# Halal Meat On The Rise?



## suk352 (Nov 13, 2006)

Hello

I do not follow Sikhism very strictly, however i will certainly not eat halal meat or smoke though I do drink very occasionally.

As a sikh im sure you are all aware that halal or kosher meat is forbidden. Im am getting so fed up of more and more butchers and fast food places declaring themselves as "halal approved" places. Surely theese places should
give us a choice? Im finding all my local fast food joints now only serve halal meat, and its getting harder and harder to get non halal meat!

Are any sikhs here bothered by these problems? Are you all strict as me about eating halaal meat? 



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## dalsingh (Nov 13, 2006)

I am.

I know what you mean, where I live its almost pure halal! It gets awkward telling white workmates that I can't get that burger they are going to get from that shop because it is halal. They don't really care and will munch it regardless.

Its cool though, go to Dewhurst!! lol


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## kaur-1 (Nov 13, 2006)

As regards to being *non-halal* i.e. where an animal is not slowly and painfully bled to death thus not prolonging the agony, suffering and trauma.

What about fish? How do we know that the fish sold in the market or supermarkets have not been through a slow and painful death.?


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## bawaj (Nov 13, 2006)

If i am ever in a situation where there is only halal meat available then I believe that I would go vegetarian and I have no problem doing that. In addition, how do even know that the meat is halal... anyone can put their meat as halal but how do we really know?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Nov 14, 2006)

EATING HALLAL means a BAJJAR KUREHIT..requires pesh to Panj Piayars and tankhah..and retake Amrit.
SO avoid it if not sure.

2. ALL FISH suffer loss of AIR..when out of water..so they literally DROWN INAIR..just as we drown in WATER....thus all fish is "DROWNING VICTIMS"..neither Jhtaka nor hallal ???

3. HALLAL is Meat slaughtered in the MUSLIM WAY/SACRIFICIAL MEAT. a deer shot by a rifle/arrow is  NOT Hallal even though it may take an hour to die...  a GOAT slaughtered by JHATKA at a Kali Mata Mandir is also "Sacrificial Meat"...and cannot be eaten by a SIKH..even though not hallal !!!

4. GURBANI pays scant attention to such....calling those who debate on it as Moorakh....pay attention to that before you get ready to "do or die" over emat/vege ??

Gyani jarnail Singh


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## suk352 (Nov 14, 2006)

I know that it is probably best not to eat meat if you are a Sikh, but for those who do eat meat, how far do you go to avoid halaal meat? How important is it to most people?


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## kds1980 (Nov 14, 2006)

suk352 i think you are same person who hanve started this similar topic on sikhsangat.eating meat or not  eating meat has nothing to do with the sikhism

please read the following topic it will clear your misconception about meat eating

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html

as far as halal is concerned its better to avoid it


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## GURVINDER (Nov 14, 2006)

Kya Farak Padta Hai Chahe Halaal Khao Ya Jhatka Guru Nanak De Rah Nu  Tusi Bahut Piche Chadd Aye Ho`


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## kds1980 (Nov 14, 2006)

GURVINDER said:


> Kya Farak Padta Hai Chahe Halaal Khao Ya Jhatka Guru Nanak De Rah Nu  Tusi Bahut Piche Chadd Aye Ho`



according to guru nanak only fools argue about meat.mainu ek gal daso guru nanak ne kithe hiya hai ke meat khana paap hai?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Nov 15, 2006)

GURVINDER said:


> Kya Farak Padta Hai Chahe Halaal Khao Ya Jhatka Guru Nanak De Rah Nu Tusi Bahut Piche Chadd Aye Ho`


 
Guru Nanak jis "rah" bypasses all such mundane and miniscule restrictions..all left by the wayside...

Guru nanak ji says in sri Raag....
AVOID that which causes your "mind" Mann to get entangled in bad vibes !!
and then Guru nanak ji goes on to LIST...some of those things that may cause our mind to getr entangled if we put too much emphasis on them..
1. Too much "love" with Money/Gold/Silver/Jewellery....
2. Too much "love" with Fine WOMEN...
3. Too much "love" with FINE Clothes...
4. Too much "love" with FINE lotions, perfumes, 
5. Too much "love" with FINE Mansions...
6. Too much "love" with the Finest Rides..( horses, elephants..in modern context..mercedes, bmw, jaguar, ferari
7. Too much "love" with the Finest Beds,  softest pillows and mattresses
8. Too much "love" with SWEETS...ladoos, jalebis, sweet-tooth
9. TOO MUCH LOVE with Meat....and other related heavy stuff..

TOO MUCH..means EXCESSIVE.  and we all know too well how "EXCESSIVE" is the byword of any decent doctor....Diabetes ?? excessive sugar intake..obese ?? Excessive food/fat....heart attacks blood pressure ?..excessive foods...Embezzlement/white crime ?? Excessive love of "wealth"...AIDS..?? excessive sex....Living beyond ones means..bankruptsy proceedigns in court..credit bad..?? excessive trying to keep up with the Joneses...etc etc etc...and GURU NANAK JI Has so wisely shown us THE RAAH....

BUT what do we do..we just go on ranting day and night..on "meat"..meat..meat..  WHY did GURU JI have to write such a LONG Shabad..on FOOLS WRANGLING OVER MEAT ?? Simply because just like TODAY..the Religious bigots, so called religious perosns holy men were ALL playing to the Gallery over this MEAT question...without any basis..Thus in Asa Dee Vaar Guru nanak Ji declares that BRAHMINS...pretedn to eb so holy holy saying matt bhitteh ve matt bitteh...wear blue clothses of the Muslims, speak their Language, EAT HALLAL MEAT in the silence of the NIGHT..and next morning again begin saying Matt bhitteh ve matt bhitteh..we dont eat meat !!! Just read Asa Ki Vaar...its all there..the PAKHAND..the Matt bhitteh attitude of holy brahmins, and EATING "HUMANS" at NIGHT !!!!  Guur ji Thoroughly EXPOSED all this HYPOCRACY..just read His Gurbani saying...we are   Conceived in FLESH, Nurtured in FLESH, BORN in FLESH, Have FLESH in our Mouth, the first thign we put in our mouth is the FLESH of the Mothers breast, we Get married to FLESH, bring it home and enjoy the Flesh, we then Make soem more FLESH from union of FLESH....not for a second are we "separated" from FLESH...flesh is in the Vedas, in the Puranas, in the Kitabs..

IN Short it is total hypocracy to abstain from "Flesh"..in the name of RELIGION.  Abstain if you must..for reasons of..I dont like the taste..i dont wish to kill...i dont like its colour..whatever..BUT NOT ON THE BASIS of "GURU NANAK JIS RAH"....that is a total LIE.

I Dont take meat due to the high content of chemicals, cruelty to animals farmed in horrendous conditions, and a host of such reasons...BUT I NEVER CONDONE any "modern Sikh Brahmin" telling me..That is GURU JIs LAW..its NOT..definitely NOT.

Gyani jarnail Singh


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## GURVINDER (Nov 15, 2006)

kds1980 said:


> according to guru nanak only fools argue about meat.mainu ek gal daso guru nanak ne kithe hiya hai ke meat khana paap hai?


CAN YOU TELL ME WHERE IN WHICH PHRASE OF GURBANI GURU NANAK SAID THAT FOOLS ARGUE ABOUT MEAT


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## Archived_Member_19 (Nov 15, 2006)

isn't then the talk abt jhatka and halal same brahmanwadi discussions?

the point is

question can be... whether you kill and animal or not...how you do it...why it bothers you?


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## kds1980 (Nov 15, 2006)

GURVINDER said:


> CAN YOU TELL ME WHERE IN WHICH PHRASE OF GURBANI GURU NANAK SAID THAT FOOLS ARGUE ABOUT MEAT



gurvinder singh ji you are telling everybody to read gurbani.why don't you just
read gurbani with open mind.just read the following article and all comments there .you will also find there where guru nanak said that fools argue
about meat

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html


and btw gyani jarnail singh ji has already beautifully replied to your question


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## Veeru (Nov 15, 2006)

Logically, what's worse, cutting hair or killing?


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## thecoopes (Nov 16, 2006)

Dear friends, I thought Sikh was vegetarian?

I personally would never knowingly eat Halal anything.
Stick to pork guarantee never touched by Muslim Halal.


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## kds1980 (Nov 16, 2006)

thecoopes said:


> Dear friends, I thought Sikh was vegetarian?
> 
> I personally would never knowingly eat Halal anything.
> Stick to pork guarantee never touched by Muslim Halal.



dear coopes

sikhism is severly divided over eating meat.according to akal takhat the highest body of sikhs ,sikhs can eat meat if it is not halal.but as i earlier told
you there are many sects in sikhism which propagates that a sikh cannot eat meat.

btw if you ever visit india you will be surprised to know that sikhs are considered meat eaters and many famous non-veg restaurents are owned by
sikhs.my family too was highly religious and orthodox but eating meat was common thing in our home


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Nov 17, 2006)

kds1980 said:


> dear coopes
> 
> sikhism is severly divided over eating meat.according to akal takhat the highest body of sikhs ,sikhs can eat meat if it is not halal.but as i earlier told
> you there are many sects in sikhism which propagates that a sikh cannot eat meat.
> ...


 
The Diviison is recent...with the advent of the RADHA SOAMI BEAS Movement in the late 1940's. Before that there were very very few Daal Khannehs in Punjab Villages...

At the pain of repetion..i am putting a few more quotes from GURU NANAK JI Himself on EATING.  Read on..
Eating or not, any kind of meat is a personal preference depending 
on the taste etc and bringing the religion in-is fool hardy. Guru 
Nanak  Sahib Ji has explained it very well that only God knows what is good 
and what is bad. Meat has been eaten in all the four ages and has 
been referred in all religious books.

Water is the source of every thing in creation whether vegetation or 
meat.

ਪਾਣੀ ਪਿਤਾ ਜਗਤ ਕਾ ਫਿਰਿ ਪਾਣੀ ਸਭੁ ਖਾਇ ॥
“Paanee Pitaa Jagat Kaa Fir Paanee Sabh Khaa-ay”

Water is the father of the world; in the end, water destroys it all.
----Guru Nanak 
Dev, Raag Sarang, AGGS, Page, 1240-9
What food or clothes are good depends on the purity of heart as 
explained by Guru Nanak in Raag Majh; 

ਕਿਆ ਖਾਧੈ ਕਿਆ ਪੈਧੈ ਹੋਇ ॥ਜਾ ਮਨਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥ਕਿਆ ਮੇਵਾ ਕਿਆ ਘਿਉ ਗੁੜੁ ਮਿਠਾ ਕਿਆ ਮੈਦਾ ਕਿਆ ਮਾਸੁ ॥

“Ki-aa KhaaDhai Ki-aa PaiDhai Ho-ay, Jaa Man Naahee Sachaa So-
ay,Kiaa Mayvaa Kiaa Gheo Gurh Mithaa Kiaa Maidaa Kiaa Maas”

What good is food, and what good are clothes, if the True Lord does 
not abide within the mind? What good are fruits, what good is ghee, 
sweet jaggery, what good is flour and what good is 
meat? -----Guru Nanak, Vaar Raag Majh, AGGS, 
Page 142-12
Look Carefully...MAAS - meat comes LAST...why not ban eating of Meveh fruits, ghee, butter, sugar, atta flour..FIRST before banning "meat" ?? Are we cleverer than Guru nanak ji..our FOUNDER and Satguru Himself ??

Sikh thought is more on the ethical side of the life rather than 
physical (Maya/material) things. Food of any kind makes no 
difference but it is the spiritual part of remembering God is 
important for spiritual growth others are deluded. Guru Nanak 
describes in Raag Majh;
ਇਕਿ ਮਾਸਹਾਰੀ ਇਕਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਣੁ ਖਾਹਿ ॥ਇਕਨਾ ਛਤੀਹ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਪਾਹਿ ॥ਇਕਿ ਮਿਟੀਆ ਮਹਿ ਮਿਟੀਆ ਖਾਹਿ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਮੁਠੇ ਜਾਹਿ 
ਨਾਹੀ ਮਨਿ ਸੋਇ ॥
“Ik Masaharee Ik TriN Khaaeh, Ikna Chateeh Amnrit Paaeh, Ik MiTee-aa 
Meh MiTee-aa Khaaeh, Nanak Muthay Jaahi Naahee Man So-ay”
Some eat meat, while others eat grass. Some have all the thirty-six 
varieties of delicacies, while others live in the dirt and eat mud. 
O Nanak, those who do not enshrine the Lord within their minds is 
deluded. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Majh, SGGS, Page, 144
Here is another Sloke of Mardana in Raag Bihaagrha stressing on the 
spiritual side of life;
ਗੁਣ ਮੰਡੇ ਕਰਿ ਸੀਲੁ ਘਿਉ ਸਰਮੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਆਹਾਰੁ ॥ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਗੁੜੁ ਸਾਲਾਹ ਮੰਡੇ ਭਉ ਮਾਸੁ ਆਹਾਰੁ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹੁ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਸਚੁ ਹੈ 
ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਆਧਾਰੁ ॥
“GouN ManDay Kar Seel Gheo Saram Maas Aahaar, Giaan Gourh Salaah 
ManDay Bhou Maas Aahaar, Nanak Ih Bhojan Sach Hai Sach Naam AaDhaar.

Make virtue your bread, good conduct the ghee, and modesty the meat 
to eat. So make spiritual wisdom your molasses, the Praise of God 
your bread, and the Fear of God the meat you eat. O Nanak, this is 
the true food; let the True Name be your only 
Support. 

-----
Mardana, Raag Bihaagrha, SGGS, Page, 553-6

Kabir originally was follower of IDOLS ( Moortee Pujak) and follower of Ramanand and later 
became monotheistic and believed in contemplation of Naam. He being 
under the influence of Vedanta states about 3 things to refrain from 
including fish;
ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥
“Kabir Bhaang Maachulee Sura Paan Jo Jo Praanee Khaaneh, Teerath 
Barat Naym Keeay Tay Sabhay Rasaatal Jaaneh”

Kabir, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine no matter 
what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to 
hell.
----Bhagat Kabir 
Slokes # 233, SGGS, Page, 1377-2 & 3

There has been references to the Hukamnama of Guru Har Gobind from 
the book of Hukamnamas by Dr. Ganda Singh to the effect that the 
Guru forbid the eating of meat but it has been annulled by the above 
references even if the document is true. All the foot prints are 
covered by the elephants foot print.

Guru Nanak Sahib Ji  in Raag Malar describes in its entirety about meat , 
which he recited at Kurchetar at the festival of solar eclipse while 
cooking the deer meat to remove doubts and superstitions about its 
eating;
ਮਾਸਹੁ ਨਿੰਮੇ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਜੰਮੇ ਹਮ ਮਾਸੈ ਕੇ ਭਾਂਡੇ ॥ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕਛੁ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਚਤੁਰੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਪਾਂਡੇ ॥
“Maasahu Nimmay Maasahu Janmay Ham Maasai Kay Bhaanday, Gi-aan Dhi-
aan Kachh Soojhai Naahee Chatur Kahaavai PaaNday”

In the flesh we are conceived and in the flesh we are born; we are 
vessels of flesh. You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and 
meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious 
scholar.

ਮਾਸੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਤੇਬਂ-ੀ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗਿ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਮਾਣਾ ॥ ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੂ ਜਾਣੈ ਹੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਥਹੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਉਪੰਨਾ ॥ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਅੰਨੁ ਕਮਾਦੁ 
ਕਪਾਹਾਂ ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਗੰਨਾ ॥ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਕੀ ਰਕਤੁ ਨਿਪੰਨੇ ਮਛੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਨ ਖਾਂਹੀ ॥ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਜਾਂ ਨਿਸਿ ਮੇਲਾ �"ਥੈ ਮੰਧੁ 
ਕਮਾਹੀ ॥
“Maas PuraaNee Maas Kataybeen Chaoh Jug Maas KamaaNaa, PaanDay Too 
JaaNai Hee Naahee Kithoh Maas Upunnaa, To-i-ahu Ann Kamaad KapaahaaN 
To-i-ahu Taribhavan Gannaa, Maat Pitaa Kee Rakat Nipannay Machhee 
Maas Na KhaaNhee, Istaree Purkhai JaaN Nis Maylaa Othai ManDh 
Kamaahee”

Meat is allowed in the Puraanas, meat is allowed in the Holy books. 
Throughout the four ages, meat has been used. O Pundit, you do not 
know where meat originated. Corn, sugar cane and cotton are produced 
from water. The three worlds came from water. They are produced from 
the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or 
meat. But when men and women meet in the night, they come together 
in the flesh. 
---Guru 
Nanak, Raag Malaar, SGGS, Page, 1290

The complete Sabd translated;

First, the mortal is conceived in the flesh, and then he dwells in 
the flesh. When he comes alive, his mouth takes flesh; his bones, 
skin and body are flesh. He comes out of the womb of flesh, and 
takes a mouthful of flesh at the breast. His mouth is flesh, his 
tongue is flesh; his breath is in the flesh. He grows up and is 
married, and brings his wife of flesh into his home. Flesh is 
produced from flesh; all relatives are made of flesh. When the 
mortal meets the True Guru, and realizes the Hukam of the Lord's 
Command, then he comes to be reformed. Releasing himself, the mortal 
does not find release; O, Nanak through empty words, one is ruined.

The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about 
meditation and spiritual wisdom. What is called meat, and what is 
called green vegetables? What leads to sin? It was the habit of the 
gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering. 
Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, 
devour men at night. They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before 
other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation 
or spiritual wisdom. O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? 

They cannot answer, or even understand what is said. They alone are 
blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts. They are 
produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do 
not eat fish or meat. But when men and women meet in the night, they 
come together in the flesh. In the flesh we are conceived, and in 
the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh. You know nothing of 
spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself 
clever, O religious scholar. O master, you believe that flesh on the 
outside is bad, but the flesh of those in your own home is good. 

All beings and creatures are flesh; the soul has taken up its home 
in the flesh. They eat the uneatable; they reject and abandon what 
they could eat. They have a teacher who is blind. In the flesh we 
are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of 
flesh. You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even 
though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar. Meat is 
allowed in the Puraanas, meat is allowed in the Bible and the Koran. 
Throughout the four ages, meat has been used. It is featured in 
sacred feasts and marriage festivities; meat is used in them.
Women, men, kings and emperors originate from meat. If you see them 
going to hell, then do not accept charitable gifts from them. The 
giver goes to hell, while the receiver goes to heaven - look at this 
injustice. You do not understand your own self, but you preach to 
other people. O Pundit, you are very wise indeed. O Pundit, you do 
not know where meat originated. Corn, sugar cane and cotton are 
produced from water. The three worlds came from water. Water 
says, "I am good in many ways." But water takes many forms. 
Forsaking these delicacies, one becomes a true Sannyaasee, a 
detached hermit. Nanak reflects and speaks.

Conclusions;

Every material thing develops from water whether meat or vegetable. 
It is the remembering of the God which is important rather debating 
unnecessarily of vegetables or meat. It should be individual 
consideration to decide what is good or bad. IN SGGS 
there is no prohibition in eating or cooking meat any where. Guru 
Nanak Sahib Ji cooked deer meat at the festival of solar eclipse at Kurchetar 
to remove the doubt and superstition. Why are we Once Again falling into the same PIT of Bharam  and Superstition that Guru ji pulled us out of at Kurchetar . Vegetariansim is NOT GURMATT..it is PERSONAL CHOICE ONLY. PERIOD.

Gyani jarnail Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 18, 2006)

Gurfateh

Gurvinder Bhai Sahib can come to any of the Chhavanis of Nihungs and we will make him Sant Sipahi from Sant only but if he wants.Maryada or code of Sants is not panthic Maryada ut thier own order's code.

There should nenver be an attempt to let it be tremed as Sikh maryada.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 18, 2006)

suk352 said:


> Hello
> 
> I do not follow Sikhism very strictly, however i will certainly not eat halal meat or smoke though I do drink very occasionally.
> 
> ...


 
Gurfateh

Eat Fish,eat Pork and if have implimetns then kill goat etc.

Or smaller Animalos like Hen or Rabbit can be killed by hands by just detaching the neck or by small kitchen knife,But Single stroke.in one attempts neck to be cut and better to say Sat Sri Akal.

Some time neck may not cut by single blow then no Bharam(two minds) try to servere head as soon as possilbe as once spine is cut from brain animal will not firther feel pain.

Best of luck.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 18, 2006)

Gurfateh

If we go by pain fish has then we should not breath either as mnay animals goes and we do not knnow.

anywayn in India and in Bihar or Bengalwe go not eat dead fish ie Fish died of suffiocation.We catch the Fish alive from teh net,take it to kitchen in pot etc. and kill it just beofre cooking.live fishes ie one who can live either with Air also like Mangur are sometime killing in Karahi while cooking.

We should not use Petrolium to run our Cars nor should we build dams or even Barage on the reiver as these works say in sea may kill nay aquatic animal say during spell sof oil tankers.So in dams and in barrage mnay time we see Fishes coming out due to natural barrier and dying of suffocation.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 18, 2006)

Gurfateh

Bhai Mardana told First Master the sorrow he had after seeing fisher man killing the fish



kaur-1 said:


> As regards to being *non-halal* i.e. where an animal is not slowly and painfully bled to death thus not prolonging the agony, suffering and trauma.
> 
> What about fish? How do we know that the fish sold in the market or supermarkets have not been through a slow and painful death.?


 
Bhai Mardana told First Master the sorrow he had after seeing fisher man killing the fish

This bani Akal sent of First Master.

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ਦੂਜਾ ੨ ॥ 
सिरीरागु महला १ घरु दूजा २ ॥ 
sireeraag mehlaa 1 ghar doojaa 2. 
Siree Raag, First Mehl, Second House: 

ਆਪੇ ਰਸੀਆ ਆਪਿ ਰਸੁ ਆਪੇ ਰਾਵਣਹਾਰੁ ॥ 
आपे रसीआ आपि रसु आपे रावणहारु ॥ 
aapay rasee-aa aap ras aapay ravanhaar. 
He Himself is the Enjoyer, and He Himself is the Enjoyment. He Himself is the Ravisher of all. 

ਆਪੇ ਹੋਵੈ ਚੋਲੜਾ ਆਪੇ ਸੇਜ ਭਤਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ 
आपे होवै चोलड़ा आपे सेज भतारु ॥१॥ 
aapay hovai cholrhaa aapay sayj bhataar. ||1|| 
He Himself is the Bride in her dress, He Himself is the Bridegroom on the bed. ||1|| 

ਰੰਗਿ ਰਤਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
रंगि रता मेरा साहिबु रवि रहिआ भरपूरि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ 
rang rataa mayraa saahib rav rahi-aa bharpoor. ||1|| rahaa-o. 
My Lord and Master is imbued with love; He is totally permeating and pervading all. ||1||Pause|| 

ਆਪੇ ਮਾਛੀ ਮਛੁਲੀ ਆਪੇ ਪਾਣੀ ਜਾਲੁ ॥ 
आपे माछी मछुली आपे पाणी जालु ॥ 
aapay maachhee machhulee aapay paanee jaal. 
He Himself is the fisherman and the fish; He Himself is the water and the net. 

ਆਪੇ ਜਾਲ ਮਣਕੜਾ ਆਪੇ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਲਾਲੁ ॥੨॥ 
आपे जाल मणकड़ा आपे अंदरि लालु ॥२॥ 
aapay jaal mankarhaa aapay andar laal. ||2|| 
He Himself is the sinker, and He Himself is the bait. ||2|| 

ਆਪੇ ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਰੰਗੁਲਾ ਸਖੀਏ ਮੇਰਾ ਲਾਲੁ ॥ 
आपे बहु बिधि रंगुला सखीए मेरा लालु ॥ 
aapay baho biDh rangulaa sakhee-ay mayraa laal. 
He Himself loves in so many ways. O sister soul-brides, He is my Beloved. 

ਨਿਤ ਰਵੈ ਸੋਹਾਗਣੀ ਦੇਖੁ ਹਮਾਰਾ ਹਾਲੁ ॥੩॥ 
नित रवै सोहागणी देखु हमारा हालु ॥३॥ 
nit ravai sohaaganee daykh hamaaraa haal. ||3|| 
He continually ravishes and enjoys the happy soul-brides; just look at the plight I am in without Him! ||3|| 

ਪ੍ਰਣਵੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਤੂ ਸਰਵਰੁ ਤੂ ਹੰਸੁ ॥ 
प्रणवै नानकु बेनती तू सरवरु तू हंसु ॥ 
paranvai naanak bayntee too sarvar too hans. 
Prays Nanak, please hear my prayer: You are the pool, and You are the soul-swan. 

ਕਉਲੁ ਤੂ ਹੈ ਕਵੀਆ ਤੂ ਹੈ ਆਪੇ ਵੇਖਿ ਵਿਗਸੁ ॥੪॥੨੫॥ 
कउलु तू है कवीआ तू है आपे वेखि विगसु ॥४॥२५॥ 
ka-ul too hai kavee-aa too hai aapay vaykh vigas. ||4||25|| 
You are the lotus flower of the day and You are the water-lily of the night. You Yourself behold them, and blossom forth in bliss. ||4||25||


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## kds1980 (Nov 18, 2006)

thanks for informative post gyani ji.but now sikhism is severly divided over meat eating.the worst thing is that vegetarian sikhs from taksal and akj regularly humilate other sikhs who eat meat that they are not sikhs.recently a person started topic on sikhsangat about meat eating. he clearly wrote
that this topic is only for jhatka eating sikhs.but 4-5 persons started humilating him that he should go to muslim forum as sikhs don't eat meat.
if some sikhs have this type of attituide then i think chances of unity in panth are weak.

my grandfather was amritdhari sikh.he settled in delhi after partition .he lived
a very honest and simple gursikh life  .but he too ate meat not as an addict but once or twice in a month. thats why when i started visiting forums i was quite shocked to see humilation of meat eating sikhs.


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## Lionchild (Nov 18, 2006)

Perahps this topic should be closed then...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Nov 19, 2006)

kds1980 said:


> thanks for informative post gyani ji.but now sikhism is severly divided over meat eating.the worst thing is that vegetarian sikhs from taksal and akj regularly humilate other sikhs who eat meat that they are not sikhs.recently a person started topic on sikhsangat about meat eating. he clearly wrote
> that this topic is only for jhatka eating sikhs.but 4-5 persons started humilating him that he should go to muslim forum as sikhs don't eat meat.
> if some sikhs have this type of attituide then i think chances of unity in panth are weak.
> 
> ...


 
Dear KDS Ji,
Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji KI fateh.

As long as we are aware of what Guru Ji really says and we know our Rehat Maryada..IGNORE all such people. After ALL..its GURU NANAK JI who declared..FOOLS argue. This means that Guru Ji also faced this same "problem"...and Guru Angad ji said MOORKHAN naal na LUJHIYEAH..Dont bother about FOOLS..ignore them.

About UNITY..this very Problem about MEAT, Raagmala, and BNG offered as Dsam Granth..was Purposely PLANTED by vested interests to BRING about DISUNITY..and they succeeded. Prior to 1930s before the fast spread of RADHA SOAMI BEAS...and related Nanaksar, Namdharis etc..NO body ahd heard of daal eaters in Punjab Villages..Goats were slaughtered in public..Nihungs do it even now.( on DG, etc Nihungs and taksalis akj etc are Ghee Kchirree solidly UNITED !! BUT on MEAT eating and DRUGS they differ..Marriage of Conveneince !!) So as long as we have these "vestyed interests" pushing thier BUTTONS..there will be NO UNITY..it takes two hands to clap...

My advise is..stick to your GUNS..we know it is RIGHT.

Gyani jarnail Singh


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## Tejpal (Nov 19, 2006)

roll up roll up get your foul stinky satanic burgers freshly slaughtered hear ye hear ye :}--}:


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Nov 19, 2006)

Lionchild said:


> Perahps this topic should be closed then...


 

is that a solution ?/ unique answer ?? Then we may get Headlines in so called "Panthic Orgs"..Meat eaters LOSE Debate !!

Just Carry on..Fools argue..Wise Men EAT..

Gyani jarnail Singh


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## kaur-1 (Nov 19, 2006)

This made me laugh!.:}{}{}: The Times Newspaper has a slightly longer version on this - pg 13 headed "School in retreat on 'halal-only' Christmas.


The Times                             November 18, 2006                           
*News in Brief*

*Halal Christmas plan abandoned*  A comprehensive school has changed its mind over its plan to offer a Christmas menu featuring only chicken slaughtered in the halal tradition after some parents complained. 

NI_MPU('middle');
Oakwood School in Rotherham, South Yorkshire, will now offer a traditional turkey alternative, said Jan Charters, its headteacher. “Having listened to the concerns . . . we have agreed to provide turkey along with the halal chicken and the vegetarian option, so that we can cater for everyone,” she added. It is believed that a few parents complained to the school at which 20 per cent of the 1,070 pupils are Muslim


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## thecoopes (Nov 20, 2006)

kaur-1 said:


> This made me laugh!.:}{}{}: The Times Newspaper has a slightly longer version on this - pg 13 headed "School in retreat on 'halal-only' Christmas.
> 
> 
> The Times November 18, 2006
> ...


 

There is a madness gripping England that is hell bent on destroying us as a nation and placing Isalm as the state religion, the low life scum we have ruling our country do everything they can to suport and encourage assistance to the Muslim comunity in their islamification of Britain.
I hate everything about these leftwing dogooders.


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## kds1980 (Nov 20, 2006)

dear coopes

the muslim appeasement madness is not only spreading in england but also in india because of their large votebank.nobody cares about other minorities

one thing i don't understand is why white's attack hindu's and sikhs which are quite peaceful minorities.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 21, 2006)

Gurfateh

Bhai KDSingh JI,

If you also want to an Amritdhair and without Brahmanical restrictions and with allowing to eat meat.And if you live in Delhi.Contact das with PM.We have two Sikh institution still with old fashion of Amrit Sanskar without any wrong interpetaions.


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