# "RAM" Act Fatwa



## Archived_Member16 (Mar 8, 2007)

*The Real Face of Badal and the Akalis *​*Wednesday 7th of March 2007 *
*Panthic Weekly News Bureau *​

Amritsar (KP) - After winning the elections in Punjab, Parkash Badal, the anti-Panthic leader of the so-called Shiromani Akali Dal has kept himself busy visiting his favorite deras and cults, and personally thanked his real 'masters' for thier valuable votes in the recent elections. 

*'Ram' Act Fatwa*

Furthermore, his BJP cabinet minister Tikshan Sood, showed his true colors when he announced that a new 'Ram' act would be introduced in Punjab that would make it mandatory for every individual in Punjab to recite the name of Hindu diety 'Ram'. Sood's remarks, which came only days after his inaugural, offended the Sikh community and raised an alarm about the real intent of the BJP/Akali combine. Sikhs are monotheistic and worship only one God. They openly reject the worship of Hindu dieties, and any personified idols. 


Sikhs organizations including Shiromani Akali Dal Amritsar, the Delhi Sikh Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee, quickly criticized Sood's 'fatwa' and warned of serious consequences if anyone attempted to force a pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) agenda on Sikhs and other non-Hindu minorities in Punjab.




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## kaur-1 (Mar 8, 2007)

Well, Khalsa Force, Teyari Karo, get ready, pratice Gatka etc, recite Gurbani, live Gurbani, Naam jap.

We need Waheguroo's support BIG TIME!


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## Archived_Member_19 (Mar 12, 2007)

if its true...should be an eye opener for Akali supporters..

Akalis....the panthic leaders,,,,..hahahaha


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## badmash (Mar 15, 2007)

The time for learning is gone. Our people were screwed every since Bluestar and stoogies since that time. As for eye openers, what about lack of any tough sikh youth left?


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## spnadmin (Mar 15, 2007)

Wahe ji

I have been following this story on Sikhnet for several weeks. How can one make heads or tails of it?  It is difficult, probably, if a person doesn't have deep contextual understanding of all the many groups involved to be able to get to the bottom of what is going on. In fact, it appears, and I say this with genuine curiosity and not with disrepsect, that there are no "good guys".

What is the best way to unravel this puzzle?


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## badmash (Mar 15, 2007)

It actually is not very complex at all.
In 1947 the Sikhs were offered a state of their own, a "Khalistan" incorporating parts of punjab and sindh, but this was never seriously considered by the Sikh leadership, and Sikhs always felt a kinship with the Hindus against the Muslims, their historical oppressors.

After Independence, most states in India were determined linguistically while the Punjabi Sikhs never got serious attention from the government for their desire for an officially punjabi speaking state. In the 1960s this resulted in the creation of a Punjabi Subha, and cleaved Punjab further into a small fraction of its former self, the reason being that Hindus refused to acknowledge Punjabi as their language and generally chose Hindi.

Interwoven within this is the issue of economics, ethnicity and relgion and language. The sikhs, despite all their sacrifices (real, not imagined) historically, during the world wars, during the "Ghadar" movement, anti India movement, Indian National Army and gross over representation in the Indian army during the wars of 1947, 1965 and 1971, felt cheated and insulted by the lack of addressment of their issues on economic development, water rights and language. 

These issues culminated in the ascendence of Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale during the 1980s, and resulted in the eventual tragedy of Operation Bluestar, in which scores of Gurudwara and thousands upon thousands of untold Sikhs were killed, their true numbers to be never known. It is estimated that 5000 civilians alone were killed at Amritsar on the event of Operation Bluestar.

Now in the Punjab, there is massive uncontrolled immigration of migrant labor for the last 25 years, unchecked by successive Indian and Punajabi goverments, who are not in the least concerned about Sikh culture, religion, or in reducing the impact of Hinduism or Christian evangelicalism in the Punjab.

So.......when an issue like this arises, what are Sikhs to do? Our leaders are idiots, our intelligentia paralyzed by analysis and our militants killed off in the 1980s and 1990s and our youth apathetic, fat, on drugs and hooked on MTV and satellite TV. We are, in a polite word, screwed. I say we just start reciting Ram all each and every one of us, and get the defeat over with.


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## spnadmin (Mar 15, 2007)

Badmash ji

Thank you for putting a large part of the puzzle together. I had the pieces but was stymied trying to see how they fit.

The current news elements are still hazy for me. You have described what sounds like fragmentation and a resulting breakdown of Sikh cultural, religious, social and economic structures and institutions in the Punjab and throughout India as well.

Where I am still unclear: the many stories before, during and immediately following the recent elections. The sitting party lost a lot of seats, and it seemed that incumbent Sikh leaders lost their official grip on levers of power. The BAD (not the word "bad") reform coalition and its constituencies are now being criticized two weeks after the election, mostly for their identification with deeras and local gurdwaras that, at least according to the media, undermine broader and inclusive Sikh themes and values. Several deeras have been associated with egomaniacal spiritual leaders. There is then also the oft'times controversial leadership of the Jathedar at Akal Takhat. The governing and administrative committees in Amritsar and Delhi are also accused of conflicts of interest and vested political power, and their failure to be responsive to broader Sikh interests (economic, spiritual and political). And so, you can see why someone state-side (like me) would have a problem putting all of this into perspective. Or even getting it half-way right!

And are the rapid-fire economic development of India at large, and the ensuing values of entrepreneurship and competitive markets (e.g., development of prime real estate in the Punjab), also contributing to what looks like a breakdown of Sikh social traditions, leaving very little of meaning to fill the void?

Now if I sound way off-base, it is because I don't have the contextual experiences I need to fully grasp the implications of what I read. But your explanation is thought-provoking. 

And yes, Kaur1, prayer not Ram is needed. As a matter of human failing, we are lost at sea and cannot find the shore.

Respectfully


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## badmash (Mar 15, 2007)

Your knowledge is to be commended, as most people abroad have little desire to look into the morass. The main thing, to me, is that the depravity of Indian culture, and moreso its politicians, are very hard for westerners to gauge and even comprehend. The ability of Indian/Sikh politicians to mislead, lie, deceive, cheat, and steal is truly beyond the scope and conceptualism of modern western society. It truly falls into criminality, one conjoined by the police, judiciary and general population. It is well known in India that decent people and honest people do not survive in politics. That is all one needs to know. This effects all levels of society, government and religious institutions obviously. A sad, sad state of affairs. But as they say, you get the government you elect, and after all it does truly represent the people themselves to some degree.


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## spnadmin (Mar 15, 2007)

Thanks Badmash ji for taking your analysis a step forward, as it helps. 

Having a western perspective, and coming to this information later in adulthood, puts my ability to understand outside of personal experience. 

At the risk of sounding way off on a spiritual plane that has nothing whatsoever with the actual lives of real people, I have only this to add.

The hukams again and again describe the morass you speak of in dozens of different ways as the "blight" of human existence, with Sikhs no more and no less likely than anyone else to contribute to the misery of their own condition. The difference is that the legacy of Nanak and gurus that followed paints a better alternative. And unlike many other religions one doesn't have to die to realize this better state of being. To forsake one's heritage is always sad.

Goodness however can be found in many individuals. I cannot help thinking that India's loss is our gain because so many individuals of great piety and character have come to the US and Canada.

Respectfully


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## badmash (Mar 15, 2007)

Actually, you have hit on two things very interesting, that of both respecting heritage and indeed the positive and negative aspects of the "diaspora" of Indians in general. But they are Phd. thesis issues each.


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## Sikh Namdhari (Mar 26, 2007)

I am so shocked at the calibre of debate happening here. 
All of you guys and girls are so full of your own holier than thou ******** it makes one sick. 

This profound paranoia that everyone in India, or anywhere else, who has a different perspective, on what it means to be a Sikh, to your own is somehow out to 'destroy Sikhi'. 

Despite Parkash Singh Badals failings (I have yet to find out what these are, other than his desire to bring together all the different sections of society- some may call them cults) he is a leader who has been elected by the people of Punjab. Not only that he is a political leader as well as being head of a religious organisation. 

The Akalis as well as the Singh Sabha were staunch enemies of the Namdharis, somewhat like my brothers and sisters on these sites. Today due to the hard work of MANY enlightened individuals on ALL sides of Indian society, these groups are having dialogues are finding ways to amalgamte into a cohesive society that prides itself on it's diversity.

But I am so shocked to see the hate propoganda that exists amongst the general Sikh youth in the UK, USA and Canada. How many of you vocal 'God's gift to Sikhism' are going to go to India, or should I say Khalistan and live there? 

All of the troubles that exist in India are caused by you do-gooders. Your incessant propoganda machine churns out stench filled hatred over and over again, for the land that gave birth not only to our Gurus and Sadhus, but to your parents. 

You learn to read Gurbani from inept scholars who teach it to you with distorted meanings and you, without thinking for yourselves repeat the same things like parrots. Step back and look at yourselves and what you say.

How familiar is your verbiage to clans like the KU KLUX, White supremists, National Front, the British National Party, the Nazis.

All of these cults repeat the same **** of being under threat from other communities, when in fact, it is they who are going out of their way to attack others using this feeble excuse to forward their own lies.

I posted a few articles in response to threads being discussed on this site. Immediately, I was attacked by two young ladies who strut around as they are prophets who know everything there is to know about Sikhi. I wonder what their reaction would have been if I had come here under some other name?

All of the views I have expressed on these forums are views on Sikhi that have been untarnished by the Singh Sabha movement, whose thinking was and is greatly influenced by Western European thought. 

.. And first there was the WORD is a passage out of Biblical text. 

To believe that your Guru is not to be distinguished different from God is an ancient Sanatan concept that comes down to us from time immemorial. The concept of Karam and 840,000 lives the soul has to migrate through was not invented by Guru Nanak Devji. Recitation of Naam was not invented by Guru Nanak Devji. These are concepts that were taught by God in the oldest language known to Mankind in the OLDEST scriptures known to mankind.

Guru Nanak Devji came to this Earth in this Kalyug age (again a Vedic concept) to refresh Mankind's memory about it's origins and truth of Dharam. That Dharam which exists since the dawn of creation. The Dharam that has it's origins in the Land we call Bharat. 

Have shame when you speak of this holy land with venom in your minds. Bow your heads in honour when you speak of this land.


if any one expresses any opinion that even slightly challenges your views you come out with all your guns blazing.


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Mar 29, 2007)

Sikh Namdhari said:


> I am so shocked at the calibre of debate happening here.
> All of you guys and girls are so full of your own holier than thou ******** it makes one sick.
> 
> This profound paranoia that everyone in India, or anywhere else, who has a different perspective, on what it means to be a Sikh, to your own is somehow out to 'destroy Sikhi'.
> ...



Great namdhari veer ji
badi vadiya gala likhiya tusi
Gurufateh


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## badmash (Mar 29, 2007)

Yes, but of all faiths, we most of all are in need of some with real feeling. 
Also, please kindly inform me of what dream you live in, if you are not aware of the nature of Indian and Punjabi politics. To claim a deficiency of the failings of Badal, for that matter of any leader in Punjab itself today and then to say that he is an elected leader, and head of a political organization!!! That is like saying Al Capone was merely the chairman of a business consortium!

That is really funny. I had to laugh at that. Do you really believe he (badal) is a respectable, honest, decent man? Do you really believe or think he is not corrupt, not antithetical to Sikhism in action, concept, and speech? Do you really think the people of Punjab deserve democracy or are capable of self rule? Do you think he(badal) is religious in any way? Have you lived in Punjab?



Sincerely


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Mar 29, 2007)

I appreciated the talks he did after Politics, the line that is SAYING US, CANADA, UK etc.
after onwards i admired him,
because politics has nothing to do with religion, they are in gurudwaras/mandirs only for votes.
thats why they behave as religious.

Please reply to the things that our brother Namdhari wrote after politics

Thanks in advance
Gurufateh


badmash said:


> Yes, but of all faiths, we most of all are in need of some with real feeling.
> Also, please kindly inform me of what dream you live in, if you are not aware of the nature of Indian and Punjabi politics. To claim a deficiency of the failings of Badal, for that matter of any leader in Punjab itself today and then to say that he is an elected leader, and head of a political organization!!! That is like saying Al Capone was merely the chairman of a business consortium!
> 
> That is really funny. I had to laugh at that. Do you really believe he (badal) is a respectable, honest, decent man? Do you really believe or think he is not corrupt, not antithetical to Sikhism in action, concept, and speech? Do you really think the people of Punjab deserve democracy or are capable of self rule? Do you think he(badal) is religious in any way? Have you lived in Punjab?
> ...


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## badmash (Mar 29, 2007)

After politics.....not sure what to say. You cannot have both, both the bias and pride and open mindedness. You cannot be the sacrificial lamb and executioner at the same time. I do not mind the more intolerant among us sikhs, they are few and far between. If they are unwilling to comprimise, good for them! If they feel strongly the sikhs in India are letting Sikhi down, they are correct. If they judge too harshly or condemn too strongly, so be it, at least they feel the tragedy of loss of our fragile culture.

As for the dharam stuff, I am different of mindset than most. I do not believe it is the Hindu ethos of Dharma, Nam and spiritual enlightenment which made sikhism unique. It is its punjabi roots, language and the toughness, grit, poverty and apathy towards mortality of the old Sikhs that I admire. This is now gone, gone with prosperity, affluence, acceptance and amnesia. Yes, India is synonymous with Dharam, and look at its squalor, filth, corruption, depravity and lies. Useless. We are now the same as well in Punjab. At one or more points in the past, we had the opportunities to follow  a different road, or perhaps not. But now we are just like the rest of Hindustan, and dharam will not help us except perhaps to glaze over our eyes and veil our hearts from the rot in front of us.


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## Sikh Namdhari (Mar 29, 2007)

For a country as vast and diverse as India, which has been in the shackles of enslavement first by the Mogul empire and then the British, I think they have done pretty well thus far. Of course there is corruption. You would expect that in an enviornment such as has been created through poverty over a broad spectrum. No one in India of any profession was being paid their true worth until recently, so bribery was a good way of making up the shortfall. Not that I am justifying the status quo. But one shouldn't underestimate the deriding effects of poverty on the individual or on society. 

I think the country will rise above it, if it and it's people are allowed to, without destructive forces from outside undermining the efforts of those good people who want to make it happen. 

Touching on 'Ram Fatwa', all I can say is:

*Koun ko kalank rahio, Ram Naam laeth hee*
*Pathith pavith bhei Ram kahath hee..*  (Todhi Naamdevji. Page 718 Aadh Guru Granth Sahib)


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Mar 31, 2007)

> We are, in a polite word, screwed. I say we just start reciting Ram all each and every one of us, and get the defeat over with.


 
Why not join the resistence and lend your strength? The Sikh Liberation Movement in all its forms of protest is never going to die. There is no more Sant Ji Bhindranwale. No more Shaheed Bhai Sukhdev Singh Babbar Ji. There's just us. Just take a look at the names of the groups opposing this corruption. Some are the same groups that opposed corruption in 1978, and 1984. They are still protesting, even though they have bled so much. Why should we give up like a miserable coward to preserve our meaningless life? Give your whole life meaning, get active. Be involved. Give support to Gurmat organizations opposed to the disintegration of Sikhi. Purify yourself from within and become a Gursikh. You can become that.

What is happening in the Punjab now has an international camera and an international audience. The diaspora is strong. It is already making movies about injustices, making million dollar businesses and casting votes in influential countries like United States, Canada, Britain. If India tries to start another wave of assaults on Sikhs, it will be the end of the Indian Government. It will collapse from its own stupidity. If trouble starts up again, I assure you many thousands of diaspora with influential citizenships will go to Punjab and be willing to die for Sikhi. It won't be just an isolated minority without a voice ever again. 

And at some point, the whole world and even India will sicken of all this killing, corruption and injustice. In 1984, there really wasn't representation or strong voice of Sikhs in these western countries to be heard. It is different today. We have the power to make it end. We have the power to live strong and die strong. We have the power and the technological means to speak out loudly for the rights of human beings. Let this generation do ardaas for shaheed and stand firm without fear in Gursikhi. Let this generation be the voice that was silenced in the past. Are we not the same soul? Be Khalsa.

Don't whimper like a child over defeats. This war will last for the entire era of Kaliyug. Do ardaas for the strength and willingness to come back again and again into this battle, uncorrupted and unbowed. Sacrifice yourself unceasingly for love of truth and justice and freedom. And then we will have the true purity to become Khalsa Raj on this earth. These are the times when demons and dogs sit in power. Even if we are the only voice left, let's die speaking words of praise and victory. Pleasure and pain is one and the same. Everything that comes to us is Gurprasad. This ability to take a stand against overwhelming forces of evil is our gift of love from Guruji. Take the example of Baba Deep Singh Ji. Even if our head is cut off, let's still keep fighting. After all, becoming Khalsa is about giving your head, not preserving it. 

How can they kill the immortal Khalsa? It is a war the demons can't win.





*"Baba Deep Singh Jee gave his head out of Love *
*for Guroo Saahibs Home, what would you do for love...??"*


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## badmash (Mar 31, 2007)

Then you are taking some good bhang, share it will you not please?

Why you say?

The prime minister of India is Manmohan Singh, a turban wearing sikh who cannot even politely tell france what it ought to do with its turban ban.

The head of the Indian Army man is another "yes" man, JJ Singh, you do not see him looking into the lost artifacts from Harminder Sahib and Akal Takht from 1984 do you?

We in the west may still feel the abject humiliation of 1984, and the years that followed, but trust me our bretheren in India have mostly forgot, or gone over to the other side, for the pursuit of money and the good life is too strong for most rational individuals, especially if you really do not know what you are about. So what resistance are you talking about? You cannot plant a tree in the middle of a tar pit, or if you do, you are looking at slim odds. And as for diaspora showing up in Punjab willing to die for Sikhi, that is eminently laughable and funny. Trust me, if the brave Sikh soldiers and officers of the Indian army took orders to storm gurudwaras in punjab, then anything is possible. Being idealistic is one thing, being unrealistic and indulging in wishful thinking is another. The best we can do is to preserve the knowledge of culture and tradition and language, because  even those are being thrown by the wayside by many of us. Be well.....


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Mar 31, 2007)

If you have no faith, there is nothing left to preserve. It's already some past dead thing in your mind. And yes, I am certain the hope of Punjab will be coming from the diaspora. In fact, Khalsa Raj will have root in Punjab but come from all over the world. I invite you, just take a look at history. Take a look at mass movements. A nation can be beaten down and in 100 years rise from nothing to a world power. Things aren't always what they appear to be in this false world of delusions. I think you would be surprised at the thousands of Sikhs who are in chardi kala. Before you give up completely, why don't you look to see if you can find them. 

Look at the charges against Rahul Gandhi, and the RSS hysterical condemnation of the Congress Party. The Indian people are sick of RSS Hindutva fanaticism and mindless violence as they are of the lies and corruption of the Congress Party. Nothing has failed so miserably as Hindutva. Radical changes will be happening over the coming decade. Change is the nature of this unstable world. Just watch, and have faith. Times of struggle are the times greatest blessing. Who would want to be born in any other times? 

You are part of this generation. Aren't you sick of the corruption, betrayal and mismanagement of our own Sikh leadership? Do you think it was any different during times of Singh Sabha reform? Do you think you alone are sick of evil things and long for something admirable and uncorrupted? We all want the same things. When we want it bad enough, we will be willing to make the difference. But as long as you are clinging to this empty life and these fake things, you won't be willing to pay any price for anyone besides yourself. When you see how fake are these trinkets and how divinely precious is the Khalsa Panth, you yourself will begin to change, and become that which the whole world needs. I invite you to transform yourself, and become what you love and honor to the best of your ability with Guruji's kirpa. Even an Army of one is a light shining in darkness.

But if you really have no faith in Sikhi, or in the promises Guruji has made, then, what on earth are you bothering to preserve? Go ahead and fall away if your heart is lost already. If all you can do is ridicule the very things you yourself hope for, how will you ever become the best you can be? The whole world is hoping in you. Be bigger than you seem.

Hindutva on Rahul Gandhi. Will the racist militant BJP topple the Congress Party? Hindu Unity - Soldiers of Hindutva! Awake Hindus!!
_



"Hindu Militancy is the only solution left for India. Let one weed grow on your lawn by tolerating it will result in more weeds until they take over healthy grass. Destroy the weeds that live in India. Kill them at their roots" 
- Rohit Vyasmaan, HinduUnity.org
		
Click to expand...

critical instability: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9cZ-jArkrU
Preparation for massacres: YouTube - Physiological Patriots: The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh
_Final Solution - Massacres in India - Google Video



*Modern history will teach that weakened nations tend to rise *
*a**nd powerful nations tend to fall. *
*Once completely prostrate to foreign powers and invasions, *
*the opium trade and corrupt warlords, modern China bears no *
*resemblance to what it did in 1919.*





*Economic Powerhouse Germany literally rose from *
*the ashes of unconditional defeat and 3 foreign *
*powers occupation in 1945.*





*Who would have believed the hundreds of years old Russian dynasty *
*would come to an end in the execution of Tsar Nicholas Romanov and *
*his entire family in 1917. Or the decades of nuclear powerhouse Soviet *
*Union that followed would collapse without a whimper in* *1991.*








*Who would have thought the darling of the West, Shah of Iran, *
*Mohammed Reza Pahlavi would be toppled along with Western *
*influence to give rise to a fundamentalist revolution in 1979?*
*






*


*If you think India will always be corrupt. I bet money you're dead wrong. The people themselves will get too sick of it. Radical revolution is human nature. And then the population will get sick of the revolutionaries. Nothing is stable in this world. I admit Sikhs don't seem to be any more ready for Khalsa Raj at this point. But with my heart and soul I do believe the Khalsa Raj is coming. We can all become that. First we have to believe. Then we have to try. Khalsa is not about hate or violence or destruction. It's about justice, defense of the innocent and integrity. When we get sick of all this, we ourselves will bring the change.*

*Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa*
*Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.*


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Mar 31, 2007)

*Before we were born. Before RSS-BJP there was genocide of epic proportions. *
*Sadly, the RSS-BJP are imitating their example.> **YouTube - 60 Million**. (Please watch)*

*Welcome to Kali Yug.*





> kil kwqI rwjy kwsweI Drmu pMK kir aufirAw ] (145-10, mwJ, mÚ 1)
> kal kaatee raajay kaasaa-ee Dharam pankh kar udri-aa.
> ----------------------------------------------
> The Dark Age of Kali Yuga is the knife, and the kings are butchers; righteousness has sprouted wings and flown away.


 


> sic kwlu kUVu vriqAw kil kwlK byqwl ] (468-16, Awsw, mÚ 1)
> sach kaal koorh varti-aa kal kaalakh baytaal.
> --------------------------------------------------
> There is a famine of Truth; falsehood prevails, and the blackness of the Dark Age of Kali Yuga has turned men into demons.


 


> hovY prvwxw krih iD|wxw kil lKx vIcwir ]1] rhwau ] (902-16, rwmklI, mÚ 1)
> hovai parvaanaa karahi Dhinyaanaa kal lakhan veechaar. ||1|| rahaa-o.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Those who act like tyrants are accepted and approved - recognize that this is the sign of the Dark Age of Kali Yuga.


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## badmash (Mar 31, 2007)

Yes, but we sitting and talking in the USA are going to stop this??!!


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/world/asia/29turban.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Mar 31, 2007)

veerji,

We can't stop anything. Things that are going to happen will. Expect it to go bad and get worse. All we can do is oppose hurtful things the best we can. We can support the right things and take a stand against the wrong things. We can protest, file petitions, try to educate and prepare ourselves best we can. We can be willing to sacrifice our dasvandh, our time, maybe even our life for the right things so we don't get sucked down into the corruption all around us. If we learn from these crazy things in this crazy world, we're already leaving it better than when we came.

All I know, bad times make courageous people. Otherwise everyone would be lazy and care only about themselves. I know there will always be traitors and betrayals. But there are noble things too. There are good Hindu's who saved Sikhs out of love for humanity. And there are Sikhs who in this day and age, faced torture and death with courage and did not betray. There will always be heroes and villains in the world. I'm just an ordinary person. But I love what I love, and I want to become that.

I think bad times are coming. And when it comes, if we're good, if we have heart for suffering people, we will do all we can to help. What else can we do but stay true to ourselves and what we love. No one can stop the Kali Yug. We have to go thru this cycle and somehow keep our loyalty and our love intact. If people are falling away, it's because they love something else. Just remember, someone who is killed can be reborn. Someone who cuts hair can grow it again. Someone who does evil can change in their heart and turn toward good. This is the redemption of the whole world. Just have faith in the Guru. Just cling to the Guru, and no matter what happens, there is peace. That's the victory. The world is drowning, suffering, burning. But you can have peace in the midst of torture. Guruji already has the victory.


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## badmash (Mar 31, 2007)

I am not in the habit of psychoanalyzing anyone or giving critiques of emotions. What is undeniable is the rot and incompetence of our leadership, both Sikh and Indian. What is also undeniable is our apathy among the educated Sikhs to be more involved, but that generalization is true among most faiths, although not as striking as it is in Sikhism. What is needed is for the Sikhs as a community to come together and fight the issues which need to be fought to preserve themselves. My point is that internal bickering, overly indulgent condemnation of peers, lofty verbosity are not going to goad us to getting there. The only thing, I think, is to return in some way to one's roots. I think flying off the deep end regarding an upcoming Khalsa Raj flies in the face of factual reality and truth. It smacks of a dreamy detached extremism that while refreshing in the face of loss of culture, is itself sometimes inimical to sustainable, rational and constructive discussion that all can partake of. We need to be able to form a core of a group of people who are willing to take concrete, small steps to achieving some of the goals of preserving culture. Otherwise, indeed, why is it so bad to question spitting in the wind?


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Mar 31, 2007)

You don't believe in the Khalsa Raj because you think Sikhi is a cultural phenomenon. As long as you think it's about cultural pride and insular politics, then we're in danger of creating the same thing as BJP-RSS. All those mass movements in the world, communism, fascism, nationalism are creating hell on earth. Pride and politics are not the answer, they're just more of the same.

Without any spiritual reality there can be no transformation. Unless we are transformed from the causes of suffering that have roots within us, what do we have to offer? Politics for the sake of politics or national pride are just another corruption.

It's that something purer, that evolutionary process, that potential cleansing on a spiritual level that has power to give life to the world. All these temporal powers and kingdoms are rising and falling and crumbling into the very thing they sought to reform.

Only a rule by the pure has any meaning of justice. Only with purification from the vikaars that contaminate our best intentions can true rule be anything other than oppression. If you don't believe in Guruji, then you're only wanting a museum to preserve history in. It's not a living faith. It has no meaning.

Raj Karega Khalsa!


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## badmash (Apr 4, 2007)

Then you must realize you live in a world of self defined dreams. That degree of purity is no longer found on this planet. You have a right to believe in that idealistic perspective of faith, but I also believe people should have the right to believe in what they perceive and see to be realistic or practical. Unfortunately, I think some feel the need to always have a comment or judgement. My feeling is that the maturity of a  faith or religion or society and indeed the individual,  is the ability to respect and accept the differences of perspective and use them constructively together. I too grow tired of this irrational debate, and to use the words of another on this forum, feel posting here is basically irrelevant, because talk, counter talk and flowery gurbani will not promote sikhism today in any true manner or way. Be well, good luck to all who read this, Sat Sri Akal!


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