# Gurbani Contemplation - Selok Bhagat Kabir Ji



## Astroboy

*Dear Members,  I just enrolled myself as a student of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Academy Malaysia and hope to present the syllabus online so that anyone else can also be a cyber student, along with me. **The classes are held in KL and Seremban on Sundays for 90 minutes and these two books are the first semester syllabus. So feel free to direct anyone who has the yeaning to attend such courses, to join us online here in SPN. We have Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji (online) to assist us to further the discussion and answer your queries. There is no fees charged, it's free. You may donate any sum to SPN according to your sharda. 

~ namjap~  a.k.a. Santokh Singh (Seremban)*


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Guru Piayare Sardar Santokh Singh Jio (naam japp),
GURFATEH.

Congratulations on this step in your life...Hope that Guru Ji's Grace/Kirpa showers you.
Others who would like to know more may not be aware that that this Gurmatt Academy that Veer Ji just joined for Gurbani Classes also has a WEB PRESENCE...   Here is the address -         Home.
MY advice......  click..on the web address given......and embark on a spiritual journey you will not regret..the SGGS truly is an ocean that fulfills ALL desires...
God Speed....

:happy:


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## Astroboy

Since the ebooks are already available online. 

We can just extract those passages for discussion.

This is what I mean : Publications | Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy Malaysia - Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy Malaysia


*"Branding Help us spread the word of the website as far as possible. We want people to visit this website to download katha, Bania and everything else this site has to offer - and remember, it's all free to the sangat. This is one of our ways of spreading the message of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji."  -  SGGSAM *


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## spnadmin

They did an EXCELLENT job organizing the materials on the web site. And very clear and attractive. I will read it.


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## Astroboy

A Brief Introduction on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy Malaysia

*Link:* Home

Gurbani Contemplations - Selok Kabir Ji is one of the three books a student like me has to go through (reading, followed by discussions). This ebook is available online (for free) and anyone wishing to join our SPN discussion here may do so by involving themselves.

Since I am actually attending a class physically, the instructions and reading homework will also apply online at the same time period. The classes are held on Sundays for about 90 minutes which include reading of :-

*First Pothi of SGGS, 
Bhagats of SGGS and 
Selok Bhagat Kabir Ji. *
*See Link:* Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Course
This is basically the first semester learning syllabus.  

Since we have just started on the second week now of the first semester,
 it would be good to direct as many people to SPN so that they can benefit from this 
FREE ONLINE COURSE by becoming SPN sangat immediately.
You are free to donate to SPN any sum according to your sharda.

Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji Arshi (well-known Gyani Ji amongst the Sikh Sangat in 
Kuala Lumpur) will assist us here in SPN to further the discussion and answer any queries.

*Instructions and Homework* (for immediate discussion)

*Read 20 Selok from Page 1 to 12 from *
*this link :* Gurbani Contemplation - Selok Bhagat Kabirji | Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy Malaysia - 
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy Malaysia

*Homework for the second Book - Bhagat's of SGGS, refer to this thread :*
l#*26* (*permalink*)


Student,
Santokh Singh, Seremban, Malaysia.


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## Astroboy

*Re: Bhagats of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji*

I have a question which bothers me. Please read the whole of page 17 of this link :
and tell me if this is Gurmat or a fairy tale. Particularly about 110 lifetimes.

Bhagats of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji | Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy Malaysia - Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy Malaysia


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## spnadmin

*Re: Bhagats of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji*

NamJap ji

Some are going to dismiss this as a fairy-tale and argue that children should be protected from stories like this. Others will contemplate the story and get to the core idea. 

It is a parable and it does not matter whether it is historically true or false. The message is True. So my reaction is to ask: What is the message? I am still pondering this question. 

The story is very beautiful and emotionally stunning. My heart is not as pure at the heart of Bhagat Dhanna ji. The pure are often those with the most unsophisticated vichaar. They go straight to the heart of truth. Remember that "the inner knower of hearts" in several of these sakhi is a luminous child -- "A little child shall lead you..." Forgive me.


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## Astroboy

*Re: Bhagats of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji*



> Particularly about 110 lifetimes.



The reason I brought this up is because last night I read Selok Bhagat Kabir Ji as follows:-
ਕਬੀਰ  ਮਾਨਸ  ਜਨਮੁ  ਦੁਲੰਭੁ  ਹੈ  ਹੋਇ  ਨ  ਬਾਰੈ  ਬਾਰ  ॥ 
कबीर मानस जनमु दुल्मभु है होइ न बारै बार ॥ 
Kabīr mānas janam ḏulambẖ hai ho▫e na bārai bār. 
Kabeer, it is so difficult to obtain this human body; it does not just come over and over again. 

ਜਿਉ  ਬਨ  ਫਲ  ਪਾਕੇ  ਭੁਇ  ਗਿਰਹਿ  ਬਹੁਰਿ  ਨ  ਲਾਗਹਿ  ਡਾਰ  ॥੩੦॥ 
जिउ बन फल पाके भुइ गिरहि बहुरि न लागहि डार ॥३०॥ 
Ji▫o ban fal pāke bẖu▫e girėh bahur na lāgėh dār. ||30|| 
It is like the ripe fruit on the tree; when it falls to the ground, it cannot be re-attached to the branch. ||30||


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## spnadmin

*Re: Bhagats of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji*



namjap said:


> The reason I brought this up is because last night I read Selok Bhagat Kabir Ji as follows:-
> ਕਬੀਰ  ਮਾਨਸ  ਜਨਮੁ  ਦੁਲੰਭੁ  ਹੈ  ਹੋਇ  ਨ  ਬਾਰੈ  ਬਾਰ  ॥
> कबीर मानस जनमु दुल्मभु है होइ न बारै बार ॥
> Kabīr mānas janam ḏulambẖ hai ho▫e na bārai bār.
> Kabeer, it is so difficult to obtain this human body; it does not just come over and over again.
> 
> ਜਿਉ  ਬਨ  ਫਲ  ਪਾਕੇ  ਭੁਇ  ਗਿਰਹਿ  ਬਹੁਰਿ  ਨ  ਲਾਗਹਿ  ਡਾਰ  ॥੩੦॥
> जिउ बन फल पाके भुइ गिरहि बहुरि न लागहि डार ॥३०॥
> Ji▫o ban fal pāke bẖu▫e girėh bahur na lāgėh dār. ||30||
> It is like the ripe fruit on the tree; when it falls to the ground, it cannot be re-attached to the branch. ||30||



NamJap ji

My understanding of this vaak.  It is always urgent and crucial to detach ourselves from all that is negative and instead, make amends and seek Sat Sang with Sadhsanghatth. We have only one chance to obtain mukhti, with God's grace. If we stray from dharma and neglect dhyanna and remembrance of the Name of the Divine, we may never have another opportunity.  

Forgive me if I misunderstand the direction of your comments. 110 lifetimes signifies that in all those lifetimes Dhanna had always been sincere in his faith and had now in this one, the one of simplest faith, attained the greatest state. Complete surrender in love and submission to Waheguru. He never wavered, never left the path of devotion, never strayed in doubt. Not in a single lifetime.


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## spnadmin

*Re: Bhagats of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji*

The saloka by Kabir and the story of Dhanna actually are intertwined. Kabir ji: Do not stray even once! Dhanna: The story of one who never strayed.


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## Astroboy

Wow! Thank you for your insight Aad Ji. It has helped me to focus correctly now.


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## Astroboy

It's the state of mind I was in. Earlier I chose to be confused. But after your answer, I chose (altered my own state of mind) to see with clarity and your answer made me do that.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

As usual ( must be Guru Jis Kirpa....nothing less ) Antonia Ji has managed to grasp the gust of wind....
YES this is definitely two sides of the same coin....Kabir Ji says "DONT",,and Dhanana Ji says..I DIDNT.

2. On whether such stories/fables should or shouldnt be.... I always try and discover everything inside GURBANI itself. We need to focus and firmly beleive that any "question" asked in Gurbani..will definitley be ANSWERED in Gurbani...it may occur 500 pannahs later...it may be right at the end...BUT its THERE all right. We dont need any extraneous stories to explain the Message. The danger in such is that stories being of "entertainment" value...leave a lasting impression in childish minds...there is a danger that the mind may then demand more stories in order to stay "interested".
3. Just listen to a one hour of katha by...Prof Gurbachan Singh Bangkok walleh..it will be solid one hour of GURBANI ....exposition...relevance...linking shabads from all over Gurbani... just listen to say Ragi attached to any Sant matt tradtion'Taksaal etc....and it will be 55 minutes of stories..sayings/quotes of this Baba ji/that mahapurash Ji..and maybe if we are lucky he may have a single line of GURBANI of about 5 minutes ( that also just singing the shabad - incomplete one). 
There is a saying..a Female Goat gives MILK...but most frequently will somehow or other manage to put MEENGGANNAH into it. Imho i regard sich stories as meenggnnah in MILK of Gurbani related expositions/expalnations. Thus my students get ONLY Gurbani and NO STORIES.
5. In the above example....my students will ask...How did Dhanna Ji KNOW about his past lives ?? Did Kabir also know..did Guru nanak ji also know..Have all of them also written about it..why didnt Kabir Ji tell us about His Previous lives...does any Sant baba Mahapurash brahmgiani LIVING TODAY KNOW about his past life/lives ?? On Kabir Ji there is No problem...because the Sikh GURU Sahib also says the EXACT SAME THING...Gobind millan ke eh teri barreah..THIS IS THE ONLY chance to meet your Gobind !!..not once but thousands of times.....

5. On the sandalwood....the Sikh GURU SAHIB...SATGUR is PARAS... Paras is the mythical stone that by its touch turns substances into GOLD. But NO "PARAS" can turn another stone INTO a another PARAS...just *GOLD* only.... The SATGUR is a PARAS that makes others into PARAS...!!!! An ordinary  factory produces "goods".....the Sikh Satgur Factory produces other FACTORIES !!! Other Factories also produce "waste products"....the SATGUR Factory produces NO WASTE....that is the Beauty of GURBANI in the Satgur SGGS...it  is the PARAS that has the ABILITY to make US ordinary humans into PARAS...

Pardon me if i hurt anyones feelings...no offense meant or taken as always...


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## Astroboy

> On the sandalwood....the Sikh Guru SAHIB...SATGUR is PARAS... Paras is the mythical stone that by its touch turns substances into GOLD. But NO "PARAS" can turn another stone INTO a another PARAS...just *GOLD* only.... The SATGUR is a PARAS that makes others into PARAS...!!!! An ordinary  factory produces "goods".....the Sikh Satgur Factory produces other FACTORIES !!! Other Factories also produce "waste products"....the SATGUR Factory produces NO WASTE....that is the Beauty of GURBANI in the Satgur Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...it  is the PARAS that has the ABILITY to make US ordinary humans into PARAS...


Gyani Ji,

the following shabad confirms your understanding about paras.

Page 911, Line 1
*ਪਾਰਸ ਪਰਸੇ ਫਿਰਿ ਪਾਰਸੁ ਹੋਏ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਅਪਣੀ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰੀ ॥੨॥*
 पारस परसे फिरि पारसु होए हरि जीउ अपणी किरपा धारी ॥२॥
 Pāras p{censored} fir pāras ho▫e har jī▫o apṇī kirpā ḏẖārī. ||2||
 Touching the philosopher's stone, they themselves become the philosopher's stone; the Dear Lord Himself blesses them with His Mercy. ||2||
*Guru Amar Das*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Naam Jappji..
Exactly jio.
Only the Satgur is the real Paras....that has this ability to make us into Paras.

Elsewhere Gurbani also declares..
 'Chandan Kai Niktey Basey Baans  Sugandh Na Hoi." which means, 'Near the _Sandalwood_ tree dwells the  _Bamboo_ tree, BUT NEVER attains any scent !!!
Here is a scholarly article i read on the net on Sandalwood..Chandan and how its mentioned in Gurbani to teach various lessons...
CHANDAN - SANDLEWOOD*CHANDAN - SANDALWOOD* Associating with the sandalwood tree, the tree nearby is  changed; 
that tree begins to smell just like the  sandalwood tree. Coming into 
contact with the  philosophers’ stone, copper is transformed; that
copper is transformed into gold. In the  Company of Spiritual Being,
Kabeer is transformed; that Kabeer is transformed into God (sggs 1158). 
<><><><>
 Spiritually Wise (_Giaanee_) assert that simple faith can be broken, but  if it is strengthened by real understanding, then it can never be shaken or  lost. In order to build up our faith in the principles and the Divine Teachings  of the Gurbani (Sri Guru Granth Sahib, SGGS), practical and intriguing examples  have been used throughout the Gurbani. In the ultimate issue these principles  and teachings are common sense and self apparent to the Spiritually Wise  (_Gurmukhs_ or divine beings). However, it's not so in the case of the  unthoughtful person (_Manmukh_: material or demoniac being). And the  principles behind the examples and stories do seem to soak in; resulting in  strengthening of our understanding upon which we can build an unshakable faith.  
The example of _Chandan_ (sandalwood) has been repeatedly used in the  Gurbani. Perhaps many know that, ordinarily, sandalwood has the most divine  fragrance. This fragrant nature of the sandalwood is symbolic of the of the Self  ("_Joti-Svaroopa_"), which is within the body as the Infinite Bliss  (_Anand_). As the fragrance is within the sandalwood, similarly, the  Supreme Being is the inner essence of all, animate and inanimate. It may not be  known to many that the same sandalwood can also emit a very obnoxious odor when  left submerged in water! This is symbolic of man's submergence in the  worldliness. This Gurbani Reflection will attempt to reflect at it's both  aspects as well as their significance.  
Sandalwood - Fragrance 
The value of sandalwood lies in its lovely fragrance. This aspect of the  sandalwood represents the divine qualities found in godly people or  _Gurmukhs_. The smell of sandalwood is so sublime that its fragrance  spreads out far and wide. As a result, the lowly trees growing near sandalwood  also become just like it. Thus, whatever comes into contact with the sandalwood  is uplifted. For example, when the soothing fragrance emanating from the  sandalwood tree attaches to the other ordinary trees of the forest, they also  begin to smell just as the sandalwood. In addition to sandalwood's aroma, it's  also considered an Ayurvedic medicinal herb. 


Bhaar athaarah mahi chandan ootam chnadan nikat sabh  chandan hooyiyaa. Saakat koore oobh sikk hooye mann abhimaan vichhur doo  gayeeyaa: Of all plants, the sandalwood tree is the most sublime.  Everything near the sandalwood tree becomes fragrant like sandalwood. The  stubborn, false faithless cynics are dried up; their egotistical pride separates  them far from the Lord (sggs 834).
Melaagar sangen nimm birakh si chandnah: The  lowly Nimm tree, growing near the sandalwood tree, becomes just like the  sandalwood tree (sggs 1360).
Gurmukh jaayi lahahu ghar apnaa ghas chandan har jas  ghaseeyai: As Gurmukh, go and enter within your own home (Self); anoint  yourself with the sandalwood oil of the Lord’s Praises (sggs 170).
The  scriptures compare the Nature as well as the Association of _Sat_ (Truth)  with that of the sandalwood. As indicated in the scriptures, by remaining in the  Company of _Sat_ (Truth) within and without, a lowly conditioned being is  transformed into Divine Consciousness!  

Mil sat sangat param pad paayaa mai hirad plaas sang  hari buheeyaa: Joining the _Sat_ (Truth), I have obtained the  supreme status. I am just a castor-oiltree, made fragrant by their  association (sggs 834).
The function of an ax is to cut and destroy.  However, the blade of an ax that cuts the Sandalwood also becomes fragrant!  Similarly, if someone hurts or inflicts miseries unto godly beings, they show  compassion toward that person just as the sandalwood imparts fragrance to the ax  that cuts it!  

Kabeer sant na chhadai santayee jayu kotic milai asant.  Maliaagar bhuyangam bedhiyo ta seetaltaa na tajant: Kabeer, the saintly  being does not forsake his saintly nature, even though he meets with millions of  evil-doers. Even when sandalwood is surrounded by snakes, it does not give up  its cooling fragrance (sggs 1373).
Kabeer chanadan ka birvaa bhalaa beriyo dhaak plaas. Oyi  bhee chandan hoyi rahe base ju chnadan paas: Kabeer, the sandalwood tree  is good, even though it is surrounded by weeds. Those who dwell near the  sandalwood tree, become just like the sandalwood tree (sggs 1365).
It  is said that the sandalwood trees remain encircled by the poisonous snakes!  However, the sandalwood does not change its nature —  it does not become  poisonous like the sankes. To the contrary, it accommodates and tolerates the  poison and remains fragrant at the same time!  

Mailaagar bereh hai bhuyiangaa. Bikh amrit basahi ik  sangaa: The snakes encircle the sandalwood trees. Poison and nectar dwell  there together (sggs 525).
In some scriptures, God and His Name is  likened to the sandalwood. As the sandalwood is cooling and soothing, so is the  Divine Name. The Gurbani asks us for becoming scented with the perfume of this  Name. Its fragrance spreads gloriously far and wide. Whosoever sit close to  those imbued in It also get uplifted; just as the bitter _Nimm_ tree  growing near the sandalwood tree becomes permeated with the fragrance of the  sandalwood.  

Sarbe aad param laad kaasat chandan bhayilaa. Tumche  paaras hamche lohaa sange kanchan bhaiyilaa: God, the Primal Source of  everything, is like the sandalwood tree; He transforms us woody trees into  fragrant sandalwood. You, O Pure Being, are the Philosopher’s Stone, and I am  iron; associating with You, I am transformed into gold (sggs 1351).
Har har naam seetal jal dhiyavahu har chandan vaas  sugandh gandhayeeyaa: Meditate on the cool water of the God's Name.  Perfume yourself with the fragrant scent of God, the sandalwood tree (sggs  833-834).
Nal kavi paaras paras kach kanchanaa huyi chandanaa  subaas jaas simrat an taro: So speaks Nall the poet: touching the  Philosopher’s Stone, glass is transformed into gold, and the sandalwood tree  imparts its fragrance to other trees; similarly, meditating on God, I am  transformed (sggs 1398).
Taa te sangat saghan bhaayi bhayu maanahi tum maliyaagar  pragat subaas. Dhroo Prahlaad Kabeer Tilochan naam lat upjo ju pargaas:  And so, the entire Sangat loves, fears and respects You, O God. You are the  sandalwood tree; Your fragrance spreads gloriously far and wide. Dhroo,  Prahlaad, Kabeer and Trilochan chanted the Name of the Lord, and His  Illumination radiantly shines forth (sggs 1406).
Mental delusion is  caused by egotistical pride. _Manmukhs_ (material beings) think that they  control the material nature and thus feel puffed up in self-conceit. As a  result, such conditioned beings commit mistakes and get in trouble. The first  requirement for surrendering unto God is that one should be free from pride.  Therefore, one with egotistical pride cannot even begin devotion  (_Bhagti_); let alone Self-realization! A person diseased by the false  pride is compared with the bamboo tree. To the contrary, God's humble beings  (_Gurmukhs_) are compared with the sandalwood tree. In nutshell, the  sandalwood should remind us of our "_Joti-Svaroopa_", and that we are to  constantly remember God's Name. 

Nikat basanto baanso Nanak ahambudh na bohte: But  the bamboo tree, also growing near it, does not pick up its fragrance; it is too  tall and proud (sggs 1360).
Kabeer baans badaayee boodiyaa iyu mat boodo koyi.  Chanadan kai nikte basai baans sugandh na hoyi: Kabeer, the bamboo is  drowned in its egotistical pride. No one should drown like this. Bamboo also  dwells near the sandalwood tree, but it does not take up its fragrance (sggs  1365).
Sandalwood's Obnoxious Odor  If sandalwood is kept immersed in water for some time, it will start  emanating an obnoxious odor from the rotting wood. Thus, even though the  sandalwood has very cooling and soothing fragrance, but when it remains in water  for a long time it becomes conditioned and loses its divine fragrance and starts  stinking. This aspect of the sandalwood represents _Manmukh_'s (demoniac  being) conditioned consciousness or evil-mindedness.  
However, if the stinking sandalwood is removed from the water and rubbed  against a stone, the beautiful fragrance slowly merges back. Now, let's try to  reflect on the Spiritual significance of stinking "odor" and the "rubbing"  against a stone.  
The Gurbani declares that the _Jeeva_ (unenlightened being) is made in  the true Image of God (_Joti-Svaroop_). However, when this Pure Self is  confounded with the body, senses, mind, and intellect, the stinking odor of  _Vaasnaa_ (latent tendencies) comes out at that time. And this rotten smell  is none other than man's lust, anger, greed, delusion, self-conceit, stubborn  mindedness, and enviousness (and their numerous variations). As a result, all  divine qualities — truth, contentment, Self-knowledge (_Aatam-Giyan)_,  compassion, love, and so on — disappear from the heart.  
Fly is attracted to filth. Hence the fly does not like to sit on fragrant  sandalwood. Instead, it prefers to sit on stinking wood. Similarly, the man's  deluded mind enjoys "sitting" on evil instincts and pleasure seeking, as well as  brooding over worldly entanglements.  


Maakhee chnadan parharai jah bigandh tah jaayi:  Kabeer, the sinner does not like God's devotion; he does not appreciate worship.  The fly abandons the sandalwood tree, and goes after the rotten smell (sggs  1369).
In order to rediscover the Original Nature of the Self , we need  to "rub"  the Divine Name (_Shabad-Awareness_ or Spiritual Wisdom) on the  stone of our deluded mind (ego-sense or _Haume_, ignorance, impurities,  Maya, etc.). By this "rubbing", the filth (_Malla_) and stinking odor of  the ignorance born ego-sense will go away, and then one's True Nature — Blissful  Conscious Existence — will spontaneously shine forth.  

Teraa Naam karee charnaatheeyaa je mann ursaa hoyi.  Karnee kungoo je ralai ghat antar poojaa hoyi: I would make Your Name the  sandalwood, and my mind the stone to rub it on. For saffron, I would offer good  deeds; thus, I perform worship and adoration within my heart (sggs  489).
The Pure Awareness is compared with the sandalwood encircled by  the deadly snakes of evil passions. In order to get to the sandalwood of  Divinity, one has to face these poisonous snakes. How can one strike them out?  By drawing the Mighty Sword of the Spiritual Wisdom; says the Gurbani. The  _Shabad-Giaan_ (divine knowledge contained in the Gurbani) is the Mighty  Sword of Spiritual Wisdom that can kill the deadly snakes of evil instincts.  

Chandan vaas bhuyiangam veree kiv miliyai chandan  leejai. Kaadh kharag gur giyan karaaraa bikh chhed chhed ras peejai: The  fragrant sandalwood tree is encircled by snakes; how can anyone get to the  sandalwood? Drawing out the Mighty Sword of the Guru’s Spiritual Wisdom, I  slaughter and kill the poisonous snakes, and drink in the Sweet Nectar (sggs  1324).
Balto jalto tayukiyo gur chandan seetlaayiyo. Agiyan  andheraa mit gayaa gur giyan deepaayo:  I was burning, on fire, and the  Guru poured water on me; He is cooling and soothing, like the sandalwood tree.  The darkness of ignorance has been dispelled; the Guru has lit the lamp of  Spiritual Wisdom (sggs 241).
The important thing to remember here is  that by rubbing the stinking sandalwood against a stone, we do not give anew  fragrance to the sandalwood; for the fragrance is always present within it! Due  to its conditioning or contamination caused by its coming into the contact with  the water, the fragrance was veiled; hence not available. That's all! Similarly,  the True Nature of the Self (Truth-Knowledge-Bliss) is always present within;  therefore, it is not something to be gained afresh. Once the veil of ignorance  (ego or _Haume_) is removed by the _Shabad-Giaan_, it naturally shines  forth. That's all!  — T. Singh
Sikhism: Reflections On Gurbani


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਡਗਮਗ  ਕਿਆ  ਕਰਹਿ  ਕਹਾ  ਡੁਲਾਵਹਿ  ਜੀਉ  ॥ 
कबीर डगमग किआ करहि कहा डुलावहि जीउ ॥ 
Kabīr dagmag ki▫ā karahi kahā dulāvėh jī▫o. 
Kabeer, why do you stumble? Why does your soul waver? 

ਸਰਬ  ਸੂਖ  ਕੋ  ਨਾਇਕੋ  ਰਾਮ  ਨਾਮ  ਰਸੁ  ਪੀਉ  ॥੩॥ 
सरब सूख को नाइको राम नाम रसु पीउ ॥३॥ 
Sarab sūkẖ ko nā▫iko rām nām ras pī▫o. ||3|| 
He is the Lord of all comforts and peace; drink in the Sublime Essence of the Lord's Name. ||3|| 

Dear members/sadhsangat Ji,

How can we understand what is NOT dagmag. When Guru Nanak has taught us Sach Bolo, DasaN nauarr di kirat karo and vand chakko, then if we do these, how can we know if we are or are not wavering?


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## Astroboy

*Instructions and Homework
Pass up Homework by 1st February. 2009

*Read Selok 21 to 40 and present a write up of 200 words or more on your understanding of its contents. You may bring up your queries as part of your presentation.

Santokh


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## Tejwant Singh

*Re: Bhagats of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji*



namjap said:


> The reason I brought this up is because last night I read Selok Bhagat Kabir Ji as follows:-
> ਕਬੀਰ ਮਾਨਸ ਜਨਮੁ ਦੁਲੰਭੁ ਹੈ ਹੋਇ ਨ ਬਾਰੈ ਬਾਰ ॥
> कबीर मानस जनमु दुल्मभु है होइ न बारै बार ॥
> Kabīr mānas janam ḏulambẖ hai ho▫e na bārai bār.
> Kabeer, it is so difficult to obtain this human body; it does not just come over and over again.
> 
> ਜਿਉ ਬਨ ਫਲ ਪਾਕੇ ਭੁਇ ਗਿਰਹਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਲਾਗਹਿ ਡਾਰ ॥੩੦॥
> जिउ बन फल पाके भुइ गिरहि बहुरि न लागहि डार ॥३०॥
> Ji▫o ban fal pāke bẖu▫e girėh bahur na lāgėh dār. ||30||
> It is like the ripe fruit on the tree; when it falls to the ground, it cannot be re-attached to the branch. ||30||


 
Please allow me to add my 2 cent worth. The reason this Salok is added in SGGS  as many others in the same theme is the acknowledgement of the beliefs of Hindus and also the Muslims who believe in reincarnation and Hell and Heaven. This was important because the Pandits sold this snakeoil to the devotees as part of their fear tactic to make money and maintain their control over them. Mind you, when the mind-no pun intended, is controlled by someone else then the abuse takes place and people get trained to get used to the abuse because Pandits were and still are thought to have the ear of "God".

But people like Bhagat Kabir realised this a bogus thing. So to cut their umbilical cord from the fear of reincarnation, this beautiful Salok may have been penned by him.

The second line means that once you have followed the Gurmat path of breeding goodness within then you can savour this only life you know and forget about what may have happened in other births that you believe in. 

You are one ripened fruit now. It is time for you to savour and let others savour of your goodness that you have bred in you through Gurmat ideals. And the seed you have in you as the fruit will bear more savoury and yummy fruits, provided you do not go astray.

Tejwant Singh

PS: Namjap, I admire your inner quest.Keep it up..


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

namjap said:


> ਕਬੀਰ  ਡਗਮਗ  ਕਿਆ  ਕਰਹਿ  ਕਹਾ  ਡੁਲਾਵਹਿ  ਜੀਉ  ॥
> कबीर डगमग किआ करहि कहा डुलावहि जीउ ॥
> Kabīr dagmag ki▫ā karahi kahā dulāvėh jī▫o.
> Kabeer, why do you stumble? Why does your soul waver?
> 
> ਸਰਬ  ਸੂਖ  ਕੋ  ਨਾਇਕੋ  ਰਾਮ  ਨਾਮ  ਰਸੁ  ਪੀਉ  ॥੩॥
> सरब सूख को नाइको राम नाम रसु पीउ ॥३॥
> Sarab sūkẖ ko nā▫iko rām nām ras pī▫o. ||3||
> He is the Lord of all comforts and peace; drink in the Sublime Essence of the Lord's Name. ||3||
> 
> Dear members/sadhsangat Ji,
> 
> How can we understand what is NOT dagmag. When Guru Nanak has taught us Sach Bolo, DasaN nauarr di kirat karo and vand chakko, then if we do these, how can we know if we are or are not wavering?



Dagmag is duality....one having two feet in different boats...always at the fork in the road..wondering..right or left....
The Gurmatt Path is one straight and narrow path.....if we use the Gurmatt Tools gifted to us in the Gurbani of SGGS....and use them wisely..we will not dagmag


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## spnadmin

namjap said:


> *Instructions and Homework
> Pass up Homework by 1st February. 2009
> 
> *Read Selok 21 to 40 and present a write up of 200 words or more on your understanding of its contents. You may bring up your queries as part of your presentation.
> 
> Santokh



Now you are scaring me NamJap ji . Who is going to grade the assignments? :shock: I will do my best to keep up.


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## Astroboy

It's a way to involve interested sangat to 'speak out their heart' and share in this amazing learning process. No grading will be done. Your presence will be graciously felt by all. You may used Attach Files to forward your answers/presentations, as an option. 

God Bless.

Santokh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

dont be scared antonia ji...
a poet once wrote.. I peeped into the Class of a Khalsa School being taught by Guru gobind Singh Ji.........
and noticed the students...... all had no heads !!!
We are all "headless"....and i am sure there will be no grading....the SGGS Academy may collate the info through Naam japp ji....and incorporate it in their classes...
so use the Gurus Head  GURMATT and carry on....


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## spnadmin

Thank you -- Gyani ji, NamJap ji -- will proceed without feeling pressure.


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## Tejwant Singh

Antonia ji,

As far as grading is concerned, any word in the test that makes goose bumps crop up is 100. Grading for this Spiritual journey is  done through bliss and ecstasy.

What a wonderful Gurmat world!!!!


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## spnadmin

Assignment submitted 

*In Becoming “light” Become “light”* 

What stands out most to me in these verses by Sant Kabeer is the the idea of becoming “light.” And this idea of “light” works in two different ways. We must cast off the weight – the ballast of self-importance if we wish to survive, to float, on the uncertain oceans of life and death. Only the Creator ties the world to its tasks, but in our false belief that we control our destinies, we take on the weight of deeds driven by haumei. We can also become “light” by becoming truly great. Kabeer says Kabeer means ‘Great” 

ਕਬੀਰਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਤੂ ਤੇਰੋ ਨਾਉ ਕਬੀਰੁ ॥
kabeeraa thuhee kabeer thoo thaero naao kabeer ||
Kabeer, you are Kabeer; your name means great.

 Kabeer has become conscious of the Truth, and can withstand the force of the Truth of  the Sat. This happens if we can die in our ego, and if we become dead but alive. Then we remain continually aware of the Jewel, because we no longer forget the first experience we had of His Darshan when we had our first death. We forget again and again. But the Creator is merciful – and by becoming light we become “light.” 
_
Analysis continues in the next post. _


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## spnadmin

_Analysis_

ਐਸੇ ਮਰਨੇ ਜੋ ਮਰੈ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਮਰਨਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੨੯॥
aisae maranae jo marai bahur n maranaa hoe ||29||
Let those who die, die such a death, that they shall never have to die again. ||29||

Kabir is saying – let this death be the last death. Let the soul never have to return again and again. Once the body is dead, the soul returns again and again in a different body – it is the soul that yearns to be done with the constant coming and going.  In raag Vadahans, Guru Nanak says, ਕਾਂਇਆ ਹੰਸ ਥੀਆ ਵੇਛੋੜਾ ਜਾਂ ਦਿਨ ਪੁੰਨੇ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਏ ॥ kaaneiaa hans thheeaa vaeshhorraa jaan dhin punnae maeree maaeae || The body and the swan-soul are separated, when one's days are past and done, O my mother. And is not the body which reincarnates but the soul that reincarnates. 
 
Guru Nanak Dev is saying, as Kabeer is saying, that reincarnation is difficult. It is not an automatic thing,  

ਕਬੀਰ ਮਾਨਸ ਜਨਮੁ ਦੁਲੰਭੁ ਹੈ ਹੋਇ ਨ ਬਾਰੈ ਬਾਰ ॥ 
kabeer maanas janam dhulanbh hai hoe n baarai baar || 
Kabeer, it is so difficult to obtain this human body; it does not just come over and over again.

The soul must find another life in a body that will have been destined in such a way that the soul can continue its work – the work of finding a perfect union with the Divine. In the same way, Guru Nanak says ਜੇਹਾ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਤੇਹਾ ਪਾਇਆ ਜੇਹਾ ਪੁਰਬਿ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥ jaehaa likhiaa thaehaa paaeiaa jaehaa purab kamaaeiaa || As is one's pre-ordained Destiny, so does one receive, according to one's past actions.
 
Kabir continues, The body is like the fruit which falls from the branch – and then it can not be reattached. 

ਜਿਉ ਬਨ ਫਲ ਪਾਕੇ ਭੁਇ ਗਿਰਹਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਲਾਗਹਿ ਡਾਰ ॥੩੦॥
 jio ban fal paakae bhue girehi bahur n laagehi ddaar ||30|| 
It is like the ripe fruit on the tree; when it falls to the ground, it cannot be re-attached to the branch. ||30||

The irony here is that at the moment the fruit ripens it falls, the blush of life is the first hint of the death which soon follows. 

This is the fate that is certain. Guru Nanak says, everyone has to pass this way. ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਿਮਰਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈਹੋ ਸਭਨਾ ਏਹੁ ਪਇਆਣਾ ॥
saahib simarahu maerae bhaaeeho sabhanaa eaehu paeiaanaa || Meditate in remembrance on the Lord and Master, O my Siblings of Destiny; everyone has to pass this way.
 
So Kabir says something very meaningful against the backdrop of Guru Nanak’s reality. More than once we have a glimpse of the Divine – the Jewel of the Lord. When we first die in the body, that is the first time we have been given His Darshan, however, brief.  

ਰਾਮ ਰਤਨੁ ਤਬ ਪਾਈਐ ਜਉ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਤਜਹਿ ਸਰੀਰੁ ॥੩੧॥ 
raam rathan thab paaeeai jo pehilae thajehi sareer ||31|| 
O Lord, You are Kabeer. The Jewel of the Lord is obtained, when the mortal first gives up his body. ||31||

And each time we come back we forget the experience of His darshan. Each time we have to experience once again the sense of separation. And live again, and die again, in futility. And why? Because of our pride. And this _haumei_ is defined by Sant Kabeer– it is a pride that is stubborn. It refuses to give up its sense of being important, being correct. And Kabir describes this as a struggle in stubborn pride because it gives us nothing but frustration, sorrow and pain. 

Next we are told that, once we were given darshan of the holy – and yet we forget that experience of the divine and sink back into the fate of a slave – for we are slaves to our false pride, and faulty understanding of the source of Truth. 

ਕਬੀਰ ਝੰਖੁ ਨ ਝੰਖੀਐ ਤੁਮਰੋ ਕਹਿਓ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥ 
kabeer jhankh n jhankheeai thumaro kehiou n hoe || 
Kabeer, do not struggle in stubborn pride; nothing happens just because you say so.

The saloka again recalls the words of Guru Nanak in raag Vadahans ਏਥੈ ਧੰਧਾ ਕੂੜਾ ਚਾਰਿ ਦਿਹਾ ਆਗੈ ਸਰਪਰ ਜਾਣਾ ॥ eaethhai dhhandhhaa koorraa chaar dhihaa aagai sarapar jaanaa || These false entanglements last for only a few days; then, one must surely move on to the world hereafter.

ਆਗੈ ਸਰਪਰ ਜਾਣਾ ਜਿਉ ਮਿਹਮਾਣਾ ਕਾਹੇ ਗਾਰਬੁ ਕੀਜੈ ॥
aagai sarapar jaanaa jio mihamaanaa kaahae gaarab keejai ||
He must surely move on to the world hereafter, like a guest; so why does he indulge in ego?

We never question who is in charge because we cling to the notion that we are in charge, and deserve to be proud of what we have gained and what we have accomplished. 

But we delude ourselves. Who is really in charge? Kabeer  says, 

ਕਰਮ ਕਰੀਮ ਜੁ ਕਰਿ ਰਹੇ ਮੇਟਿ ਨ ਸਾਕੈ ਕੋਇ ॥੩੨॥ 
karam kareem j kar rehae maett n saakai koe ||32|| 
No one can erase the actions of the Merciful Lord. ||32||
 
And Guru Nanak has reinforced this idea ਧੰਨੁ ਸਿਰੰਦਾ ਸਚਾ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਜਗੁ ਧੰਧੈ ਲਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ dhhann sirandhaa sachaa paathisaahu jin jag dhhandhhai laaeiaa ||1|| Blessed is the Creator, the True King, who has linked the whole world to its tasks. ||1||

No one can act in the pretense that the workings of life and death are controlled by anyone other than the Creator – and yet this Creator is merciful. _No one can erase the actions of the Merciful Lord._ His work cannot be undone, and thinking that we can substitute our intellect and ambitions for our Destiny is a mistake.

So what awaits us and what does not await us?  If we abide in false ego we are destroyed by contact with the Truth becaise it is so powerful.  Only the one who can give up the false ego can stand up under the test of truth and survive it.    

ਕਬੀਰ ਕਸਉਟੀ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਝੂਠਾ ਟਿਕੈ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
kabeer kasouttee raam kee jhoothaa ttikai n koe ||
Kabeer, no one who is false can withstand the Touchstone of the Lord.

However if we do not abide in ego, and we allow the ego to die, then we can withstand the experience of knowing the Truth of the Divine. 

ਰਾਮ ਕਸਉਟੀ ਸੋ ਸਹੈ ਜੋ ਮਰਿ ਜੀਵਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੩੩॥ 
raam kasouttee so sehai jo mar jeevaa hoe ||33|| 
He alone can pass the test of the Lord's Touchstone, who remains dead while yet alive. ||33||

Some stall, and prefer to remain in trapped in the struggle that the stubborn ego has created, and they remain entrenched in the trappings of importance; and they remain drugged by the addictive effects of worldly. For them, their consciousness is drowning because of their attachment to a false sense of self. In the next saloka, the gaudy robes refer to our sense of importance. The betel nut refers to the treacherous way in which our ego stimulates a sense of self-importance. We chew on the betel leaves, we cannot get enough stimulation. We are compulsive in our love of the betel nut. Our thinking is compulsive, and addictive. 

ਕਬੀਰ ਊਜਲ ਪਹਿਰਹਿ ਕਾਪਰੇ ਪਾਨ ਸੁਪਾਰੀ ਖਾਹਿ ॥
kabeer oojal pehirehi kaaparae paan supaaree khaahi ||
Kabeer, some wear gaudy robes, and chew betel leaves and betel nuts. 

Betel nuts or areca are a stimulant which is addictive. Betel nuts also play an important part in ceremonies connected with offerings to priests, people of high standing. The betel or areca is addictive the way our attachment to our sense of self is addictive. The stimulant effects of self-importance are so addictive that it clouds our ability to step away from samsara and connect with a greater truth than the truth that we perceive with our intellect.

Without the greater truth we are carried off like slaves captured in war – a war which is a struggle between our foolish nature and our one time consciousness of the Divine – the first darshan that we continually forget with each coming, each going.  

ਏਕਸ ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨੁ ਬਾਧੇ ਜਮ ਪੁਰਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੩੪॥
eaekas har kae naam bin baadhhae jam pur jaanhi ||34||
Without the Name of the One Lord, they are bound and gagged and taken to the City of Death. ||34||

In the remaining  salokas Kabir expands his thinking about pride of ego. In giving up the ego, detaching from our false sense of identity, and remaining dead while alive, we are told to become “light” Why is this important? It is important because our soul’s life is old – we have been here many times and carry the ballast of past deeds with us. Our life is like an old boat. 

ਕਬੀਰ ਬੇੜਾ ਜਰਜਰਾ ਫੂਟੇ ਛੇਂਕ ਹਜਾਰ ॥ 
kabeer baerraa jarajaraa foottae shhaenak hajaar || 
Kabeer, the boat is old, and it has thousands of holes.

The boat is old, and it is full of holes, and it will sink unless we throw off the weight of the past. And if we do not do that we will be drowned by the weight we carry, coming from layer after layer of deeds driven by pride, greed, lust, anger and attachment. We must become light. We must cast off the ballast created by the illusions of our  false ego and realize the truth of the Satguru because:

ਹਰੂਏ ਹਰੂਏ ਤਿਰਿ ਗਏ ਡੂਬੇ ਜਿਨ ਸਿਰ ਭਾਰ ॥੩੫॥
harooeae harooeae thir geae ddoobae jin sir bhaar ||35||
Those who are light get across, while those who carry the weight of their sins on their heads are drowned. ||35||

Kabir goes on to teach us that everything that is part of our material selves is transitory and vulnerable to destruction. It is destroyed. Our bones turn to charcoal; our hair burns like straw. 

ਕਬੀਰ ਹਾਡ ਜਰੇ ਜਿਉ ਲਾਕਰੀ ਕੇਸ ਜਰੇ ਜਿਉ ਘਾਸੁ ॥
kabeer haadd jarae jio laakaree kaes jarae jio ghaas ||
Kabeer, the bones burn like wood, and the hair burns like straw 
 
These substances wood and straw give off intense heat, but the heat, the energy of material life, is short lived. We die.  And Kabir is saddened by this awareness  -- by the idea that the fire is intense, and the death is quick, and the destruction is final and complete.          

ਇਹੁ ਜਗੁ ਜਰਤਾ ਦੇਖਿ ਕੈ ਭਇਓ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਉਦਾਸੁ ॥੩੬॥
eihu jag jarathaa dhaekh kai bhaeiou kabeer oudhaas ||36||
Seeing the world burning like this, Kabeer has become sad. ||36||
 
But we should remember that we are nothing more than those bones wrapped in skin. This is nothing to celebrate.

ਕਬੀਰ ਗਰਬੁ ਨ ਕੀਜੀਐ ਚਾਮ ਲਪੇਟੇ ਹਾਡ ॥
 kabeer garab n keejeeai chaam lapaettae haadd || 
Kabeer, do not be so proud of your bones wrapped up in skin.

That is all we are – and in ignorance we are tempted to be proud of what is nothing more than a temporary state. We are proud of all the trappings horses and tents, all the grandeur, both real and imagined, and we forget where we are headed. Kabir says give up this illusory pride.

ਹੈਵਰ ਊਪਰਿ ਛਤ੍ਰ ਤਰ ਤੇ ਫੁਨਿ ਧਰਨੀ ਗਾਡ ॥੩੭॥
haivar oopar shhathr thar thae fun dhharanee gaadd ||37||
Those who were on their horses and under their canopies, those who obtained mansions, all were eventually buried under the ground. 
 
Guru Nanak in sriRaag also says ਜੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਸੋ ਚਲਸੀ ਕੂੜਾ ਮੋਹੁ ਨ ਵੇਖੁ ॥ jo dheesai so chalasee koorraa mohu n vaekh || Whatever is seen shall pass away. So do not be attached to this false show.
 
Kabir continues, give up your prideful self because you are headed for the cemetery.

ਕਬੀਰ ਗਰਬੁ ਨ ਕੀਜੀਐ ਊਚਾ ਦੇਖਿ ਅਵਾਸੁ ॥
kabeer garab n keejeeai oochaa dhaekh avaas ||
Kabeer, do not be so proud of your tall mansions.

ਆਜੁ ਕਾਲ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਭੁਇ ਲੇਟਣਾ ਊਪਰਿ ਜਾਮੈ ਘਾਸੁ ॥੩੮॥
aaj kaalih bhue laettanaa oopar jaamai ghaas ||38||
Today or tomorrow, you shall lie beneath the ground, and the grass shall grow above you. ||38|| 

And then Kabir says – do not laugh at the poor. They may seem to have achieved so much less, obtained so little, have so little to show for their lives or to be proud of. 

ਕਬੀਰ ਗਰਬੁ ਨ ਕੀਜੀਐ ਰੰਕੁ ਨ ਹਸੀਐ ਕੋਇ ॥ 
kabeer garab n keejeeai rank n haseeai koe || 
Kabeer, do not be so proud, and do not laugh at the poor. 
 
In other words, do not ridicule those who seem less fortunate. Why? Because your, our, my boat (body, life) is “out at sea” where we can be certain of nothing. We are, when we are alive in our bodies and in our ego, traveling on an uncertain, sometimes treacherous and turbulent ocean. Life is uncertain. Only one thing is certain.  We do not know what will happen.     Only the Creator knows with certainty what will become of us in the end. 

ਅਜਹੁ ਸੁ ਨਾਉ ਸਮੁੰਦ੍ਰ ਮਹਿ ਕਿਆ ਜਾਨਉ ਕਿਆ ਹੋਇ ॥੩੯॥ 
ajahu s naao samundhr mehi kiaa jaano kiaa hoe ||39|| 
Your boat is still out at sea; who knows what will happen? ||39||

So do not be proud, so trusting of the world that as you perceive it an with the sense you make of it. Do not be so proud of worldly beauty and material achievements. 

ਕਬੀਰ ਗਰਬੁ ਨ ਕੀਜੀਐ ਦੇਹੀ ਦੇਖਿ ਸੁਰੰਗ ॥ 
kabeer garab n keejeeai dhaehee dhaekh surang || 
Kabeer, do not be so proud, looking at your beautiful body

Because you will have to die and leave all behind, like a snake shedding its skin. And you will have to return – also, like a snake shedding its skin. This is the lesson 

ਆਜੁ ਕਾਲ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਤਜਿ ਜਾਹੁਗੇ ਜਿਉ ਕਾਂਚੁਰੀ ਭੁਯੰਗ ॥੪੦॥
aaj kaalih thaj jaahugae jio kaanchuree bhuyang ||40||
Today or tomorrow, you will have to leave it behind, like the snake shedding its skin. 

And Guru Nanak repeats in raag Vadahans. ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਿਮਰਿਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈਹੋ ਸਭਨਾ ਏਹੁ ਪਇਆਣਾ ॥੨॥ saahib simarihu maerae bhaaeeho sabhanaa eaehu paeiaanaa ||2|| Meditate in remembrance on the Lord and Master, O my Siblings of Destiny; everyone has to pass this way. ||2||

Let the ego die. Obtain the Jewel. And you will never die again.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

antonai ji..
you write.....<<<<Let the ego die. Obtain the Jewel. And you will never die again.<<<<

There is a saying in Punjabi..Sau hath rassa sireh teh ganddh...
literally.... one hundred yards of rope..knot at the end...

The lesson is in plain view...Thanks.:happy:


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## Astroboy

My assignment will be submitted tomorrow, Gyani Ji.


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## Astroboy

The following is a translation of Selok Bhagat Kabir Ji (Selok 21 to 40) from http://www.srigranth.org/



> Kabeer, peace does not come in this world by making lots of friends.
> Those who keep their consciousness focused on the One Lord shall find eternal peace.
> Kabeer, the world is afraid of death - that death fills my mind with bliss.
> It is only by death that perfect, supreme bliss is obtained.
> The Treasure of the Lord is obtained, O Kabeer, but do not undo its knot.
> There is no market to sell it, no appraiser, no customer, and no price.
> Kabeer, be in love with only that one, whose Master is the Lord.
> The Pandits, the religious scholars, kings and landlords - what good is love for them?
> Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.
> You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald.
> Kabeer, the world is a room filled with black soot; the blind fall into its trap.
> I am a sacrifice to those who are thrown in, and still escape.
> Kabeer, this body shall perish; save it, if you can.
> Even those who have tens of thousands and millions, must depart bare-footed in the end.
> Kabeer, this body shall perish; place it on the path.
> Either join the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, or sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord.
> Kabeer, dying, dying, the whole world has to die, and yet, none know how to die.
> Let those who die, die such a death, that they shall never have to die again.
> Kabeer, it is so difficult to obtain this human body; it does not just come over and over again.
> It is like the ripe fruit on the tree; when it falls to the ground, it cannot be re-attached to the branch.
> Kabeer, you are Kabeer; your name means great.
> O Lord, You are Kabeer. The Jewel of the Lord is obtained, when the mortal first gives up his body.
> Kabeer, do not struggle in stubborn pride; nothing happens just because you say so.
> No one can erase the actions of the Merciful Lord.
> Kabeer, no one who is false can withstand the Touchstone of the Lord.
> He alone can pass the test of the Lord's Touchstone, who remains dead while yet alive.
> Kabeer, some wear gaudy robes, and chew betel leaves and betel nuts.
> Without the Name of the One Lord, they are bound and gagged and taken to the City of Death.
> Kabeer, the boat is old, and it has thousands of holes.
> Those who are light get across, while those who carry the weight of their sins on their heads are drowned.
> Kabeer, the bones burn like wood, and the hair burns like straw.
> Seeing the world burning like this, Kabeer has become sad.
> Kabeer, do not be so proud of your bones wrapped up in skin.
> Those who were on their horses and under their canopies, were eventually buried under the ground.
> Kabeer, do not be so proud of your tall mansions.
> Today or tomorrow, you shall lie beneath the ground, and the grass shall grow above you.
> Kabeer, do not be so proud, and do not laugh at the poor.
> Your boat is still out at sea; who knows what will happen?
> Kabeer, do not be so proud, looking at your beautiful body.
> Today or tomorrow, you will have to leave it behind, like the snake shedding its skin.


 My simple understanding of the above translations is summarized as follows:-

We are living in a grand scale illusion where things are NOT as they seem.
By making many friends we are putting out attention outside of ourselves,
whereas the origin and nature of peace always comes from within.

Kabir Ji says that death of the physical is also death of the ego.
Without the ego we attain total bliss.

The treasure of the Naam is not understood by the mundane; 
_*‘don’t cast pearls before the swine”.*_

Be in the company of the saints who recognize the one Lord as their Master.
This is perceiving 'life' from the permanent aspects while living in duality.

ਨਾਮੁ ਰਹਿਓ ਸਾਧੂ ਰਹਿਓ ਰਹਿਓ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ॥ 
Nām rahi▫o sāḏẖū rahi▫o rahi▫o gur gobinḏ. 
The Naam remains; the Holy Saints remain; the Guru, the Lord of the Universe, remains. 

Cherish the purpose of the human body,

ਰੈਣਿ ਗਵਾਈ ਸੋਇ ਕੈ ਦਿਵਸੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ਖਾਇ ॥ 
Raiṇ gavā▫ī so▫e kai ḏivas gavā▫i▫ā kẖā▫e. 
The nights are wasted sleeping, and the days are wasted eating. 
ਹੀਰੇ ਜੈਸਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਹੈ ਕਉਡੀ ਬਦਲੇ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥ 
Hīre jaisā janam hai ka▫udī baḏle jā▫e. ||1|| 
Human life is such a precious jewel, but it is being lost in exchange for a mere shell. ||1|| 

Kabir means “Great”, sing the praises of the great Lord, and submit to the Will of God (Laws of Natural Living/Death). Instead of resenting and thinking we are in control. 

We only pass the test and fulfill the purpose of this lifetime by killing the ego while still living in the physical body. Those who live for taste and desires fail the test and are not liberated. 

Our body, like an old boat with countless holes which is bound to sink and we shall leave this body like sheathing of a snake skin, 
so what good is it to have pride of status, position and properties? 
What good is it to look down on others?


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## Astroboy

*Instructions and Homework* (for open discussion - to start immediately once you've read.)

Read Selok 41 to 60 from Page 22 of this link: Gurbani Contemplation - Selok Bhagat Kabirji | Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy Malaysia - Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy Malaysia


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## spnadmin

NamJap ji

So far I am the only one who turned in homework for the last assignment.  Someone else will have to take a turn. You know what I am talking about because you and I had this experience before on another thread about playing the tabla. There are some Gursikhs out there who have more vichaar than I do. So I am waiting to hear from them.    Let's go sanghat(t)h ji !!!!!


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

aad ji..only the hardworking students submit homework on time....the lazy ones either dont do it..or pass it up late....or have excuses !!
I was wondering if the workload is just too heavy......this thread ?? maybe we ought to slow down a bit ?...so that more readers can digest the stuff and then hopefully contribute to it..just my thoughts....:yes:


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## spnadmin

Thanks Gyani ji

I will wait for a while.


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## Admin

I think expecting immediate response from Sangat is asking for too much... Gyani Ji & Namjap Ji, if i am not asking for too much, would it be possible for you to invite the students coming to academy in Malaysia to join SPN and share their thoughts and inputs after a session there... its like they can submit the notes and observations here at SPN... that would be awesome... so in a way we can have online classroom in the real sense. Once the members at SPN get the hang of the it, gradually the active participation would increase... already looking the page views, this is quite a popular section. :yes:


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Aman Ji,
Gurfateh.

Thats good. Although I am not directly involved in the running of the SGGS Academy, a number of its students are also my students ( to get  a more balanced input ) and a few may already be members of SPN ( obviously the silent type - or i would have heard from them by now !!)...but YES i will sure do the "canvassing" for SPN and I am sure Santokh veer ji will do it as well in his locality (Seremban is about 50 KM away from me).
Gurbani contemplation/vichaar/ is intrinsically attractive....hence i am not surprised at the page views..seeing that this thread is just a few days old.
Chardeekalla Always..


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ ਲੂਟਨਾ ਹੈ ਤ ਲੂਟਿ ਲੈ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਹੈ ਲੂਟਿ ॥ 
कबीर लूटना है त लूटि लै राम नाम है लूटि ॥ 
Kabīr lūtnā hai ṯa lūt lai rām nām hai lūt. 
Kabeer, if you must rob and plunder, then plunder the plunder of the Lord's Name. 

ਫਿਰਿ ਪਾਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਹੁਗੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਜਾਹਿੰਗੇ ਛੂਟਿ ॥੪੧॥ 
फिरि पाछै पछुताहुगे प्रान जाहिंगे छूटि ॥४१॥ 
Fir pācẖẖai pacẖẖuṯāhuge parān jāhinge cẖẖūt. ||41|| 
Otherwise, in the world hereafter, you will regret and repent, when the breath of life leaves the body. ||41|| 

ਕਬੀਰ ਐਸਾ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਜਨਮਿਓ ਅਪਨੈ ਘਰਿ ਲਾਵੈ ਆਗਿ ॥ 
कबीर ऐसा कोई न जनमिओ अपनै घरि लावै आगि ॥ 
Kabīr aisā ko▫ī na janmi▫o apnai gẖar lāvai āg. 
Kabeer, there is no one born, who burns his own home, 

ਪਾਂਚਉ ਲਰਿਕਾ ਜਾਰਿ ਕੈ ਰਹੈ ਰਾਮ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗਿ ॥੪੨॥ 
पांचउ लरिका जारि कै रहै राम लिव लागि ॥४२॥ 
Pāŉcẖa▫o larikā jār kai rahai rām liv lāg. ||42|| 
and burning his five sons, remains lovingly attuned to the Lord. ||42|| 

ਕੋ ਹੈ ਲਰਿਕਾ ਬੇਚਈ ਲਰਿਕੀ ਬੇਚੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ 
को है लरिका बेचई लरिकी बेचै कोइ ॥ 
Ko hai larikā becẖ▫ī larikī becẖai ko▫e. 
Kabeer, how rare are those who sell their son and sell their daughter 

ਸਾਝਾ ਕਰੈ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਿਉ ਹਰਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਬਨਜੁ ਕਰੇਇ ॥੪੩॥ 
साझा करै कबीर सिउ हरि संगि बनजु करेइ ॥४३॥ 
Sājẖā karai Kabīr si▫o har sang banaj kare▫i. ||43|| 
and, entering into partnership with Kabeer, deal with the Lord. ||43|| 

*I have some queries, from the above 3 seloks:-*

"Otherwise, in the world hereafter, you will regret and repent, when the breath of life leaves the body." ||41|| 

*How can* we regret when the physical body is already dead ?
I do understand that we are Soul and even in the dream state 
we can have experiences that are spiritual in nature. And most 
of the time we have difficulty expressing the dream state into proper words. 
.......................................................................................

Gyani Ji, can you explain what is meant by selling son and daughter ?


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## spnadmin

Nam Jap ji

The salokas:

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰ
My thoughts below each line. I am offering them by way of a dialog instead of an essay. 



namjap said:


> ਕਬੀਰ ਲੂਟਨਾ ਹੈ ਤ ਲੂਟਿ ਲੈ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਹੈ ਲੂਟਿ ॥
> कबीर लूटना है त लूटि लै राम नाम है लूटि ॥
> Kabīr lūtnā hai ṯa lūt lai rām nām hai lūt.
> Kabeer, if you must rob and plunder, then plunder the plunder of the Lord's Name.
> _
> There is only one treasure, the treasure of the Lord's name._
> 
> ਫਿਰਿ ਪਾਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਹੁਗੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਜਾਹਿੰਗੇ ਛੂਟਿ ॥੪੧॥
> फिरि पाछै पछुताहुगे प्रान जाहिंगे छूटि ॥४१॥
> Fir pācẖẖai pacẖẖuṯāhuge parān jāhinge cẖẖūt. ||41||
> Otherwise, in the world hereafter, you will regret and repent, when the breath of life leaves the body. ||41||
> 
> _The opportunity to merge in the Light of the Naam will have been wasted, and all that was gained from enchantment with worldly pleasures will be recognized as the trickery of the cynical and skeptical intellect. False and empty._
> 
> 
> 
> ਕਬੀਰ ਐਸਾ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਜਨਮਿਓ ਅਪਨੈ ਘਰਿ ਲਾਵੈ ਆਗਿ ॥
> कबीर ऐसा कोई न जनमिओ अपनै घरि लावै आगि ॥
> Kabīr aisā ko▫ī na janmi▫o apnai gẖar lāvai āg.
> Kabeer, there is no one born, who burns his own home,
> 
> _Who ever disturbs his own house will inherit the wind (Proverbs, 11:29). Better to center the heart in one's own home._
> 
> 
> 
> ਪਾਂਚਉ ਲਰਿਕਾ ਜਾਰਿ ਕੈ ਰਹੈ ਰਾਮ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗਿ ॥੪੨॥
> पांचउ लरिका जारि कै रहै राम लिव लागि ॥४२॥
> Pāŉcẖa▫o larikā jār kai rahai rām liv lāg. ||42||
> and burning his five sons, remains lovingly attuned to the Lord. ||42||
> 
> _Eliminate the 5 passions, the five thieves, and stay attached to the Beloved._
> 
> 
> 
> ਕੋ ਹੈ ਲਰਿਕਾ ਬੇਚਈ ਲਰਿਕੀ ਬੇਚੈ ਕੋਇ ॥
> को है लरिका बेचई लरिकी बेचै कोइ ॥
> Ko hai larikā becẖ▫ī larikī becẖai ko▫e.
> Kabeer, how rare are those who sell their son and sell their daughter
> 
> ਸਾਝਾ ਕਰੈ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਿਉ ਹਰਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਬਨਜੁ ਕਰੇਇ ॥੪੩॥
> साझा करै कबीर सिउ हरि संगि बनजु करेइ ॥४३॥
> Sājẖā karai Kabīr si▫o har sang banaj kare▫i. ||43||
> and, entering into partnership with Kabeer, deal with the Lord. ||43||
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> "Otherwise, in the world hereafter, you will regret and repent, when the breath of life leaves the body." ||41||
> 
> _Our regret after death is the regret of the soul not of the body: Without the Guru there is only pitch darkness._
> 
> 
> 
> Hope you are not offended.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

namjap said:


> ਕਬੀਰ ਲੂਟਨਾ ਹੈ ਤ ਲੂਟਿ ਲੈ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਹੈ ਲੂਟਿ ॥
> कबीर लूटना है त लूटि लै राम नाम है लूटि ॥
> Kabīr lūtnā hai ṯa lūt lai rām nām hai lūt.
> Kabeer, if you must rob and plunder, then plunder the plunder of the Lord's Name.
> 
> ਫਿਰਿ ਪਾਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਹੁਗੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਜਾਹਿੰਗੇ ਛੂਟਿ ॥੪੧॥
> फिरि पाछै पछुताहुगे प्रान जाहिंगे छूटि ॥४१॥
> Fir pācẖẖai pacẖẖuṯāhuge parān jāhinge cẖẖūt. ||41||
> Otherwise, in the world hereafter, you will regret and repent, when the breath of life leaves the body. ||41||
> 
> ਕਬੀਰ ਐਸਾ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਜਨਮਿਓ ਅਪਨੈ ਘਰਿ ਲਾਵੈ ਆਗਿ ॥
> कबीर ऐसा कोई न जनमिओ अपनै घरि लावै आगि ॥
> Kabīr aisā ko▫ī na janmi▫o apnai gẖar lāvai āg.
> Kabeer, there is no one born, who burns his own home,
> 
> ਪਾਂਚਉ ਲਰਿਕਾ ਜਾਰਿ ਕੈ ਰਹੈ ਰਾਮ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗਿ ॥੪੨॥
> पांचउ लरिका जारि कै रहै राम लिव लागि ॥४२॥
> Pāŉcẖa▫o larikā jār kai rahai rām liv lāg. ||42||
> and burning his five sons, remains lovingly attuned to the Lord. ||42||
> 
> ਕੋ ਹੈ ਲਰਿਕਾ ਬੇਚਈ ਲਰਿਕੀ ਬੇਚੈ ਕੋਇ ॥
> को है लरिका बेचई लरिकी बेचै कोइ ॥
> Ko hai larikā becẖ▫ī larikī becẖai ko▫e.
> Kabeer, how rare are those who sell their son and sell their daughter
> 
> ਸਾਝਾ ਕਰੈ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਿਉ ਹਰਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਬਨਜੁ ਕਰੇਇ ॥੪੩॥
> साझा करै कबीर सिउ हरि संगि बनजु करेइ ॥४३॥
> Sājẖā karai Kabīr si▫o har sang banaj kare▫i. ||43||
> and, entering into partnership with Kabeer, deal with the Lord. ||43||
> 
> *I have some queries, from the above 3 seloks:-*
> 
> "Otherwise, in the world hereafter, you will regret and repent, when the breath of life leaves the body." ||41||
> 
> *How can* we regret when the physical body is already dead ?
> I do understand that we are Soul and even in the dream state
> we can have experiences that are spiritual in nature. And most
> of the time we have difficulty expressing the dream state into proper words.
> .......................................................................................
> 
> Gyani Ji, can you explain what is meant by selling son and daughter ?



Guru Piayario Jios..
Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.

The Larika....son is PLURAL..and means SONS.
The "Sons" of Maya are Kaam Krodh Lobh Moh Hankaar....

The "Larikee" is also PLURAL...
Daughters of Maya are...
AAsha Hope..Trishna..Desire..EErkha..Jealousy..etc etc.

The Slok No. 41 first line quoted above...

The word "loot" is used in a sense of GRAB AS MUCH..as FAST as YOU CAN.... 
Meaning..Raam's NAAM is being DISTRIBUTED....GRAB as much as you can as Fast as you can....The "loot" is NOT as in "ROBBERY"  Looting..Plunder....
Those who really KNOW the PUNJABI LINGO..would NEVER take this meaning..as robbing, plundering..wayside robbery...
In Various Janamsakhis, it can be easily seen where the Singhs are asked to "LOOT LAO...and the thing being asked to be "PLUNDERED" is KARAH PARSHAAD !!! Simply menaing..Take as much Karah parshaad as you can....( this is those times when people like us were NOT SO TERRIFIED of Karah parshaad/Cholestrol..Fat Phobic as we are TODAY !!! Those days peopel Grabbed Karah parshad with BOTH HANDS OVERFLOWING..and quickly eating and coming back for MORE..As a Young lad of about 5 I perosnally used to see my dad cook 18KG GHEE into Karah parshaad in Gurdwara Tatt Khalsa Diwan..early 1950's... sometimes TWICE A DAY.... total 36 KG GHEE !! .today 500 GRAMMES is too much...i bet today 36 KG ghee will take about THREE YEARS or more !!) sorry i digress....
2. The Aapne ghar aag..burn..etc  refers to the "AAP"..the Haumaii inisde..aapnaatt..the "I"..the "ME"..the "MY"...and Bhagat ji is saying with conviction that such persons are as rare as birds milk !! Meaning those who cna BURN their I, ME, MY..etc are very very RARE...
2. How can we REGRET when we are dead ?? EXACTLY RIGHT !! So whats wrong here ?? THE TRANSLATION !!!
What bahagt ji is declaring is NOT about the HEREAFTER...( whatever that means..no one has ever coem back and told us..OH I regret..?? and GURBANI is NOT about such "DOUBTS"..but TRUE FACT....)...Simply put Bhagat ji is WARNING US that it will be "TOO LATE"...the word Pachheh pachtanegeh..is TOO LATE...and this PACHHTAVA..regret comes on our DEATH BED...while we are STILL ALIVE...those last few moments when our entire LIFE is played back to us like a Super Fast Blu ray DVD..super clear !!! ALL thsoe WASTED opportunities..to do NAAM JAPP....etc etc flash before our EYES...thats when we REGRET.

Dont beleive me.???   .read GURBANI elsewhere....so many Valuable lessons point towards such REGRET.... we are told NOT to leave Naam japp till LATER....why ?? Becasue IF you cant do it NOW while young strong and Healthy...CAN you really do it when you are OLD..FEEBLE..eyes watering..hands trembling...heart fluttering....lying on a hopsital bed waiting for the nurse to administer medicine to prolong life ?? IS THAT the BEST TIME ??  When you are in ICU..with TUBES and needles stuck everywhere....is that when you do Naam japp ??    NO jios....THATS when we REGRET !! YES JIOS>>>regret is while we still have THIS BODY !!! Only this body..this MIND can REGRET..... Elsewhere Gurbani also points towards...the OX metaphor.... HOW do you Naam japp when you are like the OX...when your employer is beating your back..urging you ONWARD....your "responisbilites" weighing on your back....your "tongue" has NO TIME to Naam japp....its busy "feeding" the Body !!....Pachheh pachhtanmgah...is TOO LATE..not in "here-eafter...NO SIR...its *TOO LATE* IN THIS WORLD....  Doesnt this explanation Fit like a GLOVE ??.....Gears meshing perfectly... GURBANI is like THAT..PERFECT..its our own "understandings and interpretations" that dont mesh..then we have queries....and doubts...BUT once we start getting into "TUNE" with Gurbani as a WHOLE ( by this I mean the Entire 1429 pages of Gurbani is ONE WHOLE - Complete map..jigsawpuzzle....with no missing pieces... and Each query..rasied while reading Gurbani has the Answer also in Gurbani..we just have to look carefully....unfortunately people have the tendency to just pick up one "piece of  a jigsaw puzzle" and jump to conclusions....thats why its very very vital to take Gurbani as WHOLE..look for the bigger picture....scan the entire SGGS for the answers....not just individual tuks,,shabads..or sloks...as most Translators ( especially the one you quote) has done.
As an example..just look at how Prof Sahib Singh Ji has dealt with Kabir Jis sloks. First he has an INTRODUCTION running to a few pages in which he has grouped the sloks in GROUPS..each group deals with a specific..then how the various Groups tie up..with Bhagat kabir Jis bani elsewhere in the SGGS.... etc etc..then ONLY he goes into the sloks line by line....alwasy BRINGING IN Bani from other pages of SGGS to corrobrate..establish certain facts..and Vocabulary..etc etc. This is the sheer beauty of Sahib Singhs SGGS Darpan !! Unfortunately only in PUNJABI .....no English translations so far....so sad....

5. Nijh Ghar is not "Personal home"...Ghar is NOt home....Aapna Ghar is not " My home"......The English words give such erroneous and distorted twisted meanings...
a simple reader woudl be misled into beleiving that Bahagt kbir ji is talking about an "arsonist"...who burns his own home/dwelling !! why on earth talk about such "worldy things" in a Spiritual Guide such as SGGS ??....

Chardeekalla jios....blessings of Guru ji...that we have the time to vichaar and we have the medium to do vichaar...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

PAGE 1365 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan)...
For those who can read Punjabi..... the INTRODUCTION on Kabir Jis sloks by Prof sahib Singh and his detailed explanations .....
So sorry it is not in English....


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## pk70

* Respected Gyani jo *
*Thanks for correcting totally horrible translation of Kabir ji’s Slokas. I usually say that the Guru Followers should always keep the concept of Guru Message in mind(while enjoying Gurbani) which in a nut shell is “ Most precious and vital deed is His Naam contemplation who is the Creator of all, is beyond birth and death, enomisty, fear and is from Himself, Naam Simran be done through Guru if followed strictly to over come all negative forces within, all rest is a Maya show in temporary state as per His Ordinance” Below is my views in essence  merely an addition to Gyani ji’s expression*
*ਕਬੀਰ ਲੂਟਨਾ ਹੈ ਤ ਲੂਟਿ ਲੈ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਹੈ ਲੂਟਿ **॥ **ਫਿਰਿ ਪਾਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਹੁਗੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਜਾਹਿੰਗੇ ਛੂਟਿ **॥**੪੧**॥ *
*Kabīr lūtnā hai ṯa lūt lai rām nām hai lūt. **Fir pācẖẖai pacẖẖuṯāhuge parān jāhinge cẖẖūt. ||41|| *
*Kabir ji only believed in the Name of the all preceding Creator and remained imbued with Him, regardless what metaphor or simile he uses; it must be translated in that context. As Gyani ji stated the translator has failed to understand him and pass on his message to others as a translator*
*In essence; Kabir ji is addressing to his audience to take advantage of the given time to contemplate on the Creator lest later on near death only repentance of not contemplating on Him should be left*
*ਹੇ* *ਕਬੀਰ! (**'**ਦੁਨੀਆ**' **ਦੀ ਖ਼ਾਤਰ ਕੀਹ ਭਟਕ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈਂ**? **ਵੇਖ) ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਦਬਾ-ਦਬ* *ਵੰਡਿਆ ਜਾ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ**, **ਜੇ ਇਕੱਠਾ ਕਰਨਾ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਨਾਮ-ਧਨ ਇਕੱਠਾ ਕਰ**। **ਜਦੋਂ ਜਿੰਦ** (**ਸਰੀਰ ਵਿਚੋਂ) ਨਿਕਲ ਗਈ**, **ਸਮਾਂ ਵਿਹਾ ਜਾਣ ਤੇ ਅਫ਼ਸੋਸ ਕਰਨਾ ਪਏਗਾ**।**੪੧**। *
*ਕਬੀਰ ਐਸਾ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਜਨਮਿਓ ਅਪਨੈ ਘਰਿ ਲਾਵੈ ਆਗਿ **॥ **ਪਾਂਚਉ ਲਰਿਕਾ ਜਾਰਿ ਕੈ ਰਹੈ ਰਾਮ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗਿ **॥**੪੨**॥ *
*Kabīr aisā ko▫ī na janmi▫o apnai gẖar lāvai āg. **Pāŉcẖa▫o larikā jār kai rahai rām liv lāg. ||42|| *
*Here the translator is horribly poor in translating the message again. We are housing five negative forces who are called by Kabir ji as five sons of mind. First he is meant to state that there are not many who are ready to kill these fives to remain imbued with the Lord. If you notice, talk about Him and the hindrances coming in way of the Creator, are addressed from first one to this one and this idea is kept in the following too. That is the concept of Gurmat.*
*(**ਪਰ* *ਨਾਮ ਧਨ ਇਕੱਠਾ ਕਰਨ ਲਈ ਜ਼ਰੂਰੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਅਪਣੱਤ ਨੂੰ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਖ਼ਤਮ ਕਰੇ**, **ਤੇ) ਹੇ* *ਕਬੀਰ! (ਜਗਤ ਵਿਚ) ਅਜਿਹਾ ਕੋਈ ਵਿਰਲਾ ਹੀ ਮਿਲਦਾ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਆਪਣੇ ਸਰੀਰਕ ਮੋਹ ਨੂੰ ਸਾੜਦਾ* *ਹੈ**, **ਤੇ**, **ਕਾਮਾਦਿਕ ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਪੰਜਾਂ ਹੀ ਪੁੱਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਸਾੜ ਕੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ (ਦੀ ਯਾਦ)* *ਵਿਚ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਜੋੜੀ ਰੱਖਦਾ ਹੈ**।**੪੨**। *
*ਕੋ ਹੈ ਲਰਿਕਾ ਬੇਚਈ ਲਰਿਕੀ ਬੇਚੈ ਕੋਇ **॥ **ਸਾਝਾ ਕਰੈ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਿਉ ਹਰਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਬਨਜੁ ਕਰੇਇ **॥**੪੩**॥ *
*Ko hai larikā becẖ▫ī larikī becẖai ko▫e. **Sājẖā karai Kabīr si▫o har sang banaj kare▫i. ||43|| *
*Larka and Larki are metaphors used for five negative forces and avarice and envy. Again Kabir ji asks if there is any one who can give up five forces and avarice and envy for His Name, if any does that, he can be his partner to contemplate on the Creator( who has mind in duality cannot understand that truth) *
*ਕੋਈ* *ਵਿਰਲਾ ਹੀ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲ (ਉਸ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਦਾ) ਵਣਜ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ**, **ਜੋ (ਨਾਮ ਧਨ* *ਖ਼ਰੀਦਣ ਲਈ ਕਾਮਾਦਿਕ ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਪੰਜ) ਪੁੱਤ੍ਰ ਅਤੇ (ਆਸ਼ਾ ਤ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨਾ ਈਰਖਾ ਆਦਿਕ) ਧੀਆਂ* *ਵੱਟੇ ਵਿਚ ਦੇਂਦਾ ਹੈ**। **ਕਬੀਰ ਚਾਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਅਜੇਹਾ ਮਨੁੱਖ (ਇਸ ਵਪਾਰ ਵਿਚ) ਮੇਰੇ* *ਨਾਲ ਭੀ ਸਤ-ਸੰਗ ਦੀ ਸਾਂਝ ਬਣਾਏ**।**੪੩**। **❀ **ਨੋਟ: ਪਿਛਲੇ ਸ਼ਲੋਕ ਦੇ ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ **'**ਪਾਂਚਉ ਲਰਿਕਾ**' **ਵਿਚ **'**ਲਰਿਕਾ**' **ਬਹੁ-ਵਚਨ ਹੈ**, **ਇਹੀ ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ ਇਸ ਸ਼ਲੋਕ ਵਿਚ ਭੀ ਉਸ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਭਾਵ ਵਿਚ ਹੀ* *ਵਰਤਿਆ ਹੈ**। **ਇਸੇ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ **'**ਲਰਿਕੀ**' **ਭੀ ਬਹੁ-ਵਚਨ ਹੈ**। *
*The following Sloka is left out but it is very important and should go along with the previous Slokas*
*ਕਬੀਰ ਇਹ ਚੇਤਾਵਨੀ ਮਤ ਸਹਸਾ ਰਹਿ ਜਾਇ **॥ **ਪਾਛੈ ਭੋਗ ਜੁ ਭੋਗਵੇ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਗੁੜੁ ਲੈ ਖਾਹਿ **॥**੪੪**॥ *
*Kabīr ih cẖeṯāvnī maṯ sahsā rėh jā▫e. **Pācẖẖai bẖog jo bẖogve ṯin ko guṛ lai kẖāhi. ||44|| *
*In it Kabir ji is taunting and reminding those who think they have enjoyed all pleasures of the world, must know( shouldn’t be in any doubt) what they have enjoyed is literally nothing to the pleasure one gets by being imbued with the Creator.*
*ਹੇ* *ਕਬੀਰ! ਮੈਂ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਚੇਤਾ ਕਰਾਂਦਾ ਹਾਂ**, **ਮਤਾਂ ਫਿਰ ਗੁਮਰ ਰਹਿ ਜਾਈ**; **ਜੋ ਭੋਗ ਹੁਣ ਤਾਈਂ* *ਤੂੰ ਭੋਗੇ ਹਨ (ਮਤਾਂ ਸਮਝੇਂ ਕਿ ਤੂੰ ਬੜੀਆਂ ਮੌਜਾਂ ਮਾਣ ਲਈਆਂ ਹਨ**, **ਅਸਲ ਵਿਚ) ਇਹਨਾਂ* *ਦੀ ਪਾਂਇਆਂ ਇਤਨੀ ਕੁ ਹੀ ਹੈ (ਜਿਵੇਂ ਕਿਸੇ ਹੱਟੀ ਤੋਂ ਸੌਦਾ ਲੈ ਕੇ ਝੂੰਗੇ ਵਜੋਂ) ਰਤਾ* *ਕੁ ਗੁੜ ਲੈ ਕੇ ਖਾ ਲਏਂ**।**੪੪**। *


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## Tejwant Singh

Great interpretation by Gyani ji and Pk70 ji.

Allow me to add my 2 cent worth.

The main idea of these saloks are about how one ruins oneself whiledwelling in Me-ism. Kabir ji telling people of that time who led their lives only thinking about themselves and spent their lives without even trying to find connection with Ik Ong Kaar. It was not in their value system.

As mentioned before, most of the english transliterations are incorrect and distort the true meaning of this beautiful Gurbani. Sant Singh Khalsa's is the worst of all.

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰ


> ਕਬੀਰ ਲੂਟਨਾ ਹੈ ਤ ਲੂਟਿ ਲੈ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਹੈ ਲੂਟਿ ॥
> कबीर लूटना है त लूटि लै राम नाम है लूटि ॥
> Kabīr lūtnā hai ṯa lūt lai rām nām hai lūt.
> Kabeer, if you must rob and plunder, then plunder the plunder of the Lord's Name.


 
Here Kabir is talking in a tongue and cheek way to the merchants which were Hindus and Muslims who used to charge too much for their merchandise to the needy.

He is saying that if you merchants want to plunder, loot and take advantage of others for this transistory profit that you make and put in your pockets, then "loot" and "plunder" the ONE -IK ONG KAAR-who has everything. This is the only way to get the "true profit".

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਫਿਰਿ


> ਫਿਰਿ ਪਾਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਹੁਗੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਜਾਹਿੰਗੇ ਛੂਟਿ ॥੪੧॥
> फिरि पाछै पछुताहुगे प्रान जाहिंगे छूटि ॥४१॥
> Fir pācẖẖai pacẖẖuṯāhuge parān jāhinge cẖẖūt. ||41||
> Otherwise, in the world hereafter, you will regret and repent, when the breath of life leaves the body. ||41||


 
The above is the best example of the creditcard and housing crisis the world is going through. Once you have sold your merchandise and then if the debtors can not pay you back then you can not even recuperate your costs. So it will be no good to regret or repent later on because your intention and your business operandi was to loot them. Hence "loot" the INFINITE which will never make your regret of your actions.

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰ


> ਕਬੀਰ ਐਸਾ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਜਨਮਿਓ ਅਪਨੈ ਘਰਿ ਲਾਵੈ ਆਗਿ ॥
> कबीर ऐसा कोई न जनमिओ अपनै घरि लावै आगि ॥
> Kabīr aisā ko▫ī na janmi▫o apnai gẖar lāvai āg.
> Kabeer, there is no one born, who burns his own home,


 
Using the same metaphor as greedy merchants, Kabir ji is showing them that how their modus operandi for plundering the innocent, the poor and the needy is going to backfire. So whatever thought process you have used to loot the poor, the end result is that you will end up being the only loser when they are not able to pay their debts. When you started this business you never thought that it will come back and haunt you because of your greed. In other words," People do not plan to fail but fail to plan". You never thought that you had to close this business because of the non payments by the debtors. It is like burning your own home that you built by looting the innocent. He elaborates it further in the following salok.

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪਾਂਚਉ


> ਪਾਂਚਉ ਲਰਿਕਾ ਜਾਰਿ ਕੈ ਰਹੈ ਰਾਮ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗਿ ॥੪੨॥
> पांचउ लरिका जारि कै रहै राम लिव लागि ॥४२॥
> Pāŉcẖa▫o larikā jār kai rahai rām liv lāg. ||42||
> and burning his five sons, remains lovingly attuned to the Lord. ||42||


 
This is a wonderful poetry and what a great simile! The above salok shows how we cling to Maya and cultivate it as if it were our own family,created,raised, nurtured and educated by us. 

You have created,cultivated and nurtured your "5 children" 'Kaam,krodh, lobh,moh, Hankaar'.You can only get rid of them by finding your connection with IK ONG KAAR. Then only through this connection, your "5 children" will eventually die and then you can cremate them as their "last rites" so you are able to get rid of them forever and by doing this they will never come back. Here again the subliminal message can also be derived that in Sikhi once dead, it is sayonara. No reincarnation.

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੋ


> ਕੋ ਹੈ ਲਰਿਕਾ ਬੇਚਈ ਲਰਿਕੀ ਬੇਚੈ ਕੋਇ ॥
> को है लरिका बेचई लरिकी बेचै कोइ ॥
> Ko hai larikā becẖ▫ī larikī becẖai ko▫e.
> Kabeer, how rare are those who sell their son and sell their daughter
> 
> ਸਾਝਾ ਕਰੈ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਿਉ ਹਰਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਬਨਜੁ ਕਰੇਇ ॥੪੩॥
> साझा करै कबीर सिउ हरि संगि बनजु करेइ ॥४३॥
> Sājẖā karai Kabīr si▫o har sang banaj kare▫i. ||43||
> and, entering into partnership with Kabeer, deal with the Lord. ||43||


 
I am using the above Salok together because it re-emphasises the same thought process which is in the previous ones. 

Here Kabir ji is talking about having children and treating them as part of business. 

Some "sell" their sons to rake in money from those who have daughters by bringing in dowries and some "sell" their daughters as prostitutes to make money. 

These partnerships are all business transcations of Maya to all of them which are transistory and end up being disasterous business transactions because they are nothing but scams. 

Bernie Maddoff who looted $50billion comes to mind here.

So, hey merchant of Maya, seek the true partnership, the one Kabir has found and this true partner does not mind being "looted". To the contrary. And this true partner is IK ONG KAAR.

Tejwant Singh


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## spnadmin

VaheguruSeekr said:


> Great interpretation by Gyani ji and Pk70 ji.
> 
> Allow me to add my 2 cent worth.
> 
> The main idea of these saloks are about how one ruins oneself whiledwelling in Me-ism. Kabir ji telling people of that time who led their lives only thinking about themselves and spent their lives without even trying to find connection with Ik Ong Kaar. It was not in their value system.
> 
> As mentioned before, most of the english transliterations are incorcect and distort the trut meaning of this beautiful Gurbani. Sant Singh Khalsa's is the worst of all.
> 
> 
> 
> Here Kabir is talking in a tongue and cheek way to the merchants which were Hindus and Muslims who used to charge too much for their merchandise to the needy.
> 
> He is saying that if you merchants want to plunder, loot and take advantage of others for this transistory profit that you make and put in your pockets, then "loot" and "plunder" the ONE -IK ONG KAAR-who has everything. This is the only way to get the "true profit".
> 
> 
> 
> The above is the best example of the creditcard and housing crisis the world is going through. Once you have sold your merchandise and then if the debtors can not pay you back then you can not even recuperate your costs. So it will be no good to regret or repent later on because your intention and your business operandi was to loot them. Hence "loot" the INFINITE which will never make your regret of your actions.
> 
> 
> 
> Using the same metaphor as greedy merchants, Kabir ji is showing them that how their modus operandi for plundering the innocent, the poor and the needy is going to backfire. So whatever thought process you have used to loot the poor, the end result is that you will end up being the only loser when they are not able to pay their debts. When you started this business you never thought that it will come back and haunt you because of your greed. In other words," People do not plan to fail but fail to plan". You never thought that you had to close this business because of the non payments by the debtors. It is like burning your own home that you built by looting the innocent. He elaborates it further in the following salok.
> 
> 
> 
> This is a wonderful poetry and what a great simile! The above salok shows how we cling to Maya and cultivate it as if it were our own family,created,raised, nurtured and educated by us.
> 
> You have created,cultivated and nurtured your "5 children" 'Kaam,krodh, lobh,moh, Hankaar'.You can only get rid of them by finding your connection with IK ONG KAAR. Then only through this connection, your "5 children" will eventually die and then you can cremate them as their "last rites" so you are able to get rid of them forever and by doing this they will never come back. Here again the subliminal message can also be derived that in Sikhi once dead, it is sayonara. No reincarnation.
> 
> 
> 
> I am using the above Salok together because it re-emphasises the same thought process which is in the previous ones.
> 
> Here Kabir ji is talking about having children and treating them as part of business.
> 
> Some "sell" their sons to rake in money from those who have daughters by bringing in dowries and some "sell" their daughters as prostitutes to make money.
> 
> These partnerships are all business transcations of Maya to all of them which are transistory and end up being disasterous business transactions because they are nothing but scams.
> 
> Bernie Maddoff who looted $50billion comes to mind here.
> 
> So, hey merchant of Maya, seek the true partnership, the one Kabir has found and this true partner does not mind being "looted". To ther contrary. And this true partner is IK ONG KAAR.
> 
> Tejwant Singh



Tejwant ji

In my humble and untutored opinion, you have mentioned important issues. For example, the image of selling sons and daughters is important to the understanding of Kabir's poetry. Because we are reading Bani --  of course there is a spiritual plane of understanding that must be understood for fuller vichaar of the selokas. The abuse of sons and daughters--- these are metaphors for the crass nature that stands in the way of God consciousness and sustains our veil of illusion. 

However, in reading Kabir one must also be aware of how his poetry has been magnetic for centuries. Even when he was alive his contemporaries were drawn to him from many different levels of society. Why? One reason is that Kabir used images from the every-day, familiar situations that his listeners knew intimately. Any and all, rich and poor, educated and uneducated, upon hearing his poetry knew what he was talking about. They had close encounters with the scenes that he depicted. Then and now. You have captured this element -- Kabir's intimacy with his listerners across many generations and cultures. He was able to connect with the human condition and this made his imagery so evocative and powerful. Kabir consistently maps the reality of every day life onto greater consciousness.  Even today Kabir speaks with that same intimacy.


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## Tejwant Singh

aad0002 said:


> Tejwant ji
> 
> In my humble and untutored opinion, you have mentioned important issues. For example, the image of selling sons and daughters is important to the understanding of Kabir's poetry. Because we are reading Bani -- of course there is a spiritual plane of understanding that must be understood for fuller vichaar of the selokas. The abuse of sons and daughters--- these are metaphors for the crass nature that stands in the way of God consciousness and sustains our veil of illusion.
> 
> However, in reading Kabir one must also be aware of how his poetry has been magnetic for centuries. Even when he was alive his contemporaries were drawn to him from many different levels of society. Why? One reason is that Kabir used images from the every-day, familiar situations that his listeners knew intimately. Any and all, rich and poor, educated and uneducated, upon hearing his poetry knew what he was talking about. They had close encounters with the scenes that he depicted. Then and now. You have captured this element -- Kabir's intimacy with his listerners across many generations and cultures. He was able to connect with the human condition and this made his imagery so evocative and powerful. Kabir consistently maps the reality of every day life onto greater consciousness.  Even today Kabir speaks with that same intimacy.


 
Antonia ji,

Guru Fateh.

Well said. The awe factor for me of SGGS is that its reminders act like sharpeners and erasers  for  the pencils and papers which are US. That's why our Gurus tell us and urge  us to study Nitnem daily not  just cram through it.

Thanks for you great input. You know when my tea needs a bit of more sugar and you always have the sugarpot handy.

Tejwant Singh


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## Astroboy

*ਕਬੀਰ ਐਸਾ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਜਨਮਿਓ ਅਪਨੈ ਘਰਿ ਲਾਵੈ ਆਗਿ **॥ **
ਪਾਂਚਉ ਲਰਿਕਾ ਜਾਰਿ ਕੈ ਰਹੈ ਰਾਮ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗਿ **॥**੪੨**॥

Here's another translation :-
Sri Kabir Ji says rarely (no) such person is born into this world who has touched the fire-like light in his heart (house).
In the fire of Almighty, the 5 sons of passion are burnt, one stays attuned to the Almighty.

 *


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## Astroboy

VaheguruSeekr said:


> Antonia ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> Well said. The awe factor for me of SGGS is that its reminders act like sharpeners and erasers  for  the pencils and papers which are US. That's why our Gurus tell us and urge  us to study Nitnem daily not  just cram through it.
> 
> Thanks for you great input. You know when my tea *needs a bit of more sugar* and you always have the sugarpot handy.
> 
> Tejwant Singh



Tejwant Singh Ji,

How timely that you mentioned about sugar, as you will see how it applies in the following seloks.
 The translations are NOT reliable enough so please dig into other meanings and discuss:-

ਕਬੀਰ  ਇਹ  ਚੇਤਾਵਨੀ  ਮਤ  ਸਹਸਾ  ਰਹਿ  ਜਾਇ  ॥ 
कबीर इह चेतावनी मत सहसा रहि जाइ ॥ 
Kabīr ih cẖeṯāvnī maṯ sahsā rėh jā▫e. 
Kabeer, let me remind you of this. Do not be skeptical or cynical. 

ਪਾਛੈ  ਭੋਗ  ਜੁ  ਭੋਗਵੇ  ਤਿਨ  ਕੋ  ਗੁੜੁ  ਲੈ  ਖਾਹਿ  ॥੪੪॥ 
पाछै भोग जु भोगवे तिन को गुड़ु लै खाहि ॥४४॥ 
Pācẖẖai bẖog jo bẖogve ṯin ko guṛ lai kẖāhi. ||44|| 
Those pleasures which you enjoyed so much in the past - now you must eat their fruits. ||44|| 

ਕਬੀਰ  ਮੈ  ਜਾਨਿਓ  ਪੜਿਬੋ  ਭਲੋ  ਪੜਿਬੇ  ਸਿਉ  ਭਲ  ਜੋਗੁ  ॥ 
कबीर मै जानिओ पड़िबो भलो पड़िबे सिउ भल जोगु ॥ 
Kabīr mai jāni▫o paṛibo bẖalo paṛibe si▫o bẖal jog. 
Kabeer, at first, I thought learning was good; then I thought Yoga was better. 

ਭਗਤਿ  ਨ  ਛਾਡਉ  ਰਾਮ  ਕੀ  ਭਾਵੈ  ਨਿੰਦਉ  ਲੋਗੁ  ॥੪੫॥ 
भगति न छाडउ राम की भावै निंदउ लोगु ॥४५॥ 
Bẖagaṯ na cẖẖāda▫o rām kī bẖāvai ninḏa▫o log. ||45|| 
I shall never abandon devotional worship of the Lord, even though people may slander me. ||45|| 

ਕਬੀਰ  ਲੋਗੁ  ਕਿ  ਨਿੰਦੈ  ਬਪੁੜਾ  ਜਿਹ  ਮਨਿ  ਨਾਹੀ  ਗਿਆਨੁ  ॥ 
कबीर लोगु कि निंदै बपुड़ा जिह मनि नाही गिआनु ॥ 
Kabīr log kė ninḏai bapuṛā jih man nāhī gi▫ān. 
Kabeer, how can the wretched people slander me? They have no wisdom or intelligence. 

ਰਾਮ  ਕਬੀਰਾ  ਰਵਿ  ਰਹੇ  ਅਵਰ  ਤਜੇ  ਸਭ  ਕਾਮ  ॥੪੬॥ 
राम कबीरा रवि रहे अवर तजे सभ काम ॥४६॥ 
Rām kabīrā rav rahe avar ṯaje sabẖ kām. ||46|| 
Kabeer continues to dwell upon the Lord's Name; I have abandoned all other affairs. ||46|| 

ਕਬੀਰ  ਪਰਦੇਸੀ  ਕੈ  ਘਾਘਰੈ  ਚਹੁ  ਦਿਸਿ  ਲਾਗੀ  ਆਗਿ  ॥ 
कबीर परदेसी कै घाघरै चहु दिसि लागी आगि ॥ 
Kabīr parḏesī kai gẖāgẖrai cẖahu ḏis lāgī āg. 
Kabeer, the robe of the stranger-soul has caught fire on all four sides. 

ਖਿੰਥਾ  ਜਲਿ  ਕੋਇਲਾ  ਭਈ  ਤਾਗੇ  ਆਂਚ  ਨ  ਲਾਗ  ॥੪੭॥ 
खिंथा जलि कोइला भई तागे आंच न लाग ॥४७॥ 
Kẖinthā jal ko▫ilā bẖa▫ī ṯāge āŉcẖ na lāg. ||47|| 
The cloth of the body has been burnt and reduced to charcoal, but the fire did not touch the thread of the soul. ||47|| 

ਕਬੀਰ  ਖਿੰਥਾ  ਜਲਿ  ਕੋਇਲਾ  ਭਈ  ਖਾਪਰੁ  ਫੂਟ  ਮਫੂਟ  ॥ 
कबीर खिंथा जलि कोइला भई खापरु फूट मफूट ॥ 
Kabīr kẖinthā jal ko▫ilā bẖa▫ī kẖāpar fūt mafūt. 
Kabeer, the cloth has been burnt and reduced to charcoal, and the begging bowl is shattered into pieces. 

ਜੋਗੀ  ਬਪੁੜਾ  ਖੇਲਿਓ  ਆਸਨਿ  ਰਹੀ  ਬਿਭੂਤਿ  ॥੪੮॥ 
जोगी बपुड़ा खेलिओ आसनि रही बिभूति ॥४८॥ 
Jogī bapuṛā kẖeli▫o āsan rahī bibẖūṯ. ||48|| 
The poor Yogi has played out his game; only ashes remain on his seat. ||48||


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਇਹ  ਚੇਤਾਵਨੀ  ਮਤ  ਸਹਸਾ  ਰਹਿ  ਜਾਇ  ॥ 
Kabīr ih cẖeṯāvnī maṯ sahsā rėh jā▫e. 
Kabeer, let me remind you of this. Do not be skeptical or cynical. 

ਪਾਛੈ  ਭੋਗ  ਜੁ  ਭੋਗਵੇ  ਤਿਨ  ਕੋ  ਗੁੜੁ  ਲੈ  ਖਾਹਿ  ॥੪੪॥
Pācẖẖai bẖog jo bẖogve ṯin ko guṛ lai kẖāhi. ||44|| 
Previous deed done, you have already exchanged it for the sugar commodity.
Meaning without the Naam, your past good deeds are of no use as they didn't lead you to your goal.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

namjap said:


> ਕਬੀਰ  ਇਹ  ਚੇਤਾਵਨੀ  ਮਤ  ਸਹਸਾ  ਰਹਿ  ਜਾਇ  ॥
> Kabīr ih cẖeṯāvnī maṯ sahsā rėh jā▫e.
> Kabeer, let me remind you of this. Do not be skeptical or cynical.
> 
> ਪਾਛੈ  ਭੋਗ  ਜੁ  ਭੋਗਵੇ  ਤਿਨ  ਕੋ  ਗੁੜੁ  ਲੈ  ਖਾਹਿ  ॥੪੪॥
> Pācẖẖai bẖog jo bẖogve ṯin ko guṛ lai kẖāhi. ||44||
> Previous deed done, you have already exchanged it for the sugar commodity.
> Meaning without the Naam, your past good deeds are of no use as they didn't lead you to your goal.


..

Naam Japp Ji,
Gurfateh.

The "previous deeds" are worth about as much as....... the "gurr" that is given away free by the shopkeeper.
When we buy vegetables from the vendor.....at the end of the transaction...he will usually ...throw in for free a few hareh gabdeh, dhania, or chillies etc.
Similarly i saw "gurr" being given away FREE at the counters of Restaurants etc where the customer pays the bill..... and some sugar stuff/sweets/gurr was also thrown in FREE by the shopkeepers when packing the sundries...

Now to Kabir Ji.... Bhagat Ji is comparing the TWO.... the "original goodies we actually BOUGHT/Paid for.....with the "FREE goodie given away by the clever shopkeeper !!
Kabir Ji says ALL the Bhogs, the actions we did all our LIFE are worth just the "FREE GURR"...the ACTUAL MERCHANDISE we should be interested in is NAAM JAPP !!!


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## pk70

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> ..
> 
> Naam Japp Ji,
> Gurfateh.
> 
> The "previous deeds" are worth about as much as....... the "gurr" that is given away free by the shopkeeper.
> When we buy vegetables from the vendor.....at the end of the transaction...he will usually ...throw in for free a few hareh gabdeh, dhania, or chillies etc.
> Similarly i saw "gurr" being given away FREE at the counters of Restaurants etc where the customer pays the bill..... and some sugar stuff/sweets/gurr was also thrown in FREE by the shopkeepers when packing the sundries...
> 
> Now to Kabir Ji.... Bhagat Ji is comparing the TWO.... the "original goodies we actually BOUGHT/Paid for.....with the "FREE goodie given away by the clever shopkeeper !!
> Kabir Ji says ALL the Bhogs, the actions we did all our LIFE are worth just the "FREE GURR"...the ACTUAL MERCHANDISE we should be interested in is NAAM JAPP !!!



*Absolutely true, all other stuff than Naam Simran is made insignificant, use of Gur is hint towards" loonga" a free thing which is not much in quantity and quality. Thanks Gyani jio
*


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਮੈ  ਜਾਨਿਓ  ਪੜਿਬੋ  ਭਲੋ  ਪੜਿਬੇ  ਸਿਉ  ਭਲ  ਜੋਗੁ  ॥ 
कबीर मै जानिओ पड़िबो भलो पड़िबे सिउ भल जोगु ॥ 
Kabīr mai jāni▫o paṛibo bẖalo paṛibe si▫o bẖal jog. 
Kabeer, at first, I thought learning was good; then I thought Yoga was better. 

ਭਗਤਿ  ਨ  ਛਾਡਉ  ਰਾਮ  ਕੀ  ਭਾਵੈ  ਨਿੰਦਉ  ਲੋਗੁ  ॥੪੫॥ 
भगति न छाडउ राम की भावै निंदउ लोगु ॥४५॥ 
Bẖagaṯ na cẖẖāda▫o rām kī bẖāvai ninḏa▫o log. ||45|| 
I shall never abandon devotional worship of the Lord, even though people may slander me. ||45|| 

ਕਬੀਰ  ਲੋਗੁ  ਕਿ  ਨਿੰਦੈ  ਬਪੁੜਾ  ਜਿਹ  ਮਨਿ  ਨਾਹੀ  ਗਿਆਨੁ  ॥ 
कबीर लोगु कि निंदै बपुड़ा जिह मनि नाही गिआनु ॥ 
Kabīr log kė ninḏai bapuṛā jih man nāhī gi▫ān. 
Kabeer, how can the wretched people slander me? They have no wisdom or intelligence. 

ਰਾਮ  ਕਬੀਰਾ  ਰਵਿ  ਰਹੇ  ਅਵਰ  ਤਜੇ  ਸਭ  ਕਾਮ  ॥੪੬॥ 
राम कबीरा रवि रहे अवर तजे सभ काम ॥४६॥ 
Rām kabīrā rav rahe avar ṯaje sabẖ kām. ||46|| 
Kabeer continues to dwell upon the Lord's Name; I have abandoned all other affairs. ||46|| 

These two seloks talk about slander.
What exactly is the point being made in here ?


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## Tejwant Singh

namjap said:


> ਕਬੀਰ ਇਹ ਚੇਤਾਵਨੀ ਮਤ ਸਹਸਾ ਰਹਿ ਜਾਇ ॥
> Kabīr ih cẖeṯāvnī maṯ sahsā rėh jā▫e.
> Kabeer, let me remind you of this. Do not be skeptical or cynical.
> 
> ਪਾਛੈ ਭੋਗ ਜੁ ਭੋਗਵੇ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਗੁੜੁ ਲੈ ਖਾਹਿ ॥੪੪॥
> Pācẖẖai bẖog jo bẖogve ṯin ko guṛ lai kẖāhi. ||44||
> Previous deed done, you have already exchanged it for the sugar commodity.
> Meaning without the Naam, your past good deeds are of no use as they didn't lead you to your goal.


 
Namjap ji,

Guru Fateh.


Here Kabir ji warns people who make their duties and responsibities as accomplishments and start patting their backs.

Your past deeds are not "The saving bonds" for the furture that you can cash in. They were the "payments to the credit cards" that you had already used before for your goodies.

Tejwant Singh


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## spnadmin

namjap said:


> ਕਬੀਰ  ਮੈ  ਜਾਨਿਓ  ਪੜਿਬੋ  ਭਲੋ  ਪੜਿਬੇ  ਸਿਉ  ਭਲ  ਜੋਗੁ  ॥
> कबीर मै जानिओ पड़िबो भलो पड़िबे सिउ भल जोगु ॥
> Kabīr mai jāni▫o paṛibo bẖalo paṛibe si▫o bẖal jog.
> Kabeer, at first, I thought learning was good; then I thought Yoga was better.
> 
> ਭਗਤਿ  ਨ  ਛਾਡਉ  ਰਾਮ  ਕੀ  ਭਾਵੈ  ਨਿੰਦਉ  ਲੋਗੁ  ॥੪੫॥
> भगति न छाडउ राम की भावै निंदउ लोगु ॥४५॥
> Bẖagaṯ na cẖẖāda▫o rām kī bẖāvai ninḏa▫o log. ||45||
> I shall never abandon devotional worship of the Lord, even though people may slander me. ||45||
> 
> ਕਬੀਰ  ਲੋਗੁ  ਕਿ  ਨਿੰਦੈ  ਬਪੁੜਾ  ਜਿਹ  ਮਨਿ  ਨਾਹੀ  ਗਿਆਨੁ  ॥
> कबीर लोगु कि निंदै बपुड़ा जिह मनि नाही गिआनु ॥
> Kabīr log kė ninḏai bapuṛā jih man nāhī gi▫ān.
> Kabeer, how can the wretched people slander me? They have no wisdom or intelligence.
> 
> ਰਾਮ  ਕਬੀਰਾ  ਰਵਿ  ਰਹੇ  ਅਵਰ  ਤਜੇ  ਸਭ  ਕਾਮ  ॥੪੬॥
> राम कबीरा रवि रहे अवर तजे सभ काम ॥४६॥
> Rām kabīrā rav rahe avar ṯaje sabẖ kām. ||46||
> Kabeer continues to dwell upon the Lord's Name; I have abandoned all other affairs. ||46||
> 
> These two seloks talk about slander.
> What exactly is the point being made in here ?



Kabir ji was speaking about his own experience. Like Guru Nanak he found no truth in the dogmatism of the Hindu Brahmin nor in the rigid practice of Islam. Instead he tried, again like Guru Nanak, to find a common truth. Ultimately, close to age 60 he was brought before officials and denounced as a heretic. We should remember however that there is very little by way of historical documentation regarding Kabir's life and much legend. Here is the account that is often given of the slander against him. 

_[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Although Kabir labored to bring the often clashing religious cultures of Islam and Hinduism together, he was equally disdainful of professional piety in any form. This earned him the hatred and persecution of the religious authorities in Varanasi. Nearing age 60, he was denounced before the king but, because of his Muslim birth, he was spared execution and, instead, banished from the region.[/FONT]_ Kabir : Poems and Biography

In my opinion, Kabir is telling us that those who are morally and intellectually corrupt are incapable of slandering one whose depth of devotion is only to the Naam.


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## Astroboy

> In my opinion, Kabir is telling us that those who are morally and intellectually corrupt are incapable of slandering one whose depth of devotion is only to the Naam.



Slandering itself belongs to those who do not know true devotion. 

Slandering others is putting the filth of others into your own mouth. 
*Guru Nanak Dev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਪਰਦੇਸੀ  ਕੈ  ਘਾਘਰੈ  ਚਹੁ  ਦਿਸਿ  ਲਾਗੀ  ਆਗਿ  ॥ 
कबीर परदेसी कै घाघरै चहु दिसि लागी आगि ॥ 
Kabīr parḏesī kai gẖāgẖrai cẖahu ḏis lāgī āg. 
Kabeer, the robe of the stranger-soul has caught fire on all four sides. 

ਖਿੰਥਾ  ਜਲਿ  ਕੋਇਲਾ  ਭਈ  ਤਾਗੇ  ਆਂਚ  ਨ  ਲਾਗ  ॥੪੭॥ 
खिंथा जलि कोइला भई तागे आंच न लाग ॥४७॥ 
Kẖinthā jal ko▫ilā bẖa▫ī ṯāge āŉcẖ na lāg. ||47|| 
The cloth of the body has been burnt and reduced to charcoal, but the fire did not touch the thread of the soul. ||47|| 

ਕਬੀਰ  ਖਿੰਥਾ  ਜਲਿ  ਕੋਇਲਾ  ਭਈ  ਖਾਪਰੁ  ਫੂਟ  ਮਫੂਟ  ॥ 
कबीर खिंथा जलि कोइला भई खापरु फूट मफूट ॥ 
Kabīr kẖinthā jal ko▫ilā bẖa▫ī kẖāpar fūt mafūt. 
Kabeer, the cloth has been burnt and reduced to charcoal, and the begging bowl is shattered into pieces. 

ਜੋਗੀ  ਬਪੁੜਾ  ਖੇਲਿਓ  ਆਸਨਿ  ਰਹੀ  ਬਿਭੂਤਿ  ॥੪੮॥ 
जोगी बपुड़ा खेलिओ आसनि रही बिभूति ॥४८॥ 
Jogī bapuṛā kẖeli▫o āsan rahī bibẖūṯ. ||48|| 
The poor Yogi has played out his game; only ashes remain on his seat. ||48||


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## spnadmin

namjap said:


> ਕਬੀਰ  ਪਰਦੇਸੀ  ਕੈ  ਘਾਘਰੈ  ਚਹੁ  ਦਿਸਿ  ਲਾਗੀ  ਆਗਿ  ॥
> कबीर परदेसी कै घाघरै चहु दिसि लागी आगि ॥
> Kabīr parḏesī kai gẖāgẖrai cẖahu ḏis lāgī āg.
> Kabeer, the robe of the stranger-soul has caught fire on all four sides.
> 
> ਖਿੰਥਾ  ਜਲਿ  ਕੋਇਲਾ  ਭਈ  ਤਾਗੇ  ਆਂਚ  ਨ  ਲਾਗ  ॥੪੭॥
> खिंथा जलि कोइला भई तागे आंच न लाग ॥४७॥
> Kẖinthā jal ko▫ilā bẖa▫ī ṯāge āŉcẖ na lāg. ||47||
> The cloth of the body has been burnt and reduced to charcoal, but the fire did not touch the thread of the soul. ||47||
> 
> ਕਬੀਰ  ਖਿੰਥਾ  ਜਲਿ  ਕੋਇਲਾ  ਭਈ  ਖਾਪਰੁ  ਫੂਟ  ਮਫੂਟ  ॥
> कबीर खिंथा जलि कोइला भई खापरु फूट मफूट ॥
> Kabīr kẖinthā jal ko▫ilā bẖa▫ī kẖāpar fūt mafūt.
> Kabeer, the cloth has been burnt and reduced to charcoal, and the begging bowl is shattered into pieces.
> 
> ਜੋਗੀ  ਬਪੁੜਾ  ਖੇਲਿਓ  ਆਸਨਿ  ਰਹੀ  ਬਿਭੂਤਿ  ॥੪੮॥
> जोगी बपुड़ा खेलिओ आसनि रही बिभूति ॥४८॥
> Jogī bapuṛā kẖeli▫o āsan rahī bibẖūṯ. ||48||
> The poor Yogi has played out his game; only ashes remain on his seat. ||48||



"The robe of the stranger-soul:" The robe is the flesh, muscle and bone -- this can also mean the false ego or false self which entangles us in avidya, or ignorance of the true self. As long as we persist in attachment to products of our own thinking, our soul remains a stranger. We are estranged from our true identity. But when the robe is burnt the soul is untouched, unharmed. The soul is immortal, durable and pure. The soul can join with What is Great (Al Kabir).  

There is a repeated metaphor of a thread that weaves through the soul, joins the soul to What is Great (making a jug with something better than the pretentiousness of our false self) because "the fire did not touch the thread of the soul."

The begging bowl is the sign of the humility of the Yogi. But Kabir is telling us that this begging bowl describes the pretense and self-delusion of the Yogi. The Yogi's identity or false self is all tied up in the image of poverty, humility and renunciation. But to what end? The Yogi will also die, leaving a pile of ashes where he sits. And what seat is that? The seat from which the sadhus would preach to others, even while they were entangled in their own avidya and delusions. The yogi dies and all of his samskara (mental formations, habits, and experiences) attach to him regardless. There is a better way.

Some notes: George Wescott, a fellow of Allahabad University, relates in 1907 that Kabir himself believed that meditation of the Naam was the only path to release from the cycle of life and death. At the time of his arrest at the age of 60 the Qazi (Sheik Taqqi) accused him of claiming to have Divine powers. Brahmins  accused him of defying sacred traditions. When the emperor Jodhan banished Kabir rather than having him executed for heresy, the same Brahmins may have tried to burn him alive in a hut (the robe of the stranger-soul has caught fire on all four sides). The yogi he speaks of may have been Gorath Nath who was the founder of the Nath yogi sect (The poor Yogi has played out his game).


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## Tejwant Singh

> ਕਬੀਰ ਮੈ ਜਾਨਿਓ ਪੜਿਬੋ ਭਲੋ ਪੜਿਬੇ ਸਿਉ ਭਲ ਜੋਗੁ ॥
> कबीर मै जानिओ पड़िबो भलो पड़िबे सिउ भल जोगु ॥
> Kabīr mai jāni▫o paṛibo bẖalo paṛibe si▫o bẖal jog.
> Kabeer, at first, I thought learning was good; then I thought Yoga was better.


 
 

Namjap ji


Guru Fateh.

Once again the transliteration is an insult to this poetry as we have discussed before. The reason I like to repeat this as often as possible is so that the respective readers can delve deeper into Gurbani through other ways. Those who know Punjabi can check Prof. Sahib Singh's tikka on the internet.

In these saloks, in my opinion Kabir ji is talking about the difference between knowledge and wisdom.

In our Indian culture we have tons of people who tell us what we should do. They do not do practice the same but it makes them feel superior just to preach Manmat, perhaps. It is the ego stroking thing which is deeply rooted in the Indian culture. In other words there are more preachers than practitioners. Or putting it into the Native American term- More Chiefs than the Indians.

Kabir ji says that in the beginning I thought cramming the books will be a good thing to be attuned with IK Ong Kaar. Guru Nanak tells us the same in Japji "Sehan syanapah lakh hoi, Ik nah chalei naal" And we as humans claim that knowledge makes us clever which is a great thing to impress others but little do we know that Gurbani is the catalyst that converts knowledge into wisdom so we can really find the connection. It is no good having a halogen lamp in the hand without any connection to the power outlet.

We all know that learning ( as the transliteration would indicate) is not bad at all, to the contrary hence we are called Sikhs- Students- Learners.

Then someone preached to do yoga by turning your body into a pretzel which will make you attuned with Ik Ong Kaar.




> ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਛਾਡਉ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਭਾਵੈ ਨਿੰਦਉ ਲੋਗੁ ॥੪੫॥
> भगति न छाडउ राम की भावै निंदउ लोगु ॥४५॥
> Bẖagaṯ na cẖẖāda▫o rām kī bẖāvai ninḏa▫o log. ||45||
> I shall never abandon devotional worship of the Lord, even
> though people may slander me. ||45||


 
In the above Kabir ji shows us that he has found the true answer to be attuned with Ik Ong Kaar through Sadh sangat which can only lead to wisdom and the connection with THE ONE.

Allow me to elaborate this a bit further. People who tell us what to do- the preachers of Maya- get easily offended if things are not done in their way. When we ignore them, at times they become abusive and start slandering . This is a deep rooted flaw in the Indian culture which still mars us even today. 

Connection with Ik Ong kaar is all about love which motivates us, inspires us and becomes the spring board for us to soar to the horizons of goodness with the help of Gurmat winds.

Here Kabir ji is saying and putting it bluntly," I give a damn about those who want me to follow them for their own gain no matter how much they talk ill about me because I have found the real connection".

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾ


> ਕਬੀਰ ਲੋਗੁ ਕਿ ਨਿੰਦੈ ਬਪੁੜਾ ਜਿਹ ਮਨਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾ
> कबीर लोगु कि निंदै बपुड़ा जिह मनि नाही गिआनु ॥
> Kabīr log kė ninḏai bapuṛā jih man nāhī gi▫ān.
> Kabeer, how can the wretched people slander me? They have no wisdom or intelligence.
> ਰਾਮ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਅਵਰ ਤਜੇ ਸਭ ਕਾਮ ॥੪੬॥http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾ
> राम कबीरा रवि रहे अवर तजे सभ काम ॥४६॥
> Rām kabīrā rav rahe avar ṯaje sabẖ kām. ||46||
> Kabeer continues to dwell upon the Lord's Name; I have abandoned all other affairs. ||46||
> http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾ


http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰ

In the above Kabir ji shows the result of having found the connection with Ik Ong Kaar and how he shows his inspiration, motivation and self confidence, the weapons he garnered through the connection to combat against the arrows lanced by those with knowledge sans wisdom.

One should not forget to realise that these kind of slanderers also dwell within- kaam,krodh,lobh,moh hankaar.

The beauty about the poetic Gurbani is that it is written in such a way where we can introspect- talk to ourselves, ask questions and then find the answers.

Gurbani breeds introspection which breeds awarness- realisation- understanding and last but not the least acceptance. Modern psychology calls this the leap towards freedom and we all know how new the modern psychology is. 

So in the above Salok Kabir ji has shown the result of the connection. He has shown us that only by finding the connection with Ik Ong kaar, one can shield oneself from the negative forces which may be within or around us.

So Namjap ji, this is the way I see these 2 Saloks, it is not about the slanderers but about us and how we can rise above the negative forces.

Others may see them differently which I would love them to share with us.

Input from all would be highly appreciated.

Thanks & Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Tejwant Singh

namjap said:


> ਕਬੀਰ ਮੈ ਜਾਨਿਓ ਪੜਿਬੋ ਭਲੋ ਪੜਿਬੇ ਸਿਉ ਭਲ ਜੋਗੁ ॥
> कबीर मै जानिओ पड़िबो भलो पड़िबे सिउ भल जोगु ॥
> Kabīr mai jāni▫o paṛibo bẖalo paṛibe si▫o bẖal jog.
> Kabeer, at first, I thought learning was good; then I thought Yoga was better.
> 
> ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਛਾਡਉ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਭਾਵੈ ਨਿੰਦਉ ਲੋਗੁ ॥੪੫॥
> भगति न छाडउ राम की भावै निंदउ लोगु ॥४५॥
> Bẖagaṯ na cẖẖāda▫o rām kī bẖāvai ninḏa▫o log. ||45||
> I shall never abandon devotional worship of the Lord, even though people may slander me. ||45||
> 
> ਕਬੀਰ ਲੋਗੁ ਕਿ ਨਿੰਦੈ ਬਪੁੜਾ ਜਿਹ ਮਨਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥
> कबीर लोगु कि निंदै बपुड़ा जिह मनि नाही गिआनु ॥
> Kabīr log kė ninḏai bapuṛā jih man nāhī gi▫ān.
> Kabeer, how can the wretched people slander me? They have no wisdom or intelligence.
> 
> ਰਾਮ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਅਵਰ ਤਜੇ ਸਭ ਕਾਮ ॥੪੬॥
> राम कबीरा रवि रहे अवर तजे सभ काम ॥४६॥
> Rām kabīrā rav rahe avar ṯaje sabẖ kām. ||46||
> Kabeer continues to dwell upon the Lord's Name; I have abandoned all other affairs. ||46||
> 
> These two seloks talk about slander.
> What exactly is the point being made in here ?


 


aad0002 said:


> "The robe of the stranger-soul:" The robe is the flesh, muscle and bone -- this can also mean the false ego or false self which entangles us in avidya, or ignorance of the true self. As long as we persist in attachment to products of our own thinking, our soul remains a stranger. We are estranged from our true identity. But when the robe is burnt the soul is untouched, unharmed. The soul is immortal, durable and pure. The soul can join with What is Great (Al Kabir).
> 
> There is a repeated metaphor of a thread that weaves through the soul, joins the soul to What is Great (making a jug with something better than the pretentiousness of our false self) because "the fire did not touch the thread of the soul."
> 
> The begging bowl is the sign of the humility of the Yogi. But Kabir is telling us that this begging bowl describes the pretense and self-delusion of the Yogi. The Yogi's identity or false self is all tied up in the image of poverty, humility and renunciation. But to what end? The Yogi will also die, leaving a pile of ashes where he sits. And what seat is that? The seat from which the sadhus would preach to others, even while they were entangled in their own avidya and delusions. The yogi dies and all of his samskara (mental formations, habits, and experiences) attach to him regardless. There is a better way.
> 
> Some notes: George Wescott, a fellow of Allahabad University, relates in 1907 that Kabir himself believed that meditation of the Naam was the only path to release from the cycle of life and death. At the time of his arrest at the age of 60 the Qazi (Sheik Taqqi) accused him of claiming to have Divine powers. Brahmins accused him of defying sacred traditions. When the emperor Jodhan banished Kabir rather than having him executed for heresy, the same Brahmins may have tried to burn him alive in a hut (the robe of the stranger-soul has caught fire on all four sides). The yogi he speaks of may have been Gorath Nath who was the founder of the Nath yogi sect (The poor Yogi has played out his game).


 
Antonia ji,

Guru Fateh.

You have put it very beautifully. You have captured the metaphors perfectly and created a Gurmat Phoenix out of the ashes.

Thank you for sharing your insights from the intellect of your  heart.

Tejwant Singh


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## spnadmin

Tejwant ji

The conversation is good, even exciting as we find ways to weave together our reactions to these salokas. You are right when you say -- I think I have this right -- that first the bhagat speaks to something within us and that will trigger our reflection. Within we tie the shabad to our inner experience. With that we see how the Guru works his intelligence into lives and we become a sangat. Thank you.


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## pk70

aad0002 said:


> "The robe of the stranger-soul:" The robe is the flesh, muscle and bone -- this can also mean the false ego or false self which entangles us in avidya, or ignorance of the true self. As long as we persist in attachment to products of our own thinking, our soul remains a stranger. We are estranged from our true identity. But when the robe is burnt the soul is untouched, unharmed. The soul is immortal, durable and pure. The soul can join with What is Great (Al Kabir).
> 
> There is a repeated metaphor of a thread that weaves through the soul, joins the soul to What is Great (making a jug with something better than the pretentiousness of our false self) because "the fire did not touch the thread of the soul."
> 
> The begging bowl is the sign of the humility of the Yogi. But Kabir is telling us that this begging bowl describes the pretense and self-delusion of the Yogi. The Yogi's identity or false self is all tied up in the image of poverty, humility and renunciation. But to what end? The Yogi will also die, leaving a pile of ashes where he sits. And what seat is that? The seat from which the sadhus would preach to others, even while they were entangled in their own avidya and delusions. The yogi dies and all of his samskara (mental formations, habits, and experiences) attach to him regardless. There is a better way.
> 
> Some notes: George Wescott, a fellow of Allahabad University, relates in 1907 that Kabir himself believed that meditation of the Naam was the only path to release from the cycle of life and death. At the time of his arrest at the age of 60 the Qazi (Sheik Taqqi) accused him of claiming to have Divine powers. Brahmins  accused him of defying sacred traditions. When the emperor Jodhan banished Kabir rather than having him executed for heresy, the same Brahmins may have tried to burn him alive in a hut (the robe of the stranger-soul has caught fire on all four sides). The yogi he speaks of may have been Gorath Nath who was the founder of the Nath yogi sect (The poor Yogi has played out his game).



*Respected aad Bhain jio*

*Doubtlessly you have expressed the idea of Kabir ji that went beyond the words’ limitations.It is very good insight. Going to comprehend words all metaphors and their application is not that easy. Thanks*
* These slokas are wrapped in metaphors; many fail to figure out actually what he is meant to say. No interpreter could satisfy me to day date. My concern is if he only talks about the body and the soul or he also intends to address a Yogi as well to apply his idea pursued in the first sloka?  Both Slokas are very much centered at the body, its acts forced to do by the mind, their reactions and the limited life span that ends eventually.*
*What is this fire? It must be the fire ignited by five primal forces, these are the ones that force the mind to run to all directions,  this act of the mind gets a name by the enlightened one, that is “ pardesi”.   Pardesi is quite often used in Sree Guru Granth Sahib for a mind who is out in pursuit of Maya and its lures than staying within to realize the Creator; . Some time it’s also interpreted as a guest on this earth for limited time.*

*Fire is on the body of those who are gone astray; this fire keeps consuming the body but the soul (thread=soul that keeps body alive) actually departs at the end leaving behind the body that suffered just because of its command. Here Kabir ji sets a plat form for the Yogi who is not aware of it as being lost in his own ego.*
*In the next Sloka the word” kheleo” is important; it indicates the end of life span given to Yogi and what he did to it. All things dear to the Yogi , couldn’t be of any use, in the end, the place where he preached his mission ended in worthlessness(Ash) because whom he preached couldn’t unite with the Lord. So what is the whole point? Living while under the influence of primal forces, search for the Creator ends up futile and life is wasted. Its not even inspirational for others to unite with Him.*
*So what will happen to those who have done efforts to over come primal forces to stay within to realize the Lord (and eventually have)? Their bodies will not suffer and the mind that causes to execute the acts that bring fire of miseries will be actually stilled to realize Him, their Teachings will be eternal to inspire millions to tread on right path in the future.*
*My humble views with a statement that due to use of a lot of metaphors in these Solokas, we prone to mistakes while interpreting them, forgive me for that, and I am not posting my views here in any kind of disagreement with your beautiful expression.*


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## spnadmin

pk70 ji

Your vichaar is extremely valuable because it adds another layer. The layer where evil and purity collide. It helps fill in the total understanding of the salokas.

Here is why I am confident about the first paragraph in my response. Kabir believed that the body was insignificant, almost nothing, in comparison to the beauty of the soul. He saw the soul as pure and immortal, complete as it is. The great tragedy or catastrophe of human life perhaps was to ignore the longing of the soul for jug or union with Who is Great! The life of a human has one purpose for Kabir, and that is to enshrine the Naam, which is Sat, it is whole and pure. 

That is how I get to my sense of the underlying meaning of the first saloka, and one that follows. In the Kabirpanthi both Hindus and Muslims can be found. In the Kabirpanthi one can be cremated or buried after death. The body is so unimportant, that its means of disposal are also unimportant. Guruji says, Enshrine the Naam within your heart. This is also Kabir's message. Everything else is samskara, pretentiousness.

I read the book by Wescott (actually the first chapter only) after I wrote my response. Then I was comfortable with my response. I am estranged from my soul by delusions of mind. Even the Yogi who believes in his 4 paths, or 8 paths, or however many paths, is preaching from his cot in a state of delusion. There is only one path -- there is only one yoga -- that is weaving the Sat Who is Great into each and every heart.


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## pk70

* aad Bhsin jio
I wish if all Sikhs keep this vital and dominating idea of Gurmat in mind while figuring out application of Gurbani ! I am confident hundred percent that no one can then wrap us in small deras or groups Thanks again*


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## Astroboy

Academy's book's explanation :
Gurbani Contemplation - Selok Bhagat Kabirji | Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy Malaysia - Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy Malaysia

Selok #47
Sri Kabir Ji says, the human body, like a long skirt, has caught fire on all the
 4 sides (North, East, South, West). The physical body, like a tattered blanket, 
has burnt to ashes but the fire does not touch nor heat the real-self (Atma) form
of thread.

Selok # 48
Sri Kabir Ji says that the 5 elements made the body like a begging bowl and
the Yogi (human residing in it) thinks it as unbreakable, 
but break it does and turns into ashes.


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## spnadmin

NamJap ji

Yes. The 4 sides are North, South, East and West. The body is burnt but the soul is not harmed or destroyed. And the true self is Atma. At a very spiritual level, Kabir is talking about weaving jeevatma and paramatma together. But how he tells this truth is disarming and very personal.


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## spnadmin

Hope I am getting this right? These would be the next 3 salokas (49-51). I am posting them so that they are up here for discussion. 

ਕਬੀਰ ਥੋਰੈ ਜਲਿ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਝੀਵਰਿ ਮੇਲਿਓ ਜਾਲੁ ॥
kabeer thhorai jal maashhulee jheevar maeliou jaal ||
Kabeer, the fish is in the shallow water; the fisherman has cast his net.


ਇਹ ਟੋਘਨੈ ਨ ਛੂਟਸਹਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਸਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਲਿ ॥੪੯॥
eih ttoghanai n shhoottasehi fir kar samundh samhaal ||49||
You shall not escape this little pool; think about returning to the ocean. ||49||


ਕਬੀਰ ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਨ ਛੋਡੀਐ ਜਉ ਅਤਿ ਖਾਰੋ ਹੋਇ ॥
kabeer samundh n shhoddeeai jo ath khaaro hoe ||
Kabeer, do not leave the ocean, even if it is very salty.


ਪੋਖਰਿ ਪੋਖਰਿ ਢੂਢਤੇ ਭਲੋ ਨ ਕਹਿਹੈ ਕੋਇ ॥੫੦॥
pokhar pokhar dtoodtathae bhalo n kehihai koe ||50||
If you poke around searching from puddle to puddle, no one will call you smart. ||50||


ਕਬੀਰ ਨਿਗੁਸਾਂਏਂ ਬਹਿ ਗਏ ਥਾਂਘੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥
kabeer nigusaaneaen behi geae thhaanghee naahee koe ||
Kabeer, those who have no guru are washed away. No one can help them.


ਦੀਨ ਗਰੀਬੀ ਆਪੁਨੀ ਕਰਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੫੧॥
dheen gareebee aapunee karathae hoe s hoe ||51||
Be meek and humble; whatever happens is what the Creator Lord does. ||51||


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## spnadmin

Assignment: Salokas 49 through 60


This group of salokas were difficult. The place where I would like to start is with this line because it is the one that I pondered over for a long time. Then we can take it line by line.

ਕਬੀਰ ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਨ ਛੋਡੀਐ ਜਉ ਅਤਿ ਖਾਰੋ ਹੋਇ ॥
kabeer samundh n shhoddeeai jo ath khaaro hoe ||
Kabeer, do not leave the ocean, even if it is very salty.

Kabir is implying that we are already in the ocean, the Divine Ocean, Oneness, though we may not realize this truth. So don’t leave it! What is so important about the ocean? The ocean is vast, it is the seat of creation, it is bigger than a puddle or two puddles, it is deep. The ocean is the source of life, and it is salty – Kabir ji is commenting on how difficult it may be to taste the salt. But salt preserves and purifies. Kabir ji is saying, Don’t leave the ocean even if it is difficult to be there. Don’t leave the ocean because it is the source of life and is purifying and preserving. The ocean – is it a metaphor for Akaal himself, the source of life, the seat of creation, purifier and preserver?  Is Kabir telling us, Do not leave the creator? 

Now one line at a time. 

ਕਬੀਰ ਥੋਰੈ ਜਲਿ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਝੀਵਰਿ ਮੇਲਿਓ ਜਾਲੁ ॥
kabeer thhorai jal maashhulee jheevar maeliou jaal ||
Kabeer, the fish is in the shallow water; the fisherman has cast his net.

When the fish is in shallow water (not the ocean) death waits for the fish. Death comes when the fisherman casts his net. In our ordinary lives we are the fish; we are in shallow water; we have lost our connection with the ocean. Death waits to cast its net. Death is the fisherman.

ਇਹ ਟੋਘਨੈ ਨ ਛੂਟਸਹਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਸਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਲਿ ॥੪੯॥
eih ttoghanai n shhoottasehi fir kar samundh samhaal ||49||
You shall not escape this little pool; think about returning to the ocean. ||49||

In our ordinary lives – the little shallow pool – there is no escape. Death is certain, Kabir already said that. So in the time when we live in the shallow pool we should think about returning, regaining the ocean, regaining the Naam, joining Hari.

ਕਬੀਰ ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਨ ਛੋਡੀਐ ਜਉ ਅਤਿ ਖਾਰੋ ਹੋਇ ॥
kabeer samundh n shhoddeeai jo ath khaaro hoe ||
Kabeer, do not leave the ocean, even if it is very salty.

(see above)

ਪੋਖਰਿ ਪੋਖਰਿ ਢੂਢਤੇ ਭਲੋ ਨ ਕਹਿਹੈ ਕੋਇ ॥੫੦॥
pokhar pokhar dtoodtathae bhalo n kehihai koe ||50||
If you poke around searching from puddle to puddle, no one will call you smart. ||50||

Poking around from puddle to puddle means reincarnation. Switching from one ordinary life in shallow water where the fisherman Death waits to cast his net, to another puddle and another puddle, coming and going from one puddle to the next in the cycle of life and death.

However, I have a problem with the translation “no one will call you smart.” That has to be wrong.  I am not getting it.

ਕਬੀਰ ਨਿਗੁਸਾਂਏਂ ਬਹਿ ਗਏ ਥਾਂਘੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥
kabeer nigusaaneaen behi geae thhaanghee naahee koe ||
Kabeer, those who have no guru are washed away. No one can help them.

Now what happens when we have no Guru?  We remain trapped in shallow water, in puddles. Come the rain and storms we are washed away and no trace of us or our puddle remains.

ਦੀਨ ਗਰੀਬੀ ਆਪੁਨੀ ਕਰਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੫੧॥

dheen gareebee aapunee karathae hoe s hoe ||51||
Be meek and humble; whatever happens is what the Creator Lord does. ||51||

Kabir ji is saying- Submit, surrender to the reality of all of this. Be meek and do not fight the truth. We are in shallow water. The fisherman Death awaits us. We should make an effort to return to the Ocean where we are purified and preserved. When we surrender to faith and devotion, the Divine will work through us. But in the end, whether we return to another puddle and another puddle, or whether we make the final return – to the Ocean – that happens according to the time set for us by Akaal the Creator of Everything.


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## pk70

However, I have a problem with the translation “no one will call you smart.” That has to be wrong.  I am not getting it.(quote aad0002)

*aadBhain jio*

*Please first read the following Saloka carefully again*
*ਕਬੀਰ ਥੋਰੈ ਜਲਿ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਝੀਵਰਿ ਮੇਲਿਓ ਜਾਲੁ **॥ **ਇਹ ਟੋਘਨੈ ਨ ਛੂਟਸਹਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਸਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਲਿ **॥**੪੯**॥ *
*Kabīr thorai jal mācẖẖulī jẖīvar meli▫o jāl. **Ih togẖnai na cẖẖūtsahi fir kar samunḏ samĥāl. ||49||*
*In here Kabir ji hints at thesmall support(small pond=thore jall/toghanai) the fish takes by being in a small pond, and points out to be in the biggest place to be better off. Small pond as a metaphor expresses limitations.*
*The Idea is coming from the above quoted saloka in which Kabir ji talks about a fish whose life support is water, if she remains in the Ocean, her chances to get into the hands of convenient fishermen diminish, even if she enjoys small pond more than the Ocean still she is better of in the Ocean than in the small pond.*
*Now this is the base Kabir ji has built,  then he moves on to say his idea he wants to convey in the first place.*
*ਕਬੀਰ ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਨ ਛੋਡੀਐ ਜਉ ਅਤਿ ਖਾਰੋ ਹੋਇ **॥ **ਪੋਖਰਿ ਪੋਖਰਿ ਢੂਢਤੇ ਭਲੋ ਨ ਕਹਿਹੈ ਕੋਇ **॥**੫੦**॥ *
*Kabīr samunḏ na cẖẖodī▫ai ja▫o aṯ kẖāro ho▫e. **Pokẖar pokẖar dẖūdẖ▫ṯe bẖalo na kahihai ko▫e. ||50|| *
*Kabir, leave thou not the ocean, though it be very saline(not attractive to tastes). **If thou search for shelter from pond to pond, no one shall call thee wise.( again hint is at the limited shelter) * 

*Here Kabir ji is addressing those people who are out there to worship or guidance from every thing handy, he advises them to take support of the Lord who is the biggest one, whose support is not limited like of others; he further checks out their intellect by saying, if one wanders around these established places that still depend upon the Lord, he cannot be called wise. So who is wise then? *
*He seeks the support from the Creator only upon whom all others also depend.*
* My humble views*


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## spnadmin

pk70 ji

I am just pasting this part of your response below:

*he further checks out their intellect by saying, if one wanders around these established places that still depend upon the Lord, he cannot be called wise. So who is wise then? *

Ok - Thank you for your clarification. I don't doubt you are right in your answer. My problem is that the phrase as it is now translated does not convey your meaning either. It does not come across. I am thinking that a more direct translation of ਭਲੋ ਨ ਕਹਿਹੈ ਕੋਇ ॥੫੦॥ bhalo n kehihai koe Would make more sense than "no one will call you smart." Somehow it doesn't fit. Maybe to be clear I mean it doesn't fit the context of the complete saloka. And it is ambiguous. Who is "no one?" Since everyone else in the picture is also deluded, who would be left to call anyone smart along the lines that you just described? Guruju seems to be speaking of a particular kind of inspired intellect -- not just a high IQ. Your interpretation is logical, but I am still puzzled by the translation. How did the translator come up with that wording?


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## pk70

but I am still puzzled by the translation. How did the translator come up with that wording?(quote aad0002)

*aad Bhain jio

These people call them scholars or interpreters, they do this thing all the time, that is why I am convinced Guru Message cannot be translated but be conveyed in essence. Here is another example of a translators' blind fall
* ਗਉੜੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ॥* (SGGS 327)*
Ga▫oṛī Kabīr jī. 
Gauree, Kabeer Jee: 

ਪਿੰਡਿ ਮੂਐ ਜੀਉ ਕਿਹ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਤਾ ॥ 
Pind mū▫ai jī▫o kih gẖar jāṯā. 
When the body dies, where does the soul go? 
*( Note= Is Bhagat Kabir ji talking about after death question or something about right here, it will be decided his next Vakas.)
*
ਸਬਦਿ ਅਤੀਤਿ ਅਨਾਹਦਿ ਰਾਤਾ ॥ 

Sabaḏ aṯīṯ anāhaḏ rāṯā. 
It is absorbed into the untouched, unstruck melody of the Word of the Shabad. 
*(Note: important word “atit [/FONT]*ਅਤੀਤਿ * ” which means immaculate, unattached. What it has to do with after life information? I wonder[/FONT]*?)
*Translator couldn't figure out the meaning of Body in this context because body is not used as body but bodily attachment as per the second Vakas. List goes on.*

 [/FONT]


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## Astroboy

> Since everyone else in the picture is also deluded, who would be left to call anyone smart along the lines that you just described? Guruju seems to be speaking of a particular kind of inspired intellect -- not just a high IQ. Your interpretation is logical, but I am still puzzled by the translation.




Maybe Kabir Ji was speaking to his disciples who were already learning to see from their teacher's point of view. Just like a father would advise his children.


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## Tejwant Singh

Dear Antonia ji,

Guru Fateh.

Please allow me to add my 2 cent worth.

In the following Saloks, Kabir ji is talking about the difference between shallowness, parochial (closed) mindedness which breeds me-ism and open mindedness which leads us to the depths of One-ism and makes us find connection with Ik Ong Kaar. One more thing to keep in mind is that shallow waters, ponds are part of fresh( sweet water) unlike the salt waters of the oceans which are deep. Yes, some may argue that there are little salty ponds on the beach where one can also see the fish. But here Kabir ji is comparing salt water ocean against the fresh water little ponds.




> ਕਬੀਰ ਥੋਰੈ ਜਲਿ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਝੀਵਰਿ ਮੇਲਿਓ ਜਾਲੁ ॥
> kabeer thhorai jal maashhulee jheevar maeliou jaal ||
> Kabeer, the fish is in the shallow water; the fisherman has cast his net.


Here Kabir ji using the metaphor of fish in relation to us. That if we are closed minded/shallow in our thought process, hence not ready to listen to the one who has true wisdom then we dwell in false security which is exposed easily, hence we entice ourselves to get caught in the net of those who perceive our shallowness. Who are those fishermen ready with their nets? False Sadhus that he has talked about in the Saloks before- Derawalas- Snake oil salesmen. The ones you, Antonia ji interpreted so well.




> ਇਹ ਟੋਘਨੈ ਨ ਛੂਟਸਹਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਸਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਲਿ ॥੪੯॥
> eih ttoghanai n shhoottasehi fir kar samundh samhaal ||49||
> You shall not escape this little pool; think about returning to the ocean. ||49||


Kabir ji was a great poet and his similes above show that. We know that by nature the fresh water fish can not survive in the salt water of the ocean and vice versa.Salmon is the only exception which can survive in both.

So here Kabir ji is asking us to become a kind of fish that can survive in the depth of the ocean. In other words become open minded so the fear of the depths of ocean is overcome so you can cope with this world and live the life of Miri-Piri. The open mindedness will make you swim the depths of life and hence take away the fear which you have cultivated in your self made cocoon- small pond. 




> ਕਬੀਰ ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਨ ਛੋਡੀਐ ਜਉ ਅਤਿ ਖਾਰੋ ਹੋਇ ॥
> kabeer samundh n shhoddeeai jo ath khaaro hoe ||
> Kabeer, do not leave the ocean, even if it is very salty.


Once again, let us talk about the laws of nature. Ocean fish can not leave the depths of the salty waters and dwell in fresh water. That is the fact. So now the question arises, what is Kabir ji talking about here? Do not try to run away from your problems. Only by confronting them, you can solve them. Swallow the bitter pill( salt water) if you must. It is the only way to learn.



> ਪੋਖਰਿ ਪੋਖਰਿ ਢੂਢਤੇ ਭਲੋ ਨ ਕਹਿਹੈ ਕੋਇ ॥੫੦॥
> pokhar pokhar dtoodtathae bhalo n kehihai koe ||50||
> If you poke around searching from puddle to puddle, no one will call you smart. ||50||


Here, Kabir comes back to the puddles of shallowness that he talked about in the previous Salok49. No matter how much you wander from puddle to puddle, you will get caught by the fishermen- False teachers- Sadhus-Dera walas- Snakeoil salesmen, no matter how much you try otherwise, hence it is not to your advantage. You will become like a rolling stone that can never gather moss- remain ignorant, immersed in me-ism. 

No one can take our me-ism out of us. It is we who have to make that effort ourselves by the help of a True Guru- teacher that he expands below.




> ਕਬੀਰ ਨਿਗੁਸਾਂਏਂ ਬਹਿ ਗਏ ਥਾਂਘੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥
> kabeer nigusaaneaen behi geae thhaanghee naahee koe ||
> Kabeer, those who have no guru are washed away. No one can help them.


So now the question arises, what tools shall we use in order to take ourselves out of the shallow waters of me-ism because eventually the puddle is going to get dried up, all the water will evaporate and then there is no way to survive?

Here Kabir ji is saying, seek the True Guru- teacher- the one who can train you to explore the depths of salt waters of the ocean- who can teach you to wear the robe of sadness with dignity- remain in Chardi kala-who can train you to cope with the odds of life. Otherwise you will be a loser and even those Dera walas- Sadhus-the snake oil salesmen can not help you when you are truly in need of help.




> ਦੀਨ ਗਰੀਬੀ ਆਪੁਨੀ ਕਰਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੫੧॥
> dheen gareebee aapunee karathae hoe s hoe ||51||
> Be meek and humble; whatever happens is what the Creator Lord does. ||51||


 With the help of this True Guru- teacher you will shed your ego- Me-ism and then you will be at peace with yourself and will stop wandering from one puddle to the other.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


----------



## Astroboy

> Once again, let us talk about the laws of nature. Ocean fish can not leave the depths of the salty waters and dwell in fresh water. That is the fact. So now the question arises, what is Kabir ji talking about here? Do not try to run away from your problems. Only by confronting them, you can solve them. Swallow the bitter pill( salt water) if you must. It is the only way to learn.


:happy:



> Here, Kabir comes back to the puddles of shallowness that he talked about in the previous Salok49. No matter how much you wander from puddle to puddle, you will get caught by the fishermen- False teachers- Sadhus-Dera walas- Snakeoil salesmen, no matter how much you try otherwise, hence it is not to your advantage.


:yes:


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Kabir Ji is always one of those who....Take the bull by its horns...that is  a Fact. He may look soft..but hes actually as hard as nails underneath...each tuk of his bani shows this thru and through..:happy:


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## spnadmin

We have a difference of opinion. Vaheguruseekr ji.

You are interpreting the salokas very differently. I am seeing this as the outer "body fish" needs to move toward union with the "divine fish within," union of body and soul, ordinary with immortal, in order to get back into the Divine Ocean where it belongs to become one with the Creator. 

The fisherman is Death, the puddle is the ordinary world, the rain is the passage of natural life. And my reasoning comes from the overall message of Kabir: to abandon worldly confusion and make a union with the Divine - Naam. Everything else is a vain pursuit. And the dummies who escort you through life won't know the difference anyway.

I don't think you are seeing it that way but you are being very diplomatic. But maybe we *are *seeing the same thing in two different ways. What is your thinking? (What does your neech tell you?)


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## Tejwant Singh

aad0002 said:


> We have a difference of opinion. Vaheguruseekr ji.
> 
> You are interpreting the salokas very differently. I am seeing this as the outer "body fish" needs to move toward union with the "divine fish within," union of body and soul, ordinary with immortal, in order to get back into the Divine Ocean where it belongs to become one with the Creator.
> 
> The fisherman is Death, the puddle is the ordinary world, the rain is the passage of natural life. And my reasoning comes from the overall message of Kabir: to abandon worldly confusion and make a union with the Divine - Naam. Everything else is a vain pursuit. And the dummies who escort you through life won't know the difference anyway.
> 
> I don't think you are seeing it that way but you are being very diplomatic. But maybe we *are *seeing the same thing in two different ways. What is your thinking? (What does your neech tell you?)


 
Antonia ji

Guru Fateh.

Gurbani is like a mutilfaceted  diamond cut by our Gurus. Both of us are looking at the same diamond,however, perhaps under different lights, which is ok. That is the beauty of turning this gorgeous poetry into prose. 

Body is just recycled once we die. Dust to dust and our soul which is Energy that drove this engine called the mortal body becomes part of the Creative Energy- Ik Ong Kaar.

You mentioned reincarnation in your post. Sikhi acknowledges that others believe in reincarnation but every Shabad in Gurbani says that if you follow the Guru's path to find connection with Ik Ong Kaar, then there is no such thing as reincarnation. This is the only precious birth you should be concerned with and live it with dignity with the help of Gurmat ideals.

"Bahut janam bicherie thei madho- eh janam tumerei lekhei"- (Someone- please give me the page number from SGGS). It means that I have been hopping from one puddle to the other( using your thought process) because that is what I believed in. But now, I just want to do my best in this life and get rid of that belief of reincarnation.

When the opportunity arises, we will talk about mukti one day because a Sikh is not interested in eternity-mukti either.

Now as far as being diplomatic is concerned, when I showed that to my wife she scoffed at me. Kabir ji will not let anyone remain diplomatic. A slap with a velvet glove on is not Kabir ji's cup of tea.

Interesting interaction. This is the only way a great student like you can teach me.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


----------



## Tejwant Singh

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Kabir Ji is always one of those who....Take the bull by its horns...that is a Fact. He may look soft..but hes actually as hard as nails underneath...each tuk of his bani shows this thru and through..:happy:


 
Gyani ji,

Guru Fateh.


I agree with you. Kabir ji had a great gift to use the language of the people and make it easier for them to understand what he was talking about. Singing anything is very easy. Understanding what is being sung needs a certain langauge and Kabir ji had that in him.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## spnadmin

VaheguruSeekr ji  
Guru Fateh!

I do hope you do not mind if I respond in-line for a bit. It is easier to speak to your responses in turn. 

NamJa ji reminded us that Kabir ji said,

कबीर मानस जनमु दुल्मभु है होइ न बारै बार ॥
 Kabīr mānas janam ḏulambẖ hai ho▫e na bārai bār. 
 Kabeer, it is so difficult to obtain this human body; it does not just come over and over again.

The soul comes back - and it is difficult -- the right moment does not present itself over and over. The cycle of life and death for the soul is not a matter of now, again, now, again with every passing of a human life. 


VaheguruSeekr said:


> Antonia ji
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> Gurbani is like a mutilfaceted  diamond cut by our Gurus. Both of us are looking at the same diamond,however, perhaps under different lights, which is ok. That is the beauty of turning this gorgeous poetry into prose.
> 
> There is no doubt that Guruji speaks at more than one level and that these levels describe how rich the message is in ShabdGuru.
> 
> Body is just recycled once we die. Dust to dust and our soul which is Energy that drove this engine called the mortal body becomes part of the Creative Energy- Ik Ong Kaar.
> 
> The body is recycled, into dust. Then it is transformed into other forms of nature -- just as it emerged from nature over many cycles of transformation.
> 
> ਮਿਲੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ ਮਿਲਨ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥
> mil jagadhees milan kee bareeaa ||
> Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.
> 
> 
> ਚਿਰੰਕਾਲ ਇਹ ਦੇਹ ਸੰਜਰੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
> chirankaal eih dhaeh sanjareeaa ||1|| rehaao ||
> After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause||
> 
> 
> ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸੈਲ ਗਿਰਿ ਕਰਿਆ ॥
> kee janam sail gir kariaa ||
> In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;
> 
> Guru Arjan Dev, Ang 176
> 
> I do not doubt that the body recycles in nature. But is Kabir ji not talking about the immortal and indestructible soul? My understanding is that the soul may have a different path, and can take life again. For Kabirji, the body is as he has said earlier in the salokas no more than a covering over flesh and bone.
> 
> ਕਬੀਰ ਇਹੁ ਤਨੁ ਜਾਇਗਾ ਕਵਨੈ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਲਾਇ ॥
> kabeer eihu than jaaeigaa kavanai maarag laae ||
> Kabeer, this body shall perish; place it on the path.
> 
> That is why it was immaterial to him whether one was cremated or buried. His Bani focuses on the journey of the soul. In an earlier saloka Kabirji says that the soul will never have to take life again once it finds its Divine nature.
> 
> ਐਸੇ ਮਰਨੇ ਜੋ ਮਰੈ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਮਰਨਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੨੯॥
> aisae maranae jo marai bahur n maranaa hoe ||29||
> Let those who die, die such a death, that they shall never have to die again. ||29||
> 
> That must mean that the soul has taken life before and that is why the fish has to get back into the Divine Ocean.
> 
> You mentioned reincarnation in your post. Sikhi acknowledges that others believe in reincarnation but every Shabad in Gurbani says that if you follow the Guru's path to find connection with Ik Ong Kaar, then there is no such thing as reincarnation. This is the only precious birth you should be concerned with and live it with dignity with the help of Gurmat ideals.
> 
> Are you certain that Gurbani says there is no such thing as reincarnation? Guru Nanak says we will overcome our fear of the cycle of life and death. Some take this to mean that by overcoming our fear, the matter of reincarnation just goes away and it ceases to be an issue. Others take this to mean that there is no longer any need to fear because with mukhti the soul will end its journey. For Sikhs the jury is out on the question. But again, back to Kabirji -- either way the soul has to make the journey from the puddle to the Ocean, and the way out is through constant bhagat(th)i. Do you agree?
> 
> ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਤਿਸੁ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਸੂਝੈ ਅਗਿਆਨੀ ਅੰਧੁ ਕਮਾਈ ਹੇ ॥੨॥
> guramukh giaan this sabh kishh soojhai agiaanee andhh kamaaee hae ||2||
> The Gurmukh attains spiritual wisdom, and understands everything. The ignorant ones act blindly. ||2||
> 
> ਮਨਮੁਖ ਸਹਸਾ ਬੂਝ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥
> manamukh sehasaa boojh n paaee ||
> The self-willed manmukh is cynical; he doesn't understand.
> 
> ਮਰਿ ਮਰਿ ਜੰਮੈ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਈ ॥
> mar mar janmai janam gavaaee ||
> He dies and dies again, only to be reborn, and loses his life uselessly again.
> ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਰਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਸਹਜੇ ਸਾਚਿ ਸਮਾਈ ਹੇ ॥੩॥
> guramukh naam rathae sukh paaeiaa sehajae saach samaaee hae ||3||
> The Gurmukh is imbued with the Naam, the Name of the Lord; he find peace, and is intuitively immersed in the True Lord. ||3||
> 
> Guru Amar Das, Ang 1047
> 
> "Bahut janam bicherie thei madho- eh janam tumerei lekhei"- (Someone- please give me the page number from SGGS). It means that I have been hopping from one puddle to the other( using your thought process)
> 
> Here is another way to think about hopping about. The camel wanders from one oasis to another, and Guru Ram Das instructs, on Ang 235
> 
> ਅੰਤਰਿ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲੇ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭਵਹਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਭਾਲਿ ॥
> anthar nidhhaan man karehalae bhram bhavehi baahar bhaal ||
> The treasure is deep within, O camel-like mind, but you wander around outside in doubt, searching for it.
> 
> because that is what I believed in. But now, I just want to do my best in this life and get rid of that belief of reincarnation. Perhaps get rid of the belief; or instead get over the fear through continual devotion and eventual union with the Divine -- finally realizing that the Divine permeates all of creation and so death itself is defeated.
> 
> ਕਾਲੁ ਮਾਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਨਿਵਾਰੇ ॥
> kaal maar gur sabadh nivaarae ||
> Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, death is conquered and killed.
> Guru Amar Das, Ang 1047
> 
> When the opportunity arises, we will talk about mukti one day because a Sikh is not interested in eternity-mukti either.
> 
> Now as far as being diplomatic is concerned, when I showed that to my wife she scoffed at me. You are diplomatic even if Kabir ji is not. Kabir ji will not let anyone remain diplomatic. A slap with a velvet glove on is not Kabir ji's cup of tea.
> 
> Interesting interaction. This is the only way a great student like you can teach me.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Tejwant Singh



So my understanding is that Kabirji tells us that in this lifetime, in this body, we have the opportunity to find the Creator within. And if we do not, there are times when the soul will make the journey again.

What happens to the soul (the divine fish) if a person (the body fish) just keeps on poking from puddle to puddle and does not get back in touch with the Divine Ocean? :idea:


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## Astroboy

Look at Selok 52 :-

ਕਬੀਰ  ਬੈਸਨਉ  ਕੀ  ਕੂਕਰਿ  ਭਲੀ  ਸਾਕਤ  ਕੀ  ਬੁਰੀ  ਮਾਇ  ॥ 
कबीर बैसनउ की कूकरि भली साकत की बुरी माइ ॥ 
Kabīr baisna▫o kī kūkar bẖalī sākaṯ kī burī mā▫e. 
Kabeer, even the dog of a devotee is good, while the mother of the faithless cynic is bad. 

ਓਹ  ਨਿਤ  ਸੁਨੈ  ਹਰਿ  ਨਾਮ  ਜਸੁ  ਉਹ  ਪਾਪ  ਬਿਸਾਹਨ  ਜਾਇ  ॥੫੨॥ 
ओह नित सुनै हरि नाम जसु उह पाप बिसाहन जाइ ॥५२॥ 
Oh niṯ sunai har nām jas uh pāp bisāhan jā▫e. ||52|| 
The dog hears the Praises of the Lord's Name, while the other is engaged in sin. ||52|| 

I asked this question in class on how a dog could be good when he does not 
understand the praises of the Lord. Any comments/answers ?


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh

aad0002 said:


> We have a difference of opinion. Vaheguruseekr ji.
> 
> You are interpreting the salokas very differently. I am seeing this as the outer "body fish" needs to move toward union with the "divine fish within," union of body and soul, ordinary with immortal, in order to get back into the Divine Ocean where it belongs to become one with the Creator.
> 
> The fisherman is Death, the puddle is the ordinary world, the rain is the passage of natural life. And my reasoning comes from the overall message of Kabir: to abandon worldly confusion and make a union with the Divine - Naam. Everything else is a vain pursuit. And the dummies who escort you through life won't know the difference anyway.
> 
> I don't think you are seeing it that way but you are being very diplomatic. But maybe we *are *seeing the same thing in two different ways. What is your thinking? (What does your neech tell you?)



aad Ji..
I see it your way...and thats what i have been teaching my students.....my 2 cents worth.


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## spnadmin

Sangat ji

  ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਥਾਪਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਮੇਟਿ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ 
jin ko sathigur thhaapiaa thin maett n sakai koe ||
No one can overthrow those who have been established by the True Guru.



  ਓਨਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਹੈ ਨਾਮੋ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ 
ounaa andhar naam nidhhaan hai naamo paragatt hoe ||
The Treasure of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, is within them, and through the Naam, they are radiant and famous.


ਨਾਉ ਪੂਜੀਐ ਨਾਉ ਮੰਨੀਐ ਅਖੰਡੁ ਸਦਾ ਸਚੁ ਸੋਇ ॥੩॥ 
naao poojeeai naao manneeai akhandd sadhaa sach soe ||3||
They worship the Naam, and they believe in the Naam. The True One is forever Intact and Unbroken. ||3||
  

ਖੇਹੂ ਖੇਹ ਰਲਾਈਐ ਤਾ ਜੀਉ ਕੇਹਾ ਹੋਇ ॥ 
khaehoo khaeh ralaaeeai thaa jeeo kaehaa hoe ||
When the body mingles with dust, what happens to the soul?
  

 ਜਲੀਆ ਸਭਿ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਉਠੀ ਚਲਿਆ ਰੋਇ ॥ 
jaleeaa sabh siaanapaa outhee chaliaa roe ||
All clever tricks are burnt away, and you shall depart crying.
  

 ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮਿ ਵਿਸਾਰਿਐ ਦਰਿ ਗਇਆ ਕਿਆ ਹੋਇ ॥੪॥੮॥ 
naanak naam visaariai dhar gaeiaa kiaa hoe ||4||8||
O Nanak, those who forget the Naam-what will happen when they go to the Court of the Lord? ||4||8||

This part of the shabad is in Sri Raag, Ang 17. It connects with the discussion about Bhagat Kabir ji in this sense. 


If the jeevatma (the individual soul) does not manage in this one lifetime to join with the Divine - then what happens to that soul after death? If it does not merge with Divine Consiousness in this one lifetime, what is its destination?  It is clear that Bhagat Kabiji  and the Gurus say that at death the body rots, is cremated, decays, is recycled into the vast energies of nature and the Cosmos.  The idea that souls reincarnate to cleanse themselves of the filth of past deeds over and over again in truth does not fit with Guru's Shabad. 

Kabir ji says: There is only one chance *in this lifetime* to form a spiritual union with the Divine. But how is this question answered? Does then the soul return to continue is spiritual journey?   Everything depends on how one understands the concept of "soul."  Are there other lifetimes for the soul to continue its spiritual journey toward union with paramatma, the Divine Consciousness?


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## spnadmin

namjap said:


> Look at Selok 52 :-
> 
> ਕਬੀਰ  ਬੈਸਨਉ  ਕੀ  ਕੂਕਰਿ  ਭਲੀ  ਸਾਕਤ  ਕੀ  ਬੁਰੀ  ਮਾਇ  ॥
> कबीर बैसनउ की कूकरि भली साकत की बुरी माइ ॥
> Kabīr baisna▫o kī kūkar bẖalī sākaṯ kī burī mā▫e.
> Kabeer, even the dog of a devotee is good, while the mother of the faithless cynic is bad.
> 
> ਓਹ  ਨਿਤ  ਸੁਨੈ  ਹਰਿ  ਨਾਮ  ਜਸੁ  ਉਹ  ਪਾਪ  ਬਿਸਾਹਨ  ਜਾਇ  ॥੫੨॥
> ओह नित सुनै हरि नाम जसु उह पाप बिसाहन जाइ ॥५२॥
> Oh niṯ sunai har nām jas uh pāp bisāhan jā▫e. ||52||
> The dog hears the Praises of the Lord's Name, while the other is engaged in sin. ||52||
> 
> I asked this question in class on how a dog could be good when he does not
> understand the praises of the Lord. Any comments/answers ?



NamJap ji - Have you already answered the question?

*Those who dwell near the sandalwood tree, become just like the sandalwood tree. (Ang 1365)*


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## Astroboy

Aad Ji,

The answer I received was merely this and the rest is left to the imagination. In class we do not have time to discuss at length. 
Professor Harnek Singh Ji answered, "if you give a name to a dog and call it, it will respond to you."

Let me rephrase my query. Look at the following examples of a dog:

Page 481, Line 2
ਕਹਾ ਸੁਆਨ ਕਉ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸੁਨਾਏ ॥
कहा सुआन कउ सिम्रिति सुनाए ॥
Kahā su▫ān ka▫o simriṯ sunā▫e.
*Why bother to read the Simritees to a dog?*
Devotee Kabir   -  view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Page 1223, Line 17
ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਤ ਕੂਕਰੀ ਆਸਾ ਇਤੁ ਲਾਗੋ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਛਾਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
त्रिपति न होवत कूकरी आसा इतु लागो बिखिआ छार ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ŧaripaṯ na hovaṯ kūkrī āsā iṯ lāgo bikẖi▫ā cẖẖār. ||1|| rahā▫o.
*Like a dog, its desires are never satisfied;* it clings to the ashes of corruption. ||1||Pause||
Guru Arjan Dev   -  view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


:shock:


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## spnadmin

By His hukam, some are dogs and cynics, some are neem trees, some are cows, some are snakes, some are faithless, and some remain absorbed in the Lord's Name. 

By His hukam, the ambrosial nectar irrigates the fields of the soul and brings forth fruit. By His hukam, the ambrosial nectar irrigates a neem tree and it qualities are not changed. 

Do not waste your time trying to improve the snake, the cow, the neem, the dog. They are what they are and they are as they should be according to His Divine Plan. 

You are where you are and you are as you should be according to His Divine Plan. It is your nature to attain bibek bhuddi. Do not waste your time, pretending you are a neem tree. The ambrosial nectar works for you. Do not waste your time and ignore this opportunity. 

That is what I get from it, NamJap ji.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Never being satisfied is one attribute of a dog....YES.
No matter if it has been fed...it will still hang around smelling food/bones etc..it is never "full" satiated.
Thats how w Human shouldl be for Akal purakh...never enough of the Creator....:whisling:


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਹਰਨਾ  ਦੂਬਲਾ  ਇਹੁ  ਹਰੀਆਰਾ  ਤਾਲੁ  ॥ 
कबीर हरना दूबला इहु हरीआरा तालु ॥ 
Kabīr harnā ḏūblā ih harī▫ārā ṯāl. 
Kabeer, the deer is weak, and the pool is lush with green vegetation. 

ਲਾਖ  ਅਹੇਰੀ  ਏਕੁ  ਜੀਉ  ਕੇਤਾ  ਬੰਚਉ  ਕਾਲੁ  ॥੫੩॥ 
लाख अहेरी एकु जीउ केता बंचउ कालु ॥५३॥ 
Lākẖ aherī ek jī▫o keṯā bancẖa▫o kāl. ||53|| 
Thousands of hunters are chasing after the soul; how long can it escape death? ||53||


Prof. Sahib Singh's explanation in Punjabi:

ਦੂਬਲਾ = ਦੁਬਲਾ, ਕਮਜ਼ੋਰ। ਹਰਨਾ = ਜੀਵ-ਹਰਨ। ਇਹੁ = ਇਹ ਜਗਤ। ਇਹੁ ਤਾਲੁ = ਇਹ, ਜਗਤ-ਰੂਪ ਤਲਾਬ। ਹਰੀਆਰਾ = ਹਰਿਆਵਲਾ, ਜਿਸ ਵਿਚ ਮਾਇਕ ਭੋਗਾਂ ਦੀ ਹਰਿਆਵਲ ਹੈ। ਅਹੇਰੀ = ਸ਼ਿਕਾਰੀ, ਬੇਅੰਤ ਵਿਕਾਰ। ਏਕੁ = ਇਕੱਲਾ। ਜੀਉ = ਜੀਵ, ਜਿੰਦ। ਕੇਤਾ ਕਾਲੁ = ਕਿਤਨਾ ਕੁ ਸਮਾ? ਬਹੁਤ ਚਿਰ ਤਕ ਨਹੀਂ। ਬੰਚਉ = ਮੈਂ ਬਚ ਸਕਦਾ ਹਾਂ।੫੩।

ਹੇ ਕਬੀਰ! ਇਹ ਜਗਤ ਇਕ ਐਸਾ ਸਰੋਵਰ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਵਿਚ ਬੇਅੰਤ ਮਾਇਕ ਭੋਗਾਂ ਦੀ ਹਰਿਆਵਲ ਹੈ, ਮੇਰੀ ਇਹ ਜਿੰਦ-ਰੂਪ ਹਰਨ ਕਮਜ਼ੋਰ ਹੈ (ਇਸ ਹਰਿਆਵਲ ਵਲ ਜਾਣ ਤੋਂ ਰਹਿ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਦਾ)। ਮੇਰੀ ਜਿੰਦ ਇੱਕ-ਇਕੱਲੀ ਹੈ, (ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਫਸਾਣ ਲਈ ਮਾਇਕ ਭੋਗ) ਲੱਖਾਂ ਸ਼ਿਕਾਰੀ ਹਨ, (ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਮਾਰ ਤੋਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਉੱਦਮ ਨਾਲ) ਮੈਂ ਬਹੁਤਾ ਚਿਰ ਬਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਦਾ।੫੩।


Academy Malaysia's ebook explains :
*Kabir says that this world-like pond is filled with desires, the deer-like human is walking around weakly (unprotected). Human gets weak in fulfilling the desires and temptations and he becomes subjected to unlimited sorrows and pain in life, as the example of the thirsty deer who arrives at the pond to drink, but the water did not quench his thirst and made him even more thirstier. Therefore, fulfilling the desires actually increases the temptations.*

*Human sensors and thoughts are similar to a hundreds of hunters chasing after the one being, so how long can one escape, means one cannot escape.*


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਗੰਗਾ  ਤੀਰ  ਜੁ  ਘਰੁ  ਕਰਹਿ  ਪੀਵਹਿ  ਨਿਰਮਲ  ਨੀਰੁ  ॥ 
कबीर गंगा तीर जु घरु करहि पीवहि निरमल नीरु ॥ 
Kabīr gangā ṯīr jo gẖar karahi pīvėh nirmal nīr. 
Kabeer, some make their homes on the banks of the Ganges, and drink pure water. 

ਬਿਨੁ  ਹਰਿ  ਭਗਤਿ  ਨ  ਮੁਕਤਿ  ਹੋਇ  ਇਉ  ਕਹਿ  ਰਮੇ  ਕਬੀਰ  ॥੫੪॥ 
बिनु हरि भगति न मुकति होइ इउ कहि रमे कबीर ॥५४॥ 
Bin har bẖagaṯ na mukaṯ ho▫e i▫o kahi rame Kabīr. ||54|| 
Without devotional worship of the Lord, they are not liberated. Kabeer proclaims this. ||54||

:Missy:


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## pk70

namjap said:


> Look at Selok 52 :-
> 
> ਕਬੀਰ ਬੈਸਨਉ ਕੀ ਕੂਕਰਿ ਭਲੀ ਸਾਕਤ ਕੀ ਬੁਰੀ ਮਾਇ ॥
> कबीर बैसनउ की कूकरि भली साकत की बुरी माइ ॥
> Kabīr baisna▫o kī kūkar bẖalī sākaṯ kī burī mā▫e.
> Kabeer, even the dog of a devotee is good, while the mother of the faithless cynic is bad.
> 
> ਓਹ ਨਿਤ ਸੁਨੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਜਸੁ ਉਹ ਪਾਪ ਬਿਸਾਹਨ ਜਾਇ ॥੫੨॥
> ओह नित सुनै हरि नाम जसु उह पाप बिसाहन जाइ ॥५२॥
> Oh niṯ sunai har nām jas uh pāp bisāhan jā▫e. ||52||
> The dog hears the Praises of the Lord's Name, while the other is engaged in sin. ||52||
> 
> I asked this question in class on how a dog could be good when he does not
> understand the praises of the Lord. Any comments/answers ?


 
*namjap Jio*

*Whenever an animal is referred in Gurbani, Kindly think about the habits it is known for, if you do, you will pick up the meaning, if you stick to only the animal used as reference, you will not be able to do justice to the usage. Look how kookar/  is used*
*ਹਮ* *ਕੂਕਰ* *ਤੇਰੇ ਦਰਬਾਰਿ **॥
**Ham kūkar **ṯ**ere **ḏ**arbār.
**I am a dog at Your Court, Lord.
**ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ *
*Its about being insignificant*

*Now see another context*
*ਕੂਕਰ* *ਕੂੜੁ ਕਮਾਈਐ ਗੁਰ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਪਚੈ ਪਚਾਨੁ **॥
**Kūkar kū**ṛ** kamā▫ī▫ai gur nin**ḏ**ā pac**ẖ**ai pac**ẖ**ān.
**Those who practice falsehood are dogs(they just bark meaninglessly); those who slander the Guru shall burn in their own fire.
**ਮਃ **1   -  *
*It is about useless slandering compared to barking of the dog*

*In the context of your question, I shall give one example, in a Punjabi Song, there is a line “sade nalon changa haar gorye jo gale naal la rakhdee ( oh beautiful lady, a necklace you keep around your neck is better than me (because it is close to you), same way, an expression is used by Kabir ji, after reading it, if one thinks how dog can understand the praise of the Lord, obviously misses the metaphoric application of the word. As given in above Punjabi song, how a necklace can have feelings of being close? I hope you get the point.*
*Thanks*


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## Astroboy

Now we're talking. Thank you PK70 Ji. 

Another is Bulleh Shah's poetry, "Bulliya utth yaar benaleh, nahin taN baaji leh gaye kuttey."

Yes, it always refers back to us, humans. Aad Ji, also started a thread about animals of SGGS. 
What's the name of the thread, Aad Ji ?


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## Astroboy

There's another story about how a woman in his neighborhood used to tease him. 
This old man had a white flowing beard and used to take evening walks. 
She used to be seen, brushing her dog's fur and grooming it. 
Occasionally, she used to say to this old man, "my dog's tail is better than your beard."
In reply, the old man used to agree. One day, when the old man knew he was dying, he asked
to bring the lady to him. At his deathbed, he has the opportunity to say to her,
 "today, my beard is better than your dog's tail."

The moral of the story being that human nature is so fragile and weak that one never 
knows when it will fall prey to the 5 evils of the mind. So it is hard to tell if the white beard 
will live up to its name in one's lifetime. But of course, the purpose of the flowing beard 
is a constant reminder to think, feel and act in a God-like manner.


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## Astroboy

namjap said:


> ਕਬੀਰ  ਗੰਗਾ  ਤੀਰ  ਜੁ  ਘਰੁ  ਕਰਹਿ  ਪੀਵਹਿ  ਨਿਰਮਲ  ਨੀਰੁ  ॥
> कबीर गंगा तीर जु घरु करहि पीवहि निरमल नीरु ॥
> Kabīr gangā ṯīr jo gẖar karahi pīvėh nirmal nīr.
> Kabeer, some make their homes on the banks of the Ganges, and drink pure water.
> 
> ਬਿਨੁ  ਹਰਿ  ਭਗਤਿ  ਨ  ਮੁਕਤਿ  ਹੋਇ  ਇਉ  ਕਹਿ  ਰਮੇ  ਕਬੀਰ  ॥੫੪॥
> बिनु हरि भगति न मुकति होइ इउ कहि रमे कबीर ॥५४॥
> Bin har bẖagaṯ na mukaṯ ho▫e i▫o kahi rame Kabīr. ||54||
> Without devotional worship of the Lord, they are not liberated. Kabeer proclaims this. ||54||



Sri Kabir Ji says that even if one constructs his house on the banks of Ganges river and drinks the pure water,

Without the Almighty's meditation one can never obtain salvation. Upon such advice on the eternal truth, the great saints indulge into the Almighty's meditation.


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਮਨੁ  ਨਿਰਮਲੁ  ਭਇਆ  ਜੈਸਾ  ਗੰਗਾ  ਨੀਰੁ  ॥ 
कबीर मनु निरमलु भइआ जैसा गंगा नीरु ॥ 
Kabīr man nirmal bẖa▫i▫ā jaisā gangā nīr. 
Kabeer, my mind has become immaculate, like the waters of the Ganges. 

ਪਾਛੈ  ਲਾਗੋ  ਹਰਿ  ਫਿਰੈ  ਕਹਤ  ਕਬੀਰ  ਕਬੀਰ  ॥੫੫॥ 
पाछै लागो हरि फिरै कहत कबीर कबीर ॥५५॥ 
Pācẖẖai lāgo har firai kahaṯ Kabīr Kabīr. ||55|| 
The Lord follows after me, calling, "Kabeer! Kabeer!" ||55||

Kabir Panth also has this selok:

_Kabir       Man Nirmal Bhaya,       Jaise Ganga Neer
      Pache Pache Har Phire,       Kahat Kabir Kabir

Kabir Man Nirmal Bhaya

_ Translation
 Kabir's mind       got cleansed like the holy Ganges water
      Now everyone follows, saying Kabir Kabir​ My       Understanding
*




*Everyone       desires to be known, to belong.  Yet due to the chaotic states of our minds, we find       ourselves secluded and limited.  The cause of this chaos is our attachments and       bondages.  For some reason we are unable to break these shackles and are therefore       confined.​ The       desire to scale the heights of infinity can be achieved only when there is release from       our attachments and feelings of insecurity   that bind us.  And, this is       possible only when our mind is cleansed from the impurities of ego, illicit passions,       anger, fear, greed and procrastination.​ Once       the mind is free then we find ourselves relaxed, loving and compassionate. Then everyone       looks up to us and  wants to associate with us with confidence.  Only those with       relaxed and loving mind find themselves in harmony with everyone.​ – * Rajender Krishan*​


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਮਨੁ  ਨਿਰਮਲੁ  ਭਇਆ  ਜੈਸਾ  ਗੰਗਾ  ਨੀਰੁ  ॥ 
कबीर मनु निरमलु भइआ जैसा गंगा नीरु ॥ 
Kabīr man nirmal bẖa▫i▫ā jaisā gangā nīr. 
Kabeer, my mind has become immaculate, like the waters of the Ganges. 

ਪਾਛੈ  ਲਾਗੋ  ਹਰਿ  ਫਿਰੈ  ਕਹਤ  ਕਬੀਰ  ਕਬੀਰ  ॥੫੫॥ 
पाछै लागो हरि फिरै कहत कबीर कबीर ॥५५॥ 
Pācẖẖai lāgo har firai kahaṯ Kabīr Kabīr. ||55|| 
The Lord follows after me, calling, "Kabeer! Kabeer!" ||55||

Kabir Panth also has this selok:

_Kabir       Man Nirmal Bhaya,       Jaise Ganga Neer
      Pache Pache Har Phire,       Kahat Kabir Kabir

Kabir Man Nirmal Bhaya

_ Translation
 Kabir's mind       got cleansed like the holy Ganges water
      Now everyone follows, saying Kabir Kabir​ My       Understanding
*



*Everyone       desires to be known, to belong.  Yet due to the chaotic states of our minds, we find       ourselves secluded and limited.  The cause of this chaos is our attachments and       bondages.  For some reason we are unable to break these shackles and are therefore       confined.​ The       desire to scale the heights of infinity can be achieved only when there is release from       our attachments and feelings of insecurity   that bind us.  And, this is       possible only when our mind is cleansed from the impurities of ego, illicit passions,       anger, fear, greed and procrastination.​ Once       the mind is free then we find ourselves relaxed, loving and compassionate. Then everyone       looks up to us and  wants to associate with us with confidence.  Only those with       relaxed and loving mind find themselves in harmony with everyone.​ – * Rajender Krishan*​


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਹਰਦੀ  ਪੀਅਰੀ  ਚੂੰਨਾਂ  ਊਜਲ  ਭਾਇ  ॥ 
कबीर हरदी पीअरी चूंनां ऊजल भाइ ॥ 
Kabīr harḏī pī▫arī cẖūŉnāŉ ūjal bẖā▫e. 
Kabeer, tumeric is yelow, and lime is white. 

ਰਾਮ  ਸਨੇਹੀ  ਤਉ  ਮਿਲੈ  ਦੋਨਉ  ਬਰਨ  ਗਵਾਇ  ॥੫੬॥ 
राम सनेही तउ मिलै दोनउ बरन गवाइ ॥५६॥ 
Rām sanehī ṯa▫o milai don▫o baran gavā▫e. ||56|| 
You shall meet the Beloved Lord, only when both colors are lost. ||56|| 

I don't understand this selok. Please explain!!!


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## Tejwant Singh

namjap said:


> ਕਬੀਰ  ਹਰਦੀ  ਪੀਅਰੀ  ਚੂੰਨਾਂ  ਊਜਲ  ਭਾਇ  ॥
> कबीर हरदी पीअरी चूंनां ऊजल भाइ ॥
> Kabīr harḏī pī▫arī cẖūŉnāŉ ūjal bẖā▫e.
> Kabeer, tumeric is yelow, and lime is white.
> 
> ਰਾਮ  ਸਨੇਹੀ  ਤਉ  ਮਿਲੈ  ਦੋਨਉ  ਬਰਨ  ਗਵਾਇ  ॥੫੬॥
> राम सनेही तउ मिलै दोनउ बरन गवाइ ॥५६॥
> Rām sanehī ṯa▫o milai don▫o baran gavā▫e. ||56||
> You shall meet the Beloved Lord, only when both colors are lost. ||56||
> 
> I don't understand this selok. Please explain!!!




Namjap ji,

Guru Fateh.

Vegetables and animals in the animal kingdom excluding us humans  are identified by their colours or other traits. They are what they are. Yes, some fish and animals have the capacity to hide themselves-camouflage in order to hunt  and those can also be noticed and studied.

Human race is the only animal race which can create facades with the help of ego, intellect,conceit and deceit.

So what Kabir ji is saying is that one can only find the connection with IK ONG KAAR when the "colours" of intellect,ego conceit and deceit are lost. 

In other words only when we are able to cross the bridge which can take us from Me-ism to One-ism we will be able to seek and reach where IK ONG KAAR dwells.


Tejwant Singh


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਹਰਦੀ  ਪੀਰਤਨੁ  ਹਰੈ  ਚੂਨ  ਚਿਹਨੁ  ਨ  ਰਹਾਇ  ॥ 
कबीर हरदी पीरतनु हरै चून चिहनु न रहाइ ॥ 
Kabīr harḏī pīrṯan harai cẖūn cẖihan na rahā▫e. 
Kabeer, tumeric has lost its yellow color, and no trace of lime's whiteness remains. 

ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ  ਇਹ  ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ  ਕਉ  ਜਿਹ  ਜਾਤਿ  ਬਰਨੁ  ਕੁਲੁ  ਜਾਇ  ॥੫੭॥ 
बलिहारी इह प्रीति कउ जिह जाति बरनु कुलु जाइ ॥५७॥ 
Balihārī ih parīṯ ka▫o jih jāṯ baran kul jā▫e. ||57|| 
I am a sacrifice to this love, by which social class and status, color and ancestry are taken away. ||57||

Vaheguruseekr Ji,

Is this following selok 57 an extension of the selok 56 - meaning by meaning-wise ?  Or is it a stand alone selok with a different meaning?


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## Tejwant Singh

namjap said:


> ਕਬੀਰ  ਹਰਦੀ  ਪੀਰਤਨੁ  ਹਰੈ  ਚੂਨ  ਚਿਹਨੁ  ਨ  ਰਹਾਇ  ॥
> कबीर हरदी पीरतनु हरै चून चिहनु न रहाइ ॥
> Kabīr harḏī pīrṯan harai cẖūn cẖihan na rahā▫e.
> Kabeer, tumeric has lost its yellow color, and no trace of lime's whiteness remains.
> 
> ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ  ਇਹ  ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ  ਕਉ  ਜਿਹ  ਜਾਤਿ  ਬਰਨੁ  ਕੁਲੁ  ਜਾਇ  ॥੫੭॥
> बलिहारी इह प्रीति कउ जिह जाति बरनु कुलु जाइ ॥५७॥
> Balihārī ih parīṯ ka▫o jih jāṯ baran kul jā▫e. ||57||
> I am a sacrifice to this love, by which social class and status, color and ancestry are taken away. ||57||
> 
> Vaheguruseekr Ji,
> 
> Is this following selok 57 an extension of the selok 56 - meaning by meaning-wise ?  Or is it a stand alone selok with a different meaning?




Namjap ji,

This salok  re-emphasizes  the same theme that is in Salok 56 according to my limited understanding because we humans are deceitful and need a constant reminder.

The latter part of the above Salok 57 also shows us the significance of Pangat and Langar- breaking  bread irrespective of the hue,creed or faith, either one is a prince or a pauper.

Tejwant Singh


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਮੁਕਤਿ  ਦੁਆਰਾ  ਸੰਕੁਰਾ  ਰਾਈ  ਦਸਏਂ  ਭਾਇ  ॥ 
कबीर मुकति दुआरा संकुरा राई दसएं भाइ ॥ 
Kabīr mukaṯ ḏu▫ārā sankurā rā▫ī ḏas▫eŉ bẖā▫e. 
Kabeer, the door of liberation is very narrow, less than the width of a mustard seed. 

ਮਨੁ  ਤਉ  ਮੈਗਲੁ  ਹੋਇ  ਰਹਿਓ  ਨਿਕਸੋ  ਕਿਉ  ਕੈ  ਜਾਇ  ॥੫੮॥ 
मनु तउ मैगलु होइ रहिओ निकसो किउ कै जाइ ॥५८॥ 
Man ṯa▫o maigal ho▫e rahi▫o nikso ki▫o kai jā▫e. ||58|| 
Your mind is larger than an elephant; how will it pass through? ||58||

*Can anyone answer this question posed by Sri Bhagat Kabir Ji?*


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## Tejwant Singh

> ਕਬੀਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਸੰਕੁਰਾ ਰਾਈ ਦਸਏਂ ਭਾਇ ॥
> कबीर मुकति दुआरा संकुरा राई दसएं भाइ ॥
> Kabīr mukaṯ ḏu▫ārā sankurā rā▫ī ḏas▫eŉ bẖā▫e.
> Kabeer, the door of liberation is very narrow, less than the width of a mustard seed.
> 
> ਮਨੁ ਤਉ ਮੈਗਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਰਹਿਓ ਨਿਕਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਕੈ ਜਾਇ ॥੫੮॥
> मनु तउ मैगलु होइ रहिओ निकसो किउ कै जाइ ॥५८॥
> Man ṯa▫o maigal ho▫e rahi▫o nikso ki▫o kai jā▫e. ||58||
> Your mind is larger than an elephant; how will it pass through? ||58||
> 
> *Can anyone answer this question posed by Sri Bhagat Kabir Ji?*



http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰ*http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰ*namjap,

First lets talk what liberation- freedom means before we get to its gateway.

Liberation/freedom from what? The above line shows that we are all shackled with the shackles of Maya with Kaam, Krodh, Lobh ,Moh ,Hankaar. These shackles have not only shackled our hands but all limbs of our body and our mind. These shackles imprison us in the jails of Me-ism.

As we have fattened our minds like elephants with our above traits cultivated with Me-ism which has imprisoned us within, it is impossible for us to get out of this self created jail till we have learnt how to be on the crash diet of One-ism.


Tejwant Singh


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## Astroboy

> crash diet of One-ism.



Crash diet of one-ism?

Please expand so that we can trim down our bellies to pass thru the eye of the needle.:{;o:


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## spnadmin

ONE s low cal on earth and high energy in sachkand :ice: ONE is half as many calories as duality. And for a diet of ONE, the calories are not empty calories either.


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਐਸਾ  ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ  ਜੇ  ਮਿਲੈ  ਤੁਠਾ  ਕਰੇ  ਪਸਾਉ  ॥ 
कबीर ऐसा सतिगुरु जे मिलै तुठा करे पसाउ ॥ 
Kabīr aisā saṯgur je milai ṯuṯẖā kare pasā▫o. 
Kabeer, if I meet such a True Guru, who mercifully blesses me with the gift, 

ਮੁਕਤਿ  ਦੁਆਰਾ  ਮੋਕਲਾ  ਸਹਜੇ  ਆਵਉ  ਜਾਉ  ॥੫੯॥ 
मुकति दुआरा मोकला सहजे आवउ जाउ ॥५९॥ 
Mukaṯ ḏu▫ārā moklā sėhje āva▫o jā▫o. ||59|| 
then the door of liberation will open wide for me, and I will easily pass through. ||59||

I know Kabir had a guru, Bhagat Ramanand Ji. How does a guru liberate the chela ?


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਨਾ  ਮਹਿ  ਛਾਨਿ  ਨ  ਛਾਪਰੀ  ਨਾ  ਮਹਿ  ਘਰੁ  ਨਹੀ  ਗਾਉ  ॥ 
कबीर ना मोहि छानि न छापरी ना मोहि घरु नही गाउ ॥ 
Kabīr nā mohi cẖẖān na cẖẖāprī nā mohi gẖar nahī gā▫o. 
Kabeer, I have no hut or hovel, no house or village. 

ਮਤ  ਹਰਿ  ਪੂਛੈ  ਕਉਨੁ  ਹੈ  ਮੇਰੇ  ਜਾਤਿ  ਨ  ਨਾਉ  ॥੬੦॥ 
मत हरि पूछै कउनु है मेरे जाति न नाउ ॥६०॥ 
Maṯ har pūcẖẖai ka▫un hai mere jāṯ na nā▫o. ||60|| 
I hope that the Lord will not ask who I am. I have no social status or name. ||60||

ਕਬੀਰ ਮੇਰੇ ਕੋਲ ਛਪਰ ਨਹੀਂ, ਨਾਂ ਹੀ ਕੋਈ ਕੁੱਲੀ ਹੈ। ਮੇਰੇ ਕੋਲ ਨਾਂ ਝੁਗਾ ਹੈ ਨਾਂ ਪਿੰਡ। 
ਮੇਰਾ ਕੋਈ ਵਰਨ ਅਤੇ ਨਾਮ ਨਹੀਂ ਅਤੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਨੇ ਪੁਛਣਾ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਿ ਮੈਂ ਕੌਣ ਹਾਂ।


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਮੁਹਿ ਮਰਨੇ ਕਾ ਚਾਉ ਹੈ ਮਰਉ ਤ ਹਰਿ ਕੈ ਦੁਆਰ ॥ 
कबीर मुहि मरने का चाउ है मरउ त हरि कै दुआर ॥ 
Kabīr muhi marne kā cẖā▫o hai mara▫o ṯa har kai ḏu▫ār. 
Kabeer, I long to die; let me die at the Lord's Door. 

ਮਤ ਹਰਿ ਪੂਛੈ ਕਉਨੁ ਹੈ ਪਰਾ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਬਾਰ ॥੬੧॥ 
मत हरि पूछै कउनु है परा हमारै बार ॥६१॥ 
Maṯ har pūcẖẖai ka▫un hai parā hamārai bār. ||61|| 
I hope that the Lord does not ask, "Who is this, lying at my door?" ||61|| 

Source:Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib


Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh 
Respected Jios
I m not able to get the meaning of *har-kai-duaar,* in line with SGGS*.* I shall be thankful if the same can be explained. 

Bhul chuk lai maafi ji


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## spnadmin

gurvinder_janu said:


> ਕਬੀਰ ਮੁਹਿ ਮਰਨੇ ਕਾ ਚਾਉ ਹੈ ਮਰਉ ਤ ਹਰਿ ਕੈ ਦੁਆਰ ॥
> कबीर मुहि मरने का चाउ है मरउ त हरि कै दुआर ॥
> Kabīr muhi marne kā cẖā▫o hai mara▫o ṯa har kai ḏu▫ār.
> Kabeer, I long to die; let me die at the Lord's Door.
> 
> ਮਤ ਹਰਿ ਪੂਛੈ ਕਉਨੁ ਹੈ ਪਰਾ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਬਾਰ ॥੬੧॥
> मत हरि पूछै कउनु है परा हमारै बार ॥६१॥
> Maṯ har pūcẖẖai ka▫un hai parā hamārai bār. ||61||
> I hope that the Lord does not ask, "Who is this, lying at my door?" ||61||
> 
> Source:Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib
> 
> 
> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
> Respected Jios
> I m not able to get the meaning of *har-kai-duaar,* in line with SGGS*.* I shall be thankful if the same can be explained.
> 
> Bhul chuk lai maafi ji



Gurvinder_janu ji

My humble opinion 

In this line 
Kabīr muhi marne kā cẖā▫o hai mara▫o ṯa *har kai ḏu▫ār.* 

Although the translator is giving *har kai duaar* as at the *door *(better in English is doorway) *of Hari or God *, Kabir is saying that he longs to die at the *threshold *of consciousness of God or union with divinity.

In line with other parts of Gurbani -- _O Mind ! Thou art of the Quintesscent Jyot; recognise thee thine Divinity_

Then in the next verse, Kabir recognizes that this union is not automatic. Kabir is acknowledging that this is a *two-way street*: Maṯ har pūcẖẖai ka▫un hai parā hamārai bār, Please God, Hari, Divnity -- recognize me when I die at your door, at the threshold of consiousness of You. 


When you are at the door or at the threshold you are not all the way in yet. You are conscious, you have wisdom, and you are seeking union, yet it is Hari who lets you through the door, by the glance of His Grace.


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## gurvinder_janu

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Respected Dear aad0002 Ji

I m grateful to yourgoodself for the reply. Many many thanx.. 

Waheguru Bless U
Bhul chuk lai maafi ji


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## spnadmin

Hope I am correct though


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## Tejwant Singh

Gurvinder ji,

Allow me to throw a curve ball at Antonia ji's BP.( Batting practice- a baseball jargon).

Gurbani is such a beautiful mosaic that we can see all kinds of images in it through our inner light. What I mean is that what Antonia ji saw in the Shabad is not incorrect. But this is the way I see it and someone else may see the same mosaic differently through her or his inner amber.

कबीर मुहि मरने का चाउ है मरउ त हरि कै दुआर ॥ 
Kabīr muhi marne kā cẖā▫o hai mara▫o ṯa har kai ḏu▫ār. 
Kabeer, I long to die; let me die at the Lord's Door. 

Kabir ji is saying that I have the yearning that my  Me-ism, my ego, my arrogance dies at the gateway of the dwellings of  Ik Ong Kaar. In other words I want to merge with the ONE.

ਮਤ ਹਰਿ ਪੂਛੈ ਕਉਨੁ ਹੈ ਪਰਾ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਬਾਰ ॥੬੧॥ 
मत हरि पूछै कउनु है परा हमारै बार ॥६१॥ 
Maṯ har pūcẖẖai ka▫un hai parā hamārai bār. ||61|| 
I hope that the Lord does not ask, "Who is this, lying at my door?" ||61|| 

Wow!. What beautiful poetry full of multi dimensional depth!

 Come to think of it, all knowing Ik Ong Kaar does not need to ask anything to anyone. 

So what does this mean then?

It shows that how Me-ism has made me insecure and when I merge with the ONE by dying from Me-ism, I just want my all loving Father to embrace me. No questions asked. I am hungry for his unconditional love.

All of us want to cultivate these longings, these yearnings. The word in Portuguese explains it the best,  these SAUDADES.

Tejwant Singh


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## spnadmin

Tejwant ji

I don't see it as a curve ball at all -- my comments had to do with the issue of the "duaar." I tend to agree that death in this seloka can indeed refer to the death of ego. It does not have to be limited in meaning to personal death.

Sat Nam ji


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## Tejwant Singh

aad0002 said:


> Tejwant ji
> 
> I don't see it as a curve ball at all -- my comments had to do with the issue of the "duaar." I tend to agree that death in this seloka can indeed refer to the death of ego. It does not have to be limited in meaning to personal death.
> 
> Sat Nam ji



Antonia ji,

Guru fateh.

What I  meant by the curve ball  is that Gurbani  makes us see it from different angles.And I forgot to tell you that you threw a great knuckle ball.:happy:

Tejwant Singh


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## spnadmin

I can't keep up. No use trying. Kabir ji forgive me.


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## gurvinder_janu




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## spnadmin

Gurvinder ji

Curve ball and knuckle ball are terms from US, Canadian and Japanese obsession known as baseball. A player on one side throws baseballs across the part of a field calledll a "diamond" to a batter, on the opposing team. The batter is supposed to hit the ball with his bat in such a way that none of the members of the pitcher's team can catch it. If they can't catch it the batter can run around the field and eventually achieve what is called a home run. Considered a wonderful achievement. 

The pitcher throws the ball at an angle and speed in various ways. A curve ball actually flies in a curved path making it hard for the pitcher to make contact with the ball. A knuckle ball is thrown so that it comes in toward the batter very fast and very hard, and it follows a path that tends to come toward the pitcher in a downward arch -- also very hard to hit. 

When these terms are used in conversation outside of the game of baseball it means that the person is saying something that is or could be hard to contradict. It is a Singh thing. Kaurs as a rule don't think in these terms. Please do not be offended.


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## Tejwant Singh

Gurvinder ji,

Sorry about the baseball jargon. I just wanted to thank you for sharing this beautiful Salok by Kabir ji. I am one of his biggest fans.

Poetry by  Kabir ji makes me skip a heart beat or two when I read it, for the reasons unknown to me perhaps because of its multidimensional depth laced with such  simplicity.

So thanks once again.

Tejwant Singh


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਨਾ ਹਮ ਕੀਆ ਨ ਕਰਹਿਗੇ ਨਾ ਕਰਿ ਸਕੈ ਸਰੀਰੁ ॥ 
कबीर ना हम कीआ न करहिगे ना करि सकै सरीरु ॥ 
Kabīr nā ham kī▫ā na karhige nā kar sakai sarīr. 
Kabeer, I have not done anything; I shall not do anything; my body cannot do anything. 

ਕਿਆ ਜਾਨਉ ਕਿਛੁ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਆ ਭਇਓ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਕਬੀਰੁ ॥੬੨॥ 
किआ जानउ किछु हरि कीआ भइओ कबीरु कबीरु ॥६२॥ 
Ki▫ā jān▫o kicẖẖ har kī▫ā bẖa▫i▫o Kabīr Kabīr. ||62|| 
I do not know what the Lord has done, but the call has gone out: "Kabeer, Kabeer". ||62|| 

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Respected aad0002 Ji and Tejwant Singh Ji
Sat Sri Akaal

I m thankful to both of u for conveying the beautiful descriptive meaning of selok of Kabir Ji. In this selok too Kabir ji has conveyed that everything is in the Hukam of Waheguru.

Bhul chuk lai maafi ji
Gurvinder Kaur


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## spnadmin

Gurvinder ji

In this seloka it is interesting that Kabeer calls his own name Kabeer Kabeer,  after he says in the first line, I have not done anything, I shall not do anything, my body cannot do anything.

"Kabeer" means "Great." We also remember that in an earlier seloka Kabeer says, Kabeer you are Great!

First Kabir says he has done and will do nothing and then says that his body cannot do anything. He is nothing yet he is Kabeer, he is nothing yet he is Great. How is this apparent contradiction resolved? What bridge is there between being nothing in his physical form (my body cannot do anything meaning that he/I am helpless) to something Great?  

The Divine creates the bridge. Kabeer says the "call has gone out." Kabeer does not know what the Lord has done, but he knows that the Lord has called him Kabeer. Kabeer has found the Divine greatness within himself. 

Deeds of the body are nothing in comparison to That union.

_Note: for those who are detail oriented, Al Kabeer means Great or the Great One in Arabic. _


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## Tejwant Singh

gurvinder_janu said:


> ਕਬੀਰ ਨਾ ਹਮ ਕੀਆ ਨ ਕਰਹਿਗੇ ਨਾ ਕਰਿ ਸਕੈ ਸਰੀਰੁ ॥
> कबीर ना हम कीआ न करहिगे ना करि सकै सरीरु ॥
> Kabīr nā ham kī▫ā na karhige nā kar sakai sarīr.
> Kabeer, I have not done anything; I shall not do anything; my body cannot do anything.
> 
> ਕਿਆ ਜਾਨਉ ਕਿਛੁ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਆ ਭਇਓ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਕਬੀਰੁ ॥੬੨॥
> किआ जानउ किछु हरि कीआ भइओ कबीरु कबीरु ॥६२॥
> Ki▫ā jān▫o kicẖẖ har kī▫ā bẖa▫i▫o Kabīr Kabīr. ||62||
> I do not know what the Lord has done, but the call has gone out: "Kabeer, Kabeer". ||62||
> 
> In this selok too Kabir ji has conveyed that everything is in the Hukam of Waheguru.
> 
> Bhul chuk lai maafi ji
> Gurvinder Kaur


 
Gurvinder ji,

Guru Fateh.

You are right. In this salok Kabir ji shows us who  the true Tillerman of our boat is. Ik Ong Kaar is the only one who steers us through the turbulent waters of our lives. In other words Kabir ji is also telling us that stop living in Me-ism and self patting your back because you claim to have acheived something on your own. Only The ONE is the true doer and the giver.

Thanks for sharing.

Tejwant Singh


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## pk70

gurvinder_janu said:


> ਕਬੀਰ ਨਾ ਹਮ ਕੀਆ ਨ ਕਰਹਿਗੇ ਨਾ ਕਰਿ ਸਕੈ ਸਰੀਰੁ ॥
> कबीर ना हम कीआ न करहिगे ना करि सकै सरीरु ॥
> Kabīr nā ham kī▫ā na karhige nā kar sakai sarīr.
> Kabeer, I have not done anything; I shall not do anything; my body cannot do anything.
> 
> ਕਿਆ ਜਾਨਉ ਕਿਛੁ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਆ ਭਇਓ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਕਬੀਰੁ ॥੬੨॥
> किआ जानउ किछु हरि कीआ भइओ कबीरु कबीरु ॥६२॥
> Ki▫ā jān▫o kicẖẖ har kī▫ā bẖa▫i▫o Kabīr Kabīr. ||62||
> I do not know what the Lord has done, but the call has gone out: "Kabeer, Kabeer". ||62||
> 
> Gurvinder Kaur




*Gurvinder Janu ji[/FONT]*
*I am sure that you have got the idea of Kabir Ji’s Sloka. I just want to add one thing here that Gurbani has threads but all are bound to one Guru Message, surprisingly, who spends some time on contemplating on it, understands that throughout Sree Guru Granth Sahib Ji same Guru Message is interpreted in different ways and different contexts.. As above Kabir ji  is crediting his fame Akaalpurakh and points out His grace to be cause of it,  in fact it is an accepted truth in Gurbani that all is established as per His Ordinance and grace. The difference between the Sansaree and enlightened one is that Sansaree thinks it is done by her or him but enlightened one says it is all His play. Repetition of “Kabeer  in the Vaak,  is to express “fame”. It is common in Hindi or Punjabi” Bas fer kia, Obama Obama  ho gaee” means his name became famous. I am giving quote from Jap Ji Sahib to understand clearly why Kabir ji being enlightened says so. Jap Ji Sahib is interpreted throughout SGGS Ji. No wonder Prf. Puran Singh writes in “Jin ke chole rattere” Sikh dies without Japji” I agree with him hundred percent.[/FONT]*
*ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਸੁਰਤੀ ਗਿਆਨਿ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ [/FONT]**॥[/FONT] **ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਜੁਗਤੀ ਛੁਟੈ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ [/FONT]**॥[/FONT] **ਜਿਸੁ ਹਥਿ ਜੋਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਸੋਇ [/FONT]**॥[/FONT] **ਨਾਨਕ ਉਤਮੁ ਨੀਚੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ [/FONT]**॥[/FONT]**੩੩**॥[/FONT] *
*Jor na surṯī gi▫ān vīcẖār.[/FONT]   **Jor na jugṯī cẖẖutai sansār.[/FONT]   **Jis hath jor kar vekẖai so▫e.[/FONT]   **Nānak uṯam nīcẖ na ko▫e. ||33||[/FONT]   *
*I have no power to gain understanding of Divine Knowledge and Lord's meditation.[/FONT] **I have no power to find the way to escape from the world.[/FONT] **He, in whose hand the power is, exercises and beholds it.[/FONT] **O Nanak! By one's own strength, none can be good or bad.[/FONT] *
*ਸੁਰਤੀ** = **ਸੁਰਤ**ਵਿਚ**, **ਆਤਮਕ**ਜਾਗ**ਵਿਚ।**ਗਿਆਨਿ** = **ਗਿਆਨ** (**ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ**ਕਰਨ**) **ਵਿਚ।**ਵੀਚਾਰਿ** = **ਵੀਚਾਰ** (**ਕਰਨ**) **ਵਿਚ।**ਜੁਗਤੀ** = **ਜੁਗਤ**ਵਿਚ**, **ਰਹਿਤ**ਵਿਚ।**ਛੁਟੈ** = **ਮੁਕਤ**ਹੁੰਦਾ**ਹੈ**, **ਮੁੱਕ**ਜਾਂਦਾ**ਹੈ।**ਜਿਸੁ**ਹਥਿ** = **ਜਿਸ**ਅਕਾਲ**ਪੁਰਖ**ਦੇ**ਹੱਥ**ਵਿਚ।**ਕਰਿ**ਵੇਖੈ** = **([/FONT]**ਸ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟੀ**ਨੂੰ**) **ਰਚ**ਕੇ**ਸੰਭਾਲ**ਕਰ**ਰਿਹਾ**ਹੈ।**ਸੋਇ** = **ਉਹੀ**ਅਕਾਲ**ਪੁਰਖ।**ਸੰਸਾਰੁ** = **ਜਨਮ**ਮਰਨ।**❀[/FONT]**ਨੋਟ**: '**ਜਿਸੁ**ਹਥਿ** .....**ਸੋਇ**' **ਇਸ**ਤੁਕ**ਨੂੰ**ਸਮਝਣ**ਲਈ**ਸ਼ਬਦ** '**ਸੋਇ**' **ਅਤੇ** '**ਕਰਿ**ਵੇਖੈ**' **ਵਲ**ਖ਼ਾਸ**ਧਿਆਨ**ਦੇਣ**ਦੀ**ਲੋੜ**ਹੈ।**ਜਪੁਜੀ**ਸਾਹਿਬ**ਵਿਚ**ਸ਼ਬਦ** '**ਸੋਇ**' **ਹੇਠ**-**ਲਿਖੀਆਂ**ਤੁਕਾਂ**ਵਿਚ**ਆਉਂਦਾ**ਹੈ**: (**੧**) **ਆਪੇ**ਆਪਿ**ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ**ਸੋਇ।** ([/FONT]**ਪਉੜੀ**੫**)**।[/FONT]** (**੨**) **ਜਾ**ਕਰਤਾ**ਸਿਰਠੀ**ਕਉ**ਸਾਜੇ**, **ਆਪੇ**ਜਾਣੈ**ਸੋਇ।** (**ਪਉੜੀ**੨੧**)**।[/FONT]** (**੩**) **ਤਿਸੁ**ਊਚੇ**ਕਉ**ਜਾਣੈ**ਸੋਇ।** (**ਪਉੜੀ**੨੪**)**।[/FONT]** (**੪**) **ਨਾਨਕ**ਜਾਣੈ**ਸਾਚਾ**ਸੋਇ।** (**ਪਉੜੀ**੨੬**)**।[/FONT]** (**੫**) **ਸੋਈ**ਸੋਈ**ਸਦਾ**ਸਚੁ**, **ਸਾਹਿਬੁ**ਸਾਚਾ**, **ਸਾਚੀ**ਨਾਈ।** (**ਪਉੜੀ**੨੭**)**।[/FONT]** (**੬**) **ਕਰਹਿ**ਅਨੰਦੁ**ਸਚਾ**ਮਨਿ**ਸੋਇ।** (**ਪਉੜੀ**੩੭**)**।[/FONT]**ਇਹਨਾਂ**ਉਪਰਲੀਆਂ**ਤੁਕਾਂ**ਵਿਚੋਂ**ਕੇਵਲ**ਪਉੜੀ**੨੪**ਵਾਲੀ**ਤੁਕ**ਵਿਚ** '**ਸੋਇ**' **ਪਹਿਲੀ**ਤੁਕ**ਵਾਲੇ** '**ਕੋਇ**' **ਮਨੁੱਖ**ਲਈ**ਆਖਿਆ**ਹੈ**, **ਬਾਕੀ**ਸਭ**ਥਾਈਂ** '**ਅਕਾਲ**ਪੁਰਖ**' **ਵਾਸਤੇ**ਆਇਆ**ਹੈ।**ਇਸੇ**ਹੀ**ਅਰਥ**ਨੂੰ** '**ਕਰਿ**ਵੇਖੈ**' **ਹੋਰ**ਪੱਕਾ**ਕਰਦਾ**ਹੈ।**ਵੇਖੈ** = **ਸੰਭਾਲ**ਕਰਦਾ**ਹੈ**, **ਜਿਵੇਂ**: (**੧**) **ਗਾਵੈ**ਕੋ**ਵੇਖੈ**ਹਾਦਰਾ**ਹਦੂਰਿ।** (**ਪਉੜੀ**੩**)**।[/FONT]** (**੨**) **ਕਰਿ**ਕਰਿ**ਵੇਖੈ**ਕੀਤਾ**ਆਪਣਾ**, **ਜਿਵ**ਤਿਸ**ਦੀ**ਵਡਿਆਈ।** (**ਪਉੜੀ**੨੭**)**।[/FONT]** (**੩**) **ਕਰਿ**ਕਰਿ**ਵੇਖੈ**ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੁ** (**ਪਉੜੀ**੩੧**)**।[/FONT]** (**੪**) **ਓਹੁ**ਵੇਖੈ**ਓਨਾ**ਨਦਰਿ**ਨ**ਆਵੈ**, **ਬਹੁਤਾ**ਏਹੁ**ਵਿਡਾਣੁ।** (**ਪਉੜੀ**੨੭**)**।[/FONT]** (**੫**) **ਕਰਿ**ਕਰਿ**ਵੇਖੈ**ਨਦਰਿ**ਨਿਹਾਲ।** (**ਪਉੜੀ**੩੭**)**।[/FONT]** (**੬**) **ਵੇਖੈ**ਵਿਗਸੈ**ਕਰਿ**ਵੀਚਾਰੁ** (**ਪਉੜੀ**੩੭**)**।[/FONT]

**ਆਤਮਾਕ**ਜਾਗ**ਵਿਚ**,**ਗਿਆਨ**ਵਿਚ**ਅਤੇ**ਵਿਚਾਰ**ਵਿਚ**ਰਹਿਣ**ਦੀ**ਭੀ**ਸਾਡੀ**ਸਮਰਥਾ**ਨਹੀਂ**ਹੈ।**ਉਸ**ਜੁਗਤੀ**ਵਿਚ**ਰਹਿਣ**ਲਈ**ਭੀ**ਸਾਡਾ**ਇਖ਼ਤਿਆਰ**ਨਹੀਂ**ਹੈ**, **ਜਿਸ**ਕਰ**ਕੇ**ਜਨਮ**ਮਰਨ**ਮੁੱਕ**ਜਾਂਦਾ**ਹੈ।**ਉਹੀ**ਅਕਾਲ**-**ਪੁਰਖ**ਰਚਨਾ**ਰਚ**ਕੇ** (**ਉਸ**ਦੀ**ਹਰ**ਪਰਕਾਰ**) **ਸੰਭਾਲ**ਕਰਦਾ**ਹੈ**, **ਜਿਸ**ਦੇ**ਹੱਥ**ਵਿਚ**ਸਮਰੱਥਾ**ਹੈ।**ਹੇ**ਨਾਨਕ**! **ਆਪਣੇ**ਆਪ**ਵਿਚ**ਨਾਹ**ਕੋਈ**ਮਨੁੱਖ**ਉੱਤਮ**ਹੈ**ਅਤੇ**ਨਾਹ**ਹੀ**ਨੀਚ** (**ਭਾਵ**, **ਜੀਵਾਂ**ਨੂੰ**ਸਦਾਚਾਰੀ**ਜਾਂ**ਦੁਰਾਚਾਰੀ**ਬਣਾਣ**ਵਾਲਾ**ਉਹ**ਪ੍ਰਭੂ**ਆਪ**ਹੀ**ਹੈ**)(**ਜੇ**ਸਿਮਰਨ**ਦੀ**ਬਰਕਤਿ**ਨਾਲ**ਇਹ**ਨਿਸਚਾ**ਬਣ**ਜਾਏ**ਤਾਂ**ਹੀ**ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾਂ**ਨਾਲੋਂ**ਜੀਵ**ਦੀ**ਵਿੱਥ**ਦੂਰ**ਹੁੰਦੀ**ਹੈ**)**।[/FONT]**੩੩।**❁[/FONT]**ਭਾਵ**: **ਭਲੇ**ਪਾਸੇ**ਤੁਰਨਾ**ਜਾਂ**ਕੁਰਾਹੇ**ਪੈ**ਜਾਣਾ**ਜੀਵਾਂ**ਦੇ**ਆਪਣੇ**ਵੱਸ**ਦੀ**ਗੱਲ**ਨਹੀਂ**, **ਜਿਸ**ਪ੍ਰਭੂ**ਨੇ**ਪੈਦਾ**ਕੀਤੇ**ਹਨ**ਉਹੀ**ਇਹਨਾਂ**ਪੁਤਲੀਆਂ**ਨੂੰ**ਖਿਡਾ**ਰਿਹਾ**ਹੈ।**ਸੋ**, **ਜੇ**ਕੋਈ**ਜੀਵ**ਪ੍ਰਭੂ**ਦੀ**ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ**-**ਸਾਲਾਹ**ਕਰ**ਰਿਹਾ**ਹੈ**ਤਾਂ**ਇਹ**ਪ੍ਰਭੂ**ਦੀ**ਆਪਣੀ**ਮਿਹਰ**ਹੈ**; **ਜੇ**ਕੋਈ**ਇਸ**ਪਾਸੇ**ਵਲੋਂ**ਖੁੰਝਾ**ਪਿਆ**ਹੈ**ਤਾਂ**ਭੀ**ਇਹ**ਮਾਲਕ**ਦੀ**ਰਜ਼ਾ**ਹੈ।**ਜੇ**ਅਸੀਂ**ਉਸ**ਦੇ**ਦਰ**ਤੋਂ**ਦਾਤਾਂ**ਮੰਗਦੇ**ਹਾਂ**ਤਾਂ**ਇਹ**ਪ੍ਰੇਰਨਾ**ਭੀ**ਉਹ**ਆਪ**ਹੀ**ਕਰਨ**ਵਾਲਾ**ਹੈ**, **ਤੇ**ਫਿਰ**, **ਦਾਤਾਂ**ਦੇਂਦਾ**ਭੀ**ਆਪ**ਹੀ**ਹੈ।**ਜੇ**ਕੋਈ**ਜੀਵ**ਰਾਜ**ਤੇ**ਧਨ**ਦੇ**ਮਦ**ਵਿਚ**ਮੱਤਾ**ਪਿਆ**ਹੈ**,**ਇਹ**ਭੀ**ਰਜ਼ਾ**ਪ੍ਰਭੂ**ਦੀ**ਹੀ**ਹੈ**; **ਜੇ**ਕਿਸੇ**ਦੀ**ਸੁਰਤ**ਪ੍ਰਭੂ**-**ਚਰਨਾਂ**ਵਿਚ**ਹੈ**ਤੇ**ਜੀਵਨ**-**ਜੁਗਤਿ**ਸੁਥਰੀ**ਹੈ**ਤਾਂ**ਇਹ**ਮਿਹਰ**ਭੀ**ਪ੍ਰਭੂ**ਦੀ**ਹੀ**ਹੈ।੩੩**।[/FONT] *
*Thanks.  NOTE Translation of above post is given in one of the posts that follow it)
Gurvinder ji look at SGGS 915, Fifth Nanak
* *ਤੁਮਰੀ  ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ  ਤੇ  ਲਾਗੀ  ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ  ॥ ਦਇਆਲ  ਭਏ  ਤਾ  ਆਏ  ਚੀਤਿ  ॥ ਦਇਆ  ਧਾਰੀ  ਤਿਨਿ  ਧਾਰਣਹਾਰ  ॥ ਬੰਧਨ  ਤੇ  ਹੋਈ  ਛੁਟਕਾਰ  ॥੭॥ *
*Ŧumrī kirpā ṯe lāgī parīṯ. Ḏa▫i▫āl bẖa▫e ṯā ā▫e cẖīṯ. Ḏa▫i▫ā ḏẖārī ṯin ḏẖāraṇhār. Banḏẖan ṯe ho▫ī cẖẖutkār. ||7|| *
*By Thine grace, O Lord, Thy love is enshrined. When Thou becomest merciful, then alone Thou art contemplated. When He, the Upholder of the earth showered His benediction, then alone was I relieved of my entanglements. (Tr Manmohan Singh)  
*


*Again all is credited to HIM our beloved Master.
*


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## spnadmin

I have to interrupt the flow of the discussion. Please forgive me. A new trend has been posting large segments of a reply in only punjabi. It has always occurred here, but now it is happening a lot. Please provide an English translation whenever you post a Punjabi explanation or katha as many or maybe even most of the SPN members are not fluent in classical Punjabi. Thank you: aad0002


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## pk70

aad0002 said:


> I have to interrupt the flow of the discussion. Please forgive me. A new trend has been posting large segments of a reply in only punjabi. It has always occurred here, but now it is happening a lot. Please provide an English translation whenever you post a Punjabi explanation or katha as many or maybe even most of the SPN members are not fluent in classical Punjabi. Thank you: aad0002




*aad Jio

Translation of the Sloka in English is already there in blue fonts, the Punjabi part is interpretation of Sahib Singh ji of the  same sloka. When already the sloka is translated what is the need of translating Dr Sahib Singh interpretation?
*


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## spnadmin

pk70 said:


> *aad Jio
> 
> Translation of the Sloka in English is already there in blue fonts, the Punjabi part is interpretation of Sahib Singh ji of the  same sloka. When already the sloka is translated what is the need of translating Dr Sahib Singh interpretation?
> *



Veer ji

This is the part I am talking about *... the interpretation of Dr. Sahib Singh ji. *Would you be so kind as to provide a brief translation of Dr. Sahib Singh. We have asked that the translations of Bhai Vir Singh, Gyani Thakur Singh, and Sant Muskeen Singh ji also be provided rather than the Punjabi only. As it is one might not even realize that the text is an explanation by Professor Sahib Singh ji. This is a forum rule so that everyone can participate in all parts of a discussion.  thanks so much.


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## pk70

aad0002 said:


> Veer ji
> 
> This is the part I am talking about *... the interpretation of Dr. Sahib Singh ji. *Would you be so kind as to provide a brief translation of Dr. Sahib Singh. We have asked that the translations of Bhai Vir Singh, Gyani Thakur Singh, and Sant Muskeen Singh ji also be provided rather than the Punjabi only. As it is one might not even realize that the text is an explanation by Professor Sahib Singh ji. This is a forum rule so that everyone can participate in all parts of a discussion.  thanks so much.




*Respectfully here it is aad Jio*

*ਆਤਮਾਕ**ਜਾਗ**ਵਿਚ**,**ਗਿਆਨ**ਵਿਚ**ਅਤੇ**ਵਿਚਾਰ**ਵਿਚ**ਰਹਿਣ**ਦੀ**ਭੀ**ਸਾਡੀ**ਸਮਰਥਾ**ਨਹੀਂ**ਹੈ।**ਉਸ**ਜੁਗਤੀ**ਵਿਚ**ਰਹਿਣ**ਲਈ**ਭੀ**ਸਾਡਾ**ਇਖ਼ਤਿਆਰ**ਨਹੀਂ**ਹੈ**, **ਜਿਸ**ਕਰ**ਕੇ**ਜਨਮ**ਮਰਨ**ਮੁੱਕ**ਜਾਂਦਾ**ਹੈ।**ਉਹੀ**ਅਕਾਲ**-**ਪੁਰਖ**ਰਚਨਾ**ਰਚ**ਕੇ** (**ਉਸ**ਦੀ**ਹਰ**ਪਰਕਾਰ**) **ਸੰਭਾਲ**ਕਰਦਾ**ਹੈ**, **ਜਿਸ**ਦੇ**ਹੱਥ**ਵਿਚ**ਸਮਰੱਥਾ**ਹੈ।**ਹੇ**ਨਾਨਕ**! **ਆਪਣੇ**ਆਪ**ਵਿਚ**ਨਾਹ**ਕੋਈ**ਮਨੁੱਖ**ਉੱਤਮ**ਹੈ**ਅਤੇ**ਨਾਹ**ਹੀ**ਨੀਚ** (**ਭਾਵ**, **ਜੀਵਾਂ**ਨੂੰ**ਸਦਾਚਾਰੀ**ਜਾਂ**ਦੁਰਾਚਾਰੀ**ਬਣਾਣ**ਵਾਲਾ**ਉਹ**ਪ੍ਰਭੂ**ਆਪ**ਹੀ**ਹੈ**)(**ਜੇ**ਸਿਮਰਨ**ਦੀ**ਬਰਕਤਿ**ਨਾਲ**ਇਹ**ਨਿਸਚਾ**ਬਣ**ਜਾਏ**ਤਾਂ**ਹੀ**ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾਂ**ਨਾਲੋਂ**ਜੀਵ**ਦੀ**ਵਿੱਥ**ਦੂਰ**ਹੁੰਦੀ**ਹੈ**)**।[/FONT]**੩੩।**❁[/FONT]**ਭਾਵ**: **ਭਲੇ**ਪਾਸੇ**ਤੁਰਨਾ**ਜਾਂ**ਕੁਰਾਹੇ**ਪੈ**ਜਾਣਾ**ਜੀਵਾਂ**ਦੇ**ਆਪਣੇ**ਵੱਸ**ਦੀ**ਗੱਲ**ਨਹੀਂ**, **ਜਿਸ**ਪ੍ਰਭੂ**ਨੇ**ਪੈਦਾ**ਕੀਤੇ**ਹਨ**ਉਹੀ**ਇਹਨਾਂ**ਪੁਤਲੀਆਂ**ਨੂੰ**ਖਿਡਾ**ਰਿਹਾ**ਹੈ।**ਸੋ**, **ਜੇ**ਕੋਈ**ਜੀਵ**ਪ੍ਰਭੂ**ਦੀ**ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ**-**ਸਾਲਾਹ**ਕਰ**ਰਿਹਾ**ਹੈ**ਤਾਂ**ਇਹ**ਪ੍ਰਭੂ**ਦੀ**ਆਪਣੀ**ਮਿਹਰ**ਹੈ**; **ਜੇ**ਕੋਈ**ਇਸ**ਪਾਸੇ**ਵਲੋਂ**ਖੁੰਝਾ**ਪਿਆ**ਹੈ**ਤਾਂ**ਭੀ**ਇਹ**ਮਾਲਕ**ਦੀ**ਰਜ਼ਾ**ਹੈ।**ਜੇ**ਅਸੀਂ**ਉਸ**ਦੇ**ਦਰ**ਤੋਂ**ਦਾਤਾਂ**ਮੰਗਦੇ**ਹਾਂ**ਤਾਂ**ਇਹ**ਪ੍ਰੇਰਨਾ**ਭੀ**ਉਹ**ਆਪ**ਹੀ**ਕਰਨ**ਵਾਲਾ**ਹੈ**, **ਤੇ**ਫਿਰ**, **ਦਾਤਾਂ**ਦੇਂਦਾ**ਭੀ**ਆਪ**ਹੀ**ਹੈ।**ਜੇ**ਕੋਈ**ਜੀਵ**ਰਾਜ**ਤੇ**ਧਨ**ਦੇ**ਮਦ**ਵਿਚ**ਮੱਤਾ**ਪਿਆ**ਹੈ**,**ਇਹ**ਭੀ**ਰਜ਼ਾ**ਪ੍ਰਭੂ**ਦੀ**ਹੀ**ਹੈ**; **ਜੇ**ਕਿਸੇ**ਦੀ**ਸੁਰਤ**ਪ੍ਰਭੂ**-**ਚਰਨਾਂ**ਵਿਚ**ਹੈ**ਤੇ**ਜੀਵਨ**-**ਜੁਗਤਿ**ਸੁਥਰੀ**ਹੈ**ਤਾਂ**ਇਹ**ਮਿਹਰ**ਭੀ**ਪ੍ਰਭੂ**ਦੀ**ਹੀ**ਹੈ।੩੩**।[/FONT] *
*Thanks.*
*We have no power to have divine knowledge; we don’t have  power to  obtain that state of mind where fear of birth and death goes away.  All this is in the power of the Akaalpurakh who Himself creates the creation and takes care of it. Nanak says no one is high or low by him or herself( means Lord Himself saves or misleads the beings)( If mind believes completely that through Simran the separation from Lord is eliminated) Means to go on right or wrong path is not in the hands of the beings , the Creator who has created them makes them play as He wills. If anyone is into praising of the Creator, it’s because of His Grace, if anyone misses the right path, it is also His Ordinance. If we ask gifts from Him, it is also due to His inspiration and He himself gives the gifts. If anyone is slumbered in intoxication of wealth, it happens also due to His will. If anyone is imbued with His Naam and have divine knowledge(right pure way of living), it is also because of His will*


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## spnadmin

pk70 ji

Thank you. And a lot of members thank you and will not feel left out of the conversation.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

PK70 Ji,
I understand Aad Jis concerns. To a non-punjabi knowing person..a large chunk of gurmukhi must seem intimidating...I know I would be intimidated seeing one entire para in "Spanish"..i may even feel like left out. To us who know Punajbi..well we sometimes overlook ( me too..) the need to state the obvious !!but we have to...simply because not everyone is at the same wavelength as language is concerned..
Thank You for a beautiful explanation of Sahib Singh....I am waiting for the day when his SGGSDARPAN gets:happy: translated into English...


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## Tejwant Singh

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> PK70 Ji,
> I understand Aad Jis concerns. To a non-punjabi knowing person..a large chunk of gurmukhi must seem intimidating...I know I would be intimidated seeing one entire para in "Spanish"..i may even feel like left out. To us who know Punajbi..well we sometimes overlook ( me too..) the need to state the obvious !!but we have to...simply because not everyone is at the same wavelength as language is concerned..
> Thank You for a beautiful explanation of Sahib Singh....I am waiting for the day when his SGGSDARPAN gets:happy: translated into English...


 
Gyani ji,

Guru Fateh.

I totally agree with you because the literal translations  in English by Sant Singh Khalsa ji and Manmohan Singh ji are at times misleading and full of distortions.

So, all of us should do what PK70 ji did i.e. to put in English the way we understand the Shabad by keeping Prof. Sahib Singh ji explaination in Punjabi as our benchmark  because literally translating from Punjabi  to English from Prof. Sahib's could also not do justice to Gurbani at times either.

Tejwant Singh


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## Astroboy

> ਕਬੀਰ ਨਾ ਹਮ ਕੀਆ ਨ ਕਰਹਿਗੇ ਨਾ ਕਰਿ ਸਕੈ ਸਰੀਰੁ ॥
> कबीर ना हम कीआ न करहिगे ना करि सकै सरीरु ॥
> Kabīr nā ham kī▫ā na karhige nā kar sakai sarīr.
> Kabeer, I have not done anything; I shall not do anything; my body cannot do anything.
> 
> ਕਿਆ ਜਾਨਉ ਕਿਛੁ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਆ ਭਇਓ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਕਬੀਰੁ ॥੬੨॥
> Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23905
> किआ जानउ किछु हरि कीआ भइओ कबीरु कबीरु ॥६२॥
> Ki▫ā jān▫o kicẖẖ har kī▫ā bẖa▫i▫o Kabīr Kabīr. ||62||
> I do not know what the Lord has done, but the call has gone out: "Kabeer, Kabeer". ||62||



Here are a few excerpts from Kabir's life (ref: Page 78 of this link : Bhagats of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji | Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy Malaysia - Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy Malaysia)

Sub-headings:

Almighty's Help - "Your son Kabir sent me here to deliver."

Food for the Brahmins -

"The Almighty offered food and gold coins to all the brahmins. The Almighty served the Brahmins with the intention of spreading Kabirji's praise."

"Kabir was delighted to see the Almighty standing in his own physical form."


King Punishes KabirJi - 

"People at the river banks started protesting by saying that the King had committed a sin by drowning Kabirji. When KabirJi said,"Ram Tera aasra" and recited the Bani, the chains that tied his hands and legs broke and he sat crossed legged on the water surface. KabirJi's followers began reciting "Praise to the Great Almighty and Kabir."


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

The "Chains" that bound Bhagat Kabir Ji were NOT the common types made of iron links..used to tie up the buffalo or to lock up the Gates etc....
These CHAINS were those that BIND...us to this World...when we are in a  state of..EH JAG DEKHO..Mauj karo..agla kehne dekhiya...Enjoy THIS world..who has seen the next ??
There is a well written Article...but its all in Punjabi and I will ahve to translate it...may take some time...


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਸੁਪਨੈ ਹੂ ਬਰੜਾਇ ਕੈ ਜਿਹ ਮੁਖਿ ਨਿਕਸੈ ਰਾਮੁ ॥ 
कबीर सुपनै हू बरड़ाइ कै जिह मुखि निकसै रामु ॥ 
Kabīr supnai hū barṛā▫e kai jih mukẖ niksai rām. 
Kabeer, if someone utters the Name of the Lord even in dreams, 

ਤਾ ਕੇ ਪਗ ਕੀ ਪਾਨਹੀ ਮੇਰੇ ਤਨ ਕੋ ਚਾਮੁ ॥੬੩॥ 
ता के पग की पानही मेरे तन को चामु ॥६३॥ 
Ŧā ke pag kī pānhī mere ṯan ko cẖām. ||63|| 
I would make my skin into shoes for his feet. ||63|| 

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Respected Jios

Thanx for the detailed explanation of Selok(62) of Bhagat Kabir Ji. In my opinion , in this selok(63) Bhagat Kabir Ji has glorified the person who even unconsciously recites name of the supreme(rom rom simran). 

Bhul chuk lai maafi ji
Gurvinder Kaur


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਮਾਟੀ  ਕੇ  ਹਮ  ਪੂਤਰੇ  ਮਾਨਸੁ  ਰਾਖਿਓ*ੁ  ਨਾਉ  ॥ 
कबीर माटी के हम पूतरे मानसु राखिओ नाउ ॥ 
Kabīr mātī ke ham pūṯre mānas rākẖi▫o nā▫o. 
Kabeer, we are puppets of clay, but we take the name of mankind. 

ਚਾਰਿ  ਦਿਵਸ  ਕੇ  ਪਾਹੁਨੇ  ਬਡ  ਬਡ  ਰੂੰਧਹਿ  ਠਾਉ  ॥੬੪॥ 
चारि दिवस के पाहुने बड बड रूंधहि ठाउ ॥६४॥ 
Cẖār ḏivas ke pāhune bad bad rūŉḏẖėh ṯẖā▫o. ||64|| 
We are guests here for only a few days, but we take up so much space. ||64||


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## spnadmin

gurvinder_janu said:


> ਕਬੀਰ ਸੁਪਨੈ ਹੂ ਬਰੜਾਇ ਕੈ ਜਿਹ ਮੁਖਿ ਨਿਕਸੈ ਰਾਮੁ ॥
> कबीर सुपनै हू बरड़ाइ कै जिह मुखि निकसै रामु ॥
> Kabīr supnai hū barṛā▫e kai jih mukẖ niksai rām.
> Kabeer, if someone utters the Name of the Lord even in dreams,
> 
> ਤਾ ਕੇ ਪਗ ਕੀ ਪਾਨਹੀ ਮੇਰੇ ਤਨ ਕੋ ਚਾਮੁ ॥੬੩॥
> ता के पग की पानही मेरे तन को चामु ॥६३॥
> Ŧā ke pag kī pānhī mere ṯan ko cẖām. ||63||
> I would make my skin into shoes for his feet. ||63||
> 
> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
> Respected Jios
> 
> Thanx for the detailed explanation of Selok(62) of Bhagat Kabir Ji. In my opinion , in this selok(63) Bhagat Kabir Ji has glorified the person who even unconsciously recites name of the supreme(rom rom simran).
> 
> Bhul chuk lai maafi ji
> Gurvinder Kaur




Kabieer ji has glorified that person, and Kabeer ji has placed every particle of his being at the service of that person. Notice that his skin would be made into "shoes" -- he would protect the feet of that person, as one touches and venerates the "feet" of the Guru. The lowest part, the part that touches the ground. He would not become a coat or a hat -- but shoes.


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਮਹਿਦੀ  ਕਰਿ  ਘਾਲਿਆ  ਆਪੁ  ਪੀਸਾਇ  ਪੀਸਾਇ  ॥ 
कबीर महिदी करि घालिआ आपु पीसाइ पीसाइ ॥ 
Kabīr mahiḏī kar gẖāli▫ā āp pīsā▫e pīsā▫e. 
Kabeer, I have made myself into henna, and I grind myself into powder. 

ਤੈ  ਸਹ  ਬਾਤ  ਨ  ਪੂਛੀਐ  ਕਬਹੁ  ਨ  ਲਾਈ  ਪਾਇ  ॥੬੫॥ 
तै सह बात न पूछीऐ कबहु न लाई पाइ ॥६५॥ 
Ŧai sah bāṯ na pūcẖẖī▫ai kabahu na lā▫ī pā▫e. ||65|| 
But You, O my Husband Lord, have not asked about me; You have never applied me to Your Feet. ||65||


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

aad0002 said:


> Kabieer ji has glorified that person, and Kabeer ji has placed every particle of his being at the service of that person. Notice that his skin would be made into "shoes" -- he would protect the feet of that person, as one touches and venerates the "feet" of the Guru. The lowest part, the part that touches the ground. He would not become a coat or a hat -- but shoes.



Yes aad ji..you have got the "kernel" in this case..the very essence of what Kabeer ji is saying.

On a related note...have you noticed that just about everyone shouts...OMG..OH MY GOD !!
so much....or "JESUS..did you really do that ?? etc etc..
Does this "count" towards..Sappneh mehn barrraei keh...even during a nightmare..the person who shouts "MERE RAAM" Waheguru..or similar is worthy ??
Is Kabeer ji going for soemthing deeper than just merely MOUTHING !! somethign to wonder ??

Have a Happy Khasla day everyone..


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਜਿਹ ਦਰਿ ਆਵਤ ਜਾਤਿਅਹੁ ਹਟਕੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥ 
कबीर जिह दरि आवत जातिअहु हटकै नाही कोइ ॥ 
Kabīr jih ḏar āvaṯ jāṯi▫ahu hatkai nāhī ko▫e. 
Kabeer, that door, through which people never stop coming and going - 

ਸੋ ਦਰੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਛੋਡੀਐ ਜੋ ਦਰੁ ਐਸਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੬੬॥ 
सो दरु कैसे छोडीऐ जो दरु ऐसा होइ ॥६६॥ 
So ḏar kaise cẖẖodī▫ai jo ḏar aisā ho▫e. ||66|| 
how can I leave such a door as that? ||66|| 

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Respected Jios
What/where is the door mentioned by Kabir Ji in this selok. If anyone can enlighten please.
Regards
Bhul chuk lai maafi ji


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## spnadmin

namjap said:


> ਕਬੀਰ  ਮਾਟੀ  ਕੇ  ਹਮ  ਪੂਤਰੇ  ਮਾਨਸੁ  ਰਾਖਿਓ*ੁ  ਨਾਉ  ॥
> कबीर माटी के हम पूतरे मानसु राखिओ नाउ ॥
> Kabīr mātī ke ham pūṯre mānas rākẖi▫o nā▫o.
> Kabeer, we are puppets of clay, but we take the name of mankind.
> 
> ਚਾਰਿ  ਦਿਵਸ  ਕੇ  ਪਾਹੁਨੇ  ਬਡ  ਬਡ  ਰੂੰਧਹਿ  ਠਾਉ  ॥੬੪॥
> चारि दिवस के पाहुने बड बड रूंधहि ठाउ ॥६४॥
> Cẖār ḏivas ke pāhune bad bad rūŉḏẖėh ṯẖā▫o. ||64||
> We are guests here for only a few days, but we take up so much space. ||64||



I knew what it meant but it took days to put into words. We, says Kabeer, are puppets, and as such we have no will or power of our own. We suffer from the problem of self-inflation. Made of earth and water, like puppets we crumble when our clay is dry,  and turn to mush when it is wet. At the mercy of natural forces, we still dare to give ourselves a name "mankind" thinking to set ourselves apart from the rest of creation. We are guests of the universe, and the visit is short, yet we dare to believe that we can dominate the space and time that  we do not own.


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## spnadmin

namjap said:


> ਕਬੀਰ  ਮਹਿਦੀ  ਕਰਿ  ਘਾਲਿਆ  ਆਪੁ  ਪੀਸਾਇ  ਪੀਸਾਇ  ॥
> कबीर महिदी करि घालिआ आपु पीसाइ पीसाइ ॥
> Kabīr mahiḏī kar gẖāli▫ā āp pīsā▫e pīsā▫e.
> Kabeer, I have made myself into henna, and I grind myself into powder.
> 
> ਤੈ  ਸਹ  ਬਾਤ  ਨ  ਪੂਛੀਐ  ਕਬਹੁ  ਨ  ਲਾਈ  ਪਾਇ  ॥੬੫॥
> तै सह बात न पूछीऐ कबहु न लाई पाइ ॥६५॥
> Ŧai sah bāṯ na pūcẖẖī▫ai kabahu na lā▫ī pā▫e. ||65||
> But You, O my Husband Lord, have not asked about me; You have never applied me to Your Feet. ||65||



Here Kabeer laments his lack of connection to the Divine Creator. "You have never applied me to Your Feet." We are back to feet -- a constant metaphor throughout Gurbani. Touching the guru's feet, washing the guru's feet, these are not metaphors but rituals from the vedantic past and are based on belief that the current of divine energy that can be gained by the student of a guru is reached through the guru's feet. 

In Sri Guru Granth Sahib, this older idea emerges in a transformed way. Gurbani has the lotus feet of the Guru *attached in the heart* of the Gurmukh. The Guru is in the Gurmukh and the Gurmukh is in the Guru when they are one. Kabeer is longing for this kind of connection. He says he has ground himself to henna powder -- the traditional substance to paint the feet of one who is going to wed. Kabeer is longing to be attached in this way, to be painted on the feet of the Husband Lord, to be that close to the current of the divine, completely attached to the source.  He is patiently waiting to be called to this spiritual attachment.


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## spnadmin

_ Some notes about the Feet of the Guru_
"The Feet of the Guru comes from the guru-devotee relationship whose tradition grew out of India. The energy of the true Spiritual teacher is most potent at the feet, and is a place of adoration and worship."  Source; http://www.hennahappiness.com/symbols.html
This is one of the designs that is painted with henna in the art of mehindi where a bride's feet and hands are painted the night before her wedding. 

Service of the feet of a guru -- washing a guru's feet  -- is recognized in the name Chananjit. The feet of a Guru being a sacred symbol for thousands of years.


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## spnadmin

gurvinder_janu said:


> ਕਬੀਰ ਜਿਹ ਦਰਿ ਆਵਤ ਜਾਤਿਅਹੁ ਹਟਕੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥
> कबीर जिह दरि आवत जातिअहु हटकै नाही कोइ ॥
> Kabīr jih ḏar āvaṯ jāṯi▫ahu hatkai nāhī ko▫e.
> Kabeer, that door, through which people never stop coming and going -
> 
> ਸੋ ਦਰੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਛੋਡੀਐ ਜੋ ਦਰੁ ਐਸਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੬੬॥
> सो दरु कैसे छोडीऐ जो दरु ऐसा होइ ॥६६॥
> So ḏar kaise cẖẖodī▫ai jo ḏar aisā ho▫e. ||66||
> how can I leave such a door as that? ||66||
> 
> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
> Respected Jios
> What/where is the door mentioned by Kabir Ji in this selok. If anyone can enlighten please.
> Regards
> Bhul chuk lai maafi ji



Gurvinder_janu ji 

Many thanks for the guiding question. This is a hard one I think. Should we think of the dhar, dar, door, in two ways? Kabeer ji is talking about a door that one never leaves. Usually we pass in and out of a door, we don't just stand there. When we are blinded by ignorance,this leads over and over to pain and suffering. Without reaching the vision of his darshan, we never stop passing through the door of pain and suffering.  As Guru Arjan Dev ji explains the same idea. The idea is to stop passing in and out of the door of pain and suffering by receiving the teachings of the Satguru.

Ang 717

  ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਕਾਟੇ ਗੁਰ ਬਚਨੀ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਸੰਕਟ ਦੁਆਰਾ ॥
  janam maran kaattae gur bachanee bahurr n sankatt dhuaaraa ||
  Birth and death are ended for me, by the Word of the Guru's Teachings; I shall no longer pass through the door of pain and suffering.


Kabeer ji is praying that he/we will find a door where beg and are graced with His presence. And he/we will never leave that door. There is no suffering there

Ang 323 (also by Guru Arjan Devji)

ਢਾਢੀ ਦਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੰਗਣਾ ਦਰੁ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਛੋੜੇ ॥
  dtaadtee dhar prabh manganaa dhar kadhae n shhorrae ||
  The minstrel begs at God's Door - he shall never leave that Door.


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## kiram

Guru Arjan Dev Ji : 

 *ਸਲੋਕ  ਮਃ  ੫  ॥ਤਿੰਨਾ  ਭੁਖ  ਨ  ਕਾ  ਰਹੀ  ਜਿਸ  ਦਾ  ਪ੍ਰਭੁ  ਹੈ  ਸੋਇ  ॥ਨਾਨਕ  ਚਰਣੀ  ਲਗਿਆ  ਉਧਰੈ  ਸਭੋ  ਕੋਇ  ॥੧॥*
Salok mėhlā 5.Ŧinnā bẖukẖ na kā rahī jis ḏā parabẖ hai so▫e.Nānak cẖarṇī lagi▫ā uḏẖrai sabẖo ko▫e. ||1||


Slok 5th Guru.He who has Him as his Lord is left with no hunger.Nanak, everyone who falls at his feet is saved.


ਕਾ = ਕੋਈ, ਕਿਸੇ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੀ। ਸਭੋ ਕੋਇ = ਹਰੇਕ ਜੀਵ।੧।

ਜਿਸ ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੇ ਸਿਰ ਤੇ ਰਾਖਾ ਉਹ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਹੈ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੀ) ਕੋਈ ਭੁੱਖ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਹਿ ਜਾਂਦੀ। ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਚਰਨੀਂ ਲੱਗਿਆਂ ਹਰੇਕ ਜੀਵ ਮਾਇਆ ਦੀ ਭੁੱਖ ਤੋਂ ਬਚ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।੧। 

 *ਮਃ  ੫  ॥ਜਾਚਿਕੁ  ਮੰਗੈ  ਨਿਤ  ਨਾਮੁ  ਸਾਹਿਬੁ  ਕਰੇ  ਕਬੂਲੁ  ॥ਨਾਨਕ  ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ  ਜਜਮਾਨੁ  ਤਿਸਹਿ  ਭੁਖ  ਨ  ਮੂਲਿ  ॥੨॥*
Mėhlā 5.Jācẖik mangai niṯ nām sāhib kare kabūl.Nānak parmesar jajmān ṯisėh bẖukẖ na mūl. ||2||


5th Guru.Nanak if the beggar daily begs for the Name the Lord grants his request.The Lord is my alms-giver, O Nanak and He has absolutely no want.


ਜਾਚਿਕੁ = ਮੰਗਤਾ। ਜਜਮਾਨੁ = ਦੱਛਨਾ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲਾ। ਨ ਮੂਲਿ = ਰਤਾ ਭੀ ਨਹੀਂ।੨।

(ਜੋ ਮਨੁੱਖ) ਮੰਗਤਾ (ਬਣ ਕੇ ਮਾਲਕ-ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਤੋਂ) ਸਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਮੰਗਦਾ ਹੈ (ਉਸ ਦੀ ਅਰਜ਼) ਮਾਲਕ ਕਬੂਲ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦਾ ਜਜਮਾਨ (ਆਪ) ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਹੈ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਰਤਾ ਭੀ (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੀ) ਭੁੱਖ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਹਿੰਦੀ।੨। 

 *ਪਉੜੀ  ॥ਮਨੁ  ਰਤਾ  ਗੋਵਿੰਦ  ਸੰਗਿ  ਸਚੁ  ਭੋਜਨੁ  ਜੋੜੇ  ॥ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ  ਲਗੀ  ਹਰਿ  ਨਾਮ  ਸਿਉ  ਏ  ਹਸਤੀ  ਘੋੜੇ  ॥ਰਾਜ  ਮਿਲਖ  ਖੁਸੀਆ  ਘਣੀ  ਧਿਆਇ  ਮੁਖੁ  ਨ  ਮੋੜੇ  ॥ਢਾਢੀ  ਦਰਿ  ਪ੍ਰਭ  ਮੰਗਣਾ  ਦਰੁ  ਕਦੇ  ਨ  ਛੋੜੇ  ॥ਨਾਨਕ  ਮਨਿ  ਤਨਿ  ਚਾਉ  ਏਹੁ  ਨਿਤ  ਪ੍ਰਭ  ਕਉ  ਲੋੜੇ  ॥੨੧॥੧॥  ਸੁਧੁ  ਕੀਚੇ*
Pa▫oṛī.Man raṯā govinḏ sang sacẖ bẖojan joṛe.Parīṯ lagī har nām si▫o e hasṯī gẖoṛe.Rāj milakẖ kẖusī▫ā gẖaṇī ḏẖi▫ā▫e mukẖ na moṛe.Dẖādẖī ḏar parabẖ mangṇā ḏar kaḏe na cẖẖoṛe.Nānak man ṯan cẖā▫o ehu niṯ parabẖ ka▫o loṛe. ||21||1|| suḏẖ kīcẖe


Pauri.To be imbued with the Lord is man's true viand and wear.The embracing of love for God's Name is to possess elephants and horses.To unswervingly remember God is to possess kingdom, property and abundant amusements.The minstrel is to beg the Lord's door which he is never going to leave.Within Nanak's mind and body is this eagerness: that he, ever, longs for the Lord.


ਸਚੁ = ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਨਾਮ। ਜੋੜੇ = ਪੁਸ਼ਾਕੇ। ਏ = ਇਹ ਪ੍ਰੀਤ। ਹਸਤੀ = ਹਾਥੀ। ਮਿਲਖ = ਜ਼ਮੀਨਾਂ। ਘਣੀ = ਬੜੀਆਂ। ਢਾਢੀ = ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ। ਦਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ = ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਦਰ ਤੇ। ਸੁਧੁ ਕੀਚੇ = ਸੁੱਧ ਕਰ ਲੈਣਾ।੨੧।

(ਜੋ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਉਸ ਦਾ) ਮਨ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਰੰਗਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਚੰਗੇ ਭੋਜਨ ਤੇ ਪੁਸ਼ਾਕੇ ਹੈ। ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਨਾਲ ਉਸ ਦਾ ਪਿਆਰ ਬਣ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਇਹੀ ਉਸ ਲਈ ਹਾਥੀ ਤੇ ਘੋੜੇ ਹੈ। ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਤੋਂ ਕਦੇ ਉਹ ਅੱਕਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ, ਇਹੀ ਉਸ ਲਈ ਰਾਜ ਜ਼ਮੀਨਾਂ ਤੇ ਬੇਅੰਤ ਖ਼ੁਸ਼ੀਆਂ ਹਨ, ਉਹ ਢਾਡੀ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਦਰ ਤੋਂ ਸਦਾ ਮੰਗਦਾ ਹੈ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਦਰ ਕਦੇ ਛੱਡਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ। ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਦੇ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਤਨ ਵਿਚ ਸਦਾ ਚਾਉ ਬਣਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ; ਉਹ ਸਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ ਮਿਲਣ ਲਈ ਹੀ ਤਾਂਘਦਾ ਹੈ।੨੧।੧।ਸੁੱਧ ਕਰ ਲੈਣਾ। ❀ ਨੋਟ: ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਰਤਾਰਪੁਰ ਵਾਲੀ ਬੀੜ ਵਿਚ ਇਹ ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ ਹਾਸ਼ੀਏ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਹਰ ਹਨ। ਉਂਞ 'ਵਾਰ' ਦੇ ਮੁੱਕਣ ਤੇ ਬਾਕੀ ਕਾਫ਼ੀ ਪੱਤ੍ਰਾ ਖ਼ਾਲੀ ਪਿਆ ਹੈ। ਇਸ ਦਾ ਭਾਵ ਇਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ਾਂ ਦਾ 'ਬਾਣੀ' ਨਾਲ ਕੋਈ ਸੰਬੰਧ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈ। ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ 'ਸੁਧੁ ਕੀਚੇ' ਸਿਰਫ਼ ਇਸ 'ਵਾਰ' ਨਾਲ ਹੈ। ਬਾਕੀ 'ਵਾਰਾਂ' ਨਾਲ ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ 'ਸੁਧੁ' ਹਾਸ਼ੀਏ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਹਰ ਵਰਤਿਆ ਹੈ।


Ang. 323

http://sikhroots.com/zina/Keertani ...amaljeet Singh/Dar Kade Na Chhode.mp3?l=8&m=1 
  

P.S. Aad ji thank you for sharing above the beautiful vaak which led me to find much happiness & thought of posting the complete Salok...


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## Astroboy

The faithful find the* Door* of Liberation.
*Guru Nanak Dev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਡੂਬਾ ਥਾ ਪੈ ਉਬਰਿਓ ਗੁਨ ਕੀ ਲਹਰਿ ਝਬਕਿ ॥ 
कबीर डूबा था पै उबरिओ गुन की लहरि झबकि ॥ 
Kabīr dūbā thā pai ubri▫o gun kī lahar jẖabak. 
Kabeer, I was drowning, but the waves of virtue saved me in an instant. 
ਜਬ ਦੇਖਿਓ ਬੇੜਾ ਜਰਜਰਾ ਤਬ ਉਤਰਿ ਪਰਿਓ ਹਉ ਫਰਕਿ ॥੬੭॥ 
जब देखिओ बेड़ा जरजरा तब उतरि परिओ हउ फरकि ॥६७॥ 
Jab ḏekẖi▫o beṛā jarjarā ṯab uṯar pari▫o ha▫o farak. ||67|| 
When I saw that my boat was rotten, then I immediately got out. ||67||


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਪਾਪੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਭਾਵਈ ਹਰਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਨ ਸੁਹਾਇ ॥ 
कबीर पापी भगति न भावई हरि पूजा न सुहाइ ॥ 
Kabīr pāpī bẖagaṯ na bẖāv▫ī har pūjā na suhā▫e. 
Kabeer, the sinner does not like devotion to the Lord; he does not appreciate worship. 

ਮਾਖੀ ਚੰਦਨੁ ਪਰਹਰੈ ਜਹ ਬਿਗੰਧ ਤਹ ਜਾਇ ॥੬੮॥ 
माखी चंदनु परहरै जह बिगंध तह जाइ ॥६८॥ 
Mākẖī cẖanḏan parharai jah biganḏẖ ṯah jā▫e. ||68|| 
The fly abandons the sandalwood tree, and goes after the rotten smell. ||68||


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## spnadmin

gurvinder_janu said:


> ਕਬੀਰ ਡੂਬਾ ਥਾ ਪੈ ਉਬਰਿਓ ਗੁਨ ਕੀ ਲਹਰਿ ਝਬਕਿ ॥
> कबीर डूबा था पै उबरिओ गुन की लहरि झबकि ॥
> Kabīr dūbā thā pai ubri▫o gun kī lahar jẖabak.
> Kabeer, I was drowning, but the waves of virtue saved me in an instant.
> ਜਬ ਦੇਖਿਓ ਬੇੜਾ ਜਰਜਰਾ ਤਬ ਉਤਰਿ ਪਰਿਓ ਹਉ ਫਰਕਿ ॥੬੭॥
> जब देखिओ बेड़ा जरजरा तब उतरि परिओ हउ फरकि ॥६७॥
> Jab ḏekẖi▫o beṛā jarjarā ṯab uṯar pari▫o ha▫o farak. ||67||
> When I saw that my boat was rotten, then I immediately got out. ||67||



Gurvinder ji

Here is what I find interesting about this seloka. This is not my understanding but almost like an instant reflection on the words.

Kabeer ji says he is drowning -- probably within himself, within his ego, the attachments of mind to illusions of maya. What saves him is outside of himself, *waves of virtue* are what carries him to the shore. I think this is important to note because it explains how Sikhism sees the source of virtue -- virtue comes from the Satguru. Virtue is bestowed by the grace of the Satguru, and He saves us by his mercy because He is an ocean of mercy. So Kabeer will not drown in the ocean. Instead he will be saved by the ocean of virtue coming from Akaal -- who is the protector and sustainer of everything. We are nothing ourselves without Him and would vanish without His support.

Kabeer is also saying that he sees that his boat is rotten and he gets out. Which is a brilliant image. It is the most natural thing to get out of a rotten boat, for how will it do any good to stay there? But when he gets out of the boat where does he go? He goes into the ocean where he knows he will not drown. Kabeer trusts Akaal so much. He is not afraid he will drown in that ocean because  only the ocean will save and sustain him, the ocean of virtue.


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## spnadmin

Guru Arjan Dev ji says something quite similar in the following shabad:


ਮਿਲਹੁ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਜੀਆ ॥ 
milahu piaarae jeeaa ||
Meet with me, O my Dear Beloved.



ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀਆ ਤੁਮਾਰਾ ਥੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
prabh keeaa thumaaraa thheeaa ||1|| rehaao ||
O God, whatever You do - that alone happens. ||1||Pause||



ਅਨਿਕ ਜਨਮ ਬਹੁ ਜੋਨੀ ਭ੍ਰਮਿਆ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ 
anik janam bahu jonee bhramiaa bahur bahur dhukh paaeiaa ||
Wandering around through countless incarnations, I endured pain and suffering in so many lives, over and over again.



ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੇ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹ ਪਾਈ ਹੈ ਦੇਹੁ ਦਰਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ 
thumaree kirapaa thae maanukh dhaeh paaee hai dhaehu dharas har raaeiaa ||1||
By Your Grace, I obtained this human body; grant me the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan, O Sovereign Lord King. ||1||
 


 ਸੋਈ ਹੋਆ ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਣਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕਿਨ ਹੀ ਕੀਤਾ ॥ 
soee hoaa jo this bhaanaa avar n kin hee keethaa ||
That which pleases His Will has come to pass; no one else can do anything.



ਤੁਮਰੈ ਭਾਣੈ ਭਰਮਿ ਮੋਹਿ ਮੋਹਿਆ ਜਾਗਤੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਸੂਤਾ ॥੨॥ 
thumarai bhaanai bharam mohi mohiaa jaagath naahee soothaa ||2||
By Your Will, enticed by the illusion of emotional attachment, the people are asleep; they do not wake up. ||2||



*ਬਿਨਉ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਤੁਮ ਪ੍ਰਾਨਪਤਿ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਨਿਧਿ ਦਇਆਲਾ ॥ 
bino sunahu thum praanapath piaarae kirapaa nidhh dhaeiaalaa ||
Please hear my prayer, O Lord of Life, O Beloved, Ocean of mercy and compassion.



ਰਾਖਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਪਿਤਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੇਰੇ ਅਨਾਥਹ ਕਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲਾ ॥੩॥ 
raakh laehu pithaa prabh maerae anaathheh kar prathipaalaa ||3||
Save me, O my Father God. I am an orphan - please, cherish me! ||3||
* 

 
 ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਤੁਮਹਿ ਦਿਖਾਇਓ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਕੈ ਪਾਛੈ ॥ 
jis no thumehi dhikhaaeiou dharasan saadhhasangath kai paashhai ||
You reveal the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan, for the sake of the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy.



ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧੂਰਿ ਦੇਹੁ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੀ ਸੁਖੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਇਹੁ ਬਾਛੈ ॥੪॥੯॥੧੩੦॥ 
kar kirapaa dhhoor dhaehu santhan kee sukh naanak eihu baashhai ||4||9||130||
Grant Your Grace, and bless us with the dust of the feet of the Saints; Nanak yearns for this peace. ||4||9||130||


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## Astroboy

> Originally Posted by *gurvinder_janu*
> 
> 
> _ਕਬੀਰ ਡੂਬਾ ਥਾ ਪੈ ਉਬਰਿਓ ਗੁਨ ਕੀ ਲਹਰਿ ਝਬਕਿ ॥
> कबीर डूबा था पै उबरिओ गुन की लहरि झबकि ॥
> Kabīr dūbā thā pai ubri▫o gun kī lahar jẖabak.
> Kabeer, I was drowning, but the waves of virtue saved me in an instant.
> ਜਬ ਦੇਖਿਓ ਬੇੜਾ ਜਰਜਰਾ ਤਬ ਉਤਰਿ ਪਰਿਓ ਹਉ ਫਰਕਿ ॥੬੭॥
> जब देखिओ बेड़ा जरजरा तब उतरि परिओ हउ फरकि ॥६७॥
> Jab ḏekẖi▫o beṛā jarjarā ṯab uṯar pari▫o ha▫o farak. ||67||
> When I saw that my boat was rotten, then I immediately got out. ||67||
> _


Sri Kabir Ji says that in the ocean of materialistic world where the waves are virtues, and I was drowning in the waves of virtues which was comforting my confidence and increasing my desires for more pleasure (of worldly happiness), in such situation I was pulled out quickly by the realization of ultimate truth obtained from GuruJi's sermon.

When I realized, this physical body (boat) will rot, I quickly got off it and realized that I am a separate entity from it altogether. I am not subject to birth and death, worldly happiness and sorrow, youth and old age, etc.


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## Astroboy

gurvinder_janu said:


> ਕਬੀਰ ਪਾਪੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਭਾਵਈ ਹਰਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਨ ਸੁਹਾਇ ॥
> कबीर पापी भगति न भावई हरि पूजा न सुहाइ ॥
> Kabīr pāpī bẖagaṯ na bẖāv▫ī har pūjā na suhā▫e.
> Kabeer, the sinner does not like devotion to the Lord; he does not appreciate worship.
> 
> ਮਾਖੀ ਚੰਦਨੁ ਪਰਹਰੈ ਜਹ ਬਿਗੰਧ ਤਹ ਜਾਇ ॥੬੮॥
> माखी चंदनु परहरै जह बिगंध तह जाइ ॥६८॥
> Mākẖī cẖanḏan parharai jah biganḏẖ ṯah jā▫e. ||68||
> The fly abandons the sandalwood tree, and goes after the rotten smell. ||68||



KabirJi says that a sinner does not prefer Almighty's meditation, and nor does Almighty's worship suits him. 

Just as the fly forsakes sandal and goes to where there is bad (evil) odor, in the same way, sinners always prefer to disunite with true congregation and joyfully join the evil company. The satisfaction of the desires are ranked highest thus ignoring all the responsibilities of the human i.e. to meditate on the Almighty, serve others, etc.


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## spnadmin

Nam Jap ji

We have almost completely different understandings. I wonder why.


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## Astroboy

Aad Ji,

Virtues of worldly nature is also called _trigun maya_. It takes the hand of the true guru to escape the mesmerizing effect of gunas or virtues. The guru is always within us. At the source of all creation. It is extremely hard to escape the satas guna as it is actually a copy of the real. Like a Xerox copy but even it is subject to dissolution and decay. 

For example the dazzling lights of Brahm Lok equivalent to Sao Chanda and Hajjar Sooraj is still pitch darkness as compared to the ultimate home of souls, Mansarovar Hansla. Without the Guru's sermon, we would be forever stuck in the illusion.


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## spnadmin

Nam Jap ji

I appreciate the description of trigun maya. There are still some ideas in your vichaar that I don't see in the shabad. But things work for now.

Sat Sri Akaal!
Antonia


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## Astroboy

ਹੇ ਕਬੀਰ! (ਸੰਸਾਰ-ਸਮੁੰਦਰ ਵਿਚ) ਮੈਂ ਡੁੱਬ ਚੱਲਿਆ ਸਾਂ, ਪਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਦੀ ਲਹਿਰ ਦੇ ਧੱਕੇ ਨਾਲ (ਸੰਸਾਰਕ ਮੋਹ ਦੀਆਂ ਠਿੱਲਾਂ ਵਿਚੋਂ) ਮੈਂ ਉਤਾਂਹ ਚੁਕਿਆ ਗਿਆ। (ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਮੋਹ ਵਿਚ ਮਸਤ ਸਾਂ, ਹੁਣ ਅੱਖਾਂ ਖੁਲ੍ਹ ਆਈਆਂ) ਉਸ ਵੇਲੇ ਮੈਂ ਵੇਖਿਆ (ਕਿ ਜਿਸ ਸਰੀਰਕ ਮੋਹ ਦੇ ਬੇੜੇ ਵਿਚ ਮੈਂ ਸੁਆਰ ਹਾਂ ਉਹ) ਥੋੜਾ-ਬਹੁਤ ਪੁਰਾਣਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ (ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਛੇਕੋ-ਛੇਕ ਹੋਇਆ ਪਿਆ ਹੈ)। ਮੈਂ ਛਾਲ ਮਾਰ ਕੇ (ਉਸ ਅਪਣੱਤ ਦੇ ਬੇੜੇ ਵਿਚੋਂ) ਉਤਰ ਪਿਆ (ਮੈਂ ਅਪਣੱਤ, ਸਰੀਰਕ ਮੋਹ ਛੱਡ ਦਿੱਤਾ। ਪਰ ਇਹ ਸਭ ਕੁਝ ਇਸੇ ਕਰਕੇ ਸੀ ਕਿ ਮੈਂ ਉਹ 'ਦਰੁ' ਨਾਹ ਛੱਡਿਆ ਜਿਸ ਦਰ ਤੇ ਟਿਕਿਆਂ 'ਹਟਕੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ')।੬੭।

I will try to translate Prof Sahib Singh's version of this selok:

Kabir, I was drowning, but with the powerful surge of the waves of God's praises, I came out of the worldly attachments and got uplifted. Earlier, I indulged in _Moh _but now my eyes are open and in an instant I can see that this physical body _Moh _which I was caught up in is getting very old and I have disowned this boat.


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## spnadmin

NamJap ji

Now Professor Sahib Singh is translating as "but with the powerful surge of the waves of God's praises" and not as the trigun of Maya. 

Not to press the point to hard, but that is much closer to my understanding that the source of support is outside, in the Ocean of the Satguru,

"I think this is important to note because it explains how Sikhism sees the source of virtue -- virtue comes from the Satguru. Virtue is bestowed by the grace of the Satguru, and He saves us by his mercy because He is an ocean of mercy. So Kabeer will not drown in the ocean. Instead he will be saved by the ocean of virtue coming from Akaal."

I do agree that the rotten boat is the body -- though I also would extend that to physical existence in general.


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## Astroboy

Aad Ji,

May God bestow me with His wisdom so that I can excel towards His cause.


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## spnadmin

NamJap ji

Sounds good to me.


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਬੈਦੁ ਮੂਆ ਰੋਗੀ ਮੂਆ ਮੂਆ ਸਭੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥ 
कबीर बैदु मूआ रोगी मूआ मूआ सभु संसारु ॥ 
Kabīr baiḏ mū▫ā rogī mū▫ā mū▫ā sabẖ sansār. 
Kabeer, the physician is dead, and the patient is dead; the whole world is dead. 

ਏਕੁ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਨਾ ਮੂਆ ਜਿਹ ਨਾਹੀ ਰੋਵਨਹਾਰੁ ॥੬੯॥ 
एकु कबीरा ना मूआ जिह नाही रोवनहारु ॥६९॥ 
Ėk kabīrā nā mū▫ā jih nāhī rovanhār. ||69|| 
Only Kabeer is not dead; there is no one to mourn for him. ||69||


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੁ ਨ ਧਿਆਇਓ ਮੋਟੀ ਲਾਗੀ ਖੋਰਿ ॥ 
कबीर रामु न धिआइओ मोटी लागी खोरि ॥ 
Kabīr rām na ḏẖi▫ā▫i▫o motī lāgī kẖor. 
Kabeer, I have not meditated on the Lord; such is the bad habit I have developed. 

ਕਾਇਆ ਹਾਂਡੀ ਕਾਠ ਕੀ ਨਾ ਓਹ ਚਰ੍ਹੈ ਬਹੋਰਿ ॥੭੦॥ 
काइआ हांडी काठ की ना ओह चर्है बहोरि ॥७०॥ 
Kā▫i▫ā hāŉdī kāṯẖ kī nā oh cẖarĥai bahor. ||70||
The body is a wooden pot; it cannot be put back on the fire. ||70||


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

the Wooden Pot analogy.... and the idea of Human Birth so precious..ONLY ONCE !!
Bhagt kabir Ji is asserting this vital point once more...this body is like a wooden pot..can be used only once.....take the opportunity to merge back with your creator..


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਐਸੀ ਹੋਇ ਪਰੀ ਮਨ ਕੋ ਭਾਵਤੁ ਕੀਨੁ ॥ 
कबीर ऐसी होइ परी मन को भावतु कीनु ॥ 
Kabīr aisī ho▫e parī man ko bẖāvaṯ kīn. 
Kabeer, it came to pass, that I did whatever I pleased. 

ਮਰਨੇ ਤੇ ਕਿਆ ਡਰਪਨਾ ਜਬ ਹਾਥਿ ਸਿਧਉਰਾ ਲੀਨ ॥੭੧॥ 
मरने ते किआ डरपना जब हाथि सिधउरा लीन ॥७१॥ 
Marne ṯe ki▫ā darapnā jab hāth siḏẖa▫urā līn. ||71|| 
Why should I be afraid of death? I have invited death for myself. ||71||


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## spnadmin

gurvinder_janu said:


> ਕਬੀਰ ਬੈਦੁ ਮੂਆ ਰੋਗੀ ਮੂਆ ਮੂਆ ਸਭੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥
> कबीर बैदु मूआ रोगी मूआ मूआ सभु संसारु ॥
> Kabīr baiḏ mū▫ā rogī mū▫ā mū▫ā sabẖ sansār.
> Kabeer, the physician is dead, and the patient is dead; the whole world is dead.
> 
> ਏਕੁ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਨਾ ਮੂਆ ਜਿਹ ਨਾਹੀ ਰੋਵਨਹਾਰੁ ॥੬੯॥
> एकु कबीरा ना मूआ जिह नाही रोवनहारु ॥६९॥
> Ėk kabīrā nā mū▫ā jih nāhī rovanhār. ||69||
> Only Kabeer is not dead; there is no one to mourn for him. ||69||




Guru Nanak gives a clue I think, on Ang 22. 

ਮੁਇਆ ਜਿਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਤਿਤੁ ਜੀਵਦਿਆ ਮਰੁ ਮਾਰਿ ॥
  mueiaa jith ghar jaaeeai thith jeevadhiaa mar maar ||
  To reach your True Home after you die, you must conquer death while you are still alive.

Kabir is not dead, for he lives in the " Lord's Love."  The world around him is dead to him, he is not longer attached to it. Why mourn?  He remains quite alive, even when his body is dead to him, and the doctor, who cannot cure the disease of life and death, is dead to him, and the whole world is lies dead to him, because he is one who lives in the Lord's Love.


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## spnadmin

gurvinder_janu said:


> ਕਬੀਰ ਐਸੀ ਹੋਇ ਪਰੀ ਮਨ ਕੋ ਭਾਵਤੁ ਕੀਨੁ ॥
> कबीर ऐसी होइ परी मन को भावतु कीनु ॥
> Kabīr aisī ho▫e parī man ko bẖāvaṯ kīn.
> Kabeer, it came to pass, that I did whatever I pleased.
> 
> ਮਰਨੇ ਤੇ ਕਿਆ ਡਰਪਨਾ ਜਬ ਹਾਥਿ ਸਿਧਉਰਾ ਲੀਨ ॥੭੧॥
> मरने ते किआ डरपना जब हाथि सिधउरा लीन ॥७१॥
> Marne ṯe ki▫ā darapnā jab hāth siḏẖa▫urā līn. ||71||
> Why should I be afraid of death? I have invited death for myself. ||71||




                         Once more in the selokas Kabir demonstrates he is master of poetic irony. 

_A contrast or discrepancy between what is said and what is meant or between what happens and what is expected to happen in life and in literature. In verbal irony, characters say the opposite of what they mean. In irony of circumstance or situation, the opposite of what is expected occurs_...http://novella.mhhe.com/sites/0072405228/student_view0/poetic_glossary.html

Kabir says he does what he pleases. And who would expect that it would please him to invite death? But Kabir gets what he wants. He overcomes the fear of death by freely inviting death itself.


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਸ ਕੋ ਗਾਂਡੋ ਚੂਸੀਐ ਗੁਨ ਕਉ ਮਰੀਐ ਰੋਇ ॥ 
कबीर रस को गांडो चूसीऐ गुन कउ मरीऐ रोइ ॥ 
Kabīr ras ko gāŉdo cẖūsī▫ai gun ka▫o marī▫ai ro▫e. 
Kabeer, the mortals suck at the sugar cane, for the sake of the sweet juice. They should work just as hard for virtue. 

ਅਵਗੁਨੀਆਰੇ ਮਾਨਸੈ ਭਲੋ ਨ ਕਹਿਹੈ ਕੋਇ ॥੭੨॥ 
अवगुनीआरे मानसै भलो न कहिहै कोइ ॥७२॥ 
Avgunī▫āre mānsai bẖalo na kahihai ko▫e. ||72|| 
The person who lacks virtue - no one calls him good. ||72||


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਗਾਗਰਿ ਜਲ ਭਰੀ ਆਜੁ ਕਾਲ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਜੈਹੈ ਫੂਟਿ ॥ 
कबीर गागरि जल भरी आजु काल्हि जैहै फूटि ॥ 
Kabīr gāgar jal bẖarī āj kāliĥ jaihai fūt. 
Kabeer, the pitcher is full of water; it will break, today or tomorrow. 

ਗੁਰੁ ਜੁ ਨ ਚੇਤਹਿ ਆਪਨੋ ਅਧ ਮਾਝਿ ਲੀਜਹਿਗੇ ਲੂਟਿ ॥੭੩॥ 
गुरु जु न चेतहि आपनो अध माझि लीजहिगे लूटि ॥७३॥ 
Gur jo na cẖīṯėh āpno aḏẖ mājẖ lījhige lūt. ||73|| 
Those who do not remember their Guru, shall be plundered on the way. ||73||


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਕੂਕਰੁ ਰਾਮ ਕੋ ਮੁਤੀਆ ਮੇਰੋ ਨਾਉ ॥ 
कबीर कूकरु राम को मुतीआ मेरो नाउ ॥ 
Kabīr kūkar rām ko muṯī▫ā mero nā▫o. 
Kabeer, I am the Lord's dog; Moti is my name. 

ਗਲੇ ਹਮਾਰੇ ਜੇਵਰੀ ਜਹ ਖਿੰਚੈ ਤਹ ਜਾਉ ॥੭੪॥ 
गले हमारे जेवरी जह खिंचै तह जाउ ॥७४॥ 
Gale hamāre jevrī jah kẖincẖai ṯah jā▫o. ||74|| 
There is a chain around my neck; wherever I am pulled, I go. ||74||


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਜਪਨੀ ਕਾਠ ਕੀ ਕਿਆ ਦਿਖਲਾਵਹਿ ਲੋਇ ॥ 
कबीर जपनी काठ की किआ दिखलावहि लोइ ॥ 
Kabīr japnī kāṯẖ kī ki▫ā ḏikẖlāvahi lo▫e. 
Kabeer, why do you show other people your rosary beads? 

ਹਿਰਦੈ ਰਾਮੁ ਨ ਚੇਤਹੀ ਇਹ ਜਪਨੀ ਕਿਆ ਹੋਇ ॥੭੫॥ 
हिरदै रामु न चेतही इह जपनी किआ होइ ॥७५॥ 
Hirḏai rām na cẖeṯhī ih japnī ki▫ā ho▫e. ||75|| 
You do not remember the Lord in your heart, so what use is this rosary to you? ||75||


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## gurvinder_janu

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Respected Jios

Rosary may be begining and one day it may lead to remembering Waheguru from Heart. Your views on this are welcome.

Bhul chuk lai Muaffi Ji


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

rosary and various such "aids" are roundly and soundly condemned in Gurbani...simply because these are USED (MISUSED) as SYMBOLS of HOLYNESS !! outward holiness..show offs...and may thus evetually lead one OFF the Path which one may have gotten on.

SECONDLY and more importantly..Rosaries Maalas are used to COUNT...and Ginntee minntees COUNTINGS and NUMBERS are ROUNDLY and SOUNDLY CONDEMNED in GURBANI....Akal Purakh is NOT "impressed" by counts..numbers..millions zilliosn of paaths,..etc etc...HE LOVES LOVE !!!

so DOUBLE WHAMMY FOLKS...if you still want a rosarie  maala..go ahead....BUT dont HANG YOURSELF with one !!!:happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy:


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ  ਬਿਰਹੁ  ਭੁਯੰਗਮੁ  ਮਨਿ  ਬਸੈ  ਮੰਤੁ  ਨ  ਮਾਨੈ  ਕੋਇ  ॥ 
कबीर बिरहु भुयंगमु मनि बसै मंतु न मानै कोइ ॥ 
Kabīr birahu bẖuyangam man basai manṯ na mānai ko▫e. 
Kabeer, the snake of separation from the Lord abides within my mind; it does not respond to any mantra. 

ਰਾਮ  ਬਿਓਗੀ  ਨਾ  ਜੀਐ  ਜੀਐ  ਤ  ਬਉਰਾ  ਹੋਇ  ॥੭੬॥ 
राम बिओगी ना जीऐ जीऐ त बउरा होइ ॥७६॥ 
Rām bi▫ogī nā jī▫ai jī▫ai ṯa ba▫urā ho▫e. ||76|| 
One who is separated from the Lord does not live; if he does live, he goes insane. ||76||


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

How poetic but straight to the point...the SNAKE..the evil temptress of Adam and EVE..resides in the TREE OF KNOWLEDGE..the MIND....MANMATT....and only RESPONDS by LEAVING..if replaced by GURMATT..the original sense of MATHA TEK...Give ones "HEAD" (panj Piayars)..sir dhar tali gali meri aoo..Kabir Ji.
IF we allow the Sanke of SEPARATION..to control our seat of Knowledge...then we go into Chatrriyaan..tricks..ginntee minntees mantars jantars..to "please God"...and its all FUTILE..becasue Waheguru is NOT IMPRESSED by these trickery...as He KNOWS ALL !!


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## Astroboy

Gyani Ji, Gintee Mintee of course is not the end  but a means to disciplining the mind. For eg I have used rosary to count the number of times we say Waheguru not to impress God but to serve as a self imposed penance for not doing Parkash/Paath and Smaptee. The day I get up late, the rosary takes a toll on me. Just disciplining my lazy self. 

The penance works in the following way - 1000 times Waheguru for each of the following:-

Getting up late.
Not doing Parkash.
Not doing 10 pages from Beedh.
Not doing Smapti
Saying bad, slander about someone.
Trying to "phasaa ladkee" - by using my male charms/looks.

If I did all of the above, saying Waheguru 6000 times is "killer hard", so the alternative route is simpler.


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਪਾਰਸ ਚੰਦਨੈ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਹੈ ਏਕ ਸੁਗੰਧ ॥ 
कबीर पारस चंदनै तिन्ह है एक सुगंध ॥ 
Kabīr pāras cẖanḏnai ṯinĥ hai ek suganḏẖ. 
Kabeer, the philosopher's stone and sandalwood oil have the same good quality. 

ਤਿਹ ਮਿਲਿ ਤੇਊ ਊਤਮ ਭਏ ਲੋਹ ਕਾਠ ਨਿਰਗੰਧ ॥੭੭॥ 
तिह मिलि तेऊ ऊतम भए लोह काठ निरगंध ॥७७॥ 
Ŧih mil ṯe▫ū ūṯam bẖa▫e loh kāṯẖ nirganḏẖ. ||77|| 
Whatever comes into contact with them is uplifted. Iron is transformed into gold, and ordinary wood becomes fragrant. ||77||


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## spnadmin

testing this thread.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

namjap said:


> Gyani Ji, Gintee Mintee of course is not the end  but a means to disciplining the mind. For eg I have used rosary to count the number of times we say Waheguru not to impress God but to serve as a self imposed penance for not doing Parkash/Paath and Smaptee. The day I get up late, the rosary takes a toll on me. Just disciplining my lazy self.
> 
> The penance works in the following way - 1000 times Waheguru for each of the following:-
> 
> Getting up late.
> Not doing Parkash.
> Not doing 10 pages from Beedh.
> Not doing Smapti
> Saying bad, slander about someone.
> Trying to "phasaa ladkee" - by using my male charms/looks.
> 
> If I did all of the above, saying Waheguru 6000 times is "killer hard", so the alternative route is simpler.



Guru Paiayirio jio, Naam japp ji,
Gurfateh.

I will give you Passing Marks for that.

Actually Guru Ji is also singling out the "OBVIOUSLY FAKE SHOW OFF SYMBOLS"..Gall maala, tilk on forehead, the double strength unstitched dhotee ,    
**(btw the UNSTITCHED thingy has religious isgnificance in Islam as well - on Haj the pilgrims MUST wear UNSTITCHED CHADARS..no other clothes allowed at all...AND JUST to DISPELL ALL DOUBTS ABOUT this "unstiched nonsense" the Khalsa Kachhera has HUNDREDS of Stitches...the Paonche MUST be strengthnend by stitching many many times over and over again...thus a Khalsa kachera contaisn hundreds of stitches !!).**.
Read any Gurbani shabad and this is the Message.

2. THAT is WHY, the KHALSA SYMBOLS of 5 kakaars are NOT "Fake/show offs of holiness/humility/meant to CHEAT the ONLOOKER into a sense of being in the company of someone who is Super Duper HOLY..the Matt Bhitteh Matt Bitteh TYPE !!" THESE are FOR the PERSONAL CONVICTION of the WEARER...and have absolutley NO BEARING on OTHERS....unlike the Brahmins Tilak, gall maala dhotee and chakars etc around his chullahchaunka. There is a disclaimer here..IF a PERSON beleives that his kakaars DO place upon hsi body the "holiness" that the Brahmin thinks his tilak etc does..THEN..and ONLY THEN do the Kakaars become FAKE and SHOW OFF !! and the Khalsa of that type will also be the "Matt bhitteh Matt bhitteh"type !! and we can see quite a few such types.
THESE types can hardly stand taking even Guru Ji degh from other Khalsas and wouldnt bee seen dead in BHAI LALOS HOUSE sharing HIS BREAD !!..and Guru nanak ji would ahve the same words to say about them too.

THANK you...as always..for sharing Gurbani Wisdom...Keep in Chardeekalla always...


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਜਮ ਕਾ ਠੇਂਗਾ ਬੁਰਾ ਹੈ ਓਹੁ ਨਹੀ ਸਹਿਆ ਜਾਇ ॥ 
कबीर जम का ठेंगा बुरा है ओहु नही सहिआ जाइ ॥ 
Kabīr jam kā ṯẖeŉgā burā hai oh nahī sahi▫ā jā▫e. 
Kabeer, Death's club is terrible; it cannot be endured. 

ਏਕੁ ਜੁ ਸਾਧੂ ਮਹਿ ਮਿਲਿਓ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਲੀਆ ਅੰਚਲਿ ਲਾਇ ॥੭੮॥ 
एकु जु साधू मोहि मिलिओ तिन्हि लीआ अंचलि लाइ ॥७८॥ 
Ėk jo sāḏẖū mohi mili▫o ṯiniĥ lī▫ā ancẖal lā▫e. ||78|| 
I have met with the holy man; he has attached me to the hem of his robe. ||78||


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

gurvinder_janu said:


> ਕਬੀਰ ਜਮ ਕਾ ਠੇਂਗਾ ਬੁਰਾ ਹੈ ਓਹੁ ਨਹੀ ਸਹਿਆ ਜਾਇ ॥
> कबीर जम का ठेंगा बुरा है ओहु नही सहिआ जाइ ॥
> Kabīr jam kā ṯẖeŉgā burā hai oh nahī sahi▫ā jā▫e.
> Kabeer, Death's club is terrible; it cannot be endured.
> 
> ਏਕੁ ਜੁ ਸਾਧੂ ਮਹਿ ਮਿਲਿਓ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਲੀਆ ਅੰਚਲਿ ਲਾਇ ॥੭੮॥
> एकु जु साधू मोहि मिलिओ तिन्हि लीआ अंचलि लाइ ॥७८॥
> Ėk jo sāḏẖū mohi mili▫o ṯiniĥ lī▫ā ancẖal lā▫e. ||78||
> I have met with the holy man; he has attached me to the hem of his robe. ||78||



EK>>>JO>>>SADHU....is WAHEGURU who is just within us..in our Gireebaan !!
" the holy man"..a vague and meaningless word....no direction whatsoever...GURBANI is clarity personified...SIGNBOARDS that say exactly what they MEAN..and MEAN what they say !!  The word  *EK-JO* is the signboard...the Vital ARROW that point in the Right Direction !! Same as in EK-Oangkaar !!


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## spnadmin

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> EK>>>JO>>>SADHU....is WAHEGURU who is just within us..in our Gireebaan !!
> " the holy man"..a vague and meaningless word....no direction whatsoever...GURBANI is clarity personified...SIGNBOARDS that say exactly what they MEAN..and MEAN what they say !!  The word  *EK-JO* is the signboard...the Vital ARROW that point in the Right Direction !! Same as in EK-Oangkaar !!



*I have met the holy man. He has attached me to the hem of his robe. *In other words, don't hang on to where you are not supposed to be. There is something better to hang on to. :yes:


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

aad0002 said:


> *I have met the holy man. He has attached me to the hem of his robe. *In other words, don't hang on to where you are not supposed to be. There is something better to hang on to. :yes:



aad ji...:yes::yes::yes::yes::yes:


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਬੈਦੁ ਕਹੈ ਹਉ ਹੀ ਭਲਾ ਦਾਰੂ ਮੇਰੈ ਵਸਿ ॥ 
कबीर बैदु कहै हउ ही भला दारू मेरै वसि ॥ 
Kabīr baiḏ kahai ha▫o hī bẖalā ḏārū merai vas. 
Kabeer, the physician says that he alone is good, and all the medicine is under his control. 

ਇਹ ਤਉ ਬਸਤੁ ਗੁਪਾਲ ਕੀ ਜਬ ਭਾਵੈ ਲੇਇ ਖਸਿ ॥੭੯॥ 
इह तउ बसतु गुपाल की जब भावै लेइ खसि ॥७९॥ 
Ih ṯa▫o basaṯ gupāl kī jab bẖāvai le▫e kẖas. ||79|| 
But these things belong to the Lord; He takes them away whenever He wishes. ||79|| 


I am not able to grasp the meaning conveyed by Kabir Ji. I shall be thankful if it is explained.
Bhul chuk lai muaafi ji


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## spnadmin

Gurvinder ji

First I thank you for taking on the seva of keeping the Contemplation alive. This is where the love of our focus and attention belongs. Everything else is basically the tawdriness of the mind undisciplined. You have been keeping us focused during the absence of NamJap ji. 

This saloka in my opinion points out the fallacy of our thinking. We like the doctor, who *thinks* he controls medicine and the health of his patients,  are lost in our "roles" in the authority and the sense of real power that we only think we have. The doctor, the lawyer, the farmer, the teacher, the journalist -- whatever we are we believe we command that narrow space of authority because of our learning, our experience, our socially acknowledged role. It is all Haumei become institutionalized. And Kabir tells us that we/the physician are nothing, we/the physician only think that we control/fix/heal/command. It is the feebleness of our awareness that misleads and Kabir reminds us that the doer of everything Kartar Purakh is the Only one who Heals, Creates, Supports, Destroys, Commands.


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## gurvinder_janu

Respected aad0002 Ji

Thanx for the beautiful descriptive explanation. As yourgoodself say and is also true that we are nothing it is the Only Waheguru who is the commander. It is only as per wish of Waheguru sewa is being done.

Regards
Bhul chuk lai muaafi ji


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Guur nanak ji Sahib also had an encounter with the Vaid.....when Guru Ji was apparently"lost" to the world his father thought Nanak is sick and called in the vaid. The Vaid came...felt Nanak's pulse...and went about hsi diagnisis..... and Guru Ji told him..Vaid JI..your First duty is to IDENTIFY/ISOLATE/RECOGNISE..the ROG..Pehchhaan the "disease"...only then can you TREAT it..mY "rog" is separation from MY Beloved..and that treatment is beyond your field of expertise..you are healer of PHYSICAL BODY...
THIS SHABAD and many others point us in the DIRECTION that GURBANI is for the MANN way more than the TAN..Body. MANN JEETEH JAG JEET..means that. IF our Mann is HEALTHY and ROBUST and is fed the Spiritual FOOD of the Shaabd Vichaar..it will be healthy....and a Healthy MIND/MANN means a Healthy BODY too..


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਨਉਬਤਿ ਆਪਨੀ ਦਿਨ ਦਸ ਲੇਹੁ ਬਜਾਇ ॥ 
कबीर नउबति आपनी दिन दस लेहु बजाइ ॥ 
Kabīr na▫ubaṯ āpnī ḏin ḏas leho bajā▫e. 
Kabeer, take your drum and beat it for ten days. 

ਨਦੀ ਨਾਵ ਸੰਜੋਗ ਜਿਉ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਮਿਲਹੈ ਆਇ ॥੮੦॥ 
नदी नाव संजोग जिउ बहुरि न मिलहै आइ ॥८०॥ 
Naḏī nāv sanjog ji▫o bahur na milhai ā▫e. ||80|| 
Life is like people meeting on a boat on a river; they shall not meet again. ||80||


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## spnadmin

gurvinder ji,

Thank you for posting the seloka once again as a seva to us. 

The seloka has two verses and they both contain the idea of Oneness, unity, and achieving divine bliss through overcoming duality. I may make my point in a very clumsy way.

The first ilne required some research because I suspected that the image of "drums" had some background to it. What I found is that in the beej of Kabir ji "drums" have a unique meaning. Kabir ji says that drums are heard in the celestial space where we can become lost in the divine play (sometimes he calls it sport) once we have overcome duality. In that celestial space is heard the unstruck muisc, the naad, and the beat of the drum is mixed with the sound of the harp. Each of these instruments requires that a surface be struck for the sound to be heard, then the vibration is caught by the ear. That is how it works in our ordinary world. But these instruments sound as unstruck when duality is over come.  Here is an example from the beej,

_The unstruck drum of Eternity is sounded within me but my deaf ears cannot hear it
So long as man clamours for the I and the Mine his works are naught
When all the love of the I and Mine is dead the work of the Lord is done_

But when we look at the line Kabir says - Beat the drum for 10 days. He is saying beat as much as you like, it will do no good for you if you are lost in attachment. Now another thing about the words of Kabir: He has said that the beat of the drum heard in divine union is beating the rhythm of life and death, as one sound, one unbroken rhythm, as one in complete union with the divine will know that there is no difference between life and death. So beat as much as you like, the rhythm that is true is not the beating of drums in the sports arena, or the cremation grounds. The true rhythm is unbroken and whole.

ਕਬੀਰ ਨਉਬਤਿ ਆਪਨੀ ਦਿਨ ਦਸ ਲੇਹੁ ਬਜਾਇ ॥ 
कबीर नउबति आपनी दिन दस लेहु बजाइ ॥ 
Kabīr na▫ubaṯ āpnī ḏin ḏas leho bajā▫e. 
Kabeer, take your drum and beat it for ten days. 

 I have taken a risk emphasizing this idea of the drum that beats the true, pooran, complete sound which is the unbroken rhythm of life and death heard in sehaj, as a celestial sound for this reason. Look at the next line. The same image of an unbroken current is repeated in the image of the river. 

The river has a constant current, it flows from the source, unbroken, like the creation itself. Only we, who are stuck in the world of maya, thinking in terms of this and that, me and you, then and now, here and there, have a broken awareness of the river. The boat stops, some get on and others get off. We meet as passengers together for only a time. We do not realize how life is like the river Kabir ji says.  The river in its unbroken current carries us onward to our destination. And because we are captives of a sense of time that is broken into coming and going, meeting and departing, we need to be reminded that once we depart we never meet again. 


ਨਦੀ ਨਾਵ ਸੰਜੋਗ ਜਿਉ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਮਿਲਹੈ ਆਇ ॥੮੦॥ 

नदी नाव संजोग जिउ बहुरि न मिलहै आइ ॥८०॥ 
Naḏī nāv sanjog ji▫o bahur na milhai ā▫e. ||80|| 
Life is like people meeting on a boat on a river; they shall not meet again. ||80||

​
Sheik Fareed makes a similar point,

ਸਬਰੁ ਏਹੁ ਸੁਆਉ ਜੇ ਤੂੰ ਬੰਦਾ ਦਿੜੁ ਕਰਹਿ ॥ 
sabar eaehu suaao jae thoon bandhaa dhirr karehi ||
Let patience be your purpose in life; implant this within your being.
 
 ਵਧਿ ਥੀਵਹਿ ਦਰੀਆਉ ਟੁਟਿ ਨ ਥੀਵਹਿ ਵਾਹੜਾ ॥੧੧੭॥ 
vadhh thheevehi dhareeaao ttutt n thheevehi vaaharraa ||117||
In this way, you will grow into a great river; you will not break off into a tiny stream. ||117||


Waiting patiently one will receive the "gift" from the Lord and Master and through patience will become like the river -- complete, whole, unbroken -- in other words one will see the the Truth of the Oneness of Creation and awareness will not be broken into coming and going, life and death, here and hereafter through duality.


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## gurvinder_janu

"gurvinder ji,

Thank you for posting the seloka once again as a seva to us."

Respected aad002 Ji

Please do not let me feel so small, i am posting/visiting at SPN for myself only, so that I am able to learn/imbibe Gurbani and its meaning. Yours way of explaining Gurbani is marvellous, as if you are sailing at the same plane/level when it recited. I am grateful to you and to SPN also. It is great website for learning sikhism and sikhphilosophy. There are so many scholars at SPN from whom I learn a lot. Thanks to all of them too.

Regards
Bhul chuk lai muaafi ji
Gurvinder Kaur


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## spnadmin

Please forgive me if I caused any offense, gurvinder ji.


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## Astroboy

> What I found is that in the beej of Kabir ji "drums" have a unique meaning. Kabir ji says that drums are heard in the celestial space where we can become lost in the divine play (sometimes he calls it sport) once we have overcome duality. In that celestial space is heard the unstruck muisc, the naad, and the beat of the drum is mixed with the sound of the harp. Each of these instruments requires that a surface be struck for the sound to be heard, then the vibration is caught by the ear.


Page 13, Line 3
ਅਨਹਤਾ ਸਬਦ ਵਾਜੰਤ ਭੇਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
अनहता सबद वाजंत भेरी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Anhaṯā sabaḏ vājanṯ bẖerī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The Unstruck Sound-current of the Shabad is the vibration of the temple drums. ||1||Pause||
*Guru Nanak Dev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## spnadmin

NamJap ji

That is a great find! Cool match -- are there more?


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## Astroboy

Page 92, Line 15
ਰਾਜਾ ਰਾਮ ਅਨਹਦ ਕਿੰਗੁਰੀ ਬਾਜੈ ॥
राजा राम अनहद किंगुरी बाजै ॥
Rājā rām anhaḏ kingurī bājai.
The Unstruck Melody of the Sovereign Lord's Harp vibrates;
*Devotee Kabir*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## gurvinder_janu

aad0002 said:


> Please forgive me if I caused any offense, gurvinder ji.


 
Respected aad0002 Ji
No offense please. You are always so kind. :yes:

Regards
Bhul chuk lai muaafi ji


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## gurvinder_janu

ਕਬੀਰ ਸਾਤ ਸਮੁੰਦਹਿ ਮਸੁ ਕਰਉ ਕਲਮ ਕਰਉ ਬਨਰਾਇ ॥ 
कबीर सात समुंदहि मसु करउ कलम करउ बनराइ ॥ 
Kabīr sāṯ samunḏėh mas kara▫o kalam kara▫o banrā▫e. 
Kabeer, if I could change the seven seas into ink and make all the vegetation my pen, 

ਬਸੁਧਾ ਕਾਗਦੁ ਜਉ ਕਰਉ ਹਰਿ ਜਸੁ ਲਿਖਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥੮੧॥ 
बसुधा कागदु जउ करउ हरि जसु लिखनु न जाइ ॥८१॥ 
Basuḏẖā kāgaḏ ja▫o kara▫o har jas likẖan na jā▫e. ||81|| 
and the earth my paper, even then, I could not write the Praises of the Lord. ||81|| 
In this selok Kabir Ji has conveyed that praises of Waheguru are infinite.


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## spnadmin

Nam Jap ji

The very last line in English below the seloka -- Is that your vichaar or vichaar of Gurvinder_janu?


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## Astroboy

aad0002 said:


> Nam Jap ji
> 
> The very last line in English below the seloka -- Is that your vichaar or vichaar of Gurvinder_janu?



Gurvinder Ji's.

Well I would like to add a few comments myself as I have been activated again. 

Sri Kabir says, even if I make use of the seven oceans water as my ink and use the timber of the entire vegetation as my pen, 
the entire earth as my paper, even then it is not enough to write the praises of Almighty
 i.e. the praises are endless and everything else has an end.


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਜਾਤਿ  ਜੁਲਾਹਾ  ਕਿਆ  ਕਰੈ  ਹਿਰਦੈ  ਬਸੇ  ਗੁਪਾਲ  ॥ 
कबीर जाति जुलाहा किआ करै हिरदै बसे गुपाल ॥ 
Kabīr jāṯ julāhā ki▫ā karai hirḏai base gupāl. 
Kabeer, what can my lowly status as a weaver do to me? The Lord dwells in my heart. 

ਕਬੀਰ  ਰਮਈਆ  ਕੰਠਿ  ਮਿਲੁ  ਚੂਕਹਿ  ਸਰਬ  ਜੰਜਾਲ  ॥੮੨॥ 
कबीर रमईआ कंठि मिलु चूकहि सरब जंजाल ॥८२॥ 
Kabīr rama▫ī▫ā kanṯẖ mil cẖūkėh sarab janjāl. ||82|| 
Kabeer, the Lord hugs me close in His Embrace; I have forsaken all my entanglements. ||82||

I would like to thank Gurvinder Ji for her sewa in keeping this thread alive during my 3 months' absence.  

I take over from today.


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## spnadmin

Kabir ji may be saying a bit more.


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## Astroboy

Kabīr jāṯ julāhā ki▫ā karai hirḏai base gupāl.

Sri KabirJi says, dear brother, my low caste will never effect (put me down) because the sustainer of the universe (Almighty) resides in my heart.

Kabīr rama▫ī▫ā kanṯẖ mil cẖūkėh sarab janjāl. ||82|| 

When the greatest is among all and within His creation, He has taken me into His embrace, i.e. Almighty has blessed me His oneness and all worldly attachments have vanished.


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਐਸਾ  ਕੋ  ਨਹੀ  ਮੰਦਰੁ  ਦੇਇ  ਜਰਾਇ  ॥ 
कबीर ऐसा को नही मंदरु देइ जराइ ॥ 
Kabīr aisā ko nahī manḏar ḏe▫e jarā▫e. 
Kabeer, will anyone set fire to his home 

ਪਾਂਚਉ  ਲਰਿਕੇ  ਮਾਰਿ  ਕੈ  ਰਹੈ  ਰਾਮ  ਲਿਉ  ਲਾਇ  ॥੮੩॥ 
पांचउ लरिके मारि कै रहै राम लिउ लाइ ॥८३॥ 
Pāŉcẖa▫o larike mār kai rahai rām li▫o lā▫e. ||83|| 
and kill his five sons (the five thieves) to remain lovingly attached to the Lord? ||83||

Kabir says, there is rarely any such person who sets fire (recitation of the Almighty's name) to burn the physical body's ego.

During such fire (meditation) the five sons Kam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh and Ahankar are burnt to death.


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਐਸਾ  ਕੋ  ਨਹੀ  ਇਹੁ  ਤਨੁ  ਦੇਵੈ  ਫੂਕਿ  ॥ 
कबीर ऐसा को नही इहु तनु देवै फूकि ॥ 
Kabīr aisā ko nahī ih ṯan ḏevai fūk. 
Kabeer, will anyone burn (the ego of) his own body? 

ਅੰਧਾ  ਲੋਗੁ  ਨ  ਜਾਨਈ  ਰਹਿਓ  ਕਬੀਰਾ  ਕੂਕਿ  ॥੮੪॥ 
अंधा लोगु न जानई रहिओ कबीरा कूकि ॥८४॥ 
Anḏẖā log na jān▫ī rahi▫o kabīrā kūk. ||84|| 
The people are blind - they do not know, although Kabeer continues to shout at them. ||84||

Because most people are blind-folded by ignorance but do not realize this, Kabir is making an extra effort that he might be heard by some fortunate ones while in their state of ignorance. He hopes that those fortunate ones will get the message by his shouting to pass over the message of truth.


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਸਤੀ  ਪੁਕਾਰੈ  ਚਿਹ  ਚੜੀ  ਸੁਨੁ  ਹੋ  ਬੀਰ  ਮਸਾਨ  ॥ 
कबीर सती पुकारै चिह चड़ी सुनु हो बीर मसान ॥ 
Kabīr saṯī pukārai cẖih cẖaṛī sun ho bīr masān. 
Kabeer, the widow mounts the funeral pyre and cries out, "Listen, O brother funeral pyre. 

ਲੋਗੁ  ਸਬਾਇਆ  ਚਲਿ  ਗਇਓ  ਹਮ  ਤੁਮ  ਕਾਮੁ  ਨਿਦਾਨ  ॥੮੫॥ 
लोगु सबाइआ चलि गइओ हम तुम कामु निदान ॥८५॥ 
Log sabā▫i▫ā cẖal ga▫i▫o ham ṯum kām niḏān. ||85|| 
All people must depart in the end; it is only you and I". ||85||

Deleted one part of the response, as the vichaar had no relevance at all to the saloka. This saloka has nothing at all to do with your departure, and we all know that our last rites will be performed on a cremation ground or cemetery depending on who is reading it. Made a copy. If a majority of leaders disagree I will put it back. spnadmin


This is how the sage with knowledge and detachment from worldly materials continuously reminds all to incline towards Almighty because the ignorant foolish ones have left in ego and attachment, therefore for the wise ones the ego must be abandoned.


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## Astroboy

ਕਬੀਰ  ਮਨੁ  ਪੰਖੀ  ਭਇਓ  ਉਡਿ  ਉਡਿ  ਦਹ  ਦਿਸ  ਜਾਇ  ॥ 
कबीर मनु पंखी भइओ उडि उडि दह दिस जाइ ॥ 
Kabīr man pankẖī bẖa▫i▫o ud ud ḏah ḏis jā▫e. 
Kabeer, the mind has become a bird; it soars and flies in the ten directions. 

ਮਨੁ = mind; ਪੰਖੀ = birds; ਭਇਓ = happened, become; ਉਡਿ = fly; ਦਹ = 10;   ਜਾਇ = goes, ਜੈਸੀ = that; ਸੰਗਤਿ = company; ਮਿਲੈ = meets, keeps; ਫਲੁ =   flowers/fruits; ਖਾਇ = eats.
ਜੋ  ਜੈਸੀ  ਸੰਗਤਿ  ਮਿਲੈ  ਸੋ  ਤੈਸੋ  ਫਲੁ  ਖਾਇ  ॥੮੬॥ 
जो जैसी संगति मिलै सो तैसो फलु खाइ ॥८६॥ 
Jo jaisī sangaṯ milai so ṯaiso fal kẖā▫e. ||86|| 
According to the company it keeps, so are the fruits it eats. ||86|| 

On a daily basis our minds are distracted and entranced by the people   around us and the situations we’re in. Our minds control us, control the   way we think and as a result control our actions. Just like a bird   flies, our mind flies around. 


In another shabad the '10 directions' explanation is given thus,


ਦਹ ਦਿਸ ਧਾਇ ਮਹਾ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਕਉ ਪਰ ਧਨ ਛੀਨਿ ਅਗਿਆਨ ਹਰਿਓ ਹੈ ॥1388  
दह दिस धाइ महा बिखिआ कउ पर धन छीनि अगिआन हरिओ है ॥
He  runs around in the ten directions, for the sake of the great poison of  corruption. 
He steals the wealth of others, and in the end, he is  destroyed by his own ignorance.


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