# Transmigration Of Soul



## Sikh80 (Dec 31, 2007)

*TRANSMIGRATION OF THE SOUL*


TRANSMIGRATION OF THE SOUL. doctrine of rebirth based on the theory that an individual soul passes at death into a new body or new form of life. Central to the concept is the principle of universal causality, i.e. a person must receive reward or punishment if not here and now then in a subsequent birth, for his actions in the present one. The soul, it is held, does not cease with the physical body, but takes on a new birth in consequence of the person`s actions comprising thoughts, words and deeds. The cumulative effect of these determines his next existence. Attached to worldly objects, man will continue in the circuit of birthdeathrebirth until he attains spiritual liberation, annulling the effect of his past actions. Belief in reincarnation is basic to the eschatology of all religions of Indian origin. Some Western philosophers of yore also believed in the transmigration of soul, but for them it was associated with the concept of the immortality of soul. In Indian tradition, on the other hand, transmigration is an essential concomitant of the doctrine of karma, according to which every action, physical or mental, has its own consequence which must be faced immediately or in future, either in this life or in the hereafter, good actions leading to a favourable reward and bad actions entailing punishment. The individual soul tjivatma), so it is believed, does not perish with the physical body but dons a new corporeal vesture in a new birth which is determined by its karma in the preceding births. Every new birth in its turn necessarily involves new karma or action leading to further consequences. Jivatma is thus tied to a karmik chakra or an endless cycle of birthactiondeathrebirth, until the chain is broken and karmik accumulation is dissipated and thejiva attains muktior moksa, i.e. liberation or release from transmigration. The origin of the idea of transmigration is traced back to the postVedic period. The early Aryans simply believed that good men ascended to heaven to join company with the gods while the souls of the wicked sank.down into the abyss of hell. The postulate that there is no unmerited happiness and unmerited misery and that the individual soul takes after death a new existence during which it reaps what, good or bad, it had sown earlier was first propounded in the ^atpatha Brahmana, one of the several commentaries that preceded the appearance of the Upanisads. Since then in India the highest spiritual goal has been the release of thejivatma from the cycle of birth and death or avagaman (lit. coming and going).


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## Sikh80 (Dec 31, 2007)

Different traditions within the Indian religious systems offer different analyses and correspondingly different solutions. One view is that since transmigration is subject to karma or actions, the cycle can be broken only through the annihilation or karma. Various methods have been suggested to achieve this end such as renunciation, nonaction, ritualism and gian (jnana) or philosophical and metaphysical knowledge. The doctrines of transmigration of soul and karma are accepted in the SIKH system, but with significant individual shades and emphases. Karma, it is true, determines its own consequence : jehe karma kamai teha hoisias one acts so shall one be (GG, 730). However, karma as part of the Divine Order (HUKAM) is a natural compulsion and hence is unavoidable. What is needed, therefore, is not annihilation of karma through nonaction, but doing good deeds and avoiding evil ones. Men are naturally endowed with power to discriminate between good and evil. Human life is on this account a valuable chance not to be frittered away. GURU NANAK warns : suni sunisikh hamari sukritu kitarahasimerejiare bahuri na aval van Listen, listen to my advice, 0 my Mind ! Only good deeds shall endure, and there may not be another chance (GG, 154).


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## Sikh80 (Dec 31, 2007)

Says Guru ARJAN :" milujagadls milan ki bana chirankal ih deh sanjana do meet the Lord of the Universe, for now is the time. After ages (passing through many different forms) have you attained the gift of human life" (GG, 176). Here in the world man has the opportunity to achieve ethical perfection, cherish the Lord and earn final release. Secondly, what lies at the root of the problem is not karma, but haumai, i.e. egoity or the sense of Iness. Jivatma (individual soul) is a spark or ray of the Ineffable Spirit, Paramatma, and its deliverance lies in its reunion with its source. What hinders such reunion is thejiva`s egoism. The jiva confined in its narrow shell and devoid of understanding of the infiniteness of Reality claims for itself a separate, individuated existence. It is haumai that robs a jiva`s karma or potential merit. Even the holiest of acts would not avail when accompanied by haumai or selfconceit. Says Guru Arjan, Nanak V : "jojo karam kie hau haumai te te bhae a/aeAll actions performed in ego go waste," (GG, 999) and "apas kau karamvantu kahavai, janami marai bahujoni bhramavaiAs long as he (jiva) thinks he is the doer, so long shall he continue wandering through wombs and births" (GG, 278).


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## Sikh80 (Dec 31, 2007)

What is needed is not annihilation of karma, but the conquest of haumai. This is done through right understanding of hukam (Divine Order), and the sabad (Divine Word) itself. As says Guru Amar Das, Nanak III, "ham kia ham karahage ham murakh gavar karnaivala visaria dujai bhai piaru Utterly misguided are they who, filled with ego lay out many claims for what has been done and for what remains to be done, forgetting the one who guides all of our actions, and falling a prey to illusion and duality" (GG, 39). When haumai is overcome and actions are dedicated to God, individuation ceases and die soul merges into the Absolute Beings. Another Sikh principle having bearing on the concept of transmigradon is that of nadar. Divine Order (hukam) although generally immutable is yet tempered by nadar or Divine Grace. The law of transmigration of soul, too, does not condemn a soul to irrevocable predestination and eternal karmik chakra. God`s nadar (lit. favourable glance) can at any stage redeem a soul and release it forever from the circuit of avagaman or transmigration. MUKTI or deliverance from the bondage of birth and death, according to Sikh belief, is not condngent upon the end to the present life. With God`s grace one can be a.jivanmukta, emancipated while still living. What is required of the seeker of nadar is to behave and act in such a way that he qualifies himself for His grace. Thus while karma is necessary and good deeds helpful, liberation finally comes through nadar. Says Guru Nanak in the JAPU, "karmi avai kapra nadan mokhu duaru body is determined by karma, but through nadar is found the door to liberation" (GG,2). There is nothing dreadful as such about birth and death, i.e. transmigration, although to transcend the cycle is ever the soul`s goal. Birth and death are part of hukam and are to be accepted as His raza or Will. Guru Nanak says : "jammanu mama hukamu pachhanuknow that birth and death are by His hukam alone," (GG, 412)


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## Sikh80 (Dec 31, 2007)

Again, "jammanu marana hukamu hai bhanai avaijai birth and death are by His hukam; by His Will does one come and go" (GG, 472). Besides being in tune with the Divine Will and practising humility and truth, the jiva is urged, in SIKHISM, to take shelter in nam or sabda. Without savouring nam one wanders endlessly from birth to birth. Says Guru Nanak "gur kau jani na janai kia tisu chaju acharu andhulai namu visaria manmukhi andh gubaru avanujanu na chukal marijanamai hoi khuaruThey who have not cherished the Guru nor realized nam will continue to transmigrate" (GG, 19). 1. Sabadarth Sri Guru GRANTH Sahib. AMRITSAR, 1959
2. Jodh SINGH, Bhai, Gurmati Nimaya. LAHORE, 1932
3. Caveeshar, Sardul Singh, Sikh Dharam Darsha.n. PATIALA, 1969
4. Sher Singh, The Philosophy of Sikhism. Lahore, 1944
5. Wazir Singh, Philosophy of Sikh Religion. Delhi, 1981


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## Sikh80 (Dec 31, 2007)

*Extracts Of Post............*****
naam binaa nahee chhootas naanak saachee tar too taaree. ||9||7||

without the NAAM, no one is saved; o nanak, with the TRUTH, cross over to the other side. ||9||7||
[SGGS, pg 1013]
. . . . . . . . . . .

i believe an answer lies deep in that shabad. the way i understand that shabad is that the word 'saved' is used to refer to what lies beyond this mortal life which sikhs and hindus refer to 'freedom from transmigration' while the christians ans muslims would refer the word 'saved' to heaven or hell.

the guru says that without the loving devotion of the LORD, one cannot be saved. the other side has been interpreted differently by different faiths. whatever the other side be, the religions will agree that without devotion to the LORD, it cannot be achieved.

in sikhism, we have the shabad 'gur parsad' which means 'by the grace of the guru'. whatever question it may be or help one may seek to reach GOD, the true guru [ satguru ] is the only guide. the best we can do is follow with diligence the path laid down by our gurus.

guru nanak, in japji reveals the message:

. . . . . . 
mat vich ratan javahar manik je ik gur ki sikh suni' [6]

if one listens to to the instructions of the guru, the reason becomes adorned with gems, rubies and diamonds.
. . . . . .

so, the answer to your questions lie in gurbani. study the gurbani diligently for the treasure of answers lie there.
Re: Transmigration of the soul in Sikhism


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## Sikh80 (Dec 31, 2007)

* God's purpose in creating *man?It may never be possible to understand fully God's purpose in creating man, but prophets have told us something about man's goal. It is generally accepted that God's purpose is for man to realize his divine inheritance while living in this mortal frame. 

God made man in His own image. He put His divine spark in man which is called "The Soul". The soul enters bodily forms according to individual's actions. The wall of ego separates the soul from God. This leads to the cycle of birth and death. Metempsychosis can only be ended through meditation or the acquisition of divine grace. 
God is not a cruel monster out for sport with mortals. On the contrary, He is like a benevolent father. He gave man a good start in this life by providing him with all the needs for his upkeep at the time of birth. Just as the body is sustained by food and drink, in the same way the soul is nourished by virtue and devotion. When the soul progresses with the performance of good deeds and the remembrance of The Name, it becomes more worthy of a merger to Divinity. 
Man is a focal point in the universe. He is the apex of creation, the final stage. Human life is the starting point for God-realization. You cannot own salvation as an animal or stone. Only human life, offers this grand opportunity for spiritual attainment. 
Man is made of spirit and matter: shiv and shakti. The spirit is subtle, while the body is gross. The body has to be cared for, because it houses the soul. A house-holder's life is the best life because it offers scopre for acts of charity and social service. Escapism or ascetisism is not advocated by Sikh religion. 
Life may be compared to a game of chess or cards. Where the individual does not frame the rules or control the game. The cards are given to him; it is upto him to play the cards well or badly, wisely or foolishly. God watches over him and will reward him according to his efforts. In the ultimate analysis, human life is a rich gift, not something to be flittered away in frivolity. If one fails here, one has to go through the cycle of birth and death. It is man's option(what he can) to save himself from this chain of transmigration

articlehttp://www.gurmat.info/sms/smspublications/introductiontosikhism2/chapter2.html#What%20is%20the%20concept%20of%20Truth%20in%20Sikhism?


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## Sikh80 (Dec 31, 2007)

*Khushwant Singh and His Continuing Distortion of Sikhism *​*- Baldev Singh *

http://www.sikhspectrum.com/052007/khushwant.htm
http://www.sikhspectrum.com/052007/khushwant.htm


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## spnadmin (Jan 1, 2008)

Sikh80 ji

Say what one will --  You have given us a great gift on New Year's day by creating a thread about the subject of transmigration. It is so clear, so convincing, so faithful to scripture, so motivating to live life fully and live it as we best can. Every paragraph teaches a lesson. Please tell us who the author was. Was it Baldev Singh? 

Thank you so much.


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## Astroboy (Jan 1, 2008)

The yeaning for sangam, milaap, or se-maa-jau feeling one has is already in itself the purest prayer. No words are needed for that.

So where does language leave us ? High and dry ?

No necessarily. Because words were created to express this same feeling - but they don't come close to the original. On the contrary, they could be even misleading. To improve the outer effect of the inner expression, hence came about the creation of acts, dramas and plays.

Every individual has this inner feeling to be one with that which gives us joy, happiness, tranquility and perfection. But alas, they search it in all the wrong directions. 

So what is the right direction ? I mean the direction where all these qualities give total and complete satisfaction which should be everlasting.

Is this satisfaction sensual like sex? No - because external stimuli have a very short span of providing pleasure. 

But I am amazed as why so much is talked about in a parallel way about love for a spouse and love for God. 

Psychologically, they have been inter-woven so intensely that one can't help giving equal or even greater importance to this temporal physical relationship.

Ha Ha Haaaa


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

Aad ji,
My contribution to thread is, as usual, is nil a Big ZERO.I am just doing copy pasting. It is good to learn that some intelligent people care for that is posted.
I am thankful to you for your kind and encouraging words.


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

Namjap ji,
Wishing yo a very happy new year it is submit that there acn be no language to express the basic feelings or even a minute particle nature.

Can someone even describe the color of an apple? I could not do it? You may like to try. Words are,may be, in close proximity but they cannot state the original feeling. You are cent percent right ,Sir.


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

aad ji/namjap ji.

The thread has some questions unanswered. 
1.At what time the soul re-enters the new Body?
2.In case the soul does not get the new Body, where does it stay during the intermittent period?

3. What decides as to the soul will take up the body of woman or a man.?

4. I have an idea that it is stated in Gurbani, I shall have to dig the SGGS ji, that it is clearly stated as to when the man will be born as a woman in the next birth.I am not 100 percent sure. But will check it and let you know.
5
At what time the soul enters the new body, at the time of conception itself that is zeroth /1st day.? May be there is some answer with science.

Regards.


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## Astroboy (Jan 1, 2008)

Sikh80 Ji,

A glimpse of how we perceive truth. 

We express ourselves thru our mind and physical body. The result is strife and dissappointments. Let us consider how we can conquer our mind and change our hearts. Man is composed of body, mind (intellect) and soul. We have to develop all around. 

To achieve this end, we must have an ethical or moral life which is a stepping stone to spirituality. Guru Nanak said, "Victory over the mind is victory over the world."

If we direct our attention toward soul, we become spiritual; the result will be love and peace. When we liberate ourselves from the bondage mind and matter we find we are conscious entities— souls.

We are, as it were, drops of the ocean of life.Your souls are of God, give unto God. Only the mind asks the questions and is time bound. 

Soul exists beyond the realm of matter, energy, time and space. All of mind's questions are within the dimension of time and space. 

A man who was blind from birth underwent an eye operation, after which he could see. His first experience of space by sight was like as if everything he saw was touching him. He had no concept of distance thru sight. 

Your questions, Sikh80 Ji, are also within the space-time continium therefore what you're reading now is also within the mind world. Of course, there are gifted people who can tell you events in this time-space continium about when soul gets entrapped in the mind world after leaving the ocean of the absolute. But your question requires a precise answer as to when does soul enter the physical body and before that where is it ? It's like asking when will it start raining and where will the first droplet reach the ground. 

Everything works in a random way. Yes I know you need to feed your mind by giving it a visual map. So that you'll move forward and ask the next more difficult question, lol. There is no end to the questions, no matter how much knowledge is gained. 

Life just is. No questions. Try this exercise if you're willing to. Sit in a comfortable chair and take a few deep breaths. Ease yourself on a sturdy but comfortable chair. Relax your body and still your mind as much as you can. You'll definitely come to the conclusion that it is not possible to still the mind. So try this exercise as follows:-

Silently say to yourself, within you :
I am soul, the divine spark of God.
I have a physical body but I know that I am not my body. My body can be in states of health or illness and I can observe its conditions. Since I can observe and perceive myself as a separate entity - it confirms that I am not my physical body.

I am soul, pure consciousness. I have feelings. I can observe my emotions which might be in states of happiness or sadness. But I know I am not my feelings. I am soul, the pure consciousness of God.

I have a mind. I know I am not the mind. The mind oftens refuses to obey me. Therefore I cannot be my mind. I am above the mind. I am in control. I am soul. I am my trueself, a drop of the ocean of my Creator.

Bhai Baljit Singh Namdhari - Mat Dekh Bhoola

Happy New Year 2008.


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

Transmigration of soul is the unexplored area for both Hinduism and sikhism.Anyone who has access to some literature may kindly post here.


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

It is once again requested to the members to kindly contribute to the development of this thread as it has not found adequate coverage.
Thanks.


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

*http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Soul*

*Soul*

The *soul* according to Sikhism is an entity in our body because of which the body can sustain life. On the departure of this entity from the body, the body becomes lifeless - No amount of manipulations to the body can make the person make any physical actions. The soul is the ‘driver’ in the body. It is the ‘roohu’ or *spirit*, the presence of which makes the physical body alive. 

*SGGS Page 19*Full Shabad​The empty body is dreadful, when the soul goes out from within.
sunjee dayh daraavanee jaa jee-o vichahu jaa-ay. 
The burning fire of life is extinguished, and the smoke of the breath no longer emerges. 
bhaahi balandee vijhvee Dhoo-o na niksi-o kaa-ay. 
The five relatives (the senses) weep and wail painfully, and waste away through the love of duality. 
panchay runnay dukh bharay binsay doojai bhaa-ay. ​


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

Many religious and philosophical traditions, support the view that the *soul is the ethereal substance* — a *spirit*; a *non material spark* — particular to a unique living being. Such traditions often consider the soul both immortal and innately aware of its immortal nature, as well as the true basis for sentience in each living being. The *concept of the soul has strong links with notions of an afterlife*, but opinions may vary wildly even within a given religion as to what happens to the soul after death. Many within these religions and philosophies see the soul as immaterial, while others consider it possibly material. 

In Hinduism, the Sanskrit word most closely corresponding to soul is "Atman", which can mean soul or even God. It is seen as the portion of Brahman within us. Hinduism contains many variant beliefs on the origin, purpose, and fate of the soul. For example, advaita or non-dualistic conception of the soul accords it union with Brahman, the absolute uncreated (roughly, the Godhead), in eventuality or in pre-existing fact. Dvaita or dualistic concepts reject this, instead identifying the soul as a different and incompatible substance.


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

*TRANSMIGRATION OF THE SOUL* is the doctrine of rebirth based on the theory that an *individual soul passes at death into a new body or new form of life*. Central to the concept is the principle of universal causality; i.e. a person must receive reward or punishment if not here and now then in a subsequent birth, for his actions in the present one. The soul, it is held, does not cease with the physical body, but takes on a new birth in consequence of the person’s actions comprising thoughts, words and deeds. The cumulative effect of these determines his next existence. Attached to worldly objects, man will continue in the circuit of *birth-death-rebirth* until he attains spiritual liberation, annulling the effect of his past actions.


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

Belief in reincarnation is basic to the eschatology of all religions of Indian origin including Sikhism ans Hinduism. Some Western philosophers of yore also believed in the transmigration of soul, but for them it was associated with the concept of the immortality of soul. In Indian tradition, on the other hand, transmigration is an essential concomitant of the doctrine of karma, according to which every action, physical or mental, has its own consequence which must be faced immediately or in future, either in this life or in the hereafter, good actions leading to a favourable reward and bad actions entailing punishment. The individual soul (jvatma), so it is believed, does not perish with the physical body but dons a new corporeal vesture in a new birth which is determined by its karma in the preceding births. Every new birth in its turn necessarily involves new karma or action leading to further consequences. Jivatma is thus tied to a karmik chakra or an endless cycle of birth-action-death-rebirth, until the chain is broken and karmik accumulation is dissipated and the jiva attains mukti or moksa, i.e. *liberation or release from transmigration*.


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

The origin of the idea of transmigration is traced back to the post-Vedic period. The early Aryans simply believed that good men ascended to heaven to join company with the gods while the souls of the wicked sank down into the abyss of hell. The postulate that there is no unmerited happiness and unmerited misery and that the individual soul takes after death a new existence during which it reaps what, good or bad, it had sown earlier was first propounded in the Satpatha Brahmana, one of the several commentaries that preceded the appearance of the Upanisads. Since then in India the highest spiritual goal has been the *release of the jivatma from the cycle of birth and death* or avagaman (literally: *coming and going*). Different traditions within the Indian religious systems offer different analyses and correspondingly different solutions. One view is that since transmigration is subject to karma or actions, the cycle can be broken only through the annihilation or karma. Various methods have been suggested to achieve this end such as renunciation, non-action, ritualism and gian (jnana) or philosophical and metaphysical knowledge.


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

The doctrines of transmigration of soul and karma are accepted in the Sikh system, but with significant individual shades and emphases. Karma, it is true, determines its own consequence: *jehe karma kamai teha hoisi—as one acts so shall one be* - "According to the actions one has committed, so does the mortal become." (GG, 730). However, karma as part of the Divine Order (hukam) is a natural compulsion and hence is unavoidable. What is needed, therefore, is not annihilation of karma through non-action, but doing good deeds and avoiding evil ones. Men are naturally endowed with power to discriminate between good and evil. Human life is on this account a valuable chance not to be frittered away. Guru Nanak warns: *suni suni sikh hamari sukritu kita rahasi mere jiare bahuri na avai vari* — "Listen, listen to my advice, O my Mind! Only good deeds shall endure, and there may not be another chance" (GG, 154). Says Guru Arjan: *milu jagadis milan ki baria chirankal ih deh sanjaria* — "do meet the Lord of the Universe, for now is the time. After ages (passing through many different forms) have you attained the gift of human life” (GG, 176). Here in the world man has the opportunity to achieve ethical perfection, cherish the Lord and earn final release.


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

Secondly, what lies at the root of the problem is not karma, but haumai, i.e. egoity or the sense of I-ness. Jivatma (individual soul) is a spark or ray of the Ineffable Spirit, Paramatma, and its deliverance lies in its reunion with its source. What hinders such reunion is the jiva’s egoism. The jiva confined in its narrow shell and devoid of understanding of the infiniteness of Reality claims for itself a separate, individuated existence. It is haumai that robs a jiva’s karma or potential merit. Even the holiest of acts would not avail when accompanied by haumai or self-conceit. Says Guru Arjan, Nanak V: *jo jo karam kie hau haumai te te bhae ajae* — "All actions performed in ego go waste,” (GG, 999) and *apas kau karamvantu kahavai, janami marai bahu joni bhramavai* — "As long as he (jiva) thinks he is the doer, so long shall he continue wandering through wombs and births” (GG, 278). 

What is needed is not annihilation of karma, but the conquest of haumai. This is done through right understanding of hukam (Divine Order), and the sabad (Divine Word) itself. As says Guru Amar Das, Nanak III, *ham kia ham karahage ham murakh gavar karnaivala visaria dujai bhai piaru* — "Utterly misguided are they who, filled with ego lay out many claims for what has been done and for what remains to be done, forgetting the one who guides all of our actions, and falling a prey to illusion and duality” (GG, 39). When haumai is overcome and actions are dedicated to God, individuation ceases and the soul merges into the Absolute Beings.


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

Another Sikh principle having bearing on the concept of transmigration is that of nadar. Divine Order (hukam) although generally immutable is yet tempered by nadar or Divine Grace. The law of transmigration of soul, too, does not condemn a soul to irrevocable predestination and eternal karmik chakra. God’s nadar (literally: favourable glance) can at any stage redeem a soul and release it forever from the circuit of avagaman or *transmigration*. Mukti or deliverance from the bondage of birth and death, according to Sikh belief, is not contingent upon the end to the present life. With God’s grace one can be a jivan-mukta, emancipated while still living. What is required of the seeker of nadar is to behave and act in such a way that he qualifies himself for His grace. Thus while karma is necessary and good deeds helpful, liberation finally comes through nadar. Says Guru Nanak in the Japji, *karmi avai kapra nadari mokhu duaru*— "body is determined by karma, but through nadar is found the door to liberation” (GG,


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

There is nothing dreadful as such about birth and death, i.e. transmigration, although to transcend the cycle is ever the soul’s goal. Birth and death are part of hukam and are to be accepted as His raza or Will. Guru Nanak says: *jammanu marna hukamu pachhanu* — "know that birth and death are by His hukam alone,” (GG, 412). Again, *jammanu marana hukamu hai bhanai avai jai* — "birth and death are by His hukam; by His Will does one come and go” (GG, 472). Besides being in tune with the Divine Will and practising humility and truth, the jiva is urged, in Sikhism, to take shelter in nam or sabda. Without savouring nam one wanders endlessly from birth to birth. Says Guru Nanak *gur kau jani na janai kia tisu chaju acharu andhulai namu visaria manmukhi andh gubaru avanu janu na chukai mari janamai hoi kahuaru* — "They who have not cherished the Guru nor realized nam will continue to transmigrate” (GG, 19). 
http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Soul


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

*Does Sikhism Believe in Reincarnation?*
Baldev Singh

Only recently have I replied to this excellent question asked by a reader from Canada. Since this question has been raised again, I am going to dig deeper to answer it. Before I came on the scene to interpret Guru Nanak’s teachings, numerous other scholars who have studied Aad Guru Granth Sahib (AGGS) concluded that Guru Nanak rejected the doctrines of “karma and reincarnation.” Moreover, to understand this better one needs to comprehend what constitute the _Varna Ashrama Dharma_/caste system. Together the caste along with the karma and reincarnation (or transmigration) constitutes the three external pillars of the caste system arranged on a hierarchical pyramid structure. In other words, both _Karma_ and reincarnation are part of the invented trilogy and they both are designed to justify the caste base factor. Because of the time and space constraints, I will bypass addressing the internal pillars of Hinduism designed to augment and perpetuate the caste system. 

for the rest Of article please refer:
Does Sikhism Believe in Reincarnation?


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

Adi Granth and Dasam Granth, a comparison: similarity...
1.
2.
3.
4.

5. Both believe in the law of karma and transmigration
   of soul.

for complete article :
Sikh Gurus


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Sikhism and Other Religions
Hinduism*[/FONT]

*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bani Concerning Hinduism

[/FONT]*
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Similarities*[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Reincarnation
Like Hinduism Sikhims believes in the transmigration of the soul. There are countless cycles of births and deaths. One only breaks this cycle when they achieve mukhti (merger with God) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Karma
Karma regulates the reincarnation and transmigration of the soul, Sikhism links Karma with the doctrine of Grace.[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_"Mortals obtain a human body as a result of good deeds but he reaches the gate ofsalvation with God's kind grace." (Guru Nanak, Japji)_[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Maya
The world is just an illusion and some get enchanted with this illusion and forget God[/FONT] 
*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Differences[/FONT]*

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Sikhism rejects polytheism and accepts monotheism. Whereas Sikhism starts with one God and universalizes Him, Hinduism starts with many Gods and occasionally gives glimpses of 'One'. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_"I do not accept Ganesha as important. I do not meditate on Krishna, neither on Vishnu. I do not hear them and do not recognize them. My love is with the Lotus feet of God. He is my protector, the Supreme Lord. I am dust of his Lotus feet." (Guru Gobind Singh, Krishna Avatar)_[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Authority of the Vedas and the belief that the truth revealed in them is absolute and that reading them one can realize perfection.[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_"I have read all the Vedas, but my mind's separation from God is not removed and the five demons of my house (body) are stilled not even for an instant." (Guru Arjan Dev, Ashtpadis, pg. 687)_[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Sikhism does not recognize any priestly class.[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_"Kabir, the Brahman may be the Guru of the world, but he is not the Guru of the saints. He rots to death in the perplexities of the four Vedas" (Bhagat Kabir, Salok, pg. 1377)_[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Rejection of the Ashrama Dharma theory of dividing man's life into four stages. Instead the Gurus emphasized living the householders life. Rejection of the Varna distinction of division of human society into higher and lower castes.[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_"There are four castes of the literates, warriors, cultivators and menials and the four stages of life. He who meditates on the Lord is the most distinguished amongst men." (Guru Ram Das, Gond, pg. 861)_[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_"The Lord asks not mortals caste and birth, so find thou out the Lord's True Home (truth). That alone is man's caste and that his glory, as are the deeds which he does." (Guru Nanak, Parbhati, pg. 1330)_[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] The Gurus rejected the Avtara theory of the incarnations of God. The Gurus not only exposed the mortality of these gods but used stories to illustrate moral values, such as 'pride leads to a fall' illustrated by the story of Harnakhash, untouchability becoming superior through devotion to God by Krishna stories and stories where Bhrahma, Vishnu and Shiva are shown to be ordinary mortals. The Gurus stressed that there is only one God and that these gods and goddeses were not true.[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_"In every age, the Lord creates the kings, who are sung of as His incarnations. Even they have not found His limits." (Guru Amar Das, Ashtpadis, pg. 423)_[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_"Millions of incarnations of Vishnu and Shiv, with matted hair Desire Thee, O Kind Lord, with endless longing of their mind and body. Infinite and Inaccessible is Lord, the World Sustainer, and He is the Omnipresent wealthy Master. The gods, perfect persons, heavenly heralds and celestial singers contemplate on Thee. The greater gods and heavenly dancers utter Thine praises. Myrids of kings, gods and many super human beings remember the Lord and hail Him." (Guru Arjan Dev, Chhant, pg. 455)_[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Worship of idols and images.[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_"The blind ignorant ones stray in doubt and so deluded, deluded they pluck flowers for worship. They worship the lifeless stones and adore tombs. Their service all goes in vain." (Guru Ram Das, Malar, pg. 1264)_[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_"They who say the stone is a god; in vain is their service. He who falls at the feet of the stone; vain goes his labour. My Lord ever speaks. The Lord gives gifts to all the living beings. The Lord is within, but the blind one knows not. Deluded by doubt, he is caught in a noose. The stone speaks not, nor gives anything. In vain are the ceremonies of the idolater, and fruitless his service." (Guru Arjan Dev, Bhairo, pg. 1160)_[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] The Gita and Vedanta goal of a Mukt. Once he achieves salvation he does not live for the community. In Sikhism the Gurmukh achieving salvation lives to save others.[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_"Abandon lust, wrath, avarice and worldly love. Thus be rid of both birth and death. Distress and darkness shall depart from thy home, when, within thee, the Guru implants wisdom and lights the Divine lamp. He, who serves the Lord crosses the sea of life. Through the Guru, O slave Nanak, the entire world is saved." (Guru Arjan Dev, Gauri, pg. 241)_[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Belief that reading of the six Shastras and their mastery will bring salvation.[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_"The greatly voluminous Simirtis and Shastras stretch out the extension of worldly love. The fools read them, but know not their Lord. Some rare one knows Him by the Guru's grace. Of Himself the Creator does and makes others do. By means of the True Bani, He implants truth within the mortal." (Guru Amar Das, Maru, pg. 1053)_[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_"Many Shashtras and many Simirtis have I seen and searched them all. Nanak, they equal not Lord God's invaluable Name." (Guru Arjan Dev, Gauri, pg. 265)_[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Rejection of Sanskrit or any language as being sacred.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

The Sikhism Home Page: Sikhism and Other Religions


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

For a detailed comparison with other religions and beliefs about transmigration of Soul and other facts.


http://www.greatcom.org/resources/handbook_of_todays_religions/03chap10/default.htm


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

Human life is just a stage in the upward march of the soul. The individual has got birth as a human being, after going through lower forms of life. Human life is the final stage in the soul's progress to divinity. It is for us to make the most of this opportunity and thereby end our cycle of transmigration. 
Death means the destruction of the physical self. The ashes and bone dust mix with the elements. But the soul which leaves the body, awaits a new dwelling. Just as a person casts off worn-out garments and puts on other that are new, so the subtle soul casts off the worn-out body and dwells in a new form. If there were no continuance of the soul after death, how could it become perfect to merit union with the Almighty? 
Sikhism believes in the immortality of the soul. The devotee has no fear of the pangs of death. In fact he welcomes death, because it gives him a chance for the merger into Divinity. The evil person, however, dreads death. For him, it will lead to the unending cycle of birth and death. After death, man comes to the next birth according to what he deserves. If he has been wicked and evil, he takes birth in the lower species. If he has done good deeds, he takes birth in a good family. The cycle of birth and death keeps the soul away from Divinity. It can merge with God, only if the individual, by spiritual effort, has amassed the capital of the Name(the Holy spirit as understood by Christians) and thus lives with the Holy Spirit. 
Guru Arjan in the Sukhmani dwells on the sad plight of the soul which is not endowed with the Name. The soul in its lonely march through darkness can only find sustenance in the word of God. Otherwise it feels the weariness and pain of isolation. 
The soul, Jiva, is a part of God. It is deathless like Him. Before creation, it lived with God. After Creation it takes bodily forms according to His Will. The soul is, however, nourished by virtue and meditation on "The name". The transmigration of the soul can come to an end by meditation and divine grace.


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

*Re-Incarnation And Transmigration

*With the theory of Karma is associated the theory of rebirth. It is based on the conception that there is an intrinsic spiritual value in the soul of man, which guarantees its everlasting existence. Every creature is an organic part of the creation as a whole.

The conservation of spiritual values is also based on this idea.

In Sikh Way of Life there are two distinct doctrines which fall under the category of rebirth. When a soul passes from one human life to another, in its moral and spiritual progress, it goes on acquiring human births till it acquires Nirvana.

Such a rebirth is a blessing and gift of God. It means God out of His mercy and compassion has given us one more opportunity to fulfill our ultimate destiny and the seeker of Truth cries out, when He is at His door : "For many lives I have been separated from Thee, 0 Beloved. This life is dedicated to Thee, and Thy Love. (bahut janam bichre the madho eh janam tumare lekhe. Ravi Das panna 694).

Human life is an opportunity to rise to God and Heaven or fall into the hell of births and deaths. We exercise our free will within the limits of birth and death in our pilgrimage to Truth. That is why human life is called a very precious life (durlabh- manns-janam).

This reincarnation is in the ascending order till man completely eliminates rebirth. Through the Guru's word is rebirth eliminated"( sidh gost ) It is "God who created lower lives and the cycle of births and deaths."(avagaun tudh ap racaya- Asa di var) It is the path of thorns leading to the valley of flowers.

The Buddha is said to have passed through many births, stories about which are preserved in the Jatakas, and Avadans. Guru Gobind Singh Jee speaks of his past birth "as a great Yogi meditating in the Himalayas till His Spirit attained perfect union with God, and was sent as the torch bearer of Truth and Dharma."(Bachiter Natik)

Every man can cut asunder the bounds of birth and death during human life, and attain perfection. This hope is extended by the Sikh Gurus to the lowliest of the low, to every human being living on the planet, no matter what his status, color of the skin or nationality and race.

The Chains are cut asunder, Rebirth has ended, The mind is conquered and victory achieved. .Adi Granth, Guru Arjan : Bavan Akhari 38


Rebirth in the descending order is a punishment and a curse. The soul passes through animal lives suffering untold agonies. As a beast of burden he carries the load of his sins, without any opportunity to get out of his present predicament. This is transmigration avagavan. The wicked become victims of the wheel of sorrow.( haumai hoi bandhana, phir joni pahi, Asa- Di- Var).

[naamnet] 3.4 - Re-incarnation And Transmigration - The Voice of Sikh Youth


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## Sikh80 (Jan 1, 2008)

The Sikhs believe in the evolution of soul. The good or bad deeds done by any person affect his soul and cause it to have some characteristics peculiar to it. These characteristics determine the future course of the soul. Thieves, for instance, rarely desist from theft because of the inclinations of their soul created by frequent acts of theft. Since the Sikhs believe that a soul never dies so the effects of the actions follow the soul like a shadow. According to Sikhism salvation or deliverance from these impressions can be obtained through good deeds as well as by the grace of God's name. Guru Nanak explains this point clearly as follows:- 
"The mind is the paper on which are recorded our deeds good and bad, as the course of our cumulative actions dictate. But the Almighty is merciful for He can turn dross into gold and extinguish all our passions, and wanderings."​The Sikhs do not believe in predestined or pre ordained course of the soul. Our present action coupled with God's grace can change the course and set us on a new road. The sum total of our present actions can over-ride the past impressions and efface them altogether. Virtue or sin, therefore, is in the hands of the individuals. In the company of saints and by acting on the Guru's advice, the Sikhs change the course of their soul and as Bhai Gurdas puts it: "Take the high way and avoid narrow lanes." The whole idea is summed up by Guru Nanak in Japji as follows:- 
"We so not become saints or sinners 
By merely saying that we are: 
It is the actions that are recorded. 
According to the seed we sow, is the fruit we reap. 
By God's grace, O Nanak; 
Man must either be saved or transmigrate."​In order to deserve God's grace, the Guru outlines the course of eradicating lust, anger, greed, infatuation and ego, and act in His will remembering Him every moment of life. The householder deserves grace as much as a hermit and there is no need to renounce the world. "He sends His grace to those who work at self-purification through obedience to the Holy word for which the virtues, such as purity, patience, and love are needed which are to be hammered out in our daily dealings with others, with constant suffering and sacrifice. Here we have to choose between God and the false pretty self, and according to our choice our future state will be a sad wandering in the darkness of ignorance of blissful residence with God. Those who succeed in doing so, their faces glow in the very light of God's own presence." 

http://www.gurmat.info/sms/smspublications/introductiontosikhism/chapter4.html#Do%20the%20Sikhs%20believe%20in%20transmigration%20of%20soul?


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## Astroboy (Jan 1, 2008)

Sikh80,

Thank you for sharing. You are a real seeker who is going thru the same steps as every seeker does. 
As seekers of truth, we find ourselves separated from the masses. Finding a true friend is rare. Loneliness is the universal feeling that increases the need to belong. You have the invisible friend with you always. In fact, you are God himself experiencing the journey thru this long silk road. *Without you, nothing can exist.* It is God's wish - who is beyond the realms of _matter, energy, space and time_ - to experience Himself within this realm of MEST. 

Why you're facing an ordeal now is because, once you step within the boundaries of space and time, there is a loss of memory. Therefore, you have programmed yourself to remind *your ownself* that the drama set in front of you is but an illusion -because there's a footnote saying, "God helping himself in his camping trip". 

Anekh Hain Phir Ek Hai.

Mann Tu Jyot Swaroop Hai,
Apna Mool Pachaan.

More Later.

Santokh Singh
(Malaysia)


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## Sikh80 (Jan 2, 2008)

As a fundamental fact of human existence, death is a theme that is common to both poetry and prophecy. While these two universal genres of discourse differ significantly, both confirm the importance of the remembrance of death (dhikr al-mawt). 
The Koran has been described as an Apocalypse, a grand vision of the eschaton, the end of time. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) often spoke solemnly of "the taste of death." Once, passing by a gathering of merrymakers, he said, "Disturb your laughter by recalling the spoiler of pleasures!" "And what is the spoiler of pleasure?" they asked. "Death." 

Consider now Persian poetry. Omar Khayyam - who was as popular in Victorian England as Rumi is in contemporary America - ruminates frequently about death. Among his rubayyat - some of which Murshid put to music - one reads (in the version of Fitzgerald): 




Awake for Morning in the Bowl of Night 
Has flung the Stone that puts the Stars to Flight: 
And Lo! the Hunter of the East has caught 
The Sultan's turret in a Noose of Light. 


Dreaming when Dawn's Left Hand was in the Sky, 
I heard a Voice within the Tavern cry, 
"Awake my Little ones and fill the Cup 
Before Life's Liquor in its Cup be dry." 


And as the {censored} crew those who stood before 
The Tavern shouted - "Open then the door! 
You know how little time we have to stay 
And, once departed, may return no more." 

At first blush, the messages of the Prophet Muhammad and the poet Omar Khayyam seem contradictory. The Prophet says "disturb your laughter," while the poet says "fill the cup." One seems to command sober introspection, while the other recommends joie de vivre. 

Yet perhaps the two messages are not as inconsistent as they appear. No doubt the tone is different - as Nietzsche would put it, one is Apollonian and the other Dionysian. Nonetheless, both call the hearer to awaken in the here and now. The hadith of the Prophet is about the superficiality of frivolity. Incapable of true joy, the merrymakers fritter away precious moments in vulgar, self-absorbed inanities. The best cure for them is the remembrance of the mortality of the body. Similarly, Omar Khayyam invokes the looming presence of death as a reminder to live life to its fullest. Wine, the fermented juice of crushed and mingled grapes, bespeaks the nectar of life, the sweet and intoxicating essence of human experience. Drink in now, he urges, this very moment.

SOI : Teachings : Feature


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## Astroboy (Jan 2, 2008)

YouTube - Mavlana Jalaludin Balkhi (Rumi) Tajik-- poem in English

If you can't watch Youtube on your computer, see it from another computer. This is really beautiful.


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## Sikh80 (Jan 3, 2008)

'Naa ko bairi, naheen bigaana[FONT=Book Antiqua,Times New Roman]' (GGS:1299). [None is my enemy; none is a stranger.][/FONT]

Dear namjap ji,
Have you really reached the above state!!!!!!


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## Astroboy (Jan 3, 2008)

Sikh80 said:


> 'Naa ko bairi, naheen bigaana[FONT=Book Antiqua,Times New Roman]' (GGS:1299). [None is my enemy; none is a stranger.][/FONT]
> 
> Dear namjap ji,
> Have you really reached the above state!!!!!!


 
On the way !!!!!

Does that mean I don't feel angry ?
I do feel angry but it is more of a dissappointment than outburst anger. 

Does that mean I don't try to see another's point of view ? 
I try my best. I guess it's the journey that matters (with the goal in mind). 

Has the journey ended ? 
No. 

Will this motto make me a passive person ?
No. In fact it gives me strength to stick to principles, rules and regulations.

How has this motto helped me ?
By making me respect people from all walks of life, regardless of lifestyle.
By reminding me to live life like a lotus flower - above the waves of the water.
It reminds me of TEN THINGS GOD WON'T ASK ON THAT DAY
What's your next question ?


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## Sikh80 (Jan 4, 2008)

Checked up the link that you have put in the post.It is nice.Put it in the thread ,it shall do good to many.
Accept my congrat for refining or purifying or cleansing. You are a very humble person ,Sir.


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## Astroboy (Jan 5, 2008)

Here it is :-

*TEN THINGS GOD WON'T ASK ON THAT DAY*

1. God won't ask what kind of car you drove, He'll ask how many people you drove who didn't have transportation. 
2. God won't ask the square footage of your house, He'll ask how many people you welcomed into your home. 
3. God won't ask about the clothes you had in your closet, He'll ask how many you helped to clothe. 
4. God won't ask what your highest salary was, He'll ask if you compromised your character to obtain it. 
5. God won't ask what your job title was, He'll ask if you performed your job to the best of our ability. 
6. God won't ask how many friends you had, He'll ask how many people to whom you were a friend. 
7. God won't ask in what neighborhood you lived, He'll ask how you treated your neighbors. 
8. God won't ask about the color of your skin, He'll ask about the content of your character. 
9. God won't ask why it took you so long to seek Salvation, He'll lovingly take you to your mansion in heaven, and not to the gates of Hell. 
10. God won't have to ask how many people you forwarded this to, He already knows whether or not you are ashamed to share this information with your friends. IT ISN'T THE AMOUNT YOU HAVE TRAVELED THAT COUNTS. IT IS THE DIRECTION IN WHICH YOU ARE TRAVELING!!!! 
​


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## Sikh80 (Jan 5, 2008)

A very beautiful sum up of the performance in life.


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## Amarpal (Jan 6, 2008)

Dear Sikh80 Ji,

Your post said:
'Since then in India the highest spiritual goal has been the release of thejivatma from the cycle of birth and death or avagaman (lit. coming and going)'

I have a doubt about it.

If this was the aim of human life, and assuming that all the beings achieve this goal, then no being will be left in this world. The animated creation of 'The Sat' will come to an end. Why 'The Sat' will seek dissolution of life in what 'The Sat' has created?

In this world capability wise Humans are next to God. We are born to further the cause of 'The Sat'; help evolve and preserve creation. I hold the voew that perpetual all round evolution is the will of God, we humans are the instruments of 'The Sat' of implimentation of the will of 'The Sat'. 

I further hold the view that 'The Sat' does not directly intervenes in worldy affairs. Recoeded history and life of our Guru is proof of it. When Vedvyas wrote in Mahabharat that Lord Krishna will not use weapons, he was telling his readers that Gos doesnot intervenes directly in any ones worldly affairs; the worldly battles we have to fight ourselves. That is what our Gurus did.
'The Sat' is within us. When we awaken to this reality we loose 'I-ness' and then work as instrument of 'The Sat',working for the benefit of the creation of 'The Sat'. To sensetise his Sikhs towards this responsibility in Japji Sahib, Guru Sahib has included a shalok Pawn Guru Pani Pitta---------. I understand this shalok as a pledge to protect the creation of 'The Sat'. 

I understand that working in a selfless manner for entire creation is ultimate aim of human form.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh


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## Sikh80 (Jan 6, 2008)

I have gone thru. your post time and again but could not relate to the values that I have learnt so far. My understanding about sikhi is totally different. You may have the views but these are yours and not necessarily those that are expounded in sikhi. It is summed up as follows:


quote
"The Spiritual philosophy expounded by the Gurbani (Sri Guru Granth Sahib) is monistic. It's primary goal is realizing one's complete identity with the Unconditioned Consciousness (_Akaal Purakh_ or Supreme Reality), in perfect union and non-differentiation. This is termed realization of the Self, _Turiya Avasthaa_, _Sunn Samaadhi_, _Nirvikalap Samaadhi_, _Sahaj Samaadhi_, Divine Vision, _Dasam Duaar_, _Nirvaana_, and so on. This Spiritual experience of free and blissful state of our True Being can be attained in this very life, "here" and "now", granting the so-called liberation — permanent release from unenlightened existence or transmigration; final or eternal emancipation (_Moksha _or _Mokh_, _Mukti_, etc.). "Unquote


You may like to enlighten as to how the views as expressed by you would get fit in the macro level concept that is stated and acepted by many. You must be having very many reasons .Shall be grateful if told.



*source: gurbani.org*


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## Amarpal (Jan 7, 2008)

Dear Sikh80 Ji,

I am nobody to explain what others have understood and accepted. I can only say what I have understood. 

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh


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## drkhalsa (Jan 7, 2008)

> Sikh80 Ji,
> 
> A glimpse of how we perceive truth.
> 
> ...





> Sikh80,
> 
> Thank you for sharing. You are a real seeker who is going thru the same steps as every seeker does.
> As seekers of truth, we find ourselves separated from the masses. Finding a true friend is rare. Loneliness is the universal feeling that increases the need to belong. You have the invisible friend with you always. In fact, you are God himself experiencing the journey thru this long silk road. *Without you, nothing can exist.* It is God's wish - who is beyond the realms of _matter, energy, space and time_ - to experience Himself within this realm of MEST.
> ...



Dear Santokh ji 

I read your above two posts . They were one of your best posts that I have read 

If all you have written is from your own experience than you are really Blessed being !!

Cheers


Jatinder Singh


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## Sikh80 (Jan 7, 2008)

Amarpal said:


> Dear Sikh80 Ji,
> 
> I am nobody to explain what others have understood and accepted. I can only say what I have understood.
> 
> ...


 
Dear Amar ji,

It is ok. if you cannot explain. We will make out what Guru sahibaan have stated.

Regards 
happy


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## Amarpal (Jan 8, 2008)

Dear Sikh80 Ji,

You said 'It is ok. if you cannot explain. We will make out what Guru sahibaan have stated'.

What you had qouted in your earlier post was what persons have understood after considerable effort. They have reached somewhare in the path of spiritual evolution. I respect them. It is not fair for mr to put myself over and above them. For this reason I do not want to eleborate on what you have qouted. I just say what i have understood and leave it to the reader to do the rest. I do try not to argure in this forum. I keep it at discussion level where I say what I understand and provide clarification on what i have said. I read what others say and ask clarifiecations. I avoid arguments

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh


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## Sikh80 (Jan 8, 2008)

Respected Sir,
There is no place for an argument if the discussion is serious. All that I have stated is that your views are slightly different from what an ordinary sikh would have interpolated. It was on this account that a request was made.
Regarding this thread it is believed that many of us are not even clear as to what Bani has to say on Transmigration or reincarnation both of which are entirely two poles apart.You may like to guide us.


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## Ishna (Sep 3, 2011)

Amarpal ji's post #41 absolutely blew my mind.  He has put into better words part of what I've been thinking about lately.

Some threads over the past few months about consonance and the physical world, about creation being an ever-changing manifestation of the Creative Force got me thinking about the universality of physical substance.  When I die, the creative substance that is me will be reabsorbed as raw material into the creative soup.  The carbon of my ashes will be scattered and form a countless number of other things, I can't comprehend.  The physical stuff I am made from has been here since the beginning and will be here until the very end unimaginable.  It is not MY stuff, it belongs to the Universe.

And that got me thinking about the intangible stuff on the inside, and I wondered about my soul and reincarnation, etc.

I read an article quoted earlier in the thread:  Does Sikhism Believe in Reincarnation? by Baldev Singh Ji.  I like his thinking!

However, I feel the thoughts are still incomplete.  To quote from the article:



> Besides, the Sikh Gurus rejected the notion of past life or the life  after death, and made it abundantly clear that the present life is the  only chance to realize God. For example:  O my mind, my dear friend, this is the time for you to meet the Creator.  Moreover, this opportunity will last only as long as the body is  healthy and full of vitality. AGGS, M 1, p. 20  Take advantage of your birth as a human, this is your only opportunity  to meet God.   AGGS, M 5, p. 378  “Don’t look to the past, make efforts to make your future life  successful by meeting God, because you won’t be born again,” says Nanak. AGGS, M 5, p. 1096  “You won’t be born again, take some measures to obtain salvation right  now. Praising the Merciful One, will take you across the ocean of  worldly temptations,” says Nanak.  AGGS, M 9, p. 220


(I hope the tuks in the quote aren't breach of ToS - if they are let me know and I'll post the entire shabads, thanks)

My question then is:

If the soul is Creative Force, then who is supposed to be desperate to realise the Creative Force, and attain salvation?  It's all Creative Force - there is nothing higher!  Unless salvation is an experience of this human life, this collection of carbon molecules, and nothing beyond that.  Gee it's hard to explain.

There is no separation... The immaterial creative force has gathered it's own material creative essence to form this body... the person that is me is part of the body and will expire with the body -- I myself the ego will cease to exist (and not go to heaven with all it's friends, as it would like to believe as it is selfish and self-preserving).  The observer part of me is actually the creative force itself... which will become part of the greater light of itself once this body has expired...

So in fact "I" am nothing more than a product of my biology.  Which is wonderful and glorious as an expression of creation, but it will cease to exist and then there is nothing left but Creative Essence.  Whose to say the soul part of me isn't redistributed just like my carbon will be?  Not as an entity, not as an ego-self, not as an identity, just like my carbon does not retain my identity...

I feel like my mind is treading a path of nullification lately.. like I'm coming upon the spiritual equivelant of atheism.  It's hard to explain.  When you think you can't tell the difference between where the creative force ends and YOU begin, or the other way around, there is nothing left.

*brain explodey smiley*

Do I make ANY sense?  Even in my own mind I can only hold on to the coherancy of it for a second or two and then I'm confused again.  Maybe someone who recognises these thought processes can give me a hand before I turn myself into a puff of air and disappear into the 1+1=0 infinite loop thingy I've got myself stuck in.  icecreamkaur

I'm a bit worried about my world-view lately too - I took the Beliefnet Belief-O-Matic again the other day (as I do periodically) and apparently I'm more HINDU than I am SIKH!  AAAAHHH!!!


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## ravneet_sb (Oct 17, 2011)

SAT SRI AKAAL,

As Realisation, 

Felt ego as hardisk. and there are many tracks. 

These tracks are run by event of light.

When the focus of light (very fine micro laser) shift of track from one level to other, 
one plane to other, 

there is change in sound produced by voice box (Speakers).

body actions also changed as the dance tune has changed. Dance has chaged

As the way of body action also change.


This cycle of "Death" and "Birth" 

is related to thought cycle not physical birth cycle. 

But at fact plane once it comes it never goes like 

"GURU's BANI"

thought of gravity 

thought of elementary laws

But duality/ mistrust/ jealousy/ hatred/  keeps the thought taking bith and dying

Silence of these thoughts bring "PEACE"

Thought generating machine is silent and not tempting human voice box to produce sound

and one can experience "PEACE" hence "BLISS" Nothing Outside All Inside



One can not see inside, but realise, 

Realisation can not be expressed as it is only self realisation

Yes what is revealed through realisation can be related and explained through simple anology.

As A WORD "MUSA PARADISICA" is read, written and imagined.

It can be realised if one has realised this word physically.

Otherwise it has to be related to "Banana" scientific name

To make common man understand

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Waheguru Ji Ka  Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## spnadmin (Oct 17, 2011)

ravneet_sb ji

please put your mind  thoughts into the MATRIX so that in the future the seekers can tune into it. Thanks.


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## ravneet_sb (Oct 18, 2011)

SAT SRI AKAAL,

It might be foolish of myself to ask,

MATRIX???

Kindly guide me so that I can maintain discipline in writting.

With 

Warm Regards

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## spnadmin (Oct 20, 2011)

It is a movie ravneet_sb ji. A very intriguing movie. Here is a link that tells about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_movie


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