# Need Of True Guru



## Sardara123

We need True Guru. Without SatGuru we cant achieve the liberation from the cycle of birth and death. Guru Ji tells us that without the Guru our true Self cant be known. Guru's Word has tremendous powers, undescribable powers. It sooths us and saves us from the terrible pains.

In the Following Shabad Guru Ji tells us the importance of a True Guru. He also makes us aware of the fact that a blind/false Guru  misleads his or her followers, those people who follow a blind Guru stay in the cycle of birth and death, they cant achieve liberation.


isrIrwgu mhlw 1 ]
suix mn BUly bwvry gur kI crxI lwgu ]
hir jip nwmu iDAwie qU jmu frpY duK Bwgu ]
dUKu Gxo dohwgxI ikau iQru rhY suhwgu ]1]
BweI ry Avru nwhI mY Qwau ]
mY Dnu nwmu inDwnu hY guir dIAw bil jwau ]1] rhwau ]
gurmiq piq swbwis iqsu iqs kY sMig imlwau ]
iqsu ibnu GVI n jIvaU ibnu nwvY mir jwau ]
mY AMDuly nwmu n vIsrY tyk itkI Gir jwau ]2]
gurU ijnw kw AMDulw cyly nwhI Twau ]
ibnu siqgur nwau n pweIAY ibnu nwvY ikAw suAwau ]
Awie gieAw pCuqwvxw ijau suM\Y Gir kwau ]3]
ibnu nwvY duKu dyhurI ijau klr kI BIiq ]
qb lgu mhlu n pweIAY jb lgu swcu n cIiq ]
sbid rpY Gru pweIAY inrbwxI pdu nIiq ]4]
hau gur pUCau Awpxy gur puiC kwr kmwau ]
sbid slwhI min vsY haumY duKu jil jwau ]
shjy hoie imlwvVw swcy swic imlwau ]5]
sbid rqy sy inrmly qij kwm k®oDu AhMkwru ]
nwmu slwhin sd sdw hir rwKih aur Dwir ]
so ikau mnhu ivswrIAY sB jIAw kw AwDwru ]6]
sbid mrY so mir rhY iPir mrY n dUjI vwr ]
sbdY hI qy pweIAY hir nwmy lgY ipAwru ]
ibnu sbdY jgu BUlw iPrY mir jnmY vwro vwr ]7]
sB swlwhY Awp kau vfhu vfyrI hoie ]
gur ibnu Awpu n cInIAY khy suxy ikAw hoie ]
nwnk sbid pCwxIAY haumY krY n koie ]8]8]


Siree Raag, First Mehl:
Listen, O deluded and demented mind: hold tight to the Guru's Feet.
Chant and meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord; death will be afraid of you, and suffering shall depart.
The deserted wife suffers terrible pain. How can her Husband Lord remain with her forever? ||1||
O Siblings of Destiny, I have no other place to go.
The Guru has given me the Treasure of the Wealth of the Naam; I am a sacrifice to Him. ||1||Pause||
The Guru's Teachings bring honor. Blessed is He-may I meet and be with Him!
Without Him, I cannot live, even for a moment. Without His Name, I die.
I am blind-may I never forget the Naam! Under His Protection, I shall reach my true home. ||2||
Those chaylaas, those devotees, whose spiritual teacher is blind, shall not find their place of rest.
Without the True Guru, the Name is not obtained. Without the Name, what is the use of it all?
People come and go, regretting and repenting, like crows in a deserted house. ||3||
Without the Name, the body suffers in pain; it crumbles like a wall of sand.
As long as Truth does not enter into the consciousness, the Mansion of the Lord's Presence is not found.
Attuned to the Shabad, we enter our home, and obtain the Eternal State of Nirvaanaa. ||4||
I ask my Guru for His Advice, and I follow the Guru's Advice.
With the Shabads of Praise abiding in the mind, the pain of egotism is burnt away.
We are intuitively united with Him, and we meet the Truest of the True. ||5||
Those who are attuned to the Shabad are spotless and pure; they renounce sexual desire, anger, selfishness and conceit.
They sing the Praises of the Naam, forever and ever; they keep the Lord enshrined within their hearts.
How could we ever forget Him from our minds? He is the Support of all beings. ||6||
One who dies in the Shabad is beyond death, and shall never die again.
Through the Shabad, we find Him, and embrace love for the Name of the Lord.
Without the Shabad, the world is deceived; it dies and is reborn, over and over again. ||7||
All praise themselves, and call themselves the greatest of the great.
Without the Guru, one's self cannot be known. By merely speaking and listening, what is accomplished?
O Nanak, one who realizes the Shabad does not act in egotism. ||8||8||

source: SikhiToTheMax


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## Sardara123

In the following Shabad Guru Ji tells us about the nature of the followers of a Blind(false) Guru.

Shabad Gurbani:


mÚ 3 ]
gurU ijnw kw AMDulw isK BI AMDy krm kryin ]
Eie BwxY clin AwpxY inq JUTo JUTu bolyin ]
kUVu kusqu kmwvdy pr inMdw sdw kryin ]
Eie Awip fuby pr inMdkw sgly kul fobyin ]
nwnk ijqu Eie lwey iqqu lgy auie bpuVy ikAw kryin ]2]


English Translation:

Third Mehl:
The disciples whose teacher is blind, act blindly as well.
They walk according to their own wills, and continually speak falsehood and lies.
They practice falsehood and deception, and endlessly slander others.
Slandering others, they drown themselves, and drown all their generations as well.
O Nanak, whatever the Lord links them to, to that they are linked; what can the poor creatures do? ||2||

source: SikhiToTheMax


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## spnadmin

*ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ 
sireeraag mehalaa 1 ||
Siree Raag, First Mehl:


 ਕੁੰਗੂ ਕੀ ਕਾਂਇਆ ਰਤਨਾ ਕੀ ਲਲਿਤਾ ਅਗਰਿ ਵਾਸੁ ਤਨਿ ਸਾਸੁ ॥ 
kungoo kee kaaneiaa rathanaa kee lalithaa agar vaas than saas ||
With the body of saffron, and the tongue a jewel, and the breath of the body pure fragrant incense;


  ਅਠਸਠਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਕਾ ਮੁਖਿ ਟਿਕਾ ਤਿਤੁ ਘਟਿ ਮਤਿ ਵਿਗਾਸੁ ॥ 
athasath theerathh kaa mukh ttikaa thith ghatt math vigaas ||
with the face anointed at the sixty-eight holy places of pilgrimage, and the heart illuminated with wisdom

 ਓਤੁ ਮਤੀ ਸਾਲਾਹਣਾ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਗੁਣਤਾਸੁ ॥੧॥ 
outh mathee saalaahanaa sach naam gunathaas ||1||
-with that wisdom, chant the Praises of the True Name, the Treasure of Excellence. ||1||

 ਬਾਬਾ ਹੋਰ ਮਤਿ ਹੋਰ ਹੋਰ ॥ 
baabaa hor math hor hor ||
O Baba, other wisdom is useless and irrelevant.

 ਜੇ ਸਉ ਵੇਰ ਕਮਾਈਐ ਕੂੜੈ ਕੂੜਾ ਜੋਰੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
jae so vaer kamaaeeai koorrai koorraa jor ||1|| rehaao ||
If falsehood is practiced a hundred times, it is still false in its effects. ||1||Pause||
*





*  ਪੂਜ ਲਗੈ ਪੀਰੁ ਆਖੀਐ ਸਭੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥ 
pooj lagai peer aakheeai sabh milai sansaar ||
You may be worshipped and adored as a Pir (a spiritual teacher); you may be welcomed by all the world;

 ਨਾਉ ਸਦਾਏ ਆਪਣਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਸਿਧੁ ਸੁਮਾਰੁ ॥ 
naao sadhaaeae aapanaa hovai sidhh sumaar ||
you may adopt a lofty name, and be known to have supernatural spiritual powers

 
  ਜਾ ਪਤਿ ਲੇਖੈ ਨਾ ਪਵੈ ਸਭਾ ਪੂਜ ਖੁਆਰੁ ॥੨॥ 
jaa path laekhai naa pavai sabhaa pooj khuaar ||2||
-even so, if you are not accepted in the Court of the Lord, then all this adoration is false. ||2||



 ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਥਾਪਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਮੇਟਿ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ 
jin ko sathigur thhaapiaa thin maett n sakai koe ||
No one can overthrow those who have been established by the True Guru.


 ਓਨਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਹੈ ਨਾਮੋ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ 
ounaa andhar naam nidhhaan hai naamo paragatt hoe ||
The Treasure of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, is within them, and through the Naam, they are radiant and famous.
 ਨਾਉ ਪੂਜੀਐ ਨਾਉ ਮੰਨੀਐ ਅਖੰਡੁ ਸਦਾ ਸਚੁ ਸੋਇ ॥੩॥ 
naao poojeeai naao manneeai akhandd sadhaa sach soe ||3||
They worship the Naam, and they believe in the Naam. The True One is forever Intact and Unbroken. ||3||

 ਖੇਹੂ ਖੇਹ ਰਲਾਈਐ ਤਾ ਜੀਉ ਕੇਹਾ ਹੋਇ ॥ 
khaehoo khaeh ralaaeeai thaa jeeo kaehaa hoe ||
When the body mingles with dust, what happens to the soul?


 ਜਲੀਆ ਸਭਿ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਉਠੀ ਚਲਿਆ ਰੋਇ ॥ 
jaleeaa sabh siaanapaa outhee chaliaa roe ||
All clever tricks are burnt away, and you shall depart crying.

 ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮਿ ਵਿਸਾਰਿਐ ਦਰਿ ਗਇਆ ਕਿਆ ਹੋਇ ॥੪॥੮॥ 
naanak naam visaariai dhar gaeiaa kiaa hoe ||4||8||
O Nanak, those who forget the Naam-what will happen when they go to the Court of the Lord? ||4||8||

** Sri Raag*
* Guru Naanak Dev ji*
* Ang 17*​


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## Archived_Member1

> Those chaylaas, those devotees, whose spiritual teacher is blind, shall not find their place of rest.
> Without the True Guru, the Name is not obtained. Without the Name, what is the use of it all?
> People come and go, regretting and repenting, like crows in a deserted house. ||3||




true, but how do we find the name?  i see a lot of shabads telling us not to forget the name, please post how we find it in the first place.


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## spnadmin

Are you asking me or Sardara123? Whoops!!! You already have the Naam. Remember that you have it, and you will know where to find it.


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## Sardara123

Jasleen Ji:

please read all gurbani posts posted under:
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/19770-guruduarai-hoi-sojhi-paaisee.html

may help you find the answer a bit.


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## Astroboy

Why don't we try to help someone when he/she is asking help. Instead what we tell them is similar to keep reading from here and there. 

Let's face the facts. Either you can lead someone in the right direction or you can't. Either you know or you don't. 
So, Sardara Ji and all - isn't it better to start a satsang here ? I mean a real satsang. Talking about Naam Prapti. Talking about simran, sadhana, discipline. Jinn Prem Kiyo tin hi prabh payo.

Sorry if you are offended. Jasleen Ji is a real seeker.


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## Sardara123

Naam Jap Ji,

I told Jasleen Ji to read Gurbani. 

What is wrong in that?

What kind of person you are, always against reading Gurbani?

I dont think 'your wisdom' can be even a bit comparable to Gurbani, FYI.

By the way what tells you I am offended, why I should be?

You are the one offended ONE and wants to take us to other routs but Gurbani.

Satsang is done with Sat.

Gurbani is Sat.


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## Astroboy

Sardara Ji,

Did Guru Nanak do Akhand Paaths ? 

Ekmusafir rightly commented in one of his posts and I will say it in a similar fashion - we could download the whole of Guru Granth Sahib here - but what purpose will it serve ? 

Thaal Vich *Tin* Vastu Paiyo
Sat Santokh Vichaaro
Amrit Naam Thakur Ka Bhaiyo
Jiska Sabhs Adhaaro


All you are doing is posting translated verses and no vichaar.


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## Sardara123

What is wrong in that?

Gurbani is the main purpose. 

But there are many who can't read Gurmukhi, I have no other reason to put English translations. I do add once in while Prof Sahib Singh Ji's Vichaar on it, as I always liked them. 

IF THERE ARE ANY RULES REGARDING POSTING GURBANI/PROFESSOR SAHIB SINGH JI'S VICHAAR/ENGLISH TRANSLITERATION OF GURBANI  *ON SPN*- 

please send me the link, I couldn't find one.


IS GURBANI POSTING A CRIME AT SPN?

If so let me know.


Gurbani is the Sat. Was and Will be. If you have a Gurmat Vichaar Section on a Sikh Philosophy Network- Expect Gurbani to be posted there. 

There are many Gurbani Premi- Lovers of Gurbani.


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## Sardara123

iblwvlu mhlw 5 ]
qwp pwp qy rwKy Awp ]
sIql Bey gur crnI lwgy rwm nwm ihrdy mih jwp ]1] rhwau ]
kir ikrpw hsq pRiB dIny jgq auDwr nv KMf pRqwp ]
duK ibnsy suK And pRvysw iqRsn buJI mn qn scu DRwp ]1]
AnwQ ko nwQu srix smrQw sgl isRsit ko mweI bwpu ]
Bgiq vCl BY BMjn suAwmI gux gwvq nwnk Awlwp ]2]20]106]


Bilaaval, Fifth Mehl:
He Himself protects me from suffering and sin.
Falling at the Guru's Feet, I am cooled and soothed; I meditate on the Lord's Name within my heart. ||1||Pause||
Granting His Mercy, God has extended His Hands. He is the Emancipator of the World; His glorious radiance pervades the nine continents.
My pain has been dispelled, and peace and pleasure have come; my desire is quenched, and my mind and body are truly satisfied. ||1||
He is the Master of the masterless, All-powerful to give Sanctuary. He is the Mother and Father of the whole Universe.
He is the Lover of His devotees, the Destroyer of fear; Nanak sings and chants the Glorious Praises of his Lord and Master. ||2||20||106||


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## Astroboy

*You have problem with Gurbani- your problem*

Even with your translated versions, many will keep asking the same questions - becuase their understanding is not complete. Mine is neither. 

So what is your understanding of Naam ?


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## Sardara123

You are asking me?   strange!

You havn't answered my regular question as a member, Mr. Team Leader Ji:


IF THERE ARE ANY RULES REGARDING POSTING GURBANI/PROFESSOR SAHIB SINGH JI'S VICHAAR/ENGLISH TRANSLITERATION OF GURBANI *ON SPN*- 

please send me the link, I couldn't find one.


IS GURBANI POSTING A CRIME AT SPN?

If so let me know.


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## Sardara123

kwnVw mhlw 5 ]
crn srn dieAwl Twkur Awn nwhI jwie ]
piqq pwvn ibrdu suAwmI auDrqy hir iDAwie ]1] rhwau ]
sYswr gwr ibkwr swgr piqq moh mwn AMD ]
ibkl mwieAw sMig DMD ]
kru ghy pRB Awip kwFhu rwiK lyhu goibMd rwie ]1]
AnwQ nwQ snwQ sMqn koit pwp ibnws ]
min drsnY kI ipAws ]
pRB pUrn gunqws ]
ik®pwl dieAwl gupwl nwnk hir rsnw gun gwie ]2]2]41]

Kaanraa, Fifth Mehl:
I seek the Sanctuary of the Feet of my Merciful Lord and Master; I do not go anywhere else.
It is the Inherent Nature of our Lord and Master to purify sinners. Those who meditate on the Lord are saved. ||1||Pause||
The world is a swamp of wickedness and corruption. The blind sinner has fallen into the ocean of emotional attachment and pride,
bewildered by the entanglements of Maya.
God Himself has taken me by the hand and lifted me up and out of it; save me, O Sovereign Lord of the Universe. ||1||
He is the Master of the masterless, the Supporting Lord of the Saints, the Neutralizer of millions of sins.
My mind thirsts for the Blessed Vision of His Darshan.
God is the Perfect Treasure of Virtue.
O Nanak, sing and savor the Glorious Praises of the Lord, the Kind and Compassionate Lord of the World. ||2||2||41||


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## Sardara123

mwrU mhlw 5 ]
piqq pwvn nwmu jw ko AnwQ ko hY nwQu ]
mhw Baujl mwih qulho jw ko iliKE mwQ ]1]
fUby nwm ibnu Gn swQ ]
krx kwrxu iciq n AwvY dy kir rwKY hwQ ]1] rhwau ]
swDsMgiq gux aucwrx hir nwm AMimRq pwQ ]
krhu ik®pw murwir mwDau suix nwnk jIvY gwQ ]2]7]30]


Maaroo, Fifth Mehl:
His Name is the Purifier of sinners; He is the Master of the masterless.
In the vast and terrifying world-ocean, he is the raft for those who have such destiny inscribed on their foreheads. ||1||
Without the Naam, the Name of the Lord, huge numbers of companions have drowned.
Even if someone does not remember the Lord, the Cause of causes, still, the Lord reaches out with His hand, and saves him. ||1||Pause||
In the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, chant the Glorious Praises of the Lord, and take the Path of the Ambrosial Name of the Lord.
Shower me with Your Mercy, O Lord; listening to Your sermon, Nanak lives. ||2||7||30||


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## Astroboy

aad0002 said:


> Are you asking me or Sardara123? Whoops!!! You already have the Naam. Remember that you have it, and you will know where to find it.


 
The Spiritual Practice of Naam

Truth never gets old nor rusty
GURU AMAR DAS

It is so natural and so easy that one can take to it as a
matter of routine. It involves no intricacies and mysterious
practices and one can safely go ahead on the path with
ease and comfort. It is a Grand Trunk Road to God. One
may with a little labor gather a rich harvest. What the
Rishis of old achieved with much labor extending over
centuries can now be gained easily with sincere devotion
from day to day, without any physical penances of tortu-
ous practices.

To start with one has to take care to devote time regu-
larly at fixed hours in some solitary place. But as soon as
inner experience becomes a regular feature with the aspir-
ant, then all restrictions as to time and place drop off and
one can hear the Divine Symphony all day long, even in
the midst of most strenuous work, without any effort on
his part.

Sleeping or awake, sitting or standing, Kabir remains
ever at his post within.
KABIR

(Article by Late Sant Kirpal Singh)

................................................................................................................................

Hope by Emily Dickinson 

As a literary woman of the nineteenth century, Emily Dickinson wrote, ? ?Hope? is a things with feathers- that perches in the soul- and sings a tune without the words- and never stops- at all.? Are you listening? Does your soul too sing a melody, an ongoing tune to which you delicately move, and never stop? Here Dickinson suggests an aspect of life, a struggle for spiritual freedom, that applies to many women within the nineteenth century, as well as the women of today. My consciousness speaks to me; a spark of hope rests inside my soul, hoping to emerge into the sunlight of each new day. I am a woman; I am a delicate woman who listens to Dickinson?s fine words. I listen to the tune that never ends, in a constant search for achieving my own ?space.? Everyday, I struggle to free my feathered bird from its cage. Dickinson has identified with her internal struggle as a woman, to achieve an outer space, and as the bird, she freed herself from the cage that held her spiritual soul. 

(Source: Papers Emily Dickinson Hope Essays -- Hope by Emily Dickinson)


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## Archived_Member1

namjap said:


> *You have problem with Gurbani- your problem*
> 
> Even with your translated versions, many will keep asking the same questions - becuase their understanding is not complete. Mine is neither.
> 
> So what is your understanding of Naam ?




i agree...  please expound upon these posts...  anyone?  it's beautiful to see gurbani posted over and over again, but maybe we can focus on the "discussion" part of the discussion forum and talk about what said gurbani means?   anyone can read Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji...  but few can truly understand it.

some of us are new students and do not understand as much as the more learned members of the group.


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## Astroboy

namjap said:


> The Spiritual Practice of Naam
> 
> Truth never gets old nor rusty
> GURU AMAR DAS
> 
> It is so natural and so easy that one can take to it as a
> matter of routine. It involves no intricacies and mysterious
> practices and one can safely go ahead on the path with
> ease and comfort. It is a Grand Trunk Road to God. One
> may with a little labor gather a rich harvest. What the
> Rishis of old achieved with much labor extending over
> centuries can now be gained easily with sincere devotion
> from day to day, without any physical penances of tortu-
> ous practices.
> 
> To start with one has to take care to *devote time regu-*
> *larly at fixed hours in some solitary place.* But as soon as
> inner experience becomes a regular feature with the aspir-
> ant, then all restrictions as to time and place drop off and
> one can hear the Divine Symphony all day long, even in
> the midst of most strenuous work, without any effort on
> his part.
> 
> Sleeping or awake, sitting or standing, Kabir remains
> ever at his post within.
> KABIR
> 
> quote]
> 
> Jasleen Ji,
> 
> My best personal choice, when trying to concentrate on Guru, has been using an imaginative technique - (this is only used for the first few months).
> Even I has tough time controlling the mind - so this technique has helped me as a beginner. I use the 4 part technique from Rehras Sahib :-
> 
> Antar Gur Aradhana
> Jehva Jap Gur Nao
> Netri Satgur Pekhna
> Sarawani Sun-na Gur Nao
> 
> You can use your own creativity when formulating your technique. Our own technique is always the best. Remember, this is only used for about six months then you'll be enquiring about Inner Sound (Anhad Naad).
> 
> My way of understanding and perceiving/visioning the 4 parts are as follows:-
> 
> *Antar Gur Aradhana* - I hold a rosary in my hand with the intention to get close to Guru Ji.
> 
> *Jehva Jap Gur Nao* - Jap aloud or even whisper the mantra - Waheguru or any other.
> 
> *Netri Satgur Pekhna* - This is where the imaginative figure of Satguru Ji's radiant form occurs.
> 
> *Sarwani Sun-na Gur Nao* - For a beginner, who has not realised the presence of the Anhad Shabad/Naam - listen to what you are 'japping'.
> Actually, everyone can use their own creativity.
> 
> Hope this helps.


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## Sardara123

isrIrwgu mhlw 1 ]
ry mn AYsI hir isau pRIiq kir jYsI jl kmlyih ]
lhrI nwil pCwVIAY BI ivgsY Asnyih ]
jl mih jIA aupwie kY ibnu jl mrxu iqnyih ]1]
mn ry ikau CUtih ibnu ipAwr ]
gurmuiK AMqir riv rihAw bKsy Bgiq BMfwr ]1] rhwau ]
ry mn AYsI hir isau pRIiq kir jYsI mCulI nIr ]
ijau AiDkau iqau suKu Gxo min qin sWiq srIr ]
ibnu jl GVI n jIveI pRBu jwxY AB pIr ]2]
ry mn AYsI hir isau pRIiq kir jYsI cwiqRk myh ]
sr Bir Ql hrIAwvly iek bUMd n pveI kyh ]
krim imlY so pweIAY ikrqu pieAw isir dyh ]3]
ry mn AYsI hir isau pRIiq kir jYsI jl duD hoie ]
Awvtxu Awpy KvY duD kau Kpix n dyie ]
Awpy myil ivCuMinAw sic vifAweI dyie ]4]
ry mn AYsI hir isau pRIiq kir jYsI ckvI sUr ]
iKnu plu nId n soveI jwxY dUir hjUir ]
mnmuiK soJI nw pvY gurmuiK sdw hjUir ]5]
mnmuiK gxq gxwvxI krqw kry su hoie ]
qw kI kImiq nw pvY jy locY sBu koie ]
gurmiq hoie q pweIAY sic imlY suKu hoie ]6]
scw nyhu n quteI jy siqguru BytY soie ]
igAwn pdwrQu pweIAY iqRBvx soJI hoie ]
inrmlu nwmu n vIsrY jy gux kw gwhku hoie ]7]
Kyil gey sy pMKxUM jo cugdy sr qil ]
GVI ik muhiq ik clxw Kylxu Aju ik kil ]
ijsu qUM mylih so imlY jwie scw ipVu mil ]8]
ibnu gur pRIiq n aUpjY haumY mYlu n jwie ]
sohM Awpu pCwxIAY sbid Byid pqIAwie ]
gurmuiK Awpu pCwxIAY Avr ik kry krwie ]9]
imilAw kw ikAw mylIAY sbid imly pqIAwie ]
mnmuiK soJI nw pvY vICuiV cotw Kwie ]
nwnk dru Gru eyku hY Avru n dUjI jwie ]10]11]


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## Sardara123

Siree Raag, First Mehl:
O mind, love the Lord, as the lotus loves the water.
Tossed about by the waves, it still blossoms with love.
In the water, the creatures are created; outside of the water they die. ||1||
O mind, how can you be saved without love?
God permeates the inner beings of the Gurmukhs. They are blessed with the treasure of devotion. ||1||Pause||
O mind, love the Lord, as the fish loves the water.
The more the water, the more the happiness, and the greater the peace of mind and body.
Without water, she cannot live, even for an instant. God knows the suffering of her mind. ||2||
O mind, love the Lord, as the song-bird loves the rain.
The pools are overflowing with water, and the land is luxuriantly green, but what are they to her, if that single drop of rain does not fall into her mouth?
By His Grace, she receives it; otherwise, because of her past actions, she gives her head. ||3||
O mind, love the Lord, as the water loves the milk.
The water, added to the milk, itself bears the heat, and prevents the milk from burning.
God unites the separated ones with Himself again, and blesses them with true greatness. ||4||
O mind, love the Lord, as the chakvee duck loves the sun.
She does not sleep, for an instant or a moment; the sun is so far away, but she thinks that it is near.
Understanding does not come to the self-willed manmukh. But to the Gurmukh, the Lord is always close. ||5||
The self-willed manmukhs make their calculations and plans, but only the actions of the Creator come to pass.
His Value cannot be estimated, even though everyone may wish to do so.
Through the Guru's Teachings, it is revealed. Meeting with the True One, peace is found. ||6||
True love shall not be broken, if the True Guru is met.
Obtaining the wealth of spiritual wisdom, the understanding of the three worlds is acquired.
So become a customer of merit, and do not forget the Immaculate Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||7||
Those birds which peck at the shore of the pool have played and have departed.
In a moment, in an instant, we too must depart. Our play is only for today or tomorrow.
But those whom You unite, Lord, are united with You; they obtain a seat in the Arena of Truth. ||8||
Without the Guru, love does not well up, and the filth of egotism does not depart.
One who recognizes within himself that, ""He is me"", and who is pierced through by the Shabad, is satisfied.
When one becomes Gurmukh and realizes his own self, what more is there left to do or have done? ||9||
Why speak of union to those who are already united with the Lord? Receiving the Shabad, they are satisfied.
The self-willed manmukhs do not understand; separated from Him, they endure beatings.
O Nanak, there is only the one door to His Home; there is no other place at all. ||10||11||


----------



## Archived_Member1

Sardara123 said:


> IS GURBANI POSTING A CRIME AT SPN?
> 
> If so let me know.



i don't think it is...  but for those of us who are beginners, having some vichar in the gurbani vichar section would be helpful.


----------



## Sardara123

Jasleen Ji,

Thankyou Ji.

I never complained on Vichaar of Gurbani. Have I ever? Please Quote it- if I have made this mistake.
I ask for your forgiveness in any case. Maaf Karo Ji Jasleen Bhen Ji.


----------



## Sardara123

pauVI ]
KsmY kY drbwir FwFI visAw ]
scw Ksmu klwix kmlu ivgisAw ]
Ksmhu pUrw pwie mnhu rhisAw ]
dusmn kFy mwir sjx srisAw ]
scw siqguru syvin scw mwrgu disAw ]
scw sbdu bIcwir kwlu ivDauisAw ]
FwFI kQy AkQu sbid svwirAw ]
nwnk gux gih rwis hir jIau imly ipAwirAw ]23]


Pauree:
In the Court of the Lord and Master, His minstrels dwell.
Singing the Praises of their True Lord and Master, the lotuses of their hearts have blossomed forth.
Obtaining their Perfect Lord and Master, their minds are transfixed with ecstasy.
Their enemies have been driven out and subdued, and their friends are very pleased.
Those who serve the Truthful True Guru are shown the True Path.
Reflecting on the True Word of the Shabad, death is overcome.
Speaking the Unspoken Speech of the Lord, one is adorned with the Word of His Shabad.
Nanak holds tight to the Treasure of Virtue, and meets with the Dear, Beloved Lord. ||23||


----------



## spnadmin

jasleen_kaur said:


> i agree...  please expound upon these posts...  anyone?  it's beautiful to see gurbani posted over and over again, but maybe we can focus on the "discussion" part of the discussion forum and talk about what said gurbani means?   anyone can read Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji...  but few can truly understand it.
> 
> some of us are new students and do not understand as much as the more learned members of the group.



Jasleen ji

Your question is a good one. Here is my reaction. Forum members should feel free to expound or not expound. They should feel free to read and think. Or not think but comtemplate if that is what they want to do. When a thread is in the Gurmat Vichaar part of the forum, that has a special meaning. Gurmat Vichaar (understanding of the Guru's wisdom) is not a matter of personal opinion or even found in a casual discussion of opposing points of view from secular sources. Of course there will be those who disagree with my statement as there always are. That is fine too.

Gurmat Vichaar usually takes on the meaning in this paragraph which I found on Gurmat - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.
_ The 'guru' in gur-mat means the Ten Gurus of the Sikh faith as well as gur-bani, i.e. their inspired utterances recorded in the Guru Granth Sahib.  The instruction (mat) of the Guru implies the teaching imparted through this holy word, and the example set by the Ten Gurus in person. Direction derived from these sources is a Sikh's ultimate norm in shaping the course of his life, both in its sacred and secular aspects. The spiritual path he is called upon to pursue should be oriented towards obtaining release, i.e. freedom from the dread bondage of repeated births and deaths, and standards of religious and personal conduct he must conform to in order to relate to his community and to society as a whole are all collectively subsumed in the concept of gurmat._

_Teaching is imparted through the holy word. Gurbani is the ultimate norm._ So, the use of Gurbani to respond to Gurbani is not unusual -- a way of having a conversation using Guruji's words. Some suggestions for further learning (things that worked for me) could include using the search engine on the Search Gurbani: Gurbani Research Website where one can search terms using the Bhai Gurdas index. Exploring concepts and ideas on sites like Gurbani.com :- Knowledgebase on Sikhism - Religion and Spirituality Portal
Reading previous posts where individuals like Amarpal or Giani Jarnail Singh speak about various issues. Checking in on the gurmat vichaar thread that kds19080 ji posts in every week. Using a gurbani search engine to find many different verses on a subject like "detachment" or anything else you like. Printing them all, and reading and comparing the different shabads. Formulating your ideas and discussing them in Gurmat classes at gurdwara.

But the conversation of shabad to shabad is classic conversation in which the entire scripture becomes the validation for any other part of scripture. The coherence of meaning from shabad to shabad in SGGS in complete and unbroken. 

For me personally less conversation and more dhyanna is appropriate in the Gurmat Vichaar section. Not the only way of course.  In fact a mood of tranquility comes over me when I do this. And there is nothing to stop anyone from expounding if that is what they want to do.

Hope this was helpful.


----------



## Archived_Member1

Sardara123 said:


> Jasleen Ji,
> 
> Thankyou Ji.
> 
> I never complained on Vichaar of Gurbani. Have I ever? Please Quote it- if I have made this mistake.
> I ask for your forgiveness in any case. Maaf Karo Ji Jasleen Bhen Ji.




oh no, i'm sorry, i didn't mean to suggest anyone had made any mistake.  please, no apology is necessary. 

i'm just a poor beginner, i don't always understand the gurbani on it's own.  i was hoping to encourage some more learned people to add their thoughts...

sorry about the confusion.


----------



## Sardara123

jasleen_kaur said:


> oh no, i'm sorry, i didn't mean to suggest anyone had made any mistake. please, no apology is necessary.
> 
> i'm just a poor beginner, i don't always understand the gurbani on it's own. i was hoping to encourage some more learned people to add their thoughts...
> 
> sorry about the confusion.


 
I am sorry Jasleen Ji. I can only pray to Waheguru Ji that He grants you more understanding, AS HE IS THE GIVER.


----------



## spnadmin

What has brought me a long way is to listen to Sukha Singh do the English translation and katha of the daily Hukamnama on Sikhnet. I have listened to this every night since it began maybe 2 years this coming June. 

Vocabulary grows. But also a more complete context for the shabad. And he often adds into his katha verses from other parts of Guruji to show how one shabad reflects the meaning of the other.


----------



## Sardara123

aad Ji,

Can you please give the address of this site. 

Thanks


----------



## Archived_Member1

aad0002 said:


> What has brought me a long way is to listen to Sukha Singh do the English translation and katha of the daily Hukamnama on Sikhnet. I have listened to this every night since it began maybe 2 years this coming June.
> 
> Vocabulary grows. But also a more complete context for the shabad. And he often adds into his katha verses from other parts of Guruji to show how one shabad reflects the meaning of the other.




thanks, i'll look into this.  perhaps when i learn more i can post some of it here, and share it with other beginners.


----------



## spnadmin

Sardara123 ji

The web address is

Daily Hukamnama - English Translation


----------



## Sardara123

Thankyou aad Ji.


----------



## Sikh80

jasleen_kaur said:


> true, but how do we find the name? i see a lot of shabads telling us not to forget the name, please post how we find it in the first place.


 
I shall not answer you in a round about manner. It is stated that everything is supported by naam.But none on the earth knows what is it. It is given by the True Lord Himself.GGS is a guide to Naam. Yes,theoretically speaking ,one should have overcome the five enemies and should lead a truthful living,become equipoised and develop virtues of Sat, Santokh and gyan and practice on Gurumantar. That is why the importance on 'Amritvella'.But we can remmember HIM at any time.Eventually, It may lead us to the 4th stage when things become clear to oneself. No one can help anyone as Naam cannot be given by any Human being.
With HIS grace one is blessed.


----------



## Astroboy

Sikh80 ji,

Yes I agree with you that naam cannot be given by any individual. But for beginners need to come to the Sadh Sangat to vichaar about what naam is, what to expect and what not to expect from this Omnipresent Sound Current.

Satsangat kaise janiye, 
jithay eko naam vakhaniye.

Vichaar of naam is not theory but practical experience.


----------



## Sardara123

aad0002 said:


> Sardara123 ji
> 
> The web address is
> 
> Daily Hukamnama - English Translation


 
aad Ji,

I am finding this interpretation very good. In my opinion, it is a very good source for those who are the begginers or who are yet trying to learn Gurmukhi. Good One.

I read about the guy who does this seva, immpressive.


----------



## Sikh80

namjap said:


> Sikh80 ji,
> 
> Yes I agree with you that naam cannot be given by any individual. But for beginners need to come to the Sadh Sangat to vichaar about what naam is, what to expect and what not to expect from this Omnipresent Sound Current.
> 
> Satsangat kaise janiye,
> jithay eko naam vakhaniye.
> 
> Vichaar of naam is not theory but practical experience.


Sound current/naad/anhat etc are all variants employed in GGS ji for Naam. It has also been stated the HE is met in the holy congregation. For a seeker it is a blessing provided one gets it.


----------



## AmbarDhara

Hi all,

Can we come back on the topic- 

'Need of True Guru'

thanks


----------



## AmbarDhara

Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
SGGS JI
ANG 10​ 
SATGURU PRASAAD​ 



ਹਮ ਕੀਰੇ ਕਿਰਮ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਰਣਾਈ ਕਰਿ ਦਇਆ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਰਗਾਸਿ ॥੧॥
ham keerae kiram sathigur saranaaee kar dhaeiaa naam paragaas ||1||
I am a mere insect, a worm. O True Guru, I seek Your Sanctuary. Please be merciful, and bless me with the Light of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||1||​ 



Gurbani eis jag meh chaanan
Gurbani alakh lakhiayaa
Gurbani Gavo Bhaee
charan kamal parabh kay nit Dhi-aava-o​


----------



## Archived_Member1

Sikh80 said:


> I shall not answer you in a round about manner. It is stated that everything is supported by naam.But none on the earth knows what is it. It is given by the True Lord Himself.GGS is a guide to Naam. Yes,theoretically speaking ,one should have overcome the five enemies and should lead a truthful living,become equipoised and develop virtues of Sat, Santokh and gyan and practice on Gurumantar. That is why the importance on 'Amritvella'.But we can remmember HIM at any time.Eventually, It may lead us to the 4th stage when things become clear to oneself. No one can help anyone as Naam cannot be given by any Human being.
> With HIS grace one is blessed.



yes, i understand this part...  i have received naam drir at Amrit Sanchar.   

i was hoping that since this is the "gurmat vichaar" section, people might try to post some vichaar, rather than just posting gurbani over and over again.  my questions were intended to provoke discussion.  we can all read gurbani online, i thought it would helpful and generous if these learned souls could share what they understand and learn from the gurbani they're cut/pasting is all.

i'm sorry if i've offended anyone by asking for this seva.  i know i'm no one to ask for such a favor.


----------



## AmbarDhara

jasleen_kaur said:


> yes, i understand this part... i have received naam drir at Amrit Sanchar.
> 
> i was hoping that since this is the "gurmat vichaar" section, people might try to post some vichaar, rather than just posting gurbani over and over again. my questions were intended to provoke discussion. we can all read gurbani online, i thought it would helpful and generous if these learned souls could share what they understand and learn from the gurbani they're cut/pasting is all.
> 
> i'm sorry if i've offended anyone by asking for this seva. i know i'm no one to ask for such a favor.


 

Team Leader Namjap has explained a lot of things, in this thread on your question on Naam in one of his posts. I think He should come forward and explain more. I see he is only one with some of HIS OWN knowledge. 

I thought your question was answered in that post so i made a humble request to go back to the original topic. OOPS.


----------



## Archived_Member1

AmbarDhara said:


> Team Leader Namjap has explained a lot of things, in this thread on Naam in one of his posts. I think He should come forward and explain more. I see he is only one with some of HIS OWN knowledge.
> 
> I thought your question was answered in that post so i made a humble request to go back to the original topic. OOPS.




"my question" was a request that those who cut/paste gurbani repeatedly, should try to share what they have learned from said gurbani with the rest of us learners.   i was trying to frame it in a polite manner, however, this seems to have been misunderstood.

i apologize if this request of seva is too much.


----------



## AmbarDhara

jasleen_kaur said:


> "my question" was a request that those who cut/paste gurbani repeatedly, should try to share what they have learned from said gurbani with the rest of us learners. i was trying to frame it in a polite manner, however, this seems to have been misunderstood.
> 
> i apologize if this request of seva is too much.


 

What if they think Gurbani is supreme, their words are not worthy enough for its explanation. So they share only Gurbani. 

Is it good to disgrace Gurbani by calling it a CUT/PASTE VERSION? Especialy from a kaur who is AmritDhari.


Copy?


----------



## Archived_Member1

AmbarDhara said:


> What if they think Gurbani is supreme, their words are not worthy enough for its explanation. So they share only Gurbani.
> 
> 
> Copy?



of course, and i apologize.  i think i misunderstood the term "vichaar".  i thought it meant to discuss or explain something.  i'm sorry again for intruding.


----------



## AmbarDhara

vichaar:
It can be done in infine number of forms.


----------



## Sikh80

I also withdraw from the thread and thought that something serious was discussed.

Sorry for peeping in


----------



## AmbarDhara

good luck to all- ones who are leaving as well as who are staying.

Waheguru Rakha.


----------



## AmbarDhara

Gurbani is SUPREME SERIOUS stuff.

Definition of peep:


To peek furtively; steal a quick glance.
To peer through a small aperture or from behind something.
To appear as though emerging from a hiding place: _[SIZE=+0]the moon peeping through the clouds.[/SIZE] _
_VERY SERIOUS_


----------



## Archived_Member1

AmbarDhara said:


> \
> 
> Is it good to disgrace Gurbani by calling it a CUT/PASTE VERSION? Especialy from a kaur who is AmritDhari.
> 
> 
> Copy?



i apologize with all of my heart of the words "cut/paste" are offensive to anyone.  i had not idea i was speaking wrong.  i'm very sorry.  i would NEVER disgrace gurbani intentionally.  

maaf karna.  i'm so sorry to have bothered you.


----------



## AmbarDhara

I am not bothered Jasleen Kaur Ji.  

Kar Kar Karna Likh Le Jah


----------



## Pyramid

jasleen_kaur said:


> true, but how do we find the name? i see a lot of shabads telling us not to forget the name, please post how we find it in the first place.


 
Jasleen Kaur Ji,

If I remember from previous conversation with you, You are Amritdhari. 

If you are: what did the Panj Pyara conveyed about naam when they did the ceremony?

As far as I know they are supposed to tell something. There is no Sikhi If there is no understanding of Naam.

Tuhada Das
Yograj


----------



## Pyramid

Sardara123 said:


> Jasleen Ji:
> 
> please read all gurbani posts posted under:
> http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/19770-guruduarai-hoi-sojhi-paaisee.html
> 
> may help you find the answer a bit.


 
Jasleen Ji,

Perfect Start, I read those.

I also recomend the new thread the same person started on Naam as well.
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/19893-gurbani-naam-and-ways-recieve-jewel.html

All this will help only If there is Unconditional Love and Unshakable Faith on Gurbani- otherwise mind will keep wandering for Other's Views.




Tuhada Das
Yograj


----------



## AmbarDhara

Pyramid said:


> All this will help only If there is Unconditional Love and Unshakable Faith on Gurbani- otherwise mind will keep wandering for Other's Views.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tuhada Das
> Yograj


 
Exactly


----------



## Archived_Member1

Pyramid said:


> Jasleen Kaur Ji,
> 
> If I remember from previous conversation with you, You are Amritdhari.
> 
> If you are: what did the Panj Pyara conveyed about naam when they did the ceremony?
> 
> As far as I know they are supposed to tell something. There is no Sikhi If there is no understanding of Naam.
> 
> Tuhada Das
> Yograj




uncle ji, 

i was trying to stimulate conversation or "vichaar" with this question.  yes, i had naam drir at amrit sanchar.  but not everyone on this forum is amritdhari.  and we are all at different stages of learning and understanding.  i was simply hoping to encourage people to discuss the gurbani they were posting.

apparently i have made a mistake in asking this.  i will refrain from this in the future.


----------



## spnadmin

Jasleen ji

Misunderstandings happen because this is the Internet and sometimes someone says something and the context isn't there. So responses come back that aren't always in reply to what we really meant. You know this already.

Anyway, I think in another two replies, you, Pyramid, and Ambardharra will all be in sync. This conversation is one worth having in any case. I am enjoying it.

Thanks for pursueing it.


----------



## ekmusafir_ajnabi

jasleen_kaur; 
 
i apologize with all of my heart of the words "cut/paste" are offensive to anyone. i had not idea i was speaking wrong. i'm very sorry. i would NEVER disgrace gurbani intentionally. 

__________________quote said:
			
		

> Dear Jasleen Kaur,
> 
> Please do not bow too much unnecessarily. ****************They are themselves not the Sikhs of SGGS but the Sikhs of ***************. It negates their need to understand the shabad themselves. How do you expect them to do Vichaar. Let me assure you, “You have committed no offence.” But made a very valid point of asking them to elaborate on their cut and paste/ their understanding ********* asked them the same some time back. It does not take much intelligence to do cut and paste.
> 
> The emotion you have displayed is a positive feedback of your progress into the field of spirituality. *****************Well done. This is beginning of true love fo Our Gurus and Gurbani. It is an indication of a positive life. Do not let your emotions dry like the rest of them.
> 
> Mithat nivi Nanaka, Gunn Changayeein Tatt.
> 
> Ekmusafir_ajnabi


----------



## AmbarDhara

Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
SGGS JI
SATGURU PRASAAD​


jY qin bwxI ivsir jwie ]
ijau pkw rogI ivllwie ]1]
Jai than baanee visar jaae ||
Jio pakaa rogee vilalaae ||1||
*That body, which forgets the Word of the Guru’s Bani,*
*cries out in pain, like a chronic patient. ||1||*​ 
Gurbani eis jag meh chaanan
Gurbani alakh lakhiayaa
Gurbani Gavo Bhaee
charan kamal parabh kay nit Dhi-aava-o​


----------



## AmbarDhara

*Sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord each and every day.*

Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
SGGS JI​

SATGURU PRASAAD​

bwr bwr hir ky gun gwvau ]
gur gim Bydu su hir kw pwvau ]1] rhwau ]
Baar baar har kae gun gaavo ||
Gur gam bhaedh s har kaa paavo ||1|| rehaao ||
*Sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord each and every day.*
*Meeting with the Guru, you shall come to know the mystery of the Lord.*


Gurbani eis jag meh chaanan


Gurbani alakh lakhiayaa


Gurbani Gavo Bhaee

charan kamal parabh kay nit Dhi-aava-o​


----------



## AmbarDhara

We need to become a Gurmukh- Guru Oriented.

To gain any benefit the principal condition is total self-surrender to Guru Ji. To lead the life of a disciple total self-surrender is the first step.


----------



## AmbarDhara

People do Kirtan all day long, There is Spiritual Significance of reciting Gurbani. All those who read Gurbani benefit from it- knowingly or not knowingly


----------



## AmbarDhara

I am forever a sacrifice to those who serve their True Guru. 
Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
SGGS JI

ANG 21​ 
SATGURU PRASAAD​ 
ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵੇ ਆਪਣਾ ਹਉ ਸਦ ਕੁਰਬਾਣੈ ਤਾਸੁ ॥
sathagur saevae aapanaa ho sadh kurabaanai thaas ||
I am forever a sacrifice to those who serve their True Guru.​ 

Gurbani eis jag meh chaanan
Gurbani alakh lakhiayaa
Gurbani Gavo Bhaee
charan kamal parabh kay nit Dhi-aava-o​


----------



## AmbarDhara

One who meets with the Holy True Guru finds the Treasure of Excellence.

Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
SGGS JI

ANG 21


SATGURU PRASAAD


ਸਾਧੂ ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਜੇ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਾ ਪਾਈਐ ਗੁਣੀ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ॥੧॥
saadhhoo sathagur jae milai thaa paaeeai gunee nidhhaan ||1||
One who meets with the Holy True Guru finds the Treasure of Excellence. ||1||




Gurbani eis jag meh chaanan
Gurbani alakh lakhiayaa
Gurbani Gavo Bhaee
charan kamal parabh kay nit Dhi-aava-o​


----------



## AmbarDhara

O Nanak, make the True Guru your friend;

Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
SGGS JI
ANG 22

SATGURU PRASAAD


ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਮੀਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਸਚੁ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਜਾਇ ॥੪॥੨੦॥
naanak sathagur meeth kar sach paavehi dharageh jaae ||4||20||
O Nanak, make the True Guru your friend; going to His Court, you shall obtain the True Lord. ||4||20||




Gurbani eis jag meh chaanan
Gurbani alakh lakhiayaa
Gurbani Gavo Bhaee
charan kamal parabh kay nit Dhi-aava-o​


----------



## Pyramid

jasleen_kaur said:


> uncle ji,
> 
> i was trying to stimulate conversation or "vichaar" with this question. yes, i had naam drir at amrit sanchar. but not everyone on this forum is amritdhari. and we are all at different stages of learning and understanding. i was simply hoping to encourage people to discuss the gurbani they were posting.
> 
> apparently i have made a mistake in asking this. i will refrain from this in the future.


 
Beta Jasleen Ji,

I didnt see that your post dipicts that you want the answer for all. It clearly said- 'I am a beginer and I sometimes dont understand' as far as I can recall.

Anyways, even if you dont like the answer, I dont think others should change their response according to your choice. Wait or Ask your question again- may be somebody who wants to share their knowledge will appear and answer it.

Live and let others live.- this is Gurmat. 

Everybody has their own way of disscussing, BASED ON THEIR LEVEL. 

We must tolerate all. Others shouldn't be expected to halt because you dont get your question answered in YOUR SPECIFIC WAY.

I am very sorry for leading you towards Gurbani also- Please Forgive Me, I hope you can.

Tuhada Das
Yograj


----------



## Sardara123

Without Contemplating the Word of the Shabad, no one becomes fearless.
True Guru Soothes us.



slok mÚ 3 ]
iqRsnw dwDI jil mueI jil jil kry pukwr ]
siqgur sIql jy imlY iPir jlY n dUjI vwr ]
nwnk ivxu nwvY inrBau ko nhI ijcru sbid n kry vIcwru ]1]


Shalok, Third Mehl:
Consumed by desires, the world is burning and dying; burning and burning, it cries out.
But if it meets with the cooling and soothing True Guru, it does not burn any longer.
O Nanak, without the Name, and without contemplating the Word of the Shabad, no one becomes fearless. ||1|| ANG 588


----------



## Astroboy

A True Seeker always has the invisible guidance of the True Guru. The Omnipresent Guru hovers around the aspirant likened to a mother who watches her infant crawling around curiously.

Any obstacle put before the aspirant only strengthens him/her. 

The prayer of the Lord's humble servant is never goes vain.
-SGGS 819​ 
All thoughts we have are in a way prayers as these create our reality. The all pervading creative force is ever creating our reality, the world, the universe. The reality that we are experiencing is in accordance to our present thoughts and belief pattern. These patterns are crystallized thought energy which acts on our body’s physiology and has produced pathological changes and result in diseases. These thought patterns activate universal forces and create our circumstances and situations.

_Everlasting peace_
Make chastity your furnace, patience your smithy,
The Master's word your anvil, and true knowledge your hammer.
Take awe of God your bellows and with it kindle the fire of austerity,
And in the crucible of love, melt the nectar Divine,
Only in such a mint, can man be cast into the Word.
But they alone who are favoured by Him, can take unto this Path,​0 Nanak, on whom He looks with grace, He fills with Everlasting Peace.

(Japji Sahib)


----------



## kaur-1

jasleen_kaur said:


> true, but how do we find the name?  i see a lot of shabads telling us not to forget the name, please post how we find it in the first place.



I am going to be a busy body and butt in this thread with a very short reply.  I feel that before we find "Naam" we need to have a basic idea of what 'naam' means.

In brief:

True Guru (Shabad Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji) is needed to discover "Naam" which also contains 'Naam'(ie in gurbani).

'Naam' or 'shabad' is in us and around us. 

Sometime's you may read on the www that the Sikhs are 'the seekers of truth', well "Naam/Shabad/Gurbani/Hukam" is the 'Truth'.

(Ref: Ang 1 SGGSJ)-Mool Mantar


 EkOngKar - One universal God
SatNaam - Supreme Eternal existence Truth is the Naam 

_(If I am not mistaken !!!->)_
Therefore Naam is Ekongkar in sargun form ie the supreme divine power/light/essence/sound current...... of EkOngKar

The True Guru is therefore needed to discover this 'truth' and make a connection with the 'supreme divine power/light/essence/sound current..... of EkOngKar' which exist in us in a hidden form.

..............to be continued another day in the recent 'Naam thread' in this forum


----------



## AmbarDhara

Jasleen Kaur said:
			
		

> i was trying to stimulate conversation or "vichaar" with this question. yes, i had naam drir at amrit sanchar. but not everyone on this forum is amritdhari. and we are all at different stages of learning and understanding. i was simply hoping to encourage people to discuss the gurbani they were posting.


 
Jasleen Ji, you have solved one part of the problem.

You say that you have naam Drir- So you are the poerfect one among us, who has PERFECT Knowledge  and Experience of Naam.

I dont understand what are you waiting for?

I posting this to encourage the most knowledgable among us- Jasleen Ji- to come forward and share her knowledge about Naam with us moors.

Dont be shy Jasleen Ji, you been trying to encourage others, while you kept your jewel hidden.

But Guru Ji says- No body can hide this Jewel.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SHARE YOUR KNOWLEDGE WITH US- I BEG OF YOU.


----------



## AmbarDhara

Dear aad0002 Ji,

I misunderstood yesterday- I thought the rule was only for the first post of the thread.  Now I get it- me moor.

Thanks for correcting my mistakes from yesterday- thankyou thankyou thankyou dear.


----------



## AmbarDhara

kaur-1 said:


> I am going to be a busy body and butt in this thread with a very short reply.  I feel that before we find "Naam" we need to have a basic idea of what 'naam' means.
> 
> In brief:
> 
> True Guru (Shabad Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji) is needed to discover "Naam" which also contains 'Naam'(ie in gurbani).
> 
> 'Naam' or 'shabad' is in us and around us.
> 
> Sometime's you may read on the www that the Sikhs are 'the seekers of truth', well "Naam/Shabad/Gurbani/Hukam" is the 'Truth'.
> 
> (Ref: Ang 1 SGGSJ)-Mool Mantar
> 
> 
> EkOngKar - One universal God
> SatNaam - Supreme Eternal existence Truth is the Naam
> 
> _(If I am not mistaken !!!->)_
> Therefore Naam is Ekongkar in sargun form ie the supreme divine power/light/essence/sound current...... of EkOngKar
> 
> The True Guru is therefore needed to discover this 'truth' and make a connection with the 'supreme divine power/light/essence/sound current..... of EkOngKar' which exist in us in a hidden form.
> 
> ..............to be continued another day in the recent 'Naam thread' in this forum


 
We need the true Guru for everything.

Guru Ji tells again and again to Drink this Nectar- Naam: Name of the Lord. He tells us to renounce our self-conceit. He tells us to become the dust of the feet of the Holy. 

He tells us again and again this jewel can only be received by those whom He blesses Himself with His own Mercy. 

 We need the true Guru to guide us in everything.


----------



## kaur-1

Yes we definetely do need SatGuru's guidance and assistance for everything. 

p/s: My last brief post was worded in response to jasleen_kaur's question regarding naam.


----------



## AmbarDhara

It is very beautiful post kaur ji, i couldn't stop myself from responding to it Ji.


----------



## Archived_Member1

AmbarDhara said:


> Jasleen Ji, you have solved one part of the problem.
> 
> You say that you have naam Drir- So you are the poerfect one among us, who has PERFECT Knowledge and Experience of Naam.
> 
> I dont understand what are you waiting for?
> 
> I posting this to encourage the most knowledgable among us- Jasleen Ji- to come forward and share her knowledge about Naam with us moors.
> 
> Dont be shy Jasleen Ji, you been trying to encourage others, while you kept your jewel hidden.
> 
> But Guru Ji says- No body can hide this Jewel.
> 
> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SHARE YOUR KNOWLEDGE WITH US- I BEG OF YOU.


 

WHAT???   when did i ever claim perfection or anything near it?  please do not insult me like this, it's very disturbing.

i am nothing, i'm sorry that asking for help has caused so many problems.


----------



## Archived_Member1

Pyramid said:


> Beta Jasleen Ji,
> 
> I didnt see that your post dipicts that you want the answer for all. It clearly said- 'I am a beginer and I sometimes dont understand' as far as I can recall.
> 
> Anyways, even if you dont like the answer, I dont think others should change their response according to your choice. Wait or Ask your question again- may be somebody who wants to share their knowledge will appear and answer it.
> 
> Live and let others live.- this is Gurmat.
> 
> Everybody has their own way of disscussing, BASED ON THEIR LEVEL.
> 
> We must tolerate all. Others shouldn't be expected to halt because you dont get your question answered in YOUR SPECIFIC WAY.
> 
> I am very sorry for leading you towards Gurbani also- Please Forgive Me, I hope you can.
> 
> Tuhada Das
> Yograj


 
please forgive my poor use of english.  i never meant to imply that any others are as low as i am, so i did not use "we".  i appologize for any confusion.

please never appologize for leading ANYONE to gurbani.  what a horrible thing to say.  

i think i have been very confusing in my words.  i'm very sorry for this.


----------



## Archived_Member1

kaur-1 said:


> I am going to be a busy body and butt in this thread with a very short reply.  I feel that before we find "Naam" we need to have a basic idea of what 'naam' means.
> 
> In brief:
> 
> True Guru (Shabad Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji) is needed to discover "Naam" which also contains 'Naam'(ie in gurbani).
> 
> 'Naam' or 'shabad' is in us and around us.
> 
> Sometime's you may read on the www that the Sikhs are 'the seekers of truth', well "Naam/Shabad/Gurbani/Hukam" is the 'Truth'.
> 
> (Ref: Ang 1 SGGSJ)-Mool Mantar
> 
> 
> EkOngKar - One universal God
> SatNaam - Supreme Eternal existence Truth is the Naam
> 
> _(If I am not mistaken !!!->)_
> Therefore Naam is Ekongkar in sargun form ie the supreme divine power/light/essence/sound current...... of EkOngKar
> 
> The True Guru is therefore needed to discover this 'truth' and make a connection with the 'supreme divine power/light/essence/sound current..... of EkOngKar' which exist in us in a hidden form.
> 
> ..............to be continued another day in the recent 'Naam thread' in this forum


 

thanks bhenji, this is exactly the kind of vichaar i had hoped to encourage.


----------



## AmbarDhara

jasleen_kaur said:


> WHAT??? when did i ever claim perfection or anything near it? please do not insult me like this, it's very disturbing.
> 
> i am nothing, i'm sorry that asking for help has caused so many problems.


 

I read your comments about naamdrirr, in my understanding naamdrirr is pakka in naam drirr is 'solid', 'perfect', 'Implanted', 'Firmly Fixed', 'holding Tight'. So I thought you do have Naam Firmly Fixed within you, so I asked you to share your knowledge and experience of it.

I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I had no intent to insult you. I am extremely sorry for making you feel this way. Maaf Karna, galtee hogaee unknowingly.

Actually your asking question had helped me a lot. The more I asked Guru Ji, the more He taught me through Gurbani, very many thanks.

I am asking again for your forgiveness I didn't know drirr has other meanings too. Can you please explain what did you mean by it.

Thanks


Dear kaur Ji,

Thanks for your posts, at least Jasleen Bhenji will not have narazgee any more. Thanks. I really liked it too, I think I said this earlier as well. Please accept it again.


----------



## Sardara123

Jasleen Ji and All,

I am the one who started this topic, Jasleen Ji you asked the question by grabing a few lines from my post.


As I am reading through the thread, it appears that Jasleen Bhenji feels insulted when another member asked her the same question to explain the same thing she herself asked before.

SO WAS ALL THIS QUESTION ASKING HAPPENED TO BE WITH A MOTIVE TO INSULT ME? 

SO MANY TIMES THE SAME QUESTION WAS ASKED IN A ROUND ABOUT MANNER TO ALL THOSE WHO POST GURBANI AND ALL THE KIND OF COMMENTS WERE MADE ON THEM. WAS ALL THE INTENT HERE TO INSULT THE PEOPLE WHO DEPEND ON GURBANI INSTEAD OF THEIR OWN WRITTING? EVEN ONE MEMBER WENT TO THE EXTENT OF CLASSIFYING THEM AS A CULT. 

CAN SOMEBODY THROW SOME LIGHT ON THIS, PLEASE.

BECAUSE HER COMMENT IS REALLY DISTURBING.


----------



## Sardara123

Thankyou aad Ji,

I am glad and very much thankful to you for dealing the issue of 'cult calling to those who prefer Gurbani' statement.

Thanks again.


----------



## AmbarDhara

Good, very good Aad0002 Ji,

Thanks for taking care of this issue. 
Gurmat Vichaar section in a Sikh Philosophy network must not let people  who use Gurbani be called cults. Gurbani is a Sikh's everything.

Thankyou


----------



## spnadmin

AmbarDhara ji, all in the thread. Glad we are all trying to be good companions to one another. Good friends. So let's go back to our vichaar with friendship in the sangat.  Let me start things off, and others can reply. 

Guruji is saying in Siri Raag, that we never know when we will draw our last breath. Love that joins us together comes from His Grace. But this is possible only when we are united with Him. Like birds who peck at the edges of a pond one day and are gone the next, so the play that we are in is very short. What endures is His Love. In remembrance of His immaculate name, by allowing ourselves to be pierced by his Word, we realize that there is nothing more that we need to do. And that we have discovered what is truly important. 



ਸਚਾ ਨੇਹੁ ਨ ਤੁਟਈ ਜੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਭੇਟੈ ਸੋਇ ॥ 
* sachaa naehu n thuttee jae sathigur bhaettai soe ||*
True love shall not be broken, if the *True Guru* is met.

ਗਿਆਨ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਸੋਝੀ ਹੋਇ ॥ 
* giaan padhaarathh paaeeai thribhavan sojhee hoe ||*
Obtaining the wealth of spiritual wisdom, the understanding of the three worlds is acquired.

ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਜੇ ਗੁਣ ਕਾ ਗਾਹਕੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੭॥ 
* niramal naam n veesarai jae gun kaa gaahak hoe ||7||*
So become a customer of merit, and do not forget the Immaculate Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||7||

 ਖੇਲਿ ਗਏ ਸੇ ਪੰਖਣੂੰ ਜੋ ਚੁਗਦੇ ਸਰ ਤਲਿ ॥ 
* khael geae sae pankhanoon jo chugadhae sar thal ||*
Those birds which peck at the shore of the pool have played and have departed.

ਘੜੀ ਕਿ ਮੁਹਤਿ ਕਿ ਚਲਣਾ ਖੇਲਣੁ ਅਜੁ ਕਿ ਕਲਿ ॥ 
* gharree k muhath k chalanaa khaelan aj k kal ||*
In a moment, in an instant, we too must depart. Our play is only for today or tomorrow.

 ਜਿਸੁ ਤੂੰ ਮੇਲਹਿ ਸੋ ਮਿਲੈ ਜਾਇ ਸਚਾ ਪਿੜੁ ਮਲਿ ॥੮॥ 
* jis thoon maelehi so milai jaae sachaa pirr mal ||8||*
But those whom You unite, Lord, are united with You; they obtain a seat in the Arena of Truth. ||8||

 ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਨ ਊਪਜੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ 
* bin gur preeth n oopajai houmai mail n jaae ||*
Without the Guru, love does not well up, and the filth of egotism does not depart.

 ਸੋਹੰ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੀਐ ਸਬਦਿ ਭੇਦਿ ਪਤੀਆਇ ॥ 
* sohan aap pashhaaneeai sabadh bhaedh patheeaae ||*
One who recognizes within himself that, ""He is me"", and who is pierced through by the Shabad, is satisfied.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੀਐ ਅਵਰ ਕਿ ਕਰੇ ਕਰਾਇ ॥੯॥ 
* guramukh aap pashhaaneeai avar k karae karaae ||9||*
When one becomes Gurmukh and realizes his own self, what more is there left to do or have done? ||9||

 ਮਿਲਿਆ ਕਾ ਕਿਆ ਮੇਲੀਐ ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਪਤੀਆਇ ॥ 
* miliaa kaa kiaa maeleeai sabadh milae patheeaae ||*
Why speak of union to those who are already united with the Lord? Receiving the Shabad, they are satisfied.



Sri Raag
Guru Naanak Dev
Ang 60


----------



## Sardara123

Without the true Guru, we can't come to know the Truth. True Guru, through His teachings show us the right path. He clears all our doubts.


Guru Ji explains in the following Shabad

Shabad Gurbani:

isrIrwgu mhlw 1 ]
Brmy Bwih n ivJvY jy BvY idsMqr dysu ]
AMqir mYlu n auqrY iDRgu jIvxu iDRgu vysu ]
horu ikqY Bgiq n hoveI ibnu siqgur ky aupdys ]1]
mn ry gurmuiK Agin invwir ]
gur kw kihAw min vsY haumY iqRsnw mwir ]1] rhwau ]
mnu mwxku inrmolu hY rwm nwim piq pwie ]
imil sqsMgiq hir pweIAY gurmuiK hir ilv lwie ]
Awpu gieAw suKu pwieAw imil sllY sll smwie ]2]
ijin hir hir nwmu n cyiqE su Aauguix AwvY jwie ]
ijsu sqguru purKu n ByitE su Baujil pcY pcwie ]
iehu mwxku jIau inrmolu hY ieau kaufI bdlY jwie ]3]
ijMnw sqguru ris imlY sy pUry purK sujwx ]
gur imil Baujlu lµGIAY drgh piq prvwxu ]
nwnk qy muK aujly Duin aupjY sbdu nIswxu ]4]22]



English Translation:

Siree Raag, First Mehl:
The fire of doubt is not extinguished, even by wandering through foreign lands and countries.
If inner filth is not removed, one's life is cursed, and one's clothes are cursed.
There is no other way to perform devotional worship, except through the Teachings of the True Guru. ||1||
O mind, become Gurmukh, and extinguish the fire within.
Let the Words of the Guru abide within your mind; let egotism and desires die. ||1||Pause||
The jewel of the mind is priceless; through the Name of the Lord, honor is obtained.
Join the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, and find the Lord. The Gurmukh embraces love for the Lord.
Give up your selfishness, and you shall find peace; like water mingling with water, you shall merge in absorption. ||2||
Those who have not contemplated the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, are unworthy; they come and go in reincarnation.
One who has not met with the True Guru, the Primal Being, is bothered and bewildered in the terrifying world-ocean.
This jewel of the soul is priceless, and yet it is being squandered like this, in exchange for a mere shell. ||3||
Those who joyfully meet with the True Guru are perfectly fulfilled and wise.
Meeting with the Guru, they cross over the terrifying world-ocean. In the Court of the Lord, they are honored and approved.
O Nanak, their faces are radiant; the Music of the Shabad, the Word of God, wells up within them. ||4||22||

source:SikhiToTheMax



Punjabi Translation of the Shabad:

pdArQ:- BrmY—BOx nwl [ Bwih—A`g [ ivJvY—bu`JdI [ dysu idsMqr—dysu dys AMqr—hor hor dys [ AMqir—AMdrlI [ iDRgu—iPtkwr-jog [ vysu—ByK, iqAwg vwlw ilbws [ horu ikqY—iksy hor QW [1[
gurmuiK—gurU dy snmuK ho ky [ invwir—dUr kr [ kihAw—AwiKAw hoieAw bcn [ min—mn ivc [ haumY—haumYN, mYN v`fw bx jwvW [1[rhwau[
mwxku—moqI [ nwim—nwm ivc (juiVAW) [ piq—ie`zq [ imil—iml ky [ Awpu—Awpw-Bwv, suAwrQ [ sll—pwxI [2[
ijin—ijs (mnu`K) ny [ su—auh (mnu`K) [ Aauguix—AOgux ivc (itikAw rih ky) [ AwvY jwie—jMmdw mrdw hY [ ijsu—ijs (mnu`K) nUµ [ ByitE—imilAw [ Baujil—Baujl ivc, sMswr-smuMdr ivc [ pcY pcwie—in`q ^uAwr huMdw rihMdw hY [3[
ris—pRym nwl [ sujwx—isAwxy [ sy—auh bMdy [ gur imil—gurU nUµ iml ky [ qy—auh (bhu-vcn) [ Duin—Awvwz, gUMj, lhr [ nIswxu—DONsw [4[
ArQ:- hy mn! gurU dI srn pY ky (iqRSnw dI) A`g dUr kr skIdI hY [ jdoN gurU dw d`isAw hoieAw aupdyS mn ivc itk jwey, qW mYN v`fw ho jwvW mYN v`fw ho jwvW—ieh lwlc mukw leIdw hY [1[rhwau[
(gurU dI srn C`f ky) jy mnu`K (sMinAws-ByK Dwr ky) dys dys ivc BONdw iPry, (QW QW) BOx nwl (iqRSnw dI) A`g bu`J nhIN skdI, AMdroN (ivkwrW dI) mYl nhIN lihMdI, Ajyhw jIvn iPtkwr-jog hI rihMdw hY, Ajyhw ByK iPtkwr hI KWdw hY [ (ieh g`l p`k jwx ik) siqgurU dI is`iKAw gRihx krn qoN ibnw hor iksy QW BI prmwqmw dI BgqI nhIN ho skdI (qy BgqI qoN ibnw iqRSnw nhIN mu`kdI) [1[
prmwqmw dy nwm ivc juV ky ieh mn vf-mu`lw moqI bx jWdw hY, (hr QW) ie`zq pWdw hY [ (pr) prmwqmw dw nwm swD sMgiq ivc iml ky hI pRwpq huMdw hY, gurU dI srn ipAW hI prmwqmw (dy crnW) ivc suriq juVdI hY [ (pRBU-crnW ivc suriq itikAW mnu`K dy AMdroN) Awpw-Bwv dUr ho jWdw hY, Awqmk Anµd imldw hY (prmwqmw nwl mnu`K ieauN iek-imk ho jWdw hY) ijvyN pwxI nwl pwxI iml ky iek-rUp ho jWdw hY [2[
ijs mnu`K ny prmwqmw dw nwm nhIN ismirAw, auh ivkwrI jIvn ivc rih ky jMmdw mrdw hY [ ijs mnu`K nUµ siqgurU nhIN imilAw auh sMswr-smuMdr (dy ivkwrW) ivc hI ^uAwr huMdw rihMdw hY [ (pRBU dI AMs) ieh ijMd vf-mu`lw moqI hY, (pr) ies qrHW (ivkwrW ivc Kicq ho ky) kaufI dy v`ty zwieAw ho jWdw hY [3[
ijnHW mnu`KW nUµ pRym dy kwrn siqgurU imldw hY, auh pUry (BWfy) hn, auh isAwxy hn (ikauNik) gurU nUµ iml ky hI sMswr-smuMdr qoN pwr lµG skIdw hY, pRBU dI hzUrI ivc ie`zq imldI hY, kbUl hovIdw hY [ hy nwnk! auh bMdy au~jl-mu`K (sur^rU) hn, ijnHW dy AMdr gurU dw Sbd-vwjw v`jdw hY (Bwv, gurU dw Sbd Awpxw pUrw pRBwv pweI r`Kdw hY), (ismrn dI) lhr au`~TI rihMdI hY [4[22[

Source:  http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0022.html


----------



## Archived_Member1

Sardara123 said:


> Jasleen Ji and All,
> 
> I am the one who started this topic, Jasleen Ji you asked the question by grabing a few lines from my post.
> 
> 
> As I am reading through the thread, it appears that Jasleen Bhenji feels insulted when another member asked her the same question to explain the same thing she herself asked before.
> 
> SO WAS ALL THIS QUESTION ASKING HAPPENED TO BE WITH A MOTIVE TO INSULT ME?
> 
> SO MANY TIMES THE SAME QUESTION WAS ASKED IN A ROUND ABOUT MANNER TO ALL THOSE WHO POST GURBANI AND ALL THE KIND OF COMMENTS WERE MADE ON THEM. WAS ALL THE INTENT HERE TO INSULT THE PEOPLE WHO DEPEND ON GURBANI INSTEAD OF THEIR OWN WRITTING? EVEN ONE MEMBER WENT TO THE EXTENT OF CLASSIFYING THEM AS A CULT.
> 
> CAN SOMEBODY THROW SOME LIGHT ON THIS, PLEASE.
> 
> BECAUSE HER COMMENT IS REALLY DISTURBING.


 

bhenji, i don't think anyone here is trying to insult you.  

i think there are a couple of people here who take delight in making me squirm with discomfort, hence the confusion about my questions.  but please don't take any of it as being directed at you.  

i only meant to encourage vichaar.  i'm sorry for any undesired side effects.


----------



## Sardara123

jasleen_kaur said:


> bhenji, i don't think anyone here is trying to insult you.
> 
> i think there are a couple of people here who take delight in making me squirm with discomfort, hence the confusion about my questions. but please don't take any of it as being directed at you.
> 
> i only meant to encourage vichaar. i'm sorry for any undesired side effects.


 


Bhen I am not a bhenji, I am a man.    

My purpose is to discourage the force on others to answer a question in a specific way. That must be one's own preference, their choice. That's all. Not everybody is same: waheguru didn't make all the five fingers alike. Everybody's face is different. Everybody's mental capacity and the capacity to express their intelligence and understanding is different. 

If a few people will start forcing all the others to live in a specific way because that's their way, Can this be peacefull. 

Please try to consider others LIMITATIONS, that's all I have to say Bhen Ji.



There is no confusion whatsoever.


----------



## Sardara123

Jasleen Kaur Bhen, 

Aad Ji has started the following with a purpose to encourage the vichaar on the original topic, I also made my 'equal to nothing' contribution, please provide your valuable contribution.




aad0002 said:


> AmbarDhara ji, all in the thread. Glad we are all trying to be good companions to one another. Good friends. So let's go back to our vichaar with friendship in the sangat. Let me start things off, and others can reply.
> 
> Guruji is saying in Siri Raag, that we never know when we will draw our last breath. Love that joins us together comes from His Grace. But this is possible only when we are united with Him. Like birds who peck at the edges of a pond one day and are gone the next, so the play that we are in is very short. What endures is His Love. In remembrance of His immaculate name, by allowing ourselves to be pierced by his Word, we realize that there is nothing more that we need to do. And that we have discovered what is truly important.
> 
> 
> 
> ਸਚਾ ਨੇਹੁ ਨ ਤੁਟਈ ਜੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਭੇਟੈ ਸੋਇ ॥
> *sachaa naehu n thuttee jae sathigur bhaettai soe ||*
> True love shall not be broken, if the *True Guru* is met.
> 
> ਗਿਆਨ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਸੋਝੀ ਹੋਇ ॥
> *giaan padhaarathh paaeeai thribhavan sojhee hoe ||*
> Obtaining the wealth of spiritual wisdom, the understanding of the three worlds is acquired.
> 
> ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਜੇ ਗੁਣ ਕਾ ਗਾਹਕੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੭॥
> *niramal naam n veesarai jae gun kaa gaahak hoe ||7||*
> So become a customer of merit, and do not forget the Immaculate Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||7||
> 
> ਖੇਲਿ ਗਏ ਸੇ ਪੰਖਣੂੰ ਜੋ ਚੁਗਦੇ ਸਰ ਤਲਿ ॥
> *khael geae sae pankhanoon jo chugadhae sar thal ||*
> Those birds which peck at the shore of the pool have played and have departed.
> 
> ਘੜੀ ਕਿ ਮੁਹਤਿ ਕਿ ਚਲਣਾ ਖੇਲਣੁ ਅਜੁ ਕਿ ਕਲਿ ॥
> *gharree k muhath k chalanaa khaelan aj k kal ||*
> In a moment, in an instant, we too must depart. Our play is only for today or tomorrow.
> 
> ਜਿਸੁ ਤੂੰ ਮੇਲਹਿ ਸੋ ਮਿਲੈ ਜਾਇ ਸਚਾ ਪਿੜੁ ਮਲਿ ॥੮॥
> *jis thoon maelehi so milai jaae sachaa pirr mal ||8||*
> But those whom You unite, Lord, are united with You; they obtain a seat in the Arena of Truth. ||8||
> 
> ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਨ ਊਪਜੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
> *bin gur preeth n oopajai houmai mail n jaae ||*
> Without the Guru, love does not well up, and the filth of egotism does not depart.
> 
> ਸੋਹੰ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੀਐ ਸਬਦਿ ਭੇਦਿ ਪਤੀਆਇ ॥
> *sohan aap pashhaaneeai sabadh bhaedh patheeaae ||*
> One who recognizes within himself that, ""He is me"", and who is pierced through by the Shabad, is satisfied.
> 
> ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੀਐ ਅਵਰ ਕਿ ਕਰੇ ਕਰਾਇ ॥੯॥
> *guramukh aap pashhaaneeai avar k karae karaae ||9||*
> When one becomes Gurmukh and realizes his own self, what more is there left to do or have done? ||9||
> 
> ਮਿਲਿਆ ਕਾ ਕਿਆ ਮੇਲੀਐ ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਪਤੀਆਇ ॥
> *miliaa kaa kiaa maeleeai sabadh milae patheeaae ||*
> Why speak of union to those who are already united with the Lord? Receiving the Shabad, they are satisfied.
> 
> 
> 
> Sri Raag
> Guru Naanak Dev
> Ang 60


 




			
				Sardara123 said:
			
		

> Without the true Guru, we can't come to know the Truth. True Guru, through His teachings show us the right path. He clears all our doubts.
> 
> 
> Guru Ji explains in the following Shabad
> 
> Shabad Gurbani:
> 
> isrIrwgu mhlw 1 ]
> Brmy Bwih n ivJvY jy BvY idsMqr dysu ]
> AMqir mYlu n auqrY iDRgu jIvxu iDRgu vysu ]
> horu ikqY Bgiq n hoveI ibnu siqgur ky aupdys ]1]
> mn ry gurmuiK Agin invwir ]
> gur kw kihAw min vsY haumY iqRsnw mwir ]1] rhwau ]
> mnu mwxku inrmolu hY rwm nwim piq pwie ]
> imil sqsMgiq hir pweIAY gurmuiK hir ilv lwie ]
> Awpu gieAw suKu pwieAw imil sllY sll smwie ]2]
> ijin hir hir nwmu n cyiqE su Aauguix AwvY jwie ]
> ijsu sqguru purKu n ByitE su Baujil pcY pcwie ]
> iehu mwxku jIau inrmolu hY ieau kaufI bdlY jwie ]3]
> ijMnw sqguru ris imlY sy pUry purK sujwx ]
> gur imil Baujlu lµGIAY drgh piq prvwxu ]
> nwnk qy muK aujly Duin aupjY sbdu nIswxu ]4]22]
> 
> 
> 
> English Translation:
> 
> Siree Raag, First Mehl:
> The fire of doubt is not extinguished, even by wandering through foreign lands and countries.
> If inner filth is not removed, one's life is cursed, and one's clothes are cursed.
> There is no other way to perform devotional worship, except through the Teachings of the True Guru. ||1||
> O mind, become Gurmukh, and extinguish the fire within.
> Let the Words of the Guru abide within your mind; let egotism and desires die. ||1||Pause||
> The jewel of the mind is priceless; through the Name of the Lord, honor is obtained.
> Join the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, and find the Lord. The Gurmukh embraces love for the Lord.
> Give up your selfishness, and you shall find peace; like water mingling with water, you shall merge in absorption. ||2||
> Those who have not contemplated the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, are unworthy; they come and go in reincarnation.
> One who has not met with the True Guru, the Primal Being, is bothered and bewildered in the terrifying world-ocean.
> This jewel of the soul is priceless, and yet it is being squandered like this, in exchange for a mere shell. ||3||
> Those who joyfully meet with the True Guru are perfectly fulfilled and wise.
> Meeting with the Guru, they cross over the terrifying world-ocean. In the Court of the Lord, they are honored and approved.
> O Nanak, their faces are radiant; the Music of the Shabad, the Word of God, wells up within them. ||4||22||
> 
> source:SikhiToTheMax
> 
> 
> 
> Punjabi Translation of the Shabad:
> 
> pdArQ:- BrmY—BOx nwl [ Bwih—A`g [ ivJvY—bu`JdI [ dysu idsMqr—dysu dys AMqr—hor hor dys [ AMqir—AMdrlI [ iDRgu—iPtkwr-jog [ vysu—ByK, iqAwg vwlw ilbws [ horu ikqY—iksy hor QW [1[
> gurmuiK—gurU dy snmuK ho ky [ invwir—dUr kr [ kihAw—AwiKAw hoieAw bcn [ min—mn ivc [ haumY—haumYN, mYN v`fw bx jwvW [1[rhwau[
> mwxku—moqI [ nwim—nwm ivc (juiVAW) [ piq—ie`zq [ imil—iml ky [ Awpu—Awpw-Bwv, suAwrQ [ sll—pwxI [2[
> ijin—ijs (mnu`K) ny [ su—auh (mnu`K) [ Aauguix—AOgux ivc (itikAw rih ky) [ AwvY jwie—jMmdw mrdw hY [ ijsu—ijs (mnu`K) nUµ [ ByitE—imilAw [ Baujil—Baujl ivc, sMswr-smuMdr ivc [ pcY pcwie—in`q ^uAwr huMdw rihMdw hY [3[
> ris—pRym nwl [ sujwx—isAwxy [ sy—auh bMdy [ gur imil—gurU nUµ iml ky [ qy—auh (bhu-vcn) [ Duin—Awvwz, gUMj, lhr [ nIswxu—DONsw [4[
> ArQ:- hy mn! gurU dI srn pY ky (iqRSnw dI) A`g dUr kr skIdI hY [ jdoN gurU dw d`isAw hoieAw aupdyS mn ivc itk jwey, qW mYN v`fw ho jwvW mYN v`fw ho jwvW—ieh lwlc mukw leIdw hY [1[rhwau[
> (gurU dI srn C`f ky) jy mnu`K (sMinAws-ByK Dwr ky) dys dys ivc BONdw iPry, (QW QW) BOx nwl (iqRSnw dI) A`g bu`J nhIN skdI, AMdroN (ivkwrW dI) mYl nhIN lihMdI, Ajyhw jIvn iPtkwr-jog hI rihMdw hY, Ajyhw ByK iPtkwr hI KWdw hY [ (ieh g`l p`k jwx ik) siqgurU dI is`iKAw gRihx krn qoN ibnw hor iksy QW BI prmwqmw dI BgqI nhIN ho skdI (qy BgqI qoN ibnw iqRSnw nhIN mu`kdI) [1[
> prmwqmw dy nwm ivc juV ky ieh mn vf-mu`lw moqI bx jWdw hY, (hr QW) ie`zq pWdw hY [ (pr) prmwqmw dw nwm swD sMgiq ivc iml ky hI pRwpq huMdw hY, gurU dI srn ipAW hI prmwqmw (dy crnW) ivc suriq juVdI hY [ (pRBU-crnW ivc suriq itikAW mnu`K dy AMdroN) Awpw-Bwv dUr ho jWdw hY, Awqmk Anµd imldw hY (prmwqmw nwl mnu`K ieauN iek-imk ho jWdw hY) ijvyN pwxI nwl pwxI iml ky iek-rUp ho jWdw hY [2[
> ijs mnu`K ny prmwqmw dw nwm nhIN ismirAw, auh ivkwrI jIvn ivc rih ky jMmdw mrdw hY [ ijs mnu`K nUµ siqgurU nhIN imilAw auh sMswr-smuMdr (dy ivkwrW) ivc hI ^uAwr huMdw rihMdw hY [ (pRBU dI AMs) ieh ijMd vf-mu`lw moqI hY, (pr) ies qrHW (ivkwrW ivc Kicq ho ky) kaufI dy v`ty zwieAw ho jWdw hY [3[
> ijnHW mnu`KW nUµ pRym dy kwrn siqgurU imldw hY, auh pUry (BWfy) hn, auh isAwxy hn (ikauNik) gurU nUµ iml ky hI sMswr-smuMdr qoN pwr lµG skIdw hY, pRBU dI hzUrI ivc ie`zq imldI hY, kbUl hovIdw hY [ hy nwnk! auh bMdy au~jl-mu`K (sur^rU) hn, ijnHW dy AMdr gurU dw Sbd-vwjw v`jdw hY (Bwv, gurU dw Sbd Awpxw pUrw pRBwv pweI r`Kdw hY), (ismrn dI) lhr au`~TI rihMdI hY [4[22[
> 
> Source: http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0022.html


----------



## ekmusafir_ajnabi

ਸਚਾ ਨੇਹੁ ਨ ਤੁਟਈ ਜੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਭੇਟੈ ਸੋਇ ॥ 
*sachaa naehu n thuttee jae sathigur bhaettai soe ||*
True love shall not be broken, if the *True Guru* is met.

Sacẖā nėhu na ṯut&shy;eaee jė saṯgur bẖėtai so&shy;ė.

ṯuteaee – tott aa jani – ghat jani - to diminish – to lessen – to reduce – to shorten

bẖėtai – comes from the word bheta – means offering – to present –that is bestowed upon

so&shy;ė – HE Himself

True love does not diminish, if the HE Himself bestows the union with a True Guru.

The true Guru is only met/ordained by His Blessings(Kripa). Once the Link with the True Guru is bestowed, the love/bond between them does not diminish. It becomes stronger and stronger.

ਗਿਆਨ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਸੋਝੀ ਹੋਇ ॥ 
*giaan padhaarathh paaeeai thribhavan sojhee hoe ||*
Obtaining the wealth of spiritual wisdom, the understanding of the three worlds is acquired.

One obtains the wealth of spiritual wisdom and the awareness of the three worlds is acquired.

ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਜੇ ਗੁਣ ਕਾ ਗਾਹਕੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੭॥ 
*niramal naam n veesarai jae gun kaa gaahak hoe ||7||*
So become a customer of merit, and do not forget the Immaculate Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||7||

The Imaculate Naam is not forgotten, if one is a cutomer of merit.

ਖੇਲਿ ਗਏ ਸੇ ਪੰਖਣੂੰ ਜੋ ਚੁਗਦੇ ਸਰ ਤਲਿ ॥ 
*khael geae sae pankhanoon jo chugadhae sar thal ||*
Those birds which peck at the shore of the pool have played and have departed.

Those birds have played and departed that pecked at the pond.
i.e. people that were playing their part (in this Dharamshalla) have played and departed.


Aad ji,


ਗਿਆਨ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਸੋਝੀ ਹੋਇ ॥ 
*giaan padhaarathh paaeeai thribhavan sojhee hoe ||*

Can you enlighten us about What is this Spiritual Wisdom ? that is being mentioned here.

Kind Regards
Ekmusafir_Ajnabi


----------



## spnadmin

Sardara123,

You inspired me to go to gurbani.org to find something that speaks to finding unity and union. I found this by T Singh in the vichaar section.

_Grace is none other than the perfect freedom from Maya and ego-mind. Hence    the nature of Grace is redeeming, enlightening and liberating from the birth    and death cycle. But when we act egocentrically (reactionary Karma),    the flow of Divine Grace become shielded. As a result, even though Grace is    always there, but we are unable to experience It fully. Just as an inverted    pitcher can not be filled with liquid, similarly, a spiritually unfit heart    or mind can not receive or be filled with God's Grace. In other words, if we    sit inside our dinghies without unfurling the sails, then we cannot expect to    go to the other side. Similarly, although Divine Grace always flows everywhere    like the breeze, if our efforts and consciousness are not linked to It, we cannot    experience It. Without following the Divine guidance and Truth of the scriptures,    our extrovert mind becomes divided (duality or "__Doojaa Bhaav")    between instinctive and intellectual forces, making it very difficult to become    poised or still enough to experience the Grace within.
_
How to become poised, still enough, to feel Grace within  us?  I don 't know. It is still "out there",  until the time when I realize that  it already exists within. So I look to the Shabd Guru for a clue.

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ 
 ik oankar sathigur prasadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:              

ਹਮ ਭੀਖਕ ਭੇਖਾਰੀ ਤੇਰੇ ਤੂ ਨਿਜ ਪਤਿ ਹੈ ਦਾਤਾ ॥ 
 ham bheekhak bhaekharee thaerae thoo nij path hai dhatha ||
I am just a poor beggar of Yours; You are Your Own Lord Master, You are the Great Giver.          

ਹੋਹੁ ਦੈਆਲ ਨਾਮੁ ਦੇਹੁ ਮੰਗਤ ਜਨ ਕੰਉ ਸਦਾ ਰਹਉ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤਾ ॥੧॥ 
 hohu dhaial nam dhaehu mangath jan kano sadha reho rang ratha ||1||
Be Merciful, and bless me, a humble beggar, with Your Name, so that I may forever remain imbued with Your Love. ||1||

ਹੰਉ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੈ ਜਾਉ ਸਾਚੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਮ ਵਿਟਹੁ ॥ 
 hano baliharai jao sachae thaerae nam vittahu ||
I am a sacrifice to Your Name, O True Lord.            

ਕਰਣ ਕਾਰਣ ਸਭਨਾ ਕਾ ਏਕੋ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ਕੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
 karan karan sabhana ka eaeko avar n dhooja koee ||1|| rehao ||
The One Lord is the Cause of causes; there is no other at all. ||1||Pause||             

ਬਹੁਤੇ ਫੇਰ ਪਏ ਕਿਰਪਨ ਕਉ ਅਬ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕੀਜੈ ॥ 
 bahuthae faer peae kirapan ko ab kishh kirapa keejai ||
I was wretched; I wandered through so many cycles of reincarnation. Now, Lord, please bless me with Your Grace.           

ਹੋਹੁ ਦਇਆਲ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਦੇਹੁ ਅਪੁਨਾ ਐਸੀ ਬਖਸ ਕਰੀਜੈ ॥੨॥ 
 hohu dhaeial dharasan dhaehu apuna aisee bakhas kareejai ||2||
Be merciful, and grant me the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan; please grant me such a gift. ||2||

ਭਨਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਰਮ ਪਟ ਖੂਲ੍*ੇ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥ 
 bhanath naanak bharam patt khoolhae gur parasadhee jania ||
Prays Nanak, the shutters of doubt have been opened wide; by Guru's Grace, I have come to know the Lord.        

ਸਾਚੀ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਹੈ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਿਉ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੩॥੧॥੯॥ 
 sachee liv lagee hai bheethar sathigur sio man mania ||3||1||9||
I am filled to overflowing with true love; my mind is pleased and appeased by the True Guru. ||3||1||9||

Guru Amar Das
Ang 68


----------



## spnadmin

ekmusafir_ajnabi said:


> ਸਚਾ ਨੇਹੁ ਨ ਤੁਟਈ ਜੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਭੇਟੈ ਸੋਇ ॥
> *sachaa naehu n thuttee jae sathigur bhaettai soe ||*
> True love shall not be broken, if the *True Guru* is met.
> 
> Sacẖā nėhu na ṯut*eaee jė saṯgur bẖėtai so*ė.
> 
> ṯuteaee – tott aa jani – ghat jani - to diminish – to lessen – to reduce – to shorten
> 
> bẖėtai – comes from the word bheta – means offering – to present –that is bestowed upon
> 
> so*ė – HE Himself
> 
> True love does not diminish, if the HE Himself bestows the union with a True Guru.
> 
> The true Guru is only met/ordained by His Blessings(Kripa). Once the Link with the True Guru is bestowed, the love/bond between them does not diminish. It becomes stronger and stronger.
> 
> ਗਿਆਨ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਸੋਝੀ ਹੋਇ ॥
> *giaan padhaarathh paaeeai thribhavan sojhee hoe ||*
> Obtaining the wealth of spiritual wisdom, the understanding of the three worlds is acquired.
> 
> One obtains the wealth of spiritual wisdom and the awareness of the three worlds is acquired.
> 
> ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਜੇ ਗੁਣ ਕਾ ਗਾਹਕੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੭॥
> *niramal naam n veesarai jae gun kaa gaahak hoe ||7||*
> So become a customer of merit, and do not forget the Immaculate Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||7||
> 
> The Imaculate Naam is not forgotten, if one is a cutomer of merit.
> 
> ਖੇਲਿ ਗਏ ਸੇ ਪੰਖਣੂੰ ਜੋ ਚੁਗਦੇ ਸਰ ਤਲਿ ॥
> *khael geae sae pankhanoon jo chugadhae sar thal ||*
> Those birds which peck at the shore of the pool have played and have departed.
> 
> Those birds have played and departed that pecked at the pond.
> i.e. people that were playing their part (in this Dharamshalla) have played and departed.
> 
> 
> Aad ji,
> 
> 
> ਗਿਆਨ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਸੋਝੀ ਹੋਇ ॥
> *giaan padhaarathh paaeeai thribhavan sojhee hoe ||*
> 
> Can you enlighten us about What is this Spiritual Wisdom ? that is being mentioned here.
> 
> Kind Regards
> Ekmusafir_Ajnabi



Veer ji

You have answered in part the question yourself. The True Lord in His Grace and Mercy puts it there, once we open our hearts to His Shabad. My personal bias is to say that the more one *talks about, lectures about, goes on and on about *What it is, the Less of it is there. If I or you or we have anything of spiritual wisdom to say,  it will be His voice speaking. 

And wishing to add belatedly, The Guru still wants our heads.

Kind regards


----------



## AmbarDhara

True Guru's Company is obtained by His Bessings. Only Guru can bless one with Sipiritual Wisdom. Everything is in His Hands. He blesses with Wisdom when and whom He Himself choses. Gur Bin Gyaan Na Hoi. Guru instills everything within.​ 

Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
SGGS JI​ 
ANG 49​ 
SATGURU PRASAAD​ 
ਪਰਵਦਗਾਰੁ ਸਾਲਾਹੀਐ ਜਿਸ ਦੇ ਚਲਤ ਅਨੇਕ ॥ 
paravadhagaar saalaaheeai jis dhae chalath anaek ||
Praise God, the Nurturer and Cherisher; His Wondrous Ways are unlimited.​ 

ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਆਰਾਧੀਐ ਏਹਾ ਮਤਿ ਵਿਸੇਖ ॥ 
sadhaa sadhaa aaraadhheeai eaehaa math visaekh ||
Forever and ever, worship and adore Him; this is the most wonderful wisdom.​ 

ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਲਗੈ ਜਿਸੁ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਲੇਖ ॥੪॥੧੯॥੮੯॥ 
man than mithaa this lagai jis masathak naanak laekh ||4||19||89||
O Nanak, God's Flavor is sweet to the minds and bodies of those who have such blessed destiny written on their foreheads. ||4||19||89||​ 


Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
SGGS JI​ 
ANG 55​ 
SATGURU PRASAAD​ 
ਬਾਝੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਬਾਰੁ ਹੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਬੂਝ ਨ ਪਾਇ ॥ 
baajh guroo gubaar hai bin sabadhai boojh n paae ||
Without the Guru, there is only pitch darkness; without the Shabad, understanding is not obtained.​ 

ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਪਰਗਾਸੁ ਹੋਇ ਸਚਿ ਰਹੈ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥ 
guramathee paragaas hoe sach rehai liv laae ||
Through the Guru's Teachings, you shall be enlightened; remain absorbed in the Love of the True Lord.​ 

ਤਿਥੈ ਕਾਲੁ ਨ ਸੰਚਰੈ ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੬॥ 
thithhai kaal n sancharai jothee joth samaae ||6||
Death does not go there; your light shall merge with the Light. ||6||​ 

ਤੂੰਹੈ ਸਾਜਨੁ ਤੂੰ ਸੁਜਾਣੁ ਤੂੰ ਆਪੇ ਮੇਲਣਹਾਰੁ ॥ 
thoonhai saajan thoon sujaan thoon aapae maelanehaar ||
You are my Best Friend; You are All-knowing. You are the One who unites us with Yourself.​ 

ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਸਾਲਾਹੀਐ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰੁ ॥ 
gur sabadhee saalaaheeai anth n paaraavaar ||
Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, we praise You; You have no end or limitation.​ 

ਤਿਥੈ ਕਾਲੁ ਨ ਅਪੜੈ ਜਿਥੈ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਅਪਾਰੁ ॥੭॥ 
thithhai kaal n aparrai jithhai gur kaa sabadh apaar ||7||
Death does not reach that place, where the Infinite Word of the Guru's Shabad resounds. ||7||​ 


Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
SGGS JI​ 
ANG 59
SATGURU PRASAAD​




ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥ 
bhaaee rae gur bin giaan n hoe ||
O Siblings of Destiny, without the Guru, there is no spiritual wisdom.​ 

ਪੂਛਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਨਾਰਦੈ ਬੇਦ ਬਿਆਸੈ ਕੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
pooshhahu brehamae naaradhai baedh biaasai koe ||1|| rehaao ||
Go and ask Brahma, Naarad and Vyaas, the writer of the Vedas. ||1||Pause||​ 

ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਧੁਨਿ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਅਕਥੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਸੋਇ ॥ 
giaan dhhiaan dhhun jaaneeai akathh kehaavai soe ||
Know that from the vibration of the Word, we obtain spiritual wisdom and meditation. Through it, we speak the Unspoken.​ 

ਸਫਲਿਓ ਬਿਰਖੁ ਹਰੀਆਵਲਾ ਛਾਵ ਘਣੇਰੀ ਹੋਇ ॥ 
safaliou birakh hareeaavalaa shhaav ghanaeree hoe ||
He is the fruit-bearing Tree, luxuriantly green with abundant shade.​


ਲਾਲ ਜਵੇਹਰ ਮਾਣਕੀ ਗੁਰ ਭੰਡਾਰੈ ਸੋਇ ॥੨॥ 
laal javaehar maanakee gur bhanddaarai soe ||2||
The rubies, jewels and emeralds are in the Guru's Treasury. ||2||​ 

Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
SGGS JI
ANG 78​ 
SATGURU PRASAAD​ 

ਸਗਲੀ ਰੈਣਿ ਗੁਦਰੀ ਅੰਧਿਆਰੀ ਸੇਵਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ 
sagalee rain gudharee andhhiaaree saev sathigur chaanan hoe ||
The entire night of your life has passed away in darkness; but by serving the True Guru, the Divine Light shall dawn within.​ 


Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
SGGS JI​ 

ANG 87​ 
SATGURU PRASAAD​ 
ਗੁਰ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਹਜੁ ਨ ਆਵਈ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਜਾਇ ॥
gur vin sehaj n aavee lobh mail n vichahu jaae ||
Without the Guru, intuitive wisdom does not come, and the filth of greed does not depart from within.​ 


Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
SGGS JI​

ANG 88​ 
SATGURU PRASAAD​​ 


ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਜਿਨੀ ਨ ਸੇਵਿਓ ਸਬਦਿ ਨ ਕੀਤੋ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ 
sathigur jinee n saeviou sabadh n keetho veechaar ||
Those who do not serve the True Guru, and who do not contemplate the Word of the Shabad​ 

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਨ ਆਇਓ ਮਿਰਤਕੁ ਹੈ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ॥ 
anthar giaan n aaeiou mirathak hai sansaar ||
-spiritual wisdom does not enter into their hearts; they are like dead bodies in the world.​ 


Gurbani eis jag meh chaanan
Gurbani alakh lakhiayaa
Gurbani Gavo Bhaee
charan kamal parabh kay nit Dhi-aava-o​ 


Guru JI tells us everything. Every question is answered by Guru Ji in Gurbani. The main thing that matters is: do we consider Guru Ji our Guru, or it is just galli baati(mere talk). Love, Devotion, 100% faith, total surrender is needed, Humility is needed(can't consider ourselves any better, Guru Ji advises us to stay very very low), One has to become a Gurmukh and then after all this if Guru Ji is pleased the doors of Wisdom are opened. All is in His Hands. Complete surrender is needed. Guru Kirpa. Eh Maarg Khandeydhaar.​


----------



## AmbarDhara

Everthing happens with Guru's Grace:



Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
SGGS JI​ 
SATGURU PRASAAD​ 

ਜਾਂ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਾ ਲਾਗੈ ਭਾਉ ॥ 
jaan this bhaavai thaa laagai bhaao ||
As it pleases Him, people embrace love for the Lord,


ਭਰਮੁ ਭੁਲਾਵਾ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਜਾਇ ॥ 
bharam bhulaavaa vichahu jaae ||
and doubt and delusion are dispelled from within.


ਉਪਜੈ ਸਹਜੁ ਗਿਆਨ ਮਤਿ ਜਾਗੈ ॥ 
oupajai sehaj giaan math jaagai ||
Intuitive peace and poise well up within, and the intellect is awakened to spiritual wisdom.


ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੈ ॥੩॥ 
gur prasaadh anthar liv laagai ||3||
By Guru's Grace, the inner being is touched by the Lord's Love. ||3||​ 


Gurbani eis jag meh chaanan
Gurbani alakh lakhiayaa
Gurbani Gavo Bhaee
charan kamal parabh kay nit Dhi-aava-o​


----------



## AmbarDhara

And only a true Guru can Bless, not a blind one.



			
				Sardara123 said:
			
		

> We need True Guru. Without SatGuru we cant achieve the liberation from the cycle of birth and death. Guru Ji tells us that without the Guru our true Self cant be known. Guru's Word has tremendous powers, undescribable powers. It sooths us and saves us from the terrible pains.
> 
> In the Following Shabad Guru Ji tells us the importance of a True Guru. He also makes us aware of the fact that a blind/false Guru misleads his or her followers, those people who follow a blind Guru stay in the cycle of birth and death, they cant achieve liberation.
> ----
> ----
> Those chaylaas, those devotees, whose spiritual teacher is blind, shall not find their place of rest.
> Without the True Guru, the Name is not obtained. Without the Name, what is the use of it all?
> People come and go, regretting and repenting, like crows in a deserted house. ||3||
> 
> ---


----------



## Sardara123

Dear aad Ji,



			
				aad0002 said:
			
		

> ਬਹੁਤੇ ਫੇਰ ਪਏ ਕਿਰਪਨ ਕਉ ਅਬ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕੀਜੈ ॥
> bahuthae faer peae kirapan ko ab kishh kirapa keejai ||
> I was wretched; I wandered through so many cycles of reincarnation. Now, Lord, please bless me with Your Grace.


 
I love this shabad, Here is another one I like a lot.

This following Shabad is also really a beautiful one, I sing this all the time whenever I feel my mind is trying to wander away from simran. It is like Prayer- Ardaas. Always soothing.

Shabad Gurbani:

iblwvlu mhlw 5 ]
dws qyry kI bynqI ird kir prgwsu ]
qum@rI ik®pw qy pwrbRhm doKn ko nwsu ]1]
crn kml kw Awsrw pRB purK guxqwsu ]
kIrqn nwmu ismrq rhau jb lgu Git swsu ]1] rhwau ]
mwq ipqw bMDp qUhY qU srb invwsu ]
nwnk pRB srxwgqI jw ko inrml jwsu ]2]7]71]


English Translations:
Bilaaval, Fifth Mehl:
This is the prayer of Your slave: please enlighten my heart.
By Your Mercy, O Supreme Lord God, please erase my sins. ||1||
I take the Support of Your Lotus Feet, O God, Primal Lord, treasure of virtue.
I shall meditate in remembrance on the Praises of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, as long as there is breath in my body. ||1||Pause||
You are my mother, father and relative; You are abiding within all.
Nanak seeks the Sanctuary of God; His Praise is immaculate and pure. ||2||7||71||
source: SikhiToTheMax


----------



## ekmusafir_ajnabi

aad0002 said:


> Veer ji
> 
> You have answered in part the question yourself. The True Lord in His Grace and Mercy puts it there, once we open our hearts to His Shabad. My personal bias is to say that the more one *talks about, lectures about, goes on and on about *What it is, the Less of it is there. If I or you or we have anything of spiritual wisdom to say, it will be His voice speaking.
> 
> And wishing to add belatedly, The Guru still wants our heads.
> 
> Kind regards


 
Aad ji,

I was under the impression that the cut/paste work that is put in the forum is well understood by the poster. It appears not. What surprises me is that we have 1430 pages of wisdom given to us by Our Gurus yet the Sikh is still looking out for Spiritual Wisdom to drop from the sky. The only answer to this that one is not prepared to understand what is being said by our Gurus and one is happy killing a fly on top of another dead one. I refer here to the circulation of mistranslations being cut and pasted. Please do not make fun of Gurbani.

AmberDhara and Sardara ji,




> True Guru's Company is obtained by His Bessings. Only Guru can bless one with Sipiritual Wisdom. Everything is in His Hands. He blesses with Wisdom when and whom He Himself choses. Gur Bin Gyaan Na Hoi. Guru instills everything within.


 
It seems you are waiting for the arrival of another Guru? Perhaps I am talking to the ones who are still waiting in the queue to be personally blessed. 

A fish whilst living in water says it is thirsty. I burst out in laughter – Bhagat Kabeer ji. Such is the plight of the Sikh today. It appears the Sikh is still waiting for the Guru to come and bless him with knowledge. ********** It is already here if one is a true seeker/a customer of merit, he will find it.

Spiritual knowledge is The Law of the Divine. It lies within the following three concepts bestowed on us by Guru Nanak Dev ji.

_Naam Japo (Meditate on the Naam)_
_Wand Shako (Share your bounty with the less fortunate)_
Dharam di kirat Karo. (Righteous Living)

************(Do not attempt to run before you can walk) Learn and deeply Understand your Japji Sahib first.

Ekmusafir_ajnabi


----------



## spnadmin

As you wish Veer ji.


----------



## Astroboy

ekmusafir_ajnabi said:


> Aad ji,
> 
> I was under the impression that the cut/paste work that is put in the forum is well understood by the poster. It appears not. What surprises me is that we have 1430 pages of wisdom given to us by Our Gurus yet the Sikh is still looking out for Spiritual Wisdom to drop from the sky. The only answer to this that one is not prepared to understand what is being said by our Gurus and one is happy killing a fly on top of another dead one. I refer here to the circulation of mistranslations being cut and pasted. Please do not make fun of Gurbani.
> 
> Spiritual knowledge is The Law of the Divine. It lies within the following three concepts bestowed on us by Guru Nanak Dev ji.
> 
> 
> _Naam Japo (Meditate on the Naam)_
> _Wand Shako (Share your bounty with the less fortunate)_
> Dharam di kirat Karo. (Righteous Living)
> 
> ************(Do not attempt to run before you can walk) Learn and deeply Understand your Japji Sahib first.
> 
> Ekmusafir_ajnabi


 


Ekmusafir Ji,

Can you expand your understanding for many who are new to Sikhism on the practical application of 
_Naam Japo (Meditate on the Naam)
Wand Shako (Share your bounty with the less fortunate)_
Dharam di kirat Karo. (Righteous Living)

I will be grateful. You may want to expand on the 'drop from the sky' phrase too. See, Ek Ji - everybody has an idea about Meditation, Righteous Living and Sharing the bounty but why is it that we are still doubtful about our lives ?

Why is it that we are 'assuring ourselves' by picking shabads from this page and that page of SGGS ?


----------



## spnadmin

NamJap ji, good questions.

Perhaps, repeating the words of Shabad of the Guru, is a problem for some. Anybody's guess. There are some very interesting thoughts on Ang 902. Some that answer your questions. Here is just one.​
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਨਾਉ ਲਏ ਬਦਨਾਵੀ ਕਲਿ ਕੇ ਲਖਣ ਏਈ ॥੩॥ 
jae ko naao leae badhanaavee kal kae lakhan eaeee ||3||
If someone chants the Lord's Name, he is scorned. These are the signs of Kali Yuga. ||3||

What was it that so saddened Guruji on this page? ​


----------



## Astroboy

Aad Ji,

Actually, there are stages of unfoldment one goes through. The 4 LavaN in Raag Suhee are the guidelines of this unfoldment. One step follows another. For example - in 1st Laav it already mentions all 3 (Naam Japo, Honest Living, Compassionate Heart, etc)

Second stage reveals the Anhad Shabad.
But there is a 3rd and 4th stage. If Bani refers to Anhad shabad, then it is not the end of the journey. 

It would be good to discuss all 4 lavaaN within this topic, instead of separating the topics. This can be a good satsang if we stop calling each other names and stick to the discussion.

Thank you aad Ji.


----------



## spnadmin

I hope you are right.


----------



## spnadmin

NamJap ji

You really piqued my curiosity. Is this what you are talking about?

SPIRITUAL ESSENCE OF FOUR LAAVAA: SIKH MARRIAGE CERMONY

Where the 4 laavaa of the marriage ceremony are also describing the 4 stages of spiritual unfoldment. The spiritual realization of the Soul Bride?


----------



## Astroboy

Aad Ji,

The link you're giving rightly puts it (just before the 3rd LaaV) :-

Step-by-step, the Gurbani is helping and guiding the Soul-bride to her Spiritual Destination — Attainment of _Shabad-Surti_ which is same as God-Consciousness, Divine-Consciousness, Cosmic-Consciousness, and so forth. She is two steps closer to meeting her Absolute Groom!


----------



## Archived_Member1

Sardara123 said:


> Bhen I am not a bhenji, I am a man.


 
sorry, i'm not very smart.


----------



## AmbarDhara

ekmusafir_ajnabi said:


> Aad ji,
> 
> I was under the impression that the cut/paste work that is put in the forum is well understood by the poster. It appears not. What surprises me is that we have 1430 pages of wisdom given to us by Our Gurus yet the Sikh is still looking out for Spiritual Wisdom to drop from the sky. The only answer to this that one is not prepared to understand what is being said by our Gurus and one is happy killing a fly on top of another dead one. I refer here to the circulation of mistranslations being cut and pasted. Please do not make fun of Gurbani.
> 
> AmberDhara and Sardara ji,
> 
> 
> 
> It seems you are waiting for the arrival of another Guru? Perhaps I am talking to the ones who are still waiting in the queue to be personally blessed.
> 
> A fish whilst living in water says it is thirsty. I burst out in laughter – Bhagat Kabeer ji. Such is the plight of the Sikh today. It appears the Sikh is still waiting for the Guru to come and bless him with knowledge. ********** It is already here if one is a true seeker/a customer of merit, he will find it.
> 
> Spiritual knowledge is The Law of the Divine. It lies within the following three concepts bestowed on us by Guru Nanak Dev ji.
> 
> _Naam Japo (Meditate on the Naam)_
> _Wand Shako (Share your bounty with the less fortunate)_
> Dharam di kirat Karo. (Righteous Living)
> 
> ************(Do not attempt to run before you can walk) Learn and deeply Understand your Japji Sahib first.
> 
> Ekmusafir_ajnabi


 

Ekmusafir Ji,

Guru is Gurbani, and it is BrahmVichaar. If Guru cant make you understand this then this is not others fault. You can spend years and years to judge others, and denounce their understanding and their way of interpretation, that's not going to help you to prove that you know any better.

Guru is Gurbani and it is BrahmVichaar.


----------



## ekmusafir_ajnabi

namjap said:


> Ekmusafir Ji,
> 
> Can you expand your understanding for many who are new to Sikhism on the practical application of
> _Naam Japo (Meditate on the Naam)_
> _Wand Shako (Share your bounty with the less fortunate)_
> Dharam di kirat Karo. (Righteous Living)
> 
> I will be grateful. You may want to expand on the 'drop from the sky' phrase too. See, Ek Ji - everybody has an idea about Meditation, Righteous Living and Sharing the bounty but why is it that we are still doubtful about our lives ?
> 
> Why is it that we are 'assuring ourselves' by picking shabads from this page and that page of SGGS ?


 
Naamjap ji,

I will expand this in due course. The above forms part of my article on "Misconceptions of Eating Meat in Sikhism". With the blessings of Guru Amar Das ji, I will be covering the above and various other issues and mis-conceptions. You will need to wait for that.

Why is it that we are 'assuring ourselves' by picking shabads from this page and that page of SGGS ?

I have responded to this in the reply to Ambardhara ji below. 

Aad ji,



> NamJap ji, good questions.​
> 
> Perhaps, repeating the words of Shabad of the Guru, is a problem for some. Anybody's guess. There are some very interesting thoughts on Ang 902. Some that answer your questions. Here is just one.​
> 
> ਜੇ ਕੋ ਨਾਉ ਲਏ ਬਦਨਾਵੀ ਕਲਿ ਕੇ ਲਖਣ ਏਈ ॥੩॥
> jae ko naao leae badhanaavee kal kae lakhan eaeee ||3||
> If someone chants the Lord's Name, he is scorned. These are the signs of Kali Yuga. ||3||​
> 
> What was it that so saddened Guruji on this page? ​




The response to your question to Naamjap ji is as follow:​ 
Guru ji's saddness is precisely due to the type of response that you along with other members give in this forum. The response that says "We" know better". If ten people are exercising Manmat and one person points out to them of their shortfall, just because of they have majority, they do not become right. *This is the sign of Kaliyug*. *Whoever tries to assist in correcting the mistakes is scorned.* Even though this goes totally agains the definition of a Sikh(Student)​ 
Having said that, one does the right to exercise their Will. So please do so.​ 
Please do not take this as a personal attack on youself.​ 



> Ekmusafir Ji,





> Guru is Gurbani, and it is BrahmVichaar. If Guru cant make you understand this then this is not others fault. You can spend years and years to judge others, and denounce their understanding and their way of interpretation, that's not going to help you to prove that you know any better.
> 
> Guru is Gurbani and it is BrahmVichaar​


 

Ambardhara ji,

Your response is typical of a child who has begun to discover himself. Whatever "he" learns or begins to understand is the only truth for him. Once the child has discovered something new, he wants to go and show it to everyone. This phase runs out with maturity. So keep trying that day will come. So I will accept what you have said as it is per your understanding.​ 
Kind Regards
Ekmusafir_ajnabi​ 
​​


----------



## AmbarDhara

> Ambardhara ji,
> 
> 
> Your response is typical of a child
> 
> *************************************************************************************************************************
> Kind Regards
> Ekmusafir_ajnabi​


 

Thankyou Ek ji,

Absolutely perfect. My mother told me that I have to become like a baby in front of Guru Ji, I have to follow Guru Ji around like I used to do to my mum when I was a baby.

Thanks for reminding me my mum's words.


----------



## spnadmin

Neither am I that smart either Jjasleen ji. But look at it this way. You are closer to where you want to be than you think. A whole lot of theorizing isn't going to get us there -- and for me the answer is trying to keep a simple mind. I read the articles and then decide if the   author is doing her work/ his work. But I have to do mine. And this is as Guruji points out -- work that is done alone. By posting Gurbani, I celebrate God and share my celebration with others. That's about it. 

No need for me to comment on meat. So I deleted what I said. 

All the best.


----------



## Pyramid

Antar Tere Nidhaan Hai 



Tuhada Das
Yograj


----------



## Pyramid

AmbarDhara said:


> My mother told me that I have to become like a baby in front of Guru Ji, I have to follow Guru Ji around like I used to do to my mum when I was a baby.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me my mum's words.


 
You are the lucky one. Very few of us have mothers like yours.

Tuhada Das
Yograj


----------



## Sardara123

Without the true Guru how a person behaves, Guru Ji is telling us in the following Pauree.

English Translation(source:SikhiToTheMax):
Pauree:
He sees the terrible, awful wilderness as a city.
Gazing upon the false objects, he believes them to be real.
Engrossed in sexual desire, anger and egotism, he wanders around insane.
When the Messenger of Death hits him on the head with his club, then he regrets and repents.
Without the Perfect, Divine Guru, he roams around like Satan. ||9||
source: SikhiToTheMax

Punjabi Translation(source:GuruGranthDarpan):

ਬੜੇ ਡਰਾਉਣੇ ਜੰਗਲ ਨੂੰ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਨੇ ਸ਼ਹਿਰ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਮੰਨ ਲਿਆ ਹੈ, ਇਹਨਾਂ ਨਾਸਵੰਤ ਪਦਾਰਥਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਵੇਖ ਕੇ ਸਦਾ ਟਿਕੇ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਸਮਝ ਲਿਆ ਹੈ। (ਇਸ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਖ਼ਾਤਰ) ਕਾਮ ਵਿਚ ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਵਿਚ ਅਹੰਕਾਰ ਵਿਚ ਝੱਲੇ ਹੋਏ ਫਿਰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਜਦੋਂ ਮੌਤ ਦਾ ਡੰਡਾ ਸਿਰ ਤੇ ਆ ਵੱਜਦਾ ਹੈ, ਤਦੋਂ ਪਛੁਤਾਉਂਦੇ ਹਨ। (ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਮਨੁੱਖ) ਪੂਰੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਸ਼ੈਤਾਨ ਵਾਂਗ ਫਿਰਦਾ ਹੈ।੯।
source: PAGE 707 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).

*Guru Shabad:*
*pauVI ]*
*mhw BieAwn auidAwn ngr kir mwinAw ]*
*JUT smgRI pyiK scu kir jwinAw ]*
*kwm k®oiD AhMkwir iPrih dyvwinAw ]*
*isir lgw jm fMfu qw pCuqwinAw ]*
*ibnu pUry gurdyv iPrY sYqwinAw ]9]*


----------



## Sardara123

Guru Ji tells us:

English Translation(source:SikhiToTheMax)
Gauree, Fifth Mehl:
What form of Yours should I worship and adore?
What Yoga should I practice to control my body? ||1||
What is that virtue, by which I may sing of You?
What is that speech, by which I may please the Supreme Lord God? ||1||Pause||
What worship service shall I perform for You?
How can I cross over the terrifying world-ocean? ||2||
What is that penance, by which I may become a penitent?
What is that Name, by which the filth of egotism may be washed away? ||3||
Virtue, worship, spiritual wisdom, meditation and all service, O Nanak,
are obtained from the True Guru, when, in His Mercy and Kindness, He meets us. ||4||
They alone receive this merit, and they alone know God,
who are approved by the Giver of peace. ||1||Second Pause||36||105||
source: SikhiToTheMax

Punjabi Translation(source:GuruGranthDarpan): 
hy pwrbRhm pRBU! (qyry byAMq gux hn, mYƒ smJ nhIN AwauNdI ik) mYN qyrw kyhVw gux lY ky qyrI is&iq-swlwh krW, qy kyhVy bol bol ky mYN qYƒ pRsMn krW [1[rhwau[
(hy pRBU! jgq dy swry jIv qyrw hI rUp hn qy qyrw koeI BI ^ws rUp nhIN [ mYN nhIN jwxdw ik) qyrw auh kyhVw rUp hY ijs dw mYN iDAwn DrW [ (hy pRBU! mYƒ smJ nhIN ik) jog dw auh kyhVw swDn hY ijs nwl mYN Awpxy srIr ƒ v`s ivc ilAwvW (qy qYƒ pRsMn krW [ jog-swDnW nwl qYƒ pRsMn nhIN kIqw jw skdw) [1[
hy pwrbRhm! mYN qyrI kyhVI pUjw krW (ijs nwl qUM pRsMn ho skyN)? hy pRBU! auh kyhVw qrIkw hY ijs dI rwhIN mYN sMswr-smuMdr qoN pwr lµG jwvW? [2[
auh kyhVw qp-swDn hY ijs nwl mnu`K (kwmXwb) qpsÍI AKvw skdw hY (qy mYƒ ^uS kr skdw hY)? auh kyhVw nwm hY (ijs dw jwp kr ky) (mnu`K Awpxy AMdroN) haumY dI mYl dUr kr skdw hY? [3[
hy nwnk! (mnu`K inry Awpxy au~dm dy Awsry pRBU ƒ pRsMn nhIN kr skdw [ ausy mnu`K dy gwey hoey) gux (kIqI hoeI) pUjw, igAwn qy (joVI hoeI) suriq Awidk dI swrI imhnq (sPl huMdI hY) ijs auqy idAwl ho ky ikrpw kr ky gurU imldw hY [4[
ausy dI hI kIqI hoeI is&iq-swlwh (prvwn hY) ausy ny hI pRBU nwl jwx-pCwx pweI hY (ijs ƒ gurU imilAw hY qy) ijs dI Ardws swry suK dyx vwlw prmwqmw mMn lYNdw hY [1[rhwau dUjw[36[105[
source: PAGE 187 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).


Guru Shabad:
*gauVI mÚ 5 ]*
*kvn rUpu qyrw AwrwDau ]*
*kvn jog kwieAw ly swDau ]1]*
*kvn gunu jo quJu lY gwvau ]*
*kvn bol pwrbRhm rIJwvau ]1] rhwau ]*
*kvn su pUjw qyrI krau ]*
*kvn su ibiD ijqu Bvjl qrau ]2]*
*kvn qpu ijqu qpIAw hoie ]*
*kvnu su nwmu haumY mlu Koie ]3]*
*gux pUjw igAwn iDAwn nwnk sgl Gwl ]*
*ijsu kir ikrpw siqguru imlY dieAwl ]4]*
*iqs hI gunu iqn hI pRBu jwqw ]*
*ijs kI mwin lyie suKdwqw ]1] rhwau dUjw ]36]105]*


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## spnadmin

There is only One Holy Saint. What should we do? Admit that we are filled with anger and desire. Understand that when we meet with Him, it was destined. Bow before Him and become meek. How do we bow before a formless being? We absorb our minds with His Name and we ask Him to save us. ​*
ਕਾਮਿ ਕਰੋਧਿ ਨਗਰੁ ਬਹੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧੂ ਖੰਡਲ ਖੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥ 
 kaam karodhh nagar bahu bhariaa mil saadhhoo khanddal khanddaa hae ||
The body-village is filled to overflowing with anger and sexual desire; these were broken into bits when I met with the Holy Saint.


 ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਤ ਲਿਖੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਮਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਲਿਵ ਮੰਡਲ ਮੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ 
 poorab likhath likhae gur paaeiaa man har liv manddal manddaa hae ||1||
By pre-ordained destiny, I have met with the Guru. I have entered into the realm of the Lord's Love. ||1||


ਕਰਿ ਸਾਧੂ ਅੰਜੁਲੀ ਪੁਨੁ ਵਡਾ ਹੇ ॥ 
 kar saadhhoo anjulee pun vaddaa hae ||
Greet the Holy Saint with your palms pressed together; this is an act of great merit.


ਕਰਿ ਡੰਡਉਤ ਪੁਨੁ ਵਡਾ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
 kar ddanddouth pun vaddaa hae ||1|| rehaao ||
Bow down before Him; this is a virtuous action indeed. ||1||Pause||


ਸਾਕਤ ਹਰਿ ਰਸ ਸਾਦੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਕੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥ 
 saakath har ras saadh n jaaniaa thin anthar houmai kanddaa hae ||
The wicked shaaktas, the faithless cynics, do not know the Taste of the Lord's Sublime Essence. The thorn of egotism is embedded deep within them.


 ਜਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਚਲਹਿ ਚੁਭੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਜਮਕਾਲੁ ਸਹਹਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਡੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥੨॥ 
jio jio chalehi chubhai dhukh paavehi jamakaal sehehi sir ddanddaa hae ||2||
The more they walk away, the deeper it pierces them, and the more they suffer in pain, until finally, the Messenger of Death smashes his club against their heads. ||2||


 ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਣੇ ਦੁਖੁ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਭਵ ਖੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥ 
 har jan har har naam samaanae dhukh janam maran bhav khanddaa hae ||
The humble servants of the Lord are absorbed in the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. The pain of birth and the fear of death are eradicated.


 ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਬਹੁ ਸੋਭ ਖੰਡ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥੩॥ 
 abinaasee purakh paaeiaa paramaesar bahu sobh khandd brehamanddaa hae ||3||
They have found the Imperishable Supreme Being, the Transcendent Lord God, and they receive great honor throughout all the worlds and realms. ||3||


 ਹਮ ਗਰੀਬ ਮਸਕੀਨ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੇਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਖੁ ਰਾਖੁ ਵਡ ਵਡਾ ਹੇ ॥ 
 ham gareeb masakeen prabh thaerae har raakh raakh vadd vaddaa hae ||
I am poor and meek, God, but I belong to You! Save me-please save me, O 


ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰੁ ਟੇਕ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੇ ਹੀ ਸੁਖੁ ਮੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥੪॥੪॥ 
 jan naanak naam adhhaar ttaek hai har naamae hee sukh manddaa hae ||4||4||
Servant Nanak takes the Sustenance and Support of the Naam. In the Name of the Lord, he enjoys celestial peace. ||4||4||

*Guru Ram Das
Ang 13​


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## Sardara123

Guru Ji explains this again and again that one can't be released from this cycle of birth and death without the Guru. Everything happens with the Blessings of Guru, God, Waheguru, Our Lord.

English Translation(source:SikhiToTheMax):
Siree Raag, Fifth Mehl, Seventh House:
Relying on Your Mercy, Dear Lord, I have indulged in sensual pleasures.
Like a foolish child, I have made mistakes. O Lord, You are my Father and Mother. ||1||
It is easy to speak and talk,
but it is difficult to accept Your Will. ||1||Pause||
I stand tall; You are my Strength. I know that You are mine.
Inside of all, and outside of all, You are our Self-sufficient Father. ||2||
O Father, I do not know-how can I know Your Way?
He frees us from bondage, O Saints, and saves us from possessiveness. ||3||
Becoming Merciful, my Lord and Master has ended my comings and goings in reincarnation.
Meeting with the Guru, Nanak has recognized the Supreme Lord God. ||4||27||97||
source: SikhiToTheMax

Punjabi Translation(source: GuruGranthDarpan):
ArQ:- hy pRBU! qyrw Bwxw mMnxw (qyrI mrzI ivc qurnw) AOKw hY, (pr ieh) AwKxw AKvwxw sOKw hY (ik AsIN qyrw Bwxw mMndy hW) [1[rhwau[
hy ipAwry (pRBU-ipqw)! qyry ipAwr dy Brosy qy mYN lwfW ivc hI idn guzwr id`qy hn [ (mYƒ XkIn hY ik) qUM swfw mW ipau hYN, qy b`cy Bu`lW qy aukweIAW kirAw hI krdy hn [1[
hy myry by-muQwj ipqw (-pRBU)! mYN qyrw (hI) mwx krdw hW (mYƒ ieh &^r hY ik qUM myry isr qy hYN), mYN qyrw (hI) Awsrw r`Kdw hW [ mYN jwxdw hW ik qUM myrw Awpxw hYN [ qUM sB jIvW dy AMdr v`sdw hYN, qy sBnW qoN bwhr BI hYN (inrlyp BI hYN) [
hy ipqw-pRBU! mYƒ pqw nhIN ik qYƒ pRsMn krn dw kyhVw qrIkw hY [ hy sMq jno! ipqw-pRBU mYƒ mwieAw dy bMDnW qoN Awzwd krn vwlw hY [ auh mYƒ Awpxw jwxdw hY [3[
hy nwnk! pwlxhwr pRBU jI ijs mnu`K auqy dieAwvwn huMdy hn, aus dw jnm mrn dw gyV mu`k jWdw hY [ gurU ƒ iml ky hI auh mnu`K aus byAMq prmwqmw nwl fUMGI sWJ pw lYNdw hY [4[27[97[
source: http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0051.html


Guru Shabad:
isrIrwgu mhlw 5 Gru 7 ]
qyrY BrosY ipAwry mY lwf lfwieAw ]
BUlih cUkih bwirk qUM hir ipqw mwieAw ]1]
suhylw khnu khwvnu ]
qyrw ibKmu Bwvnu ]1] rhwau ]
hau mwxu qwxu krau qyrw hau jwnau Awpw ]
sB hI miD sBih qy bwhir bymuhqwj bwpw ]2]
ipqw hau jwnau nwhI qyrI kvn jugqw ]
bMDn mukqu sMqhu myrI rwKY mmqw ]3]
Bey ikrpwl Twkur rihE Awvx jwxw ]
gur imil nwnk pwrbRhmu pCwxw ]4]27]97]


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## Nirmaljot Baidwan

@sardara123

You have laid a lot of stress on READING gurbani, can you please tell me what is gurbani??? 
The title of your thread is "Need of a true guru". This verse clearly tells me that YES THERE IS A NEED OF A TRUE GURU. But you have forgotten to mention who is a true guru??? How do i know that someone has attuned with shabad??? What is shabad??? 


I'd love to understand what you have read so far and where have you reached.:interestedmunda:
Reply As soon as possible.
regards


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## spnadmin

NIrmaljot Baidwan ji

Two thoughts. Sardara123 has not posted in several years now, and most likely will not know about your question. 

Knowing Sardaraiji a little better than most because I have interacted on the forum, my suspicion is that you would not disagree at all if you had more context for the post you are questioning. Sardaraji had a Tat Gurmat point of view.

I am virtually certain that for Sardara "true guru" applies to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. And 'gurbani" is the banee, word, shabad of the Satguru, as understood through Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Sardara's style was always to be brief. The stress on reading primarily because that is an important way that we open ourselves to the Ik Oankar Sat Nam. Kirtan would be another way.

Pardon me for answering on behalf of Sardaraji.


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