# A Question To Naam Abhiyassis



## stupidjassi (Apr 30, 2008)

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh 

A quick question

According to gurbani
1. In the stomach of Women , a child is performing Naam simran, and hence he is already connected to God.
3. Mind become dead after our death, coz our brain become dead. 
4. we do naam simran in this life to emerge with God and to Kill our Mind  (Leave Man Mat ) / clean our mind 

Now if Mind will dies when we gonna die, so why we Perform Naam simran in before death???

Thanks
stupidjassi


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## spnadmin (Apr 30, 2008)

stupidjassi ji

Fair question. You keep me on my toes at all times. A quick reply -- your question goes to the heart of the "mind-body problem" in philosophy. 

This is my untutored understanding.. 

The mun that dies at the time of physical death is not the sense of mun that dies in nam simran. when we are still alive The mun that dies "while we are still alive" is the *consciousness *we have of our own "mun". We are conscious of this mun as our personal "mun" and in thinking this way we separate our consciousness from a greater consciousness which is not ours alone. This separation is the source of inner torture and suffering, but also the cause of inflicting pain on others. 

Buddhists explain it this way -- there are many individual minds. There is one universal mind or consciousness. When we see the One in the Many and the Many in the One, then we have overcome separation. This is when suffering ends because we at this point gain wisdom and compassion.


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## stupidjassi (Apr 30, 2008)

aad0002 said:


> stupidjassi ji
> 
> Fair question. You keep me on my toes at all times.


Thanks for kool comment 



aad0002 said:


> The mun that dies at the time of physical death is not the sense of mun that dies in nam simran. when we are still alive The mun that dies "while we are still alive" is the *consciousness *we have of our own "mun". We are conscious of this mun as our personal "mun" and in thinking this way we separate our consciousness from a greater consciousness which is not ours alone. This separation is the source of inner torture and suffering, but also the cause of inflicting pain on others.
> 
> Buddhists explain it this way -- there are many individual minds. There is one universal mind or consciousness. When we see the One in the Many and the Many in the One, then we have overcome separation. This is when suffering ends because we at this point gain wisdom and compassion.



Yeah you are right, Physical Death is not same as Death while Naam simran. But then another question is
-> How mind survive Physical Death of brain ?? ( When there is no brain)

I know my question may be too stupid, but i`m just wondering coz i never got the answer. Gaini sant singh maskeen use to say, " If mind dies when body dies then there is no use of simran coz, you get in reiencration  because of MIND. Now when mind dies (Though naam simran or anything) You`ll never get reincreated again coz you have no mind now"

Please enlight me

thanks
stupidjasssi.com


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## spnadmin (Apr 30, 2008)

Stupidjassi ji

No question so far from you has been stupid as far as I am concerned. 

The mun that leaves with the physical body is the intellect that is governed in the cortex and the emotions that are governed in the mid and lower brain. The consciousness of OUR PERSONAL mun that we have -- does not die.

When we leave our physical body and our consciousness of mun is trapped in duality, then our death is spiritually painful and we reincarnate to go back over old lessons.

When we leave our physical body and our consciousness has been liberated, then our death is not important to us. And neither is OUR mun important to us because it is the cause of suffering. When mun has died unto itself already, then we already understand that Consciousness does not die.

Apologies. I cannot take it further than this as per my spiritual limitations.


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## stupidjassi (Apr 30, 2008)

Thanks for your post.your explaination is amazing. Yeah that`s wht i hear that death of mind means death of reiencrenation , that`s true .i can`t wait to wake up tommorow at amrit vale for Simran. its also getting better.
I have many other question but i guess i should stop asking question and start getting the answers from my own naam simran experiences.

Thanks much
www.stupidjassi.com



aad0002 said:


> Stupidjassi ji
> 
> No question so far from you has been stupid as far as I am concerned.
> 
> ...


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## Astroboy (Apr 30, 2008)

ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਕਾ ਭਉ ਗਇਆ ਭਾਉ ਭਗਤਿ ਗੋਪਾਲ ॥
जनम मरण का भउ गइआ भाउ भगति गोपाल ॥
Janam maraṇ kā bẖa&shy;o ga&shy;i&shy;ā bẖā&shy;o bẖagaṯ gopāl.
The fear of *death *and rebirth is removed by performing loving devotional service to the Lord of the World.
*Guru Arjan Dev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## Sikh80 (Apr 30, 2008)

Dera namjap ji,
It has been stated that mind is made up of five basic elements. Where exactly is the seat of mind?


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## Sikh80 (Apr 30, 2008)

In absence of any reply it is fair to presume that the mind also rests in the vicinity of the Lord or in the lord. Mind is all but a sphere of ideas and thoughts and these cannot vanish.What may happen to the mind after death is that some seniors may like to advise with bani's support.

I feel inclined to believe that mind must have something to do with divinity as the brain is a part of body only and has nothing common with the soul. I cannot say much about the mind though it is made up of the five elements and may lead to conclusion that it is a part of the human body. it should not be as a first surmise. 
Jassi's question is worth load of thoughts that I am not capable of.
There are many allusions and references to the mind in the Bani and there has to be some answer to this question as well else we are all groping in the dark. We here is suggestive of all who are novice like me and do not understand much about the relationship of mind,intellect and the consciousness.

Reply if you wish.
Regards.


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## Sikh80 (Apr 30, 2008)

In absence of any reply it is fair to presume that the mind also rests in the vicinity of the Lord or in the lord. Mind is all but a sphere of ideas and thoughts and these cannot vanish.What may happen to the mind after death is that some seniors may like to advise with bani's support.

I feel inclined to believe that mind must have something to do with divinity as the brain is a part of body only and has nothing common with the soul. I cannot say much about the mind though it is made up of the five elements and may lead to conclusion that it is a part of the human body. it should not be as a first surmise. 
Jassi's question is worth load of thoughts that I am not capable of  any answer as yet. 

There are many allusions and references to the mind in the Bani and there has to be some answer to this question as well else we are all groping in the dark. 'We' here is suggestive of all who are novice like me and do not understand much about the relationship of mind,intellect and the consciousness.

Reply if you wish.
Regards.


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## pk70 (Apr 30, 2008)

stupidjassi Quote

  Well you may be right in your sense ,that we need prayers for encouragement , but again If you pray for ANYTHING , it doesn`t make any sense ,coz its like you are asking God ' Hey God please do this coz i think you should do this' 
  Nothing is outside hukum.
*Stupidjassi ji*

*You have written a very good point to practice in relation to HIM and prayer. Only one thing must be requested for from HIM, that is to have ,in reality ,love for HIM blossomed within us, it can prove then all other “asked things” are immaterial.


*


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## pk70 (Apr 30, 2008)

Stupidjassi Qiote  ..eah you are right, Physical Death is not same as Death while Naam simran. But then another question is
-> How mind survive Physical Death of brain ?? ( When there is no brain)
  I know my question may be too stupid, but i`m just wondering coz i never got the answer. Gaini sant singh maskeen use to say, " If mind dies when body dies then there is no use of simran coz, you get in reiencration because of MIND. Now when mind dies (Though naam simran or anything) You`ll never get reincreated again coz you have no mind now"
Please enlight me


*Actually your question is loaded with curiosity based on reason. As per anatomy of the body, mind doesn’t exist at all. There are different compartments in brains that handle reasoning, feelings, control remains in brain depending over force of feelings or reasoning. There is another thing called soul, Gurbani addresses to soul by talking about its journey from one body to another and its separation from the creator. **Nam** Simran is done for the well being of the soul. In spiritual world, body is just like attire with extra amenities. According that, brain is ********d either for worldly mortal things which just stay here after death or the bodily urges, only soul faces the Creator. For that purpose **Nam** simran is very essential, who refuse all this, they fail to experience what Blessed ones did*.


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## spnadmin (Apr 30, 2008)

One who remains dead while yet alive understands God. He meets that humble being according to the karma of his past actions. || 1 || Listen, O friend — this is how to cross over the terrifying world-ocean. Meet with the Holy, and chant the Lord’s Name || 1 || Pause || There is no other to know, except for the One Lord. So realize that the Supreme Lord God is within each and every heart. || 2 || Whatever He does, accept that as good. Know the value of the beginning and the end. || 3 || Says Nanak, I am a sacrifice to that humble being, within whose heart the Lord dwells. || 4 || 15 || 21 ||


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## Sikh80 (Apr 30, 2008)

ਆਸਾ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੧  ॥ 
Aasaa, First Mehl: 

ਮਨੁ  ਮੈਗਲੁ  ਸਾਕਤੁ  ਦੇਵਾਨਾ  ॥ 
The mind of the faithless cynic is like a crazy elephant. 

ਬਨ  ਖੰਡਿ  ਮਾਇਆ  ਮੋਹਿ  ਹੈਰਾਨਾ  ॥ 
It wanders around the forest, distracted by attachment to Maya. 

ਇਤ  ਉਤ  ਜਾਹਿ  ਕਾਲ  ਕੇ  ਚਾਪੇ  ॥ 
It goes here and there, hounded by death. 

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਖੋਜਿ  ਲਹੈ  ਘਰੁ  ਆਪੇ  ॥੧॥ 
The Gurmukh seeks, and finds his own home. ||1|| 

ਬਿਨੁ  ਗੁਰ  ਸਬਦੈ  ਮਨੁ  ਨਹੀ  ਠਉਰਾ  ॥ 
Without the Word of the Guru's Shabad, the mind finds no place of rest. 

ਸਿਮਰਹੁ  ਰਾਮ  ਨਾਮੁ  ਅਤਿ  ਨਿਰਮਲੁ  ਅਵਰ  ਤਿਆਗਹੁ  ਹਉਮੈ  ਕਉਰਾ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥ 
Remember in meditation the Lord's Name, the most pure and sublime; renounce your bitter egotism. ||1||Pause|| 

ਇਹੁ  ਮਨੁ  ਮੁਗਧੁ  ਕਹਹੁ  ਕਿਉ  ਰਹਸੀ  ॥ 
Tell me, how can this stupid mind be rescued? 

ਬਿਨੁ  ਸਮਝੇ  ਜਮ  ਕਾ  ਦੁਖੁ  ਸਹਸੀ  ॥ 
Without understanding, it shall suffer the pains of death.

ਆਪੇ  ਬਖਸੇ  ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ  ਮੇਲੈ  ॥ 
The Lord Himself forgives us, and unites us with the True Guru. 

ਕਾਲੁ  ਕੰਟਕੁ  ਮਾਰੇ  ਸਚੁ  ਪੇਲੈ  ॥੨॥ 
The True Lord conquers and overcomes the tortures of death. ||2|| 

ਇਹੁ  ਮਨੁ  ਕਰਮਾ  ਇਹੁ  ਮਨੁ  ਧਰਮਾ  ॥ 
This mind commits its deeds of karma, and this mind follows the Dharma. 

ਇਹੁ  ਮਨੁ  ਪੰਚ  ਤਤੁ  ਤੇ  ਜਨਮਾ  ॥ 
This mind is born of the five elements. 

ਸਾਕਤੁ  ਲੋਭੀ  ਇਹੁ  ਮਨੁ  ਮੂੜਾ  ॥ 
This foolish mind is *******ed and greedy. 

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਨਾਮੁ  ਜਪੈ  ਮਨੁ  ਰੂੜਾ  ॥੩॥ 
Chanting the Naam, the mind of the Gurmukh becomes beautiful. ||3|| 

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਮਨੁ  ਅਸਥਾਨੇ  ਸੋਈ  ॥ 
The mind of the Gurmukh finds the Lord's home. 

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣਿ  ਸੋਝੀ  ਹੋਈ  ॥ 
The Gurmukh comes to know the three worlds. 

ਇਹੁ  ਮਨੁ  ਜੋਗੀ  ਭੋਗੀ  ਤਪੁ  ਤਾਪੈ  ॥ 
This mind is a Yogi, an enjoyer, a practicer of austerities. 

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਚੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ  ਹਰਿ  ਪ੍ਰਭੁ  ਆਪੈ  ॥੪॥ 
The Gurmukh understands the Lord God Himself. ||4|| 

ਮਨੁ  ਬੈਰਾਗੀ  ਹਉਮੈ  ਤਿਆਗੀ  ॥ 
This mind is a detached renunciate, forsaking egotism. 

ਘਟਿ  ਘਟਿ  ਮਨਸਾ  ਦੁਬਿਧਾ  ਲਾਗੀ  ॥ 
Desire and duality afflict each and every heart. 

ਰਾਮ  ਰਸਾਇਣੁ  ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਚਾਖੈ  ॥ 
The Gurmukh drinks in the Lord's sublime essence; 

ਦਰਿ  ਘਰਿ  ਮਹਲੀ  ਹਰਿ  ਪਤਿ  ਰਾਖੈ  ॥੫॥ 
at His Door, in the Mansion of the Lord's Presence, He preserves his honor. ||5|| 

ਇਹੁ  ਮਨੁ  ਰਾਜਾ  ਸੂਰ  ਸੰਗ੍ਰਾਮਿ  ॥ 
This mind is the king, the hero of cosmic battles. 

ਇਹੁ  ਮਨੁ  ਨਿਰਭਉ  ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਨਾਮਿ  ॥ 
The mind of the Gurmukh becomes fearless through the Naam. 

ਮਾਰੇ  ਪੰਚ  ਅਪੁਨੈ  ਵਸਿ  ਕੀਏ  ॥ 
Overpowering and subduing the five passions, 

ਹਉਮੈ  ਗ੍ਰਾਸਿ  ਇਕਤੁ  ਥਾਇ  ਕੀਏ  ॥੬॥ 
holding ego in its grip, it confines them to one place. ||6|| 

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਰਾਗ  ਸੁਆਦ  ਅਨ  ਤਿਆਗੇ  ॥ 
The Gurmukh renounces other songs and tastes. 

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਇਹੁ  ਮਨੁ  ਭਗਤੀ  ਜਾਗੇ  ॥ 
The mind of the Gurmukh is awakened to devotion. 

ਅਨਹਦ  ਸੁਣਿ  ਮਾਨਿਆ  ਸਬਦੁ  ਵੀਚਾਰੀ  ॥ 
Hearing the unstruck music of the sound current, this mind contemplates the Shabad, and accepts it. 

ਆਤਮੁ  ਚੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ  ਭਏ  ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੀ  ॥੭॥ 
Understanding itself, this soul becomes attuned to the Formless Lord. ||7|| 

ਇਹੁ  ਮਨੁ  ਨਿਰਮਲੁ  ਦਰਿ  ਘਰਿ  ਸੋਈ  ॥ 
This mind becomes immaculately pure, in the Court and the Home of the Lord. 

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਭਗਤਿ  ਭਾਉ  ਧੁਨਿ  ਹੋਈ  ॥ 
The Gurmukh shows his love through loving devotional worship. 

ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ  ਹਰਿ  ਜਸੁ  ਗੁਰ  ਪਰਸਾਦਿ  ॥ 
Night and day, by Guru's Grace, sing the Lord's Praises. 

ਘਟਿ  ਘਟਿ  ਸੋ  ਪ੍ਰਭੁ  ਆਦਿ  ਜੁਗਾਦਿ  ॥੮॥ 
God dwells in each and every heart, since the very beginning of time, and throughout the ages. ||8|| 

ਰਾਮ  ਰਸਾਇਣਿ  ਇਹੁ  ਮਨੁ  ਮਾਤਾ  ॥ 
This mind is intoxicated with the sublime essence of the Lord; 

ਸਰਬ  ਰਸਾਇਣੁ  ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਜਾਤਾ  ॥ 
The Gurmukh realizes the essence of totality. 

ਭਗਤਿ  ਹੇਤੁ  ਗੁਰ  ਚਰਣ  ਨਿਵਾਸਾ  ॥ 
For the sake of devotional worship, he dwells at the Guru's Feet. 

ਨਾਨਕ  ਹਰਿ  ਜਨ  ਕੇ  ਦਾਸਨਿ  ਦਾਸਾ  ॥੯॥੮॥ 
Nanak is the humble servant of the slave of the Lord's slaves. ||9||8|| 


With all the regards to all those who have participated in this thread , It is to state that mind has been stated to be made up of five elements. It is ,therefore, subject to death as well. I had an inkling of this though I was not sure. A search has shown that it is also as per the bani  the way I have interpreted , may be there is some other meaning in the wider context.  

Though the above deals exhaustively with mind yet it states clearly that mind is of five basic elements. The above is taken from ang 415 of SGGS. 
Mind is also subject to death, hence it should exist and be within the cycle of life and death and be present within us ;It may be a literal way of interpreting things. It should get rest only when we find the liberation or attain the state of merger.it is a logical flow.

I am subject to correction, of course. It is also believed that the discussion is of academic interest. 


It would be a privilege to be guided.

Panch tatva= Five Basic elements


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## Astroboy (May 1, 2008)

ਸੁਆਨ ਪੂਛ ਜਿਉ ਭਇਓ ਨ ਸੂਧਉ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਜਤਨੁ ਮੈ  ਕੀਨਉ ॥
सुआन पूछ जिउ भइओ न सूधउ बहुतु जतनु मै  कीनउ ॥
Su*ān pūcẖẖ ji*o bẖa*i*o na sūḏẖa*o  bahuṯ jaṯan mai kīn*o.
Like a dog's *tail*, which will never straighten out, the mind will  not change, no matter how many things are tried.
*Guru Teg Bahadur*   -  [SIZE=-1]view  Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## Sikh80 (May 1, 2008)

Respected all,

The following shabad has an allusion to mind. Yes namjap ji, we all know that mind is camel like and it is difficult to control.It can be controlled if it is in alignment with the edict of Naam /Simran. It requires a reconciliation. The input provided are meant for thinking or veechar though all that we understand about mind is that it is not to be tamed in any other manner except stated above i.e. Simran.
The colored portion needs dwelling and guidance. The ultimate seat of mind is already defined/stated in this shabad. 

Regards
​
Raag Gauree Gwaarayree, Ashtapadees Of Kabeer Jee:​
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
People beg for pleasure, but pain comes instead.

I would rather not beg for that pleasure. ||1||
People are involved in corruption, but still, they hope for pleasure.
How will they find their home in the Sovereign Lord King? ||1||Pause||
Even Shiva and Brahma are afraid of this pleasure,
but I have judged that pleasure to be true. ||2||
Even sages like Sanak and Naarad, and the thousand-headed serpent,
did not see the mind within the body. ||3||

Anyone can search for this mind, O Siblings of Destiny.
When it escapes from the body, where does the mind go? ||4||
By Guru's Grace, Jai Dayv and Naam Dayv
came to know this, through loving devotional worship of the Lord. ||5||
This mind does not come or go.
One whose doubt is dispelled, knows the Truth. ||6||

This mind has no form or outline.
By God's Command it was created; understanding God's Command, it will be absorbed into Him again. ||7||
Does anyone know the secret of this mind?
This mind shall merge into the Lord, the Giver of peace and pleasure. ||8||

There is One Soul, and it pervades all bodies.
Kabeer dwells upon this Mind. ||9||1||36||​


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## stupidjassi (May 1, 2008)

Thanks Everyone to take part in this Dicussion and Thanks Sikh80 to bring out this wonderful shabad which tells us a lot of thing. 
however i was thinking about this today in Bus. What i made of sense of all the discussion is that:

1. There is a brain which Contain Consciousness . 
2. Brain Dies when person die and brain Born with when person born.
3. Mind is mere Consciousness 
4. When we Die we take some Consciousness with us , which might travel with our soul when we get reiencrated.
5. In the Next reincarnation , Our Consciousness from past Live(s) is still with us.
   a) Then our brain develope with time (From childhood )
   b) Our brain need Consciousness , so it attracts Consciousness from our Higher self, the Consciousness  we brought from past lives .
 ( This is the reason why people find big change in their life in their teenage,because before teenage our mind was not so much developed to attract enought Consciousness  from past life, It was a fresh *mind ,* but now in age 15-21, we are not only getting new experiences but also Consciousness from our past life. So get moulded according to that.
In some people their Consciousness from past life put effect in their early childhood . They start questioning the existance of universe/humanity from early age,because their Consciousness from past life was this.

In another case if we become animal /birds/insect we`ll never able to attract our Consciousness  from our past life, because our brain is not so much developed .


So this is just one of the exaplaination of the Mind-Soul problem. I am not 100% sure about this. Its just what i think  , and i wanted to share with you guys..

Thanks
stupidjassi











Sikh80 said:


> Respected all,
> 
> The following shabad has an allusion to mind. Yes namjap ji, we all know that mind is camel like and it is difficult to control.It can be controlled if it is in alignment with the edict of Naam /Simran. It requires a reconciliation. The input provided are meant for thinking or veechar though all that we understand about mind is that it is not to be tamed in any other manner except stated above i.e. Simran.
> The colored portion needs dwelling and guidance. The ultimate seat of mind is already defined/stated in this shabad.
> ...


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## Sikh80 (May 2, 2008)

Dear jassi ji,

Your logic appears to be in perfect flow. 

Yes, as per the understanding of medical experts there is no seat of mind in the body. But mind has been stated to be of five elements only that also constitute our physical body and should ,therefore, be subject to life and death. I do not understand this line of bani. 

I have been thinking it over for the last 24 hours and have not slept. I shall try to answer you as and when I am convinced about that I state. Mind should be a part of brain and should be subservient to it. Let us see how the things work out.

Kindly bear with me. In any case no one has even seen one's brain or the bones. All are as ignorant or as knowledgeable as we are.


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## Sikh80 (May 2, 2008)

I do not expect that aad ji would react to this. she is too busy elsewhere.


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## spnadmin (May 2, 2008)

Jios,

I couldn't get onto SPN for almost 24 hours. First chance was only 3 hours ago around 1130 hours -5 GMT my time.  This was because of the software upgrades.

There is a lot to read. People posted a lot of things and a lot of Gurbani. It will take me time to digest all of these comments. But I am glad to be back and reading what you are writing.


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## stupidjassi (May 4, 2008)

Why dont we all ASk our perfect guru for answer ??? Let`s take Hukumnama from Golden temple ( may 6th) . Let Guru tell us what is the Correct answer. 

What do you guys think?
let`s pray for hukumnama


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## spnadmin (May 4, 2008)

Good idea stupidjassi ji

Here is the answer for today,

Awsw ]
aasaa ||
_Aasaa:_

swsu kI duKI ssur kI ipAwrI jyT ky nwim frau ry ]
saas kee dhukhee sasur kee piaaree jaet(h) kae naam ddaro rae ||
_I am bothered by my mother-in-law, Maya, and loved by my father-in-law, the Lord. I fear even the name of my husband’s elder brother, Death._

sKI shylI nnd ghylI dyvr kY ibrih jrau ry ]1]
sakhee sehaelee nanadh gehaelee dhaevar kai birehi jaro rae ||1||
_O my mates and companions, my husband’s sister, misunderstanding has seized me, and I am burning with the pain of separation from my husband’s younger brother, divine knowledge. ||1||_

myrI miq baurI mY rwmu ibswirE ikn ibiD rhin rhau ry ]
maeree math bouree mai raam bisaariou kin bidhh rehan reho rae ||
_My mind has gone insane, since I forgot the Lord. How can I lead a virtuous lifestyle?_

syjY rmqu nYn nhI pyKau iehu duKu kw sau khau ry ]1] rhwau ]
saejai ramath nain nehee paekho eihu dhukh kaa so keho rae ||1|| rehaao ||
_He rests in the bed of my mind, but I cannot see Him with my eyes. Unto whom should I tell my sufferings? ||1||Pause||_

bwpu swvkw krY lrweI mwieAw sd mqvwrI ]
baap saavakaa karai laraaee maaeiaa sadh mathavaaree ||
_My step-father, egotism, fights with me, and my mother, desire, is always intoxicated._

bfy BweI kY jb sMig hoqI qb hau nwh ipAwrI ]2]
baddae bhaaee kai jab sa(n)g hothee thab ho naah piaaree ||2||
_When I stayed with my elder brother, meditation, then I was loved by my Husband Lord. ||2||_

khq kbIr pMc ko Jgrw Jgrq jnmu gvwieAw ]
kehath kabeer pa(n)ch ko jhagaraa jhagarath janam gavaaeiaa ||
_Says Kabeer, the five passions argue with me, and in these arguments, my life is wasting awa__y._

JUTI mwieAw sBu jgu bwiDAw mY rwm rmq suKu pwieAw ]3]3]25]
jhoot(h)ee maaeiaa sabh jag baadhhiaa mai raam ramath sukh paaeiaa ||3||3||25||
_The false Maya has bound the whole world, but I have obtained peace, chanting the Name of the Lord. ||3||3||25||__ 

Funny you have made that suggestion, because last night - this morning May 4 at Harimandir, I read the hukam and thought of this thread. Psychic connection, stupidjassji.
_


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## stupidjassi (May 6, 2008)

Here is from 6th May
* qwpu gvwieAw guir pUry ] vwjy Anhd qUry ] srb kilAwx pRiB kIny ] kir ikrpw Awip dIny ]1]bydn siqguir Awip gvweI ] isK sMq siB srsy hoey hir hir nwim iDAweI ] rhwau ] jo mMgih so lyvih ] pRB ApixAw sMqw dyvih ] hir goivdu pRiB rwiKAw ] jn nwnk swcu suBwiKAw]2]6]70]*

 pUry gurU ny hir-nwm dI dvweI dy ky ijs mnu`K dy AMdroN qwp dUr kr id`qw, aus dy AMdr Awqmk AwnMd dy mwnoN iek-rs vwjy v`jx l`g pey[ pRBU ny ikrpw krky Awp hI aus swry suK AwnMd b^S id`qy[1[ hy BweI! swry is`K sMq prmwqmw dw nwm ismr ismr ky AwnMd-BrpUr hoey rihMdy hn[ ijs ny BI prmwqmw dw nwm ismirAw, gurU ny Awp aus dI hryk pIVw dUr kr id`qI[ rhwau[hy pRBU! qyry dr qoN qyry sMq jn jo kuJ BI mMgdy hn, auh hwsl kr lYNdy hn[ qUM Awpxy sMqW nUM Awp sB kuJ dyNdw hYN[ hy BweI! bwlk hir-goibMd nUM BI pRBU ny Awp bcwieAw hY, iksy dyvI Awidk ny nhIN[ hy dws nwnk! AwK- mYN qW sdw iQr rihx vwly pRBU dw nwm hI aucwrdw hW[2[6[70[

  The Perfect Guru has dispelled the fever. The unstruck melody of the sound current resounds. God has bestowed all comforts. In His Mercy, He Himself has given them. || 1 || The True Guru Himself has eradicated the disease. All the Sikhs and Saints are filled with joy, meditating on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. || Pause || They obtain that which they ask for. God gives to His Saints. God saved Hargobind. Servant Nanak speaks the Truth. || 2 || 6 || 70 ||


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## stupidjassi (May 7, 2008)

By analysing the above hukunmana: (It clearly shows)

1. Simran is done for cure of disease. 
2. Note the Line ( *They obtain that which they ask for*.) 
This is an important Line which require attention. It describes that Whatever the Naam practitioner has asked for he did obtain by Lord himself. now the question is what shall a Naam practitioner can ask? He`ll never ask wordly things for sure . He`ll never ask any nonsense. They Always seek the truth and they got the truth by God Himself. In the same way Guru Hargobind ji got enlighted. 5th Nanak further says 'belive me' ' I have spoken the truth' .

So clearly Guru ji are saying us that Simran followed by feeling of unstuck sound of Vibration will eradicated all false lies. Something like a little candle dispell the dark.

So again Go strong with you simran. explorer yourself. Ther`s certianly something out there.

thanks 
stupidjassi








stupidjassi said:


> Here is from 6th May
> * qwpu gvwieAw guir pUry ] vwjy Anhd qUry ] srb kilAwx pRiB kIny ] kir ikrpw Awip dIny ]1]bydn siqguir Awip gvweI ] isK sMq siB srsy hoey hir hir nwim iDAweI ] rhwau ] jo mMgih so lyvih ] pRB ApixAw sMqw dyvih ] hir goivdu pRiB rwiKAw ] jn nwnk swcu suBwiKAw]2]6]70]*
> 
> pUry gurU ny hir-nwm dI dvweI dy ky ijs mnu`K dy AMdroN qwp dUr kr id`qw, aus dy AMdr Awqmk AwnMd dy mwnoN iek-rs vwjy v`jx l`g pey[ pRBU ny ikrpw krky Awp hI aus swry suK AwnMd b^S id`qy[1[ hy BweI! swry is`K sMq prmwqmw dw nwm ismr ismr ky AwnMd-BrpUr hoey rihMdy hn[ ijs ny BI prmwqmw dw nwm ismirAw, gurU ny Awp aus dI hryk pIVw dUr kr id`qI[ rhwau[hy pRBU! qyry dr qoN qyry sMq jn jo kuJ BI mMgdy hn, auh hwsl kr lYNdy hn[ qUM Awpxy sMqW nUM Awp sB kuJ dyNdw hYN[ hy BweI! bwlk hir-goibMd nUM BI pRBU ny Awp bcwieAw hY, iksy dyvI Awidk ny nhIN[ hy dws nwnk! AwK- mYN qW sdw iQr rihx vwly pRBU dw nwm hI aucwrdw hW[2[6[70[
> ...


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## Sikh80 (May 7, 2008)

stupidjassi said:


> By analysing the above hukunmana: (It clearly shows)
> 
> 2. Note the Line ( *They obtain that which they ask for*.)
> thanks
> stupidjassi




Yes, we all get that we expect and hope or desire whether in this life or the next and this is what Hindus/Vedantists call as 'Sankalpa' or the impressions of/on mind. 

It is for this reason that Guru sahibs have advised that we should not have either hope or desire and we should be involved in selfless service and we should not be bothered about the fruits of the actions. It is the same that is stated in Hindu scriptures.

Where is the difference ?
It is a part of sikh philosophy as well.


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## pk70 (May 7, 2008)

Quote
By analysing the above hukunmana: (It clearly shows)

1. Simran is done for cure of disease. 
2. Note the Line ( *They obtain that which they ask for*.) 
This is an important Line which require attention. It describes that Whatever the Naam practitioner has asked for he did obtain by Lord himself. now the question is what shall a Naam practitioner can ask? He`ll never ask wordly things for sure . He`ll never ask any nonsense. They Always seek the truth and they got the truth by God Himself. In the same way Guru Hargobind ji got enlighted. 5th Nanak further says 'belive me' ' I have spoken the truth' .

*Jassi ji

Guru Shabad is not about what you are saying. Look at the reference to Guru Hargobind. People got worried about when Guru's only son caught a disease and being "mannmatte they started saying to Guru to do some thing to cure the only child. It is Guru's humble response" Gods devotees should not worry HE takes care of them." It also says that Devotee leaves every thing to HIM, in this case God stood by him to save the only child.It is humble thanks. Inspiration is to be faithful to HIM unconditionally regardless the problem. We do not guess any thing out of it. There is not a word of enlightenment of Hargobind.
Hope you understand that. Thanks.*


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## Astroboy (May 8, 2008)

ਵਡੀ ਆਰਜਾ ਹਰਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ  ਕੀ ਸੂਖ ਮੰਗਲ ਕਲਿਆਣ ਬੀਚਾਰਿਆ  ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ  ॥
वडी आरजा हरि गोबिंद की सूख मंगल  कलिआण बीचारिआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
vadī ārjā har gobinḏ kī sūkẖ  mangal kali*āṇ bīcẖāri*ā. ||1|| rahā*o.
He  has blessed Hargobind with long life, and taken care of my comfort, happiness  and well-being. ||1||Pause||


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## stupidjassi (May 8, 2008)

As i was searching for my quest . I have found following verses in Sri Guru Granth Sahib.  
*This is **excetly **what i was looking for .   


Page 946
*

ਜਾ  ਇਹੁ  ਹਿਰਦਾ  ਦੇਹ  ਨ  ਹੋਤੀ  ਤਉ  ਮਨੁ  ਕੈਠੈ  ਰਹਤਾ  ॥ 
जा इहु हिरदा देह न होती तउ मनु कैठै रहता ॥ 
Jā ih hirḏā ḏėh na hoṯī ṯa*o man kaiṯẖai rahṯā. 
When this heart and body did not exist, where did the mind reside? 

ਨਾਭਿ  ਕਮਲ  ਅਸਥੰਭੁ  ਨ  ਹੋਤੋ  ਤਾ  ਪਵਨੁ  ਕਵਨ  ਘਰਿ  ਸਹਤਾ  ॥ 
नाभि कमल असथ्मभु न होतो ता पवनु कवन घरि सहता ॥ 
Nābẖ kamal asthambẖ na hoṯo ṯā pavan kavan gẖar sahṯā. 
When there was no support of the navel lotus, then in which home did the breath reside? 

ਰੂਪੁ  ਨ  ਹੋਤੋ  ਰੇਖ  ਨ  ਕਾਈ  ਤਾ  ਸਬਦਿ  ਕਹਾ  ਲਿਵ  ਲਾਈ  ॥ 
रूपु न होतो रेख न काई ता सबदि कहा लिव लाई ॥ 
Rūp na hoṯo rėkẖ na kā*ī ṯā sabaḏ kahā liv lā*ī. 
When there was no form or shape, then how could anyone lovingly focus on the Shabad? 

ਰਕਤੁ  ਬਿੰਦੁ  ਕੀ  ਮੜੀ  ਨ  ਹੋਤੀ  ਮਿਤਿ  ਕੀਮਤਿ  ਨਹੀ  ਪਾਈ  ॥ 
रकतु बिंदु की मड़ी न होती मिति कीमति नही पाई ॥ 
Rakaṯ binḏ kī maṛī na hoṯī miṯ kīmaṯ nahī pā*ī. 
When there was no dungeon formed from egg and sperm, who could measure the Lord's value and extent? 

ਵਰਨੁ  ਭੇਖੁ  ਅਸਰੂਪੁ  ਨ  ਜਾਪੀ  ਕਿਉ  ਕਰਿ  ਜਾਪਸਿ  ਸਾਚਾ  ॥ 
वरनु भेखु असरूपु न जापी किउ करि जापसि साचा ॥ 
varan bẖėkẖ asrūp na jāpī ki*o kar jāpas sācẖā. 
When color, dress and form could not be seen, how could the True Lord be known? 

ਨਾਨਕ  ਨਾਮਿ  ਰਤੇ  ਬੈਰਾਗੀ  ਇਬ  ਤਬ  ਸਾਚੋ  ਸਾਚਾ  ॥੬੬॥ 
नानक नामि रते बैरागी इब तब साचो साचा ॥६६॥ 
Nānak nām raṯė bairāgī ib ṯab sācẖo sācẖā. ||66|| 
O Nanak, those who are attuned to the Naam, the Name of the Lord, are detached. Then and now, they see the Truest of the True. ||66|| 

ਹਿਰਦਾ  ਦੇਹ  ਨ  ਹੋਤੀ  ਅਉਧੂ  ਤਉ  ਮਨੁ  ਸੁੰਨਿ  ਰਹੈ  ਬੈਰਾਗੀ  ॥ 
हिरदा देह न होती अउधू तउ मनु सुंनि रहै बैरागी ॥ 
Hirḏā ḏėh na hoṯī a*oḏẖū ṯa*o man sunn rahai bairāgī. 
When the heart and the body did not exist, O hermit, then the mind resided in the absolute, detached Lord. 

ਨਾਭਿ  ਕਮਲੁ  ਅਸਥੰਭੁ  ਨ  ਹੋਤੋ  ਤਾ  ਨਿਜ  ਘਰਿ  ਬਸਤਉ  ਪਵਨੁ  ਅਨਰਾਗੀ  ॥ 
नाभि कमलु असथ्मभु न होतो ता निज घरि बसतउ पवनु अनरागी ॥ 
Nābẖ kamal asthambẖ na hoṯo ṯā nij gẖar basṯa*o pavan anrāgī. 
When there was no support of the lotus of the navel, the breath remained in its own home, attuned to the Lord's Love. 

ਰੂਪੁ  ਨ  ਰੇਖਿਆ  ਜਾਤਿ  ਨ  ਹੋਤੀ  ਤਉ  ਅਕੁਲੀਣਿ  ਰਹਤਉ  ਸਬਦੁ  ਸੁ  ਸਾਰੁ  ॥ 
रूपु न रेखिआ जाति न होती तउ अकुलीणि रहतउ सबदु सु सारु ॥ 
Rūp na rėkẖ*i*ā jāṯ na hoṯī ṯa*o akulīṇ rahṯa*o sabaḏ so sār. 
When there was no form or shape or social class, then the Shabad, in its essence, resided in the unmanifest Lord. 

ਗਉਨੁ  ਗਗਨੁ  ਜਬ  ਤਬਹਿ  ਨ  ਹੋਤਉ  ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ  ਜੋਤਿ  ਆਪੇ  ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ  ॥ 
गउनु गगनु जब तबहि न होतउ त्रिभवण जोति आपे निरंकारु ॥ 
Ga*un gagan jab ṯabeh na hoṯa*o ṯaribẖavaṇ joṯ āpė nirankār. 
When the world and the sky did not even exist, the Light of the Formless Lord filled the three worlds.

ਵਰਨੁ  ਭੇਖੁ  ਅਸਰੂਪੁ  ਸੁ  ਏਕੋ  ਏਕੋ  ਸਬਦੁ  ਵਿਡਾਣੀ  ॥ 
वरनु भेखु असरूपु सु एको एको सबदु विडाणी ॥ 
varan bẖėkẖ asrūp so ėko ėko sabaḏ vidāṇī. 
Color, dress and form were contained in the One Lord; the Shabad was contained in the One, Wondrous Lord. 

ਸਾਚ  ਬਿਨਾ  ਸੂਚਾ  ਕੋ  ਨਾਹੀ  ਨਾਨਕ  ਅਕਥ  ਕਹਾਣੀ  ॥੬੭॥ 
साच बिना सूचा को नाही नानक अकथ कहाणी ॥६७॥ 
Sācẖ binā sūcẖā ko nāhī Nānak akath kahāṇī. ||67|| 
Without the True Name, no one can become pure; O Nanak, this is the Unspoken Speech. ||67|| 
(forgive me if somebody else has already posted out)


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## stupidjassi (May 8, 2008)

ONe more thing please read the conjuncted pages 944,946 etc. from Guru Granth Sahib for more exploration.


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