# Sikhs Failed To Follow And Spread Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Message



## hpluthera (Dec 16, 2005)

Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Message to alll Humanity was for Freedom of worship of the Only One (By what ever name we know him in our heart) is the key to attain spiritual bliss while living normal life without ritualistic superstitions or religious dogmas.

More than believing in  truth  Sri Guru Nanak Dev impressed on the truthful living.

But Sikh preachers and Sikh scholars again tied themselves to the same old  Religious Dogmas of  ritualism, superstitions etc.  

The today's time has more literacy and less wisdom.  Let us atleast positively use the lieracy to spread the original message for more to become complete human beings than just Sikhs-belonging to a Noble Clan is just like being part of a crowd, but Guru Made Sikh to become Noble so that crowd follow them to be proud of their Nobility.  Sikhs have to Follow Guru Nanak in letter and spirit not just worship him.  Guru Nanak stopped people from worshiping blindly and advised them to understand the real meaning and be practical.
HP Luthera


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## hps62 (Dec 17, 2005)

*testosterones  shoring needed for sikh boys*

Dear  brother

I read an  interesting  thread in some other  Sikh  site  titled " what  muslims percieve us ?? and a thread in this  site titled "  *"Calling Muslims to*_* Seduce *_*Sikh Girls"* ,  

I am sharing an  thought  with you. though it has  nothing to do with your thread

WGKHWKF

 comments on " how  muslims  percieve  us " reflects the  poor  state  of your   mind ( inspite  of  being a  sikh )

Sikh girls have  not  been  taken by  muslims for first time. Since  Ahmad  Shah  abad ali time  sikh  girls  have  been going into muslims  possession by  some  means  or  other force  or  allurment.

It is  when  ever  you  have been weak that  girls  leave  you  either  voluntarily  or by force.

Girls are  Oestrogenic  driven  creatures and are  attracted  by testosterone driven males and not  by a {censored} whining men like  you .

So how  do  you define a testerone driven man . It all depends upon which  society  you  live  in.

*In " USA* " you will have  to  do some  thing technologically  smart as *" SUPERMAN "*

*IN  “UK”*  you will be  required to  be  *"JAMES BOND*"

In  INDIA  you will require  to  be  " *Sharook khan " , " Amir Khan " etc *( I have  a strong suspicion  all the  khans are backed  by powerful  underworld lobby who have   secretly  captured  bolly  wood right under  your nose) . 

*Indian muslims* are a real  smart  lot in terms of  Number of  kids  they have  and  average  of  5 , build  missiles  like  the  president , and  are romantic   like  Sharuk  khan.

 *Pakistanis muslims* are still the smartest muslims I have  seen. They threw  you out of your own land; play with Osama bin laden and  Bush at  same  time ;develop   nukes . Contrast this with our lousy  King  CM of Punjab  who is  to scared  to  even handle   a “ peaceful energy generating nuclear  reactor” in state. Shame on we  all Sikhs intellegence . Pakis also have  the  gut  to challenge the  high and  mighty USA.

So  if  you  love your  girls and  want  them  to sleep with you and not  some  smart muslim . Do some  thing  testosteronic sikh would  do .

say like capture Osama bin laden , get  nobel prizes and have a critical number of men  to prevent  getting  wiped  out  from this  planet.

Secondly   stop whining like a  {censored}  SIKH and change to  become a  modern  smart and  suave SIKH.  One like the  role  your  forefathers would  have been proud to see you in 2005   forms such as Superman , batman , James bond, sharuk khan etc.and capturer  of  osama bin laden.

got  it you scared dud 

from the  

"Smart  Sardar of 2005" of  Gen X

WGKHWGF

hps62
Balwant Singh[/quote]


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## hpluthera (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: testosterones  shoring needed for sikh boys*

Dear Friend,

The attraction of oposite sexes is a natural phenomina,  however in the past most of the societies the only source of energy and power was MANPOWER>  Whosoever had biggest man power could raise biggest army and amass wealth and territory.  The women were the only source of production a man singly at one time discharge millions of eligible sperms to meet with only one egg with a woman.  So the acquisition of others women were a way of defeating the opponent in two ways capturing its regeneration source and taking its honour.  At the same time increasing their egg source for more man power.

In today's world quality counts than quantity.  Although there is acute shortage of women in Punjab (only 700 women to 1000 men)  and on that very shameful acts done by many of infanticites of the girls both in India and Pakistan as well. 

 In many other parts of the world same is the situation and china is one of the country also facing shortage of women as compared to its male population.

So law of demand and supply is as valid in this situation as in economics.  

Europe has a problem of women loving women in large  perentage bipassing men.  So the problem is wider Sikhs are also in the same predictamenty.  This disturbed equation can be felt more closely amongst the Sikhs being minority and having many attractive girls automatically the males of other cultures and groups would not mind notice the Sikh girls.  So we find our good girls stolen in the garb of marriage.  

The male population of the world  is getting desprate for Muslims of India and Pakistan the next best suitable women might be a Sikh girl.  Now the question is who can make the women of Sikh origin not to get seduced or carried away by the approaches from non Sikhs.

It is either in the Hands of Parents or Girls or the Sikh boys.  Definitely we have to give our girls more respect and dignity. We have to encourage parents of the Sikh Girls with more support and give them a place of dignity.  Sikh boys have to change their ways as well. 

 You will find many Sikh girls academically more educated then boys similarly these girls are more cultured than the boys.  But many irresponsible parents force arranged marriages and ruin their lives due to  mismatch. 

 There are lot of other factors as well.  It is a big social issue.  The families who migrate overseas from villages with children born overseas face amany problems as they do not fit well to marry marry some one from their parents relations or village in  their Indian families;  many of those boys do not fit with them.  So it is a bit complicated issue  for overseas settled too.

  Lack of knowledge of History by yougster is another reason. Teaching the Sikh History is an important subject which unfortunately is not taught in schools.  Sikhs intelligentia and Historians need to work with the early child care ducators to write History in a way that its quickly and interestingly read and understood.

Good Parenting with an open communication with children is very important.

I am not totally condemning inter faith marriages but I am not in favour of such seductions with a wrongful motives which are just like persecution.  We must protect our youngsters from falling into such traps.
Guru Bhali Kare.
Regards
HP Luthera





			
				hps62 said:
			
		

> Dear brother
> 
> I read an interesting thread in some other Sikh site titled " what muslims percieve us ?? and a thread in this site titled " *"Calling Muslims to*_* Seduce *_*Sikh Girls"* ,
> 
> ...



[/quote]


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## devinesanative (Dec 19, 2005)

_*You will find many Sikh girls academically more educated then boys similarly these girls are more cultured than the boys.*_

There may be many factors for boys being academically less educated but one of the common factors is the constant indirect pressure from parents , environment and society to do something earn living . 

And result , most of the boys end up doing some job or business leaving their education in the mid.

As people advocate that why parents allow boys so much freedom like drinking , going to clubs etc.

But as per Most parents , if he is not allowed now to see the world , then how he will earn his living .


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## devinesanative (Dec 19, 2005)

Is being Academically Good Educated makes any one Intelligent or Superior to Others ?


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## devinesanative (Dec 19, 2005)

It means many great people who visited this planet Earth were uncultured boys.


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## Arvind (Dec 20, 2005)

> Is being Academically Good Educated makes any one Intelligent or Superior to Others ?


I conside Academics as an organized way of learning. This does not automatically imply being intelligent. In fact, if we observe nature, insects, animals around us, there are so many things to learn. A desire for learning is what makes one different, and increases the intelligence level.


			
				devinesanative said:
			
		

> It means many great people who visited this planet Earth were uncultured boys.


I know, you didnt want to write this, and just want to invoke a debate... so i wont get into this detail.

Sincerely, Arvind.


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## devinesanative (Dec 20, 2005)

Dear Arvind JI

You are really very smart................


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## devinesanative (Dec 20, 2005)

hpluthera said:
			
		

> Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Message to alll Humanity was for Freedom of worship of the Only One (By what ever name we know him in our heart) is the key to attain spiritual bliss while living normal life without ritualistic superstitions or religious dogmas.
> 
> More than believing in truth Sri Guru Nanak Dev impressed on the truthful living.
> 
> ...


 
Yes , Sikhs have to follow Guru Nanak in letter and Spirit not just Worship him ..

In fact we should not try to be this *sikh* but this *SIKH... *


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## kds1980 (Dec 20, 2005)

wjkk
wjkf

     sikhs failed to deliver guru nanaks message because these days sikhs give
lot of importance to external practices


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## devinesanative (Dec 21, 2005)

During the time of GuruNanak Dev ji , the concept of casteism , religious superiority was prevalent.

And GuruNanak Dev ji , brought every one from the diverse background on the single platform and made them equal.

In those days there was Casteism , Religionism etc .

Today in the modern age , Still the Concept remains the same , but with modern names , High Status , Low Status , Highly cultured , Low Cultured , Highly respectable , low Respectable , High Class , Low Class,superiority inferiority , Highly Religious , Low Religious.

No concrete suggestions to the problems , but Abstract advices to the problems.

If someone faces a problem , then people select few verses from SGGS start disseminating , without Listening , understanding and analysing the problem of the solution seeker .

When any one gets into trouble , some say "Obey God's Hukum , accept reality the way it is".

Okay , the person has agreed that it was God Hukum and has accepted the reality the way it is , But what the next Step should be .

If suppose one has met an accident , you say the "Obey God's Hukum , accept reality the way it is". And leave the person on the road there ....


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## hps62 (Jan 19, 2006)

dear  brother 

SSAKAL

I have  suggested one way to fulfill the mission of  our  GURUS on this site  today under

"*Toward the Sikh Goal of " Unifying Man kind " by new Panj Piaras* "

What is  your opinion about it.

with regards 

SSAKAL

hps62


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## Bhai Harbans Lal (Sep 27, 2009)

Guru Fateh!

You are very right. We are more to strengthen our ethnicity than to be part of Guru NAnak's universality. Let all those consider the Guru Granth their guide to help each other and dwell on the message.

Harbans Lal, Arlingto/USA


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## ajaybills (Sep 28, 2009)

Saadh Sangat Ji 

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. 

I have been reading the newsletter for the last many months. I am peeved at the comment that Sikhs failed to follow and spread Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's message to the humanity.

I am all the more peeved by someone's citing the " Muslim perception about Sikhs". Boss Sikhs are sons of Guru Nanak Dev Jiand the race is not dependent on some *******ed girls who get seduced by the so called Testosterone. 

And if someone is talking about Testosterone, he should be told about Baba Banda Singh Bahadar, Baba Deep Singh,etc from the History. And Present we can cite Dr. Manmohan Singh. 

And some coward and lowly man who is thinking that by force taking someone's wife or daughter he is going to increase the strength of Islam is going to do a disservice to his relegion. 

True Muslim is like Baba Farid who does not believe in annihilation of any relegion, rather focusses on coexistence and together reaching the same destination i.e. God... Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, Sikhism, Budhism, etc are all just the paths which are leading to one God. We may call it Allaah, Waheguru, Bhagwaan etc.

Yes we have to spread Guru Nanak Dev Ji's message to the world. One mistake we have committed is that we have made Gurudwaras only a place of Bhakti. We must make them the places of Bhakti as well as Shakti.  Bhakti is Gurbani, Shakti is a collection of Physical Strength as well as increasing the intellect of Saadh Sangat. By intellect i mean they shud be taught Communication skills, Personality Development skills, Group Activities. Not All Gurudwaras can have these facilities but we can always pool the resources.

I am sure we will be able to find good Teachers to Teach  Personality Development skills- A lot many Retired Army Officers will be able to devote time for this. Tuitions on various subjects free for all should be arranged in the Premises of GuruDwaras.
Our Focus should be to get the youth keep coming to Gurudwaras. Gurudwaras should be the places where one should get the answers to all problems. 

My request to the Administrator 
I am ready to give whatever i can for the cause, please discuss over this issue to as many brethren as  possible. We must turn Gurudwaras into what they used to stand for during the times of our Gurus. We will definitely be spraeding the message of  Guru Nanak Dev Ji. 

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Ajay Pal Singh


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## eropa234 (Sep 28, 2009)

Christians, Muslims and Budhists along with their different denominations are spreading the same messages. Its difficult to argue that some how by having long hair and turbans the truth is realized.


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## spnadmin (Sep 28, 2009)

eropa234 said:


> Christians, Muslims and Budhists along with their different denominations are spreading the same messages. Its difficult to argue that some how by having long hair and turbans the truth is realized.



*Please stay on the topic. Further off-topic comments will be moved or deleted. *


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 28, 2009)

eropa234 said:


> Christians, Muslims and Budhists along with their different denominations are spreading the same messages. Its difficult to argue that some how by having long hair and turbans the truth is realized.



eropa,

Guru Fateh.


Your post makes no sense. Can you express yourself in a better way and share what is on your mind and what kind of message would you like to hear?

Thanks

Tejwant Singh


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## seeker3k (Sep 28, 2009)

Dear HP Luthra Ji

It is great idea that you have published here. But are you prepare to question your belief? 
It is nice talk about other religion’s fault. We are the best when we show the other is wrong. I wrote about my idea about Nanak but the site I sent will not put it in the forum because it does not fit in their belief. 
If you are willing to publish it then I can rewrite it. Don’t forget it will shake you to the core.
sohan


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## eropa234 (Sep 28, 2009)

Dear Tejwant Ji,

I am a student of Sri Guru Granth Sajib , not part of religion, I try to be the best student i can it including questioning the statements of Bani and try to find the truth in them. The message of Bani is for an individual. Simply put Satguru is not an individual or any scripture rather TRUTH the TEACHER that must be contemplated through the divine power of questioning ,mostly self questioning. Its the truth that shows one the real value rather than the values of the senses. Its very easy to run away from the truth. A few years ago a friend of mine told me that there is no value in truth as a result of his experience. He got into a minor accident and the cop asked him if he was wearing the seat belt, in his honesty he told him no, he was issued a ticked. Therefore he made a decision to run away from the truth. 

Quote " Sat padarath gurmukh lehoo, Prub ka Bhana Sat kar sahoo. Eat the truth and bare its consequences as doings of the lord. For those who suffer losses as my friend did this statement provides a mountain of comfort. After contemplating on this statement for several months I see the truth in it.

There is a saying " Akhee dekh Makhi nahi Khadi Jandi" Once you have seen the fly in milk it can not be oaten. Once one knows the truth he never falters. 

Only the ones who practice can have the ability to successfully preach as our gurus did.


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## Balkar Singh (Sep 29, 2009)

We,Sikhs r divided among our egos.Ranks,Riches and caste has re-entered the Faith.
Satguru Nanak dev ji travelled about 40000km on foot to preach 'Brotherhood of mankind and fatherhood of God. "If we have lost our capital.How we can hope the gains" ? (Kheti jinki ujjre khalware kya thaoN -GGS-1245 ) The answer is;"Trouble is the treatment - pleasures the ailmentrs"-(Dukh daru sukh rog bhaya-GGS-469)
          Satguru mehar kare


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 29, 2009)

eropa234 said:


> Dear Tejwant Ji,
> 
> I am a student of Sri Guru Granth Sajib , not part of religion, I try to be the best student i can it including questioning the statements of Bani and try to find the truth in them. The message of Bani is for an individual. Simply put Satguru is not an individual or any scripture rather TRUTH the TEACHER that must be contemplated through the divine power of questioning ,mostly self questioning. Its the truth that shows one the real value rather than the values of the senses. Its very easy to run away from the truth. A few years ago a friend of mine told me that there is no value in truth as a result of his experience. He got into a minor accident and the cop asked him if he was wearing the seat belt, in his honesty he told him no, he was issued a ticked. Therefore he made a decision to run away from the truth.
> 
> ...



eropa234 ji,

Guru Fateh.

Nice to know that you are a student of SGGS.  As you are a student of SGGS then how do you come to terms with the following Shabad  especially the verse in *bold* and your initial statement which I asked you to elaborate?

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ  ਜੋ  ਹਰਿ  ਗੁਣ  ਗਾਵੈ  ਸੋ  ਨਿਰਮਲੁ  ਕਰਿ  ਲੀਜੈ  ॥੨॥ 
 साधसंगि जो हरि गुण गावै सो निरमलु करि लीजै ॥२॥ 
 Sāḏẖsang jo har guṇ gāvai so nirmal kar lījai. ||2|| 
 One who sings the Glorious Praises of the Lord in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, becomes spotlessly pure. ||2|| 

 ਬੇਦ  ਕਤੇਬ  ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ  ਸਭਿ  ਸਾਸਤ  ਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ  ਪੜਿਆ  ਮੁਕਤਿ  ਨ  ਹੋਈ  ॥ 
 बेद कतेब सिम्रिति सभि सासत इन्ह पड़िआ मुकति न होई ॥ 
 Beḏ kaṯeb simriṯ sabẖ sāsaṯ inĥ paṛi▫ā mukaṯ na ho▫ī. 
*One may read all the books of the Vedas, the Bible, the Simritees and the Shaastras, but they will not bring liberation.*

 ਏਕੁ  ਅਖਰੁ  ਜੋ  ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਜਾਪੈ  ਤਿਸ  ਕੀ  ਨਿਰਮਲ  ਸੋਈ  ॥੩॥ 
 एकु अखरु जो गुरमुखि जापै तिस की निरमल सोई ॥३॥ 
 Ėk akẖar jo gurmukẖ jāpai ṯis kī nirmal so▫ī. ||3|| 
 One who, as Gurmukh, chants the One Word, acquires a spotlessly pure reputation. ||3||


Thanks

Tejwant Singh


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## Bhai Harbans Lal (Feb 21, 2010)

Although there is considerable overlap, Sikhee or Gurmat is more than Sikhs or Sikhism, their objectives, symbolism, scope and intent should be distinguished before we can tell any one what Sikhee stands for and how universal is its appeal. Sikhee or Gurmat is exclusively based on teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Sikhs may add to or subtract from it any theoloogy and customs derived  from their history. 
Harbans Lal, Arlington, USA


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## dalbirk (Feb 22, 2010)

IMHO Sikhs have failed on following counts :
1. They have yet to grasp the real Definition of God as described in MOOLMANTAR .
2. They have failed to follow the real terminology of SHABAD ( WORD ) as Guru . Almost very negligible no of persons I have come across till today are clear about how Shabad ( Word / Gurbani ) is our Guru & how it can make us achieve the state of Living Emancipation ( Jiwan Mukt ) . As a result the Sants , Babas etc step in to fill the gap whose only purpose is to fleece the guillible believers & make them worship himself only & not the LORD GOD .
3. The MODERN Sikhs have gone one step furthur again questioning the very baisis of Sikhism , its requirement in 21st century , they simply do not want to follow the tenants of Sikhism but keep criticising all the beliefs of Sikhism while at the same time calling themselves as Sikhs .
4.The basic three pillars of Sikhism are 
a. Kirat Karo ( Do honest labour )
b. Naam Japo ( Remember God )
c. Wand Chakko ( share your earnings )
     But Sikhs are all into external practices which are dogmatic heavily influenced by their sense of Ego & show off like Nagar Kirtans, Roadside lanagrs / Chabeels , Rumallas on SGGS , hiring expensive Raagis , Series of Akhand paaths , Building & Goldplating More Gurudwaras  Hemkunt Yatras etc . But are not doing any effort on THREE BASIC PILLARS front .
5 . There is absolutely no effort on part of Sikhs to impart teachings of Sikhi , Gurmat/ SGGS to their children thinking it to be unnecessary . Mostly even they themselves are not attuned to the teachings of SGGS , Rehat Maryada etc . 
6 . There has been absolutely no effort on part of Sikh institutions to translate SGGS into other languages of India starting with Hindi , English , Spanish , mandarin etc . There is no effort to make a consensus on which translations are treated as approved & start their use in daily Katha , Hukamnaamas . Nobody is ready to spend even single penny on translations whichever are done are with ill-intent under the influence of some sect , group which is actually a mistranslation done intentionally to create more confusion .


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## Harry Rakhraj (Feb 23, 2010)

I was under the impression that Sikhism  is non-evangelist . If that is correct, where's the question of spreading the  word, guru Nanak's or of anyone else ?​


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## Harry Rakhraj (Feb 23, 2010)

> Originally Posted by *eropa234*
> 
> 
> _Dear Tejwant Ji,
> ...



I am also a student of Guru Granth Sahib, although just a beginner. I have so  many questions but no one to answer them. Maybe I could address them to you?


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## Taranjeet singh (Feb 23, 2010)

> Originally Posted by *dalbirk*
> 
> 
> _IMHO Sikhs have failed on following counts  :
> ...



About few days back I also had the notion that we are not moving at the speed  that we should have been. But lately I have realized that every things happens  as per His will. But yes, it should not make us complacent. All that you have  stated do have a merit.

But we should also keep in mind that sikhism is  the youngest of all the major religions. It has caught the eye of the westerners  who are seeking peace of mind after being in the midst of maya[ wealth] for  quite some time. Let us not bother about the quantity.Let us concentrate on the  quality of the product that we want to have in the floral basket of sikhism. Of  what good it would be to add ten more to sikhi out which seven are drug addicts.  It is the quality on which we have not to make any compromise. It is tru that  Bani takes lot of time and the real seeker finds his ways with His  Grace.

Let us see what the Supremus has in mind for all of us.

But  Always Be in Chardi kala.

May God bless us all!!


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## spnadmin (Feb 23, 2010)

> Originally Posted by *rakhra*
> 
> 
> _I was under the impression that Sikhism is  non-evangelist . If that is correct, where's the question of spreading the word,  guru Nanak's or of anyone else ?_



rakhra ji

The "missionary" work of Sikhism has a specific meaning that  differs from the evangelism of other religions such as Christianity and Islam.  

Missionary work among Sikhs typically means spreading out among Sikh  sangats and teaching Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Sikh history and the philosophy of  Guru Nanak in greater depth. Using more teaching materials such as books --  which may not be available in gurdwaras -- written by notable Sikh scholars. The  sangats of India and of the Diaspora are in sore need of this kind of missionary  contact because "granthis" can't do it alone. There are missionary colleges in  India and the UK for example that prepare people to assume this role. 

So  we are not referring to missionary work to the non-Sikh. 







However,  there too is a missed opportunity. How many people are on the brink of needing  more in life than they currently have, know of Sikhism, want to learn more, and  are put off by the "Sikhism-light" introductions they find on the Internet? I  think quite a few.

See my next post for a response to your second  question.


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## spnadmin (Feb 23, 2010)

> I am also a student of Guru Granth Sahib, although just a beginner. I have so many questions but no one to answer them. Maybe I could address them to you?



Rakhra ji

I am not aware that you have asked for answers to your questions here and failed  to get them. You never sent me a private message. Did you ask any others among  mod's or admin for some direction to members who could be of assistance?


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## spnadmin (Feb 23, 2010)

> Originally Posted by *eropa234*
> 
> 
> _Dear Tejwant Ji,
> ...



eropa ji

Some of us are students of Sri Guru Granth Sahib as "part of  religion." Your commentary may have relevance for world-wide spirituality.  However, quotations from the beej of Kabir ji, or scholars of other "mats"  cannot be substituded as Gurmat in the heart and soul of Nanak's tradition.


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## Harry Rakhraj (Feb 23, 2010)

> Originally Posted by *Narayanjot Kaur*
> 
> 
> _eropa ji
> ...



As a child I studied in a Convent School for 12 years. I spent 5 more studying  the Holy Bible. Later,I spent almost a decade studying the Holy Koran. I have  been blessed to have been born in a Sikh family and my reading of the Bible and  Koran make me a better Sikh. Better Sikh because I now better appreciate what  '_ viraasat_ ' (legacy) the _Gursikh_ has in the Holy  Granth.

My biggest handicap is that the only language I know with any  degree of competence is English: No Hindi, no Urdu, no Arabic, not even  Gurmukhi. What little I know about the teachings of the Sikh Gurus' is either  through translations or through listening to ' _kathas_ '.

At this  age, and especially at this stage of my life, I know enough about the Guru  Granth Sahib. Enough to realize, for instance, what *they* mean when  *they* say that a more evolved race, say the Germans, would have benefitted  tenfold had Germany been home to the birth of the Granth Sahib. Enough to  realize that the Granth Sahib is indeed the complete Guru, with the perfect  precept for both materialistic and spiritualistic life. Enough to humbly  appreciate the divine beauty and melody of the composition.

But that is  not my point. What I am now looking to study is the notation, the construction  and layout of the Guru Granth Sahib. I want to know, for instance, how someone  could find the ' stanza or passage ' of their choice without knowing the  page number in the Holy Granth. How, having found inspiration in a particular  s_habad-kirtan_, I could locate the_ same _( lyrics ) in the Granth  Sahib. In short, I would like to know the Granth Sahib so very thoroughly that I  could write the software that I find missing on the Internet at  present.

Waheguru Fateh !


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## spnadmin (Feb 23, 2010)

rakhra said:


> But that is  not my point. What I am now looking to study is the notation, the construction  and layout of the Guru Granth Sahib. I want to know, for instance, how someone  could find the ' stanza or passage ' of their choice without knowing the  page number in the Holy Granth. How, having found inspiration in a particular  s_habad-kirtan_, I could locate the_ same _( lyrics ) in the Granth  Sahib. In short, I would like to know the Granth Sahib so very thoroughly that I  could write the software that I find missing on the Internet at  present.
> 
> Waheguru Fateh !



Rakhra ji

Thank you for clarifying your concerns. I have been locked out of the forum for a few hours because of a maintenance problem. And can only navigate partially at this time. Thus the delay in my reply.

Some of the answers to your questions can be found using gurbani search engines. The one that I use most often -- because it has most of the navigation tools that you have listed above -- is the one found at searchgurbani.org

The Sri Guru Granth Sahib can be searched by raag, by author (guru, bhagat, and sant), by page number, or by word and prhase (in English, Hindi, Transliteration, and Gurmukhi). The word and phrase search can be done using a variety of schemes including first letters of a word, by all the words, etc.) There is also an amrit kirtan section which can be searched. There are articles to provide background. And the site discusses the organization of the granth in one of its sections.

The location on the web is http://www.searchgurbani.org

Another favorite is is SikhiToTheMax which has a number of the same features. However the site is not as easy to figure out and the Gurmukhi fonts used are not standard fonts read by most web site servers. 

Both searchgurbani.org and SikhiToTheMax have  desktop versions. You can download the granth and search off-line.


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## seeker3k (Feb 26, 2010)

IMHO Sikhs have failed on following counts :
Read More:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=7884 (Sikhs Failed to Follow and spread Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Message)
1. They have yet to grasp the real Definition of God as described in MOOLMANTAR .<?"urn:fficeffice" />
It mean there is one God. The name (naam) is everlasting. One doer. He is not afraid. He have no enemy ( He also have no friend). He have no image. He is never born. He can be understood by the grace of guru. No where in the mool mantar it says the granth is guru.
. Guru’s parsad not elm. Parsad is given by guru on his own. When we ask any one guru or any one for any thing it is called begging. It is not parsad.
Maybe you should explain what u understand the meaning of mool mantar

2. They have failed to follow the real terminology of SHABAD ( WORD ) as Guru 
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Shabad,mater,bani dhun naam. There are many names of same thing. How the naam can become guru? The naam has to be given by true guru. It is the vibration of this naam that become guru. There is no need for the guru to be alive. Ei:-
As the girl ger pregnant by husband so does the soul by guru’s given naam. It does not make any difference if the husband is alive or not for the child in the womb.
The naam have to be sat nam ever lasting Naam. That has to be given by true guru. It can not be asked. How can we know the true guru it is big question. Here it is how to know. If guru give naam to some one ans aske him/her to recite it every day and keep coming to him or mander,gurdwara then he is not a true guru. As I stated the need of husband is not needed for the child in the womb. Girl and boy don’t have to have sex to the child to grow in the womb. Same here if the naam is true it is not needed to be repeated. Or have to do karam kand to be saved. Those guru who ask him/her to keep coming and recite the naam is like homosexual act. It feel good but can not bare child.
Almost very negligible no of persons I have come across till today are clear about how Shabad ( Word / Gurbani ) is our Guru & how it can make us achieve the state of Living Emancipation ( Jiwan Mukt ) .
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What is jiwan mukat?  Just like pregnant girl have to be care full what she eat and how she look after her body by not working hard jumping up and down while she is carriing the child in the womb. Same the person who have received naam have to live the live of good person.
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 As a result the Sants , Babas etc step in to fill the gap whose only purpose is to fleece the gullible believers & make them worship himself only & not the LORD GOD .
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Can the worship of any person help to get jiwan mukat, no it does not. Can the worship of God needed to have jiwan mukat, no it does not. God do not need our worship. We only do it to satisfy our own ego that we worship God. As stated in mool mantar God do not have body that have heart. Worship affect the heart by emotion of worship.
3. The MODERN Sikhs have gone one step furthur again questioning the very baisis of Sikhism, its requirement in 21st century, they simply do not want to follow the tenants of Sikhism but keep criticizing all the beliefs of Sikhism while at the same time calling themselves as Sikhs.
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All religions are created by men for their own power and ego. Those who are preaching us to be in the religion are doing so for their own benefit not ours. We have been brainwashed for thousands of years to worship and be true believer of religion. Other wise we will burn in hell. They will do any thing to keep us in the religion. Even kill people or kill us to keep the religion alive.

4.The basic three pillars of Sikhism are 
a. Kirat Karo ( Do honest labour )
b. Naam Japo ( Remember God )
c. Wand Chakko ( share your earnings )
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There is nothing wrong with these three pillars. It is good living. It is the basis of almost all religion. I say almost, there is a religion that doesn’t have that basis when it was started. The religion were needed when there was no law and order. The kings ruled and they did what they pleased. Public had no rights. Now most of the countries are democratic. They have the constitution that protect the public. There is no need for a religion. We have the vote that we can use to replace the leader that we don’t like. In religion the heads are appointed by just hand full people or by powerfull leader like Badal in <?xml::ffice:smarttags" /><st1lace w:st="on">Punjab appoint jethedar at akal takhat. They issue paid hukamnawas as they please. Very good example is the sitting one fllor for the langar. If all sit on chairs then all are equal. The reason hardliner give is at the time of guru sangat sat on floor so we should also sit on floor. There were no chairs then. Now we have chairs. Now people are disable too they have problem to sit on floor due to the problem with knees.

But Sikhs are all into external practices which are dogmatic heavily influenced by their sense of Ego & show off like Nagar Kirtans, Roadside lanagrs / Chabeels , Rumallas on SGGS , hiring expensive Raagis , Series of Akhand paaths , Building & Goldplating More Gurudwaras Hemkunt Yatras etc . 
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We will give money to build new gurdwaras but will not give the money for library or education for the poor child. Most of us believe that if we give money to Gurdwaras the gurus will bless us.
Read More:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=7884 (Sikhs Failed to Follow and spread Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Message)
5 . There is absolutely no effort on part of Sikhs to impart teachings of Sikhi , Gurmat/ SGGS to their children thinking it to be unnecessary . Mostly even they themselves are not attuned to the teachings of SGGS , Rehat Maryada etc . 
6 . There has been absolutely no effort on part of Sikh institutions to translate SGGS into other languages of <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region> starting with Hindi , English , Spanish , mandarin etc . There is no effort to make a consensus on which translations are treated as approved & start their use in daily Katha , Hukamnaamas . Nobody is ready to spend even single penny on translations whichever are done are with ill-intent under the influence of some sect , group which is actually a mistranslation done intentionally to create more confusion . 
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I am in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">India</st1:country-region> now visited many gurdwaras and other places. I see lot of curuption in all the places. No one is talking about the abuse. All I hear that this is <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">India</st1:country-region> and it is the way here. The news paper Ajit is full of paid news. Most of the news are copied from other English news papers. News paper should be to bring the corruption out and guide the public. All the way from the panchyat to the CM. There are nagar kirtan and dharna every where. The trafit is blocked for no reason. No one willing to work for the living. They are looking for easy way to make money. The youths are turning to drugs n whisky. Most of the whisky shops are owned by the Akali dal party members. I have seen from the 50’s and now at the Anadpur on holi days The nahans drink bhang all over in that holly city. That is the example they are setting for the public.
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In homes most of the men, boys are drinking whisky every night. I have seen boys 12 year old drink whisky with their father uncle.
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There is no spirituality left in religion. I see lot of hatred in <st1lace w:st="on">Punjab against the Hindus. Any thing comes from Hindu is always wrong. Many are talking about creating Khalstan. When I ask them to explain the working of the Khalistan they have no isea as to how it will work. All they are saying we will tell when we will get it. Simranjit Mann have the map of Khalistan drawn out with is most of haryana and Himachal should be included. Who will form the government and how. No one knows about it. Weather it be appointed by the Akal thakhat or by public vote. What will happen to Sikhs like me who are clean shaved. And the other Sikhs in other part of <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region> or in other countries.
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At the time of Nanak we all were Hindus. Our fore fathers were Hindus. If we hate our fore fathers we sure to be hated by our children.
Whan Nanak preached that place was called dera. He preached some thing that was missing in the religion of that time. Just look around is that thing is still in Sikhism or gone.  Why people are going to sants or baba’s dera. Because they don’t see any value in the religion. Sikhism is full of karm kand which Nanak preached against.
Karm dharm na but puja, parbrahm bi jan duja. SGGS p 199
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I don’t see any karm kand Nanak Aproved. So why are we getting more n more into them? People argue that to keep the religion we must have some karam kand. If Nanak survived then I am sure we can too. Nanak and other gurus preached about naam simran. What was the naam they were talking about? Now we belive the whole SGGS is naam. That can not be. At the time of Nanak the SGGS was not in existence. When Nanak argue with the sidhs he told them this is guru is shabad ( naam) But no where in his bani he mention what naam is. He claim in many places in his bani that naam is given by true guru. As now we see fake guru babas. They are not worthy of giving the naam. People are looking for the naam what the Nanak talked about and the fake babas taking advantage of ignorant people. At Harmandir in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Amritsar I have seen the statue of Nanak being sold. People are buying them. In the plave of Alkal Takhet this is going on. We all are guilty of it. People buy pictures of gurus and other shaheeds to put them in their homes with pride. Don’t they know that all pictures of gurus are fake. Why are we letting people to sell them in the Harmander? Even in the web site there are pictures of gurus being posted. What are we doing?
There is no picture or statue of Mohammad any where in the world. That religion is flourishing in all part of the world.
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It is very hard to explain what is naam and how it work here in writing. It has to be explained in person. People who want naam are looking for it and they will be looking till the end of the world.
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Seeker3k
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