# God's Gender



## Admin (Nov 26, 2009)

Gurbani teaches us: God is gender free. The Guru Granth Sahib refers to       God as both masculine and feminine.   At times, God is referred       to as our father, mother, friend, husband to a soul-bride, etc.  God is unborn and does not die. God belongs to       neither sex.       
       God is one, whose name Is truth, is the creator, without       Fear, without hatred, beyond death or birth,  Self-Existent. Realized       by the Guru's grace.        Guru Nanak, Page 1, Line 1     
       The holy scriptures are true and state God is neither       male nor female.  But nothing is gained by reading if this is not       realized in one's heart.        Page 483, line 7     
       How can anyone describe God? When God is neither male nor female.        Page 685, Line 17     
            A being who realizes God, realizes that the female is in       the male, and the male is in the female.        Page 879, Line 3       
         You Yourself are the male, and You Yourself are the         female.          Page 1020, Line 15         
           Night and day are the two nurses, male and           female; the world plays in this play.            Page 1021, Line 3         

bhaaee pooth pithaa prabh maathaa
	God is my Brother, Son, Father and Mother
Guru Arjan, 	Raag Gauree, 	240 

  maaee jo prabh kae gun  	gaavai || safal 	aaeiaa jeevan  	fal thaa ko paarabreham  	liv laavai  	||1|| rehaao ||
	O mother, how fruitful is the birth of one who sings  	the Glories of God, and enshrines love for the Supreme  	Lord God. ||1||Pause||
Guru Arjan, 	Raag Dayv Gandhaaree, 	531 
  	maaee prabh kae charan nihaaro  	||
	O mother, I long to see the Feet of God.
Guru Arjan, 	Raag Dayv Gandhaaree, 	531 
  	jio raakhai  	mehathaaree baarik ko thaisae  	hee prabh paal ||1|| rehaao ||
	Just as the mother protects her children, God  	nurtures and cares for us. ||1||Pause||
Guru Arjan, 	Raag Dhanaasree, 	680 
  	prabh aap suaamee aapae rakhaa aap pithaa aap maaeiaa  	||
	God Himself is my Lord and Master. He Himself is my  	Saving Grace; He Himself is my father and mother.
Guru Arjan, 	Raag Soohee, 	783 
  	O Nanak, the Lord God is our father and mother. I am  	His child; the Lord cherishes me. ||4||6||18||
Guru Raam Daas, 	Raag Raamkalee, 	882 
  	prabh maath pithaa  	ka(n)t(h) laaeidhaa  	lahurrae baalak  	paal ||
	God is my mother and father; He hugs me close in His  	embrace, and cherishes me, like His tiny baby.
Guru Arjan, 	Raag Raamkalee, 	957 
  	garabh ku(n)ddal  	mehi ouradhh dhhiaanee  	||
	Within the mother's womb, upside-down, the mortal  	meditated on God.
Guru Nanak, 	Raag Maaroo, 	1026 
  	prabh maath pithaa  	apanae dhaas kaa  	rakhavaalaa ||
	God is the Mother, the Father and the Protector of  	His slave.
Guru Arjan, 	Raag Bhairao, 1137 
  	prabh rakhavaalae maaee  	baap ||
	God is my Protector, my Mother and Father.
Guru Arjan, 	Raag Basant, 	1183 
  	bhai maanai  	nirabho maeree  	maae ||4||
	One who abides in the Fear of God, becomes fearless,  	O my mother. ||4||
Guru Nanak, 	Raag Basant, 	1187 
  	naanak baarik  	kashhoo n jaanai  	raakhan ko prabh maaee baap
	Nanak, the child, does not know anything at all. O God,  	please protect me; You are my Mother and Father. 
Guru Arjan, 	Raag Prabhaatee, 	1341 
  	bhagath janaa(n)  	har maa(n) pio baettaa ||aa||
	For bhagats (saints,) God is their mother, father and  	son all in one.
Bhai Gurdaas, 	Vaars Bhai Gurdaas, 	10 ​


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## Randip Singh (Nov 27, 2009)

excellent.

I had a massive debate on this on sikh-history.com on God is genderless. The people that believed God was genderless, like me, were in a minority.


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## spnadmin (Nov 27, 2009)

Randip Singh said:


> excellent.
> 
> I had a massive debate on this on sikh-history.com on God is genderless. The people that believed God was genderless, like me, were in a minority.



I can't believe this!!!!!!!!!! No wonder there are so many cross-over practices in which some Sikhs periodically engage in devotions of Hindu gods. Complete with money and food offerings. Or believe - I hate to say it - that Durga is a manifestation of Waheguru.


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## Astroboy (Nov 28, 2009)

Ang 685 Line 16

ਸੁੰਨ ਮੰਡਲ ਇਕੁ ਜੋਗੀ ਬੈਸੇ  ॥
सुंन मंडल इकु जोगी बैसे ॥
Sunn mandal ik jogī baise.
The Yogi, the Primal Lord, sits within the celestial sphere of deepest Samaadhi.

ਨਾਰਿ ਨ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕੋਊ ਕੈਸੇ  ॥
नारि न पुरखु कहहु कोऊ कैसे ॥
Nār na purakẖ kahhu ko▫ū kaise.
He is not male, and He is not female; how can anyone describe Him?


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## Randip Singh (Nov 29, 2009)

The entire argument focussed on the word Akal Purakh, which they said was masculine.  Can you believe that.


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## AusDesi (Nov 29, 2009)

What does Purakh mean? From what I understand it has the meaning Ancestor. Thats the meaning in Hindi.


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## spnadmin (Nov 29, 2009)

Randip Singh said:


> The entire argument focussed on the word Akal Purakh, which they said was masculine.  Can you believe that.



This has to be the same group that believes that the flash of light from your kara will stop crime on the street.


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## spnadmin (Nov 29, 2009)

AusDesi said:


> What does Purakh mean? From what I understand it has the meaning Ancestor. Thats the meaning in Hindi.



Aus Desit ji

Purakh means the "self which abides within all things created"  It comes from the Sanskirt word _*purusha (purusa)*_ [purush]

The gender of the noun is masculine -- but that does not mean that Akaal Purakh is masculine. Some people. 

Together Akaal Purakh means the Timeless Spirit that Lives Within All Creation


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## AusDesi (Nov 29, 2009)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Aus Desit ji
> 
> Purakh means the "self which abides within all things created"  It comes from the Sanskirt word _*purusha (purusa)*_ [purush]
> 
> ...



I thought Purusha means person?


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## spnadmin (Nov 29, 2009)

AusDesi said:


> I thought Purusha means person?



Are we thinking of modern Sanskrit or classical Sanskrit? Also in Sanskirt a word's meaning is highly contextualized.

Purakh is a variation of purusha (cited: _Dictionary of Guru Granth Sahib_ by Surinder Singh Kohli). One meaning of purusha in the classical is "man" but not referring to a man in particular, but in the generic sense. Other meanings of purusha are: spirit, living principle, and also the self which abides in all of creation.

In the context of mool mantar: In the Sankhya system of Hindu philosophy, _Purusha_ (the Universal Spirit), eternal, indestructible, all pervasive, is without activity or attribute, and if it is left to _Prakriti_ (primal nature), itself an uncaused cause, and an ultimate principle, to bring the phenomenal world into being.


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## spnadmin (Nov 29, 2009)

Aus Desi ji

Coming back to post this one because I forgot earlier. In spoken Sanskrit (not classical) the word for "person" varies with use. Here is the link that I wanted to post for you. I hope it comes up right. 

Sanskrit Dictionary for Spoken Sanskrit

For translators of ancient texts a common dictionary is the Cologne Digital dictionary.  You will see what I mean by contextualized meanings. Scroll  through all the variations and there are some that are used for a person in the mystical sense. 

http://webapps.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche


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## BhagatSingh (Nov 29, 2009)

Well asking about God's gender or giving him one would only be valid if God was a sexual being since gender is used to differentiate between sexual characteristics.

So is God sexual being? 
If no then God's genderless.

If yes, then we are lead to polytheism. What kind of sexual being is God? There must then be at least one other God with different set of sexual characterisitcs.

Genderlessness is a hard concept for humans to comprehend, which may explain why certain religions contains Gods and Godesses.


> I can't believe this!!!!!!!!!! No wonder there are so many cross-over practices in which some Sikhs periodically engage in devotions of Hindu gods. Complete with money and food offerings. Or believe - I hate to say it - that Durga is a manifestation of Waheguru.


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## spnadmin (Nov 29, 2009)

Bhagat ji

There could also be a different explanation. In polytheistic religions some male/female representations are actually idols/images of the incarnations of male and femaile attributes of an ultimate deity who is nirguna but contains all the attributes of creation. The ultimate deity itself being genderless and all genders at the same time. Hence some Hindu traditions conceive of the deity as nirguna but create idols to represent various attributes of the nirgun as incarnated.


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## BhagatSingh (Nov 29, 2009)

> In polytheistic religions some male/female representations are actually idols/images of the incarnations of *male and femaile attributes* of an ultimate deity who is nirguna but contains all the attributes of creation.


Attributes based on gender roles you mean?


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## spnadmin (Nov 29, 2009)

No that is not what I mean. I will try to get some decent resources to explain this concept of male/female attributes. This is not a) my area of expertise nor b) an area where I spend time doing any study. You could also check this out, research it in religious studies areas of the Internet, while waiting for me to post.


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## spnadmin (Nov 29, 2009)

While waiting for me -- you could actually explore the Islamic concept of the feminine aspect of Allah. I have actually posted about this in Interfaith Dialogs - "In search of the golden MA" There are some references in that thread. I had to drop it when I became co-admin here because I no longer have time for personal research.


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## BhagatSingh (Dec 1, 2009)

Thanks Narayanjot Kaur ji for pointing me the right direction.



> On the *highest level, Allah is at once       Absolute and Infinite*. These two attributes are the supreme archetypes of       the masculine and the feminine. *"Masculine" and       "feminine" are not simply equivalents of the human male and       female, since all men and women have elements of both masculinity and       femininity within them*. That Allah is Absolute is the principle of       masculinity, and that Allah is Infinite is the principle of femininity.       Allah has revealed Himself in the Qur’ân in the names of rigor and       mercy, known as the names of Majesty (Jalâl) and Beauty (Jamâl). The       Generous, the Merciful, the Forgiving are names of mercy or Beauty, while       the Enumerator and the Just are names of rigor or Majesty. On the level of       the names are the principles of the masculine and the feminine: the names       of* Majesty are the prototype of masculinity, while the names of Beauty are       the prototype of femininity*.


divine feminine

It's just as I suspected. These what I was referring to as *gender roles* earlier. Latter parts of that writing(the only one I have read so far) dive into feminine adjectives used to describe God:


> One of *Allah's names is       al-Hakîm, the Wise*; Wisdom is hikmah. In Arabic to say, for example,       "Wisdom is precious," you could repeat the feminine pronoun:       al-hikmah hiya thamînah, literally "*Wisdom, she is precious*."



Will come back to this later.


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## spnadmin (Dec 1, 2009)

Bhagat ji


Is this what you mean by gender roles?

Definitions of *Gender roles* on the Web:


A gender role is defined as a set of perceived behavioral norms associated particularly with males or females, in a given social group or system. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_roles
Learned behaviors that condition activities, tasks, and responsibilities viewed within a given society as "masculine" or "feminine."
www.knowledgebank.irri.org/glossary/Glossary/G.htm
the pattern of behavior expected of males and females in a society.
home.comcast.net/~tbrown117735mi/culturevocabulary.html
If so, would please then explain how you connect these definitions to the information that you quoted.


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 1, 2009)

Which gender God created the kitchen?

Just thinking aloud....


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## Sinister (Dec 1, 2009)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Which gender God created the kitchen?
> 
> Just thinking aloud....


 
it most definately would be the woman god because a male god would have been more merciful and put the fridge, television and toilet in closer proximity.


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## BhagatSingh (Dec 2, 2009)

Sinister said:


> it most definately would be the woman god because a male god would have been more merciful and put the fridge, television and toilet in closer proximity.


Nah, Sinister Ji, God has to be man! 

I agree with George Carlin(comedian) here: 


> ...the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize,   something is ****** up.Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction,   hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades.   Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best   God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the   résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of **** you'd   expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and   me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful   *** a long time ago. *And by the way, I say "this guy", because   I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it   has to be a man.*


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## Sinister (Dec 2, 2009)

HA! good'ol CARLIN!!! i miss him. 

God does have a gender and is predominately viewed as a father type figure (authoritative)...maybe not in sikh philosophy but im sure such notions are so widely accepted that it rubs off on sikhs.

plus almost all god's profits and messengers, who were men outweigh the minor role that females played in every religion (aside from being vessels that gave them life...their contributions to much of the philosophies themselves are 'missing'?...or at least not given credit). religion itself, to this day is dominated by men, on the administrative level...including in sikhism.

i can't think of one major religious sect that has a female in a leadership position (as of today) aside from the queen of england and her anglican church?


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## BhagatSingh (Dec 17, 2009)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Bhagat ji
> 
> 
> Is this what you mean by gender roles?
> ...


Yes that's what I mean.

from the writings:


> *Majesty are the prototype of masculinity, while the names of Beauty are       the prototype of femininity*


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## spnadmin (Dec 17, 2009)

Bhagat Singh ji

Thanks and it helps move the conversation forward.


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