# Why Do Some Sikhs Confuse Daya With Ahimsa?



## Randip Singh (Aug 2, 2009)

Why do Sikhs confuse Daya with Ahimsa?

Please define these concepts.


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## Archived_Member_19 (Aug 2, 2009)

what is the reference discussion?


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## vsgrewal48895 (Aug 2, 2009)

Dear Randip Ji,

Since they do not know the difference between the two, here are my two cents on compassion;

*COMPASSION/ ਦਇਆ*​ 
*ABSTRACT*​ 
Compassion is a sense of shared suffering, most often combined with a desire to alleviate or reduce such suffering; to show special kindness to those who suffer. It is empathy, not sympathy – identification with and understanding of another’s situation, feelings, and motives. Compassion is the highest vibration of the elastic relative Law of Tolerance, under the Principle of Equilibrium. Guru Arjan reflects on the virtous qualities in Sahskritee Slokes;

ਸਬਦੰ ਰਤੰ ਹਿਤੰ ਮਇਆ ਕੀਰਤੰ ਕਲੀ ਕਰਮ ਕ੍ਰਿਤੁਆ ॥ ਮਿਟੰਤਿ ਤਤ੍ਰਾਗਤ ਭਰਮ ਮੋਹੰ ॥

_Sabḏaŉ raṯaŉ hiṯaŉ ma¬i¬ā kīrṯaŉ kalī karam kriṯu¬ā. Mitanṯ ṯaṯrāgaṯ bẖaram mohaŉ._

To be imbued and attuned to the Word of the Sabd; to be kind and compassionate; to sing the Praises of Akal Purkh - these are the most worthwhile actions in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga. In this way, one's inner doubts and emotional attachments are dispelled.-----Guru Arjan, Sloke Sahskritee, AGGS, Page, 1354-11

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Compassion is one of the prime Sikh virtues in the higher instincts, which is not granted but have to be learnt and developed. We are subject to two different forces. There is a force, which pulls our consciousness upwards to unite it with God (developed by an inner change and becoming a Gurmukh), from whom it is now separated. There is also a force of earthly elements (Lower instincts) that drags it down in to the meshes of mind and matter. The omnipotent Akal Purkh is all love and compassion comes to dwell in the mind when the inner change occurs and the individual is blessed with Its Grace. Guru Arjan ponders on it in Siri Raag;

ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਧਾਰਿ ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਦਇਆਲ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਮਿਹਰਵਾਨੁ ॥

_Ḏarisat ḏẖār man ṯan vasai ḏa¬i¬āl purakẖ miharvān._

Blessing us with Its Glance of Grace, the Kind and Compassionate, All-powerful Akal Purkh comes to dwell within the mind and body. -----Guru Arjan, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page, 49-3

He, who loves, will behold God by Its Grace. He, who beholds It, will not formulate It and he who formulates It will not behold It. One has to stay away from intellectualizing God. The fullness of God's Grace is beyond human appreciation and comprehension. He who has no spiritual peace, consolation, and truth, love and devotion cannot communicate these gifts and virtues to the others. He who sows courtesy reaps friendship, and he who plants kindness gathers love.

The Law of compassion deals with the blessings of mercy bestowed on us to be passed on to the others. He that has done you a kindness will be more ready to do you another, than he whom you yourself have obliged.

ਜੋ ਮਾਨੁਖੁ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਓਹੁ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਲਈ ਲਈ ਫੁਨਿ ਜਾਈਐ ॥

_Jo mānukẖ mānukẖ kī sėvā oh ṯis kī laī laī fun jāīai._

If one human being serves another human being, the one served stands by him. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Bilawal, AGGS, Page, 822-17

Albert Einstein: A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as some thing separated from the rest, a kind of optical illusion of his consciousness. We should free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures.

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion. ---Dalai Lama

The whole purpose of any religion is to facilitate love, compassion, patience, tolerance, humility, forgiveness, and teaching the individuals to subjugate their lower instincts. Altruism, selflessness, should be the first and foremost trait of the people. Education has value in as much as it is applied to the welfare of the humanity.

ਵਿਦਿਆ ਵੀਚਾਰੀ ਤਾਂ ਪਰਉਪਕਾਰੀ ॥ ਜਾਂ ਪੰਚ ਰਾਸੀ ਤਾਂ ਤੀਰਥ ਵਾਸੀ ॥

_Vidya Vicharee Ta Paropkaree, Jaan Panch Raasi Tan Tirath Vaasee._

Contemplate and reflect upon knowledge, and you will become a benefactor to others. When you conquer the five passions, then you shall come to dwell at the sacred shrine of pilgrimage. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 356-14

With out service no one obtains any spiritual reward. Doing good deeds and knowing the Almighty is equal to all your meditation, austerities and reading of Holy books. Practicing righteousness and sharing are the hallmarks of the highest religion, as advocated by Guru Nanak in Raag Sarang; 

ਘਾਲਿ ਖਾਇ ਕਿਛੁ ਹਥਹੁ ਦੇਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਹੁ ਪਛਾਣਹਿ ਸੇਇ ॥

_viḏi¬ā vīcẖārī ṯāŉ par¬upkārī. Jāŉ pancẖ rāsī ṯāŉ ṯirath vāsī._

The one, who earns with his sweat of brow and shares some of his earnings for the welfare of the humanity, has recognized the real path of life.-----Guru Nanak, Sarang Ki Var, AGGS, Page, 1245

Man is a temple of God. All are creatures of God and Its creation. He who looks upon all men equal is religious. A true and clear perception of life is most essential towards realizing that purpose. It is of great importance to know ourselves, to know what we are and to know the various principles that can guide our progress toward spirituality. The spirituality declines as we cease to minister to the higher nature of man, and become subservient to the lower self or selfishness.

Hatred is not eliminated by hatred but with love, which is the eternal law. The Divine transcendence (metaphysical) and the Divine immanence (omnipotence) are the two complimentary concepts of life. A materialistic mind might degrade the spiritual state to a carnal one. In charity, if one donates to the poor on the street because he wants others to think well of him, the act does not enhance his spirituality. He is just inflating his personal Ego. But he, who gives out of a concern for the good of the recipient, is being benevolent and is furthering his spiritual progress.

One must make an honest effort to raise his/ her lower nature and make it fit for a union with God within us. Thus lower self has to die to its desires and passions and rise to the higher life of the spirit. Evil seeks to drag down the higher nature. We should seek its purification and elevation. Each step upwards may seem to be a death, but really is upward transformation of life. God is a spirit and should be worshiped in true spirit. To know the truth, one must become one with it. To tread the path one has to become the path himself. To know God one has to become one with the Divine within himself. God is absolute and without form. It is not anthropomorphic and is the cause of causes. Forgetting the God, who is an ocean of pleasures, one tosses up and down in the world ocean of delusions and deceptions. The strokes of the waves of World Ocean stir up the fire of five lower instincts. These continually burn the inner self. However, the Lord is the compassionate lover of his devotees, who humbly serve It. 

Bhagat Kabir in Raag Ramkali takes up this theme:

ਜਿਹ ਘਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਹੋਤ ਹਰਿ ਸੰਤਨ ਇਕ ਨਿਮਖ ਨ ਕੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੋ ਮੈ ਫੇਰਾ ॥ਲੰਪਟ ਚੋਰ ਦੂਤ ਮਤਵਾਰੇ ਤਿਨ ਸੰਗਿ ਸਦਾ ਬਸੇਰਾ ॥ਕਾਮ ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਦ ਮਤਸਰ ਏ ਸੰਪੈ ਮੋ ਮਾਹੀ ॥ਦਇਆ ਧਰਮੁ ਅਰੁ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਏ ਸੁਪਨੰਤਰਿ ਨਾਹੀ ॥

_Jih gẖar kathā hoṯ har sanṯan ik nimakẖ na kīnĥo mai fėrā. Lampat cẖor ḏūṯ maṯvārė ṯin sang saḏā basėrā. Kām kroḏẖ mā¬i¬ā maḏ maṯsar ė sampai mo māhī. Ḏa¬i¬ā ḏẖaram ar gur kī sėvā ė supnanṯar nāhī._

That house, in which the Saints speak of the Akal Purkh -- I have not visited it, even for an instant. Drunkards, thieves, and evil-doers -- I constantly dwell with them. Sexual desire, anger, the wine of Maya, and envy -- these are what I collect within myself. Compassion, righteousness, and service to the Guru -- these do not visit me, even in my dreams.

ਦੀਨ ਦਇਆਲ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲ ਦਮੋਦਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਬਛਲ ਭੈ ਹਾਰੀ॥ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਭੀਰ ਜਨ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰਉ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰੀ ॥ 

_Ḏīn ḏa¬i¬āl kirpāl ḏamoḏar bẖagaṯ bacẖẖal bẖai hārī. Kahaṯ Kabīr bẖīr jan rākẖo har sėvā kara¬o ṯumĥārī._

Akal Purkh is merciful to the meek, compassionate and benevolent, the Lover of Its devotees, the Destroyer of fear. Says Kabir, please protect Your humble servant from disaster; and I serve only You. -----Kabir, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 971-3, 4 & 5

True learning induces service of mankind in one’s mind. The trinity of self, mind and will are the irresolvable unit of our intellectual conception. Compassion is the basis of morality. A good heart is better than all the heads in the world. With out a rich heart, wealth is an ugly beggar. We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.

Strong and united communities are the foundation of a healthy society. It is the duty of every human being to respect and support people all over the world. It is our sacred responsibility to take care of our habitats and leave them better shape - physically, spiritually, and culturally.

Environmental stewardship is one aspect of this responsibility, as are caring for the less fortunate, and maintaining the values that make any country great. We should try to completely eradicate and eliminate the source of suffering with the Grace of Akal Purkh. The more we meditate on suffering, the deeper our compassion becomes, until one day we finally realize that to be of the greatest help to beings, we ourselves must attain enlightenment for the benefit of the others as advised by Guru Arjan in Raag Asa;

ਕਾਮ ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਦ ਮਤਸਰ ਏ ਖੇਲਤ ਸਭਿ ਜੂਐ ਹਾਰੇ ॥ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਦਇਆ ਧਰਮੁ ਸਚੁ ਇਹ ਅਪੁਨੈ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਵਾਰੇ ॥

_Kām kroḏẖ mā¬i¬ā maḏ maṯsar ė kẖėlaṯ sabẖ jū¬ai hārė. Saṯ sanṯokẖ ḏa¬i¬ā ḏẖaram sacẖ ih apunai garih bẖīṯar vārė._

I have got rid of all my vices like sexual desire, anger, and deceit. In the gamble of life I am glad to lose the falsehood of the world. The cycle of reincarnation is gone. I have gained instead, the virtues of truth, contentment, compassion, faith, duty, and purity of mind. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 379-3

*Conclusion:*

Compassion is the keen awareness of the interdependence of all things. Compassion is the ultimate and most meaningful embodiment of emotional maturity. It is through compassion that a person achieves the highest peak and deepest reach in his or her search for self-fulfillment. Compassion is not just a sentiment. It is doing justice and rendering works of mercy. Compassion is also not just a moral commandment. It is instead a flow and overflow of the fullest human and divine energies. It becomes infectious in the company of holy people as indicated by Guru Arjan in Raag, Jaitsari:

ਦਇਆ ਮਇਆ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਈ ਸੰਤ ਸੁਭਾਈ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਸਤਰੀਐ ਜਿਨ ਰਸਿ ਰਸਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਈ ॥

_Ḏa¬i¬ā ma¬i¬ā kirpā ṯẖākur kī sė¬ī sanṯ subẖā¬ī. Ŧin kai sang Nānak nisṯarī¬ai jin ras ras har gun gā¬ī._

Those whom the Akal Purkh blesses with Its Grace, Compassion, and Mercy are the sublime and sanctified saints. Associating with them, Nanak is saved; with love and exuberant joy, they sing the Glorious Praises of the Akal Purkh. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Jaitsari, AGGS, Page, 701-11

Cordially,

Virinder S. Grewal


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 2, 2009)

DYA..is NOT "ahimsa". Dharam cannot exist without DYA...but Ahimsa has nothing to do with Dharam...in the Plan of Things..Dya Came First..and then Dharam..this was taught to Sajjan Thuggh by Guru nanak.
DYA is "COMPASSION"...towards ALL...each of His Creations...see how sad GURU HAR RAI JI was when his hem got entangled with a rose and broke it off from its BRANCH...that is DYA. YET Many Hundreds of thousands of His SIKHS...each MORNING..bring FRESH FLOWERS to be matha tekked in front of SGGS..they FORGET or DISREGARD or IGNORE..teh GURVAAK in SGGS....patee toreh mallini...KILLING a LIVING FLOWER and placing it in front of SGGS ??? Yet these same Sikhs will "scream" so loudly at a "meat eater" and say how cruel..dya ?? MURGEE Martee..but what about PHULL torrthta ?? At the very least the murgee maaran wallah ate his murgee to fulfill desire for food.....what desire did the PHULL KILLER fulfill ??


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## Archived_Member_19 (Aug 2, 2009)

the murgee maran wala had option to eat something else too...maybe a ripe apple..


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## Randip Singh (Aug 3, 2009)

Huck_Finn said:


> the murgee maran wala had option to eat something else too...maybe a ripe apple..



Lets not go down this root. Thanks


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## Archived_Member_19 (Aug 3, 2009)

i agree.

it was just an answer to Gyani ji's logic.

Daya and Ahimsa as moral values have roots in one thing- "Choice"


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## Randip Singh (Aug 3, 2009)

I think Daya is more than this. 

I think Daya, is to give of ones self. Putting yourself in the position of others.

I think Guru Nanak describes Daya as willing to give of your life up for others.

I also think Daya applies to to those or that which are capable of Daya i.e. fellow humans.

On Gyani ji's point though, some of these people that claim Daya for all creatures are incredibly cruel to their fellow man. I remeber Animal "Rights" people here in the UK digging up the graves of relatives of those that worked in science labs. For me these people that can do this to a fellow man have a very warped sense of Dya.

On the one hand they care for all animals (or so they claim), yet the other side is incredible cruelty for their fellow man. These people that see animals as the same level as humans clearly need some sort of mental therapy.


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## Randip Singh (Aug 3, 2009)

Huck_Finn said:


> i agree.
> 
> it was just an answer to Gyani ji's logic.
> 
> Daya and Ahimsa as moral values have roots in one thing- "Choice"



No, disagree.

Ahimsa is, that you cannot use violence or defend yourself and others in any corcumstances.

Daya is, you have compassion for others and are willing to die for them.


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## spnadmin (Aug 3, 2009)

randip ji

Bhai Kanaiya in my opinion lived in daya even on the battle field. The story may not be true -- but the story embodies a truth.


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## Archived_Member_19 (Aug 3, 2009)

<<I also think Daya applies to to those or that which are capable of Daya i.e. fellow humans.>>

i find this too a bit warped logic.

 by this logic, because a lion has no daya for humans, you would kill it, irrespective of it being necessary for your survival or not?


if people think that Ahimsa means complete non violence, they are mistaken

here is a reference link

http://vedabase.net/a/ahimsa


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## Randip Singh (Aug 3, 2009)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> randip ji
> 
> Bhai Kanaiya in my opinion lived in daya even on the battle field. The story may not be true -- but the story embodies a truth.



Thats why I used his picture.

Also note, other water carriers fought, killed others and died in battle two.

Daya I think is not blind. It is specific to a time and place (and to people).

The Bhai Kanya example is perfect. During the battle, your concept of Daya is I must confront my enemy kill him in order to defend my fellow man, even if it means I die. After battle, that same Daya applies to those enemies on the battlefield, by giving them water.


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## Randip Singh (Aug 3, 2009)

Huck_Finn said:


> <<I also think Daya applies to to those or that which are capable of Daya i.e. fellow humans.>>
> 
> i find this too a bit warped logic.
> 
> ...



Again no.

If the lion didn't attack me, why would I kill it?

If it attacked me (or fellow man), Daya compels me to defend my fellow man (and even kill the lion).


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## Archived_Member_19 (Aug 3, 2009)

a shark fish attacks humans, but people love shark fin meat.

is it daya?


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## Randip Singh (Aug 3, 2009)

Huck_Finn said:


> a shark fish attacks humans, but people love shark fin meat.
> 
> is it daya?



Person kills an animal because he she eats it, I have no qualms about that. That animal has been put to good use. Someone kills an animal for no reason, then that person lacks Daya.

Someone kills a human being for food or no reason, that person lacks Daya. Human life is precious above all other life.

On the point of Ahimsa, I think it still differs from Daya. I think Daya is subjective possibly.


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## Archived_Member_19 (Aug 3, 2009)

even i agree that both differ

but they root philosophy behind both is very close.

It is Choice based

and Choice originating from Empathy.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 3, 2009)

The story is indeed true and its part of history of DYA in Gurmatt.
Guur nanak ji declared..aitee maar payee kurlanneh ten ke DARD na iayah..DARD is DYA..compassion for the suffering of untold humans/animals being slaughtered in battle between two strong forces..
It was DYA that led Guur Arjun to the Hot Plate and still declare..dosh an kahoon devohn..i blame no one...
It was DYA that led Guru Teg bahadur Ji to Chandni Chowk Delhi
It was DYA for  the fellow Indian which led to thousands of Akali Sikhs to die in the Independence struggle to free India....Bhagat Singh, Udahm Singh, Kartar Singh sarabha..Fredom Fighters, Kookas etc etc..


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## Randip Singh (Aug 3, 2009)

Huck_Finn said:


> even i agree that both differ
> 
> but they root philosophy behind both is very close.
> 
> ...


 
Ok this is interesting. Perhaps I was too quick in saying no.

Please expand.

Also lets discuss fundemental differences.

I will kick off with definitions.


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## Randip Singh (Aug 3, 2009)

Here are some defintions of both

http://www.hindupedia.com/en/Ahimsa

*




Ahimsa

From Hindupedia, the Hindu Encyclopedia

http://www.hindupedia.com/en/Ahimsa#searchInput#searchInput 
By Krishna Maheshwari 
Ahimsa (अहिंसा), loosely translated, means abstinence from violence either by thought, word, or deed. Non-injury requires a harmless mind, mouth, and hand. In a positive sense, it implies compassion and cosmic love. It is the development of a mental attitude in which hatred is replaced by love. The scriptures define ahimsa as the true sacrifice, forgiveness, power, and strength. At its core, ahimsa is based on the intentions of a person whose focus is to not harm anyone. 
Ahimsa is a Sanskrit word derived from the root hims, meaning to strike. Himsa means injury or harm. Literally translated, a-himsa means the opposite of himsa or non-injury or non-violence. 
The scriptures extol the virtues of Ahimsa and consider it an essential tenet of and guide for personal behavior. However, violence for the purpose of defending Dharma is equally essential and this violence is also considered to be ahimsa. 
Subtle forms of Violence

Ahimsa is ordinarily equated to its gross meaning which means 'not to hurt any living being physically'. At a more subtle level, ahimsa is violated when contempt is shown towards another being, by entertaining unreasonable dislike for or prejudice towards anybody, by frowning or hating or abusing another, by speaking ill of others, by backbiting or vilifying, by harbouring thoughts of hatred, by uttering lies, or by ruining another man in any way whatsoever. 
All harsh and rude speech is violence. Using harsh words to beggars, servants or inferiors is himsa. Wounding the feelings of others by gesture, expression, tone of voice and unkind words is also himsa. Slighting or showing deliberate discourtesy to a person before others is wanton himsa. To approve of another's harsh actions is indirect violence. To fail to relieve another's pain, or even to neglect to go to the person in distress is a sort of violence[1]. Violence by exclusion would also be himsa since you would be hurting some one's feelings by neglecting them or to deliberately exclude them from your interaction. 
Ahimsa comes from a Position of Strength

Ahimsa is the acme of bravery. Ahimsa is not possible without fearlessness. Ahimsa cannot be practiced by someone who is afraid of death and has no power of resistance and endurance. It is a shield, not of the effeminate, but of the potent. Ahimsa is a quality of the strong. It is a weapon of the strong. When a weak man is beaten with a stick by a stronger man, he cannot physically fight back. He may claim that he is non-violent, but harbors thoughts of revenge. This is not ahimsa. When a strong man is beaten by a stick, but does not harbor feelings of revenge, than his claim of ahimsa is true. The true follower of ahimsa does not entertain any thought of retaliation or any unkind feeling towards the tormentor. Ahimsa is the perfection of forgiveness. 
Jayadeva, the author of Gita-Govinda, gave large and rich presents to his enemies after they cut off his hands, and obtained Mukti for them through his sincere prayers. He said, "O my lord! Thou hast given Mukti to Thy enemies, Ravana and Kamsa. Why canst Thou not give Mukti to my enemies now?" 
Pavahari Baba carried the bag of vessels and followed a thief saying: "O Thief Narayana! I never knew that You visited my cottage. Pray accept these things." 
Limitations to the Practice of Non-violence

Absolute non-violence is impossible to implement in practice. One is expected to practice non-violence to the best of their ability and knowledge according to their varna and ashram and to strive to increase both over time. 
Absolute ahimsa would require one to avoid killing countless creatures while walking, sitting, eating, breathing, sleeping and drinking. This is not possible. In the Mahabharat Arjuna[2] states: 

sūkṣmayonīni bhūtāni tarka gamyāni kāni cit
pakṣmaṇo 'pi nipātena yeṣāṃ syāt skandhaparyayaḥ[3] 
You cannot find a single non-injurer in the world. You have to destroy life in order to live. It is physically impossible for you to obey the law of non-destruction of life, because the phagocytes of your blood also are destroying millions of dangerous intrusive spirilla, bacteria and germs.[4] 

Violence as Ahimsa

Ahimsa is not strictly non-violence--it also includes violence when required to defend dharma or in accordance with one's dharma. In the Bhagawad Gita, Lord Krishna tells Arjuna to pick up his bow and fight multiple times because it is his duty to do so. All the Gods are pictured in scripture as well as temples, etc, as having weapons and some are shown as inflicting punishment or killing (ie. Durga killing a demon). 
Violence is generally considered to be ignorance, but when used to protect the lives of the weak and defenseless, it is considered to be Ahimsa. In addition, Brahmins, Kshatriyas, and Vaishyas are also allowed to use violence against those that obstruct their duty[5]. For example, using violence to arrest a criminal would be considered ahimsa for a policeman; similarly punishing a criminal for a crime is considered ahimsa for a judge. In general, violence when used in accordance to dharma without any personal motivation is considered to be ahimsa.. 
A Universal Vow

Ahimsa is a universal vow that is required for self-realization. It is something that is applicable to everyone for themselves regardless of their varna or ashrama. It is a necessity for anyone who aims to control their mind. 
By nature, people are non-violent, but when harmed, it is easy for them to get angry and want retribution. However, ahimsa requires the elimination of reaction in anger. Rather, it requires the victim to change his perspective and no-longer see himself as a victim. 
For example, supposing children set fire to your house--the first action is not to punish the child--but to keep both yourself and the child safe and out of harms way. The second action is to extinguish the fire. 
Aggressors should be treated like the child in the example--lovingly prevent the aggressor from causing harm. No action should be motiviated by ill-will or anger. 
The practice of ahimsa contributes greatly to the yoga of mind control. The mind is like a demon. But see what wonders the demon, Vetala, accomplished for Vikramaditya after he had been brought under control. The mind will do us unlimited good if it is made subservient to us. Hanuman acquired his immense strength and was able to perform so many great and good deeds only because he had conquered his mind. The mind's power is immeasurable. All the cosmos is the work of the Supreme Goddess and in this creation of hers even the mind of a tiny ant pervades the entire universe[6]. 

ahiṁsāṣṭhāyām tatsannidau vairatyāgaḥ[7] 
As a Yogi becomes firmly grounded in ahimsa, other people who comes in contact with him will naturally lose any feelings of hostility. [8] 

It is easy to claim oral allegiance to the principle of non-injury but difficult to practice. Quarrels and disputes are inevitable and actions must be taken to resolve them. The motivation of the action determines whether the action conforms to the ideals enshrined in ahimsa. Violence born out of the necessity of the greater good without greed or personal benefit is not a violation of ahimsa. 
Ahimsa Parama Dharma

Main article: Ahimsa Paramo Dharma
"Ahimsa Paramo Dharma" is a Sanskrit phrase that was popularized by Mahatma Gandhi and is often repeated by many leaders today to demonstrate the universality of Ahimsa. Loosely translated, it means Ahimsa is the ultimate/supreme duty. It is only recommended for sannyasins who tread the path of Nivritti Marga. The statement, taken in full context and meaning as is applicable to most people is 

Ahimsa Paramo Dharma
Dharma himsa tathaiva cha[9] 
Non-violence is the ultimate dharma. So too is violence in service of Dharma. 

Ahimsa in Scriptures

Main article: Ahimsa in Scriptures
Ahimsa is mentioned many times in different scriptures ranging from the Sruti such as the Rig Veda to Smriti such as the Patanjali Yoga Sutra to itihaas such as the Mahabharata. Despite the fact that it is considered to be a fundamental concept, however, there is no single place where it is exhaustively dealt with. Rather, it is mentioned across the breadth of scriptures, each time, in relationship with other topics that are under discussion. 

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Ahimsa is among the various qualities of living beings are created by Me alone. 

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—Lord Krishna, Bhagawad Gita, 10.4-5​

Scriptures Ahimsa is mentioned in: 
Ahimsa and Food

Ahimsa requires that practitioners be vegetarian since eating meat generally requires killing or harming a creature. Even vegetarians can be accused of himsa considering plants have life. If a vegetarian tailors his food based on scripture, even that can be avoided. 
For example, it has been proved that in the case of plants, their lifeline runs in the trunk in some cases, roots in others and seeds in yet others. It is for this reason that sastra has prohibited cutting the plants at their respective lifelines. Thus cutting and eating parts through which the lifeline does not run is similar to cutting the hair of an animals or the human finger nails. 
Definition of Ahimsa is Role & Situation Dependent

The definition of ahimsa is dependent on whom it is being applied. It depends on varna, ashrama, role in society. Similarly, the definition of ahimsa changes when applied to a single person versus a group, town, or country. The definition of ahimsa is always aligned with the dharma of the subject/person under consideration. This definition also changes depending on the circumstances in which it is being applied. 
Key to following ahimsa is a person's motivation behind action. The same act down with two different motivations may result in one being classified as ahimsa while the other as himsa. For example, if a country is invaded--the defending soldier must kill the aggressors. The first soldier fights to defend his country and thus follows the principles of ahisma. The second soldier fights for revenge because his country has been attacked--and thus does not follow the principles of ahimsa. 
The intention must be based on righteousness and dharma and be devoid of selfish motivation. 

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http://en.mimi.hu/yoga/daya.html



> *daya*: compassion to all beings.
> dharma: right action, truth in action, righteousness, morality, virtue, duty, the dictates of God, code of conduct. The inner constitution of a thing that governs its growth.
> drishti: lit. "pure seeing." ...
> 
> ...


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## spnadmin (Aug 3, 2009)

Just to travel back in history once again to the days of the Guru's.

Guru Gobind Singh gave a theory of "the just war" as complete philosophically in the     Zafarnama           as any other treatise written. James Watkins on "just war"

Bhai Kanaiya's actions and the Guru's comprehension of them in the face of criticism are precursors to contemporary thinking about  the humanitarian treatment of warriors who were  dead and dying as written in the Geneva convention. GENEVA CONVENTION

Daya and ahimsa are ancient philosophical concepts to give meaning to the actions of both Guru Gobind and Bhai Kanaiya ji


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## Tejwant Singh (Aug 3, 2009)

Sadh Sangat,

Guru Fateh.

From the Sikhi viewpoint, Daya for me is Compassion with Empathy... Which means a shoulder to lean on plus  offering the skills to move ahead. Mercy is more like asking to feel sorry for the  one..

Ahimsa is more an empty word in Hindu doctrine, although sentimentally it may be appealing to some. Ahimsa made Mughals abduct Hindu girls and rape them. Ahimsa made all the invasions possible in India. Ahimsa lacks grit and courage to fight injustice when it is needed the most. In other words Ahimsa is burying one's head in sand.


Tejwant Singh


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## Archived_Member_19 (Aug 3, 2009)

<<Ahimsa is more an empty word in Hindu doctrine, although sentimentally it may be appealing to some. Ahimsa made Mughals abduct Hindu girls and rape them. Ahimsa made all the invasions possible in India. Ahimsa lacks grit and courage to fight injustice when it is needed the most. In other words Ahimsa is burying one's head in sand.>>

wonderful deduction


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## Randip Singh (Aug 4, 2009)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Sadh Sangat,





Tejwant Singh said:


> Guru Fateh.
> 
> From the Sikhi viewpoint, Daya for me is Compassion with Empathy... Which means a shoulder to lean on plus offering the skills to move ahead. Mercy is more like asking to feel sorry for the one..
> 
> ...




Exactly. This is the problem we have from Punjabi/Sanskrit/Persian translations to English. There is not one word that adequately describes the term.

To say Daya is the same as compassion for every living thing puts it in the same boat as Ahimsa, and we know the Guru’s were dead against Ahimsa.

Would it be safe to say the following:

*Daya* – seeing things from another’s point of view and having sympathy enough to want to stand up for that person (even if it means sacrificing your own life). Daya applies to those who potentially have the capacity to have Daya themselves i.e. humans.

*Ahimsa* – not wishing to harm anything, or any creature, and if someone does something bad to you leaving it to divine retribution and Karma to set things right.

Daya is subjective.
Ahimsa is objective.


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