# Naam, Shabad And Bani: What Is The Difference?



## Astroboy

While reading SGGS, I have come across similarities in meaning while refering to the three words - Naam, Shabad and Bani. If they are not the same then what's the difference ? 
For example, the following three shabads :-

Page 152, Line 13
Attuned to the Word of the Shabad, one becomes sweet, like the juice of the sugar cane. ||3||
*Guru Nanak Dev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

Page 113, Line 13
The Nectar of the Guru's Bani is very sweet.
*Guru Amar Das*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

Page 170, Line 1
I have tasted the Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, by meeting the True Guru. It is sweet, like the juice of the sugarcane. ||2||


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## mahanbir singh

namjap said:


> While reading SGGS, I have come across similarities in meaning while refering to the three words - Naam, Shabad and Bani. If they are not the same then what's the difference ?
> For example, the following three shabads :-
> 
> Page 152, Line 13
> Attuned to the Word of the Shabad, one becomes sweet, like the juice of the sugar cane. ||3||
> *Guru Nanak Dev* - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
> 
> Page 113, Line 13
> The Nectar of the Guru's Bani is very sweet.
> *Guru Amar Das* - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
> 
> Page 170, Line 1
> I have tasted the Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, by meeting the True Guru. It is sweet, like the juice of the sugarcane. ||2||


 
Piary Nam Jap Ji,
Many thanks for choosing 3 shabads which convey that bani, nam & shabad are same thing.
It is true. I think bani or shabad of bani mean the same thing.However Naam is our ultimate goal. It is Love of God.Bani & shabad lead you to this love.when you are in love you sing the praises of Lord.The joy & the ecastsy of this stage cannot be described in words. words cannot describe the feelings. we are awfully limited by the words.words are not the real thig. they are only symbols or insignias.That is why when we cannot describe our feelings of joy or sorrow we cry.we can not speak the words.
A devotee of God when immersed in Naam then his stage is something like this:rMg hsY rMg rovy cup BI kr jwey, prvwh nwhI iksy kyrI bwJ scy nwieN]
I sincerely appricate your efforts to give us excellent material from gurbani. 
your giving the link & reference in your post was extremely helpful.How do you do that?
I could not find the shabad on page 170  in sggs.Pleased see if the page no is different.

With warmest regards & prayers that you enlighten us more.Thanks.
Mahanbir Singh.


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## Astroboy

Dear Mahanbir Singh Ji,

Thank you for your involvement in this cyber satsang. As you've pointed out the utmost importance of Naam.

Vichaar of naam is not theory but practical experience I believe. What is your take on this ?

[SIZE=-1]
Here's your requested page:-

[/SIZE]Page 170, Line 1
ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਰਸੁ ਚਾਖਿਆ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੀਠ ਰਸ ਗਾਨੇ ॥੨॥
Har kā nām amriṯ ras cẖākẖi▫ā mil saṯgur mīṯẖ ras gāne. ||2||
I have tasted the Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, by meeting the True Guru. It is sweet, like the juice of the sugarcane. ||2||
*Guru Ram Das*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## kiram




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## Astroboy

Kiram Ji,

You are very knowledgeable in Gurbani, I would like to welcome you to open discussion here too.


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## kiram

Namjap ji,

Thank you for sharing above the beautiful baanis.. am here to learn and really do not know much ji.. too small and like Guru Sahib Himself says "Hum Keeray Kiram Satgur Sarnaayee..............." 
Please continue to share Shabads ji... 

Thank you!

Bhul chuk mauf karna ji..

kiram


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## Astroboy

....Kar daya Naam pargaas. Mere meet gurdev, moko raam Naam pargaas.


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## Astroboy

ਸੂਹੀ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੫  ॥
सूही महला ५ ॥
Sūhī mėhlā 5.
Soohee, Fifth Mehl:
ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ  ਬੇਦ  ਪੁਰਾਣ  ਪੁਕਾਰਨਿ  ਪੋਥੀਆ  ॥
सिम्रिति बेद पुराण पुकारनि पोथीआ ॥
Simriṯ beḏ purāṇ pukāran pothī▫ā.
The Simritees, the Vedas, the Puraanas and the other holy scriptures proclaim
ਨਾਮ  ਬਿਨਾ  ਸਭਿ  ਕੂੜੁ  ਗਾਲ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ  ਹੋਛੀਆ  ॥੧॥
नाम बिना सभि कूड़ु गाल्ही होछीआ ॥१॥
Nām binā sabẖ kūṛ gālĥī hocẖẖī▫ā. ||1||
that without the Naam, everything is false and worthless. ||1||


[SIZE=-2][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=761"]Guru Granth Sahib Page 761[/SIZE]
[/URL]


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## Astroboy

ਨਾਮ  ਕੇ  ਧਾਰੇ  ਸਗਲੇ  ਜੰਤ  ॥ 
नाम के धारे सगले जंत ॥ 
Nām ke ḏẖāre sagle janṯ. 
The Naam is the Support of all creatures. 

ਨਾਮ  ਕੇ  ਧਾਰੇ  ਖੰਡ  ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ  ॥ 
नाम के धारे खंड ब्रहमंड ॥ 
Nām ke ḏẖāre kẖand barahmand. 
The Naam is the Support of the earth and solar systems. 

ਨਾਮ  ਕੇ  ਧਾਰੇ  ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ  ਬੇਦ  ਪੁਰਾਨ  ॥ 
नाम के धारे सिम्रिति बेद पुरान ॥ 
Nām ke ḏẖāre simriṯ beḏ purān. 
The Naam is the Support of the Simritees, the Vedas and the Puraanas. 

ਨਾਮ  ਕੇ  ਧਾਰੇ  ਸੁਨਨ  ਗਿਆਨ  ਧਿਆਨ  ॥ 
नाम के धारे सुनन गिआन धिआन ॥ 
Nām ke ḏẖāre sunan gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān. 
The Naam is the Support by which we hear of spiritual wisdom and meditation. 

ਨਾਮ  ਕੇ  ਧਾਰੇ  ਆਗਾਸ  ਪਾਤਾਲ  ॥ 
नाम के धारे आगास पाताल ॥ 
Nām ke ḏẖāre āgās pāṯāl. 
The Naam is the Support of the Akaashic ethers and the nether regions. 

ਨਾਮ  ਕੇ  ਧਾਰੇ  ਸਗਲ  ਆਕਾਰ  ॥ 
नाम के धारे सगल आकार ॥ 
Nām ke ḏẖāre sagal ākār. 
The Naam is the Support of all bodies. 

ਨਾਮ  ਕੇ  ਧਾਰੇ  ਪੁਰੀਆ  ਸਭ  ਭਵਨ  ॥ 
नाम के धारे पुरीआ सभ भवन ॥ 
Nām ke ḏẖāre purī▫ā sabẖ bẖavan. 
The Naam is the Support of all worlds and realms. 

ਨਾਮ  ਕੈ  ਸੰਗਿ  ਉਧਰੇ  ਸੁਨਿ  ਸ੍ਰਵਨ  ॥ 
नाम कै संगि उधरे सुनि स्रवन ॥ 
Nām kai sang uḏẖre sun sarvan. 
Associating with the Naam, listening to it with the ears, one is saved. 

ਕਰਿ  ਕਿਰਪਾ  ਜਿਸੁ  ਆਪਨੈ  ਨਾਮਿ  ਲਾਏ  ॥ 
करि किरपा जिसु आपनै नामि लाए ॥ 
Kar kirpā jis āpnai nām lā▫e. 
Those whom the Lord mercifully attaches to His Naam - 

ਨਾਨਕ  ਚਉਥੇ  ਪਦ  ਮਹਿ  ਸੋ  ਜਨੁ  ਗਤਿ  ਪਾਏ  ॥੫॥ 
नानक चउथे पद महि सो जनु गति पाए ॥५॥ 
Nānak cẖa▫uthe paḏ mėh so jan gaṯ pā▫e. ||5|| 
O Nanak, in the fourth state, those humble servants attain salvation. ||5||

[SIZE=-2]Guru Granth Sahib Page 284[/SIZE]


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## Astroboy

If Naam was some supersonic vibration (as I imagine) then dogs will go to heaven first.

Associating with the Naam, listening to it with the ears, one is saved. 

But Gurbani explains the nature of a dog and how humans are no different.

Page 672, Line 5
ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੈ ਸੁਆਨ ਕੀ ਨਿਆਈ ਚਾਰੇ ਕੁੰਟਾ ਘੋਖਾ ॥੨॥
उदमु करै सुआन की निआई चारे कुंटा घोखा ॥२॥
Uḏam karai su▫ān kī ni▫ā▫ī cẖāre kuntā gẖokẖā. ||2||
He runs around like a dog, searching in the four directions. ||2||
*Guru Arjan Dev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## Astroboy

Page 33, Line 5
ਜਤੁ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੈ ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
जतु सतु संजमु नामु है विणु नावै निरमलु न होइ ॥
Jaṯ saṯ sanjam nām hai viṇ nāvai nirmal na ho▫e.
The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is abstinence, truthfulness, and self-restraint. Without the Name, no one becomes pure.
*Guru Amar Das*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## Astroboy

Page 33, Line 8
ਅਧਿਆਤਮ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਕਰੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਕਬ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ॥
अधिआतम करम जे करे नामु न कब ही पाइ ॥
Aḏẖi▫āṯam karam je kare nām na kab hī pā▫e.
You may perform religious rituals, and still never obtain the Naam, the Name of the Lord.
*Guru Amar Das*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## Astroboy

Page 33, Line 18
ਮਨਿ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਤਾ ਪਾਏ ਮੋਖ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥੨॥
मनि निरमल नामु धिआईऐ ता पाए मोख दुआरु ॥२॥
Man nirmal nām ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai ṯā pā▫e mokẖ ḏu▫ār. ||2||
Meditating on the Naam with a pure mind, the Door of Liberation is found. ||2||
*Guru Amar Das*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


The above shabad suggests that one can reach the mokh duar (Door of Liberation) by meditating on the Naam with a pure heart. Does that mean that :-

1.   if one already knows what is Naam, he/she still needs to meditate with a pure heart ?
2.   if one already knows the Naam, he/she can still forget to meditate on it ?


[/SIZE]


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## Astroboy

Page 41, Line 9
ਰਸੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਸੁ ਅਤਿ ਭਲਾ ਕਿਤੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਰਸੁ ਖਾਇ ॥
रसु अम्रितु नामु रसु अति भला कितु बिधि मिलै रसु खाइ ॥
Ras amriṯ nām ras aṯ bẖalā kiṯ biḏẖ milai ras kẖā▫e.
The Essence of the Ambrosial Naam is the most sublime essence; how can I get to taste this essence?
*Guru Ram Das*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## Astroboy

So what is Naam that runs the whole universe and without listening to it, our lives are a wasted opportunity ?

There is a tuk from Gurbani :-

How we should understand the Creator's Lila 

ਸਲੋਕੁ  ਮਃ  ੨  ॥ 
सलोकु मः २ ॥ 
Salok mėhlā 2. 
Shalok, Second Mehl: 

ਅਖੀ  ਬਾਝਹੁ  ਵੇਖਣਾ  ਵਿਣੁ  ਕੰਨਾ  ਸੁਨਣਾ  ॥ 
अखी बाझहु वेखणा विणु कंना सुनणा ॥ 
Akẖī bājẖahu vekẖ▫ṇā viṇ kanna sunṇā. 
To see without eyes; to hear without ears; 

ਪੈਰਾ  ਬਾਝਹੁ  ਚਲਣਾ  ਵਿਣੁ  ਹਥਾ  ਕਰਣਾ  ॥ 
पैरा बाझहु चलणा विणु हथा करणा ॥ 
Pairā bājẖahu cẖalṇā viṇ hathā karṇā. 
to walk without feet; to work without hands; 

ਜੀਭੈ  ਬਾਝਹੁ  ਬੋਲਣਾ  ਇਉ  ਜੀਵਤ  ਮਰਣਾ  ॥ 
जीभै बाझहु बोलणा इउ जीवत मरणा ॥ 
Jībẖai bājẖahu bolṇā i▫o jīvaṯ marṇā. 
to speak without a tongue-like this, one remains dead while yet alive. 

ਨਾਨਕ  ਹੁਕਮੁ  ਪਛਾਣਿ  ਕੈ  ਤਉ  ਖਸਮੈ  ਮਿਲਣਾ  ॥੧॥ 
नानक हुकमु पछाणि कै तउ खसमै मिलणा ॥१॥ 
Nānak hukam pacẖẖāṇ kai ṯa▫o kẖasmai milṇā. ||1|| 
O Nanak, recognize the Hukam of the Lord's Command, and merge with your Lord and Master. ||1||


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## Astroboy

Is understanding and recognizing His Hukam better done without the physical senses ? 
Is Guru Ji talking about:
inner ears to listen to the Anhad Naad,
inner vision to see the blazing light of a million suns,
inner tongue to tast the sweetness of Naam 


Page 270, Line 12
ਜਿਹ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਸੁਨਹਿ ਕਰਨ ਨਾਦ ॥
जिह प्रसादि सुनहि करन नाद ॥
Jih parsāḏ sunėh karan nāḏ.
By His Grace, you listen to the sound current of the Naad.
*Guru Arjan Dev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


Page 700, Line 17
ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਤ ਕੋਟਿ ਸੂਰ ਉਜਾਰਾ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਭਰਮੁ ਅੰਧੇਰਾ ॥੧॥
नामु जपत कोटि सूर उजारा बिनसै भरमु अंधेरा ॥१॥
Nām japaṯ kot sūr ujārā binsai bẖaram anḏẖerā. ||1||
Chanting the Naam, the Name of the Lord, the light of millions of suns shines forth, and the darkness of doubt is dispelled. ||1||
*Guru Arjan Dev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## Astroboy

ਰਾਗੁ  ਗੂਜਰੀ  ਵਾਰ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੫ 
रागु गूजरी वार महला ५ 
Rāg gūjrī vār mėhlā 5 
Raag Goojaree, Vaar, Fifth Mehl: 

ੴ  ਸਤਿਗੁਰ  ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ  ॥ 
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥ 
Ik▫oaŉkār saṯgur parsāḏ. 
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: 

ਸਲੋਕੁ  ਮਃ  ੫  ॥ 
सलोकु मः ५ ॥ 
Salok mėhlā 5. 
Shalok, Fifth Mehl: 

ਅੰਤਰਿ  ਗੁਰੁ  ਆਰਾਧਣਾ  ਜਿਹਵਾ  ਜਪਿ  ਗੁਰ  ਨਾਉ  ॥ 
अंतरि गुरु आराधणा जिहवा जपि गुर नाउ ॥ 
Anṯar gur ārāḏẖ▫ṇā jihvā jap gur nā▫o. 
Deep within yourself, worship the Guru in adoration, and with your tongue, chant the Guru's Name. 

ਨੇਤ੍ਰੀ  ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ  ਪੇਖਣਾ  ਸ੍ਰਵਣੀ  ਸੁਨਣਾ  ਗੁਰ  ਨਾਉ  ॥ 
नेत्री सतिगुरु पेखणा स्रवणी सुनणा गुर नाउ ॥ 
Neṯrī saṯgur pekẖ▫ṇā sarvaṇī sunṇā gur nā▫o. 
Let your eyes behold the True Guru, and let your ears hear the Guru's Name. 

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ  ਸੇਤੀ  ਰਤਿਆ  ਦਰਗਹ  ਪਾਈਐ  ਠਾਉ  ॥ 
सतिगुर सेती रतिआ दरगह पाईऐ ठाउ ॥ 
Saṯgur seṯī raṯi▫ā ḏargėh pā▫ī▫ai ṯẖā▫o. 
Attuned to the True Guru, you shall receive a place of honor in the Court of the Lord. 

ਕਹੁ  ਨਾਨਕ  ਕਿਰਪਾ  ਕਰੇ  ਜਿਸ  ਨੋ  ਏਹ  ਵਥੁ  ਦੇਇ  ॥ 
कहु नानक किरपा करे जिस नो एह वथु देइ ॥ 
Kaho Nānak kirpā kare jis no eh vath ḏe▫e. 
Says Nanak, this treasure is bestowed on those who are blessed with His Mercy. 

ਜਗ  ਮਹਿ  ਉਤਮ  ਕਾਢੀਅਹਿ  ਵਿਰਲੇ  ਕੇਈ  ਕੇਇ  ॥੧॥ 
जग महि उतम काढीअहि विरले केई केइ ॥१॥ 
Jag mėh uṯam kādẖī▫ah virle ke▫ī ke▫e. ||1|| 
In the midst of the world, they are known as the most pious - they are rare indeed. ||1||


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## Astroboy

ਜਹ  ਝਿਲਿ  ਮਿਲਿ  ਕਾਰੁ  ਦਿਸੰਤਾ  ॥ 
जह झिलि मिलि कारु दिसंता ॥ 
Jah jẖil mil kār ḏisanṯā. 
Where the dazzling white light is seen, 

ਤਹ  ਅਨਹਦ  ਸਬਦ  ਬਜੰਤਾ  ॥ 
तह अनहद सबद बजंता ॥ 
Ŧah anhaḏ sabaḏ bajanṯā. 
there the unstruck sound current of the Shabad resounds. 

ਜੋਤੀ  ਜੋਤਿ  ਸਮਾਨੀ  ॥ 
जोती जोति समानी ॥ 
Joṯī joṯ samānī. 
One's light merges in the Light; 

ਮੈ  ਗੁਰ  ਪਰਸਾਦੀ  ਜਾਨੀ  ॥੨॥ 
मै गुर परसादी जानी ॥२॥ 
Mai gur parsādī jānī. ||2|| 
by Guru's Grace, I know this. ||2|| 

View Full Shabad : 
*Devotee Namdev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## Balwinder singh

Namm, when our soul is stuck up in the senses , it can not express its demand , which is rememberance of source or the God.Though our way is flowing in the pure love of our gurus and whole process of ascension gets completed automatically, we need to know the process of kundalini a little bit ,otherwise in the times of intellect we may not explain what happens to a man after reading or listening gurbani.On ang 1204 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji mention of Kundlini is there.Grace of guru (through a saint of house of Guru Nanak who is at shaktipat) liberates the bonded soul from senses area and put it in the driving seat.Soul try to search icons of compassion and love.Guru sahibs being God incarnation were the peak of Love, compassion and forgiveness and sacrifice.For the 240 years Guru Sahibs lived the life of pure soul.Thaknfulness towards Guru Sahibs puts us on the way to liberation , rest Guru Sahibs take care.When soul touches its area then it is obvious for a being who has been blessed by sikh gurus through sikh saint , to remember only Guru Sahibs .And One Jyot is in the Guru Sahibs. So the being *remembers God only always* automatically.I may be wrong but i feel this is namm.I bow my head before all for any mistake.I should be corrected if need be.


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## Balwinder singh

Shabad, our kirtan comprises raga with instruments , raga with voice and message in raga.So we listen message sung in raga ,written in raga and supported by instruments in raga.Guru Sahib is written in 31 ragas. Soul when liberated and is in namm, remembering God always longs for intensity of emotion, which is supplied by kirtan only.Even ragas are time based.Shades of love changes with respect to time also.And journey of soul from hope to disspassion through calm Gauri, shyness of todi, heat of love of sorath, bliss of bilawal,separation of behag, steadiness & bhakti ras of kalyan , bhakti ras of prabhati and vairag or dispassion of jaijaiwanti gets completed.Seven notes from sa to ne are the bases of ragas.Seven notes clears the seven chakras.Each raga works to clear our nadi system.We live in ego world and what ever we express is basically symptoms of clogged nadis. Guru Sahibs knew very well as they were the creators  of all this.They gave us a system whith which we are able to come to full potential very soon.Or enlightenments in sikh culture were in numbers.And are.Guru ji 
gave us words which gives us sounds with which our kundalini is managed effortlessly.
And an ordinary being is chisseled by *shabad* to a saint.


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## Astroboy

Page 749, Line 9
ਤਹਾ ਬੈਕੁੰਠੁ ਜਹ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਤੂੰ ਆਪੇ ਸਰਧਾ ਲਾਇਹਿ ॥੨॥
तहा बैकुंठु जह कीरतनु तेरा तूं आपे सरधा लाइहि ॥२॥
Ŧahā baikunṯẖ jah kīrṯan ṯerā ṯūŉ āpe sarḏẖā lā▫ihi. ||2||
That place is heaven, where the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises are sung. You Yourself instill faith into us. ||2||
*Guru Arjan Dev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## Astroboy

Page 669, Line 5
ਹਰਿ ਪੜੁ ਹਰਿ ਲਿਖੁ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਗਾਉ ਹਰਿ ਭਉਜਲੁ ਪਾਰਿ ਉਤਾਰੀ ॥
हरि पड़ु हरि लिखु हरि जपि हरि गाउ हरि भउजलु पारि उतारी ॥
Har paṛ har likẖ har jap har gā▫o har bẖa▫ojal pār uṯārī.
*Read* about the Lord, *write* about the Lord, *chant* the Lord's Name, and *sing* the Lord's Praises; the Lord will carry you across the terrifying world-ocean.
*Guru Ram Das*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## Astroboy

Page 195, Line 16
ਰਸਨਾ ਗੀਧੀ ਬੋਲਤ ਰਾਮ ॥
रसना गीधी बोलत राम ॥
Rasnā gīḏẖī bolaṯ rām.
Their tongues learn the habit of chanting the Lord's Name,
*Guru Arjan Dev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## pk70

*Shabad is quoted by Kiram Ji, pay attention, nothing is said about one’s own efforts, and obviously efforts are to please Guru, How? By following him, then what state of mind becomes, Guru expresses beautifully*

*ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ **॥ 
**बिलावलु महला ५ ॥ 
**Bilāval mėhlā 5. 
**Bilaaval, Fifth Mehl: 

**ਜੀਵਉ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੁਨੀ **॥ 
**जीवउ नामु सुनी ॥ 
**Jīva▫o nām sunī. 
**Hearing Your Name, I live. 

**ਜਉ ਸੁਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਭਏ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਤਬ ਮੇਰੀ ਆਸ ਪੁਨੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ **॥ 
**जउ सुप्रसंन भए गुर पूरे तब मेरी आस पुनी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ 
**Ja▫o suparsan bẖa▫e gur pūre ṯab merī ās punī. ||1|| rahā▫o. 
**When the Perfect Guru became pleased with me, then my hopes were fulfilled. ||1||Pause|| 

**ਪੀਰ ਗਈ ਬਾਧੀ ਮਨਿ ਧੀਰਾ ਮੋਹਿਓ ਅਨਦ ਧੁਨੀ **॥ 
**पीर गई बाधी मनि धीरा मोहिओ अनद धुनी ॥ 
**Pīr ga▫ī bāḏẖī man ḏẖīrā mohi▫o anaḏ ḏẖunī. 
**Pain is gone, and my mind is comforted; the music of bliss fascinates me. 

**ਉਪਜਿਓ ਚਾਉ ਮਿਲਨ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਰਹਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ਖਿਨੀ **॥**੧**॥ 
**उपजिओ चाउ मिलन प्रभ प्रीतम रहनु न जाइ खिनी ॥१॥ 
**Upji▫o cẖā▫o milan parabẖ parīṯam rahan na jā▫e kẖinī. ||1|| 
**The yearning to meet my Beloved God has welled up within me. I cannot live without Him, even for an instant. ||1||*


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## Astroboy

ਸੂਹੀ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੫  ॥ 
सूही महला ५ ॥ 
Sūhī mėhlā 5. 
Soohee, Fifth Mehl: 

ਸੇ  ਸੰਜੋਗ  ਕਰਹੁ  ਮੇਰੇ  ਪਿਆਰੇ  ॥ 
से संजोग करहु मेरे पिआरे ॥ 
Se sanjog karahu mere pi▫āre. 
May there be such an auspicious time, O my Beloved, 

ਜਿਤੁ  ਰਸਨਾ  ਹਰਿ  ਨਾਮੁ  ਉਚਾਰੇ  ॥੧॥ 
जितु रसना हरि नामु उचारे ॥१॥ 
Jiṯ rasnā har nām ucẖāre. ||1|| 
when, with my tongue, I may chant the Lord's Name||1|| 

ਸੁਣਿ  ਬੇਨਤੀ  ਪ੍ਰਭ  ਦੀਨ  ਦਇਆਲਾ  ॥ 
सुणि बेनती प्रभ दीन दइआला ॥ 
Suṇ benṯī parabẖ ḏīn ḏa▫i▫ālā. 
Hear my prayer, O God, O Merciful to the meek. 

ਸਾਧ  ਗਾਵਹਿ  ਗੁਣ  ਸਦਾ  ਰਸਾਲਾ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥ 
साध गावहि गुण सदा रसाला ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ 
Sāḏẖ gāvahi guṇ saḏā rasālā. ||1|| rahā▫o. 
The Holy Saints ever sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, the Source of Nectar. ||1||Pause|| 

ਜੀਵਨ  ਰੂਪੁ  ਸਿਮਰਣੁ  ਪ੍ਰਭ  ਤੇਰਾ  ॥ 
जीवन रूपु सिमरणु प्रभ तेरा ॥ 
Jīvan rūp simraṇ parabẖ ṯerā. 
Your meditation and remembrance is life-giving, God. 

ਜਿਸੁ  ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ  ਕਰਹਿ  ਬਸਹਿ  ਤਿਸੁ  ਨੇਰਾ  ॥੨॥ 
जिसु क्रिपा करहि बसहि तिसु नेरा ॥२॥ 
Jis kirpā karahi basėh ṯis nerā. ||2|| 
You dwell near those upon whom You show mercy. ||2|| 

ਜਨ  ਕੀ  ਭੂਖ  ਤੇਰਾ  ਨਾਮੁ  ਅਹਾਰੁ  ॥ 
जन की भूख तेरा नामु अहारु ॥ 
Jan kī bẖūkẖ ṯerā nām ahār. 
Your Name is the food to satisfy the hunger of Your humble servants. 

ਤੂੰ  ਦਾਤਾ  ਪ੍ਰਭ  ਦੇਵਣਹਾਰੁ  ॥੩॥ 
तूं दाता प्रभ देवणहारु ॥३॥ 
Ŧūŉ ḏāṯā parabẖ ḏevaṇhār. ||3|| 
You are the Great Giver, O Lord God. ||3|| 

ਰਾਮ  ਰਮਤ  ਸੰਤਨ  ਸੁਖੁ  ਮਾਨਾ  ॥ 
राम रमत संतन सुखु माना ॥ 
Rām ramaṯ sanṯan sukẖ mānā. 
The Saints take pleasure in repeating the Lord's Name. 

ਨਾਨਕ  ਦੇਵਨਹਾਰ  ਸੁਜਾਨਾ  ॥੪॥੨੬॥੩੨॥ 
नानक देवनहार सुजाना ॥४॥२६॥३२॥ 
Nānak ḏevanhār sujānā. ||4||26||32|| 
O Nanak, the Lord, the Great Giver, is All-knowing. ||4||26||32||


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## pk70

Balwinder singh said:


> Namm, when our soul is stuck up in the senses , it can not express its demand , which is rememberance of source or the God.Though our way is flowing in the pure love of our gurus and whole process of ascension gets completed automatically, we need to know the process of kundalini a little bit ,otherwise in the times of intellect we may not explain what happens to a man after reading or listening gurbani.On ang 1204 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji mention of Kundlini is there.Grace of guru (through a saint of house of Guru Nanak who is at shaktipat) liberates the bonded soul from senses area and put it in the driving seat.Soul try to search icons of compassion and love.Guru sahibs being God incarnation were the peak of Love, compassion and forgiveness and sacrifice.For the 240 years Guru Sahibs lived the life of pure soul.Thaknfulness towards Guru Sahibs puts us on the way to liberation , rest Guru Sahibs take care.When soul touches its area then it is obvious for a being who has been blessed by sikh gurus through sikh saint , to remember only Guru Sahibs .And One Jyot is in the Guru Sahibs. So the being *remembers God only always* automatically.I may be wrong but i feel this is namm.I bow my head before all for any mistake.I should be corrected if need be.




*Kindly elaborate on Guru Vaak that support your Kundli assumption, there is no such practices advocated by Guru Sahiban but by others. Guru ji says otherwise  SGGS Ji 265
* *ਅਸਟਪਦੀ  ॥ ਜਾਪ  ਤਾਪ  ਗਿਆਨ  ਸਭਿ  ਧਿਆਨ  ॥ ਖਟ  ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ  ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ  ਵਖਿਆਨ  ॥ ਜੋਗ  ਅਭਿਆਸ  ਕਰਮ  ਧ੍ਰਮ  ਕਿਰਿਆ  ॥ ਸਗਲ  ਤਿਆਗਿ  ਬਨ  ਮਧੇ  ਫਿਰਿਆ  ॥ ਅਨਿਕ  ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ  ਕੀਏ  ਬਹੁ  ਜਤਨਾ  ॥ ਪੁੰਨ  ਦਾਨ  ਹੋਮੇ  ਬਹੁ  ਰਤਨਾ  ॥ ਸਰੀਰੁ  ਕਟਾਇ  ਹੋਮੈ  ਕਰਿ  ਰਾਤੀ  ॥ ਵਰਤ  ਨੇਮ  ਕਰੈ  ਬਹੁ  ਭਾਤੀ  ॥ ਨਹੀ  ਤੁਲਿ  ਰਾਮ  ਨਾਮ  ਬੀਚਾਰ  ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪੀਐ ਇਕ ਬਾਰ  ॥     ੧॥ *
*Asatpaḏī. Jāp ṯāp gi▫ān sabẖ ḏẖi▫ān. Kẖat sāsṯar simriṯ vakẖi▫ān. Jog abẖi▫ās karam ḏẖaram kiri▫ā. Sagal ṯi▫āg ban maḏẖe firi▫ā. Anik parkār kī▫e baho jaṯnā. Punn ḏān home baho raṯnā. Sarīr katā▫e homai kar rāṯī. varaṯ nem karai baho bẖāṯī. Nahī ṯul rām nām bīcẖār. Nānak gurmukẖ nām japī▫ai ik bār. ||1|| *
*Ashtpadi. Recitation of religious books penance, religious discussions and all meditation. The exposition of six school of philosophy and Hindu ceremonial books. The practise of Yoga and the performance of religious rituals. The abandonment of everything and wandering in forest. The Performance of many efforts of various types. Alms giving oblation to fire and bestowal of many jewels. Cutting off the body into small pieces and making them an offering to fire. The performance of fastings and vows of many varieties.  All these are not equal to the contemplation of Lord's Name. Nanak even thought the Name be repeated only once under Guru's instruction. *


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## Astroboy

Page 770, Line 15
ਅਨਦਿਨੋ ਸਬਦਿ ਰਵਹੁ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦ ਵਜਾਏ ਰਾਮ ॥
अनदिनो सबदि रवहु अनहद सबद वजाए राम ॥
Anḏino sabaḏ ravhu anhaḏ sabaḏ vajā▫e rām.
Night and day, chant the Word of the Shabad; night and day, the Shabad shall vibrate and resound.
*Guru Amar Das*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## mahanbir singh

Namjapji,
My experience with Naam  Simran is that with His grace when i contemplate on His virtues & His blessings, i am fully attached with Him.i do not make any effort, automatically the word Waheguru or Satnam are uttered by my innerbeing. I enjoy this kind of Naam Simran.whether my inner being utters these words   twice or thrice in my cotemplation of 1-2 hrs i feel so happy & blissful.I enjoy this experience.
May God give such experience to all of us !
i believe when you will do this ' Amrit vela SAch nao wadiaee vichaar', automatically your soul will do the Naam Simran. To me this kind of Naam Simran is not a theory but practical way of meeting our creator who resides within all of us.


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## Amarpal

Dear Khalsa Ji,

*Bani* word is dirived from Samskrit word Vani, it means the sound of what is said.

*Shabad* means word

*Naam *is a concept to convey the thought of formless 'The Sat'.

Now I take all the three words together in the context of Sikhi.

*'Bani' *is the teachings uttered by our Guru Sahibs. The same written in text form in Siri Guru Granth Sahib becomes '*Shabad' *. '*Shabad' *is  a detailed elaboration to prepare the person to realise *'Naam'* and make her or him a *'Sikh'* i.e. the end result of teaching that is worth emulating.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh


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## spnadmin

Amarpal ji

That makes sense as you have explained it. But at times the term Shabad Guru is explained as the sound or voice of the Guru. As the "unstruck melody" is heard even though it is not heard in the ear.


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## Astroboy

Khalsa Ji,

Please advise accordingly your understanding of the following lines:-

ਮਾਝ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੩  ॥ 
माझ महला ३ ॥ 
Mājẖ mėhlā 3. 
Maajh, Third Mehl: 

ਉਤਪਤਿ  ਪਰਲਉ  ਸਬਦੇ  ਹੋਵੈ  ॥ 
उतपति परलउ सबदे होवै ॥ 
Uṯpaṯ parla▫o sabḏe hovai. 
Creation and destruction happen through the Word of the Shabad. 

ਸਬਦੇ  ਹੀ  ਫਿਰਿ  ਓਪਤਿ  ਹੋਵੈ  ॥ 
सबदे ही फिरि ओपति होवै ॥ 
Sabḏe hī fir opaṯ hovai. 
Through the Shabad, creation happens again. 

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਵਰਤੈ  ਸਭੁ  ਆਪੇ  ਸਚਾ  ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਉਪਾਇ  ਸਮਾਵਣਿਆ  ॥੧॥ 
गुरमुखि वरतै सभु आपे सचा गुरमुखि उपाइ समावणिआ ॥१॥ 
Gurmukẖ varṯai sabẖ āpe sacẖā gurmukẖ upā▫e samāvaṇi▫ā. ||1|| 
The Gurmukh knows that the True Lord is all-pervading. The Gurmukh understands creation and merger. ||1||

Page 117
 ..........................................................................................................

ਨਾਮ  ਕੇ  ਧਾਰੇ  ਆਗਾਸ  ਪਾਤਾਲ  ॥ 
नाम के धारे आगास पाताल ॥ 
Nām ke ḏẖāre āgās pāṯāl. 
The Naam is the Support of the Akaashic ethers and the nether regions. 

ਨਾਮ  ਕੇ  ਧਾਰੇ  ਸਗਲ  ਆਕਾਰ  ॥ 
नाम के धारे सगल आकार ॥ 
Nām ke ḏẖāre sagal ākār. 
The Naam is the Support of all bodies. 

ਨਾਮ  ਕੇ  ਧਾਰੇ  ਪੁਰੀਆ  ਸਭ  ਭਵਨ  ॥ 
नाम के धारे पुरीआ सभ भवन ॥ 
Nām ke ḏẖāre purī▫ā sabẖ bẖavan. 
The Naam is the Support of all worlds and realms. 

ਨਾਮ  ਕੈ  ਸੰਗਿ  ਉਧਰੇ  ਸੁਨਿ  ਸ੍ਰਵਨ  ॥ 
नाम कै संगि उधरे सुनि स्रवन ॥ 
Nām kai sang uḏẖre sun sarvan. 
Associating with the Naam, listening to it with the ears, one is saved. 
Page 284


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## Astroboy

Page 118, Line 19
ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਿਉ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਏ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਬਦਿ ਵਜਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੫॥
अम्रित बाणी सिउ चितु लाए अम्रित सबदि वजावणिआ ॥५॥
Amriṯ baṇī si▫o cẖiṯ lā▫e amriṯ sabaḏ vajāvaṇi▫ā. ||5||
Those who focus their consciousness on the Ambrosial *Bani* of the Word, hear the vibrations of the Ambrosial Word of the *Shabad*. ||5||
*Guru Amar Das*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

[/SIZE]Page 119, Line 3
ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਬਦੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਹਰਿ ਬਾਣੀ ॥
अम्रित सबदु अम्रित हरि बाणी ॥
Amriṯ sabaḏ amriṯ har baṇī.
The Shabad is Amrit; the Lord's Bani is Amrit.
*Guru Amar Das*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## pk70

Amarpal said:


> Dear Khalsa Ji,
> 
> *Bani* word is dirived from Samskrit word Vani, it means the sound of what is said.
> 
> *Shabad* means word
> 
> *Naam *is a concept to convey the thought of formless 'The Sat'.
> 
> Now I take all the three words together in the context of Sikhi.
> 
> *'Bani' *is the teachings uttered by our Guru Sahibs. The same written in text form in Siri Guru Granth Sahib becomes '*Shabad' *. '*Shabad' *is  a detailed elaboration to prepare the person to realise *'Naam'* and make her or him a *'Sikh'* i.e. the end result of teaching that is worth emulating.
> 
> V*ery well expressed. It can be very useful for the True Guru Followers to walk on this spiritual path. Sound experience is the highest one if the Lord bestows His grace Thanks Amarpal Singh jIo
> 
> *


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## Astroboy

Page 1083, Line 10
ਕਿਰਤਮ ਨਾਮ ਕਥੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਜਿਹਬਾ ॥
किरतम नाम कथे तेरे जिहबा ॥
Kirṯam nām kathe ṯere jihbā.
With my tongue I chant the Names given to You.
*Guru Arjan Dev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Naam........ Bani......... Shabd... ( Not in any particular order )
Ice............WATER.......steam... ( not in any particular order !!)
SPITITUAL/RELIGIOUS PLANE.............

Flowing water drives turbines to generate energy..electricity..etc
Steam drives locomotives..boilers..etc also generating energy
Ice..COOLS down heated temperatures...bodies..
PHYSICAL/WORLDLY PLANE..........:happy:


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## Astroboy

*As iron is carried across if it is attached to wood, 
one who is attached      to the Word of the Guru`s Shabad finds the Lord. ||2|| 
**ji-o lohaa tari-o sang kaasat lag sabad guroo har paavaigo. ||2|| (Ang 1309)


*


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## Tejwant Singh

Bani-  Shabad- Naam=  Practice of Ultra Marathon of life daily

Bani= Swimming in the waters of Maya. Beware of the Sharks.

Shabad= Bicycling over the  mountains of  stumbling blocks

Naam= Running to the finish line.

No matter who gets there first. Getting there is the only goal.

Tejwant Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਸਾਂਝਾ---748
The Updesh or teachings/Divine Message of SGGS is For ALL.

ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਕਹਤੁ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਸੁਨੈ ਸੋ ਪਾਰਿ ਪਰਾਨਥ---1001
Guru Nanak Ji is declaring the Message..whoseover hears and obeys is saved

ਆਪਿ ਕਮਾਉ ਅਵਰਾ ਉਪਦੇਸ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਪਰਵੇਸ ---  185
Do/Act as you preach...keep the Raam naam in your innermost hearts..

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਾਂ ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਸਾਂਝਾ ਉਪਦੇਸ ਕਹਿਆ ਹੈ। ਜੋ  ਪਰਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਉਪਦੇਸ ਨੂੰ ਸੁਣੇ ਗਾ ਉਸ ਦਾ ਪਾਰ ਉਤਾਰਾ ਹੋ ਜਾਵੇਗਾ। ਸਤਿਗੁਰਾਂ ਦਾ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੈ ਕਿ  ਇਸ ਉਪਦੇਸ ਨੂੰ ਆਪ ਕਮਾਉ ਅਤੇ ਹੋਰਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਸਮਝਾਓ। ਅਹਿਜਾ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਦੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ  ਵਿੱਚ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਪਰਵੇਸ ਹੋ ਜਾਵੇ ਗਾ।
ਗੁਰ ਕਹਿਆ ਮਾਨੁ ਨਿਜ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਸਚੁ ਜਾਨੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਇਹੈ  ਨਿਸਿ ਬਾਸੁਰ ਹੋਇ ਕਲ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਨੁ ਲਹਹਿ ਪਰਮ ਗਤਿ ਜੀਉ---1403
Listen to the Gurus Message..teachings...and FOLLOW..this is the ONLY MANTAR....

ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਕਹੈ  ਸੇਵਕੁ ਜਨੁ ਮਾਨੈ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਿਸਤਾਰੇ---982
The bani is GURU..the GURU is BANI..in Bani are all Amrit/Nectar..whatever the BANI says..the Sevak..follower FOLLOWS..that is having the Visible darshan of the GURU...

ਅਕਲੀ ਪੜਿੑ ਕੈ ਬੁਝੀਐ ਅਕਲੀ ਕੀਚੈ ਦਾਨੁ॥ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਰਾਹੁ ਏਹੁ  ਹੋਰਿ ਗਲਾਂ ਸੈਤਾਨੁ ---1245
Use the Guru given intellect to "follow the divine teachings"...Nanak Says THIS IS THE WAY..all other methods of Nam japp/sadhans/types /ways/etc are shaitan..creations of the idle mind

ਗੁਰਾਂ ਦਾ ਕਹਿਆ ਮੰਨਣਾ ਹੀ ਨਾਮ ਜਪਣ ਦਾ ਮੰਤਰ ਹੈ। ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਦੇ  ਗੁਰੂ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਹਨ। ਗੁਰੂ ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਕਹੈ ਲਗਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਦਾ ਪਾਰ-ਉਤਾਰਾ ਪਰਤਖਿ  ਹੋਵੇ ਗਾ। ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਧਿਆਨ ਨਾਲ ਪੜ੍ਹਕੇ ਬੁਝਣ ਦਾ ਹੁਕਮ ਦਿਤਾ ਹੈ। ਨਾਨਕ  ਜੀ ਆਖਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਰਾਹੁ ਏਹੁ ਹੈ ਹੋਰ ਰਾਹ ਕੋਈ ਨਹੀਂ। ਨਾਮ ਜਪਣ ਦੇ ਹੋਰ ਰਾਹਾਂ ਰਸਤਿਆਂ ਦੀਆਂ  ਗਲਾਂ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਸ਼ੈਤਾਨ ਹਨ। ਜਿਹੜਾ ਪਰਾਣੀ ਪੂਰੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਹੁਕਮ ਨਹੀ ਮੰਨਦਾ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ  ਮਨਮੁਖੁ ਕਹਿੰਦੀ ਹੈ।
ਪੂਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਮੰਨੈ ਓਹੁ ਮਨਮੁਖੁ --- 303
TO FOLLOW what the GURU Says is the Correct way of Naam japping....the SGGS is GURU....and whosoever disobeys this and practises other methods is a Manmukh...


To me the emphasis in Gurbani of SGGS is PRACTICAL APPLICATION of the Divine Message in our DAILY LIVES...not "mechanical" parrotting/naam japping/special sadhanas/various poses/lights off or on.background music..special clothes etc etc. More and more Sikhs seems to be going into such "sessions"..and less and less PRACTISE of the Actual Hukms of GURBANI. I have seen many  who think the Once a week Sunday 2am naam japp saadhna or the Rehras saadhna in the Guru darbar with lights off and background music is enough simran/naam japp...??? am I wrong ?? Gurbani DOESNT SUPPORT these special naam japp sessions/saadhnas....:welcome:


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## spnadmin

Gyani ji

Actually -- all the extra paraphernalia and equipment and arrangements get on my nerves. I would think people would just want to get down with it and worship without extras to use up time and energy.


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## mahanbir singh

Naam Simran is cotemplating on God's virtues & His blessings. Naam Simran is silent contemplation.
Nothing extra is required. You can do Naam Simran even whie you are sitting in a toilet.
Infact i find that as the best place during the day. No body can disturb you.Some time my wife gets impatient. why i am sitting in toilet for so long. 
I find so much peace & solace & silence that i consider this place as most wonderful.
During Amrit Vele i find to sit on chair with a cup of tea the best place to contemplate.
When i am so attached i find the outside world does not exist for me. 
This experience can not be described in words'
In my silence i keep talking to God & God keeps talking to me. we have wonderful dialouge on daily basis. it is here that i get all the inspiration & new thoughts & ideas. The information given to me is so much that i find hard to copy it down. 
God talks to all of us all the time. I am not special or better than any body.
God always talks with our feelings. Feelings are the language of soul. Feelings always contain the truth. Mind contains the openion of others.What ever mind recieves the data from outside word is an illusion. As the outside world it self is an illusion.
we have to carefully analyse which feelings are formed  by the openion & advice of others & which come straight from our heart. The test is simple. If your feelings contain joy, happiness & truth these are the feeling sent to you by God.
We are always guided by inner voice but out mind does not allow us to listen to our inner voice.Our mind talks us out to believe our inner feelings & even our intutions. Intution is our 6th sense. 
We all get hits or flashes or intution but our mind does not let us believe in them.
we reject even our own experience which is another most effective way that God teaches us . we believe in the openion of others & dont listen to God. That is why our life is in shambles.
Our True Guru is Nirankar who resides in our heart & talks to us all the time & guides throug our inner voice & our intutions & our experiences. May God give us the wisdom to listen to Him and judge that with our heart & not our minds.


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## pk70

mahanbir singh said:


> .


 *Mahanbir Singh Ji, following are my questions after your quotes, their purpose is not to question you but to know more whatever appears ambiguous, if carefully you answer those questions, may be it can help us to proceed to have dialogue with the Creator*
  Naam Simran is cotemplating on God's virtues & His blessings. Naam Simran is silent contemplation.
*I agree
*Nothing extra is required. You can do Naam Simran even whie you are sitting in a toilet.
Infact i find that as the best place during the day. No body can disturb you.Some time my wife gets impatient. why i am sitting in toilet for so long. 
*Why it is so that she complains about it, she is your wife she should have known by nowe what Mahabir Singh ji is doing in the bath room.
*I find so much peace & solace & silence that i consider this place as most wonderful.
During Amrit Vele i find to sit on chair with a cup of tea the best place to contemplate.
When i am so attached i find the outside world does not exist for me. 
This experience can not be described in words'
*I agree, that is what all say who enjoy union with Him but can you express what is the subject of this dialogue*
In my silence i keep talking to God & God keeps talking to me. we have wonderful dialouge on daily basis. it is here that i get all the inspiration & new thoughts & ideas. The information given to me is so much that i find hard to copy it down. 
*New ideas, well give an example about new ideas to share with the world*
God talks to all of us all the time. I am not special or better than any body.
God always talks with our feelings. Feelings are the language of soul. Feelings always contain the truth. Mind contains the openion of others.What ever mind recieves the data from outside word is an illusion. As the outside world it self is an illusion.
*Feelings need a base to trigger, if there is no base, there is no feelings, please elaborate the base.
* we have to carefully analyse which feelings are formed by the openion & advice of others & which come straight from our heart. The test is simple. If your feelings contain joy, happiness & truth these are the feeling sent to you by God.
*If you can analyze, kindly share those with us with examples.*
We are always guided by inner voice but out mind does not allow us to listen to our inner voice.Our mind talks us out to believe our inner feelings & even our intutions. Intution is our 6th sense.
*Without mind being focused how any thing can be experienced, elaborate the base-focus that triggers feelings*. *If the mind is focused on something, explain what is that?*
*When you go in, you start talking, mind is focused, it is that focus what I ask you about.*
We all get hits or flashes or intution but our mind does not let us believe in them.
we reject even our own experience which is another most effective way that God teaches us . we believe in the openion of others & dont listen to God. That is why our life is in shambles.
*Flashes etc come out of a focus of mind; again, you have to share that. On being focused on different basis, the flashes will be different.
* Our True Guru is Nirankar who resides in our heart & talks to us all the time & guides throug our inner voice & our intutions & our experiences. May God give us the wisdom to listen to Him and judge that with our heart & not our minds. 
*Ultimate Guru is of course Him but to realize that still mortals need some one who can show Him presence with in, as per your statement, you have that technique, whatever you have shared, it doesn’t enable others to see Him in, kindly come up with more elaboration for examples Guru Nanak goes in detail like over coming the stuff that hinders our progression(SGGS877).*


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## spnadmin

pk70 ji

Maybe it is not my place to respond. But I think "feelings" may not mean the same thing as "emotions." Feeling could be sensations and they could be intuitions. Just wondering if mahanbir ji would say what meaning he brings to the idea of God with our:{- feelings


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## Astroboy

VaheguruSeekr said:


> Bani-  Shabad- Naam=  Practice of Ultra Marathon of life daily
> 
> Bani= Swimming in the waters of Maya. Beware of the Sharks.
> 
> Shabad= Bicycling over the  mountains of  stumbling blocks
> 
> Naam= Running to the finish line.
> 
> No matter who gets there first. Getting there is the only goal.
> 
> Tejwant Singh



Please elaborate.:happy:


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

aad0002 said:


> Gyani ji
> 
> Actually -- all the extra paraphernalia and equipment and arrangements get on my nerves. I would think people would just want to get down with it and worship without extras to use up time and energy.



Exactly Aad002 ji.

Maybe they need the "props" as much  a s the director/playwrights do to stage their play..NATAK !!


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## Tejwant Singh

aad0002 said:


> Actually -- all the extra paraphernalia and equipment and arrangements get on my nerves. I would think people would just want to get down with it and worship without extras to use up time and energy.



Antonia ji,

By extra paraphernalia and equipment, you mean those  cars with hydraulics that dance while moving forward?


I agree with you, for me too, candle light  dinner-food for soul needs only enough light to brighten the darkness within. nothing else. And that light with everlasting batteries is in Guru Vichaar, understanding Gurbani and using it in our everyday life so that we  can also see clearly during our darker times. Without this practice it is tough to see when it is dark within. 

Isn't that the true essence of Chardi Kala?

Tejwant Singh


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## Tejwant Singh

> Originally Posted by *VaheguruSeekr*
> 
> 
> _Bani-  Shabad- Naam=  Practice of Ultra Marathon of life daily
> 
> Bani= Swimming in the waters of Maya. Beware of the Sharks.
> 
> Shabad= Bicycling over the  mountains of  stumbling blocks
> 
> Naam= Running to the finish line.
> 
> No matter who gets there first. Getting there is the only goal.
> 
> Tejwant Singh_


Namjap ji,

Guru Fateh.

You said



> Please elaborate.:happy:


Let me give it a shot. 

I have no idea if you have read about the training of an ultra marathoner. If you have not Google is and then you will be understand my thinking better.

When I used to train for marathons, it was a grueling thing. Then one day some of my mates decided to train for the ultra marathon which is also called Iron man triathlon held in Hawaii. consisting of a 2.4 mile (3.9 km) swim in the open ocean, 112 mile (180 km) bicycling through the  rugged moutains and 26.2 mile (42.2 km) marathon run. There are also other ultramarathons which consist of 120 miles runs etc etc.

My friends and I started training for the Iron man Marathon. I was doing fine with my training in running and bike but swimming was not my game no matter how hard I tried. I could not swim for more than one mile. It is more to do with not learning the right techniques. It is easy to swim in a pool but very tough in the open ocean at least  for me. So I gave up  the training after 3 months.

Although I gave  up the ironman training, I continued my marathon and bicycling training. What it gave me was internal grit, determination and mind over matter when one is out of any physical strength.

Now coming back to my comparison of this with  Gurbani.

"Bani-  Shabad- Naam=  Practice of Ultra Marathon of life daily

Bani= Swimming in the waters of Maya. Beware of the Sharks.

Shabad= Bicycling over the  mountains of  stumbling blocks

Naam= Running to the finish line."

The sad part is that we do  Nitnem which includes morning  5 banis, Rehras and Sohila and then we add Sukhmani at times and also reading SGGS as part of Sehaj Paath and also sometime volunteer when our friends have Akand Paaths.

All this is nothing but parroting, a transistory feel good when we are not in a hurry to sing it slowly and enjoy the moments. As Gurbani is sung or recited in a poetic way, it does have a feel good pick me up in it as anything added with music we like does.

Lots of people now on the internet involved with reciting a million Chaupais.

Now the question becomes what are the  concrete changes and results of doing all this?

How many of us really study Gurbani and practice it in our lives?

Coming back to my  ultra marathon comparison once again, all that training brings physical and mental changes and they are visible in the physique and also in the behaviour. They go hand in hand. Only by exerting phsyically we can make our mind stronger. 

Our mental health does depend on our physical fitness. No matter how much Paath we parrot for how many years, if we are not physically fit we will not see the change. Now the argument from someone in the forum may say how about those who are handicap? Well. my answer to them is that mentally strong handicap people do not use that as an excuse but as a challenge. One can Google and find their inspiring stories all over.

The idea of studying Gurbani is to become mentally stronger so we can breed goodness within to be shared by all.

Gurbani- as you know it very well and would like you to post the Shabads where it has- TUN & MUNN together- and let's read and study those Shabads then my comparison will  become more nitid to all.

So in other words, I need your help  with  the Shabads with Tun & Munn  in them so we can start our Grumatl aerobic and anaerobic  exercise in the forum.


Tejwant Singh


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## Astroboy

Vaheguruseekr Ji,

You mean shabads like this ?

Page 20, Line 16
*ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਹਿ ਵੇਚਿਆ ਮਨੁ ਦੀਆ ਸਿਰੁ ਨਾਲਿ ॥*
तनु मनु गुर पहि वेचिआ मनु दीआ सिरु नालि ॥
Ŧan man gur pėh vecẖi▫ā man ḏī▫ā sir nāl.
I have sold my body and mind to the Guru, and I have given my mind and head as well.
Guru Nanak Dev   -  view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


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## Tejwant Singh

namjap said:


> Vaheguruseekr Ji,
> 
> You mean shabads like this ?
> 
> Page 20, Line 16
> *ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਹਿ ਵੇਚਿਆ ਮਨੁ ਦੀਆ ਸਿਰੁ ਨਾਲਿ ॥*
> तनु मनु गुर पहि वेचिआ मनु दीआ सिरु नालि ॥
> Ŧan man gur pėh vecẖi▫ā man ḏī▫ā sir nāl.
> I have sold my body and mind to the Guru, and I have given my mind and head as well.
> Guru Nanak Dev   -  view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok



YES...!

And Thanks

Tejwant Singh


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## Astroboy

Page 32, Line 14
*ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥*
गुर का सबदु मनि वसै मनु तनु निरमलु होइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Gur kā sabaḏ man vasai man ṯan nirmal ho▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The Word of the Guru's Shabad abides within the mind, and the body and mind become pure. ||1||Pause||
Guru Amar Das   -  view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


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## mahanbir singh

PK70 JI, Thank you so much for asking very important & pertinent questions. I will write the answers on my word document & then paste it here, sometimes my writting gets washed out whien i write at the space provided here. Pl give me a day or two.


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## Astroboy

ਬਾਣੀ  ਵਜੈ  ਸਬਦਿ  ਵਜਾਏ  ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਭਗਤਿ  ਥਾਇ  ਪਾਵਣਿਆ  ॥੫॥ 
बाणी वजै सबदि वजाए गुरमुखि भगति थाइ पावणिआ ॥५॥ 
Baṇī vajai sabaḏ vajā▫e gurmukẖ bẖagaṯ thā▫e pāvṇi▫ā. ||5|| 
The Word of His Bani vibrates, and the Word of His Shabad resounds, for the Gurmukh whose devotional worship is accepted. ||5|| (Ang 122)


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## Astroboy

Ang 996

ਮਾਰੂ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੪  ਘਰੁ  ੩ 
मारू महला ४ घरु ३ 
Mārū mėhlā 4 gẖar 3 
Maru 4th Guru. 

ੴ  ਸਤਿਗੁਰ  ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ  ॥ 
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥ 
Ik▫oaŉkār saṯgur parsāḏ. 
There is but One God. By True Guru's grace, He is obtained. 

ਹਰਿ  ਹਰਿ  ਨਾਮੁ  ਨਿਧਾਨੁ  ਲੈ  ਗੁਰਮਤਿ  ਹਰਿ  ਪਤਿ  ਪਾਇ  ॥ 
हरि हरि नामु निधानु लै गुरमति हरि पति पाइ ॥ 
Har har nām niḏẖān lai gurmaṯ har paṯ pā▫e. 
Through the Guru's guidance, gather thou the treasure of the God's name and thereby thou shalt obtain honour in the Lord's court. 

ਹਲਤਿ  ਪਲਤਿ  ਨਾਲਿ  ਚਲਦਾ  ਹਰਿ  ਅੰਤੇ  ਲਏ  ਛਡਾਇ  ॥ 
हलति पलति नालि चलदा हरि अंते लए छडाइ ॥ 
Halaṯ palaṯ nāl cẖalḏā har anṯe la▫e cẖẖadā▫e. 
Here and hereafter, God goes with thee and shall deliver thee in the end. 

ਜਿਥੈ  ਅਵਘਟ  ਗਲੀਆ  ਭੀੜੀਆ  ਤਿਥੈ  ਹਰਿ  ਹਰਿ  ਮੁਕਤਿ  ਕਰਾਇ  ॥੧॥ 
जिथै अवघट गलीआ भीड़ीआ तिथै हरि हरि मुकति कराइ ॥१॥ 
Jithai avgẖat galī▫ā bẖīṛī▫ā ṯithai har har mukaṯ karā▫e. ||1|| 
Where there are difficult paths and narrow streets, there the Lord-master alone shall rescue thee. 

ਮੇਰੇ  ਸਤਿਗੁਰਾ  ਮੈ  ਹਰਿ  ਹਰਿ  ਨਾਮੁ  ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇ  ॥ 
मेरे सतिगुरा मै हरि हरि नामु द्रिड़ाइ ॥ 
Mere saṯigurā mai har har nām driṛ▫ā▫e. 
O my True Guru, enshrine thou within me the Lord-God's Name. 

ਮੇਰਾ  ਮਾਤ  ਪਿਤਾ  ਸੁਤ  ਬੰਧਪੋ  ਮੈ  ਹਰਿ  ਬਿਨੁ  ਅਵਰੁ  ਨ  ਮਾਇ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥ 
मेरा मात पिता सुत बंधपो मै हरि बिनु अवरु न माइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ 
Merā māṯ piṯā suṯ banḏẖpo mai har bin avar na mā▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o. 
The Lord is my mother, father, son and relation. Without God, I have not another, O my mother. Pause. 

ਮੈ  ਹਰਿ  ਬਿਰਹੀ  ਹਰਿ  ਨਾਮੁ  ਹੈ  ਕੋਈ  ਆਣਿ  ਮਿਲਾਵੈ  ਮਾਇ  ॥ 
मै हरि बिरही हरि नामु है कोई आणि मिलावै माइ ॥ 
Mai har birhī har nām hai ko▫ī āṇ milāvai mā▫e. 
God's Name and God is dear unto me. Let some one come and unite me with Him, O my mother. 

ਤਿਸੁ  ਆਗੈ  ਮੈ  ਜੋਦੜੀ  ਮੇਰਾ  ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮੁ  ਦੇਇ  ਮਿਲਾਇ  ॥ 
तिसु आगै मै जोदड़ी मेरा प्रीतमु देइ मिलाइ ॥ 
Ŧis āgai mai joḏ▫ṛī merā parīṯam ḏe▫e milā▫e. 
I make obeisance before him, who may make me meet with my beloved. 

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ  ਪੁਰਖੁ  ਦਇਆਲ  ਪ੍ਰਭੁ  ਹਰਿ  ਮੇਲੇ  ਢਿਲ  ਨ  ਪਾਇ  ॥੨॥ 
सतिगुरु पुरखु दइआल प्रभु हरि मेले ढिल न पाइ ॥२॥ 
Saṯgur purakẖ ḏa▫i▫āl parabẖ har mele dẖil na pā▫e. ||2|| 
The mighty and merciful True Guru is the embodiment of the Lord. He make no delay in uniting the mortal with God. 

ਜਿਨ  ਹਰਿ  ਹਰਿ  ਨਾਮੁ  ਨ  ਚੇਤਿਓ  ਸੇ  ਭਾਗਹੀਣ  ਮਰਿ  ਜਾਇ  ॥ 
जिन हरि हरि नामु न चेतिओ से भागहीण मरि जाइ ॥ 
Jin har har nām na cẖeṯi▫o se bẖāghīṇ mar jā▫e. 
They, who deliberate not over the Lord Master's Name are unfortunate and are annihilated. 

ਓਇ  ਫਿਰਿ  ਫਿਰਿ  ਜੋਨਿ  ਭਵਾਈਅਹਿ  ਮਰਿ  ਜੰਮਹਿ  ਆਵੈ  ਜਾਇ  ॥ 
ओइ फिरि फिरि जोनि भवाईअहि मरि जमहि आवै जाइ ॥ 
O▫e fir fir jon bẖavā▫ī▫ah mar jamėh āvai jā▫e. 
They are, over and over again, goaded into existences. They die, are reborn and continue coming and going. 

ਓਇ  ਜਮ  ਦਰਿ  ਬਧੇ  ਮਾਰੀਅਹਿ  ਹਰਿ  ਦਰਗਹ  ਮਿਲੈ  ਸਜਾਇ  ॥੩॥ 
ओइ जम दरि बधे मारीअहि हरि दरगह मिलै सजाइ ॥३॥ 
O▫e jam ḏar baḏẖe mārī▫ah har ḏargėh milai sajā▫e. ||3|| 
Bound at the death's door, they are soundly beaten and suffer punishment at the God's court. 

ਤੂ  ਪ੍ਰਭੁ  ਹਮ  ਸਰਣਾਗਤੀ  ਮੋ  ਕਉ  ਮੇਲਿ  ਲੈਹੁ  ਹਰਿ  ਰਾਇ  ॥ 
तू प्रभु हम सरणागती मो कउ मेलि लैहु हरि राइ ॥ 
Ŧū parabẖ ham sarṇāgaṯī mo ka▫o mel laihu har rā▫e. 
Thou art my Master, I seek Thine refuge, O God, the king, unite Thou me with Thyself. 

ਹਰਿ  ਧਾਰਿ  ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ  ਜਗਜੀਵਨਾ  ਗੁਰ  ਸਤਿਗੁਰ  ਕੀ  ਸਰਣਾਇ  ॥ 
हरि धारि क्रिपा जगजीवना गुर सतिगुर की सरणाइ ॥ 
Har ḏẖār kirpā jagjīvanā gur saṯgur kī sarṇā▫e. 
O God, the life of the world, take Thou pity on me and keep me under the protection of the Great True Guru. 

ਹਰਿ  ਜੀਉ  ਆਪਿ  ਦਇਆਲੁ  ਹੋਇ  ਜਨ  ਨਾਨਕ  ਹਰਿ  ਮੇਲਾਇ  ॥੪॥੧॥੩॥ 
हरि जीउ आपि दइआलु होइ जन नानक हरि मेलाइ ॥४॥१॥३॥ 
Har jī▫o āp ḏa▫i▫āl ho▫e jan Nānak har melā▫e. ||4||1||3|| 
Becoming merciful, the Sire Lord-Master has blended serf Nanak with Himself.


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## Astroboy

I am looking for a gursikh 
(Jan Nanak Dhoor Mange Tis gursikh kee, Jo aap Jappey avarra naam japavvey)

I am looking for someone who could explain my following query:-
Through the Guru's guidance, gather thou the treasure of the God's name and thereby thou shalt obtain honour in the Lord's court. 

This tuk (translated) is a form of instruction. It instructs that even if we have the guru's guidance, there is still work to be done. We are supposed to gather the treasure of the God's name. 

*My query summarizes down to the following:
*  Guru Ji is often quoted to saying that the only thing which goes along is the Naam. Imho, Naam is very subtle and communicates with the soul. It is some form of fertilizer for the soul while we live in this duality consciousness. But we use limited form of expression, the human language with words that require physical eyes to read. 

The answer lies here: Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib


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## mahanbir singh

namjap said:


> I am looking for a gursikh
> (Jan Nanak Dhoor Mange Tis gursikh kee, Jo aap Jappey avarra naam japavvey)
> 
> I am looking for someone who could explain my following query:-
> Through the Guru's guidance, gather thou the treasure of the God's name and thereby thou shalt obtain honour in the Lord's court.
> 
> This tuk (translated) is a form of instruction. It instructs that even if we have the guru's guidance, there is still work to be done. We are supposed to gather the treasure of the God's name.
> 
> *My query summarizes down to the following:*
> Guru Ji is often quoted to saying that the only thing which goes along is the Naam. Imho, Naam is very subtle and communicates with the soul. It is some form of fertilizer for the soul while we live in this duality consciousness. But we use limited form of expression, the human language wih words that require physical eyes to read.
> 
> The answer lies here: Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib


 
In my openion any teacher or a guru has to give you the home work. 
Home  work for gathering the treasure of Naam is to repeat the  name of god & coteplate  on His virtues & blessings in silent meditatn. There are so many ways you can meditate. 
Even sewa is a form of meditation.
when you are walking & see a beutiful flower if you stop & enjoy the beuty & appreciate the creator it is a walking meditation.
when you see awsome display of stars on the sky &   wonder who is the artist you will get  connected with the creator it is a form of meditation. 
There are so many other ways in which you can get connected.
This is very plesant work. Infact it is not a work, it is dyeing your soul in the love of God. Love is not a work but enjoyment. If you are mechanically repeating God's name
 you will not achieve much but when you have love for the creato who created you & gave you eyes, ears, nose, mouth , hands & feet & you are aware & conscious of these blessings you will enjoy contemplating on God. Just contemplate on His Formlessness & the Form you will enjoy His company. His form you see with open eyes . All that is , is God. This as we know is His Sargun Saroop. When you close your eyes & focus on virtues & blessings specially what He has done for you you will enjoy this experience. Always Thank God. Always speak these words WAHEGURU TERA SHUKAR HAI. when some body gives us a pen to write we say very sincerely Thank you. When some body gives a seat in a bus we very gratefully say Thank you. Our Karta Purakh who has given us seat in this world & who has given us Body, Mind & soul we forget to say Thank you or WAHEGURU TERA SHUKAR HAI,
To me saying Thank you to Waheguru is the best form of meditation. Every body loves who is Thanked. This will bring closer to God. This is very useful home work that we all can do including our children. 
Having union with God does not require penances & fasts or even many paths. it requires loving Him with your heart.
with Love
Mahanbir Singh


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## Astroboy

Mahanbir Singh Ji,

Thank you for such supportive words. What you've mentioned isn't anything new but a part and parcel of one's life; just that I have not paid enough attention to those things (which really matter) as highlighted in your post/reply. I thank you not just for being a reminder but also your style of conveying the message, which is very poetic and soothing, went right through. 
I'm learning with joy in the company of Gursikhs.


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## spnadmin

namjap ji 

I agree with you. Mahanbir ji brings Guruji right to the core of my heart -- all that is sweet.


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## mahanbir singh

namjap ji & aa0002 ji
you are very pure souls & have very kind heart. That is why guru's word get into every cell of your body & they soalk your inner being, God bless you. you both are doing a great sewa to sikh community. Whahguru Rakha.


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## spnadmin

Mahanbir ji

I simply like the idea that your are an active forum member looking for ways to support the others with inspiration and insight. Do not abandon that path because there are moments when your words may be the only words that take hold and inspire another person when nothing else has worked.

Sat Nam


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## mahanbir singh

Thanks Antonia ji Waheguru ji taught me this long back. you never know in which form or through which cannel God will make His presence felt in you. He can appear in the form of a book, a tap, a cd. a dance & not necssarily from spirtual beings. He can appear from street cleaners & that lady that collects bags. we are His tools & He uses whatever tool He likes. Do not hate any body. All are His bodies. just think what a person has said & not what a person is wearing.

Antonia ji i am eagerly looking forward to your grasp on Asa di vaar. please write. it will benefit the whole humanity. i have done more katha in our gurdwara in perth. your wisdom of Asa de vaar will help me immensely. with regards,

Mahanbir Singh


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## spnadmin

Mahanbir ji

Once again and again and again you give simple and clear guidance in a way that supports and comforts everyone. Thank you for having a calming influence. 

If things settle down I will try to write something about Asa kee Vaar -- have been neglecting many threads that I started recently. But you must understand that I am new at this and depend on the help of you and others who have deep understanding of Guru's bani.


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## mahanbir singh

My dear friend Antonia ji, 
you uderestimate your self. you have all the knowledge & the wisdom. just pick up the pen or sit infront of your computer then see what happens. you will be amazed with the grace of Wageguru ji. i am not giving you a pep talk . i believe in you . i know what i  have seen in you. dont shy , dont wait. This subject of Asa ki vaar is very dear to your heart. Dont worry about other threads. Do you know whe you get a vision to do something & you dont do  , YOU TURN DOWN GOD.  I think i will write a post on How we Turn Down God. with love & regards  Mahanbir  Singh


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## spnadmin

Mahanbir ji

I will give it a try. Thank you and await your new post.


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## Astroboy

Page 1171, Line 7
ਅਖਰ ਲਿਖੇ ਸੇਈ ਗਾਵਾ ਅਵਰ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ਬਾਣੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
अखर लिखे सेई गावा अवर न जाणा बाणी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Akẖar likẖe se▫ī gāvā avar na jāṇā baṇī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
*I sing the Word which You have written*; I do not know any other Word. ||1||Pause||
*Guru Nanak Dev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## 10ik

Sikhi isn't something presented as a ready-made philosophy with its own rigid terminology.Guru Sahiban weren't providing some word-play or flowery poetry but just recording there experiences which is more of mysticism than a philosophy. For understanding mystical writings (sacred or not) it's not the knowledge of a certain language or terminology that could be of help what only the life-experience ( especially spiritual ) of the reader (doer).You can find these words used as synonyms (and different from one another in a single line). Still it be hard to describe Naam with the help of Shabad (or even word/s) or Baani ( or even lengthy treatise/s) as, JETA KEETA TETA NAAM ( EVERYTHING CONCEIVABLE OR UN-CONCEIVABLE IS NOTHING BUT NAAM)


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## Scarlet Pimpernel

*Naam a simple truth  ?*

I don't like complicated and abstract explanations for Naam .I like simple truths, I *feel* it means Truth. As we undertand it in his name is Truth .When it says practice the naam it means practice the *Truth*. Concentrate means concentrate on the *Truth* ,the naam as bani is still *Truth*, the created Universe is the manifestation of same *Truth* .*Sri Guru Granth Sahib* explains only one word ,simply the first word uttered by *Guru Nanak* in the *Manntra- nce*. It is possible to realise all there and realise nothing even after analysing many pages .I think it helps to hear what you read aswell,as there is a soothing flow to the words which seems to be an *embed* of *naam*.You can learn alot analytically but thats not the way to realisation or *feeling *it deep inside.


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## spnadmin

*Re: Naam a simple truth  ?*

Sinner ji

We need to move this discussion to one or another thread on Naam or it will become confusing to all. Thank you.

Moved to http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/23733-naam-shabad-and-bani-what-difference.html


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## ravneet_sb

Sar Sri Akaal,

ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਰਸੁ ਚਾਖਿਆ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੀਠ ਰਸ ਗਾਨੇ

Our body release chemicals (Ras) for e.g. 

One have perception of tasty food, saliva (Ras) is produced

So do

One have visual realisation of "Naam" or "Word" 

Each "WORD" gives "RAS" or "Feeling" to "Seeker" or "Sikh" or "Learner"

One who realise, has "NAAM" "RAS"

But one has to  realise word as the meta physical existense ("NIRGUN" and "SARGUN" form of "WORD")

No "WORD" is without "META PHYSICAL" reality.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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