# Sulhi Paath



## Taranjeet singh (Nov 19, 2011)

I am posting the 'Shabad' for a specific query. I am told by my wife that following ‘shahabd’ is also to be recited as a prayer to keep away the evil spirits. I am not aware of this and would like comments of learned members on this. It is called as –'sulhi-paath'. and appears on ang 825.[;Seems to be controversial to me and have formed no opinion on this as yet and do not do it as a Paath.] 




> ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
> Bilāval mėhlā 5.
> Bilaaval, Fifth Mehl:
> 
> ...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Nov 19, 2011)

*Re: Sulhi...Paath*

This relates to a historical incident in Guru jis life....SK was coming to kill/capture Guru ji when his horse bolted straight into a Brickklin...and he was burnt to death.
2. Notice that THIS DOESNT mean that  we cna assume then Guru Ji never died...becasue Jehangir Chandu etc were NOT "destroyed" like SK !!
IT simply declares and affirms GURU Jis assertion that EVERY ACTION is HIS HUKM...bad and the Good BOTH come form HIM.....SK wanted to kill Guur Ji..he was burnt alive...BUT same didnt happen to jehangir and Chandu...neither did Aurengzeb get burnt etc etc..
Concluison" This is MANMATT to take Gurbani as  a Mantar....to chase away evil spirits or invite good spirits......NEITHER ..GURBANI is to Accept HIS HUKM in each action.PERIOD.


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## bscheema (Nov 19, 2011)

*Re: Sulhi...Paath*

yes , Gurbani is not a manttar ..... gurbani is  guidelines ,a guidance by guru ji's.....


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Nov 19, 2011)

*Re: Sulhi...Paath*



> I am told by my wife that following ‘shahabd’ is also to be recited as a prayer to keep away the evil spirits


 
Veer Ji the only way to be sure is to try and use it against the one who suggested it,let me know if it works and I will try it against mine!


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## Taranjeet singh (Nov 19, 2011)

*Re: Sulhi...Paath*

Spji Veer ji ..I am only half year old in marriage yet. Let me enjoy myself for some time.
I shall try it after ,say, five six years and then let you know the consequences.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Nov 20, 2011)

*Re: Sulhi...Paath*

LOL.5 years is also a short time..sikhs are for life..dhan pir uh na khyeahn  behenn ikhetheh hoi....ONE IN SPIRIT is the way to go....i am sure sp is just joking..his better half must be good....ha ha


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Nov 20, 2011)

*Re: Sulhi...Paath*



> I shall try it after ,say, five six years and then let you know the consequences.


 
Don't worry about the consequences I'm fifteen years married ,my wife usually says that we are married for seven life times,God Help Us!

Gyani is right I was just joking she does not have an evil spirit but sometimes when I was first married because she has eyes like a cat she used to scare me a bit in the dark.


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 13, 2013)

*Re: Sulhi...Paath*



Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> This relates to a historical incident in Guru jis life....SK was coming to kill/capture Guru ji when his horse bolted straight into a Brickklin...and he was burnt to death.
> 2. Notice that THIS DOESNT mean that  we cna assume then Guru Ji never died...becasue Jehangir Chandu etc were NOT "destroyed" like SK !!
> IT simply declares and affirms GURU Jis assertion that EVERY ACTION is HIS HUKM...bad and the Good BOTH come form HIM.....SK wanted to kill Guru Ji..he was burnt alive...BUT same didnt happen to jehangir and Chandu...neither did Aurengzeb get burnt etc etc..
> Concluison" This is MANMATT to take Gurbani as  a Mantar....to chase away evil spirits or invite good spirits......NEITHER ..GURBANI is to Accept HIS HUKM in each action.PERIOD.


Gyani Ji

My apologies! I feel this sabd is not related to historical incident but is referring to 'sooli of haumai'. 

sahni 
mohinder


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## aristotle (Sep 13, 2013)

*Re: Sulhi...Paath*



japjisahib04 said:


> Gyani Ji
> 
> My apologies! I feel this sabd is not related to historical incident but is referring to 'sooli of haumai'.
> 
> ...



japjisahib04 Ji,
The word 'ਸੁਲਹੀ' used in this Shabad is clearly a masculine noun as is clear by the use of 'ਹੂਆ', 'ਹੋਇ ਗਇਆ', 'ਪਚਿਆ', 'ਛੋਡਿ ਗਇਆ' for it,


> ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
> *ਸੁਲਹੀ *ਤੇ ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ਰਾਖੁ ॥
> *ਸੁਲਹੀ* ਕਾ ਹਾਥੁ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਪਹੁਚੈ ਸੁਲਹੀ ਹੋਇ *ਮੂਆ* ਨਾਪਾਕੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
> ਕਾਢਿ ਕੁਠਾਰੁ ਖਸਮਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਕਾਟਿਆ ਖਿਨ ਮਹਿ *ਹੋਇ ਗਇਆ* ਹੈ ਖਾਕੁ ॥
> ...



You on the other hand alternatively suggest the translation of ਸੁਲਹੀ as ਹਉਮੈ ਦੀ ਸੂਲੀ. The word ਸੂਲੀ or its derivatives are feminine in nature, except when used as ਸੂਲ which for sure has not been used in this case.

As we can see in this case, the translation of this word as suggested by you does not stand the test of linguistics.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 13, 2013)

*Re: Sulhi...Paath*

I agree with Aristotle jis views here. Sulhi Khan exists in History of Guru Arjun Ji and he was sent to capture Guru ji just as a few other Khans were s ent to capture Guru gobind Singh ji..and also Guru hargobind Sahib Ji...History is History.


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 13, 2013)

*Re: Sulhi...Paath*



aristotle said:


> japjisahib04 Ji,
> The word 'ਸੁਲਹੀ' used in this Shabad is clearly a masculine noun as is clear by the use of 'ਹੂਆ', 'ਹੋਇ ਗਇਆ', 'ਪਚਿਆ', 'ਛੋਡਿ ਗਇਆ' for it,
> 
> 
> ...


Aristotle Jee

With due apologies, I feel when gurbani says, 'ਲੋਗੁ ਜਾਨੈ ਇਹੁ ਗੀਤੁ ਹੈ ਇਹੁ ਤਉ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬੀਚਾਰ ॥  Thus in Brahm Gian it has to be Chetan identity and not any muslim ruler to refer. Why gurbani is called satguru because it diagnosis the symptom of common disease i.e. ego to heal us? As gurbani says, 'ਕਰੈ ਗੁਮਾਨੁ ਚੁਭਹਿ ਤਿਸੁ ਸੂਲਾ ਕੋ ਕਾਢਨ ਕਉ ਨਾਹੀ ॥ let us know what is 'sula' in this pankti - in ancient time while punishing for longest and cruel sufferings a metal rod with sharp groves used to be inserted into the body of that person from bottom to the head and then gradually twisted to cut each nerves one by one -how cruel punishment that used to be and it is used to be called sooli tai charna.  Accordingly when our thought process does not match with our inmats, guru sahib calls this state of mind like consigning into 8.4 lacs juenes, it is also equal to sooli tai charna. In simple language, 'ਸਾਕਤ ਹਰਿ ਰਸ ਸਾਦੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਕੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥ ਜਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਚਲਹਿ ਚੁਭੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਜਮਕਾਲੁ ਸਹਹਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਡੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥੨॥ my demons thoughts in devil workshop cuts me into pieces. 

Akal purkah is weperwah - it does not interfere, therefore when guru sahib says, 'ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ਰਾਖੁ ॥ it does not mean that God saved his life from sulhi khan but as per my understanding the God living inside wants to fahsion new creation within me - one creation I got under laws of nature -ਜੈਸੇ ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਬਿਨੁ ਬਾਲੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥  i.e. my physical body - 'ਰਕਤੁ ਬਿੰਦੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਕਰੇ ॥ though in that body all organs are functioning as per laws of nature but that body has been captured by, 'ਉਪਰਿ ਆਇ ਬੈਠੇ ਕੂੜਿਆਰ ॥ - my manh - the devil workshop and guru sahib when says, ' ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ਰਾਖੁ ॥ is referring to second creation i.e. divine wisdom to protect me from garbage thinking and this second creation is labelled as, ' ਦੁਰਲਭ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹ '

Aristotle Jee,  tell me is their any place more pious/blessing than Darbar Sahib where almost 24 hours kirtan of Akal Purakh is sung and in good bhavna. I remember one of the famous hindu bhagwan Dayanad said if this murti cannot protect itself from the mices then how could it protect me. In 1984 when General Brar invaded and humiliated the sanctity of Akal Takhat where was this Akal Purakh. When Indian and foreign TV were showing how defeated Tohra, Langowal and other bearded and turban wearing sardar with their hands up were taken outside Punjab and beaten up and jailed (like in kaala paani) in their own country and by their own army where was Akal Purakh. Even after 28 years General Brar spits and humilates and dare to call us terrorist where is God to shut his mouth.

Rest tommorrow upon your response as I am getting calls from downstairs for lunch.

best regards
sahni


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## aristotle (Sep 13, 2013)

*Re: Sulhi...Paath*

@japjisahib04 Ji,
What you are talking here is in the general sense of Gurbani and I stand with you on that. But, you have completely ignored my argument, and I think that was a valid point I made. 
We should interpret this Shabad on the basis of what is 'actually written' in it, rather than according to what we think it is. Modifying the meanings at our convenience and ignoring grammatical rules would be doing a great disservice to the spirit of Gurbani.



> Aristotle Jee, tell me is their any place more pious/
> blessing than Darbar Sahib where almost 24 hours
> kirtan of Akal Purakh is sung and in good bhavna. I
> remember one of the famous hindu bhagwan Dayanad
> ...


I pray you to stick to our discussion. I wonder why you posted this thing when it isn't even remotely connected to the matter at hand.


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 13, 2013)

My apologies once again. My wife was calling for lunch and I had to rush. Further reason of quoting was that if God saved guru ji from sulhi khan then why didn't save His own abode from monsters. 

Now coming back to your point, 'The word 'ਸੁਲਹੀ' used in this Shabad is clearly a masculine noun as is clear by the use of 'ਹੂਆ', 'ਹੋਇ ਗਇਆ', 'ਪਚਿਆ', 'ਛੋਡਿ ਗਇਆ' for it'. Yes I agree in this shabd word  'ਸੁਲਹੀ'  is clearly masculine noun but it is addressed as a first person to myself - my egoistic manh and through this sabd guru sahib is realizing me the pains of sulan, thorns due to my thought process and says. I was born as 'paak -pious but have become 'naapak - unpious. It does not mean that guru sahib had become naapak - that was the height of humility that he used to apply each avgun on him but it was for us to learn. 

best regards
sahni


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## aristotle (Sep 14, 2013)

japjisahib04 said:


> Further reason of quoting was that if God saved guru ji from sulhi khan then why didn't save His own abode from monsters.


japjisahib04Ji,
This Shabad is not of hate towards an individual. As you can see, no single negative word is directed at Sulhi Khan. This instead, is a Shabad of thanksgiving, of faith towards the unsurmountable Lord and of Charhdikala even in the face of extreme dangers. Your mention of Operation Bluestar, I must say again, does not serve any purpose.



> Yes I agree in this shabd word  'ਸੁਲਹੀ'  is clearly masculine noun but it is addressed as a first person to myself - my egoistic manh and through this sabd guru sahib is realizing me the pains of sulan, thorns due to my thought process and says. I was born as 'paak -pious but have become 'naapak - unpious. It does not mean that guru sahib had become naapak - that was the height of humility that he used to apply each avgun on him but it was for us to learn.
> 
> best regards
> sahni



I have always admired your ability to visualise the big picture in every discussion that transpires. But somewhere down the line, we have to accept that the best guide to the Shabad is the Shabad itself. The grammatical problems in your proposed translation are simply too major to be ignored. A feminine noun when addressed in first person remains true to its gender according to Punjabi grammar, it cannot mutate into a masculine noun. Secondly, The word 'Sulhi' does not even occur in first person here. Ignoring Gurbani grammar is not a very wise thing to do. Period.


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 14, 2013)

aristotle said:


> japjisahib04Ji,
> This Shabad is not of hate towards an individual. As you can see, no single negative word is directed at Sulhi Khan. This instead, is a Shabad of thanksgiving, of faith towards the unsurmountable Lord and of Charhdikala even in the face of extreme dangers. Your mention of Operation Bluestar, I must say again, does not serve any purpose.
> 
> I have always admired your ability to visualise the big picture in every discussion that transpires. But somewhere down the line, we have to accept that the best guide to the Shabad is the Shabad itself. The grammatical problems in your proposed translation are simply too major to be ignored. A feminine noun when addressed in first person remains true to its gender according to Punjabi grammar, it cannot mutate into a masculine noun. Secondly, The word 'Sulhi' does not even occur in first person here. Ignoring Gurbani grammar is not a very wise thing to do. Period.



Let us agree to disagree. Only thing I wanted to add that almost all the six thousands shabds contained in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji for me are of chardhikala, though someone has picked up some sabds from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and prepared a 'Path da gutka' and named it as dukhbhanjani sahib. This way giving importance to certain sabd while ignoring other is total descrimination, but we cannot stop anyone. For me all the six thousands sabd of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji highlights upon my deficiencies in a positive manner and is all about myself as a first person to be truthful and not for others. Unlike the general belief that most the sabds are just repeat, a close look shall reveal, Guru sahib through six thousand different concepts tried to explain us how to be sachiar but as Bhagat Kabir Ji regretfully says, 'ਚਚਾ ਰਚਿਤ ਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਭਾਰੀ ॥ ਤਜਿ ਚਿਤ੍ਰੈ ਚੇਤਹੁ ਚਿਤਕਾਰੀ ॥ ਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਇਹੈ ਅਵਝੇਰਾ ॥ ਤਜਿ ਚਿਤ੍ਰੈ ਚਿਤੁ ਰਾਖਿ ਚਿਤੇਰਾ ॥੧੨॥ God has painted the greatest picture of the world with various colors which are used a metaphore, but these wondrous creations have now become the cause of concern, as mankind is emotionally attached with them and have diverted to worship the pictures of His creations rather than practically living truthfully.” - Guru Granth ang.340.15. 

For me, in this sabd 'sulhi' stands devil workshop. And once it is overpowered/transformed by divine then ,'ਸੁਲਹੀ ਕਾ ਹਾਥੁ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਪਹੁਚੈ then this devil workshop cannot reach or pollute the thought process again. Like we have sabd from Kabir jee, ' ਕਬੀਰ ਮਾਨਸ ਜਨਮੁ ਦੁਲੰਭੁ ਹੈ ਹੋਇ ਨ ਬਾਰੈ ਬਾਰ ॥ - once transformed by divine then it enters into eternal bliss which is the real mission of human.

Had a nice discussion with you, 

best regards
sahni


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## spnadmin (Sep 14, 2013)

Reposting the shabad so we don't lose the context of the words under discussion



> ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
> Bilāval mėhlā 5.
> Bilaaval, Fifth Mehl:
> 
> ...



When all is said and done, acceptance of hukam is a cure for haumei. However, the shabad is about hukam. The story of Sulhi Khan, henchman and revenue officer, is an actual historical event about a real person;  and its weight as such should not be discounted. If Guruji makes mention of it, it affirms the oral tradition of a Guru's life. It is not unusual for a Guru to pause in a raag to relate a story from personal experience, and then from that draw a spiritual lesson. This is one of those times. Guru Arjan Dev is stopping in the middle of the song, and asking us to consider the lesson learned from the story of Sulhi Khan. The lesson is that, for inexplicable reasons, and in unforeseen moments, things happen, that alter the course of our lives. So it happened for Guru Arjan Dev... And so it happened to Sulhi Khan, in most bewildering circumstances. Moreover, even an emperor's schemes did not work and nothing is left of him or his lifetime of plotting. In view of this chain of events, all one can do is make a sacrifice of one's own self to parabh (which deserves a better translation than 'God' because it means the ever-present power of divinity which arranges all affairs.)

This shabad is situated between two other thoughts. It has a context in the bigger raag. By just looking at the verse that closes the shabad just before it 



> ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪੂਰਨ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਦਾਤੇ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਜਸੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸ ਕਹੇ ॥੨॥੧੭॥੧੦੩॥
> Kar kirpā pūran parabẖ ḏāṯe nirmal jas Nānak ḏās kahe. ||2||17||103||
> Be merciful, O Perfect God, Great Giver, that slave Nanak may chant Your immaculate Praises. ||2||17||103||



and the verse that begins the shabad to follow 



> ਪੂਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਪੂਰੀ ਸੇਵ ॥
> Pūre gur kī pūrī sev.
> Perfect is service to the Perfect Guru.
> 
> ...



We can see what is gained by pausing to hear a little story of Sulhi Khan. We are totally dependent on the mercy of the parabh who is nirmal (I take this to mean not just pure, but without bias, without judgement, without any idea of paybacks, simply nirmal, it is what it is). Gurdev in his wisdom (for he, su-ami, is complete wisdom) has resolved everything. 'He saved me from Sulhi Khan.' Unblemished he deserves unblemished service (devotion). 

p/s Is there a better translation for this jin jan kā kīno pūran vāk?

So no, not about casting a spell, but about doing some heavy reflection on relationship with parabraham.


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## aristotle (Sep 14, 2013)

> p/s Is there a better translation for this jin jan kā kīno pūran vāk?


Prof. Sahib Singh translates ਜਨ ਕਾ ਵਾਕੁ as ਸੇਵਕ ਦੀ ਅਰਦਾਸ(Prayer/ Ardas of the servant), which IMO will be more appropriate here, using which '_Kaho Nānak ṯis parabẖ balihārī jin jan kā kīno pūran vāk_' can be interpreted as,



> Says Nanak, I am a sacrifice to God, who has taken heed to the prayer of His servant (,and protected the servant from the atrocities of Sulhi Khan and the events that so transpired)


instead of


> Says Nanak, I am a sacrifice to God, who fulfilled the word of His slave.


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## spnadmin (Sep 14, 2013)

Thanks. That sounds more fitting.


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 15, 2013)

spnadmin said:


> p/s Is there a better translation for this jin jan kā kīno pūran vāk?
> 
> So no, not about casting a spell, but about doing some heavy reflection on relationship with parabraham.


 Spnadmin jee 
First I should know what was the vaak of my guru which was accomplished, whether to get rid from the suffering of vicious vikar and how to be truthful or by keeping grudge to glorify punishment to sulhi khan and his family members who had no faults of theirs in that plotting and conspiring. So the moments I realized the symptoms of sufferings I approach to my satguru. Gurbani narrates the vaak like this, 'ਪ੍ਰਥਮੇ ਮਤਾ ਜਿ ਪਤ੍ਰੀ ਚਲਾਵਉ ॥ when I approached my satuguru and explained symptoms of my sufferings to diagnoise, first thing he writes me the prescription ਦੁਤੀਏ ਮਤਾ ਦੁਇ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਪਹੁਚਾਵਉ ॥ he takes my manh to consiousness to see the logic and be discriminatory intellect ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਏ ਮਤਾ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਰਉ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ takes effort and avoid which over reacts ਮੈ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੁਹੀ ਧਿਆਇਆ ॥੧॥ I totally surrender my matt and adopted divine wisdom. Similarly 'ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ does not mean I sacrifice but it is bal+hari or I am surrending my matt to adopt your divine message which paved the way for unity.

Finally the context of the sabd is not hukam as per my understanding

best regards
sahni


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## spnadmin (Sep 15, 2013)

japjisahib04 said:


> Spnadmin jee
> First I should know what was the vaak of my guru which was accomplished, whether to get rid from the suffering of vicious vikar and how to be truthful or by keeping grudge to glorify punishment to sulhi khan and his family members who had no faults of theirs in that plotting and conspiring. So the moments I realized the symptoms of sufferings I approach to my satguru. Gurbani narrates the vaak like this, 'ਪ੍ਰਥਮੇ ਮਤਾ ਜਿ ਪਤ੍ਰੀ ਚਲਾਵਉ ॥ when I approached my satuguru and explained symptoms of my sufferings to diagnoise, first thing he writes me the prescription ਦੁਤੀਏ ਮਤਾ ਦੁਇ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਪਹੁਚਾਵਉ ॥ he takes my manh to consiousness to see the logic and be discriminatory ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਏ ਮਤਾ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਰਉ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ takes effort and avoid which over reacts ਮੈ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੁਹੀ ਧਿਆਇਆ ॥੧॥ I totally surrender my matt and adopted divine wisdom. Similarly 'ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ does not mean I sacrifice but it is bal+hari or I am surrending my matt to adopt your divine message which paved the way for unity.
> 
> Finally the context of the sabd is not hukam as per my understanding
> ...



sahni j

I agree that Guru Arjan Dev would never harbour a message of punishment toward the family of Sulhi Khan, nor even to Khan himself, nor to Chand who was part of the treachery and whose scheming led the horse  of Sulhi Khan to bolt into the oven which roasted his master, nor even to the emperor whose scheme Sulhi Khan had gone to carry out. We look at the shabad and the subject of revenge never comes up to begin with. Nor did I bring it up.

And I also agree that making a sacrifice - balhari - remains surrendering one's matt to the Guru.  And, to surrender one's plots and plans and the clever pursuit of evil is to surrender one's matt.

But all that considered, when one truly comes to terms with your very words 





> I am surrending my matt to adopt your divine message which paved the way for unity


 then one has come to terms with hukam. 

So I stick by my guns on this point. All the plotting and planning of evil did not succeed, but led to destruction and disgrace. The One who created him (the emperor, you, me or anyone) gave him a push. On the other side, when I am the perfect 'slave' my ardaas is heard and answered. The context in which some choose to plot evil and are destroyed, yet others find bliss who chose to be slaves of the Guru, depends on who sees the truth of hukam and who does not.

I can't say more because I have reached the limit of my understanding of this shabad. Forgive me.


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## aristotle (Sep 15, 2013)

> the context of the sabd is not hukam as per my understanding


japjisahib04 Ji,
Perhaps you have already made up your mind not to see the point in the translations that already exist. The translation of another Shabad you have quoted' 'ਪ੍ਰਥਮੇ ਮਤਾ ਜਿ ਪਤ੍ਰੀ ਚਲਾਵਉ ॥.....' is grammatically incorrect too IMO but I wont go into that discussion because this time the discussion should be solely based on the Shabad at hand, why you have chosen to quote another Shabad is beyond my unintelligent comprehension.

In the whole Shabad, Guru Arjan Sahib does not use a single negative epithet against Sulhi Khan, he instead narrates the events as they were. Guru Sahib does not boast of casting an evil spell or performing some miracle against the forces of Sulhi Khan, the Shabad culminates instead with the Akal Purakh heeding to the prayers of His servant. Obviously the whole Shabad carries the spirit of_ hukam_, accepting the will of God even if it goes against you; and _Ardas_, supplication before the Lord in times of negativity.
The Shabad in my view  is a beautiful example of practising these virtues in one's life.



> First I should know what was the vaak of my guru which was accomplished, whether to get rid from the suffering of vicious vikar and how to be truthful *or by keeping grudge to glorify punishment* to sulhi khan *and his family members who had no faults of theirs* in that plotting and conspiring.


* I think we have already been there in this discussion. We can only judge Guru Arjan Sahib to have held a grudge against Sulhi Khan, if he would have mentioned so in this Shabad, which he did not.

* Secondly, the Shabad does not 'glorify' punishment. In fact, it wasn't even punishment in the real sense of the word. Sulhi Khan failed in the nefarious designs he himself had planned, and suffered from, what we would call in the modern times, a mechanical accident. Guru Sahib just offers thanksgiving to the Lord for having saved him and heeding to his prayers.

* Thirdly, nowhere in the Shabad are the friends or family of Sulhi Khan held 'guilty'. In fact the only tuk where they are mentioned is,


> ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਮੀਤ ਧਨੁ ਕਿਛੂ ਨ ਰਹਿਓ ਸੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਗਇਆ ਸਭ ਭਾਈ ਸਾਕੁ ॥
> Of his sons, friends and wealth, nothing remains; he departed, leaving behind all his brothers and relatives.


I cannot see that they are held guilty.
The English translation says _'Of his sons, friends and wealth, nothing remains'_.....why?......because Sulhi no longer enjoys their kinship in his death, he succumbed to his own evil designs, no family member was there to help him.
Of what you claim, the meaning is quite the reverse. Even in this Shabad Guru Arjan Sahib has managed to give us a valuable lesson that an individual himself is responsible for his/her own actions, and no amount of wealthy and powerful kinship can help one in his death. Sulhi, the general, with loads of wealth and armour, had to die. So shall I, and so shall everyone else. Doesn't this make the concept of _hukam_ ever more relevant?

:animatedkhanda1:


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 15, 2013)

spnadmin said:


> So I stick by my guns on this point. All the plotting and planning of evil did not succeed, but led to destruction and disgrace. The One who created him (the emperor, you, me or anyone) gave him a push. On the other side, when I am the perfect 'slave' my ardaas is heard and answered. The context in which some choose to plot evil and are destroyed, yet others find bliss who chose to be slaves of the Guru, depends on who sees the truth of hukam and who does not.
> 
> I can't say more because I have reached the limit of my understanding of this shabad. Forgive me.


Spnadmin Jee

While reflecting at the rahao pankti when I interpret, 'ਮੰਦਾ ਚਿਤਵਤ ਚਿਤਵਤ ਪਚਿਆ ਜਿਨਿ ਰਚਿਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਦੀਨਾ ਧਾਕੁ ॥੧॥  I am getting a different message.  Plotting and conspiring evil, I was spiritually dead and manh was pushing me towards devil workshop but the moment I approached satguru and was enlightened with His grace or transformed then the same mind guided me to the righteous path and accordingly 'ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਮੀਤ ਧਨੁ ਕਿਛੂ ਨ ਰਹਿਓ ਸੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਗਇਆ ਸਭ ਭਾਈ ਸਾਕੁ ॥ over here guru sahib is not referring to biological family who have deserted me but family of demons thought like asha, trisha, nindia, chugli, haumai etc. -when kabir jee says, 'ਪਾਂਚਉ ਲਰਿਕਾ ਜਾਰਿ ਕੈ ਰਹੈ ਰਾਮ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗਿ ॥੪੨ he is not talking burning about bilogical sons but kaam krodh, lobh, moh ahnkar. And this is the 'vaak' accomplished I believe which guru sahib in the end pankti is referring.

I apologize if I am bothering you.


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## Ishna (Sep 15, 2013)

spnadmin said:
			
		

> p/s Is there a better translation for this jin jan kā kīno pūran vāk?


 


			
				aristotle said:
			
		

> Prof. Sahib Singh translates ਜਨ ਕਾ ਵਾਕੁ as ਸੇਵਕ ਦੀ ਅਰਦਾਸ(Prayer/ Ardas of the servant), which IMO will be more appropriate here, using which 'Kaho Nānak ṯis parabẖ balihārī jin jan kā kīno pūran vāk' can be interpreted as,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
What prayer, and to whom? Who did the protecting, and how?

Apologies for bothersome questions.


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## aristotle (Sep 15, 2013)

> to whom?


Like all his prayers, Guru Arjan Sahib directs this prayer towards the Akal Purakh, for whom the metaphor_ 'Narayana' _(literally the 'One who rests on water', or more appropriately the 'Supreme being who rests in His own Creation') is used.



> what prayer





> who did the protecting?





> how?


Gurmat advocates living in the _hukam_ of the Lord;  accepting at the face value how the life turns up, and perform _Ardas_  when the going gets tough. Guru Arjan Sahib faced hostilities throughout his life and Guruship, from kinsmen and the Mughal authorities alike. But, we do not come across a single word of hatred towards anyone throughout his Bani. Thinking the 'prayer' would have been something like 'Oh Lord, kill Sulhi Khan before he kills me and my Sikhs'.......nay, that would be a great disservice to Guru Sahib. Here, Guru Sahib suffered attempts at his life, and not only his life but also at the nascent Sikh community. It is no wonder Guru Sahib evoked the help of Akal Purakh in his Ardas, and when Sulhi Khan perished in his own pit, thanking Akal Purakh for protection against the evil. Such was the philosophy of my Guru Sahib, pray for yourself and your cause, if they be true, but don't direct your prayers 'against' anyone; For _Ardas_ is a connection between Man and the Divine, it is much beyond the English meanings of the word 'prayer'.


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## spnadmin (Sep 15, 2013)

japjisahib ji 

I don't think we are talking about the same shabad. Once again I do not dispute any of your ideas. However there is a primary meaning to the Sulhi shabad, and of course there is a broader meaning having ties to other ideas in Shabad guru that give this shabad its force. A primary meaning is not a literal meaning. 

In the primary meaning of the shabad it is about Sulhi Khan, as aristotle ji and Gyani ji have reinforced. In its primary meaning it is about the liberation that is gained from living in hukam. In its broader meaning it cannot escape connections to many of the other ideas that you raise. No shabad can do that. However, I have been going along thinking that the thread is about the primary meaning of the shabad. 

So at this point it is important to clarify and to ask you, Which meaning are you speaking to? The primary meaning of the Sulhi shabad? Or a broader placement of the ideas as they connect to other ideas in Kabir ji's bani? We have to clear our intentions from time to time or a conversation becomes confusing to all who are in it and all who read it.

p/s Please do not think me rude or dense. I see this as a persistent problem. An interpretation leaps over layers and layers of meaning to something that is very broad and the reader says,    :whatzpointkudi:        It is more helpful to take the time to make connections step by step.


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 16, 2013)

spnadmin said:


> japjisahib ji
> 
> I don't think we are talking about the same shabad. Once again I do not dispute any of your ideas. However there is a primary meaning to the Sulhi shabad, and of course there is a broader meaning having ties to other ideas in Shabad guru that give this shabad its force. A primary meaning is not a literal meaning.
> 
> ...


Spnadmin Jee

Let me first write down the complete interpretation of this sabd, as I understand: 
ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Bilāval mėhlā 5.
Bilaaval, Fifth Mehl:

ਸੁਲਹੀ ਤੇ ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ਰਾਖੁ ॥
Sulhī ṯe nārā▫iṇ rākẖ.
Unlike the, 'ਦੁਸਟੁ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਮੂਆ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਸੂਲ ॥੧॥, Ignorant brahmin who proclaims in 'napak' state of mind that he knows everything, Sabd guru has protected me from this disease. (thus 'sulhi is a disease and not any person that fearless Guru sahib was scared to invoke God's power)

ਸੁਲਹੀ ਕਾ ਹਾਥੁ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਪਹੁਚੈ ਸੁਲਹੀ ਹੋਇ ਮੂਆ ਨਾਪਾਕੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Sulhī kā hāth kahī na pahucẖai sulhī ho▫e mū▫ā nāpāk. ||1|| rahā▫o.
By coming into the grip of sulhi, the same time mind becomes naapak or spirtually dead, but once transformed, then this disease cannot touch any portion of body  or pollute the thought process again. The internet translation suggest that guru is boosting that because his prayer succeded by invoking akal Purakh 'The emperor did not succeed in his plot, and he died in disgrace.) ||1||Pause||

ਕਾਢਿ ਕੁਠਾਰੁ ਖਸਮਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਕਾਟਿਆ ਖਿਨ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਇ ਗਇਆ ਹੈ ਖਾਕੁ ॥
Kādẖ kuṯẖār kẖasam sir kāti▫ā kẖin mėh ho▫e ga▫i▫ā hai kẖāk.
When I surrendered in humility, within a fraction of second,  the sword of sabd guru, slashed my manh's thought process maligned with 'sulhi'.(if i take internet translation then the first question arises formless God took which form and raised His axe against laws of nature) The Lord and Master raised His axe, and chopped off his head; in an instant, he was reduced to dust.  ||1||

ਮੰਦਾ ਚਿਤਵਤ ਚਿਤਵਤ ਪਚਿਆ ਜਿਨਿ ਰਚਿਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਦੀਨਾ ਧਾਕੁ ॥੧॥
Manḏā cẖiṯvaṯ cẖiṯvaṯ pacẖi▫ā jin racẖi▫ā ṯin ḏīnā ḏẖāk. ||1||
By plotting and conspiring evil design, I was spiritually dead and manh was pushing me towards devil workshop more and more but the moment I approached satguru and was enlightened with His grace or transformed then the same mind guided me to the righteous path. (The internet translation raises a question how and what 'push' God gave me. Why He is not giving push to Jagdish Tytler, Sajjan Kumar - Is God bias) Plotting and planning evil, he was destroyed. The One who created him, gave him a push.

ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਮੀਤ ਧਨੁ ਕਿਛੂ ਨ ਰਹਿਓ ਸੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਗਇਆ ਸਭ ਭਾਈ ਸਾਕੁ ॥
Puṯar mīṯ ḏẖan kicẖẖū na rahi▫o so cẖẖod ga▫i▫ā sabẖ bẖā▫ī sāk.
over here guru sahib is not referring to biological family who have deserted him (as Guru sahib even otherwise says, 'eh kutamb tu jee daikhda chalai nahi teri naalai) but family of demons thought like asha, trisha, nindia, chugli, haumai etc(Tell me it is all money power which speaks and as such 'Does internet translation stating 'Of his sons, friends and wealth, nothing remains; he departed, leaving behind all his brothers and relatives' makes any sense.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਜਿਨਿ ਜਨ ਕਾ ਕੀਨੋ ਪੂਰਨ ਵਾਕੁ ॥੨॥੧੮॥੧੦੪॥
Kaho Nānak ṯis parabẖ balihārī jin jan kā kīno pūran vāk. ||2||18||104||
This line is the crux of whole shabd that by blessing me with sabd guru 'safal safal hoey yatra'. Says Nanak, I am a sacrifice to God, who fulfilled the word of His slave. ||2||18||104||

From the very first day I been stating that it is not sulhi khan but bondage of ahankar. Thus is both primary and broader. Moreover, when guru sahib says, 'manukh ki taikh birthi sabh jaan - will same fearless guru will make prayer to invoke akal purakh powers to silence another manukh. 

I hope I have clarified my point. However I don't claim this is the final interpretation. I am always ready for feed back. 

Best regard
sahni


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## spnadmin (Sep 16, 2013)

Respectfully japjisahibji

I have checked 3 translations other than that of Sant Sikh Kahlsa and none of them treat this as other than the story of Sulhi Khan, gone to attack Guru Arjan Dev and foiled in his plans. This is followed by a message of hukam and thanks to divine protection.

My own reading of the shabad goes in that direction as well.

But I do thank you for taking the time to explain your way to understanding the shabad. That is very helpful


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## aristotle (Sep 16, 2013)

japjisahib04 Ji,
Apologies, but your translation still doesn't make sense to me. I still stick to my point that we should translate this Shabad as it really is, not as we wish to translate it.
We must agree to disagree on this point after all.


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## spnadmin (Sep 16, 2013)

Apologies to all. This is an after-thought and not included so far in the discussion. Guru Arjan Dev ji's historical record of his interchange and encounter with Sulhi Khan is mentioned earlier in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, i.e., on Ang 371 as follows:

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Āsā mėhlā 5.
Asa 5th Guru.

ਪ੍ਰਥਮੇ ਮਤਾ ਜਿ ਪਤ੍ਰੀ ਚਲਾਵਉ ॥
Parathme maṯā jė paṯrī cẖalāva▫o.
At first I was counselled to send a letter.

ਦੁਤੀਏ ਮਤਾ ਦੁਇ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਪਹੁਚਾਵਉ ॥
Ḏuṯī▫e maṯā ḏu▫e mānukẖ pahucẖāva▫o.
Secondly, I was advised to send two men to mediate.

ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਏ ਮਤਾ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਰਉ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
Ŧariṯī▫e maṯā kicẖẖ kara▫o upā▫i▫ā.
The third suggestion was that some effort should be made.

ਮੈ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੁਹੀ ਧਿਆਇਆ ॥੧॥
Mai sabẖ kicẖẖ cẖẖod parabẖ ṯuhī ḏẖi▫ā▫i▫ā. ||1||
Forsaking one and all, I have meditated on Thee alone, O Lord. 

Knowing of the impending visit of Sulhi Khan Guru Arjan Dev documents these events in history. He speaks of the advice he received that might forestall a confrontation with Sulhi Khan sent to wreak the will of Emperor Jaganir. The shabad follows a series of vars that speak of attachment to wealth and the suffering resulting from greed. Greed, along with pride and jealousy, is the evil core that lies behind the emperor's plan. Guru Arjan in all humility seeks counsel of those close to him  and then rejects this advice Mai sabh kichh chhod in favor of parabh tuhi dhi-a-i-a.

These two banis set the stage for remembrance of Guru Arjan Dev's ultimate acceptance of hukam with devotion of the parabh at the time he knew he would give his life - his physical life.


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 16, 2013)

Spandmin Jee

Since I knew above sabd is associated by scholars with sulhi khan, when I brought up this sabd as follows, Aristotle jee objected and stated this sabd is out of context: 

'So the moments I realized the symptoms of sufferings I approach to my satguru. Gurbani narrates the vaak like this, 'ਪ੍ਰਥਮੇ ਮਤਾ ਜਿ ਪਤ੍ਰੀ ਚਲਾਵਉ ॥ when I approached my satuguru and explained symptoms of my sufferings to diagnoise, first thing satguru guides me the prescription ਦੁਤੀਏ ਮਤਾ ਦੁਇ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਪਹੁਚਾਵਉ ॥ he takes my manh to consiousness to see the logic and achieve discriminatory intellect ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਏ ਮਤਾ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਰਉ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ takes effort and avoid which over reacts ਮੈ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੁਹੀ ਧਿਆਇਆ ॥੧॥ I totally surrender my matt and adopted divine wisdom. Similarly 'ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ does not mean I sacrifice but it is bal+hari or I am surrendering my matt to adopt your divine message which paved the way for unity and accomplishment of vaak.'

I can understand your consultation of three translation, but gurusahib wants us to depend upon our own descriminatory intellect, 'har peo swami kai duarai deejai budh bheebeka' and not on others translation. Translation is the job of those,  jaisai harhat ki mala tind lagat hai.

Aristotle jee I understand your point, but please tell me whether my understnding is against gurmat.

best regard
sahni


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## aristotle (Sep 16, 2013)

> Aristotle jee I understand your point, but please tell me whether my understnding is against gurmat.


japjisahib04 Ji,
Who am I to judge you?
I can only express my views, and I'll be doing precisely that.


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 17, 2013)

aristotle said:


> japjisahib04 Ji,
> Who am I to judge you?
> I can only express my views, and I'll be doing precisely that.



But I am definite that internet translation of 'ਕਾਢਿ ਕੁਠਾਰੁ ਖਸਮਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਕਾਟਿਆ' is anti gurmat AS MY SATGURU IS SO SWEET OH KADAI N BOLAI KAUDA  and in gurmat there is no concept of invoking God's power. Gurmat concept is, 'ਤੂ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਤੁਮ ਪਹਿ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ॥ ਜੀਉ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਸਭੁ ਤੇਰੀ ਰਾਸਿ ॥ ਤੁਮ ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਹਮ ਬਾਰਿਕ ਤੇਰੇ ॥ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਮਹਿ ਸੂਖ ਘਨੇਰੇ ॥ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਜਾਨੈ ਤੁਮਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ॥ ਊਚੇ ਤੇ ਊਚਾ ਭਗਵੰਤ ॥ ਸਗਲ ਸਮਗ੍ਰੀ ਤੁਮਰੈ ਸੂਤ੍ਰਿ ਧਾਰੀ ॥ ਤੁਮ ਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਆਗਿਆਕਾਰੀ ॥ Thus in gurmat ardas means surrender. His concept is simple to understand and comprehend. This (Source of Creation) Nature is carefree, 100% carefree (Weparwah), it has no qualms whether a billion people should die tomorrow from genocide, riots,tsunami,  plague or nuclear holocaust! (because it is perpetuated under the laws of nature or hukam) (A thousand ardas would not make a difference). 

Gurmat concept is, 'ਪਸੂ ਮਾਣਸ ਚੰਮਿ ਪਲੇਟੇ ਅੰਦਰਹੁ ਕਾਲਿਆ ॥ ਸਭੋ ਵਰਤੈ ਸਚੁ ਸਚੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਨਿਹਾਲਿਆ ॥ we are nothing more than beast wrapped in human skin and full of black hearted within and will not waste a single chance to humiliate or rob until we invoke the sabd within and live accordingly. THUS GURMAT CONCEPT IS PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN THE CURE.

best regards
sahni


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