# Professor Dhunda: Intellectual Or Misleading?



## sukritkaur (Feb 20, 2012)

Controversial  preachers like Dhuna earn their roji roti by doing emotional blackmail  on Sangat.

 I like to know why people call Sarabjit Singh Dhunda with a tittle of  Professor. Does he understand what makes a person professor or how long  it takes to become a professor in any subject? If he is not a qualified  professor, than why he is using the professor title. What kind of  preacher lies?

In his video he is labeling our own mothers, sisters and daughters as  females prostitutes because of dancing in private family functions or  happy occasions such as marriage. Is this how preachers do prachar by  name calling and making character mockery of bibian with degrading  examples of prostitutes. Simple task of missionary is to guide our  community rather than doing offensive adultery talk against some members  of sangat and that too in the hazoori of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
 Personally to me he is nobody, I can comprehend Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it is easy for a  Sikh to follow his dharam flawlessly. Translations are available in  Punjabi and English. I don’t think we need third party dodgy pracharks  such as Dhunda to tell us about Sikhi. We have our Guru, Sri Guru Granth  Sahib Ji. We should  remove third party such as dhunda from our life.  We must stop listing to third parties such as missionary Dhunda or  Ghagga, as such third parties will always create confusions.

If we want peace in our life then the formula is very simple and  given by our Guru Sahib: kirt karni, Vaand ke shakna, Naam Simran Karna  and Bhanna man-Keh-Charrdi kala vich rehana. We spend almost half of our  life working, we will never miss a day from work but we do not find  time to read and understand straight message from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. We will rush to  Gurudwara Sahib when such dodgy character less preacher comes to visit  foreign shores. We believe that these preachers will do some magic on us  so that we can get on to follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.  Most of our naïve brothers and  sisters go to see such preacher, thinking that he will give us the  medicine for our sins. What our brothers and sisters don’t know is that  NOBODY can give us anything except our Guru Sahib jee.

We are simply just being lazy, pathetic and naïve by totally relying  on pathetic preachers like Dhunda. I was like them but with guru jees  blessing, I got out of that rut.

It is easy for a missionary like Dhunda to do lectures on us because  he knows our weakness that most of us are empty and ignorant about  faith. We should understand that these missionary are paid and free all  day to memorize few tuks from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and then use that against us. They  live their roji roti by doing emotional blackmail on Sangat. We must  stop giving our minds to such shady character otherwise we will become a  cult-controlled mind. I know a family who got attached with this  missionary cult and now their family is ruined. My brothers and sisters  who are not aware of our dharam then be alert and be careful and always  take guidance from Guru Sahib Jee rather than from duki tuki preacher  like dhunda. Always ask guidance from Guru sahib ji and he will take  care of us.  We must remember Guru jee both in Dukh and Sukh. Guru jee  will shower you with his grace, everything will change to .

Thanks,
 Guru fateh
Darshan Singh

*Source: Preachers like Dhunda misleading naive Sikh  Sangat*
 Feb 15, 2012 by SSNews
*http://sikhsangat.org/1699/preachers-like-dhunda-misleading-naive-sikh-sangat/

Disclaimer: SPN does not adhere or take responsibility for  the content posted outside our website. This topic is posted only for  discussion purposes. Gurfateh!
*

Do you agree or disagree with this article? Share your thoughts...

Sukritkaur*
*


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 20, 2012)

Sukritkaur Bhain world is not as straight as it appears some times.

Checkout the following URL,

http://www.charityfocus.ca/en/pages/charitysummary.aspx?charityid=884320920RR0001
Darshan Singh DG Ghankas,    Authorized Signing Officer

(5 VALLEYWEST ROAD BRAMPTON, ON L6P2J9)

Nice house for the Charity address.  It appears lot of people have opened charities and Gurdwaras in their homes for Tax purposes.  The above appears related to the author of the article.  Very suspicious!  Also appear to be Dasam Granth pushers!

Sat Sri Akal.

*PS:*  Sukritkaur ji you are very smart.  Do you think one day I should add the word Prof. to my name say when I am finished translating Sukhmani Sahib ji.  lol


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 21, 2012)

SUKRIT KAUR ji,

How nany of us have really understood the true message of GuRu.?
We all only talk about GuRu whithout understanding what the GuRu is?
Under these circumstances persons like you are mentioning get the opportunity of presenting whatever they like and many of us feel happy and dont hesitate in giving the title like PROFESSOR or MAHAPURAKH or even SANT BABA.

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 21, 2012)

Guru Piayario Jios,

This article is typical run off the mill type of mislead..misinterpret.....<wbr>everything *MIS*..that can be there in the dictionary...and the link address shows that its indeed being promoted by the Mother of All *MIS*  creators ( Quote modeled on the famous Saddam quote Mother of all  battles that he promised the Americans if they invaded Iraq and then  Americans called his bluff..it became his Mother of all Ends )....

2. The Same Character Assasination was carried out on Professor Darshan  Singh Khalsa Ex Jathedar of Akal Takhat. Just to be Fair why not  question each and every "Gyani"..titles which even the TABLA player is  addressed with from very long ago and is so common that any "religious"  looking person in a Gurdwara/kirtan area is automatically addressed as  GYANI JI. Now a GYANI as qualified in Gurbani is such a HIGH  Standard...almost negligible persons can be qualified. Secondly those  who do go to UNIVERSITY and PASS a Public Examination with HONOURS is  given a Official DEGREE called GYANI. The holder of such is entitled to  attach the title GYANI in his name. There is NO THIRD type of GYANI.   Absolute SAME..HIGHEST OF ALL STANDARDS are the GURBANI QUALIFICATIONS  for SANT/SAINT/BRAHMGYANI...the number achieving it would be one in a  billion...YET UNDER EACH TREE and STONE in INDIA..there is a  SANT/Brahmgyani/Mahapurash !! There is NO "Worldy  education/exam/university/<wbr>college that bestows titles of  SANT/Brahmgyani/Mahapurash. IN Gurbani it is transaprent that ONLY BRAHM  can have all the GYAAN necessary to be qualified Brahmgyani....a *PURSH* who is MAHA..can only be the One CREATOR HIMSELF...in fact Gurbani doenst veen refer to a Mahapurash..it just refers to to* PURSH* ONLY..and that One and ONLY *PURSH*  is HE HIMSELF..yet we have Sikh sangats kissing the feet of people  masquarading as Total FRAUDS by calling themsleves MAHA to the PURASH of  GURBANI...they are claiming to be GREATER thna GURU..Akal Purakh..The  Creator..and yet we bow at their feet and dont say a word...if that isnt  double speak what is ??

Has anyone ever even feebly protested that the writer of Sukhmani Sahib  refers to Himself as Mahalla Panjavan  and signs off Nanak...while the  mere mortal who explains this bani/other banis..... based on his own low  level human mind consciousness..calls himself Gurmatt  Maartaand..brahmgyani..Sri 108.. Gyaan Da SOORAJ...etc etc etc etc etc  etc..a virtually UNENDING STRING OF TITLES a MILE LONG !!..and still  remains a mahapursh brahmgyani sant to many hundreds of followers  worldwide...WHO DONT HESITATE to draw swords and knock off dastaars in  the very august presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji even of anyone who dares to say a word  about this.....

2. Missionaries are DEDICATED people who dutifully attend MISSIONARY  COLLEGES...go through well known Gurmatt Mission Courses on Gurbani,  sikh history, languages etc etc for long periods of disciplined  timetabled life and then emerge as Missionary Parcharaks who are more  often than not Married as per Gurbani/Gurmatt, have families and other  responsibilities and also PREACH the GURMATT as opposed to the hundreds  fo thousands of DERAWALLAHS called "Sant Ji"..Brahmgyani ji..mahapursh  ji..etc..who dont MARRY as per Gurmatt, dont do any KIRT..except go  around EQUALLING the GURUS by saying we are Naam jappers....who collect  HUGE SUMS..who ALWAYS go ABROAD more often becasue the foreign  currencies mean bigger fortunes...whose DERAS have majestic AraamGaahs  mansions for their PRIVATE residences, luxury cars...who express EXTREME  ANGER and VIOLENCE as was shown when Babbu mann sang a song..IK Baba  nanak see jihneh dunia padel tur ke gahtee..IK uh baba see jihne LAAL  BATEE Gaddee ute laa tee....now its common knowledge that who HAS RED  LIGHTS on Luxury cars..and why this SONG STUNG SO MUCH. GOVERNMENTS  ALWAYS ACCORD RED CARPETS and RED LIGHT Cars and SECURITY..only to those  who COLLUDE with the Govt of the Day..be it Mughal..British..or Delhi  Govt....NOT a Single MISSIONARY in the world has a LUXURY CAR..or  Mansions..or Govt security...esp in PUNJAB. All of them are simple  householders earning a living and doing KIRT, waand chhaknna and Naam  jappnna as ordained by GURBANI in PRACTISE in the OPEN......not sit around in deep "bhoras" hidden inside DERAS and Private Gurdwaras...."doing what" ??  no body knows..because the doors are locked...and secured by armed security outside and cctv cameras as well.

2. Listen to the Videos of prof Dhunda ji....and see..that the DIWANS are what we say in Punjabi KHACHA KHACH....filled to the brim..even OVERFLOWING into extra tents etc...( And thats what really scares these Baba mahapursh followers becasue sangats are now actually sitting down to listen to the *GURU* and His Message instead of tall tales of dropadi and nand lalla kishore and various rishis making babies out of reeds etc etc etc)..are these CROWDS for REAL ?? why no one made any PROTEST ? why didnt hey just get up and WALK AWAY ?? Are those thousands of LADIES simply so stupid to take those so called "insults" to themsleves sitting down ?? OR is the WRITER of this SPUN TALL TALE masquerading as an "article" decide to DEFEND THEM ???
Listen carefully...dont So called SIKHS drink..and dance in PUBLIC..on PUBLIC ROADS ??? is that an overstatement ?? Then why so many so called "SATIKAAR" GOONDA GROUPS rushing about everywhere looking to DISRUPT these weddings and dancings and drinking binges ?? You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You cant say..NO SUCH THING..its Dhundas imagination..and then justify gate crashing at weddings simply because there s meat alcohol bhangara there ??? Just Google the Internet and see how many sikh weddings were thus rudely "interrupted"...and you know Dhunda is just stating the OBVIOUS....and anyway DHUNDA Ji is much much MORE RATIONAL about these than the "satikaar goondas" who dont give two hoots about anyone else except their own AGENDA. What is the TRUTH cannot be hidden or wished away under guise of "insulting us"...so close the eyes and bury the head in the sand... no jios jkear eho jiheh kaam karangeh taan sir swaah pavegi...GURMATT nasaar there is NO Bhnagra..NO ALCOHOL..no DANCING..etc in a ANAND KARAJ..only LAAVAN !! But sadly todays SIKHS (more so the wealthy ones)...treat Laavan/Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji presence just as a necessary "evil"..and keep it SHORT ENOUGH....so that the LONGER time can be spent drinking, orgy dancing drunk as the devil...and eating etc in the Marriage Palaces with DJs and loud music half naked dancing girls etc etc...in FACT 99.9% of WEDDING ATTENDEES/INVITEES NEVER step foot inside the Gurdawra for  the  laavaan...they go STRAIGHT to the Marriage Palace..where all the *action* is...( Bottle/Chicken legs).....who needs the Karrah parsaad anyway..its GHEE/SUGAR/ATTA  is cholesterol and bad for health..ha ha !!

WHY not a single "detractor" of Dhunda ji ahs not even asked why he alludes to the DHESIAN DERA Kirtan programme where in the AUGUST Presence of a parkash Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...the ragis like SUFI POET Hans raaj hans and so called gurmatt kirtaniyahs sang and the sangat STOOD UP and DANCED. This Incident is real and did happen...but no one seems the slight bit offended by this GROSS INSULT to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...but the "shadowy" insult to the our daughters mothers is so visible...isnt it true that an ELEPHANT seated on ones NOSE is invisible..while a MICROBE on the MOON is highly viisble ??( esp when that "microbe" is just IMAGINARY )

LISTEN to ALL the DHUNDA Videos on YOU TUBE....and make up your own minds...dont be MISLED by vested interests....:redturban: :redturban: :redturban: :redturban: cheerleader


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## BaljinderS (Feb 21, 2012)

I agree with Jarnail Singh veer ji... don't be fooled by other people.  Do your own research, if you do that then you can make the correct decision for yourself, who is wrong or right?  Don't be a sheep and follow others.  Waheguru has given you the capability to stand on your own feet.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 21, 2012)

Heres the video of gross insult to SGGS..so called Sikhs dancing in Guru jis presence...all this got from Akal takhat was a tiny slap on the wrist for Hazooree ragi.....and case closed. This is what Dhunda is talking about as well....are Sikhs sleeping ?? or "awake" selectively ?? when it suits them...???    Guru Granth sahib ji di hajoori vich Pakandi sangat, dancing,clapping,Bhangra,(Tesiyan gurdwara)      - YouTube


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## chazSingh (Feb 21, 2012)

Each and every one of us should close our eyes and meditate on Satnaam Waheguru and from deep in our heart do ardaas to god to show us the 'Truth' to keep us amongst the 'Truth' to help us be the 'Truth' and to serve the 'Truth'. 
If you do this with Full faith and Love and commitment, God will show you all the Truth and nothing but the Truth. even if the Truth hurts your feelings or is not what you expected.
If you are destined to meet a Living True Sant (if there is one) then you will know He is a True Sant.
Problem is that too many people go looking for a Sant, they have lost faith in Ardaas and their reasons for Seeking god are worldly reasons.
When i Sit in the gurdwara, all i hear are ardaas of "please bless me with a Job" "bless my New Child with happiness and success" "please bless me so that I may pass my exam".... Hardly ever do i hear an ardaas or prayer that says "whatever you give me, i am pleased with that, whatever you do with me, i am pleased with that for you are the only doer *Kartaa Purakh. Just never let me forget your Naam".*

These followers have just lost faith, and their desires are worldly. Life will always manifest something to appease their minds desires, and thats why these fake saints keep popping up.


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 21, 2012)

chazSingh said:


> _Hardly ever do i hear an ardaas or prayer that says "whatever you give me, i am pleased with that, whatever you do with me, i am pleased with that for you are the only doer _*Kartaa Purakh. Just never let me forget your Naam".*


veer chazsingh ji great points indeed.

Essence of what underlined above is my quiet Ardaas when I bow before SGGS.  No wonder you will never hear it.  Many doing this Ardaas do it so in their hearts.

I believe it is generally OK to speak or good or bad in Ardaas in worldly terms too as this is perhaps also one of the only places and times that you have the opportunity to say thanks or cry for help openly.  Sometimes this in itself may be help to you as well as others since many people with different backgrounds and capabilities attend a congregation.  It does sound pretty bad at times listening and I agree with you on that.

What you think!

Sat Sri Akal.


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## chazSingh (Feb 21, 2012)

Satnaam Ji,

Yes, i sincerely hope many people are doing this ardaas also albeit silently. God bless us all that we pour our hearts out the the Guru and fall at His feet. It is his Grace that gives us the kick up the '....' to start Simran, to help others, to tell the truth and be the truth, and it is our Ego that wants to take the credit for it all.

Just from my experience of hearing peoples ardaas, hearing people get angry to the Giani ji pronouncing their name sin-correctly, even just the Giani Ji having to mention someone's name and how much money they have given. I just don't understand it. If we really truely beleive in Guru Ji, that Guru Ji literally exists in every particle of us, they whey do we need to speak out about how much money is given by us, or have a Giani Ji to speak it. Guru Ji already knows as soon as the though of you giving money arises in your mind.

Our minds have the power to create whatever world we so desire....If we are all perverted to the extreme, our surrounding become filled with more Strip clubs, more prostitutes appearing and all that follows with it.
If our collective minds live in Fear and Dis-trust, we add more locks to our front doors, pay for ever more expensive security equipment, give more power to our governments to help remove this fear.
If we forget that God is one, all is God. then our Ego bathes in the Glory of 'I' and 'Me' and we create boundaries, Hate, Anger towards another, My belonging/ My money, etc etc.

People still don't believe that God Exists in us even though Sri Gur Nanak Dev ji made it so clear, so they still feel the need to get something from the outside ( a Sant or someone to come and do the job for them ) and then leave themselves open to being abused by Fake people. , rather than sit in Quite and Tune into your inner sound. All the answers lie there.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 21, 2012)

ARDAASi or PRAYER is the most powerful way of communication with SUPREME or ULTIMATE LORD.There is great importance of ARADAASi in all circumstances and situations in life individually or collectively.
There is Latent Power of ARDAASi that can do anthing for the person .So one should always make ARDAASi for ones requrement of any type .But the ARDAASi should be always be personal not thru some one.
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## chazSingh (Feb 21, 2012)

Satnaam SatSangat Ji,

In the past i would get very Angry at what these Fake Sants are doing, Shout at the T.V, demand that they get 'sorted out'. then once i started Taking Naam Simran Seriously and doing it on a daily basis i used to start thinking, Look what negative things these situations are bringing out of me (anger, hate, the feeling to retaliate, to hurt, slander) all of the exact things that Sri Guru Granth Sahib is showing me how to eradicate, but i am failing miserably.

I asked myself, Do I Continue Hating the Fake Sants, or should i understand why they are materialising so much around us. If We desire Sweets, a Shop will open around the corner selling sweets, If we desire hurting someone, an opportuinity to hurt them will materialise one day, if we desire someone to magically fix all our issues and give us God in an stance, then someone will materialise who claims to do all these. We need to undertand it is the individual and collected states of people minds and desires that creates these people.

So lets all do ardaas the next time we sit quietly to do Simran that all these people including myself are shown the truth and can live by the truth. and that we can refrain from Anger and hate, and instead are graced with energy to showing people the right way.

God bless all.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 21, 2012)

There is only one SANT and that is SGGS only.

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## sukritkaur (Feb 21, 2012)

To everyone,
Thanks for your contributions. 

Gyani Ji: Don't worry I do not despise Mr. Dhunda Ji, I actually went to some of his appearances at Gurudwaras in the community where he was doing katha vichaar.I was shocked to read this article and I posted it here to see if others also thought like this. I just thought since it was on SikhSangat.org their regulations would've seen this and since they approved it for public viewing I was trying to understand why this would be. It didn't occur to be that the Baba/Pakhandi agenda had infiltrated these sites as well. Usually this site has valuable news and information. This is the first time an article like this came into my view on this site, and it immediately set off alarm bells.

It can be noted when someone is obsessively possesive of the titles they hold(be it Gyani, Captain,  Sant, Fearless Leader, etc) that they themselves are unworthy of such titles. I love it when Gyani ji, I say this because of your superior understanding and prowess of the Punjabi language and Gurbani interpretatoin, is explaining the denotations of Gyani. This is done so often by you, and you never hesitate to school us and bring those unaware back to reality, which I love. Either way, the enlightened person does not cherish titles nor do they care for them so I don't really pay attention to people who profusely proclaim their self-proclaimed status of Sant/Gyani. I dont know if you recall my Kashmiri community issue, the elderly gentleman who came up with his genuine vision for helping Kashmiri Sikh Youth and Newcomers, Gunjit Singh, has the same degree as you but not once does he inform people of this just for cheap acknowledgement/applause. I only found out one day after he was telling me about Akali Phoola Singh and I asked him how he knew so much about Sikhi.He's 
just referred to as mashter Ji (respected teacher) by me. SInce you're also my teacher if it's okay with you, I would like to call you mashter ji too. You two should meet, I think you two would make for good friends.
Ambarsaria Ji: If I ever need a good laugh, I'm coming to you. Man oh man, I spit out the pani in my mouth when I read your post. Of course, thanks for the compliment, you're much too nice. You were talking about the author being a Dasam Granth pusher, is there somewhere I can look this up, I feel like I'm googling wrong.


In all seriousness however, I feel like I should re-evaluate my sources 24-7 now that this debacle has come to pass.But I still can't wrap my head around the fact that this site would print such things. Maybe its too naive of me but I thought Sikh sites were supposed to be positive and a place for learning and growth, not negativity and name calling that this author seems to enjoy writing about.

I've so much to learn still,
Sukrit Kaur


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 21, 2012)

That is WHY the Genuine Ardass gifted to US ALL free and unadulterated via the SGGS..TU THAKUR TUM PEH ARDASS is the Best and Most appropriate for all ocassions. No one cna find an iota of fault with this becasue its all 100% Gurbani straight form the GURU..our SAHIB...back to our Creator...our Thakur..Our Akal Purakh..our SAHIB.


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## BhagatSingh (Feb 21, 2012)

He is pretty lame. I just watched his Katha on the homepage. Bad sample maybe? Anyways, I watched the first 20 minutes and as I listened to his shallow interpretations of the shabads, which he sang out in a rather melodious voice (maybe that's why he is famous). He did not seem to grasp what the shabads were saying at all. But sounded pretty confident in his grasp of them (another reason for his fame perhaps). Prof Dhundha does not appear to be enlightened to me. Anyways, let's see if he gets better with age.

PS Gyani Sant Singh Maskeen has much better katha if anyone is interested. Philosopher, teacher, poet and contemplative with a soothing voice.


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## Luckysingh (Feb 22, 2012)

It's very easy for us to be critical.
I always try not to judge even when someone like this self made prof makes it pretty obvious that they are up to no good.

If I do come across these kind of people that criticise others, then immediately I usually switch off. But for me to criticise him for his remarks doesn't make me any better than he is.

Sometimes I do think that it is a blessing that we come across all varieties of individuals as we can AlWAYS learn.
That learning could be some good quotes, some knowledge or even some discipline.
When people with certain negative charachteristics come along- the BIG lesson we CAN learn is NOT to be like THEM.


Waheguru
Lucky Singh


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## sukritkaur (Feb 22, 2012)

BhagatSingh said:


> He is pretty lame. I just watched his Katha on the homepage. Bad sample maybe? Anyways, I watched the first 20 minutes and as I listened to his shallow interpretations of the shabads, which he sang out in a rather melodious voice (maybe that's why he is famous). He did not seem to grasp what the shabads were saying at all. But sounded pretty confident in his grasp of them (another reason for his fame perhaps). Prof Dhundha does not appear to be enlightened to me. Anyways, let's see if he gets better with age.
> 
> PS Gyani Sant Singh Maskeen has much better katha if anyone is interested. Philosopher, teacher, poet and contemplative with a soothing voice.


I Looove Gyani Sant Maskin Ji, I grew up on his Katha playing in the family room while waiting for  my mom to finish cooking, and when I feel especially confused I listen to his Kathas, he's amazing.

I also love Sant Jasbir SIngh Khalsa. His Katha Kirtan skills are quite engaging and I've always learned from him. 

These two individuals are my top two. However there's a young guy in the UK, Bhai Sukha SIngh who shows some promise I hope I hear more from him. He does his Katha in England Gurudwaras which is half in english and half in Punjabi so the younger audience can get engaged. Maybe I'll post some of his videos.

*Why don't we turn this thread into the sangat suggestions of Katha Vachaks. I think I should start recording my local Gurudwara Katha Vachak, he's pretty awesome and his analogies are  quite simple  and best of all he always encourages people to question his interpretation so everyone can have a better understanding, but of course no one does, I don't know why*.

 Sukrit Kaur


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 22, 2012)

Prof Dhunda..Prof Ghaghha, Prof Gurbachan singh Ludhiana, Prof Shivdev Singh, Panthpreet Singh..are  among the more prominenent  ones who do Katha every week at Gurdwara bangla sahib and broadcast LIVE over Chardeekala Time TV via satelite/cable.
IF they were indeed as 'shallow" and just melodious voices..they would have been kicked out a long time ago...
I do think that they ALL have a much deeper understanding of Gurmatt as much as Gyani maskeen Ji  ( I have ALL of his kathas on dvd and have listened for past 15 years repeatedly to them)
A much BETTER Kathawachak than Maskeen ji  ( in those far off days)was a person named JHAUR...who was gaining audiences so fast....all over India..and then one fine day he boarded a TRAIN for a samagam in a nearby town..never to arrive..no body was ever found...and then Maskeen Ji rose almost miraculously....to dominate the katha field..until now...when we have so many fine ones.
Of course Dhunda ji doesnt believe in reincarnation, rebirth, pittars liivng on the sun waiting for water and bedding b{censored}es langgar saradhs etc...BUT Maskeen ji beleived al that 110%...and even in the Bhardwaj case where he preached that listening to one Akhand paath cured cancer...but even that didnt STOP DEATH..which is the more important POINT stressed in GURBANI....hence my personal bias....
Bottom line..we MUST EACH..on his own..reach out to the GURU....One to ONE...no two ways about that..no one..even as great as maskeen ji can help us one iota...

PS> maskeen katha is 340GB MP3 files....spanning 30+ years of his life... I am now cutting a couple of  Blurays..DVDs are just too many to handle...plus on Portable HDDs which are dirt cheap these days.


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## chazSingh (Feb 22, 2012)

Giani Ji,

That is right, we are all on our own journey and it is the power of our heart felt prayer that strikes through the fog of our mind and connects with the Guru Ji literally within us.

All of us are in varying degrees controlled by our millions of thoughts which arise in the mind based on Greed, desire, attachment, anger, ego etc. How many times have we sat and held our heads and said "where are these thoughts coming from, i can't stop these millions of thoughts, how can i stop them so that i can think clearly"

Simran is the technique to battle the mind, to still it, to take it out of its thinking habits that get us all muddled up, take us to the wrong people, make us re-act the way we dont actually want to. The more we start to still the mind, the more the thoughts from the soul get through to the mind and we act upon them...the divine/pure thoughts.

Guru Ji can speak through the tongue of a drunken man. The point is, when you need to hear something truthful from God, it can come from anybody at the precise moment in time that each individual person needs to hear it. You'll know its Truth (god) if it pierces your heart and stops you in your tracks to think about it.

Does anyone on the forum believe in things like the Third eye or Dassam Duar?


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 22, 2012)

It is true that one has to make the journey alone but from Gurbanee we learn that we do require a medium being refered as SATiGuRu to complete the journey.
There are very strong  messages in SGGS for the requirement of SATiGuRu.
Without SATiGuRu it is not even possible to start the journey.
So find your OWN SATiGuRu first so that you always remain guided for your destination.

Prakash Singh Bagga


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## chazSingh (Feb 22, 2012)

There will be people on this earth that are so called 'enlightened' that are further up the spiritual path so to speak. Some of us will be blessed to meet these souls and they can help guide us also. Others will meet fake sants and be misled...but at that time of that persons journey they maybe needed to experience that and then understand why it may have happened to them.

Everything in the universe vibrates at certain frequencies including ourselves...the unstruck Sound Current that came from God to form the creation flows through the creation (some call it Naam). When we meditate on the Naam, we slowly but surely change our frequecy of existance and start to vibrate at similar requency to the universal current...and then we become one.... Like in Science when two sound waves at different frequencies can merge into one larger single sound current when they vibrate at the same frequency....same concept...

When you meditate, feel the sounds of the Mantra, and contemplate on its meanng with eyes closed and complete focus.
and do this regulary without missing a day (during work, when you lie down to sleep, amrit vela, any time you can) and you'll start to notice the changes, and how the changes in you also start to change the people around you.
Yogi Bhajan used to say that in this age, the Shabad Guru is the only SatGuru required...the technology behind the Sounds of the shabad....Believe in it, feel it, and live it.
An Enlightened Soul can sometimes speed the process...by answering your minds hundreds of wayward questions, but the end process is the same...meditating on the Sound current.

I am just talking from my own experiences...i am just a beginner on this journey and nothing else..

God bless all.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 22, 2012)

CHAZ SINGH Ji,

I am gratly impressed by your views.You are on the right path and I am sure you have either met or going to meet your SATi GuRu.
The Sati GuRu which I mention is not someone as person in Human Form.It s there in Gurbanee and this SATiGuRu will come  and tell you ..Look..Here is your SatiGuRu and recognise .But the coming and meeting SatiGuRu is all predestined.
Even NAAMu will be given by this SATiGuRu only and I am sure this would be different what you may be thinking today.
Well very nice to see an excellent message thru you......May SatiguRu be with you.

Prakash.s.Bagga


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## Admin (Feb 22, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> It is true that one has to make the journey alone but from Gurbanee we learn that we do require a medium being refered as SATiGuRu to complete the journey.
> There are very strong  messages in SGGS for the requirement of SATiGuRu.
> Without SATiGuRu it is not even possible to start the journey.
> So find your OWN SATiGuRu first so that you always remain guided for your destination.
> ...


Bagga Ji

What kind of SATiGuRu is Gurbani talking about? Is SATiGuRu any physical entity? 

Gurfateh!


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## chazSingh (Feb 22, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> CHAZ SINGH Ji,
> 
> I am gratly impressed by your views.You are on the right path and I am sure you have either met or going to meet your SATi GuRu.
> The Sati GuRu which I mention is not someone as person in Human Form.It s there in Gurbanee and this SATiGuRu will come and tell you ..Look..Here is your SatiGuRu and recognise .But the coming and meeting SatiGuRu is all predestined.
> ...


 
Satnaam Prakash Ji,

At the moment i do not know if i have met my satguru, but i feel like i am being nudged in the right direction...it something which i cannot describe in words...My views change the more i do Simran, its like an evolving meaning the more i change internally...Is this what they mean when they say Gurbani meaning is Infinite, the more you meditate on it, the deeper you go?

My Love for Guru Ji has always been there all my life, but it is only in past 6 months since experiencing some bad situations where where i became steadfast and focussed...At the time i complained why these bad things were happening to me (my mind trying to use its own thinking)...i couldnt understand...but now i understand the meaning of *Dukh Daru Sukh Rog Bhaiya *...and now i feel the Duck was in fact a Suck...its really strange how it all happens..

Simran has changed everything...I used to just sit at the gurdwara and listen on and off to gurbani, now i sit and meditate with eyes closed in the gurdware for an hour every day after work...my mind meditates on Satnaam Waheguru, while Shabad Gurbani being read by giani Ji is swirling all around me...Its strange i don;t now look at the Book of Sri guru Granth sahib, its the sounds and feelings and sensations i feel all around me when i do simran and hear the shabad. Everything changes bit by bit...its so hard to explain...and it makes me want to do more and more Simran.

The challenges are there...a wife and her family that is not interested at all in Guru Ji, who constantly judges me, and tries to be-little what i do. But the love for guru Ji is too strong to be held down...this is how i have to do my bagti, i don't hate her, she keeps me in my toes and focussed on Satnaam Ji and i've learned valuable power of Forgiveness. Everything is a blessing no matter how bad it may seem at the time.

My current feeling is that Shabad Gurbani is My True Guru guiding me across the river, but that my True True Guru within (god) is providing the Pull, like its calling out to me from within...sometimes though when you keep ignoring the inner feeling, and the mind is focussed on the outside things, i do believe though that Guru Ji will use an enlightened soul to give you a little nudge so to speak . And yes its all pre-determined what happends and in what way.


I am a no body, i don'y want anything but to be the person God intends me to be and not what my mind thinks i should be...

I'm sure as my Simran increases my understanding will change 
Simran has changed my life so much and thats the only reason i come onto these sites to get more people doing it.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 22, 2012)

Aman Singh said:


> Bagga Ji
> 
> What kind of SATiGuRu is Gurbani talking about? Is SATiGuRu any physical entity?
> 
> Gurfateh!


 
AMAN SINGH Ji,
Nice to hear from you after such a long time.
If you are consideing physical entity as Human Form then my answer is .NO...
From Gurbanee we can learn SATiGuRu is one which is OMNIPRESENT/OMNIPOTENT and OMNISCIENT and is not FORMLESS.
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 22, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> AMAN SINGH Ji,
> Nice to hear from you after such a long time.
> If you are consideing physical entity as Human Form then my answer is .NO...
> From Gurbanee we can learn SATiGuRu is one which is OMNIPRESENT/OMNIPOTENT and OMNISCIENT _*and is not FORMLESS*_.
> Prakash.S.Bagga


Prakash.S.Bagga ji how do you translate the word "Nirankar" as in the following,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

<table><tbody><tr><td align="left">





> *[SIZE=-1]Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary[/SIZE]*</td></tr><tr><td align="left"> [SIZE=-0] (1) ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਕੋਈ ਅਕਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ, (ਭਾਵ) ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ। (2) ਅਕਾਰ ਰਹਿਤ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਉਸਤਤਿ  ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਕਰਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ॥ {ਗਉ ੫, ਸੁਖ ੧੪, ੨:੧ (281)}। ਆਪਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਆਕਾਰੁ ਹੈ ਆਪੇ  ਆਪੇ ਕਰੈ ਸੁ ਥੀਆ॥ {ਬਿਹਾ ੪, ਵਾਰ ੭:੫ (551)}। ਤੂੰ ਸਦਾ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ॥ {ਜਪੁ ੧,  ੧੬:੨੬ (3)}। ਤੋਟਿ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ ਜਪਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ॥ {ਆ [/SIZE] </td></tr></tbody></table>
> <table><tbody><tr><td align="left">*[SIZE=-1]Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-English Dictionary[/SIZE]*</td></tr><tr><td align="left"> [SIZE=-0]* n.   (from Sk. Nirākārā) Transcendent Lord, Formless Lord *[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
> Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-English Data provided by  Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA.[/SIZE] </td></tr></tbody></table>
> <table><tbody><tr><td align="left">*[SIZE=-1]English Translation[/SIZE]*</td></tr><tr><td align="left"> [SIZE=-0]* Without form, Almighty, God. *[/SIZE] </td></tr></tbody></table>
> ...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Your focus on "FORM" is mis-placed from what I can tell.  The meaning is "FORMLESS".  You say _*"and is not FORMLESS"*_  implying FORM.




> ਤੂ  ਸਦਾ  ਸਲਾਮਤਿ  ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ  ॥੧੬॥
> 
> तू सदा सलामति निरंकार ॥१६॥
> 
> ...


http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=3&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=1&fb=0&k=1

Sat Sri Akal.
</td></tr></tbody></table>


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 22, 2012)

AMBARSARIA Ji,
This I have discussed earlier too and we totally differ on this issue.I have nothing to say new.You may try to go more deeper to get to know.May be you may come with some new  and more approriate meaning for the word NIANKAAR.
I may give you a bit of hint you may or may not consider.There is another similar word 
NIRANJAN.
How you extract the meanings of both similar words NIRANJAN and NIRANKAR by applying the rule of disection of word as per grammar.

Anything which is FORMLESS can not be ACTIVE whereas our SATiGuRu is LIVING and ACTIVE so how such a entity can be FORMLESS .This is beyond understanding.
I may be wrong in understanding but my own understanding is  that My SatiGuRu (for ALL also) is with  own specific form. which is being refered as SATi SWAROOP in Gurbanee.

Now it is for you to understand what should be the meaning of the word SWAROOP..?

We can also understand all natural forces which are invisible ..Are they formless?
Is SUNLIGHT FORMLESS.....Is AIR FORMLESS......Even Is VACUUM FORMLESS?

I have put certain references  as  example only. You may not necessariry agree to this too.
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 22, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> I may give you a bit of hint you may or may not consider.There is another similar word
> NIRANJAN.
> How you extract the meanings of both similar words _*NIR*_ANJAN and *NIR*ANKAR by applying the rule of disection of word as per grammar.


Prakash.S.Bagga ji thanks for your post.

The syllable _*"NIR"*_ clearly and unambiguously stands for the meaning *"without"*.

For example the mool mantar as,

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> *ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥*
> 
> *ArQ:- *Akwl purK ie`k hY, ijs dw nwm 'hoNd vwlw' hY jo isRStI dw rcnhwr hY, jo sB ivc ivAwpk hY, BY qoN rihq hY, vYr-rihq hY, ijs dw srUp kwl qoN pry hY, (Bwv, ijs dw srIr nws-rihq hY), jo jUnW ivc nhIN AwauNdw, ijs dw pRkwS Awpxy Awp qoN hoieAw hY Aqy jo siqgurU dI ikrpw nwl imldw hY[
> 
> God/creator is one and is known as the eternal being, is the creator of all, present everywhere, without fear, without animosity, is timeless, is not guided by life cycles, is a self creation and is realized through its own (God/creator) blessing.


The other syllable can then be studied.


Sorry veer I don't need hints.  You either provide the information or you don't.  How I work is I share what I know!  You may want to work through hints, your choice.



Sat Sri Akal.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 22, 2012)

AMBARSARIA Ji,
I wanted you to to extract the meanings of the two words NIRANJAN and NIRANKAR,which you have not done.
This disection is certainly going to reveal the factual meaning of the word NIANKAR.
I feel you are avoiding this.
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 22, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> AMBARSARIA Ji,
> _I wanted you to to extract_ the meanings of the two words NIRANJAN and NIRANKAR,which you have not done.
> This disection is certainly going to reveal the factual meaning of the word NIANKAR.
> _I feel you are avoiding this._
> Prakash.S.Bagga


Why should I follow your orders!  I avoid nothing.  I listed the basis of my understanding two posts earlier.  

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-...-intellectual-or-misleading-3.html#post161012

I agree with the meaning in my above post.

If you know something, write it down and post or you are too shy!:sippingcoffeemunda:  Don't riddle me as this is nonsensical approach, at least the way I feel and see it.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 22, 2012)

Ambarsaria said:


> Why should I follow your orders! I avoid nothing. I listed the basis of my understanding two posts earlier.
> 
> http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-...-intellectual-or-misleading-3.html#post161012
> 
> ...


 

SORRY ,AMBARSARIA Ji ,I cant share more than this.

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 22, 2012)

That is fine.  If I may suggest you don't keep asking others to do while you are not willing to share where presumably you know what to say or post but don't want to say or post.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Harry Haller (Feb 22, 2012)

Prakashji, 

I have lost count of the many times you have got me all excited and then proceeded to leave out the punch line..

A lot of what you say has great potential if only you would stop writing like a crime thriller writer, I appreciate the suspense, but if you could start being a bit less mystical and a bit more helpful, we could all learn something

peacesign


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## Luckysingh (Feb 22, 2012)

chazSingh said:


> Does anyone on the forum believe in things like the Third eye or Dassam Duar?


 
A simple answer to a simple question.
Yes, I do.
I may be crazy or just another lost soul. But since I have had beliefs in the above- I actually understand bani alot better, including most importantly with what Guru Nanak was actually talking about -BUT....
We must REMEMBER, on a personal level WE ALL TRANSLATE bani or a hukamnaama into the perspective it fits into our OWN lives.
Which is why a hukamnaama is always pleasing to every single soul, but can be intepreted in a different context.**NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT***

I am currently learning and practicing meditation and so far there have been pure positives, nothing negative or downfalls at all.


Sat Kartar
Lucky Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 22, 2012)

Paraksh singh ji..the Satigur is within...the base standard seated deep inside each of us to judge our daily karams and joons and see how we measure up..the Lessons are written down in SGGS..we study..we think and we FOLLOW and adapt our Lives..and we KNOW via the Satigur standard within whether we passed..merit..or failed and hence what joon we are in for the moment...the Kutteh bhaunking are WITHIN...the lobh is within..and when we give in..we are in kuttah joon..and we have the ABILITY to GET OUT of that JOON as soon as we realise we are what we are..and the SGGS is there 24/7 to INSTRUCT US.

Just too many 
human FAKE Satgurus" assume they are the *REAL STUFF* and want us to "CLOSE THE BOOK "..and Just KISS their AXXES"..for Salvation....for how to kiss AXXX see the Photo in Rozana spokesman where the Road leading to Sacha sauda Dera full of HUGE POTHOLE full of FILTHY WATER..and "satigur's sngat" waiting for saadh to walk through the water to purify it for them to drink....Those types of "satigurus" are FILTH.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 22, 2012)

The Third Eye and dasam duar are....PERSONAL experiences..akin to what Gurbani calls Goongeh mathiyaee khayee..a dumb and deaf eating something so tasty..but unable to say so...in this case I too am dumb and deaf........so cant say any more......but it should answer the question asked.....and another thing..it doesnt need one to be an intellectual/academic of high standing..professor or Gyani..to have those experiences..any one is eligible...


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 22, 2012)

The following as a thank you to Gyani veer ji  for his so many contributions and helpful posts (sorry off-topic and not all about Sikhi),<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px">
Hindko Mahiyeh  with Doctor and Shada      - YouTube

</object>Shada lala Hindko, Arman tha lagdaei, latest from Jalalia.      - YouTube

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rkfei-Y9Oco?feature=player_embedded" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OoXCrCR3FXw?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="360" width="640"></object>

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/s3sJ2YILiCA?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/s3sJ2YILiCA?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>
Sat Sri Akal.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Feb 22, 2012)

harry haller said:


> Prakashji,
> 
> I have lost count of the many times you have got me all excited and then proceeded to leave out the punch line..
> 
> ...


 
There is nothing I can be mystic about.There are certain things which are as clear as nose on any ones mouth.Only thing is I dislike some style which stops me automatically.
You are quite familiar with earlier happenings and I dont want to get that repeated again.
Prakash.s.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 22, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> There is nothing I can be mystic about.There are certain things which are as clear as nose on any ones mouth._Only thing is I dislike some style which stops me automatically._
> You are quite familiar with earlier happenings and I dont want to get that repeated again.
> Prakash.s.Bagga


Veer prakash.s.bagga ji if I did not post and the way I posted (style) you will share!:sippingcoffeemunda:

Please put me on ignore list and do a service and be helpful to the rest.  Nothing will be of happiness to me.  I do have respect of a different kind for you in that that you have great analytical mind as well as great presence of keen observation.  These can produce wonderful results.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 23, 2012)

Ambarsariah Ji..
Many thanks for the Shada lala videos...much appreciated jios.
Whenever i watch such i always think about my late dad Gyani darbara Singh daler whose deep knowledge of urdu, f{censored}e, brij bhasha hindi Sindhi, baloch, Pushto dilaects the Rawalpindi type of Punjabi etc etc.. etc and musical background leading to almost instant Kavita and shairee flowing from his pen the moment he heard any new geet song etc...and back in the 60s this was very rarely seen...one had to buy cassete tapes and those also only those made available by shopkeepers/music shops..no choice really....very limited choices...unlike now when we have the world at our fingertips in excellent quality...he would have really enjoyed these...compared to my severely limited urdu and almost no f{censored}e..and of course simple brij only.. Apart from this he knew the sggs by heart and had the faridkotee teeka memorised..along with a host of books on gurbani shairee kavits panth parkash etc etc...a walking encyclopaedia...THANK YOU JI.


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## chazSingh (Feb 23, 2012)

The Way i see it is described in the Ek-Ong-Kar. 
He is One – Ek. It has vibration, sound – Ong – and from sound, from vibration it express itself in form – Kaar. But the Oneness and the sound and the form are merged in every moment, in every thing – continually playing together. A current runs through the entire Creation. And like children playing with paints, Ek Ong Kaar never creates the same picture twice.

We need to look around in nature to get some understanding of how this all works. When we feel angry, the thoughts of Anger are formless, no one can see my thoughts of anger...no one knows that i'm angry....until the thoughts and emotions take form on my face (red face, eye brows roll up, teeth show, clench fists)....The formless thoughts and emotion of Anger become Forms in the physical realm...both co-exist.

the only conscious being in the whole universe is God...there is none other than God. We are conscous beings...if we strip our physical layers, whats left underneath is God.
There is a saying "if you want to see God...look in the mirror and smile at him, watch him smile back at you" all we are is God experiencing God and thats why the whole creation was created
Well thats what i believe anyway...so when people say that a Satguru cannot come in physical form, you need to understand what lies within that physical form...God...and its God that resides in all of us...we just don't 'truely' believe it.
And when we say that Shabad Guru is my Satguru, it is because the words/meanings and combined sounds are the physical manifestation of the formless Sound Current that came from god and flows through all of us and is god himself.

Just my current understanding Sat Sangat Ji...appologies if i'm way off the mark...i;m just a mere learner.
Please Sangat ji, also try and be polite to each other...you need to really believe that when we speak to another we speak to God.


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## chazSingh (Feb 23, 2012)

Sat Sangat Ji,

On the Subject of Third eye and Dassam Duar. Well from my own experiences...i started doing Naam Simran a couple of years back...it was on and off, not regular...used to try and wake up for amrit Vela, but struggles and always fell asleep quickly...and then i stopped...until recently and certain events in my life and GuruJi grabed me my my arms and pulled my right back, but this time its different, By his Grace dedication is better, daily Meditation whilst i work at my Job and more beneficial when i go to sleep and when i wake up in middle of the night..
Then i can sit quietly, eyes closed, pupils pulled upwards towards the centre of my eyebrows (third eye), full concentration on the sounds of Satnaam Waheguru in my mind (initially verbal, then silently in my mind). and then i contemplate my Waheguru, try to feel his presense...
Its only when i started doing this did i start to make progress...Beleive me i'm no mystic, and i know very little of mystical experiences...nor do i care if i have them or not...thats not my goal.
But, since i started doing Naam simran in the way described above with Full Love and Devotion (which is the key)...i started noticing twitches, slight pressure, slight itch etc in between my eyebrows through the day and every day...it wouldnt bother me, i actually liked the feeling. I didnt know what this was, and never linked it to my meditation...
a few weeks later during my meditation at the gurdwara i started seeing swirls of purple light, flashes of purple, some white sparks etc and eventually they would take the shape of an eye...the eye would change in size like i am moving towards it or away from it.

Again i didnt care for the experience...knew nothing about what it was and just thought my mind was just doing stuff. Then one day i just googled third eye opening...and low and behold everything i was experiencing was listed on all the websites...

The colour purple/indigo being the colour of the 6th Chakra/third eye chakra.

Just remember, attachment is a powerful thing and keeps you away from God...so when you have these experiences...don;t get attached to them as you won't make any more progress...just forget what you exeperiences...never desire for the experience again and just focus purely on Satnaam.

god bless all on your journeys.
then a few


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## Harry Haller (Feb 23, 2012)

We are different Veer Chazji, I feel I have spent too long in a haze that I am fiercely protective of my alertness and ability to have a mind firmly melded to the world, however I find your posts very informative and hope you find what you are looking for on your path

kudihug


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## chazSingh (Feb 23, 2012)

Luckysingh said:


> A simple answer to a simple question.
> Yes, I do.
> I may be crazy or just another lost soul. But since I have had beliefs in the above- I actually understand bani alot better, including most importantly with what Guru Nanak was actually talking about -BUT....
> We must REMEMBER, on a personal level WE ALL TRANSLATE bani or a hukamnaama into the perspective it fits into our OWN lives.
> ...


 
Satnaam Lucky Singh Ji,

you are not crazy at all, the mystical aspect of sikhi is very strong.
If we want to experience God, we need to start within, then once we start to connect with God within, we will start to unconditionally serve God without (on the outside i.e serving others and his whole creation).. or even better do both at the same time.

But you make the most valid point. We all translate Gurbani differently. Each line of Gurbani will mean something more, the more spiritual progress you make..Gurbani is endless/infinate..the meaning will evolve as you evolve yourself...and you will evolve through Naam Simran/meditation..its one of lifes guarantees.

Keep it up..and keep us and me in the loop of your expeirences/difficulties/obstacles during your meditative journey... This is why Sangat is so powerful


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 24, 2012)

ALL the MAJOR GURDWARAS of CANADA signed this Open Letter to Akal takhat on behalf of Prof Dhunda Ji....  They NOTE that Dhunda is one of the BEST of modern Parcharaks...so the MAJORITY d appreciate his understanding of Gurbani...
ਸਿੰਘ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਗਿ: ਗੁਰਬਚਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ, 15                    ਫਰਵਰੀ 2012
                  ਜਥੇਦਾਰ, ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਕਾਲ ਤਖ਼ਤ ਸਾਹਿਬ,
                  ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ, ਪੰਜਾਬ, ਇੰਡੀਆ
ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ, ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ                    ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਿਹ॥
ਵਿਸ਼ਾ : ਭਾਈ                    ਸਰਬਜੀਤ ਸਿੰਘ ਧੂੰਦਾ ਸੰਬੰਧੀ ਜਾਰੀ ਹੋਏ ਆਦੇਸ਼ ਬਾਰੇ







ਆਪ                    ਜੀ ਵਲੋਂ 3 ਜਨਵਰੀ 2012 ਨੂੰ ਇੱਕ ਆਦੇਸ਼ ਜਾਰੀ ਕੀਤਾ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕ                    ਪ੍ਰੋ: ਸਰਬਜੀਤ ਸਿੰਘ ਧੂੰਦਾ ਜਿਤਨਾ ਚਿਰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਕਾਲ ਤਖ਼ਤ ਵਲੋਂ ਲੱਗੇ ਦੋਸ਼ਾਂ                    ਦਾ ਸਪਸ਼ਟੀਕਰਨ ਨਹੀ ਦਿੰਦੇ, ਉਤਨੀ ਦੇਰ ਉਹ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰ ਨਹੀ ਕਰ ਸਕਦੇ                    ਅਤੇ ਨਾਲ ਹੀ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਸੰਗਤਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਆਦੇਸ਼ ਦਿਤਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦਾ ਸਹਿਯੋਗ                    ਨਾ ਦੇਣ।
ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੀ ਸਰਵ ਉਚਤਾ                    ਨੂੰ ਸਮਰਪਿਤ ਸਿੱਖ ਸੰਗਤਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਭਲੀ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਪਤਾ ਹੈ,                    ਕਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਕਾਲ ਤਖ਼ਤ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਪੰਥ ਦੀ ਜਥੇਬੰਦਕ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਕ ਹੈ। ਸਿੱਖ                    ਸੰਗਤਾਂ ਸਾਹਮਣੇ ਇਹ ਵੀ ਸਪਸ਼ਟ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਕੌਮ ਦੇ ਸੇਵਾਦਾਰ, ਅਹੁਦੇਦਾਰ,                    ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕ, ਪ੍ਰਬੰਧਕ ਅਤੇ ਜਥੇਦਾਰ ਸਾਰੇ ਹੀ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਦੇ ਸਿਧਾਂਤਾਂ ਤੋਂ                    ਉਂੱਪਰ ਨਹੀ ਹਨ। ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਆਦੇਸ਼ ਤੇ ਗੌਰ ਕਰਨ ਤੋਂ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ, ਸਿੱਖ ਸੰਗਤਾਂ                    ਕਿਤਨੇ ਚਿਰ ਤੋਂ ਇਸ ਮੁੱਦੇ ਦਾ ਜਵਾਬ ਮੰਗ ਰਹੀਆਂ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਜੇ ਕਰ ਕੁਝ ਤਖ਼ਤਾਂ                    ਦੇ ਜਥੇਦਾਰ ਖ਼ੁਦ ਪੰਥ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਨਿਤ ਸਿੱਖ ਰਹਿਤ ਮਰਯਾਦਾ ਨੂੰ ਨਹੀ ਮੰਨਦੇ, ਤਾਂ                    ਅਜੇਹੇ ਜਥੇਦਾਰਾਂ ਦਾ ਕਿਸੇ ਪੰਥਕ ਫੈਸਲੇ ਵਿਚ ਸ਼ਾਮਲ ਹੋਣ ਦਾ ਕੀ ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਰਹਿ                    ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ? ਇਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਜਥੇਦਾਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਇਕੱਠ ਵਿਚ ਕੀਤਾ ਕੋਈ ਫੈਸਲਾ ਕਿਵੇਂ                    ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਜਾਂ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦੀ ਰੋਸ਼ਨੀ ’ਚ ਠੀਕ ਮੰਨਿਆਂ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ ?                    ਇਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਵਿਹੂਣੇ ਫੈਸਲੇ ਸੰਗਤਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਸੁਭਾਵਿਕ ਹੀ ਪਰਵਾਣ ਨਹੀ                    ਹੋਣਗੇ।
ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਵੀ ਕਈ ਅਜਿਹੇ ਫੈਸਲੇ ਵਿਵਾਦਾਂ                    ਦੇ ਘੇਰੇ ਵਿਚ ਆ ਚੁੱਕੇ ਹਨ ਅਤੇ ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਕਾਰਨ ਕੌਮ ਵਿਚ ਸਿਧਾਂਤਕ ਏਕਤਾ                    ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਇੰਤਸ਼ਾਰ ਵਧਿਆ ਹੈ। ਜਿਵੇਂ ਕਿ ਸਿੱਖ ਕੌਮ ਦੇ ਲਈ ਵਿਲੱਖਣਤਾ ਦੇ                    ਪ੍ਰਤੀਕ ਨਾਨਕਸ਼ਾਹੀ ਕੈਲੰਡਰ ਨੂੰ ਸੱਤ ਸਾਲ ਲਾਗੂ ਕਰਕੇ ਅਜਿਹੇ ਢੰਗ ਨਾਲ                    ਬਦਲਿਆ ਗਿਆ ਕਿ ਸਿੱਖ ਕੌਮ ਵਿਚ ਰੋਸ ਜਾਗਣਾ ਅਵੱਸ਼ ਸੀ। ਅਜੇਹੇ ਫੈਸਲਿਆਂ                    ਕਾਰਨ ਹੁਣ ਸਿੱਖ ਸੰਗਤਾਂ ਮਹਿਸੂਸ ਕਰਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਸਾਡੀਆਂ ਉਚ ਸਿੱਖ                    ਸੰਸਥਾਂਵਾਂ ਦਾ ਪੂਰਾ ਸਿਆਸੀਕਰਨ ਹੋ ਚੁੱਕਾ ਹੈ। ਅਜਿਹੇ ਸਮੇਂ ਕੌਮ ਦੇ                    ਚੰਗੇਰੇ ਭਵਿਖ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਦੂਰ-ਦ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟਤਾ ਵਾਲੀ ਸੋਚ ਅਤੇ ਉਸਾਰੂ ਕਦਮਾਂ ਦੀ                    ਜਰੂਰਤ ਹੈ।
ਸਿਧਾਂਤਕ ਏਕਤਾ ਨੂੰ ਪਰਪੱਕ ਕਰਨ ਲਈ, ਲੰਬੇ                    ਸਮੇਂ ਤੋਂ ਬਹੁਤ ਸਾਰੀਆ ਸਿੱਖ ਜੱਥੇਬੰਦੀਆਂ ਇਹ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਕਰਦੀਆਂ ਆ ਰਹੀਆਂ ਹਨ                    ਕਿ ਜੱਥੇਦਾਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਨਿਯੁਕਤੀ, ਯੋਗਤਾ, ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਖੇਤਰ, ਸੇਵਾ ਮੁਕਤੀ ਅਤੇ                    ਫੈਸਲਿਆਂ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਬਾਰੇ ਪਾਰਦਰਸ਼ੀ ਨਿਯਮਾਂਵਲੀ ਬਨਾਉਣ ਲਈ ਮੁਢਲੇ ਕਦਮ                    ਸ਼ੁਰੂ ਕੀਤੇ ਜਾਣ। ਇਸ ਪੱਖ ਬਾਰੇ ਸ਼੍ਰੋਮਣੀ                    ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਬੰਧਕ ਕਮੇਟੀ ਦੇ ਆਗੂਆਂ ਦੀ ਅਣਗਹਿਲੀ ਕੌਮ ਨੂੰ ਦਿਨੋ ਦਿਨ                    ਅਣਸੁਖਾਵੀਂ ਸਥਿਤੀ ਵਿਚ ਧਕੇਲਣ ਲਈ ਜਿਮੇਂਵਾਰ ਹੈ। ਇਸ ਨਿਯਮਾਂਵਲੀ ਦੀ                    ਅਣਹੋਂਦ ਕਾਰਨ ਹੌਲੀ ਹੌਲੀ ਸਿੱਖ ਸੰਗਤਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਇਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਫੈਸਲਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਸਤਿਕਾਰ                    ਘੱਟ ਜਾਣਾ ਕੋਈ ਹੈਰਾਨੀ ਵਾਲੀ ਗੱਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈ।
                  ਭਾਈ ਸਰਬਜੀਤ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਧੂੰਦਾ ਪੰਥ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਨਿਤ ਸਿੱਖ ਰਹਿਤ ਮਰਯਾਦਾ ਦੇ ਧਾਰਨੀ                    ਅਤੇ ਬਹੁਤ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਵਸ਼ਾਲੀ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕ ਹਨ। ਭਾਈ                    ਸਰਬਜੀਤ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਧੂੰਦਾ ਵਲੋਂ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਵਿਚਾਰਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦੇ ਸੱਚ                    ਬਾਰੇ ਸਪਸ਼ਟ ਜਾਣਕਾਰੀ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਕਰਕੇ ਸੰਗਤਾਂ ਵਹਿਮਾਂ, ਭਰਮਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਕਰਮਕਾਂਡਾਂ                    ਬਾਰੇ ਸੁਚੇਤ ਹੋ ਰਹੀਆਂ ਹਨ। ਹਮੇਸ਼ਾਂ ਦੀ ਤਰਾਂ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਗਿਆਨ ਵਿਰੋਧੀ ਸੋਚ                    ਵਾਲੇ ਸ਼ਾਇਦ ਇਸ ਆ ਰਹੀ ਤਬਦੀਲੀ ਦੇ ਡਰ ਕਾਰਨ ਘਬਰਾ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ। ਆਪਜੀ ਵਲੋਂ                    ਜਾਰੀ ਕੀਤੇ ਇਕਤਰਫਾ ਆਦੇਸ਼ ਦੇ ਬਾਵਜੂਦ, ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਕਥਾ ਪਰੋਗਰਾਮਾਂ ਵਿਚ,                    ਕੈਨੇਡਾ ਦੀਆਂ ਸੰਗਤਾਂ ਹਰ ਰੋਜ਼ ਹਜਾਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਗਿਣਤੀ ਵਿਚ ਪਹੁੰਚ ਰਹੀਆਂ ਹਨ।                    ਇਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਿਧ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਜਾਰੀ ਕੀਤੇ ਇਸ ਆਦੇਸ਼ ਵਾਲੀ                    ਚਿੱਠੀ ਵਿਚ ਅਖੌਤੀ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਯੋਗ ਕਰਨਾ ਸ਼ੋਭਦਾ ਨਹੀ। ਇਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਦੀ                    ਸ਼ਬਦਾਵਲੀ ਆਦੇਸ਼ ਦੀ ਭਾਵਨਾ ਅਤੇ ਉਦੇਸ਼ ਉਂੱਪਰ ਕਈ ਤਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਸਵਾਲ ਅਤੇ ਸ਼ੰਕੇ                    ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰਦੀ ਹੈ।
ਸੱਚ ਤੇ ਇਨਸਾਫ ਨੂੰ ਸਮਰਪਿਤ ਇਨਸਾਨਾਂ ਅਤੇ                    ਸੰਸਥਾਵਾਂ ਦੇ ਤਰਾਜੂ ਵਿਚ ਸ਼ਬਦਾਂ ਦੀ ਤਰਤੀਬ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਭਾਵਨਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਵਾਰ-ਵਾਰ                    ਕੀਤੇ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਦੀ ਪੜਚੋਲ ਜਿਆਦਾ ਵਜ਼ਨ ਰਖਦੀ ਹੈ। ਇਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਕਾਰਨਾਂ ਕਰਕੇ ਪੰਥ                    ਦੇ ਵਡੇਰੇ ਹਿਤਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਮੁੱਖ ਰਖਦਿਆਂ, ਅਸੀਂ ਆਪ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਾਂ                    ਕਿ ਪ੍ਰੋ: ਸਰਬਜੀਤ ਸਿੰਘ ਧੂੰਦਾ ਵਿਰੁੱਧ 3 ਜਨਵਰੀ 2012 ਨੂੰ ਜਾਰੀ ਕੀਤੇ                    ਆਦੇਸ਼ ਉਪਰ ਮੁੜ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕੀਤੀ ਜਾਵੇ ਅਤੇ ਇਸ ਆਦੇਸ਼ ਨੂੰ ਵਾਪਿਸ ਲਿਆ ਜਾਵੇ ਅਤੇ                    ਅੱਗੇ ਤੋਂ ਕੋਈ ਆਦੇਸ਼ ਜਾਂ ਹੁਕਮ ਜਲਦਬਾਜ਼ੀ ਵਿਚ ਇਕਤਰਫਾ ਜਾਰੀ ਨਾਂ ਕੀਤਾ                    ਜਾਵੇ ਜਿਸ ਨਾਲ ਇਸ ਮਹਾਨ ਸੰਸਥਾ ਦੇ ਮਹੱਤਵ ਨੂੰ ਹੋਰ ਢਾਹ ਲੱਗੇ। ਸਾਡੀਆਂ                    ਸੰਸਥਾਂਵਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਅਜੇਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕਾਂ ਦਾ ਵੱਧ ਤੋਂ ਵੱਧ ਸਨਮਾਨ ਕਰਨਾ ਚਾਹੀਦਾ                    ਹੈ, ਤਾਂ ਜੋ ਇਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਹੋਰ ਸੂਝਵਾਨ ਨੌਜਵਾਨ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕ ਸਿੱਖ ਧਰਮ ਦੇ                    ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰ ਲਈ ਪ੍ਰੇਰਿਤ ਹੋਣ।​ ਸੰਗਤਾਂ ਦੇ ਦਾਸ,
                 Gurdwara Siri Guru Singh Sabha Society, Edmonton, Alberta,                  Canada
*                 Siri Guru Nanak Sikh Gurdwara of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada*
Guru                  Nanak Foundation for Humanity, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
*                 Sikh Federation of Edmonton, Alberta, Canada*
                 United Sikh Federation, Calgary, Alberta
*                 Gurdwara, Sikh Society of Calgary, Alberta, Canada*
Sikh                  Sports Club, Calgary, Alberta, Canada
*                 Pingalwara Society of Ontario (Regd.), Canada*
Drug                  Awareness Foundation, Calgary, Alberta, Canada


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## Luckysingh (Feb 25, 2012)

ChazSingh ji

Reading your post on the naam simran was pleasant and interesting.
Just like you mention- the purple colour, I don't even like purple, so I was a little shocked when I saw it. I say saw it but strangely could feel it. I think you will understand what I mean.
I did the same as you and discovered that it represented awakening the 3rd eye chakra.
I was amazed! 
Apparently different colours represent awakening of different chakras.

I try not to want to read or learn them, as then I fear that I will start looking for them.
I would rather just expect nothing and just wait and see.

I found it challenging to get into at first, as I was researching it quite a bit and had this urge that I needed to do it. Now, I can't get enough of it.

I have experienced a cyan colour as well, although I've deliberately not researched this yet.

The tingling sensations you talk about are completely normal. I think it's because we are listening to our body thus we feel all the very fine nerve impulses.

I have felt warmth and heat moving round different parts, but it's a very pleasant healthy feeling, difficult to fully describe.

Talking about the colours, I think that the colours are a manifestation of sound. The sound being the waheguru mantra or whatever we say.
I've been trying to focus on all the different chakras whilst meditating whilst doing the Mool mantar. I try to focus each section such as Aad saatch, jagad satch, hai bi sach, etc each on a different chakra by focusing the vibration of that sound to the area.
It has been very good and strangely I realise that certain sounds BELONG to a specific chakra. So, I have got 3-4 that I know belong there, and the others I keep changing until I find where they belong.-I will let you know once I have success.

There have been many other experiences, but an interesting one has been certain sounds on occasions occuring at the same time as colour flashes.

After I started the meditation and naam simran, I really wished that I had done this a long time ago, it's like I really needed it, similar to missing jigsaw pieces. Again, I think you will understand what I mean.

The 'eye' that you mentioned- good one. Unfortunately I had read about this earlier, so when I experienced it, I wasn't too sure, although it was very definite.
This is why I try not to read about too much detail beforehand.

But, the problem I have is that I'm quite knowledgable in sciences,and in biology the pineal gland is linked to the 3rd eye/chakra. So, I can't help imagining all chakras as direct parts of anatomy.
With regards to the pineal gland. It is a very small pea shaped gland located between the 2 hemispheres of the brain.It produces melatonin in the dark. So a lack of light causes stimulation. There are also lots of neurons associated with such a small gland that scientists are still learning about. BUT I don't think that colour stimulation associated with it has been directly proven although it has been mentioned!


I discovered something very impressive recently.
Now, interestingly, the pyramids in Egypt were considered the centre of the planet by egyptians, likewise the pineal gland( 3rd eye) is considered like a pyramid by many due to its location in the centre of the brain.
 Now, If you look at the back of a dollar bill, you will see a picture of a pyramid with a single all seeing eye!
This has many explanations including secret messages by freemasons, which do have a huge role in the US goverment along with other societies. (a few years ago, I studied secret societies in some depth).

Many have claimed that this symbol represents the eye of God watching over all, no one seems to know the concrete background.

But its all very interesting, and after starting meditation this information has just come and found a place to fit!

It's pleasing to know that you are trying to achieve these similar goals and it would be good to keep each other posted.


Sat Kartar
Lucky Singh


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## chazSingh (Feb 27, 2012)

Hi lucky Singh,

Thanks for replying back.
Seems you are moving along your meditations very well...its good to hear.
Like you i wish i had started several years back...all those days/years wasted.

As of yet i have not heard any sounds...just the light associated with the Chakras.
The lower charkras are important in that those 'energy centres' need to be balanced in order for the higher chakras to open...the crown chakra being the Divine chakra where connection with the Naam/universal divine energy is established.

The internal Anhad Shabad i'm sure i will atune to when Guru Ji feels i am ready for this step.

Yes, i have read about the pineal gland...i've read it is the gland with which the Soul connects with the Physical body. A fully functioning Pinial gland is paramount when it comes to awakening the third eye which allows you to see 'internally' and assist with connecting with our internal Guru that resides in all of us.

Keep in touch with me...we can share experiences and disucss obstacles that come our way. Remember, the closer you come to God, the more tests that will come your way from the 5 thieves (ego, lust, anger etc) that will try to keep you away from un-locking the 'TRUTH'. Keep them at bay..they'll come in many forms...family/friends..things that will annoy you, upset you, anger you...

I have also read about the pyramid on the US Dollar bill. The single eye being stated as the Eye of god by some...others Call it the sign of the Illuminate...the illuminati being the en-linghtened ones (certain powerful families and bankers of the Federal Reserve- Rockefellas being one family - who are the real people in control of the world as we see it and not the governments). Therefore the sign being that they are the enlightened people that know all, whereas everyone else are un-aware they exist and what they are plotting to do)

They apparently know of the pineal Gland / third eye / chakras / and know that God exists, but Ego has taken over them and they are hell bent on preventing the Mass people to become enlightened...if large amounts of population become enlightened (which is our birth right and TRUE state of being) then these Governments lose all their control. they control the population through fear. 
the Triangle appears on just the one dollar bill...it has 4 1's on the front and 4 1's on the back...multiply 1111 x 1111 = 1234321 (a trianle)...many of the anomilies that are shown on the internet.
They show their power through the olympics (many believe something is going to happen at the london olypics this year)...openeing ceremonies in the past have been done on the 11/11 date...
Look at the design of the olympic stadium...look at the design of the flood lights 
The only stadium in the world that has triangular floodlights.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/50510000/jpg/_50510484_lights.jpg
do they resemble the triangle with illumited eye?


Its a blessing from God to even know that they Exists and that the world is being run by them. Read up on the chemicals that they are pumping into the atmosphere through Chemtrails, the Flouride that they have been putting in our Water Supplies (to give us shiny teeth  ) but this poisen is linked to supressing the pineal Gland...again to prevent people from waking up.

It's all very interesting.
Just keep doing ardaas asking God to assist you with progressing on the spiritual path.
When you do Simran ask Guru Ji to come sit in your heart and do the Simran with you...after all he is the Only doer (Karta Purakh) ... it is only our Ego (mind) which makes us think its us that does anything.
When you become more and more enlightened, you will start becoming more aware of the 'PLAY' that is being played out....it won't affect you so much, and you'll be focussed and ready for the chalenges that lie ahead...


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## SaintSoldier1699 (Feb 29, 2012)

Gyani Ji, do you have any katha of the Jhaur Singh you mentioned in your earlier post?


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## Manni Singh 85 (Feb 29, 2012)

There was protest at Singh sabha gurudwara Edmonton canada. I was there. When dhunda entered darbar sahib. Gurudwara management asked protester to leave and they didn't . And then police came and then the other sangat who were there to listen to dhunda grabbed these protester and those protester were amritdhari. There turban was take off and then the police took them. Police didn't enter darbar sahib. Those guys who grabbed them all were sahejdhari Sikhs. No one was wearing turban.  Dhunda watched all this he never asked them to stop. Such drama took place in front of him.   Protesters were house arrested while dhunda was preaching in our town.  Sat Sri Akal


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 1, 2012)

Manni Singh 85 said:


> There was protest at Singh sabha gurudwara Edmonton canada. I was there. When dhunda entered darbar sahib. Gurudwara management asked protester to leave and they didn't . And then police came and then the other sangat who were there to listen to dhunda grabbed these protester and those protester were amritdhari. There turban was take off and then the police took them. Police didn't enter darbar sahib. Those guys who grabbed them all were sahejdhari Sikhs. No one was wearing turban. Dhunda watched all this he never asked them to stop. Such drama took place in front of him. Protesters were house arrested while dhunda was preaching in our town. Sat Sri Akal


Manni Singh 85 ji is it all good or bad? Sounds good to me that people who wanted to listen did and those who din't, didn't. Granted minor inconvenience for those trying to plug other people's ears or tape some people's mouths!

I listened to Dhunda veer once in Mississauga not by following but as I happen to be at the Gurdwara. He spoke well and I did not detect much out of context. The place was overflowing so I assume itis what sangat wanted too.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Mar 1, 2012)

Mani singh ji,
your post is self explanatory.
Simply being an amrtitdharee/wearing dastaar/kirpan doesnt give one the RIGHT to behave like a gangster and DISRUPT a Diwan in the presence of the SGGS. Gurdwara managements are there for a reason..to make sure order prevails....and the SANGAT MUST OBEY the  Gurdawra managment esp IF they are amrtidharees. If the MAJORITY DONT like the Managment..CHANGE THEM..BUT a Diwan must not be interrupted for any reason whatsoever.
In a previous incident also in a Gurdwara in canada, certain amrtidharees decided to BLOCK the MAJORITY SANGAT from listening to a Kathawachak they didnt like by loudly shouting Waheguru waheguru..and when that didnt work becasue the Management made the Mike volume higher..these MISCREANTS got up and completley DISREGARDING and DISRESPECTING the SGGS parkash and the Granthis repeated pleas to be seated..attacked the STAGE...then the MAJORITY of the sangat was involved and many of these amrtidharees lost their dastaars...IS that the way to show respect for SGGS ??
Its CLEAR these miscreants are in a* MINORITY*...because if they were MAJORITY..no SANGAT would be present to hear Dhunda or Ghagha or Darshan Singh ragi... What they LACK IN NUMBERS..they make up in ROWDISM, vulgarity and shouting or drawing KIRPANS to threaten.
Sikhs have been LOCKED OUT of a Gurdwara in CHICAGO..by a SANT..why havent these people gone there to force the Gurdawra to open to all sangat...is an open question.?? That situation needs such strong arm tactics..BUT then that is a BABA-SANT involved...and hes a Maharpurash etc..in cahoots....so ignore him...????
The Numbers in Dhunda diwans were from 4000 to 6000...how can so many be fooled ?? into sitting down and listen...are they ALL "SEHAJDHAREES" ???
WE must awaken ourselves....not be lured into stupor by vested interests.Gurparsaad to all.


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## Manni Singh 85 (Mar 1, 2012)

Ambarsaria ji. I think this dhunda is creating lots of confusion in people. I heard his katha about meat and it's on YouTube  which is confusive and then in interview on des p{censored}s with mr. Thins he made a confusive statement on Sant Singh Ji Maskeen and then his seniors mr ghagga said that a Sikh shouldn't do simran it's on YouTube as well and dhunda is sitting with ghagga.  These things are making a big confusion amongst lot of people I know.   Dhanwad


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 1, 2012)

Manni Singh ji can you post these videos?

Thanks


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## Manni Singh 85 (Mar 1, 2012)

Sawal jawab Prof. Inder singh ghagga, Bhai sarbjit singh dhunda      - YouTube


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## Manni Singh 85 (Mar 1, 2012)

à¨®à¨¾à¨¸ à¨–à¨¾à¨£ à¨¸à©°à¨¬à©°à¨§à©€ à¨µà¨¿à¨šà¨¾à¨° bhai sarbjit singh ji      - YouTube


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## Manni Singh 85 (Mar 1, 2012)

Professor Sarabjit Singh Dhunda Interview on DesPardesTV Part 6      - YouTube


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 1, 2012)

Manni Singh 85 said:


> Ambarsaria ji. I think this dhunda is creating lots of confusion in people. I heard his katha about meat and it's on YouTube which is confusive


_Veer Manni Singh 85 ji no way I am here to defend a Katha Vachik. I listened to him once and I did not find much wrong and I felt he connected with people with eyes open and not just swaying with eyes closed._



Manni Singh 85 said:


> and then in interview on des p{censored}s with mr. Thins he made a confusive statement on Sant Singh Ji Maskeen


_Veer Manni Singh 85 ji I also watched the interview not that I was interested but so happens the channel and TV were on. He was pushed into answering about how even some famous people have mislead by design or simple human error. Whereas Sant Singh ji Maskeen had again a good style and form to convey messgaes, I was not always so impressed in terms of translations of Gurbani and mixing up with Sakhis, etc. He was not a bad person and that could just be the method or style he chose._



Manni Singh 85 said:


> and then his seniors mr ghagga said that a Sikh shouldn't do simran it's on YouTube as well and dhunda is sitting with ghagga. These things are making a big confusion amongst lot of people I know. Dhanwad


_Veer Manni Singh 85 ji, please define what you understand by Simran and what it entails? I like the tunes but am much less inclined to verbally participate or enjoy excessively loud Harmoniums, tablas and chamte with talliean. But that is just me._

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Manni Singh 85 (Mar 1, 2012)

Ambarsaria ji.  If you listen to sant Singh Ji maskeen's katha. And he explained the simran in them and that's the simran I define.


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## Manni Singh 85 (Mar 1, 2012)

Ambarsaria ji.   I don't want to get into any debate. All I am saying is that dhunda and party is creating confusion.  I should do more simran, so that I can understand dhunda.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Mar 1, 2012)

Actually there is no debate per say...ALL these videos posted have some good points and some not so good points. Mostly what Dhunda is saying is as per SRM and the SRM is NOT Acceptable to Taksalis, sant babas/mahapurash..sderawallahs/nanksariahs/rarewallahs/dhadrianwallahs/chicagowallhs/pehovehwallahs etc and thats whats causing the confusion...which Maryada to follow ?? SGPC and its paid granthis and pujarees are also now in the camp that doesnt follow its own SRM...becasue while the SGPC was entrusted to RUN ?MISSIONARY COLLEGES" to produce Granthis, ardassiahs, kirtaniyas..it FAILED to do so and OUTSOURCED ALL these posts to DERAS and outsiders..and the END RESULT NOW is that 99.9% of the SGPC is staffed by Taksalis and dera products....there is NOT a SINGLE JATHEDAR of the Takhats that studied in a SGPC run Missionary College...(past or near present). The Present Rehrass and Maryada enforced ta Darbar sahib was enforced during the time of jathedar Akal takhat jasbir singh Rodeh who is a Taksali...its to the credit of Jarnail singh bhinderawalleh who despite being the HEAD of the Taksaal and also in complete control of darbar sahib in 1984 REFUSED to ENFORCE his taksal maryada on to Darbar sahib as the darbar sahib is a PANTHIC institution a nd NOT a Taksal gurdwara as Mehta Chowk is...but Rodeh wasnt that great a man...
In such a situation.."confusion" is bound to arise when a person comes along and talks about the SRM as forcefully as Dhunda....he is a STAND OUT and a REBEL....( while Sant singh Maskeen was a FOLLOWER of the Establishment and got his rewards even after death form the Establishment).
SRM is  definitlely despised by the radha soami wallhs/sirsa wallahs/noormehliahwaalhs/ashutosh wallahs as well....

But I too would concur wholeheartedly with Ambarsariah veer that we should refrain from discussing people..dhunda is one among many kathawachaks...we should concentrate on Gurbani VICHAAR so WE BENEFIT...THI:blueturban::singhsippingcoffee:


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## Manni Singh 85 (Mar 3, 2012)

Bhagat Singh ji.  You asked for these videos or you want the protest video?


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## Manni Singh 85 (Mar 3, 2012)

Gyani jarnail Singh ji     What does gurbani say about rebirth or reincarnation ?


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 3, 2012)

Thanks Manni Singh ji. Now I want to see the protest video since you mentioned it


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## Manni Singh 85 (Mar 3, 2012)

Bhagat Singh ji.   I tried to make the video about the protest but then management requested not to make any video. I couldn't make it.   Sorry. But I will try to get the video from protester as he is a good friend of mine.


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## Admin (Mar 3, 2012)

*Admin Note: This thread is now closed. If anyone wants to post something in support to their arguments then simply start a new thread. Thank you for your understanding. Gurfateh!
*


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