# Rumalaa For Guru



## Archived_member2 (Sep 13, 2007)

Who told them that their Guru needs clothing?


Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

Sikhs offer their Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Rumaalaas. Who told them that their Guru needs clothing?
Please explain.

Balbir Singh


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## Sherab (Sep 13, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*



Balbir Singh said:


> Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
> Dear all!
> 
> Sikhs offer their Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Rumaalaas. Who told them that their Guru needs clothing?
> ...


Balbir-ji,

Kee haal hai?

I hope u are fine... 

To answer your question, offering rumaalaas - I assume it is a ceremony (not an empty ritual) to clothe oneself with remeberance of God just like we may use Simran bracelet...


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## drkhalsa (Sep 13, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

I think Rumalas provode protection against physical climatic hazards to th such large size Granth .

How told sikh to offer rumalas? : I think there common sense to protect the Garnth Sahib


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## TGill (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

In addition to what khalsa ji said - 

As I was asking people in the other thread that, are Hindu rituals that bad cos rituals are there in Sikhism as well, like offering Rumala Sahib.

I don't know who started this ritual or when was it started but I personally feel that it is not just an empty ritual. A mere act of offering rumala can really overwhelm a person with love for the Guru. 

We bow before the granth and not before the idols because we have faith  that it is our Guru present in physical form cos otherwise physical bowing is not required. Whenever I go to the gurudwara and I feel that it is the true guru present right in front of me, the body by itself bows in love.

So if we bow to the Granth cos we love the guru, we offer rumallas for the same reason. You can just stop offering rumallas if you want and that won't change anything. But if one is offering rumallas simply out of love for the Guru than there is nothing wrong in it.

I don't think rituals are bad, even hindu rituals are great but it depends on us as what is happening within us when we do a ritual and why are we performing them. As I said earlier that if Dhana could find his beloved with his faith in a stone then are rituals really that bad... ? 

It is only blindly following a ritual which is bad. Rituals can't do anything on the physical plane, you can't achieve anything in the physical world by offering rumalas but if it fills yourself with love for Guru then I bow to this ritual as well.


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## drkhalsa (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*



> I don't think rituals are bad, even hindu rituals are great but it depends on us as what is happening within us when we do a ritual and why are we performing them. As I said earlier that if Dhana could find his beloved with his faith in a stone then are rituals really that bad... ?
> 
> It is only blindly following a ritual which is bad. Rituals can't do anything on the physical plane, you can't achieve anything in the physical world by offering rumalas but if it fills yourself with love for Guru then I bow to this ritual as well.



Yes Brother My understanding also tells me the same that Rituals are not BAD per se but  cane become blind over period of time and meaninigless but not for all


Jatinder Singh


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Jatinder Jee!

Quote "I think Rumalas provode protection against physical climatic hazards to th such large size Granth .
How told sikh to offer rumalas? : I think there common sense to protect the Garnth Sahib"

Parents also feel that the child needs clothing. They should protect him. This is the common sense.
In my view Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is not our child nor the Guru is sensitive toward climatic hazards.

**************

Quote from TGill Jee "As I was asking people in the other thread that, are Hindu rituals that bad cos rituals are there in Sikhism as well, like offering Rumala Sahib."
I think it should be an offer from Sikhs, not a ritual.

Quote "I don't know who started this ritual or when was it started but I personally feel that it is not just an empty ritual. A mere act of offering rumala can really overwhelm a person with love for the Guru."
May I ask if offering Rumaalaa is a technique of falling in love with the Guru?

Quote "You can just stop offering rumallas if you want and that won't change anything."
In my view, one can continue offering Rumaalaas to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee if he wants and that will not change anything. I do not know when and where the Gurus have instructed us to do so.

Quote "But if one is offering rumallas simply out of love for the Guru than there is nothing wrong in it."
I have heard one offers everything in love. Why some offer only a Rumaalaa?

Quote "I don't think rituals are bad, even hindu rituals are great but it depends on us as what is happening within us when we do a ritual and why are we performing them."
Please provide a reference that The Gurus also agree with this view.

Quote "It is only blindly following a ritual which is bad."
Have I understood it correctly? Some follow rituals with open eyes.

Quote "Rituals can't do anything on the physical plane, you can't achieve anything in the physical world by offering rumalas but if it fills yourself with love for Guru then I bow to this ritual as well."
Is this a universal technique?

**************

Dear all, thanks for your posts. Ego of some may feel fine while offering a Rumaalaa to the Guru. 
Does the Guru also need a Rumaalaa? Did He ask for it once?


Balbir Singh


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## Astroboy (Sep 15, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Henri Frederic Amiel:We are never more discontented with others than when we are discontented with ourselves.
​
Albert Einstein:Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.​



Blaise Pascal:We know the truth, not only by the reason, but also by the heart.​​


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## TGill (Sep 15, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Had Guru Nanak been in front of me and I ask him "If you can please accept this offering of love from me"... Would it be any different from now if I ask Guru Granth Sahib to please accept my offering cos I love him so dearly and feel liking something as a token...

Even if Guru Nanak kicks me and throws my rumala out I will come again and cry in front of the Guru to please accept it as my token of love.... 

I don't know how to ask the Guru whether he want rumala or not... But I can cry in his love till he accepts me and my token... I know he will not say no...


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 15, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Begum Jee!

One does not need to read philosophers to enliven truth. True Simran is above all.

Some have an ego. Many philosophers have a gathering of egos, multiple personality. They use the word 'we' for 'I' when they want to express their ego.
I respect Albert Einstein. He knew that no one could set him as a judge of truth and knowledge, so the above statement from him.

Please write something about the topic.

**************

Dear TGill Jee, please listen. The True Guru is singing about people who offer clothing to wear.

ਅਨਿਕ ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਪਹਿਰਾਇਆ ॥ 
अनिक बसत्र सुंदर पहिराइआ ॥
"anik bastar sundar pehraa-i-aa."
Many robes are decoratively worn.

ਜਿਉ ਡਰਨਾ ਖੇਤ ਮਾਹਿ ਡਰਾਇਆ ॥੨॥ 
जिउ डरना खेत माहि डराइआ ॥२॥
"ji-o darnaa khayt maahi daraa-i-aa. ||2|| SGGS 190-17 
Like scaring in the field are frightened.

Quote "Even if Guru Nanak kicks me and throws my rumala out I will come again and cry in front of the Guru to please accept it as my token of love...."
Gurdev accepts everything from everyone that is not a bribe but from the pure heart.

Quote "I don't know how to ask the Guru whether he want rumala or not... But I can cry in his love till he accepts me and my token... I know he will not say no..."
Never challenge the Guru. He resolves faster when one is humble.

**************

Knowing why a person likes to offer clothing to the Guru at all would be interesting.


Balbir Singh


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## drkhalsa (Sep 16, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*



> ਜਿਉ ਡਰਨਾ ਖੇਤ ਮਾਹਿ ਡਰਾਇਆ ॥੨॥
> जिउ डरना खेत माहि डराइआ ॥२॥
> "ji-o darnaa khayt maahi daraa-i-aa. ||2|| SGGS 190-17
> Like scaring in the field are frightened.




Balbir Singh Ji 


Can you elaborate this vaak lit bit more as I could not understand 

THanks!

Jatinder Singh


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## TGill (Sep 16, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

The shabad from the true guru is really sweet...

But Does that mean Guru is asking us to stop wearing beautiful clothes? I don't think so. I think it just mean that nothing is of any use without his naam....

*You are asking "Why" rumallas and I ask you "Why not" ?*


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 16, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and TGill Jee!

Quote "The shabad from the true guru is really sweet...But Does that mean Guru is asking us to stop wearing beautiful clothes?"
The Sabad is not about your wearing (pahir-ay) beautiful cloth. The wonderful Sabad is about putting on (pahiraav-ay) someone else beautiful clothes.

The mind, busy with True Naam, is never busy with decorating anything with clothes.
Also, no one can decorate the Sabad Guru with perishable material.

Quote "I think it just mean that nothing is of any use without his naam...."
That is right. The True Guru is happy with HIS Naam chanted by the true Sikh first. I am not sure if Guru is happy with people offering HIM, CLOTHING, without knowing what is true Naam.

**************

Quote from Jatinder Jee "Can you elaborate this vaak lit bit more as I could not understand."

In reality a farmer fears birds but he produces his dummy figure, decorates it with decorative cloths and places it in the field to frighten the birds.
So is the human being fearing of bad times and losses create the dummy protection putting decorative clothes on it.

**************

I feel it is worth offering God and the Guru masks, one hides behind. The tradition is long to become truthful while visiting the true Guru, also by giving up the clothing and becoming au naturel while receiving Naam. 


Balbir Singh


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## Astroboy (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Blaise Pascal:*We know the truth, not only by the reason, but also by the heart.* ​ 


I was hoping that TGill Saheb, could throw some light on this statement by Blaise Pascal.​ 

TGill, you truly have a remarkable talent of expressing emotions in words. I like reading your 'feelings for the Guru' comments. Here's an audio for you.​
YouTube - SATYAM SHIVAM SUNDARAM​ 

Some will say it is not relevant to the topic. Brahmins gave Dhanna Bhagat a rock to pray to, and he had the devotion which has resulted us to pay our respect to him for centuries to come. TGill saheb, you have inspired me by your previous references to Bhagat Dhanna in your various posts. Thank you.​​


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## TGill (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

begum ji,
I don't know what pascal was thinking when he said this. So I don't think I would be right person to expain it, it would be pascal himself 
Begum ji please refer me as TGill only, TGill saheb seemed way too respectful for me !!

Padha Suna Seekha Sabhi 
Miti Naa Sanshay Shool 
Kahe Kabir Kaso Kahu 
Ye Sab Dukh Ka Mool 



Quote Balbir ji: The mind, busy with True Naam, is never busy with decorating anything with clothes.
Also, no one can decorate the Sabad Guru with perishable material.

- I don't know, but can *mind *be ever busy in True Naam ?
- No one can decorate shabd Guru but Guru nanak has given us, who don't know shabad yet, a physical guru in the form of Granth. Is that false ? If someone loves the Guru and offers in love and guru accepts the 
offering, why is that bad ?


Quote Balbir ji: The True Guru is happy with HIS Naam chanted by the true Sikh first. I am not sure if Guru is happy with people offering HIM, CLOTHING, without knowing what is true Naam.
- Can a person achieve true naam without Guru's own will, is it possible ? If he can't then how can he chant that true naam without Guru's grace... but till then he can love the Guru atleast !!


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and TGill Jee!

Quote "I don't know, but can mind be ever busy in True Naam ?"
Yes. It becomes true when one receives Naam as Gur Prasaad.

Quote "No one can decorate shabd Guru but Guru nanak has given us, who don't know shabad yet, a physical guru in the form of Granth. Is that false ?"
Please provide a reference from Guru Naanak Dev Jee. I will be grateful.

Quote "If someone loves the Guru and offers in love and guru accepts the offering, why is that bad ?"
Perhaps the cloth merchant and the Bhaaee Jee at Gurudwara are more happy with such deals. True love does not need any token or proof for the offerings.

Quote "Can a person achieve true naam without Guru's own will, is it possible ?"
The Grace of God provides True Naam through the Guroo. The true Gurus do not have own Will.

Quote "If he can't then how can he chant that true naam without Guru's grace... but till then he can love the Guru atleast !!"
Love is the result of true Naam.  Love is not the pre condition.

In the sixth class the Sanskrit teacher told the students a story, 'Gataanu Gatiko Lokah'. A pilgrim on the bank of Ganges buried his clothes in sand before going for a dip. To recollect his clothes after the holy bath easily he made a Symbol of Shiva and did his Poojaa with flowers.
People saw the Symbol and thought it was the sacred place to do Shiva's worship. 
They surprised the pilgrim when he saw  thousands of Symbols after he returned to collect his clothes. He shook his head and whispered 'Gataanu Gatiko Lokah'- The world moves following others.

One reaches God following no one but accompanying the Sabad Guru.


Balbir Singh


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## TGill (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

You got a point here but we all know this that for some people rumallas and all such thing have become a business. What are you trying to tell balbir ji, please elaborate? Shall we stop offering rumallas to Guru even if we feel like offering it with love ?


Quote :
Quote "I don't know, but can mind be ever busy in True Naam ?"
Yes. It becomes true when one receives Naam as Gur Prasaad.

- I asked "can mind be busy in true naam?", cos I was under impression that true naam is beyond mind and one achieves it as Guru's prasad. So I thought mind can't be busy in true naam... Please correct me, balbir ji!!


Quote:
Quote "No one can decorate shabd Guru but Guru nanak has given us, who don't know shabad yet, a physical guru in the form of Granth. Is that false ?"
Please provide a reference from Guru Naanak Dev Jee. I will be grateful.

- I thought Guru Gobind Singh ji was tenth Nanak and that's why I used Nanak for Guru Gobind. Do I still need to provide reference ?


Quote:
Quote "If someone loves the Guru and offers in love and guru accepts the offering, why is that bad ?"
Perhaps the cloth merchant and the Bhaaee Jee at Gurudwara are more happy with such deals. True love does not need any token or proof for the offerings.

-  We all know Bhaee ji and cloth merchant are more happy in such deals but then if I feel like offering it to the true Guru with love, what shall I do ? 
A saint is sitting and I offer something with love. Then some  roudy comes and snatches that offering from the saint and runs away. Does that mean I should not offer to the saint if I feel like doing it... !! 
If it keep on happening then I will ask saints permission to give a lesson to the roudy. But offering, if I love and offer it, is there something wrong ?  I don't know, please clarify ?

Quote:
Quote "Can a person achieve true naam without Guru's own will, is it possible ?"
The Grace of God provides True Naam through the Guroo. The true Gurus do not have own Will.

-  Oh sorry, I don't believe in God, for me Guru is everything, even God !! Can I please call it as " By Gurus grace", Balbir ji... please.


Quote:
Quote "If he can't then how can he chant that true naam without Guru's grace... but till then he can love the Guru atleast !!"
Love is the result of true Naam. Love is not the pre condition.

- Balbir ji, please provide a reference from Gurudev. I will be grateful.


Quote:
One reaches God following no one but accompanying the Sabad Guru.
- Who doesn't know this Balbir ji, but how to accompany the Sabad Guru, thats the question ?


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and TGill Jee!

Quote "Shall we stop offering rumallas to Guru even if we feel like offering it with love ?"
The true Gurus never asked someone to offer a Rumaalaa. Still, many have started following. Whom?

Quote "I was under impression that true naam is beyond mind and one achieves it as Guru's prasad. So I thought mind can't be busy in true naam... Please correct me, balbir ji!!"
The Guroo does not go beyond a person's mind and delivers true Naam there. One may come to know it or go on asking about it.

Quote "I thought Guru Gobind Singh ji was tenth Nanak and that's why I used Nanak for Guru Gobind. Do I still need to provide reference ?"
I feel Guru Naanak Dev Jee is also the first Guru Gobind.
Also, Guru Gobind Singh Jee never said or wrote that the Guru of Sikhs is a Granth. The popular sentence 'Guru Maanyo Granth' is also not from Gurdev.

Quote "We all know Bhaee ji and cloth merchant are more happy in such deals but then if I feel like offering it to the true Guru with love, what shall I do ?"
Just accept it. It is a tradition that has nothing to do with spiritual development as such. Rituals in a religion are the beginning. Fanaticism is the result.
Also, people in love feel to get the right to put off the clothes (masks).

Quote "But offering, if I love and offer it, is there something wrong ? I don't know, please clarify ?"
Offering any material thing is a self satisfying game. The true Guru is happy when one is blessed with  Simran.

Quote "Oh sorry, I don't believe in God, for me Guru is everything, even God !!"
Surprise. Some do not believe in God. Still, for them God is everything.

Quote "Can I please call it as " By Gurus grace", Balbir ji... please."
The true Gurus are constantly praising God and His Grace known as Gur (technique). They never said something was existing like the Guroo's Grace. 
Be careful. One learns such things from the business preachers.

Quote "Love is the result of true Naam. Love is not the pre condition.
- Balbir ji, please provide a reference from Gurudev. I will be grateful."

ਸੇ ਲਾਲ ਭਏ ਗੂੜੈ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤੇ ਜਿਨ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗਾਇਆ ॥੩॥ 
से लाल भए गूड़ै रंगि राते जिन गुर मिलि हरि हरि गाइआ ॥३॥
"say laal bha-ay goorhai rang raatay jin gur mil har har gaa-i-aa." SGGS 1003-13
They become red dyed in fast color who with Gur sing Hari Hari.

Quote "One reaches God following no one but accompanying the Sabad Guru.
- Who doesn't know this Balbir ji, but how to accompany the Sabad Guru, thats the question ?"
It is the high goodly time. Come to know true Simran.


Balbir Singh


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## TGill (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Quote:
Quote "Shall we stop offering rumallas to Guru even if we feel like offering it with love ?"
The true Gurus never asked someone to offer a Rumaalaa. Still, many have started following. Whom?

- Why would Guru ask for anything for that matter, he is the giver of everything. It can be loving devotion of a child that he offers something to Guru. Rumallas can be one, or someone can come up with something innovative.


Quote: 
Quote "I was under impression that true naam is beyond mind and one achieves it as Guru's prasad. So I thought mind can't be busy in true naam... Please correct me, balbir ji!!"
The Guroo does not go beyond a person's mind and delivers true Naam there. One may come to know it or go on asking about it.

- Is it ? please provide reference from Gurudev that Guru delivers naam in mind. I will be grateful.

Quote:
Quote "I thought Guru Gobind Singh ji was tenth Nanak and that's why I used Nanak for Guru Gobind. Do I still need to provide reference ?"
I feel Guru Naanak Dev Jee is also the first Guru Gobind.
Also, Guru Gobind Singh Jee never said or wrote that the Guru of Sikhs is a Granth. The popular sentence 'Guru Maanyo Granth' is also not from Gurdev.

- Are you trying to say that Guru Gobind Singh never made Granth the Guru. Please clarify !


Quote:
Quote "We all know Bhaee ji and cloth merchant are more happy in such deals but then if I feel like offering it to the true Guru with love, what shall I do ?"
Just accept it. It is a tradition that has nothing to do with spiritual development as such. Rituals in a religion are the beginning. Fanaticism is the result.
Also, people in love feel to get the right to put off the clothes (masks).

- We all know fanaticism is the result cos of blind people, why do you think sikh dharam was created. All religions breed fanaticism. There are few who are not fanatic. Please define spiritual development and how is love different from it.


Quote:
Quote "Can I please call it as " By Gurus grace", Balbir ji... please."
The true Gurus are constantly praising God and His Grace known as Gur (technique). They never said something was existing like the Guroo's Grace. 
Be careful. One learns such things from the business preachers.

- What is 'Gur Prasad' Balbir ji, can you please elaborate on this !


Quote:
Quote "Love is the result of true Naam. Love is not the pre condition.
- Balbir ji, please provide a reference from Gurudev. I will be grateful."

ਸੇ ਲਾਲ ਭਏ ਗੂੜੈ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤੇ ਜਿਨ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗਾਇਆ ॥੩॥ 
से लाल भए गूड़ै रंगि राते जिन गुर मिलि हरि हरि गाइआ ॥३॥
"say laal bha-ay goorhai rang raatay jin gur mil har har gaa-i-aa." SGGS 1003-13
They become red dyed in fast color who with Gur sing Hari Hari.

- Balbir ji where is love and naam refered here. Is it hari rang, sahaj rang or prem rang or they are all same. Please clarify !! 
 Also please let us know what do you think of this shabad:
ibnu ipAwrY Bgiq n hoveI nw suKu hoie srIir ]
b*i*n p*i**aa*r*ai* bhagath n h*o*v*ee* n*aa* s*u*kh h*o*e sar*ee*r ||

pRym pdwrQu pweIAY gur BgqI mn DIir ]6]
pr*ae*m padh*aa*rathh p*aa**ee**ai* g*u*r bhagath*ee* man dhh*ee*r ||6||

ijs no Bgiq krwey so kry gur sbd vIcwir ]
j*i*s n*o* bhagath kar*aa*e*ae* s*o* kar*ae* g*u*r sabadh v*ee*ch*aa*r ||
ihrdY eyko nwmu vsY haumY duibDw mwir ]7]
h*i*radh*ai* e*ae*k*o* n*aa*m vas*ai* ho*u*m*ai* dh*u*b*i*dhh*aa* m*aa*r ||7||
Panna - 429

There are many more such shabad's. Let me know if you need references.


Quote:
Quote "One reaches God following no one but accompanying the Sabad Guru.
- Who doesn't know this Balbir ji, but how to accompany the Sabad Guru, thats the question ?"
It is the high goodly time. Come to know true Simran.

- Balbir ji, how to do the "true simran". How will I come to know it, please let us/me know that as well.


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 19, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and TGill Jee!

Quote "Why would Guru ask for anything for that matter, he is the giver of everything."
The True Guru says. God is the Giver.
The preacher, interested in a dhandhaa (business), says that the Guru is the giver of everything.
The preacher installs first the Guru into a symbol of inertia. Then he invites all to visit him for offerings.

Quote "It can be loving devotion of a child that he offers something to Guru. Rumallas can be one, or someone can come up with something innovative."
Please do not divert the child away from God by training him to offer Rumaalaa. Offering material things are for material purposes or pleasures.

Quote "Is it ? please provide reference from Gurudev that Guru delivers naam in mind. I will be grateful."
This is your interpretation.

Quote "Are you trying to say that Guru Gobind Singh never made Granth the Guru. Please clarify !"
The Guroo's words become the true Guru when one receives true Naam Simran, not before that by imitating preachers.

Quote "Please define spiritual development and how is love different from it."
Spiritual development is possible with true Naam Simran. Definition of it is for text books.

Quote "What is 'Gur Prasad' Balbir ji, can you please elaborate on this !"
'Gur Prasaad' is receiving the Gur as Prasaad. It is the Godly Sweetness.
It has nothing to do with Halwaa (KaRah Prasaad).

Quote "Balbir ji where is love and naam refered here. Is it hari rang, sahaj rang or prem rang or they are all same. Please clarify !!"
Some are working hard to understand the Guru's words by analyzing through mind. I am not sure if they can understand another explanation too.

Quote "Balbir ji, how to do the "true simran". How will I come to know it, please let us/me know that as well."
Try to seek the company of a True Sadhu or Saint. Beg for it.


Balbir Singh


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 19, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and TGill Jee!

Thanks for the wonderful Sabad from Gurdev.
Gurdev has mentioned the word 'piaaray' for Naam.  In the same Sabad Gurdev is singing. 

ਆਵਹਿ ਇਸੁ ਰਾਸੀ ਕੇ ਵਾਪਾਰੀਏ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਿਆਰਾ ॥ 
आवहि इसु रासी के वापारीए जिन्हा नामु पिआरा ॥
"aavahi is raasee kay vaapaaree-ay jinHaa naam pi-aaraa." SGGS Ang 429-15
Come business people of this class whom Naam is dear.

This is my understanding for the referred Vaak from Guru Amardaas Jee.

ਬਿਨੁ ਪਿਆਰੈ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਨਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ਸਰੀਰਿ ॥ 
बिनु पिआरै भगति न होवई ना सुखु होइ सरीरि ॥
"bin pi-aarai bhagat na hova-ee naa sukh ho-ay sareer."
Without Beloved (Naam) worship does not happen, nor well-being of the body.


ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਗੁਰ ਭਗਤੀ ਮਨ ਧੀਰਿ ॥੬॥ 
प्रेम पदारथु पाईऐ गुर भगती मन धीरि ॥६॥
"paraym padaarath paa-ee-ai gur bhagtee man Dheer." ||6||
Love-matter is received. Gur Worship settles in mind. 


ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਾਏ ਸੋ ਕਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥ 
जिस नो भगति कराए सो करे गुर सबद वीचारि ॥
"jis no bhagat karaa-ay so karay gur sabad veechaar."
Whom HE engages in worship he contemplates Gur Sabad (Naam)


ਹਿਰਦੈ ਏਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਸੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਮਾਰਿ ॥੭॥ 
हिरदै एको नामु वसै हउमै दुबिधा मारि ॥७॥
"hirdai ayko naam vasai ha-umai dubiDhaa maar." ||7||.
In heart one Naam abides killing ego, duality.

**************

This is another treasured Vaak from Gurdev to satisfy your curiosity.

ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਮ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਪਿਆਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਵਸਹਿ ਸਾਚਿ ਸੁਹੇਲੀਆ ॥ 
बिनु नाम प्रीति पिआरु नाही वसहि साचि सुहेलीआ ॥
"bin naam pareet pi-aar naahee vaseh saach suhaylee-aa." SGGS Ang 242-11


Balbir Singh


----------



## TGill (Sep 19, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

I stand corrected !! 

Please be sure that you have not pushed me in wrong direction.


----------



## drkhalsa (Sep 20, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Dear Balbir singh ji and Gill ji 

thanks for your post  as they helped making me more recepptive to guru shabd



> Quote "Balbir ji, how to do the "true simran". How will I come to know it, please let us/me know that as well."
> Try to seek the company of a True Sadhu or Saint. Beg for it.


Beg it from whom? 
God or Sadhu?

please Explain

IS IT SOMETHING LIKE THIS !

AMg 873
ang 873
Page 873

goNf ]
godd 
Gond:

* mo kau qwir ly rwmw qwir ly ]
mo ko thaar lae raamaa thaar lae 
Carry me across, O Lord, carry me across.*

mY Ajwnu jnu qirby n jwnau bwp bITulw bwh dy ]1] rhwau ]
mai ajaan jun tharibae n jaano baap beethulaa baah dhae 
I am ignorant, and I do not know how to swim. O my Beloved Father, please give me Your arm. ||1||Pause||

nr qy sur hoie jwq inmK mY siqgur buiD isKlweI ]
nur thae sur hoe jaath nimukh mai sathigur budh sikhulaaee 
I have been transformed from a mortal being into an angel, in an instant; the True Guru has taught me this.

nr qy aupij surg kau jIiqE so AvKD mY pweI ]1]
nur thae oupaj surug ko jeethiou so avukhudh mai paaee 
Born of human flesh, I have conquered the heavens; such is the medicine I was given. ||1||

jhw jhw DUA nwrdu tyky nYku itkwvhu moih ]
jehaa jehaa dhooa naarudh ttaekae naik ttikaavuhu mohi 
Please place me where You placed Dhroo and Naarad, O my Master.

qyry nwm Aivlµib bhuqu jn auDry nwmy kI inj miq eyh ]2]3]
thaerae naam avilunb buhuth jun oudhurae naamae kee nij math eaeh 
With the Support of Your Name, so many have been saved; this is Naam Dayv's understanding. ||2||3||



VERY NICE RECRDING OF ABOVE SHABAD BY BALBIR SINGH   ( CAN BE DOWNLOADED HERE)

MegaShare.com Free Webhosting
PASSWORD:123456

Jatinder Singh


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Jatinder Jee!

Quote "Beg it from whom? God or Sadhu?"
God is the giver of everything. HE gives everything through somebody. HE gives Naam through a true Guroo, Sadhu or a Saint.
Thanks for the wonderful Sabad from Naamdev Jee. In this Sabad Naamdev Jee is not begging for the Naam Simran. He is requesting Raamaa for help to accompany guiding across. This stage is possible only after receiving true Naam and recognizing its importance.

**************

Quote from TGill Jee "Please be sure that you have not pushed me in wrong direction."
The purpose of the discussion is to realize the hunger for truth.
The fruits of such discussions are realized eating those as Naam Prasaad.


Balbir Singh


----------



## TGill (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

But how to find the sadhu whose company shall we keep ?


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## TGill (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Balbir ji,

It suddenly struck my mind, I mean the last pauri in Japji Sahib.

jat pahara dheeraj suniyaar
aheran mat ved hathiyar
bhow khala agan tap tao
*bhanda bhaau amrit {censored} dhaal*
*ghariye sabad sachi taksaal*
jin ko nadar karam tin kaar
nanak nadri nadar nihal


Doesn't that mean that love is a pre-requisite (a bhanda) for sabad (naam).
Please clarify my query..


Regards


----------



## japjisahib04 (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*



TGill said:


> But how to find the sadhu whose company shall we keep ?


 
Gill Ji

The best sadhu whose company will make our life easy are the cassets of Maskins Sahib and Jasbir Singh Khannewaleh You will always find an aura of spirtuality around you while playing these cassets. If you go around any dera you will feel sorry for wasting your precious time.

Regards Sahni Mohinder


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and TGill Jee!

Quote "Doesn't that mean that love is a pre-requisite (a bhanda) for sabad (naam). Please clarify my query.."
Japujee begins with Jap. Later Gurdev explains the developments and results of Jap. Some of these results are that Jat becomes PahaaRaa, Dheeraj becomes Suniyaar . . . Bhaandaa becomes Bhaau.

Quote from Sahni Mohinder Jee "The best sadhu whose company will make our life easy are the cassets of Maskins Sahib and Jasbir Singh Khannewaleh You will always find an aura of spirtuality around you while playing these cassets."
Mohinder Jee, in which Bazaars or shops these Sadhus (cassettes) are available?


Balbir Singh


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*



Balbir Singh said:


> Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
> Mohinder Jee, in which Bazaars or shops these Sadhus (cassettes) are available? Balbir Singh


 
Balbir Jee

You can download from internet or these cassets are available at Gurudwara Bangla Sahib. Trust me it is my experience, these cassets are best sadhu. I have even downloaded these cassets in my mobile so that I can always play and stay around them.

Regards Sahni Mohinder


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## TGill (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Balbir ji

What does "Jap" mean ? Does it mean sabad (naam) or it is different ? . So, If jap is the beginning then why the taksal is required  to "gharo" sabad again...!!


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## Randip Singh (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*



Balbir Singh said:


> Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
> Dear all!
> 
> Sikhs offer their Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Rumaalaas. Who told them that their Guru needs clothing?
> ...


 

I think the Rumala's etc were designed to protect against dust, humidity etc. It is another example of something practicle that has become a ritual.

The Chaur for example was used just to keep flies away, but it has becaome a ritual to wave it over the 11th Guru.


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## Astroboy (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Books or CDs that carry the message of Sri Guru Granth Sahib serve the same purpose of educating the people of the world. Ancients used to write wisdom scripts on palm leaves. Ayurvedic scholars still have palmleaf writings when the same can be put into a hard disc or CD. 

Imagine the mixed response one will get from the sangat in a gurdwara if - instead of performing prakash and smapti ceremony of Granth Sahib, it got replaced by a ceremony of opening and closing a laptop with the SGGS saved in the hard disc along with the various other banis. 

Who is going to decide on new Maryada. We cannot have an up-dated Maryada every 5 years. Because human emotions take a longer time to come in terms with rules and regulations and the sikh panth. Some people take 7 to 12 years to come in terms with their inner selves before embracing Sikhism. If the Maryada is changed too often too soon, then there is going to be more confusion in the already confused minds. 
Instead of spending time explaining about the wisdom of the Gurus, we will end up explaining to our children why there are so many sects in Sikhism.

Imagine a Sikh boy telling his parents in year 2020 : "Mom, you won't believe what happened today. A new sikh boy enrolled at school today and we got talking about our differences. He even invited me to go to the Gurdwara where they have the Sri Guru Granth Sahib in the book form with real pages."
Mom replies, " Wow, son that's brilliant. I'll come with you and take some photos of the book, it will be a historical event for me too. Don't know if I would be able to contain my tears. I have always wished there was unity amongst all the sikhs."


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and TGill Jee!

Quote "What does 'Jap' mean ? Does it mean sabad (naam) or it is different ?"
Thirst shows the basic need. The wisdom of drinking is in drinking water.
Meeting God is the natural aptitude. The wisdom of Jap is in japping the Sabad.

Quote "So, If jap is the beginning then why the taksal is required to 'gharo' sabad again...!!"
With Jap one begins japping the Sabad. Its continuity is 'gharhee-ai sabad sachee taksaal'. It is minting the same ONE Sabad.

**************

Quote from Randip Jee "I think the Rumala's etc were designed to protect against dust, humidity etc. It is another example of something practicle that has become a ritual."
Thanks for your views. May I ask why they did not use a wooden box for this purpose?

**************

Quote from Begum Jee "Imagine the mixed response one will get from the sangat in a gurdwara if - instead of performing prakash and smapti ceremony of Granth Sahib, it got replaced by a ceremony of opening and closing a laptop with the SGGS saved in the hard disc along with the various other banis."
Modernizing or replacing rituals do not help the conscious mind grow. True Simran of Naam helps.

Quote "Instead of spending time explaining about the wisdom of the Gurus, we will end up explaining to our children why there are so many sects in Sikhism.
So our purpose will be truly lost."
No way, explaining the wisdom of truth is possible. Still, the way is to experience it. It is the true Naam Simran.
All activities are in vain till its purpose is to receive true Naam.
All activities are worth enlivening true Naam.


Balbir Singh


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## Astroboy (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Balbir Ji,

As you can see, the Sangat has been honest enough by answering from their hearts when they responded to your "rumala question". If your intention was not really the rumala issue but to stress on the point of naam simran, then why didn't you come to the point from the beginning ? 

May I request that you discuss the steps to achieve Naam Simran in your very creative way so that we can benefit from your personal encounters. Chances are that we will not meet face to face or even talk by phone. 

If you do have good intentions for the Sangat, we are all ears. 

~ begum ~


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## TGill (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Balbir ji

Quote:
Thirst shows the basic need. The wisdom of drinking is in drinking water.
Meeting God is the natural aptitude. The wisdom of Jap is in japping the Sabad. With Jap one begins japping the Sabad. Its continuity is 'gharhee-ai sabad sachee taksaal'. It is minting the same ONE Sabad.

- .. You are really funny !!:}{}{}:


----------



## japjisahib04 (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*



begum said:


> Books or CDs that carry the message of Sri Guru Granth Sahib serve the same purpose of educating the people of the world. Ancients used to write wisdom scripts on palm leaves. Ayurvedic scholars still have palmleaf writings when the same can be put into a hard disc or CD.
> 
> Imagine the mixed response one will get from the sangat in a gurdwara if - instead of performing prakash and smapti ceremony of Granth Sahib, it got replaced by a ceremony of opening and closing a laptop with the SGGS saved in the hard disc along with the various other banis. "


 
Begum Ji

It all depends how we use the modern technology. For example with the advent of nuclear technology whether we use it for destruction or peaceful purpose. I find hearing kirtan from my mobile so handy and useful that I feel now I am addicted to hearing kirtan and nothing else.

Regards sahni mohinder


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Begum Jee!

Quote "As you can see, the Sangat has been honest enough by answering from their hearts when they responded to your 'rumala question'. If your intention was not really the rumala issue but to stress on the point of naam simran, then why didn't you come to the point from the beginning ?"
I have a request to all who have offered many 'Rumaalas' to their Guru. When will they come to know true Simran?
Offering 'Rumaalaa' is not a technique of meditation. Nor the true Guru ever asked us to do so.

Quote "May I request that you discuss the steps to achieve Naam Simran in your very creative way so that we can benefit from your personal encounters. Chances are that we will not meet face to face or even talk by phone."
One could have received true Simran long back if getting it was possible by reading it, discussing it. 
Still, one can sing it and its results.

Quote "If you do have good intentions for the Sangat, we are all ears."
Only those bring ears near the mouth of the true Guru (GurMukh) who are born with good luck.

**************

Quote from TGill Jee "You are really funny !!"
Better recognize your preachers who are making fun of all Sikhs and the Gurus.

One needs the technique and the means first to mint the coins. Similarly one needs the Gur and the true Guroo first and the minting of the true Sabad starts. All engagements and activities are then God's business through the coin of Naam.

**************

Quote "I find hearing kirtan from my mobile so handy and useful that I feel now I am addicted to hearing kirtan and nothing else."
The true Gurus always suggested listening, true Hari Naam. Singing Hari Keertan is the result of Hari Naam.
In all my company with the Sat Guroo He did not suggest me once to hear the borrowed songs from a Raagee. He also never advised to listen pseudo interpreters lacking true Naam Simran.
Perhaps someone can provide me a reference from the Gurus where they have asked anyone to listen a Raagee. I will be grateful. 

The true Sikh and all his living are no more an imitation.


Balbir Singh


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## TGill (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Balbir ji

- I don't subscribe to preachers since childhood !! I don't know whats wrong with me, I only subcribe to my own mann... probably that is why I'm a manmukh.

Quote : Similarly one needs the Gur and the true Guroo first and the minting of the true Sabad starts. All engagements and activities are then God's business through the coin of Naam.

- Must be true..but how will I know ... Alas ! The luck has not arrived yet.
But one thing, you said jap is the pre-requisite and now you say Guru is the pre-condition ( but how to get the Gur? is it possible via jap). Please clear the confusion... I'm still not clear what is jap. how is it different from shabad ? I must be totally confusing all. Let me be more clear

I mean :
- You said you need Gur from the True guru but how to get the gur - what shall we do.
- Earlier you said jap is the beginning and rest is the outcome. So what is the beginning Guru or Jap, what is the difference ? 
           - Right now I am supposing Gurprasad is the beginning and then comes Jap !! Please correct me .... 
- minting is later stage I don't even know the beginning, what is the beginning. Please be precise.


Regards


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

One receives the Gur as Prasaad. Jap begins. The Gur becomes true Gur in the company of a true Saint or Sadhu. All happens by God's Grace and our past deeds.


Balbir Singh


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*



Balbir Singh said:


> "I find hearing kirtan from my mobile so handy and useful that I feel now I am addicted to hearing kirtan and nothing else."
> The true Gurus always suggested listening, true Hari Naam. Singing Hari Keertan is the result of Hari Naam. In all my company with the Sat Guroo He did not suggest me once to hear the borrowed songs from a Raagee. He also never advised to listen pseudo interpreters lacking true Naam Simran.
> Perhaps someone can provide me a reference from the Gurus where they have asked anyone to listen a Raagee. I will be grateful. The true Sikh and all his living are no more an imitation. Balbir Singh


 
Balbir jee 

you are great. Gurbani rightly states, jithai bolan harieye teethai changi chup/ May God bless you with kirtan. 
Regards sahni mohinder


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## drkhalsa (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*



> Quote "I find hearing kirtan from my mobile so handy and useful that I feel now I am addicted to hearing kirtan and nothing else."
> The true Gurus always suggested listening, true Hari Naam. Singing Hari Keertan is the result of Hari Naam.
> In all my company with the Sat Guroo He did not suggest me once to hear the borrowed songs from a Raagee. He also never advised to listen pseudo interpreters lacking true Naam Simran.
> Perhaps someone can provide me a reference from the Gurus where they have asked anyone to listen a Raagee. I will be grateful.
> ...




Dear Balbir Singh ji

Thanks for the post !

I must state thet I dont have wisdom to answer your question but i think all is the domain of akal and so its happening 

Still I am cuerious aboutsome things!

Is the physical presnence of Sadhu must to get the Gur or it can be transfered even through pther communication like internet ??

I also enjoy listening to Kirtan ( your so called songs of raagee) and I enjoy it and usually it fills me with joy and strong curosity and desire to realise God 

Is all this illusion and nothin really significant in it that can help me spirtually



Thanks


Jatinder Singh


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Jatinder Jee!

Quote "Is the physical presnence of Sadhu must to get the Gur or it can be transfered even through pther communication like internet ??"
God is the giver of everything. God's Will acts through a farmer, vegetable seller, the buyer, the cook and the eater also. One recognizes God's Gifts and Will through the presence of the middle persons and means.
One receives the Wisdom of Naam through the Sat Guroo, true Saint or a Sadhu.
The day, when people can distribute edibles through Internet, true Naam will also be possible to transfer perhaps.

Quote "I also enjoy listening to Kirtan ( your so called songs of raagee) and I enjoy it and usually it fills me with joy and strong curosity and desire to realise God"
Reading scriptures and hearing songs from a Raagee have one purpose. Those raise the curiosity and desire to realize God.
Realization of merging in God again is possible through Naam Simran.

Quote "Is all this illusion and nothin really significant in it that can help me spirtually"
The enlightened person sings Keertan when He realizes God. 
A Raagee sings to make others realize spending some money.

The Guru's words are truly significant when we realize the Guru's message. Come to know Simran.
One becomes joyful listening, Guru's Hymns praising Naam. Just imagine what will happen when he comes to know true Simran.


Balbir Singh


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## TGill (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Balbir ji

Quote: One receives the Gur as Prasaad. Jap begins. The Gur becomes true Gur in the company of a true Saint or Sadhu. All happens by God's Grace and our past deeds.

- Balbir ji please make me clear, first you said jap is the beginning, then you said Guru is the beginning and now you are saying deeds are the beginning.
- So if deeds are the beginning why you always say that "come to know true simran", how can a person come to know it without his luck ( from deeds) . So if deeds are beginning then just do good deeds, love everyone, don't worry about simran. Am I right or still far away ?


And about Ragees I think Guru is the one to be blamed, he sang his banee in raags and hence ragis were required who make money by looting people and people are so foolish they give away their hard earned money to false people.
Right Balbir ji


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## TGill (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

I like this poem of Baba Bulle Shah a lot, so just wanted to share with all although most of us must be knowing it :

Ishk di naviyon navi bahaar.

Jaa men sabak ishk da paddheya, masjid kolon jiuada dareya,
Dere ja thaakar de vaddeya, jithe vajde naad hazaar.

Ja men ramaz ishk di paayi, maina tota maar gavaayi,
Andar baahar hui safaai, jit val vekhaan yaaro yaar.

Heer raanjhe de ho gaye mele, bhulli heer dhunddendi bele
Raanjha yaar bukkal vich khele, mennu sudh rahi na saar

Ved koraanaan paddh paddh thakke, sajde kardeyaan ghass gaye mathey
Na rabb teerath na rabb makkey, jiss paaya tiss noor anwaar.

Phook mussalla, bhhann sitt lota, na phadd tasbi, kaassa, sota.
Aashiq kahende de de hauka tarak halaalon, kha murdaar.

Umar gavaayi vich maseeti, andar bhareya naal paleeti
Kadey namaaz tauheed na keeti, hun ki karna eh shor pukaar.

Ishk bhulaaya sajada tera, hun kyun aiven paanven jheda,
Bulla hunda chupp bathera, ishk karendi maaro maar.

Ishk di naviyon navi bahaar.


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and TG ill Jee!

Quote "Balbir ji please make me clear, first you said jap is the beginning, then you said Guru is the beginning and now you are saying deeds are the beginning."
This is your interpretation. 
Let me try again to explain the true Guru's words.

Jap begins in an individual when he receives its Gur as Prasaad. This is true from the beginning of existence.
Gurdev is singing "bin gur kinai na paa-i-o hari naam har satay." SGGS 1093-7.
Without Gur no one has found Hari Naam, truth of Hari.
Here Gurdev is singing about receiving Naam for an individual. Naam is from the beginning of the existence true though.

Quote "So if deeds are the beginning why you always say that "come to know true simran", how can a person come to know it without his luck ( from deeds) . So if deeds are beginning then just do good deeds, love everyone, don't worry about simran. Am I right or still far away ?"
Those who have not done good deeds in the past their ego keeps them engaged in this life also trying to love everyone without worrying about Simran. It is their luck that they continue asking where to find this Gur without actually worrying about receiving it.
Please listen. Gurdev is singing.
"jis karam khuli-aa tis lahi-aa parh-daa jin gur peh mani-aa subhaa-ay." SGGS 1001-19
Whose karmas open his veil is removed who through Gur experienced well.

I do not know when Karmas of those will open whose mind convinces them to lie and offer clothing to their Guru wearing the mask of love.

Quote "And about Ragees I think Guru is the one to be blamed, . . ."
Come to know the true Guru. You will not have any more words to say something like that again.

**************

Thanks for the pleasant poem. This poem is the result of what Bulle Shah sang earlier.
"Ik nuktaa yaar paRhaayaa ay."


Balbir Singh


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## TGill (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Regarding the deeds I accept all that you said !! Don't know when the luck will open and I will throw my false mask of love ...

I wish I come to know the true Guru as well :{-


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 27, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and TGill Jee!

Quote "I wish I come to know the true Guru as well"
The true Guru is well known. The true Guru is inviting all occasionally to seek and receive true Naam. It is the mind that never accept the invitation. The true Guru goes on sending messages.

ਮਤਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਰਤਨ ਜਵਾਹਰ ਮਾਣਿਕ ਜੇ ਇਕ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਿਖ ਸੁਣੀ ॥ 
मति विचि रतन जवाहर माणिक जे इक गुर की सिख सुणी ॥
"mat vich ratan javaahar maanik jay ik gur kee sikh sunee." SGGS-2

Balbir Singh


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## TGill (Sep 27, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Quite funny !!

Thanks for revealing the True Guru.


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 28, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and TGill Jee!

Quote "Thanks for revealing the True Guru."
The seeker does not give up on the way. The true Seeker goes on till he receives the Gur from the true Guroo. The Satguroo transforms the seeker into the true Sikh enriching with the true experience of the Gur. The Gur becomes Satgur. The seeker becomes a true Sikh.


Balbir Singh


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## drkhalsa (Sep 28, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Dera Balbir Singh Ji

Thanks for the Post !

I have few query if you would like to answer then please do reply 

There seems to be relation between GUR and NAAM  as appear from your earlier ( my interpretation) are both the same or one is resultant of other 


In one of the post above you said if some days sweets cpuld be distributed through internet then offcorse Naam would also be possible 

does this makes NAAM something with Form  just like food items? 



Thanks


Jatinder Singh


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## Archived_member2 (Sep 28, 2007)

*Re: The True Guru is Revealing*

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Jatinder Jee!

Quote "There seems to be relation between GUR and NAAM as appear from your earlier ( my interpretation) are both the same or one is resultant of other."
Naam moves toward God leading the consciousness. The Gur is the technique. With this technique Naam begins to move in an individual in the true sense. One achieves the results as Gurus have described.

Quote "does this makes NAAM something with Form just like food items?"
Naam is not only the sound that they can condense in an avi or mp3 format. The presence of all Godly Forces becomes active in the cosmos and assist.

YouTube is full of such pseudo Gurus who are teaching meditation on Internet. Some also claim to teach Naam technique.


Balbir Singh


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