# How Does The Creator Speak To His Creation? An Interfaith Dialog



## spnadmin (May 17, 2009)

So why did God remove Adam from Heaven? And what is the reaction of Sikhs and others?

YouTube - Aziz Mian - Aasmaan Se Utaara Gayaa


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## helgasdogs (Dec 10, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> So why did God remove Adam from Heaven? And what is the reaction of Sikhs and others?
> 
> YouTube - Aziz Mian - Aasmaan Se Utaara Gayaa


 
Dear Narayanjot,

The One ('God') did not remove Adam from Heaven. Adam was created to live in the Garden of Eden, which is on Terra ('Earth'). Adam was ejected from Eden along with Eve after Eve persuaded him to eat, as she did, of the fruit (not an apple, but, still a fruit) of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, which Christians honour unwittingly in the form of a Christmas Tree (usually a pine or spruce tree, decorated with opaque coloured glass spheres and other germane ornaments, silver tinsel and garland, strings of coloured lights, and the symbolic Star of Bethlehem on top).

Adam and Eve ate of the fruit of the pine tree, which is a psychedelic mushroom known as the Amanita Muscaria, growing out of the roots of the pine tree, and which disrupted their original psychological harmony with their Creator, thereby contaminating all of Creation with one sin, which, since all is in relationship to all, became Original Sin leading to nearly no end of troubles for mankind and Creation generally. In memory of this, I as a Catholic Fremen place an image of the Amanita Muscaria at the base of my family's Christmas Tree.

Yours,

'h'


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## spnadmin (Dec 10, 2010)

helgasdogs ji

I think you have to take Narayanjot Kaur ji's comment less literally. The video is an extremely ironic arrangement in which a Mulsim belief about God, Adam and Eve  is  told by one of the most highly acclaimed Qawwali performers of all times. He is making the audience laugh because he is singing, explaining, the knotty predicaments encountered by man and god, using the fall from grace as the basis for that. 

So her question was really asking "Did the question of Adam's fall ever get answered? " Sometimes I myself do think that Narayanjot is too subtle and too ironic for her own good. She is often misunderstood when she is taken literally. Of course Narayanjot does not think that Adam fell from heaven. Because I know for a fact she does not even believe there is a heaven. But she is a major fan of Qawwali.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Dec 11, 2010)

The CREATOR is ever present in each molecule of His CREATION...(kann kann in Punjabi/Gurbani)...........
The CREATOR is present in each of US.........

query:.........WHY would the CREATOR ...."wait" for a child to be born..grow up...reach age of about 25....and then begin telling us 'HIS" message ?? He has the "power" to reveal His Message to each and all at any time...He doesnt need Messengers...

That is why Sheikh Farid Ji in His sloks advises us..LOOK UNDER your collar..deep within YOURSELF.....His Message is there inside you.icecreammunda


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## helgasdogs (Dec 11, 2010)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> The CREATOR is ever present in each molecule of His CREATION...(kann kann in Punjabi/Gurbani)...........
> The CREATOR is present in each of US.........
> 
> query:.........WHY would the CREATOR ...."wait" for a child to be born..grow up...reach age of about 25....and then begin telling us 'HIS" message ?? He has the "power" to reveal His Message to each and all at any time...He doesnt need Messengers...
> ...


 
Dear Gyani,

Because, there is a place for everything and everything in its place.  Asking why 'God' did not merely reveal Himself to all, everywhere, is to ask why 'God' made a flawed Creation in the first place.  There are _reasons_ why things happen or do not happen.

The mind of man is both spirit and material, not in an admixed sense, but, in the sense that the mind is spiritual, and the material casts its shadow into the mind to allow the mind to interact with matter.  Thus, the mind is more than just spirit, but, not material.  You are not your grandfather, but, the shadow of your grandfather's existence casts itself into your mind, informing who you are.

*
 Christian proselytizing has been removed.*

 No one can have a loving relationship with an inconceivable being, for such love would be anti-rational, and, therefore, lack meaning and conviction.  One might as well try to love a square circle, whatever that is.

*Christian proselytizing has been removed.* 

Shall we ignore the first two, and focus only on the second?  How can you reprove someone whose heart will be different from your own?  How can you isolate the essentials, discriminating between what is primary and what is secondary in the heart, by appeals to the heart alone?

Women focus on their hearts alone.  Men must focus on Words also.

Yours,

'h'


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## spnadmin (Dec 11, 2010)

*Admin note: *

There is a ready recipe for bitter exchanges on religious forums. And it goes like this: 

"I have a belief that I will put forward. And I will argue vigorously in the face of claims, beliefs and opinions asserted by those from other religions. No matter what the other says, I will find fault with it. I will definitely be certain that my views are correct, and continually point out the weakness of the other's views. By doing that I will dominate the discussion and make sure that i wear the opposition down. That is my debate strategy and I shall not deviate from it."

But in this thread we need to take note of two things that make the hard edge approach not only unnecessary but also inappropriate.

The thread title contains two ideas: 1) this is an interfaith dialog; and 2) God speaks to his creation. A dialog is the exchange of words that give voice to organized thoughts or "logos" between  two points of view "dia." 

To keep this thread an exchange of organized thoughts between two or more points of view, let's take this approach. Do not proselytize for your faith. Think first of the starter video. In the video God is speaking to a Muslim about Adam's fall from grace, in the language that a Muslim hears and replies to. Sikhs will definitely have a different view of their conversation with God. Christians may have another. Followers of the Dune path may have another idea of the conversation. Keep it on the plane of a dialog, not a debate. Keep it "interfaith" so that members of different paths can discuss without enmity. Refrain from contradicting the beliefs of another, or pointing out the weaknesses of their religion.  Rather state how your religious or philosophical orientation is a unique way to hear that conversation between you and God. If you are an atheist, be relevant.  Finally, remember that this is a Sikh forum.


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## spnadmin (Dec 11, 2010)

helgasdogs ji

I am going to respectfully ask you either to back off on some of the ideas you have pointed to here, or to give some more context to explain why you believe the following claims are true.


Because, there is a place for everything and everything in its place.  

Asking why 'God' did not merely reveal Himself to all, everywhere, is to ask why 'God' made a flawed Creation in the first place.  

The mind of man is both spirit and material, not in an admixed sense, but, in the sense that the mind is spiritual, and the material casts its shadow into the mind to allow the mind to interact with matter.  

Thus, the mind is more than just spirit, but, not material.  

You are not your grandfather, but, the shadow of your grandfather's existence casts itself into your mind, informing who you are.

No one can have a loving relationship with an inconceivable being, for such love would be anti-rational, and, therefore, lack meaning and conviction.  One might as well try to love a square circle, whatever that is.
 
How can you reprove someone whose heart will be different from your own?  

How can you isolate the essentials, discriminating between what is primary and what is secondary in the heart, by appeals to the heart alone?
 
Women focus on their hearts alone.  Men must focus on Words also.
 
Thanks so much


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