# I'm Losing More And More Faith In Sikhism/God Everyday. Please Help!



## twtpgxhz

Recently I have been stressing out over exams and other stuff and not taken a break from my life in the last few months to consider religion, up until the christmas holidays.

I've always considered myself a Sikh and over these holidays ive been thinking alot about religion, how i want to live life and how a Sikh should live their life. While ive been doing this i've just been getting the feeling that everytime something has come to challenge my faith, any controversies ive been convincing and fooling myself to beleive that there is a god and Sikhism is the right path. As a result im starting to feel like my whole life has just been a lie and dedicated to something which is a complete waste. I feel like ive never really been a sikh, just been deluding myself.

The thing is I just havent seen sikhism work, I dont know that its true. In school in history and science lessons were told to look for evidence and look for proof of things working and i just can't find any examples of Sikhi being true. 

How do we know that the Gurus performed miracles, how do we know that Guru Nanak Dev Ji's handprint is truly in the boulder at Panja sahib. How do we know Baba Ram Rai performed 72 miracles, How do we know that Baba Deep Singh Ji was able to carry on living after being beheaded, how do we know Gurbani can truly cure cancer and lead to "supernatural expereinces". All tese people who are referred to as "Bhai Ji's" are claimed to have seen god, how do we know it wasnt a hallucination?

My faith has always been suppored by the fact that there is a God, and that Sikhism was founded by the True Gurus who were dent BY God. Perhaps this was naive and the wrong approach, but if theres no evidence that Sikhism works then how are we expected to follow it? As a result im loosing faith, i think the only thing keeping my inside is fear of my family. It would be easy for me to start doing prayer, but im just scared im going to be tricking my own self into beleiving in God, and if im wrong, then I will have wasted even more of my life.

I can't call myself a sikh unless i take the first step and have faith. But i want to have faith can someone please  show me the right step to take and how to start beleiveing?


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## Navdeep88

The way I see it: there's miracles happening all the time. The fact that we have people who love us is a miracle, the fact that most of us never go hungry is a miracle, the fact that we feel safe is a miracle. 

You get to go to school to learn, to pursue what you want in life, thats a miracle too.


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## Archived_Member16

FOR YOUR INFORMATION & CONSIDERATION:

*Religion vs Faith*

I think we all get caught up and get sooo emotional when people start talking "religion." Immediately people start to get in their corners and get their defenses up and come out fighting. People it's not religion that is the main point here, it's really FAITH! 

Man has always from his very first breath has been searching for his "god" his creator. We have this need so deep within our spirit that it becomes a life long search for something. We may not have a name for "it" but we know that "it" is out there and waiting for us to come to "it" to come home so to speak.

Faith is believing in something that you know is there but you can't see it you just KNOW it without question and it really doesn't make any human sense. It makes sense to your inter being your soul so to speak. When you have faith in something that you know is bigger than yourself you start to seek alone time with yourself and your spirit "it". You do begin finding certain emotions and an awareness that you never had before in your world and your life and the meaning and purpose of your life here on this earth. There in comes faith. There is a God and He is our purpose and creator. We find peace within when we find and accept that he does have a path for us to follow. But it's just getting up every morning believing that this is going to be a great day because I am totally loved and accepted in such away that is so awesome and unbeieviably beautiful. Faith is not religion. Religion is man made not made by God. Faith is our own path that we each take to find our own God and fill our spirit with his love and his grace everyday. Anyway, that is a short version of what I am trying to confess to you what my heart is telling me in my journey on my personal path. Faith is very much a journey that we embark for a lifetime and has many ups and downs but also brings up much joy and peace

- *Enigma Publiu*

******************************************************​ 
"The human spirit is so great a thing that no man can express it; could we rightly comprehend the mind of man, nothing would be impossible to us upon the earth. Through faith, the imagination is invigorated and completed, for it really happens that every doubt mars its perfection. Faith must strengthen the imagination, for faith establishes the will. Faith must strengthen the imagination, for faith establishes the will." ​ 
- *Paracelsus* - famous physician in the 16th century. 

***************************************************​ 
*"Prayer is the Key to Heaven, But Faith Unlocks the Door"*​


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## Ambarsaria

twtpgxhz said:


> Recently I have been stressing out over exams and other stuff and not taken a break from my life in the last few months to consider religion, up until the christmas holidays.
> 
> I've always considered myself a Sikh and over these holidays ive been thinking alot about religion, how i want to live life and how a Sikh should live their life. While ive been doing this i've just been getting the feeling that everytime something has come to challenge my faith, any controversies ive been convincing and fooling myself to beleive that there is a god and Sikhism is the right path. As a result im starting to feel like my whole life has just been a lie and dedicated to something which is a complete waste. I feel like ive never really been a sikh, just been deluding myself.
> 
> The thing is I just havent seen sikhism work, I dont know that its true. In school in history and science lessons were told to look for evidence and look for proof of things working and i just can't find any examples of Sikhi being true.
> 
> How do we know that the Gurus performed miracles, how do we know that Guru Nanak Dev Ji's handprint is truly in the boulder at Panja sahib. How do we know Baba Ram Rai performed 72 miracles, How do we know that Baba Deep Singh Ji was able to carry on living after being beheaded, how do we know Gurbani can truly cure cancer and lead to "supernatural expereinces". All tese people who are referred to as "Bhai Ji's" are claimed to have seen god, how do we know it wasnt a hallucination?
> 
> My faith has always been suppored by the fact that there is a God, and that Sikhism was founded by the True Gurus who were dent BY God. Perhaps this was naive and the wrong approach, but if theres no evidence that Sikhism works then how are we expected to follow it? As a result im loosing faith, i think the only thing keeping my inside is fear of my family. It would be easy for me to start doing prayer, but im just scared im going to be tricking my own self into beleiving in God, and if im wrong, then I will have wasted even more of my life.
> 
> I can't call myself a sikh unless i take the first step and have faith. But i want to have faith can someone please  show me the right step to take and how to start beleiveing?


twtpgxhz ji your doubts are no different than my doubts.

In my opinion and belief, Chamatkars are no part of sikhi whether associated with Gurus or others.  Our Gurus got people to think and challenge their ill founded or blind faith.  The Gurus never encouraged blind faith and this is a cornerstone of sikhism.

There are unexplained occurrences (parchariks and Bhais some times take liberty and call these Chamatkars and the sangat bows) but the object should be to find the truth as much as possible and avoid classification.

Find the good in Sikhism and don't stress over the things other believe in that you don't want to.  Everyone finds their own balance and some do through learning and questioning while others do through blind faith or like to follow.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## twtpgxhz

It just seems to me like Sikhism doesnt deliver what it promises. I've always been told that a Sikh person can see god and all doubt can be dispelled by meditation on Naam. The problem is no-one in the last 75 years can claim to have seen God. Who is there? The Learders of sikhi? if they had seen God surely they would be so enlightened that they would not make mistakes in how they live their lives, yet Professor Darshan Singh Ji was excommunicated, and had a dispute with several other leaders of Sikhi, who by all rights have followed Sikhi, meditated long enough and with enough love on the naam and done enough prayer to have seen God. How can these people who by all rights should be so enlightened have an arguement about Sikhi?

The stories of the times of the Guru's never showed such things to happen. 

Im not losing faith because i havent seen or experienced God, its becuase i'm beggining to beleive no-one else has. I knowit is wrong to look for a "person" Guru and i know my faith should lie in SGGS Ji, not in a person, of all 11 Guru's 10 seemed to have performed miracles, and SGGS Ji hasnt performed any.

I would also like to apologise for any offence I have caused, but this is just how I feel, I don't want to hide it or cover it up, these are the big issues which challenge my faith and in order to become a stronger sikh I must confront them and thats why i'm talking like this, I apologise for any disrespect I have caused.


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## BhagatSingh

It sounds as if you are approaching Sikhism in an incorrect manner. The reason you are losing faith is because it not well grounded. What it IS grounded in is some incomplete perception of Sikhism. It's hardly Sikhism.

You asked whether it works? Well, that depends. If you treat Sikhism as something you simply believe in and expect magic to happen then you couldn't be more wrong.
Truth is Sikhism is hard work. It's less about belief and more about DO! Gurus set the example for that better than any person you'll find. (Hint: stop looking at others and contemplate on the ultimate models AKA 10 Gurus)
Sikhism requires years of introspective efforts. It's not for everyone as most people shy away from hard work. and it's a long process, with results that are not immediate. It really has nothing to do with miracles or supernatural experiences or supermen.

Check this out before continuing:http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/33792-shallow-readings-and-meditation.html

Now if you read that link above, it will explain why meditation came to  be and how it can reduce suffering. if you read it, the below will make  sense.
Sikhism involves lots meditation, in an attempt to train our attentions to be able to notice things that pass below our radars as we go with our days. When we train to do this, we can uproot our ego, which is ultimately the cause of our suffering. Notice your replies, it's all about "I..." "me..." "my...", that is your ego, and it's suffocating you. Meditation attempts to extinguish this fire that's in you.

This model of meditation is what Sikhism is ultimately based on. It involves the following among others, but this should get you started:
1. Listening - to recitations of gurbani during akhand paths or in Gurudwara. Listening to kirtan.
This is not going to magically enlighten you. When you listen, you'll have to put all your focus in listening to the sounds. Whether you understand it or not. You should not identify with any thoughts that arise, meaning let them be. If you start thinking about things, just let the thought pass and get back to focusing.

2. Praising - This is involves doing the kirtan yourself. When you do this, again focus on your voice and words as you sing. 

3. Remembering - Similar to kirtan, focus on the "naam" ie. waheguru, ram, allah, as you repeat it. Take a deep breath in, and release by saying the naam. Focus on your breath as it goes in, down the chest into your stomach (it doesn't really go there but it feels as if it does), then let it out and focus on the sounds that come out. 

4. Volunteering - When you go to gurudwara or even at home, wash dishes or something... Focus on the act of washing. Concentrate.

These are some of the major practices in Sikhism, and none of them involve knowing whether Guru Nanak Dev ji' handprint was really on the stone. For the spiritual person, those things you mentioned are irrelevant. What matters is the practice of meditation. I have given you 4 forms in which meditation is practiced in. Allow yourself to experience meditation the next time you are sitting around doing nothing. It requires nothing but your mind.

last thing - avoid looking for results in other people. The focus is you. See if you can find results in yourself after practicing.


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## Ambarsaria

twtpgxhz sikhism does not promise you anything.  It provides you the tool kit to achieve spirituality including searching for God within and without.

_I've always been told_ that a Sikh person can see god and all doubt can be dispelled by meditation on Naam.​.... of all 11 Guru's _10 seemed to have performed miracles_, and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji hasnt performed any.
​_I am very sorry to say that something got mixed up in your guidance about sikhism. __Literal meditation on Naam has possibly achieved some results but I believe in my mind, that it kind of closes your mind on discovery and leads you to wait for a flash of light to appear and one says, eureka I have seen God.peacesign
_​I do believe you are very honest person and I don't find any offence in your comments.

I will suggest study bani.  Try to see the light within.  Be good to yourself and see others how you want them to see you.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## findingmyway

twtpgxhz ji,
I agree with Bhagat ji in that you are approaching Sikhi from completely the wrong direction and I will do my best to explain why.
1) God is not a person that you "see". God is within each and every part of creation including ourselves as described by Mool Mantar. We have to try very hard to break down the barriers we build in ourselves to stop us connecting us from Ik Oankar. These barriers are kam, krodh, lobh, moh and hankar.
2) Sikhi is about living according to Gurbani. The miracles you mention are nothing to do with Sikhi. It is all about understanding and following Gurbani to make yourself a better person.
3) Waheguru looks after all creation no matter whether you believe or not. By believing and connecting with Waheguru we develop the ability to deal with the downs in our life so that is the reward-inner peace. Gurbani can't cure cancer but it can make it a hige amount easier to deal with.
4) The true miracles of Sikhi are how sleeping sheep were converted to warriors and able to rise up against tyranny during the Guru's time. The miracles of nature are also proof of God for me as Navdeep ji says above. The wonder you feel seeing a rainbow or waterfall. The wonder of a child's smile can't be explained just by science. The wonder about how this planet has such a rich array of life. These are the miracles we should be looking at.

Here's a post I wrote a while ago which may help http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/33504-blind-faith-in-sikhism-is-possible.html
I also recommend you start reading the Guru Granth Sahib ji so you actually understand Sikhi and what its all about. Here's something to get you started http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/16256-mool-mantar-the-blueprint-sikhi-marg.html
Jasleen


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## twtpgxhz

Thank you for your responses, I see that i's not looking at Sikhi correctly. I think alot of the older people like to bring thir kids over to Sikhi by wowing them with the story of miracles. I can now see how gurbani and meditation can be used to help overcome the 5 sins. 

I'm now willing to follow adice and try meditation and have a closer more meaningful look at Gurbani, but i still have the doubt in my mind, I can't fool myself or deceive myself, im not going to go into it with full faith and beleif that it will help, and with a doubtful skeptical mind, can I truly benefit from these practices?

Also I still dont see how removing our sins and becoming better people relate to God. While it is true that possesing the 5 sins can damage our minds and bodies, I feel as though i can control them and partake in them in such a way i wont hurt myself or others around me, afterall I do have a conscious. For me the ultimate deterrant from the 5 sins was fear that they would distance me from God, now that im losing my faith I loom to them and see that they can perhaps bring joy, and there is no punishment. 

I can't see how i can go into Sikhi without KNOWING there is a God and knowing that mediation and gurbani are the path to God. 

Im going to try taking your advice but im really worried i'm just deluding myself into beleiving and don't posses true faith...

Does the way young Sikh's are being raised today worry you? the most inspirational stories for me hae always been how the Guru's and Bhagats and Sants were able to overcome obstacles through divine intervention. It was maintained by stories of living Sants. I feel like the basis of my faith was founded on a lie and as a result it no longer exists. If right now im a faithless person where do i find that spark to set it off in the right direction...?


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## Navdeep88

I think the advice given above is invaluable, and very difficult to practice (nothing good comes easy). But if you are still worrying and skeptical, be assured, your keeper will come for you. It seems like you are beginning your own process at the moment, you are questioning what faith could mean for you, not just what others have said. 

During that process, advice from others (those further along) will help but your faith will come by your efforts alone. And if you happen to stumble and wander off every now and then, (like myself at the moment) find some way to contact others (like you are doing right now) so they can help steer you back on that path again. Thats the power of sangat! Good luck!


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## BhagatSingh

Hmm... you are still bringing in preconceived notions about things. But I understand what you saying a bit better.

There are always doubts as to how successful our actions are going to be. Imagine, you are back stage ready to step up to the podium to give your speech... all these thoughts come rushing in... doubt fills your mind... "would they like my speech?... there are so many people, I can't do this... i am not ready..."

There are many things in the world that we do and must do without completely knowing. You have some faith in my words, otherwise, you would have not responded back with a sincere reply. You have some faith in the 10 Gurus who bring to you the practice of meditation, as a cure for your suffering. Most importantly you have faith in yourself, otherwise you would not be here. Now it's up to you to act upon this faith you have and practice the teachings that are laid out before you! Get up on the stage and do you thing.  You will be fine... we all have faith in you.


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## findingmyway

twtpgxhz said:


> I'm now willing to follow adice and try meditation and have a closer more meaningful look at Gurbani, but i still have the doubt in my mind, I can't fool myself or deceive myself, im not going to go into it with full faith and beleif that it will help, and with a doubtful skeptical mind, can I truly benefit from these practices?



I think one of the issues you're having is you are still trying to cling to the miracles as faith. Try not to think of following Sikhi as your old faith but a new path to make it easier to try with a new mind. 

Doubts are natural. Many people have doubts they are doing the right degree course or in the right job or marrying the right person but give things a try so same here. Until you try being a Sikh how do you know whether its right for you or not? But as with other endeavours you have to try full heartedly otherwise there will not be any success.



> Also I still dont see how removing our sins and becoming better people  relate to God. While it is true that possesing the 5 sins can damage our  minds and bodies, I feel as though i can control them and partake in  them in such a way i wont hurt myself or others around me, afterall I do  have a conscious. For me the ultimate deterrant from the 5 sins was  fear that they would distance me from God, now that im losing my faith I  loom to them and see that they can perhaps bring joy, and there is no  punishment.


The only punishment is to yourself. It's not about eradicating the 5 thieves but about controlling them to a level where you connect with Waheguru. If you don't the happiness is temporary and you will find it harder to deal with the lows. Therefore by giving into them we are cheating ourselves not God! The conscience can be overcome by emotion and other sensations alone though there are people who manage without being spairitual but they don't obtain ultimate peace of mind IMHO. 

At the end of the day you have to decide how you want to live your life and how much effort you are willing to put in. No-one can tell you what to do or feel. No path of life is easy so you need to know what goals you want to achieve and keep sight of those in the ups and downs.

Apologies if this sounds like a sermon or pep talk, I didn't mean it to! icecreamkudi


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## ragu96

the issue of miracles isn't of great importance in my opinion. Sakhis relay a message, I try not to take them as purely literal but rather to see the core message of them. 

I don't think your in dire need of help questioning your faith could be a healthy thing at times. For my own part, I turned my back on sikhi, only to come back to it and find a deeper understanding and interest then I had prior. Sometimes I think that had I not gone the path I had gurbani would not seem so sweet to me when I discovered it once more.


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## Astroboy

*twtpgxhz* Ji,

You probably don't know that you are Jot Swaroop. Meaning Soul. We are all souls wearing a physical body. While in this physical laws world, we are led to believe that everything in the physical is real. But it is all an illusion. So long as we are dreaming, the dream events seem real. This dream we are experiencing is because of the physical body we are wearing. 
It is important that you start getting the guidance from the spiritually evolved souls. There are many fake sants and mahanta but there are the real ones too. How to believe which is fake and which is false?


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## Archived_Member16

Food for thought:

Doubt sees the obstacles
faith sees the way.
Doubt sees the darkest night
Faith sees the day.
Doubt dreads to take a step
Faith soars on high.
Doubt questions 'who believes?'
Faith answers, 'I.'

- Author Unknown


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## Blank

I am not a sikh but I want to add my opinion, As per my thought, Your lifestyle doesn't reflect in any religious manner.



> How do we know that the Gurus performed miracles, how do we know that  Guru Nanak Dev Ji's handprint is truly in the boulder at Panja sahib.  How do we know Baba Ram Rai performed 72 miracles, How do we know that  Baba Deep Singh Ji was able to carry on living after being beheaded



Do you want miracles to show faith in God, How the earth is formed, If you are thinking about big bang etc then If you go in depth you will lastly find a place which is unanswered and that is created by god, I always goto temple or gurdwara and wish something and I will get it, that had happened with you too.Isn't it. Is this thing is any less then a miracle?.



> how do we know Gurbani can truly cure cancer and lead to "supernatural expereinces"



God can cure anything but what you said I don't think its true, I mean Gurbani will give you relaxation and surely power to fight from any disease or problem but it doesn't cure.



> All tese people who are referred to as "Bhai Ji's" are claimed to have seen god, how do we know it wasnt a hallucination?



Bhaiji(s) are humans just like us, Might be possible some of them have seen god but hard to find that type of true persons now-a-days.



> My faith has always been suppored by the fact that there is a God, and  that Sikhism was founded by the True Gurus who were dent BY God. Perhaps  this was naive and the wrong approach, but if theres no evidence that  Sikhism works then how are we expected to follow it? As a result im  loosing faith, i think the only thing keeping my inside is fear of my  family. It would be easy for me to start doing prayer, but im just  scared im going to be tricking my own self into beleiving in God, and if  im wrong, then I will have wasted even more of my life.



Ok that one is something serious, What you mean by "Sikhism works" , You don't follow Sikhism, Don't follow any religion, Just be a nice and a Good Person god will surely bless you, If you are praying just because you are scared of your family please stop doing it, Their is no use of prayers If you are not performing them with your soul. 



> I can't call myself a sikh unless i take the first step and have faith.  But i want to have faith can someone please  show me the right step to  take and how to start beleiveing?



Their is no way that makes you to believe in anything, Its upto you. I can suggest you one thing, If you want to know your religion better respect all other religions and read some religious books of your religion and of other's too, I prefer Bible.

If you don't like my opinion than I am sorry but please give it a chance.


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## Astroboy

> Their is no way that makes you to believe  in anything, Its upto you. I can suggest you one thing, If you want to  know your religion better respect all other religions and read some  religious books of your religion and of other's too, I prefer Bible.
> 
> If you don't like my opinion than I am sorry but please give it a chance.


There is a quote from the bible which I read every once a week because I am the sangeetham teacher in Sai Baba Centre. We read this particular quote together with many prayers from different faiths including Sikh faith.

Here's a video on just one universal prayer from the many.

Om Tat Sat Sri Narayana Tu Purushottama Guru Tu Siddha Buddha Tu Skanda  Vinayaka Tu Savita Pavak Tu Brahma Maazda Tu Yahava Shakti Tu Yesu Pita  Prabhu Tu Rudra Vishnu Tu Ram Krishna Tu Rahim Tao Tu Vaasudeva Tu  Vishwarupa Tu Chidananda Hari Tu Advitya Tu Akaala Nirbhaya Atma Linga  Shiva Tu Sai Atma Linga Shiva Tu Sai Atma Linga Shiva Tu Aum Shanti  Shanti Shanti         

YouTube        - Om Tat Sat Shri Narayan Tu - Prarthana


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## Blank

namjap said:


> There is a quote from the bible which I read every once a week because I am the sangeetham teacher in Sai Baba Centre. We read this particular quote together with many prayers from different faiths including Sikh faith.
> 
> Here's a video on just one universal prayer from the many.
> 
> Om Tat Sat Sri Narayana Tu Purushottama Guru Tu Siddha Buddha Tu Skanda  Vinayaka Tu Savita Pavak Tu Brahma Maazda Tu Yahava Shakti Tu Yesu Pita  Prabhu Tu Rudra Vishnu Tu Ram Krishna Tu Rahim Tao Tu Vaasudeva Tu  Vishwarupa Tu Chidananda Hari Tu Advitya Tu Akaala Nirbhaya Atma Linga  Shiva Tu Sai Atma Linga Shiva Tu Sai Atma Linga Shiva Tu Aum Shanti  Shanti Shanti



I think this is the best prayer I ever heard,The person who can understand its true meaning, will surely be close to god and humanity


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## Astroboy

Now listen to this,

YouTube        - TUHI TUHI


YouTube        - Ab Tab Jab Kab Tuhi Tuhi - Bhai Satwinder Singh Ji and Harvinder Singh Ji

Page 969, Line 12
ਅਬ ਤਬ ਜਬ ਕਬ ਤੁਹੀ ਤੁਹੀ ॥
अब तब जब कब तुही तुही ॥
Ab ṯab jab kab ṯuhī ṯuhī.
Now and then, here and there, You, only You.
Devotee Kabir   -  view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


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## Harry Haller

For a young person to feel this way is very normal, and I would like to add my own thoughts to the long journey ahead of you. Sikhism can offer much to you, provided you know what it is you want. 

Miracles and visions are not important, what is important can be found in  the guidelines and advice in the GGS. I am sure the Gurus did not expect every sikh to be an amritdhari perfect example of sikhism. What they left us was the sort of advice and rules that a parent would leave a child. 

As a young adult I decided to put my life first and my faith second, and have delved into most of the lusts and pits of despair that life throws at you, and I can tell you that everything I have learned was already there in front of me in scripture. All I know now, (at the tender age of 41) is that to live a good life, the following must be carried out

You must earn your money honestly 
You must give some of it away to worthy causes
Honour your parents
Honour your wife in action as well as mind
Keep your mind clear, so that people who love you, could walk around inside and find nothing that would dismay them
Practice moderation
Find contentment in what you have
Make a difference to the lives of people round you

Now, although I have learned this through the fire and brimstone of living, if I had more faith, I could have accepted these things instead of having them burnt into me using a red hot poker. 

Its your choice my friend, being a good sikh in thought and mind is , I think, the highest honour for any man (My dad is one),and you get the added benefit of knowing what I know to be true,  years ahead!


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## Randip Singh

twtpgxhz said:


> How do we know that the Gurus performed miracles, how do we know that Guru Nanak Dev Ji's handprint is truly in the boulder at Panja sahib.



He didn't.



twtpgxhz said:


> How do we know Baba Ram Rai performed 72 miracles,



He didn't



twtpgxhz said:


> How do we know that Baba Deep Singh Ji was able to carry on living after being beheaded,



he didn't



twtpgxhz said:


> how do we know Gurbani can truly cure cancer and lead to "supernatural expereinces".



It can't and does not.....however, faith has a great placebo effect.



twtpgxhz said:


> All tese people who are referred to as "Bhai Ji's" are claimed to have seen god, how do we know it wasnt a hallucination?



God is in all of us, it is up to us to realise "God". Control and defeat the 5 thieves and realise what is already within you.




I would suggest read about Sikhism from rational sources eg Dr Gopal Singh, Dr I J Singh, Patwant Singh etc. You seem to have got your information from Sakhi's which at best are unreliable, and at worst utter nonsense.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Garbage IN..garbage OUT.....the Most authentic reference to Gurmatt is the GURBANI written and endorsed by the GURU himself. Read THAT and get the REAL STUFF.


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## Randip Singh

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Garbage IN..garbage OUT.....the Most authentic reference to Gurmatt is the GURBANI written and endorsed by the GURU himself. Read THAT and get the REAL STUFF.



Indeed Gyani ji, it is this one up man ship with miracle making that is making people dissillusioned.

Sikhism is such a down to Earth faith. It does not believe in miracle making. These miracle have polluted Sikhism and distort its message.

If we believe that "higher than truth is truthful living" then there can be no place for miracles.


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## aristotle

twtpgxhz said:


> Recently I have been stressing out over exams and other stuff and not taken a break from my life in the last few months to consider religion, up until the christmas holidays.
> 
> I've always considered myself a Sikh and over these holidays ive been thinking alot about religion, how i want to live life and how a Sikh should live their life. While ive been doing this i've just been getting the feeling that everytime something has come to challenge my faith, any controversies ive been convincing and fooling myself to beleive that there is a god and Sikhism is the right path. As a result im starting to feel like my whole life has just been a lie and dedicated to something which is a complete waste. I feel like ive never really been a sikh, just been deluding myself.
> 
> The thing is I just havent seen sikhism work, I dont know that its true. In school in history and science lessons were told to look for evidence and look for proof of things working and i just can't find any examples of Sikhi being true.
> 
> How do we know that the Gurus performed miracles, how do we know that Guru Nanak Dev Ji's handprint is truly in the boulder at Panja sahib. How do we know Baba Ram Rai performed 72 miracles, How do we know that Baba Deep Singh Ji was able to carry on living after being beheaded, how do we know Gurbani can truly cure cancer and lead to "supernatural expereinces". All tese people who are referred to as "Bhai Ji's" are claimed to have seen god, how do we know it wasnt a hallucination?
> 
> My faith has always been suppored by the fact that there is a God, and that Sikhism was founded by the True Gurus who were dent BY God. Perhaps this was naive and the wrong approach, but if theres no evidence that Sikhism works then how are we expected to follow it? As a result im loosing faith, i think the only thing keeping my inside is fear of my family. It would be easy for me to start doing prayer, but im just scared im going to be tricking my own self into beleiving in God, and if im wrong, then I will have wasted even more of my life.
> 
> I can't call myself a sikh unless i take the first step and have faith. But i want to have faith can someone please  show me the right step to take and how to start beleiveing?



My Brother, Sikhism is a religion of love and sacrifice. One becomes a  Sikh the very moment he/she considers himself as a Sikh. If you are  steadfast on our love for the Guru, no circumstance whatsoever can shake  your faith. ....and there is a very narrow line between faith and  blindfaith. So, don't wait for a miracle to happen, you yourself are a  miracle, a gift of God to the world. Learn to love, i say again, and you  will find yourself as a better Sikh.


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## texassikhstudent

As a scientist, I can "see" god everywhere I look. Sikhism provides a logical basis for the vastness of the Universe. Furthermore, science has given evidence that meditation can physically change the structure of your physical and mental mind. Some things are beyond the realm of science as of yet, but our knowledge grows everyday. Some people believe that science and spirituality are incompatible... I can not see that. God created the universe according to the laws of nature... laws that are so intricately perfect mathematically, chemically, etc., that it is hard not to find spirituality from it all. Look at the odds in evolution and you will see how amazing evolution really is! Faith is about looking to teachings for spiritual guidance and deciding what is best for your life! peacesign


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## sachbol

Ambarsaria said:


> twtpgxhz sikhism does not promise you anything.  It provides you the tool kit to achieve spirituality including searching for God within and without.
> 
> _I've always been told_ that a Sikh person can see god and all doubt can be dispelled by meditation on Naam.​.... of all 11 Guru's _10 seemed to have performed miracles_, and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji hasnt performed any.
> ​_I am very sorry to say that something got mixed up in your guidance about sikhism. __Literal meditation on Naam has possibly achieved some results but I believe in my mind, that it kind of closes your mind on discovery and leads you to wait for a flash of light to appear and one says, eureka I have seen God.peacesign
> _​I do believe you are very honest person and I don't find any offence in your comments.
> 
> I will suggest study bani.  Try to see the light within.  Be good to yourself and see others how you want them to see you.
> 
> Sat Sri Akal.



You opened my eyes "Sikhism does not promise you anything. It provides you the tool kit to achieve spirituality including searching for God within and without." 
Chamatkars are done by the magecians just for their Rozi-Roti.


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## Dr.Alta

twtpgxhz said:


> I've always considered myself a Sikh and over these holidays ive been thinking alot about religion, how i want to live life and how a Sikh should live their life. While ive been doing this i've just been getting the feeling that everytime something has come to challenge my faith, any controversies ive been convincing and fooling myself to beleive that there is a god and Sikhism is the right path. As a result im starting to feel like my whole life has just been a lie and dedicated to something which is a complete waste. I feel like ive never really been a sikh, just been deluding myself.





Dr.Alta said:


> The Wholly Marines are their for you.  Sikhi without the Sikhism.


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## Dr.Alta

twtpgxhz said:


> How do we know that the Gurus performed miracles, how do we know that Guru Nanak Dev Ji's handprint is truly in the boulder at Panja sahib. How do we know Baba Ram Rai performed 72 miracles, How do we know that Baba Deep Singh Ji was able to carry on living after being beheaded, how do we know Gurbani can truly cure cancer and lead to "supernatural expereinces". All tese people who are referred to as "Bhai Ji's" are claimed to have seen god, how do we know it wasnt a hallucination?


The Perennial Tradition



twtpgxhz said:


> My faith has always been suppored by the fact that there is a God, and that Sikhism was founded by the True Gurus who were dent BY God. Perhaps this was naive and the wrong approach, but if theres no evidence that Sikhism works then how are we expected to follow it? As a result im loosing faith, i think the only thing keeping my inside is fear of my family. It would be easy for me to start doing prayer, but im just scared im going to be tricking my own self into beleiving in God, and if im wrong, then I will have wasted even more of my life.
> 
> I can't call myself a sikh unless i take the first step and have faith. But i want to have faith can someone please  show me the right step to take and how to start beleiveing?


A broken clock is still  right twice a day. Just because you followed Sikhi for the wrong reasons doesn't mean it's wrong.

Find a satsangat and you will see it work firsthand.[/QUOTE]


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## Dr.Alta

twtpgxhz said:


> if they had seen God surely they would be so enlightened that they would not make mistakes in how they live their lives, yet Professor Darshan Singh Ji was excommunicated, and had a dispute with several other leaders of Sikhi, who by all rights have followed Sikhi, meditated long enough and with enough love on the naam and done enough prayer to have seen God. How can these people who by all rights should be so enlightened have an arguement about Sikhi?


 Glimsing  The Guru makes you a better person, not a perfect one.


> Im not losing faith because i havent seen or experienced God, its becuase i'm beggining to beleive no-one else has. I knowit is wrong to look for a "person" Guru and i know my faith should lie in SGGS Ji, not in a person, of all 11 Guru's 10 seemed to have performed miracles, and SGGS Ji hasnt performed any.





Dr.Alta said:


> If you where refering to why I founded the Wholly Marines It's because. Nanak's message confirmed everything I already believed in as a child, I  even Carried a knife with me and refused to cut my hair on religious grounds! But is was dismayed to find so many Manmukhs in SIkhism.
> 
> I know I''ve heard of others wanting to turn their backs to Sikhi because of the hypocrisy of their fellow Sikhs.  I want them to know that there is another option.


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## Dr.Alta

Randip Singh said:


> He didn't.
> 
> It can't and does not.....however, faith has a great placebo effect.


It was though meditation on the Gurbani that all science happens.


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## Logical Sikh

BRO..... See, this is my interpretation of GURBANI.
First of all none of that shit ever happened that you have doubts on.... talkin' abt baba deep singh holding head in hand while fighting, and gurbani healing cancers and guru nanak's PANJA' nishaan on that ROCK
1. IF Gurbani could heal cancer, why would guru sahib open CLINICS.... read 3rd guru's history.
2. If you say that nishaan OF PANJA is actually of guru sahib's, im an architecture student i've read all about rocks, if there was a nishaan, it would have been eroded by now by the effect of weathering and seasoning.
3. I SAY GURBANI IS PURE LOGIC.

SEE, i'll give meanings of some of the words guru sahib used in BANI for your better understanding.

HUKAM -  Laws of Nature

GOD/Eternal Entity - Unreachable, Out Of human's Reach.... Stop trying to make something happy that is already out of your reach, guru sahib has said this tons of time that GOD IS AGAM, APAAR, etc. you cant make someone happy who has no DISPUTE with anyone " NIRVAIR" Eternal entity is already happy with you.

NAAM/ JAP /SAROVAR - Understanding the Message.

GURU ( as of now ) - KNOWLEDGE ( The reading source of SGGS could be anything, be it smartphone, Pothi, Book, anything. BUT GURU IS KNOWLEDGE. )

AARTI - what POOJA/AARTI can you offer while the whole earth itself is giving god its own aarti. 

GOD has gave you all the resource that you need to sustain your life, now he isnt gonna come to feed you, you gotta do it by yourself.

THERE IS GOD, YES, I AGREE, but you cant do nothing about it. you cant make him happy by doing anything. what you sow is what you'll get. GOD isn't gonna come and put the spoon in your mouth. You've Got the Raw Material, you are the Entrepreneur now.  BE A GOOD MAN, HELP OTHER PEOPLE in their work, LIVE a TRUTHFUL LIFE, BE A STRONG MAN ( be it mentally, physically or financially.). 

THIS IS MY CURRENT UNDERSTANDING OF SIKHI, FEEL FREE TO PROVE ME WRONG CUZ SIKHI IS ALWAYS LEARNING AND I WONT REJECT A STRONG ARGUMENT, IF IT HAS ANY LOGIC.

THANKYOU!!


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