# Can The Sound Waheguru Replace Raam?



## Archived_member2 (Dec 11, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

I received a strange e-post today. It states 'The sound now is Waheguru, not Raam.'.

I want to ask what they did with the adored sound Raam that the Gurus received from God. 

The word Raam occurs many thousand times in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. In Guru's life it was active behind all Godly engagements.

Please express your views if it is the new rule to become a Sikh.


Balbir Singh


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## Archived_Member16 (Dec 11, 2006)

*“Vaheguru Gurmantar Hai…”*​*Sunday 28th August, 2005*

*Manvir Singh Khalsa*​ 
ਮ: 5 ॥ ਪਾਪੜਿਆ ਪਛਾੜਿ ਬਾਣੁ ਸਚਾਵਾ ਸੰਨ੍- ਕੈ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੜਾ ਚਿਤਾਰਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੁਖੁ ਨ ਥੀਵਈ ॥2॥

"Fifth Mehl: Take aim with the arrow of Truth, and shoot down sin. Cherish the Words of the Guru's Mantra, O Nanak, and you shall not suffer in pain. ||2||" (Ang 521, SGGS)

Mantar is a Sanskrit word, simply meaning "incantation". Just as the fragrance is infused in the flower, and the light of the sun is hidden in the colours, similarly, the essence of the Divine Expression resulting from Super Consciousness is summed up in the Mantar. The Akhree or the letter form of Mantar is the expression of the subtle Primal Sound, which is beyond the reach of our bodily senses and the three modes of material nature. Thus the Mantar is not an ordinary word; it's embedded with the transcendental vibratory sound that represents the Absolute Purity. 

ਪੰਚੇ ਸਬਦ ਵਜੇ ਮਤਿ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਅਨਹਦੁ ਵਜਿਆ ॥ ਆਨਦ ਮੂਲੁ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੁ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਗੋਵਿਦੁ ਗਜਿਆ ॥
"The Panch Shabad, the Five Primal Sounds, vibrate with the Wisdom of the Guru's Teachings; by great good fortune, the Unstruck Melody resonates and resounds. I see the Lord, the Source of Bliss, everywhere; through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, the Lord of the Universe is revealed." (Kaanrra, Ang 1315, SGGS)

By chanting a Mantar we try to invoke the Pure Being who resides within. Thus, the Mantar is the Name of the Inner Being whom we are calling or want to Realise. Therefore, if chanted with concentration, intuitive understanding, determination, constancy, assiduousness and feeling, the Mantar will open a person to themselves — it will bring the person face to face with the Divine Light within.

ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਤੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਅਉਖਧੁ ਪੁਨਹਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜੀਅ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਅਧਾਰੁ ॥
"(To dispel the sleep of attachment, for that person the Lord’s Name is the) Mantar, Naam is Tantar (magic), Naam is the all-curing medicines and Naam is the act of atonement. The Name of the Lord, Har, Har, is the Support of the soul and the breath of life." (Guarree, Ang 184, SGGS) 

The Mantars for Simran (remembrance of the Lord) are usually short, containing only a few syllables. Relatively longer Mantars are impractical for chanting and meditation, thus loose their effectiveness. The shorter Mantars of fewer syllables are more effective, because they are more likely to flow better with the natural rhythm of the breathing process or 'Praans', easy to remember and more suitable for concentration and remembrance. 

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਦੀਓ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ॥ ਇਹ ਆਸਰ ਪੂਰਨ ਭਏ ਕਾਮ ॥2॥
"The True Guru has given me the Mantra of the Lord's Name. By this Support, my affairs have been resolved. ||2||" (Gaurree, Ang 196, SGGS)

ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਅਖਰ ਦੁਇ ਭਾਖਿ ॥ ਹੋਇਗਾ ਖਸਮੁ ਤ ਲੇਇਗਾ ਰਾਖਿ ॥3॥33॥
“Says Kabeer, chant the two letters of the Lord's Name (Baba Kabeer Ji’s Mantar was ‘Raam’: the Gurmukhi letters ‘Raaraa’ plus ‘Mammaa’). If He is your Lord and Master, He will protect you. ||3||33||" (Gaurree, Ang 329, SGGS)

Guru Ji imparts self-knowledge (ਆਤਮ ਗਿਆਨ), which removes the veil of ignorance that separates us from Vaheguru. Guru Ji also gives his Sikhs the ‘Gurmantar’ (the Divine Name) whose unbroken chanting or meditation brings the individual mental-control and inner purity. Both of these essentials of spirituality have been provided to us by our Guru, Guru Nanak Sahib Ji. We have been blessed with the Gurbani for self-knowledge, and the Gurmantar is bestowed to us by the Guru-roop Panj Piaare and Guru Granth Sahib Ji’. 
‘Vaheguru’ (also spelt ‘Waheguru’) is the Gurmantar for the Sikhs (invocatory formula received from the Guru) or NAAM for repetition (silently or aloud) and meditation upon the Supreme Reality. The Gurmantar has been passed down to from the Guru to the Sikhs in initiation ceremonies (Amrit Sanchar). The Panth Sikh Rehat Maryada describes this:
“(o) After this the five beloved ones, all together in chorus, communicating the name of Waheguru to all who have been administered the ambrosial baptism…” (Article XXIII, Chapter XIII)

ਸਾਸ ਸਾਸ ਸਾਸ ਹੈ ਜੇਤੇ ਮੈ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮ੍-ਾਰੇ ॥ ਸਾਸੁ ਸਾਸੁ ਜਾਇ ਨਾਮੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਸੋ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਸਾਸੁ ਬਿਕਾਰੇ ॥7॥
“With as many breaths as I have, I chant the Naam, under Guru's Instructions. Each and every breath which escapes me without the Naam, that breath is useless and corrupt. ||7||” (Nat Naraayan, Ang 980, SGGS) 

Also in Chapter III of the Sikh Rehat Maryada under the heading of ‘Meditation on Naam (Divine Substance) and Scriptures’ states:

“(1) A Sikh should wake up in the ambrosial hours (three hours before the dawn), take bath and, concentrating his/her thoughts on One Immortal Being, repeat the name ‘Waheguru’ (Wondrous Destroyer of darkness).”

The Gurmantar is also referred as “Beej Mantar”, meaning the seed Mantar, which one should sow in the field of the mind and soul. Naam Japna (repeated utterance of Divine Creator’s Name, Vaheguru) is one of the three core moral principals of Sikhi, the other two being ‘Kirat Karnee’ (honest labour and living) and ‘Vand Chhakna’ (sharing one’s provisions with the needy). In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji the word “Vaheguru” (ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ) appears thirteen times and the word “Vahguru” (ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ) appears three times. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, the Tenth Nanak, used “Vaheguru” in the invocatory formula: “Ik Ounkaar Sri Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh”, beside the traditional “Ik Ounkaar Satgur Prasaad” at the beginning of some of his compositions as well as in the Sikh salutation – “Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Kee Fateh”. 

As briefly mentioned, the word “Vaheguru” is made up of two word “Vaah(e)” and “Guru”. “Vaah” or “Vaahe” is an ecstatic expression of awe and wonder. Therefore it is often translated as “wondrous” or “wonderful”. “Guru” derives from two words. “Gu” means darkness, and “Ru” (‘Roo’) means light. Therefore ‘Guru’ means that power, being, and presence, which dispels darkness and brings light, in other words ‘Enlightener’. 

Cumulatively, the name implies wonder at the Divine Light eliminating spiritual darkness. It might also imply -‘Hail the Lord whose Name eliminates spiritual darkness.’ Thus the two constituents of Vaheguru (Vaahe+Guroo) implies the state of wondrous ecstasy and offering homage to the Divine Creator Being.

The attitude of wonder and total submission at the sight of Divine Greatness is prominently visible in Sri Guru Nanak Ji when he recorded Gurbaani, for example:

ਗਗਨ ਮੈ ਥਾਲੁ ਰਵਿ ਚੰਦੁ ਦੀਪਕ ਬਨੇ ਤਾਰਿਕਾ ਮੰਡਲ ਜਨਕ ਮੋਤੀ ॥ ਧੂਪੁ ਮਲਆਨਲੋ ਪਵਣੁ ਚਵਰੋ ਕਰੇ ਸਗਲ ਬਨਰਾਇ ਫੂਲੰਤ ਜੋਤੀ ॥1॥
"In the bowl of the sky, the sun and moon are the lamps; the stars in the constellations are the pearls. The fragrance of sandalwood is the incense, the wind is the fan, and all the vegetation are flowers in offering to You, O Luminous Lord. ||1||" (Dhanaasree, Ang 663, SGGS)

ਕੇਤੇ ਪਵਣ ਪਾਣੀ ਵੈਸੰਤਰ ਕੇਤੇ ਕਾਨ ਮਹੇਸ ॥ ਕੇਤੇ ਬਰਮੇ ਘਾੜਤਿ ਘੜੀਅਹਿ ਰੂਪ ਰੰਗ ਕੇ ਵੇਸ ॥
"So many winds, waters and fires; so many Krishnas and Shivas. So many Brahmas, fashioning forms of great beauty, adorned and dressed in many colours." (Ang 7, SGGS)

ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਨਾਦ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਵੇਦ ॥
“Wondrous is the sound, wondrous is the wisdom…” (Aasa Di Vaar, Ang 463, SGGS)

Wonder and ecstasy are expressed at the cosmic order and its mystery full of Divinely appointed system. The salok mentioned above from Aasa Di Vaar concludes with: 

ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਨੇੜੈ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਦੂਰਿ ॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਦੇਖੈ ਹਾਜਰਾ ਹਜੂਰਿ ॥ ਵੇਖਿ ਵਿਡਾਣੁ ਰਹਿਆ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਬੁਝਣੁ ਪੂਰੈ ਭਾਗਿ ॥1॥
“Wonderful is closeness, wonderful is distance. How wonderful to behold the Lord, ever-present here. Beholding His wonders, I am wonder-struck. O Nanak, those who understand this are blessed with perfect destiny. ||1|| (Aasa, Ang 464, SGGS) 

Following on Guru Ji says in the next Salokh in Aasa Di Vaar:

ਭੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਪਵਣੁ ਵਹੈ ਸਦਵਾਉ ॥ ਭੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਚਲਹਿ ਲਖ ਦਰੀਆਉ ॥
"In the Lord’s fear, the wind and breezes ever blow. In the Lord’s fear, thousands of rivers flow."
(Aasa, Ang 464, SGGS)

Gurbani here expresses wonder at the cosmic ‘fear’ under which the universe operates in obedience of the Divine Law, which the Divine Creator alone is exempt from.
In Japji Sahib, and shabads throughout Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, one prominent theme and subject is the expresses wonder at the cosmic order. In the 16th Pauree (Stanza) of Japji Sahib, it conveys wonder at the limitlessness of space:

ਕੇਤਾ ਤਾਣੁ ਸੁਆਲਿਹੁ ਰੂਪੁ ॥ ਕੇਤੀ ਦਾਤਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਕੌਣੁ ਕੂਤੁ ॥ਕੀਤਾ ਪਸਾਉ ਏਕੋ ਕਵਾਉ ॥ ਤਿਸ ਤੇ ਹੋਏ ਲਖ ਦਰੀਆਉ ॥ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਕਵਣ ਕਹਾ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਵਾਰਿਆ ਨ ਜਾਵਾ ਏਕ ਵਾਰ ॥ ਜੋ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸਾਈ ਭਲੀ ਕਾਰ ॥ ਤੂ ਸਦਾ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ॥16॥

"...What power! What fascinating beauty! And what gifts! Who can know their extent? You created the vast expanse of the Universe with One Word Hundreds of thousands of rivers began to flow. How can Your Creative Potency be described? I cannot even once be a sacrifice to You. Whatever pleases You is the only good done, You, Eternal and Formless One!" ||16|| (Ang 3, SGGS) 

The17th –19th Paurees (Stanzas) of Japji Sahib, each begin with ‘Asankh’ (AsMK), meaning "Countless” is uttered in the same feeling of wonder and awe.

ਅਸੰਖ ਜਪ ਅਸੰਖ ਭਾਉ ॥ ਅਸੰਖ ਪੂਜਾ ਅਸੰਖ ਤਪ ਤਾਉ ॥
"Countless meditations, countless loves. Countless worship services, countless austere disciplines..." (Ang 3, SGGS)

The Divine Creative Being has been attributed with countless Names, for example, ‘Allah’, ‘Raam’, ‘Kudaah’, ‘Guru’, ‘Satguru’, ‘Gobind’, ‘Raam,’ ‘Nirunkaar’, ‘Gopal’etc and so on. However Gurbaani clearly states that the Creator Being has no name and is beyond our description. 

ਏਕ ਜੀਹ ਗੁਣ ਕਵਨ ਬਖਾਨੈ ॥ ਸਹਸ ਫਨੀ ਸੇਖ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਨੈ ॥ ਨਵਤਨ ਨਾਮ ਜਪੈ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਇਕੁ ਗੁਣੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਹਿ ਸੰਗਾ ॥16॥
"Even the thousand-headed serpent does not know Your limit. One may chant new names for You day and night, but even so, O God, no one can describe even one of Your Glorious Virtues. ||16||" (Maaroo, Ang 1083, SGGS)

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, the Tenth Nanak, says in Jaap Sahib: 

ਤਵ ਸਰਬ ਨਾਮ ਕਥੈ ਕਵਨ ਕਰਮ ਨਾਮ ਬਰਨਤ ਸੁਮਤਿ ॥1॥
“No one can tell all the Names of the Lord, who is called by special Name by the wise, according to His excellences and doings. ||1||”” (P. 2, Dasam Granth)

The Fourth Nanak, Guru Raam Daas Ji says:

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਅਸੰਖ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਗੁਨ ਕਥਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਹਿ ॥
"The Names of the Lord, Har, Har, are countless. The Glorious Virtues of the Lord, Har, Har, cannot be described." (Kaanrraa, Ang 1316, SGGS)

Therefore, there is no name for Vaheguru, but instead we use Vaheguru’s actions and virtues to address him and praise Him. For example ‘Hari’ means one who makes something blossom and brings life or greenery to nature. ‘Gopal’ means ‘Lord of the Universe’. Similarly, “Vaheguru” means ‘Wonderful Enlightener’ or ‘Wondrous Lord’. ‘Raam’ means “All-Pervading’. ‘Shiv’ (‘Shiva’) means ‘embodiment of goodness’ (kilAwx-srUp). 

ਸੁਰਗ ਪਇਆਲ ਮਿਰਤ ਭੂਅ ਮੰਡਲ ਸਰਬ ਸਮਾਨੋ ਏਕੈ ਓਹੀ ॥ ਸਿਵ ਸਿਵ ਕਰਤ ਸਗਲ ਕਰ ਜੋਰਹਿ ਸਰਬ ਮਇਆ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਤੇਰੀ ਦੋਹੀ ॥1॥
"In the heavenly paradise, in the nether regions of the underworld, on the planet earth and throughout the galaxies, the One Lord is pervading everywhere. Everyone calls upon You with their palms pressed together, saying, "Shiva, Shiva" (meaning ‘the Giver of goodness and peace’). O Merciful Lord and Master, everyone cries out for Your Help. ||1||" (Gaurree, Ang 207, SGGS)

ਗੁਰੂ ਸਿਖੁ ਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਏਕੋ ਗੁਰ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਚਲਾਏ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਮੰਤੁ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਦੇਵੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਿਲਣੁ ਸੁਭਾਏ ॥8॥2॥9॥
"The Guru's Sikh, and the Sikh's Guru, are one and the same; both spread the Guru's Teachings. The Mantar of Raam Naam, the Lord's Name is enshrined within the heart, O Nanak, and we merge with the Lord so easily. ||8||2||9||" (Aasa, Ang 444, SGGS)

Gurbani is given to us so that we can attain true Spiritual Understanding. For the specific purpose of Naam Jap, Guru Nanak Sahib Ji gave us a very short and sweet, a four-syllable word ‘Va-he-gu-ru’ as the Gurmantar, which is to be repeated or meditated upon day and night while eating, walking, working, standing, sitting, talking, etc. 

ਸਾਸਿ ਸਾਸਿ ਸਿਮਰਹੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ॥ ਮਨ ਅੰਤਰ ਕੀ ਉਤਰੈ ਚਿੰਦ ॥
"With each and every breath, meditate in remembrance on the Lord of the Universe, and the anxiety within your mind shall depart." (Gaurree, Ang 295, SGGS)

ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਨੇਰੈ ਹੂ ਤੇ ਨੇਰੈ ॥ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਧਿਆਇ ਗਾਇ ਗੁਨ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਦਿਨੁ ਰੈਨਿ ਸਾਝ ਸਵੇਰੈ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
"Vaheguru is the nearest of the near. Remember Him, meditate on Him, and sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord of the Universe, day and night, evening and morning. ||1||Pause||" (Devgandhaaree, Ang 530, SGGS)

Where does this one Word of Shabad come from? Although it is mentioned throughout Guru Granth Sahib Ji in various names as discussed above, the full form of this Mantar, ‘Vaheguru’, was revealed by the enlightened Bhattas (Bards) in their Bani. It was also mentioned in the writings of Bhai Gurdaas Ji, the contemporary and maternal uncle of Guru Arjan Dev Ji, who also was the scriber of the ‘Pothi Sahib’. 

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ, ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ, ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ, ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ ਕਵਲ ਨੈਨ, ਮਧੁਰ ਬੈਨ, ਕੋਟਿ ਸੈਨ ਸੰਗ ਸੋਭ, ਕਹਤ ਮਾ ਜਸੋਦ ਜਿਸਹਿ, ਦਹੀ ਭਾਤੁ ਖਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ ਦੇਖਿ ਰੂਪੁ, ਅਤਿ ਅਨੂਪੁ, ਮੋਹ ਮਹਾ ਮਗ ਭਈ, ਕਿੰਕਨੀ ਸਬਦ ਝਨਤਕਾਰ ਖੇਲੁ ਪਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ ਕਾਲ ਕਲਮ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹਾਥਿ, ਕਹਹੁ ਕਉਨੁ ਮੇਟਿ ਸਕੈ, ਈਸੁ ਬੰਮ੍ਹ, ਗ੍ਹਾਨੁ ਧ੍ਹਾਨੁ ਧਰਤ ਹੀਐ ਚਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ ਸਤਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ, ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਦਾ ਤੁਹੀ, ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ, ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ, ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ, ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥1॥6॥ 
“”Vaheguru”, “Vaheguru”, “Vaaheguru”, “Vaahe Jee-o”, Wow! Wow! O Beloved! I am a sacrifice! You are lotus-eyed, with sweet speech, exalted and embellished with millions of companions. (For me it is You who) Mother Yashoda invited and said, “O son (come), eat yoghurt and rice.” Gazing upon Your supremely beautiful form, and hearing the musical sounds of Your silver bells tinkling, (Mother Yashoda) was intoxicated with delight. (O person!) Death's pen and command are in Your hands. Tell me, who can erase it? Shiva and Brahma yearn to enshrine Your spiritual wisdom in their hearts. O Vaheguru, You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being. “Vaheguru”, “Vaheguru”, “Vaheguru”, “Vaahe Jee-o”. ||1||6||” (Ang 1402, SGGS)

ਕੀਆ ਖੇਲੁ ਬਡ ਮੇਲੁ ਤਮਾਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਭ ਰਚਨਾ ॥ ਤੂ ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਗਗਨਿ ਪਯਾਲਿ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹ੍ਹਾ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਤੇ ਮੀਠੇ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਬਚਨਾ ॥ ਮਾਨਹਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾਦਿਕ ਰੁਦ੍ਰਾਦਿਕ ਕਾਲ ਕਾ ਕਾਲੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਜਚਨਾ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਪਰਮਾਰਥੁ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਸੇਤੀ ਮਨੁ ਖਚਨਾ ॥ ਕੀਆ ਖੇਲੁ ਬਡ ਮੇਲੁ ਤਮਾਸਾ ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਭ ਰਚਨਾ ॥3॥13॥42॥
"You have formed and created this play, this great game; O “Vaheguru”, this is all Your creation. You are pervading and permeating the water, land, skies and nether regions; Your Words are sweeter than Ambrosial Nectar. Brahmas and Shivas respect and obey You. O Death of death, Formless Lord, I beg of You. By Guru's Grace, the greatest thing is obtained, and the mind is involved with the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation. You have formed and created this play, this great game. O “Vaheguru”, this is all Your making. ||3||13||42||" (Ang 1403, SGGS)

ਸੇਵਕ ਕੈ ਭਰਪੂਰ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ ਤੇਰਾ ਸਭੁ ਸਦਕਾ ॥ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਦਾ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਕਹਿ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਕੋਊ ਤੂ ਕਦ ਕਾ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਸਿਰੇ ਤੈ ਅਗਨਤ ਤਿਨ ਕਉ ਮੋਹੁ ਭਯਾ ਮਨ ਮਦ ਕਾ ॥ ਚਵਰਾਸੀਹ ਲਖ ਜੋਨਿ ਉਪਾਈ ਰਿਜਕੁ ਦੀਆ ਸਭ ਹੂ ਕਉ ਤਦ ਕਾ ॥ ਸੇਵਕ ਕੈ ਭਰਪੂਰ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ ਤੇਰਾ ਸਭੁ ਸਦਕਾ ॥1॥11॥
"Your servants are totally fulfilled, throughout the ages; O "Vaheguru", it is all You, forever. O Formless Lord God, You are eternally intact; no one can say how You came into being. You created countless Brahmas and Vishnus; their minds were intoxicated with emotional attachment. You created the 8.4 million species of beings, and provide for their sustanance. Your servants are totally fulfilled, throughout the ages; O "Vaheguru", it is all You, forever. ||1||11||" (Ang 1403, SGGS)

Throughout Gurbani, Guru Ji instructs us to meditate and chant on the ‘Guru’ (referring to God), and to praise the ‘Guru’. Therefore, the Bhatts, did not reveal a new message from Guru Nanak Sahib Ji. 

ਅਹੰ ਤੋਰੋ ਮੁਖੁ ਜੋਰੋ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਰਤ ਮਨੁ ਲੋਰੋ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਪਿਆਰੋ ਮੋਰੋ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
"Give up your ego, and turn your face to Vaheguru. Let your yearning mind call out, ""Guru, Guru"". My Beloved is the Lover of Love. ||1||Pause||" (Kaanrraa, Ang 1306, SGGS) 

ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਜਪਿ ਮੀਤ ਹਮਾਰੇ ॥ ਮੁਖ ਊਜਲ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਦਰਬਾਰੇ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
"Chant and meditate: “Guru, Guru”, O my friend. Your face shall be radiant in the Court of the Lord. ||1||Pause||" (Gaurree, Ang 190, SGGS)

ਵੇਮੁਹਤਾਜਾ ਵੇਪਰਵਾਹੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸ ਕਹਹੁ ਗੁਰ ਵਾਹੁ ॥4॥21॥
"The Lord is absolutely independent, and totally care-free; O servant Nanak, chant “Gur Vaahu” (Wondrous Guru). ||4||21||" (Aasa, Ang 376, SGGS)

For a deeper understanding of the word “Vaheguru”, we can look at its four syllables individually. These four syllables (in Gurmukhi) are "Vaavaa", "Haahaa", "Gaggaa", and "Raaraa". Guru Granth Sahib Ji reveals to us on ang (respected word for page) that these four syllables represent the Names of the One Creator Supreme Being. For example, Vaavaa represents ‘Vaasudev’, Haahaa represents ‘Hari’, Gaggaa represents ‘Gobind’, and Raaraa represents ‘Raam’. All these are different names of the same One Timeless Reality, which have been repeatedly used throughout the Gurbani; which suggests that this Mantar is not only condensed into a short and sweet form, but also very powerful! 

ਵਵੈ ਵਾਰੀ ਆਈਆ ਮੂੜੇ ਵਾਸੁਦੇਉ ਤੁਧੁ ਵੀਸਰਿਆ ॥ 
”Vavai (Vaavaa): Your turn has come, you fool, but you have forgotten Vasudev (God). This opportunity will not come again, you fool; you will fall under the power of death's messenger.” (Aasa, Ang 435, SGGS) 
ਹਾਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਬੂਝੁ ਤੂੰ ਮੂੜੇ, ਤਾ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਪੜਹਿ, ਤੇਤਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਲਾਗੈ, ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥16॥
“Hahaa: Understand the Sermon of Har (God), you fool; only then you will attain eternal peace. The more the Manmukhs (self-willed people) read, the more pain they suffer. Without the True Guru, liberation is not obtained.” (Aasa, Ang 435, SGGS). 

ਗਗੈ ਗੋਬਿਦੁ ਚਿਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਮੂੜੇ, ਗਲੀ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਵਸਾਇ ਮੂੜੇ, ਪਿਛਲੇ ਗੁਨਹ ਸਭ ਬਖਸਿ ਲਇਆ ॥15॥
“Gaggaa: Keep Gobind (God) in your mind, you fool; by mere words, no one has ever attained Him. Enshrine the Guru's feet (i.e. Gurbaani) within your heart, you fool, and all your past sins will be forgiven.” (Aasa, Ang 435, SGGS) 

ਰਾਰੈ ਰਾਮੁ ਚਿਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਮੂੜੇ, ਹਿਰਦੈ ਜਿਨ੍- ਕੈ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਿਨ੍-ੀ ਰਾਮੁ ਪਛਾਤਾ, ਨਿਰਗੁਣ ਰਾਮੁ ਤਿਨ੍-ੀ ਬੂਝਿ ਲਹਿਆ ॥17॥
”Raaraa: Centre your consciousness on Raam (God), you fool; abide with those whose hearts are filled with Him. By Guru's Grace, those who recognise Him, understand the Absolute Being.” (Aasa, Ang 435, SGGS).

Therefore joining the word letters and syllables, which form to make the word “Vaheguru” represents four Names attributed to the One Creator Supreme Being into one word, which means “Wondrous Guru” or “Wondrous Dispeller of Darkness”. Bhai Gurdaas Ji says in his poetry:

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਲੈ ਪਿਰਮ ਪਿਆਲਾ ਚੁਪ ਚਲੋਲਾ॥ 
"The Guru's word he receives is "Vaheguru", the wondrous Lord, and remains silently immersed in delight.” 
(Vaar 4, Bhai Gurdaas Ji, Contemporary of Guru Arjan Dev Ji)

Bhai Gurdaas Ji ‘re-emphasises’ Guru Nanak Sahib Ji’s Mantar, which he blessed the Sikhs with. The Mantar, which is recorded in Gurbani and also bestowed upon Sikhs by the Panj Piaare:

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਜਪ ਹਉਮੈਂ ਖੋਈ ॥ ਆਪ ਗਵਾਏ ਆਪ ਹੈ ਗੁਣ ਗੁਣੀ ਪਰੋਈ ॥13॥
"The Gurmantar is "Vaheguru", through reciting which erases egotism. Losing egotism and merging into the qualities of the supreme Lord, he himself becomes full of qualities." 
(Vaar 13, Bhai Gurdaas Ji, Contemporary of Guru Arjan Dev Ji)

Knowing the meaning of the Mantar is very helpful when one is concentrating on it. Then the person will know when they reach the goal, which the Mantar is supposed to produce within them. The word ‘Vaheguru’ (Wondrous Lord) implies that the Mantar is essentially meant for praising the One Creator Supreme Being through chanting, Keertan, or Naam Simran with each and every swaas (life breaths) as taught by the Guru-roop Panj Piaare.

ਹਮਰੇ ਜਗਜੀਵਨ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਊਤਮੁ ਰਿਦ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਭਾਇਓ ਗੁਰਿ ਮੰਤੁ ਦੀਓ ਹਰਿ ਕਾਨ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
“The Lord, the Life of the World, is my Breath of Life. The Lofty and Exalted Lord became pleasing to my heart and my inner being, when the Guru breathed the Mantra of the Lord into my ears. ||1||Pause||” (Prabhaatee, Ang 1335, SGGS)

ਬੀਜ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਗਾਉ ॥ ਆਗੈ ਮਿਲੀ ਨਿਥਾਵੇ ਥਾਉ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਕੀ ਚਰਣੀ ਲਾਗੁ ॥ ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਕਾ ਸੋਇਆ ਜਾਗੁ ॥1॥
"Sing the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises, and the Beej Mantra, the Seed Mantra. Even the homeless find a home in the world hereafter. Fall at the feet of the Perfect Guru; you have slept for so many incarnations. Wake up! ||1||" (Raamkalee, Ang 891, SGGS)

A spiritual Christian girl used to study with me at Sixth Form (grade). She said every time she sees a beautiful flower or tree she praises the God by saying “You are Wonderful! You are Amazing! Wonderful Lord”. I smiled and said that is wonderful to hear. I explained that similarly Sikhs are instructed by our Guru to say ‘Vaheguru’. Explaining what Vaheguru meant she smiled and realised the beauty of Word. ‘Vaheguru’ being the Gurmantar of the Sikhs, there is no doubt about this. A Sikh day and night remains in the awe and wonder of the Dispeller of darkness, the Guru, and chants ‘Vaa-He-Gu-Roo’ with each breath realising the beauty of the Lord within and around them. The Guru’s instructions are reemphasised in the Rehatnaama of Bhai Desa Singh Ji, a contemporary of Guru Gobind Singh Ji:

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਨਿਤ ਬਚਨ ਉਚਾਰੇ ॥ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੋ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਧਾਰੈ ॥
“He/she repeats the True Name of 'Vaheguru' daily. He/she enshrines Vaheguru in his heart.” (Rehatnaama Bhai Desa Singh)

Manvir Singh Khalsa can be reached at manvir_singh_khalsa@yahoo.co.uk


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## Archived_member2 (Dec 11, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Soul Jyot Jee!

I could not find the suggestion in this article that 'The sound now is Waheguru, not Raam.'
Please express your personal views also. Views from the well-read participants may help many. Thanks.

Balbir Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 12, 2006)

Gurfateh

Nirmalas still may use Ram as Guru Mantra.Founder of Nanaksar was givne the same but he later spread Wahiguru.

But Ra in Wahiguru is from Ram(see Var of Bhai Gurdass).Akal is Aname(no single name as all name are of Akal).


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## Archived_member2 (Dec 12, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Vijaydeep Singh Jee!

Quote "Nirmalas still may use Ram as Guru Mantra."
Does the sound Raam depend and wait for a person or a group of people?

Quote "Founder of Nanaksar was givne the same but he later spread Wahiguru."
My curiosity is to know what they did with the sound Raam they got once through Gurdev.

Gurdev is singing.
"gur mantar sabad sach deetaa raam." SGGS Ang 576-18 Guru Arjan Dev Jee.
The Guru has given the Mantra of the Shabad, the True Word Raam.
I could not find one instance when Gurdev said something like that about the word Waheguru.

Quote "But Ra in Wahiguru is from Ram(see Var of Bhai Gurdass)."
Is Waheguru the result of the excessive desire to acquire God as Waheguru that contains more letters than Raam?

Quote "Akal is Aname(no single name as all name are of Akal)."
Is this the reason ego feels like God in everyone?

Please explain. 


Balbir Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 13, 2006)

Balbir Singh said:


> Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
> Dear all and Vijaydeep Singh Jee!
> 
> Quote "Nirmalas still may use Ram as Guru Mantra."
> ...


 Answer 1. No but one grop of persons can be used as model or say group,who actualy used this way and got the result.

Answer 2-They did Abhyas perhaps on Ram Naam and got enlightenment that they reached the status of one ,who gave them NaamDaan and from that status they gace another name of Raam,ie Wahiguru.May be he reached further ahead of one who gave him Naam Daan and and better Mantra was givne.(all is anyway relative).

Answer 3-
ਗੁਰਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੁ ਦੀਤਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ 
गुरि मंत्रु सबदु सचु दीता राम ॥ 
gur mantar sabad sach deetaa raam. 
the Guru has given the Mantra of the Shabad, the True Word of God. 


Here we can also understand that Ram(absorbed) has givne Guru  Mantra of Truth videverse or Sabad.

Ram could be subject then object.

ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਛੰਤ ਘਰੁ ੪ 
रागु वडहंसु महला ५ छंत घरु ४ 
raag vad-hans mehlaa 5 chhant ghar 4 
Raag Wadahans, Fifth Mehl, Chhant, Fourth House: 

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ 
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥ 
ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad. 
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: 

ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਲਧਾ ਜੀ ਰਾਮੁ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ 
गुर मिलि लधा जी रामु पिआरा राम ॥ 
gur mil laDhaa jee raam pi-aaraa raam. 
Meeting with the Guru, I have found my Beloved Lord God. 

ਇਹੁ ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਦਿਤੜਾ ਵਾਰੋ ਵਾਰਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ 
इहु तनु मनु दितड़ा वारो वारा राम ॥ 
ih tan man dit-rhaa vaaro vaaraa raam. 
I have made this body and mind a sacrifice, a sacrificial offering to my Lord. 

ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਦਿਤਾ ਭਵਜਲੁ ਜਿਤਾ ਚੂਕੀ ਕਾਂਣਿ ਜਮਾਣੀ ॥ 
तनु मनु दिता भवजलु जिता चूकी कांणि जमाणी ॥ 
tan man ditaa bhavjal jitaa chookee kaaNn jamaanee. 
Dedicating my body and mind, I have crossed over the terrifying world-ocean, and shaken off the fear of death. 

ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਥੀਆ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਆ ਰਹਿਆ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣੀ ॥ 
असथिरु थीआ अम्रितु पीआ रहिआ आवण जाणी ॥ 
asthir thee-aa amrit pee-aa rahi-aa aavan jaanee. 
Drinking in the Ambrosial Nectar, I have become immortal; my comings and goings have ceased. 

ਸੋ ਘਰੁ ਲਧਾ ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਧਾ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰਾ ॥ 
सो घरु लधा सहजि समधा हरि का नामु अधारा ॥ 
so ghar laDhaa sahj samDhaa har kaa naam aDhaaraa. 
I have found that home, of celestial Samaadhi; the Name of the Lord is my only Support. 

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੁਖਿ ਮਾਣੇ ਰਲੀਆਂ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਕੰਉ ਨਮਸਕਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ 
कहु नानक सुखि माणे रलीआं गुर पूरे कंउ नमसकारा ॥१॥ 
kaho naanak sukh maanay ralee-aaN gur pooray kaN-u namaskaaraa. ||1|| 
Says Nanak, I enjoy peace and pleasure; I bow in reverence to the Perfect Guru. ||1|| 

ਸੁਣਿ ਸਜਣ ਜੀ ਮੈਡੜੇ ਮੀਤਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ 
सुणि सजण जी मैडड़े मीता राम ॥ 
sun sajan jee maidrhay meetaa raam. 
Listen, O my friend and companion - 

ਗੁਰਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੁ ਦੀਤਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ 
गुरि मंत्रु सबदु सचु दीता राम ॥ 
gur mantar sabad sach deetaa raam. 
the Guru has given the Mantra of the Shabad, the True Word of God. 

ਸਚੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਮੰਗਲੁ ਗਾਇਆ ਚੂਕੇ ਮਨਹੁ ਅਦੇਸਾ ॥ 
सचु सबदु धिआइआ मंगलु गाइआ चूके मनहु अदेसा ॥ 
sach sabad Dhi-aa-i-aa mangal gaa-i-aa chookay manhu adaysaa. 
Meditating on this True Shabad, I sing the songs of joy, and my mind is rid of anxiety. 

ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਕਤਹਿ ਨ ਜਾਇਆ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਸੰਗਿ ਬੈਸਾ ॥ 
सो प्रभु पाइआ कतहि न जाइआ सदा सदा संगि बैसा ॥ 
so parabh paa-i-aa kateh na jaa-i-aa sadaa sadaa sang baisaa. 
I have found God, who never leaves; forever and ever, He sits with me. 

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜੀ ਭਾਣਾ ਸਚਾ ਮਾਣਾ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਸਹਜੇ ਦੀਤਾ ॥ 
प्रभ जी भाणा सचा माणा प्रभि हरि धनु सहजे दीता ॥ 
parabh jee bhaanaa sachaa maanaa parabh har Dhan sehjay deetaa. 
One who is pleasing to God receives true honor. The Lord God blesses him with wealth. 

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸੁ ਜਨ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਦਾਨੁ ਸਭਨੀ ਹੈ ਲੀਤਾ ॥੨॥ 
कहु नानक तिसु जन बलिहारी तेरा दानु सभनी है लीता ॥२॥ 
kaho naanak tis jan balihaaree tayraa daan sabhnee hai leetaa. ||2|| 
Says Nanak, I am a sacrifice to such a humble being. O Lord, You bless all with Your bountiful blessings. ||2|| 


Ultimate Guru is Akal and Guru Panth is alo nothing wihtout Akal Guru.


Answer 4-Well Wahiguru has Wasudev(Living/residing God)Hari(Sustainer),Gobind(source of senses)Ram(absorbed).Som more info is in there then just Ram but both is same.

Answer-5,When Guru is evrywhere then no self of ego stays.

Akal Bless.


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## Archived_member2 (Dec 14, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

Quote "Does the sound Raam depend and wait for a person or a group of people?
Answer 1. No but one grop of persons can be used as model or say group,who actualy used this way and got the result."

I thought the enlightened suggested inner journey with the Gurshabad to each individual. Surprise.  Many are working hard building a group out of One. I do not know if enlightenments sometimes shower on a group too.

Quote "My curiosity is to know what they did with the sound Raam they got once through Gurdev.
Answer 2-They did Abhyas perhaps on Ram Naam and got enlightenment that they reached the status of one ,who gave them NaamDaan and from that status they gace another name of Raam,ie Wahiguru.May be he reached further ahead of one who gave him Naam Daan and and better Mantra was givne.(all is anyway relative)."

Some may be knowing it better that Waheguru is another name of Raam that leads further ahead and it is the better Mantra.

Quote "Here we can also understand that Ram(absorbed) has givne Guru Mantra of Truth videverse or Sabad."
Did Gurdev say once that Raam gives Guru Mantra?

Quote "Ram could be subject then object."
Should we guess further?

Quote "Ultimate Guru is Akal and Guru Panth is alo nothing wihtout Akal Guru."
Please pray for the whole Qaom after coming out of Samaadhi that they are blessed with Akal Guru ultimately.

Quote "Is Waheguru the result of the excessive desire to acquire God as Waheguru that contains more letters than Raam?
Answer 4-Well Wahiguru has Wasudev(Living/residing God)Hari(Sustainer),Gobind(source of senses)Ram(absorbed).Som more info is in there then just Ram but both is same."
Thanks for the new meanings of Wahiguru. I always felt that Wahiguru is richer than what I possess owning Him in mind.

Quote "Is this the reason ego feels like God in everyone?
Answer-5,When Guru is evrywhere then no self of ego stays."
That sounds unusual, having selfless ego and everywhere Guru.

Thanks for the wonderful Shabad from Gurdev. Unfortunately I missed Raam in the translation of the great Guru's Vaak "sun sajan jee maidrhay meetaa raam."

**************

There are many experienced Sikhs. Can someone please explain what they did with the sound Raam by replacing it with the sound Waheguru? I will be thankful.


Balbir Singh


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## satvin (Dec 16, 2006)

WGJKK WGJKF
Why we are into a debate? one will get nothing by merely chanting either Raam or Waheguru with absense of Faith. and if one have Faith speak Raam or Waheguru.. hardly matters...
I think we should use our time in good work rather than discussing Raam or Waheguru. I will remain Satvin even somebody call me XYZ. If the smallest person like me shows no changes by changing in name than HOW CAN IT EFFECT HIM??

Gur Fateh
Satvin


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## Archived_member2 (Dec 16, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Satvin Jee!

Quote "one will get nothing by merely chanting either Raam or Waheguru with absense of Faith."
May I ask if someone has received a certificate chanting Raam or Waheguru with present of Faith?

Quote "and if one have Faith speak Raam or Waheguru.. hardly matters..."
I do not know where Gurdev has suggested the Sikh to have faith. This is what I have heard for the first time. Speak Raam or Waheguru.  It hardly matters.

Quote "I think we should use our time in good work rather than discussing Raam or Waheguru."
What is that good work for a short-sighted person like me? Please suggest me.

Quote "I will remain Satvin even somebody call me XYZ."
I feel we all are changing like our Sahib is neet Navaa.

Quote "If the smallest person like me shows no changes by changing in name than HOW CAN IT EFFECT HIM??"
My Gurdev sings a lot about the results by receiving a new Name, Naam. My name was earlier different. Everything began changing since I got the true Naam.

**************

Thanks for your teach-in post on Sikh Sangat dot com. As student I am available on Sikh philosophy dot net these days. 


Balbir Singh


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## agyanisingh (Dec 25, 2006)

Quote "May I ask if someone has received a certificate chanting Raam or Waheguru with present of Faith?"

Having Faith is personal matter, Chanting is personal matter nothing to do with the certificate. It means you will question Guru Nanak also about certificate of Faith by however he achieved. 
Satvin ji told that if you have faith first. Chanting and Speaking Waheguru or Raam is secondary. One can chant one can meditate to GOD. There are several ways to get.

Quote "I do not know where Gurdev has suggested the Sikh to have faith".
Did Guru Nanak Saw GOD? No. But it is his FAITH in GOD that he finds every creation as GOD's Creation. You are the person who saw waves only and telling that you had visited the SEA. To See the SEA you have to dive in. 
To understand the Baani you have to understand the deep meaning. if you read it only you will never understand it. 

"This is what I have heard for the first time. Speak Raam or Waheguru. It hardly matters."
Do you know what Guru Nanak Spoke to achieve Naam??? Did He told you? Raam Word is given by Human. Waheguru word is Given by Human. Does any body saw GOD? So, it hardly matters dear balbir singh that what ever we should call, if have to have faith in GOD first. 

Quote "What is that good work for a short-sighted person like me? Please suggest me."

Better start reading Japji Sahib and start understanding. Please do not cross the line you did not understand it. read line by line and try to understand it with the reference. if feels any problem be in touch. 

"My Gurdev sings a lot about the results by receiving a new Name, Naam. My name was earlier different. Everything began changing since I got the true Naam."

The day you get the true Naam all your doubts will be cleared and you will stop asking silly questions to various forums. Also the person who is in great ego asks Too many questions. not to get the answers but to show his Agyan.

Sat Sri Akal


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## jasbirsingh (Dec 25, 2006)

I am very much confused ,why only raam why not hari or some other name.or why not allah or rahim.we r not intrested in fruitful things.do u respond ur child if he/she calls u naddy instead of daddy. do we help our child while he/she is crying without saying anything specific wether mummy or daddy.think about it    .remember u r talking about the akal purakh almighty.
guru fateh


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## Archived_member2 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and agyanisingh Jee!

Meeting people again is pleasant. 

Quote "It means you will question Guru Nanak also about certificate of Faith by however he achieved."
It is not possible because Guru Naanak Dev Jee did not suggest anybody to have faith. The Gurus live with truth not with faith. Gurdev also suggested us to realize Truth through Naam Simran. Please provide a reference from the Gurus where they asked Sikhs to have faith. I will be thankful.

Quote "Satvin ji told that if you have faith first. Chanting and Speaking Waheguru or Raam is secondary."
In my view, something important is missing here.

Quote "Did Guru Nanak Saw GOD? No."
Strange what kind of certificates people are giving to their Gurus.

Quote "You are the person who saw waves only and telling that you had visited the SEA."
Please do not spend all your certificates. Such doing does not drop agyaantaa.

Quote "To understand the Baani you have to understand the deep meaning. if you read it only you will never understand it."
Thanks for the advice. Please let me learn some more Gurmukhee first.

Quote "Do you know what Guru Nanak Spoke to achieve Naam??? Did He told you?"
People, getting curious in others, often forget their way.

Quote "Raam Word is given by Human. Waheguru word is Given by Human."
I have never tried to measure the height of agyaan.

Quote "Does any body saw GOD?"
Gurdev says that God and agyaan do not exist together.

Quote "Also the person who is in great ego asks Too many questions. not to get the answers but to show his Agyan."
Thanks for asking four questions in this post and writing six question marks.

**************

Quote from Jasbir Singh Jee "I am very much confused ,why only raam why not hari or some other name.or why not allah or rahim.we r not intrested in fruitful things."
I feel true Naam Simran is the answer.

Quote "do u respond ur child if he/she calls u naddy instead of daddy. do we help our child while he/she is crying without saying anything specific wether mummy or daddy.think about it ."
God gives all his children for what they cry. For example, God gives agyaanee more agyaan when he cries for it. God does not leave anybody thirsty or hungry.

Quote "remember u r talking about the akal purakh almighty."
You may be knowing it. I do not know.

**************

Please say something about this. What did they do with the adored sound Raam that the Gurus received from God by replacing it with the sound Waheguru? I will be thankful.


Balbir Singh


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## agyanisingh (Dec 26, 2006)

Balbir singh

you said you have to learn Gurumukhee first. Kindly do that .. Atlease you should start from somewhere.. just by asking questions you will land nowhere.


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## vaapaaraa (Dec 29, 2006)

I used to recite ram, and then I thought I had my doubts about that this is a name of ram ( son of Dasrath) in ramayana/ the hindus recite ram remembering that ram. 

But Ram is a name of God, even before ramayana or that epic came in existence. 

I came upon a line in Gurbani one day, which cleared all my doubt about reciting ram.

Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord's Name, 'Raam'. This is something to consider.

Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. ||190||

Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction.

One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. ||191||


The hindus or others they do recite raam thinking of dasrat's son. but Sikhs recite Raam thinking of the Lord, I belive Raam means also "all Pervading bliss"

Waheguru is superior mantra , it does not replace Raam, but it is more effective and supreme, there already previous posts saying the supremacy of it.


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## Archived_member2 (Dec 29, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Naam_jap Jee!

Thanks for a good post. Only the last sentence is not clear to me. 
Quote "Waheguru is superior mantra , it does not replace Raam, but it is more effective and supreme, there already previous posts saying the supremacy of it."
My Gurus never said something like that. How can one come to such conclusion? I am not sure if previous posts are from whose Gurus. Please elaborate it.


Balbir Singh


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## Lionchild (Dec 29, 2006)

satvin said:


> WGJKK WGJKF
> Why we are into a debate? one will get nothing by merely chanting either Raam or Waheguru with absense of Faith. and if one have Faith speak Raam or Waheguru.. hardly matters...
> I think we should use our time in good work rather than discussing Raam or Waheguru. I will remain Satvin even somebody call me XYZ. If the smallest person like me shows no changes by changing in name than HOW CAN IT EFFECT HIM??
> 
> ...



BTW, what about other languages, this debate does not even make any sense for other people who speak other than gurmakhi.

Why is sikhi so polarized????


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## vaapaaraa (Dec 29, 2006)

There are several reasons why I came to the conclusion that Waheguru mantra is more superior then Ram.

Baba Nand Singh ji has said, Blessing of Sri Guru Granth Sahib is supreme and He advised everyone to invoke that blessing by completing one path of Sri Guru Granth Sahib in a month in the following manner:

Complete 80 Malas daily of Gur Mantar 'Waheguru'
Complete 160 Malas daily of Ram (Nam) / Or Allah

Now you see it takes less effort to get same fruit by reciting Waheguru .

The mantra waheguru has been mentioned in the Vedas, but noone capable has ever been able to give it till Guru Nanak Dev ji has given this to sikhs as the gurmantra. The whole essence of all the four vedas is that the there is nothing higher then rememberance of God, through God's name. In Sukhmani Sahib it says a lot about the significance of the naam simran, for example you can cut your body into peices and offer it to the lord, but still it is not equal to even one moment of rememberance of Lord's naam.

In the Se Kinehiya Biography, it is written,  an ancient hindu rishi Vyas (I believe, reciter of Bhagavad Gita) once visited Baba Harnaam Singh Ji, and said that "we were not blessed with this bliss in our times, this blissful gurbani Guru Nanak Dev ji has given his sikhs, but sikhs are not taking benefit of it"

If you listen to Giani Thakur Singh ji's, Jap Ji Sahib katha tape, he also says, that Ik OngKaar originated from Waheguru (Word/Mantra). Now this knowledge has been passed through Sant Gurbachan Singh ji and previous Jathedars who were all Brahmgianis 

Bhai Gurdas ji has said also the composition of Waheguru Mantra, reciting it the Lord of all the four ages is remembered as each syllable corresponds to one of the four ages. Plus it also means the Wonderful Lord and fills us with wonder.

Sant Maskeen has said too from his personal experience that "Waheguru mantra is more effective then other ones like Ram, Hari and it takes lesser effort"

Also I like to quote the following from the introduction in "Vol 2, Translation of Guru Granth Sahib ji" by Dr. Gopal Singh 

"It is interesting to recall that not long ago, when Ramakrishna Paramhansa, the modern Hindu Savant, was at his most critical stage of theophanic development, it was a Sikh ascetic Udasi Totapuri, who imparted the Paramhansa, the Sikh esoteric instruction efficacious for removing impediments on the spiritual path, and that is why the most illustrious Chela/disciple of the Paramhansa, Swami Vivekanand, so often uttered and introduced into his writings, the sikh mystic formula, Vaheguru"

I personally also feel its so easy to remember Vaheguru, on the inhale in the mind say/remember Vaahe and on the exhale remember/say Guru mentally.
Waheguru, there is no difference in the Guru and the Lord, one and the same. 

Waheguru is the key , the Guru, to open the door of the Lord.  When reciting Raam you do remember the Lord, but not as the Guru.  In Vaheguru, wonderful Guru, this fills you with wonder, and in total awe of the Guru, your ego vanishes as insignificant.

Now though how can you think of the wonder, when you do not know how wonderful the Guru/God is??

Through the mool mantra or the root mantra, It tells you the description, if you ever have deeply thought over/contemplated deeply over the indivudual words and meanings in the mool mantra, you will be naturally filled with awe. you can have a " mental form" of the formless Lord through the words of the mool mantra. This will become very very subtle and fills with awe and bliss.

In the last, I will tell that by mere recitation of Waheguru or Raam will lead nowhere. Through Guru ji's grace one is blessed to remember the lord with every recitation of Waheguru.


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## Archived_member2 (Dec 29, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Naam_jap Jee!

Thanks for many references from Baba Nand Singh Jee, Kinehiya Biography, Giani Thakur Singh Ji's Jap Ji Sahib katha tape, Sant Maskeen Jee, Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji and previous Jathedars who were all Brahmgianis, according to some.
May I ask if Baba Nand Singh Jee ever suggested the material, size and number of beads in Mala.?

You also wrote "The mantra waheguru has been mentioned in the Vedas, but noone capable has ever been able to give it till Guru Nanak Dev ji has given this to sikhs as the gurmantra."
Please provide a reference where Guru Nanak Dev Jee gave Mantra Waheguru to Sikhs as the Gurmantra. I will be grateful.

Quote "If you listen to Giani Thakur Singh ji's, Jap Ji Sahib katha tape, he also says, that Ik OngKaar originated from Waheguru (Word/Mantra). Now this knowledge has been passed through Sant Gurbachan Singh ji and previous Jathedars who were all Brahmgianis."
I am surprised why Gurdev did not mention this once. 

Quote "In the last, I will tell that by mere recitation of Waheguru or Raam will lead nowhere. Through Guru ji's grace one is blessed to remember the lord with every recitation of Waheguru."
Have I understood it correctly? Most of the people recite Waheguru or Raam without God's Grace. 

I feel everybody recites Waheguru or Raam by the Grace of God alone.


Balbir Singh


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## vaapaaraa (Dec 30, 2006)

Balbir Singh said:


> Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
> May I ask if Baba Nand Singh Jee ever suggested the material, size and number of beads in Mala.?


Its a rosary mala of 108 beads, Please take a look at this page 
Philosophy and Maryada - Dargahi Ticket



Balbir Singh said:


> You also wrote "The mantra waheguru has been mentioned in the Vedas, but noone capable has ever been able to give it till Guru Nanak Dev ji has given this to sikhs as the gurmantra."
> Please provide a reference where Guru Nanak Dev Jee gave Mantra Waheguru to Sikhs as the Gurmantra. I will be grateful.


Waheguru is the Gurmantra, from the Vaaran of Bhai Gurdas ji, the scribe of Guru Arjan Dev ji.

vaahiguroo guroo ma(n)thr hai jap houmai(n) khoee||
Guru-manta is Vahiguru, whose recitation erases egotism.

Vaaran Bhai Gurdas :Vaar1Pauri49:SearchGurbani.com
Vaaran Bhai Gurdas :Vaar12Pauri17:SearchGurbani.com
Vaaran Bhai Gurdas :Vaar13Pauri2:SearchGurbani.com

Bhai is a title Guru Arjan Dev ji gave to Gurdas ji, Bhai Gurdas ji is the interpretor of the teachings of the Guru, so what Bhai Gurdas ji writes can only be true, Guru Arjan Dev ji is Guru Nanak Dev ji is waheguru, the formless lord.




> "If you listen to Giani Thakur Singh ji's, Jap Ji Sahib katha tape, he also says, that Ik OngKaar originated from Waheguru (Word/Mantra). Now this knowledge has been passed through Sant Gurbachan Singh ji and previous Jathedars who were all Brahmgianis."
> I am surprised why Gurdev did not mention this once.



There are so many things you will be more surprised when you listen to the 
katha of "Waheguru Gurmantr hai" 
G U R M A T V E E C H A R . C O M - Giani Thakur Singh Ji (Damdami Taksal wale) Katha



> "In the last, I will tell that by mere recitation of Waheguru or Raam will lead nowhere. Through Guru ji's grace one is blessed to remember the lord with every recitation of Waheguru."
> Have I understood it correctly? Most of the people recite Waheguru or Raam without God's Grace.
> 
> Balbir Singh




It is through God's grace alone that we do what we do


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## Archived_member2 (Dec 30, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Naam_jap Jee!

The clarification is given "Waheguru is the Gurmantra, from the Vaaran of Bhai Gurdas ji, the scribe of Guru Arjan Dev ji."
May I ask why the shift?

Quote "Bhai Gurdas ji is the interpretor of the teachings of the Guru,"
Surprise, the Guru needs the interpreter that also for the same language.

Quote "Guru Arjan Dev ji is Guru Nanak Dev ji is waheguru, the formless lord."
Please provide a reference direct from the Gurus and their Hymns where they have said so.

Quote "There are so many things you will be more surprised when you listen to the katha of "Waheguru Gurmantr hai."
That is right. I am very surprised listening this Kathaa from Giani Thakur Singh Jee (Damdami Taksal Wale). He spoke very long about Waheguru and Bhai Gurdas Jee. Yet he could not convince that the Gurus ever used the word 'Waheguru' as Gurmantar or suggested it.
Sometimes a question comes in my mind. What happens with people who practice things that Gurdev never suggested?

Quote "It is through God's grace alone that we do what we do."
That is great recognition. One is thankful for his ignorance too when he recognizes it as God's Grace.

**************

I am listening.  The sound of Raam being transmitted through the Sat Guru. While some, ignorant are busy replacing it.


Balbir Singh


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## kaur-1 (Dec 30, 2006)

Balbir Singh said:


> Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
> Dear all and Naam_jap Jee!
> 
> 
> ...



************** *Waheguroo* ji Ka Khalsa *Waheguroo* ji Ki fateh *******

You may think that you are listening. But have you ever said to yourself that you might not be?.

"Ignorant" (you put it) or not, but I for one will still keep on using the divine name *WAHEGUROO*.


cqurweI isAwxpw ikqY kwim n AweIAY ]
      chath*u*r*aa**ee* s*i**aa*nap*aa* k*i*th*ai* k*aa*m n *aa**ee**ai* ||
 _Cunning and cleverness are of no use._
 
quTw swihbu jo dyvY soeI suKu pweIAY ]3]
      th*u*t(h)*aa* s*aa*h*i*b j*o* dh*ae*v*ai* s*o**ee* s*u*kh p*aa**ee**ai* ||3||
 _That which the Lord Master gives, by the Pleasure of His Will - that is pleasing to me. ||3||

*{*_*Raag Aasaa                                         on Pannaa 396}


* 
At the end of the day, do what you feel comfortable with. Use *RAAM* if you feel comfortable saying it.


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## Archived_member2 (Dec 30, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Kaur-1 Jee!

Quote "You may think that you are listening. But have you ever said to yourself that you might not be?."
Strange, have you never heard Gurdev singing Raam and suggesting all to do the same? It is surprising. People go on repeating 'Waheguru' following pseudo preachers discarding all Gurshabads direct from the Gurus.

Quote "'Ignorant' (you put it) or not, but I for one will still keep on using the divine name WAHEGUROO."
Everybody has the choice of doing what the Guru suggests, or their cult Baabaas. Please go on with whatever one prefers but not at the cost of rejecting the Gurshabad Raam.

Thanks for the wonderful reference from Gurdev 
quTw swihbu jo dyvY soeI suKu pweIAY ]3]
"tuthaa saahib jo dayvai so-ee sukh paa-ee-ai." SGGS Ang 396-16
Happy Master whatever gives.  We receive that joy.

Happy Master has given the Gurshabad Raam. Strange people are seeking joy in the word 'Waheguru' from business Baabaas of a religious Bazaar.


Balbir Singh


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## kaur-1 (Dec 30, 2006)

Balbir Singh said:


> Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
> Dear all and Kaur-1 Jee!
> 
> Quote "You may think that you are listening. But have you ever said to yourself that you might not be?."
> ...



Like I said if you want to say Raam..Raam then its up you. I prefer to use the "Waheguroo Satnam" Gurmantar. This means Wonderful Wondorus God , The True name The Eternal Name The Truth.Why dont you try it out. It might have some good effect on you.

I rather like Bhai Gurdas ji's explaination of the origins of waheguroo gurmantar. 

As to your last comment, I have not come across any "business Baabaas of a religious bazaar" selling the joys of waheguroo.  What a warped and odd comment of yours I must say.! Weird..:crazy:


As the original post is re: "Raam", have you actually HEARD any kirtanees substituting the word raam for waheguroo in a shabad kirtan? *NO..*




cqurweI isAwxpw ikqY kwim n AweIAY ]
      chath*u*r*aa**ee* s*i**aa*nap*aa* k*i*th*ai* k*aa*m n *aa**ee**ai* ||
 _Cunning and cleverness are of no use.


_


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## vaapaaraa (Dec 30, 2006)

At the end of the day, do what you feel comfortable with. Use Raam if you feel comfortable saying it. The purpose is for remembrance.


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## Archived_member2 (Dec 30, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

Quote from Kaur-1 Jee "Like I said if you want to say Raam..Raam then its up you. I prefer to use the "Waheguroo Satnam" Gurmantar."
It has never worked with anybody. It will also never work in the future. Ego may try any word. 

Quote "As the original post is re: "Raam", have you actually HEARD any kirtanees substituting the word raam for waheguroo in a shabad kirtan? NO.."
Thank God. The day Keertaniaas will replace Raam.  Sikhi will go totally. I want to know why chatur Preachers and si-aanay Kathaakaars are replacing Raam with 'Waheguru'.

Gurdev has rightly said.
*cqurweI isAwxpw ikqY kwim n AweIAY ]* 
"chaturaa-ee si-aanpaa kitai kaam na aa-ee-ai." SGGS Ang 396-16
Cunningness, cleverness nowhere has helped.

**************

Quote from Naam_jap Jee "In the same way, Our Guru ji will not tell us to sing his praises, waheguru."
The Praises flow naturally after they realize the result of true Naam Simran. One receives the True Naam through the Satguru.
Shabads received from the Baabaas lead us to where most people are today.

Quote "Guru Nanak Sahib ji also said to mardana "Chant Vahiguroo and follow me on the water" But Mardana did not listen and instantly he drowned. Mardana cried for help, and Guru Nanak Sahib ji said "Mardana Chant Vahiguroo", and as soon mardana did, he instantly started walking on the water."
No Guru has ever written any story about miracles from the previous Gurus. This is surely a production of business Baabaas.

Quote "At the end of the day, do what you feel comfortable with. Use RAAM if you feel comfortable saying it. The purpose is for remembrance."
The world will be different when everybody can do Simran without The Sat Guru.

Quote "As to your other comment, I also have not come across any "business Baabaas of a religious bazaar" selling the joys of waheguroo."
Often they are uploading lectures on Internet.


Balbir Singh


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## vaapaaraa (Dec 30, 2006)

Balbir Singh said:


> Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
> Dear all and Naam_jap Jee!
> 
> The clarification is given "Waheguru is the Gurmantra, from the Vaaran of Bhai Gurdas ji, the scribe of Guru Arjan Dev ji."
> May I ask why the shift?



For example, A proud king will ask everyone to sing his praises, because he is filled with pride of his kingdom. 

But our Guru has not said to sing his praises, waheguru. 
but his gursikhs has realized this. Bhai Gurdas ji was given the title "Bhai". This is a very high title, meaning an equal Brother of the Guru. 



> I am listening.  The sound of Raam being transmitted through the Sat Guru. While some, ignorant are busy replacing it.



Raam and Vahiguroo are both names and praises of God. 
Allah which means "is the only God"
Hari - which means illumined, absolute
Raam which means all pervading

Now I think you understand that no name can be replaced with another. They are all names to sing his praises. but Waheguru has given us another name , that is Satinaam, This is the True Name, what this means is the "name of God" is forever existing, is eternal, is forever true. That's why you see so much emphasis on reciting Satinaam Vahiguroo together. 

Vahiguroo is the rememberance of the Lord as the Guru, who comes to merge us back in the all pervading oneness that is ownself. No difference in you and me. It is a praise of the wondrous Guru. Now it is very difficult to meditate on the formless Lord, thats why whenever you  say Vahiguroo, think of Vahiguroo as form of the Guru, and this is simran, when with every recitation you remember.

The Guru does not have a body. Never had any body, The body of our Guru, the physical body is not the absolute form of the Guru, The absolute form is the gurbani. If you read Sidh Ghost, you will see that Guru Nanak Dev ji has said, when he was asked "who is your Guru? "

He said the shabad is the Guru, and consciousness is the disciple. Now when you read japji Sahib, you come across the line. Sunai , meaning listening, the consciousness within you is the real disciple, and when you listen to the Shabad of the Jap ji Sahib,when you contemplate it, when you merge it in your consciousness, this is sunai, that shabad is the Guru. eternal Guru


Now if you understand, before Guru Nanak Dev ji came to spread the glory of the true one, the shabad was the Guru, and after Guru Gobind Singh ji left the world, the shabad is the Guru. 

So then why not praise the Lord in the form of the Guru , who has given us so much, Vahiguroo.


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## vaapaaraa (Dec 30, 2006)

> Quote from Kaur-1 Jee "Like I said if you want to say Raam..Raam then its up you. I prefer to use the "Waheguroo Satnam" Gurmantar."
> It has never worked with anybody. It will also never work in the future. Ego may try any word.


Balbir Singh ji, when i remember Vahiguroo and do simran, and do meditation, i get lot of joy and bliss, and the problem with this is that it is so much, that I also want my fellow brothers to enjoy this, In a way I feel guilty to have it all alone and not think of others. so thats why Im saying, praise the Guru, Vahiguroo



> "As the original post is re: "Raam", have you actually HEARD any kirtanees substituting the word raam for waheguroo in a shabad kirtan? NO.."
> Thank God. The day Keertaniaas will replace Raam.  Sikhi will go totally. I want to know why chatur Preachers and si-aanay Kathaakaars are replacing Raam with 'Waheguru'.


please read previous post why it cannot be replaced.. 



> from Naam_jap Jee "In the same way, Our Guru ji will not tell us to sing his praises, waheguru."
> The Praises flow naturally after they realize the result of true Naam Simran. One receives the True Naam through the Satguru.
> Shabads received from the Baabaas lead us to where most people are today.



Yes I totally agree, the praises automatically start flowing, when you realize the great one is sitting inside you, without even your knowledge and controlling everything.

I know there are some fake babas, those are not to be followed, they ask you to bow in front of them, obviously, just as they are true Gursikhs , there are false gursikhs.




> "Guru Nanak Sahib ji also said to mardana "Chant Vahiguroo and follow me on the water" But Mardana did not listen and instantly he drowned. Mardana cried for help, and Guru Nanak Sahib ji said "Mardana Chant Vahiguroo", and as soon mardana did, he instantly started walking on the water."
> No Guru has ever written any story about miracles from the previous Gurus. This is surely a production of business Baabaas.


What will those business Baabaas gain by making this story ? Can you tell me? What will they gain if they tell you to say Vahiguroo , is Vahiguroo their name, will they get the praise, if you say Vahiguroo ?



> Quote "At the end of the day, do what you feel comfortable with. Use RAAM if you feel comfortable saying it. The purpose is for remembrance."
> The world will be different when everybody can do Simran without The Sat Guru.



Without the grace of the Satguru, you will not find release. 




> "As to your other comment, I also have not come across any "business Baabaas of a religious bazaar" selling the joys of waheguroo."
> Often they are uploading lectures on Internet.



I know there are some fake babas, those are not to be followed, they ask you to bow in front of them, obviously, just as they are true Gursikhs , there are false gursikhs.


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## Archived_member2 (Dec 31, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Naam_jap Jee!

God speaks through the Guru. The true Sikh follows. They become Gursikh.
What has happened that Sikhs have started following Bhai Gurdas Jee and others? In my observation, Bhai Gurdas Jee's writings are not according to the Guru's message.

Praise and Worship of God are great. These are the results of true Simran receiving Gurshabad as true Prasaad.
Strange, sick Baabaas are teaching how to practice the word Waheguru, the praise of God. Since then, this habit is deep-rooted among many as bribery and buttering to melt God unconsciously.

One goes on drinking anything because he does not want to die thirsty.
Who will prefer anything else after receiving true Amrit of the Naam?


Balbir Singh


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## ekmusafir_ajnabi (Jan 16, 2007)

Whether you use "Waheguru" or "Ram" it does not matter. What matters is how you pronounce them. Incorrect pronouciation will lead you no where. And if people benefit form it then it is by chance only. This is why people get disheartened. There is an absolute "science" in the way to recite naam.

When you pronounce the letters correctly and in a particular sequence. The vibration from these sounds begin to tune up your mind. With practice you will find some twitching between the eyes and on top of your nose. Your mind wil automatically begin to clear.

Those that are engaged in the pursuit of meditation should be able to acknowledge the results. But not be able to specifically tell you how it happened.


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## roopsidhu (Jan 16, 2007)

SSA to all brothers
its disheartening to read that the discussion on this topic has reached to  the state of harsh answers as of Sri Agyanisingh ji but surely  agyanisingh ji is not to be blamed.
Whats in a name ?  lets see what is the message from gurbani : koi boley ram ram koi alahey, koi sewey gussayian koi khuday.
it does not matters by what name u remember him but how much you remember him really matters.
I strongly beleive that Balbir Singh ji wanted to ask it from some other point of view which he could not express or we could not get. but anyhow no discussion should reach to harsh answers. thats what i want to request all the valued writers
roopsidhu


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