# Responding To The Objections Raised By Sahil Ji



## simpy (Mar 30, 2007)

*Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,*

*Please forgive me for causing any inconvenience.*



*Responding to the Objections Raised by Respected Sahil Makkar Ji*

*His Claims, Objections and my Observations and Response: *

*1.**(SAHIL MAKKAR SAYS)You have to see God before you can do real Naam Simran.*
*My response: GURBANI IS NIRANKAAR. What else he is trying to prove us? We have our Guru-“THE LIVING JOTE” what else we need to see?*

*Guru and Nirankaar is always with everybody, NOW IF SOMEONE CANNOT SEE, NOBODY ELSE CAN GIVE THEIR OWN GLASSES TO THE OTHER PERSON TO SEE IT. WE CAN ONLY SHARE OUR EXPERIENCE.*

*And as Gurbani says, to see the truth we need to come under Guru/God’s Hukam.*

*ikv sicAwrw hoeIAY ikv kUVY qutY pwil ]*
*hukim rjweI clxw nwnk iliKAw nwil ]*

*swcw swihbu swcu nwie BwiKAw Bwau Apwru ]*
*AwKih mMgih dyih dyih dwiq kry dwqwru ]*
*Pyir ik AgY rKIAY ijqu idsY drbwru ]*
*muhO ik bolxu bolIAY ijqu suix Dry ipAwru ]*
*AMimRq vylw scu nwau vifAweI vIcwru ]*
*krmI AwvY kpVw ndrI moKu duAwru ]*
*nwnk eyvY jwxIAY sBu Awpy sicAwru ]*

*i can go on and on…….*
*Gurbani tells everything in very clear words, NOW IF SOMEONE DOES NOT WANT TO READ AND SEE THAT ME NEECH CANNOT DO ANYTHING, INFACT NOBODY ELSE CAN DO ANYTHING……*

*2.**He claims to be a BrahmGyani. (ALL HIS POSTS ARE CRYING OUT LOUD-I KNOW EVERYTHING, YOU ALL DON’T)*
*My Response: i am not seeing any quality of a Brahgyani in him(again solely my observation). *
*Guru Sahib Says: *

*bRhm igAwnI kY DIrju eyk ]*
*i do not see dheeraj even anywhere near him. Look at how restless he is to get an answer, where all my posts are clearly stating everything. Well Saadh Sangat Ji, is this a LAKSHAN OF A BRAHMGYANI AS HE IS CLAIMIMG TO BE?????*

*bRhm igAwnI kY nwhI AiBmwn ]*

*bRhm igAwnI bMDn qy mukqw ]*
*And he wants others to respond so that he can continue…*

*Isn’t *

*bRhm igAwnI eyk aUpir Aws ]*
*bRhm igAwnI kw nhI ibnws ]*
*bRhm igAwnI kY grIbI smwhw ]*
*bRhm igAwnI praupkwr aumwhw ]*
*bRhm igAwnI kY nwhI DMDw ]*
*bRhm igAwnI ly Dwvqu bMDw ]*
*bRhm igAwnI kY hoie su Blw ]*
*bRhm igAwnI suPl Plw ]*
*bRhm igAwnI sMig sgl auDwru ]*
*nwnk bRhm igAwnI jpY sgl sMswru ]*




*Anyways it is all his own problems; nobody can free anybody from the shackles of Maya but Waheguru.*

*Again my oservation: he does not understand Gurmukhi and all this knowledge of Gurbani he claims to have is borrowed. Saadh Sangat Ji he claims to be an ALL KNOWER, how long it can take to an all knower to learn a language(Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji knew many languages so perfectly). Before one uses Gurbani to prove his/her point, i think it is very essential that one must have read ALL GURBANI-*

*PURE GUR KI PURI DIKHEYAA......**
*

*3. He used a few Lines from certain Shabads and plainly used them to prove his own points: *

*what happens when a true Saint comes into our life.*
*My response: There is a lot of times Guru Sahibaan has mentioned in Gurbani- WE HAVE TO FOLLOW GURU’S TEACHINGS, OTHERWISE NOTHING:*

*Like:*
*syvk isK pUjx siB Awvih siB gwvih hir hir aUqm bwnI ]*
*gwivAw suixAw iqn kw hir Qwie pwvY ijn siqgur kI AwigAw siq siq kir mwnI ]1]*
*bolhu BweI hir kIriq hir Bvjl qIriQ ]*
*hir dir iqn kI aUqm bwq hY sMqhu hir kQw ijn jnhu jwnI ] rhwau ]*
*Awpy guru cylw hY Awpy Awpy hir pRBu coj ivfwnI ]*
*jn nwnk Awip imlwey soeI hir imlsI Avr sB iqAwig Ehw hir BwnI ]2]*

*and many more times…*
*He is totally ignoring all that goes against his own theory. *

*You have to see God before real naam simran happens.*
*My response: repeating again- Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Nirankaar- Bani is Nirankaar…….*
*What else proof do we need, If others cannot see that nobody can help…..*

*He was supporting Respected Balbir Ji, for disrespecting the Kirtan Pratha. He was supporting his theory that outer Kirtan is not important, you have to see God to listen to real Kirtan.*
*My response: Again Bani is Nirankaar and all the true Sikhs respect Kirtan, every society, every faith has people who misuse certain traditions, so we also have some people who do, BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE KIRTAN NOT-SACRED. *

*kir ikrpw sMqn scu kihAw ]*
*srb sUK iehu Awnµdu lihAw ]*
*swDsMig hir kIrqnu gweIAY ]*
*khu nwnk vfBwgI pweIAY ]*


*hir kIrqnu suxY hir kIrqnu gwvY ]*
*iqsu jn dUKu inkit nhI AwvY ]*

*May i ask Saadh Sangat Ji, if real Kirtan is being listened deep within (inside) by Sahil Ji, why is he so so so anxiously waiting for my reply????? i know and in my case(forgive me please) it does not take me more than nine seconds to know the response, other person says/writes it or not…………and I am not even close to a Brahmgyani, just a learner myself, only trying to do GURU JI DI SEVA WITHOUT ANY SELF INTEREST.*



*THIS IS ALL SAADH SANGAT JI,*

*PLEASE FORGIVE ME.*

*FOR SIKHS PERFECT MASTER IS DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI............*












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## sahilmakkar1983 (Mar 30, 2007)

GuruFateh

Great.. Great.. really great..

First of all, My reason to be on this forum.. is not to tell u about my master.. thats why I have never put the name of my master n WILL NEVER PUT.. Because master can be anyone who can show u the GOD...
But reason is that .... I really feel a big woe.. when I see that NO ONE IS FOLLOWING OUR GREAT SGGS..
ONLY GIVING OUTER(TRADITIONAL) RESPECT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR SGGS.

*OK U TELL ME WHERE ITS WRITTEN THAT, LIVING GURU IS NOT NECESSARY..
AND I WILL TELL U WHAT ACTUAL BANI IS. from SGGS...
(AS I HAVE ALREADY TOLD U THAT BANI IS WITHIN US.. and THAT BANI u call it SHABAD/NAAM/COSMIC VIBRATION.. AND THAT BANI IS NIRANKAR.. and if u have experienced that BANI.. then u have experienced NIRANKAR.)
*
BUT EACH N EVERY LINE OF SGGS WE NEED TO IMPLEMENT IN OUR LIFE
M not giving my own theories.. I strictly followed SGGS in my replies..
First u called me misinterpreting our great scripture...
I was anxiously waiting for ur replies..because I found no responses from ur side whenever I put QUOTES that proves some thing to u....u were ignoring again and again... Yes I need to improve SABAR part in me.. I will ask GOD to give me more SABAR.


*I never cried out that i know everything.. *but i accepted ur points and waited for ur responses.. I said that u know everything.. but u r ignoring  many things from SGGS,
OK tell me , the lines that put from SGGS.. are they new to u???? I think u must have read it 100 nos of times.. but never emphasised on that.. I m just telling u to read it again...
I THINK U MUST HAVE READ DIB-DRISHTI/DASAM-DWAAR(TENTHDOOR) no of times.. BUT DID U EVER THINK THAT HOW MY TENTH DOOR WILL OPEN.. AND HOW I WILL GET THE AMRIT.. I THINK NEVER.. THATs why i kept putting that lines..only encourage u to emphasise on that lines again

*I generally replied to the lines that u put*.. (mostly when u put page-no with that).. I cant understand this type of punjabi.. *
ikv sicAwrw hoeIAY ikv kUVY qutY pwil ]*
*hukim rjweI clxw nwnk iliKAw nwil ]

**If u give me page-no I will surely reply for such things..*
*
sometime even after knowing page-no .....i never replied to lines that u explored to us.. because each n every line in SGGS is great GYAN.. but I always asked u to explain the lines..
I give u preference to explain each n every line..
Because in each n every line that u put there were so many-things that explains how necessary a guru is in our life
so that we can understand what u want to convey... 


U SAID .. WE NEED TO FOLLOW GURU's TEACHINGS...
*and i only tried to explore guru's teaching to u..  did i give my own theory.
I again invite u to interpret that lines again.. Ask questions on that lines..
but please DONT JUST IGNORE THE LINES OF SGGS... I KNOW U WILL NEVER INTERPRET THAT LINES(Sorry for that.. it can be wrong thinking too)*


AGAIN I WOULD ASK U THE BASIC QUESTION:::
WHAT IS SIKH according to SGGS

waiting for ur reply,
Sahil Makkar




*



Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,*
> 
> *Please forgive me for causing any inconvenience.*
> 
> ...


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 1, 2007)

> First of all, My reason to be on this forum.. is not to tell u about my master.. thats why I have never put the name of my master n WILL NEVER PUT.. Because master can be anyone who can show u the GOD...
> But reason is that .... I really feel a big woe.. when I see that NO ONE IS FOLLOWING OUR GREAT SGGS..
> ONLY GIVING OUTER(TRADITIONAL) RESPECT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR SGGS.
> 
> *OK U TELL ME WHERE ITS WRITTEN THAT, LIVING GURU IS NOT NECESSARY..*


 
Oh good grief. I am starting to feel big woe already. Surinder Kaur Cheema is correct in the other thread saying that Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a living Guru. If you have some secret human guru somewhere, why do you care what Sikhs are doing or not doing? Because you are not a Sikh if you have a master outside of Guruji. Simple. End of every debate.


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## rosethorne (Apr 1, 2007)

*Dear Khalsa ji,*
*In my view Sahilji have given the idea that who is his master. Because only a Nirankari can write this NIRANANKAR in bold letters. He Showed his love for NIRANAKAR as a Nirankari. They can learn words of SGGS Maharaj ji but never can reach to the truth. May god don't let them to go to Hell but sure in my view. My wishes to Sahilji. And Sahilji please leave this site. *


*(AS I HAVE ALREADY TOLD U THAT BANI IS WITHIN US.. and THAT BANI u call it SHABAD/NAAM/COSMIC VIBRATION.. AND THAT BANI IS NIRANKAR.. and if u have experienced that BANI.. then u have experienced NIRANKAR.)*






[/quote]


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 1, 2007)

YouTube - Shaheed Bhai Fauja Singh Tribute

YouTube - The Jathedar created by Khalsaforce.net






*13 Shaheed Singhs killed by Nirankaris in attack in Amritsar 1978.*


*Nirankaris are boycotted from the Panth after 1978. You have no right to quote Gurbani or teach Sikhs.*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 2, 2007)

GuruFateh

No doubts, surinder behan in other thread said very well, that u must know gurumukhi very well to describe the things u want to,
and I said again n again, I accept n agree that u must have read SGGS more than me, thats why I always say that u read gurubani n find out, but behan just emphasise on the things I told about  GOD(seeing)...
KABIR JI VERY WELL SAID, 
TERA MERA MANUVA KAISE EK HOE RE,
TU KAHE HE KAGAAZ LEKHI, MEIN KAHU HU AKHIN DEKHI..
so sister i want to say, that what ever m saying i have seen, not only read, ya i have read, then i come to know why gurubani is saying this lines...

See gurubani explains so much things::: I will just list out some:::
1>. Gurubani is for the people, who are already initiated , SGGS guides all of us, if u have guru then how to follow on, what is value of GURU,
2>. Importance of human body, kirtan, satsang.
3>, What actual SUKH is, though SGGS also says that for SUKH u have to go for NAAM-SIMRAN... WHAT IS RELIGION, WHAT IS BHAKTI
4>. Reading of scriptures, SGGS tells that scriptures are to read, but not only to read, if u stick only to read then it will nt give u anything.
5>. IT tells that GURU is needed, without guru one cannot reach his destiny(GOD),
 BIN GURU KINNE NA PAYA, BIN GURU KINE NA PAYA.
6>. IT tells what FAKE GURUS r, hw FAKE/greedy so called renderers fo RELIGION decieve us.
7>. IT tells what TRUE GURU is, what happens when a true guru comes to our life. HE SHOW US GOD within us,

n many more things about great bhagats, that  things are to inspire us on  the "panth '(PATH).

But i have found a serious issue here is that, our surinder behan is not at all interested in knowing .. what way guru-sahiban wants to tell us,

I would ask again, where it is written that we dont need guru, in gurubani only..
and waiting for most basic question ..

WHAT IS SIKH(Kammal he 2 mahine ho gaye, par hale tak answer nahi aaya)

GURUFATEH.


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 2, 2007)

*



Sahilmakkar1983 writes, "But i have found a serious issue here is that, our surinder behan is not at all interested in knowing .. what way guru-sahiban wants to tell us,

I would ask again, where it is written that we dont need guru, in gurubani only..
and waiting for most basic question ..

Click to expand...

*What is unclear? Surinder Kaur Ji has told you our ShabadGuru Sahib Ji is living and complete. What causes you to assume there is no Guru in Sikhi? Where did you get the belief that without some dedhari master/baba/guru, Sikhi presumes to have no need for Guru? You are presenting things in a distorted way to prove a false point. Why are you doing this?



> *Surinder Kaur Cheema writes, "We have our Guru-“THE LIVING JOTE” what else we need to see?*


You keep asking for answers. Maybe you're only waiting for answers you want. Answer is very simple. A Sikh is a disciple of the living Jyote in Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and no one else. So whose disciple are you? That is the real question. 

All these elements, the Shabad, the Guru, the Gurbani, the Naam-Gurmantara are all one eternally alive and ever-present Jyote.


> ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਇਸੁ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਕਰਮਿ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਏ ॥੧॥ (67-10, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
> gurbaanee is jag meh chaanan karam vasai man aa-ay. ||1||
> 
> ਮਨ ਰੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਹੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
> ...


 


> ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ ॥ (982-10, nt, mÚ 4)
> banee guroo guroo hai banee vich banee amrit saaray.
> 
> ਗੁਰੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਕਹੈ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਜਨੁ ਮਾਨੈ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਿਸਤਾਰੇ ॥੫॥ (982-11, nt, mÚ 4)
> ...


 


> ਜੁਗਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਬਦਿ ਪਛਾਣੀ ਨਾਉ ਮੀਠਾ ਮਨਹਿ ਪਿਆਰਾ ॥੨॥ (602-12, soriT, mÚ 3)
> jug jug banee sabad pachhaanee naa-o meethaa maneh pi-aaraa. ||2||
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Throughout the ages, through the Word of His Bani, His Shabad is realized, and the Name becomes so sweet and beloved to the mind. ||2||


 


> ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਤੇ ਕਰਣੀ ਸਾਰ ॥ (1066-3, mwrU, mÚ 3)
> gur sayvaa tay karnee saar.
> 
> ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰ ॥ (1066-4, mwrU, mÚ 3)
> ...


 


> ਨਉ ਸਰ ਸੁਭਰ ਦਸਵੈ ਪੂਰੇ ॥ (943-19, rwmklI, mÚ 1)
> na-o sar subhar dasvai pooray.
> 
> ਤਹ ਅਨਹਤ ਸੁੰਨ ਵਜਾਵਹਿ ਤੂਰੇ ॥ (943-19, rwmklI, mÚ 1)
> ...


 



> ਸਭਨਾ ਸਿਰਿ ਤੂ ਏਕੋ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਬਦੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹਾ ਹੇ ॥੧੩॥ (1056-6, mwrU, mÚ 3)
> sabhnaa sir too ayko saahib sabday naam salaahaa hay. ||13||
> 
> ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਤੁਧੁਨੋ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ॥
> ...


 
bhul chuk maaf karni ~ 
Please sangat ji feel free to point out errors and correct mistakes and help this morakh. Thank you.


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 2, 2007)

Gurufateh

 GURUBANI doesnt says this defination of sikh..

WHERE IT IS WRITTEN THAT WE SHOULD FOLLOW ONLY SGGS AS GURU..

GURUBANI IS HERE FOR ENLIGHTEN US. TO LEAD US TO TRUE GURU /LIVING GURU,

U R ACTUALLY DISTORTED,

I THINK CURIOUS SINGH HAS WRITTEN VERY WELL ABOUT  this, bhai prahalad singh,
that is answer for u, where it is written to follow SGGS as living guru. no where written to follow SGGS as guru,
not by any of the 10 gurus..



Tell me,
GuruFateh


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## simpy (Apr 2, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 said:


> Gurufateh
> 
> GURUBANI doesnt says this defination of sikh..
> 
> ...


 
*Sahil Ji YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF-*

*GURBANI IS HERE TO ENLIGHTEN US. YES YES YES.*

*ok answer me-*

*QUESTIONS FOR ALL THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN TRYING TO CONVINCE THE SIKHS TO BELIEVE THAT THEIR BELIEF IN 'DHAN “DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI” BEING THEIR LIVING GURU' IS SUBJECT TO BE CORRECTED.*

*A True Guru is a Guru because His Soul is Merged with The Higher Self. *
*For us(SIKHS) ALL OUR GURUS ARE TRUE GURUS.  *
*For us(SIKHS) All our Eleven Gurus are LIVING.  *
*For us(SIKHS) TRUTH never dies. It is not bound to time and space. ALL GURU SAHIBAAN AND ETERNAL LIVING JOTE IN THE FORM OF DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI*
*are everywhere, all the time, Adole, Apaar…… *
*Baani Prabh Ki Sabh ko Bolay, Aap Adole Na Kabhu Doley………*

*IF ME NEECH IS WRONG PLEASE CORRECT ME.:roll: *


*Now we all know this Truth that human body is limited to time and space so has to expire one day. So is Guru Ji’s. There is no Guru living in a physical body forever. CAN YOUR GURU'S PHYSICAL BODY LIVE FOREVER??????*

*And I hope we all agree on this point that Atma never dies. DO WE??????*

*So for us(SIKHS), all our Gurus are here; now; have not gone anywhere. ARE THEY GONE ANYWHERE????*

*For all those who have been beating the drum Living Guru, Living Guru; In a Human Body, In a Human Body; The Only Way, The Only Way-*
*Will your Guru be of NO USE TO YOU AFTER HE/SHE LEAVES HIS/HER HUMAN ABODE??????*

*Are his/her words(truth) those are coming out of his/her mouth now, will be useless after he/she leaves the physical body???????*


*forgive me please*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 2, 2007)

Gurufateh

being honest i will not miss even a single point written by u in red(as u r missing so many points from my side)..
but i will answer all of them..

wait..
Forgive me please god if m wrong

Gurufateh


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## simpy (Apr 2, 2007)

*why wait- you told us your tenth gate is open- should not take that long to answer these questions*

*forgive me please*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 2, 2007)

m working thats why i put u on wait

it needs a big explanation

In hurry i will not write anything wrong
if u r in hurry then just come online with me on
gursikh1983@yahoo.com at messenger


gurufateh


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## simpy (Apr 2, 2007)

*Respected Sahil Ji,*

*endless thanks to you.*

*no need to hurry, and i have already told you- i am not intereseted in your Guru.*
* My GURU IS PURAN GURU, IF MY GURU NEEDS ME TO KNOW ANYTHING-  TELLS ME IN NO TIME. WHEN I NEED ANY HELP MY GURU PROVIDES ME IN NO TIME.*

*You have already thrown a lot of Kalakh on your socalled guru's name, you can do more- as much as you want. *

*And please once again-DO NOT DISRESPECT GURBANI ANYMORE.*
*I AM REQUESTING YOU ONCE AGAIN WITH FOLDED HANDS.*

*by the way- another Question-*

*WHERE IT IS WRITTEN THAT ONE SHOULD FOLLOW SAHIL MAKKAR??????*
*WHERE IT IS WRITTEN ONE SHOULD FOLLOW SAHIL MAKKAR'S SOCALLED GURU?????*

*forgive me please*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 2, 2007)

To meine kab kaha ki mere guru ko follow karo,
mein to aap ko yehi kya, ki SGGS pado, o dase ga ki keda guru follow karo.

par aap baaton ko ghumane ki bajaye ye dhundho ki ye kha likha
ki Shri guru gobind singh ke aage koi guru nahi hoga..
ye dhund lena..

n pray to Guru Nanak to show u way

GuruFateh



Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Respected Sahil Ji,*
> 
> *endless thanks to you.*
> 
> ...


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## simpy (Apr 2, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 said:


> To meine kab kaha ki mere guru ko follow karo,
> mein to aap ko yehi kya, ki SGGS pado, o dase ga ki keda guru follow karo.
> 
> par aap baaton ko ghumane ki bajaye ye dhundho ki ye kha likha
> ...


 
*Oh yes Sahil Ji *

*YOU ARE PROMOTING SOMETHING THAT YOU YOUSELF HAVE PROVED MANY TIMES OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT ACTUALLY SAYS.*

*keep going- YOU ARE MAKING IT CRYSTAL CLEAR THAT *

*either*

*SOMEBODY IS MAKING FOOL OF YOU/MISGUIDING YOU/BRAINWASHED YOU.*

*OR*

*you think-YOU CAN EXPLOIT EXISTING LANGUAGES AND MISGUIDE OTHERS.*

*forgive me please*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 4, 2007)

Gurfateh,

Dear sister, I am waiting for ur responses again and again.. ya I did mistake at 1 or 2 places.. and I accepted that.. but Please.. with folded hands m asking u, tell me the meaning of otherlines too..
again and again.... m asking u.. If u dont want to answer that... Its OK.. after giving that reply(other topic) that I have promised to u.. I will leave this forum..()

Because If m true , then one more thing I know , that as I have seen GOD with in me, so I know the same GOD within u makes me ur brother.. So if anyhow m hurting u(though intention is only to discuss what GURUBANI says.. and what GYAN our 10 guru gave to their devotees).. then it wud be better to leave..
because GURUNANAK dev always keep telling me.. WHATEVER ur intention are never break any heart..


Gurufateh



Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Oh yes Sahil Ji *
> 
> *YOU ARE PROMOTING SOMETHING THAT YOU YOUSELF HAVE PROVED MANY TIMES OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT ACTUALLY SAYS.*
> 
> ...


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## kds1980 (Apr 4, 2007)

> par aap baaton ko ghumane ki bajaye ye dhundho ki ye kha likha
> ki Shri guru gobind singh ke aage koi guru nahi hoga..
> ye dhund lena..



sahil apart from guru granth sahib we also have sikh history and according to that history guru gobind singh ji ended human guruship.if guru gobind singh ji did not ended human guruship then please tell all of us to whom he gave gurgaddi? not giving gurgaddi to any person is clear proof that there is no need of living guru.


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 4, 2007)

Bhayiya jee,

Ya he didnt give guru gaddi to anyone, but he never mentioned that , NEXT GURU will never come..
and guru gobind singh jee never mentioned that THIS IS END OF GURUSHIP.. is it written somewhere.
but if u read SHRI DASAM GRANTH then u will come know.. that Guru Gobind Singh jee has encouraged us to GO for a living GURU.. if not DASAM GRANTH then go through any SIKH-literature(written by any of our gurus).. AND just put some lines that prove ur point.

Gurufateh


kds1980 said:


> sahil apart from guru granth sahib we also have sikh history and according to that history guru gobind singh ji ended human guruship.if guru gobind singh ji did not ended human guruship then please tell all of us to whom he gave gurgaddi? not giving gurgaddi to any person is clear proof that there is no need of living guru.


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 4, 2007)

> Ya he didnt give guru gaddi to anyone, but he never mentioned that , NEXT GURU will never come..
> and guru gobind singh jee never mentioned that THIS IS END OF GURUSHIP.. is it written somewhere.
> but if u read SHRI DASAM GRANTH then u will come know.. that Guru Gobind Singh jee has encouraged us to GO for a living GURU.. if not DASAM GRANTH then go through any SIKH-literature(written by any of our gurus).. AND just put some lines that prove ur point.


 
And I was waiting for the big explanation from a brahmgiani.

Explain please this inconsistency: 
1. Ya he didn't give guru gaddi to anyone...
2. But he never mentioned that, NEXT GURU will never come...

Why would Guru Gobind Singh Ji encourage us to GO for a living Guru, when he Himself is Guru Ji? The Living Jyote of all 10 Masters was one and the same, and Guru Gobind Singh Ji ended the Human lineage by placing His living Jyote into the 11th, the Siri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaaj. Now I ask you. Why would Guruji just leave the Panth hanging...until along came any person who claimed Gurgaddi for himself who would change all the accepted traditions and claim to be satguru? Don't you realize the great wisdom and blessing of Guru Sahib Ji to end the lineage and protect the Panth in this era of Kaliyug from imposters and pretenders and corruptions of Gursikhi?

Now, because you cannot accept the Panthic answers which come not only from Gurbani of Shabad Guru Sahib Ji, but from the vaars of Bhai Gurdas Ji, from the actions of Baba Deep Singh Ji, from the entire history and tradition of Sikh Panth, you are just arguing but cannot disprove. The entire Sikh Panth is not wrong, you are. Now if I am making mistakes, I submit myself to the sadhsangat for correction and kindly accept. Because it isn't about my own opinion.



> but if u read SHRI DASAM GRANTH then u will come know.. that Guru Gobind Singh jee has encouraged us to GO for a living GURU.. if not DASAM GRANTH then go through any SIKH-literature(written by any of our gurus).. AND just put some lines that prove ur point.


Well, you are entitled to your opinon which no one can change. Anything written by our Guru Sahibs was GURBANI, not Sikh literature or just some lines. As for Dasam Granth, Akal Takht has banned discussion of it. So please stop now all these arguments. If you deny the Gurgaddi of Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, you are not a Sikh by any accepted Panthic definition. Therefore, as not a Sikh, please refrain from fighting with Sikhs about Sikh religion. Thank you.


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 13, 2007)

GuruFateh bhen ji

Dekho behan tusi bus SGGS changi tarah pad lo, na jo mein dasya onu apne dimaag vich rakho,
or hi jo tvannu pehle pata he onu,

bilkul unbiased ho ke pado, Saari uljhana aape hi mit jaan gi ha,

Bilkul sahi Guru apne bachya nu kadi vi latka ke nahi jaanda, par oh bacheya nu hal de ke jaanda he,
Shri Guru Gobind Singh jee de jaan to baad vi kadi mahapursha da aana rukya nahi..

Aande rahe.... Chaho te mein sareya de naam das sakda ha
Or Shri Guru Gobind Singh jee ne jo vi kya such he, koi do raye hi nahi,
par behan jee, ona ne kithe vi eh nahi kya ki GURU MANYO GRANTH,
eh gal kissi duje forum te discuss ho chuki he
ki eh Gal bhai prehalad singh ne likhi he..
SGGS saadi guidance layi he.. sache guru nu talash karan layi..

Bakki Dasam granth.. da vi saanu hale tak pata hi nahi.. ki ede piche ki raaj he, ki Guru jee ne likhya ki kissi hor ne... 
Sanu te adhiya gala hi pata he.. jo kissi ne keh ti man li....
par Dasam granth sade guru da hi he.. or sanu sareya nu garv hona chahi da he..
par asi te aaj political issue bana ta he dharam nu..

Chalo thoda free ho ke hor likha ga

GuruFateh


Harjas Kaur Khalsa said:


> And I was waiting for the big explanation from a brahmgiani.
> 
> Explain please this inconsistency:
> 1. Ya he didn't give guru gaddi to anyone...
> ...


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## simpy (Apr 13, 2007)

*Sahil Ji maaf karna-*

*you just said*-"that as I have seen GOD with in me" *(written in your post dated-4/4/07 post # 16)*

*now you say-* "Bakki Dasam granth.. da vi saanu hale tak pata hi nahi.. ki ede piche ki raaj he, ki Guru jee ne likhya ki kissi hor ne... 
Sanu te adhiya gala hi pata he.. jo kissi ne keh ti man li*...."(written in your post dated-4/13/07 post # 20)*

*and then you say*-"par Dasam granth sade guru da hi he.. or sanu sareya nu garv hona chahi da he..
par asi te aaj political issue bana ta he dharam nu*.."(written in your post dated-4/13/07 post # 20)*

*very intersting*

*by the way more is coming what you been asking for. i was also busy in a big project, JARA HOSLA RAKHO VEER JI- what about your statement about seeing God within- it doesn't happen until a person is reached the state of COMPLETE SANTOKH..or does it????*



*and on one side you are asking-*



			
				Sahil Makkar said:
			
		

> Gurfateh,
> 
> Dear sister, I am waiting for ur responses again and again.. ya I did mistake at 1 or 2 places.. and I accepted that.. but Please.. with folded hands m asking u, tell me the meaning of otherlines too..
> again and again.... m asking u.. If u dont want to answer that... Its OK.. after giving that reply(other topic) that I have promised to u.. I will leave this forum..()
> ...



*FYI you cannot break my heart as it not mine anymore- it is laying in Guru Ji's Charan Kanwal- Guru Ji Knows what to to do with it.*

*This is your problem if you think you can break somebody's heart.... Kare Karaeai appey aap...*

*and on the other side you also say-*



			
				Sahil Makkar said:
			
		

> GuruFateh,
> 
> Though m really busy in office, but just to check what's going on, I came here,
> Thanks Rosethorne paaji, tusi bada hi vadiya analysis kita he,
> ...


 
*are you sure you are busy *



*my veer you are being very unfair to the SPN Sangat - you are asking me neech to give explanations, to give answers and all that. You Yourself have not answered even a single question me neech asked you- *

*so as a reminder *

*can you please:*

*QUESTIONS FOR ALL THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN TRYING TO CONVINCE THE SIKHS TO BELIEVE THAT THEIR BELIEF IN 'DHAN “DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI” BEING THEIR LIVING GURU' IS SUBJECT TO BE CORRECTED.*

*A True Guru is a Guru because His Soul is Merged with The Higher Self. *
*For us(SIKHS) ALL OUR GURUS ARE TRUE GURUS.  *
*For us(SIKHS) All our Eleven Gurus are LIVING.  *
*For us(SIKHS) TRUTH never dies. It is not bound to time and space. ALL GURU SAHIBAAN AND ETERNAL LIVING JOTE IN THE FORM OF DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI*
*are everywhere, all the time, Adole, Apaar…… *
*Baani Prabh Ki Sabh ko Bolay, Aap Adole Na Kabhu Doley………*

*IF ME NEECH IS WRONG PLEASE CORRECT ME.:roll: *


*Now we all know this Truth that human body is limited to time and space so has to expire one day. So is Guru Ji’s. There is no Guru living in a physical body forever. CAN YOUR GURU'S PHYSICAL BODY LIVE FOREVER??????*

*And I hope we all agree on this point that Atma never dies. DO WE??????*

*So for us(SIKHS), all our Gurus are here; now; have not gone anywhere. ARE THEY GONE ANYWHERE????*

*For all those who have been beating the drum Living Guru, Living Guru; In a Human Body, In a Human Body; The Only Way, The Only Way-*
*Will your Guru be of NO USE TO YOU AFTER HE/SHE LEAVES HIS/HER HUMAN ABODE??????*

*Are his/her words(truth) those are coming out of his/her mouth now, will be useless after he/she leaves the physical body???????*
*bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ]*
*guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry ]5]*

*bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ]*
*baanee guroo guroo hai baanee vich baanee anmrith saarae*
*The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained.*

*guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry ]5]*
*g**u**r b**aa**n**ee** keh**ai** s**ae**vuk jun m**aa**n**ai** puruthakh g**u**r**oo** n**i**suth**aa**r**ae*
*If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him. ||5||*

*Dhan Guru Raam Das Paatshah says- Bani Guru Hai, Guru Bani Hai and whosoever humbly believes Bani, Bani(GURU) saves that person.*
*There is no difference in Guru or Guru's Bani. Guru is unlimited. Guru is already mearged with SuperSelf- that's why his words contain AMBROSIAL NECTAAR-AMRIT. AND AMRIT KADI BEHA NAHI HUNDAA....*

*Gurbani tells us the importance of Guru and it proves the POINT that GURBANI IS GURU.*

*what else do we need to know from you?????*

*ALSO TELL ME WHERE IT IS WRITTEN THAT YOU CANNOT HAVE GURBANI AS YOUR GURU- *


*GURU SAHIB NE TA BANI NU 'NIRANKAAR' KEHA HAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:roll: *

*ki tuhada guru Nirankaar to vi uppar hai  *

*my Dear Veer another one-*

*you say you have seen God within you- you must know where it is written- Gobindey Mukandey Udaarey Apaarey Harrean Karrean Nirnaamey Akaamey(as you claim the full knowledge of all the Granths)*
*TELL ME IN ALL THAT WAS SHOWN TO YOU- HOW YOU SAW ALL THE ABOVE- ALL THE SANGAT WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, I BELIEVE. VERY VERY IMPORTANT THING- PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS  .*

*And one another one- *

*Gurbani says *

so syvku prmysur kI giq jwnY ]
so siqguru ijsu irdY hir nwau ]
Aink bwr gur kau bil jwau ]
srb inDwn jIA kw dwqw ]
AwT phr pwrbRhm rMig rwqw ]
_*bRhm mih jnu jn mih pwrbRhmu ]*_
eykih Awip nhI kCu Brmu ]
shs isAwnp lieAw n jweIAY ]
nwnk AYsw guru bfBwgI pweIAY ]

*Guru Sahibaan have mentioned this fact over and over again- oh yes you need to know this in English-*

*bRhm mih jnu jn mih pwrbRhmu ]*
*brehum mehi jun jun mehi paarubrehum *
*The servant is in God, and God is in the servant.*

*you only talk about one part of this- your words-"i have seen God within me"*

*what about the first part- YOU NEVER MENTIONED THAT PART EVER.*

*i would like to know what your Guru tells you about that- WITHOUT THE FIRST PART, MERE VEER SECOND PART CANNOT BE REVEALED.*

*Have your Guru shown you that- that is within you is also without-SARAV VEYAAPI, still SADAA ALEAIPAA....*

*ALL THE REAL AND TRUE SAINTS AND BRAHMGYAANIS I HAVE MET IN ALL FORMS-ALL AGREE ON THIS.*

*It will be very IMPORTANT to know about this from your Guru's prospective, as YOU WANT TO CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION.*




*my dear veer also read*- http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-...g-misinterpreted-by-sahil-ji-3.html#post53249



*forgive me please*


----------



## kds1980 (Apr 13, 2007)

sahil there were many sikh scholars like professor sahib singh who had spent their entire life in studying and interpretting guru granth sahib.they never said that sikhs need a living a guru and guru granth sahib is for searching a living guru and you a are saying that we sikhs should go to living guru just beacause you read some quotes from guru granth sahib.do you think you are a great scholars of gurbani than those people?

as i earlier told you apart from guru granth sahib we also have sikh history.first read it
and then debate with us that whether we need a living guru or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sikh Gurus
According to Guru Gobind Singh's poet Sainapat, Bhai Nand Lal and Dhadi Nath Mal, all of who were present at Nander, a day before the Guru's demise, the sikhs enquired as to whom he was entrusting his Khalsa. Bhai Nand Lal in Rahitnama says the Guru replied he has three forms. The first was nirgun or invisible, the second was his word and the third was sagun or the visible. After his physical death his soul would be invisible. His second form would be Adi Granth (not Dasam Granth), "Dusar Rup Granthji jan, Mera rup Granthji jan. Is men bhed nahin kuchh man." The third sagun, or visible rup was the Khalsa. He added that he had bestowed his physical form upon his khalsa. The Guru accompanied by Khalsa went to the place where Adi Granth had been installed. He opened the holy book, placed five paise and a coconut before it, bowed before it, then went round the sacred scripture five times, bowed every time, and declared it as the Guru for all times to come. Upto this time the holy book was called Pothi Sahib. Gobind Singh named it Granth consisting of two words, Gur and Ant meaning eternal Guru. He asserted: " In future whoever wishes to seek englightenment, guidance and solace, let him read the holy granth. This is your Guru for ever and ever till eternity. " The Guru said that he was entrusting the Khalsa to the care of AkalPurukh (God). He affirmed 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
now tell us were these people told lie that guru gobind singh ji gave guruship to guru granth sahib.if yes why would they did so what would they their motive.?


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 13, 2007)

Jhuth bola te aag lage,

mein sachi vich busy ha..
tai thoda thoda likh raya va..
answering these questions does nt take time, but yes writing it takes certain time.

Dekho behanji,
eh mera promise he ki mein tvannu within 10-15 days (ta tak mein bahut hi jyada busy ha)
answer karaga.. though i know u r not waiting for my answers.. but as i said I will answer...

Bakki aaj vaali gal answer kar jaana..

Dekho behan, tusi Santokh vaali gal kahi...
tvaddi gal sahi he, ki santokh hona jarrori he,
par maaf karna, twadi age as ur profile vich 41 likhi he,
tvade vich te menu kaafi santokh dikhda he, tusi har gal vich apne aap nu neech kehnde ho,
kinne change bhav he twade, tvannu vikhya ki..

behan dekho mein kehna eh chahna ki eh gala kehan naal nahi aandiya kissi de
baaki a quote that m putting that wil tell how SANTOKH COMES

*ਘਰ  ਮਹਿ  ਘਰੁ  ਦੇਖਾਇ  ਦੇਇ  ਸੋ  ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ  ਪੁਰਖੁ  ਸੁਜਾਣੁ  ॥ 
घर महि घरु देखाइ देइ सो सतिगुरु पुरखु सुजाणु ॥ 
ghar meh ghar daykhaa-ay day-ay so satgur purakh sujaan. 
The True Guru is the All-knowing Primal Being; He shows us our true home
within the home of the self. 

 ਪੰਚ  ਸਬਦ  ਧੁਨਿਕਾਰ  ਧੁਨਿ  ਤਹ  ਬਾਜੈ  ਸਬਦੁ  ਨੀਸਾਣੁ  ॥ 
पंच सबद धुनिकार धुनि तह बाजै सबदु नीसाणु ॥ 
panch sabad Dhunikaar Dhun tah baajai sabad neesaan. 
The Panch Shabad, the Five Primal Sounds, resonate and resound within;
the insignia of the Shabad is revealed there, vibrating gloriously. 

 ਦੀਪ  ਲੋਅ  ਪਾਤਾਲ  ਤਹ  ਖੰਡ  ਮੰਡਲ  ਹੈਰਾਨੁ  ॥ 
दीप लोअ पाताल तह खंड मंडल हैरानु ॥ 
deep lo-a paataal tah khand mandal hairaan. 
Worlds and realms, nether regions, solar systems and galaxies are
wondrously revealed. 

 ਤਾਰ  ਘੋਰ  ਬਾਜਿੰਤ੍ਰ  ਤਹ  ਸਾਚਿ  ਤਖਤਿ  ਸੁਲਤਾਨੁ  ॥ 
तार घोर बाजिंत्र तह साचि तखति सुलतानु ॥ 
taar ghor baajintar tah saach takhat sultaan. 
The strings and the harps vibrate and resound; the true throne of the
Lord is there. 

 ਸੁਖਮਨ  ਕੈ  ਘਰਿ  ਰਾਗੁ  ਸੁਨਿ  ਸੁੰਨਿ  ਮੰਡਲਿ  ਲਿਵ  ਲਾਇ  ॥ 
सुखमन कै घरि रागु सुनि सुंनि मंडलि लिव लाइ ॥ 
sukhman kai ghar raag sun sunn mandal liv laa-ay. 
Listen to the music of the home of the heart - Sukhmani, peace of mind.
Lovingly tune in to His state of celestial ecstasy. 

 ਅਕਥ  ਕਥਾ  ਬੀਚਾਰੀਐ  ਮਨਸਾ  ਮਨਹਿ  ਸਮਾਇ  ॥ 
अकथ कथा बीचारीऐ मनसा मनहि समाइ ॥ 
akath kathaa beechaaree-ai mansaa maneh samaa-ay. 
Contemplate the Unspoken Speech, and the desires of the mind are
dissolved. 

 ਉਲਟਿ  ਕਮਲੁ  ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ  ਭਰਿਆ  ਇਹੁ  ਮਨੁ  ਕਤਹੁ  ਨ  ਜਾਇ  ॥ 
उलटि कमलु अम्रिति भरिआ इहु मनु कतहु न जाइ ॥ 
ulat kamal amrit bhari-aa ih man katahu na jaa-ay. 
The heart-lotus is turned upside-down, and is filled with Ambrosial
Nectar. This mind does not go out; it does not get distracted. 

 ਅਜਪਾ  ਜਾਪੁ  ਨ  ਵੀਸਰੈ  ਆਦਿ  ਜੁਗਾਦਿ  ਸਮਾਇ  ॥ 
अजपा जापु न वीसरै आदि जुगादि समाइ ॥ 
ajpaa jaap na veesrai aad jugaad samaa-ay. 
It does not forget the Chant which is chanted without chanting; it is
immersed in the Primal Lord God of the ages. 

 ਸਭਿ  ਸਖੀਆ  ਪੰਚੇ  ਮਿਲੇ  ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਨਿਜ  ਘਰਿ  ਵਾਸੁ  ॥ 
सभि सखीआ पंचे मिले गुरमुखि निज घरि वासु ॥ 
sabh sakhee-aa panchay milay gurmukh nij ghar vaas. 
All the sister-companions are blessed with the five virtues. The
Gurmukhs dwell in the home of the self deep within. 

 ਸਬਦੁ  ਖੋਜਿ  ਇਹੁ  ਘਰੁ  ਲਹੈ  ਨਾਨਕੁ  ਤਾ  ਕਾ  ਦਾਸੁ  ॥੧॥ 
सबदु खोजि इहु घरु लहै नानकु ता का दासु ॥१॥ 
sabad khoj ih ghar lahai naanak taa kaa daas. ||1|| 
Nanak is the slave of that one who seeks the Shabad and finds this home
within. ||1||* 



EH puri kahani he MARG di panth di jide naal, marg chalda he
or shishya kive SANTOKH nu prapat karda he

jo PANCH sakhiya di gal ethe likhi he oh he
SAT, SANTOKH, DAYA, DHERYA, SHEEL

PAD LO

GURUFATEH



Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Sahil Ji maaf karna-*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 13, 2007)

har gal upar jedi quote vich likhi 

deep meaning he

pura marg he
likhya he ki guru dikhanda he(1st line)
aage ki ki anubhav honde he shishya nu(o vi likha he)
aage shishya nu ki karna chahi da (o vi likhya he)
aage likhe he ki PANCH SAKHIYA..... jo ki ute likhya... (o mil jaandi he, hukam te chalo ta)

or aage Guru nanak sahab ne te aapne aap nu nimaana bana ke ena tak keh ta, ki mein vi oda daas va, jinne eh shabad di khoj kar layi, (changi tarah edi practice kar layi gyan di::: eh sahi he)

GurFateh

GURUFATEH


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## simpy (Apr 13, 2007)

*Respected Veer Ji*

*jad bani Guru Hai*

*Sabh kuch das rahi hai*

*Oh Bani hi hirday ch vass ke Sabh kuch kar karaa Rahee hai*

*phir tusi guru da manukhi deh vich hona jaruri da ki rola pa rahe ho??????*

*chalaakeean naal nahee, sidhi padharee gal karo*

*ajay teek tusi spasht tor te kise vi svaal da javaab nahi ditta*

*by the way kehni te karni dono insaan da sahi roop das dindey han- behroopeeyai karde kuch ne kahndey kuch ne.*
*te gursikh di kehni te karni ik honi chahidi hai*

*lukeaa kuch nahee rehndaa, saare pol khul jande ne.*
*Gurbani de taakat apaar hai mere veer. *
*Eh dhur ki bani hai- Saglee chint mitaun vaali- is da mazaak na banaaoo.*
*translations naal nahi sikhi te sikhaaee jaandi*
*Is nu jeeoona painda hai, phir sikhaee sakde o kise hor nu*
*santokh mammooli gajar mooli nahi jo kise ne tuhaanu de daini hai*
*pehlaan andaron bethi besabri naal jhooj jhooj ke us nu baahar kadnaa paindaa hai*
*santokh karna te phir kari rakhnaa is not something simple*

*forgive me please*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 20, 2007)

Gurufateh

again for short time
but as i promised i will answer u.. so wait..
really busy??

kher chalo tusi te eh mann gaye ki, twade layi santokh kaafi okha he,
ha bina guru de okha hi he santokh,

vaise jaide answer mein upar ditte ne,
ona nu kuch explain karo apne khas andaz ich
ki o misinterprated ne,(agar ha, te tusi explain karo..)... agar sahi ne o explain ke karde ne..

kithe mein 5 sakhiya vaali gal galt te nahi kahi..
all I leave on u..
Please explain it...

U r only trying to find .. the wrong things.. n just arguments...( As i already told that after answering ur that questions I will leave this forum.. )
for example the line I wrongly wrote wrong... u kept on extending that..
I gave u example of DAWAI then u answered with POISON.. but never thought ki
gurubani kehndi ki he.. 
mein eh kaya ki "TELL ME WHERE ITS WRITTEN IN GURUBANI THAT WE SHOULD NOT GO FOR LIVING GURU.... GURUBANI VICH TA SANTA DI ENI MAHIMA HE"
par tusi bajaye ki gurubani vich pad ke vichaar karan de ulta argument dita ki
"WHERE ITS WRITTEN THAT WE SHOULD GO FOR SAHIL MAKKAR's GURU"
behan mein vi kadi nahi kaya ki ... sirf mera guru puran he... puran guru ohi he.. jo kahe o kare, kathani aan milaye.. jida gurubani kehndi he..
U r not serious... just read gurubani...just read.. with unbiased mind..
it will definately help u.

twade har question da jawaab dawage..

tusi chahe sahi cheeja de sahi tarike naal jawab do na do..
or asi answer karan to baad forum chad da ge
fer vi twadi agaya hoi te fer vi jawaab dende rava ge

Gurufateh


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## simpy (Apr 20, 2007)

*Respected Sahil Veer, *

*after all this, --only one slaah from my side*
*and this is the last one ever. you will not hear from me ever again.*

*Don't waste your time, Jeevan da koi bharosa nahi, *
*NAAM AMRIT PEEN DI KOSHISH KARO, BANI JEEVO, BANI DA MAKHOL NA BANAAOOOOOOOO, te ardaas hai waheguru Ji kol- tuhanu sumat bakhshan*



*forgive me please*


----------



## spnadmin (Apr 20, 2007)

Sangaat all, and Mr. Sahilmakkar,

Sahil ji, is more than one person writing the messages that you are posting? I read everything that you have written, and the style of your writing has changed in very noticeable ways.

Sometimes, your messages use the text-english that younger people use when they send text messages by phone-- ur not your; r not are; n not and; u not you; and other examples throughout. When you first started to post you mixed your personal comments in a more normal style of writing with lines from Bani here and there, and verses from Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib ji here and there. Sometimes your messages have been very brief using standard English sentences before and after verses in Punjabi, with almost no sign of a foreign language speaker. There are at least 3 different styles.

Not that there is anything wrong with this. I am just wondering because of concerns of some that you may be sending a missionary message.

With deepest respect to the sangaat!


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## spnadmin (Apr 20, 2007)

Respected kds1980,

Thank you for the paragraphs you posted above. You must be very learned. I would like to read more historical information because this kind of material is not easy to find in English.

And thank you for using the term AkalPurukh (God) because when posting I need a better name that is less general than God.

This is great!


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## kds1980 (Apr 24, 2007)

aad0002 said:


> Respected kds1980,
> 
> Thank you for the paragraphs you posted above. You must be very learned. I would like to read more historical information because this kind of material is not easy to find in English.
> 
> ...



dear aad2

thanks for appreciating me.i am not as much learned as you are thinking.i only know address of some which provide good information on sikhism in english

Btw the devotion you have for sikhism is really amazing.


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## japjisahib04 (Apr 24, 2007)

kds1980 said:


> sahil apart from guru granth sahib we also have sikh history and according to that history guru gobind singh ji ended human guruship.if guru gobind singh ji did not ended human guruship then please tell all of us to whom he gave gurgaddi? not giving gurgaddi to any person is clear proof that there is no need of living guru.


Are we worshipper of sabd guru who is all over or deh dhari guru who cannot be all over. Since we have our Sabd Guru in the form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, only ignorant manmukh look for deh dhari guru. You name any deh dhari guru escorting body guard, is no more than a pakhandhi.
Sahni Mohinder


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## spnadmin (Apr 24, 2007)

Kids1980ji 

Thank you. It is true that the existence of God is difficult to prove logically. We can only know God by events that occur that speak to God's existence, that carry us through difficultties suddently and without warning, without having to ask. Satgur and his hukam have protected me more times in the last two years than I can count, even today. That's all. I hope the devotion is contagious. 

Peace and love


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## simpy (Apr 24, 2007)

aad0002 said:


> It is true that the existence of God is difficult to prove logically. We can only know God by events that occur that speak to God's existence, that carry us through difficultties suddently and without warning, without having to ask. Satgur and his hukam have protected me more times in the last two years than I can count, even today. That's all. I hope the devotion is contagious.
> 
> Peace and love


 
* Respected Saadh Sangat Ji  , *
*isn't it amazing- a little faith, then more, then more, and it just keeps on increasing, everything it touches it converts it into more pure and pious than before. Waheguru's Game of Unconditional Love- Amazes me all the time, every moment.*

*Even what we think it is a mistake- usually ends up teaching us something great.*

*Respected aad0002 Ji your post above reminded me of these lines-*

hir hir sMq imlhu myry BweI hir nwmu idRVwvhu iek iknkw ]
hir hir sIgwru bnwvhu hir jn hir kwpVu pihrhu iKm kw ]
AYsw sIgwru myry pRB BwvY hir lwgY ipAwrw ipRm kw ]
hir hir nwmu bolhu idnu rwqI siB iklibK kwtY iek plkw ]
hir hir dieAwlu hovY ijsu aupir so gurmuiK hir jip ijxkw ]


*forgive me please*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (May 16, 2007)

hanji behan ji ...
naam vi lende ha te
amrit vi vaheguru jee di kirpa naal ... sanu andar hi milda he..

gurubani vich kaya te he

SACHA AMRITSAR KAYA MAAHI, ....

UPAR JEDI LINA LIKHIYA HE NA
ULT KAMAL AMRIT BHARAYA.. EH MAN KITHE NA JAYI...

OH ANDAR DA AMRIT HE.. HOR aunda HE SIMRAN SADHNA NAAL

OHI PEENE HA ...VAHEGURU DI KIRPA NAAL

GURUFATEH


Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Respected Sahil Veer, *
> 
> *after all this, --only one slaah from my side*
> *and this is the last one ever. you will not hear from me ever again.*
> ...


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## rosethorne (May 16, 2007)

Dear Gursikhs, It is sure that Sahilji is not a gursikh by any means, he can prove with his words but not with his deeds. He is having a shaken soul of himself that even God can't help him. Jad likhaya hai ke, EH MANN KITHE NAA JAAYI, Te Phir Bahar KI Labh Rahe ne Sahilji. That means Sahilji is a fool of his own kind. He is proving other body means KAYA is having SACH, But saying SACHA AMRITSAR KAYA MAAHI,... Oh meri KAYA vich vi hai te sab di KAYA vich hai. Its a universal truth. But its a universal truth also that, Aasi soonde nu te jaga sakde haan par Sahilji warge Jaagde nu nahi. Jinu baani te changi lagdi hove par Guru Granth, As GURU nahi. Te oh phir vichara hi kehaa jayega naa. Te aj Taun Baad KIndly Every Gursikh have a duty to put an adjective, VICHARA to Sahilji. Any person, Who is answering Sahilji must put VICHARA in front of his name. Taki Sahilji nu pata chal jaye apni sahi tasweer da.


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Sep 26, 2007)

Hanji ..
I was busy with some work..
I m not free even now..
but just got some time to see the post here.
Put vichaaraas in front of my name.. I will be happier.. make me remember.. that m vichaara..
but u also do vichaar.. ki gurubani kehndi ki he..
kithe vi nahi likhya.. to only worship the SGGS. but to obey the SGGS is the instruction to us.
U said
Jinu baani te changi lagdi hove par Guru Granth, As GURU nahi.

This thing can be asked to u also.. You, on instruction from elders has taken SGGS as guru.. but not even as followed a single instruction of our gurus.
What gurubani says..

Now people say, BANI GURU .. GURU HAI BANI..
yeah thats true,

But first understand what BANI is.. we never try to understand what is BANI.. though it is very difficult to mk people understand what is BANI..

but SGGS has all the answers::
BANI BIRLA VICHAAR SI.. JE KOI GURUMUKH HOE.
EH BANI MAHAPURAKH KI.. NIJ GHAR VAASA HOE.

Bani resides in our home(our body where God resides) and true-name is BANI..
nothing else..
(m not intrepreting it more.. because it can be a misintrepretation for you.. so its better .. If I just indicate the quotes from Gurubani here.. and you go and get it intrepreted it by anyone)

I came here.. when I searched for anand sahib online. I never came here to hurt anyone.
but when I saw people fighting over ridiculous issues. 
and really saying, all this issues are because of our ignorance..
the ignorance, that we hv for our great religion .
I love SGGS.. because it is great scripture.. and the things written in other scriptures(mostly in sanskrit) are little bit difficult to understand.. and gurubani makes it simple to undertand... but we people still dont understand. and one more worthy point to mention here.. I love all religion equally.. and same respect for other scriptures also.. I have read many scriptures and found no difference in anyone..
Every religion says the same thing..
1>. ONLY READING SCRIPTURES AND RECITING IT WILL NOT TAKE ANYWHERE. THOUGH SCRIPTURES ARE FOR OUR GUIDANCE.... AND WE SHOULD FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS WRITTEN IN THEM.
2>GOD IS ONE... and WE CAN KNOW GOD by GRACE OF PERFECT MASTER.
AND SO MANY THINGS that we can discuss(though I will not like arguing.. only put gurubani.. if u want any discussion..)
I cant be regular to discussions.. bcoz am overloaded with work..
And the thing that will favour our discussion :: it should be upliftment of all of us... rather than arguing without understanding gurubani

Thanks::
Sahil






rosethorne said:


> Dear Gursikhs, It is sure that Sahilji is not a gursikh by any means, he can prove with his words but not with his deeds. He is having a shaken soul of himself that even God can't help him. Jad likhaya hai ke, EH MANN KITHE NAA JAAYI, Te Phir Bahar KI Labh Rahe ne Sahilji. That means Sahilji is a fool of his own kind. He is proving other body means KAYA is having SACH, But saying SACHA AMRITSAR KAYA MAAHI,... Oh meri KAYA vich vi hai te sab di KAYA vich hai. Its a universal truth. But its a universal truth also that, Aasi soonde nu te jaga sakde haan par Sahilji warge Jaagde nu nahi. Jinu baani te changi lagdi hove par Guru Granth, As GURU nahi. Te oh phir vichara hi kehaa jayega naa. Te aj Taun Baad KIndly Every Gursikh have a duty to put an adjective, VICHARA to Sahilji. Any person, Who is answering Sahilji must put VICHARA in front of his name. Taki Sahilji nu pata chal jaye apni sahi tasweer da.


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 26, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 said:


> Hanji .. ONLY READING SCRIPTURES AND RECITING IT WILL NOT TAKE ANYWHERE. THOUGH SCRIPTURES ARE FOR OUR GUIDANCE.... AND WE SHOULD FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS WRITTEN IN THEM.
> 2>GOD IS ONE... and WE CAN KNOW GOD by GRACE OF PERFECT MASTER.
> AND SO MANY THINGS that we can discuss(though I will not like arguing.. only put gurubani.. if u want any discussion..)
> I cant be regular to discussions.. bcoz am overloaded with work..
> And the thing that will favour our discussion :: it should be upliftment of all of us... rather than arguing without understanding gurubani.




Welcome back Sahil Ji

You said we can know God by grace of perfect master. Can you kindly name this perfect master and whether this perfect master himself has known God.

Regards Sahni Mohinder


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## Astroboy (Sep 27, 2007)

BANI BIRLA VICHAAR SI.. JE KOI GURUMUKH HOE.
EH BANI MAHAPURAKH KI.. NIJ GHAR VAASA HOE.

Sahil Ji,

Can you kindly expand on this quote based on your own experiences. I believe you have spent alot of your precious time trying to educate the Sikh sangat in seeking the true home first. 

Without wasting time running round the bush, kindly direct us to your personal experiences. In SGGS, there are various references made about personal experiences as well. 

I understand you too like many others have borrowed texts from various authors to prove a point that we should experience first and vichar later.

Kindly enlighten us. While I understand your experience is unique to you only, there is something which will be grasped by me. My intention is to 'pellay bhann".

To be specific,
1.  How do you differentiate anhad shabad from other sounds.
2.  Panch Shabad - what are the steps of reaching all 5.
3.  What is thanda and how do you overcome it.
4.  In your personal experiences, your inner encounters, give a narration (attempt in words to give some hints) about your vision without adding masala to beautify your narration.
5.  Some say, they hear 2 sounds which are similar to each other, but not the same. Throw some light on this topic.
6.  Radiant form of the Guru, by your own experience. Don't borrow notes from other writers.

~ begum ~


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## TGill (Sep 27, 2007)

Agree with you begum ji... this is all ego playin here of Sahil ji and all of us. Please don't mind sahil ji but I think

jo jaane na bolde na kare tamasha jag
jina vekheya satguru us na trishna di ag
jo vi gurusikh dekhia bas rameya sabade dhur
jo rasna to bolde jaane kuch na gur


Regards


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## singh is king (Sep 28, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 said:


> Hanji ..
> I was busy with some work..
> hanji
> kafi maheene busy rahe tusi
> ...


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