# Dukh Bhanjani Sahib Paath



## faujasingh (Sep 4, 2009)

Could anyone please share information about DukhBhanjani Sahib. I am doing the Paath however am not aware of the history and who has assembled the shabads and formed this beautiful composition.


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## spnadmin (Sep 4, 2009)

faujasingh ji

If you are doing the paath you can see that all parts of Dukh Bhanjani Sahib are begun with mehala 5. That means Guru Arjan Dev. The Guru's shabads are all numbered accordingly. Mehala 1 through 5, the Mehala 9. 

The key to its origins lies in 5th Nanak's prayer of thanks to the Satguru for sparing the life of Har Gobind, and restoring his health. Hargobind was to become the 6th Guru Hargobind Dev and as a child endured small pox. 

In these these places;

1.  Page620 Line 7  Raag Sorith: Guru Arjan Dev

  ਸਦਾ ਅਨੰਦ ਕਰਹ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਗੋਵਿਦੁ ਗੁਰਿ ਰਾਖਿਆ ॥
  sadhaa anandh kareh maerae piaarae har govidh gur raakhiaa ||
   So celebrate and be happy, my beloveds - the Guru has saved Hargobind.


            2.  Page620 Line 17  Raag Sorith: Guru Arjan Dev

  ਧਾਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਹਾਥ ਦੇ ਰਾਖਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਗੋਵਿਦੁ ਨਵਾ ਨਿਰੋਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
  dhhaar kirapaa prabh haathh dhae raakhiaa har govidh navaa niroaa ||1|| rehaao ||
   Showering us with His Mercy and Grace, God extended His Hand, and saved Hargobind, who is now safe and secure. ||1||Pause||



The deliverance from fever and disease is  image that is embedded everywhere in the Dukh Bhanjani. The fever, all disease, all pain, all fear, all doubt is dispelled and this happens because of the True Guru, whose mercy and grace restores everything to peace and health. So the story of deliverance from physical pain and fever and disease of young Hargobind forms the basis for understanding deliverance from spiritual pain and return to spiritual wellness. There are many places in the Dukh Bhanjani where we are also reminded that the path to finding union with the Satguru was not easy for Guru Arjan Dev. His was not "instant" sehaj. This is reflected in other parts of his Bani including Shabad Hazoore. It was at first difficult and then he "got it." Dukh Bhanjani echoes everywhere that trust overcomes doubt and that eventually submission to the Satguru heals all pain and suffering and restores peace tand wellness o the home of our own heart.


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## spnadmin (Sep 4, 2009)

YouTube - Dukh Bhanjani Sahib


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## Hardip Singh (Sep 5, 2009)

This whole concept of Dukhbhanjani Sahib is not at all as per Sikhi or SGGS ji. This collection was compiled by various Babas and Deradars from SGGS ji in colision with some greedy publishers, just to make a fool of the innocent Sikhs who were coming to all these Baba jees for their 'Dukhs' or problems. Any shabad which had just a minor reference to any particular problem , were put in this collection. Then they were advised to do so much so number of paths of this shabad from this collection or the whole lot even and miracles will happen and your problem is going to be over or solved.

It has been clearly established from our various discussions on this forum that parroting of any particular word or Bani or Shabad is not going to give us the desired results.. But, we can minimise our sorrows or problems only by following the dictates of our Gurus in true letter and spirit, as described in SGGS ji.


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## dalbirk (Sep 5, 2009)

WHOLE OF GURBANI IS DUKHBHANJANI SAHIB . Reading a particular Shabad or collection of Shabads to dispel some sorrow is not Gurmat way . IMHO Dukhbhanjani Sahib is the outcome of misleading & delibrate twisting by so called Sants , Babas , Brahmgianis of REAL ESSENCE of Gurbani which is to LIVE IN & ABIDE BY HIS HUKAM . Sorrow & pleasures r two sides of same coin , a REAL GURMUKH has got the strength to treat both of them alike . Does not get distressed in sorrows & does not get swayed in plaesures . These Dukhbhanjani Sahibs are just the perfect recipes to get a Sikh away from Gurmat into Brahminical ways . Chanting Mantras in false hopes of attaining MAN MANGI MURAAD ( Heart's wish ) . Gurbani does not support such ways .


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## spnadmin (Sep 5, 2009)

Dalbirk ji and Hardip ji

You are 100 percent on the mark in your remarks. I did not bring that point up -- that there is a kind of aura of a scam surrounding the Dukh Bhanjani Sahib ji. Apologies for not doing that. It is in fact all over the Internet that paath of these bani starts up and a lot of people are roped into thinking that continuous recitation of it will cure every evil. It should not be treated as if it had magical powers. I hope it was clear that I limited my comments to who wrote the Bani - Guru Arjan Dev - and what the significance of that Bani was in his life. Forgive any offense. It was unintentional.


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## faujasingh (Sep 8, 2009)

excellent explanation Dalibirk ji What I wanted to know was when has this come into existance ? who's compilation would this have been ? I understand that 5th mehla is Guru Arjan devji's composition of course. Lets see what more info comes out. 

Even if it is a compilations by some people we need to understand that the Saloks are a part of our Gurbani and we cannot direspect Bani. I am not against such compilations since it is man's nature to look for solace. Man worships in the way he is comfortable so as long as the Bani is not altered and this is exactly Guruji's Bani then its all fine. 

We curse such people who have compiled the saloks however we at the same time disregard editing of Bani by today's so called 'scholars'.


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## spnadmin (Sep 8, 2009)

So faujasingh ji

Are you asking who was the first person to put the bani of Guru Arjan Dev together to create the paath of Dukh Bhanjani Sahib? I missed your point. The question should be something that can be answered by a historian of Sikh Scripture. One place to start might be the admin of either SriGranth or Search Gurbani. Worth giving it a try.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 8, 2009)

Its done by the BOOKSELLERS. Period.

The Printing and distribution of Gurbani, SGGS Birs, Teekas, etc etc etc was all the MONOPOLY of a few BOOKSELLERS and PUBLISHERS ONLY. Bazaar Mai Sevaan in Amrtisar..has books of these for sale..its a street of BOOKS. Apart from sikh history, these people also engage in Marketing stretegies..to SELL GURBANI in various ways..hence we have various GUTKAS.."GURBANI REMIXES"....some having short rehrass( for the SGPC SRM followers)..other having long rehrass (for damdmai taksalis and other dera followers)..soem have this shabad added and that shabad removed..etc etc..something like different BRANDS of toothpaste...soem for white teetth..soem for whiter teeth..some for even whiter teeth..some for bad breath..etc etc...even TODAY these types of Gutkas and books of tall tales to sideline and sidetrack Sikhs coentinue to eb printed and sold by these booksellers. GURBANI SELLING IS BIG BUSINESS..has been for a century at least...for many booksellers...
With the coming of the INTERNET and COMPUTER AGE..many poeple are FREE of the Monopoly of the PRINTING PRESS...but this also means many many more arm chair Gurbani REMIXES are on the loose...they sit at home and churn out Gutkas with special shabads for special remedies...

GURBANI IS SPIRITUAL FOOD FOR the Mann..to CURE the INNER SPIRIT of its ILLS of greed , lobh, hankaar, kaam etc..the FIVE THIEVES...and IF we can "USE" the Dukh Bhanjani shabds as DUKH BREAKERS ( and say that Guru Arjun ji wrote them for Hargobind Ji..his son's safety/wellbeing )..then why do we shy away from the shabads that hew rote in which He says..DOSH na kahoon debvohn..Tera bahnna meetha laggeh while sitting on the Hot Plate !! We PICK and CHOOSE..while Guru Arjun ji is 100% BALANCED...when His son is cured..he is THANKFUL...when Guru Arjun ji is seated on the hot plate;he is again THANKFUL....BUT How about US ?? we are HYPOCRITES...most of the time. WE want SUKH..but not dukh....and the TRUTH is BOTH Sukh and Dukh coem form the SAME CREATOR and are HIS GIFTS..for which we must be THANKFUL as Guru Arjun Ji IS. PERIOD.
So this DUKHBHANJANI COLLECTION of Gurbani shabads is a MISREPRESENTATION of the OBJECTIVE of GURBANI and an insult to its philosophy. READ and UNDERSTAND the shabads and APPLY them. ( Simple analogy..whenever we make any changes to our computer...we have to click "APPLY" or all the changes are lost !! SAME for Gurbani..without clicking "APPLY" the entire exercise is in FUTILITY.:welcome:


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## harbansj24 (Sep 9, 2009)

Well said Gyaniji. 
But I am also  sure that you must be familiar with the realities of India. There are millions of families with very limited means stretching themselves to the limit  for survival. With that they provide for daily needs, for illness, for education and more often than not have hopelessness staring them in the face. Most of the children are likely to grow up and be doing nothing.
I am sure that you do empathise with them.
So is there anything seriously wrong if such persons use  crutches or supports to try to climb on to the pedestal of chardi kalan? Is not the journey in Sikhism a step by step experience as very eloquently put by Narayanjot ji in another thread?
Not all Sants or Babas are frauds. I  know a few of them. Some were very close and trusted associates of Bhai Vir Singh ji and who have contributed enormously by pulling up such hopelessly placed families step by step. Yes, they did advise them to recite Japji sahib, Chaupayi Sahib, Dukhbanjani Sahib etc as per the situation of the particular person. 
Just yesterday in another thread, on the effect of placebos, we had discussed that Naam Simran has an equal if not greater effect. Tejwant ji also the related the beneficial effect  some inspirational shabads have on him.
So Naam Simran and Gurus Shabads do create positive psychic effects which in turn triggers beneficial neurological biochemical reactions which induces positive vibrations in the person.
Therefore lets not frighten and drive away persons who have faith in Gurbani into the laps of charlatans who hand out charms and practice magic, by unrealistically expecting them to reach the highest level of Sikhism ideals in one go. 
We must understand that reality of life is much more complex, more so in India


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 9, 2009)

HarbansJ24 Ji,

I personally met a amrtidharee woman at Takhat damdama sahib in 2005. She was at the side of the Sarovar...and looked very very sad. I talked to her briefly and it turned out that she had been having a tough life with a drug addict abusive husband...unrelenting abusive mother in law who never blamed her son for anything, her daughter had passed away due to a fever and no money to buy medicine. She approached the Pujarees at the Takhat..they advised..so many Japji Sahibs will do the trick...after having done that and no results..they advised perhaps so many sukhmani shaibs will help...so many Chaupaii Sahibs..and so many..so many.... in another sarovar at a different Gurdwara where the sevadaar told her she must do so many Japji shaibs standing in the cold water at midnight..last i heard a woman was found floating in a sarovar...she could be the one...BECAUSE Japji Sahibs NEVER cured any drug addict husband, alcoholic husband, out of kehai children, out of control daughters etc. Telling such people to "recite" so many Japjis..is like the Doctor telling his emergency patient to..go for a few rounds around the city park...and return later...and then be told to go to have a holiday in Sri nagar Kashmir..and come back if still suffering from heart attack !!

In my personal capacity I do get so many such requests. The PARENTS obviously NEGLECTED their responsibilities...and when their chidlren begin skipping school, find dubious boyfriends/girlfriends...begin drinking womansiisng etc..they come running to me..Gyani Ji ARDASS KARO...parshaad karo..Paath karo..or TELL US..How many Japjis to do ?? oh ik veran baba ji ne falaneee bibi nu keha see 101 japjis kar..usdee kurree theek ho gayee..aaj viaheeyee hoee hai..baal bacha hai..sadee kurre nu wee theek kardo.....

IS GURBANI  a PLACEBO ?? Placebos cure PHYSICAL DISEASES that are the result of MENTAL STRESS. a Placebo can NEVER bring back a Diabetic's cut foot..or a lost eye ???

Chardee Kalla comes FROM JEEWAN !! APPLICATION of GURBANI !!

A mail making the rounds of the Internet decribes how the son of  a Catholic PRIEST..was so IMPRESSED by the REAL LIFE of a SIKH GRANTHI...that he Became a SIKH..a Model SIKH !! THAT is spreading CHARDEE KALLA BY EXAMPLE..as the Gurus did..the singhs of old did...they LIVED GURBANI. Period.
Life is hectic, complex..everywhere..not just in India...its a myth that Dollars /Pounds hang on trees in UK or Canada..or they Grow like Grass just waiting to be picked up..in Fact LIVING in a  Challenged position is more likely to produce a good man...the BEST STEEL is not made in a lukewarm bhatthhee...its made in the HOTTEST FIRE- thats why INDIA has produced the largest number of Spiritually Great Men - Punjab had 10 Guru Nanak Jyot...which other country had such a big number in a continous stream in short time period ??

I have personally contributed towards the rehabilitation (pulling back out of clutches of fraud baabas) of seven families in Punjab since 2005. ALL were ardent RECITERS of Japji sahib/chaupaii/sukhmani etc BUT Firmly entrenched in their own Pet BABA JI as the GREATEST as well. One family was willing to die for Sant Isher singh rarewallah..another staunch nanaksariahs...another was dead set for dhadrianwallah. The Common thing was..GURU GRANTH is SECOND..Baba JI is FIRST !!..HE TALKS..he gives advise on crops, children education..husband addiction problems etc etc..while the SGGS is FOR READING ONLY. THESE were SINGHS of the BABAS and NOT SGGS./GURU GOBIND SINGH Ji...on the surface they wore banna kirpans, recited nitnem etc..BUT FAITH in SGGS..came far second to baba JI !!! NOW they are rehabilitated..and since 2007 none of them ever mentioned their Baba ji again except for SGGS ONLY. (and they stopped reading the other Punjabi papers Ajit and Jagbani and began to subscribe to Rozana Spokesman). Another family that i failed to convince has given their FOUR SONS..all grown UP...to a MUSLIM PIR baba, Baba at Beas, another in malwa somewhere..and one to a smadh in sultanpur lodhi dist. WHILE many in Punajb would give anything for a SON..this man donated hisi FOUR SONS..to the RUBBISH HEAP !! On his death he will donate his 8 acres land to Beas. He is an "amrtidaree" wears kirpan etc and recites the Nitnem banis daily and sukhmani shaib at least ten times...He took me on a special tour of the places (deras) where he donated his sons...to convince ME that he is right..these Babas are all powerful..while the SGGS is  silent book. 
So YES JI..I do have some finger on the pulse of Punjab..and its REALITY...the 99% of Amrtidharees..are actually HOLLOW INSIDE...they are sikhs of their own Babas...very very few are really sikhs of SGGS 100%.


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## faujasingh (Sep 9, 2009)

Very well said Gyani ji and I personally thank you this great seva you have done. I know of a amritdhari collegue  who's family got into the beas waale influence and he had then cut his kesh. This man even went to the level of discussing with another muslim collegue of ours, the 'bad effects' of keeping kesh and tying the pag !!!. 'Bas**rd* !  

The work you personally are doing is really good. The prob is with the mentality of such beings. I have met people of the white race belivers of Voodoo and Vicca ! This kind of thinking is growing everywhere.

Gyani ji what i think is as long as you follow the Bani without personal alterations from anyone it is fine. I have personally experienced the effects of doing the Paath of Sukhmani Sahib. Some people benifit others may have other things to say.

What I feel it is ok to have compiled Banis in a form like DukhBhanjani Sahib. As Long As This is revealed. This is not advertised in the name of the Gurus or any Bhagats.


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## Admin (Sep 9, 2009)

> What I feel it is ok to have compiled Banis in a form like DukhBhanjani Sahib.



And then when after the passage of another 100 years, we will have another Granth, on the lines of Dasam Granth, ready to replace of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, as only this collection of Gurbani is good for your personal benefit rest of the Gurbani does not have any benefit for you, so we can discard it... :advocate:


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## spnadmin (Sep 9, 2009)

Aman ji

Thanks for pointing out a potential difficulty, which I missed completely. I have a concern.  It is puzzling to me that the well known Gurbani site Rag Karega Khalsa includes Dukh Bhanjani Sahib in its collection of Gurbani/Sikh Prayers. After reading this thread from start to finish I am left wondering why they would do that. Another concern comes from the title -- "Sahib" is the last word. How is it that Dukh Bhanjani would end with Sahib when it is a compilation of raags that were assembled later in our history by individuals who were not either Gurus or members of the committee who wrote the Sikh Rehat Maryada. This situation has the look of a creeping vine that invades everywhere in garden and even the house. Left pondering and without answers. :8-


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## faujasingh (Sep 9, 2009)

Thats why I say " As long as this is revealed" . The compilation if revealed will not do any replacements however with correct references given will give rise to inquisitiveness in a person's mind. He might want to read the complete Bani rather than compilation. 

There is this line in the Salok what is more of an inspiration for me and the urge to read more Bani grows in me:

 " 
a-ukhaDh mantar tant sabh chhaar.
All medicines and remedies, mantras and tantras are nothing more than ashes.
karnaihaar riday meh Dhaar. ||3||
Enshrine the Creator Lord within your heart. ||3||
taj sabh bharam bhaji-o paarbarahm.
Renounce all your doubts, and vibrate upon the Supreme Lord God
kaho naanak atal ih Dharam. ||4||80||149||
Says Nanak, this path of Dharma is eternal and unchanging.


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## harbansj24 (Sep 9, 2009)

Gyaniji,

Agreed 99% of Sants are fake but still there are 1% who are genuine followers of SGGS and ask the Sangat to have faith only in SGGS. They also ask the Sangat to do Nitnem and in addition recite Sukhmani sahib.  SGGS repeatedly says that doing Simran is one of the foremost tasks of this Janam. So if 1% of Sants (the genuine ones) prescribe recitation of some Shabads, what is wrong with that? They also give a rider "Aghe Jive Guru nu bhave" (Rest is upto the Guru)

SGGS puts genuine Sants on a very high pedestal. The whole of Ashtpadi 13 of Sukhmani Sahib dissuades us from doing Ninda of Genuine Sants and tells about the beneficial effects of their company. Many other passages of SGGS say the same thing.

So lets not wholesale reject the role of genuine Sants in Sikhism. That itself will be going against SGGS!


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 9, 2009)

Dukh Bhanjani Sahib "Gutka" is like making snake oil of this beautiful Gurbani and peddling to the individuals for their individual " needs". It is shame to notice that the care takers of Sikhi have made Gurbani into some illusionary black magic where all desires can be fulfilled by just parroting this beautiful poetry, rather than showing them the ways how to open this wonderful tool box and use the tools for the betterment of one's life.

This is very insulting to our Gurus' vision and to their efforts.

Tejwant Singh


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## spnadmin (Sep 9, 2009)

Tejwant ji

Why do you think that a web site like www.ragkaregakhalsa.com has included Dukh Bhanjani Sahib among its gurbani files. After thinking through this conversation, it seems strange to me.


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 9, 2009)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Tejwant ji
> 
> Why do you think that a web site like www.ragkaregakhalsa.com has included Dukh Bhanjani Sahib among its gurbani files. After thinking through this conversation, it seems strange to me.


 
Narayanjot ji,

It is more because of a long tradition, fear of what may happen as if Ik Ong Kaar is a punisher if one does not do Dukh Bhanjani paath as instructed by elders of the household and lack of deep understanding of Gurbani which makes the Gurmat thought process a bit shallow and last but not the least, -it does not matter or there is no harm kind of Punjabi mentality.

We always had Dukh Bhanjani Sahib's gutkas at our house and several of them and were urged to do it.

When one puts all this in Punjabi cultural gumbo, then there is no thinking required and the things continue as mere mechanical rituals rooted in family traditions where elders have the power and are always "right".

Tejwant Singh


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 9, 2009)

Harbans ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:



> SGGS puts genuine Sants on a very high pedestal. The whole of Ashtpadi 13 of Sukhmani Sahib dissuades us from doing Ninda of Genuine Sants and tells about the beneficial effects of their company. Many other passages of SGGS say the same thing.
> 
> So lets not wholesale reject the role of genuine Sants in Sikhism. That itself will be going against SGGS!


The question arises who are the Sants? SGGS, our ONLY Guru tells us that all of us are capable of being Sants. Secondly, there is no pedestal for any Sikh. We are all equal in the "eyes" of Ik Ong Kaar. Our Gurus never put themselves on any pedestal. They were our mates as SGGS is now.

Guru Gobind Singh ji lowered himself down to our level so we could be lifted to his through Khandei di Pahul.

So, Sants are not of some class on their own. Who is a genuine Sant and who is not, if measured by the human's benchmark, then it becomes a very subjective thing. The same person can be a genuine Sant for some and a real Thug for others.

Only Ik Ong Kaar knows which milestone each of us is at no matter how long some of ours cholas are.

The best part of Gurbani is that it gives the tools to all of us to raise our level of normalcy and become lotuses raising ourselves out of the muck of maya. Hence, all of us are capable of that.

Lastly, when Gurbani talks about Sants, Brahamgyanis etc. etc.,it attaches these people with their actions and deeds, which means these are not any titles/nouns but adjectives which require the continuous actions of goodness.

In other words, a spring of water ceases to be a spring when the water dries up and  then, it just becomes one more hole in the ground. 

Nothing more but one more insignificant hole.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 9, 2009)

There are also many more such "collections"...one is "SUKHMANA Sahib"...Male of Sukhmani !!
The POINT to note is..THEY ARE ALL MAN MADE...collected together into "GUTKAS" ( over which there is no central or any type of control as is over Birhs of SGGS...) so ANYTHING goes...and the collection criteria is.."based on SUPERFICIAL LITERAL meanings of the shabads....why DUKH BHANJAN..when in Rehrass we read..DUKH DAROO..sukh ROG bhaiyah ?? To soemone losing a Court Case is DUKH...and he reads a shabd to alleviate/avoid this particular "DUKH"...another may have been arrested over  a bribe...and faces the court..he too reads the Dukh Bhanjani sahib to escape "punishment"...etc etc etc..each has his /her own 'dukh"..which are all actually physical, brought upon ones self by ones own actions, etc etc....IF a person were LIVING ACCORDING TO GURBANI in the first place..he would realise that DUKH DAROO SUKH ROG Bhaiyah..is Right..and that BOTH are in HIS HUKM.
Same applies to all other collections...they are PICKED/CHOSEN from SGGS by individuals who based their choice on superficial understanding of the WORDS....and NOT the actual DEPTH Meanings of Shabads...and they give one a False sense of "security"..
AAGHEY JIVEHN GURU NU BHAVEH..has to be !! Simply BECAUSE NO MAN..sant or Brahmgyani can ALTER the CREATORS HUKM. Thats is actually a DISCLAIMER..a washing off ones hands in case the RESULT is NOT as expected....OH..then in that case its the GURU who is responsible..not me..i did my best.( BUT IF the result is as the sant said..then..sant jis reputation gets five stars...and GURU is a forgotten word...)
IMHO..its always bettert o let prople know the TRUTH from day one...no point in slowly easing in the truth...one day will come when the TRUTH will OUT.

1. Juts as  a matter of Interest...the Most SELLING "GUTKA" of all is the AMRIT KIRTAN POTHI..which ALL kirtaniyas use for Kirtan...that is a COPYRIGHTED GUTKA..shabads put together by an individual...
2. The SUNDER GUTKA is another such gutka...another best seller...
3. Any one can put together a Gutka/pothi etc..no control...and name it any way he likes...
4. Sikhs love to PUT "SAHIB" as  a tail to anything and everything...when the REAL MEANING of SAHIB..is THE CREATOR !!

 a small joke..a Nihung sat down beside a person in a train. From which station did you board ? asked the Nihung..Patna replied the man. Straight away the Nihung slapped the man and said..Patna SAHIB is the correct name. Where are you going ? was the next question..Ananadpur..replied the man..and got another slap...Anandpur SAHIB !!  Now the man was determined not to get slapped again....The Train stopped at a  station..and the Nihung asked the man..what station is this...he hesitated and repleid..Kapurthala SAHIB..the Nihung once more slapped him..Oiyeh you just dont add SAHIB to any  Tom and Harry place...!! but Sikhs do just THAT...:happy:


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## harbansj24 (Sep 10, 2009)

> AAGHEY JIVEHN GURU NU BHAVEH..has to be !! Simply BECAUSE NO MAN..sant or Brahmgyani can ALTER the CREATORS HUKM. Thats is actually a DISCLAIMER..a washing off ones hands in case the RESULT is NOT as expected....OH..then in that case its the GURU who is responsible..not me..i did my best.( BUT IF the result is as the sant said..then..sant jis reputation gets five stars...and GURU is a forgotten word...)



Gyani ji,

Now this is approaching total cynicism. The Sant is damned if he does and damned if does not!
A genuine Sant has a proper recognition as per SGGS.  "Sidak" in Guru's Shabad and not cynicism is the way of our Guru.


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## harbansj24 (Sep 10, 2009)

> Lastly, when Gurbani talks about Sants, Brahamgyanis etc. etc.,it attaches these people with their actions and deeds, which means these are not any titles/nouns but adjectives which require the continuous actions of goodness.



Tejwant ji,

It is correct that only the actions determine a person. But a Gurmukh or Sant (same thing) has reached a position from which he does not slide back.

But persons like me oscillate from being a Manmukh, a Sanmukh and occasionally can only  at the most reach the fringes of being a Gursikh. 

But Gurmukh is different. (Gurmukh rom rom Har dhiyaveh). When he reaches the position when every pore of his being is immersed in Simran, then where is the question of his sliding into mediocracy?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 10, 2009)

Harbans Ji,
Imho its not cynicism. AS Gurbani declares..SACH senaisee SACH KEE BELA...even the TRUTH has a certain "time frame" for it to be told... a TRUTH REVEALED decades later has no effect on events...the "truth" is no more as powerfrul....its emasculated.
Recently an elder of a political party in Malaysia revealed such a "truth"..that in 1970, he "pocketed 30 votes meant for Candidate B"..and as  aresult Candiadte A won the Presidency and remained President since...and NOW Canddiate B is once again trying his chances..after having been over 40 years in the wilderness. This "TRUTH" has no value..40 years ago it had value...Now 40 years past its BELA..its no longer SACH as should be..its "sach"...
GURBANI is Eternal TRUTH and its BELA is NOW...the person in authority who is aksed..MUST tell the TRUTH NOW. At one time..Sulhi Khan came on the Offensive to KILL Guru Arjun Ji....He was dragged into a burnign kiln and destroyed and nothing happeend to the GURU...that TRUTH is in GURBANI...years later CHANDU also came on the OFFENSIVE..and this time Guur Ji was MARTYRED on the Hot Plate...again its the TRUTH.
And OUR weakness is we prefer to "choose" the Sulhi Khan "
truth" as preferred..hence our preoccupation with Bhagat Prehlaad..sakhis..Bhagat Kabir Ji and the River Ganga sakhi..Bhgat Namdev Ji in front of the Mad elephant sakhi..etc etc..when Guru Ji says that we MUST go for the ULTIMATE TRUTH and BE PREPARED FOR THAT at all times..and say TERA BHANNA MEETHA LAGGEH.
THIS shaky ground scenario leads many to beleive that One Bhai Makhan Shaha Lubanna prayed for his ships safety..and GURU TEG BAHADUR ji came running to save it...BUT then in 1947 more than 5 LAKH sidkee Singhs.sikhs.daughters of sikhs...PRAYED and PRAYED..and jumped into wells..died fighting the rmapaging mobs..were killed defenceless..DIDNT even ONE ARDASS of their equal that of Makhan Shaha Lobanna ??
In June 1984..the Hundred Thousand DEVOTEES were Specifically in Harmandar sahib to do ARDASS for Sarbatt Da bhalla/Guur Arjun jis shahedee..YET Operation Bluestar happened and all of them DIED..were their ARDASSES not of a standard of lobanna's ??
THIS is becasue we are LOST to the FINAL TRUTH..TERA BHANNA MEETHA LAGGEH..as Guru Ji declared on the HOT PLATE !! the Final TRUTH.
The GURUS took 10 jammas..travelled 240 YEARS through TIME..so that WE DONT HAVE TO TRAVEL..we dotn have to take STEPS..1..2..3..4..5..to arrive at the FINAL TRUTH..Guur Ji has doen all that Preparatory work for US already....The FINAL TRUTH..the FINAL PRODUCT the SGGS is in a THAAL in front of us..to EAT..Khavo buncho !!!


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## harbansj24 (Sep 10, 2009)

Yes Gyani ji, the ultimate truth is with Akal Purakh. In our hands we have Ardas, Simran and Guru's Shabad. All incidents are truth of Akal Purakh. Even when sitting on Hot Plate Guru ji was reciting Shabad and was doing Simran. But we cannot be equal to the great Guru. We are much much lesser mortals and hence are highly falliable. So we need the crutches of  Gurmukh Sants to help us through trial and tribulations and face the truth with some degree of fortitude. SGGS recognises the need. Hence the several references to Sants in SGGS. 
 Needless to say Chardi Kalan is the state of mind and not entirely dependant on the situation of a person. And Chardi Kalan also enhances the abilties of the person. The finest examples being Khalsa of Guru Gobind Singh. 
So Sidikki Sikhs do Ardas more for being in Chardikalan than for anything else and also do Shukrana (Thanksgiving) for each 4 pehar (12 hrs of day or night) that has passed.  Very ordinary Sikhs (like me) require the the guidance of Gurmukh Sants to even understand (let alone interpret) Guru's Shabad correctly.


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 10, 2009)

Harbans ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:



> a Gurmukh or Sant (same thing) has reached a position from which he does not slide back.


 
I beg to differ with you. Perfection is only with Ik Ong Kaar. We humans are not perfect and the same goes for any Gurmukh or Sant, hence we are humans.

If a Gurmukh/Sant becomes perfect then Ik Ong Kaar does not need to be forgiving. His job is done, but the fact of the matter is that is not the case. This bar is even too high for a pole valuter to cross no matter how long or how flexible his/her pole is.

I would like to mention once again what I said in one of my other posts that a horse rider who claims to never have fallen off the horse has never ridden a horse.

If a Gurmukh/Sant becomes perfect then he/she does not have to do any Ardaas after doing paath ( Studying Gurbani) and ask for forgiveness for his/her mistakes.

It is more a utopic idea than a Sikhi one.

Any human no matter how high he or she has attained the spiritual level can not become perfect. Only Ik Ong Kaar is, which is worth repeating here. 

All of us fall down, it is part of the human nature. Gurbani gives us the tools how quick to get up, dust off and carry on and yes, with time and perseverance of using the tools given to us by SGGS, we will fall less, but we will still fall.

So, who is to say who is a Gurmukh and who is not? Only Ik Ong Kaar knows that. Yes, in our lives we like to meet people who can motivate us to breed goodness within with the help of Gurbani. The basic idea of Sikhi is that then,we as Sikhs- Gurmukhs would pass on the goodness to others what we have learnt.

Let me close by saying that if a Gurmukh/ Sant does not slide back then he/she stops being a Sikh which means a student, a learner and one can only be a learner or a student when one makes mistakes. That is the human nature. It is the law of the land established by Ik Ong Kaar.

Sikhi is not based on any utopia but on pragmatism. That is why other religions promise Heavens, 72 virgins etc. etc. 


Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 10, 2009)

Sikhi is not based on any utopia but on pragmatism. That is why other religions promise Heavens, 72 virgins etc. etc. ..............

EXACTLY and APTLY put Teji ji...

The Highway called GURMAT.....is straight and Narrow..sharper than the sharpest blade of the Khanda..thinner than the thinnest hair...no "promises" just plain hard work !!..Kirt karo, Waand chhako and Naam Jappo..no IFS and no Buts...no maybes..1429 angs of SGGS..same message. NANAK NEECH kaheh VICHAAR....:welcome:


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## harbansj24 (Sep 10, 2009)

Rigt Tejwant ji,

Everyone does slide back even a Gurmukh Sant. But the extent and reach is different.

 Persons like me oscillate from being a Manmukh, a Sanmukh and occasionally can only at the most reach the fringes of being a Gursikh. 

But Gurmukh is different. (Gurmukh rom rom Har dhiyaveh). When he reaches the position when every pore of his being is immersed in Simran, then can he slide back to being a Manmukh? At the most he can swing between Being a Gurmukh to Brahm Gyani. Obviously he would have passed through the stages of being a
 Manmukh, Sanmukh and a Gursikh. But having become Gurmukh Sant, his bar becomes much higher and he cannot tumble down to the level of Manmukh.

A Nobel Laurette Physicist can make make mistakes in higher postulates but he will never make mistakes in simple laws of gravity, although in his learning process he would have definitely passed through that stage.


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 10, 2009)

Harbans ji, 

Guru Fateh.

Your write:



> But Gurmukh is different. (Gurmukh rom rom Har dhiyaveh). When he reaches the position when every pore of his being is immersed in Simran, then can he slide back to being a Manmukh? At the most he can swing between Being a Gurmukh to Brahm Gyani. Obviously he would have passed through the stages of being a Manmukh, Sanmukh and a Gursikh. But having become Gurmukh Sant, his bar becomes much higher and he cannot tumble down to the level of Manmukh.



First of all, I am sorry to say that I have no ability to  know that nor do I have the capability to judge anyone how much he/she would slide back or not. All I am saying is that  we humans can not be perfect and especially we Sikhs- the students and the learners. That is why our Gurus gave this name to us. 

Only Ik Ong Kaar is perfect.

Secondly, I would like you to elaborate to me for my own understanding how would you define the two words Dhiyaveh and Simran ? Do they mean the same or differently and in what sense and what is the modus operandi for the both?

Thanks & Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## harbansj24 (Sep 11, 2009)

Tejwant Singh ji,

First of all I would like to remind myself, lest I get it into my silly head that whatever I am posting are my own thoughts, that I owe these to only my imperfect understanding of what Bhai Vir Singh has written. These in turn come from only from SGGS!

Yes only Ik Ong Kaar is perfect and mankind can never have the capability to grasp even  a fraction  of the greatness of it. Whereas the understanding of the qualities of a Gurmukh and Brahmgyani are within our grasp and that they can be our guides to Guru's Shabads.

Yes I have written about Har Dhiyaveh and Simran interchangeably because that is how I understood it. Maybe it is wrong.

The process of Simran is explained beautifully by Bhai Sahib in several places of his monumental works notably in Guru Nanak Chamatkar.

In a capsuled, imperfect and clumsy manner I can explain my understanding of it.

Simran can be done at any time irrespective of whatever you may busy with. There is no particular place of posture. You can just keep repeating Naam continuosly. Your mind may wander. No problem. You just just start doing it whenever you remember. It brings on in you  thoughts of the Creator. As you keep up this practice you will notice that it grows on you. And as it grows it starts the process of cleansing your soul. Then we start getting that feeling of Bliss or Chardikalan.

But being ordinary mortals living in real world we slide back. No problem. We do not leave this process of Simran. It is case of 2 steps forward and one step back. As Naam Simran grows on you you become a better and better human being. The ultimate stage will be when every pore of your being exudes Simran. This is the stage when a person becomes Gurmukh as defined by Bhai Gurdas "Gurmukh Rom Rom Har dhiyaveh".

The beauty of Simran is that it is completely secular. You need not use only Sikh terms. You can use the names used by other religions also for the supreme being.

There is a difference between empty meditation and Simran. SGGS does not prescribe empyt meditation. In this process you sit quietly in one place in a  particular asan and do nothing. Then you mind starts to wander and nothing happens. You find that you have just wasted your time and feel frustated. Where as Simran can be done anywhwere anytime and while you are anything. The name connects you with the Creator. At some time it becomes an automatic process.

This is how I have understood it. I suggest that you read at least Guru Nanak Chamatkar and I am sure all your questions wil be answered. And you being more intelligent than I am, I am sure that you will be able to interpret Bhai Sahib's writings much better than I have been able to do in this forum.

Gurfateh, regards and Chardi Kalan.

Harbans Singh


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 11, 2009)

harbansj24 said:


> Tejwant Singh ji,
> 
> First of all I would like to remind myself, lest I get it into my silly head that whatever I am posting are my own thoughts, that I owe these to only my imperfect understanding of what Bhai Vir Singh has written. These in turn come from only from SGGS!
> 
> ...



Harbans Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the lovely post and yes, I have read Nanak Chamatkar and enjoyed it very much.

First of all, let me make one thing clear, I am neither a  Sikh Scholar, Historian, intellect or a very intelligent person, nor do I intend or pretend to be either of these things.

I just like to think aloud with the cyber Sadh Sangat and this venue gives me the honour and the privilege to do that. And lastly I learn a lot from interaction with people like you and others.

We are all Sikhs here and we learn from each other.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## harpreetkooner (Jun 23, 2010)

I apologize if i m mistaken while writing.

I am not a scholar like you people not a great religious person. but because this is discussion about Dukhbhanjani sahab, i must share my experience. 
I never believe that by prayer or believe you can acheive something, i always believe that success only come by hardwork, determination and inteligence so i always beleive in myself not God. but when we (me n my husband) arrived australia, after passing five months with all our efforts and inteligence we could not get work, all money which we brought with us was finish. there was not a single ray of hope. Then i started believing may be i should ask God for help. I was having Gutka sahabs of Nitnem and duhbhanjni sahab. And then i started chanting this Shabad for'' MAYA DI PRAPTI LAYE'' LAKHMI TOT NA AAVE for 40 days 108 times a day in the morning before sunrise after ishnan. And then waheguru g blessed me and got job within those 40 days and my husband got very good job after completion of 40 days. And with waheguru g ki kirpa after that we never lack of money MAYA.

I dnt consider it miracle but believe. Because i never believe in God but when i started believing God blessed me and made my believe more stronger. whatsoever, it was only one shabad from Gurbani that changed our life. it does not matter who published it for what purpose, but the truth is it s the part of Great Gurbani.


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## Astroboy (Jun 2, 2016)

harpreetkooner said:


> I apologize if i m mistaken while writing.
> 
> I am not a scholar like you people not a great religious person. but because this is discussion about Dukhbhanjani sahab, i must share my experience.
> I never believe that by prayer or believe you can acheive something, i always believe that success only come by hardwork, determination and inteligence so i always beleive in myself not God. but when we (me n my husband) arrived australia, after passing five months with all our efforts and inteligence we could not get work, all money which we brought with us was finish. there was not a single ray of hope. Then i started believing may be i should ask God for help. I was having Gutka sahabs of Nitnem and duhbhanjni sahab. And then i started chanting this Shabad for'' MAYA DI PRAPTI LAYE'' LAKHMI TOT NA AAVE for 40 days 108 times a day in the morning before sunrise after ishnan. And then waheguru g blessed me and got job within those 40 days and my husband got very good job after completion of 40 days. And with waheguru g ki kirpa after that we never lack of money MAYA.
> ...



harpreetkooner Ji,

Gurfateh to you. 
Here's a link at SPN (click here *11*) which might be of further use to you. Starts from page 2 for all your Sharda Pooran choice of Shabads. The thread's name is 300 Saal Guru De Naal.

~namjap~


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## swarn bains (Oct 26, 2016)

sgpc should have control over these sikh shop keepers in bazaar mai seva, so that they do not further misguide the misguided and hurting people, otherwise it will continue like dasam granth. as dasam granth has been destroyed basically by these people so are they attempting to malign sggs for selling their books. thanks
 the above writing is very old writing. I do not know how it ended up on sikh philosophy network today.
by the way I have two books in front of me first one is gurbani sukh sagar ( dukh bhanjantera naam jee). It is written by sant baljinder singh  gurdwara karamsar  rara sahib. He started an association called dukh bhanjan tera naam jee. He has taken stanzas from SGGS and
those stanzas are repeated again and again and he or his followers claim that your pains and suffering will be eradicated by reciting this path. how I ended up with these books. This association is quite a bit involved in Toronto. They recite this path in four gurdwaras daily. I happened to listen to them one day and they were asking for translation of these books in English. I offered and they came and gave me 2 cds and two book and asked if I could translate them. I translated one book and sent it back to them and requested if they want any changes. it is about three months and i have not heard from them. i called them a few times as well but no real answer.
the 2nd book  called dukh bhanjan tera naam jee is written by one of his followers and he is the head of this association in Toronto and recites it at many gurdwaras in the area. His name is Jagpal singh. he says that he is cured of some sickness which was incurable before.  I did not translate this book yet. I am still waiting for their reply but I feel it is not coming. the second book is very close to the first one. I do not know the results and i am not interested to follow what they say. what is written in the book is quite different than what they speak in the gurdwara.


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