# Ear Wax And Creation Issues Raised By S. Harmanjeet Singh Ji Answered



## vijaydeep Singh (Jul 15, 2009)

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=387&english=t&id=17736 Gurfateh

(੯੨੦-੧੫, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ, ਮ ੩)
ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਪੁੰਨ ਪਾਪ ਬੀਚਾਰਦੇ ਤਤੈ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ॥
simrith saasathr punn paap beechaaradhae thathai saar n jaanee ||
The Simritees and the Shaastras discriminate between good and evil, but they do not know the true essence of reality.
​ *15* Raamkalee Guru Amar Das


(੯੨੦-੧੫, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ, ਮ ੩)
ਤਤੈ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਤਤੈ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ॥
thathai saar n jaanee guroo baajhahu thathai saar n jaanee ||
They do not know the true essence of reality without the Guru; they do not know the true essence of reality.
​ *15* Raamkalee Guru Amar Das


(੯੨੦-੧੬, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ, ਮ ੩)
*ਤਿਹੀ* ਗੁਣੀ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਸੁਤਾ ਸੁਤਿਆ ਰੈਣਿ ਵਿਹਾਣੀ ॥
thihee gunee sansaar bhram suthaa suthiaa rain vihaanee ||
The world is asleep in the three modes and doubt; it passes the night of its life sleeping.
​ *16* Raamkalee Guru Amar Das
  (Ang 920)

  As per our brother Harman Jeet Singh Ji of Canada, Sikhs are sleeping. Well world sleeps when the world is in three qualities. When we move off these three via Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji we are awaken. Then we do not have to restore to the lies which are perpetually told that there is a conspiracy to bring any other book equal to our eternal Guru Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. So coming to the topic about creation by ear wax.

  Well after reading this thing was assured that our brother has not read Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji correctly. Or interpretation he reads are from atheists, who are of low intellect also, fact is that while reading Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, even then a person remains atheist or comrade, it is pitiful.
   So full sympathies to them.

  First whole of that part is given instead of parts. As if we give only parts then this is kalaafghanism and not Sikhism. Like lamp flutters a lot before extinguishing of its flame. So Kala Afghanism is at last leg. The issue raised by Bhai Harmanjeet Singh Ji is same as raised by Mr Kala Afghana, and reply to him by Kanwar Ajeet Singh Ji was read. So no original contribution much is made but then adding few points by self and some taken from Gyani Balbeer Singh Ji of Germany(saysatsriakal.com).

  A one example is given from Shri Guru Granth Sahib, showing the ill effect of giving partial quotes.

ਬੇਸੁਆ ਰਵਤ *ਅਜਾਮ*ਲੁ ਉਧਰਿਓ 
baesuaa ravath ajaamal oudhhariou 
  Ajaamal, who had sex with prostitites 
  (Ang 995)

  Well if we give this much and tell that saving could be done with going to the prostitute ?

  This is the way of Kala Afghanites. And when  full quotes are given, they say that there is making of a long article. As long article is must to delibratly expose the shortcoming. As mind of kala afghanites are like table tennis ball, so they find such article as football field.

  So full quote of this verse is given below.

(੯੯੫-੮, ਮਾਰੂ, ਮ ੪)
ਬੇਸੁਆ ਰਵਤ *ਅਜਾਮ*ਲੁ ਉਧਰਿਓ ਮੁਖਿ ਬੋਲੈ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਨਰਹਰੇ ॥
baesuaa ravath ajaamal oudhhariou mukh bolai naaraaein nareharae ||
Ajaamal, who had sex with prostitites, was saved, by chanting the Name of the Lord.
​ *8* Maaroo Guru Ram Das
  (Ang 995)

  In case still we do not take any reference to Hindu Vaishanavite sources then, it may be understood as Vam Margi is speaking some mantras while having the sex. Or even remembering the name of his deity while having a sex. This is there way.

  So lets us give the whole quote of relevant text from Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji, Chapter 2 of Vachitar Natak Sahib.


ਅਪਨੀ ਕਥਾ

AUTOBLIOGRAPHY
​ 
*Page 112, Line 9*


ਚੌਪਈ ॥
Chaupaoo||
CHAUPAI
​ 
*Page 112, Line 10*


ਤੁਮਰੀ ਮਹਿਮਾ ਅਪਰ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਲਹਿਓ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਪਾਰਾ ॥
Tumroo mahimaa apar apaaraa|| Jaa kaa lahio na kinhoon paaraa||
O Lord! Thy Praise is Supreme and Infinite, none could comprehend its limits.
​ 
*Page 112, Line 11*


ਦੇਵ ਦੇਵ ਰਾਜਨ ਕੇ ਰਾਜਾ ॥ ਦੀਨ ਦਇਆਲ ਗਰੀਬ ਨਿਵਾਜਾ ॥੧॥
Dev dev raajan ke raajaa|| Doon daiaal garib nivaajaa||1||
O God of gods and King of kings, the Merciful Lord of the lowly and protector of the humble.1.
​ 
*Page 112, Line 12*


ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
Dohraa||
DOHRA
​ 
*Page 112, Line 13*


ਮੂਕ ਉਚਰੈ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਖਟ ਪਿੰਗੁ ਗਿਰਨ ਚੜਿ ਜਾਇ ॥
Mook uchrai Saastra khat ping(u) giran cha?(i) jaae||
The dumb utters the six Shastras and the crippled climbs the mountain.
​ 
*Page 112, Line 14*

ਅੰਧ ਲਖੈ ਬਧਰੋ ਸੁਨੈ ਜੌ ਕਾਲ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰਾਇ ॥੨॥
Andh lakhai badhro sunai jau kaal kripaa karaae||2||
The blind one sees and the deaf listens, if the KAL becomes Gracious.2.
​ 
*Page 113, Line 1*


ਚੌਪਈ ॥
Chaupaoo||
CHAUPAI
​ 
*Page 113, Line 2*


ਕਹਾ ਬੁੱਧਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੁੱਛ ਹਮਾਰੀ ॥ ਬਰਨ ਸਕੈ ਮਹਿਮਾ ਜੁ ਤਿਹਾਰੀ ॥
Kahaa buddh(i) Prabh tuchchh hamaaroo|| Baran sakai mahimaa ju tihaaroo||
O God! My intellect is trifling. How can it narrate Thy Praise?
​ 
*Page 113, Line 3*


ਹਮ ਨ ਸਕਤ ਕਰ ਸਿਫਤ ਤੁਮਾਰੀ ॥ ਆਪ ਲੇਹੁ ਤੁਮ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਧਾਰੀ ॥੩॥
Ham na sakat kar sifat tumaaroo|| aap leh(u) tum kathaa sudhaaroo||3||
I cannot (have sufficient words to) praise Thee, Thou mayst Thyself improve this narration.3.
​ 
*Page 113, Line 4*


ਕਹਾ ਲਗੈ ਇਹ ਕੀਟ ਬਖਾਨੈ ॥ ਮਹਿਮਾ ਤੋਰ ਤੁਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜਾਨੈ ॥
Kahaa lagai ih koot bakhaanai|| Mahimaa tor tuhoo Prabh jaanai||
Upto what limit this insect can depict (Thy Praises)? Thou mayst Thyself improve Thy Greatness.
​ 
*Page 113, Line 5*


ਪਿਤਾ ਜਨਮ ਜਿਮ ਪੂਤ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ॥ ਕਹਾ ਤਵਨ ਕਾ ਭੇਦ ਬਤਾਵੈ ॥੪॥
Pitaa janam jim poot na paavai|| Kahaa tavan ka bhed bataavai||4||
Just as the son cannot say anything about the birth of his father, then how can one unfold Thy mystery.4.
​ 
*Page 113, Line 6*


ਤੁਮਰੀ ਪ੍ਰਭਾ ਤੁਮੈ ਬਨਿ ਆਈ ॥ ਅਉਰਨ ਤੇ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਤ ਬਤਾਈ ॥
Tumroo prabhaa tumai ban(i) aaoo|| Auran te nahoo jaat bataaoo||
Thy Greatness is Only Thine, it cannot be described by others.
​ 
*Page 113, Line 7*


ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮ ਹੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜਾਨੋ ॥ ਉਚ ਨੀਚ ਕਸ ਸਕਤ ਬਖਾਨੋ ॥੫॥
Tumroo kripaa tum hoon Prabh jaano|| ooch nooch kas sakat bakhaano||5||
O Lord! Only Thou knowest Thy doings. Who hast the power to elucidate Thy High of Low acts? 5.
​ 
*Page 113, Line 8*


ਸੇਸਨਾਗ ਸਿਰ ਸਹਸ ਬਨਾਈ ॥ ਦ੍ਵੈ ਸਹੰਸ ਰਸਨਾਹੁ ਸੁਹਾਈ ॥
Sesnaag sir sabas banaaoo|| Dvai sahans rasnaah(u) suhaaoo||
Thou hast made one thousand hoods of Sheshanaga, which contain two thousand tongues.
​ 
*Page 113, Line 9*


ਰਟਤ ਅਬ ਲਗੇ ਨਾਮ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥ ਤੁਮਰੋ ਤਊ ਨ ਪਾਵਤ ਪਾਰਾ ॥੬॥
Ratat ab lage naam apaaraa|| Tumro taoo na paavat paaraa||6||
He is reciting till now Thy Infinite Names, even then he hath not know the end of Thy Names.6.
​ 
*Page 113, Line 10*


ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਕਹਾਂ ਕੋਉ ਕਹੈ ॥ ਸਮਝਤ ਬਾਤ ਉਰਝ ਮਤਿ ਰਹੈ ॥
Tumroo kriaa kahaan kooo|| Samjhat baat urjh mat(i) rahai||
What can one say about Thy doings? One gets puzzled while understanding it.
​ 
*Page 113, Line 11*


ਸੂਛਮ ਰੂਪ ਨ ਬਰਨਾ ਜਾਈ ॥ ਬਿਰਧ ਸਰੂਪਹਿ ਕਹੋ ਬਨਾਈ ॥੭॥
Soochham roop na barnaa jaaoo|| Biradh saroopah(i) kaho banaaoo||7||
Thy subtle form is indescribable, (therefore) I speak about Thy Immanent Form.7.
​ 
*Page 113, Line 12*


ਤੁਮਰੀ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਭਗਤਿ ਜਬ ਗਹਿਹੌ ॥ ਛੋਰ ਕਥਾ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਤਬ ਕਹਿਹੌ ॥
Tumroo prem bhagat(i) jab gahihau|| Chhor kathaa sabh hoo tab kahihau||
When I shall observe Thy loving Devotion, I shall then describe all Thy anecdotes from the beginning.
​ 
*Page 113, Line 13*


ਅਬ ਮੈ ਕਹੋ ਸੁ ਅਪਨੀ ਕਥਾ ॥ ਸੋਢੀ ਬੰਸ ਉਪਜਿਯਾ ਜਥਾ ॥੮॥
Ab mai kaho su apnoo kathaa|| So?hoo bans upjiyaa jathaa||8||
Now I narrate my own life-story, how the Sodhi clan came into being (in this world).8.
​ 
*Page 113, Line 14*

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
Dohraa||
DOHRA
​ 
*Page 114, Line 1*


ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਕਥਾ ਸੰਛੇਪ ਤੇ ਕਹੋ ਸੁ ਹਿਤੁ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ॥
Pritham kathaa sanchhep te kaho su hit(u) chit(u) laae||
With the concentration of my mind, I narrate in brief my earlier story.
​ 
*Page 114, Line 2*


ਬਹੁਰ ਬਡੋ ਬਿਸਥਾਰ ਕੈ ਕਹਿਹੌ ਸਭੋ ਸੁਨਾਇ ॥੯॥
Bahur bado bisthaar kai kahihau sabho sunaae||9||
Then after that, I shall relate all in great detail.9.
​ 
*Page 114, Line 3*


ਚੌਪਈ ॥
Chaupaoo||
CHAUPAI
​ 
*Page 114, Line 4*


ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਕਾਲ ਜਬ ਕਰਾ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥ ਓਅੰਕਾਰ ਤੇ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟ ਉਪਾਰਾ ॥
Pritham kaal jab karaa pasaaraa|| Oankaar te srist upaaraa||
In the beginning, when KAL created the world, it was brought into being by Aumkara (the One Lord).
​ 
*Page 114, Line 5*


ਕਾਲਸੈਣ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਭਇਓ ਭੂਪਾ ॥ ਅਧਿਕ ਅਤੁਲ ਬਲਿ ਰੂਪ ਅਨੂਪਾ ॥੧੦॥
Kaalsain prithmai bhaeo bhoopaa|| Adhik atul bal(i) roop anoopaa||10||
Kal sain was the first king, who was of immeasurable strength and supreme beauty.10.
​ 
*Page 114, Line 6*


ਕਾਲਕੇਤ ਦੂਸਰ ਭੂਅ ਭਯੋ ॥ ਕ੍ਰੂਰ ਬਰਸ ਤੀਸਰ ਜਗ ਠਯੋ ॥
Kaalket doosar bhooa bhayo|| Kroor baras toosar jag thayo||
Kalket became the second king and Kurabaras, the third.
​ 
*Page 114, Line 7*


ਕਾਲਧੁਜ ਚਤੁਰਥ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਸੋਹੈ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਤੇ ਭਇਓ ਜਗਤ ਸਭ ਕੋ ਹੈ ॥੧੧॥
Kaaldhuj chaturath nrip sohai|| Jih te bhaeo jagat sabh ko hai||11||
Kaldhuj was the fourth kin, from whon the whole world originated. 11.
​ 
*Page 114, Line 8*


ਸਹਸਰਾਛ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਸੁਭ ਸੋਹੈਂ ॥ ਸਹਸ ਪਾਦ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਤਨ ਮੋ ਹੈਂ ॥
Sahasraachh jaa ke subh sohain|| Sahas paad jaa ke tan mo hain||
He had a thousand eyes a thousand feet.
​ 
*Page 114, Line 9*


ਸੇਖਨਾਗ ਪਰ ਸੋਇਬੋ ਕਰੈ ॥ ਜਗ ਤਹਿ ਸੇਖਸਾਇ ਉਚਰੈ ॥੧੨॥
Sekhnaag par soebo karai|| Jag tah(i) Sekhsaae uchrai||12||
He slept on Sheshanaga, therefore he was called the master of Shesha.12.
​ 
*Page 114, Line 10*


ਏਕ ਸ੍ਰਵਣ ਤੇ ਮੈਲ ਨਿਕਾਰਾ ॥ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਮਧੁ ਕੀਟਭ ਤਨ ਧਾਰਾ ॥
Ek sravan te mail nikaaraa|| Taa te Madhu kootabh tan dhaaraa||
Out of the secretion from one of his ears, Madhu and Kaitabh came into being.
​ 
*Page 114, Line 11*


ਦੁਤੀਯ ਕਾਨ ਤੇ ਮੈਲੁ ਨਿਕਾਰੀ ॥ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਭਈ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਇਹ ਸਾਰੀ ॥੧੩॥
Dutooya kaan te mail(u) nikaaroo|| Taa te bhaoo sristtee ih saaroo||13||
And from the secretion of the other ear, the whole world materialized.13.
​ 
*Page 114, Line 12*


ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਕਾਲ ਬਹੁਰ ਬਧ ਕਰਾ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਮੋਦ ਸਮੁੰਦ ਮੋ ਪਰਾ ॥
Tin ko kaal bahur badh karaa|| Tin ko med samund mo paraa||
After some period, the Lord killed the demons (Madhu and Kaitabh). Their marrow flowed into the ocean.
​ 
*Page 114, Line 13*


ਚਿਕਨ ਤਾਸ ਜਲ ਪਰ ਤਿਰ ਰਹੀ ॥ ਮੇਧਾ ਨਾਮ ਤਬਹਿ ਤੇ ਕਹੀ ॥੧੪॥
Chikan taas jal par tir rahoo|| Medhaa naam tabah(i) te kahoo||14||
The greasy substance floated thereon, because of that medital (marrow), the earth was called medha (or medani).14.
​ 
*Page 114, Line 14*

ਸਾਧ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਜਗਤ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥
Saadh karam je purakh kamaavai|| Naam devtaa jagat kahaavai||
Because of virtuous actions, a purusha (person) is known as devta (god)
​ 
*Page 115, Line 1*


ਕੁਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਕਰਹੀਂ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਅਸੁਰ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਸਭ ਧਰਹੀਂ ॥੧੫॥
Kukrit karam je jag mai kar-hoon|| Naam asur tin ko sabh dhar-hoon||15||
And because of evil actions, he is known as asura (demon).15.
​ 
*Page 115, Line 2*


ਬਰੁ ਬਿਥਾਰ ਕਹਾ ਲਗੈ ਬਖਾਨੀਅਤ ॥ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਢਨ ਤੇ ਅਤਿ ਡਰੁ ਮਾਨੀਅਤ ॥
Bahu bithaar kahaa lagai bakhaanooat|| Granth ba?han te at(i) ?ar(u) maanooat||
If everything is described in detail, it is feared that the description will become voluminous.
​ 
*Page 115, Line 3*


ਤਿਨ ਤੇ ਹੋਤ ਬਹੁਤ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਆਏ ॥ ਦੱਛ ਪ੍ਰਜਾਪਤਿ ਜਿਨ ਉਪਜਾਏ ॥੧੬॥
Tin te hot bahut nrip aae|| Dachchh Prajaapat(i) jin upjaae||16||
There were many kings after Kaldhuj like Daksha Prajapati etc. 16.
​ 
*Page 115, Line 4*


ਦਸ ਸਹੰਸ੍ਰ ਤਿਹਿ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਭਈ ਕੰਨਿਆ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਸਮਾਨ ਕਹ ਲਗੈ ਨ ਅੰਨਿਆ ॥
Das sahansra tih(i) grih bhaoo kanniaa|| Jih samaan kah lagai na anniaa||
Ten thousand daughters were born to them, whose beauty was not matched by others.
​ 
*Page 115, Line 5*


ਕਾਲ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਐਸੀ ਤਹ ਭਈ ॥ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਬਿਆਹਿ ਨਰੇਸਨ ਦਈ ॥੧੭॥
Kaal kriyaa aisoo tah bhaoo|| Te sabh biaah(i) naresan daoo||17||
In due course all these daughters were married with the kings.17.
​ 
*Page 115, Line 6*


ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
Dohraa||
DOHRA
​ 
*Page 115, Line 7*


ਬਨਤਾ ਕਦਰੂ ਦਿਤਿ ਅਦਿਤਿ ਏ ਰਿਖ ਬਰੀ ਬਨਾਇ ॥
Banataa Kadaroo dit(i) adit(i) e rikh baroo bahaae||
Banita, Kadaru, Diti and Aditi became the wives of sages (rishis),
​ 
*Page 115, Line 8*


ਨਾਗ ਨਾਗਰਿਪੁ ਦੇਵ ਸਭ ਦਈਤ ਲਏ ਉਪਜਾਇ ॥੧੮॥
Naag naagrip(u) dev sabh daoot lae upjaae||18||
And Nagas, their enemies (like Garuda), the gods and demons were born to them.18.
​ 
*Page 115, Line 9*


ਚੌਪਈ ॥
Chaupaoo||
CHAUPAI
​ 
*Page 115, Line 10*


ਤਾ ਤੇ ਸੂਰਜ ਰੂਪ ਕੋ ਧਰਾ ॥ ਜਾ ਤੇ ਬੰਸ ਪ੍ਰਚੁਰ ਰਵਿ ਕਰਾ ॥
Taa te sooraj roop ko dharaa|| Jaa te bans prachur rav(i) karaa||
From that (Aditi), the sun was born, from whom Suraj Vansh (the Sun dynasty) originated.
​ 
*Page 115, Line 11*


ਜੋ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਕਹਿ ਨਾਮ ਸੁਨਾਊ ॥ ਕਥਾ ਬਢਨ ਤੇ ਅਧਿਕ ਡਰਾਊ ॥੧੯॥
Jo tin ke kah(i) naam sunaaoo|| Kathaa ba?han te adhik ?araaoo||19||
If I describe the names of the kings of this of this clan, I fear a great extension of the story.19.
​ 
*Page 115, Line 12*

  So only 19 verse are given.

  First issue raised by brother is that last two line of verse 8. Now I say good story of self.. As Sodi dynasty cropped up..8.. First brief story is said with good sticking of benefit to mind.. Again of big expansion , I will tell all to listen..9..First when God did extension(of self)..From the sound of Oankar creation was plucked out.. Time Army happened first master of land. Much , immeasurable force, unmatchable beauty..10..  Time Head happened the second lord of land. Third existing in universe was cruel year. Time emblem was fourth beautiful lord of men. From whom happen world to all..11.. Thousands of protections  towards him make him auspiciously beautiful. Thousands of lights from that’s body mesmerized. Did use to rest on residual serpent. World pronounced that lord of residual. ..12..from one leakage waste was pulled up.from that sweet and electricity equivalent got body/existence. .Second, from mine waste was exhumed . From that all this creation(earth) happened..13..They all again did got killed by God. Their body fat got dropped in ocean. The grease from that floated on water. From then onwards Land was called Medha/Medini..14..

  So a few issue bother raised and are so solved.


Did      Verse 9’s first line has only been realized with first two lines of verse      10 ?
Did      God of Shri Guru Granth Sahib is different from God told here as Brother      say that this God is like wild animal ?
Are      there some proofs about this happening as per Puranas, which are to be      found in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
   Taking point one.
  As we have verse:
  First brief story is said with good sticking of benefit to mind.. Again of big expansion , I will tell all to listen..9..

  So we have:
  First when God did extension(of self)..From the sound of Oankar creation was plucked out..(verse 10) as initial briefing.

  Here brother forgets that Guru, who is poet is talking about own story. Which is told be told in brief first and then large expansion will be done. This small or brief story is to do with story of cropping up of Sodi dynasty which is part of the story of Guru. Later we go in for expansion of story of other lifes of Guru, which in included in Chandi Charitra in thee versions, Gyan Prabodh, Chaubees Avtar and Up Avtars.
  (Term Sodi comes 4 times in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 923,1401,1406,1407 and is attached to Fourth Master only as he was once Sodi before the conversion, Rest Six Masters from his family as born in Sikh families may not be Sodis due to caste less ness of Sikhism) .

  So in start of expanded story this is explicitly told over here.


ਭਾਗ

SECTION XIV
​ 
*Page 173, Line 7*


ਚੌਪਈ ॥
Chaupaoo||
CHAUPAI
​ 
*Page 173, Line 8*


ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਸਭ ਸਾਧ ਉਬਾਰੇ ॥ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੈ ਕੈ ਦੋਖੀ ਸਭ ਮਾਰੇ ॥
Sarab kaal sabh saadh ubaare|| Dukh(u) dai kai dokhoo sabh maare||
At all times, the Lord protected all the saints and hath killed all the malicious persons, subjecting them to great agony.
​ 
*Page 173, Line 9*


ਅਦਭੁਤਿ ਗਤਿ ਭਗਤਨ ਦਿਖਰਾਈ ॥ ਸਭ ਸੰਕਟ ਤੇ ਲਏ ਬਚਾਈ ॥੧॥
Adbhut(i) gat(i) bhagtan dikhraai|| Sabh sankat te lae bachaaoo||1||
He hath exhibited His marvelous State to saints and hath saved them from all sufferings.1.
​ 
*Page 173, Line 10*


ਸਭ ਸੰਕਟ ਤੇ ਸੰਤ ਬਚਾਏ ॥ ਸਭ ਕੰਟਕ ਕੰਟਕ ਜਿਮ ਘਾਏ ॥
Sabh sankat te sant bachaae|| Sabh kantak kantak jim ghaae||
He hath saved His saints from all sufferings. He hath destroyed all the malevolent persons like the thorns.
​ 
*Page 173, Line 11*


ਦਾਸ ਜਾਨ ਮੁਹਿ ਕਰੀ ਸਹਾਇ ॥ ਆਪ ਹਾਥ ਦੈ ਲਯੋ ਬਚਾਇ ॥੨॥
Daas jaan muh(i) karoo sahaae|| aap haath dai layo bachaae||2||
Considering me as His Servant, He hath helped me, and hath protected me with His own hands.2.
​ 
*Page 173, Line 12*


ਅਬ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਮੈਂ ਲਖੇ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥ ਸੋ ਸੋ ਕਰੋ ਤੁਮੈ ਅਰਦਾਸਾ ॥
Ab jo jo main lakhe tamaasaa|| So so karo tumai ardaasaa||
All hose spectacles which have been visualized by me, I dedicate all of them to Thee.
​ 
*Page 173, Line 13*


ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਟਾਛ ਦਿਖੈਹੈ ॥ ਸੋ ਤਵ ਦਾਸ ਉਚਾਰਤ ਜੈਹੈ ॥੩॥
Jo Prabh kirpaa kataachh dikhaihai|| So tav daas uchaarat jaihai||3||
If Thou castest Thy Merciful glance at me, then Thy Servant shall utter all.3.
​ 
*Page 173, Line 14*

ਜਿਹ ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧ ਮੈ ਲਖੇ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥ ਚਾਹਤ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਕੀਯੋ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸਾ ॥
Jih jih bidh mai lakhe tamaasaa|| Chaahat tin ko kooo prakaasaa||
The kinds of spectacles that I have seen, I want to enlighten (the world) about them.
​ 
*Page 174, Line 1*


ਜੋ ਜੋ ਜਨਮ ਪੂਰਬਲੇ ਹੇਰੇ ॥ ਕਹਿਹੋ ਸੁ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਪਰਾਕ੍ਰਮ ਤੇਰੇ ॥੪॥
Jo jo janam poorbale bere|| Kahiho su Prabh(u) praakram tere||4||
All the past lives that have peeped into, I shall speak about them with Thy Power.4.
​ 
*Page 174, Line 2*


ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਹੈ ਪਿਤਾ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥ ਦੇਬਿ ਕਾਲਿਕਾ ਮਾਤ ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥
Sarab kaal hai pitaa apaaraa|| Deb(i) Kaalikaa maat hamaaraa||
He, my Lord is Father and Destroyer of all, the goddess Kalika is my mother.
​ 
*Page 174, Line 3*


ਮਨੂਆ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਰਿ ਮਨਸਾ ਮਾਈ ॥ ਜਿਨ ਮੋ ਕੋ ਸੁਭ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਪੜ੍ਹਾਈ ॥੫॥
Manooaa gur mur(i) mansaa maaoo|| Jin mo ko subh kriaa pa?haaoo||5||
The mind is my Guru and the discriminating intellect, the Guru’s wife is my mother, who hath taught me all about good deeds.5.
​ 
*Page 174, Line 4*


ਜਬ ਮਨਸਾ ਮਨ ਮਯਾ ਬਿਚਾਰੀ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਮਨੂਆ ਕਹ ਕਹਿਯੋ ਸੁਧਾਰੀ ॥
Jab mansaa man mayaa bichaaroo|| Gur manooaa kah kahiyo sudhaaroo||
When I (as mind) reflected on the kindness of the discriminating intellect, the Guru0mind uttered his refined statement.
​ 
*Page 174, Line 5*


ਜੇ ਜੇ ਚਰਿਤ ਪੁਰਾਤਨ ਨਹੇ ॥ ਤੇ ਤੇ ਅਬ ਚਹੀਅਤ ਹੈ ਕਹੇ ॥੬॥
Je je charit puraatan lahe|| Te te ab chahooat hai kahe||6||
All the wonderful things that were comprehended by the ancient sages, I want to speak about all of them.6.
​ 
*Page 174, Line 6*


ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਕਰਣਾ ਤਬ ਭਰੇ ॥ ਸੇਵਕ ਜਾਨ ਦਯਾ ਰਸ ਢਰੇ ॥
Sarab kaal karnaa tab bhare|| Sevak jaan dayaa ras ?hare||
Then my Lord, Destroyer of all, was filled with kindness and considering me as His servant, He was gracefully pleased.
​ 
*Page 174, Line 7*


ਜੋ ਜੋ ਜਨਮ ਪੂਰਬਲੋ ਭਯੋ ॥ ਸੋ ਸੋ ਸਭ ਸਿਮਰਣ ਕਰ ਦਯੋ ॥੭॥
Jo jo janam poorbalo bhayo|| So so sabh simran kar dayo||7||
The births of all the incarnations in the previous ages, He hath caused me to remember all of them.7.
​ 
*Page 174, Line 8*


ਮੋ ਕੌ ਇਤੀ ਹੁਤੀ ਕਹ ਸੁੱਧੰ ॥ ਜਸ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਦਈ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰਿ ਬੁੱਧੰ ॥
Mo kau itoo hutoo kah suddhang|| Jas Prabh daoo kripaa kar(i) buddhang||
How could I have all this information? The Lord mercifully gave such intellect.
​ 
*Page 174, Line 9*


ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਤਬ ਭਏ ਦਇਆਲਾ ॥ ਲੋਹ ਰਛ ਹਮ ਕੋ ਸਬ ਕਾਲਾ ॥੮॥
Sarab kaal tab bhae daiaalaa|| Loh rachh ham ko sab kaalaa||8||
My Lord, the Destroyer of all, then became Benevolent, At all times, I gave the Protection of at that steel-incarnated Lord.8.
​ 
*Page 174, Line 10*


ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਰੱਛਾ ਸਬ ਕਾਲ ॥ ਲੋਹ ਰੱਛ ਸਰਬਦਾ ਬਿਸਾਲ ॥
Sarab kaal rachchhaa sab kaal|| Loh rachchh sarbadaa bisaal||
At all times, Lord, Destroyer of all, protects me. That All-Pervading Lord is my Protector like Steel.
​ 
*Page 174, Line 11*


ਢੀਠ ਭਯੋ ਤਵ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਲਖਾਈ ॥ ਐਂਡੋ ਫਿਰੋ ਸਭਨ ਭਯੋ ਰਾਈ ॥੯॥
?hooth bhayo tav kripaa lakhaaoo|| Ain?o phiro sabhan bhayo raaoo||9||
Comprehending Thy Kindness, I have become fearless and in my pride, I consider myself as the king of all. 9.
​ 
*Page 174, Line 12*


ਜਿਹ ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧ ਜਨਮਨ ਸੁਧਿ ਆਈ ॥ ਤਿਮ ਤਿਮ ਕਹੇ ਗਿਰੰਥ ਬਨਾਈ ॥
Jih jih bidh janman sudh(i0 aaoo|| Tim tim kahe giranth bannoo||
The way in which I came to know about the births of incarnations, in the same manner, I have rendered them in books.
​ 
*Page 174, Line 13*


ਪ੍ਰਥਮੇ ਸਤਿਜੁਗ ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਲਹਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਥਮੇ ਦੇਬਿ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਕੋ ਕਹਾ ॥੧੦॥
Prathme satijug jih bidh(i) lahaa|| Prathme deb(i) charitra ko kahaa||10||
The way, in which I came to know about Satyuga, I have narrated it in the first poem of the miraculous feats of the goddess.10.
​ 
*Page 174, Line 14*

ਪਹਿਲੇ ਚੰਡੀ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਬਨਾਯੋ ॥ ਨਖ ਸਿਖ ਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਮ ਭਾਖ ਸੁਨਾਯੋ ॥
Pahile Chan?oo charitra banaayo|| Nakh sikh te kram bhaakh sunaayo||
The miraculous feats of goddess Chandi have been composed earlier, I have compsed (the same) in strict order from top to toe.
​ 
*Page 175, Line 1*


ਛੋਰ ਕਥਾ ਤਬ ਪ੍ਰਥਮ ਸੁਨਾਈ ॥ ਅਬ ਚਾਹਤ ਫਿਰਿ ਕਰੋਂ ਬਡਾਈ ॥੧੧॥
Chhor kathaa tab pratham sunaaoo|| Ab chaahat phir(i) karon ba?aaoo||11||
In the beginning I composed a comprehensive discourse, but now I want again to compose an Eulogy.11.
​ 
*Page 175, Line 2*


ਇਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ ਗ੍ਰੰਥੇ ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਕੀ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਬਰਨਨੰ ਨਾਮ ਚੌਦਸਮੋ ਧਿਆਇ ਸਮਾਪਤ ਮਸਤੁ ਸੁਭ ਮਸਤੁ ॥੧੪॥ਅਫਜੂ॥੪੭੧॥
It(i) Sroo Bachitra Naatak granthe sarab kaal koo bentoo barnanang naam chaudasmo dhiaae samaapat mast(u) subh mast(u)||14||Afjoo||471||
End of Fourteenth Chapter of BACHITTAR NATAK entitled ‘Description of the Supplication to the Lord, Destroyer of All’.14.471.
​ 
*Page 175, Line 3*
  (Vachitar Natak Sahib Chapter 14)

  So last verse of this text clarifies the problem created over here by Brother Harmanjeet Singh Ji.

  As the part in question where we have Akal’s taking form of creation via sound of Oankar is to deal with story of creation, which is only the part of story of the poet and not the briefing of the story of the poet that(not himself or her self as poet God is free from gender) self.

  Oankar is a sound.


(੮੮੫-੧, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ, ਮ ੫)
*ਓਅੰਕਾਰ*ਿ ਏਕ ਧੁਨਿ ਏਕੈ ਏਕੈ ਰਾਗੁ ਅਲਾਪੈ ॥
ouankaar eaek dhhun eaekai eaekai raag alaapai ||
He sings the song of the One Universal Creator; he sings the tune of the One Lord.
​ *1* Raamkalee Guru Arjan Dev
  (Ang 885)
  It is Sabad or word like we see in Gospel as per Saint John(first few lines)

(੧੦੬੧-੧੬, ਮਾਰੂ, ਮ ੩)
*ਓਅੰਕਾਰ*ਿ ਸਭ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਈ ॥
ouankaar sabh srisatt oupaaee ||
The One Universal Creator created the entire Universe.
​ *16* Maaroo Guru Amar Das
  (Ang 1061)

(੧੦੦੩-੧੭, ਮਾਰੂ, ਮ ੫)
*ਓਅੰਕਾਰ*ਿ ਉਤਪਾਤੀ ॥
ouankaar outhapaathee ||
The One Universal Creator Lord created the creation.
​ *17* Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev

  (Ang 1061)

  So in creation of manifestation this is the initial sound. As per shaktas, they go in for Inkar(they say that without “I” Shiva becomes Shava or dead body, as they show dead body of Shiva under the feet of Kalika) while Ganpatyas go for Gankar. Onakar is used by Vaishnavites and Vedantics also.

  Akal expands self, and then self takes manifestation like plucking done in engraving. That is what we are told in first two lines of Verse 10. Then in rest part of this and next verse as whole tells of four more kings. That means that creation is already being done by God via Oankar as a manifestation. After Fourth king, there is talk of earth’s land masses.

  So once God extended self, with sound energy took various shapes like engraving (like from sea waves take form, by plucking or from same metal, on the same metal designs are made). Then there is situation overwhelming the creation as Army of Time. That means that then as there is no stabilization in universe , in various frames there are various times.(within earth there are more then one time, GMT, IST etc.).
  Then head of time dominated, where he have been told the control over time by a mechanism. Then Cruel year/time is told about, where changing of time has been told about. Fourth dominating phenomena is Emblem or representation of time. It talks of consolidation of time. (all this could be basis for scientist dealing with the evolution of time).

  So by Verses 10 and 11, there whole lot of thing regarding creation is being told about and not as brother perceives that first half is brief and next one and a half is extension . Verse 12 is often thought of something about a serpent of thousand tongues who is also mentioned in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, who has many eyes, feet(in snake, each ring of scale is called foot).

  So let us see the meaning of verse 12. Thousands of protection(force of gravity) towards that were auspiciously looking beautiful. Thousands of rays from that body were mesmerizing . That rested on the serpent of residual(a group of asteroids in the shape of serpent). World called that master of residue..12..

  Here we deal with coherent group, tied with gravity, emitting rays, taking a shape of serpent. Like body wide at start, then a line till tail. That phenomenon is called Lord of residue. 

  Verse 13 talks of some newer things happening to the entity of verse 12.

  From/by one leakage( Sravan also means leakage) waste was removed. From that sweet/serene and bitter/equivalent distribution of electric light like glow worm(Glow worm phenomena) took bodies/existence(two contrasting things happened). Secondly wasted was removed from a mine(more wastage still could be in). This creation of Land happened from them.

  Verse 14 has intentionally not included by brother, so it given here.
  The God/Kal destroyed then again/again killed them. Their Medh/body part full of light things/fat dropped into ocean. From that grease/ lighter part floated on water/fluid (in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji we have Creator->Gas->Fluid->Solid Ang 19). Medha is named since then being called(to Earth).

  After contrasting forces in verse 13 got their initial form destroyed. We find new things. In the molten magma, we find these asteroids falling and some part floating as present day land masses.

  Succeeding verses tell that by deeds only a person could be termed as demigod or demons and all demons, demigods and humans etc are from one father. A great human with same sun was the founder of the dynasty of Rama.

  As per the logic of brother we should deem as
  God Kal-> Oankar->Creation(Verse 10)

  Should be the summery of something mapping in as
  Time Army->Time Head->Cruel Year->Time Emblem->Madhu Keetabh->*
                                                                           |  
                                                                          V 
                                                                 Creation
  (Verse 10 to 13)
   So as we see that in verse 10 to 13 we do not find any reference of God Kal or Oankar. Four entities already are created wide Time Army, Time Head, Cruel Year and Time Emblem and further Madhu Keetabh. Also within Verse 10 we find a link God Kal->Onakar->Creation->Time Army.(all in verse 10)

  Had the God Kal->Oankar->Creation a briefing then this should have been kept exclusively in one verse and no part of  so called expansion should have come into it.

  But by link given within the verse of the series. This proves that Time Army is a link of the series  which should be like 



        God Kal-> Oankar->Creation(of universe)-> Time Army->Time Head->Cruel Year->Time Emblem->Madhu Keetabh->*
                        |  
                       V 
                  Creation(of earth)
  (Verse 10 to 13)

  *-> Creation(of land masses by rearrangement ).
  (Verse 14)
  Here God Kal is told to be destroying something and not creating anything but destroying some thing to rearrange. 
  Kanwar Ajeet Singh Ji talks about Kala Afghanites,” they lack intellect, yet (due to ego perhaps) do not like to learn from others”.

  Further to this in Ramyana Uttarkandam 104 Sarg we do find Vishnu , the demigod kills Madhu Kaitabh as “primal God” after creating them. While in Chapter One of First Chandi Charitar Sahib and Fourteenth Avatar of Chaubees Avtar Sahib, we find Akal(God Of Sikhs)as told the supreme killing Madhua Kaitabh. 

  In Padham Purana Madhu and Kaitab are told to be from Tamas/dark and Rajas/practical  Gunas/qulities repectivly (Block related to creation(First Block), topic 31). Their mention and their relation to Akal Purakh as per Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, will be talked about latter.

  So main idea over here is given as per what Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji say that mythological acts related to the Vishnu should be attributed to the God of Sikhs. This in unique things of Sikhs and not to be found in any Hindu text.

  Coming to weather God in text question by brother is God of demigoddess worshipping Hindus or God of Sikhs.

  As per him Oankar in Text of Tenth Master is Mahakal, a demigod, So and further he gives some quotes from Krishna Avtar, which only talk about the name, and title of the first chapter of Vachitar Natak, ie praise of respected God Kal.

  So if we belive his own logic, Kal and Mahakal are one and as per verse at start of two lines will be like.

  First Kal, when extended. Via Mahakal plucked the creation out.(Verse 10). It will be absurd as in first line itself Kal is extending and expanding. With some sound this thing could happen which is Oankar. How can one use one self as a tool to manifest one self ?While already one is in process of expanding and extending. There is no need to repeat about this self again as our bother is trying to convey.

  Brother says that attributes given to God in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib make that look like an animal. Well in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, we have been told that God is in Animals also.


(੨੫੨-੧੪, ਗਉੜੀ, ਮ ੫)
ਕੀਟ ਹਸਤਿ ਮਹਿ ਪੂਰ ਸਮਾਨੇ ॥
keett hasath mehi poor samaanae ||
In the ant and in the *elephant*, He is totally pervading.
​ *14* Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
  (Ang 252)

  So let us see some examples of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji first.

(੭੨੭-੧੭, ਤਿਲਗ, ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ)
ਖੂਬੁ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਗਰੀ ਮੀਠੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਬੋਲ ॥
khoob thaeree pagaree meethae thaerae bol ||
How handsome is your *turban*! And how sweet is your speech.
​ *17* Tilang Saint Nam Dev
  (Ang 727)

(੫੨੬-੧੦, ਗੂਜਰੀ, ਭਗਤ ਤ੍ਰਿਲੋਚਨ ਜੀ)
ਬਦਤਿ ਤਿਲੋਚਨੁ ਤੇ ਨਰ ਮੁਕਤਾ *ਪੀਤੰ*ਬਰੁ ਵਾ ਕੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਬਸੈ ॥੫॥੨॥
badhath thilochan thae nar mukathaa peethanbar vaa kae ridhai basai ||5||2||
says Trilochan, that man shall be liberated; the Lord shall abide in his heart. ||5||2||
​ *10* Goojree Saint Trilochan 
  (Ang 526)

(੬੦੬-੧੬, ਸੋਰਠਿ, ਮ ੪)
ਆਪੇ ਸਾਵਲ ਸੁੰਦਰਾ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਆਪੇ ਵੰਸੁ ਵਜਾਹਾ ॥
aapae saaval sundharaa piaaraa aapae vans vajaahaa ||
The Beloved Himself is the blue-skinned, handsome one; He Himself plays on His *flute*.
​ *16* Sorith Guru Ram Das
  (Ang 606)

(੯੮੫-੧੫, ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ, ਮ ੪)
ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕੈ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਲੀਖਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਬਨਮਾਲਾ ॥੧॥
jinh kai masathak leekhiaa har miliaa har banamaalaa ||1||
Those who have such destiny inscribed upon their foreheads, meet with the Lord, adorned with *garland*s of flowers. ||1||
​ *15* Maalee Gaurhaa Guru Ram Das
  (Ang 985)

(੯੬੪-੧੩, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਵਾਰ-੨, ਮ ੫)
ਸਿਰਿ ਸਾਹਾ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੁ ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਚਉਰੁ ਛਤੁ ॥
sir saahaa paathisaahu nihachal chour shhath ||
You are the Emperor over the heads of kings. Your *canopy* and chauree (fly-brush) are permanent and unchanging.
​ *13* Raamkalee Guru Arjan Dev
  (Ang 964)

  So over here a civilized Aryan King like attributes are told to be with God, but for racial people, native Indian Dravidian Tribal attributes look like that of animal. Another mark of kala afghanaism.
  So let us see what other attributes does God is given to in Vachitar Natak Sahib.

ਭੁਜੰਗ ਪ੍ਰਯਾਤ ਛੰਦ ॥
Bhujang Prayaat Chhand||
BHUJANG PRAYAAT STANZA
​ 
*Page 95, Line 5*


ਸਦਾ ਏਕ ਜੋਤੰਯਾ ਅਜੁਨੀ ਸਰੂਪੰ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਦੇਵ ਦੇਵੰ ਮਹਾ ਭੂਪ ਭੂਪੰ ॥
Sadaa ek jotyang ajoonoo saroopang|| Mahaa dev devang mahaa bhoop bhoopang||
He, who is ever light-incarnate and birthless entity, Who is the god of chief gods, the king of chief kings.
​ 
*Page 95, Line 6*


ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਨਿਤਯਾ ਨਿਰੂਪੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਬਾਣੰ ॥ ਕਲੰ ਕਾਰਣੇਯੰ ਨਮੋ ਖੜਗ ਪਾਣੰ ॥੩॥
Nirankaar nityang niroopang nribaanang|| Kalang kaarneyang namo kha?ag paanang||3||
Who is Formless, Eternal, Amorphous and Ultimate Bliss. Who is the Cause of all the Powers, I salute the wielder of the Sword.3.
​ 
*Page 95, Line 7*


ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਨ੍ਰਿਬਿਕਾਰ ਨਿਤਯਾੰ ਨਿਰਾਲੰ ॥ ਨ ਬ੍ਰਿਧੰ ਬਿਸੇਖੰ ਨ ਤਰੁਨੰ ਨ ਬਾਲੰ ॥
Nirankaar Nribikaar nityang niraalang|| Na bridhangbisekhang na tarunang na baalang||
He is Formless, Flawless, eternal and Non-aligned. He is neither distinctively old, nor young nor immature.
​ 
*Page 95, Line 8*


ਨ ਰੰਕੰ ਨ ਰਾਯੰ ਨ ਰੂਪੰ ਨ ਰੇਖੰ ॥ ਨ ਰੰਗੰ ਨ ਰਾਗੰ ਅਪਾਰੰ ਅਭੇਖੰ ॥੪॥
Na rankang na raayang na roopang na rekhang|| Na rangang na raagang apaarang abhekhaang||4||
He is neither poor. nor rich; He is Formless and Markless. He is Colourless, Non-attached, Limitless and Guiseless.4.
​ 
*Page 95, Line 9*


ਨ ਰੂਪੰ ਨ ਰੇਖੰ ਨ ਰੰਗੰ ਨ ਰਾਗੰ ॥ ਨ ਨਾਮੰ ਨ ਠਾਮੰ ਸਹਾ ਜੋਤਿ ਜਾਗੰ ॥
Na roopang na rekhang na rangang na raagang|| Na naamang na thaamang mahaa jot(i) jaagang||
He is Formless, Signless, Colourless and Non-attached. He is Nameless, Placeless; and a Radiating Great Effulgence.
​ 
*Page 95, Line 10*


ਨ ਦ੍ਵੈਖੰ ਨ ਭੇਖੰ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਨਿਤੰਯਾ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਜੋਗ ਜੋਗੰ ਸੁ ਪਰਮੰ ਪਵਿਤਯਾੰ ॥੫॥
Na dvaikhang na bhekhang nirankaar nityang|| Mahaa jog jogang su paramang pavityang||5||
He is Blemishless, Guiseless, Formless and Eternal. He is a Superb Practising Yogi and a Supremely Holy Entity.5.
​ 
*Page 95, Line 11*


ਅਜੇਯੰ ਅਭੇਯੰ ਅਨਾਮੰ ਅਠਾਮੰ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਜੋਗ ਜੋਗੰ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਮ ਕਾਮੰ ॥
Ajeyang abheyang anaamang athaamang|| Mahaa jog jogang mahaa kaam kaamang||
He is unconquerable, Indistinguishable, Nameless and Placeless. He is a Superb Practicing Yogi, He is the Supreme Ravisher.
​ 
*Page 95, Line 12*


ਅਲੇਖੰ ਅਭੇਖੰ ਅਨੀਲੰ ਅਨਾਦੰ ॥ ਪਰੇਯੰ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰੰ ਸਦਾ ਨ੍ਰਿਬਿਖਾਦੰ ॥੬॥
Alekhang abheyang anoolang anaadang|| Preyang pavitrang sadaa nribikhaadang||6||
He is Accountless, Garbless, Stainless and without Beginning. He is in the Yond, Immaculate and ever without Contention.6.
​ 
*Page 95, Line 13*


ਸੁ ਆਦੰ ਅਨਾਦੰ ਅਨੀਲੰ ਅਨਾਦੰ ॥ ਅਦ੍ਵੈਖੰ ਅਭੇਖੰ ਮਹੇਸੰ ਮਹੰਤੰ ॥
Su aadang anaadang anoolang anantang|| Advaikhang abhekhang mahesang mahantang||
He is the Primal, Orignless, Stainless and Endless. He is Blemishless, Guiseless, Master of the earth and the destroyer of Pride.
​ 
*Page 95, Line 14*

ਨ ਰੋਖੰ ਨ ਸੋਖੰ ਨ ਦ੍ਰੋਹੰ ਨ ਮੋਹੰ ॥ ਨ ਕਾਮੰ ਨ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੰ ਅਜੋਨੀ ਅਜੋਹੰ ॥੭॥
Na rokhang na sokhang na drohang na mohang|| Na kaamang na krodhang ajonoo ajohang||7||
He is Ireless, Ever fresh, Deceitless and Non-attached. He is Lustless, Angerless, Birthless and Sightless.7.
​ 
*Page 96, Line 1*


ਪਰੇਅੰ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰੰ ਪੁਨੀਤੰ ਪੁਰਾਣੰ ॥ ਅਜੇਅੰ ਅਭੇਅੰ ਭਵਿਖਯਾ ਭਵਾਣੰ ॥
Pareyang pavitrang punootang puraanang|| Ajeang abheang bhavikhyang bhavaanang||
He is in the Yond, Immaculate, Most Holy and Ancient. He is Unconquerable, Indistinguishable, Will be in future and is always Present.
​ 
*Page 96, Line 2*


ਨ ਰੋਗੰ ਨ ਸੋਗੰ ਸੁ ਨਿਤਯਾੰ ਨਵੀਨੰ ॥ ਅਜਾਯੰ ਸਹਾਯੰ ਪਰਮੰ ਪ੍ਰਬੀਨੰ ॥੮॥
Na rogang na sogang su nityang navoonang|| Ajaayang sahaayang paramang||8||
He is without ailment and sorrow and is ever new. He is Birthless, He is the Supporter and is Supremely dexterous.8.
​ 
*Page 96, Line 3*


ਸੁ ਭੂਤੰ ਭਵਿਖਯਾੰ ਭਵਾਨੰ ਭਵੇਅੰ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਨ੍ਰਿਬਿਕਾਰੰ ਨਮੋ ਨ੍ਰਿਜੁਰੇਅੰ ॥
Su bhootang bhavikhyang bhavaanang bhaveang|| Namo nribikaarang namo nrijureang||
He Pervades in the Past, Future and Present. I Salute Him, Who is without vices and without ailments.
​ 
*Page 96, Line 4*


ਨਮੋ ਦੇਵ ਦੇਵੰ ਨਮੋ ਰਾਜ ਰਾਜੰ ॥ ਨਿਰਾਲੰਬ ਨਿਤਯਾੰ ਸੁ ਰਾਜਾਧਿਰਾਜੰ ॥੯॥
Namo dev devang namo raaj raajang|| Niraalanb nityang su raajaadhiraajang||9||
I Salute Him, Who is the god of gods and king of kings. He is Supportless, Eternal and Greatest of Emperors. 9
​ 
*Page 96, Line 5*


ਅਲੇਖੰ ਅਭੇਖੰ ਅਭੂਤੰ ਅਦ੍ਵੈਖੰ ॥ ਨ ਰਾਗੰ ਨ ਰੰਗੰ ਨ ਰੂਪੰ ਨ ਰੇਖੰ ॥
Alekhang abhekhang abhootang advaikhang|| na raagang na rangang na roopang na rekhang||
He is Accountless, Guiseless, Elementless and Blemishless. He is without attachment, colour, form and mark.
​ 
*Page 96, Line 6*


ਮਹਾ ਦੇਵ ਦੇਵੰ ਮਹਾ ਜੋਗ ਜੋਗੰ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਮ ਕਾਮੰ ਮਹਾ ਭੋਗ ਭੋਗੰ ॥੧੦॥
Mahaa dev devang mahaa jog jogang|| Mahaa kaam kaamang mahaa bhog bhogang||10||
He is the Greatest of gods and the Supreme Yogi. He is the Greatest of the rapturous and the greatest of the Ravishing.10.
​ 
*Page 96, Line 7*


ਕਹੂੰ ਰਾਜਸੰ ਤਾਮਸੰ ਸਾਤਕੇਅੰ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਨਾਰ ਕੇ ਰੂਪ ਧਾਰੇ ਨਰੇਅੰ ॥
Kahoon raajasang taamasang saatkeang|| Kahoon naar ke roop dhaare nareang||
Somewhere He bears the quality of rajas (activity), somewhere tamas (morbidity) and somewhere sattva (rhythm). Somewhere He takes the form of a woman and somewhere man.
​ 
*Page 96, Line 8*


ਕਹੂੰ ਦੇਵੀਅੰ ਦੇਵਤੰ ਦਈਤ ਰੂਪੰ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਰੂਪ ਅਨੇਕ ਧਾਰੇ ਅਨੂਪੰ ॥੧੧॥
Kahoon devooang devatang daoot roopang|| Kahoon roop anek dhaare anoopang||11||
Somewhere He manifests Himself as a goddess, god and demon. Somewhere He appears in several unique forms.11.
​ 
*Page 96, Line 9*


ਕਹੂੰ ਫੂਲ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਭਲੇ ਰਾਜ ਫੂਲੇ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਭਵਰ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਭਲੀ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭੂਲੇ ॥
Kahoon phool hvai kai bhale raaj phoole|| Kahoon bhavar hvai kai bhaloo bhaant(i) bhoole||
Somewhere He, taking the form of a flower, is rightly puffed up. Somewhere becoming a black bee, seems inebriated (for the flower).
​ 
*Page 96, Line 10*


ਕਹੂੰ ਪਉਨ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਬਹੇ ਬੇਗਿ ਐਸੇ ॥ ਕਹੇ ਮੋ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਕਥੋਂ ਤਾਹਿ ਕੈਸੇ ॥੧੨॥
Kahoon paun hvai kai bahe beg(i) aise|| Kahe mo na aavai kathon taah(i) kaise||12||
Somewhere becoming the wind, moves with such speed, which is indescribable, how can I elucidate it? 12.
​ 
*Page 96, Line 11*


ਕਹੂੰ ਨਾਦ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਭਲੀ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਬਾਜੇ ॥ ਰਹੂੰ ਪਾਰਧੀ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਧਰੇ ਬਾਨ ਰਾਜੇ ॥
Kahoon naad hvai kai bhaloo bhaant(i) baaje|| Kahoon paaradhoo hvai kai dhare baan raaje||
Somewhere He become a musical instrument, which is played appropriately. Somewhere He becomes a hunter who looks glorious with His arrow (in His bow).
​ 
*Page 96, Line 12*


ਕਹੂੰ ਮ੍ਰਿਗ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਭਲੀ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਮੋਹੇ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਕਾਮੁਕੀ ਜਿਉ ਧਰੇ ਰੂਪ ਸੋਹੇ ॥੧੩॥
Kahoon mrig hvai kai bhaloo bhaant(i) mohe|| Kahoon kaamuki jio dhare roop sohe||13||
Somewhere He becomes a deer and allures exquisitely. Somewhere He manifests Himself as Cupid’s wife, with impressive beauty.13.
​ 
*Page 96, Line 13*


ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਨ ਜਾਈ ਕਛੂ ਰੂਪ ਰੇਖੰ ॥ ਕਹਾਂ ਬਾਸ ਤਾ ਕੋ ਫਿਰੈ ਕਉਨ ਭੇਖੰ ॥
Nahoon jaan jaaoo kachhoo roop rekhang|| kahaan baas taa ko phirai kaun bhekhang||
His Form and Mark cannot be comprehended. Where doth He live and what guise doth He adopt?
​ 
*Page 96, Line 14*

ਕਹਾ ਨਾਮ ਤਾ ਕੋ ਕਹਾ ਕੈ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥ ਕਹਾ ਮੈ ਬਖਾਨੋ ਕਹੇ ਮੋ ਨ ਆਵੈ ॥੧੪॥
Kahaa naam taa ko kahaa kai kahaavai|| Kahaa mai bakhaano kahe mo na aavai||14||
What is His Name and how he is called? How can I describle? He is Indescribable.14.
​ 
*Page 97, Line 1*


ਨ ਤਾ ਕੋ ਕੋਈ ਤਾਤ ਮਾਤੰ ਨ ਭਾਯੰ ॥ ਨ ਪੁਤ੍ਰੰ ਨ ਪੌਤ੍ਰੰ ਨ ਦਾਯਾ ਨ ਦਾਯੰ ॥
Na taa ko kooo taat maatang na bhaayang|| na putrang na pautrang na daayaa na daayang||
He hath no father, mother and brother. He hath no son, no grandson and no male and female nurses.
​ 
*Page 97, Line 2*


ਨ ਨੇਹੰ ਨ ਗੇਹੰ ਨ ਸੈਨੰ ਨ ਸਾਥੰ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਰਾਜ ਰਾਜੰ ਮਹਾ ਨਾਥ ਨਾਥੰ ॥੧੫॥
Na nehang na gehaaag na sainang na saathang|| Mahaa raaj raaang mahaa naath naathang||15||
He hath no attachment, no home, no army and no companion. He is the Great King of kings and Great Lord of lords.15.
​ 
*Page 97, Line 3*


ਪਰਮੰ ਪ੍ਰਰਾਨੰ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰੰ ਪਰੇਯੰ ॥ ਅਨਾਦੰ ਅਨੀਲੰ ਅਸੰਭੰ ਅਜੇਯੰ ॥
Paramang puraanang preyang|| Anaadang anoolang asanbhang ajeyang||
He is Supreme, Ancient, Immaculate and in the Yond. He is beginningless. Stainless, Non-existent and Unconquerable.
​ 
*Page 97, Line 4*


ਅਭੇਦੰ ਅਛੇਦੰ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰੰ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਥੰ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਦੀਨ ਦੀਨੰ ਮਹਾ ਨਾਥ ਨਾਥੰ ॥੧੬॥
Abhedang achhedang pavitrang pramaathang|| Mahaa doon doonang mahaa naath naathang||16||
He is Indistinguishable, Indestructible, Holy and Paramount. He is the Most Humble of the meek and Great Lord of lords.16.
​ 
*Page 97, Line 5* 
  (Chapter one Vachitar Natak Sahib)

  So as per brother if such attributes are given to an animal then, such attributes are given to God in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji also.

  Then his saying that this God is Mahakal of Shakta is also wrong as that God is an incarnation of ShivJi, while here as per one quote given by borther this God is told above Shiva. Rudra Avtar from Chaubees Avtar and Rudras own Up Avtars could be seen, where Shiv is told to be lesser than God of Sikhs. There is another common name for Mahakal of Shaktas, which is mentioned many a times in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib as something subordinate to the God of Sikhs.

  But in next verse of Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji, we find name Mahakal given explicitly . so here God of Sikh is told to be the death of demigod Mahakal of Hindus.


ਅਦਾਗੰ ਅਦੱਗੰ ਅਲੇਖੰ ਅਭੇਖੰ ॥ ਅਨੰਤੰ ਅਨੀਲੰ ਅਰੂਪੰ ਅਦੈੂਖੰ ॥
Adaagang adaggang alekhang abhekhang|| Anantang anoolang aroopang advaikhang||
He is Stainless, Imperishable, Accountless and Guiseless. He is Limitless, Blemishless, Formless and Maliceless.
​ 
*Page 97, Line 6*


ਮਹਾ ਤੇਜ ਤੇਜੰ ਮਹਾ ਜ੍ਵਾਲ ਜ੍ਵਾਲੰ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੰ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਲ ਕਾਲੰ ॥੧੭॥
Mahaa tej tejang mahaa jvaal jvaalang|| Mahaa mantra mantrang mahaa kaal kaalang||17||
He is the Most Effulgent of all lights and Supreme Conflagration of all fires. He is the Supreme Spell of all incantations and Supreme embodiment of Death over all such powers.17.
​ 
*Page 97, Line 7* 

   (Chapter one Vachitar Natak Sahib)
  So last thing here we come across is about two quotes he gives.



ਸਿਰੰ *ਮਾਲ* ਰਾਜੰ ॥ ਲਖੇ ਰੁਦ੍ਰ ਲਾਜੰ ॥
Sirang maal raajang|| Lakhe Rudra laajang||
The rosary of heads glorified his neck, seeing which the god Shiva feels abashed.
​ Line 3 
  (Vachitar Natak Sahib verse 22, chapter 1)

  Here we could interpret this like this way also.

  On head/brain(Siran) occupation(Maal) and reigning(Rajan).
  Ie Akal’s control over head.
  Seeing(Lakhai) Rudra(Anger/fear) Lajan.
  When Akal over takes the brain of human, fear anger etc are ashamed ie , they are defeated.

ਘਮੱਕਿ ਘੁੰਘਰੰ ਸੁਰੰ ॥ ਨਵੰ ਨਿਨਾਦ ਨੂਪਰੰ ॥
Ghamakk(i) ghungharangsurang|| Navang ninaad nooparang||
There is the jingling sound of the small bells and a new sound emanates from the *anklets*.
​ Line 12


ਪ੍ਰਜ੍ਵਾਲ ਬਿੱਜੁਲੰ ਜ੍ਵਲੰ ॥ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਪਰਮ ਨਿਰਮਲੰ ॥੫੨॥
Prajvaal bijjulang jvalang|| Pavitra param nirmalang||52||
There is light like the blazing fire and lightning, which is highly holy and pure.52.
​ Line 13
  (Vachitar Natak Sahib , Chapter 1)

  It is shameful that brother gave only first two lines and not the next two lines. Here while we think of God, we hear Anahad(un beaten ) Naad(Sound) of such type in mind ,has been told. 

  But brother is busy conceiving a strange animal in mind. If Mind is rabid with dualism, refuge to God is must.

  So the last part and which is the most important.

  We find these quotes from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.


(੪੨੭-੧੧, ਆਸਾ, ਮ ੩)
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਏਕੁ ਹੈ *ਬਹੁ* *ਬਿਧ*ਿ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਈ ॥
anthar baahar eaek hai bahu bidhh srisatt oupaaee ||
Inwardly and outwardly, there is only the One Lord. He has created the world, with its many varieties.
​ *11* Aasaa Guru Amar Das
  (Ang 427)

  Creation and Destruction is done by God many times also as per Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.



(੧੨੩੬-੮, ਸਾਰਗ, ਮ ੫)
ਅਨਿਕ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਦਿਨਸ ਅਰੁ ਰਾਤਿ ॥
anik jugaadh dhinas ar raath ||
Many ages, days and nights.
​ *8* Sarang Guru Arjan Dev


(੧੨੩੬-੮, ਸਾਰਗ, ਮ ੫)
ਅਨਿਕ *ਪਰਲਉ* ਅਨਿਕ ਉਤਪਾਤਿ ॥
anik paralo anik outhapaath ||
Many apocalypses, many creations.
​ *8* Sarang Guru Arjan Dev


(੧੨੩੬-੯, ਸਾਰਗ, ਮ ੫)
ਅਨਿਕ ਜੀਅ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਮਾਹਿ ॥
anik jeea jaa kae grih maahi ||
Many beings are in His home.
​ *9* Sarang Guru Arjan Dev


(੧੨੩੬-੯, ਸਾਰਗ, ਮ ੫)
ਰਮਤ ਰਾਮ ਪੂਰਨ ਸ੍ਰਬ ਠਾਂਇ ॥੯॥
ramath raam pooran srab thaane ||9||
The Lord is perfectly pervading all places. ||9||
​ *9* Sarang Guru Arjan Dev 
  (Ang 1236)


(੧੧੫੬-੧੮, ਭੈਰਉ, ਮ ੫)
ਕੋਟਿ ਪਰਲਉ *ਓਪ*ਤਿ ਨਿਮਖ ਮਾਹਿ ॥
kott paralo oupath nimakh maahi ||
He creates and destroys millions, in an instant.
​ *18* Bhaira-o Guru Arjan Dev
  (Ang 1156)

  So there could be more quotes which talks of God creating and destroying many a times.

  So as per Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, there are many ways by which creation occurs. Only a few are given below.



(੩-੧੬, ਜਪੁ, ਮ ੧)
ਕੀਤਾ ਪਸਾਉ ਏਕੋ *ਕਵਾ*ਉ ॥
keethaa pasaao eaeko kavaao ||
You created the vast expanse of the Universe with One Word!
​ *16* Jap Guru Nanak Dev


(੩-੧੭, ਜਪੁ, ਮ ੧)
ਤਿਸ ਤੇ ਹੋਏ ਲਖ ਦਰੀਆਉ ॥
this thae hoeae lakh dhareeaao ||
Hundreds of thousands of rivers began to flow.
​ *17* Jap Guru Nanak Dev
  (Ang 3)
(੭-੨, ਜਪੁ, ਮ ੧)
ਏਕਾ ਮਾਈ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਵਿਆਈ ਤਿਨਿ ਚੇਲੇ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥
eaekaa maaee jugath viaaee thin chaelae paravaan ||
The One Divine Mother conceived and gave birth to the three deities.
​ *2* Jap Guru Nanak Dev


(੭-੨, ਜਪੁ, ਮ ੧)
ਇਕੁ *ਸੰਸਾਰੀ* ਇਕੁ ਭੰਡਾਰੀ ਇਕੁ ਲਾਏ ਦੀਬਾਣੁ ॥
eik sansaaree eik bhanddaaree eik laaeae dheebaan ||
One, the Creator of the World; One, the Sustainer; and One, the Destroyer.
​ *2* Jap Guru Nanak Dev
  (Ang 7)
(੧੩੪੯-੧੯, ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ, ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)
ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ ॥
prabhaathee ||
Prabhaatee:
​ *18* null null


(੧੩੪੯-੧੯, ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ, ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)
ਅਵਲਿ ਅਲਹ ਨੂਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਕੇ ਸਭ ਬੰਦੇ ॥
aval aleh noor oupaaeiaa kudharath kae sabh bandhae ||
First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings.
​ *19* Parbhaatee Saint Kabir


(੧੩੪੯-੧੯, ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ, ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)
ਏਕ *ਨੂਰ* *ਤੇ* ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਉਪਜਿਆ ਕਉਨ ਭਲੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਦੇ ॥੧॥
eaek noor thae sabh jag oupajiaa koun bhalae ko mandhae ||1||
From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1||
​ *19* Parbhaatee Saint Kabir 
  (Ang 1349)


(੧੯-੧੮, ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ, ਮ ੧)
*ਸਾਚੇ* *ਤੇ* ਪਵਨਾ ਭਇਆ ਪਵਨੈ ਤੇ ਜਲੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
saachae thae pavanaa bhaeiaa pavanai thae jal hoe ||
From the True Lord came the air, and from the air came water.
​ *18* Sriraag Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੯-੧੮, ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ, ਮ ੧)
ਜਲ ਤੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਸਾਜਿਆ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮੋਇ ॥
jal thae thribhavan saajiaa ghatt ghatt joth samoe ||
From water, He created the three worlds; in each and every heart He has infused His Light.
​ *18* Sriraag Guru Nanak Dev
  (Ang 19)(there is a similar verse in Shrimad Bhagavat Purana, but in series we find mention of sky and fire also).

  So as we see the proof that from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji also, there are many ways Akal created the creation.

  As per Puranas, there is another way of creation, with cosmic egg. Term Brahmand means cosmic/matter in egg/and only.

  Puranas say that it is by Vishnus, while Gurbani says that this act of Hiranygarbha is from Akal.

  So such mythological creation attributed to Vishnu is mentioned in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.


(੮੩੯-੪, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, ਮ ੧)
ਆਪੇ ਸਚੁ ਕੀਆ ਕਰ ਜੋੜਿ ॥
aapae sach keeaa kar jorr ||
The True Lord Himself created the universe, joining the elements together.
​ *4* Bilaaval Guru Nanak Dev


(੮੩੯-੫, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, ਮ ੧)
*ਅੰਡਜ* ਫੋੜਿ ਜੋੜਿ ਵਿਛੋੜਿ ॥
anddaj forr jorr vishhorr ||
Breaking the cosmic egg, He united, and separated.
​ *5* Bilaaval Guru Nanak Dev


(੮੩੯-੫, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, ਮ ੧)
ਧਰਤਿ ਅਕਾਸੁ ਕੀਏ ਬੈਸਣ ਕਉ ਥਾਉ ॥
dhharath akaas keeeae baisan ko thhaao ||
He made the earth and the sky into places to live.
​ *5* Bilaaval Guru Nanak Dev


(੮੩੯-੫, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, ਮ ੧)
ਰਾਤਿ ਦਿਨੰਤੁ ਕੀਏ ਭਉ ਭਾਉ ॥
raath dhinanth keeeae bho bhaao ||
He created day and night, fear and love.
​ *5* Bilaaval Guru Nanak Dev


(੮੩੯-੫, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, ਮ ੧)
ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਏ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖਣਹਾਰਾ ॥
jin keeeae kar vaekhanehaaraa ||
The One who created the Creation, also watches over it.
​ *5* Bilaaval Guru Nanak Dev


(੮੩੯-੬, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, ਮ ੧)
ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰਾ ॥੩॥
avar n dhoojaa sirajanehaaraa ||3||
There is no other Creator Lord. ||3||
​ *6* Bilaaval Guru Nanak Dev
  (Ang 839)

  So if some mythological act of Vishnu could be attributed to Akal as in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, why not another in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji ?

  Should again jokes be cracked about egg as about wax were done by brother ?
  Then he says that term Kal as once used for death in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, could not be used God at other places. Does it written in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, that something written in them for some meaning could not be used for other meaning somewhere else ?

  If yes then term Singh for Sikhs needs to be abandoned as that is used for an oppressor in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.


(੧੨੮੮-੭, ਵਾਰ-ਮਲਾਰ, ਮ ੧)
ਰਾਜੇ *ਸੀਹ* ਮੁਕਦਮ ਕੁਤੇ ॥
raajae seeh mukadham kuthae ||
The kings are tigers, and their officials are dogs;
​ *7* Malaar Guru Nanak Dev

(੧੨੮੮-੭, ਵਾਰ-ਮਲਾਰ, ਮ ੧)
ਜਾਇ ਜਗਾਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਬੈਠੇ ਸੁਤੇ ॥
jaae jagaaeinih baithae suthae ||
they go out and awaken the sleeping people to harass them.
​ *7* Malaar Guru Nanak Dev 

  (Ang 1288)

  Here tiger needs to be replaced by lion.
  Likewise with forum name of “the Khalsa Fauj”, will he accept the name Khalsa as told by Bhagat Kabeer Ji, much before the Tenth Master baptized the Five beloved.

  Were the Khalsa on Bhagat Ji’s time same as Khalsa say like brother himself.

(੬੫੫-੧, ਸੋਰਠਿ, ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)
ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਜਨ ਭਏ *ਖਾਲਸ*ੇ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਭਗਤਿ ਜਿਹ ਜਾਨੀ ॥੪॥੩॥
kahu kabeer jan bheae khaalasae praem bhagath jih jaanee ||4||3||
Says Kabeer, those humble people become pure - they become Khalsa - who know the Lord's loving devotional worship. ||4||3||
​ *1* Sorith Saint Kabir
  (Ang 655)

  In the same line we tell about Death of Mahakal attributed to Sikh God above so as in case of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, we find term Ram referred to lord Rama in some context while in most it is for all  pervading lord. So in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji, term Kal is referred for Death and for God also depending upon the context.

  Thing does not ends here. With Guru, we get eternity or salvation. So death does not comes to us. So Guru is death of Death, So is called Kal. Guru here is not the mortal but eternal. So Brother has not read Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji also correctly.

  Have a look.


(੧੪੦੩-੧੯, ਸਵਈਏ ਮਹਲੇ ਚਉਥੇ ਕੇ, ਗਯੰਦ)
ਮਾਨਹਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾਦਿਕ ਰੁਦ੍ਰਾਦਿਕ *ਕਾਲ* *ਕਾ* ਕਾਲੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਜਚਨਾ ॥
maanehi brehamaadhik rudhraadhik kaal kaa kaal niranjan jachanaa ||
Brahmas and Shivas respect and obey You. O Death of death, Formless Lord, I beg of You.
​ *19* Sava-yay (praise of Guru Ram Das Ga-yand
  (Ang 1403)

  Now a few more quotes from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji,


(੯੪-੯, ਮਾਝ, ਮ ੪)
ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥
maajh mehalaa 4 ||
Maajh, Fourth Mehl:
​ *9* null null


(੯੪-੯, ਮਾਝ, ਮ ੪)
*ਮਧੁ*ਸੂਦਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਤਨ ਪ੍ਰਾਨਾ ॥
madhhusoodhan maerae man than praanaa ||
The Lord is my mind, body and breath of life.
​ *9* Maajh Guru Ram Das


(੯੪-੧੦, ਮਾਝ, ਮ ੪)
ਹਉ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਦੂਜਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਜਾਨਾ ॥
ho har bin dhoojaa avar n jaanaa ||
I do not know any other than the Lord.
​ *10* Maajh Guru Ram Das 
  (Ang 94)

  If some one asks that why Akal is called Madhusudan ?

(੨੨੪-੧੭, ਗਉੜੀ, ਮ ੧)
ਸਹਸਬਾਹੁ *ਮਧੁ* ਕੀਟ ਮਹਿਖਾਸਾ ॥
sehasabaahu madhh keett mehikhaasaa ||
The Lord killed the thousand-armed Arjun, and the demons Madhu-keetab and Meh-khaasaa.
​ *17* Gaurhee Guru Nanak Dev


(੨੨੪-੧੮, ਗਉੜੀ, ਮ ੧)
ਹਰਣਾਖਸੁ ਲੇ ਨਖਹੁ ਬਿਧਾਸਾ ॥
haranaakhas lae nakhahu bidhhaasaa ||
He seized Harnaakhash and tore him apart with his nails.
​ *18* Gaurhee Guru Nanak Dev


(੨੨੪-੧੮, ਗਉੜੀ, ਮ ੧)
ਦੈਤ ਸੰਘਾਰੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਅਭਿਆਸਾ ॥੬॥
dhaith sanghaarae bin bhagath abhiaasaa ||6||
The demons were slain; they did not practice devotional worship. ||6||
​ *18* Gaurhee Guru Nanak Dev
  (Ang 224)

  If some one asks who were Madhu Keet killed By God ?



(੫੮੦-੯, ਵਡਹੰਸੁ ਦਖਣੀ, ਮ ੧)
ਤੁਧੁ ਸਿਰਜੀ *ਮੇਦ*ਨੀ ਦੁਖੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਦੇਵਣਹਾਰੋ ॥
thudhh sirajee maedhanee dhukh sukh dhaevanehaaro ||
You created the Universe; You are the Giver of pain and pleasure.
​ *9* Vadhans Dakhnee Guru Nanak Dev
  (Ang 580)

(੮੮੩-੧੨, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ, ਮ ੫)
ਨਹ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ਜਲੁ ਨਹੀ ਪਵਨਾ ਤਹ ਅਕਾਰੁ ਨਹੀ *ਮੇਦ*ਨੀ ॥
neh siv sakathee jal nehee pavanaa theh akaar nehee maedhanee ||
There is no Shiva or Shakti, no energy or matter, no water or wind, no world of form there,
​ *12* Raamkalee Guru Arjan Dev
  (Ang 883)

  So if some one asks what is Medini ?

  Should we refer to Hindu Puranas and find Vishnu as primal “God” ?

  Or should we follow the Tenth Master, who has made God of Sikhs, as the only true God, in history and in mythology ,overriding the demigods of Hindus and Holy men from Semitic side too. From the creation God of Sikh is told to be supreme and it explained in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji.

  It is shameful on our part anyway to carry out misinterpretation of text onto the Tenth Master.
​  After this there are self boosting, challenges, poems and forecasts by brother. They only prove the level of spirituality in him. Only one thing is proven here. People against the verse onto Tenth Master need to improve the spirituality. Intellect how so ever it may be strong but in front of spirituality fails. Akal Bless.


----------



## Astroboy (Jul 15, 2009)

Vijaydeep Singh Ji,

You've come up with a remarkable translation of the verses. 
However, I feel that there should be a smoother continuity of the verses; 
probably the translations have been limited by the author's understanding. 

Give me some time to come up with a closer understanding of the terms used 
in the verses and we can take this discussion a step further.:star:


----------



## Astroboy (Jul 15, 2009)

I would like to start with the sargun saroop of creation. 
As it is said, in order to understand the creation of the universe (macrocosm), 
one only needs to view the human structure (the microcosm) and we will find the many clues herein within ourselves.

Gurbani states:-

Page 754, Line 7
ਕਾਇਆ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਵਸੈ ਖੰਡ ਮੰਡਲ ਪਾਤਾਲਾ ॥
काइआ अंदरि सभु किछु वसै खंड मंडल पाताला ॥
Kā▫i▫ā anḏar sabẖ kicẖẖ vasai kẖand mandal pāṯālā.
Everything is within the body - the continents, worlds and nether regions.
Guru Amar Das   -  view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Our scholars who translated the verses have omitted many original words by translating it as "God" 
but it helps to understand the Hierarchy of the God Worlds better if the original words are retained. 
As an example, see the following shabad and the translation:*
* 
ਸਿਰ  ਮਸ੍ਤਕ  ਰਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਾ  ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੰ  ਹਸ੍ਤ  ਕਾਯਾ  ਰਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਾ  ਪਰਮੇਸ੍ਵਰਹ  ॥ 
सिर मस्तक रख्या पारब्रहमं हस्त काया रख्या परमेस्वरह ॥ 
Sir masṯak rakẖ▫yā pārbrahmaŉ hasṯ kā▫yā rakẖ▫yā parmesvarėh. 
The Supreme Lord God has procted my head and forehead; the Transcendent Lord has protected my hands and body. 

ਆਤਮ  ਰਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਾ  ਗੋਪਾਲ  ਸੁਆਮੀ  ਧਨ  ਚਰਣ  ਰਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਾ  ਜਗਦੀਸ੍ਵਰਹ  ॥ 
आतम रख्या गोपाल सुआमी धन चरण रख्या जगदीस्वरह ॥ 
Āṯam rakẖ▫yā gopāl su▫āmī ḏẖan cẖaraṇ rakẖ▫yā jagḏīsvarėh. 
God, my Lord and Master, has saved my soul; the Lord of the Universe has saved my wealth and feet. 

ਸਰਬ  ਰਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਾ  ਗੁਰ  ਦਯਾਲਹ  ਭੈ  ਦੂਖ  ਬਿਨਾਸਨਹ  ॥ 
सरब रख्या गुर दयालह भै दूख बिनासनह ॥ 
Sarab rakẖ▫yā gur ḏa▫yālėh bẖai ḏūkẖ bināsnėh. 
The Merciful Guru has protected everything, and destroyed my fear and suffering. 

ਭਗਤਿ  ਵਛਲ  ਅਨਾਥ  ਨਾਥੇ  ਸਰਣਿ  ਨਾਨਕ  ਪੁਰਖ  ਅਚੁਤਹ  ॥੫੨॥ 
भगति वछल अनाथ नाथे सरणि नानक पुरख अचुतह ॥५२॥ 
Bẖagaṯ vacẖẖal anāth nāthe saraṇ Nānak purakẖ acẖuṯėh. ||52|| 
God is the Lover of His devotees, the Master of the masterless. 
Nanak has entered the Sanctuary of the Imperishable Primal Lord God. ||52|| 

The given translation  here for Parbrahm  is God,
The translation of Parmeshwar is also God,
Gopal Swami = God
Jagdeeshware = God

So how are we going to understand the difference between Brahm and Parbrahm,
Kal and Mahakal, Running Ear Wax and the sound of running water, etc, etc.

In order to understand Gurbani deeper, we need to delve deeper into the Sanatan Dharam first. 

*This is how I understand the verses starting from:*



> ਚੌਪਈ ॥
> Chaupaoo||
> CHAUPAI
> 
> ...


Sach Khand is part of the Nirgun Planes of Existence. 
Where the Lord of this Pure Spirit Plane is called SATNAM.

This is how Omkar comes into play. Omkar is the Lord of the Brahmand plane. 
If you were to see any Sanatan God World Hierarchy Chart you will understand where I am coming from.
Anything below Sach Khand comes under the influence of Maya which starts from Brahmand. 
Mahakal is also known as Sohang or Etheric plane or sub-conscious plane or Intuition Plane. 
Many other names are attributed to this plane like Parbhahm. 
What happens here is that Sach Khand's energy is converted into three currents;
the positive, the negative and the neutral. With the presence of the neutral energy, 
this plane does not belong to the Maya worlds; it is an in-between of Maya and Sach Khand. 

This is where the creative force of Mahakal takes effect in creating the planes below. 
Mahakal created the lower worlds in stages. Brahmand, Andh and Pind. 

 From the scientist's viewpoint, Brahmand is the dark void which contains the visible universe. 
The Andh is that part which is the gaseous form of the created universe and the Pind 
is the cooled down gases that have well formed star systems.

Omkar is not the same as Ek Oangkar.
Omkar is the lower energy which re-transforms the higher vibrations into co{censored}r vibrations 
(transforms the 3 diverging currents into 2 diverging currents).
 This creates duality in the World of Omkar. 

The logic is SATNAM creates the KAL; the KAL in turn creates
Omkar - the world where Maya begins to take shape. The Bani or sound current differs on each plane. 

More Later....


----------



## Astroboy (Jul 15, 2009)

Kal can mean Time and it can mean Negative force.
Negative force is not necessarily a destructive force but a dualistic one. 
One cannot do without the other. Like one cannot swim without the opposite possibility of drowning. 

Mahakal has also been used in Dasam Granth like in:

Maha Kaal Rakhvaar Hamaro
Maha Loh Mein Kinkar Tharo


----------



## Astroboy (Jul 15, 2009)

> Mahakal is also known as Sohang or Etheric plane or sub-conscious plane or Intuition Plane.
> Many other names are attributed to this plane like Parbhahm.


Now please pay close attention to the first tuk:

ਸਿਰ  ਮਸ੍ਤਕ  ਰਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਾ  ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੰ  ਹਸ੍ਤ  ਕਾਯਾ  ਰਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਾ  ਪਰਮੇਸ੍ਵਰਹ  ॥ 
सिर मस्तक रख्या पारब्रहमं हस्त काया रख्या परमेस्वरह ॥ 
Sir masṯak rakẖ▫yā pārbrahmaŉ hasṯ kā▫yā rakẖ▫yā parmesvarėh. 
The Supreme Lord God has procted my head and forehead; the Transcendent Lord has protected my hands and body. 

*This is the microcosm of the Hierarchy as explained in the previous post.

Lord Parbrahm created the sub-conscious mind which is physically represented by the head and forhead.

The Body in general denotes the physical counter part - which is placed by a lower manifestation of the creative energy known as Parmeswar.

Let's look at the next tuk:* 
ਆਤਮ  ਰਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਾ  ਗੋਪਾਲ  ਸੁਆਮੀ  ਧਨ  ਚਰਣ  ਰਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਾ  ਜਗਦੀਸ੍ਵਰਹ  ॥ 
आतम रख्या गोपाल सुआमी धन चरण रख्या जगदीस्वरह ॥ 
Āṯam rakẖ▫yā gopāl su▫āmī ḏẖan cẖaraṇ rakẖ▫yā jagḏīsvarėh. 
God, my Lord and Master, has saved my soul; the Lord of the Universe has saved my wealth and feet. 

The Soul is protected by our Lord Husband Gopal. And the Lowest Lord is in charge of the feet and material wealth. He is known as Lord Jagdeeshwar.


----------



## Astroboy (Jul 15, 2009)

> ਸਰਬ  ਰਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਾ  ਗੁਰ  ਦਯਾਲਹ  ਭੈ  ਦੂਖ  ਬਿਨਾਸਨਹ  ॥
> सरब रख्या गुर दयालह भै दूख बिनासनह ॥
> Sarab rakẖ▫yā gur ḏa▫yālėh bẖai ḏūkẖ bināsnėh.
> The Merciful Guru has protected everything, and destroyed my fear and suffering.
> ...


The True Guru who is our companion has access to all the planes right up to 
Sach Khand and unfolds our consciousness by taking us stage by stage to the
Sanctuary of the Imperishable beyond the influence of Maya.


----------



## Astroboy (Jul 15, 2009)

> ਘਮੱਕਿ ਘੁੰਘਰੰ ਸੁਰੰ ॥ ਨਵੰ ਨਿਨਾਦ ਨੂਪਰੰ ॥
> *Ghamakk(i) ghungharangsurang|| Navang ninaad nooparang||*
> There is the jingling sound of the small bells and a new sound emanates from the *anklets*.
> Line 12
> ...


This probably denotes the world of 
Lower Mind (Memory faculty) - Tinking of Bells is the sound heard by Soul visiting this region.
 How to Visit ? Meditate, Simran, Naam Japo.



> Should we refer to Hindu Puranas and find Vishnu as primal “God” ?


Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva belong to the Omkar region of the mind world. 
They are not free from re-incarnation, cycle of birth and death.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੈ  ਬੇਦ  ਬਾਣੀ  ਪਰਗਾਸੀ  ਮਾਇਆ  ਮੋਹ  ਪਸਾਰਾ  ॥ 
ब्रहमै बेद बाणी परगासी माइआ मोह पसारा ॥ 
Barahmai beḏ baṇī pargāsī mā▫i▫ā moh pasārā. 
Through Brahma, the hymns of the Vedas were revealed, but the love of Maya spread. 

ਮਹਾਦੇਉ  ਗਿਆਨੀ  ਵਰਤੈ  ਘਰਿ  ਆਪਣੈ  ਤਾਮਸੁ  ਬਹੁਤੁ  ਅਹੰਕਾਰਾ  ॥੨॥ 
महादेउ गिआनी वरतै घरि आपणै तामसु बहुतु अहंकारा ॥२॥ 
Mahāḏe▫o gi▫ānī varṯai gẖar āpṇai ṯāmas bahuṯ ahaŉkārā. ||2|| 
The wise one, Shiva, remains absorbed in himself, but he is 
engrossed in dark passions and excessive egotism. ||2|| 

ਕਿਸਨੁ  ਸਦਾ  ਅਵਤਾਰੀ  ਰੂਧਾ  ਕਿਤੁ  ਲਗਿ  ਤਰੈ  ਸੰਸਾਰਾ  ॥ 
किसनु सदा अवतारी रूधा कितु लगि तरै संसारा ॥ 
Kisan saḏā avṯārī rūḏẖā kiṯ lag ṯarai sansārā. 
Vishnu is always busy reincarnating himself - who will save the world? 

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਗਿਆਨਿ  ਰਤੇ  ਜੁਗ  ਅੰਤਰਿ  ਚੂਕੈ  ਮੋਹ  ਗੁਬਾਰਾ  ॥੩॥ 
गुरमुखि गिआनि रते जुग अंतरि चूकै मोह गुबारा ॥३॥ 
Gurmukẖ gi▫ān raṯe jug anṯar cẖūkai moh gubārā. ||3|| 
The Gurmukhs are imbued with spiritual wisdom in this age; 
they are rid of the darkness of emotional attachment. ||3|| 

Ang 559 Line 15


----------



## Astroboy (Jul 15, 2009)

ਸੇਖਨਾਗ ਪਰ ਸੋਇਬੋ ਕਰੈ ॥ ਜਗ ਤਹਿ ਸੇਖਸਾਇ ਉਚਰੈ ॥੧੨॥
*Sekhnaag par soebo karai|| Jag tah(i) Sekhsaae uchrai||12||*
He slept on Sheshanaga, therefore he was called the master of Shesha.12.

*Page 114, Line 10*


ਏਕ ਸ੍ਰਵਣ ਤੇ ਮੈਲ ਨਿਕਾਰਾ ॥ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਮਧੁ ਕੀਟਭ ਤਨ ਧਾਰਾ ॥
*Ek sravan te mail nikaaraa|| Taa te Madhu kootabh tan dhaaraa||*
Out of the secretion from one of his ears, Madhu and Kaitabh came into being.

*Page 114, Line 11*


ਦੁਤੀਯ ਕਾਨ ਤੇ ਮੈਲੁ ਨਿਕਾਰੀ ॥ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਭਈ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਇਹ ਸਾਰੀ ॥੧੩॥
*Dutooya kaan te mail(u) nikaaroo|| Taa te bhaoo sristtee ih saaroo||13||*
And from the secretion of the other ear, the whole world materialized.13.

*Page 114, Line 12*


ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਕਾਲ ਬਹੁਰ ਬਧ ਕਰਾ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਮੋਦ ਸਮੁੰਦ ਮੋ ਪਰਾ ॥
*Tin ko kaal bahur badh karaa|| Tin ko med samund mo paraa||*
After some period, the Lord killed the demons (Madhu and Kaitabh). Their marrow flowed into the ocean.

*Page 114, Line 13*


ਚਿਕਨ ਤਾਸ ਜਲ ਪਰ ਤਿਰ ਰਹੀ ॥ ਮੇਧਾ ਨਾਮ ਤਬਹਿ ਤੇ ਕਹੀ ॥੧੪॥
*Chikan taas jal par tir rahoo|| Medhaa naam tabah(i) te kahoo||14||*
The greasy substance floated thereon, because of that medital (marrow), the earth was called medha (or medani).14.

*Page 114, Line 14*

ਸਾਧ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਜਗਤ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥
*Saadh karam je purakh kamaavai|| Naam devtaa jagat kahaavai||*
Because of virtuous actions, a purusha (person) is known as devta (god)

*Page 115, Line 1*


ਕੁਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਕਰਹੀਂ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਅਸੁਰ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਸਭ ਧਰਹੀਂ ॥੧੫॥
 *Kukrit karam je jag mai kar-hoon|| Naam asur tin ko sabh dhar-hoon||15||*
And because of evil actions, he is known as asura (demon).15.

*Page 115, Line 2*


ਬਰੁ ਬਿਥਾਰ ਕਹਾ ਲਗੈ ਬਖਾਨੀਅਤ ॥ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਢਨ ਤੇ ਅਤਿ ਡਰੁ ਮਾਨੀਅਤ ॥
*Bahu bithaar kahaa lagai bakhaanooat|| Granth ba?han te at(i) ?ar(u) maanooat||*
If everything is described in detail, it is feared that the description will become voluminous.



> Verse 14 has intentionally not included by brother, so it given here.
> The God/Kal destroyed then again/again killed them. Their Medh/body part full of light things/fat dropped into ocean.
> From that grease/ lighter part floated on water/fluid (in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji we have Creator->Gas->Fluid->Solid Ang 19).
> Medha is named since then being called(to Earth).


*

Age of the Dinosaurs and Volcanic eruptions?  Probably Yes.* 
*I can inteprete this as when the earth cooled down, the dinosaurs died and were buried. 
The greasy oil from their bodies began to flow into the ocean (as crude oil) ? 
Just a thought!!!*

Garuda has always been the sworn enemy of snakes and nagas.
The archetypal legend of the enmity that exists between birds of prey 
and serpents occurs across a wide spectrum of transcultural mythologies. 



*See the verses that follow :




			Page 115, Line 3
		
Click to expand...

*


> ਤਿਨ ਤੇ ਹੋਤ ਬਹੁਤ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਆਏ ॥ ਦੱਛ ਪ੍ਰਜਾਪਤਿ ਜਿਨ ਉਪਜਾਏ ॥੧੬॥
> *Tin te hot bahut nrip aae|| Dachchh Prajaapat(i) jin upjaae||16||*
> There were many kings after Kaldhuj like Daksha Prajapati etc. 16.
> 
> ...


The last line talks about Garuda.

Garuda 'the devourer' is the mythical 'Lord of birds' in both the Hindu and Buddhist traditions.
In the Hindu Puranic legends, Garuda is the son of Kashyapa and Vinata. 
He is said to have emerged, fully grown, from an egg, after incubating for five hundred years.


----------



## Astroboy (Jul 16, 2009)

Here's an overview of the Sargun  Sris-tee:

LORD SATNAM (or Sach Khand Plane) creates the Manifested worlds below. 
Satnam or Akaal Purukh or Sat Purush is timeless, beyong the cycle of transmigration. 
Our Mool Mantar is a description of HIM.

Just below Sach Khand is MAHAKAL or PARBRAHM or SOHANG who is the Lord Current/Subtle energy which 
fashioned the sub-conscious minds and the UNIVERSAL MIND - which acts like home to all individual minds. 
This is the 'place' of Mansarovar or the shimmering Lake of emormous light (which is so fine in vibrations) filters out 
even the mind vibrations. No thoughts can pass through this Mansarovar Lake for in order to partake from the Water of Life 
and see the true light of God, one needs to cleanse one's self from all impurities. When you bathe in the Lake of Mansarovar, 
you emerge as a SWAN. 

View shabad for inspiration :

ਸੋ  ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡਿ  ਪਿੰਡਿ  ਸੋ  ਜਾਨੁ  ॥ 
सो ब्रहमंडि पिंडि सो जानु ॥ 
So barahmand pind so jān. 
Know that He is in the universe, and in the body as well. 

ਮਾਨ  ਸਰੋਵਰਿ  ਕਰਿ  ਇਸਨਾਨੁ  ॥ 
मान सरोवरि करि इसनानु ॥ 
Mān sarovar kar isnān. 
Take your cleansing bath in the Mansarovar Lake. 

ਸੋਹੰ  ਸੋ  ਜਾ  ਕਉ  ਹੈ  ਜਾਪ  ॥ 
सोहं सो जा कउ है जाप ॥ 
Sohaŉ so jā ka▫o hai jāp. 
Chant "Sohan" - "He is me. 

ਜਾ  ਕਉ  ਲਿਪਤ  ਨ  ਹੋਇ  ਪੁੰਨ  ਅਰੁ  ਪਾਪ  ॥੬॥ 
जा कउ लिपत न होइ पुंन अरु पाप ॥६॥ 
Jā ka▫o lipaṯ na ho▫e punn ar pāp. ||6|| 
He is not affected by either virtue or vice. ||6||  (Ang 1165)


----------



## Astroboy (Jul 16, 2009)

Ang 121

ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੩  ॥
माझ महला ३ ॥
Mājẖ mėhlā 3.
Maajh, Third Mehl:

 ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਊਜਲੁ ਊਜਲ ਹੰਸਾ  ॥
गोविंदु ऊजलु ऊजल हंसा ॥
Govinḏ ūjal ūjal hansā.
The Lord of the Universe is radiant, and radiant are His soul-swans.

 ਮਨੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਨਸਾ  ॥
मनु बाणी निरमल मेरी मनसा ॥
Man baṇī nirmal merī mansā.
Their minds and their speech are immaculate; they are my hope and ideal.

 ਮਨਿ ਊਜਲ ਸਦਾ ਮੁਖ ਸੋਹਹਿ ਅਤਿ ਊਜਲ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵਣਿਆ  ॥੧॥
मनि ऊजल सदा मुख सोहहि अति ऊजल नामु धिआवणिआ ॥१॥
Man ūjal saḏā mukẖ sohėh aṯ ūjal nām ḏẖi▫āvaṇi▫ā. ||1||
Their minds are radiant, and their faces are always beautiful; 
they meditate on the most radiant Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||1||


----------



## Astroboy (Jul 16, 2009)

Page 227, Line 17
ਪਰਮ ਹੰਸੁ ਸਚੁ ਜੋਤਿ ਅਪਾਰ ॥
परम हंसु सचु जोति अपार ॥
Param hans sacẖ joṯ apār.
The pure swan-souls see the True Light of the Infinite Lord.
Guru Nanak Dev   -  view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Jul 16, 2009)

Gurfateh

Singh Sahib Ji,

Das is very tiny person with no intellect or spirituality level as the great Sikhs have here. If some mistakes are done then all Sangat may forgive this novice dog (das).


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Jul 17, 2009)

Vijaydeep, that was a long read. I don't have time to respons to your entertaining reply. I just want to know one thing though. How in the world did you translate says naag as asteroids or did Kawar Ajeet Singh do that?


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Jul 17, 2009)

*byd purwn swsqR AwnMqw gIq kibq n gwvaugo ] AKMf mMfl inrMkwr mih Anhd bynu bjwvaugo ] 1] bYrwgI rwmih gwvaugo ]** {gurU gRMQ swihb jI, pMnw 972}*
*Baid Puraan Saastar Aanantaa Giit Kabit Na Gaavogo || Akhand Mandal Nirankaar Mahe Anhad Bayn Bjaavaogo || Bairaagee Raamhe Gaavogo ||*
*There are many songs and poetic verses from Vedas, Puraans and Saastars but I do not sing them. In the everlasting realm of Formless Master, I play the flute of the Anhad shabad, the vibration of God’s praise. I sing God’s praises while remaining detached from the influences of worldly affairs.*


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Jul 17, 2009)

I am just posting the original article below for everyone to read:

ਕੰਨ ਦੀ ਮੈਲ ਤੋ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ: ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੀ ਬਦੌਲਤ​ਹਰਮਨਜੀਤ ਸਿੰਘ ਅਕਾਲੀ (ਕੈਨੇਡਾ)​ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਮਹਾਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਬਰਾਬਰ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਹੋ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ। ਇਹ ਇੱਕ ਸੋਚੀ ਸਮਜੀ ਚਾਲ ਅਧੀਨ ਹੋ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ ਪਰ ਸਿਖ ਕੌਮ ਘੂਕ ਸੁੱਤੀ ਪਈ ਹੈ। ਸੁੱਤੀ ਹੀ ਨਹੀ ਬਲਕਿ ਬੇਹੋਸ਼ ਹੋ ਗਈ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਸਾਬਤ ਕਰਨ ਉਪਰ ਸਾਰਾ ਜੋਰ ਲਾਈ ਜਾ ਰਹੀ ਹੈ। ਇਹ ਸਭ ਅੰਧੀ ਸ਼ਰਧਾ ਅਧੀਨ ਹੋ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ ਕਿਉਕਿ ਗਿਆਨ ਦੀ ਅਤੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਉਪਰ ਵਿਸ਼ਵਾਸ਼ ਦੀ ਘਾਟ ਹੈ।
ਅਬ ਮੈ ਕਹੋ ਸੁ ਅਪਨੀ ਕਥਾ। ਸੋਢੀ ਬੰਸ ਉਪਜਿਆ ਜਥਾ। ੮। ਦੋਹਰਾ। ਪ੍ਰਥਮ ਕਥਾ ਸੰਛੇਪ ਤੇ ਕਹੋ ਸੁ ਹਿਤ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ। ਬਹੁਰਿ ਬਡੋ ਬਿਸਥਾਰ ਕੈ ਕਹਿਹੋ ਸਭੈ ਸੁਨਾਇ। ੯। {ਨਾਟਕ ੧੨}
ਅਰਥ
ਹੁਣ ਮੈ ਸਿਰਫ ਆਪਣੀ ਕਥਾ ਬਿਆਨ ਕਰਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਸੋਢੀ ਬੰਸ ਕਿਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਉਪਜਿਆ। ੮। ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਮੈ ਆਪਣੇ ਮਨ ਚਿਤ ਨਾਲ ਸੰਖੇਪ ਵਿੱਚ ਕਥਾ ਕਹਾਂਗਾ। ਬਾਅਦ ਵਿੱਚ ਮੈ ਇਹ ਕਥਾ ਵਿਸਥਾਰ ਨਾਲ ਸਭ ਨੂੰ ਸੁਣਾਵਾਂਗਾ। ੯।
ਉਪਰ ਲਿਖੀਆਂ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੀਆਂ ਤੁਕਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਲਿਖਾਰੀ ਇਹ ਬਿਆਨ ਕਰ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਆਪਣੀ ਕਥਾ ਹੈ।
ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਕਾਲ ਜਬ ਕਰਾ ਪਸਾਰਾ। ਓਅੰਕਾਰ ਤੇ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਰਾ। ਕਾਲਸੈਨ ਪ੍ਰਥਮੈ ਭਇਓ ਭੂਪਾ। ਅਧਿਕ ਅਤੁਲ ਬਲਿ ਰੂਪ ਅਨੂਪਾ। ੧੦। ਕਾਲਕੇਤੁ ਦੂਸਰ ਭੂਅ ਭਇਓ। ਕ੍ਰੂਰਬਰਸ ਤੀਸਰ ਜਗਿ ਠਯੋ। ਕਾਲਧੁਜ ਚਤੁਰਥ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਸੋਹੈ। ਜਿਹ ਤੇ ਭਯੋ ਜਗਤ ਸਭ ਕੋ ਹੈ। ੧੧। ਸਹਸਰਾਛ ਜਾ ਕੋ ਸੁਭ ਸੋਹੈ। ਸਹਸ ਪਾਦ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਤਨਿ ਮੋਹੈ। ਸੇਖ ਨਾਗ ਪਰ ਸੋਇਬੋ ਕਰੈ। ਜਗ ਤਿਹ ਸੇਖ ਸਾਇ ਉਚਰੈ। ੧੨। ਏਕ ਸਰਵਣ ਤੇ ਮੈਲ ਨਿਕਾਰਾ। ਤਾ ਤੇ ਮਧੂ ਕੀਟਭ ਤਨ ਧਾਰਾ। ਦੁਤੀਆ ਕਾਨ ਤੇ ਮੈਲ ਨਿਕਾਰੀ। ਤਾ ਤੇ ਭਈ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਇਹ ਸਾਰੀ। ੧੩। {ਨਾਟਕ ੧੨}

ਅਰਥ
ਜਦੋ ਕਾਲ ਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਪਸਾਰਾ ਕੀਤਾ ਤਾਂ ਓਅੰਕਾਰ ਤੋ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ ਪੈਦਾ ਕੀਤੀ। ਕਾਲ ਸੈਨ ਸਭ ਤੋ ਪਹਿਲਾ ਰਾਜਾ ਹੋਇਆ। ਉਹ ਬਹੁਤ ਤਾਕਤ, ਤੁਲਣਾ ਨਾਂ ਕੀਤੇ ਜਾਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਅਤੇ ਬਹੁਤ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਸੀ। ੧੦। ਕਾਲ ਕੇਤ ਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਧਰਤੀ ਦਾ ਦੂਜਾ ਰਾਜਾ ਸੀ। ਕਰੂਰ ਬਰਸ ਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਜਗਤ ਦਾ ਤੀਜਾ ਰਾਜਾ ਹੋਇਆ। ਕਾਲ ਧੁਜ ਚੌਥਾ ਰਾਜਾ ਬੈਠਾ। ਜਿਸ ਤੋ ਸਾਰਾ ਜਗਤ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੋਇਆ। ੧੧। (ਸਾਰਾ ਜਗਤ ਉਸ ਨੇ ਪੈਦਾ ਕੀਤਾ) ਜਿਸ ਦੀਆਂ ਹਜਾਰ ਅੱਖਾਂ ਸੋਭਾ ਦਿੰਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ ਅਤੇ ਜਿਸ ਦੇ ਸਰੀਰ ਉਪਰ ਹਜਾਰ ਪੈਰ ਮੌਜੂਦ ਹਨ। ਜੋ ਸ਼ੇਸ਼ਨਾਗ ਦੇ ਉਪਰ ਸੌਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜਗਤ ਦੇ ਲੋਕ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਸੇਖ ਸਾਇ ਜਾਂ ਸ਼ੇਸ਼ਸ਼ਈ ਕਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ। ੧੨। (ਜਦੋ ਉਸ ਨੇ) ਇੱਕ ਕੰਨ ਤੋ ਮੈਲ ਨੂੰ ਕੱਢਿਆ ਤਾਂ ਮਧੂ ਅਤੇ ਕੀਟਭ ਦੈਂਤਾ ਨੇ ਆਪਣਾ ਸਰੀਰ ਧਾਰਨ ਕੀਤਾ। ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਸਾਰੀ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ ਬਣੀ। ੧੩। (ਫਿਰ ਜਦੋ ਉਸ ਨੇ) ਦੂਜੇ ਕੰਨ ਤੋ ਮੈਲ ਕੱਢੀ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਸਾਰੀ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੋਈ। ੧੩।
ਕਵੀ ਕਹਿ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਮੈ ਸੰਖੇਪ ਵਿੱਚ ਕਥਾ ਬਿਆਨ ਕਰਾਂਗਾ ਅਤੇ ਫਿਰ ਵਿਸਥਾਰ ਨਾਲ ਕਹਾਂਗਾ। ਇਸ ਕਥਾ ਦਾ ਸੰਖੇਪ ਰੂਪ ਹੈ "ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਕਾਲ ਜਬ ਕਰਾ ਪਸਾਰਾ। ਓਅੰਕਾਰ ਤੇ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਰਾ।" ਅਤੇ ਬਾਕੀ ਦੀਆ ਤੁਕਾਂ ਇਸ ਦਾ ਵਿਸਥਾਰ ਰੂਪ ਹੈ। ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੱਸ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਕਾਲ ਨੇ ਜਦੋ ਪਸਾਰਾ ਕੀਤਾ ਤਾਂ ਓਅੰਕਾਰ ਤੋ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ ਪੈਦਾ ਕੀਤੀ। ਇਥੇ ਇਹ ਭੁਲੇਖਾ ਨਹੀ ਖਾਣਾ ਕਿ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ ਕਰ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ। ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦਾ ਓਅੰਕਾਰ ਮਾਹਕਾਲ ਹੈ। ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨੂੰ ਓਅੰਕਾਰ ਭਾਵ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਮੰਨਦੇ ਹਨ ਪਰ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਹੈ। ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਬਾਰੇ ਇਹ ਕਹਿ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ: -
ਤੂੰ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਅਗੰਮੁ ਹੈ ਆਪਿ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਤੀ॥ ਰੰਗ ਪਰੰਗ ਉਪਾਰਜਨਾ ਬਹੁ ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਭਾਤੀ॥ ਤੂੰ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਜਿਨਿ ਉਪਾਈਐ ਸਭੁ ਖੇਲੁ ਤੁਮਾਤੀ॥ ਇਕਿ ਆਵਹਿ ਇਕਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਉਠਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਮਰਿ ਜਾਤੀ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੧੩੮}
ਅਰਥ
ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ! ਤੂੰ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰ ਹੈ, ਚਿੰਤਾ ਗੰਮ ਤੋ ਪਰੇ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਤੂੰ ਆਪ ਸਾਰੀ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ ਪੈਦਾ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ। ਇਹ ਰਚਨਾ, ਰੰਗ ਤਮਾਸ਼ੇ, ਤੂੰ ਕਈ ਰੰਗਾਂ ਦੇ, ਕਈ ਕਿਸਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਕਈ ਪਰਕਾਰ ਦੇ ਬਣਾਏ ਹੈ। ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਬਨਾਉਣ ਦੇ ਭੇਤ ਨੂੰ ਤੂੰ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਜਾਣਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਨੇ ਖੇਲ (ਕੁਦਰਤ ਦਾ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਮਾ) ਬਣਾਇਆ ਹੈ। ਇਸ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਕਈ ਜੀਵ ਆ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ ਅਤੇ ਕਈ ਜਾ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ ਪਰ ਜੋ ਨਾਮ ਤੋ ਬਿਨਾ ਹਨ, ਉਹ ਆਤਮਕ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਮਰ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ।
ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕਾਲ, ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਹੈ। ਪਰ ਇਹ ਹੈ ਕੌਣ? ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਬਿਆਨ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ; ਹੇਠਾਂ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੀਆਂ ਤੁਕਾਂ ਪੜੋ।
ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਰਖਵਾਰ ਹਮਾਰੋ। ਮਹਾ ਲੋਹ ਮੈ ਕਿੰਕਰ ਥਾਰੋ। ਅਪੁਨਾ ਜਾਨਿ ਕਰੋ ਰਖਵਾਰ। ਬਾਹ ਗਹੇ ਕੀ ਲਾਜ ਬਿਚਾਰ। ੪੩੫। {ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਅਵਤਾਰ, ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ}
ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਾਲ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਉਸਤਤਿ। {ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ, ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ}
ਸਿਰੰ ਮਾਲ ਰਾਜੰ। ਲਖੇ ਰੁਦ੍ਰ ਲਾਜੰ। ਸੁਭੇ ਚਾਰ ਚਿਤ੍ਰੰ। ਪਰਮੰ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰੰ। ੨੨। {ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ, ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ}
ਅਰਥ
ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਦੇ ਗਲ ਵਿੱਚ ਸਿਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਦੇਖ ਕੇ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਨੂੰ ਵੀ ਸ਼ਰਮ ਆਉਂਦੀ ਹੈ। ਉਸ ਦੀਆਂ ਚਾਰ ਬਾਹਾਂ ਹਨ ਜੋ ਬਹੁਤ ਹੀ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਹਨ। ੨੨।
ਘਮਕਿ ਘੁੰਘਰੂ ਸੁਰੰ। ਨਵੰ ਨਨਾਦ ਨੂਪਰੰ। …। ੫੨। {ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ, ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ}
ਅਰਥ
ਉਸ ਦੇ ਪੈਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਘੁੰਘਰੂ ਬਹੁਤ ਛਣਕਦੇ ਹਨ। ਉਸ ਦੀਆਂ ਝਾਂਝਰਾਂ ਵਿਚੋ ਬਹੁਤ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਧੁੰਨ ਨਿਕਲਦੀ ਹੈ।
ਸੋ ਇਹੋ ਜਿਹਾ ਹੈ ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਜੋ ਇਸ ਅਖੌਤੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ ਨੂੰ ਸਾਜਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਹੈ। ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਦਾ ਸਰੂਪ ਪੜ ਕੇ ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਇੱਕ ਨਚਾਰ ਜਿਹਾ ਊਟ ਪਟਾਂਗ ਕਿਸਮ ਦਾ ਜੰਗਲੀ ਜੀਵ ਹੀ ਨਜਰ ਆਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਦੇ ਸਰੂਪ ਨੂੰ ਬਿਆਨ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਇਹ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਾਲ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਉਸਤਤਿ ਦੇ ਸਿਰਲੇਖ ਹੇਠਾਂ ੧੦੧ ਛੰਦ ਹਨ। ਰੱਬ ਵਾਲੀ ਤਾਂ ਕਾਲ ਵਿੱਚ ਕੋਈ ਗੱਲ ਹੀ ਨਹੀ ਹੈ। ਬਾਕੀ ਕਥਾ ਵੀ ਪਾਠਕ ਜਨ ਆਪ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਹੀ ਲੈਣ ਕਿ ਇਸ ਅਖੌਤੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਦੇ ਚੇਲੇ ਨੇ ਕੰਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਮੈਲ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ ਕਿਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਪੈਦਾ ਕੀਤੀ। ਕੀ ਕਦੇ ਕੰਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਮੈਲ ਵਿਚੋ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੋ ਸਕਦੀ ਹੈ? ਕੀ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਇਹ ਕਹਿੰਦੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ ਕੰਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਮੈਲ ਤੋ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੋਈ? ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਕੀ ਕਹਿੰਦੀ ਹੈ? ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਤਾ ਕੋਈ ਦੇਖਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਸਰੂਪ ਹੀ ਨਹੀ। ਉਹ ਤਾਂ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਕੋਈ ਸ਼ਕਲ ਬਿਆਨ ਨਹੀ ਕੀਤੀ ਜਾ ਸਕਦੀ। ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦਾ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ ਸਾਜਨਾ ਬਾਰੇ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੇਠਾਂ ਪੜੋ: -
ਸਾਚੇ ਤੇ ਪਵਨਾ ਭਇਆ ਪਵਨੈ ਤੇ ਜਲੁ ਹੋਇ॥ ਜਲ ਤੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਸਾਜਿਆ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮੋਇ॥ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਮੈਲਾ ਨਾ ਥੀਐ ਸਬਦਿ ਰਤੇ ਪਤਿ ਹੋਇ॥ 3॥ (ਪੰਨਾ 19-20)
ਅਰਥ
ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਵਿੱਚ ਰੰਗੇ ਹੋਏ ਨੂੰ (ਲੋਕ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਵਿਚ) ਆਦਰ ਮਿਲਦਾ ਹੈ ਉਹ ਸਦਾ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਮੈਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਲੱਗਦੀ। (ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਇਹ ਯਕੀਨ ਬਣਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ) ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਤੋਂ (ਸੂਖਮ ਤੱਤ) ਪਵਣ ਬਣਿਆ, ਪਵਣ ਤੋਂ ਜਲ ਹੋਂਦ ਵਿੱਚ ਆਇਆ, ਜਲ ਤੋਂ ਸਾਰਾ ਜਗਤ ਰਚਿਆ ਗਿਆ, (ਤੇ, ਇਸ ਰਚੇ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਦੇ) ਹਰੇਕ ਘਟ ਵਿੱਚ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਈ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ। 3.
ਤੂੰ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਅਗੰਮੁ ਹੈ ਆਪਿ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਤੀ॥ ਰੰਗ ਪਰੰਗ ਉਪਾਰਜਨਾ ਬਹੁ ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਭਾਤੀ॥ ਤੂੰ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਜਿਨਿ ਉਪਾਈਐ ਸਭੁ ਖੇਲੁ ਤੁਮਾਤੀ॥ ਇਕਿ ਆਵਹਿ ਇਕਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਉਠਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਮਰਿ ਜਾਤੀ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੧੩੮}
ਅਰਥ
ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ! ਤੂੰ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰ ਹੈ, ਚਿੰਤਾ ਗੰਮ ਤੋ ਪਰੇ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਤੂੰ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਸਾਰੀ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ ਪੈਦਾ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ। ਇਹ ਰਚਨਾ, ਰੰਗ ਤਮਾਸ਼ੇ, ਤੂੰ ਕਈ ਰੰਗਾਂ ਦੇ, ਕਈ ਕਿਸਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਕਈ ਪਰਕਾਰ ਦੇ ਬਣਾਏ ਹੈ। ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਬਨਾਉਣ ਦੇ ਭੇਤ ਨੂੰ ਤੂੰ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਜਾਣਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਨੇ ਖੇਲ (ਕੁਦਰਤ ਦਾ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਮਾ) ਬਣਾਇਆ ਹੈ। ਇਸ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਕਈ ਜੀਵ ਆ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ ਅਤੇ ਕਈ ਜਾ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ ਪਰ ਜੋ ਨਾਮ ਤੋ ਬਿਨਾ ਹਨ, ਉਹ ਆਤਮਕ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਮਰ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ।
ਹੁਣ ਇਹ ਸਵਾਲ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਕੀ ਕਾਲ ਸਬਦ ਰੱਬ ਲਈ ਨਹੀ ਵਰਤਿਆ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ? ਕਾਲ ਦਾ ਸਬੰਧ ਸਮੇ ਜਾਂ ਮੌਤ ਨਾਲ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਰੱਬ ਸਮੇ ਜਾਂ ਮੌਤ ਦਾ ਪਾਬੰਧ ਨਹੀ ਹੈ। ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ ਧਿਆਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਦਾ ਵੀ ਕਾਲ ਨਾਲ ਕੋਈ ਸਬੰਧ ਨਹੀ ਰਹਿ ਜਾਂਦਾ। ਨਾਲੇ ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੋਈ ਜੀਵ ਜੰਤ ਨਹੀ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਨੱਚੇ, ਝਾਂਝਰਾਂ ਪਾਵੇ, ਘੁੰਘਰੂ ਛਣਕਾਵੇ ਜਾਂ ਗਲ ਵਿੱਚ ਮਾਲਾ ਪਾਈ ਫਿਰੇ। ਇਹ ਤਾਂ ਸਾਕਤ ਮਤ ਵਾਲਿਆ ਦਾ ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਸਾਰਾ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਉਸਤਤਿ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ।
ਸੰਤ ਤੁਮਾਰੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਤਿਨ ਕਉ ਕਾਲ ਨ ਖਾਤੇ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੫੨੯}
ਅਰਥ
ਹੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ! ਜਿਹੜੇ ਤੇਰੀ ਬੰਦਗੀ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਸੇਵਕ ਹਨ, ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਕਦੇ ਵੀ ਕਾਲ (ਆਤਮਕ ਮੌਤ) ਨਹੀ ਖਾਂਦੀ।
ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵਿਐ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਜਾਇ॥ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਜਨਮੈ ਕਾਲੁ ਨ ਖਾਇ॥ ੫॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੨੨੯}
ਅਰਥ
ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰਨ ਨਾਲ ਭਾਵ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਉਪਦੇਸ਼ ਉਪਰ ਚੱਲਣ ਨਾਲ ਸਾਰੇ ਭਰਮ (ਸੂਤਕੁ) ਚਲੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ। ਉਹ ਮਨੁਖ ਫਿਰ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਚੱਕਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਨਹੀ ਆਉਂਦਾ ਅਤੇ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਕਾਲ ਨਹੀ ਖਾਂਦਾ ਭਾਵ ਮੌਤ ਦਾ ਡਰ ਨਹੀ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ।
ਸੋ ਇਹੋ ਜਹੇ ਹੋਰ ਵੀ ਬਹੁਤ ਸਬਦ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਹਨ ਜੋ ਸਿਖ ਧਰਮ ਦਾ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਸਪਸਟ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਹਰੇਕ ਗੁਰੂ ਕੇ ਸਿਖ ਦਾ ਫਰਜ ਬਣਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੀ ਅਸਲੀਅਤ ਨੂੰ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਪਹੁਚਾਇਆ ਜਾ ਸਕੇ ਤਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖ ਸਿਧੇ ਰਸਤੇ ਪੈ ਕੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਜੀਵਨ ਜਿਉਣ ਅਤੇ ਸ਼ਰਾਬੀ ਨਸ਼ਈ ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਤੋ ਛੁਟਕਾਰਾ ਪਾਉਣ। ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਵਲ ਪਿਠ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਅਤੇ ਸਿਖ ਧਰਮ ਨੂੰ ਤਿਲਾਂਜਲੀ ਦੇ ਕੇ ਸ਼ਰਾਬ ਪੀਣੀ ਹੈ, ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਮੁਬਾਰਕ ਹੈ।
ਸੋ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥੀਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਇਹ ਹੀ ਸੁਝਾਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਜਾਂ ਤਾਂ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੇ ਹੱਕ ਵਿੱਚ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰ ਬੰਦ ਕਰਨ ਅਤੇ ਜਾਂ ਫਿਰ ਮੈਦਾਨ ਵਿੱਚ ਬਹਿਸ ਲਈ ਨਿਤਰਨ। ਸਿਖ ਸੰਗਤਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਮਰਾਹ ਕਰਕੇ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਮਗਰ ਲਾਉਣਾ ਬੰਦ ਕਰਨ। ਜਿੱਤ ਅੰਤ ਵਿੱਚ ਸਚ ਦੀ ਹੀ ਹੋਣੀ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੀ ਸਿਖ ਧਰਮ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਛੁੱਟੀ ਹੋਣੀ ਹੀ ਹੋਣੀ ਹੈ। ਚਾਹੇ ਅੱਜ ਕਰ ਲਉ ਜਾਂ 50 ਸਾਲ ਨੂੰ ਕਰ ਲਉ ਪਰ ਸ਼ੁਭ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਨ ਵਿੱਚ ਢਿਲ ਨਹੀ ਕਰਨੀ ਚਾਹੀਦੀ।


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 11, 2009)

Gurfateh
Brother TKF Ji,

You have asked how could Naag could be astroid.

Another meaning of Naag is Elephant, another is hill, another is stone so asteroid, which is stone from the space could be called the naag.

Likewise


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 11, 2009)

Gurfateh

Kindly read and understand this from Ang 294


ਬੇਦ  ਪੁਰਾਨ  ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ  ਮਹਿ  ਦੇਖੁ  ॥ 
बेद पुरान सिम्रिति महि देखु ॥ 
Beḏ purān simriṯ mėh ḏekẖ. 
See Him in the Vedas, the Puraanas and the Simritees. 

ਸਸੀਅਰ  ਸੂਰ  ਨਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਤ੍ਰ  ਮਹਿ  ਏਕੁ  ॥ 
ससीअर सूर नख्यत्र महि एकु ॥ 
Sasī▫ar sūr nakẖ▫yaṯar mėh ek. 
In the moon, the sun and the stars, He is the One. 

ਬਾਣੀ  ਪ੍ਰਭ  ਕੀ  ਸਭੁ  ਕੋ  ਬੋਲੈ  ॥ 
बाणी प्रभ की सभु को बोलै ॥ 
Baṇī parabẖ kī sabẖ ko bolai. 
The Bani of God's Word is spoken by everyone. 

ਆਪਿ  ਅਡੋਲੁ  ਨ  ਕਬਹੂ  ਡੋਲੈ  ॥ 
आपि अडोलु न कबहू डोलै ॥ 
Āp adol na kabhū dolai. 
He Himself is unwavering - He never wavers. 

ਸਰਬ  ਕਲਾ  ਕਰਿ  ਖੇਲੈ  ਖੇਲ  ॥ 
सरब कला करि खेलै खेल ॥ 
Sarab kalā kar kẖelai kẖel. 
With absolute power, He plays His play. 

ਮੋਲਿ  ਨ  ਪਾਈਐ  ਗੁਣਹ  ਅਮੋਲ  ॥ 
मोलि न पाईऐ गुणह अमोल ॥ 
Mol na pā▫ī▫ai guṇah amol. 
His value cannot be estimated; His virtues are invaluable. 

ਸਰਬ  ਜੋਤਿ  ਮਹਿ  ਜਾ  ਕੀ  ਜੋਤਿ  ॥ 
सरब जोति महि जा की जोति ॥ 
Sarab joṯ mėh jā kī joṯ. 
In all light, is His Light. 

ਧਾਰਿ  ਰਹਿਓ  ਸੁਆਮੀ  ਓਤਿ  ਪੋਤਿ  ॥ 
धारि रहिओ सुआमी ओति पोति ॥ 
Ḏẖār rahi▫o su▫āmī oṯ poṯ. 
The Lord and Master supports the weave of the fabric of the universe. 

ਗੁਰ  ਪਰਸਾਦਿ  ਭਰਮ  ਕਾ  ਨਾਸੁ  ॥ 
गुर परसादि भरम का नासु ॥ 
Gur parsāḏ bẖaram kā nās. 
By Guru's Grace, doubt is dispelled. 

ਨਾਨਕ  ਤਿਨ  ਮਹਿ  ਏਹੁ  ਬਿਸਾਸੁ  ॥੩॥ 
नानक तिन महि एहु बिसासु ॥३॥ 
Nānak ṯin mėh ehu bisās. ||3|| 
O Nanak, this faith is firmly implanted within. ||3||


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Oct 11, 2009)

Viajydeep, I don't have time to discuss your posts online, bring live talk to Toronto. We will discuss poet shyam's work there. You are never going to convince us with your flawed logics and arths. You can waste as much time trying to declare poet Shyam as 10th Nanak as you want but truth will remain truth. Logica fallacies don't hold any value.


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 11, 2009)

Gurfateh
Dear Brother,

Das requested you to provide your address.Which you have not emailed as yet.

*Admin note: We specifically request that members not send private emais to one another on open threads. Use the SPN private message feature to have this conversation. Narayanjot Kaur*


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Oct 11, 2009)

Why should I email you my address? I don't trust devi bhagats one bit. *deletion.*


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 11, 2009)

Gurfateh
Devi Bhagat!

Well now when a poor Sikh who knows only Akal is accused of being Devi Bhagat? Why Tejwant Singh Ji are not saying anything in here ? Does not it pains ?

Devi also means devine in Sanskrit. Trust has to be on Akal and not humans as humans are false.

Brother, you can take address of Das from Father of all missionaries in Lajpat Nagar delhi, as Das is one of you only.


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 11, 2009)

Gurfateh
Devi Bhagat!

Well now when a poor Sikh who knows only Akal is accused of being Devi Bhagat? Why Tejwant Singh Ji are not saying anything in here ? Does not it pains ?

Devi also means devine in Sanskrit. Trust has to be on Akal and not humans as humans are false.

Brother, you can take address of Das from Father of all missionaries in Lajpat Nagar delhi, as Das is one of you only.


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Oct 11, 2009)

If you sing praises of devi, you are a devi bhagat. Simple and clear as that. I don't sing any praises of kala afgana yet I get labelled kala afgani for no reason.

First of all, I am not a kala, I am brown.
Secondly, I am not an afgan, I a Punjabi.

Someone who reads devi joo kee ustat get angry when he gets labelled devi bhagat. THen he says devi means divine. Deep down, he knows who devi is refferred to and got mad because he knows the link.


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Oct 11, 2009)

If someone loves to read devi joo kee ustat, they should man up and admit they are devi bhagats. Props to Hindus for admitting truth. Those who are confused about being Hindu and Sikh, what can be said about such people?


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 11, 2009)

Gurfateh

Daer Brother,

Glory to the devine one, is meant with devi Ju Ki Ustat. In latin term Dei is used for God.

Did Guru sung Devi's praise when Guru is termed as Parbati Mai(Japu Ji Sahib) or Self is Kavla and self is Kant(Ang 1190) ?

Some  time people are of some other color from above and some other color from inside dear brother.

So

ਪੰਨਾ 534, ਸਤਰ 4
ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਿਧ ਮੁਨਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰਾ ਮੋਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਹੀ ਦਰਸਾਰੇ ॥੧॥
ब्रहम महेस सिध मुनि इंद्रा मोहि ठाकुर ही दरसारे ॥१॥
Barahm mahes siḏẖ mun inḏrā mohi ṯẖākur hī ḏarsāre. ||1||
Brahma, Shiva, the Siddhas, the silent sages and Indra - I seek only the Blessed Vision of my Lord and Master's Darshan. ||1||
ਮਃ 5   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Is this some Hindu Bhagat of Vishnu.


As per Vishnu Puran,Padam Puran, Makandey Puran and Shrimad Bhagvat Purana, there is Vishnu who is Nirankar,Oankar, Takhur, Gobind, Ram living in all and taking form of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiv.

Let us check your understanding of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, how is that Vishnu differnt than our God of Sikhs ?

This is the logic Mr Ambala used to attack the part of Shri Dasham Granth Sahib.
[/SIZE]


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Oct 11, 2009)

What does the above quote have to do with Mahakal being God or earth being created from wax? WHy post unrelated quotes?

You have read too many puraans so you are confused.

Puraans also say Vishnu has 4 arms, etc. etc. which gives the distinction between God of Sikhs and God of puraans. Same is the case with Mahakaal. That is why devi joo kee ustat readers can't tell difference between hingula, pingula and Akaal Moorat, Nirankaar.


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 11, 2009)

Gurfateh
What was the reason for  calling a fellow Sikh as Devi Bhagat ? Answer was given to that wrong assertion dear brother.


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Oct 11, 2009)

What wrong assertion? Was I wrong to call you a devi bhagat? You are not a devi bhagat? You don't read devi joo kee ustat with devotion?


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 17, 2009)

Gurfateh
Dear Brother,
Four Armed term is there in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji also.

ਪੰਨਾ 324, ਸਤਰ 13
ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਨ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
चतुराई न चतुरभुजु पाईऐ ॥ रहाउ ॥
Cẖaṯurā▫ī na cẖaṯurbẖuj pā▫ī▫ai. Rahā▫o.
Through cleverness, the four-armed Lord is not obtained. ||Pause||
ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

It does not mean at all as you have asserted ie to provide food to four direction. If that Bhuj has to be taken as Bhunj, then it will mean as consumer of four direction.

Term Bhunch is used for that in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji while for arm we have term Bhuj.

Lastly kindly apprriciate that nomenculture of upper caste Vaishnavs, attributed to Vishnu is used for attributing the qualities of true God of Sikhs as kirtam nam or name based upoon deeds.

Why cannot the outcaste Shakta's(both Vam Margi/twisted path and Dakshin Margi/right path) could be preached sprituality by letting them know that name of thier demigods are attributes of True Gods of Sikhs.

Kindly read Braham Kavach, which comes at last of Chandi Charitar the second. It is not in Markandey Purana and it will remove the doubts.Akal Bless.


----------



## spnadmin (Oct 17, 2009)

vijaydeep Singh said:


> Gurfateh
> Dear Brother,
> Four Armed term is there in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji also.
> 
> ...




vijaydeepsingh ji

In my opinion, the above post sounds very much like offering a sop to vendantist sympathiizers in a purely political sense of the word "sympathisizers." Not for one minute do I believe that you intend your comments to be taken literally as a way of showing broad and inclusive sentiments toward Hindu beliefs. This sounds almost like frustration and anger at Sikhs who will not bend in your direction -- all covered up with the sound of compassion for "outcastes" and "Shata and Dakshin Margi." This is Arya Samaaj talk. Pure and simple!


----------



## Astroboy (Oct 17, 2009)

I think Vijaydeep Singh Ji has gone very deep in his research of Gurbani and wants to find the missing links. But however, an archeological based fact finding might be frustrating because of ambiguity of words and also in SGGS there are many languages used. Therefore, the only source of fact finding remains in old publications of articles which have become home of the silverfish.


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Oct 17, 2009)

Vijaydeep, once again you are making false statements. Read Mahan Kosh, Chattar Bhuj means provider of food. Do you get your food from Vishnu of Purans? Why are you trying to find Vishnu from Purans anyways? Looks like you have read too many shasters and Purans, this is causing major problems for you. That is why Gurbani said not to sing shastars and Purans. Gurbani says:

ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਆਨੰਤਾ ਗੀਤ ਕਬਿਤ ਨ ਗਾਵਉਗੋ ॥ ਅਖੰਡ ਮੰਡਲ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਮਹਿ ਅਨਹਦ ਬੇਨੁ ਬਜਾਵਉਗੋ ॥ ੧॥ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਰਾਮਹਿ ਗਾਵਉਗੋ ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੯੭੨} 
*Baid Puraan Saastar Aanantaa Giit Kabit Na Gaavogo || Akhand Mandal Nirankaar Mahe Anhad Bayn Bjaavaogo || Bairaagee Raamhe Gaavogo ||*
*There are many songs and poetic verses from Vedas, Puraans and Saastars but I do not sing them. In the everlasting realm of Formless Master, I play the flute of the Anhad shabad, the vibration of God’s praise. I sing God’s praises while remaining detached from the influences of worldly affairs.*

*Looks like devi bhagats are also vishnu bhagats.*


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 17, 2009)

Gurfateh


Narayanjot Kaur said:


> vijaydeepsingh ji
> 
> In my opinion, the above post sounds very much like offering a sop to vendantist sympathiizers in a purely political sense of the word "sympathisizers." Not for one minute do I believe that you intend your comments to be taken literally as a way of showing broad and inclusive sentiments toward Hindu beliefs. This sounds almost like frustration and anger at Sikhs who will not bend in your direction -- all covered up with the sound of compassion for "outcastes" and "Shata and Dakshin Margi." This is Arya Samaaj talk. Pure and simple!


Dear Sister,

When we talk via logic, we are actually falling in Arya Samji talk as their Nayay(justification by logic) is being used by Sikh. while das talked of two ways of Shaktas. There another reason in here.Das has proved it via qoutes in answering the doubts raised by Mr Ambala Ji.

In Shaktas, there is no text where Vam Margi and Dakshin Margi vocbulary is used at all. It is only by Tenth Master. Reason, to unite mankind in one, the way both Islamic and Vaishnavite vocabulary is used to prove the principle of Sanjhiwalta or commonlity of God in all.Be it Muslim, Be it Vaishnavite or Be it Shakta.

Arya Samaj is worst enemy of Vedanta.Das will not elaborate about it much other then there mere gaining the knowledge of God in all is target while in Sikhs, we have to realise it too.Arya samaji Ramdev recently called Vedanta and Adi Sankara as the reason for India's slavery.

As a Sikh dealing with Hindus, das finds them making such comments as "poem of Nanak" were in praise of Vishnu or Tenth Master worshipped goddess and such things. They are given the befitting reply.

coming to assertion that Shri Dasam Granth Sahib will bring Hindu texts into Gurudwara. It should be noted that in the relgious houses of Bandai, Sindhi, Nanak Panthis, Udasis, we find Hindu books with Shri Guru Granth Sahib and Shri Dasham Granth Sahib is not there at all.

Whereever Shri Dasham Granth Sahib is there no Hindu book could intrude us.

Just two examples of opposition of Vedas in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji are given and there are many more.
ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਨ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਪਾਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਹਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥੮੬੩॥ 
Sinmrit(i) Saasta Bed sabhai bahu bhed kahai ham ek naa jaanyo|| Sriasipaan kripaa tumrikar(i) main a kahyo sabh tohe bakhaanyo||863||
The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas describe several mysteries of yours, but I do not agree with any of them. O sword-wielder God! This all has been described by Thy Grace, what power can I have to write all this?.863.(End of Ram Avtar)

Also see Charitropakhyan 266.

For Vedas and Samritis
1.   		Page134 Line 10 
 				 ਜੇ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਨ ਕੇ ਭਏ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ॥ ਤਿਨਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੀ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥
  				 Je Sinmritan ke bhae anuraagoo|| Tin(i) tin(i) kriaa Brahm koo tiaagoo||
 				 				 All those who became followers of these smritis, they abandoned the path of the Lord.
	   		  		  		 		  		  		2.   		Page134 Line 14 
 				 ਜਿਨ ਮਤ ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬਨ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੇ ਭਏ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ॥
  				 Jin mat Bed Kateban tiaagoo|| Paarbrahm ke bhae anuraagoo||
 				 				 Those who abandoned the path of the Vedas and Katebs, they became the devotees of the Lord.

From Vachitar Natak Sahib.

Lastly coming to defination given by Nabha Sahib, as per him too Bhuj is not to do with food provider.

It is more to do with what is called Father Bethal give me Arm/support.

*
ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜਸੰ. ... ਵਿ- ਚਾਰ ਬਾਹਾਂ ਵਾਲਾ। ੨. ਸੰਗਾ- ਵਿਨੁ, ਜਿਸ ਦੀਆਂ ਚਾਰ ਬਾਹਾਂ ਹਨ। ੩. ਕਰਤਾਰ, ਜੋ ਚਾਰ ਦਿਸ਼ਾ ਨੂੰ ਭੁਜ (ਪਾਲਨ) ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ. ''ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਨ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜ ਪਾਈਐ.'' (ਗਉ ਕਬੀਰ)*Defination three, does Bhuj/rearing/support to four direction.

It has nothing to do with let other's eating at all but to consuming of all.

See the defination of Bhuj
*ਭੁਜਦੇਖੋ, ਭੁੰਚ। ੨. ਸੰ. ਸੰਗਾ- ਜਿਸ ਨਾਲ ਭੋਜਨ ਕਰੀਏ ਬਾਂਹ ਭੁਜਾ. ''ਭੁਜ ਬਲਬੀਰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰ.'' (ਗਉ ਮ ੫) ੩. ਹੱਥ। ੪. ਬੰਬਈ ਹਾਤੇ ਕੱਛ ਰਿਆਸਤ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਧਾਨ ਨਗਰ. ਦੇਖੋ, ਕੱਛ ੨। ੫. ਹਾਥੀ ਦੀ ਸੁੰਡ। ੬. ਸ਼ਾਖਾ, ਟਾਹਣੀ। ੭. ਭੋਜਪਤ੍ਰ ਬਿਰਛ। ੮. ਦੋ ਸੰਖਾ (ਗਿਣਤੀ) ਬੋਧਕ. ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਬਾਹਾਂ ਦੋ ਹੁੰਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ.*
Then see Bhunch
*ਭੁੰਚ

ਭੁੰਚੁਸੰ. ... ਭੁਜ. ਧਾ- ਟੇਢਾ ਹੋਣਾ, ਪਾਲਨਾ, ਝੁਕਣਾ, ਖਾਣਾ, ਭਣਕਰਨਾ, ਭੋਗਣਾ, ਆਨਦ ਲੈਣਾ. ''ਮਨਇਛੇ ਫਲ ਭੁੰਚਿ ਤੂ.'' (ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮ ੫)
ਭੁੰਚੁ''ਕਮਾਵਦਿਆ ਸੁਖ ਭੁੰਚੁ.'' (ਮ ੫. ਵਾਰ ਗੂਜ ੨)
ਭੁੰਚੁ''ਸੁਖ ਭੁੰਚਹੁ, ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ.'' (ਸੋਰ ਮ ੫)
ਭੁੰਚੁ''ਰਸ ਕਸ ਸਭ ਭੁੰਚਹ.'' (ਆਸਾ ਮ ੫)
ਭੁੰਚੁ''ਭੁਚੰਤੇ ਮਹੀਪਤੇ.'' (ਸਹਸ ਮ ੫)
ਭੁੰਚੁ''ਜੇ ਕੋ ਖਾਵੈ, ਜੇ ਕੋ ਭੁੰਚੈ.'' (ਮੁੰਦਾਵਣੀ ਮ ੫)
ਭੁੰਚਹੁ

ਭੁੰਚਾਦੇਖੋ, ਭੁੰਚ.
ਭੁੰਚਾਵਉ

ਭੁੰਚਿਆ

ਭੁੰਚੈਦੇਖੋ, ਭੁੰਚ.*
It has nowhere being told to be providing food.

Same way term Bhuj or Banh is used in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji.

Das hopes that matter is clear by now.


----------



## spnadmin (Oct 17, 2009)

vijaydeep ji

You may be right - vedanta may be the enemy of arya samaaj! That is even more grist for my mill -- because I really do not think that this entire discussion really is about any holy or divine whatsoever. The great disrespect to our Gurus in my opinion is that they are being used in a complicated debate over the authenticity of texts  to advance a political agenda -- once again. It is no different from putting Guru Arjan Dev on a hot plate and then marching him into a river -- recipe for sudden death.  (Have you ever seen a cook take the skin off a tomato?) No different.


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 17, 2009)

Gurfateh
Dear Sister,

Das agrees to you and will be careful in future. Here in India, leftism is dealt at social level also, which oppose the liberal outlook of the society.

In the case of spirituality, its intrusion is not very good.

Say in hindu Nepal, Maoist once made their own priest to Hindu Temple, who siphoned off the temple funds for guirillas /rebels.

Large number of Indian district are ubder thier control.

Areas with good Sikh influence are out of bound for them.


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Oct 17, 2009)

> coming to assertion that Shri Dasam Granth Sahib will bring Hindu texts into Gurudwara. It should be noted that in the relgious houses of Bandai, Sindhi, Nanak Panthis, Udasis, we find Hindu books with Shri Guru Granth Sahib and Shri Dasham Granth Sahib is not there at all.
> 
> Whereever Shri Dasham Granth Sahib is there no Hindu book could intrude us.


 
They don't need Dasam Granth because they already have the original Hindu texts, instead of translations. A Sikh only needs Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Not translations from Markandya Puran or Bhavat Puran or whatever other texts were used to create Dasam Granth. I don't understand your love for arya smajis and videnta. It doesn't matter what they believe or what they don't believe. Focus of Sikh is what Guru Granth Sahib Ji says. Guru Granth Sahib Ji says Ika Bani Ik Gur Ikko Shabad Veechar. No Dasam Granth or Sarabloh Granth. Guru Gobind Singh Ji was equal to other Gurus so if he had written by Gurbani, it would have been in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Fifth Nanak added own bani in Aad Granth Ji so there was no restriction on 10th Nanak either. Dhirmalleas and prithias type created another granth to fool Sikhs.

Those definitions of Charturbhuj are correct. Kahan Singh says God is the caretaker in all directions. How does God take our care? God gives to us. It doesn't mean God has four arms at all and Bhai Kahan Singh says the same thing. Why would you try to fool Sikhs then? Other than that, Dasam Granth's chaturbhuj is about 4 physical arms because he is none other than Mahakaal. He has conch in one hand, snakes in neck, etc. so it is clearly not God of Gurbani. Sarpanee is maayaa so God is maayaadhaari?

As said before Vijaydeep, please don't try to fool Sikhs. Especially not on sites where people are awake.


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 17, 2009)

Gurfateh
Dear Brother,

People who das qouted misqoute Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, so they were talked about. Had Shri Dasham Granth Sahib not there then Sikhs would have been Hindus by now.

There are referance to various episode in Bhagwat Puranas mentioned in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, we do not have to go to Hindu Brahmin for that. We are told in correct prespective by Tenth Master.

Likewise coming to the translation of Markandey Purana, it is not detto as per the source of Hindus. As Sikh we are only told to not go to Devi as "she" is mere manifestaion of Akal, likewise Devi worshippers are told that goddess in only a Kirtam Nam or name by actions attributed to of Akal.

your qoutes from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji say that Guru is one, Voice is one and verses views are one.This rather shows one ness of Guru ie Akal as source of Both Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji.

Lastly you want to say that Tenth Master would have included his verse in Shri Guru Granth Sahib. Had he included even one, then people would have taken that only authantic. Would it be easy for Sikhs to handle such a big volume if both text were to be combined and that also in medivial ages ?

Why did not Tenth Master put his order to behold Shri Guru Granth Sahib as Guru in Shri Guru Granth Sahib ?

Lastly about conch,snake and mammon, das has clarified them in issues answer Mr Ambala.

Does eveything in direction eat? are we the only one in four directions ? who supports objects in space ?

Das himself is a fool.


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Oct 17, 2009)

Guru Gobind Singh Ji didn't include that Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Guru in Guru Granth Sahib Ji because he didn't have to. Guru Nanak had already declared and Guru Arjan had written: Pothi Parmesure Kaa Thaan. Pothi is one word. Not plural. Are we clear?

How do snakes turn into asteroids is some not known. Unfortunately, I don't consume Mahakaal drinks so I can't imagine snakes being referred to as asteroids. And when did space turn into neck of Mahakaal? Vijdaydeep, please don't try to fool others by making false statements. Asteroids have no relation to snakes. I already answered this false statement of yours in another thread.


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 17, 2009)

Gurfateh
Dear Brother,

Pothis is term used to Gurbani at the time of First Master and was not Shri Guru Granth Sahib, It is place of God, which place does God not exists ?

By your logic already some guys have started to say that Baba Nanak did not made Second Guru as his hier(Again no personal attack for yourself but to "logic").

Even after saying Pothi Parmeshwar Ka thaun we had Nine more bodies Gurus. Tenth Master ended this and made Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our eternal Guru, which he has not mentioned in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Your qoutes does not still answer the question and twisting attempt has failed.

Well what do you mean by nugg in Punjabi ? Why a gem/precious stone is called Nugg in Punjabi ? As Cobra lives in mound so they are called Naag. Big mound itself is called Naag. what else is astroid ?


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Oct 17, 2009)

Pothi Parmesur Kaa THaan = Shabad from 5th Nanak in reference to Aad Granth Ji. Where does first Nanak writing Pothi Parmesure Kaa THaan come from? When will you stop lying and misleading the Sikh sangat?

You said nine bodies after 5th Nanak.
Lets see:
1) Guru Hargobind
2) Guru Har Rai
3) Guru HarKrishan
4) Guru Tegh Bahadur
5) Guru Gobind Singh Ji

That is only 5. How did you get nine? Added names of those poets?

Lets see
6) Poet Shyam
7) Poet Raam
8) Poet Kaal
9) Sukha Singh Patna?

Also, do you know diffrence between naag and nugg? I sure do because I sure can read Gurmukhi script. You might fool those who have no clue about Gurmukhi script but not us.

There is no twisting attempt. I am not attempting to twist anything. I am not the one saying poet Shyam is 10th Nanak. Come on Vijay, speak truth. Gurbani says:

ਬੋਲੀਐ ਸਚੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਝੂਠੁ ਨ ਬੋਲੀਐ ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੪੮੮} 
*Boaleeaai Sach Dharam Jhooth Na Boaleeaai ||*
*Speak truth in righteousness, do not speak falsehood.*

I am sorry, how would there be righteousness when poet SHyam is declared as 10th Nanak.


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 17, 2009)

Gurfateh


The Khalsa Fauj said:


> Pothi Parmesur Kaa THaan = Shabad from 5th Nanak in reference to Aad Granth Ji. Where does first Nanak writing Pothi Parmesure Kaa THaan come from? When will you stop lying and misleading the Sikh sangat?
> 
> You said nine bodies after 5th Nanak.
> Lets see:
> ...


Dear Brother,

Das is sorry over here as das would have written Five and not nine. But thing to be elaborated over here is that Five Gurus still existed after declaring Pothi as place of God, but only after Fifth Master does term Granth has come.

So thank you for rectfiying the mistake of Das but question of bodies Guru is not answered as yet us having five even after pothis being declared as place of God.

*[SIZE=-1]Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia[/SIZE]* [SIZE=+0] {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਜੋ ਗਮਨ ਨਾ ਕਰੇ. ਪਰਬਤ. "ਪੱਛ ਪਸੂ ਨਗ ਨਾਗ ਨਰਾਧਿਪ". (ਅਕਾਲ)। (2) ਘਰ। (3) ਬਿਰਛ। (4) ਫ਼ਾ. __ ਤਾਲੂਆ। (5) ਨਗੀਨਾ. "ਨਾਮ ਨਗ ਹੀਰ ਮਣਿ". (ਸਵੈਯੇ ਮਃ ੪. ਕੇ)। (6) ਸੰਖ੍ਯਾ ਬੋਧਕ. ਅ਼ਦਦ. ਨੰਬਰ, ਜਿਵੇਂ- ਚਾਰ ਨਗ ਬਾਲ, ਦਸ ਨਗ ਗਲਾਸ ਆਦਿ. [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]


We find term Nugg used for hill or mound, asteroid are of that shape, If we replace Naa with Na, meaning remains the same. This done in poetry to make single vowel into double. like in the case of Saacha and Sacha means he same.
[/SIZE]


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Oct 17, 2009)

You are completely wrong as once again you are looking at meaning of nugg and not naag. Naag and nugg are different. This has nothing to do with poetry at all. Even in above quote mentioned in your post has two terms, nugg and naag. You clearly aren't fooling anyone but DG lovers.

Also, when did Gurmukhi turn into Roman? These words have meanings. You would know if you ever wanted to know.


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 17, 2009)

Gurfateh
Dear Brother,

Das is not typing anything in Gurmukhi as yet.

it has been given by an example over here that long aa and short a could be interchanged as with Sach and Saach.

It could be seen the terms fooling and other words, are they fine ?

1.  Page9 Line 16  Raag Aasaa: Guru Nanak Dev

ਸਾਚੇ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਲਾਗੈ ਭੂਖ ॥
  saachae naam kee laagai bhookh ||
   If someone feels hunger for the True Name,
1.  Page7 Line 5  Raag Jap: Guru Nanak Dev


  ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੇ ਕੀ ਸਾਚੀ ਕਾਰ ॥
  naanak sachae kee saachee kaar ||
   O Nanak, True is the Creation of the True Lord.

So does the word in red above with or without Kanna means same or not ? why can not be called Nugg be termed as Naag.


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Oct 17, 2009)

No, they do have slightly different meanings. Go ask Surjit Singh Missionary, he should be able to tell you. I don't want to get into technical explanations of words but I will post meanigs from Mahan Kosh:

Nugg
ਸੰਗਾ- ਜੋ ਗਮਨ ਨਾ ਕਰੇ. ਪਰਬਤ. ''ਪੱਛ ਪਸੂ ਨਗ ਨਾਗ ਨਰਾਧਿਪ.'' (ਅਕਾਲ) ੨. ਘਰ। ੩. ਬਿਰਛ। ੪. ਾ. ... ਤਾਲੂਆ। ੫. ਨਗੀਨਾ. ''ਨਾਮ ਨਗ ਹੀਰ ਮਣਿ.'' (ਸਵੈਯੇ ਮ ੪. ਕੇ) ੬. ਸੰਖਾ ਬੋਧਕ. ਅਦਦ. ਨਬਰ, ਜਿਵੇਂ- ਚਾਰ ਨਗ ਬਾਲ, ਦਸ ਨਗ ਗਲਾਸ ਆਦਿ.

Naag
ਸੰ. ਸੰਗਾ- ਹਾਥੀ. ਹਸੀ. ''ਆਰੂੜ ਤੇ ਅਸ ਰਥ ਨਾਗਹ.'' (ਸਹਸ ਮ ੫) ''ਗੁਰੁਵਚ ਅੰਕੁਸ, ਨਾਗ ਮਨ.'' (ਨਾਪ੍ਰ) ੨. ਸਰਪ. ਸੱਪ. ''ਪੱਛਿ ਪਸ ਨਗ ਨਾਗ ਨਰਾਧਿਪ.'' (ਅਕਾਲ) ੩. ਸ਼ਰੀਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਇੱਕ ਵਾਯੁ (ਪਵਨ), ਜਿਸ ਤੋਂ ਡਕਾਰ ਦਾ ਹੋਣਾ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਹੈ. ''ਨਾਗ ਔਰ ਕੂਰਮ ਕ੍ਰਿਕਲ ਦੇਵਦੱਤ ਲਖੋ.'' (ਨਾਪ੍ਰ) ਦੇਖੋ, ਦਸਪ੍ਰਾਣ। ੪. ਕਦ੍ਰ ਤੋਂ ਕਸ਼ਪ ਦੀ ਸੰਤਾਨ, ਜਿਸ ਤੋਂ ਨਾਗਵੰਸ਼ ਚੱਲਿਆ ਹੈ. ਇਸ ਵੰਸ਼ ਦੇ ਹੀ ਰਾਜਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਜਨਮੇਜਯ ਨੇ ਨਾਸ਼ ਕੀਤਾ ਸੀ. ਇਤਿਹਾਸਵੇੱਤਾ ਆਖਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਸ਼ਕਵੰਸ਼ ਦੀ ਹੀ ਇੱਕ ਸਾਖ ਨਾਗਵੰਸ਼ ਹੈ. ਜਦ ਸਿੰਕਦਰ ਭਾਰਤ ਵਿੱਚ ਆਇਆ ਤਦ ਤਸ਼ਿਲਾ ਦਾ ਰਾਜਾ ਨਾਗਵੰਸ਼ੀ ਸੀ, ਜਿਸ ਨੇ ਵਡੇ ਵਡੇ ਸੱਪ ਪਾਲੇ ਹੋਏ ਸਨ ਅਰ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੀ ਨਿਤ ਪੂਜਾ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਸੀ। ੫. ਸੰਧੂਰ. ਸਿੰਦੂਰ। ੬. ਇੱਕ ਨਦੀ. ਦੇਖੋ, ਨਾਗਪੁਰ

Totally different meanings.


Saachay Naam kee means Sachay Day Naam Dee.


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 17, 2009)

Gurfateh 

Dear Brother,

As was proven above which das failed to let you understand is that there is single vowel and double vowal in poetry, where based upon making of Chhand single vowel is replaced by double while meaning remain the same.


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Oct 17, 2009)

You are not removing kanna in Dasam Granth, you are adding it. You guys are masters of adding and removing letters, forget about removing or adding vowels. Remove Airra from Akaal and it has same meaning as per you guys. What is a poor kanna? Truth is that all 4 words have different meanings.


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 4, 2009)

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; ch{censored}t=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CHcl%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="Edit-Time-Data" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CHcl%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_editdata.mso"><!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:ffice:smarttags" name="place"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:ffice:smarttags" name="country-region"></o:smarttagtype><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>  <w:WordDocument>   <w:View>Normal</w:View>   <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom>   <wunctuationKerning/>   <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/>   <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>   <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent>   <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>   <w:Compatibility>    <w:BreakWrappedTables/>    <w:SnapToGridInCell/>    <w:WrapTextWithPunct/>    <w:UseAsianBreakRules/>    <wontGrowAutofit/>   </w:Compatibility>   <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel>  </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>  <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156">  </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]><object  classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><style> <!--  /* Font Definitions */  @font-face 	{font-family:Mangal; 	panose-1:0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0; 	mso-font-ch{censored}t:0; 	mso-generic-font-family:auto; 	mso-font-pitch:variable; 	mso-font-signature:32771 0 0 0 1 0;} @font-face 	{font-family:Raavi; 	panose-1:2 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0; 	mso-font-ch{censored}t:0; 	mso-generic-font-family:auto; 	mso-font-pitch:variable; 	mso-font-signature:131075 0 0 0 1 0;}  /* Style Definitions */  p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal 	{mso-style-parent:""; 	margin:0in; 	margin-bottom:.0001pt; 	mso-pagination:widow-orphan; 	font-size:12.0pt; 	font-family:"Times New Roman"; 	mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 	{size:8.5in 11.0in; 	margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; 	mso-header-margin:.5in; 	mso-footer-margin:.5in; 	mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 	{page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style>  /* Style Definitions */  table.MsoNormalTable 	{mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; 	mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; 	mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; 	mso-style-noshow:yes; 	mso-style-parent:""; 	mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; 	mso-para-margin:0in; 	mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; 	mso-pagination:widow-orphan; 	font-size:10.0pt; 	font-family:"Times New Roman"; 	mso-ansi-language:#0400; 	mso-fareast-language:#0400; 	mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->  Gurfateh
  <o> </o>
  Brother kindly see that Guru has also added Kanna to make Jam as Jaam. So when a person does not know the rules of poetry and yet try to prove himself master and others as false, Akal may bless him.  So work for you in two two ways of explaining but are you ready to learn at all. ?
  Coming to the matter of Nag and Naag.
  <o> </o>
  Let us see an example of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
  <o> </o>

(੧੩੬੮-੧੧, ਸਲੋਕ, ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)
ਕਬੀਰ *ਜਮ* *ਕਾ* ਠੇਂਗਾ ਬੁਰਾ ਹੈ ਓਹੁ ਨਹੀ ਸਹਿਆ ਜਾਇ ॥
kabeer jam kaa thaenagaa buraa hai ouhu nehee sehiaa jaae ||
Kabeer, Death's club is terrible; it cannot be endured.
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">​ *11* Salok Saint Kabir
  (Ang 1368)
(੨੧੧-੨, ਗਉੜੀ, ਮ ੫)
ਅਵਰੁ ਜਿ ਕਰਨ ਕਰਾਵਨੋ ਤਿਨ ਮਹਿ ਭਉ ਹੈ *ਜਾਮ* ਕਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
avar j karan karaavano thin mehi bho hai jaam kaa ||1|| rehaao ||
Whatever else you do or make happen, the fear of death still hangs over you. ||1||Pause||
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">​ *2* Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev 
  (Ang 211)
  <o> </o>
  We see term both jam and jam used for death.
*ਜਮ and ਜਾਮ used for same meaning but why an extra Kanna or “T” of Gumukhi ?*
  So for that reason one must know the rule of poetry which make it good to be sung.
  <o> </o>
  We have vynjans or constants. We also have vowels or Svar. Both *ਜਮ and ਜਾਮ* have two constants each but former has two values of vowels while latters has three. Symbol for short vowel/harsva Svar is “/” of small size. While for prolonged vowel/Dirgh Swar we have symbol “2” but a bit 45 degree slanted from base. So ini case of vowel former has value 2 while later has value 3. As *ਜhas value 1, ਮhas value 1 *in case of former. While in case of later we have *ਜਾ as value 2 and ਮ as value 1.* 
  <o> </o>
  For the same reason, term Nag*ਨਗ* 
   and Naag *ਨਾਗ* 
  could be used interchangeable depending upon the style of poetry.
  <o> </o>
  <o> </o>
  Further to it based upon the grammar of Sanskrit and standardizes Hindi Grammar of making of words. Let us carry out an experiment.
  <o> </o>
  Let us take word Guru.
  <o> </o>
  Gu*ਗੁ* stand for darkness. This is basic or Rurh word. Ru *ਰੁ*stands for remover.
  So as yogic or combined word we find remover of darkness as Guru *ਗੁਰੁ* .
  <o> </o>
  Yet as per Yogrurh word ined word working as basic word/specific meaning comb word working as basic word, we find meaning of Guru *ਗੁਰੁ *as spiritual teacher.
  <o> </o>
  Likewise let us take another example. Term Ram means absorbed, with adding of “T” or Kanna of Gurmukhi term Raam becoming ,one who is absorbed. So Kann or Barha “aa” of Hindi makes transforms the word of object into the object related to that object in some way. Here in case of Raam, we find the case of attribute attached to an entity of the word Ram(pronounced “rumm”).
  <o> </o>
  Like wise nagar means town, naagar means one, who is from town by same rule.
  <o> </o>
  Same rule applies for nag(pronounced “nugg”). Na stands for no/not and Ga for movement(gamanah in Sanskrit). This has specific meaning for hill. Naag means from Hills, it could be cobra, it could be tribe of Nagaland(hill state in north east <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region>), it could be Sindur(red power used by married Indian lady in make up) obtained from hill. Before earth is not assembled, a large rock from heavy celestial hill like irregular object in space too means Naag, which is also called asteroid.
  <o> </o>
  <o> </o>
  Das is still ready for childish slander inflicted upon the scientific explanation, without understanding the rules of the grammar.


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Dec 4, 2009)

Say whatever, I won't buy your excuses and irrational logics. I don't have time to waste on you. Check MK, jaam is another word for jum. While nug is not another word for naag. I explained this before, I don't have time to repeat again. You run around like a kid in candy store. You try quotes and say 'this one'? 'This one?' Well, not that one. Nug means nug, naag means naag. Case is clear for me. If you want to live in doubt, your issue. I have no desire to become a Sikh of Mahakal Kalika. You are welcome to do so.


----------



## Astroboy (Dec 5, 2009)

Here's another example of Nag and Naag as used in the following shabad:-

Deenan Ki Prithpaal Kare Nit, Sant obaar Gani Munn Garrey

Panch Pashoo *Nag Naag* Niraadhhip, Sarab Samey Sabh Ko Prithparrey


----------



## The Khalsa Fauj (Dec 5, 2009)

That is from DG not Gurbani. However, it does show that nag and naag are separate.


----------



## Astroboy (Dec 5, 2009)

About *Jaam* here's a shabad from SGGS on page 1399 :-

<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਜਾਮਿ  ਗੁਰੂ  ਹੋਇ  ਵਲਿ  ਧਨਹਿ  ਕਿਆ  ਗਾਰਵੁ  ਦਿਜਇ  ॥ 
जामि गुरू होइ वलि धनहि किआ गारवु दिजइ ॥ 
*Jām* gurū ho▫e val dẖanėh ki▫ā gārav ḏij▫e. 
One who has the Guru on his side - how could he be proud of his wealth? 

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਾਮਿ  ਗੁਰੂ  ਹੋਇ  ਵਲਿ  ਲਖ  ਬਾਹੇ  ਕਿਆ  ਕਿਜਇ  ॥ 
जामि गुरू होइ वलि लख बाहे किआ किजइ ॥ 
*Jām* gurū ho▫e val lakẖ bāhe ki▫ā kij▫e. 
One who has the Guru on his side - what would hundreds of thousands of supporters do for him? 

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਾਮਿ  ਗੁਰੂ  ਹੋਇ  ਵਲਿ  ਗਿਆਨ  ਅਰੁ  ਧਿਆਨ  ਅਨਨ  ਪਰਿ  ॥ 
जामि गुरू होइ वलि गिआन अरु धिआन अनन परि ॥ 
*Jām* gurū ho▫e val gi▫ān ar ḏẖi▫ān anan par. 
One who has the Guru on his side, does not depend on anyone else for spiritual wisdom and meditation. 

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਾਮਿ  ਗੁਰੂ  ਹੋਇ  ਵਲਿ  ਸਬਦੁ  ਸਾਖੀ  ਸੁ  ਸਚਹ  ਘਰਿ  ॥ 
जामि गुरू होइ वलि सबदु साखी सु सचह घरि ॥ 
*Jām* gurū ho▫e val sabaḏ sākẖī so sacẖah gẖar. 
One who has the Guru on his side contemplates the Shabad and the Teachings, and abides in the Home of Truth. 

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੋ  ਗੁਰੂ  ਗੁਰੂ  ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ  ਜਪੈ  ਦਾਸੁ  ਭਟੁ  ਬੇਨਤਿ  ਕਹੈ  ॥ 
जो गुरू गुरू अहिनिसि जपै दासु भटु बेनति कहै ॥ 
Jo gurū gurū ahinis japai ḏās bẖat benaṯ kahai. 
The Lord's humble slave and poet utters this prayer: whoever chants to the Guru night and day, 

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੋ  ਗੁਰੂ  ਨਾਮੁ  ਰਿਦ  ਮਹਿ  ਧਰੈ  ਸੋ  ਜਨਮ  ਮਰਣ  ਦੁਹ  ਥੇ  ਰਹੈ  ॥੩॥੭॥ 
जो गुरू नामु रिद महि धरै सो जनम मरण दुह थे रहै ॥३॥७॥ 
Jo gurū nām riḏ mėh ḏẖarai so janam maraṇ ḏuh the rahai. ||3||7|| 
whoever enshrines the Name of the Guru within his heart, is rid of both birth and death. ||3||7|| </td></tr></tbody></table>


----------

