# Rana Caste



## dream

hi,

can anyone tell me Sikh Rana(surname) comes under which category. Some says rajput and some Jatt. 

Regards


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## spnadmin

dream ji

Your screen name is great! Anyway I was intrigued by your question and looked it up. In fact the first hit on the Internet gave me 5 different answers.

One thing to keep in mind though is that the varna system or caste system was not in the olden days as rigid as it is today in the middle levels. Entire families or clans were known to gather, take a vote, and then declare themselves members of a higher caste.  A Brahmin could not go lower and a sudra could not rise higher. But among "jaats" this was not unheard of.  The caste identity also varied from region to region in India historically -- so this may explain confusion over the name "Rana"

Here is the link and I will look for other links. This link gives several answer, including Rajput, Jaat, and Khastryia

Link: What caste did the Hindu surname Rana fall in? It is a Gujrati surname ????????/ - Yahoo! Answers India

I will keep looking for you.


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## spnadmin

Once again -- a mixed answer! This one is from Nation-Master Encyclopedia



Rana (title), a variation on Raja, a Hindu (Hindi and other languages, mainly Rajput) princely title of royalty (see also Maharana); hence:
The Rana dynasty, an influential family in Nepal since the 19th century
The name of a Hindu Gujarati family
Rana Family, a Family (clan) in Rajputs, Gujjar and Jats in India
 
You are going to have a lot of fun with this one. Just put the words "rana name caste" in the Google search engine and you can see for yourself. You are not going to get one answer.


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## Ms Rana

Although Sikhism doesn't believe in a caste system, however sometimes, i feel that an individual might be interested in finding out information aout his/her background. This curiosity led me to find out about RANA caste. DUring the medieval centuries, Rajputs converted into sikhs or muslims and some just ocntinued to be hindus and hence we find RANAs in all these three religious communities. However, this is the background for most Rana Sikhs:

Rajput Goldsmiths conmprise of the following castes: Gogna, Kanda, Shinh, Rana, Verma, Sudhera, Sahdev, Sisodia, Bagga.


GOLDSMITHS
A goldsmith is a metalworker who specializes in working with gold and other precious metals, usually in modern times to make jewelry. Historically goldsmiths have also made flatware, platters, goblets, decorative and serviceable utensils, and ceremonial or religious items, but the rising prices of precious metals have curtailed the making of such items to a large degree. Goldsmiths must be skilled in forming metal through filing, soldering, sawing, forging, casting, and polishing metal. Traditionally, these skills had been passed along through apprenticeships, however, more recently Jewelry Arts Schools specializing solely in teaching goldsmithing and a multitude of skills falling under the jewelry arts umbrella are available. Many universities and junior colleges also offer goldsmithing, silversmithing and metal arts fabrication as a part of their fine arts curriculum
RAJPUTS HISTORY
Mair Rajputs or Maid Rajputs is the name of a Hindu Punjabi caste in India from amongst the Punjabi Rajputs. They are Hindu by religion and comprise of the warrior race of Rajputs who had originally migrated hundreds of years ago from the regions of Ajmer-Merwara and Rajputana with the movement of the armies that brought Rajput rule over Punjab, many in other times due to Islamic invasions on their homeland of Ajmer-Merwara (in present day Rajasthan) and had settled down in Punjab several hundred years ago.
During the ensuing prolonged period of lasting peace there after when they could not be supported by the armies and could not find any work as warriors or in other times when many chose not to enlist in Muslim armies who had come to rule after many successive invasions on India, those Hindu Rajputs who came to be known as Mair or Maid Rajputs in Punjab chose to work as Sunars to survive. "Sunar" is a Hindi word for Goldsmith and Jeweler, (Sunyara is the word for them in local Punjabi language) in India, a metalworker who specializes in working with gold and also at the same time is a businessman specializing in selling gold, silver, other precious metals including precious stones and jewelry / ornaments crafted from these. In time it soon became a well known fact thereafter, locally in Punjab, that the profession and business of "Sunars" was monopolized and run by Hindu Rajputs who had slowly become a subcaste of the Punjabi Rajputs by then and became known as "Mair Rajputs".
With the partition of India in 1947 into India and Pakistan the Indian state of Punjab was also split in two. Hindus and Sikhs including Mair Rajputs living in the portion of Punjab that was given to the newly created Muslim country of Pakistan had to leave by force to save themselves from communal slaughters and forceful conversion to Islam, many of them fled their ancestral homeland now in Pakistan in a complete destitute state and had to start life afresh in India. All their ancestral land, property and wealth was left behind in what was now Pakistan. 
Life was tough for the refugees including the Mair Rajputs at the beginning after partition; they had to live in a destitute state in refugee camps in India before they were allotted specially constructed houses in the Refugee colonies by the government of India. Many of them settled in Delhi and other parts of India after partition.
Today they are again a very successful clan of people and have brought pride for their families and country by excelling in all walks of life, many of them joined the Armed Forces. The British recruited from this clan too from amongst the Rajputs for their Rajput Regiments due to their famous Rajput warrior bloodline and today the Indian Army continuous this tradition.
A small percentage of them still continue to do business and practice as Sunars however majority of them were abruptly shocked to find that in portions of India outside Punjab where they had to migrate to (after the partition of India), the profession of Sunars was considered as something practiced by the lowest in the Hindu caste system known as the "Shudras / workers" who were still considered "untouchables" by some. Mair Rajputs in their recent history having been craftsmen working with Gold and precious metals, the Indian government gave them the classification of OBC (Other Backward Classes) clubbing them with other lower caste Sunars and craftsmen in the newly independent India giving them the option of using their OBC status to make use of special quotas and privileges set aside for them in higher education and government employment etc. to enable them to better their situation but as Rajputs they would be classified under Forward class with no additional privileges. Mair Rajputs are of the warrior cast "Kshatriya" which is the second highest cast in India after the learned "Brahmins". "Kshatriya" or the Rajputs are the ruling cast of India, a cast of Warriors and Kings / Rajas. Thus the Mair Rajput families after having migrated out of Punjab (the portion that was given to create the Muslim country of Pakistan) to India during partition in 1947 were embarrassed to mention their family craft and business as that of having known to be that of Sunars in the most recent past. They instead preferred to call themselves as "Punjabi Rajputs", which is of course also true and hid any association to Sunars / Goldsmiths / Jewelers. Many had already left practicing as Sunars many generations ago and entered other professions especially after higher education was more readily available.
Today the Mair Rajputs not only live in India but have migrated and settled down all over the world and are doing very well for themselves in all fields, many Mair / Punjabi Rajput associations have cropped up all over the world specially in UK, USA and Canada

HOPE THIS HELPED!
If you are a RANA, let me know too. I am looking for more RANAs in the Sikh community to validate the information I have!


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Things are quite mixed up...what with many "Fake" castes these days...with less checks and balances...( in the old days the Pandits at Hardwaar kept the books..vahis..to record each death/birth/marriage etc and thus each oens family caste etc could be traced back generations and the village people knew every detail...) now adays peopel fly away..migrate overnight....and arrive in a new neighbourhood...can actually CHOOSE what new name they wnat...so what was a "Chumiar..or Ravidassiah" in Punjab...overnight becomes a "GILL" or a "DHILLON" in Canada. I personally know two such "ghumiar" who are NOW "GILL" in canada. So the Field is getting pretty murky....real information is getting blurred..."GOOD"'maybe..becasue SOON everyone will be a GILL/DHILLON etc ( so called high/jatt/castes".....and we may all become equal !!

Anyway this is quite tongue in cheek..dont let me discourage you..keep looking...ones ROOTS are important....mine go back a long way...mostly because my family was interested....others dont care so much...


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## dalsingh

I have met Ranas who are both Muslims (Pakistani) and Sikhs in London. The Sikhs who have the name claim to be Jats, whilst the Muslims claim to be from a Rajput background. They are both likely to have the same antecedants.

I have a theory which may explain. I know Randip Singh on the forumdoesn't share my views on this btw. lol

If you look at some early Sikh and Persian sources, they highlight serious conflict between Khalsa Sikhs and Rajput princes/warriors. This is mentioned in Bachitar Natak. It is also recorded that Rajputs resisted Khalsa innovations and remain aloof from them, considering the Khalsa a generally low caste rabble.

Historical processes (i.e. the Sikh revolution) in the 18th century turned things on their head. So some Rajputs converted to Sikhi, some to Islam and some remained Hindu. Within the Muslim community Jats are held in low esteem in comparison to Sikh Panjab. Hence Muslim Rajputs retained their former label, however within Sikh Panjab, I believe that Rajputs changed their identity to Jats, because this had a higher status in that community. 

In London I have met many Pakistani Ranas, Bhattis and Rathors all of whom described themselves as being of Rajput ancestory. As you may know these surnames (gotras) are also very common amongst Sikhs but every Sikh I have encountered with the same surnames so far, have described themselves as being of Jat ancestory. I think the status hypothesis may explain this. 

That being said, some clan names are strange in that they cross so called "castes" (which I think is the bane of SIkhs for the record). So you can meet "Maan" Jats and occasionally Tarkhan ones. Gills can also be Chumar or Jat. I'm not sure of Gyani Jis point because the Gill Chumars I have met do not try and hide their caste and present themselves as Jat. Similarly you can meet "Virdee" Tarkhans as well as "Virdee" Chumars. 

As I am getting older I am seeing that the so called rigid caste system has many holes and is not simply explainable as some linear development of separate communities.  There is a lot more to it than this. Castes labels have probably not been as stable as made out by some.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Dal singh ji,
my point about the Gill Chumars is just this..some are fake jats and soem are not...so some hide and others dont..depends on what is the motive.
That said..this whole caste thign is ina flux from day one...just now i was reading  abook about the 52 castes of the Mazhbi Sikhs...who are descendnats of 52 Main castes ranging from Kamboj rajputs etc etc
The writer explains the various combinations as..Brahmin man + Brahmin Woman =B, Brahimn Man +
 Khatree woman=BK, BK +B=BBK...BBK +K =BBBK, Brahmin man + Chumar woman =BC..etc etc..so you see the Various COMBINATIONS are beyonf numbers/countings....the permutations are endless...and NOT the Simple FOUR CASTES..chaar varnas so commonly cited. Then add in the REGIONAL factors..rajashthani rajputs..siriya bansi moon bansis..this and that...kambojs, scythuians..greeks and what not...
NO WONDER then that GURU JI wanted US OUT of thsi quagmire...quick sand !! is a collosal waste of time and resources...


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## spnadmin

Gyani ji

This is a learning experience. Great series of explanations.


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## ProudMazbhi

Dear Gyani Jarnail Singh ji,

I'm a Mazbhi sikh but raised in Australia and dont know much about my caste. Can you please tell me which book you are reading about Mazbhi sikhs as I want to know more about my caste.

Regards,
ProudMazbhi

my point about the Gill Chumars is just this..some are fake jats and soem are not...so some hide and others dont..depends on what is the motive.
That said..this whole caste thign is ina flux from day one...just now i was reading abook about the 52 castes of the Mazhbi Sikhs...who are descendnats of 52 Main castes ranging from Kamboj rajputs etc etc
The writer explains the various combinations as..Brahmin man + Brahmin Woman =B, Brahimn Man +
Khatree woman=BK, BK +B=BBK...BBK +K =BBBK, Brahmin man + Chumar woman =BC..etc etc..so you see the Various COMBINATIONS are beyonf numbers/countings....the permutations are endless...and NOT the Simple FOUR CASTES..chaar varnas so commonly cited. Then add in the REGIONAL factors..rajashthani rajputs..siriya bansi moon bansis..this and that...kambojs, scythuians..greeks and what not...
NO WONDER then that GURU JI wanted US OUT of thsi quagmire...quick sand !! is a collosal waste of time and resources...[/quote]


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Its Mazhbi Sikhaan da Itihaas by Shamsher Singh Ashok Published by Bhai Chatar Singh Jiwan Singh Amrtisar and ISBN 81-7601-249-1. Ashok was historian of SGPC.
Very interesting and factual research done by the author.
You may be surprised to knwo that the 52 Castes of theose known as KAMBOJ..the Thinds etc of Kapurthala/Jalndhar region are also Mazhbhis but now they consider themsleves to be upwardly mobile and nearer the Jatts as many own a few acres of land and do vegetable farming ...and i dont know if thsi book is available on SPNs bookshop...have a search and see..


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## Randip Singh

Rana are originally Rajput. Rana's are just that, rulers, and I think they are solar dynasty.

We have cousins who are Rana's.

Those Rana's who married Jat, Suniar, Chummar etc women lost thier status and became members of that caste, hence why you get the surname in those groups, but most definitely Rajput. An example of this is Bhai Roop Chand and the Bagrian. Although Bhai Roop Chand was a Khokhar Rapput, his interminglling with Tarkhans, got his status lowered to Tarkhan and his family ancestors (Bagrian), are eading Ramgarhia memebers today.


 The one's I know have serious issues and and anger management problems. 

As for Muslim Rajput, that is an Oxy{censored}. The title Rajput goes alongside defending Dharma (i.e. Hinduism). If you are a Muslim and Rajput, are you defending Hinduism? Even a Sikh could still claim to be Rajput through the 9th Masters sacrifice, but a Muslim? I always find that strange.


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## Randip Singh

The other thing I forgot to mention was that women of non-Raput caste (in this case Jat, Nai, Chammar), were taken into the Rajput "Zanana's". Although not officially married these women were treated as if they were wives, and their ofspring (although they had the fathers name), were granted "Jagirs" etc. This is another way that surnames of Rajputs were passed on.

Another way that surnames were passed on, was by working for a person, i.e. Rajput called Rana emplyed x Jat, y Chammar, z Tarkhan. They took on the family name.


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## AusDesi

randip singh said:


> The one's I know have serious issues and and anger management problems.
> 
> As for Muslim Rajput, that is an Oxy{censored}. The title Rajput goes alongside defending Dharma (i.e. Hinduism). If you are a Muslim and Rajput, are you defending Hinduism? Even a Sikh could still claim to be Rajput through the 9th Masters sacrifice, but a Muslim? I always find that strange.



Glad someone else knows the truth. 

Saying Muslim Rajput is like saying Muslim Brahmin or Muslim Saraswat. It makes no ******* sense. 

Also, its wrong on two accounts. Islam bans Caste but allows tribes. Rajput is not a tribe.

However, the problem with modern day religious people is that they are fine with accepting some things of other religion while discarding others. So muslims might hate Hinduism and its castecism but on the other hand will be proud about having a Rajput background.


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## ProudMazbhi

Thanks a lot Gyani Jarnail Singh ji.

I find it really funny that people in India think that some of them are better or worse because of their caste.

But, I guess this is how the things are back in India. 

Thanks once again.

With Regards,
ProudMazbhi


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## faujasingh

Caste factor does not leave the indian mindset. There are muslim rajputs who take pride in adding Rana to their names. I would suggest this website http://www.sikhrajput.com . I have gone through their guest book and see a lot of muslim rajput entries.

Here is a excerpt from the website in this regard.

Sikh Rajput | Rajput History

Rajput History
Origin and History of Rajputs:



The term "Rajput" is derived from the Sanskrit word raja-putra that means son of a king. The word occurs in the Rigveda and Yajurveda where it is used as a synonym for Raja-nya or Kshatrita. However a distinction is made there between Raj-putras (Rajputs) and Kshatriya: Rajputs are Kshatriyas that are sons of a royal household. There is considerable amount of confusion and controversy among historians regarding the actual origin of Rajputs. Some believe Rajputs to be descendants of Vedic Aryans, some believe them to be of Indo-Scythian origin while others assign foreign origin to only some of the Rajput clans.

The historians that assign Vedic Aryan origin to Rajputs divide them into dynasties: Solar and Lunar. The earliest reference to these dynasties is found in the Mahabharata and Puranas. These dynasties are believed to be two hordes of Aryans who came to India from Central Asia and followed the Solar and Lunar calendar respectively. The Solar Rajputs are believed to have arrived first and settled in the region that is now Haryana State of Republic of India. The Lunar Rajputs are believed to have arrived on the tracks of the Solar Rajputs and initially faced fierce resistance from them. These dynasties are supposed to have then spread all over northern India and all the present clans of Rajputs are descended from them.

Now let’s consider a fantastic myth regarding the origin of Rajputs put forth in Prithiviraja-raso (a ballad written by the court-poet of King Prithiviraja III in circa 1178 AD). According to these, four warriors namely. Parihara. Chaulukya, Parmara, and Chahuvana were created by rishis (Hindu holy men) out of a ceremonial pyre to fight demos. The clans headed by these warriors are eventually supposed to have expanded into thirty-six further clans of Rajputs.

A number of historians assign Indo-Scythian origin to Rajputs although the reasons given for this are multifarious and sometimes contradictory. Scythians were people that lived on the other side of the Hindukush Mountains during the period of the Greco-Bactrian rule in India. Some proponents of this theory point to the affinity in the physical appearance and martial practices and poetry of the Rajputs and Scythians. Other proponents claim that the events of Prithiviraja-Raso are a metaphorical reference to the conversion (cleansing by fire) of a few tribes of Scythians to Hinduism. These tribes are supposed to have been "recruited" by Brahmans to fight other Indo-Scythian tribes that were harassing the Brahmans. The opponents of this theory point to the inherent contradiction in the claim that some Scythian tribes converted en masse to a different religion and took up arms against other Scythian tribes. Finally, some proponents of this theory claim that the present day descendents of the Scythians in the west and the Rajputs India have similar sounding last names and must therefore be of the same origin.

Some historians have combined the above two theories to claim that Rajputs are initially of Vedic Aryan origin but that some Indo-Scythian tribes have also become Rajputs. Despite the disagreements regarding the origin of Rajputs, there is a general consensus that the period from 6th century AD to 13th century AD is the period in which Rajputs flourished the most. He rise to power of the Rajputs coincided with the decline the Gupta Empire in late 5th century AD. The various Rajput clans ruled over a geographical area that is presently Rajasthan, and parts of Punjab and Haryana, the northern States of Republic of India. The decline of the Rajputs began with the defeat in a decisive battle with the Turkish Sultan of Ghor. Although the Rajputs persisted in their resistance of the Muslim invaders, the resistance was mostly fragmentary. The mughal Emperor Aurangzeb putting an end to centuries of Rajput rule finally conquered the last of Rajput kingdoms.

Although the Rajputs were warriors who initially fought to preserve a polytheistic religion (Hinduism) from the influence of a monotheistic religion (Buddhism), a large proportion of Rajputs today practice monotheism in the form of Sikhism and Islam. They have spread all across the globe and are flourishing. It wouldn’t be an exaggeration to say that they have been prominently involved in politics economics and culture of northern Indo-Pak since the 7th century. A large number of books have been written regarding the origin, history and culture of the Rajputs. Some of these are listed below and the interested reader can refer to them for future details.



*References:*


Origin of Rajputs by Jai Narayan Asopa, Bhartiya Publishing House, 1976
Origin of the Rajputs by R. B. Singh, Sahitya Sansar Parkashan, 1975
Caste, Tribes, and Culture of Rajputs edited by K. P. Bahadur. Ess Ess publications, 1978
Lectures on Rajputs History and Culture by Dashratha Sharma, Motilal Banarasidass, 1970
History and Study of the Jats by B. S. Dhillon, Beta publishers Inc., 1994
Jats, The Ancient rulers: A Clan Study by B. S. Dahiya, Sterling Publishers​


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## faujasingh

FYI Rajput is not a caste. The caste is Kshatriya and Rajput is a clan. Rana is a title so is thakur. Each has different meanings. Thakur is for the land owning rajputs. Rana is for rulers. I think Rana is junior to a Raja. A king of a smaller region.


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## faujasingh

There are many muslims of brahmin origin who too were forcefully converted. A.R. Antulay a former CM of the state of Maharashtra use to proudly say during campaigning with Indira gandhi that his origins were brahmin.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

faujasingh said:


> There are many muslims of brahmin origin who too were forcefully converted. A.R. Antulay a former CM of the state of Maharashtra use to proudly say during campaigning with Indira gandhi that his origins were brahmin.




so one cant take the "brahmin" out of anyone ?? No wonder the SIKHS cant shake off this Caste monkey off our tails...


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## AusDesi

faujasingh said:


> FYI Rajput is not a caste. The caste is Kshatriya and Rajput is a clan. Rana is a title so is thakur. Each has different meanings. Thakur is for the land owning rajputs. Rana is for rulers. I think Rana is junior to a Raja. A king of a smaller region.


Having 'Rajput' origin and being a Rajput are two different things. Rana is a title so yes it can be given to anyone.


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## AusDesi

faujasingh said:


> There are many muslims of brahmin origin who too were forcefully converted. A.R. Antulay a former CM of the state of Maharashtra use to proudly say during campaigning with Indira gandhi that his origins were brahmin.


Brahmins traditionally have a role to play in a society. Ok tell me this, Will Antulay take daan? daan is the offering people give to a brahmin which supposedly goes to their ancestors. Will Antulay take daan and bless the people because that is the job of a brahmin.


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## AusDesi

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> so one cant take the "brahmin" out of anyone ?? No wonder the SIKHS cant shake off this Caste monkey off our tails...


You can but people don't want to. It gives them pleasure of having a 'puch' as you say.


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## Lee

Wow that was very confusing.  I just don't understand the caste system at all, I always thought it was to do with the last name the family name, but reading through this thread shows that it is just not that simple.

I'm English, over here we still have the class system(although our goverment likes to pretend we don't) but it is all about money.

I grew up in a poor family which makes me working class, now no matter how much I earn that will never change, but my children can be said to be middle class.


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## Randip Singh

Lee said:


> Wow that was very confusing. I just don't understand the caste system at all, I always thought it was to do with the last name the family name, but reading through this thread shows that it is just not that simple.
> 
> I'm English, over here we still have the class system(although our goverment likes to pretend we don't) but it is all about money.
> 
> I grew up in a poor family which makes me working class, now no matter how much I earn that will never change, but my children can be said to be middle class.


 
Most Rajputs are poor too, and have taken to profession which they think are humiliating like ploughing, artisan, and merchant work, but they still think they are better than the richest Jatt.

Weird I know. I live in this weird world and still don't get it.


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## Lee

Heh yes weird is the word, and what else is weird is that to my mind ploughing, well that's good honest work that provides food, artisan, where would we be with such skilled people and merchants, well in this Capitilist and consumer driven world, I guess we can't work without them also.

Weird indeed, but strangely wonderfull for it.


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## AusDesi

randip singh said:


> Most Rajputs are poor too, and have taken to profession which they think are humiliating like ploughing, artisan, and merchant work, but they still think they are better than the richest Jatt.



Same could be said about the Jats. They show off about their bravery when its kind of obvious that there are brave and cowardly in every community.


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## faujasingh

AusDesi said:


> Brahmins traditionally have a role to play in a society. Ok tell me this, Will Antulay take daan? daan is the offering people give to a brahmin which supposedly goes to their ancestors. Will Antulay take daan and bless the people because that is the job of a brahmin.


 

The thing is these brahmins are classified, i had asked my brahmin friend and according to him not all are entitled to daan. Daan can only be taken b the karamkaand brahmins who do the puja paath stuff. Not all brahmins are in that category is what he says. 

Antulay had taken pride on his origins but he doesnt wish to become a brahmin so any of those rituals wouldnt come into picture


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## Randip Singh

AusDesi said:


> Same could be said about the Jats. They show off about their bravery when its kind of obvious that there are brave and cowardly in every community.



Indeed. Sorry if I offend, but I find Jats and Ramgarhia the biggest culprit in terms of showing off amongst Sikhs.


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## faujasingh

randip singh said:


> Indeed. Sorry if I offend, but I find Jats and Ramgarhia the biggest culprit in terms of showing off amongst Sikhs.


 
thats true they have their caste issues high above Sikhi. For them anyone else is much inferior. Jatt da puttar and gabru jatt and what not. The fact is to take pride is different than being arrogant about that identity which really is not being understood by them.


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## Archived_Member_19

and what about all the punjabi movies - indian as well as pakistani

Maula jatt
Vehshi Jatt
Jatt da gandasa
jatt punjab da
punjabi jatt
jatt da wair
jatt te zameen
jigar jatt da
Qurbani jatt di
jatt jeona morh
bhagat dhanna jatt
jaga daaku
:crazy:


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Huck_Finn said:


> and what about all the punjabi movies - indian as well as pakistani
> 
> Maula jatt
> Vehshi Jatt
> Jatt da gandasa
> jatt punjab da
> punjabi jatt
> jatt da wair
> jatt te zameen
> jigar jatt da
> Qurbani jatt di
> jatt jeona morh
> bhagat dhanna jatt
> jaga daaku
> :crazy:



imho..simple economics...

who would want to see a movie..suniar dee thorree, chamar dee juttee manja tarkahan da...rambi lohar dee....goha mazhbi da...khota ghumiar da !!

Why make a Movie on Dhanna the Jatt when we have Ravidass Ji, Kabir Ji..Namdev Ji..also.. ??

The Jatt sound good drama material..just like the Cowboy-Indian stuff Hollywood began with...no Hollywood made nay movies about the Chinaman laundry/railway workers..etc..UNTIL it became saleable..then we had so many Kung fu movies..and chinamen stars

Times are CHANGING...who can say we wont be seeing a movie..called Putt Chamaran de...in 2010...Jutee chmaaar dee...or even Manjeean trkhanna deean ?? I see a lot of posters on car back screens..PUTT Chamaaran de...Mundah trakhaanan Da...kurree ghumiarran dee !! Long ago it was BORING..everyone only had..PUTT Sardaran de..or Putt jattan de stickers..:star::star::star::star::star:


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## Randip Singh

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> imho..simple economics...
> 
> who would want to see a movie..suniar dee thorree, chamar dee juttee manja tarkahan da...rambi lohar dee....goha mazhbi da...khota ghumiar da !!
> 
> Why make a Movie on Dhanna the Jatt when we have Ravidass Ji, Kabir Ji..Namdev Ji..also.. ??
> 
> The Jatt sound good drama material..just like the Cowboy-Indian stuff Hollywood began with...no Hollywood made nay movies about the Chinaman laundry/railway workers..etc..UNTIL it became saleable..then we had so many Kung fu movies..and chinamen stars
> 
> Times are CHANGING...who can say we wont be seeing a movie..called Putt Chamaran de...in 2010...Jutee chmaaar dee...or even Manjeean trkhanna deean ?? I see a lot of posters on car back screens..PUTT Chamaaran de...Mundah trakhaanan Da...kurree ghumiarran dee !! Long ago it was BORING..everyone only had..PUTT Sardaran de..or Putt jattan de stickers..:star::star::star::star::star:



Sorry my stomach is hurting from laughing 

Maybe we should make such a film. See what the reaction is.


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## Archived_Member_19

i thought Daler Mehndi sang a song... Bhapa No 1....dunno if it's him or a fake one....the pictures are not in very good taste and my apologies...but this is just in ref to the discussion here

YouTube - No. 1 bhapa..bhape da rabb rakha

sounds like Daler...but dunno...might be a prank


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## AusDesi

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> imho..simple economics...
> 
> who would want to see a movie..suniar dee thorree, chamar dee juttee manja tarkahan da...rambi lohar dee....goha mazhbi da...khota ghumiar da !!
> 
> Why make a Movie on Dhanna the Jatt when we have Ravidass Ji, Kabir Ji..Namdev Ji..also.. ??
> 
> The Jatt sound good drama material..just like the Cowboy-Indian stuff Hollywood began with...no Hollywood made nay movies about the Chinaman laundry/railway workers..etc..UNTIL it became saleable..then we had so many Kung fu movies..and chinamen stars
> 
> Times are CHANGING...who can say we wont be seeing a movie..called Putt Chamaran de...in 2010...Jutee chmaaar dee...or even Manjeean trkhanna deean ?? I see a lot of posters on car back screens..PUTT Chamaaran de...Mundah trakhaanan Da...kurree ghumiarran dee !! Long ago it was BORING..everyone only had..PUTT Sardaran de..or Putt jattan de stickers..:star::star::star::star::star:



haha yes. it reminds me of a story my mate told me. His cousin had all his licence and papers checked because he had one simple line on his car "Je tussi Jatt, te Asi vi nahi Ghatt". Since the Punjab Police are mostly Jatt, they felt they had to check him up a bit.


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## AusDesi

Huck_Finn said:


> i thought Daler Mehndi sang a song... Bhapa No 1....dunno if it's him or a fake one....the pictures are not in very good taste and my apologies...but this is just in ref to the discussion here
> 
> YouTube - No. 1 bhapa..bhape da rabb rakha
> 
> sounds like Daler...but dunno...might be a prank



So is the language the difference between "Bhappe" and other sikhs?


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## AusDesi

faujasingh said:


> The thing is these brahmins are classified, i had asked my brahmin friend and according to him not all are entitled to daan. Daan can only be taken b the karamkaand brahmins who do the puja paath stuff. Not all brahmins are in that category is what he says.
> 
> Antulay had taken pride on his origins but he doesnt wish to become a brahmin so any of those rituals wouldnt come into picture



Your friend is right but thats not connected with Antulay. Origins is ok but you can only really call yourself 'brahmin' or 'rajput' or 'jatt' IF the marriages in your famil happen within that caste. Marriage is the main thing that keeps castecism alive. otherwise, you just have surname that was once connected with some caste.


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## faujasingh

AusDesi said:


> Your friend is right but thats not connected with Antulay. Origins is ok but you can only really call yourself 'brahmin' or 'rajput' or 'jatt' IF the marriages in your famil happen within that caste. Marriage is the main thing that keeps castecism alive. otherwise, you just have surname that was once connected with some caste.


 


I would really rejoice the day when such caste and class gets intermixed and we have some Shastri and Tirvedi partly dalits and brahmins. Similiarly with tarkhan and jatt the so called majhbi, and so on. Easier said than done !


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

AusDesi said:


> So is the language the difference between "Bhappe" and other sikhs?



I am a jatt and have mixed around with everyone else...i found the bhappas much more into SIKHEE - very few of them discard the dastaar and all.compared to the "Jatts" who are now about 80% monas...so it may be jealousy on the part of the Jatts..certainly the bhappas in this regions (SEA) talk the same as us....jatt, chimbeh, mazhbis, kamboj and the rest..whatever..we are all SIKHS and we meet in the Gurdawra..we talk the same language..
The Bhappa Gurdwaras are better run and managed..MUCH MUCH more Gurbani parchaar anyway..Jatts fight too much to take over and keep control of their Gurdawaras....bhappas on the other hand have their Grand Offices... own businesses/servants/factory workers etc.....so there is less "need" to sit in a Gurdwara Office and Lord it over the Granthi...!! a typical Jatt has to lord it on the Granthi because at home he is probabaly not even allowed to lord it over the wife/kids...so they FIGHT to the "DEATH" to remain Gurdawara Pardhaan sakatar etc..he he he


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

I visited the Bhapa page on Utube from which this video was taken...and saw that this is part of a vicious campaign to malign the bhappas..same screenshots in most of the videos..but the wordings are clearly casteist/racist and highly offensive.
Not funny at all...attempt to Divide and Rule...cause rifts among SIKHS based on caste..:}--}:


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## AusDesi

After watching that video i think i've seen mockery of the bhappe in the 'chacha chattar singh' videos.

YouTube - Bhaape Sikh marry with...??? find out 

YouTube - Jaswinder Bhalla vs. Guggi's [FUNNY]


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## Randip Singh

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> I visited the Bhapa page on Utube from which this video was taken...and saw that this is part of a vicious campaign to malign the bhappas..same screenshots in most of the videos..but the wordings are clearly casteist/racist and highly offensive.
> Not funny at all...attempt to Divide and Rule...cause rifts among SIKHS based on caste..:}--}:


 
Are Bhappa's Khatri?

If they are Khatri then would not Guru's be classed Bhappa too?

Are they not maligning our Guru's?

My impression is they are trying to malign the Sikh saroop generally.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

randip singh said:


> Are Bhappa's Khatri?
> 
> If they are Khatri then would not Guru's be classed Bhappa too?
> 
> Are they not maligning our Guru's?
> 
> My impression is they are trying to malign the Sikh saroop generally.



Randip Ji..you....Hit the nail square on its head...
This is NOT a Random thing..imho its a consistent and planned attack on SikhI Sroop by targetting the bhappas..Jattas are already targetted thru the "films" which show them in very bad light..always fighting, murdering over a piece fo land, raping pillaging and using very bad langauage and drinking womansiing..etc EACH and EVERY so called Jatt film is like this Vulgar and Rowdy. So next villify the Bhappas ( and YES our Guurs were all Bhappas as they were Khatrees) so two birds with one stone...are being killed thru these videos..


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## AusDesi

So I guessed right. Bhappas are Pakistani sikhs or sikhs who lived in Western Punjab. We have Khatri sikhs in Faridabad. They speak multani as their mother tongue. Even in their gurudwaras the songs etc are in multani unless they are taken straight from SGGS. 

However, in all my life i don't remember calling them Bhappe or anything like that.


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## Randip Singh

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Randip Ji..you....Hit the nail square on its head...
> This is NOT a Random thing..imho its a consistent and planned attack on SikhI Sroop by targetting the bhappas..Jattas are already targetted thru the "films" which show them in very bad light..always fighting, murdering over a piece fo land, raping pillaging and using very bad langauage and drinking womansiing..etc EACH and EVERY so called Jatt film is like this Vulgar and Rowdy. So next villify the Bhappas ( and YES our Guurs were all Bhappas as they were Khatrees) so two birds with one stone...are being killed thru these videos..


 
I get it now.

The virtues of a Sikh i.e. Sant siphahi are being attacked.

Sant - Bhappa/urban are attacked because they empitomise intelligence in Sikhi. 

Siphahi - Jatt/rural are attacked because they represent honesty and bravery in Sikhi.

Attack the stereo types and destroy Sikhi.

this IS sinister.


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## jasi

SS AKAL to all .

 It is amazing many members jumped on their research to find about which  cast Rana belongs to. Also some one is curious to know if his cast Rana  is superior than the others

Most of these people keep on adapting new cast names than previously  held by their for fathers simply  to improve their social images  to  emerge in society to have easy going social status..

Is there any high class . Yes it all depends on one's personal deeds.Man is know for his deeds not by birth in higher class.

To be called Sikh one must get rid of cast system and follow fundamenatl  foundations laid by Guru Nanak Dev ji and Guru Gobind Singh ji who  created 5 Piare who were all from lowers cast .

Not a single so called higher cast people came forward to Guru Gobnidh  Singh Ji's call to have one head to sacrifice stayed under the the tent  but ran away like a cowered who are making much more noises of their  high cast in today's society.

Man is known by his deeds not by birth. 

Obviously if one believe in cast system is not respecting  Sikh beliefs and teaching of  of  Guru Nanak Dev Ji who out right denounced cast system as HIS first step.

I appreciate if all members to post their comments to create more awareness of our beliefs.

Jaspi


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## spnadmin

jaspi ji

This is exactly what we should take to our hears. 





> Man is known by his deeds not by birth.
> 
> Obviously if one believe in cast system is not respecting Sikh beliefs and teaching of of Guru Nanak Dev Ji who out right denounced cast system as HIS first step.
> 
> I appreciate if all members to post their comments to create more awareness of our beliefs.



But there is one problem, and it is not a small problem. Even though Sikhs should renounce, even though Guru Nanak renounced, caste --  what do we see. The media, aided and abetted by unfriendly factions of society, continue to promote caste labels for Sikhs. And they do it to undermine Sikhi. How does one put a stop to that? I am sure it can be done, however, these are prejudices that run wide and deep through society.


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## jasi

*SS AKAL JI.

Remember the old saying :

"Mend yourself than mending the whole world"

Out of 5 habits are clearly stated in our Gurbani that

PROHIBITIVE FIVE habits to be controlled up to normal proportions is strongly taught in Sikhism by tools of NAM JAPNA and reading Gurbani to control such habits.:
*
*Greed,Ego,Anger, Attachments,Money are 5 habits has to be in control proportionally.*

*But today Greed .Anger,Ego has become a pride to have . Even all these Baba's are full of anger when they are offended with certain criticism by the society of their actions to gain money and self recognitions with different titles .

The cancer has to be treated at grass roots level.
the solutions are to create more awareness and stop mending the world but mend oneself philosophy.
*
*There are individual who are using stage of religious teaching in thier own styles causing more divisions which are all supported by political leaders to get massive vote from each rich Babas.

Evil is never been evolved to any good results but getting worst by passing ever day.The tragedy is we  even realize that we are going down in breaking families,children are running away from our practices of following fundamental teachings of Guru Sahib but strongly became slaves of EGO,ANGER,GREED and follow the same rat race to follow  these power hungry BABA'S who are leading the society.But if they are offended by some one .serious consequences are applied by their protective agents. 

Humbleness is flown out of our lives ,criticism and comparison in individual life is measured by status of richness.

We wish that if Baba Guru Nanak Dev Ji make a another visit to this world.
Jaspi
*




spnadmin said:


> jaspi ji
> 
> This is exactly what we should take to our hears.
> 
> But there is one problem, and it is not a small problem. Even though Sikhs should renounce, even though Guru Nanak renounced, caste --  what do we see. The media, aided and abetted by unfriendly factions of society, continue to promote caste labels for Sikhs. And they do it to undermine Sikhi. How does one put a stop to that? I am sure it can be done, however, these are prejudices that run wide and deep through society.


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## Randip Singh

dalsingh said:


> I have met Ranas who are both Muslims (Pakistani) and Sikhs in London. The Sikhs who have the name claim to be Jats, whilst the Muslims claim to be from a Rajput background. They are both likely to have the same antecedants.
> 
> I have a theory which may explain. I know Randip Singh on the forumdoesn't share my views on this btw. lol
> 
> If you look at some early Sikh and Persian sources, they highlight serious conflict between Khalsa Sikhs and Rajput princes/warriors. This is mentioned in Bachitar Natak. It is also recorded that Rajputs resisted Khalsa innovations and remain aloof from them, considering the Khalsa a generally low caste rabble.
> 
> Historical processes (i.e. the Sikh revolution) in the 18th century turned things on their head. So some Rajputs converted to Sikhi, some to Islam and some remained Hindu. Within the Muslim community Jats are held in low esteem in comparison to Sikh Panjab. Hence Muslim Rajputs retained their former label, however within Sikh Panjab, I believe that Rajputs changed their identity to Jats, because this had a higher status in that community.
> 
> In London I have met many Pakistani Ranas, Bhattis and Rathors all of whom described themselves as being of Rajput ancestory. As you may know these surnames (gotras) are also very common amongst Sikhs but every Sikh I have encountered with the same surnames so far, have described themselves as being of Jat ancestory. I think the status hypothesis may explain this.
> 
> That being said, some clan names are strange in that they cross so called "castes" (which I think is the bane of SIkhs for the record). So you can meet "Maan" Jats and occasionally Tarkhan ones. Gills can also be Chumar or Jat. I'm not sure of Gyani Jis point because the Gill Chumars I have met do not try and hide their caste and present themselves as Jat. Similarly you can meet "Virdee" Tarkhans as well as "Virdee" Chumars.
> 
> As I am getting older I am seeing that the so called rigid caste system has many holes and is not simply explainable as some linear development of separate communities.  There is a lot more to it than this. Castes labels have probably not been as stable as made out by some.



Not that I disagree, just that their is no evidence for it. I have met Rajput Sikhs in Punjab that maintain their Rajput identity very strongly. Here is an extreme example:



> 3 held for killing youth
> Main suspect being shielded: widow
> Varinder Singh
> Tribune News Service
> 
> Hoshiarpur, November 27
> The Hoshiarpur police has arrested three of the four persons suspected of hacking Jasbir Singh to death with swords on Tuesday at Jahankhelan village bus stand for marrying a girl from another caste.
> 
> Meanwhile, business establishments in the main bazaar of Jahankhelan village were opened today.
> 
> The Hoshiarpur police today arrested the suspects Naresh Kumar, alias Jagga, son of Sukhchain Singh, Subhash Chand Bagga and Daljit Singh Jeeta, sons of Daya Ram from the Jamun Wala Choe here today. Parbhat Singh, Pappi, the main accusedaccording to Geeta, the wife of Jasbir Singh, was however, still at large.
> 
> Mr Lok Nath, SSP, said the suspects had been absconding since Tuesday morning. During the preliminary interrogation the three persons confessed to their involvement in the crime. The motive behind the crime was the marriage of the deceased with Geeta in a court and this love marriage was not acceptable to Geeta’s relatives, said Mr Lok Nath. He said the complainant, Geeta, had been provided with a security cover and the SHO (Sadar) and the DSO (Rural) had been visiting the family after the crime took place in order to instill a sense of security among the family members. Police parties are also patrolling the area,said Mr Lok Nath, adding that all efforts would be made to nab the fourth accused.
> 
> On the other hand, while admitting that adequate security has been provided to her by the police, Geeta wife of the deceased, today alleged that some police officials and a prominent politician from the village were trying to shield the main accused, Prabhat Singh, who was still at large.
> 
> A police official from our village and a political person, who had instigated the youth of our Rajput community against Jasbir after our marriage, are behind the surrender of the three accused as they want Parbhat Pappi to go scott free. I have come to know that they had even offered Rs 50,000 to some youth for killing Jasbir, who according to them had humiliated their whole community by marrying a Rajput girl, alleged Geeta. She said it was Pappi, who had chopped off Jasbir’s arm before killing him in cold blood and it was he who had thrown it in front of house of Jasbirs aunt Kapoor Kaur before fleeing from the scene of crime along with others.
> 
> The SP, Mr Opinderjit Singh Ghumman, said further investigation was on and hoped that the police would recover arms allegedly used by the suspects soon.
> 
> 
> HOSHIARPUR: Four persons belonging to the Rajput community brutally murdered 22-year-old Jasbir Singh of the Jat community for marrying a Rajput girl at Jahankhelan village about 7 km from here.
> 
> Jasbir Singh and Geeta had got married two months back at Chandigarh in the high court, as Geeta's maternal grandparents and relatives were against this marriage.
> 
> The four accused -Daljit Singh, Subash Singh, Prabhat Singh and Naresh Kumar - attacked Jasbir with swords and killed him, as he was about to board a bus at about 9 am from the Jahankhelan bus stop.
> 
> According to reports, the accused took a severed shoulder of Jasbir Singh and threw it in the compound of the deceased's house.
> 
> The Sadar police have registered a case but no arrest has been made so far.




A tragic case of a Jat boy being murdered by Rajputs for loving a Rajput girl.


Rajputs do not hold Jats in high regard even in Punjab I'm afraid.

There is definitely a link between Jats and Rajputs, but I don't think it's a very flattering one.


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## Randip Singh

Saying the above however, there are many cases of where Rajputs have married Jats, Tarkhans, Kumahrs etc.

Amongst the Ramgarhias for example are the Bagrians who are decended from Bhai Roop Chand ji are definitely originally Rajputs who intermarried into Ramgarhias.

http://www.sikh-heritage.co.uk/personalities/Bhai Roop chand/BRcj.htm


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## simran soni

even i also want to kw rana caste com under jatt or rajput


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## spnadmin

Rana is not a caste but a clan or tribal name. If you go back to the beginning of this thread and read forward you will read a lot of fascinating information on the topic of the Rana surname

Rana (Hindi, Urdu: رانا) is a family name, originally a Hindu ancestry now found in all religions such as Islam, Sikhism, Buddhism etc. Rana is a surname used by the Gurjars, Rajputs and a very few Jatts of India, Pakistan and Nepal. Most of the Ranas reside in Northern states like Rajasthan, Haryana, Himachal Pradesh and Punjab.

Many Ranas in western Punjab region converted to Islam and they primarily reside in Punjab, Pakistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rana_(clan)

My note: Among Punjabi Sikhs (only) The surname Rana is a name which is associated with the Kalal subcaste, a subcaste of artisans. In Nepal, the name Rana is associated with princely famlies.


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## gani

how can intermingling change a caste of whole family? bhai roop chand ji was rajput jat and marrying other caste change his caste..


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## swarn bains

Rana is 100 percent rajput casre


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