# Racism



## namritanevaeh (Oct 14, 2012)

I am a white girl.  I am very open, accepting, and curious about the Sikh religion.  I have many Sikh friends who I ask questions of.  I live in Surrey BC, and are surrounded by them.  A little less than a year ago I started dating a very "Canadianized" Sikh man...I'm just going to refer to him as M for now.  He flirted with me for many months actually before I finally said ok I'll go out with you...he had kind of won me over.  We started dating and I fell in love WAYYYY too fast, but he kept me thinking he was feeling similar things.  After a month and a half or so...I will admit to losing my head one night and I got pregnant.  The situation surrounding this is all SO very much more complicated but to try and keep this short I will just be as brief as possible.  When I told M I thought I was pregnant (I wasn't yet 100% sure)...his first reaction was almost one of awe...like "I'm going to have a baby!" kind of surprise to his voice.  Then he started thinking...and walking around and ultimately said, amongst other things, that his parents would be upset/angry..."no offense but it's because you are white".  Later on, he told me he did not want to have a child with me (and admittedly this was an oopsie and unplanned by either of us) and that he wanted to pursue a relationship with someone else...who I later learned is Sikh too.

I feel so very very ostracized.  Never in the history of my immediate family have I heard of anyone being treated in such a racist way or treating anyone else as such.  I feel upset that people that I hear on a daily basis saying Canadians should accept them and embrace their culture, their religion, learn about it etc., would raise children who feel it is acceptable to trash the white girl based on HER skin colour and background...the white girl who IS open and accepting and wants to learn more.  It saddens me very deeply.  And to so cruel-ly dump her while she was hormonal and pregnant...even worse.

Ultimately...I lost that baby.  She or he is gone from this earth.  But I felt the child move and I now carry a part of that man in me every where I go.  And today would have been my due date...so I am doubly sad because I would have been more than willing to work on a relationship, being a good person in his life, etc., and he threw that away for a question of culture as far as I'm concerned.  He has yet to prove to me otherwise in any shape way or form...


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## Harry Haller (Oct 14, 2012)

I am sorry for your loss and the way you have been treated, I hope you find the strength to move on from this and find someone who values you as a person and as a future life partner,


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 14, 2012)

harry haller said:


> I am sorry for your loss and the way you have been treated, I hope you find the strength to move on from this and find someone who values you as a person and as a future life partner,



Thanks Harry.  I happen to find a lot of attraction for brown guys but this kind of thing makes one gun-shy at trying again.  No matter who with.  :'(

:sippingcoffee:


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## TigerStyleZ (Oct 14, 2012)

Hey.. 

oh , I am very sorry to hear this.. I don´t know what to say.. There is just one thing. this maybe sounds harsh, but don´t think all "Sikh" men are like these, and please don´t blame it on the religion...  I don´t want to sound rude.. but just saying.. I know it will be hard for you now.. and I wish you all strength from the world..(esspeically for one lost soul....).. Such people I really can punch in this face... Doesn´t matter which religion culture or whatever they belong too.. It just seems, that this guy wanted to sleep with you and thats it..  or he hasnt the guts to stay with you like a MAN and learn out of his "mistakes".. And if he only lefts you because of his "PARENTS" this guy has no spinal..  Just please don´t rage on the religion... It is just this retarded convervative thinking of Punjabis... (mostly the elders)..


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## Rory (Oct 14, 2012)

I'm sure you realize that being born into a Sikh family does not make one a Sikh. Just like here in Ireland, being born into an Irish-Catholic family doesn't make you a Catholic, it makes you Irish.

It sounds like this man has no right to use the word "Sikh" to describe himself. Maybe "Punjabi" or "Indian" or possibly "the child of Sikh parents", but from the sounds of it he has exhibited no Sikh traits. Actually, almost everywhere he was mentioned in your story, he is mentioned doing something negative or thoughtless. 

I am extremely sorry for your loss and the trauma you suffered at the hands of this man. His actions do not reflect Sikhism at all.


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## Navdeep88 (Oct 14, 2012)

namrit Ji,

This is not a very Sikh move, sounds more like an 'unprepared male youth', who couldn't wrap his head around being a father at this age, move. He did the deed & so did you, which is I hate to say smthng that shuld be reserved for marriage imo. 

In any case, im terribly sorry for your loss & hope you meet a more caring responsible man in the future, whoever he may be.


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## Luckysingh (Oct 14, 2012)

I'm sorry to hear about your suffering.
Sadly, this kind of story goes on in every corner of the world and it is more about irresponsible and selfish men. 
I'm sure that you expected him to be a little different to other men, because he was from a punjabi sikh family. 

It's a shame that it ended up this way, and I am ashamed that men like that give us all a bad reputation.

However, do you really feel that it is a racist issue ? 
-Because, I reckon that even if you were Punjabi sikh and had the same situation, he would have acted no different. I'm certain he would have deserted you as well.
Therefore, I wouldn't feel that you've been singled out because your white and he's racist. I think that he is selfish and irresponsible much more than racist.

I know that these men exist in every colour and creed and you don't have to belong to a certain nation to be one. But knowing about his culture and religion, you assured yourself that he wouldn't be capable or cold enough to commit such act.

However, didn't any of your sikh friends that may have known a little about his background, warn against his beahviour or did he fool everyone ?

I wish you all the best in the future and hope that you don't close your cultural options after this experience which makes you feel singled out by race.


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 15, 2012)

TigerStyleZ said:


> Hey..
> 
> oh , I am very sorry to hear this.. I don´t know what to say.. There is just one thing. this maybe sounds harsh, but don´t think all "Sikh" men are like these, and please don´t blame it on the religion...  I don´t want to sound rude.. but just saying.. I know it will be hard for you now.. and I wish you all strength from the world..(esspeically for one lost soul....).. Such people I really can punch in this face... Doesn´t matter which religion culture or whatever they belong too.. It just seems, that this guy wanted to sleep with you and thats it..  or he hasnt the guts to stay with you like a MAN and learn out of his "mistakes".. And if he only lefts you because of his "PARENTS" this guy has no spinal..  Just please don´t rage on the religion... It is just this retarded convervative thinking of Punjabis... (mostly the elders)..



Oh I DO realise that it's not that everyone will be like this.  Still, I found it heartbreaking, for sure.  :'(

japposatnamwaheguru:


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 15, 2012)

Rory said:


> I'm sure you realize that being born into a Sikh family does not make one a Sikh. Just like here in Ireland, being born into an Irish-Catholic family doesn't make you a Catholic, it makes you Irish.
> 
> It sounds like this man has no right to use the word "Sikh" to describe himself. Maybe "Punjabi" or "Indian" or possibly "the child of Sikh parents", but from the sounds of it he has exhibited no Sikh traits. Actually, almost everywhere he was mentioned in your story, he is mentioned doing something negative or thoughtless.
> 
> I am extremely sorry for your loss and the trauma you suffered at the hands of this man. His actions do not reflect Sikhism at all.



Thanks Rory.  I also was surprised he would suggest I get an abortion (yes that did happen).  :'(


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 15, 2012)

Navdeep88 said:


> namrit Ji,
> 
> This is not a very Sikh move, sounds more like an 'unprepared male youth', who couldn't wrap his head around being a father at this age, move. He did the deed & so did you, which is I hate to say smthng that shuld be reserved for marriage imo.
> 
> In any case, im terribly sorry for your loss & hope you meet a more caring responsible man in the future, whoever he may be.



Thanks Navdeep.  Well, we're both in our late 30's and I have been married before. This isn't a 15yo...just sayin'...


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 15, 2012)

Luckysingh said:


> However, do you really feel that it is a racist issue ?
> -Because, I reckon that even if you were Punjabi sikh and had the same situation, he would have acted no different. I'm certain he would have deserted you as well.
> Therefore, I wouldn't feel that you've been singled out because your white and he's racist. I think that he is selfish and irresponsible much more than racist.
> 
> I know that these men exist in every colour and creed and you don't have to belong to a certain nation to be one. But knowing about his culture and religion, you assured yourself that he wouldn't be capable or cold enough to commit such act.



Yes, maybe I assumed he would be better b/c of  his family-oriented background?  I don't honestly know.  I doubt I'll ever know. All I know is despite his actions I love the man more than life itself.  :'(

People will likely ask why...what can I say.  I happen to be one of the most loyal, non-judgemental, forgiving people out there.  That's all there is to it.  :-/


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## Kanwaljit.Singh (Oct 15, 2012)

> Yes, maybe I assumed he would be better b/c of his family-oriented background? I don't honestly know. I doubt I'll ever know. All I know is despite his actions I love the man more than life itself. :'(
> 
> People will likely ask why...what can I say. I happen to be one of the most loyal, non-judgemental, forgiving people out there. That's all there is to it.


 
Sometimes it is better to focus on things which happened than the reasons behind them. It helps in moving on. E.g. when we are not supposed to get a promotion at work, the manager might find and give us any reason. Reasons can be replaced and mixed up. The relevant thing is that I didn't get promotion. Or that you have been cheated. And yet you are free from a corrupted man, Sikh he may be.

Loyalty and forgiveness are great qualities, but can lead to our own downfall without WISDOM. You know the line 'SO DARK THE CON OF MAN'. I think you just saw a bit of it. I hope you find strength and wisdom for your future.


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 15, 2012)

Kanwaljit Singh said:


> Sometimes it is better to focus on things which happened than the reasons behind them. You know the line 'SO DARK THE CON OF MAN'. I think you just saw a bit of it. I hope you find strength and wisdom for your future.



I don't, actually, know that quote.  I shall look it up.  Thanks Kanwaljit.  I appreciate the thoughts.  

icecreamkaur


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## Alan491 (Oct 16, 2012)

I like to listen to views of all kinds. To me it's like a landscape. Anyways go on with your take on it. I will stay out of this one.


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## linzer (Oct 16, 2012)

nwil ieAwxy dosqI vfwrU isau nyhu ] (474-14, Awsw, mÚ 2)
naal i-aanay dostee vadaaroo si-o nayhu.
Friendship with a fool, and love with a pompous person,
 pwxI AMdir lIk ijau iqs dw Qwau n Qyhu ]4] (474-15, Awsw, mÚ 2)
paanee andar leek ji-o tis daa thaa- o na thayhu. ||4||
are like lines drawn in water, leaving no trace or mark. ||4||
Be that as It may, I'll try to draw a line anyway.
It seems like everyone on this site is telling you exactly what you want to hear.
 No one is telling you what you need to hear. 
So here goes.
When I first read this link I thought "Poor young thing, some jerk took her for a ride. The way you write makes you sound like about 17 to 19 years old. When I saw that you are are almost 40 years old, I thought "what is she thinking having unprotected sex with someone she hardly knows". Right after that It occured to me that your hearing the ticking of your biological clock and some how you think that having a baby is going to give your life reason. At best he'll marry you at worst you'll have a baby to mantipulate him with for the rest of his days

]Grow up and stop playing the manipulative victim.


*it is acceptable to trash the white girl based on HER skin colour and background...the white girl who IS open and accepting and wants to learn more.  *A lot of people have it a much worse than you get over it.

* It saddens me very deeply. And to so cruel-ly dump her while she was hormonal and pregnant...even worse.*
What is this ? we're suppose to give you some kind of special consideration because of hormones. If that's the case blame my reply on testosterone.

*Ultimately...I lost that baby. She or he is gone from this earth. But I felt the child move and I now carry a part of that man in me every where I go.*
What is this? There is saying here that says" She looking fo a onion so she can cry". I think that pretty much applys here.
*And today would have been my due date...so I am doubly sad*
Bravo ! expert manipulation. 
Why are you posting on this site anyway?
Have you run out of friend and family to whine to?
I think you really should be thankful that things turned out the way they did. You are far too immature to be bringing a human life into this world.
I would suggest you read bani but I think it would be like casting pearls before swine.
I really suggest you go and get therapy before you go tryng to get pregnant again.
I know all this sounds hugely cruel but the truth is I don't think your even being honest with yourself.
By the way I really should'nt be taking the time to write this but someone
needed to tell you to Grow up.


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 17, 2012)

> Bravo ! expert manipulation.
> Why are you posting on this site anyway?
> Have you run out of friend and family to whine to?
> I think you really should be thankful that things turned out the way they did. You are far too immature to be bringing a human life into this world.
> ...



Way to judge someone.

A) I already have kids.  From a previous marriage.  They are like all human beings:  not exactly perfect.  But for the most part, decent human beings.  I try to raise them with strong morals.  I do and will make mistakes in their upbringing as I am not a perfect person either.

B) Yes I know where babies come from.

C) we had discussed going without protection; it wasn't entirely a 1-sided thing.

D) I had no intentions on manipulation.  DYK what I told him when he told me he didn't want a child with me but would rather pursue a relationship with someone else?  I said I would ask _nothing _from him.  It takes 2 to tango...he's a grown man, he has nerve cells allowing him to realise what we were not using protection, and while I led the way that evening if he had said at any point in time "no let's use protection" I would have gone along with it.  I never heard that.  Not once.  And if you try to tell me he was getting carried away...fine.  Like I say, so was I.  We both were.  I'll accept (easily) more than 50% of the burden of blame for that evening given I led the way but there wasn't exactly a lack of desire shown on his part either.

Since we had previously discussed going without protection, I assumed he was fine with it.  But I said if he wanted nothing to do with the child I would not force him.  I had no plans on asking for financial support if he had nothing to do with the child either, although legally I could have probably fought that battle.  I'm really not into manipulation OR coersion of any sort.  I said I would provide him with plenty of options along the way and if he wanted to have something to do with the child's life we could discuss how that went.  Otherwise I would leave him alone.

E) Like I said there was a LOT more complexity to the issue than I originally stated and I had significant cause to believe that the chances of me getting pregnant from that one evening were along the lines of winning the 6/49 jackpot.  Aka very slim.  Nothing is 100%; we could have used protection and had an accident with that (I have had that happen more than once in the past).

So...thanks for the judgement call.

:interestedmunda:


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 17, 2012)

> When I saw that you are are almost 40 years old, I thought "what is she thinking having unprotected sex with someone she hardly knows". Right after that It occured to me that your hearing the ticking of your biological clock and some how you think that having a baby is going to give your life reason.



Also, no I have ample friends and family who will listen, and I AM seeing a counsellor for this, specifically.

But he was hardly someone I "hardly knew".  By the time we had unprotected sex we'd been dating for a couple of months.  As for my life having reason...the only reason I am still IN this life is for the kids I already have.  When I lost that child...along with the man I love...I pretty much lost most of my will to live.  But I can't actually go elsewhere due to the kids I have in this life.


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## Ishna (Oct 17, 2012)

That desn't sound like regular Linzer. *taps the screen* Who are you, imposter?! Either that or it's one heck of a raw nerve there...

But while we're in the spirit of it...



> Since we had previously discussed going without protection, I assumed he was fine with it.


 
Why would you discuss going without protection and not discuss the issue of a potential pregnancy?  Of course he was fine with going without protection, they say sex with a condom is like taking a shower with a raincoat on!  If anyone is going to have unprotected sex they should be ready for a baby.  And it can happen on the first go, I'm sure you know that.

I hope you find love in the end because it sounds like you got a bit of a bum steer with this one.


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## Ambarsaria (Oct 17, 2012)

namritaneveah ji thanks for your posts.  An excellent example of respectful dialog while much less would have been deserving or called for and many would have come swinging.





namritanevaeh said:


> Also, no I have ample friends and family who will listen, and I AM seeing a counsellor for this, specifically.
> 
> But he was hardly someone I "hardly knew".  By the time we had unprotected sex we'd been dating for a couple of months.  As for my life having reason...the only reason I am still IN this life is for the kids I already have.  When I lost that child...along with the man I love...I pretty much lost most of my will to live.  But I can't actually go elsewhere due to the kids I have in this life.


_May you have a wonderful life.  As you know many times things in life don't work even with the best of intentions.  I am no expert but I have observed that for many men (an perhaps women too!) winning/capturing/"dating" is a taken as a prize.  The subsequent relationship or commitment sometimes becomes like a chore.  Very sad but it needs to be looked at in such crass ways sometimes as things may be as simple as that.

_I don't think racism has as much to do with it or even anything.  It is quite possible that the gentleman saw a vulnerability and exploited it.  This does not have to be racism basis and happens day and night in our lives in measures small and big.

By the way Sikhism much believes in "you sow and so shall you reap".  This is not to a wish for any bad but just a simple recognition that is even in our holy Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 


> ਜੈਸਾ ਬੀਜਹਿ ਤੈਸਾ ਖਾਸਾ ॥੩॥
> जैसा बीजहि तैसा खासा ॥३॥
> Jaisā bījėh ṯaisā kẖāsā. ||3||
> As they plant, so shall they harvest. ||3||
> ...


Wishing you and your children all the best in the future.

Regards.  mundahug


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## linzer (Oct 17, 2012)

That desn't sound like regular Linzer. *taps the screen* Who are you, imposter?! Either that or it's one heck of a raw nerve there...
No imposter It's me. 
And I stand by what I said.
 Did we get a check up for potentially fatal diseases as well? 
If she has kids all the more reason to use protection.
 I also stand by my statement that she's manipulative. " The only reason I'm still in this life is for my kids". If that's not a manipulative statement I don't know what is.
Yes I would say it's a raw nerve when white people whine that they're discriminated against I find it annoying. Try being black or brown in Nyc for a day. Try wearing a turban and passing through an airport. Yes discrimination sucks but get over it. You don't have it that bad.

Again what do you want from this posting sympathy?


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 17, 2012)

Ishna said:


> That desn't sound like regular Linzer.
> 
> Why would you discuss going without protection and not discuss the issue of a potential pregnancy?  Of course he was fine with going without protection, they say sex with a condom is like taking a shower with a raincoat on!  If anyone is going to have unprotected sex they should be ready for a baby.  And it can happen on the first go, I'm sure you know that.
> 
> I hope you find love in the end because it sounds like you got a bit of a bum steer with this one.



Glad to hear Linzer isn't always so hard.  ;-)

I feel we had discussed the possibility of pregnancy.  I think more than once.  When we met I said if he was looking for someone to settle down with and have kids I probably would not be his person.  Not that I am completely against the idea of more kids with the right person, more that I've "BTDT".  I'm also not keen on the idea of getting married again.  I would very likely consider both with the "right person" but a lot of times it is the girl who really wants to marry in order to get the big "dream wedding" and...I've done that.

So anyhow his reply to that was that he didn't mind; he didn't feel the NEED to have children right then and there.  HOwever, he adores children.  Down to changing the dirty diapers of a friend's kids...something a lot of men would balk at.  On at least one more occasion, perhaps 2 if my memory is faulty, we discussed what would happen with an oopsie and his reply was "well I guess I'll update my FB status to say I'll be a dad! Simple as that!" pretty much.  So my take on it was he wasn't planning kids but would tolerate an oopsie just fine.

Of course I know a child can happen on the first time.  I love the man; I won't say I wouldn't have enjoyed having his child...by the time I lost it I really did want it.  But whilst I was ready to face the consquences if they should occur I guess he was just paying lip service to pretending he would be ok with it or something.

Oh here is my memory of the other discussion of children which was the night we were together making that child, after the fact.  I was telling him something my mom had said about oopsie children and she said "there are a lot of lives that are ruined by oopsies" or something like that and I told him that and we both kind of went "really?!!!  Since when is it ok to consider a new life such a negative thing?!".  He seemed as appalled as I was at the comment and was like "yeah kids should always be #1 priority".

Thanks for your thoughtful words at the end.


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 17, 2012)

Ambarsaria said:


> namritaneveah ji thanks for your posts.  An excellent example of respectful dialog while much less would have been deserving or called for and many would have come swinging.
> 
> By the way Sikhism much believes in "you sow and so shall you reap".  This is not to a wish for any bad but just a simple recognition that is even in our holy Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji,Wishing you and your children all the best in the future.



Thanks Ambarsaria.  I have been on forums for many years, debating.  You quickly learn to a) develop a thick skin and b) how to be respectful in responses otherwise you might as well not debate. 

I kind of figured Sikhism was a bit along those lines.  Which was why the suggestion of an abortion just shocked me so much.  I totally was not expecting that of a man who claims to love children so much.

*sigh*

Thanks again.  

mundahug


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 17, 2012)

linzer said:


> Did we get a check up for potentially fatal diseases as well?
> If she has kids all the more reason to use protection.
> I also stand by my statement that she's manipulative. " The only reason I'm still in this life is for my kids". If that's not a manipulative statement I don't know what is.



Why is that a manipulative statement?  It is a factual statement.  I'm depressed, I really hate how my life has gone in the past 9 months.  This past week has been both pregnancy loss week and mental illness week in the same week my child would have been "due" to enter the world, and I say how ironic when the former can obviously so easily lead to the latter.  I would challenge anyone to carry a child, feel it move and then basically "feel it die" and lose it, and NOT come out raw and damaged on the other end.  That is probably something rather difficult to understand if you haven't been there, done that, though.  To add racial slurs to someone who is suffering already is to add insult to injury.

What if this wasn't a baby situation.  What if the tables were turned...we were going out and getting along well and his...cousin...grandfather...etc. died and I chose that moment in time to tell him I couldn't possibly take him home for dinner to my parents' house b/c they wouldn't accept him b/c of his skin colour?  Totally totally unacceptable in my opinion, worse b/c he was going through a difficult emotional time when I chose to tell him that.  Luckily I don't have a family like that; they will accept a green Martian as my mate if he is nice to me, and will give anyone a chance or few.  But even if it WERE an issue, with ANYONE in my surrounding friends/family, I would stand up for what I believe in.  Maybe it helps that I have relatives who are mixed race in my family.  It just has never been seen as an issue.  One of my closest family members is probably darker coloured than this man I dated.  *shrug*



> Yes I would say it's a raw nerve when white people whine that they're discriminated against I find it annoying. Try being black or brown in Nyc for a day. Try wearing a turban and passing through an airport. Yes discrimination sucks but get over it. You don't have it that bad.
> 
> Again what do you want from this posting sympathy?



YK...no one has a perfect life.  Everyone has their crosses to bear and to claim that one person's are worse than another without "walking a mile in their shoes" is pretty presumptious.  So I have it easy going through the airport.  My wounds are less visual than a Turban.  Great.  It doesn't erase them.

The simple fact is...racism and discrimination work both ways.  I don't dish out racism or discrimination of any kind (some of my best friends in life are "physically challenged" if that is still the PC term for "disabled"...TBH I can't keep track of these things and they personally prefer to be called disabled...in any case I am openly accepting of people of pretty much any walk of life)...and I find it shocking and hurtful that a person who has been discriminated against regularly based on his race/background would dish it out so freely.


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## kds1980 (Oct 17, 2012)

namritanevaeh ji

Even if you had been brown ,Hindu ,muslim or even a sikh woman with already kids even then chances of your B/F  marrying you were quite bleak.Most of Indian families irrespective of religion  want their sons to marry in their religion and within their caste  and community and that too with unmarried woman.


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 17, 2012)

kds1980 said:


> namritanevaeh ji
> 
> Even if you had been brown ,Hindu ,muslim or even a sikh woman with already kids even then chances of your B/F  marrying you were quite bleak.Most of Indian families irrespective of religion  want their sons to marry in their religion and within their caste  and community and that too with unmarried woman.



Yeah.  I am seeing that.  It makes it hard to understand why people want others to respect, support, and learn about them if they are not open to embracing other people too into their culture in exchange.  I was told by him that he was against caste issues and that he cared not what his parents thought about the people he was with/dating.  I guess it was all a big fat lie...

We're all humans on this planet last I checked.  No one is superior to another as far as I am concerned...it takes all sorts to make a world.

japposatnamwaheguru:


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## linzer (Oct 17, 2012)

You never did answer my question about why you chose to post here. It looks like all you want to do is wallow in self pity and you want the people of this forum to give you sympathy. None of this does you any good. 
If you want to get something out of it other than useless sympathy and if you really are going to a therapist, I suggest you print off everything you wrote on this thread, what the rest of us wrote doesn't matter. 
Ask him or her what they think. Ask them to point out where your being manipulative.
You don't see it yourself but it's there. What you need to do is move on with your life. Your holding on to this experience to try to milk it for every last drop of drama you can.
I'm not trying to be mean. I just don't think it does you any good at all to say "oh you poor thing I hope you'll find someone better." Until you change you for the better there won't be any "better".
Gurfateh


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## Ambarsaria (Oct 17, 2012)

Linzer veer ji I have a comment.





linzer said:


> _I'm not trying to be mean._


_I am sorry but the way I read it you are coming across as beyond mean.  I don't understand your posts unless you are the affected party trying to set the record straight.
_


linzer said:


> _I just don't think it does you any good__ ..._


_How can you be definitively judgmental unless you know her personally?  If by any chance you know her personally I suggest you take the conversation off-line._
_
If you are taking the "tough love" or "scared straight" approach I don't think it is working__ or even needed._

I believe on consensus of posts, it can be concluded that it is simply a relationship that went awry and perhaps little or nothing to do with racism.  In that context perhaps the title could have been better phrased.

Regards.


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## Parma (Oct 17, 2012)

linzer said:


> You never did answer my question about why you chose to post here. It looks like all you want to do is wallow in self pity and you want the people of this forum to give you sympathy. None of this does you any good.
> If you want to get something out of it other than useless sympathy and if you really are going to a therapist, I suggest you print off everything you wrote on this thread, what the rest of us wrote doesn't matter.
> Ask him or her what they think. Ask them to point out where your being manipulative.
> You don't see it yourself but it's there. What you need to do is move on with your life. Your holding on to this experience to try to milk it for every last drop of drama you can.
> ...


 

Linzer, you seem proper cut up about it. Maybe you got issues with people expressing their problem? I would simply say Don't comment then. What's the BEEF? Just seems like a lady that's had a hard time nothing to do with any religion or any race just a waste of space of a person she came in contact with. I mean he had no issues dating her so the issue was not race he seems to have treated her rightly aswell only when the lady talked of commitment the guy runs a mile, maybe family and cultural issues but that is the individuals frame of mind and family. Nothing to do with a race or a religion. Linzer grow up dude, I can be just as rough with you sunshine, leave the lady alone! (I can not understand your frustrations) Not trying to be the knight in shining armour or anything I just like to see people let be! Linzer grow up you ****! lol friendly banter!


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## findingmyway (Oct 17, 2012)

namritanevaeh said:


> I kind of figured Sikhism was a bit along those lines.  Which was why the suggestion of an abortion just shocked me so much.  I totally was not expecting that of a man who claims to love children so much.



If he was really a practising Sikh he also wouldn't have slept with you without proper commitment. It is exactly to avoid situations like this that sex before marriage doesn't make moral sense!


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## Luckysingh (Oct 17, 2012)

Look, coming from the streets of UK, most of us men have always come across similar stories. However, we have normally been on the other end such as a good mate of ours getting his chick or girlfriend pregnant!!
As friends and mates we naturally respected their decision if they wanted to dump or proceed with the relationship.
The only lesson that I may have learnt was that '' I should avoid getting into such scenario''
Then again our mates never planned it, it was basically an oopsie that happens.

Being a little mature now and with reference to namrita's post, I realise the pain and difficulty faced by the woman.
The lad simply moves on and looks for better things, once they feel free from being tied down.Or they may decide to pursue fatherhood and stick with the chick, in which case you or the other lads hardly ever see him again !!
 But it makes it difficult for the girl or woman to do it that easily. To simply move on with her life is not that easy, which is why Linzer can't make any sense of it.

I'm sorry that it has happened this way, but you need to get a little pro-active and try and move on.
If you need further help or guidance, then there are many professionals and resources available in Surrey BC from what I gather.
I don't live too far from Surrey and can help put you in contact with local counsellers if you require.

You have your kids to keep you going and give you strength. They must be a huge and valuable part of your life.
It may make your days a little easier, if you try live and see the world through their eyes. Remember for them, you are ALL they really have.
You may feel lost and let down by your lover, but they would be much more lost without you. You are their purpose for life !!

I hope you had a nice thanksgiving last week and I would look forward to halloween and christmas time with your kids.


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## Luckysingh (Oct 17, 2012)

> Try wearing a turban and passing through an airport. Yes discrimination sucks but get over it.


 
Personally, I don't go for the cries of the turban victim at the airport !!
I will explain why-

-First, I think that the real very genuine sikhs that get a hard time at the airport, simply put up with it and don't make too much noise or moan. They are normally the mot humble gursikhs.
--- Secondly, the turban sikhs that I have seen kick up a fuss, moan about being victims  etc.. whilst going through security do have a fair point.
They do make it known and clear that they are sikhs and the turban is a sacred part of the religion.
Lets see how sacred they stay later!!!
Because, very sadly on numerous occasions I have seen these same sikhs who did a very good job in expressing sikh values at security behaving in totally MANMATT manners throughout the flight !!!

--YOU GUESSED IT- it's the same babas that will be looking forward to cabin crew bringing the miniature whiskey's. Then they go on their 8 hour 'peggh' binge whilst bibiji sleeps or watches a movie.
- What happens many hours later is that Baba ji will be so intoxicated that cabin crew will refuse to serve more alcohol. Then he wil moan about how he has been picked on and discrimnated against all the way from the airport check in.
He will try and give his 3 words of english to the hostess and then go on to asking the young punjabi like me nearby to request a drink and then pass it to him !!

THIS is the DISGRACEFUL way that some Baba sikhs and younger ones of course, represent us to the world.
So, in my experience with airport security, the baba that is moaning and bothered, doesn't get too much sympathy from me !!!


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 17, 2012)

linzer said:


> You never did answer my question about why you chose to post here. It looks like all you want to do is wallow in self pity



Nope.  Not at all.  In fact, reading between the lines, you may have noticed I mention more than once that I see little point in asking people to learn about one's culture and background and be accepting of them if one is to be very closed-minded themself and not accept outsiders in who ARE willing to learn about and embrace that culture.  So my post is about education.  As I say, racism and discrimination work both ways.  I hear a lot of people cry racism pretty darn quickly and yet it seems sometimes those same people are very fast to dish it out (and just for the record...I am NOT saying that those people are all Sikh by far...I see it in many cultures...I just decided to post here b/c the man I was dating WAS, himself of that background, and I wanted to clarify too that what I understood of what being Sikh is all about, from some of my friends, is actually true.).

I come from a family with strong family values, lots of family get-togethers, family support...we are really more alike than we are different and that is one of my points.  

And I was once accused of being a racist by someone of a different racial background (NOT a Sikh woman) b/c I told her that by law she should keep her party noise to a minimum after 10 pm.  The same person came to my house one day on a completely separate occasion when she had a bone to pick with me, and called me a "f'ing whitey".  Like I say...it seems very backwards to accuse someone of it when I would have told any neighbour of any background that party noise should be minimal late at night, and then dish it out yourself.

I am not in any way accusing any one person of anything.  Just saying it comes up more than I like to see, and I am calling out trying to open up people's minds to say that "hey, this shouldn't be considered OK to do this, to treat people like this."

Hope that clarifies it?


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 17, 2012)

Ambarsaria said:


> I believe on consensus of posts, it can be concluded that it is simply a relationship that went awry and perhaps little or nothing to do with racism.  In that context perhaps the title could have been better phrased.



Ambarsaria, you may be right.  I was unsure what to post it under and as it felt to me like it bordered on that, that seemed like the shortest most concise way to title it.  I hope I didn't offend anyone as such.


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 17, 2012)

Parma said:


> Linzer grow up dude, I can be just as rough with you sunshine, leave the lady alone! (I can not understand your frustrations) Not trying to be the knight in shining armour or anything I just like to see people let be! Linzer grow up you



Aww...is there a teary-faced icon?  Thanks for the kind defense Parma.

Obviously a lot of you "know" each other from other posts.  I enjoy reading you all, even Linzer.  Sometimes the hard nosed approach does open up our eyes.  I don't feel I have to agree with everything that is dished out in my direction, however, and will defend my views.  ;-)


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 17, 2012)

Luckysingh said:


> Being a little mature now and with reference to namrita's post, I realise the pain and difficulty faced by the woman.
> The lad simply moves on and looks for better things, once they feel free from being tied down.Or they may decide to pursue fatherhood and stick with the chick, in which case you or the other lads hardly ever see him again !!
> But it makes it difficult for the girl or woman to do it that easily. To simply move on with her life is not that easy, which is why Linzer can't make any sense of it.




Thanks LuckySingh.  You know what?  There is a gentleman I work with who one day was saying he was glad he only had 1 daughter to worry about her getting "knocked up".  ;-)  I said to him (he also has a son) that he has his priorities on the wrong way.  I said "if your daughter gets pregnant, there is a VERY good chance you will only end up a grandfather of an oopsie once.  People do TEND to learn their lesson.  Could be twins or triplets, but chances of that, or higher, are so very small it's hardly worth considering.  Your son, however, if you don't educate him properly to insist on using protection for his OWN self and future as well as the girl's, could easily end up, if he is unable to keep his pants zipped up ;-) impregnating 10 girls in the time it takes your daughter to get pregnant once.  And if all 10 of those girls DO decide to come after him for child support payments and he is unable to do so, ie still in school or something, who will ultimately end up having to help out but you?".

My work colleague looked at me and I swear his jaw dropped about 2 inches.  He was like..."you are SO right.  I mean I hope I have instilled in my son that you shouldn't do that and just sleep around willy nilly but it's not like I have any way of checking or imprisoning him to make sure he doesn't."

It sure made him think.  The guys may well sometimes get off virtually scott free in terms of having to live through baby years, toddlerhood, sleepless nights...if they refuse to stand up and be a man about it.  But many women WOULD and do ask for child support for children conceived this way every year throughout the world.  Depending on where you live, you can have your children taken away and STILL have to provide financial support for them.

So...yeah.  It sure is easier when it's not your body that has to commit to it.  I won't say I hated every moment of being pregnant the other times it happened (and they WERE planned with the same person...and I left due to abuse before I get asked that)...but it's not all a walk in the park.  And the scars that stay in your soul from the loss of a child you didn't plan but ended up desiring after that possibility was handed to you can be, in my experience and the experience of other mothers I've spoken to, almost MORE devastating than planned kids.  When you lose a child you planned, it is of course devastating too...but there is virtually always the possibility of "trying again".  Those of us who lose a child like this...have none of that.  It's over.  And if things had turned out differently and the child had survived, I might be looking down at a child with his smile, or his eyes NOW...but I will never get that chance.  Which is just as devastating.


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 17, 2012)

Luckysingh said:


> I don't live too far from Surrey and can help put you in contact with local counsellers if you require.
> 
> You have your kids to keep you going and give you strength. They must be a huge and valuable part of your life.
> It may make your days a little easier, if you try live and see the world through their eyes. Remember for them, you are ALL they really have.
> ...



Oh and thanks for the end of this too Luckysingh...I decided to reply to the top before reading the rest LOL.  Too much of an eager beaver.  ;-)  I do have a counsellor I am working with weekly.  And of course I enjoy my kids.  Like I say, they do give me a purpose, a reason to stay around.

I ended up having to work for thanksgiving  but hopefully will get to celebrate Hallowe'en more in style!  ;-)  BOO!!!!


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 17, 2012)

Luckysingh said:


> - What happens many hours later is that Baba ji will be so intoxicated that cabin crew will refuse to serve more alcohol. Then he wil moan about how he has been picked on and discrimnated against all the way from the airport check in.
> He will try and give his 3 words of english to the hostess and then go on to asking the young punjabi like me nearby to request a drink and then pass it to him !!
> 
> THIS is the DISGRACEFUL way that some Baba sikhs and younger ones of course, represent us to the world.
> So, in my experience with airport security, the baba that is moaning and bothered, doesn't get too much sympathy from me !!!



LOL!!!  I love your description.  I won't say I agree or disagree; I know little about this area.

I WOULD love to learn more Panjābī though.  Truely and honestly.    I know all of about 1 useless word, 1 cool term, one useful word, and a whole bunch of food words (I CAN effectively read a restaurant menu without resorting to descriptions having learnt by now what most of the terms mean.  ;-)).

I am a lover of languages (they come easily to me) and I'd actually find it very helpful in my area of the world to know more.


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 17, 2012)

findingmyway said:


> If he was really a practising Sikh he also wouldn't have slept with you without proper commitment. It is exactly to avoid situations like this that sex before marriage doesn't make moral sense!



OK so I didn't say "practicing"...I did say "very canadianised".  ;-)  Born and raised here...


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 17, 2012)

Ambarsaria said:


> Linzer veer ji I have a comment.I am sorry but the way I read it you are coming across as beyond mean.  I don't understand your posts unless you are the affected party trying to set the record straight..



Oooooooooooohhhhh...I sure hope not.  ;-)  But then if he were...it would mean he is lying about where he lives or I am.  Since I say I am in Surrey, not Mexico.  ;-)

I think I myself would know, in any case, if "M" were posting here, even under a pseudonym (and my moniker sure is...it's not my real name).


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## linzer (Oct 18, 2012)

I am sorry but the way I read it you are coming across as beyond mean. I don't understand your posts unless you are the affected party trying to set the record straight.

_How can you be definitively judgmental unless you know her personally? If by any chance you know her personally I suggest you take the conversation off-line._

_If you are taking the "tough love" or "scared straight" approach I don't think it is working__ or even neede_
_._Ambarsaria ji, and everyone else  as well,
Sorry that you don't like my style. 
I agree completely that her problem is not about racism. It's about a relationship that didn't work out.
I really don't intend to come across as mean but I what I'm saying is pretty much what other people have said. " stop holding on to this and move on. "
 And once again I want to say Namritanavaeh print off what you've written here and take it with you to your therapist. It really can be an excellent tool for them to help you. Many times you can get sidetrack and forget to tell your therapist things that might be important. Life is far too short to waste it crying over things we can't change.
best of luck.


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 18, 2012)

linzer said:


> Sorry that you don't like my style.
> And once again I want to say Namritanavaeh print off what you've written here and take it with you to your therapist. It really can be an excellent tool for them to help you.



Thanks Linzer; that is probably a good idea at
Some point. My counsellor does know way more detail about this relationship than I shared online for sure as well.
:grinningkaur:


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## Ambarsaria (Oct 18, 2012)

Dear Linzer I like your posts and style.  I am probably much more guilty than you in the area of "I did not write it to be read that way ....".  Finding faults, asking people to buzz off really is never helpful and again I had my share of such indiscretions.  We are all human.  Over the long term the good in the heart sustains as things always work towards better.

Regards.


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 23, 2012)

YK what seems way more manipulative to me...now maybe my viewpoint is jaded but I posted here that my life feels like crap right now, but this guy showed me scars on his arms from when he did try to kill himself after a prior relationship gone wrong. Why? To compare me to that person somehow...

Then additionally I learned last night that a mutual friend has been told he has to choose btwn the 2 of us. Like srsly?!! Is that not manipulative? *sheesh*


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## linzer (Oct 23, 2012)

namritanevaeh said:


> YK what seems way more manipulative to me...now maybe my viewpoint is jaded but I posted here that my life feels like crap right now, but this guy showed me scars on his arms from when he did try to kill himself after a prior relationship gone wrong. Why? To compare me to that person somehow...
> 
> Then additionally I learned last night that a mutual friend has been told he has to choose btwn the 2 of us. Like srsly?!! Is that not manipulative? *sheesh*


 Yes, that sounds manipulative but so are veiled threats of suicide. I just hope you haven't used the phrase that I mentioned in front of your kids. They'll find it frightening, not reassuring. 
I really don't mean to be an a***ole but Yes I've lived with a manipulative personality. It's no picnic. After a while you lose all respect for the person and with no respect it's really hard to feel anything like affection.
 If this guy is manipulative apart from his other lovely qualities that you've mentioned, Why in the world would you want to be with him. Run Away and don't look back.
Again best of luck.


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## namritanevaeh (Oct 23, 2012)

linzer said:


> Yes, that sounds manipulative but so are veiled threats of suicide. I just hope you haven't used the phrase that I mentioned in front of your kids. They'll find it frightening, not reassuring.
> I really don't mean to be an a***ole but Yes I've lived with a manipulative personality. It's no picnic. After a while you lose all respect for the person and with no respect it's really hard to feel anything like affection.
> If this guy is manipulative apart from his other lovely qualities that you've mentioned, Why in the world would you want to be with him. Run Away and don't look back.
> Again best of luck.



Thanks. No of course I haven't told my kids this. Any of it. Not about the baby either. My exH other than being abusive was also manipulative. Obv. I choose well what can I say. I have however told some friends & obv. The counsellor I see.


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