# Naam Japna



## Sikh80

*Spiritual Experience of Naam Simran*​ 
*http://www.sikhreview.org/july2000/naam.htm*


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## Randip Singh

Some quick comments:

Much of this seems to focus on prayer and meditation etc. If one spends ones life just in prayer and meditation then is he/she not shying away from reality and life and hence truthful living?


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## Sikh80

Naam-Simran and other spritual Practices

Earnest spiritual practices — meditation (_Naam-Simran or Japa_) truthful living, selfless service, selfless love and compassion for all, detachment, devotion, diligent study of the scriptures to know the Truth, Self-inquiry, introspection, Holy Company ("_Saadh-Sangat_"), being content in all situations etc. — performed with conviction, concentration and humility is said to awaken the Divine Grace and Self-knowledge ("_Aatm-Giaan_") within; enabling one learn how to use the nutcracker of intuitive perception to crack open the hard shell of the language and ambiguity to get at the kernels of the underlying Truth in the scriptures. The edict of the SGGS is: without realization of Truth, one cannot link back to his True Being within.

The Gurbani has a simple message: there is One, All-pervading God. He is our own Self within the body. The purpose of human life is to understand and know this Truth while alive, "here" and "now", through self-purification and self-observation. Only then we can take off from the levels of ignorance, falsehood and selfishness (negativity and defilements) into the heights of the state free of _Haume_ (false ego-sense), spontaneity ("_Sahaj_"), perfection in life ("_Jeevan Pada_") etc. Therefore, by abandoning the realm of relativist consciousness ("_Haume_"), and realizing the Truth of our True Nature or godly status ("_Joti-Svaroopa"_), the Teaching of the SGGS (_Gurmat_) urges us to: live a Divine Life by becoming a spiritual Being ("the _Gurmukh_"); make the truthful living the core of one's daily life; make the selfless service to the world our prayer; make selfless love for all the greatest devotion; make compassion and mercy for all the noblest conduct; make unsullied Knowledge, humility and contentment temple withing; enshrine the rosary of meditation in the heart; make harmony, peace and integration within and without; realize that the real Self in me is the Self in all — recognize Oneness with the Universal Spirit; realize and enjoy the true Bliss ("_Anand_"), Peace or Happiness while living in the body (the state of becoming Pure within, living liberated or "_Jeevanmukta_") not after death, and so on. Otherwise of what good is any practice of religion, spirituality or reading of the scriptures? Also, of what good is one's reasoning and intellect?


You have rightly pointed out and Gurmat emphasizes truthful living. It advises Gursikhs to engage in honest work, share their earnings with other members of the community and always remember Akal Purakh. With the blessing of the Guru one may be able to have an understanding and guidance of Gur Shabd for wading through the forces of evil in this tempestuous sea of life called world.

Regarding your '_quick comment_' :Naam simran/jap has to be practicsed along with the other spritual deeds. However in the Above post the author has even given the time frame within which Simran/jap/meditation is to be carried out.It is prescribed in the post one above your post.

Regards


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## Astroboy

The mind feels perfect peace and gets inebriated with the joy of bliss that defy description. This advanced stage of spiritual development is called stage of ‘_SAHAJ_’. From this last stage of _Simran_ first stage of "_GYAN_’ starts and the seeker starts having a number of mystic experiences. But the seeker has to guard against the delusions of this stage viz (1) Ceasing of _Simran_ gives the impression that it is waste of time as there is no worship of God without _Simran_ (2) The seeker is gripped by the sleep of ease called ‘_TANDRA_’ and seeker is deluded to believe that he has reached the final stage of spiritual progress. This writer follows in details the methodology suggested by Late Sant Attar Singh Mastuana and Baba Nand Singh Kleran helped him to come out of first delusion regarding waste of time. Edward Carpenter’s book ‘_A Visit to a Gyani’_ redeemed him from the delusion of ‘_TANDRA_’.

Sikh80 Ji,

Excellent post.


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## Sikh80

http://www.sikhlionz.com/naam.htm


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## Tejwant Singh

Naam Japnah is a mechinism to cultivate Gurmat thought process so that we can thrive by living in the Miri/Piri concept. This Gurmat fulcrum-Sehaj can only be attained by this thought process- our fuel that leads us to the Sikhi Marg.

If Naam Japnah does not create this, then there are a couple of glitches in our mechanisim. 

Tejwant


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## Sikh80

Extracts from Life of a devotee in relation to naam Jaap

Upasak Ka Anteric Jeevan - English Version


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## Archived_Member1

a really excellent thread...  thanks so much for all of the valuable input.


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## spnadmin

Now I admit to being clueless. Upon following the link provided by Sikh80 I discovered the teachings are those of Sree Swami Satyanand Ji Maharaj

Further investigation revealed the following information from the first google hit.
           Shree Swami         Satyanand Ji Maharaj, the founder of Shree Ram Sharnam,  was born in 1861 in           Rawalpindi. He had lost his parents in his early childhood. At the           young age of 17, he took up the company of spiritual teachers of Jain           faith. In 1891, at the age of 30, he joined the Arya Samaj, and           studied Vedanta, Upanishads, and other sacred epics.

Later in the same article I found this

Swami         Ji initiated Sadhna Satsangs for serious devotees to practice detachment, devotion, purity         of body and mind, and healthy living habits. The first Sadhna Satsang was held in       Haridwar, followed by many camps all over India. On November 13, 1960 while         chanting "Ram Naam", Swamiji gave up his physical body after transferring his         Spiritual Powers to his dear disciple Shree Prem Ji Maharaj*,       * and         designating him as the one to replace him. Shree Swamiji’s body was immersed         in the Holy Ganges at   Neel-Dhara near       Haridwar,  which has since become a unique Holy Place         for all Amritvani devotees. 

It is clear that the post is speaking of Nam Jap in a Vedantic tradition that is not Sikh -- and this needs to be made clear. It matters because the Swami in question upon his  death installed a successor. So we are looking at a case of *Guru in Human Form.* 

Seeker80, or anyone, what distinction need we draw between the message posted and Gurmat? Between the guruship of a human being, and the shabd of Sri Guru Granth Sahib?

The following link raises questions in a straightforward way.

Guru Rating Service


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## Sikh80

I have given the address of the site for the purpose of reference. If you read the entire site and then quote from the site and ask the question related to the site it may be improper for me to indulge in any kind of speculation as I did not have theluxury of time and nor the intention of researching the site.

I have given the reference for the purpose of identifying the source. Naam jap is very much prevalent in many eastern religions. In the present write up of mine the extracts of 'devotees life' has been taken that are relevant to this thread. The post talks of the significance of the Jaap.
The benefits ,that accrue to a Hindu devotee, would also accrue to a sikh devotee or anybody else. 

Yes, the only difference is in the object of jap. In case of sikhs it is the 'guru mantra', 'Beej mantra' , Mool Mantra or even entire Gurbani or Naam. It is one's choice. None can interfere in these matters.

There is no specific methodoly followed in the thread under question. We can always take up good things to the extent that suits a sikh. One can continue with the manner of practice that one prefers. No one stops anyone.

Our SGGS ji contains the Bani of many Saints who were not sikhs like Nam dev, Kabir sahib and even Muslims like Sheikh Farid. If the sikhs highest scripture includes the philosphical banis of these saintly personalities it stands to reason that one can read and follow that is as per sikhi. Our Guru sahibaans had a futuristic vision. Many non-sikhs have started following Sikhism for their benefits. Sikhi is universal. In nutshell, we are free to do all that sikhi teaches us and discard that is irrelevant to sikhi. You are free to discard that you feel is not as per sikhi. To me everything is as per sikhi as the post touches at the fringes the significance of Naam jap. It does not teach the method that is to be followed. One cannot standardise the method of naam jaap. Though some are discussed here.


warm regards.


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## Sikh80

*Ajapa Jaap*
​AJAPA JAAP « Khalsa Panth


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## spnadmin

Let's return to Sri Guru Granth Sahib for a moment. A human guru is not only unnecessary, it is actually outside of the framework of Gurmat. What gives Sikhism its futuristic vision is liberation from spiritual dependence on another human being.

If you are a Sikh, then a jumble of spiritual sadhanas is not for you. Because your face is turned toward the Guru.


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## Sikh80

Respected aad2000 ji,

You are cent percent correct in whatever you say and mean. I may be cent percent incorrect in giving a reference of a site that states that it is very important to carry on with nam jaap as a routine. I should have consulted some sikhi site. 

It is almost like this:

1.Guru sahib says that we should be honest and a good human being.

2.Some vedantic site says that we should be clean at heart. 

Both statement will include one another. One cannot be a good human being without being clean at heart.
similarly one cannot be clean at heart without a good human being.

On a wider plane does it matter? My God cannot be other than his God.I do not think that our waheguru and Allah are two entities. It cannot be. 

Again it is stated that you are cent percent correct and I was wrong in that I have stated by posting something form a Vedantic site. Incidentally the science of soul, the theory of Karma and re-incarnations and the their philosphy existed much before sikhism came into being. We have banned Gita and vedas but SGGS ji makes a reference to Vedas at many places. 

At the end I conclude that I shall not post things from Vedantic sites simply because they are vedantic site.

I think there is a communication Gap. 

You cannot mean that 'naam jap' by Vedantic philosphy is different than 'naam jap' of sikhs.Vedantic philosphy is older than sikhism.
In any case it shall be better to put a stop for a while and let us proceed as usual.

I need be forgiven for the sin that I have committed.
In the meantime I thank Kelly_kaur ji for her kind words which were missed by me as these were eclipsced by some post.


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## Sikh80

[SIZE=-1]_Nam Japna_ (Meditation or contemplation on the Name of God)[/SIZE] 



Sikh Missionary Society(U.K.) - Sikhism - Principles - Nam Japna (Meditation or contemplation on the Name of God)


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## spnadmin

Sikh80 ji, 

Please don't jump to the conclusion that you have committed a sin. And anyone is free to post from vedantic sites. You said "Maybe there is a communication gap?" Maybe I was too hard on you. You have a tender soul.

My point is only that clarification is needed when the naam jap is inspired by a human who is regarded as a Satgur. In Sikhi naam jap is inspired by the shabd of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, not a human being. And Vedantic beliefs and practices are older than Sikhism, yes. But Sikhism is not the child or offspring or a subdivision or a sect of Vedantic philosophy. There are major differences. So the distinction needs to be made clear. That is all I am saying. 

But please don't take my comments as directed at you personally. They are nothing more than my understanding of where we need to be focused.


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## Sikh80

*"AJAPPAA JAAP": UNCHANTED CHANT* 

Ajappa Jaap: Unchanted Chant


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## Astroboy

I once asked a 70 year old Sikh gentleman as to what naam is to him?
He said, follow what's written in the Guru Granth Sahib. Har Naam, Har, Har, Har, Har.
I asked him what about Waheguru ? He said its ok to say other names - whatever is written in SGGS is acceptable as Naam Japna - Like Allah, ishvar, prabh, narayan, etc - otherwise they wouldn't appear in the SGGS. 
When I asked him that they could be metaphors, and he said - arguments are all created by mind (manmukhs). 
The Gurmukhs - don't question. They follow simple instructions in the SGGS.

Asked how should one Jap Naam?
His answer is - treat every breath as your last and remember God in that intensity. Don't analyse anything because mind will take charge again and keep you in delusion.


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## Sikh80

He must be a truthful person and not beyond this. Do U think that sikhi needs that kind of Heros.? Pl. give our view point as well.


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## Randip Singh

aad0002 said:


> Now I admit to being clueless. Upon following the link provided by Sikh80 I discovered the teachings are those of Sree Swami Satyanand Ji Maharaj
> 
> Further investigation revealed the following information from the first google hit.
> Shree Swami         Satyanand Ji Maharaj, the founder of Shree Ram Sharnam,  was born in 1861 in           Rawalpindi. He had lost his parents in his early childhood. At the           young age of 17, he took up the company of spiritual teachers of Jain           faith. In 1891, at the age of 30, he joined the Arya Samaj, and           studied Vedanta, Upanishads, and other sacred epics.
> 
> Later in the same article I found this
> 
> Swami         Ji initiated Sadhna Satsangs for serious devotees to practice detachment, devotion, purity         of body and mind, and healthy living habits. The first Sadhna Satsang was held in       Haridwar, followed by many camps all over India. On November 13, 1960 while         chanting "Ram Naam", Swamiji gave up his physical body after transferring his         Spiritual Powers to his dear disciple Shree Prem Ji Maharaj*,       * and         designating him as the one to replace him. Shree Swamiji’s body was immersed         in the Holy Ganges at   Neel-Dhara near       Haridwar,  which has since become a unique Holy Place         for all Amritvani devotees.
> 
> It is clear that the post is speaking of Nam Jap in a Vedantic tradition that is not Sikh -- and this needs to be made clear. It matters because the Swami in question upon his  death installed a successor. So we are looking at a case of *Guru in Human Form.*
> 
> Seeker80, or anyone, what distinction need we draw between the message posted and Gurmat? Between the guruship of a human being, and the shabd of Sri Guru Granth Sahib?
> 
> The following link raises questions in a straightforward way.
> 
> Guru Rating Service



Interesting.


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## Randip Singh

Sikh80 said:


> Our SGGS ji contains the Bani of many Saints who were not sikhs like Nam dev, Kabir sahib and even Muslims like Sheikh Farid. If the sikhs highest scripture includes the philosphical banis of these saintly personalities it stands to reason that one can read and follow that is as per sikhi.
> 
> .



Hmmm.

Please clarify....are you saying if I followed the Bani of only Kabir I would be still a Sikh?


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## Sikh80

You are a sikh [my presumption],sir,. Kindly go thru. the objection raised ,if it is worth the salt. One has no right be judgemental about others unless one is sure as to what one states. It is immaterail if One quotes kabir ji or not. Guru Sahibs have quoted "Prahalad' and 'Hrinkashyap' that would not be heard by christians. You seem to be a sikh. Make your soul understand sikhi. Rest can be forgiven for ignorance. But not a sikhi worth a dime. Pl. let yourself have the privelege that U r entitled to. It is only up to u.It is not very important if I post my views or in books that sell very well evenin US.

You would be a sikh till your conscience permits. I cannot be a judge nor can anyone else. Stop being in a fool's paradise.
I await your reply. You are very much here.
Rgards randip ji.


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## Randip Singh

Sikh80 said:


> You are a sikh [my presumption],sir,. Kindly go thru. the objection raised ,if it is worth the salt. One has a right no be judgemental about others unless one is sure as to what one states. It is immaterail if One quotes kabir or not. Guru Sahibs have quoted "Prahalad' and 'Hrinkashyap' that would not be heard by christians. You seem to be a sikh. Make your soul understand sikhi. Rest can be forgiven for ignorance. But not a sikhi worth a dime. Pl. let yourself have the privelege that U r entitled to. It is only up to u.
> You would be a sikh till your conscience permits. I cannot be a judge nor can anyone else. Stop being in a fool's paradise.
> I await your reply. You are very much here.
> Rgards randip ji.


 
Look. Don't be offended by what I have asked. All I am asking is , is clarification.

You seem to be saying that if one follows the Bani of the Bhagats (or one Bani specifically), one can call oneself a Sikh. Is this what you are saying? If not please clarify?


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## Sikh80

Sikhs are very humble beings. They have been moulded in the concept of Miri /piri. Yes if sikhs follow to the extent as the banis of saints are contained in SGGS ji one should be proud to be a sikh.

Bani of any one which appears in SGGS is most respecable and is to be followed by a sikh.  Hope it makes sense with you and thy idiocyncracies.


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## Randip Singh

Sikh80 said:


> Sikhs are very humble beings. They have been moulded in the concept of Miri /piri. Yes if sikhs follow to the extent as the banis of saints are contained in SGGS ji one should be proud to be a sikh.
> 
> Bani of any one which appears in SGGS is most respecable and is to be followed by a sikh.  Hope it makes sense with you and thy idiocyncracies.



Ok so what you are saying is that if we follow the Bani to the extent that it is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji then it is OK?

The reason why I asked is because someone asked me this question years ago. I used to think that it is OK to follow all the teachings of Namdev and Bhagat Kabir, until (especially Bhagat Kabir) I found things he has stated at total odds with what Sikhi says........there was one of his writings not in Bani where he condems women as evil and to be avoided........I found that at odds with Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

I think what our Guru's have done is taken aspects of various teachings that have common ground and discarded the rest. Wold you concur?


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## Astroboy

There are alot of verses from Kabir and other saints which have been excluded from SGGS - the reason is because they contradict each other and point towards austerities and rituals with more self importance attached to them than towards Akaal Purukh (those verses) are excluded. There are many who follow Kabir Panth and confuse themselves to be Sikhs.


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## Sikh80

Respected Namjap ji,
In India we have 'fire-extinguisher' services named as 'Fire-Brigade'.It is a separate entity altogether. I do respect your role as a Fire Brigade.


Regards once again.


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## Randip Singh

Sikh80 said:


> Respected Namjap ji,
> In India we have 'fire-extinguisher' services named as 'Fire-Brigade'.It is a separate entity altogether. I do respect your role as a Fire Brigade.
> 
> 
> Regards once again.


 
from my above post:



> Ok so what you are saying is that if we follow the Bani to the extent that it is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji then it is OK?
> 
> The reason why I asked is because someone asked me this question years ago. I used to think that it is OK to follow all the teachings of Namdev and Bhagat Kabir, until (especially Bhagat Kabir) I found things he has stated at total odds with what Sikhi says........there was one of his writings not in Bani where he condems women as evil and to be avoided........I found that at odds with Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.
> 
> I think what our Guru's have done is taken aspects of various teachings that have common ground and discarded the rest. Wold you concur?


 
Do you concur?


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## Sikh80

Dear Randip jeo,
ssa,
It is for the third time that you have forced this upon me to comment upon as to why something has been done by Guru sahibaans. I am forced to comment upon as per that I think is correct. You may kindly get the answer from someone else. I refuse to entertain your kiddish request.

It is as per gurbani, that one should not indulge in excessive intellectualisation.[Japu ji sahib] 

_lakh sianapa nal hovey ta ek na chalay Naal,_
_Kiv sachiara hoiyae kiv kure tute Pal,_
_Hukum Rajai Chalna Nanak likhiya naal._

I am a poor creature or we are all poor creature who know 
nothing of His creativity and HIS actions.How can then we comment upon HIS actions. We are no body. The one who judges all cannot be judged by HIS creation.It would simply be a foolish exercise. let us look at something that I have taken from some parallel post and put the things in the perspective.

Guru Nanak was, therefore, the EMBODIMENT of Divine Light: 

'*Gur Nanak Dev Govind roop.' *
_(Basant Mohalla 5, p-1192, Guru Granth Sahib) _
'Guru Nanak is embodiment of the Light of God.' _(Translation of the above_
Further Guru Nanak's body was a platform from which God Himself spoke and delivered His message- Gurbani (Divine Word). God manifested Himself through Guru Nanak: 

'Gur meh aap samoai sabad vartaya.' 
_(Var Malar ki Mohalla 1, p-1279) _
'In the true Guru (Nanak) He installed His Own Spirit Through him, God speaketh Himself.' _(Translation of the above)_
God is in the Guru and Guru is in God. Though God is everywhere and in everybody but His traits are illuminated through the Guru. The Jot (Divine Light) that enshrined Guru Nanak's body and the Primal Jot of God are, therefore, one and the same: 

*'Gur Nanak Nanak har soai.'* 
_(Gaund Mohalla 5, p-865) _
'O Nanak, Jot of Nanak and God are one.' _(Translation of the above) _
Again the Janamsakhis (biographies) reveal that God spoke to Guru Nanak and said: 

*'Mei aad parmeshar aur tu gur parmeshar.' *
'I am the Primal God and thou art Guru God.'_ (Translation of the above) _
_We eulogise so much and now someone ask me to look into the actions and reason out as to why something was done or why it was not. May HE be blessed with something of reality. My guru Sahib is GOD and we exist here because HE wanted us. I shall not even think of answering your question. Let someone else may do it.My conscience does not permit me to say something about my Maalik that is not HIS praise._

_In the end I would close with this line that seems to me appropriate as the thread is about 'Jaap'_

*'Jo jo japai so hoi punit Bhagat bhai lavai man hit.' *
_(Gauri Sukhmani Mohalla 5, p-290) _
'He shall become pure whosoever repeateth His Name With devotion, affection and heartfelt love.' _(Translation of the above) _


_with deep regards to Randip singh jio_


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## International Akaali

Sikh80 i get the sense you get very uncomfortable and stressful when an individual does have any kind of question why is that? He has just asked that do you concur it is not that hard of a question. 

Also I would like to ask you where in SGGS is given this "vidhi" of naam simran/meditation. As is this the way guru sahib has given us is of the rrepitiion of gods name numerous times in a certain position? Please clairify, you have pasted a bunch of articles which i don't have time to read right now so can you please summurize as per teaching of guru granth sahib ji. Thanks.


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## Sikh80

International Akaali said:


> Sikh80 i get the sense you get very uncomfortable and stressful when an individual does have any kind of question why is that? He has just asked that do you concur it is not that hard of a question.
> 
> Also I would like to ask you where in SGGS is given this "vidhi" of naam simran/meditation. As is this the way guru sahib has given us is of the rrepitiion of gods name numerous times in a certain position? Please clairify, you have pasted a bunch of articles which i don't have time to read right now so can you please summurize as per teaching of guru granth sahib ji. Thanks.


 
Akali ji,
ssa
Since you are here I would like that you take up the question of randip ji and answer and guide us.What do you feel. I would also like that you should study the posts when you have the time and also tell us the ''vidhi'' after summarizing from SGGS ji. Incidentally I am attending to some other job.I shall read when I have the time.:advocate:On second thought I felt that you may really be short of time and hence The following 'tuks' are posted from SGGS ji.

hir ko nwmu jpIAY nIiq ] (405-13, Awsw, mÚ 5)
Chant continually the Name of the Lord.
swis swis iDAwie so pRBu iqAwig Avr prIiq ]1] rhwau ] (405-13, Awsw, mÚ 5)
With each and every breath, meditate on God, and renounce other love. ||1||Pause||

ijnw swis igrwis n ivsrY hir nwmW min mMqu ] (319-18, gauVI, mÚ 5)
Those who do not forget the Lord, with each breath and morsel of food, whose minds are filled with the Mantra of the Lord's Name

rwm nwmu myrY pRwix vswey siqgur pris hir nwim smeIAw ]1] (834-13, iblwvlu, mÚ 4)
He has brought the Lord's Name to dwell upon my breath of life; meeting with the True Guru, I am absorbed into the Lord's Name. ||1||

and 
ijcru ivic dMmu hY iqcru n cyqeI ik krygu AgY jwie ] (556-1, ibhwgVw, mÚ 3)
As long as there is breath in the body, he does not remember the Lord; what will he do in the world hereafter?


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## Randip Singh

Sikh80 said:


> Dear Randip jeo,
> ssa,
> It is for the third time that you have forced this upon me to comment upon as to why something has been done by Guru sahibaans. I am forced to comment upon as per that I think is correct. You may kindly get the answer from someone else. I refuse to entertain your kiddish request.


 
This is not kiddish. Not intellectualism but something I want your view on. I am not trying to catch you out.OMG

My opinion is that if we follow only the Bani of Bhagats that is not Sikhi...........Sikhi finds the common threads of Bhagats and highlights those.

Do you agree with this or do you think Bani of Bhagats is the same as Sikhi?


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## Sikh80

randip singh said:


> This is not kiddish. Not intellectualism but something I want your view on. I am not trying to catch you out.OMG
> 
> My opinion is that if we follow only the Bani of Bhagats that is not Sikhi...........Sikhi finds the common threads of Bhagats and highlights those.
> 
> Do you agree with this or do you think Bani of Bhagats is the same as Sikhi?


Dear Randip ji,
Kindly re-phrase your question.It is not clear as to on which you want me to opine.


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## Randip Singh

Sikh80 said:


> Dear Randip ji,
> Kindly re-phrase your question.It is not clear as to on which you want me to opine.


 
Ok we know the Bhagats had other Bani's that were not included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji......yes?

My question is that if we otally followed one of these Bhagat Bani's totally, is that the same as Sikhi?


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## Sikh80

Having no reply from your side I am posting the reply to your question as I could interpret. If you still want to know something please feel free to post the query.
Bani of Granth sahib Maharaj ji contains the Bani of Nanaks/Gurus and the saints. The entire bani when clubbed under the head of 'SGGS ji' is called as ‘sabad –guru’. The ‘sabad guru’ thus includes the Bani of the saints [to the extent that is included in the Granth sahib ji] and Guru sahibs. The extent of bani of these saints that is included in Granth sahib ji also forms the part of ‘sabad-guru’ and is worthy of as much respect as is the other bani of Guru sahibaan. 

I am no one [and so are you] to philosophize as to why only this much portion of the bani of saints is included in SGGS ji and why not the entire bani of the saints have been taken in ‘sabad- guru’ nor should I bother about that part of the Bani of the saints that is not included in the Granth sahib ji.It is also stated that I have fair supposition that all the saints whose bani is recorded in Granth sahib ji Maharaj were having a very high spiritual level that they had their dasam dwar opened. All Of the saints were said to be in communion with Almighty. They were Souls of higher level. 

In the end I shall re-iterate as follows:

The sikhs bear the followings:

*Gurbani is jewel:* 

_Gurbani is the jewel, the treasure of devotion. Singing, hearing and acting upon it, one is enraptured. ||2||_ (page 376) 
*Hold your mind steady while reciting Bani:* 
_Under Guru’s Instructions, hold your mind steady; O my soul, do not let it wander anywhere. One who utters the Bani of the Praises of the Lord God, O Nanak, obtains the fruits of his heart’s desires. ||1||_ (p538) 
*Focus one’s mind on the True Lord:* 
_When the Lord shows His Mercy, He enjoins the mortal to work for the Guru. His pains are taken away, and the Lord’s Name comes to dwell within. True deliverance comes by focusing one’s consciousness on the True Lord. Listen to the Shabad, and the Word of the Guru’s Bani. ||1||_ (p1277) [1]
 

[1]

Bani - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.






E&OE


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## Sikh80

Hope it satisfies and confirm so that I move out to have a cup of tea as it is almost past seven in the evening and I am glued to comp. for more than an hour to attend to your question.
regards


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## Sikh80

Ok.Sir, I shall check tomorrow morning.


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## Randip Singh

Sikh80 said:


> Having no reply from your side I am posting the reply to your question as I could interpret. If you still want to know something please feel free to post the query.
> Bani of Granth sahib Maharaj ji contains the Bani of Nanaks/Gurus and the saints. The entire bani when clubbed under the head of 'SGGS ji' is called as ‘sabad –guru’. The ‘sabad guru’ thus includes the Bani of the saints [to the extent that is included in the Granth sahib ji] and Guru sahibs. The extent of bani of these saints that is included in Granth sahib ji also forms the part of ‘sabad-guru’ and is worthy of as much respect as is the other bani of Guru sahibaan.
> 
> I am no one [and so are you] to philosophize as to why only this much portion of the bani of saints is included in SGGS ji and why not the entire bani of the saints have been taken in ‘sabad- guru’ nor should I bother about that part of the Bani of the saints that is not included in the Granth sahib ji.It is also stated that I have fair supposition that all the saints whose bani is recorded in Granth sahib ji Maharaj were having a very high spiritual level that they had their dasam dwar opened. All Of the saints were said to be in communion with Almighty. They were Souls of higher level.
> 
> In the end I shall re-iterate as follows:
> 
> The sikhs bear the followings:
> 
> *Gurbani is jewel:*
> 
> _Gurbani is the jewel, the treasure of devotion. Singing, hearing and acting upon it, one is enraptured. ||2||_ (page 376)
> *Hold your mind steady while reciting Bani:*
> _Under Guru’s Instructions, hold your mind steady; O my soul, do not let it wander anywhere. One who utters the Bani of the Praises of the Lord God, O Nanak, obtains the fruits of his heart’s desires. ||1||_ (p538)
> *Focus one’s mind on the True Lord:*
> _When the Lord shows His Mercy, He enjoins the mortal to work for the Guru. His pains are taken away, and the Lord’s Name comes to dwell within. True deliverance comes by focusing one’s consciousness on the True Lord. Listen to the Shabad, and the Word of the Guru’s Bani. ||1||_ (p1277) [1]
> [1]
> 
> Bani - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E&OE


 
Ok so I won't get an answer from you. Just say so instead of skating round the topic.

Everyone including YOU is entitled to an opinion, you do not wish to share it fair enough.

For me Bani of Bhagats not in Sri Guru Granth sahib ji does not constitute Sikhi.

PS Enjoy your tea................and please don't call me sir. We are Sikh and are all equals.


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## Sikh80

Does it really matter?Sir,.
It matters a little as to what we believe about the rest of the Bani of the saints.

I am student of physics, I shall study physics. Why should I study chemistry and form any opinion about chemistry.
My prescribed subject is Physics only.
Bye sir.I break for my Tea.It is very cold here.
Regards.


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## Sikh80

The guidance from Akali ji is awaited.


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## International Akaali

Sikh80: The answer to randip singhs question is this as per my understanding:

Bhagat bani which has been given gurgaddi should be called gurbani. There bani which is present in shri guru granth sahib ji is gurbani. Remember bani is a word that means spoken or said by first person of whoever the individual is and not the way we say in our daily lives :whisling: or :advocate:. In this case bhagat ji's bani outside of shri guru granth sahib ji can never be considered gurbani as guru sahib didnt give that authority of gurbani to the bani of bhagats outside of guru granth sahib ji. 

We do not know why that the bani outside of guru granth sahib ji but however there was a reason as to why it was or wasn't. We can't come to that understanding because we do not need too. Gurbani is given us the ultimate path to reaching the stage of sach khand and being one with akaal purkh. If we come to say "oh why wasn't this bani of bhagats included", then what are we as individuals trying to say that guru sahib made a mistake that he didn't include it in gur shabad? No one would ever say that and we can't come to an understand as to why, The bani of bhagats which go in line with the sidhant of sikhi which guru nanak sahib created is included in shri guru granth sahib ji and the ones that are not, are not included it is very simple concept. So our ultimate guru is not the bhagat himself, or guru tegh bahadur only, or guru nanak dev ji only etc, our guru is all those bhagat's, mahapurkhs and guru's which have there bani in guru granth sahib which makes guru granth sahib ji as our ultimate guru which gives us the spirtual path. 



I dont have much time right now so i will post some other time on the naam topic. Have been very busy 

Regards


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## Sikh80

International Akali ji,
SSA
welcome to the forum bhai sahib.
Thanks for putting your view point on the bani of the Bahgats. You have very rightly put your view .Your reply is very illumininating and we shall interact more frequently when you are able to spend more time with us here.

I had replied Mr.Randip ji in the following manner[vide link=36]



> Bani of Granth sahib Maharaj ji contains the Bani of Nanaks/Gurus and the saints. The entire bani when clubbed under the head of 'SGGS ji' is called as ‘sabad –guru’. The ‘sabad guru’ thus includes the Bani of the saints [to the extent that is included in the Granth sahib ji] and Guru sahibs. The extent of bani of these saints that is included in Granth sahib ji also forms the part of ‘sabad-guru’ and is worthy of as much respect as is the other bani of Guru sahibaan.
> 
> I am no one [and so are you] to philosophize as to why only this much portion of the bani of saints is included in SGGS ji and why not the entire bani of the saints have been taken in ‘sabad- guru’ nor should I bother about that part of the Bani of the saints that is not included in the Granth sahib ji.It is also stated that I have fair supposition that all the saints whose bani is recorded in Granth sahib ji Maharaj were having a very high spiritual level that they had their dasam dwar opened. All Of the saints were said to be in communion with Almighty. They were Souls of higher level."[unquote ]
> 
> Your post is ,ofcourse, very nicely worded on account of your wider exposure to Bani. WE have to learn many things from you and shall be seeking guidance as and when you are available.
> 
> Warm Regards.
> E&OE
> [one can do without smilies unless there is a strong urge otherwise.]


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## spnadmin

International Akaali ji, 
I also hope you find more time to speak on these subjects in the future. You teach in a very clear way.

Not to anyone individually, but just my  personal reaction 


> I am no one [and so are you] to philosophize as to why only this much portion of the bani of saints is included in SGGS ji and why not the entire bani of the saints have been taken in ‘sabad- guru’ nor should I bother about that part of the Bani of the saints that is not included in the Granth sahib ji.It is also stated that I have fair supposition that all the saints whose bani is recorded in Granth sahib ji Maharaj were having a very high spiritual level that they had their dasam dwar opened. All Of the saints were said to be in communion with Almighty. They were Souls of higher level."[unquote ]


How the bani were recorded in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj is a matter of historical fact not a matter of philosophy. And that is that. The conversations of Guru Arjan Dev ji, Bhai Gurdas, the others were not recorded-- so we cannot know their thinking, their philosophy, or how the jyote of the Guru found its way to influence the final decision. And perhaps that is a good thing. Otherwise squabbling would never end. 

The works of the baghats and sants that are not included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib may be of high spiritual quality. So too may be some of the poetry of other Hindu and Buddhist spirits over centuries. There are those that speak of the Divine Consciousness and our relationship with Divine Consciousness in a way that is compatible with Sikhi. However, these works were not the Guru when Gobind Singh ji proclaimed where to find Guruji. They are works that lie outside of the Shabd Guru. Such sants, baghats, poets can lift us up, and we benefit when we read them. But they speak outside of the Shabd of the Guru.


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## Sikh80

Akali ji your post on Naam is awaited.


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## Sikh80

Naam literally means, _the Name_. 


kindly follow the link for elaboration.


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## Sikh80

This Essence / Naam / Sabad / Logus is formless, colourless, and featureless but, as said, is present in all creation. There is no plant, no creature, in what it is not. The Earth and other heavenly bodies exist because there is Naam in this universe and when God withdraws this Naam from this Universe, there is natural calamities (Parloh / Mahaparloh) all over the universe and this is the time that the universe perishes and all the living creatures perish. Being so, the Essence can’t be seen or visualised by the mind. We can see only the physical dimension of Reality in God’s Creation – mountains, plants, trees, creatures etc. Thus the Outer Shell of Reality holds us (the appearances delude us) and we cannot penetrate deeper to experience the all pervading Reality. The physical dimensions of Reality (the outer shell) is always in flux; it keeps changing. While birth, death, creation, destruction etc. occur in the physical dimensions of creation, the Essence, being _Sat_ (Sat-Naam) never changes, it transcends space and time.


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## Sikh80

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satnam


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## Sikh80

t.b.contd..............


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## Sikh80

t.b.cont


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## Sikh80

*What is the purpose of repeating Paath over and over again if you don’t understand it? Is Nam Simran (saying Waheguru repeatedly) more important than reading Gurbani? Which one is more useful in our life and why?*
*(a) Reciting Paath:*
:Our mind knows what is right and what is wrong but still it leads us to do wrong things. How can one be saved if the person himself chooses the path? (Page 1376 Guru Granth Sahib)


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## Sikh80

“I must also know what I read.” When he knows what he reads, he will start practicing it, making his own life happy and spreading happiness around him.


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## Sikh80

Therefore, _Sabad_, the Divine Word, the Divine Name and NAAM are synonymous with the True Reality. Says Guru Nanak, in _Asa-di-Var_:
God created Himself
And assumed a Name
Second, besides Himself,
He created Nature.
Seated in Nature He watches 
With delight what He creates. _Rag Asa_ (SGGS-463)


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## Sikh80

The word ‘_Sabad_’ has also been used by Guru Nanak in the sense of teachings of the Guru (_Gurbani_). The Guru gives the Divine Word, or the Divine Name, to his disciple and tells him to contemplate on it. 
O my friend, my divine Guru!
Set alight His Name within me;
The Name taught by my Guru
Is the help of my soul;
The praise of the Lord is my vocation;
Happy, most happy are the Lord’s people,
Who have faith in the Lord,
Who thirst for Him,
And with the gift of His Name
Their thirst is slaked.


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## Sikh80

The mystical approach deals with the practical ways of contemplating on the Divine Name or the Divine Word.  Guru Ram Das, the Fourth Guru says –
_Gur satgur ka jo sikh akhae_
He who deems himself a Sikh of the True Guru
Should rise betimes and contemplate the Name.
In the early hours of the morning.
He should rise and bathe
And cleanse his soul in a tank of nectar,
And as he repeats the Name the Guru taught him.
Thus he washes away the sins of his soul. [_Gauri, Var_, SGGS-305]


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## Sikh80

There is no value that is more valuable than the Name of God. The Divine Name is a priceless wealth, it is eternal and True. It cannot be destroyed by fire, death or any other means.
Name is the potency of God, who, in the pre-creation stage, existed without a Name. It is the agency through which God Creates. It is the spirit of God and the enlightened and purifier of the soul. Name has created everything in this universe.
Guru Nanak emphasizes on the recitation of the Divine Name (_NAAM_) which stands for God and His Creative Transformative Power and is the most powerful and effective means of attaining identity with the Divine Being. For attuning with God, _Simran_, or remembrance, and repeating of the Divine Name, or invocation, enables the disciple to reach that stage of absorption where he finds himself in His presence; it is a simple yet very efficacious method for internal spiritual growth of the disciple and supplies inexhaustible stores of energy and vitality for concentration and paves the way for reaching the Lord – the ultimate objective of one’s life.
http://www.sikhreview.org/april2002/naam.htm


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## Sikh80

Kundalni of no use without Naam

The Yogi draws the breath upwards, and opens the Tenth Gate.[905-7]
He practices inner cleansing and the six rituals of purification.
But without the Lord's Name, the breath he draws is useless. ||3||
The fire of the five passions burns within him; how can he be calm?
The thief is within him; how can he taste the taste?
One who becomes Gurmukh conquers the body-fortress. ||4||
With filth within, he wanders around at places of pilgrimage.
His mind is not pure, so what is the use of performing ritual cleansings?
He carries the karma of his own past actions; who else can he blame? 
He does not eat food; he tortures his body.
Without the Guru's wisdom, he is not satisfied.
The self-willed manmukh is born only to die, and be born again. ||6||
Go, and ask the True Guru, and associate with the Lord's humble servants.
Your mind shall merge into the Lord, and you shall not be reincarnated to die again.
Without the Lord's Name, what can anyone do? ||7||
Silence the mouse scurrying around within you.
Serve the Primal Lord, by chanting the Lord's Name.
Nanak, God blesses us with His Name, when He grants His Grace. ||8||5||


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## Sikh80

To put it in simple language, the _Shabad_ or _Naam_ is akin to a subtle bridge between the Source and His material universe. One must cross this bridge to go back to Divine Home ("_Nij Ghar_" or Pure Self) within. This is to say that, without Realizing the Essence of the _Shabad_ (_Naam_, _Bani_, etc.) within, one can not link with his True Self. But, as the Gurbani says, rare is the one who, by becoming a _Gurmukh_ (Spiritual Being), reflects on the True _Shabad_ (_Naam_) within. Rest of us — stumbling around in delusion — search for It in the gross objects of the mirage-like fleeting, perishable or changeful world! 

Tanu manu khoje taa naaou paae: Search your body and mind, and find the Name (sggs 110). 
Raam naam aatam mahi sodhai: He searches for the Divine Name within his own soul (sggs 274). 
Vadabhaagee gharu khojiaa paaiaa naam nidhaan: By great good fortune, I searched my body, and found the treasure of the Naam within (sggs 757). 
Kaaiaa nagaree sabade khoje naam navam nidhi paaee: One who searches the village of the body, through the Shabad, obtains the nine treasures of the Naam within (sggs 910). 
Bin Shabdai Pir na paayeeai birthaa janam gavaayi: Without the Shabad, one does not find her Divine Beloved, and her life wastes away in vain (sggs 31). 
Hari jeeyu saachaa saachee Bani Shabad milaavaa hoyi: The Dear God is True, and True is the Word of His Bani. Through the Shabad, we merge with Him (sggs 32). 
Naamai te sabh oopjai bhaayee nayi visariyai mar jaayi: Naam is the creator of everything. To forsake Naam is death (sggs 603). 
Gur kai sabde aap pashaanai: Realize the Self through the Shabad (sggs 224). 
Nanak naam na veesarai shootai sabad kamaae: O Nanak, do not forget the Naam; without practicing and Realizing the Shabad, you will not be liberated (sggs 62). 
Gurmukhi saach sabad beechharai koi: Rare is the one who, by becoming a Gurmukh (Spiritual Being), reflects on the True Shabad (sggs 946).

Sikhism: Reflections On Gurbani


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## Sikh80

srb rog kw AauKdu nwmu ] (274-18, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
The Naam is the panacea, the remedy to cure all ills.


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## Sikh80

puMn dwn jp qp jyqy sB aUpir nwmu ] (401-2, Awsw, mÚ 5)
Donations to charity, meditation and penance - above all of them is the Naam.


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## Sikh80

jyqw kIqw qyqw nwau ] (4-9, jpu, mÚ 1)
The created universe is the manifestation of Your Name.

ivxu nwvY nwhI ko Qwau ] (4-10, jpu, mÚ 1)
Without Your Name, there is no place at all.


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## Sikh80

nwmu inDwnu soeI pwey ik®pw kry pRBu soie ]3] (405-5, Awsw, mÚ 5)
He alone obtains the treasure of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, unto whom God shows His Mercy. ||3||


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## Sikh80

Kt qursI muiK bolxw mwrx nwd kIey ] (16-12, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
chanting with one's mouth, the spicy flavors are savored. All these spices have been made from the Sound-current of the Naad.

Gr mMdr KusI nwm kI ndir qyrI prvwru ] (16-19, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is the pleasure of houses and mansions. Your Glance of Grace is my family, Lord.


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## Sikh80

Enw AMdir nwmu inDwnu hY nwmo prgtu hoie ] (17-7, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
The Treasure of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, is within them, and through the Naam, they are radiant and famous.


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## Sikh80

nwau pUjIAY nwau mMnIAY AKMfu sdw scu soie ]3] (17-7, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
They worship the Naam, and they believe in the Naam. The True One is forever Intact and Unbroken. ||3||


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## Sikh80

guru pauVI byVI gurU guru qulhw hir nwau ] (17-13, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
The Guru is the Ladder, the Guru is the Boat, and the Guru is the Raft to take me to the Lord's Name.


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## Sikh80

eyku sbdu bIcwrIAY jw qU qw ikAw hoir ]1] rhwau ] (17-18, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
I dwell upon the One Word of the Shabad. You are mine-what else do I need? ||1||Pause||


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## Sikh80

iprurIswlU qw imlY jw gur kw sbdu suxI ]2] (17-19, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
We meet with our Beloved, the Source of Joy, when we listen to the Word of the Guru's Shabad."||2||


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## Sikh80

nwau iDAweIAY nwau mMgIAY nwmy shij smwie ]1] (26-5, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
Meditate on the Name, worship the Name, and through the Name, you shall be absorbed in intuitive peace and poise. ||1||


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## Sikh80

ijnI gurmuiK cwiKAw shjy rhy smwie ]1] rhwau ] (26-6, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
Those Gurmukhs who have tasted it remain intuitively absorbed in the Lord. ||1||Pause||


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## Sikh80

kwieAw ngrI sbdy Kojy nwmu nvM iniD pweI ]22] (910-1, rwmklI, mÚ 3)
One who searches the village of the body, through the Shabad, obtains the nine treasures of the Naam. ||22||


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## Sikh80

Top of Page​


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## Sikh80

*Jeevan Mukt*
It is the stage that is intended to be reached by a sikh who is engaged in naam simran.

contd.
JIVANMUKTA, in SIKHISM the ideal and aim or objective of man`s spiritual life. 

Kindly refer the link.


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## Sikh80

1. Wazir SINGH, Humanism of Cum Nnnnk. Delhi, 1977
2. Sher Singh, The Philosophy of Sikhism. 1.alien-, 194-1
3. Dharain Singh, Sikh Theology of liberation, Delhi, 1991. ^. Shivkumar, Muni, The Dor.tiive of Liberation in Indian Religions. Panchkula, 1981

kindly follow the link.


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## Sikh80

It is also stated that Recitation Of Bani is also equal to Naam Jaaap.


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## Sikh80

** Naam


http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/SearchView/CB0ADE614E58A55687256AA700812203!OpenDocument


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## Sikh80

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/SearchView/CB0ADE614E58A55687256AA700812203!OpenDocument
 Please refer for wide collection Of Articles on Naam.


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## Sikh80

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/SearchView/CB0ADE614E58A55687256AA700812203!OpenDocument


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## Sikh80

http://www.maboli.com/seva/sikh_review/1995/november_95/sajjeNaam.htm
The Unknowable Revealed Through Naam 

Giani Kulwinder Singh*


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## Sikh80

http://www.maboli.com/seva/sikh_review/1995/october_95/sajjeNaam.htm
*God’s Immaculate Name as Healer* 

S.S. Gyani*


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## Sikh80

*Method of Nam - Simran (Meditation) -*

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/SearchView/9E167CCE2A8EC59C87257033005A80E5!OpenDocument


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## Sikh80

One should always use one's tongue for meditation and praising the bounties of the Almighty. It should not be used for evil speaking, back-biting, uttering hateful words, or bestowing good fortunes and curses.

"Rasna Japti Toohee Toohee" (1215)

"Rasna Japae Na Nam Til Til Kar Katiai" (1363)

"Rasna Gun Gopal Nidh Gayan.

Shant Sehaj Rehus Mun Upjio Saglae Dookh Palayan" (174)
http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/SearchView/9E167CCE2A8EC59C87257033005A80E5!OpenDocument


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## Sikh80

_Pl. Refer the above two posts and also follow the link for detailed information_
_Concentration on Akal Purakh and a stage of oneness with Him cannot be achieved unless one shuns attachment with the worldy materialistic things._

"Drisatmaan Hai Sagal Mithena. Ek Mangao Daan Gobind Sant Rena" (1083)

"Jo Deesai So Sagal Binasae Jio Badar Kee Chaaee.

Jan Nanak Jag Janeo Mithia Rehio Ram Sarnaee" (1204)

"Eh Jag Dhoae Ka Pahar Tai Sacha Maniea Kih Beechaar" (1187)

"Re Nar Eh Sachi Jie Dhaar Sagal Japat Hai Jaisae Supna Binsat Lagat Na Bar" (633)

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/SearchView/9E167CCE2A8EC59C87257033005A80E5!OpenDocument


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## Sikh80

Experince and Advices Of Some Practitioners.
Pl. Follow the link below:

Peace will prevail in this universe when all the human beings will get up early in the morning, take bath, medidate on The Divine Name recite holy hymns, and sing praises.

"Gur Satgur Ka Jo Sikh Akhae Su Bhaalke Uth Har Naam Dhiawae.

Udam Kare Bhalke Parbhati Ishnaan Kare Amrit Sar Nahvae.

Updes Guru Har Har Jap Jape Sabh Kilbikh Paap Dokh Leh Javae.

Phir Cherae Diwas Gurbani Gavae Behndia Uthdia Har Naam Dhiavae.

Jo Sas Giraas Dhiae Mera Har Har So Gursikh guru Mun Bhaivae.

Jisno Dyal Hovae Mera Swami Tis Gursikh Guru Updes Sunnave.

Jan Nanak Dhoor Mangae Tis Gursikh Kee Jo Aaap Jape Aurah Naam Japavae" (305)

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/SearchView/9E167CCE2A8EC59C87257033005A80E5!OpenDocument


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## Sikh80

http://www.maboli.com/seva/sikh_review/1995/november_95/sajjeNaam.htm


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## Sikh80

http://www.maboli.com/seva/sikh_review/1995/november_95/sajjeNaam.htm


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## Sikh80

http://www.maboli.com/seva/sikh_review/1995/november_95/sajjeNaam.htm
The Unknowable Revealed Through Naam 

Giani Kulwinder Singh*


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## Sikh80

May be one day we are also Blessesd with naam
Re: Naam


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## Sikh80

hir hir nwmu Apwr AmolI ] (822-3, iblwvlu, mÚ 5)
The Name of the Lord, Har, Har, is infinite and priceless.
 pRwn ipAwro mnih ADwro cIiq icqvau jYsy pwn qMbolI ]1] rhwau ] (822-3, iblwvlu, mÚ 5)
It is the Beloved of my breath of life, and the Support of my mind; I remember it, as the betel leaf chewer remembers the betel leaf.


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## Sikh80

rwm nwmu myrY pRwix vswey siqgur pris hir nwim smeIAw ]1] (834-13, iblwvlu, mÚ 4)
He has brought the Lord's Name to dwell upon my breath of life; meeting with the True Guru, I am absorbed into the Lord's Name. ||1||


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## Sikh80

Name is support of the Devotee

jn kI tyk hir nwmu itkeIAw ] (834-14, iblwvlu, mÚ 4)
The Name of the Lord is the only Support of His humble servants.


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## Sikh80

Merger into Name of Lord
Bgiq Bgiq krqy hir pwieAw jw hir hir hir hir nwim smeIAw ]7] (837-5]
[Worshipping, worshipping Him with devotion, I found the Lord, and then I merged into the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, Har. ||7|]|


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## Sikh80

Name is enshrined

scw nwmu sdw hY inrmlu gur sbdI mMin vswvixAw ]1] rhwau ] (126-16, mwJ, mÚ 3)
The True Name is eternally pure and immaculate. Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, it is enshrined within the mind. ||1||Pause||


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## Sikh80

*CONCEPT OF NAM (DIVINE NAME):*
What is the Concept of Naam


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## Sikh80

Yes, the present Teachers Of Vedanta even do not hesitate to address GOD by the Name of DRUMSTICK. But it was vedantic cult where there is no authority to control such incidences. Sikhs are pretty organised in these matters.]


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## Sikh80

"Kirtam nam kathai terei jihba
Satnam tera pra purbla."
(Maru Mohalla 5, p-1083)


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## Sikh80

To be contd...


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## Sikh80

5) Gurbani (Divine Word) itself is NAM.

a) Gurbani itself is Nam:
"Gurmukh bani nam hai, nam ridai vasaie." (Sarang ki Var-pauri, p-1239)

b) The term 'Nam Japo' means to remember God and to invoke His presence in one's conscious. All modes of meditation take the devotee into the presence of God, but according to Gurbani, Hari Kirtan, the musical recitation of Gurbani, is the super form of meditation. It invokes one's consciousness to the maximum level, into the presence of God:

"Har kirat utam Nam hai vich kaljug karni sar." (Kanre ki Var Mohalla 4, p-1314)

c) The Gurmat explains that the recitation of the word 'Har Har..' is Nam Japna:

"Har har har har nam hai gurmukh pavai koei." (Kanre ki Var Mohalla 4, p-1313)


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## Sikh80

contd........
]d) Salvation cannot be attained without Nam. In other words anything that delivers salvation is Nam. Since Gurbani delivers salvation, therefore, Gurbani is Nam:

"Sachi bani mithi amritdhar
Jinh piti tis mokhdwar."
(Malar Mohalla 1, p-1275)

'The True Bani is sweet-nectar
Whosoever is devoted to it, attaineth salvation." (Translation of the above)

"Sachi bani sion dhare piyar
Tako pavai mokhdwar."
(Dhanasari Mohalla 1, p-661)

Whosoever devoted to Eternal Bani
Will get deliverance."
(Translation of the above)

It is therefore, very clear and evident that any form of recitation of Gurbani, may be simple reading with attention and devotion or meditation on any Sabad of Gurbani or Kirtan of Gurbani, is fully deemed as Nam Japna (meditation on Nam), that is to invoke the presence of God in one's conscious.

It may be mentioned here that there are small sects who mislead the innocent Sikhs on the subject of Gurbani and Nam. These sect leaders very emphatically say to the innocent Sikhs," Gurbani says that one must meditate on Nam, but Gurbani is not Nam. Come on, we will give you Nam." Then they whisper in their ears some broken sentence of Gurbani which they call Nam, and warn them not to tell any one; if ever they disclose this Nam to any one, some curse will fall on them. In this way they run their cults (shops). Thus, innocent Sikhs and others are lured and misled into their fold. The Sikhs should, therefore, be very careful from such sects. Those who try to say that Gurbani is not Nam, they are either misguided or are deceitful. According to Gurmat (Guru's teaching), Gurbani is everything:

Gurbani is Nam:

"Gurmukh bani Nam hai.."
(Sarang ki Var-pauri, p-1239)

Gurbani is Guru:
"Bani Guru, Guru hai Bani..."
(Nat Mohalla 4, p-982)

to be contd.........


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## Sikh80

Gurbani is Nirankar:"Wauh wauh bani nirankar hai Tis jiwad avar na koi."
(Slok Mohalla 3, p-515)

'Wauh wauh Bani is the Formless One
There is none as great as He."
(Translation of the above)

Gurbani is every Nad and Ved:
"Sabh nad beid gurbani
Man rata sarang pani."
(Ramkli Mohalla 1, p-879)

It is, therefore, Nam that ultimately leads a person to Eternal Bliss. For God consciousness, one must come in contact with Nam, but without Guru one cannot attain Nam and would wander away in the darkness.

"Were a hundred moons to appear
Were a thousand suns to arise
There would still be utter darkness
If there were no Guru."
(Asa di Var, Mohalla 2, p-463)

"Let no one in the world remain in doubt
That it could ever be possible to be saved without the Guru." (Gaund Mohalla 5, p-864)

"In this age of falsehood, Nam lieth hidden Though the Lord filleth all hearts,

The Jewel of Nam becomes manifest in the hearts of only those Who resort to the Guru's refuge."
(Parbhati Mohalla 3, p-1334)

"All repeat God's Name, yet He is not attained But when through the Grace of the Guru
God comes to reside in the mind
It is only then one's life becomes fruitful." (Gujri Mohalla 3, p-491)

This article taken from book published by Sikh Missionary Center
P.O. Box 02664
Detroit, Michigan 48202


BIBLIOGRAPHY

1. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee
2. Bhai Gurdas- Varan
3. Bhai Vir Singh- Santhia Sri Guru Granth Sahib 4. Dr. Kartar Singh- Sikh Fundamentals
5. Prof. Sahib Singh- Jiwan Birtant of the Gurus

**************
the above article has been sourced from Sikhnet.The URL is not with me.Nonetheless, any one can Goggle it out.


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## Sikh80

By linking ndmjapand to the other two precepts, SIKHISM declares that the basis of wholesome living is Godcentredness, compulsions and obligations of physical existence notwithstanding.

kindly follow the link.


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## Sikh80

GURU ARJAN (GG, 814)


kindly follow the link.


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## Sikh80

1. Sabaddrth Sri Guru. Granth Sahib. AMRITSAR, 1969
2. Jodh SINGH, GURMAT Nimaya. LAHORE, 1932
3. Sher Singh, Philosophy of Sikhism. Lahore, 1944
4. Avtar Singh, Ethics of the Sikhs. PATIALA, 1970
5. Nripinder Singh, The Sikh Moral Tradition. Delhi, 1990


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## Sikh80

NAM JAPANA, KIRAT KARNI, VAND CHHAKANA | The Sikh Encycloped


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## Sikh80

*Naam Japo*


http://pedia.nodeworks.com/N/NA/NAA/Naam_Japo/


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## Sikh80

REFERENCES

1. Guru Granth Sahib.

2. Bachitar Natak, part A-6 (33).

3. Galloway : The Philosophy of Religion, Edinburgh, 1915, p. 654.

4. See, Niharranjan Ray : The Sikh Gurus and The Sikh Society, Punjabi University, Patiala, 1970.

5. Sharma, I. C. : The Ethics of Buddhism, Ethical Philosophies of India, p. 169.

6. Smith Huston : The Religion of Man, New York, 1959, p. 214.

7. Stace, W. T. : Mysticism and Philosophy, p. 126


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## Sikh80

*Stage I*



Sikh Missionary Society(U.K.) - Articles - Name of My Lord


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## Sikh80

*Naam-Simran**: A Discourse*


*Kulwant Singh* (USA) *​
_* Email: ksingh_india@yahoo.com_
_"Naam Simran Bhakti"_ in Sikhism by Gurbax Singh. Published by Hemkunt Press. A-78 Naraina Indl. Area-I. New Delhi. 110028.


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## Amarpal

[
Dear Sikh80 Ji,

Will you please elaborate 

(i) what indicates the evolution of person from normal state of mind to Dharna, from Dharna to Dhyan and from Dhyan to Samadhi.

(ii) What makes you accept or to think that breath brings mind into silence and is a bridge between body and mind.

(iii)To the extent I know, Guru Sahib has not suggested Pranayaama as a tool for metal purity. To me Pranayaama is good for the body. Beyond that I could not create any direct link between breathing and mind or spirituality. Please note I make a distiction between Buddhi and Maan, Buddhi is part of the body and Maan i.e. mind is the soft output of a functioning brain.

I wish to learn more on the above three points from you and from any one who reads this post

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh


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## Sikh80

Amarpal said:


> [
> Dear Sikh80 Ji,
> 
> Will you please elaborate
> 
> (i) what indicates the evolution of person from normal state of mind to Dharna, from Dharna to Dhyan and from Dhyan to Samadhi.
> 
> (ii) What makes you accept or to think that breath brings mind into silence and is a bridge between body and mind.
> 
> (iii)To the extent I know, Guru Sahib has not suggested Pranayaama as a tool for metal purity. To me Pranayaama is good for the body. Beyond that I could not create any direct link between breathing and mind or spirituality. Please note I make a distiction between Buddhi and Maan, Buddhi is part of the body and Maan i.e. mind is the soft output of a functioning brain.
> 
> I wish to learn more on the above three points from you and from any one who reads this post
> 
> With love and respect for all.
> 
> Amarpal Singh


 
I shall try to take up your questions as follows.It is ,sometimes, good to enter into theoretical discussions.

Q1. 

It is a subjective assesment of the seeker to find out whether he has reached the stage of meditation by achieving concentration. There are many points of overlap between these stages. All these methods are primarily meant to achieve the control Of Mind that is considered very difficult.It has been stated in Gurbani as well.

sMjogu ivjogu duie kwr clwvih lyKy Awvih Bwg ] (6-19, jpu, mÚ 1)
Union with Him, and separation from Him, come by His Will. We come to receive what is written in our destiny.

Conquering the mind is like conquering the world.


AweI pMQI sgl jmwqI min jIqY jgu jIqu ] (6-17, jpu, mÚ 1)
See the brotherhood of all mankind as the highest order of Yogis; conquer your own mind, and conquer the world.


Dharna and Dhyan are the intermittent stage while samadhi[tadi] is the final stage of concentration.

mnu bYrwgI Gir vsY sc BY rwqw hoie ] (21-6, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
If the mind becomes balanced and detached, and comes to dwell in its own true home, imbued with the Fear of God,
It is suggested that one may refer various web-sites that deals exclusively with Yoga of Meditation. One may refer Brahma Kumaris or the site of swami Sivananda. These are non-sikhi sites rather Vedantic.

2.
Regarding the second it is again a subjective experience. There is nothing as to what I feel about the breath helping the control Of mind. One may devise other means. It suits someone so it is ok. One need not follow this method. There is nothing specified about this i.e how to get perfect concentration.

3.
Guru Sahibaan have not recommended 'Pranayam'. I will not be knowing this as the definition of the term 'Pranayam' varies with the context.I do not think that this word has appeared in Gurbani. However, there are mentions Of ida, Pingla and Sushmana in Granth sahib. It deals with Kundalini Jagran and As per the web-reports It is to say that many American Sikhs practice yoga of Pranayam. Pranayam especially Anolom-Vilom[ alternate breathing from right or left nostril]is recommended by the Yoga teachers for the cleaning of mind and body [Some teachers Of Yoga have also stated that clinical depression can be controlled by it]. There are other exercises in Pranayam as well .These can be learnt by spending time . No lecture or writing will help. 

Guru sahibs have mentioned about Kundalini Jagran in Granth Sahib. However, it is not recommended anywhere. Further it has also not been condemned anywhere in Gurbani. It is stated that Kundalni jagran stage is achieved by attending the 'sangats' and doing keertan of lord's praise etc. Kundalni Jagran is a must to be in Turia awastha. It is the stage when the Tenth door is stated to be opened.

Koil@E kpwtu qw mnu ThrweI ]1] rhwau dUjw ]5] (738-3, sUhI, mÚ 5)
When the door is opened, then the mind is restrained. ||1||Second Pause||5||

and

hir jIau guPw AMdir riK kY vwjw pvxu vjwieAw ] (922-11, rwmklI, mÚ 3)
The Lord placed the soul to the cave of the body, and blew the breath of life into the musical instrument of the body.
vjwieAw vwjw paux nau duAwry prgtu kIey dsvw gupqu rKwieAw ] (922-11, rwmklI, mÚ 3)
He blew the breath of life into the musical instrument of the body, and revealed the nine doors; but He kept the Tenth Door hidden.
gurduAwrY lwie BwvnI ieknw dsvw duAwru idKwieAw ](922-12, rwmklI, mÚ 3)
Through the Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, some are blessed with loving faith, and the Tenth Door is revealed to them.

AT the end I shall be grateful if you could kindly tell us the methods that are recommended by guru sahibs in Granth sahib.
*Regards.*

e&oe


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## Sikh80

The process of cleaning by Pranayam through alternate breathing techniques are referred as 'Nadi Shodhan' as per Vedantic philosphy and in Raj Yoga. You may kindly refer to Raj yoga by Swami Vivekananda. It is a nice book and deals with almost all the questions that you have raised. The book was available at Amazon , last time when I checked. If you need I can help you out in locating this book in India. 
I could come across this line that speaks of breath control. It is thus concluded that methos of breadth control was also known at those times. Since it has not been specifically condemned here one can draw the necessary conclusions subject to it not being discarded elsewhere in the scriptures.

Kycr BUcr qulsI mwlw gur prswdI pwieAw ] (973-8, rwmklI, Bgq nwmdyv jI)
Control of the breath and positioning of the tongue, focusing at the third eye and wearing malas of tulsi beads, are all obtained through Guru's Grace.
*Regards Sir,*

_P.S._
I know my knowledge is very limited and is not meant for clarifying the doubts of a very senior member from whom we have to learn a lot.
I need be corrected in all that I have stated in this and the post above.


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## Sikh80

Respected Amarpal ji,
Following is the reference Of Raja Yoga in Granth sahib. Guru Arjan dev ji is being eulogised by the bhat [poet] that Guru Arjan dev ji knows the Art of Yoga [merger] and meditation.It gives a perfect clue that Kundalni jagran was adopted by the Guru Sahib as well. However, not being sure on this, I would not be tempted to speculate that I am right.


ਗੁਰ ਅਰਜੁਨ ਕਲ੍ਯ੍ਯੁਚਰੈ ਤੈ ਰਾਜ ਜੋਗ ਰਸੁ ਜਾਣਿਅਉ ॥੭॥ 
गुर अरजुन कल्युचरै तै राज जोग रसु जाणिअउ ॥७॥ 
Gur arjun kal&shy;yucẖrai ṯai rāj jog ras jāṇi&shy;a&shy;o. ||7|| 
So speaks KALL the poet: O Guru Arjun, You know the sublime essence of Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success. ||7||


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## Sikh80

Respected Amarpal ji,

I wanted to place this in the above posts but I have edited them so many times that I thought it ok. to post this separately.Here also There is a specific mention Of the Tenth Gate.

cMcl cpl buiD kw Kylu ] (152-3, gauVI, mÚ 1)
- the body is the play-thing of the fickle and unsteady intellect.
nau drvwjy dsvw duAwru ] (152-3, gauVI, mÚ 1)
It has nine doors, and then there is the Tenth Gate.

[E&OE]
Sorry the information is not properly structured.


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## Sikh80

I shall be posting other references from SGGS ji regarding Dasam Dwar as and when I come across more lines.


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## Amarpal

Dear Sikh80 Ji,

The font you have used in your respose does not come properly on my PC. Please tell me from where I can download it. I have this problem with many post from different members. Help me please

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh


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## Sikh80

Respected Sir, 
Would you be implying the Gurmukhi Fonts. Kindly inform. I shall have to check as I must be havinng 40 fonts of Gurmukhi. But I shall try to help .
Regards


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## Sikh80

Dear Sir,
I am holding on for yourself. In case you have any difficulty kindly inform me by tommorrow. I shall attend to it.


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## Amarpal

quote=Sikh80;68066]Dear Sir,
I am holding on for yourself. In case you have any difficulty kindly inform me by tommorrow. I shall attend to it.[/quote]
Dear Sikh80 Ji,

Yes I meant Gurmukhi fonts

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh


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## Sikh80

The font is 'GurbaniAkharThick'.This can be downloaded from any site.Kindly check Sikhitothe Max or sikhnet. Hope you will locate.
Regards


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## Sikh80

I am posting few 'tuks'' that refer to Kundalini Jagran and the opening OF 10th Gate .It is as per Bhagat Kabeer ji's Bani.


 pYsIly ggn mJwrM ] (972-2, rwmklI, Bgq kbIr jI)
I have entered into the sky of the mind, and opened the Tenth Gate.
 byDIAly ck® BuAMgw ] (972-3, rwmklI, Bgq kbIr jI)
The chakras of the coiled Kundalini energy have been opened,
 BytIAly rwie insMgw ]2] (972-3, rwmklI, Bgq kbIr jI)
and I have met my Sovereign Lord King without fear. ||2||


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## Sikh80

The following Lines refer to Breath for the purpose Of Kundalini i.e ida [moon] and pingal [sun]

 cUkIAly moh mieAwsw ] (972-3, rwmklI, Bgq kbIr jI)
My attachment to Maya has been eradicated;
 sis kIno sUr igrwsw ] (972-4, rwmklI, Bgq kbIr jI)
the moon energy has devoured the sun energy.
 jb kuMBku Birpuir lIxw ] (972-4, rwmklI, Bgq kbIr jI)
When I was focused and merged into the all-pervading Lord,
 qh bwjy Anhd bIxw ]3] (972-4, rwmklI, Bgq kbIr jI)
then the unstruck sound current began to vibrate. ||3||


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## Sikh80

The following also refers to Kundalini Jagran as explained by BHagat Namdeo ji. Its entry in Granth sahib ji shows that This method of awakening of Kundalini and opening of the 10th gate was fairly practised during those times as well. 

ieVw ipMgulw Aauru suKmnw paunY bMiD rhwaugo ] (973-2, rwmklI, Bgq nwmdyv jI)
Then, I shall no longer control the breath through the energy channels of the Ida, Pingala and Shushmanaa.
 cMdu sUrju duie sm kir rwKau bRhm joiq imil jwaugo ]2] (973-3, rwmklI, Bgq nwmdyv jI)
I look upon both the moon and the sun as the same, and I shall merge in the Light of God. ||2||


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## Sikh80

This is agin referring to the control Of breath. Although there is no reference in Guru Sahib's bani but there is a reference to the control of Breath in the following as well.

 Kycr BUcr qulsI mwlw gur prswdI pwieAw ] (973-8, rwmklI, Bgq nwmdyv jI)
Control of the breath and positioning of the tongue, focusing at the third eye and wearing malas of tulsi beads, are all obtained through Guru's Grace.
 nwmw pRxvY prm qqu hY siqgur hoie lKwieAw ]3]3] (973-9, rwmklI, Bgq nwmdyv jI)
Naam Dayv prays, this is the supreme essence of reality; the True Guru has inspired this realization. ||3||3||


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## Sikh80

The following also gives reference to Kundalini/10th Gate.[this may be upto ang 974[19]].One may refer the full ang. 

ieVw ipMgulw Aaur suKmnw qIin bsih iek TweI ] (974-6, rwmklI, Bgq byxI jI)
The energy channels of the Ida, Pingala and Shushmanaa: these three dwell in one place.
 byxI sMgmu qh iprwgu mnu mjnu kry iqQweI ]1] (974-6, rwmklI, Bgq byxI jI)
This is the true place of confluence of the three sacred rivers: this is where my mind takes its cleansing bath. ||1||
 sMqhu qhw inrMjn rwmu hY ] (974-7, rwmklI, Bgq byxI jI)
O Saints, the Immaculate Lord dwells there;
 gur gim cInY ibrlw koie ] (974-7, rwmklI, Bgq byxI jI)
how rare are those who go to the Guru, and understand this.
 qhW inrMjnu rmeIAw hoie ]1] rhwau ] (974-7, rwmklI, Bgq byxI jI)
The all-pervading immaculate Lord is there. ||1||Pause||
 dyv sQwnY ikAw nIswxI ] (974-8, rwmklI, Bgq byxI jI)
What is the insignia of the Divine Lord's dwelling?
 qh bwjy sbd Anwhd bwxI ] (974-8, rwmklI, Bgq byxI jI)
The unstruck sound current of the Shabad vibrates there.
 qh cMdu n sUrju pauxu n pwxI ] (974-9, rwmklI, Bgq byxI jI)
There is no moon or sun, no air or water there.


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## Sikh80

I am giving below some more references that states that Kundalini awakening /opening Of 10th Gate is a must before any significant progress can be thought to have been attained. This is Raj Yoga and The Bhatt[poets] have stated this to be in the praise of Gru Arjan dev ji as well. I do not think I have anything more to tell you,sir.It is your turn now to enlighten us with your valuable opinion.As per sikhism it has been stated in GUrbani that Kundalini Awakening happens automatically in the holy sangat.

Page 1043, Line 13
ਨਿਉਲੀ ਕਰਮ ਭੁਇਅੰਗਮ ਭਾਠੀ ॥
निउली करम भुइअंगम भाठी ॥
Ni&shy;ulī karam bẖu&shy;i&shy;angam bẖāṯẖī.
Inner cleansing techniques, channeling the energy to raise the *Kundalini* to the Tenth Gate,
*Guru Nanak Dev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 1343, Line 6
ਨਿਵਲੀ ਕਰਮ ਭੁਅੰਗਮ ਭਾਠੀ ਰੇਚਕ ਪੂਰਕ ਕੁੰਭ ਕਰੈ ॥
निवली करम भुअंगम भाठी रेचक पूरक कु्मभ करै ॥
Nivlī karam bẖu&shy;angam bẖāṯẖī rėcẖak pūrak kumbẖ karai.
You may perform exercises of inner purification, and fire up the furnace of the *Kundalini*, inhaling and exhaling and holding the breath.
*Guru Nanak Dev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 1402, Line 10
ਕੁੰਡਲਨੀ ਸੁਰਝੀ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਪਰਮਾਨੰਦ ਗੁਰੂ ਮੁਖਿ ਮਚਾ ॥
कुंडलनी सुरझी सतसंगति परमानंद गुरू मुखि मचा ॥
Kundlanī surjẖī saṯsangaṯ parmānanḏ gurū mukẖ macẖā.
The *Kundalini* rises in the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation; through the Word of the Guru, they enjoy the Lord of Supreme Bliss.
*Bard Ga-yand*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## Amarpal

dear Sikh80 Ji,

Thank you, I have down loaded the font.

Amarpal Singh


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## kaur-1

I just been reading the last few pages and recall a  thread on the subject mentioned on these pages. Its a good read.

"*Why Guru Ji says 'NO' to yoga practices:"*
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/15903-why-not-yoga-practices.html


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## Sikh80

Naam jaap and simran will be discussed after the sangat has enjoyed the thread as stated by kaur.


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## Sikh80

*The Metaphysics of Naam*


*Dr. Debabrata Das**​
_* 19/5 Pottery Road, Kolkata. 700 015._
kindly Google out.


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## Sikh80

*Naam | ਨਾਮੁ*


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satnam


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## Sikh80

hau iqn kY bilhwrxY ijnw nwmy lgw ipAwru ] (26-10, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
I am a sacrifice to those who are in love with the Naam.
 syeI suKIey chu jugI ijnw nwmu AKutu Apwru ]3] (26-11, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
Those who attain the Inexhaustible Name of the Infinite Lord remain happy throughout the four ages. ||3||
 gur imilAY nwmu pweIAY cUkY moh ipAws ] (26-11, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
Meeting with the Guru, the Naam is obtained, and the thirst of emotional attachment departs.
 hir syqI mnu riv rihAw Gr hI mwih audwsu ] (26-11, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
When the mind is permeated with the Lord, one remains detached within the home of the heart.
 ijnw hir kw swdu AwieAw hau iqn bilhwrY jwsu ] (26-12, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
I am a sacrifice to those who enjoy the Sublime Taste of the Lord.
 nwnk ndrI pweIAY scu nwmu guxqwsu ]4]1]34] (26-13, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
O Nanak, by His Glance of Grace, the True Name, the Treasure of Excellence, is obtained. ||4||1||34||


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## Sikh80

*Our Redemption in This Life - God Alone gives Naam, none else*

http://srec.gurmat.info/srecarticles/ourredemptioninthislife.html


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## Sikh80

http://www.gurmat.info/sms/smsarticles/essaysonsikhvalues/nameofmylord/


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## Sikh80

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-sikhism/1442-naam-simran-remembering-lord-naam-jaap.html


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## Sikh80

http://srec.gurmat.info/srecarticles/ourredemptioninthislife.html


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## Sikh80

Sikh Missionary Society(U.K.) - Articles - Name of My Lord


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## Sikh80

Our Redemption in This Life - God Alone gives Naam, none else[/FONT]


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## Sikh80

This paper was presented in International Sikh Conferences 2004​ 

* Sikh Vision of the Cosmic Order[/FONT]*

   Narindar Singh


              The paper endeavours to bring out the spiritual dimensions by sifting through the theological concepts enunciated by the Gurus as enshrined in Guru Granth Sahib.  The concepts reveal about the nature of God – the ultimate metaphysical reality, the nature of creation and functioning of the universe according to divine will.  These concepts have a strong bearing in the development of Sikh ideology.  Sikh vision of the cosmic order is organized into three parts for convenience of presentation.  These are: Nature of Ultimate Reality and Creation of Universe, Human Destiny, and Realization of _Akal Purakh _(God).  I have commenced the paper with Guru Nanak’s Divine mission and considered appropriate to say a few words about the Sikh scripture Guru Granth Sahib.


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## Sikh80

jqu squ sMjmu nwmu hY ivxu nwvY inrmlu n hoie ] (33-5, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
*The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is abstinence, truthfulness, and self-restraint. Without the Name, no one becomes pure.*


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## Sikh80

This paper was presented in International Sikh Conferences 2004​ 

* Part III - Realization of Akal Purakh[/FONT]*

Narindar Singh[/FONT]​ 
kindly Google out.It is very interesting write up.
[/FONT]


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## Sikh80

From the above verses of the Gurbani, it becomes clear that the _Shabad_, Guru, Satguru, God, _Naam_ (Divine Name), Divine Light, Word, _Anhad-Dhuni, Naad _(Divine Sound), _Hukam, Bani_, etc., are virtually synonymous. It also becomes clear that the _Shabad_ or _Naam_ not only resides in the bosom of all beings, it also pervades the entire creation as butter in the milk, and as fire in the wood. It is the Unstruck Celestial Sound that vibrates, creates, guides, controls, directs, sustains, and animates every particle of the cosmos. 

Jetaa      keetaa teta Nayu. Vin Naavai naahee ko thaayu: The created universe      is the manifestation of God's Name. O God, without Your Name, there is no      place at all (sggs 4).
Shabad      deepak vartai tih loyi: The Word of the Shabad is a lamp,      illuminating the three worlds (sggs 664).
Su      Shabad kayu nirantar vaas alkham jah dekhaa tah soyee: That Shabad      dwells deep within the nucleus of all beings. God is invisible; (also      visible) wherever I look, there I see Him (sggs 944).
Naam      ke dhaaresagle jant.....Namm ke dhaare      pureeyaa sabh bhavan: The Naam is the Support of all creatures. The      Naam is the Support of the earth and solar systems. The Naam is the      Support of the Simritees, the Vedas and the Puraanas. The Naam is the      Support by which we hear of spiritual wisdom and meditation. The Naam is      the Support of the Akaashic ethers and the nether regions. The Naam is the      Support of all bodies. The Naam is the Support of all worlds and realms      (sggs 284).
  To put it in simple language, the _Shabad_ or _Naam_ is akin to a subtle bridge between the Source and His material universe. One must cross this bridge to go back to Divine Home ("_Nij Ghar_" or Pure Self) within. This is to say that, without Realizing the Essence of the _Shabad_ (_Naam_, _Bani_, etc.) within, one can not link with his True Self. But, as the Gurbani says, rare is the one who, by becoming a _Gurmukh_ (Spiritual Being), reflects on the True _Shabad_ (_Naam_) within. Rest of us — stumbling around in delusion — search for It in the gross objects of the mirage-like fleeting, perishable or changeful world! 

Tanu manu khoje taa naaou paae: Search your body and      mind, and find the Name (sggs 110). 
Raam naam aatam mahi sodhai: He searches for the      Divine Name within his own soul (sggs 274). 
Vadabhaagee gharu khojiaa paaiaa      naam nidhaan:      By great good fortune, I searched my body, and found the treasure of the      Naam within (sggs 757). 
Kaaiaa nagaree sabade khoje naam      navam nidhi paaee:      One who searches the village of the body, through the Shabad, obtains the      nine treasures of the Naam within (sggs 910). 
Bin Shabdai Pir na paayeeai      birthaa janam gavaayi: Without the Shabad, one does not find her Divine Beloved, and      her life wastes away in vain (sggs 31). 
Hari jeeyu saachaa saachee Bani      Shabad milaavaa hoyi: The Dear God is True, and True is the Word of His Bani. Through      the Shabad, we merge with Him (sggs 32). 
Naamai te sabh oopjai bhaayee nayi      visariyai mar jaayi: Naam is the creator of everything. To forsake Naam is death      (sggs 603). 
Gur kai sabde aap pashaanai: Realize the Self through      the Shabad (sggs 224). 
Nanak naam na veesarai shootai      sabad kamaae:      O Nanak, do not forget the Naam; without practicing and Realizing the      Shabad, you will not be liberated (sggs 62). 
Gurmukhi saach sabad beechharai      koi: Rare is      the one who, by becoming a Gurmukh (Spiritual Being), reflects on the True      Shabad (sggs 946).
  —T. Singh 
Sikhism: Reflections On Gurbani


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## Sikh80

Our Redemption in This Life - God Alone gives Naam, none else


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## Sikh80

*Naam Simran*

Remembering God's nameOrganised & Structured Social Service. The spirit of Simran in Sikh. way of Life stands anchored around the following holy words in Japu Ji Sahib   supplemented with  
_SatGurBani_*Gaviyy* _SatGurBani_*Suniyy* _SatGurBani_ka Man _myy_*Rakhiyy Bhau*.......  

This is a seminal form of worship for Sikhs.


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## Sikh80

mwDau hir hir hir muiK khIAY ]
*O Lord, I chant Your Name, Har, Har, Har.*

hm qy kCU n hovY suAwmI ijau rwKhu iqau rhIAY ]1] rhwau ]
*I cannot do anything by myself, O Lord and Master. As You keep me, so I remain. ||1||Pause||*

ikAw ikCu krY ik krxYhwrw ikAw iesu hwiQ ibcwry ]*What can the mere mortal do? What is in the hands of this poor creature?*

ijqu qum lwvhu iqq hI lwgw pUrn Ksm hmwry ]1]
*As You attach us, so we are attached, O my Perfect Lord and Master. ||1||*

krhu ik®pw srb ky dwqy eyk rUp ilv lwvhu ]
*Take pity on me, O Great Giver of all, that I may enshrine love for Your Form alone.*

nwnk kI bynµqI hir pih Apunw nwmu jpwvhu ]2]7]165]
*Nanak offers this prayer to the Lord, that he may chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||2||7||165||



*


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## Sikh80

*  Quotes *

 "Simran to me means remembrance. I know I can recall to memory only those entities whom I know well viz. individuals, events, things, places etc. When I do not know about 'The Sat' (my way of referring to 'The Ultimate') how can I recall "The Sat' in my mind. The stage of evolution I am, contemplating on 'The Sat' is Simran for me. I exercise my mind to coneptualise the 'Nirakaar' i.e. 'The Sat; I think how can I merge with 'The Sat' etc, etc. this is Simran for me. 
Repetition of the word by which one refers to 'The Sat' is 'Jaap' for me. If 'Jaap' and 'Simran' were to mean the same, then there was no need for two separate words. These two wards exist because they convey different way of application of mind. 
'Simran' and 'Jaap' are two separate practices for mind." by Amarpal Singh 

Simran - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.


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## Sikh80

Thus, according to the concept of Naam and the hymns quoted earlier in this regard, God created the world and in His immanent aspect, as Naam, is informing and working it. Only one entity, namely, God, is envisaged and the world, in time and space, is His creation, the same being supported and directed by Naam. Let us see if this cosmological view is also supported by other verses in Guru Granth Sahib. 

In the very opening verse of Guru Granth Sahib, God is described as the Sole-One, His Naam as Real, Creator-Lord, ...... Timeless Person, One that is not born, Self-existent. [1. p. 1]. The Gurus have stated at a number of places that there was a stage when the Transcendent God was by Himself; and it is later that He started His Creative Activity. In Sidh Gosht, in answer to a question as to where was the Transcendent God before the stage of creation, Guru Nanak replied, "To think of the Transcendent Lord in that state is to enter the realm of wonder. Even at that stage of sunn (void), He permeated all that void." [1. p. 940].

_ Note BY Author_: One can see wide references made at ang 940. The ang contains very useful references..Some of these are as follows:
ਨਾਮੇ  ਰਾਤੇ  ਹਉਮੈ  ਜਾਇ  ॥ 
नामे राते हउमै जाइ ॥ 
Nāmė rāṯė ha*umai jā*ė. 
Attuned to the Naam, the Name of the Lord, egotism is dispelled. 

ਨਾਮਿ  ਰਤੇ  ਸਚਿ  ਰਹੇ  ਸਮਾਇ  ॥ 
नामि रते सचि रहे समाइ ॥ 
Nām raṯė sacẖ rahė samā*ė. 
Attuned to the Naam, they remain absorbed in the True Lord. 

ਨਾਮਿ  ਰਤੇ  ਜੋਗ  ਜੁਗਤਿ  ਬੀਚਾਰੁ  ॥ 
नामि रते जोग जुगति बीचारु ॥ 
Nām raṯė jog jugaṯ bīcẖār. 
Attuned to the Naam, they contemplate the Way of Yoga. 

ਨਾਮਿ  ਰਤੇ  ਪਾਵਹਿ  ਮੋਖ  ਦੁਆਰੁ  ॥ 
नामि रते पावहि मोख दुआरु ॥ 
Nām raṯė pāvahi mokẖ ḏu*ār. 
Attuned to the Naam, they find the door of liberation. 

ਨਾਮਿ  ਰਤੇ  ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ  ਸੋਝੀ  ਹੋਇ  ॥ 
नामि रते त्रिभवण सोझी होइ ॥ 
Nām raṯė ṯaribẖavaṇ sojẖī ho*ė. 
Attuned to the Naam, they understand the three worlds. 

ਨਾਨਕ  ਨਾਮਿ  ਰਤੇ  ਸਦਾ  ਸੁਖੁ  ਹੋਇ  ॥੩੨॥ 
नानक नामि रते सदा सुखु होइ ॥३२॥ 
Nānak nām raṯė saḏā sukẖ ho*ė. ||32|| 
O Nanak, attuned to the Naam, eternal peace is found. ||32|| 

ਨਾਮਿ  ਰਤੇ  ਸਿਧ  ਗੋਸਟਿ  ਹੋਇ  ॥ 
नामि रते सिध गोसटि होइ ॥ 
Nām raṯė siḏẖ gosat ho*ė. 
Attuned to the Naam, they attain Sidh Gosht - conversation with the Siddhas. 

ਨਾਮਿ  ਰਤੇ  ਸਦਾ  ਤਪੁ  ਹੋਇ  ॥ 
नामि रते सदा तपु होइ ॥ 
Nām raṯė saḏā ṯap ho*ė. 
Attuned to the Naam, they practice intense meditation forever. 

ਨਾਮਿ  ਰਤੇ  ਸਚੁ  ਕਰਣੀ  ਸਾਰੁ  ॥ 
नामि रते सचु करणी सारु ॥ 
Nām raṯė sacẖ karṇī sār. 
Attuned to the Naam, they live the true and excellent lifestyle. 

ਨਾਮਿ  ਰਤੇ  ਗੁਣ  ਗਿਆਨ  ਬੀਚਾਰੁ  ॥ 
नामि रते गुण गिआन बीचारु ॥ 
Nām raṯė guṇ gi*ān bīcẖār. 
Attuned to the Naam, they contemplate the Lord's virtues and spiritual wisdom. 

ਬਿਨੁ  ਨਾਵੈ  ਬੋਲੈ  ਸਭੁ  ਵੇਕਾਰੁ  ॥ 
बिनु नावै बोलै सभु वेकारु ॥ 
Bin nāvai bolai sabẖ vėkār. 
Without the Name, all that is spoken is useless. 

ਨਾਨਕ  ਨਾਮਿ  ਰਤੇ  ਤਿਨ  ਕਉ  ਜੈਕਾਰੁ  ॥੩੩॥ 
नानक नामि रते तिन कउ जैकारु ॥३३॥ 
Nānak nām raṯė ṯin ka*o jaikār. ||33|| 
O Nanak, attuned to the Naam, their victory is celebrated. ||33|| 

ਪੂਰੇ  ਗੁਰ  ਤੇ  ਨਾਮੁ  ਪਾਇਆ  ਜਾਇ  ॥ 
पूरे गुर ते नामु पाइआ जाइ ॥ 
Pūrė gur ṯė nām pā*i*ā jā*ė. 
Through the Perfect Guru, one obtains the Naam, the Name of the Lord. 

The above has specially been taken from srigranth.org and one can refer to the ang 940 directly and find out the meanings of the words,in case of doubt.


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## pk70

With due respect to Sikh 80, I wonder after hundreds of articles/books written on simran or Naam Jap, why still people have failed to understand it and practice it? People write lengthy articles without mentioning a few words Satguru used in various Shabad to make it clear what is the true meaning of simran and jap and how it is to put in practice. What we do, when we face a question, we start defending ourselves about what we wrote or thought. NaamJap jee has a point. In a short way let me qoute Satguru here in this context of simran and jap. Sri  Raag Mehla 1... Naam slahi rang sio, Gur kai Shabad santokh 11  .... gurmatt tu slahna, hor keemt kehn n jaye 11 ... Gurmatt SACHA mann vassai Naam bhoolo patt saakh 11   ... in another context    .. Jin ke chole rattre KANT tina ke paas.."   All these words used by Satguru ji indicate for true love for WAHEGURU, in simple words to fall in love with WAHEGURU. Why have we fallen victims to the kinds of ritualisms Satguru advocated to abandon absolutely. Most of the words that convey major message of Gurmatt, Satguru Sahiban explained them in various shabad literally giving them a meaning. People study Gurbani and stat translating in English especially by word by word or sentence by sentence which trigger imbiguity and misinterpretations. Translation by Dr. Darshan Singh ji is another example of it. Yesterday.s Sardara 123 ji's Shabad translation of a shabad in Dhanasri Mehla 1 is very good example how meanings of Gurbani are taken odd to Gurmatt(  Sardara 123 ji might have got it from some where , no offense, forgive me, the meanings are crippled) Same case is here, Naam Simran, many people are not able to utilize simran and jap beyond a ritual. Why? Because we, when interpret do not take Gurbani in its totality. I recommend Dr Sahib Singh's interpretation, it does match very well with Gurumatt if not perfect. Do you want to enjoy jap? Do you want to enjoy simran? Fall in love with ALMIGHTY without any duality at all because between situation will mitigate the effect. In HIS Rabg ratte are in jaap/simran state of mind always.
Again sorry if I contradict!

HAR bisrat sda khuari


Source:
http://www.sikhlionz.com/naam.htm[/quote]


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## Sardara123

pk70 said:
			
		

> Yesterday.s Sardara 123 ji's Shabad translation of a shabad in Dhanasri Mehla 1 is very good example how meanings of Gurbani are taken odd to Gurmatt( Sardara 123 ji might have got it from some where , no offense, forgive me, the meanings are crippled)


 
pk70 Ji,

Can you provide 'TO THE POINT TRANSLATIONS IN ENGLISH' Please.

I only know a few sources, and that was the closest I could find.

Waheguru knows, my intention is to share 'GURU SHABD', not the translations or by any means -my intellect. 

Very sorry for causing any trouble, it happens many times, but there are many members who can't read Gurmukhi at all, so one has to depend on English Translations, what ever available. I always check for the things like- statements not in line with Gurbani etc. But I know that a translation is not Guru's Words, on top of that it is a totaly different language, so the syntax cant match. But if you can find one more closer, that will be the best thing for those who only read the translations.

I will really appreciate, if you can provide correct or at least the closest Enlgish Tarjma. 

Thanks.


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## Sikh80

pk70 said:


> With due respect to Sikh 80, I wonder after hundreds of articles/books written on simran or Naam Jap, why still people have failed to understand it and practice it? People write lengthy articles without mentioning a few words Satguru used in various Shabad to make it clear what is the true meaning of simran and jap and how it is to put in practice. What we do, when we face a question, we start defending ourselves about what we wrote or thought. http://www.sikhlionz.com/naam.htm


[/quote]

Yes, Sir, you may be  cent-percent correct in your observations. It is our good luck that you have pointed out something that is lacking. I am just posting that is already authored and widely accepted. A small write up on that you have suggested would be welcome.We all do as per our intellect. 

But we all appreciate the contribution of seniors who can guide us. It would be our previlege to pause for a moment and wait for a instructive post from you.



With Regards to all.


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## pk70

Sardara123 said:


> pk70 Ji,
> 
> Can you provide 'TO THE POINT TRANSLATIONS IN ENGLISH' Please.
> 
> I only know a few sources, and that was the closest I could find.
> 
> Waheguru knows, my intention is to share 'GURU SHABD', not the translations or by any means -my intellect.
> 
> Very sorry for causing any trouble, it happens many times, but there are many members who can't read Gurmukhi at all, so one has to depend on English Translations, what ever available. I always check for the things like- statements not in line with Gurbani etc. But I know that a translation is not Guru's Words, on top of that it is a totaly different language, so the syntax cant match. But if you can find one more closer, that will be the best thing for those who only read the translations.
> 
> I will really appreciate, if you can provide correct or at least the closest Enlgish Tarjma.
> 
> Thanks.


 
 Sat Sree AKAAL Sardara 123 Ji

First of all let me thank you from the bottom of my heart for your all efforts you do to share Guru message with other fellows; doubtless it is praiseworthy because you are sharing NAAM Gyaan just for the sake of love for NAAM unlike others who write and sell NAAM to make money, there is a long list of such people. Here is what Satguru says who sell Naam instead of enlightening people" dhrig tinah ka jeev jo likh likh veche NAON 11 Kheti jina kee ujjre, khalvare kia thaon ( SGGS 1245)

I strongly believe that no one can translate Gurbani as per the message Sathuru conveyed through it, so I suggest people to keep total message of Gurmatt in mind while translating . Beautifully it was kept through Guru Granth Sahib by Guru Sahibaan.
If we want to share with people who can hardly understand Panjabi/Gurmukhi, read the complete Shabad, find out the message and avoid translating word by word or sentence by sentence. Here is a few examples from Dr Darshan Singh's translation of SGGS whom I have a lot of respect but bluders are regretfull. On first page, waak of Satguru" soche soch n hovaee je soche lakh vaar11" Here is his translation" worrying brings no result even if one worries lacs of times"
"soch" word has nothing to do with the worry in this context.
next In Sree Rag Mehla 1 Ghar 4 ..... ek suaan duye suaani naal 11 bhalke bhonke sda beeaal 11 koorh shura mutha murdaa11
Here is the translation " There is one dog two bitches with it. Tomorrow ever they bark in the direction of wind. False food is a dagger that robs the ill getting" What is Dr Darshan Singh is trying here to translate these Guru waak, translating  words? But words Satguru used are sybolic stating mental convictions of the minds which are subject of Satguru's message. A foreigner will learn what from this translation? This translation is infested with such blunders. That is the other reason I humbly request people that if you just want to make money look for another field, leave Gurbani to devotees, they can handle it but do not cripple the message of Gurmatt. I applaud you for your sincere efforts and recommend you to study SGGS ibterpretted by Dr Sahib Singh completely, I call it very well match with the message Satguru if not perfect. Also I praise you for a big heart to learn more instead of defending yourself. We all learn from each others, as you do, I do, we are defined by Gurmatt as learners( SIKHS).
As you asked here is a close translation of that Shabad by me. I suggest you to read translation by Principal Teja Singh, Talib sahib in english, they are better than the rest.

PK 70
HAR BISRAT SDA KHUAARI

Dhansri Mehalla 1 Ghar 1 Chuopde

There is only one God, His existence is a reality. He is the only Creator without fear or animosity. He is beyond death or birth. By himself He is luminous. Can be realized through blessings of Guru
 I am scarred being in this world filled with miseries from in who I should take refuge. When The Immortal giver of all is forgotten, misery follows.(1) My Master, I know, is always there to help me and while helping he acts as if I had prayed for his help first time,( in other words He never gets tired of this good deed.)(1 Pause) Everyday the Master should be in mind because He is the only one who can liberate all. O my friend, by listening to the praise of my Master leads to the successful liberation.(2)O Kind One, with your love I will pass through the world of miseries I always sacrifice to you(1 Pause).
Belonging to all only He is the one, none other, but only those get tuned to Him who He blesses (3). My dear, how can I live without you? No, I can’t. Please bless me with that kind of honour that can keep me in love with you. I am certain there’s no one other equal to you that I should go and pray.(1 Pause) I shall serve my Master only and shall not ask any thing from any other one. Satguru says (Nanak says) I am His low servant and sacrifice myself to him all the time. My Master!I sacrifice to you all the time.  
 PS Forgive me if something is overlooked


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## spnadmin

pk70

Now I have read two comments you have written. Both stopped me dead because you have gone to  the heart of this matter of translations. The translator has to look at the whole of the Guru to capture the meaning of His shabad at its heart.

Not just matching one word to another, but capturing the big message. It cannot be easy because languages don't co-operate in advance. Guruji has been speaking for centuries and only in a blink of time has there been a desire by  English speakers to hear Guruji's message, a message which is much more than the sum total of His vocabulary. Please tell us how we can find translations by Principal Teja Singh. 

I agree with what you said in another post about Sant Khalsa Singh. Flaws are not flaws when one is traveling to the center of the heart. 

And so you did notice Sardara123's big heart :star:-- all of his people have big hearts. So must you have a big heart too as you could see this in someone else.


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## Astroboy

*Calmness of mind or Sahej comes by continuous recitation on the Divine Name. **"Dum Dum Sada Samalda Dum Na Birtha Jae" (556) *​
It is not proper to control one's desires by force. As a snake when shut up in a casket spites suddenly on the opening of the lid, similar are the desires of man. One should recite the Name continuously to achieve calmness of mind.​


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## Sardara123

pk70 said:


> Sat Sree AKAAL Sardara 123 Ji
> 
> First of all let me thank you from the bottom of my heart for your all efforts you do to share Guru message with other fellows; doubtless it is praiseworthy because you are sharing NAAM Gyaan just for the sake of love for NAAM unlike others who write and sell NAAM to make money, there is a long list of such people. Here is what Satguru says who sell Naam instead of enlightening people" dhrig tinah ka jeev jo likh likh veche NAON 11 Kheti jina kee ujjre, khalvare kia thaon ( SGGS 1245)
> 
> I strongly believe that no one can translate Gurbani as per the message Sathuru conveyed through it, so I suggest people to keep total message of Gurmatt in mind while translating . Beautifully it was kept through Guru Granth Sahib by Guru Sahibaan.
> If we want to share with people who can hardly understand Panjabi/Gurmukhi, read the complete Shabad, find out the message and avoid translating word by word or sentence by sentence. Here is a few examples from Dr Darshan Singh's translation of SGGS whom I have a lot of respect but bluders are regretfull. On first page, waak of Satguru" soche soch n hovaee je soche lakh vaar11" Here is his translation" worrying brings no result even if one worries lacs of times"
> "soch" word has nothing to do with the worry in this context.
> next In Sree Rag Mehla 1 Ghar 4 ..... ek suaan duye suaani naal 11 bhalke bhonke sda beeaal 11 koorh shura mutha murdaa11
> Here is the translation " There is one dog two bitches with it. Tomorrow ever they bark in the direction of wind. False food is a dagger that robs the ill getting" What is Dr Darshan Singh is trying here to translate these Guru waak, translating words? But words Satguru used are sybolic stating mental convictions of the minds which are subject of Satguru's message. A foreigner will learn what from this translation? This translation is infested with such blunders. That is the other reason I humbly request people that if you just want to make money look for another field, leave Gurbani to devotees, they can handle it but do not cripple the message of Gurmatt. I applaud you for your sincere efforts and recommend you to study SGGS ibterpretted by Dr Sahib Singh completely, I call it very well match with the message Satguru if not perfect. Also I praise you for a big heart to learn more instead of defending yourself. We all learn from each others, as you do, I do, we are defined by Gurmatt as learners( SIKHS).
> As you asked here is a close translation of that Shabad by me. I suggest you to read translation by Principal Teja Singh, Talib sahib in english, they are better than the rest.
> 
> PK 70
> HAR BISRAT SDA KHUAARI


 
PK 70 Ji,

Thanks for replying. Thanks to Waheguru Ji for all, It is all Guru Ji's Bessing, I am doing nothing. 
I have read Prof Sahib Singh Ji as well as Bhai Veer Singh Ji, and still go back to them sometimes, even post Bhai Sahib Singh Ji's Translations sometimes. I am surely searching for a more detailed English Translation, which can provide a good explanation of the 'Word'. 

As you advised, please guide, Where can I find Principal Teja Singh Ji's or Talib Ji's English Translations? I will look into it.

I totally understand what you saying, it happens many many times. If it is in my hands, I will make every body sit and learn Gurmukhi, whoever want to read Gurbani . Let us be positive, We need to keep on working on this and do the best possible with Guru Ji's Grace.

Thanks again PK 70 Ji.


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## pk70

Sardara123 said:


> PK 70 Ji,
> 
> Thanks for replying. Thanks to Waheguru Ji for all, It is all Guru Ji's Bessing, I am doing nothing.
> I have read Prof Sahib Singh Ji as well as Bhai Veer Singh Ji, and still go back to them sometimes, even post Bhai Sahib Singh Ji's Translations sometimes. I am surely searching for a more detailed English Translation, which can provide a good explanation of the 'Word'.
> 
> As you advised, please guide, Where can I find Principal Teja Singh Ji's or Talib Ji's English Translations? I will look into it.
> 
> I totally understand what you saying, it happens many many times. If it is in my hands, I will make every body sit and learn Gurmukhi, whoever want to read Gurbani . Let us be positive, We need to keep on working on this and do the best possible with Guru Ji's Grace.
> 
> Thanks again PK 70 Ji.


 
Sat Sree AKAAL Sardara 123 jio

I am glad I could be of any service, my mission is just to aware my Gursikh fellows who are devoted to Sikh-cause( like S Aman Singh millions thanks for opening up this site where all we can share  and learn from each other) that a lot of distortion of Gurbani and Sikhism is being donewhile so called schoolars write or do a search on Gurbani. Persons like you, Sikh 80. naamjap, ambardhara and especially aad002 who emmensely showed interest in my postings,deserve to be appluaded for devotion towards it. Go to Library, (Gurdawara 34 my have)
Look for Japji Sahib by Pr. Teja Singh and Translation of  Guru Granth Sahib ji by Gurbachan Singh ji Talib. Not perfect but they tried to keep Guru message in translation .  Avoid non Sikh writers or those who just write to make money. People who use pompous language are just there to put their own show. People whose work must be avoided to give importance are many but I can mention a few, like Osho(fabricates story to avoid the point), Khushwant Singh( does his work on hearsay) or a group settled outside India( under enfluence of missioneries). Go to Sikhspectrum.com, read Dr Baldev Singh who truely advocates Gurmat and takes any one who try to distort. Sorry to say, I may disagree with Him on some points  too with due respect but I cannot help applauding his approach towards Gurbani (the best one), Doctor Sahib has no ax to grind either.
Thanks again

Pk70
HAR bisrat sda khuari


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## pk70

Sat Sree Akaal aad002
Thanks for paying paying attension towards some of my critism of distortion done by some and agreeing to it, we Sikhs need people like you to continue speaking against these things. My mission is that all good persons like you should stand against it and contribute(as you are doing) positively.Here on this site, Yes ,all have good hearts including you. Principal Teja Singh translated not very much but like Japji translation is available, go to library, like University, if you are in Mohali, may be Library of Gurdwara 34 have. Gurbachan Singh Talib did translate Guru Granth Sahib ji He will be available too in the library. If you comprehend Gurbani properly, you can find distortion and go with your own attempt of coorecting it. It will be my pleasure to discuss any thing with you and other Sikh fellows.
Forgive me II missed any answer.
Waheguru bless you with more knowledge in this context.

Pk70
Har bisrat sda khuaari


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## pk70

Sikh80 said:


> In view of the above, we should define Naam as the Dynamic Immanence of God or the Reality sustaining and working the manifest world of force and form. It is on the basis of these fundamentals that we should like to trace and understand some important concepts and conclusions, ideas and institutions, trends and traditions in Sikhism and its socio-religious way of life.
> 
> *3. Naam and Cosmology *
> 
> The Guru writes, "the self-existent God manifested Himself into Naam. Second came the Creation of the universe. He permeates it and revels in His creation." "God created the world of life, He planted Naam in it and made it the place for righteous activity." [1. p. 463].
> 
> *Contd..*


 

Sat Sree AKAAL Sikh 80 ji

THanks for your respectful inquiry, here is a kind reply. I have tried to just say what Guru Sahiban want from us in context of  NaamJapna

Sat Sree AKAAL Sikh 80
Please accept my thanks for showing positive response to my critical look at your posting; it is a testimony of your being open which is very much important for spiritual growth.

I do not believe in accepted authors since message of Satguru is more important to me than any ones own ideology, where it is distorted, like Dr Baldev Singh of USA, I shall point out to regardless the status built in any circle of any author. I recommend you to stay strict to what Satguru tries to say. While translating Gurbani in English, Persons like Pr. Teja Singh and Gurbachan Singh Talib did their best to stay close to the Guru message though their translation is not perfect because it is completely impossible to do it by keeping Guru’s message intact. So study Gurbani with satisfied interpretation, and translate the echoed idea in shabad in its totality
Coming to Naam Japna, numerous scholars tried to interpret the word” Naam Japna” most close meaning is given by Dr Sahib Singh ji, it is” to bear in mind” that doesn’t need any help from tongue. Remember reading, you read with eyes and quit saying what you read. The purpose is solved both ways. This very purpose was explained by Satguru Sahiban in various Shabads, a few quotes are given below.
“ Naam slahi rang sion , Gur ke shabad santokh” Maajh M-5( Naam slahi rang sion , note it down) Means, Being contented with Guru advice get involve with Waheguru while praising HIM.
“ tin ka khadha paidha Maya sabh pavitt jo Naam HAR rate ( Naam Har rate, note it down) Only their worldly living and having materialistic things are pure who are in love with The Almighty
“ uth deyaan behndyean suttyan sda sda HAR NAam dhyeeai  Page594( note down dhyeaeeai) Means  BE IN LOVE WITH HIM  ALL THE TIME
Har Har Naam jpo Ras meetha, Gurmukh Har Ras unttr deetha( note down unttr deetha)
Ahnis raho Rag rate, eh jap tap sanjam sara he ( Maru Mehla 1 ( note ehnis raho rang rate, note it down)
Means Have Him in your heart, who got tuned to Guru,found this sweet experience within( ras word is used to give importance to joy of having HIS experience to all worldly ras). Be advised being involved with Waheguru all the time because it is  an essence of  knowledge people long to get it through other rituals like jap tap sanjam
All these words or phrases indicating what was a main instruction in the beginning of Japji, if jap is taken to saying only then why here it is rejected, note it down please
“gavan haari gavai geet 11 te udhre basse je cheet 11 kehn kahavan sagl janjaal 11 Nanak daas SACH KARNI saar 11 Kanra Mehla 5(1030) Means people sing praises of HIM but merely singing can bring no fruits unless one falls in love with HIM or let HIM occupy the heart. Such singing/ saying are all just ritual bindings. Satguru says that truthful living while being in love with HIM is vital.
So Jap is defined again here” Ghar rahu mann mugadh eeaane 11 Ram japo unttrgat dhyaane 11 Maru Mehla 1 Means, come back from outside frustration you naïve , praise HIM by being in love with HIM The very word “ japo” is interpreted here. Ritual has no place in Gurmatt, any action sounds or appears like a ritual should be considered disrespect to our adorable Satguru. About five hundred years ago Satguru set  Indians  free from traditional bindings loaded with superstitious rituals, first time a logic was introduced to a religion, even Budhism and other religions were marred with illogical traditions. It is lucky to be a Sikh of Satguru Nanak Gobind Singh in this regard.
Please forgive me for questioning established writers, ignore any mistake if occurred while writing/typing it.
Pk70
HAR bisrat sda khuaari M-5


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## Astroboy

Dear Pk70 Ji,

SPN moderators are happy to see that Gurmat Vichaar section has attracted healthy discussions esp from individuals like you, Sardara, Ambar, Pyramid and many others.


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## Sardara123

PK70 ji,

People tried to distort Gurbani right from the begining. They were against Gurbani from many centuries. They tortured Guru Ji for adding Bhagat bani. My grandparents used to tell me a story about how people used to invade Sikh's houses and used to cut off their heads and take it with them to show the hakumat of their time to get a big monetary gain out of it. They have done all sorts of things, sometimes by directly opposing it, simetimes by using other decieving means like mistranslating Gurbani and providing mismatch statements on Gurmat. Sikhs are still alive and are all over the world, within only 500+ year time period. Nobody can ever kill the Truth, It remains.

I am not concerned who does what, they can do whatever, they couldn't stop Guru Ji, they cant stop Sikhs. They kill one, many others sprout up. 

My humble mission is just to share Guru Shabad, remind my brothers and sisters about Guru Ji's words again and again. For those who dont know Gurmukhi, When those people read English translation, they get attracted, and they want to know more. A true seeker does end up learning Gurmukhi and Gurbani in its original text, and we must not forget- GURU JI IS ALWAYS THERE, HE CREATES THE MEANS FOR HIS SEVAKS. So I am not worried at all. 

It is not me you or other, Waheguru is doing it all, there is nobody else, Right.

As Guru Ji tells us: 

Tudh Bin Avar Na Koi Kartey Mai Dhar Out Tumahri Jeeoo.

So let us keep walking the path Guru Ji has shown us, take guidance from Guru Ji at every step, and be CONTENT- Living in Hukam. 

Thanks for all your help and suggestions.


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## AmbarDhara

Manmukh's fascination for poison makes him/her do business in Poison. All are under His Hukam. He has assigned them this kind of task- poor manmukh. ​ 
Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
SGGS JI
ANG 85
SATGURU PRASAAD​ 


ਪਉੜੀ ॥ 
pourree ||
Pauree:​ 

ਸਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਈ ਸਭ ਤੁਧੁ ਆਪੇ ਰਿਜਕੁ ਸੰਬਾਹਿਆ ॥ 
sisatt oupaaee sabh thudhh aapae rijak sanbaahiaa ||
You created the entire universe, and You Yourself bring sustenance to it.​ 

ਇਕਿ ਵਲੁ ਛਲੁ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਖਾਵਦੇ ਮੁਹਹੁ ਕੂੜੁ ਕੁਸਤੁ ਤਿਨੀ ਢਾਹਿਆ ॥ 
eik val shhal kar kai khaavadhae muhahu koorr kusath thinee dtaahiaa ||
Some eat and survive by practicing fraud and deceit; from their mouths they drop falsehood and lies.​ 

ਤੁਧੁ ਆਪੇ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋ ਕਰਹਿ ਤੁਧੁ ਓਤੈ ਕੰਮਿ ਓਇ ਲਾਇਆ ॥ 
thudhh aapae bhaavai so karehi thudhh outhai kanm oue laaeiaa ||
As it pleases You, You assign them their tasks.​ 

ਇਕਨਾ ਸਚੁ ਬੁਝਾਇਓਨੁ ਤਿਨਾ ਅਤੁਟ ਭੰਡਾਰ ਦੇਵਾਇਆ ॥ 
eikanaa sach bujhaaeioun thinaa athutt bhanddaar dhaevaaeiaa ||
Some understand Truthfulness; they are given the inexhaustible treasure.​ 

ਹਰਿ ਚੇਤਿ ਖਾਹਿ ਤਿਨਾ ਸਫਲੁ ਹੈ ਅਚੇਤਾ ਹਥ ਤਡਾਇਆ ॥੮॥ 
har chaeth khaahi thinaa safal hai achaethaa hathh thaddaaeiaa ||8||
Those who eat by remembering the Lord are prosperous, while those who do not remember Him stretch out their hands in need. ||8||​source: http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.php?word=lie&book=sri_guru_granth_sahib&action=pagebypage&page=85

Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
SGGS JI
ANG 123
SATGURU PRASAAD​

​ਆਪੇ ਕਰਤਾ ਕਾਰਣੁ ਕਰਾਏ ॥ 
aapae karathaa kaaran karaaeae ||
The Creator Lord Himself is the Doer of deeds.​ 

ਜਿਤੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਤੁ ਕਾਰੈ ਲਾਏ ॥ 
jith bhaavai thith kaarai laaeae ||
As He pleases, He applies us to our tasks.​ 

ਪੂਰੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੨॥ 
poorai bhaag gur saevaa hovai gur saevaa thae sukh paavaniaa ||2||
Through perfect destiny, we serve the Guru; serving the Guru, peace is found. ||2||​ 
source: http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.php?word=lie&book=sri_guru_granth_sahib&action=pagebypage&page=123


Gurbani eis jag meh chaanan
Gurbani alakh lakhiayaa
Gurbani Gavo Bhaee
charan kamal parabh kay nit Dhi-aava-o​ 
Let us pray for Sarbat Da Bhala​


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## Sikh80

~SSA~ Pk70 ji,

Thanks for your observations and comments  and the pains that you might have taken in  quoting from  the Granth sahib ji. 

You have highlighted extracts of some previous post.It looks that you have not liked something in particular in that post.

Kindly let us have the benefit as to that you have not liked.

Yes, the entire thread is based on the previous established writings. My contribution is almost nil in all the threads. 

One tend to deviate from the previous literature if it is found defective in some way and that is prejudicial to the interest to the sikhism or the set of belief contained in are not acceptable.In the present case the article is authored by Mr. Daljeet singh, the writings of whom are well respected and relied upon. In this thread there is no interpretation of any line. Yes, there are some valuable contribution of some members.

Coming To 'Naam', it is my belief that no one can state anything about Naam for the reasons that it is not well explained and even if it is explained it would be as per individual's understanding only.It is not a term of science that it has a precise meaning. If God is limitless so should be the Naam that is almost HE Himself. One can form a broad idea as to what it is. You may also like to opine on this.

A healthy discussion is always welcome

I shall request you to kindly let me know as that has bothered you. It shall help me in preparing the small write ups that I do prepare while reading and learning.

Warm Regards


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## Astroboy

ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥ 
गउड़ी गुआरेरी महला ४ ॥ 
Ga&shy;oṛī gu&shy;ārėrī mehlā 4. 
Gauree Bairaagan, Fourth Mehl: 

ਕਿਰਸਾਣੀ ਕਿਰਸਾਣੁ ਕਰੇ ਲੋਚੈ ਜੀਉ ਲਾਇ ॥ 
किरसाणी किरसाणु करे लोचै जीउ लाइ ॥ 
Kirsāṇī kirsāṇ karė locẖai jī&shy;o lā&shy;ė. 
The farmers love to work their farms; 

ਹਲੁ ਜੋਤੈ ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਮੇਰਾ ਪੁਤੁ ਧੀ ਖਾਇ ॥ 
हलु जोतै उदमु करे मेरा पुतु धी खाइ ॥ 
Hal joṯai uḏam karė mėrā puṯ ḏẖī kẖā&shy;ė. 
they plow and work the fields, so that their sons and daughters may eat. 

ਤਿਉ ਹਰਿ ਜਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੁ ਕਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਅੰਤਿ ਛਡਾਇ ॥੧॥ 
तिउ हरि जनु हरि हरि जपु करे हरि अंति छडाइ ॥१॥ 
Ŧi&shy;o har jan har har jap karė har anṯ cẖẖadā&shy;ė. ||1|| 
In just the same way, the Lord's humble servants chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, and in the end, the Lord shall save them. ||1|| 

ਮੈ ਮੂਰਖ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਕੀਜੈ ਮੇਰੇ ਰਾਮ ॥ 
मै मूरख की गति कीजै मेरे राम ॥ 
Mai mūrakẖ kī gaṯ kījai mėrė rām. 
I am foolish - save me, O my Lord! 

ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਹਰਿ ਲਾਇ ਹਮ ਕਾਮ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
गुर सतिगुर सेवा हरि लाइ हम काम ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ 
Gur saṯgur sėvā har lā&shy;ė ham kām. ||1|| rahā&shy;o. 
O Lord, enjoin me to work and serve the Guru, the True Guru. ||1||Pause|| 

ਲੈ ਤੁਰੇ ਸਉਦਾਗਰੀ ਸਉਦਾਗਰੁ ਧਾਵੈ ॥ 
लै तुरे सउदागरी सउदागरु धावै ॥ 
Lai ṯurė sa&shy;uḏāgrī sa&shy;uḏāgar ḏẖāvai. 
The traders buy horses, planning to trade them. 

ਧਨੁ ਖਟੈ ਆਸਾ ਕਰੈ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਵਧਾਵੈ ॥ 
धनु खटै आसा करै माइआ मोहु वधावै ॥ 
Ḏẖan kẖatai āsā karai mā&shy;i&shy;ā moh vaḏẖāvai. 
They hope to earn wealth; their attachment to Maya increases. 

ਤਿਉ ਹਰਿ ਜਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਬੋਲਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਬੋਲਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੨॥ 
तिउ हरि जनु हरि हरि बोलता हरि बोलि सुखु पावै ॥२॥ 
Ŧi&shy;o har jan har har bolṯā har bol sukẖ pāvai. ||2|| 
In just the same way, the Lord's humble servants chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har; chanting the Lord's Name, they find peace. ||2|| 

ਬਿਖੁ ਸੰਚੈ ਹਟਵਾਣੀਆ ਬਹਿ ਹਾਟਿ ਕਮਾਇ ॥ 
बिखु संचै हटवाणीआ बहि हाटि कमाइ ॥ 
Bikẖ sancẖai hatvāṇī&shy;ā bahi hāt kamā&shy;ė. 
The shop-keepers collect poison, sitting in their shops, carrying on their business. 

ਮੋਹ ਝੂਠੁ ਪਸਾਰਾ ਝੂਠ ਕਾ ਝੂਠੇ ਲਪਟਾਇ ॥ 
मोह झूठु पसारा झूठ का झूठे लपटाइ ॥ 
Moh jẖūṯẖ pasārā jẖūṯẖ kā jẖūṯẖė laptā&shy;ė. 
Their love is false, their displays are false, and they are engrossed in falsehood. 

ਤਿਉ ਹਰਿ ਜਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਸੰਚਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਖਰਚੁ ਲੈ ਜਾਇ ॥੩॥ 
तिउ हरि जनि हरि धनु संचिआ हरि खरचु लै जाइ ॥३॥ 
Ŧi&shy;o har jan har ḏẖan sancẖi&shy;ā har kẖaracẖ lai jā&shy;ė. ||3|| 
In just the same way, the Lord's humble servants gather the wealth of the Lord's Name; they take the Lord's Name as their supplies. ||3|| 

ਇਹੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹ ਕੁਟੰਬੁ ਹੈ ਭਾਇ ਦੂਜੈ ਫਾਸ ॥ 
इहु माइआ मोह कुट्मबु है भाइ दूजै फास ॥ 
Ih mā&shy;i&shy;ā moh kutamb hai bẖā&shy;ė ḏūjai fās. 
This emotional attachment to Maya and family, and the love of duality, is a noose around the neck. 

ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਸੋ ਜਨੁ ਤਰੈ ਜੋ ਦਾਸਨਿ ਦਾਸ ॥ 
गुरमती सो जनु तरै जो दासनि दास ॥ 
Gurmaṯī so jan ṯarai jo ḏāsan ḏās. 
Following the Guru's Teachings, the humble servants are carried across; they become the slaves of the Lord's slaves. 

ਜਨਿ ਨਾਨਕਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਰਗਾਸ ॥੪॥੩॥੯॥੪੭॥ 
जनि नानकि नामु धिआइआ गुरमुखि परगास ॥४॥३॥९॥४७॥ 
Jan Nānak nām ḏẖi&shy;ā&shy;i&shy;ā gurmukẖ pargās. ||4||3||9||47|| 
Servant Nanak meditates on the Naam; the Gurmukh is enlightened. ||4||3||9||47||


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## pk70

Sikh80 said:


> ~SSA~ Pk70 ji,
> 
> Thanks for your observations and comments and the pains that you might have taken in quoting from the Granth sahib ji.
> 
> You have highlighted extracts of some previous post.It looks that you have not liked something in particular in that post.
> 
> Kindly let us have the benefit as to that you have not liked.
> 
> Yes, the entire thread is based on the previous established writings. My contribution is almost nil in all the threads.
> 
> One tend to deviate from the previous literature if it is found defective in some way and that is prejudicial to the interest to the sikhism or the set of belief contained in are not acceptable.In the present case the article is authored by Mr. Daljeet singh, the writings of whom are well respected and relied upon. In this thread there is no interpretation of any line. Yes, there are some valuable contribution of some members.
> 
> Coming To 'Naam', it is my belief that no one can state anything about Naam for the reasons that it is not well explained and even if it is explained it would be as per individual's understanding only.It is not a term of science that it has a precise meaning. If God is limitless so should be the Naam that is almost HE Himself. One can form a broad idea as to what it is. You may also like to opine on this.
> 
> A healthy discussion is always welcome
> 
> I shall request you to kindly let me know as that has bothered you. It shall help me in preparing the small write ups that I do prepare while reading and learning.
> 
> Warm Regards


 

Sat Sree AKAAL ! Sikh 80 ji

Not at all,I didnt question any thing this time but just was replying about what you asked for.I know the problem?  I just replied to one of your thread. I am not good at computer thing;I usually read and write. If you can find the Sikh Review of January 2008, I wrote an article though disappointed as they edited its core message.  its heading is" Creator premeates all creation. While writing it is easy but typing on a thread is a little hard for me since I started recently. What I did, I just found a posting by you and clicked " Quate" I didnt high light any thing, so there is nothing to be pointed out. It is sheer misunderstanding because of my being naive in thread discussion. Still feel difficulty to copy and paste. I shall learn it. I feel good to share ideas related with Sikh cause and learn from others.
Thanks. Keep going on your path.
pk70 
HAR bisrat sda khuaari


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## Sikh80

~SSA~ Pk ji,
It is nice that you replied to the thread. It is also very nice to learn that you are an author.I shall check up the article that is stated by you. In the meantime It is requested that you may kindly post anything  that you like in this thread for the advancement of the thread. I do not have much that is original. I am just posting and pasting the thoughts of others.

Regards.


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## Sikh80

The Guru, in effect, means that to matters that are beyond the spacio-temporal world, it would be wrong to apply the spacio-temporal logic, and yet man knows of no other logic or language. Perforce, He has to be explained, howsoever inadequately or symbolically, only in terms of that language. 

That is why the Guru has cautioned us against the pitfalls and inadequacy of human logic and language to comprehend the Timeless One. All the same, the Guru has mentioned the state when the Transcendent God was all by Himself and there was no creation. The Gurus say, "When there was no form in sight, how could there be good or bad actions? When God was in the Self-Absorbed state, there could be no enmity or conflict.


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## Sikh80

ਆਸਾ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੧  ॥ 
आसा महला १ ॥ 
Asa Mesure. 1st Guru. 

ਆਖਾ  ਜੀਵਾ  ਵਿਸਰੈ  ਮਰਿ  ਜਾਉ  ॥ 
आखा जीवा विसरै मरि जाउ ॥ 
By repeating Thy Name I live. By forgetting it, I die. 

ਆਖਣਿ  ਅਉਖਾ  ਸਾਚਾ  ਨਾਉ  ॥ 
आखणि अउखा साचा नाउ ॥ 
Difficult it is to repeat the True Name. 

ਸਾਚੇ  ਨਾਮ  ਕੀ  ਲਾਗੈ  ਭੂਖ  ॥ 
साचे नाम की लागै भूख ॥ 
If man feels appetite for the True Name, 

ਤਿਤੁ  ਭੂਖੈ  ਖਾਇ  ਚਲੀਅਹਿ  ਦੂਖ  ॥੧॥ 
तितु भूखै खाइ चलीअहि दूख ॥१॥ 
then, that appetite consumes his pains. 

ਸੋ  ਕਿਉ  ਵਿਸਰੈ  ਮੇਰੀ  ਮਾਇ  ॥ 
सो किउ विसरै मेरी माइ ॥ 
How can He be forgotten O my Mother? 

ਸਾਚਾ  ਸਾਹਿਬੁ  ਸਾਚੈ  ਨਾਇ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥ 
साचा साहिबु साचै नाइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ 
True is the Lord and true is His Name. Pause. 

ਸਾਚੇ  ਨਾਮ  ਕੀ  ਤਿਲੁ  ਵਡਿਆਈ  ॥ 
साचे नाम की तिलु वडिआई ॥ 
Of even a fraction of the greatness of the True Name, 

ਆਖਿ  ਥਕੇ  ਕੀਮਤਿ  ਨਹੀ  ਪਾਈ  ॥ 
आखि थके कीमति नही पाई ॥ 
people have grown weary of recounting, but have not been able to appraise it. 

ਜੇ  ਸਭਿ  ਮਿਲਿ  ਕੈ  ਆਖਣ  ਪਾਹਿ  ॥ 
जे सभि मिलि कै आखण पाहि ॥ 
Were all men to meet and glorify Thee, 

ਵਡਾ  ਨ  ਹੋਵੈ  ਘਾਟਿ  ਨ  ਜਾਇ  ॥੨॥ 
वडा न होवै घाटि न जाइ ॥२॥ 
Thou would grow neither greater nor lesser. 

ਨਾ  ਓਹੁ  ਮਰੈ  ਨ  ਹੋਵੈ  ਸੋਗੁ  ॥ 
ना ओहु मरै न होवै सोगु ॥ 
That Lord dies not nor there is any mourning (on that account). 

ਦੇਂਦਾ  ਰਹੈ  ਨ  ਚੂਕੈ  ਭੋਗੁ  ॥ 
देंदा रहै न चूकै भोगु ॥ 
He continues to give and His provisions never run short. 

ਗੁਣੁ  ਏਹੋ  ਹੋਰੁ  ਨਾਹੀ  ਕੋਇ  ॥ 
गुणु एहो होरु नाही कोइ ॥ 
This is His vitrue that none else is like Him. 

ਨਾ  ਕੋ  ਹੋਆ  ਨਾ  ਕੋ  ਹੋਇ  ॥੩॥ 
ना को होआ ना को होइ ॥३॥ 
There has been none, nor there shall be any. 

ਜੇਵਡੁ  ਆਪਿ  ਤੇਵਡ  ਤੇਰੀ  ਦਾਤਿ  ॥ 
जेवडु आपि तेवड तेरी दाति ॥ 
As great as Thou art, O Lord so great are Thine gifts. 

ਜਿਨਿ  ਦਿਨੁ  ਕਰਿ  ਕੈ  ਕੀਤੀ  ਰਾਤਿ  ॥ 
जिनि दिनु करि कै कीती राति ॥ 
Thine is the personality who makest the day and the night, too. 

ਖਸਮੁ  ਵਿਸਾਰਹਿ  ਤੇ  ਕਮਜਾਤਿ  ॥ 
खसमु विसारहि ते कमजाति ॥ 
Vile are they who forget their Master. 

ਨਾਨਕ  ਨਾਵੈ  ਬਾਝੁ  ਸਨਾਤਿ  ॥੪॥੨॥ 
नानक नावै बाझु सनाति ॥४॥२॥ 
O Nanak, the True One Himself is the embellisher.


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## Sikh80

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਸੁਣਣਾ  ਸਾਚਾ  ਨਾਉ  ॥ 
गुरमुखि सुणणा साचा नाउ ॥ 
From the Guru, hear thou the True Name. 

ਨਾਨਕ  ਆਖਣੁ  ਵੇਰਾ  ਵੇਰ  ॥ 
नानक आखणु वेरा वेर ॥ 
Nanak, again and again repeat thou the Name of the Master.


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## Sikh80

ਆਸਾ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੧  ॥ 
आसा महला १ ॥ 
Asa Measure. 1st Guru. 

ਕਰਮ  ਕਰਤੂਤਿ  ਬੇਲਿ  ਬਿਸਥਾਰੀ  ਰਾਮ  ਨਾਮੁ  ਫਲੁ  ਹੂਆ  ॥ 
करम करतूति बेलि बिसथारी राम नामु फलु हूआ ॥ 
The vine of good actions and true character is spread out and it bears the fruit of Lord's Name. 

ਤਿਸੁ  ਰੂਪੁ  ਨ  ਰੇਖ  ਅਨਾਹਦੁ  ਵਾਜੈ  ਸਬਦੁ  ਨਿਰੰਜਨਿ  ਕੀਆ  ॥੧॥ 
तिसु रूपु न रेख अनाहदु वाजै सबदु निरंजनि कीआ ॥१॥ 
The Name has no form or outline and it resounds spontaneously. Through the Name, the pure Lord is revealed. 

ਕਰੇ  ਵਖਿਆਣੁ  ਜਾਣੈ  ਜੇ  ਕੋਈ  ॥ 
करे वखिआणु जाणै जे कोई ॥ 
IF one understands the Name, then, alone he can discourse there-on. 

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ  ਪੀਵੈ  ਸੋਈ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥ 
अम्रितु पीवै सोई ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ 
He alone quaffs the Nectar (of the Name). Pause.

_ang351_


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## Sikh80

*Without the True Guru, no one has obtained the Lord; without the True Guru, no one has obtained the Lord.*
*
*
*He has placed Himself within the True Guru; revealing Himself, He declares this openly.*
*
*
*Meeting the True Guru, eternal liberation is obtained; He has banished attachment from within.*
*
*
*This is the highest thought, that one's consciousness is attached to the True Lord.*


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## Sikh80

Gurmat: Naam - Simran - and Gurmantra


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## pk70

Sikh80 said:


> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!
> Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!
> 
> There seems to be a widespread confusion about Naam, Simran, and Gurmantra. We will discuss some important characteristics of the all three together, because they are closely related. This article is bound to be long. To avoid distractions, there are no references for the quotes. As always, an attempt is made to write the entire contents according to Gurbani. Just read it and then verify it with Gurbani. Then, please point out my mistakes.
> 
> SAT SREE AKAAL Sikh80 ji
> 
> I must applaud you for searching Gurbani and sharing with Sikh fellows. You have tried to take basic points and in a suggestive language.Also you tried to explain them. When you cover a big area, some problems do occur; all the same, it was my pleasure to share my approach in that context.
> 
> Many of the questions put on this site are triggered by either misinterpretation of Gurbani or confusion around the words used in Gurbani.I used to confuse on these points before but not any more after studying Guru Granth. Many couldnt satisfy my quest  save for Dr Sahib Singh, Gurbachan Singh Talib and Pr. Teja Singh and Dr Baldev Singh Scientist (USA) who strictly tried to follw Satguru’s Gurmat. On various issues, you can still disagree with the said scholars but it is not much though. Why do I regard their works close to Gurmat ideology? Because they kept totality of Gurmat in mind while working on Gurbani. I did over come my confusion after finding difficult Gurwak interpreted by Guru Sahiban themselves and found no contradiction in it as some peudo scholars claim.
> 
> If any one is interested really to understand Gurbani and practice accordingly, he/she should start with mool mantra. I shall try to explain all points discussed in Sikh 80’s post in concise text. Interpretations by Guru Sahibaan in GGS Ji are priceless in this context.
> 
> Satguru Nanak started with “Ikk Onkar”, it is an answer to his followers about the supreme being. Regardless the different claims people have about Him, He is one, it is defined in various Shabad also by hinting about “ kete Nama”. Followers are warned in Gurbani not to fall for any other One repeatedly through out GGS ji  like”tudh bin dooja ko nahi, tu raheaa smayee” Rag Mlar ki Var Mehla 1  (1291). Ikk Onkar is also known in GGS ji as SACHA, NAAM, SHABAD, GURU. GURDEV, GURGOPALA. Many times people took the word Guru in all contexts as Guru Nanak and his sroops when they read Gurbani. That is a mistake Also stressed is given about Ikk Onkar in Asa Mehla I : Sahib mera eko hai 11 eko hai bhai ekko hai(350)( My master is one only one.)Dr Sahib Singh gives in Guru Granth Darpan, examples after examples how The creator was called in various words such as Sacha, Naam, Shabad, Gurdev, Gurgopala.like at page919, 943 etc. List goes on.
> 
> Then comes answer for the theistic, “ SATNAAM” in this context, “Sat” means reality and existence. Some translate it as true but best meaning suits here in this context after the word Ikk Onkar, is reality and existence; it is declared that He is just not an assumption or presumption or mere myth but a reality.
> “KARTAPURAKH” this word removes a lot of confusion about the Almighty. He is a creator, active, all is His Creation. People get rewards; achievements etc are all as per His Ordinance. Whatever is done is due to Him, none other should take credit of any thing because only His Will prevails.
> NIRBUO NIRVAIR, Creator has not fear of any one since He has created everything visible or invisible., He is beyond animosity, it is not possible He can have animosity.
> 
> “AKAALMURAT AJUNI” both words are related to each other. If there is birth, death follows; it is basic principle of nature. So Ikkonkar is beyond birth and death. Any one takes birth has to die. The Enlightened personalities faced the natural principle; however, Tha Absolute One is above this principle. If Sikhs in this context dare to say He incarnates, or He came in the form of Satguru, they are simply disrespecting Satguru in a horrible way. Compliments given to Guru should be decipher as” they were like Him” See page 931,  one who realizes him becomes like Him”, however, He doesn’t take birth, very strict instruction to the Sikhs is given in Moolmantra, how low they can stoop to violate this Hukam Bharu Mehal 5 ghar 1(1136) Satguru curses such idiots. Another example may be suitable here. A Mother dearly loves her son and says” mera putt tan raja hai” her comment doesn’t mean in reality her son is a king. Satgur is revered so highly in Sikhism because Satguru leads the seekers to HIM and helps the seeker to get free from the chains of Maya.Satguru is worthy of that esteem. The Ultimate worship is performed to The Supreme Being. Ardaas is (should be) addressed to Him only
> ਪਉੜੀ॥ਕੀਤਾਲੋੜੀਐਕੰਮੁਸੁਹਰਿਪਹਿਆਖੀਐ॥ਕਾਰਜੁਦੇਇਸਵਾਰਿਸਤਿਗੁਰਸਚੁਸਾਖੀਐ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ91}
> In essence. Pray to The almighty if you are in need to do something. With the guidance of Satguru , His blessings , wish comes true certainly.
> Then SWEMBH” means He is from Himself, self extent, no one did or could establish or create Him, He illuminates by Himself. Though Satguru has tried to express the inexpressible, he also declares that actually because of His being Infinite, it is not possible to explain Him in words.
> “GURPARSAD” some scholars say it means that He can be known by His grace only, many say that He can be realized with the blessings of Guru. In Guru Granth Sahib the later meaning is stressed through. His grace is considered extremely important.also I take both meanings for me to proceed on the Gurmatt. The next waak is about His eternity; His existence was, is now and will be for ever.
> 
> 
> When Moolmantra is understood as interpreted by Guru Sahiban, Sikh needs to follow Gurmat path strictly. First , a battle within the mind should be started.Remember we are known as Sikhs.
> 
> NAAMSIMRAN ?NAAM JAPNA  usually as Sikh 80 explained in detail, repetition of Gurbani ( which is His praise )  without unconditional love for Him in the heart will not bring any fruit. There should be longing for Him, a feeling of separation from Him in the heart. How many we feel separation from Him? Answer lies in our over involvement of worldly affairs.  If one is happy what one is having and very much involved in it, his singing Gurbani is a ritual.His love serves as a kind of intoxication and elevates souls to higher state. Ritual is nothing more than a conditional behaviour, while being in it, other stuff can take over the mind(it does we all know, doesnt it?). Even visiting Gurudawara should be taken seriously.
> Go there to get something from the Guru. Get Hukamnama, get it into mind, check all the time if Guru Hukam is not disobeyed. Reciting, singing Gurbani, just merely taking Hukamnama and talking about it is not sufficient provided something inside our heart is posted to check on our  own deeds.
> 
> Simran techniques are explained by many. To me some time they appear to be yoga exercises. Many cannot understand these if they don’t have special talent to meditiate on mind and then move it towards His memory. They talk about sounds, the practice. I personally feel that Sikhs should take Gurmat as a practical way. Here are a few ideas I can share. The best  hint about simran I got from Satgur. Is In Maru Mehla 1
> ਮਾਰੂਮਹਲਾ੧॥ਕੋਈਆਖੈਭੂਤਨਾਕੋਕਹੈਬੇਤਾਲਾ॥ਕੋਈਆਖੈਆਦਮੀਨਾਨਕੁਵੇਚਾਰਾ॥੧॥ਭਇਆਦਿਵਾਨਾਸਾਹਕਾਨਾਨਕੁਬਉਰਾਨਾ॥ਹਉਹਰਿਬਿਨੁਅਵਰੁਨਜਾਨਾ॥੧॥ਰਹਾਉ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ991}
> In essence: People judged Satguru to be a person who just got lost. They didn’t think Satguru  fell for The Creator. None other than Him was in His mind. )
> Well that is what happens when one falls in love with Him. Remember falling for a person can drag the minds to the extent of craziness! So falling for Him is more powerful. Be aware! Thinking is changed, behaviour is changed and society starts giving strange look because the approach towards life is changed.  He starts guiding the soul against all odds.
> 
> His Simran is not limited to Shabad kirtan only, the practical aspect is huge. Take a look
> ਰੂੜੀਬਾਣੀਹਰਿਪਾਇਆਗੁਰਸਬਦੀਬੀਚਾਰਿ॥ਆਪੁਗਇਆਦੁਖੁਕਟਿਆਹਰਿਵਰੁਪਾਇਆਨਾਰਿ॥੪੭॥ {ਪੰਨਾ936} M-1
> ( In essence   Almighty is realized with Guru guidance, all ego(me) disappeared, pains/sorrows gone and soul lady has realized Almighty Spouse) How? By battling with mind  which is grossly involved with maya.While being in love with Him, thoughts about Him take over the control of heart.
> 
> More  ਰਾਜਨਰਾਮਰਵੈਹਿਤਕਾਰਿ॥ਰਣਮਹਿਲੂਝੈਮਨੂਆਮਾਰਿ॥ਰਾਤਿਦਿਨੰਤਿਰਹੈਰੰਗਿਰਾਤਾ॥ਤੀਨਿਭਵਨਜੁਗਚਾਰੇਜਾਤਾ॥ ....  {ਪੰਨਾ931}
> ( In essence  King Lord is contemplated with all heart by battling with own mind. Result was good, I have become absorbed with Him and have seen Him in whole world and over.)
> 
> How one can expect a seed to grow if needed land and atmosphere are not provided. It is that simple to understand realization of Him. A strong longing for Him in a heart that is battling against the odds (primal forces like ego etc) is mandatory to meditiate on Him. Without that, keep reading, keep chanting all the effects will be negated by the trash we are facing with every day under the name of wealth, achievements, rewards etc. Sikh just works on a job, manages a business, does( whatever stage he /she is put on)but his/her love for Him dominates all.
> No need to urgue on what is Naam, basically it is HIM and our relation to Him. First of all, a relation is needed to be accepted by our minds. Relationship doesn’t survive without love. Without love relationship dies its own slow death.Take example of any relation on this earth. To establish the relationship with Him is a big deal, believe me. Following the crowd mentality can push us away from our real aim of life.Satgur says that don’t doubt for a second, if a longing for Him is established within mind, His grace will follow
> ਸੂਹੀਮਹਲਾ੧॥ਜਿਨਕਉਭਾਂਡੈਭਾਉਤਿਨਾਸਵਾਰਸੀ॥ਸੂਖੀਕਰੈਪਸਾਉਦੂਖਵਿਸਾਰਸੀ॥ਸਹਸਾਮੂਲੇਨਾਹਿਸਰਪਰਤਾਰਸੀ॥੧॥ {ਪੰਨਾ729}
> ( In essence If persons have true love for him, a strong longing is there , doubtlessly His grace will follow and all pains will disappear.) It is a guarantee from Satguru. Then why NaAM simran is not taken seriously by following Satguru strictly. The last half part of Sikh80’s post advocates same idea I have shared with you here.
> Rest another time.
> 
> 
> 
> Bhul chuk m
> aaf.


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## Sikh80

Namjap ji,
What is your view on this Article.It is by Daljeet Singh.


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## Astroboy

Sikh80 Ji,

I am truly happy for you that pk70 is sharing Gurbani Vichaar with you and that you are both like-minded. It is a rare opportunity to have satsangat online, like this. I'm enjoying every bit of your info and am learning at a tremendous speed from both your company.

*"the lowliest of the low," [1. p. 15] 
and never does he mention another person as ?That is Thou.? According to tradition, the Fifth Guru declined to include in Guru Granth Sahib a hymn by a contemporary saint, Bhagat Kaanhaa, saying, 
"I am He, O, I am the same," because this hymn was felt by the Guru to be evidently contrary to the Sikh thesis that man is not and can never be God, though he can be His instrument. 
*
Waheguru waheguru waheguru waheguru, Sikh80 Ji!!

and Waheguru waheguru waheguru waheguru, pk70 Ji !!!

*When Moolmantra is understood as interpreted by Guru Sahiban, Sikh needs to follow Gurmat path strictly. First , a battle within the mind should be started.Remember we are known as Sikhs.
*


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## pk70

namjap ji

Thanks
I must compliment to sikh80 for his open mind( as you have). Share an idea with him or question  his idea, he gladly accepts it if his mind agrees with it; if not, he asks further explanation unlike closed mind persons who start throwing judgemets. Very interested in learning about Sikhi. I advised him, the anwer is in Guru Granth Sahib if studied in its totality.


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## Astroboy

Simran does not differentiate between persons on the basis of religion or nationality. It is a way of life that is based on right conduct and moral values and that ensures a human being the peace of mind in all circumstances. It
is a spiritual science and moral hygiene that cures
the mind of tensions and worries, rids the soul free
of the dross and dirt and clears the conscience of
evil influences (vices). 

Sikh80 Ji,

What a powerful statement. The power lies in its subtleness. It's invisibility.


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## Sikh80

Yes,you are right Namjap  ji everything that elevates the mind is wonderful.


"When the awareness dawns that we are alienated from God there arises in the heart an acute hunger for the attainment of that exalted Spirit. Only then do we setout to seek an accomplished teacher, a realized ;(Guru)"


For us everything is said to be in Granth sahib ji. But I strongly feel that there should be some classes for this. My knowledge is very shallow. I want to learn more.
Thanks for the wonderful  write up.


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## Astroboy

PK70 Ji, Sikh80 Ji and All Sadh sangat Jeeo,

*It is a way of life that is based on right conduct and moral values and that ensures a human being the peace of mind in all circumstances.*

These particular words express what goes on in my mind/consciousness every night before I go to sleep. It is like a replay button that scans the whole day's activities. 


If I have said something to someone that not exactly true, this replay button gives me the opportunity to review the event. It offers me a second chance in expressing myself in a more honest way.


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## Sikh80

Dear namjap ji,

  It always nice to go through your posts.

  Right conduct is righteousness that leads to contentment and it is a contended mind that props up righteousness; in a way this a cyclic process and it is only this kind of living that leads to compassion, spiritual repose and consistency. 

  I am quoting the following from Jap ji Sahib that I was going through a while ago.

ਧੌਲੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਦਇਆ ਕਾ ਪੂਤੁ ॥ 
 ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਥਾਪਿ ਰਖਿਆ ਜਿਨਿ ਸੂਤਿ ॥ 
 ਜੇ ਕੋ ਬੁਝੈ ਹੋਵੈ ਸਚਿਆਰੁ ॥ 
 ਧਵਲੈ ਉਪਰਿ ਕੇਤਾ ਭਾਰੁ ॥ 
 ਧਰਤੀ ਹੋਰੁ ਪਰੈ ਹੋਰੁ ਹੋਰੁ ॥ 
ਤਿਸ ਤੇ ਭਾਰੁ ਤਲੈ ਕਵਣੁ ਜੋਰੁ ॥ 
​  The bull of righteousness that is stated to have supported the earth is the son of  compassion and mercy.[literal meaning]

In essence Lord has made the rule that entire creation shall get support from righteousness. It is the Hukum. This righteousness leads to contentment. One who is able to make this out is the one who becomes truthful. In the paudi-1 the same question is posed :

ikv sicAwrw hoeIAY ikv kUVY qutY pwil ] (1-6, jpu, mÚ 1)

  Thus one who has attained this kind of understanding that it is the righteousness that is supporting the entire creation becomes truthful; one understands HIS Hukum and will; and one becomes contended and at peace with oneself .

  In this Paudi and in the last three lines of the above ,Guru Nanak dev ji is asking from Sidhas as to what is the support of the earth and if the earth is supported by any mythological bull then what is the support to the Bull. Guru explains that the logic of Sidhas is not worth sustaining and shall not stand to logic if it is stated that the bull is supported by another earth. In this way there will be anomaly that there shall be many earths. However, the message conveyed is that entire creation is supported by the righteousness only and it is this that  leads to contentment.

It is an achievement if you are always at peace. Please let us have the trick ; besides that you have stated above.

Regards


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## Astroboy

Naam Simran_ 9 Minutes_


 Wahe Guru_ 71 Minutes_


 Sat Nam Sat Nam Ji_  3 Minutes_


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## Astroboy

This is the greatest misunderstanding which man has with regards to value, worth and wealth. 

ਰਤਨੁ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਕਉਡੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਰਚੈ ॥ 
रतनु तिआगि कउडी संगि रचै ॥ 
Raṯan ṯi&shy;āg ka&shy;udī sang racẖai. 
Forsaking the jewel, they are engrossed with a shell. 

ਸਾਚੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਝੂਠ ਸੰਗਿ ਮਚੈ ॥ 
साचु छोडि झूठ संगि मचै ॥ 
Sācẖ cẖẖod jẖūṯẖ sang macẖai. 
They renounce Truth and embrace falsehood. 

ਜੋ ਛਡਨਾ ਸੁ ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨੈ ॥ 
जो छडना सु असथिरु करि मानै ॥ 
Jo cẖẖadnā so asthir kar mānai. 
That which passes away, they believe to be permanent. 

ਜੋ ਹੋਵਨੁ ਸੋ ਦੂਰਿ ਪਰਾਨੈ ॥ 
जो होवनु सो दूरि परानै ॥ 
Jo hovan so ḏūr parānai. 
That which is immanent, they believe to be far off. 

ਛੋਡਿ ਜਾਇ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਸ੍ਰਮੁ ਕਰੈ ॥ 
छोडि जाइ तिस का स्रमु करै ॥ 
Cẖẖod jā&shy;ė ṯis kā saram karai. 
They struggle for what they must eventually leave. 

ਸੰਗਿ ਸਹਾਈ ਤਿਸੁ ਪਰਹਰੈ ॥ 
संगि सहाई तिसु परहरै ॥ 
Sang sahā&shy;ī ṯis parharai. 
They turn away from the Lord, their Help and Support, who is always with them.


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## Astroboy

Dya Singh (Australia) - Jap Man Satnam
Dya Singh (Australia) - Sat Nam Sat Nam Wahe Guru
Dya Singh (Australia) - Jup Jup Jup


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## Sikh80

Re: Anhad Sabad - WAHEGURU GURMANTAR HAI


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## Sikh80

http://www.sikhcoalition.org/Sikhism3.asp
Essentials of Sikhism


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## Sikh80

*This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Siree Raag on Pannaa 89 *

pauVI ]
     po*u*rr*ee* ||
              Pauree:              

so AYsw hir nwmu iDAweIAY mn myry jo sBnw aupir hukmu clwey ]
     s*o* *ai*s*aa* har n*aa*m dhh*i**aa**ee**ai* man m*ae*r*ae* j*o* sabhan*aa* o*u*par h*u*kam chal*aa*e*ae* ||
Meditate on that Name of the Lord, O my mind, whose Command rules over all.


so AYsw hir nwmu jpIAY mn myry jo AMqI Aausir ley Cfwey ]
     s*o* *ai*s*aa* har n*aa*m jap*ee**ai* man m*ae*r*ae* j*o* a(n)th*ee* ao*u*sar le*ae* shhadd*aa*e*ae* ||
Chant that Name of the Lord, O my mind, which will save you at the very last moment.


so AYsw hir nwmu jpIAY mn myry ju mn kI iqRsnw sB BuK gvwey ]
     s*o* *ai*s*aa* har n*aa*m jap*ee**ai* man m*ae*r*ae* j man k*ee* thr*i*san*aa* sabh bh*u*kh gav*aa*e*ae* ||
              Chant that Name of the Lord, O my mind, which shall drive out all hunger and desire from your mind.              


so gurmuiK nwmu jipAw vfBwgI iqn inMdk dust siB pYrI pwey ]
     s*o* g*u*ram*u*kh n*aa*m jap*i**aa* vaddabh*aa*g*ee* th*i*n n*i*(n)dhak dh*u*satt sabh p*ai*r*ee* p*aa*e*ae* ||
Very fortunate and blessed is that Gurmukh who chants the Naam; it shall bring all slanderers and wicked enemies to fall at his feet. 

nwnk nwmu ArwiD sBnw qy vfw siB nwvY AgY Awix invwey ]15]
     n*aa*nak n*aa*m ar*aa*dhh sabhan*aa* th*ae* vadd*aa* sabh n*aa*v*ai* ag*ai* *aa*n n*i*v*aa*e*ae* ||15||
O Nanak, worship and adore the Naam, the Greatest Name of all, before which all come and bow. ||15||​


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## Sikh80

*This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 240 *

 gauVI mhlw 5 ]
     go*u*rr*ee* mehal*aa* 5 ||
_Gauree, Fifth Mehla:_
imlu myry goibMd Apnw nwmu dyhu ]
     m*i*l m*ae*r*ae* g*o*b*i*(n)dh apan*aa* n*aa*m dh*ae*h*u* ||
_Meet me, O my Lord of the Universe. Please bless me with Your Name._


nwm ibnw iDRgu iDRgu Asnyhu ]1] rhwau ]
     n*aa*m b*i*n*aa* dhhr*i*g dhhr*i*g asan*ae*h*u* ||1|| reh*aa*o ||
_Without the Naam, the Name of the Lord, cursed, cursed is love and intimacy. ||1||Pause||_


nwm ibnw jo pihrY Kwie ]
     n*aa*m b*i*n*aa* j*o* peh*i*r*ai* kh*aa*e ||
_Without the Naam, one who dresses and eats well_


ijau kUkru jUTn mih pwie ]1]
     j*i*o k*oo*kar j*oo*t(h)an meh*i* p*aa*e ||1||
_is like a dog, who falls in and eats impure foods. ||1||_


nwm ibnw jyqw ibauhwru ] ijau imrqk imiQAw sIgwru ]2]
     n*aa*m b*i*n*aa* j*ae*th*aa* b*i*o*u*h*aa*r || j*i*o m*i*rathak m*i*thh*i**aa* s*ee*g*aa*r ||2||
_Without the Naam, all occupations are useless, like decorations on a dead body. ||2||_



nwmu ibswir kry rs Bog ]
     n*aa*m b*i*s*aa*r kar*ae* ras bh*o*g ||
_One who forgets the Naam and indulges in pleasures,_



suKu supnY nhI qn mih rog ]3]
     s*u*kh s*u*pan*ai* neh*ee* than meh*i* r*o*g ||3||
_shall find no peace, even in dreams; his body shall become diseased. ||3||_



nwmu iqAwig kry An kwj ]
     n*aa*m th*i**aa*g kar*ae* an k*aa*j ||
_One who renounces the Naam and engages in other occupations,_


ibnis jwie JUTy siB pwj ]4]
     b*i*nas j*aa*e jh*oo*t(h)*ae* sabh p*aa*j ||4||
_shall see all of his false pretenses fall away. ||4||_



nwm sMig min pRIiq n lwvY ]
     n*aa*m sa(n)g man pr*ee*th n l*aa*v*ai* ||
_One whose mind does not embrace love for the Naam_



koit krm krqo nrik jwvY ]5]
     k*o*tt karam karath*o* narak j*aa*v*ai* ||5||
_shall go to hell, even though he may perform millions of ceremonial rituals. ||5||_



hir kw nwmu ijin min n AwrwDw ]
     har k*aa* n*aa*m j*i*n man n *aa*r*aa*dhh*aa* ||
_One whose mind does not contemplate the Name of the Lord_



cor kI inAweI jm puir bwDw ]6]
     ch*o*r k*ee* n*i**aa**ee* jam p*u*r b*aa*dhh*aa* ||6||
_is bound like a thief, in the City of Death. ||6||_



lwK AfMbr bhuqu ibsQwrw ]
     l*aa*kh adda(n)bar bah*u*th b*i*sathh*aa*r*aa* ||
_Hundreds of thousands of ostentatious shows and great expanses_


nwm ibnw JUTy pwswrw ]7]
     n*aa*m b*i*n*aa* jh*oo*t(h)*ae* p*aa*s*aa*r*aa* ||7||
_- without the Naam, all these displays are false. ||7||_


hir kw nwmu soeI jnu lyie ]
     har k*aa* n*aa*m s*o**ee* jan l*ae*e ||
_That humble being repeats the Name of the Lord,_


kir ikrpw nwnk ijsu dyie ]8]10]
     kar k*i*rap*aa* n*aa*nak j*i*s dh*ae*e ||8||10||
_O Nanak, whom the Lord blesses with His Mercy. ||8||10||

_​


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## Sikh80

Re: Daily Simran?


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa

veer Ji,

It is against the hukam of Panj Piare to disclose the technique for saas giras simran.  I urge you to speak to the Panj Piare who gave you this instruction and too exercize sanjam on this topic, as I myself have been corrected for saying too much detail.


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## Sikh80

Harjas Kaur Khalsa said:


> veer Ji,
> 
> It is against the hukam of Panj Piare to disclose the technique for saas giras simran.  I urge you to speak to the Panj Piare who gave you this instruction and too exercize sanjam on this topic, as I myself have been corrected for saying too much detail.



Thanks for pointing out.
It is noted for future compliance.

Regards.


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## Sikh80

Simran: Remembrance - A Stepping stone to Peace


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## mahandeva

_SatNamJi,_
_In reading your post, I am reminded of a quote from my teacher, Yogi Bhajan._
_"*IF YOU CANNOT SEE GOD IN ALL, YOU CANNOT SEE GOD AT ALL'*_
_I have much to learn in this life and as I do my daily banis, I  find all of life's answers thru Guru's words.  Hearing throughout my day the precious words of Guru's shabd guides me in the direction of truth. Wahe Guru!_
_Guru Nanak Ji tells us quite simply in JapJi. 
* "JAP"-Chant & Meditate*
It has been the Guru's words that have  healed me after many years  of illness,
and it is the Guru's words alone that save me from worry, despair and anger.
I have found my true home in the Blessed security of Guru's Bani.
Being in this human form is a gift which can be wonderful & difficult.
The SiriGuru Granth Sahib serves as an "Owner's Manual" instructing us on how 
to live our lives in Peace and Contentment.
How does one connect to the spirit of the Soul without the contemplation of Nam? I do not know.
Through teaching kundalini yoga, I see many people "stuck" in their limited minds.
Through the experience of chanting Nam in meditation, (I teach Kundalini Yoga as taught by Yogi Bhajan who based his teaching on Sikh values and Guru's words) students become "lighter" as the inner calm takes over. 
As Guru's Grace shows on their faces, I feel the Infinite Blessing of the 
spirit in All.
May the Longtime Sun Shine Upon You,
All Love Surround you
And the Pure Light within you,
Guide your way on.
Sat Nam. _


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## Sikh80

Dear Mahandeva,
It is really interesting to learn that you are a teacher of kundalini Yoga. It may not be very appropriate  place to discuss Kundalini yoga.But we are handicapped by some constraints or the other.

We shall be grateful if you could, when you have the luxury of time, explain as to the concept and practice of this. I am sure many would be interested in this aspect of the unexplored area.


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## Sikh80

Bhairao, Third Mehl:

rwm nwmu jgq insqwrw ] (1129-3, BYrau, mÚ 3)
  The world is saved through Name of the Lord.

Bvjlu pwir auqwrxhwrw ]1] (1129-3, BYrau, mÚ 3)
  It carries the mortal across the terrifying world-ocean. ||1||

gur prswdI hir nwmu sm@wil ] (1129-4, BYrau, mÚ 3)
  By Guru's Grace, dwell upon the Lord's Name.

sd hI inbhY qyrY nwil ]1] rhwau ] (1129-4, BYrau, mÚ 3)
   It shall stand by you forever. ||1||Pause||

 nwmu n cyqih mnmuK gwvwrw ] (1129-4, BYrau, mÚ 3)
  The foolish self-willed manmukhs do not remember the Naam, [the Name of the Lord./superfluous]

ibnu nwvY kYsy pwvih pwrw ]2] (1129-5, BYrau, mÚ 3)
  Without the Name, how will they cross over? ||2||

Awpy dwiq kry dwqwru ] (1129-5, BYrau, mÚ 3)
  The Lord, the Great Giver, Himself gives His Gifts.

dyvxhwry kau jYkwru ]3] (1129-5, BYrau, mÚ 3)
  Celebrate and praise the Great Giver! ||3||

ndir kry siqgurU imlwey ] (1129-6, BYrau, mÚ 3)
  Granting His Grace, the Lord unites the mortals with the True Guru.

nwnk ihrdY nwmu vswey ]4]6] (1129-6, BYrau, mÚ 3)
  O Nanak, the Naam is enshrined within the heart. ||4||6||

BYrau mhlw 3 ] (1129-6)
  Bhairao, Third Mehl:

 nwmy auDry siB ijqny loA ] (1129-6, BYrau, mÚ 3)
  All people are saved through the Naam, [the Name of the Lord.-superfluous]

gurmuiK ijnw prwpiq hoie ]1] (1129-7, BYrau, mÚ 3)
  Those who become Gurmukh are blessed to receive It. ||1||

hir jIau ApxI ik®pw kryie ] (1129-7, BYrau, mÚ 3)
  When the Dear Lord showers His Mercy,

gurmuiK nwmu vifAweI dyie ]1] rhwau ] (1129-7, BYrau, mÚ 3)
  He blesses the Gurmukh with the glorious greatness of the Naam. ||1||Pause||

rwm nwim ijn pRIiq ipAwru ] (1129-8, BYrau, mÚ 3)
  Those who love the Beloved Name of the Lord

Awip auDry siB kul auDwrxhwru ]2] (1129-8, BYrau, mÚ 3)
  save themselves, and save all their ancestors. ||2||
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In the above sabads one finds reference to Name of Lord and Naam. 
1.Are these two significantly different?
. For me the name of the Lord is 'waheguru'.
 2.Is it not the name of Lord.?

What is 'Naam' then ;it is the sum total of devotional and spiritual aspect of sikhism.
_It may be too crude a question.But still it is a big question for me._
Naam is given by the Lord Himself. [bani]
 3.Is'waheguru ' not the Naam and name of Lord ?
 4.Are these not the same?

Kindly enlighten.


Regards!!
[/FONT]


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