# Leaving Sikhism



## Lionchild (Dec 8, 2005)

Yes i regret this very much...

Despite making big steps forward I come to realize that this path has not been created for me. This is for personal reasons; myself wish not to go into explanation about this now. As some of the reasons might offend some ppl on this board.

I wish all the new converts to sikhi a better chance at finding a clear path in sikhi and wish them good times at the same time.

I’m sorry for this sudden decision

Thanks for all you support.


-starrdarcy


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 8, 2005)

Gurfateh

Dear Darcy,

Best of luck for the future.

as per Anand Sahib(pleasure of lord) Going on this Path is sharper then sabre and smaller then hair.


If possible kindly tell the reasons(off leaving) which could offend some one one forum at least by personal message to Das(me).

Das only want to say that in your Canada there are many people who tend to clad themselves as great Sikh but are nothing more then one with pagan faiths of punjabi or Indian race.

often people tend to leave the faith due to such people who do not know Sikh path but preach others the wrong way.

In fact there are some who molest young childern but may tell others to follow strict code.


waiting for your reply

regard
vd Singh


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## drkhalsa (Dec 8, 2005)

Dear Khalsa_starr

Best of luck  your future and spirtual journey 

Your message is strange well as appear to me as you said you are leaving sikhism well I dont think it is a thing that you can leave or carry with you 
Anything good you might have learned while considering your self a sikh might help you in  your future journey .

Best of luck and if possible would like to know your reason for doing so



Jatinder Singh


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## kds1980 (Dec 8, 2005)

wjkk
wjkf

      please tell the reasons .we want to know that what is wrong in sikhism


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## thecoopes (Dec 13, 2005)

Khalsa_starr said:
			
		

> Yes i regret this very much...
> 
> Despite making big steps forward I come to realize that this path has not been created for me. This is for personal reasons; myself wish not to go into explanation about this now. As some of the reasons might offend some ppl on this board.
> 
> ...


 
*Dear Khalsa_starr, I am sorry to hear your leaving the Sikh religion. You may wonder why I would say that, as I am obviously not a Sikh?*

*Here is my reason, I like most people develop a desire to know the answers and grasp the great truths that mankind has sought after for millennia. *

*I had a semi religious upbringing that one could loosely describe as Christian, however as they say I had more questions than answers.*

*My life took a dramatic turn when I became involved with a fundamentalist Christian religion; it appeared that these people had the answers to all the questions I had. In truth it was just as all fundamentalism. The answers were just unyielding dogma and as in the story of the Kings new clothes, it was a blinding of the rational mind to clear thinking so that each individual believes that they have perfect vision, when actually we had become blind to truth and just steamed ahead like the Borg.*

*Just look at the great swathes of humanity that have let themselves be swept along with religious fervour, their minds are closed to reality and they have exchanged truth and clarity of thought for the comfort of mass mind control where another interprets Gods will for them.*

*In your search for God and answers to life you will have many disappointments as well as joys, in truth the more we think the more pain we feel. If you consider the great thinkers of the past and those of today each struggled with these fundamental questions and yet after thousands of years we are also trying to grasp the same elusive answers. *

*What you will find with the Sikh religion as is true with some others, is something I have come to treasure as one of the fundamental lessons of life. *

*They have respect for the other persons belief, with this as a starting point one can expand and grow rather than being enslaved by the narrow inward-looking religions that see only themselves as Gods chosen.*


*Good luck on your journey, be careful and on your guard for those that claim to know the way. Many have been lead astray and become bitter toward their fellow man. I have posted this several times and post it again as something that contains a wisdom, take what you want from it.*

*John*

DESIDERATA 1604​ 
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as it possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly, and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they to have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexatious to the spirit. If you compare yourself to others you may become vain and bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your career however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself, especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. 
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars: you have the right to be here. and whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be; and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.


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## devinesanative (Dec 13, 2005)

After going through various ups and downs and some bitter experiences , What I have observed and learnt that , the people who call themselves to be religious are nothing but religious addictives and fanatics.

They themselves live in the FAIRY TALE DREAMS , failing to understand the other person and failing to recognize the ground realities , they give a good deal of lecture without following themselves , and expect others to follow strict code .


Many people flaunt about their being religious , But when put to test they fail themselves.


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## Arvind (Dec 14, 2005)

Dear John,

As usual, you have done a great job of expressing your thoughts in an excellent way. 

Guru Sahib says in first pauri of Japji Sahib - 
Even if one thinks million times - He can not be captured in thoughts...
and similar analogies

Sincerely, Arvind.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 15, 2005)

Gurfateh

Das wuold like to say that in Sikhs also there are good number of boigots who makes us some what like todays deformed Islam.

but as per Gurbani all are hell bent to keep such people at bay.

In fact as neo convert often Das met with such people for whom gurmat or Sikhism is more a type of dogma.

Das also felt sad oft yet on this forum itslef as you see Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji ,Amarpal Singh aomg other guided das how to fight rituals.In real life das also got help of local Sangat in Delhi and others parts of the world.Baba Nidder Singh Ji Nihung and Bahi Bahadur Singh Ji Nirmalas etc also played there roles.

Das thought what Sikh faith is before conversion by reading Bani and explations both by Nirmalas and Sikh misssioanries laer on.And found that it is the same yet in between may non sense things das encountered which people helped das come out.

Like
1. Eating meat in anti Sikh
2. Covering head for always and it is Kaker.
3.Never should one remove Kaker from ones body evein while taking bath.
4.In moring eat only after taking bath
5.Eat food in iron vessals only
6.Never question some particular personality in Panth.
7. Put water over genital after urinating
8. Keep beraed untied etc. etc.

Idealy as per old scripture such things are OK but they are not rules we need to abide forever and das research about it and found that all is more ritualism and copy of non Sikhs or pagan inroads into faith.

Das respect people who keeps rules mentioned above but das only wants to say that a person still remains a Sikh even if does not keep such things foreever.


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## shearwater (Sep 29, 2008)

Every man is endowed by his Creator with certain inalienable rights.  One thing that is denied in many other religions is the *free moral agency of a person to believe what he ascertains to be the truth*.  This is true of Hinduism and Islam.  In Islam if you defect from that faith you become an apostate or infidel and are cruelly treated by your family and former friends.  One has to reckon with the end of all his decisions and determine whether the cost of leaving a belief system that appears to be false is actually worth it.  I am a Christian and when Jesus chose followers he warned them to count the cost.  One thing we may be assured of is that no decision we make may be cast in stone.  When we discover that the decision we made is wrong, we can heartily change our mind and return.  That freedom to change our mind is free moral agency.


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## spnadmin (Sep 29, 2008)

Shearwater ji

Thanks again for an interesting comment. In Sikhism the picture may be different yet again, from Islam or Hinduism or Christianity.  Just as a camel wanders from oasis to oasis in search of the water that will quench its thirst and the shade of palms that will cool it in the heat, so the mind wanders, is fickle, changeable -- thinking it knows its own way only to discover that once again the perfect oasis, the discovery of truth, has escaped its grasp. 

So the Gurus make an analogy or comparison between the camel that wanders from here to there  and the human mind that wanders from one theory of the truth to another-- deluded by its own thinking, corrupted by ego and a delusions sense of self, deceiving itself by thinking that value can be found in material reality. It is not until the camel-mind settles down, in surrender, and finds the truth of the divine within, that its wanderings, its journey is done. And at that point -- there is no need to wander again.

ਆਪਿ ਛਡਾਏ ਛੁਟੀਐ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਚਰਣ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥੪॥ 
aap shhaddaaeae shhutteeai sathigur charan samaal ||4||
If the Lord Himself saves you, then you shall be saved. Dwell upon the Feet of the True Guru. ||4||
  

 ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰਿਆ ਵਿਚਿ ਦੇਹੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥ 
man karehalaa maerae piaariaa vich dhaehee joth samaal ||
O my dear beloved camel-like mind, dwell upon the Divine Light within the body.
  

 ਗੁਰਿ ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਿਖਾਲਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਦਾਤਿ ਕਰੀ ਦਇਆਲਿ ॥੫॥ 
gur no nidhh naam vikhaaliaa har dhaath karee dhaeiaal ||5||
The Guru has shown me the nine treasures of the Naam. The Merciful Lord has bestowed this gift. ||5||
  

 ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਤੂੰ ਚੰਚਲਾ ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਛਡਿ ਵਿਕਰਾਲਿ ॥ 
man karehalaa thoon chanchalaa chathuraaee shhadd vikaraal ||
O camel-like mind, you are so fickle; give up your cleverness and corruption.
  
 ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ਤੂੰ ਹਰਿ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਤ ਕਾਲਿ ॥੬॥ 
har har naam samaal thoon har mukath karae anth kaal ||6||
Dwell upon the Name of the Lord, Har, Har; at the very last moment, the Lord shall liberate you. ||6||
  
 ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਵਡਭਾਗੀਆ ਤੂੰ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਰਤਨੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥ 
man karehalaa vaddabhaageeaa thoon giaan rathan samaal ||
O camel-like mind, you are so very fortunate; dwell upon the jewel of spiritual wisdom.
  

 ਗੁਰ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਖੜਗੁ ਹਥਿ ਧਾਰਿਆ ਜਮੁ ਮਾਰਿਅੜਾ ਜਮਕਾਲਿ ॥੭॥ 
gur giaan kharrag hathh dhhaariaa jam maariarraa jamakaal ||7||
You hold in your hands the sword of the Guru's spiritual wisdom; with this destroyer of death, kill the Messenger of Death. ||7||
  
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲੇ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭਵਹਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਭਾਲਿ ॥ 
anthar nidhhaan man karehalae bhram bhavehi baahar bhaal ||
The treasure is deep within, O camel-like mind, but you wander around outside in doubt, searching for it.
  
ਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਭੇਟਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਸਜਣੁ ਲਧੜਾ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੮॥ 
gur purakh pooraa bhaettiaa har sajan ladhharraa naal ||8||
Meeting the Perfect Guru, the Primal Being, you shall discover that the Lord, your Best Friend, is with you. ||8||
  

 ਰੰਗਿ ਰਤੜੇ ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲੇ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗੁ ਸਦਾ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥ 
rang ratharrae man karehalae har rang sadhaa samaal ||
You are engrossed in pleasures, O camel-like mind; dwell upon the Lord's lasting love instead!
  

 ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗੁ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਉਤਰੈ ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥੯॥ 
har rang kadhae n outharai gur saevaa sabadh samaal ||9||
The color of the Lord's Love never fades away; serve the Guru, and dwell upon the Word of the Shabad. ||9||
  

 ਹਮ ਪੰਖੀ ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲੇ ਹਰਿ ਤਰਵਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਅਕਾਲਿ ॥ 
ham pankhee man karehalae har tharavar purakh akaal ||
We are birds, O camel-like mind; the Lord, the Immortal Primal Being, is the tree.
  

ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥੧੦॥੨॥ 
vaddabhaagee guramukh paaeiaa jan naanak naam samaal ||10||2||
The Gurmukhs are very fortunate - they find it. O servant Nanak, dwell upon the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||10||2||

Ang 235 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharj.

I hope I am making sense here. Moral agency begins when one chooses something that has inherent value in its goodness, goodness that does not depend on human opinion to be accepted as of value. The inherent good that the camel-mind must choose is the oasis of God's lasting love. Then I suspect the motivation to switch back and forth from this to that, from one scheme to find the truth to another theory of the truth would cease.


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