# Average Jatt Sikh Male Height 5' 7"



## kds1980 (Aug 6, 2010)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3190178

Body measurements and somatotypes of young adult Jat-Sikh men of Punjab, India.

Singh SP, Sidhu LS, Malhotra P.

Department of Human Biology, Punjabi University, Patiala, India.
Abstract

During 1972 body measurements including height, weight, limb circumferences, skeletal diameters and skinfolds were taken on 100 unrelated and healthy Jat-Sikh men of 17 to 25 years of age, belonging to different areas of Punjab, India. The average height and weight of Jat-Sikhs is 170.4 cm and 54.5 kg, respectively. The mean Heath-Carter somatotype is 3.22-3.40-4.11. The majority of somatotypes is concentrated in endo-ectomorph and meso-ectomorph sectors of the somatochart. Comparisons with recently described data on females of the same area and population show significant sex differences in various body measurements except for the bicristal diameter. The females possess significantly more subcutaneous fat. For the rest of the measurements, the males have higher values. The Jat-Sikh males are comparable in height and weight to the contemporary pooled Punjabi, but are distinctly taller than the neighbouring populations of Himachal Pradesh and pooled all India samples. However, they are comparatively smaller and lighter as compared to European and American populations.


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## spnadmin (Aug 6, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*

*LOL. Sounds just like my husband's business partners. To the last bicristal!Only problem. They are Khatris...Guess that puts them in the all Punjabi pool. *


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## kds1980 (Aug 6, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*



Narayanjot Kaur said:


> *LOL. Sounds just like my husband's business partners. To the last bicristal!Only problem. They are Khatris...Guess that puts them in the all Punjabi pool. *



To be honest this study surprised me too.I used to Think That an average jatt is about 5-10 or 5-11


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## spnadmin (Aug 6, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*

Don't forget there is a range and a standard deviation. I too think of Jaats as tall. There are Jaat males that exceed the average. If we know more about the distribution of this sample - the one examined by the researchers - we could even estimate the percentage that are above the average height. If the distribution is normal, bell-shaped, with basically even numbers above and below the average height or mean, then the estimation of the percentages within different height ranges will be easy.


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## badshah (Aug 6, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*



Kanwardeep Singh said:


> To be honest this study surprised me too.I used to Think That an average jatt is about 5-10 or 5-11


 
Nah thats just Jatts brain washing you and especially Jatt World talking crap.....

Its a long story but I have grown up with Jatts and they actually think I am a Jatt because I am big and strong and have fair skin, not bad looking...... oh yeah the story.... basically Jatts think that any SIkh guy who is strong is a Jatt, so they mistake Chamars and God knows who else by thinking he must be Jatt..... also they think that all tough people are Jatts and talk wildly about how Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Hari Nalwa etc etc a the greatest Jatts ever.... I am sure that this kind of stuff is not prevalent amongst all Jatts but for some reason they have brain washed themselves into thinking like this..... I kind of just give up now - I dont care any more because this ignorance is just not going to change is is fueled even more by places like Jatt World....

Lastly celebrating Jattism as a race is great I dont care but when it goes beyond that into a supiority level then thats when it gets out of hand..... its total pie in the sky stuff

This Greek god type of Jatt just simply does not exist!

However on a postive note, I wish all my Jatt brothers all the best and if they do have such big pride in being a Jatt that they put it into good use (as they have done in previous wars) because we might have some testing times comming up ahead that tests the Sikh people as a whole and we need to support each other.... I am going to a second Sikh to Bangladeshi wedding next week.... oh well!

Good luck!


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## kds1980 (Aug 6, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*

http://www.upscexam.com/defence_exa...rmy/soldier_general_duty_sgd/eligibility.html

Here is the minimum height eligibilty chart for Indian army soldier.Punjab  region has highest 
minimum requirement and that is 170 cm so I guess this average is true as lot of jatt sikhs and hindu jaats apply for army


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## spnadmin (Aug 6, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*

I can't get to the original study. So no statistics available for me to look at. The percentages of who is taller than the mean would depend on the statistics that describe this sample. If I could find that out, then we would know whether the typical Jaat is taller than 5-7. It is statistically possible. I don't doubt the average number. but...The average height can be a misleading number for several reasons, and only works if height is normally distributed. Leave it at that for now.


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## badshah (Aug 6, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*



Narayanjot Kaur said:


> I can't get to the original study. So no statistics available for me to look at. The percentages of who is taller than the mean would depend on the statistics that describe this sample. If I could find that out, then we would know whether the typical Jaat is taller than 5-7. It is statistically possible. I don't doubt the average number. but...The average height can be a misleading number for several reasons, and only works if height is normally distributed. Leave it at that for now.


 
http://www.health-forums.com/misc-f...uth-asian-groups-tamils-topashtuns-62390.html


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## badshah (Aug 6, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*

The average Punjabi looks like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Khali


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## kds1980 (Aug 6, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*



badshah said:


> http://www.health-forums.com/misc-f...uth-asian-groups-tamils-topashtuns-62390.html


I am really sorry but it is childish study as he is putting arora sikhs,Gujrati hindu  and haryanavi in same height bracket .In India every one knows that haryanavi are almost equal to jatt sikhs while Gujrati and bengali,bihari are quite short.Accorsing to wikipedia Indian average male is between 5-3 and 5-5 While according his study average height of No Indian male is 5-7


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## spnadmin (Aug 6, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*

jbadshah ji

Thanks but in addition to knowing the average height of the Punjabi Jaat male, I need to know the standard deviation for the sample, the confidence interval for the average given, the mode or most frequent height recorded, and the value for the skewness of the measured heights (whether or not there is an even distribution of heights on either side of the mean). Without that it is impossible to know whether the mean or average height is misleading. My guess is that it is misleading but I can't prove it. I think the  first author would share that information. The first author's resume is on the net. He can be reached.


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## BhagatSingh (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*

Was this study not done in 1970?? That's quite a while back, Jatts (and others) may well be taller now because of better nutrition and healthcare.



> However, they are comparatively smaller and lighter as compared to European and American populations.


... because Westerners had better nutrition and healthcare.


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## kds1980 (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*



BhagatSingh said:


> Was this study not done in 1970?? That's quite a while back, Jatts (and others) may well be taller now because of better nutrition and healthcare.
> 
> 
> ... because Westerners had better nutrition and healthcare.



In Indian cities the nutrition got better and what was 5-6 in 70s is now 5-9 
But in Rural India nutrition has gone worse as lot of milk is now sold at higher rate to cities and towns.So may be today height is one inch taller or shorter


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## kds1980 (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*



> Its a long story but I have grown up with Jatts and they actually think I am a Jatt because I am big and strong and have fair skin, not bad looking...... oh yeah the story.... basically Jatts think that any SIkh guy who is strong is a Jatt, so they mistake Chamars and God knows who else by thinking he must be Jatt..... also they think that all tough people are Jatts and talk wildly about how Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Hari Nalwa etc etc a the greatest Jatts ever.... I am sure that this kind of stuff is not prevalent amongst all Jatts but for some reason they have brain washed themselves into thinking like this..... I kind of just give up now - I dont care any more because this ignorance is just not going to change is is fueled even more by places like Jatt World....



Jatts as fair skinned people is One of the biggest misconception.Brahmin,Khatri and arora are fairest people.among sikhs it is khatri's and arora's .No doubt jatts have big physique 
and more masculine feature's .Infact if you look at film industry of India you will find priyanka chopra and kareena kapoor among top and they both are fair skinned hindu khatri's


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## Sikh royalist (Aug 8, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*

physical features are gift of nature you can never judge a particular community about any thing be it height,skin colour or any other thing.
Jatts no doubt are blessed by the Guru and have sharp features 
i really doubt the accuracy of this survey back in time to be a soldier in the sikh regiment it was complursary for you to be jatt sikh, sikhs belonging to ioc(other indian castes) were recruited in sikh li(light infantry) regiments and the minimum height eligible for sikh regiment was 6 ft which is still the same and almost all the families had a son in army which is only possible when the average jatt sikh male was taller.

rest it all depends from place to place like jatts of northern punjab(area above lahore) are  fairer to jatts of southern punjab(multan and other areas) 

i belong to a jatt sikh family and i have not seen anyone even in our distant relations who is as short as 5"7


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## Sikh royalist (Aug 8, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*



Kanwardeep Singh said:


> Jatts as fair skinned people is One of the biggest misconception.Brahmin,Khatri and arora are fairest people.among sikhs it is khatri's and arora's .No doubt jatts have big physique
> and more masculine feature's .Infact if you look at film industry of India you will find priyanka chopra and kareena kapoor among top and they both are fair skinned hindu khatri's




veer ji i know a lot of arora and khatri girls who are beautiful winkingmunda
but that does not guarantee that all arora and khatri girls are fair skinned or even beautiful. 

that depends from person to person like our punjabi lady gaga miss pooja is a good looking girl and in fact she is a dalit girl does that mean all dalit girls are good looking?


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## kds1980 (Aug 8, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*



Sikh royalist said:


> veer ji i know a lot of arora and khatri girls who are beautiful winkingmunda
> but that does not guarantee that all arora and khatri girls are fair skinned or even beautiful.
> 
> that depends from person to person like our punjabi lady gaga miss pooja is a good looking girl and in fact she is a dalit girl does that mean all dalit girls are good looking?



I haven't said that all arora or Khatri Girls are beautiful or fair skinned .


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## hsaluja (Aug 9, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*

I hate to be the one to point out, but using the word khatri, jatt ... in a sikh forum is a bit odd. We are all sikh, are not we?


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## kds1980 (Aug 9, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*



hsaluja said:


> I hate to be the one to point out, but using the word khatri, jatt ... in a sikh forum is a bit odd. We are all sikh, are not we?



H saluja ji

This thread neither is not boasting about jatts neither here there is any bashing here .It just simply points to scientific study.I don't think anything is wrong in pointing scientific studies regarding ethnicities.For example would you find it odd if someone puts a study that average weight of White American sikh is 70 kg?


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## badshah (Aug 9, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt sikh male - 5-7*



Sikh royalist said:


> veer ji i know a lot of arora and khatri girls who are beautiful winkingmunda
> but that does not guarantee that all arora and khatri girls are fair skinned or even beautiful.
> 
> that depends from person to person like our punjabi lady gaga miss pooja is a good looking girl and in fact she is a dalit girl does that mean all dalit girls are good looking?


 

I have only met like one or two Khatri girls in my life, I think they only make up 2% of SIkihsm and the rest are in Hinduism.  I got no idea what percentage make up the Hindu Khatro population though....?


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## Sikh royalist (Aug 11, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*

badshah veer what's the difference between the two?


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## hsaluja (Aug 11, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*

I think people who have used the term in past be the best to answer this one. But I only know this one, that it is a tumorous thing in punjab. I was there in patiala for my engineering for 4 yrs and saw the ugly situation there, but promised my self to never differentiate.


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## Randip Singh (Aug 12, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*

I think one of the biggest myths ever spread was that all Jatts are big and bad.

Yes they do have a military tradition, but as a proportion of the Sikh population (in temrs of what their caste numbers were). Labana, Khatri, Tarkhan, Ramdasia, Ravidasia etc actually joined the military from the Sikh community in far higher numbers.

Overall Jatt Sikhs represented Sikhs in the army in higher numbers because they are the most Sikhs i.e. 55%. For example Labana Sikhs are about 5% of Sikhs. Now if 30% of all Jatt Sikhs join the Army and 60% of all Labana Sikhs join the army (as they did), Jatt Sikh would still out number them.

Those that beat their chests about how brave their castes are should ask themselves, why don't their non-Sikh memebers join the Army in such high numbers (this applies to Jatts too).?

As for being fair and tall, this is a myth. As someone stated above, Khatri Sikhs, Rajput Sikhs and even Tarkhan Sikhs are far more light skinned.


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## ugsbay (Aug 12, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*

I went to a Ravidasia wedding last year and in my honest opinion nearly all were very light skinned. As for height i would say the average was 5"9. I dont quiet know how some castes come to the assumptions that their's is better regarding looks, height and how tough they are. I would agree with Randip Singh Ji"s post. Regarding nutrition yes it certainly plays a big role.


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## spnadmin (Aug 12, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*



> Yes they do have a military tradition, but as a proportion of the Sikh population (in temrs of what their caste numbers were). Labana, Khatri, Tarkhan, Ramdasia, Ravidasia etc actually joined the military from the Sikh community in far higher numbers.



This is a fact...I have read this in more than one official record...without the stats I was keeping my mouth shut. It is a fact and it carries more clout coming from Randip ji than it would from me. For some non Jaats in the military the great incentive offered by the Brits was the promise of land in other colonies such as in Africa. It is great that this thread is sorting it out.


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## hsaluja (Aug 12, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*

I think this discussion will never come to a conclusion, and we should just accept that we are all the same, our ancestors took similar choice not so many years ago, and here we are, Sikh, and we all should be proud and respect each other and everyone else...


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## Sikh royalist (Aug 12, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*



Randip Singh said:


> Those that beat their chests about how brave their castes are should ask themselves, why don't their non-Sikh memebers join the Army in such high numbers (this applies to Jatts too).?



Even non-sikh jats have a martial status and are warrior since ages.we have separate jat regiments in the infantry and also in other core's which i have observed my self.

where do we have khatri, labana, tarkhan regiments?


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## kds1980 (Aug 12, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*



Sikh royalist said:


> Even non-sikh jats have a martial status and are warrior since ages.we have separate jat regiments in the infantry and also in other core's which i have observed my self.
> 
> where do we have khatri, labana, tarkhan regiments?



I beg to Differ here .Jats have been living in Punjab and northern India since very long time yet there is not even a one single major battle fought between non sikh jatts and muslim invaders .Infact in all the major battle there were Rajputs who were badly defeated and then Maratha's who were also defeated in Panipat.If jats were so brave and brilliant warriors then how come Muslim invaders were successful in Northern India?Also we should not forget that like other Punjabi's large number of jats converted to islam out of fear.


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## Sikh royalist (Aug 13, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*

kanwardeep sir
there's a Persian saying that an army of sheep's led by a lion can defeat an army of lion's led by a sheep.when the Guru said he will make one stand against lakhs it was the confidence of a leader there was nothing racial in it actually warriors are like swords a leader knows how to utilise them their leader's brings them to victory.
Jats had no leader they did revolted under Gokula but that was too late but what so ever they were brave.
all the other people you have mentioned had leaders.

the clan that i belong to always confronted abdali and his men but we were few in number later we joined the sikhs  

you know one thing brother even a regiment of eunuch's can fight bravely if they have a good leader.


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## kds1980 (Aug 13, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*



Sikh royalist said:


> kanwardeep sir
> there's a Persian saying that an army of sheep's led by a lion can defeat an army of lion's led by a sheep.when the Guru said he will make one stand against lakhs it was the confidence of a leader there was nothing racial in it actually warriors are like swords a leader knows how to utilise them their leader's brings them to victory.
> Jats had no leader they did revolted under Gokula but that was too late but what so ever they were brave.
> all the other people you have mentioned had leaders.
> ...



Sikh Royalist ji

I am really sorry to say that but that is not answer to my question.The questions remains with Jats that why there was no leader Who could lead the jats.

As far Abdali is concerned ,It was already too late .Islamic invasions started with Defeat of Dahir and annexation of sind and later on invasion by Ghaznavi and Ghauri.Infact we can safely say that Defeat of prithviraj Chauhan was the end of Hindu Rule in Northern India.So in no way we can say that jats were brave enough to fight and save India from those Brutal invaders as jats were there in Northern India.I don't believe that jats or any other Punjabi community could boast there bravery.It was sikhs of all castes including jats who turned the table.The Punjabi pride and ego which is getting bigger and bigger these days is all because of sikhism O/W all Punjabi' castes would have been reading quran


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## Randip Singh (Aug 14, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*



Sikh royalist said:


> Even non-sikh jats have a martial status and are warrior since ages.we have separate jat regiments in the infantry and also in other core's which i have observed my self.
> 
> where do we have khatri, labana, tarkhan regiments?



Well you need to learn some history my friend.

Find out about the Pioneer Regiments.

10th Sikh LI

Ramgarhia Brigade


and yes Labana's had their own regiment too.

...and non Jat Sikhs do have their own Jat regiment, but it remains a fact that the Jat Sikhs were thought of as better than their non-Jatt Sikh brethren. I can furnish hundreds of sources, here is one:

The reason for this was summed up by Major A.E. Barstow as being due to the influence of Sikhism._  "As has already been explained the virtues of the Jats are identical  with those of the Sikhs, but the latter possess in a higher degree the  ardent military spirit which had its origin in the warlike precepts of  Gobind Singh."_


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## Sikh royalist (Aug 14, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*



Kanwardeep Singh said:


> Sikh Royalist ji
> 
> I am really sorry to say that but that is not answer to my question.The questions remains with Jats that why there was no leader Who could lead the jats.
> 
> As far Abdali is concerned ,It was already too late .Islamic invasions started with Defeat of Dahir and annexation of sind and later on invasion by Ghaznavi and Ghauri.Infact we can safely say that Defeat of prithviraj Chauhan was the end of Hindu Rule in Northern India.So in no way we can say that jats were brave enough to fight and save India from those Brutal invaders as jats were there in Northern India.I don't believe that jats or any other Punjabi community could boast there bravery.It was sikhs of all castes including jats who turned the table.The Punjabi pride and ego which is getting bigger and bigger these days is all because of sikhism O/W all Punjabi' castes would have been reading quran



you know who defeated Dahir sen?

it's a long story before Dahir was the king jats ruled Sindh and Dahir who was a bhramin took the chair with his brainy tricks and he imposed lots of impositions on the jats which included restriction on the use of horse possession of sword and the wearing of turban the jats rebelled and later joined the invading islamic armies and thus sindh was lost.in a similar fashion the janjua rajputs helped the capture of northern punjab.

This story was not about their bravery but about their fighting skills and as i have said earlier warriors are like swords.

It is not that jats never had any leader but when we talk about the time period when mughal invasion started there was no strong jat kingdom
but gradually the jats started their resistance and then was born Maharaja Surajmal the plato of jats he was such a great man you must read about him.
the mughals had tried a lot to destroy the ambitions of the jat people from the souther (greater) punjab/ northern rajasthan but this man put an end to it  
swordfight and formed a jat empire

you want to know about something specific?


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## Sikh royalist (Aug 14, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*



> Well you need to learn some history my friend.


young friend will be more apt 




> Find out about the Pioneer Regiments.
> 
> 10th Sikh LI
> 
> ...



they are recruited because they are sikh and these regiments are sikh regiments and i have mentioned it earlier that sikhs belonging to oic(other indian castes) are recruited in the sikh li regiments and these days even in the sikh regiments.
but you have asked about non-sikh fellows. 



> ...and non Jat Sikhs do have their own Jat regiment, but it remains a fact that the Jat Sikhs were thought of as better than their non-Jatt Sikh brethren. I can furnish hundreds of sources, here is one:
> 
> The reason for this was summed up by Major A.E. Barstow as being due to the influence of Sikhism._  "As has already been explained the virtues of the Jats are identical  with those of the Sikhs, but the latter possess in a higher degree the  ardent military spirit which had its origin in the warlike precepts of  Gobind Singh._


_

actually its not properly quoted the thing is the difference is not too big non-sikh jats are brave but we in a comparison are even more braver even if you consider a khatri sikh he is braver than a non-sikh jat but a non-sikh jat is 100 times more braver than a hindu or muslim khatri.

truly speaking the hindu or even the muslim jats are not my brothers in any terms you know better than me of our relations we are not as close as hindu khatri and sikh khatris are but still i feel the same that even non-sikh jats are brave._


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## kds1980 (Aug 14, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*



Sikh royalist said:


> you know who defeated Dahir sen?
> 
> it's a long story before Dahir was the king jats ruled Sindh and Dahir who was a bhramin took the chair with his brainy tricks and he imposed lots of impositions on the jats which included restriction on the use of horse possession of sword and the wearing of turban the jats rebelled and later joined the invading islamic armies and thus sindh was lost.in a similar fashion the janjua rajputs helped the capture of northern punjab.
> 
> ...



Sikh Royalist

Very few jats joined muhammed bin qasim .Infact it is written that he persecuted jats

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_bin_Qasim

The narrative in the Chach Nama conveys that Chach humiliated the sdJats and Lohanas. Denzil Ibbetson records that "Muhammad bin Qasim maintained these regulations, declaring that the jats resembled the savages of Persia "[19] According to Wink "While the Jats were also granted (aman) a considerable number of Jats were also captured as prisoners of war and deported to Iraq and elsewhere as slaves.[

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Here is something from jatland.com

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http://www.jatland.com/home/Jats_in_Islamic_History

When Muhammad bin Qasim attacked Dahlilah, a fortified town in between Roar and Brahmanabad, most of the inhabitants (the Jats) had abandoned the place and migrated to Rajasthan via desert and took shelter in the country of Siru (modern Sirohi) which was then ruled by King Deva Raj, a cousin of Rai Dahir

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As far Jat king Surajmal is concerned .yes he had victories and his kingdom  but saying that he created jat empire is exageration

Also please tell me why such a large number of jats were converted to islam
if they were so brave?

Let me tell you one thing Religion,culture and society plays much bigger role than ethnicity of people.Look at Afghans they were and still are the toughest people to break.Soviet tried to win over them but failed now USA is trying but it looks like they too are failing.But at one time Muslims defeated and converted them at that time no such bravery was shown by them becasue they use to practice Budhism/hinduism


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## ik-jivan (Aug 14, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*

Kanwardeep Singh ji,
I have reasons to disagree, at least in part. Here, read this, it’s a nice synopsis:
--------------------------------------
Haplogroup R1a is found today across a large swathe of Asia and Europe and may have originated in South or Central Asia. R1a is most common among Pakistanis, Northern, Russians, Ukrainians and the Kyrgyz and Altai peoples of Central Asia. In Europe R1a is the most common group in Slavic peoples and is also very common in Scandinavia. The presence of R1a in the British Isles is in the main due to Norse Viking ancestry, although Anglo-Saxons and Danes will have carried a smaller proportion there and there is a rare English-specific subgroup. It has been hypothesised that haplogroup R1a was carried to by the Kurgan culture, who domesticated the horse. 
Source: http://www.topix.com/forum/world/united-kingdom/TEGNF3QD7T3JIGU7F
----------------------------------
Do you notice anything? Those with Haplogroup R1a genetics do seem to have marshal tendencies. 

Punjab has a high proportion of Haplogroup R1a genetics, due to Scythian/Saka heritage. 

Have a look at the Kurgan Hypothesis. Now look at the spread of R1 Haplogroup. 
 
Essentially, all the aggressive blood brothers have been beating on each other . . . in time maybe they will learn this. 

Ahhh, but God forbid that the wee, tiny Punjabi Jatt lads ever meet up with Alani-Celt lassies!  For then there would be a reckoning!


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## kds1980 (Aug 15, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*



ik-jivan said:


> Kanwardeep Singh ji,
> I have reasons to disagree, at least in part. Here, read this, it’s a nice synopsis:
> --------------------------------------
> Haplogroup R1a is found today across a large swathe of Asia and Europe and may have originated in South or Central Asia. R1a is most common among Pakistanis, Northern, Russians, Ukrainians and the Kyrgyz and Altai peoples of Central Asia. In Europe R1a is the most common group in Slavic peoples and is also very common in Scandinavia. The presence of R1a in the British Isles is in the main due to Norse Viking ancestry, although Anglo-Saxons and Danes will have carried a smaller proportion there and there is a rare English-specific subgroup. It has been hypothesised that haplogroup R1a was carried to by the Kurgan culture, who domesticated the horse.
> ...



ik jivan ji

just look at following
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1_(Y-DNA)
The highest levels of R1a (>50%) are found across the Eurasian Steppe: West Bengal Brahmins (72%), and Uttar Pradesh Brahmins, (67%) , the Ishkashimi (68%), the Tajik population of Khojant (64%), Kyrgyz (63.5%), Sorbs (63.39%), Poles (56.4%), Ukrainians (50%) and Russians (50%)[11][9][12][13] and in the Central India among the Saharia tribe of Madhya Pradesh R1a*(22.8%) and R1a1(28.07%).[14]


If I agree with above then west bengal and Uttar pradesh Brahmins should have the highest Martial tendencies.Is anyone Going to believe in it?

As I said above Afghans after the conversion to islam became deadliest Fighters But no such Resistance was shown to islamic invaders as a result 99.7% population of Afghanistan is muslim now.How is it possible that before Islam they were conquered and After islam they themselves became invaders


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## hsaluja (Aug 15, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*

[FONT=Verdana, Arial]Those who think that the European Lineage is superior, so if they belong to it, makes them superior inturn, think again. I just found the below extract:

R1a and R1a1a were once believed to  have originated somewhere within Eurasia, thought to be in the area  from Eastern Europe to South Asia. But the most recent studies indicate  that South Asia is a more likely region of origin than Europe."   

Source
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Etruria_the_Etruscans_celts.htm[/FONT]


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## Randip Singh (Aug 15, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*



Sikh royalist said:


> young friend will be more apt
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually, this IS properly quoted and was something noticed by Major A E Barstow of the British Army.

After this, Turbaned Amritdhari Sikh Jatts were given privileged over their non-Sikh brethren. Its a fact. They were simply braver, and better soldiers, and that was due to their religion, Sikhism. Please research it my young friend .

Another thing to note is, the word Jat (as used by the British), because synonymous with Sikh, therefore some old texts by the British, state Jatt or Jat-Sikh, when they are referring to Sikhs of all background. It was only Barstow (and others) that tried to map the differences.

My family (who are a farming landowning caste), are often (and were in the past), confused with Jats. Maybe it was our aggressive temperament icecreammunda. I have spoken to others who have had the same treatment.

As I have stated earlier, there were not significant numbers of non-Sikh Tarkhans, Khatri's etc in Punjab to warrant the raising of regiments, whereas non_Sikh Jatts there were plenty of.

There are plenty of other non-Sikh regiments eg, Dogras, Rajputs, Labana  even Brahmins etc.


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## harbansj24 (Aug 15, 2010)

I do not think that bravery has got anything to do with lineage, caste or the religion that one is born into. It just the motivation towards a cause that a leader or a Guru is able to instill in his protege that matters.
Our Gurus were able to instill superlative qualities in their Sikhs through stirring Bani and personal example irrespective whether the person was a Shudra, Brahmin, Bania, Khatri or a Jatt.
Alas among the contemporary Sikhs we do not have worthy persons who can carry the spirit of Gurbani through personal example. that explains our plight. 
But as an optimist, I believe that this vacuum will not last forever. Gurbani is bound to find a target on some highly gifted  spirited and energetic soul to carry forward its immortal task.


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## spnadmin (Aug 15, 2010)

If a haplogroup is equated with martial instincts, then the connection between genotyupes and phenotypes and social traditions is being badly confused.

But I think ik-jivaan ji was joking around IMHO.

The English also described themselves as a martial race during the time of the raj. The earliest intelligence tests and theories of intelligence to precede the now long standing Stanford Binet test measured traits like visual speed and reflexes. 

 Naturally the upper classes were found to have these traits in high measure. And naturally these were considered to be the traits of a fine warrior. swordfight

Naturally the peoples in the colonies were found to be slow and dull. 

When genetics are used to explain martial ability we are typically looking at an argument having something to do with the "right to rule" based on genetic superiority. 

:firing:

Science has often been perverted to serve political and social agendas. I have no clue why Jaats would want to go there.


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## kds1980 (Aug 15, 2010)

harbansj24 said:


> I do not think that bravery has got anything to do with lineage, caste or the religion that one is born into. It just the motivation towards a cause that a leader or a Guru is able to instill in his protege that matters.
> Our Gurus were able to instill superlative qualities in their Sikhs through stirring Bani and personal example irrespective whether the person was a Shudra, Brahmin, Bania, Khatri or a Jatt.
> Alas among the contemporary Sikhs we do not have worthy persons who can carry the spirit of Gurbani through personal example. that explains our plight.
> But as an optimist, I believe that this vacuum will not last forever. Gurbani is bound to find a target on some highly gifted  spirited and energetic soul to carry forward its immortal task.




I agree that caste or lineage has nothing to do with martial quality ,but religion has to do with it.For example is it possible for Jain who has never killed an insect to go in battlefield and kill humans and see blood?


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## ik-jivan (Aug 15, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*

Kanwardeep Singh ji,
Interestingly, the Pashtuns are the founders and the largest ethnic group within Afghanistan.  Back in 330 BC, Alexander the Great wrote this about them:
_"I am involved in the land of a 'Leonine' (lion-like) and brave people, where every foot of the ground is like a wall of steel, confronting my soldier. You have brought only one son into the world, but everyone in this land can be called an Alexander,"_​We know the people of Afghanistan were not Islamic back then, so that means the Afghan marshal tendencies have a basis other than religion. The article also states:
_"The history of the Pashtun people is ancient, and much of it is not fully researched. Since the 2nd millennium BC, cities in the region now inhabited by Pashtuns have seen invasions and migrations, including by early Aryan tribes,[28][29] the Median and Persian empires of antiquity, Greeks, Mauryas, Kushans, Hephthalites, Sassanids, Arab Muslims and successive Muslim kingdoms, Mongols, and possibly others. In recent age, people of the Western world have explored the area but the *Pashtun region has never been conquered by any group*."_​The Pashtun are considered an Iranian people, who are of the Haplogroup R1a1 (Y-DNA).
 
With regard to West Bengal and Uttar Pradesh, keep in mind that ‘marshal tendencies’ don’t necessarily equate to a ‘deadliest fighter’ quality. It can also be expressed in general unrest, such as violence and crime and we do know that both Uttar Pradesh and West Bengal are hotbeds of criminal activity in India. 

Of course, I am not biased toward any particular group of people. The R1 haplogroup is very widespead. Rather, my intention is to identify the underlying cause for aggressive, domineering behaviour. I don’t think it is religion. Although religion may be cited as the reason for offensive incursions, so has commercial exploitation and now even humanitarian liberation!  When we saw the Indian Independence Movement peoples of all three major Indian religions resisted the commercial intrusion/religious degradation of the British.  So religious and commercial exploitation are how the tendency is expressed, but not the cause of the tendency.

Whatever the ‘fight factor’ is, if it isn’t genetic predisposition, it is what causes religion – a word that means ‘return to unity’ – to be used as a reason for wars and oppression.  I think the hunt for the 'fight factor' is a worthy cause.  We – all humanity – need to figure out how to manage conflict better.  I'm sure we can both agree on this point. : )

Chardi Kala!


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## kds1980 (Aug 15, 2010)

Well you have not answered my question if Afghani or even Persians were so brave then why they all converted to islam? I don't expect any brave tribe or ethnicity to give up its religion.

coming to your other point west bengal and Up are hotbeds of crime but reason is mass poverty and caste.Infact majority of dacoits or thieves are from lower castes and not brahmins and as mentioned in wiki R1a is found in Brahmins.Let me tell you one more thing Brahmins of UP are neither considered as brave or voilent on the other hand they are dominating jobs in Govt services and private sectors,so they are very much in education


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## ik-jivan (Aug 15, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh ji,
Well there are reasons, other than force, for which the Pashtuns may have converted. 

They might have had a visit from a very convincing person, like Guru Nanak Dev ji, who gave them reason to believe the message of the Islamic dispensation
They might have been economically persuaded, like the Spanish, when the Romans brought them public libraries, beautiful gardens and other developments
They may have been like the French and English, who sought military assistance from the Romans in defense against the Franks and converted out of allegiance and the need for continued protection
Who knows why they converted, but if the ‘_Pashtun region has never been conquered by any group_’, then it is clear the reason for conversion was not forced assimilation, so their bravery might not have been a deciding factor for or against.

To your other point, you have hit on the key ingredient that eradicates violence, poverty and religious fanaticism – EDUCATION. The Brahmins of UP have both secular and spiritual education.


Chardi Kala!


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## Sikh royalist (Aug 22, 2010)

*Re: Average Jatt Sikh Male Height - 5' 7"*



Randip Singh said:


> Actually, this IS properly quoted and was something noticed by Major A E Barstow of the British Army.
> 
> After this, Turbaned Amritdhari Sikh Jatts were given privileged over their non-Sikh brethren. Its a fact. They were simply braver, and better soldiers, and that was due to their religion, Sikhism. Please research it my young friend .
> 
> ...




Dear Randip Singh,
I must say you have a lot of confidence but your confidence does not comprehend your knowledge atleast about the Indian army.
i have a lot of "professionals" in my family and i will be one of them in the coming years you know what i mean. i grew up watching all that which you are asking me to "research"

swordfight


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