# Sikhs Are Small In Numbers. But Are Sikhs Most Divided By Caste?



## badshah (Mar 1, 2011)

It just struck me that we are only the 8th largest religion in the World and yet we are the most divided. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups

We are divided so heavily into so many different groups that it is a true poison for Sikhs

Not only are you divided by caste (I know it does not exist) but it has been enforced so heavily by British rule that we have never got rid of it

You can find article on how the British divided people by martial ability and the abilty to fight seems to be the predominant factor in ranking Sikhs by caste

Farmers had stronger builds due to ploughing the land and others due to trading occupations had less rugged build and therefore not really suited to the army (fighting)

Having said that, there is no reason why non-Jatts cannot be conditioned to have athletic bodies and more so now everyone sits behind a computer so naturually regardless of caste you probably end up obesse if you do not exercise and most probably people do not farm in the West

If we look at Western society, they are not divided like Sikhs in terms of caste, turban wearing, non-turban wearing, trimmed etc etc

I just feel that caste is not relevant at all and divisions amongst us when we are in such small numbers is not good.

Also counting too much on past achievments of ancestors does not automatically give you right to express rank in a caste when most probably you do not reflect the same characteristics as your ancestors

Soon, in the UK we are having Gurudwara elections and no party has proposed to eradicate caste, remove caste based gurudwaras, consolidate the SIkhs and fly high!


----------



## kds1980 (Mar 1, 2011)

> It just struck me that we are only the 8th largest religion in the World and yet we are the most divided



What make's you think we are most divided? The other Religions too have severe divisions.After creation of Pakistan west pakistani's were severely fighting with east pakistani 's in which lakhs were killed .Hindu's too are severely divided.A North Indian Punjabi Hindu feel much more comfortable with sikh rather than a south Indian hindu.If you visit sites like rediff you will find Hindu's severely mocking each other from different parts of India


----------



## badshah (Mar 1, 2011)

kds1980 said:


> What make's you think we are most divided? The other Religions too have severe divisions.After creation of Pakistan west pakistani's were severely fighting with east pakistani 's in which lakhs were killed .Hindu's too are severely divided.A North Indian Punjabi Hindu feel much more comfortable with sikh rather than a south Indian hindu.If you visit sites like rediff you will find Hindu's severely mocking each other from different parts of India


 

You missedd the point..... we are not suppose to be divided, our religion says we are not suppose to follow caste, Hinduism says to follow caste - see the difference?

I think it was Chamars banned from going to Amritsar by Jatts - what kind of rubbish was that?

WHat good is caste today if majority of people in the West work like puppets under someone in a company anyway?

Most people these days are just puppets and then to call your self superiour or less superious is just load of rubbish

In the West we are on a level playing field but yet most have not been able to get rid of the caste labels

Caste just does not make sense to me and also just out of interest I am wondering why Hindus themselves do not stand up against caste in this modern World, or do they?


----------



## kds1980 (Mar 1, 2011)

> You missedd the point..... we are not suppose to be divided, our religion says we are not suppose to follow caste, Hinduism says to follow caste - see the difference?



Even Muslims have very strong concept of islamic brotherhood yet they have been discriminating Black muslims from ages.Theory and practice are very different .In theory Sikhs should treat all Sikhs as equal but with time they developed caste system


----------



## badshah (Mar 1, 2011)

kds1980 said:


> Even Muslims have very strong concept of islamic brotherhood yet they have been discriminating Black muslims from ages.Theory and practice are very different .In theory Sikhs should treat all Sikhs as equal but with time they developed caste system


 
What exactly does caste do in 2011 in a Western World?  I can perhaps see that if living in India you may still be subjected to any treatment but what benefit do we get out of caste today?

Is it simply not to mix?

I cannot see any genetic attributes one may have that they would want to preseve as in Hitlers ideology of blondes with blue eyes only

Is this not a type of racism?

Or is it a matter of numbers of each caste group, so if we reduce the 66% Jatt advantage to say 33% and increase other more influential groups then we got a level playing field?  Is it just a numbers game that leads to a pwer struggle?


----------



## kds1980 (Mar 1, 2011)

badshah said:


> What exactly does caste do in 2011 in a Western World?  I can perhaps see that if living in India you may still be subjected to any treatment but what benefit do we get out of caste today?
> 
> Is it simply not to mix?
> 
> ...




Well you are living in west so you can answer this question better.I just want to repeat what I said in one of my earlier post that many of Fundamentalist movements in South Asia were/are funded and promoted by people that were/are living west rather than those living South Asia.RSS/BJP gets lot of funds from NRI hindu's  Khalistani's got lot of support Sikhs outside India,LTTE got support much from Tamils living in west rather than tamils of India.Muslims too fund their movements.similarly sites like jattworld are operated from west.
90% of its members are living in west.So someone needs to study Why [people in west become more fundamental whether about of religion or caste.


----------



## badshah (Mar 1, 2011)

kds1980 said:


> Well you are living in west so you can answer this question better.I just want to repeat what I said in one of my earlier post that many of Fundamentalist movements in South Asia were/are funded and promoted by people that were/are living west rather than those living South Asia.RSS/BJP gets lot of funds from NRI hindu's Khalistani's got lot of support Sikhs outside India,LTTE got support much from Tamils living in west rather than tamils of India.Muslims too fund their movements.similarly sites like jattworld are operated from west.
> 90% of its members are living in west.So someone needs to study Why [people in west become more fundamental whether about of religion or caste.


 
Your response is flawed because it suggest the that an entire group is required to fund activities from the West to East.  For example to run Jattworld does not require the entire Jatt population to run that site, it can be run by one person

Similarly to fund fundemenalist activities does not take an entire group to do that either, it could be a couple of people siphoning off Gurudwara funds or some wealthy individuals funding

Also even if being funded from outside India, the main "doers" are within india so I am not sure what you are trying to say?


----------



## Ambarsaria (Mar 1, 2011)

badshah said:


> Your response is flawed because it suggest the that an entire group is required to fund activities from the West to East.  For example to run Jattworld does not require the entire Jatt population to run that site, it can be run by one person
> 
> Similarly to fund fundemenalist activities does not take an entire group to do that either, it could be a couple of people siphoning off Gurudwara funds or some wealthy individuals funding
> 
> Also even if being funded from outside India, the main "doers" are within india so I am not sure what you are trying to say?


badshah ji take the chip of your shoulder a bit.  Are you affected by so called division and based on your tones I assume it is negatively affected you.  I am sorry on behalf of the Sikh panth for your hurt.

What a mis-leading "Thread Title".  Sikhs don't have castes they have clans/creeds.  There is a huge difference.  Clans are respectful of their cultural heritage (language, social networking, common interests in life subjects) and lifestyles more than anything else.  They may get a superiority complex but that goes with the territory as soon as more than one person creates a group. No group will say they are mee too and will justify their qualities while showing deficiencies of others.

It is a basic need in Humans to associate.  The most favorable associations are where they don't have to make many assumptions and are not in a "la La Land" of unknowns.  Say you and I may belong to different Clans and our thoughts and dealings may be different as a result.  Hypothetically I may have a superiority complex (condascending write-ups focussing on commonalities) and you may have an inferiority complex (defensive write-ups focusing on differences) and _vice versa_.

Sikhism teaches us that "_each one is unique and same_" at the same time.  One cannot have a better guiding concept as a guiding light.

Sat Sri Akal.


----------



## kds1980 (Mar 1, 2011)

badshah said:


> Your response is flawed because it suggest the that an entire group is required to fund activities from the West to East.  For example to run Jattworld does not require the entire Jatt population to run that site, it can be run by one person
> 
> Similarly to fund fundemenalist activities does not take an entire group to do that either, it could be a couple of people siphoning off Gurudwara funds or some wealthy individuals funding
> 
> Also even if being funded from outside India, the main "doers" are within india so I am not sure what you are trying to say?



I am not saying an entire group is required to fund but still 1 or 2 indivisuals cannot fund an entire movement.I used to read posts on old jatt world and their was hardly any jatt from India on that site.Almost all were from west so site may be created an individual but those who were contribuiting were from west.

What i was trying to say was reply to your question that What caste is doing in west.May be in west people become insecure  about their identity whether it is Religious or caste based so that could be one of the reason they choose to become castist.It is just What I am assuming may me I am wrong.


----------



## badshah (Mar 1, 2011)

Ambarsaria said:


> badshah ji take the chip of your shoulder a bit. Are you affected by so called division and based on your tones I assume it is negatively affected you. I am sorry on behalf of the Sikh panth for your hurt.
> 
> What a mis-leading "Thread Title". Sikhs don't have castes they have clans/creeds. There is a huge difference. Clans are respectful of their cultural heritage (language, social networking, common interests in life subjects) and lifestyles more than anything else. They may get a superiority complex but that goes with the territory as soon as more than one person creates a group. No group will say they are mee too and will justify their qualities while showing deficiencies of others.
> 
> ...


 
"I am sorry on behalf of the Sikh panth for your hurt."

Singh, why are you apologizing for a Hindu created system?

I see where you have taken this and that is to clan/creed level, in other words Hindu stock vs non-hindu stock

"Sikhs don't have castes they have clans/creeds"

Ummm, if you say so......

"so called division"

What do you mean so called division, its really does exist and no I do not have a chip on my shoulder but as you may realisie that you may bring up your children and show them that all are equally in Sikhi but within Sikhi we are divided because of caste, you end up shooting yourself in the foot

Its almost better to not play by the rules and play dirty yourself


----------



## badshah (Mar 1, 2011)

kds1980 said:


> I am not saying an entire group is required to fund but still 1 or 2 indivisuals cannot fund an entire movement.I used to read posts on old jatt world and their was hardly any jatt from India on that site.Almost all were from west so site may be created an individual but those who were contribuiting were from west.
> 
> What i was trying to say was reply to your question that What caste is doing in west.May be in west people become insecure about their identity whether it is Religious or caste based so that could be one of the reason they choose to become castist.It is just What I am assuming may me I am wrong.


 
I think people cling onto caste in the West more so at the high caste level is because if you look at the general public we are not all rich, living lavishly etc etc and so caste gives you a false crown on your head

Caste is no more than a false good feeling, its a bit like a Chelsea supporter talking down on a Manchester City supporter but yet they are the same thing if they take off their supporting shirts


----------



## Ambarsaria (Mar 1, 2011)

badshah said:


> "I am sorry on behalf of the Sikh panth for your hurt."
> 
> Singh, why are you apologizing for a Hindu created system?
> 
> ...


Badshah ji I am trying to point out that Sikhs don't have a traditional Hindu garbage caste system transported into Sikhi.  They have practice of clans protection which is quite different.  I seen some dialog/videos of great discrimination and I do not condone those and I wish people will wisen up.  Again I generalized and these statements will fail a you-me test.

The clans are a massive institution around the world including the West.  In the West the commoners are ignored till they cross a line and giving people a false sense of equality.

Sat Sri Akal.


----------



## singhsumitslims (May 27, 2013)

It is said by our gurus, written in our guru granth not to follow caste or any discriminatory thing among us btu still we entitle ourself with surnames . Our guru gave us singh and kaur as title and we write surnames after singh or kaur. 
We hesitate to marry intercaste among ourself only.
Pls abolish these things, these are realy poison for us and for our faith.


----------

