# The Concept Of Jooth/Juth?



## TigerStyleZ (Feb 10, 2013)

WJKK WJKF ,

I was wondering what the Concept of 'Jooth or Juth' is all about.. Can please someone explain it to me? 
Example:  Amritdharis don´t eat from others, why is this so ? What were our Gurus thinking about it ? When we eat/take food from others? Why we can´t eat from others? Yes, I know there is risk of poisoning etc.. but if you know the other person from childhood? 
I mean this is kind like Brahaaman's who treat lower caste as 'untouchables'.

I mean, there are Sakhis about Guru Nanak Dev ji and other Gurus who ate from other persons.


----------



## spnadmin (Feb 10, 2013)

*Re: The Concept of Jooth/Juth ?*

Sorry. I got tangled up in moving this thread to the wrong existing thread. I am hoping to get right this time around. 

This thread covers the idea of jooth in depth.* It is not a fundamental of Sikhi. Period.*

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/general-discussion/35196-concept-of-jhoot-re-jootha-food-4.html


----------



## spnadmin (Feb 10, 2013)

*Re: The Concept of Jooth/Juth ?*

TigherStyle ji

Jhoot refers to the idea that armitdhari may not eat leftover food, food prepared by non-amritdhari or from plates shared with non-amritdhari. This can extend to refusing to attend parties that are catered. IMHO it is not dissimilar from food restrictions of extreme wings in orthodox Judaism. Among Jews, the concern is that their food be completely kosher, or "pure."

In Sikhism There are only 4 kurehits. A restriction on leftover food or food preparation is not included. Forbidding jewelry is another example. The person seeking baptism must not wear jewelry at the ceremony of amrit sanchar. All Sikhs should avoid piercings or jewelry where piercing is involved. There is no other restriction against, however, many will say NO JEWELRY. Instead of seeing this as a personal decision.  Let me quote from Gyani ji 



> SRM mentions FOUR BAJJAR KUREHITS...
> 1. dishonouring the Kesh - cutting, trimming removal colouring etc etc.
> 2. Consume Halal meat
> 3. Consume drugs tobacco etc
> ...



People like to add for a variety of reasons. An example would be changing the restriction against eating halal to completely avoiding meet.  Over time these additions become hard-wired. 

For amritdhari, there are additional  "disciplines." 

Here is the discipline to be followed by a baptized Sikh according to Sikh Rehat Maryada. No mention of jooth.



> p.  After this, one from amongst the five beloved ones should explain to the initiates the discipline of the order :  * Today you are reborn in the true Guru's household, ending the cycle of migration, and joined the Khalsa Panth (order).  *Your spiritual father is now Guru Gobind Singh and spiritual mother, Mata Sahib Kaur. *Your place of birth is Kesgarh Sahib and your native place is Anandpur Sahib. You, being the sons of one father, are, inter-se yourselves and other baptised Sikhs, spiritual brothers. You have become the pure Khalsa, having renounced your previous lineage, professional  background, calling (occupation), beliefs, that is, having given up all connections with your caste, descent, birth, country, religion, etc. You are to worship none except the One Timeless Being (Waheguru) no God, Goddess, incarnation or prophet. You are not to think of anyone except the ten Gurus and anything except their gospel as your  saviour.
> 
> You are supposed to know Gurmukhi (Punjabi alphabet). (If you do not, you must learn it).  And recite, or listen in to the recitation of, the under mentioned scriptural compositions, the daily repetition of which is ordained, every day 1) The Japuji Sahib, (2) The Jaap Sahib, (3) The Ten Sawayyas (Quartrains), beginning "sarawag sudh", (4) The Sodar Rahiras and the Sohila. Besides, you should read from or listen in to the recitation from the Guru Granth Sahib .  Have, on your person, all the time, the five K's :
> 
> ...



The concept of jooth is a serious matter for some sects, but not all Sikhs. However you can see it is not part of the rehat. There are cultural reasons for it.


----------



## TigerStyleZ (Feb 10, 2013)

*Re: The Concept of Jooth/Juth ?*

Thank you SPNAdmin ji,

I used the Searchengine , but didnt find any helpful thing. I know the Rehit Maryada , and that  there  is nothing  written in it, but the Rehat Marayada of Akaal Takht was put together by high and learned SIkh Scholars and authorities  - and people who believe in this jooth concept bring that into debatation. Then they start telling that Gurus themselves never ate Jooth... whereas everything on this world is jooth...  Anyway they start off with some unlogical points.. I sometimes ask myself why they themselfs dont start laughing at what they said..

I mean we all drink fro the same Water - I dont understand this ILLlogical concept.. I want a clearifying post what this Jooth concept is all about - Why people stilll believe in it altough  it is very unlogical.


----------



## spnadmin (Feb 10, 2013)

*Re: The Concept of Jooth/Juth ?*



TigerStyleZ said:


> Thank you SPNAdmin ji,
> 
> I used the Searchengine , but didnt find any helpful thing. I know the Rehit Maryada , and that  there  is nothing  written in it, but the Rehat Marayada of Akaal Takht was put together by high and learned SIkh Scholars and authorities  - and people who believe in this jooth concept bring that into debatation. Then they start telling that Gurus themselves never ate Jooth... whereas everything on this world is jooth...  Anyway they start off with some unlogical points.. I sometimes ask myself why they themselfs dont start laughing at what they said..
> 
> I mean we all drink fro the same Water - I dont understand this ILLlogical concept.. I want a clearifying post what this Jooth concept is all about - Why people stilll believe in it altough  it is very unlogical.



A few thoughts on my end TigerStyleZji

One issue: 

"Rehat Maryada of Akal Takht was put together by ...Sikh Scholars and authorities - and people who believe in this jooth concept bring that into deliberation." *Many who follow the concept of "jooth" follow their own maryadas.* An example would be AKJ which has its own maryada that also requires women to wear turbans and cook only in steel pots. 

Another issue:

Some Sikhs who know the SRM hear of "jooth" and decide to add it to their own discipline. It can become a family or local custom. After time it is accepted as a fact.

"Jooth " is about keeping food spiritually pure. Remember that among brahmins a lower caste person could not even enter the courtyard surrounding the kitchen and outdoor areas where cooking took place. An entire area would need to be purified and the low caste person would be severely punished. These are ideas more than 1,000 years old. How easy is it to convince someone that *"jooth" is not about purity but about status?*

Final thought:

I posted a link to a longer thread on this issue. The thread is very clear. J*ooth is illogical, does not follow from the SRM and raises amritdharis to the status of brahmins within Sikhism. *If you cannot find a clear statement on the Internet then the reason must be that posters are either themselves unclear or the forum/web site has its own doctrines which hold that "jooth" is required.

Personally I cannot remember reading about 'jooth" in any of the scholarly literature.


----------



## spnadmin (Feb 10, 2013)

*Re: The Concept of Jooth/Juth ?*

Here is what I am talking about. This web site gives a green light to belief in "jooth" and proceeds to explain why it is a reasonable idea. Good and bad karmas are passed by cooking to the food we eat. 



> Food prepared by non-devotees, who don't worship Vaheguru, commit blatant sins, is avoided by Gursikhs and this avoidance of food prepared by non-devotees and partaking food prepared by Gursikhs is called Dietary Bibek in Sikhi.
> 
> When we analyse the Saakhi of Malik Bhago and Bhai Laalo, we clearly see that the affect of one’s good or bad Karma passes on to the food one cooks or even buys.
> 
> In Malik Bhago’s case, the food may not have been touched directly by him but still his bad Karma got transferred to his food and Guru Sahib demonstrated to the world by squeezing blood out of his Roti. This proves that even if certain food is not directly touched by a person, it can still be Jootha i.e. if dishonest earnings are used to buy ingredients for food, such food too is Jootha, as far as Gursikhs are concerned.



It is perfect example of a) the continuation of an ancient brahmin belief and b) it comes from the separate rehat of AKJ. From this link  http://www.gurmatbibek.com/contents.php?id=895


----------



## Luckysingh (Feb 10, 2013)

*Re: The Concept of Jooth/Juth ?*

I actually asked a very similar question not so long ago about 'bibek rehat' 

There is a thread about this that is worth looking at, and I'm pretty sure it will help answer your question.
Our Gyanji kindly helped explain and answer my query very well in that thread and now I actually do understand the logic and reasoning behind it, thanks to Gyanji's influence!

Once you differentiate between sikh discipline and brahmin mania then it becomes a little clear!
Check the thread below-

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/39618-bibek-rehit.html


----------



## spnadmin (Feb 10, 2013)

*Re: The Concept of Jooth/Juth ?*

Actually Luckysingh ji

I liked your reply. It sums things up re: bibek rehat



> I have come across some that are strict believers in this and I did respect them for that previously. However, I question it now and don't feel that it is pure gurmat because it borders with haumai and judging in my opinion.


----------



## TigerStyleZ (Feb 11, 2013)

*Re: The Concept of Jooth/Juth ?*

Thank you for all the answers - after readins several posts and articles - the Concept was clarified. Hah, I used wrong keywords to find this thread I guess , I wrote Jooth instead of Jhooth, and 'Bibek Rehat' was a missing Keyword as well. So thank you for all this quotations and links.

It is like I thought a continued Brahmin practice disguised as Jooth in Sikhi...
I mean , they eat food from their mothers...Isnt that Jooth as well.. Anyway I don´t understand why they themselves don´t see the falseness behind this Concept? Is it really just the manifestation or the corporate compilance destroying of Sikhi?

I personally would eat from my friend - whom I know from childhood. Because if we would know each other for so long ,I wouldnt care if he is black or any other thing. (Skincolour in this Case of Jooth will  be a an issue as well - people would say a DOUBLe NO NO , I bet!)



EDIT:
Ok, I came across a Post of Ambarsaria 


Ambarsaria said:


> NinduP ji your phoenetics is wrong in what you are asking for if it helps,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am confused now, why he quoted that it iswritten in the rehit marayada - I never saw that line ?


----------



## spnadmin (Feb 11, 2013)

*Re: The Concept of Jooth/Juth ?*



TigerStyleZ said:


> I am confused now, why he quoted that it iswritten in the rehit marayada - I never saw that line ?



This is the exact line: " One who eats/drinks Left-overs of the unbaptised or the fallen Sikhs " This is the entire section. Technically many things listed here lead to chastisement: 





> The undermentioned four  transgressions (tabooed practices) must be avoided
> 
> 1. Dishonouring the hair;
> 2. Eating the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way;
> ...



 It is at the very end of SRM, Section 6, Chapter xiii. 

Question: *Does this restriction qualify as jooth?* Is it the proper definition of jooth? Or are we once again talking about passing good and bad karmas through the food we eat? In Gurmatbibek that seems to be the key ingredient of jooth...passing bad karmas because of an impure cook. Not a dirty cook, but a cook with bad karmas to pass along. Can we be certain that amritdhari are so spiritually pure that none will pass bad karmas to the rest of us? :wink:


----------



## Ishna (Feb 11, 2013)

I don't know about anyone else but things seem to pop into and out of the online SRM on a regular basis... either that or it's just my crazy brain.


Thanks Adminji, you beat me to it!  Is the keyword 'left-overs'...?  You can eat food cooked by a non-Sikh, but just don't eat their left-overs!!  haha


----------



## spnadmin (Feb 11, 2013)

*The way it is worded an amritdhari can also eat left-overs of a non-Sikh.* It says left-over food of an unbaptized Sikh or fallen Sikh. Non Sikhs are OK.

To tell the truth Ishna ji This is a real mess. I found the line in only 1 of 5 versions of the SRM that I checked. That was the one posted on the SGPC website. The finding is itself ironic insofar as the SGPC recently participated in a Hindu festival of Kumbh Mela. '

The irony piles up. A chastisement is called for when an amritdhari associates with a former amritdhari who has cut his/her hair. That would mean that any amritdhari parent must shun a child, formerly amritdhari, who has cut his/her hair... or undergo chastisement.

But let's go back to the sakkhi of Guru Nanak squeezing blood out of a roti.



> When we analyse the Saakhi of Malik Bhago and Bhai Laalo, we clearly see that the affect of one’s good or bad Karma passes on to the food one cooks or even buys.
> 
> In Malik Bhago’s case, the food may not have been touched directly by him but still his bad Karma got transferred to his food and Guru Sahib demonstrated to the world by squeezing blood out of his Roti. This proves that even if certain food is not directly touched by a person, it can still be Jootha i.e. if dishonest earnings are used to buy ingredients for food, such food too is Jootha, as far as Gursikhs are concerned.



Is the lesson about bad karmas being transferred?  I know that I never will and never have eaten knowingly at a restaurant operated by the Mafia, or acting as a mob front organization. And not because I may get sick. These characters are mixed up with prostitution, racketeering, extortion, arson, money laundering, drug peddling, gun running, gambling, and more. Yes.. there is a lot of "uncleaness" there, and I don't want to get close to it or eat their food or pay money for the privilege. Their profits are gained from "blood." Honestly I believe that is the meaning of the sakkhi. Guru Nanak is not "squeezing blood" rather he is showing how only "blood" can be found in the food provided by a crook. It is food made of crime and suffering. 

The question of jooth then remains unresolved in the realm of Sikh orthodoxy, but I know amritdhari who eat the food of non Sikhs, and unbaptized Sikhs, and participate in catered luncheons and dinners. Cooking in steel pots and eating from steel plates is not required. Having only amritdhari to cook your food is not part of this. Frankly I doubt they would pick up a half-eaten sandwich left lying around by anyone, baptized or not.


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 11, 2013)

Perhaps this may help..
The Institution of Khandey batte DEE PAHUL is an INITIATION CEREMONY to ADMIT one into the KHALSA BROTHERHOOD.
One of the TABOOS this ceremony seeks to BREAK is one of CASTE..high vs Low...Brahmin vs Shudra...for THOUSANDS of YEARS a shudra couldnt go within a mile of a Brahmins house/esp his kitchen...its THAT BAD !!
So in the Ceremony...ALL sit together...DRINK from the SAME BOWL of "amrit"...eat from the SAME Bowl of Karrah parshaad...this is in order to BREAK THE TABOO of low/high/higher/better/whatever....ALL ARE EQUALS BEFORE THE PANJ and SGGS. Any and all "kurehiteyeahs..law breakers..have to stand up and CONFESS and be suitably "punished". So no one..rich or king or emperor can ESCAPE via his position/religious or worldly.
AFTER this ceremony all the newly admitted are advised to discard all previous practises and adopt the amritdharee ones...and hence the SRM line.  The Khandey batteh dee pahul creates a NEW SOCIAL ORDER..which follows its LAWS set out in SRM.

2. SECOND taboo which this CEREMONY seeks to BREAK..is "EATING LEFT OVERS..for SPIRITUAL PURIFICATION"....what many DONT KNOW is that in idnian religious tradition its much sought after to "EAT LEFT OVERS" of holy men..sadhus..Gurus..saints whatever...many human  Gurus actually SPIT into the FOOD to be served to devotees to "PURIFY IT"...gross but TRUE. Many SIKHS actually RUSH to eat the Left overs of Rapists like Manna Phova !! Gross but TRUE never the less !!!  IN Malaysia a politicla big Wig who also invited a few "honourable Sikhs" to attend the viist of a Holy SWAMI form Chennai to his home...actually passed around the Plate of elft overs of the Swami at the Dinner table....I was one of the 3 sikhs who got up and left...remaining 4 including a BABA JI type stayed and ate the JOOTH of the Swami in order to not offend the Swamis Malaysian political minister !!  THIS is the TYPE OF SITUATION the line in SRM seeks to PREVENT....its a catch 22 situation..HOW does ONE SECURE the INDEPENDENCE OF MIND of a KHALSA....without getting the "horns" locked with those who cry FOUL....like in "How dare a khalsa say he cant eat this food..am I a leper or what ??..how do we resolve this..its a reality...eat it and be damned..dont eat and be damned..????

Lets have the posts NOW...


----------



## spnadmin (Feb 11, 2013)

*Re: The Concept of Jooth/Juth ?*

Gyani jiThose are two good points.

This is all the SRM says (if you find the right copy that is) A baptized Sikh is liable for chastisement if   *One who eats/drinks Left-overs of the unbaptised or the fallen Sikhs*. Easy enough at face value. 

That is not such a big deal. The problem is it gets stormed up into all kinds of prohibitions and rules. In the end it does make a brahmin of an amritdhari. That happens betwixt and between Sikhs at gurdwara or in groups at home, at school. "Well better not eat at so-and-so's house/party because of the karmas, because of the pots, because it might be left over, because it may be prepared by a fallen Sikh." Also,  "Skip langar at that gurdwara because it is prepared by a sehajdhari!" So instead of eating/drinking together as one brotherhood of equals, the exact opposite thing happens. Some are clean and some are unclean. And keep the food of the dalit/unbaptized away from me and mine.

The common sense solution is something most of the rest of the world already suspects. Don't eat left-overs of anyone you don't know, preferably eat only left-overs from your own refrigerator. I am glad you walked out of the swami celebration after sussing out the hors d'oeuvres.  That was disgusting.


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 12, 2013)

and just see the "torment" Britons etc are going thru when Tesco admitted feeding them Horsemeat from Romanian slaughterhouses (totally unhygienic ??) instead of beef ?? isnt that the same as "eating" a swamis left overs to prove my spirituality ?? ha ha i dont suppose anyone can get it right...Guru ji had something in mind thats alltogether different form what some AKJ types have in mind...Day vs Night...horsemeat vs beef..?? isnt a horse also a mammal..like the pig..the lamb..the cow..the camel..whatever..so much mind searching..tormenting..all for what ?? The 1429 pages of SGGS say something 360 degrees different !!! What you eta may be bad/good for PHYSICAL BODY..BUt the Mind.mann/soul is NOT affected by diet food spirtuality is immune to this..and YES FOOD/DIETS etc is one powerful MIND CONTROL PSYCHOLOGY many millineums:icecreammunda: old...


----------



## Ishna (Feb 12, 2013)

You don't have to worry about the left-overs of this little unbaptised Sikh.. I never LEAVE any left-overs  hahahaha om-nom-nom-nom :interestedkudi: :icecreamkaur::icecreamkudi: :sippingcoffee:


----------



## Tejwant Singh (Feb 12, 2013)

The dogmas imposed by AKJ, Taksalis and others have made this beautiful life of pragmatism into the cesspool of Brahamnism. With these practices of jooth and such, they have turned themselves into the worst Brahmins who practice Apartheid in the name of Sikhi shamelessly.

Such is in the heart and it can only be obtained by using the only Tide- The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Tejwant Singh

PS: Horse meat is not bad. It is served in some chic restaurants in Las Vegas. I bought some meat Lasagna from Fresh N Easy (Tesco's American daughter). I have no idea how much horse meat it had.


----------



## Hardip Singh (Feb 12, 2013)

*Re: The Concept of Jooth/Juth ?*



spnadmin said:


> Here is what I am talking about. This web site gives a green light to belief in "jooth" and proceeds to explain why it is a reasonable idea. Good and bad karmas are passed by cooking to the food we eat.
> 
> 
> 
> It is perfect example of a) the continuation of an ancient brahmin belief and b) it comes from the separate rehat of AKJ. From this link  http://www.gurmatbibek.com/contents.php?id=895



This is Bibek and not Jhooth as being dicussed.


----------



## spnadmin (Feb 12, 2013)

*Re: The Concept of Jooth/Juth ?*

It comes from a web  page entitled Jhoot. I did not title the web page. Very much connected to the discussion of jooth. The Gurmatbibek folks titled it that way. 

Beg to differ with you because Jooth and dietary bibek are equated by some members of the panth. And that is why it is difficult to get a clear reading on exactly what jooht is.


Title and first part of the article: 


> *
> What is Jooth?*
> 
> *There is no English word for Jooth, perhaps because this concept is not present in the Western culture. The idea is that one’s Karma and nature gets transferred to deeds one does, including cooking food. The Avastha of a person gets affected by the food one eats. Jooth in essence is some sort of contamination or pollution that is infected by a person who is a non-devotee (non-Gursikh). Somehow, the Karmic dirt of one's sins affects the food one prepares and this is called Jooth. This Jooth is avoided by Gursikhs, by eating food prepared by Gursikhs alone. Food prepared by non-devotees, who don't worship Vaheguru, commit blatant sins, is avoided by Gursikhs and this avoidance of food prepared by non-devotees and partaking food prepared by Gursikhs is called Dietary Bibek in Sikhi.*


----------



## findingmyway (Feb 12, 2013)

Whenever this topic comes up I have one fundamental question.

How can the concept of jhooth/joot and the concept of langar be reconciled?


----------



## linzer (Feb 12, 2013)

Ishna said:


> I don't know about anyone else but things seem to pop into and out of the online SRM on a regular basis... either that or it's just my crazy brain.


 
Ishna ji,
 I'm so glad you noticed that too. I thought I was going nuts. I knew I'd read it then when I went back to find it again it was gone.
 I think somebody is messing with us.
:motherlove:


----------



## spnadmin (Feb 12, 2013)

findingmyway said:


> Whenever this topic comes up I have one fundamental question.
> 
> How can the concept of jhooth/joot and the concept of langar be reconciled?


 findingmyway ji

Good question! And I wonder too! The two ideas should never be irreconcilable, but people make it so. The concept of jooth - leftovers of a fallen Sikh, shoud not conflict with langar. No one is eating left-overs as far as I know. The food is prepared in front of our eyes. Not always by amritdharis.

So how does it happen? On the net and in private lives, and among members of sects who connect jooth to purity, as opposed to sanitation, some need to be certain that their langar does not come from anyone with paaps. They need to be certain that karmas will not pass from a bujjeri to an amritdhari person. I have even read in answer to your question... "Sikhs know they can survive for days without food. Eat less. Sleep less. If you go to that sangat, it will not harm you to skip the langar. You will not starve because you have the spiritual discipline to refuse." But langar is about the fellowship not the food. 

Now Gyani ji took great pains to explain the history of *A baptized Sikh is liable for chastisement if One who eats/drinks Left-overs of the unbaptised or the fallen Sikhs. *He explained that the requirement is there to stress equality and reject any possibility that food becomes part of a sanantan inspired food ritual. But that is missed, and sadly the one line in SRM leads some to forget the khalsa rejection of status and ritual.


----------



## Luckysingh (Feb 12, 2013)

My Lord !!!
Waheguru ji!!!

...This is getting more confusing the more I think about it !!
No jhoot from unbaptised sikh, 
Does that mean jhoot from a baptised sikh is ok ?
and Jhoot from your catholic room mate is also fine because he is not unbaptised sikh or fallen for that matter ?

I remember though a simple rule that my Dad taught me-
He said always finish your food, never waste, never have too much that you can't finish to start with.
He said to waste food or leave unfinished is like a sin or paap. Because the little that I am wasting is enough tosave someones life somewhere !!!
Getting back to what I was told when I was 5 yrs old, I actually realise the answer to this jhoot confusion.-
- ANSWER is that we should NOT leave any Jhoot and so there won't even be a problem of who eats it !!!


----------



## spnadmin (Feb 12, 2013)

Yes! It is just that simple. Thanks for a dose of common sense, per Guru Nanak Dev ji !


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 12, 2013)

read this....ALL THIS JHOOTH FOOD LEFT OVERS ETC IS FROM HINDUISM AND ITS BELEIFS..

IN THE MIDDLE PARA - FOOD FORM A "SINT" CARRIES HIS SPIRITUALITY...

http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-EPT/fran.htm

AND HERE LEFTOVER FOOD ETC IS CALLED PARSAAD !!

http://www.hinduism.co.za/prasada.htm


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 12, 2013)

MORE ON THESE RITUALS AND BELEIFS..WND WHERE THEY COEM FROM and..why SIKHS should NOT be following them...

http://www.kytemple.org/forms/templedetails.aspx?uc=3


----------



## Harry Haller (Feb 13, 2013)

As far as the SRM is concerned, I find it very much like reading outdated english translations of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I personally feel the SRM does more damage than good. Anything that bridges the chasm between Creator and man, that comes from man is always going to be suspect. 

When I was younger, I was the only child that was not amritdhari. I recall one of my cousins spitting out a sandwich bite, as I was not 'baptised'. I therefore set my heart on being amritdhari, my dream was to go to Amritsar and be complete when I was due to go to India aged 15. My request was refused, and in hindsight, I am grateful, I would have turned into the very amritdhari Sikh that I now pity. The one that knows all the traditions, all the rituals, all the prayers, but has no idea of the core philosophy. 

This type of Sikh is the first to admonish others for doing things 'the wrong way', and has little idea of the power and beauty of the religion. My parents were indeed farsighted. 

As for eating food from other people, I am not sure where I stand, as I often share my plate with my dog.


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 13, 2013)

This concept is very "Indian " ( HINDU.)
The Chinese eat from the same dishes..picking up foood from it and placing it on their small bowls..the Afghans Arabs Middle eastern all sit and dip their bread into the central plate..etc etc....ONLY the BRAHMINS who created the CASTE System have INVENTED this concept to keep their power base...
And if anyone claims its HYGIENIC..then how do you explain that INDIA is one of the most diseased nations..highest number of sick...and dying...its the dirtiest nation..so no go in that direction..those who "share" food are on the same level or higher than India...so thats  a lie...its POWER BASED...and all thsoe bad karmas cleanliness etc are AFTER THOUGHTS to justify it.


----------



## spnadmin (Feb 13, 2013)

A risk here is to migrate into anti-amritdhari mode. Knowing that I started the criticism, responsibility rests with me on this. The reason for criticism lies with those who do not think about the meaning of the restriction in SRM on leftovers, and behave unconsciously. The restriction itself is not "jooth." "Jooth" works more like a slogan, is the conversion of an idea into a phrase that directs behavior and absolves one of thought.

Gyani ji has a great way of putting all of this. An "after-thought" to justify a "power base" or consciousness of status, a way of making competitive status clear to all.


----------



## Kanwaljit.Singh (Feb 13, 2013)

Given that some special Brahmins leave their Jooth for 'low castes', maybe Guru said no one has to eat anyone's Jooth. And in many places, it is courtesy to give 'fresh' plates and cutlery to the guests. Yet it doesn't mean that you will not eat from other person's hand. Remember, Sikhi is not about how much filth is there in the outside world, but how much Naam is there in your heart.


----------



## TigerStyleZ (Feb 13, 2013)

Sheeeeesh! Waheguru , you confused me more - then I was before! I think I will follow my own Concept of 'Jooth'. My Concept is about:

-eating food from family,relatives etc.. is no problem, if their heart is good and their deeds. If I can trust them (and atleast they dont start poisioning my food).

- try to not leave any left overs- like Lucky ji said - my da as well told me that. ( I can still do exercise to compensate the more eaten food).

-totally reject left overs , if I am not going to starve.

-dont let my ego come over me , by proving  myself that I can eat only a food prepared in a certainly way.

- Try to not follow this Brahmaanvaad in any way

Mhh, I hope this is the right way... and if anybody has something to say  - feel free - to improve and extend my way .

- I am not better than any else being on this world, so if I make any mistake - it is up to the merciful creator to judge me.


----------



## Harry Haller (Feb 13, 2013)

> it is up to the merciful creator to judge me.



I think it is Creation that will judge you, rather than creator


----------



## Tejwant Singh (Feb 13, 2013)

1.	Jooth is to go and take bath after the shadow of the low caste is casted upon you.

2.	Jooth is not to let low caste people like Bhagat Ravi Das, Bhagat Namdev and many                        others not to enter the temples.

3.	Jooth is only to have one door to the worshipping place rather than four as at Darbar Sahib.

4.	Jooth is wearing the Janieu at the age of 5 only by the Brahmins' boys, thus guaranteeing themselves as so called the future scholars of Vedas.

5.	Jooth is to accept langar if prepared only by the Amritdharis. 

6.	Jooth is to have that langar prepared  in the sarbh loh or steel utensils only by the Amritdharis.

7.     Jooth is not to eat at a non- Amritdhari's home.

8.	Jooth is to have Rehansabahis like the Hindu Jagrans. The sign of Me-ism.

9.	Jooth is to divide Sikhi into several  dogmatic cults.

10.    Jooth is to erase pragmatism from Sikhi.

11.    Jooth is to become the parrots of Gurbani rather than its practitioners.

12.    Jooth is to worship/follow a book called Dasam Granth as one more Guru rather than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru.

13.	Jooth is not to have low caste people enter the langar halls or the kitchens at our  homes.

14.	Jooth is to degrade another human being after proclaiming to follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru, which boldly states:

       ” Sabh Gobind hein, Gobind bin nahin koi”.
       How dare we say some one is Jooth as we are all from The One?


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 14, 2013)

Tejwant Ji..very very well said as usual...thanks ji. There should be no doubts left afetr that..you have covered ALL the bases....


----------



## findingmyway (Feb 14, 2013)

spnadmin said:


> findingmyway ji
> 
> Good question! And I wonder too! The two ideas should never be irreconcilable, but people make it so. The concept of jooth - leftovers of a fallen Sikh, shoud not conflict with langar. No one is eating left-overs as far as I know. The food is prepared in front of our eyes. Not always by amritdharis.
> 
> ...



The reason I raised my question is that a lot of Sikhs consider jhooth not just leftovers but anything shared. One Sikh camp there was a woman telling us how she had trained her office coworkers to allow her to take food first as once they had touched it she could not share due to jhooth. A lot of people won't eat langar at all as it is not pure enough for them. Skipping langar is not an option as the Guru's would not meet with people unless langar had been partaken of first. Unless you sit down with everyone and share, how can there be humility? Langar is traditionally served first then Jaikara is said to indicate when you can begin eating. This is to ensure that there is enough food to go round, the theory being that if it falls short, the people at the beginning can share their food with those at the end before they have started eating. How does this fit into the concept of jhooth as popularly known today? I am not looking for an answer but these points are important to consider for anyone confused about jhooth!!


I love this so want to reiterate


Kanwaljit Singh said:


> Remember, Sikhi is not about how much  filth is there in the outside world, but how much Naam is there in your  heart.


----------



## spnadmin (Feb 14, 2013)

Reaching some closure with Gyani's note and Tejwant Singh's summing up so that the same topics are not reworked again and again. Another thread on langar would be a terrific idea! Let's get one going on the issues that stand in the way of understanding langar. Some of these over-lap as pointed out by findingmyway ji. Thanks.


----------

