# Can God Make A Rock So Big He Can't Move It?



## etinder (Aug 10, 2004)

*"CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"*

what do u say?


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## Neutral Singh (Aug 10, 2004)

Well, this earth is a moving object... a rock is just a little part of it...


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## etinder (Aug 10, 2004)

u didnt get it right dear friend i m asking can he make that big a rock that he can't move


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## S|kH (Aug 22, 2004)

God has created one already..

The human mind.


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## Arvind (Aug 22, 2004)

I agree with Sikh ji partially. The human mind may not be moved by him alone, but He can move (still better bless) his (human) mind to cause the rock move.

Thanks.


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## Mr §ingh (Aug 23, 2004)

At first, when I read that I thought 'good point'
but actually no - cause With Guru's Kirpa even Kauda Rakas and SAjjan Thug became premis afterwards!

bhull chukk maaf
GurFAteh


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## desperadovj (Aug 23, 2004)

The writer of this question is far more intelligant than he sounds here....
this is a pretty odd thing for me to talk about.. coz to start with i m an athiest....
but i will try...
GOD has aleady created a rock he cannot move....and that is the evil that exists... and god my friend is unable to move it..coz its almost KALYUG now... still growing into a much worse YUG.that is symobllically speaking....
literally speaking....no it is not possible... coz...GOD.. is the allmight.. aal powerful whom nothing is impossible....so NO he cannot create a rock he cannot move.


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## Arvind (Aug 23, 2004)

Only He has the ability to create the biggest rocks and then also move those. Nothing is beyond his powers. Dont take 'nothing' as an entity, which is not within His powers, I mean - Everything is within His powers


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Nov 5, 2004)

*Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"*

That would be the same as asking:


What will happen when the UNSTOPPABLE cannon ball ( NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING can STOP this cannon ball !!) meets the UNBREAKABLE WALL ( NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING can breakdown this wall )

An atheist once posed me this question:
What action will make BOTH God and SATAN angry ?  You see that according to LOGIC, GOD only gets "angry" at EVIL actions.....and SATAN only gets 'angry" at GOOD actions.....so what can possibly get BOTH God and Satan angry.
The answer was:
Both God and Satan will be angry at the action of the person who rapes the Satan's daughter. God will be angry because rape is an evil act....and Satan will also be angry because his own daughter is raped....so BOTH will be angry at this one action . COOL.


Just my random thoughts on seeing this question...

Jarnail singh


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## GushK (Nov 5, 2004)

*Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"*



			
				Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
			
		

> Both God and Satan will be angry at the action of the person who rapes the Satan's daughter. God will be angry because rape is an evil act....and Satan will also be angry because his own daughter is raped....so BOTH will be angry at this one action .


Not necessarily.
Satan is Evil personnified, Since rape is evil then he should be happy.
If he was angry, that would mean that he's going against himself.
Satan would be caught in a catch 22 between a choice of the evils of lust (the sinner) and ego (his own).



On the actual topic at hand, i'd have to say no.
To say that God can't move something he made is to admit that God is not infallible, thus imperfect, and we all know that isn't the case...


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## Tejwant Singh (Nov 5, 2004)

*Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"*

Although we Sikhs have been bestowed with the right definition and notion of ONE TRUE GOD as CREATIVE ENERGY or as Amarpal ji likes to call it as COSMIC INTELLIGENCE, we still gravitate towards the WRONG notion of HE/SHE/IT by visualising IK ONG KAAR as a physical entity. Hence, by defining it in this way (which is NON GURMAT),we are creating useless dogmas which in result create worthless rituals

IK ONG KAAR, The CREATIVE ENERGY is very dynamic, always changing. All that has been formed into rocks was just some gas in the begining. Rocks are made by fusion of The CREATIVE ENERGY and also destroyed by IT.

So for a Sikh this question is irrelevant as ONE TRUE GOD is NOT physical being that can move things with his hands or kick them using his feet but IS FORMLESS, GENDERLESS, TIMELESS..........

That's why for a Sikh, IK ONG KAAR is not a belief but ONE TRUE GOD *IS*
which makes SIKHI a way of life sans dogma.

Tejwant


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## GushK (Nov 5, 2004)

*Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"*

Ah hah.

So in terms a dumb kid like me understands
The Universe is a physical manifestation of this Creative Energy, so the original question thus becomes irrelevent.


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## ravisingh (Jan 30, 2005)

*Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"*

Although I know that this thread is long dead I will make an assertion that I think the original poster is well aware of.

The concept of a "rock that is so heavy that god can't lift it" is a LOGICAL impossibility.  It ammounts to the equivalent of saying can god create a square circle.  The concept of a "square circle" is logically impossible (ie. impossible given what the terms mean) the same goes for the purported rock.


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## 21khalsa13 (Feb 22, 2005)

*Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"*

squared circle

have you seen leanordo da vinci's man
that is scientifically and geometrically correct

but answer to question is god can do whatever he pleases

come on get real

look at all the stars they are all like our sun
billions and billions of light years away

he has created all this with effortless ease
and we seriously debating this

GET REAL PEOPLE


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## ravisingh (Feb 22, 2005)

*Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"*



> squared circle
> 
> have you seen leanordo da vinci's man
> that is scientifically and geometrically correct


 But this is not a "square circle" it is an illustration containing both a square and a circle.  A square has four sides and circle is a curved plane equidistant from the centre.  Something can't be both of these things at the same time.  In the same way that "a rock that god can't lift" is impossible given the meanings of the terms.


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## 21khalsa13 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"*

bha ji ravi

utmost respect my bro


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## ravisingh (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"*

21Khalsa 13,

 Right back at you!

 Ravi Singh


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## Questioner (May 15, 2009)

*Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"*

The questioner is asking can God create something more powerful than Himself...All the strength and power contained within that which He creates (which in this case is a large rock) actually belongs to Him. Size is a perception of the human mind within the world of dimensions, but God creates size and dimensions so how can size overpower Him?! Incomparably Great is The Almighty. This question is an insult to the intelligence of anyone who knows that all power belongs to He. If u want a testimony to His endless power look at how this huge earth effortlessly spins around the sun. THERE IS NOTHING HE CAN'T DO. He is the creator of all things.  All power belongs to God. If u disagree then avoid death.


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## Astroboy (May 15, 2009)

*Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"*

3rd Rock from the sun. 

YouTube - 3rd RFTS S01 E01- Brains and Eggs (3/3)


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## Sa'ad (May 16, 2009)

*Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"*

Such questions deal in semantics and linguistics and not spiritual reality.  It is the old and tired question of what happens when an immovable object meets an irresistible force.  I am enjoying reading the Guru Granth Sahib Ji tonight and am amazed at how truth is the same for the Sikh and the Chassidic ***.  I often wondered how long I will have to leave the auto parts in my yard before they become a car on their own.  All one has to do is look at creation to see there is a Creator.  Quantum Physics, Sacred Geometry, and Kabbalah all point to Intelligent Design which logically points to a Designer.


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## BhagatSingh (May 16, 2009)

*Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"*



Questioner said:


> The questioner is asking can God create something more powerful than Himself...All the strength and power contained within that which He creates (which in this case is a large rock) actually belongs to Him. Size is a perception of the human mind within the world of dimensions, but God creates size and dimensions so how can size overpower Him?! Incomparably Great is The Almighty. This question is an insult to the intelligence of anyone who knows that all power belongs to He. If u want a testimony to His endless power look at how this huge earth effortlessly spins around the sun. THERE IS NOTHING HE CAN'T DO. He is the creator of all things. All power belongs to God. If u disagree then avoid death.


haha, you have ignored the question.  but can he create a Earth so massive that he cannot spin it? 
"If you disagree then avoid death." - I fail to see any valid point in this statement.


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## spnadmin (May 16, 2009)

*Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"*

Bhagatj i

This is a classic riddle from Philosophy. Another example would be: _If a tree falls in the Black Forest and no one is there to see/hear it, can one truly say that the tree fell._ The point of this question is to get a discussion started about the nature of reality. 

The point of the question about God and the rock is to get a discussion started about the nature of God.  If a person says, YES, God can create something so large that He can't move it, then one is saying God can create something that would leave Him no longer most powerful.  If one says, NO, God cannot create something more powerful than Himself, then one is saying that God is not All-powerful. It is probably obvious to most forum members who have read this thread that the question is an intellectual game of sorts;  and it is not the question that is so interesting, but the discussion that would follow. 

So IMHO, the discussion is certainly worthwhile, but it is a waste of energy to get emotional about the question.


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## Sa'ad (May 16, 2009)

*Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"*

Alright, I have a question.  Can the finite mind with it limited perceptions and languages comprehend the infinite nature of Ik Ong Kar? And, what is meant by socY soic n hoveI jy socI lK vwr      ].
jy ko AwKY boluivgwVu ] 
qw ilKIAY isir gwvwrw gwvwru ]26]


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## spnadmin (May 17, 2009)

*Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"*

Sa' ad ji

Good point

 jy ko AwKY boluivgwVu ] 
qw ilKIAY isir gwvwrw gwvwru ]26]     


ਕੇਤੇ ਆਖਹਿ ਆਖਣਿ ਪਾਹਿ ॥ 
kaethae aakhehi aakhan paahi ||
Many speak and try to describe Him.
 

ਕੇਤੇ ਕਹਿ ਕਹਿ ਉਠਿ ਉਠਿ ਜਾਹਿ ॥ 
kaethae kehi kehi outh outh jaahi ||
Many have spoken of Him over and over again, and have then arisen and departed.
 

ਏਤੇ ਕੀਤੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਕਰੇਹਿ ॥ 
eaethae keethae hor karaehi ||
If He were to create as many again as there already are,
 

ਤਾ ਆਖਿ ਨ ਸਕਹਿ ਕੇਈ ਕੇਇ ॥ 
thaa aakh n sakehi kaeee kaee ||
even then, they could not describe Him.
 

ਜੇਵਡੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤੇਵਡੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ 
jaevadd bhaavai thaevadd hoe ||
He is as Great as He wishes to be.
 

ਨਾਨਕ ਜਾਣੈ ਸਾਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥ 
naanak jaanai saachaa soe ||
O Nanak, the True Lord knows.
 

* ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਬੋਲੁਵਿਗਾੜੁ ॥ 
jae ko aakhai boluvigaarr ||
If anyone presumes to describe God,


ਤਾ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਸਿਰਿ ਗਾਵਾਰਾ ਗਾਵਾਰੁ ॥੨੬॥ 
thaa likheeai sir gaavaaraa gaavaar ||26||
he shall be known as the greatest fool of fools! ||26||

*Not the expert, I am not sure however of your first line -- socY soic n hoveI jy socI lK vwr      ]. How does it fit  in the shabad with greatest fool of fools?  Appreciate your insigh*t, *as the last two of your quote are in Japji, but the first quoted by you is not part of that pauree.


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## Sa'ad (May 17, 2009)

Actually, it does not fit, I was thinking that we can ponder all we want, but is it profitable in coming to know Wahe Guru or are we simply pushing a rock up Sisyphus's Mountain?


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## kiram (May 17, 2009)

"is it profitable in coming to know Wahe Guru " - Sa'ad ji

Sharing a saakhi about Bhagat Namdev Ji here :

Once there was a banker whose riches were so great that he had himself weighed with gold which he distributed among his poor fellow citizens. He sent for Bhagat Namdev Ji at somebody's suggestion. 

Bhagat Namdev Ji twice sent him word that he wanted nothing, but on the third invitation decided on going to meet him. The banker said that he had distributed a large amount of money through the city, and asked Bhagat Namdev Dev Ji also to take some, so that he (the banker) might reap some advantage from his sharing of his wealth. 
Bhagat Namdev Ji replied, 'Why should I refuse anything that would be for your benefit?' 
At the same time he reflected that when the banker abandoned the pride of wealth, it would be well for him. He therefore wrote the letter R, being half of God's name - RAM so, on a sprig of sweet basil, and told the banker to weigh gold against it. 
  In Sanskrit Ram can be written with only two letters as the A is not written out, but is spoken as part of the R. Speaking and spelling the word in English requires adding the A. 

The banker asked Bhagat Namdev Ji if he were making fun of him, as his mind told him the small sprig would only take a few grains of gold to balance the scale. Before Bhagat Namdev Ji could answer he added saying, "I have high regard for your Holiness and appreciate your kindness in coming to visit me, please ask for what ever you desire." 
Bhagat Namdev Ji replied that laughter and pleasantry were out of place stating that his request was serious he only required gold equal to the weight of the sprig of basil. Upon this the banker sent for a set of small scales, and began to weigh the basil with a little gold. Surprised he was when the gold was not sufficient to counter the weight of the sprig. 

The banker then sent for larger scales, and finding the sprig weighed more than five or seven sers (a ser = 2 troy lbs.), he next added six then seven mans (49 sers = 1 mans or maund = 100 troy lbs.) of gold, but still the scale with the basil remained on the ground, while the scale with the gold remained high in the air. The banker then borrowed more gold from his tribesmen, but all would not suffice to lift the basil. 
At this the banker and his dependants were very distressed. Bhagat Namdev Ji then saw that the banker had parted with his pride of wealth, but that he was still proud of the good acts he had done during his life, and it was necessary to dispel that pride also. 
Bhagat Namdev Ji told him to add the offering of the good acts of his life, and perhaps the scale with the sprig of basil would rise. The banker did so, but still the scale refused to move. The banker's good acts possessed no weight. 

Upon this he told Bhagat Namdev Ji to take away all the gold. Bhagat Namdev Ji inquired what use it would be to him for he wanted only the wealth of God's service, to whom all the deities and the powers of both worlds were subservient. 
The banker grew ashamed and inspired with faith became a saint of God.
​


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## spnadmin (May 17, 2009)

Sa'ad said:


> Actually, it does not fit, I was thinking that we can ponder all we want, but is it profitable in coming to know Wahe Guru or are we simply pushing a rock up Sisyphus's Mountain?



Sa'ad ji

Many thanks for your presence here. In response, yes for me it is a pointless task to push the rock up the mountain, because we do it with our intellects which are limited. As much as I enjoy discussions of God and His Identity, in the end His Mercy and our submission are what it takes.


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## Sa'ad (May 17, 2009)

Thank you for your patience with me.  As I have said, my knowledge of Sikhism is limited and although I love discussing God and His Attributes, what I really desire is closeness to "HIM."  I am learning a few words of Punjabi from the Guru Granth Sahib ji; unfortunately, I will never be fluent in it.  Still, at my age, any thing new learned helps to keep my mind sharper than if I were satisfied with where I am.  18 years ago when I first start to be able to put Spanish words together into sentences, I wanted to compliment some Mexicans whom I had just met.  I thought I was saying you have a large kitchen; however, when all the smiles left their faces I realized that I had not said what I intended.  My friend informed me that I had told them that they had a big pig stye.  I quickly told them that my Spanish was very bad and my friend explained to them that I had meant to compliment them on the beautiful spacious kitchen.  The smiles returned.  Usually, when I would practice my Spanish with Mexicans they would compliment me.  When I practiced with Puerto Ricans, I was asked if I were speaking Canadian.  Eventually, after emerging myself in the Mexican Culture and language, I was able to carry on conversations on a basic level and the people were very receptive to an American trying to learn their language.  I have found that I am not very effective in communicating in English either.  I often seem to convey the opposite meaning which I desire.  When speaking with Christians, I tend to use Scripture to convey my thoughts which seems to be the most effective.  Hopefully, I will become familiar with the Guru Granth Sahib Ji to do the same.  The one thing which I have learned from Scriptures of most religions is that the tongue is the member of the body that needs the most restraint and training.  So, again, if it seems as if I am being insulting or self indulgent, please remember that I may be trying to express my love of Ik On Kar and my view that the only purpose of life is to learn of him and produce offspring who in turn can learn of him.  I am blessed with a wife who is a beautiful person, but seldom speaks.  She is loved by all she meets and is the reason that I am tolerated in some social interchanges.  I must have acquired some good Karma to have been so blessed with such a precious wife. It is so difficult, as I am sure you know better than I, to interact with people of different cultures. What is considered acceptable in one culture is weak or insulting in another.  Again, I hope to learn of the Gurus and the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and thanks to all for your kindness.


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## spnadmin (May 17, 2009)

Sa'ad ji

Sounds as if you have a big brain and an even bigger heart. How do you know that He is not already very close to you? As I read your words, it seems He is.


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