ਜਬ ਹੀ ਹੰਸ ਤਜੀ ਇਹ ਕਾਂਇਆ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਕਰਿ ਭਾਗੀ ॥੨॥ 
Jab hī hans ṯajī ih kāŉ▫i▫ā pareṯ pareṯ kar bẖāgī. ||2|| 
runs away crying, "Ghost! Ghost!", as soon as the swan-soul leaves this body. ||2|| 

In this shabad, as in other shabads, Guru Teg Bahadur ji consistently uses Hindu imagery to turn the tables on Brahmin beliefs. Particularly in this tuk he relates beliefs about death and the soul after death. A wife who was once attached to her husband at his death now recoils. In the shabad she runs in horror from a ghost. This is not a ghost in the western sense of a lingering soul, but the karmic residue of a dead person that can contaminate his survivors. The wife of a dead man could not touch him; his body had to be turned over, with even the jewels he might be wearing at the time of death, to a member of the Sudra caste who would dispose of the remains. By tradition a wife had to pull away in distress or risk her own purity. 

Guru ji then labels the moment of death “when the swan-soul leaves the body.” The image of swan-soul is not a simple image of the soul as a swan in flight from the dead person’s spent body. Guru ji has deliberately picked the swan to foreshadow the end verses of the shabad. The swan is a special bird in Hindu mythology because it inhabits more than one plane of being: the earth, the water, the sky. It is often taken to mean a being at ease and in perfect balance in more than one habitat. It is capable of moving from one realm to the other with ease. The swan therefore becomes a symbol of the soul that is ready and able to merge with the Brahman and change its spiritual status. So, it is with a swan soul leaving the body and leaving beind those fearful of samskars and ghosts that Guruji leads us to the last verse. This is where he turns the tables.

ਅੰਤ ਬਾਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਜੀ ਕੋਊ ਕਾਮਿ ਨ ਆਇਓ ॥੩॥੧੨॥੧੩੯॥ 
Anṯ bār Nānak bin har jī ko▫ū kām na ā▫i▫o. ||3||12||139|| 
At the very last moment, O Nanak, no one is any use at all, except the 

Dear Lord. ||3||12||139|| 

The journey is complete and at its end, 'ant,'  we are at a threshold, 'bar,' without Har,  'bin Har'... satisfaction there is none 'kam na a-i-o.' This tuk can mean that kam, usually meaning sense gratification, no longer has any value once our material attachment to the world and friends and loved ones is severed. In the final days, hours, and moments, on the threshold of _life into death_ ‘Ant bar’ no one can give gratification, ‘kam,’ except ‘Har.’ However, the tuk might also mean, at the threshold of _death into life,_ your friendships will have a different meaning, and your wife may not recognize you (she sees only the ghost of your former self).  Only our attachment with Har, the indestructible truth, can satisfy us then.  Only a swan soul is ready and able to find oneness with Akaal.


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## aristotle (Sep 29, 2013)

> Guru ji has deliberately picked the swan to foreshadow the end verses of the shabad. The swan is a special bird in Hindu mythology because it inhabits more than one plane of being: the earth, the water, the sky. It is often taken to mean a being at ease and in perfect balance in more than one habitat. It is capable of moving from one realm to the other
> with ease. The swan therefore becomes a symbol of the soul that is ready and able to merge with the Brahman and change its spiritual status.



Thanks SpnadminJi, you answered my question even before I posted it.


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## spnadmin (Sep 29, 2013)

aristotle ji

There is something I cannot put my finger on yet in this shabad that tells me that the flight of the soul after physical death is not the complete message. The way that swan-soul is used very deliberately here makes me think I have more thinking to do.


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## Luckysingh (Sep 29, 2013)

spnadmin said:


> ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ॥
> Soraṯẖ mėhlā 9.
> Sorat'h, Ninth Mehl:
> 
> ...



That was beautifully presented :blueturban:


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## spnadmin (Sep 29, 2013)

Lucky ji

I am so serious. There is something ... a big chunk missing... help find the missing link!


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## Luckysingh (Sep 29, 2013)

spnadmin said:


> aristotle ji
> 
> There is something I cannot put my finger on yet in this shabad that tells me that the flight of the soul after physical death is not the complete message. The way that swan-soul is used very deliberately here makes me think I have more thinking to do.



I think it's more about the affections and attachments to our loved ones, rather than the death.
Remembering that Death of the Ego is of more significance for a sikh of the Guru.
The affections and attachments to loved ones, ALL stem from the ego-mind.
9th Guruji also mentions elsewhere about the mind being like a dog's tail that can never be straightened with ease.

The swan, I think has many qualities as you mention.
A gurmukh is someimes equated to the swan that can separate milk from water.

I think we might get further understanding from cross-referencing with Bhai Gurdas ji's Varan here. 
I shall try and learn further some time later.
(very busy editing music at the moment -just browsing in between file saves)


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 29, 2013)

spnadmin said:


> Probing a little deeper the images provide some other views, and the shabad could be seen to be a hopeful and uplifting message, and not so colored by feelings of being resigned to unreliable friends and family members who in the end abandon us.  The shabad may even describe spiritual rebirth, where the one who dies in ego is the one who abandons familiar sources of contentment.
> 
> Pondering, ਅਪਨੇ ਸੁਖ ਸਿਉ ਹੀ ਜਗੁ ਫਾਂਧਿਓ ਕੋ ਕਾਹੂ ਕੋ ਨਾਹੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
> Apne sukẖ si▫o hī jag fāŉḏẖi▫o ko kāhū ko nāhī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
> ...


Spnadmin Jee

With apologies, the understanding that every one is engrossed in his/her own comforts and none is for another is true to some extent but to state that gurbani is endorsing and encouraging such type of ideology, I feel is not fair and is an insult to humanity or to those who are deeply, emotionally attached with their dearest. If this was the case, Guru sahib would have never advocated grehast Jivan. This way we remain no more than a machine and there will be no Love, attachment, sentiment - everything would have been on contract basis.

Once we read together this panti of kabir jee  'ਕਬੀਰ ਜਾ ਦਿਨ ਹਉ ਮੂਆ ਪਾਛੈ ਭਇਆ ਅਨੰਦੁ ॥ ਮੋਹਿ ਮਿਲਿਓ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਪਨਾ ਸੰਗੀ ਭਜਹਿ ਗਬਿੰਦੁ ॥੬॥ Kabeer, on the day ego vanishes, afterwards there shall be bliss and I shall enjoy  ecastacy with Oneness, then who are these, 'ਸੰਗੀ ਭਜਹਿ ਗਬਿੰਦੁ ॥ *shall all my friends and companions will join in His praise or my body organs indray and gian indray will join to sing His praise'* with above pankti, we will be better able to understand it.    

Kabir Jee is telling his mind to grab this opportunity and realize that your companions e.g. tongue, ear, nose, kaam are only interested in their pleasure and they will never like that you come out from this 'jag - tainted mind' and change your habits as at difficult time none will come to rescue, thus let divine wisdom be the base of your 'jag - your thought process and control them so that body is not unnecessarily eroded in superfluous acts.  So I feel Guru sahib is pointing towards himself as a first person and not referring to selfishness of wife, friends or family members or general public. 

You will notice 'ਹੰਸੁ' appeared more than thousand times in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and at most places it denotes hans birtee and 'ant baar' means the moment you ignore the truth and not last moment of life.

best regards
sahni


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## Luckysingh (Sep 29, 2013)

> So I feel Guru sahib is pointing towards himself as a first person and  not referring to selfishness of friends or family members or general  public.



Yes, that I agree with. But don't forget that it is the SELF-EGO that gives rise to the attachments and affections for close ones.
Therefore, I don't think that anyone has made a wrong point or is off track.
Of course,we are told to Love and have grihasti jeevan. But this Love is for ALL of humanity and All that are around us.
 Sad;y,the Ego makes us put our close ones in our personal 'Affection' bubbles and exclude all others outside this bubble.
However, the True Lord becomes harder to acknowledge when we are too busy attached with all those inside our bubble. 
At death, this bubble bursts and all those within it, blend in with the excludes from earlier. But the Lord Almighty is the Only One that remains close and embedded within us and was Inside and Outside the Bubble all along!


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## spnadmin (Sep 29, 2013)

japjisahib ji

The shabad is saying this, without argument, but implying this learning, not saying it directly. 



> realize that your companions e.g. tongue, ear, nose, kaam are only interested in their pleasure and they will never like that you come out from this 'jag - tainted mind' and change your habits as at difficult time none will come to rescue, thus let divine wisdom be the base of your 'jag - your thought process and control them so that body is not unnecessarily eroded in superfluous acts. So I feel Guru sahib is pointing towards himself as a first person



But first you have to examine what the words say before you can get to the moral lesson. Guru Tej Bahadur was using reality and describing reality to move on the final tuk. Ordinary experience of ordinary people of his time. 

Often I find myself trying to overcome my own frustration with the tendency to say Guru ji  says in shabad xxx ...... and a moral lesson yyy follows. Then one is left wondering how on earth do we get to that lesson from the words I am reading before my eyes. It is so arbitrary to do that, yet we do that all the time. And when we do it the majesty of Guruji's use of imagery is overlooked; yet that imagery is how we learn, and get to the end of the shabad.

So that is what I am trying to do. Look at the words, and then say 





> The journey is complete and at its end, 'ant,' we are at a threshold, 'bar,' without Har, 'bin Har'... satisfaction there is none 'kam na a-i-o.' This tuk can mean that kam, usually meaning sense gratification, no longer has any value once our material attachment to the world and friends and loved ones is severed. In the final days, hours, and moments, on the threshold of life into death ‘Ant bar’ no one can give gratification, ‘kam,’ except ‘Har.’ However, the tuk might also mean, at the threshold of death into life, your friendships will have a different meaning, and your wife may not recognize you (she sees only the ghost of your former self). Only our attachment with Har, the indestructible truth, can satisfy us then. Only a swan soul is ready and able to find oneness with Akaal



Every shabad has a logical progression of ideas. Humans are not insulted nor are women demeaned in the shabad by my  'wrong' translation. 

Women were as much trapped by social beliefs then as women are today by other beliefs. The world fills our minds with delusion. To touch a dead body was to become impure to the Brahmin. That is the way it was. The conclusion we should draw revolves around the image of the soul-swan or hans. To make the 'ant' or 'ultimate' connection with Waheguru do we become the 'swan?' What is the mistaken thinking 'in my mind' that keeps from making that connection Guru ji asks. Then he goes on and explains how our actions belie our wrong thinking. 

I cannot read the shabad by picking one idea out and then picking another idea out. It is my opinion that everything in the shabad fits together like a puzzle.


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## spnadmin (Sep 29, 2013)

Luckysingh said:


> I think it's more about the affections and attachments to our loved ones, rather than the death.
> Remembering that Death of the Ego is of more significance for a sikh of the Guru.
> The affections and attachments to loved ones, ALL stem from the ego-mind.
> 9th Guruji also mentions elsewhere about the mind being like a dog's tail that can never be straightened with ease.
> ...



I agree with you and also think that cross-referencing to all the different uses of swan in Gurbani would shed light on the image on this shabad. There are only about 20 or 25 times where hans is mentioned and that is doable.


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 29, 2013)

spnadmin said:


> japjisahib ji
> 
> The shabad is saying this, without argument, but implying this learning, not saying it directly.
> 
> ...


Spnadmin Jee

I understand your concern but gurbani is written in vernacular language where rahao is the central idea. You remember last time while I was interpreting separation from God S. Tejwant Singh Ji immediately corrected me and I realized I didn't reflect rahao while picking one liner. 

Before I start you will notice that in addition to Guru Tegh Bahadur word 'ghar ki naar' or 'ghar ki ghehan changi' has been used by Guru Arjun Dev Jee(page 737) Bhagat Ravidas Jee(page 794), Bhagat Naam Dev Jee(page 1164 and 'ghar ki ghehan changi (page 695.19) and you yourself can analyse whether guru sahiban or bhagats are referring to (lady of the house) or tainted mind of manh ki matt or following derawala's matt instead of guru ki matt.

When we interpret sweeping statement that at time of difficulties all your own leaves you is not correct at least not with me or with my family members. Almost all of them stand together during difficulties and find solution. Yes I can believe when jamm strike at manh and make him sick with regular (pal pal marna) all those organs(who were acting as companion_and who were getting power from manh,  do not stand with manh but run away.  So guru sahib is trying to tell us to beware and instead enshrine divine. When we interpret 'ant bar' or 'ant kaal' as last moment, is it correct. Can anyone predict his ant kaal or ant bar.

best regards
sahni


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## spnadmin (Sep 29, 2013)

I think you are disagreeing with me over conclusions I never stated, japjisahib ji. I made a couple of requests for anuvada and then parchaar, before aarth. That way we can see how Guruji progresses to his conclusions, and connects the aarth to the shabad instead of general principles.  What often happens is that we like the principles being propounded and forget to ask how the words themselves led to those principles. 

If we jump to aarth, then a few shabads is all we need to get to the general principles, and not 1429 pages of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If we jump to aarth, there is also no way of knowing what the better understanding is, or whether one understanding complements another understanding, because they are not contradictory. 

Rehao line is the focal point of the shabad and to leave it out of the aarth is absolutely wrong. However, the reaho line is not the only matter that needs to be taken into one's consideration when thinking about a shabad. I don't think anyone would  or has argued that. 


You would do a great favor jio if you copy the 3 or 4 ideas you are putting forth in the thread, and then tell us how they follow from the exact wording in the shabad. That way it is less likely that I will misunderstand you.


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 30, 2013)

spnadmin said:


> Spnadmin Jee
> 
> I am presenting my understanding of each pankti in bold. I hope this will clarifies.
> 
> ...


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## mandemeet (Sep 30, 2013)

japjisahib04 said:


> spnadmin said:
> 
> 
> > Spnadmin Jee
> ...


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 30, 2013)

We can always agree to disagree. Gurbani has answer for all queries. 

When kabir jee says, 'ਕਬੀਰ ਜਾ ਦਿਨ ਹਉ ਮੂਆ ਪਾਛੈ ਭਇਆ ਅਨੰਦੁ ॥ ਮੋਹਿ ਮਿਲਿਓ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਪਨਾ ਸੰਗੀ ਭਜਹਿ ਗਬਿੰਦੁ ॥੬॥ Kabeer, on the day ego 'ਹਉ ਮੂਆ' vanishes, there shall be bliss afterwards and I shall enjoy ecastacy with Oneness, then who are these, 'ਸੰਗੀ ਭਜਹਿ ਗਬਿੰਦੁ ॥ upon vanishing of ego, do the friends and relative start chanting 'waheguru waheguru' or my body organs indray and gian indray starts acting in positive and constructive manner.  Best luck.

best regards
sahni


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## japjisahib04 (Dec 3, 2013)

This sabd requires further understanding as it has a deeper message. ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਜਾਨਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਮਨ ਮਾਹੀ ॥ Realize once for all and 'ਲੇਹੁ' practice that God is within you, thus in all. Once manh' accepts and is transformed, he sees God in all - there will be no discrimination, no exploitation.

Then 'ਅਪਨੇ ਸੁਖ ਸਿਉ ਹੀ ਜਗੁ ਫਾਂਧਿਓ ਕੋ ਕਾਹੂ ਕੋ ਨਾਹੀ ॥੧॥ The world is entangled in its own pleasures; no one is for anyone else. ||1||Pause||This is a notion but there is no truth in this notion as at a time of adversary people do help and come forward. The surface meaning reveals pessimistic state thus leads to renouncing.  In addition, basic fundamental of gurbani is, 'ਹਮ ਅਵਗੁਣਿ ਭਰੇ ਏਕੁ ਗੁਣੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਛਾਡਿ ਬਿਖੈ ਬਿਖੁ ਖਾਈ ॥ SGGS 1406 - it is we, who are filled with avgun and not others. It is not the virtue of gurbani to label, highlight deficiencies of others, criticizing or blaming others. Therefore, we should be very careful in opening up the interpretation of Rahao pankti which opens the concept of the sabd. This line contains a word 'jagh'.   In japjisahib guru sahib says, 'manh jeetai jagh jeet - once manh is transformed, all the 'jagh - kutamb' of sensory organs are chanellized - it is not the universe or the world which is conquered and which cannot be. Guru sahib is trying to tell that if you don't consider God is within you, your manh will entangle all sensory organs in momentarily pleasure - it is free for all situation.  Thus once we understand the meaning of 'jagh', it will be very easy to interpret 'ghar ki naar', pret pret, 'ਹੰਸ',  ' ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਕੋ ਬਿਉਹਾਰੁ ਬਨਿਓ ਹੈ ਜਾ ਸਿਉ ਨੇਹੁ ਲਗਾਇਓ ॥ - is it laws of nature or notion or 'ਅੰਤ ਬਾਰ'. 

bet regards
sahni


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## Taranjeet singh (Dec 3, 2013)

Japjisahib04 ji,

I read your posts very carefully lest I may infer something that is not to be inferred.There are some posts in this thread that are fairly complicated for reasons best known to the authors of the posts.

Given below is the interpretation /explanation as given by Sahib Singh ji. This is a neutral source and is well accepted for the reference purposes.

Also after carefully going through the interpretation of shabd and Katha of Giani Thakur singh ji it is concluded that they have assigned the meanings in ordinary fashion i.e sans metaphors.The message conveyed is simple as has been expressed by Ishna ji in her post that appears at perm link -3. This has also been analysed by Spnadmin ji. I have no reasons to believe that there are metaphors that require debugging nor there is any need of deep probing. 

Shabad conveys a simple message that needs no repetition as it has been nicely summed up by Ishna ji that it is God who is with us when we are given farewell from this world and we should remember Him when or till we are here.

May be , Sir, we are at different levels of understanding things depending upon the trajectory of our spiritual growth. Still I remain grateful to you as learning new things is an experience in itself. A sikh is a learner through out his life.

warm Regards



> ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ॥
> Sorat'h, Ninth Mehl:
> xxx
> xxx
> ...


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## Singhgurvinder (Dec 4, 2013)

Interpretation sound strange but looks logical. What intrigued me most is the new translation of word 'kutamb of sensory organs'. It used to puzzle me, at many occasion that on one hand gurbani inspires us in lavan for 'privarti karam dhridhiya balram jeo' but on the contrary it tells 'eh kutamb sabh kudh hai'. If His creation is 'kudh' then defininately something is wrong with Him as gurbani also tells us, 'nanak sachai ki sachi kar'. Thus this 'bai laagam kutamb of sensory organ my thought pattern which is kudh and not His creation.  With this new meaning of 'kutamb' I think I will be able to solve this contradiction. I even used to get surprised on 'eh kutamb jo tu daikda chalai nahi tere naalai' and used to cross question why should I expect someone to go with me after the death. And what good this 'kutamb' could do at last moment of my life or why do I need them last moment of my life.  Thus 'ਅੰਤ ਬਾਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਜੀ ਕੋਊ ਕਾਮਿ ਨ ਆਇਓ is not the physical death but the message is of spiritual death. And at spiritual death other than guru ka sabd nothing is of any use. 

Though Ishna ji has put it very well but that is not the message of sabd. Though we sikh believe that it is all inner journey but when we translate guru ka sabd, we forget we have to link inner sensory organ to apply the real essence for outer relations.


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## ravneet_sb (Jan 6, 2020)

Sat Sri Akaal,

Natural death comes with death of a few cells of 100 percent,  as it comes, operative goes off, senses switch off, but  balance physical cells of body are yet alive, body is a.metaphor as companion of operative system and senses, it leaves and death of other cells slowly comes, leaving  and leading to the physical death of body , it is termed as pret pret kar bhagi.

Many share this after death experience as it come back, as the vital organs have not ceased  and there is come back  but in short while.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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