# Sikhism And Science



## Arvind (Mar 2, 2005)

Dear Friends,

Though initially I thought of starting a thread on 'Science and Religion', but then the idea changed. Just curious to know what Tukks (with page number) of Guru Granth Sahib ji had revealed the modern science concepts way back.

Would like to include political science into this thread as well.

Currently, I dont know many tukks, so cant contribute, and look forward to sangat's participation.

A few examples:

1. Sikhism is basically a religion of action and human freedom. 
2. Sikhism is based on democracy instituted by Guru Gobind Singh at the time of starting the baptismal ceremony. He also demonstrated that his five democrats had the authority to order even him - the Guru. 
3. Sikhism seeks social equality through its philosophy of a classless and casteless society and its institution of the Langar. 
4. "There are millions of moons and suns and many solar systems like ours" 
5. "Na kichh aibo na jaibo, Ram ki dohai re"  - law of indestructibility of matter and energy in our modern science. 
6. "Jo brahmande soi pinde" "Whatever is in the universe, is in the matter." 

Looking for backup support to realize that Modern Science is therefore complementary to Sikhism and is in no way opposed to it.

Best Regards, Arvind.


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## Sher Singh (Apr 21, 2005)

Arvind Bhai Ji, i got this information from www.realsikhism.com i hope it helps.

Sikhs do not disagree with science, as it does not conflict with Sikh Scriptures or beliefs. In fact scientists are just now discovering the concepts that were written in Sikh scriptures centuries ago. Sikh Gurus told Sikhs not to smoke, do drugs or drink alcohol centuries ago. Scientists confirm that drinking alcohol, smoking and consuming drugs have harmful effects on the body. 

Sikhism beliefs have not been disproven by science. Scientific facts support the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib. Guru Granth Sahib states that, “_There are planets, solar systems and galaxies. If one speaks of them, there is no limit, no end. There are worlds upon worlds of His Creation. As He commands, so they exist. He watches over all, and contemplating the creation, He rejoices. Nanak says, to describe this is as hard as steel!_” (Guru Granth Sahib, 8). Furthermore, it is stated that God created the whole universe including the earth. “_You Yourself created the earth, and the two lamps of the sun and the moon_” (Guru Granth Sahib, 83). And, “_Many millions are the moons, suns and stars_” (Guru Granth Sahib, 275).   

 Scientists have found that there are billions of galaxies, each galaxy containing billions of starts and millions of planets revolving around those stars with millions of moons revolving around those planets. Our galaxy, the Milky Way, has approximately 200 billions stars and millions of planets from which few are known. There are billions of galaxies like ours in the universe and this is just now being realized by modern science, where as Sikh Scripture mentioned it long before its discovery. 

Scientists are slowly attempting to unravel the creation of God but the whole creation is beyond what humans can explore. Our Universe is so vast that it takes millions of years to travel to stars and planets beyond our solar system. For example, a star name 51 Pegasi in Pegasus constellation has three planets revolving around it (known so far). 51 Pegasi is 50 light years away from the Earth. A light year is a distance traveled by light in one year at the speed of 180,000 miles/sec. 51 Pegasi is approximately 300 trillion miles from the Earth. Light takes 50 years to reach the Earth from 51 Pegasi. Today’s fastest probe will take about half a million years to reach there. However 51 Pegasi is considered very close in relation to other stars. There are stars in our galaxy that are thousands of light years away from the Earth. In addition, the nearest galaxy, Andromeda is 2 million light years away. Traveling at 180,000 miles/sec lights will take two million years to reach Andromeda. If it takes half a million year to cover the distance of 50 light years with modern technology, one should imaging how long will it take to cover the distance of 2 million light years. Andromeda is the just the nearest galaxy, there are galaxies billions of billions light years away from ours. 

Scientists study the creation of God and try to comprehend the mysteries of His creation. The more they learn, the more they are amazed. Some spend their entire life studying God’s creation and yet they are unable to find His limits. However, when one meditates on God, God Himself unfolds the mysteries and shows the galaxies, the stars, the deep ocean world and all of his creation.

For anymore information, or FAQ's i insist you go to www.realsikhism.com , i think it has a great amount of information!!!


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## sikh809 (Aug 22, 2008)

I think this is a late reply, but I found the following site...
Home (skepticsikh)

and it had an interesting article on this...
I pretty much agree with his outlook, and the only reason I post here is because he actually used the same realsikhism page but came to a different conclusion...


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## Sinister (Aug 22, 2008)

*Sher Singh ji*

I know this isnt your work but from a site...let me respond to it.

response:
I beg you all to stay clear of relating Sikhism to science 

_The two dont have anything in common...the fact that they agree superfiscially is a fact of convenience rather than a fact of divine cosmic revelation._

We should stay away from comparing apples to oranges…. There is truth in both. One tries to reveal a moral truth the other a material/behavioural truth. 




Sher Singh said:


> Sikhs do not disagree with science, as it does not conflict with Sikh Scriptures or beliefs.


 
considering science is fluid...what will you do when science starts to oppose Sikh Scripture?...should we abandon sikh philosophy then? or desparately try to refute that science (note: if we desparately try to refute it...we are no longer conducting scientific analysis)

*so, Although Sikhism may superfiscially agree with science based knowledge today (as christianity did a couple hundred years ago)...it should not be the basis for the verfication of the existence of divinity.* (however if you wish to do it for amusement ...then by all means continue)



Sher Singh said:


> In fact scientists are just now discovering the concepts that were written in Sikh scriptures centuries ago. Sikh Gurus told Sikhs not to smoke, do drugs or drink alcohol centuries ago. Scientists confirm that drinking alcohol, smoking and consuming drugs have harmful effects on the body.


 
:hmm: ... we all take drugs...harmful and beneficial at times (ask your physician which ones you need :shifty

and scientists have just shown that consuming alcohol in moderation reduces the probability of heart disease and cancer.

does this negate sikhi or the message? NO it doesn't



Sher Singh said:


> Sikhism beliefs have not been disproven by science. Scientific facts support the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib. Guru Granth Sahib states that, “_There are planets, solar systems and galaxies. If one speaks of them, there is no limit, no end. There are worlds upon worlds of His Creation. As He commands, so they exist. He watches over all, and contemplating the creation, He rejoices. Nanak says, to describe this is as hard as steel!_” (Guru Granth Sahib, 8). Furthermore, it is stated that God created the whole universe including the earth. “_You Yourself created the earth, and the two lamps of the sun and the moon_” (Guru Granth Sahib, 83). And, “_Many millions are the moons, suns and stars_” (Guru Granth Sahib, 275).


 
this knowledge existed long before the guru's stated it. 

http://www.sikhism.us/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/16979-quantum-physics-science-and-sikhism.html


PS: I enjoyed the post by Sikh809 (the skeptic Sikh Essay)...cant say I disagree with him/her.




*Dear Arvind ji*

Theoretically Matter can be destroyed with Anti-Matter...producing large amounts of energy

can the law of conservation of energy be breached according to quantum physics and special relativity:
http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae605.cfm
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/energy_gr.html

(theoretically, according to science conservation of mass and energy (mass=E/C^1/2) can be violated but never beyond the limits of uncertainty)...Heisenberg Uncertainty principle 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle

"Na kichh aibo na jaibo, Ram ki dohai re"

is it therefore refuted? or does this poetic line mean something else?
or are we going to stick by its dependance on the laws of conservation of mass and conservation of energy....while quantum physicists refute it.

religion and science are not soluble...designed by two causes but for the same purpose (service to humanity) 
Religion deals with certainties
Science with Probabilities


cheers


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## BhagatSingh (Aug 22, 2008)

Sinister said:


> considering science is fluid...what will you do when science starts to oppose Sikh Scripture?...should we abandon sikh philosophy then? or desparately try to refute that science (note: if we desparately try to refute it...we are no longer conducting scientific analysis)


No find a philosophy that agrees with science and follow that.
Then there is always twisting of scriptures to match science but I am sure Sikhs won't do that. :shifty:


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## pk70 (Aug 22, 2008)

There is truth in both. One tries to reveal a moral truth the other a material/behavioural truth. (quote sinister ji)

*PLEASE PONDER OVER IT, TWO FACETS OF TRUTH COULD BE UNDERSTOOD BY JUST TAKING IT SERIOUSLY, RESTS ARE EFFORTS TO KNOW WHAT CANNOT BE KNOWN; ONE NEEDS ALL SENSES, THE OTHER ONE IS BEYOND THEM. :happy:
*


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## Archived_Member4 (Aug 30, 2008)

> considering *science* is fluid...what will you do when *science* starts to oppose Sikh Scripture?...should we abandon Sikh philosophy then?


 
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji will never be opposed by science which cannot even explain why we exist. Now this is real doubt in Guru ji.



> *so, Although **Sikhism** may superfiscially agree with science based knowledge today (as christianity did a couple hundred years ago)...it should not be the basis for the verfication of the existence of divinity.* (however if you wish to do it for amusement ...then by all means continue)


 
Its the other way around science agrees with Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.


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## Archived_Member4 (Aug 30, 2008)

> we all take drugs...harmful and beneficial at times (ask your physician which ones you need :shifty
> 
> and scientists have just shown that consuming alcohol in moderation reduces the probability of heart disease and cancer.
> 
> does this negate Sikhi or the message? NO it doesn't


 
Just give this one time, in a couple of years scienctist will be finding out that they were wrong.


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## Archived_Member5 (Aug 31, 2008)

This undue exaltation of Science discloses a complete lack of understanding by those seeking to laud its merits.

Science, Religion and Philosophy are paths of learning and study in pursuit of truth and knowledge toward the gaining of spiritual release and awakening and self awareness.

Science is a study tool of given logistics towards an understanding of man and the world and his role and control of it. He who conquers his c=mind conquers the universal thereby. 

The only Philosophers, Scientist or Messiah’s gaining truth will be those who combine all three schools and paths of knowledge and wisdom into one cognised quantum understanding.

Political pressure to undermine God and religion seeks to divert the public’s attention and focus towards Science, a novice like malleable tool as yet unable to conclusively prove anything. It is a faddish fashion, to be taken and considered as such.

Respectfully, 

Ms. Jeeti Johal.


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## Archived_Member5 (Aug 31, 2008)

Sikh Scriptures are based and founded upon philosphy and wisdom, the statute and doctrines of this wisdom are what Science endeavours to quantify and prove.


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## Canuck Singh (Sep 1, 2008)

Does anyone really have a monopoly over Truth? Or are there just monopolies over mindless human ego's, and the confusion of the masses via misleading concepts of the reality.


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## Archived_Member5 (Sep 1, 2008)

Waheguru is Absolute Truth. He who created the universe and laid all matter in place knows intuitively the causes and factors behind each driving force.

Science seeks to find the atoms, define the reactors, and identify the prompters driving the mind, society and universe. Why certain chemicals cause stipulated reactions in the body, behavior or atmosphere. Science seeks to identify and delineate the path to the pure and sacred truth. 

Most religions hold similar values, the manner those principles and precepts are formed, fashioned and defined defines the distinction between religions. The objective and end is social cohesion, order and the triumphing of man over his mind and environment towards control and mastery of his will and senses. Not all religions dictate this as some have vested interests in retaining the patronage of the congregation for motives other than the salvation of their moral and spiritual being. It is these underlying determinators distorting truth and creating controversy.

Philosophy is the explanation of truths and clarifying understanding to tenets and metaphysical laws. classification of applied measures into formation of truths leading to understanding and reason. 

As you can see the three are aspects manifesting a path towards a one end goal

Jeeti Johal ...


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