# Baba Vadhbhag Singh Ji



## ISDhillon (Feb 4, 2006)

People watch video and learn about babaji instead of making up stories!:}--}: 


http://simarjot.com/simarjot/babavadbhagsinghji.php


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 7, 2006)

ISDhillon said:
			
		

> People watch video and learn about babaji instead of making up stories!:}--}:
> 
> http://simarjot.com/simarjot/babavadbhagsinghji.php


 
Some RANDOM thoughts by different people with whom I AGREE with are reproduced below.... But the Final Take is that this DERA is GHOR MANMATT and ANTI-SIKH, ANTI Sikh Rehat maryada on all counts.

1.There is no doubt that there are spirit possessions that take place.

But I don't think anyone going to this Dera is going to get any relief. Just by looking at it through video, it struck me that someone might get possessed by going but not be relieved.

The manmat of tying random cloths, baloons and even buckets to the Nishan Sahib is shocking. The old Babas and Bibis doing giddha and bhangra while chanting "Jai Babe Di" is also disturbing.

If someone is having troubles like this, the best solution is to get peshed an amrit sinchaar held by rehitvan Gursikhs. A Singh who did seva in an amrit sinchar where he saw things like this said that it is important to tie a dastaar and that makes a big difference.

2.This dera should by boycotted by all Sikhs. Even if Baba Vadbhag Singh was a Gursikh, the dera under his name is not a place for Gursikhs at all.

you can "understand sikhism on a deep level" as you wrote, but on this deep level, does it become acceptable for men to dress as women and dance the jago singing "Jai Babe Di!!"?

3.Does tying ballons and buckets to a nishan sahib also become acceptable when you understand Sikhism on a deep level?

Hanging pictures of Durga and Shiva must also be acceptable on the "deep level".

That Dera is manmat. Period.

4. ISDhillion jee, with all due respect i have also witnessed happenings at such deras, and I found it to be total Manmat.

IMHO, this is a very low level of cure, and more than anything it takes away peoples faith in Guru Sahib.

Maharaj Dhan Guru Granth Sahib jee and Naam is the ultimate cure, far higher than such babas and their deras.

Furthermore ISDhillion jee you state the following:

"...no disrespect I respect your rights to believe in this Bhai sahib but I only believe in SGGS and Khalsa."

Yet you still beleive in this dera. Forgive me, but in my opinion this is rather condradictory dont you think?

Whether you believe in Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Jee is irrelevant, His kamaai speaks for itself, through his jeevan and literature. People dont need to make videos to promote the sacrifices he made for the panth.

This is NOT Sikhi or Gurmatt...at any "level"..deep or shallow. It is all AANDH VISHWAAS..a throw back to the DARK AGES....witch hunts Friday 13th black magic etc etc.

IN MALAYSIA..too there is such a place.( private Gurdwara to take out bhoots)......but more interesting than that a KHALSA JI who was a Sikh Missionary tried a new experiment some years abck whereby he CUT the KESH of a supposedly possessed SIKH LADY, right in front of GURU GRANTH JI SAHIB in the Darbar...to CURE her of Possession... This "KHALSA JI" was BANNED from major Gurdwara Stages ( kirtan sewa)..he also peshed in front of Panj Piayarae and submitted his guilt. Only years later when people have forgotten his'foray into the world of baba wadbhag singh"...is he now accepted back as a kirtaniya kathakaar.. 

NOTHING is above GURBANI..the SAT NAAM...WAHEGURU. No Sikh should ever fall for this type of bull.
1. They have a Samadh of the Baba..totally agaisnt Rehat maryada and GURBANI which says NO praying at smadahs marrhis massanis..
2. They have objects tied to nishan Sahib for fulfillment of wishes..Totally agaisnt Gurbani and Gurmatt - plus insult to Nishan of Guru ji.
3 They have totally MONAS doing Kachi bani...
4. They have so called amritdharee singhs wearing female clothes and dancing wildly..what a parody of SINGHS
5 They have a manmatt of Panja on panjiri parshaad....no such thing ever happens - total lie to mislead the snagat
6 The Producers of the Video are all NON-SIKHS...and the vidfeo makes out as IF this Dera is greater than Darbar sahib Amrtisar
7. The make beleive pictures paintings of wadbhag singh painted to look exactly like GURU ARJUN Ji's paintings..
8 Guru Ji totally REJECTED blood relations..Sodhi has no suignificance at all
9 They have people swinging hair Nangeh Sir inside the Gurdwara...agaisn Manmatt and total disregard to Sanctity of Guru Ji
10 The "interviews" and "possession" are all obviously staged fakes
11. One of the babas (Ram singh) has his dharra TIED up..and looks like a clerk rather than holy man
12 and the thing about Ladies and Men bathing together to "clean the mann's mail" is fraud...in Darbar sahib and other Sikh gurdwaras there are separate enclosures for ladies..mann dee mall is not cleansed by bathing together ( MK Gandhi used to sleep naked with his daughters/associates to PROVE his mann was clean..and he could control his sex drive )
Lots of other Manmatt and anti Gurmatt...stay away from this place.

I saw a Discovery Documentary about the witches of Jhaar Khand....veirdly SIMILAR to what is going on in this DERA...same hair waving, wild screams, ONLY Difference is that in the Documentary it hapopens in HINDU MANDIR with Mata Ji Sheran wali and hindu priests..here the people are look alike Sikhs..but same bahjans and kachi bani kavitas and geets etc..

Why cant we just beleive in the Dera of Baba Nanak instead of the Dera of Baba Vadbhaag Singh? There is no Dera higher than the Dera of Baba Nanak.
Another couple of things which I picked up from the Video that are totally wrong:

1. It say Baba Vadhbhag Singh took Amrit From Jassa Singh Ahluwalia. Amrit Cannot be given by any other than Panj Piaray.

2. They believe that the yoghurt they use to clean Nishan Sahib somehow becomes Amrit.

3. They take home kapra of the old Nishan Sahib to give to their children so they have No Fear. That only comes by Gurus kirpa and through Naam Japna

4. They tie things as offerings to the new Nishan Sahib, and make wishes? What is Ardas for?

Oh yeh and the chanting of "Jai Babay dee.." Whatever happened to Waheguru!!

I have just watched the video, and have come to the conlcusion that it has nothing to do with Sikhi. There was no mention of even Guru Granth or Guru Panth.

It is fine that he has his own dera, but is this what Satguru Nanak Dev Jee wanted the Khalsa to become?

You mention your mother was sick from being possesed etc, etc. Did you ever go to the Gurdwara and have the Granthee do ardaas and degh for her well being while she went through her time of need? Did you listen to the Hukumnamaa and try to follow it? Did you find a shabad that pierced your heart and recite it for her well being?

I have been through very similar circunstances as you, so don't get me wrong that I have no experience, for me this happened to both my parents.

But we constantly did ardaas and degh and seva and did Sehaj Paats, not from Gyanee's but on our own and my father survived from his death bed. 

Did you present yourself infront of Panj Piara and beg for forgiveness for your bad deeds, which is why you were stuck in the problem in the first place and ask for Khandaa Amrit?

Did you do any of this before you went to that Deraa??? Why would you leave the present form of Guru Nanak in Guru Granth Sahib and run there.

They are calling him "Sachaa Patshaah", that is reserved for Satguru Nanak and the Guru's after Him upto only Guru Granth Sahib.

The video is right in saying that you have to go through a similar experience before you reaise that these things exist. BUT if you are a SIKH, he always turns to the Guru for help in all situations.

Guru in Banee says these things do exist, but the the real cure is Japjee Sahib. Did you sit down and recite it over and over and over again till things got better?Gurbanee is the real cure. Or were you looking for an easy way out of your problems, just go dance around have a cold bath and Kaboom we are fixed. You supposed to realize the Lord through your misfortunes not get attached to a "Kaam Dhen" Tree, which will be able to help you up to a certain point after which will have to say "I can't".

A true Sikh/Saadh/Sant/Baba will only attach you to Guru Granth Sahib and nowhere else. I do agree he does have powers to cure, but there is absoltly no one higher than the Lord Satguru Nanak.

in conclusion..
It is pretty clear that the entire Video is a PROPOGANDA FILM made to increase attendance at this Ghor Manmatt DERA.

Sikhee da is taran de ghor manmattee deraiyan nall door da we vaasta nahin hai. There is not even 0.001% SIKHI in the entrire video..and the 99.99% anti gurmatt total RUBBISH is clear to anyone who knows even an iota of Gurmatt or Gurbani.

Stay away from such places and such videos....they are meant for GHOSTS./RAKKSHAS.....not Guru Key Sikhs.

Jarnail Singh :whisling: Gyani


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## ISDhillon (Feb 7, 2006)

Giani Ji I have read all of these on tapoban and was not allowed to respond but you can look at all my responses on the following sites :

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=16877

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness/viewtopic.php?t=8250

And many on the sikh history site, the tliving treasure site but no one responded their, the above stuff that you wrote was only written in rage by yourself cos you have no gyan really you might aswell have given yourself the name Baba Daljeet Singh Chicagowale for all the knowledge I am taking away from your post it is the only rubbish on this site please feel free to back up your claims with evidence, I look forward to it.

ISDhillon:whisling: :u): :}{}{}:  :down: :{;o:  :shock:


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 7, 2006)

ISDhillon said:
			
		

> Giani Ji I have read all of these on tapoban and was not allowed to respond but you can look at all my responses on the following sites :
> 
> http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=16877
> 
> ...


 
ISDhillon Jio,

I went to the sites you mentioned ( by the way i am a member of BOTH..and SikhHistory.com as well ) and NOT EVEN ONE poster supports your one sided skewed views..and the people on SikhAwareness are pretty LIBERAL on babas and deras and such..even the MOST LIBERAL of them all N30 had nothing to say in your support - on the contrary he saw so much MANMATT in your video...

You seem to have the same axe to grind with Amritpal Singh..hence some of his posts on "deleting" posts etc..

Here I must say that i FULLY SUPPORT those Admins who deleted your ppots on this DERA and refused to REPLY or Didnt actually receive any replies as it is NOT worth it. Soem admins just dont want to dabble..in such rubbish..and yet some Give "Freedom of Expression"..its OK by me on BOTH counts.

So Extremely SORRY..I have NOTHING to ADD to this post on any count..MY VIEWS are very clear already. Dera wadbhag is a Manmattee dera. NO SIKH should be seen within a mile of it in any circumstances. PERIOD.

I will NOT reply to anymore posts on this topic. ( not due to lack of time..but no inclination)

Thansk but NO THANKS.
Jarnail Singh Gyani.:whisling:


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## ISDhillon (Feb 7, 2006)

Again you have submitted more of the usual babble let me give you an example of why what you say does not support your claims (and btw it does not matter what everyone thinks it is evidence i am looking for not words we can all talk )

you say:

"Stay away from such places and such videos....they are meant for GHOSTS./RAKKSHAS.....not Guru Key Sikhs."

now i could say :

go to such places its the best place on earth for gurmukhs it is a pure and spiritual place"

now tell me are any of us more enlightened by such statements and if you look again at what you have written the statement are all the same as this there is an equal opposite to all of them I do hope your essay on miracles is not going to be a bunch of statements because then we will have to elevate you to guru.

Please readjust your mentality,

ISDhillon:u):


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 7, 2006)

ISDhillon said:
			
		

> Again you have submitted more of the usual babble let me give you an example of why what you say does not support your claims (and btw it does not matter what everyone thinks it is evidence i am looking for not words we can all talk )
> 
> you say:
> 
> ...


 
"Evidence" ?/ do you even know the meaning of the word ? IS a bunch of weirdos banging away at a vaja and shaking heads wildly..evidence ?? Evidence of What ?? i like my mentality the way it is. tuhanu tuhadee mubarak hoveh:{;o: 

NO THANKS.

Jarnail Singh Gyani Arshi:whisling:


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## ISDhillon (Feb 7, 2006)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
			
		

> "Evidence" ?/ do you even know the meaning of the word ? IS a bunch of weirdos banging away at a vaja and shaking heads wildly..evidence ?? Evidence of What ?? i like my mentality the way it is. tuhanu tuhadee mubarak hoveh:{;o:
> 
> NO THANKS.
> 
> Jarnail Singh Gyani Arshi:whisling:


 
No mister fake giani:down:  you dont get away that easily answer the questions and stop calling yourself a giani you are sikh so go back to school and start learning:u): 

A bunch of wild people shaking their heads trust me they dont even know they are shaking their heads what is your proof that they are faking it i doubt youve got any just crappola statements as perusual.:} 

ISDhillon


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## manbir (Feb 13, 2006)

ISDhillon said:
			
		

> No mister fake giani:down: you dont get away that easily answer the questions and stop calling yourself a giani you are sikh so go back to school and start learning:u):
> 
> A bunch of wild people shaking their heads trust me they dont even know they are shaking their heads what is your proof that they are faking it i doubt youve got any just crappola statements as perusual.:}
> 
> ISDhillon


 
Dear IS Dhillon
I do not understand why you have to go to Dera Vad Bhag Singh to see these Shaking Heads. Come here in Punjab and throughout India  such places are found in abunadance. Here fools are making fool of others. Such Shaking Heads need to be admitted to mental asylums and need proper psychiatric treatment. Many have been treated at Dhanaula with Electric Shocks. 
Growup Sir, human mind has developed far ahead to get involved in such silly stuff.


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## manbir (Feb 13, 2006)

Dear IS Dhillon,
One thing I must tell you that No one can make you understand what is going on behind those Shaking Heads. Unless you are a medical personal it is just impossible to comprehend what the problem is. That person with Shaking Heads is Sick and needs help. He needs to be manages medically. He is a diseased person and has to be managed accordingly. 

Because of Illliteracy and supperstitious atmosphere and lack of proper facilities such sick people are being exploited for selfish motives. 

Such Deras are making Sikhs Mentally Sick.


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## manbir (Feb 13, 2006)

Dear IS Dhillon

Come out of the Mental Block that This Dera of Vadbhag Singh has create in you. The is no other alternative. No logic can explain things to you.

Why not think of Guru Nanak. Why Vad Bhag Singh !!!!


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## manbir (Feb 13, 2006)

[A bunch of wild people shaking their heads trust me they dont even know they are shaking their heads what is your proof that they are faking it i doubt youve got any just crappola statements as perusual.:} ]

I trust you that they are not faking and they do not know what is going on. They are simply SICK.
They would not be there at the Vadbhag Singh Dera if they knew whats going on !!!!


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## ISDhillon (Feb 13, 2006)

Manbir Singh Ji

Dont tell me to growup I am am fully confident that this place does work thankyou very much:

"Many have been treated at Dhanaula with Electric Shocks. 
Growup Sir, human mind has developed far ahead to get involved in such silly stuff."

My uncle was subjected to this electroshock treatment and he turned into a zombie andeventually committed suicide, medical treatment does not work I am a qualified counsellor I know I have also done a masters in pharmacy and I still believe in dera I would seriously advise that you get out of the this notion that medicine can serve all purposes, today more and more people are embracing spiritual healing because it works and western medicines only give relief of symptoms ie you become a zombie, but this dera changes the whole person and you again become alive and that too with gurus kirpa. 

thanks but no thanks 

ISDhillon


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## devinesanative (Feb 13, 2006)

Dear Friends

Baba Vadhbhag Singh Ji Dera is a fully Faltu and FAKE Dera , it encashes on the two lethal weapons Phylosophy and Psychology .

No SPIRIT EXISTS .

Here are some Benefits Why People Behave That They have been Caught with SPIRITS.


1. Create Importance
2. Draw Attention of the Public

and Much more .


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## devinesanative (Feb 13, 2006)

ISDhillon said:
			
		

> Manbir Singh Ji
> 
> Dont tell me to growup I am am fully confident that this place does work thankyou very much:
> 
> ...


 

Wonderfull that you are counsellor .

So , here I am giving you a sceneraio please suggest and give judgement.


There is guy , let us name him , Satnam Singh , His age is near about 32 , Unmarried , Virgin , Drinks No Alcohol ,ie he a humble guy earning hansome salary , but Parent is willing to marry him nor any girl is willing due to complex mathemetical caluculations of life .


On the other side there is young girl of the age 25 , she is beautiful , married of six months but her husband died away .

On one side this guy , has not yet established sex with any woman , but this girl wants to establish physical relation with him .

This guy is also frustrated , till now not able to enjoy life , that girl is also frustrated because no one is there to enjoy life .

So ,

Should that guy establish sexual Relations with her ?

If yes , then why ? If no Then Why Not ?

If this guy would have initiated the approach , then the society would have but him behind the bars , for attempt to rape .


But now the girl is approaching so no hullballu .

So , Why this duality in Society ?


Now, what counsellting would you provide to both of them ?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 13, 2006)

devinesanative said:
			
		

> Dear Friends
> 
> Baba Vadhbhag Singh Ji Dera is a fully Faltu and FAKE Dera , it encashes on the two lethal weapons Phylosophy and Psychology .
> 
> ...


 
Dera Veer Ji,

You have Hit the Target Dead Centre.
The so called "bhoots" are a CRY for ATTENTION...

In our Society the WOMEN are the ones most deprived/downtrodden and kept under guard...first by the Father..then by the Husband..then by the Sons..and then by the Grandchildren/daughters in law etc..thus WOMEN from the largest percentage of the "BHOOTS"..and then the "BHAIS", the VODOO Doctors, the Witch Doctors, the Shamans, and what not take over the Poor soul and Squeeze her dry of whatever dignity she has left..she is whipped, manhandled, fondled, molested and even raped..all for the magic "CURE..." which doesnt exist.

Such FALTOO PAKHAND has no place in Gurmatt and Sikhi.

Jarnail Singh gyani


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## ISDhillon (Feb 13, 2006)

Devine Sanative Ji

I dont understand your message are you saying that this sort of thing happens only in societies where people have it bad, cos my mum lives in england and she has everything she ever wanted, I suggest you take a long hard look at what yoy are saying because your argument is incredibly flimsy, If you had lived through what i saw then you would slap yourself across the face for thinking such a thing, no offence though 

Giani strikes again aahhhhh i am soooo scared   get a life you sad old man:u):  i have read what youve wrote about me on other websites you are malicious bitter and most probably like devine sanitive suggests sexually frustrated.:{;o: 

ISDhillon


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 13, 2006)

ISDhillon said:
			
		

> Devine Sanative Ji
> 
> I dont understand your message are you saying that this sort of thing happens only in societies where people have it bad, cos my mum lives in england and she has everything she ever wanted, I suggest you take a long hard look at what yoy are saying because your argument is incredibly flimsy, If you had lived through what i saw then you would slap yourself across the face for thinking such a thing, no offence though
> 
> ...


 
ISDhillon
You have NO evidence apart from your Mum and uncle...what  aload of "Hard evidence" eh ??

Such lack of hard evidence drives YOU into PERSONAL ATTACKS against t me..that is why the Wise Admin of Tapoban and Sikh history and other Forums CUT you OFF in the BUD. Get a LIFE . How many on THIS FORUM have supported your sicko dera ?? Name them..But then you have already said who cares about others ?? Then why carry on this sick joke of a faltoo dera..maybe your head is beginning to shake too - i am sure of it.

Tapoban dont allow your posts..but you still go there to READ !! that is another symptom of wadbhag derwaadism ( why go to  a Forum that denies you your say ?? I wouldnt !!! go near such a place - not once i know they dotn want me)..anyway YOu can POST all that here !! so why dont you tell everybody what i said about you ??

By the way i am happily married with nice educated Khalsa Amrtidharee children and wife and family and no worries about any secual inadequacies ( that is why i avoid vadbhag derawwadism)..so sorry to disappoint you on thsi account as well.

Jarnail singh gyani:whisling:


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## ISDhillon (Feb 13, 2006)

"You have NO evidence apart from your Mum and uncle...what aload of "Hard evidence" eh ??"

No i have spoken from my personal experience at babaji dera and family experience yours is just a bunch of hateful opinions so who you tryin to kid and have a look on tapoban i think the sawy of opinion is in my favour.

"By the way i am happily married with nice educated Khalsa Amrtidharee children and wife and family and no worries"

I feel sorry for your wife and kids!

ISDhillon


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 13, 2006)

Dear all,
Read Today's Daily Ajit..the Baba of dera Wadbhag Singh himslef declares that NAAM is the One and ONLY Sacha Teerath.  www.ajitjalandhar.com

Jarnail Singh Gyani


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 13, 2006)

ISDhillon said:
			
		

> "You have NO evidence apart from your Mum and uncle...what aload of "Hard evidence" eh ??"
> 
> No i have spoken from my personal experience at babaji dera and family experience yours is just a bunch of hateful opinions *so who you tryin to kid and have a look on tapoban i think the sawy of opinion is in my favour.*
> 
> ...


 
Are you Kidding ?? Out of the Total 22 posts ( 3 are YOUR OWN - self praise !!) the other 19 SAY NAY loud and clear...Wadbhag is NOT SIKHI !! one Khalsa talks about baba Wadbhag singh being a saint ) that man got NOTHING to do with THE PRESENT DERA ( except his name beign misused).

Please Quote the Persons who SUPPORT YOU in going to the DERA and elt every reader make up his own mind.

The sad truth is every single reader who wrote to tapoban and OTHER FORUMS..are Shaking their heads as to what is wrong with YOU. IF "opinions" were in your favour as you claim...no reason to BAN YOU ??

come out of your fairly tale spirit world..and stop pitying my wife and kids..pity yourself.

Jarnail Singh Gyani


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## manbir (Feb 14, 2006)

ISDhillon said:
			
		

> Manbir Singh Ji
> 
> Dont tell me to growup I am am fully confident that this place does work thankyou very much:
> 
> ...


 
Dear IS Dhillon Ji

So, you are a *qualified counselor and with masters digree !!*

Then it’s a serious matter

I must tell you that I am a qualified Medical personal and working as a Medical specialist for many years. I have been treating such ‘Shakken Heads’ and fully aware of what this all stuff is. These are just *diseased human beings*. They need medical treatment. 

I happen to frequently give Emergency treatments to my patients.

At this very moment The Emergency measure that I feel needs to be taken is : --

LET ALL THE SADH SANGAT OF THIS FORUM SIT TOGETHER AND DO ARDAS FOR THE *PROTECTION* OF THOSE WHO HAPPEN TO NEED YOUR COUNSEL.


Now for benefit of IS Dhillon Ji ONLY

As per my clinical judgment you have been inflicted with this disease which comes in various forms. To some extent this disease is Infectious (NOT in Medical sense). Those who happen to visit Deras frequently are very much prone to get this disease. Seeing and participating with these Shakken Heads does have delirious influence on people around. So Mr. Dhillon be careful. 
This disease also has GENETIC aspect. It does run in family (*MEDICALLY PROVED*). I am really worried for you because you have it in your family !!
This disease has world wide prevalence and we do find mention of it in early historical literature. Its prevalence is since historical and pre historical times. BUT fortunately the incidence of this disease has reduced with progress in human thinking and with advancement of human thought process. Medical treatment of MINOR form of this disease prevents its progress to MAJOR form. Its seen that the incidence of this disease is very much less in EDUCATED population.
TREATMENT: Patients with Minor forms of this disease (Mr. Dhillon yours is still a Monor Form) tend to fare better. I would suggest following measures for you:-

STOP visiting such Deras , Tantriks Ojhas and the likes.
Try to wash your brain of all the stuff you saw in this Dera and all the rituals performed there. 
Recite Jap ji Sahib daily Morning and Kirtan Sohila in the Evening
Concentrate on Waheguru throughout the day. Waheguru Simran does help in this process.
Take out all Negative thoughts from your brain.
COMPLICATIONS: if this disease are also known. Incidence of *Suicide* is very high in those with Major Form of this disease. Those with Family history of this disease should be very careful, they tend to get relapses of acute attacks of this disease, especially if they keep visiting Deras and Tantriks. Another major complication of this disease is that IT SPREADS WITH THOUGHT PROCESS. Diseased people tend to spread it to others. SO AVOID THIS TYPE OF SANGAT. Follow Sadh Sangat as mentioned in Gurbani.

CONCLUSION: Dear Mr. IS Dhillon, we cannot swim in TWO boats. This life is too short why waste takoing matha here and there. How can we follow so many Gurus ?
How can we decide who is right and who is wrong !! Let our Guru decide. And Guru has decided and ordered us to follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Lets do our bit and leave rest on HIM.

 *The choice is yours*.


I heard someone saying
     (Meaning of Vad Bhag 
        Vad = Cut Bhag = Destiny)


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## ISDhillon (Feb 14, 2006)

" I have been treating such ‘Shakken Heads’ and fully aware of what this all stuff is. "
where is your proof?

"These are just *diseased human beings*. They need medical treatment. "

yes millions have been treated at dera sahib.


"my clinical judgment you have been inflicted with this disease which comes in various forms"

you sound like a giani he to read things wwrong i have never said i was inflicted with anything i do hope you are more focussed with your patients

 "This disease has world wide prevalence and we do find mention of it in early historical literature." 

where?

"STOP visiting such Deras , Tantriks Ojhas and the likes."

i agree i will only visit sachkhan places like baba vadhbhag singh Ji 

"Dear Mr. IS Dhillon, we cannot swim in TWO boats. "

this is true only follow gursikhs like Baba Vadhbhag Singh Ji.  So really we have more in common than you think come lets shake our heads together 

As for the giani have a look at the bottom where the milk went sour with your propaganda on tapoban you did get proven wrong didnt you time to eat some humble pie:shutup: 

Anymore opinions people or does anyone actually have an education? am i speaking to inbred pindoos:} 

ISDhillon


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## devinesanative (Feb 14, 2006)

ISDhillon said:
			
		

> Devine Sanative Ji
> 
> I dont understand your message are you saying that this sort of thing happens only in societies where people have it bad, cos my mum lives in england and she has everything she ever wanted, I suggest you take a long hard look at what yoy are saying because your argument is incredibly flimsy, If you had lived through what i saw then you would slap yourself across the face for thinking such a thing, no offence though
> 
> ...


 
I just plucked the string , and the whole world started Shaking with tremors of Ritcher scale 10000.......

I would suggest you before you counsell someone in future , first let be yourself counselled and be clear of Gyan , Dhyan , Byan and Syan...


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## devinesanative (Feb 14, 2006)

manbir said:
			
		

> Dear IS Dhillon Ji
> 
> So, you are a *qualified counselor and with masters digree !!*
> 
> ...


 

You are right , It spreads with thought process , as the subconscious minds of two people communicate invisibly with progapagtion of thoughts , so such thought especially negative ones spread like Virus .


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 14, 2006)

Dear devinsnative jio,

Thus we come to the Inevitable conlcusion of GURBANI..

MOORAKHAAN NAAL NA LUJHEAYEAH..Asa Di vaar.... Meaning DONT MESS with FOOLS.

Jarnail Singh Gyani


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## ISDhillon (Feb 14, 2006)

"I just plucked the string , and the whole world started Shaking with tremors of Ritcher scale 10000......."

yeah keep dreamin when you go there and see for yourself then come back and debate wiv me i will be more than happy until then raab da naa lai!

"I would suggest you before you counsell someone in future , first let be yourself counselled and be clear of Gyan , Dhyan , Byan and Syan"

No thanks I am 100% with all my religious convictions if you wanna discuss something then you need to make a presentable case but you havnt so i dont need to take any advice from you or the giani  you both have same opinion "tera ser vich bem hai" - and frankly i dont give a flyin *** wot you think, counsel that!!!:whisling: 

ISDhillon


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## vijaydeep Singh (Feb 16, 2006)

Gurfateh

Dear Bro IS Dhillon Ji,

Das gave you a suggestion that why do not you learn the subjects  or methids being used by Dera Baba Wadbhag Singh Ji.

There after you can use the same supernaatural powers to prove you point to Gyani Sahib,Manbir Singh Ji and our noughty Devine Senative JI.

Show them your miracles but these Sikhs may even then do not agree to you.

Yet gain some power and show us some miralce.Then next thing

Did sprits or Hava of Baba Vadbhag Singh Ji or Veer Nahar Singh Ji(Veer is a type of para normal creature) are invokes then das can say from Bani of Tenth Master that invoking by offering ie worshipping Dead is Kurh Kriya(filthy act) but  that is relative term as Akal does all.

By will of Akal pig eats flith and gives us pork.So if this thing helps hindus or turbaned Hindus it is OK.

Das is interested that have you lerant something supernatural from there or not?

If not then learn aboout it and tell us something and let us gain some more things.

You made some staments,Now expermanets upon you yorselves have to be done to prove them so that let them be theory.

Das is also interested that before Baba Vadhbhag Singh Ji who use to control ghosts?

Das anyway respects Baba Ji and all other posters on this site.Akal is same in all.But das can relaise that relife you might have felt after vsisitng Dera and your replies are proof of the same.

But did you go to Rara Sahib or Mehta Chowk with your mothers problem and if you went then what did Sants say about it?


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## ISDhillon (Feb 16, 2006)

Satsriakal Vijaydeep Singh Ji, 

" why do not you learn the subjects or methids being used by Dera Baba Wadbhag Singh Ji."

it was gods hukum that babaji would learn this for us and now we dont have to learn we have a source of help to go to if something like this happens to our nearest and dearest and also possessed people need help primarily and cannot be dilly dallying around with learning stuff.

"There after you can use the same supernaatural powers to prove you point to Gyani Sahib,Manbir Singh Ji and our noughty Devine Senative JI."

I dont have to proove anything that which exists is a reality and those that deny a reality need to defend their beliefs so i put it to you proove to me that the dera is anti-gurmat otherwise you are asking me to proove something which is already in front of all eyes to see.  Does that make sense? i hope so.

"Show them your miracles but these Sikhs may even then do not agree to you."

i dont need to show anything to anyone i have no power but i have experienced the power the truth is subjective.


"Did sprits or Hava of Baba Vadbhag Singh Ji or Veer Nahar Singh Ji(Veer is a type of para normal creature) are invokes" 

no nothing is invoked raab de naal sarmaya that babaji and naar singh havaa will stay there and do gods work noone invokes babaji it is gods hukum that he performs the task and it is also sanctioned by our gurus thats why they come from anandpur sahib and put panja at dera on hollah mohallah.

"So if this thing helps hindus or turbaned Hindus it is OK."


it has nothing to do with hinduism you need to think outside of the box your fear of being assimilated into hinduism is hampering your objective judgement.

"Das is interested that have you lerant something supernatural from there or not?"

yes naam kamai make supernatural natural and that it is ok to seek help from naam abhiyassee like babaji.

"Das is also interested that before Baba Vadhbhag Singh Ji who use to control ghosts?"

mostly muslim occultists thats why we have babaji to counteract possession.

"But did you go to Rara Sahib or Mehta Chowk with your mothers problem and if you went then what did Sants say about it?"

no but we did go for yatra their but it was my mothers karma to go to babaji this is gods hukum that people in the world who are possessed can have relief their, mehta chowk and rara sahib have other purpose dont fool yourself that they are ghostbusters that would be the greatest beadbi.

Shukraanaa 

ISDhillon


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## vijaydeep Singh (Feb 16, 2006)

Gurfateh

Can God make you like Baba Ji?

Again you missed the point of Das before Baba Ji is Muslims were taking care of ghost then who was doing Ghost busting before Say Prphet Mohamud(PBUH)?

Lastly are Sants unabble to do Ghost Busting or did you not enquered about this from them?

And if they do ghiost bursting then why is this beadbi?Our Baba Ji also do the same then it is neither the Beadbi?

Did you talk to any sewadar there about learning some method?

Das just wants to point you towrads the method of Kamai baba Ji did and hope that Sevadars in Dera are aware of that.


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## manbir (Feb 16, 2006)

Dear friends

In this world Fools come in different colours. They also come in different shapes and sizes. 
When many fools get collected and form a Chandal Chaukri of Fools the result is - Deras of the type we see as Dera Vad Bahg Singh

The fools of the type we see in IS Dhillon is nothing new to this world. This world has seen inneumerable of then. They are beyond REPAIR. Lets not waste time on them. When Guru Nanak could not cure them what are we worth !!


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## devinesanative (Feb 16, 2006)

Dear Friends

Very Shortly I will Post the Movie which my friend shot at Jammu , where a witch lady trying to remove some bhoot , but we have captured some realities , Which will show you that , Every Ghost Buster knows that there is no Ghost but , Artificially creates something , which makes you believe that Ghost Exists.


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## ISDhillon (Feb 16, 2006)

"Can God make you like Baba Ji?"

yes

"who was doing Ghost busting before Say Prphet Mohamud(PBUH)?"

dont know if you know why dont you share but this if what you are trying to say is that somehow ghosts were treatable prior to the coming of babaji then i must ask you whats the purpose of sikhi cos who was giving humanity salvation prior to that, my theory is that salvation and ghostbusting is more easier today.

"Sants unabble to do Ghost Busting or did you not enquered about this from them?"

they are but they did not have the hukum from god to do this whereas babaji did like sant can never be guru sant can never be ghost buster.

"Did you talk to any sewadar there about learning some method?"

i know people who are on the inside and they have given me a very clear account of what happens but this is of no concern to me we got ram their and thats all that matters so you can be skeptic all you like no one is telling you to believe but if youre rude then i will be telling you that you are a bad person.

"Das just wants to point you towrads the method of Kamai baba Ji "

i am well aware and thanks for youre concern much appreciated!

Manbir Singh Ji you are full of shit i tell you this cos youre calling me a fool. Thanks.:{;o: 

Devinesanitive Ji I cant wait to see the video it will have to have some link to babaji though if it is to be taken as credible as babaji is in a league of his own and therefore their can be no comparison. Thanks:whisling: 

It looks like that occultism is more popular with pretend sikhs than the true kamai of babji, cos noone wants to hear the truth but they get off on ghost stories GROW UP!!!:u): 

ISDhillon


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## devinesanative (Feb 16, 2006)

Oh Dear Crazy Friend,


Don't get so rash and harsh , otherwise your BP will Go high , and ultimately our one of the Dr Members have to treat you free of Cost .


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## manbir (Feb 17, 2006)

Dear Devinesanative Ji

Thanks for your advise regarding starting a web site regarding Medical Information.

I would welcome you to visit this link.

www.manbir-online.com


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## vijaydeep Singh (Feb 17, 2006)

Gurfateh

Dear Bro IS Dhillon Ji,

Why das is making you to go in for learning methods or to go to Sants is that Sants have been also doing Ghost Busting which you may not be knowing.

Unlike in Dera you mentioned there in sants attempts are made to salvage the ghost itslef so that it leaves the victom so first a sort of talk is done ie what is the problem of ghost,Belive it that ghost is often in more agony then victom.

As mother of Das had some depressions and people said that  it was by some wrong influence but she recovered from medication due to mercy of Akal.Das can feel the the agony of you also.Anyway Das did took his mother to one Ajeet Darbar(Again followers of Baba Ji) as his hindu maternal uncle told them to go there and mother could not be sent alone.

Das did like Path of Gurbani being done there.But his mother was OK by mercy of Akal as the things which they gave to her were lost in way.And Das's mother said that God only will cure her and she was OK.May be blessing of Akal could come via dera as you say.

Why did das asked question about Muslims.Well these guys have no concept of Ghost but yet they treat.

Das read one Sau Sakhi that one sikhin was alsp speaking wrong as if possesed and Tenth Master treated her.

Her husband was told to Read Gurbani.

He was told that such situation has come as she actualy went to a Muslim occultiests.

Das just wants to say that Guru did not use own power but relied upon Bani.

Guru Granth Sahib states Oh Nanak! Why rember who is born and dies.
Only One needs to be rembered who is abosorbed in water and earth(everywhere).

Ugradanti Bani(which is removed from present version of Dasham Granth)

People say Sukh Singh wrote it inn the name of Guru but that has been belived by manay that Guru wrote it.

It states,To the power(Energy in time frame or Rate of ahcnge of energy so it is Shakti while Akal is energy or Amitouj).

Let the worship of those who are born and die destroyed.

We need to rember that we do not have to rember bodies or spirits of Guru or even say book worship of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Our God is Akal and we need to live happy in will of Akal.

Das was trying to bring in saints like Baba Isher Singh Ji who did interact with ghost.




or say late Mahant Ji of das's Ashram also had knowledge on it.

What das is trying to prove it that power of Akal works there in dera and Sevdar use the same and name is wrongly givne to Baba Ji or Veer Nahar Singh JI.

Das was not telling you to doubt or enquire from Sevdars there but Das wanted you to leran the Vidya(art/scine) fromm them and you can have your own dera in UK and can help all people there and this could be good for preaching also.

Give a seriuous thought on it and try if sevadars can teach yuo some such thing.Das only wants you to gain some inner knowledge and use it to uplift mankind as you are a couseler also.Das is at your side and himself interested to know more and help das by learning all these things yourself.


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## ISDhillon (Feb 17, 2006)

Look Vijaydeep the giani has finally lossed his mind i am thinking some kussar is involved:}{}{}:  he cant take it that i did not have to post anything yet still the hardcore tapobanees decided to reject his missives:
"sss jio,

then in that case GURU NANAK JI was WRONG ?? He slated everything that HE saw was wrong ?? In your opinion...GURU JI should have just LEFT the Hindus to go on making pilgrimages..and the whatever everyone was doing..let them be....this fake dera is just 100 years old..what the Hindus were doing had been GOING ON for THOUSAND YEARS.... BUT GURU ji DID NOT take your advice..and just SHUT UP..and do HIS OWN NAAM JAPP...He went out to every place..he walked all over..he wrote 1429 AAngs of GURBANI...he sajjed the KHALSA..he FOUGHT WARS...

NO NO NO..such advise as you give..TO BURY OUR HEADS in the SAND and pretend all is OK..is a definite NO NO NO. This is NOt the KHALSA GURMATT WAY. IF it is PROVE it from a GURBANI TUK ( where Guru Ji says" LET THEM BE...DONT DISTURB SLEEPING DOGS..)

IF it was the Singh Sabha lehr wouldnt have done anything for the GURDWARAS.... the mahants were doing pretty well....just as Massa Ranghhar was in Harmandir sahib..WHY couldnt we let sleeping dogs lie that time ?? WHY go in and chase them out ??

Jarnail Singh"

hahahahahahahaha shame on the fake giani who has soooo much krodh that anyone who writes against him ridicules his ego lol 

ISDhillon


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## Parnam singh (Aug 12, 2006)

ISDhillon said:
			
		

> Giani Ji I have read all of these on tapoban and was not allowed to respond but you can look at all my responses on the following sites :
> 
> http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=16877
> 
> ...


 
sat shri akal,

     i have read some articles on the web site about baba vad bhag singh ji and i agree with a lot of thing u hav made here, alot of people do not understand thing they cannot. After years of problems and search i would very much like to go and see baba's dera, so if possible can u give details of where it is and how to find it 
                              thank u


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## ISDhillon (Aug 12, 2006)

> sat shri akal,
> 
> i have read some articles on the web site about baba vad bhag singh ji and i agree with a lot of thing u hav made here, alot of people do not understand thing they cannot. After years of problems and search i would very much like to go and see baba's dera, so if possible can u give details of where it is and how to find it
> thank u



Satsriakal Parnam Singh Ji,

I have not been for a while simply because i am not suffering from anything but i can tell you the best time to go is during hollah, there is a place in himachal pradesh called mehree and thats where the dera is most drivers know the way, its cos my fmily back home liv near mahlpur so its close from there, it is coincidentally also the same route as bawa balak nath place in the mountain its just slightly different.  I am not from india i am from uk but am currently living in america so do not know specific directions and i dont believe you can mapquest the dera either.

indy


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## kaur-1 (Aug 12, 2006)

Quotation from "In search of the true Guru" on 6th june 1984 - genocide and invasion of Sri Harmindar Sahib. Bhai Rama Singh ji was in deep sorrow...

*"... only the true Khalsa is qualified to rule, but todays Khalsa is not the true Khalsa.

Only the Guru of the Khalsa can  give what is needed. 

What can you beg from those who are beggars themselves?

The Khalsa is so feebly spiritually that they have forgotten from whom to ask favours.

Khalsa is the ruler of millions of galaxies.

It is whithin the Will of Guru Ji to turn dust to gold in a second. 

However; the Panth does not have faith in the Word of Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji:

"Whatever I ask for from my Lord and Master, he gives that to me. Whatever the Lord's slave Nanak utters with his mouth, proves to be true, and hereafter. ||2||" (SGGSp. 681) 

...."

 "GURU MANYO GRANTH"  or be a LOSS SHEEP  Hmmm? Oh dear what a difficult question?*


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## El D (Sep 6, 2006)

Manbir Bai, more shocking than the electric shock treatment is the fact that you dim witted people actually use electric shock therapy. something we in the enlightened west find barbaric and dark aged. 
Actually more shocking then that is the fact that you people even pay for those kinds of treatments. Its the doctors who really need the therapy.


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## drkhalsa (Sep 7, 2006)

Dear Brother El D,


Welcome to this forum!

As far elightened west is concerned  Electric Shock Thearpy or Electroconvulsive therapy is still pretty much used and in UK it is quite popular among Psychiatrist to give this therapy to Inpatients in Ward.


Jatinder Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Sep 8, 2006)

Gurfateh

shock is used as last resort.


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## ISDhillon (Sep 8, 2006)

drkhalsa said:
			
		

> Dear Brother El D,
> 
> 
> Welcome to this forum!
> ...



i have lived in the uk all my life i only recently moved to the usa this year and i dont remember hearing of people being treated with electroshock therapy, i know they used it quite extensively in india but it just makes people zombie like and paranoid.


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## drkhalsa (Sep 8, 2006)

Dear Brother Vijaydeep Singh and ISDhillon



I have written as I witnessed while working in Psychiatric hospital in leeds and Birmingham

ECT is very effective therapy , and commonly used in patients with severe Depression and very good results .I agree that its indications are very few in Modern psychiatry but for some indications it is the best . In Psychiatric hospital their is weekly ( some times more frequently)List of Ect to be done and junior doctors supervise it .
It is virtually painless as Anesthesia is given before it While in India it is commonly done without Anesthesia.


Jatinder Singh


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## spark (Jun 24, 2008)

any person who say that the DERA  SAHIB is faltu place im sure he has to suffer alot alot
sikh is sikh he has no rigth yo say bad.all the people are selfish who say DERA is faltu.
 if any person work done than say this place is best but if the peolple like u all r foolish who at home saying this is fake place. i wish at ur home u also has to suffer.
than tell me what is IMPORTANCE o this place.
        SIKH DA YA KISE WE DHARAM DA HOWE USNU MAHRA KEHN DA KOI HAK NE.
                JE TUHANU KISE CHIZ DA NHI PTA TA EWE KYU BAKWAS KRDA.


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## ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in (Oct 6, 2008)

Hi Dear,

Five years ago, I have no beleive in Dera Baba Vadhbhag Singh Ji. My Wife was huge problems in the stomach. I have scanned, but nothing showing. I advised my relatives to go to Dera. Problem reduce day by day and after one year, she completely O.K.

My professional work was not good five years back. But now I am earning 5 times and satisfy. My 101% beleive in the dera. I do not know what you are thinking. As per my views, some agiani peoples use bad words about this dera and they have zero knowledge of God.

Thanks
Sunder Singh 



manbir said:


> [A bunch of wild people shaking their heads trust me they dont even know they are shaking their heads what is your proof that they are faking it i doubt youve got any just crappola statements as perusual.:} ]
> 
> I trust you that they are not faking and they do not know what is going on. They are simply SICK.
> They would not be there at the Vadbhag Singh Dera if they knew whats going on !!!!


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## dalbirk (Oct 6, 2008)

kaur-1 said:


> Quotation from "In search of the true Guru" on 6th june 1984 - genocide and invasion of Sri Harmindar Sahib. Bhai Rama Singh ji was in deep sorrow...
> 
> *"... only the true Khalsa is qualified to rule, but todays Khalsa is not the true Khalsa.*
> 
> ...


 
I wish all souls to kindly pay some attention to these gem of words posted by Kaur-1 Ji . Why is it that we all find something lacking in our Eternal Guru - GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI that we have to take the refuge of something else like this Dera , who is the fifth generation of Dhirmals who tried to kill Seventh Nanak Guru Har Rai Ji by shooting at him prompting Guru Hargobind to declare that no Sikh should have sharing of Roti & Beti with the Dhirmals . Even today Sikh Rehat Maryada forbids Sikhs from having dealings with DHIRMALS .


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## spnadmin (Oct 6, 2008)

dalbirk ji

You make excellent arguments! The eternal Guru is what liberates us from the false ego of false babas.


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## sarbjitpunjabi (Oct 9, 2008)

Ssakal,
what you said could be right upto an extent but the existance of spirits in good and bad forms could not be denied - even if you go by gurubani.the best intro to this field and right way of underdstanding is to listen the tape recordings of  - suleman di katha - or contact rarasahib.com , karamsar ( district ludhiana ) . This can easily clear manyy issues regarding bhoot , pret , shukar , mirach concept .
Thanks .
Sarbjit singh


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## ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in (Oct 10, 2008)

Dear Sarabjit Singh

It is question of believe. You do not want to believe in this. then O.K. 

I want to clear you that Baba Vadhbagh Singh Ji preaches the peoples about Gurbani. He beleive in total Meditation, hence he use that place. I advise you to visit the Gurudwara Manji Sahib (approved by recently Sh. Joginder Singh Vedanti) where all programs are as per Guru Granth Sahib & nothing is about bhoot prets etc.

I also total believe in Gurbani & Guru Granth Sahib. 

Regards
Sunder Singh





sarbjitpunjabi said:


> Ssakal,
> what you said could be right upto an extent but the existance of spirits in good and bad forms could not be denied - even if you go by gurubani.the best intro to this field and right way of underdstanding is to listen the tape recordings of - suleman di katha - or contact rarasahib.com , karamsar ( district ludhiana ) . This can easily clear manyy issues regarding bhoot , pret , shukar , mirach concept .
> Thanks .
> Sarbjit singh


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## dalbirk (Oct 10, 2008)

Though I haven't personally visited the Dera personally but I came to know that Sikh families offer the hair ( cut & presented ) there of their new-born child . This ritual is promoted as a very sacred event . The barbers r sitting there who cut the hair of Sikh infants clean a sort of MUNDAN in Hindus . A small portion of child's hair is given to the parents for preservation as these r treated as SACRED . Rest r flowed away in stream water flowing alongwith the Dera . The reason told behind this is for the safety of new-born child from the evil effects of BLACK MAGIC & overall health of the child . Here the thing to be noted is the Sikh Rehat Maryada requires a person to keep his/her that very HAIR INTACT with whom he/she had taken birth . No cutting of hair is allowed under any circumstances .


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## pk70 (Oct 10, 2008)

dalbirk said:


> Though I haven't personally visited the Dera personally but I came to know that Sikh families offer the hair ( cut & presented ) there of their new-born child . This ritual is promoted as a very sacred event . The barbers r sitting there who cut the hair of Sikh infants clean a sort of MUNDAN in Hindus . A small portion of child's hair is given to the parents for preservation as these r treated as SACRED . Rest r flowed away in stream water flowing alongwith the Dera . The reason told behind this is for the safety of new-born child from the evil effects of BLACK MAGIC & overall health of the child . Here the thing to be noted is the Sikh Rehat Maryada requires a person to keep his/her that very HAIR INTACT with whom he/she had taken birth . No cutting of hair is allowed under any circumstances .



*Dalbirk ji,*
*I am glad you are bringing it here so that others learn about these things.
*
*  As your previous post was also pretty much helpful to understand that Sikhs should stay away from all this  by understanding why Guru ji preached “shabad’ the praise of Lord, why stress is given to understand the purpose of life and  to come back home instead of enslaving ourselves to others.  Ram Raye and Dhirmalye did their best to detour Sikhs from Guru Nanak panth up to some extent, they succeeded in luring weak-minded. Here on this forum, people claim to have solved all problems just by going there, why? It is a way of promoting all what Guru stood against. If they are happy why they are promoting Dera here? They are looking for weak-minded, they curse to suffer who oppose these shops I read here comments by supporter of this shop” do not talk nonsense about dera, you will suffer” This is what they have learnt from there. No civility, no logic. It is a desperate agenda. Ram Raye and Dhirmal and their mandli died for Sikhs when they stood against Sikh Gurus and aligned by the enemy of Guru Ghar.*
*All fears are created, weak-minded become victims first, who are between, they get scared by seeing the crowd bowing to such shops. See the ad of Peer ji and Pandit Maharaj, it is all over. Why? Same thing, a lot of so called Sikhs have no faith in Guru Nanak, they have no faith in the Lord either. Quick fix and love of illusions create a lot quagmire of hallucinations. Truly walking on Guru Nanak panth, Sikhs do not need to fear from any thing (including bhoot or prêt). When from the heart one surrenders to Guru and naturally establishes true faith in His Ordinance, the show of these shops becomes laughable.:down:*


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## sarbjitpunjabi (Oct 10, 2008)

sunder singh ji 
ssakall
if you go through my message again  , you will find that actually i have corroborated what you had said . you will know it when you will go through the tape i mentioned about rarasahib which took place in 1967 in saharnpur UP India. i live in Toronto if you are there , i can give you a copy of the said matter .
thanks . 
sarbjit singh


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## ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in (Oct 11, 2008)

Dear Mr. Sarabjit Singh Ji

Sat Shri Akal

I do not know what it in the Tape (Rara Sahib). I want to submit you that there are more than 70% Sikh-Amritdhari, who persuade the Saheeds, Matties in Punjab, Why the religious leaders could not get success to stop the peoples regarding this. As this is related to question of beleive. But some of peoples do not understand this and their such behaviourmake a big distance with the Sikh religion and the peoples who want beleive in Guru Granth Sahib. 

In 1947 Many of Sindhi Sikh (Whose 100% beleive in Gurbani) come to India and they proudly say that they are Sikh. But bad behaviour of some of peoples, who do not understand their feelings due to their Clean Shave, Cut of hairs etc and say that they are not SIKH. Some of Sindhi make a Gurudwara in Maharasthra, but due to such behaviour, they have change the name of Gurudwara and now they say "SINDHI MANDIR". Due to such behaviour, Sikhism is reducing.

Recently, some of students has not admitted in Guru Ram Dass Institute, Amritsar as they are not complete Sikh. The Court has ordered to SGPC to submit the meanings of Amritdhar Sikh & Sehjdhari Sikh. 

Hence Veer Mere it is my advise to do not condem anything in which peoples beleive. Further I do not want comment on anything.



sarbjitpunjabi said:


> sunder singh ji
> ssakall
> if you go through my message again , you will find that actually i have corroborated what you had said . you will know it when you will go through the tape i mentioned about rarasahib which took place in 1967 in saharnpur UP India. i live in Toronto if you are there , i can give you a copy of the said matter .
> thanks .
> sarbjit singh


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## sarbjitpunjabi (Oct 11, 2008)

BHAI SAHIB JI ,
SAT SRI AKAL .
AS FOR AS DERA VADHBAGH SINGH IS CONCERNED , I AM AS AWARE OF IT, AS YOU ARE .THE ONLY THING I WAS TRYING TO SAY WAS THAT THE SYSTEM THAT EXIST AT DEHRA SAHIB IS NOT UNDERSTOOD BY MANY Sikhs . FIRST - THEY THINK THAT SPIRITS DON`T EXIST AT ALL AND THEIR TREATMENT OF ANY KIND IS TOTALLY UNFOUNDED . SECOND , THEY THINK THAT THEY UNDERSTAND Sikhism BETTER THAN ANYBODY ELSE - WHILE THERE IS VERY DEEP DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING RELIGIOUS AND BEING SPIRITUAL . THIRD - ALL THE SPIRITS ARE NOT BAD AND THEY HAVE THEIR OWN WORLD WHICH YOU CAN EASILY UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU LISTEN TO *SULEMAN DI KATHA TAPE  AVAIALANLE FROM RARASAHIB GURUDAWARA **NEAR LUDHIANA . SULLEMAN WAS A MUSLIM WHO ACCOMPANIED MAHMUD GAZNAVI ON HIS FIRST INVASION OF INDIA . THE GUY  BECAME AN EXPERT IN SPRITUAL BUSINESS AND COMITTED SO MANY CRIMES . WHEN HE WAS PRESENTED BRFORE DHARAMRAJ , HE WAS SENTENCED 1000 YEARS OF BHOOT LIFE  AND WAS LIBERATED BY SANT ISHAR SINGH JI OF RARA SAHIB* *WHERE HE TOLD EVERYTHING  ABOUT HIMSELF AND WHATEVER HE HAD GONE THROUGH* *TIL THEN* *AND  HOW HE TOLD ABOUT HIS NEXT BIRTH WHICH* *TOOK PLACE IN VILLAGE LALATON , DISTRICT LUDHIANA . BELIEVE ME , THIS RECORDING OF HIS REVEALATIONS IS AN EYE OPENER .*
*GODD LUCK .*
*SARBJIT SINGH*


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## sarbjitpunjabi (Oct 11, 2008)

gentleman , 
though , one` s belief may be different then others , it is not sikhism to insult others - by doing so you are only insulting you thesis -  gurubani .
_one can not understand life , let alone gurubani and live its message  till one pays the price of such experiences .  Plaease  , keep in mind that everything is occuring by his will - evrything my friends .if one could make others understand whatever he thinks is right  easily , then aging has no existance . _
_to , those who call it  a mental block , the treatment of such abnormalities may  not be of your liking - but the existance is not -_ *please , reffer to sukhmani sahib.....  Kayee kot bhoot sukar* *mirgach .*
*or visit rarasahib gurudawara , district ludhana and ask for suleman di tape  - believe me this will be an eye opener for you .*
*us da roop dohin passin hai , sargun uhi nirgun vi ohi kaladhr jin sagli mohi .*
*sat siri akal.*


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## pk70 (Oct 11, 2008)

*Gurbani is to make the soul free of all worldly and supernatural fears and to guide it to be worthy of merging with Lord. Sikhs, if do not reach to that state of merging with HIM, should continue to struggle to be worthy of HIM by following Guru Granth Sahib ji. How many become Amritdhari, how many do the Gurbani Kirtan is not important according to Gurbani if the soul is still into duality. Sindhis who believe in Gurbani and if they are doing their best to live by Gurbani, they are better Sikhs than those Amritdharis who are more into duality and hypocrisy. Staying away from manmatt and “duality preaching sangat”, is repeated in Gurbani, it is not slandering of any one( ninddyaa, as claimed by some posters here) it is a warning not to get drowned into duality again after Guru Sahibaan’s labor of centuries to keep people on right path. Gurbani is all about His love, Guru’s guidance is to make the soul worthy of the Lord. Sikhs do not need to listen to Suleman story, they need to pay more attention to become aware of what we see and what we should do and to be more aware of our purpose of being here. Sikhs do not need to worry about Bhoot or prêt or any thing including fear of death, financial loss etc. It is the true faith in Guru (actually following him) and in the Lord, that makes one true Sikh, not the knowledge of any thing.*
*A place run by those who stood totally against Guru Nanak house should be avoided and all the energy putting in promoting them, should be invested in understanding Gurbani to live as Guru instructed through Gurbani..*

*Rgarding Bhoot Pret as per Sukhmani Sahib, here it is, lets see if Sikhs are instructed to seek help from any one or it is said in different context*
*ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਰਾਜਸ ਤਾਮਸ ਸਾਤਕ ॥ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਅਰੁ ਸਾਸਤ ॥ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਕੀਏ ਰਤਨ ਸਮੁਦ ॥ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਨਾਨਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਜੰਤ ॥ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਕੀਏ ਚਿਰ ਜੀਵੇ ॥ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਗਿਰੀ ਮੇਰ ਸੁਵਰਨ ਥੀਵੇ ॥ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਜਖ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਕਿੰਨਰ ਪਿਸਾਚ ॥ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਭੂਤ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਸੂਕਰ ਮ੍ਰਿਗਾਚ ॥ ਸਭਤੇਨੇਰੈਸਭਹੂਤੇਦੂਰਿ॥ਨਾਨਕਆਪਿਅਲਿਪਤੁਰਹਿਆਭਰਪੂਰਿ॥੪॥*
Many millions abide in the dispositions of activity, darkness and calmness. There are many millions of Vedas, Puranas, Simirtis and Shastras. Many millions of oceans with pearls have been made. Many millions are the beings of various descriptions. Many millions are made who live-long. (By Lord's order) many millions of hills and mountains have become of gold. Many millions are the high-ranking Gods, celestial singers and Satans. Many millions are evil spirits ghosts, swines and tigers. The Lord is near all, yet far from all. *Nanak the Lord is filling every thing, yet He Himself remains apart.*
*Guru ji is stating  in above Guru bachan about “NIRGUNA WAHEGURU” and HIS expansion as “SARGUNA”, stress is on HIS ordinance,” HUKME UNDR SABH KO BAHIR HUKM NA KOYE” Guru Vaak is interpreted in detail, to understand this, read the  Guru Bachan that follows the above*
*ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਕੇ ਵਾਸੀ ॥ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਨਰਕ ਸੁਰਗ ਨਿਵਾਸੀ ॥ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਜਨਮਹਿ ਜੀਵਹਿ ਮਰਹਿ ॥ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਬਹੁ ਜੋਨੀ ਫਿਰਹਿ ॥ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਬੈਠਤ ਹੀ ਖਾਹਿ ॥ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਘਾਲਹਿ ਥਕਿ ਪਾਹਿ ॥ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਕੀਏ ਧਨਵੰਤ ॥ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਹਿ ਚਿੰਤ *॥ *ਜਹਜਹਭਾਣਾਤਹਤਹਰਾਖੇ॥ਨਾਨਕਸਭੁਕਿਛੁਪ੍ਰਭਕੈਹਾਥੇ॥੫॥*
Millions upon millions are the dwellers of the under-worlds. Millions upon millions are the dwellers of hell and heaven. Millions upon millions are born, live, and die. Millions upon millions go round in many existences. Many millions eat whilst sitting idle. Many millions are wearied with labour. Many millions are created wealthy. Many millions are engrossed in the anxiety of wealth.*Where-so-ever the Lord wills there He keeps the mortals.Nanak everything is in the Lord's hands*. 
*Sikhs are guided to Guru ( Now Sree Guru Granth Sahib Ji), Gurus’ guidance elevates  the soul above supernatural fears as divine knowledge infused by Guru changes the whole landscape.*
*ਗੁਰੁ ਦਰੀਆਉ ਸਦਾ ਜਲੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਮੈਲੁ ਹਰੈ ॥ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਪਾਇਐ ਪੂਰਾ ਨਾਵਣੁ ਪਸੂ ਪਰੇਤਹੁ ਦੇਵ ਕਰੈ ॥੨॥ *
Gur ḏarī▫ā▫o saḏā jal nirmal mili▫ā ḏurmaṯ mail harai. Saṯgur pā▫i▫ai pūrā nāvaṇ pasū pareṯahu ḏev karai. ||2|| 
The Guru is the River, from which the Pure Water is obtained forever; it washes away the filth and pollution of evil-mindedness. Finding the True Guru, the perfect cleansing bath is obtained, which transforms even beasts and ghosts into gods. ||2|| 
*Without following Gurbani and without blossoming love for the Lord in the heart, all baggage falls on the soul*
*ਕਬੀਰ ਜਾ ਘਰ ਸਾਧ ਨ ਸੇਵੀਅਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਨਾਹਿ ॥ 
Kabeer, those houses in which neither the Holy nor the Lord are served - 
ਤੇ ਘਰ ਮਰਹਟ ਸਾਰਖੇ ਭੂਤ ਬਸਹਿ ਤਿਨ ਮਾਹਿ ॥੧੯੨॥(SGGS 1374)
those houses are like cremation grounds; demons dwell within them. ||192||*

*Who go astray, their destiny will be worth repenting.*
*ਰਉ ਭੂਤ ਸੀਤਲਾ ਧਾਵੈ ॥ 
One who chases after the god Bhairau, evil spirits and the goddess of smallpox, 
ਖਰ ਬਾਹਨੁ ਉਹੁ ਛਾਰੁ ਉਡਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ 
is riding on a donkey, kicking up the dust. ||1|| 
ਹਉ ਤਉ ਏਕੁ ਰਮਈਆ ਲੈਹਉ ॥ ( 874)
I take only the Name of the One Lord.*
*A Sikh has to board on one boat in control of Guru, stepping in another boat at the same time will bring what, is obvious.*

*CALL OF THE GURU* *IS*

*ਥਿਰੁ ਘਰਿ ਬੈਸਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਪਿਆਰੇ ॥*

Thir gẖar baishu har jan pi▫āre.
Remain steady in the home of your own self, O beloved servant of the Lord 11
*ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ  ਤੁਮਰੇ  ਕਾਜ  ਸਵਾਰੇ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥( SGGS 201)* 11
Saṯgur ṯumre kāj savāre. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The True Guru shall resolve all your affairs. ||1||Pause||
 Lord.


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## ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in (Oct 13, 2008)

Dear Sarabjit Ji

As per your advise, I will visit to Rara Sahib and get the tape of suleman and hear.
But it is my advise you to visit to Gurudwara Manji Sahib-Dera Baba Vadhbagh singh.

Regards
Sunder Singh



sarbjitpunjabi said:


> BHAI SAHIB JI ,
> SAT SRI AKAL .
> AS FOR AS DERA VADHBAGH SINGH IS CONCERNED , I AM AS AWARE OF IT, AS YOU ARE .THE ONLY THING I WAS TRYING TO SAY WAS THAT THE SYSTEM THAT EXIST AT DEHRA SAHIB IS NOT UNDERSTOOD BY MANY Sikhs . FIRST - THEY THINK THAT SPIRITS DON`T EXIST AT ALL AND THEIR TREATMENT OF ANY KIND IS TOTALLY UNFOUNDED . SECOND , THEY THINK THAT THEY UNDERSTAND Sikhism BETTER THAN ANYBODY ELSE - WHILE THERE IS VERY DEEP DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING RELIGIOUS AND BEING SPIRITUAL . THIRD - ALL THE SPIRITS ARE NOT BAD AND THEY HAVE THEIR OWN WORLD WHICH YOU CAN EASILY UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU LISTEN TO *SULEMAN DI KATHA TAPE AVAIALANLE FROM RARASAHIB GURUDAWARA **NEAR LUDHIANA . SULLEMAN WAS A MUSLIM WHO ACCOMPANIED MAHMUD GAZNAVI ON HIS FIRST INVASION OF INDIA . THE GUY BECAME AN EXPERT IN SPRITUAL BUSINESS AND COMITTED SO MANY CRIMES . WHEN HE WAS PRESENTED BRFORE DHARAMRAJ , HE WAS SENTENCED 1000 YEARS OF BHOOT LIFE AND WAS LIBERATED BY SANT ISHAR SINGH JI OF RARA SAHIB* *WHERE HE TOLD EVERYTHING ABOUT HIMSELF AND WHATEVER HE HAD GONE THROUGH* *TIL THEN* *AND HOW HE TOLD ABOUT HIS NEXT BIRTH WHICH* *TOOK PLACE IN VILLAGE LALATON , DISTRICT LUDHIANA . BELIEVE ME , THIS RECORDING OF HIS REVEALATIONS IS AN EYE OPENER .*
> *GODD LUCK .*
> *SARBJIT SINGH*


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## dalbirk (Oct 13, 2008)

pk70 said:


> *Gurbani is to make the soul free of all worldly and supernatural fears and to guide it to be worthy of merging with Lord. Sikhs, if do not reach to that state of merging with HIM, should continue to struggle to be worthy of HIM by following Guru Granth Sahib ji. How many become Amritdhari, how many do the Gurbani Kirtan is not important according to Gurbani if the soul is still into duality. Sindhis who believe in Gurbani and if they are doing their best to live by Gurbani, they are better Sikhs than those Amritdharis who are more into duality and hypocrisy. Staying away from manmatt and “duality preaching sangat”, is repeated in Gurbani, it is not slandering of any one( ninddyaa, as claimed by some posters here) it is a warning not to get drowned into duality again after Guru Sahibaan’s labor of centuries to keep people on right path. Gurbani is all about His love, Guru’s guidance is to make the soul worthy of the Lord. Sikhs do not need to listen to Suleman story, they need to pay more attention to become aware of what we see and what we should do and to be more aware of our purpose of being here. Sikhs do not need to worry about Bhoot or prêt or any thing including fear of death, financial loss etc. It is the true faith in Guru (actually following him) and in the Lord, that makes one true Sikh, not the knowledge of any thing.*
> *A place run by those who stood totally against Guru Nanak house should be avoided and all the energy putting in promoting them, should be invested in understanding Gurbani to live as Guru instructed through Gurbani..*
> 
> *Rgarding Bhoot Pret as per Sukhmani Sahib, here it is, lets see if Sikhs are instructed to seek help from any one or it is said in different context*
> ...


 

A very well written post PK Ji as always clears any doubts . Those who still have fear from SPIRITS , I may be forgiven for saying THEY HAVE NO FAITH IN GURU INSTEAD . The same applies to the SULEIMAN Tape by RARA SAHIB . I may actually say PK Ji has really said the LAST WORDS on this topic . END OF THE DEBATE .


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## ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in (Oct 13, 2008)

Dear Giyani Ji

Sat Shri Akal

I read your comments and it is abvious from the above that you have no place in your heart for feelings of others. You live in your own world. All hostorical books shows that only Babaji adopted the Sikhism and become complete Amritdhari Sikh and preaches the Gurbani as per Guru Granth Sahib. I have also so many comments about dera five years back. But I feel that there are so many Baba's, which fool the peoples.

If now the kalyugi persons (Baba) fool the peoples then what it the fault of Baba Vadhbagh Singh Ji. I give you a phone Number of Gurudwara Manji Sahib +91-1976-2634429 (Chief of Gurudwara Dr. Sant Singh). Who taken the worldlevel treatments, but he did not get any releif. He belongs to a very respective family. But after some of bath under Dholidhar, he get releif and decided to serve the Gurudwara for whole Life. Under his control, Gurudwara Manji Sahib is touching to the heights.

With his repeated ettempts, Shri Akal Takht Jathedhar Shri Joginder Singh Vedanti survey the Gurudwara and take a historical decision to include this Gurudwara in the Sikh Religion. 

It is my advise you to visit Dera Baba Vadbhag Singh and ask your all questions from the all Amritdhari Sikhs, why they visit this Gurudwara. They can reply you better than us.


ISDhillon said:


> Giani Ji I have read all of these on tapoban and was not allowed to respond but you can look at all my responses on the following sites :
> 
> Dera Baba Vadbhag Singh - The Voice of Sikh Youth
> 
> ...


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## ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in (Oct 13, 2008)

Dear Giyani Ji

Sat Shri Akal

I read your comments and it is abvious from the above that you have no place in your heart for feelings of others. You live in your own world. All hostorical books shows that only Babaji adopted the Sikhism and become complete Amritdhari Sikh and preaches the Gurbani as per Guru Granth Sahib. I have also so many comments about dera five years back. But I feel that there are so many Baba's, which fool the peoples.

If now the kalyugi persons (Baba) fool the peoples then what it the fault of Baba Vadhbagh Singh Ji. I give you a phone Number of Gurudwara Manji Sahib +91-1976-2634429 (Chief of Gurudwara Dr. Sant Singh). Who taken the worldlevel treatments, but he did not get any releif. He belongs to a very respective family. But after some of bath under Dholidhar, he get releif and decided to serve the Gurudwara for whole Life. Under his control, Gurudwara Manji Sahib is touching to the heights.

With his repeated ettempts, Shri Akal Takht Jathedhar Shri Joginder Singh Vedanti survey the Gurudwara and take a historical decision to include this Gurudwara in the Sikh Religion. 

It is my advise you to visit Dera Baba Vadbhag Singh and ask your all questions from the all Amritdhari Sikhs, why they visit this Gurudwara. They can reply you better than us



Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> ISDhillon Jio,
> 
> I went to the sites you mentioned ( by the way i am a member of BOTH..and SikhHistory.com as well ) and NOT EVEN ONE poster supports your one sided skewed views..and the people on SikhAwareness are pretty LIBERAL on babas and deras and such..even the MOST LIBERAL of them all N30 had nothing to say in your support - on the contrary he saw so much MANMATT in your video...
> 
> ...


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## sarbjitpunjabi (Oct 13, 2008)

ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in said:


> dear sarabjit ji
> 
> as per your advise, i will visit to rara sahib and get the tape of suleman and hear.
> But it is my advise you to visit to gurudwara manji sahib-dera baba vadhbagh singh.
> ...


 
sat siri akal  .
From my childhood , i  used to visit derasahib till 2005 and stopped .
Sarbjit singh


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## spnadmin (Oct 13, 2008)

ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in said:


> Dear Giyani Ji
> 
> Sat Shri Akal
> 
> ...



ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in ji

What I want to point out as forum leader is that you have replied to a post of forum member Giani Jarnail Singh ji that he posted in July 2006, more than 2 years ago. His post was a reply to forum member ISDhillon ji, who  also posted in July 2006. And Giani ji has already said that he is not going to reply on the topic of  Baba Vadbhag Singh because he has no "inclination" to continue the discussion. Moreover, the video posted by ISDhillon, thread starter, in the very first post of the thread, is no longer on the Internet. So no one can see it. Newer members at this point have no idea what this is about.

So it may be wise for all participants to move forward in the discussion and consider this earlier phase of the discussion long over with.


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## ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in (Oct 21, 2008)

Dear Manbir

Baba Vadhbhag Singh Ji was a Complete Sikh and adopt the sikhism. Baba Vadhbhag Singh never say himself Guru. He preaches the peoples of Satguru Nanak Bani. 80% Amritdhari peoples goes to this place. Baba Ji never preaches to the peoples about the Ghosts. They ordered to Raksh Bir Nahar Singh to serve the peoples by removing their all mentally disturbances. The peoples who goes to this place with "Shardha", they feel releif after some baths under Dholidhar. This place is a very very respectful, hence nobody should codem it.


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## spnadmin (Oct 21, 2008)

Thank you.


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## ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in (Nov 24, 2008)

spark said:


> any person who say that the DERA SAHIB is faltu place im sure he has to suffer alot alot
> sikh is sikh he has no rigth yo say bad.all the people are selfish who say DERA is faltu.
> if any person work done than say this place is best but if the peolple like u all r foolish who at home saying this is fake place. i wish at ur home u also has to suffer.
> than tell me what is IMPORTANCE o this place.
> ...


 
Dear Veer Ji

I read your above reply and I appreciate. As such foolish peoples do not have mind to understand the feeling of devotees of Baba Vadbhag Singh Ji.

Regards
Sunder Singh Thandi
ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in


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## ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in (Nov 24, 2008)

Bhai Sahib.

any person who say that the DERA SAHIB is faltu place im sure he has to suffer alot alot
Sikh is Sikh he has no rigth yo say bad.all the people are selfish who say DERA is faltu.
if any person work done than say this place is best but if the peolple like u all r foolish who at home saying this is fake place. i wish at ur home u also has to suffer.
than tell me what is IMPORTANCE o this place.
Sikh DA YA KISE WE DHARAM DA HOWE USNU MAHRA KEHN DA KOI HAK NE.
JE TUHANU KISE CHIZ DA NHI PTA TA EWE KYU BAKWAS KRDA.


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## pk70 (Nov 24, 2008)

ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in said:


> Bhai Sahib.



   Bhai Sahib.

any person who say that the DERA SAHIB is faltu place im sure he has to suffer alot a lot

*Let us suffer because as per our Guru, pains and peace are his gifts, Gursikhs should take them as they come instead of bowing to other human beings.
*Sikh is Sikh he has no rigth yo say bad.all the people are selfish who say DERA is faltu.
*We Sikhs have the right  not to believe any other than Satguru Nanak and the Lord
*if any person work done than say this place is best but if the peolple like u all r foolish who at home saying this is fake place. i wish at ur home u also has to suffer.
*Kindly wish bad for me with the help of your Baba, I will not call you guys because my refuge is only in Guru Nanak and the Lord
*than tell me what is IMPORTANCE o this place.
*No interest to know it at all,  It doesn’t exist for me.
*Sikh DA YA KISE WE DHARAM DA HOWE USNU MAHRA KEHN DA KOI HAK NE.
*Write in English so that all should understand your precious advice; refusing to believe others and sharing no interest in others advertisement than the Guru Nanak’s advice,  is a bold step to walk on Gurmat
*JE TUHANU KISE CHIZ DA NHI PTA TA EWE KYU BAKWAS KRDA.
*What is this chiz you are talking about? Sree Guru Granth Sahib Ji says keep faith in Guru and the Lord in tact and take pain and happiness equally, and then why it is necessary to bow to any baba and be in an illusion that Baba can save us not the Lord. If any thing happens, it is not Baba, it is Lord’s* *own Ordinance. This is what Guru ji says and we believe Guru ji not the Babas*
*ਪੰਨਾ 1189, ਸਤਰ 5**http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1189&punjabi=t&id=51333#l51333
**ਦੁਖ ਸੁਖ* *ਦਾਤੇ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਮੇਰੇ **॥**੨**॥
**दुख सुख दाते ठाकुर मेरे ॥२॥
**Ḏ**uk**ẖ** suk**ẖ* *ḏ**ā**ṯ**e **ṯẖ**ākur mere. ||2||
**My Lord and Master is the Giver of pain and pleasure. ||2||
**ਮਃ **1 **http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1256&punjabi=t&id=53988#l53988
**ਦੁਖ ਸੁਖ* *ਦੋਊ ਸਮ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਨੈ ਬੁਰਾ ਭਲਾ ਸੰਸਾਰ **॥**
**दुख सुख दोऊ सम करि जानै बुरा भला संसार ॥
**Ḏ**uk**ẖ** suk**ẖ* *ḏ**o▫ū sam kar jānai burā b**ẖ**alā sansār.
**He sees pleasure and pain as both the same, along with good and bad in the world.
**ਮਃ **1 **http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1270&punjabi=t&id=54559#l54559
**ਦੁਖ ਸੁਖ* ਕਰਤੇ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਰਜਾਇ ॥
*दुख सुख करते हुकमु रजाइ ॥
**Ḏ**uk**ẖ** suk**ẖ** kar**ṯ**e hukam rajā▫e.
**Pain and pleasure come by Your Command, O Creator Lord.
**ਮਃ **5 *

*Regarding” bakvaas( rubbish talk), I have a question to you, is this way Baba teaches to behave with some one who doesn’t believe in him? If yes, I feel sorry for both of you*


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## ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in (Nov 25, 2008)

Sat Shri Akal

I read your comments and it is abvious from the above that you have no place in your heart for feelings of others. You live in your own world. All historical books shows that only Babaji adopted the [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/"]Sikhism[/URL] and become complete Amritdhari [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/"]Sikh[/URL] and preaches the Gurbani as per (Guru Granth Sahib - The History, Arrangements and Text)[URL="http://www.sikhism.us/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/666-guru-granth-sahib-history-arrangements-text.html"]Guru Granth[/URL] Sahib. I have also so many comments about dera five years back. But I feel that there are so many Baba's, which fool the peoples.

If now the kalyugi persons (Baba) fool the peoples then what it the fault of Baba Vadhbagh Singh Ji. I give you a phone Number of Gurudwara Manji Sahib +91-1976-2634429 (Chief of Gurudwara Dr. Sant Singh). Who taken the worldlevel treatments, but he did not get any releif. He belongs to a very respective family. But after some of bath under Dholidhar, he get releif and decided to serve the Gurudwara for whole Life. Under his control, Gurudwara Manji Sahib is touching to the heights.

With his repeated ettempts, Shri Akal Takht Jathedhar Shri Joginder Singh Vedanti survey the Gurudwara and take a historical decision to include this Gurudwara in the [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/"]Sikh[/URL] Religion. 

It is my advise you to visit Dera Baba Vadbhag Singh and ask your all questions from the all Amritdhari [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/sikhs/"]Sikhs[/URL], why they visit this Gurudwara. They can reply you better than me.





pk70 said:


> Bhai Sahib.
> 
> any person who say that the DERA SAHIB is faltu place im sure he has to suffer alot a lot
> 
> ...


----------



## pk70 (Nov 25, 2008)

ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in said:


> Sat Shri Akal
> Sat Shri Akal
> 
> I read your comments and it is abvious from the above that you have no place in your heart for feelings of others. You live in your own world. All historical books shows that only Babaji adopted the Sikhism and become complete Amritdhari Sikh and preaches the Gurbani as per (Guru Granth Sahib - The History, Arrangements and Text) (Guru Granth Sahib


 

*Sat sree Akaal ji*

*I wonder why you are bringing your feelings and others feelings here, if as a Guru Nanak follower, I refuse to believe any one other than Guru ji, why feelings of others will be hurt? I am not giving up my faith in my Guru ji just to please others. *
*Regarding living in small world, well let me just share with you, world also exists outside the sanctuary of wadbhag ji, for many years Ram Rai clan was not entertained by Sikhs, do you think they also lived in small world? Or any one who does not believe in your baba ji is living in a small world? If that is what you can think of, I congratulate on understanding the world. Were you not cursing others to suffer? What big world that could be that inspires you to curse others who do not want to believe in your baba ji. I am happy with the guidance provided by Sree Guru Granth Sahib ji, why should I care if the Babas has turned Sikh or not?*

  It is my advise you to visit Dera Baba Vadbhag Singh and ask your all questions from the all Amritdhari Sikhs, why they visit this Gurudwara. They can reply you better than me.

*I wrote you earlier that I am not interested in your baba, he doesn’t exist for me, thanks for the free advice, you have been very kind*


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## ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in (Nov 26, 2008)

Dear

Thanks for your comments. I full faith in Guru Granth Sahib & Babaji as I respect everybody. If you do not have beleive others, then the question of other comments does not arise as you can not understand the feelings of others.







pk70 said:


> *Sat sree Akaal ji*
> 
> *I wonder why you are bringing your feelings and others feelings here, if as a Guru Nanak follower, I refuse to believe any one other than Guru ji, why feelings of others will be hurt? I am not giving up my faith in my Guru ji just to please others. *
> *Regarding living in small world, well let me just share with you, world also exists outside the sanctuary of wadbhag ji, for many years Ram Rai clan was not entertained by Sikhs, do you think they also lived in small world? Or any one who does not believe in your baba ji is living in a small world? If that is what you can think of, I congratulate on understanding the world. Were you not cursing others to suffer? What big world that could be that inspires you to curse others who do not want to believe in your baba ji. I am happy with the guidance provided by Sree Guru Granth Sahib ji, why should I care if the Babas has turned Sikh or not?*
> ...


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## pk70 (Nov 26, 2008)

*SPN sangat jio*
*Guru ji clears all the doubt about duality in the following Guru bachan. In it learning to understand HIS ordinance is advised instead of getting distracted by others, enjoy Guru bachan*

*ਮਃ ੩ **॥ **ਹੋਰੁ ਬਿਰਹਾ ਸਭ ਧਾਤੁ ਹੈ ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ **॥ **ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹਿਆ ਵੇਖਣੁ ਸੁਨਣੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ **॥ **ਸਹ ਦੇਖੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਨ ਊਪਜੈ ਅੰਧਾ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੇਇ **॥ **ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨਿ ਅਖੀ ਲੀਤੀਆ ਸੋਈ ਸਚਾ ਦੇਇ **॥**੨**॥ *
*Mėhlā 3. **Hor birhā sabẖ ḏẖāṯ hai jab lag sāhib parīṯ na ho▫e. **Ih man mā▫i▫ā mohi▫ā vekẖaṇ sunaṇ na ho▫e. **Sah ḏekẖe bin parīṯ na ūpjai anḏẖā ki▫ā kare▫i. **Nānak jin akẖī līṯī▫ā so▫ī sacẖā ḏe▫e. ||2|| *
*Third Guru. **Except the love one professes for the Lord, all other loves are unstable. **This mind is infatuated by mammon so much so, that it can see and hear not. **Without beholding the Spouse(Lord), love is not produced. What can a blind man do? **Nanak, that True One who deprived man of the eyes, can restore them**.( means who puts us into Maya, takes Himself out of it by showing the path through the true Guru) *
*ਜਦ* *ਤਾਈਂ ਮਾਲਕ ਨਾਲ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ (ਉਤਪੰਨ) ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦੀ**, **ਹੋਰ ਪਿਆਰ ਸਭ ਮਾਇਆ (ਦਾ ਪਿਆਰ) ਹੈ**, **ਤੇ ਮਾਇਆ ਵਿਚ ਮੋਹਿਆ ਇਹ ਮਨ (ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ) ਵੇਖ ਤੇ ਸੁਣ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਦਾ**। **ਅੰਨ੍ਹਾ (ਮਨ)* *ਕਰੇ ਭੀ ਕੀਹ**? (**ਪ੍ਰਭੂ) ਪਤੀ ਨੂੰ ਵੇਖਣ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦੀ**।* *ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! (ਮਾਇਆ ਵਿਚ ਫਸਾ ਕੇ) ਜਿਸ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਅੰਨ੍ਹਾ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ**, **ਉਹੀ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ* *ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਮੁੜ ਅੱਖਾਂ ਦੇਂਦਾ ਹੈ**।**੨**। *

*ਪਉੜੀ **॥ **ਹਰਿ ਇਕੋ ਕਰਤਾ ਇਕੁ ਇਕੋ ਦੀਬਾਣੁ ਹਰਿ **॥ **ਹਰਿ ਇਕਸੈ ਦਾ ਹੈ ਅਮਰੁ ਇਕੋ ਹਰਿ ਚਿਤਿ ਧਰਿ **॥ **ਹਰਿ ਤਿਸੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਕੋਈ ਨਾਹਿ ਡਰੁ ਭ੍ਰਮੁ ਭਉ ਦੂਰਿ ਕਰਿ **॥ **ਹਰਿ ਤਿਸੈ ਨੋ ਸਾਲਾਹਿ ਜਿ ਤੁਧੁ ਰਖੈ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਘਰਿ **॥ **ਹਰਿ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਹੋਇ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਸੋ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਿ ਭਉ ਬਿਖਮੁ ਤਰਿ **॥**੧**॥ *
*Pa▫oṛī. **Har iko karṯā ik iko ḏībāṇ har. **Har iksai ḏā hai amar iko har cẖiṯ ḏẖar. **Har ṯis bin ko▫ī nāhi dar bẖaram bẖa▫o ḏūr kar. **Har ṯisai no sālāhi jė ṯuḏẖ rakẖai bāhar gẖar. **Har jis no ho▫e ḏa▫i▫āl so har jap bẖa▫o bikẖam ṯar. ||1|| *
*Pauri. **God alone is the Creator of all and but one is God's Court. **God's alone is the command, and place thou God alone in thy mind. **Without that Lord there is no other. Remove thou thy dread, doubt and fear**. **Praise that Master alone, who protects thee, within thy home and without. **He, unto whom God becomes merciful, swims across the formidable ocean of fear by remembering God. *
*ਹੇ* *ਭਾਈ! ਇਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ (ਸਭ ਦਾ) ਕਰਨਹਾਰ ਤੇ ਆਸਰਾ ਹੈ**, **ਇਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਹੁਕਮ (ਵਰਤ ਰਿਹਾ* *ਹੈ)**, (**ਇਸ ਕਰਕੇ) ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਸੰਭਾਲ**। **ਉਸ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਕੋਈ ਸ਼ਰੀਕ ਨਹੀਂ**, (**ਤਾਂ ਤੇ) ਹੋਰ ਦਾ ਡਰ ਤੇ ਭਰਮ ਦੂਰ ਕਰ ਦੇਹ**। (**ਹੇ ਜੀਵ!) ਉਸੇ ਹਰੀ ਦੀ ਉਸਤਤਿ ਕਰ ਜੋ* *ਤੇਰੀ ਸਭ ਥਾਈਂ ਰਾਖੀ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ**। **ਜਿਸ ਉਤੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਿਆਲ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ**, **ਉਹ ਜੀਵ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ* *ਸਿਮਰ ਕੇ ਔਖੇ (ਸੰਸਾਰ ਦੇ) ਡਰ ਤੋਂ ਪਾਰ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ**।**੧**।*
*Fear is ditch, never fall into it. Gurbani sets followers free and, be free of fear of any kind including death or sufferings*


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## Archived_Member4 (Nov 26, 2008)

ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in said:


> Dear
> 
> Thanks for your comments. I full faith in Guru Granth Sahib & Babaji as I respect everybody. If you do not have beleive others, then the question of other comments does not arise as you can not understand the feelings of others.


 
So by saying you have faith in both, does this mean you give your head to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and your Baba ji, and are you puting Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and your Baba ji on the same level?


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## ss_1972punjab@yahoo.co.in (Nov 27, 2008)

Dear Sat Shri Akal

I have cleared in my previous mails that Babaji preaches Gurbani as per Guru Granth Sahib to the peoples. He was a Sewadar of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.Hence the Guru Granth SAhib is the supreme to all the Sikhs. Babaji is a source.



Singh said:


> So by saying you have faith in both, does this mean you give your head to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and your Baba ji, and are you puting Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and your Baba ji on the same level?


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## dalbirk (Dec 29, 2009)

He is from the generation of DHIRMALIAS doing Anti- Gurmat deeds like Bhoots & Dolian Ghumana . Any dealing with him is strictly prohibted in various Rehatnaamas & also Sikh Rehat Maryada .


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## spnadmin (Aug 20, 2010)

*Name calling is a violation of TOS. If it is repeated the poster will receive a heavy infraction. These posts all 5 of them have been moved out of view. Do not repeat this performance. The warning applies to everyone, no matter which side you are on.*


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## santokhgill (Nov 12, 2012)

One does not understand about Baba VADBHAG Singh Jii , please refrain from your comments , this is a different side of sikhism & a very Rightous Cause !!!!!


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Nov 13, 2012)

santokhgill said:


> One does not understand about Baba VADBHAG Singh Jii , please refrain from your comments , this is a different side of sikhism & a very Rightous Cause !!!!!




We have 10 Gurus ( all now in SGGS). Can you name any one or two or more who TAUGHT this Baba vadbhag type of "Different side of Sikhism/Righteous Cause" ?? Can this be found in the Gurbani of SGGS ?? Bhai gurdass Ji ? Bhai nand Lal jis compositions ?? Any Sikh like Bhai kahn Singh nabha Bhai veer Singh etc taught about this side of sikhism ??


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