# What Was Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Last Name?



## Kamala (Jan 14, 2012)

It would help if you answer this please.


Note to admin: Why did you delete my prev thread? You could have messaged me and explained.


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## Admin (Jan 14, 2012)

*Warning*: Threads with no content are considered as spam and deleted without notice... if you would not provide a premise to your question it is considered as spam and trolling... There is/was no need for any kind of explanation. *This thread will be closed or deleted in due course of time without notice.*


:blueturban:
Gurfateh!


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## Harry Haller (Jan 14, 2012)

Guru Nanak's last name was ji!


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## Ambarsaria (Jan 14, 2012)

harry haller said:


> Guru Nanak's last name was ji!


Perhaps we need to watch for spam accompalices.  I was watching and saw Kamala ji and Prakash.S.Bagga ji login at the same time even though one claims to be in India and other in Canada with 10+ hours time difference and too inappropriate for someone to be logged in at  just before 4am in Canada when it is 2PM in India.

Just a thought.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jan 14, 2012)

Ambarsaria said:


> Perhaps we need to watch for spam accompalices.  I was watching and saw Kamala ji and Prakash.S.Bagga ji login at the same time even though one claims to be in India and other in Canada with 10+ hours time difference and too inappropriate for someone to be logged in at  just before 4am in Canada when it is 2PM in India.
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> Sat Sri Akal.



Ha Ha..I always thought it was.."Birds of  a feather fly together....but now its also possible.."Birds of a feather WAKE UP together..even if continents apart..Ha ha Good one that...and Harry Ji..good answer too...JI Ji Ji...always pays to be polite as well JI...just a thought for LOL..ha ha..


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## BhagatSingh (Jan 14, 2012)

Lol

Kamala ji what is the point of this question? His last name was Bedi but why do you ask? 
The thread will be closed down if you don't explain.

BEDI, a subcaste of the Khatris, Prakritized form of the Sanskrit kstriya which is one of the four caste groups into which the Hindu society is divided. The Khatris are mainly Hindus though there is among them a Sikh element which is small in number but important historically.There are no Muhammadans in the caste because a Khatri after conversion into Islam ceases to be a Khatri and becomes a Khoja. The Khatris are further divided into four subgroups Bahri, Khukhrain, Bunjahi and Sarin. Bahris have twelve castes, Khukhrain eight, Bunjahi fiftytwo and Sarins twenty.

In Sikhism, the Bedi caste became preeminent because of the birth into it of Guru Nanak, founder of the faith.Although the caste acquired sacred character which is enjoyed not only by the descendants of Guru Nanak but by all those born into this caste group, yet this inherited sanctity has not altered the social status of the people within the caste.A legend narrated in Bachitra Natak by Guru Gobind Singh refers to the Pauranic division of the Ksatriyas into three branchesSolar, Lunar and Agnikula (Fire race). According to this tradition, the Bedis belong to the Solar race and are descendants of Kusa, the twin brother of Lava and son of Lord Rama. Owing to a misunderstanding, the descendants of Kusa and Lava fought amongst themselves.

In this fight, the descendants of Kusa were defeated and they rehabilitated themselves at Kashi (Varanasi) where they studied the Vedas and thus came to be called Vedis: in Punjabi V often turns phonetically into a `b*. Vedis became Bedis.Bedis are mostly concentrated in Dera Baba Nanak, in Gurdaspur district, in the Punjab.Among Sikhs, the Bedi lineage continued after Guru Nanak through his younger son Baba Lakhmi Das. Lakhmi Das`s son Dharam Das settled down at Dera Baba Nanak. Two other important centres of Bedis in the Punjab were at Una, Hoshiarpur district, and Kallar, Rawalpindi district.

Two of the charismatic personalities of later period in the line were Sahib Singh Bedi (1756-1834), a contemporary of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and Baba Sir Khem Singh Bedi (1832-1905), one of the founders of the Singh Sabha movement in the seventies of the twentieth century.

References:

1. Rose, H.A., A G/ossary of the Castes and Tribes of the Punjab and North-West Province. Patiala, 1970
2. Nara, Ishar Singh, RajaJogi arthatJivan Itihas Sri Baba Sahib Singh ji Bedi. Delhi, n.d.
3. Sobha Ram, Bhai, Gur-bilas Baba Sahib Singh Bedi. Patiala, 1988
http://www.thesikhencyclopedia.com/arts-and-artists/bedi


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jan 15, 2012)

Baba SIR Khem Singh bedi insited on claiming himslef GURU..and wanted special seating arrangements in Gurdwaras (Special daree/carpet and Gadella round pillow etc ). The SIR title is self explanatory...he was a British tout.
The Singh Sabha Movement and subsequent SRM in which a SPECIFIC Para was put in stating: ALL seated in the Guru darbar shall be EQUALLY seated. NO ONE shall have or demand any special darees/ gadellas etc while in the Darbar of SGGS. THIS Proviso was added in Specially due to baba Khem Singh bedi.
He had "inserted" himself into the emerging Singh sabha Movement as a British Agent but was soon seen for what he was...The British saw the emerging Singh sabha Mobement and Gurdwara sudhaar movement was seen as an ENEMY of the STATE by the British and they wnated their agents inside it to control it....


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jan 15, 2012)

The Bachitar natak author..sees the GURU ANGAD and GURU AMARDASS Ji as very INCONVENIENT to his tale....Hence he does mention Guru nanak Ji and the Bedis..then JUMPS STRAIGHT to the SODHIS from Guru ramdass Ji !!! There is absolutley no mention of Guru Angad ji and Guru Amardass Ji in this BN tale...supposedly written by GURU GOBIND SINGH JI !!! The reason is Guur Angad Ji and Guru Amardass Ji are of a Diffenrent tribal Group...and as such highly inconveneint  additions to the lineage...


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## Ambarsaria (Jan 15, 2012)

BhagatSingh said:


> Two of the charismatic personalities of later period in the line were Sahib Singh Bedi (1756-1834), a contemporary of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and *Baba Sir Khem Singh Bedi (1832-1905)*, one of the founders of the Singh Sabha movement in the seventies of the twentieth century.


Bhagat Singh veer ji read the posts of Gyani Jarnail Singh ji above.

_So indirectly your material is mis-leading again.  There were touts then and there are far too many touts now of interest anti-Sikh.__  It brings many benefits to such people personal, fame, positions, access to high officials and so on.  

_


> _Unfortunately many at spn too with some well-camouflaged and some so ignorantly naked with a prime motive to show Sikhs are just Hindus._



We just need to be vigilant and not to become one by self or be so trapped with their projected sincerity in asking questions and translating Gurbani with RAMu, SHAMu; Sanskrit Grammar, and so on.  These people simply are attacking SGGS directly and indirectly, our last Guru ji in the guise of discourse.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## BhagatSingh (Jan 16, 2012)

Gyani ji,
What is the source for that misinformation?
You are a revered member on the forum. You ought to be more careful with what you post as many people will readily believe it.

Khem Singh neither asked to be guru nor asked for special seat. His admirers did so out of love. Just as my family and I might give you a special seat and bed in my home if you ever visit. This was not a new thing, it was always done with revered members of the community. 
All Singh Sabha were influenced by the British (European). Their writings indicate such an influence. Maharaja Ranjit Singh was the one to invite their influence. Only the Nihangs put up a strong opposition and remained traditional with their beliefs, martial arts, etc.

This article from the Sikh Cyber Museum paints a much more accurate picture of Khem Singh Bedi.
_Khem Singh Bedi, Baba Sir
A founder of the Singh Sabha movement (1832-1905)
Was born on 21 February 1832 at Kallar, a small town in Rawalpindi district, now in Pakistan. He was a direct descendant, in the thirteenth place, of Guru Nanak. He received the rites of amrit at the hands of the celebrated Baba Bir Singh of Naurangabad. His father Baba Atar Singh was killed in a family feud on 25 November 1839. Khem Singh and his elder brother Sampuran Singh inherited jagfirs in the Jalandhar Doab along with 41 villages in Dipalpur tahsil of Gugera, later Montgomery (Sahival), district. On the annexation of the Punjab to the British dominions in 1849, 14 of these villages were resumed by the new government.

During the uprising of 1857, Baba Khem Singh assisted the British in quelling a local revolt in Gugera district. He personally took part in a number of skirmishes, proving himself an excellent marksman with gun and rifle. While accompanying Extra-Assistant Commissioner Berkeley on a drive to reopen communications with Multan, Khem Singh distinguished himself in a cavalry charge on 21 September 1857. The following day He barely escaped death in an anbush in which Berkeley was killed.

The Government of India bestowed on him a khill'at or robe of honour of the value of 1,000 rupees and a double barrelled rifle. His jagirs were enhanced from time to time and, towards the end of his life, his possessions in land in Montgomery district alone amounted to 28,272 acres. He was appointed a magistrate in 1877 and an honorary munsif in 1878. He was made Companion of the Indian Empire (C.I.E.) in 1879, was nominated to the Viceroy's Legislative Council in 1893, and when the Indian Council Act was extended to the Punjab in 1897, he was among the first nonofficial members nominated to the Punjab legislature. He was knighted in 1898 (K.C.I.E.).

Baba Khem Singh was sensitive to the decline that had set in Sikh society after the occupation of the Punjab by the British and to the inroads being made by Christian proselytization. The gravity of the situation was brought home to the community dramatically when, at the beginning of 1873, four Sikh students of the Amritsar Mission School proclaimed their intention of renouncing their faith and embracing Christianity. The Sikhs convened a meeting at Amritsar on 30 July 1873, led by Baba Khem Singh Bedi, Sardar Thakur Singh Sandhanvalia and Kanvar Bikrama Singh of Kapurthala. As a result of their deliberations, a society called Sri Guru Singh Sabha was established at a largely attended gathering on the occasion of Dussehra, 1 October 1873.

Singh Sabhas began to spring up at other places as well. A co-ordinating Khalsa Diwan was formed at Amritsar on 12 April 1883, with Baba Khem Singh as president and Bhai Gurmukh Singh of Lahore as chief secretary. Serious differences, however, soon arose between the two. Baba Khem Singh, being a direct descendant of Guru Nanak, was glorified by his followers which was resented by many. At the Baisakhi divan at Amritsar in 1884, he was given the *customary* cushioned seat in the presence of the Guru Granth Sahib. The group led by Bhai Gurmukh Singh protested. A schism arose. Baba Khem Singh's supporters were commonly burlesqued as gadail party.

A separate Khalsa Diwan was set up at Lahore in April 1886. Baba Khem Singh, supported by the Patron of the Amritsar Diwan, Raja Bikram Singh of Faridkot, secured the excommunication of Bhai Gurmukh Singh under the seal of the Golden Temple. This, however, did not help him retain his position among the Sikh masses; henceforth, his influence was restricted to the Pothohar region and to some areas in Western Punjab. There he preached among the Sahajdharis, and brought a large number into the Sikh fold.

Besides the propagation of Sikh faith, Baba Khem Singh's important contribution lies in the spread of education among the Sikh masses, especially women. In 1855, the dispatch of the Court of Directors of the East India Company, which initiated a new era in Indian education, was received at Lahore. The following year the Punjab Government established the Department of Public Instruction and planned to open 30 singleteacher primary schools in each district. Baba Khem Singh lent his full support to the scheme. He also opened schools on his own in the Rawalpindi division. Out of his immense wealth he gave away liberally for this purpose and at least fifty schools for boys and girls were opened in the Punjab through his help. On the occasion of the marriage of his daughter in 1893, he donated Ks 300,000 for religious and charitable purposes. Half of this amount was for setting up a college at Rawalpindi. As a beginning, a vocational school was opened there, in early 1894, with provision for training in dyeing, photography, carpentry, tailoring, etc. Provision was made for subsidized board and lodging for poor students.

Baba Khem Singh lived in princely style and enjoyed the reverence of hundreds of thousands of followers in Western Punjab and what later became the North-West Frontier Province. He was on a tour of the latter in the spring of 1905 when he suddenly fell ill. On 8 April 1905, he left Peshawar by rail in a state of serious sickness and feebleness, and died at Montgomery on 10 April 1905._
*http://www.sikhcybermuseum.org.uk/People/KhemSinghBedi.htm*
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An excerpt from Bachittar Natak (pages 129-130). How could Nanak X forget Nanak II and Nanak III?

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
दोहरा ॥
DOHRA

ਤਿਨ ਬੇਦੀਅਨ ਕੀ ਕੁਲ ਬਿਖੈ ਪ੍ਰਗਟੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਇ ॥
तिन बेदीअन की कुल बिखै प्रगटे नानक राइ ॥
Nanak Rai took birth in the Bedi clan.

ਸਭ ਸਿੱਖਨ ਕੋ ਸੁਖ ਦਏ ਜਹ ਤਹ ਭਏ ਸਹਾਇ ॥੪॥
सभ सि्खन को सुख दए जह तह भए सहाइ ॥४॥
He brought comfort to all his disciples and helped them at all times.4.

ਚੌਪਈ ॥
चौपई ॥
CHAUPAI

ਤਿਨ ਇਹ ਕਲ ਮੋ ਧਰਮੁ ਚਲਾਯੋ ॥ ਸਭ ਸਾਧਨ ਕੋ ਰਾਹੁ ਬਤਾਯੋ ॥
तिन इह कल मो धरमु चलायो ॥ सभ साधन को राहु बतायो ॥
Guru Nanak spread Dharma in the Iron age and put the seekers on the path.

ਜੋ ਤਾਂ ਕੇ ਮਾਰਗ ਮਹਿ ਆਏ ॥ ਤੇ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਸੰਤਾਏ ॥੫॥
जो तां के मारग महि आए ॥ ते कबहूं नहि पाप संताए ॥५॥
Those who followed the path propagated by him, were never harmed by the vices.5.

ਜੇ ਜੇ ਪੰਥ ਤਵਨ ਕੇ ਪਰੇ ॥ ਪਾਪ ਤਾਪ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਹਰੇ ॥
जे जे पंथ तवन के परे ॥ पाप ताप तिन के प्रभ हरे ॥
All those who came within his fold, they were absolved of all their sins and troubles,

ਦੂਖ ਭੂਖ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨ ਸੰਤਾਏ ॥ ਜਾਲ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਬੀਚ ਨ ਆਏ ॥੬॥
दूख भूख कबहूं न संताए ॥ जाल काल के बीच न आए ॥६॥
Their sorrows, their wants were vanished and even their transmigration came to and end.6.

ਨਾਨਕ ਅੰਗਦ ਕੋ ਬਪੁ ਧਰਾ ॥ ਧਰਮ ਪ੍ਰਚੁਰ ਇਹ ਜਗ ਮੋ ਕਰਾ ॥
नानक अंगद को बपु धरा ॥ धरम प्रचुर इह जग मो करा ॥
Nanak transformed himself to Angad and spread Dharma in the world.

ਅਮਰਦਾਸ ਪੁਨਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥ ਜਨੁ ਦੀਪਕ ਤੇ ਦੀਪ ਜਗਾਯੋ ॥੭॥
अमरदास पुनि नामु कहायो ॥ जनु दीपक ते दीप जगायो ॥७॥
He was called Amar Das in the next transformation, a lamp was lit from the lamp.7.

ਜਬ ਬਰਦਾਨਿ ਸਮੈ ਵੁਹ ਆਵਾ ॥ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਤਬ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਹਾਵਾ ॥
जब बरदानि समै वुह आवा ॥ रामदास तब गुरू कहावा ॥
When the opportune time came for the boon, then the Guru was called Ram Das.

ਤਿਹ ਬਰਦਾਨਿ ਪੁਰਾਤਨਿ ਦੀਆ ॥ ਅਮਰਦਾਸਿ ਸੁਰਪੁਰਿ ਮਗੁ ਲੀਆ ॥੮॥
तिह बरदानि पुरातनि दीआ ॥ अमरदासि सुरपुरि मगु लीआ ॥८॥
The old boon was bestowed upon him, when Amar Das departed for the heavens.8.

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਅੰਗਦਿ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨਾ ॥ ਅਮਰਦਾਸ ਅੰਗਦ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ ॥
स्री नानक अंगदि करि माना ॥ अमरदास अंगद पहिचाना ॥
Sri Nanak was recognized in Angad, and Angad in Amar Das.

ਅਮਰਦਾਸ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥ ਸਾਧਨ ਲਖਾ ਮੂੜ੍ਹ ਨਹਿ ਪਾਯੋ ॥੯॥
अमरदास रामदास कहायो ॥ साधन लखा मूड़्ह नहि पायो ॥९॥
Amar Das was called Ram Das, only the saints know it and the fools did not.9.

ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਸਭਹੂੰ ਕਰ ਜਾਨਾ ॥ ਏਕ ਰੂਪ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ ॥
भिंन भिंन सभहूं कर जाना ॥ एक रूप किनहूं पहिचाना ॥
The people on the whole considered them as separate ones, but there were few who recognized them as one and the same.

ਜਿਨ ਜਾਨਾ ਤਿਨ ਹੀ ਸਿਧ ਪਾਈ ॥ ਬਿਨ ਸਮਝੇ ਸਿਧਿ ਹਾਥਿ ਨ ਆਈ ॥੧੦॥
जिन जाना तिन ही सिध पाई ॥ बिन समझे सिधि हाथि न आई ॥१०॥
Those who recognized them as One, they were successful on the spiritual plane. Without recognition there was no success.10.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jan 17, 2012)

Bhagat Singh ji,
the article you quote gives the same information i have provided.
There is NO such thing as a "Customary" seat in the presence of the SGGS. Even the wedding couples have been stopped from being afforded a special daree/carpet/chadar spread in front of SGGS during Lavan..they too sit on the same flooring as the sangat.
Only the ragis have a stage..in the darbar sahib Amritsar..even the RAGIS sit on te floor at the same level as the SGGS !! Here even the GURU is on the same level as the sangat.

2. Its very naive to suggest....OH I DONT wnat this..my followers offer it out of "love/respect..blah balh.." Ask any modern day Baba/Sant...as to why they allow people to matha tek to them....or call them baba ji Sant ji...or publish posters showing them higher thna the GURUS..or offer them goluck..the STOCK ANSWER..."the snagats do it out of Love/respect..what can I do...

3. Was Sant Bhinderawallah any less loved//respected..than say Baba ji Sant Maharaj Ji Dhadriwallh ?? Yet there is no incident of anyone matha teking to bhinderawallh..he used to carry a SOTA..he never had any birthdays..or goluck collections..or luxury cars or special seating arrangements...

Read any book on Singh Sabha Movement...baba Khem Singh bedi carries the same information  ... HE CAUSED the SHCISM and break up of the Single Singh sabha into 2..Lahore and Amritsar.....He was the force behind what came later....later .....GURMUKH SINGH JI was EXCOMMUNICATED..by whom ?? Akal takhat of course !! Becasue the AT jathedar was khem bedi chamcha as well as British Govt TOUT...page 727 of dr harjinder dilgeers sikh history vol 3 gives this in bold. Gyani DITT Singh was also excommunicated on various issues one of which was he advocated NO CASTE in Sikhism..while Khem Singh BEDI prouldy proclaimed his caste...

The REAL Singh Sabha Movement later became powerful..and Khem singh Bedi was NOT a part of THAT...why not ??....Because the SIKHS ( and not those loving followers of khem singh bedi) came to the fore and framed the SRM which Specifically BANS the "customary" seat of people like Khem singh...

IF there were Touts back then..sadly TODAY their numbers are far greater...thats why SIKH HISTORY is being sytematically given the "MISINFORMATION" label....

This is off the cuff..I will get back with more information on Khem singh bedi...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jan 17, 2012)

Also read page 561 of..Sikhism..Its Philosophy and History published by IOSS Chandigarh...exact same description of Khem singh bedi...self serving, demanding specila seating etc...and proud of his caste and lineage..caused the RIFT in the Singh Sabha Movement !!

On the BN ..mere "mention" of the names of Guru Angad ji and Guru Amardass Ji is a matter of necessity...same as done in the Chandi Vaar paurree read in Ardass...nothing compared to the elaborate chapters written on the Backward compatible Bedis >< SODHI Clans going back AEONS..promises made by Bedis to Transfer power to the Sodhis after just one BEDI....but then came the two intervening Gurus...very inconvenient.. Among the Sodhis Gurbilas patshai chhevin,  gurbilas patshahi Dasvin bachitar natak etc are huge books compared to single line mentions...THAT is the gist of my argument.

3. Guru gobind Singh ji is NEVER simply as "Successor" to NANAK as the previous NINE Nanaks are...He is said to have coem on the direct Special orders of AKAL PURAKH..to begin a New Panth..and He had the blessings of Shiva and the DEVI of course...ALL this "separation" is NOT stated in the GURBANI of our GURU SGGS..but in OUTSIDE BOOKS of unknown authors...so there is an AGENDA of sorts to separate the GURUS along lineage/caste/purpose of coming/blessings of whom etc...especiallya s GURU NANAK JI has no Boon form Shiva or Devi etc...and He wasnt "ordered" to descend and start a New panth which in FACT HE DID..the KHALSA PANTH in 1469 !! Simply by being BORN..as satgur nanak pargitayah..Mittee dhund jagg chanan Hoyah..Maria SIKKA jagat vich..NIRMAL PANTH CHALIYAH...Bhai gurdass Ji...


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## Kamala (Jan 24, 2012)

Lol I got my answer. Thanks ;p


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