# Education: The Only Survival For Sikhi



## Tejwant Singh (Jan 22, 2009)

The only solution to save our Sikhi from disaster is EDUCATION. When the clergy of the Takhats is uneducated academically, intellectually and from the Gurmat view point then what is bred is ego and me-ism where if anyone bats an eye and questions and challenges the set traditions which contradict Gurmat and the teachings of SGGS, he/she becomes an outcast and is stoned in a metaphorical sense.

In order to keep our Sikhi house in order the first prerequisite should be that at least all Jathedaars of the Takhats and head Granthis of the Gurdwaras, starting from Harmader Sahib should have Phd in Gurmat studies and fluency in English.

Just memorsing the SGGS and parroting it not only an insult to our Gurus but to Sikhi.

Only educated clergy can modify the SRM to its present needs. Then only SRM can become a flowing document which can be adapted with the changes that time and the understanding of SGGS requires.

Now the question arises HOW to sow the seeds of all this so the future generations can reap and savour the true Sikhi fruit?

Tejwant Singh


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## spnadmin (Jan 22, 2009)

VaheguruSeekr ji

It will be very interesting to see what responses you receive. Not just here in the forum --- but let's say you float this idea in other venues. What do you think the response will be?   I don't know about the need for a Ph.D. -- but some level of formal training in Sikh philosophy and theology would seem right. 

And do you think politics would leave the arena? Or would politics remain but become subtler, crafty? HMMM  Maybe harder to spot right off? Maybe more difficult to face down in the breach?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jan 23, 2009)

Tejwant Singh Jio,
Gurfateh.

I agree with Antonia Ji's suggestion above. It would be useful to place the SPN Community into the loop....maybe you can compile all the emails you send me (and others) on the subjects of Education/Miracles/reincarnation/84 lakh joons etc etc...so that more enlightened souls on SPN can really benefit from your knowledge.

We are all well into our age...lets use the remaining time to get our ideas across before we get the Call..Ghalleh ayeh nanaka Saddeh utth jayeh....and take all that with us...it would be such a loss to the Youth who need all the guidance they can get.

Thank you Ji.


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jan 23, 2009)

sikhi needs structure that allows debate and reasoning


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## Tejwant Singh (Jan 23, 2009)

Giani Jarnail Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Excellent idea. In fact this is one of those emails that I have posted it here. In doing what you have requested, I would need your help if you do not mind. Please email me and help me sort out the emails that you would think would benefit this beautiful, new, curious, always open to learn paneeri.

Thanks and Regards.

Tejwant Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jan 23, 2009)

Guru Piayario Jio,
gurfateh.
Will do that asap. Just give me a day or two.

2. BTW the "cross-posting" bamboo curtain the mods are hiding behind...is an euphermism for.... We are EXCLUSIVE...post ONLY to US...and thus FORCE others to join our membership  by EXCLUDING all others from the posts.
Exact same attitude of DOG IN THE MANGER that we often see in the GURDWARAS...every Committee of every Gurdwara wants the "members" to ONLY use OUR Granthi..OUR SGGS BIR (GOLUCK)...etc..etc.... Even if a memeber has his own copy of the SGGS at his home...( GRUDGINGLY....its  OK then.) .....BUT please do send the GOLUCK to US....after all its the Goluck that we really want !!

3. Instead of clicking on the CC button..click on the BCC button....in that case the CC remains HIDDEN.......and your friends Emails remain PRIVATE ( its not beyond some to STEAL such email addresses and then send them INVITATIONS/or forcibly ENROLL them as Members !! EK panth do kaaj !! As  a matter of Principle i REFuSE to be  a memeber of any biased Forum no matter what its "name" may suggest about Gurmatt/Sikhi Learning :yes:etc.


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## Tejwant Singh (Jan 23, 2009)

aad0002 said:


> VaheguruSeekr ji
> 
> It will be very interesting to see what responses you receive. Not just here in the forum --- but let's say you float this idea in other venues. What do you think the response will be?  I don't know about the need for a Ph.D. -- but some level of formal training in Sikh philosophy and theology would seem right.
> 
> And do you think politics would leave the arena? Or would politics remain but become subtler, crafty? HMMM  Maybe harder to spot right off? Maybe more difficult to face down in the breach?


 
Antonia ji,

By Phd, I did not mean, Passed Highschool with Difficulty.


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## spnadmin (Jan 24, 2009)

VaheguruSeekr said:


> Antonia ji,
> 
> By Phd, I did not mean, Passed Highschool with Difficulty.



VaheguruSeekr ji -- Very funny :happy: There is nothing I can say to that!


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## Balkar Singh (Apr 2, 2009)

Dear Tejwant Singh,
                      Yes education , but what kind of education ? Gurbani gives us examples of educated people.
1) Fools are the educated who have greed, temptation and ego. Vaar Majh M-1 GGS-140
2) Deers, eagles and touts, if trained/educated , bring their own community to the trap.waar malhar M-1 GGS-1288
3) You will be in high spirits,all the day-long ,if you sit near the educated who think over good and evil and reject the falsehood. M-2 GGS-146

 Please note the difference .There are so many such Holy-sayings in Gurbani

 A) I don't know a single institute which gives Gurmat education alongwith acadmic degrees. Please tell me if you know one !

B) Are the academic degree holders ready to be a devotional granthy ? if so

C) Is it possible that the koor-pardhani system will allow them to serve the Satguru and not the management/employers ?
                   The subject is great and must be completed and followed.

                                                 with regards, dass
                                                                       Balkar Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 2, 2009)

Balkar Singh Ji
Gurfateh.

I am sure Tejwant Ji didnt want the "parriah moorakh akheayeah..types....you know the so educated...who pick holes in everything just to show one upmanship.
What we wnat and need are the DOWN TO EARTH types..reasonably educated 9 to stand up in the world - Just look at our GURUS....right from Guur nanak ji who went to SCHOOL - First the F{censored}e one to study the Islamic tradition..then the Pandit to study Hinduism/related subjects..he also went to Learn Accounts/Maths etc so that he could work. The other Gurus were also "Educated" ( in worldly sense) as wella s Dhurron Warsai Hoyeh ( blessed from Creator)..Thus WORLDLY EDUCATION and SPIRITUAL EDUCATION must BOTH be present in a successful SIKH.
We certainly dont wnat a  totally "spiritual Sikh" who cant get / hold a decent job to earn honest livelihood... ( wittness the hordes of Gyanis/Ragis/Kathawachaks/Granthis/Kirtaniyas etc who are solely dependnat on SGGS/GURDWARAS for daily bread. GURU NANAK JI certainly DID NOT earn his daily bread from Singing KIRTAN..He was a FARMER..but our "holy Men" today dont wnat or cannot qualify for decent outside jobs as they dotn have a decent education. In other words they are UNFIT for anything except what they do...parrot Gurbani/ritualise gurbani/sing Gurbani for a living. Period.
This type of PRIESTHOOD was NOT encouraged in GURMATT...whereby EACH SIKH is to be His Own Kirtaniyah..paathi..ardassiah.)
So Now that we have descended into a situation that we must have "professional" ragis/granthsi etc to do our JOB for us...then least of all we can suggest that these be BASIC EDUCATED..in ENGLISH..PUNJABI...have knowledge fo Science/Maths/General knowledge.Comparative religions/ etc etc rathere than just memorised Gurbani limited to a few shabds/ardass etc.

GURUS ennvisaged SIKHS to be ALL ROUNDERS..saints..soldiers..academics..professionals...linguists....we must strive towards that...
It is said that the SIKH is the BEST FARMER...the BEST SOLDIER...and we are the best in many others..and must strive to be so....its NOT a tall order...


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## Balkar Singh (Apr 2, 2009)

Thanks Arshi ji I whole-heartedly agree and respect your thoughts. It's must and hope that with Guru's grace ,the day come to fulfill it Thanks a lot.


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## Tejwant Singh (Apr 2, 2009)

Balkar Singh said:


> Dear Tejwant Singh,
> Yes education , but what kind of education ? Gurbani gives us examples of educated people.
> 1) Fools are the educated who have greed, temptation and ego. Vaar Majh M-1 GGS-140
> 2) Deers, eagles and touts, if trained/educated , bring their own community to the trap.waar malhar M-1 GGS-1288
> ...


 

Balkar Singh ji,

Guru fateh.

What you said is right. Thanks for sharing all the mine fields facing Sikhi.

I have no answers to your valid questions.  That is why I put it in open for all of us to brain storm in order to find solutions because the fact remains we have none at the moment. 

Isn't brainstorming the new word  borrowed from Shabad Vichaar?

Allow me to paint an abstract about Gurmat education that is needed and please pitch in with your ideas.

1. Education that can give us the tools to instill the concept of Miri-Piri so that we can find balance in our daily life from infancy onwards. 

2. Education that  can  teach us to build  a bridge between devotion and pragmatism so that the devotion does not become the opium whose effect is very transistory but an engine to lead a pragmatic life.

3. Education that can teach us to feed the hungry and help the needy rather than having langar banquets in the name of Sangat-Pangat concept and offering rumallahs after rumallahs to SGGS.

4.Education that can teach us how to cultivate Shabad Vichaar so it can put into practive in our daily lives rather than just parroting Gurbani.

5. Education that can teach us how to find the Gurmat Fulcrum - Sehaj within.

As the saying goes," People do not plan to fail but fail to plan.".

We have been doing the latter ever since our 10th Guru, Guru Gobind Singh ji bestowed upon us our last and only Guru, SGGS.

Tejwant Singh


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## ballym (Jun 28, 2009)

WHAT IS YR  aim by saying all this?Should we have education for all people in SGPC and Gurudwaras or not?
if u need education then we should find a way.
Simply raising questions does not help.
We have educational streams on religion in universities.
 We should find a way to make it more attractive...
for example... making it preferable for every granthi to be a graduate( do not argue on this... it is just a suggestion)
Let them STUDY ALL OTHER RELIGION..
When we buy something, we compare it with all other similar items... so Our religious leader must be sure that they know what other religions are.

By the way... there are so much discussion about hairs but only two pages about education in sikhi


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## Josh martin (Jul 8, 2009)

Shame on anyone who who thinks Sikhism can be saved by us or We have say in what will happen whatsoever. Since when did sikhs assume this responsibility from the Guru Sahib?:welcome:


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jul 8, 2009)

Josh ji

Religions are man made things and all man made things need to be protected by humans and not God.


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## Tejwant Singh (Jul 8, 2009)

Josh ji,

Guru Fateh.

What is the weather like in Henschel Park, Sacramento?


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## Josh martin (Jul 9, 2009)

Huck_Finn said:


> Josh ji
> 
> Religions are man made things and all man made things need to be protected by humans and not God.



Lord have mercy. So much wrong with that line. But it seems like an harmless opinion 



It's basant here in Junly. Cool in day, chilli at night.


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## simpy (Oct 7, 2009)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> We certainly dont wnat a totally "spiritual Sikh" who cant get / hold a decent job to earn honest livelihood...


 
Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji,

In my humble view, holding a job to earn an honest living (to fulfill our required needs) doesn't require any education. A totally uneducated person can do it and can be totally spiritual at the same time. There had been many many examples in the world.....you can find these kind of people in every religion including Sikh Faith.

Education doesn't bring honest livlihood and spirituality. But for sure-- Spiritual advancement opens the doors to all kinds of knowledge and wisdom as well as it inculcates honesty.

A Spiritual person does everything without expectation of any result. Honest living is their trait...I have not met a single spiritual soul who is not earning his/her livlihood honestly irrespective of their education level. Tell me if you have....

A Spiritual person has access to the absolute knowledge(which covers wordly wisdom as well). Answer to everything comes from within...........
Guru Ji taught his own school teacher(we dont need to go far to see that!!!!).....

A person can be very highly educated but not spiritual at all--
A person who is evolved spiritualy does'nt require worldly education. It comes from within. He/she is the most educated...just like Guru Ji--Who has the capacity and courage to teach a teacher..........


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## ballym (Jan 12, 2010)

simpy said:


> In my humble view, holding a job to earn an honest living (to fulfill our required needs) doesn't require any education. A totally uneducated person can do it and can be totally spiritual at the same time. There had been many many examples in the world.....you can find these kind of people in every religion including Sikh Faith.


Look at a *bigger picture* and a real possibilty:
An uneducated person becoming a raagi to earn money even though he is not spiritual. he may be just faking it. Many are doing it. It is good money.
That is why a process and rules are required for every profession. If he/ she gets education along with spiritual motivation, there is no harm in it. It will be MUCH MUCH better. Such people can be our true guides and take the religion to higher level.
It can be done by standardisation. I think Christians have done some standardisation.How do they select their clergy?
 Uneducated impersonators may even misleed for their own gain. World is not so simple and easy. Even jarnail singh Bhindranwale was congress supporter in 1980. Still he manged to become what he did. It is easy to influence people. We must be sure that our religious leaders are good. Education may not be 100% solution but it reduces error margin to a large extent.
Again, people are not so simple. You just need one person to make or break.


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## kds1980 (Jan 12, 2010)

> An uneducated person becoming a raagi to earn money even though he is not spiritual. he may be just faking it. Many are doing it. It is good money.



May be an educated person will never try to become a raagi or bhai ji because educated people are the most egoistic people on earth more than who have money.They always
want white collar jobs and when these jobs are not available they just sit idle


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## ballym (Jan 13, 2010)

First I thought that I would ignore it but later the urge to correct the situation for everybody,s benefit overpowered me.
 So,
 My line quoted above is taken out of context... not as much as Raajiv Gandhi used to claim:yes:..... remember?....
 If you are just joking... it is fine but it does not seem so.
 Read the whole and get whole picture..eduacated people are on a different level . It may be taken as ego by some. 
 let us focus on main discussion. 
 All said and done... education does and will bring a change.
For example, even if Sukhbir is Prakash ji's son, there will be different approach. I am not saying senior in uneducated but the style is different. 
 A bookish knowledge does not make an educated person for sure, but chances are that it does.
 After all so many so called eduacted people are also involved at SGPC, Akali Dal.... and SAD( A):yes:.... the result is for you to see.
 Simaranjit Mann MAY have  some good ideas but implementation part and consequently the people who associate with him are poor . An IPS at such level... you need to have good leadership qualities and able to judge the results of your action.
 I can not be a good leader beacause I can not control my people.
 That is why leaders of ANY organisation( a business, political party etc) is rewarded heavily. It is the education part which makes difference in SPN and other sites.  OMG


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## Tejwant Singh (Jan 13, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> May be an educated person will never try to become a raagi or bhai ji because educated people are the most egoistic people on earth more than who have money.They always
> want white collar jobs and when these jobs are not available they just sit idle




Kanwardeep Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

And the other side of the coin is that if we paid well to the Raagis and the Bhais  provided  we gave them the venues to develop through education in Gurmat, language skills so they do not have to look in front of their harmonium how much money the Sangat is giving them, I am sure we will have better and devout Raagis and Bhais and these would become  white collar jobs and Gurmat studies by both would help all who interact with them.

In order to happen this, we need educated people above them who hold the donations which give them power. Education should breed open- mindedness which must lead to honesty as the SGGS, our only Guru teaches us.

Tejwant Singh


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## gursikhi.jeevan (Mar 5, 2010)

I agree. People need to be educated. People also need to be educated about Sikhi. All Sikhs should study gurbani and educate themselves about their religion.


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## ballym (Mar 6, 2010)

gursikhi.jeevan said:


> I agree. People need to be educated. People also need to be educated about Sikhi. All Sikhs should study gurbani and educate themselves about their religion.


 I was watching and listening to radio program Gurbani in Toronto where one Mr. Gurbachan singh ( Thailand) stated in the very beginning.... an uneducated quom has no future.
 When you do not even have information, how can you make judgement?
 Our people are good at work and are daring. They go anywhere in the world and make a living, but on reading part, they still lack requisite level.
 Have you noticed that all Pro dasam Granth people/ orgs. put their views, do not allow open discussion, treat others as somewhat lower than them( a trait common with hindu sharma elite community). No education or discussion.
 If someone preaches common people something, they start believing it without judging it .
Another funny remark made by people is that Guru nanak also used 84 lakh, Ram.... etc so we are same as Hindu......while he just explained it to common people in their language.
I know that it is best way when we teach someone in their own language.... and why should it come to my mind that I should not use these words because people will misinterpret them later.....OH I have to start something new so I should not use any common word or personality. people will misinterpret!!!

People are trying to suggest now that Guru Nanak should have been a cunning person and not  a simple preacher of much needed reforms which blossomed into a religion despite brutal opposition.

 Only education and understanding will bring good results. An industrious population is available for free.Sikh has become a bad word. Even our own people disown their people.
 Instead we should have pride in our religion.


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## davinderdhanjal (Nov 23, 2010)

Dear Tejwant Singh,
I thank you for starting the thread - I have tried to chip in a number of times but this seems the best time to discuss a few points.
"_The only solution to save our Sikhi from disaster is EDUCATION_"
I agree EDUCATION is the solution - however what do we teach? Please note Guru Granth Sahib is not point to start at - it is the ending point!
Guru Nanak did not have the Granth Sahib but he followed a few very simple ideas to *be true to yourself and to the Lord, Not to to hurt other humans (life), Helping the needy, and Sharing the wealth (this is knowledge and resources)*
We have lost about 300 years to solidify our base of faith and knowledge but it has been muddied by by people quoting ununderstandable quotes (may be from the Granth Sahib) and we think they are all high and mighty and fail to follow the basics.
The EDUCATION required is in these basic principles so that anybody can share the teachings of the clergy and ask if they practice it and how? Guru Nanak did!
Having arguments about Guru Granth Sahib teachings (or discussions) are secondary - mattha take to these clergy should be for the practical helpful knowledge they impart - try looking at the contribution of "Sant Balbir Singh Seechawal"
A Phd may be able to contribute but if they can why are we having difficulties with interpreting some basic ardas wording like 'bhagauti' and we are ready to form different groups because of understanding? Thanks Phds!
As already mentioned our Gurus 2-10 all practiced the basics also I am not sure I would call them Phds but building 'sermonal castles' on Guru Granth Sahib teachings, which majority do not understand, is doing disservice to Sikhism when the teachers do not practice the basic requirements of the religion.
By the way has anybody tried to follow these basic principles (I may have missed some) I find them very difficult however I do not forgive myself and keep trying!


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## findingmyway (Nov 23, 2010)

Knowledge should come from a variety of sources. The problem of relying on 1 person is that their interpretation may be flawed or manipulated to suit. Using their understanding in addition so other understandings enhances the learning process for all as many people have valuable insights


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## spnadmin (Nov 23, 2010)

davinderdhanjal ji

Here is only a partial quote of your remarks overall -- the entire post really engaged me.



> A Phd may be able to contribute but if they can why are we having difficulties with interpreting some basic ardas wording like 'bhagauti' and we are ready to form different groups because of understanding? Thanks Phds!
> As already mentioned our Gurus 2-10 all practiced the basics also I am not sure I would call them Phds but building 'sermonal castles' on Guru Granth Sahib teachings, which majority do not understand, is doing disservice to Sikhism when the teachers do not practice the basic requirements of the religion.



If I am understanding your point, then you are noting something that has bothered me a lot lately. 

There are Gurbani scholars, schooled in language, religion, history teaching in universities. Who knows what they lecture, or what journals they publish in? With a few exceptions their conversations are unknown and invisible to the average person. They are talking to one another, scholar to scholar. Do they realize that their knowledge is for the most part inaccessible, even unknown and unknowable, unless one has the tools to dig it out and the circumstances to approach them personally? 

Then there are the babas who preach based on who knows what sources? Is their offering reliable? Can we trust it?

In between these poles is a gap - a big gap - filled by earnest people, often very educated in a field *unrelated* to Gurbani or religion, who have dedicated their lives to informing the panth about Sikh history, theology, etc. These are the people who make the fruits of their labor available to the rest of us, and they ask for nothing in return. And these are also the people who are often reviled in the media and on the Internet by fanatics.

It is distressing to say the least.


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## davinderdhanjal (Feb 26, 2016)

Thank you spnadmin,

                            I think we may be on the same track. Like you I puzzle over similar predicaments. 

I read a note from Rani_vancouver in this forum where she is to spend her own hard earned cash to get some literature translated and she was looking for some translators. She is willing to do the major part of the manipulation and publishing herself - I find that very commendable. And after translation - it will be a generous person who would share the the results with all!

It however seemed very odd to me that after 300 years since Guru Gobind Singh - there is not a structure that a faithful can follow to get a translation done with confidence - individuals still have to translate the Punjabi literature by themselves and have difficulty finding reliable translators. Is there is no established path to achieve this?

If there is not then the infrastructure needs upgrading rather than efforts of individuals being scattered and possibly repeated. 

 Would it not be proper and rightful to have a central authority to provide this facility?

After discussing this with friends - they believe Patiala University and Guru Nanak university are the two man seats for this. Now - I guess we may need to use both seats to get a reasonable translation and its verification?

Our Gurdwara committee gets so much funding from Sikhs and others - is it unreasonable to expect them to be able to provide an infrastructure with this as one of the services - and if they did could we trust them or do we go back to Maculiffe's of yester years to do this for us? (It was 

If we can establish how the Granth Sahib and other main scriptures are or were translated we may be able to improve or publicise the route for all. Is there a way to contact these authorities?

Does federal or state governments have any input into this? Liberaries dedicated to scriptures?

Do you find that when one tries to get to the basics of the problems - a very few contributors actually participate? I am pleased you responded the way you did.

I wonder if it is because they feel it is a dead end route or if they consider it to be a taboo subject of may be there would be a backlash if they participated?

To my reckoning it takes a lot of hard work. It needs to locate the sources of information and allow contribution of the interested parties to be made public and appreciated and information deseminated.

I also think a forum dedicated to the subject may be necessary.

I leave it at this for the present till you consider if it is also worth it.


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## Harry Haller (Feb 26, 2016)

the trouble is, everyone has an agenda


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## Sikhilove (Sep 30, 2016)

Hi

People should understand Gurbani instead of just repeating it. Merely repeating it, you could be reading a recipe for soup!


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## Dalvinder Singh Grewal (Oct 1, 2016)

spnadmin said:


> VaheguruSeekr ji
> 
> It will be very interesting to see what responses you receive. Not just here in the forum --- but let's say you float this idea in other venues. What do you think the response will be?   I don't know about the need for a Ph.D. -- but some level of formal training in Sikh philosophy and theology would seem right.
> 
> And do you think politics would leave the arena? Or would politics remain but become subtler, crafty? HMMM  Maybe harder to spot right off? Maybe more difficult to face down in the breach?


Sikhism is based in continuous learner since a 'Sikh' is fundamentally a learner. Our Gurdwaras and mothers at home have been wanting in this since they are the primary sources for giving the young the knowledge of SIKHI. Only kirtan will not do; we have also to incorporate teaching of Sikh value system in programmes at Gurdwaras and also mothers almost must take on themselves to tell short stories about the Sikh events like the discussions Guru Nanak had with various evil people during his travels and of Gur Tegh Bahadur, Sahibzada's  Baba Banda Singh, Bhai Mani Singh martyrdom. Our history is very rich and has lot of moral lessons to learn. Also in our school syllabus Sikhi must be duly inculcated again. it was gradually removed during the Congress rule but have not been reintroduced till now despite of pleas to the government.


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## RD1 (Oct 1, 2016)

dalvindersingh grewal said:


> mothers almost must take on themselves to tell short stories about the Sikh events



Why is the responsibility to perpetuate tradition, religion, and morality placed overwhelmingly on women?


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## Harry Haller (Oct 2, 2016)

dalvindersingh grewal said:


> Sikhism is based in continuous learner since a 'Sikh' is fundamentally a learner.



In my view we can only learn from ourselves, as our experiences are all different as is our outlook, so our conclusions will also be different.



dalvindersingh grewal said:


> Our Gurdwaras and mothers at home have been wanting in this since they are the primary sources for giving the young the knowledge of SIKHI.



Our Gurdwaras are all geared towards the common denominator, and are nothing more than social meeting places where little contemplation or understanding takes place. 



dalvindersingh grewal said:


> Only kirtan will not do; we have also to incorporate teaching of Sikh value system in programmes at Gurdwaras and also mothers almost must take on themselves to tell short stories about the Sikh events like the discussions Guru Nanak had with various evil people during his travels and of Gur Tegh Bahadur, Sahibzada's Baba Banda Singh, Bhai Mani Singh martyrdom



I would suggest something a bit more concrete than the discussion of Sakhis which may or may not have taken place, with conclusions that are not compatible with Sikhism. Some would say Baba Banda Singh split Sikhism, and destroyed every building and living thing in Sirhind, what can be learned from this? 


dalvindersingh grewal said:


> Our history is very rich and has lot of moral lessons to learn. Also in our school syllabus Sikhi must be duly inculcated again. it was gradually removed during the Congress rule but have not been reintroduced till now despite of pleas to the government.



which Sikhi? the nirankari version? the namdhari one? the nihang one? the 3HO one? the one that states no idol worship, no images, then fills its temples with pictures? maybe one of the ones that likes a good candle lighting ceremony? one of the ones that observe the full moon? 

I am afraid forget education, really, forget it, educate in what? the age old traditional Sikhism with its attitude towards women and caste? I think the youngsters will find their own way on their own, they will refine, lets hope they do a better job


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## Dalvinder Singh Grewal (Oct 2, 2016)

RD1 said:


> Why is the responsibility to perpetuate tradition, religion, and morality placed overwhelmingly on women?


Mother remains the strongest force to influence a child.  Mother is not considered here is a mere woman. Mother is much more for a child than a woman.


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## RD1 (Oct 2, 2016)

dalvindersingh grewal said:


> Mother remains the strongest force to influence a child. Mother is not considered here is a mere woman. Mother is much more for a child than a woman.



That is a traditional gender role. Regardless of how involved a father chooses to be in his child's life, he has just as much influence on the child as the mother. Perhaps one thing that needs to change (in general) is for fathers to step up and take on more responsibility in raising their children, and educating their children on Sikhi as well, rather than putting it disproportionately  on the mother.


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## Loveisthereason (Apr 15, 2019)

Being educated is just one facet. Every quom including all great world powers are yearning for the same thing, a "sanjhi nishani", a composite identity which is shared therefore accepted. You have lost the plot if you think that it is just the Sikh community which is left wanting. All over the world leadership is undermined and discredited from before its inception, ideas are exploited by lobbyists and the wealthy, chance is curbed by hidden forces, and you think its the Sikh community which is under threat? I think I am lucky to have tasted the sweet love of SIKHI before the advent of this decay, I still remember the passion and zeal of the uneducated, before such stupid propositions were meaningful. And that's the problem, there is supposed to be an unbroken link from one age to the next, its still saturated in punjab despite the decay, but as someone who lives in the diaspora that link is broken in increasing numbers and is being broken  further by broken intellectuals. Sorry to say that. Its not the competency of seeing the bigger picture that is our greatest asset, its seeing all things at once.


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## swarn bains (Apr 19, 2019)

very interesting proposition. i know that phd type people work in harmandir sahib but they are librarians. you can select some from there. next question ; no one wants his or her son become a raagi. that means only those who have no where to go learn how to singh sabads and songs. how can anyone replace that. money is the major factor for getting phd. so for the raggis are not paid but they get money from what the sangat donates. for instance  i am the one with no serious education. majority of the people in this world are such. where would they go. the proposition is very good but the solution just as difficult


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## ravneet_sb (Apr 21, 2019)

Sat Sri Akaal,

What kind of Education.   

 Doctor with a lust, Administrator with Anger, Engineer wth a Greed, Intellact with arrogance are worst combinations of education and emotion.    
Spider/ Termites/ Birds/  makes home with precise engineering.  How/Who  develop and
pass on skills to next generation.
Animals reproduce without hospitals, how they get skills.

Humans with lost awareness, need to enquire skills. But inherited emotions, who have no correlation with outer world, as is creation of own mind,  only with tamed emotions, humans can be valued.
So education which helps in taming false emotions is needed.

With this we have initiated a 45 minutes daily and regular program at Bhai Jaita Ji Foundation Chandigarh, providing free training to intelligent economically weaker section of Punjab,  for 90 students of 10th to 12th. It is voluntary program.  

Hope it resolves the Mission of value base education.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## Loveisthereason (Apr 25, 2019)

I want to talk a little about leadership today and who the buck really lies with, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, however. Having worked for an official organisation and many other companies there is a common theme which runs through these which is also the problem with our Sikh organisations. Having the right people in the right places is vital to an effective output. One of the things I notice is that corporations and public organisations recruit and promote individuals who lack stimulatory communication skills, its just people who do the job, there is always a balance of people in leadership who can either have hard conversations or keep their heads down. Almost all issues are tied into this problem.

Take racism in the workplace, this is no longer a workplace or country specific issue it occurs through partnerships of equals across organisations and international tie ups . It cannot be tackled through in-house initiatives any more , it has created a behind the scenes cloak within 3rd party interactions.

Our Sikh organisations are the same, diversity of opinion is not welcomed, we should encourage the voice of people who have different views even if we don't personally agree with them, instead rigid boundaries are created across international networks to sideline perceived opposition. Then this creates bitterness and divisive policy. That policy grows with time to produce an irreconcilable situation with people on both sides of the fence asking "what do we do now?".

Staff/sewadar intentions is what suffers due to not having the right people in the right places. Look at how many individuals are either fired or resign in the Trump administration, this administration is an excellent case study for revealing the massive underestimated significance of colleague intention. One side thinks they have discarded and replaced the problem, the other side thinks they have escaped and moved on to better things. In almost all cases no-one says we've lost a good employee or that I lost a good job, why is that? Because the intentions were never for the success of the business, this is what having the wrong person in the wrong jobs does. People come in, go through the motions, realise there is no environment, take flight.

I've used the word environment because that is what a workspace should be, a vibrant and stimulating place where people can innovative and produce the new and next thing. However when you don't have the right people in the right places any exchange of ideas is stolen to further the ambitions of dull and empty parasites who occupy a position for that very same intention. The majority of inventions and advances in organisations are made by people who are stuck behind a person who should never have been in the position they hold. They are exploited and by the time they realise that the credit has been taken by the wrong person they leave with no recognition. This is what really happens.

Our Sikh organisations have a problem with recognising people more often than not posthumously, or not recognising them at all. Think about how many scholars, singers, ragis, artists etc there have been which we have learnt from, we have enjoyed over the past, we know they had exceptional talent, vision and a huge record of output but they were never acknowledged where it mattered most to us, our central Sikh body. There is also something to be said about such stellar individuals in our panth, they never expected anything from us for their massive contributions, they never waited to be involved in any form of participation that would showcase their talents, they continued to produce and deliver like tidal waves their skills in the face of poverty, despotism, insurgency and all the other plights of Indian society.

Freedom of speech is the only tool left for political engagement, elections don't make a difference, civil disobedience does not make a difference, terrorism does not work. On the other side sanctions, discrediting, war, operations don't work. Etc etc. Freedom of speech needs more protection today than it ever has before. Humans are being diminished to the level of algorithms. Narratives are increasingly shaped by corporations, we are even made to look at human intentions as something that needs to be exposed as opposed to understood. In that aim one can stand tall and say "I have a leader which wasn't my fault". This I believe captures the sentiment of the masses who abide within all structures with the culture I have described.


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## ravneet_sb (Apr 26, 2019)

Sat Sri Akaal,

After conclusion and decisions, righteous is that leads to action.

How we involve self, 
ourself (family and friends) 
and greater self (resources gifted by nature)

how much energy (finance, effort, space) that matters.

lets it be the * EDUCATION i.e.*

the spirit of GURU's BANI

Jini NAAM Dhayay, pragat guran ki bani (Sorry for not writting DEH) 

Jo  Prabh Ko Milbo Chahein

Who wants to realise GOD

Khoj Shabad Meni Leh

Can found in GURU's BANI 

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## Sikhilove1 (Aug 13, 2019)

Loveisthereason said:


> I want to talk a little about leadership today and who the buck really lies with, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, however. Having worked for an official organisation and many other companies there is a common theme which runs through these which is also the problem with our Sikh organisations. Having the right people in the right places is vital to an effective output. One of the things I notice is that corporations and public organisations recruit and promote individuals who lack stimulatory communication skills, its just people who do the job, there is always a balance of people in leadership who can either have hard conversations or keep their heads down. Almost all issues are tied into this problem.
> 
> Take racism in the workplace, this is no longer a workplace or country specific issue it occurs through partnerships of equals across organisations and international tie ups . It cannot be tackled through in-house initiatives any more , it has created a behind the scenes cloak within 3rd party interactions.
> 
> ...



If you take Nanaks example.. 

He didn’t Need to establish a political party or organization, he just lives Truth in action and spread what he learned with the world for its betterment. He walked into the most powerful and militant religious institution in the world- Mecca- taught truth with Zero fear and total Love and walked out alive. 

This was unheard of and even today would be unheard of. People listened to him because they felt and believed he spoke the Truth.

Bhagat Kabir was said to be from a low class and people listened to him. The power of Truth is severely underestimated. 

What I’m trying to say is that these beings overpowered political institutions of their times... 

Humans should work on themselves first and then Lead by Example.


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## ravneet_sb (Aug 13, 2019)

Sat Sri Akaal,

Let's play our role in this SEVA of education, realization and practice. 

And enlarge role to infinity. Any one and everyone can do it.  

Please Don't blame 

if to be done take it on  ME as I have not done it and should have done.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## Sikhilove1 (Aug 14, 2019)

ravneet_sb said:


> Sat Sri Akaal,
> 
> Let's play our role in this SEVA of education, realization and practice.
> 
> ...



Im not blaming, I’m speaking the truth. No one is Nanak myself included. He led by example, his life was an example to us to walk on the straight and narrow path.


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## ravneet_sb (Aug 15, 2019)

Sikhilove1 said:


> Im not blaming, I’m speaking the truth. No one is Nanak myself included. He led by example, his life was an example to us to walk on the straight and narrow path.


Sat Sri Akaal,

Guru Nanak also possessed jewel of TRUTH and What was done by getting TRUTH.  

Serve Serve and Serve everywhere       

That becomes a passion for education and to serve be achievement for a release of potion of life.


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## A_seeker (Aug 17, 2019)

Sikhilove1 said:


> He walked into the most powerful and militant religious institution in the world- Mecca- taught truth with Zero fear and total Love and walked out alive.



How can you be so sure that it was militant religious place at that time too.


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## Loveisthereason (Aug 18, 2019)

I actually had a debate about this subject on the islamicboard website a very long time ago. The general consensus there was that the Guru never went to mecca. I argued that only a radiant form could have entered that place and performed the actions he performed. I don't believe the same restrictions applied back then toward non-Muslims.

Humans and some other creatures have always lived in an age of belief, this does not necessarily mean religion. When we make comments about what the Guru was like and how he achieved what he did we are making things up, it has never been a certainty that speaking the truth would bring gains, if speaking the truth was the best way then why would 2 of our Guru's be executed.

The response to our Guru's deeds is mere chance. The 1st Guru was imprisoned by Babar because he called him Jabbar did these words yeild a positive reaction? It is only when the Guru's Kirtan reached the ears of the tyrant that he was released.

Ive said this before, naam exists in 2 forms, radiant form "pargaas" and divine sound "naad", these are the 2 indicators of those on the spiritual path, yet the reaction to this is recognition which is by chance.


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## ravneet_sb (Aug 18, 2019)

Sat Sri Akaal,

How it matters, it the TRUTH appears sour to someone, or king has given punishment for speaking TRUTH, the purpose of righteous inner awareness was given.  And one has gone to outreach for a cause.

Just keep on educating, dislike of TRUTH may come or contradiction, dislikes, punishments will be on yet one can work for a cause. 

Spreading Righteous thought is like seeding a society it will give fruits of righteousness at end.


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## Loveisthereason (Aug 18, 2019)

I wonder what the Palestinian authority, the kashmiri people, the catalan people, the Northern Ireland catholics, and even the sikhs in punjab feel about the power of their truth. A learned man recently said the days have gone where we thought giving a mangpattar to the authority would carry us favour, the TRUTH is that we have to meet the challenges of today by finding new modes of communicating our demands, grievances and perception otherwise we may as well sit cross-legged with our hands under our bums and talk to a mirror. Seed society through innovative thought and action, show a mirror to those who aren't clear about what they are and what they are doing, I believe in the concept of radical realism, first impressions are important use your gut instinct to drive home your arguments, the primacy of thought over the thinking away of your thoughts, we have been socialised to defer from calling out rogue elements, and they exist everywhere. The advent of Guru Nanak is described as Singh bukeh mir gavalee, he was a lion.


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## Sikhilove1 (Aug 27, 2019)

A_seeker said:


> How can you be so sure that it was militant religious place at that time too.



Read a Gurbani. A lot of people in and around Mecca wanted Nanak dead. 

Alot of forced conversions back then, many wanted the world to be an Islamic one.


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