# A Dream SO BIG , I Am Scared To See It



## Seeker2013 (Apr 15, 2016)

I have a dream , an unusual one.

I want to travel to canada, settle there, and marry a man , when infact I am a man myself
Since my country has no legal, family or social support for gay men, I find it very hard to survive here . It seems like my only options in this backward country are remaining single for life or marrying a woman.
Asking me to choose from one of the above is like asking one to choose death by drinking poison or by hanging.




 

MY dream is to travel to a far away country and it won't be a travel of just a few thousand miles but also a time travel from a 1860 india where I live currently to a post-modern country canada.

But the bitter reality rears its head with a hundred question staring at me mercilessly.
How do I get there ? what options do I have ?
why would (should) they take me when they have so many applicants every year ?
How will I settle there, buy a house, find a man who would actually commit , and then marrying and then getting my parents to accept it !
How will I get so much money AND A ViSA to fulfil my dreams.

And then I am reminded that perhaps god blessed me with a career in IT just so I can manage for myself to travel to canada . But how ? its such a long and uncertain journey
I wonder how will I ever manage to make it there, considering I am only 26 and barely started my career less than a year back

*This dream is so big and so mirage-like, I am actually scared to see it. *

What should I do ? please if you can help me (NOTE : I am not saying send me a canada visa. I know u can't do it lol )


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## Harkiran Kaur (Apr 15, 2016)

Your options might be better if you met a man online, and married in India and applied for PR status. Certainly would be quicker as trying to get a work visa is nearly impossible (for things like IT where we have many qualified Canadians already). Usually work visa is for those specialized positions where there is nobody suitable here already (like an engineer for a specific product which is being adapted in Canada etc.) Another option is the provincial allocations. Each province has a certain number they can sponsor each year. It's very very tough to get those however. But you can try. It might take 6-7 years before you get accepted if you do... best bet is try to find someone in Canada already and marry them over there in India, then apply for Permanent Resident status as a spouse which is pretty much guaranteed.


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## Seeker2013 (Apr 15, 2016)

Harkiran Kaur said:


> Your options might be better if you met a man online, and married in India and applied for PR status. Certainly would be quicker as trying to get a work visa is nearly impossible (for things like IT where we have many qualified Canadians already). Usually work visa is for those specialized positions where there is nobody suitable here already (like an engineer for a specific product which is being adapted in Canada etc.) Another option is the provincial allocations. Each province has a certain number they can sponsor each year. It's very very tough to get those however. But you can try. It might take 6-7 years before you get accepted if you do... best bet is try to find someone in Canada already and marry them over there in India, then apply for Permanent Resident status as a spouse which is pretty much guaranteed.



how about going to canada on a tourist visa and then marrying someone. Finding someone online from canada is difficult I think .
Anyways your answer that it is tough to get there via IT is saddening news for me :/
how about I go there as a taxi driver or something, and once I get PR, I start again with IT . 
is that even possible


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## Harkiran Kaur (Apr 15, 2016)

I won't  beat around the bush, 75% of tourist visas are rejected from India. Reason being is most try to overstay their visa and / or work.  Further you will hurt your PR chances. 

- If you put on your tourist Visa that its for tourism, and sight seeing and then marry (you still have to go back to India you can NOT extend a visitor visa inside Canada) when you apply for PR they will see that you lied for your reasons for the visitor visa (that being you went to Canada NOT for tourism, but to marry).
- If you ARE honest on your TRV application, they will reject it because of the reason that they will think your ultimate goal is to stay in Canada. They will know a PR is coming after that. And since India has a BAD record of people overstaying their Visa, CIC will think you will overstay once you are married. They consider your new spouse as a 'tie in Canada' causing you to be drawn to stay here and won't return.

Either way you will have to prove in their mind that you will return, and this is easier said than done. You will need SOLID proof that you WILL be back in India before the visa expires. Just a letter from an employer is not enough. They want assets in India, volunteer work with NGOs, dependent parents etc. Proof you are taking part in some conference or camp etc that you MUST be back for, and they will want ALL OF THE ABOVE, not just one of the above.   And even then they can reject stating that your new spouse is a tie in Canada therefore you are at risk of overstay.

Sorry... as with anything you can try. But rejection rate is HIGH like 75%


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## Seeker2013 (Apr 15, 2016)

Harkiran Kaur said:


> I won't  beat around the bush, 75% of tourist visas are rejected from India. Reason being is most try to overstay their visa and / or work.  Further you will hurt your PR chances.
> 
> - If you put on your tourist Visa that its for tourism, and sight seeing and then marry (you still have to go back to India you can NOT extend a visitor visa inside Canada) when you apply for PR they will see that you lied for your reasons for the visitor visa (that being you went to Canada NOT for tourism, but to marry).
> - If you ARE honest on your TRV application, they will reject it because of the reason that they will think your ultimate goal is to stay in Canada. They will know a PR is coming after that. And since India has a BAD record of people overstaying their Visa, CIC will think you will overstay once you are married. They consider your new spouse as a 'tie in Canada' causing you to be drawn to stay here and won't return.
> ...



thank u so much for sharing your knowledge.
So like what should I do ?
try some other gay friendly country or try coming via some other profession ? 
finding a guy online and then marrying him in india (india doesn't support gay marriage anyways) sounds a bit tricky.

Do you mind clarifying further ? thank u ji

PS: I wonder how so many of our Punjabi Sikhs managed to go and PR there . my cousin went some 2 yrs back and now pretty much set. 

I have to escape this hell called india , but how do I


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## Harkiran Kaur (Apr 15, 2016)

I don't know what to tell you... Maybe one of the European countries??


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## Seeker2013 (Apr 16, 2016)

Harkiran Kaur said:


> I don't know what to tell you... Maybe one of the European countries??


I guess it must not be very easy there either. I think australia is pretty good too.
If waheguru ji wants, he can take me anywhere. Right now I can only do his sewa if he wants me to and hope he keeps his word when he said "Iccha purak sarab sukh data har jaa ke vas hai kaamdhena" (The Lord is the fulfiller of wishes who has the mythical wish-fulfiling cow under his control)
He's "kaaran karan" (the cause behind causes). I can only keep faith in him regarding this area of my life and I hope he intervenes just like he did less than a year back regarding my job and I know he will . He won't disappoint me 
but I will have to do some earthly efforts alongside


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## Harkiran Kaur (Apr 16, 2016)

So I am assuming marriage is high on your list? Why marry someone unless it's the right person anyway? Just to be married? You will be miserable... Unless it's the right person and there is love. Otherwise I know one Singh who to avoid the inevitable marriage planning by his parents, he told them he'd rather live life of celibacy as a nanaksar Ragi. (They don't get married) and so he was able to avoid telling them about not being interested in girls and avoid having to get married to one. His parents saw it as a religious commitment and were happy. However he had to decide to never be married and to live as a celibate. But it worked for him. Otherwise of marriage is hugely important to you then make sure you are not just jumping into marriage with anyone. Make sure it's the right person and then be prepared to have to deal with your parents etc.


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## Seeker2013 (Apr 17, 2016)

Harkiran Kaur said:


> So I am assuming marriage is high on your list? Why marry someone unless it's the right person anyway? Just to be married? You will be miserable... Unless it's the right person and there is love. Otherwise I know one Singh who to avoid the inevitable marriage planning by his parents, he told them he'd rather live life of celibacy as a nanaksar Ragi. (They don't get married) and so he was able to avoid telling them about not being interested in girls and avoid having to get married to one. His parents saw it as a religious commitment and were happy. However he had to decide to never be married and to live as a celibate. But it worked for him. Otherwise of marriage is hugely important to you then make sure you are not just jumping into marriage with anyone. Make sure it's the right person and then be prepared to have to deal with your parents etc.



so he became a nanaksar ragi then ? 
I know of one hindu guy in india whose parents gave him only 2 options : either marry a girl or take sanyaas .
I think this is wrong . Gays don't owe any explanation to society, because rights and duties are two sides of same coin. If no rights, then duties can't be expected.
Society doesn't go to 9-6 job for me or pay my bills, or help me in other ways, so they shouldn't be here to ask questions and expect answers. 

Also I would rather tell my parents the truth . I have told them already but they think I have some hormonal imbalance. They're in denial . But being a single child, its unlikely they will disown me anyways. I have this privilege atleast !


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## Seeker2013 (Apr 17, 2016)

Harkiran Kaur said:


> So I am assuming marriage is high on your list? Why marry someone unless it's the right person anyway? Just to be married? You will be miserable... Unless it's the right person and there is love. Otherwise I know one Singh who to avoid the inevitable marriage planning by his parents, he told them he'd rather live life of celibacy as a nanaksar Ragi. (They don't get married) and so he was able to avoid telling them about not being interested in girls and avoid having to get married to one. His parents saw it as a religious commitment and were happy. However he had to decide to never be married and to live as a celibate. But it worked for him. Otherwise of marriage is hugely important to you then make sure you are not just jumping into marriage with anyone. Make sure it's the right person and then be prepared to have to deal with your parents etc.


I have at times felt very angry on heterosexual majoritatian society for denying me brutally my right to life. I have at times felt its totally ok to "ruin" a girls life by marrying her.
But when thinking with cool mind, I can see beyond all that and wonder Why I am gay ?
For all probability, it could be because I did something wrong with some girl in my past life. Perhaps being gay is just a punishment for that . you never know !
So why reap more bad karma by keeping a girl in dark then ?
I am being selfish here again

Its not just about marriage, its about right to experience love in this lifetime. You have no idea of how much it hurts when you being a 26 yr old is yet to experience that joy of being with someone . It feels like my life is passing and I am old already . When I see all these happy love marriages of people in their 20's and when they post their pics on facebook of how happy they're and in conjugal bliss, its as if someone stabbing with knives on my heart. And everytime, every other day. its emotional torment


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## Harry Haller (Apr 17, 2016)

sorry, can I just have some clarification, are you saying gay people are gay because it is a punishment?


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## Seeker2013 (Apr 17, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> sorry, can I just have some clarification, are you saying gay people are gay because it is a punishment?


could be ! Considering there's so much struggle and we're so disadvantaged , it might be a sort of punishment .


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## Seeker2013 (Apr 17, 2016)

It could be I did a mix of both good and bad karmas , for the good ones I got nice parents , a home of my own, a standard education , a nice job, etc and perhaps for the bad ones I was born gay and perhaps might have to live a loveless life for the rest of my life , without any partner or family of my own.
Hence to marry a woman without telling her (which is what a lot of gay men do ), it would be not only morally wrong but also will add more negative karmic points on my soul, which is not what i want.

Apart from that, I think god is watching, listening, hearing and he will respond at the right time, perhaps when I have even lost any expectation of help from him and when perhaps I have even stopped believing in him again (like how I was an atheist till a year back)


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## Harry Haller (Apr 17, 2016)

But if your a Sikh, and you believe this, that must mean that Ek Onkar views all gays as sinners?


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## Seeker2013 (Apr 17, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> But if your a Sikh, and you believe this, that must mean that Ek Onkar views all gays as sinners?


no . not as sinners .
I sometimes saw beggars and mad people on the street, and wondered 'god, why u foresake them? such misery' .
Then from somewhere a thought comes in my head as if god's explanation 
"There's a child who acts badly. The teacher sends him outside the class to kneel down. It hurts him, he feels teacher thinks he's a sinner. Some kids who think the only life is that school period might think the teacher foresake that student. how cruel, but when the period ends ,the kid is back in class". What happened here ? the kid wasn't a sinner , but he did mistake for which teacher punished him and after his punishment, he's back in class.
Perhaps, same way people who live truly miserable lives throughout their lives are like that kid outside the class. Their whole life is perhaps a punishment but then from a sikhi viewpoint, life itself is just a momentful thing "


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## Harry Haller (Apr 17, 2016)

no, your not making sense, so god does not view gays as sinners, but your saying that your bad karmas have made you gay?


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## Seeker2013 (Apr 17, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> no, your not making sense, so god does not view gays as sinners, but your saying that your bad karmas have made you gay?


yes 
maybe, but I agree its all conjecture


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## Harry Haller (Apr 17, 2016)

not really, my understanding is that Ek Onkar views all living beings as equal and complete, you being gay is neither here nor there to anyone other than yourself, the torture you feel would there whether you were gay or not, you are unable to ride things, anything in your life that is not going your way is a crisis, the fact that you see being gay as a punishment is in my view wrong, but then again, I don't read much bani, so your probably better off speaking to someone who carries out all the rituals and readings.


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## Rajwinder (Apr 17, 2016)

That is true that india is not a same sex relation supporter and i doubt it will be in near future, out of curiosity .. lets say u find a country and visa and person to get married .. what is the plan after that .. ? where i am getting is this .. 
it seems like your only purpose in life is getting married. to me that's like jumping the gun , may be it's time to take a step back and think about it ..  ;-).


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## namritanevaeh (Apr 28, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> not really, my understanding is that Ek Onkar views all living beings as equal and complete, you being gay is neither here nor there to anyone other than yourself, the torture you feel would there whether you were gay or not,



I've read some fascinating science recently on chimeras that suggests that there's a good chance that people who are born one sex who identify with another somehow (be it that they are gay or even feel they are male born with female characteristics/vice versa) are very likely chimeras.

Chimeras are fascinating situations to begin with. One lady found out her kids (who had not been separated from her at birth in any way), were not "biologically hers". How? They were biologically the offspring of her fraternal twin sister, absorbed into her cells at an early embryonic state (that's what a chimera is). It's essentially the opposite of an identical twin, where one cell divides into 2 that move a bit too far away and become two separate people with the same DNA. Chimeras are two cells that start off different, and merge into 1. Some people have discovered their liver is not part of their regular DNA. Their ovaries. Various body parts. People with two differently coloured eyes may well be able to blame that on chimerism. And from a biological standpoint this makes perfect sense that having one cell for a male child merges into a female cell which ends up re the part that is responsible for where the child feels male be expressed in a child with outwardly female sex characteristics. Or vice versa. It is absolutely fascinating science, and it is the best explanation for homosexuality and how it happens that I have ever come across. When chimeras were first discovered, scientists thought they were very rare. They are discovering now that they're not as rare as all that. Additionally, traditional DNA testing say for paternity or to test hair cells against semen in cases of homocide or rape...may not be as cut and dried as originally thought either. If your hair roots are one person and your testicles are actually a chimera of your fraternal twin, reabsorbed...you may get off Scott free where you shouldn't have. Or your paternity test may come back negative when your wife didn't actually sleep with the neighbour... 



> better off speaking to someone who carries out all the rituals and readings.



Just a question...I thought Sikhi was against ritual?


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## Harry Haller (Apr 28, 2016)

namritanevaeh said:


> I've read some fascinating science recently on chimeras that suggests that there's a good chance that people who are born one sex who identify with another somehow (be it that they are gay or even feel they are male born with female characteristics/vice versa) are very likely chimeras.
> 
> Chimeras are fascinating situations to begin with. One lady found out her kids (who had not been separated from her at birth in any way), were not "biologically hers". How? They were biologically the offspring of her fraternal twin sister, absorbed into her cells at an early embryonic state (that's what a chimera is). It's essentially the opposite of an identical twin, where one cell divides into 2 that move a bit too far away and become two separate people with the same DNA. Chimeras are two cells that start off different, and merge into 1. Some people have discovered their liver is not part of their regular DNA. Their ovaries. Various body parts. People with two differently coloured eyes may well be able to blame that on chimerism. And from a biological standpoint this makes perfect sense that having one cell for a male child merges into a female cell which ends up re the part that is responsible for where the child feels male be expressed in a child with outwardly female sex characteristics. Or vice versa. It is absolutely fascinating science, and it is the best explanation for homosexuality and how it happens that I have ever come across. When chimeras were first discovered, scientists thought they were very rare. They are discovering now that they're not as rare as all that. Additionally, traditional DNA testing say for paternity or to test hair cells against semen in cases of homocide or rape...may not be as cut and dried as originally thought either. If your hair roots are one person and your testicles are actually a chimera of your fraternal twin, reabsorbed...you may get off Scott free where you shouldn't have. Or your paternity test may come back negative when your wife didn't actually sleep with the neighbour...
> 
> ...



ok, from here on, if its in green, its sarcasm....


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## namritanevaeh (Apr 28, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> ok, from here on, if its in green, its sarcasm....


???

I don't understand what is in green...?


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## Harry Haller (Apr 28, 2016)

better off speaking to someone who carries out all the rituals and readings
this is sarcasm!


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## namritanevaeh (Apr 28, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> better off speaking to someone who carries out all the rituals and readings
> this is sarcasm!


Sorry I'm a bit dense tonight evidently.


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