# Guru



## ravneet_sb (Oct 19, 2011)

"GURU"

"GU"  is darkness "RU"  is light

"GURU" dispels darkness and brings light like shabad of "GURU's BANI"

Our visual sense provide experience of "EXTERNAL WORLD" to our "Imaginative Sense" or "Surat"

But How to get realization of "INNER WORLD" inside body experiences 

Our senses disguise that cause of

"E Motion" is outer physical world


"GURU's BANI" take us out of this doubt


"GURU BANI" says cause of E Motion is ones own thought and chemistry produced within





"SEX" or Sensual Feeling are not related to physical opposite sexual body

but it is related to thought of opposite sexual body by physical sense reading watching  or just imagination

It is production of testosterone which excites not the physical opposite


So Do "FEAR"

Snake doesn't causes "FEAR"

If it causes fear than why model of snake evoke fear

And than learned people of National Geograhic Channel how they are not afraid of snake

Its only mind and training of mind.

So do all ten basic emotions 

(Five Positive and Five Negative) 

10 Bondages 

or 

10 Attachements of mind

Originated as "RAVAN" from stem cells of navel no one can kill it again appears


There is equivalent counter action for all our external actions

One may eat anything but internal body knows how to make balance

Stop and Realize Who makes balance

Body's PH, Temprature, Pressure is static "BIOSTATS"

One may try to disturb the internal balance by misbehaving  with the discipline of body.

But "GOD" know to create life balance for "living of that cell"

So know your inside and enjoy healthy, peaceful life

with "GURU's BANI"

Check external and internal both for getting reality

"GURU's BANI" dispels inner darkness


"GRANTH SAHIB" is "GURU"

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## Arvind (Oct 20, 2011)

Thanks.. It made a wonderful reading


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## Ambarsaria (Oct 20, 2011)

ravneet_sb ji thanks for your post.  Just one comment regarding the  non-Sikh or layman's understanding of the common usage of the word  "Guru" in non-Eastern centric populations.

I take the following definition from Merriam-Webster dictionary,
(http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/guru)



> *gu·ru
> 
> * _noun_
> \ˈgu̇r-(ˌ)ü, ˈgü-(ˌ)rü _also_ gə-ˈrü\
> ...


So common understood usage in non-religious ways (perhaps 99% of its  usage in the West) is a teacher, an expert, a knowledgeable person, a  revered person.

I offer the above in the context that we cannot change the world and need to recognize how it is.

Thanks for your post and above only a suggestive add-on if it helps create a balanced reading, specially for the young and new.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## ravneet_sb (Oct 20, 2011)

welcomemunda





Ambarsaria said:


> ravneet_sb ji thanks for your post.  Just one comment regarding the  non-Sikh or layman's understanding of the common usage of the word  "Guru" in non-Eastern centric populations.
> 
> I take the following definition from Merriam-Webster dictionary,
> (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/guru)
> ...



"MAN" is limited one's mind can be evoked for

1. Literature
2. Legal
3. Financial
4. Technical
5. Human
6. Medical
7. Environmental
 and so many fields.

But to realize all are subject matter of 

to understand all object inside is "ONE" that is "mind"

One may evoke knowledge in one field, two field, three or many.
Sill ocean of knowledge is vast. 
No one can absorb it.

One has definition of "GURU" with own knowledge of respective field.
So literal people defines "GURU" having light of particular field.


"GURU's BANI" 

say don't try to capture ocean in pot

Understand the pot "MIND"  

Role of "MIND" in the body

Know the "SELF" inside 

And be in "Peace" 

Outer knowledge if for eaning in life

But to live happy life "On" should be aware of own "INNER SELF"

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## Ambarsaria (Oct 21, 2011)

ravneet_sb ji thanks for your post.  

My post was not a negative comment on your starting post which is very good but just for note only.

You use "*Guru*'s" "Bani" in some of your writing versus "*Gur*bani".  I thought it is always Gurbani.  

Can you differentiate or comment on the difference thereof.

Thank you.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## ravneet_sb (Oct 21, 2011)

SAT SRI AKAAL,

"I" don't know 
and my apology "I" have not read most of writtings.

The way it comes "I" write.

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa
Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 21, 2011)

I think Gurbani is not a literature so the wordly literal meanings may not be conveying the true message of Gurbani.
Gurbani is BRAHMGIYANu and its messages should be understood from within Gurbani.
Prakash.s.Bagga


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## ravneet_sb (Oct 21, 2011)

SAT SRI AKAAL,

"I" may have used wrong letters, alphabets or words to my imaginative thought.

So please don't take it literal or alphabetic, 
words are just to express inner feeling and imagination. 

"GURU"  in physical form is

"Master" who can not be contradicted, not teaches, but preaches, whos work is above all arguements

"Doer" or practitioner of the subject 

"Fearless" no fear of topic

"Without Jealousy/ hatred" is supremo of subject has no inferior or superior feelings

"Resembles Formless" 

"Without Mindset" attuned to "True Nature"

like "GURU NANAK" is our spiritual "GURU"

And "GURU GRANTH" sahib ji

"GURU" in abstract form

"PAWAN GURU" as a thought 

which hits mind plane and one speaks 
and 
one master his recitation or literature

"GURU's PARSAD" or "masters food of thought' always doer/tasteless/formless but soon it hits mind, 

it take form of words (English/Pujabi/ Bengali.......)


From which MASTERS are born 

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 21, 2011)

While writing anything in context of Gurbani we can not use our own imagination for making use of words .Since Banee is perfect thru perfect GuR we have to understand this perfection otherwise we go astray. All Gurbani words are from TAKSAAL of TRUTH
so we should always make use of the words in the form as given in SGGS .

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## spnadmin (Oct 21, 2011)

Prakash S. Baggu ji

We understand the grammar. What we do not understand is why you will not enlarge on the connection between grammar and meaning. If you won't do that because the meaning has to be found within Gurbani, then there is no point in having a discussion. So why do you even bring it up? How would anyone know if they got the meaning they were supposed to get. According to your reasoning interpretation could turn out to be nothing more than free association to words, even when the grammar is understood. There are two meanings for this sentence:



> Visiting relatives can be boring.



Which one is correct? Or are both correct? The purpose of discussion is to get the meanings out and discuss our perspective on the meanings. Please take my more than 20 requests to you seriously. I shall continue to delete these posts veer ji. They add nothing as they are.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 21, 2011)

SPNADMIN ji,
I fully understand your concern.But i am surprised to see most of the times we have stuck up with certain repeatative messages which are basically unconventional.
Imay clarify yourgoodself I am not here for establishing any of views,nor I have any financial interests.
Sometimes I do think why I should be unnecesarily telling the observations of Gurbani   which hardly any one is interested.It is my Love and Affection for my GURoo which makes me to do so.As such I am well settled person in my life by the grace of Sati GuRu ji.
If you feel anything wrong then I am sorry for that.
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Oct 21, 2011)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> While writing anything in context of Gurbani we can not use our own imagination for making use of words .
> 
> Prakash.S.Bagga


Prakash.s.Bagga ji thanks for your post but I have an issue for the above sentence.

As you know very well, our Guru's were called *Guru* and not *GUR*.  No matter how you translate Guru, it signifies a teacher but is not the subject or content of what is being taught.  So *Gurus*  are not *GUR*.  I don't know where you studied, but a good teacher always encourages you to think, to imagine.  Why should we not imagine when we read and try to understand "*Guru* Granth Sahib ji".  For the Sikhs, the best teacher there is.  

If one calls "Sri Guru Granth Sahib" *GUR*, then we are well on our way to idol worship and not respecting a teacher that Guru Granth Sahib ji is.

*Guru has only one meaning in Sikhism*, esteemed teacher and guide for Sikhs.  All our Gurus were, including the eternal Guru Granth Sahib.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Oct 21, 2011)

Ambarsaria said:
			
		

> If one calls "Sri Gur Granth Sahib" *GUR*, then we are well on our way to idol worship and not respecting a teacher that Guru Granth Sahib ji is.
> 
> *Guru has only one meaning in Sikhism*, esteemed teacher and guide for Sikhs


 
Veer ji,Please don't draw your musket on your friend,but I don't understand why using Gur means we are on our way to Idol worship, we do say ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ,Sat*gur* or ਗੁਰੁ ਸਿਖ. *Gur*sikh,Is this not just semantics? God is not found with a clear grammar but with a clear understanding.

khu kbIr mY so guru pwieAw jw kw nwau ibbykuo ]4]5] 
*Says Kabeer, I have found that Guru, whose Name is Clear Understanding. ||4||5||*


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## Ambarsaria (Oct 21, 2011)

Scarlet Pimpernel said:


> Veer ji,Please don't draw your musket on your friend,but I don't understand why using Gur means we are on our way to Idol worship, we do say ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ,Sat*gur* or ਗੁਰੁ ਸਿਖ. *Gur*sikh,Is this not just semantics?


Veer sp ji if someone wants to slice things too fine they also lose the right to have a co{censored} meal of their choice.  I will let praksah.s.bagga ji describe the differences to you.

GUR/ਗੁਰ is creator, a specific and one in Sikhism.  Prakash.s.bagga ji likes to say it is "Prabh".  The accents of *"ੁ     ੂ     ਿ"* very specifically modify the meaning of the word  *GUR/**ਗੁਰ*.  I have absolutely no issue recognizing all that and so we should.  

Sat Sri Akal.

*PS:  *I am going through the study of all this (even though in my own mind I have clarity about it) so it can be comprehensively posted for review, comment, correction and if it helps others.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 22, 2011)

AMBARSARIA Ji,
I have been a mediocre student during my school studies.and I am still mediocre in my presentation .Probably this could be the reason I am unable to write to your satisfaction.
However  when ever I requested you to confirm your views on the pattern of words as being discussed you too never responded affirmatevey.This way I also find myself in indeceive position.
I may inform you Gurbani grammer is different from grammer of Punjabi language.You are thinking interms of grammer of Punjabi language and I am presenting in terms of pure Gurbani grammer so the difference is bound to be there.
So my dear freind first make familiar and try to know how Gurbani grammer is different from grammer of Punjabi /Gurmukhi language.Things would start becoming clear and clear and I am sure you would be my best Teacher.
With best wishes
Prakash.s.Bagga


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 22, 2011)

AMBARSARIA Ji,
First thing I may clear you I never flagged Prf Sahib Singh Ji.I have learnt a lot thru his contribution.So I dont know how you have concluded.I still remember what I had responded to your question regarding status of Gurbani Teekas by different Scholars includind Prof Sahib Singh.
It would be nice if you go thru a book Gurbani Viakaran by Prof Sahib Singh ji.It will be useful to know How Gurbani grammer is different from Punjabi grammer.
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 22, 2011)

AMBARSARIA Ji,
You would like to repond to my post or not it is purely your choice but certainly not a n approach of a GurSikh.
Your Paraphrase"I am surprised he has violated his own rules of grammer while doing SGGS Darpan". I still agree to this. Not only Prof Sahib Singh ji even all others contributors of Gurbani grammer stand at par in this regard.
Now you may say the whole world is wrong and only myself claiming to be the exquisite.
It is not like this.
I havesimply presented my observations for analysis froma person like you,Giyani Jarnail Singh  ji,Tejwant Singh ji.If my observations are wrong then I should be told clearly the way my observations are wrong.
I still look forward to communicate with your goodself because I would not like to loose a GurSIKh like you.
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Oct 22, 2011)

Spnadmin said:
			
		

> Visiting relatives can be boring. Which one is correct? Or are both correct?


 
As an aristocrat it should be 'Visiting [ones] relatives can be boring' , or 'Visiting relatives can be boring [if they out stay their welcome that can be terribly tiresome ].' In other words you need more information to make sense of it ,thats why we should look at the Guru's word in full Shabads,individual words won't affect the real message as it's conatained in the full.

"An author is a fool who, not content with boring those he lives with,insists on boring future generations."

Charles de Montesquieu


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## ravneet_sb (Oct 22, 2011)

"Humor is vital in life"


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## Ishna (Oct 22, 2011)

Prof. Sahib Singh's Gurbani Vyakarn (Gurbani Grammar) on Scribd

Prof. Sahib Singh - Gurbani Vyakarn (Gurbani Grammar)


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 23, 2011)

ISHNA Ji,

You have really done an highly appreciable job.Now any one can verify the grammer of any word/words .Really wonderful contribution for the Sangat.
With best wishes
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Ishna (Oct 25, 2011)

Kindly see Ang 1401.

Can someone please explain what the significance is of ਗੁਰੂ and ਗੁਰੁ:
ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਰਹੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ 
गुरू गुरु गुरु करहु गुरू हरि पाईऐ ॥ 
Gurū gur gur karahu gurū har pā▫ī▫ai. 
Chant Guru, Guru, Guru; through the Guru, the Lord is obtained. ​Why have two different versions of the word 'Guru' been used?

And later on the same Ang, we find three different versions of the word Guru in one tuk:
ਗੁਰੁ ਜਹਾਜੁ ਖੇਵਟੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਤਰਿਆ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ 
गुरु जहाजु खेवटु गुरू गुर बिनु तरिआ न कोइ ॥ 
Gur jahāj kẖevat gurū gur bin ṯari▫ā na ko▫e. 
The Guru is the Boat, and the Guru is the Boatman. Without the Guru, no one can cross over. ​Can someone tell me what effect of ੁ, ੂ and absence of vowel sign indicates?

Thanks.

Ishna


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## Kanwaljit.Singh (Oct 25, 2011)

ਗੁਰੁ ਜਹਾਜੁ ਖੇਵਟੁ ਗੁਰੂ 

While specifying the boat, the word ਗੁਰੁ has been used, while ਗੁਰੂ has been used for the boatman. Maybe when we realize that Guru can guide us, as Guru is Treasure of all Knowledge and Truth, it is written as ਗੁਰੁ. And when we let Guru guide us (and leave the mind behind) e.g. Guru becomes the Boatman, Guru is written as ਗੁਰੂ. Probably something to do with Sat and Satya in Sanskrit and Hindi. It is some hidden poetic message in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. It is just a hypothesis and must be researched if it's true for all usage.

Another example:

ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਘੋਰੁ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਮਝ ਨ ਆਵੈ ॥

Maybe Gur means knowing that Guru exists and Guroo means understanding Guru after mering your Soul (Rooh) with His Message. It is probably a way of saying that knowing Guru is continuous and ever learning curve, and Sikh should not stop at one point. Like Guru may disperse the Darkness, but the things you see in His Light, you don't understand them either. So you go back to Guru.


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## Ambarsaria (Oct 25, 2011)

Kanwaljit Singh said:


> ਗੁਰੁ ਜਹਾਜੁ ਖੇਵਟੁ ਗੁਰੂ
> 
> While specifying the boat, the word ਗੁਰੁ has been used, while ਗੁਰੂ has been used for the boatman. Maybe when we realize that Guru can guide us, as Guru is Treasure of all Knowledge and Truth, it is written as ਗੁਰੁ. And when we let Guru guide us (and leave the mind behind) e.g. Guru becomes the Boatman, Guru is written as ਗੁਰੂ. Probably something to do with Sat and Satya in Sanskrit and Hindi. It is some hidden poetic message in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. It is just a hypothesis and must be researched if it's true for all usage.
> 
> ...


Kanwaljit Singh ji thank you for your post.  

Kanwaljit Singh ji and _Ishna ji_ (don't worry I will try to help with Punjabi as much as I can as I believe you are still catching up in this area), this aspect is discussed in Prof. Sahib Singh ji's Vyakaran but requires further studying.

*ਗੁਰ*  (gur)------->  *One Creator*

ਗੁਰੁ (Gurô)----->  *Of* one creator; *By* one creator; *Through* one creator

ਗੁਰੂ (gurū) ----->  *The teacher of one creator*

I stand corrected but I am researching this comprehensively for all words which have this as a syllabic part.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 26, 2011)

We can find that these three words have not been differentiated in any of english translitration.So this can make understanding of gurbani somewhat difficult and incorrect.Therefore it is important how to depict these three words in english script.

I think it would be equally important to know  the grammer of these three words for getting correct reference meanings of these words.

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 26, 2011)

AMBARSARIA Ji,
It would be nice of you to give the source any english translitration wherein these three words are depicted as shown by your goodself.This would be a great help for me to follow this source of translitration.,With thanks,
Prakash.s.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Oct 26, 2011)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> AMBARSARIA Ji,
> It would be nice of you to give the source any english translitration wherein these three words are depicted as shown by your goodself.This would be a great help for me to follow _this source of translitration._,With thanks,
> Prakash.s.Bagga


Prakash.s.bagga ji what your goodself needs?  The pronunciation/phonetics or the translation from Punjabi to English.

The pronunciation are from Kulbir Thind's efforts at srigranth.org except for the following which I did as I don't believe it is done right in there,

ਗੁਰੁ (Gurô)

In terms of the Punjabi to English, the source is within me based on my learning and I am sure it is based on numerous readings and could be from some specific work but I don't recall.  When I do I will post if it is important to you.

What is your translation or you believe these cannot be translated or can only be translated to Prabh/Prabhu as appropriate?  I don't feel any need to do that myself.  I will actually translate Prabh/Prabhu to Gur/Guru and not the other way around.

Sat Sri Akal.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 26, 2011)

AMBARSARIA Ji,Thanks for your efforts I look forward to that.
In the mean time I may give you one information that in the translitration given in
Gurbani.search here I find the use of word GuR with Dulaekad  matra as GoRoo.I dont know how you would like this.This is not my own thought pronunciation that is what i like to inform you my source for this.
Prakash.s.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Oct 26, 2011)

Prakash.s.bagga ji I don't see GoRoo anywhere as you state in the following,


> Gurbani.search here I find the use of word GuR with Dulaekad  matra as *GoRoo.*



I only seen the following,

*ਗੁਰ*  (gur);  ਗੁਰੂ (gurū)

Additionally I see the following 

ਗੁਰੁ as (gur), but I don't think that is right.  The "onkurh" is not sounded right in it. 

So I did the following as an attempt at correcting it,

ਗੁਰੁ (Gurô)

Sat Sri Akal.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 26, 2011)

ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਰਹੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
Guroo Gur Gur Karahu Guroo Har Paaeeai ||
गुरू गुरु गुरु करहु गुरू हरि पाईऐ ॥
Chant Guru, Guru, Guru; through the Guru, the Lord is obtained.

Ambarsaria ji,
The above is the line fron search Gurbani where you can clearly see the word GuRoo in use.(for the word GuR with Dulaekad under R)

Prakash.s.Bagga


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 26, 2011)

How about: ਗੁਰਿ?  
ਪੰਨਾ 19, ਸਤਰ 10
*ਗੁਰਿ* ਰਾਖੇ ਸੇ ਉਬਰੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਮੁਠੀ ਧੰਧੈ ਠਗਿ ॥੨॥
गुरि राखे से उबरे होरि मुठी धंधै ठगि ॥२॥
Gur rākẖe se ubre hor muṯẖī ḏẖanḏẖai ṯẖag. ||2||
Those who are protected by the Guru are saved; all others are cheated and plundered by deceitful worldly affairs. ||2||

ਮਃ 1   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]ਪੰਨਾ 20, ਸਤਰ 1
ਨਾਨਕ ਅਉਗਣ ਵੀਸਰੇ *ਗੁਰਿ *ਰਾਖੇ ਪਤਿ ਤਾਹਿ ॥੪॥੧੫॥
नानक अउगण वीसरे गुरि राखे पति ताहि ॥४॥१५॥
Nānak a▫ugaṇ vīsre gur rākẖe paṯ ṯāhi. ||4||15||
O Nanak, your demerits shall be forgotten; the Guru shall preserve your honor. ||4||15||
ਮਃ 1   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## Kanwaljit.Singh (Oct 26, 2011)

ਗੁਰਿ has been used when the immediate shabad that follows starts with ਰ, so it could be as a break in the word. Means ਗੁਰਿ is same as ਗੁਰ probably.


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## Ambarsaria (Oct 26, 2011)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਰਹੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
> Guroo Gur Gur Karahu Guroo Har Paaeeai ||
> गुरू गुरु गुरु करहु गुरू हरि पाईऐ ॥
> Chant Guru, Guru, Guru; through the Guru, the Lord is obtained.
> ...


Prakash.s.bagga ji I only use srigranth.org and the following for the same shabad as I indicated in my post,
(http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gur...d=59557#l59557)



> ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਰਹੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
> गुरू गुरु गुरु करहु गुरू हरि पाईऐ ॥
> Gurū gur gur karahu gurū har pā▫ī▫ai.
> Chant Guru, Guru, Guru; through the Guru, the Lord is obtained. (Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa)
> ...





> _Prakash.s.bagga ji who am I to do better than the masters but I translate it as follows,_
> _*
> Ambarsaria:  By recognizing “*__*(all is) *__*of the creator ”, “*__*(all is) *__*of the creator ”, the “guru” finds the creator*_


 


> *Note:*  The key issue is that the word below does not translate to chant/recite,
> 
> ਕਰਹੁ  (karahu)
> *[SIZE=-1]Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary[/SIZE]* [SIZE=-0] ਕਰੋ, ਬਣਾਓ! ਕਰਦੇ ਹੋ, ਕਰ ਰਹੇ ਹੋ, ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ, ਕਰੀਏ, ਕਰ ਲਵੇਂ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ  ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਨਾ ਕਰਹੁ ਪਾਪਿਸਟ ਹਤਿਆਰੀ॥ {ਸੋਰ ੪, ਵਾਰ ੨੩:੨ (651)}। ਵਣਜੁ ਕਰਹੁ  ਵਣਜਾਰਿਹੋ ਵਖਰੁ ਲੇਹੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ॥ {ਸਿਰੀ ੧, ੨੩, ੧:੧ (22)}। [/SIZE]
> ...


 http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1401&punjabi=t&id=59557#l59557

The above does not use "guroo" in phonetics/pronunciation.

I find srigranth.org much better as I have online access to Bhai Manmohan Singh Teeka and Prof.Sahib Singh ji's Darpan.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 26, 2011)

We can get correct and true meanings only we get the understanding of grammer of the words involved in the quote.
The use of words like "vishaal or WahGuru" are only someones personal views.These meanings do not necessarily meet the grammatical requrement.

Thus it is very important to get to know the grammer of three words under consideration.I expect Ambarsaria ji would make the best clarification from Prof Sahib Singhs Book of grammer.

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## ravneet_sb (Oct 26, 2011)

SAT SRI AKAAL,

In common man,s language

"Gur" here we use as the art/ skill or artist  or Kaala

"Guro" as the one who owe this skill in physical form 

"Guroo"  as the abstract form   Page 8 Line 10 Page 27 Line 18 it refers as abstract form of "Guroo"  

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 [/FONT]


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 27, 2011)

Ravneet sb ji,
This time you are very very correct.I appreciate your meanings.
Now you should find how these meanings can be corroborated in context of Gurbani.
In Gurbani there is no reference of any physical form so this would make  the understanding quite different from common mans language.
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Oct 27, 2011)

ravneet_sb said:


> SAT SRI AKAAL,
> 
> "I" don't know
> and my apology "I" have not read most of writtings.
> ...



To me that sounds a bit too close to ..... like.as in...."Jaisee meh aveh SACH KI BANI..tessrra kareehn GYAN ve LALO".......GURU NANAK JI !!...AS IT comes. ( SO i sing/write).....SACH ILLUMINATES......BUT Guru Ji doesnt use "I" write....nay..not even "i" write....the I and the Me are left out entirely..JIOS..Lets emulate our FATHER...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Oct 27, 2011)

Its ALWAYS..and ONLY...*GURBANI*...in SGGS.     ONLY the *GURU* has *GURBANI*..not any individual... Bani GURU....GURU hai BANI..in Anand Sahib Guru Amardass emphsisies this POINT leaving no doubt whatsoever.( GURU is  BANI and BANI is GURU )


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 27, 2011)

GIYANI JARNAIL SINGH Ji,
I respect your views but I have a point to make.
If we say (GURU is BANI and BANI is GURU).......Here I think the word GURU is for word GUR with a matra of Dulaikad as I observe.
If we look at the SABAD realted to this in Raagu NUT M 4 pp 982 we would find in the very next line of the SABAD ,the BANI is being refered with THE WORD GUR (This word GUR has a matra of AUKAD) 
In above context you can see that BANI is GUR not GURU as we understand.
I would request you to rectify if you find me wrong.
With regards
Prakash.S.Bagga


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