# I Believe In God, But Do Not Want To Follow Any Religion



## sachbol (Aug 1, 2011)

One of my learned friends has asked me a question. He says 

" God created human but religions were not created by Him. I strongly believe in God and pray that I should not do any thing wrong.
 I want to respect all religions but do not want to follow any religion. Religion is a failure as every religion is fighting every religion. 
New religions are being created to milk people. New avatars of GODS are born in considerable number. People have different 
sub religions which are again fighting among themselves. There is caste fighting. I can guide you to a Gurdwara where so called 
low caste Mazhabis are not allowed. What benefit is my religion giving me?"

Khalsaji Please give your valuable comments


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 1, 2011)

*re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion. *

Guru Nanak Ji Sahib DID NOT CREATE any religion..........The SGGS is NOT a religious text..its a WAY OF LIFE..JEEVAN JAACH..how to live our LIFE and meet the Maker when the time comes....the SGGS is a TOOL BOX...full of all types of TOOLS to help us shape our lives..and CREATE a new LIFE.  You sound like...I LOVE SCHOOL and want to go to SCHOOL..but I wont listen to any teacher or read any books...  Or this..I Love Carpentry and want to make the best furniture..BUT i hate the TOOL - BOX.. containing the saw hammer etc..thats a load of JUNK...and I hate the sight of wood.


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## kds1980 (Aug 1, 2011)

*re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion. *



sachbol said:


> One of my learned friends has asked me a question. He says
> 
> " God created human but religions were not created by Him. I strongly believe in God and pray that I should not do any thing wrong.
> I want to respect all religions but do not want to follow any religion. Religion is a failure as every religion is fighting every religion.
> ...



Well the answer is very simple .It is human nature to fight with Each other.Look at 20th centuries wars how many of them were cause by religion?
Please ask your friend to speak only in sign language because Language has divided more people than religions 

.Then ask your friend never to be patriot to any country  because love for country provokes many people to fight and die for your country.

There is nothing that can gurante humans will stop fighting.Look at Telengana movement .All; 3 regions of Andhra pradesh speak telugu but still Telanganities are fighting and even commtting suicide fir separate state


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## prakash.s.bagga (Aug 1, 2011)

*re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion. *

SACHBOL Ji,
First of all try to understand what makes you to believe.You should be getting the answer you may be looking for.

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Harry Haller (Aug 1, 2011)

*re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion. *

re·li·gion  
noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.the practice of religious  beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

Hmm religion does not seem to adequately describe sikhism, or certainly my interpretation of sikhism, I think to adequately describe it for me, there would have to be a 6, if sikhism were to be described as a religion

6. To be in consonance with the truth, and one day, to be the truth

As there is no 6, I have to assume sikhism is a way of life rather than a religion


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## prakash.s.bagga (Aug 1, 2011)

*re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion. *

HARRY HALLER Ji,
Excellent elaboration of the meaning of the word Religion and how Sikhisim can be related to the word Riligion.
Yes,Sikhism is a Marag, A Path, A way to life as per No 6 of your message.

Prakash.s.Bagga


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 1, 2011)

*re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion. *

Kiv sachiara hoeeah..kiv kuurreh tutteh paal...How to become one with TRUTH and break the WALL ( of Falsehood) standing between One and TRUTH....Hukm Razaaii challnna..OBEY HIS HUKM ALWAYS. His HUKM is His WILL...this is the First HOLE in the Wall of falsehood...and its got to be all smashed and destroyed by the time He Calls YOU..Ghallehy ayeh nanka SADDEH utth Jayeh...be READY as we have LIVED  a GOOD LIFE as He Ordained...
And there is NO "after life..heaven or hell waiting for you....as the Forest Fire Burns down and destroys the OLD gaing Forest before it....NEW FRESH SHOOTS SPRING UP BEHIND...in the Fertile fields cleared by the same Fire....and New Forests spring UP and the Cycle goes on...  see attached picture..


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 1, 2011)

*re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion. *

Artwork in Previous post attatchment: Daasra Prem Singh of Canada.


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## Ambarsaria (Aug 1, 2011)

*Re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion.*



sachbol said:


> One of my learned friends has asked me a question. He says
> 
> " God created human but religions were not created by Him. I strongly believe in God and pray that I should not do any thing wrong.
> I want to respect all religions but do not want to follow any religion. Religion is a failure as every religion is fighting every religion.
> ...


Sachbol ji can you please share the characteristics of your God?  It is very undefined without some clear statement of what you understand it to be.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## sachbol (Aug 1, 2011)

*Re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion.*

I agree. To reach Him we have to select a path and Sikhism is the best path as it does not criticize other paths.
 It respects all the paths (religions ). Guru Nanakji has clearly given the message "Na koi Hindu Na Musalmaan" Let
 us follow him. I agree he did not create any religion, he created an easy and simple way of life. Dhan Dhan Sri Guru
 Nanakji, Dhan Dhan Sikhi and Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Saheb. I started this thread as this is a common man's doubt
 and I am a very common man. Please keep on giving your valuable views. It is the requirement of the day


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## sachbol (Aug 1, 2011)

*Re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion.*



Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Kiv sachiara hoeeah..kiv kuurreh tutteh paal...How to become one with TRUTH and break the WALL ( of Falsehood) standing between One and TRUTH....Hukm Razaaii challnna..OBEY HIS HUKM ALWAYS. His HUKM is His WILL...this is the First HOLE in the Wall of falsehood...and its got to be all smashed and destroyed by the time He Calls YOU..Ghallehy ayeh nanka SADDEH utth Jayeh...be READY as we have LIVED  a GOOD LIFE as He Ordained...
> And there is NO "after life..heaven or hell waiting for you....as the Forest Fire Burns down and destroys the OLD gaing Forest before it....NEW FRESH SHOOTS SPRING UP BEHIND...in the Fertile fields cleared by the same Fire....and New Forests spring UP and the Cycle goes on...  see attached picture..



Gyaniji, please keep on guiding. I do not have words to thank or appreciate !


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## Ambarsaria (Aug 1, 2011)

*Re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion.*



sachbol said:


> Gyaniji, please keep on guiding. I do not have words to thank or appreciate !


Baba Farid ji about 400 years before Guru Nanak ji.  Sikhism has a long history almost a thousand years may be.

‪Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan - Turia Turia Ja Farida‬&rlm;      - YouTube

Enjoy.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## kds1980 (Aug 2, 2011)

*Re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion.*



Ambarsaria said:


> Baba Farid ji about 400 years before Guru Nanak ji.  Sikhism has a long history almost a thousand years may be.
> 
> ‪Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan - Turia Turia Ja Farida‬&rlm;      - YouTube
> 
> ...



Not sure I have discussion  on this issue on Sikhawareness.com  and many of the posters believe that actually the bani of Baba farid in Guru granth sahib is not of Baba Farid of Shakarganj ,but it was different baba Farid  as Earlier Baba Farid was Hardcore muslim missionary


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## aristotle (Aug 2, 2011)

*Re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion.*

In the beginning, every serious believer thinks the same. But when the mind's horizon expands and prejudices start appearing, it demands a theory in the form of a religious philosophy. So much so, the most basic questions like 'What/Who is God?','What is the purpose of one's life?','What is the status of virtues and vices/sins/' appear difficult to answer in the absence of a set philosophy. Sooner, the person may either be biased towards one religion or the other or may divert towards agnosticism and then atheism. 
All religious philosophies are not the same and all the *Gods* of different religions aren't. Every religion is unique in some respect or the other. In my view, continuing indefinitely as a theist without any religious affiliation is very difficult, if not impossible.


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## Ambarsaria (Aug 2, 2011)

*Re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion.*



kds1980 said:


> Not sure I have discussion  on this issue on Sikhawareness.com  and many of the posters believe that actually the bani of Baba farid in Guru granth sahib is not of Baba Farid of Shakarganj ,but it was different baba Farid  as Earlier Baba Farid was Hardcore muslim missionary


kds1980 ji I am not aware of that.  If it is correct what you say, I stand corrected so please provide reference.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## spnadmin (Aug 2, 2011)

*Re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion.*



aristotle said:


> In the beginning, every serious believer thinks the same. But when the mind's horizon expands and prejudices start appearing, it demands a theory in the form of a religious philosophy. So much so, the most basic questions like 'What/Who is God?','What is the purpose of one's life?','What is the status of virtues and vices/sins/' appear difficult to answer in the absence of a set philosophy. Sooner, the person may either be biased towards one religion or the other or may divert towards agnosticism and then atheism.
> All religious philosophies are not the same and all the *Gods* of different religions aren't. Every religion is unique in some respect or the other.



If I could thank you more than once for these 2 paragraphs I would.


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## Ambarsaria (Aug 2, 2011)

*Re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion.*



aristotle said:


> In the beginning, every serious believer thinks the same. But when the mind's horizon expands and prejudices start appearing, it demands a theory in the form of a religious philosophy. So much so, the most basic questions like 'What/Who is God?','What is the purpose of one's life?','What is the status of virtues and vices/sins/' appear difficult to answer in the absence of a set philosophy. Sooner, the person may either be biased towards one religion or the other or may divert towards agnosticism and then atheism.
> All religious philosophies are not the same and all the *Gods* of different religions aren't. Every religion is unique in some respect or the other. In my view, continuing indefinitely as a theist without any religious affiliation is very difficult, if not impossible.


Aristotle ji I did not want to impose and rather hear from the gentleman directly to say "What God meant for him or his questioner."  

I agree with what you say.  This is a common line of dominant religion (say Hinduism in India) to postulate likeness of others, specially smaller groups (say Sikhs in India) to be just much as they are.  Way to assimilate and destroy smaller groups.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## kds1980 (Aug 2, 2011)

*Re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion.*



Ambarsaria said:


> kds1980 ji I am not aware of that.  If it is correct what you say, I stand corrected so please provide reference.
> 
> Sat Sri Akal.



There is very little evidence available regarding Bhagats available


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## aristotle (Aug 2, 2011)

*Re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion.*



Ambarsaria said:


> Aristotle ji I did not want to impose and rather hear from the gentleman directly to say "What God meant for him or his questioner."
> 
> I agree with what you say.  This is a common line of dominant religion (say Hinduism in India) to postulate likeness of others, specially smaller groups (say Sikhs in India) to be just much as they are.  Way to assimilate and destroy smaller groups.
> 
> Sat Sri Akal.



Exactly Sir, encouraging non-religionism in counties like India is equivalent to converting people into Hinduism. Any person who is not affiliated to any other religion is considered a Hindu. Parallely, Sikhs must encourage a strong religious philosophy among their community on the lines as Islamists and Christians have (not in the negative sense of the word, of course). 
We must bring forth an indigeneous flavour of our religion for every community and ethnic group. For an instance, I have noticed for Christian missionaries that they include the culture of the country in their sermons where they preach, celebrate the local heroes, and take care not to include a huge load of foreign words the local people can't understand. That makes it easy for the common man to adopt Christianity, and I personally believe that is the secret of success of Christian missionaries in most of the Eastern countries. I am not saying that we should copy the Christian story, but firmly believe that one should adopt good measures from others. Please do correct me if I am wrong.


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## aristotle (Aug 2, 2011)

*Re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion.*



kds1980 said:


> Not sure I have discussion  on this issue on Sikhawareness.com  and many of the posters believe that actually the bani of Baba farid in Guru granth sahib is not of Baba Farid of Shakarganj ,but it was different baba Farid  as Earlier Baba Farid was Hardcore muslim missionary



There is a good book named 'ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵਾਲੇ ਸੇਖ ਫਰੀਦ ਦੀ ਭਾਲ' (In search of the Sheikh Farid of Guru Granth Sahib) by Prof.Pritam Singh. The writer believes that the Baba Farid is the same Farid Shakarganj and he was not a hardcore staunch muslim faqir who spent his life luring people into Islam as erroneously mentioned by the historians but was a Sufi, a mystic who was at oneness with God.


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## kds1980 (Aug 2, 2011)

*Re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion.*



aristotle said:


> There is a good book named 'ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵਾਲੇ ਸੇਖ ਫਰੀਦ ਦੀ ਭਾਲ' (In search of the Sheikh Farid of Guru Granth Sahib) by Prof.Pritam Singh. The writer believes that the Baba Farid is the same Farid Shakarganj and he was not a hardcore staunch muslim faqir who spent his life luring people into Islam as erroneously mentioned by the historians but was a Sufi, a mystic who was at oneness with God.



Well our own sikh history site say that he was a muslim missionary

http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/events/farid.html

Baba Farid ji visited a city called Mokhalpur, it is now called Faridkot in honor of the Baba Farid ji, it is the Indian part of Punjab. Then he turned towards the Punjabi mountains where he converted a tribe.


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## BhagatSingh (Aug 2, 2011)

*Re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion.*



aristotle said:


> In the beginning, every serious believer thinks the same. But when the mind's horizon expands and prejudices start appearing, it demands a theory in the form of a religious philosophy. So much so, the most basic questions like 'What/Who is God?','What is the purpose of one's life?','What is the status of virtues and vices/sins/' appear difficult to answer in the absence of a set philosophy. Sooner, the person may either be biased towards one religion or the other or may divert towards agnosticism and then atheism.
> All religious philosophies are not the same and all the *Gods* of different religions aren't. Every religion is unique in some respect or the other. In my view, continuing indefinitely as a theist without any religious affiliation is very difficult, if not impossible.


Ah so prejudice is the culprit! If it were not for prejudice we would know the actuality of what is. But since there is prejudice, there is then conceptualization, in form of questions or answers. Then there come to be  judgements of which religion is better and so forth, the bias.

It is at the heart of religion to lead man to a non-prejudiced state. 

Here is something to think about. You say that every religion is unique, every philosophy is unique. I would add that everything that exists is unique. No two things ever look alike.

If everything is unique. What is actually unique? How is it unique to be unique like everything else?

"Uniqueness" is then just a label we attached on to the actuality of what is. Or one could say that in the nature of "uniqueness" there lies the "same".

We have come to a contradiction, a paradox, through inquiring into any particular label. The label contradicts with itself!

We are back to the culprit that is prejudice. The prejudice is that which appears as a concept, a thought, an opinion or idea, and through the concept, thought, opinion or idea, the non-conceptual, that which cannot be translated into concept, thought, opinion or idea, is realized. That which we also give various labels, one of them being God, and others being Aristotle, Ambarsaria, Spnadmin, Bhagat Singh to name a few.

This realization of the non-conceptual through the concepts laid out in religious canons, is at the heart of every unique religion.

So we have basically *named* things, and we see that each name fails to name. So that which the name is trying to name is Nameless. And through the name, the nameless can be found.

No wonder Bhagat Namdev ji says:
_Some say he is far. Some say he is near._ (When you inquire into what each wise man says, it is realized that-)
_We might as well just say that the fish climbs out the water and up the tree._ (In others words anything we say is inherently nonsense, even though it makes a lot of sense to us)
_Why speak such nonsense?_
_Those you know God stay quiet about it._

This never gets old.

Cheers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Awesome post you wrote.


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## aristotle (Aug 2, 2011)

*Re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion.*



BhagatSingh said:


> Ah so prejudice is the culprit! If it were not for prejudice we would know the actuality of what is. But since there is prejudice, there is then conceptualization, in form of questions or answers. Then there come to be  judgements of which religion is better and so forth, the bias.
> 
> It is at the heart of religion to lead man to a non-prejudiced state.
> 
> ...



BhagatSingh Ji,
The question is whether a person can indefinitely exist without any religious affiliation and still believing in God. There may be many such people who claim to believe in God but, they may not all be serious believers. Just believing in a 'God' without understanding the attributes attached to him(?) for long seems non-viable to me. It may work well for a transition state but not forever. 
Even Bhagat Namdev Ji had a set concept of God as an omnipotent, all pervading Lord who doesen't come in incarnations and cannot be worshiped as stone idols. By saying that every religion is unique, I meant to say that every religion has different explanations of Godliness and even the word 'God'. Even when we say that the 'God is one', we are imagining the 'God' as explained by our own belief system. For example, 'God' in _Sikhism_ is omnipotent, formless and all pervading; in _Islam_ and _Christianity _he(?) is human-like; in _Buddhism_ there is no God at all and in _Jainism_ and _Hinduism_ it is a very vague concept.
If a person can live without prejudices and with all the virtues by himself there is probably no need of religion at all, but it is as I believe, all theory and may not work for long when put to the tests of real life circumstances and may succumb to frustration and utter confusion.


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## aristotle (Aug 2, 2011)

*Re: I Believe in God, but Do not Want to Follow Any Religion.*



kds1980 said:


> Well our own sikh history site say that he was a muslim missionary
> 
> http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/events/farid.html
> 
> Baba Farid ji visited a city called Mokhalpur, it is now called Faridkot in honor of the Baba Farid ji, it is the Indian part of Punjab. Then he turned towards the Punjabi mountains where he converted a tribe.



Brother,
Being a missionary doesen't always mean wrong. When we say Baba Farid was  a muslim missionary we start imagining a person with a dark-green turban who swears at the very sight of 'qaafirs' and spends his whole time devising new methods to convert them to Islam. The present missionaries may be like the stereotypes but not Baba Farid, at least this is what I believe. There wasn't any Sikhism (as an organised religion, bcoz Baba Farid had died even before Guru Nanak Sahib was born), so there were only two dominant religions Hinduism and Islam at that time, and Baba Farid believed in Islam (Even as other Bhagats who were either Muslim or Hindu, by birth or by choice, that doesen't mean the Sikhs who believe in their teachings are Hindus or Muslims).
The big question is, *WHY* did the Gurus include Baba Farid's bani in the Guru Granth Sahib. They wouldn't, for sure had done so, had Baba Farid been a qaafir-hating savage muslim mullah. They did so because he was a true Sufi, a mystic. The words like namaaz, Allah etc. which appear in his Bani are a direct consequence of his Muslim upbringing (For example, for a child living in a Celtic household in Scotland, the only religious place is a 'Church', he may even call a 'Gurudwara' as a 'Sikh Church') and has nothing to do with the alleged qaafir-hating nature. The first thing we should do is to read the underlined message of Sikhism from Baba Farid's Bani, that way, friend we may better be able to judge his true personality. History books are man-made, Bani is Eternal.


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