# Sikh Loses Right To Wear Turban In Driving License Photo



## Vikram singh (Nov 28, 2008)

LONDON: A Sikh person has lost the  right to wear turban in his driving licence photograph, following a ruling by a  European   court. 

Shingara Singh Mann, a French national, had appealed to the  European Court of Human Rights to give him the right to wear a turban while  being snapped for his new driving licence, after losing a series of appeals in  France. 

Under French regulations, motorists are required to appear  bareheaded and facing forward in their licence photos. 

However, as the  Sikh  religion requires men to wear a turban at all times,  52-year-old Singh took his case to the ECHR complaining that the French  regulations made no provision for separate treatment for members of his  community. 

But the Strasbourg-based court dismissed the case and ruled  that "identity photographs for use on driving licences which showed the subject  bareheaded were needed by authorities in charge of public safety", leading  British newspaper the 'Daily Mail' reported. 

In a statement, though it  recognised that the rule on photographs " *amounted to interference with the  exercise of the right to freedom of religion * "  the court judged that in Singh's case, it was justified. 

Freedom of  religion "did not always guarantee the right to behave in a manner governed by a  religious belief and did not confer on people who did so the right to disregard  rules that had proved to be justified", the court said.


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## JimRinX (Nov 30, 2008)

*Re: Sikh Loses Right to Wear Turan in Driving License Photo*

This makes me as sad as the fact that I _still _cannot find Ocean of Pearls on any Internet Movie Site or in any Store (online or otherwise); as - though I'm _still _basically one of Tenzins (i.e.: The Dalai Lama) Buddhist Devotees - I feel that you Sikhs and I and very much Kindered Sprirts; but then I feel that way about Hindus and Taoists and Sufi and......just about anyone but Hypocritcal so-called Christians!
Here's Strategy Suggestion for the Good Ji in the land of 'Liberty, Fraternity, Equality'; find out if Catholic Nuns have to take off their Habits to get _their _Drivers License Photos!!!
If the answer is OUI - then I'm afraid that I have to side with Public Safety, as this is a not illegitimate concern; if the Answer is NO, then SUE THE *%$#@&!!!!:inca:
I kknow it must STINK to be a Devout Sikh and get the 'Terroist' run around from Ignorant Westerners; please bear with us - and remember that it's really not your fault, but that of those crazy Mullahs.
Their 'Satan' :}8-: will feast on their Livers.
Anyone whose seen the Photos of Turbaned Sikhs _shooting at _the 'Bad Guys' in Mumbai knows the Truth about your People; you should play on that - rather than getting angry; that's what the 'Bush Doctrine' People - and their 'Crazed Mullah' adversaries - NEED YOU TO DO. Don't let them play what we call the 'both ends against the middle' game with you.
Much Love - and Respect; hope things get better for you - just don't be too Dogmatic when it comes to controlling the very real threat of Violent Crime.


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## Hari Atma (Nov 30, 2008)

*Re: Sikh Loses Right to Wear Turan in Driving License Photo*

The French and now British need a lesson in Freedom of Religion.  A Sikh needs to be granted the right to wear a turban since his/her religion dictates that as their lifestyle. If they are not allowed to wear their turban while driving then how can they be practicing the rehit? A turban is not something like a hat to be taken on and off, but rather something that makes a statement of commitment. It is wrong for the French and British to not allow a Sikh to practice their religion. I feel we need to all write letters and set them straight.


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## Lucy Ahmed (Dec 3, 2008)

*Re: Sikh Loses Right to Wear Turan in Driving License Photo*

I don't know...but...when we live in 'their' country, once in a while may be we should bend. 

p/s sorry do not mean to disrespect.


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## Astroboy (Dec 3, 2008)

*Re: Sikh Loses Right to Wear Turan in Driving License Photo*



Lucy Ahmed said:


> I don't know...but...when we live in 'their' country, once in a while may be we should bend.
> 
> p/s sorry do not mean to disrespect.




Watch this:

YouTube - Glorious Earth


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## spnadmin (Dec 3, 2008)

*Re: Sikh Loses Right to Wear Turan in Driving License Photo*



Lucy Ahmed said:


> I don't know...but...when we live in 'their' country, once in a while may be we should bend.
> 
> p/s sorry do not mean to disrespect.



Lucy ji

Usually I agree that it is important to be flexible, flexible without losing a moral center or giving up on core values. However, the thing that perplexes me most about this story is this. A driver's license photo should look like you when you are driving a car -- so that a policeman (gendarme or Bobby) can match your face with your pic. So why would a driver's license have a picture on it that doesn't look the way a person would normally look? This story suggests that the brains of government bureaucrats have gone on a stampede (like a bunch of crazy buffaloes). :}8-:


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## pk70 (Dec 4, 2008)

*Re: Sikh Loses Right to Wear Turan in Driving License Photo*



aad0002 said:


> Lucy ji
> 
> Usually I agree that it is important to be flexible, flexible without losing a moral center or giving up on core values. However, the thing that perplexes me most about this story is this. A driver's license photo should look like you when you are driving a car -- so that a policeman (gendarme or Bobby) can match your face with your pic. So why would a driver's license have a picture on it that doesn't look the way a person would normally look? This story suggests that the brains of government bureaucrats have gone on a stampede (like a bunch of crazy buffaloes). :}8-:



* Excellent point expressed and this is the point that bothers me; in democratic countries such things should have no place.
" Bending is must in totalitarian regimes" Is that country has a totalitarian regime?*


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## spnadmin (Dec 4, 2008)

*Re: Sikh Loses Right to Wear Turan in Driving License Photo*

pk70

There is almost no situation I can think of where a turban poses a threat to the safety of an individual or society. If there is a concern about concealing a weapon -- let's think about that. How big would it be? Would there not be a strange bulge on the man's head?  The suspension of the rights of an individual to privacy and integrity of person under the US constitution has to be based on a finding of a "clear and pressing" danger. How does that concept work in the UK?

I wonder, if this happened in the States, whether these would be violations not only of the 1rst Amendment - freedom of speech, association, petition and religion; but also of the 4th (search and seizure) and the 9th (other individual liberties not specified) Amendments. Anyway, logic did not prevail in this instance. As it did not prevail in the story about 3 eminent Gurbani raagis forced off a United Airlines flight from San Francisco.


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## Lucy Ahmed (Dec 4, 2008)

Yes, I do understand. But how about with those, who are trying to abuse the system...the rules? For example: one who don't wear turban, but due to some other motive suddenly think what a great way to mislead the authority..(?)

Sometimes a uniformity is desirable in a system.


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## Astroboy (Dec 4, 2008)

Reminds me of the chicken and eagle story.


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## Dharam Singh (Dec 25, 2008)

When you take a drivers license photo and you have glasses, they tell you to ware them. They do that so when the police pulls you over they can see if your wearing your glasses. It is the same concept with the turban. We ware a tunban when we are driving.


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