# Is It Ok To Have Langar On Chairs And Tables?



## etinder (Nov 10, 2004)

I m not aware of the practices in the gurudwaras worldwide, but usually its seen that quite a few number of gurudwars in North america have chairs n tables in the langar hall and there is a quite a number of sangat that sits there and take langar.
so, Is it against maryada to have langar on chairs n tables? why?


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## Amarpal (Nov 11, 2004)

Dear etinder Jee,

The institution of Langar was created by Guru Sahib to erase the feeling of caste that was imprinted into the mind of people if India due to historical reasons. The concept of equality is forged into the mind of Sangat by eating together in langar. This concept alone should not be violated. 

If all members in Sangat are treated alike i.e. all eat in langar sitting on chairs with tables in front of them to keep the served plates; this does not violate the concept of equality, it is in order. Under such conditions, there is nothing wrong in having chairs and tables in Langar Halls. 

The question of Maryada does not arise. 

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal


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## CaramelChocolate (Nov 11, 2004)

I think there should be chairs and tables for the elderly only... and to keep everyone on the same level, the chairs should be on a lower platform so that the seat of the chair is at exactly the same level at the floor. 

This has been done in the actual Gurdwara prayer room at the big Gurdwara in Southall, London.

~CaramelChocolate~
The Little Philosopher


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## drkhalsa (Nov 11, 2004)

I personally totally agree with what Caramel has said, thinking rationally it appears that there is no problem if we take langer on chair but the thing is if we can take it while seated then what is need of chair, off course in case of old, pregnant , and sick people it is additional advantage and this should be ideally available in every gurudwara but for normal healthy individual I cant think of any reason for that  more over In some gurudwaras i have seen both facilities are available ( chair and  floor) and when some people take langar while sitting on chair s it just gives the reflection of state oftheir mind  ( Which i think is  personal ego) and what I think is while in gurudwara it is a good chance for every body to spend some time in day without there personnel ego , As such I don’t feel anything  against the people sitting on chair but it is kind of personal preference that i would always like to have it while seated on floor


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Nov 12, 2004)

IMHO...IT is not  a problem of Maryada because on tables and chairs also as long as all the furniture is the SAME - in level height, design, comfort... and there is no discrimination... then it is all the same as on the floor.

Personally i will sit anywhere there is a vacancy - if  achair becomes vacant i will use it and if a place on the floor becomes vacant i will sit there.

IF anyone sitting on the floor "feels superior" that he is following the Guru's Maryada and looks at the people on chairs as not following maryada..than he is feding his ego..creating more haumaii only.

Jarnail singh


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## drkhalsa (Nov 12, 2004)

IF anyone sitting on the floor "feels superior" that he is following the Guru's Maryada and looks at the people on chairs as not following maryada..than he is feding his ego..creating more haumaii only.

Dear Jarnail Singh ji 
YOU are quite right in saying so and thanks for your response


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## Sher_Singh (Nov 12, 2004)

The elderly do have a right to sit on chairs as it is not in their physical nature to sit on the floor. But feeling superior sitting on a higher seat to everyone else is only increasing the egoism within yourelf - and God does see that.

Guru Fateh.


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## truthseeker (Nov 13, 2004)

I definately agree, if some chooses to sit on a chair then that is there choice, but it becomes a problem when they start to buiold up that ego inside them which makes them feel superior to the others in the gurudwara at that time. For elder people it is hard to sit on the floor and that is understandable but it isnt right when people sit on chairs simply because they do not find the floor comfortable. 

Fateh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Nov 14, 2004)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki fateh.


The problem arose because some people have TWISTED the meaning of PANGAT to mean "sitting on the floor".  Pangat actually means IN A LINE, or ROW or Column.  LOOK in any dictionary, kosh and you will see that not in a single place is PANGAT defined as "sitting on the floor". I have all the latest and olde dictionaries of Punjabi-English, even the ones on the internet on line, and most importantly even the MAHAN KOSH of Kahn Singh Nabha gives the meaning of PANGAT as LINE ( ktar).

Secondly there is a FALSE sense of "humility" attached to "sitting on the floor". This sitting on the floor is an Asian Trait...Muslims, Hindus and others also sit on the floor. Does this alone make all these EXTRA HUMBLE as compared to say the Christians ? Have these so called "humble" religion followers KILLED any less people, robbed any less people of their rightful lands, raped and plundered any less than say the Christians ?  Are the Snakes, etc who CRAWL along the floor all their life.... any more HUMBLE than say other life forms ??

GURBANI and our GURUS were above all such "FRAUDALENT" behaviours...like ooch neech, such bhit, khooth such, bathing purity, jaat paat. GURU JI saw what caste divisions were doing to the people... LOW CASTES couldnt eat with the higher cates, they couldnt bathe at the same places as high castes, they couldnt walk at places frequented by high castes, they couldnt drink water from tas and wells of the high castes....THESE were the EVILS the GURUS tried to abolish by providing COMMON LANGGAR ( where everyone regardeless of caste etc ate TOGETHER ) they provided SAROVARS...where EVERYONE regardeless of caste COULD BATHE TOGETHER ( instead of separate wells etc ). IT so just happened that langgars catering to thousands were better served by FLOOR SITTING.. imagine the logistics of thousands of chairs, places to keep such in storage etc especially when Gurdwaras were rudimentary. For example at Holla Mahalla in Anandpur recently nearly 5 million people were fed Langgar daily for a week... fro such huge crowds langgar on the floor is a necessity...NOT GUR MARYADA REQUIREMENT.

There is NOT a SINGLE LINE in GURBANI or Bhai gurdass Ji's Vaars that REQUIRE SITTING ON THE FLOOR as MANDATORY MARYADA for Langgar...conveneince - YES, Practicality - YES, tradition - YES...BUT STRICTLY MARYADA - NO.  In this instance ALL SINGLE LINES are taken out of context and given a twisted meaning...IF the ENTIRE SHABAD is taken as a whole and translated... the meaning will be clearly NOT what the Floor sitters say it is.  IF Sitting on the FLOOR was that mandatory maryada the GUrus would have mentioned it more clearly and unequivocally in GURBANI and hukmnamas...BUT surprisingly it IS NOT.

Our GURUS were stricklers for HYGEINE rather than the brahmin ideas about sucham bhittam.. it is definitley more practical and hygenical to CLEAN and WIPE tables when langgar spills occur....THAN say Tappars and Saffan whcih are impossible to Clean if dal etc is spilled...it is all RUBBED IN for bacteria to spread. Wearing shoes when eating off tables in no way offends any sikhi/gurmat rule...but still no one wears shoes in langgar halls..BUT walking barefooted on tappars filled with dried up daal and kheer of yester years is definitley NOT HEALTHY for anyone...as a lot of DUST is stirred up directly into Thalis.  Langgar halls floors and tables and chairs benches are WASHED every DAY...BUT the Tappars and Carpets are rolled up week after week, year after year....
Now lets us consider a few other relevant points:
The AKAL TAKHAT - this is NOT a building of bricks and stones . IT is the THRONE of AKAL PURAKH, WAHEGURU as opposed to the Throne of Delhi/any other country. The THRONE OF AKAAL just like the KHALSA of WAHEGURU are entities that are FOREVER...FREE of the shackles of Time, and this WORLD. Individuals, buildings, aikhs that are IN THIS WORLD will go after their time is over....BUT NOT the AKAAL TAKHAT....of the TIMELESS ONE.  SO what "HUKMNAMA" will come from this REAL AKAAL TAKHAT - there can be ONLY ONE HUKMNAMA from this Takhat - the HUKMNAMA called GURBANI which is the Guiding LIght of the KHALSA. GURBANI is the ONE thing in this World that is TIMELESS and it comes from AKAAL - WAHEGURU. So we MUST look to GURBANI for guidance...GURBANI has been written ONCE, and it cannot be Changed or altered or Withdrawn or cancelled..IT is TRULY TIMELESS....and GURBANI doesnt say WE MUST SIT ON THE FLOOR for LANGGAR or it is WRONG to sit on Tables for Langgar. The WORD used is PANGAT and that means LINE, ROW, COLUMN...in other words... a ROW/COLUMN/LINE of people of all races, creeds, religions, height/weight/colour/caste/shape...TOGETHER sharing their FOOD so that NO ONE feels left out/neglected/slighted/in any way whatsoever.
Isnt it totally surprising that langgar on tables and chairs has been INSTITUTIONALISED in Overseas GURDWARAS for nearly 100 YEARS... countless  jathedars, sants, priest, granthis, raagis, kathakaars including luminaries like Sant Principal Teja Singh Double MA ( from HARVARD) all VISITED these Gurdwars and ate langgar on tables and chairs and none saw any thing WRONG or anti maryada....until POLITICS reared its ugly head. This "hukmnama" has got to be the ONE that caused the most animosity, clashes, millions of dollars in litigations, police presence, fights and a CIRCUS of SIKHS in the World Media. The RSS and Anti-Sikhs must be Laughing till they fall of their own Tables and Chairs looking at what the Sikhs are doing to themselves.

The PRINCIPLES of RELIGION cannot be changed....but traditions, maryada, rrules, regulations etc can be changed and are changed according to time and period and society we live in. At one time every jatt in Punjab ate his luch under a tree in his khet itself..now a days many if not all come home to eat luch seated on a manja with an electric fan to cool down. Punjabi schools used to have classes on the GROUND outside under trees...now there are very few schools that do this. At one time all Rural wedings usd to take place in the village homes....and langgar used to be seved on khes and chadran...then came the Marriage palaces and CATERERS...no more cooking, no more khes and darrian...Times change and so do people..NO ONE can hold back such changes especially when they are NOT AGAINST GURBANI or the PRINCIPLES of GURMATT.

Jarnail Singh


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## etinder (Nov 14, 2004)

gyaniji
i have seen people wearing shoes in the langar hall and sitting on tables and chairs? whats ur opinion regarding that ?
bhul chuk maaf


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Nov 15, 2004)

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.

IF some people had their way..SHOES would be BANNED as soon as you entered the Gurdwara Compound.....LEAVE THEM AT HOME...these people would say....
But as matters stand shoes are only banned in the DARBAR SAHIB where GURU JI is parkash......and FROWNED upon in other places of the Gurdwara especially the Langgar hall.

This is NOT a matter of MARYADA...the SIKH REHAT MARYADA clearly states that even when CARRYING SROOP of GURU JI on your head....IF the place underfoot is muddy, dirty, in any way YOU ARE FREE TO PUT ON YOUR SHOES. It would be totally STUPID to take off your shoes for an ardass for example and get your feet all muddied up !! but some people are 'sticklers" for "tradition" and end up making their cars dirty as well..let them be is my motto.

Similalry IF the langgar Hall floor is dirty/muddy ( fat chance with marble gurdwaras)...you "can" wear shoes..BUT my thinking is wearing shoes INSIDE a building is NOT our custom. SO if we dont wear shoes in OUR HOME KITCHEN/DINING HALL...why should we inssit on wearing shoes in the Gurdwara Langgar hall. IN my localGurdwara, signs have been put up saying: NO SHOES Please....BUT some diehards still INSIST on coming in shoes...and after a few fist fights and scuffles...the issue has been let things be...IF someone wants to wear shoes..let him..GURU JI will "punish" him ( but I dont beleive that will happen)

By now Etinder Ji you would have got my "drift" as the Cowboys say in hollywood westerns... Let People BE.... IF some want to walk barefoot in mud...OK its their feet....IF others want to wear shoes on a washed marble floor... well its their gurdwara too.


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## etinder (Nov 16, 2004)

gyaniji 

what if somebody comes to darbar sahib or where there is prakash of gurusahib

whats ur stance on that?
bhul chuk maaf


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Nov 17, 2004)

etinder said:
			
		

> gyaniji
> 
> what if somebody comes to darbar sahib or where there is prakash of gurusahib
> 
> ...


NO SHOES in the darbar Sahib/ Parkash Asthaan of Guru Granth Ji....Under any circumstances.

Jarnail singh


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## etinder (Nov 17, 2004)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
			
		

> NO SHOES in the darbar Sahib/ Parkash Asthaan of Guru Granth Ji....Under any circumstances.
> 
> Jarnail singh


gyani ji! i humbly ask please state the reasons for ur statement too?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Nov 19, 2004)

etinder said:
			
		

> gyani ji! i humbly ask please state the reasons for ur statement too?


Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki afteh.
Veer Ji etinder ji,

Here too although no maryada/religious injunction explicitly bans shoes per se, SIKHS follow the social traditions of removing the shoes when entering some one's house and the parkash Asthan/Darbar sahib is GURU JI's House as normally accepted. It is of the utmost importance  that the place be completely clean and hygenic as everyone normally sits on the floor and the place is carpeted and air conditioned...This concept is completley alien to the westerners....but then westerners even go to bed wearing shoes.. So basically it is just a tradition that we all follow and as such a time when the majority decides it can be dispensed with we can all go along with that.

Here may i also state categorically that Sikhi and Gurmatt places NO MERIT whatsoever on the NANGE PAIREEN ( Barefooted) pilgrimage/procession/penance/climbing steps of mandirs on bended knees bleeding all over the steps... etc etc that Hindus sometimes do to the mandir etc to show reverence/penance etc. Following this we have the story of mata ganga Ji, the wife of Guru Arjun Sahib jee shown going to Baba Budha Ji, BARE FOOTED to ask blessing of a Son. ( Apart from this story being a Fairytale as the theme of the story is blatantly Anti-Gurmatt and against the GURBANI of GURU ARJUN JI..but that is another story alltogehter and too long to repeat here). Since going barefoot is not of any merit there is no reason for mata ganga ji to go barefoot anywhere.

jarnail singh


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## etinder (Nov 22, 2004)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
			
		

> Here too although no maryada/religious injunction explicitly bans shoes per se, SIKHS follow the social traditions of removing the shoes when entering some one's house and the parkash Asthan/Darbar sahib is GURU JI's House as normally accepted. It is of the utmost importance that the place be completely clean and hygenic as everyone normally sits on the floor and the place is carpeted and air conditioned...This concept is completley alien to the westerners....but then westerners even go to bed wearing shoes.. So basically it is just a tradition that we all follow and as such a time when the majority decides it can be dispensed with we can all go along with that.
> 
> jarnail singh


gyani jii humbly ask forgiveness again , i m lil confused, above here u said that we shudnt wear shoes becoz of tradition..i have few questions here

shud we consider guru's place only where there is asthaan or parkaash of guru granth sahibji or the whole gurudwara, if we go as per tradition dont we leave shoes at dehleej or just after entering?
why we can go to langar with shoes on, but not at darbaar sahib,where gurugarnths parkash is there?
on one hand u r saying thts its eastern or asian tradition for nange paireen not western and they sleep n go to bed with shoes on, so why r we following their tradition of sitting on chairsn tables at langar, isnt it picking n choosing as per convenience that we choose to follow their tradition in langar but not the tradition of service of mass sitting on chairs n tables with shoes on at darbaar sahib?
please explain, i m so much confused  
bhul chuk di khimaa mangde hoye

guru fateh


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## Tejwant Singh (Nov 22, 2004)

Sikhism, Hinduism, Budhism ~~~> Worshippers sit on the floor.

Islam- A semitic religion ~~~> Worshippers sit on the floor.

Chrisanity, Judaism -Semitic religions like Islam  ~~~> Worshippers sit higher on some furniture.

Does anyone know how it all started and why? And Why is it considered disrespectful having chairs in the langar room or in the main hall?

Input from all will be appreciated.

Tejwant


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## drkhalsa (Nov 23, 2004)

> on one hand u r saying thts its eastern or asian tradition for nange paireen not western and they sleep n go to bed with shoes on, so why r we following their tradition of sitting on chairsn tables at langar, isnt it picking n choosing as per convenience that we choose to follow their tradition in langar but not the tradition of service of mass sitting on chairs n tables with shoes on at darbaar sahib?


 

Very nice point raised what i think is yes you are right that NRI sikhs are choosing are according to convenience but at the same time take care it may not hurt anyone or violate grmat and I think it is only way to evolve as per your needs( personally I dont think there is any need to evolve in these things and I would prefer it as it was in gurujis time  )

What I think is any body following or tying to follow any religion try to do  it two ways
1) keep his lifestyle as a basic thing and look for where the religion fit in
2)keep his religion the basic thing and look for where your lifestyle fit in 

When you keep following your religion as a basic thing in your life I dont think there would any question or dilemma about such things 
I would also like to mention that it is very personal kind of thing and every individual should think and decide it for himself and not a thing to be follwed by looking at others or be imposed on others 

So gurudwara is place where we all meet to share our goodness and clean our mind and every kind of people are welcome there so it all depend on kind of people visting there if they think it is more convinient to take langar on chairs then chairs should be there .
Similarly other kind of problem like this should be agreed on collectively by the sangat visting the gurudwara   

BUL CHUK MAF


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## CaramelChocolate (Nov 24, 2004)

etinder said:
			
		

> western and they sleep n go to bed with shoes on


NO WE DONT!!!!!!!!!!!


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## etinder (Nov 24, 2004)

dear john

i know westerners don't but here gyaniji was trying to make a distinction between eastern n western cultural norms abt the importance n relevance of removing shoes in both cultures.


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## japjisahib04 (Feb 5, 2005)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
			
		

> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki fateh.
> 
> 
> The problem arose because some people have TWISTED the meaning of PANGAT to mean "sitting on the floor".  Pangat actually means IN A LINE, or ROW or Column.  LOOK in any dictionary, kosh and you will see that not in a single place is PANGAT defined as "sitting on the floor". I have all the latest and olde dictionaries of Punjabi-English, even the ones on the internet on line, and most importantly even the MAHAN KOSH of Kahn Singh Nabha gives the meaning of PANGAT as LINE ( ktar).
> ...


 Respected Gianiji
With due respect, let me remind you that concept of langar is not limited to sharing  FOOD so that NO ONE feels left out/neglected/slighted/in any way whatsoever. It is much more than that. For me when I am sitting in a panghat and stretch my hand  for drop of chapati, this is what is humility. Will you get that feeling while sitting on chairs. It is nothing more than buffet. In addition the unparallel beauty of this unique langer which no other faith till today has been able to match is chances are you will find a millionaire, your well-to-do neighbor, sitting next to peon or the taxi-wallah, both engaged in a gastronomic feast, suddenly equated by that basic human urge, hunger. It is an integral part of our heritage and still very much alive. It is another little “feather in our cap” that makes us unique! It is symbol of humility and equaility.
Same people who talk of heritage for replacing our old Gurudwara into marbles, do not remember that talking of bringing chairs and table is as much against our heritage.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 6, 2005)

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.

Even the Takhat jathedars who "justified" the langaar on floor could only rely on PARAMPRAA - "tradition"..because there is nothing in Gurbani that says "equality" can only be achieved by sitting on the floor. IN GURU Ji's time everything was done on the floor - schools were on the floor, panchaytas had meetings on the floor...  ( recently we had some news feeds on Punjab Panchayat elections and a video showed the various candidates sitting under trees on the ground filling up their FORMS...!

I always maintain that the PANGAT refers to ORDER and DISCIPLINE. Tables and Chairs of the SAME TYPE....where the King and the pauper sit side by side at the SAME table and on the SAME BENCH...are as EQUAL as if they were sitting on a Tappar/Mat on the Floor. And ones hand can be stretched for a roti while sitting at  a table as well as siting on a mat..i cant see how this affects anything. In the lovcal Gurdwara we sit at tables on benches, and when the sewadaar passes by we stretch our hand for the Rotis...just as those sitting on mats do....unless it is implied that there is "more humility" in making the sewadaar drop the roti from as high as possible !! ( i dont think this was the intention)
Philosophically speaking the entire Planet is Guru's Abode as He is everywhere..but it is asking a bit too much to leave our shoes at the Gurdwara Gates...and treat the entire Complex as "Parkash asthaan"...the Car parks, the toilets, the Gardens, the corridors etc are NOT "Parkash asthaan" and so shoes can be worn ...as usual the Sikh Rehat maryada is very CLEAR on thsi point..NO BHARAMS/SHANKAs are allowed...even if Doing Ardass outside, or Carrying the Guru garanth Ji...and the Place is Muddy/dirty etc..SHOES MUST be WORN...and it is not advised to make the feet DIRTY under the false impression that GURU JI must always be carried by NANGEH PEREE..barefooted/ or ardass must be bay BAREFOOTED persons only.  Our religion, our Guru ji, our GURBANI is very PRACTICAL and no bharams shankas superstitions etc allowed where commonsense says otherwise. Dont for a moment be under the impression that GURU JI will be "very happy" that you stepped on a dog poo while carrying HIM barefooted and now are sitting in the Car smelling of dog poo.....or that your feet are full of mud when you stepped into a puddle of dirty water...HOW are you going to WASH your feet while GURU JI is on your HEAD ?? what happesn if you slip and fall while struggling to wash your feet of caked mud ?? we have to be sensible..the Rehat maryada says so.

In the parkash Asthaan also the GURU is the One that is HOLY..NOT the Place. We keep the shoes off and feet washed because everyone is sitting on the floor, there are carpets, and it would be bringing in dirt if we wear shoes.  Jithe jaye baheh mera satguur so than suhavah ..is NOT referrign to a Physical place...IT is referring to GURU ji's PRESENCE. SO when GURU JI is PRESENT in a former STADIUM... the Guru Ji's PRESENCE makes the thaan suhava..after GURU JI leaves the Stadium reverts back to stadium ( even though Guru Ji was THERE a few minutes earlier )...and NO ONE is OBLIGED to enter the stadium barefooted any more.  Naggar kirtans take place along public roads...are we to walk those streets barefooted for ever ??  Such Bharams dont exist in Gurmatt.

This is a modern world..we can PICK and CHOOSE...from Western Tradition/eastern Tradition/Muslim tradition/Jewish tradition/chinese tradition whatever...IF it is GOOD and and doesnt go against GURMATT we can adopt ..personally I am all for the Disciplined and orderly way the Muslims sit in the Mosques...all in neat rows... whereas we sikhs sit all over the place..and Muslims have no parshaad to distribute !! which is very difficult to do in a place where everyoen is sittting all ways...and the devotion muslims show in attending mosque ( with no langgar to look forward to)..while many sikhs just go for langgar only !! IF langgar is stopped ....attendances will drop significantly.

Thats all.  Please take what is per Gurmatt and discard what is MY own Manmatt.  NO offense . Malice meant towards anyone...  Love for all.


Jarnail Singh


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## japjisahib04 (Feb 6, 2005)

Respected Gianiji

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa,
Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Thanks for taking time. I fully understand your view point. Please note langar is an extension of Karah Prashad. It is not a picnic or buffet lunch or breakfast. it is to be accepted with same humility as we accept Karah Prashad while sitting. It is not served in the street like 'chhhabeel' but is served in the vicinity of Gurdwara.  I agree entire  Planet is Guru's Abode as He is everywhere, but to accept His blessing or to accept the Prashsd one alway bow down. I agree we can PICK and CHOOSE...from Western Tradition/eastern Tradition/Muslim tradition/Jewish tradition/chinese tradition whatever. But please note when it comes to our heritage, our very strength, our pride, can we compromise. Har-Mandir Sahib (Golden Darbar Sahib), Amristar, is the Sanctum Sanctorum  of the Sikhs, built below the level of the city as a mark of humility in complete contrast to churches, mandirs, masjids, etc, where one walks up the stairs. This is an expression of the Eternal Truth, that for wisdom, one needs humility. And acceprting the Karah Prasad or Langar is accepting His gifts bestowed upon us.
Regards sahni Mohinder


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 6, 2005)

Piarae veer Sahni Mohinder Ji,

waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki fateh.

Total agreement with you on the view that Guru ka Langgar is NOT a roadside Dhabba/chabeel etc..It is Guru's Blessing. 
In Guru Ji's time it was Langgar FIRST and then SANGAT ( Pehle Pangat pechheh SANGAT)....Guur Ji wanted everyone to ACCEPT the Pangat discipline of Equality/castelessness/rich poor differences erased.... as well as have a full stomach...so that FULL ATTENTION could then be paid to SHABAD VICHAAR in SANGAT. Guru Ji understood that BHOOKHEH BHGATEE NA HOI..but now all over the world Gurdwaras have changed this system to SANGAT firsd and then LANGGAR..in Guur Ji's time one COULD NOT have darshan of Guru Ji WITHOUT langgar....NOW most Siksh come ONLY for Langgar..Guru ji's Darshan is secondary and just as  part of "obligation" so as not to "feel guilty" for eating free langgar !!..or they feel "obligated" to do some sewa like washing dishes etc in return for Langgar. These are ALL WRONG bharams that have crept in.

Since Langgar was BEFORE Guru's Ji's DARSHAN... it couldnt be an "extension" of Karah parshaad as this is normally given at end of SANGAT-SHABAD-VICHAAR....while langgar was consumed even before having met the GUru. Now most people "balk" at the idea of receiving "karah Parshaad" and always insist on the "tiny" helping as they mistakenly beleive this causes heart disease/blood pressure/diabetes...and even the TINY helping is just taken to "oblige"...and NOt as a GURU BLESSINGS !!!  How times have CHANGED !!!

Thanks for sharing your valuable views. Much appreciated. I also read your comments on Other Forums. Keep this up.

Jarnail Singh


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## japjisahib04 (Feb 7, 2005)

Respected Gianiiji

It is good to share with you my views. I feel it is a contemplation. It is a bhakti. I am in total agreement with you that concept is being changed. But it does not mean we get strayed. See the level of corruption entered  into judiciary, police, politics, but it does not mean we stop living or we change our guru. It is truth which remains.

Gianiji, with due respect please note BHOOKHEH BHGATEE NA HOI is written in the background of Kirat karna and then Naam Japna. Guru Nanak rejects renunciation of family life. Its religion is the religion of workers and householders. A Sikh is not to be a hermit living in the cities. Gurbani tells us, “One who works for what he eats, and gives some of what he has- O Nanak, he only knows the Path.”-  Guru Granth ang.1245.19.    Thus he advocate social life, married, ran modikhanna and naam japna and share his earning with others. We must do our own efforts to earn our livelihood for honorable living and not beg with a bowl in hand  There is no trade-in, in Guru Nanak’s house. Unlike Islam where hourie, somras or palaces studded with perals and diamondsiis offered in the heaven Guru Nanak said I have nothing but Naam. The concept of langar is spiritual and not invite devotees with bribing  food. It is prepared with the donation of saadh sanghat so it has to be accepted with humility and not enjoyed as picnic.

I hope I am very clear  but will welcome any suggestion or comments.

Regards Sahni Mohinder


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 7, 2005)

japjisahib04 said:
			
		

> Respected Gianiiji
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yes veer ji quite clear. thanks. agree completely on the kirt karna wand chhakna principle of Guru nanak Ji. Wonder why all the modern day SANTS/BABAS are all "Brahmcharis"...and do no work. There is historical proof that ALL the Sikh Gurus worked for a living and didnt live off the free golak/charrawa..and they all ( exception is child guru Harkrishen Ji) got married, had many children and lived as householders. None of the SANTS/BABAS have any families as they beleive mistakenly that brahmcharee is good and family interfers in their bhagtee.

Thank you once more for a good read.

Jarnail Singh.


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## punjabi004 (Aug 15, 2005)

japjisahib04 said:
			
		

> Respected Gianiji
> With due respect, let me remind you that concept of langar is not limited to sharing FOOD so that NO ONE feels left out/neglected/slighted/in any way whatsoever. It is much more than that. For me when I am sitting in a panghat and stretch my hand for drop of chapati, this is what is humility. Will you get that feeling while sitting on chairs. It is nothing more than buffet. In addition the unparallel beauty of this unique langer which no other faith till today has been able to match is chances are you will find a millionaire, your well-to-do neighbor, sitting next to peon or the taxi-wallah, both engaged in a gastronomic feast, suddenly equated by that basic human urge, hunger. It is an integral part of our heritage and still very much alive. It is another little “feather in our cap” that makes us unique! It is symbol of humility and equaility.
> Same people who talk of heritage for replacing our old Gurdwara into marbles, do not remember that talking of bringing chairs and table is as much against our heritage.


 
Can I add that after all these years people acually thought that they should sit on the floor, why can't there just be one gurdwara with half tables and half chairs if you wanna sit one the ground so be it or vice versa but why do we spend billions of dollors and make more gurdwaras for the people that sit on the ground and instead of one sikh race were making 2 sikh races why?? There is very limited of us sikhs so lets stay together. To be a true sikh you don't show it by waring long Cholas and huge turbans its whats inside that counts what those people are doing is pollitical.


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## max314 (May 28, 2006)

People so often focus on the mundane without any logical thought that they often become unable to see the forest for the trees.

"Chairs or floors?  Chairs or floors?"

Guru Gobind Singh would have a right laugh at this.  No wonder he had to make the Five K's.  These are the kinds of people he's had to try and turn into free, noble human beings.


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## Lionchild (May 30, 2006)

well we do it because we don't want escalation.. next peopel will want to have seperate sections of a langer room for different "casts" will we just dismiss that, we need to draw a line somewhere...


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## punjabi004 (May 30, 2006)

max314 said:
			
		

> Guru Gobind Singh would have a right laugh at this. No wonder he had to make the Five K's. These are the kinds of people he's had to try and turn into free, noble human beings.


 
I agree with you man the Guru is probally laughing at this. Saying what the hell are my singhs doing.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (May 31, 2006)

Imho...Guru Ji is not laughing..He is probably shedding tears of grief at our state..He spent 250 YEARS and ten lifetimes Dragging us out of the Deep PIT of Superstition, Bharams, idle talk and no action etc...and we have FALLEN back in..in just 75 years..and DIGGING DEEPER by the DAY....Can anyone Imagine what will be our state in 2000 years as in Christianity's age ?? or 2500 years as in Buddhism's age ??

Gyani jarnail Singh


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## punjabi004 (May 31, 2006)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
			
		

> Imho...Guru Ji is not laughing..He is probably shedding tears of grief at our state..He spent 250 YEARS and ten lifetimes Dragging us out of the Deep PIT of Superstition, Bharams, idle talk and no action etc...and we have FALLEN back in..in just 75 years..and DIGGING DEEPER by the DAY....Can anyone Imagine what will be our state in 2000 years as in Christianity's age ?? or 2500 years as in Buddhism's age ??
> 
> Gyani jarnail Singh


 
You are very right Giani Ji where there were 1 huge sikh religion seams like now there are 2 and where we all laughed and cried together now we are making each other cry. Why Why Whhhhhyyyy.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Jun 1, 2006)

Gurfateh


			
				Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
			
		

> yes veer ji quite clear. thanks. agree completely on the kirt karna wand chhakna principle of Guru nanak Ji. Wonder why all the modern day SANTS/BABAS are all "Brahmcharis"...and do no work. There is historical proof that ALL the Sikh Gurus worked for a living and didnt live off the free golak/charrawa..and they all ( exception is child guru Harkrishen Ji) got married, had many children and lived as householders. None of the SANTS/BABAS have any families as they beleive mistakenly that brahmcharee is good and family interfers in their bhagtee.
> 
> Thank you once more for a good read.
> 
> Jarnail Singh.


 
Respected Gyani Sahib Ji,

not all fingeres are equal.

das knows that there are many Sants in Nirmalas who actully work in field attched to thier Dera and sell say flowers and then eat food from that money.

for then Puja Ka Dhan or wealth of offering to be used for personal purpose is like poision.As it cheating with Sangat.

Likewise they may have cows or other priamry mode of productions.And offering are not used for personal purposes.

Then we have other simlar exapmles in non Nirmalas like Gobindsadan.org.

And in the case of Seva Panthis (sevapanthi.org) they have tradtion of making and selling the ink for the livlyhood.

Then if someones says that we must provide proof from neutral source then spgc is not neutral,Say can we deem Moghuls as neutral for the Hindu sikhs conflicts at the time of Guru.

So proof for Sikhs needs to be best from Sikh source and same can be said for orders above.

Main prolbme comes that often our missioanriers are also paid from the mony offered in offering to Gurudwaras.Even if they spend thier time inpreaching,they must do some other work to earn,then being just one the payrole of the management.

Reasom for das writing so is that if they are finalicaly indepenadant they they will be bold enough to point out anti panthic politcal rivliaries in Gurudwaras,which are biggest problems in preaching.

Coming to Baba's or fake Sant's in Panth,we can judge by simeple fact as you told that if Sant is true then he/She(das hope that we may have feamle Sant(nis) like in Hindus) must not utlise the fund of offering for personal use.

Das himself is realy fed up by wrong interpetaion of Gurbani as well as wrong way of life by fake Sants/Babas and they out number perhaps the good Sants or Mahapurushs.


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## max314 (Jun 1, 2006)

Lionchild said:
			
		

> well we do it because we don't want escalation.. next peopel will want to have seperate sections of a langer room for different "casts" will we just dismiss that, we need to draw a line somewhere...



No, I think that already happened with the creation of 'Ram Garhia Gurudwaras' :}{}{}:

I think to say that planting yer tooshie on a chair - like where it is right now - will lead to caste seperations in langar halls is a fair bit of a stretch.  No-one's getting divided.  We're all sitting on the same level...it's just six inches higher than before and a lot easier on the back and legs...

...damn, I've still got that _daal_ stain on my sock from last Sunday :}{}{}:



			
				punjabi004 said:
			
		

> I agree with you man the Guru is probally laughing at this. Saying what the hell are my singhs doing.



No matter how far an {censored} travels, it'll never come back a horse :{-

OMG

:shutup:


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## punjabi004 (Jun 1, 2006)

max314 said:
			
		

> No, I think that already happened with the creation of 'Ram Garhia Gurudwaras' :}{}{}:
> 
> I think to say that planting yer tooshie on a chair - like where it is right now - will lead to caste seperations in langar halls is a fair bit of a stretch. No-one's getting divided. We're all sitting on the same level...it's just six inches higher than before and a lot easier on the back and legs...
> 
> ...


 
This guys speaks the truth I agree with you 100%.

I also still can't get the sag stain out on my cream color pants  thats what happens when you sit on the floor I guess


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## max314 (Jun 1, 2006)

punjabi004 said:
			
		

> This guys speaks the truth I agree with you 100%.
> 
> I also still can't get the sag stain out on my cream color pants  thats what happens when you sit on the floor I guess



Man...you should feel the knot in your stomach when some pint-sized kid is running full pelt down the isle with a frighteningly precarious-looking glass of water in its hands... :}{}{}:


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## punjabi004 (Jun 1, 2006)

I hear ya man he trips and you just did your shnan in the gurdwara


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## max314 (Jun 2, 2006)

Heh...I can just see Guru Gobind Singh looking down on us now: "sit on the damn chairs, you fruitcakes!" :}{}{}:


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## BhagatSingh (Jul 16, 2006)

i totally agree with amarpal but when my english asked the class this question (we were discussing sumthing) i thought i maybe wrong to say what amarpal has said


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## Randip Singh (Jul 19, 2006)

Amarpal said:
			
		

> Dear etinder Jee,
> 
> The institution of Langar was created by Guru Sahib to erase the feeling of caste that was imprinted into the mind of people if India due to historical reasons. The concept of equality is forged into the mind of Sangat by eating together in langar. This concept alone should not be violated.
> 
> ...


 
I agree 100%..................


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## BaljeetSingh (Jul 22, 2006)

Mytwo cents....Sitting on floor to have langar has some meaning....The more down to earth you are....the more humble you are.....The most humble people are those who sit on floor and eat. 

"neeva" - literally means the low, the humble. So, be humble, be neeva, and have langar while sitting on the floor.

to those who go to gurudwara to just have a desi meal....frankly speaking....i don't give damn on the stains on their socks, cream pants, or whatever. These are the people, who arrive just before the ardaas, eat langar, and then crib about the pai in the back or legs and stains on their cream pants, or socks.....and use thw word damn in the same sentence with the langar meal they gulped down. I am highly disappointed with those people.


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## Randip Singh (Jul 24, 2006)

BaljeetSingh said:
			
		

> Mytwo cents....Sitting on floor to have langar has some meaning....The more down to earth you are....the more humble you are.....The most humble people are those who sit on floor and eat.
> 
> "neeva" - literally means the low, the humble. So, be humble, be neeva, and have langar while sitting on the floor.
> 
> to those who go to gurudwara to just have a desi meal....frankly speaking....i don't give damn on the stains on their socks, cream pants, or whatever. These are the people, who arrive just before the ardaas, eat langar, and then crib about the pai in the back or legs and stains on their cream pants, or socks.....and use thw word damn in the same sentence with the langar meal they gulped down. I am highly disappointed with those people.


 
I understand this neema argument, but the entire philosophy behind langar is about everyone sitting at the same level. Now whether that is chairs or floor it makes no difference whatsoever.

So you could in a sense, say when everyone is sat on a chair everyone is neema because they are at the same level.

I think the entire table chair debate is a backward step and stops Sikhs from dealing with real issues and challenges.


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## BaljeetSingh (Jul 24, 2006)

> but the entire philosophy behind langar is about everyone sitting at the same level. Now whether that is chairs or floor it makes no difference whatsoever


 
Can you please refer me to any where in the code of conduct (rehat maryada) or any other resource to support this philosophy? Or is it just your own personal theory?

I agree with you about the usefulness of this debate....It is waste of time and energy of Sikh youth.


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## Randip Singh (Aug 2, 2006)

BaljeetSingh said:
			
		

> Can you please refer me to any where in the code of conduct (rehat maryada) or any other resource to support this philosophy? Or is it just your own personal theory?
> 
> I agree with you about the usefulness of this debate....It is waste of time and energy of Sikh youth.


 
Is not the entire basis of langar to promote equality? If it is not then I have been following the wrong religion all these years.

By level I mean no one is higher or lower in the physical or the status sense....so no its not my philosophy but a basic tenet I have been brought up with as a Sikh. The footnote I use sums this up very clearly for me. Thats all the proof I need.

Sitting on the floor or on a chair has never been an issue.


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## dalsingh (Aug 6, 2006)

Randip, 

I think your alluding to an important point. Symbolically putting all people on the same level (i.e. floor) when eating langar needs to supplemented with viewing all Sikh brothers and sisters as equals in our everyday life.


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## hps62 (Aug 6, 2006)

_


			
				dalsingh said:
			
		


			Randip,
		
Click to expand...

_


			
				dalsingh said:
			
		

> _I think your alluding to an important point. Symbolically putting all people on the same level (i.e. floor) when eating langar needs to supplemented with viewing all Sikh brothers and sisters as equals in our everyday life._





I* feel the whole world shouuld be viewed as our brother and sister.*

*what  do you say to that .*

*"Nanak Nam chadi kala Tere bana sarbat tha bhalla"*

love

hps62


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## dalsingh (Aug 6, 2006)

hps62 said:
			
		

> I* feel the whole world shouuld be viewed as our brother and sister.*
> 
> *what do you say to that .*
> 
> ...


 
You make an important point, but what about people who wish you harm. Or try and destroy you - individually or the society you belong too?

It's not like it hasn't happened to Sikhs (some will argue that it still is happening). 

Sarbhat da bhalla is important as is survival, which is a basic right that our Gurus taught us. 

Put simply some of us are Sikhs, we have well wishers as well as those that have malignant attitudes towards us. Although compassion to an enemy is promoted in Sikhi (Bhai Kanyaia), so is the destruction of tyrants. I couldn't call a tyranical type my brother or sister personally.


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## Sinister (Aug 9, 2006)

I like tables over the ground because:

u spill less food on urself while eating .... I know everyones has done this while eating ont the floor (LOL) 

I have had some kid (running a 100 meter sprint across the langar floor) stomp on my plate while i was eating (things got real messy that day). 

almost everyday someone accidently knocks down a glass of water with their feet.. then attempts to clean it with a single tissue paper....soon to notice that its absorbant properties have diminished....they everntually spread the water over a larger area instead of cleaning it properly!..... decreasing the level of safety for others (someone might slip) 

Its easier to clean the tables rather than the floor

Its more ergonomical to sit at a table, especially for the elderly.

The stainless steel plates sliding around on ceramic floors is not the most pleasant of sounds

its easier to get off the chair with a full stomach

from an ideological perspective??? I have no idea... and i frankly dont care for ritual... sooo ... GO TABLES.... Long live liberal thought, change, effeciency and practacality.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 10, 2006)

Dear Etinder ji,
Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguur ji ki fateh.

1. In Darbar sahib Parkash Asthan....we all normally sit on the floor, which is usually carpeted or darrian, chadran etc. People coming from outside with their shoes..wouldnt be clean.
2. In India/Punjab whjere the Langgar hall also everyone is seated on the floor....shoes shoudlnt be used..whereas as in Malysia Singapore or elsewhere Langgar halls use Tables and Chairs....shoes dont pose a problem..although personally i would leave mine outside..and hope everyone else also does likewise..but  its not MARYADA..and certainly not an ocassion by soemone to shove/push/fight/slice soemoens head over this...has happened many times when overzealous langgar sevadaars meet equally obstinate shoe wearers !! Maryada/Gurbani doesnt support either side.

3. The best thing about the PURATAN...argument the Jathedars etc put in....is that the MOST PURATAN thing on this earth is STUPIDITY....a FOOL was born in Puratan times and also today. Not everything "puratan" is GOLD as they say. so if we follow this puratan argument and say thta this "thing" is puratan..and so should be followed...?? i say ??? nothing doing...prove your point thru gurbani/sikh ithishas/maryada.

4. Western and Esatern norms..are there...for us to follow..no need to be either 110% esatern ONLY or 120% western Only.... Follow either one at our conveneiece...otherwise I would be writing in GURMUKHI of the Gurbani type...becasue that is how the Gurus bhagtas wrote their messages ( not so even imply 0.000001% that my message is anywhere near that of Gurbani..heaven forbid the thought !!..its just an ecxample of how i have adopted western medium....) I am no Mormon or Quaker type to say NO to electriicty.tv/computers/cars etc etc...i dont give a ** whether this is all western or not....

5. If you knew westrns dont wear shoes to bed..why the statement... heck EVEN SOCKS are not allowed near Guru Garnth Jis parkash..as socks can be pretty "smelly" in somecases...now it is WESTERN to wear socks/shoes...easterns always wore chappals...mostly..shoes/socks are a western norm..so early days nothign to say about socks as nobody wore them..BUT now everybody wears them....due to western acceptance ?? i wear pants..and some say NO pants near SGGS....why ?? becasue pants are worn from the hosue and bottom may be dirty..I say NO..i stepped into my car at my doorstep..and stepped out nearest to Darbar sahib...so how can my pants be dirty ??..i can clearly see my pants are much cleaner than the granthis pajama....which he wears off an on..until he gets the time to wash it..maybe once a week ??..but NO to a Eastern Granthi/his sewaks..his pajam is cleaner even after one week..BECAUSE it is PAJAMA..and not pants ??? funny logic...i dont buy such.

Thank you for rasing so many excellent points..we are all "LEARNERS"...( Gyani doesnt mean zilch  as far as SIKHI is concerned..  SIKH means LEARNER..and i am THAT until i die..)

JSGyani


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## vijaydeep Singh (Aug 10, 2006)

Gurfateh

Das did read in forum that pants or Payjam need not has to be worn.As when we sit on Tabya dirt from ground comes to Darbar Sahib.

Das was surprised that was there not Akal which is in Darbar Sahib also in dirt?


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## spnadmin (Nov 5, 2013)

another gupt said:


> sitting cross legged on the floor is actually very good for your digestive system and you actually eat less. I have tried this , paying attention to chewing my food slowly (at least 30 chews per mouthful) before swallowing. I find that I eat less and feel fuller on half the amount of food.
> 
> 
> Also sitting cross legged actually affects some of the body's meridians which relate to the mind - sitting this way takes us out of the thinking mind (which thinks it needs a large meal to survive) and into our bodys intuition which informs us which and how much food our body actually needs.
> ...



I believe we should clarify these are your opinions and experiences, another_gupt ji. These are not scientifically proved nor are they true from a gurmat point of view.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Nov 5, 2013)

spnadmin said:


> I believe we should clarify these are your opinions and experiences, another_gupt ji. These are not scientifically proved nor are they true from a gurmat point of view.




SEEMS commonsense TO ME... sitting cross legged on the floor brings the stomach UP and tight..sort of BUNCHED UP...while seated on a chair it hangs free like a sack..common sense that a HANGING SACK is easier to overfill..

I too CANNOT eat more  seated on floor cross legged....than when i can eat on a chair !! The Stomach bulges UP in front of the plate on the floor..its a drag to bend over and take up the food !!! So YES i do eat LESS when seated on floor than when on a chair...


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## spnadmin (Nov 5, 2013)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> SEEMS commonsense TO ME... sitting cross legged on the floor brings the stomach UP and tight..sort of BUNCHED UP...while seated on a chair it hangs free like a sack..common sense that a HANGING SACK is easier to overfill..
> 
> I too CANNOT eat more  seated on floor cross legged....than when i can eat on a chair !! The Stomach bulges UP in front of the plate on the floor..its a drag to bend over and take up the food !!! So YES i do eat LESS when seated on floor than when on a chair...



How about your meridians? Do they clear up your thinking mind - that ugly thinking mind - if you sit at langar cross-legged on the floor?


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## jaikar singh sohal (Apr 10, 2017)

Please read Rehatnama by Bhai Desa Singh ji ( son of Bhai Mani Singh Ji) who has documented the code of conduct as explained by Guru Gobind singh ji. It clearly mentions that langar should be eaten on ground.Pls check the attached.


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## nav_man (Sep 5, 2020)

jaikar singh sohal said:


> Please read Rehatnama by Bhai Desa Singh ji ( son of Bhai Mani Singh Ji) who has documented the code of conduct as explained by Guru Gobind singh ji. It clearly mentions that langar should be eaten on ground.Pls check the attached.



Hey, can you translate the key points in this document, as I cannot read punjabi.


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## nav_man (Sep 5, 2020)

Do you think that the inclusion of chairs and tables make Gurdwaras more accessible and hence can increase Gurdwara attendance?


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## Sonyasanam (Jan 5, 2021)

Hello, everyone I am new to this forum, I have read this thread....and would like to share my personal opinion.
I am a Sikh born and raised outside of India, from the time I was born, I only knew the gurdwara to have tables and chairs in the langar halls, these has been from day 1, this gurdwara is 60/70 years old and so is with all the othet gurdwaras with  in this country now after all these years someone wakes up & comes and say this is not in the maryada, come on .....in the old era, villages homes were made of straw and mud we don't follow that now  dowe..... we live in developed countries, this is nonsensical, now when one can have fans and air-conditioned darbar sahib the old era did not have this. Then we have to go to the moon using horses, instead of rockets.


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## Logical Sikh (Jan 8, 2021)

No, you can't have Langar while sitting on Chair, 
You'll got to hell if you eat langar on chair and defying maryada. 

Wanna go to heaven ? eat langar on the fLoor


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## Truthsikher31 (May 23, 2022)

Reading through the comments here are some points that were shared in response to the post:
1) Its ok for elders because it is hard for them to sit on the floor
2) The practice to sit on the floor is so no individual is above the others (in the literal sense and figuratively)
3) Sitting on the floor makes one more humble as they are closer to the earth.

I like to address these, and share my thoughts.

Its ok for elders - while this is obvious for physical reasons, my thought is while rest of us sit on the floor, we know its not the most comfortable position.  What about those that are not old in age, but physically unable (for example over weight). Is it simply age, or disability, or physical challenges?
Sitting on the floor so all are equal.  I believe this is a great concept.  But if all were to sit on chairs/tables then wouldn't they still be equal?
Being closer to earth makes one more humble - what does distance have to do with anything.  Are you telling me everyone sitting on the floor are humble people, or they don't have thoughts that they are better than others in the langar hall?

One thing that I have observed from my own learning, is that the Guru's were not all perfect.  They did what they did, taught what they taught based on the time they were in.  As time goes on, people evolve, towns/cities evolve, new forms engineering is introduced.  So each new Guru would build on their predecessor.  Each Guru was known for something iconic that they felt should be followed by all.

The idea of Langar as we all know is to provide meal to the sangat, and for anyone else seeking a meal.  Hence why Gurdwaras would have 4 entrances to show you can come from any direction and are welcomed.  But don't you think the sitting on the floor has little more reasons than just so everyone is equal.  Like it was asked in the comments, to avoid someone sitting above the rest, why didn't everyone eat in a sitting up position?

My take is maybe they didn't have enough tables/chairs for all people. Historically in India, how many homes during those times did people have a dining table/chairs at home? Even today, you can go to the poor areas of India and people still eat on the floor.  So maybe it wasn't just to show equality but because of availability.  Lets say they did have tables and chairs, but it wasn't enough for all.  So who would decide who gets the tables, and if all were taken rest had to sit on the floor? Was this how it started, and then later changed so no one would feel lesser than the next person? Or did someone call dibs or placed personal items saving it for other family members to join.  Ok I'm just messing with that last sentence.  But hope it makes sense what I'm saying.

If the Gurus adapted and evolved, shouldn't we also update some Sikh practices.  Is eating on the floor really the best practice.  Lets just for a brief moment ignore the basics behind eating on the floor, and think practically.  He are some things I've experienced and observed in the langar hall in today's Gurdwaras:

1) If you're a tall person serving daal (or any thin liquid dish) it is brutal on ones back trying to pour into an individuals plate (ESPECIALLY IF THEY DON'T PICK IT UP) to bring it closer to you.  So you end slowly pouring it on to their plate while bent over.  Now repeat that for hundreds more.

2) I've seen kids knock over water, step on food, drop food in aisles.  While food spills can be avoided (until cleaned up) sometimes water isnt always seen, and a wet sock is not so nice to walk around in.

3) Kids cant sit still (while sitting in a chair doesn't guarantee they wont leave and run around) it maybe easier for mothers to feed them

4) How many times have you had little drops of daal or subji drop on your clothes.  I'm sure the ladies can relate.  - Wouldn't a table and chair provide a more comfortable eating experience?

5) WATER - again if people don't lift their cups for you, its brutal on the back, and if that cup is sitting the on the floor and you're not careful, that empty cup is going to start dancing around as you pour the water.  And it can either overfill, or completely tip over causing a bigger mess.

6) Chai - Everyone loves a cup of chai after a hearty langar meal, but I've seen people over fill a cup and burn a person sitting and causing them to drop it.  I've even seen chai fall on a persons back.  Some of which could be avoided (not guaranteed) serving on a table

7) This last one I feel its an embarrassing and shameful observation, but same time unavoidable.  We all know that a Gurdwara is not only a place of worship, but a place where people gather to socialize within the community (especially in the US).  And ladies like to wear their prettiest suits and look nice.  But sometimes, some ladies wear suits that can be either low cut or "loose", and end up giving a more visible view of their cleavage area when standing up and looking down on someone sitting on the floor.  Now as adults we have to be mature about this, but there are little kids who serve (be it spoons/napkins) and you have teenage boys serving as well.  That is not something they should be seeing or have thoughts that can be processed at that moment in time.  I could be completely wrong about this last point but I have a feeling I'm not the only one whos observed this.

My whole point in all this is, if the Guru's evolved, why can't we.  Wouldn't tables/chairs just make more sense.  I know its a difficult thought to process or even experience it, especially since we've been doing it since we could crawl.  But if we can improve on this, make it a more comfortable/enjoyable experience wouldn't that be better.

Or is comfort a sin, and discomfort shows your "commitment"


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 6, 2022)

jaikar singh sohal said:


> Please read Rehatnama by Bhai Desa Singh ji ( son of Bhai Mani Singh Ji) who has documented the code of conduct as explained by Guru Gobind singh ji. It clearly mentions that langar should be eaten on ground.Pls check the attached.


most of these Rehatnamas and all are FAKE....misusing names of Sikhs to add authenticity. Dr Padam and Dr Ganda Singh has listed so many Fakes and one way of recognizing a Fake is it will have Contradictory to Gurmat/Gurbani views endorsed as Mandatory. It seems it was  acommon practise to either remain ANONYMOUS (vaar 40 attached to Vaars of Bhai Gurdass)...or write names of famous Sikhs as AUTHORS so as to get authenticity


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 6, 2022)

nav_man said:


> Hey, can you translate the key points in this document, as I cannot read punjabi.


A true Sikh is one who HATES Muslims/Fights till death with MUSLIMS and defends BRAHMINS and COWS.....is just one blatantly racist injunctions penned here...one which belies the CORDIAL RELATIONS GURU GOBIND SINGH JI had with Peer Budhu Shah who sacrificed 2 of his 4 sons in Battle defending Guru Ji....in TODAYS context..a True SIKH will be siding the downtrodden MUSLIMS of INDIA and fighting the Racist fascist rulers in DELHI !!   There are many such lines that show this is  a FAKE Rehatnama and Bhai Mani singhs name is being MISUSED to legitimise it.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 6, 2022)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> A true Sikh is one who HATES Muslims/Fights till death with MUSLIMS and defends BRAHMINS and COWS.....is just one blatantly racist injunctions penned here...one which belies the CORDIAL RELATIONS GURU GOBIND SINGH JI had with Peer Budhu Shah who sacrificed 2 of his 4 sons in Battle defending Guru Ji....in TODAYS context..a True SIKH will be siding the downtrodden MUSLIMS of INDIA and fighting the Racist fascist rulers in DELHI !!   There are many such lines that show this is  a FAKE Rehatnama and Bhai Mani singhs name is being MISUSED to legitimise it.


Read The Hijacking of Sikhi....a 450++ page book by Dr Karminder Singh Dhillon to know more about such Hukmnamas rehatnamas etc


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 6, 2022)

1. in one line he says..dont even go near meat/fish...in another he says Jhatka Mutton is OK !!   2. in one line he says dont take drugs..then says BHaang/Afeem is OK (should be taken DAILY in fact !!) 3. If you die faughting  guaranteed HEAVEN (Gurbani says dying in battle is fate of millions..just a normal result of war) etc etc....Pooja ka dhaan is unfit for consumption (Millions of ragis pathees, etc etc live off pooja ka dhaan )


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