# Beef Eating In Sikhism



## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 13, 2004)

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Das wants to say that yes he eats beef.

And it was decided on 14/08/2004 evening in meeting between many a Sikhs that Sikhs must eat beef.This is an ample proof that we are not Hindus.

more Detail will follow tomorrow but reply are requested.


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## Singhstah (Dec 13, 2004)

well my own opinion is that we should not eat any meat, as we should be peaceful to mankind. If any ones gonna bring up that Guroo Ji used to hunt then I will not deny that he hunted but not for his taste but to give the animal mukti.  I f anyones gonna mention how singhs ate meat in battle,think about it they were in a life or death situation,nowadays is anyone in alife or death situation wen they goe down to kfc or mcdonalds. 
bhull chuk maaf.


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## S|kH (Dec 13, 2004)

Beef is another source of meat. And meat is a non-issue in Sikhi.

Yes, you can eat beef. Yes, you can eat meat.


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## Prabjyot Kaur (Dec 14, 2004)

http://www.sikhlionz.com/donoteatmeat.htm
EATING MEAT? WHY NOT? I'LL TELL YOU WHY NOT...

Bhagat Kabir ji states: Oh Kabir, the dinner of beans and rice flavoured with rice is acceptable But who is prepared to have his throat cut [in the hereafter] for the hunted animal. [1374] 

It is a disturbing thought that many Sikhs believe that to attain spiritual enlightenment one can continue to tuck into a juicy steak, that the pain and suffering of the animal is separate to the succulent roast chicken on the table, that the cutting of the animals life force will not have a direct effect on their own 'karmic account '. Eating meat of ANY type is prohibited for a Sikh. Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (SGGS) makes various references to meat . The reason the Gurus went hunting was not for pleasure or the need to satisfy their taste buds, they were above this , it was to settle long overdue 'accounts' to release the souls of the poor unfortunate animals who may have wronged in the past, to grant them Mukti / salvation. There is a story of Guru Gobind Singh Ji who sent out his falcon to hunt an animal, once caught Guru Ji watched as the Baaj tore into the animals flesh. Asked by one of his Sikhs what was the reasoning behind this Guru ji stated that in a previous life the animal had borrowed some money from the Baaj and swore on Akal Purakhs name that he would pay it back, he never did, now was pay back time. There are many instances like this which illustrates that the Gurus were not hunting for meat but to save these souls from the continuous cycle of birth and death. In two Hukkhamnamas of Sri Guru Har Gobind Sahib Ji there are clear cut instructions prohibiting the eating of meat, fish etc. The actual words are

"Maas machhi de nerrey nahai jawnaa" Dr Gopal Singh in his History of the Sikh People. " In the Gurus kitchen (or Guru Ka Langar) meat dishes are not to be served, Giani Sher Singh in his Philosophy of Sikhism. "Kabir held the doctrine of Ahinsa or non-destruction of life, which even extended to his followers. The Sikh Gurus, on the contrary allowed and even encouraged the use of animal flesh for food.."??? Does the author go on to expand on this , does he give any evidence for this, No he does not!. Again pure conjecture and speculation from people with hidden agendas. One should step back and think for a moment what is being said here. The Gurus were pure souls, Sikhs believe them to have merged with the Akal Purkh are we then led to believe that they would tear into a chicken leg at meal time, piayrio don't even go there. Eating meat is a very primitive act and the Gurus taught us to be above this, to control our emotions and urges if we were to develop spiritually. H.S Singha in his Mini Encyclopedia of Sikhism. 'Guru Amar Das Ji ate only rice and lentils but this abstention cannot be regarded as evidence of vegetarianism, only of simple living.'??? Why cannot it be evidence of vegetarianism ? If we look at the lives of the Gurus and try to emulate as much of them as possible because we regard them as ideal living then why not this ? Now, lets get to the heart of what eating meat really means. We are talking about inflicting pain & killing another being , cutting of its flesh and muscles which that animal relied upon for its existence and consuming it, primarily for the taste. That's right, for the taste of it. We can exist quite happily without meat so why do many people feel the urge to consume it, taste plays a large part of it. Can we in our hearts believe that the Gurus advocated this? Question : Do beings get born on this earth and have living bodies just to be a convenience food ? Or do beings get born into a life with a body so that they can develop and eventually evolve away from Karma and into Dharma ? In the beginnings of SGGS , Guru Ji says : This human body has been given to you. This is your chance to meet the Lord of the Universe. Nothing else will work. Join the SaadhSangat, the company of the holy. Vibrate and meditate on the Jewel on the Naam. Make every effort to cross over this terrifying world-ocean. Your are squandering this life uselessly in the love of Maya I have not practiced meditation, self discipline, Self restraint or righteous living. I have not served the holy; I have not acknowledged the Lord, my king. Says Nanak, my actions are contemptible! O Lord, I seek Your Sanctuary, please preserve my honour. The 'body' is given to all in order to meet Akal Purkh and the Guru says that there is no other way to meet him. By killing a healthy animal for consumption interrupts its life experience and its evolution towards meeting God. Animals can sense impending doom especially if they can hear the death throws of their colleagues having a 'bolt' driven into their skulls in the shed next door. This can evoke a very powerful glandular response in the animal and hormones are pumped into its body. When you eat that flesh you take on those hormones, and of course its Karma. This has a great effect on your Atma, for the Atma feels pain. By adding the karma of that soul to yours you are also interfering with your own desire to meet the Lord of the Universe. If you have not cleared away your own Karma why would you want to create the Karma of killing and consuming the flesh of another being ? Sikhs do not eat or take into their bodies anything which is harmful or have an ill effect upon the body or mind. Meat is a stimulant of the gross passions of the mind and body. Meat is harmful on a physical, mental and spiritual level. You are killing a soul who is in the process of evolving towards God. Meat stimulates your 'lower nature' making it impossible to achieve a meditative spiritual mind set. If you want constant confusion and irritation then chew on a piece of flesh. If on the other hand you want to evolve spiritually , open up the capacity for meditative comprehension of higher truths then the karmic and polluting nature of meat cannot be ignored. It is said by many that plants also have life so why do we not abstain from eating plants ? It is very true that plants do have life but the karmic energy and consequences of eating plants do not compare to those of an animal which has nervous systems; feeling, possible thoughts, parental instincts towards is offspring. Also plants ( and I am talking about the normal ones that we eat - lentils, maize , spinach etc) are not harmful on a mental, spiritual level but are in fact good for the digestion. Much has been made of the Nihang Singh sect eating Maha Parshad, but the Nihangs also drink a concoction of Marihuana and opium called Suckha, are we all to start taking drugs because of this? 

They (the truest of the true) burn away the bonds of the world, And eat a simple diet of grain and water. (SGGS p467) 

Kabir, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. (SGGS p1337) 

You kill living beings and worship lifeless things, at your very last moment, You will suffer terrible pain. (SGGS p332)

Do not say that the Vedas are false, false are those who do not reflect. If in all is one god, then why does one kill the hen ? (SGGS p1350)

Sayeth Kabir, that the best food is eating kichree (daal/lentils) where nectar sweet is the salt. You eat hunted meat, but which animal is willing to have their head cut ? (SGGS p1378) 

In this dark age of Kali Yuga, people have faces like dogs; They eat rotting dead bodies for food. (SGGS p1242 The Vars of Bhai Gurdas Ji are known as the 'kunji' (key) to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Var 31 pauree 9 : "Just because the Guru has saved the butcher,That does not mean that we can kill animals and eat them." 

A final thought, the Sants and Mahapursh of the present day all warn us of the evils of eating meat. They all urge us to take Pahul/Amrit and to give up maas, shraab and birri. Not one Sant has ever said otherwise. As a young lad I can just remember the times when Sant Baba Puran Singh Ji (Krichowali) used to administer Amrit to hundreds to people up and down the country and they never ever condoned meat eating. In recent times I have also been blessed by darshans of Sant Baba Bhagwan Singh Ji (Southall), not once have they ever even entertained the notion of meat and Sikhism. Surely, being spiritually on a higher plain then all of us if there was any ambiguity in the 'meat - no meat' argument Baba ji would have stated it. But instead they are fiercely against meat. So who are we going to believe, Sant Mahapurshs or some academic manmukh ? Do we eat to live, or do we live to eat ? 

ASK YOURSELF WHY DO YOU DARE EAT MEAT?


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## Arvind (Dec 14, 2004)

> And it was decided on 14/08/2004 evening in meeting between many a Sikhs that Sikhs must eat beef.This is an ample proof that we are not Hindus.


I find this very disturbing. For Sure, meat is meat. Kill your own child, cut into pieces, boil, marinate and then eat. How sick does that feel? Eat others from animal kingdom just because you dont feel any association with that? Eat beef just to prove sikhs are not Hindus. What nonsense?

Singho, Realize better goals like Sarbat da Bhala, instead of creating more and more confusion. On a personal note, do whatever one wants, but dont force that onto others, by saying 'YES', this is all fine, you should do it, etc.

Bhul chuk maaf.


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## drkhalsa (Dec 14, 2004)

Dear Singh ji

I think this topic has gone the wrong way as it was meant for some thing else 

It is common Hindu propaganda that as hindu (including  jain)is the only vegetarian faith in the world  and as sikhs also dont eat meat a it is prohibited ( according to their propaganda) to sikhs They are just a sector of hindu religon and they commonly use misinterpretaion of gurbani for that for example 


bRhmx kYlI Gwqu kM\kw AxcwrI kw Dwnu ]

brehaman k*ai*l*ee* gh*aa*th ka(n)n(j)ak*aa* anach*aa*r*ee* k*aa* dhh*aa*n ||

_If a Brahmin kills a cow or a female infant, and accepts the offerings of an evil person,_

​iPtk iPtkw koVu bdIAw sdw sdw AiBmwnu ]

f*i*ttak f*i*ttak*aa* k*o*rr badh*eeaa* sadh*aa* sadh*aa* abh*i*m*aa*n ||

_he is cursed with the leprosy of curses and criticism; he is forever and ever filled with egotistical pride._






Same is the case with some of our sikhs they try to fit gurbani into their thoughts to say what ever they want to say 

So the thing is to eat beef as decided by sikhs and told by Vijaydeep was put it straight in front of every body that we think of the issue of beef eating 

One more thing some of our respected singh ji usually give this argument that as hindu living in Punjab dont like cow to be cut and eaten so we as sign of brother hood should not eat beef this seems to me a total nonesense 

To respect the nonesense belief of hindu for which even they dont have any explanation sikhs should not eat Beef 
while on the other hand In city of amrotsar you can see KHoKHA or kiosk for pan and bhiri at each and every nook and corner they dont even care not to use tobbaco even around the harimandir sahib Should they not quit smoking while living in Amritsar as sign of brother hood to sikhs as it is clearly against tenants of sikhi to smoke 


Final base line is yes we sikhs just want to be very humble and cooperative to every one around us but dont forget that every body around you may not be as humble so if you  dont want to look at the crap and filth they are puting on us ok dont do any thing  but then atleast  let some body else do it 


Bul Chul MAf


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 15, 2004)

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Das was about to complelte the thing yesterday but did not have the time so as it happenen let it follow,


For the people who sit overseas and comment it easy but they do not have to face problem what the Panth is facing at Punjab and India.Das did not talk about meat eating here but as all are aware Das has already done a research on this issue and this site also has lot more new thing said see the link bleow and you will found it.

Das request that meat related topics are to be discuused in meat forum.

So let das talk about what happened that day.

It was first thought by S. Darshan Singh Ji to get rid of Hindutva we must eat beef.

Then when Respected KC Sudershan Ji wanted to install Guru Granth Sahib Ji in all hindu Temples of Punjab,so that like budhists stoppped to get neo converts at pasat as hindus too kept temporaryly idols of Budha in there temples.Sameway here as Adi Guru Darbar will be in temple,

Like an idol it will be worshipped and both hindus and Sikhs too will start to come to temple nad Sandat of Gurudwara will reduce to zero.

At that time many Veg Jathas seeing it as life and death situation said

Mass Gau ka Kayenge hum hindu nahin Kahayenge

We will eat beef for not let us be called Hindus.

RSS ate a humble pie and said that it was someother Sudershan singh Chuhan(a fake person),yet stuck to guns that what he said was OK(Hight of hypocracy).

There are a Many hindus like from Bajrang Dal,Hindu Mahasabha etc.Who want welfare of all,Do not descriminate between any hindu or non hindu they are worthy to be worshipped by person like das.

They said,Sikh Regiment should not be divied on caste in Indian Army,Exceelent idea,
They said,Gold or omy must not be used to decorate Gurudwaras but Money be used to preach and to service of mankind.

If Daswanth of das goes to Vanvasi Kalyan Parishad then there is nothing wrong.

BUT Problem come with Rashtrya Sikh Sangat.

They had there cadre intrueded deep into SGPC either via fake conversion or by bribe.

At that meeting as Das was supporting the correct translation of Dasham  Granth,Somecalled him as a fake convertee,agent of hindus.

Das can say that many old hindu script and many present day hindus eat beef but an RSS men will never.They call cow Aghnya(non to be killed) as per Vedas but Aghnaya mean(who kill no one,that could be a rabbit too).

They took page no perhaps 1413 of Guru Granth Ji to preach that Guru Granth Sahib Ji too say to protect cow and Brahmin(DRKHALSA will give the true meaning).They said Gangu does not exist just to say that old misl Sikhs were Hindus as per hinduism's manusamriti Brahman can not be killed by a hindu

BUT this makes Rama as non hindu as he killed Brahmin Ravana or Laxman killed Meghnad or Dhristdhuman(Brother of Mata Draupadi too) killed Dronacharya(Maney such things are in Dasham Granth).

They want to tell more to patit or clean shaven about Amrit is false or Devi Mata was worshipped by Guru Gobind Singh Ji,

They take a verse from Dasham Guru Darbar(in accepted version it is not)

There in reality Guru is addressing Akal and no Devi. Term they call Goghat realy means to suppresess/put sense(Go) Ghat(Sense) cow killing has to be GauGHAAT(Gau ie cow) and Ghaat(killing).

They say that as per Adi Guru Darbar Rama Krishana And Guru Nanak were one,Yes it is ture,But in the episode of Krishana visitng InderPrstha,He goes for a hunt with Pandavas and one type of animal(other animal to are difined) he killed is termed as Goien(it is cow and not nilgai).

Gurudev himself writes that he killed Nilgai(rojh) in areas around Paonta(Vachitar Natak perhaps ,see the research done by Das).Hindu treat Nilgai as cow.It is matter of faith.Cow is cow and at that time As per Gurudev he to did thing against the faith of hindus by killing nilgai.

So the very same Dasham Granth RSS was trying to use against us has become the lat nail in coffin of hindutva.Sikh did not ask them to tell that Gurus were from the generation of Rama ,who at next birth of Krishan kills cow and in same birth kills Brahmin.

So at present

Dalkhalsa(Dalkhalsa.org) are telling to punjab government to lift Ban on cow slughter,

Beef can be exported,
Hungery men of orrisa may get food of it,
Machnaisation of agriculture made many people unemployed they can get job in sloghter houses.
The presure of usless cattle will make fields more productive.
Beef eating otherwise is not banned and any one can but animal killed abroad and eat it.Many hotels of Calcutta Delhi,mumabai etc. serve beef.

If hindus still can use tobbaco in Sikh domnated Punjab,Then what it wrong in our beef eating.

Either hindus do something for these cows(but in Gaishala,money for cattle feed is more a wastage as this could be diverted to hindus dying of hunger).

Or else it is better to be used.Tractor is sold in scrap so ox which is old can be sold to butcher.Cow is like any other animal after all.

So it is better that hindus in Punjab either take care of cows and stop using tobacco else majority is in that route.

To all who teach us to be calm,When idealogical attacks are on you,As attack was doen in Muktsar,GuruJi 's Singhs did retaliated.

Das again say that Das is not against common Hindus but these hindutva parties have done such a thing that turmoil due to there childish action is about to return in Punjab.

Akal bless Hindu,Sikhs and all mankind.Let matters are sorted out peacefully.

Yes Das dares to eat beef and meat,Das is not an agent RSS if he reads Dasham Granth Ji,Das is Agent of Akal.And by will of Akal,Akal's verbal manifestation and By blessing of Guru Panth Das does dare to eat meat and beef.

Below it das only wants beef realted replys for meat thread is differnt.

Das will repeat,it is easy to go in front of Indian high commission or embassy with posters each years.To live in there Majority Area and fight to  survie,When idealogical attackeas are being made and young one are tried to be made non Sikhs(it is matter of life and death for Panth).

Budhism went out of India,survied in other budhist states so it is back by BR Ambedkar and is headache to Hindutva.

But Rasheterya Sikh Sangat is trying to absoerbes Sikhs in foregn Country by making Rashterya Sikh Sangat of USA.Norrw mined defincive can not do anything to counter them.

Only fearless Nihungs called agent of RSS because they know VEDAs better them Hindus and they love hindus as they love Sikhs are called intruder.

Forgive das if wrong is said.

For meat issue come to this link below:

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/threads/guru-ki-maseet.309/


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## Platinum007 (Jan 17, 2005)

I'll be honest with you guys, i've studied this whole thing about not eating mean. there is some good reasons as to why not. but wouldn't you think God put chickens, cows, goats on earth for a reason. lets take for example a Cow, it eats grass all day, has a big body.. add two and two and see where i'm going?


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## Platinum007 (Jan 17, 2005)

sorry i also fogot to mention it came to humans as a SECOND NATURE to eat meat. just like sex, there was no instuctions provided to humans as to how to have sex its pretty much second nature.. When God first put man on earth and man saw a chicken it was pretty much second nature as to whats suppose to happen.


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## CaramelChocolate (Jan 17, 2005)

Singhstah said:
			
		

> peaceful to mankind ...hunted but not for his taste but to give the animal mukti


Do you mean peaceful to all beings? Well if so, then it is not peaceful to kill an animal on grounds of giving it mukti... and besides animals cannot understand the concept of a God so how can they merge with him? You have to be in human body before you can merge with God. 

I say - in Sikhism you CAN eat meat since there is NO specific command telling you that it is forbidden. Langar is vegetarian so all can eat there [from Muslim to Hindu]. Guru Amar Das Ji ate only rice and lentils because he was a former Vaishnav, all his life he had been a vegetarian so I guess he just never considered eating meat. The principle of Sikhism is that ALL can reach God, meat-eater, non meat-eater, gay, straight, white, black, ramgharia, jatt, Muslim, Hindu... ANYONE... Sikhism teaches that devotion is the most important thing and without that devotion in the heart you will get nowhere.


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## SinghGur (Jan 18, 2005)

"I'll be honest with you guys, i've studied this whole thing about not eating mean. there is some good reasons as to why not. but wouldn't you think God put chickens, cows, goats on earth for a reason. lets take for example a Cow, it eats grass all day, has a big body.. add two and two and see where i'm going?"

 i know this is forum is for questions on sikhism, but i have one question for the above statement. i can understand how your thinking, but can you explain why GOD put snakes, insects, and other animals that humans don't consume.
 also why is it that muslims don't eat pork, and why did GOD put pigs on earth.   I hope I don't sound offensive, my just trying to understand how you think. 

 regards


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## Singhstah (Jan 18, 2005)

CaramelChocolate said:
			
		

> Singhstah said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## CaramelChocolate (Jan 18, 2005)

Then the whole concept of actually working as a human, rebirth [reincarnation] and striving to be with God through prayers and worship is destroyed, the concept of morality is destroyed if mukti becomes that easy.


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## Amarpal (Jan 19, 2005)

Dear Khalsa Ji,

In absolute sense of the word none of the humans is vegitarian. Milk is not a product of vegitable origin, which all of us consume. Curd has live bacterias, multiplying in it, which we eat. Humans are non-vegitarians, only the degree varies.

Cow for historical reasons have been revered by a large portion of Indian society. On the other hand, Pig is an animal, which is abhored by another section of our society. Each of this section of our society has adequate reasons for doing so. In pluralistic society like ours, we have to respect others believes to maintain harmony and social order. We ourselves may or may not follow what they do or do not do. Their belives are their's, we have clash with them.

As a Khlasa, for me, meat is the product of animal origin. All animals have life. A piece of meat, to me, denotes a lost life. The same way a grain also conveys to me that a plants life is geting terminated.

It is for individual Khalsa to decide what she or he wants to eat. Sikhi does not lay down any stipulations for it. It depend on individuals frame of mind. There need not be any concensous on this issue. Literature suggest that Guru Nanak Dev Ji has eaten meat (Refer History of Sikhs by Dr Gopal Singh).

I do not go in search of non-vegitarian food preparations. If such food comes my way for eating, I do not ask the name of the animal nor do I eat more than what is needed by me to sustain my life.

The main logic behind what I do is my realisation that 'The Sat' has not equipped we humans to synthesise our own food from non-living ingradients as 'The Sat' has done in the case of the plants. We live as parasites on some other life form. When ever I eat some thing, I know that I have terminated some life for to sustain my own life; it may be an animal or a plant, both of which are life forms. For me a seed or egg both are potential lives, only the forms are different, in essence they are same.This way for me food of vegitable origin and of animal origin, both are same.

I consider eating for living (vegitable or items of non-veg) as normal part of living as breathing. Eating more that what is needed or wasting food both, in my opinion, are sins, as we are withdrawing more from the nature than what we are entitled to for sustaining life in us. If I do so, I damage the nature more than is necessary. Damaging nature is not permitted by Sikhi as the Shalok immidiately after the Japji Sahib suggests. I had elaborated on this Shalok in 'My understanding of Japji Sahib' posted on this net.

Khalsa, in my opinion, should eat that provides her or him proper nourishment, which goes well with her or his contitution, that does not disturb her of his conscience and does not make her or him feel guilty.

Khalsas are knowledgeable empowered individuals, they can take their own decisions.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh


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## Singhstah (Jan 19, 2005)

> Then the whole concept of actually working as a human, rebirth [reincarnation] and striving to be with God through prayers and worship is destroyed, the concept of morality is destroyed if mukti becomes that easy.



you see we dont work as humans we dont do anything, its Guroo Sahib's kirpa that does everything, so its up to him wat he does he has no rules to follow


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## drkhalsa (Jan 19, 2005)

> sorry i also fogot to mention it came to humans as a SECOND NATURE to eat meat. just like sex, there was no instuctions provided to humans as to how to have sex its pretty much second nature.. When God first put man on earth and man saw a chicken it was pretty much second nature as to whats suppose to happen.




Yes I agree with you ina sense that when man was not very civilised it would have come as second nature to eat animal to fill you stomach but it is not always the case with some religions like in Islam you have to close your open mind when you see a PIG ,Donkey and then you cant think of eating it as a second nature and if you think so you are doing a great great sin and it is such ataboo that it was considered evil to see and even talk about pig was considered sin as nullifies your prayers amounting to 40 days ( as believed in northern part of INDIA AND PAKISTAN) 

so you see open mind and thinking go narrow many times and you ask more about this to islamic scholar and even website you were advising


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## Platinum007 (Jan 19, 2005)

SinghGur said:
			
		

> "I'll be honest with you guys, i've studied this whole thing about not eating mean. there is some good reasons as to why not. but wouldn't you think God put chickens, cows, goats on earth for a reason. lets take for example a Cow, it eats grass all day, has a big body.. add two and two and see where i'm going?"
> 
> i know this is forum is for questions on sikhism, but i have one question for the above statement. i can understand how your thinking, but can you explain why GOD put snakes, insects, and other animals that humans don't consume.
> also why is it that muslims don't eat pork, and why did GOD put pigs on earth. I hope I don't sound offensive, my just trying to understand how you think.
> ...


hehe, i didn't take any offence to anything you said, i think its wonderful to have a debate and learn more, after all i'm here to learn from you and others.. from your piont of view i maybe wrong and if proven wrong i'll agree with you 

anyways its not only muslims who don't eat pork Jews don't as well, and neither are chirstains suppose to.. the reason behind this is because the pig doesn't dispell of its urine acids into the open rather a large amount of it is kept in the blood, hense the reason some times pork tastes the way it does compared to other animals that release more of this urine acids.. i'm sure if you go to your local library and do some research on the pigs anatomany (sp?) you'll see what i'm talking about, thats why muslims and jews have a special way of treating animals after its been slaughted, hense the reason why mulsims can eat Kosure meat..so that most of the blood can be drawn out of the animal. Future more, the reasons we don't eat other animals like snakes, lions, etc etc. is because by nature humans wouldn't eat a RED plant, that is the colour of danger.. humans naturally saw the danger in some animals and choose not to consume then.. future more the pig was a orential diety which the west happened to quickly adapt, don't quote me on this but i'm pretty sure indians from india didn't eat pork 200 years ago for this reason.


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## Platinum007 (Jan 19, 2005)

drkhalsa said:
			
		

> Yes I agree with you ina sense that when man was not very civilised it would have come as second nature to eat animal to fill you stomach but it is not always the case with some religions like in Islam you have to close your open mind when you see a PIG ,Donkey and then you cant think of eating it as a second nature and if you think so you are doing a great great sin and it is such ataboo that it was considered evil to see and even talk about pig was considered sin as nullifies your prayers amounting to 40 days ( as believed in northern part of INDIA AND PAKISTAN)
> 
> so you see open mind and thinking go narrow many times and you ask more about this to islamic scholar and even website you were advising


I'm sorry if i came to offend your thinking towards Islam, you can think any way you want about a particlur relgion, i choose NOT too.. when a Muslims makes uneducated or narrow minded remarks i would respond to him/her in the same fashion as i would to a sikh, here is a reason why i respect what this individual said at many levels.



> In pluralistic society like ours, we have to respect others believes to maintain harmony and social order. We ourselves may or may not follow what they do or do not do. Their belives are their's, we have clash with them.


As for muslims/jews/ and even christains not allowed to eat pork i stated it above and its been proven in modern day society behind there reasoning why not too.. but on the other hand a muslim CAN eat a pig if it comes down to it (life and death situation) just to clarify for you
no, i'm not taking any side, if your offended the fact I protect some muslim beliefs are because the same reasons i would protect sikhi, hindu, jewish beleifes... the only reason your thinking open minded go narrow is because open minds take a side after a careful analysis.


that northen india/pakistan statement clearly shows a varible in a CULTURAL views of a religion... not THE religion, it if was religion it would be more rampant in other muslim cultures as well 
hoping to hear from you.. 

btw, i did not advertise any muslim site, all i did was point out a site that i visit as well, to an individual that i thought indirectly would be interested in learning something, if he had asked for a jewish site i would have provided one i frequent as well... 

so its nothing about advertising a particlur religion, i'm not here to do that.. but if asked i don't mind providing information i know about a particular relgion.. if there was more remarks and thoughts about the jewish/chirtain/hindu community you would hear me voicing my opion in the same fashion i voice my opinion about Islam... i hope i didn't come off to offend you in any way as i respect fully as a brother or sister and we all know its not always the case brothers/sisters will agree on something


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## SinghGur (Jan 20, 2005)

Thank you Platinum for the response.  I can understand your reasoning for not eating pork.  Also I learned back in the day people didn't eat pigs because  people used to  get really sick because pigs contained parasites such as tape worms and hook worms.  

 But to go back to the topic about meat eating.  Initially your logic behind why we should eat meat is because why else would God put cows, chickens on earth.  I can understand why you humans didn't eat lions, snakes and squirrels.  But then what is their purpose.  Why did God put them on earth.


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## Platinum007 (Jan 20, 2005)

yes, those are other reasons why muslims/jews/christains are not suppose to eat pork. Pigs are also known to eat their own fecies that are days if not weeks old.

To be honest, I don't have a definete answer to that question, Currently i'm busy with my acidemics, so reserach time is limited. But to answer that question based on what i THINK and imagine, i guess it would be more along the lines of what we find desirable. This isn't the best example but Lions naturally hunt zibra's... Some animals in this world have a natural prey. Could we be the same??
As for why God put other animals on this earth i would imagine it would be for our enjoyment and a way for us to feel like we are not alone.. what would this world be without monkeys, whales, exotic looking fish.. when i watch the discovery channel i can only admir the creation God has made.


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## Platinum007 (Jan 20, 2005)

Future more, if a Lion can eat zebra's.. wouldn't it be part of the food chain?.. in no way are humans effecting the natural resources if we consume meat within MODERATION, rather then what we have today.

just a thought........


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## SinghGur (Jan 20, 2005)

Sorry but that agruement of yours fails.  Heribovores like cows are aslo part of the food chain and are just as important.  Also do you know if we didn't genetically modified cows, chickens which make them grow bigger (we have to do this cause meat consumption is really high) they would become extinct and this would have detrimental effects on the environment because these animals are part of the food chain and this in turn would affect us.


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## Platinum007 (Jan 20, 2005)

I think you overlooked what i said, i agree with you fully
BUT,

I never said cows arn't part of the food chain, or part of the food chain... 
Yes i know the food we eat today is genetically modified. thats why i said eating such animals in MODERATION is what is needed, today we have 50 billion McDonalds, KFC in a city (sarcasim) at a macro economics level such genetic modification is required to satisfy the food industry. I beleive its unetical but its how society is right now.

All i'm saying is within moderation and the right amount of breading of these animals humans can eat livestock and not effect the anything. We just need to find a perfect equaliberiam. 
Just like the example of a Lion eating a Zibera.. does the Zibera need to be genetically modified?.. is it extinct?.. NO.. the Lion eats just enough.. Meat is a very much of a healthy diet, but to much of one thing leads to problems like the ones you just stated..

all i'm saying is do it in moderation, and find that perfect equaliberiam point like other species in the food chain do. Sadly enough the problem is humans just came along and abused the whole system.


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## SinghGur (Jan 20, 2005)

Its looks like were online at the same time. 

 Yes, I misread your post.  So I guess you agree that God just didn't put cows, chickens for us to eat, they actually are apart of the food chain and we need them to make it work properly.  Right now the situation is that where abusing it, so wouldn't you think it would be better off if we were vegeterians in the first place.  I mean a lot of the kinds of meat we eat isn't really good for us, Even scientists are always saying this.  Recently I watching the news where studies showed that eating red meat can lead to cancer.  Even eating the most other kinds of meat, the risks usually outweigh the benefits.  Also studies show that vegeterians are much healthier than meat eaters.  

 But I do think some things like fish are ok to eat because it is actually healthly for us.  I remember reading that eating fish once a week actually does a lot of good to you, but people are overconsuming and its leading to a lot of them becoming extinct.  So i guess we do agree on one thing that meat consumption should be reduced.


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## Pukandi Baba (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm a carnivore trying to give up meat! 

Now the original question was regarding beef eating. Sikhs are not supposed to eat meat, any meat! If one does consume then beef should not be avoided. Hindu thought is the 'Dhaul' the bull rests the world upon it's thorns thus why the hindus don't eat cows. Now why would i find a cow to be sacred? are all animals not made by God!


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## Randip Singh (May 16, 2006)

Pukandi Baba said:
			
		

> I'm a carnivore trying to give up meat!
> 
> Now the original question was regarding beef eating. Sikhs are not supposed to eat meat, any meat! !


 
With all due respect, you are talking utter nonsense!!

Rehit Marayada says Sikhs can eat meat.

If a Sikh wants to eat beef then that is up to him/her.


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## Randip Singh (May 16, 2006)

SinghGur said:
			
		

> Its looks like were online at the same time.
> 
> Yes, I misread your post. So I guess you agree that God just didn't put cows, chickens for us to eat, they actually are apart of the food chain and we need them to make it work properly. Right now the situation is that where abusing it, so wouldn't you think it would be better off if we were vegeterians in the first place. I mean a lot of the kinds of meat we eat isn't really good for us, Even scientists are always saying this. Recently I watching the news where studies showed that eating red meat can lead to cancer. Even eating the most other kinds of meat, the risks usually outweigh the benefits. Also studies show that vegeterians are much healthier than meat eaters.
> 
> But I do think some things like fish are ok to eat because it is actually healthly for us. I remember reading that eating fish once a week actually does a lot of good to you, but people are overconsuming and its leading to a lot of them becoming extinct. So i guess we do agree on one thing that meat consumption should be reduced.


 
You eat too many Carbs eg potatoes, ad you will have problems. Eat too much fibre and you will have problems. Eat too much protein (meat/vegetable) you will have problems.

Have a balanced diet, to suit your own needs.


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## Lionchild (May 16, 2006)

i dunno who keeps revivin ghtisthreads, but htis one willbe closed too.


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## Pukandi Baba (May 17, 2006)

randip singh said:
			
		

> With all due respect, you are talking utter nonsense!!
> 
> Rehit Marayada says Sikhs can eat meat.
> 
> If a Sikh wants to eat beef then that is up to him/her.


 
We can debate this until  the cows come home (No pun intended)  

We can find the necessary quotes in regard to not eating meat in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji - But like Guru Ji says only the fools debate what is meat and what is not.  let's leave it at that shall we!


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## Randip Singh (May 17, 2006)

Pukandi Baba said:
			
		

> We can debate this until the cows come home (No pun intended)
> 
> We can find the necessary quotes in regard to not eating meat in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji - But like Guru Ji says only the fools debate what is meat and what is not. let's leave it at that shall we!


 
Agreed.....and it is up to each and everyone of us to find Waheguru within ourselves.


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## jegi (Oct 30, 2009)

Well it is up 2 the individuals sikhs whether they do or dont .... There are alot of alternative meats: Chicken.Lamb,Pork,Mutton n Goat as we all know crosses over 2 all religious boundaries n the most important issue as long as the animal is killed in humane n a effective manner like say "one blow kills it dead" ...... jegi ....


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## jasbirkaleka (Jan 24, 2010)

mad:Why quote Kabir and not Baba Nanak ji.He is the founder of Sikhism and only his writings set the parameter and everythiing else should pass the litmus-test of Guru Nanak"s bani.


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## sikh Engineer (Jan 24, 2010)

vijaydeep Singh said:


> Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh
> 
> Das wants to say that yes he eats beef.
> 
> ...


 

yes i also agree with you brother but beef should jatka


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