# Where To Give The 'Daswand'



## Hardip Singh (Aug 30, 2010)

A very important question to think and to find the right answer from SGGS jee :- Where one should give ones 'Daswand' or the 10% of your true income for the religious causes as given in SGGS je and than in SRM.

Can some of our learned SPNers guide me? Should this hard earned true income be just donated to the Gurdwaras for their upkeep but in actual is  eaten away by the greedy managements or spent on marbles and Gold plattings by the Kar Sewa babas. Should we spend it on educating the community about Sikhism or on education of needy and poor, on community health services.

Any thing from SGGS jee to guide us on these spendings????


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 30, 2010)

Guru Piayario Jios, Hardip Ji,
SGGS guides us.."Aakleen Sahib seveah...akleen keecheh DAAN...
The Basis is Akal..our god bestowed intellect !!
It means that we have a RESPONSIBILITY..a Heavy one to see that what daswandh we take out is USED and NOT MISUSED !! The Gurdwaras and marbles and golden palkis you mentioned is an example of GROSS MISUSE !! Can any Sikh living in say..Delhi justify Golden Bangla Sahib and the THOUSANDS of Sikligar/Vanjara Sikh Children denied a  good education, simple Gurdwaras, Punjabi Schools ?? These GOOD SIKHS are keeping their SIKHI intact despite great ODDS and deserve every sikhs daswandh and MORE..BUT the Sikhs of Delhi would rather have a Golden Bangla Sahib than educate these Sikhs ???
Personally I have nothing against Bangla sahib or delhi sikhs..amrtisar sikhs, sgpc, etc etc sikhs and kar seva babas are all LOOTERS of our DASWANDH..but the responsibility to let them LOOT is OURS and OURS alone. we let them loot us.,
I wish the Sikhs were just as proud of a world class SIKH University as they are of the Golden Domes of Akal Takhat that they DEMOLISHED and replated with sikh gold to spit on Indira gandhis gold via  Boota singh and sarkari chamcha santa singh malaang.
Didnt our GURUS have enough GOLD to build even one small golden dome ?? Show me one that the Gurus built ??..and i will donate my entire income for the next ten years towards another golden domed gurdwara..BUT since there is NONE....I continue to SHUN the Golak/Langgra nd Karah Parshaad/Rumalas etc etc... and give only to EDUCATION....of SIKHS.
Secondly Daswandh is not only CASH..its also TIME. Care, Sympathy, LOVE...all the THINGS that SIKHS LACK !! Hence No sikhs Visit the SICK..take care of the old folks in abandoned old folk homes, orphaned children, pingalwarra types of institutions...we just dont CARE...and continue to THROW OUR MONEY at the greedy commercial kirtaniyahs, bhais, granthis, beggars and vehlarr saadhs babas,golucks and langgars rumallahs etc...in a BHED CHAAL...the blind following the blind...:redturban:


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## BhagatSingh (Aug 30, 2010)

As Gyani ji said and as you seem to agree, daswandh given to Gurudwaras utterly futile. I think if you took the daswandh that you were giving to gurudwaras and instead went out on the streets and found a homeless (who was not obviously mentally ill because they wouldn't be able to manage it) your daswandh would be a successful attempt at inscreasing well being of the community. Thought I don't recommend doing that directly. Instead give the money to a reputable charity.
and this just cannot be said enough so I am going to second it here:


> Secondly Daswandh is not only CASH..its also TIME. Care, Sympathy,  LOVE...all the THINGS that SIKHS LACK !! Hence No sikhs Visit the  SICK..take care of the old folks in abandoned old folk homes, orphaned  children, pingalwarra types of institutions...


You could support Sikhi related animations (Vismaad Productions), Sikhi related  video-games (Sarbloh Warriors died out because not enough donations were  being collected) and Sikhi related art by (Kanwar Singh, Manu Saluja and  myself).
Now supporting such projects (and people) is worth it because you know they are going to produce something tangible. Something the community can cherish. But I think it should be last on the list:
1. Non-Cash Daswandh, lots of charitiable service
2. Cash Daswandh to reputable charities 
3. Supporting Projects that a community can cherish


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 30, 2010)

Bhagat ji,,you have added a huge load of value to my reply...thats a tiny bit of what daswandh actually means...and Sikhi Parchaar of Gur and immediate Post Guru days took off so well becasue sikhs practised real gurmatt style of practical sikhi as per sggs...not the gross show off type now a days...so you had Nihungs constructing roads..instead of slouching around massacring goats for shastar blood tilak..and gaffing huge amounts of drugs bhang etc and treating the goluck as their own bank....sangats constructed wells, sarovars, towns etc....:redturban::blueturban::happysingh:rangesingh:


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## Hardip Singh (Aug 30, 2010)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Sri Guru Granth Sahib guides us.."Aakleen Sahib seveah...akleen keecheh DAAN...


 
Gyanni jee,
Could you please expand this shabad with its meaning or pl post the ang number where I can find this particular shabad.
Regards & Guru Fateh.
Hardip Singh


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## Archived_Member16 (Aug 30, 2010)

ਅਕਲੀ ਪੜ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਕੈ ਬੁਝੀਐ ਅਕਲੀ ਕੀਚੈ ਦਾਨੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਰਾਹੁ ਏਹੁ ਹੋਰਿ ਗਲਾਂ ਸੈਤਾਨੁ ॥੧॥: Aklee parh kai bujheeyai aklee keejai daan. Nanak aakhai raah eho hor gallan saitaan ||1||: One should read (Bani) with intelligence, and then understand its real essence (i.e., assimilate it). Also, one should use intelligence in giving charity. Says Nanak, this is the True Path; other things lead to Satanic life ||1|| (sggs 1245).
 
*Food for thought:* *Sharing Earnings, Wand Ke Chhakna*. Because we are children of the same Father, we should feel pleasure in sharing our earnings with the needy. People who share with the needy do not oblige them or do any favor to them, but are just doing their duty which is expected of them. Sikhs do not give charity or donations to anyone. They share their earnings with them. The only Giver in the world is God. How can we give anything as a donation when we are mere custodians of the gifts given to us by Him? 

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*The Concept of Charity in Sikhism​Dr. Shamsher Singh*​** _Punjabi University,Patiala._
_ 
_Charity is a key precept in every religion of the world. Its practical aspect differs from place to place, religion to religion and country to country. The idea of charity has social, economic and spiritual dimensions. Psychologically the idea of charity appears to have evolved from the deep rooted human instinct of sympathy for fellow beings.

Charity is a gift to which the recipient has no claim and for which he renders no reward in return. Sometimes it is made purely from compassion and desire to remove the human need.

Charity takes new shape during natural calamities, like flood, famine, earthquake, epidemics and wars, etc. In these cases government request the people to donate money and other needful goods. It is an indirect charity through the government though it is sometime imposed as contribution the people for good of the nation. Charity in Sikhism covers the main four basic conditions:
<DIR>l Charity should be based upon honest earnings.
l Charity to for others for not owns.
l It should be given at proper places to proper persons, Guru says: Through wisdom doth charity flows...(p. 1245.)
l Charity for a Sikh _sevadar_:
If a Sikh has to act as priest (Granthi) in a gurdwara, he should take from the offerings (donations to gurdwara) as sufficient for his bare sustenance, under the directions of management. During the times of Masand - system they were given by the Guru from the offerings only for their livelihood.
</DIR>*Altruist Charity:* (_Naam Daan_) It is a new and unique kind of charity specially in Sikhism, introduced by the Sikh Gurus for the ‘life sublime’ of their devotees.
It is a source of life and means of true living. Without acquiring the goodness and virtues charity becomes merely ostentation.
*The Purpose of Charity:* Charity is meant for poor, needy, sick, destitute, victims and pilgrimage travellers. Charity is a principal aspect of religious life, It has importance in religious and social life. Morally to give charity is a self satisfaction or leading a good life. It purifies the heart of the donor. He seeks the blessings of God to give him more for donating to the needy. The act of charity also provides occasion and incentive for other people to take initiative. Charity has many objectives. Here only the main fives are given:
<DIR>1. General benevolence
2. To help the weaker sections
3. Revival of the prestige and honour of the poor and to promote sense of equality.
4. Self purification, and gratification.
5. Divine grace.
</DIR>Many virtues of charity are mentioned in Hinduism:
<DIR>1. From the fear of beggar’s curse.
2. With the hope of getting something in the future life.
3. To follow up the family traditions.
4. For popularity and fame.
5. From gratitude.
6. To be reborn in heaven.
</DIR>*Basic Principles of Charity:* Abundance is gift. According to Sikhism God created the universe and programmed to feed every creature. He is merciful and compassionate. Even in deep waters of the sea, He provides food to the aquaticspecies. To some one He gives more and others less, but gives to all. It does not mean that the creatures sit idle, to do no work. He gives to all without expecting any reward. He is so merciful that he provides the food before the creation of a child.
Guru says:
God arranged the food, before the birth of man (SGGS 130)
Even life created in the stone, its feed is provided by Lord (SGGS 10)

Prosperity is not just the result of some one’s own efforts. It is bestowed upon man as a divine favour. Prosperity of man is also a test from an other angle that the man who has huge money, he gives some charity out of it. God is benevolent to man and others, similarly he expects from the man to be merciful to others. Charity indirectly is an extension of divine mercy. Generosity of God is presented through the charity of man, It is not just an indication of man’s prosperity but it is constant endeavour towards sharing of hardships, and suffering. Thinkers divide charity mainly in two categories: obligatory or voluntary. Obligatory charity is collected from the prosperous, or it may be paid by them to the organisations or to the trustworthy. Whereas voluntary donations depends upon the choice of donor. Ordinarily it is not imposed. Guru Arjun Dev ji, the fifth Guru directed his Sikh followers, through the Masands, to donate one-tenth of their income in the name of God. It is called _Daswandh_.

From the Sikh religious point of view charity is faith and confidence that whatever the man has, it is all the grace and gift of God. Therefore something should be given. If the receivers are not treated in a better way then charity has no meaning. If the donor gives something disrespectfully then the basic spirit of charity is lost. The true sense of charity always encourages the donor to do a good deed, but to do it in grace. Charity should be given sincerely. Charity means to give maximum what ever you can, but with dedication and devotion. Any charity which is given half-heartedly, or under compulsion, losses its true spirit. Sometimes we donate inferior or left out things and food. It is not only an insult to recipient but also tarnishes the image of donor. Such charity is never rewarded. Charity should be given with humility. In ‘hay days’ charity is easy and possible, but real test of donor comes at the time of adversity. While giving charity the needy should be treated in a respectful way and with good grace.

*Best Charity is impersonal/anonymous/undemonstrative:

*Another basic requisition of charity concept is that it should be made without publicity. No doubt sometimes its demonstration persuades others to imitate. In Sikhism it is considered that whatever the Sikh has, (body, mind and wealth) are bounties of the Guru-God. If someone helps the needy it should be kept secret. Exhibition or propagation is cheap popularity in the charity functions.

Sikh charity extends the sense of brotherhood, equality and enlarges the better relation between the rich and poor. It eliminates the caste feelings. The act of secret charity lowers down the ego of donor. Our centre of charity is Gurudwara free kitchen where (food) is served to all holy pilgrims without any consideration of caste, colour, race and country. _Guru ka Langar_ — is a good example and ideal of charity.

The Sikh concept of charity is important as well as interesting in its unique nature. Sikh Gurus taught us to do work hard with honesty and share out of it for the needy and never depend upon others. This way of charity is a source and means of understanding the way of life and salvation.

Satguru says: 
O, Nanak he alone knoweth the way who earneth with sweat of his brow and then shareth it with the others. (SGGS. 1245)

In Sikhism begging is prohibited. It is unrecognized and unknown. If any Sikh donor encourages such type of charity to an idle Sikh (beggar), it is against the principle of Sikh tradition and Guru’s teachings. In the Sikh history Sikh is marked as donor not as beggar. Sikh charity is neither to show off nor out of fear or curse, not to get any return or reward in heaven, nor for fame and popularity. It is a divine order of Guru. A Sikh should be very well aware to give it at the proper place to person.

Sikhism derides any kind of charity which is given from the money earned by unfair means. It also does not accept any offer of so called rich person, like Malak Bhago of egocentric nature.

Sikhism deprecates concentration of wealth, materialism and consumerism. In Sikh history we find word ‘_deg_’ a Persian word literally it stands for cooking pot, but symbolically it stands for free kitchen or _Guru ka Langar,_ to feed the poor and destitute. It is maintained till now in almost all the historic Gurudwaras.. It is a life giving source of Guru to his devotee to justify their honest earning for the gratification and glorification.

*Uniqueness of Sikh Charity:

*In Sikhism the holy congregational centers (sangat) were established at different and distant places by the Sikh Gurus during their preaching tours. These centers were named later on as Sikh sangats where the name of God was meditated upon and the purpose of these _sangats_ to manage food and shelter for devotees. This was continued upto Guru Gobind Singh, Guru Ji said at his last time at Nanded. (This version is available in _Suraj Parkash_ written by Bhai Santokh Singh):

"Keep my _langar_ ever open and receive offerings for Its maintenance".

It was often felt difficult due to the scarcity of sources as Nanded was a distant place from Punjab, The reply of Guru Ji again mentioned by the same writer of _Suraj Parkash_ is given below:

:Have patience, generous Sikhs will come and will make offerings, everything will be made by Guru’s name.

The Sikh idea of charity is against the monopoly. It always advocates the collective contributions or voluntary offerings. The Mughal Emperor Akbar while passing through Goindwal (The head quarter of Guru Amar Das) took the _Langar_ and was highly impressed by its neat and clean service and good maintenance. He offered a large estate to finance the free kitchen. Guru Ji politely declined this monopoly offer and said _Guru-Ka-Langer_ would be maintained by the charity of the Sikh Sangats.

In our _Rehatnamas,_ too, Sikh is advised to donate onetenth in the service of community. Bhai Nand Lal says:
<DIR>He who does not put in _golak_ of his true earnings, will have to pass through a thousand hells.
</DIR>Guru Gobind Singh says:
<DIR>Only he is the Khalsa
Who looks after the destitute
</DIR>Guru Ji again says:
<DIR>A poor man’s mouth is Guru’s treasury (receptacle)
</DIR>*Spiritual Charity:
*So far we have discussed the charity of economic and social field. Spiritual kind of charity is another unique type of charity which satisfies the moral thirst. Without _Naam_ (meditation) all worldly charities do not banish man’s ego:
<DIR>Without meditating on _Naam
_If the man donates wordly rich things
in charity, mountains of Gold, fine horses
Elephants, lands many cows, even then
</DIR>Mind’s ego does not dissipate.
(SGGS 62)​Satta and Balwand say:
<DIR>And he (Angad) distributed Guru’s word to one and all, and shared
all he had with them (SGGS: 966-67)
</DIR>God, his Word (_Gurbani_) and _sangat_ are the main sources of spiritual values. God bestows these bounties, good virtues, compassion, contentment humility, self-discipline, etc. through _Naam_. Spiritual charity is an endless treasure of good virtues which is neither stolen nor finishes. Without obtaining the spiritual values and virtues all worldly charities are useless:
<DIR>Bath in sixtyeight pilgrim stations
Construction of wells and tanks
Hearing of Simritis
If he (donor) slanders the saint
Then all the charities go away in waste. (SGGS 575)
</DIR>_Naam Daan_ (Charity) not only dignifies the man in this world but also facilitate him in the next world. ‘_Naam, Daan Ishnan,’_ the basic formula, stands for meditation, charity and piety. Symbolical _Atma_ (bride) begs the dowry of _Naam _from his father (Guru) as gift (_Daan_). This dowry will bring credit in the house of In-laws (God).
Guru says:
<DIR>O, my father (Guru) gift away to me
the dowry of Lord’s Name (SGGS. 79)
</DIR>Sikh theory of charity is a unique continuation of _Deg_ and _Teg_. It symbolizes spiritual and material sustenance. _Deg_ is to feed the poor _Teg_ is to teach the tyrant. Both should go hand in hand in the world. Both these are symbols of self-respect. In our daily prayer we remember those who dwelt on His name, shared their earnings with others. ‘Deg-Teg-Fateh’ are heavenly glories with the grace of Guru. All charitable things are the bounties of God, Sikh is only a servant to serve these:
<DIR>Bread and water belongs to the Lord and (the Sikh) desire to serve the pleasure of the Lord.
</DIR>A true attitude to charity demands dedication and devotion. Total surrender to the God presents the true picture of this concept when we remember the words Bhagat Kabir mentioned below:
<DIR>Nothing is mine, within me
O, God all that is, belong to you,
I have surrendered all to you. (SGGS 1375) ​</DIR>A true Sikh in his daily prayer begs from the Guru God:
<DIR>Grant to the Sikhs
The gift of Sikhism
The gift of intellect
The gift of faith
The gift of confidence and
The gift of gifts - the gift of _Naam.
</DIR>_Overall, the idea of charity teaches us many good virtues, values and help to make a success in the life’s goal and, on the other side, helps to overcome ego and many other social evils. Sikh community is understandably known for its hospitality and charity throughout the world.
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"You hear a lot of strange things about tithing ( dasvandh in Sikhism ). Some say it is a church ( religious ) tax, and they expect me to pay it and that is the end of it. Others say that when I give God one-tenth of my income, He blesses the nine-tenths that is left to the extent that the nine-tenths now goes as far as the whole thing used to go. This isn’t really true, is it? Suppose a farmer had 100 bushels of corn in the barn and he decides to plant 10 bushel in the ground. What multiplies? Is it the 90 bushels that he has left in the barn? Oh, no. All of us ‘farmers’ know it is the 10 bushels you put in the ground that multiplies. Similarly, it is the 10 percent you give to God that multiplies." 

— Stanley Tam (1915-), American businessman and philanthropist 

======================================================================== 

*DASVANDH or Dasaundh*, lit. a tenth part, refers to the practice among Sikhs of contributing in the name of the Guru onetenth of their earnings towards the common resources of the community. This is their religious obligation a form of seva or humble service so highly valued in the Sikh system. The concept of dasvandh was implicit in Guru Nanak's own line: "ghali khai kichhu hathhu dei, Nanak rahu pachhanahi sei He alone, 0 Nanak, knoweth the way who eats out of what he earneth by his honest labour and yet shareth part of it with others" (GG, 1245). The idea of sharing and giving was nourished by the institutions of sangat (holy assembly) and langar (community kitchen) the Guru had established. In the time of Guru Amar Das, Nanak III, a formal structure for channelizing Sikh religious giving was evolved. He set up 22 man/Is or districts in different parts of the country, each placed under the charge of a pious Sikh who, besides preaching Guru Nanak's word, looked after the sangats within his/her jurisdiction and transmitted the disciple's offerings to the Guru. As the digging of the sacred pool, amritsar, and erection in the middle of it of the shrine, Harimandar, began under Guru Ram Das entailing large amounts of expenditure, Sikhs were enjoined to set apart a minimum often per cent (dasvandh) of their income for the common pool, Guru ki Golak (q.v.). Masands, i.e. ministers and tithecollectors, were appointed to collect kar bhet (offerings) and dasvandh from Sikhs in the area they were assigned to, and pass these on to the Guru.

Dasvandh has since become part of the Sikh way of life. The custom bears parallels to Christian tithes requiring members of the church to pay a tenth part of the annual produce of their land or its equivalent in money to support it and the clergy, and to Muslim zakat requiring assignment of 2.5 per cent of one's annual wealth for the welfare of the destitute and the needy. Classical Indian society had no set procedure for regulating donations or charities, though references are traceable such as those in Parasar Rishi's writings urging the householder to reserve 1/21 part of his income for Brahmans and 1/31 part for the gods. The Upanisads and the Bhagavadgita commend "true alms" given with a sense of duty in a Fit place and at a fit time to a deserving person from whom one expects nothing in return. Dasvand is, however, to be distinguished from dan or charity. It essentially attends to the needs of the community and contributions are made specifically for the maintenance of its religious institutions such as gurdwaras and guru ka langar and projects of social welfare and uplift.

The custom of dasvandh was codified in documents called rahitnamas, manuals of Sikh conduct, written during the lifetime of Guru Gobind Singh or soon after. For example, Bhai Nand Lal's Tankhahnama records: "Hear ye, Nand Lal, says Gobind Singh, one who does not give dasvandh and, telling lies, misappropriates it, is not at all to be trusted." The tradition has been kept alive by chosen Sikhs who to this day scrupulously fulfil the injunction. The institution itself serves as a means for the individual to practice personal piety as well as to participate in the ongoing history of the community, the Guru Panth.


References
1. Sher Singh, The Philosophy of Sikhism. Lahore, 1944
2. Gopal Singh, A History of the Sikh People. Delhi, 1979
3. Avtar Singh, Ethics of the Sikhs. Patiala, 1970
4. Nripinder Singh, The Sikh Moral Tradition. Delhi, 1990
5. Cole, W. Owen and Piara Singh Sambhi, The Sikhs: Their Religious Beliefs and Practices. Delhi, 1978 W.S.

Source: http://thesikhencyclopedia.com


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## harbansj24 (Aug 30, 2010)

Gyani ji & Bhagat Singh ji,

Your anger is well appreciated.

But the realities and practicalities of real life are much more complex.

If you give charity individually to the homeless loitering on the streets, then you discover that they are drug addicts and a part of organised gangs and professional beggars. You will see the money or kindness bestowed by you go down the drain.

You also find that SGPC and DSGMC run hospitals and schools. Do we or do we not then give donations and some time to these organisations? Or do we shun them because the people managing them also line their pockets? 

Organisations like Pingalwara, Khalsa Yateem Khana, Biradh Ghar which were started by noble souls are now deterioting with the founders no longer on the scene.

Also in the same Gold gilted and marble cladded Gurdwaras you will find public spirited Bibis teaching Kirtan and Gurumukhi to school children during the vacations and also inculcating good moral values in them. So do we or do we not spend money and effort at such places?


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## BhagatSingh (Aug 30, 2010)

Harbans ji,
Yes, I recognize the concerns behind giving directly to homeless. Along with what you said, some of the genuine homeless DO have self-respect, and are not so willing to take.

Are they really earning a living or swimming in a room full of money? How would we know? Its hard to differentiate. We just have to make a judgement and go with it.

It is hard to choose but the internet has connected us to many more people that we would ever be, I think if we worked at it we could identify proper charities and projects... even gurudwaras...out of the whole mess.


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## findingmyway (Aug 30, 2010)

Why restrict yourself to charities and causes with a Sikhi focus? They are important but all of humanity needs help. Bhai Kanhaiya Ji served water to all regardless of religion or background ikonkaar


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## harbansj24 (Aug 31, 2010)

Thasnks findingmyway ji, for this courageous suggestion. I too have often wondered that why should I be restrained on religious grounds alone. 
As Bhagat Singh ji has pointed out the internet has made it possible to identify worthy causes and organisations.


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## dalbirk (Aug 31, 2010)

I do not want any Sikh to contribute to non - Sikh causes ( at least in the present time ) when we still have to do so much for our own community . We have still to fight court cases of 1984 genocide , we still have to take Punjab rural youth  out of the rut of drugs , Achohalism , apostateness almost 80% of the rural youth is into them . Uneducation is a very big drawback of Punjab rural youth , we have still to make thousands of schools , colleges , universities which also teach religion like Akal Acadamy , Baru Sahib ( despite my differences on meat ) We still have to make a site like SPN self reliant unable to manage only 300 USD per month to run with 12500+ members . We still have to take care of Siglicars , Vanjaras who are capable of making us a very very big force in Indian democracy where numbers matter like the Muslims . We still have a long way to go let us not make anybody stronger who may turn out to be our enemy in the long run & a danger to our existence itself . we still have to preach our religion to 99% of the Sikhs who cannot spell the name of our ten Gurus in sequence . Still to spread our religion to abour 500 million Dalits , Tribals & all downtrodden classes of India for whom Gurbani is a way to living emancipation . Till we do the above mentioned my strict NO to all Daswandh spending for Non - Sikhi causes just to gain some false media coverage .


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## findingmyway (Aug 31, 2010)

You bring attention to some good causes. However, I don't think it is fair to dictate to people where to send their personal daswand. All causes are equal. As for education, start locally with your time and watch things grow as others become enthusiastic. Each person should follow their own conscience.


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## dalbirk (Sep 1, 2010)

Following the conscience is exactly the misleading word we should try to avoid , it boosts ego nothing else . Daswandh is meant to be spent for COMMUNITY BENIFIT ONLY which IMHO means specifically SIKH COMMUNITY . Forgive my choice of words .


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 1, 2010)

dalbirk said:


> I do not want any Sikh to contribute to non - Sikh causes ( at least in the present time ) when we still have to do so much for our own community . We have still to fight court cases of 1984 genocide , we still have to take Punjab rural youth  out of the rut of drugs , Achohalism , apostateness almost 80% of the rural youth is into them . Uneducation is a very big drawback of Punjab rural youth , we have still to make thousands of schools , colleges , universities which also teach religion like Akal Acadamy , Baru Sahib ( despite my differences on meat ) We still have to make a site like SPN self reliant unable to manage only 300 USD per month to run with 12500+ members . We still have to take care of Siglicars , Vanjaras who are capable of making us a very very big force in Indian democracy where numbers matter like the Muslims . We still have a long way to go let us not make anybody stronger who may turn out to be our enemy in the long run & a danger to our existence itself . we still have to preach our religion to 99% of the Sikhs who cannot spell the name of our ten Gurus in sequence . Still to spread our religion to abour 500 million Dalits , Tribals & all downtrodden classes of India for whom Gurbani is a way to living emancipation . Till we do the above mentioned my strict NO to all Daswandh spending for Non - Sikhi causes just to gain some false media coverage .





> Following the conscience is exactly the misleading word we should try to  avoid , it boosts ego nothing else . Daswandh is meant to be spent for  COMMUNITY BENIFIT ONLY which IMHO means specifically SIKH COMMUNITY .  Forgive my choice of words .



Dalbirk ji,

Guru Fateh.

I agree with you that a lot is needed to be done in the Sikh community in India. It is a shame that SGPC who rakes millions of dollars is not spending the money to eradicate the problems and in  the above causes and the same can be said for DGPC who wants to gold plate Bangla Sahib. It is a shame indeed.

Until and unless, these Nishaan Sahib bearers of the Sikhs become leaders  in leading these causes, nothing would be solved.

Having said that, I have a couple of questions for you regarding your posts above.

1. Do you also think based on your above thought process that Langar should only be served to Sikhs?

2. Do you think we should close the other 3 doors of Darbar Sahib and only Sikhs should be invited at the Gurdwaras?

3. Do you think that all Sikh organisations who helped people from all faiths, hues and creeds during Tsunami in Indonesia, Sri Lanka and India were wrong?

4.Do you think  that Gurdwaras and Sikh orgnisations who helped raise money  for Haiti and many volunteered to go there, and some are still there helping are doing something wrong?

5.  Lastly, do you think that the Sikh organisations who are helping the flood victims in Pakistan are wrong?

Please elaborate your answers based on Gurmat ideals.

And, I am still waiting for your insights and Gurmat wisdom regarding my questions posed to you, G Singh ji and others so we can start analysing the message  given to  us by G Singh ji in the thread Reincarnation. After all Sikhi is about a collective effort. I have not heard anything from G Singh ji either.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh


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## findingmyway (Sep 1, 2010)

There are now probably more Sikhs living overseas then in India. Many are converts or 2nd generation plus. Surely these Sikhs also have obligations to their home country as well as to India?


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## Arvind (Sep 3, 2010)

Gareeb da Mooh Guru Ki Golak


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## dalbirk (Sep 4, 2010)

Langar is open to all communities & Darbar Sahib or any Gurudwara is open to all communities . My point is that still hundreds of Sikhs are languishing in Rajasthan Jails , killers of Sikhs roaming free due to non persuance of cases in courts for lack of money , Sikhi is in the danger of being absorbed by Brahminism , Sikhi is vanishing from its home in Punjab . All these factors demand compelling actions to do something which we are not doing . Imagine we do not have any press , TV channels a forum like SPN is struggling to stay afloat who will come to our rescue incase 1984 is repeated in future . We do not have any power in India where nos count making us a laughing stock in others' eyes whenever incidents like Sacha sauda incident take place taken to ask by each & every TV channel like CNN--IBN , NDTV who accuse us to be communal minded & arousing passions . Sikhs are on a very lean footing in India We should know clearly where our priorities lie .


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## Hardip Singh (Sep 5, 2010)

dalbirk said:


> Langar is open to all communities & Darbar Sahib or any Gurudwara is open to all communities . My point is that still hundreds of Sikhs are languishing in Rajasthan Jails , killers of Sikhs roaming free due to non persuance of cases in courts for lack of money , Sikhi is in the danger of being absorbed by Brahminism , Sikhi is vanishing from its home in Punjab . All these factors demand compelling actions to do something which we are not doing . Imagine we do not have any press , TV channels a forum like SPN is struggling to stay afloat who will come to our rescue incase 1984 is repeated in future . We do not have any power in India where nos count making us a laughing stock in others' eyes whenever incidents like Sacha sauda incident take place taken to ask by each & every TV channel like CNN--IBN , NDTV who accuse us to be communal minded & arousing passions . Sikhs are on a very lean footing in India We should know clearly where our priorities lie .


 
What you think whose fault it is? Our own, dear friend. We have only exibited to the world our inner fightings for the control of Gurdwara mangements, our boozing standerds, our anger over nothings just bull-dozing. For the world we are a divided lot even on our holy scriptures. Nowhere, we have shown a united stand to the world. Lets first correct ourselves and than think of priorties etc.swordfight


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 17, 2010)

EK Gharree aadhi gharree aadhee se aaddh......just a split second blink of an eye...connection established with the Creator...24 hours is a Man made Invention.
Donot fall into the trap of RITUALISM Daswandh donation of TIME....a doctor who spends all his 24/7 among the poor and the underprivileged serving the sick humanity is more beloved of HIM than the Expensive surgeon who only does appointment ops at high pay and spends 6 HOURS DAILY in "meditation"???? doing four or five Sukhmanis and Japjis etc. Today we live in a world where RITUALISM and outward show reigns supreme...and bhed chaal behaviour is rampant...hence daily 3 am waheguru wahegur chanting meditation sessions in Gurdwaras are the rage....when this is NOT what GURBANI advocates..SGGS advocates LIVING GURBANI in daily lives to change them..rangesingh::blinkingkaur:


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 17, 2010)

I personally know a dear friend who is heavily into..."arranging/transporting/accomodating/promoting..etc> Ragi Jathas for Kirtan in local Gurdwaras, they regularly stay at his house for weeks, and he has a Gutka in hand 24/7 doing "paath" while his "HR Manager just outside his door "squeezes" the blood of his poor guards/general labourers...pay-cuts on flimsy excuses like ...came 10 mins late...didnt report sick..was absent..didnt wear shoes on duty, didnt tuck in trouser legs into shoes...NO MERCY shown in name of "discipline"...its  a lucky guard that gets his full pay or dues....even though the guards are paid a PITTANCE of what the Contract Payment from the Corporation/factory/hotel received....the more than DOUBLE EXTRA is..for "administrative purposes..risk..overheads etc etc...ha ha ha..and of course all the Mediation/Japjis/sukhmanis read during working hours may make this "halaal" ???? the Boss may be absent due to taking the Ragis for a midnight supper..BUT a Guard gets his pay cut if he is absent sending his aged mother to hopsital...obviously the Priorities are WRONG ??? are they ?? or are we blindly following what the sant babas advocate...our concept of paaps and punns is makiing us frauds....fake "gurmukhs "...give genuine daswandh where its due...kaurhug


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 17, 2010)

jasdir singh said:


> "Gallien jog na hoie"
> 
> There is lot of differece between saying and doing or living gurbani



EXACTLY and SPOT ON veer Ji...

The Jogis and Sidhs and Pandits that Guru Ji SAW were doing PURE RITUALISTIC paaths and poojas..for showing the world at large their spirituality....and LIVING the exact OPPOSITE. Gurbani shows us how to do real Jog..be a real sidh...and a saint-soldier...we carry the SPIRIT of the WARRIOR and the SWORD of the SAINT.


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