# Sikhs Today



## CaramelChocolate (Jun 19, 2005)

Time for another rant on the negative aspect of Sikhs today... It is shocking how some Sikhs go on about the vice of lust, but others such as anger or ego are given much less importance. Take for example this £16m Gurudwara in London. http://www.sgsss.org/ . There is a wall with golden colour plasques in there of the families who donated most generously - this is outrageous! Not too mention the debt this Gurudwara is in and is ADVERTISING rug companies etc. to pay of the loan.

http://www.karamsar.co.uk/ and take ths Gurudwara, all carved stone on the outside and completely white plain walls on the inside... I told someone what this shows Sikhs today are like - nice and showy on the outside, plain and bare on the inside. But blah, I guess this is a problem in ALL religions today..


----------



## Amerikaur (Jun 19, 2005)

I'm going to brace myself for criticism about being too American or too capitalist or too something-or-other.

I understand that blending religion and business is rather volatile...but I personally don't see an issue with it, the way these folks are doing it.   

I'd love it if more U.S. gurdwaras sent sevadar(ni)s in to the buiness world to forge more relationships.  I'd love for a carpet store to be able to say "We installed the carpets at the Sikh Gurdwara in the next town..." and have the customers wonder what a Sikh gurdwara is...perhaps even enough to google "Sikh" on the internet or even peer in to a gurdwara for themselves.

I think it would be really cool to have sevadars try to coordinate corporate sponsorships, especially meeting with local business owners.  If the nearby proprietors don't know what Sikhism is, they may learn quickly. 

My metropolitan area recently saw a large house of worship built for a faith that is also not very well known in these parts.   That building being built (including the zoning disputes, etc.) brought a lot of attention to the faith, and even identified some residents such as business owners and a local politician that was of that faith. 

I'd love to see a Sikh gurdwara get a similar kind of attention...personally, I think these events help foster some kind of education among our non-Sikh neighbors.  

Distinctions such as caste in gurdwaras really bother me.   Business dealings, as long as they are on the up-and-up, don't bother me.


----------



## CaramelChocolate (Jun 19, 2005)

Amerikaur I agree with most of your post and the caste thing winds me up as well [even as a non-sikh]. But I think you misunderstood my point... the Gurudwara has hugde debts since the Gurudwara cost about £16m... not to mention the price of the GOLD dome which was £4m itself... they have circular RUGS in the marble floor areas before you enter the main hall which is carpeted which are advertising a rug-world which is advertising, they are obviously doing this to get rid of debt. Also, on a free picture of the Gurudwara that you can get, they are advertising a punjab market, which I also assume is to get rid of the huge debt they have.


----------



## Amerikaur (Jun 19, 2005)

CaramelChocolate ji,

You are right, I did misunderstand.  My apologies about that.   

I can see now where you are showing that the gurdwara is not "living within it's means" and as a result has to take on some advertising that is a bit excessive to pay for the indulgence.

That I can see.   I don't really have an issue with an attention-getting gurdwara, because I think there is constructive use to that as well...but at the same time, it's a gurdwara, not a football stadium...and there should be some concern paid as to how the gurdwara will get it's money to pay for all of it.  "Guru Nanak Darbar Sahib sponsored by Carpet Warehouse" may sound ludicrous...but, cash-starved organizations do ludicrous things.

This post brought to you by Grocer-E-Panjab.  For all your Langar needs, call Grocer-E-Panjab. (Just kidding...)


----------



## GushK (Jun 20, 2005)

I noticed the advertising too and was quite upset.

It's one thing for a company to advertise on their own premisis/adverts etc. that they installed rugs in the gurdwara. 
It's another thing to use the gurdwara as promotional ground.

Bringing business too much into the gurdwara, I think, would be too much of a conflict of interest.
One is focused on profit, the other on seva. It's easy to see the slippery slope of it being that much easier for business people to bribe committee members for favours and contracts, working towards their own goals and not those of the Sangat.

On another point. this Gurdwara is in the heart of Southall, with no lack of Sangat or Golak money...just a lack of ethics about who gets to  dip their hand into the cash and what it gets used for...


----------



## CaramelChocolate (Jun 21, 2005)

GushK said:
			
		

> On another point. this Gurdwara is in the heart of Southall, with no lack of Sangat or Golak money...just a lack of ethics about who gets to dip their hand into the cash and what it gets used for...


 
Nope! this Gurudwara is in serious debt... at the back of the hall where SGGS is kept there are two peopke who are asking for money to pay of the loans for the Gurudwara!! They are actually in serious debt..


----------



## 21khalsa13 (Jun 22, 2005)

as gurdas maan says

build all the houses of worship at leisure
but first rebuild the houses and familys that have been destryed by your hate and ignorance.

if peoples want great a gurudwara. 
build the foundation stone in your heart
and let your body/mind/spirit be the vessel that takes you towards the guru. 
guru dwara.


----------



## S|kH (Jun 22, 2005)

lol, I love how we can build a 16 million pound gurdwara, and then later abandon it, and re-build another few million pound gurdwara down the street.

Apparently some Jatha is building a new "golden temple" of all gold-plated walls and such in India...just what we need, lets build more gurdwaras while we die on the street. Atleast then, when an earthquake or some sort of disease hits Punjab, we can say "Look at our Faith! Our Temples survived, thats such a miracle!"

It's all ego. Although the advertising in a gurdwara seems like a good idea, I gurantee it'll get switched to a bad one really quickly if ever used. 

I remember seeing an Islamic town completely bulldozed down, and dead bodies lying everywhere but a Mosque was standing up, and my muslim friend told me..."Look at that, the Mosque remains, what a miracle"...and I said really? Look how much money you put into the structure of that, you could probably moved some families out of the town before the disaster happened, perhaps even re-inforce everyones house in that town for the amount of money spent on that mosque. Why not spend money on education now, rather than build a "2nd Golden Temple". Completely ridiculous. Think about what the WORLD will think of us. They think Sikhs...Golden Temple, that's cool. Now there going to think...Sikhs = multiple GOLDEN temples..wow, these guys really like to flaunt their money.

But anyways, yeah I get {censored}ed off about the same deal.
Specially how they announce the peoples names of who donated money. They should quit that...you want to donate, go ahead, but no recognition for any of it. 

Way too off-topic, sorry.


----------



## truthseeker (Jun 22, 2005)

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!

The way i see it is that, ya its great to have a huge gurdwara that looks nice. But WHO CARES what a gurdwara looks like from the outside, i strongly believe that a gurdwara is kept strong by the people within it. IF the sadhsangat only wants to build a gurdwara soo that they can have their names all over it to make them look good then that is just horrible. Im sure that Guru ji is looking down on us right now saying " look at all the money wasted on such useless things" We could use the money to feed poor pepole on the streets instead of building another Gurdwara that most people will only go to once or twice a year. 

And about the advertising thing, that i think is pretty wrong. When you do something u should not expect to get a big THANK YOU or expect to receive something in return. You should do it from the  goodness of your heart. specailly if u are doing it for the Gurdwara. If you do something good because u want to GUru ji will respect u for that. But if u do something just so that u can be recgonzied for it Guru ji will be disappointed in it. 

Bhull chuk Maaf.


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 23, 2005)

Malaysian Sikhs are not far behind either..Here in our very own KUALA LUMPUR we have the LARGEST GURDWARA in SOUTH EAST ASIA.... and also the LARGEST DEBT that this gurdwara is struggling to pay off...even with  a large commercial complex helping it out through rentals and car park collections ++ golak etc..they still have to arrange fund raising dinners and stuff to get money..

We Sikhs are forgetting the BASIC ECONOMICS..the WISE dont spendf beyond theri emans..Chadar wekh ke lattan pasaro goes an old Punjabi proverb...BUT then we are not "old" Punjabis but MODERN PUNJABIS..who thrive on Credit cards, loans, borrowing, share financing...and going BANKRUPT is a status symbol !!!

Jarnail Singh Gyani Arshi


----------



## Arvind (Jun 23, 2005)

Gurudwara committee members are playing very irresponsible role then. Why do go beyond means, when one cant serve it! And these debts are becoming more and more frequent occurings. I remember Vishwajeet's cartoon, where he portrayed an archaelogist (in 3000 AD) holding a magnifying lens looking at debris and claiming - Looks like Sikhs 1000 years ago, used to pray to marble. What a slap!


----------

