# Cooking In The Danger Zone-INDIA-Dalits



## kaur-1 (Feb 22, 2007)

*Waheguru ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru ji Ki Fateh

I was watching a UK BBC program titled "Cooking in the Danger Zone" last night and was quite shocked and upset at what I saw.*

_Source: BBC NEWS | Programmes | This World | Cooking in the Danger Zone_

*Producer: Marc Perkins*
*Executive producer: Will Daws*  

INDIA









                                                                     Wednesday, 21 February, 2007 
   2030 GMT on BBC Four


In India Stefan visits some of the world's poorest and most oppressed people.  
More than 160 million people in the country are classed as Dalits and are considered "Untouchable".  

 Tainted by their birth they enter a caste system that condemns them to an inescapable cycle of poverty, illiteracy and oppression. 

 Nowhere is this discrimination more evident than with food.  
The "Untouchables" are not allowed to eat in the same places or even touch the same plates of other castes. 

 Stefan ventures to India's most lawless state, Bihar, to meet Dalits who work the land. He meets a particular sub-caste known as "Rat-Eaters" and joins them in the fields where they live up to their name: catching, roasting and eating rat. 

 But it is not only poverty and discrimination they face. Stefan tracks down an "upper caste army" whose aim is to keep the Dalits in their place, often violently attacking them. 

 Stefan then heads to India's "City of Dreams", Mumbai. Here he visits the city's most exclusive and expensive restaurant, to see at first hand India's rapidly expanding middle class with money to burn. 

 But he also sees another side to the city when he visits the largest slum in Asia, home to thousands of Dalits trying to find a way out of the caste discrimination. 

 He also meets Bale Rao, a Dalit who now works as a tiffinwala, delivering lunch-boxes on his bicycle to middle-class office workers around the city.




*Why isnt anyone in India listening to Guru Nanak ji's teaching regarding caste?* 



*I did a search on youtube and the first video I found was this !! Another shock!*

Video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxSdru59NVs
*Bant Singh is a revolutionary singer in Punjab, India, whose 2 years old daughter was raped by upper caste men. When he sought justice, they cut of his limbs. But he can still sing, and in this video letter he expresses no self-pity.*

Blog:
_Punjab Dalit Solidarity: February 2006_
_*"There are also several Dalit gurudwaras in Punjab, as the upper castes would not allow them to worship in others. As another character in Bhardwaj’s film says, “So many Gurus have come and gone but the Dalits are still where they were.”*_


*A Sikh is a Sikh! Why do people still go on about being upper caste and believe in the caste system. And who are this so called upper caste Sikhs. 
*

*There should not even be a term such as an "upper caste Sikh"!!      **Disgraceful and shameful !!!!!!!!*


_
Source:India: ‘Hidden Apartheid’ of Discrimination Against Dalits (Human Rights Watch, 13-2-2007)

_"*On December 27, 2006 Manmohan Singh became the first sitting Indian prime minister to **openly acknowledge the parallel between the practice of “untouchability” and the crime of apartheid. Singh described “untouchability” as a “blot on humanity” adding that “even after 60 years of constitutional and legal protection and state support, there is still social discrimination against Dalits in many parts of our country.”  *

*“Prime Minister Singh has rightly compared ‘untouchability’ to apartheid, and he should now turn his words into action to protect the rights of Dalits,” said Professor Smita Narula, faculty director of the Center for Human Rights and Global Justice (CHRGJ) at New York University School of Law, and co-author of the report. “The Indian government can no longer deny its collusion in maintaining a system of entrenched social and economic segregation.”  "*




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## simpy (Feb 22, 2007)

kaur-1 said:


> *Why isnt anyone in India listening to Guru Nanak ji's teaching regarding caste?*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
*Respected Kaur-1 Ji,*

*Unfortunately this is everywhere.*

*Somebody told me yesterday- Our Gurdwara Sahib has a program where they train children to be better Sikhs.*
*And a person who is in his 60/70s was performing seva over there. He is clean-shaven. A kid of age 5/6 came to him and started yelling at him literally- ‘I hate you, because you do not wear a turban. I hate everybody who does not wear a turban.’ *
*We found out that this is how he is being taught at his home. So he hates all those who do not wear a turban. This is his understanding of goodness.*

*There are several several parents who are doing this, think about how much hatred is in these parents and how these kids will be when they are grown.*

*And this is not the first time, we see this all the times in many many Gurdwaras. *

*Sometimes special treatment is given to who are rich, who donate a lot, and so on. *
*I heard in one Gurdwara Sahib this committee member did not let this old handicapped women sit in the Sangat, because she had to use a special chair to sit on(without even having an excuse of the height of the chair, because in that Gurdwara, Babaji’s Bir is placed at a very very high place, so that question can not be raised and to everybody’s surprise this Gurdwara has those special handicap entrances). *

*Equality, respecting others, has become a thing RARELY TO BE FOUND in Gurdwaras everywhere. *

*We need to encourage people to actually read Bani and understand it, Then live it.*

*This false understanding-Once we are AmritDhari-This is it, we got a license to Salvation, now we can do whatever-wrong or right, we are forgiven, we are accepted….*

*No understanding of Bani.*
*No living GuruJi’s Preachings.*

*And These pakhandi babas are Sone te Suhagaa.*
*Some of them even literally tell their followers Do not read Bani, it is all coded, you will not understand it, I will teach you the right way. My way is the only right way….*

*We need to wake up and wake others up as well.*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Feb 23, 2007)

GuruFateh

Its happening because .. we dont know what sikhism is..

What sikh is...
cn any body tell the meaning of sikh only..
what is sikh... what is the unique quality of sikh...
Answer should not be in accordance with ur mind... but should be according to gurubani

so please answer it.. and let us discover it again..

SVJKK SVJKF


kaur-1 said:


> *Waheguru ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru ji Ki Fateh
> 
> I was watching a UK BBC program titled "Cooking in the Danger Zone" last night and was quite shocked and upset at what I saw.*
> 
> ...


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## simpy (Feb 23, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 said:


> GuruFateh
> 
> Its happening because .. we dont know what sikhism is..
> 
> ...


 
*well my mind is not mine, it thinks and works Bani.*

*Sikh-sikh is a learner(a student totally faithful to the teacher-GURU JI)*
*a sincere student with proper conduct, listen to Guru's advice and Live it as well. one who learns from the Guru, belives it to be the TRUTH and spreads that truth among others by his/her own example. who uses his/her intellect as an instrument, who knows the perfect pleasure is in following his/her Guru's teachings.........(i can go on and on, i think i covered the basics)*


*you also asked for the reply to*-





sahilmakkar1983 said:


> Originally Posted by *sahilmakkar1983*
> 
> 
> _GuruFateh Sarabjeet ji,_
> ...


 
*Bani speaks for itself, unless you want me to repeat what you are saying...what is your question??????*



*humbly requesting you to convey your understanding of what a sikh is.........*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Feb 23, 2007)

Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *well my mind is not mine, it thinks and works Bani.*
> 
> *Sikh-sikh is a learner(a student totally faithful to the teacher-GURU JI)*
> *a sincere student with proper conduct, listen to Guru's advice and Live it as well. one who learns from the Guru, belives it to be the TRUTH and spreads that truth among others by his/her own example. who uses his/her intellect as an instrument, who knows the perfect pleasure is in following his/her Guru's teachings.........(i can go on and on, i think i covered the basics)*
> ...



*UR lines are in blue*
*well my mind is not mine, it thinks and works Bani.
NOT PERFECTLY TRUE
CAN u put some GURUBANI which describes .. that these thoughts are from gurubani only..
**Sikh-sikh is a learner(a student totally faithful to the teacher-GURU JI)*
*a sincere student with proper conduct, listen to Guru's advice and Live it as well. one who learns from the Guru, belives it to be the TRUTH and spreads that truth among 
Absolutely true

**by his/her own example. who uses his/her intellect as an instrument
Near to FALSE

False I have written... sorry because Japji sahib says
LAKH SYANPA.. PAAVE HOVE...IK NA CHALE NAAL


Waiting for ur reply...

*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Feb 23, 2007)

_*no need to speak from mouth... but we need to contemplate/meditate on the vibration that is already within us*_
_                                                    ਸਚੇ                                                     ਭਗਤ                                                     ਸੋਹਹਿ                                                     ਦਰਵਾਰੇ                                                     ਸਚੋ                                                     ਸਚੁ                                                     ਵਖਾਣੇ                                                     ਰਾਮ ॥ _
_सचे भगत सोहहि दरवारे सचो सचु वखाणे राम ॥ _
_sachay bhagat soheh darvaaray sacho sach vakhaanay raam. _
_The true devotees look beautiful in the Darbaar of the Lord's Court. They speak Truth, and only Truth. _

_                                                    ਘਟ                                                     ਅੰਤਰੇ                                                     ਸਾਚੀ                                                     ਬਾਣੀ                                                     ਸਾਚੋ                                                     ਆਪਿ                                                     ਪਛਾਣੇ                                                     ਰਾਮ ॥_
_घट अंतरे साची बाणी साचो आपि पछाणे राम ॥_
_ghat antray saachee banee saacho aap pachhaanay raam._
_Deep within the nucleus of their heart, is the True Word of the Lord's Bani. Through the Truth, they understand themselves._

_                                                    ਆਪੁ                                                     ਪਛਾਣਹਿ                                                     ਤਾ                                                     ਸਚੁ                                                     ਜਾਣਹਿ                                                     ਸਾਚੇ                                                     ਸੋਝੀ                                                     ਹੋਈ ॥ _
_आपु पछाणहि ता सचु जाणहि साचे सोझी होई ॥ _
_aap pachhaaneh taa sach jaaneh saachay sojhee ho-ee. _
_They understand themselves, and so know the True Lord, through their true intuition. _

_                                                    ਸਚਾ                                                     ਸਬਦੁ                                                     ਸਚੀ                                                     ਹੈ                                                     ਸੋਭਾ                                                     ਸਾਚੇ                                                     ਹੀ                                                     ਸੁਖੁ                                                     ਹੋਈ ॥ _
_सचा सबदु सची है सोभा साचे ही सुखु होई ॥ _
_sachaa sabad sachee hai sobhaa saachay hee sukh ho-ee. _
_True is the Shabad, and True is its Glory; peace comes only from Truth. _

_                                                    ਸਾਚਿ                                                     ਰਤੇ                                                     ਭਗਤ                                                     ਇਕ                                                     ਰੰਗੀ                                                     ਦੂਜਾ                                                     ਰੰਗੁ                                                     ਨ                                                     ਕੋਈ ॥ _
_साचि रते भगत इक रंगी दूजा रंगु न कोई ॥ _
_saach ratay bhagat ik rangee doojaa rang na ko-ee. _
_Imbued with Truth, the devotees love the One Lord; they do not love any other. _

_                                                    ਨਾਨਕ                                                     ਜਿਸ                                                     ਕਉ                                                     ਮਸਤਕਿ                                                     ਲਿਖਿਆ                                                     ਤਿਸੁ                                                     ਸਚੁ                                                     ਪਰਾਪਤਿ                                                     ਹੋਈ ॥੪॥੨॥੩॥ _
_नानक जिस कउ मसतकि लिखिआ तिसु सचु परापति होई ॥४॥२॥३॥ _
_naanak jis ka-o mastak likhi-aa tis sach paraapat ho-ee. ||4||2||3|| _
_O Nanak, he alone obtains the True Lord, who has such pre-ordained destiny written upon his forehead._

*
YES MY DEAR FREND Please repeat the meaning of lines above
what u understand from it..
where is Bani...*
_*SVJKK SVJKF*_


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## simpy (Feb 23, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 said:


> *UR lines are in blue*
> * who uses his/her intellect as an instrument*
> *Near to FALSE*
> 
> ...


*first of all: you make your own opinions, no problems at all.....*




*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Nanak Sache Paatshah da hukam hai-*

*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib de Panna no. 350--*

*vwjw miq pKwvju Bwa]u*
*Make your intellect your instrument, and love your tambourine*

*so should a sikh, Guru Ji's student, follow Guru Ji or not??????????*
*does it matter what others think???????*






*Knowing the truth happens with Guru's grace only and to earn that grace you have to become Sachayra from within---*

*scu qw pru jwxIAY jw irdY scw hoie ]*
*kUV kI mlu auqrY qnu kry hCw Doie ]*
*scu qw pru jwxIAY jw sic Dry ipAwru ]*
*nwau suix mnu rhsIAY qw pwey moK duAwru ]*
*scu qw pru jwxIAY jw jugiq jwxY jIau ]*
*Driq kwieAw swiD kY ivic dyie krqw bIau ]*
*scu qw pru jwxIAY jw isK scI lyie ]*
*dieAw jwxY jIA kI ikCu puMnu dwnu kryie ]*
*scu qW pru jwxIAY jw Awqm qIriQ kry invwsu ]*
*siqgurU no puiC kY bih rhY kry invwsu ]*
*scu sBnw hoie dwrU pwp kFY Doie ]*
*nwnku vKwxY bynqI ijn scu plY hoie ]2]*




*forgive me please*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Feb 23, 2007)

Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *first of all: you make your own opinions, no problems at all.....*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First of all sorry sister, i think i hurt u..
THESE ARE NOT MY OPINIONS.. i will put some quotes from gurbani only..

ya Knowledge of truth happens only with . guru grace. 
But what is truth..
Gurubani says truth is GOD only..
do we know god..
have we seen him..
then where is knowledge..
gurubani says God cn be seen..
have we seen it..
Gurubani is clearly saying we need a master to see the GOD..
and guru is living..
Please dont mind but GURU we need living..
but guru it talks about living


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## simpy (Feb 23, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 said:


> First of all sorry sister, i think i hurt u..
> THESE ARE NOT MY OPINIONS.. i will put some quotes from gurbani only..
> 
> ya Knowledge of truth happens only with . guru grace.
> ...


 

*Guru is the one who teaches us, here we are talking about the Spiritual Master, so can be a Scripture/living Master/Higher Self Within/The Universe..........*

*Everybody has to become Sachayra himself or herself, by following the preaching.*

*How many people have this capability to judge if the fellow posing to be the living Guru is true or fake?????*

*To tackle this confusion, Sikh Guru Sahiban have done this upkaar upon the sikhs, that they have all the teachings from all different Bhagats and Gurus compiled together, so that no aspect, no stage of bhagati is left unanswered. say-NO STONE LEFT UNTURNED... *

*This notion that a living Guru is the only way out is not true for the sikhs. Our Guru is Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. and Guru Ji answers all the questions of the bhagats at all the levels. First, one must try it, then say, if it works or not. Debating on something without practically living the facts does not always work. You may fool those who do not want to believe, learn and follow their own Guru Ji, but not all. *

*and not only the sikhs even there are other people from many different religious backgrounds follow Guru Ji's teachings and attain Spiritual Elevations. *

*You need a living Guru, does not mean every body else has to have a living Guru.*

*Nothing happens with merely having a living Guru around- you have to live the truth Guru is teaching.*

*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Ram Das Ji de Bachan*
*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib de pann no. 669:*

*syvk isK pUjx siB Awvih siB gwvih hir hir aUqm bwnI ]
gwivAw suixAw iqn kw hir Qwie pwvY ijn siqgur kI AwigAw siq siq kir mwnI ]

We humans need a GURU- NOT NECESSARILY A LIVING Human as GURU.



*



*forgive me please*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Feb 23, 2007)

Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Guru is the one who teaches us, here we are talking about the Spiritual Master, so can be a Scripture/living Master/Higher Self Within/The Universe..........*
> 
> *Everybody has to become Sachayra himself or herself, by following the preaching.*
> 
> ...



OK Dear because .. till now I have not put any reference from Gurubani..
but now i will start putting some good reference from gurubani..
in the mean time.. u put where its written in Gurubani that ..we dont need Living master


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Feb 23, 2007)

*How many people have this capability to judge if the fellow posing to be the living Guru is true or fake?????

GURUBANI ANSWERS THESE ALSO..

**To tackle this confusion, Sikh Guru Sahiban have done this upkaar upon the sikhs, that they have all the teachings from all different Bhagats and Gurus compiled together, so that no aspect, no stage of bhagati is left unanswered. say-NO STONE LEFT UNTURNED... *

*YES BIG UPKAAR ... THAT WE CANT FORGET.. BUT WHAT DOES TEACHING SAYS OF DIFFERENT BHAGATS...

**This notion that a living Guru is the only way out is not true for the sikhs. Our Guru is Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. and Guru Ji answers all the questions of the bhagats at all the levels

me ALSO A SIKH.. Yes it answers all the questions but at all levels it says .. NO use to read the scriputes.. 
MIL SADH SANGAT BHAJ KEVAL NAAM

**Debating on something without practically living the facts does not always work. You may fool those who do not want to believe, learn and follow their own Guru Ji, but not all. 

PRACTICAL THING IS ENTERING INTO HUMAN BODY LAB.. AND SEEING THE GOD with GURU's GRACE..
READING IS THEORY NOT PRACTICAL THING
M NOT TRYING TO FOOLANYONE BUT TELLING U WHAT IS WRITTEN IN SGGS
**
not only the sikhs even there are other people from many different religious backgrounds follow Guru Ji's teachings and attain Spiritual Elevations. *
*
YES SGGS IS SUCH A GREAT SCRIPTURE THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD FOLLOW IT.. FOR SPIRITUAL ELEVATIONS .. BUT WHAT IS SPIRITUAL ELEVATION..
IS THERE ANYTHING ABOVE THAN TO SEE GOD...
IS SPIRITUAL ELEVATION POSSIBLE WITHOUT SEEING THE SPIRIT(GOD)

**Nothing happens with merely having a living Guru around- you have to live the truth Guru is teaching.*
*
**BUT MY DEAR FREND .. GURUS TEACHING CAN NEVER BE AGAINST A LIVING GURU.. 
IF SO.. WHY WE HAD TEN GURUS  NOT ONLY ONE..(GURUNANAK DEVJI)
*


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## Lionchild (Feb 23, 2007)

Well its a shame a handicapped women cant even sit on a chair in the gurdwara, who the F is making up that rule?

The one thing i noticed about the sikh community is that most are so worried about the outward appearance of sikhi, that they have forgoten the core principles and philosophy of sikhi. 

Who cares if someone wears a dastar or not, who cares if people use chairs in temples, or use english material to teach others. In our quest to live the glory days of sikhi, we have alienated many sikhs in the process, and the outside world cant relate to us. If someone wants to learn sikhi in a different way, let them do that, its not you, me or anyone elses job to keep learners of the god under our thumbs.

We go around the world, expecting other communites and people to respect us, yet we do not spread the gurus word, or teach awarness about sikhi. Then we wonder why we are labeled as muslims or terrorists, of course that will happen if we just retreat to our own communities and enclaves.

To be honest, its sickening, and disgusting to be in the presence of this community. Which is why i have recently looked beyond sikhi for community and religious support.


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## simpy (Feb 23, 2007)

*Respected Sahil Makkar Ji,*

*thankyou endlessly.*

*could not find Gurbani to support your thoughts!!!!!*



			
				sahilmakkar said:
			
		

> *BUT WHAT DOES TEACHING SAYS OF DIFFERENT BHAGATS...*


 
*repeating myself again-to leave no stone unturned. Also to pay respects to all the religions and beliefs. as *
*GOD IS ALL & ALL IS GOD*


*and they have the Realization of the Truth, their Bani is in Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is for a good reason, not to spread hatred.*


*


			
				sahilmakkar said:
			
		


			me ALSO A SIKH.. Yes it answers all the questions but at all levels it says .. NO use to read the scriputes..
		
Click to expand...

* 
*Very good, call yourself a sikh and denouncing your own Guru Ji.*

*where Guru Ji respects all the Scriptures....*


*poQI purwx kmweIAY ] Bau vtI iequ qin pweIAY ]*
*Let the reading of your prayer book be the oil, and let the Fear of God be the wick for the lamp of this body.*

*i humbly suggest(as you claim to be a sikh) read Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji all the way from the beginning to the end YOURSELF-then decide. You claim to be a Sikh- cannot hurt, or does it!!!!!*

*if your Guru is the true Guru, you will find, Bani says all what he/she is saying.*

*bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ]*
*guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry ]*

*Any True Spiritual teacher says the same Bani, It is written throughout the Brehmand-zrRw zrRw ies dw gvwh hY, JuTlwxI nwmumikn hY[ Cultures and languages cannot change the real essence of it.*




			
				sahilmakkar said:
			
		

> *YES SGGS IS SUCH A GREAT SCRIPTURE THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD FOLLOW IT.. FOR SPIRITUAL ELEVATIONS .. BUT WHAT IS SPIRITUAL ELEVATION..*
> *IS THERE ANYTHING ABOVE THAN TO SEE GOD...*
> *IS SPIRITUAL ELEVATION POSSIBLE WITHOUT SEEING THE SPIRIT(GOD)*


 
*So you are suggesting you are a sikh and you have a living Guru and you are seeing God in/through your so called living Guru. *

*Congratulations to have a 12Th Guru, who is teaching you to not read your 11th Guru. Please forgive my language.*

*How come you are not able to see that God in Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. As Guru Ji, you, me all is a part of it........Because a true Guru will not teach the followers to tell the rest of the world that: hey your Guru is not the Guru, mine is; may be in your world the living Gurus spread this kind of hatred??????????*
*Gurus are to bring a person to a state of mind-*
*qRY gux mwieAw moih ivAwpy qurIAw guxu hY gurmuiK lhIAw ]*

*eyk idRsit sB sm kir jwxY ndrI AwvY sBu bRhmu psreIAw ]*​ 

*Our Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji tells us to respect all. So we do. All our Guru Sahibaan has done it.*
*As i said before- you need a living Guru, very good- fine, follow that Guru, but stop convincing others that their Guru is not the right one and that they need to have a living Guru. You will not be successful to convert all.* *A True Guru does not need advertisement- Guru shines through the chelas.*


*repeating myself again-*
*Guru is the one who teaches us, here we are talking about the Spiritual Master, so can be a Scripture/living Master/Higher Self Within/The Universe..........*

*And being in Sikh Religion- our Guru is Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.*



*isimRiq byd purwx pukwrin poQIAw ]*
*The Simritees, the Vedas, the Puraanas and the other holy scriptures proclaim*

*nwm ibnw siB kUVu gwl@I hoCIAw ]1]*
*that without the Naam, everything is false and worthless. *

*


			
				sahilmakkar said:
			
		


			BUT MY DEAR FREND .. GURUS TEACHING CAN NEVER BE AGAINST A LIVING GURU..
		
Click to expand...

**Yes, of course, my dear, and a True Guru's teachings cannot be against a Scripture either. No true Guru(from any religious back ground) can say anything like this-do not read Guru Granth Sahib or any other Scriptures or Spiritual Books.......................*



*You know why: BECAUSE A TRUE GURU IS IN THOSE REALMS WHERE HE/SHE KNOWS EVERYTHING, AND FOR THIS INDIVIDUAL(LIVING GURU) ALL ARE EQUAL; THIS PERSON BRINGS PEOPLE TOGETHER, DOES NOT DIVIDE THEM ON THE NAME OF THE RELEGION, GURU, CAST, STATUS and all that. AND MOST OF ALL IS RESPECTFUL TOWARDS OTHER RELIGIONS AND FAITHS.*






*forgive me please.*


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## Hai_Bhi_Sach (Feb 25, 2007)

Surinder kaur ji,

LOL, I note you enjoy arguing dont you?
The topic here was *



Cooking in the Danger Zone-INDIA-Dalits

Click to expand...

* 
*Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh*


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## simpy (Feb 26, 2007)

Hai_Bhi_Sach said:


> Surinder kaur ji,
> 
> LOL, I note you enjoy arguing dont you?
> The topic here was
> ...


 

*Respected Hai_Bhi_Sach Ji, *

*thanks a lot endlessly.*

*this is not a matter of enjoyment. Somebody is telling all of us- supposedly the Sikh Community-*


			
				SahilMakkar said:
			
		

> *NO use to read the scriputes.. *


 
*and who responds to what is written in Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji-*


			
				SahilMakkar said:
			
		

> *Near to FALSE*






*And our Guru Ji is a "Scripture". *

*SO YOU ARE SUGGESTING THAT ALL OF US SHOULD STAY QUITE AND LET OTHERS MAKE FUN OF OUR CORE BELIEFS. **LET OTHERS DISRESPECT DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI ON THE "SIKH PHILOSOPHY NETWORK" OR OTHERWISE. VERY NICE OF YOU. THANKS A LOT ON YOUR COMMENTS. *



*forgive me please, if it hurts you. Truth hurts people badly only when they themselves are against it, then they use their cqurweIAW to defend themselves by all means. *




*i am humbly doing seva, and will keep doing it. as i said before some(true gursikhs) like it, some(unfaithful to Guru Ji) do not, does it matter-NO.*



*mY mUrK kI giq kIjY myry rwm ]*
*gur siqgur syvw hir lwie hm kwm ]*





*forgive me please again*
*and thanks endlessly. *


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## kaur-1 (Feb 26, 2007)

Hai_Bhi_Sach said:


> Surinder kaur ji,
> 
> LOL, I note you enjoy arguing dont you?
> The topic here was
> ...



Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I totally disagree with your remark. Bhanji arguing!-What a nonsense remark to make!! For goodness sake! 

Anyways, saying that there "is no need to read scriptures" and also that we need a "living" Guru is utter nonsence in my opinon.! 

Our living Guru is Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and by that I mean the Guru ki Bani within the divine Granth.

From my understanding, If we are to live in Akal Purakhs(GOD) Hukam then its Akal Purakhs Hukum to have full and complete faith in Guru Ki Bani. Akal Purakhs "divine command" is reading, reciting and singing from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji whilst making an effort to also "understand" what we are reading, reciting and singing and therefore making a further effort to live it.

By saying that we dont need to read "scriptures" ie gurbani, is going against Akal Purakhs Hukam(in this meaning Divine Order/Instructions).


----------



## Hai_Bhi_Sach (Feb 26, 2007)

Kaur-1 ji and Surinder Kaur ji,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh



> I totally disagree with your remark. Bhanji arguing!-What a nonsense remark to make!! For goodness sake!
> 
> Anyways, saying that there "is no need to read scriptures" and also that we need a "living" Guru is utter nonsence in my opinon.!
> 
> ...


 
I have not said your quoted words. Please do not make judgements on me.
EkOnkar = Mool Mantra = Japji Sahib = Guru Granth Sahib. If you are not satisfied with the first stage or fully understand then you go to the next and next. It is subject to your own intelligence.

Guru Granth Sahib is our Guru, our Guide and we should read it and follow it. Although I agree with Surinder Kaur ji in most of her text but at times I find she winds herself and the other person that it becomes a fight of knowledge. Who knows best?. I can almost feel your blood boiling in your conversation. I can be wrong it is only a feel. Your are very compassionate about Sikhism and I respect that but do not wind yourself. Please do not take this is as an attack on you personality. Over the span of nearly 200 years our gurus could not convince everyone, how can we? Everyones journey is different and understanding will come to them in their own time.

Kaur ji, you appear to have a misconception of "Living" Guru as you have put it. A Guru is a teacher, someones whose gives you knowledge. It could be Surinder Kaur ji or anyone else for that matter. It is up to you how you see her. Out of respect you may even bow to her. If you do not ask her then you are resorting to someones translations. Those translations are again done by a "living" person. Do not take the "Living" Guru too serious for that matter. 

We very quickly jump the gun in the heat of the moment andd start blasating interpretations.

We are all striving for the same goal. Guru Granth Sahib ji is our Guru and as sikhs we will seek guidance from it. Comments like the ones above shows that there is a problem trying to assimilate our Gurus teaching. Do not become "Kattard Sikh"

I did not mean to offend anyone. We all become one track minded at times and do not sit back and review. I think we should do that because we could inadvertently be mis-guiding others at the same time. I love my Gurus just as much as anyone else. We are all sikhs. We are at different stages of development and have a lot to share. So let us do that more constructively.

My apollogies for hurting anyones feelings.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh.


----------



## kaur-1 (Feb 26, 2007)

Hai_Bhi_Sach said:


> Kaur-1 ji and Surinder Kaur ji,
> 
> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
> 
> ...



 Dear Hai_Bhi_Sach,

I think the problem is the use of the term "GURU" in relation to SIKHI.

The word GURU and the use of the word Guru in Sikhi is not exactly the same as in other religions. I think thats where the problem lies.

We have to first define what excatly the word GURU is in relation to Sikhi. 

I would NOT call anyone in this forum my GURU!. A gursikh as in Guru Ka Sikh, sadh sangat, Bhenji, Veerji, Praji BUT NOT GURU JI. 

Well unless of course you want to be called a Guru  (joke)

p/s: No offense but its your replies that usually cause one frustration and EGO literally jumps out most of them .I for one admit my temper but have been in check of it due to Guru Ki Bani (recently and hopefully longer).

But anyways,on a serious note, SPN is for discussion not to nit pick.So please all discuss and learn our wonderful Gurbani.


----------



## lovely_silky (Feb 26, 2007)

Hai_Bhi_Sach said:


> Kaur-1 ji and Surinder Kaur ji,
> 
> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
> 
> ...


 
*Hai_bhi_Sach ji, *

*your thinking is total distructive:*

*in one post you support to follow astrology you even asked someone for their- date of birth and all that, somewhere you are talking about Simran, somewhere you do not belive in Remembring God, now in this post it is so obvious that you are defending someone who is openly disrespecting SGGS Ji, and you are against those who are defending their faith.*

*Wah Ji Wah tuhada jawab nahi*


----------



## simpy (Feb 26, 2007)

Hai_Bhi_Sach said:


> Kaur-1 ji and Surinder Kaur ji,
> 
> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
> 
> ...


 

*Respected Hai_Bhi_Sach Ji,*


*Endlessly thanks once again.*

*It is very nice of you.*


*Is it your blood boiling you feel or mine????????*

*As you have to find more bullets to fire through your gun…………AND MOST INTERESTING THING IS THAT WITH EACH ONE OF YOUR FIRES MORE AND MORE GURPARSAAD IS BEING POURED. *


*Endlessly thanks again.*

*Forgive me please.*


----------



## lovely_silky (Feb 26, 2007)

kaur-1 said:


> I would NOT call anyone in this forum my GURU!. A gursikh as in Guru Ka Sikh, sadh sangat, Bhenji, Veerji, Praji BUT NOT GURU JI.
> 
> Well unless of course you want to be called a Guru  (joke)
> 
> ...


 

*kaur-1 ji, *

*i totally agree with you. *

*Sadh Sangat Ji, bhul chuk maaf*

*Surinder bhen ji always guide us to the right direction. even i noticed in one post while conversing with hai-bhi-such she litrally directed him towards SGGS Ji. I respect her becuase every word she says is always gurbani de anukool. like Arvind Bhaji says-jevyn rab aap bol reha. *

*it was very hard for anybody  to discuss what she was able to under posts-Guru Nanak God, this one and Baba question. She pointed out the real truth. We all are learning a lot from all that. And again-everything she talks about is GurBani.*

*thanks a lot Surinder bhenji.*


----------



## sahilmakkar1983 (Feb 27, 2007)

Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Respected Sahil Makkar Ji,*
> 
> *thankyou endlessly.*
> 
> ...


 

GuruFateh,
dear sister surinder

Thanks for such a kind reply from u..
I understand ur inquistive ness... quotes will keep following from DHAN DHAN SHRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB.. THIS DHAN DHAN  that i prefixed though are not enough to praise our greatest scripture.. even lakhs of DHAN are less to praise SHRI GRANTH SAHIB...

*BHAI PRAPAT MANUKH DEHURIA, GOBIND MILAN KI EHO TERI BARIYA..*
*AVAR KAAJ TERE KITE NA KAAJ, MIL SADH SANGAT BHAJ KEVAL NAAM.*

Means: this human body that we have got(after so many carnations.. kuta billi etc.), is the boat(Bariya) to meet the GOD(Gobind).
the things that u r doing in this world.. are not the things u should do.. and it will take u nowhere.. so have a company(sangat) of saint(Sadh: who is himself merged in GOD is called sadh).. and chant only NAME.


we will soon discuss some lines from SHRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB.. which will take our discussion to sm better cause..

but i will encourage u.. if u cn suggest me a time.. after 4th of march..
that u cn come on chat with me..
because i want to discuss with u.... on yahoo chat

my id is gursikh1983@yahoo.com
add me n tell me time also
at what time we cn meet

SHRI VAHE GURU JI KA KHALSA .. SHRI VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH


----------



## simpy (Feb 27, 2007)

*Respected Sahil Makkar Ji,*

*thanks endlessly.*


*i am fully aware of the meaning Sangat and Saadh. *


*Satgur prasaad*

*Bani Guru Guru Hai Bani Vich Bani Amrit Sare. *

*So contemplating/reading/reciting on Bani written by Dhan Dhan Guru Sahibaan Ji or Dhan Dhan Other Bhagats from Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji brings a sadhak in their Dhan Dhan Company. *

*Sangat is not limited to have sangat/company in physical sense alone. True Gursikhs are fully and truely aware of this, dear and respected Sahil Ji.*





*forgive me please; i have no inclinations to have any chat with you. *

*anyways thanks for the consideration. *







*Respected Sadh Sangat Ji*






*Satgur prasaad*
*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Arjun Dev Ji De Bachan from Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji page-711*


*tofI mhlw 5 ]*
*hir ibsrq sdw KuAwrI ]*
*qw kau DoKw khw ibAwpY jw kau Et quhwrI ] rhwau ]*
*ibnu ismrn jo jIvnu blnw srp jYsy ArjwrI ]*
*nv KMfn ko rwju kmwvY AMiq clYgo hwrI ]1]*
*gux inDwn gux iqn hI gwey jw kau ikrpw DwrI ]*
*so suKIAw DMnu ausu jnmw nwnk iqsu bilhwrI ]*









*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Nanak Dev Ji De Bachan in Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib ji page:903*

*Ktu mtu dyhI mnu bYrwgI ]*
*suriq sbdu Duin AMqir jwgI ]*
*vwjY Anhdu myrw mnu lIxw ]*
*gur bcnI sic nwim pqIxw ]1]*
*pRwxI rwm Bgiq suKu pweIAY ]*
*gurmuiK hir hir mITw lwgY hir hir nwim smweIAY ]1] rhwau ]*
*mwieAw mohu ibvrij smwey ]*
*siqguru BytY myil imlwey ]*
*nwmu rqnu inrmolku hIrw ]*
*iqqu rwqw myrw mnu DIrw ]2]*
*haumY mmqw rogu n lwgY ]*
*rwm Bgiq jm kw Bau BwgY ]*
*jmu jMdwru n lwgY moih ]*
*inrml nwmu irdY hir soih ]3]*
*sbdu bIcwir Bey inrMkwrI ]*
*gurmiq jwgy durmiq prhwrI ]*
*Anidnu jwig rhy ilv lweI ]*
*jIvn mukiq giq AMqir pweI ]4]*
*Ailpq guPw mih rhih inrwry ]*
*qskr pMc sbid sMGwry ]*
*pr Gr jwie n mnu folwey ]*
*shj inrMqir rhau smwey ]5]*
*gurmuiK jwig rhy AauDUqw ]*
*sd bYrwgI qqu proqw ]*
*jgu sUqw mir AwvY jwie ]*
*ibnu gur sbd n soJI pwie ]6]*
*Anhd sbdu vjY idnu rwqI ]*
*Aivgq kI giq gurmuiK jwqI ]*
*qau jwnI jw sbid pCwnI ]*
*eyko riv rihAw inrbwnI ]7]*
*suMn smwiD shij mnu rwqw ]*
*qij hau loBw eyko jwqw ]*
*gur cyly Apnw mnu mwinAw ]*
*nwnk dUjw myit smwinAw ]8]3]*



*English translations:*
*Above the six chakras of the body dwells the detached mind. Awareness of the vibration of the Word of the Shabad has been awakened deep within. The unstruck melody of the sound current resonates and resounds within; my mind is attuned to it.*
*Through the Guru's Teachings, my faith is confirmed in the True Name. O mortal, through devotion to the Lord, peace is obtained. The Lord, Har, Har, seems sweet to the Gurmukh, who merges in the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. Eradicating attachment to Maya, one merges into the Lord. Meeting with the True Guru, we unite in His Union. The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is a priceless jewel, a diamond.*
*Attuned to it, the mind is comforted and encouraged. The diseases of egotism and possessiveness do not afflict one who worships the Lord. Fear of the Messenger of Death runs away. The Messenger of Death, the enemy of the soul, does not touch me at all. The Immaculate Name of the Lord illuminates my heart. Contemplating the Shabad, we become Nirankaari(formless) - we come to belong to the Formless Lord God. Awakening to the Guru's Teachings, evil-mindedness is taken away. Remaining awake and aware night and day, lovingly focused on the Lord, one becomes Jivan Mukta - liberated while yet alive. He finds this state deep within himself. In the secluded cave, I remain unattached. With the Word of the Shabad, I have killed the five thieves. My mind does not waver or go to the home of any other. **I remain intuitively absorbed deep within. As Gurmukh, I remain awake and aware, unattached. Forever detached, I am woven into the essence of reality. The world is asleep; it dies, and comes and goes in reincarnation. Without the Word of the Guru's Shabad, it does not understand. The unstruck sound current of the Shabad vibrates day and night. The Gurmukh knows the state of the eternal, unchanging Lord God. Then someone realizes the Shabad, then he truly knows. The One Lord is permeating and pervading everywhere in Nirvaanaa. My mind is intuitively absorbed in the state of deepest Samaadhi; renouncing egotism and greed, I have come to know the One Lord. When the disciple's mind accepts the Guru, O Nanak, duality is eradicated, and he merges in the Lord. *






*forgive me please*


----------



## Hai_Bhi_Sach (Feb 27, 2007)

Respected Kaur ji and Surinder Kaur Cheema ji,





> I would NOT call anyone in this forum my GURU! . A gursikh as in Guru Ka Sikh, sadh sangat, Bhenji, Veerji, Praji BUT NOT GURU JI.


 
That is your outlook. You limitation. You small well. But there is an Ocean out there. 




> Well unless of course you want to be called a Guru (joke)


 
I have no intention of being called a Guru. I have much stronger bond with my Gurus. And this is not a joke either. This is not a show off but an inspiration to those who doubt that it is impossible for them or anyone else.




> p/s: No offense but its your replies that usually cause one frustration and EGO literally jumps out most of them .I for one admit my temper but have been in check of it due to Guru Ki Bani (recently and hopefully longer ).


 
"EGO" no matter how much you try to hide it, you can not bury ego under knowledge, it eventually resurfaces. Surinder Kaurs ego and anger showed up very quickly time and again but it took some time for you. Your “ANGER” element was to follow. This is precisely the point i was trying to prove. You cannot bury them they will not go away no matter how hard you try. Your patience will wear out. You cannot win them by fighting them. Recognize where these energies are emanating from. Learn to control them just as we now control electricity. Your abuse and sarcasm is “sir mathey”. It has no effect on me. The main issue was realization. If you have felt it then good if not then………. Draw your own conclusion, you know where you stand. You can cheat the world but not yourself. Naam will only work if your body is also in tune. Guru ji intended to make us a Sant and Sapahi. Sant – though realization and Sapahi because you need to be fit for the task. Just as a musical instrument can look very pretty out of the box but it is useless without it being tuned. Tune both mind and body if you want to experience the divine bliss. Like a tuned instrument when played causes resonance in others just lying idle similarly Naam, Simran done by an out of tune body is unlikely to affect others. This is what Guru ji means when they say your simran will help your family and others around you. It is your Aura that is doing the work. - Then you will be worthy of the title. The difference between an ordinary death and that of a Sadhu is that the ordinary is unaware of what is happening and clings to the body trying to preserve it. The Sadhu lives though the process awake and alert and plans his own destiny. But salvation is still through Gurus Blessing.

Now going back to "Jo Brehmande soe Pinde"

In this external world, which is full of finite things, it is impossible to see and find the Infinite. The Infinite must be sought in that alone which is infinite, and the only thing infinite about us is that which is within us, our own soul. Neither the body, nor the mind, nor even our thoughts, nor the world we see around us, is infinite.

Where God is, there is no other. Where the world is, there is no God. These two will never unite. Like light and darkness. The mistake is that we cling to the body when it is the spirit that is really immortal.

After every happiness comes misery; they may be far apart or near. The more advanced the soul, the more quickly does one follow the other. _What we want is neither happiness nor misery._ Both make us forget our true nature; both are chains—one iron, one gold; behind both is the Atman, who knows neither happiness nor misery. These are _states,_ and states must ever change; but the nature of the Atman is bliss, peace, unchanging. We have not to get it, we have it; only wash away the dross and see it.

Meditate on self. Know yourself first then God shall appear but then you will have to disappear. Because there in only ONE.




> But anyways,on a serious note, SPN is for discussion not to nit pick.So please all discuss and learn our wonderful Gurbani.


 
My sincere appologies for nit picking as you put it. That was done on purpose. Knowledge will never take you to your goal. Denounce the world if you want to know the TRUTH. Bani is crying out for that. The so called Sikhs do not want to read Salokhs of Mehla 9. Because Guru ji is pulling the rug from under the feet. A wise person reads the first chapter and then the last. He can easily figure out what is in the middle. Be that.

Gurbani is wonderfull indeed but it is not good having it on an ornamental. This is precisely what you people are doing. Do not use it as a shroud. Live it, open you eyes, feel it. You can do all this reading inside too if that is what you want. What you see outside is indeed inside. The external is a projection of the internal.

Guru pyareo, the sad fact is that It is not long when Gurus Angs will be shared between different communities because we have no more tollerence for each other. We are ourselves responsible for the splits. I urge you to work together. Do not just cut off a sect because they have pronounced the word wrongly. Meet the Baba and settle the dispute. Bring them back.

Ponder on the above if you may. If you understand that then my best wishes are with you. If not then the age of Kalyug is 432000 years and we have only lived 5007 approx to-date. Things will only get worse. Plenty of time for you. You can stay clinging to your body and live through the hell. (Vishta ka keeda Vishta mein reha samai) Guru jis words- not mine.

I thank SPN for putting up with me. 

My most humble apologies to all that may have been be-littled by my comments and approach. You are all DHAN DHAN. 

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.


----------



## kaur-1 (Feb 27, 2007)

Hai_Bhi_Sach said:


> My sincere appologies for nit picking as you put it. That was done on purpose. Knowledge will never take you to your goal. Denounce the world if you want to know the TRUTH. Bani is crying out for that. T*he so called Sikhs do not want to read Salokhs of Mehla 9. Because Guru ji is pulling the rug from under the feet. A wise person reads the first chapter and then the last. He can easily figure out what is in the middle. Be that.*
> 
> Gurbani is wonderfull indeed but it is not good having it on an ornamental. This is precisely what you people are doing. Do not use it as a shroud. Live it, open you eyes, feel it. You can do all this reading inside too if that is what you want. What you see outside is indeed inside. The external is a projection of the internal.
> 
> ...



 p/s: Actually Bhenji Surinder Kaur is the calm one. You should read my post's when i first joined. My word I had nasty temper!!!  :}{}{}: and I still do but in a lesser degree.


As regards to your above post, *Oh my Word, I am amazed!!.

Sect- So you do belong to a sect or a cult - please tell which one. I am very curious now.

*And this Baba, who is he? I wanna know. Did he or Guru Amar das ji who you previously mentioned you have direct guidance from, told you not to read the MIDDLE of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and only the first and last angs?

Another p/s: Whats the twelve gifts you mentioned previously- not sure which post it was in.?

Shouldnt a Sikh have all the 10 Sahibaans direct contact through Sri Guru granth Sahib ji the 11th Nanak? ONE JYOT.

And whats wrong with Salokhs of Mehla 9, I have read it, even posted it in Gurmat vichaar section because I have also posted a MP3 shabad link for it in the kirtan player. Its wonderfull . The bani feels like a last warning message/instruction before the end of SGGSJ.
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/14457-gurbani-kirtan-23-salok-mahala-9-a.html

*All *of Guru Ki Bani should be read (or at least attempted at) unless if one thinks that they are already Braham Gianni.!!!


----------



## lovely_silky (Feb 27, 2007)

*Hai Bhi_Sach_Ji- *


_Had hi ho gai_.


			
				Hai_Bhi_Sach said:
			
		

> _That is your outlook. You limitation. You small well. But there is an Ocean out there. _


_*so aren’t you limited too- as Waheguru is Apaar as all the oceans we have on earth are all within space limits.*_


			
				Hai_Bhi_Sach said:
			
		

> _I have no intention of being called a Guru. I have much stronger bond with my Gurus. And this is not a joke either. This is not a show off but an inspiration to those who doubt that it is impossible for them or anyone else._


 
_*You want to be called a Guru -All your posts are crying out loud for it, even this one .*_




			
				Hai_Bhi_Sach said:
			
		

> _"EGO" no matter how much you try to hide it, you can not bury ego under knowledge, it eventually resurfaces. Surinder Kaurs ego and anger showed up very quickly time and again but it took some time for you. Your “ANGER” element was to follow. This is precisely the point i was trying to prove. You cannot bury them they will not go away no matter how hard you try. Your patience will wear out. You cannot win them by fighting them. Recognize where these energies are emanating from. Learn to control them just as we now control electricity. Your abuse and sarcasm is “sir mathey”. It has no effect on me. The main issue was realization. If you have felt it then good if not then………. Draw your own conclusion, you know where you stand. You can cheat the world but not yourself. Naam will only work if your body is also in tune. Guru ji intended to make us a Sant and Sapahi. Sant – though realization and Sapahi because you need to be fit for the task. Just as a musical instrument can look very pretty out of the box but it is useless without it being tuned. Tune both mind and body if you want to experience the divine bliss. Like a tuned instrument when played causes resonance in others just lying idle similarly Naam, Simran done by an out of tune body is unlikely to affect others. This is what Guru ji means when they say your simran will help your family and others around you. It is your Aura that is doing the work. - Then you will be worthy of the title. The difference between an ordinary death and that of a Sadhu is that the ordinary is unaware of what is happening and clings to the body trying to preserve it. The Sadhu lives though the process awake and alert and plans his own destiny. But salvation is still through Gurus Blessing._


 
_*Is not all this above and below written by you is drenched with ego*_



			
				Hai_Bhi_Sach said:
			
		

> _Now going back to "Jo Brehmande soe Pinde"_
> 
> _In this external world, which is full of finite things, it is impossible to see and find the Infinite. The Infinite must be sought in that alone which is infinite, and the only thing infinite about us is that which is within us, our own soul. Neither the body, nor the mind, nor even our thoughts, nor the world we see around us, is infinite._


 

_*So you are saying- Brehmund is finite!*_
_*Interesting babe de interesting chaile*_



			
				Hai_Bhi_Sach said:
			
		

> _Where God is, there is no other. Where the world is, there is no God. These two will never unite. Like light and darkness. The mistake is that we cling to the body when it is the spirit that is really immortal._
> 
> _After every happiness comes misery; they may be far apart or near. The more advanced the soul, the more quickly does one follow the other. What we want is neither happiness nor misery. Both make us forget our true nature; both are chains—one iron, one gold; behind both is the Atman, who knows neither happiness nor misery. These are states, and states must ever change; but the nature of the Atman is bliss, peace, unchanging. We have not to get it, we have it; only wash away the dross and see it._
> 
> ...


 

_*I strongly believe that along with our Guru SGGS Ji we will be protected anywhere and everywhere, be it in any time, space or condition(dukh or sukh). I am sure all who believe in SGGS Ji thinks the same way and experience the same. *_



			
				Hai_Bhi_Sach said:
			
		

> _I thank SPN for putting up with me. _
> 
> _My most humble apologies to all that may have been be-littled by my comments and approach. You are all DHAN DHAN._


 

_*Very ambiguous approach Hai-Bhi_Sach ji.*_


_*Bul Chuk Maaf karna Sadh Sangat Ji.*_


----------



## gursikh (Feb 28, 2007)

_Lots of fighting....  _

_Guys calm down... no matter what anybody says or think... only thing matters is our image in the God's(Waheguru's) eyes..._

_we all should work hard to see that feeling of proud and love in his eyes for us ... all our efforts and goals should lead towards Him.._

*I guess we all agree to that  if yes then lets discuss what makes waheguru happy... how we can do proud to Him...*


----------



## simpy (Feb 28, 2007)

gursikh said:


> _Lots of fighting....  _
> 
> _Guys calm down... no matter what anybody says or think... only thing matters is our image in the God's(Waheguru's) eyes..._
> 
> ...


 
*Respected Saadh Sangat Ji*



*God is always at peace, and carefree. *

*Satgur Prasaad*

*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Sache Patshah da Hukam Hai-*

*hukmI hukmu clwey rwhu ]*
*nwnk ivgsY vyprvwhu ]*

* 
krmu Drmu scu hwiQ qumwrY ]
vyprvwh AKut BMfwrY ]
qU dieAwlu ikrpwlu sdw pRBu Awpy myil imlwiedw ]

* 



*suix suix gMFxu gMFIAY iliK piV buJih Bwru ]*
*iqRsnw Aihinis AglI haumY rogu ivkwru ]*
*Ehu vyprvwhu Aqolvw gurmiq kImiq swru ]*

*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru angad Dev Ji Sach patshah da Hukam Hai-*


*syeI pUry swh ijnI pUrw pwieAw ]*
*ATI vyprvwh rhin iekqY rMig ]*
*drsin rUip AQwh ivrly pweIAih ]*
*krim pUrY pUrw gurU pUrw jw kw bolu ]*
*nwnk pUrw jy kry GtY nwhI qolu ]*



*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Amar Das Ji Sach Patshah Da Hukam Hai-*



*vyprvwhu scu myrw ipAwrw ]*
*iklivK Avgx kwtxhwrw ]*
*pRym pRIiq sdw iDAweIAY BY Bwie Bgiq idRVwvixAw ]*


*gurmuiK hovY so swlwhy ]*
*swcy Twkur vyprvwhy ]*
*nwnk nwmu vsY mn AMqir gur sbdI hir mylwvixAw ]*

*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Ram Das Ji Sach Patshah da Hukam hai-*


*qU vyprvwhu AQwhu hY Aqulu ikau qulIAY ]*
*sy vfBwgI ij quDu iDAwiedy ijn siqguru imlIAY ]*
*siqgur kI bwxI siq srUpu hY gurbwxI bxIAY ]*
*siqgur kI rIsY hoir kcu ipcu boldy sy kUiVAwr kUVy JiV pVIAY ]*
*En@w** AMdir horu muiK horu hY ibKu mwieAw no JiK mrdy kVIAY ]*



*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Arjan Dev Ji Sache Paatshah da Hukam hai-*


*mIqu krY soeI hm mwnw ]*
*mIq ky krqb kusl smwnw ]1]*
*eykw tyk myrY min cIq ]*
*ijsu ikCu krxw su hmrw mIq ]1] rhwau ]*
*mIqu hmwrw vyprvwhw ]*
*gur ikrpw qy moih Asnwhw ]2]*
*mIqu hmwrw AMqrjwmI ]*
*smrQ purKu pwrbRhmu suAwmI ]3]*
*hm dwsy qum Twkur myry ]*
*mwnu mhqu nwnk pRBu qyry ]4]*




*inkit jIA kY sd hI sMgw ]*
*kudriq vrqY rUp Aru rMgw ]1]*
*krHY n JurY nw mnu rovnhwrw ]*
*AivnwsI Aivgqu Agocru sdw slwmiq Ksmu hmwrw ]1] rhwau ]*
*qyry dwsry kau iks kI kwix ]*
*ijs kI mIrw rwKY Awix ]2]*
*jo laufw pRiB kIAw Ajwiq ]*
*iqsu laufy kau iks kI qwiq ]3]*
*vymuhqwjw vyprvwhu ]*
*nwnk dws khhu gur vwhu ]4]*


*vyprvwhu Anµd mY nwau mwxk hIrw ]*
*rjI DweI sdw suKu jw kw qUM mIrw ]*

 
*ijsu cIiq Awvih so vyprvwhw ]*
*ijsu cIiq Awvih so swcw swhw ]*
*ijsu cIiq Awvih iqsu Bau kyhw Avru khw ikCu kIjw hy ]*
*iqRsnw bUJI AMqru TMFw ]*
*guir pUrY lY qUtw gMFw ]*
*suriq sbdu ird AMqir jwgI Aimau Joil Joil pIjw hy ]*






*Forgive me please*


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## Hai_Bhi_Sach (Mar 8, 2007)

Kaur-1



> p/s: Actually Bhenji Surinder Kaur is the calm one. You should read my post's when i first joined. My word I had nasty temper!!!  :}{}{}: and I still do but in a lesser degree.
> 
> 
> As regards to your above post, *Oh my Word, I am amazed!!.*
> ...




I am not at all suprised with your comments. 

"Nindo Nindo mohe loko nindo, ninda mujko hai bari pyari" SGGS ji

Your are absolutely right I belong to a cult. My cult members are Guru Arjan Dev ji, Guru Amar Das ji, Guru Ram Das ji and Guru Arjan Dev ji and Finally Guru Granth Sahib ji. These are my Gurus and friends that I have had the opportunity to be, sit and walk with. It is my misfortune and bad timing that I have come in contact with you people.

Now you tell me which cult you people belong to? Whose teachings are you following? Which Gurus are you followings? or Are you lot trying to set up a sect to mislead people? 

If putting someone on the right path is a sin then I am guilty. If helping to save someone time to reach a goal in lesser time is a sin then I have committed one. But my Gurus are my witness. So please give me as much NINDA as you possibly can because it is all going in my favour. 

If you people cannot understand in plain simple english then that is not my problem. By the time you people are near the end of your lives, you will then realise that this life has been a waste of time and someone indeed was trying to help. I wanted to help you people because I liked your enthusiasm. But I have been a bad judge. 

Why not the three of you - no no - all of you who have misconceptions of my intentions take a Waq from My Guru, Guru Granth Sahib ji and as to who and which cult I belong to?

Let Guru ji decide.
Dhan Guru Amar Das ji

I will thus visit again in a weeks time to view your waqs. And that shall be my last visit here. I take leave from you people with a heavy heart.

Take another Waq for yourselves too. Let us also see where your fate lies.


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Mar 12, 2007)

Dear sis Surinder

No problems... 
My intention to invite u on chat was only that.. we cn discuss in real time... because the things cn be discussed in real time cant be done here..
I will put some quotes today also..
but if u want to finish it up early then do add me ... otherwise its OK here also

and please put the meaning of the lines(BHAI PRAPAT MANUKH.....) that I put in my early reply.. what u understand of it
WHAT DOES SADH SANGAT MEANS IN THAT LINES
so that i cn continue

Forgive me too..

GuruFateh


Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Respected Sahil Makkar Ji,*
> 
> *thanks endlessly.*
> 
> ...


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## simpy (Mar 12, 2007)

*Respected Sahil Ji,*


*endless thanks*



*For a Gursikh and a Gurmukh Saadh is TRUE SAINT.*

*and we have a LIVING JOTE OF TRUE SAINT-DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI*


*you can give endless arguments against it, this is the truth a TRUE GURSIKH/GURMUKH BEIEVES IN.*


*endless thanks for your interest to discuss this.*


*LIVNG GURU IS DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI. GURBANI IS my SATGURU, my SAT SANGAT, my LIFE, my FOOD, my BREATH, my EVERYTHING. So many have tried to convince this neech to change her belief, and so many will come, with Waheguru's grace i am ready for it. Everytime somebody tries it- GURPRASAAD MULTIPLIES MILLIONS AND ZILLIONS OF TIMES. THANKS ENDLESSLY........*



*GURU MERE SANG SADAA HAI NAALEY*​ 


*JIS DAA SAHIB DAADA HOVAY TIS NU MAAR NA SAKEY KOI, MAAR NA SAAKEY KOI*​ 




*forgive me please*​


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Mar 12, 2007)

Dear sis

*For a Gursikh and a Gurmukh Saadh is TRUE SAINT.*
*WHERE IT IS WRITTEN IN SGGS

*


Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Respected Sahil Ji,*
> 
> 
> *endless thanks*
> ...


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## simpy (Mar 12, 2007)

*Respected Sahil Ji,*


*endless and endless thanks Ji*



*i think everybody agree on this that SAADH ohi hai jis ne apnaa man saadhya hai....*


*Te mera te almost saare gurmukhs da yakeen  hai ke saare DHAN DHAN GURU SAHIBAAN and THE REAL BHAGAT BHANDAAR OF KARTA PURKH have that caliber, sir. *




*endless thanks yo you again*









*forgive me please*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Mar 12, 2007)

Dear sis

ABSOLUTELY TRUE *
i think everybody agree on this that SAADH ohi hai jis ne apnaa man saadhya hai....

but can u explain meaning of MAN SAADHYA
*


Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Respected Sahil Ji,*
> 
> 
> *endless and endless thanks Ji*
> ...


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## simpy (Mar 12, 2007)

*Respected Sahil Ji,*



*Endlessly thanks again and again*



*Man nu saadhan di chaabi Guru ton mildi hai-*



*Sari GurBani Guru Hai*

*one has to read and contemplate on it within one's own mind and with other gurmukhs, NOBODY CAN SPOONFEED SADHNA TO THE OTHER PERSON, it's self experience. *



*by the way, can i ask the reason for being put through this question trail.... *

* if i remember it correctly, you yourself claimed one time that you are a sikh. Or, was it  ANOTHER GURU, what happened to your Guru, not answering your questions, why asking me, ask your Guru, i am only dust of everybody's feet, what can i be able to do, nothing. *

*i do not think i am able to make anybody understand anything, *

*Gurbani is, and one has to read and live the Truth oneself, *

*Waheguru is, and He does this in His Own Endless Ways......*




*Endlessly thanks and thanks again*





*forgive me please*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Mar 12, 2007)

Dear sis

Thanks

behan SADH  means who has established himself in GOD (after this condition only MAN SADHTA hega)
and that is a saint... Have we overcome ur desires.. we are not SADH
but SADHU is SADH.. who is continuously seeing GOD  and can show u also
ODI SANGAT KARO
ehio SADH SANGAT HE

I will put some more GURUBANI....
that tells SADH-SANGAT IS NECESSARY for LIBERATION

GURU FATEH


Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Respected Sahil Ji,*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## simpy (Mar 12, 2007)

*Respected Sahil Ji,*

*endless thanks to you Sahil Ji.*


*Can you mention the name of the Saadh who is showing you God.*
*just for information.  *









*forgive me please*


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## simpy (Mar 12, 2007)

*Respected sahil Ji, Bani says a lot of things not just one-*

*SatGur Prasaad*

*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Angad Dev Ji De Bachan Page #791*

*imilAY imilAw nw imlY imlY imilAw jy hoie ]*
*AMqr AwqmY jo imlY imilAw khIAY soie ]*


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## simpy (Mar 12, 2007)

*Respected Sahil Ji, Bani also says page # 669:*


*DnwsrI mhlw 4 ]
syvk isK pUjx siB Awvih siB gwvih hir hir aUqm bwnI ]
gwivAw suixAw iqn kw hir Qwie pwvY ijn siqgur kI AwigAw siq siq kir mwnI ]1]
bolhu BweI hir kIriq hir Bvjl qIriQ ]
hir dir iqn kI aUqm bwq hY sMqhu hir kQw ijn jnhu jwnI ] rhwau ]
Awpy guru cylw hY Awpy Awpy hir pRBu coj ivfwnI ]
jn nwnk Awip imlwey soeI hir imlsI Avr sB iqAwig Ehw hir BwnI ]2]5]11]*




*forgive me please*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Mar 13, 2007)

GuruFateh
dear sis sarabjeet
_
twadi hi likhiya lina dubara likh raya va...

_ਮਿਲਿਐ  ਮਿਲਿਆ  ਨਾ  ਮਿਲੈ  ਮਿਲੈ  ਮਿਲਿਆ  ਜੇ  ਹੋਇ  ॥ 
मिलिऐ मिलिआ ना मिलै मिलै मिलिआ जे होइ ॥ 
mili-ai mili-aa naa milai milai mili-aa jay ho-ay. 
By uniting, the united one is not united; he unites, only if he is united. 

ਅੰਤਰ  ਆਤਮੈ  ਜੋ  ਮਿਲੈ  ਮਿਲਿਆ  ਕਹੀਐ  ਸੋਇ  ॥੩॥ 
अंतर आतमै जो मिलै मिलिआ कहीऐ सोइ ॥३॥ 
antar aatmai jo milai mili-aa kahee-ai so-ay. ||3|| 
But if he unites deep within his soul, then he is said to be united. ||3|| 

_Antar aaatme jo mile, milya kahiye soe_... but can u tell what do mean by _MILNA.._. how we can meet aatma.. OK leave aatma how will we meet ANYBODY say our Frends.. 
1st step is SEEING_ (Dekhna)
_then comes MEETING/UNITING_(MILNA)... 
_*HAVE u SEEN UR SOUL.. if not then hw come u meet ur ATMA...

Forgive me please..
*


Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Respected sahil Ji, Bani says a lot of things not just one-*
> 
> *SatGur Prasaad*
> 
> ...


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Mar 14, 2007)

Dear sister Surinder..

Read this

*Page no 71*
ਕਿਰਪਾ  ਕਰੇ  ਜਿਸੁ  ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ  ਹੋਵੈ  ਸਾਧੂ  ਸੰਗੁ  ॥ 
किरपा करे जिसु पारब्रहमु होवै साधू संगु ॥ 
kirpaa karay jis paarbarahm hovai saaDhoo sang. 
The Supreme Lord showers His Mercy, and we find the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. 

ਜਿਉ  ਜਿਉ  ਓਹੁ  ਵਧਾਈਐ  ਤਿਉ  ਤਿਉ  ਹਰਿ  ਸਿਉ  ਰੰਗੁ  ॥ 
जिउ जिउ ओहु वधाईऐ तिउ तिउ हरि सिउ रंगु ॥ 
ji-o ji-o oh vaDhaa-ee-ai ti-o ti-o har si-o rang. 
The more time we spend there, the more we come to love the Lord. 

ਦੁਹਾ  ਸਿਰਿਆ  ਕਾ  ਖਸਮੁ  ਆਪਿ  ਅਵਰੁ  ਨ  ਦੂਜਾ  ਥਾਉ  ॥ 
दुहा सिरिआ का खसमु आपि अवरु न दूजा थाउ ॥ 
duhaa siri-aa kaa khasam aap avar na doojaa thaa-o. 
The Lord is the Master of both worlds; there is no other place of rest. 

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ  ਤੁਠੈ  ਪਾਇਆ  ਨਾਨਕ  ਸਚਾ  ਨਾਉ  ॥੯॥੧॥੨੬॥ 
सतिगुर तुठै पाइआ नानक सचा नाउ ॥९॥१॥२६॥ 
satgur tuthai paa-i-aa naanak sachaa naa-o. ||9||1||26|| 
When the True Guru is pleased and satisfied, O Nanak, the True Name is obtained. ||9||1||26|| 

*PAGE 109*
ਝੂਠਾ  ਮੰਗਣੁ  ਜੇ  ਕੋਈ  ਮਾਗੈ  ॥ 
झूठा मंगणु जे कोई मागै ॥ 
jhoothaa mangan jay ko-ee maagai. 
One who asks for a false gift, 

ਤਿਸ  ਕਉ  ਮਰਤੇ  ਘੜੀ  ਨ  ਲਾਗੈ  ॥ 
तिस कउ मरते घड़ी न लागै ॥ 
tis ka-o martay gharhee na laagai. 
shall not take even an instant to die. 

ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ  ਜੋ  ਸਦ  ਹੀ  ਸੇਵੈ  ਸੋ  ਗੁਰ  ਮਿਲਿ  ਨਿਹਚਲੁ  ਕਹਣਾ  ॥੧॥ 
पारब्रहमु जो सद ही सेवै सो गुर मिलि निहचलु कहणा ॥१॥ 
paarbarahm jo sad hee sayvai so gur mil nihchal kahnaa. ||1|| 
But one who continually serves the Supreme Lord God and meets the Guru, is said to be immortal. ||1|| 
*

PAGE 21*
ਏਹੁ  ਮਨੋ  ਮੂਰਖੁ  ਲੋਭੀਆ  ਲੋਭੇ  ਲਗਾ  ਲਭਾਨੁ  ॥ 
एहु मनो मूरखु लोभीआ लोभे लगा लोभानु ॥ 
ayhu mano moorakh lobhee-aa lobhay lagaa lobhaan. 
This foolish mind is greedy; through greed, it becomes even more attached to greed. 

ਸਬਦਿ  ਨ  ਭੀਜੈ  ਸਾਕਤਾ  ਦੁਰਮਤਿ  ਆਵਨੁ  ਜਾਨੁ  ॥ 
सबदि न भीजै साकता दुरमति आवनु जानु ॥ 
sabad na bheejai saaktaa durmat aavan jaan. 
The evil-minded shaaktas, the faithless cynics, are not attuned to the Shabad; they come and go in reincarnation. 

ਸਾਧੂ  ਸਤਗੁਰੁ  ਜੇ  ਮਿਲੈ  ਤਾ  ਪਾਈਐ  ਗੁਣੀ  ਨਿਧਾਨੁ  ॥੧॥ 
साधू सतगुरु जे मिलै ता पाईऐ गुणी निधानु ॥१॥ 
saaDhoo satgur jay milai taa paa-ee-ai gunee niDhaan. ||1|| 
One who meets with the Holy True Guru finds the Treasure of Excellence. ||1|| 


There are too many such lines in SGGS that i can put ... if u want more..
but lets first discuss this only.. then we will go to next

Forgive me please
GuruFateh



Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Respected Sahil Ji, Bani also says page # 669:*
> 
> 
> *DnwsrI mhlw 4 ]
> ...




*PLEASE REPLY SISTER.........*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Mar 20, 2007)

REPLY TO MY POST SURINDER BEHAN .... So that  i can put some more references..


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## Vikram singh (Mar 20, 2007)

*A Sikh is a Sikh! Why do people still go on about being upper caste and believe in the caste system. And who are this so called upper caste Sikhs. I think Hindu elements has come in Sikhism,I have seen couple gurdwara also name as Ramgharia Gurdwara also,
*


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