# Jhatka In Gurdwaras



## sachbol (Aug 5, 2011)

Waheguruji ka Khalsa Waheguruji ki Fateh,
Many times a goat is slaughterd in Gurdwara permises in Hazur 
Saheb and the head of the poor goat is carried in a bata 
in side the main gurdwara and with the blood of the goat the 
tilak is applied to the Shastrs of Sri Guru Gobind Singhji.

Is it correct as per Sikh Maryada?  If yes then can we do in 
our Gurdwaras. Also if it is correct then why it is not done in
 Harmandar Saheb. It must be stopped or it must be carried
 out in all the Takhats and all Gurdwaras. This is a serious topic
and our Jathedars must give their rulings on it.:happysingh:


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## Archived_Member16 (Aug 5, 2011)

*Previous postings on the subject:*

*Hazur Sahib Tilak Question?*

*Link:* http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/23860-hazur-sahib-tilak-question.html


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## kds1980 (Aug 5, 2011)

sachbol said:


> Waheguruji ka Khalsa Waheguruji ki Fateh,
> Many times a goat is slaughterd in Gurdwara permises in Hazur
> Saheb and the head of the poor goat is carried in a bata
> in side the main gurdwara and with the blood of the goat the
> ...



At present Sikhism is divided in sects.Its better Sikhs should not interfere in the affairs of other Sikhs whom they disagree O/W we will have many ugly scenes at Gurdwara's


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## findingmyway (Aug 5, 2011)

Personally, I don't see how this ritual can fit in with gurmat. It is sacrificial meat which is forbidden as per SRM. It also incorporates worship of something other than Waheguru so again this does not fit in with Gurmat ideology.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 5, 2011)

sachbol said:


> Waheguruji ka Khalsa Waheguruji ki Fateh,
> Many times a goat is slaughterd in Gurdwara permises in Hazur
> Saheb and the head of the poor goat is carried in a bata
> in side the main gurdwara and with the blood of the goat the
> ...



Sach Bol Ji..
WE SIKHS on an INDIVIDUAL CAPACITY at LOCAL LEVEL can take this up...Have you approached any of your local Gurdawaras for ACTION ??Why not get your local Gurdawara Coom or SANGAT pass a resolution  and send to Jathedar Akal takhat ????  IF and when you visit Harmandar sahib or Akal takhat approach the management there to listen to your ideas...and pass the resolution to them....lets US ALL work POSITIVELY to get the SRM implemented at ALL Gurdawaras..


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## aristotle (Aug 6, 2011)

I can recall that a foreign Sikh was thrashed by the local Sikhs of Nanded when he objected to the ritualistic activities going on at Abichalnagar Sahib last year. Sacrificial meat, tilak etc. find no validation in Sikh philosophy.......I wonder if the Jathedars and Sikh lawmakers are sleeping....Zzzzzzzzzzz


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 6, 2011)

aristotle said:


> I can recall that a foreign Sikh was thrashed by the local Sikhs of Nanded when he objected to the ritualistic activities going on at Abichalnagar Sahib last year. Sacrificial meat, tilak etc. find no validation in Sikh philosophy.......I wonder if the Jathedars and Sikh lawmakers are sleeping....Zzzzzzzzzzz



Unforunately THAT sort of LOUTISH behaviour ( mistakenly called Satikaar..Beadbi watch etc ) is the NORM,,,several such thrahsings/face colouring have happened in the Darbar sahib complex/Akal Takhat premsies . Abchalnagar Hazoor Sahib is distant....The most recent thrashing of a sikh by SGPC sewadaars happened just half a month ago...RIGHT beside the Harmandar Sarovar where they distribute Karrah Parshaad...Some time ago the Booksellers CSJS were thrashed and had their faces blackened in Darbar sahib for selling SGGS to a muslim...
To naswer your question..I wonder if our Jathedaars sikh lawmakers are "sleeping"....NO ji..they are NOT SLEEPING..they are IN COMATOSE ICU Condition....ZOMBIES !!! They only work when their REMOTE CONTROL BUTTON is pressed by BADAL/Makkar etc.


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## kds1980 (Aug 6, 2011)

aristotle said:


> I can recall that a foreign Sikh was thrashed by the local Sikhs of Nanded when he objected to the ritualistic activities going on at Abichalnagar Sahib last year. Sacrificial meat, tilak etc. find no validation in Sikh philosophy.......I wonder if the Jathedars and Sikh lawmakers are sleeping....Zzzzzzzzzzz




I don't think Chatka is sacrificial meat ,it is just the way Sikhs preserved the their age old martial tradition

'This Chatka use to happen at Akal Takht, and only recently they [Shromani Gurdwara Parbandak Committee (S.G.P.C.)] stopped it. No, this is a warrior way of ours. If we are to wield a sword on the battlefield, how are we to judge with what power to wield it so we can decapitate our enemy or split opponent in half? To test that [fighting art], 'Shikar' and 'Chatka' are beloved warrior traditions. Only if we have that experience [of Chatka killing] can we learn Shastar Vidiya. Only then we will learn to wield a sword. That is why the great King [Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh] has written “Be initiated into the Khalsa go hunting and preserve Shastar Vidiya any way you can” [from Pracheen Panth Prakash]. If you wish to learn Shastar Vidiya then you must Chatka goats. This is our training method. Singhs have done Chatka from the very start, as it is our tradition. The Gurus told us this is the Kyshatriya way.'
(Singh Sahib Akali Nihang Baba Santa Singh, transcript of interview, 28th October 1999)

http://www.shastarvidiya.org/chatka9.jsp


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 6, 2011)

Kds Ji..In a Battle field situation..who catches the enemies legs..for the "nihung Warrior" while he gives the Chatka stroke to the neck ?? The poor Goat is held by his hind legs by one "Nihung warrior"....another has a string tied to the goats head which he pulls tight..and the third nihung warrior then wields the sword...wow..what shastra vidya is that ??? NO GURU SAHIB hunted like that ? This is CAPTIVE SLAUGHTER. PERIOD. At the very least let the goat run free and let the nihung warriors run after it..then maybe I will beleive the nihung warrior stuff..still only 10% becasue the Goat is not wild, its not allowed compelte freedom..its a captured tame animal...the nihung warriors are just BUTCHERS..plain and simple. The Muslim Kazis do the same thing to cows and buffaloes..their legs are tied up, one will catch the cows tail..another two or three will sit on the poor animal on the ground..then one more will slit its throat...BUT unlike our Nihung Warriors..these people dont say its Training for war..or shastar vidya..they call it Hallal.


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## sachbol (Aug 6, 2011)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Kds Ji..In a Battle field situation..who catches the enemies legs..for the "nihung Warrior" while he gives the Chatka stroke to the neck ?? The poor Goat is held by his hind legs by one "Nihung warrior"....another has a string tied to the goats head which he pulls tight..and the third nihung warrior then wields the sword...wow..what shastra vidya is that ??? NO GURU SAHIB hunted like that ? This is CAPTIVE SLAUGHTER. PERIOD. At the very least let the goat run free and let the nihung warriors run after it..then maybe I will beleive the nihung warrior stuff..still only 10% becasue the Goat is not wild, its not allowed compelte freedom..its a captured tame animal...the nihung warriors are just BUTCHERS..plain and simple. The Muslim Kazis do the same thing to cows and buffaloes..their legs are tied up, one will catch the cows tail..another two or three will sit on the poor animal on the ground..then one more will slit its throat...BUT unlike our Nihung Warriors..these people dont say its Training for war..or shastar vidya..they call it Hallal.



Our Jathedars must come out and stop this practice.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 6, 2011)

Sach Bol Ji...i think the Jathedars have to wake up first.....or be woken up..hope it will happen if the right people win the sgpc elections..if NOT..its a long long sleep..


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## kds1980 (Aug 6, 2011)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Kds Ji..In a Battle field situation..who catches the enemies legs..for the "nihung Warrior" while he gives the Chatka stroke to the neck ?? The poor Goat is held by his hind legs by one "Nihung warrior"....another has a string tied to the goats head which he pulls tight..and the third nihung warrior then wields the sword...wow..what shastra vidya is that ??? NO GURU SAHIB hunted like that ? This is CAPTIVE SLAUGHTER. PERIOD. At the very least let the goat run free and let the nihung warriors run after it..then maybe I will beleive the nihung warrior stuff..still only 10% becasue the Goat is not wild, its not allowed compelte freedom..its a captured tame animal...the nihung warriors are just BUTCHERS..plain and simple. The Muslim Kazis do the same thing to cows and buffaloes..their legs are tied up, one will catch the cows tail..another two or three will sit on the poor animal on the ground..then one more will slit its throat...BUT unlike our Nihung Warriors..these people dont say its Training for war..or shastar vidya..they call it Hallal.



Gyani ji

This is typical argument what veggies give ,but the fact is very large percentage of human beings cannot see blood .Martial races always use to raise their sons like this so they can become mentally tougher .Most of cultures or religions that adopted vegetarianism and stopped killing animals forgot how to fight

You have raise the point of muslims so let me remind you Muslims were always bloody good fighters and always were much more tougher than Hindu or budhists


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## spnadmin (Aug 6, 2011)

What is a "martial race?"


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## princess kaur (Aug 6, 2011)

upto my knowledge this ritual was not started by guru ji and it was started afterwards then why they do this,,,, one side they ban all dis and  on other hand this is done!!!!!!THIS SHOULD BE BANNED!!


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 6, 2011)

kds1980 said:


> Gyani ji
> 
> 
> You have raise the point of muslims so let me remind you Muslims were always bloody good fighters and always were much more tougher than Hindu or budhists



Thats exactly my point jios...the Muslims DONT PRETEND they kill for martial spirit...blah blah..like what the Nihung warrior argument is tryig to project on the goat slaughter in a  captive situation.. To them killing the Cow is just Hallal meat. period. 

( Muslim terrorists did behead Captive Human Priosners though..and in THAT Action the ones involved were PRETENDING they were being brave/warriors for Islam etc etc blah blah..when everyone else saw through it as merely MURDER...of a captured prisoner. NOTHING HEROIC about That. This is mY POINT.)


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 6, 2011)

spnadmin said:


> What is a "martial race?"



This was a MYTH invented by the BRITISH in their quest to Divide and Rule and also USE people as fodder for their cannons.

As far as SIKHS are concerned their "Martialness" oozes out of GURBANI they IMBIBE DAILY as part of their LIVES....SOORA so pehchanneyeah jo larreh DEEN KE HET...The British diverted this Loyalty towards self preservation..now India also used this same tactic to make use of Sikh soldiers to fight the Chinese and the pakistanis on the High Glaciers of the Himalayas and the Skies over Kashmir...rest of the army is for peacetime salary collection only. This is the ONLY "favourable" point in DG 's camp.

There is a scholarly article on this topic at sikh sundesh web site maintained by Charanjit Singh bal.


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## spnadmin (Aug 6, 2011)

Thanks for bringing this to the forefront. You are very brave to say it like it is!


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## kds1980 (Aug 7, 2011)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Thats exactly my point jios...the Muslims DONT PRETEND they kill for martial spirit...blah blah..like what the Nihung warrior argument is tryig to project on the goat slaughter in a  captive situation.. To them killing the Cow is just Hallal meat. period.
> 
> ( Muslim terrorists did behead Captive Human Priosners though..and in THAT Action the ones involved were PRETENDING they were being brave/warriors for Islam etc etc blah blah..when everyone else saw through it as merely MURDER...of a captured prisoner. NOTHING HEROIC about That. This is mY POINT.)



I don't care what they call it but the fact is they are keeping the tradition of Jhatka alive in Sikhism O/W vegetarianism is spreading like a wild fire in sikhism.
Recently my cousin told me that all his family became vegetarian under the influence of some sikh sant.The funny thing these are the same people who use to hunt and do Jhatka of Goats in their home .

AS far calling it ritual is  concerned there are many things which we can call ritual.

How about Parshad karaana? I don't understaqnd why only Jhatka of hazur sahib comes under attack so many times


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## sachbol (Aug 7, 2011)

princess kaur said:


> upto my knowledge this ritual was not started by guru ji and it was started afterwards then why they do this,,,, one side they ban all dis and  on other hand this is done!!!!!!THIS SHOULD BE BANNED!!



*Yes we all agree*


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## kds1980 (Aug 7, 2011)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> This was a MYTH invented by the BRITISH in their quest to Divide and Rule and also USE people as fodder for their cannons.
> 
> As far as SIKHS are concerned their "Martialness" oozes out of GURBANI they IMBIBE DAILY as part of their LIVES....SOORA so pehchanneyeah jo larreh DEEN KE HET...The British diverted this Loyalty towards self preservation..now India also used this same tactic to make use of Sikh soldiers to fight the Chinese and the pakistanis on the High Glaciers of the Himalayas and the Skies over Kashmir...rest of the army is for peacetime salary collection only. This is the ONLY "favourable" point in DG 's camp.
> 
> There is a scholarly article on this topic at sikh sundesh web site maintained by Charanjit Singh bal.



The exact word should have been Martial communitties.The britishers were Practical genius that's why they only selected martial communitties to serve them.This kept Indian army divided and Indian army was never able to revolt.
The martial communitties were selected because most of them use to raise their sons in the way so they can become warriors,so preference to them  was obvious

As far India is concerned I am sorry to say but India was never interested in this type of preserving martial communities .Sikhs are now only 10-12% of Indian army ,do you actually believe that only these 10% are patrolling Indian borders in harsh conditions while others are taking only their pay checks

India adopted modern intellectual approach and result is in front of India.Indian army  is now facing shortage of 14,000 officers .Army always need best quality of men and this best quality is not interested in joining the army for them MNC jobs or moving out is their choice .On the other hand poor quality is applying for jobs for army which army is not interested in taking .The interesting factor is Pakistani army which is almost half of Indian army's size never complained about shortage of officers


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## Chaan Pardesi (Aug 7, 2011)

KDS1980.

Sadly, it is ironic that although tyhe back boone of the SRM is from the teachings of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and rehatnamas related to his contemporaries, trhe very plaace which is his Takhat, @ hazoor sahib has snubbed the  entire Panth and continues to insist its own rituals  that it passes off as the Local maryada.

But I like the suggestions  put forward by Giani Ji, take up the matter at all levels possible.Do not be frightened off by louts or  local self styled gangsters,  or threats...bide your time Guru Ji will be with you if you are doing the righteous actions.

I have has one such experiences when one raises the awarness of the sikhs, then some self styled goon will emerge , he may not even know how to write, but he will says he is right but  the other is wrong because he will claim  the  person who says  the right thing as seen  from maryadic point .... is a liar, owner of  alcoholic  factories etc, carrying  fake ids, etc..just worry not...go your way, Guru Ji will be with you ...


Sadly, our instituitions  have  side tracked and allowed many issues to be hang in the air and  pendeing that we have so much issues..these days ...


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## kds1980 (Aug 7, 2011)

Chaan Pardesi said:


> KDS1980.
> 
> Sadly, it is ironic that although tyhe back boone of the SRM is from the teachings of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and rehatnamas related to his contemporaries, trhe very plaace which is his Takhat, @ hazoor sahib has snubbed the  entire Panth and continues to insist its own rituals  that it passes off as the Local maryada.
> 
> ...



At present all sikh sects claim that they are the one with genuine version of Sikhism,so what should a common sikh do?If people will point fingers at them then they could point fingers to many sikh sects and their rituals.


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## aristotle (Aug 7, 2011)

kds1980 said:


> At present all sikh sects claim that they are the one with genuine version of Sikhism,so what should a common sikh do?If people will point fingers at them then they could point fingers to many sikh sects and their rituals.


I believe that the common Sikh should follow the SRM and not the 'Babas' and 'Singh Sahibs'. There is no place for sects or any sub-groups within Sikhism, The Khalsa is a 'Panth', an institution. The question is not of pointing fingers at someone but maintaining one's own religion, anything that is against the Gospel of Guru Granth Sahib and the SRM is against Sikhism and needs to be dealt strongly with.  
In no religion other than Sikhism as in SRM are the religious and physical rules such clearly stated and maintained without paradox, Muslims have the voluminous Hadiths, In Jews and Christians too are scattered all over the scripture and most times very vague, Eastern religions cannot even boast of a single source of religious instruction. The SRM is a light and clear book, an advantage to our side, we must maintain and uphold its message among ourselves.
One in the Panth.
Waheguru
animatedkhanda1


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 7, 2011)

Aristototle Ji...exactly and aptly put.
SIKHS that follow the SRM ar mainstream and have no need to justify anything to nayone..esp the solinter derawadees and jathedbandis. Guur Gobind Singh ji founded the GURU KHALSA PANTH under SGGS. period. all sects, deras, cults came later and are of no consequence...


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## kds1980 (Aug 8, 2011)

aristotle said:


> I believe that the common Sikh should follow the SRM and not the 'Babas' and 'Singh Sahibs'. There is no place for sects or any sub-groups within Sikhism, The Khalsa is a 'Panth', an institution. The question is not of pointing fingers at someone but maintaining one's own religion, anything that is against the Gospel of Guru Granth Sahib and the SRM is against Sikhism and needs to be dealt strongly with.
> In no religion other than Sikhism as in SRM are the religious and physical rules such clearly stated and maintained without paradox, Muslims have the voluminous Hadiths, In Jews and Christians too are scattered all over the scripture and most times very vague, Eastern religions cannot even boast of a single source of religious instruction. The SRM is a light and clear book, an advantage to our side, we must maintain and uphold its message among ourselves.
> One in the Panth.
> Waheguru
> animatedkhanda1



Aristotle ji

Sikhism being divided in sects is reality.Its better to live in real world rather than theoritical one which we have in mind.

As far SRM is concerned I agree with it but the problem is when something does not suite your mind in SRM then sikhs start giving arguments against it.

Here are some example

SRM is created in 1945

SRM is man made

SRM was not approved by the whole panth

etc

so its much better we accept diversity in Sikhism for the sake of unity.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 8, 2011)

KDS Ji wrote:....As far SRM is concerned I agree with it  but the problem is when something does not suite your mind in SRM then  sikhs start giving *arguments against it.*

Here are some example   *are these 'arguments "" ??? Funny definition of argument .*.

SRM is created in 1945...........*.so it ISNT ??  whats wrong with this ??*

SRM is man made..........*So it ISNT ?? who made it then ??*

SRM was not approved by the whole panth.....IT WAS...and IS.... 

The ONLY 2 members of the ORIGINAL Comittee.... to oppose it in 1945 were BSB Randhir singh of AKJ and Sant Kartar Singh of Taksaal..BOTH disagreed on the Hallal-MEAT part ONLY. THese 2 groups Still OPPOSE..the SRM..but now they are in the Company of a thousand and one other "Baby Saadhs/deras/taksaals/jathas" who in turn have give birth to their very OWN MARYADAS...like nanksaree maryada...Rarrehwalle Maryada..Dhadriwallhee Maryada, ram rahim maryada, Asutosh maryada, Beas Maryada..Bhaniara Sadah Maryada....etc etc etc..and a few "NEW BABY SAADHS " are born very month in Punjab..and Haryana etc etc...Some are nearer to SRM..some are Farther..thats the ONLY Difference between these derawadees and Jathas.

2. Secondly in a travesty of sorts...due to the GROSS and almost Criminal NEGLIGENCE of the SGPC....no elections for almost like 25 Years at one time etc etc...the VERY Jathas/Taksaals that REJECTED the SRM of SGPC and AKAL TAKHAT managed to INFILTRATE these two Institutions via their Granthis,Ragis...ardassiahs trained from TAKSAAL and AKJ instead of the SGPC Missionary Colleges as they should have been. sewadaars etc etc and now these CONTROL the Akal takhat and other Takhats and the SGPC. Thats is why the SGPC/Takhats  are now in a mess and the Jat decisons are universally not accepted by all sikhs... NOT a SINGLE Granthi/Ragi/Ardassiah or JATHEDAR at present is from the SGPC Missionary College..each and every single one is either Taksalli or AKJ andthese sit in the SGPC Dharam parchaar comitees as well. Recently there was an attempt to recruit three Misionary college Trained  Granthis for darbar sahib..an attempt that was fOILED by vested interests controlling sgpc. SGPC President Jagir Kaur herself is Baba of a Dera Begowaal.. RECENT Past .jathedars like pooran singh, Vedanati, present Jathedar Gurbachan singh all are TAKSALIS. And these "internal saboteurs" have been busy implementing Takslai/AKJ Maryadas in Takhats and SGPC Gurdawars..thats why so many SRM Violations liek Ghee Jyots, idosl, akhand paatsh on Pir graves, Baba smaadhs etc etc taking place so regularly all over. Now SGPC Electiosn the Baba Federation called SANT SAMAAJ has an agreement  with the Badal dal to share SEATS...so future SGPC will have a large BABA-DERA NEXUS in the SGPC !! 99% of SGPC aspirants are non rehatwaan...anyway or baba chelas... Thsi is a fact undisputable...and reason for a New SINGH SABHA LEHR or Movement to cleanse the SGPC and takhats and RESTORE the SRM.There are Awakened Sikhs in the Diaspora even if Indian Sikhs are comatose by Baba drugs...and Badal corruption...

etc

so its much better we accept diversity in Sikhism for the sake of unity. NO JI..I dotn agree with this.....then we might as wella ccept the BEAD, SIRSA..ASHUTOSH..Bhaniaras and all....for "unity" and NUMBERS running into millions ????


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## sachbol (Aug 8, 2011)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> KDS Ji wrote:....As far SRM is concerned I agree with it  but the problem is when something does not suite your mind in SRM then  sikhs start giving *arguments against it.*
> 
> Here are some example   *are these 'arguments "" ??? Funny definition of argument .*.
> 
> ...



HEADS OF ALL TAKHTS MUST MEET AGAIN AND AGAIN TO HAVE ONE AND ONLY ONE RAHIT MARYADA IN ALL SIKH GURDWARAS. THEN IT MUST BE FIRST PRACTISED IN ALL TAKHTS SO AS OTHER GURDWARAS MUST FOLLOW.japposatnamwaheguru:


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## kds1980 (Aug 8, 2011)

> SRM is created in 1945............so it ISNT ?? whats wrong with this ??



So there was no SRM for 18th century sikhs? SRM used to pass orally from one generation to another .It was after years of  research that Akal takht decided  to set up one single maryada for the panth.the exact word will be Maryada was standardised not created.



> SRM is man made..........So it ISNT ?? who made it then ??



If I am not wrong SRM was made by Guru gobind singh but with the time  so many different versions were created ,by saying SRM as man made we are saying that uncut hair,halal, and other kurehits were introduced by SGPC 



> so its much better we accept diversity in Sikhism for the sake of unity. NO JI..I dotn agree with this.....then we might as wella ccept the BEAD, SIRSA..ASHUTOSH..Bhaniaras and all....for "unity" and NUMBERS running into millions ???



Do sirs wala baba,Ashutosh ,Bhaniara's accept themselves as part of Sikhism? A sikh sect means who accept basic tenants of Sikhism not just any baba or dera


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## sachbol (Aug 8, 2011)

Why our Takhats have different maryadas?


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## Chaan Pardesi (Aug 8, 2011)

I am sorry to say, exactly as  individuals wrangle here, was the SRM wrangled about to get one' s own recognition.The MAJORITY of the Panth accepted it after  almost 20 years  and more of  discussions and preparation.The Maryada was already in existence, but some adulteration was  also taking place as Giani Ji has touched upon.Many  Nirmala, sadh practices,Arya samajist activities along with  brahmin based sadh groups were designing to ruin the  right and true spirit of Sikhi.

The Sikh intellectual recognised the nefarious designs and  actions to constrict Sikh identity back into the  fold of Hinduism and other various branches of many persuasions, with strands of Sikhi and  mostly Guru Granth used as the attracting pole; thus the need to standardise the maryada was imperative, in order to save the Sikh identity and also preserve the true message of Guru Gobind Singh and the  Guru sahibaan.

This is nothing new or different to the law and order of any country or other religions.The fact remains the majority of the Sikhs adhered to and accepted the maryada- which even the  small segments trying to impose their own nonsense should have  followed- the majority!

But sadly, as said the failure of the  SGPC and the infiltration by the sant samajists types, into the premier oraganisation of the Sikhs, created red herrings and  diverted the attention of the Panth from the real issues, and all have now began chasing political chairs.Because of the political weightage, the sant samaj[the current days nirmnala, arya samajist  etc types] has managed to throw its weight around,  and  persuaded, those who were seeking opportunities, to start saying the SRM was "never agreed " by the majority!
This is a total travesty of historical and facts.It was a very small and insignificant  minority that tried to hold the majority of Sikhs in ransom and  impose their own  ideas.

The  pluralism of Sikhism lies intact, but it is the small groups that are causing the  disunity and wrecking sikh aspirations to be united.Sadly, many of those in the large Sikh institutions are adherents of one sadh or another.This  causes more issues.Even looking at local Gurduaras abroad, when one surveys, most of the parbandhaks are clean shaven -MONEs- then how can one expect them to implement the central rules of the Sikh sidhant, when they themselves have no understanding of it nor the will to follow it?

Recently, I cam across one such president of a Sikh gurduara- who was happily using terms such as murtad, kaffir...etcc, and he had no clue that as Sikhsim is an independent religion, such terms are alien  and not applicable in Sikhi!

Sikhism  did not kick out the small groups , quite the contrary told them to adhere to the majority.But because the SGPC and main stream became locked into a situation where their own'

I see here  the situation similar to one like where a small majority disagrees with some  law being passed by the majority, and once it goes through, the minority then lamants that it was accepted by all.Exactly   that is what those Sikhs who are followers of the sadh groups doing now.

As I see it, these small groups should accept the majority  and then sat the secen for a dialogue, where these issues can be ironed out sensibly and agreed  accomodating the righteous priciple and values  per sikhi religion.But the problem is these groups KNOW that their  own views will not stand up to the scrutiny of the four principles used to determine the maryada. So their  maryadas  etc will not get through as they have  individual values not that of Gurbani and Guru sahibaan.

So what one does , when they cannot win their own way, then confuse the other side and people  who are ever willing scapgoats to fight over irresponsibly, while the groups will sit aside and pick up the results of the pickings!

This is no way explains all, but it is a minbute attempt as the subject in discussion is  very wide and sensitive and has to be 190% accurate according to the Gurbani, not tittle tattle decsions of individuals.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 8, 2011)

The deras like ashutosh or Sirsa raam rahim may not claim to be "sikhs" per se..BUT its a FACT that MAJORITY of the followers are "SIKHS" ? How do one distinguish..say between a "Gurdwara with SGGS Parkash..and a  Second Gurdwara with a SGGS Parkash + Ganesh Moortee/or Guru nanak Statue Parkash at Par with SGGS....and lots of "Sikhs" in sangat listening to sggs paath...and a "Pandaal where Baba Asutosh is "parkash" on stage and the very same "Sikhs" are also in Sangat !! in ALL 3 places ?? What makes one place "SIKH" and the other NOT SIKH ?? I have personally seen more "Sikhs" in Dastaars at BEAS than in a Gurdwara ?? Only difference was that at the Gurdwara the SGGS was on Palki..and in Beas the Dehdharee sat on Stage !! Audience was the same people...and these same ones complete with gatras and all also matha tek and charrah chadars at muslim graves...No more a question of WHO CLAIMS WHAT...its the "SIKHS" who are at fault....Chelleh jaan Chharrapp !!!


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## aristotle (Aug 9, 2011)

The SRM was validated and approved by the 'Sarbat Khalsa' and was a direct result of the sacrifices and martyrdom suffered by the Sikh brotherhood during the 'Gurudwara Sudhar Lehar'. The dera people cannot digest the fact that Sikhism is the only community in the world to have a uniform and rational code-of-conduct approved by the 'whole' community. The task on us is to educate the whole community about the advantages and merits of the SRM, open ourselves to discussion, and sooner all the communities of the world will wish they too had a a code-of-conduct on the lines of SRM. May the day come soon.....
Waheguru

:interestedsingh:


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## Randip Singh (Jun 30, 2015)

aristotle said:


> The SRM was validated and approved by the 'Sarbat Khalsa' and was a direct result of the sacrifices and martyrdom suffered by the Sikh brotherhood during the 'Gurudwara Sudhar Lehar'. The dera people cannot digest the fact that Sikhism is the only community in the world to have a uniform and rational code-of-conduct approved by the 'whole' community. The task on us is to educate the whole community about the advantages and merits of the SRM, open ourselves to discussion, and sooner all the communities of the world will wish they too had a a code-of-conduct on the lines of SRM. May the day come soon.....
> Waheguru
> 
> :interestedsingh:



Excellent post Aristotle ji!!


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