# Idol Worship



## K.Venugopal (Mar 22, 2009)

Sikhism, as is well known, does not believe in idol-worship. But may I respectfully ask if the rituals connected with the Guru Granth Sahib at the Golden Temple does not look similar to idol worship?


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## Astroboy (Mar 22, 2009)

I will give it this approach. 

Two people are lighting a deeva each. One is a Hindu and one is a Sikh.
A Hindu while lighting his deeva and offering flowers to his ideal idol God does it with a personal wish to be fulfilled in his prayer called Aarti.
A Sikh who is taught by SGGS, the Eternal and Everlasting Guru, lights his deeva and remembers the meaning of the Aarti (Sikh Aarti) - 

ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧  ॥
रागु धनासरी महला १ ॥
Rāg ḏẖanāsrī mėhlā 1.
Raag Dhanaasree, First Mehl:

 ਗਗਨ ਮੈ ਥਾਲੁ ਰਵਿ ਚੰਦੁ ਦੀਪਕ ਬਨੇ ਤਾਰਿਕਾ ਮੰਡਲ ਜਨਕ ਮੋਤੀ  ॥
गगन मै थालु रवि चंदु दीपक बने तारिका मंडल जनक मोती ॥
Gagan mai thāl rav cẖanḏ ḏīpak bane ṯārikā mandal janak moṯī.
Upon that cosmic plate of the sky, the sun and the moon are the lamps. The stars and their orbs are the studded pearls.

 ਧੂਪੁ ਮਲਆਨਲੋ ਪਵਣੁ ਚਵਰੋ ਕਰੇ ਸਗਲ ਬਨਰਾਇ ਫੂਲੰਤ ਜੋਤੀ  ॥੧॥
धूपु मलआनलो पवणु चवरो करे सगल बनराइ फूलंत जोती ॥१॥
Ḏẖūp mal▫ānlo pavaṇ cẖavro kare sagal banrā▫e fūlanṯ joṯī. ||1||
The fragrance of sandalwood in the air is the temple incense, and the wind is the fan. All the plants of the world are the altar flowers in offering to You, O Luminous Lord. ||1||

 ਕੈਸੀ ਆਰਤੀ ਹੋਇ  ॥
कैसी आरती होइ ॥
Kaisī ārṯī ho▫e.
What a beautiful Aartee, lamp-lit worship service this is!

 ਭਵ ਖੰਡਨਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਆਰਤੀ  ॥
भव खंडना तेरी आरती ॥
Bẖav kẖandnā ṯerī ārṯī.
O Destroyer of Fear, this is Your Ceremony of Light.

 ਅਨਹਤਾ ਸਬਦ ਵਾਜੰਤ ਭੇਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ  ॥
अनहता सबद वाजंत भेरी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Anhaṯā sabaḏ vājanṯ bẖerī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The Unstruck Sound-current of the Shabad is the vibration of the temple drums. ||1||Pause||

 ਸਹਸ ਤਵ ਨੈਨ ਨਨ ਨੈਨ ਹਹਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਕਉ ਸਹਸ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਨਨਾ ਏਕ ਤਹੀ  ॥
सहस तव नैन नन नैन हहि तोहि कउ सहस मूरति नना एक तोही ॥
Sahas ṯav nain nan nain hėh ṯohi ka▫o sahas mūraṯ nanā ek ṯohī.
You have thousands of eyes, and yet You have no eyes. You have thousands of forms, and yet You do not have even one.

 ਸਹਸ ਪਦ ਬਿਮਲ ਨਨ ਏਕ ਪਦ ਗੰਧ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਹਸ ਤਵ ਗੰਧ ਇਵ ਚਲਤ ਮੋਹੀ  ॥੨॥
सहस पद बिमल नन एक पद गंध बिनु सहस तव गंध इव चलत मोही ॥२॥
Sahas paḏ bimal nan ek paḏ ganḏẖ bin sahas ṯav ganḏẖ iv cẖalaṯ mohī. ||2||
You have thousands of Lotus Feet, and yet You do not have even one foot. You have no nose, but you have thousands of noses. This Play of Yours entrances me. ||2||

 ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਹੈ ਸੋਇ  ॥
सभ महि जोति जोति है सोइ ॥
Sabẖ mėh joṯ joṯ hai so▫e.
Amongst all is the Light-You are that Light.

 ਤਿਸ ਦੈ ਚਾਨਣਿ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਹੋਇ  ॥
तिस दै चानणि सभ महि चानणु होइ ॥
Ŧis ḏai cẖānaṇ sabẖ mėh cẖānaṇ ho▫e.
By this Illumination, that Light is radiant within all.

 ਗੁਰ ਸਾਖੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ  ॥
गुर साखी जोति परगटु होइ ॥
Gur sākẖī joṯ pargat ho▫e.
Through the Guru's Teachings, the Light shines forth.

 ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੁ ਆਰਤੀ ਹੋਇ  ॥੩॥
जो तिसु भावै सु आरती होइ ॥३॥
Jo ṯis bẖāvai so ārṯī ho▫e. ||3||
That which is pleasing to Him is the lamp-lit worship service. ||3||

 ਹਰਿ ਚਰਣ ਕਵਲ ਮਕਰੰਦ ਲੋਭਿਤ ਮਨੋ ਅਨਦਿਨ ਮੋਹਿ ਆਹੀ ਪਿਆਸਾ  ॥
हरि चरण कवल मकरंद लोभित मनो अनदिनो मोहि आही पिआसा ॥
Har cẖaraṇ kaval makranḏ lobẖiṯ mano anḏino mohi āhī pi▫āsā.
My mind is enticed by the honey-sweet Lotus Feet of the Lord. Day and night, I thirst for them.

 ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਜਲੁ ਦੇਹਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਰਿੰਗ ਕਉ ਹੋਇ ਜਾ ਤੇ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਇ ਵਾਸਾ  ॥੪॥੩॥
क्रिपा जलु देहि नानक सारिंग कउ होइ जा ते तेरै नाइ वासा ॥४॥३॥
Kirpā jal ḏėh Nānak sāring ka▫o ho▫e jā ṯe ṯerai nā▫e vāsā. ||4||3||
Bestow the Water of Your Mercy upon Nanak, the thirsty song-bird, so that he may come to dwell in Your Name. ||4||3||


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## Astroboy (Mar 22, 2009)

There is a very good reason why Sikhism is not in favor of Idol Worship. Read the shabad below:

ਆਸਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕੇ ਪੰਚਪਦੇ ੯ ਦੁਤੁਕੇ  ੫
आसा स्री कबीर जीउ के पंचपदे ९ दुतुके ५
Āsā sarī Kabīr jī▫o ke pancẖpaḏe 9 ḏuṯuke 5
Aasaa, Kabeer Jee, 9 Panch-Padas, 5 Du-Tukas:

 ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ  ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaŉkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

 ਪਾਤੀ ਤੋਰੈ ਮਾਲਿਨੀ ਪਾਤੀ ਪਾਤੀ ਜੀਉ  ॥
पाती तोरै मालिनी पाती पाती जीउ ॥
Pāṯī ṯorai mālini pāṯī pāṯī jī▫o.
You tear off the leaves, O gardener, but in each and every leaf, there is life.

 ਜਿਸੁ ਪਾਹਨ ਕਉ ਪਾਤੀ ਤੋਰੈ ਸੋ ਪਾਹਨ ਨਿਰਜੀਉ  ॥੧॥
जिसु पाहन कउ पाती तोरै सो पाहन निरजीउ ॥१॥
Jis pāhan ka▫o pāṯī ṯorai so pāhan nirjī▫o. ||1||
That stone idol, for which you tear off those leaves - that stone idol is lifeless. ||1||

 ਭੂਲੀ ਮਾਲਨੀ ਹੈ ਏਉ  ॥
भूली मालनी है एउ ॥
Bẖūlī mālnī hai e▫o.
In this, you are mistaken, O gardener.

 ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਜਾਗਤਾ ਹੈ ਦੇਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ  ॥
सतिगुरु जागता है देउ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Saṯgur jāgṯā hai ḏe▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The True Guru is the Living Lord. ||1||Pause||

 ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਾਤੀ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਡਾਰੀ ਫੂਲ ਸੰਕਰਦੇਉ  ॥
ब्रहमु पाती बिसनु डारी फूल संकरदेउ ॥
Barahm pāṯī bisan dārī fūl sankarḏe▫o.
Brahma is in the leaves, Vishnu is in the branches, and Shiva is in the flowers.

 ਤੀਨਿ ਦੇਵ ਪ੍ਰਤਖਿ ਤੋਰਹਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਕਿਸ ਕੀ ਸੇਉ  ॥੨॥
तीनि देव प्रतखि तोरहि करहि किस की सेउ ॥२॥
Ŧīn ḏev parṯakẖ ṯorėh karahi kis kī se▫o. ||2||
When you break these three gods, whose service are you performing? ||2||

 ਪਾਖਾਨ ਗਢਿ ਕੈ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਕੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਦੇ ਕੈ ਛਾਤੀ ਪਾਉ  ॥
पाखान गढि कै मूरति कीन्ही दे कै छाती पाउ ॥
Pākẖān gadẖ kai mūraṯ kīnĥī ḏe kai cẖẖāṯī pā▫o.
The sculptor carves the stone and fashions it into an idol, placing his feet upon its chest.

 ਜੇ ਏਹ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਸਾਚੀ ਹੈ ਤਉ ਗੜ੍ਹਣਹਾਰੇ ਖਾਉ  ॥੩॥
जे एह मूरति साची है तउ गड़्हणहारे खाउ ॥३॥
Je eh mūraṯ sācẖī hai ṯa▫o gaṛĥaṇhāre kẖā▫o. ||3||
If this stone god was true, it would devour the sculptor for this! ||3||

 ਭਾਤੁ ਪਹਿਤਿ ਅਰੁ ਲਾਪਸੀ ਕਰਕਰਾ ਕਾਸਾਰੁ  ॥
भातु पहिति अरु लापसी करकरा कासारु ॥
Bẖāṯ pahiṯ ar lāpsī karkarā kāsār.
Rice and beans, candies, cakes and cookies -

 ਭੋਗਨਹਾਰੇ ਭੋਗਿਆ ਇਸੁ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਕੇ ਮੁਖ ਛਾਰੁ  ॥੪॥
भोगनहारे भोगिआ इसु मूरति के मुख छारु ॥४॥
Bẖoganhāre bẖogi▫ā is mūraṯ ke mukẖ cẖẖār. ||4||
the priest enjoys these, while he puts ashes into the mouth of the idol. ||4||

 ਮਾਲਿਨਿ ਭੂਲੀ ਜਗੁ ਭੁਲਾਨਾ ਹਮ ਭੁਲਾਨੇ ਨਾਹਿ  ॥
मालिनि भूली जगु भुलाना हम भुलाने नाहि ॥
Mālin bẖūlī jag bẖulānā ham bẖulāne nāhi.
The gardener is mistaken, and the world is mistaken, but I am not mistaken.

 ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਹਮ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਖੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇ  ॥੫॥੧॥੧੪॥
कहु कबीर हम राम राखे क्रिपा करि हरि राइ ॥५॥१॥१४॥
Kaho Kabīr ham rām rākẖe kirpā kar har rā▫e. ||5||1||14||
Says Kabeer, the Lord preserves me; the Lord, my King, has showered His Blessings upon me. ||5||1||14||


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## spnadmin (Mar 22, 2009)

K.Venugopal said:


> Sikhism, as is well known, does not believe in idol-worship. But may I respectfully ask if the rituals connected with the Guru Granth Sahib at the Golden Temple does not look similar to idol worship?



K.Venugopal ji

I think you want a direct answer to your question. The sangat is not bowing to an idol. The Granth Sahib (in its physical form) is a book. The Granth Sahib in its spritual form carries the naad and the jyote of the Satguru. Between Guru Nanak or Nanak I and Guru Gobind Singh or Nanak X, the light which dispells darkness (Guru) was passed one to the other. It was passed by Guru Gobind Singh to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj. We are bowing to the Guru or light that dispels darkness within the Granth Sahib. We are not bowing to the book. 

It may look similar to idol worship if one does not understand that the Shabad is more than the words, ink and paper on which it is written, or the covering that keep is in one place.

From 2 posts above:


 http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਭਗੁਰ ਸਾਖੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ  ॥
गुर साखी जोति परगटु होइ ॥
Gur sākẖī joṯ pargat ho▫e.
Through the Guru's Teachings, the Light shines forth.


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## Archived_member7 (Mar 23, 2009)

We bow before the Knoweldge Content of the Sri Guru Granth Sahibji Maharaj . The 'VIDIYA' is worshipped. However we need to understand that the Guru Granth ji teaches us to worship the Divine Parmatma Akaal Purakh.

The rituals slowly got created which have now made the Guru Granthji Mahraj equivalent to the Idol. We only worship the Holy Book. We have not been trying to understand what the Book says.

The more some Sikhs criticized Idol worship the more rituals crept in. I have failed to understand why should people do neenda(crticism) of someone's ways of worship. The worst thing is the hindu was the soft target of such criticism only because reactions did not come out . They accepted such criticism lightly. The same could not be expected from a muslim.

How a person finds his way to God is his/her personal view and interest. Whether he/she finds it through paper, stone, metal, fire etc. is all a matter of personal conviction.


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## spnadmin (Mar 23, 2009)

rajkhalsa ji

The way people choose to worship is indeed as you imply their private concern. The question put forth in the thread has to do with whether Sikhs worship Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj. In this instance, the answer could be per Gurmat Vichaar or it could be an answer that is not as per Gurmat. Sikhs are not worshiping the Granth Sahib and so we need to feel free to say so without any hesitation, apologies oar hemming and hawing. :welcome:


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## kds1980 (Mar 23, 2009)

> We bow before the Knoweldge Content of the Sri Guru Granth Sahibji Maharaj . The 'VIDIYA' is worshipped. However we need to understand that the Guru Granth ji teaches us to worship the Divine Parmatma Akaal Purakh.



.I think when we bow to Guru granth sahib we bow to all the Guru's because Gurgaddi was given To Guru granth sahib


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## vsgrewal48895 (Mar 23, 2009)

K.Venugopal said:


> Sikhism, as is well known, does not believe in idol-worship. But may I respectfully ask if the rituals connected with the Guru Granth Sahib at the Golden Temple does not look similar to idol worship?


 
Dear K. Venugopal Ji,

I concur with your observation that lot of Hindu rituals have crept in Sikh Gurudwaras and all Sikhs know it and are in Denial. It is time for them to wake up. Spinnig the rituals to bowing and diverting attention from the real rituals is not right. Paying respect to AGGS by bowing with a clean heart is not a ritual IMHO.

Cordially,

Virinder S. Grewal
Williamston, MI


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Mar 24, 2009)

Dear All,

Even though its relatively easy to "rationalise" any behaviour..soem of the actions that we see daily on Live TV happening in Harmandir Sahib Amrtisar on Sattelite..are bordering on the ritualistic behaviour we see happening in Hindu Mandirs also broadcast simultaneously on other live channels. To a complete "neutral/stranger" to BOTH Sikhismand hinduism...it woudl be hard pressed to distinguish between the two except for the clearly visible differences..like the Hindu mandir Idols are made of stuff that can be "washed" in milk/yoghurt etc..while the SGGS doesnt get this treatment.
The way the Palki Sahib is mobbed and carried..is similar to the Raths in which Hindu Idols ride/ or are transported..the "palkis/raths are also look alikes in every way...The Idols are bathed..the SGGS Rumallas are endlessly wiped/rubbed/cleaned agian and again...layer after layer..layer after layer...OUT of the 30 minutes we in malaysia get of this Daily Broadcast...hardly a MINUTE is for the actual reading of the HUKM..nothing about explaining the Hukm..etc. ( This si related only to  the Live TV broadcast). At night the harmandir is bathed in milk..( sewa exclusively to MALES ONLY)....similar to mandirs...

It is the Sad TRUTH that we pay LESS attention to the GYAAN in the GURU..and MORE attention to his rumallas/palkis/floors of the Gurdwaras...etc etc..thats why we give so much towards building marble gurdwaras, golden domes, golden palkis, marble palkis..and SO LITTLE to MISSIONARY efforts/Printing of Tracts/Pamphlets/Literature on Gurbani/Punjabi Schools/Gurbani Parchaar..etc etc etc. A "sant" collecting donations for a brand new Gurdwara..will get tons of money in no time...but an appeal for a Khalsa School..will get trickles of few dollars. This is the reason why our Gurdawars OVERFLOW (literally) with OLD RUMALLAHS ( Brand New ones actually and used just ONCE ). ..with no space to store them.and then  wehn SPACE runs OUT....these rumallahs are...AGAN BHET (BURNT) with Fanfare/langgar/ardass/and "religious fervour......BUT our Gurdwara LIBRARIES..are THREAD BARE...no books..no media..no computers..NOTHING !!
ALL these "rituals" cannot be dismissed or disguished...thats what they are and thats what we got to say they are..whether we like it or not


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## Tejwant Singh (Mar 24, 2009)

Gyani ji, 

Well said. One more thing to notice is that so many Akhand paaths are happening at the same time in different rooms paid by Sangat and there is  no one sitting down at listening to it nor does anyone go there to matha tek. People only matha tek inside Harmandir sahib and very few go upstairs to do the same where more Akhand Paaths are being held.

Regarding rumallahs, there is a big competition and political influence is required when someone wants to offer new Chandoa sahib and Rummalahs for the SGGS inside the Harmandir Sahib.

One more anecdote about idol worshipping in Sikhi. My brother in law came from  Delhi last year and told me something quite interesting. His father in law, a big shot in Delhi paid to change the warpping and the  Nishaan Sahib at Bangla Sahib which is also a very competitive ego trip for many Sikhs. Then the old wrappings with the Nishaan sahib are given to the family who has paid for the new ones. People cut that into small pieces and give to their loved ones. He brought a piece for me which I had to refuse to accept. I was stunned to see that how that little piece is revered by Sikhs.

So yes, it is sad to notice that rituals akin to idol worshipping have crept into Sikhi especially at those Gurdwaras where so much money is raked in.

Tejwant Singh


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## Tejwant Singh (Mar 24, 2009)

I  would like to share the following which I wrote  sometime ago but this is the updated version

*The Janeius We Wearby TEJWANT SINGH*


 Are some of us back to wearing _janeus_ (the Hindu sacred thread) that the child Guru Nanak had refused to don even at the tender age of seven?

By the look of the rituals performed everyday at Harmandar Sahib, for example, it seems that we are. In order to express my viewpoint, I would like to first share what I see Sikhi to be.

First and foremost, Sikhi is the only religion amongst the six world faiths that is not personality-based, but idea-based. Islam (Mohammed), Christianity (Jesus), Judaism ("Messiah in coming"), and Hinduism (Ram Chander ji, Krishan ji, and many other deities), all had their respective embodiments personified as having and proclaiming a direct link to the Almighty. The sixth, Buddhism, intrinsically revolves around Gautama Buddha. 
  If Sikhi was to be one more religion based on personalities, then Guru Granth Sahib would have only had the compositions of the Sikh Gurus, instead of the current formulation: the teachings of six Gurus and thirty-one saints from other religions, including Hinduism and Islam. And, our Gurus would have been worshipping each other, rather than _Ik Ong Kaar_, the One True God.  
  If Sikhi was based on personalities, then Harmandar Sahib  -  the most sacred shrine in Sikhi - would not have had four doors to welcome all mankind, nor would a Muslim have been asked to lay its foundation stone. If it was based on personalities, we would not have the _sangat_ and _pangat_ concept of breaking bread with everyone and anyone from any hue, creed or background, in the _Guru ka Langar_.

While growing up in Ferozepore, Punjab, my family and I used to visit Harmandar Sahib often, as it is only sixty miles away. During one of these journeys, I remember my mother, who we lovingly called Ammi ji, explaining to me the beautiful ritual of carrying Guru Granth Sahib from the Akal Takht to Harmandar Sahib in a huge and ornate _palki_ of gold. I was about ten then. She said that it is common knowledge that when people carry the palki for _prakash_ in the early hours of _amrit vela_, it is very heavy ... as if the Gurus were actually sitting in it; but when they bring it back empty, it is disproportionately lighter.

About ten years ago, I had the opportunity to visit Harmandar Sahib and participate in the same ritual by taking turns in offering my shoulder to carry the _Palki Sahib_ to and from the sanctum sanctorum every morning for a full week.  


The first bewildering realization was that no women were allowed to participate in this ritual; sadly, it remains true, even today. 


The event reminded me of Ammi ji's story from thirty years earlier. All of a sudden, I became very alert and was ready to observe the sudden loss of weight of the Palki Sahib, while carrying it back to the Akal Takht. I did not feel any difference in weight while carrying it empty. I did this for one week and felt the same. However, everyone I talked to who participated in the procession never ceased talking about feeling the sudden loss of weight, describing it with great reverence. 


I never understood why we Sikhs feel the need to take on this psychosomatic belief in order to believe in the existence of Ik Ong Kaar in a "physical" form.

I would like to expand this further through Gurbani.

_Ik Ong Kaar_ is neither a deity nor a "physical" embodiment, but Creative Energy, as explained beautifully by Guru Nanak in the _Mool Mantar_ that we recite several times a day. So, now the question arises, how shall a Sikh tap into that Creative Energy?

We read everyday in the _Japji_:

_Gaviaey suniaey munn rukhiaey bhao, dukh purhar sukh ghar lae jaey_("By singing, listening, contemplating and putting _gurmat_ in practice, we can find true happiness".)

We perform the first part very well when we know the words of the s_habad_ and start singing along with _raagis_. Unfortunately, we stop at the first one. We do not even contemplate what "_suniaey_" and "_munn rakhiaey bhao_" would bring us.  


This is where, our Gurus have indicated, dwells the nectar of Sikhi. The singing, in itself and without anything more, becomes a mere ritual, the same as cleaning off the non-existent dust from the inner sheets of the Guru Granth, washing the palki with milk and, last but not least, touching the _chaur_ to our foreheads every time we pretend to whisk a fly or two ... and the many other acts we perform daily so mechanically.

It is also worth noticing that at Harmandar Sahib, the most sacred shrine of the Sikh _panth_, not even a single female Sikh chants the _savaeaey_ that are recited everyday when Guru Granth Sahib's _prakash_ takes place. I have not seen an all-female _raagi jatha_ performing there either. I hope there are some. The ironic part is, that this beautiful hymn from _Asa di Vaar_ is recited every morning:

_So kion manda akhieay jin jamaey rajaan_
("How can we denigrate the very one who gives birth to kings?")  


And, no female Sikh is found anywhere among the _sevadaars_ or the _granthis_.

The whole essence of Sikhi is that it is based on ideas. We, in our everyday lives, play with ideas. The good ones we embrace and put into practice to make our lives better, the bad ones we discard. Guru Granth Sahib is our sacred book of Gurmat ideas that need to be put in practice through _rehat_. 

Gurmat challenges our thought processes, so that we can discard the rituals that contradict it, and embrace those that complement it.

So, in order for us to separate "_janeiu_" rituals from the meaningful ones, we have to try to understand and work with the tools bestowed upon us by our Gurus via _Gurbani_. Only by living up to these ideals can we tap into the heart and soul of Sikhi.


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 24, 2009)

Oh that wrappings of Nishan thing is based on this: When you pray, the prayer goes into materials around you. Since the wrappings are near the Gurudwara, they are constantly fed by prayer.
The idea is that you can leech that prayer off of those wrappings.

Now that makes we wonder, if that is assumed to be true, the wrappings have a limited amount of "prayer" in them. They will only help for a limited amount of time. Why not go for something that will last longer? Like the teachings of those "prayers". Teachings will last you a lifetime, and you can forward your teachings to future generations. A *much better* deal than a piece of cloth which can only be cut and be distrubuted so many times.

Why don't people see this though? I blame it on the fact that they haven't been taught critical thinking. 
Its ok to keep pointing out the problem but as long as you do it with a *solution*. My solution to these problems is teach CRITICAL THINKING, in schools. Make it a mandatory course. Research shows that when people are shown how to think critically, they eventually learn how to and are able to apply it to their everyday life.
There is alot of material on Critical thinking out there. We just need to distribute it, and make it available in people's native language. I have come across "Thought and Knowledge" by _Diane Halpern_ in my courses.


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## Astroboy (Mar 24, 2009)

Page 314, Line 2
ਸਭੁ ਕੀਤਾ ਤੇਰਾ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਸਭ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਣਤੈ ॥
सभु कीता तेरा वरतदा सभ तेरी बणतै ॥
Sabẖ kīṯā ṯerā varaṯḏā sabẖ ṯerī baṇṯai.
Everything happens according to Your Will; You created all.
Guru Ram Das   -  view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


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## Astroboy (Mar 24, 2009)

*

ਦੂਧੁ ਕਟੋਰੈ ਗਡਵੈ ਪਾਨੀ  ॥
दूधु कटोरै गडवै पानी ॥
Ḏūḏẖ katorai gadvai pānī.
A cup of milk and a jug of water is brought to family god,

* *ਕਪਲ ਗਾਇ ਨਾਮੈ ਦੁਹਿ ਆਨੀ  ॥੧॥
कपल गाइ नामै दुहि आनी ॥१॥
Kapal gā▫e nāmai ḏuhi ānī. ||1||
by Naam Dayv, after milking the brown cow. ||1||

* *ਦੂਧੁ ਪੀਉ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੇ ਰਾਇ  ॥
दूधु पीउ गोबिंदे राइ ॥
Ḏūḏẖ pī▫o gobinḏe rā▫e.
Please drink this milk, O my Sovereign Lord God.

* *ਦੂਧੁ ਪੀਉ ਮੇਰੋ ਮਨੁ ਪਤੀਆਇ  ॥
दूधु पीउ मेरो मनु पतीआइ ॥
Ḏūḏẖ pī▫o mero man paṯī▫ā▫e.
Drink this milk and my mind will be happy.

* *ਨਾਹੀ ਤ ਘਰ ਕੋ ਬਾਪੁ ਰਿਸਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ  ॥
नाही त घर को बापु रिसाइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Nāhī ṯa gẖar ko bāp risā▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Otherwise, my father will be angry with me."||1||Pause||

* *ਸਇਨ ਕਟੋਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭਰੀ  ॥
सोइन कटोरी अम्रित भरी ॥
So▫in katorī amriṯ bẖarī.
Taking the golden cup, Naam Dayv filled it with the ambrosial milk,

* *ਲੈ ਨਾਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਆਗੈ ਧਰੀ  ॥੨॥
लै नामै हरि आगै धरी ॥२॥
Lai nāmai har āgai ḏẖarī. ||2||
and placed it before the Lord. ||2||

* *ਏਕੁ ਭਗਤੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਬਸੈ  ॥
एकु भगतु मेरे हिरदे बसै ॥
Ėk bẖagaṯ mere hirḏe basai.
This one devotee abides within my heart,

* *ਨਾਮੇ ਦੇਖਿ ਨਰਾਇਨੁ ਹਸੈ  ॥੩॥
नामे देखि नराइनु हसै ॥३॥
Nāme ḏekẖ narā▫in hasai. ||3||
the Lord looked upon Naam Dayv and smiled. ||3||
*


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Mar 24, 2009)

Tejwant Ji,

One local Gurdwara had to increase the Nishan Sahibs to 13 so that everybody who wants to donate the covering can be accommodated- too many people wanted to buy the cloth covers....so we have 13 and we also increased the frequency per year...used to be only Vasakhi..now we have the change a few times on Gurpurabs......the local Punjabi School has a hard time and literally begs for donations every week....while peopele line up years in advance to change the nishan sahib cholas !!Jhooleteh Nishan Rahen Panth maharaj ke..but the "Children of the panth"..??? the Future of the Panth ?? can take care of themsleves..??? we have left the gurbani tuk..aakleen sahib seveah far back in the woods !!
Apart from the "bottled amrit" from the sarovars in India...some have come back from  Harmandar sahib with the mud dug out during kaar sewa....the mud was carefully portioned out and packed in small plastic bags..as "parshaad" !! This is miraculous stuff supposed to cure diseases like cancer...due to so much kirtan having been done in its presence....

Sikhi si becoming commercilised.....and the "new enterpreneurs" are having a field day..everyday new amrits/parshaads/etc are being promoted...instant cures...BUT Gurbani vichaar/paath by ones self/ etc is losing ground...every one wants instant gratification...sad


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## prabhsmart (Mar 24, 2009)

When u go in Gurudware and u see the Guru Granth sahibji, try to imagine Guru sitting there and when u r spirtually strong u will see one and the rest of snagat will not, only because u r looking at the Guru not a book. the pleasure and the peace u get at that time is more than any matterial pleasure u can ever get.


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## vsgrewal48895 (Mar 24, 2009)

Giani Ji & Tejwant Ji,

Well said and accepted the truth. In 2005 Manjit (My wife) went there to get Akhand Path and  requested if it could be done soon. they replied her "ਬੀਬੀ ਓਹ ਦੇਖ ਸ਼ੈਲਫ ਤੇ ਕੀਤੇ ਕਰਾਏ ਕਿਨੇ ਪਾਠ ਪਏ ਹਨ ਜਿਨੇ ਮਰਜੀ ਖਰੀਦ ਲੈ."
Thanks.

Virinder S. Grewal
Williamston, MI


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