# Can One Hide A True Guru



## simpy (Mar 30, 2007)

*Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,*

*Once again this is an effort to make all of us aware*

*AND THIS STEP IS TAKEN AFTER ALL THE HUMBLE REQUESTS MADE TO RESPECTED SAHIL JI WERE IGNORED BY HIM REPEADEDLY...*

*our respected Veer *
*MANYOG SAHIL MAKKAR JI IS CLAIMING TO HIDE HIS GURU'S NAME FROM ALL OF US, AND WONDERFULLY TRYING TO CONVINCE US ALL THAT He Himself and HIS GURU KNOWS BANI BETTER THAN ALL OF US(even after many humble requests made to him to not to repeat the misinterpretation of Gurbani that is being done by him again and again). *


			
				Sahil Makkar said:
			
		

> First of all, My reason to be on this forum.. is not to tell u about my master.. thats why I have never put the name of my master n WILL NEVER PUT.. Because master can be anyone who can show u the GOD...
> But reason is that .... I really feel a big woe.. when I see that NO ONE IS FOLLOWING OUR GREAT SGGS..


 


*AND HE HIMSELF IS CLAIMIMG NOT TO KNOW GURMUKHI. He does not even know Siri Japji sahib!!!!!!!! *



			
				Sahil Makkar said:
			
		

> I cant understand this type of punjabi..
> *ikv sicAwrw hoeIAY ikv kUVY qutY pwil ]*
> *hukim rjweI clxw nwnk iliKAw nwil ]*


 

*and respected Sahil Ji is claiming to help us open our Tenth Gate!!!!!!!!!!*


			
				Sahil Makkar said:
			
		

> I THINK U MUST HAVE READ DIB-DRISHTI/DASAM-DWAAR(TENTHDOOR) no of times.. BUT DID U EVER THINK THAT HOW MY TENTH DOOR WILL OPEN.. AND HOW I WILL GET THE AMRIT.. I THINK NEVER..


 
*and wonderfully thinks that it is NOT O-p-e-n(thanyou Sahil Ji for making us aware), as well as we are not even thinking of what to doooooooo......*

*And He Himself Whose tenth gate is open, having a problem learning a language, or translating it correctly - is it a problem, may be,  ,:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: .......*

*And Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji knew many many languages perfectly, Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Nanak Dev Ji went around in all the four directions, and communicated with people speaking all different languages........*



*can a true Guru, a Brahmgyani stay hidden.....*

*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji guides us this way:*


*AMg 607*
*ang 607*
*Page 607*

*soriT mhlw 4 pMcpdw ]*
*s**o**rath mehul**aa** 4 punchupudh**aa*
*Sorat'h, Fourth Mehl, Panch-Padas:*

*Acru crY qw isiD hoeI isDI qy buiD pweI ]*
*achur chur**ai** th**aa** s**i**dh h**oee** s**i**dh**ee** th**ae** b**u**dh p**aaee*
*If one eats the uneatable, then he becomes a Siddha, a being of perfect spirituality; through this perfection, he obtains wisdom.*

*pRym ky sr lwgy qn BIqir qw BRmu kwitAw jweI ]1]*
*pr**ae**m k**ae** sur l**aa**g**ae** thun bh**ee**thar th**aa** bhrum k**aa**tt**iaa** j**aaee*
*When the arrow of the Lord's Love pierces his body, then his doubt is eradicated. ||1||*

*myry goibd Apuny jn kau dyih vifAweI ]*
*m**ae**r**ae** g**o**b**i**dh ap**u**n**ae** jun ko dh**ae**h**i** vadd**iaaee*
*O my Lord of the Universe, please bless Your humble servant with glory.*

*gurmiq rwm nwmu prgwshu sdw rhhu srxweI ] rhwau ]*
*g**u**rumath r**aa**m n**aa**m purug**aa**suh**u** sudh**aa** rehuh**u** surun**aaee*
*Under Guru's Instructions, enlighten me with the Lord's Name, that I may dwell forever in Your Sanctuary. ||Pause||*

*iehu sMswru sBu Awvx jwxw mn mUrK cyiq Ajwxw ]*
*e**i**h**u** suns**aa**r subh **aa**vun j**aa**n**aa** mun m**oo**rukh ch**ae**th aj**aa**n**aa*
*This whole world is engrossed in coming and going; O my foolish and ignorant mind, be mindful of the Lord.*

*hir jIau ik®pw krhu guru mylhu qw hir nwim smwxw ]2]*
*har j**ee**o k**i**rup**aa** kuruh**u** g**u**r m**ae**luh**u** th**aa** har n**aa**m sum**aa**n**aa*
*O Dear Lord, please, take pity upon me, and unite me with the Guru, that I may merge in the Lord's Name. ||2||*

*ijs kI vQu soeI pRBu jwxY ijs no dyie su pwey ] vsqu AnUp Aiq Agm Agocr guru pUrw AlKu lKwey ]3]*
*j**i**s k**ee** vuth s**oee** prubh j**aa**n**ai** j**i**s n**o** dh**ae**e s p**aa**e**ae*
*Only one who has it knows God; he alone has it, to whom God has given it - so very beautiful, unapproachable and unfathomable. Through the Perfect Guru, the unknowable is known. ||3||*

*ijin ieh cwKI soeI jwxY gUMgy kI imiTAweI ]*
*j**i**n e**i**h ch**aa**kh**ee** s**oee** j**aa**n**ai** g**oo**ng**ae** k**ee** m**i**th**iaaee*
*Only one who tastes it knows it, like the mute, who tastes the sweet candy, but cannot speak of it.*

*rqnu lukwieAw lUkY nwhI jy ko rKY lukweI ]4]*
*ruthun l**u**k**aa**e**iaa** l**oo**k**ai** n**aa**h**ee** j**ae** k**o** rukh**ai** l**u**k**aaee*
*The jewel is concealed, but it is not concealed, even though one may try to conceal it. ||4||*

*sBu ikCu qyrw qU AMqrjwmI qU sBnw kw pRBu soeI ]*
*subh k**i**sh th**ae**r**aa** th**oo** anthuruj**aa**m**ee** th**oo** subhun**aa** k**aa** prubh s**oee*
*Everything is Yours, O Inner-knower, Searcher of hearts; You are the Lord God of all.*

*ijs no dwiq krih so pwey jn nwnk Avru n koeI ]5]9]*
*j**i**s n**o** dh**aa**th kureh**i** s**o** p**aa**e**ae** jun n**aa**nuk avur n k**oee*
*He alone receives the gift, unto whom You give it; O servant Nanak, there is no one else. ||5||9||*




*Again, ALL THIS IS DONE TO MAKE EVERYBODY AWARE......Choice is yours*



*forgive me please*
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## sahilmakkar1983 (Mar 31, 2007)

SWGJKK, SWGJKF

I am saying that i cant understand the scripts, and this is not so that after realisation u will able to do the material things,
kabir ji, such a perfect master was illeterate,
This braham gyan is not to do something with languages, there are no of saints like kabir and many more who could'nt even read a single language,
So my dear sister, rather then to divert any topic, u please give me the scripts that  are easy to understand. Give it Punjabi or English, hindi, but not scripts like this, So dear please come on point,
Dont be too aggressive, I cn understand.. this happens, but cool down
Vaheguru ji tvannu shanti bakshan ge.

GuruFateh


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Mar 31, 2007)

GuruFateh

And ya sister I have not written for  japji sahib,

*ikv sicAwrw hoeIAY ikv kUVY qutY pwil ]*
*hukim rjweI clxw nwnk iliKAw nwil ]
Offcourse m able to understand these lines, but not all these types of scripts that u put.. so atleast put page no with that..
*
sade ghar vich daily jap ji sahab da path honda he..
I just tried to indicate that, these types of scripts i cant understand
I can understand those lines that u quoted, but not all , thats why i didnt reply to ur quotes,
if u write page no, then i will surely reply..
but sister please tell me the meaning of lines that i put.. 
for Dasam dwar..

I never say that I know gurubani better than u, But i always say u to explain to me,
so that a communication can happen..
because see in other thread, if I was not correct I have openly said sorry for that..
but tell me others too..
Tell me defination of SIKH too..
My guru's name u will soon come to know.. par pehle gurubani to te pata chale ki, ki akhir gurubani sanu kede guru baare samjhana chahndi he..
pehle tvannu gurubani vich e kithe likhya he, ki living guru di lod he, eh te samjh lag je,
*(haje tak te tusi eh gal te mande hi nahi ki, living guru vi chahi da he, hor tusi eh vi nahi dasya ki eh kithe likhya he ki living guru nahi karna.. gurubani vich)*
 fer tvannu apne guru baare vi dasa ge, lekin ta vi ehio kava ge, ki tusi kithe vi ja ke labh lo, kithe vi eho jaya guru mile te kar lo..
JEDA vikha de, GALA de khyali halve na khalave, DIKHAVE jide naal sadi bukh mite

Thanks
GuruFateh


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## simpy (Mar 31, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 said:


> GuruFateh
> 
> And ya sister I have not written for japji sahib,
> 
> ...


 

*Respected Sahil Ji,*

*I HAVE MY GURU -DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI.*

*I DO NOT HAVE ANY DESIRE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR GURU. YOU CAN PLAY GAME OF HIDE AND SEEK FOR EVER, DOES NOT EFFECT ME. *

*I AM DOING THIS THREAD TO MAKE OTHERS AWARE WHO MAY FIND THIS PLAY YOU ARE TRYING TO PRESENT, TEMPTING AND MAY GO ASTRAY.*

*STILL CHOICE IS THEIRS. *

*ONE CAN ONLY MAKE OTHERS AWARE.*

*AS FAR AS I KNOW A PERSON WHO WANTS/LIKES TO TEACH OTHERS GURBANI MUST BE VERY WELL AWARE OF GURMUKHI, BECAUSE ONE CANNOT TEACH OTHERS UNLESS ONE KNOWS WHAT HE/SHE IS TEACHING. *

*YOU YOURSELF HAS AGREED ON IT THAT YOU DO NOT.*



*forgive me please*


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## spnadmin (Mar 31, 2007)

Surinder ji

Your choice of scripture, one of the best of the hukams as well, is the perfect lesson for those of us who do not know enough to be part of this debate but do wish to understand the heart of gurbani. This says it all.

Respectfully


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## simpy (Mar 31, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 said:


> SWGJKK, SWGJKF
> 
> I am saying that i cant understand the scripts, and this is not so that after realisation u will able to do the material things,
> kabir ji, such a perfect master was illeterate,
> ...


 
*GURMUKHS HAVE TO LEARN GURMUKHI*
*OUR GURU SAHIBAAN HAVE MADE THIS CLEAR BY USING THE SAME SCRIPT*

*ANOTHER POINTS TO BE NOTED- *
*IF LANGUAGE HAS NOTHING TO DO, WHY ARE YOU EVEN USING A LANGUAGE TO PROVE YOUR POINT- AREN'T YOU ALSO USING SOME HUMAN LANGUAGE TO COMMUNICATE. YOU ARE EVEN TRYING TO PROVE YOUR POINT BY USING THOSE LANGUAGES YOU DON"T HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT IS WRITTEN.*

*TO UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY ANYTHING WRITTEN IN FRENCH, WE NEED TO KNOW THE LANGUAGE 'FRENCH' VERY THOROUGHLY. TRANSLATIONS OF ANY LANGUAGE CANNOT DO JUSTICE TO ANY LANGUAGE. LANGUAGE IS NOT JUST A FORM OF EMPTY COMMUNICATION; IT BRINGS WITH IT THE UNDERSTANDING OF THAT CULTURE AND PEOPLE'S EMOTIONS AND MORE AS WELL. *





*forgive me please*


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## simpy (Apr 1, 2007)

aad0002 said:


> Surinder ji
> 
> Your choice of scripture, one of the best of the hukams as well, is the perfect lesson for those of us who do not know enough to be part of this debate but do wish to understand the heart of gurbani. This says it all.
> 
> Respectfully


 

*Respected aad0002 Ji,*

*how i look at it, all of us should be a part of this; as Sahil Ji has challenged that TRUTH we all respect and some of us are trying to live or are living.*

*And it does take time to understand the heart of Gurbani, And we cannot reach their until every word is grasped truthfully. This is ETERNAL PURE TRUTH, MIND HAS TO BECOME PURE TO HAVE IT PENETRATE WITHIN.*

*forgive me please *


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 1, 2007)

I am sooooooo confused who is believing in what and going around with name of Sikh. First one says believes in Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but quoting Ganesh. Another is quoting Adi Granth as Naamdhari. Another has a nameless hidden guru. Can you imagine how poor ordinary Sikh must feel trying to figure out what is good and right>? One can be quoting clearest and fluent Gurbani, and be highly knowledgeable of deep spiritual things, and then hiding in the middle of it is something weird to Sikhi. I wish all people would just come out and say where they are coming from.

I don't think a satguru can hide. But people can definitely distort Sikh religion.


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## simpy (Apr 1, 2007)

Harjas Kaur Khalsa said:


> I am sooooooo confused who is believing in what and going around with name of Sikh. First one says believes in Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but quoting Ganesh. Another is quoting Adi Granth as Naamdhari. Another has a nameless hidden guru. Can you imagine how poor ordinary Sikh must feel trying to figure out what is good and right>? One can be quoting clearest and fluent Gurbani, and be highly knowledgeable of deep spiritual things, and then hiding in the middle of it is something weird to Sikhi. I wish all people would just come out and say where they are coming from.
> 
> I don't think a satguru can hide. But people can definitely distort Sikh religion.


 

*Respected Harjas Ji,*


*Who is quoting Ganesh???? *

*I saw you supporting Hindi yesterday and sachchasoda ji had to point that out to you. what was that about-Use of Hindi by a person who is all against Hinditav and all that????*

*And to my surprise it is still appearing in English- so promonoting English by presenting Sacred Gurbani in a Language of those People who ruled over other humans for centuries..........*



*forgive me please*


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 1, 2007)

I am not supporting Hindi. Neither am I against Hindi. I am against Hindutva. I was wrong to put Hindi in translation of Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and Sachasoda was kind to point this out for which correction was taken.

You have written spiritual teachings quoting from Adi Shankara. Is it not so? I am not even against vedic teaching. But it becomes unclear to read all these different teachings together with Gurbani. What is your stand on that?

Or perhaps I'm not understanding you.


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 1, 2007)

*



so promonoting English

Click to expand...

 
:{- *


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## simpy (Apr 1, 2007)

Harjas Kaur Khalsa said:


> I am not supporting Hindi. Neither am I against Hindi. I am against Hindutva. I was wrong to put Hindi in translation of Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and Sachasoda was kind to point this out for which correction was taken.
> 
> You have written spiritual teachings quoting from Adi Shankara. Is it not so? I am not even against vedic teaching. But it becomes unclear to read all these different teachings together with Gurbani. What is your stand on that?
> 
> Or perhaps I'm not understanding you.


 
*can you please tell me what thread and what post number under it is appearing- i think one must chack the facts themselves before imposing allegations on others*


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 1, 2007)

the thread was removed. But that is not even the issue. Neither is it an allegation. I can accept if I have misunderstood you. Which is why I am asking. 

Have I misunderstood you?


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## simpy (Apr 1, 2007)

*Respected Harjas Khalsa ji,*

*i only gave a link to devakumarc so that he can check out the statements he was making. *

*only a link-THAT Specificaly SAID- ONLY FOR YOU DEVAKUMARC JI.*

*I DO NOT THINK MS KAUR JI, SHOWING SOMEONE THE RIGHT PATH IF YOU HAVE THE POINTER TO IT, IS WRONG.*

*He was debating on somthing he had no knowledge about....*

*please check all the facts.*

*i never posted anything written by any other writers accept Bhai Gurdas Ji...*

*forgive me please*


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 1, 2007)

*



please check all the facts.

Click to expand...

* 
Ok ji. This is always best. It stayed a doubt in my mind which is why I was asking.
I'm happy it was misunderstanding because I enjoy reading what you write.


Please forgive me.


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 1, 2007)

*



And to my surprise it is still appearing in English- so promonoting English by presenting Sacred Gurbani in a Language of those People who ruled over other humans for centuries..........

Click to expand...

 
Should I remove the English translation if we are posting on an English speaking forum?  It is true English has been language of oppression for hundreds of years.  Still most Punjabis raised in the West don't even understand Gurmukhi well.  What do you suggest?*


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## sachchasoda (Apr 1, 2007)

Harjas Kaur Khalsa said:


> *Should I remove the English translation if we are posting on an English speaking forum? It is true English has been language of oppression for hundreds of years. Still most Punjabis raised in the West don't even understand Gurmukhi well. What do you suggest?*


 

Sister Harjas kaur Khalsa Ji,

my suggestion-

Copy and paste it to a word file first, (make sure you have Gurmukhi font downloaded on your pc), then copy it again and paste it in your reply box, it will keep the original text intact in all different languages.
Gurmukhi and English
also use the advanced setting when you paste it to your reply box.


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## simpy (Apr 1, 2007)

Harjas Kaur Khalsa said:


> *Should I remove the English translation if we are posting on an English speaking forum? It is true English has been language of oppression for hundreds of years. Still most Punjabis raised in the West don't even understand Gurmukhi well. What do you suggest?*


 
*Respected Harjas Ji,*


*Let us look at this situation on hand-*

*English is Dominant, almost everywhere- how we got to this point- MORE AND MORE PEOPLE USE IT AND UNDERSTAND IT.*


*For us Gurmukhi is the SACRED LANGUAGE- Our Dhan Dhan Guru Sahibaan composed and devised it. All the Gurbani is presented to us in this Sacred Jewel. *

*A language is not merely a method of communication, it is also a social symbol, and in our case it is a Spiritual Symbol as well.*

*So I say, does not matter what language we are communicating in, we must keep the Sanctity of  Gurbani in its Original form.*

*So i suggest, first present it in its original form- then use whatever language to present it or translate it. This way we will be able to give it proper respect and will always be a reminder-DO NOT FORGET GURMUKHI.*
*AND THE MORE WE WILL USE IT- MORE POPULAR IT WILL BECOME.*
*MORE AND MORE PEOPLE WILL READ IT, SO USE IT, SO UNDERSTAND IT and so on………….*


*forgive me please*


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 1, 2007)

This is completely true. I will go change the Gurbani quotes now, so Gurmukhi is unquestionably the dominant part. Thank you for making this clear bhanji.


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## spnadmin (Apr 1, 2007)

Sahil Makkar ji,

When has a wise guru ever proclaimed himself to have found THE SECRET THAT ALL SHOULD EMBRACE? I want to believe that you are not deliberately promoting an egotistical guru, even if he/she is lying low for the time being. You have said in this debate,


*ikv sicAwrw hoeIAY ikv kUVY qutY pwil ]*
*hukim rjweI clxw nwnk iliKAw nwil ]*
ikv sicAwrw hoeIAY ikv kUVY qutY pwil ]
hukim rjweI clxw nwnk iliKAw nwil ]

Very good! You have referenced your position to sacred text. But everything else in your presentation falls apart. The text you cite says in so many words: If we wish to be true to the Lord and tear away the screen of untruth, then we must submit to the pre-ordained order of the Lord’s will. Not bad for starters! However there is a context for these two lines. You have not included the lines that begin the pauri, which provide a deeper significance: That among other things debate, wealth and intellect will not get anyone closer to the Guru’s grace. Why? Because debate, wealth and intellect are but maya and ego. Before this pauri, what are we looking at? The exhortation to embrace meditation of the Lord. That by SUBMITTING WILLINGLY to meditation, the Lord’s grace will take us to the truth and tear away the screen of untruth if it so willed. 

You miss this by making it all more complicated than it is. Put aside cleverness and become childlike. Make some flashcards and learn the fonts and the vocabulary in its original form so that the blessings of Siri Guru Granth Sahib can become your own and you can draw closer to this source of wisdom!

 
*"nwnk h*ukmY jy buJY q haumY khY n koie"

Peace


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