# Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale Ji Ever Get The Respect He Deserved As Sikh Martyr



## drkhalsa (Aug 8, 2005)

Dear Singh ji and Kaur ji 

This topic was in my mind from quite a some time but recently it just surfaced up 

We all know about our recent past history in which Akal Takhat declared Jarnail Singh ji Shaheed , I know there are some people on the forum or out there who think other wise and they have full liberty to do but for a Sikh now the thing could be different now Akal Takhat has declared jarnail singh ji Shaheed (i know there will be some of my brother sikhs who will say no Akal Takhat is not authority blah.. blah... but just a reminder this authority was made by guru sahibaans and any body who has some problem with its functioning then they should come forward and do something to rectify it, just saying it is wrong does not mean anything and not abolishes its authority)

Now the issue is: given the fact Sant Jarnail Singh ji being declared martyr, did he ever get the respect a Sikh martyr deserves (just like bhai dyala ji , baba banda singh bahadar...and many more), and if not then what could be the reason ?One reason i can think of is his shaheedi was kept under cover for long 20 years or so and perhaps it failed to create the impact it should have done... 

Now my second question is: What did Baba Thakur singh ji meant to achieve or achieved by keeping Jarnail Singh ji's shaheedi a secret? Actually this question troubles me a lot so would like to hear from all of you.

Jatinder Singh


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## S|kH (Aug 8, 2005)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

There was too much controversy around his actions for him to be respected by all as a great martyr.

And Bhai Thakur Singh Ji most likely withheld the "secret" because of the controversy, so as not to rift the Sikh community once again...wait till the tide is settled.

Either that, or they thought that if people thought Bhindranwale was still alive, they would actively pursue the Khalistan cause.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 8, 2005)

I concur with SIKH.  The whole idea was to keep the Shahedee and the Khalistan movement on the BACK BURNER and allow it to "die" a natural death. This was in total connivance with  the GOI...who wanted it this way.

While this was happening and the Movement and the Singhs were "waiting" for Sant Ji's "return"... the GOI began the PHASE II..kill the movement from the INSIDE.   Support Badal, jagiro and Cohorts, install puppet Jathedars who would issue totally useless hukmnamas and further divide the Kaum and bring disrepute to the Institutions...and then bring in the RSS in total Force to further ERODE Sikhi and Gurmatt by making more and more Keshadharee Hindus as "Amrtidharee Sikhs"...and continue the onslaught agiasnt the Language, culture, econnomic power of Punjab, steal its waters and electricity, Block any development efforts, keep on more and more DRUGS and infant foeticide etc

And when the time is RIGHT announce that the Sant is actually dead..LONG AGO,...and cause even more RIFTS and factions as is happening now... The IRON is ICE COLD now and striking it will SHATTER it instead of making it into a SWORD.


This is POLITICS...not RELIGION...and "sikh leaders" fell for it just as they did in 1857..1947...and 1984...and beyond !!


ALL OPINIONS strictly MINE.

jarnail Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Sep 3, 2005)

Gurfateh

PS Badal,Late Tohra and most of the present day Jatts who have been doing lots of politics in sgpc are nothing but Kesdhari Hindus.

In Punjab if Sikhism has to survive let idealogy of S Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana,Surjeet Singh Ji missionary of Delhi etc overthrow the fake Akalis.

But if we have to make Guramt strong in rest of teh India also then Idealogy of Dr Jodh Singh has to be encoruaged.

To make Panth flourish in overseas Baba Virsa Singh Ji and Late Yogi Bhajans reaching are neded.

coming back to Sant Ji there are mnay of out own so called Sikhs ,who have misused the name of Sant ji.

Those guys were unworthy to be Taksal set up by Guru.present head Baba Harnam Singh Ji Khalsa is moving so far in right direction as he also has sense of servitude towards the Panth unlike many inturders in Taksal who would better have been in babbers.

In fact hindus from poor and lower strata are recogansing Sant Jis contribution to humanity.


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## gurbilas (Sep 3, 2005)

I lived in Amritsar quite near to the Golden Temple and as a young boy I was highly impressed by Sant ji's words be it preaching 'Rehat Maryada' or to become 'Tayar-bar-Tayar' with weapons. I guess it was not only exciting but also very close to the 'Sakhis' of valour I had heard from our elders and the Sikh youth were moved immensely by Sant ji's logic and militant approach.
In those days before entering the Golden Temple premises there used to be young Sikh boys holding guns requesting all pilgrims politely to take a few bricks upstairs to build bunkers. I did it myself on a few occasions and felt quite proud of it. There were several stories to hear all the time and the venom spurted out by Hindu leaders especially those from BJP alienated me further from the mainstream leading me to believe in separatism.
Then the Blue Star Operation happened. All said and done the Sikh pride was badly hurt and I personally felt ashamed of being helpless as all I could do was wear a 'Kesri' 'Siropa' and have arguements with the security men in the streets several times only just saved from being taken away. All this continued till finally 'terrorists' struck and killed my uncle who spent most of the time in village nearby looking after the agriculture land. I felt so different and it was only then I first realised that the pain of death is the same for everybody. I could identify more with the affected people and this was basically the reason for the end of terror in Punjab and not any Gill or Rebiero or Beant Singh. There was no leadership for the Sikhs. I was like many other capable of following but not good enough to be a leader probably and hence the youth were lost which is partially the reason for the present state of Punjab.
Sant Jarnail Singh Ji was an excellent leader and he could incite the feeling of religious fervour as none else after him could. He had a mass appeal I have seen this as a commoner sitting in the congregation. As for the path chosen by him, today I am not sure whether that was the best thing to do. The aftermath having been the Blue Star. 
Certainly he will be a great figure in the history of the Sikhs but the question I ask today is how true were or are the ghosts of crusades against the Sikhs which were being fought? And even so how right it was to kill people the way they were killed and to gain what? The more we fight these shadows the more they spring at us.
In fact the reality is we are a scared lot. We know more than 50% of our population is 'Patit' as per the Rehatnama and the rest are also nonchalant. But how does it matter? If we only infuse the spirit of humanity in ourselves and incorporate truthful living as shown by Guru Granth Sahib Ji without having a face of Khalsa would that make us less of Sikhs? For sure being intolerant and insensitive to fellow human beings is much bigger a vice. And maybe this attitude will one day restore our pride and we stop talking big about our historical heroes and start following them in action.
And casteism, which the great Guru took out of us, will never leave us whatever we do. Because we have lost the essence of Sikhism. We will always be Jats, Khatris, Tarkhaans etc. It is so painful that on one hand we are taught about universal brotherhood and on the other hand we have limited ourselves to our sirnames! We have definitely failed our Gurus. We are yet to learn to respect each other as human beings.


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## Khalistani (Dec 17, 2005)

*Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji possessed the bravery and courage of a Sikh that belonged to the armies of Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji. People call him a terrorist and an extremist. they call him that compared to today's norm. We forget that we all are required by our faith to stand up and fight back against oppression. We bow in front of our Immortal Guru that was bestowed upon us by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. He fought against oppression and gave us the right to fight oppression...but only few have used that right to its full extent truthfully. One who has expressed that right was Sant Jarnail Singh Ji. Please research about him and read his speeches...please give you're opinion...Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## hps62 (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Yes true .

The only question to be answered is if it is  correct  to target innocent people who play subtle  games as challenges against  you. Violence  should  not be used rather subtlity is the answer.You dont need force to address these challenges. you need  smartness and  critical  number  of children to win this battle.

Acually he never understood the  deeper game of  some  forces to create a wedge between  India and sikhs whose first  proud sons  we are.

Now to question as to how  to  keep sikhie  intact and its  value ( as a of harbinger  of change : as discussed by me  in thread " Modern Sikh Soldier new enemies ,battlefields and weapons" ) in its old  form will  require lot of ingenuity from us.

India is our mother and we son sikhs shall see to it that our mother  is proud of us . India  shall always live to glory which our  forefathers wanted  it  to be and  we shall be around  to bask in that  glory.

WGKWGF
BSNSSA

Dr HP Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 18, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Gurfateh

Das would like to say that as per Gurmat we have whole earth is mother.But as manifestation of Akal.So Mother,Father,earth all is Akal.

Next coming to Sant ji Das can say that neither him nor Baba Harnam Singh Ji are anti Hindu(here das means Hindu and Indian as same).


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## plamba (Dec 22, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Those who are interested in an alternate viewpoint may wish to check out the following essay.
Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale: Five Myths
http://sikhtimes.com/bios_060604a.html
Puneet Singh Lamba
Boston, MA
http://sikhtimes.com
(339) 221-1561


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## drkhalsa (Dec 22, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Dear Fellow Seekers


Just mention my experience 


Bith the view point As given by Khalsitani brother and Plamba ji ( I have read that a long time ago)  are just extreme type written with the intention fixed before writng ( I mean Biased) them so are reaaly of little help to know what kind of Personaliy Baba Jarnail Singh  Bhindranwale was .


Jatinder Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 23, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Gurfateh

there were some myths psread by Aray Samajis about Sant Ji,
1. He was son of a Muslims who left in partiton as Sikh can not be Anti-hindu(Sant Ji any way were not Anti hindu either).
2. There are good lots of harlots been kept in Complex.(this shows the prevetrt minded ness of Arya Samajis)
3.Sant ji are going to declare himself as Guru ie Elventh Guru,this was idotic as Sant Ji fought only to counter  Nirnakris,fake one off cource attempt o make a lving Guru.

List is endless.And Sikhs now siding with Arya Samajis seems not OK.

But one thing Das can say that there are many so called Sikhs who were all opposing Sant Ji till he was visible but later on they tried to misuse his name for sperading hoaxes and fairy tales.

So concers of Plamba brothers can not be attributed To Sant Ji but those who misused and are isusing Sant Ji's Name.


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## mbw (Dec 23, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

I understood that a true sikh should not fear anyone nor cause fear in anyone. 
Bhindranwale therefore does not fit that definition of a true sikh as he terrorised minority communities and individuals who did not agree with his narrow and restricted viewpoints on certain things.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 24, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Gurfateh

Das agree to MBW jI,

but in case of Sant Ji,As we has not shrwed politician he did not took care to sto disinformaton camgaign run against him by his bashers.

They were from Anti Hindu Arya Samaji akal hind Samachar gruo or Punjab Kesari(they showed thier true colours during Gujrat unrest by giving anti hindu views).who did false prooganda for him.

But more wrong doers wre those Sikhs who misused his name to bash non Sikhs and well as Sikhs from other idealogy and still are doing.Same peole even fought with Sant Ji men at very occaisions.

We could even say that very same people who lead to uprooting of his men from Complex later made him hero.Hyper wrong politics and bringing a spritual person into such pity politics.Both are wrong.

Das wants to tell that there were may Hindus from upper castes also who joined Sant Ji but after getting converted to Sikhism so were undistingushable from guys from Sikh Family.The Sants as such do not fid any diffreance between Hindu or Sikh or say Muslim and all are ready to join.


			
				mbw said:
			
		

> I understood that a true sikh should not fear anyone nor cause fear in anyone.
> Bhindranwale therefore does not fit that definition of a true sikh as he terrorised minority communities and individuals who did not agree with his narrow and restricted viewpoints on certain things.


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## Khalistani (Dec 25, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

i still dont understand why people think that Sant Ji was someone who would try to bestow fear into a person. I have read many books relating to Sant Jarnail Singh Ji. We are talking about a modest man whose actions were thought in the light of his religion. He loved his religion. no sorry, saying that he only loved his religion would not do him justice. There are no words to describe the amount of love care compassion and respect that he showed for his religion. we are talking about a man who cried when a gurbani gutka fell at his feet in the middle of  the night and thought that he was to blame when it had fallen of a shelf. we are talking about a man who did a full akand paath as a way of forgiveness for a gutka falling to his feet. we are talking about a man who instead of killing my grandfather, who was a police officer (i dont remember the rank), when he was undercover, started joking around with him and talked to him. Who opposed ANY kind of sacrilege to our faith. He acted as a True 17th century Sikh soldier in the guru's army. Those kind of personalities are an endangered species in our modern world. we have lost site of what he was doing, which was very simple, he was defending our faith. we have made things too complicated by adding in the politics. many have become too cunning and think that there is more to his story. i dont understand. Why u cant accept the fact that he was a simple man who was fulfilling his religious duties?


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## Khalistani (Dec 25, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

by the way. he did the full akand paath by himself


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## Khalistani (Dec 25, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

and to MBW, when did he terrorize minority communities and individuals who "did not agree with his narrow and restricted viewpoints on certain things"? show me some proof of those allegations


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## drkhalsa (Dec 26, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*



> i still dont understand why people think that Sant Ji was someone who would try to bestow fear into a person. I have read many books relating to Sant Jarnail Singh Ji. We are talking about a modest man whose actions were thought in the light of his religion. He loved his religion. no sorry, saying that he only loved his religion would not do him justice. There are no words to describe the amount of love care compassion and respect that he showed for his religion. we are talking about a man who cried when a gurbani gutka fell at his feet in the middle of the night and thought that he was to blame when it had fallen of a shelf. we are talking about a man who did a full akand paath as a way of forgiveness for a gutka falling to his feet. we are talking about a man who instead of killing my grandfather, who was a police officer (i dont remember the rank), when he was undercover, started joking around with him and talked to him. Who opposed ANY kind of sacrilege to our faith. He acted as a True 17th century Sikh soldier in the guru's army. Those kind of personalities are an endangered species in our modern world. we have lost site of what he was doing, which was very simple, he was defending our faith. we have made things too complicated by adding in the politics. many have become too cunning and think that there is more to his story. i dont understand. Why u cant accept the fact that he was a simple man who was fulfilling his religious duties?


 
Dear Khalsa Ji


I agree with you fully and I also feel the same about Sant ji

Why people think in this way is due to saome people at the time of santji and also a this time used sant ji name to do what they like and taking revenge from various other forces
so everybody thinks that Sant ji was responsible for such acts 

And some people just write about Sant ji with such mind that they jsut pick and choose events from the history and will enlist every thing bad attached to santji name as if there was nothing postive in his personalities and this this is utter foolishnes.

Alos I have seen many such brothers of ours who just dont bother to follow even basics of Sikhi but will be frontline when it comes to commenting on personalities like Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale

And this is not a new thing let alone sant ji there have some people who even commented on actions of our Tenth Guru JI without understanding anthything Here I am talking about Mahatma Gandhi who was revered mahatma by millions .



Jatinder Singh
Jatinder Singh


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## mbw (Dec 26, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

After reading the thread here and the links posted to Wikipedia, etc., I started to wonder if maybe I had been duped by my sources, my memory and by the media at the time, into an innaccurate and unfair 'picture' of Bhindranwalee. So I did some research.

My father, as a miltary man himself, was impressed with the ability Bhindranwalee had to lead men and inspire them for his cause. 

But I now think it would be a self-denial to ignore that there WAS another side to the man.  

We are all imperfect beings with both bad and good qualities. One who has only good qualities prevailing in him deserves the epithet 'Sant'. 

After reacquainting myself again with the details, I myself don't see how Bhindranwalee deserves this title. 

To present him as a 'hero' of sikhism imho castes a bad light on the teachings of the gurus. 
Sorry if that offends people, but I ask you who disagree to consider without bias the following information.

 No doubt he was a charismatic and inspiring leader. He DID have many noble qualities, sure. 

 That he loved his own interpretation of "his religion" and was tireless in its promulgation is not in any doubt.

 But where were the saintly qualities of tolerance and comapassion and brotherly love for those who did not share his 'interpretation'? If you didn't agree you were put on a 'hitlist'.

Maybe its because many people are too young to know first-hand what was happening in the Punjab in the early eighties, or maybe its because many ex-patriate sikhs in UK Candada, etc., were too far from events to get a correct picture of events. 

I was in Punjab in '83 and '84 and stayed in Jullundur, Amritsar and Kapurthala. The general perception at that time in those areas was very much of FEAR among minority groups such as, Nirankaris, Radha Swamis and Hindus. Even many in the Sikh farming community were in a state of fear. 

The creation of this prevailing sense of 'fear' was understood at the time to be a deliberate policy intended to drive out all but those regarded as 'pure' sikhs from the Punjab in pursuit of a seperate sovereign sikh state.

Many people who publically criticised Bhindranwalee were murdered. This was a time when even the Punjabi police were in fear of Bhindranwalee and his gangs. Every day, you could read in the newspapers about five to thirteen people being murdered . And that is no exageration. Every day!

That is NOT to lay blame for all those killings at Bhindranwalee's feet. Just to remind people of the situation at that time in particular as regards  what Bhindranwalee did regarding this climate of fear.
i.e. regarding:
"a true sikh should not fear anyone nor cause fear in anyone."

Sant Harchand Singh had become so scared of Bhindranwalee he did not meet him for six months in 1984 and enlisted the support of the Babbar Khalsa to protect him from attack.

When Bhindranwalee was at his most influential, not even the judiciary or police dared to cross him and were afraid of him. (Some may say with some justification that this was a good thing in certain cases). If they did cross him, he needed only to send word through a telephone message or by messenger and within 24 hours they would be punished or murdered.

How else was other than a fear of reprisals was he able to smuggle all that heavy armament into the Golden Temple complex, (Machine guns, mines, Sten guns, Anti-tank weaponery, grenades, etc.) And this at a time when the government was trying to secure his arrest?

It was then regarded as a well-known fact that many killings were directed by Bhindranwalee personally. Also I am not aware of him denying this. On the contrary he used the fear engandered by this belief to further his own ends and to gain control in the deteriorating situation with regard to the polictical stalemate between Akali Dal leadership, Congress, etc. This he did very succesfully.

To imagine he was just a religious man who was innocent of ordering/encouraging murder and also innocent of terrorising those he regarded as obstacles in his cause, for me is the exact oppsosite of the facts.

All the killer gangs of that time such as 'Dal Khalsa', 'Bhindranwalee Tigers', 'Dashmesh Regiment', Khalsitan Commandos', 'A.I.S.S.F.', 'National Council of Khalistan', etc. all declared allegiance to him. 
Whole families of people who criticised these gangs were being wiped out, sikh or non-sikh. 

We must ask what did he do to stop such actions? What quotes of his are there denouncing this behaviour? I am aware of none. Can anybody correct me in this?

As regards him supporting the idea of 'Khalistan' or not... Here are some quotes from Bhindranwalee that he made to the press at that time:

"The sikhs are a seperate nation. They must have a special status in the union like Jammu & Kashmir".
The Week, March 27 -April 2, 1984).

"I ask them - [the British Sikhs] - to join the fight for our independence as a seperate nation."
(Daily Mail, April 12, 1984)

"A sikh without arms is naked, a lamb led to the slaughter. Buy motor cycles, guns and repay the traitors in in the same coin." 
 (Int. Herald Tribune, April 24, 1984)

In a recorded speech  to a select gathering in the Golden Temple complex he said: 
"It comes to 35, not even 100. Divide fifty-five crores, then each sikh gets only 35 hindus, and not even 36th. How do you say you are weak?"

What is that if not a reference to how many hindus need to be killed by each sikh in a war for independence?

There is no doubt that the police ALSO were performing their own terrorist activities and unjust actions against suspected 'Khalistani' terrorists/supporters. That this included innocent sikhs is without doubt. For that reason I believe Bhindranwalee was regarded by many in the sikh communityas a protector and brave fighter for oppressed sikhs against such injustice.

In that regard, the 'hitlists' that Bhindranwalee circulated, have been described by supporters as only for those policemen who killed or tortured Bhindranwalee's men.

But also all sikhs who operated as 'sikh gurus' were on his lists, the sikh historian and critic of Bhindranwalee Dr. Gopal Singh was on his hitlists, etc., etc.

 The lists go on and on.

So to say it was only a campaign of intimidation against corrupt police is only half the story:
S.Harbans Singh Manchandra (Pres. of Gurdwara Parbandhak Committe, Delhi) murdered March 28th, 1984;

Dr. V.N. Tiwari (Prof. of Punjab Uni) killed Chandigarh, 3rd April 1984;

85 yr old Giani Partap Singh, staunch critic of Bhindranwalee murdered in Amritsar, May 10th, 1984;

etc.,  etc.

The question occurs how much can accountability for these many, many murders be laid at Bhindranwalee's door? No doubt many were done without his direct order. Old scores were also settled by these gangs in ways that had nothing to do with Bhindranwalee. 

But he must surely be held accountable by any fair-minded, unbiased person for his role in supporting and promoting the climate of fear and religious intolerance prevalent at that time.

Bhindranwalee first was wanted in the connection of the murder of Lala Jagat Narain and warrants were issued as as early as September 1980.

The murderer of the Nirankari guru on 24th Aril 1980 was by Ranjit Singh. Someone who had for a time worked in Bhindranwalee's household and had been a close confidant of Bhindranwalee.

Did Bhindranwalee ever deny involvemnt in these murders or condemn these acts? 
No!

Regarding the murders of eminent Hindus like Jagat Narain, and of the Nirankari Baba Gurcharan Singh, Bhindranwalee said: 
"whosoever has performed these great feats deserves to be honoured at the Akal Takht. If they come to me, I'll weigh them in gold".
This quote of his has been repeated many times but can be found in 'India Today', April 30th 1983).

 I personally feel that it is a sad state of affairs when a person such as this is revered as a Sant and as a Martyr and ispresented as a lofty 'example' of Sikhi to sikh youth.

Apologies fo any offence caused.

Apologies also for  possible misunderstandings on my part, or innacurate information in this post. Corrections of such will be gratefully welcomed by me if presented  constructively and with references and reasoned argument.

Best wishes

MBW


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 27, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Gurfateh

Das here wants to support you thsat Father of das too was in Amry and had great admirtion over the commitedness of men of Sant Ji.

Then as you are talking about Manjit Singh Ji.

Das would like to tell you that there was another group of Militants which was around harchand longowal and was all bent to kill Sant Ji and Hindus also.

many statemetns made after the name of Sant Ji were due to that group.

That gruop was near Langer hall and it took 5 hours to Indian army to dislodge this gruop which had Pakistani support.

while gruop of Sant Ji composed of many Ex Indian Army personal.

If you sse the historic prifile of Damdai Taksal and many men in his force you will find them free of biogatry.

If you want das can give detail of rival gruop of Sant Ji,who later on made him thier Hero while till he was alive they did all wrong they could do in his name and for him.This may means false interviews also.

Das does not want to hurt the sentiment of a particualr gruop of Sikh Brothers so he is not giving the name of that gruop.


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## mbw (Dec 27, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*



			
				vijaydeep Singh said:
			
		

> Gurfateh
> 
> "...many statements made after the name of Sant Ji were due to that group...."
> 
> The quotes I provided were from Jarnail Singh himself.


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## drkhalsa (Dec 27, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Dear Mbw

I dont know what is your intent or how much inquistive you are regarding the isuue of Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale 

This is kind of mentally painful issue for me personaly And I avioid disscusing it and consider it just a waste of time 

As you said you have lived in Punjab in that time 83 ,84

The same is true for me as well I was born in Amritsar and has lived there all my life and have very well first person view point of situation and Jarnail Singh ji my father like many other sikhs in amritsar used to attend the speeches at various places amritsar Manji sahib , samundari hall , majhitha and it is totally different from the view projected about him by press of the nation , even akalis who become anti to him and also most important the faction of singhs around Jarnail singh who projected the wrong pictire of him

You said he is not worth calling Sant I would not say whether you are wrong or right and anyway due to recent misuse of this word I and many other senior member on this forum have decided not to use for any body beside Our Guru sahiban . But the thing I want to tell you is about the spirtual status of the Jarnail Singh he was the head of the taksal and was more involved in the work of taksal and there wold have been enough reson for him to get involved in the petty politics of that time 

I have listened to Baba Jarnail Singh speeches many times at the time i used to search for answer just like you so i know them quite well



> The sikhs are a seperate nation. They must have a special status in the union like Jammu & Kashmir".
> The Week, March 27 -April 2, 1984).
> 
> "I ask them - [the British Sikhs] - to join the fight for our independence as a seperate nation."
> ...


 
Jarnail singh openly asked for fulfillment of Anandpur Matta which was decided by Akalis in 1973 and asked he government of india for what that was prmised to Sikhs at time of partition and as a thank you gift to sikhs for the out of proportion contribution in Freedom struggle and also not demanding different state at the time of Partition

Not to the surprise just opposite to what was promosed Indian government was not even in a mood to make punjab a province , and it was one of the last province to be decleared by the commisioned assigned for this purpose at that time in india 

And yet again many sikhs has go for agitation and jails to get punjab approved as provinve and was kind of blow to sikhs in punjab and also made them aware of cebtral government attitude about the sikhs 

Now anandpur matta 1973 asked for special autonomous powers for state and as you mentioned special status for punjab like Jammu
And there was nothing wrong in asking for that but offcourse this gave shivers to the government of that time 

The anandpur matta asked for the autonomy to provincial government 

Baba Jarnail Singh was convinced at the time that indian government is not not fare when dealing with sikhs and fear their prosperity and rise of pwer as always have been part of Sikh tradition so spoke against all these things openly and asked for justice 

As you mnetioned that he monorties feared him , first of all it is difficult to decide who was minority sikh were 52 % of the population and included in then were Radaswami , Nirakari and other anti sikh faction which even make sikh to be minoruty in punjab 

He wa sgainst nirankari fir very good reasons and if you dont know then you need to do some research there as well . just to mention

they as backed by anti sikh forces which could have included ruling indian goverment put an open darbar in amritsar where they openly called Guru Nanak a Beggar ,Guru Gobind a Awara / Hunter /Shikari and mocked panj pyara with making sat sitare by himself and even he sat down on diwan with his feet resting on Guru Granth sahib deliberately 
well It might not be a big issue for scholars but was BIG isuue for the people like Jarnail Singh who has Dedicated their whole life as gurmat cause being head of damdami taksal 
on top of that when singhs went to agitation on the spot where every thing was going on then they were fired upon by the nirankaris and 13 people were dead on the spot and our own responsible Indian government as usuall did hardly anything 




> In a recorded speech to a select gathering in the Golden Temple complex he said:
> "It comes to 35, not even 100. Divide fifty-five crores, then each sikh gets only 35 hindus, and not even 36th. How do you say you are weak?"


 
if you have heard this speec yourself and also you were researching the isuue unbiased mindset hen I am really astonished that you just noted this line fo his and nothing ellse around this topic only 

this part of statement he gave twice 

once in samundari hall 
second time in Manji sahib

when he gave this statement at Manji sahib this statemen t just took him 10 seconds to say while he exlaines for next 20 minutes why he said so and you really happen to miss that nay way i will tell you points he mentioned 

He said very clearly that he is not anti hindu in any sense and gave example s fo various hindus who routinely come to him for his help , also to mention one ramayan being burnt in kapurthala and hindu asked for help of him and helped many families of hindu with money any possible thing he could have done 

he mentiome that he gave his statement after the statement of Prime minister fo india Indra gandhi ( which I have heard myself ) saying that what sikh are doing punjab they have no care and thought what might happen to sikhs living in other states of india and they should think about them reacting to this statement Jarnail singh said that if this the challenge then sikhs are brave enough as history is witness and if situation arrives every sikh has 35 hindus to tackle and not a big deal 

he also mentioned about no case evn after two years since the saropp of Guru Granth Sahib was burnt in Punjab 

He also mentioned no inquiry in cases of sikh youth diapearances in punjab on large scale and very prompt response dof goverment in a case of one hindu youth killed in Patiala( punjab) who was mistakenly killed by police and Homeminister and even Indragandhi visited the family personally and were given compensation .

there was mention of harbans lal khanaa in the same diwan who has said this beantiful slogan Ikki Dukki Rehan NI deni Sir te Pagri rehan Nahi deni Kach KARA Kirpan , ehan nu bhejo pakistan 

in the same diwan there was mnetion of speeches given Very able indian leaders like Jwahar lal nehru . patel , morargi desae , Tilak about their respectful views about sikhs as lawless {censored}s , if need to wipe 2 crore of sikhs from india for national integrity then it will be done , darshni deori golden doors should be rmoved and sent to temple ( jagannath temple ) and many many others which i dont even care mention

Dear MBW I just want o mention that I have no Anti Hindu feeling and quite confident that i love india more than an average indian do  and consider hindus in brother hood of sikhs and Sabat da balaa spirit and so was Baba Jarnail singh abd conditions of the time and various forces made such circumstances and then reprted them in such a way that painted anti hindu pictite of baba jarnail Singh who was to straght forward speak every thing on the face of people and had he benn political minded he would have never died as political minds of the time survived till date and for any body it is not hard to say that politician surrenders , compromise , alter their demands and motives but never ever die so is true about sikh politicians they are well and alive and they did the same what I just mentioned 

and like a take home message I am not here convice you that Jarnail Singh was sant or not but for sure he was great man in my prospective and much much nore spirtual being then myself and my reaseach has been unable to find in bad light even though such reaseraches are never complete whether its your or mine 

And fully agree with Vijaydeep that it is not wise to highlight such aspects of various factions fo sikhs whether in past and present and we all should look forward to move ahead together for brighter future of panth 

Jatinder Singh


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## vktarneja (Dec 27, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*



			
				Khalistani said:
			
		

> Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji possessed the bravery and courage of a Sikh that belonged to the armies of Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji. People call him a terrorist and an extremist. they call him that compared to today's norm. We forget that we all are required by our faith to stand up and fight back against oppression. We bow in front of our Immortal Guru that was bestowed upon us by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. He fought against oppression and gave us the right to fight oppression...but only few have used that right to its full extent truthfully. One who has expressed that right was Sant Jarnail Singh Ji. Please research about him and read his speeches...please give you're opinion...Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


It is a very strange message. It does not go with what the Gurus preached. There was no opression whatsoever even though it was assumed one. Politics and religion can't be mixed together. One should pray for and promote universal brotherhood by following and living the teachings of Granth Sahib. SSA Ji, VK


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## mbw (Dec 28, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Dear Jatinder
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate you taking the time.
Sorry to hear that you find it mentally painful. Were you and/or your family touched by those times personally in some way?

I will continue to do some more research. At present on internet I only seem to easily find sikh sites which appear to me to rather paint only a rosy picture and partial picture. But I am reading them anyway 

You said you were wondering
"...what is your intent?"
Good question.
My intent is NOT to stir up controversy, though regrettably that seems inevitable where stong views are held for andf against Jarnail Singh. It is to ask anyone reading this thread to question and possibly correct what I see as a misleading and dangerous presentation of a 'role-model' to future sikhs.

We each of us are responsible for the purity of transmission of that which we learned and which we profess to hold dear and to follow.
E.g. that which I regard as the 'core' of Sikhi is the 'teachings' and 'examples' of the Gurus. 
I am trying to say that we are ALL responsible for how that is preserved and that it is passed on to the following generations as accurately as possible.

What I am talking about as the 'core' of Sikhi are things like:
1. When Guru Amar Das after being kicked off the dais at Goindwal by Datu apologising to Datu saying "I am old. My bones are hard. You may have been hurt". 
That for me is an example of pure sikhism in practice.

2. "Did your God ask you to tyrannise over others?
Fie on your regard for God and religion!
Hear me, do not employ your sword 
to murder the innocent, for the God on high 
would for sure punish you. 
Fear God therefore, 
who is the Master of the Earth and the Heaven 
and whose vengeances is terrible, 
who fears no-one and is the protector for ever of the poor.
...Life is but for a brief few moments. 
Change is the law of life. 
Whoever comes here also must quit the scene. 
So whatever one's strength, 
one must not annoy the weak 
or else one destroys one's own roots."

Guru Gobind Singh writing to Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb.

Even then the Guru wrote: "If even now you repent and come to see me...you shall not be harmed. I wish I could speak to you face to face."

Guru Gobind Singh fought to 'defend' his followers and to protect the weak. He didn't wage war to spread his own teachings nor to suppress the teachings of others. 

Guru Tegh Bahadur even died in the cause of protecting the religions of others (not his own) from persecution and discrimination/oppression.

That for me is real 'religion' in action. 

How is it OK then for anyone who claims to follow the gurus,
to kill their critics and enemies in the name of their religion or for any other justification?

So what if any other group disrespects OUR beliefs? That will be between them and God.
Our responsibility is our OWN conduct and behaviour and it is only for that that WE will be helf accountable. Are WE true to the ideals and example set before us by the Gurus or not?

...He was against Nirankari for very good reasons...
Maybe so. But in what way does that justify attacking them?
Jarnail said before an agitated sikh congregation Manji Sahib:
"We will not allow the Nirankari convention to be held here. We shall march to cut them to pieces."
That was recorded in the book 'Amritsar' by  BBC correspondents Satish Jacob and Mark Tully.

You mention the twelve sikhs that were killed in the disturbance initiated by the sikh mob but not the three Nirankaris???

That whole episode for me demonstrates where 'religion' (which I understood was all about 'union' with that Divinity which ALL humanity share and of which we are ALL heirs) is used to DIVIDE and not 'unite'. 

What can be said of a 'religion' practised so that it creates dissension and disagreement and kills brotherly love and mutual respect? I have always understood that the teachings of Guru Nanak and his successors was to eliminate caste and creed distinctions. "Nae ko hindu, nae mussalman". .i.e. we could say today 'no christian, no buddhist, nor jew, nor Dharamdasi, nor Nirankari, nor Nihang, nor Radhaswami, nor AryaSamaji, nor Keshdhari, Nor Sehajdhari, nor Namdhari or whatever!
God created man. Man created religions. Great men like Guru Nanak tried to lead us out of sectarian viewpoints and to awaken us to a sense of 'universal brotherhood'.

Jarnail Singh for all his great qualities of leadership and oratory and, etc., etc. was the antithesis of this.
That is why it disturbs me to see only half the picture of him being presented.
It goes against the basis of sikhi to believe that it is not only OK but laudable to persecute and even execute those who do not share the same beliefs as you, or those who criticise you, as Bhindranwalee did.

 I am really astonished that you just noted this line fo his and nothing else around this topic.
("It comes to 35, not even 100. Divide fifty-five crores, then each sikh gets only 35 hindus, and not even 36th. How do you say you are weak?")
I posted only that line as it demonstrated my point. The twenty minutes on other topics does not in my opinion justify this anti-hindu, incitement-to-violence one even if of only ten seconds duration.

but for sure he was great man in my perspective and much much more spirtual being than myself and my research has been unable to find him in a bad light...
No doubt he loved his religion, ...but so did Aurangzeb. 
No doubt he was a charismatic leader and great orator, but so was Hitler. 
No doubt he was brave and fearless. But so was Babur. etc., etc. 
That is NOT to compare him to those figures or say he was of similar type. Just to show that enumerating a persons 'good' qualities DOES NOT justify or excuse there bad ones. 
We have to admit that if the worst be believed he ordered many murders. If the best be believed then he never publically (to my knowledge) spoke out against the gangs killing in his name and allowed the general public to believe they were done at his behest to enhance his power and inculcate a sense of fear in his detractors and those opposed to his movement.

And fully agree with Vijaydeep that it is not wise to highlight such aspects of various factions fo sikhs whether in past and present and we all should look forward to move ahead together for brighter future of panth.

Agreed also. But maybe the remedy would be that a post lauding Jarnail Singh as as Sant, Shaheed and epitome of Gurus sikhs should be taken down. Then this kind of controversial thread would not occur. :-(

Best wishes

MBW


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Gurfateh

Dear MBW ji,

Our Panth has history that our Tenth Master Burnt alive the Masands for going against the teneasts of Gurmat yet talking about Sikhi ie hypocrcy.

Banda singh Bahdur was defeated as he also wanted to be living Guru but Tat Khalsa helped Mughals to defeat him.

In the case of fake Nirnakaris they at one time used the name refroming Sikh order but at other time kept on hurting the sentiments of Sikhs and all calls for debate were shunned not only they shunned the calls but insted further used the poropganda to blemish Guru Granth Sahib.

initialy peacefull prtests for that lead to further offenses from them and many orthodox(traditionals) Sikhs have to pay the price.

Our Guru clearly tells us to use sword when all other means fail.(JafferNammah).

In fact there were mnay Hindus who oppse Radhswamis or Nirnkairs who are personality based cults and divide hindus while Guru Panth can unite them.

Das request you to visit Chowk Mehta for more details about policy towrads Hindus in Damdami Taksal as one of thier Mahapurush had name Fateh Chand.

Only problem over there was that since long as it became Arya Samaj wants to eliminate us by hook or by crook.That they wants for Hindus also.Past they supported Udasi Mahants this time Nirnakaris via Punajb Kesri.

when they found them s elves weak they made this matter Hindus verse Sikh.Aray Samaj has racial feeling of pro Brahmin while nirnakris(fake) are preo Khatirs.

They oppose egaltarian AKJ or Damdami Taksal or Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Guru Panth JI.Aray Samajis look more like Hindus and have family realtions with some of thems and with help of disgrunteled people did kidnapped many hindu girld balming to to Sikhs which this so called Terroist Sant rescued by the help of Punjab Police.

There were mnay people in congress and Govt Sikhs and non Sikhs or Non Punjabis also who supported Sant Ji.

Present CM is not an exception.


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## kharkoo4life (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

With all due respect veer ji, i know i may be going a bit off topic with this post of mine but i would like to point out a few comments made which i was quite suprised to read.



			
				vijaydeep Singh said:
			
		

> Our Panth has history that our Tenth Master Burnt alive the Masands for going against the teneasts of Gurmat yet talking about Sikhi ie hypocrcy.


 
Gurmat is a philosophy, a sidhaant, which was shown to us by the gurus.  No guru forced anyone to follow this gurmat philosophy.  If anyone chose to follow gurmat they did so voluntarily because they came to understand it and appreciate embodiment of Truth contained within.  There is no tenent in Gurmat which teaches one to hurt or kill someone simply because they disagree with you.  The only time any form of violence is justified by gurmat is to defend onself or somebody else against physical harm/death.  Simply because one chooses to diasgree with you, or not follow your suggestions/advice is not enuff reason to condone violence.

With regards to the above reference to the masands, i am curiuos as to exactly what tenants of gurmat the masands were going against which warranted their burning.  I am fuly aware that the masands, being the nominated sewadaars to look after the gurdwaras, over time forgot about their original purpose and instead became engrossed in attainment of wealth and power.  This lead a very hypocritical lifestyle of outer dispaly of religsosity while complimented with an inner impurity laced in greed, lies and treacheries (not unlike most gurdwara and dera managements today).  But this in itself is no reason to have justified their alleged burning, and that too ordered by the guru, UNLESS the masands actively engaged in physical harm unto the general population.  You may probably have more familiarity and knowledge of the stories, so if this in fact was true i would like to know exactly what they did.



> Banda singh Bahdur was defeated as he also wanted to be living Guru but Tat Khalsa helped Mughals to defeat him.


 
One of the saddest marks on sikh history is how a person as loyal, devoted, and unconditionaly committed to the path of Sikhi as Banda Singh Bahadur, has been relegated to a mere, lowly, self-centered, power hungry fanatic.  Guru Gobind Singh was not so short sighted or careless to have bestowed such a great responsiblity and trust on the shoulders of a man who inside had the potential to later waver from his faith and commit acts of disloyalty and blasphemy.

Banda Singh was not an ordinary average joe off the street.  Even before having met GUru Gobind Singh, Banda Singh had always been a highly intellectual being with thrist for knowledge and truth.  Granted that earlier he was never succesful in finding the truth and was led astray and got caught up in mindless rituals, rites and cults of the time (much like Bhai Lehna was earlier in his life), however, after being in the company of GUru Gobind Singh, he came to realize the message of truth thru the Guru.  

(the example of bhai lehna is merely to highlight that while both were engrossed in mindless rituals earlier in their life, they both did have an inner yearning and thirst for knowledge of truth.  And this thirst was only satisfied after each came into the company of the Guru and was blessed by their teachings.  Obvsiously Banda Singh was not a guru, and can never be givne the same status of one, and nor is it my intention)

Anyways, the point being, that Banda Singh attained the gyaan, thru the logic based teachings of the Guru and became a selfless devotee of the Guru just as the other great Sikhs of the era, e.g. Bhai Mani SIngh, Baba Deep Singh.  He was a man wiling to undergo the most gruesome of tortures and death without flinching or comromsing even the tiniest part of his faith.  All the tales of how he became corrupted by power and wished to establish himself as the leader, or next 'guru' are nothing more than false propaganda perpetuated by those who feel threatened by the message of truth embodied in the teachings of Sikhi.

How could a man who inked nothing but praise of Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh on the coins be charged with being corrupted with greed and ego?

How could a man who watched hundreds of his brothers tortured and killed before him, who had his own four year old son murdered and his heart forcibly stuffed into his mouth, and who was later himself tortured to death in a most painful manner be questioned on his loyalty and devotion to the guru?

Banda Singh Bahadur was the personification of a true sikh, just like the countless thousands of other Singhs who lived during that time.  TO turn such an inspiring virtuous man, of the noblest of character into a traitor of the Khalsa Panth who was more concerned with his own status then the message of Guru Nanak would be one of the gravest unforgivable errors we as SIkhs could make today.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Gurfateh

Das can say that Guru aponited Banda for killing wrong person Wazeer Khan which Banda did and that all was his role.further all he did was by his own self.(Refer Bhangus Panth Prakash).
Guru anyway did give chance to bad people to reform but they rathr ditched him,that was not the fault of Guru like Gangu Brahmin or say Gurra Khan who stabed Guru by ditching.

coming to Masands,It was there that they used mony of worshipper for personal use and in bad deeds.Very purpose of our philososhy was defeated as it was done in our name.


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## kharkoo4life (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*



			
				vijaydeep Singh said:
			
		

> Gurfateh
> 
> Das can say that Guru aponited Banda for killing wrong person Wazeer Khan which Banda did and that all was his role.further all he did was by his own self.(Refer Bhangus Panth Prakash).
> Guru anyway did give chance to bad people to reform but they rathr ditched him,that was not the fault of Guru like Gangu Brahmin or say Gurra Khan who stabed Guru by ditching.
> ...


 
How exactly did Banda Singh Bahadur "ditch" the guru?  By having his son butchered before his very eyes?  By being tortured to death himself because he was a Sikh?  

And how exactly did the masands use the money of the sangat which warranted them being burned to death?

There are countless gurdwara committee members, presidents, staff etc both in north america and india who use the money from the sangat (out of the golak) for wrongful purposes, ranging from unbecoming behaviour such as drinking, partying to buying things for personal needs like cars, houses etc.  They all collect money in the name of the guru but are any of their actions reasons to justify us to go out and kill them?  I am not saying that masand were innocent people, i would just like to know what exactly they did which warranted them being burned alive (if that was the case).


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Gurfateh
As per Sau Sakhi das has read that Masands use to come to houses of poor Sikhs and use to bully them to serve Masands by feeding them and doing other jobs as if Masands were thier masters.Guru told Sikhs to loot the mony of Masands

Das er another recent book das comes accros that Masands did adultary to some Sikhni.

Das wil verfy this from Suraj Praksah which is online.

http://www.ik13.com/online_library.htm

Das could not read the link above but you can try to read it.

but there is another story about erhas bhai Feru Ji,when Guru ordered that all Masands be summoned with muska Tarna ie tied with beared etc. 

as Bhai Feru was a good Sikh yet Masand he no one held his beared.

He held his own bered and came to Guru and asking for pardon.Guru titled him ure beared after folluwing conversatoin.

Guru asked him why did not you submit your funds collected from Dashwand(Tenthy) of Sikhs to me.
He said that he used that mony to fed poors.

Guru Said that mouth of poor is his golak(lace to keep funds).So that mony which you used to feed poor has reached me.

But other Masands were not forgiven. 

Then coming to Banda,We did wrong so he was paid for that.most robly Hill king took him away from Sikhi.

As he showed many Miracles peole started to revr him.He later roclaimed Guruhood and said that Khalsa who ate my goats,I will defeat them.
The Koel kid lives in crow yet it reamins koel and so I am by my self all powerful.
as er Bhangus book it states.

Kahe Banda Hum Ap Guru
Humre sang Sabh Laag Taro.

Banda Said he is himself Gurum and who so ever follow him will be slavaged.

Sangat Kahe in im Farmaya.
Is Ko Kal nikat Ho aya

Khalsa said that he said like that and his end is nearing.
The link below is based upon Bhangus book.



http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/article_samparda_bandai.html


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Gurfateh

to read full details of punishment to Masands see the link below with page no 70 there it is chapter 9

http://www.ik13.com/Ruts/SGPS%20Rut%202.pdf


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## kharkoo4life (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

The story of the buring of the masands doesnt hold any water when analyzed against the kusvutee of gurbani.  As i said before, the only time guru ji condoned killing someone was to either defend oneself or somoene else against direct physical harm.  The Guru was willing to forgive opponents in the battlefield ready to kill him, he was even willing to forgive aurengzeb after he had ordered the execution of his youngest sons, so why would the Guru be so haste as to not be willing to forgive the masands merely for some selfish management and misuse of financial funds?

Suraj Parkash by Kavi Santokh Singh can hardly be regarded as an authentic, factual based primary reference book.  It is filled with scores of sakhis engrossed in mysticism, magic, miracles, supernatural powers.  The value of the sakhis in the book lies only in the overall message behind them; the sakhis themselves should not be all taken literally, because many are filled with descriptions, actions which go against the fundamentals of gurmat.

With regards to the life of Banda Singh Bahadur, i suggest you read The life of Banda Singh Bahadur, by Dr. Ganda Singh.  Unlike many other sakhis written about Banda Singh this book an example of meticulous historical composition marked by accuracy of detail and authenticity of evidence based on original and contemporary sources of information.  There are references to every piece of work he draws his information from.  This book is probably the best attempt by anyone to date in succesfully breaking down the myths and false accusations laid against banda singh.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 30, 2005)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Gurfateh

As Banda was more anti muslim and at that point of time when Ganda Singh Ji wrote thebook we were nearing partition and Sikh Muslims reltions were not good.

Due to anti Muslim policy of Banda and need of our a villian was made Hero.

It is strange that person 125 years neaer to Banda was wrong but one 250 years was OK.

If you go to Punjab we have memorials to great Sikhs but no of Banda but later on it was made in delhi.

das would like to say that thier Gaddi si at Rahtak near Delhi ie Bandais.

Still Bairage caste gives linage to him and talks ill of Panth by still calling him Madhodas.Hanspal of congress supports them.

As per thier Bandais Legend Banda did not die in Delhi but went to Jammu ,gave birth to child who till this date has generatons called Sodis in surname.

Then coming to Suraj Prakash,when Kavi Santokh Singh says something about RAAGmala it is OK but others things are wrong.

Das would like to have a quote from Guru Granth Sahib Ji which tells us to not to punish rapists or say one who burns other alive.

Das again wants you to go to link of Suraj Prakash and you will be finding the reason of buring alive of Masands.

They burnt alive baba Ramrai,Son of Seventh Master and Brothewr of Eight Master.Guru punished them on complaint by Punjab Kaur wife of Baba Ram Rai.

to be claer Das wants quote from Guru Bani which was writtan much before episode of Masand Burning which opposed it.

Das would also like to know the reason that Tenth Guru who was one with God with no ego left.and Guru Granth Sahib are verses of God.

Then how can God be bind with words God self told humans to follow.

How is it posible that God was bounded by book God himself wrote
 while God was working withing Tenth Master as Tenth Master was slave of God.

If God moves as per book wriitan by self then that is not God who is omni potant.It is book which moves by God.

Das is interested to know the verse which is anti to Masand Burning.


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## karanjot (Mar 31, 2007)

*martyr,or,militant*

sat sri akal...
i ve always been wondering about santbhindranwala...tht is he a good person or a wicked.. 
if i go by my dad n mom they think tht he was a puppet in dirty politics...his workwas considered wrong cz media was not with him..
though i think tht his ideas were good..
but was khalistan the only way out....
we came such a long way aftr independence 4 all this...
this is something tht ma mind disagrees with...
the question tht arises in ma mnd is "y khalistan??"
n also as i don ve much knoeledge abt sant bhindranwala i heard some people say tht he was against brahmans in punjab,,,
he made staements which were against hindus...
though i ve nvr gone through any..
this is als0 an elemnt of doubt in my mind...
finally i ask the opinion of all the people tht please tell me about sant bhindranwala...i m too curious abt him n i really want to know tht wat he did was rite or wrong...



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## drkhalsa (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: martyr,or,militant*

Welcome to the forum Respected Karamjot


I hope you will get some or all of the answer you are looking for

.=http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/5324-did-sant-jarnail-singh-bhindrawale-ji.html

Here is the useful link






Thanks


Jatinder Singh


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## risam1 (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

i would just like to say one thing, if we have ur own land, 84 never happens.


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## Archived_member7 (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: martyr,or,militant*

Satsriakaalji Saadhsangat...
                                         This has been a valid question ... My opinion abt him is ..as far as prachaar and social cleansing goes ... He was amazing .. Power corrupts ...as they say...Indira used him ..against Akalis ...This Sant ..would travel all over with sten guns !!!!
           Indira then realised   the guy was getting too much for her ...she wanted him eliminated...He was smart to hide in the Harimadar Sahib thinking she wont try..!!!!!

 what rest happened is the blackest chapter in the History of the entire Hindustan...!!!

 Guru Raakha


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## badmash (Apr 2, 2007)

Bhindranwale had ***** no doubt. Unlike any other political figure in modern india, he actually died for his cause. However, he should not have put Harimandir Sahib at risk. For in the destruction of Akal Takht, he has much responsibility. Better to have died in the open fields or city gullies, but to have left the gurudwaras out of it. But for that, we as a community would have needed real cohesion and spirit to thwart men of his grit and domination. All sikhs share some responsibility for the shame inflicted on us by the stool belching Indian government.


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 3, 2007)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved*

They sent the Army with tanks and artillary to wipe out everyone present, selected a day with large crowds of pilgrims, old people and children. The Army did severe damage to Akal Takht as a sign of Indian Government authority, and attacked 40 major Gurudwaras at the same time. They imposed complete martial law, blackout of the press and heavy propaganda since that day. It was an attack on Sikhi, not Sant Ji. As can be highlighted in the fact that since Sant Ji's death in 1984, hundreds thousands Sikhs were arrested, tortured, murdered and disappeared. 

It's said the end result is your true intent.....it is clear that annihilation of Sikh identity into Hindu by brutal force was the true intent. 

Sant Ji left a legacy of dignity in the midst of the greatest horrors. He stood his ground against overwhelming odds, and fought back like a tiger.

YouTube - Sons of Guru Gobind Singh 1984 recollection

Funny how anyone in India who wants freedom from oppression, justice, human rights is branded a terrorist and genocidally attacked. This is true of Sikhs, Muslims, Dalits, Kashmiris...What is sad is even after the obvious horror of Congress Party, people still give credibility to their justifications for oppression. 

YouTube - 1984 Indian State TERRORISM against minorities

*Sant Ji was RIGHT!*








*Human Rights in the World's Largest Democracy. *


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## Ramnjit (Apr 3, 2007)

*Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

I think Khalistan was a little un-sikh like. WE need to start a nation for Punjab like Maharaja Ranjit Singh had. Even tho the Sikhs had an empire we didnt call punjab a sikh punjab did we? We should not have Khalistan be a seperate nation. We need to bring back the nation which the british, Ghandi, Nehru, and Jinnah took away from all Muslims, Hindus, and Sikhs of Punjab. We need to being back the Kingdom of Punjab, the Socialist Great Government we had and the People who were seperated in the 1940's back. What we need is to Stop Capatilist ideals in Punjab and have our own country and soon before the governments of pakistan and india poisen our great land with its Nuclear Power Plants and American Cars. India and Pakistan might of gotten their Inqlab but Punjabis still arnt aware of the things that will happen to punjab withen the next decades. We dont have Bhagat Singh Anymore or else punjab would have been a seperate nation years before Bhindrawale was even born. And for the idea of having a Sikh Religous Country, we shouldnt for it goes against everything sikhs live for, Equaility in all people. It doesnt matter what u want to call thsi country, i think Azaadistan would sound senseible but it really does matter, all that matters is that punjabi get there own country, and soon.


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved*

Azaadistan?

And that flag with Hindu Om and Muslim crescent? Are you sure Azaadistan isn't some Hindutva ideal? Of course you do know that Khalsa Raj will rule from Punjab all over the world. 

Khalistan is land of the Khalsa. It can be no other. 




*Khalistan Zindabad!*


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## Boota (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved*

Not only has Sant Ji not deserved the respect for his Martyrdoom but also for the way he reignited Sikhism and awoke a slumbering faith. I believe he installed fear into the government (FOR THIS REASON ALONE) and that is why they would stop and nothing to finish him


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## riceboy89 (May 6, 2007)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved*



Harjas Kaur Khalsa said:


> They sent the Army with tanks and artillary to wipe out everyone present, selected a day with large crowds of pilgrims, old people and children. The Army did severe damage to Akal Takht as a sign of Indian Government authority, and attacked 40 major Gurudwaras at the same time. They imposed complete martial law, blackout of the press and heavy propaganda since that day. It was an attack on Sikhi, not Sant Ji. As can be highlighted in the fact that since Sant Ji's death in 1984, hundreds thousands Sikhs were arrested, tortured, murdered and disappeared.
> 
> It's said the end result is your true intent.....it is clear that annihilation of Sikh identity into Hindu by brutal force was the true intent.
> 
> ...




wjjk wjjf

ive been doing alot of reading about the events surroinding the 1984 attack on the golden temple.  i 100% support what  Harjas Kaur Khalsa has posted above.  there were multiple other solutions to flush out bhindranwale, but is that really the case the indian army had in their mind?  for example, a seige on the temple would have beeen a viable solution.  some say "but the golden temple has food supplies to support thousands of sewadars that come every day."  this is true, however the indian army could have isolated the langar hall and kitchen from the main temple complex.  what baout the hundreds of sikhs that would have converged on the army if a seige was put into place?  to answer that, note how many police officers including the punjab police and crp were distributed in the punjab area.  they could have beefed up police presence even more and kept a strict curfew could they not?  

this was an attack on the sikh faith, not on sant bhindranwale.  despite my parents views on him, which state he was a chayla of indra ghandi, i believe he was an exceedingly honorable man.  i can say with confidence that if i were alive in that time period, i would have joined his cause in a heartbeat.  when he died, the foundation of khalistan was laid, however the rest of the sikh population was too hell bent on pointing fingers to the indian administration to continue the seperist movement, thus failing in making khalistan.

i dont mean to offend anyone in my post, however if i did _maa mafi mangda_


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## jass4singh (May 8, 2007)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale*

no he did not, if it was not for him we would not be talke about sikhi here today


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## sikh84 (May 9, 2007)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get repect*

Sat Sri akal to all

Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was a true martyr and defender of the sikh religion. No he did not get the respect he deserved. I have witnessed alot of bias against sant ji from my fellow sikh friends to the extent that some actually have the audacity to state that sant ji was the reason sikhism underwent turmoil in the late 80's and early 90's. How blind they truly are! I went to a bookshop here in Nairobi recently ( a hindu punjabi owner) after I learnt they stock some books on sikhism. When I asked him whether he had any publications related to Operation Blue Star (not the Gen Brar Book as I can never waste my time on blasphemy) he looked at me in utter shock and stated " those are forgotten subjects". His tone of voice was surprisingly aggressive. "Forgotten"? How do we forget the killing fields of Harmandir Sahib; the genocide in Delhi; destruction of our beloved Akal Takht, the list is never ending. I was understandably very upset and told him off. I am least surprised at this callous attitude from non sikhs towards sant ji but get very perturbed when our very own feign ignorance at the very mention of his name. Sant ji will never be forgotten by us , and it is upon us to educate and reason with those around us, so that they too see the light.

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

T. Singh


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (May 9, 2007)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji*

"Baba Jarnail Singh Ji is one the greatest Sikh Parchaarik (preacher) of the 20th century. Baba Jarnail Singh Ji is one the greatest Sikh Revolutionist of the 20th century. Baba Jarnail Singh is on the greatest Sikh Shaheed of the 20th century." 

Panthic Weekly: An inspiration for all Sikhs



"Our Ardaas in front of Akaal Purkh is that, "May truth and justice prevail. May the thousands of Sikh youths rotting in Indian Jails without trial or case since 1984 be released and that the Sikhs are protected from false allegations, illegal detentions and distorted propaganda which paints Sikhs as terrorists and criminals. Let us remember those who laid down their lives for our today and became shaheeds (martyrs) during one of the darkest periods of recent Sikh history. May we as a nation, perform this Ardas in all Gurdwaras and homes worldwide till true justice is availed."

http://www.panthic.org/news/129/ARTICLE/1421/2005-06-12.html


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## sikh84 (May 10, 2007)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved*

ssa
sikh history is replete with struggles for freedom, justice and equality. The endless list of martyrs who sacrificed their yesterday for our today is unrepresented in any other faith. truth is high , higher still is truthful living. Sant Jarnail Singh ji Bhindranwale laid down his life for this very cause. 

wjkk wjkf


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## jaskaransingh (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

is Savt Jarnail singh ji the only 'sant' or 'bana' who has attined shaaheedi now thinkin about it isnt he the only 'sant' or b'aba' who didnt allow metha tekh before himself and he didnt do kachi bani like Ranjit (doesnt deserve Singh) were where these 'babas'  and why arnt they helpin the panth the now


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## Archived_member3 (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale was considered a fanatical Khalistani manipulated by Indian Army under Indira Gandhi government. Today he would be labeled a terrorist, period. I e-mailed Hardev Singh Shergill, Sikh Bulletin director and he has always been under great pressure coming from Akal Takhat  and Jathedar Singh against Kala Afghana who dared to face those in charge of SGPC. It's sad to say power corrupts and total power corrupts totally (quoting Lord Acton).

I have no opinion about Sant Jarnail Bhindranwale but I admire Hardev Singh Shergill in his fight to defend Singh Sabha movement.


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## Archived_member3 (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Good quote. It helps to clarify the myth behind Jarnail Bhindranwale.


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## dalsingh (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*



Brazilian Kaur said:


> Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale was considered a fanatical Khalistani manipulated by Indian Army under Indira Gandhi government. Today he would be labeled a terrorist, period. I e-mailed Hardev Singh Shergill, Sikh Bulletin director and he has always been under great pressure coming from Akal Takhat  and Jathedar Singh against Kala Afghana who dared to face those in charge of SGPC. It's sad to say power corrupts and total power corrupts totally (quoting Lord Acton).
> 
> I have no opinion about Sant Jarnail Bhindranwale but I admire Hardev Singh Shergill in his fight to defend Singh Sabha movement.



I don't think it is right or accurate to portray Sant Baba Bhindranwale as a Khalistani as such. He never made Khalistan his cause but simply said that if Harmandir Sahib was attacked it would lay the foundation for Khalistan.


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## Archived_member3 (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Akand Paath is one more Hindu influence took borrowed from that religion and incorporated into Sikhi as a faith item and  absolutely irrelevant. It's hard to keep original Gurus' heritage free of alien influences.


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## Archived_member3 (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

All Al-Qaeda soldiers  are also considered shaheed when they die and so what? They're criminals anyway. Let's be careful to avoid mix bravery and commitment with Gurbani and  dirty political game. In India politics is so complex even a an educated native has some difficulty to understand it fully.


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## dalsingh (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*



Brazilian Kaur said:


> Akand Paath is one more Hindu influence took borrowed from that religion and incorporated into Sikhi as a faith item and  absolutely irrelevant. It's hard to keep original Gurus' heritage free of alien influences.



Coming from a society which was largely illiterate and had little time for literacy, I think the Akand Paath was/is a very good way of keeping scripture reading alive. Otherwise the less sophisticated brothers and sisters would be in danger of simply revert to treating SGGS as a focus point of worship like an idol with superficial concern about the contents.


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## Archived_member3 (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Dalsingh ji,

Akand  Paath still remains a sign of a illiterate society. In Brazil as well as in India those oral traditions just keep popular religiosity alive. Of course they're believers but can't distinguish true doctrine from gross superstition. Similarities between India and Brazil are so great I can make this comparison without fear to commit a big mistake.

Is there any justification for such ritual in a literate society like UK? I don't think so but that country is home to all sort of extremism and religious sectarism mainly because Britons can't offer a melting pot to accommodate diversified cultures.


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## dalsingh (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*



Brazilian Kaur said:


> Dalsingh ji,
> 
> Akand  Paath still remains a sign of a illiterate society. In Brazil as well as in India those oral traditions just keep popular religiosity alive. Of course they're believers but can't distinguish true doctrine from gross superstition. Similarities between India and Brazil are so great I can make this comparison without fear to commit a big mistake.




Brazilian Kaur 

I understand what you're saying. Personally I have a feeling this is the result of the turmoil of 1700s. When people faced extinction in the earlier part  of the century due to Moghul policies and invasions from Persia and Afghanistan. A stronger emphasis was then (I believe) placed on warriorship for obvious survival reasons. This relegated  literacy or sophisticated study for the majority, who learnt to fight and memorise bani as second nature. Even if they couldn't give any in depth exposition of the scripture.  But to be frank, Panjabi peasantry (who form the bulk of the Sikh population in India) have never really taken to education en masse even to this day (by this I mean studying for knowledge and not for career prospects). But I'm not complaining - The action they took ensured the culture survives to this day - so three cheers for them! Hooray.

These practices DO however serve a purpose. Buying a new house and having an akhand paath or Sukhmani sahib paath can help to foster a more positive atmosphere in the house, even if this is just a perception thing in the mind of the individual or family. What I don't agree with is the increasing habit of families to have akhand paaths on say their children's graduations or birthdays without really having an overall interest in Sikhism. But you have to factor the social aspect of such activities for people. For the older generation, most, if not all of their social lives outside of home took place in the Gurdwara.



Brazilian Kaur said:


> Is there any justification for such ritual in a literate society like UK? I don't think so but that country is home to all sort of extremism and religious sectarism mainly because Britons can't offer a melting pot to accommodate diversified cultures.



I understand what your saying but like I said previously, they serve a good purpose. If you came from a foreign land to a hostile environment, it is the "rituals" or traditional practices that can help in times of crisis to give some semblance of normality or continuity to life. 

I agree with your analysis of British multiculturalism. It is crazy. I think the indigenous are split between accepting other people and their ways and a growing group which detests foreign nonwhite things, especially those that are eastern. I often am really surprised at how people in America seem to more interest in Sikhi than the British, but this is generally an irreligious place.  Having lived here nearly all my life I feel like these people are very confused about what they want and which direction to go. I personally still believe that many institutes here operate on pseudo imperialistic lines. The media is a blatant example of this, where non white Britons are frequently demonised and made to be objects of hate. I think academics refer to this as "othering."


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## spnadmin (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

Jios,

I am a little lost at this point. Somehow,  akhand path and Sant Jarnail Bhindranwale became connected in the thread topic. Maybe I missed something? 

Agreed, the oral tradition would have the effect of keeping awareness of Guruji front and center in an illiterate society. 

But please explain, 

Why not Akhand Paath in a literate society? Why not oral tradition in a literate society? 

How is the continuous recitation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib something of a hold-over Hindu tradition or ritual?

I can think of at least a half-dozen reasons to continue with the akhand paath, all of which are supported in Gurbani itself.


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## Archived_member3 (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

My dear dalsingh,

We have lengths of good conversation ahead not only about rites in threshold events that are really meaningful albeit non intellectual and the weirdo Britons. UK sounds so crazy and boring I'd never made any effort to visit that country. Ask anybody who came to Brazil and please insist in the difference they realized between our flexibility towards different cultures and that of UK. The difference is blatant. 

Did you know there are more Muslims in Brazil than in Canada (600,000) and they are so well absorbed in our great cultural melting pot they keep a low profile. In UK there isn't agreement except regarding the monarchy (absolutely unintelligible for me as an institution for the XXI century). Middle East and India/Pakistan mess are just leftovers of  incomplete and disastrous decolonization. The least they could do is to receive all former colonies' population as their own people but they never had that grandeur. Englishmen dislike all non-white people and even white with a non-British ancestry.  Just pay attention to their food; it never evolved since celts and is still a symbol of their lack of imagination. 
I'm white, caucasian and of mediterranean ancestry (Italy/Spain/Portugal) but nonetheless like people from Indian subcontinent (the classification is merely geographic due to my academic background).


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## pk70 (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

(quote)
All Al-Qaeda soldiers are also considered shaheed when they die and so what? They're criminals anyway. Let's be careful to avoid mix bravery and commitment with Gurbani and dirty political game. In India politics is so complex even a an educated native has some difficulty to understand it fully.  

*Brazillian Kaur ji,
With due respect, [text removed, not necessary in a civilized discussion.]*
*How can you even compare "Baba Jarnail Singh ji and his fight " with Al queda? What are you thinking? Before making any conclusion one must understand the reason and causes behind any battle fought. When he was alive, not a single human bomb was used to kill innocents, that alone sets him a far away to compare with any terrorist group.  You have to look deep into a situation he was and why people surrounded him? Most of his lectures were responses to politicians who betrayed public. Many tried to mislead him. He never set up a battle against independent state at all. He was just asking fair treatment for Sikhs, what was wrong with that? He stood against Indira who wanted him to dance to her tunes, he stood against all corrupt leaders of the time. Youth started feeling good being Sikhs; however, nothing was preached  against India or any one. A lot of things happened. The only thing that angered some Sikhs was his stay in Harminder Sahib Complex otherwise he was well respected not as a savior but as a fair, honest and person of morality.  Center and other corrupt leaders took him as a threat to their power and existence. He was very different than any Sant or Baba in this century.I am just amazed at your thinking........*


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## Astroboy (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala has been a controversial figure because there is a mixed bag of opinions about him. What is being shared here are just viewpoints which are likely to contradict. This doesn't put one viewpoint more superior than the other.


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## drkhalsa (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*



> Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale was considered a fanatical Khalistani manipulated by Indian Army under Indira Gandhi government. Today he would be labeled a terrorist, period.


It has been discussed over and over again on the forum but still the saga goes on . The reason is that many things are too unclear and cant be approached acurately 
So their are many view points  the one you mentioned is also one of them.



About Akhand Path . Yes it seems very similar to the practice in Hindus where they read  their scripture  over and over again and also calls it Path of Ramayan or so forth 

Literacy has hardly any relation to it in my opinion nd if it does have then Literate society also needs this to remind them of their culture atleast 

Any thing Hindu in Sikh culture is wrong and corruption is wierd Idea to say the least .Hindiosm has been a Religion in loose term though for many many years and has served as instruments to crores of people to keep thier comitment to GOD for what so ever reason 

So how can Hindu influences be always wrong . is the HINDU religion man made and Sikhism Godly .. Its the same God who created Hinduism also created Sikhism so my Little brain fail to comprehend such categrisation

Akhand path done by Pathi /Baee ji and not listened by anybody is now the NORM at all places Inclusing very Sofisticated Countries Like UK . and yes It seems Wrong but still serves the Cultural thing of reming the people of their Guru . Thinhgs could be added to it to make more sense out of it rather than scraping the practice all together 

Like Sehag path could be done by members of family taking turns at the pace they can do it comfortably and the Bhog ceremony could be done at the End as ususal 


Thanks

Jatinder Singh


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## Boota (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

WJKK, WJKF

Sant Ji is FINALLY getting  a modicum of the respect he deserved.

The unveiling of his picture in Harminder Sahib as an immortal shaheed is evidence of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWv9WGasPz8

The script below his picture is poignant and apt;

*"The great Sikh General of the 20th Century, the 14th chief of the Damdami Taksal, Sant Giani Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, who along with numerous valiant Sikhs attained martyrdom on Wednesday, the 6th of June, 1984, fighting against the Indian Armed Forces for the honour and prestige of Sri Harmandar Sahib and Sri Akal Takht Sahib."*

Sant Ji was the subject to a character assassination of a massive scale by the criminal Indian government and right wing, neo fascist, Hindu factions.

It is up to us to bring the truth about him into the mainstream.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

Gurfateh
It was Balbeer Punj of BJP and now Advani,who use unworhty words for Sant Ji.
It is condemable.


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## Archived_member3 (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

My statement was about the word 'shaheed' and you jumped to other conclusions. I know quite well the difference between Wahhabism and the plight for an independent Khalistan. Your viewpoint is from someone raised as a Sikh in a Punjabi cultural environment. Religious fundamentalists tend to be fanatical. Operation Blue Star was the encounter of Indira's corrupt government  and methods which fostered a young man with high ideals (Bhindranwale) and  a behavior  without measuring consequences. A hard backlash was the natural reply.

I didn't say Jarnail Bhindranwale used OBL methods; I said combatants from both sides are called shaheedeen.


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## Archived_member3 (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*

I really don't know. There are so many threads probably I posted my reply in the wrong place and others did the same...


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## Boota (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*



Brazilian Kaur said:


> Indira's corrupt government and methods which fostered a young man with high ideals (Bhindranwale) and a behavior without measuring consequences.


 
Dear B Kaur.

My view has always been that Sant Ji very carefully and skilfully thought through his actions and the possible consquences of them.  I would be interested to why you form the directly opposite view?

It is important that we lay the blame for the aftermath of Bluestar at the right door, not the convenient one that the Media spin would have you believe.

You may be interested to read this from Dr Subramaniam Swami, Ex MP;

_June 6, will be remembered as a landmark in modern Indian history. On that date, the indian armed forces took control of the Golden Temple complex after destroying the Akal Takht and killing Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. The nation, on the whole, expressed releif. A few of us, however, expressed sorrow and felt that Operation Bluestar, as the action was called, was horrible blunder which would aggravate the problem of "terrorism", not contain it. Since then, the problem has, indeed, been aggravated. New crusaders for the Sikhs have now surfaced. 
To put the record straight, Ram Jethmalani - the new Galahad - was not one of those who had opposed Operation Bluestar. Today he may pose at a defender of the underdog, but on June 6, 1984, he expressed satisfaction with goverment's ation. _
_This is said not, of course, to defend the BJP in sacking Jethmalani. The BJP is wholly communal. As long as Jethmalani was defending Haji Mastaan, the alleged smuggler king, Varadarajan Mudaliar, Jaspal Singh (of the CIA espionage case), and the Sarda case murders in Pune, the BJP was at peace with its principles. But the moment Jethmalani decided to defend the two alleged comspirators in the murder of Mrs Gandhi, the BJP expressed great revulsion. This revulsion is due to the fact that the BJP is once again wooing the vote-bank in North India which laid the foundations for Pakistan. Besides, the BJP is now busy trying to make Khalistan inevitable. The forces behind this vote bank are actively trying to polarise Punjab. The BJP, thus, is aspiring to be the agent of the "silent terrorists" - the Hindu communalist' - Jethamalani is merely the fly in the ointment. _
_The Jethmalani issue is typical of the machinations that have created the present situation in Punjab. Various actors in the drama have indulged in posturing without regard for the consequences on their histrionics. First, there was Mrs Ghandi, who described the Akali Dal's 41 point economic and social demand charter as "secessionist" in a effort to win the communal Hindu vote. There was nothing separatist about these demands. Then came her son, Rajiv Ghandi, who maintained that the Anandpur Sahib Resolution was antinational. There was nothing unpatriotic in this resolution - if one cared to read it. He also raised the alarm on the Sikh's use of words like "quam" and phrases like "Raj Karega Khalsa" and on that basis denounced the whole community as Khalistanis - all by clever innuendos. "Quam" is no more unacceptable that the "desam" in Telugu Desam or "nadu" in Tamil Nadu. And "Raj Karega Khalsa" is roughly, the equivalent of "Satyameva Jayate". And yet Sikhs were made to feel traitors for using these words . _
_Arguing the counter-point on the Punjab issue, all discussions must ultimately zero in on Bhindranwale, about whom there is so much disinformation that this column is insufficient to remedy the situation. In fact, i am writing an account of the Punjab tragedy in the form of a book in which Bhindranwale figures objectively - warts and all. I hope, my book will inspire a future government to set up a special commission to find out the true story of what happened. My first hand knowledge of events in Punjab also lead me to say the following about Sant Bhindranwale. 
He never advocated Khalistan even when the indian army laid seige to the Golden Temple. 
He was a strict moralist, totally against liquor, drugs and promiscuity. Hence, i totally disbeleive any rumours about pregnant abducted women kept as his prisoners, which were only spread to malign him. 
He was stance anti-communist, and had broken the hold of the Naxalities and pro-soviet communists on the youth of Punjab. _
_It was Bhindranwale's anti-communist stance that activated the Russians and the KGB lobby in Mrs Ghandi's camp to spread disinformation and thus discredit him. A few days before Operation Bluestar, Pravda wroted that Bhindranwale had a direct telephonic link with the CIA in Langley, Virginia, the headquarters of the agency. That was untrue, but leading dailies in New Delhi published wire service reproductions of that article. Who organised this negative media blitz? _
_A large number of the murders committed in Punjab brought swift condemnation from him, but these were never published. Such were the maneuvers of the goverments media mafia. In my presence, Bhindranwale had condemned the massacre in which Hindu's travelling in a bus were segregated and shot. He sent money to the affected Hindu families. But this was never published in any newspaper. When Dr V.N Tiwari, MP, was shot dead in his house in Chandigarh, Bhindranwale wrote to his wife expressing his sorrow and called the murder an act of cowardice. 
But there was such as frenzy in the country at the time that no one was willing to listen. The government encouraged the rumours and disinformation. Even i, who never said anywhere that there were no arms in the Golden Temple, was quoted as having said so by Rajiv Ghandhi in the 1984 monsoon session of parliament. When i challanged him to produce just one news report from a reputable paper as proof, he was unable to do so. All this is part of the Lok Sabha proceedings which we can refer to and yet, from Kanyakumari to Kashmir, wherever i went, the statement that i had never made was quoted again and again to discredit whatever else i would say about Punjab. Who arranged this publicity? The same people who finally murdered Bhindranwale?
_


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## drkhalsa (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER*



> I really don't know. There are so many threads probably I posted my reply in the wrong place and others did the same...



You are alright !There is nothing wrong on your part dear . I was just mentioning this because of my personal experience 
As I was born in The City of Amritsar  and My memories of this issue goes back to time when I was just 4 years old in 1984 and till date people have diff view point about the case.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

Gurfateh


Boota said:


> WJKK, WJKF
> 
> Sant Ji is FINALLY getting a modicum of the respect he deserved.
> 
> ...


 
Bhai Sahib Ji,

present Indian Govt. is pro left rather neo left.It is neo leftist in the grab of Sikhs who are opposing Sant Ji.When donkey in the hiding in hide of lion makes noise,donkey is recoganised.

Coming to hindu forces fighting the communists and more bigot then RSS and want to make India a Hindu Natioan.Das without any doubt wants to say consider Sant Ji as thier Hero and a role Model.

Sant Ji were never anti hindu,but were Anti to those guys,who wanted to drive the vedge be ween Sikhs and Hindus.Within his force there were good lot of Kharku,who were from hindu families and joined his movement.

Same congress,who at that time was supporting Narakdharis and Punjab kesari(Lala Jagat Naryan was made minster by congress).Has been supporting spokesman and Hari Rattan Yukta.

Bhai Rajkhalsa could give testomnay to it that class fellow of Sant Ji from DDT,with Six years in jail(for General Vaidya murder conspiracy) now Head Delhi unit of Rashtiya Sikh Sangat and he is motivating Hindu youth fed up from RSS's slow approach,trying to have thier own establishement,to be like Sant Ji.(in action and in in Faith).

Das had once himslef givien a speach to Hindu militants ,ie "to protect the word Ram in your name,you need to have surname Singh and to let India be free from threats each of you have to be like Sant Ji".Sant Ji are the legend.Kala Afghan Sahib were planted by Punjab Police with Sant Ji,but in Mana Wala episode,when Singhs came to know Kala Afghana Sahib's ture colour,he fled to Canada.(as told to das by Kanwar Ajeet Singh Ji).

attacks on babbers,Taksalis,Sant Singh ji Maskeen,Akal Takhat along side all Gurbanis are work of hidden enmies of us.


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## Boota (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*



vijaydeep Singh said:


> Gurfateh
> 
> Das had once himslef givien a speach to Hindu militants ,ie "to protect the word Ram in your name,you need to have surname Singh and to let India be free from threats each of you have to be like Sant Ji".


 
Bhai Sahib,

Would be interested to learn of the militants reaction to the notion suggested.

As they regard Sikhism as being under their umberella they should not have a problem with this.


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## Admin (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

*Admin Note : Two threads dedicated to Sant ji have been merged. Please be informed.
*


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

Sister Brazilian kaur was caught in an unfortunate crossfire..misunderstanding.
She is absolutley right in saying that the word "Shaheed" is used widely. To the Alfatah Plaestinins, the Hammas Group etc all their fighters/bombers/suicide bombers /hijackers/ etc etc are all SHAHEEDS ( for their palestinian Cause) While to the Israelis they are all criminals..
To the British Bhagat Singh was a Criminal convicted in court of law and worthy of being hanged as one...to many  Indians Today...Bhagat Singh is SHAHEED... it is no ones intention to EQUATE ALL THESE...
its just the Same word being used for all by their supporters. Sometimes many of us are too quick on the draw...and we shoot ourselves in the foot. 

Regards
Gyani jarnail Singh


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## Archived_member3 (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

I acknowledge I have no elements to issue an opinion about Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. My local references were only from revolutionaries, communists who followed Che Chevara ideals (for whose who don't know Che Chevara he helped to expand Cuba revolution to Latin America). I'm politically very conservative and Brazilian politics is so corrupt I don't have stomach to talk about. I'd like to live in other country - I like USA - but immigration laws are almost impossible  to be followed in full. Only religious ministers have a chance to get a permanent residency visa.


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## Boota (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

This is a well balanced and sourced article that dispels many of the myths regarding Sant JI

http://www.sikhgenocide.org/downloads/sandhu.doc


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## vijaydeep Singh (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

Gurfateh


Boota said:


> Bhai Sahib,
> 
> Would be interested to learn of the militants reaction to the notion suggested.
> 
> As they regard Sikhism as being under their umberella they should not have a problem with this.


most of them are illinformed about thier own faith so thier knowing about us something very remote.

Before das came to this point das did explain them things in thier own faith.Then das told that good things in them retained by us plus good lot of unpreceedented things to destroy unprcedednted evil unto mankind and strenghted the man kind.

It was surprising that even before das said these things many were interested to be Sikh and one even said that keeping uncut hair is actually thier own legacy.

But then there was a pause.where das should have sent them to be baptised.

In delhi Akalis were fighting.

Das could not belive  missionaries for now as good lot of leftists have entered them ,with whom Hindu militants are fighting.

in DDT,Dhuma Ji fights with Baba Ram Singh Ji.

Life of AKJ is unfit for jungle living guirillas.

So das took one of them to one Budhadal Bunga.But there too we have drugs etc. not good for revloution.Das hopes that within year or tow with change in government at centre.Sikhs will have end of infighing in thier institution.And we will have new converts.Else also das will be getting permission of Baba Balbeer Singh ji to conduct the conversion by himself(with Panj Piaras living near Das).

Hindus has some points which das did clarfied.
1.Sikhs worship god Shiva

Das explined that our Shiva is one who is in all and odes not lives on the moutain.That should be your shiva as per your text.As per us the Nihung Shiva living on the mount Kaliash was first worshippe rof Sikh God Akal.
2. Jaats use to make one son as Sikh(they mistook it for Khatris).

Das explained that it was much later during Sikh rule that upper caste wanted to come near rulers that this thing happened else faith belongs to outcastes and tribals and they should be our leader.
3. we are made to defend hinduism.

hindu is nation specific thing and we are universal faith(Vedas have no wordl hindu for faith)We are made to defend weak and poor and empower them by making them have faiht in true God.We destroy the opprsor,if he/she does not surender to us.We have history to fight for Muslims also for thier just cause.

Even while we fight so called Islamic teror,Leftist ultra or west backed chirstian separtists.We do not have to have any sense of hatred towards any.

We will have to control those Hindu in our movement,who are racial(with superiorty complex of being from Aryan race)

meeting was held on 25/12/2007 at some location.

In future we should be ready to see the ralisation of Karani Nammah.

Only thing is to keep tab of idiots like one who run spokesman.Even if Sikhs do not keep tab on them,thier self distrcution phenomina is on.But yet we will have to have more true Sikh Missioary ,who are more interested to convert more human kind to faith then to condem the fellow Sikhs in public and let potential be dis enchanted.
Akal bless.


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## Archived_member3 (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

My ignorance: who is 'das' ? Can anybody rewrite the text above? It seems Vijaydeep Singh wrote in English thinking in other language. Sorry, I can't understand. Any volunteer?


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## spnadmin (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

Kaur ji

"Das" means servant or slave. It is not uncommon for people with an Indian background to refer to themselves in communication in the 3rd person, using the word "das." It signifies that the person is placing himself/herself in a humbled position before others. A matter of a personally chosen communication style. 

Vijaydeep is a long-time member of the forum. He is known for his humor and his passion in writing about all kinds of Sikh issues, but in particular Gurbani and spiritual growing. As a person, he is an astute scholar and a humanitarian. After a while you will be able to understand him -- he says some very profound things.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

Definitely and precisely said aad ji. I have known Vijaydeep Singh on SPN as well as Tapoban for quite a few years now. We have a few disagreements on a few subjects...( ususal in the realm of Gurbani/dsm granth/gurmatt etc) but i respect him immensely (although he is half my age ). His wriitng style and language is "desi" ( not meant negativitely as he is indian after all just as i am but we have lived and used English differently..so...cant comment further !!)..but his heart is in the right place and his wriitngs command respect.  Bhen ji Brazilain kaur Ji..just slowdown a bit and read his posts slowly..you will get the gist of what vijay is saying...He is surely an asset to SPN and will remain so...Guru Ji Kirpa karan.
Regards to all
Gyani jarnail Singh


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## drkhalsa (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

Dear Brazillian Kaur Ji 

I have tried to make changes to his writing to make it more easy to read .
Below is the edited text 

Actually as I know Vijaydeep Singh , he is multitasker kind of man so has got pretty much thin time to do lot many of things so he write in hurry and hardly get time to amend it .





HERE HE ( VIJAYDEEP SINGH)IS MENTIONING ABOUT HIS MEETING WITH HINDU MILITANT IN DEC 2007




> *Most of them are illinformed about thier own faith ( ie  Hinduism)so thier chances of knowing about us is something very remote.
> 
> Before das( Vijaydeep Singh) came to this point das did explain them things in thier own faith.Then das( Vijaydeep Singh) told that good things in them ( their Faikth ie. Hinduism)have been  retained by us ( SIKHS )plus good lot of unpreceedented things to destroy unprcedednted evil unto mankind and Things to  strenghted the man kind.
> 
> ...


*


if there is need of further clarification  feel free to ask 

Jatinder Singh
*


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## ballym (Feb 2, 2010)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*



gurbilas said:


> as a young boy I was highly impressed by Sant ji's words .
> All this continued till finally 'terrorists' struck and killed my uncle . I felt so different and it was only then I first realised that the pain of death is the same for everybody.
> I could identify more with the affected people and this was basically the reason for the end of terror in Punjab and not any Gill or Rebiero or Beant Singh.
> There was no leadership for the Sikhs. I was like many other capable of following but not good enough to be a leader probably and hence the youth were lost which is partially the reason for the present state of Punjab.
> ...


It is good that your childhood ideas changed later!
What KPS Gill did was to kill about one person in nearly everyfamily or khandan so that the same feeling you had also comes to each one. Gill may have done wrong but , other option is worse... all duplicate khalistanis dictating you!
 Yes ,.. you r right about leadership needs but bhindranwale was not a great leader. he captured the opportunity. Everyone was scared of him.
 I agree with the rest I quoted above for emphasis.
 We do not even respect patits ... forget about Hindu, muslim, Christians.


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## dalbirk (Feb 2, 2010)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

IMHO , Bhindranwale was planted by Indira , Zial singh & agencies into Sikh mainstream to take revenge from Akalis for their unparralleled courage shown during emergency when the whole country did not have guts to oppose her .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emergency_(India)
   The whole national mainstream media after the Emergency just crumbled in front of Indira & Congress . They were fed with doctored reports & news making Bhindranwale a national hero in 1980 onwards , slowly he was made more popular than anything Sikhs had known since Master Tara Singh . Many ex Naxalites joined his ranks , also ex-army officer General Subeg singh a veteran of 1971 Indo-Pak war joined him . The growth in power accompanied by Bhindranwale's moving into Guru nanak Niwas made all calculations of Akalis go awry .The agencies started meanwhile started murdering selective Hindus & also Sikhs , blaming it on gun totting Bhindranwale's boys who were supplied arms by the same agencies , who was busy gathering limelight running his court from Guru nanak Niwas & passing judgements , while Indira was preparing a fool proof case against him . He was being portrayed as a terrorist , a danger to India's unity by National mainstream media , just a few days before Operation Bluestar Rajeev Gandhi termed him as a Saint in newspaper interview . Then all the pre planned attack came about for which Indian security forces had been planning & training for more than a year & half in Chakrata in Doon valley. 
         IMHO Bhindranwale was a opportunist who tried to use Indira but he did not judge that Indira would go to any length to teach both him & Akalis a lesson , the other factor was the collective votes of Hindus & Muslims without annoying any of these communities , at the same time projecting herself as the saviour of India's unity & integrity . But the last three days of Bhindranwale washed all his misdeeds , when he & his boys fought with unparralleled grit & determination for upholding the sanctity of Darbar Sahib when he had all the chance , choice to escape to safety , thereby making him immortable in Sikh history . Any body interested in events of 1984 Bluestar & Nov 84 genocide kindlt read the book Kion Keete Visah by Narain Singh written in Feb 1985 , just after 1984 events , a complete independent , transparent account of atrocities commited on Sikhs pre-post 1947 . Any body interested kindly Pm your address & I'll do the needful .


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## harbansj24 (Feb 2, 2010)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

There are some things which are beyond my limited comprehension. I will be grateful if someone could clear the cobwebs in my head.


Did Bhindranwale seriously believe that he could fight the might of of the Indian state by being holed up in a few acres of Darbar Sahib?
Surely he could not have been carried away and imagine himself of doing a repeat of Guru Gobind Singh jis battle at Chamkaur? Anybody can say that these two situations are not comparable.
Did he not realise that Indira Gandhi was just giving him a long rope and wanted to fix him and simultaneously humiliate the Sikhs. Did not Bhindranwale neatly fall into her trap?
When passengers  were selectively being pulled out of buses and murdered in cold blood, why did not  Bhindranwale condemn these acts? Is not killing of unarmed innocents of any faith, specifically against the teaching of our Gurus?
Did not the entire Sikh leadership come out poorly in the whole sorry episode and common Sikhs subjected to entirely avoidable trauma and ridicule worldwide?
Nehru and Indra Gandhi harmed the Sikhs a lot but INMO the response of Sikh leadership was without any well thought of Strategy. This was unlike any of our Gurus who were extemely alert to the situations and their actions well thought out and planned


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## faujasingh (Feb 2, 2010)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*

His political views are not all agreeable, but let me tell you the things are not all clear due unavailability of unbiased accounts. History will never be unbiased.

For me i admire his love and zeal to a certain limit. His parchaar was excellent but again had a tint of naxalism in it in a certain way.

He would go from village to village and do amrit sanchaar, he would setup small groups armed to the teeth, they wouldnt allow any video parlours or wine shops in the area. The women were happy since after a long time the husbands were returning back home by dusk!

He had a dedicated following due to his winning the hearts. But everything was run on the base of gun power.There are two sides of a coin.The hand which holds the gun to protect may not always do what was supposed to be done !

How much control can one have when one is away from the location? the guys whom he had setup, had direct power and the Congress was also wooing him. h


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 2, 2010)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*



Archived_member3 said:


> I acknowledge I have no elements to issue an opinion about Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. My local references were only from revolutionaries, communists who followed Che Chevara ideals (for whose who don't know Che Chevara he helped to expand Cuba revolution to Latin America). I'm politically very conservative and Brazilian politics is so corrupt I don't have stomach to talk about. I'd like to live in other country - I like USA - but immigration laws are almost impossible to be followed in full. Only religious ministers have a chance to get a permanent residency visa.


 
Just for curiousity sake how many times have you been to Punjab,Brazilan Kaur ?
How many years have you lived there ?


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 2, 2010)

*Re: Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh ma*



vijaydeep Singh said:


> Gurfateh
> 
> 
> Bhai Sahib Ji,
> ...


 
That was some thing new for me .Could you please mention the history of Delhi head of RSS ?Is he from Damdami Taksal ?Harnam Dhumma and company are also suspected to be RSS agents.Your info helps in confirming that.

Mr Vijaydeep after going through your various posts I have concluded that you too might be a RSS fellow.

Actually I accidently met a person the net who was originally from Amritsar and had staunch communist views.He told me that his dad was with Bhai Amrik Singh of AISSF(who was killed during Operation Bluestar)and is now a mona and his views have completely changed .

I have begun to wonder that it could have been that Sant Bhindranwale was in fact surrounded by his enemies(probably from RSS) without his knowing this and may be they were responsible for his shaheedi.

At that time Badal,Longowal(dead),Barnala,Balwant Singh Finace minister(dead),Balwant Singh Ramoowalia were also often seen in Sant ji's speeches.In the speech below you can see all of Sant Bhindranwale's enemies including Prakash Badal sitting near him.Most important aspect of this speech is that how the traitors particularly those leaders who agree to anything less the Anandpur Sahib resolution should be treated :

YouTube- Great SpeechWhen Will Khalsa Really Rules


While Sant ji is gone,most of these Kaalis(so called Akalies) are alive and enjoying govt patronage and power !

YouTube- PaRKaSH CHaND BaDaL

Coming back to the topic of this thread "We can not expect Sant Bhindranwale to get the respect he deserved so long as any of these traitors remain .


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## soormejawani84 (Jul 25, 2013)

During a speech on September 20, 1983, Bhindranwale  stated clearly that he would 'embrace' Sikhs who exacted revenge upon  those who were guilty of torturing, killing, or humiliating Sikhs. He  said, 'Getting away from there is your job, protecting you here [in the  Darbar Sahib complex] is mine.'<sup>60 


BOLEEE SO NIHAAAL SAT SRI AKAL 


That essay is written by a walking corpse, know gurmat and don't bring left-communist thinking into Sikhi. 

Dr Subramanian Swamy speaks on Operation Bluestar and Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. - YouTube
</sup>


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