# What Do You Visualize When You Think Of Ik▫oaŉkār ੴ



## Ambarsaria (Dec 19, 2011)

As we get more understanding of the creator in life, we start to visualize certain imagery representing our understanding.  It may be as simple as just a void, a Universe of waves and matter in a blob, some Guru jis visualization based on imagery from paintings, or some other things unique to each one of us.

  For example when I visualize Ik▫oaŉkār ੴ  I see the following when I close my eyes:

I generally see it as,
​ *A**.* *With Eyes Open:*​ An ever changing mass of matter that embeds parts of other things and life in us and vice versa.  When I touch I impart a part of me in what I touch and the object does the reverse.  So we are like an entity in continuous exchange from far and wide as well as close and near.​ *B**.  With Eyes Closed*​ Like in 2 below​




​  Do you experience some thing like that or perhaps one of the following,



A saintly figure
Universe of gases, lights and shapes so      slowly transforming
Darkness with light rays
Nothing at all
 
  In my visualization it is all “One Continuum” or  “One”.  

  It will be interesting to exchange thoughts, comments and ideas.

  Sat Sri Akal.


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 19, 2011)

Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

Why is the visualsation important or a must? Ik Ong Kaar is omnipresent? One can enjoy the awe and the wow factors that we are surrounded by. The Truth as in the first pauri of Jap needs no visualisation. Only make believe imaginary things need that.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 19, 2011)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Ambarsaria ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> ...


Veer Tejwant Singh ji I am not suggesting it is important.  Just what comes to mind.  Question is not necessarily seeking it either.  May be just hallucination in a way.  So perhaps not a good thing.

I assume your answer is "Nothing at All".

I simply shared my thoughts.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## spnadmin (Dec 19, 2011)

I  will take a big step and say unreservedly, "Nothing at All."


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 19, 2011)

spnadmin said:


> I  will take a big step and say unreservedly, "Nothing at All."


From above comments it appears I am a very visual person.  Shame on me  lol:angryyoungkaur:

Sat Sri Akal.


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## BhagatSingh (Dec 19, 2011)

Ambarsaria ji, I am also a very visual person but I don't see any images.

But I know many Sikhs that see Guru Nanak or one of the Gurus as an image for IkOankar so you are not alone when it comes to seeing images.


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Dec 19, 2011)

Veer Ji ,I visualize that I am the visualization.


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## BhagatSingh (Dec 19, 2011)

Sp ji,
Sounds interesting. How so?


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Dec 19, 2011)

Musketeer Ji we are ones that are Gods visualization ,so how can he be visualized by his own visualization.
Hold on some people with white coats have just knocked the door!


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 19, 2011)

Scarlet Pimpernel said:


> Musketeer Ji we are ones that are Gods visualization ,so how can he be visualized by his own visualization.
> Hold on some people with white coats have just knocked the door!


Baby Brother Veer sp ji when did I say I saw God.  I simply say I see me extending in nearness and see farther extending towards us and all around.  Kind of 1 but that is creation and not the creator or is it!  I am so confused    :interestedmunda:.  The girl is dancing, the guy is playing Tabla and the girl is eating pop corn, and why not kaurhug .  Oh no, a man is hugging you too  ikonkaar

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Ishna (Dec 19, 2011)

A fascinating topic, Ambarsaria bhaji (or uncle -- what's uncle in Punjabi??).

I chose 'other' because the visualisation changes depending on the mood.  Sometimes (and most usually) it's a soup... other times it's just a mind-blowing energy stretching from before time to after time... it's very hard to explain!


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 19, 2011)

The wonderful thing about Sikhi is that it teaches us to eliminate visualisation and turn it into realisation which requires some more steps than just sitting and parroting any few words.

The religions based on deity gods need the visual of some being super or not because that is the basis of their religion.

The New Age religions also believe in the visualisation, that is the reason the small models of operated on AC/DC water falls(not Abba's song) became mode de jour in the guise of some meditation.

Bhagat Singh ji: you write, 





> But I know many Sikhs that see Guru Nanak or one of the Gurus as an image for IkOankar so you are not alone when it comes to seeing images.



As our Gurus did not have their portraits done on purpose, so what people visualise is what is being fed to them as our Gurus which I personally think is an insult and part of the ignorance gentry who call themselves Sikhs. As insulting as to the cartoonists who "cartooned" Mohammed whose picture/face no one has seen. All those designs looked like Sikh figures.

Tejwant Singh


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 19, 2011)

Veer Tejwant Singh ji I do want to flag couple of things for consideration.  When I read Gurbani I don't assume that it was written by Guru ji and put away to be published.  I see in my mind Guru ji giving discourses, providing courage to the meek to think different, think aside from their existing religions pressures and doctrines.  It is likely that I am 100% wrong but when we see some of the characterizations of nature, animals, humans and their actions, it becomes a visualization in addition to respectful wisdom to learn from.  I find it a marvelous personal experience that way.

Sheikh Farid ji do it in even more vivid ways.  Let us review couple of their saloks,

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> ਫਰੀਦਾ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਲੋਇਣ ਜਗੁ ਮੋਹਿਆ ਸੇ ਲੋਇਣ ਮੈ ਡਿਠੁ ॥
> 
> फरीदा जिन्ह लोइण जगु मोहिआ से लोइण मै डिठु ॥
> 
> ...


_Farid, I have seen the eyes that enchanted the world_


> ਕਜਲ ਰੇਖ ਨ ਸਹਦਿਆ ਸੇ ਪੰਖੀ ਸੂਇ ਬਹਿਠੁ ॥੧੪॥
> 
> कजल रेख न सहदिआ से पंखी सूइ बहिठु ॥१४॥
> 
> ...


_Ones that could not tolerate eye liner, now birds so sit and hatch there_​ 

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> ਫਰੀਦਾ ਥੀਉ ਪਵਾਹੀ ਦਭੁ ॥
> फरीदा थीउ पवाही दभु ॥
> Farīḏā thī▫o pavāhī ḏabẖ.
> Fareed, become the grass on the path,
> ...


_Farid become grass on a dirt path_


> ਜੇ ਸਾਂਈ ਲੋੜਹਿ ਸਭੁ ॥
> जे सांई लोड़हि सभु ॥
> Je sāŉ▫ī loṛėh sabẖ.
> if you long for the Lord of all.
> ...


_If looking for creator everywhere_


> ਇਕੁ ਛਿਜਹਿ ਬਿਆ ਲਤਾੜੀਅਹਿ ॥
> इकु छिजहि बिआ लताड़ीअहि ॥
> Ik cẖẖijėh bi▫ā laṯāṛī▫ah.
> One will cut you down, and another will trample you underfoot;
> ...


_Ones will cut, many others trample_


> ਤਾਂ ਸਾਈ ਦੈ ਦਰਿ ਵਾੜੀਅਹਿ ॥੧੬॥
> तां साई दै दरि वाड़ीअहि ॥१६॥
> Ŧāŉ sā▫ī ḏai ḏar vāṛī▫ah. ||16||
> then, you shall enter the Court of the Lord. ||16||
> ...


_Then you will enter creator’s door_
_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_


So in my mind the visualizations that spring relate to such and extensions there of.  Fortunate are some who have experienced many descriptions in nature, by people and the like as it ads an extra dimension to understanding._

_Sat Sri Akal.

*PS:  *I have translated Sheik Farid ji's entire Bani from SGGS.  I may post in the future if there is interest in such.  My concern is that my style is different from the teacher-student, excessive humble attachments to straight translations, etc.  I do this to simply not add to Guru ji's and others thoughts that I can understand from their writings.

Many are not used to this, many don't like this style, so I am a little gun shy that way.  I do it for my own understanding and enjoyment and sharing is icing on the cake if of use to spners.

Appreciate comments or suggestions always.​​


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 19, 2011)

Sorry got a little carried away with Gender-bender logic in (http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-...hat-do-you-visualize-when-you.html#post158221).  

Point is that reality may be different than what we see and what we see may be different from the truth.  "Philosophically speaking"!

When one's mind starts to paint pictures from learning it is a unique experience/hallucination/visualization?  Whether worth anything or not, hard to say.  Perhaps helps us remember some of the thoughts on a sustained basis.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 19, 2011)

Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.



> Veer Tejwant Singh ji I do want to flag couple of things for consideration. When I read Gurbani I don't assume that it was written by Guru ji and put away to be published. I see in my mind Guru ji giving discourses, providing courage to the meek to think different, think aside from their existing religions pressures and doctrines



Well said & I totally agree. Interactions and discussions with all kinds of peoples were the main ingredients of the Sikhi recipe because the meek, the low caste, the outcast were not allowed to have any kind of dialogues with those who held the religious powers.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 19, 2011)

Ishna said:


> A fascinating topic, Ambarsaria bhaji (or uncle -- what's uncle in Punjabi??).
> 
> I chose 'other' because the visualisation changes depending on the mood.  Sometimes (and most usually) it's a soup... other times it's just a mind-blowing energy stretching from before time to after time... it's very hard to explain!


Ishna Bahin ji don't worry about uncles/aunts it becomes rigid to dialog.  Veer ji/Bha ji for male and Bhain ji (_I think some spell it like Pain ji  lol but I stand corrected_) for female I find very loving and non imposing or threatening.  As long as there is a Ji at the end (wonderful tradition at spn), all else works just fine too.  Well almost all else lol

What is the little beautiful looking thing you holding in your Avatar?  Appears held with love, or that is what I visualize mundahug.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Navdeep88 (Dec 20, 2011)

Ambarsaria Ji,

Probably the one with the light rays, except more concentrated, like one (Ik) center of light? Sorry, I guess that makes me kinda lazy, but it seems to be the most simple visualization. 

But the second option of :Universe of gases, lights and shapes so      slowly transforming, is very different and cool. 
[/FONT]


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## Harry Haller (Dec 20, 2011)

Ambarsariaji,

My imagination is quite vivid, I see planets all swirling through masses of space, shooting stars, giant mountains, I see myself from above, and then I pull back so that me becomes Essex, becomes the UK, becomes Europe, the world, the solar system, the universe, and then everything all swirling and growing and learning.

However, As Tejwantji might point out, I never learn anything, its just remarkable to be in wonder and awe of creation, however, sometimes we should all take a break now and then and visualise what it is we are learning to be part of, it may be nil in terms of new information, but it can be motivating to know in which direction your study is taking you


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## Ishna (Dec 20, 2011)

Ambarsaria said:


> Ishna Bahin ji don't worry about uncles/aunts it becomes rigid to dialog.  Veer ji/Bha ji for male and Bhain ji (_I think some spell it like Pain ji  lol but I stand corrected_) for female I find very loving and non imposing or threatening.  As long as there is a Ji at the end (wonderful tradition at spn), all else works just fine too.  Well almost all else lol
> 
> What is the little beautiful looking thing you holding in your Avatar?  Appears held with love, or that is what I visualize mundahug.
> 
> Sat Sri Akal.



Ok brother ji, you got it.

And don't thank me for the avatar, thank Google image search.  Not my hand (unfortunately!), but apparently the critter is a baby echidna (Aussie porcupine).

*sits on her off-topic hands before adminji slaps them*


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## Kanwaljit.Singh (Dec 20, 2011)

There is a pattern

http://www.freedmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/0815-sci-webSCIILLO1.jpg


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## bscheema (Dec 20, 2011)

what eye see closed or open ...its perishable . tangible ....i think* iko,ankar *is imperishable ,intangible ,,,....'',


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 20, 2011)

bscheema said:


> what eye see closed or open ...its perishable . tangible ....i think* iko,ankar *is imperishable ,intangible ,,,....'',


Got to be little careful veer ji.

What you think/know of Ik Onkaar is minisicule, what you do not think/know is infinite.

It hardly matter what you think or know in the overall scheme of things.  Gurbani is learning everyday and knowing a little bit more everyday.  This is called living Gurbani in my mind.  In my thinking if one does so, then one is on the right track.

So incremental learning and better incremental living based on this should be the never ending goal.

Just some thoughts.

What you think!

Sat Sri Akal.  mundahug


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## bscheema (Dec 21, 2011)

iko,ankar----->undying, immortal, eternal, indestructible, deathless, everlasting, incorruptible
                      impalpable, untouchable
 well i don't think ,  i believe in it ...
 its not about achieving or seeing something 

 sat shri akal ji


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 21, 2011)

bscheema said:


> iko,ankar----->undying, immortal, eternal, indestructible, deathless, everlasting, incorruptible
> impalpable, untouchable
> well i don't think ,  i believe in it ...
> its not about achieving or seeing something
> ...


bscheema ji thanks for your post.

Which part of In Oankaar you believe (believe may or may not be good!) in the following,






















Sat Sri Akal.


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Dec 21, 2011)

Harry Veer Ji For some reason since I read your post I'm visualizing you in the bath _mediating_ with God.But when you truly start to meditate ,you won't be able to change it into Dell ,because you yourself will ceast to exist,your wife could walk out on you or your bath fall through the earth and it should not disturb you,that is true meditation,what you are doing is your impression of meditation,it will achieve very little as you already know ,but one second of true meditation and nothing remains the same.


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 21, 2011)

Scarlet Pimpernel said:


> Harry Veer Ji For some reason since I read your post I'm visualizing you in the bath _mediating_ with God.But when you truly start to meditate ,you won't be able to change it into Dell ,because you yourself will ceast to exist,your wife could walk out on you or your bath fall through the earth and it should not disturb you,that is true meditation,what you are doing is your impression of meditation,it will achieve very little as you already know ,but one second of true meditation and nothing remains the same.


_sp veer ji are you talking a moment of enlightenment or a moment of unconsciousness?  Perhaps both are pretty close to each other. :interestedmunda:

_Sat Sri Akal.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Dec 21, 2011)

The SYMBOL needs to be visualised as GuR MOORAT(i)   and 
should be thought accordingly.

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Harry Haller (Dec 21, 2011)

Personally speaking I would rather mediate with God, rather than meditate on God. 

I find a discussion with the five thieves and Creators essence quite interesting and meaningful.....


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 21, 2011)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> The SYMBOL needs to be visualised as GuR MOORAT(i)   and
> should be thought accordingly.
> 
> Prakash.S.Bagga



Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Please help us visualise GuR MOORAT(i).  Share with us your personal visualisation so we can learn from it.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Kanwaljit.Singh (Dec 21, 2011)

Ambarsaria ji, I might be going a little off topic here, but WHAT ARE THOSE GOATS doing on that tree  (3rd pic)


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 21, 2011)

Kanwaljit Singh said:


> Ambarsaria ji, I might be going a little off topic here, but WHAT ARE THOSE GOATS doing on that tree  (3rd pic)


http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/interfaith-dialogues/37036-do-members-creation-really-need-humans.html

All with eyes basically check patterns against friend, foe or food.  I assume for us creator is friend.  Goats are just looking for foliage in area with little on the ground.  At least that is what I think mundahug but somehow done the reward - risk analysis.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Kanwaljit.Singh (Dec 21, 2011)

Hehe thts nice, I know some goats (mountain dwelling) are adept at climbing rocks, but this one is so kool. Maybe God is like a shape shifter? Some food for thought:

<TABLE cellSpacing=5><TBODY><TR><TD>

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਅਸਟਪਦੀ ॥ 


Ashtapadee: 



</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਜਬ ਅਕਾਰੁ ਇਹੁ ਕਛੁ ਨ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੇਤਾ ॥ 


When this world had not yet appeared in any form, 



</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਤਬ ਕਹ ਤੇ ਹੋਤਾ ॥ 


who then committed sins and performed good deeds? 



</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਜਬ ਧਾਰੀ ਆਪਨ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧਿ ॥ 


When the Lord Himself was in Profound Samaadhi, 



</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਤਬ ਬੈਰ ਬਿਰੋਧ ਕਿਸੁ ਸੰਗਿ ਕਮਾਤਿ ॥ 


then against whom were hate and jealousy directed? 



</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਜਬ ਇਸ ਕਾ ਬਰਨੁ ਚਿਹਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਪਤ ॥ 


When there was no color or shape to be seen, 



</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਤਬ ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਕਹੁ ਕਿਸਹਿ ਬਿਆਪਤ ॥ 


then who experienced joy and sorrow? 



</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਜਬ ਆਪਨ ਆਪ ਆਪਿ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ॥ 


When the Supreme Lord Himself was Himself All-in-all, 



</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਤਬ ਮੋਹ ਕਹਾ ਕਿਸੁ ਹੋਵਤ ਭਰਮ ॥ 


then where was emotional attachment, and who had doubts? 


<TABLE cellSpacing=5><TBODY><TR><TD>ਆਪਨ ਖੇਲੁ ਆਪਿ ਵਰਤੀਜਾ ॥ 


He Himself has staged His own drama; 



</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਨਾਨਕ ਕਰਨੈਹਾਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੧॥ 


O Guru Nanak, there is no other Creator. ||1|| 

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
PS: In a similar way I wonder if we could 'see' at the time the Universe had no shape, would that affect how we do visualize God?


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Dec 21, 2011)

Ambarsaria[I said:
			
		

> sp veer ji are you talking a moment of enlightenment or a moment of unconsciousness? [/I]]


 
Veer ji I think you may call it enlightenment or superconsciousness ,but never call it unconsciousness as that is our current mind state.


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 21, 2011)

Scarlet Pimpernel said:


> Veer ji I think you may call it enlightenment or superconsciousness ,but never call it unconsciousness as that is our current mind state.


sp veer ji you never miss much.  You missed an opportunity to close the loop.  The way I was paraphrasing I was thinking of "there is marginal distance between insanity and genius".

Ok I will redefine the uncoscious to super-conscious lol.  Would I be considered to be in samadhi, trance, sleep or plain old worn out or tired.

I like Harry veer jis way of discovery in a bath tub mundahug

When I Was in Shepherds Bush, UK with half a penny I could get enough hot water to take a quick bath.  How much are the Gas Meters now!

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 21, 2011)

Kanwaljit Singh said:


> Hehe thts nice, I know some goats (mountain dwelling) are adept at climbing rocks, but this one is so kool. Maybe God is like a shape shifter? Some food for thought:
> 
> 
> 
> PS: In a similar way I wonder if we could 'see' at the time the Universe had no shape, would that affect how we do visualize God?


Kanwaljit Singh veer ji when you are going to do your own translation.  I think you are very capable.  Please contribute to one of the sabads or other Gurbani.  It is very refreshing.

I have a hunch regarding visualizations.  It may be related to the capillary and venous system in the eye ball and the eyelid.  There are masses of minute vessels which may feel like a microcosm. 

Sat Sri Akal.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Dec 21, 2011)

> UK with half a penny I could get enough hot water to take a quick bath


Veer Ji Was the water really wet was it really hot and was it really quick? for what I meant was we are not as conscious as we think we are,it is mostly perception only.
Even Sheikh Farid was tired and worn out before he managed that state,love is essential to the samaadhi or saadna. Time for my sleep ,within a dream.


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 21, 2011)

Rendezvous with Interacting Galaxies Arp 273      - YouTube
The Sound Of Space!!! Weird...      - YouTube

Wow, talk about Gur Moorti that Prakash.S.Bagga ji suggested.  Definitely shortchanging the creator!  Our imagination is suffocated and limited only by us and us alone!

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Harry Haller (Dec 22, 2011)

Scarlet Pimpernel said:


> Veer ji I think you may call it enlightenment or superconsciousness ,but never call it unconsciousness as that is our current mind state.



SPji, 

I disagree (of course I do), unconsciousness is not what I would call our current state, as we are conscious enough to do plenty of damage instead of good. By focusing away from essence of Creator we are alive and we are dangerous. 

Given the circular nature of things I would say unconsciousness is closer to superconsciousness, and in the middle you have thief infested consciousness .

I know exactly how much a bath costs these days Ambarsariaji, well I do and I don't, if I am bathing, about 65p, but I have been known to run up a lot more if I am agitated.


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Dec 22, 2011)

> I know exactly how much a bath costs these days Ambarsariaji, well I do and I don't, if I am bathing, about 65p


Veer Ji is that the daily cost /weekly cost /monthly cost ,as I would like to be conscious of it when I take my annual bath.lol


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## BhagatSingh (Dec 22, 2011)

Harry ji,
Since when do circles have middles? 0


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 22, 2011)

BhagatSingh said:


> Harry ji,
> Since when do circles have middles? 0


Ever since we were able to draw one so perfect!  Sorry we cannot draw one.  No body can draw a perfect continuous circle.  It is an illusion due to lack of magnification.  :interestedmunda:.  Under ever increasing magnifications the imperfections will be shown.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## BhagatSingh (Dec 22, 2011)

Wait if we draw it perfectly then it has no middle. It only has a middle if it is a looped line.


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## ravneet_sb (May 8, 2019)

Sat Sri Akaal,

Ik O Ang Kaar.  

Means

Ik    One basic unit

O Ang. and  as whole Infinite Cosmos.

Kaar : manifestation/ creation done from one

Entire cosmos is formed from one

It make human s learn ONENESS of Nature and acceptance of universal laws (Hukam) applicable to all living and non living creation

*For example*

Ravneet's or any human *body and organs are formed from one cell* and *manifest as heart/ lungs/ skin etc. and organs of being* but has same unit cell in each organ.

This is concept, for UNIT as ONENESS of COSMOS.


SAT  The TRUTH    NAAM  Name and symbol given to realisation.

*For example*

Newton realised gravity but has not created, it was there before and after. After realisation Name Gravity and Symbol "g" was given.




Karta : One is Doer of Complete Cosmic Activity

Purakh     Pur  Complete Akh                Realisation of  Cosmic Activity.

Sampooran Darshan or Realisation






Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## Loveisthereason (May 10, 2019)

I visualise something reaching out to you/us.


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## Harry Haller (May 11, 2019)

I visualise cake


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (May 12, 2019)

Harry Haller said:


> I visualise cake


Cake is close, it’s a sweet-kind like Madeira ,what we must ask is how to communicate with a primal being that sound cannot reach as that requires air as a medium and as he’s in the Core of Costumed Cosmos it’s hard to hear.


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## Logical Sikh (May 12, 2019)

Scarlet Pimpernel said:


> Cake is close, it’s a sweet -kind of something that is good ,what we must ask is how to communicate with a primal being that sound cannot reach as that requires air as a medium and as he’s in the Core of Costumed Cosmos it’s hard to hear.


To communicate with god, 
Serve humanity. 
Fight social evils,
Again goodly virtues.


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## Harry Haller (May 16, 2019)

who said you have to communicate with God? In the absence of any definitive, any communication can only really be seen as our own internal desires manifesting themselves as communication, therefore, in my view, the only safe option is to accept that we do not receive communication. 

Personally I stay well clear of any person that claims communication, there is observation, for sure, I feel I am being observed constantly, although not judged, life is not a competition, we get out of it what we wish, some get a 'lifestyle', some get peace, some get understanding, or if you are a grade A {censored} like me, you are content with just knowing who you are, and what you are capable of, to me that is the gift of God, nothing else.


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## Harry Haller (May 16, 2019)

Logical Sikh said:


> To communicate with god,
> Serve humanity.
> Fight social evils,
> Again goodly virtues.



How do you know you are communicating with God?
Which humanity do you serve? There are so many different factions, so many variables, how can you serve them all without contradiction?
Which social evils? By its very essence social evils change with time, what is evil today, may be good tomorrow, what was good yesterday, is considered evil today
What is a goodly virtue? again, these change over the course of time, is compassion a goodly virtue, is tough love a goodly virtue, the truth is, what is a goodly virtue depends on the social mood of the world, the circumstance of the event, the ability to have some forward sight as to what our actions will spawn, and a million other changing variables, and even then, once learned, this cannot be imparted.


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## ravneet_sb (May 16, 2019)

Sat Sri Akaal,

Suniye  Listening 

Dukh Negative thinking

Paap  Kaam Krodh Lobh Moh Ahankaar Evil emotions born out of negative thinking

Ka Naas  Will Diminish  (negative thinking as source of evil emotion) 

Emotion has no physical correlation with physical world. One has doubt that evil emotion is caused by situations.

Doubt that wife husband children mother in law daughter in law son in law coleagues are cause of KRODH or other negative emotions 

by listening truth of own self awareness.

is  initiated to get resolved

One has a self check on emotions ie kaam krodh long moh ahankaar,  by check on own perception  and released harmones. And blame on others as mind doubt is checked by own self.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa
Waheguru ji ki Fateh


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## Harry Haller (May 16, 2019)

for checking, I read masking, hiding, suppressing......


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## ravneet_sb (May 16, 2019)

Harry Haller said:


> for checking, I read masking, hiding, suppressing......


Secrecy is also a tool for untamed emotions to prevent anger, insecurity  relation and save EGO, but it keeps fuelling.
"I"  can not resolve, we matters a lot. I can keep it  we cannot.
Bin bhagan Sat Sang na labhey, bin sangat mael bharejey jio. 
The way devoids inner silence.


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## Harry Haller (May 17, 2019)

Nothing in my life is a secret, when I am angry, I am angry, when I have felt lustful, I have been lustful, when I have been full of EGO, I have shown EGO, you are incorrect, it does not keep fuelling, boredom sets in, after a lifetime spent in honesty, the end result is that anger vanishes, lust vanishes, EGO vanishes, you are then left with nothing, which is what I have now, 

I would rather be nothing with a body full of scars, then live a lie, then live two lives, one within which is kept a secret, and one outward, which is merely a convenient persona. 

Its not that hard, you just have to be prepared to die trying. But it is a hell of a lot of fun if you can deal with the fear of death, shame and isolation.


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## ravneet_sb (May 17, 2019)

Secretive just a single word for masking hiding suppressing   
  as a Truth  for Expressing     
        Truth gives scars hardships and punishments. And a word of reality for bearance


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## ravneet_sb (May 20, 2019)

Harry Haller said:


> Nothing in my life is a secret, when I am angry, I am angry, when I have felt lustful, I have been lustful, when I have been full of EGO, I have shown EGO, you are incorrect, it does not keep fuelling, boredom sets in, after a lifetime spent in honesty, the end result is that anger vanishes, lust vanishes, EGO vanishes, you are then left with nothing, which is what I have now,
> 
> I would rather be nothing with a body full of scars, then live a lie, then live two lives, one within which is kept a secret, and one outward, which is merely a convenient persona.
> 
> Its not that hard, you just have to be prepared to die trying. But it is a hell of a lot of fun if you can deal with the fear of death, shame and isolation.


Sat Sri Akaal,

Once one perform action and speaks Truth get a scar there is more painful scenario  when one lead a Truthful Life still gets a blame due to egoist kingship and get hardships, scars, shame and isolation, and accept as a Hukam.  

This is what GURUs have faced, and they  say the fruits do not belongs to good or bad actions, but are Hukam, which one has to bear and there minds were neutral.


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## Commander Tako (May 23, 2019)

I don't Visualize anything. I don't have a visual imagination. I conceptualize abstract truth as embodied in the debate of the realism of Quantum Mechanics.


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## Harry Haller (May 24, 2019)

ravneet_sb said:


> Once one perform action and speaks Truth get a scar there is more painful scenario when one lead a Truthful Life still gets a blame due to egoist kingship and get hardships, scars, shame and isolation, and accept as a Hukam.



What is leading a truthful life? avoiding lies? or living lies to expose them and understand them fully? If you have never lived, how can you truly die? If we put 'do not cross' barriers along all the parts of life that we perceive as bad, or lies, or destructive, then we cut out a rich seam of life and education that we can only read about, or fear. God is everywhere, and Hukam is everything. 



ravneet_sb said:


> This is what GURUs have faced, and they say the fruits do not belongs to good or bad actions, but are Hukam, which one has to bear and there minds were neutral.


But we are not Gurus, in order to be neutral, or to be nothing, we have to experience everything


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## ravneet_sb (May 24, 2019)

Harry Haller said:


> What is leading a truthful life? avoiding lies? or living lies to expose them and understand them fully? If you have never lived, how can you truly die? If we put 'do not cross' barriers along all the parts of life that we perceive as bad, or lies, or destructive, then we cut out a rich seam of life and education that we can only read about, or fear. God is everywhere, and Hukam is everything.
> 
> 
> But we are not Gurus, in order to be neutral, or to be nothing, we have to experience everything


Sat Sri Akaal,  

One has the questions and answers too within self

All this is self exploration, what comes can be expressed,  what has come as a thought is shared, 

further how it comes to all can be shared, to dispel my ignorance.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## Harry Haller (May 24, 2019)

ravneet_sb said:


> One has the questions and answers too within self



true, but only truthful living exposes them to us



ravneet_sb said:


> All this is self exploration, what comes can be expressed, what has come as a thought is shared,


and should be lived, no matter what



ravneet_sb said:


> urther how it comes to all can be shared, to dispel my ignorance.


then live and experience fully


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## DharmicSoul (Mar 16, 2021)

Primordial vibration of awareness that expanded into everything!


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## swarn bains (Mar 17, 2021)

This is the best subject discussion i found on this site. i will put my two cents but today my mind is not here. thanks all.


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## Ram_Muni (Mar 18, 2021)

For me as a Ram Bhakt meditating on the formless Ik Onkar I think only of only Ram Ram "Ram Naam" . I also like to meditate on the form Ik Onkar; however the best explanation I have for that meditation is the Ras Tafari concept of "_I and I"_ an expression to totalize the concept of oneness. Ex. there is no you and me, there is only I and I. When combining the form and formless in meditation I recognize that I am Ram and "you"I are Ram, Ram Ram.




Harry Haller said:


> Personally I stay well clear of any person that claims communication





Harry Haller said:


> God is everywhere



I just want to know if you consider "communication with god" to be an idea of talking to the man up stairs, to put it in a crude way? Like you say God is everywhere, so can it not be you speak with God daily.



Harry Haller said:


> Which humanity do you serve? There are so many different factions, so many variables, how can you serve them all without contradiction?



I love how children are blind to the very contradictions "wise" men are blinded by. With a Childs mind such contradictions fade away, as they are purely logical contradictions and not practical ones.



Harry Haller said:


> Which social evils? By its very essence social evils change with time, what is evil today, may be good tomorrow, what was good yesterday, is considered evil today
> What is a goodly virtue? again, these change over the course of time, is compassion a goodly virtue, is tough love a goodly virtue, the truth is, what is a goodly virtue depends on the social mood of the world, the circumstance of the event, the ability to have some forward sight as to what our actions will spawn, and a million other changing variables, and even then, once learned, this cannot be imparted.



Humm let me start by saying that I believe all people to be my Brothers or sisters. Our relation goes beyond the bounds set by kinship "blood". Each of us is a child of God and so i say brother or sister in this way.

The concepts of ethics my change according to such variables stated. Ethics is just another attempt to corrupt our understanding of truth here in Kali yuga. The morals of Satya yuga are forgotten. We have forgotten what is beseeming and what is no not beseeming of us, as children of God. We allow others to divide us then we place faith in that division.


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## ravneet_sb (Mar 19, 2021)

Ram_Muni said:


> For me as a Ram Bhakt meditating on the formless Ik Onkar I think only of only Ram Ram "Ram Naam" . I also like to meditate on the form Ik Onkar; however the best explanation I have for that meditation is the Ras Tafari concept of "_I and I"_ an expression to totalize the concept of oneness. Ex. there is no you and me, there is only I and I. When combining the form and formless in meditation I recognize that I am Ram and "you"I are Ram, Ram Ram.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sat Sri Akaal,

Ek  ONE primordial energy
O Àng Kar.  As a unit manifested in all creation

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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