# Sehajdari Sikhs As SGPC Voters



## Neutral Singh (Feb 12, 2005)

Most of the Sikhs think that perhaps the sehajdhari sikhs were made voters for sgpc elections in Punjab Sikh Gurdawaras act 1925 but it is not so. In this act there was no mention of sehajdhari sikhs and to make them as voters.It was in 1959 that amendment was made in the act to make sehajdhari sikhs as voters. Akali leaders made allegations that it was so done to make non Sikhs as voters by the then congress govt.to take over the control of sikh gurdawaras as the over whelming majority of Sikhs were with Akali dal. There was confrontation between Akali dal and the govt.on the reorganization of Punjab on linguistic basis.In the elections of sgpc held in 1960,Akali dal won 136 seats out of 140 while congress sponsered board could get only 4 seats.Thereafter Akali dal won sgpc elections uptill now and retained its control over it. The amended provision was not exploited and neither it could be so done. Sgpc passed resolutions several times to repeal the 1959 amendment but it was not so done. Just before the 2004 sgpc elections this amendment was undone by govt.of India and sehajdhari sikhs were deprived of the right to be the voters for sgpc elections. Now no sehajdhari sikh can 
become voter for sgpc elections.


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??*

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh.

This "sehajdharee" phenomenon is unique to Sikhs only. There are no "sehajdharee" muslims/christians/hindus/jews etc etc. You are either a Muslim or you are NOT. No two ways about it.

Secondly I have yet to meet an EX-MUSLIM....still claiming to be a "muslim". Once they are OUT..they are out for good....but not Sikhs...they may not be sikh at all..BUT they Never let go of the "right" to be "Sikh"..and hence we have sehajdharee sikhs....the slow learners, the late bloomers ???? There sure is something in Sikhi that attracts people even if they cant be perfect full fledged Sikhs..they still want to be identified as sikhs...

I personally know a few friends, who literally know Guru granth ji "backwards and forwards", they can quote verabtim from rehatnamas, Bhai gurdass Ji varaan kabits, Bhai nand Lal Goyas writings...they can do wonderful kirtan, they do nitnem, naam abhiyaas...BUT they CANT/WONT keep HAIR/DASTAAR. Sau hath rassa Sireh te ganddh..when it comes to KESH...they Fizzle out. ?? I am as puzzled as anyone else.


Jarnail Singh


----------



## amrit (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??*

http://www.amritworld.com/rahatnama_bhai_chaupasingh_ik_adhiyain/sahajdhari.pdf


----------



## Neutral Singh (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??*

Armit Pal Singh "Amrit" Ji, thanks a lot of sharing your treasure of abundant sikh historical information with us. 

Warmest Regards


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 13, 2005)

*Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??*

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki fateh.

Veer AmritPal Singh ji Amrit has done a commendable job writing up this original article on sehajdharees. Thank you veer Ji.

I really love the "sweet" language veer Ji uses..so full of pyaar...looks like veer ji has imbibed a lot of values from gurbani and Gurmatt. may Waheguru Ji Bless Him with the Best of Health to continue this wonderful parchaar. we are indeed lucky.

Love for all

jarnail Singh


----------



## amrit (Feb 13, 2005)

*Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??*

Dear Veer Aman singh Ji and Veer Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji, it is your bigheartedness, otherwise I am nothing. Thank you very much.


----------



## Bhai Harbans Lal (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??*

The title of this thread is misleading. It only talks about voting in the SGPC elections.Therefore, it should be titled as "Sehajdhari Sikhs as SGPC Voters."

 History of Sehajdhari Sikhs will reveal that Sehajdhari Sikhs have been part and parcel of the Panth since the times of the Gurus. They participated in the panthic activities as full members throughout the Sikh history. A lot has been written about their contributions to the Panth. I will be happy to provide references on request.

 (Bhai0 Harbans Lal


----------



## Arvind (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??*



			
				guru said:
			
		

> I will be happy to provide references on request.


YES, Please 

Best Regards.


----------



## Veeru (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??*



Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> This "sehajdharee" phenomenon is unique to Sikhs only. There are no "sehajdharee" muslims/christians/hindus/jews etc etc. You are either a Muslim or you are NOT. No two ways about it.
> 
> Jarnail Singh


 
Giyani ji,

Have you ever found a complete Sikh? If so, please describe why s/he was complete, not a per your own perception of a Sikh, instead as per Gurbani of Guru Granth Sahib. 

Nobody can become spiritual Sikh, to fit the definition of a Sikh as per Guru Granth Sahib, overnight. Therefore technically all people, who claim to be Sikhs, are sehajdhari. 

But since sehajdhari refers to someone who seeks Amrit but are taking their time, those who do not seek Amrit can not be called Sehajdhari but simply Sikhs, especially if they fit the definition of a Sikh as per Guru Granth Sahib.


----------



## CaliforniaSeeker (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??*



Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> This "sehajdharee" phenomenon is unique to Sikhs only. There are no "sehajdharee" muslims/christians/hindus/jews etc etc.



There is no such thing as a "sehajdhari" jew, true. However, there are many different "kinds" of jews -- orthodox vs. reform is only the first distinction that comes to mind. There are different "kinds" of Christians -- Catholic, Episcopalian, foot-washing Baptist, Mormon (and some people argue about whether Mormons are actually Christians), Quaker, etc.

To the best of my knowledge, Sikhi hasn't had a reform movement like Judaism or a protestant movement like Christianity; it also hasn't split into the myriad of denominations and sects that Christianity has. Sikhi is often presented (in discussions like this one) as an all-or-nothing faith: Either you've taken amrit, wear the 5 Ks, and are a "real" Sikh, or you don't keep kesh and thus are no kind of Sikh at all.

This issue comes up everywhere Sikhi exists, but the discussion doesn't seem to go anywhere. On one side are the people who say "the 5 Ks are external symbols, and that's not what's important about Nanak ji's teachings"; on the other side are the people who say "Gobind Singh ji told Sikhs to wear the 5 Ks, and that should be enough for anybody."

As a newcomer to Sikhi, it's not my place to say "you need to do this" or "you should change that". What I will say is that in my experience, opening topics up for respectful discussion and debate is almost never a bad thing to do.


----------



## roopsidhu (Dec 5, 2006)

First of all its most important to establish a definition of the sikh based on  Jugo Jug Atal SGGS jI ( not based on rehatnamas). Then only we will be able to see that who is the sikh and who is not. when we will start following SGGS ji then sikh will only be sikh, no further classifications will be there.
bhul chuk maaf


----------



## Archived_Member_19 (Dec 6, 2006)

thanks CS ji and roopsidhu ji

atlast i have a chance to discuss with few who understand the view points of difference between structured "religion" and personal "spiritual beliefs"

CS ji , your point on a comparative study with various forms/denominations of Christianity and teachings of Christ are correct correlation to what is happening today in terms of teachings of Guru Nanak and SGGS and "SIKHISM"

Religion - in my understanding , has multiple aspects or levels if i may seek to say,

at a  personal level it is the "spiritual beliefs".. these are the ones which connect directly to the "chosen path" for union with "God"
This is also the inner "code of conduct" or conscience.

at a external or Society  facing level - it is representation of beliefs in external symbols.. hindu beliefs of murti pooja, wearing a cross etc are examples of this... this is a stage when person wants to declare and share his internal beliefs with external world.... also..it gives physical or worldly aspect or form to the inner thought processes...

At  society level , religion becomes the way of proper conduct, rehatnamas, marriage ceremony, hindu yagnas, going to mass, mosque, celebrating festivals, etc are examples of the same. This is the level which people generally percieve as "RELIGION" and a parameter to judge religious-ness of a person.
this stage has minimal to do with spirituality..but works more on human nature of security in inclusion and esteem associated with being "religious"


there is another form.. which has nothing to do with spirituality.. this is a the Religion as a Diktat or theocracy. When "religious" rules drive everything material around a person.


in my understanding,
SGPC was constituted to manage the "SIKH" shrines..

now let us go back to the days when gurudwaras were set up..

their primary purpose was community involvement.. it was a place for like minded people to come and share views, listen to Guru's thoughts, discuss and help themselves in their spiritual quest.

for what they are being percieved currently is a larger issue and slightly out of context...

who all are invited.. everyone !!!........all right..?

 so all of the humanity is a stakeholder..theoretically... but those who are msot active are major stakeholders.....

i hope you all would agree....

now in eyes of Gurus and God, all human beings are one and same... pupils...

its only our defined "codes" which seperate the pupils..


 so think in the specific case of managing the gurudwaras.. the rules of SGPC go against the Guru's message of equality of humanity...

if this issue of only amritdharis managing SGPC and indirectly the gurudwaras is not stopped..

i am afraid we might see a few years down the line... Mormon Sikhs, "presbeysterian Sikhs", "Jehovah's Witness Sikhs"... and many many more.....

because...it is natural for a human.. due to his/her infalliable nature...to look for all the levels of religion....

it is a natural progression...though not rigid... for a person in his spiritual quest....

many skip some levels...lucky ones....some take time to reach the personal level...but that is the level we all should seek...that is the only level of a "sikh" defined in SGGS.. in my humble opinion...

bhul chuk maaf...

peace


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 6, 2006)

Gurfateh

There has to be differnce between Patit and Sahij Dhari.


----------



## Veeru (Dec 6, 2006)

vijaydeep Singh said:


> Gurfateh
> 
> There has to be differnce between Patit and Sahij Dhari.


 
Anybody who commits sin, whether he is an Amritdhari or mona or simply a turbanned Sikh or a non-Sikh, is a patit and those who don't commit sins are not patit


----------



## Archived_Member_19 (Dec 6, 2006)

<There has to be differnce between Patit and Sahij Dhari.>

who are we to call anyone patit.. ?

God alone is the righteous judge.

PCJS ji

who are we to evaluate anyone's sins ???

are we good enough ?


----------



## Veeru (Dec 7, 2006)

amarsanghera said:


> <There has to be differnce between Patit and Sahij Dhari.>
> 
> who are we to call anyone patit.. ?
> 
> ...


 
This was simply to advise whoever refers to mona as Patit meaning sinner that anybody, whether s/he is mona, amritdhari, sikh or non-sikh, who commits is a Patit. Usually Amritdharis take it for granted that for some reason they have right to call others patits. For some reason, some people don't realize that this develops ego.


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Dec 9, 2006)

PATIT is one who commits ONE of the FOUR Bajjar Kurehits listed in the Sikh Rehat Maryada.
Only an "Amrtidharee" can become a PATIT.....if he/she commits one or More of the Four Bajjar kurehits.
The Four bajjar kurehits are:
1. Cutting/removing/dishonouring KESH (hair)
2. Eating Hallal Meat
3.Consuming Tobacco and other intoxicants/drugs
4. Cohabiting someone NOT your spouse.(Adultery)

Once an Artidharee commits one or more of these, he/she must pesh before the Sangat of Panj and confess the sin, serve out the tankhaha and rechhak Khande Batteh dee Pahul once more.

A person who is NOT an Amrtidharee therefore cannot be a Patit. He she is just a "Non_amritdharee".

Gyani jarnail Singh


----------



## Tejwant Singh (Dec 9, 2006)

Sehaj in Sehajdhari is not the same as to attain Sehaj- Gurmat Fulcrum- the prefect balance in the MIRI PIRI way of life.

Sehaj in Sehajdhari means one who is slow to comply. This phrase was coined after Amrit Sanchar in 1699 as not all Sikhs were then ready to take Khandei de Pahul, hoping that all those who have not complied, would in a near future, which they refused and now unfortunately it has become a title for those who refuse to have a Sikhi baana but claim to keep the Sikhi rehat. Little are they aware that Sikhi is not about any title nor about any destination but just about the journey.

Some of the Sehajdharis also claim to love and respect our first nine Gurus but are very reluctant to accept Guru Gobind Singh ji. It is like loving the roots of the tree but rejecting its fruit. True love towards anyone or anything is to comply with what love demands and is worth changing for.

Is this a paradox or oxy{censored}ic, it's only for the seekers to decide.

Tejwant


----------



## Veeru (Dec 9, 2006)

VaheguruSeekr said:


> It is like loving the roots of the tree but rejecting its fruit.
> Tejwant


 
Why would you compare Sikhi of first nine gurus to tree and then Amrit to the fruit?


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Dec 10, 2006)

PCJS said:


> Why would you compare Sikhi of first nine gurus to tree and then Amrit to the fruit?


gurmukh paiyare tejwant ji,
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

i too agree with the tree/fruit analogy. imho Guur nanak ji planted the "seed"...the other Gurus continued....and this tree bore the fruit of Khandeh Batte dee Pahul. All trees look simialr...only  a look at its FRUIT will show us that it is  a Mango tree..Coconut tree..apple tree etc. It doesnt mean neglecting/downgrading the earlier gurus..as in "tree/roots' vs "fruit" etc...no part of a tree is superflous or less important than the others..all work together.

The Symbolism of a TREE is mentioned several times in GURBANI....Akal Purakh is like a TREE..giver of shade and coolness..
Gyani jarnail singh


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Dec 10, 2006)

sehajdharees are like those who prefer to "repeat" the same class year in a nd year out....and NEVER GRADUATE !!! i am sure many of us would ahve seen such "characters" made fun of in movies about college students....the Main "fool" would be the one who is perpetually in First Year...while those who joined him years ago are now his Professors..That is a SEHAJDHAREE for you. 

Gyani jarnail Singh


----------



## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 10, 2006)

Gurfateh

If we see from the eye of socail scintist,not with any bias of being Sikh.Then as other non Sikhs have praised Sikhs for such things,we may say that this faith is evovlved with time.

so may be advance then other faiths.

So unlike in other faiths,here we are given a sort of probation to one who want to convert and if they pass as our Gyani Sahib Ji have said,they are in else out.

Das saw another thing.Hindus enroute to Panth could be Sahijdhair(Dhar is to have and Dharam is something havable).While if we read Rahit Nammah Bhai Daya Singh Ji Mazhabi is not the caste but sort of Muslims in state similar to Sahijdhari.And say Muslim versiomn of Sahijdhari.Maybe due to accomadtiing the differnt path for potential  converts to ture faith based upon ther background faith/native faith.


----------



## Veeru (Dec 10, 2006)

Giyani Ji,

Two questions:

1. What effect does eating the fruit have on people and does it have the same effect on all?

2. You are comparing a Sehajdhari to someone who never graduates. May I ask what exactly graduating means to you and in Sikhi and if you have graduated?


----------



## ISDhillon (Dec 10, 2006)

Another interesting fact is that you cannot claim to believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji when you only believe in the first nine gurus because only the 10th guru gave gurgaddi to the SGGS, then how can you believe in partial authority of the 10th guru? - its simple to suit your own lifestyle and protect your ego, however it is true to say that in sikhism amrit is the ideal but it does not mean spirituality is not attainable through non-sikh means, this must be accepted.  People should take amrit cos they want that roop and for no other reason.  Sehajdharis are also people who would not give their head for their guru- that is not necessarily a bad thing cos amrit was a choice.  Its time for people to be honest.


----------



## Archived_Member_19 (Dec 11, 2006)

<Sehajdharis are also people who would not give their head for their guru- that is not necessarily a bad thing cos amrit was a choice. Its time for people to be honest.>

thanks Dhillon ji


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Dec 11, 2006)

PCJS said:


> Giyani Ji,
> 
> Two questions:
> 
> ...


dear PCJS ji,
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.
1. eating of the fruit has a different effect on different people..no two are the same.
2. Khandeh batte dee Pahul (Amrit of khandabattah) is the IDEAL..all Sikhs aim for. Some attain it..other dont..some want it..others claim it is superflous. It is NOT the FINAL beall-endall... its actually the BEGINNING of a long and ardous journey...Walon Nikee Khandeaohn Tikhee..thinner than a strand of hair and sharper than a sword blade is the PATH of the Khalsa after he takes Pahul..one graduates when one merges with Waheguru..i am still a LONG long way...off many Galaxies away to be precise !!!
Hope this clarifies..
Warm regards
Gyani jarnail Singh


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Dec 11, 2006)

ISDhillon said:


> Another interesting fact is that you cannot claim to believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji when you only believe in the first nine gurus because only the 10th guru gave gurgaddi to the SGGS, then how can you believe in partial authority of the 10th guru? - its simple to suit your own lifestyle and protect your ego, however it is true to say that in sikhism amrit is the ideal but it does not mean spirituality is not attainable through non-sikh means, this must be accepted.  People should take amrit cos they want that roop and for no other reason.  Sehajdharis are also people who would not give their head for their guru- that is not necessarily a bad thing cos amrit was a choice.  Its time for people to be honest.


absolutley....up to Guru teg bahadur Ji..it is simply the "aad Granth"... Pothi Sahib...only after 1708 Gurgadhee bestowed by Guur Gobind Singh ji, in the Tabiah of the Panj Khalsa did the Granth transform into the Living eternal Shabad Guru. *The PANJ cannot prepare Khandeh batteh dee Pahul WITHOUT the presence of* *SGGS.. Conclusion: Khalsa is NOT Khalsa without the SGGS..and SGGS is NOT the Guru without Guru Gobind Singh Ji.*
*G*yani jarnail Singh


----------



## Veeru (Dec 11, 2006)

Giyaani Ji,

Thank you very much for the further elaboration.

1. Since the fruit has different effect on people, could it be possible that the taste of fruit depends on individual's own taste bud? In other words, what people obtain from taking amrit is depends on their own personality anyways. 

2. You mentioned in your previous post that Sehajdharis are those who never graduate. But the literal meaning of Sehajdhari is a slow adapter - the one who takes his/her time to get to his/her destination. Since you have admitted sir that you have not graduated, are you saying you are also a Sehajdhari, at least for now?

This isn't true that we wouldn't fight or give our head for truth. Truth is above all.

Taking Guru Granth Sahib as guru is a personal choice. Guru Granth Sahib has baani of all those greatest gurus and bhagats. Guru Granth Sahib probably covers everything a guru could teach and would have been a great guru even if Guru Gobind Singh Ji didn't appoint Guru Granth Sahib as guru.


----------



## ISDhillon (Dec 11, 2006)

I have a personal interest in the un security council but there is no chance that i could personally cast a vetoe or vote for one of their international security decisions, in the same way only panthic members have the rights to vote for the running of panthic istitutions.  For now i will admire the un security council from a distance in the full knowledge that i am not a valid voting institution or deciding member and i will respect the fact that it is not an attack on me personally, in such humility i will move on with my life.


----------



## Tejwant Singh (Dec 11, 2006)

I think the confusion lies in the definition of Sehajdhari. Sehajdhari according to the article and as an accepted term is for a person who doesnot wear Sikhi Baana and is clean shaven. This is nothing to do with a person who wears the Baana but has not taken Khandei de Pahul yet. It is more about the Sikh identity then which milestone he or she is at.

PCJS writes:



> Why would you compare Sikhi of first nine gurus to tree and then Amrit to the fruit?


 
Dear PCJS,

Guru Fateh.

The above metaphor is used to show that lots of us do not embrace something as a whole the way it is meant to be but p{censored} it due to our own self created justifications.

Tejwant


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Dec 12, 2006)

sehajdharee exists only in Sikhism...why ??
Other religions have terms as "practising and non-Practising"
A clean shaven person not wearing sikh bana etc would be a NON-Practising sikh !!
2. Then we have a different angle to the word "non-practsiing"...such as a Lawyer having a LLB degree but "not-Practising" due to various reasons ( He is QUALIFIED to practise law but doesnt do it) but this defination cnanot apply to a clean shaven non bana sikh..SUCH a "sikh" is NOT QUALIFIED to be a sikh but calls himself "nonpractising" ?? akin to a "nonpractisiing airline pilot/marine/navy captain...who hasnt seen the inside of an airplane, never attended marine school and doesnt know one end of a boat from the other !!but still says: I am non-practsing pilot/marine/captain !! self delusion !!
Gyani jarnail singh


----------



## Veeru (Dec 12, 2006)

Vaheguru Seeker ji,

It isn't alot of some, none of us embrace Sikhi as a whole. Had we done so, we would have become one with God. So until we reach that point of being one with God, it's useless to point at others that they aren't perfect.

Giyani Ji,

1. These terms like Sehajdhari or Patit are man-made terms. My assumption is someone in SGPC came up with these terms. I don't believe any of the gurus ever called anybody Sehajdhari or Patit. It's actually offensive that some people refers to others using these terms. I am what I prefer myself to be known as. Nobody has right to refer to me using their home-made terms. Humilty is important in Sikhi. Referring to others with these terms doesn't show any humilty. 

Sikhi isn't just another religion. It might be allowed in other religion. But someone who uses any man-made offensive terms to refer to someone can't be a Sikh...

2. Do you really think it makes sense to compare a Sikh to a lawyer or pilot, where specialized training is needed? Being Sikh is more of a spiritual training than anything else. Whatever makes us spiritually wise is what Sikhi is...


----------



## Bhai Harbans Lal (May 25, 2007)

All Sikhs are urged to follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Not many can follow all the teachings, most who claim to be Sikhs make honest attempts to follow as much as they can. We pray that Guru bless all of us with strength to follow what he outlined for us. Even Guru Arjan called himself a half Sikh. Finding faults with others is not a productive attitude. Guru loves all, no one has a right to disqualify any one from Sikhee.

Bhai Harabns Lal


----------



## Bhai Harbans Lal (May 25, 2007)

*Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??*

For Amar Singh ji,

Please send me a hard copy of your article on Sehajdhari Sikhs in writings of Chaupa Singh.
thanks
Harbans Lal


----------



## spnadmin (May 25, 2007)

*Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??*

Bhai ji

You may have to send Amar a private message. He may not realize your request because he posted in this thread some time ago. There is this article however. And there are others I can send you if you wish.

Chaupa Singh Rahit-nama

I must confess that after following up several of the leads and ideas in this thread I am more confused than ever as to whether I am a Sikh, will ever be a Sikh, can realistically expect to be a Sikh, or when it would happen that I am a Sikh. The news articles from 2003 about the voting rights of Sehajdhari make it clear that agreed-upon definitions are hard to come by. And other information from religious sources suggests that even being amrithari may not be definitive. 

So what can a person do? Continue to revere Waheguru-- that is all I can do.

Many thanks for your perceptive comments and questions.


----------



## harbansj24 (Jul 25, 2007)

Any person who beleives in  and practices Sikhism should ultimately aim to be complete Sikh along with the external symbols. It may take him a while to achieve this objective but he must continuosly endeavor to be on that path. He must be respectful to the Sikh Gurus and to Guru Granth Sahib and not say or do anything that lowers their dignity. He can ask questions with an intent to gain knowledge but not with disrespectful intentions.

Their are any number of persons on this path especially Sindhis and Multanis and many have ultimately adopted compete Sikhi and taken Amrit.
Bhai Chamanjeet Singh ji Lal (earlier Bhai Chamanlal) is a shining example of the same.

Harbans


----------



## harbansj24 (Jun 29, 2009)

Guru Gobind Singh ji firmly institutionalized Sikh religion by giving it the external manifestations. That was the starting point by which Sikhs could confidently say that "Hum Hindu nahin hai!" The setting up of the instituition of Khalsa has been by and large resented bythe non Sikh population of India because now calling the Sikhs as sect of Hiduism was becoming untenable.

This year the Sikh educational instituitions had issued strict instructions that only those persons who kept complete kesh could claim admission under ther Sikh quota. Even girls who plucked their eyebrows were not admitted under this quota. This was challenged in Punjab and Haryana High court. After prolonged and detailed arguments, the court upheld the contention of the institutes.

There is no doubt that many Sehajdari Sikhs have worked very hard and contributed a lot to spreading the message of gurus. But a majority are equally devoted to Hindu Philosophy as well. So they follow dual religions. But when it comes to declaring their religion in official govt. documents many prefer to call themselves as Hindus. The Sindhis in particular do not celebrate Guru Gobind Singh jis Gurupurab.

Whenever we talk about Sikhs, the immediate impression that comes to mind is that of turbaned man supporting unshorn hair and beard. So let it remain that way.

Sikh religion is devoted to spreading the message of the great Gurus. It is not in the business of actively seeking conversions to its faith. This is purely voluntary. So it welcomes all irrespective of their religion or caste to imbibe the Gurus phlosophies into their lives so that they become good human beings irrespective whether they are Sikhs or not.

However to be called a Sikh, one must be devoted only to Guru Granth Sahib and have the external manifestations of Sikh.

This is my humble view and uncomplicated view. I do not have the talent or ability for a learned debate on the subject.


----------



## tony (Jun 29, 2009)

the term practising and nonpractising Sikhs needs to be defined better, is a practising Sikh just someone who wears the five K's, I have been to the gudwara and many of the sikhs there where hair cutters, no turban, does this mean that they arent practising Sikhs. The Amrit Sikhs insist they are doing it right and insist on quoting the tenth Guru ji as the fruit of the other nine, when in actual fact the real fruit as per the tenth Guru ji is the SGGS ji the eleven and final Guru ji, Was it not Guru Gobind Singh ji who said that the SGGS ji was the eternal Guru and that it governed all spiritual matters and that the Akal Takhat was for all none spiritual matters. So I lead my life as per the orders of Guru Gobind Singh ji and follow the SGGS ji. No mention of five K's or the need of a dastaar in there for my spirituality, so I guess that by the definition of other judging Sikhs I'm a non practising Sikh. And it appears that those who have the Sikh external image ajudge themselves better than I, I live my life according to the eternal Guru the true fruit of the preceding ten, if Amrit and the five K's are the fruit then it isnt ripe as it is these Sikh who judge themselves better than others, Wear your Dastaar with pride, look like the rich and holy, judge me all you like, You have your image,  your fruit, I am humble enough to accept you are more a Sikh than I. When Guru Nanak ji gave the turban it was to symbolise equality and now the turban wearers think that they are better, Looks to me that the Amrit Sikhs are becoming very westernised in the fact that image is every thing. Back to page one of SGGS ji for me must of misunderstood the meaning of equality and how image affects spirituality, Pity no ones invented a time machine we could go back and asks the Guru jis for the answer to this question, till they do we can either follow whats actually written by the Guru jis or what we think they may have written or said, Practising or non practising whos right whos wrong we'll never know till its to late will we
Love for all 
Tony
No intention to offend just saying as i see it, Sorry


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 29, 2009)

tony said:


> the term practising and nonpractising Sikhs needs to be defined better, is a practising Sikh just someone who wears the five K's, I have been to the gudwara and many of the sikhs there where hair cutters, no turban, does this mean that they arent practising Sikhs. The Amrit Sikhs insist they are doing it right and insist on quoting the tenth Guru ji as the fruit of the other nine, when in actual fact the real fruit as per the tenth Guru ji is the SGGS ji the eleven and final Guru ji, Was it not Guru Gobind Singh ji who said that the SGGS ji was the eternal Guru and that it governed all spiritual matters and that the Akal Takhat was for all none spiritual matters. So I lead my life as per the orders of Guru Gobind Singh ji and follow the SGGS ji. No mention of five K's or the need of a dastaar in there for my spirituality, so I guess that by the definition of other judging Sikhs I'm a non practising Sikh. And it appears that those who have the Sikh external image ajudge themselves better than I, I live my life according to the eternal Guru the true fruit of the preceding ten, if Amrit and the five K's are the fruit then it isnt ripe as it is these Sikh who judge themselves better than others, Wear your Dastaar with pride, look like the rich and holy, judge me all you like, You have your image,  your fruit, I am humble enough to accept you are more a Sikh than I. When Guru Nanak ji gave the turban it was to symbolise equality and now the turban wearers think that they are better, Looks to me that the Amrit Sikhs are becoming very westernised in the fact that image is every thing. Back to page one of SGGS ji for me must of misunderstood the meaning of equality and how image affects spirituality, Pity no ones invented a time machine we could go back and asks the Guru jis for the answer to this question, till they do we can either follow whats actually written by the Guru jis or what we think they may have written or said, Practising or non practising whos right whos wrong we'll never know till its to late will we
> Love for all
> Tony
> No intention to offend just saying as i see it, Sorry



Tony Ji, unfortunately too many taliban types of closed minds abound...holier than thou types ( BOTH..clean shaven  and amrtidharee groups have these Talibans/closed minds). No sense of give and take..forgiveness, humility...acceptance..... instead of tolerance. I have nothing against a sikh who wants to remain a kindergarten student all his life and die in kindergarten..and similarly have not much respect for a bhekhi sikh who wears his kakaars on his sleeve either...SIKHI IS PRACTICAL GURBANI...not theory.


----------



## tony (Jun 29, 2009)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> sehajdharee exists only in Sikhism...why ??
> Other religions have terms as "practising and non-Practising"
> A clean shaven person not wearing sikh bana etc would be a NON-Practising sikh !!
> 2. Then we have a different angle to the word "non-practsiing"...such as a Lawyer having a LLB degree but "not-Practising" due to various reasons ( He is QUALIFIED to practise law but doesnt do it) but this defination cnanot apply to a clean shaven non bana sikh..SUCH a "sikh" is NOT QUALIFIED to be a sikh but calls himself "nonpractising" ?? akin to a "nonpractisiing airline pilot/marine/navy captain...who hasnt seen the inside of an airplane, never attended marine school and doesnt know one end of a boat from the other !!but still says: I am non-practsing pilot/marine/captain !! self delusion !!
> Gyani jarnail singh


 Gyani ji
Could you tell me where you got your qualifications in Sikhi, what course did you take and what was the examining board.
Have you ever to seen inside heavens gates.
Does having the Five K's make you fully experienced and qualified to be a Sikh, in which case i've seen some fully qualified five year olds, who cant even read yet, Doesnt add much wieght to the qualification does it, 
You have posted while i was writing this responce Gyani ji and say "you have nothing against someone who wishes to stay in kindergarten all his life and say similarly you have no respect for the Sikh who wears his Five K's on his sleave", does this mean you have no respect for the non bana wearing kindergarten Sikh, just wondering as I find this lack of respect very anti sikhi, Could it be that you are superiour to me, a better sikh may be, Delusions of grandieur spring to mind
Tony


----------



## tony (Jun 29, 2009)

Gyani ji
one other thing when does one get out of kindergarten and graduate, as graduation implies you are fully knowledgable about a subject and only need to gain practical experience, what is practical Gurbani, I thought is was the demonstrating of whats written in the SGGS, yet some of your posts on this subject seem to lack the equality aspect and the humility all are better aspect of the SGGS, May be you have graduated to quickly or maybe you have forgottenthe basic's, come back to kindergarten all are welcome and we can learn together.
Tony


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 29, 2009)

Tony Ji..
I havent graduated at all..in fact although i began to "practise" gurmatt at a very early age..( being born in a tenth generation Staunch Sikh/Amrtidharee family)..and practised LIVING GURBANI from school going age..I only deemed myslef fit to be admitted to KHALSA at age 55+..a little over 5 years ago...so as an Amrtidharee I am only 5..while as an Akhand Pathee/Gurbani Teacher/religious instructor/Punjabi language teacher etc i am more than 35 years experience...so as a 5 year old i am still in kindergarten.
I MADE the Conscious decision to take Khandey batte dee Pahul..after having read and vichareed the SGGS for more than 35 years...under very able teachers, my parents, and having studied for the Gyani Course at Punajb Uni Chandigarh in the early 1970s..so YES I ahve travelled along this road for a long time...and am still travelling...you a re welcome to be my fellow traveller...from Kindergarten to University Grad is a FAR OFF process...i have just begun my journey...


----------



## tony (Jun 29, 2009)

Thank you Gyani ji it would be my pleasure in joining you. Must remind you though I'm some thirty odd yrs behind you in experience and still struggling to learn panjabi, I have no able teachers just the SGGS as my guide, please be patient and I might just make it out of kindergarten. 
Tony


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 29, 2009)

Tony Ji,
NO Problems..we BOTH catch hold of GURU JIS little finger...just DONT LET GO. HE LEADS..we follow..unflinching..unquestioningly..in LOVE.


----------



## prabhsmart (Aug 2, 2009)

There r people who simply don't want to follow sikh way of life, they cut of there hairs, drink, eat meat and smoke and get involved in all the stuff they should not, but don't want to leave the "Sikh" tag. so started calling themselfs as Sehajdari Sikhs. they r fools dweelling over flesh and lust. They r equally responsible for the current situation that we see of youths in punjabi as we all ur. 


Sehajdari Sikh is not a sikh, as a rat cannot be the lion of a jungle.

*Let's be cautious with our use of language. Thank you, Narayanjot Kaur*


----------



## Archived_Member_19 (Aug 2, 2009)

which SGPC?

:ROFL


----------



## spnadmin (Aug 2, 2009)

Huck_Finn said:


> which SGPC?
> 
> :ROFL



Yes! Which one!? And which rehat for that matter?


----------



## Archived_Member_19 (Aug 2, 2009)

its time to make a bag of popcorn, lean back and enjoy..


<asides>

i am so sick


----------



## harbansj24 (Aug 3, 2009)

Narayanjot ji,



> Yes! Which one!? And which rehat for that matter?



This thread is 4 1/2 years old. But no solution of who can be credible SGPC voter has emerged. To my knowledge Sikhism is the only religion that chooses its representatives to manage its places of worship in a democratic manner by direct voting. Whatever may be merits or demerits, only a Sabat Surat Sikh can credibly be identified as an eligible Sikh voter. If anyone else has to be permitted to vote what then can be his verifiable credentials? Sikh religion cannot be determined by parentage. So birth certificate and  School records are out.  Then what else remains?

As is well known in another case involving admission to reserved seats for Sikhs in Sikh educational instituitions  the Punjab and Haryana High Court recently ruled that only Sabat Surat Sikhs can be considered as Sikhs for this purpose. It even debarred girls who plucked their eyebrows!


----------

