# Interest Payments



## Platinum007 (Jan 17, 2005)

Is interest payments against the Sikh religion?

In reguards to male/female sex, is oral sex allowed?. anal sex?

Is smoking cigerettes against the sikh religion?

thank you kindly, i hope to hear some informative and logicaly sound answers

have a good day


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## BabbarSher (Jan 18, 2005)

Is interest payments against the Sikh religion?

>>>>>>>Khalsa is a close knit community, where everyone has to work (kirt Karni) Share (wand Chakna) and remember God (Naam Japna). 

If we were to follow the ideals of Khalsa, there would not arise a situation of money lending with interest. 

Sikhi instead of addressing all permutations and combinatins gives you a way of life which avoides all such siutation to arise in the first place. 



In reguards to male/female sex, is oral sex allowed?. anal sex?

>>>>>>>>In sikhism one is to consummate with one's spouse only. 

Personally I think Oral sex is Ok .. as in nature even animals indulge in it. 

Anal Sex on the other hand is very uncommon.. so i think it is not allowed. 

<<This is a highly personal thing and views may differ, howervr it is clear that only sex with one's spouse is allowed>> 

<<Now dont start asking me about Fetishes ;-) ..kidding 

Is smoking cigerettes against the sikh religion?

>>>>>Yes. smoking, drinking and taking drugs are not allowed in sikhi. In fact eating and drinking anything which can lead our mind astray and cloud our thinking is forbidden

thank you kindly, i hope to hear some informative and logicaly sound answers


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## Platinum007 (Jan 19, 2005)

> Sikhi instead of addressing all permutations and combinatins gives you a way of life which avoides all such siutation to arise in the first place.



can you please elaborate a little more?
Interest is very common in modern day society, what if a sikh needs to borrow money from a bank?.. is it a sin for him/her to accept it with interest?



> Yes. smoking, drinking and taking drugs are not allowed in sikhi. In fact eating and drinking anything which can lead our mind astray and cloud our thinking is forbidden


I smoke and smoking doesn't make my mind go astray and cloud my thinking.
AND MANY smokers will tell you that.



> Anal Sex on the other hand is very uncommon.. so i think it is not allowed


so becuase its uncommon its not allowed?..then again that seems like your OPINION

can someone give a definate yes/no answer with a REASON


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## Platinum007 (Jan 19, 2005)

anyone?, i'm very interested... i would be very thankful if a answer was provided (yes/no) with a logical reason behind it...


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## GushK (Jan 20, 2005)

Hi Platinum007

Firstly I’d like to say how good it is to see some new faces and hear some fresh ideas.

Now down to business. I think the main reason you don't get replies for some of the questions you ask is because, for a Gursikh, these questions are meaningless, or more to the point irrelevant. Let me explain.

The only goal in a Sikh's life (and a very precious and fragile life it is) to be able to merge with the formless, see God and become one with God.
The Guru Granth Sahib is our guide for this.

Anything which can detract from this goal is basically considered un-sikhi.
Some things are outright banned, others frowned upon and the rest left to your own intelligence.

A Sikh must adhere to some basic tenants, some can be rationalised by our own meagre intelligence, and other things must be taken on faith.

A Sikh must adhere to 3 basic rules of living: -
Naam Japna (Always remember God)
Kirat Karna (Live a honest Life and to earn your living with honest labour)
Vand Chakna (Share these earnings with others who are less fortunate)


Along with the above, we also have the tenant of maintaining the external appearance i.e. 5k's (as ordained by Guru Gobind Singh Ji) and by reciting (I suppose reciting is a bad word, how about learning, understanding and living) a set of prayers (morning, evening and night) as a minimum requierment.

There are 4 cardinal sins (absolute don’ts)
(1) Forcible Removal of Body Hair 
(2) Consumption of Tobacco/Drugs/Alcohol or other Intoxicants (and yes tobacco is specifically included)
(3) Adultery
(4) Consumption of Halal (and any Sacrificial) meat


Anything more than this, the answer either lies within the Guru Granth Sahib or our own knowledge/intelligence.

Sikhi lists 5 sins that need to be controlled and as an ultimate aim, eliminated.
Kaam	- Lust
Krodh	- Anger
Lobh	- Greed
Moh	- Worldly attachment (to anything, property, money, family , spouse etc)
Hankar 	- Ego

Of all of these, Hankar is the most important, since almost every sin leads to a root of Ego. Once "self" can be eliminated, the rest of them disappear and you are well on the way to spiritual enlightenment.


So in answer to some of the questions you've put: -

Smoking - absolutely forbidden (even if it wasn't, it is bad for you, takes you no closer to God so has no place in a Sikh's life).

Paying interest on money - irrelevant. Has no relevance to taking you closer to or further from God. Almost everyone needs a mortgage to even get a roof over his or her heads (unless they have a rich family!).

Anal Sex - is a desire, part of Kaam, thus has no place in a Sikh's life.


The rest I leave to you. Judge for yourself....rather than asking what is "allowed" why not ask..

What actions/questions/pursuits of life will bring me closer to God?


Hope this helps.
(i apologise in advance for any mistakes and misleading facts)

Gursharan Singh


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## CaramelChocolate (Jan 20, 2005)

GushK said:
			
		

> Anal Sex - is a desire, part of Kaam, thus has no place in a Sikh's life.


No, it is form of expressing love when in stable loving relationship, along with oral and vaginal sex.

Sikhs are individuals. Such ideas as sex for procreation only is not part of Sikhism, it is part of Hinduism... it is also a type of fast, however, addiction to sex and sex outside of marriage is frowned upon. Also, snogging/french kissing, oral sex, anal sex are sodomy which is prohibited in Islam, but again Sikhism is individual so it is allowed within marriage only and not to become addicted to and obsessed with.


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## GushK (Jan 20, 2005)

CaramelChocolate said:
			
		

> No, it is form of expressing love when in stable loving relationship, along with oral and vaginal sex.
> 
> .... it is allowed within marriage only and not to become addicted to and obsessed with.


Lets just call this a difference of opinion then.
I agree that once it becomes an obsession, that's completely wrong but I see love and sex as 2 distinct entities. One does not necessarily imply the other.

2 people can love but never have the urge to have sex. The sexual urge is just that...an urge, not a requirement. 

Once a person has fully tasted the divine sweetness of Naam, everything else pales in comparison. Sex then falls to the role of allowing procreation. Not because you have been told or because it's a Sikh or Hindu "thing", but because you have no more need of it. The urge has been extinguished.

Regards
Gursharan Singh


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## CaramelChocolate (Jan 20, 2005)

GushK said:
			
		

> but because you have no more need of it. The urge has been extinguished.


I agree but such a state is very hard for mankind to achieve and hence religion settles this by giving laws of justification for sex, these being - emotion [love], moderation [not too frequently] and modesty [marriage, not in public or in front of others].


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## Platinum007 (Jan 21, 2005)

GushK thank you kindly as for the smoking one can argue that eating deep oil fried food is just as bad as smoking?.. so if smoking is bad for my health does that mean a sikh should not do anything else thats bad for his/her health?..like the food example i just provided.

"Paying interest on money - irrelevant. Has no relevance to taking you closer to or further from God. Almost everyone needs a mortgage to even get a roof over his or her heads (unless they have a rich family!)." thats true, but having interest payment only adds berdon on the person pay it back. Why cause another human to go through such stress??.. wouldn't that lead me future away from God?


> 2 people can love but never have the urge to have sex. The sexual urge is just that...an urge, not a requirement



according to science when two humans fall in love chemicals in the brain are released that influence the body to engage into sexual intercourse.
So sex very well falls hand in hand with love... its possible to live a sexless life while in love but then your just fighting these NATURAL desires that God "programmed" into us.


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## GushK (Jan 21, 2005)

With fried food, yes, you're basically right but that's a general health thing anyway. 
Guru Amar Das Ji advocated living a simple life and himself lived on a diet of rice and lentils.

I'm a 4x a week gym person, pretty health conscious and do avoid fried foods where possible.
With the smoking, it IS expressly forbidden in Sikhism (I find it very comforting to know that the Guru's had the foresight to see the dangers of tobacco and ban it outright, hundreds of years ago)


Now back to your questions...Interest has existed almost as long as any currency has, it's not a new 20th century invention.
Regardless of this, paying interest or not, is part of the environment and social conditions you live in. Dunno how it is in Canada, but here in the UK, to be able to afford anything requires taking a loan/mortgage. 
Paying it off is neither a burden nor a hindrance, just part and parcel of where I live.
I try to earn an honest living and lead a simple life as possible, other than selling up and living as a wandering hermit, I don't see that I can do any more!

The sex/love/desire thing.... you're again confusing "animal instincts" with godly properties.
It's because everyone reverts back to these instincts, that the world is in the state it is today. I'd have to say God's "programming" is very different. It's just that we ignore it and let animal desires cloud over God's programming. The Guru Granth Sahib is our guide to clearing away this fog.

One of the purposes of a Sikh’s life is to learn to control "Desire" and "Self" till they are non-existent.
The ability to become detached from this world of pain and enjoin yourself at the feet of the Lord. That's the aim.

Until someone has experienced, even a tiny portion of, this bliss it is hard to explain why these "natural desires" fall short and taste.... bland.


Gursharan Singh


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## Platinum007 (Jan 24, 2005)

yes, fried food is a general health thingy and so is smoking cigerettes.. 
so if smoking is bad, so should deep fried food in sikhi,
maybe i'm just seeing things differently...

but as for the other responses, thank you for the insight into sikhism 
thank you kindly


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## Platinum007 (Jan 24, 2005)

as for the interest payments thats more of YOUR point of view, not sikhi, 
here is how i feel.. my friends including me have interest rates that are making us work longer hours to pay them off... i'd rather spend that time studying or with family/friends that then worry about money.. so yes its a burdon on our lives and there is pressure to pay it off..

so what does sikhi have to say about such situatioins rising.. of course we all have to take loans no doubt, none of us can avoid it. 

i'm sorry but i feel as if i still didn't get a answer in reguards to interest but rather "personal views".. if i'm reading wrong, or missing a point can someone please help me out understanding this ...


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## Saheb Singh (Feb 12, 2005)

Sikhism is a spiritual consiousness and not body consiouness.
Re Sex discussion .as lust if satsified changes its course into greed ( having more ) and if not then moves towards anger and continuing its course it shapes down to memory loss ,wrong behaviours,less concentration .
Still greed of having more turns down to emotional attachment which surely is finalized to False Ego ,thus the whole process remains in 3 qualitied MAYA which our spiritual master guides us to the fact that indulging mind in such activities descends higher conciouness of mind thus loosing its very precious birth .
Gurbani alerts that mind ur the light of waheguru thus know ur reality which rather means not a normal mind but higher divine consiouse mind which can be only acquired by leaving actions which are hindrance to spiritual path.
And wat i can say is HEALTHIER BODY HAS HEALTHIER MIND .
WBR


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## harwant (Apr 7, 2006)

Hi guys

I am new to this forum but I have a few thoughts on the matter albiet conflicting ones.

Firstly as an evolutionary biologist and being Sikh myself it is difficult to comprhend the ideas behind sexual cts.  Now evolutionarily humans are designed to procreate as 'normal' i.e. penetration nothing else- but we also want pleasure and will put miimum effore into getting max results- if it feels good and we can convince our mate to perform oral than we will do that- this is oftne innate and pre-cultural (b4 religion).  There are even homo monkeys- how do u explain that its part of life.

On the other hand it could be argued that peno-vaginal penetration is the only way.  eg a man needs a woman for pentration that feeling is unique and can lead to a new life.  However a man or woman (excuse my vulgarness) can get oral from anyone of any sex- nothing procreative about it- its pure plaesure no purpose 

So ... its own self moral (perhaps religious disciplne agains 'animal instinct' that shapes the indivuals desire in the sexual arena)

Confused... well I am!Lol


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