# Naming A Sikh Baby



## bhaikhalsasingh (Apr 27, 2010)

My brother has just been blessed with a Prince!

He has been the Gurdwara, done the ardas and got the Hukumnama (??) for naming the child.  He's got the alphabet to begin the child's name with.

This alphabet is the same as his (the father) own name.  We'd like the child to be named the same name as his father (like XXX Sr for the father and XXX Jr for the son).

Is this allowed in Sikh faith?

Appreciate an early response as we have only a few more days to reguster the baby and name him.  Thank you.


----------



## spnadmin (Apr 27, 2010)

Welcome bhaikhalsasingh ji

What you are asking is not typical of how a Sikh baby is named. The Sikh Rehat Maryada has laid this out in Chapter 11, section a. And I have copied it below for you.

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]*Chapter 11*[/FONT]
 [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]Ceremonies pertaining to Birth and Naming  of Child[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica] Article XVII [/FONT]
 [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica](a) In a Sikh’s household, as soon after  the birth of a child as the mother becomes capable of moving about and  taking  bath (irrespective of the number of days which that takes), the family  and  relatives should go to a gurdwara with Karah Parshad (sacred pudding) or  get  Karah Parshad made in the gurdwara and recite in the holy presence of  the Guru  Granth Sahib such hymns as “parmeshar ditta banna” (Sorath M. 5),  “Satguru sache  dia bhej” (Asa M. 5)) that are expressive of joy and thankfulness.  Thereafter if  a reading of the holy Guru Granth Sahib had been taken up, that should  be  concluded. Then the holy Hukam (command) should be taken. A name  starting with  the first letter of the hymn of the Hukam (command) should be proposed  by the  granthi (man in attendance of the holy book) and, after its acceptance  by the  congregation, the name should be announced by him. The boy’s name must  have the  suffix “Singh” and the girl’s, the suffix “Kaur”. 
[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]
[/FONT]
 [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]After that the Anand Sahib (short version  comprising six stanzas) should be recited and the Ardas in appropriate  terms  expressing joy over the naming ceremony be offered and the Karah Parshad   distributed. 
[/FONT]

In reality more than one name will be obvious to all in relation that one letter. So family and friends in attendance can discuss and pick.

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]More details about Sikh ceremonies at this link Sikhism - Sikh Rehat Maryada
[/FONT]


----------



## jasbirkaleka (Apr 27, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Welcome bhaikhalsasingh ji
> 
> What you are asking is not typical of how a Sikh baby is named. The Sikh Rehat Maryada has laid this out in Chapter 11, section a. And I have copied it below for you.
> 
> ...


ikonkaar
Well,Well,well.
Did Guru Arjan Dev JI spend so much time and energy compiling, ,editing and setting to music  SGGS so we could find names for our children?
THIS IS SHEER SUPERSTITION  AND RITUALISM AND ABSOLUTELY AGAINST THE TEACHINGS OF OUR GREATEST GURU, GURU NANAK.


----------



## bhaikhalsasingh (Apr 27, 2010)

Hi, thanx for the quick response.

Firstly, I do not know why you say its "not typical" ... is it the order in which the ardas, hukumnama, etc were written by me?  My ignorance.

MY QUESTION however is ... having got the 'initial' by the granthi ... it happens to be the same as the initial of the father's name .... NOW, can we name the child with the same name??

ie is it ok to have father & son named the same, eg Malkit Singh (father) and Malkit Singh (son) ????


----------



## spnadmin (Apr 27, 2010)

jasbirkaleka ji

Let us separate facts from opinions here. The Sikh Rehat Maryada was crafted as the code of conduct which most follow. Please do not castigate this document as superstitution. Read it first. Then you will notice how time and again the Sikh Rehat Maryada warns against superstitions. 

I know that your own personal journey into Sikhi has taken you down a path that challenges many of the beliefs that have held sway since the SRM was crafted. That is your choice.

But please hold your fire and don't empty all the bullets in your gun before you have taken the time to put things into context. The SRM is still the code of conduct. It has not been repealed, though Sant Samaaj would like to see that happen.

 We have had this discussion before when you found me short on what counts. In the end you had to take back your words.

First make it clear that you object to the Sikh Rehat Maryada, then tell us why, then give your alternative explanation.


----------



## bhaikhalsasingh (Apr 27, 2010)

Hmmm, Jasbir ji .... what do U mean?  That we should not get the name from the SGGS ??  Then how?? Pleae enlighten me ... and QUICK ... we have to register the child soon.


----------



## spnadmin (Apr 27, 2010)

bhaikhalsasingh said:


> Hi, thanx for the quick response.
> 
> Firstly, I do not know why you say its "not typical" ... is it the order in which the ardas, hukumnama, etc were written by me?  My ignorance.
> 
> ...




I see. You had already been to gurdwara for this ceremony. I misread that part. When I read your post it sounded like you were discussing a name in advance. If I have confused matters, please forgive.  I was trying to say -- that the letter is drawn first and then the name is selected through discussion.


----------



## bhaikhalsasingh (Apr 27, 2010)

Yes Narayanjot ...
We've done all the 'right' way (except Sardar Jasbir may find it unnecessary ... anyway, its done!).

My question is simply this ::::  can a Sikh boy take his father's name as his own too?
(eg Malkit Singh son of Malkit Singh). In daily usaged the "son of ...." would not come into play.


----------



## spnadmin (Apr 27, 2010)

bhaikhalsasingh ji

 I am sorry I missed that originally and we have come full circle. I feel bad about that. My understanding is that culturally one does not give a baby the name of the father. More often, if it is to be a family name, a grandfather, or uncle from a different generation. As you can see the SRM does not prohibit it.


----------



## bhaikhalsasingh (Apr 27, 2010)

As you say _"As you can see the SRM does not prohibit it."_ ... that's really what I was looking for.

We do not plan/intend to be egoistic or anything ... but as a family, we like to be at the _forefront_ of anything we do ... provided it is legal and allowed by our Sikh philosophy. 

Yes, naming one's child the same as his father is not common in Punjabi/Sikhi culture. But the goreys do it ... Donald Trump Sr and Donald Trump Jr.  

If it's allowed, we'd like to do it. Being the first often gets criticised by some and congratulated by others 

And Naranyanjot ji .. no need for the apologies ... it happens when you trying to respond quickly (just like it happened to uncle Jasbir ... Kaleke is my maternal side!)


----------



## spnadmin (Apr 27, 2010)

bhaikhalsasingh ji

I appreciate your kindness. The nice thing about the SRM is that it is so different from the lengthy lists of _do's_ and _don'ts _one finds elsewhere. The matter of naming is grounded in Gurbani. SGGS is not about creating straight-jackets but about freeing us to get priorities straight and serve Akaal, the panth, and humanity. So I breathe a sigh of relief when I read it.

"And, Being the first often gets criticised by some and congratulated by  others "   *  Just smile.*


----------



## jasbirkaleka (Apr 27, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> jasbirkaleka ji
> 
> Let us separate facts from opinions here. The Sikh Rehat Maryada was crafted as the code of conduct which most follow. Please do not castigate this document as superstitution. Read it first. Then you will notice how time and again the Sikh Rehat Maryada warns against superstitions.
> 
> ...



GURU NANAK  DEV JI IS MY FIRST TEACHER and anything that does not pass the litmus-test of his teachings is voodoo to me.


----------



## Admin (Apr 27, 2010)

jasbirkaleka said:


> GURU NANAK  DEV JI IS MY FIRST TEACHER and anything that does not pass the litmus-test of his teachings is voodoo to me.


Gurfateh Jasbir ji, 

I think, you would like to elaborate on your statement. Did you mean to say Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

Thank You


----------



## bhaikhalsasingh (Apr 28, 2010)

Thank you Aman Singh ji, Narayanjot ji and Jasbir ji ... the response was quick and has cleared certain doubts in my mind.

Aside from the little 'drama' in couple of the posts above, the discussions have been to-the-point, clear and most importantly as I had hoped, fast.  We can now proceed with the registration process.

I'd like to offer my appreciation here to Aman Singh ji for the very professional forum here. To be honest, this wasn't the first place I visited in seeking this info.  For example, on SikhNet (definitely better known), there was hardly any response and the couple that trickled thru argued about certain semantics, etc.  

Here, we had the site's admins step in and offer guidance to newbies like me.  I like that!

There should be no doubt which forum I'd be visiting more in the future as well as recommending to my friends 

Thank you once again. May Waheguru bless the great seva Aman Singh & his team is doing.


----------



## spnadmin (Apr 28, 2010)

Your response could not be more encouraging for us!


----------



## choprakj (Dec 28, 2010)

Unneccessary Discussions,The Hukumnama guides towards intial only why your child has to be named same as you,'M" Can be Manvinder,MohanJot,Manmaohan.........................................................

Regards,& Best Wishes


KJSrangesingh:


----------



## jasbirkaleka (Dec 29, 2010)

Aman Singh said:


> Gurfateh Jasbir ji,
> 
> I think, you would like to elaborate on your statement. Did you mean to say Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?
> 
> ...


----------



## findingmyway (Dec 29, 2010)

Jasbir ji,
I agree that the Guru Granth Sahib ji is the litmus test. I am however at a loss to understand how you can reject the entire SRM as it was formed based on the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib ji. Sometimes the misunderstanding is ours as we do not know about the historical event that has triggered a particular clause for example. It probably does need updating considering that time has moved on but to say the whole thing is voodoo seems incredibly strong and shows lack of understanding of the spirit & purpose of the document.


----------



## spnadmin (Dec 29, 2010)

Sangat ji

I have already put 2 other members on notice that references to SRM as mumbo jumbo or similar perjorative terms are violations of TOS, and will be dealt with accordingly. This is a warning for this thread. 

for those who have a* sincere interest in the philosophy and history of SRM * there are many good resources. Here is one of them. I will add more.

http://www.sikhchic.com/article-detail.php?id=583&cat=19

Here is another one

http://www.sikhtimes.com/books_072205a.html

And another on gender and sex

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/29191-gender-sex-sikhism-i-j-singh.html


----------



## jasbirkaleka (Dec 29, 2010)

findingmyway said:


> Jasbir ji,
> I agree that the Guru Granth Sahib ji is the litmus test. I am however at a loss to understand how you can reject the entire SRM as it was formed based on the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib ji. Sometimes the misunderstanding is ours as we do not know about the historical event that has triggered a particular clause for example. It probably does need updating considering that time has moved on but to say the whole thing is voodoo seems incredibly strong and shows lack of understanding of the spirit & purpose of the document.


 

findingmyway ji,
SSA,
I have never ever said that the entire SRM is voodoo. It is a document. (editor's deletion)


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Dec 30, 2010)

The SGGS is our GURU. The SRM is a Document that suggests a way and the WAY points to the GURU. One can even take the entire name from the GURU....eg my mother was named Gurcharan....my dad Darbara....which are complete words occuring in Gurbani..and so is NARAYANj and JYOT...

Its a sign of RESPECT that a SIKH goes to the GURDWARA to give his THANKS shukrana, ardass of Thanksgiivng and then asks the GURU for a Name to the GIFT the Sikh received from the GURU. Nothing wrong with that. People are simply splitting hairs and fanning their ego. Of course many can argue that Guru Arjun Ji certainly didnt spend so much time in preparing the SGGS simply so that people could take it home to get their new home blessed..or to get married....or to grace the opening of their new showroom/factory/mansion/school/college.kirtan darbar..as usually happens these days ??? IS the GURU's presence at a New Home Warming...showroom opening..anand karaj ceremony..factory udhghatan (opening ceremony) etc important ? necessary ?? or ??? didnt GUru Arjun Ji think this would happen ?? was the 10 Human Guurs so "invited" by Sikhs of the time ?? 1469-1708 ?? Did the Sikhs of that time ever CONSULT the GURU on such matters ?? Of course they did and thus all sikhs now have the RIGHT to consult and invite and have the GURU GRACE their premises and ceremonies by His Presence..however "petty" and "minor" these may look to some....

2. Its all ok to have the same name for father and son...if they can live with the confusion ..ha ha.  BTW one of my relations who happened to be the eldest son and whose father died when all the other brothers and sisters were mere children....got the siblings to sign away their rights to all the 100 Killas (acres) of ancestral land in Punjab to himself..( Uttar adhikaree or Power of Attorney).....and as time passed he got his GRANDSON named the same name as the GRANDFATHER (Original OWNER of the 100 Killas land in Punjab,....KISHAN SINGH)....and thus managed to GRAB the entire land as the deed shows KISHAN SINGH as sole owner. Now 50 years later the other siblings are filing a case...but "KISHAN SINGH" sold the land and all the money has disappeared into Malaysian banks...long ago.....!!! So same names can be beneficial too..ha ha ha..


----------

