# GGS Being Burnt



## Abneet (Sep 20, 2014)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmvxOD5wWW8#t=244

Anyone know what kind of seva this is? Is this beadbi of GGS?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 21, 2014)

Abneet said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmvxOD5wWW8#t=244
> 
> Anyone know what kind of seva this is? Is this beadbi of GGS?




Its part of an elaborate conspiracy hatched a decade or so ago....Like the Arabian Nights Tale about New Lamps for Old exchange trick...

1. To get RID of ALL earlier SGGS Birs....all over the world....by saying they are Old/should be cremated..etc etc
2. Next Introduce new "Changed/altered/adulterated versions...slowly and surely....
3. By the end of a decade..there will be ONLY the adulterated/changed versions of the SGGS available.


1a. The DT and related anti-sikh elements first began with altered versions of banis in Gutkas...( No authority vets Gutkas..hence since the early 20th century Gutkas of all shapes and sizes with banis and non-banis mixed have been published by booksellers at their own discretion)
1b. NOW they have the Altered version of the SGGS...one in which they REMOVED the FOUR DANDEES before and After the word    [[ JAP ]] and thus tried to show that the word Jap is part of the Moolmantar according to them.
1c. Their Version of the SGGS has ADDED BINDIS and Tipees etc - This is as per Grammar BUT to "ADD" them to the SGGS when Guru Ji DIDNT..is not allowed.  IF one DT can ADD bindees..another Jawaddee T can add adhaks..another can REMOVE Siharees..aunkaars (Bhanumoortee version of SGGS commisioned by the DELHI GMC ).

This is the pattern of this huge conspiracy to SUBVERT the SGGS !!


SIKHS all over the world have to WAKE UP....and STOP this . ALL SGGS birs have to be PRESERVED...as Historical Birs....today a Bir printed in 2014 may be Brand New..But say..300 years down the line...in 2314..that Bir will be 300 years old and just as valuable historically as a Bir written in 1708 is for US TODAY !!!  I have Birs in my possession which are early 1950....they are already historical...65 years and counting..and from that period the PRINTERS have been making so many PRINTNG MISTAKES..that only by comparing between birs could the mistake be seen...recognised....my dad on his Akhand Paath Raols all over the country Gurdwaras knew of several such "differences" between Birs printed by different BOOK SELLERS !!!  TODAY..its BIG BUSINESS to EXCHANGE NEW BIRS for OLD BIRS which are then cremated as "sewa"....???? Are Sikhs FOOLS or what ??? Which community burns its TREASURES...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 21, 2014)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Its part of an elaborate conspiracy hatched a decade or so ago....Like the Arabian Nights Tale about New Lamps for Old exchange trick...
> 
> 1. To get RID of ALL earlier Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Birs....all over the world....by saying they are Old/should be cremated..etc etc
> 2. Next Introduce new "Changed/altered/adulterated versions...slowly and surely....
> ...



Some attachments


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 21, 2014)

The Enemy who is holding tightly to all the subterfuge, lies etc taught as OK in his Scriptures..has very cleverly divided the Sikhs....today if you point out a "mistake" ....say by DT..the die hard DT followers will close their eyes..and mutter..NO WAY..our waddeh Babab ji..our Bhinderawallah..our Gyani so and so..
If you point out  a mistake by the nandsar group..their die hard followers will close their eyes and  shout..snat ka nindak..atheist..nastik..communist..Missionary !!!
SIKHS are now BLIND and DEAF and DUMB...when their "group.jatha/taksal is involved....SHUT UP..maryada..Prampara..Brahmgyani  sri 108..does so many paaths..how many YOU do ??...and have totally forgotten the DHARRAH that GURU ARJUN JI WRITES about in SGGS...the Dharra with the GURU..with Akal Purakh..for TRUTH..and NOT stand with HUMANS...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 21, 2014)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> The Enemy who is holding tightly to all the subterfuge, lies etc taught as OK in his Scriptures..has very cleverly divided the Sikhs....today if you point out a "mistake" ....say by DT..the die hard DT followers will close their eyes..and mutter..NO WAY..our waddeh Babab ji..our Bhinderawallah..our Gyani so and so..
> If you point out  a mistake by the nandsar group..their die hard followers will close their eyes and  shout..snat ka nindak..atheist..nastik..communist..Missionary !!!
> SIKHS are now BLIND and DEAF and DUMB...when their "group.jatha/taksal is involved....SHUT UP..maryada..Prampara..Brahmgyani  sri 108..does so many paaths..how many YOU do ??...and have totally forgotten the DHARRAH that GURU ARJUN JI WRITES about in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...the Dharra with the GURU..with Akal Purakh..for TRUTH..and NOT stand with HUMANS...



This is Bhannoomortee from kerala who REMOVED all the aunkarras and siharees from his version of SGGs..he says these are SUPERFLOUS !! He was Given a GRANT of KRORS to do this Brilliant Work by the DGMC that runs Delhi Gurdwars..with Gurdwara Managemnts like this..do we need McLeods and Pashauras to sabotage our Guru Granth Sahib Ji ??


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 21, 2014)

With so many Youths depending on the INTERNET/APPS etc..for their SGGS/GURBANI/etc etc..and knowing fully well that just about ANYONE can UPLOAD just about any version of SGGS on the NET...doesnt this ring bells ??? The HARD COPY VERSIONS of SGGS are being DESTROYED....New changed versions are being printed and DISTRIBUTED large scale FREE of charge...and the NET versions is a Free fall situation....SIKHS NEED TO WAKE UP FAST..and RISE above their DTs and Jathas..and stand by the GURU....


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 21, 2014)

Hand written Mool mantar by GURU JI..and notice that even MORE EXTRA FOUR DANDEES added to make 110% SURE that JAP is the TITLE !!!


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## Abneet (Sep 21, 2014)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> With so many Youths depending on the INTERNET/APPS etc..for their Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji/GURBANI/etc etc..and knowing fully well that just about ANYONE can UPLOAD just about any version of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on the NET...doesnt this ring bells ??? The HARD COPY VERSIONS of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are being DESTROYED....New changed versions are being printed and DISTRIBUTED large scale FREE of charge...and the NET versions is a Free fall situation....SIKHS NEED TO WAKE UP FAST..and RISE above their DTs and Jathas..and stand by the GURU....



I never thought about that. As long as the authentic GGS is not altered we are fine but these cowards burning the GGS simply because it is old are doing the worst kind of beadbi possible in their lifetime. GGS is the highest of all and they are just throwing it away in a river? I am kind of concerned if there are versions online how one can have mistakes that can mislead the whole panth. Clearly we need more foreign Sikh scholars in the youth to make sure the future doesn't become bleak. This is happening in Malaysia too Gyani Ji...do you think gurdwara committees around Malaysia can stand against this? Akal Takht is not going to do *****. If people are getting rid of GGS this quick Kalyug is deeper than I thought...........


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## Abneet (Sep 21, 2014)

Damdami Taksal sundar gutka is altered too?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 21, 2014)

Humans just LOVE "rituals"...empty and hollow...the hollower they are the more they are loved...so many types of BEKAAR 'sewa" have sprung up to satisfy these hollow people...some have bonfires and gather around..some go about putting colours , otehrs go on yatras to mountain tops...and "walk" thinking the harder one walks..the more pleased Guru Ji is...some pay half baked granthis to do paaths, ardasses. whisper mantars jantars on water to cure them..others go circumabulating just about anything..nishan sahibs, gurdwaras, palkis, sukhasan rooms, whatever...others visit Mulsim Pir Graves..deras..wishing wells, holy pools..holy fountains..name it and we have it...ALL these are MUCH MUCH EASIER than reading Gurbani, PRACTISING GURBANI..and Changing your LIFE..and IF thats what the GURU DEMANDS..then too bad..we dont have time for Him..and his Gurbani instructions to be Satnam , fearless, enemyless, truthful etc etc etc......its much easier to plaster him with PURE GHEE and cremate HIM...wow..a TRIP to the seaside..what could be more enjoyable and guise of sewa ???  Empty LIP SERVICE is so much fun  and:dark-blue-pargi: easier done...


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## Ishna (Sep 21, 2014)

Ideally someone needs to carefully transcribe an electronic SGGS and have it reviewed for accuracy against an authentic bir and that electronic version carefully treasured. Can't burn that.

Also, Abneet, regards nitnem gutka; refer first 13 pages SGGS.


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## notanotherloginplease (Sep 21, 2014)

Its better to scan and copy the original version (hand written) and then publish it online after verification with md5 and Sha1 hashes to various overseas databases. 

These revisions of actual Guru Granth are most dangerous. I don't understand how could authorities in Punjab allow this. The only thing which I thought SGPC is responsible for is preservation of Sikh scriptures/monuments.

Have they forgotten story of Guru Har Rai Ji and their son Ram Rai ji. I wonder that episode has been planned by Akal Purkh to warn future sikhs about such things. There are already so many problems and struggles going on to understand bani correctly and now this. Very depressing. :58:


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 22, 2014)

The Singh Sabha Movement and the Gurdwara Restoration Movement 1920 which led to the Sikh Control of All "HISTORICAL GURDWARAS ONLY" under SGPC and the formation of the Shiromani Akali dal to safeguard Sikha dn Punjab interests, was after a huge struggle of over 20 years, thousands jailed, tortured, families destroyed, people exiled, properties confiscated etc etc and ONLY the Break out of World War I and then WWII tipped the British "favour" towards the Sikhs and Punjab because they needed Cannon Fodder !!! Over 100,000 Sikhs died in the World wars defending Europe and the British Empire. The British "goat" gave milk but added minggannah  (Goat manure)...that is they were froced to take abck control of the hugely welathy Gurdwaras form their Hindu Lackey mahants and give them tot he Sikh KAUM..but they then went ahead tricked the SIKHS into having the SGPC constituted under INDIAN LAW....and this was achieved via COMPLIANT SIKHS !!! Thus the SIKHS are the ONLY Religious Group in India today that ahve to WAIT fort eh NOD FROM NEW DELHI to "elect" the SGPC which was given the misnomer as Parliament of Sikhs.

2. Anyway everything being level..the SGPC managed to run well because the PEOPLE running it were SIKHS of the HIGHEST morality. The SGPC did NOT discourage the MAHANTS and DERADAARS to back off..they licked their wounds..and bided their time....EACH TIME the SGPC and Akali dal wnated to sit down and forge a common maryada, common laws, rules of conduct etc etc..these Mahants and dera babas and Taksals would STICK their FOOT In the door.  This is why the SRM took over 3 decades..to finalise...and the Mahant dehdharees  DERAS and taksalis etc managed to EXTRACT their Pound of FLESH by insisting on Raagmala, etc etc..while  REJECTING THE SRM of AKAL TAKHAT and maintaining their own INDIVIDUAL MARYADAS. Talk about having the Cake and eating it at the same time. Whenever any issue came up they loudly proclaimed their "allegiance" to Akal takhat as Supreme..and then right about turn and follow their own NOSES !!

2. The SGPC noticed the huge amounts of rpinting mistakes, discrepencies in the individual booksleer printed SGGS birs and decided to make an AUTHENTIC COPY comparing to the Kartarpuri Bir handwritten by Bhai Gurdass Ji and make PHOTO PLATES so that in future no more mistakes could be attributed to the "printers error...composer error..)  The moment wind of this got out...the VESTED INTERESTS (Booksellers of Bazaar mai sewan Amritsar who had been profiting hugely form the printing a nd sale of self made Gutkas, pothis birs etc etc - can anyone imagine a Bookseller choosing Shabads all by himslef..and making a POTHI called AMRIT KIRTAN..which then became HIS COPYRIGHT..and DEFACTO POTHI to do Kirtan form for 100% ragis etc....THIS MISLEADING POTHI has so much NON-GURBANI included inside it  a nd for DECADES no one ven bothered to ask ???? Prof darshan Singh Ragi for 65 years and Ex jathedar of Akal Takat ADMITS..he sang "NON-GURBANI" fro ages becasue he was under the impression that whatever inside the AMRIT KIRTAN was GURBANI !!! And this Ragi is being "hanged from every tree branch" as one who "CHANGED HIS MIND"....he did not change his mind..he became ENLIGHTENED as tot eh SORDID TRUTH of "NON GURBANI being packaged as GURBANI in Amrti Kirtan copyrighted book by a Book seller !!! ALL SGGS BIRS were Printed and COPYRIGHT by these Booksellers........So who came to the AID of these vested interests Book sellers..the SANTS DERAS TAKSAALS of course...simply because it was now SGPC Vs the Booksellers..and the "MAYA" was on the Booksellers side !!!

The DERA GROUP and the Booksellers group began a tsunami propoganda that the SGPC was "changing" the holy SGGS....STOP them at any cost !!  A storm arose...no amount of LOGIC..arguments..facts..helped...finally the SGPC decided tyo surrender and gave in.  The PHOTO PLATED SGGS could ONLy be printed in 2 or more SAINCHEES..pothi...and the SGGS BIR..was ONLY to be Printed and sold by the Booksellers.  The MISTAKES in the Mool Mantar Place or POSITION was left muddied. Mistakes were left as is ( and this led to a Book by the taksali MahaGyani titled.." The Hundreds of Mistakes in the SGGS"...which is actually an act of SABOTAGE of the Authenticity of the GURU because it attempts to show the SGGs is full of mistakes..esp since the Taksaal was one of the main opponents of CORRECTING these in the first place.  A perfect example of Running with the Dogs and Hunting with the Foxes)

3. NOW this is the same TAKSAAL whcih is Printing and distributing the CHANGED and adulterated SGGS - beginning with Gutkas..Sainchees and then BIRS. NOW when the SGPC is a ZOMBIE Organisation incapable of anything and the jathedars are under the thumb of Badal+Taksaal+RSS+GOI !!!
The Taksaal and ALL the REST Deras...Nandsarihas, rarrewallhs, pehovahs, dhadriwallhs etc etc all still adhere to their OWN INDIVIDUAL VARYING Maryadas..while still giving "full support" to  the SRM, Akal Takhat blah blah blah...what a beautiful example of LIP SERVICE. The jathedars, and SGPC are all "taksali" or ex-taksali..so theres no problem or fear of any action or mildest of rebukes...

WHY ?? Because the EXACT SAME THING was foisted on to the SIKHS under  a granth called DG...There were 32 versions of DG in 1932...a BRITISH SPONSORED Cmmittee made up of clerks and storekeepers etc..sat down  and "CORRECTED" the 32 birs..and compiled ONE...( How a SIKH can CORRECT his GURU's GURBANI escapes attention)... Then this Granth underwent as many as 10 CHANGES...Handwritten copies of this "granth" show evidence which is embarrassing to its supporters....becasue the ORIGINALS DONT CARRY titles of "banis"..they dont ahve Patshai 10 in the beginning..and the contents match word for word PURANIC Hindu Granths and writings...the "banis" are shown to be "selected randomly" from various long compositions and Given Titles and beginnings which DONT EXIST in the Original Handwritten copies. All this is highly embarrasing and hard to deemphasise !!!  This also due to the BOOKSELLERS who have made arbitrary decisions !!! Whatever SELLS..they DO !!! So if a Gutka sells well with Patshai 10 on it..well plaster a lot of patshai 10 on every page..if a Gutka sells even better with Mukhwaak patshai 10..then..well add Mukhwaak to each "bani"..who cares ??  Who is to ask why there NO such Mukhwaak/Patshai/10 etc on the ORIGINALS ?? who cares..who addded..

Now SAME people..same players....same game Plan...to undermine the SGGS and break the SIKH's BOND with His One and ONLY GURU...by creating confusions..misunderstandings..

SIKHS NEED TO WAKE UP..save your Historical Gurdwaras, buildings, Guru Havelis, Guru Forts, Books, Literature, SGGS handwritten etc...Hukmnamahs, artifacts...EVERYTHING is being demolished...destroyed...burnt...erased...we need to wake up.  
http://www.sikhmarg.com/2010/0502-utaar.html


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## Abneet (Sep 22, 2014)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> The Singh Sabha Movement and the Gurdwara Restoration Movement 1920 which led to the Sikh Control of All "HISTORICAL GURDWARAS ONLY" under SGPC and the formation of the Shiromani Akali dal to safeguard Sikha dn Punjab interests, was after a huge struggle of over 20 years, thousands jailed, tortured, families destroyed, people exiled, properties confiscated etc etc and ONLY the Break out of World War I and then WWII tipped the British "favour" towards the Sikhs and Punjab because they needed Cannon Fodder !!! Over 100,000 Sikhs died in the World wars defending Europe and the British Empire. The British "goat" gave milk but added minggannah  (Goat manure)...that is they were froced to take abck control of the hugely welathy Gurdwaras form their Hindu Lackey mahants and give them tot he Sikh KAUM..but they then went ahead tricked the SIKHS into having the SGPC constituted under INDIAN LAW....and this was achieved via COMPLIANT SIKHS !!! Thus the SIKHS are the ONLY Religious Group in India today that ahve to WAIT fort eh NOD FROM NEW DELHI to "elect" the SGPC which was given the misnomer as Parliament of Sikhs.
> 
> 2. Anyway everything being level..the SGPC managed to run well because the PEOPLE running it were SIKHS of the HIGHEST morality. The SGPC did NOT discourage the MAHANTS and DERADAARS to back off..they licked their wounds..and bided their time....EACH TIME the SGPC and Akali dal wnated to sit down and forge a common maryada, common laws, rules of conduct etc etc..these Mahants and dera babas and Taksals would STICK their FOOT In the door.  This is why the SRM took over 3 decades..to finalise...and the Mahant dehdharees  DERAS and taksalis etc managed to EXTRACT their Pound of FLESH by insisting on Raagmala, etc etc..while  REJECTING THE SRM of AKAL TAKHAT and maintaining their own INDIVIDUAL MARYADAS. Talk about having the Cake and eating it at the same time. Whenever any issue came up they loudly proclaimed their "allegiance" to Akal takhat as Supreme..and then right about turn and follow their own NOSES !!
> 
> ...



imagine this is just the beginning of kalyug..................


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## Harry Haller (Sep 23, 2014)

Abneet said:


> imagine this is just the beginning of kalyug..................



no, it sounds more like a culture being destroyed, beats me why so many people are happy to concede 'its just kalyug' when clearly our history is being rewritten by those with an agenda. 

However it would be appear the enemy is more within than outside, kalyug????, no, this is not kalyug, just a combination of stupidity, ritualism and the desire for power.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 23, 2014)

Harry Ji..its Kal-Yug..meaning Period of the Machine...machivellian machines..remember the TERMINATOR series where the ROBOCOP guy Came BACK form the FUTURE to save...
WELL..heres how it works..

1. Back to the PAST...one of the mistakes that the Anonymous Gang that produced the Fake Literature..beginning with the Bhai "BALA" janamsakhi which glorifies all except Guru nanak ji and Mardana Ji...and then Fake banis, followed by Gurbilas books raagmala, and the "granth"...to SULLY the Name fo the Nanak House....is that they FORGOT to USE "AUTHENTIC" vocabualry/Grammar/languages...so a Janamsakhi purportedly got written by GURU ANGAD JI (becasue He wnated to find out more about Guru nanak Ji !!!!)..the vocubalary used exposes this as Late 17th century...the "Imposter Granth" uses ADHAK and BINDIS...which were never sued till beginning of the 1800's....and which are thus CONSPICOUSLY ABSENT in the SGGS !!!

Back to the FUTURE...what to do....Produce a SGGS with ADHAKS and BINDIS....and that demolishes the most powerful argument about authenticity of the Imposter Granth...and.....hey la la...when for DECADES the Taksaal has been STUBBORNLY sticking to the position of "SPEAK AS WRITTEN"...and ignoring common sense..refused to PRONOUNCE bindis and Adhaks where necessary in the SGGs and as proved by Prof sahib Singh in his Gurbani grammar....suddenly OVERNIGHT..the DHUMMA DT..goes ahead and PRINTS a SGGS with bindees and Adhaks....50 yaers down the line....BOTH GRANTHS will be ones having Bindees and Adahks !! ALL others will have been long burnt.  Decades of pronouncing MUSHkat as mushkt..and ignoring that this is a f{censored}e word and pronoucned MUSHAKAT (adhak pronounced but not written down)..the Dhumma printed SGGS has the ADHAK added !!!  This is like the English word Knife..the K is not pronounced...but any English teacher will teach that to hsi studnets..no need to REMOVE the K or cut it out...simialrly any good Gurbani teacher will teach to pronounce the bindees and adhaks BUT no need to add them as GURU ji didnt add them...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 23, 2014)

Dear All...

This is a LONG WAR....the Very First battle Gong was struck by the 5 year old Nanak, when HE put His Small FOOT down and point blank REFUSED to wear the "thread"...seeking the Logic and Theory behind it and demanding the Practical side of the Brahmin..No amount of pleading cajoling helped...the Number of bakras slaughtered, the village gathered, the Biradree crowd..relatives..etc etc..NOTHING SWAYED the GURU...and the BIPPAR knew the "Battle" has begun anew....the Earlier one with BUDDHA had been WON with the wholesale rout of Buddhism form the soil of Bharat..this was the New Challenger from Talwandi...

The Players ahve changed..many many times..BUT the WAR goes on...the Sri Chands back then...as The Bhatts describe them...Putrrehn kaul na palio..the SONS disobeyed the fathers...they burned with RAGE and anger..rebelled..and their faces blackend with anger....going so far as to KICK the GURU off his takhat..going to the Govt to sabotage/murder/fighting...using all sorts of trickery and all that to DEFEAT the GURGADEE of NANAK...5 year old Zorawar Singh once more had to stand in the WALLS of Sirhind to protect the budding Gurmatt Paath of Guru Nanak..

Fast Forward to TODAY....disregarding the Sacred GURBANI in SGGS...Jathedars and so called Sikh Leaders..PRAISE SRI CHAND as a Great reformer..propogator of Guru nanak jis SIKHI..have lobbied to have PUBLIC HOLIDAY on his birth while GURU ANGAD Sahib the Legitimate successor chosen by Guru Nanak is IGNORED !!! SRI Chand Akhand Paaths, Nagar Kirtans.. Gurpurabs...Public Holidays..and eugolistaion by Jathedars at level of Akal takhat no less...is it difficult to RECOGNISE the ROBOCOP (ROGUE) that has travelled through the CENTURIES...RAVAN is still at it...back then he wore a Janeau...and gotee on his bald head..today he has a FRONT..a Kirpan gatra wearing so called Amrtdharee jathedar no less..BUT make no MISTAKE..its the same DEMON....the same KHALNAYAK...

The same subterfuges, same tricks, same divide and rule..carried on from 1469...is gaining strength...the Bippar...the Nirmalas,...the Custodians of Gurdwars..the Mahants..the Massa ranggharrs..the British..the Present Bhagwa RSS Brigade..still having the same GOAL...to bring Guru nanak jis Hosue down like they did to the Hosue of Buddha...drive the Sikhs OUT if they dont SUBMIT to "absorption"...HUM HINDU NAHIN..is repulsive to these..and they wont STOP.  Macauliffee back in the early 20th cnetury used the TERM BOA CONSTRICTOR for Hidnuism vs Sikhism...and as its a well known fact..once the Boa or Python has got its victims in its COILS...the end is near....today Sikhs bow to multiple Granths, bow to stones, graves, celebrate manmattee days as holy..have rituals condemned in SGGS...carry out activities condemned by SGGS....have pictures of Gurus, dead holy men...babas, sri 108s etc etc..worship statues..pictures..pay for prayers, akhand paaths ardasses..hold days holy and unholy...bathe in holy rivers and visit holy places for redemptiona and sin washing when there is NO SUCH THING in Gurmatt...Gurdwars are NOT places for GYAAN but buying the Guru...selling the GURUbani..kiratan ardass paath etc..

Let there be no doubt..the battle of IDEOLOGIES is still waging fiercly.....the GURMATT TSUNAMI of Guru nanak ji caused a lot of pain to the ESTABLISHED LOOTERS..it still pains the modern looters...Guru Ji dared to ask the Brahmin..Brahmin..gaoo ko kar laveh ?? OH Brahmin..you call the Cow mother..yet you sell it..levy taxes on it..just have a look at the state of the cow in India today...its the worst in the world...HOLY COW is more than just a phrase...if only the wandering hordes of stray cows could speak....if the oppressed women could speak...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 23, 2014)

For all interested -
Purchase and keep/PRESERVE hard Copies of the following to compare when in DOUBT..

1. The Four Volume Shabadarth Pothis of SGGS published by SGPC 1950-1980's. These are printed by Lithocopy plates and contain original SGGS.
2. Manmohan Singh version of SGGS in 8 volumes.
3. Prof sahib Singh's 10 volume SGGS Darpan also contains Original SGGS.

SGGS BIRS printed before 2000.....Mostly accurate.

DONT GIVE AWAY any SGGS BIR to anyone.  NEVER EXCHANGE OLD for NEW..like Alaldins Lamp...the exchanger wants your GOOD Bir in exchange for his faulty one..BEWARE. JOINED LETTER BIRS/POTHIS are 100% authentic (must be printed before 2000 also)

LETS JOIN HANDS to do the REAL SEWA...preservation of our PIO DADDEH DA KHAZANAH...


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## notanotherloginplease (Sep 23, 2014)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> For all interested -
> Purchase and keep/PRESERVE hard Copies of the following to compare when in DOUBT..
> 
> 1. The Four Volume Shabadarth Pothis of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji published by SGPC 1950-1980's. These are printed by Lithocopy plates and contain original Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
> ...




Any idea where can we buy it? thanks


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 24, 2014)

The SGPC pothis and the others may be available from Booksellers.Amazon etc.
The Darpan of Sahib Singh is available for Download..i suggest download/print a Hard Copy and keep it safely.
The 8 vol Manmohan singh version is also sold by sgpc and bookshops..the Western Sikhs use it in their diwans as it has English.


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## Abneet (Sep 25, 2014)

harry haller said:


> no, it sounds more like a culture being destroyed, beats me why so many people are happy to concede 'its just kalyug' when clearly our history is being rewritten by those with an agenda.
> 
> However it would be appear the enemy is more within than outside, kalyug????, no, this is not kalyug, just a combination of stupidity, ritualism and the desire for power.



we are in the dark age of Kalyug and its just the beginning.


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## Harry Haller (Sep 25, 2014)

Abneet said:


> we are in the dark age of Kalyug and its just the beginning.



really....

I guess a time when Sikhs were in the forests, because there was a price for every Sikh head on a spear was just a walk in the park then!


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 25, 2014)

Abneet said:


> we are in the dark age of Kalyug and its just the beginning.



Despite GURU NANAK JI SAHIB spending His Time writing an ENTIRE SHABAD  to explain this Kalyug/Raam yug nonsense..SIKHS continue to beta this  DEAD HORSE !!!

GURU NANAK JI has written..clearly  and transparently that..its the  HUMAN and his MIND/Mann that is solely RESPONSIBLE for all his actions-  good and the bad and the Ugly and the Beautiful...Nothing could be  CLEARER..but its very very very CONVENIENT to blame..Klayug..ones  parents..ones childhood..broken marriage of  parents..divorce..torture..discrimination..bullyin  g..BLAH BLAH  BLAH..for ones FAILINGS....and the BEST FLOGGING HORSE especially among  the BABAS/DERAS/Mahapurash/Sri 108's..is KALYUG...Father rapes his 2  month old granddaughter..GHOR KALYUG hai Ji..mother in law burns the enw  bride in a gas cylinder explosion..GHOR Kalyug hai ji... 20 Year old  Grandson rapes his  98 year old grandmother...GHOR KALYUG hai ji...

GURU NANAK JI saw this HYPOCRACY..and wrote a SHABAD on it...!!! Read it  please and let the poor "Klayug" fellow go...its none of his  fault...call a spade a spade and admit it....when you are caught  stealing the Goluck..admit it...dont go around saying..OH its Kalyugs  fault..oh my father never gave me enough pocket money...oh my mother  sued to cane me daily whenever i stole from her purse...or Never  Mind..Its between ME and the GURU !!!   GURU NANAK JI already SAW  through this BS...psychology stuff...500 years ago !!!!

Regards to all kalyug hai ji types...No offense meant or taken...


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## notanotherloginplease (Sep 25, 2014)

Abneet said:


> we are in the dark age of Kalyug and its just the beginning.



Dont worry abneet ji, Its Kalyug and one of the drawbacks of it are that we are having more corrupted minds in this yug. 

ਕਲਜੁਗਿ ਰਥੁ ਅਗਨਿ ਕਾ ਕੂੜੁ ਅਗੈ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥੧॥


at the same time we have Guru Nanak's message, 

"ਕਲਜੁਗ ਮਹਿ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਪਰਧਾਨਾ ॥
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਪੀਐ ਲਾਇ ਧਿਆਨਾ ॥"

Let others do what they feel right, after all its all guru's Hukum. If there is no night , then who would respect sun? Lets us consider it as a wakeup call for us 

I never felt of a need about buying full guru Granth sahib in written form before, but now I do, and credit goes to  those brothers who burnt it..


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## Abneet (Sep 26, 2014)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Despite GURU NANAK JI SAHIB spending His Time writing an ENTIRE SHABAD  to explain this Kalyug/Raam yug nonsense..SIKHS continue to beta this  DEAD HORSE !!!
> 
> GURU NANAK JI has written..clearly  and transparently that..its the  HUMAN and his MIND/Mann that is solely RESPONSIBLE for all his actions-  good and the bad and the Ugly and the Beautiful...Nothing could be  CLEARER..but its very very very CONVENIENT to blame..Klayug..ones  parents..ones childhood..broken marriage of  parents..divorce..torture..discrimination..bullyin  g..BLAH BLAH  BLAH..for ones FAILINGS....and the BEST FLOGGING HORSE especially among  the BABAS/DERAS/Mahapurash/Sri 108's..is KALYUG...Father rapes his 2  month old granddaughter..GHOR KALYUG hai Ji..mother in law burns the enw  bride in a gas cylinder explosion..GHOR Kalyug hai ji... 20 Year old  Grandson rapes his  98 year old grandmother...GHOR KALYUG hai ji...
> 
> ...



I didn't say we Sikhs should label all problems because of Kalyug its just that there is little light over the cloud of darkness in this age. Again its Waheguru's hukam and the play he has set is being played. We can't change it and blame him for making all the worse. But I agree no need to blame all our problems because its Kalyug. It can play a part on it but again we should know better.


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## Abneet (Sep 26, 2014)

harry haller said:


> really....
> 
> I guess a time when Sikhs were in the forests, because there was a price for every Sikh head on a spear was just a walk in the park then!



Yeah those Sikhs still had faith in GGS different from today. No one alike Bhai Bota Singh can be found today. :whatzpointsing:


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## Harry Haller (Sep 26, 2014)

> I never felt of a need about buying full guru Granth sahib in written form before, but now I do, and credit goes to those brothers who burnt it..



It is good that history is being destroyed, some might even say an entire culture, just to inspire you to buy a full sggs. 



> I didn't say we Sikhs should label all problems because of Kalyug its just that there is little light over the cloud of darkness in this age



what cloud of darkness? there is no price in your head, you have a full belly, you have freedom, you have the potential to be anything. Are you suggesting dark spirits roaming around making everything bad? What exactly is a cloud of darkness? is one mentioned in the SGGS? What is so different from other ages? Are you taking inspiration from Jehovah's witnesses? should we building an ark in that case, for the coming flood?



> Again its Waheguru's hukam and the play he has set is being played



Ah, so your saying that its all Wahegurus fault! Waheguru invented Kalyug and now its coming, and there is nothing we can do, apart from maybe sacrifice a few chickens, 



> We can't change it and blame him for making all the worse. But I agree no need to blame all our problems because its Kalyug. It can play a part on it but again we should know better.



Ah so we cannot change it, but we cannot blame all our problems on 'him', but we should know better......yes, we should know better, we should know enough to realise that this sort of talk, in my ever so humble opinion, takes us back to pre Guru Nanakji days where fear begat rituals, and if the great man was here today, he would probably dismiss your kalyug with a wave of his hand. 

He stood against kalyug, he stood against everything represented by kalyug, his message was ever so simple, take responsibility!


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 26, 2014)

Look for the Kalyug Shabad that applies to this situation...not the metaphorical one...Kalyug mein Kirtan pardhana doesnt mean that Kirtan is NOT pardhana in ???other Yug ?? and thus if this question is answered correctly..Kirtan in Kalyug means something different from GHOR KALYUG HAI..its Kalyug fault ???

Kalyug raath etc is also NOT relevant to whats being said..that somehow its "Klayug" thats responsible...Our Gurus came in this same "yug"...and its MYTHICAL to claim that DWapur etc was 100% Full of 100% Do gooders..and there were no liars, no cheats..etc etc..or Satyug etc...and all the KOORR is only for Klayug ??

The "YUGS" are metaphors. Its the SAME HUMAN MIND that is the sinner/the sant/holy/unholy..throught the ages...Satyug is not magically all good and Kalyug is magically not all bad...its the MAN that is to blame.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 26, 2014)

an older discussion...

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/xf/threads/kalyug.32958/


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## Abneet (Sep 26, 2014)

harry haller said:


> It is good that history is being destroyed, some might even say an entire culture, just to inspire you to buy a full Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is the age of where the light represents good and the cloud of darkness is most people of this world not following the right way of truthfully living. Jaswant Singh Khaira did a speech using that symbolism. Also Guru Nanak met Kalyug in its form as Max Arthur Macauliffe stated in his translation of Janamsakhi.


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## Harry Haller (Sep 26, 2014)

> This is the age of where the light represents good and the cloud of darkness is most people of this world not following the right way of truthfully living. Jaswant Singh Khaira did a speech using that symbolism. Also Guru Nanak met Kalyug in its form as Max Arthur Macauliffe stated in his translation of Janamsakhi.



oh well, you need to tell that to 3HO, they seem to be celebrating the age of aquarius!

I am also slightly confused, your trying to argue that these yugs are real and that they exist, yet, you then refer to it as 'that symbolism', which one is it!


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 26, 2014)

That "Janamsakhi" has been proven False and so is its non-existent "author/Group of authors". It was purportedly authored by a lifelong HINDU "companion of Guru nanak ji ( to BALANCE the Muslim companion Bhai Mardana Ji !!! ) who Never existed becasue he is not mentioned by anyone including Bhai Gurdass Ji who has written his historically accurate 40vaars and is the calligrapher of the AAD GRANTH under direct supervision of Guru Arjun Ji ).
This Janamsakhi is very DEROGATORY towards the House of Nanak and very complimentary to the REVOLTED by-line beginning with Sri Chand the rebellious son of Guur Nanak ji and the sons of Guru Angad Ji, Guru Ramdass Ji, Guru Har rai Ji and others about whom it is written as "the sons who disobeyed the father, went MAD with ANGER at being bypassed for Gurgadee etc etc etc...This Parallel IMPOSTORS LINE of Guru Claimants was very very STRONG and gave lots of trouble to Guru Arjun Ji, and others.
TODAY...just look at the power of this LOBBY..it has managed to get a PUBLIC HOLIDAY declared for Sri Chand Birthday, when there is NO SUCH for GURU ANGAD Ji's Gurpurab !!! IF that can happen TODAY..imagine the powers be that were at work post Guru Nanak Jis passing...and Gurmatt was just a "child"...although then as today there was a POWERFUL ANT-SIKH Govt and authority at work also..Back then was.."FINISH THEM OFF"..today its ASSIMILATE THEM...

Macauliffe simply "translated"...just as the Gurbilas patshai Chhevin was also FIRST TRANSLATED by a MALAYSIAN GRANTHI....and SECOND TIME again also in a MALAYSIAN GURDWARA by a professor from Punjab who stayed in the same Gurdwara as the Original translator !!!( and pretended to be a simple GRANTHI working on a secret project !!) BUT that doesnt mean...its all true..

One will have to choose..IS Klayug a real living breathing DEMON (Mahapursh/waddehbabaji/sri 108 gappis like hari singh rnadhawa thakur singh gyani pehova etc etc group) or just a METAPHOR....for TIME...IF you beleive in the fire breathing Dragons and Harry Potter stuff..then this is right up your alley...welcome to the world of Arthur and Knights of the Round Table (Sants of the Round Pugghs... and CHOLAS instead of Teghs and Barchhas !!! Read Guru nanak Jis GURBANI about how such DEMONS were supposed to BLIND the MUGHAL ARMIES of Babr...and defeat the Mughals attacking India...But the REALITY as Guru nanak ji saw with His own eyes is described beautifully in his Shabads to bhai lalo...There were NO round puggh chols wearing ANGELS in satyug..or Gopi swinging sants in Dwapur and there are No fire breathing flesh eating demons in kalyug...GURBANI is for us Humans to IMPROVE OUR DAILY LIVES....not have nightmares about the weird monsters and dragons spewing fire from the sky..ha ha ha   those are FAIRY TALES or GAPP SHUPP..entertainment only for IDLE MINDS...a Sikhs mind is always on SATTNAAM...:interestedkudi:


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 26, 2014)

btw..the unholy and unseemly "haste" being shown to PROMOTE Sri Chand is actually a round about way to NEGATE the Gurgadee bestowed on Guru Angad Ji...!!! Subtle way to say that Guru nanak ji was WRONG..the rightful successor is Sri Chand who has been "wronged"...that is Why there is NO GURPURAB PUBLIC HOLIDAY for Guru Angad sahib Ji....when Sri Chand is a NOBODY as far as Gurmatt is concerned...if you count "blood line" then there are many many many such blood lines...which ones to choose from..Bedis to Bhallas  Sodhis to...Pehovas and ram rahims etc etc etc etc...


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## Abneet (Sep 27, 2014)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> That "Janamsakhi" has been proven False and so is its non-existent "author/Group of authors". It was purportedly authored by a lifelong HINDU "companion of Guru nanak ji ( to BALANCE the Muslim companion Bhai Mardana Ji !!! ) who Never existed becasue he is not mentioned by anyone including Bhai Gurdass Ji who has written his historically accurate 40vaars and is the calligrapher of the AAD GRANTH under direct supervision of Guru Arjun Ji ).
> This Janamsakhi is very DEROGATORY towards the House of Nanak and very complimentary to the REVOLTED by-line beginning with Sri Chand the rebellious son of Guru Nanak ji and the sons of Guru Angad Ji, Guru Ramdass Ji, Guru Har rai Ji and others about whom it is written as "the sons who disobeyed the father, went MAD with ANGER at being bypassed for Gurgadee etc etc etc...This Parallel IMPOSTORS LINE of Guru Claimants was very very STRONG and gave lots of trouble to Guru Arjun Ji, and others.
> TODAY...just look at the power of this LOBBY..it has managed to get a PUBLIC HOLIDAY declared for Sri Chand Birthday, when there is NO SUCH for GURU ANGAD Ji's Gurpurab !!! IF that can happen TODAY..imagine the powers be that were at work post Guru Nanak Jis passing...and Gurmatt was just a "child"...although then as today there was a POWERFUL ANT-SIKH Govt and authority at work also..Back then was.."FINISH THEM OFF"..today its ASSIMILATE THEM...
> 
> ...



I think your referring to Bhai Bala Janamsakhi who is not even mentioned by Bhai Mani Singh or Bhai Gurdas ji.


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## Harry Haller (Sep 28, 2014)

Abneet said:


> I think your referring to Bhai Bala Janamsakhi who is not even mentioned by Bhai Mani Singh or Bhai Gurdas ji.



well that takes debate to a new level


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## Inderjeet Kaur (Sep 28, 2014)

Are any of the current online versions authentic?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 28, 2014)

Inderjeet Kaur said:


> Are any of the current online versions authentic?




Nope...GIGO..Garbage IN..garbage OUT..as in Computer geek lingo...the "online"  versions are based on the fake one on "paper".....Prof sahib Singh in his Bilingaul Essay debunks this Janamsdakhi via the fake shabads attributed to Guru Nanak ji which are MISSING form the SGGS....so there you have it...an "Biography..supposedly commissioned by Guru Angad ji to learn about Guru Nanak ji form a companion who NEVER went anywhere with Guru Nanak ji but is supposed to know it all...and who quotes Shabads that Guru Arjun Ji DID NOT SEE FIT to include in SGGS under Mahalla Pehla !!...


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## Kulbirrose (Sep 29, 2014)

Wahe Guru Ji Ki Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh!
 This kind of alteration has been done to almost all Holy Scriptures, including the Bible, Koran, and various others.  The British first tried this in India when they held India as a colony.  What is most interesting to note is that some of the more intelligent ones realized there is Huge Power in Guru's Word, and sought to alter Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, so the power would be reduced, and the Sikhs conquered.
 Food for thought.  urple-pargi:


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## Ishna (Sep 29, 2014)

How can fake shabads be inserted into SGGS without changing the numbering?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Oct 1, 2014)

Ishna said:


> How can fake shabads be inserted into Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji without changing the numbering?




Guru Arjun Ji foresaw that..hence the Iron clad numbering/totals etc...real Accountant style....

So the Additions come AFTER the LOCKED and SEALED Gate...the Raagmalla is appended AFTER the SEAL Mundawwnni Mahlaa Panjvahn.  SEVERAL other fake banis..even a recipe for INK etc etc were also there alongside the raagmalla...BUT all thsoe were removed in 1935 onwards...leaving the raagmala as NOT GURBANI but available for anyoen who insists on reading it. This COMPROMISE FORMULA was arrived at due to the Intense PRO raagmalla a lobbying by the ...Deras/Taksals/Sants/Sri 1008, Sri 111 etc etc...

The AAd Granth of Guru Arjun Ji, sealed by Mundawnni mahla Panjvahn ( Mundawnni means SEAL)...was REWRITTEN and recompiled By Guru GOBIND SINGH JI..and Guru Ji ADDED various Banis of Guru TEG BAHADUR JI SAHIB...in 31 Raags...One extra Raag only used by Guru teg bahadur Ji as well)..so essentially the Mahalla 9 banis are all over the SGGS..BUT Guru GOBIND SINGH JI kept the additions/numberings/totals exactly in LINE with thsoe put in by Guru Arjun ji...and Guru Gobind Singh ji once again PLACED the SAME LOCK>>SEAL>.Mundawwnni mahalla 5 at the END.  This is Rock Solid Proof that the Mundawwnni mah. 5 is indeed the Locked seal END of SGGS.  Anything after that is fake and not put in by Guru Gobind Singh ji.  Anyone can scream till the cows come home..but the Mundawwnni mah 5 is unbreakable...


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## ActsOfGod (Oct 1, 2014)

What is the raagmaala?  Does anyone know where it came from?  Who authored it?  Are there any old Bir's in existence which do not have the raagmaala?


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## ActsOfGod (Oct 1, 2014)

Just looked this up.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragmala

Seems a bit suspicious, especially considering the following:

"This raagmala is nearest to the Hanuman Mat, but the arrangement of raags in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is nearer to the Saiv Mala and the Kalinath Mat which give primacy to Siri Raag."

"In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji no distinction has been made between raags and rdgims and all the measures employed have been given the status of raags, each one of them recognized in its own right and not as “wife” or “son” to another raag. In practice over a long stretch of time, Gurmat Sangeet, i.e. Sikh music, has evolved its own style and conventions which make it a system distinct from other Indian systems."

"There are 8 raags that are utilised in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that have not been mentioned in the Raagmala. These are: Bihagara, Wadahans, Manjh, Jaitsri, Ramkali, Tukhari, Prabhati and Jaijawanti."


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## ActsOfGod (Oct 1, 2014)

And this was a very informative article on the issue as well:

http://www.sikhanswers.com/sacred-literature-sikh-studies/raagmala/


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Oct 1, 2014)

ActsOfGod said:


> What is the raagmaala?  Does anyone know where it came from?  Who authored it?  Are there any old Bir's in existence which do not have the raagmaala?



Its a Long long story....

1. Bhai kahn Singh nabha Mahan Kosh has ample info...
2. The AKJ sites have ample evidence as well. One that I am sure has the info is www.tapoban.com (and its Archived Forums has good discussionson this ). Tapoban.com has the Book well researched and full of info on this on its site and it may be downloadable. Please do check it out.

3. Cutting long story short...its a CUT and Paste Job....so many do it now a days..but apparently it was also practised in the 16th century...
Raagmala in the SGGS..is a "small part" of the Original raagmala which is in a book written by madhav naal and its titles Kaam kandla.....and the BIGGEST PROOF of it being fake is that in the ORIGINAL BOOK..the NUMBERINGS are consequitive..BUT in the few stanzas INSERTED into the abck of the SGGS..Every Stanza is numbered [[ 1]]...which is against the Rules of Numbering Guru Arjun Ji used in the entire SGGS.  The COPYCAT fake who ADDED this Few Stanzas was either too stupid or trying to be clever....HIDING BEHIND a Brand NEW Number system..[1] and repeating the same [1] throughout !!! Or did he forget to count...or was he ignorant that [1] is followed by [2] and so on....   The FORGER who LIFTED the Chaupaii from BNG and Cut and pasted it into the Nitnem also used this same trick..but he was cleverer..he started form [1] and carried on....

4. By the way..this Exact Same "trick" is also used in the Kabio Baach benti Chaupaii...in its ORIGINAL PLACE in the Charitropkhyan sections of Bachitar natak Granth..its Stanzas are Consequitevly numbered....BUT when INSERTED into the NITNEM via GUTKAS..the Consequitive numberings were CHANGED to 1,2 3,4...????   What reason to CHANGE..the ORIGINAL STANZA number 378...to [[ 1]]...and  379 to [[2]] and so ON ??

And this "staged controversy" is giving ammunition to Sikhism enemies...to challenge the Divinity of SGGS as Not authored by the Sikh Gurus...PM Me for links to Islamic sites using this to attack Sikhisma nd SGGS. I dont want to publicise these for free..

NOTE: All the "arguments"....about  many SGGS Birs having "raagmala" and very few NOT having it...REINFORCE the Argument as to WHY the Present day FRENZY to CREMATE as many SGGS Birs all over the world....as can be done quickly....is the reason why this must be RESISTED IMMEDIATELY....100 years down the Line..in 3014...THIS will be the Exact same argument..."Show me which SGGS doesnt have Bindees...adhaks..which SGGS bir has [[Jap]] with Dandees ?? Show me which SGGS Bir has Moolmantar ONLy till Gurparsaad ?? etc etc..becasue..the ONLY SGGS Birs that will be allowed to "survive" are the altered ones...We have been FOOLED ONCE..by the Nirmalas and Udasis who took over our Gurdwaras and Granths and manufactured fakes while Sikhs hid in the forests riding on horseback for years on end...and if we are FOOLED a second time by the DERAWADEES descendants of these same Nirmalas/Udasis...and let them LOOT the real Khazanah and leave us with GLASS BEADS..then we deserve to be fooled....WAKE UP KHALSA JI...and Guard your Pio daddeh da Khazanah..!!!
[/FONT]


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## ActsOfGod (Oct 2, 2014)

Thank you Giani Jarnail Singh Ji, this is very educational.

I am very interested and curious to learn about the numbering system used in SGGS.  Where can I learn more about it and how it's organized?  If you have any details on this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Is there any possible spiritual message or relevance of the raagmala?  What purpose might it serve for one to read about the various raags in classical music?  I guess I'm wondering why the person would want to insert the verses into a spiritual text like SGGS, what would the motivation be?

It feels very strange that a composition that is not genuinely from Guru or anyone approved by the Guru should be sitting in the same bound volume as all the other real Gurbani.  It also feels odd to do matha tek to some composition that is kachi bani.  Don't know how others feel about it?  How do you reconcile this with your own feelings and thoughts?

AoG


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## Abneet (Oct 3, 2014)

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Guru-Granth-Sahib-can-be-sent-abroad-only-by-air-Akal-Takht/articleshow/35083598.cms

Now Akal Takht says GGS can only be transported through air? this is bogus! SGPC was supposed to make a printing facility here in the US and failed to do so and now they are making this statement responding to the bus incident of GGS in a shipping container (which is beadbi imho).


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 3, 2014)

Abneet said:


> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Guru-Granth-Sahib-can-be-sent-abroad-only-by-air-Akal-Takht/articleshow/35083598.cms
> 
> Now Akal Takht says GGS can only be transported through air? this is bogus! SGPC was supposed to make a printing facility here in the US and failed to do so and *now they are making this statement responding to the bus incident of GGS in a shipping container (which is beadbi imho*).



Abneet ji,

Guru Fateh.

Do you agree with the Akaal Takhat's decision? Please elaborate if you do, then why and if you do not then why not?

Please also elaborate your comments in *BOLD*.

1. What do you consider beidbi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in your own understanding?
2. Is there a difference between Guru Shabad and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? Please elaborate with your thoughts so we can learn from each other.

Input from all would be highly appreciated.

Thanks and regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Oct 3, 2014)

Well put Tejwant ji...as Guru nanak Ji has already suggested..Vaidah..pehllan ROG Pehchaann....OH Medic..First of all DIAGNOSE the Disease..only then can we commence the cure..


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## Abneet (Oct 6, 2014)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Abneet ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> ...


*I say Akal Takht is going too far with this decision. I can see their point of view but they don't understand that why not just suggest proper care of GGS when it's transported. Having it go through a plane is limiting the amount in my opinion even when SGPC said they would built a facility here US. They need to think of better solutions. *
Beadbi can be anything unproperly done to the GGS whether be poorly transporting it or not taking care of it in a mannerly way. Also beadbi I think could be taking text out of GGS and using it out of text to suit your purpose. Same thing as manmat or similar but again it's wrong.


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 6, 2014)

Abneet said:


> *I say Akal Takht is going too far with this decision. I can see their point of view but they don't understand that why not just suggest proper care of GGS when it's transported. Having it go through a plane is limiting the amount in my opinion even when SGPC said they would built a facility here US. They need to think of better solutions. *
> Beadbi can be anything unproperly done to the GGS whether be poorly transporting it or not taking care of it in a mannerly way. Also beadbi I think could be taking text out of GGS and using it out of text to suit your purpose. Same thing as manmat or similar but again it's wrong.



Abneet ji,

Guru Fateh,

I happen to agree with you about the plane part. In fact you will be able to find some posts about the matter when a plane was chartered to take the sggs to Toronto. For me it was a total waste of money which could have been spent for a better purpose and it made sggs our only Guru as idols/murtis tied with the seat belts.

 Having said that please respond to my question number 2.



> 2. Is there a difference between Guru Shabad and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? Please elaborate with your thoughts so we can learn from each other.



Lastly, you forgot to elaborate on the following:



> *now they are making this statement responding to the bus incident of GGS in a shipping container (which is beadbi imho).*
> 
> 
> Please also elaborate your comments in *BOLD* about beidbi in the above.



Was the bus stuffed in a shipping container? I am a bit confused by your assertion and what is your plan to bring the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji outside India?

Thanks

Tejwant Singh


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## Abneet (Oct 7, 2014)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Abneet ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh,
> 
> ...



Just saw a video explaining te situation that the guru Granth sahib a were in. Apparently there were over 100 GGS in the bus and no one was on that bus looking after them which lead to poor conditions in the end. First it was sent by ship then by bus. I do say GGS should have uttermost care and sgpc should of sent a seevadar or have someone atleast on the whole trip to look after the books I don't know why they could of thought of that earlier. Also carrying it on a plane that could of other substances could be a problem but in Canada and America we definitely need our own printing facility without hand of SGPC. Hopefully some gurmukhs in the future can make it happen. Also answer to the second question I don't see a major difference between gur shabad and GGS. I see gur shabad embodied in the GGS itself so I really don't see no difference.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Oct 8, 2014)

ActsOfGod said:


> What is the raagmaala?  Does anyone know where it came from?  Who authored it?  Are there any old Bir's in existence which do not have the raagmaala?



Here is a link to the most scholarly book published on this subject...

the Raagmala word for word was published in a book almost 21 years BEFORE the AAD GRANTH !!!....

http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuse...sp?ID=10228&page=4&CategoryID=1&Searched=W3GX

you will have to register an  account and gain access to Punjab Digital Library to read the whole book...(Account is FREE..so go ahead and REGISTEr and also HELP the PDL people to preserve our heritage...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Oct 8, 2014)

Then you will see solid proofs that even respected writers like Bhai Vir Singh can intentionally (or not..... if  we give them benefit of the doubt)...refuse to see FACTS and stick to their own opinion as TRUTH....So many English and Hindi authors and historians acknowledge Alam as poet of Akbars time and Bhai Vir Singh contiues to assert otherwise based on just his own surmission....
At First Bhai Vir Singh also OPPOSED the Raagmala as Gurbani...but then someone he didnt like...also agreed with the Ragamala opposition..which made Bhai Vir Singh overnight change his position declaring that he had discovered a "pothi" that would prove his point. Despite being asked several times the said "pothi" never saw the light of day..and till today no body knows anything about it..except that Bhai Vir Singh form Anti-raagmala became PRO ragamala...and began to support it in his Paper and writings...
The AKJ founder Bhai Randhir singh was a solid OPPONENT of Raagmala...and this Maryada was followed by MALAYSIAS BIGGEST GURDWARA..the tatt Khalsa Diwan which NEVER read the Raagmala at any Bhog of SGGS. Bhog was put at Mundawnni Mh 5.  This was a hot potato with violent supporters on BOTH sides..not until the early 2000's did the BABA Generation increase in numbers and the DERAWADEE SOCH smothered the SRM of Akal takhat.

In one small Gurdwara, a well known Supporter would always occupy the Pathis seat when BHOG time was near...and the ANTI gang would catch him by the waist and remove him forcefully to PREVENT his reading the Raagmala...till one fine day..he decided to be adamant  and caught the Palki legs with both hands and in the push-pull tussle the SGGS was hurled to the ground...That is the degree to which this poem ruled sikh hearts...the sight of the SGGS on the ground didnt hurt as much as not being able to read Raagmala...
And this was BEFORE..the Sikhs ahd even more issues to be divided on...meat eating..jaat paat..majha malwa..etc etc...Khalsitan..Badal vs Congress..Punjabi Suba etc etc...Now raagmala is a MINISCULE ISSUE....one among HUNDREDS...and the enemies REJOICE...


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## Harry Haller (Oct 8, 2014)

we do not need any help in destroying ourselves...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Oct 8, 2014)

Read the book and see how renowned scholars" /cheat/fabricate evidence thats fake and tell outright lies !! For decades Bhai Vir Singha nd babau teja Singh agree that Ragmala is kachi bani..then they fall out and bahi vir singh declares that even his fatehr Dr cahran Singh had "changed" his views from anti to Pro...and that this was proved by a "book" he ahd found in his bag..a book that no body ever saw...then another declared that a Prem Singh of Nabha has a certain book that proves something..it turns out that Prem Singh ahs never heard of the book he is supposedly having...."Scholars" going to great lengths to prove their right and all else wrong....one such indident happened between Maskin and Bhag Singh Ambala...Maskin brought a letter that supposedly had Bhag Singh APOLOGISE to Akal Takhat in the matter of DG.....when Maskin met Bhag Singh, the latter had weak eyesight  and wanted to look for his specs..and Maskin ji hurried him by saying..here take this pena dn sign it..dont you trust me..its a letter saying blah blah blah...and so Bhag Singh did sign and later found out the Letter didnt say "blah blah blah" but said "Bleh bleh bleh" and a so called Respected panth rattan like Maskin had tricked him into apologising for calling DG a Fake granth...so there you have it...with scholars like this we dont need any MCleods or Pashauras...we can do the job ourselves...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Oct 8, 2014)

Original Raagmala form Poet Alam - a Muslim Sufi Poet uisng f{censored}e words...and the PIRATED VERSION cut and pasted into SGGS ...

This attachment shows the ORIGINAL F{censored}E words as CORRECT..but when the Unknown pirate who copied it for cut+Paste into SGGS got ALL the F{censored}e words WRONG...

wow...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Oct 8, 2014)

attached Gif from page 30(32) of Shamsher Singh Ashoks book..


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## ActsOfGod (Oct 8, 2014)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> In one small Gurdwara, a well known Supporter would always occupy the Pathis seat when BHOG time was near...and the ANTI gang would catch him by the waist and remove him forcefully to PREVENT his reading the Raagmala...till one fine day..he decided to be adamant  and caught the Palki legs with both hands and in the push-pull tussle the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was hurled to the ground...That is the degree to which this poem ruled sikh hearts...the sight of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on the ground didnt hurt as much as not being able to read Raagmala...



This is so sad and heartbreaking to read.


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 9, 2014)

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Abneet ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the response. I have one request to make. Please post the URL of the video you saw so that we can all see what is in that video because most of what you have claimed to have seen on this ‘video’ is not only misleading but also totally false. If I were you I would research different sources and then form my opinion otherwise I am not taking my Sikhi responsibilities seriously and as a result it becomes a self-defeating prophecy. Before I debunk each of your false ‘factoids’ on which you based your personal opinion, I would like to say something first.

In the Sikhi spirit of full disclosure, I would like to say that this particular seva of bringing Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji saroops to North America via BC was done by my family’s two trusts, Satnam Education Society/Satnam Trust in BC and Nanak Parchar Sabha in Los Angeles, CA.

We have been doing this Seva since 1979 till one of the containers in which the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji saroops used to come in wooden crates (which was the norm and authorized by SGPC) was off loaded by the honchos of DSGMC from a ship in Bombay which was to sail to Long Beach CA because of the infighting between SGPC and DSGMC. The rumour was that there were other things like shoes in the container beside the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji saroops which was untrue and the DSGMC found out after opening the container in New Delhi. It had nothing but Saroops. The practice of bringing saroops to North America stopped then and we were not able to do this seva despite the increasing Sikh population on the continent.

In fact I did write a long post here on SPN with the details about it which I would request Aman ji to dig it up and repost it here if possible.

Abneet ji,

I will wait for the URL but let me take your post point by point.



> Just saw a video explaining the situation that the guru Granth sahib a were in.


Please share the video so all can see what you saw.



> First it was sent by ship then by bus.


Simply Incorrect and false. The bus with saroops was loaded on the ship and was driven to Khalsa school BC after it cleared the customs.



> Apparently there were over 100 GGS in the bus and no one was on that bus looking after them which lead to poor conditions in the end.


Why use the word 'Apparently' when you have claimed that you have seen the video and please explain what you mean by,





> ”100 GGS in the bus and no one was on that bus looking after them which lead to poor conditions in the end”.


What kind of poor conditions did you see them in the video? Please show it to us. Secondly, your number 100 is way off. The actual number of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is 441. I have no idea where you pulled out that number from



> I do say GGS should have uttermost care and sgpc should of sent a seevadar or have someone atleast on the whole trip to look after *the books* I don't know why they could of thought of that earlier.


Firstly, I am glad you called the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji *the books* because that is what they are until we study our Gurus' message, understand it and practice it in our daily life, then it becomes Guru Shabad. The fact of the matter is that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were given the maximum respect as possible. How do you want a sevadaar present on a bus in a cargo ship 24/7? This is a silly and impractical demand on your part to say the least.

You want Sevadaar to do what? Look after the Moortis/idols the way it seems you consider Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to be? It seems you have not given much thought in your post as a Sikh and believed in some nonsense from someone else rather than asking in this forum if anyone had any knowledge about it or finding the things yourself from multiple sources. Yes, there was a lot of hue and cry from many who showed their jealousy and envy but never came forward to do this seva, which is cowardice and cowardice not a Sikh make.



> Also carrying it on a plane that could of other substances could be a problem but in Canada and America we definitely need our own printing facility without hand of SGPC. Hopefully some gurmukhs in the future can make it happen.


You above idea was offered to SGPC by the Satnam Trust. SGPC had arranged to open one in North Carolina by Nimrata Haley's father(she is a christian now and is the governor of the state). The deal was bogus and it did not go through. I am personally in favour of getting the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in the crates loaded in a container from India because if we had printing press in North America, then it would be needed in all countries and cities in the world where Sikhs reside. and it would be a waste of money if printing press is used for this purpose only. It is a bad business decision. After all printing costs a lot of money and I am sure you are aware of that. I am not in favour of this but some members of my family are which is fine with me.

We received our numbers of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at Khalsa Care Foundation(KCF) which is a Gurdwara linked to Nanak Parchar Sabha. The bus to take the designated saroops to Houston was waiting and some were transferred there. 

I would like to share some things more about KCF.


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