# Oral Sex With Partner



## Manjeet Singh1977 (Sep 4, 2008)

Hello to All Friends,

Pls. do not think that  I am just trying to pollute the env. but this is real question to me. 

Is Oral Sex allowed in sikhism.. If I want to do this with my life partner...

Even I am not feeling good to asking this question but since the last year I have been
attracting about this .. 

Same time I also read gurbani and want to continue in gursikhi path ....

is there any confilct if want to O S with my partner .. 

Please give your suggestion .. 

Regards,
Manjeet Singh


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## BhagatSingh (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*



Manjeet Singh1977 said:


> Hello to All Friends,
> 
> Pls. do not think that  I am just trying to pollute the env. but this is real question to me.
> 
> ...


Veer ji the way you ask, it sounds like you take Sikhism to be another one of the religions that drill... do this .. dont do that.. into their followers!
Sikhism is NOT like that! It is NOT a list of Do's and Don'ts! 
I hope that clears up any questions.  If you need me to go into detail then I'll be more then happy to! :yes:

BTW that goes for masturbation, anal sex, this sex, that sex and more sex.

and have fun! :}{}{}:


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## Manjeet Singh1977 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

Thanks Bhagat for your reply,

I have been struggling a lot internally on this decision, May be my conscious is not allowing me for this but mentally getting attracted again and again. 

Let's wait for reply from other brothers ...


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## BhagatSingh (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*



Manjeet Singh1977 said:


> Thanks Bhagat for your reply,
> 
> I have been struggling a lot internally on this decision, May be my conscious is not allowing me for this but mentally getting attracted again and again.
> 
> Let's wait for reply from other brothers ...


hmm ok. One question: why isn't your conscious allowing it?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

Ones "Consciousness" is the Voice of REASON.....Voice of the "Vast"...the Purakh residing within.
This World is nothing but a cloud of smoke...smokescreen..illusion....and so are its "pleasures"...
Just like we go to see a "Stage Play"..a DRAMA...a MOVIE.... we know its NOT REAL...it wont LAST.... it wont stay with US....but we still go !!!...for what ?? the Momentary PLEASURE..the THRILL....
Theres your answer Manjeet Singh Ji... Kaam/Sex is a momentary pleasure...any wchich way you do it.... the end result is the SAME.
Our GURUS are so WISE..they left these mundane questions....by the wayside..where they belong....and wrote the 1429 Pages of SGGS..to discuss the more IMPORTANT THINGS....so look not there if you want YES/NO answers....
Let me give an easy example....... the Telephone DIRECTORY will have imporetnat info such as tel numbers/addresses.....BUT what you want to say on the phone..is up to you...You will NOT find what to tell your girlfriend..or what to tell your boss...etc etc in the Phone Directory !!
Agree with Bhagat Singh Ji...

Gyani Jarnail Singh:happy:


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## spnadmin (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

Gyiani ji

Thanks for a good answer that answers every question we have about lifestyles and Sikhi. Focus on the Guru and so many questions will be cleared up.


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## Manjeet Singh1977 (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

Thanks Gyani Jarnail Singh ji for your reply.

I do agree that SGGS is not for this type of questions and Dos and Don'ts .. This is clear to me ...

But still I did not hear voice that do we concider this Sin .. or not ... ?

Regards,
Manjeet Singh


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## Archived_Member_19 (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

Manjeet ji  Can you define Sin for me?


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## Manjeet Singh1977 (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

Veer -

I am "moormat" .. .simply whatever is *kurahat* and we have been told not to do is a *sin* for me .. for example .. cut the kesh ...kutha ...  and you know all ...

Anything which would take you away from the path of *Guru* is a sin for me ..
this is the reason, we have not been told to go to *Jangals* and go for smadhi .. NO .. we have to be in *Grasth* and need to devote time for *Guru* while serving all our responsibilities ...
Guru encourge us (husbend/wife) to come togather on the way of Gursikhi ..


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## BhagatSingh (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

Gyani Ji you said the world in an illusion. Did you mean that literally? If that's a Sikh viewpiont could you provide quotes that state that? thanks!


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## BhagatSingh (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*



Manjeet Singh1977 said:


> Veer -
> 
> I am "moormat" .. .simply whatever is *kurahat* and we have been told not to do is a *sin* for me .. for example .. cut the kesh ...kutha ...  and you know all ...
> 
> ...


Not cutting kesh and eating kutha is against the Khalsa discipline, not against Sikhi. I would like to know how O S would take you away from the path of Guru. Obsessing with O S will definitely screw with your life in general, the Guru comes much later. 
There is no kurahat in the Khalsa that says you cannot have sex. If sex brings you and your partner together then go for it. Remember sex* is* part of love. As far as I know O S is safer so it might be a good substitue at times.


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## pk70 (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

But still I did not hear voice that do we concider this Sin .. or not ... ?

Regards,
Manjeet Singh  


*Manjeet Singh ji*
*There is an animal with in us, if you unleash it, your actions will be under its control, if you loose it, slowly it will get empowered over time, if you sit on it to be your boss to decide about preferences, it will die its own death over time. Sikhi is for GREHSATHI, for that Sex is mandatory as it is very natural, Gurbani speaks only against lust, if you go on exploring  deep into lust, give me a call when you will get satisfied!!!!  Enjoy life but make sure Guru Bachan guides you and love for the Lord blossoms within you. 
*
*There is only one sin in Sikhi,  it is falling for others than Guru and the Lord. 
*
*Follow the goal, distractions will go away.
*
*These are my humble views in this context.*


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## spnadmin (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

pk70 ji

Wish that people would get this. What you say is the essence of the liberation found in the Guru.


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## Sinister (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

o s? nice abbreviations  :happy:


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## spnadmin (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

Jios,

I appreciate the efforts made to discuss human sexuality in a genuinely serious way. In the context of a sincere desire to understand the place of sexuality in the balance of things moral and spiritual.


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## Sinister (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

ok ok
time to be serious and cut back on shtick (ill try me best...because humour is my safety net)

Sinister's stance on Oil Siphoning (aka OS):

when in doubt turn to the golden rule

do onto others as you would have them do onto you...a philosophy i rarely live by ...because it completely falls apart if you examine cross-gender relationships and discourses on sex
why?
because what the majority of guys want "done onto them" is definately not what the majority of woman want "done onto them" . (I learnt that the hard way )

so ... sin?
the rule does give people a general idea of what 'sin' is or should be.

do onto others as you would have them do onto you...maybe an expression of sexual limitations? 
so,
its only a 'sin' if either you or your mate are uncomfortable with it...and are forcing it upon the other. (i think)

other than that, I dont really know what to say (which is a first)

the posts before mine are also very reasonble and not as amateurish.

cheers


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## Manjeet Singh1977 (Sep 8, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

*Gur Fateh to All Veers !

**>here is an animal with in us, if you unleash it, your actions will be under it*
*>if you go on exploring  deep into lust, give me a call when you get satisfied!!!!
*
*>because what the majority of guys want "done onto them" is definately not what the majority of woman want "done onto them"*
Thanks for providing me valuable feedback on this. I have taken decision to not to involve in all these things .. I really love my wife and she also loves to me .... 

I think I should take her/encourage her*  ( or both of us  )  *towards Gursikhi....

Thanks again for all your replies .

Gur Fateh !
Manjeet Singh
*

Regards,
Manjeet Singh
*


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## BhagatSingh (Sep 8, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

hehe, I get a feeling you think this is against gursikhi. Anyhow, I respect your decision, so no worries.:yes:


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

see..you did hear the inner voice..loud and clear..and you decided to follow it !!
Have you ever heard some dieter say..oh how "sinful"....she means the huge tub of Ice Cream !! or the huge roasted Turkey....or the huge cheesecake..etc etc...eating a huge tub of ice cream is not "sinful"...or is it ?? To the weight watcher..maybe ?? how about to a starving beggar ?? He will eat it all in sheer pleasure..while the weight watcher will squirm guiltily..but will still eat it....why ? because its a "pleasure". In Sikhism/Gurmatt/Gurbani..there is NO SIN. ( Original or pirated !!).no Punn or Paap.....Its ALL "HIM/HIS HUKM". Once we understand that..we begin to "eat to live..and not Live to eat.... we "sleep" to rest..and not rest to sleep...whatever takes us nearer to the GURU..we do more..and what takes us away..we do less and less...trust me....Kaam/Lust takes us AWAY more than it takes us nearer....better to keep kaam under tightest of reins...or it will become a runaway train..with no brakes...leading to the cliffhanger ending.
Love your wife with all the Love and Heart and Mind...and you will be nearer to GURU JI...as well. Thats a good bargain..Sacha Sauda.

Gyani Jarnail Singh


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## spnadmin (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

Gyani ji

Thanks -- because you are saying (I think) - If the Guru enters your heart the 5 passions depart.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

Definitely aad jio...
there is enough place for only ONE - we either give to the 5 or to GURU JI...our choice.
Its also true that the 5 are Mahabali Jodeh...powerful....BUT Guru Jis Grace cna defeat them/control them.
Regards
Gyani JS


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## BhagatSingh (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*



Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> sIts ALL "HIM/HIS HUKM". Once we understand that..we begin to "eat to live..and not Live to eat.... we "sleep" to rest..and not rest to sleep...whatever takes us nearer to the Guru...


"Live to eat" is also His Hukam
"Rest to sleep" is also His Hukam
keeping us away from the Guru is also his Hukam

Saying something is his Hukam doesn't solve anything because in fact, EVERYTHING is his hukam. 



> Love your wife with all the Love and Heart and Mind...and you will be nearer to Guru JI...as well. Thats a good bargain..Sacha Sauda.


So he shouldn't have OS with his wife? or should he?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 14, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

*So he shouldn't have OS with his wife? or should he?*

Follow His HUKM..........its as simple as that jio...

Gyani Js


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## BhagatSingh (Sep 14, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*



Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> *So he shouldn't have OS with his wife? or should he?*
> 
> Follow His HUKM..........its as simple as that jio...
> 
> Gyani Js


So it is a personal choice. If he does it then it was His hukam. If he doesn't then it was still His hukam.:ice:

 Correct me if im wrong.


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## spnadmin (Sep 14, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

Jios,

In my humble opinion, I do not think Gyani ji is suggesting that Waheguru has an _anything goes_ attitude toward the world and life -- so *therefore yes* is His hukam and *therefore no *is His hukam. What Gyani ji may be saying is this. When we fill our hearts and souls with God (can't say it any simpler than this) :idea: then his hukam for any one of us will become clear.

I say this because the topic is not a simple one. It is actually very complicated. One partner may not want oral sex (let's not shy away from the real words) and the other might. One may feel it is unholy and the other may feel that it is a natural thing. Should the one who is unwilling submit because it is His Hukam for the partner who desires this. 

In _some_ (not all) Buddhist traditions women accept any kind of treatment from husbands that comes their way, because mistreatment is also the will of God. They are taught to abase themselves to their husbands because "the will of God." Sikhism does not walk down this path. We have to think a little deeper about what that means -- the will of God. It does not however mean becoming passive and fatalistic. 

Gyani ji, are you not saying -- Look into your own hearts and share what is there with your partner? _One soul in two bodies._  It takes a little work.


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## BhagatSingh (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

So if they both agree and are ready for it without any pressure, does that mean it's party time?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Sep 16, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

dear aad jio..you have taken the words right out of my...keyboard....
Methinks you are getting the hang of understanding Gurbani and His hukm..real fast..congrats are in order...may Guru Ji Bless ever more.
Definitely.."anything goes..party time..etc etc." is Not..... Even if murder and rape is also "his HUKM"...following the Guru trodden path..that wouldnt be for me...He does give us a CHOICE..we can be Saadh or CHOR...the Doctor who brings life into this world or the Murderer who snuffs one out..although BOTH follow his HUKM... we have a choice too. That is where the Paap is condemned BUT not the Paapi...because the paapi can be turned around...with the help of Gurmatt.
Regards
Gyani JS


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## BhagatSingh (Sep 16, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*



Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Definitely.."anything goes..party time..etc etc." is Not..... Even if murder and rape is also "his HUKM"...following the Guru trodden path..that wouldnt be for me...He does give us a CHOICE..we can be Saadh or CHOR...the Doctor who brings life into this world or the Murderer who snuffs one out..although BOTH follow his HUKM... we have a choice too. That is where the Paap is condemned BUT not the Paapi...because the paapi can be turned around...with the help of Gurmatt.
> Regards
> Gyani JS


So is "party time" (I love that term ) paap? Are you directly relating party time to murder/rape? Are you saying party time is for Chors and not for Sadhs? 

(you say its his hukam (and I know that: hukumai under sabh ko bahar hukm na koi) but  you don't answer the question! we know its Hukam so let's go beyond that!)


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## Archived_Member4 (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*



Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> dear aad jio..you have taken the words right out of my...keyboard....
> Methinks you are getting the hang of understanding Gurbani and His hukm..real fast..congrats are in order...may Guru Ji Bless ever more.
> Definitely.."anything goes..party time..etc etc." is Not..... Even if murder and rape is also "his HUKM"...following the Guru trodden path..that wouldnt be for me...He does give us a CHOICE..we can be Saadh or CHOR...the Doctor who brings life into this world or the Murderer who snuffs one out..although BOTH follow his HUKM... we have a choice too. That is where the Paap is condemned BUT not the Paapi...because the paapi can be turned around...with the help of Gurmatt.
> Regards
> Gyani JS


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## explorer (Dec 3, 2008)

*Re: O S with partner*

Veer Manjeet Singh jee,

I would attempt to answer your question within the sikh perspective of what all I have experienced/understood during my life. 

First of all, I am equally attracted to the various kind of pleasures in life. Some pleasures attract me with greater intensty and some with little lesser.

Now coming to your question, whether Oral sex is allowed in sikhism or not, the simple answer would be that the Guru Sahibs had left a very clear answer to this.

1> First under the purpose of human life :-
          a> Why we got this life in the first place?
          b> After providing the answer to the first question, they go on telling us 
               how to achieve the objective of this human life.
          c> And the rest of gurbani explains about the problems we face while trying to
               achieve the objective of our human life.
          d> Then Guru Sahib gives us the principle techniques to overcome these
               problems so that we donot fail in our objective.

The answer to your questions lies in the "Guru ka Bhaana Mann'na"

Bhaana = Bhaa jaanaa 
Mann'na = Mann Laina

Guru nu jo Bhaavnda hai , uss gall nu mann laina, hee sikh da dharam.

We normally take the Bhaana in a negative sense, as if something wrong has happnened, and since we can't do any thing about it, so we should agree to it positively by the act of Bhaana Mann'na.

This is a wrong thought because neither the God nor the Guru do anything wrong, so the bhaana mann'na is obeying the Guru's liking( hukam in other words)

Your dilemma originates from the fact that some state of mind draws you near the feeling that temptation of oral sex and hence the mind deviates. The situation becomes worse when this activity is wrapped in the package of ultimate pleasures.

This is done by those who are man-mukh i.e self-oriented where as the Gurmukhs (the Guru-oriented one's) would simply say that you may get the momentary pleasure from this but you will not achieve the eternal bliss through this.

Since we have never experienced this eternal bliss earlier its difficult for us to buy their argument and the physical pleasure are the one's which we have relished earlier.
So the Gurmukh argument does-not enter our brain easily.

This is the only reason our Guru Sahibaan have suggested that we should try to find the sadh-sangat and join them. Only  the company of the Guru-oriented would drive our thoughts in the right direction.
=====================================================

For a short answer, Gurbani has a message of Sanjam and Santokh and these are limits of do's and don'ts.

The pupose of sex is very clear, its reproduction, and since nobody would done it as responsibility, God attached pleasure to its very nature so that two individuals could be attracted to it.

The effort of human being is understanding this reality and get away with illusionary pleasure.


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## Lucy Ahmed (Dec 3, 2008)

dear manjeet singh,

First of all you should question:

"Is it YOUR TRUE PARTNER or not?"

If "Yes", second:

"What you do in your private room (have it lock) is your own business as long as you do not hurt your partner."

I think it's more SIN to hurt your partner or anyone else.

p/s it's my personal view.

GOD BLESS YOU & PARTNER


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## explorer (Dec 4, 2008)

dear lucky ahmad jee,

Had it been a limited to private business, you suggestion would have been more than welcome.

However, the person is question has sought the answer to his moral dilemma in the light of Gurmat, so be the answer.

Whether things are done in dark or light, being a human, an internal call to morality always confronts every human being. Whether we choose to ignore the same or face it is upto our individual self.

Thanks!!


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## Lucy Ahmed (Oct 28, 2009)

Explorer.................

Opppppssssttt..... Excuse.........me....... I don't want to explore anymore:: here.

I am out of this Topic!!


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## spnadmin (Oct 28, 2009)

The subject is controversial. The discussion so far has not sunk to rudeness and insults. So there is no need for it to sink to that level. No matter how we feel about oral sex, it is possible to discuss the topic within the bounds of respect for other human beings, including sexual partners, and respect for other forum members' sensibilities, and respect for the Gurmat understanding of human sexuality. A post has been deleted for lacking those qualities.Warning to anyone else who is unable to be mature in their participaton.


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## jegi (Oct 30, 2009)

I am really dissappointed to learn that my post has been deleted. I thought this was a forum for mature adults and I can assure you that I am a mature adult.The fact that I have been straight to the point does not mean that I was rude or that I lowered the tone of the discussion. *I have deleted another comment that is overly personal and possibly insulting to the person to whom it was directed. The same idea could have been stated without naming a specific forum member. So sorry, but these are the judgment calls that moderation has to make now and then. Narayanjot Kaur *It is all in his mind and thats why as he says the idea has been attracted to him for such a long time.
I still say the best way forward for him is to try out  for himself first and then at least he will have some idea what his partner will be expecting.!!!! Here in the west where i have lived for over forty years, the idea of oral sex is nothing new or strange amongst our punjabi people, infact I personally know so many couples who enjoy it.!!!
As far as sihki goes, I personally think, If you enjoy doing something,without hurting anyone, than in my book its ok. As far as morality is concerned, its upto the individual concerned. We in Sikhism do not marry our cousins, but the muslims do not bat an eye lid. So to each, his own.
So at the end of the day  What appeared rude to Narayanjot Kaur was a normal response to an abnormal question from me.
Thank you.
By the way I am a Gursikh too.


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## Admin (Oct 30, 2009)

> I thought this was a forum for mature adults


Dear Jegi, 

It is indeed a forum for matured adults but not a forum for explicit mature adult content... I am even surprised that Narayanjot ji did not issue you a stern warning for your immature approach to the topic in hand... maybe being a new member she might have taken a lenient view... 

...but then in your second message you have stated the same thing with much more clarity and maturity. 

Welcome to SPN!! :welcome:

Aman Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Oct 30, 2009)

Sikhi..Gurmatt is NOT PRUDISH..and neither is SPN.
Everything can be said in entirely different ways..as has been proven above..choose the second way...:happysingh:


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## Sikh royalist (Oct 31, 2009)

humans no doubt have the best capability of transforming things of necessity into things and acts of pleasure,enjoyment and luxury.
there are some good examples of this sex and alcohol are the better one alcohol was used in the ancient times by doctors while operating on their patients they use to give their patients some alcohol so that he may not feel that pain which may be caused later it was developed as a war artifact since the soldiers under its effect fought bravely without any other thought and without the fear of death soon it was found on the tables of noble men as an intoxicant to enjoy physically present on earth but mentally on the seventh heaven.
sex similarly was a mean of progeny in simple words in order to continue the human race but soon it was seen as a pleasure giving substance and was modified in our society and soon people could see prostitution in the humans
the third thing which i am myself prey to is the vehicles we made, in old times they were used to transport people from one place to another but soon people like me started to enjoy their ride be it a car or a motorcycle people enjoy long drives myself included.
sex is for progeny else it is nothing more than Kama vasana ,lust which our guru held as a human disease and which we must cure in order to be able to call ourself a sikh.............


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## seeker3k (Oct 31, 2009)

Manjeet Singh Ji,

Sex is between two people. It has nothing to do with others. Looks to me you want the approval from some one higher in the Sikhs so you can feel what you want to do is right or wrong.
 If you and your partner happy in what you do then it is no one’s business. What ever you do is ok unless you are forcing or hurting other. Both parties have the right to enjoy what they feel is right.
Some people think sex is to make baby only not to be enjoyed. Those people will tell you it is wrong to enjoy sex. To make baby one only have to do it one time till one want to make another baby. For that test tube baby may be best and don’t get married.
Get in touch with your self. When you will know your self then you wont have to ask others for the approval. 
seeker


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Aug 14, 2010)

I am impressed that this thread, which could easily have degenerated into muck has been an interesting and informative discussion.

One last comment about jegi's last comment



> By the way I am a Gursikh too.



Calling oneself a Gursikh seems akin to someone who says "Trust me."


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## ugsbay (Aug 14, 2010)

I nearly fell of my chair when i read the title of this thread lol. Like mentioned above its good it has not turned into jargon as some good points and views have been made.


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