# Nanak Has No Miracle



## Sher_Singh (Nov 15, 2004)

Guru Fateh Sangat Jeo.

As you all know that in Sikhi we are forbidden to believe in miracles. I read a line which is in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and would like the Gurmukhi script to it, shabad name, verse, page number etc. I no what the english translation is but i am asking you, my fellow members to help me find the Gurmukhi script to it.
The line is as follows:

"Nanak has no miracle, apart from the True Lord Himself"

I know that is not of much help, but please try your best to find which shabad this line is from.

Thank you in advance,

Guru Fateh.


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## CaramelChocolate (Nov 15, 2004)

Waheguruji ka khalsa Waheguruji fateh

Try searching www.srigranth.org it is a very good website...


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## drkhalsa (Nov 15, 2004)

isDu hovw isiD lweI iriD AwKw Awau ]
sidhh hovaa sidhh laaee ridhh aakhaa aao ||
If I were to become a Siddha, and work miracles, summon wealth

gupqu prgtu hoie bYsw loku rwKY Bwau ]
gupath paragatt hoe baisaa lok raakhai bhaao ||
and become invisible and visible at will, so that people would hold me in awe

mqu dyiK BUlw vIsrY qyrw iciq n AwvY nwau ]3]
math dhaekh bhoolaa veesarai thaeraa chith n aavai naao ||3||
-seeing these, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||3||

sulqwnu hovw myil lskr qKiq rwKw pwau ]
sulathaan hovaa mael lasakar thakhath raakhaa paao ||
If I were to become an emperor and raise a huge army, and sit on a throne,

hukmu hwslu krI bYTw nwnkw sB vwau ]
hukam haasal karee bait(h)aa naanakaa sabh vaao ||
issuing commands and collecting taxes-O Nanak, all of this could pass away like a puff of wind.

mqu dyiK BUlw vIsrY qyrw iciq n AwvY nwau ]4]1]
math dhaekh bhoolaa veesarai thaeraa chith n aavai naao ||4||1||
Seeing these, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||4||1||


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## librated_sikh_lionz (Nov 22, 2004)

i agree, sikhism has no place for miracles


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## RandeepSingh (Dec 12, 2004)

Waheguru Ji Ke Khalsa
Whaeguru Ji Ke Fateh

What do you mean Sikhism has no place for miracles! 

Miracle is defined as "An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God"
Are you trying to say that Sikhism has no place for God acting in the universe?


"Nanak has no miracle, apart from the True Lord Himself"
They are not Gurus' miracles, they are God's miracles.

Ofcourse there is a place for miracles in Sikhism, wasn't Guru Nanak's first vision of God communicating to him a miracle?!

I am very upset that I am reading these posts.

--Randeep


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## Neutral Singh (Dec 12, 2004)

Welcome Randeep Singh... 

I agree with you, while holding the baby in my hands i realise that life is a miracle... 

Then, what Guru Nanak Ji is conveying to us... thats what we are philosophizing... please take no offence... everybody has the right to seek...

Have a nice time and Enjoy miracle of life...

Best Regards
Aman


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Dec 13, 2004)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.

What veer ji probably means by "no miracles"...is that in GURMATT...it is the GURU's MATT that prevails.....and for GURU JI it is WAHEGURU-MATT that prevails.  

That is why Guru Arjun Ji says: TERA BHANNA meetha lageh....NAAM padareth Nanak mangeh. Guru Arjun Ji, the Prophet of PEACE, writer of SUKHMANI the Psalm of Peace .. is sitting on a Hot Plate being literally roasted alive....and Sain Mian Mir begs Guru ji's "permisiion" to Perform a MIRACLE.... cause the Cities of Lahore and DELHI to CLASH brick by brick and be destroyed in an instant. Sain Main Mir had this POWER.. He was a SAINT of GOD..BUT GURU JI just lifted His Saintly hand signifying "NO"...and said Tera Bhanna Meetha Lageh.. SWEET is YOUR WILL oh my Waheguru ...!!!

Again and again GURBANI, tells us that we himans MUST NOT interfere in GOD's PLAN...God's NATURE MUST PREVAIL. IF it pleases GOD to Make RAIN..then let it RAIN....IF it pleases HIM to make DROUGHT..then let the drought prevail... that is the lesson Guru Angad Dev ji TAUGHT US ALL in the incidetn involving the "holy man" who told the farmers the cause of the long drought in the area was due to the presence of Guur Angad Ji...and if He was chased out, he would ensure RAIN would fall. SO GURU JI told the sangat..if that is the case I will GO OFF and Guru Ji retreated to a place far away...BUT RAIN didnt come no matter how much the holy man prayed..and chanted his mantras.... finally BHAI AMARDASS JI couldnt stand all this sham..and he blurted out... Wherever you DRAG this HOLY MAN..RAIN WILL FALL..a "SAINT BHAGAT of Waheguru had spoken and WAHEGURU always keeps the IZZAT of His Bhagats... where-ever the farmers dragged the "holy man"..rain would fall...and in the RUSH to DRAG the holy man, the farmers pulled this way and that and the "holy man" was torn to pieces...  When GURU ANGAD JI heard of this episode, Guru Ji severely admonished Bhai Amardass Ji for interfering in God's Plan....but what had been done was done and Bhai Amardass Ji begged Guru Ji's forgiveness.

SO Khlasa ji..there are "miracles" and  MIRACLES.  The TRUE MIRACLE is Taan hundeh nitaana...NOT SHOWING POWER in spite of having complete POWER..Maan hundeh NIMANNA....being HUMBLE while holding highest Office !!! Nioatiang dee oaat....niasrianh da aasraa...

Guur Ji Guru Gobind Singh Ji warns us... in this world MAGIC TRICKS are a plenty...  NATAK CHETAK....turning sticks into snakes...turning water into wine, using five fish to feed a multitude..are "miracles"
SO is Guru nanak Ji grinding a single mustard seed in a mortar full of water to feed a dozen sidhs...TRUE WAAND CHHAKNA..is a TRUE MIRACLE..not magic trick. EACH one of US can perform the TRUE MIRACLE Guur nanak ji showed us....but can every Christian feed a multitude with just five fishes ?? just ask the nearest one.

Isnt the SAME NANAK JYOT travelling through TEN human bodies over a span of 250 years..a TRUE MIRACLE... ISNT becoming a Waho waho Gobind Singh AApe GUR - CHELA..a true Miracle. Just show me one LEADER who has voluntarily given up his leaderee to His CHELAS and BOWED before them ?? Guru Ji did that at vasakhi 1699...where He raised His KHALSA to His LEVEL and gave the Khalsa GURUSHIP and bowed before the Khalsa.

Then we have the Real Life MIRACLE...of Transforming virtual SLAVES that had endured the filthiest form of slavery for more than a THOUSAND YEARS....into the KHALSA that sent the Foreign Invaders packing all the way to TURKEY...ordinary people who were jsut farmers, halwaiyees, sweet meat makes, cooks, grass cutters, show makers, etc etc into the FINEST WARRIORS that defeated the well trained well paid soldiers of the Moghul Armies...not on Equal terms but VASTLY OUT NUMBERED and out gunned as well.... from the Kacha house at Chamkaur, to the Deserts of Muktsar, ..From the Small misls to Saragarhi... from the Battlefields of Mudkee to the battlefields of Europe..none has seen finer soldiers than the KHALSA... the same people that only 200 hundred years before Guru Gobind Singh Ji were walking barefoot, bareheaded, not allowed to even keep  a kitchen knife..eating forbidden foods, using foreign languages, reading their scriptures in private, giving their unmarried daughters to the nearest muslim who wanted them.... and in one stroke GURU GOBIND SIGH JI transformed them into Horse riding, DASTAAR DHAREE, SWORD wielding warriors of the highest order...who went after the thousands of hindustani daughters beign sold in kabul to bring them back with HONOUR...and CLOSED the Borders of PUNJAB to foreign invasions forever.

These are the MIRACLES in SIKHISM....which each and every SIKH can perform...unlike those "miracles" which only certain perople can perform !!! And thousands upon thousands of Sikh martyrs performed these LIFE GIVING miracles daily from 1469 till today...

Jarnail Singh


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## drkhalsa (Dec 13, 2004)

Dear Jarnail Singh ji

Thanks a lot for your way of discribing the miracle in SIKHI . It made some of the points lying scattered inside me in to a concrete understanding .

Jatinder singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 13, 2004)

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

For A Sikh,The God Akal show miracle at every stage of life by helping him/her.

one must have faith in Akal.

BUT

no Miracle must be Showen by human nor Miracle shown by Man like(say Satya Sai Baba) be belived.

Juglers to do miracle so are magitians.

Banda did show so was punished.


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## Rani Sandhu (Mar 2, 2009)

Just curious...so is there a such thing as 'black magic, vudu', palm reading....where do they fall?  Why do ppl still follow it or are in a favour of it?


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 2, 2009)

Rani Sandhu said:


> Just curious...so is there a such thing as 'black magic, vudu', palm reading....where do they fall? Why do ppl still follow it or are in a favour of it?


I am gona add Psychics, superstitions, astrologists, numerologists) to your list.
I would also add prayer to the list of things. Prayer in terms of asking God for something or praying for someone to get better.

Try this exercise before proceeding. This exercise illustrates how people start to believe in what psycologists call pseudoscience, the "supernonsense" like palm reading, superstitions, miracles, black magic, etc.

*Exercise:There is a very strong positive correlation between the number of ice-creams eaten and deaths from drowning. Are ice-creams dangerous?*

The reason people still follow that nonsense is because they are lazy and don't make the effort to think logically (or don't know how). 
There is this phenomenon where if you repeat something over and over. Eventually, it becomes familiar to the listener and the listener is more likely to think that it is true. It is easy to see how this can be related to pseudoscience. 

They are lazy because they'd rather wait for a miracle that will make "x" happen, instead of making "x" happen themselves. 
x = could be anything
Example:
"Hey since I am too lazy to study for this upcoming test, why don't I use some magic to pass?"
Those who do study will also continue to believe in "magic" if they pass because human nature finds relationships between "random things". These relationships we make, affect our thinking. Superstitions, magic, etc arise from these relationships. The funny thing is that there might be more variables involved that might be affecting the two "random things", causing the relationship to occur. But we overlook those variables or don't know of them and continue to believe in the relationships we found. 
Thinking logically will prevent that to a degree, beyond that we must look at evidence. People who believe in such things are almost never critical thinkers.

What do the lines on someone's palm have to do with who they are as a person?
We know that people develop different behaviours due to rewards, punishments , the way they think, and according to their genes. No strong correlations have been found between someone's palm and their character.
So that's palm reading that has to do with character, what about predicting someone's future?
Well, there is no support for this either. In fact, statistical evidence shows that Psychics are nothing but fakes. I read that there is a reward for $125,000, for a Psychic to prove he/she is a Psychic, from psycologists (in new zealand?).

Why don't these Pshyics predict their own future and get a better job so they can live a better life (make more money perhaps)?? 
Why don't they predict events like Hurricanes, tornadoes, so that we get a chance to prepare?!?

So people basically believe in palm reading, psychics, voodoo because they are too lazy and don't make the effort to think about things logically. People often support things with little evidence, leading to relationships between two unrelated things. Also there are very few people out there with critical thinking skills. Critical thinking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(I know my post is very disorganized...)


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## spnadmin (Mar 2, 2009)

_"There is this phenomenon where if you repeat something over and over. Eventually, it becomes familiar to the listener and the listener is more likely to think that it is true"
_ 
Baghat Ji

This happens all the time. Politicians do it, corporate executives do it, advertising firms do it. A person really has to be on their toes to avoid its effects.


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 2, 2009)

aad0002 said:


> _"There is this phenomenon where if you repeat something over and over. Eventually, it becomes familiar to the listener and the listener is more likely to think that it is true"_
> 
> Baghat Ji
> 
> This happens all the time. Politicians do it, corporate executives do it, advertising firms do it. A person really has to be on their toes to avoid its effects.


Yep, I just remembered what its called, the *validity effect*. You mention some authorities but it happens everywhere right in your own backyard, which makes it extremely hard to avoid. In fact, some of the things you believe in might have come from validity effect, and you don't even know it.

Psycologists have studied this by giving people lists of statments (in random order everytime and many of them changed in different rounds). Then asked to rate them: true, false, etc. 
What they noticed was that the statements that came more often would eventually be rated true, even though participants had originally answered false or not true, originally.

Aad Ji x 10^99, politicians are also a good source of practice when identifying fallacies in arguments.


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## spnadmin (Mar 2, 2009)

Bhagat ji

What is Aad Ji x 10^99? Sounds like I am in the matrix or something like that.


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## Randip Singh (Mar 3, 2009)

Sher_Singh said:


> Guru Fateh Sangat Jeo.
> 
> As you all know that in Sikhi we are forbidden to believe in miracles. I read a line which is in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and would like the Gurmukhi script to it, shabad name, verse, page number etc. I no what the english translation is but i am asking you, my fellow members to help me find the Gurmukhi script to it.
> The line is as follows:
> ...



I am from the school of thought that believe this.


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 4, 2009)

aad0002 said:


> Bhagat ji
> 
> What is Aad Ji x 10^99? Sounds like I am in the matrix or something like that.


Oh, its one of my witty jokes. :yes: Here's where it starts: http://www.sikhism.us/sikh-media-watch/23260-a-miracle.html 
Its actually Aad and then Ji x 10^99. The more Ji's the better and you can't go higher than Ji x 10^99.


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## spnadmin (Mar 5, 2009)

Bhagat ji

Thanks for the explanation. Now how high does the ego fly?


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 5, 2009)

:shrug:

haha, you got me there.


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