# Something Interesting: Silent Brahmgianis



## Jaspreet08 (Jul 25, 2008)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I was listening to Giani Thakur Singh Ji's katha on Dhan Dhan Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and he said there about 250 or so Brahmgianis living in the United States right now (probably a lot more in India I would assume). He said they don't reveal themselves because they have no hukam to do so. They simply stay quiet and watch the drama unfold in its perfection.

Maybe we have seen these individuals at our local Gurdawaras, and simply not noticied anything different about them. Interesting, eh?


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## Sinister (Jul 25, 2008)

Jaspreet08 said:


> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
> Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
> 
> I was listening to Giani Thakur Singh Ji's katha on Dhan Dhan Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and he said there about 250 or so Brahmgianis living in the United States right now (probably a lot more in India I would assume). He said they don't reveal themselves because they have no hukam to do so. They simply stay quiet and watch the drama unfold in its perfection.
> ...


 

They are easily noticeable; they usually have a glowing suspended ring of light around their heads, creating an aura effect. :shifty:


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## Jaspreet08 (Jul 25, 2008)

lol...and there's some heavenly choirs playing


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## Sinister (Jul 25, 2008)

And I bet you they're the people who smell like Agarbatti Insense sticks...all the time!


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## amritpalsingh (Jul 26, 2008)

I have also heard and agree that there are Mahapurakh Brahm gyani who dont disclose about their gyan.


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## Sikh80 (Jul 26, 2008)

amritpalsingh said:


> I have also heard and agree that there are Mahapurakh Brahm gyani who dont disclose about their gyan.



*Why so?*


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## sunsingh (Jul 26, 2008)

some choose to do seva gupt as they don't want any attention. others must stand out to help the rest of us ignorant people.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jul 26, 2008)

Did GURU NANAK JI stay GUPT ?? how GUPT were the other Nine Gurus sahibaans..??
Just like its an equal crime to stay silent when wittnessing a ZULM.....or not do anything....its a crime to keep GYAN under cover.
Imho..I will follow the Course of action set in motion by my Beloved GURU JI....who when it was time to Leave this world ( human body has to die one day)...Guru Ji did the next best thing..Leave a COPY of His GYAN..in the form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee for humanity to BENEFIT forever...
Just imagine Guru Ji keeping this GYAN..GUPT and taking it along with HIM ??? where woudl we be..at the "Mercy" of all these Gupt..and not so gupt... Brahmgianis....sants/ saadhs/mahagyanis/mahapurashs ( when AKAL PURAKH is just "PURAKH" they are MAHAPURAKHS ??...lol....
Gyani jarnail Singh (not gupt at all :happy


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## Jaspreet08 (Jul 26, 2008)

I don't think all of them are gupt, they are there, but they would never flat out say that "I have Brahmgian."

I met a Giani and he was talking to us about Dasam Duar as if he was describing a tree. Like it was right in front of him. He said it was the brightest light you have ever seen, but it is cool. How could he not have Brahmgian?


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## singhbj (Jul 26, 2008)

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਕੈ ਮਾਲੁ ਖਜੀਨਾ ॥ 
हरि हरि जन कै मालु खजीना ॥ 
Har har jan kai māl kẖajīnā. 
The Lord's Name, Har, Har, is the treasure of wealth of His servants. 

ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਜਨ ਕਉ ਆਪਿ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਦੀਨਾ ॥ 
हरि धनु जन कउ आपि प्रभि दीना ॥ 
Har ḏẖan jan ka&shy;o āp parabẖ ḏīnā. 
The treasure of the Lord has been bestowed on His servants by God Himself. 

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਕੈ ਓਟ ਸਤਾਣੀ ॥ 
हरि हरि जन कै ओट सताणी ॥ 
Har har jan kai ot saṯāṇī. 
The Lord, Har, Har is the All-powerful Protection of His servants. 

ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪਿ ਜਨ ਅਵਰ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ॥ 
हरि प्रतापि जन अवर न जाणी ॥ 
Har parṯāp jan avar na jāṇī. 
His servants know no other than the Lord's Magnificence. 

ਓਤਿ ਪੋਤਿ ਜਨ ਹਰਿ ਰਸਿ ਰਾਤੇ ॥ 
ओति पोति जन हरि रसि राते ॥ 
Oṯ poṯ jan har ras rāṯė. 
Through and through, His servants are imbued with the Lord's Love. 

ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਨਾਮ ਰਸ ਮਾਤੇ ॥ 
सुंन समाधि नाम रस माते ॥ 
Sunn samāḏẖ nām ras māṯė. 
In deepest Samaadhi, they are intoxicated with the essence of the Naam. 

ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਜਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੈ ॥ 
आठ पहर जनु हरि हरि जपै ॥ 
Āṯẖ pahar jan har har japai. 
Twenty-four hours a day, His servants chant Har, Har. 

ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਭਗਤੁ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਨਹੀ ਛਪੈ ॥ 
हरि का भगतु प्रगट नही छपै ॥ 
Har kā bẖagaṯ pargat nahī cẖẖapai. 
The devotees of the Lord are known and respected; they do not hide in secrecy. 

ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਬਹੁ ਕਰੇ ॥ 
हरि की भगति मुकति बहु करे ॥ 
Har kī bẖagaṯ mukaṯ baho karė. 
Through devotion to the Lord, many have been liberated. 

ਨਾਨਕ ਜਨ ਸੰਗਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਤਰੇ ॥੭॥ 
नानक जन संगि केते तरे ॥७॥ 
Nānak jan sang kėṯė ṯarė. ||7|| 
O Nanak, along with His servants, many others are saved. ||7|| 

Source: http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0&Param=265

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh


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## Jaspreet08 (Jul 26, 2008)

Sikh80 said:


> *Why so?*


In the Katha Gianiji said it because they had no hukam to do so. 

Anyways, even if they revealed themselves, we would forget all our senses and start worshipping them. I don't think they would want that. The path is already laid out for us with Guruji, they are the ones who have practised and lived it. They probably want us to  do the same without any interference from them.


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## Sikh80 (Jul 26, 2008)

Ok. and Thanks!


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## spnadmin (Jul 26, 2008)

Jaspreet08 said:


> In the Katha Gianiji said it because they had no hukam to do so.
> 
> Anyways, even if they revealed themselves, we would forget all our senses and start worshipping them. I don't think they would want that. The path is already laid out for us with Guruji, they are the ones who have practised and lived it. They probably want us to  do the same without any interference from them.



Jaspreet ji,

Your answer intrigues me -- because the differences between a brahmgyani and a baba could be difficult to see. Fake babas claim to brahmgyanis -- and yes they soak up all the adoration of worshipers will give. Fake babas are very vocal - they have found the path to mukhti and it is through them. Would a brahmgyani claim to be a baba with his own special key to mukhti? There is some sense to being if not quiet then soft-spoken. So how do we make the distinction between self-promotion and speaking out regarding a higher truth?

There is a story about Giani Thakur Singh. One day walking down the street he was approached by someone who knew he was a very devout man. The stranger called out to Giani Thakur Singh -- Hey there, O brahmgyani,  please let me talk with you! And the story goes that Giani Thakur Singh became very angry at that and punched the guy, saying 'never call me a brahmgyani.'  This is a story on the Internet. It may be cooked up the way legends are. One foot in truth, one foot in exaggeration. But I think it is interesting. There are some interesting stories about Giani Thakur Singh.


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## sunsingh (Jul 26, 2008)

I think this depends on the individual approach. Some may remain gupt, but share the knowledge that they have acquired. Others may acknowledge their spiritual status in order to better guide people. Some may reveal/acknowledge this status only to those who are very close to them. 

I think this shabad by Bhagat Kabir ji shows that those who have attained a high avastha may acknowledge it, and this acknowledgement is not a sign of haumai when genuine. 

ANG 870
rwgu goNf bwxI kbIr jIau kI Gru 2
raag go(n)add baanee kabeer jeeo kee ghar 2
Raag Gond, The Word Of Kabeer Jee, Second House:

<> siqgur pRswid ]
ik oa(n)kaar sathigur prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

Bujw bWiD iBlw kir fwirE ]
bhujaa baa(n)dhh bhilaa kar ddaariou ||
They tied my arms, bundled me up, and threw me before an elephant.

hsqI k®oip mUMf mih mwirE ]
hasathee krop moo(n)dd mehi maariou ||
The elephant driver struck him on the head, and infuriated him.

hsiq Bwig kY cIsw mwrY ]
hasath bhaag kai cheesaa maarai ||
But the elephant ran away, trumpeting,

ieAw mUriq kY hau bilhwrY ]1]
eiaa moorath kai ho balihaarai ||1||
"I am a sacrifice to this image of the Lord."||1||

Awih myry Twkur qumrw joru ]
aahi maerae t(h)aakur thumaraa jor ||
O my Lord and Master, You are my strength.

kwjI bikbo hsqI qoru ]1] rhwau ]
kaajee bakibo hasathee thor ||1|| rehaao ||
The Qazi shouted at the driver to drive the elephant on. ||1||Pause||

ry mhwvq quJu fwrau kwit ]
rae mehaavath thujh ddaaro kaatt ||
He yelled out, ""O driver, I shall cut you into pieces.

iesih qurwvhu Gwlhu swit ]
eisehi thuraavahu ghaalahu saatt ||
Hit him, and drive him on!""

hsiq n qorY DrY iDAwnu ]
hasath n thorai dhharai dhhiaan ||
But the elephant did not move; instead, he began to meditate.

vw kY irdY bsY Bgvwnu ]2]
vaa kai ridhai basai bhagavaan ||2||
The Lord God abides within his mind. ||2||

ikAw AprwDu sMq hY kIn@w ]*
kiaa aparaadhh sa(n)th hai keenhaa ||
What sin has this Saint committed,*

bWiD pot kuMcr kau dIn@w ]
baa(n)dhh pott ku(n)char ko dheenhaa ||
that you have made him into a bundle and thrown him before the elephant?

kuMcru pot lY lY nmskwrY ]
ku(n)char pott lai lai namasakaarai ||
Lifting up the bundle, the elephant bows down before it.

bUJI nhI kwjI AMiDAwrY ]3]
boojhee nehee kaajee a(n)dhhiaarai ||3||
The Qazi could not understand it; he was blind. ||3||

qIin bwr pqIAw Bir lInw ]
theen baar patheeaa bhar leenaa ||
Three times, he tried to do it.

mn kToru AjhU n pqInw ]
man kat(h)or ajehoo n patheenaa ||
Even then, his hardened mind was not satisfied.

kih kbIr hmrw goibMdu ]
kehi kabeer hamaraa gobi(n)dh ||
Says Kabeer, such is my Lord and Master.

cauQy pd mih jn kI ijMdu ]4]1]4]
chouthhae padh mehi jan kee ji(n)dh ||4||1||4||
The soul of His humble servant dwells in the fourth state. ||4||1||4||


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## spnadmin (Jul 26, 2008)

sunsingh ji

A very helpful response. Thank you.


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## KulwantK (Jul 27, 2008)

Sat Nam, everyone!  I am trusting this find you all well and good!
There are as many paths to the Divine as there are hearts to follow.
It is interesting to see how different people choose to follow their paths.  We have chosen to stand out in a crowd, according to our Guru's instructions, so that we may be of service to those in need.
Each of us, no matter what our Spiritual path may be, is a creation of God and Guru, and each of us has something wonderful to contribute!
Wahe Guru!
Kulwant


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## Jaspreet08 (Jul 27, 2008)

aad0002 said:


> So how do we make the distinction between self-promotion and speaking out regarding a higher truth?


 
Yes. Good point. I keep coming back over and over to line from Anand Sahib.

khanni-ahu tikhee vaalahu nikee ayt maarag jaanaa.​The path they take is sharper than a Khandaa and finer than a hair.​


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jul 27, 2008)

also bhagat kabir ji has said...rahio sant mehn tol..saadh bahutereh ditthey...I went looking for SANT..all i found were hordes of "SAADHS". Now we can safely say Kabir Ji is a BRAHMGIANI as his GURBANI is in SGGS and in such copious amounts as to make him Premier Bhagat with Guru ji placing his Gurbani First among Bhagats....and also Sukhmani Sahib Guru Arjun Ji declares that..Brahmgiani ki Gatt brahmgiani Janneh..ONLY a "BRAHMGIANI" can recognise another "BRAHMGIANI". ??? Needle in a Haystack ?? THAT would be so EASY........more like "looking for a bedding mite in the Sahara  desert sands....with the sahara as large as the Nine Planets..and the Bed mite requiring a Electron Microscope just to be able to see it !!..Fakes..SAADHS (Sants/Brahmgianis interchangeable title).....as visible as the grains of sand...take as many TRUCKLOADS as you want..inexhaustible supply....

2. I havent heard Giani Thakur Singh Jis Katha. Will try and download from the website and listen.
But Personally speaking....I also have just for the FUN OF IT told some of my adult Students ( IN JEST but with serious face)....there are soem highly elevated souls among the residents of....XXXX....Brahmgianis....and then I get no end to personal visits day and night..phone calls..beseeching me to reveal who are these....so that they can be approached for "sewa" ( read ask favours..direct calls to Waheguru ??). NO amount of me saying NO I cannot reveal them..they are GUPT etc etc..had any effect....one or two even tried to bribe me i nto revealing these"Brahmgianis"....for as long as i can remember my POPULARITY was sky high....I felt like those "politicians" who DROP NAMES of big wigs in power....I know the PM..the CM Badal..etc types...and how "favour askers" then follow these like FLIES on honey....i beleive its the SAME here. Ordinary folks all want a SHORTCUT..and if someone can point them in the direction of a "BRAHMGIANI"..they are willing to do anything to get to him..and then ??????
I may sound like a cynic..but i have seen the world....not as much as everyone..but ENOUGH. THUS my ONE and ONLY "TAKE" (AASRA) is SGGS...no need for any others...no shortcuts...no gyanis barhm or not...
3. Just yesterday met another local "Brahmgiani" who i have known for about 18 years...at first was Guru Ka Kirtaniya...then slowly became "Gyani Ji..going on wards to Mahapurash...."  Weekend i met him at someones  Family Programme invited to do Sukhmani Sahib Paaths....he had graduated to ONE IN ALL..he was granthi/paathi/kirtaniya/...he was owner of the SGGS..He had the palki/rumallahs/even the Bhandeh/speakers/mike set up....a MOBILE GURDWARA...of course he took the Kirtan Bheta, he also tok the SGGS Bheta..He also had a fee for the bhandeh..as well as mike etc..and deg..plus a special FEE upfront for attendance...and best of all his "katha" was on mahapurash in SUKHMANI SAHIB..how they ABHOR MAYA..never touch it..no need for IT....and he went on and on about this Mahapurash and that Mahapurash....from what i heard his next project is "cater Guru Ka Langgar" and also print Invitation Cards so A-Z of any "programme" including video filming is also under him...still he is Brahmgiani....and he never touches MAYA (unless its put in a plastic bag and handed to his assistants)..He had his "katha" tapes..he had his own printed Gutkas...wah wah wahgoroo...just ask him..he "knows" how many Brahmgianis  are there in any location (no kidding - one of those he personally knows is Jathedar Iqbal Singh of Patna who was waiting for him on the orders of Guru gobind Singh ji no less when he visited India some years back...)..THUS I AM A CYNIC OUT AND OUT..I trust no one but SGGS.

Jaspreet Ji..can you provide  a link to Giani Thakur singh Jis Katha ?? Grateful.

Gyani jarnail Singh


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## spnadmin (Jul 27, 2008)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> also bhagat kabir ji has said...rahio sant mehn tol..saadh bahutereh ditthey...I went looking for SANT..all i found were hordes of "SAADHS". Now we can safely say Kabir Ji is a BRAHMGIANI as his GURBANI is in SGGS and in such copious amounts as to make him Premier Bhagat with Guru ji placing his Gurbani First among Bhagats....and also Sukhmani Sahib Guru Arjun Ji declares that..Brahmgiani ki Gatt brahmgiani Janneh..ONLY a "BRAHMGIANI" can recognise another "BRAHMGIANI". ??? Needle in a Haystack ?? THAT would be so EASY........more like "looking for a bedding mite in the Sahara  desert sands....with the sahara as large as the Nine Planets..and the Bed mite requiring a Electron Microscope just to be able to see it !!..Fakes..SAADHS (Sants/Brahmgianis interchangeable title).....as visible as the grains of sand...take as many TRUCKLOADS as you want..inexhaustible supply....
> 
> 2. I havent heard Giani Thakur Singh Jis Katha. Will try and download from the website and listen.
> But Personally speaking....I also have just for the FUN OF IT told some of my adult Students ( IN JEST but with serious face)....there are soem highly elevated souls among the residents of....XXXX....Brahmgianis....and then I get no end to personal visits day and night..phone calls..beseeching me to reveal who are these....so that they can be approached for "sewa" ( read ask favours..direct calls to Waheguru ??). NO amount of me saying NO I cannot reveal them..they are GUPT etc etc..had any effect....one or two even tried to bribe me i nto revealing these"Brahmgianis"....for as long as i can remember my POPULARITY was sky high....I felt like those "politicians" who DROP NAMES of big wigs in power....I know the PM..the CM Badal..etc types...and how "favour askers" then follow these like FLIES on honey....i beleive its the SAME here. Ordinary folks all want a SHORTCUT..and if someone can point them in the direction of a "BRAHMGIANI"..they are willing to do anything to get to him..and then ??????
> ...



 No, I don't think you sound like a cynic. Whether it is a shortcut they offer or the highway to heaven their devotees end up paying hefty tolls to travel on their road -- and did anyone check to see if the Bhramagyani's GPS is tuned into the right satellite?


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## spnadmin (Jul 27, 2008)

Logged off, and then found this right away on another site while browsing,


ਇਕ ਦੂ ਜੀਭੌ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਲਖ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਲਖ ਵੀਸ ॥ ਲਖੁ ਲਖੁ ਗੇੜਾ ਆਖੀਅਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ ॥ ਏਤੁ ਰਾਹਿ ਪਤਿ ਪਵੜੀਆ ਚੜੀਐ ਹੋਇ ਇਕੀਸ ॥ ॥ ਸੁਣਿ ਗਲਾ ਆਕਾਸ ਕੀ ਕੀਟਾ ਆਈ ਰੀਸ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਕੂੜੀ ਕੂੜੈ ਠੀਸ ॥੩੨॥ ੧  ੭ 

_ From one tongue there came thousands more, and millions came from them. Millions of tongues are turning and churning, repeating the One Lord's Name. On the Master's Path are many steps. Climb them, and come back Home. Even worms who hear of heavenly things are longing to come back Home. O Nanak! We get to come back Home only by the One God's Grace. But the liars all boast: "I did it myself!"_


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## Jaspreet08 (Jul 28, 2008)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> THUS my ONE and ONLY "TAKE" (AASRA) is SGGS...no need for any others...no shortcuts...no gyanis barhm or not...


Exactly.

Here is the link:
Gurbani Updesh (www.GurbaniUpdesh.org): 13-Giani Thakur Singh Ji (Patiala Wale)

This is the link for his katha on the SGGS done in San Fransisco.

Gurbani Updesh (www.GurbaniUpdesh.org): 00-Gurprasad (12 CD Set)

Just a personal note: I haven't heard too many Katha vachiks (is that right?), but I really enjoyed Giani Thakur Singh Ji's katha. He seems so down to earth while talking about these extraordinary Shabads.


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## spnadmin (Jul 28, 2008)

Sikhism has provided a working alternative to these arcane hierarchies. In meditation I frequently am looking through a large window that has been thrown open and a clear blue sky spreads as far as my mind can behold. 

Dhan, Dhan, Guru Nanak Maharj Dev ji who has liberated the world!  Pray that we will see!


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## sunsingh (Jul 28, 2008)

New age teachers post  a lot of interesting and sometimes rather questionable things.... I say stick to Guru ji as this is our path. If it's in our karam to gain sangat with a bhramgyani or a sant than it will happen.


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## pk70 (Jul 28, 2008)

( quote aad0002 Ji)
Dhan, Dhan, Guru Nanak Maharj Dev ji who has liberated the world! Pray that we will see!

*Thanks for speaking for me too,  Bhain ji*:happy:


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## Jaspreet08 (Jul 30, 2008)

Since we were discussing Silent Brahmgianis - I like to refer to Lao Tzu's famous line from Tao Te Ching:

"Those who know do not speak, those who speak do not know."


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## spnadmin (Jul 30, 2008)

I admit that I speak but I do not know.  So thanks for keeping me straight.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jul 30, 2008)

how would we know what Lao Tze "spoke" ?? didnt he write it down for us ??
imho the "speak" is referring to idle chatter..of empty drums making the most noise type..
Guru Nanak ji advises us..Kichh sunneayeh..kicch KAHEAH nanak..?? meaning listen and ASK ..intelligently !!!....but of course Gurbani tells us to have the utmost SEHAJ..in eating/sleeping/talking/asking....all must be controlled and moderated...BUT NOT TOTAL ABSTINENCE from anything - incluidng asking questions.
Guru nanak ji ANSWERED ALL QUESTIONS asked of HIM...Siddh Ghhosht is a good example of this approach.
Regards
Gyani jarnail Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jul 30, 2008)

Jaspreet08 said:


> Since we were discussing Silent Brahmgianis - I like to refer to Lao Tzu's famous line from Tao Te Ching:
> 
> "Those who know do not speak, *those who speak do not know*."


 
respectfully i submit that our Gurus sahibaans "spoke"....a whole lot..in fact they spoke 1429 pages of   a huge granth called Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee
 Guru Nank Ji travelled the entire known WORLD...not only SPEAKING....to the lowliest of the low..but also aginst TYRANNY of the HIGH and Mighty...berating them to their face for cruelty, zulm, unfairness,....aginst the "religious intolerance of the religious leaders..the Pandits, the Mullahs, the Brahmins, the Kazis...their "FARCE", their HYPOCRACY....their SUBTERFUGE.
I respectfully put that "SILENCE IS NOT GOLDEN"....in the face of uncertainty, religious intolerance, racist behaviour, unequal wealth distribution..etc etc etc that is happening even TODAY. IF GURU NANAK SPOKE OUT LOUDLY..what reason have his followers for "keeping silent" ?? The WEST certainly has  aLOT of these racists/modern day robbers like Sajjan thuggh..etc etc etc...Keeping SILENT means ....................acceptance..complicity..agreement..partners in CRIME.
Babbar attacked and ransaacked Emnabad..did Guru nanak ji keep SILENT ?? NO Babr vani is proof that Guru Ji faced up to the aggressor and told him so to his face. IT takes a BRAVE MAN to do that..and a Brahmgiani is definitely such a Man.....Guru nanak ji went to Babars PRISON....how many such "Silent Brahmgianis" are in PRISON ?? Genuine Brahmgianis like Baba MAHARAJ SINGH died in Prison in Singapore in 1920's...Bhai Randhir Singh Spent decades in Prisons of India...Baba Jarnail Singh Bhinderawalleh...didnt keep SILENT....so many examples can be given from Sikh History right from 1469...till TODAY...Sikhism is NOT a religion of SILENCE. We always SPEAK up for the Downtrodden..the underprivileged..the victims....
I am still grappling with this "silence is golden "types...i just dotn get it...
Maybe i am just "too outspoken"..or i may become accepted as a brahmgiani too...( if i just kept my big mouth SHUT inspit e of everything..BUT no chance of that....)
Regards..
Gyani jarnail Singh


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## spnadmin (Jul 30, 2008)

Gyani ji

You said something that no one can argue with *Sikhism is NOT a religion of SILENCE. We always SPEAK up for the Downtrodden. *And the examples you give are on point, without argument again.  But there is a not-so-subtle difference between your point of view and what Jaspreet is expressing. Forgive me. You are not the silence-is-golden type. You are also not going to talk me deaf, dumb and blind. 

Jaspreet is referring  to the type of "bhramgyani" who lectures and goes  on and on and on forever, with abstractions and complicated theoretical presentations, all designed to mystify the audience and make the audience think that they are onto something that is very deep. And that the average person is too ignorant to understand. Special exercises are required to get to that "deep thought."

Then there are those who are concise and use vivid examples that an ordinary person will understand quickly. So, no! Guru Nanak and Bhai Randhir Singh were not silent (as in mute), but rather they were quiet, as in patiently urging the right behavior and right thinking, prodding those around them with language that goes straight to the brain and the heart at the same time. 

I heard someone speak today about anger.  He held up a large blank card using only enough force to keep the card from falling to the ground. No forceful grabbing or gripping with his fingers. And then he said, This is how you hold onto people and things in your life. Lightly. Just enough to keep things going. Concise, vivid, simple, deep.

And you talk that way too. Forgive me again.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jul 30, 2008)

dear aad Jio...
i am listening......... to Japreet Ji.........you.......as well as Giani Thakur Singh Ji;s katha......maybe i will get that subtle difference...sooner than i think..Guru Ji Bless.
Gyani Jarnail Singh


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## Jaspreet08 (Jul 31, 2008)

Gianiji, my point with the Lao Tzu quote was simply referring to empty talk. As you said "empty drums making the most noise". Even in Anand Sahib, Maharaj ji says "Ik fireh ghanayray karahi galaa galle kinai na paaiaa". 

I'm wondering too why these Brahmgiani are silent. There is enough ignorance around in the world.. but that is the hukam they have. Maybe we have become too cynical to listen to them now. Don't know.

Jaspreet


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## spnadmin (Jul 31, 2008)

Jios,

I am not sure if this article is relevant to the thread, but am posting the link anyway. There is an interesting perspective in it on where silence fits in.

SILENCE


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jul 31, 2008)

aad0002 said:


> Jios,
> 
> I am not sure if this article is relevant to the thread, but am posting the link anyway. There is an interesting perspective in it on where silence fits in.
> 
> SILENCE


 
aadjio,
gurfateh.

I cant speak for others..BUT I found the article refreshingly educative...and inspiring.
Thanks a million. Am going to use it as basic resource for my next two or three Gurbani Vichaar lessons. Beautiful piece.

Gyani Jarnail Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jul 31, 2008)

Jaspreet08 said:


> Gianiji, my point with the Lao Tzu quote was simply referring to empty talk. As you said "empty drums making the most noise". Even in Anand Sahib, Maharaj ji says "Ik fireh ghanayray karahi galaa galle kinai na paaiaa".
> 
> I'm wondering too why these Brahmgiani are silent. There is enough ignorance around in the world.. but that is the hukam they have. Maybe we have become too cynical to listen to them now. Don't know.
> 
> Jaspreet


 
Jaspreet Jio,
Gurfateh.

No problem...If its His HUKM..we will soon KNOW... just take one step at a time...we are all learning. Let me finish listening to all the katha from Giani Ji and maybe i will be able to input soemthing different...stay in chardeekalla always...
Regards
Gyani Jarnail Singh


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## Jaspreet08 (Jul 31, 2008)

aad0002 said:


> SILENCE


Very nice article. The shabads that were cited were excellent.


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## lotus lion (Aug 1, 2008)

Hi,

Been reading this thread and there was an article that i read on Gurbani.org which talks about the modes in which operate.

THREE MODES OF MATERIAL NATURE (TREGUN MAYA...)

Please do read the above.

To summerise, these modes are:

Taamas, Raajas, and Saatava. Ignorance, Passion, and Goodness respectively.

A person operating in the mode of Taamas is someone who is spiritually ignorant. Qualities and Characterisics include idleness, ignorance, dullness, negligence to name but a few.

If a person is operating in the mode of Raajas, they are said to have unlimited desires and cling to objects and entities. All actions performed by a person in this mode are to obtain ever more material which only entrenches them further. Characteristics and traits of a person in this mode include lust, fierce competition, power struggle, influence, rat-race, status and so forth.

The last mode described Saatava is probably the best mode to be operating in if one had to choose. Characteristics include cultivating virtue and operating with a good heart.

The only problem with operating in the mode of Saatava is that one feels more advanced in the matters of spirituality which only hardens the ego.

The Guru Granth Sahib tells us that one has to transend these modes and not be under their influence.

This can only be done by understanding the Scriptures, Performing Right action, being in company of like minded people and so forth.

I personally feel, and must stress personally, that the 'silent Bramgyanis' Could most possibly be operating in the mode of Saatava which explains how they carry themselves.

A person who truely understands the nature of God, such as the Gurus and Bhagats, help everyone for the sake of it, simply clearly and consisely. They are at complete ease with their knowlege and share it openly with everyone. 

My stance on the issue,

Lotus


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## sunsingh (Aug 2, 2008)

Here is an excerpt from Sant Jagjit Singh ji's jeevan-sakhi which may offer some insight into this topic:

 There are two types of knowledge by name 'pra'- spiritual knowledge, and apra' - 
worldly knowledge. One type is where one learns about ways of the world, such as in 
behaviour, politics, etc. The first is Brahm knowledge where one comes to know of spirituality 
and gives up non-spirituality elements. When one acquires knowledge of Granths and spiritual 
knowledge, that person can benefit the whole universe. However, some Mahapursh are like a 
log afloat on a river. They themselves can float and reach from one side of a river bank to 
another, but can't help others stay afloat or get across. These Mahapurshs can only help a few. 
They are like sandalwood, which can impart its smell into specific plants but cannot make them 
into sandalwood in turn. Other Mahapursh are such,  

A Gurmukh who by giving a small drop of His naam can help millions.

These Mahapursh are considered very special. Many Mahapurshs are bhajnandi who 
do meditation, but are not vidiwans having no shastri knowledge. Many Mahapurshs are 
vidiwans but are not bhajnandi. When both practises come together as in the knowledge of 
seven Shastaras with spiritual knowledege, then such a Mahapursh can benefit many. Without 
knowledge one is like that person who watches dazed when he cannot understand the 
language of the persons around him, like a cow struggling in mud. That is the reason why one 
has to squire knowledge. To study then make others study by giving them this offering is the 
principle of a vidiwan. In the same manner the principle of a soldier is to protect one's country, 
for a family man it is to provide for his spouse, and for a humble servant it its to serve 
everyone regardless of others caste & creed. Only a knowledgeable Mahapursh can explain 
how to respect one's parents, country, and religion. He can give knowledge about Gurmat and 
thus steer the masses towards good.


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## Jaspreet08 (Sep 17, 2008)

To those of you who remember this post, some more clarification by Giani Thakur Singh Ji:

At another point in the katha, Gianiji says that the Brahmgianis are now gupt or silent now because people don't believe what they say. People now either don't follow their teachings or outright attack them for their teachings.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 20, 2008)

jaspreet ji says..
At another point in the katha, Gianiji says that the Brahmgianis are now gupt or silent now because people don't believe what they say. People now either don't follow their teachings or outright attack them for their teachings.  
...................

If we read Gurbani in SGGS..the GURUS faced the exact same treatment. Guru nanak Ji was called BHOOTNA..Betala...mad man...Ghost..and all kinds of unpleasnat names...
The Gurus were also attacked..jailed..tortured.....faced so much opposition to their teachings...
YET they didnt keep quiet..didnt go gupt..didnt become silent sadhus...they FOUGHT BACK...they WROTE the REVOLUTIONARY GURBANI....which we now have as an Example to follow in the SGGS...Gagan Dama Bajio....Time to FIGHT !!!
The GURUS WON..because their teachings are RIGHT..what they taught is RIGHT..what they did is RIGHT.
TRUTH has nothing to FEAR..or HIDE..or keep SILENT..ever..not then (1469-1708) not NOW..and Not in the Future...

SACH kadeh PURANa nahihn...patteh nahin....never Fades..never tears..frays..or gets out of date..
SACH...SATNAM  carries a NO EXPIRY DATE....and it has AKal Purakh as its Backer...have no fear..SGGS is HERE...

Gyani Js


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## Jaspreet08 (Sep 20, 2008)

I'm suspecting that you're a Brahmgiani of the vocal type, Gianiji.  

Agree with you. Truth needs to be told regardless of opposition.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 22, 2008)

ONLY "HE" knows exactly what I am...suffice to admit that I am "trying" to be a SIKH.
Now a days every one so readily claims that he/she is a "SIKH"....some born sikh...some came into sikh..some had sikh forced upon them...
Here is Guru ARJUN Jis take on a "SIKH". Once a memeber of Guru Arjun Jis snagat wnated to get his daughter married but he had not much money.....so he came to Guru Ji and asked for funds. His suggestion was that Guru Ji give him a paisa for each SIKH in the snagat....Guru ji kept silent. Few days later he asked again...still silence...Third day when he asked again..Guru Ji gave him 4 and 1/2 paisas...He was SHOCKED. Is this a joke ? Guru Ji replied..I am giivng you a Paisa for EACH SIKH...just as you requested....BUT...BUT...look around you Guur Ji..there are THOUSANDS of "SIKHS"...how come ??? I dont understand...
Guur Ji replied.... Guru Nanak Ji, Guru Angad Ji, Guru Amardass Ji and Guru Ramdass Ji are the 4 Complete SIKHS..while I myself are just HALF a SIKH.....so there you have it 4 1/2 paisas as you requested...
SO IF Guru Ji is just half a sikh..how can i be  a "Brahmgiani"  silent or vocal ?? No way....

BUT I do tell the TRUTH ( as I see it) and have made many enemies !! ( the  dagger stares i get in the local Gurdwaras and "sweet" mails on the Internet are proof of this Love for TRUTH that most "Sikhs" have !!  I have been very vocal about TRUTH For  a long time....and will be for a longer time yet..until..Ghalleh ayeh nanaka Saddeh uth jayeh....

Regards...
Gyani JS


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## Jaspreet08 (Sep 22, 2008)

Ji...bilkul. Agree with you about being a Sikh. People claiming with themselves as Singhs/Singhinias and Khalsas is outrageous to me. To be even a Sikh is a tremendous feat. May Waheguru bless us with such karma.


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## navj0t (Nov 1, 2008)

Jaspreet08 said:


> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
> Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
> 
> I was listening to Giani Thakur Singh Ji's katha on Dhan Dhan Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and he said there about 250 or so Brahmgianis living in the United States right now (probably a lot more in India I would assume). He said they don't reveal themselves because they have no hukam to do so. They simply stay quiet and watch the drama unfold in its perfection.
> ...


 
1. how does he know?
2. doesnt it say in sukhmani that a brahmgiani cant remain hidden?


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## navj0t (Nov 1, 2008)

Jaspreet08 said:


> Gianiji, my point with the Lao Tzu quote was simply referring to empty talk. As you said "empty drums making the most noise". Even in Anand Sahib, Maharaj ji says "Ik fireh ghanayray karahi galaa galle kinai na paaiaa".
> 
> I'm wondering too why these Brahmgiani are silent. There is enough ignorance around in the world.. but that is the hukam they have. Maybe we have become too cynical to listen to them now. Don't know.
> 
> Jaspreet


 
arent brahmgiani nirankar Itself?  And doesnt Nirankar remain silent?  no?


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## Jaspreet08 (Dec 1, 2008)

navj0t said:


> 1. how does he know?
> 2. doesnt it say in sukhmani that a brahmgiani cant remain hidden?


 
Sorry for the late reply, navj0t.
1. I'm not sure exactly how Gianiji knows, but he tells about visiting and talking with Brahmgianis in his Katha. Someone must have told him.
2. Could you kindly give the Shabad line from Sukhmani Sahib that you are talking about?


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## Jaspreet08 (Dec 1, 2008)

navj0t said:


> arent brahmgiani nirankar Itself? And doesnt Nirankar remain silent? no?


 Yes, they are Nirankar. Nirankar is forever in meditation if that is what you mean. Not silent. In Jaap Sahib, Maharaj ji says in pauree 194 : 
"
Anaathae / Pr;amaathae / Ajonee / Amonee"
There is no Master above You, You are the Destroyer, free from birth, and You​do not observe the silence – You are not like silent saints (Are active).


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