# Question About GGS



## sikhconvert (Aug 27, 2016)

Why there is so much protocol towards the Guru Granth Sahib? It has clothing, bedding, so many rules that make it impossible for the average everyday Sikh to house I presume? Why are there so many rules towards this aspect, when Sikhism rejects blind ritualism? What are the reasons for sprinkling wet rose petals ahead of a Sikh carrying it, or having specific requirements of it's "bed"?

Forgive me if any of this is wrong, I'm very novice at Sikhi.


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## Original (Aug 27, 2016)

sikhconvert said:


> Why there is so much protocol towards the Guru Granth Sahib?


..because it is the living God of the Sikh.


sikhconvert said:


> It has clothing, bedding, so many rules that make it impossible for the average everyday Sikh to house I presume?


..I wouldn't say impossible, but definitely challenging, and makes sense too, since it is seldom discovered; for if salvation lay ready to hand and could be discovered without too much labour, how come it should be neglected by almost everyone ?


sikhconvert said:


> Why are there so many rules towards this aspect, when Sikhism rejects blind ritualism?


...because all noble things are as difficult as they are rare. Sikhism conforms to 'good practice' and not ritualism per se.


sikhconvert said:


> What are the reasons for sprinkling wet rose petals ahead of a Sikh carrying it, or having specific requirements of it's "bed"?


...can I get you to make a connection between flowers and occasions/events [happy and aspiring] etc in social and religious settings ?

Goodnight


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## Harkiran Kaur (Aug 27, 2016)

sikhconvert said:


> Why there is so much protocol towards the Guru Granth Sahib? It has clothing, bedding, so many rules that make it impossible for the average everyday Sikh to house I presume? Why are there so many rules towards this aspect, when Sikhism rejects blind ritualism? What are the reasons for sprinkling wet rose petals ahead of a Sikh carrying it, or having specific requirements of it's "bed"?
> 
> Forgive me if any of this is wrong, I'm very novice at Sikhi.



In Sikhi, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is considered (and treated as) our Guru. There were ten Gurus in human form, and then Guru Gobind Singh Ji passed Guruship onto SGGSJ. 
SGGSJ is not worshipped in an idol worship kind of way... rather devout respect, as the current 'body' of all the knowledge of not just the human Gurus, but other spiritual figures as well.

Bani Guru Guru Hai Bani. Means the word IS the Guru, Guru IS the word. Meaning the wisdom contained within Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (not the pages, or the ink etc). So we are giving deepest respect to this divine knowledge.


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## Harry Haller (Aug 27, 2016)

sikhconvert said:


> Why there is so much protocol towards the Guru Granth Sahib?



Much of the protocol is human introduced, the SGGS commands respect and love, not protocol, protocol is easier. 



sikhconvert said:


> t has clothing, bedding, so many rules that make it impossible for the average everyday Sikh to house I presume?



My parents have SGGS in residence, they do not see it as rules or impossible, it is love for them, the love of serving and serving in a way that is recognised, this ceases to become protocol, my parents would not know the meaning of the word. 



sikhconvert said:


> y are there so many rules towards this aspect, when Sikhism rejects blind ritualism?



blind ritualism is alive and well, we focus more on protocol than on love in my view, but then it is easier to be focused on protocol than actually embracing the ideals and thoughts contained, once you are in love,I guess you wish to show that love in as many ways as possible. 



sikhconvert said:


> What are the reasons for sprinkling wet rose petals ahead of a Sikh carrying it, or having specific requirements of it's "bed"?



the wet rose petals express love, there is a difference to my mum sprinkling petals in front of Guruji with tears of love and joy , and someone doing it because they have been told to. 



sikhconvert said:


> Forgive me if any of this is wrong, I'm very novice at Sikhi.



no forgiveness needed, asking questions is how we all learn, however do remember, no one has the definitive, what is right for you only you know, all we can do as a community is give our own opinions


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## Ishna (Aug 27, 2016)

Original said:


> ..because it is the living God of the Sikh.



Isn't this the very definition of an idol?


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## Harkiran Kaur (Aug 27, 2016)

Ishna said:


> Isn't this the very definition of an idol?



No, an Idol is a man made representation (image) of a deity.  SGGSJ is not an image of something else. It is what it is on its own. Further, it's not the pages or binding or ink that is revered. What is living is the 'word' the divine knowledge contained within it. And by the divine knowledge I don't even mean the written words. I mean the meaning... the widsom inherent in them. Case in point, even if a complete bir of SGGSJ were burned to ashes, the knowledge that it contained does not cease to exist. That knowledge which is TRUTH, can not be ever destroyed. THAT is what is being revered, respected. That TRUTH is what is living. We are told, bani (the word) IS the Guru, the Guru IS bani (the word).


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## sikhconvert (Aug 27, 2016)

Harkiran Kaur said:


> In Sikhi, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is considered (and treated as) our Guru. There were ten Gurus in human form, and then Guru Gobind Singh Ji passed Guruship onto SGGSJ.
> SGGSJ is not worshipped in an idol worship kind of way... rather devout respect, as the current 'body' of all the knowledge of not just the human Gurus, but other spiritual figures as well.
> 
> Bani Guru Guru Hai Bani. Means the word IS the Guru, Guru IS the word. Meaning the wisdom contained within Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (not the pages, or the ink etc). So we are giving deepest respect to this divine knowledge.



This actually makes sense, thank you for answering!


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## Original (Aug 28, 2016)

Harkiran Kaur said:


> No, an Idol is a man made representation (image) of a deity.  SGGSJ is not an image of something else. It is what it is on its own. Further, it's not the pages or binding or ink that is revered. What is living is the 'word' the divine knowledge contained within it. And by the divine knowledge I don't even mean the written words. I mean the meaning... the widsom inherent in them. Case in point, even if a complete bir of SGGSJ were burned to ashes, the knowledge that it contained does not cease to exist. That knowledge which is TRUTH, can not be ever destroyed. THAT is what is being revered, respected. That TRUTH is what is living. We are told, bani (the word) IS the Guru, the Guru IS bani (the word).


Harkiran- it's Sunday morning, for me,  if I'm not attending social functions, I'd knuckle down to a good meditation. Need I say, what a beautiful start to that end having digested your post above. Succinctly written and beautifully explained - thank you !


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## Ishna (Aug 28, 2016)

Harkiran Kaur said:


> No, an Idol is a man made representation (image) of a deity.  SGGSJ is not an image of something else. It is what it is on its own. Further, it's not the pages or binding or ink that is revered. What is living is the 'word' the divine knowledge contained within it. And by the divine knowledge I don't even mean the written words. I mean the meaning... the widsom inherent in them. Case in point, even if a complete bir of SGGSJ were burned to ashes, the knowledge that it contained does not cease to exist. That knowledge which is TRUTH, can not be ever destroyed. THAT is what is being revered, respected. That TRUTH is what is living. We are told, bani (the word) IS the Guru, the Guru IS bani (the word).



Thanks, however I was asking Original, as he stated that SGGSJ is the living God of the Sikh.  If that's not what he means, perhaps he can elabourate, lest fertile minds take it to mean that the SGGSJ is treated quite like an idol because it is the God of the Sikhs.


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## Original (Aug 28, 2016)

Ishna said:


> Isn't this the very definition of an idol?


Ishna Ji, to be honest, as I write I can't say I know. I will look it up, but by the by, quite often in philosophy, a definition  is only a rough n ready starting-point to open the dialogue, not something to close it down. Suffice to say, yours is an interesting observation.


Ishna said:


> Thanks, however I was asking Original


..I concur with Harkiran Ji [post #6]


Ishna said:


> as he stated that SGGSJ is the living God of the Sikh.


..I've answered a direct question with a direct answer, that is not to say, it is absolute.


Ishna said:


> If that's not what he means, perhaps he can elabourate


lol...please be more specific !


Ishna said:


> lest fertile minds take it to mean that the SGGSJ is treated quite like an idol because it is the God of the Sikhs.


..no comment, but it's true to say, Guru Ji's early morning inauguration, night sleep under a canopy, which is decorated and weaved of the finest textures amidst the blue roses that produce fragrant ambience have transformed GGS to *Sri* Guru Granth Sahib *Ji*, all in the name of love and devotion. Human volition beyond calculation. And, if lest fertile minds perceive it otherwise, so be it, for the Guru is transcendent of such human cognisance.


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## Harry Haller (Aug 28, 2016)

Harkiran Kaur said:


> No, an Idol is a man made representation (image) of a deity.



Does it have to be man made? Did not our ancestors worship the sun, the moon, the sky, the oceans?


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## Harkiran Kaur (Aug 28, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> Does it have to be man made? Did not our ancestors worship the sun, the moon, the sky, the oceans?



Yes they did but the sun itself was not the idol... They literally worshipped the sun. They thought the sun itself WAS a god. Representations / recreations of it on this planet would have been the idol. An idol (not speaking about usage as in a music idol) but in religious sense is something created in the image of the entity being worshipped and not the original itself.


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## swarn bains (Aug 28, 2016)

The knowledge contained in SGGS is divine and it is the straight path for the follower to become divine. The SGGS in Sikhism is equivalent to a living guru. If one is devoted to SGGS as one is to a living guru. The devotee can become divine. Because of that we consider the SGGS as our living guru and we provide all the facilities to it as one would give to a living guru. Let us see; if the knowledge in SGGS does have the same qualities then we would not consider it as a living guru and not give the same honour as a living guru. Remember: do not blame SGGS if the devotee is not committed to it. Then it is your own faualt


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## Harry Haller (Aug 28, 2016)

swarn bains said:


> The knowledge contained in SGGS is divine and it is the straight path for the follower to become divine. The SGGS in Sikhism is equivalent to a living guru. If one is devoted to SGGS as one is to a living guru. The devotee can become divine. Because of that we consider the SGGS as our living guru and we provide all the facilities to it as one would give to a living guru. Let us see; if the knowledge in SGGS does have the same qualities then we would not consider it as a living guru and not give the same honour as a living guru. Remember: do not blame SGGS if the devotee is not committed to it. Then it is your own faualt



Sir, 

May I ask you how you felt the Gurus wished to be treated when they were alive? do you have any knowledge on this?


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## swarn bains (Aug 28, 2016)

Yes I do; It is more serious than Sikh philosophy network. It is like a sweet fed to a mute. he eats enjoys and jesters it but cannot say from the mouth. This is a social site and the mind of the questioners and writers does not go that far.

next for the new Sikh. we consider SGGS as a living guru and pay same respect as to a living guru and we get the same lesson from it as we would get from a living guru
This is what is mentioned in it  and it is as good as the lesson from a living guru. just read the english part.
ਜਿਨਗੁਰਕਾਭਾਣਾਮੰਨਿਆਤਿਨਘੁਮਿਘੁਮਿਜਾਏ॥੨॥

I praise those who self surrender and obey guru’s will. ||2||

ਜਿਨਸਤਿਗੁਰੁਪਿਆਰਾਦੇਖਿਆਤਿਨਕਉਹਉਵਾਰੀ॥

I admire those who met the beloved guru.

ਜਿਨਗੁਰਕੀਕੀਤੀਚਾਕਰੀਤਿਨਸਦਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ॥੩॥

I am forever a sacrifice to those who serve the guru. ||3||

ਹਰਿਹਰਿਤੇਰਾਨਾਮੁਹੈਦੁਖਮੇਟਣਹਾਰਾ॥

Your name, O Lord, is the destroyer of sufferings.

ਗੁਰਸੇਵਾਤੇਪਾਈਐਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਨਿਸਤਾਰਾ॥੪॥

The guru-willed attain salvation by serving the guru. ||4||

ਜੋਹਰਿਨਾਮੁਧਿਆਇਦੇਤੇਜਨਪਰਵਾਨਾ॥

Those who recite God’s name are accepted by God.

ਤਿਨਵਿਟਹੁਨਾਨਕੁਵਾਰਿਆਸਦਾਸਦਾਕੁਰਬਾਨਾ॥੫॥

Nanak is a sacrifice to them forever and owes them. ||5||

ਸਾਹਰਿਤੇਰੀਉਸਤਤਿਹੈਜੋਹਰਿਪ੍ਰਭਭਾਵੈ॥

Praise, that pleases God is His true praise.

ਜੋਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਪਿਆਰਾਸੇਵਦੇਤਿਨਹਰਿਫਲੁਪਾਵੈ॥੬॥

The guru-willed who serve the beloved God; reap the reward. ||6||

ਜਿਨਾਹਰਿਸੇਤੀਪਿਰਹੜੀਤਿਨਾਜੀਅਪ੍ਰਭਨਾਲੇ॥

Those who love God are attached to God devotionally.

ਓਇਜਪਿਜਪਿਪਿਆਰਾਜੀਵਦੇਹਰਿਨਾਮੁਸਮਾਲੇ॥੭॥

They recite God’s name and live by it. ||7||

ਜਿਨਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਪਿਆਰਾਸੇਵਿਆਤਿਨਕਉਘੁਮਿਜਾਇਆ॥

I worship those guru-willed who worship the beloved God.

ਓਇਆਪਿਛੁਟੇਪਰਵਾਰਸਿਉਸਭੁਜਗਤੁਛਡਾਇਆ॥੮॥

They attain salvation and with their family and the whole world. ||8||

ਗੁਰਿਪਿਆਰੈਹਰਿਸੇਵਿਆਗੁਰੁਧੰਨੁਗੁਰੁਧੰਨੋ

My guru serves the Lord with love. I admire the guru.

ਗੁਰਿਹਰਿਮਾਰਗੁਦਸਿਆਗੁਰਪੁੰਨੁਵਡਪੁੰਨੋ॥੯॥

The guru showed me God’s path; the guru did the greatest service. ||9||


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## Harry Haller (Aug 28, 2016)

swarn bains said:


> Yes I do; It is more serious than Sikh philosophy network. It is like a sweet fed to a mute. he eats enjoys and jesters it but cannot say from the mouth. This is a social site and the mind of the questioners and writers does not go that far.
> 
> next for the new Sikh. we consider SGGS as a living guru and pay same respect as to a living guru and we get the same lesson from it as we would get from a living guru
> This is what is mentioned in it  and it is as good as the lesson from a living guru. just read the english part.
> ...



Thank you, however, my interest lies in how the Gurus wished to be treated when alive, could you assist?


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