# Amrit And Maryada



## manbir (Sep 5, 2005)

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji KI Fateh

I wish to bring my friends' attention to ritualistic way to life that we Sikhs have developed which is directly against the preaching of our Gurus. We have created so many Maryadas to meet our needs and and as per our own understanding and given it a label that it has been blessed by our gurus. We call ourselves Amritdharis if we go through some ritual created by us. By going though this ritual we declare ourselves as superior human beings. We least care to search our soul to findout the Amrit inside us. Isn't it a fact that the Amrit our Guru wants us to take is different from the one in maryada !! Isn't it a fact that the Amritdhari of our Maryadas is a different person from the one in Gurbani ! 
Lets think with clear mind and open heart. Let only Gurubani be our guide. Everything else is nothing but aadambar.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 14, 2005)

The Khande batte De Pahul is not a Man made maryada....it was introduced by GURU GOBIND SINGH JI at Vasakhi 1699.

1. This Pahul ceremony is so IMPORTANT that even the GURU is not exempted. GURU GOBIND RAI JI took this Pahul and became GURU GOBIND SINGH JI....and was called Waho Waho gobind Singh Aapeh GUR...aapeh GUR-CHELA.

2. WHAT a person "thinks" has got nothing to do with maryada/pahul/gurbani etc.
IF we blame the Pahul Ceremony for some "amrtidharees" thinking they are better than others... What is there to stop a "Gurbani reading person" from thinking he is way better than you or me ?? SO shall we all then STOP reading GURBANI ??

3. This "propoganda" AGAINST the Khande Batte De pahul/Amrtidharees is spread by the people who DONT WANT the restrictions of...KESH/KANGHA/KIRPAAN/KACHERRA/KARRA. So they calim they are Sikhs of the NINE GURUS, and want to pay attention to GURBANI only. This is a FALSE ASSUMPTION becasue GURBANI from GURU NANAK JI sahib onwards contains ample evidence of the FIVE K's as IMPORTANT fro Gurmatt and Sikhee.

Guur nanak ji decared..Je to prem khelan ka chao sir dhar tali gali mere aou... and GURU GOBIND SINGH JI at vasakhi 1699 DEMONSTRATED just THAT by asking for FIVE HEADS on a Platter. The TRUTH is that ALL TEN GURUS are the SAME JYOT....no one can be a Sikh of Guru nanak Ji IF he DISOWNS GURU GOBIND SINGH JI. That would be like saying .."I am my grandfathers grandson..BUT not MY Father's SON "

Jarnail Singh


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 15, 2005)

Satsriakal to all!

Guru Gobind Singh Ji wrote many wonderful Baanees. Did He also write about Vasakhi 1699 and the ceremony of Panj Pyaras and receiving Amrit from them?

I would appreciate an authentic reference from the historians.


Balbir Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 16, 2005)

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji KI fateh.

Veer Balbir Singh raises an intriguing question ...

Guru nanak Ji Sahib also wrote a lot of Wonderful Banees....but I havent come across any Banee by Guru NanaK ji Sahib where Guru Ji writes about passing His Gurgadhee to Guru Angad Ji...and simialrly there is NO Gurbani by Guru Angad JI about Guru Amardass Ji, or Gurbani by Guur Amardass ji about Guur ramdass ji.  Bhatt Swaiyahs do write about this gurgadhee passing but only up to Guur Arjun Ji.

Not a single line of Gurbani exists about Gurgadhee given to Guur harGobind Ji, Guru Har rai Ji, Guru harKrishan Ji or Guru Teg bahadur Ji and Guru Gobind rai Ji ( later Guru Gobind Singh ji)

How does the entire Sikh kaum refer to Guru GOBIND SINGH JI when He has not written any banee about changing His name from Gobind RAI to SINGH ??

I think the answer is that GURBANI is ILAHI DHUR KI BANEE..about AKAL PURAKH and not about mundane things like who became Guru when and why ?? Therefore it is futile looking for such answers in GURBANI.

The NAMDHAREES raise this type of OBJECTIONS to the passing of Gurgadhee to GURU GRANTH JI and GURU KHALSA PANTH...and ask for "references from GURBANI " ?? That is mainly becasue they want to establish their won line of dehdharee gurus...and DENY the Gurgadhee of Guur granth Ji.

Jarnail Singh


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## drkhalsa (Sep 16, 2005)

Dear Gyani ji

Forgive me if am wrong but I think Balbir Singh ji is talking about Dasam Guru di Bani and not Guru Granth Sahib


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## manbir (Sep 17, 2005)

Balbir Singh said:
			
		

> Satsriakal to all!
> 
> Guru Gobind Singh Ji wrote many wonderful Baanees. Did He also write about Vasakhi 1699 and the ceremony of Panj Pyaras and receiving Amrit from them?
> 
> ...


 
Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

Balbir Singh Ji has raised a very important and interesting point. We should findout the origin of ceremony of Panj Pyaras and the 5 Kakars. 

Isn't it a fact that origin of Keshas as a form of dress code preeceds Vasakhi of 1699 ?


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## vijaydeep Singh (Sep 19, 2005)

Gurfateh

Das is intersted to know that where in Guru Granth Sahib Ji we are told to have 5Ks. Or say Turban.

Well Sabat Surat Dastar Sira is something being told to Muslims Holymen that unbroken concentration should be speacl kind of turban on his head.

It is rather apparnt ly anti to his wearing turban.

likewise we have Khob Teri Pagri told sonewhere else in Adi Guru Granth sahib ji and Dwarka Nagri ben also told there.

There perhaps Akal is been told in all and Dwarak of Akal is universe.

And Pagri is glory.

Khintha Kal Kuari Kaya Juagt Dandan Parteet of Guru Granth Sahib ji tell that inside of making Bhes or Attire  we need to concentrate more on spritual persuits.

Even similar things are writtan in Dasham Granth even in Akal Ustat it is writtan that by 'mere' keeping hairs we may not get Akal.

So How do we get to know about Amrit Sanskar and are as per Guru Granth Sahib Ji are 5ks also rituals.

In fact it is trai Mudra of Kachchh Kes Kirpan which was perhaps even before the world Khalsa.

By the way word Khalsi or libration perhaps is used in Guru Granth Sahib Ji

And we do not have term Wahi Guru Ji Ki Fateh
in  there.

Due to so much saying on relying only on Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji only like we have Arya Samjis having Vedas only we see many of our young man cutting hairs and saying that holy Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not approve it.

Coming back to Turban,Khalsa,5ks and similar matters.

Vars of Bhai Gurdas 1st talk obout perhaps 6th Guru wearing Turban and Rattan singh Bhangu also talk of Tenth master removing caps and let turban replace it(Even at misl period Sukh Singh Miran Kotiya and Charhat Singh sukker chakiya  wore Iron Helmet as battle gear) so Turban was a mark as transiton from cap wearing Saints(we have Seli(woven ) Topi(Cap) of one of our Guru in one of the Gurudwara.

As Khalsa was made after the Guru Granth Sahib Ji so needless to say that if we say as per logical anti miralce missioanier point of view then Guru Granth Sahib Ji can not tell future or Miracle(al though we have instance where both forecate and miralces are writtan in guru Granth sahib ji but are attributeed to Akal).

To Be continued..


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## vijaydeep Singh (Sep 19, 2005)

Gurfateh

Then it is simple that when we were to be made rulers we were given a dress code and new name.

And power to fight for deprived.

Raj Karega Khalsa is from Karni Nammah which is by First master but not in Guru Granth sahib Ji.

Kes were been told to be kept to Bhai Mardana but Das is not aware of source but First Master did keep sword which was found from Oriisa and kept at Takhat Patna Sahib.

Amrit or Pahul is mentioed in Mangal Prakash and Bijai Mukt Sakhi 10 both are called Sau Sakhis.

Bhai Gurdas Second ie Kesar Singh s/0 Shaheed Baba Gurbax Singh Nihung of Damdami Taksal also talks about taking Pahul of Khanda or nector of sabre.

Regarding trerm Khalsa it is in Sarbloh Granth.

Once only it is found in the last part of Dasham Granth where Tenth Guru Talks of Khalsa's seeing him in Lakhi Forest like Bufflos see Grazeer.

It is similar to Jesus being shepheard of followers.

Then term Khalsa is used to describe Jagat Jot Jape Nis Basur.

Rembers the alive light(Akal) day and night.

There are Asphotak Kavyas ie poems which were loose or scattered and hap hazerdly perhaps compiled in last of Dasham Granth Sahib.

Last of it is Sikhi Rahit in Farsi.

It tells of Five Ks and 3hs to be forbiddan ie Huqqa,Hazamat and Halal.
And then applying Henna is like blackening of face.

If we go by Guru Granth sahib Ji then our making mere Sikhi form with 5ks is mere ritual or Admaber so is Amrit Sanskar.

That is OK for house holder who is concerned to himself and his family or say fellow Satsangis(Congragaton) and in fact Gurmat by Tenth master was to elminate the division by forms of Yogis,hindus or Muslims.

But that could have been obtained if all of them have same form which conceal racial or regiaonl variaton.

So when ruler and aggressive class who was ploticaly arising to change the system of opppression by world was to be made so term Purely a worshipper of God ie Khalsa was used with 5ks and Turban marking the figthing ruler.

In fact Das is yet tom see that where in Guru Granth sahib Ji taking Vak or serman of the day or other occaision is writtan or where does is it is writtan for Santookh or Praksah or chaur or PariKarma or Kirpan Bheta or even Matha Tekna to Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

So at the end Guru Granth Sahib Ji say that to reach the God we ned to have devotion and with cleverness of logic which itslef is illogical we can not have blessing of Guru.

That makes Gurmat unique as only Logic is Vedanta and Gurmat becomes higher to Vedant by Devotion of the God which is similarly described by Vedanta.

Gurmat is not Vedanta only due to devotion.

And where we have devotion we have no questons.

so like in military descipline we are told to carry out task withour questioning to bulit our leadership so leadeaders or Sirdars are made by uniform of self decipline which is 5ks and like in military it is here also does not ask for logic but motivation and spirit to follow.

And Baptism is nothing but enlistment.


Say we have instance of Rath or chariot in Guru Granth Sahib Ji that does not undermines the importance of Car at present so Khalsa was advance state of Sikhs at the times Gurus before Tenth Master.Wars of Sixth master were for self defence but Tenth Master did caried out advance and aggresive warfare like the War of Naduan or Seding Prince(SahibZada) to attack Hoshiyarpur.

There is hardly the name of Tenth Guru in Guru Granth Sahib ji so should we deem that we had no Tenth Guru? Off course not.

All Ten Gurus were the medium of guidance to hummanitiy by Akal in the form of word or Sabd.

And as per Bani of Bahi Gurdas First Sikhs were Guru and Gurus were Sikh and we find the Bani of Bhatts,Baba Sunder Ji and Bhai Mardana Ji in Sri Gurgranth sahib ji and all were Ihlaam or Words of God sent to them.

And we are not like Wahbis who could say that God can nver sent words after Holy Kuran if it is same for Guru Granth Sahib Ji then God Akal is not omnipotant which goes against the sprit of Gurmat where Akal is without any limitation.

In fact at prsent in the form of Khalsa Singhs it keeps on guiding us.

Explantion of of Guru Granth Sahib Ji by Prof Sahib singh Ji ,who was a Khalsa is also deed of Akal.
Concluded.


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 20, 2005)

Satsriakal to all and Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji!
Veer Ji!

Guru Gobind Singh Ji lived many years after the very historical Vasakhi 1699 too.

He might have surely written about Vasakhi day, the Amrit Ceremony and receiving Gurmantar 'Vaheguru' from Panj Pyaras.

Do you suggest that Sikhs should suppress their queries?


Balbir Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Sep 22, 2005)

Gurfateh

Well as per research done by Budhadal people Guru wrote a full book called Sarbloh Granth after leaving Anandpur Sahib.

Das could not get mention of Amrit Sanskar but few intersting things.

Like

Guru had five beloved four were his sons and Fifth is the Khalsa.

Guru Has Twelwe forms

Ten Gurus ,Guru Granth Sahib Ji andd Khalsa.

Khalsa or Sikh even were having Triye Mudra of Kachchh Kes Kirpan.

Das is yet to come accross Gurus own writing regarding Vaisakhi 1699.

But yes recorded messages by Guru in Mangal Prakash or Sau Sakhi by Baba Gurbax Singh Ji Ram Kaur(from Baba Budha family) does talk of nector of Sabre or Khande Da Pahul.

We need to rember that as per Sarbloh Granth Khalsa is not Tantric,Yogi etc.etc. but term of Khalsa is used in most of the writings of Guru(incluidng Lakhi Jungle episode) after he left Anandpur Sahib and there was very little time between the vaishaki 1699 and leaving Anandpur Sahib as only after breacking the caste(Sarboh Granth talks of Khalsa above or better than four Varnas or caste here) did Pahri hindu kings with instigation of Parmandand or Pamma Pandit called Mughuls to attack Guru.

It is possible that self writtan record by Guru could have been drwaned in Sirsa river and Guru did not wated time to write it again as all were awre of this revulutionary event.

Like passing over of Seat from Eight Master to Ninth Master by calling Baba Bakaley was recorded by others and not Guru not For Ninth to Tenth so from Tenth to Eleventh(Khalsa) was recorderd by Eleventh ie Khalsa only.


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## drkhalsa (Jan 5, 2006)

> Satsriakal to all!
> 
> Guru Gobind Singh Ji wrote many wonderful Baanees. Did He also write about Vasakhi 1699 and the ceremony of Panj Pyaras and receiving Amrit from them?
> 
> ...


 

Dear Balbir ji 


I was wondering what you think about this thing ? do you know of any records about this ?
if not then what do you think , why guru ji never recorded it??

kindly reply 

Jatinder Singh


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## ISDhillon (Jan 5, 2006)

Satsriakal Ji,

You cannot accept the gurgaddi of SGGS either because Guru Gobind Singh Ji never wrote that down either so to all those who keep saying that khalsa is man made where is your proof that adi granth ever was given the title of guru?

Personally I accept the path as given and do not judge those who are not baptised but I am a serious protester to those who start to question sikhism because in their own reality it just does not fit into their lifestyle so it must ultimately not fit into anyone elses lifestyle, reality is not the same for all of us everyone has their own sikhi path and should follow it and learn their own way and not criticise others because you dont know their reality so cannot comment.

Indy


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## vijaydeep Singh (Jan 6, 2006)

Gurfateh

das repeats that in Sarbloh Granth Guru tells of 12 Guru's form

10 Gurus and Guru Panth and Guru Granth.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jan 6, 2006)

vijaydeep Singh said:
			
		

> Gurfateh
> 
> das repeats that in Sarbloh Granth Guru tells of 12 Guru's form
> 
> 10 Gurus and Guru Panth and Guru Granth.


 
ABSOLUTELY and 110% CORRECT.

Example..Guru Arjun Ji ddint record his shahedee...neither did any other Sikh historian...even Bhai Gurdass didnt mention it.  So can we say Guru Ji was NOT martyred ??

Simialr to why Guru Ji didnt write about Vasakhi 1699, or Khande Batte De Pahul and Khalsa Formation... where did the KHALSA come from and why does Guru Ji write Khalsa mera roop hai KHAS...

This type of idle speculation leads NOT to scholarship but the DEVIL's WORKSHOP... 

Sikhs have 10 "Gurus" in Physical human Form BUT ONE JYOT of NANAK ONLY, Guru Granth Ji in "written Form" and Guru Khalsa Panth in KHALSA FORM...are the Present GURU JI forever and forever.  NOTHING else besides.  Jarnail Singh


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## Archived_member2 (Jan 6, 2006)

Satsriakal to all and Jatinder Singh Ji!

I feel our Gurus recorded all what was necessary. It took decades after Guru Gobind Singh Ji that some opportunists and business minded people started writing about Sikhism further.

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Dear I.S. Dhillon Ji!

Truth cannot be challenged and proved an untruth. Our Gurus and their Banis are Truth.

The query raised here is about what our Gurus never authenticated. 

Should we get awakened or feel shaky for our failures and wrong preachers?

Perhaps we feel criticized for our shortcomings.

Gurbani is ever great as Truth about Paramaatmaa.

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Dear Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji!

A Sikh practices the Sikhi whole long life. One day he finds that the values he was holding tightly were never mentioned by our Gurus. He will surely try to find the DEVIL who injected the mischief.

I would say not to waste rest of human life in finding the Devil.

The purpose of life is to merge in Truth.

The spiritual catalyst is true Simran.

Love.


Balbir Singh


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## ISDhillon (Jan 6, 2006)

"The query raised here is about what our Gurus never authenticated"

The gurus seal or authentication is a living testament of sikhs today that is the only proof that it all happened, I do not feel shaky in the slightest.

Indy


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## Archived_member2 (Jan 6, 2006)

Satsriakal to all and ISDhillon Ji!

You wrote "The gurus seal or authentication is a living testament of sikhs today that is the only proof that it all happened"

Please elaborate this. What is the living testament of Sikhs today that is the only proof? And what all happened?

I will be grateful.


Balbir Singh


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## ISDhillon (Jan 6, 2006)

Satsriakal Balbir Singh Ji,


 "What is the living testament of Sikhs today that is the only proof? And what all happened?"

originally in your earlier post you aked for why the guru did not authenticate the khalsa, the amrit ceremony is passed through the generations and it is the guru panth today which is living proof of that historical event being authentic, we do not need to have it written down, a community is the collective living testament to sikhism.  We should focus on living sikhism and stop anylysing every part of sikhism because if we are true to the ideals of our faith then the guru must be honoured as being present today in the granth and the panth, however we do not see the guru in this way because iff we did then why was their never such indepth analysis when the guru was in bodily roop, it is simple we live in a society which asks a reason for everything and therefore we have become victims and the bad effect of this is that we fail to honour the guru today as we did 300 years ago. Guru can give gyan which can aid the world but instead we question the guru instead of surrendering to the guru.

Indy


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## Archived_member2 (Jan 6, 2006)

Satsriakal to all and ISDhillon JI!

You wrote " . . . a community is the collective living testament to sikhism."

In my view, One does not learn Sikhi from others in a community. From the community one may learn imitating.

One becomes A Sikh by receiving NAAM from the Satguru. His whole existence starts evolving toward God.

You have written about faith and information provided by the community. The whole Maya is germinating this way.

There is a difference between learning (getting informed) from outside and learning to recognize God's Will and his 

Wisdom from within.

The true Guru does not give us information about Truth. The true Guru merges us with God's Wisdom and enjoys singing 

Truth with us.

The true experience of Truth shatters all kind of faith, belief and presumptions.

A preacher blames the mistrust among learners.

The true Guru wipes out the mistrust among learners (Sikhs).

Love.


Balbir Singh


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## ISDhillon (Jan 6, 2006)

With respect Balbir Ji,

Your last post has nothing to do with the authenticating seal of amrit and maryada, the true guru does wipe out distrust, I have no distrust about amrit and maryada if you do have some queries do tell and I will see if I can help out, again the guru panth is a living testament to the historical truth that 1699 did happen, the satsangat is not a place where we learn by copying but a place to support and share learning collectively, there is no other guru apart from the guru panth and guru granth, if their is do tell.  Rehat and temporal order are not fixed, the guru made changes and that is what khalsa is supposed to represent ie, continuity and change, distrust arises solely because we do not realise that temporal order can be changed with changing circumstances, however the initiation and symbols are fixed.

Love,

Indy


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## manbir (Jan 7, 2006)

Like every religion, Sikhism too has two aspects - The first one is the Religious aspect and the second one is the Social aspect. 

In most of the religions both the aspects are *defined*. The social aspect is evolved and formed in relation to a particular period and time. BUT the *TIME* is ever changing. If you try to analyze all major religions of this world, the social aspects (ritualistic) of the religion which were defined earlier have with passage of time become unacceptable or automatically discarded by the society.

The problem with the human beings is that it has since ages given the social aspect of a religion more importance than the religious aspect and that created all the ills of the society. 

The most wonderful aspect of Guru Nanak's teachings is that unlike other religions it totally discards this social (ritualistic) aspect of religion. That is why it was not defined and codified by our Gurus. 

Our Gurus were too farsighted and had a thought process unlike common human beings like us. They were well aware of the human failings. Every Shabad in SGGS depicts the weakness of human mind and body. 

Do you think that our Gurus from Guru Nanak to Guru Gobind Singh Ji did not have time to define and write down the Maryadas ?

Or are we that foolish to think that our Gurus forgot about it !!!! 
It seems that we Sikhs subconsciously consider ourselves better Sikhs that our Gurus !!! 
Our Gurus gave us a complete Maryada in the form of SGGS. Why and What more we need that we cannot find in SGGS. 
Do we consider ourselves better equipped to write something better than our Gurus !!!
If you have any dought try and test it on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji – you’ll be surprised how it unshackles you from the bondages of this world. You’ll need not wander aimlessly.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Jan 7, 2006)

Gurfateh

In Guru Granth Sahib Ji,We are told

One who fights for poor is brave.(bani onto Sant Kabir)

Aborbebed in Others women and pleausre of slander and did not do devotion of absorbed(Bani via Ninth Master)
Removal of hairs leads to lower intellect.(First Master).

The right of other is pork to that(Muslim) and beef to that(Hindu).


Are these things not touching social aspect.
Then 
that is caste as we do deeds./Sa Jaat Sa Paat hai Jete Karam Kamye.

Das can say that by mercy of Akal das know Vedanta very well.
The God in Upnishads is 101% same as in Gurmat.
Many of Nirmalas behold Gurmat as same as Vedanta.

BJP men Mr Balbeer Punj openy tagg us as Vedanta.


If we go by fact as stating that  sprituality has nothing to do with socity then it is hypocry in general terms.(in open world outside Gurmat).

Yes scince,logic or even sprituality in Vedanta did not casue much change in social fieds so it was defeated by inferior idealogies.

Let us see Gurmat,It has brought socail changes in classes via sprituality.More has to be done.

As das gave examples above By Numero Uno Book Adi Guru Granth Sahib Ji in Panth both aspect of Sprituality and social aspect go side by side.Knowledge and devotion both are togather.

The concept to separate them makes us Vedantic.Our egao will ince{censored} without devotiojn and we will fight within ourselves and with others.

If some one imagine Panth lie that then das must not worry as such idealogy is self destrcutive.
So das will not oppose it but will tell them to go more deper into it and soon they will be devored by paganism.

all the best.


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## devinesanative (Jan 7, 2006)

Love is the Amrit , and Believing and having faith in love unconditionally and not breaking the Integrity of believing in love is Maryada.

Rest All is like a Ranga Ciyar .


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## vijaydeep Singh (Jan 7, 2006)

Gurfateh
Ishaq E HaqiQi ie Love to Truth ie God and not Ishaq -E- Mizazi ie love by human insticnt to worldly things.


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## ISDhillon (Jan 7, 2006)

Hello,

SGGS has a great message for mankind but it is not used for the temporal order of khalsa, their is a clear difference, when Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji was executed their was a change in the political scenario, Sri Guru Hargobind Ji then established to 2 swords miri and piri, would we get this type of incredible change from SGGS, no we would not it is the simple answer to this, temporal order must be flexible we are not saying khalsa has spiritual authority but through consensus hukumnammas and gurmattas can be passed which will reflect a changing society, and maryada is essential as a form of discipline is required to keep the body and mind in track when doing your bhagti, this is not essential to humans but is to sikhs, those who say we only need SGGS are free to believe such a thing but ultimately this belief will rest with them, and to me this belief is representing a change in society where man considers himself to be the measure of all things and is unwilling to submit himself this type of change in society is not somthing that we sikhs need to change our religion for.

Humbly

Indy


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## Archived_member2 (Jan 7, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear Indy Ji!
In your previous post you wrote "a community is the collective living testament to sikhism."
In this post you wrote "the guru panth is a living testament to the historical truth that 1699 did happen."

Many Panths are existing at present wearing our Guru's banner and claim to be the originals. Is it enough to wear a T-shirt with printed names on it? 

Our Gurus showed us the way to get liberated from the worldly entanglements. Please explain why we have made testaments to remain in a mayic world. 

It is all right when you write that there is 'the historical truth that 1699 did happen.' 
It is the truth also that 2006 is happening.

There are searchers of TRUTH. 
And there are searchers who are searching written material about 1699. I wish to spend the present life doing Simran.

There are people who are searching for reasons to reject our Guru's writings. There are people who are searching for more written material from and about our Gurus.
Our Gurus have already completed their written work long back though.

Only true Simran, in my view, gives the consciousness for true understanding.

Then you wrote "there is no other guru apart from the guru panth and guru granth."

The Granth is our Guru. Since when the Panth has become our Guru in which you are also holding a position.

I have heard that the humble Panth accompanies the Guru on Godly path. Is this a reason why a Panth starts feeling like the Guru?

You wrote at the end of your post "Rehat and temporal order are not fixed, the guru made changes and that is what khalsa is supposed to represent ie, continuity and change, distrust arises solely because we do not realise that temporal order can be changed with changing circumstances, however the initiation and symbols are fixed."

In Sansaar nothing is fixed. All the worlds are temporal. One may get rebirths repeatedly to live with it when it is so important for him.

Or one may get Mukti to merge in God who never takes birth.

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Dear Manbir Ji!
Thanks for your input. I appreciate it.

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Dear Vijaydeep Singh Ji!
One does not get liberated because he follows social and religious rules of this world and looks like Muslim, Hindu, Vedanti or a Sikh.

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Dear Devinesanative Ji!
You seem to have written this from your experiences and wisdom "Love is the Amrit."
This sounds great. 

Then you wrote "Rest All is like a Ranga Ciyar."

Would you please explain how you manage to live with both (duality) at the same time.

Love.


Balbir Singh


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## Archived_member2 (Jan 7, 2006)

Satsriakal to all and Indy Ji!

You wrote "those who say we only need SGGS are free to believe such a thing but ultimately this belief will rest with them, and to me this belief is representing a change in society where man considers himself to be the measure of all things and is unwilling to submit himself this type of change in society is not somthing that we sikhs need to change our religion for."

A person may run a business to sell the worldly religion or may dream to buy Godly matters in a particular shop. It is his luck.

In my view, God's grace has still to fall on him.

Thanks for your blessings "those who say we only need SGGS are free to believe such a thing but ultimately this belief will rest with them."

For the rest in Truth, may God help my existence to offer everything.

Love.


Balbir Singh


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## manbir (Jan 7, 2006)

The Granth is our Guru, Period.

Panth can never be our Guru. Sikhs have habit of talking with confused minds. Even intellectuals among us seem to say things not realizing the real significance of their utterances. 
I do not understand why we Sikhs have perpetual urge to equate ourselves with our Guru.


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## devinesanative (Jan 7, 2006)

Today the world is very competitive , MUKTI is ONE , HEAVEN is ONE , GOD is ONE .

That's why to crack the competive entrance exam of MUKTI , HEAVEN and GOD every one is EQUATING to GURU .

Everyone is trying to be GURMATT


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## devinesanative (Jan 7, 2006)

vijaydeep Singh said:
			
		

> Gurfateh
> Ishaq E HaqiQi ie Love to Truth ie God and not Ishaq -E- Mizazi ie love by human insticnt to worldly things.


 


			
				vijaydeep Singh said:
			
		

> Gurfateh
> Ishaq E HaqiQi ie Love to Truth ie God and not Ishaq -E- Mizazi ie love by human insticnt to worldly things.


 
Oh Dear , I was also saying the same thing ..... Not the love to any Woman ....

People visit Gurudwara not because they Love God , But because to get their wish fullfill .

At one time people say its in the hands of God , then why beg....


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## devinesanative (Jan 7, 2006)

Balbir Singh said:
			
		

> Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
> 
> Dear Indy Ji!
> In your previous post you wrote "a community is the collective living testament to sikhism."
> ...


 
Just as                                                      you Do So !!!


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## devinesanative (Jan 7, 2006)

Dear Balbir Ji

You have a good experience and wisdom more than me , but let me say something....

Never Expect Good from anyone , What ever you get , always accept it as good .

Even if a person has written 25 % Good and 75 % Bad Ignore the rest 75 % .


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## ISDhillon (Jan 7, 2006)

Satsriakal Balbir Ji,

"Since when the Panth has become our Guru in which you are also holding a position"

It took 5 sikhs to give amrit to one guru who lost the surname rai and became singh, the temporal order of the guru immersed into the corporate bofy politic of the khalsa, thats why 1699 is referred to as the cosmic play because the spiritual aspect became instilled in the granth and the temporal order beecame immersed in the khalsa, so the gurus powers were seperated and the khalsa is guru panth, the 2 go hand in hand its only when one functions without the other that we encounter problems, now I can sit here and continue to explain this but I dont think I will bother because those who would like to believe that this never happened are free to do so.  Historical truths are plenty such as the admonishing of the 10 th guru for bowing to a pirs grave, if the gurus authority was not vested in the 5 singhs then they would never had passed a judgement on the 10th master, the fact is as clear as can be that the khalsa exists to function as the temporal aspect of the guru fullstop.  Another thing before I go, people only learn the value of guru panth when it protected them to be able to do simran and seva without the panth even devotion to granth would not be possible.

If you disagree then please let me know but I would like some hard evidence to back your claims that the khalsa does not function as the temporal order of the guru.

Gurfateh!!!

Indy


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## Archived_member2 (Jan 7, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear Indy Ji!
You wrote "If you disagree then please let me know but I would like some hard evidence to back your claims that the khalsa does not function as the temporal order of the guru."

The true Panth is to walk on the way with Guru "maarag panth chalay gur satgur sang sikhaa."

The true Panth is offering mind and discarding ego.

Gurbani says mY dishu mwrgu sMqho ikau pRBU imlweIAw ]
"mai dasihu maarag santaho ki-o parabhoo milaa-ee-aa." SGGS page 1098-14
Saints showed me the Path how God is met.

mnu Ariphu haumY qjhu iequ pMiQ julweIAw ]
man arpihu ha-umai tajahu it panth julaa-ee-aa.
Mind is offered.  Ego is discarded, walked, this Panth.

Another example for Panth is this.

guru muKhu Alwey qw soBw pwey iqsu jm kY pMiQ n pwiexw ]11]
"gur mukhahu alaa-ay taa sobhaa paa-ay tis jam kai panth na paa-inaa." ||11|| SGGS page 1078-11
Spoken from Guru's mouth he receives adornment. He after birth does not walks any Panth.

One more example from Japuji Sahib is mMnY mgu n clY pMQu ]
"mannai mag na chalai panth." SGGS page 3
By knowing.  He does not walk on the way of Panth.

Please listen. The Guru is singing "har kaa panth ko-oo bataavai ha-o taa kai paa-ay laagee."

Since when political parties of Sikhs have started calling them Hari ka Panth and are expecting us to touch their feet?

This is a different matter. All worldly religions need to be organized. Please be sure I am not against such bodies.

The spiritual growth is not achieved by following the rules of such bodies.

--------------

Dear Indy Ji!
What is the Panth you are talking about? 

Our Gurus through Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji explain us that accompanying the true Guru is the way. And walking along with the Guru, all Panths are left behind.

It is your duty now. Let all know where our Gurus have asked us to follow the Panth and its Maryada you are mentioning.

Please make me wise.


Balbir Singh


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## ISDhillon (Jan 7, 2006)

Satsriakal Balbir Ji

"The true Panth is to walk on the way with Guru "maarag panth chalay gur satgur sang sikhaa.""

I agree with this and your guru took amrit so if you are to follow this way then khalsa is also the gurus way.


"mnu Ariphu haumY qjhu iequ pMiQ julweIAw ]
man arpihu ha-umai tajahu it panth julaa-ee-aa.
Mind is offered. Ego is discarded, walked, this Panth."

This is true and  when the guru asked for 5 heads five sikhs lossed their ego and sacrificed their heads and created a new panth.

Another example for Panth is this.

"guru muKhu Alwey qw soBw pwey iqsu jm kY pMiQ n pwiexw ]11]
"gur mukhahu alaa-ay taa sobhaa paa-ay tis jam kai panth na paa-inaa." ||11|| SGGS page 1078-11
Spoken from Guru's mouth he receives adornment. He after birth does not walks any Panth."

yes and when you are baptised you are reborn as the guru intended and will follow no other panth

"One more example from Japuji Sahib is mMnY mgu n clY pMQu ]
"mannai mag na chalai panth." SGGS page 3
By knowing. He does not walk on the way of Panth."

exactly so you should stop analysing and accept the panth that the guru gave.


"Since when political parties of Sikhs have started calling them Hari ka Panth and are expecting us to touch their feet?"

touching feet is a personal sign of devotion it does not amount to anything unless you let it.


"The spiritual growth is not achieved by following the rules of such bodies."

true you do not need any religion to repeat the name but in sikhism we do have such a body and that cannot be altered to suit others.

"What is the Panth you are talking about? "

khalsa

"Our Gurus through Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji explain us that accompanying the true Guru is the way. And walking along with the Guru, all Panths are left behind."

this is what I am saying the 10th guru also took amrit then if you do not then you are not following his walk and you are not leaving all other panths behind.  BTW a sikh is still one who is not baptised but a baptised sikh is the ideal it is the fullfillment otherwise you cannot accept the adi granth as guru because guru gobind Singh Ji on that very day also gace gurgaddi to sri guru granth sahib so how can you follow some of his edicts and reject the rest surely he was not going against sikhi by taking amrit and following maryada please I really would like you to give a response to all of my questions.

"It is your duty now. Let all know where our Gurus have asked us to follow the Panth and its Maryada you are mentioning."

HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!


amrit ceremony and maryada system has been evident in sikhism since its inception it is blantantly denying reality to suggest otherwise.  The maryada can never be fixed that is why authority for "guru changes" are invested in the khalsa panth that is why we call it guru panth if you do not understand this then I would seriously advise you do some reading and learn instead of refuting, however if you are happy and fully content on the path that you are on then that too is ok but the definition of guru panth will not be changed by any one.

"Please make me wise."

Only guru can do that

Sorry if I have offended,

Indy


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## Archived_member2 (Jan 7, 2006)

Satsriakal to all and Indy Ji!

It is pity that you are not able to provide any references from Gurbani to support your Panth.

I found many references from our Gurus to reject any Panth.

You wrote "I agree with this and your guru took amrit so if you are to follow this way then khalsa is also the gurus way."
I could not find anywhere a reference from our Guru that he took Amrit.

It is strange that the enlightened Guru, who always enjoyed Amrit through Simran, needed your present ceremonial way of Amrit to taste it again.

Please do not make the Guru responsible for your rituals.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji was born in 1666. On the Vaisakhi day of 1699 Sikhs were adorned with the names 'Singh' and 'Kaur'. In my view, the Guru showed Sikhs how to recognize the Khalsa (the purest form of God) within. He left his body on 7th of October 1708.

He wrote a lot in this time. Where are his writings about the ceremonies Sikhs are performing these days?

I can understand your situation when your answer to all queries is 'HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!'.

I am trying to understand why our Gurus never wrote a book on history.

God's Will is great. HE gets his Will performed through all of us as HE wants. He keeps those busy with karam-kaand (worldly engagements) whom He wants to exist with Maya.

Dear Indy Ji! 

Karam-kaand may be very important in your life. 

But I missed Simran a lot in your company.

Love.


Balbir Singh


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## ISDhillon (Jan 8, 2006)

Satsriakal Balbir Singh Ji,

You seemto keep ignoring the vital question which demolishes your whole "personal opinion" - and that is if your argument is that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our guru where did any of our gurus say that the Adi Granth is now guru, and again Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji did take amrit and formed the order of khalsa and allowed for people such as your self to practice simran otherwise today you would be following another "panth"- you have failed to answer any of my questions instead continue to ignore a reality which is vital to sikhism, and for your information I know of no sikh who has ever inspired me who is not khalsa if you can point me out to someone who has inspired you and who is not khalsathen I will have a look but those who do not inspire are not following the gurus hukum and that is to be baptised.  There are alot who have argued your case and they have all vanished into non-existence -  your 10th guru is the one who gives guru to your bani which love so dearly and also guru status to the panth which I respect so dearly, khalsa does not have spiritual authority that is why their is no mention of the ceremony in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, however dasam granth, karminama and plenty of other references which you have failed to draw on when making your conclusions also concur to this. 

Finally I would like to say that you maybe right that in your personal opinion you did not know much of simran and I am trapped in the entanglements of the mayic world, if this is the case then currently I relish all entanglements because I know nothing greater and have seen most of the world and khalsa is the greatest roop ever existed I defy anyone to find a greater roop than my 10th father you will make an unworthy journey because their is none.

There are many issues with your last post and I think the word I will use is denial of a divine order - this sums up what I am feeling.

Have a nice day,

Inderjit Singh Dhillon :u):


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## Archived_member2 (Jan 8, 2006)

Satsriakal to all and Indy Ji!

Your first question in this post is "where did any of our gurus say that the Adi Granth is now guru?"

I have not found it anywhere up to now. Would you please say something about this?
Please inform the Panth also what is the original name of the holy Granth given by the Guru. And Since when the title 'Guru' is added before our Granth? And since when the holy words from the Gurus have come under the ownership of a religious group solely? 

You continued "and again Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji did take amrit and formed the order of khalsa and allowed for people such as your self to practice simran otherwise today you would be following another "panth.""

You seem to know all Panths. 

I feel thankful enjoying God's Will in the company of my Guru. He creates me gratefully to be with ONE.

As an unsatisfied teacher you complained "you have failed to answer any of my questions"

I am a learner. I raised few questions in your class. Have I done a mistake? Sir!

You also wrote " . . . I defy anyone to find a greater roop than my 10th father you will make an unworthy journey because their is none."

Please do not curse others for your ignorance. For your 10th father's sake you may curse your great grand God father.

May I ask one more question Sir?

Why have you placed a smiley after your name Inderjit Singh Dhillon which seems speaking nonstop? I am not able to hear you and understand. 

I hope you are smart enough to hold the moment for a pause.

--------------

All the answers are Simran. Get ONE. Get all.

Love.


Balbir Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Jan 8, 2006)

Gurfateh


> Dear Vijaydeep Singh Ji!
> One does not get liberated because he follows social and religious rules of this world and looks like Muslim, Hindu, Vedanti or a Sikh.


 
By mercy of Akal any one who is bound by rules and has definate Path can guide us to Salvation like Our Gurus Did and like our Guru Panth is doing.

If we are selfish and attempting for our salvation then this measn that we are away from God.

The day we see God in universe and like Hand feeds mouth thinking no differance bet ween welfare of mouth and self hand as both are same body.

The day we see ourself as tool of God serving universe like Ape Data Ape Bhugta,Ape Sevak Ae Takhur. ie self lord self servent,self giver and self user.

Tha state is state of salvation while being alive.Das can just tell you what happens in that situation but it is obtained by mercy of Akal.

Dear Manbir Singh Ji,

Yuo said that Guru Granth Sahib Ji are Guru and Panth can ot be Guru.

Perhaps you have seen Sikhs who are unworthy to be ar of Guru Panth.

As you will not be able to giva quotes from Guru Granth Sahib Ji that Guru Granth Sahib Ji were made Guru by living Guru but you can only prove that Bani is Guru.

Let us see var of Bhai Gurdas Ji First,which states that Sikhs became Guru and Gurus.

Let us say Vars of Bhai Gurudas being false and let us say that they are a sort of plan of Brahimn to absorb us(this is a sort of trump card used by present day so called missioaries).

So why did inspite of Gurus being there did Bani of Dhur ir vere from Akal came unto Sikhs like Bhai Mardana,Baba Sunder,Satta,Balwand or says Bhatts.

They were Sikhs yet thier Bani is in Gurbani.Why did God spoke in them while Gurus where there(Bhagats may not be in connection with Gurus but Sikhs were there).

There Bani being included in Guru Granth Sahib Ji is roof that Sikhs were given status equal to Guru as all they had was of Guru.


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## ISDhillon (Jan 8, 2006)

Satsriakal Balbir Singh Ji,

So now you agree that their is nothing written by our gurus that historically adi granth was conferred with gurgaddi, however you then erronousley continue to call bani your guru, which seems to suggest that you have a pick and mix attitude when it comes to historical truth claims, ie you accept that historically Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave gurgaddi to granth but do not accept the status of guru to the panth because it does not suit your lifestyle, I dont have a problem with people who are not ready to give their heads for the guru but I do have a problem with people who misrepresent our religion.

You then tell me I am ignorant and I feel sorry for you because what you are doing is chucking the baby out with the bathwater I hope you understand that saying and how it fits with you.

I will not be responding further to you as I am confident that I have driven my position home and believe it is etched in your mind where your errors lie and hope it has become ingrained in the minds of others who reads this.

Finally I would just like to say I have love for all even those that commit evil because god lives in them too.

WJKK WJKF

Inderjit Singh Dhillon


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## Archived_member2 (Jan 8, 2006)

Satsriakal to all and Inderjit Singh Dhillon Ji!

Please do not try to hear words which are never spoken.

Please enliven the Truth which can never be spoken.

The guru gives me Prasaad of Simran. Truth of Gurbani accompanies His Shabad. Only words I can say are 'Wahu Guru'.
This is how Gurbani has become my Guru.

It is your history that You have found gurus in history.

You wrote ". . . I do have a problem with people who misrepresent our religion."
And your last sentence is ". . . I have love for all even those that commit evil because god lives in them too."

I pray your problems are removed soon and you start loving God in your own existence too.

Love.


Balbir Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jan 9, 2006)

ISDhillon said:
			
		

> Satsriakal Balbir Singh Ji,
> 
> So now you agree that their is nothing written by our gurus that historically adi granth was conferred with gurgaddi, however you then erronousley continue to call bani your guru, which seems to suggest that you have a pick and mix attitude when it comes to historical truth claims, ie you accept that historically Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave gurgaddi to granth but do not accept the status of guru to the panth because it does not suit your lifestyle, I dont have a problem with people who are not ready to give their heads for the guru but I do have a problem with people who misrepresent our religion.
> 
> ...


 
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji KI fateh.

It is an indisiputable fact that Guru Granth Ji is GURU of the Guru Khalsa Panth. One is MIRI and the other is PIRI..the concept already strengthenend by Guru hargobind Ji by building the Akal Takhat outside the Darbar Sahib.

Guru Khalsa Panth was accepted and codified as GURU..at vasakhi 1699 when GURU GOBIND SINGH JI knelt BEFORE the PANJ and begged them to give hIm Khande De Pahul.  This Proves that something was lacking in Gobind Rai and He needed to receive the Khande Batte de Pahul from the Punj.  Guru Gobind Singh Ji asserted the Divine Authority of the GURU KHALSA PANTH twice...once at Chamkaur..and also at a Pir's Grave when Guru JI accepted "punishment" from the Punj for a violation. IF the KHALSA had NOT been GURU..they wouldnt have DARED punish Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

This si what is so unique in..AApeh Guru aapeh Gurchela...one and only instance in World History.

Vested interests are deeply into "DENYING" the Guru Khalsa Panth as a GURU..becasue IF they manage to BREAK it up into various "sects"..then the various Maryadas can have a field day....That is why the entire SANT SAMAJ..and all the others REFUSE to accept the GURU KHALSA PANTH. Some of them do "accept" the GURBANI as GURU..just for the sake of it..so as not to arouse too much opposition ( but then many liek the namdahrees, Radhasoamis who already have grown strong..and dont quite "need" Gurbani..have thrown it away in favour of their own human Guru ?? Even these are not too averse to "USING" Gurbani for their own purposes as and when they like it..as kirtan, katha etc becasue THEIR GURU is INCAPABLE of writign fresh New GURBANI ( and its not for lack of trying..many have tried writing new so called gurbani and failed miserbaly). The example of Avatr bani of the narakdharee guru gurbachan coems to mind. There are many others along the same path..trying to write new "history" on the Panj, Khalsa, Amrti etc which are their own coloured variations....

in 1708 Guru Granth Ji was given Gurgadhi and Guru Khalsa Panth ahs to be in its Tabaiah.. There can be NO GURU GRANTH without GURU KHALSA PANTH  and vice versa. That is what GURU GOBIND SINGH JI came to accomplish. Otherwise GURBANI is Ilahi and has been GURU all along..no need to give Gurgadhi in 1708..Guru Ji made it all FORMAL.

I agree with what IS Dhillon is trying to say..110% Correct.

The one tiny mistake we have made is calling KHANDEH BATTEH DEE PAHUL..."amrit". In every written instance this is mentioned as Peevoh PAHUL KHANDEHDHAAR hoveh janam sohela.... and secondly IF we search GURBANI..we find that there is ONLY ONE "AMRIT"..and that is GURBANI. so when we refer to PAHUL as amrit we self contradict and invite criticism.

Jarnail Singh Gyani "Arshi"


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## Archived_member2 (Jan 9, 2006)

Satsriakal to all and Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji!

You started this post with "It is an indisiputable fact that Guru Granth Ji is GURU of the Guru Khalsa Panth."

Then you started the next paragraph with "Guru Khalsa Panth was accepted and codified as GURU..at vasakhi 1699 when GURU GOBIND SINGH JI knelt BEFORE the PANJ and begged them to give hIm Khande De Pahul."

Please clarify this. How many are your present Gurus? 

Is there any protocol available from Guru Gobind Singh Ji or Panj Pyaras?

It seems that the greed to rule and enjoy the authority over our Guru's earning is very strong in some. Their claim that "Guru Khalsa Panth was accepted and codified as GURU" shows their mean mentality.

It is not surprising why so many heads roll to become leaders to feel and live like gurus of the present Panth.

The deep Moh and greed, to be known as Guru, have brought some to such lowest level that they are not ashamed to say "This Proves that something was lacking in Gobind Rai and He needed to receive the Khande Batte de Pahul from the Punj."

What kind of wisdom is this? What was lacking in our enlightened Guru?

I am sorry. I cannot read your post further.


Balbir Singh


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## Admin (Jan 9, 2006)

Sat Sri Akal respected BalBir Ji and All fellow Readers,

Please accept my best regards. 

I am not advocating anyone here. I believe, everybody has got a different style to convey/express his/her messages to others. In this case, in Gyani ji strong tone, i can feel his love his Guru... if you will read his entire message only then will you be able to understand what said initially. We have to read all his previous messages on this forum and other forums to really understand his style of expressing his throughts on various aspects on sikhism... and only then make a decision.

Respected BalBir ji, even i can say that most of your posts contain too much sarcasam for messages posted by fellow members. We do appreciate your philosophy or understanding of sikh school of thought but to ridicule and criticise others for their thinking is far too easy for a intellectual person like yourself... this only makes it far more difficult for others to reach at your level and understand what you want to convey. Everyone has his/her own personality, let us not judge them just because they said something in a particular manner... Let us all try to give everybody his due place to breath & groom their spirituality as per their own present level of understanding. As they may never adhere to your thinking at this stage or vice versa and thats the beauti of spiritualism, mysticism. Let us try to find our paths while appreciating others path too. My humble request.

Please accept my best regards


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## Archived_member2 (Jan 9, 2006)

Satsriakal to all and Aman Singh Ji!

Thanks for your suggestions.

God may be available easier in discussions for some, specially on Internet Forums. I wish them all good luck.

It was great to know many views about Sikhism.

It is not surprising to note how Sikhs have become many. The Gurus message is about ONE, though.

I wish all best of Satsangs further.

Love.


Balbir Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Jan 9, 2006)

Gurfateh

First Master bowed to Second Master and Latter told that it was like fathers bowing doen to pick up his child from mud.

so Tenth Master did respect us so that we be like him as our father wants  us to be like him.

He told us to reconganise ourself and let thier be a raise inour dignity. 

Guru is one Akal and verbal manifetaion is Sabad Guru and Physical incarnation is Guru Panth Khalsa.

It is Avtar of Kaliyuga(as per Sau Sakhi).


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## devinesanative (Jan 9, 2006)

Dear Friends

Good and Bad are the two aspects of one object .

Negative and Positive are the two aspects of the one object.

When ever one writes or speaks , whatever he/she writes will always carry both the aspects.

The listener or the reader who has been exposed to much Negative or bad aspect , his/her mind will direct him/her to always look for negative and bad aspect of whatever is written .

The listener or the reader who has been exposed to much Positive or Good aspect , his/her mind will direct him/her to always look for Positive and Good aspect of whatever is written . 

And if a listener and reader is a man/woman of wisdom , he/she will absorb the wisdom from both the aspects of the object.


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## rosethorne (Jan 9, 2006)

WJKK WJKF

My dear Gursikhs its really not the question of AMRIT And MARYADA, but the question of two aspects only? Dear devinesanativeji said of two aspects of anything. But in the view of Gursikhi Has only one aspect MARYADA of GURU. Whatever the facts are in writing or by other means we know, can't make any difference. We are just Humans and having knowlegde through our academics. But our GURU's were having knowlegde from AKAL. We know a little of that our GURUS knows it all.
Whenever a Gursikh take Khande-Bate-Da-Pahul then only he realize the fact about DHANGURUGOBINDSINGH MAHARAJ, Whatever HE said or Done in his Entire 42yrs, can anybody say to do as little as 1% of that. That Pahul By HIMSELF He has given to Baba Deep Singh Ji Shaheed. And Baba Deep Singh proved the power of the PAHUL. We are scared by the PAHUL nowadays. Then we are trying to escape from that. Thats why we are making so many excuses in words. If we know the power of word then we willbe not in trying to escape from Pahul. Because Pahul gets everybody to nearer the SHABDGURU.  May Satguru sanu samat dein.


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## Astroboy (Feb 5, 2008)

Awesome discussion.


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## vsgrewal48895 (Jul 7, 2009)

*Dear All,*

*Here are my two cents on;*


*Sabd Guru on Rahat**/Rahit**(**ਰਹਤ** /**ਰਹਿਤ**)*​

The two words Rahat ਰਹਤ and Rahit ਰਹਿਤ have different meanings and have to be understood as such. 

The word *Rahat*ਰਹਤis derived from Rahi, which in turn is derived from Raha/Rahana, meaning reside, dwell, exist, continue, or remain, custom, habit, manner, mathod as written in Mahan Kosh and Gurmukhi word dictionary of AGGS by Dr. Surinder Singh Kohli. 

The words *Rahat/**ਰਹਤ*(*way of life or desciplin)*and *Rahit/**ਰਹਿਤ** (*without or excep) are incorporated in AGGS in the following hymns of Guru Nanak (Ragas Bilawal and Parbhati) and Guru Arjan in (Ragas Bhairo and Sarang


ਸਾਚੀ ਰਹਤ ਸਾਚਾ ਮਨਿ ਸੋਈ ॥


Full Sabd​

*ਨਿਕਟਿ ਵਸੈ ਦੇਖੈ ਸਭੁ ਸੋਈ **॥**ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵਿਰਲਾ ਬੂਝੈ ਕੋਈ **॥* ਵਿਣੁ ਭੈ ਪਇਐ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਸਬਦਿ ਰਤੇ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਐਸਾ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਨਾਮੁ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਵਸਿ ਰਸਿ ਰਸਿ ਮਾਨੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਕਥੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ॥ ਕਥਿ ਕਥਿ ਬਾਦੁ ਕਰੇ ਦੁਖੁ ਹੋਈ ॥ਕਥਿ ਕਹਣੈ ਤੇ ਰਹੈ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥ਬਿਨੁ ਰਸ ਰਾਤੇ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੨॥ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਸਭੁ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਹੋਈ ॥ਸਾਚੀ ਰਹਤ ਸਾਚਾ ਮਨਿ ਸੋਈ ॥ਮਨਮੁਖਕਥਨੀਹੈਪਰੁ ਰਹਤ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥* ਨਾਵਹੁ**ਭੂ*ਲੇ ਥਾਉ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥ਮਨੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਬੰਧਿਓ ਸਰ ਜਾਲਿ ॥ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਬਿਆਪਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਬਿਖੁ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ਜੋ ਆਂਜੈ ਸੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਕਾਲਿ ॥ਕਾਰਜੁ ਸੀਧੋ ਰਿਦੈ ਸਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਲਿ ॥੪॥ਸੋ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਜਿਨਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਈ ॥ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਪਤਿ ਗਵਾਈ ॥ਆਪੇ ਕਰਤੈ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਾਈ ॥ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਆਪੇ ਦੇ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥੫॥ਰੈਣਿ ਅੰਧਾਰੀ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਜੋਤਿ ॥ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਝੂਠੇ ਕੁਚਲ ਕਛੋਤਿ ॥ਬੇਦੁ ਪੁਕਾਰੈ ਭਗਤਿ ਸਰੋਤਿ ॥ਸੁਣਿ ਸੁਣਿ ਮਾਨੈ ਵੇਖੈ ਜੋਤਿ ॥੬॥ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਮੰ ॥ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਊਤਮ ਕਰਾਮੰ ॥ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਜੋਨੀ ਦੂਖ ਸਹਾਮੰ ॥ਬੰਧਨ ਤੂਟੇ ਇਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਸਾਮੰ ॥੭॥ਮੰਨੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਚੀ ਪਤਿ ਪੂਜਾ ॥ਕਿਸੁ ਵੇਖਾ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਦੂਜਾ ॥ਦੇਖਿ ਕਹਉ ਭਾਵੈ ਮਨਿ ਸੋਇ ॥ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਹੈ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥੮॥੧॥


_Nikat vasai __ḏek__ẖai sab__ẖ so▫ī__. Gurmuk__ẖ virlā būj__ẖai ko▫ī__. vi__ṇ b__ẖai pa▫i▫ai b__ẖaga__ṯ na ho▫ī__. Saba__ḏ ra__ṯe sa__ḏā suk__ẖ ho▫ī__. ||1|| Aisā gi▫ān pa__ḏārath nām__. Gurmuk__ẖ pāvas ras ras mān__. ||1|| rahā▫o. Gi▫ān gi▫ān kathai sab__ẖ ko▫ī__. Kath kath bā__ḏ kare __ḏuk__ẖ ho▫ī__. Kath kah__ṇai __ṯe rahai na ko▫ī__. Bin ras rā__ṯe muka__ṯ na ho▫ī__. ||2|| Gi▫ān __ḏẖi▫ān sab__ẖ gur __ṯe ho▫ī__.__Saachee Rahat Saachaa Man Soyee,__ Manmukh Kathnee Hai Par Rahat Na Hoyee, __Naavoh Bhoolay Thaou Na Koyee__.__ Man mā▫i▫ā ban__ḏẖi▫o sar jāl__. G__ẖat g__ẖat bi▫āp rahi▫o bik__ẖ nāl__. Jo āŉjai so __ḏīsai kāl__. Kāraj sī__ḏẖo ri__ḏai samĥāl__. ||4|| So gi▫ānī jin saba__ḏ liv lā▫ī__. Manmuk__ẖ ha▫umai pa__ṯ gavā▫ī__. Āpe kar__ṯai b__ẖaga__ṯ karā▫ī__. Gurmuk__ẖ āpe __ḏe vadi▫ā▫ī__. ||5|| Rai__ṇ an__ḏẖārī nirmal jo__ṯ__. Nām binā j__ẖū__ṯẖe kuc__ẖal kac__ẖẖo__ṯ__. Be__ḏ pukārai b__ẖaga__ṯ saro__ṯ__. Su__ṇ su__ṇ mānai vek__ẖai jo__ṯ__. ||6|| Sās__ṯar simri__ṯ nām __ḏari__ṛ▫ām__. Gurmuk__ẖ sāŉ__ṯ ū__ṯam karāmaŉ__. Manmuk__ẖ jonī __ḏūk__ẖ sahāmaŉ__. Ban__ḏẖan __ṯūte ik nām vasāmaŉ__. ||7|| Manne nām sac__ẖī pa__ṯ pūjā.__ Kis vek__ẖā nāhī ko __ḏūjā__.__ Ḏek__ẖ kaha▫o b__ẖāvai__ man so▫e. Nānak kahai avar nahī ko▫e. ||8||1||_

Akal Purkh dwells close at hand, and sees all,but how rare is the Guru willed who understands this. Without the Fear of God, there is no devotional worship. Imbued with the Word of the Sabd, eternal peace is attained. ||1|| Such is the spiritual wisdom, the treasure of the Naam; obtaining it, the Guru willed enjoy the subtle essence of this nectar. ||1||Pause|| Everyone talks about spiritual wisdom and spiritual knowledge.Talking, talking, they argue, and suffer. No one can stop talking and discussing it. Without being imbued with the subtle essence, there is no liberation. ||2|| Spiritual wisdom and meditation all come from the Guru. The True way of life comes through Truth embedded in the mind. The self-willed talks about it, but does not practice it. Forgetting the Name, one does not find any solace or peace. Maya has caught the mind in the trap of the whirlpool. Each and every heart is trapped by this bait of poison and sin. See that whoever has come, is subject to death. Your affairs shall be adjusted, if you contemplate the Akal Purkh in your heart. ||4|| He alone is a spiritual teacher, who lovingly focuses his consciousness on the Word of the Sabd.The self-willed, egotistical self willed loses his honor.The Creator Itself inspires us to Its devotional worship. God blesses the Gurmukh with glorious greatness. ||5|| The life-night is dark, while the Divine Light is immaculate. Those who lack the Naam, are false, filthy and untouchable. The Vedas preach sermons of devotional worship. Listening, hearing and believing, one beholds the Divine Light. ||6|| The Shaastras and Simritees implant the Naam within. The Guru willed lives in peace and tranquility, doing deeds of sublime purity. The self-willed suffers the pains of reincarnation. Enshrining the Name of the One Akal Purkh bonds are broken. ||7|| Believing in the Naam, one obtains true honor and adoration. Who should I see? There is none other than the Akal Purkh. I see, and I say, that Akal Purkh alone is pleasing to my mind. Says Nanak, there is no other at all. ||8||1|| 
-----Guru Nanak, Raag Bilawal, AGGS, Page. 831-12 


*ਸਚੀ ਰਹਤ ਸਚਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਏ **॥**੭**॥*


Full Sabd​

ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹਿ ਸਗਲ ਜਗੁ ਛਾਇਆ ॥ਕਾਮਣਿ ਦੇਖਿ ਕਾਮਿ ਲੋਭਾਇਆ ॥ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਅਪਨਾ ਇਕੁ ਰਾਮੁ ਪਰਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ਐਸਾ ਜਾਪੁ ਜਪਉ ਜਪਮਾਲੀ ॥ਦੁਖ ਸੁਖ ਪਰਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਨਿਰਾਲੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ਗੁਣ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ਸਾਚ ਸਬਦਿ ਤੁਝ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥ਆਵਾ ਗਉਣੁ ਤੁਧੁ ਆਪਿ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥ਸੇਈ ਭਗਤ ਜਿਨ ਸਚਿ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇਆ ॥੨॥ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਰਹਰਿ ਨਿਰਬਾਣੀ ॥ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭੇਟੇ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ॥ਸਗਲ ਸਰੋਵਰ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਣੀ ॥ਆਨਦ ਰੂਪ ਵਿਟਹੁ ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ॥੩॥ਭਾਉ ਭਗਤਿ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਪਾਏ ॥ਹਉਮੈ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਜਲਾਏ ॥ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਠਾਕਿ ਰਹਾਏ ॥ਸਚਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਏ ॥੪॥ਬਿਸਮ ਬਿਨੋਦ ਰਹੇ ਪਰਮਾਦੀ ॥ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਮਾਨਿਆ ਏਕ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ॥ਦੇਖਿ ਨਿਵਾਰਿਆ ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਆਗੀ ॥ਸੋ ਬੂਝੈ ਹੋਵੈ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ॥੫॥ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵੇ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਏ ॥ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਜਾਗੈ ਸਚਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਏ ॥ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ਸੁਖਦਾਤਾ ਸੇਵੇ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੬॥ਸੇਵਾ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰਿ ॥ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਜਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਏ ॥*ਸਚੀ ਰਹਤ ਸਚਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਏ **॥**੭**॥*ਸੁਖਦਾਤਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਮੇਟਣਹਾਰਾ ॥ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਸੂਝਸਿ ਬੀਜੀ ਕਾਰਾ ॥ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਆਗੈ ਰਾਖਿਆ ॥ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਹੈ ਮਹਾ ਰਸੁ ਚਾਖਿਆ ॥੮॥੨॥

_M__ā▫__i__▫ā__ mohi sagal jag c__ẖẖ__ā▫__i__▫ā__. K__ā__ma__ṇ__ḏ__ek__ẖ__ k__ā__m lob__ẖ__ā▫__i__▫ā__. Su__ṯ__ kanc__ẖ__an si__▫__o he__ṯ__ va__ḏẖ__ā▫__i__▫ā__. Sab__ẖ__ kic__ẖẖ__ apn__ā__ ik r__ā__m par__ā▫__i__▫ā__. ||1|| Ais__ā__ j__ā__p japa__▫__o japm__ā__l__ī__.__ Ḏ__uk__ẖ__ suk__ẖ__ parhar b__ẖ__aga__ṯ__ nir__ā__l__ī__. ||1|| rah__ā▫__o. Gu__ṇ__ ni__ḏẖ__ā__n __ṯ__er__ā__ an__ṯ__ na p__ā▫__i__▫ā__. S__ā__c__ẖ__ saba__ḏ__ṯ__uj__ẖ__ m__ā__hi sam__ā▫__i__▫ā__.__ Ā__v__ā__ ga__▫__o__ṇ__ṯ__u__ḏẖ__ā__p rac__ẖ__ā▫__i__▫ā__. Se__▫ī__ b__ẖ__aga__ṯ__ jin sac__ẖ__ c__ẖ__i__ṯ__ l__ā▫__i__▫ā__. ||2|| Gi__▫ā__n __ḏẖ__i__▫ā__n narhar nirb__ā__ṇ__ī__. Bin sa__ṯ__gur b__ẖ__ete ko__▫__e na j__ā__ṇ__ī__. Sagal sarovar jo__ṯ__ sam__ā__ṇ__ī__.__ Ā__na__ḏ__ r__ū__p vitahu kurb__ā__ṇ__ī__. ||3|| B__ẖ__ā▫__o b__ẖ__aga__ṯ__ gurma__ṯ__ī__ p__ā▫__e. Ha__▫__umai vic__ẖ__ahu saba__ḏ__ jal__ā▫__e.__ Ḏẖ__ā__va__ṯ__ r__ā__k__ẖ__ai __ṯẖ__ā__k rah__ā▫__e. Sac__ẖ__ā__ n__ā__m man vas__ā▫__e. ||4|| Bisam bino__ḏ__ rahe parm__ā__ḏ__ī__. Gurma__ṯ__ m__ā__ni__▫ā__ ek liv l__ā__g__ī__.__ Ḏ__ek__ẖ__ niv__ā__ri__▫ā__ jal m__ė__h __ā__g__ī__. So b__ū__j__ẖ__ai hovai vadb__ẖ__ā__g__ī__. ||5|| Sa__ṯ__gur seve b__ẖ__aram c__ẖ__uk__ā▫__e. An__▫__ḏ__in j__ā__gai sac__ẖ__ liv l__ā▫__e.__ Ė__ko j__ā__ṇ__ai avar na ko__▫__e. Suk__ẖ__▫__ḏ__ā__ṯ__a seve nirmal ho__▫__e. ||6|| Sev__ā__ sura__ṯ__ saba__ḏ__ v__ī__c__ẖ__ā__r. Jap __ṯ__ap sanjam ha__▫__umai m__ā__r. J__ī__van muka__ṯ__ j__ā__ saba__ḏ__ su__ṇ__ā▫__e. Sac__ẖ__ī__ raha__ṯ__ sac__ẖ__ā__ suk__ẖ__ p__ā▫__e. ||7|| Suk__ẖ__▫__ḏ__ā__ṯ__a __ḏ__uk__ẖ__ meta__ṇ__h__ā__r__ā__. Avar na s__ū__j__ẖ__as b__ī__j__ī__ k__ā__r__ā__.__ Ŧ__an man __ḏẖ__an har __ā__gai r__ā__k__ẖ__i__▫ā__. N__ā__nak kahai mah__ā__ ras c__ẖ__ā__k__ẖ__i__▫ā__. ||8||2||_


Emotional attachment to Maya is spread out all over the world. Seeing a beautiful woman, the man is overcome with sexual desire. His love for his children and gold steadily increases. He sees everything as his own, but he does not own the One God. ||1|| I meditate as I chant on such a mala, that I rise above pleasure and pain; I attain the most wondrous devotional worship of the Akal Purkh. ||1||Pause|| O Treasure of Virtue, Your limits cannot be found. Through the True Word of the Sabd, I am absorbed into You. You Yourself created the comings and goings of reincarnation. They alone are devotees, who focus their consciousness on You. ||2|| Spiritual wisdom and meditation on the God of Nirvaanaa- without meeting the True Guru, no one knows this. Akal Purkh's Light fills the sacred pools of all beings. I am a sacrifice to the Embodiment of Bliss. ||3|| Through the Guru's Teachings, one achieves loving devotional worship. The Sabd burns away egotism from within.The wandering mind is restrained and held in its place.The True Name is enshrined in the mind. ||4|| The exciting and intoxicating worldly plays come to an end, for those who accept the Guru's Teachings, and become lovingly attuned to the One Akal Purkh. Seeing this, the fire in the water is extinguished. They alone realize this, who are blessed by great good fortune. ||5|| Serving the True Guru, doubt is dispelled. Those who are lovingly attuned to the True God remain awake and aware night and day. They know the One Creator, and no other. Serving the Giver of peace, they become immaculate. ||6|| Selfless service and intuitive awareness come by reflecting upon the Word of the Sabd. Chanting, intensive meditation and austere self-discipline come by subduing the ego. One becomes Jivan-mukta - liberated while yet alive, by listening to the Sabd. Living a truthful way of life, one finds true peace. ||7|| The Giver of peace is the Eradicator of pain. I cannot conceive of serving any other. I place my body, mind and wealth in offering before God. Says Nanak, I have tasted the supreme, sublime Essence of the Lord. ||8||2|| -----Guru Nanak, Raag Parbhatee, AGGS, Page, 1343-4 & 5


ਰੋਗ*ਰਹਿਤ*ਮੇਰਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਜੋਗੀ ॥
Full Sabd​
ਹਉਮੈ ਰੋਗੁ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਕਉ ਦੀਨਾ ॥ ਕਾਮ ਰੋਗਿ ਮੈਗਲੁ ਬਸਿ ਲੀਨਾ ॥ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਰੋਗਿ ਪਚਿ ਮੁਏ ਪਤੰਗਾ ॥ ਨਾਦ ਰੋਗਿ ਖਪਿ ਗਏ ਕੁਰੰਗਾ ॥੧॥ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਸੋ ਸੋ ਰੋਗੀ ॥ਰੋਗ ਰਹਿਤ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਜੋਗੀ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਜਿਹਵਾ ਰੋਗਿ ਮੀਨੁ ਗ੍ਰਸਿਆਨੋ ॥ ਜਿਹਵਾ ਰੋਗਿ ਮੀਨੁ ਗ੍ਰਸਿਆਨੋ ॥ ਬਾਸਨ ਰੋਗਿ ਭਵਰੁ ਬਿਨਸਾਨੋ ॥ ਹੇਤ ਰੋਗ ਕਾ ਸਗਲ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥ ਤ੍ਰਿਬਿਧਿ ਰੋਗ ਮਹਿ ਬਧੇ ਬਿਕਾਰਾ ॥੨॥ ਰੋਗੇ ਮਰਤਾ ਰੋਗੇ ਜਨਮੈ ॥ ਰੋਗੇ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੋਨੀ ਭਰਮੈ ॥ ਰੋਗ ਬੰਧ ਰਹਨੁ ਰਤੀ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਰੋਗੁ ਕਤਹਿ ਨ ਜਾਵੈ ॥੩॥ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮਿ ਜਿਸੁ ਕੀਨੀ ਦਇਆ ॥ ਬਾਹ ਪਕੜਿ ਰੋਗਹੁ ਕਢਿ ਲਇਆ ॥ ਤੂਟੇ ਬੰਧਨ ਸਾਧਸੰਗੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਿ ਰੋਗੁ ਮਿਟਾਇਆ ॥੪॥੭॥੨੦॥
_Ha▫umai rog mānuk__ẖ ka▫o __ḏīnā. Kām rog maigal bas līnā.__ Ḏarisat rog pac__ẖ mu▫e pa__ṯangā. Nā__ḏ rog k__ẖap ga▫e kurangā. ||1|| Jo jo __ḏīsai so so rogī. Rog rahi__ṯ merā sa__ṯgur jogī. ||1|| rahā▫o. Jihvā rog mīn garsi▫āno. Bāsan rog b__ẖavar binsāno. He__ṯ rog kā sagal sansārā. Ŧariba__ḏẖ rog mėh ba__ḏẖe bikārā. ||2|| Roge mar__ṯā roge janmai. Roge fir fir jonī b__ẖarmai. Rog ban__ḏẖ rahan ra__ṯī na pāvai. Bin sa__ṯgur rog ka__ṯėh na jāvai. ||3|| Pārbarahm jis kīnī __ḏa▫i▫ā Bāh paka__ṛ rogahu kad__ẖ la▫i▫ā. Ŧūte ban__ḏẖan sā__ḏẖsang pā▫i▫ā. Kaho Nānak gur rog mitā▫i▫ā. ||4||7||20||_

Mankind is afflicted with the disease of egotism. The disease of sexual desire overwhelms the elephant. Because of the disease of vision, the moth is burnt to death. Because of the disease of the sound of the bell, the deer is lured to its death. ||1|| whoever I see is diseased. Only my True Guru, the True Yogi, is free of disease. ||1||Pause|| Because of the disease of taste, the fish is caught. Because of the disease of smell, the bumble bee is destroyed. The whole world is caught in the disease of attachment. In the disease of the three qualities, corruption is multiplied. ||2|| In disease the mortals die, and in disease they are born. In disease they wander in reincarnation again and again. Entangled in disease, they cannot stay still, even for an instant. Without the True Guru, the disease is never cured. ||3|| When the Supreme Akal Purkh grants Its Mercy, grabs hold of the mortal's arm, and pulls him up and out of the disease. Reaching the Company of the Holy, the mortal's bonds are broken and the Guru cures him of the disease, says Nanak ||4||7||20|| -----Guru Arjan, Raag Bhairo, AGGS, Page, 1140-17


*ਰਹਿਤ*ਬਿਕਾਰ ਅਲਪ ਮਾਇਆ ਤੇ ਅਹੰਬੁਧਿ ਬਿਖੁਤਿਆਗੀ ॥


Full Sabd​

*ਜਾ ਕੀ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ **॥ **ਸਜਨੁ ਸੁਰਿਦਾ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ਸਹਜੇ ਸੋ ਕਹੀਐ ਬਡਭਾਗੀ **॥ **ਰਹਿਤ*ਬਿਕਾਰ ਅਲਪ ਮਾਇਆ ਤੇ ਅਹੰਬੁਧਿ ਬਿਖੁਤਿਆਗੀ ॥ਦਰਸ ਪਿਆਸ ਆਸ ਏਕਹਿ ਕੀ ਟੇਕ ਹੀਐਂ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਪਾਗੀ ॥੧॥ ਅਚਿੰਤ ਸੋਇ ਜਾਗਨੁ ਉਠਿ ਬੈਸਨੁ ਅਚਿੰਤ ਹਸਤ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨਿ ਜਗਤੁ ਠਗਾਨਾ ਸੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਠਾਗੀ ॥੨॥੪੪॥੬੭॥

_Jā kī rām nām liv lāgī. Sajan suri__ḏ__ā suhėlā sehjė so kahī&shy;ai badb__ẖ__āgī. Rahi__ṯ__ bikār alap mā&shy;i&shy;ā __ṯ__ė ahaŉ&shy;bu__ḏẖ__ bik__ẖ__ṯ__i&shy;āgī._


One who is lovingly absorbed in the Name of Akal Purkh is a good-hearted friend, intuitively embellished with happiness. He is said to be blessed and fortunate, who is without sin or corruption, is detached from Maya, and has renounced the poison of egotistical intellect. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Sarang, AGGS, Page, 1217-10

Guru Arjan also ponders on the way of life similarly in the following references:

Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri Sukhmani, AGGS, Page, 283-14

Guru Arjan, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page 71-7

Guru Arjan, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page, 51-12&13 

Cordially,

Virinder S. Grewal


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## Astroboy (Jul 7, 2009)

YouTube - Taksal on Rehat Maryada Part 1


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## spnadmin (Jul 7, 2009)

Since the official language of the forum is English. People who are Punjabi only speakers  most likely do not frequent an English-language forum. They go to Punjabi language forums. So it would be most kind and an act of true seva for someone to give an English synopsis of the comments made in the YouTube video.


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## Astroboy (Jul 8, 2009)

Narayanjot Kaur Ji,
My sincere apologies for not adding comments earlier as the utmost important thing I had in mind during the time I posted this video was making copies (burning CDs) for free distribution esp on "Taksal on Dasam Granth". I find the explanation in the 4 parts in Youtube to be a sincere effort in bringing forth the most logical explanation for Charitropakhians which I myself endorse to be reasonably explained. 

With regards to the above video on Maryada, the commentator talks about how Maryada has been changed by SGPC without having any basis of agreement to do so in previous meetings of Jathedars of the various sects held since 1933 onwards. A description of the minutes of various meetings on Maryada were highlighted by the commentator. He said that the last two meetings up till 1945 were heated arguments and no conclusive decision was made on the proposed changes put forward. So how could SGPC hold a meeting after 1945 and made the amendments. On what basis did they make the changes.

The commentator says that the original Maryada is still being followed by Taksal and Late Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala.


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## spnadmin (Jul 8, 2009)

NamJap ji

Thanks a million for the synopsis. Speaking on the video is the jathedar (?) for Damdami Takht -- which has a maryada that is different from the Sikh Rehat Maryada. In fact it is very different article by article and page by page. 

The Damdami Maryada can be viewed at this source:
Damdami Taksaal Online Website - Rehat Maryada


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