# What Does Meditation Mean In Sikhism?



## kggr001

What I think that meditating means is becoming super conscious, being one with the divine. I believe that everyone has his/her own way of doing that. One might do it in the vedic ways, the other might meditate by doing sewa, The other by reading and understanding the GGS ji. And some other person might be meditate by just realizing the greatness of the lord. These 4 methods works for me someone else might have his/her own ways to feel connected to the one.




 

How does Sikhi define Meditation, and how should one meditate in Sikhi?


----------



## Luckysingh

May be we should try and address what ""meditation'' means outside of sikhi, if anything different.

The problem is that many of us have our own versions of meditation, including what and how it is done.


----------



## itsmaneet

kggr001 said:


> What I think that meditating means is becoming super conscious, being one with the divine. I believe that everyone has his/her own way of doing that. One might do it in the vedic ways, the other might meditate by doing sewa, The other by reading and understanding the GGS ji. And some other person might be meditate by just realizing the greatness of the lord. These 4 methods works for me someone else might have his/her own ways to feel connected to the one.
> 
> How does Sikhi define Meditation, and how should one meditate in Sikhi?



I agree with your above views. Meditating on the Gurmantar 'Waheguru' is most appropriate for a Sikh.

Gurfateh !


----------



## Harkiran Kaur

Meditate to me = Focus / Concentration.

So when it says meditate upon ______  to me its saying focus upon ______ or concentrate upon _______.

How one decides to do this may differ from someone else.  Sitting Cross legged, eyes closed, naam jaap / simran - for others it might be while doing seva thinking of Waheguru in their mind... but I think the general idea is to consciously focusing inward, and concentration.


----------



## Seeker9

Probably means much the same as with a lot of other paths. The mind naturally is full of thoughts that are attached to our human lives. Some means is required to still the mind as completely as you can. Once in that clean clear state, you are more conducive to reflecting on spiritual matters


----------



## Seeker9

All I guess I should clarify my last post by saying that I am not saying there are secret words, physical positions, special times, rituals lighting candles etc. To me the goal is to discipline an undisciplined mind.


----------



## Abneet

Naam Simran is seen as contemplative meditation whether using the Mool Mantar or Vaheguru.The thing that you can say it 125,000 times or so but you have to have full focus to gain benefits of Naam Simran. The thing is what to focus on? If you need something to focus in your mind, focus on the picture of guru nanak dev ji that Sant Nand Singh managed because he did luckily get a real glimpse at him. :sippingcoffeemunda: But to the point, it can take a lot of practice to have your mann set straight and away from bad thoughts. Now I'm not telling you to quit your job and just meditate rest of your life lol, but doing seva and naam simran can really be beneficial to one practicing Naam. Both go together very well.

Now others might say kundalini yoga practice and meditation are part of Sikhi. As of today, it looks like it is quite popular west of America. Though in the future it should not be allowed due to people practicing and doing nonsense rituals behind it.


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Meditation..renunciation..bathing at sacred places, recitations of mantars, jaaps, pilgrimages, etc etc etc had been going on since ages before Guru nanak ji..the question to consider is whether we believe that Guru Nanak ji.s Divine Message is simply OLD wine in a ew bottle or recycled Message already revealed in the Vedas Puranas Kitabs...??

OR do we believe that Guru nanak ji and His Divine Message is a Complete NEW Gyaan of the Creator..a Brand New way of doing things..new ways, new language, new meanings to old words..new paathways...new thoughts...new METHODS of KNOWING the CREATOR.  Why did the GURU go to Kailash Parbatt, Mecca Medina, Benares, hardwaar, Kanshi, Mathura..and what did the Guru discuss with the assembled Yogis, mahapurahs, maha Gyanis Pirs and Sanyaisees etc etc ? These people were WELL versed..in fact the MASTERS of the OLD WAYS..established and founded with deep roots...Did the GURU hold the dialogue - IMPORTANT ENOUGH for Guru Ji to write it down as Siddh Ghosht. Is Siddh Ghosht ENDORSING what the Yogis saadhs holy men were doing ? Guru Ji saw them sitting cross legged, eyes closed, chanting, etc etc etc...is there even ONE TUK in the entire SGGS ENDORSING those ways and methods of "meditation" renunciation jaaps mantars etc etc ?? IF NOT then we ahve to consider why didnt Guru Ji endorse them....but TUKS condemning these unnecessary methods etc are many...

Did Guru Ji just Change from Har har mahadev to vaheguru ?? Har har Mahadev and many other chants were being used for Meditation etc....did GURU ji say Waheguru is better ?? IN fact the earlier Names of the Creator are many and used in the GURUbani..much more than Waheguru which is used only by the Bhatts and the word is NOT a "name" per se but an EXCLAMATION !!! ( WONDROUS GURU Wah-Guru).
So are we so buys Counting the TREES that we forget to Taste the Fruit..when the GURU clearly directs us..EAT and DIGEST...Khaveh Bhuncheh tis ka hoyeh udharoh..ONLY those who eat, chew.. and digest food get its benefits..  same for Mann Food !!

Guru Nanak ji STRESSED ACTION...KARAM....Karmee aveh Kapprrah....YOUR ACTIONS RESULT in HONOUR /dishonour !! The GURU WORKED..He married..He travelled..he preached..He sweated..he earned and He SHARED.  The Very Same things that the CREATOR DOES...HE ACTS via His laws and Nature etc..He is a DOER..and He distributes..DENDA DEH laindeh thaak paiyeh...

The SIKH is an ACTION fellow..he works..he earns honest labour..he shares..he has discipline..he takes RESPONSIBILITES ( the sadhus and Yoguis shirked responsibility)..he is a Benefit to society, the samaaj..he is social (not recluse sitting in underground caves or in jungles)..

2. SIKHS have "Darshan" of the Jagdee JYOT of Das Patshahs SGGS DAILY on doing parkash  and Paath. This is merely looking..REAL DARSHAN is FOLLOWING and adopting the Gurus HUKMNAMAH after it has been taken or lsitened to...
With the Jagdee Jyot of 10 Gurus present before us..SOME stubbornly continue to claim their Waddeh baba Ji had a "glimpse" of Guru nanak Ji..others claim they saw Guru gobind Singh Ji on a Horse in Hemkunt..blah blah blah. Whatever for ?? There is NOT a single claim in our History that Sikhs contineud to pine for a "glimpse" of Guru nanak ji when the Guru was Guru Angad Sahib Ji...No one had any glimpses of Guru Angad Sahib Ji when Guru Amardass Ji was GURU..and so on...ARE we SIKHS of the post 1708 era...been bitten by RABID DOGS that we HALLUCINATE ?? we have "glimpses" of GURUS that are no longer around BUT CANNOT SEE the GURU PRESENT as SGGS..a GURU that was commanded to be accepted as SOLE GURU by the Predecessor Guru gobind Singh Ji ??  Are we admitting that we DONT actually have Full FAITH in the SGGS as GURU..we still "need to hallucinate" that we saw this Guru  and that Guru ??And we then put those "hallucinations" on to a Canvas Via a THIRD Party (portrait painter) and claim that the hallucination is the REAL GURU NANAK ?? I think thats really a case for Anti-Rabies injections. Didnt the GURUS have the Very BEST painters, portrait artists who would have painted the most authentic portraits like the ones we have of the Mughal Emperors ?? WHY didnt the GURS ALLOW such paintings and have their PERSONAL histories RECORDED ?? They wrote their Gurbani themselves..BUT didnt do all that stuff ????  Are we better than Guru nanak ji to imagine "the real" Guru nanak  ?? and install that photo in Sikh homes as authentic ??

Part two to follow...


----------



## Abneet

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Meditation..renunciation..bathing at sacred places, recitations of mantars, jaaps, pilgrimages, etc etc etc had been going on since ages before Guru nanak ji..the question to consider is whether we believe that Guru Nanak ji.s Divine Message is simply OLD wine in a ew bottle or recycled Message already revealed in the Vedas Puranas Kitabs...??
> 
> OR do we believe that Guru nanak ji and His Divine Message is a Complete NEW Gyaan of the Creator..a Brand New way of doing things..new ways, new language, new meanings to old words..new paathways...new thoughts...new METHODS of KNOWING the CREATOR.  Why did the GURU go to Kailash Parbatt, Mecca Medina, Benares, hardwaar, Kanshi, Mathura..and what did the Guru discuss with the assembled Yogis, mahapurahs, maha Gyanis Pirs and Sanyaisees etc etc ? These people were WELL versed..in fact the MASTERS of the OLD WAYS..established and founded with deep roots...Did the GURU hold the dialogue - IMPORTANT ENOUGH for Guru Ji to write it down as Siddh Ghosht. Is Siddh Ghosht ENDORSING what the Yogis saadhs holy men were doing ? Guru Ji saw them sitting cross legged, eyes closed, chanting, etc etc etc...is there even ONE TUK in the entire Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ENDORSING those ways and methods of "meditation" renunciation jaaps mantars etc etc ?? IF NOT then we ahve to consider why didnt Guru Ji endorse them....but TUKS condemning these unnecessary methods etc are many...
> 
> Did Guru Ji just Change from Har har mahadev to vaheguru ?? Har har Mahadev and many other chants were being used for Meditation etc....did GURU ji say Waheguru is better ?? IN fact the earlier Names of the Creator are many and used in the GURUbani..much more than Waheguru which is used only by the Bhatts and the word is NOT a "name" per se but an EXCLAMATION !!! ( WONDROUS GURU Wah-Guru).
> So are we so buys Counting the TREES that we forget to Taste the Fruit..when the GURU clearly directs us..EAT and DIGEST...Khaveh Bhuncheh tis ka hoyeh udharoh..ONLY those who eat, chew.. and digest food get its benefits..  same for Mann Food !!
> 
> Guru Nanak ji STRESSED ACTION...KARAM....Karmee aveh Kapprrah....YOUR ACTIONS RESULT in HONOUR /dishonour !! The GURU WORKED..He married..He travelled..he preached..He sweated..he earned and He SHARED.  The Very Same things that the CREATOR DOES...HE ACTS via His laws and Nature etc..He is a DOER..and He distributes..DENDA DEH laindeh thaak paiyeh...
> 
> The SIKH is an ACTION fellow..he works..he earns honest labour..he shares..he has discipline..he takes RESPONSIBILITES ( the sadhus and Yoguis shirked responsibility)..he is a Benefit to society, the samaaj..he is social (not recluse sitting in underground caves or in jungles)..
> 
> 2. SIKHS have "Darshan" of the Jagdee JYOT of Das Patshahs Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji DAILY on doing parkash  and Paath. This is merely looking..REAL DARSHAN is FOLLOWING and adopting the Gurus HUKMNAMAH after it has been taken or lsitened to...
> With the Jagdee Jyot of 10 Gurus present before us..SOME stubbornly continue to claim their Waddeh baba Ji had a "glimpse" of Guru nanak Ji..others claim they saw Guru gobind Singh Ji on a Horse in Hemkunt..blah blah blah. Whatever for ?? There is NOT a single claim in our History that Sikhs contineud to pine for a "glimpse" of Guru nanak ji when the Guru was Guru Angad Sahib Ji...No one had any glimpses of Guru Angad Sahib Ji when Guru Amardass Ji was GURU..and so on...ARE we SIKHS of the post 1708 era...been bitten by RABID DOGS that we HALLUCINATE ?? we have "glimpses" of GURUS that are no longer around BUT CANNOT SEE the GURU PRESENT as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..a GURU that was commanded to be accepted as SOLE GURU by the Predecessor Guru gobind Singh Ji ??  Are we admitting that we DONT actually have Full FAITH in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as GURU..we still "need to hallucinate" that we saw this Guru  and that Guru ??And we then put those "hallucinations" on to a Canvas Via a THIRD Party (portrait painter) and claim that the hallucination is the REAL GURU NANAK ?? I think thats really a case for Anti-Rabies injections. Didnt the GURUS have the Very BEST painters, portrait artists who would have painted the most authentic portraits like the ones we have of the Mughal Emperors ?? WHY didnt the GURS ALLOW such paintings and have their PERSONAL histories RECORDED ?? They wrote their Gurbani themselves..BUT didnt do all that stuff ????  Are we better than Guru nanak ji to imagine "the real" Guru nanak  ?? and install that photo in Sikh homes as authentic ??
> 
> Part two to follow...



The Gursikhs are here to bring Sikhs closer to GGS. If they do their own manmat thats not according to GGS then we should know its wrong. Speaking of seeing glimpse of Gurus. Jarnail Ji, it is a blessing to get darshan of our guru 's in our lifetime, but even better to merge with the One. Baba Nand Singh did so much kirat and seva in his life why are you scolding such people. He got that picture for people to focus on something when doing simran. You wanna start bashing on the concept of Naam Simran? He saw GGS as Satguru Nanak Devi Ji. He brought people closer to GGS and taught people. We can judge others, but ask first how much have we done ourselves? Including me I am nothing compared to them the real Sants have done their seva in this world and left. We should be inspired by them and take their sayings of having faith in GGS and study it.


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh

SGGS declares.."darshan p{censored}eyeah Guru keh Janam maran DUKH jayeh..."...
Are we sikhs being asked merely to go to Gurdwara daily (or even once in a blue moon)..pick up the rumallah..and have 'darshan"...do aprkirma and all our dukhs janam maran goes away..or just mathatek..and "darshan" routine is complete...or sit a while..and listen...to the granthi/pathi singh muttering away..and think thats it..duty done..mission accomplished...??

IMHO.."darshan" implies ACTION...we have to LIVE our life..CHANGE our habits..follow the Gurmatt way..only then can we hope for GURPARSAAD to get the phall we desire...sadly 99% of us are satisfied with the the actions in first para as "Darshan"....

Some clever ones claim they have seen the "CHEF"...but cant see the RECIPE...or even take the effort to COOK/Bake as per the recipe...Can looking at an imaginary painting of the CHEF..do any good ??..we have to get off our butt and ACT..buy the ingredients, do what the recipe requires..bake the cake..EAT it..chew IT..and get the benefits....ONLY then is it Mission accomplished. No Amount of closed eyes, mutters,  sitting cross legged, in darkness or dimmed lights... whatever are going to get the cake baked.....Haan Ji..accepted that AFTER the cake has been baked, chewed eaten and digested..we can sit back and relax..closed eyes, crossed legs..lights dimmed..and REFLECT on the feeling...BLISS...taste of the cake on our tongues and on our minds...NAAM...BUT bake the cake first...


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh

The REAL BLESSING is SGGS....what the GURU Himself gifted us..left it for us..ordained us to obey...1429 pages of the SGGS..Needs SEVERAL LIFETIMES....just as the Gurus needed 10 to give it to us..we need many many more than 10 to really appreciate it...so I fail to see any "blessing" elsewhere. I am already 65..have spent the past 60 years at the Lotus Charan of SGGS..still find myself at EK Oangkaar...as an Woodworth wrote..I have many miles to go..many promsies to keep before i sleep..Din gavaeh khhan vich..raat gavai sunn vich..life is short....FOCUS on EK Oangkaar takes so much effort..why waste time on imaginary paintings no one can authenticate.

Apologies if you saw my writing as "scolding"...not my intention..I ma just very PASSIONATE about what I beleive in..so get a little carried away but never compromise on satikaar of SGGS.

You are a student..do you study your text books or you need a picture of the professor to "focus" on the questions in the exam ???..I would tell my studnets to FOCUS on the TEXT....not a picture of mine as their teacher..and thats WHY GURU SAHIBS didnt have their portraits painted...They did not want their SIKHS to keep on focussing on their faces/bodies...and neglect the Gurbani/Gurmatt.


----------



## Abneet

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji declares.."darshan p{censored}eyeah Guru keh Janam maran DUKH jayeh..."...
> Are we sikhs being asked merely to go to Gurdwara daily (or even once in a blue moon)..pick up the rumallah..and have 'darshan"...do aprkirma and all our dukhs janam maran goes away..or just mathatek..and "darshan" routine is complete...or sit a while..and listen...to the granthi/pathi singh muttering away..and think thats it..duty done..mission accomplished...??
> 
> IMHO.."darshan" implies ACTION...we have to LIVE our life..CHANGE our habits..follow the Gurmatt way..only then can we hope for GURPARSAAD to get the phall we desire...sadly 99% of us are satisfied with the the actions in first para as "Darshan"....
> 
> Some clever ones claim they have seen the "CHEF"...but cant see the RECIPE...or even take the effort to COOK/Bake as per the recipe...Can looking at an imaginary painting of the CHEF..do any good ??..we have to get off our butt and ACT..buy the ingredients, do what the recipe requires..bake the cake..EAT it..chew IT..and get the benefits....ONLY then is it Mission accomplished. No Amount of closed eyes, mutters,  sitting cross legged, in darkness or dimmed lights... whatever are going to get the cake baked.....Haan Ji..accepted that AFTER the cake has been baked, chewed eaten and digested..we can sit back and relax..closed eyes, crossed legs..lights dimmed..and REFLECT on the feeling...BLISS...taste of the cake on our tongues and on our minds...NAAM...BUT bake the cake first...



I see what your saying. Doing bhagti does help us mentally to fight the panj chor in our mind. Naam Simran is there to help us. I only referred to that picture while doing Naam Simran. While reciting Bani that picture is irrelevant you have to then focus and analyze the text. Is Naam Simran what Guru Nanak Devi Ji really went against? Also The Khalsa fight the panj chor daily. On top of that your right, we shouldn't just be worried about bhagti but focus on kirat too. Honest work has to be done too no doubt. But bhagti is done to help you spiritually in this world. Both can be done. One should balance with the other. But we choose what we want to focus on. These days, many Sikhs,especially in Punjab, aren't interested in working to make a change.

On the point of Sants, I see no problem of them giving bachans and such to sangat to help with their jeevan and having sevadaars with them to do kirat and honest selfless service. But when they reach anti-gurmat views not according to guru ji's teachings then we have a problem. GGS is our guru but we can't see that. Many Sikhs don't see GGS as the Divine Truth taught by our Gurus. Gyani ji, most of the high jeevan hard-working Sikhs aren't the ones running the Panth at the moment. Sikhs in authority only have divine education. Sikhs should have worldly and divine education. Both make you strong as steel. We are in a bad state where Sikhs are running to the nearest dera for their problems or meditation camps or such gurus that say they have mystical powers where they cannot understand the GGS has the full package deal. Going to gurdwaras seeing Sikhs listening shabads, eat langar, and go back to their normal life. We are the ones who don't realize we are doing things wrong. As Sikhs, especially Amritdharis, we are silent helping out with the community and going on with our live without making a change around us. Unlike Khalsa Aid though who are doing a great job.  Hopefully that changes soon.


----------



## Luckysingh

The only real fact about what is and what isn't meditation, is the fact that it is ONLY done with the MIND.
Only your Mind is in contemplative simran if it is with that single-pointed thought of 'waheguru'.
True simran and meditation happens when 'waheguru' is at the forefront of all activity in the Mind.
It doesn't matter if you are doing some active seva, jap or listening/singing shabad/kirtan....


The problem is that people don't understand that it is the Mind that does simran and not anything else.
However, one may use any tool that he or she feels comfortable with and in my opinion that is never manmatt.

You can jap all you want until your tongue fatigues, or use a rosary, or stare into a candle flame or other object......(whatever tickles your fancy!)...But,if you are doing any of these and your Mind is busy running in all directions of thoughts, then I'm afraid there is no meditation/simran going on.

Nevertheless, if someone finds that using a rosary or sitting in front of Guru Nanak's (nanaksar)portrait, can help them maintain that  _'single-pointed focus''......_Then in my opinion that is totally acceptable..... Because the MIND is meditating and it doesn't matter what tool you use or seva activity you are doing.
What is seva of your hands ?
What is seva of your tongue ?

Other members enjoy their humble lifestyles of poking fun at my parroting... BUT my questions is... _''How do you know if I'm parroting or doing all my simran in my mind'' ??_

You can't really see inside me can you.. ?
Who knows more about my being 'antarghat' ??......me or someone else ?

Gyanji, is comparing Guru Nanak's teachings as whether it is the same old vedic rus(wine) in a new bottle ,or a newer rus in a newer or old bottle..!!
Problem is, that you are not _tasting _any rus at all, but just comparing the bottles.

How can you ever compare the contents without experiencing them ?
The MIND is inside the bottle, and whatever the parrot dancing on top of the bottle may be doing, it is not going to tell anyone what the MIND inside is doing...


----------



## Harry Haller

> The Gursikhs are here to bring Sikhs closer to GGS.



A bit like Brahmins in Hinduism!!


----------



## chazSingh

meditation, meditation, meditation...that age old topic...

i missed my amrit vela simran last night...mind was too overpowering..."go back to sleep, do it tomorow...you have a busy day at work, you need the extra sleep"..

and i failed...i went back to sleep...

now i'm sat at work with this heart tearing feeling of being so seperate to Waheguru, that i'm reading gurbani, partaking in this forum, and trying to do my work duties with a smile on my face and as truthfully and lovingly as i can..

but nothing....nothing beats that moment, during those magical ours of the night where that distance doesn't seem so much, and the thirst is quenched a little...these powerful moments where my doubts are removed and confirmation is made that no matter what happens in the day ahead...waheguru is right here with me...

teeth get dirty when we miss brushing them in the morning...
mind soon starts to waver again when contemplation on Waheguru Ji stops..


----------



## Tejwant Singh

*This is a request to ALL who are participating in this thread.*

Meditation or whatever name one calls it by is a personal endeavour. Therefore all participants should say that it is their personal experience which can never be  duplicated by anyone else and  it is NOT a blanket statement for all Sikhs because many do disagree with this stance. 
*They have no right to speak for any other Sikh.*.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh


----------



## Abneet

Tejwant Singh said:


> *This is a request to ALL who are participating in this thread.*
> 
> Meditation or whatever name one calls it by is a personal endeavour. Therefore all participants should say that it is their personal experience which can never be  duplicated by anyone else and  it is NOT a blanket statement for all Sikhs because many do disagree with this stance.
> *They have no right to speak for any other Sikh.*.
> 
> Thanks & regards
> 
> Tejwant Singh



It is part of Sikhi and in every meryada as I know of.


----------



## Tejwant Singh

Abneet said:


> It is part of Sikhi and in every meryada as I know of.



No it is not because everyone has a different meaning for it.  The proof is in my other post where it clearly shows that many words in Gurbani are used as meditation. So, common sense would dictate it does not have ONE UNIVERSAL meaning  in Sikhi as per SGGS, our only Guru. 

And secondly, please read my post again.*"it is their personal experience which can never be duplicated by anyone else".*

Tejwant Singh


----------



## kggr001

Tejwant Singh said:


> No it is not because everyone has a different meaning for it  The proof is in my other post where it clearly shows that many words in Gurbani are used as meditation. So, common sense would dictate it is not ONE UNIVERSAL thing in Sikhi.
> 
> And secondly, please read my post again.*"it is their personal experience which can never be duplicated by anyone else".*
> 
> Tejwant Singh



The Guru's and the Bhagats pretty much felt the same experience. The were literally and figuratively speaking one with the lord.


----------



## Tejwant Singh

kggr001 said:


> The Guru's and the Bhagats pretty much felt the same experience. The were literally and figuratively speaking one with the lord.



Please post  the proof of your claim from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru and also prove that their meanings of "meditation" are the same as your personal ones because as I showed you from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in my earlier post, the word Meditation is used for different words.

Sikhi is all about pragmatism and reasoning, not what we may feel to  be true.



Tejwant Singh


----------



## kggr001

Tejwant Singh said:


> Please post  the proof of your claim from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and also prove that their meaning of "meditation" is the same as your personal one.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tejwant Singh




I was talking about what guru's and the saints felt. I'm not saying that the way I meditate is the way they did. 

All I'm saying is that the felt the same experience. There love for the lord is great, they were willing to give up literally everything to find the lord.


----------



## Tejwant Singh

kggr001 said:


> I was talking about what guru's and the *saints* felt. I'm not saying that the way I meditate is the way they did.
> 
> All I'm saying is that the felt the same experience. There love for the lord is great, they were willing to give up literally everything to find the lord.



Once again , your statements are not valid if you do not have the proof because, once again, the word *Meditation* is used for multiple words by the ones who translated SGGS, our only Guru into English. 

Secondly, you are making the same mistake with the word *SAINT* as Abneet did. There is no such thing in Sikhi

How do you know anyone else's personal experience except your own?


----------



## kggr001

Tejwant Singh said:


> Once again , your statements are not valid if you do not have the proof.
> 
> Secondly, you are making the same mistake with the word *SAINT* as Abneet did. There is no such thing in Sikhi
> 
> How do you know anyone else's personal experience except your own?



My bad, I meant to use the word Bhagat.


----------



## Abneet

Tejwant Singh said:


> Once again , your statements are not valid if you do not have the proof because, once again, the word *Meditation* is used for multiple words by the ones who translated Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru into English.
> 
> Secondly, you are making the same mistake with the word *SAINT* as Abneet did. There is no such thing in Sikhi
> 
> How do you know anyone else's personal experience except your own?



I wonder where did you learn Gurmukhi and get your depth in Gurbani from? Who taught you?


----------



## Tejwant Singh

Abneet said:


> I wonder where did you learn Gurmukhi and get your depth in Gurbani from? Who taught you?




Is WONDER part of the question?

I learnt Gurmukhi at home and the guidance of Gurbani was through my parents and grandparents till I left India at the age of 15. The rest is all self taught by studying one page of sggs per week, via many many books, Teekas and  interaction on the great site like SPN.

No Sant, Baba or any other charlatan was involved. 

How about you? And you did not tell me that the Sant Babas you learn the Sikhi from according to your own claim, are they married with families as Guru Nanak urged us to do or are  they single and claim to abstain from sex?

Tejwant Singh


----------



## Abneet

Tejwant Singh said:


> Is WONDER part of the question?
> 
> I learnt Gurmukhi at home and the guidance of Gurbani was through my parents and grandparents till I left India at the age of 15. The rest is all self taught by studying one page of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji per week, via many many books, Teekas and  interaction on the great site like SPN.
> 
> No Sant, Baba or any other charlatan was involved.
> 
> How about you? And you did not tell me that the Sant Babas you learn the Sikhi from according to your own claim, are they married with families as Guru Nanak urged us to do or are  they single and claim to abstain from sex?
> 
> Tejwant Singh



Nope, haven't ever learned from a Sant but learned from my Dad who was taught by my grandpa who was taught in school during the 80's in Amritsar. Don't know which Sikh school my grandpa went too but he had nothing and the blind head ragi of Harmandar Sahib who died during the 1984 attacks took care of him and got him educated. So there was really no connection to any Sant or Baba. I read books too by often famous Sikh scholars and online I look here and there but keep careful tabs on what I'm reading.


----------



## chazSingh

maybe we should change the word *'meditation'* to *'seek within'* for Waheguru Ji...

that way everyone can 'seek within' in any manner they wish to...

the surgeon can create an incision and inspect his body..."where is this God that is within  "
the brain surgeon can spend his life scanning his brain to figure out the secrets that are yet untold
the yoga practitioner can jap the millions of mantra's out there and sit in a million postures...
Me personally i contemplate and envelope myself in Gurbani in the early hours...i close out the 9 doors and 'seek within' with the aid of this precious bani..
Others like Lucky Ji, and kggr ji also 'seek within'...and they may do it in a different way...

Whats important is waheguru ji's grace...the one who yearns for 'knowing the truth' gets pulled within with the sweet sound of his shabad

it's just great that there are so many yearning for this...that is something to be happy about..

God Bless


----------



## chazSingh

*PARROTING!!!*

i wish people would just stop parroting and expecting to realize the wondrous Guru!

this kind of thing makes me SICK TO THE STOMACH!

Amateurs! 

http://youtu.be/V0R_JFRTH04


----------



## kggr001

I just came across this line: "The naam remains, The holy saint remain, The Guru and the god remain."

The vid explains it as this "The name of god lives forever and so does devotees of god who attain salvation and mingle with god."

And I also came across this line: "God resides in each and every soul; the saints proclaim this as true"

I think the word *Saint* is used for devotees of the Lord.


I suggest everyone to check out this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaH4YymFbsY
It has very great explanation in English.

------------------------------------------------------------

And also how I know the love of the Guru's and Bhagats towards lord is by what they wrote it's really touching when I read it.

*Bhagat Sheikh Farid ji:* They alone are true, whose love for God is deep and heart-felt.
Those who have one thing in their heart, and something else in their mouth, are judged to be false. ((1))
Those who are imbued with love for the Lord, are delighted by His Vision.
Those who forget the Naam, the Name of the Lord, are a burden on the earth. ((1)(Pause))
Those whom the Lord attaches to the hem of His robe, are the true dervishes at His Door.
Blessed are the mothers who gave birth to them, and fruitful is their coming into the world. ((2))
O Lord, Sustainer and Cherisher, You are infinite, unfathomable and endless.
*Those who recognize the True Lord - I kiss their feet.* ((3))
I seek Your Protection - You are the Forgiving Lord.
Please, bless Shaykh Fareed with the bounty of Your meditative worship. ((4)(1)) 

*Bhagat Sheikh Farid ji:*  "O Raven, you have searched my skeleton, and eaten all my flesh. But please do not touch these eyes as I hope to behold my Beloved"

*9th Guru:* "If I could find wings for sale I would buy them with equal weight of my body" 
              "I would attach them to my body and seek out and find my friend"

*Bhagat Ravidas ji:*
"Lord, if you are sandalwood, I am water;
with the fragrance in all parts of my body.
Lord, if you are a cloud, I am a pea{censored};
looking for you like a chakora for the moon.
Lord, if you are a lamp, I am the wick (bAti);
with the light burning day and night.
Lord, if you are a pearl, I am the thread;
together like gold and suhaga.
Lord, you are the master and I servant;"

The Guru's and Bhagats were willing to give everything away to find the Lord. By reading all this we clearly can see that they lived in the Lord the were one with the Lord. 

And then there is the blind me who doesn't even try to find God. I feel so bad.


----------



## chazSingh

kggr001 said:


> I just came across this line: "The naam remains, The holy saint remain, The Guru and the god remain."
> 
> The vid explains it as this "The name of god lives forever and so does devotees of god who attain salvation and mingle with god."
> 
> And I also came across this line: "God resides in each and every soul; the saints proclaim this as true"
> 
> I think the word *Saint* is used for devotees of the lord.
> 
> 
> I suggest everyone to check out this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaH4YymFbsY
> 
> It has very great explanation in English.



Yes ji, and the greatest thing is...we ALL have the means and opportunity to mingle with God


----------



## kggr001

chazSingh said:


> Yes ji, and the greatest thing is...we ALL have the means and opportunity to mingle with God



Yes, and I must do it in this life, in the next lifes I don't even know if I ever will think about the lord, I've no control over the next life however I've in this life.

Bhagat Kabir ji: "The mother thinks that her son is growing up; she does not understand that, day by day, his life is diminishing. Calling him, "Mine, mine", she fondles him lovingly, while the Messenger of Death looks on and laughs. ""

It's not that I'm afraid to die, I'm afraid that if I don't find the lord this life, I've wasted my life.


----------



## Harry Haller

chazSingh said:


> *PARROTING!!!*
> 
> i wish people would just stop parroting and expecting to realize the wondrous Guru!
> 
> this kind of thing makes me SICK TO THE STOMACH!
> 
> Amateurs!
> 
> http://youtu.be/V0R_JFRTH04


----------



## Canada

I learned about Zen Buddhism for a few years before finding Sikhi; and I seem to still take their approach to 'meditation'. 
This involves being in a state of meditation (zazen) while sitting, walking, washing the dishes, whatever it may be; which is of course in line with the teachings of Sikhi to be with Waheguru at all times, always praising his name. 

To sit down at a certain time on certain days and meditate on the naam is good, but I don't see it as enough.


----------



## chazSingh

kggr001 said:


> Yes, and I must do it in this life, in the next lifes I don't even know if I ever will think about the lord, I've no control over the next life however I've in this life.
> 
> Bhagat Kabir ji: "The mother thinks that her son is growing up; she does not understand that, day by day, his life is diminishing. Calling him, "Mine, mine", she fondles him lovingly, while the Messenger of Death looks on and laughs. ""
> 
> It's not that I'm afraid to die, I'm afraid that if I don't find the lord this life, I've wasted my life.



_Remembering Him in meditation, the fear of Death departs

_i believe the above quotation to be 100% an actual occurance


----------



## japjisahib04

kggr001 said:


> Bhagat Kabir ji: "The mother thinks that her son is growing up; she does not understand that, day by day, his life is diminishing. Calling him, "Mine, mine", she fondles him lovingly, while the Messenger of Death looks on and laughs. ""
> 
> It's not that I'm afraid to die, I'm afraid that if I don't find the lord this life, I've wasted my life.


By literal interpretation we have buried the divine essence of the panktee.  This is how we waste and dump the gurbani. Let us understand what is divine message behind above pankti. 

While reflecting upon the rahao, I realized topic of the sabd is not passing general information but impact of vices on our body. Over here the message is that 'ਜਨਨੀ' the source of evil conspiracies, feels pride that she is feeding and upbringing a child (manh to act as per her commands) growing him big, but does not realizes the impact of every evil action (anger etc) day by day on our body thus advising us to cut that source and fill it with godly acts.


----------



## Harry Haller

> This involves being in a state of meditation (zazen) while sitting, walking, washing the dishes, whatever it may be;



a bit like being on drugs then


----------



## Sherdil

What does it take to know the truth? The truth is written in gurbani.  Once we understand gurbani, we come to know the truth isn't it? I don't  see why this truth has to vibrate within every cell of the body, like  some have described (on other threads). If I study acetylcholinesterase  inhibitors, I come to learn the truth about these drugs. I don't have to  meditate upon it. 

When I do something kind for someone, from  the bottom of my heart, I find that I am not afflicted by any of the 5  thieves in that moment. If such kind gestures are repeated, they become a  part of your character. You are not driven by lust, anger, greed,  attachment, or ego. You are simply driven by a desire to do seva and  ease the suffering of others. If everyone treated each other with  kindness and respect, we could bring about Satyug. 

These two  aspects make up "gyaan" and "dhiaan" (wisdom and attention). Gyaan comes  from gurbani and dhiaan is toward the service of creation. 

I  feel that Guru ji placed truthful action above all else. This is why  Guru ji criticized the Nath Yogis. Even though they spent their time in  meditation, they did nothing to uplift humanity. Accordingly, gurbani makes reference to Chitr and Gupt, and Dharam Raj. Chitr and Gupt are the deities that keep track of the actions of mortals. Dharam Raj is the judge that decides the mortal's fate (figurative references).  Gurbani also mentions that actions done repetitively are engraved on the soul.

The slogan of the Khalsa under Banda Singh Bahadur's leadership was "Degh Tegh Fateh" (victory of the kettle and the sword). This is also why we wear the kirpan. There are so many things in our philosophy that demonstrate we are a faith based around righteous action above all else.


----------



## Abneet

Sherdil said:


> What does it take to know the truth? The truth is written in gurbani.  Once we understand gurbani, we come to know the truth isn't it? I don't  see why this truth has to vibrate within every cell of the body, like  some have described (on other threads). If I study acetylcholinesterase  inhibitors, I come to learn the truth about these drugs. I don't have to  meditate upon it.
> 
> When I do something kind for someone, from  the bottom of my heart, I find that I am not afflicted by any of the 5  thieves in that moment. If such kind gestures are repeated, they become a  part of your character. You are not driven by lust, anger, greed,  attachment, or ego. You are simply driven by a desire to do seva and  ease the suffering of others. If everyone treated each other with  kindness and respect, we could bring about Satyug.
> 
> These two  aspects make up "gyaan" and "dhiaan" (wisdom and attention). Gyaan comes  from gurbani and dhiaan is toward the service of creation.
> 
> I  feel that Guru ji placed truthful action above all else. This is why  Guru ji criticized the Nath Yogis. Even though they spent their time in  meditation, they did nothing to uplift humanity. Accordingly, gurbani makes reference to Chitr and Gupt, and Dharam Raj. Chitr and Gupt are the deities that keep track of the actions of mortals. Dharam Raj is the judge that decides the mortal's fate (figurative references).  Gurbani also mentions that actions done repetitively are engraved on the soul.
> 
> The slogan of the Khalsa under Banda Singh Bahadur's leadership was "Degh Tegh Fateh" (victory of the kettle and the sword). This is also why we wear the kirpan. There are so many things in our philosophy that demonstrate we are a faith based around righteous action above all else.



If everyone treated with respect and kindness to all that wouldn't be enough to bring Satyug. You can be kind and be corrupt still.....


----------



## kggr001

harry haller said:


> a bit like being on drugs then



I rather take the drug of the lord so I be one with him forever, then being blind my whole life.
The thing you call taking drug, I call that living in the truth.

Bring me that drug and I'll buy it


----------



## Harry Haller

what is a satyug?


----------



## Harry Haller

kggr001 said:


> I rather take the drug of the lord so I be one with him forever, then being blind my whole life.
> The thing you call taking drug, I call that living in the truth.
> 
> Bring me that drug and I'll buy it



you do not have to buy it, just embrace Buddhism instead of picking and mixing, for the record, the subject in question is zazen meditation

the wikki entry does not sound particularly in line with Sikhi to me.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazen


----------



## kggr001

harry haller said:


> you do not have to buy it, just embrace Buddhism instead of picking and mixing, for the record, the subject in question is zazen meditation
> 
> the wikki entry does not sound particularly in line with Sikhi to me.....
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazen



If Zazen Meditation makes Canada ji feel connected to god all the time then thats a great thing.
Drug of the lord is always the best


----------



## Harry Haller

kggr001 said:


> If that makes Canada ji feel connected to god all the time by doing Zazen then thats a great thing.
> Drug of the lord is always the best



I take it your point is that anyone can do anything they feel as long as there is a supposed  connection to god, and still consider themselves a Sikh, does that include Rastafarians?

The Gurus counselled against many practices that they felt were worthless, pointless, ritualistic., 

I think addiction to anything is not healthy, even to the lord. What are your thoughts?


----------



## kggr001

harry haller said:


> I take it your point is that anyone can do anything they feel as long as there is a connection to god?
> 
> The Gurus counselled against many practices that they felt were worthless, pointless, ritualistic.,
> 
> I think addiction to anything is not healthy, even to the lord. What are your thoughts?



It depends on the person  if something works for him/her then in my eyes it's ok to follow that.

Addiction to lord is the greatest thing there is. addiction comes from realizing the lord. There is nothing in this universe sweeter then the lord name. Check the quotes in the some previous post I posted. The Guru's and Bhagats were willing to give everything away to find there friend. And then there is me who doesn't even try to make an effort 

In Sikhi the goal is to be one with the lord, you live in the lord, the lord resides in your heart. We just have to recognize him once we do that you won't find anything more sweet then him. I know it's easier said then done but this is our chance and we should take it. Lord gave us an wonderful opportunity.


----------



## Harry Haller

> My thought are addiction to lord is the greatest thing there is



My thoughts are that addiction to god is how zealots and fanatics are born, the relationship with god should be healthy and balanced, not addictive, this is unhealthy and unbalanced, especially in Sikhism, where we are expected to live real lives in the real world, not get through life in some sort of doped up trance looking for signs from the almighty. I think such a state is very dangerous indeed. 



> addiction comes from realizing the lord



I say the opposite, freedom comes from realising the lord



> There is nothing in this universe sweeter then the lord name.



this does not even make sense, it sounds flowery and cute, but can you explain what you actually mean, in plain Sikh terms?



> In Sikhi the goal is to be one with the lord



I already am one with the lord, the lord is already in me, can you explain exactly what you mean to be at one with the lord? are we talking doped up rejection of the real world again? explain this to me so I understand



> you live in the lord the lord resides in your heart. We just have to recognize him once we do that you won't find anything more sweet then him.



him? who his him? god, the lord, is not an Abrahamic deity in Sikhism, who is this him? how do we recognise him? will he wear a red rose in his lapel?


----------



## Harry Haller

> It depends on the person if something works for him/her then in my eyes it's ok to follow that.



Given the current infiltration in Sikhism of various practices from other religions that are in effect diluting Sikhism, how do you reconcile this when other Sikhs follow this free for all attitude?


----------



## kggr001

harry haller said:


> My thoughts are that addiction to god is how zealots and fanatics are born, the relationship with god should be healthy and balanced, not addictive, this is unhealthy and unbalanced, especially in Sikhism, where we are expected to live real lives in the real world, not get through life in some sort of doped up trance looking for signs from the almighty. I think such a state is very dangerous indeed.
> 
> I say the opposite, freedom comes from realising the lord



It's not very dangerous it's the most Beautiful state there is that I know of.

The fanatics are not free from the 5 thieves. Some of them even go so far that they kill out the name of god, while there holy book tells them thats forbidden. Usually there is one preacher who preaches few things to them and they see that as the absolute truth. 

However meditation can't be compared with his, since it does the opposite.



harry haller said:


> this does not even make sense, it sounds flowery and cute, but can you explain what you actually mean, in plain Sikh terms?



If you want Sikh term I suggest you to read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. And you will understand about sweet the guru's were talking about. BTW often there is used the word Amrit, don't take it literally as water. Try to understand what they are saying.



harry haller said:


> I already am one with the lord, the lord is already in me, can you explain exactly what you mean to be at one with the lord? are we talking doped up rejection of the real world again? explain this to me so I understand



One with the lord is detached from all worldy attachements fully aware of the lords you live in the lord your one with him, we are already living in his hukam but one also must learn to accept the hukam.




harry haller said:


> him? who his him? god, the lord, is not an Abrahamic deity in Sikhism, who is this him? how do we recognise him? will he wear a red rose in his lapel?



The same way Guru's and Bhagats reconized him again I suggest you to read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji they explain very well how they reconized him. So many times that I can't even keep up with.


----------



## kggr001

harry haller said:


> Given the current infiltration in Sikhism of various practices from other religions that are in effect diluting Sikhism, how do you reconcile this when other Sikhs follow this free for all attitude?



If something works for someone then you are who are you to tell what one should do and what one shouldn't do.

Only the one with who knows the absolute truth can do that, and who is that?

For e.g. some people do Ramadan according to Sikhism there is no need. But what if Ramadan works for someone and his evils go away by that. Then I don't see why he shouldn't do it.


----------



## Harry Haller

> If you want Sikh term I suggest you to read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. And you will understand about sweet the guru's were talking about.





> The same way Guru's and Bhagats reconized him again I suggest you to read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji they explain very well how they reconized him.



but I am asking you, are you unable to provide an answer to the questions? 

O





> one with the lord is detached from all worldy attachements



how does one do this? do you mean one should not get married, or get a job?


----------



## Harry Haller

kggr001 said:


> If something works for someone then you are who are you to tell what one should do and what one shouldn't do.
> 
> Only the one with who knows the absolute truth can do that, and who is that?



Well the one who knows the absolute truth is the SGGS, and I am afraid it clearly does tell you what one should do and shouldn't do


----------



## kggr001

harry haller said:


> but I am asking you, are you unable to provide an answer to the questions?



Because I'm not gonna bother, sorry brother that I'm saying that but it's good to open Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and read it. Because Guru's are talking over and over and over about the same thing. If you really want me to look it up for you I can do it in the morning it's 01:30 am.




harry haller said:


> how does one do this? do you mean one should not get married, or get a job?



This is a very good question, the thing is that you should realize that this world is materialistic and it will end one that. Only the lord will remain?

Does that mean you don't have to do anything thats related wordly?

No i don't believe that. As a human we have to follow our Dharma(religion) which also helps us to perfect our Karma thats what is so great about having a Dharma for some it also can help also improve self discipline.


----------



## kggr001

harry haller said:


> Well the one who knows the absolute truth is the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and I am afraid it clearly does tell you what one should do and shouldn't do



Very well said 
Everyone should try to follow there Dharma whatever someone is a muslim, hundu, christian or something else.

If your a muslim be a good muslim, if your a hindu be a good hindu.


----------



## Harry Haller

> Because I'm not gonna bother



no problem



> If you really want me to look it up for you I can do it in the morning it's 01:30 am.



Yes, its late, your addiction must be wearing off lol



> If your a muslim be a good muslim, if your a hindu be a good hindu.




and if your a Sikh, take practices from all the other religions and go round in circles?


----------



## kggr001

harry haller said:


> no problem
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, its late, your addiction must be wearing off lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and if your a Sikh, take practices from all the other religions and go round in circles?



I wish that I was addictive I forget the lord alot 
If I'm being honest I'm using lord as toy, I'm a very bad person.

I've feel really bad when I think about what the Guru's were willing to do to find god, and then there is me who always think that I know the best.

Also Harry Haller ji, I don't want to be an *** by not giving what you say. I will give you tommarrow the quotes from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 

Good Night ji.


----------



## Tejwant Singh

harry haller said:


> a bit like being on drugs then



MaryJane Incense spreading its perfume in the every corner of the dwelling. Praise the Creator of ALL things.


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Gurmatt


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Gurmatt is what we are supposed to follow..so there is NO PROVISION for..what works for ???? what doesnt work for ??? etc etc..there is ONLY GURMATT. Period. Gurmatt is in the SGGS because its GURU. Period.

Lets not be fooled by "ROOP" either..see this..such a huge mismatch between ROOP and Language..whewwwwwwwwwwwwwww.  The Picture is REAL, the profile is REAL and the language used is REAL.


----------



## harmanpreet singh

kggr001 said:


> It's not very dangerous it's the most Beautiful state there is that I know of.
> 
> The fanatics are not free from the 5 thieves. Some of them even go so far that they kill out the name of god, while there holy book tells them thats forbidden. Usually there is one preacher who preaches few things to them and they see that as the absolute truth.
> 
> However meditation can't be compared with his, since it does the opposite.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want Sikh term I suggest you to read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. And you will understand about sweet the guru's were talking about. BTW often there is used the word Amrit, don't take it literally as water. Try to understand what they are saying.
> 
> 
> 
> One with the lord is detached from all worldy attachements fully aware of the lords you live in the lord your one with him, we are already living in his hukam but one also must learn to accept the hukam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The same way Guru's and Bhagats reconized him again I suggest you to read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji they explain very well how they reconized him. So many times that I can't even keep up with.




that's a lovely post from a teen ! Meditation/Dhyaan/Simran/Remembrance is central to Sikhi.

i jus wanna suggest you from my experience  that never argue with someone spiritually dead , its highly probable that you too might feel that dryness/emptiness .


a sweet  shabad related to this ,i know you will enjoy ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPa-kA3Y-wM


----------



## Luckysingh

harmanpreet singh said:


> a sweet shabad related to this ,i know you will enjoy ..
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPa-kA3Y-wM


 
Beautiful shabad by bhai Harjinder singh ji


----------



## Harry Haller

harmanpreet singh said:


> that's a lovely post from a teen ! Meditation/Dhyaan/Simran/Remembrance is central to Sikhi.
> 
> i jus wanna suggest you from my experience  that never argue with someone spiritually dead , its highly probable that you too might feel that dryness/emptiness .
> 
> 
> a sweet  shabad related to this ,i know you will enjoy ..
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPa-kA3Y-wM



the subject is meditation in Sikhism, the post relates to debate regarding Zazen meditation, my point is that such is not part of Sikhsim, 



> During zazen, breathe through your nose and keep your mouth closed. (If you have a cold, or some kind of a nasal blockage, its okay to breathe through your mouth.) The tongue is pressed lightly against the upper palate—swallow once, to create a seal and reduce the need to salivate and swallow. The eyes are kept lowered, with your gaze resting on the ground about two or three feet in front of you. Your eyes will be mostly covered by your eyelids, which eliminates the necessity to blink repeatedly. The chin is slightly tucked in. Although zazen looks very disciplined, the muscles should be soft. There should be no tension in the body. It doesn’t take strength to keep the body straight. The nose is centered in line with the navel, the upper torso leaning neither forward nor back.
> 
> The hands are folded in the cosmic mudra. The dominant hand is held palm up holding the other hand, also palm up, so that the knuckles of both hands overlap. If you’re right-handed, your right hand is holding the left hand; if you’re left-handed, your left hand is holding the right hand. The thumbs are lightly touching, thus the hands form an oval, which can rest on the upturned soles of your feet if you’re sitting full lotus. If you’re sitting Burmese, the mudra can rest on your thighs. The cosmic mudra tends to turn your attention inward.



http://zmm.mro.org/teachings/meditation-instructions/

I do not think I am spiritually dead, perhaps Luckyji or Chazji could comment on the above, do you regard Zazan as compatible within Sikhism?


----------



## kggr001

harry haller said:


> the subject is meditation in Sikhism, the post relates to debate regarding Zazen meditation, my point is that such is not part of Sikhsim,
> 
> 
> 
> http://zmm.mro.org/teachings/meditation-instructions/
> 
> I do not think I am spiritually dead, perhaps Luckyji or Chazji could comment on the above, do you regard Zazan as compatible within Sikhism?



Harry Haller ji, like Lucky ji in some previous post gave us an wonderful example, that we won't know how the amrit taste without opening the bottle.

Same goes for Zazen Meditation, how can we say it's works or it doesn't work without having it ever tried(Opened the Bottle)?

If that works for Canada ji then thats great. Sikhism isn't there to tell you what practice is haram and what practice is halal. The only thing haram in us are 5 thieves which blind us to see the lord. The five thieves paint an image in our mind we start living in that image and believe that it is the absolute truth. 

I don't think someone would say "Hey but you feel connected with god by doing Zazen meditation which very anti Sikhi, so you don't have any experience about god" 

Harry Ji there are different roads which lead to Rome. If there is a way that seems work for someone then who are we to complain. I know that this is an Sikhi forum however tips from outside Sikhi also can help, we should try to open the bottle and taste the amrit in it, we should stop judging the bottle before even having tasted its content.

The love for god. So powerful and yet so beautiful.  Reading about how Guru's and Bhagats loved the lord and what they are were willing to give away is very heartwarming.

"O Raven, you have searched my skeleton, and eaten all my flesh. But please do not touch these eyes as I hope to behold my Beloved. (91) (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1382)" 

Oh, lord please help me, the Raven eat all my flesh and including my eyes, oh lord have mercy on this fool, let me who isn't worth to be called your servant atleast be the dust of your wonderful feets.  My lord I live in utter darkness oh lord please guide me. There is nothing more I wish, and ever will ask. Oh my dear father I'm like a fish who keeps getting his Fins eaten and can't cross the ocean. And your so wonderful you are giving me each time new wonderful Fins but I'm stupid fool that gets your given Fins eaten everytime.


----------



## kggr001

harmanpreet singh said:


> a sweet  shabad related to this ,i know you will enjoy ..
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPa-kA3Y-wM



Thank you ji, it's indeed very touching Shabad, the lord is so great that even words fall short


----------



## kggr001

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Gurmatt is what we are supposed to follow..so there is NO PROVISION for..what works for ???? what doesnt work for ??? etc etc..there is ONLY GURMATT. Period. Gurmatt is in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji because its GURU. Period.
> 
> Lets not be fooled by "ROOP" either..see this..such a huge mismatch between ROOP and Language..whewwwwwwwwwwwwwww.  The Picture is REAL, the profile is REAL and the language used is REAL.



Gyani ji what does that person say in the picture?


----------



## arshi

Harmanpreet Singh ji wrote (Re: kggr001):


> that's a lovely post from a teen ! Meditation/Dhyaan/Simran/Remembrance is central to Sikhi.


 
I can't believe kggr001 is only 19, *almost quarter my age*, and such maturity and passion for Sikhi - just amazing. The same applies to Abneet Singh who, from one of his posts, I gather is still in school/college. At their age I was more interested in Cinema, Punjabi songs, film songs, ghazals, qwaallies amongst other things. *I am out of these now, thanks to Sri Guru Granth Sahib JI.* However, Sangeet, in the form of kirtan, is still my passion, and musical notes merged with Gurbani is pure bliss. Guru's message translated into action is the best way forward for any Sikh.

Kggr001 and Abneet Singh jios, you have my best wishes on your path of Sikhi and may you scale greater heights of spiritual bliss and a fulfilling life.

Rajinder Singh 'Arshi'


----------



## chazSingh

harry haller said:


> I do not think I am spiritually dead, perhaps Luckyji or Chazji could comment on the above, do you regard Zazan as compatible within Sikhism?



I'm not sure my friend..will need to research into this stuff...

i think the world labels their spiritual practice with many names...different types of yogas, meditations, postures or whatever...sometimes the exact same method can have different names...and people swear by their named method..

but i think behind the names, the methods, the same thing is at work...
that same thing* no one really understands (God)* and they then come out (Ego) to the public and say "my method works....this is the way"...

but what they don;t maybe realize is, that chuck all the methods out the window, and what they are all probably doing is* yearning for God in quite an intense way*...and it is that yearning and love that actually made their spiritual progress...

yes i meditate on the gurmanter...and other shabads like Satnaam, or full shabads in Gurbani...

would i change this to anything else...no..
because when something is working wonders...you keep things simple and just continue with that...maybe its the method...maybe it;s nothing to do with the method...or maybe it has a little to do with the method...i just don;t know...but it;s working  and thats good enough for me...

gurbani doesn't mention the benefits of body building or trying various types of exercises...so if i do some Zumba classes and claim it helps with my Simran...is that against sikhi?

i think various things can help in ones overall progression...i think a Sikh should look after His/Her body, with the aim to be of benefit to society and to use the body and all its treasure to connect back with the source...

BUT as a *sikh*, *Gurbani* is my link from the Guru Ji's back to the ultimate source...as long as i know that, acknowledge it, and act upon it, the other things i may indulge in will hopefully not pull me off the path.

not sure if any of the above makes any sense...just rambling on..ignore if i wondered into absolute confusion...


----------



## Sherdil

Hey just out of curiosity, are any of you guys Namdharis? That would explain a lot, and help me understand where you guys are coming from.


----------



## kggr001

chazSingh said:


> I'm not sure my friend..will need to research into this stuff...
> 
> i think the world labels their spiritual practice with many names...different types of yogas, meditations, postures or whatever...sometimes the exact same method can have different names...and people swear by their named method..
> 
> but i think behind the names, the methods, the same thing is at work...
> that same thing* no one really understands (God)* and they then come out (Ego) to the public and say "my method works....this is the way"...
> 
> but what they don;t maybe realize is, that chuck all the methods out the window, and what they are all probably doing is* yearning for God in quite an intense way*...and it is that yearning and love that actually made their spiritual progress...
> 
> yes i meditate on the gurmanter...and other shabads like Satnaam, or full shabads in Gurbani...
> 
> would i change this to anything else...no..
> because when something is working wonders...you keep things simple and just continue with that...maybe its the method...maybe it;s nothing to do with the method...or maybe it has a little to do with the method...i just don;t know...but it;s working  and thats good enough for me...
> 
> gurbani doesn't mention the benefits of body building or trying various types of exercises...so if i do some Zumba classes and claim it helps with my Simran...is that against sikhi?
> 
> i think various things can help in ones overall progression...i think a Sikh should look after His/Her body, with the aim to be of benefit to society and to use the body and all its treasure to connect back with the source...
> 
> BUT as a *sikh*, *Gurbani* is my link from the Guru Ji's back to the ultimate source...as long as i know that, acknowledge it, and act upon it, the other things i may indulge in will hopefully not pull me off the path.
> 
> not sure if any of the above makes any sense...just rambling on..ignore if i wondered into absolute confusion...



Very nice post ji


----------



## chazSingh

Sherdil said:


> Hey just out of curiosity, are any of you guys Namdharis? That would explain a lot, and help me understand where you guys are coming from.



just a Simple Seeker of the Universal Truth (sikh)

Rumbling around through falsehood at the moment...


----------



## Tejwant Singh

Chaz Singh writes:



> but i think behind the names, the methods, the same thing is at work...
> that same thing no one really understands (God) and they then come out (Ego) to the public and say "my method works....this is the way"...
> 
> but what they don;t maybe realize is, that chuck all the methods out the window, and what they are all probably doing is yearning for God in quite an intense way...and it is that yearning and love that actually made their spiritual progress...



Could you please quote the full Shabads from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with your own understanding justifying your claims above?

Or are your claims  from some other resources? If they are please quote them.

Thanks


Tejwant Singh


----------



## chazSingh

Tejwant Singh said:


> Chaz Singh writes:
> 
> 
> 
> Could you please quote the full Shabads from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with your own understanding justifying your claims above?
> 
> Or are your claims are from some other resources? If they are please quote them.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Tejwant Singh



Tejwant Ji,

Harry Ji asked me what my thoughts were....nothing more...

never the less i will try to seek some pointers from Gurbani and post ji..

God Bless


----------



## Tejwant Singh

chazSingh said:


> Tejwant Ji,
> 
> Harry Ji asked me what my thoughts were....nothing more...
> 
> never the less i will try to seek some pointers from Gurbani and post ji..
> 
> God Bless



Chaz Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

As they are your thoughts and yourself being a Sikh, these thoughts about Sikhi values should relate to the teachings of our Gurus in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru.

What do you think?

Regards

Tejwant Singh


----------



## chazSingh

Tejwant Singh said:


> Chaz Singh ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> As they are your thoughts and yourself being a Sikh, these thoughts related to Sikhi should relate to the teachings of our Gurus in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Tejwant Singh



yes ji, of course...

but they still remain my thoughts don't they?

if i claim them to be anything other than that, then i am claiming to know the deepest level of Gian from *first hand experience* of Gurbani within my very being

i would be a fool to claim that... 

but of course i can try to give you some quotes based on my limited understanding, so i will at least try. Will be in the morning now...


----------



## kggr001

Tejwant Singh said:


> Chaz Singh writes:
> 
> 
> 
> chazSingh said:
> 
> 
> 
> but i think behind the names, the methods, the same thing is at work...
> that same thing* no one really understands (God)* and they then come out (Ego) to the public and say "my method works....this is the way"...
> 
> but what they don;t maybe realize is, that chuck all the methods out the window, and what they are all probably doing is* yearning for God in quite an intense way*...and it is that yearning and love that actually made their spiritual progress...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you please quote the full Shabads from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with your own understanding justifying your claims above?
> 
> Or are your claims  from some other resources? If they are please quote them.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Tejwant Singh
Click to expand...



Tejwant ji, what do you want to know about ChazSingh ji's post, it's kinda unclear since it's a large quote.
Do you want to know about love and yearning or something else that ChazSingh ji stated, sorry it's really unclear to me


----------



## Tejwant Singh

chazSingh said:


> yes ji, of course...
> 
> but they still remain my thoughts don't they?
> 
> if i claim them to be anything other than that, then i am claiming to know the deepest level of Gian from *first hand experience* of Gurbani within my very being
> 
> i would be a fool to claim that...
> 
> but of course i can try to give you some quotes based on my limited understanding, so i will at least try. Will be in the morning now...



Chaz Singh ji,

That is not the point. I am just seeking the Sikhi point of view in your thoughts from you because as mentioned earlier, this thread is related to Sikhi.

I will wait for them to educate myself.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh


----------



## Tejwant Singh

kggr001 said:


> Tejwant ji, what do you want to know about ChazSingh ji's post, it's kinda unclear since it's a large quote.
> Do you want to know about love and yearning or something else that ChazSingh ji stated, sorry it's really unclear to me



kggr001 ji,

Guru Fateh.

Please let Chaz Singh handle this as they are his posts and my questions about them are directed to him. He did say he would respond about my queries tomorrow. Let's wait for them.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh


----------



## Luckysingh

harry haller said:


> I do not think I am spiritually dead, perhaps Luckyji or Chazji could comment on the above, do you regard Zazan as compatible within Sikhism?


 

Don't have too much knowledge about this zen meditation. But as long as it can help maintain that _'One-pointedness'_ -steady state of mind, then I wouldn't condemn it.

It doesn't matter if you sit or stand, cross your legs or not, breath slowly or rapicdly, wear full bana or not...etc..... What matters is that you can maintain that degree of _single-pointed _focus in Mind and a Centred consciousness.


----------



## Tejwant Singh

Luckysingh said:


> Don't have too much knowledge about this zen meditation. But as long as it can help maintain that _'One-pointedness'_ -steady state of mind, then I wouldn't condemn it.
> 
> It doesn't matter if you sit or stand, cross your legs or not, breath slowly or rapicdly, wear full bana or not...etc..... What matters is that your Mind can maintain that degree of _single-pointed _focus in Mind and centred consciousness.



Lucky ji,

Guru Fateh,

Pardon my ignorance, but I am a bit confused by what you are trying to say above. No one is condemning anything but we are trying to differentiate the different practices among many religions and they can not be all lumped up together otherwise there would not be any need for different schools of thought.

Let's take your argument on its face value for a second or two. If what you are saying is to be true, then there would not have been any need for our Sikh Gurus and other Sikhs to give their lives so justice could be served to all. Then we would not need Sikhi and would not have the need to call ourselves Sikhs- students, learners, seekers.

Your stance seems to be the same as of the Corn lobby in the US who wants to name Corn Syrup as Corn Sugar so the public would not know the difference.

Of course many religions teach similar things but Sikhi is unique in many ways. 

No Hell, No Heaven, No Reincarnation, No absurd rituals like Fasting, Hajj, Pilgrimages, Dips in holy waters to purify oneself with and last but not the least, no Clergy which means each of us is The Pope/Popa of Sikhi.

Tejwant Singh


----------



## kggr001

Tejwant Singh said:


> Lucky ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh,
> 
> Pardon my ignorance, but I am a bit confused by what you are trying to say above. No one is condemning anything but we are trying to differentiate the different practices among many religions and they can not be all lumped up together otherwise there would not be any need for different schools of thought.
> 
> Let's take your argument on its face values for a second or two. If what you are saying is to be true, then there would not have been any need for our Sikh Gurus and other Sikhs to give their lives so justice could be served to all. Then we would not need Sikhi and would not have the need to call ourselves Sikhs- students, learners, seekers.
> 
> Your stance seems to be the same as of the Corn lobby in the US who wants to name Corn Syrup as Corn Sugar so the public would not know the difference.
> 
> Of course many religions teach similar things but Sikhi is unique in many ways.
> 
> No Hell, No Heaven, No Reincarnation, No absurd rituals like Fasting, Hajj, Pilgrimages, Dips in holy waters to purify oneself with and last but not the least, no Clergy which means each of us is The Pope/Popa of Sikhi.
> 
> Tejwant Singh



Sikhi does talk about reincarnation. Thats undeniable. Guru's even warn us so many time.
Also it doesn't matter what practice one followes the goal is to be one with the lord. 

The lords resides in everyone, however that person heart doesn't reside with god. Guru's were willing to give everything away to find there friend.


----------



## Tejwant Singh

kggr001 said:


> Sikhi does talk about reincarnation.




Yes, Sikhi does talk about reincarnation in many Shabads because of the deeply held beliefs of this in Hinduism but in no Shabad does it claim it to be a Sikhi trait/belief but rather to the contrary.

Please post the whole Shabad with your own understanding where you think Sikhi believes in reincarnation.

You may also find many threads on the subject of reincarnation on SPN to help you out with.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh


----------



## Abneet

Tejwant Singh said:


> Yes, Sikhi does talk about reincarnation in many Shabads because of the deeply held beliefs of this in Hinduism but in no Shabad does it claim it to be a Sikhi trait/belief but rather to the contrary.
> 
> Please post the whole Shabad with your own understanding where you think Sikhi believes in reincarnation.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tejwant Singh



Just curious, If Sikhi doesn't believe in reincarnation then what do we believe happens to us afterlife...?


----------



## kggr001

Tejwant Singh said:


> Yes, Sikhi does talk about reincarnation in many Shabads because of the deeply held beliefs of this in Hinduism but in no Shabad does it claim it to be a Sikhi trait/belief but rather to the contrary.
> 
> Please post the whole Shabad with your own understanding where you think Sikhi believes in reincarnation.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tejwant Singh




ਨਾਨਕ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਪਰਮ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥੪॥੪੩॥੫੪॥ नानक ता की परम गति होइ ॥४॥४३॥५४॥ Nānak ṯā kī param gaṯ ho▫e. ||4||43||54|| O Nanak, they attain the supreme status. ||4||43||54||
ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ रामकली महला ५ ॥ Rāmkalī mėhlā 5. Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:
ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋ ਥੀਆ ॥ जो तिसु भावै सो थीआ ॥ Jo ṯis bẖāvai so thī▫ā. Whatever pleases Him happens.
ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਸਰਣਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਆਨ ਬੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ सदा सदा हरि की सरणाई प्रभ बिनु नाही आन बीआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Saḏā saḏā har kī sarṇā▫ī parabẖ bin nāhī ān bī▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o. Forever and ever, I seek the Sanctuary of the Lord. There is none other than God. ||1||Pause||
ਪੁਤੁ ਕਲਤ੍ਰੁ ਲਖਿਮੀ ਦੀਸੈ ਇਨ ਮਹਿ ਕਿਛੂ ਨ ਸੰਗਿ ਲੀਆ ॥ पुतु कलत्रु लखिमी दीसै इन महि किछू न संगि लीआ ॥ Puṯ kalaṯar lakẖimī ḏīsai in mėh kicẖẖū na sang lī▫ā. You look upon your children, spouse and wealth; none of these will go along with you.
ਬਿਖੈ ਠਗਉਰੀ ਖਾਇ ਭੁਲਾਨਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਗਇਆ ॥੧॥ बिखै ठगउरी खाइ भुलाना माइआ मंदरु तिआगि गइआ ॥१॥ Bikẖai ṯẖag▫urī kẖā▫e bẖulānā mā▫i▫ā manḏar ṯi▫āg ga▫i▫ā. ||1|| Eating the poisonous potion, you have gone astray. You will have to go, and leave Maya and your mansions. ||1||
ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਵਿਗੂਤਾ ਗਰਭ ਜੋਨਿ ਮਹਿ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਪਇਆ ॥ निंदा करि करि बहुतु विगूता गरभ जोनि महि किरति पइआ ॥ Ninḏā kar kar bahuṯ vigūṯā garabẖ jon mėh kiraṯ pa▫i▫ā. Slandering others, you are totally ruined; because of your past actions, you shall be consigned to the womb of reincarnation.
ਪੁਰਬ ਕਮਾਣੇ ਛੋਡਹਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਮਦੂਤਿ ਗ੍ਰਾਸਿਓ ਮਹਾ ਭਇਆ ॥੨॥ पुरब कमाणे छोडहि नाही जमदूति ग्रासिओ महा भइआ ॥२॥ Purab kamāṇe cẖẖodėh nāhī jamḏūṯ garāsi▫o mahā bẖa▫i▫ā. ||2|| Your past actions will not just go away; the most horrible Messenger of Death shall seize you. ||2||
ਬੋਲੈ ਝੂਠੁ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਅਵਰਾ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਨ ਬੂਝੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਹਇਆ ॥ बोलै झूठु कमावै अवरा त्रिसन न बूझै बहुतु हइआ ॥ Bolai jẖūṯẖ kamāvai avrā ṯarisan na būjẖai bahuṯ ha▫i▫ā. You tell lies, and do not practice what you preach. Your desires are not satisfied - what a shame.
ਅਸਾਧ ਰੋਗੁ ਉਪਜਿਆ ਸੰਤ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਦੇਹ ਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਮਹਾ ਖਇਆ ॥੩॥ असाध रोगु उपजिआ संत दूखनि देह बिनासी महा खइआ ॥३॥ Asāḏẖ rog upji▫ā sanṯ ḏūkẖan ḏeh bināsī mahā kẖa▫i▫ā. ||3|| You have contracted an incurable disease; slandering the Saints, your body is wasting away; you are utterly ruined. ||3||
ਜਿਨਹਿ ਨਿਵਾਜੇ ਤਿਨ ਹੀ ਸਾਜੇ ਆਪੇ ਕੀਨੇ ਸੰਤ ਜਇਆ ॥ जिनहि निवाजे तिन ही साजे आपे कीने संत जइआ ॥ Jinėh nivāje ṯin hī sāje āpe kīne sanṯ ja▫i▫ā. He embellishes those whom He has fashioned. He Himself gave life to the Saints.
ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸ ਕੰਠਿ ਲਾਇ ਰਾਖੇ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਇਆ ॥੪॥੪੪॥੫੫॥ नानक दास कंठि लाइ राखे करि किरपा पारब्रहम मइआ ॥४॥४४॥५५॥ Nānak ḏās kanṯẖ lā▫e rākẖe kar kirpā pārbarahm ma▫i▫ā. ||4||44||55|| O Nanak, He hugs His slaves close in His Embrace. Please grant Your Grace, O Supreme Lord God, and be kind to me as well. ||4||44||55||
ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ रामकली महला ५ ॥ Rāmkalī mėhlā 5. Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:
ਐਸਾ ਪੂਰਾ ਗੁਰਦੇਉ ਸਹਾਈ ॥ ऐसा पूरा गुरदेउ सहाई ॥ Aisā pūrā gurḏe▫o sahā▫ī. Such is the Perfect Divine Guru, my help and support.
ਜਾ ਕਾ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ जा का सिमरनु बिरथा न जाई ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Jā kā simran birthā na jā▫ī. ||1|| rahā▫o. Meditation on Him is not wasted. ||1||Pause||
ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪੇਖਤ ਹੋਇ ਨਿਹਾਲੁ ॥ दरसनु पेखत होइ निहालु ॥ Ḏarsan pekẖaṯ ho▫e nihāl. Gazing upon the Blessed Vision of His Darshan, I am enraptured.
ਜਾ ਕੀ ਧੂਰਿ ਕਾਟੈ ਜਮ ਜਾਲੁ ॥ जा की धूरि काटै जम जालु ॥ Jā kī ḏẖūr kātai jam jāl. The dust of His feet snaps the noose of Death.
ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲ ਬਸੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਕੇ ॥ चरन कमल बसे मेरे मन के ॥ Cẖaran kamal base mere man ke. His lotus feet dwell within my mind,
ਕਾਰਜ ਸਵਾਰੇ ਸਗਲੇ ਤਨ ਕੇ ॥੧॥ कारज सवारे सगले तन के ॥१॥ Kāraj savāre sagle ṯan ke. ||1|| and so all the affairs of my body are arranged and resolved. ||1||
ਜਾ ਕੈ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਰਾਖੈ ਹਾਥੁ ॥ जा कै मसतकि राखै हाथु ॥ Jā kai masṯak rākẖai hāth. One upon whom He places His Hand, is protected.
ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਮੇਰੋ ਅਨਾਥ ਕੋ ਨਾਥੁ ॥ प्रभु मेरो अनाथ को नाथु ॥ Parabẖ mero anāth ko nāth. My God is the Master of the masterless.
ਪਤਿਤ ਉਧਾਰਣੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ॥ पतित उधारणु क्रिपा निधानु ॥ Paṯiṯ uḏẖāraṇ kirpā niḏẖān. He is the Savior of sinners, the treasure of mercy.
ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਜਾਈਐ ਕੁਰਬਾਨੁ ॥੨॥ सदा सदा जाईऐ कुरबानु ॥२॥ Saḏā saḏā jā▫ī▫ai kurbān. ||2|| Forever and ever, I am a sacrifice to Him. ||2||
ਨਿਰਮਲ ਮੰਤੁ ਦੇਇ ਜਿਸੁ ਦਾਨੁ ॥ निरमल मंतु देइ जिसु दानु ॥ Nirmal manṯ ḏe▫e jis ḏān. One whom He blesses with His Immaculate Mantra,
ਤਜਹਿ ਬਿਕਾਰ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥ तजहि बिकार बिनसै अभिमानु ॥ Ŧajėh bikār binsai abẖimān. renounces corruption; his egotistical pride is dispelled.
ਏਕੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਸਾਧ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ॥ एकु धिआईऐ साध कै संगि ॥ Ėk ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai sāḏẖ kai sang. Meditate on the One Lord in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy.
ਪਾਪ ਬਿਨਾਸੇ ਨਾਮ ਕੈ ਰੰਗਿ ॥੩॥ पाप बिनासे नाम कै रंगि ॥३॥ Pāp bināse nām kai rang. ||3|| Sins are erased, through the love of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||3||
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਸਗਲ ਨਿਵਾਸ ॥ गुर परमेसुर सगल निवास ॥ Gur parmesur sagal nivās. The Guru, the Transcendent Lord, dwells among all.
ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਗੁਣਤਾਸ ॥ घटि घटि रवि रहिआ गुणतास ॥ Gẖat gẖat rav rahi▫ā guṇṯās. The treasure of virtue pervades and permeates each and every heart.
ਦਰਸੁ ਦੇਹਿ ਧਾਰਉ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਆਸ ॥ दरसु देहि धारउ प्रभ आस ॥ Ḏaras ḏėh ḏẖāra▫o parabẖ ās. Please grant me the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan;
ਨਿਤ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਚਿਤਵੈ ਸਚੁ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ॥੪॥੪੫॥੫੬॥ नित नानकु चितवै सचु अरदासि ॥४॥४५॥५६॥ Niṯ Nānak cẖiṯvai sacẖ arḏās. ||4||45||56|| O God, I place my hopes in You. Nanak continually offers this true prayer. ||4||45||56||


ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ੴ सति नामु करता पुरखु निरभउ निरवैरु अकाल मूरति अजूनी सैभं गुर प्रसादि ॥ Ik▫oaŉkār saṯ nām karṯā purakẖ nirbẖa▫o nirvair akāl mūraṯ ajūnī saibẖaŉ gur parsāḏ. One Universal Creator God. Truth Is The Name. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying. Beyond Birth. Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace:
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ ਚਉਪਦੇ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੨ ॥ रागु बिहागड़ा चउपदे महला ५ घरु २ ॥ Rāg bihāgaṛā cẖa▫upḏe mėhlā 5 gẖar 2. Raag Bihaagraa, Chau-Padas, Fifth Mehl, Second House:
ਦੂਤਨ ਸੰਗਰੀਆ ॥ दूतन संगरीआ ॥ Ḏūṯan sangrī▫ā. To associate with your arch enemies,
ਭੁਇਅੰਗਨਿ ਬਸਰੀਆ ॥ भुइअंगनि बसरीआ ॥ Bẖu▫i▫angan basrī▫ā. is to live with poisonous snakes;
ਅਨਿਕ ਉਪਰੀਆ ॥੧॥ अनिक उपरीआ ॥१॥ Anik uprī▫ā. ||1|| I have made the effort to shake them off. ||1||
ਤਉ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਰੀਆ ॥ तउ मै हरि हरि करीआ ॥ Ŧa▫o mai har har karī▫ā. Then, I repeated the Name of the Lord, Har, Har,
ਤਉ ਸੁਖ ਸਹਜਰੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ तउ सुख सहजरीआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Ŧa▫o sukẖ sėhjarī▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o. and I obtained celestial peace. ||1||Pause||
ਮਿਥਨ ਮੋਹਰੀਆ ॥ मिथन मोहरीआ ॥ Mithan mohrī▫ā. False is the love of,
ਅਨ ਕਉ ਮੇਰੀਆ ॥ अन कउ मेरीआ ॥ An ka▫o merī▫ā. many emotional attachments,
ਵਿਚਿ ਘੂਮਨ ਘਿਰੀਆ ॥੨॥ विचि घूमन घिरीआ ॥२॥ vicẖ gẖūman gẖirī▫ā. ||2|| which suck the mortal into the whirlpool of reincarnation. ||2||
ਸਗਲ ਬਟਰੀਆ ॥ सगल बटरीआ ॥ Sagal batrī▫ā. All are travelers,
ਬਿਰਖ ਇਕ ਤਰੀਆ ॥ बिरख इक तरीआ ॥ Birakẖ ik ṯarī▫ā. who have gathered under the world-tree,
ਬਹੁ ਬੰਧਹਿ ਪਰੀਆ ॥੩॥ बहु बंधहि परीआ ॥३॥ Baho banḏẖėh parī▫ā. ||3|| and are bound by their many bonds. ||3||
ਥਿਰੁ ਸਾਧ ਸਫਰੀਆ ॥ थिरु साध सफरीआ ॥ Thir sāḏẖ safrī▫ā. Eternal is the Company of the Holy,
ਜਹ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਹਰੀਆ ॥ जह कीरतनु हरीआ ॥ Jah kīrṯan harī▫ā. where the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises are sung.
ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਨਰੀਆ ॥੪॥੧॥ नानक सरनरीआ ॥४॥१॥ Nānak sarnarī▫ā. ||4||1|| Nanak seeks this Sanctuary. ||4||1||
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥ Ik▫oaŉkār saṯgur parsāḏ. One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ॥ रागु बिहागड़ा महला ९ ॥ Rāg bihāgaṛā mėhlā 9. Raag Bihaagraa, Ninth Mehl:
ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਨਹਿ ਕੋਊ ਜਾਨੈ ॥ हरि की गति नहि कोऊ जानै ॥ Har kī gaṯ nėh ko▫ū jānai. No one knows the state of the Lord.
ਜੋਗੀ ਜਤੀ ਤਪੀ ਪਚਿ ਹਾਰੇ ਅਰੁ ਬਹੁ ਲੋਗ ਸਿਆਨੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ जोगी जती तपी पचि हारे अरु बहु लोग सिआने ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Jogī jaṯī ṯapī pacẖ hāre ar baho log si▫āne. ||1|| rahā▫o. The Yogis, the celibates, the penitents, and all sorts of clever people have failed. ||1||Pause||
ਛਿਨ ਮਹਿ ਰਾਉ ਰੰਕ ਕਉ ਕਰਈ ਰਾਉ ਰੰਕ ਕਰਿ ਡਾਰੇ ॥ छिन महि राउ रंक कउ करई राउ रंक करि डारे ॥ Cẖẖin mėh rā▫o rank ka▫o kar▫ī rā▫o rank kar dāre. In an instant, He changes the beggar into a king, and the king into a beggar.
ਰੀਤੇ ਭਰੇ ਭਰੇ ਸਖਨਾਵੈ ਯਹ ਤਾ ਕੋ ਬਿਵਹਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ रीते भरे भरे सखनावै यह ता को बिवहारे ॥१॥ Rīṯe bẖare bẖare sakẖnāvai yėh ṯā ko bivhāre. ||1|| He fills what is empty, and empties what is full - such are His ways. ||1||
ਅਪਨੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਆਪਿ ਪਸਾਰੀ ਆਪਹਿ ਦੇਖਨਹਾਰਾ ॥ अपनी माइआ आपि पसारी आपहि देखनहारा ॥ Apnī mā▫i▫ā āp pasārī āpėh ḏekẖanhārā. He Himself spread out the expanse of His Maya, and He Himself beholds it.
ਨਾਨਾ ਰੂਪੁ ਧਰੇ ਬਹੁ ਰੰਗੀ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਰਹੈ ਨਿਆਰਾ ॥੨॥ नाना रूपु धरे बहु रंगी सभ ते रहै निआरा ॥२॥ Nānā rūp ḏẖare baho rangī sabẖ ṯe rahai ni▫ārā. ||2|| He assumes so many forms, and plays so many games, and yet, He remains detached from it all. ||2||
ਅਗਨਤ ਅਪਾਰੁ ਅਲਖ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਜਿਹ ਸਭ ਜਗੁ ਭਰਮਾਇਓ ॥ अगनत अपारु अलख निरंजन जिह सभ जगु भरमाइओ ॥ Agnaṯ apār alakẖ niranjan jih sabẖ jag bẖarmā▫i▫o. Incalculable, infinite, incomprehensible and immaculate is He, who has misled the entire world.
ਸਗਲ ਭਰਮ ਤਜਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਚਰਨਿ ਤਾਹਿ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇਓ ॥੩॥੧॥੨॥ सगल भरम तजि नानक प्राणी चरनि ताहि चितु लाइओ ॥३॥१॥२॥ Sagal bẖaram ṯaj Nānak parāṇī cẖaran ṯāhi cẖiṯ lā▫i▫o. ||3||1||2|| Cast off all your doubts; prays Nanak, O mortal, focus your consciousness on His Feet. ||3||1||2||
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ ਛੰਤ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ਘਰੁ ੧ रागु बिहागड़ा छंत महला ४ घरु १ Rāg bihāgaṛā cẖẖanṯ mėhlā 4 gẖar 1 Raag Bihaagraa, Chhant, Fourth Mehl, First House:
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥ Ik▫oaŉkār saṯgur parsāḏ. One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਮੇਰੀ ਜਿੰਦੁੜੀਏ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਮੋਲੇ ਰਾਮ ॥ हरि हरि नामु धिआईऐ मेरी जिंदुड़ीए गुरमुखि नामु अमोले राम ॥ Har har nām ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai merī jinḏuṛī▫e gurmukẖ nām amole rām. Meditate on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, O my soul; as Gurmukh, meditate on the invaluable Name of the Lord.
ਹਰਿ ਰਸਿ ਬੀਧਾ ਹਰਿ ਮਨੁ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਸਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਝਕੋਲੇ ਰਾਮ ॥ हरि रसि बीधा हरि मनु पिआरा मनु हरि रसि नामि झकोले राम ॥ Har ras bīḏẖā har man pi▫ārā man har ras nām jẖakole rām. My mind is pierced through by the sublime essence of the Lord's Name. The Lord is dear to my mind. With the sublime essence of the Lord's Name, my mind is washed clean.

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥ Ik▫oaŉkār saṯgur parsāḏ. One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕਾ ਚਉਪਦਾ ਘਰੁ ੨ ਦੂਜਾ ॥ स्री कबीर जीउ का चउपदा घरु २ दूजा ॥ Sarī Kabīr jī▫o kā cẖa▫upaḏā gẖar 2 ḏūjā. Chau-Padas Of Kabeer Jee, Second House:
ਚਾਰਿ ਪਾਵ ਦੁਇ ਸਿੰਗ ਗੁੰਗ ਮੁਖ ਤਬ ਕੈਸੇ ਗੁਨ ਗਈਹੈ ॥ चारि पाव दुइ सिंग गुंग मुख तब कैसे गुन गईहै ॥ Cẖār pāv ḏu▫e sing gung mukẖ ṯab kaise gun ga▫īhai. With four feet, two horns and a mute mouth, how could you sing the Praises of the Lord?
ਊਠਤ ਬੈਠਤ ਠੇਗਾ ਪਰਿਹੈ ਤਬ ਕਤ ਮੂਡ ਲੁਕਈਹੈ ॥੧॥ ऊठत बैठत ठेगा परिहै तब कत मूड लुकईहै ॥१॥ Ūṯẖaṯ baiṯẖaṯ ṯẖegā parihai ṯab kaṯ mūd luka▫īhai. ||1|| Standing up and sitting down, the stick shall still fall on you, so where will you hide your head? ||1||
ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਬੈਲ ਬਿਰਾਨੇ ਹੁਈਹੈ ॥ हरि बिनु बैल बिराने हुईहै ॥ Har bin bail birāne hu▫īhai. Without the Lord, you are like a stray ox;
ਫਾਟੇ ਨਾਕਨ ਟੂਟੇ ਕਾਧਨ ਕੋਦਉ ਕੋ ਭੁਸੁ ਖਈਹੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ फाटे नाकन टूटे काधन कोदउ को भुसु खईहै ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Fāte nākan tūte kāḏẖan koḏa▫o ko bẖus kẖa▫īhai. ||1|| rahā▫o. with your nose torn, and your shoulders injured, you shall have only the straw of co{censored} grain to eat. ||1||Pause||
ਸਾਰੋ ਦਿਨੁ ਡੋਲਤ ਬਨ ਮਹੀਆ ਅਜਹੁ ਨ ਪੇਟ ਅਘਈਹੈ ॥ सारो दिनु डोलत बन महीआ अजहु न पेट अघईहै ॥ Sāro ḏin dolaṯ ban mahī▫ā ajahu na pet agẖ▫īhai. All day long, you shall wander in the forest, and even then, your belly will not be full.
ਜਨ ਭਗਤਨ ਕੋ ਕਹੋ ਨ ਮਾਨੋ ਕੀਓ ਅਪਨੋ ਪਈਹੈ ॥੨॥ जन भगतन को कहो न मानो कीओ अपनो पईहै ॥२॥ Jan bẖagṯan ko kaho na māno kī▫o apno pa▫īhai. ||2|| You did not follow the advice of the humble devotees, and so you shall obtain the fruits of your actions. ||2||
ਦੁਖ ਸੁਖ ਕਰਤ ਮਹਾ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਬੂਡੋ ਅਨਿਕ ਜੋਨਿ ਭਰਮਈਹੈ ॥ दुख सुख करत महा भ्रमि बूडो अनिक जोनि भरमईहै ॥ Ḏukẖ sukẖ karaṯ mahā bẖaram būdo anik jon bẖaram▫īhai. Enduring pleasure and pain, drowned in the great ocean of doubt, you shall wander in numerous reincarnations.
ਰਤਨ ਜਨਮੁ ਖੋਇਓ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਬਿਸਰਿਓ ਇਹੁ ਅਉਸਰੁ ਕਤ ਪਈਹੈ ॥੩॥ रतन जनमु खोइओ प्रभु बिसरिओ इहु अउसरु कत पईहै ॥३॥ Raṯan janam kẖo▫i▫o parabẖ bisri▫o ih a▫osar kaṯ pa▫īhai. ||3|| You have lost the jewel of human birth by forgetting God; when will you have such an opportunity again? ||3||
ਭ੍ਰਮਤ ਫਿਰਤ ਤੇਲਕ ਕੇ ਕਪਿ ਜਿਉ ਗਤਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਰੈਨਿ ਬਿਹਈਹੈ ॥ भ्रमत फिरत तेलक के कपि जिउ गति बिनु रैनि बिहईहै ॥ Bẖarmaṯ firaṯ ṯelak ke kap ji▫o gaṯ bin rain bih▫īhai. You turn on the wheel of reincarnation, like an ox at the oil-press; the night of your life passes away without salvation.
ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੂੰਡ ਧੁਨੇ ਪਛੁਤਈਹੈ ॥੪॥੧॥ कहत कबीर राम नाम बिनु मूंड धुने पछुतईहै ॥४॥१॥ Kahaṯ Kabīr rām nām bin mūnd ḏẖune pacẖẖuṯ▫īhai. ||4||1|| Says Kabeer, without the Name of the Lord, you shall pound your head, and regret and repent. ||4||1||
ਗੂਜਰੀ ਘਰੁ ੩ ॥ गूजरी घरु ३ ॥ Gūjrī gẖar 3. Goojaree, Third House:
ਮੁਸਿ ਮੁਸਿ ਰੋਵੈ ਕਬੀਰ ਕੀ ਮਾਈ ॥ मुसि मुसि रोवै कबीर की माई ॥ Mus mus rovai Kabīr kī mā▫ī. Kabeer's mother sobs, cries and bewails -
ਏ ਬਾਰਿਕ ਕੈਸੇ ਜੀਵਹਿ ਰਘੁਰਾਈ ॥੧॥ ए बारिक कैसे जीवहि रघुराई ॥१॥ Ė bārik kaise jīvėh ragẖurā▫ī. ||1|| O Lord, how will my grandchildren live? ||1||
ਤਨਨਾ ਬੁਨਨਾ ਸਭੁ ਤਜਿਓ ਹੈ ਕਬੀਰ ॥ तनना बुनना सभु तजिओ है कबीर ॥ Ŧannā bunnā sabẖ ṯaji▫o hai Kabīr. Kabeer has given up all his spinning and weaving,
ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਲਿਖਿ ਲੀਓ ਸਰੀਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ हरि का नामु लिखि लीओ सरीर ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Har kā nām likẖ lī▫o sarīr. ||1|| rahā▫o. and written the Name of the Lord on his body. ||1||Pause||
ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਤਾਗਾ ਬਾਹਉ ਬੇਹੀ ॥ जब लगु तागा बाहउ बेही ॥ Jab lag ṯāgā bāha▫o behī. As long as I pass the thread through the bobbin,
ਤਬ ਲਗੁ ਬਿਸਰੈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਨੇਹੀ ॥੨॥ तब लगु बिसरै रामु सनेही ॥२॥ Ŧab lag bisrai rām sanehī. ||2|| I forget the Lord, my Beloved. ||2||
ਓਛੀ ਮਤਿ ਮੇਰੀ ਜਾਤਿ ਜੁਲਾਹਾ ॥ ओछी मति मेरी जाति जुलाहा ॥ Ocẖẖī maṯ merī jāṯ julāhā. My intellect is lowly - I am a weaver by birth,
ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਲਹਿਓ ਮੈ ਲਾਹਾ ॥੩॥ हरि का नामु लहिओ मै लाहा ॥३॥ Har kā nām lahi▫o mai lāhā. ||3|| but I have earned the profit of the Name of the Lord. ||3||
ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਈ ॥ कहत कबीर सुनहु मेरी माई ॥ Kahaṯ Kabīr sunhu merī mā▫ī. Says Kabeer, listen, O my mother -
ਹਮਰਾ ਇਨ ਕਾ ਦਾਤਾ ਏਕੁ ਰਘੁਰਾਈ ॥੪॥੨॥ हमरा इन का दाता एकु रघुराई ॥४॥२॥ Hamrā in kā ḏāṯā ek ragẖurā▫ī. ||4||2|| the Lord alone is the Provider, for me and my children. ||4||2||


ਨਾਮ ਬਿਹੂਨੇ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਹੋਤ ਜਾਤ ਸਭੁ ਧੂਰ ॥੧॥ नाम बिहूने नानका होत जात सभु धूर ॥१॥ Nām bihūne nānkā hoṯ jāṯ sabẖ ḏẖūr. ||1|| Without the Naam, the Name of the Lord, O Nanak, all are reduced to dust. ||1||
ਪਵੜੀ ॥ पवड़ी ॥ Pavṛī. Pauree:
ਧਧਾ ਧੂਰਿ ਪੁਨੀਤ ਤੇਰੇ ਜਨੂਆ ॥ धधा धूरि पुनीत तेरे जनूआ ॥ Ḏẖaḏẖā ḏẖūr punīṯ ṯere janū▫ā. DHADHA: The dust of the feet of the Saints is sacred.
ਧਨਿ ਤੇਊ ਜਿਹ ਰੁਚ ਇਆ ਮਨੂਆ ॥ धनि तेऊ जिह रुच इआ मनूआ ॥ Ḏẖan ṯe▫ū jih rucẖ i▫ā manū▫ā. Blessed are those whose minds are filled with this longing.
ਧਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਬਾਛਹਿ ਸੁਰਗ ਨ ਆਛਹਿ ॥ धनु नही बाछहि सुरग न आछहि ॥ Ḏẖan nahī bācẖẖėh surag na ācẖẖėh. They do not seek wealth, and they do not desire paradise.
ਅਤਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਸਾਧ ਰਜ ਰਾਚਹਿ ॥ अति प्रिअ प्रीति साध रज राचहि ॥ Aṯ pari▫a parīṯ sāḏẖ raj rācẖėh. They are immersed in the deep love of their Beloved, and the dust of the feet of the Holy.
ਧੰਧੇ ਕਹਾ ਬਿਆਪਹਿ ਤਾਹੂ ॥ धंधे कहा बिआपहि ताहू ॥ Ḏẖanḏẖe kahā bi▫āpahi ṯāhū. How can worldly affairs affect those,
ਜੋ ਏਕ ਛਾਡਿ ਅਨ ਕਤਹਿ ਨ ਜਾਹੂ ॥ जो एक छाडि अन कतहि न जाहू ॥ Jo ek cẖẖād an kaṯėh na jāhū. who do not abandon the One Lord, and who go nowhere else?
ਜਾ ਕੈ ਹੀਐ ਦੀਓ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਨਾਮ ॥ जा कै हीऐ दीओ प्रभ नाम ॥ Jā kai hī▫ai ḏī▫o parabẖ nām. One whose heart is filled with God's Name,
ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਧ ਪੂਰਨ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥੪॥ नानक साध पूरन भगवान ॥४॥ Nānak sāḏẖ pūran bẖagvān. ||4|| O Nanak, is a perfect spiritual being of God. ||4||
ਸਲੋਕ ॥ सलोक ॥ Salok. Shalok:
ਅਨਿਕ ਭੇਖ ਅਰੁ ਙਿਆਨ ਧਿਆਨ ਮਨਹਠਿ ਮਿਲਿਅਉ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ अनिक भेख अरु ङिआन धिआन मनहठि मिलिअउ न कोइ ॥ Anik bẖekẖ ar ńi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān manhaṯẖ mili▫a▫o na ko▫e. By all sorts of religious robes, knowledge, meditation and stubborn-mindedness, no one has ever met God.
ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਭਈ ਭਗਤੁ ਙਿਆਨੀ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥ कहु नानक किरपा भई भगतु ङिआनी सोइ ॥१॥ Kaho Nānak kirpā bẖa▫ī bẖagaṯ ńi▫ānī so▫e. ||1|| Says Nanak, those upon whom God showers His Mercy, are devotees of spiritual wisdom. ||1||
ਪਉੜੀ ॥ पउड़ी ॥ Pa▫oṛī. Pauree:
ਙੰਙਾ ਙਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਮੁਖ ਬਾਤਉ ॥ ङंङा ङिआनु नही मुख बातउ ॥ Ńańā ńi▫ān nahī mukẖ bāṯa▫o. NGANGA: Spiritual wisdom is not obtained by mere words of mouth.
ਅਨਿਕ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਕਰਿ ਭਾਤਉ ॥ अनिक जुगति सासत्र करि भातउ ॥ Anik jugaṯ sāsṯar kar bẖāṯa▫o. It is not obtained through the various debates of the Shaastras and scriptures.
ਙਿਆਨੀ ਸੋਇ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਦ੍ਰਿੜ ਸੋਊ ॥ ङिआनी सोइ जा कै द्रिड़ सोऊ ॥ Ńi▫ānī so▫e jā kai ḏariṛ so▫ū. They alone are spiritually wise, whose minds are firmly fixed on the Lord.
ਕਹਤ ਸੁਨਤ ਕਛੁ ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਹੋਊ ॥ कहत सुनत कछु जोगु न होऊ ॥ Kahaṯ sunaṯ kacẖẖ jog na ho▫ū. Hearing and telling stories, no one attains Yoga.
ਙਿਆਨੀ ਰਹਤ ਆਗਿਆ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੁ ਜਾ ਕੈ ॥ ङिआनी रहत आगिआ द्रिड़ु जा कै ॥ Ńi▫ānī rahaṯ āgi▫ā ḏariṛ jā kai. They alone are spiritually wise, who remain firmly committed to the Lord's Command.
ਉਸਨ ਸੀਤ ਸਮਸਰਿ ਸਭ ਤਾ ਕੈ ॥ उसन सीत समसरि सभ ता कै ॥ Usan sīṯ samsar sabẖ ṯā kai. Heat and cold are all the same to them.
ਙਿਆਨੀ ਤਤੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੀਚਾਰੀ ॥ ङिआनी ततु गुरमुखि बीचारी ॥ Ńi▫ānī ṯaṯ gurmukẖ bīcẖārī. The true people of spiritual wisdom are the Gurmukhs, who contemplate the essence of reality;
ਨਾਨਕ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰੀ ॥੫॥ नानक जा कउ किरपा धारी ॥५॥ Nānak jā ka▫o kirpā ḏẖārī. ||5|| O Nanak, the Lord showers His Mercy upon them. ||5||
ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ सलोकु ॥ Salok. Shalok:
ਆਵਨ ਆਏ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਮਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਬੂਝੇ ਪਸੁ ਢੋਰ ॥ आवन आए स्रिसटि महि बिनु बूझे पसु ढोर ॥ Āvan ā▫e sarisat mėh bin būjẖe pas dẖor. Those who have come into the world without understanding are like animals and beasts.
ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੋ ਬੁਝੈ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਭਾਗ ਮਥੋਰ ॥੧॥ नानक गुरमुखि सो बुझै जा कै भाग मथोर ॥१॥ Nānak gurmukẖ so bujẖai jā kai bẖāg mathor. ||1|| O Nanak, those who become Gurmukh understand; upon their foreheads is such pre-ordained destiny. ||1||
ਪਉੜੀ ॥ पउड़ी ॥ Pa▫oṛī. Pauree:
ਯਾ ਜੁਗ ਮਹਿ ਏਕਹਿ ਕਉ ਆਇਆ ॥ या जुग महि एकहि कउ आइआ ॥ Yā jug mėh ekėh ka▫o ā▫i▫ā. They have come into this world to meditate on the One Lord.
ਜਨਮਤ ਮੋਹਿਓ ਮੋਹਨੀ ਮਾਇਆ ॥ जनमत मोहिओ मोहनी माइआ ॥ Janmaṯ mohi▫o mohnī mā▫i▫ā. But ever since their birth, they have been enticed by the fascination of Maya.
ਗਰਭ ਕੁੰਟ ਮਹਿ ਉਰਧ ਤਪ ਕਰਤੇ ॥ गरभ कुंट महि उरध तप करते ॥ Garabẖ kunt mėh uraḏẖ ṯap karṯe. Upside-down in the chamber of the womb, they performed intense meditation.
ਸਾਸਿ ਸਾਸਿ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਰਹਤੇ ॥ सासि सासि सिमरत प्रभु रहते ॥ Sās sās simraṯ parabẖ rahṯe. They remembered God in meditation with each and every breath.
ਉਰਝਿ ਪਰੇ ਜੋ ਛੋਡਿ ਛਡਾਨਾ ॥ उरझि परे जो छोडि छडाना ॥ Urajẖ pare jo cẖẖod cẖẖadānā. But now, they are entangled in things which they must leave behind.
ਦੇਵਨਹਾਰੁ ਮਨਹਿ ਬਿਸਰਾਨਾ ॥ देवनहारु मनहि बिसराना ॥ Ḏevanhār manėh bisrānā. They forget the Great Giver from their minds.
ਧਾਰਹੁ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਜਿਸਹਿ ਗੁਸਾਈ ॥ धारहु किरपा जिसहि गुसाई ॥ Ḏẖārahu kirpā jisahi gusā▫ī. Those upon whom the Lord showers His Mercy,
ਇਤ ਉਤ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸੁ ਬਿਸਰਹੁ ਨਾਹੀ ॥੬॥ इत उत नानक तिसु बिसरहु नाही ॥६॥ Iṯ uṯ Nānak ṯis bisrahu nāhī. ||6|| O Nanak, they do not forget Him, here or hereafter. ||6||
ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ सलोकु ॥ Salok. Shalok:
ਆਵਤ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਬਿਨਾਸ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਆਗਿਆ ਭਿੰਨ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ आवत हुकमि बिनास हुकमि आगिआ भिंन न कोइ ॥ Āvaṯ hukam binās hukam āgi▫ā bẖinn na ko▫e. By His Command, we come, and by His Command, we go; no one is beyond His Command.
ਆਵਨ ਜਾਨਾ ਤਿਹ ਮਿਟੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਹ ਮਨਿ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥ आवन जाना तिह मिटै नानक जिह मनि सोइ ॥१॥ Āvan jānā ṯih mitai Nānak jih man so▫e. ||1|| Coming and going in reincarnation is ended, O Nanak, for those whose minds are filled with the Lord. ||1||
ਪਉੜੀ ॥ पउड़ी ॥ Pa▫oṛī. Pauree:
ਏਊ ਜੀਅ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਗ੍ਰਭ ਵਾਸੇ ॥ एऊ जीअ बहुतु ग्रभ वासे ॥ Ė▫ū jī▫a bahuṯ garabẖ vāse. This soul has lived in many wombs.
ਮੋਹ ਮਗਨ ਮੀਠ ਜੋਨਿ ਫਾਸੇ ॥ मोह मगन मीठ जोनि फासे ॥ Moh magan mīṯẖ jon fāse. Enticed by sweet attachment, it has been trapped in reincarnation.
ਇਨਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਬਸਿ ਕੀਨੇ ॥ इनि माइआ त्रै गुण बसि कीने ॥ In mā▫i▫ā ṯarai guṇ bas kīne. This Maya has subjugated beings through the three qualities.
ਆਪਨ ਮੋਹ ਘਟੇ ਘਟਿ ਦੀਨੇ ॥ आपन मोह घटे घटि दीने ॥ Āpan moh gẖate gẖat ḏīne. Maya has infused attachment to itself in each and every heart.
ਏ ਸਾਜਨ ਕਛੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ ए साजन कछु कहहु उपाइआ ॥ Ė sājan kacẖẖ kahhu upā▫i▫ā. O friend, tell me some way,
ਜਾ ਤੇ ਤਰਉ ਬਿਖਮ ਇਹ ਮਾਇਆ ॥ जा ते तरउ बिखम इह माइआ ॥ Jā ṯe ṯara▫o bikẖam ih mā▫i▫ā. by which I may swim across this treacherous ocean of Maya.
ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਸਤਸੰਗਿ ਮਿਲਾਏ ॥ करि किरपा सतसंगि मिलाए ॥ Kar kirpā saṯsang milā▫e. The Lord showers His Mercy, and leads us to join the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation.
ਨਾਨਕ ਤਾ ਕੈ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਨ ਮਾਏ ॥੭॥ नानक ता कै निकटि न माए ॥७॥ Nānak ṯā kai nikat na mā▫e. ||7|| O Nanak, Maya does not even come near. ||7||
ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ सलोकु ॥ Salok. Shalok:
ਕਿਰਤ ਕਮਾਵਨ ਸੁਭ ਅਸੁਭ ਕੀਨੇ ਤਿਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਆਪਿ ॥ किरत कमावन सुभ असुभ कीने तिनि प्रभि आपि ॥ Kiraṯ kamāvan subẖ asubẖ kīne ṯin parabẖ āp. God Himself causes one to perform good and bad actions.
ਪਸੁ ਆਪਨ ਹਉ ਹਉ ਕਰੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਹਾ ਕਮਾਤਿ ॥੧॥ पसु आपन हउ हउ करै नानक बिनु हरि कहा कमाति ॥१॥ Pas āpan ha▫o ha▫o karai Nānak bin har kahā kamāṯ. ||1|| The beast indulges in egotism, selfishness and conceit; O Nanak, without the Lord, what can anyone do? ||1||
ਪਉੜੀ ॥ पउड़ी ॥ Pa▫oṛī. Pauree:
ਏਕਹਿ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਾਵਨਹਾਰਾ ॥ एकहि आपि करावनहारा ॥ Ėkėh āp karāvanhārā. The One Lord Himself is the Cause of all actions.
ਆਪਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਬਿਸਥਾਰਾ ॥ आपहि पाप पुंन बिसथारा ॥ Āpėh pāp punn bisthārā. He Himself distributes sins and noble acts.
ਇਆ ਜੁਗ ਜਿਤੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਆਪਹਿ ਲਾਇਓ ॥ इआ जुग जितु जितु आपहि लाइओ ॥ I▫ā jug jiṯ jiṯ āpėh lā▫i▫o. In this age, people are attached as the Lord attaches them.
ਸੋ ਸੋ ਪਾਇਓ ਜੁ ਆਪਿ ਦਿਵਾਇਓ ॥ सो सो पाइओ जु आपि दिवाइओ ॥ So so pā▫i▫o jo āp divā▫i▫o. They receive that which the Lord Himself gives.
ਉਆ ਕਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਨੈ ਕੋਊ ॥ उआ का अंतु न जानै कोऊ ॥ U▫ā kā anṯ na jānai ko▫ū. No one knows His limits.
ਜੋ ਜੋ ਕਰੈ ਸੋਊ ਫੁਨਿ ਹੋਊ ॥ जो जो करै सोऊ फुनि होऊ ॥ Jo jo karai so▫ū fun ho▫ū. Whatever He does, comes to pass.
ਏਕਹਿ ਤੇ ਸਗਲਾ ਬਿਸਥਾਰਾ ॥ एकहि ते सगला बिसथारा ॥ Ėkėh ṯe saglā bisthārā. From the One, the entire expanse of the Universe emanated.
ਨਾਨਕ ਆਪਿ ਸਵਾਰਨਹਾਰਾ ॥੮॥ नानक आपि सवारनहारा ॥८॥ Nānak āp savāranhārā. ||8|| O Nanak, He Himself is our Saving Grace. ||8||
ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ सलोकु ॥ Salok. Shalok:
ਰਾਚਿ ਰਹੇ ਬਨਿਤਾ ਬਿਨੋਦ ਕੁਸਮ ਰੰਗ ਬਿਖ ਸੋਰ ॥ राचि रहे बनिता बिनोद कुसम रंग बिख सोर ॥ Rācẖ rahe baniṯā binoḏ kusam rang bikẖ sor. Man remains engrossed in women and playful pleasures; the tumult of his passion is like the dye of the safflower, which fades away all too soon.
ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਹ ਸਰਨੀ ਪਰਉ ਬਿਨਸਿ ਜਾਇ ਮੈ ਮੋਰ ॥੧॥ नानक तिह सरनी परउ बिनसि जाइ मै मोर ॥१॥ Nānak ṯih sarnī para▫o binas jā▫e mai mor. ||1|| O Nanak, seek God's Sanctuary, and your selfishness and conceit shall be taken away. ||1||

ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ माझ महला ३ ॥ Mājẖ mėhlā 3. Maajh, Third Mehl:
ਇਸੁ ਗੁਫਾ ਮਹਿ ਅਖੁਟ ਭੰਡਾਰਾ ॥ इसु गुफा महि अखुट भंडारा ॥ Is gufā mėh akẖut bẖandārā. Within this cave, there is an inexhaustible treasure.
ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਰਿ ਅਲਖ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥ तिसु विचि वसै हरि अलख अपारा ॥ Ŧis vicẖ vasai har alakẖ apārā. Within this cave, the Invisible and Infinite Lord abides.
ਆਪੇ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੈ ਆਪੇ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਆਪੁ ਵੰਞਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ आपे गुपतु परगटु है आपे गुर सबदी आपु वंञावणिआ ॥१॥ Āpe gupaṯ pargat hai āpe gur sabḏī āp vañāvaṇ▫i▫ā. ||1|| He Himself is hidden, and He Himself is revealed; through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, selfishness and conceit are eliminated. ||1||
ਹਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਵਣਿਆ ॥ हउ वारी जीउ वारी अम्रित नामु मंनि वसावणिआ ॥ Ha▫o vārī jī▫o vārī amriṯ nām man vasāvaṇi▫ā. I am a sacrifice, my soul is a sacrifice, to those who enshrine the Ambrosial Naam, the Name of the Lord, within their minds.
ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਹਾ ਰਸੁ ਮੀਠਾ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਆਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ अम्रित नामु महा रसु मीठा गुरमती अम्रितु पीआवणिआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Amriṯ nām mahā ras mīṯẖā gurmaṯī amriṯ pī▫āvṇi▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o. The taste of the Ambrosial Naam is very sweet! Through the Guru's Teachings, drink in this Ambrosial Nectar. ||1||Pause||
ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰਿ ਬਜਰ ਕਪਾਟ ਖੁਲਾਇਆ ॥ हउमै मारि बजर कपाट खुलाइआ ॥ Ha▫umai mār bajar kapāt kẖulā▫i▫ā. Subduing egotism, the rigid doors are opened.
ਨਾਮੁ ਅਮੋਲਕੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ नामु अमोलकु गुर परसादी पाइआ ॥ Nām amolak gur parsādī pā▫i▫ā. The Priceless Naam is obtained by Guru's Grace.
ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਪਾਏ ਕੋਈ ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੨॥ बिनु सबदै नामु न पाए कोई गुर किरपा मंनि वसावणिआ ॥२॥ Bin sabḏai nām na pā▫e ko▫ī gur kirpā man vasāvaṇi▫ā. ||2|| Without the Shabad, the Naam is not obtained. By Guru's Grace, it is implanted within the mind. ||2||
ਗੁਰ ਗਿਆਨ ਅੰਜਨੁ ਸਚੁ ਨੇਤ੍ਰੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ गुर गिआन अंजनु सचु नेत्री पाइआ ॥ Gur gi▫ān anjan sacẖ neṯrī pā▫i▫ā. The Guru has applied the true ointment of spiritual wisdom to my eyes.
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਅਗਿਆਨੁ ਅੰਧੇਰੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥ अंतरि चानणु अगिआनु अंधेरु गवाइआ ॥ Anṯar cẖānaṇ agi▫ān anḏẖer gavā▫i▫ā. Deep within, the Divine Light has dawned, and the darkness of ignorance has been dispelled.
ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲੀ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਿ ਸੋਭਾ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੩॥ जोती जोति मिली मनु मानिआ हरि दरि सोभा पावणिआ ॥३॥ Joṯī joṯ milī man māni▫ā har ḏar sobẖā pāvṇi▫ā. ||3|| My light has merged into the Light; my mind has surrendered, and I am blessed with Glory in the Court of the Lord. ||3||
ਸਰੀਰਹੁ ਭਾਲਣਿ ਕੋ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਜਾਏ ॥ सरीरहु भालणि को बाहरि जाए ॥ Sarīrahu bẖālaṇ ko bāhar jā▫e. Those who look outside the body, searching for the Lord,
ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਲਹੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਵੇਗਾਰਿ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਏ ॥ नामु न लहै बहुतु वेगारि दुखु पाए ॥ Nām na lahai bahuṯ vegār ḏukẖ pā▫e. shall not receive the Naam; they shall instead be forced to suffer the terrible pains of slavery.
ਮਨਮੁਖ ਅੰਧੇ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਘਿਰਿ ਆਇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵਥੁ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੪॥ मनमुख अंधे सूझै नाही फिरि घिरि आइ गुरमुखि वथु पावणिआ ॥४॥ Manmukẖ anḏẖe sūjẖai nāhī fir gẖir ā▫e gurmukẖ vath pāvṇi▫ā. ||4|| The blind, self-willed manmukhs do not understand; but when they return once again to their own home, then, as Gurmukh, they find the genuine article. ||4||
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਸਚਾ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਏ ॥ गुर परसादी सचा हरि पाए ॥ Gur parsādī sacẖā har pā▫e. By Guru's Grace, the True Lord is found.
ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੈਲੁ ਜਾਏ ॥ मनि तनि वेखै हउमै मैलु जाए ॥ Man ṯan vekẖai ha▫umai mail jā▫e. Within your mind and body, see the Lord, and the filth of egotism shall depart.
ਬੈਸਿ ਸੁਥਾਨਿ ਸਦ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਸਚੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਮਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੫॥ बैसि सुथानि सद हरि गुण गावै सचै सबदि समावणिआ ॥५॥ Bais suthān saḏ har guṇ gāvai sacẖai sabaḏ samāvaṇi▫ā. ||5|| Sitting in that place, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord forever, and be absorbed in the True Word of the Shabad. ||5||
ਨਉ ਦਰ ਠਾਕੇ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਹਾਏ ॥ नउ दर ठाके धावतु रहाए ॥ Na▫o ḏar ṯẖāke ḏẖāvaṯ rahā▫e. Those who close off the nine gates, and restrain the wandering mind,
ਦਸਵੈ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਪਾਏ ॥ दसवै निज घरि वासा पाए ॥ Ḏasvai nij gẖar vāsā pā▫e. come to dwell in the Home of the Tenth Gate.
ਓਥੈ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦ ਵਜਹਿ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੬॥ ओथै अनहद सबद वजहि दिनु राती गुरमती सबदु सुणावणिआ ॥६॥ Othai anhaḏ sabaḏ vajėh ḏin rāṯī gurmaṯī sabaḏ suṇāvṇi▫ā. ||6|| There, the Unstruck Melody of the Shabad vibrates day and night. Through the Guru's Teachings, the Shabad is heard. ||6||
ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਆਨੇਰਾ ॥ बिनु सबदै अंतरि आनेरा ॥ Bin sabḏai anṯar ānerā. Without the Shabad, there is only darkness within.
ਨ ਵਸਤੁ ਲਹੈ ਨ ਚੂਕੈ ਫੇਰਾ ॥ न वसतु लहै न चूकै फेरा ॥ Na vasaṯ lahai na cẖūkai ferā. The genuine article is not found, and the cycle of reincarnation does not end.
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਥਿ ਕੁੰਜੀ ਹੋਰਤੁ ਦਰੁ ਖੁਲੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੭॥ सतिगुर हथि कुंजी होरतु दरु खुलै नाही गुरु पूरै भागि मिलावणिआ ॥७॥ Saṯgur hath kunjī horaṯ ḏar kẖulai nāhī gur pūrai bẖāg milāvaṇi▫ā. ||7|| The key is in the hands of the True Guru; no one else can open this door. By perfect destiny, He is met. ||7||
ਗੁਪਤੁ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਤੂੰ ਸਭਨੀ ਥਾਈ ॥ गुपतु परगटु तूं सभनी थाई ॥ Gupaṯ pargat ṯūŉ sabẖnī thā▫ī. You are the hidden and the revealed in all places.
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਮਿਲਿ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਈ ॥ गुर परसादी मिलि सोझी पाई ॥ Gur parsādī mil sojẖī pā▫ī. Receiving Guru's Grace, this understanding is obtained.
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹਿ ਸਦਾ ਤੂੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੮॥੨੪॥੨੫॥ नानक नामु सलाहि सदा तूं गुरमुखि मंनि वसावणिआ ॥८॥२४॥२५॥ Nānak nām salāhi saḏā ṯūŉ gurmukẖ man vasāvaṇi▫ā. ||8||24||25|| O Nanak, praise the Naam forever; as Gurmukh, enshrine it within the mind. ||8||24||25||
ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ माझ महला ३ ॥ Mājẖ mėhlā 3. Maajh, Third Mehl:
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਮਿਲਾਏ ਆਪੇ ॥ गुरमुखि मिलै मिलाए आपे ॥ Gurmukẖ milai milā▫e āpe. The Gurmukhs meet the Lord, and inspire others to meet Him as well.
ਕਾਲੁ ਨ ਜੋਹੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਨ ਸੰਤਾਪੇ ॥ कालु न जोहै दुखु न संतापे ॥ Kāl na johai ḏukẖ na sanṯāpe. Death does not see them, and pain does not afflict them.
ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰਿ ਬੰਧਨ ਸਭ ਤੋੜੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੁਹਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ हउमै मारि बंधन सभ तोड़ै गुरमुखि सबदि सुहावणिआ ॥१॥ Ha▫umai mār banḏẖan sabẖ ṯoṛai gurmukẖ sabaḏ suhāvaṇi▫ā. ||1|| Subduing egotism, they break all their bonds; as Gurmukh, they are adorned with the Word of the Shabad. ||1||
ਹਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸੁਹਾਵਣਿਆ ॥ हउ वारी जीउ वारी हरि हरि नामि सुहावणिआ ॥ Ha▫o vārī jī▫o vārī har har nām suhāvaṇi▫ā. I am a sacrifice, my soul is a sacrifice, to those who look beautiful in the Name of the Lord, Har, Har.
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਾਵੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਚੈ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਤੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ गुरमुखि गावै गुरमुखि नाचै हरि सेती चितु लावणिआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Gurmukẖ gāvai gurmukẖ nācẖai har seṯī cẖiṯ lāvaṇi▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o. The Gurmukhs sing, the Gurmukhs dance, and focus their consciousness on the Lord. ||1||Pause||

ੴ ਸਤਿਗ੝ਰ ਪ੝ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
Ik oankar satgur parsad.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ॥
Salok mohala 9.
Salok, Ninth Mehl:
ਗ੝ਨ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਗਾਇਓ ਨਹੀ ਜਨਮ੝ ਅਕਾਰਥ ਕੀਨ੝ ॥
Gun gobind gĝio nahī janam akĝrath kīn.
If you do not sing the Praises of the Lord, your life is rendered useless.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਭਜ੝ ਮਨਾ ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਜਲ ਕਉ ਮੀਨ੝ ॥੧॥
Kaho Nĝnak har bhaj manĝ jih bidh jal kao mīn. ((1))
Says Nanak, meditate, vibrate upon the Lord; immerse your mind in Him, like the fish in the water. ((1))
ਬਿਖਿਅਨ ਸਿਉ ਕਾਹੇ ਰਚਿਓ ਨਿਮਖ ਨ ਹੋਹਿ ਉਦਾਸ੝ ॥
Bikhian sio kĝhe rachio nimakh na hohi udĝs.
Why are you engrossed in sin and corruption? You are not detached, even for a moment!
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਜ੝ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਾ ਪਰੈ ਨ ਜਮ ਕੀ ਫਾਸ ॥੨॥
Kaho Nĝnak bhaj har manĝ parai na jam kī fĝs. ((2))
Says Nanak, meditate, vibrate upon the Lord, and you shall not be caught in the noose of death. ((2))
ਤਰਨਾਪੋ ਇਉ ਹੀ ਗਇਓ ਲੀਓ ਜਰਾ ਤਨ੝ ਜੀਤਿ ॥
Ŧarnĝpo eo(n) hī gaio līo jarĝ tan jīt.
Your youth has passed away like this, and old age has overtaken your body.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਜ੝ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਾ ਅਉਧ ਜਾਤ੝ ਹੈ ਬੀਤਿ ॥੩॥
Kaho Nĝnak bhaj har manĝ aodh jĝt hai bīt. ((3))
Says Nanak, meditate, vibrate upon the Lord; your life is fleeting away! ((3))
ਬਿਰਧਿ ਭਇਓ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਹੀ ਕਾਲ੝ ਪਹੂਚਿਓ ਆਨਿ ॥
Birad bhaio sūjhai nahī kĝl pahūchio ĝn.
You have become old, and you do not understand that death is overtaking you.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਰ ਬਾਵਰੇ ਕਿਉ ਨ ਭਜੈ ਭਗਵਾਨ੝ ॥੪॥
Kaho Nĝnak nar bĝvre kio na bhajai bhagvĝn. ((4))
Says Nanak, you are insane! Why do you not remember and meditate on God? ((4))
ਧਨ੝ ਦਾਰਾ ਸੰਪਤਿ ਸਗਲ ਜਿਨਿ ਅਪ੝ਨੀ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨਿ ॥
Dhan dĝrĝ sampat sagal jin apunī kar mĝn.
Your wealth, spouse, and all the possessions which you claim as your own -
ਇਨ ਮੈ ਕਛ੝ ਸੰਗੀ ਨਹੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਚੀ ਜਾਨਿ ॥੫॥
In mai kacho sangī nahī Nĝnak sĝchī jĝn. ((5))
none of these shall go along with you in the end. O Nanak, know this as true. ((5))
ਪਤਿਤ ਉਧਾਰਨ ਭੈ ਹਰਨ ਹਰਿ ਅਨਾਥ ਕੇ ਨਾਥ ॥
Patit udhĝran bhai haran har anĝth ke nĝth.
He is the Saving Grace of sinners, the Destroyer of fear, the Master of the masterless.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਹ ਜਾਨੀਝ ਸਦਾ ਬਸਤ੝ ਤ੝ਮ ਸਾਥਿ ॥੬॥
Kaho Nĝnak tih jĝnīai sadĝ basatu tum sĝth. ((6))
Says Nanak, realize and know Him, who is always with you. ((6))
ਤਨ੝ ਧਨ੝ ਜਿਹ ਤੋ ਕਉ ਦੀਓ ਤਾਂ ਸਿਉ ਨੇਹ੝ ਨ ਕੀਨ ॥
Ŧan ḝẖan jih ṯo ka▫o ḝī▫o ṯĝŉ si▫o nehu na kīn.
He has given you your body and wealth, but you are not in love with Him.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਰ ਬਾਵਰੇ ਅਬ ਕਿਉ ਡੋਲਤ ਦੀਨ ॥੭॥
Kaho Nĝnak nar bĝvre ab ki▫o dolaṯ ḝīn. ((7))
Says Nanak, you are insane! Why do you now shake and tremble so helplessly? ((7))
ਤਨ੝ ਧਨ੝ ਸੰਪੈ ਸ੝ਖ ਦੀਓ ਅਰ੝ ਜਿਹ ਨੀਕੇ ਧਾਮ ॥
Ŧan ḝẖan sampai sukẖ ḝī▫o ar jih nīke ḝẖĝm.
He has given you your body, wealth, property, peace and beautiful mansions.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨ੝ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਕਾਹਿ ਨ ਰਾਮ੝ ॥੮॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ simraṯ kĝhi na rĝm. ((8))
Says Nanak, listen, mind: why don't you remember the Lord in meditation? ((8))
ਸਭ ਸ੝ਖ ਦਾਤਾ ਰਾਮ੝ ਹੈ ਦੂਸਰ ਨਾਹਿਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
Sabẖ sukẖ ḝĝṯĝ rĝm hai ḝūsar nĝhin ko▫e.
The Lord is the Giver of all peace and comfort. There is no other at all.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨਿ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਤਿਹ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥੯॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ ṯih simraṯ gaṯ ho▫e. ((9))
Says Nanak, listen, mind: meditating in remembrance on Him, salvation is attained. ((9))
2

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Top : Read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji page 1427
ਜਿਹ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਈਝ ਤਿਹ ਭਜ੝ ਰੇ ਤੈ ਮੀਤ ॥
Jih simraṯ gaṯ pĝ▫ī▫ai ṯih bẖaj re ṯai mīṯ.
Remembering Him in meditation, salvation is attained; vibrate and meditate on Him, O my friend.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨ੝ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਅਉਧ ਘਟਤ ਹੈ ਨੀਤ ॥੧੦॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ a▫oḝẖ gẖataṯ hai nīṯ. ((10))
Says Nanak, listen, mind: your life is passing away! ((10))
ਪਾਂਚ ਤਤ ਕੋ ਤਨ੝ ਰਚਿਓ ਜਾਨਹ੝ ਚਤ੝ਰ ਸ੝ਜਾਨ ॥
Pĝŉcẖ ṯaṯ ko ṯan racẖi▫o jĝnhu cẖaṯur sujĝn.
Your body is made up of the five elements; you are clever and wise - know this well.
ਜਿਹ ਤੇ ਉਪਜਿਓ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਲੀਨ ਤਾਹਿ ਮੈ ਮਾਨ੝ ॥੧੧॥
Jih ṯe upji▫o nĝnkĝ līn ṯĝhi mai mĝn. ((11))
Believe it - you shall merge once again into the One, O Nanak, from whom you originated. ((11))
ਘਟ ਘਟ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਜੂ ਬਸੈ ਸੰਤਨ ਕਹਿਓ ਪ੝ਕਾਰਿ ॥
Gẖat gẖat mai har jū basai sanṯan kahi▫o pukĝr.
The Dear Lord abides in each and every heart; the Saints proclaim this as true.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਹ ਭਜ੝ ਮਨਾ ਭਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਉਤਰਹਿ ਪਾਰਿ ॥੧੨॥
Kaho Nĝnak ṯih bẖaj manĝ bẖa▫o niḝẖ uṯrėh pĝr. ((12))
Says Nanak, meditate and vibrate upon Him, and you shall cross over the terrifying world-ocean. ((12))
ਸ੝ਖ੝ ਦ੝ਖ੝ ਜਿਹ ਪਰਸੈ ਨਹੀ ਲੋਭ੝ ਮੋਹ੝ ਅਭਿਮਾਨ੝ ॥
Sukẖ ḝukẖ jih parsai nahī lobẖ moh abẖimĝn.
One who is not touched by pleasure or pain, greed, emotional attachment and egotistical pride -
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨ੝ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਸੋ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥੧੩॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ so mūraṯ bẖagvĝn. ((13))
says Nanak, listen, mind: he is the very image of God. ((13))
ਉਸਤਤਿ ਨਿੰਦਿਆ ਨਾਹਿ ਜਿਹਿ ਕੰਚਨ ਲੋਹ ਸਮਾਨਿ ॥
Usṯaṯ ninḝi▫ĝ nĝhi jihi kancẖan loh samĝn.
One who is beyond praise and slander, who looks upon gold and iron alike -
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨਿ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਮ੝ਕਤਿ ਤਾਹਿ ਤੈ ਜਾਨਿ ॥੧੪॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ mukaṯ ṯĝhi ṯai jĝn. ((14))
says Nanak, listen, mind: know that such a person is liberated. ((14))
ਹਰਖ੝ ਸੋਗ੝ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਨਹੀ ਬੈਰੀ ਮੀਤ ਸਮਾਨਿ ॥
Harakẖ sog jĝ kai nahī bairī mīṯ samĝn.
One who is not affected by pleasure or pain, who looks upon friend and enemy alike -
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨਿ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਮ੝ਕਤਿ ਤਾਹਿ ਤੈ ਜਾਨਿ ॥੧੫॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ mukaṯ ṯĝhi ṯai jĝn. ((15))
says Nanak, listen, mind: know that such a person is liberated. ((15))
ਭੈ ਕਾਹੂ ਕਉ ਦੇਤ ਨਹਿ ਨਹਿ ਭੈ ਮਾਨਤ ਆਨ ॥
Bẖai kĝhū ka▫o ḝeṯ nėh nėh bẖai mĝnaṯ ĝn.
One who does not frighten anyone, and who is not afraid of anyone else -
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨਿ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਤਾਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਿ ॥੧੬॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ gi▫ĝnī ṯĝhi bakẖĝn. ((16))
says Nanak, listen, mind: call him spiritually wise. ((16))
ਜਿਹਿ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਸਗਲੀ ਤਜੀ ਲੀਓ ਭੇਖ ਬੈਰਾਗ ॥
Jihi bikẖi▫ĝ saglī ṯajī lī▫o bẖekẖ bairĝg.
One who has forsaken all sin and corruption, who wears the robes of neutral detachment -
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨ੝ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਤਿਹ ਨਰ ਮਾਥੈ ਭਾਗ੝ ॥੧੭॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ ṯih nar mĝthai bẖĝg. ((17))
says Nanak, listen, mind: good destiny is written on his forehead. ((17))
ਜਿਹਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਮਤਾ ਤਜੀ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਭਇਓ ਉਦਾਸ੝ ॥
Jihi mĝ▫i▫ĝ mamṯĝ ṯajī sabẖ ṯe bẖa▫i▫o uḝĝs.
One who renounces Maya and possessiveness and is detached from everything -
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨ੝ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਤਿਹ ਘਟਿ ਬ੝ਰਹਮ ਨਿਵਾਸ੝ ॥੧੮॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ ṯih gẖat barahm nivĝs. ((18))
says Nanak, listen, mind: God abides in his heart. ((18))
ਜਿਹਿ ਪ੝ਰਾਨੀ ਹਉਮੈ ਤਜੀ ਕਰਤਾ ਰਾਮ੝ ਪਛਾਨਿ ॥
Jihi parĝnī ha▫umai ṯajī karṯĝ rĝm pacẖẖĝn.
That mortal, who forsakes egotism, and realizes the Creator Lord -
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਵਹ੝ ਮ੝ਕਤਿ ਨਰ੝ ਇਹ ਮਨ ਸਾਚੀ ਮਾਨ੝ ॥੧੯॥
Kaho Nĝnak vahu mukaṯ nar ih man sĝcẖī mĝn. ((19))
says Nanak, that person is liberated; O mind, know this as true. ((19))
ਭੈ ਨਾਸਨ ਦ੝ਰਮਤਿ ਹਰਨ ਕਲਿ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮ੝ ॥
Bẖai nĝsan ḝurmaṯ haran kal mai har ko nĝm.
In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Name of the Lord is the Destroyer of fear, the Eradicator of evil-mindedness.
ਨਿਸਿ ਦਿਨ੝ ਜੋ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਜੈ ਸਫਲ ਹੋਹਿ ਤਿਹ ਕਾਮ ॥੨੦॥
Nis ḝin jo Nĝnak bẖajai safal hohi ṯih kĝm. ((20))
Night and day, O Nanak, whoever vibrates and meditates on the Lord's Name, sees all of his works brought to fruition. ((20))
ਜਿਹਬਾ ਗ੝ਨ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਭਜਹ੝ ਕਰਨ ਸ੝ਨਹ੝ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ੝ ॥
Jihbĝ gun gobinḝ bẖajahu karan sunhu har nĝm.
Vibrate with your tongue the Glorious Praises of the Lord of the Universe; with your ears, hear the Lord's Name.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨਿ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਪਰਹਿ ਨ ਜਮ ਕੈ ਧਾਮ ॥੨੧॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ parėh na jam kai ḝẖĝm. ((21))
Says Nanak, listen, man: you shall not have to go to the house of Death. ((21))
ਜੋ ਪ੝ਰਾਨੀ ਮਮਤਾ ਤਜੈ ਲੋਭ ਮੋਹ ਅਹੰਕਾਰ ॥
Jo parĝnī mamṯĝ ṯajai lobẖ moh ahaŉkĝr.
That mortal who renounces possessiveness, greed, emotional attachment and egotism -
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਆਪਨ ਤਰੈ ਅਉਰਨ ਲੇਤ ਉਧਾਰ ॥੨੨॥
Kaho Nĝnak ĝpan ṯarai a▫uran leṯ uḝẖĝr. ((22))
says Nanak, he himself is saved, and he saves many others as well. ((22))
ਜਿਉ ਸ੝ਪਨਾ ਅਰ੝ ਪੇਖਨਾ ਝਸੇ ਜਗ ਕਉ ਜਾਨਿ ॥
Ji▫o supnĝ ar pekẖnĝ aise jag ka▫o jĝn.
Like a dream and a show, so is this world, you must know.
ਇਨ ਮੈ ਕਛ੝ ਸਾਚੋ ਨਹੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨ੝ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥੨੩॥
In mai kacẖẖ sĝcẖo nahī Nĝnak bin bẖagvĝn. ((23))
None of this is true, O Nanak, without God. ((23))
ਨਿਸਿ ਦਿਨ੝ ਮਾਇਆ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਪ੝ਰਾਨੀ ਡੋਲਤ ਨੀਤ ॥
Nis ḝin mĝ▫i▫ĝ kĝrne parĝnī dolaṯ nīṯ.
Night and day, for the sake of Maya, the mortal wanders constantly.
ਕੋਟਨ ਮੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਕੋਊ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ੝ ਜਿਹ ਚੀਤਿ ॥੨੪॥
Kotan mai Nĝnak ko▫ū nĝrĝ▫in jih cẖīṯ. ((24))
Among millions, O Nanak, there is scarcely anyone, who keeps the Lord in his consciousness. ((24))
ਜੈਸੇ ਜਲ ਤੇ ਬ੝ਦਬ੝ਦਾ ਉਪਜੈ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਨੀਤ ॥
Jaise jal ṯe buḝbuḝĝ upjai binsai nīṯ.
As the bubbles in the water well up and disappear again,
ਜਗ ਰਚਨਾ ਤੈਸੇ ਰਚੀ ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨਿ ਮੀਤ ॥੨੫॥
Jag racẖnĝ ṯaise racẖī kaho Nĝnak sun mīṯ. ((25))
so is the universe created; says Nanak, listen, O my friend! ((25))
ਪ੝ਰਾਨੀ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਚੇਤਈ ਮਦਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੈ ਅੰਧ੝ ॥
Parĝnī kacẖẖū na cẖeṯ▫ī maḝ mĝ▫i▫ĝ kai anḝẖ.
The mortal does not remember the Lord, even for a moment; he is blinded by the wine of Maya.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨ੝ ਹਰਿ ਭਜਨ ਪਰਤ ਤਾਹਿ ਜਮ ਫੰਧ ॥੨੬॥
Kaho Nĝnak bin har bẖajan paraṯ ṯĝhi jam fanḝẖ. ((26))
Says Nanak, without meditating on the Lord, he is caught by the noose of Death. ((26))
ਜਉ ਸ੝ਖ ਕਉ ਚਾਹੈ ਸਦਾ ਸਰਨਿ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਲੇਹ ॥
Ja▫o sukẖ ka▫o cẖĝhai saḝĝ saran rĝm kī leh.
If you yearn for eternal peace, then seek the Sanctuary of the Lord.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨਿ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਦ੝ਰਲਭ ਮਾਨ੝ਖ ਦੇਹ ॥੨੭॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ ḝurlabẖ mĝnukẖ ḝeh. ((27))
Says Nanak, listen, mind: this human body is difficult to obtain. ((27))
ਮਾਇਆ ਕਾਰਨਿ ਧਾਵਹੀ ਮੂਰਖ ਲੋਗ ਅਜਾਨ ॥
Mĝ▫i▫ĝ kĝran ḝẖĝvhī mūrakẖ log ajĝn.
For the sake of Maya, the fools and ignorant people run all around.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨ੝ ਹਰਿ ਭਜਨ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਨਮ੝ ਸਿਰਾਨ ॥੨੮॥
Kaho Nĝnak bin har bẖajan birthĝ janam sirĝn. ((28))
Says Nanak, without meditating on the Lord, life passes away uselessly. ((28))
ਜੋ ਪ੝ਰਾਨੀ ਨਿਸਿ ਦਿਨ੝ ਭਜੈ ਰੂਪ ਰਾਮ ਤਿਹ ਜਾਨ੝ ॥
Jo parĝnī nis ḝin bẖajai rūp rĝm ṯih jĝn.
That mortal who meditates and vibrates upon the Lord night and day - know him to be the embodiment of the Lord.
3

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Top : Read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji page 1428
ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਹਰਿ ਅੰਤਰ੝ ਨਹੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਚੀ ਮਾਨ੝ ॥੨੯॥
Har jan har anṯar nahī Nĝnak sĝcẖī mĝn. ((29))
There is no difference between the Lord and the humble servant of the Lord; O Nanak, know this as true. ((29))
ਮਨ੝ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੈ ਫਧਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਬਿਸਰਿਓ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਨਾਮ੝ ॥
Man mĝ▫i▫ĝ mai faḝẖ rahi▫o bisri▫o gobinḝ nĝm.
The mortal is entangled in Maya; he has forgotten the Name of the Lord of the Universe.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨ੝ ਹਰਿ ਭਜਨ ਜੀਵਨ ਕਉਨੇ ਕਾਮ ॥੩੦॥
Kaho Nĝnak bin har bẖajan jīvan ka▫une kĝm. ((30))
Says Nanak, without meditating on the Lord, what is the use of this human life? ((30))
ਪ੝ਰਾਨੀ ਰਾਮ੝ ਨ ਚੇਤਈ ਮਦਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੈ ਅੰਧ੝ ॥
Parĝnī rĝm na cẖeṯ▫ī maḝ mĝ▫i▫ĝ kai anḝẖ.
The mortal does not think of the Lord; he is blinded by the wine of Maya.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਭਜਨ ਬਿਨ੝ ਪਰਤ ਤਾਹਿ ਜਮ ਫੰਧ ॥੩੧॥
Kaho Nĝnak har bẖajan bin paraṯ ṯĝhi jam fanḝẖ. ((31))
Says Nanak, without meditating on the Lord, he is caught in the noose of Death. ((31))
ਸ੝ਖ ਮੈ ਬਹ੝ ਸੰਗੀ ਭਝ ਦ੝ਖ ਮੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
Sukẖ mai baho sangī bẖa▫e ḝukẖ mai sang na ko▫e.
In good times, there are many companions around, but in bad times, there is no one at all.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਭਜ੝ ਮਨਾ ਅੰਤਿ ਸਹਾਈ ਹੋਇ ॥੩੨॥
Kaho Nĝnak har bẖaj manĝ anṯ sahĝ▫ī ho▫e. ((32))
Says Nanak, vibrate, and meditate on the Lord; He shall be your only Help and Support in the end. ((32))
ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਭਰਮਤ ਫਿਰਿਓ ਮਿਟਿਓ ਨ ਜਮ ਕੋ ਤ੝ਰਾਸ੝ ॥
Janam janam bẖarmaṯ firi▫o miti▫o na jam ko ṯarĝs.
Mortals wander lost and confused through countless lifetimes; their fear of death is never removed.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਭਜ੝ ਮਨਾ ਨਿਰਭੈ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਬਾਸ੝ ॥੩੩॥
Kaho Nĝnak har bẖaj manĝ nirbẖai pĝvahi bĝs. ((33))
Says Nanak, vibrate and meditate on the Lord, and you shall dwell in the Fearless Lord. ((33))
ਜਤਨ ਬਹ੝ਤ੝ ਮੈ ਕਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਮਿਟਿਓ ਨ ਮਨ ਕੋ ਮਾਨ੝ ॥
Jaṯan bahuṯ mai kar rahi▫o miti▫o na man ko mĝn.
I have tried so many things, but the pride of my mind has not been dispelled.
ਦ੝ਰਮਤਿ ਸਿਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਫਧਿਓ ਰਾਖਿ ਲੇਹ੝ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥੩੪॥
Ḏurmaṯ si▫o Nĝnak faḝẖi▫o rĝkẖ leho bẖagvĝn. ((34))
I am engrossed in evil-mindedness, Nanak. O God, please save me! ((34))
ਬਾਲ ਜ੝ਆਨੀ ਅਰ੝ ਬਿਰਧਿ ਫ੝ਨਿ ਤੀਨਿ ਅਵਸਥਾ ਜਾਨਿ ॥
Bĝl ju▫ĝnī ar biraḝẖ fun ṯīn avasthĝ jĝn.
Childhood, youth and old age - know these as the three stages of life.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਭਜਨ ਬਿਨ੝ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਮਾਨ੝ ॥੩੫॥
Kaho Nĝnak har bẖajan bin birthĝ sabẖ hī mĝn. ((35))
Says Nanak, without meditating on the Lord, everything is useless; you must appreciate this. ((35))
ਕਰਣੋ ਹ੝ਤੋ ਸ੝ ਨਾ ਕੀਓ ਪਰਿਓ ਲੋਭ ਕੈ ਫੰਧ ॥
Karṇo huṯo so nĝ kī▫o pari▫o lobẖ kai fanḝẖ.
You have not done what you should have done; you are entangled in the web of greed.
ਨਾਨਕ ਸਮਿਓ ਰਮਿ ਗਇਓ ਅਬ ਕਿਉ ਰੋਵਤ ਅੰਧ ॥੩੬॥
Nĝnak sami▫o ram ga▫i▫o ab ki▫o rovaṯ anḝẖ. ((36))
Nanak, your time is past and gone; why are you crying now, you blind fool? ((36))
ਮਨ੝ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੈ ਰਮਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਨਿਕਸਤ ਨਾਹਿਨ ਮੀਤ ॥
Man mĝ▫i▫ĝ mai ram rahi▫o niksaṯ nĝhin mīṯ.
The mind is absorbed in Maya - it cannot escape it, my friend.
ਨਾਨਕ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਚਿਤ੝ਰ ਜਿਉ ਛਾਡਿਤ ਨਾਹਿਨ ਭੀਤਿ ॥੩੭॥
Nĝnak mūraṯ cẖiṯar ji▫o cẖẖĝdiṯ nĝhin bẖīṯ. ((37))
Nanak, it is like a picture painted on the wall - it cannot leave it. ((37))
ਨਰ ਚਾਹਤ ਕਛ੝ ਅਉਰ ਅਉਰੈ ਕੀ ਅਉਰੈ ਭਈ ॥
Nar cẖĝhaṯ kacẖẖ a▫or a▫urai kī a▫urai bẖa▫ī.
The man wishes for something, but something different happens.
ਚਿਤਵਤ ਰਹਿਓ ਠਗਉਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਫਾਸੀ ਗਲਿ ਪਰੀ ॥੩੮॥
Cẖiṯvaṯ rahi▫o ṯẖaga▫ur Nĝnak fĝsī gal parī. ((38))
He plots to deceive others, O Nanak, but he places the noose around his own neck instead. ((38))
ਜਤਨ ਬਹ੝ਤ ਸ੝ਖ ਕੇ ਕੀਝ ਦ੝ਖ ਕੋ ਕੀਓ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
Jaṯan bahuṯ sukẖ ke kī▫e ḝukẖ ko kī▫o na ko▫e.
People make all sorts of efforts to find peace and pleasure, but no one tries to earn pain.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨਿ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋ ਹੋਇ ॥੩੯॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ har bẖĝvai so ho▫e. ((39))
Says Nanak, listen, mind: whatever pleases God comes to pass. ((39))
ਜਗਤ੝ ਭਿਖਾਰੀ ਫਿਰਤ੝ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਕੋ ਦਾਤਾ ਰਾਮ੝ ॥
Jagaṯ bẖikẖĝrī firaṯ hai sabẖ ko ḝĝṯĝ rĝm.
The world wanders around begging, but the Lord is the Giver of all.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਨ ਸਿਮਰ੝ ਤਿਹ ਪੂਰਨ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਕਾਮ ॥੪੦॥
Kaho Nĝnak man simar ṯih pūran hovėh kĝm. ((40))
Says Nanak, meditate in remembrance on Him, and all your works will be successful. ((40))
ਝੂਠੈ ਮਾਨ੝ ਕਹਾ ਕਰੈ ਜਗ੝ ਸ੝ਪਨੇ ਜਿਉ ਜਾਨ੝ ॥
Jẖūṯẖai mĝn kahĝ karai jag supne ji▫o jĝn.
Why do you take such false pride in yourself? You must know that the world is just a dream.
ਇਨ ਮੈ ਕਛ੝ ਤੇਰੋ ਨਹੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਹਿਓ ਬਖਾਨਿ ॥੪੧॥
In mai kacẖẖ ṯero nahī Nĝnak kahi▫o bakẖĝn. ((41))
None of this is yours; Nanak proclaims this truth. ((41))
ਗਰਬ੝ ਕਰਤ੝ ਹੈ ਦੇਹ ਕੋ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਛਿਨ ਮੈ ਮੀਤ ॥
Garab karaṯ hai ḝeh ko binsai cẖẖin mai mīṯ.
You are so proud of your body; it shall perish in an instant, my friend.
ਜਿਹਿ ਪ੝ਰਾਨੀ ਹਰਿ ਜਸ੝ ਕਹਿਓ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਹਿ ਜਗ੝ ਜੀਤਿ ॥੪੨॥
Jihi parĝnī har jas kahi▫o Nĝnak ṯihi jag jīṯ. ((42))
That mortal who chants the Praises of the Lord, O Nanak, conquers the world. ((42))
ਜਿਹ ਘਟਿ ਸਿਮਰਨ੝ ਰਾਮ ਕੋ ਸੋ ਨਰ੝ ਮ੝ਕਤਾ ਜਾਨ੝ ॥
Jih gẖat simran rĝm ko so nar mukṯĝ jĝn.
That person, who meditates in remembrance on the Lord in his heart, is liberated - know this well.
ਤਿਹਿ ਨਰ ਹਰਿ ਅੰਤਰ੝ ਨਹੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਚੀ ਮਾਨ੝ ॥੪੩॥
Ŧihi nar har anṯar nahī Nĝnak sĝcẖī mĝn. ((43))
There is no difference between that person and the Lord: O Nanak, accept this as the Truth. ((43))
ਝਕ ਭਗਤਿ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਜਿਹ ਪ੝ਰਾਨੀ ਕੈ ਨਾਹਿ ਮਨਿ ॥
Ėk bẖagaṯ bẖagvĝn jih parĝnī kai nĝhi man.
That person, who does not feel devotion to God in his mind -
ਜੈਸੇ ਸੂਕਰ ਸ੝ਆਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਾਨੋ ਤਾਹਿ ਤਨ੝ ॥੪੪॥
Jaise sūkar su▫ĝn Nĝnak mĝno ṯĝhi ṯan. ((44))
O Nanak, know that his body is like that of a pig, or a dog. ((44))
ਸ੝ਆਮੀ ਕੋ ਗ੝ਰਿਹ੝ ਜਿਉ ਸਦਾ ਸ੝ਆਨ ਤਜਤ ਨਹੀ ਨਿਤ ॥
Su▫ĝmī ko garihu ji▫o saḝĝ su▫ĝn ṯajaṯ nahī niṯ.
A dog never abandons the home of his master.
ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਜਉ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਹ੝ਇ ਇਕ ਚਿਤਿ ॥੪੫॥
Nĝnak ih biḝẖ har bẖaja▫o ik man hu▫e ik cẖiṯ. ((45))
O Nanak, in just the same way, vibrate, and meditate on the Lord, single-mindedly, with one-pointed consciousness. ((45))
ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਅਰ੝ ਦਾਨ ਕਰਿ ਮਨ ਮੈ ਧਰੈ ਗ੝ਮਾਨ੝ ॥
Ŧirath baraṯ ar ḝĝn kar man mai ḝẖarai gumĝn.
Those who make pilgrimages to sacred shrines, observe ritualistic fasts and make donations to charity while still taking pride in their minds -
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਹਫਲ ਜਾਤ ਤਿਹ ਜਿਉ ਕ੝ੰਚਰ ਇਸਨਾਨ੝ ॥੪੬॥
Nĝnak nihfal jĝṯ ṯih ji▫o kuncẖar isnĝn. ((46))
O Nanak, their actions are useless, like the elephant, who takes a bath, and then rolls in the dust. ((46))
ਸਿਰ੝ ਕੰਪਿਓ ਪਗ ਡਗਮਗੇ ਨੈਨ ਜੋਤਿ ਤੇ ਹੀਨ ॥
Sir kampi▫o pag dagmage nain joṯ ṯe hīn.
The head shakes, the feet stagger, and the eyes become dull and weak.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਭਈ ਤਊ ਨ ਹਰਿ ਰਸਿ ਲੀਨ ॥੪੭॥
Kaho Nĝnak ih biḝẖ bẖa▫ī ṯa▫ū na har ras līn. ((47))
Says Nanak, this is your condition. And even now, you have not savored the sublime essence of the Lord. ((47))
4

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Top : Read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji page 1429
ਨਿਜ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖਿਓ ਜਗਤ੝ ਮੈ ਕੋ ਕਾਹੂ ਕੋ ਨਾਹਿ ॥
Nij kar ḝekẖi▫o jagaṯ mai ko kĝhū ko nĝhi.
I had looked upon the world as my own, but no one belongs to anyone else.
ਨਾਨਕ ਥਿਰ੝ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਹੈ ਤਿਹ ਰਾਖੋ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ॥੪੮॥
Nĝnak thir har bẖagaṯ hai ṯih rĝkẖo man mĝhi. ((48))
O Nanak, only devotional worship of the Lord is permanent; enshrine this in your mind. ((48))
ਜਗ ਰਚਨਾ ਸਭ ਝੂਠ ਹੈ ਜਾਨਿ ਲੇਹ੝ ਰੇ ਮੀਤ ॥
Jag racẖnĝ sabẖ jẖūṯẖ hai jĝn leho re mīṯ.
The world and its affairs are totally false; know this well, my friend.
ਕਹਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਥਿਰ੝ ਨਾ ਰਹੈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਲੂ ਕੀ ਭੀਤਿ ॥੪੯॥
Kahi Nĝnak thir nĝ rahai ji▫o bĝlū kī bẖīṯ. ((49))
Says Nanak, it is like a wall of sand; it shall not endure. ((49))
ਰਾਮ੝ ਗਇਓ ਰਾਵਨ੝ ਗਇਓ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਬਹ੝ ਪਰਵਾਰ੝ ॥
Rĝm ga▫i▫o rĝvan ga▫i▫o jĝ ka▫o baho parvĝr.
Raam Chand passed away, as did Raawan, even though he had lots of relatives.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਥਿਰ੝ ਕਛ੝ ਨਹੀ ਸ੝ਪਨੇ ਜਿਉ ਸੰਸਾਰ੝ ॥੫੦॥
Kaho Nĝnak thir kacẖẖ nahī supne ji▫o sansĝr. ((50))
Says Nanak, nothing lasts forever; the world is like a dream. ((50))
ਚਿੰਤਾ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਕੀਜੀਝ ਜੋ ਅਨਹੋਨੀ ਹੋਇ ॥
Cẖinṯĝ ṯĝ kī kījī▫ai jo anhonī ho▫e.
People become anxious, when something unexpected happens.
ਇਹ੝ ਮਾਰਗ੝ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਕੋ ਨਾਨਕ ਥਿਰ੝ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥੫੧॥
Ih mĝrag sansĝr ko Nĝnak thir nahī ko▫e. ((51))
This is the way of the world, O Nanak; nothing is stable or permanent. ((51))
ਜੋ ਉਪਜਿਓ ਸੋ ਬਿਨਸਿ ਹੈ ਪਰੋ ਆਜ੝ ਕੈ ਕਾਲਿ ॥
Jo upji▫o so binas hai paro ĝj kai kĝl.
Whatever has been created shall be destroyed; everyone shall perish, today or tomorrow.
ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਗ੝ਨ ਗਾਇ ਲੇ ਛਾਡਿ ਸਗਲ ਜੰਜਾਲ ॥੫੨॥
Nĝnak har gun gĝ▫e le cẖẖĝd sagal janjĝl. ((52))
O Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, and give up all other entanglements. ((52))
ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
Ḏohrĝ.
Dohraa:
ਬਲ੝ ਛ੝ਟਕਿਓ ਬੰਧਨ ਪਰੇ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਹੋਤ ਉਪਾਇ ॥
Bal cẖẖutki▫o banḝẖan pare kacẖẖū na hoṯ upĝ▫e.
My strength is exhausted, and I am in bondage; I cannot do anything at all.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਅਬ ਓਟ ਹਰਿ ਗਜ ਜਿਉ ਹੋਹ੝ ਸਹਾਇ ॥੫੩॥
Kaho Nĝnak ab ot har gaj ji▫o hohu sahĝ▫e. ((53))
Says Nanak, now, the Lord is my Support; He will help me, as He did the elephant. ((53))
ਬਲ੝ ਹੋਆ ਬੰਧਨ ਛ੝ਟੇ ਸਭ੝ ਕਿਛ੝ ਹੋਤ ਉਪਾਇ ॥
Bal ho▫ĝ banḝẖan cẖẖute sabẖ kicẖẖ hoṯ upĝ▫e.
My strength has been restored, and my bonds have been broken; now, I can do everything.
ਨਾਨਕ ਸਭ੝ ਕਿਛ੝ ਤ੝ਮਰੈ ਹਾਥ ਮੈ ਤ੝ਮ ਹੀ ਹੋਤ ਸਹਾਇ ॥੫੪॥
Nĝnak sabẖ kicẖẖ ṯumrai hĝth mai ṯum hī hoṯ sahĝ▫e. ((54))
Nanak: everything is in Your hands, Lord; You are my Helper and Support. ((54))
ਸੰਗ ਸਖਾ ਸਭਿ ਤਜਿ ਗਝ ਕੋਊ ਨ ਨਿਬਹਿਓ ਸਾਥਿ ॥
Sang sakẖĝ sabẖ ṯaj ga▫e ko▫ū na nib▫hi▫o sĝth.
My associates and companions have all deserted me; no one remains with me.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹ ਬਿਪਤਿ ਮੈ ਟੇਕ ਝਕ ਰਘ੝ਨਾਥ ॥੫੫॥
Kaho Nĝnak ih bipaṯ mai tek ek ragẖunĝth. ((55))
Says Nanak, in this tragedy, the Lord alone is my Support. ((55))
ਨਾਮ੝ ਰਹਿਓ ਸਾਧੂ ਰਹਿਓ ਰਹਿਓ ਗ੝ਰ੝ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ੝ ॥
Nĝm rahi▫o sĝḝẖū rahi▫o rahi▫o gur gobinḝ.
The Naam remains; the Holy Saints remain; the Guru, the Lord of the Universe, remains.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹ ਜਗਤ ਮੈ ਕਿਨ ਜਪਿਓ ਗ੝ਰ ਮੰਤ੝ ॥੫੬॥
Kaho Nĝnak ih jagaṯ mai kin japi▫o gur manṯ. ((56))
Says Nanak, how rare are those who chant the Guru's Mantra in this world. ((56))
ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ੝ ਉਰ ਮੈ ਗਹਿਓ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਸਮ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥
Rĝm nĝm ur mai gahi▫o jĝ kai sam nahī ko▫e.
I have enshrined the Lord's Name within my heart; there is nothing equal to it.
ਜਿਹ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਸੰਕਟ ਮਿਟੈ ਦਰਸ੝ ਤ੝ਹਾਰੋ ਹੋਇ ॥੫੭॥੧॥
Jih simraṯ sankat mitai ḝaras ṯuhĝro ho▫e. ((57)(1))
Meditating in remembrance on it, my troubles are taken away; I have received the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. ((57)(1))


Posted many shabads through out Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, seperated by an empty line break.

Btw you can use search function to find word reincarnation however there are also lines in there which don't contain the word reincarnation but are related to it.

for e.g. "Says Nanak, listen, mind: this human body is difficult to obtain."

If you need more shabads I'll post them tomorrow.


----------



## Tejwant Singh

kggr001 ji,

It is very easy for anyone to copy and paste anything from the internet without giving it a second thought of what it is saying or if the literal translation meets the eye of Gurbani.

Please make your argument by stating what you claimed and in what context do you understand that claim with your own understanding?

I do not know if you have just searched the word reincarnation and copied and pasted the results here. It seems like that. It is rather impossible to have a discussion in this manner. I have no idea  what  these copied and pasted Shabads have to do with our discussion without your pointing out  what is being discussed through them.

You are wasting a lot of valuable bandwidth of this forum by copying and pasting in all different languages and without pointing out the point of discussion.

I urged you to give me your own understanding of the Shabad which states reincarnation is a Sikhi belief or is our Guru talking to those who have ingrained belief of reincarnation? 

Regarding your added comment in the previous post:



> Guru's even warn us so many time.
> Also it doesn't matter what practice one followes the goal is to be one with the lord.
> 
> The lords resides in everyone, however that person heart doesn't reside with god. Guru's were willing to give everything away to find there friend.



Most of it is  the Abrahamic thought process which has nothing to do with Sikhi.

And secondly, do you consider Ik Ong Kaar a personified deity?

Tejwant Singh


----------



## kggr001

Tejwant Singh said:


> kggr001 ji,
> 
> It is very easy for anyone to copy and paste anything from the internet without giving it a second thought of what it is saying or if the literal translation meets the eye of Gurbani.
> 
> Please make your argument by stating what you claimed and in what context do you understand that claim with your own understanding.
> 
> I do not know if you have just searched the word reincarnation and copied and pasted the results here. It seems like that. It is rather impossible to have a discussion in this manner. I have no idea  what  these copied and pasted Shabads have to do with our discussion without your pointing out  what is being discussed through them.
> 
> You are wasting a lot of valuable bandwidth of this forum by copying and pasting in all different languages and without pointing out the point of discussion.
> 
> I urged you to give me your own understanding of the Shabad which states reincarnation is a Sikhi belief or is our Guru talking to those who have ingrained belief of reincarnation?
> 
> Regarding your added comment in the previous post:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of it is  the Abrahamic thought process which is nothing to do with Sikhi.
> 
> And secondly, do you consider Ik Ong Kaar a personified diety?
> 
> Tejwant Singh




You asked me for Shabad and I gave you. Since you asked for whole shabad 
thats the reason I pasted it whole, Guru is clearly talking about reincarnation in the way that we do get born again. Try to read some of it.

If you want to have a discussion then don't ask for the whole shabad because it's usually very large. I can point some out if you want. But that will be tomarrow and not today.

Maybe I misunderstood the meaning of Whole Shabad in that case I apologize. I've never posted such large Shabads before.

Also I don't believe Ik Ong Kaar to be a personified deity. I do believe that he is beyond our comprehesion, however I do believe one can experience him. We can see his greatness everywhere in each and everything.

I believe Ik Ong Kaar is nothing and everything thats all I can say. If you try to personify him he will come over as nothing you can waste you entire live personifying Ik ong kaar. One simply won't be able to do that if you do that then that Ik ong kaar doesn't corresponds to the one in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, When one does realize him then he is everything in a non personified way. You will see him in everything(Don't take this last line literaly).

Good night


----------



## Tejwant Singh

kggr001 ji,

I will wait for your personal understanding  as asked before of the Shabad about reincarnation tomorrow.

Good Night.


----------



## Tejwant Singh

Abneet said:


> Just curious, If Sikhi doesn't believe in reincarnation then what do we believe happens to us afterlife...?



The simple answer for every Sikh is, "I do not know".

In case you want to learn more about it, then please cultivate your personal understanding of the Shabad by our 5th Guru on page 885 of the SGGS.

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ 

ਪਵਨੈ ਮਹਿ ਪਵਨੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥  Pavnai mėh pavan samā▫i▫ā.

There are many Shabads with the similar message in the SGGS, our only Guru.


----------



## Abneet

Tejwant Singh said:


> The simple answer for every Sikh is, "I do not know".
> 
> In case you want to learn more about it, then please cultivate your personal understanding of the Shabad by our 5th Guru on page 885 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
> 
> ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫
> 
> ਪਵਨੈ ਮਹਿ ਪਵਨੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥  Pavnai mėh pavan samā▫i▫ā.
> 
> There are many Shabads with the similar message in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru.



Lets say reincarnation wasn't part of Sikhi. Do we believe that all sikhs who accept GGS go to heaven or go into eternal pit of hell? I'm pretty sure we don't. There is no real concept of heaven and hell in Sikhi. There is sachkhand etc.. Sikhi has a different stance on afterlife. The only thing goes with you afterlife is Naam because thats what we came into this world for to merge back with the One. If we fail we get punished and retry again. Sort of like a game huh.

Now the word reincarnated is mentioned 81 times in GGS. You can't twist Bani. The way I see it is reincarnation is a Sikhi belief.


----------



## Tejwant Singh

Abneet said:


> Lets say reincarnation wasn't part of Sikhi. Do we believe that all sikhs who accept GGS go to heaven or go into eternal pit of hell? I'm pretty sure we don't. There is no real concept of heaven and hell in Sikhi. There is sachkhand etc.. Sikhi has a different stance on afterlife. The only thing goes with you afterlife is Naam because thats what we came into this world for to merge back with the One. If we fail we get punished and retry again. Sort of like a game huh.
> 
> Now the word reincarnated is mentioned 81 times in GGS. You can't twist Bani. The way I see it is reincarnation is a Sikhi belief.



For the first part of your post, I have no idea what you are talking about. I would like you to be more specific and clear of your thoughts on the subject/s.

On the second part, according to my knowledge, the word reincarnation is mentioned more than 81 times in the SGGS. According to me, it is mentioned 387 times if not more, but that is not the point.

I think you missed my post to kggr001 in which I did say,"Yes, Sikhi does talk about reincarnation in many Shabads because of the deeply held beliefs of this in Hinduism but in no Shabad does it claim it to be a Sikhi trait/belief but rather to the contrary".

By just reading the word 'reincarnation' hundreds of times in the SGGS, it is rather naive to conclude that it means Sikhi believes in it. As mentioned about the other Shabad on 885 about afterlife, I urge you to cultivate your personal understanding for the same. There are also many threads about reincarnation on SPN to help you enhance your knowledge about this subject as per Sikhi.

Tejwant Singh


----------



## Harkiran Kaur

Ut oh... the R word again....

So Sikhi doesn't believe in Heaven or in Hell (as in the Christian sense)
And it doesn't believe in Reaincarnation (as in the Hinduism sense)
But, Sikhi also doesn't believe that this life is 'IT' as in,.. you die and you're dust and that's it and everything you were - your 'being' is gone, erased... kaput and you become worm food.

So what's left?  

My take on reincarnation is a bit different... not in the sense that something separate migrates from one physical body to another like a ghost playing hop scotch... but if you understand that everything is really one thing... one base energy field... one base conscious energy field... that is ever manifesting reality through vibration... then its easier to grasp.  The concept of death itself is moot point because there really is only one reality.  Ik Onkar.  We are what's not real.... really... in the end - the physical us I mean.  The 'doer' inside is what's real.  The physical bodies are just characters being played (all of us) by the very same actor who also happens to be the director of this huge play we call reality. To merge back with the creator, in my belief, is to simply awaken to the fact that collectively we all ARE the one.  

There are several places in Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ where it tells us that once you realize your OWN true self (or that HE IS ME) what more is there to know.

Also keep in mind that reincarnation in the traditional sense, depends on linear time, but we know that the creator is outside of space and time... formless, self existent, beyond birth and death... so in essence everything we know to be in linear time must really be happening, happened, will happen all at once to the creator.  Kind of like us standing back looking at some cosmic disk, where all the information is stored in a fixed state.... until the program is run. But the only one who is true in the end, is the programmer.  

...funny how scientists are actually leaning towards a holographic universe theory too!


----------



## Harry Haller

There are plenty of threads on reincarnation that can be posted to for debate, please let us stick with meditation, kggr001 ji, I will post your shabads on one of those threads, please continue the subject there, thank you


----------



## Harry Haller

Sikhism, when it was started by our first Guru, appeared to be a rejection of many Vedic and Islamic practices of the time, the question is, is meditation in Sikhism contemplating the supreme, inner debating of Sikh philosophies, thinking about Bani and trying to understand bani, or is it more breathing, chanting, counting, and basically losing yourself to your inside, or some might say, trying to discover the inside, postures and nostril breathing are mentioned many times in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, to say it is not enough just to so that, but does it have any merit in Sikhism, is it blasphemy? Is it wrong for a Sikh to adopt Buddhist positions and mantras if it helps them get closer to God? 

Many would say no, of course not, why would it be, but then many would also point to the continuing dilution of core Sikhism, all roads do not lead to Rome, if they did, Sikhism would not be so different from all other major world religions, but it is, there is no denying that, and it is different because of the lack of pointless rituals, and some might say, pointless postures, however, does this then encompass going to the gym, or zumba, both involve postures and breathing to gain wellbeing, some might even say through pumping iron, one gets closer to God,


----------



## Abneet

harry haller said:


> There are plenty of threads on reincarnation that can be posted to for debate, please let us stick with meditation, kggr001 ji, I will post your shabads on one of those threads, please continue the subject there, thank you



We seriously went off on 3 different topics in one thread :sippingcoffeemunda:lol


----------



## Harry Haller

Abneet said:


> We seriously went off on 3 different topics in one thread :sippingcoffeemunda:lol



NK would not have allowed it, she was an excellent moderator, I am sure given time we will all learn to respect the thread and the topic in hand


----------



## chazSingh

In Reply to Respected Tejwant ji:

you asked for Gurbani proof of my previous thoughts:



> but i think behind the names, the methods, the same thing is at work...
> that same thing no one really understands (God) and they then come out  (Ego) to the public and say "my method works....this is the way"...
> 
> but what they don;t maybe realize is, that chuck all the methods out the  window, and what they are all probably doing is yearning for God in  quite an intense way...and it is that yearning and love that actually  made their spiritual progress...


I Have been reading the following gurbani and in my personal reflection on it, i feel it answers the questions that you ask...
if you feel otherwise then please feel free to respond...we can both learn from each other.

ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Bilaaval, Fifth Mehl:

ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਅਰਪਉ ਸਭੁ ਅਪਨਾ ॥
Body, mind, wealth and everything, I surrender to my Lord.
Surrendering all to Waheguru Ji is Key!

ਕਵਨ ਸੁ ਮਤਿ ਜਿਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਨਾ ॥੧॥
What is that wisdom, by which I may come to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har? ||1||
Anyone can chant shabad...who needs wisdom to chant it? therefore i believe this japna here refers to a very deep level of connection with Naam.

ਕਰਿ ਆਸਾ ਆਇਓ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮਾਗਨਿ ॥
Nurturing hope, I have come to beg from God.
No posture, no breathing technique can come close to the deep thirst and surrendering that come with an act of begging...*We don;t need to beg*...but that's what it sometimes feels like when that *thirst/tha LOVE* wells up so much that nothing seems to be quenching it...so you cry out!

ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਪੇਖਤ ਸੋਭਾ ਮੇਰੈ ਆਗਨਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Gazing upon You, the courtyard of my heart is embellished. ||1||Pause||
I cannot comment on this...i believe this is referring to something i have not yet been blessed to experience...but my imagination is spiralling out of control here...but it is mere imagination..nothing more..

ਅਨਿਕ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਉ ॥
Trying several methods, I reflect deeply upon the Lord.
so many methods...is it the method that is working the magic, or the 'reflecting on the lord'...people sit in postures, they try all sorts of mantras...but underneath all that maybe we are all just using this conscious power of 'reflecting' and 'contemplating'..which i am doing now 

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਇਸੁ ਮਨਹਿ ਉਧਾਰਉ ॥੨॥
In the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, this mind is saved. ||2||
reference to the mind again...control of the wandering mind is prevalent throughout gurbani as of utmost importance...


ਮਤਿ ਬੁਧਿ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ॥
I have neither intelligence, wisdom, common sense nor cleverness.
none of the above will help you meet the lord...therefore outer postures, and a million breathing techniques may help your physical health...but alone they have no use...

ਤਾ ਮਿਲੀਐ ਜਾ ਲਏ ਮਿਲਾਈ ॥੩॥
I meet You, only if You lead me to meet You. ||3||
only if He leads you to meet Him...He will will Guide you if you have that love and Thirst that is tearing you apart within...He will Guide you...you cannot seek Him successfully if He is not Guiding you...hence the first line...SURRENDERING TO HIM

ਨੈਨ ਸੰਤੋਖੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
My eyes are content, gazing upon the Blessed Vision of God's Darshan.
one needs to wander around aimlessly no more...behold him in evryone and everything, including yourself..

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਫਲੁ ਸੋ ਆਇਆ ॥੪॥੪॥੯॥
Says Nanak, such a life is fruitful and rewarding. ||4||4||9||


Try whatever methods you want...learn, develop, make mistakes, listen to your instinct...Waheguru Talks to you from within...

There are no methods to using your* God Given power of 'Attention'*..there are no methods to using you* God given power to 'Listen'*

He talks...yet I am *pre-occupied with my oh so busy life*...chasing for money, women, worldy delights...what chance have I got to hear His Sweet Bani within me...

Put your attention to the one thing we are Certain has come from Waheguru (SGGS Ji)...speak it, then listen...
Tell your mind..."dude, i am listening out for the voice of my Beloved Guru, quit thinking about women and your stupid unfulfilled desires for just a moment so i can concentrate for a second"

then just Gently listen 

There are many shabads in Gurbani telling us God is deep within our being, within our hearts...to lovingly put our attention there...to put our attention to the Shabad, to 'listen'...
these are NOT Methods...he gave us these powers...but we chose to use them for chasing around manifesting our desires with the 5 thieves firmly placed in our minds..

I can post some of them if you would like me to...
Sorry if this post is too long...they are just my humble opinions...i don;t claim to be a 'knower' of God...or hold a degree in Gurbani Studies...


----------



## Sherdil

I think I understand now. Chanting the name "Har Har", or any other name you call The One, is a way to feel personally connected to that entity. It's a way to say "I love you" and channel that emotion in a therapeutic way. No amount of knowledge can replicate that feeling. It has nothing to do with chakras or vibrating cells. It's simply a way to ease the pain felt by the separation between the soul-bride and her husband-lord. 

Guru ji would rather people chant the name "Har Har", than worship an idol of Vishnu.


----------



## Harry Haller

I think as Sikhs, we would like to think we show the utmost respect for other religions, but find it hard to show the same for divisions within our own religion. 

I would point to the continuing invasion of Vedicism in our religion as possibly the only explanation for this, it explains attitudes towards meditation, DG, reincarnation, Karma et al, however Sikhism,   I feel, should not be so rigid that we end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and as such, I think a level of tolerance must be displayed when dealing with concepts or facts that we do not agree with. Not everything is a conspiracy, not everything has the dark hand of agenda behind it, 

I am not a chanter nor do I meditate, but if it helps someone connect, and there is no proselytism, then I have no problem with it. It is like everything, it is about balance, if your Sikhism consists of nothing more than mantras, you may have a problem, but as a tool for introspection, good luck to you.


----------



## kggr001

Well said, there is nothing greater then one that reconizes the lord 
Chakra's, Vibrating Cells, Sidhi's, etc.. whatever they exist or not doesn't matter, we shouldn't think too much about them.

The division in our religion is there cause everyone interprets the followings in his/her own ways. Which is a normal thing. You sure can explain your believes, but you can't tell the others what one should believe or what he/she shouldn't believe in. One will only follow someones way of following fully(usually partly) if he/she sees truth in it.

You will feel like that your believes are truth, for the other it will feel like that his/her believes are the truth.


----------



## Tejwant Singh

Sherdil said:


> I think I understand now. Chanting the name "Har Har", or any other name you call The One, is a way to feel personally connected to that entity. It's a way to say "I love you" and channel that emotion in a therapeutic way. No amount of knowledge can replicate that feeling. It has nothing to do with chakras or vibrating cells. It's simply a way to ease the pain felt by the separation between the soul-bride and her husband-lord.
> 
> Guru ji would rather people chant the name "Har Har", than worship an idol of Vishnu.



Sherdil,

Guru Fateh,

It is not one or the other. Japnah in my opinion that I learnt from Gurbani through Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru means what Guru Nanak says in Jap,"Gaviei, Sunhiei Mann Rakhie Bhao, Dukh Bhar Har Sukh Ghar lei Jaih".  This the essence of Naam Japnah.

What good is repeating any word for hours does if we do not practice the teachings of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

For some, chanting may be a high which was for me too when I was part of the Dodra group for many years, but it is just a temporary high. People should take this temporary high, if they have not and kick start their Gurmat engine and move towards Gurmat horizons because idle running  of the engine will burst from its seams and hence will be wasted for naught.

The reason I left Dodra was the way people hugged each other, especially the men with the women which for me was very ungurmat and borderline sexual enticement.  Many women were seen giving massages to the so called honchos of the group during breaks which was uneasy for me and lastly, when a couple of women came to them with their marital problems, rather than having a conversation, they told them to parrot Vaheguru for hours and things would be fine. These cumulative things broke the camel's back, so to speak. 

A few months after I had left the group, it so happened that one of the honchos of the Dodra group from Calgary wearing full baana was imprisoned for 5 years for a rape of one of the group members.

Many in here just talk about this transitory high which is like crawling or staying on the position to run a marathon. If we do not come out of that posture to start walking and running, then it is futile, mechanical parroting and a feel good me-ism in my opinion.

Nothing more.

Let's follow Guru Nanak's message to the tee which is worth repeating  because our visionary Guru gave us the right recipe, formula, modus operandi and showed us what a true NAAM JAPNAH means.
"Gaviei, Sunhiei Mann Rakhie Bhao, Dukh Bhar Har Sukh Ghar lei Jaih". 

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh


----------



## Tejwant Singh

harry haller said:


> There are plenty of threads on reincarnation that can be posted to for debate, please let us stick with meditation, kggr001 ji, I will post your shabads on one of those threads, please continue the subject there, thank you



Harry ji,

I agree. 

I would urge the moderators to move these 'multiforkations' of the topics in their respective threads.

I must admit I am part of those culprits that have done that and I do apologise for that.

People who want to talk about reincarnation, or other subjects please post your thoughts under those threads which already exist or start another one with a new topic.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh


----------



## chazSingh

harry haller said:


> I think as Sikhs, we would like to think we show the utmost respect for other religions, but find it hard to show the same for divisions within our own religion.
> 
> I would point to the continuing invasion of Vedicism in our religion as possibly the only explanation for this, it explains attitudes towards meditation, DG, reincarnation, Karma et al, however Sikhism,   I feel, should not be so rigid that we end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and as such, I think a level of tolerance must be displayed when dealing with concepts or facts that we do not agree with. Not everything is a conspiracy, not everything has the dark hand of agenda behind it,
> 
> I am not a chanter nor do I meditate, but if it helps someone connect, and there is no proselytism, then I have no problem with it. It is like everything, it is about balance, if your Sikhism consists of nothing more than mantras, you may have a problem, but as a tool for introspection, good luck to you.



well said ji

The EGO knows best....question is who's EGO  mine or yours?
hence the divisions start...the fights begin...the boundaries are set..

all under the operation of the EGO...

if we are genuine truth seekers, then all we can do is just inspire each other...


----------



## kggr001

English Translation:

Ghawiyeh soenhiyeh man rakhiyeh phao.
Sing the praise of the Lord (recite His Name), listen to it, and let your mind be filled with His love.
Dukh par har sukh ghar lèh djaé.
(This way), we are relieved of pain and sorrow, and peace settles down in the mind.


Tejwant ji I do agree that there is no use in parroting Lord name without having him even in mind. It's just how the person chants the name of the lord. Also I believe there are multiple ways of chanting lord name. The praises of lord come out of the heart it's up to the person how he/she want to express them.


----------



## chazSingh

Tejwant Singh said:


> Sherdil,
> 
> Guru Fateh,
> 
> It is not one or the other. Japnah in my opinion that I learnt from Gurbani through Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru means what Guru Nanak says in Jap,"Gaviei, Sunhiei Mann Rakhie Bhao, Dukh Bhar Har Sukh Ghar lei Jaih".  This the essence of Naam Japnah.
> 
> What good is repeating any word for hours does if we do not practice the teachings of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?
> 
> For some, chanting may be a high which was for me too when I was part of the Dodra group for many years, but it is just a temporary high. People should take this temporary high, if they have not and kick start their Gurmat engine and move towards Gurmat horizons because idle running  of the engine will burst from its seams and hence will be wasted for naught.
> 
> The reason I left Dodra was the way people hugged each other, especially, the men with the women which for me was very ungurmat and borderline sexual enticement.  Many women were seen giving massages to the so called honchos of the group during breaks which was uneasy for me and lastly, when a couple of women came to them with their marital problems, rather than having a conversation, they told them to parrot Vaheguru for hours and things would be fine. These cumulative things broke the camel's back, so to speak.
> 
> A few months after I left the group,it so happened that one of the honchos of the Dodra group from Calgary wearing full baana was imprisoned for 5 years for a rape of one of the group members.
> 
> Many in here just talk about this transitory high which is like crawling or staying on the position to run a marathon. If we do not come out of that posture to start walking and running, then it is futile, mechanical parroting and a feel good me-ism in my opinion.
> 
> Nothing more.
> 
> Let's follow Guru Nanak's message to the tee which is worth repeating  because our visionary Guru gave us the right recipe, formula, modus operandi and showed us what a true NAAM JAPNAH means.
> "Gaviei, Sunhiei Mann Rakhie Bhao, Dukh Bhar Har Sukh Ghar lei Jaih".
> 
> Thanks & regards
> 
> Tejwant Singh



Tejwant ji,

i agree with what you say ji mostly  those are quite some experiences you speak of...thankfully i haven't fallen into the trap of such groups...



> Many in here just talk about this transitory high which is like crawling  or staying on the position to run a marathon. If we do not come out of  that posture to start walking and running, then it is futile, mechanical  parroting and a feel good me-ism in my opinion.


i don;t think anyone has spoken of any such transitory high...these are mere judgements by the ones that don;t agree with what we are doing..
as is all the *"If we do not come out of  that posture to start walking and running"* just mere judgement...

i mean do people really think that if someone meditates they do not crawl out of their cave (house), and participate in society? or do their seva? or aim to be a better person and kick the 5 thieves into touch?

seriously? 

the Shabads written in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were spoken by Waheguru and written in Guru ji...speaking them with the same love that God spoke them with is different to mindless parroting...

everyone needs that time to sit in peace and quite from the outside world...whether its meditating or a child that just wants to have that moments silence from the world shouting at it...

those silent moments are when we can reflect with full focus..when we can stop whilst the world is wlaking, and glance back at the voice calling us...the shabad within...

nothing i say would ever change your mind...only thing that changes your mind, is when you arm is taken by guru ji, and you think "Oh ****, this stuff is freaking real"


----------



## Tejwant Singh

Chaz Singh ji,

Guru fateh.

Thanks for the post and I happen to disagree with you in some of what you wrote because it is contradictory of what you have said earlier and also saying in this very post.



> i don;t think anyone has spoken of any such transitory high...these are mere judgements by the ones that don;t agree with what we are doing..
> as is all the *"If we do not come out of  that posture to start walking and running"* just mere judgement..


.

First, it is not a judgement which is a wrong word to use but an observation from the posts, especially yours. This is the reason I urged everyone recently not to make blanket statements about what one feels about meditation about everyone else but rather make it a point that it is one's personal experience only.



> i mean do people really think that if someone meditates they do not crawl out of their cave (house), and participate in society? or do their seva? or aim to be a better person and kick the 5 thieves into touch?
> 
> seriously?



Yes, because that is the way it is projected in their posts, especially yours. I am glad you are changing your stance now.



> the Shabads written in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were spoken by Waheguru and written in Guru ji...speaking them with the same love that God spoke them with is different to mindless parroting...



You know the difference very well between speaking and parroting/chanting. Let's stick to the point please.



> everyone needs that time to sit in peace and quite from the outside world...whether its meditating or a child that just wants to have that moments silence from the world shouting at it...



I agree, but one should choose one's own way to germinate that feeling. Hence, it is a personal experience, which can never be duplicated by anyone else.



> those silent moments are when we can reflect with full focus..when we can stop whilst the world is wlaking, and glance back at the voice calling us...the shabad within...



Once again, you are making a blanket statement as you have often done in the past. Please state this as you personal experience only. Not everyone may feel like you do which is exactly my point  and of this very interaction of ours and also when this thread started.



> nothing i say would ever change your mind...only thing that changes your mind, is when you arm is taken by guru ji, and you think "Oh ****, this stuff is freaking real"



Now, it is you who is judging by giving a blanket statement once again.  You do not know that and shall never know.

We are all here to interact and share our personal experiences We are not here to urge others to change their minds because we have posted something in this great forum. That is not our job.

Let each of us dance with our own inner music that we hear from the within.

Let's allow this courtesy to everyone. By doing that, we are able to reach our own bliss in a personal manner.

Thanks for the great post.

Tejwant Singh


----------



## Tejwant Singh

kggr001 said:


> English Translation:
> 
> Ghawiyeh soenhiyeh man rakhiyeh phao.
> Sing the praise of the Lord (recite His Name), listen to it, and let your mind be filled with His love.
> Dukh par har sukh ghar lèh djaé.
> (This way), we are relieved of pain and sorrow, and peace settles down in the mind.
> 
> 
> Tejwant ji I do agree that there is no use in parroting Lord name without having him even in mind. It's just how the person chants the name of the lord. Also I believe there are multiple ways of chanting lord name. The praises of lord come out of the heart it's up to the person how he/she want to express them.



kggr011 ji,


Exactly my point. It is a personal experience of the individual which may not be for all and this is the respect and courtesy needed towards all here.

Secondly,  you have posted the literal translation of the verse I posted. Please interpret it in your own words so we can all learn from it.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh


----------



## Sherdil

Tejwant Singh said:


> What good is repeating any word for hours does if we do not practice the teachings of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?



Tejwant ji, 

I agree that reading and understanding gurbani is the top priority for all Sikhs. We cannot call ourselves students if we don't study what our teacher says. 

I don't believe in repeating a word for hours. Such time can be better spent trying to understand gurbani. A single tuk can occupy one's attention for hours at end. 

But gurbani is a love poem. The way the gurus speak about God, it is evident that they are in love with him. I think they are also trying to get us to fall in love. When someone is in love, simply repeating the name of their lover can bring peace and contentment. When someone is in love, they think about their lover at all times. They feel pain when they are separated from their lover. 

In my opinion, what separates "meditation" in Sikhi from other forms of meditation (Zen Buddhism) is that Sikhi teaches us to foster love, whereas other forms of meditation teach people to kill emotion and become blank slates. Love, according to them, creates attachment. In Sikhi, we fall in love with Akaal (the timeless one). Being attached to something that is timeless is the only thing that is worth being attached to, as all other illusions of Maya are transient. 

Some people carry a picture of their lover in their wallet, or as a screen saver on their phone. Others may have a picture of their God. The point is that when they see that image, they are emotionally uplifted. It gets them through the day. Sikhi teaches that God has no form, so instead of a picture, we simply say the name. When I am feeling stressed, taking a deep breath and saying "Waheguru" makes me feel better. It's nothing more than that. I don't have to repeat anything in a closed room, hours on end. 

Bhul chuk maaf


----------



## kggr001

Sherdil said:


> Tejwant ji,
> 
> I agree that reading and understanding gurbani is the top priority for all Sikhs. We cannot call ourselves students if we don't study what our teacher says.
> 
> I don't believe in repeating a word for hours. Such time can be better spent trying to understand gurbani. A single tuk can occupy one's attention for hours at end.
> 
> But gurbani is a love poem. The way the gurus speak about God, it is evident that they are in love with him. I think they are also trying to get us to fall in love. When someone is in love, simply repeating the name of their lover can bring peace and contentment. When someone is in love, they think about their lover at all times. They feel pain when they are separated from their lover.
> 
> In my opinion, what separates "meditation" in Sikhi from other forms of meditation (Zen Buddhism) is that Sikhi teaches us to foster love, whereas other forms of meditation teach people to kill emotion and become blank slates. Love, according to them, creates attachment. In Sikhi, we fall in love with Akaal (the timeless one). Being attached to something that is timeless is the only thing that is worth being attached to, as all other illusions of Maya are transient.
> 
> Some people carry a picture of their lover in their wallet, or as a screen saver on their phone. Others may have a picture of their God. The point is that when they see that image, they are emotionally uplifted. It gets them through the day. Sikhi teaches that God has no form, so instead of a picture, we simply say the name. When I am feeling stressed, taking a deep breath and saying "Waheguru" makes me feel better. It's nothing more than that. I don't have to repeat anything in a closed room, hours on end.
> 
> Bhul chuk maaf



Wonderful post ji, what meditation in my personal expierience does is kill all the wordly attachments and I dont see Akaal as a worldy attachment. What meditation does for me is make me even feel closer to Akaal.

But I feel that not only by meditating, I also feel it when I do Sewa or read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or think about the transcendence of the lord. It's a moment where I do fall in love with god.

Meditation learns me to be focussed all the time, so my mind doesn't wander.
Sewa helps me to get self discipline.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji shows me a path I've to follow, it gives me gyaan and it motivates me on my journey.
Thinking about the Greatness of the lord, makes me feel connected and in love with the lord.

If one can't focuss on something without his mind wandering then thats not good. 
What Meditation does for me is free me from wordly attachments it bring me in a state where I feel very Aware of myself. It's a state where I'm free from all attachments and for me its the best state to feel connected to the lord, since my mind doesn't wander in that state.

Sewa helps me to build self displine, it helps me to control my greed, attachments, anger and mostly ego. It also helps me to feel connected with the lord. To control my lust I kinda fool myself by trying to see all woman as my sisters and mothers. However that doesn't work always for me, controlling lust is very hard I don't have a good method for that right now.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, is for me a place to get gyaan, it's so great that sometimes a few lines can make me think for hours, When I read about the love of Guru's and Bhagats towards the lord that is for me very very very motivating it  helps me to not stray from my path. 

.


----------



## Harry Haller

> But gurbani is a love poem. The way the gurus speak about God, it is evident that they are in love with him. I think they are also trying to get us to fall in love. When someone is in love, simply repeating the name of their lover can bring peace and contentment. When someone is in love, they think about their lover at all times. They feel pain when they are separated from their lover.



It is only evident that they are in love with 'him' from the Abrahamic english translations that we all have to suffer, in truth, I think that if god is everywhere and in everything, it is more about loving the creation of god rather than god. How can one love an energy, a force, a creative power? How can you carry a photo of a creative power, how can you name a creative power? There is no separation as god is in everything and everyone, even the most base and evil person is not separated, I think when we stop listening to god inside that is when we feel separated, but we are not, just not listening, not connecting, not walking in tune, not in consonance. 

what is the point of loving god, of chanting 'his' name, if you ignore the creation of god, can meditation be an hour watching an ant nest? Can one sit down and watch animals, trees, the weather, reveal themselves in all their glory, in all their fascination, can one not love these aspects of creation and just listen to god?



> In my opinion, what separates "meditation" in Sikhi from other forms of meditation (Zen Buddhism) is that Sikhi teaches us to foster love, whereas other forms of meditation teach people to kill emotion and become blank slates. Love, according to them, creates attachment. In Sikhi, we fall in love with Akaal (the timeless one). Being attached to something that is timeless is the only thing that is worth being attached to, as all other illusions of Maya are transient.



In effect what you are saying is that where other forms of meditation encourage you to leave the world, and thus creation, Sikh meditation would encourage you to interact with the world, with creation, so some might say that certain meditation is nothing more than escapism, rather than embracing creation. 

Sikhism is a pragmatic religion, the litmus test is crucial to an individuals interpretation of Sikhism, in my view, the bliss has nothing to do with remembering god, it is the after effect of living a truthful life, one does not get bliss just by thinking about god, (well I do not anyway, if others do, well that is anothers personal experience), one gets bliss by living truthfully, and reaping the benefits associated with such. One lives truthfully by listening to god, and acting as per gods facets as outlined in the Mool Mantra. 

my view only


----------



## Tejwant Singh

Sherdil said:


> Tejwant ji,
> 
> I agree that reading and understanding gurbani is the top priority for all Sikhs. We cannot call ourselves students if we don't study what our teacher says.
> 
> I don't believe in repeating a word for hours. Such time can be better spent trying to understand gurbani. A single tuk can occupy one's attention for hours at end.
> 
> But gurbani is a love poem. The way the gurus speak about God, it is evident that they are in love with him. I think they are also trying to get us to fall in love. When someone is in love, simply repeating the name of their lover can bring peace and contentment. When someone is in love, they think about their lover at all times. They feel pain when they are separated from their lover.
> 
> In my opinion, what separates "meditation" in Sikhi from other forms of meditation (Zen Buddhism) is that Sikhi teaches us to foster love, whereas other forms of meditation teach people to kill emotion and become blank slates. Love, according to them, creates attachment. In Sikhi, we fall in love with Akaal (the timeless one). Being attached to something that is timeless is the only thing that is worth being attached to, as all other illusions of Maya are transient.
> 
> Some people carry a picture of their lover in their wallet, or as a screen saver on their phone. Others may have a picture of their God. The point is that when they see that image, they are emotionally uplifted. It gets them through the day. Sikhi teaches that God has no form, so instead of a picture, we simply say the name. When I am feeling stressed, taking a deep breath and saying "Waheguru" makes me feel better. It's nothing more than that. I don't have to repeat anything in a closed room, hours on end.



Sherdil ji,

The whole SGGS is not a love poem but a love song. The stark difference between the two is that the former is recited whereas the latter is sung, hence the whole SGGS is written in Raags. Singing makes us dance from the within and we dance with the wow! and awe! factors of Ik Ong Kaar because The Source is the manifestation in all of them. And  here are the three parts that make us play hide and seek with the Creator's Creation:

1. Naam Japnah- Not parroting but our actions in the fruitful manners learnt through our inner dance with the help of singing.

2. Kirat Karni- The part which starts with the first droplet of milk from the mother's bosom, to the kindergarten, professional life and last but not the least, active participation in the householder's life by cultivating a good relationship with the spouse and raising the kids to be better than us as Sikhs.

3.Vand Kei Chaknah- After the first two steps, the only thing left is sharing goodness attained, with others;one's children, ilk and especially with the strangers.

We are attached to the timeless through its creation of tangible things of life like family and pitching in the society which is also His creation.

Carrying a picture of a lover is a great thing but  as Sikhs we are surrounded by IK Ong Kaar's picture. The world and beyond become our pocket folders for this picture album of the wonders!

I beg to differ with you about saying the name because the name becomes valueless. It is rather living every moment keep on realising  in mind,"Dukh Daroo, Sukh Rogh Baheyah" is living truthfully with him by holding his hand and relishing the odds of life because we are taught how to overcome them.

Sikhi is like  a cross-country/steeple chase and its beauty lies in tumbling down, getting up, dusting off and carry on, The scars of life that we are left with after the scabs fall off show us how this Sikhi journey has been relished because this special love is a two way street. Just keeping the picture of the lover in one's wallet makes us end up in cul de sac of life if we have not given any reason to our lover to take a peek of our picture  tucked in his/her wallet.

Tejwant Singh


----------



## kggr001

It's that one first have to realize lord first, you've to see him in each and everyone, when one sees a former murderer, rapist, pedo, etc. see that person in your eyes as someone strayed from the path, try to help that person to find the path, cause the lord also resides in his heart usually people start hating such person when they know who he/she is and what he/she did. The lord is already with us, unfortunately not everyone does realize that god is already with us, they try alot of things to find god. God is already with us. They are looking outside while god is inside us.

Like Akasha ji said, we are the algorithms, the creation is the software, the lord is the programmer. However we should keep in mind that the programmer is real and everything else one day will end. I'm not trying to say that we should see the creation as something completly unreal, we as algorithms have to play our part in the software(creation). But one has to realize this concept that he/she is part of the software. Thinking that way is called being super conscious. Because you see yourself as the second/third person. Instead of being controlled by the 5 thieves like a Marionette you have the strings in your own hand.


----------



## chazSingh

Tejwant Singh said:


> Yes, because that is the way it is projected in their posts, especially yours. I am glad you are changing your stance now.



Respected Tejwant ji...

changing my stance? lol so because i talk passionately about meditation on a topic about meditation on a forum...that means more than likely i do not have a wakeful life? no hobbies, no friends, no interest in Seva, helping the community, no life... is this your reasoning my good friend  

i'm glad i've somehow changed your mind on that evaluation ji...pheww 

coming to such conclusions is also 'a blanket statement'  as you so great fully point out so often ji.

maybe we can agree that we are as bad as each other...  i know i personally do fall into that trap...my bad

I still have a very strong Ego, susceptible to Lust, Anger, desire and greed...
i thank you for pointing my negative facets out for me...it's the greatest blessing to know where one must improve their personality...

God Bless ji


----------



## chazSingh

Kggr001 ji,

Do you have a T.V in your meditation Cave?i think i might get someone to install one for me...will allow us to see whats going on in the outside world from time to time...

ok, must now close my eyes...this daylight is starting to burn me...yikes


----------



## kggr001

chazSingh said:


> Kggr001 ji,
> 
> Do you have a T.V in your meditation Cave?i think i might get someone to install one for me...will allow us to see whats going on in the outside world from time to time...
> 
> ok, must now close my eyes...this daylight is starting to burn me...yikes



I do have a T.V, and I do watch it alot. And also pretty much know whats going on in the outside world 

I won't post on this forums for while, I've to admit I do learn alot, however posting on these forums is also boosting my ego, it's like I stop listening to the other, it's all about me me me, I always feel like that I'm right, right now I'm not strong enough to face it directly. I might return if I ever manage to control this.


----------



## Harry Haller

> I won't post on this forums for while, I've to admit I do learn alot, however these forums are also boosting my ego, right now I'm not strong enough to face it directly.



I have read this several times and cannot make head or tail of what you are trying to say, I hope you carry on posting, we are all here to learn from each other


----------



## Harry Haller

Chazji, we are all constantly changing, I have changed, you have changed, surely change, good change, is all part of Sikhism, and living and learning. 

I have also noted that your posts are starting to be about more than meditation, just as mine are more about accepting such, of course we are all changing, what would be the point otherwise.


----------



## chazSingh

harry haller said:


> Chazji, we are all constantly changing, I have changed, you have changed, surely change, good change, is all part of Sikhism, and living and learning.
> 
> I have also noted that your posts are starting to be about more than meditation, just as mine are more about accepting such, of course we are all changing, what would be the point otherwise.



of course ji 

change is always a good thing my friend

apologies if sometimes i do go on too strongly about Simran or Meditation (even though this thread is about meditation)...when you get wonder struck, sometimes you just have to yell out  (if that makes any sense)...

i also can't convince anyone of how amazing Simran or meditation is...just like i cannot convince my wife into appreciating and liking the game of football in the same way i do...believe me i tried.

also, the reason i talk sometimes about Simran and Meditation on other topics also is because i believe that through them we can get all the answers for ourselves about every conceivable topic or question we have...but again i cannot prove or make someone believe in this


----------



## Sherdil

Harry Haller said:
			
		

> It is only evident that they are in love with 'him' from the Abrahamic english translations that we all have to suffer, in truth, I think that if god is everywhere and in everything, it is more about loving the creation of god rather than god. How can one love an energy, a force, a creative power? How can you carry a photo of a creative power, how can you name a creative power? There is no separation as god is in everything and everyone, even the most base and evil person is not separated, I think when we stop listening to god inside that is when we feel separated, but we are not, just not listening, not connecting, not walking in tune, not in consonance.
> 
> what is the point of loving god, of chanting 'his' name, if you ignore the creation of god, can meditation be an hour watching an ant nest? Can one sit down and watch animals, trees, the weather, reveal themselves in all their glory, in all their fascination, can one not love these aspects of creation and just listen to god?





			
				 Tejwant Singh said:
			
		

> Carrying a picture of a lover is a great thing but as Sikhs we are surrounded by IK Ong Kaar's picture. The world and beyond become our pocket folders for this picture album of the wonders!
> 
> I beg to differ with you about saying the name because the name becomes valueless. It is rather living every moment keep on realising in mind,"Dukh Daroo, Sukh Rogh Baheyah" is living truthfully with him by holding his hand and relishing the odds of life because we are taught how to overcome them.



My respectful bros, I am still with you. I agree with everything you have said. I have not changed my position, I have just added to it. I have not dismantled the puzzle, I have just introduced a new piece. The new piece appeared in the shabadh produced by Chaz ji. I will post it here:



> ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
> बिलावलु महला ५ ॥
> Bilāval mėhlā 5.
> Bilaaval, Fifth Mehl:
> 
> ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਅਰਪਉ ਸਭੁ ਅਪਨਾ ॥
> तनु मनु धनु अरपउ सभु अपना ॥
> Ŧan man ḏẖan arpa▫o sabẖ apnā.
> Body, mind, wealth and everything, I surrender to my Lord.
> 
> ਕਵਨ ਸੁ ਮਤਿ ਜਿਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਨਾ ॥੧॥
> कवन सु मति जितु हरि हरि जपना ॥१॥
> Kavan so maṯ jiṯ har har japnā. ||1||
> What is that wisdom, by which I may come to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har?||1||
> 
> ਕਰਿ ਆਸਾ ਆਇਓ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮਾਗਨਿ ॥
> करि आसा आइओ प्रभ मागनि ॥
> Kar āsā ā▫i▫o parabẖ māgan.
> Nurturing hope, I have come to beg from God.
> 
> ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਪੇਖਤ ਸੋਭਾ ਮੇਰੈ ਆਗਨਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
> तुम्ह पेखत सोभा मेरै आगनि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
> Ŧumĥ pekẖaṯ sobẖā merai āgan. ||1|| rahā▫o.
> Gazing upon You, the courtyard of my heart is embellished. ||1||Pause||
> 
> ਅਨਿਕ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਉ ॥
> अनिक जुगति करि बहुतु बीचारउ ॥
> Anik jugaṯ kar bahuṯ bīcẖāra▫o.
> Trying several methods, I reflect deeply upon the Lord.
> 
> ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਇਸੁ ਮਨਹਿ ਉਧਾਰਉ ॥੨॥
> साधसंगि इसु मनहि उधारउ ॥२॥
> Sāḏẖsang is manėh uḏẖāra▫o. ||2||
> In the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, this mind is saved. ||2||
> 
> ਮਤਿ ਬੁਧਿ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ॥
> मति बुधि सुरति नाही चतुराई ॥
> Maṯ buḏẖ suraṯ nāhī cẖaṯurā▫ī.
> I have neither intelligence, wisdom, common sense nor cleverness.
> 
> ਤਾ ਮਿਲੀਐ ਜਾ ਲਏ ਮਿਲਾਈ ॥੩॥
> ता मिलीऐ जा लए मिलाई ॥३॥
> Ŧā milī▫ai jā la▫e milā▫ī. ||3||
> I meet You, only if You lead me to meet You. ||3||
> 
> ਨੈਨ ਸੰਤੋਖੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
> नैन संतोखे प्रभ दरसनु पाइआ ॥
> Nain sanṯokẖe parabẖ ḏarsan pā▫i▫ā.
> My eyes are content, gazing upon the Blessed Vision of God's Darshan.
> 
> ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਫਲੁ ਸੋ ਆਇਆ ॥੪॥੪॥੯॥
> कहु नानक सफलु सो आइआ ॥४॥४॥९॥
> Kaho Nānak safal so ā▫i▫ā. ||4||4||9||
> Says Nanak, such a life is fruitful and rewarding. ||4||4||9||



It appears on page 804 of GGS

What I attained from this is that it doesn't require gyaan to chant the name "Har Har". For someone who doesn't have an in-depth understanding of gurbani, or cannot see the divine in one and all, saying the name of The One is an outlet to express their love. Har Har, Ram, Allah, Waheguru are what we call The One, but in actuality The One has no name. It is the Truth, which has always been true and always be true. We can experience this truth through contemplation of gurbani and truthful action. 

page 1242 of GGS


> ਮਃ ੧ ॥
> मः १ ॥
> Mėhlā 1.
> First Mehl:
> 
> ਜਾਂ ਹਉ ਤੇਰਾ ਤਾਂ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਉ ਨਾਹੀ ਤੂ ਹੋਵਹਿ ॥
> जां हउ तेरा तां सभु किछु मेरा हउ नाही तू होवहि ॥
> Jāŉ ha▫o ṯerā ṯāŉ sabẖ kicẖẖ merā ha▫o nāhī ṯū hovėh.
> When I am Yours, then everything is mine. When I am not, You are.
> 
> ਆਪੇ ਸਕਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਸੁਰਤਾ ਸਕਤੀ ਜਗਤੁ ਪਰੋਵਹਿ ॥
> आपे सकता आपे सुरता सकती जगतु परोवहि ॥
> Āpe sakṯā āpe surṯā sakṯī jagaṯ parovėh.
> You Yourself are All-powerful, and You Yourself are the Intuitive Knower. The whole world is strung on the Power of Your Shakti.
> 
> ਆਪੇ ਭੇਜੇ ਆਪੇ ਸਦੇ ਰਚਨਾ ਰਚਿ ਰਚਿ ਵੇਖੈ ॥
> आपे भेजे आपे सदे रचना रचि रचि वेखै ॥
> Āpe bẖeje āpe saḏe racẖnā racẖ racẖ vekẖai.
> You Yourself send out the mortal beings, and You Yourself call them back home. Having created the creation, You behold it.
> 
> ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚਾ ਸਚੀ ਨਾਂਈ ਸਚੁ ਪਵੈ ਧੁਰਿ ਲੇਖੈ ॥੨॥
> नानक सचा सची नांई सचु पवै धुरि लेखै ॥२॥
> Nānak sacẖā sacẖī nāŉ▫ī sacẖ pavai ḏẖur lekẖai. ||2||
> O Nanak, True is the Name of the True Lord; through Truth, one is accepted by the Primal Lord God. ||2||



page 1243 GGS


> ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੨ ॥
> सलोक मः २ ॥
> Salok mėhlā 2.
> Shalok, Second Mehl:
> 
> ਕਥਾ ਕਹਾਣੀ ਬੇਦੀ ਆਣੀ ਪਾਪੁ ਪੁੰਨੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
> कथा कहाणी बेदीं आणी पापु पुंनु बीचारु ॥
> Kathā kahāṇī beḏīŉ āṇī pāp punn bīcẖār.
> The Vedas bring forth stories and legends, and thoughts of vice and virtue.
> 
> ਦੇ ਦੇ ਲੈਣਾ ਲੈ ਲੈ ਦੇਣਾ ਨਰਕਿ ਸੁਰਗਿ ਅਵਤਾਰ ॥
> दे दे लैणा लै लै देणा नरकि सुरगि अवतार ॥
> Ḏe ḏe laiṇā lai lai ḏeṇā narak surag avṯār.
> What is given, they receive, and what is received, they give. They are reincarnated in heaven and hell.
> 
> ਉਤਮ ਮਧਿਮ ਜਾਤੀਂ ਜਿਨਸੀ ਭਰਮਿ ਭਵੈ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥
> उतम मधिम जातीं जिनसी भरमि भवै संसारु ॥
> Uṯam maḏẖim jāṯīŉ jinsī bẖaram bẖavai sansār.
> High and low, social class and status - the world wanders lost in superstition.
> 
> ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ਤਤੁ ਵਖਾਣੀ ਗਿਆਨ ਧਿਆਨ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਈ ॥
> अम्रित बाणी ततु वखाणी गिआन धिआन विचि आई ॥
> Amriṯ baṇī ṯaṯ vakẖāṇī gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān vicẖ ā▫ī.
> The Ambrosial Word of Gurbani proclaims the essence of reality. Spiritual wisdom and meditation are contained within it.
> 
> ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਆਖੀ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਤੀ ਸੁਰਤੀ ਕਰਮਿ ਧਿਆਈ ॥
> गुरमुखि आखी गुरमुखि जाती सुरतीं करमि धिआई ॥
> Gurmukẖ ākẖī gurmukẖ jāṯī surṯīŉ karam ḏẖi▫ā▫ī.
> The Gurmukhs chant it, and the Gurmukhs realize it. Intuitively aware, they meditate on it.
> 
> ਹੁਕਮੁ ਸਾਜਿ ਹੁਕਮੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਰਖੈ ਹੁਕਮੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ॥
> हुकमु साजि हुकमै विचि रखै हुकमै अंदरि वेखै ॥
> Hukam sāj hukmai vicẖ rakẖai hukmai anḏar vekẖai.
> By the Hukam of His Command, He formed the Universe, and in His Hukam, He keeps it. By His Hukam, He keeps it under His Gaze.
> 
> ਨਾਨਕ ਅਗਹੁ ਹਉਮੈ ਤੁਟੈ ਤਾਂ ਕੋ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਲੇਖੈ ॥੧॥
> नानक अगहु हउमै तुटै तां को लिखीऐ लेखै ॥१॥
> Nānak agahu ha▫umai ṯutai ṯāŉ ko likī▫ai lekẖai. ||1||
> O Nanak, if the mortal shatters his ego before he departs, as it is pre-ordained, then he is approved. ||1||


----------



## chazSingh

nice post sherdil ji

God Bless


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh

My Take on Simran...cum meditation...as per Gurmatt


----------



## arshi

Gyani ji

Excellent guidelines for any human being. I appreciate this is not an exhaustive list but one I may be permitted to add is:

To see and seek good in all and, from the depths of our hearts, seek, as we invoke in our daily ardas, 'Sarbat da bhalaa'.

Kind regards veer ji.

Rajinder Singh 'Arshi'


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Understanding Gurbani (samjhnna) Jap(u) hai...and ACTING on Gurbani Tap (u) hai..

Jap (u)   tap (u).....Understand..and ACT on it...


----------



## Canada

I can't believe one small comment can be so misunderstood..

Let's try it again..



> I learned about Zen Buddhism for *a few years before finding Sikhi*; and I seem to still take their approach to 'meditation'.



I take their approach; what I mean is that I look at meditation that way because it is my understanding of it.



> This involves being in a state of meditation (zazen) while sitting, walking, washing the dishes, whatever it may be; *which is of course in line with the teachings of Sikhi to be with Waheguru at all times, always praising his name. *



Does Gurbani not say to remember the naam at all times? While walking, sitting, washing the dishes? What's the difference? It's a simple comparison; no need to get all frantic and panic about the future of Sikhi due to heretics. 



> To sit down at a certain time on certain days and meditate on the naam is good, but I don't see it as enough.



I still agree with what I said here.. The gurmukh should never forget the guru.

I think I should be clear in saying that I do not think the experience of satori (being in zazen 24/7) - the goal of Zen Buddhism - is the same as being immersed in the naam... 

It is simply obvious that we should seek to - like Zen Buddhists - meditate (on the naam) at all times. I happened to be Buddhist before finding Sikhi, and I think that since it is an atheistic religion it can be treated as more of a life practice - and therefore be helpful/applicable to other places in life. Yes, Guru Nanak warns of all these useless practices... but considering them in order to improve your pragmatic, every day practices that allow you to be immersed in the nectar of the naam.... well, I see no harm.


----------



## japjisahib04

Gurbani is for all time to be worth living, creative - ghari ghari ka laikha mangai. It is not to waste precious time sitting, parroting in a cave. Meditation is one of the futile means to waste precious moments. We might suppress our miseries momentarily by drugging our mind with meditation but when , ' ਮਾਇਆ ਗਈ ਤਬ ਰੋਵਨੁ ਲਗਤੁ ਹੈ ॥੧॥ where did the impact of meditation or smadhi goes at that time. Let us be practical.


----------



## Gyani Jarnail Singh

ਮਾਇਆ ਗਈ ਤਬ ਰੋਵਨੁ ਲਗਤੁ ਹੈ...................exactly and aptly put Sahni Ji.


----------



## N30S1NGH

Sikhi is middle path(not one extreme nor another) emphasis on meditation-dhian but more importantly focus on effortless/spontaneous meditation/awakening (sehaj dhian) so one does not get caught up in meditation with effort and turns that into dogma. But that does not mean meditation with effort is discouraged or rejected. In fact, for most of us with effort stages comes the stage sikhi talks sehaj dhian with ultimate stage- sehaj nirvikalpa samadhi* (spontaneous unbroken effortless thoughtless meditation)

Here is indication- by blocking mental noise in our head- conditioned mind/its thoughts. We enter the stage of just listening intuitively/awareness from that stage- one's surti(consciousness/intuitive awareness) gets drawn drawn to sehaj dhian- shabad resonance/awareness/shabad gyan-intuitive divine knowledge

ਸੁਣਿਐ ਲਾਗੈ ਸਹਜਿ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥

Suṇi▫ai lāgai sahj ḏẖi▫ān.
By Listening-intuitively one spontaneously starts to meditate/contemplate deeply.

*ਜਬ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸਹਜ ਸੁਭਾਇ ॥ जब निरगुन प्रभ सहज सुभाइ ॥ Jab nirgun parabẖ sahj subẖā▫e.
When God was without attributes, in absolute poise,

ਤਬ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਿਤੁ ਠਾਇ ॥ तब सिव सकति कहहु कितु ठाइ ॥
Ŧab siv sakaṯ kahhu kiṯ ṯẖā▫e. then where was mind and where was matter - where was Shiva and Shakti?


----------



## Harry Haller

N30S1NGH said:


> Sikhi is middle path(not one extreme nor another)



sounds a bit like a compromise, I always thought Sikhism was the true path, regardless of extremes


N30S1NGH said:


> emphasis on meditation-dhian but more importantly focus on effortless/spontaneous meditation/awakening (sehaj dhian) so one does not get caught up in meditation with effort and turns that into dogma


sorry I do not agree with this, firstly my emphasis is not on meditation, and secondly, that is a bit like telling a heroin addict not to get addicted. Its hard not to let it turn into dogma, very hard, because that in effect becomes your entire Sikhi, you cannot stop talking about it, or telling others to do it.



N30S1NGH said:


> But that does not mean meditation with effort is discouraged or rejected. In fact, for most of us with effort stages comes the stage sikhi talks sehaj dhian with ultimate stage- sehaj nirvikalpa samadhi* (spontaneous unbroken effortless thoughtless meditation)



most of us, but not all of us


N30S1NGH said:


> Here is indication- by blocking mental noise in our head- conditioned mind/its thoughts. We enter the stage of just listening intuitively/awareness from that stage- one's surti(consciousness/intuitive awareness) gets drawn drawn to sehaj dhian- shabad resonance/awareness/shabad gyan-intuitive divine knowledge



let me get this right, what your saying is that diving knowledge can be obtained by mental gymnastics and without study, wisdom, contemplation or effort?


----------



## N30S1NGH

> let me get this right, what your saying is that diving knowledge can be obtained by mental gymnastics and without study, wisdom, contemplation or effort?



Not by mental gymanistics. What i have mentioned is just one of ways there are different ways to get to divine knowledge as there are different aspects of divine for example- devotional aspect of divine, shabad resosnance aspect of divine, wisdom-gyan aspect of divine, shakti aspect of divine etc etc.

What you mentioned regarding study, wisdom, contemplation and effort is valid but the problem its  all that done is by egoic conditioned confined intellect mind not pure consciouness/intuitive intellect (surat). Mind cannot understand whats beyond mind thats why guidance is given in gurbani to mind to recnognize its root- man tu jot saroop hai apna mool painchain ||


----------



## Harry Haller

N30S1NGH said:


> What you mentioned regarding study, wisdom, contemplation and effort is valid but the problem its all that done is by egoic conditioned confined intellect mind not pure consciouness/intuitive intellect (surat). Mind cannot understand whats beyond mind thats why guidance is given in gurbani to mind to recnognize its root- man tu jot saroop hai apna mool painchain ||



you talk as if you have reached this, either way you have a very good understanding of it, have you reached this?


----------



## N30S1NGH

Not completely, lets just say i have tasted truth in meditation, its quite in and out- one leg is in truth and other leg is still in illusion/dream state.


----------



## ravneet_sb

Sat Sri Akaal,

"Meditation" and "Sikhism"


gi-aan Dhi-aan naanak vadi-aa-ee sant tayray si-o gaal galohee. ||2||8||129||

O Nanak, spiritual wisdom, meditation and glorious greatness come from dialogue and discourse with Your Saints. ||2||8||129||


kaahoo jog kaahoo bhog kaahoo gi-aan kaahoo Dhi-aan.

Some practice Yoga, some indulge in pleasures; some live in spiritual wisdom, some live in meditation


gi-aan Dhi-aan kichh karam na jaanaa naahin nirmal karnee.

I do not know anything about spiritual wisdom, meditation or karma, and my way of life is not clean and pure


gi-aan Dhi-aan sach gahir gambheeraa.

Spiritual wisdom and meditation on the True Lord are deep and profound.

koie n jwxY qyrw cIrw ] (1034-5, mwrU dKxI, mÚ 1)

ko-ay na jaanai tayraa cheeraa.

No one knows Your expanse


sach varat santokh tirath gi-aan Dhi-aan isnaan.

Those who have truth as their fast, contentment as their sacred shrine of pilgrimage, spiritual wisdom and meditation as their cleansing bath,


sumat gi-aan Dhi-aan jin day-ay. jan daas naam Dhi-aavahi say-ay.

He bestows good sense, spiritual wisdom and meditation on His humble servants and slaves who meditate on the Naam.


gi-aan Dhi-aan saglay sabh jap tap jis har hirdai alakh abhayvaa.

All wisdom and meditation, all chanting and penance, come to one whose heart is filled with the Invisible, Inscrutable Lord.


sat santokh gi-aan Dhi-aan pi-aaray jis no nadar karay.

When the Lord casts His Glance of Grace, O Beloved, one is blessed with Truth, contentment, wisdom and meditation.


gi-aan Dhi-aan kichh karam na jaanaa saar na jaanaa tayree.

I know nothing about wisdom, meditation and good deeds; I know nothing about Your excellence.

sB qy vfw siqguru nwnku ijin kl rwKI myrI ]4]10]57] (750-4, sUhI, mÚ 5)

sabh tay vadaa satgur naanak jin kal raakhee mayree. ||4||10||57||

Guru Nanak is the greatest of all; He saved my honor in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga. ||4||10||57||





Gyan (Text Knowledge/ Vocal Store)

Dhyan ( Imaginative Awareness/ Intutive Awareness) " Meditation" 

from 
vocal to imaginative state of "WORD"

These two abstract actions (formed out of limited human "EGO")

Through awareness of mind can not describe the Vast Nature

Biggest is this "SAT" the "TRUTH" from "GURU" without "CONTRADICTION" or "DOUBTS"

Nanak Ji says



Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


----------



## Harry Haller

N30S1NGH said:


> Not completely, lets just say i have tasted truth in meditation, its quite in and out- one leg is in truth and other leg is still in illusion/dream state.



well, ok, could I ask that you wait till both legs are in and then come back and educate us? I would very much look forward to that, in the meantime any debate is moot really isn't it? Maybe when you have lived it, instead of just tasting it, your experiences would carry more weight, rather than the conjecture it is at present.


----------



## N30S1NGH

I thought we are doing vichar or having discussion not a debate. Anyway, i thought i share my understanding,research (gurmat deep gnosis study as shared by many known personalities in the panth- sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale, bhai sahib bhai vir singh ji), experience with truth with others that's all.


----------



## Harry Haller

N30S1NGH said:


> I thought we are doing vichar or having discussion not a debate


no, not really, you use the style of posting that most of the meditation camp use, that of definitive, allow me to demonstrate,

What i have mentioned is just one of ways there are different ways to get to divine knowledge as there are different aspects of divine for example- devotional aspect of divine, shabad resosnance aspect of divine, wisdom-gyan aspect of divine, shakti aspect of divine etc etc.

Now I feel the above is not definitive, and I want other readers to understand that the above is not definitive, I want people who stop by to learn more about Sikhism to understand that what you are writing is not word, it is just your opinion, that is all, your opinion.



N30S1NGH said:


> nyway, i thought i share my understanding



if you were sharing your understanding the above would look like this:-

What i have mentioned is what I feel to be just one of ways there are different ways to get to divine knowledge as there are different aspects of divine for example- devotional aspect of divine, shabad resosnance aspect of divine, wisdom-gyan aspect of divine, shakti aspect of divine etc etc.

so the question is, is it sharing, or proselytizing?


----------



## N30S1NGH

I already mentioned in the past posts thats its based on my limited understanding, research and experience. I think all of us are pretty adults here so with that being kept in mind, usually people accept whatever resonates with them in their experience and ignore whatever is not. I don't feel i have to put disclaimer on each and every time i make a post as this is discussion forum. Its really none of my business on the outcome if my understanding, research and experience in sikhi resonates with people or not. I am just simply sharing whenever inner drive for sharing is there thats all.


----------



## Harry Haller

not all of us are pretty, or adult for that matter, but if your here to share then welcome brother


----------



## japjisahib04

N30S1NGH said:


> Not completely, lets just say i have tasted truth in meditation, its quite in and out- one leg is in truth and other leg is still in illusion/dream state.


 What is meditation as per gurmat?*? *It seems there is something seriously wrong in understanding gurbani. Let us take a tuk, 'ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਰਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ਤੇਰੀ ॥ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਵਡਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਲ ਰਾਖੀ ਮੇਰੀ - Knowing every creature has the light of God within, that light is "gian". Remembering that when you deal with people is "dhian", thus 'gian dhian' means wisdom and attention respectively, i.e. obtaining wisdom and internalizing that wisdom. This is the real meditation.  The meditation you are talking about existed way before Sikhi was created and as per gurmat that is not preet or seva or worshipping. The real preet as per gurmat is when I identify my shortcomings and am able to get rid of them up and thus emulate divine traits. ਮੇਰੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿਉ ਜਿਨਿ ਘਟੈ ॥ Those reasons which distances me from my creator have now been taken care of and ਜੀਅ ਸਟੈ have been transformed  ਮੈ ਤਉ ਮੋਲਿ ਮਹਗੀ ਲਈ ਜੀਅ ਸਟੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ in exchange by dropping my most considered valuable manmat.


----------



## N30S1NGH

japjisahib04 said:


> What is meditation as per gurmat?*? *It seems there is something seriously wrong in understanding gurbani. Let us take a tuk, 'ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਰਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ਤੇਰੀ ॥ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਵਡਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਲ ਰਾਖੀ ਮੇਰੀ - Knowing every creature has the light of God within, that light is "gian". Remembering that when you deal with people is "dhian", thus 'gian dhian' means wisdom and attention respectively, i.e. obtaining wisdom and internalizing that wisdom. This is the real meditation.  The meditation you are talking about existed way before Sikhi was created and as per gurmat that is not preet or seva or worshipping. The real preet as per gurmat is when I identify my shortcomings and am able to get rid of them up and thus emulate divine traits. ਮੇਰੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿਉ ਜਿਨਿ ਘਟੈ ॥ Those reasons which distances me from my creator have now been taken care of and ਜੀਅ ਸਟੈ have been transformed  ਮੈ ਤਉ ਮੋਲਿ ਮਹਗੀ ਲਈ ਜੀਅ ਸਟੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ in exchange by dropping my most considered valuable manmat.



According to my understanding, there are different level contextual aspect of the tuk. As such there may not seem they are in clash course with other, they can be reconciled with context, aspects of divine (bhagti, shabad, gyan aspects of divine are acceptable), spiritual stages of seeker

For eg- ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਰਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ਤੇਰੀ ॥ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਵਡਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਲ ਰਾਖੀ ਮੇਰੀ 

One may perceive this tuk from devotional(bhagti) aspect of Vahiguru towards satguru nanak and surrender to him completely and in that natural deeper spiritual impluse understanding there is no need for gyan, dhyan and karam knowning as full surrender of one Ego (I)/full unconditional faith in satguru nanak will take care of rest.

Or 

One may perceive this tuk as you mentioned from context you mentioned- knowing every creature has light of God within truth, if one can abide in this truth not with conditioned egoic intellectual mind but with unconditioned awakened love pure mind(unconditioned surat) and to have that realization then its fine but its difinitely not part time job. It's subject of some process.

What i was speaking earlier is process leading up to unconditioned awakened love pure mind in sehaj is not mere acquisition of spiritual state, its ceasing of mental noise of conditioned mind to have truth/knowing come in effortlessly by listening deeply intuitively in sehaj(equilibrium/spontaneously) in over time full time abidance- operate within where unconditional love(preet) of one non dual reality( one in all, all in one) is awakened or realized in pure anubhav parkash sehaj avastha nirvakailp avastha- 


ਅਚਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਨਭਉ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ ਅਮਿਤੋਜਿ ਕਹਿਜੈ ॥

Absolute non dual- our undivided spirit-atma-paratma /pure awareness nature is achal- pure motionless afor (without thoughts/forna) stillness  (morat)being -  where there is anubhav parkash- spontaneous effortless infinite intuitive parkash(bhramgyan knowledge), unfathomable ocean of knowledge. And in that knowledge there is full spontaneous knowing/realization of truth-every creature has the light of god within in, all is god, god is all its not just mere intellectual conceptual understanding its full knowing and realization because its not coming from conditioned mind but rather unconditioned awakened love pure mind which has totally immersed in ਅਚਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਨਭਉ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ ਅਮਿਤੋਜਿ ਕਹਿਜੈ ॥


----------



## Original

N30S1NGH said:


> I already mentioned in the past posts thats its based on my limited understanding, research and experience. I think all of us are pretty adults here so with that being kept in mind, usually people accept whatever resonates with them in their experience and ignore whatever is not. I don't feel i have to put disclaimer on each and every time i make a post as this is discussion forum. Its really none of my business on the outcome if my understanding, research and experience in sikhi resonates with people or not. I am just simply sharing whenever inner drive for sharing is there thats all.



Very well said N30S1NGH Ji !

As you no doubt a learned soul, there are levels of spirituality, and an awareness prima facie the first step; slowly but surely aspiring souls will cotton-on when satguru deem appropriate and not otherwise. Sikhism spiritual is not everyone's cup of tea, for all noble things are difficult as they are rare. Cause for celebration is us coming together [SPN] to connect. God has brought us together for a reason,  otherwise who'd in the right frame of their mind be surfing endlessly on Sikh Philosophy ? 

As Sikhs our mission is to share the wisdom of our forefathers impartially. When and where the penny is going to drop will be in par with one's personal exertion and commitment. 

Sikhism spiritual is "love n mercy" - *Jin prem kiya tin he prab paya.* I wish you the very best of accommodation amongst the good, beautiful and the just society of SPN.

Goodnight n Godbless


----------



## japjisahib04

N30S1NGH said:


> What i was speaking earlier is process leading up to unconditioned awakened love pure mind in sehaj is not mere acquisition of spiritual state, its ceasing of mental noise of conditioned mind to have truth/knowing come in effortlessly by listening deeply intuitively in sehaj(equilibrium/spontaneously) in over time full time abidance- operate within where unconditional love(preet) of one non dual reality( one in all, all in one) is awakened or realized in pure anubhav parkash sehaj avastha nirvakailp avastha-


 As I understand what you are trying to say is in the process we need to go for meditation by repeating a word, in order to silence the mind. But gurbani cautions me, ' ਕਾਹੇ ਕਉ ਕੀਜੈ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਜਪੰਨਾ ॥   ਜਬ ਤੇ ਸੁਧੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਮਨੁ ਅਪਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ SGGS. 485.17.Since duality originates from within Guru sahib outrightly condemns hypocrisy of dhiyan instead tells us to spend time on manh shud karna so it is the manh which needs to be transformed by getting rid of avguns and gurbani doesn't suggest purifying of the mind by repeating or focusing on a word by saying that while repeating God's name you still are practicing deception, 'ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਨਿਤ ਕਪਟੁ ਕਮਾਵਹਿ ਹਿਰਦਾ ਸੁਧੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਹਿ ਬਹੁਤੇਰੇ ਸੁਪਨੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੧॥ . Gurbani even does not suggest adopting unnatural means to silence the mind as mind cannot be silenced, 'ਚੁਪੈ ਚੁਪ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਲਾਇ ਰਹਾ ਲਿਵ ਤਾਰ ॥ or by force, 'ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਜੁਗਤੀ ਛੁਟੈ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥.

You may have noticed, despite ever accelerating trends of Fake Naam Japna Apostasy, Drugs, Alcohol, foeticide and SUICIDES are increasing thus this practice has not been fruitful. Something has to change. Thus how you react that is important and not how you act. Manh is raja and gurbani says manh manh tai mania through introspection and listening inner voice and *in order to qualify to listen the inner voice the process is* simply be honest, be humble, stop exploiting etc etc. In other order words gurmat's bhakti is manh saaf karna* and that bin shabdai shud n hoey. 

*


----------



## Original

japjisahib04 said:


> As I understand what you are trying to say is in the process we need to go for meditation by repeating a word, in order to silence the mind. But gurbani cautions me, ' ਕਾਹੇ ਕਉ ਕੀਜੈ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਜਪੰਨਾ ॥   ਜਬ ਤੇ ਸੁਧੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਮਨੁ ਅਪਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ SGGS. 485.17.Since duality originates from within Guru sahib outrightly condemns hypocrisy of dhiyan instead tells us to spend time on manh shud karna so it is the manh which needs to be transformed by getting rid of avguns and gurbani doesn't suggest purifying of the mind by repeating or focusing on a word by saying that while repeating God's name you still are practicing deception, 'ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਨਿਤ ਕਪਟੁ ਕਮਾਵਹਿ ਹਿਰਦਾ ਸੁਧੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਹਿ ਬਹੁਤੇਰੇ ਸੁਪਨੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੧॥ . Gurbani even does not suggest adopting unnatural means to silence the mind as mind cannot be silenced, 'ਚੁਪੈ ਚੁਪ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਲਾਇ ਰਹਾ ਲਿਵ ਤਾਰ ॥ or by force, 'ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਜੁਗਤੀ ਛੁਟੈ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥.
> 
> You may have noticed, despite ever accelerating trends of Fake Naam Japna Apostasy, Drugs, Alcohol, foeticide and SUICIDES are increasing thus this practice has not been fruitful. Something has to change. Thus how you react that is important and not how you act. Manh is raja and gurbani says manh manh tai mania through introspection and listening inner voice and *in order to qualify to listen the inner voice the process is* simply be honest, be humble, stop exploiting etc etc. In other order words gurmat's bhakti is manh saaf karna* and that bin shabdai shud n hoey.
> *



Japjisahib Ji

I quite enjoyed your read as much as I did N30S1NGH. Both views merit credit. Gyan Yog and Karm Yog [modes of perception only] for this exercise is an interesting window through which both views find compatibility. However, in the social context with which you've raised certain social ills will require further discussion.

I'd submit my observations for perusal when I return from an social event. In the mean time I wish everyone a good day !

Gurfateh


----------



## ravneet_sb

japjisahib04 said:


> As I understand what you are trying to say is in the process we need to go for meditation by repeating a word, in order to silence the mind. But gurbani cautions me, ' ਕਾਹੇ ਕਉ ਕੀਜੈ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਜਪੰਨਾ ॥   ਜਬ ਤੇ ਸੁਧੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਮਨੁ ਅਪਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ SGGS. 485.17.Since duality originates from within Guru sahib outrightly condemns hypocrisy of dhiyan instead tells us to spend time on manh shud karna so it is the manh which needs to be transformed by getting rid of avguns and gurbani doesn't suggest purifying of the mind by repeating or focusing on a word by saying that while repeating God's name you still are practicing deception, 'ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਨਿਤ ਕਪਟੁ ਕਮਾਵਹਿ ਹਿਰਦਾ ਸੁਧੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਹਿ ਬਹੁਤੇਰੇ ਸੁਪਨੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੧॥ . Gurbani even does not suggest adopting unnatural means to silence the mind as mind cannot be silenced, 'ਚੁਪੈ ਚੁਪ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਲਾਇ ਰਹਾ ਲਿਵ ਤਾਰ ॥ or by force, 'ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਜੁਗਤੀ ਛੁਟੈ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥.
> 
> You may have noticed, despite ever accelerating trends of Fake Naam Japna Apostasy, Drugs, Alcohol, foeticide and SUICIDES are increasing thus this practice has not been fruitful. Something has to change. Thus how you react that is important and not how you act. Manh is raja and gurbani says manh manh tai mania through introspection and listening inner voice and *in order to qualify to listen the inner voice the process is* simply be honest, be humble, stop exploiting etc etc. In other order words gurmat's bhakti is manh saaf karna* and that bin shabdai shud n hoey. *



Sat Sri Akaal,

"MEDITATION"

All vocal and literal knowledge has originated from visual/ imaginative realisation.

"Meditation" or "Dhyan" is  getting focus on

"Object" ie. Objective Study along with "SUBJECT" Subjective Study

The glorified fantasy of word "MEDITATION"

was exposed to commons

ਕਾਹੇ ਕਉ ਕੀਜੈ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਜਪੰਨਾ ॥  ਜਬ ਤੇ ਸੁਧੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਮਨੁ ਅਪਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

If one is not aware of one's own mind (ਸੁਧੁ (awareness) ਨਾਹੀ ਮਨੁ(mind) ਅਪਨਾ (own)) and how mind

seeks/ stores/ process information.

what is use of meditating on subjects,

Mind will still be filled with "EGO"

And if one's mind is pure and clean

"Imagintion" or "Visualisation" of "Word" will be spontaneous and simultaneous

ਸੁਣਿਐ ਲਾਗੈ ਸਹਜਿ ਧਿਆਨੁ.

for eg say apple one get image evoked in mind

now say malus domestica check for if image is evoked

so Special Postures/ Yoga Technique/ With Eyes Closed  Single Word or Text Parroting is "Pakhand"

Human Process is Same without "CONTRADICTION/ DOUBTS" through AGES

"GURU"S BANI" is without DOUBT/CONTRADICTION

"DOUBTS/CONTRADICTION" in "GURUSBANI" is  with "HUMAN"

till "SEEKER" are not aware

BHUL CHUK MAAF,


Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


----------



## N30S1NGH

> As I understand what you are trying to say is in the process we need to go for meditation by repeating a word, in order to silence the mind.But gurbani cautions me, ' ਕਾਹੇ ਕਉ ਕੀਜੈ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਜਪੰਨਾ ॥ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਸੁਧੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਮਨੁ ਅਪਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ SGGS. 485.17.Since duality originates from within Guru sahib outrightly condemns hypocrisy of dhiyan instead tells us to spend time on manh shud karna so it is the manh which needs to be transformed by getting rid of avguns and gurbani doesn't suggest purifying of the mind by repeating or focusing on a word by saying that while repeating God's name you still are practicing deception, 'ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਨਿਤ ਕਪਟੁ ਕਮਾਵਹਿ ਹਿਰਦਾ ਸੁਧੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਹਿ ਬਹੁਤੇਰੇ ਸੁਪਨੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੧॥ . Gurbani even does not suggest adopting unnatural means to silence the mind as mind cannot be silenced, 'ਚੁਪੈ ਚੁਪ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਲਾਇ ਰਹਾ ਲਿਵ ਤਾਰ ॥ or by force, 'ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਜੁਗਤੀ ਛੁਟੈ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥.



Repeating a word is one of initial ways in shabad surat aspect of divine. It's not so much repeating a word is problem, its repeating a word with no receptivity like robotic parrot is a problem with no love and people making out to be all or end all is a problem. It just one of aids which helps mind more focused on shabad-resonance(naad) which takes one consciousness to higher reality as gurbani talks about one of aspect of divine and creation-everything came from shabad resosance(naad) will go back there eventually. These things are not meant to be conceptually debated but rather tried yourself. If it resonates with you thats great if it does not thats great too.

Off course one has to adapt right actions/right attributes-guns to help loosen conditioning of mind before one start doing dyan. Dyan is contemplation and abidance on ultimate nature of reality mentioned in gurbani, after a while unnatural mind conditioning will fall away.

Gurbani purifies mind as I strongly believe in gurbani is of 4th dimension-Turiya if one connects to gurbani after adapting good attributes with openness, receptivity it purifies mind but if one is approaching gurbani with their egoic mind conditioning shield around then one may try life times nothing will happen.

Dogmatic means are confined idiloized un-natural means, mind conditioning be it wrapping our head to certain ideology is un-natural. Off course you cannot still mind by un-natural means or by force. One can still mind(Achal-nature of mind as described in gurbani) by love, devotion, intuitive gyan-wsidom, openness, receptivity, jaap concentration/abidance on our real self (Man tu jot saroop hai, apna mool painchain ||)



> You may have noticed, despite ever accelerating trends of Fake Naam Japna Apostasy, Drugs, Alcohol, foeticide and SUICIDES are increasing thus this practice has not been fruitful. Something has to change. Thus how you react that is important and not how you act. Manh is raja and gurbani says manh manh tai mania through introspection and listening inner voice and in order to qualify to listen the inner voice the process is simply be honest, be humble, stop exploiting etc etc. In other order words gurmat's bhakti is manh saaf karna and that bin shabdai shud n hoey.



We need to look at naam jaap as different aspects of divine, different stages in divine. For eg- doing vichar is quite higher stage where there is vichar-introspection and listening inner voice within themselves not just conceptually or intellectually with others only but via inner unconditioned intuitive consciousness because conceptual/intellectual/conditioned mind has limitations.

Listening inner voice via dyan of shabad gyan/abidance in our unconditioned consciouness(surat) is much more intimate, deeper and profound its revealing of our true nature, its much more profound than confining inner voice following -honesty be humble etc. These good actions/attributes which are supposed to be followed from very beginning before when one starts enter in sikhi.

But confining sikhi to only following basic human attributes such as honesty, be humble does not do full justice of great gurbani revelation of ultimate nature of all of us... confining anything its unnatural its conditioning itself. In fact, we do not need to try so hard with our egoic conditioning to adapt honest, and be humble. In deeper exploration of sikhi, one finds  right actions/speech rises effortlessly risen automatically at right time/right place from directly ultimate divine nature thats beauty of our universal intuitive intelligence its does not rely on conditioned response from conditioned mind which is confined/always have agenda to self egoic preservation. I am not against right actions/right speech- honesty, be humble, stop exploitations. The main question is from absolute point of view- whos is doing? If egoic conditioning does it, since its confined its seems dogmatic/unnatural but if its natural spontaneous response from our true nature then its much more profound and deepening as our true nature does not have much attachment to outcome for eg- love,humility, compassion, honesty risen from our real nature its just as is without any agenda/strategizing/attachment by confined conditioned mind. Our true nature just loves, is embodiment of compassion thats all, its unconditioned its NOT subject of conditioned circumstances.

It's been long discussion. I will retire from this thread now. All i would say, ultimately these deep spiritual discussions are best left for one own experience/deep exploration. Conceptual discussion has limitations. Conceptual mind/conditioned mind simply cannot understand whats beyond conceptual mind/conditioned mind.

Enjoy.


----------



## Harry Haller

N30S1NGH said:


> Repeating a word is *one* of initial ways in shabad surat aspect of divine. It's not so much repeating a word is problem, its repeating a word with no receptivity like robotic parrot is a problem with no love and people making out to be all or end all is a problem. It just *one *of aids which helps mind more focused on shabad-resonance(naad) which takes one consciousness to higher reality as gurbani talks about one of aspect of divine and creation-everything came from shabad resosance(naad) will go back there eventually. These things are not meant to be conceptually debated but rather tried yourself. *If it resonates with you thats great if it does not thats great too*.



I love this, this is great, see this fella has the hang of it, he has embraced every point I have asked all of the meditation camp to embrace, which is please try and be less definitive. Allow me to highlight the areas which I feel show respect to others.

I can read something interesting without feeling I am doing something wrong in my own pursuit of Sikhi.



N30S1NGH said:


> Gurbani purifies mind as *I strongly believe* in gurbani is of 4th dimension-Turiya if one connects to gurbani after adapting good attributes with openness, receptivity it purifies mind but if one is approaching gurbani with their egoic mind conditioning shield around then one may try life times nothing will happen.



Well I don't believe that, but know what, if I ever feel the need to pursue the 4th dimension, you'll be top of my list to find out more (sorry to clarify, this is sincere not sarcasm) 



N30S1NGH said:


> Dogmatic means are confined idiloized un-natural means, mind conditioning be it wrapping our head to certain ideology is un-natural. Off course you cannot still mind by un-natural means or by force. One can still mind(Achal-nature of mind as described in gurbani) by love, devotion, intuitive gyan-wsidom, openness, receptivity, jaap concentration/abidance on our real self (Man tu jot saroop hai, apna mool painchain ||)



see, this fella knows the difference between dogma and spirituality, he is as scathing of dogma as I am!



N30S1NGH said:


> We *need* to look at naam jaap as different aspects of divine, different stages in divine. For eg- doing vichar is quite higher stage where there is vichar-introspection and listening inner voice within themselves not just conceptually or intellectually with others only but via inner unconditioned intuitive consciousness because conceptual/intellectual/conditioned mind has limitations.



Well, again I don't buy this, but it does not sound impossible, I can see the logic behind it.



N30S1NGH said:


> Listening inner voice via dyan of shabad gyan/abidance in our unconditioned consciouness(surat) is much more intimate, deeper and profound its revealing of our true nature, its much more profound than confining inner voice following -honesty be humble etc. These good actions/attributes which are supposed to be followed from very beginning before when one starts enter in sikhi.



You write in a humble way that almost makes me want to try this.


N30S1NGH said:


> But confining sikhi to only following basic human attributes such as honesty, be humble does not do full justice of great gurbani revelation of ultimate nature of all of us... confining anything its unnatural its conditioning itself. In fact, we do not need to try so hard with our egoic conditioning to adapt honest, and be humble. In deeper exploration of sikhi, one finds right actions/speech rises effortlessly risen automatically at right time/right place from directly ultimate divine nature thats beauty of our universal intuitive intelligence its does not rely on conditioned response from conditioned mind which is confined/always have agenda to self egoic preservation. I am not against right actions/right speech- honesty, be humble, stop exploitations. The main question is from absolute point of view- whos is doing? If egoic conditioning does it, since its confined its seems dogmatic/unnatural but if its natural spontaneous response from our true nature then its much more profound and deepening as our true nature does not have much attachment to outcome for eg- love,humility, compassion, honesty risen from our real nature its just as is without any agenda/strategizing/attachment by confined conditioned mind. Our true nature just loves, is embodiment of compassion thats all, its unconditioned its NOT subject of conditioned circumstances.



ok, this is pretty definitive, but nonetheless your passion shines through, it is not written to make everyone else feel stupid or left out, its humble but passionate, and to boot, yeah it makes sense, its not for me, I have my own reasons and issues, but its interesting.



N30S1NGH said:


> It's been long discussion. I will retire from this thread now. *All i would say, ultimately these deep spiritual discussions are best left for one own experience/deep exploration*. Conceptual discussion has limitations. Conceptual mind/conditioned mind simply cannot understand whats beyond conceptual mind/conditioned mind.



excellent post! informative, interesting and quite clear it is a personal point of view, thank you


----------



## ravneet_sb

Sat Sri Akaal,

When one's mind doubt's are resolved, mind is free from thought for new.

Through blessing of (GURU's BANI)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


----------



## ravneet_sb

ਅਚਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਨਭਉ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ ਅਮਿਤੋਜਿ ਕਹਿਜੈ ॥

Absolute non dual- our undivided spirit-atma-paratma /pure awareness nature is achal- pure motionless afor (without thoughts/forna) stillness  (morat)being -  where there is anubhav parkash- spontaneous effortless infinite intuitive parkash(bhramgyan knowledge), unfathomable ocean of knowledge. And in that knowledge there is full spontaneous knowing/realization of truth-every creature has the light of god within in, all is god, god is all its not just mere intellectual conceptual understanding its full knowing and realization because its not coming from conditioned mind but rather unconditioned awakened love pure mind which has totally immersed in ਅਚਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਨਭਉ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ ਅਮਿਤੋਜਿ ਕਹਿਜੈ ॥[/QUOTE]

Sat Sri Akaal,

ਅਚਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਨਭਉ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ ਅਮਿਤੋਜਿ ਕਹਿਜੈ 

Where the image appear
and
one have all the visual experience,
where one imagines and experience all the beauty
where are the imaginative experience happens.
is all beautiful and still,
images move,
but on what  image appears inside humans is always still,
that is awareness of own self that is said.

Divine Light flows inside humans,

Its one,

before dual nature of light reflects.

If one know of self owned process, one achieves,all of "meditation"

"Meditation" knowledge on "Subjects"

does not give this awareness to humans.

"GURU's BANI"

has opened up the

immense

beyond measurable value

of

ancestral knowledge or "TRUTH"

to "SEEKERS" or "SIKHS" 

Sab Sikhan Ko Human Hai GURU MANYO GRANTH

One who wants to learn or "SEEK" follow "GURU" as "GRANTH SAHIB JI"

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


----------



## ravneet_sb

N30S1NGH said:
			
		

> Dogmatic means are confined idiloized un-natural means, mind conditioning be it wrapping our head to certain ideology is un-natural. Off course you cannot still mind by un-natural means or by force. One can still mind(Achal-nature of mind as described in gurbani) by love, devotion, intuitive gyan-wsidom, openness, receptivity, jaap concentration/abidance on our real self (Man tu jot saroop hai, apna mool painchain ||)



Sat Sri Akaal,

Bhul Chuk Maaf,

Not making bounds to free mind,

But yes to keep it free, one shall not justify,

Know Thy Self

That My Action If everyone does, Let it do as universal
If no one do, still I will do, with faith, without justifying.

Even Wearing the Cloth on body is not natural,

Nature has given the feeling of shame, one wears it

If one doesn't have feel, NAGA SADHU's also there

Nature has give feeling of honour, one wear cloth on head also.


One can always justify Role of "EGO" is to justify.

All these discussion are man mat, one shall not justify.

"Jo TUDH BHAVE So Bhali KAAR" *<-post full shabad with panna number please! - Ishna*

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


----------

