# To Take Off Kirpan Or Not. Does It Matter?



## Kellysingh (Feb 27, 2012)

When sikhs must enter courts ect, do they take off their kirpans n leave them in vehicle before entering? or do sikhs just not go?  i am very curious about this topic because there have been varying things that courts see it as a cocealed weapon, which it is not.  but i would like to hear opinions so that i may be better informed dear brothers n sisters.


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## Kanwaljit.Singh (Feb 27, 2012)

The biggest problem is that Sikhs (including myself) have to take off the Kirpan while travelling in international flights!


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## Luckysingh (Feb 27, 2012)

In the U.S. this can vary from state to state and with legal jurisdictions.

Exemptions can be permitted by court, but these have to be applied and submitted beforehand. A lawyer would be your best bet to forward an exemption application.

Some may grant you, some may not.
It is not seen as a concealed weapon to us. However,certain members of the sikh community have evidently done NO favours for the rest of us.

The uproar,fights and kirpan exhibiting events that occur within Gurdwara committee elections and arguments paints a very negative image of us to the rest of society.
If these didn't ever occur, I'm sure some lawyers would have argued and gained a definite allowance for Sikhs to wear kirpan at all times.

So, at the moment there is no definite answer as it can vary according to location and court.
I think it will remain a grey area for some time, due to others actions.

Hope that helps.

Lucky Singh


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 27, 2012)

Luckysingh said:


> In the U.S. this can vary from state to state and with legal jurisdictions.
> 
> Exemptions can be permitted by court, but these have to be applied and submitted beforehand. A lawyer would be your best bet to forward an exemption application.
> 
> ...


I am not suggesting people to not follow SRM to the "T". But we need to recognize realities of the times a bit.

 Some scenarios come to mind,

Say a Machete carrying person sitting next to your child in the Airplane; could claim to be religious
A machine gun carrying comrade sitting opposite to you on a train; could claim to be religious
A six pack (38 revolver) totting person aggressively positioned against your family; could claim to be religious
Lot of the issues relate to trust. We can post statistics of how little Kirpans are used in unproveked situations, etc., but culturally any weapon gives the carrier of such an edge in persona. Some don't think that way but due to possible lack of trust, education, and other aspects many majorities don't think our way.

For me it is 50/50 where you have to realistically think for both sides of the issue yourself and dcide.

I have raised the issue of martial arts in some dialogs. Is the person carrying a six inch kirpan more dangerous or a person with black belt level martial skills without associated mental training? I will not want to go against the black belt.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Luckysingh (Feb 28, 2012)

I agree with the society perception issue.
I gave the above points in a legal perspective along with how sikhs are viewed legally for this issue.

Kellyji, from my personal view, I really feel that you shouldn't worry about this too much.

We live in the west and we have to play by the rules. All the laws are made in complete fairness to the majority.
Protecting the public from gun carrying criminals, paedophiles, careless doctors, racist people in authority, corrupt attorney's .....etc... are ALL objectives that the law regards as utmost. It is paramount that laws are in place to protect us all at all times.

If you focus on the path of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, you will eventually become more spiritual and have more truthful control over your mind, thus these issues will not even bother you. This should be the goal you set yourself. It will come with ease.

Sat kartar
Lucky Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 28, 2012)

The Kirpan may not be a "concealed"...BUT the MIND of the carrier is def CONCEALED ..is it NOT ??? who can walk about with everyone being able to see clearly into HIS MIND and intentions ?? Thats the CRUX of the matter...the Kirpan pers e doenst matter..ist the man carrying it...is he a sant sipahi or a crook ??


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## Awakeand Singh (Feb 28, 2012)

Kellysingh Ji,

Let incisive thought be your kirpan when you're not wearing it - and, even when you are.

Meanwhile, have a very happy birthday!mundahug


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 28, 2012)

Awakened Singh Ji..
EXACTLY.....and most aptly said Ji.
ALL SIKHS must always carry the GYAAN KHARRAGH....KHANDA of Gyaan.... Knowledge..... awareness.... be AWAKENED 24/7 !!! Sadly most sikhs today are actually SLEEPING...they Carry the steel kirpan etc etc..BUT their MINDS are SLEEPING..comatose troops...hence the Kirpan carried by these becomes dangerous...to themselves and their neighbours..THATS why Kirpans often come out in GURDWARAS...street DEMONSTRATIONS...ELECTIONS...etc etc..all places where these kirpans should be sheathed....


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## Kellysingh (Feb 29, 2012)

thanks for the happy birthday.  i do obey laws of the land.  i was just curious on what others thought and i like to hear opinions


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## Awakeand Singh (Feb 29, 2012)

The fact that Jews have been able to live in just about every civilization in every period of history can be attributed to a_ halacha_ (Torah-based law) that states, in Talmudic Aramaic, "Dina d'malchusa - dina"; the law of the kingdom - is the law. The extent to which a nation's laws accommodate those of the Torah determine a what makes a particular country a desirable domicile for Torah-observant Jews. To the best of my knowledge, this concept doesn't exist within the corpus of Sharia law - with the result that many pious Muslims appear to find it difficult, if not impossible, to live within non-Islamic societies where the "law of the land" is something other than Sharia. Perhaps some of our Muslim members will contribute to this conversation ...

Overriding concern for personal and national security is what seems to be motivating societies that that are less than "kirpan friendly" - as opposed to attacks on religion-based tenets. Maybe what's needed is a formal licensing arrangement, as exists for firearms in most countries. This would have the advantage of "vetting" kirpan wearers who take this responsibility seriously enough to cooperate with the local authorities.


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## bond (Jul 16, 2013)

0

I am keeping your replies under the scanner. One has already been deleted. This one I am going to believe is coming from positive intentions. Therefore I won't delete it. 

Please communicate in words. For future reference, in English.


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## Brother Onam (Jul 16, 2013)

Gurfateh!
I work in a airport; I can never wear my kirpan. So I have a small sword pendant around my neck as a symbolic reminder of 5K's.
If the Lord Har is disappointed in me, He has not yet stopped blessing me daily.


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## Kellysingh (Feb 22, 2014)

It has been nice to see all the opinions. when i wrote this , i was very new to sikhi. I personally  dont worry on this.  I have learned it is not a concealed weapon , but when entering courts or schools,  it must remain in your vehicle.  otherwise you can keep it on. It is good to see all the opinions,voices on the topic.  and even the analogies.  now further down line and much better learned, but still A LONG way to go, it is and still is agood learning experience. sikh means disciple or student, and i am definetly living that.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 22, 2014)

A guy in Italy has just been fined Euro 25,000 for not removing his 18 Inch Kirpan when he was admitted to an Emergency Room at an hospital after an accident. He was informed by the docs to remove it - he refused..then the police came and said the same thing..he refused..finally they ended up forcibly removing it to carry out the medical procedure necessary a nd charged him for carrying the 18 inch kirpan. Now he is screaming bloo.dy murder Panth in Danger etc etc..and wants help to pay the huge fine....


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## Harry Haller (Feb 23, 2014)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> A guy in Italy has just been fined Euro 25,000 for not removing his 18 Inch Kirpan when he was admitted to an Emergency Room at an hospital after an accident. He was informed by the docs to remove it - he refused..then the police came and said the same thing..he refused..finally they ended up forcibly removing it to carry out the medical procedure necessary a nd charged him for carrying the 18 inch kirpan. Now he is screaming bloo.dy murder Panth in Danger etc etc..and wants help to pay the huge fine....



of course he refused, after all, his entire Sikhi is possibly in that Kirpan


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