# Shabads Of Kabeer Ji



## kds1980

wjkk
wjkf


    on page 326 of guru granth sahib kabir ji wrote
AYsy Gr hm bhuqu bswey ] (326-1, gauVI, kbIr jI)
aisay ghar ham bahut basaa-ay.
I lived in many such homes, O Lord,

jb hm rwm grB hoie Awey ]1] rhwau ] (326-1, gauVI, kbIr jI)
jab ham raam garabh ho-ay aa-ay. ||1|| rahaa-o.
before I came into the womb this time. ||1||Pause||

jogI jqI qpI bRhmcwrI ] (326-2, gauVI, kbIr jI)
jogee jatee tapee barahamchaaree.
I was a Yogi, a celibate, a penitent, and a Brahmchaaree, with strict self-discipline.

kbhU rwjw CqRpiq kbhU ByKwrI ]2] (326-2, gauVI, kbIr jI)
kabhoo raajaa chhatarpat kabhoo bhaykhaaree. ||2||
Sometimes I was a king, sitting on the throne, and sometimes I was a beggar. ||2||

swkq mrih sMq siB jIvih ] (326-2, gauVI, kbIr jI)
saakat mareh sant sabh jeeveh.
The faithless cynics shall die, while the Saints shall all survive.

while on 1366 kabir ji wrote
Page 1366

AYsy mrny jo mrY bhuir n mrnw hoie ]29] (1366-1, slok, Bgq kbIr jI)
aisay marnay jo marai bahur na marnaa ho-ay. ||29||
Let those who die, die such a death, that they shall never have to die again. ||29||

kbIr mwns jnmu dulµBu hY hoie n bwrY bwr ] (1366-1, slok, Bgq kbIr jI)
kabeer maanas janam dulambh hai ho-ay na baarai baar.
Kabeer, it is so difficult to obtain this human body; it does not just come over and over again.

ijau bn Pl pwky Buie igrih bhuir n lwgih fwr ]30] (1366-1, slok, Bgq kbIr jI)
ji-o ban fal paakay bhu-ay gireh bahur na laageh daar. ||30||
It is like the ripe fruit on the tree; when it falls to the ground, it cannot be re-attached to the branch. ||30||

kbIrw quhI kbIru qU qyro nwau kbIru ] (1366-2, slok, Bgq kbIr jI)
kabeeraa tuhee kabeer too tayro naa-o kabeer.
Kabeer, you are Kabeer; yo

in the first shabad kabir ji wrote that some times he was beggar sometimes he was king in the second shabad kabir ji is saying that this human body does not come again
i want to know from a scholar of gurbani why these shabads
contradicts.


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## S|kH

I'm far from a scholar...

but, after reading just that shabad, this is what I intrepreted..

He does not speak of "re-incarnation" so to say, he speaks of different cycles of life everyone goes through. There is always a time in your life, where ego gets to you, and you feel like a king...a time where you lose everything, and begin to beg for material wealth or mercy.

The human body only becomes once, so defeat the useless cycle of life which plagues most humans...and attain something bigger, and brighter. You fall of a tree like an apple, only once...there's no way to get back on your branch...make the most of it.


And when he says "womb this time" in the beginning, I take it as he refers to  he has went everywhere in philosophical thinking, but finally he has reached God's realm...Nirvana.


I know, a really elementary intrepration...but according to that logic, thats how he explains himself as feeling like a king, and all the other things.

I just don't see this passage directly correlating to re-incarnation.


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## kds1980

wjkk
wjkf

      sikh ji the first shabad is about reincarnation the first lines are
gauVI kbIr jI ] (325-19)
ga-orhee kabeer jee.
Gauree, Kabeer Jee:

AsQwvr jMgm kIt pqMgw ] (325-19, gauVI, kbIr jI)
asthaavar jangam keet patangaa.
The mobile and immobile creatures, insects and moths

Aink jnm kIey bhu rMgw ]1] (325-19, gauVI, kbIr jI)
anik janam kee-ay baho rangaa. ||1||
- in numerous lifetimes, I have passed through those many forms. ||1||

i read the punjabi translation of that shabad of pro sahib singh in his translation .he also says that shabad is about reincarnation.gyani sant singh ji maskeen also says that in his katha.

    here is another shabad in guru granth in which it is written that we have sins of countless past lives

Basant, Fourth Mehl, Hindol: 

qum@ vf purK vf Agm gusweI hm kIry ikrm qumnCy ] (1178-10, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4) 
tumH vad purakh vad agam gusaa-ee ham keeray kiram tumnachhay. 
You are the Great Supreme Being, the Vast and Inaccessible Lord of the World; I am a mere insect, a worm created by You. 

hir dIn dieAwl krhu pRB ikrpw gur siqgur crx hm bnCy ]1] (1178-10, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4) 
har deen da-i-aal karahu parabh kirpaa gur satgur charan ham banchhay. ||1|| 
O Lord, Merciful to the meek, please grant Your Grace; O God, I long for the feet of the Guru, the True Guru. ||1|| 

goibMd jIau sqsMgiq myil kir ik®pCy ] (1178-11, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4) 
gobind jee-o satsangat mayl kar kirpachhay. 
O Dear Lord of the Universe, please be merciful and unite me with the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation. 

jnm jnm ky iklivK mlu BirAw imil sMgiq kir pRB hnCy ]1] rhwau ] (1178-12, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4) 
janam janam kay kilvikh mal bhari-aa mil sangat kar parabh hanchhay. ||1|| rahaa-o. 
I was overflowing with the filthy sins of countless past lives. But joining the Sangat, God made me pure again. ||1||Pause|| 

qum@rw jnu jwiq Aivjwqw hir jipE piqq pvICy ] (1178-12, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4) 
tumHraa jan jaat avijaataa har japi-o patit paveechhay. 
Your humble servant, whether of high class or low class, O Lord - by meditating on You, the sinner becomes pure. 

hir kIE sgl Bvn qy aUpir hir soBw hir pRB idnCy ]2] (1178-13, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4) 
har kee-o sagal bhavan tay oopar har sobhaa har parabh dinchhay. ||2|| 
The Lord exalts and elevates him above the whole world, and the Lord God blesses him with the Lord's Glory. ||2|| 

jwiq Ajwiq koeI pRB iDAwvY siB pUry mwns iqnCy ] (1178-14, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4) 
jaat ajaat ko-ee parabh Dhi-aavai sabh pooray maanas tinchhay. 
Anyone who meditates on God, whether of high class or low class, will have all of his hopes and desires fulfilled. 

sy DMin vfy vf pUry hir jn ijn@ hir DwirE hir aurCy ]3] (1178-14, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4) 
say Dhan vaday vad pooray har jan jinH har Dhaari-o har urchhay. ||3|| 
Those humble servants of the Lord who enshrine the Lord within their hearts, are blessed, and are made great and totally perfect. ||3|| 

hm FINFy FIm bhuqu Aiq BwrI hir Dwir ik®pw pRB imlCy ] (1178-15, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4) 
ham dheeNdhay dheem bahut at bhaaree har Dhaar kirpaa parabh milchhay. 
I am so low, I am an utterly heavy lump of clay. Please shower Your Mercy on me, Lord, and unite me with Yourself. 

jn nwnk guru pwieAw hir qUTy hm kIey piqq pvICy ]4]2]4] (1178-16, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4) 
jan naanak gur paa-i-aa har toothay ham kee-ay patit paveechhay. ||4||2||4|| 
The Lord, in His Mercy, has led servant Nanak to find the Guru; I was a sinner, and now I have become immaculate and pure. 

    so there is no question of not beleiving in reincarnation as it is mentioned several times in gurbani


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## S|kH

It still doesn't make sense...

Re-incarnation can not be proven, and specifically what you were before can never be known (thats the whole point isnt it?)

And, even at that...Guru Nanak never spoke all that much on after-death situations.

I still believe theres something more poetic about the re-incarnaton lines than we are grasping.

The maximum you can have  is for someone to state the possibility of re-incarnation and the mechanism on how it works. But, as soon as he starts describing the trip through it, I tend to believe its a poetic reference to something else?

If his main point was to stress re-incarnation, than why even go through specific life-forms, and exactly...why the life-forms he chose to write? Why not other ones? A King, a begger were all chosen for a reason...

And if you believe Kabeer to be wise enough to actually be able to prove re-incarnation, and have gone through those life-forms and remembered it...then surely he'd be wise enough to not leave a contradictory statement like that.


Looking at the rest of the quotes, the only one that seems to me to actually be fact of re-incarnation belief is "AsQwvr jMgm kIt pqMgw ] (325-19, gauVI, kbIr jI)
asthaavar jangam keet patangaa.
The mobile and immobile creatures, insects and moths

Aink jnm kIey bhu rMgw ]1] (325-19, gauVI, kbIr jI)
anik janam kee-ay baho rangaa. ||1||
- in numerous lifetimes, I have passed through those many forms. ||1||" 

the rest of the other shabad also makes it.....sort of questionable?


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## S|kH

kds1980 said:
			
		

> wjkk
> 
> here is another shabad in guru granth in which it is written that we have sins of countless past lives
> 
> Basant, Fourth Mehl, Hindol:
> 
> qum@ vf purK vf Agm gusweI hm kIry ikrm qumnCy ] (1178-10, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4)
> tumH vad purakh vad agam gusaa-ee ham keeray kiram tumnachhay.
> You are the Great Supreme Being, the Vast and Inaccessible Lord of the World; I am a mere insect, a worm created by You.
> 
> hir dIn dieAwl krhu pRB ikrpw gur siqgur crx hm bnCy ]1] (1178-10, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4)
> har deen da-i-aal karahu parabh kirpaa gur satgur charan ham banchhay. ||1||
> O Lord, Merciful to the meek, please grant Your Grace; O God, I long for the feet of the Guru, the True Guru. ||1||
> 
> goibMd jIau sqsMgiq myil kir ik®pCy ] (1178-11, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4)
> gobind jee-o satsangat mayl kar kirpachhay.
> O Dear Lord of the Universe, please be merciful and unite me with the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation.
> 
> jnm jnm ky iklivK mlu BirAw imil sMgiq kir pRB hnCy ]1] rhwau ] (1178-12, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4)
> janam janam kay kilvikh mal bhari-aa mil sangat kar parabh hanchhay. ||1|| rahaa-o.
> I was overflowing with the filthy sins of countless past lives. But joining the Sangat, God made me pure again. ||1||Pause||
> 
> qum@rw jnu jwiq Aivjwqw hir jipE piqq pvICy ] (1178-12, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4)
> tumHraa jan jaat avijaataa har japi-o patit paveechhay.
> Your humble servant, whether of high class or low class, O Lord - by meditating on You, the sinner becomes pure.
> 
> hir kIE sgl Bvn qy aUpir hir soBw hir pRB idnCy ]2] (1178-13, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4)
> har kee-o sagal bhavan tay oopar har sobhaa har parabh dinchhay. ||2||
> The Lord exalts and elevates him above the whole world, and the Lord God blesses him with the Lord's Glory. ||2||
> 
> jwiq Ajwiq koeI pRB iDAwvY siB pUry mwns iqnCy ] (1178-14, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4)
> jaat ajaat ko-ee parabh Dhi-aavai sabh pooray maanas tinchhay.
> Anyone who meditates on God, whether of high class or low class, will have all of his hopes and desires fulfilled.
> 
> sy DMin vfy vf pUry hir jn ijn@ hir DwirE hir aurCy ]3] (1178-14, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4)
> say Dhan vaday vad pooray har jan jinH har Dhaari-o har urchhay. ||3||
> Those humble servants of the Lord who enshrine the Lord within their hearts, are blessed, and are made great and totally perfect. ||3||
> 
> hm FINFy FIm bhuqu Aiq BwrI hir Dwir ik®pw pRB imlCy ] (1178-15, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4)
> ham dheeNdhay dheem bahut at bhaaree har Dhaar kirpaa parabh milchhay.
> I am so low, I am an utterly heavy lump of clay. Please shower Your Mercy on me, Lord, and unite me with Yourself.
> 
> jn nwnk guru pwieAw hir qUTy hm kIey piqq pvICy ]4]2]4] (1178-16, bsMqu ihMfol, mÚ 4)
> jan naanak gur paa-i-aa har toothay ham kee-ay patit paveechhay. ||4||2||4||
> The Lord, in His Mercy, has led servant Nanak to find the Guru; I was a sinner, and now I have become immaculate and pure.
> 
> so there is no question of not beleiving in reincarnation as it is mentioned several times in gurbani




I dont know...to me sins of countless past lives is a metaphor.
I mean, the whole theory on joining the Khalsa Panth was like being "re-born" has been around for a while, and used metaphorically by Sikhs for a long time.

They were "re-born" into the Panj Pyare...yet, everyone knows they werent actually re-born physically, but mentally. 

I'm sure you have heard a human saying the same thing about an experience in their life...


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## kds1980

wjkk
wjkf

    dear sikh ji several times it is mentioned in guru granth sahib that all your sufferings are due to your past lives sins it has nothing to do with taking
amrit.if we don't have don't have any past human lives then why the destiny of every human is diffrent.if a person is born mentally retarded then what 
is his fault.he can't do simran .will he go back to 84 lakh jooni cycle.


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## kds1980

wjkk
wjkf

    here is another shabad from guru granth
sloku ] (253-12)
salok.
Shalok:

kuMt cwir dh idis BRmy krm ikriq kI ryK ] (253-12, gauVI, mÚ 5)
kunt chaar dah dis bharamay karam kirat kee raykh.
He wanders around in the four quarters and in the ten directions, according to the dictates of his karma.

sUK dUK mukiq join nwnk iliKE lyK ]1] (253-12, gauVI, mÚ 5)
sookh dookh mukat jon naanak likhi-o laykh. ||1||
Pleasure and pain, liberation and reincarnation, O Nanak, come according to one's pre-ordained destiny. ||1||

it is written in this shabad that we get everything according to our pre ordained destiny if we don't have any previous human life then why the destiny of every person is diffrent


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## kds1980

wjkk
wjkf

    here is another shabad from guru granth
sloku ] (253-12)
salok.
Shalok:

kuMt cwir dh idis BRmy krm ikriq kI ryK ] (253-12, gauVI, mÚ 5)
kunt chaar dah dis bharamay karam kirat kee raykh.
He wanders around in the four quarters and in the ten directions, according to the dictates of his karma.

sUK dUK mukiq join nwnk iliKE lyK ]1] (253-12, gauVI, mÚ 5)
sookh dookh mukat jon naanak likhi-o laykh. ||1||
Pleasure and pain, liberation and reincarnation, O Nanak, come according to one's pre-ordained destiny. ||1||

it is written in this shabad that we get everything according to our pre ordained destiny if we don't have any previous human life then why the destiny of every person is diffrent


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## devinesanative

Dear Friends

There is a difference Between ReProduction and Production.

Reproduction means producing something from which has already been produced.

Production means a fresh production starting from the scratch.

Thought the above definitions are not exhaustive .......

And We Human beings Reproduce .

When you are born , you are not born , you are reproduced .

You are reproduced out of your parents ......

So , your parents Past life becomes yours .......

If , a particular parent does some mistake , then it is bound that a new offspring reproduced may be mentally retarded ......

When , you take birth ...... then you own life is responsible for your future destiny ......

In a single life we are born and reborn many times ........... 

If scientifically be seen , each and every second old cells die and new cells are born .........


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## S|kH

kds1980 said:
			
		

> wjkk
> wjkf
> 
> dear sikh ji several times it is mentioned in guru granth sahib that all your sufferings are due to your past lives sins it has nothing to do with taking
> amrit.if we don't have don't have any past human lives then why the destiny of every human is diffrent.if a person is born mentally retarded then what
> is his fault.he can't do simran .will he go back to 84 lakh jooni cycle.



I dont quite understand how you need to believe in re-incarnation in order ot believe in why every human has a different destiny...

If a person is born mentally retarded, it is not because of his past-life sins. It is because of the genetic-makeup failed.

And I did not mean that the only time people use metaphors is when "taking amrit" and past life sins are different, but I was just using taking amrit as an example. There are terms such as "born-again" Christians...what if Kabeer was talking on those terms?





			
				kds1980 said:
			
		

> wjkk
> wjkf
> 
> here is another shabad from guru granth
> sloku ] (253-12)
> salok.
> Shalok:
> 
> kuMt cwir dh idis BRmy krm ikriq kI ryK ] (253-12, gauVI, mÚ 5)
> kunt chaar dah dis bharamay karam kirat kee raykh.
> He wanders around in the four quarters and in the ten directions, according to the dictates of his karma.
> 
> sUK dUK mukiq join nwnk iliKE lyK ]1] (253-12, gauVI, mÚ 5)
> sookh dookh mukat jon naanak likhi-o laykh. ||1||
> Pleasure and pain, liberation and reincarnation, O Nanak, come according to one's pre-ordained destiny. ||1||
> 
> it is written in this shabad that we get everything according to our pre ordained destiny if we don't have any previous human life then why the destiny of every person is diffrent



Ok, there are certain things that can be seen as "pre-ordained" destiny, such as where you are born, who your parents are, and things of that nature. You do not decide those factors.

As per the first line of the shabad, He wanders around the globe as per the dictates of his karma. It does not mean that he actually travels the world, it means "he reaps what he sows". I feel thats a very straight forward line and in no means is to be taken literally.

As per the second line, think of it...if we take the factors that I state are a part of our pre-ordained destiny..than re-incarnation simply comes in the fact that if you father mistreats your mom, and you grow up in such an enivornment, you will fall into the same trap. You do not become liberated, until you wish so, since God is in us. Until you make the action to become liberated...by your karma, by your "reap what you sow". Pleasure, and Pain can come according to one's preordained destiny such that...some parents are nice to their children, some are not. Some parents will help their children become liberated, others will not. Some children will fall right back into the footsteps of the deceitful lives they see infront of them, and will be forever stuck in the wasteless human cycle i.e. re-incarnation. They won't get beyond watching "MTV" on tv


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## S|kH

> In a single life we are born and reborn many times ...........



Devinesanative summed up pretty much what I was going to say.


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## kds1980

wjkk
wjkf

      i agree with it that a person is born mentally retarded because of its genes.but if genes are everything then who is god.what are the spiritual reason behind taking birth as mentally retarded.and where that person will
go.does it mean that god discriminates between its people

   as for the reincarnation theory many people have confirmed this theory by their previous lives experiances.here is the site where you can read their experiances
http://www.childpastlives.org/


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## devinesanative

Dear Friend ,

There are many sites which claim so much ..........

There is one site which can calculate you Death time ....

Death.com ........

But upon closely probing it ........ they were actually selling their products .......

The funda of calculating the Death time was to *presell* their products ..... this is marketing concept .........

As far as reincarnation or rebirth is concerned , I am also researching and have found some amazing facts about it ............

Please wait ....


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## devinesanative

Dear friend ,

There may have been a time when you were thinking that your friend should call you or you should call your friend , and just after that you recieve a call ........

Or 

When you are with your friend or family in the mall or market place , And as you are thinking about something , just after the fraction of the secornd you family member or friend says the samething which you were just thinking ........


Here the rebirth , and the above concept is somewhere connected .........


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## kds1980

devinesanative said:
			
		

> Dear Friend ,
> 
> There are many sites which claim so much ..........
> 
> There is one site which can calculate you Death time ....
> 
> Death.com ........
> 
> But upon closely probing it ........ they were actually selling their products .......
> 
> The funda of calculating the Death time was to *presell* their products ..... this is marketing concept .........
> 
> As far as reincarnation or rebirth is concerned , I am also researching and have found some amazing facts about it ............
> 
> Please wait ....



wjkk
wjkf

   there are many funny sites but this site has a forum where people like you and me have debates about their past lives.these people have their memories of their past lives.even their are scientists who are doing research on this subject.a case was shown on discovery channel of a girl which remember everything about her previous life .she even told about the place of her death . the scientist that was doing research on this subject 
found her previous life parents.all the things she told about herself was found true.you should read some books on this subject


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## kds1980

devinesanative said:
			
		

> Dear friend ,
> 
> There may have been a time when you were thinking that your friend should call you or you should call your friend , and just after that you recieve a call ........
> 
> Or
> 
> When you are with your friend or family in the mall or market place , And as you are thinking about something , just after the fraction of the secornd you family member or friend says the samething which you were just thinking ........
> 
> 
> Here the rebirth , and the above concept is somewhere connected .........


  wjkk
  wjkf 

     this is not rebirth this is telepathy.i experienced this several times
btw you haven't answer my question that if genes are everything then who is god.why he discriminate between its people


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## devinesanative

Dear Friend ,

In this world there are two type of Questions :

1) For which any one can answer it or the answer can be found .
2) This second type of question has no answers , their answers can be sought only by experience .

Questions Related to : LOVE , LIFE , GOD , DEATH cannot be answered , they can only be experienced ...........

As far as rebirth is concerned , my thesis is very long and , so I have to cut it short , and will post soon .............


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## kds1980

wjkk
wjkf

 dear devinsanative ji  and sikh ji all the religions beleive that our soul is eternal 
all the abrahamic faith beleive that we have only one chance after that we will go in heaven or hell according to our deeds
while all the indian faiths beleive in reincarnation theory.
all the atheists beleive that death is the end
i want to know which theory you people beleive


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## rosethorne

WJKK
WJKF
Dear Gursikhs, Gurbani says about re-incarnation is very true. As per Gursikhi we are not capable to say no to Gurbani. May be anyone can say it orthodox or illitrate person. But GURU SAHEB, so many times in SGGS Maharaj, said to gursikhs only, anyone can see or hear it, but the truth is revealed only by the Gursikhs. One has to be surrendered to Guru Saheb. After surrendering to Guru Saheb a gursikh surely reach to Eternal and True Lord= Waheguru. Incarnation is true when if it is said in SGGS Maharaj. It is a duty of A true Gursikh, That he willnot make its meanings of his own.

rwmklI mhlw 5 ] qU dwnw qU Aibclu qUhI qU jwiq myrI pwqI ] qU Afolu kdy folih nwhI qw hm kYsI qwqI ]1] eykY eykY eyk qUhI ] eykY eykY qU rwieAw ] qau ikrpw qy suKu pwieAw ]1] rhwau ] qU swgru hm hMs qumwry qum mih mwxk lwlw ] qum dyvhu iqlu sMk n mwnhu hm BuMch sdw inhwlw ]2] hm bwirk qum ipqw hmwry qum muiK dyvhu KIrw ] hm Kylh siB lwf lfwvh qum sd guxI ghIrw ]3] qum pUrn pUir rhy sMpUrn hm BI sMig AGwey ] imlq imlq imlq imil rihAw nwnk khxu n jwey ]4]6] (pMnw884)


RAAMKALEE, FIFTH MEHL: You are wise; You are eternal and unchanging. You are my social class and honor. You are unmoving - You never move at all. How can I be worried? || 1 || You alone are the One and only Lord; You alone are the king. By Your Grace, I have found peace. || 1 || Pause || You are the ocean, and I am Your swan; the pearls and rubies are in You. You give, and You do not hesitate for an instant; I receive, forever enraptured. || 2 || I am Your child, and You are my father; You place the milk in my mouth. I play with You, and You caress me in every way. You are forever the ocean of excellence. || 3 || You are perfect, perfectly all-pervading; I am fulfilled with You as well. I am merged, merged, merged and remain merged; O Nanak, I cannot describe it! || 4 || 6 || (Page884)






​


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## drkhalsa

Dear Khalsa ji

There are manu other examples in our gurbani which pionts to Reincarnation  one of it is to add to above is 
go*u*rr*ee* ch*ae*th*ee* mehal*aa* 1 ||
_Gauree Chaytee, First Mehl:_

kath k*ee* m*aaee* b*aa*p kath k*ae*r*aa* k*i*dh*oo* thh*aa*vah*u* ham *aa*e*ae* ||
_Who is our mother, and who is our father? Where did we come from?_

Agin ibMb jl BIqir inpjy kwhy kMim aupwey ]1]
agan b*i*(n)b jal bh*ee*thar n*i*paj*ae* k*aa*h*ae* ka(n)m o*u*p*aa*e*ae* ||1||
_We are formed from the fire of the womb within, and the bubble of water of the sperm. For what purpose are we created? ||1||_

m*ae*r*ae* s*aa*h*i*b*aa* ko*u*n j*aa*n*ai* g*u*n th*ae*r*ae* ||
_O my Master, who can know Your Glorious Virtues?_

keh*ae* n j*aa*n*ee* ao*u*gan m*ae*r*ae* ||1|| reh*aa*o ||
_My own demerits cannot be counted. ||1||Pause||_

k*ae*th*ae* r*u*kh b*i*rakh ham ch*ee*n*ae* k*ae*th*ae* pas*oo* o*u*p*aa*e*ae* ||
_I took the form of so many plants and trees, and so many animals._​k*ae*th*ae* n*aa*g k*u*l*ee* meh*i* *aa*e*ae* k*ae*th*ae* pa(n)kh o*u*dd*aa*e*ae* ||2||
_Many times I entered the families of snakes and flying birds. ||2||_

hatt pattan b*i*j ma(n)dhar bha(n)n*ai* kar ch*o*r*ee* ghar *aa*v*ai* ||
_I broke into the shops of the city and well-guarded palaces; stealing from them, I snuck home again._

agah*u* dh*ae*kh*ai* p*i*shhah*u* dh*ae*kh*ai* th*u*jh th*ae* keh*aa* shhap*aa*v*ai* ||3||
_I looked in front of me, and I looked behind me, but where could I hide from You? ||3||_

thatt th*ee*rathh ham nav kha(n)dd dh*ae*kh*ae* hatt pattan b*aa*j*aa*r*aa* ||
_I saw the banks of sacred rivers, the nine continents, the shops and bazaars of the cities._

l*ai* k*ai* thakarr*ee* th*o*lan l*aa*g*aa* ghatt h*ee* meh*i* vanaj*aa*r*aa* ||4||
_Taking the scale, the merchant begins to weigh his actions within his own heart. ||4||_

j*ae*th*aa* sam*u*(n)dh s*aa*gar n*ee*r bhar*iaa* th*ae*th*ae* ao*u*gan ham*aa*r*ae* ||
_As the seas and the oceans are overflowing with water, so vast are my own sins._

dhae*iaa* karah*u* k*i*shh m*i*har o*u*p*aa*vah*u* dd*u*badh*ae* pathhar th*aa*r*ae* ||5||
_Please, shower me with Your Mercy, and take pity upon me. I am a sinking stone - please carry me across! ||5||_

j*ee*arr*aa* agan bar*aa*bar thap*ai* bh*ee*thar vag*ai* k*aa*th*ee* ||
_My soul is burning like fire, and the knife is cutting deep._

pranavath n*aa*nak h*u*kam pashh*aa*n*ai* s*u*kh h*o*v*ai* dh*i*n r*aa*th*ee* ||6||5||17||
_Prays Nanak, recognizing the Lord's Command, I am at peace, day and night. ||6||5||17||_

*Guru Nanak, Raag Gauree, Page 156 *

*Dear khalsa ji that *
*if we take very straight forward meaning looks pointing more toward to reincarnation  but still my personal understanding is not enough to understand full the message in our Guru Granth Sahib while i have no doubt about our Guruji bit my understanding still not good enough but as per my current understanding i believe in reincarnation may akal gives more clear understanding *
*I have one account of disscusion done on the topic by very revolutionary and enlightened soul but not related to Sikhism but his logical way of thinking helps lot of people to relate with many such issues actually I am taling about Jidu Krishnamurti I will post that disscusion here it may help you in futher understanding the concept*

*



 <H1>A conversation following the Death of John Field

From "The reluctant Messiah" by Sidney Field

This is a very long quote copied from pp. 117, 118 and pp. 135-157 from the book "The reluctant Messiah" by Sidney Field, Paragon House, New York 1989, Edited by Peter Hay, ISBN 1-55778-180-X, Copyright 1989 by Sidney Field. Sidney Field was a close friend to Krishnamurti and the book is about all the encounters he had with K. At page 117, Sidney wrote: 
My brother, John, died early in January, 1972. His death was totally unexpected and a great shock to me. John had been a photographer, a lover of adventure, women and wine, a mean of great Latin charm. He had known Krishnaji as long as I had, and had many times delighted him with his stories and personal adventures. Krishnaji had just arrived from Europe and was staying in Malibu at the home of Mrs. Zimbalist. I called him to give him the sad news, saying I wanted to see him, and he asked me to come the following day for lunch. 
He greeted me most affectionately. At the dining table I came right to the point: "Has John survived his bodily death in a subtler form? Yes or no?" There was a moment's silence. "My gut feeling," I went on, "is that he is here beside me, right now." 
"Of course he is, right here beside you," said Krishnaji. "He's very close to you, and will continue being close for some time." Two hours later we were still deep into the subject of death and the hereafter. He referred to that part of the personality that survives bodily death as an echo, instead of an astral body, as the Theosophists call it, the echo of the person who lived on earth, the duration of its life on the other side depending on the strength of the individual's earthly personality. "Dr. Besant's echo, for instance," he said, "will go on for a long time, for she had a very strong personality." 
"Your viewpoint here is very similar to that of the Theosophists," I said. 
"With one important difference," he replied. "There is no permanent substance that survives the death of the body. Whether the ego lasts one year, ten thousand, or a million years, it must finally come to an end." 
Krishnaji's remarks during this conversation were among the most revealing and enlightening I had ever heard him make on the subject of death and survival beyond it. At the end of our talk Mrs. Zimbalist remarked that it was a great pity we had not recorded it, for, prodded by insistent questioning and probing on my part, and aided by a sympathetic Mrs. Zimbalist, Krishnaji had explored what to us was a new dimension on this fascinating subject. 
Krishnaji has an extraordinary capacity for recall, when he wants to use that gift, and a few days later, he Alain Naude and Mrs. Zimbalist recreated the entire conversation, this time recording it, with Naude asking Krishnaji essentially the same questions I had asked. It was staged in a much quieter atmosphere, naturally, and Naude's questions were cool and intellectual. They did not have the same urgency and strong feeling of my approach, for I was hurting at the time. Nevertheless, I was fascinated when I heard the recording. Krishnaji gave me permission to publish it in connection with this memoir, and it appears in the Appendix. 

Appendix

A conversation following the Death of John Field

Participants : Krishnamurti , Alain Naude , Mary Zimbalist 
recorded on january 14, 1972

Krishnamurti : We said the other day Sidney Field came to see me. His brother John died recently. You knew him. He was very concerned whether his brother was living in a different level of consciousness; wether there was John as an entity born [in the] next life. And did I believe in reincarnation and what did it mean. And so he had a lot of questions. He was having a difficult time with himself because of his brother, whom he loved and whom we have known for years. So out of that conversation two things came up. First, is there a permanent ego? If there is such a thing as a permanent something, then what is its relationship from the present to the future? The future being next life or ten years later. But if you admit or accept or believe or assert that there is a permanent ego, then reincarnation... 
Alain Naude: ... is inevitable. 
K: Not inevitable. I wouldn't say inevitable. It is plausible, because the permanent ego, to me, if it is permanent, can be changed in ten years' time. It can incarnate differently in ten years time. 
A: We read this all the time in the Indian scriptures. We read about children who remember the past life, about a girl who said, "What am I doing here? My home is in some other village. I'm married to so and so. I have three children." And in many cases I believe that this has been verified. 
K: I don't know. So there is that. If there is no permanent entity, then what is reincarnation? Both involve time, both involve a movement in space. Space being environment, relationship, pressure, all that existing within that space, time. 
A: Within time and temporal circomstances ... 
K: ... That is, culture etcetera ... 
A: ... Within some sort of social set-up. 
K: So is there a permanent me? Obviously not. But Sidney said, "Then what is it that I feel, that John is with me? When I enter the room, I know he is there. I'm not fooling myself, I'm not imagining; I feel him there as I feel my sister who was in that room yesterday. It's as clear, as definite as that." 
A: And also sir, when you say "obviously not" , would you explain that ? 
K: But wait. So he says, "My brother is there." I said of course he is there, because first of all you have your association and memories of John and that is projected, and that projection is your remembrance. 
A: So that the John who was contained within you is that. 
K: And when John lived he was associated with you. His presence is with you. When he was living, you might not have seen him all day, but his presence was in that room. 
A: His presence was there, and perhaps this is what people mean when they speak of an aura. 
K: No, aura is different. Let's not push that in yet. 
Mary Zimbalist: May I interrupt - when you say he was in that room, whether alive or dead, was there something external to his brother and sister that was there, or was it in their consciousness? 
K: It is both in their consciousness and outside consciousness. I can project my brother and say he was with me last night, feeling he was with me, that may emanate from me; or John, who died ten days ago - his atmosphere, his thoughts, his way of behaving still remaining there, even though physically he might have gone. 
A: The psychic momentum. 
K: The physical heat. 
Z: Are you saying there is a sort of energy, for want of a better word, which human beings give off? 
K: There was a photograph of a parking lot taken where there had been many cars, and the photo showed, although there were no cars there, the form of the cars that had been there. 
A: Yes. I saw that. 
K: That is, the heat that the car had left came on the negative. 
A: And also one day when we were living in Gstaad, the first time I was your guest at Gstaad, we were living as Les Capris - you left for America before any of us left, and I went into that flat - you were still alive and on your way to America and your presence was there, extremely strong. 
K: That's it. 
A: Your presence was so strong, one felt one could touch you. This was not simply because I was thinking about you before I entered the flat. 
K: So there are three possibilities. I project out of my remembrance and consciousness, or pick up the risidual energy of John. 
A: Like a smell that would linger. 
K: John's thought or John's existence is still there. 
A: That's the third possibility. 
Z: What do you mean by that, John' existenc? 
A: That John is really there as before he died? The third possibility. 
K: I live in a room for a number of years. The presence of that room contained my energy, my thoughts, my feelings. 
A: It contains its own energy, and when we go into a new house it sometimes takes time before you are rid of the person who was there before you, even though you may not have known him. 
K: So those are the three possibilities. And the other is John's thought, because John clings to life. John's desires are there in the air, not in the room. 
A: Immaterially. 
K: Yes, they are there just like a thought. 
A: And does that mean that John is conscious and there is a being who is self-conscious calling himself John, thinking those thoughts? 
K: I doubt it. 
A: I think that is what the people who believe in reincarnation would postulate. 
K: See what happens, Sir. This makes four possibilities and the idea that John whose physical body is gone, exists in thought. 
A: In his own thought or someone else's? 
K: In his own thought. 
A: Exists as a thinking entity. 
K: As a thinking entity exists. 
A: As a conscious being. 
K: That is - listen to this, it's rather interesting - John continues because he is the world of vulgarity, of greed, of envy, of drinking, and of competition. That is the common pattern of man. It continues and John may be identified with that, or is that. 
A: John is the desires, the thoughts, the beliefs, the associations. 
K: Of the world. 
A: Which are incarnate and which are material. 
K: Which is the world - which is everybody. 
A: This is a big thing you are saying. It would be nice if you could explain it a bit better. When you say John persists, John continues because there is a continuation of the vulgar in him - the vulgar being worldly, material association. 
K: That is right: fear, wanting power, position. 
A: Desire to be as an entity. 
K: So that, because that is a common thing of the world and the world does incarnate. 
A: You say the world does incarnate. 
K: Take the mass of the people. They are caught in this stream and that stream goes on. I may have a son who is part of that stream and in that stream there is John also, as a human being who is caught in it. And my son may remember some of John's attitudes. 
A: Ah but you are saying something different. 
K: Yes. 
A: You are saying that John is contained in all the memories that different people have of him. In that respect we can see that he does exist. Because I remember a friend of mine died not long ago, and it was very clear to me when I thought about it that in fact he was very much alive in the memories of all the people who had loved him. 
K: That's just it. 
A: Therefore, he was not absent from the world, he was still in the stream of events which we call the world, which is the lives of different people who had associated with him. In that sense we see that he can perhaps live forever. 
K: Unless he breaks away from it - breaks away from the stream. A man who is not vulgar - let's use that word, vulgar, representing all this ... greed, envy, power, position, hatred, desires, all that - let's call that vulgar. Unless I am free from the vulgar, I will continue representing the whole of vulgarity, the whole vulgarity of man. 
A: Yes, I will be that vulgarity by pursuing it, and in fact incarnating in it, giving it life. 
K: Therefore I incarnate in that vulgarity. That is, first I can project John, my brother. 
A: In my thought and imagination or remember him. The second point, I can pick up his kinetic energy, which is still around. 
K: His smell, his taste, his saying the words. 
A:The pipe which is unsmoked on the desk, the half-finished letter. 
K: All that. 
A: Flowers he picked in the garden. 
K: Third, the thought remains in the room. 
A: Thought remains in the room? 
K: Feelings ... 
A: One might say, the psychic equivalent of his kinetic energy. 
K: Yes. 
A: His thought remains almost as a material smell. As a physical smell. 
K: That's right. 
A: The energy of thought remains like an old coat that you hang up. 
K: Thought, will, if he has a very strong will; active desires and thought, they also remain. 
A: But that's not different from the third point. The third point is that thought remains, which is will, which is desire. 
K: The fourth point is the stream of vulgarity. 
A: That's not very clear. 
K: Look, sir, I live an ordinary life, like millions and millions of people. 
A: Yes, pursuing goals, hopes and fears. 
K: I live the usual life. A little more refined, a little bit higher or lower, along the same current, I follow that current. I am that current. Me, who is that current, is bound to continue in that stream, which is the stream of me. I'm not different from millions of other people. 
A: Therefore are you saying, sir, even, dead I continue because the things which were me are continuing. 
K: In the human being. 
A: Therefore, I survive. I was not different from the things which filled and preoccupied my life. 
K: That's right. 
A: Since these things which filled and occupied my life survive, in a manner of speaking I survive since they do. 
K: That's right. That's four points. 
A: The question is about the fifth. Is there a conscious thinking entity who knows that he is conscious when everybody has said, "There goes poor old John," even put him in the ground. Is there a conscious entity who immaterially says, "Good gracious, they've put that body in the ground but I have consciousness of being alive." 
K: Yes. 
A: That is the question which I think is difficult to answer. 
K: Sidney was asking that question. 
A: Because we see that everybody does exist in these other ways after death. 
K: Now, you are asking the question, Does John, whose body is burned - cremated - does that entity continue to live? 
A: Does that entity continue to have its consciousness of its own existence? 
K: I question whether there is a seperate John. 
A: You said at the beginning, is there such a thing as a permanent ego? You said obviously not. 
K: When you say that John, my brother, is dead and ask wether he is living, living in a seperate consciousness, I question whether he was ever seperate from the stream. 
A: Yes. 
K: You follow what I am saying, sir? 
A: Was there a John alive? 
K: When John was alive, was he different from the stream? 
A: The stream filled his consciousness of himself. His consciousness of himself was the stream knowing himself. 
K: No, sir, just go slowly. It's rather complicated. The stream of humanity is anger, hate, jealosy, seeking power, position, cheating, corrupt, polluted. That is the stream. Of that stream is my brother John. When he existed physically, he has a physical body, but psychologically he was of this. Therefore was he ever different from this? From the stream? Or only physically different and therefore thinking he was different. You follow my point? 
A: There was an entity who was self-conscious ... 
K: ... As John. 
A: He was self-conscious, and the stream was in relationship to himself. 
K: Yes. 
A: My wife, my child, my love. 
K: But was John inwardly different from the stream? That's my point. Therefore what is dead is the body. And the continuation of John is part of that stream. I, as his brother, would like to think of him as separate because he lived with me as a seperate being physically. Inwardly he was of the stream. Therefore, was there a John who was different from the stream? And, if he was different, then what happens? I don't know if you follow. 
A: There is a stream from outside and there is a stream from inside. Vulgarity seen in the street is from the man who feels himself to be acting in the moment of that vulgarity. I insult somebody. This is vulgarity. You see that vulgarity from the outside and say there is a vulgar act. I who am insulting somebody see the act in a different way. I feel self-conscious life at the moment when I insult. In fact I insult because there is a conscious thinking about me. I am protecting myself, so I insult. 
K: My point is, this is what is happening with one hundred million people. Millions of people. As long as I swim in that stream, am I different? Is the real John from the stream? 
A: Was there ever a John? 
K: That's all my point. 
A: There was conscious determination which felt itself to be John. 
K: Yes, but I can imagine. I can invent because I am different. 
A: There was imagination, thought, calling itself John. 
K: Yes, sir. 
A: Now, does that thought still call itself John? 
K: But I belong to that stream. 
A: You always belong to the stream. 
K: There is no separate entity as John who was my brother, who is now dead. 
A: Are you saying that there is no individual? 
K: No, this is what we call permanent. The permanent ego is this. 
A: What we think is individual. 
K: Individual, the collective, the self. 
A: Yes, the creation of thought which calls itself self. 
K: It is of this stream. 
A: That's right. 
K: Therefore, was there ever a John? There is only a John when he is out of the stream. 
A: That's right. 
K: So first we are trying to find out if there is a permanent ego which incarnates. 
A: The nature of the ego is imperminent. 
K: Reincarnation is in the whole of Asia, and the modern people who believe in it say there is a permanent ego. You take many lives so that it can become dissolved and be absorbed in Brahma and all that. Now, is there from the beginning a permanent entity, an entity that lasts centuries and centuries? There is no such entity, obviously. I like to think I'm permanent. My permanence is identified with my furniture, my wife, my husband, surcumstances. These are words and images of thought. I don't actually possess that chair. I call it mine. 
A: Exactly. You think it's a chair and you own it. 
K: I like to think I own it. 
A: But it's just an idea. 
K: So, watch it. So there is no permanent self. If there was a permanent self, it would be this stream. Now, realizing that I am like the rest of the world, that there is no seperate K, or John, as my brother, then I can incarnate if I step out of it. Incarnate in the sense that the change can take place away from the stream. In the stream there is no change. 
A: If there is permanence, it is outside the stream. 
K: No, sir, permanency, semipermanency, is the stream. 
A: And therefore it is not permanent. If it is permanent, it is not the stream. Therefore, if there is an entity, then it must be out of the stream. Therefore, that which is true, that which is permanent, is not a something. 
K: It is not in the stream. 
A: That's right. 
K: When Naude dies, as long as he belongs to the stream, that stream and its flow is semipermanent. 
A: Yes, It goes on. It's a historical thing. 
K: But if Naude says, I will incarnate, not in the next life, now, tomorrow, which means I will step out of the stream, he is no longer belonging to the stream; therefore there is nothing permanent. 
A: There is nothing to reincarnate. Therefore, that which reincarnates, if reincarnation is possible, is not permanent anyway. 
K: No, it's the stream. 
A: It's very temporal. 
K: Don't put it that way. 
A: A seperate entity is not real. 
K: No, as long as I belong to the stream ... 
A: I don't really exist ... 
K: There is no separate entity. I am the world. 
A: That's right. 
K: When I step out of the world, is there a me to continue? 
A: Exactly, It's beautiful. 
K: So, what we are trying to do is justify the existence of the stream. 
A: Is that what we are trying to do? 
K: Of course, when I say I must have many lives and therefore I must go through the stream. 
A: What we are trying to do, then, is we are trying to establish that we are different from the stream. 
K: We are not. 
A: We are not different from the stream. 
K: So, sir, then what happens? If there is no permanent John or K or Naude or Zimbalist, what happens? You remember, sir, I think I read it in the Tibetan tradition or some other tradition, that when a person dies, is dying, the priest or the monk comes in and sends all the family away, locks the door and says to the dying man, "Look you're dying - let go - let all of your antagonisms, all your worldliness, all your ambition, let go, because you are going to meet a light in which you will be absorbed, if you let go. If not, you'll come back. Which is, come back to the stream. You will be the stream again. 
A: Yes. 
K: So what happens to you if you step out of the stream? 
A: You step out of the stream, you cease to be, but the you which was, was only created by thought, anyway. 
K: Which is the stream. 
A: Vulgarity. 
K: Vulgarity. What happens if you step out of the stream? The stepping out is the incarnation. Yes, sir, but that is a new thing you are coming into. There is a new dimension coming into being. 
A: Yes. 
K: Now, what happens? You follow? Naude has stepped out of the stream. What happens? You are not an artist. Not a businessman. You are not a polititian, not a musician, all that identification is part of the stream. 
A: All the qualities. 
K: All the qualities. When you discard that, what happens? 
A: You have no identity. 
K: Identity is here. Say, for instance, Napoleon, or any of these so-called world leaders: they killed, they butchered, they did every horror imaginable, they lived and died in the stream, they were of the stream. That is very simple and clear. There is a man who steps out of the stream. 
A: Before physical death? 
K: Of course; otherwise there is no point. 
A: Therefore, another dimension is born. 
K: What happens? 
A: The ending of the dimension which is familiar to us is another dimension, but it cannot be postulated at all because all postulation is in terms fo the dimension we are in. 
K: Yes, but suppose you, living now ... 
A: Step out of it. 
K: Step out of the stream. What happens? 
A: This is death, sir. 
K: No, sir. 
A: This is death, but no physical death. 
K: You see, you step out of it. What happens? 
A: Nothing can be said about what happens. 
K: Wait, sir. You see, none of us step out of the river, and we are always from the river, trying to reach the other shore. 
A: it's like people talking about deep sleep from awakeness. 
K: That's it, sir. We belong to this stream, all of us. Man does belong to the stream and from the stream he wants to reach that shore, never leaving the river. Now the man says, all right, I see the fallacy of this, the absurdity of my position. 
A: You can't state another dimension from the old dimension. 
K: So I leave that. So the mind says, "Out!". He steps out and what takes place? Don't verbalize it. 
A: The only thing one can say about it in terms of the stream is silence. Because it is the silence of the stream, and one can also say it is the death of the stream. Therefore, in terms of the stream it is sometimes called oblivion. 
K: You know what it means to step out of the stream: no character. 
A: No memory. 
K: No, sir, see: no character, because the moment you have character it's of the stream. The moment you say you are virtuous, you are of the stream - or not virtuous. To step out of the stream is to step out of this whole structure. So, creation as we know it is in the stream. Mozart, Beethoven, you follow, the painters, they are all here. 
A: I think perhaps, sir, sometimes that which is in the stream is vivified, as it were from something which is beyond. 
K: No, no, can't be. Don't say these things because I can create in the stream. I can paint marvelous pictures. why not? I can compose the most extraordinary symphonies, all the techniques ... 
A: Why are they extraordinary? 
K: Because the world needs it. There is the need, the demand, and the supply. I'm saying to myself what happens to the man who really steps out. Here in the river, in the stream, energy is conflict, in contradiction, in strife, in vulgarity. But that's going on all the time ... 
A: Me and You. 
K: Yes, that's going on all the time. When he steps out of it, there is no conflict, there is no division as my country, your country. 
A: No division. 
K: No division. So what is the quality of that man, that mind that has no sense of division? It is pure energy, isn't it? So our concern is this stream and stepping out of it. 
A: That is meditation, that is real meditation, because the stream is not life. The stream is totally mechanical. 
K: I must die to the stream. 
A: All the time. 
K: All the time. And therefore I must deny - not deny, I must not get entangled with - John who is in the stream. 
A: One must repudiate the things of the stream. 
K: That means I must repudiate my brother. 
A: I must repudiate having a brother. You see what that means? 
K: I see my brother belonging to this, and as I move away from the stream my mind is open. I think that is compassion. 
A: When the stream is seen from that which is not of the stream. 
K: When the man of the stream steps out and looks, then he has compassion. 
A: And love. 
K: So, you see, sir, reincarnation, that is, incarnating over and over again, is the stream. This is not a very comforting thing. I come to you and tell you my brother died yesterday, and you tell me this. I call you a terribly cruel man. But you are weeping for yourself, you are weeping for me, for the stream. That's why people don't want to know. I want to know where my brother is, not whether he is.
		
Click to expand...

</H1>*


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## kds1980

wjkk
wjkf

  dear khoji ji your question is like an atheist .has anyone ever seen waheguru
the answer is no.religion is based on faith not on proofs


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## devinesanative

Dear DRKhalsa Ji ,

This post is really very interesting and I am overwhelmed with the post and I go agree with krishnamurthy ... As my research also says the same thing ......


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## rosethorne

WJKK
WJKF
      Dear Khojiji, I just want to say if any of a person says to you that he knows about his and all person's past life then what you will do? I know it, you will blow him out or you will probably serve him with lot of goodies. It is not a sensible question to ask. Just go a little nearer to SGGSJI Maharaj and you will be amazed. Every Answer of yours lying inside SGGSJI Maharaj.


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## devinesanative

Dear Friends

The interesting thing about brain is that we can listen to our favourite Songs , Music or Shabads with StereoPhonic Sound or DTS surround Sound without the help of any physical musical system .


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## kds1980

wjkk
wjkf

    i found this shabad in guru granth  sahib
"At the point of death, one who dies thinking of wealth, 
shall be reincarnated over and over again, in the form of serpents. 

O brother, do not forget the Name of the Lord of the Universe. 

At the point of death, one who dies thinking of women, 
shall be reincarnated over and over again as a prostitute. 

At the point of death, one who dies thinking of his children, 
shall be reincarnated over and over as a pig. 

At the point of death, one who dies thinking of mansions, 
shall be reincarnated over and over as a goblin. 

At the point of death, one who dies thinking of the Lord, 
says Trilochan, that man shall be liberated; 
the Lord shall abide in his heart." 

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 526.

so there is no point argueing that gurbani beleives in reincarnation or not


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## japjisahib04

Dear Khoji ji
Gurbani tells us, mandha changha aapna aapai hi keeta pavana. What we sow, so shall we reap. Just rewind your tape that you will realize whatever you have done with other, it has come back to you with one or the other way.
Regards Sahni Mohinder


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## kds1980

khoji said:
			
		

> Mohinder Ji you said it well, we do not have to wait for another life to rewind our tape to see what we have done with others. This is my understanding and I have learnt from Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji is why are we wasting our life by worrying about past life or future life when we can use this life which Waheguru has given us for  nam simran and seva and achieve liberation.
> 
> icMqw qw kI kIjIAY jo AnhonI hoie ]
> People become anxious, when something unexpected happens.
> icNqw qw kI kIjIEy jo AnhonI hoe ]
> chintaa taa kee keejee-ai jo anhonee ho-ay.
> 
> iehu mwrgu sMswr ko nwnk iQru nhI koie ]51]
> This is the way of the world, O Nanak; nothing is stable or permanent. ||51||
> ehu mwrgu sNswr ko nwnk iQ{ nhI koe ]51]
> ih maarag sansaar ko naanak thir nahee ko-ay. ||51||
> 
> jo aupijE so ibnis hY pro Awju kY kwil ]
> Whatever has been created shall be destroyed; everyone shall perish, today or tomorrow.
> jo apijAo so ibnis hY pro Awju kY kwil ]
> jo upji-o so binas hai paro aaj kai kaal.
> 
> nwnk hir gun gwie ly Cwif sgl jMjwl ]52]
> O Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, and give up all other entanglements. ||52||
> nwnk hir gun gwe ly Cwif sgl jNjwl ]52]
> naanak har gun gaa-ay lay chhaad sagal janjaal. ||52||
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ???.
> 
> rwm nwmu aur mY gihE jw kY sm nhI koie ]
> I have enshrined the Lord`s Name within my heart; there is nothing equal to it.
> rwm nwmu ar mY gihAo jw kY sm nhI koe ]
> raam naam ur mai gahi-o jaa kai sam nahee ko-ay.
> 
> ijh ismrq sMkt imtY drsu quhwro hoie ]57]1]
> Meditating in remembrance on it, my troubles are taken away; I have received the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. ||57||1||
> ijh ismrq sNkt imtY drsu quhwro hoe ]57]1]
> jih simrat sankat mitai daras tuhaaro ho-ay. ||57||1||
> 
> Rosethorne ji, every question is a valid and sensible question which removes the ignorance. Question not asked will never be answered and person stays ignorent.
> 
> Kds1980 Ji, yes I do believe that faith is basses of all the religions but think about the blind faith.  Blind faith can see God in the stone. Blind Faith can destroy and terrorize the world.
> 
> Yes! Kds1980 ji one can see Waheguru in his creation, in morning sun and evening moon, see him in the birth of a child, see him in new leaf or flower. Just like one can never see the sweet smell of a flower but can smell it in the breeze. Same way one cannot see Waheguru but one can feel Waheguru?s presence in the nature.
> 
> Regards
> Khoji



wjkk
wjkf


     similarly one can see its past lives in his present life if the person has all the worldly pleasures it means that he has done something good in his past lives on the other hand if a person is suffering in his present life it means that he has done bad things in his past lives


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## japjisahib04

Yes no can escape from the impact of Hukam. Yet we don't understand its significance. We keep on doing wrong action but expect good result and then complaint. The law of nature never fail.Thus live through the right means which is pointed out in His hukam.
Best regards
Sahni Mohinder


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## rosethorne

WJKK
WJKF
      Dear japjisaheb04ji, very well said, The law of nature never fail, like ,Jyon Jyon tera hukanm tiven tiv howana. I really admire you for this.


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