# Is 'Divine/God/Akaal Purakh' and 'Jot' the same thing?



## Logical Sikh (Nov 22, 2018)

If not, what is the difference between these terms ?


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## Sikhilove (Nov 23, 2018)

Yes They're the same, all God


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## sukhsingh (Nov 23, 2018)

Sikhilove said:


> Yes They're the same, all God


No I would absolutely disagree.. 

Can you please provide a definition of each first before concluding that they are the same thing .. 

I have a real problem when 'we' oversimplify such important terms..?


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## Logical Sikh (Nov 23, 2018)

If, in the following verse, "JOT" means GOD, 
And "MOOL" means VALUE... 
Then what is the value of our mind/GOD/light of GOD ? How do we know ? How do we recoganize it ?

ਮਨ ਤੂੰ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪੁ ਹੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਪਛਾਣੁ ॥   ਮਨ ਹਰਿ ਜੀ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਲਿ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਰੰਗੁ ਮਾਣੁ ॥

Man ṯūŉ joṯ sarūp hai āpṇā mūl pacẖẖāṇ.   Man har jī ṯerai nāl hai gurmaṯī rang māṇ.


_My (*man*) mind, (*too-n*) you are (*saroop-u*) the embodiment of (*jot-i = light*) the Supreme Spirit; (*pachhaan-u*) recognise (*aapna = own*) your (*mool-u = roots*) origin – the Almighty._

_(*Har-i ji*) the revered Almighty is (*naal-i*) with (*t-erai*) you, recognise that (*gurmati*) with the guru’s guidance and (*maan-u*) enjoy (*rang-u*) the pleasure of IT’s presence within._



ਮੂਲੁ ਪਛਾਣਹਿ ਤਾਂ ਸਹੁ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਮਰਣ ਜੀਵਣ ਕੀ ਸੋਝੀ ਹੋਈ ॥   ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਤਾਂ ਦੂਜਾ ਭਾਉ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥

Mūl pacẖẖāṇėh ṯāŉ saho jāṇėh maraṇ jīvaṇ kī sojẖī ho▫ī.   Gur parsādī eko jāṇėh ṯāŉ ḏūjā bẖā▫o na ho▫ī.


_If you (*pachhaaneh*) recognise that the Creator is your (*mool-u*) origin, (*ta*) then you will (*jaaneh = know*) learn about (*sahu*) the Master – IT’s virtues and commands, by which you (*sojhi hoi*) will understand (*maran*) death and (*jeevan*) life i.e. death is forgetting the Master and keeping succumbing to vices, while life is remembering the Master and overcoming the vices, resulting in being accepted for union with the Master._

_(*Gur parsaadi*) with the guru’s grace/guidance, you will (*jaaneh*) know that there is (*eko*) only One Master and will (*na hoi*) not (*bhaau = love*) think of (*dooja = second*) another i.e. you will not look to any one else._



ਮਨਿ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਆਈ ਵਜੀ ਵਧਾਈ ਤਾ ਹੋਆ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥   ਇਉ ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਮਨ ਤੂੰ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪੁ ਹੈ ਅਪਣਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਪਛਾਣੁ ॥੫॥

Man sāŉṯ ā▫ī vajī vaḏẖā▫ī ṯā ho▫ā parvāṇ.   I▫o kahai Nānak man ṯūŉ joṯ sarūp hai apṇā mūl pacẖẖāṇ. ||5||


_One who places the self in the care of the Almighty (*saant-i aai*) experiences peace (*man-i*) in the mind and (*vaji vadhaai = is congratulated*) feels happy; (*ta = then*) this is how one (*hoaa*) is (*parvaan-u*) accepted for union._

_(*Io*) thus says the third Nanak: My mind you are the embodiment of the Supreme soul – the Almighty, and should recognise your origin. 5._


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## Harry Haller (Nov 24, 2018)

You had better answer him if you value your kitchen cabinets...


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## Logical Sikh (Nov 24, 2018)

Harry Haller said:


> You had better answer him if you value your kitchen cabinets...


Its better to have Gurbani on them instead photos of some sadhus whom people call them Gurus, literally "matha tek" on them everyday, saying we are in our guru's feet..... At least If we have Gurbani on those places, maybe they will read it some day, contemplate on it, and some day it will change their mind....
Maybe they'll start questioning Sikh authorities why didn't you tell us abt this before.
Maybe they'll start realizing that the guy speaking on MANJI SAHIB's ( inside golden temple complex from where most of the sikhs in punjab have their daily dosage of KATHA through live telecasting ) stage is saying something that is not gurbani...
Maybe they'll start questioning the Govt. Why is there dirt on the road, why are women not safe in this country, why are there no jobs in punjab, why the water is soo polluted..... Cuz currently people here have thinking that "just do matha tek and do Ardass and Guru Sahib will do Kirpa..... " While Guru sahib would never sit down like that.....


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## Harry Haller (Nov 24, 2018)

Logical Sikh said:


> Cuz currently people here have thinking that "just do matha tek and do Ardass and Guru Sahib will do Kirpa..... " While Guru sahib would never sit down like that.....



the irony is that I am in full agreement with you, completely, everything you say, everything you think, I also think the same, the difference is I respect anyone's right to do anything they wish, if someone really believed that doing Ardass and matha tek will solve everything, good luck to them, it is not for me, or for you to correct them, that is their right, as soon as you rubbish that, in my mind you are a fascist.

Oh I don't have kitchen cabinets, hell, I don't even have a kitchen!


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## Logical Sikh (Nov 24, 2018)

Harry Haller said:


> the irony is that I am in full agreement with you, completely, everything you say, everything you think, I also think the same, the difference is I respect anyone's right to do anything they wish, if someone really believed that doing Ardass and matha tek will solve everything, good luck to them, it is not for me, or for you to correct them, that is their right, as soon as you rubbish that, in my mind you are a fascist.
> Oh I don't have kitchen cabinets, hell, I don't even have a kitchen!


But Punjab is the representation of sikhi..... They are Representing Sikhi.... i dont know what you THink abt punjab like "How much Learner the Punjabi sikhs are" etc. But 80% of sikhs here NEVER READ BANI.... i mean they do read but they dont have any interpretation.... they never felt that there is a concept like "CONTEMPLATING on GURBANI"... I agree With @Inderjeet Kaur Ji that Different people  have their different interpretation...... But Here in Punjab Most of 'em Do Not Have Any Interpretation... WHat do you do in that situation....  I Recently had Chicken Pox.... But My family forced me to Go in a "Hindu Temple" and Do Matha Tek on "KAALI MATA" and have some mantras from PANDIT there, because they think that is the only treatment of Chicken Pox.... and im talking abt My Parents who are AMRITDHAARI.... How do you see this situation..... ? Don't you think there is a need to teach something to these people ?


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## Harry Haller (Nov 24, 2018)

Logical Sikh said:


> But Punjab is the representation of sikhi..... They are Representing Sikhi.... i dont know what you THink abt punjab like "How much Learner the Punjabi sikhs are" etc. But 80% of sikhs here NEVER READ BANI.... i mean they do read but they dont have any interpretation.... they never felt that there is a concept like "CONTEMPLATING on GURBANI"... I agree With @Inderjeet Kaur Ji that Different people  have their different interpretation...... But Here in Punjab Most of 'em Do Not Have Any Interpretation... WHat do you do in that situation....  I Recently had Chicken Pox.... But My family forced me to Go in a "Hindu Temple" and Do Matha Tek on "KAALI MATA" and have some mantras from PANDIT there, because they think that is the only treatment of Chicken Pox.... and im talking abt My Parents who are AMRITDHAARI.... How do you see this situation..... ? Don't you think there is a need to teach something to these people ?



Well, I don't think Punjab is the representation of Sikhi at all, when the massacre occurred in the Wisconsin, US, I do recall the SPGC preparing to fly out, only to be told by the US Sikhs not to bother, as they had nothing to bring to the party, if anything, these rituals and misunderstandings emanate from the Punjab, whilst the rest of the world asks questions and changes tack with what you and I believe in. Sikhism is worldwide, and not limited to brown folk doing Bhangra. 

Is there a need to teach these people? I don't think you can, they are too ingrained in Babas and ritualistic superstition, I think its best just to wait till they leave this world and let the youth, the people like yourself refine understanding.


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## Sikhilove (Nov 26, 2018)

sukhsingh said:


> No I would absolutely disagree..
> 
> Can you please provide a definition of each first before concluding that they are the same thing ..
> 
> I have a real problem when 'we' oversimplify such important terms..?



It is simple

Truth is One. One Truth, One light, One Akal Purakh. Why complicate things


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## sukhsingh (Nov 26, 2018)

Sikhilove said:


> It is simple
> 
> Truth is One. One Truth, One light, One Akal Purakh. Why complicate things


No it is not simple ... If all the words mean the same thing then why have different words


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## Harry Haller (Nov 27, 2018)

sukhsingh said:


> No it is not simple ... If all the words mean the same thing then why have different words


look she is right, its really simple, the whole concept of Sikhism can be explained by the video below


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## Admin (Nov 27, 2018)

Video is not working... 



Harry Haller said:


> look she is right, its really simple, the whole concept of Sikhism can be explained by the video below


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## Ishna (Nov 27, 2018)

Works for me and it's hilarious.


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## sukhsingh (Nov 27, 2018)

Love it ! Hits the nail on the head!


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## Sikhilove (Nov 28, 2018)

Harry Haller said:


> look she is right, its really simple, the whole concept of Sikhism can be explained by the video below



Couldn't watch the video, but if you read Gurbani, in fact the first few lines, you would get it.

Ah I just watched it. How does that hit the nail on the head?

The entire Gurbani is a projection of Mool Mantar. Creation stemmed from Nothingness. One in All and All in One.

If that too simple for you then by all means complicate away.

There is no image, there's no caste, creed, colour, differences. We are One- we're Truth


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## Logical Sikh (Nov 28, 2018)

So is "JOT" and "Akaal Purakh" the same ? what is the conclusion ?


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## Ishna (Nov 29, 2018)

Yes, see Sohila.


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## Harry Haller (Nov 30, 2018)

Logical Sikh said:


> So is "JOT" and "Akaal Purakh" the same ? what is the conclusion ?



Kitchen Cabinet doors to standby!


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## Harry Haller (Nov 30, 2018)

Sikhilove said:


> Ah I just watched it. How does that hit the nail on the head?



it hits the nail on the head because most are more concerned with the visual facets of Sikhism than the internal


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## Sikhilove (Dec 3, 2018)

Harry Haller said:


> it hits the nail on the head because most are more concerned with the visual facets of Sikhism than the internal




And I said that Truth has no color, form, no image. Who cares about external appearences, they don't mean shite.


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## Harry Haller (Dec 3, 2018)

Sikhilove said:


> And I said that Truth has no color, form, no image. Who cares about external appearences, they don't mean shite.



maybe not to you and me, but we are not the majority


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## Sikhilove (Dec 4, 2018)

Harry Haller said:


> maybe not to you and me, but we are not the majority



True. Society is quite image obsessed in general.


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## swarn bains (Feb 22, 2019)

yes they are same


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## Inderjeet Kaur (Feb 23, 2019)

How deep do you want to go? I have read that the entire spacetime continuum can be summed up as the first symbol in the Mool Mantar. 
I'm not deep enough to know whether it is true or not. If it is true, it simplifies things immensely. 

But _sigh_ I am still just a fool. what do I know?


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## sukhsingh (Feb 23, 2019)

Sikhilove said:


> And I said that Truth has no color, form, no image. Who cares about external appearences, they don't mean shite.


Actually you didn't say that.. 
People do care about external appearances. Even those amongst us who are the most liberal and non-discriminatory care.. 
I'm sure we all believe and strive for equality and non-judgemental eyes but we don't.. To have done that it would mean we have lost our ego.. And I'm pretty sure that whilst we all strive for that none of us have achieved it..


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