# What Is "NAAM" ?



## Archived_Member16 (Aug 25, 2007)

*This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 189 *


*gauVI mhlw 5 ] *
*nwmu Bgq kY pRwn ADwru ] *
*nwmo Dnu nwmo ibauhwru ]1] *
*nwm vfweI jnu soBw pwey ] *
*kir ikrpw ijsu Awip idvwey ]1] rhwau ] *
*nwmu Bgq kY suK AsQwnu ] *
*nwm rqu so Bgqu prvwnu ]2] *
*hir kw nwmu jn kau DwrY ] *
*swis swis jnu nwmu smwrY ]3] *
*khu nwnk ijsu pUrw Bwgu ] *
*nwm sMig qw kw mnu lwgu ]4]49]118]*


*gourree mehalaa 5 || *
*naam bhagath kai praan adhhaar || *
*naamo dhhan naamo biouhaar ||1|| *
*naam vaddaaee jan sobhaa paaeae || *
*kar kirapaa jis aap dhivaaeae ||1|| rehaao || *
*naam bhagath kai sukh asathhaan || *
*naam rath so bhagath paravaan ||2|| *
*har kaa naam jan ko dhhaarai || *
*saas saas jan naam samaarai ||3|| *
*kahu naanak jis pooraa bhaag || *
*naam sa(n)g thaa kaa man laag ||4||49||118|| *


*Gauree, Fifth Mehla: *

*The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is the Support of the breath of life of His devotees. *
*The Naam is their wealth, the Naam is their occupation. ||1|| *
*By the greatness of the Naam, His humble servants are blessed with glory. *
*The Lord Himself bestows it, in His Mercy. ||1||Pause|| *
*The Naam is the home of peace of His devotees. *
*Attuned to the Naam, His devotees are approved. ||2|| *
*The Name of the Lord is the support of His humble servants. *
*With each and every breath, they remember the Naam. ||3|| *
*Says Nanak, those who have perfect destiny *
*- their minds are attached to the Naam. ||4||49||118|| *

*source: *
*http://www.sikhitothemax.com/Page.asp?SourceID=G&PageNo=&ShabadID=569&Format=2*


*ArQ:- (hy BweI! ijs mnu`K dy ihrdy ivc prmwqmw dw) nwm hY, auh mnu`K (lok prlok ivc) vifAweI hwsl krdw hY; soBw K`tdw hY (pr ieh hir-nwm ausy mnu`K ƒ imldw hY) ijs ƒ imhr kr ky prmwqmw Awp (gurU pwsoN) idvWdw hY [1[rhwau[ *

*BgqI krn vwly mnu`K dy ihrdy ivc prmwqmw dw nwm aus dI izMdgI dw shwrw hY, nwm hI aus dy vwsqy Dn hY, qy nwm hI aus dy vwsqy (AslI) vxj-vpwr hY [1[ *

*prmwqmw dw nwm Bgq dy ihrdy ivc Awqmk Awnµd dyx dw vsIlw hY [ jyhVw mnu`K prmwqmw dy nwm-rMg ivc rMigAw hoieAw hY, auhI Bgq hY [ auh prmwqmw dI hzUrI ivc kbUl hY [2[ *

*prmwqmw dw nwm (prmwqmw dy) syvk ƒ shwrw dyNdw hY, syvk Awpxy iek iek swh dy nwl prmwqmw dw nwm (Awpxy ihrdy ivc) sWB ky r`Kdw hY [3[ *

*hy nwnk! AwK—ijs mnu`K dI v`fI iksmq huMdI hY, aus dw (hI) mn prmwqmw dy nwm nwl prcdw hY [4[49[118[*

*source: http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan1/0189.html*


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## Sherab (Aug 25, 2007)

Naam is the name of the lord.

You can probably use any of the thousand given in Japu Sahib.


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## harpreetsingh (Sep 5, 2007)

*Quoted from the original Post*

*ArQ:- (hy BweI! ijs mnu`K dy ihrdy ivc prmwqmw dw) nwm hY, auh mnu`K (lok prlok ivc) vifAweI hwsl krdw hY; soBw K`tdw hY (pr ieh hir-nwm ausy mnu`K ƒ imldw hY) ijs ƒ imhr kr ky prmwqmw Awp (gurU pwsoN) idvWdw hY [1[rhwau*

The above if translated would mean:

As per the above Translation [last line]
The Naam of the Lord [Har/Hari] is obtained by those person on whom He showers HIs grace and HE Himself gets it obtained from the Guru.
*----------------------------------------------------------------*
Conclusion.:
1.
It would appear that GOD and Guru are not the same.
2.
As HE himself gets it obtained from the Guru, it would also imply that that probably, 'Waheguru' is not the Naam that is being referred to.

It cannot be correct.
As a conclusion it would appear that either the translation is incorrect or my appreciation. The chances are that my appreciation is incorrect as my knowledge is very limited and hence the vision is myopic as I cannot see beyond this line.

Would like to be corrected by anyone.
Thanks


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## adeep646 (Sep 5, 2007)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

When there was nothing before creation. There was Waheguru Ji Himeself. 
when he decided to play this Game; he *spoke this sound* that came from His Muk (mouth) is called *Naam.*
In the Guru Granth Sahib Ji this is metioned as "*Kavao*" in the punjabi language from Japji Sahib as "*Eko Kavao Tis Te Hoi Lak Dariao*". 
and other names for this Shabad - Naam are 
"*Seige Dun*" from "*Tera Mukh Suhava Seige Dun Bani*"
"*Anhad Bani*"  "*Othe Anhad Shabad Vaje Din Rati Gurmati Shabd Sunavinia* ""*Shacha Shabad*" "*Panch Shabad*" from Japji "Panch
*Parvan Panch Pardan Panch Pave Darge Mann*"
this Naam is within us "*Nau Nid Amrit Prab Ka Nam Dehi Me Is Ka Bisram*"
we have to do simran to find this and connect to it and attuin our Manns to Naam.
this *Naam is Hukam*. "*Eko Nam Hukam He"* when we will be perfectly attuin to this day and night "_*Ande Naam Visarie Na Tis Eh Na Oh*_" our Mann will become clean "*Nanak Nam Vase Mann Antar Gurmukh Mel Chukavnia*" 

visit *Simran.info (Meditation Information)* this *Simran.info* site is very helpful in understanding the Gurbani listen to the Akath Katha in whole.


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## harpreetsingh (Sep 9, 2007)

adeep646 said:


> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
> 
> When there was nothing before creation. There was Waheguru Ji Himeself.
> when he decided to play this Game; he *spoke this sound* that came from His Muk (mouth) is called *Naam.*
> ...


 
*
Respected Adeep ji,

It is an informative post. Very many thanks for the same.

Would you kindly guide as to what is that 'Naam' that we should meditate upon and as to how do we come to know of it. Kindly provide the reference of the approved Bani's, if possible else ignore. You may give your comments. That would suffice.

It is also requested that you may kindly reply to the questions that I have posed in the earlier post. I shall be oblidged. I am stuck up at Naam.
Please do reply.
Thanks


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## Astroboy (Sep 9, 2007)

We have the testimony of
Guru Arjan :

Naam is the life-principle in all that lives,
Naam is the foundation-stone of the Cosmos with its divisions.
Naam is the Creator of Heavens and nether lands,
Naam is the Manifester of all forms.
Naam is the sub-strata of all regions,
Naam is the liberator from all bondage. 
The various Khandas or planes exist because of Naam and different Yugas or
classifications of time owe their origin to Naam

He is all in all Himself and revels in His creation by supporting it by Shabd.      
Basant M.1 
                  GURU NANAK 


There is none like Thee in the entire creation, 
In Thy Word Thou art manifesting Thyself. 
Whatever Thou wishest, that comes to pass. 
Asa M.4       GURU RAM DAS


Both the creation and the dissolution are from Shabd, 
And Shabd again is the cause of re-creation. 
Majh M.3     GURU AMAR DAS​


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## adeep646 (Sep 9, 2007)

In the Gurbani Guru, Naam is the hidden treasure within the body . this *body* in the Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is called "Greh",(house) "Sharir"(Body), "Pind"(Village), "Desh" (Country), "Ghar" ("Ghar Suk Vasia Bahar Suk Paya") (home), "Kila", "Dhan"
are some names given refering to this body.  *“Nau Nid Amrit Prab Ka Naam Dehi Me Is Ka Bisram” 
*Through the 3 jugs naam has been hidden. Very few knew about this. this treasure of Naam is revealed in this Era of KAL “*Gupta Naam Varte Vich Kaljug Ghat Ghat Har Parpoor Rahia**”* 

  Guru ji says to do *Simran *and Naam will be revealed: SASGRAS ans SAS SAS simran. you take your Mann into the Body. Away from the oustside world and stop your toughts and your focus away from your senory organs by attuining your mind to the Gurmantr that Guru gives us “Waheguru” by listening to it very carefully. *“Dun Meh Dian Dhian Meh Jania Gurmukh Akath Kahani.”*
  Sas Gras Jap ; gras is to *take in* Sas is to *complete ut* Jap to speak with your mouth *“Sabe Japo Jap Jo Muko Valetia”*  Simran is done in the Mind

"khu kbIr AKr duie BwiK" Says Kabir  Chant two Syllables
    When you take air in you say “Wahe” and when out you say “Guru” do this with repetition and take your focus inward slowly lower your voice and then go “Anargath“ where your toughts take place. Here do Simran same way and stop your toughts. *"Vichar Marre Tarre Taare Ult Joon Na Ayi”* stop your toughts and swim trough this “*bav sagar” turbulent ocean of toughts* and you will be free from reincarnation. 
  Eventually you will fall asleep or enter a state of zero thought flux. *Neutral space* where you are above the *Tregun Maya*, a place called *Sunn* here you will hear His *Naam*. here you just sit quietly. When your Mann has stoped talking the God will talk and you will hear Naam.  it take practice and by Waheguru Grace. 

  The Guru ji Says “ this Bani sounds are like of the Flute, Shanne, Rabab, Vaja, and Dabla describes on page 774 (English translation is wrong ofcourse) .  When you hear this Naam. your Bagati will begin.* "Gurmukh Bagat Jit Siege Dun Upje, Bin Bagati Mel Na Jai" * the sounds become more and louder as you progress in your journey.


  In Sunn or Siege, 4 Choatta Pad, BegumPura, Nij Ghar, Seige Ghar, Thir Gar, Akash, 10 Gate is this Naam. this Sunn is our true home. “Sunn Samad Sacha Ghar Bara” 

  I hope this helps.  The simran.info site features the Akath Katha. It is very helpful to understanding the Gurbani. 

    Ok to anwser your previous question. The Gurbani above is translated by someone who did not do simran and practically follow the methods of the Guru. Therefore they are unable to fully grasp the meaning therefore not properly explained. Ignore what that guy is saying just do the simran then read it again and you will understand what is written. The Gurbani is the Bani from the 4 Stage. “Choatta Pad” So if your mind doesn’t go to this stage you cannot understand it. When you start to go there more and more and learn how to keep your Surti there the Gubani becomes very clear.



"


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## harpreetsingh (Sep 9, 2007)

Dear Adeep ji,
Many many thanks for explaining the things in the perspective. I have never come across this kind of lucid information on a topic like Naam. I have been on this for quite some time. May be for years and had never been able to spell out my doubts clearly to my friends and colleagues thinking that I shall be treated as an outcaste who even does not know NAAm. 
I had always and even till date thoght that 'Waheguru' or satnaam' or Mool Mantra are variants. 
These are not as guided by yourself . Very Many thanks jeo for this. 

Regards.
harpreet


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## drkhalsa (Sep 9, 2007)

Dear Adeep646,


Thanks for ur post and presense on forum !

I have qustion and query to clear.

I read your post  above , it seems very good as your are guiding the inquistive soul( harpreetsingh ).
All you have written , is this all your personal experience or it also includes something yet to be experienced 

It will be very thankful of you for making it clear!


Thanks

Jatinder Singh


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## adeep646 (Sep 9, 2007)

Waheguru Ji,

repected Dr. Sahib

i do not like to use the I because I creates ego and Pride. 
By Waheguru's full Kirpa to the Max; he has "Japp'd" and my Mann has listened and Waheguru has taken me on ride for which i am not worthy.

what i said above in the post is from full practical experience.


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## drkhalsa (Sep 10, 2007)

Thanks Adeep  Ji !!


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 10, 2007)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Harpreet Jee!

No one can receive Naam by visiting Internet, discussing on a forum or reading a book. Better long for the company of a true saint whom God is using as HIS Tool to transfer Truth.

All techniques available in written form or on Internet are hocus-pocus.


Balbir Singh


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## TGill (Sep 10, 2007)

isrIrwgu mhl 1 ]
qnu jil bil mwtI BieAw mnu mwieAw moih mnUru ]
Aaugx iPir lwgU Bey kUir vjwvY qUru ]
ibnu sbdY BrmweIAY duibDw foby pUru ]1]
mn ry sbid qrhu icqu lwie ]
ijin gurmuiK nwmu n bUiJAw mir jnmY AwvY jwie ]1] rhwau ]
qnu sUcw so AwKIAY ijsu mih swcw nwau ]
BY sic rwqI dyhurI ijhvw scu suAwau ]
scI ndir inhwlIAY bhuiV n pwvY qwau ]2]
swcy qy pvnw BieAw pvnY qy jlu hoie ]
jl qy iqRBvxu swijAw Git Git joiq smoie ]
inrmlu mYlw nw QIAY sbid rqy piq hoie ]3]
iehu mnu swic sMqoiKAw ndir kry iqsu mwih ]
pMc BUq sic BY rqy joiq scI mn mwih ]
nwnk Aaugx vIsry guir rwKy piq qwih ]4]15]


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## drkhalsa (Sep 10, 2007)

> No one can receive Naam by visiting Internet, discussing on a forum or reading a book. Better long for the company of a true saint whom God is using as HIS Tool to transfer Truth.
> 
> All techniques available in written form or on Internet are hocus-pocus.




Dear Balbir Singh ji ,

How the saint will transfer NAAM by what means??

Speaking with you ?
Being just present with you ?
through his actions ?

Please Explain ,I really dont know answer but would like to know

Anyway I agree that Forums and books could be just hocus pocus


Jatinder Singh


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## harpreetsingh (Sep 10, 2007)

Respected Balbir ji,

We are all sailing in the same Boat and see the color of water the way it appears. To some it may be blue to some it may be green or something else depending upon the long shadows of surroundings.

We all tread our path and lobor alone. There is no shortcuts on this route .None can help anyone on this path. We dig our own wells. Everything is pre-destined and if it has to be it will. if not, we are all helpless.

I do thank you, Sir, for your magnanimity that you have enlightened me with your way of looking and have advised me to seek the Sangat of Holy .I shall do that necessarily as I am not a regular visitor of Gurudwara. I really need a change and will have to unshell myself

Naam ,as has been used , is representative of two things. 

_One:_ the sole cause of all causes i.e. the eternal word which brought this creation into being. This can be Ong or some similar [derivative of Om or Aum or something like this]. I would not be very sure of as to whether there is an explicit reference in SGGS ji. This is also the Naam that has been referred to in SGGS ji. This Naam is also energised by the Almighty and one can feel the holy vibrations like 'naad'/panch dhun etc [ as the posts of Adeep ji mentions] etc. although I know of none. However, the holy vibes are there all the times.It is also the way I am told thru. some posts on this forum.

_Secondly: _The Naam is also Name of the causes Of All causes, i.e Waheguru or called by whatever name that suits. It may be thru. Satnam or Ek Ongkar or other Mantra. 

These are the two essential differences that I have not thought of earlier.

I quote below from _*'Sukhmani Sahib ji*_', I must have stared at the following lines more than thousand times, but the meaning was just revealed to me only the other day. 


hir ko nwmu koit pwp prhrY ] (264-3, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
The Name of the Lord washes off millions of sins.
gurmuiK nwmu jphu mn myry ] (264-4, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
As Gurmukh, chant the Naam, O my mind.

nwnk pwvhu sUK Gnyry ]1] (264-4, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
O Nanak, you shall obtain countless joys. ||1||
sgl isRsit ko rwjw duKIAw ] (264-4, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
The rulers of the all the world are unhappy;

hir kw nwmu jpq hoie suKIAw ] (264-5, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
one who chants the Name of the Lord becomes happy.
lwK krorI bMDu n prY ] (264-5, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
Acquiring hundreds of thousands and millions, your desires shall not be contained.

hir kw nwmu jpq insqrY ] (264-5, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
Chanting the Name of the Lord, you shall find release.
Aink mwieAw rMg iqK n buJwvY ] (264-6, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
By the countless pleasures of Maya, your thirst shall not be quenched.

hir kw nwmu jpq AwGwvY ] (264-6, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
Chanting the Name of the Lord, you shall be satisfied.
ijh mwrig iehu jwq iekylw ] (264-6, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
Upon that path where you must go all alone,

qh hir nwmu sMig hoq suhylw ] (264-7, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
there, only the Lord's Name shall go with you to sustain you.
AYsw nwmu mn sdw iDAweIAY ] (264-7, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
On such a Name, O my mind, meditate forever.

nwnk gurmuiK prm giq pweIAY ]2] (264-7, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
O Nanak, as Gurmukh, you shall obtain the state of supreme dignity. ||2||
CUtq nhI koit lK bwhI ] (264-8, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
You shall not be saved by hundreds of thousands and millions of helping hands.

nwmu jpq qh pwir prwhI ] (264-8, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
Chanting the Naam, you shall be lifted up and carried across.
Aink ibGn jh Awie sMGwrY ] (264-8, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
Where countless misfortunes threaten to destroy you,

hir kw nwmu qqkwl auDwrY ] (264-9, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
the Name of the Lord shall rescue you in an instant.
Aink join jnmY mir jwm ] (264-9, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
Through countless incarnations, people are born and die.

nwmu jpq pwvY ibsRwm ] (264-9, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
Chanting the Name of the Lord, you shall come to rest in peace.
hau mYlw mlu kbhu n DovY ] (264-10, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
The ego is polluted by a filth which can never be washed off.

hir kw nwmu koit pwp KovY ] (264-10, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
The Name of the Lord erases millions of sins.
AYsw nwmu jphu mn rMig ] (264-10, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
Chant such a Name with love, O my mind.

nwnk pweIAY swD kY sMig ]3] (264-10, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
O Nanak, it is obtained in the Company of the Holy. ||3||
ijh mwrg ky gny jwih n kosw ] (264-11, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
On that path where the miles cannot be counted,

hir kw nwmu aUhw sMig qosw ] (264-11, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
there, the Name of the Lord shall be your sustenance.
ijh pYfY mhw AMD gubwrw ] (264-11, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
On that journey of total, pitch-black darkness,

hir kw nwmu sMig aujIAwrw ] (264-12, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
the Name of the Lord shall be the Light with you.
jhw pMiQ qyrw ko n is\wnU ] (264-12, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
On that journey where no one knows you,

hir kw nwmu qh nwil pCwnU ] (264-12, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
with the Name of the Lord, you shall be recognized.
jh mhw BieAwn qpiq bhu Gwm ] (264-13, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
Where there is awesome and terrible heat and blazing sunshine,

qh hir ky nwm kI qum aUpir Cwm ] (264-13, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
there, the Name of the Lord will give you shade.
jhw iqRKw mn quJu AwkrKY ] (264-14, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
Where thirst, O my mind, torments you to cry out,

qh nwnk hir hir AMimRqu brKY ]4] (264-14, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
there, O Nanak, the Ambrosial Name, Har, Har, shall rain down upon you. ||4||
Bgq jnw kI brqin nwmu ] (264-14, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
Unto the devotee, the Naam is an article of daily use.

sMq jnw kY min ibsRwmu ] (264-15, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
The minds of the humble Saints are at peace.
hir kw nwmu dws kI Et ] (264-15, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
The Name of the Lord is the Support of His servants.

hir kY nwim auDry jn koit ] (264-15, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
By the Name of the Lord, millions have been saved.
hir jsu krq sMq idnu rwiq ] (264-15, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
The Saints chant the Praises of the Lord, day and night.

hir hir AauKDu swD kmwiq ] (264-16, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
Har, Har - the Lord's Name - the Holy use it as their healing medicine.
hir jn kY hir nwmu inDwnu ] (264-16, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
The Lord's Name is the treasure of the Lord's servant.

pwrbRhim jn kIno dwn ] (264-17, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
The Supreme Lord God has blessed His humble servant with this gift.

He has blessed us all with Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj ji. It is only for us now to move along. I do appreciate and respect your worry for me and for which I am very grateful. Right now we all have the various mantras for jap and if it is Naam it is ok. If it is not it is ok. As he has destined should prevail.

Thanks once again for your concern.


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 10, 2007)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Jatinder Jee!

Quote "Please Explain ,I really dont know answer but would like to know."
Simran is not reading an answer.

Quote "Anyway I agree that Forums and books could be just hocus pocus."
Forums and scriptures have a purpose. Those make one aware of his real thirst and intensify it.
After receiving true Simran it is like remembering own experiences while reading those.

**************

TGill Jee. Thanks for the wonderful Sabad from Guru Naanak Dev Jee. The Sabad is on Ang 19-13 in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee.
The praise of the true Sabad is great.

**************

Quote from Harpreet Jee "We are all sailing in the same Boat and see the color of water the way it appears. To some it may be blue to some it may be green or something else depending upon the long shadows of surroundings."
My dear, the color of truth is the same when realized sailing on the boat of true Naam. It is not for some blue and for some others green, specially while sailing on the same water.

Quote "We all tread our path and lobor alone. There is no shortcuts on this route .None can help anyone on this path. We dig our own wells. Everything is pre-destined and if it has to be it will. if not, we are all helpless."
Recognizing God's Will is the awareness. Rejecting God's Help is ignorance.
Please ponder. The Gurus suggested us all to seek the holy company of a true saint to receive true Naam. Why?
It is an egoistic statement  "We dig our own wells."
Saints dig well for all.

Quote "I do thank you, Sir, for your magnanimity that you have enlightened me with your way of looking and have advised me to seek the Sangat of Holy .I shall do that necessarily as I am not a regular visitor of Gurudwara. I really need a change and will have to unshell myself."
That will be great when Saints will be available again at Gurudwaras.

Thanks for the true Vaaks from Gurdev. All those are describing the results of true Naam Jap. Be sure. All these happen with one who receives true Simran.


Balbir Singh


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## drkhalsa (Sep 10, 2007)

> Quote "Please Explain ,I really dont know answer but would like to know."
> Simran is not reading an answer.
> 
> Quote "Anyway I agree that Forums and books could be just hocus pocus."
> ...



Thanks for reply!

Next Query!

I kund of can relate to this statement of yours from my experience 



> After receiving true Simran it is like remembering own experiences while reading those



does it matter ?


Thanks

Jatinder Singh


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## adeep646 (Sep 10, 2007)

Balbir singh Ji.
,
please tell me what is a true Saint and which Saint u believe in. (from your views u are associated with a group) please do not use your own Matt, and try to use the Guru's Matt. please quote from Gurbani.


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## harpreetsingh (Sep 11, 2007)

Dear Sirs,

The views expressed can be personal and should be so authored as to not to demean something. One may have preferences and prejudices against something that is authored by other colleagues undertaking the journey as a contemporarian. We are all subscribers to the inernet. We do express our views and that we think is correct.Everyone takes pain and time out to express oneself. No one dare write something that one feels is bogus. A sikh would not do it. It is my firm belief.

To condemn that every thing is 'hocus pocus' [the exact meaning of which I do not know but it sounds like 'bogus'] is a sweeping statement in a very generalised manner. It can hurt others as well. This speaks volumes if it is seconded by the one who is moderator of the site. If the generalisation is correct it would be better that it should be done with lot of care. If everything on 'net' is useless or is a fraud one may not visit the site and abandon it.

But taking it logically one should ask oneself as to why someone should , at this forum, speak of something that is Bogus.There is no good rerason that can be attributed to this. Yes, there may be difference of opinions and that the expression may not be to the level that it pleases others. To that extent the criticism is fair. But to discard something that someone has written ,fully supporting with Gurbani, would mean to disregard Gurbani. Gurbani is all that we are sharing here according to our perception and understanding that HE has bestowed on us. By declaring something Bogus it always gives an impression that one has something better to present. If that what Adeep ji has authored is all Hocus pocus it is very kindly requested that one should come out and put on the records the alternative to that has been stated by Respected Adeep ji. If that is not feasible the criticism ,in generic sense, is really painful. There is no mention by anyone as to what is the alternative to that one has been suggested by Adeep ji in the posts.

The chances that we may meet one to one are remote, let us make our stay comfortable and share that we have without excessive criticism.We are all brothers. Even if there is a mistake one should be given the benefit of doubt to others and ask a pointed question as has been done in this post at a particular place.It is perfectly acceptable.

Regards.
Sorry for errors.


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## drkhalsa (Sep 11, 2007)

Dear HArpreet Singh ji

That was wonderful Post !

My apologies if my words have hurt yiou  and you think there were too harsh or inappropiate.I always stand to be corrected by anybody just like you , so thanks for pointing out my mistakes .

Even in my wildest thought I never meant that somebody Adeep , Balbir Singh is writing something BOGUS!
And I havent written any thing like that for sure .( everuthing on forum is bogus as pointed out  by your self)

You seems to be reading between the lines .I have written Forums and Books COULD be HOCUS-POCUS ( which in my understanding means deception )  and it is a fact! Internet specifically is the major source of deception in mordern world whethr it is social life or religious .I dont want to go in details But I think yo got my point that one has to  be cautious while on interner as you rightly pointe that there is slim chance we will know each other face to face .

I am myself seeker on the spirtual journey so all the question I asked here were very sincere question that really concerned me and not only  as a way of moderation .

I dont agree with you when you say that I am in some way trying to put somebody down by just critisizing excessively as this thing is not in my councious mind ( while it could some uncouncious that might reflect in my posts that We also call defense mechanism in Psychiatry ) So I am really sorry for what I appear to be but sincerely I am not into it( critisiging) so surely your post is reminder to me for improving myself and I am thankful to you for that .


About your question WHY WOULD SOMEBODY BE BOGUS ON FORUM ? I think I leave it you to experience this while on your internet jorney I had my share of deceptions and so dont need any answer for that .

In the end I have realised I have done some Mistake as evdent from your post So forgive me for that and I will try to improve in future



Jatinder Singh


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 11, 2007)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Jatinder Jee!

You have raised the curiosity "does it matter ?" reading the statement "After receiving true Simran it is like remembering own experiences while reading those."
The True Gurus go on singing again to join the company of Saints who describe the praise of God's Names. It may be verbal or written somewhere.
For some persons it does not matter. Those who have never tasted a mango cannot remember its taste by hearing the different names of mangoes. Hearing the word 'Rasgulla' one remembers its taste he experienced in the past.

**************

Quote from Adeep646 Jee "please tell me what is a true Saint and which Saint u believe in."
The Gurus also write the attributes of a true Saint in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee.
I do not believe in a Saint. Those who believe in a Saint have not come to meet one.

Quote "from your views u are associated with a group."
God is not a Group.

Quote "please do not use your own Matt, and try to use the Guru's Matt."
'I' is Matt-less anyway. Better depend on Guru's Matt. Do not visit and imitate people who are using their Matt speaking 'Wah' while inhaling and 'Guru' while exhaling. The true Gurus never suggested it.
Quote "please quote from Gurbani."
Please become an example. Provide one reference where the Gurus have suggested to speak the sound 'Wa' or 'Gu' while inhaling and 'He' or 'Ru' while exhaling
.

**************

Dear Harpreetsingh Jee, hocus-pocus means verbal misrepresentation intended to take advantage of you in some way. This is what preachers are doing these days.
Quote "There is no mention by anyone as to what is the alternative to that one has been suggested by Adeep ji in the posts."
Eating is different from reading recipes. 
The True Gurus never suggest reading a recipe of Simran but to learn cooking and eating it. Sharing it with others is the true Langar.

Persons blessed with true Naam Simran know what Kabeer Jee is mentioning while singing "kahu kabeer akhar du-i bhaakhi." SGGS 329-18.
The Gurus have often used the word 'aakhi'. 'Aakhi' means saying. 'Bhaakhi' is not saying as many scholars have translated it.


Balbir Singh


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## drkhalsa (Sep 11, 2007)

Balbir Singh Ji 

Thanks for the post !

I think you kind of misunderstood me , anyway your response was still help ful 

Actually what I said was that Even when I read guru Granth Sahib I sometimes can relate to what is written as my own experience and feel the joy of reading it but not always 
as it is not always in y case thats why I said does it matter if you can feel this sometime and not always ?


Thanks 

JAtinder Singh


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## adeep646 (Sep 11, 2007)

Thank you sir for your reply. it is quite clear whose matt you are using in your post and thank you for supporting your execptional theories with the gurbani.


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## TGill (Sep 12, 2007)

Dear adeep ji

You can't survive without your matt or otherwise you must be dead. So what matt are you talking about, you just can't stop using your matt at all, how is it possible ? Give me one example where you think you have not used your own mat and have used Guru's (seriously please think and let me know, I'm anxious to know)
Gurumatt is sought by the holiest of the saints and they don't achieve it even then,only  the one who is blessed achieves gurumat... And then there is nothing distinguising his mat from Guru's
Only Guru's matt flow thru him. I totally agree with balbir ji that your methodology of saying 'Wahe' while inhaling and 'Guru' while exaling is totally bogus... Please explain it to us that how do you claim it is Guru's mat ?

Awaitin your reply


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## TGill (Sep 12, 2007)

Quote Adeep ji: When you take air in you say “Wahe” and when out you say “Guru” do this with repetition and take your focus inward slowly lower your voice and then go “Anargath“ where your toughts take place. Here do Simran same way and stop your toughts. *"Vichar Marre Tarre Taare Ult Joon Na Ayi”* stop your toughts and swim trough this “*bav sagar” turbulent ocean of toughts* and you will be free from reincarnation. 
*Eventually you will fall asleep or enter a state of zero thought flux*. *Neutral space* where you are above the *Tregun Maya*, a place called *Sunn* here you will hear His *Naam*. here you just sit quietly. When your Mann has stoped talking the God will talk and you will hear Naam. it take practice and by Waheguru Grace.


Holy Cow !!

Then all the animals who hibernate for years together by falling asleep must have attained god!!
There must be some difference between falling asleep and your so called zero thought flux !!


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## adeep646 (Sep 12, 2007)

Waheguru ji,

you can only understand by practical experience. there is no other way. it is difficult for those that have not been blessed to do Simran of understand the Gurbani. so they use their own Matt to get the meanings and theories , Many try talk the big talk but do not try to walk the Marg. These methods are mentioned as  "Sas GRas" and "SAs Sas".

Also Guru Ji's Matt  says "Akkal eh Na Akia Akkal Gavaiye Baad", so this is the end of my post in this topic. if any one has questions they may messenger me.


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## TGill (Sep 12, 2007)

Dear Adeep ji
Quote: you can only understand by practical experience. there is no other way. Many talk the big talk but do not try to walk the Marg.

Totally agree, and it applies to you as well.


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 12, 2007)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Adeep646 Jee!

Quote "These methods are mentioned as 'Sas GRas' and 'SAs Sas'."
Please provide one reference from the Gurus where they have said that 'Sas GRas' and 'SAs Sas' are the methods. I will be grateful.

Please be a good companion and stay in Satsang.


Balbir Singh


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 13, 2007)

TGill said:


> Quote Adeep ji: When you take air in you say “Wahe” and when out you say “Guru” do this with repetition and take your focus inward slowly lower your voice and then go “Anargath“ where your toughts take place. Here do Simran same way and stop your toughts. *"Vichar Marre Tarre Taare Ult Joon Na Ayi”* stop your toughts and swim trough this “*bav sagar” turbulent ocean of toughts* and you will be free from reincarnation.
> *Eventually you will fall asleep or enter a state of zero thought flux*. *Neutral space* where you are above the *Tregun Maya*, a place called *Sunn* here you will hear His *Naam*. here you just sit quietly. When your Mann has stoped talking the God will talk and you will hear Naam. it take practice and by Waheguru Grace.Holy Cow !! Then all the animals who hibernate for years together by falling asleep must have attained god!!
> There must be some difference between falling asleep and your so called zero thought flux !!


 
Gill Sahib

I totally agree with you. It is nothing but hybernating like animals.  Falling asleep and going in sun and awakening from sleep and going in saroor (bliss) are two different things. Going in samadhi is bliss and just 'sun' is nothing bus sleep. Sutia milai na bhao.  We make ourselves a cartoon in front of others those who watch us. Gursikhi is jo jeo so ughvai muh ka keha waho - it is truth living which will yield marks, spoken words are nothing but blowing wind. 

Regards Sahni Mohinder


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## adeep646 (Sep 16, 2007)

Waheguru Ji,

when the Cow sleeps, it goes into Sunn. when you sleep you go into Sunn. 

if you do not know where you when you go to sleep and how you go there and how you get back, then you are on the same list as the Cow. and you will have the same faith as our 4-legged friend. 

When you go to Sleep you are free from all toughts, if you have toughts and "Vichars" and "Furne", you will not go sleep, Sunn. same way to enter Samadi you have to stop your toughts. it is the Same.OMG

as you can see even in other religions like Buddism and even yoga, there is alot of preconditioning involved,; sitting upright, hanging upside down and other physical strain.  Guru Nanak  Ji said all this precondition is *unnecessary*. Our Bagati, "Bakti" begins when our Mann has left the world of Trengun, when it is in Sunn.:idea:

the human "Manas" has been given the most Gian of all the other species "joons".  because the Cow is not so blessed it does not have the understanding capabilities and mental functionality as we do so they are limited. 
is by doing Simran that we can be awaken our Sleeping Manns.
Quote "Sutia milai na bhao" is refering to our Manns being asleep here in world of tregun maya. (3 qualities) and if its alseep here its also asleep when it goes home "Thir Ghar" ,Nij Ghar, Sunn, Siege Gufa, Begum Pura, "10 Gate"

Guru Ji says "Tini Guni Sansar Baram Sutia, Sutia Rehn Vihani"

Guru Ji Says "Simr Simr Simr Gur Apna Soiya Mann Jagai"
by doing simran we can awaken. Sas Gras Simran and Jap

Jap is to speak with your mouth. "Sabe Japo Jap Jo Mukho Valatia"
Grahi means to take in and Sas is complete the action by breathing out.


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 16, 2007)

adeep646 said:


> Waheguru Ji,
> 
> when the Cow sleeps, it goes into Sunn. when you sleep you go into Sunn.
> 
> ...


 
Adeepji your talk looks very good on internet and books, but I tell you 99.9% of the people goes in sleep and hybernate like cow. Try yourself today and you will watch.  gurbani has not said just like that aakhan aukha sacha nao.
Regards Sahni Mohinder


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## TGill (Sep 17, 2007)

I agree adeep ji that jap means to speak from mouth but which mouth adeep ji.
Shouldn't  that mouth which does this  jap be away from this tregun maya as well, no? can it be this physical mouth ?... if the mouth is beyond  maya  only then can it jap the ajapa jap..( I don't know how is it otherwise possible) !!


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## Sikh80 (Oct 14, 2007)

I had the chance to Listen to Sant Maskken ji on 10th Oct,2007.He had clearly stated that one should utter from his mouth' and listen to that which one is japping.

It is how the name japped is digested. Only for info.


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## Deppuji (Nov 23, 2007)

Gurbani talks about "Naam" in two ways. One is just like you name a person and you call him by that name. The same way, people named GOD with diffferent names (like God, Allah, Ram, Gobind, Waheguru etc.). The second one is the "Divine Word", which is also called naam (Shabad, Sacha Shabad, Anhad Shabad etc.) in the Gurbani and Gurbani frequently talks about it. This 'Namm' was created by the God. Gurbani says" Tis roop na rekh anahd vaje Shabad nirajan kia". First God created the 'Naam', then he created everything else by 'Naam'. Gurbani says "Aapine aap sajaeo, aapine rachio Nao (Naam)", means God created himself and he created 'Naam'. The 'Naam' is present everywhere and also inside our body, and it is hidden in the Dasam Duar (Tenth gate). The purpose of our life is to find the 'Naam' from our inside. The 'Naam' is food of our mind. Gurbani says " Man ka tosa (food) hari naam hai". When our mind is in 'Maya', we can not listen the 'Naam' (Shabad). Gurbani says when your mind is in 'Maya' you cannot listen the Shabad, Naam then you are deaf. Gurbani says " Mayadhari aat anna bolla (deaf), Shabad na sunaee bahu roll ghachola". If you cannot listen the 'Naam', Start doing Gurmantra (Wahegur).


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## drkhalsa (Nov 24, 2007)

Deppuji 

Welcome to this forum !

we delighted to have learned member on this forum !

I really appreciate your post and can understand what you are saying a little bit 
Sincerely I will be able to understand more if you can elaborate further on the second meaning that Saccha Shabad , Anhad Shabad 

Also I would like to know that what you write is it  based on your personal experience ?

Thanks 

Jatinder Singh


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## Deppuji (Nov 25, 2007)

Jatinder Singh Ji, I am very happy that someone read my writing carefully. I would try to explain it more. Gurubani talks about Sacha Shabad, Anhad Shabad (divine word, unstruck melody). God first created the Shabad, then created everything from the Shabad. It also resides in our body in the Dasam Duar (Tenth gate, Nijh ghar) and it is going on all the time. When our mind enters the Dasam Duar, it listens the Sacha Shabad, Anhad Shabad. Gurbani says "
nau dr Twky Dwvqu rhwey ]
_Those who close off the nine gates, and restrain the wandering mind,_
dsvY inj Gir vwsw pwey ]
_come to dwell in the Home of the Tenth Gate._
EQY Anhd sbd vjih idnu rwqI gurmqI sbdu suxwvixAw ]6]
_There, the Unstruck Melody of the Shabad vibrates day and night. Through the Guru's Teachings, the Shabad is heard. ||6||_

we can meet the God through this Shabad. Gurbani Says:
jIAw AMdir jIau sbdu hY ijqu sh mylwvw hoie ]
_The life within all living beings is the Word of the Shabad. Through it, we meet our Husband Lord.
_Gurubani Says, Do whatever Guru says. Guru says that find the Word and cometo your true home (Thir ghar, Sahej ghar). Gurbani Says:
guir kihAw sw kwr kmwvhu ]
_So do that work, which the Guru tells you to do._
sbdu cIin@ shj Gir Awvhu ]
_Contemplating the Word of the Shabad, you shall come to the home of celestial bliss.
_To find the word, we need to chant Gurmantra (Waheguru), So our mind can leave the thoughts and enter the Nijh ghar. The key of the Gurmantra is to listen it when you are chanting. Keep your mind present. I have experienced some of it and still am working on it.


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## spnadmin (Nov 25, 2007)

Deppuji ji

For me too it is a real upbeat experience to meet you. You have a talent for focusing on the important ideas. DrKhalsa is right when he says that you are a learned person. Your Gurbani choice is the best illustration of what you are saying. Not only am I now reading and trying to absorb your ideas, I am also thinking about them in my own dhyanna. 

Also, it is refreshing to meet someone who knows and understands Gurbani and who at the same time is not acting like a cyber-sadhu. To me that is a Gursikh!

Thanks from me, and I am sure many others reading this thread. Your comments are also good follow-up to what Soul_Jyot was putting before us earlier in the thread. 

Fateh!


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## Archived_Member_19 (Nov 25, 2007)

i have a question, i think a silly one:

how did we reach the conclusion that the word "Waheguru" is the Guru mantar?


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## kds1980 (Nov 25, 2007)

^^

Vaaran Bhai Gurdas :Vaar11Pauri3:SearchGurbani.com
ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਸਚੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ । 
satiguru purakh daiaalu hoi vaahiguroo sachu mantr sunaaiaa|
Becoming kind, the Guru recites true mantra Vaheguru for him.


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## Archived_Member_19 (Nov 26, 2007)

its still not clear, maybe my translation is bad

does it say the above translation or does it say:

"The True Guru became benovelent to disciple,
Praiseworth Guru revealed the true mantra to the disciple"

also here is another place where Bhai Gurdas explains meaning of Waheguru:

this is from same link as you gave me

Vaar 1 Pauri 49 Waheguru mantar
ਸਤਿਜੁਗਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਾਸਦੇਵ ਵਵਾ ਵਿਸਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ । 
satijugi satigur vaasadayv vavaa visanaa naamu japaavai|
In Satyug, Visnu in the form of Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu.
Line  1   

ਦੁਆਪਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹਾਹਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ । 
duaapari satigur haree krisan haahaa hari hari naamu japaavai|
The true Guru of dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari.
Line  2   

ਤੇਤੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਰਾਮ ਜੀ ਰਾਰਾ ਰਾਮ ਜਪੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ । 
taytay satigur raam jee raaraa raam japay sukhu paavai|
In the the treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that rembering Ram will produce joy and happiness.
Line  3   

ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਗਗਾ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਲਾਵੈ । 
kalijugi naanak gur gobind gagaa gobind naamu alaavai|
In kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited.
Line  4   

ਚਾਰੇ ਜਾਗੇ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗੀ ਪੰਚਾਇਣ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਵੈ । 
chaaray jaagay chahu jugee panchaain vichi jaai samaavai|
The recitations o f all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man.
Line  5   

ਚਾਰੋ ਅਛਰ ਇਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ ਜਪੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਜਪਾਵੈ । 
chaaro achhar iku kari vaahaguroo japu mantr japaavai|
When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered,
Line  6   

ਜਹਾ ਤੇ ਉਪਜਿਆ ਫਿਰਿ ਤਹਾ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥੪੯॥੧॥ 
jahaa tay upajiaa dhiri tahaa samaavai ॥49॥1॥
The jiv merges again in its origin.


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## kds1980 (Nov 26, 2007)

how its not clear.Just read the entire pauri

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਨਮੁ ਸਕਾਰਥਾ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਮਿਲਿ ਗੁਰਸਰਣੀ ਆਇਆ । 
guramukhi janamu sakaaradaa gurasikh mili gurasaranee aaiaa|
The life of that gurmukh is fortunate whom meeting some Sikh of the Guru has come to the shelter of the Guru.
Line  1   

ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖ ਆਦੇਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਸਫਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਗੁਰਦਰਸਨੁ ਪਾਇਆ । 
aadi purakh aadaysu kari sadhal moorati guradarasanu paaiaa|
He bows before primeval Purusa (God) and becomes blessed after having the sight of such a Guru.
Line  2   

ਪਰਦਖਣਾ ਡੰਡਉਤ ਕਰਿ ਮਸਤਕੁ ਚਰਣ ਕਵਲ ਗੁਰ ਲਾਇਆ । 
paradakhanaa dandaut kari masataku charan kaval gur|aaiaa|
After circumambulation he bows on the lotus feet of Guru.
Line  3   

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਸਚੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ । 
satiguru purakh daiaalu hoi vaahiguroo sachu mantr sunaaiaa|
Becoming kind, the Guru recites true mantra Vaheguru for him.
Line  4   

ਸਚ ਰਾਸਿ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਦੇ ਪੈਰੀਂ ਪੈ ਜਗੁ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਾਇਆ । 
sach raasi raharaasi day paireen pai jagu pairee paaiaa|
The Sikh with his capital of devotion falls at the feet of Guru and the whole world bows at his feet.
Line  5   

ਕਾਮ ਕਰੋਧੁ ਵਿਰੋਧੁ ਹਰਿ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ਤਜਾਇਆ । 
kaam karodhu virodhu hari|obhu mohu ahankaaru tajaaiaa|
God (the Guru) eradicates his lust, anger and resistance and gets his greed, infatuation and ego erased.
Line  6   

ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਦਇਆ ਧਰਮੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਦਾਨੁ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ । 
satu santokhu daiaa dharamu naamu daanu isanaanu drirhaaiaa|
Instead, the Guru makes him practise truth, contentment, dharma, name, charity and ablution.
Line  7   

ਗੁਰ ਸਿਖ ਲੈ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੁ ਸਦਾਇਆ ॥੩॥ 
gur sikh|ai gurasikhu sadaaiaa ॥3॥
Adopting the teachings of the Guru, the individual is called a Sikh of the Guru.

It describe's how guru ji tell true guru mantar wahe guru to sikhs.The exact word is sunaaiaa


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## Archived_Member_19 (Nov 26, 2007)

interesting

thanks


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