# Who Is The True Guru?



## Jasdeep118 (Jul 19, 2018)

So, in the Guru Granth, it mentions the "True Guru", and they say that you have to meet the True Guru and that you will be happy, I know that the True Guru is not the 10 Gurus, but who is the True Guru? Is it Whaeguru, or some unknown Guru or Teacher in Sikhi.


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## Ishna (Jul 19, 2018)

Lately I've come to believe the True Guru is the clear, pure, rational directing mind.  I suppose some would call it a person's "higher self" but calling it a "self" is a misnomer because there's nothing different between this pure directing mind and God Itself.

You meet the True Guru when you start being able to think with this part of your mind.. listen to it, instead of being dominated by your passions and tricked by Maya (false impressions).


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## Jasdeep118 (Jul 19, 2018)

Ishna said:


> Lately I've come to believe the True Guru is the clear, pure, rational directing mind.  I suppose some would call it a person's "higher self" but calling it a "self" is a misnomer because there's nothing different between this pure directing mind and God Itself.
> 
> You meet the True Guru when you start being able to think with this part of your mind.. listen to it, instead of being dominated by your passions and tricked by Maya (false impressions).


Thank you very much Ishna Ji, I was just very confused regarding the history of Sikhism and such. So in the Guru Granth, the "True Guru" has no description and such, so I guess the True Guru can be any teacher we can conceive of  that guides us in our path, but which is higher the True Guru or the Ten Gurus? I don't believe the Ten Guru's were like messiah's dropping from the heavens by God, I consider them enlightened beings who recognized within, sorry I am just confused. I mean I questioned the Guru's as they married within their gotra's and such, but I realized what Guru Nanak said.
ਗੁਰਿ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਾ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਹੁ ॥

Gur Kehiaa Saa Kaar Kamaavahu ||

Do those deeds which the Guru has ordained.

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਓਅੰਕਾਰ (ਮਃ ੧) (੨੭):੭ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੯੩੩ ਪੰ. ੮ 
Raag Raamkali Dakhni Guru Nanak Dev


ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਕਰਣੀ ਕਾਹੇ ਧਾਵਹੁ ॥

Gur Kee Karanee Kaahae Dhhaavahu ||

Why are you chasing after the Guru's actions?

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਓਅੰਕਾਰ (ਮਃ ੧) (੨੭):੮ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੯੩੩ ਪੰ. ੮ 
Raag Raamkali Dakhni Guru Nanak Dev
Ang 933


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## Harry Haller (Jul 20, 2018)

Jasdeep118 said:


> Thank you very much Ishna Ji



you say thank you, but I don't think you quite read the post



Jasdeep118 said:


> was just very confused regarding the history of Sikhism and such.


yeah, we all are, one has to use ones own mind and intelligence to sift through



Jasdeep118 said:


> So in the Guru Granth, the "True Guru" has no description and such, so I guess the True Guru can be any teacher we can conceive of that guides us in our path,


err, no, read the post again, which was quite good, 


Ishna said:


> Lately I've come to believe the True Guru is the clear, pure, rational directing mind. I suppose some would call it a person's "higher self" but calling it a "self" is a misnomer because there's nothing different between this pure directing mind and God Itself.
> 
> You meet the True Guru when you start being able to think with this part of your mind.. listen to it, instead of being dominated by your passions and tricked by Maya (false impressions).


no, not any teacher, but the self, devoid of all the shit that corrupts and diverts, Ish is talking about a pure and disciplined mind, not some Baba or Sant. 


Jasdeep118 said:


> but which is higher the True Guru or the Ten Gurus?


One could say the ten Gurus had the pure mind ability to connect with what is the true Guru, and so their actions and thoughts were in line with the true Guru.


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## Jasdeep118 (Jul 20, 2018)

Ishna said:


> Lately I've come to believe the True Guru is the clear, pure, rational directing mind.  I suppose some would call it a person's "higher self" but calling it a "self" is a misnomer because there's nothing different between this pure directing mind and God Itself.
> 
> You meet the True Guru when you start being able to think with this part of your mind.. listen to it, instead of being dominated by your passions and tricked by Maya (false impressions).


One more thing, when you mean by True Guru, do you also mean by consciousness by the chance?


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## Ishna (Jul 22, 2018)

Jasdeep118 said:


> One more thing, when you mean by True Guru, do you also mean by consciousness by the chance?



I don't know enough about consciousness to be able to discuss it in too much details and we'd need to talk about definitions before I could go much further with it in this discussion.  The word 'consciousness' feels too imprecise.

I'll go into more detail about my current understanding.  I welcome critique and discussion about it 

Our minds have different modes of operating.  We tend to rely on our intuition and impressions of things - we run mostly on auto-pilot.  It takes effort to apply our minds to deliberate consideration of things.  I propose that it takes even more effort to consult with our higher self when considering things.  

Let me give you an example (it's not a great example!).  
Let's say I'm presented with a big bowl of delicious food.  

My auto-pilot will want me to just eat all of that food, om nom nom.  
Some effort from my brain will make me think I shouldn't eat it all, because then I'll feel full and bloated and it will make me fat.
Even more effort will make me consider where the meal came from, what it's made of, and whether eating it all - or even at all - is a proper and good thing to do.  Perhaps then I'll think the meal has actually been made with ingredients that have been acquired in a morally questionable way, and that by eating it I am contributing to systematic cruelty.  Then I might even decline the meal entirely.
I believe that in this list, number 3 would be equivalent to listening to your higher self.  Listening to Guru Sahib.

One of the aims of Sikhi is to reprogram the auto-pilot so that #3 thinking becomes #1 thinking.

--

Ah crap, have I just described Id, Ego and Superego?  :O


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## Harry Haller (Jul 23, 2018)

Ishna said:


> Ah crap, have I just described Id, Ego and Superego? :O


nah you've just encapsulated Sikhi


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## swarn bains (Jul 23, 2018)

true guru is he or she who, recites the name of God, has the knowledge of divine path, guides his students to follow the same path but has no other demand, wishes well to all


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## Harry Haller (Jul 23, 2018)

swarn bains said:


> true guru is he or she who, recites the name of God, has the knowledge of divine path, guides his students to follow the same path but has no other demand, wishes well to all


do you know any?


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## Tejwant Singh (Jul 23, 2018)

Harry Haller said:


> do you know any?


 
I know some on Berwick Street.


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## swarn bains (Jul 25, 2018)

one does not have to know any guru  but his desire, sincerity will guide him to the guru of his mental stage. the type of mental stage one has that is the kind of guru he or she finds. God has obligation to his or her subjects. God automatically guides one to the proper guru. for an example. the second guru  guru angad jee was born in a village in ferozepur district. he has a shop for selling goods of daily use. he was in a profession which everyone hates and hates the one who runs it. he was a very sincere man and his sincerity welled up from going to veshu devi temple pilgrimage.  first thing happened to him was that his store got robbed which made him to move a village in amritsar district. there he heard one person doing path of guru Nanak's bani. he stood there till the path was over and then he asked the person who's bani he was reading. the person told guru Nanak's. till now lehna did not know who Nanak was,. cutting short he became second guru of sikh faith who also designed punjabi alphabets. this is how devotee's path is created by nature depending upon what he is looking for earnestly, not asking on the internet, because you already have doubt. by the way doubt or double mindedness is number one deterrent from find a guru and following divine path


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## Ishna (Jul 25, 2018)

swarn bains said:


> one does not have to know any guru  but his desire, sincerity will guide him to the guru of his mental stage. the type of mental stage one has that is the kind of guru he or she finds. God has obligation to his or her subjects. God automatically guides one to the proper guru. for an example. the second guru  guru angad jee was born in a village in ferozepur district. he has a shop for selling goods of daily use. he was in a profession which everyone hates and hates the one who runs it. he was a very sincere man and his sincerity welled up from going to veshu devi temple pilgrimage.  first thing happened to him was that his store got robbed which made him to move a village in amritsar district. there he heard one person doing path of guru Nanak's bani. he stood there till the path was over and then he asked the person who's bani he was reading. the person told guru Nanak's. till now lehna did not know who Nanak was,. cutting short he became second guru of sikh faith who also designed punjabi alphabets. this is how devotee's path is created by nature depending upon what he is looking for earnestly, not asking on the internet, because you already have doubt. by the way doubt or double mindedness is number one deterrent from find a guru and following divine path



So, an outcome for you from translating Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji into English is the understanding that the Guru is a physical person?  Perhaps I've misunderstood you.

Do you make a distinction between human teachers (guru with a little 'g' in English, I suppose) and the Shabad Guru which is not a person and is the true Guru (with a capital 'G') for Sikhs?

If so, you are saying that the Gurbani in the original language also makes a distinction - the Gurbani is talking about the true Shabad Guru sometimes, and human gurus at other times, but our regular English translations like Dr Sant Singh Khalsa's have presented it in such a way that the English reader only sees the idea of the Shabad Guru, and no room for human gurus?


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## Sikhilove (Jul 31, 2018)

Jasdeep118 said:


> Thank you very much Ishna Ji, I was just very confused regarding the history of Sikhism and such. So in the Guru 9Granth, the "True Guru" has no description and such, so I guess the True Guru can be any teacher we can conceive of  that guides us in our path, but which is higher the True Guru or the Ten Gurus? I don't believe the Ten Guru's were like messiah's dropping from the heavens by God, I consider them enlightened beings who recognized within, sorry I am just confused. I mean I questioned the Guru's as they married within their gotra's and such, but I realized what Guru Nanak said.
> ਗੁਰਿ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਾ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਹੁ ॥
> 
> Gur Kehiaa Saa Kaar Kamaavahu ||
> ...



God spoke through the Ten Gurus

Where the Truth is spoken, God's present

God works through His devotees/ lovers


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## Sikhilove (Jul 31, 2018)

Ishna said:


> I don't know enough about consciousness to be able to discuss it in too much details and we'd need to talk about definitions before I could go much further with it in this discussion.  The word 'consciousness' feels too imprecise.
> 
> I'll go into more detail about my current understanding.  I welcome critique and discussion about it
> 
> ...



^^that is consciousness

You're becoming aware of the Maya khel and detaching from the rubbish, raising your frequency and hence consciousness

In this dark age, positivity, goodness is required to an enormously high level for an all out strike against maya

This age is a blessing of a time to be alive, the lessons are great, both slanderers and saints are teachers


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## Harry Haller (Aug 1, 2018)

Sikhilove said:


> ^^that is consciousness
> 
> You're becoming aware of the Maya khel and detaching from the rubbish, raising your frequency and hence consciousness
> 
> ...



You cannot detach yourself from the rubbish unless you go live on a desert island, you are surrounded by rubbish, if you raise your frequency and hence consciousness, all you achieve is that you don't understand the rubbish anymore, and are less able to deal with it, as the rubbish has to be dealt with, 

If this is the dark age, how would you refer to the times when Mughal soldiers marched through Delhi with Sikh heads on spears? Could you tell me what is dark about this age?

If you really want to strike against Maya, why do not do something about it? go live on a desert island? Cut yourself off from everyone and stick newspapers over your windows? In any case, whats the problem with Maya? Unless you want to live like an ascetic, Maya appears to be quite important, you talk of striking Maya, for yourself or for everyone? if its for yourself, well, get on with it, if its for everyone, who gave you that responsibility?

You say these are dark ages, and then that this age is a blessing to be alive, which is it then? 

I won't hold my breath for an answer....


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## Tasveer Singh (Aug 1, 2018)

ik onkar vhaeguru ji ka khalsa vhaeguru ji fateh.
hi. my friend is onkar and as a student of the gurus its nice to speak of god as its something i love as i love my beloved. regarding above depends on the context..sometimes in the guru granth sahib the other gurus such as guru arjun refer to nanak as the true guru. but their are also references of gurus such as nanak calling god satguru. from my own teachings which i have recieved the sat guru is onkar. onkar is the vibration which resides in all. it is pervading and permeating in all. hence god has thousand eyes but no eyes, a thousand ears but no ears. no state is hidden from the guru.The whole sikh philosphy stems from the truth ik onkar, the unstruk melody. only by gurus grace is it obtained. when you understand this concept you will also understand that god is the cause of causes. as we speak he speaks. the trees, the blades of grass, the rocks all creation chant his name onkar. such is whaeguru the wonderful teacher. going back to the above yes the true guru is god. but all are god, the creation and the creator are not seperate, as the gurus say meditating on the one the devotee and the lord become one. water mixes with water and can never be unmixed. 
such is the understanding the true guru has given me.


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## Sikhilove (Aug 1, 2018)

Tasveer Singh said:


> ik onkar vhaeguru ji ka khalsa vhaeguru ji fateh.
> hi. my friend is onkar and as a student of the gurus its nice to speak of god as its something i love as i love my beloved. regarding above depends on the context..sometimes in the guru granth sahib the other gurus such as guru arjun refer to nanak as the true guru. but their are also references of gurus such as nanak calling god satguru. from my own teachings which i have recieved the sat guru is onkar. onkar is the vibration which resides in all. it is pervading and permeating in all. hence god has thousand eyes but no eyes, a thousand ears but no ears. no state is hidden from the guru.The whole sikh philosphy stems from the truth ik onkar, the unstruk melody. only by gurus grace is it obtained. when you understand this concept you will also understand that god is the cause of causes. as we speak he speaks. the trees, the blades of grass, the rocks all creation chant his name onkar. such is whaeguru the wonderful teacher. going back to the above yes the true guru is god. but all are god, the creation and the creator are not seperate, as the gurus say meditating on the one the devotee and the lord become one. water mixes with water and can never be unmixed.
> such is the understanding the true guru has given me.



He teaches us through His creation, we just need to open our eyes and drop our egos(surrender)


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## ravneet_sb (Oct 18, 2018)

Sat Sri Akal,

True Nature has given NO RELIGION but MEMORY  which governs  and is guide.   

     In  MEMORY we keep language to speak spell and communicate and become punjabi, hindi, french etc.                      
   In MEMORY we keep professional learning to become doctor engineer etc.                              In MEMORY we keep religious text and label as religion.             
    After utilising MEMORY system we get ourself labelled as Hindi/ Punjabi/ Doctor/ CA etc.    
 In MEMORY we make store and practice.
  After getting MEMORY utilised.
We forget our MEMORY system.                       Filled memory has filth of EGO. Like bugs and virus in hard disk.
  In MEMORY we store negative information cause of DUKH (negative thoughts retrieval on imaginary sense due to negative information storage).
 In Memory we store SUKH with storage of religious. (Righteous Positive Wisdom)Cause of POSITIVE vibes on imaginative sense.
Carry forward of SUKH and DUKH belongs to MEMORY store not the outer situation which is dynamic.
   Use Natures MEMORY WEALTH for positive information. 
  MEMORY is the greatest WEALTH one owes and make physical world act. Body, family, society or nation        
         Imagine a complete MEMORY  LOSS. Where is name, fame, relation, religion. All gone.                       
         Grah Mandir Ghar Sajya.   
    In body home there is MEMORY system, which is decorated with positive thoughts.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## ravneet_sb (Oct 18, 2018)

Sat Sri Akaal,

SHABAD GURU

Word learning comes at three levels.
    Level 1 is vocal one can read write spell speak or listen to vocally understand for eg  learning apple/ gravity.   and has memorized.

 Level 2 is visualisation or realisation. One has to see/realisr apple ONCE.  to be able to see apple. 

 Level 3 is eating apple/ applying gravity to human use to feel the importance.   That is applied learning, which is self owned effort.  Level 3 learning of word and sentence  brings change of behaviour values.   If voice making is not leading to changes in behaviour. 

Each WORD has light sound and matter in real WORLD.     Its for seeker to have voice, light or realisation of WORD.

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## ravneet_sb (Oct 18, 2018)

Sat Sri Akaal,

Once one understand MEMORY system,
A devotee can erase junk storage of Negatives, non executable positive, thoughts of disease and suffering.

Such Hovai tan Such Paiyey

If system is clean and has space, the TRUTH, Gurus Bani one can memorise.

Sat Miley Param Gat Payiey.

Understanding TRUTH one can reinitiate system, to get nitial processing speed.

Active Mind Always Alert.

With available space, one shall fill up with


*Thaal Vich Tin Vastu Paio
Sat Santokh Vichaaro
Amrit Nam Thakur Ka Paio
Jis Ka Sabas Adhaaro
Je Ko Khave Je Ko Bhunchai
Tis Ka Hoe Udhaaro
Eb Vast Taji Neh Jaai
Nit Nit Rakh Urdharo
Tam Sansaar Charan Lag Tariai
Sab Nanak Brahm Pasaaro* 





_Sri Guru Granth Sahib(1429)_ 




In this platter(holy book)

SAT(TRUTH) .SANTOKH(PATIENCE) and VICHAR (MEDITATIION)

Amrit (Immortal) Naam (Word Form) Thakur (Owner Nature) ka peyo (is Kept)
 Jiska sabsa adhaaro.                                  Every mind thought has this base.



But active mind shall have positive work to perform SEVA,  else enegising Mind is problem for SELF and others

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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