# Please Help



## gurtej khubbar (Oct 31, 2013)

Sat Sri Akal

Can anyone help me Understand the below verses or the full ang.

kil prvwxu kqyb kurwxu ] (903-4, rwmklI, mÚ 1)
kal parvaan katayb kuraan.
In Kali Yuga, the Koran and the Bible have become famous.

poQI pMifq rhy purwx ] (903-4, rwmklI, mÚ 1)
pothee pandit rahay puraan.
The Pandit's scriptures and the Puraanas are not respected.

Does this mean that we as Sikhs believe in different yugas and consider vedas Better than Koran or bible?

It would be great to know what context this was written in...

Please thanks a lot.


----------



## Ishna (Oct 31, 2013)

Gurtej Ji

Please use www.srigranth.com for copy/pasting Gurbani as what you've pasted doesn't display properly on everybody's screen.

You also need to include full shabad and the ang/panna/page number whenever you post Gurbani. I will do it for you here but please remember to do it in future. Thank you. 

This passage is on Ang 903 http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0&fb=0&Param=903 however the Ashtapadia starts on Ang 902 http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=902&g=1&h=0&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0&fb=0 


ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਅਸਟਪਦੀਆ

Rāmkalī mėhlā 1 asatpaḏī▫ā 

Raamkalee, First Mehl, Ashtapadees: 


ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

Ik▫oaŉkār saṯgur parsāḏ. 

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: 


ਸੋਈ ਚੰਦੁ ਚੜਹਿ ਸੇ ਤਾਰੇ ਸੋਈ ਦਿਨੀਅਰੁ ਤਪਤ ਰਹੈ ॥

So▫ī cẖanḏ cẖaṛėh se ṯāre so▫ī ḏinī▫ar ṯapaṯ rahai. 

The same moon rises, and the same stars; the same sun shines in the sky. 


ਸਾ ਧਰਤੀ ਸੋ ਪਉਣੁ ਝੁਲਾਰੇ ਜੁਗ ਜੀਅ ਖੇਲੇ ਥਾਵ ਕੈਸੇ ॥੧॥

Sā ḏẖarṯī so pa▫uṇ jẖulāre jug jī▫a kẖele thāv kaise. ||1|| 

The earth is the same, and the same wind blows. The age in which we dwell affects living beings, but not these places. ||1|| 


ਜੀਵਨ ਤਲਬ ਨਿਵਾਰਿ ॥

Jīvan ṯalab nivār. 

Give up your attachment to life. 


ਹੋਵੈ ਪਰਵਾਣਾ ਕਰਹਿ ਧਿਙਾਣਾ ਕਲਿ ਲਖਣ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Hovai parvāṇā karahi ḏẖińāṇā kal lakẖaṇ vīcẖār. ||1|| rahā▫o. 

Those who act like tyrants are accepted and approved - recognize that this is the sign of the Dark Age of Kali Yuga. ||1||Pause|| 


ਕਿਤੈ ਦੇਸਿ ਨ ਆਇਆ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਤੀਰਥ ਪਾਸਿ ਨ ਬੈਠਾ ॥

Kiṯai ḏes na ā▫i▫ā suṇī▫ai ṯirath pās na baiṯẖā. 

Kali Yuga has not been heard to have come to any country, or to be sitting at any sacred shrine. 


ਦਾਤਾ ਦਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਤਹ ਨਾਹੀ ਮਹਲ ਉਸਾਰਿ ਨ ਬੈਠਾ ॥੨॥

Ḏāṯā ḏān kare ṯah nāhī mahal usār na baiṯẖā. ||2|| 

It is not where the generous person gives to charities, nor seated in the mansion he has built. ||2|| 


ਜੇ ਕੋ ਸਤੁ ਕਰੇ ਸੋ ਛੀਜੈ ਤਪ ਘਰਿ ਤਪੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥

Je ko saṯ kare so cẖẖījai ṯap gẖar ṯap na ho▫ī. 

If someone practices Truth, he is frustrated; prosperity does not come to the home of the sincere. 


ਜੇ ਕੋ ਨਾਉ ਲਏ ਬਦਨਾਵੀ ਕਲਿ ਕੇ ਲਖਣ ਏਈ ॥੩॥

Je ko nā▫o la▫e baḏnāvī kal ke lakẖaṇ e▫ī. ||3|| 

If someone chants the Lord's Name, he is scorned. These are the signs of Kali Yuga. ||3|| 


ਜਿਸੁ ਸਿਕਦਾਰੀ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਖੁਆਰੀ ਚਾਕਰ ਕੇਹੇ ਡਰਣਾ ॥

Jis sikḏārī ṯisėh kẖu▫ārī cẖākar kehe darṇā. 

Whoever is in charge, is humiliated. Why should the servant be afraid, 


ਜਾ ਸਿਕਦਾਰੈ ਪਵੈ ਜੰਜੀਰੀ ਤਾ ਚਾਕਰ ਹਥਹੁ ਮਰਣਾ ॥੪॥

Jā sikḏārai pavai janjīrī ṯā cẖākar hathahu marṇā. ||4|| 

when the master is put in chains? He dies at the hands of his servant. ||4|| 


ਆਖੁ ਗੁਣਾ ਕਲਿ ਆਈਐ ॥

Ākẖ guṇā kal ā▫ī▫ai. 

Chant the Praises of the Lord; Kali Yuga has come. 


ਤਿਹੁ ਜੁਗ ਕੇਰਾ ਰਹਿਆ ਤਪਾਵਸੁ ਜੇ ਗੁਣ ਦੇਹਿ ਤ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Ŧihu jug kerā rahi▫ā ṯapāvas je guṇ ḏėh ṯa pā▫ī▫ai. ||1|| rahā▫o. 

The justice of the previous three ages is gone. One obtains virtue, only if the Lord bestows it. ||1||Pause|| 


ਕਲਿ ਕਲਵਾਲੀ ਸਰਾ ਨਿਬੇੜੀ ਕਾਜੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਹੋਆ ॥

Kal kalvālī sarā nibeṛī kājī krisanā ho▫ā. 

In this turbulent age of Kali Yuga, Muslim law decides the cases, and the blue-robed Qazi is the judge. 


ਬਾਣੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬੇਦੁ ਅਥਰਬਣੁ ਕਰਣੀ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਲਹਿਆ ॥੫॥

Baṇī barahmā beḏ atharbaṇ karṇī kīraṯ lahi▫ā. ||5|| 

The Guru's Bani has taken the place of Brahma's Veda, and the singing of the Lord's Praises are good deeds. ||5|| 


ਪਤਿ ਵਿਣੁ ਪੂਜਾ ਸਤ ਵਿਣੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਜਤ ਵਿਣੁ ਕਾਹੇ ਜਨੇਊ ॥

Paṯ viṇ pūjā saṯ viṇ sanjam jaṯ viṇ kāhe jane▫ū. 

Worship without faith; self-discipline without truthfulness; the ritual of the sacred thread without chastity - what good are these? 


ਨਾਵਹੁ ਧੋਵਹੁ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਚੜਾਵਹੁ ਸੁਚ ਵਿਣੁ ਸੋਚ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੬॥

Nāvhu ḏẖovahu ṯilak cẖaṛāvahu sucẖ viṇ socẖ na ho▫ī. ||6|| 

You may bathe and wash, and apply a ritualistic tilak mark to your forehead, but without inner purity, there is no understanding. ||6|| 


*ਕਲਿ **ਪਰਵਾਣੁ **ਕਤੇਬ **ਕੁਰਾਣੁ **॥*

*Kal parvāṇ kaṯeb kurāṇ. *

*In Kali Yuga, the Koran and the Bible have become famous. *


*ਪੋਥੀ **ਪੰਡਿਤ **ਰਹੇ **ਪੁਰਾਣ **॥*

*Pothī pandiṯ rahe purāṇ. *

*The Pandit's scriptures and the Puraanas are not respected. *


ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਉ ਭਇਆ ਰਹਮਾਣੁ ॥

Nānak nā▫o bẖa▫i▫ā rėhmāṇ. 

O Nanak, the Lord's Name now is Rehmaan, the Merciful. 


ਕਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਤੂ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣੁ ॥੭॥

Kar karṯā ṯū eko jāṇ. ||7|| 

Know that there is only One Creator of the creation. ||7|| 


ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਏਦੂ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਰਮੁ ਨਹੀ ॥

Nānak nām milai vadi▫ā▫ī eḏū upar karam nahī. 

Nanak has obtained the glorious greatness of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. There is no action higher than this. 


ਜੇ ਘਰਿ ਹੋਦੈ ਮੰਗਣਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਫਿਰਿ ਓਲਾਮਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਹੀ ॥੮॥੧॥

Je gẖar hoḏai mangaṇ jā▫ī▫ai fir olāmā milai ṯahī. ||8||1|| 

If someone goes out to beg for what is already in his own home, then he should be chastised. ||8||1|| 


Great question as I've been reading up on this and the concept of Yugs in Sikhi the last few days myself...


----------



## aristotle (Nov 1, 2013)

> ਜੀਵਨ ਤਲਬ ਨਿਵਾਰਿ ॥
> Shed thou thy desire to remain alive.
> 
> ਹੋਵੈ ਪਰਵਾਣਾ ਕਰਹਿ ਧਿਙਾਣਾ ਕਲਿ ਲਖਣ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
> He who plays the tyrant is approved. Deem this to be the surest sign of the Darkage. Pause.



This Shabad is addressed to the Brahmin (Pandit), the de-facto religious and social head of the then Indian society and the inconsiderate Emperors, telling him to refrain from selfish pursuits. When the only goal of the head of the society is to live a lavish and exorbitant life, it weakens the society and expose the meek and poor to the tyrants.



> ਜੇ ਕੋ ਸਤੁ ਕਰੇ ਸੋ ਛੀਜੈ ਤਪ ਘਰਿ ਤਪੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥
> If anyone practises truth, he is frustrated and prosperity visits not the home of a penitent.
> 
> ਜੇ ਕੋ ਨਾਉ ਲਏ ਬਦਨਾਵੀ ਕਲਿ ਕੇ ਲਖਣ ਏਈ ॥੩॥
> ...



Guru Sahib also goes on to state that the Kali Yuga or any other Yuga for that matter do not exist on a specific place at a specific time, as is the belief of Sanatan Dharma, but it all depends on the the events that transpire at that particular point of time which liken it to the so-called Kali Yuga. When the deserving don't get the respect they deserve, when the food doesn't reach the belly of the hungry, and those who work day in and day out don't get a chance at prosperity (which their rulers enjoy even without working a dime), these are the characters of the Dark Age (which can take place at any place and at any time, the time-division of Yugas does not apply in this).



> ਜਿਸੁ ਸਿਕਦਾਰੀ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਖੁਆਰੀ ਚਾਕਰ ਕੇਹੇ ਡਰਣਾ ॥
> Whosoever possesses cheiftainship, he suffers humiliation. What has the servant to fear?
> 
> ਜਾ ਸਿਕਦਾਰੈ ਪਵੈ ਜੰਜੀਰੀ ਤਾ ਚਾਕਰ ਹਥਹੁ ਮਰਣਾ ॥੪॥
> When the chief is chained, then he dies at the hands of the servant.



When the tyrants strike, it is the emperors who suffers the most, the commoners remains as servile to the throne as always, whosoever the new ruler may be, their condition doesn't change. The same chieftains who served the Emperor, are directed by the invader to slay or imprison him. (And since O corrupt Emperor, you are to face such a humiliation at the hand of your own people, be fearful and discharge your duties as they are meant to be; shun selfish goals).



> ਆਖੁ ਗੁਣਾ ਕਲਿ ਆਈਐ ॥
> Utter thou the Lord's praise. The Kaliage is come.
> 
> ਤਿਹੁ ਜੁਗ ਕੇਰਾ ਰਹਿਆ ਤਪਾਵਸੁ ਜੇ ਗੁਣ ਦੇਹਿ ਤ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
> The Justice of the three ages has, now, ceased to be administered. If the Lord blesses man with virtues, then alone, he obtains salvation. Pause.



So, utter your Lord's praise O Pandit! Beacuse according to your own Vedantic scriptures, Lord's praise alone is of virtue in the Kali Yuga. The web of miracles and rituals you had spun in the name of the previous three Yugas is now long gone, the only virtues are those which can be possessed in your characters and dealings, do not run away from them now.



> ਕਲਿ ਕਲਵਾਲੀ ਸਰਾ ਨਿਬੇੜੀ ਕਾਜੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਹੋਆ ॥
> In the unpeaceful Kaliage Muslim Law decides the cases and the blue-robed Qazi, is the Judge.
> 
> ਬਾਣੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬੇਦੁ ਅਥਰਬਣੁ ਕਰਣੀ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਲਹਿਆ ॥੫॥
> ...



The Qazi, the Muslim lawmaker, (who is even more corrupt) has now now been made judge of the land, the battered people have turned to the easy-looking ways of black magic, chants and incantations of the Atharva Veda(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atharvaveda), chaos has ensued; this is the Kali Yuga that the Brahmin talked about (and as the Brahmin did nothing to enlighten the society, crisis is staring India in its face.)
Remember, the ritual bathing and religious obligations (which have failed to be of any merit the society, which has been ravaged by the acts of tyrants) do not yield piety, it is only the Lord's name which can be of any value (and even this religious misunderstanding is the Kali Yuga)



> ਕਲਿ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਕਤੇਬ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
> In the kalage, Quran has become the approved book.
> 
> ਪੋਥੀ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਰਹੇ ਪੁਰਾਣ ॥
> ...



The Dharmic names of God and Vedantic scriptures have now given way to the Abrahamic Books and the Islamic names of the Lord. (In reality, the forceful subjugation of other religions too, is akin to Kali Yuga, the Age of Darkness). Remember, it is the same Creator under whose command everything comes to pass.



> ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਏਦੂ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਰਮੁ ਨਹੀ ॥
> Nanak seeks the greatness of the Lord's Name. For no other religious deed is superior to it.
> 
> ਜੇ ਘਰਿ ਹੋਦੈ ਮੰਗਣਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਫਿਰਿ ਓਲਾਮਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਹੀ ॥੮॥੧॥
> If man goes elsewhere to ask for what he has at his home, he meets with reproach then.



The Lord's name is great, and it resides in the hearts of the believer (the Brahmin used to misguide the common-folk in pursuit of pilgrimages and rituals), it is in your heart, the home of your consciousness that God is to be found (so do not fall into the trap of the priests and snake-oil salesmen now, lest they lead you to another travesty), there is no other virtue except righteous living.


----------



## angrisha (Nov 1, 2013)

aristotle said:


> Guru Sahib also goes on to state that the* Kali Yuga or any other Yuga for that matter do not exist on a specific place at a specific time, *as is the belief of Sanatan Dharma, but it all depends on the the events that transpire at that particular point of time which liken it to the so-called Kali Yuga*.* When the deserving don't get the respect they deserve, when the food doesn't reach the belly of the hungry, and those who work day in and day out don't get a chance at prosperity (which their rulers enjoy even without working a dime), these are the characters of the Dark Age (which can take place at any place and at any time, the time-division of Yugas does not apply in this).
> .



I am really glad that you pointed this out, I think its a common misconception to equate the yuga's with an specific date in time (chronologically). When rather its your relationship with Sat Guru that can determine which Yuga your in. I heard in Katha years ago explained really well, that those who at any point in history have remained attach to Sat Guru they were in Sat Yuga then and now.... conversely those who have 'forgotten' Sat Guru it was Kali yuga for them then, very much as it is now.


----------



## Luckysingh (Nov 1, 2013)

Classic mistake or excuse for all the wrong and problems in the world is to say ''It is kalyug, it is expected...''

This is what the shabad is pointing at and that the time scales of kalyug don't matter. it is not about the times, it is all about the actions and deeds.

Was everyone so worthy and righteous in satyug ??
Do we really know ?

But it's a nice excuse to assume. Maybe all their actions and deeds in satyug were much gurmat and righteous, but that is not determined by the age you live in is it ?


----------

