# All Woman Workers For SGPC Operations: MS Gill



## Admin (Jan 7, 2010)

The SGPC would do well by emulating the example of the Halifax Sikhs, says Manohar Singh Gill, Union Minister of Youth Services and Sports.

Responding to The Tribune news report about the Halifax gurdwara in Canada electing an all-women team to run its day-to-day management, Gill said the SGPC should draw a leaf from the book of the Halifax Sikhs.

"It was Guru Nanak Dev, the founder of Sikhism, who talked and preached gender equality. Now when the Halifax Sikh sangat in general and women in particular have taken the initiative and followed the preaching of Guru Nanak Dev in letter and in spirit, the SGPC should reserve 50 per cent of the total seats in its general house for women members. This would be a real tribute to Guru Nanak Dev," said the Union Minister.

Further, suggests Gill, the SGPC should adopt a convention that men and women members would take turns as the President of the SGPC. In fact, the SGPC had already taken the initiative when it elected Jagir Kaur as the first woman President of the apex body of the Sikhs.

"As a humble Sikh, I salute the Bibis of Halifax for taking the lead and setting a precedent for others to emulate. I personally feel that equal representation of women in the SGPC and the managing committees of gurdwaras will definitely be a progressive step in the right direction. With women around, it would also ensure improved working of the Sikh religious bodies," he added.

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Punjab


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jan 7, 2010)

I'm puzzled.  Will he also push for equal treatment in Harimandir Sahib?

Or does he just want to ensure that the Singhnia will be as corrupt as the Singhs?:crazy:


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## spnadmin (Jan 7, 2010)

Mai ji

That is a great question. The former president of SGPC Bib Jagir Kaur has a FIR against her for alleged involvement in the death of her daughter. And the death could be the consequence of her engagement to a young man who was also of lower caste.

The case of a mother and daughter


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jan 7, 2010)

The death of Harpreet Kaur, whether suicide or murder,  is a gross blemish on the face of the Sikh Nation.  It is a disgraceful event that ought to be fearlessly investigated under the glaring lights of media publicity.  Better this is resolved publicly than to try to hide it from public view.  We must show ourselves unwilling to tolerate corruption amongst ourselves.

But we won't.


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## spnadmin (Jan 8, 2010)

*SC directs to complete proceedings in murder case against Bibi Jagir Kaur within 6 months*

PunjabNewsline.com - SC directs to complete proceedings in murder case against Bibi Jagir Kaur within 6 months

NEW DELHI[/i][/b]: The Supreme Court Friday in an application filed by one Kanwaljit Singh, who had married the daughter of Bibi Jagir Kaur, directed the trial Court in Patiala to conclude the trial in murder case against Bibi Jagir Kaur within a period of six months.  

  In this case, the allegation against Bibi Jagir Kaur, a former President of the Shiromani Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee,  is that she had first aborted the child of her daughter and then murdered her because she had married Kanwaljit Singh against her wishes. 

Nidhesh Gupta, Senior Advocate, appearing on behalf of Kanwaljit Singh, argued before the Court that Bibi Jagir Kaur was misusing the grant of bail and was threatening witness after witness. Reading out the statements of various witnesses, who had turned hostile even after they had deposed before the Court on various dates, Gupta emphasized that the accused was continually threatening various witnesses. Jaspal Singh, Senior Advocate, appearing for Bibi Jagir Kaur, pointed out that the trial was at the stage of conclusion and all material witnesses have been examined. Nidhesh Gupta pointed out that the trial have been going on since the year 2000 and even after 10 years, the matter is being delayed by the accused.

On hearing the counsel, the Court observed whether it would suffice to direct that the trial be expedited.  Gupta then pointed out that the High Court had already made a request to the trial Court to expedite the case, but the matter was being delayed and several years had passed. The said requested had been made by the High Court to the trial Court many years ago, but in spite of that the trial was being delayed.  He, therefore, submitted that a direction to conclude the trial within a time bound manner was required. Accepting Mr. Gupta’s request, the Bench comprising Hon’ble Mr. Justice Dalveer Bhandari and Hon’ble Justice A.K. Patnaik of the Supreme Court directed the trial Court to conclude the trial as expeditiously as possible and in any case within a period of six months.

A note: Jagir Kaur became President of the SGPC in 1999, filling the position which had been left vacant by the infamous Mr. Tohra for years. Bibi Jagir Kaur's patron was Badal.


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## dalbirk (Jan 9, 2010)

What would be the so called SANT SAMAJ's reaction to this suggestion by MS Gill . They are the real culprits as far as the Kirtan Sewa in Darbar Sahib is being denied to women . They are strongly opposed to giving this SEWA to women as the women are UNCLEAN on certain days of the month .


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## spnadmin (Jan 9, 2010)

dalbirk said:


> What would be the so called SANT SAMAJ's reaction to this suggestion by MS Gill . They are the real culprits as far as the Kirtan Sewa in Darbar Sahib is being denied to women . They are strongly opposed to giving this SEWA to women as the women are UNCLEAN on certain days of the month .





dalblirk ji

Sant Samaj is as I understand it dominated by individuals who are "strongly opposed" to SEWA by women in Darbar Sahib. But here is an historical fact that makes the politics even more ridiculous. Bibi Jagir Kaur, when she was an MP,  lobbied for SEWA by women in Harimandir Sahib. In 1999 Badal backed her appointment as President of SGPC.

Now a question. Was this a sincere act? Did Badal support seva by women and therefore back Bibi Jagir Kaur for that reason? Or did he back her because he was trying to get votes based on equality for women? Today, he has reversed himself by seeking the support of Sant Samaj. A 180 degree difference.

Badal also backed his daughter-in-law in her election. 

Just my thoughts and questions.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jan 9, 2010)

Narayanjot ji, my opinion...

The Badals are utterly corrupt.  A sane person would expect no more logic or consistency from them than one would expect from a drunk or a druggie, which they might be for all I know.

We really do need to get rid of this band of thugs;  Punjab is fast becoming Badalistan and we really can't let that happen.

Dalbirk ji, you wrote



> That would be the so called SANT SAMAJ's reaction to this suggestion by MS Gill . They are the real culprits as far as the Kirtan Sewa in Darbar Sahib is being denied to women . They are strongly opposed to giving this SEWA to women as the women are UNCLEAN on certain days of the month .



The idea that a menstruating woman is unclean is a teaching of Islam/Judaism and possibly Hinduism (I'm not sure there).  It is antithetical to Sikhi.  There is nothing dirty or unclean about the way the female body is constructed to have babies.  I know that you already know this, but I thought it ought to be clarified for those who may not.


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## dalbirk (Jan 10, 2010)

Mai Ji ,
       It is actually SANT SAMAJ who is against the Kirtan Sewa of women in Darbar sahib . It is also one of the major reasons why I have always called Sant samaj the PARASITES OF THE PANTH . You are very much correct about Badal , we need to get rid of him FAST .


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## spnadmin (Jan 10, 2010)

Gurmit Kaur ji

Women should not be branded because of one prominent woman who is a bad egg. No argument. However, the purpose of reporting about Bibi Jagir Kaur, and include the workings of Sant Samaj into this comparison, comes from political reality. Women are not any more immune than men from the lust for power or the greed for money that comes with political ambition. Women like men tow the "party line." The follow the lead of their political handlers. If the political sponsor is corrupt, then women who fall into line with a corrupt agenda will do corrupt things. We are not more virtuous because we are women. We have to make an effort as men do to reach higher than moh. Removing one woman from the political landscape because she is corrupt does not change the fact that others are waiting in line.

I guess my real wish is that *people of character *were in charge of SGPC and Akal Takht. It does not matter to me if they are women or men. They should be GurSikhs. I should feel confident that they will teach me by their example, instead of leaving me with the feeling that I am out in the cold waiting for goodness of leadership.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jan 10, 2010)

Gurmit Kaur said:


> I agree with you off course, but it is sad to hear the politic realities of 'institutions' of 'love, light and spirit''  this really should not be the case.  I thought all the work people do for Gurdwaras was on a voluntary basis,  anyway,  'lust for power' what power is there in Gurdwaras??  other than preaching and reciting the Name?  Forgive me,  but I really do not know.
> 
> I got absolutely excellent leadership last week making 'Mukee te Roti' from the ladies in the kitchen,  gosh  so much skill,  must share it,  will put it in the recipes section,  I am know many women and men will benefit.
> 
> The more I know the less I want to know,  it is a shame as you cannot teach  ethics and ethical behavior  to the highest authorities, or can you?  Guru Nanak taught cannibbials and succeeded.  The collective consciousness of devotees of Guru Nanak can...




Some of the power in gurudwaras is financial.  Look at the mess in Guru Nanak Gurudwara in Surrey!  When the new administration took over, they discovered that the reputedly financially secure gurudwara was nearly $450,000 in debt.  That is one sort of power.  I wonder how often the golack we give in good faith goes into the pockets of unscrupulous gurudwara officials?  (I am not saying this is what happened in Surrey;  I have no information about that.)

Then there is the social/communal power.  The gurudwara officers gain a lot of prestige within the sangat.  This waters the ego into wanting more and more and it can easily get entirely out of hand.  Unless one is very, very careful to follow Guru ji with the whole being, it is so easy for the ego to take over.  At least it is for me.  

As for the issue about women, I'm with Narayanjot ji;  I don't care whether any post is filled by a man or a woman.  I just want everyone to have an equal opportunity and that the job or Sewa goes to the people most qualified both in the miri and in the piri sense.

In having a civil discussion of this thorny issue, we are going in the right direction.  Let's pat ourselves on the back a bit  :aHi5: and keep on keeping on.

And I repeat:  the Badal Regime is utterly corrupt and must go!  The sooner the better!

:ice:


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## spnadmin (Jan 10, 2010)

Gurmit Kaur ji

I know exactly what you mean when you say, "The more I know the less I want to know." So many times I have that feeling.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jan 10, 2010)

Gurmit Kaur said:



> My recommendation is to go at Amrit vela, seriously the sangat and prayers are so special a delight and much of the distraction is not there.



Lovely!  I love it!  The Gurudwara Sahib during those hours is nothing short of heaven on earth.  

I wish that I could live entirely for the spiritual and simply ignore all this messy Maya stuff.  How many times have I longed to go on some sort of a Sikh camp/retreat that would last a long, long time, preferably a lifetime.

That is simply not possible for me as a Sikh.  Both swords, miri and piri, need to be kept in balance.  I have often said that this is the most difficult aspect of being a Sikh for me.

The spiritual heaven of Amritvela gives way to the duties of the day, accompanied by a steady stream of naam-jap, and the reality of the temporal demands my time and attention.  The life of a householder is busy and demanding;  the spiritual life is also, in its way, busy and demanding.  Finding the correct balance is difficult, and I continue on with the attempt.  I hope for some success before both swords come crashing down on my head!

Gurmit Kaur ji, please ignore all this SGPC and Badal stuff.  It is garbage and distracting.  Some of us, such as myself, feel the need to meddle.  If you are at a different place on your path, congratulations!  I hope to be able to join you there eventually.

Love and chardi kala to all!

:ice:


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## spnadmin (Jan 10, 2010)

But it cannot be ignored. The identity of Sikhs and the defining of Sikhism is what is at stake today.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jan 10, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> But it cannot be ignored. The identity of Sikhs and the defining of Sikhism is what is at stake today.



Narayanjot ji, I totally agree with your second sentence.  I partially disagree with your first.

We are all where we are on this spiritual journey we call Life.  Most of us are in the stage where this sort of interaction with the temporal is a duty.  I think there are three types who are not.  

First, there are those very new to Sikhi.  I think it makes much more sense to learn the basics of the faith before getting too involved with this messy stuff (which is actually, in many ways antiSikh).  This might also include those who have grown up in Sikh families, but are just now getting involved with the Sikh religious practices and beliefs.  This should be looked on as a temporary state, imo.

The second group is made up of those who have progressed beyond the need for such involvement.  I know little of this group, since they are far ahead of me, but I do have a sense that they exist.

The third group are those nearing death.  Let our lovely old greybeards and mais have peace in their last days, undisturbed by this stuff.


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## spnadmin (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks Mai ji but......

The legacy left to the next generation will be the color of saffron if we do not make the effort.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jan 10, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Thanks Mai ji but......
> 
> The legacy left to the next generation will be the color of saffron if we do not make the effort.



Do you remember the last stanza of my poem about female foeticide  (No reason you should, so I'll repeat it here):

 "Guru's thoughts forgotten now,
 Go and worship sacred cow."

 I am well aware of the problem.  Those in the first group are there for only a short time, until they get their water legs, so to speak.

 The second group are very few.

 The third group have mostly served long and faithfully.

 The vast majority of Sikhs are not in those groups.  That leaves millions and millions of Sikhs on the hook


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