# Kaur Power



## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jul 29, 2008)

*We Sikhs love to brag that our religion sees women and men as equals. All well and good, Sikhi teaches this. But I don't see many of usr Kaurs standing up as equals.  We tend to let the Singhs run everything.  As marvelous as they are, we are also magnificent!  We need to stand up, be visible, be tough and insist on being counted.  We even need to stand in front of buses, if that's what it takes.*

We who are the daughters of Guru Gobind Singh Ji need to find our voice and stand up as the proud Singhnis we are.  Guru Ji gives us the right, the power, perhaps even the obligation to do this.

Let's do it ourselkves...If we wait for our brother Singhs, we'll be waiting another 300 years, at least!  






BTW, I have no idea who this lady is, but I want to be like her.


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## kds1980 (Jul 30, 2008)

Mai ji

Very good post

But I want to say something If women want equality then they must have to share equal responsibilty
These days sikh girls are becoming more and more lineberal in their beleif.They openly say that they don't have problem with marrying non sikh men.We in our society hardly see any sikh woman who marries non sikh man tries to raise their children as sikhs.I am sorry to say but with this kind of beleif
women will be never seen as equal by sikh men.

And yes there are very good sikh girls who are very religious and devouted to sikhism.But they are in minority and more and more girls are becoming modern and westernised


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## spnadmin (Jul 30, 2008)

kds ji

Can the Singhs tell the difference between the two types of Sighnis? I think so. If they can see that, then Singhs can ask themselves these questions? The Kaurs have voices. Do enough of them know they have voices? Do enough of them use their voices?  -- that is Mai's point. No one has to wait for a Singh to listen. Or wait for permission to speak. 

More questions for Singhs. Why does a Kaur have to stand in front of a bus in any situation? Did the situation have to beome so drastic for that Kaur to take action? Or should having a voice and taking action become a habit for as many Kaurs as possible?

Just some thoughts from one who has a voice and would like to hear *many* other Kaur voices speaking to her.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jul 30, 2008)

> But I want to say something If women want equality then they must have to share equal responsibilty


 
Oh, I think we are quite willing to take equal responsibility, for the most part. Of course, that means you men need to meet us halfway. You know we get tired. These days we are excpected to take care of the house, cook, raise the children AND hold down a job. It's amazing we don't drop dead from exhaustion.

I had no idea how exhausted I really was until I had this stroke and was able to rest, since I was unable to do many of the things I had done before.

But we are also taught to serve, not to complain, just accept the old traditions of male domination from Punjabi culture. I think it's time we live according to the principles of Sikhi instead of that old culture. To do that, though, we have to find our voice and then use it. Check out the discussion of this picture - which was, by the way, painted by a Singh!:happy:









Daughter(s) of the Khalsa on Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## Astroboy (Jul 30, 2008)

In Thailand, it is the Kaurs who boss around, and the Singhs are their "Yes Men". 
Bring some of the Thai Kaurs and the world will never be the same again, ever.


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## kds1980 (Jul 30, 2008)

Mai said:


> Oh, I think we are quite willing to take equal responsibility, for the most part. Of course, that means you men need to meet us halfway. You know we get tired. These days we are excpected to take care of the house, cook, raise the children AND hold down a job. It's amazing we don't drop dead from exhaustion.
> 
> I had no idea how exhausted I really was until I had this stroke and was able to rest, since I was unable to do many of the things I had done before.
> 
> ...




Mai ji

You have misunderstood my post I am not talking about family responsibilty.I am talking about responsibility toward religion.That include following tenants of sikhism,marrying sikh men and raising their children as sikhs.also sikh women that marry outside their children could try to raise their children as sikhs.But I am sorry to say that I can,t  that majority of sikh girls are ready to share this reasponsibility.Infact girls are most influenced by media and bollywood and started beleiving that all religions are same so their is nothing wrong in marrying outside religion.Do they ever realise they are biggest loser in terms of religion as in indian culture children inherit religion from their father mostly and slowly they also started following their husband's religion.

Women these days are much better educated ,earning etc than 20-30 years ago but in terms of following sikhism they are no match what women use to be a generation or 2 ago .Infact women were the one who encouraged sikh men to follow sikhism.


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## kds1980 (Jul 30, 2008)

aad0002 said:


> kds ji
> 
> Can the Singhs tell the difference between the two types of Sighnis? I think so. If they can see that, then Singhs can ask themselves these questions? The Kaurs have voices. Do enough of them know they have voices? Do enough of them use their voices?  -- that is Mai's point. No one has to wait for a Singh to listen. Or wait for permission to speak.
> 
> ...



After reading your post I only want to say that where there is will their is way.If sikh women really want their voice to heard then their voice will be heard m.May be not today but one day.Women all over the world acheived lot of things which they really want to do.

As far as standing in front of bus is concerned I don't know about the picture but may be that woman want to reach her destination.so she chose method to stand in front of bus as transport is really big problem in indian cities and old people women suffer the most.


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## spnadmin (Jul 30, 2008)

As far as standing in front of bus is concerned I don't know about the picture but may be that woman want to reach her destination.so she chose method to stand in front of bus as transport is really big problem in indian cities and *old people women suffer the most*

Yes both points are true!:yes:


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jul 30, 2008)

it could have been a man in the picture

the essence would have remained the same.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jul 30, 2008)

> You have misunderstood my post I am not talking about family responsibilty.I am talking about responsibility toward religion.That include following tenants of Sikhism,marrying Sikh men and raising their children as sikhs.also Sikh women that marry outside their children could try to raise their children as sikhs.But I am sorry to say that I can,t that majority of Sikh girls are ready to share this reasponsibility.Infact girls are most influenced by media and bollywood and started beleiving that all religions are same so their is nothing wrong in marrying outside religion.Do they ever realise they are biggest loser in terms of religion as in indian culture children inherit religion from their father mostly and slowly they also started following their husband's religion.
> 
> Women these days are much better educated ,earning etc than 20-30 years ago but in terms of following Sikhism they are no match what women use to be a generation or 2 ago .Infact women were the one who encouraged Sikh men to follow Sikhism.


 
ads1980 ji

You are right, I did misunderstand.  I spent the whole night thinking about what you said.  (One legacy for me of surviving Delhi '84 is insomnia.)

I still believe most women are exhausted, overworked, holding down jobs as well as the lion's, I mean lioness' share of work in the home.  I think about my own home life when our son was a young child.  Every morning and evening we had our special time together when I took care of his kesh, washing, combing, tying, patka-ing.  During this time, he would leisurely tell me whatever was on his mind, and, believe me, young kids have plenty on their minds.  I well remember the day he said to me, "Mommy, when you and Daddy can't figure something out, you ask Guru Ji.  Can I do that, too?"  Of course, he could!  I had to bring in a little stool for him to stand on.  I remember how carefully he opened Guru Ji, and how slowly and carefully he read the Gurmukhi - and how he insisted on reading it himself with no help from me.  I hadn't asked him his question, that was really none of my business, and he was satisfied with the answer he received, the big smile on his face told me that.

A lovely story, you say, from 1975.  So what does that have to do with today?

Just this:  I was able to stay at home and raise our child.  Don't get me wrong, I worked my tush off on our little family farm while Mani, my husband, was in town being a doctor, but I was always there.  Even in my generation, though, motherhood was being discredited as an occupation.  As time has gone on, this trend has accelerated until today, the stay-at-home mom is considered almost a miscreant.  I wonder how much energy I would have had as a teacher of Sikhi had I had to hold down a job, take care of the home AND raise our child.

The young women today did not have the upbringing I had, nor the upbringing my son had.  They really have no idea how to bring up Gursikh children.  I am not blaming anyone, these are just the facts.

I loved being a mother, that's just my thing.  I realise not all women want to be stay-at-homes with the kids.  Nor are many able to, financially.  That can work out OK, but only with the whole-hearted  cooperation of the husband.  The married couple must really work together as a team.  None of this 50-50 nonsense.  Each must give 100%.  Oh, dear, I'm not a marriage counsellor, just a 56 year old lioness with some experience.



> it could have been a man in the picture
> 
> the essence would have remained the same.


 
amarsanghera ji 

Not at all.  The point is that one would expect to see a man there, not a woman.  It is unusual to see a woman, who in Punjabi-Sikh culture is taught to stay in the background and not assert herself, put herself forward like that.  Look at the pictures of the recent clashes/protests in Punjab and Mumbai and compare the numbers of men and women.




> In Thailand, it is the Kaurs who boss around, and the Singhs are their "Yes Men".
> Bring some of the Thai Kaurs and the world will never be the same again, ever.


 
Oh, really?  Please send me the list of the ladies who are gurdwara presidents in Thailand.

On my computer, I can't get that second picture to download, so I have put it on as my avatar.  

I know this is already too long, but I have one more thing I need to say.

Let me tell the ending of my son's story.  I am, after all, his mother and terribly proud of him.  When the day came - and it did come - when he had to choose between cutting his kesh and possibly surviving or keeping it and certainly dying, he chose shaheedi.  Maybe that has nothing to do with this thread, really, but I think it needs to be told.  :shy:


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## spnadmin (Jul 30, 2008)

So there are two Kaurs and three Singhs speaking so far.  Singhs, you are welcome as always to join the talk, but.. Please, where are the other Kaurs?


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## Astroboy (Jul 30, 2008)

Presidents don't hold the powers to make the decisions, it is the vajeer (his menteri). 
This reminds me of the story of Akbar and his favorite advisor, Birbal.


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## spnadmin (Jul 30, 2008)

I don't know the story. :8-


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jul 31, 2008)

<<It is unusual to see a woman, who in Punjabi-Sikh culture is taught to stay in the background and not assert herself, put herself forward like that. Look at the pictures of the recent clashes/protests in Punjab and Mumbai and compare the numbers of men and women.>>

times, they are changing


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jul 31, 2008)

mai ji

what are your measuring scales to compare indian or thai kaurs?

being president of gurudwara?

is it a reasonable measure?


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jul 31, 2008)

adji

check this out

Akbar and Birbal Stories Index


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## spnadmin (Jul 31, 2008)

amarsangher ji

I will and respond. Looking for an excuse not to go to bed.


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## spnadmin (Jul 31, 2008)

amarji

Birbal is a keeper isn't he? Akbar a little on the dumb side, kinda like........


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## BhagatSingh (Jul 31, 2008)

haha! are those stories even true?
This one's my fav!
The {censored} And The Hen - Akbar and Birbal


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jul 31, 2008)

amarsanghera ji



> mai ji
> 
> what are your measuring scales to compare indian or thai kaurs?
> 
> ...


 
Actually I'm Canadian.  

Seems as reasonable as anything else for a measure.  You have some other suggestion?



> times, they are changing


 
I remember that song



> Come gather 'round people
> Wherever you roam
> And admit that the waters
> Around you have grown
> ...


 
After 300 years, it's about time.  I hope you're right.

namjap

Those Birbal/Akbar stories are priceless.  I liked the stupid brahmin, myself...rather like the western story of the emporer's new clothes.  Thanks for the link.  That barber got what he deserved.  Teach him to cut hairs!  :rofl!!:


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## Astroboy (Jul 31, 2008)

Mai Jee,

The links are provided by Amarsanghera, not me.

But I agree with Aad Ji that old women suffer the most. Most women outlive their spouses and therefore have to make sure that there are enough savings to last them a lifetime. Thus, seeing a woman to be selfish in nature is the wrong viewpoint. It's a survival trait passed on from one generation to another.


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## kds1980 (Jul 31, 2008)

Mai said:


> ads1980 ji
> 
> You are right, I did misunderstand.  I spent the whole night thinking about what you said.  (One legacy for me of surviving Delhi '84 is insomnia.)
> 
> ...



Mai ji

I agree with you that women are overworked.But this problem is not only the problem of sikh women only.It is problem faced by women of whole world and India it is much more

But there some reasons for which women themselves have to blame for it
In India every working woman and her parents want very highly educated and successful men.Majority of times you will see a woman doctor with doctor husband an executive woman with execuative husband.Now it is obvious that a highly succesful man is not going to help a woman in house hold chores.A successful man could marry any girl which he likes whether she is house wife,less educted less earning.But majority of times succesful women only goes for successful men.So sorry 21 st century women cannot get all these things
If they want real equality then they should start marrying less succesful less earning men
who could help them in house work.


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jul 31, 2008)

kds ji

that's a really strage logic

<<If they want real equality then they should start marrying less succesful less earning men
who could help them in house work.<<

why do you equate success, earning more with spending less time with family?


i really do'nt understand but you do seem to have a mental block for educated,modern women.

oops, i am being judgemental, but could not help it.


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## kds1980 (Jul 31, 2008)

> why do you equate success, earning more with spending less time with family?
> 
> 
> i really do'nt understand but you do seem to have a mental block for educated,modern women.



Amar there are only 24 hours in a day  and all people have limited stamina its obvious That highly successful cannot spend as much time with family as less successful.

For example a teacher whose job is of just 7-8 hours could be at home at 3 pm could spend much more time with family than CEO whose works demand 12 hours in office.

Now sometime's I feel that Modern educated liberals just live in their imaginery bookish world
which is not possible in reality .Now wonder family system is collapsed in europe

oops now I am judgemental


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jul 31, 2008)

<<If they want real equality then they should start marrying less succesful less earning men
who could help them in house work.>>

hours are our own making

no one passed a writ that there must be only 24 hours

Have you heard of the concept of 25th hour in the day?

<<For example a teacher whose job is of just 7-8 hours could be at home at 3 pm could spend much more time with family than CEO whose works demand 12 hours in office.>>

this either implies that you mean to say that a teacher is "less" successful in his chosen career that CEO, or just because he has more time, he spends more time with family

once again i want to reiterate that spending time, sharing responsibilities, working on relationships, being sympethetic comes with education and exposure to various facets of life.
This is a personal trait which gets developed.

and i just want to point out that "work" expands to fill "time"



<<Now sometime's I feel that Modern educated liberals just live in their imaginery bookish world
which is not possible in reality .Now wonder family system is collapsed in europe>>

simply a case of point of ereference.

to the "liberal" european westerns, maybe indian family model stinks with dowry deaths, relation bickerings etc etc etc..

let's not tread something we both do not have a first hand information about.


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## kds1980 (Jul 31, 2008)

> hours are our own making
> 
> no one passed a writ that there must be only 24 hours
> 
> Have you heard of the concept of 25th hour in the day?



Don't know what are you saying and I don't want to understand it There are 24 hours in a day and its ok for me 



> this either implies that you mean to say that a teacher is "less" successful in his chosen career that CEO, or just because he has more time, he spends more time with family



Of course a teacher in worldly terms is less succesful than CEO Just check the salaries and tell me :roll:
may be teachers salaies are at par with CEOs overnight


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jul 31, 2008)

<<Of course a teacher in worldly terms is less succesful than CEO Just check the salaries and tell me <<

so i get it

salary is your measure of success. 

enjoy !!

<<Don't know what are you saying and I don't want to understand it There are 24 hours in a day and its ok for me>>

i am not going to charge you for it !!


but only if you are a willing recipient of the secret knowledge


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## kds1980 (Jul 31, 2008)

> so i get it
> 
> salary is your measure of success.
> 
> enjoy !!



It is not my measure.it is world's measure .
Why do we say Bill Gates,Dhirubhai Ambani and billionare's are succesful .Simple because of their wealth

And if you don't beleive me just ask some youngsters which are studying computers,MBBS,MBA etc and ask them what is their motive behind doing these courses.The answer is simple Big pay packets


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jul 31, 2008)

kds ji

going back to the original line we started discussion
<If they want real equality then they should start marrying less succesful less earning men
who could help them in house work.>

you have turned your own opinion  into a world opinion

<It is not my measure.it is world's measure .
Why do we say Bill Gates,Dhirubhai Ambani and billionare's are succesful .Simple because of their wealth>>


Are you sure that Bill Gates does not help out Melinda Gates?
Please read their biography.

As for me, i consider an old uneducated couple who had a dream to get their children educated and well settled as successful when they were able work together to save enough to fund their studies
Success is a measure of completion of the shared goals and dreams, not just a fatter packet or a shinier car.
Modern women marry men who can make them partners in their goals and dreams. Who can share rather than provide.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jul 31, 2008)

Namjap Ji



> The links are provided by Amarsanghera, not me.


 
Oops. I'm well-known for getting simple things mixed up. Sorry.:hmm:

Success has as many definitions as there are people defining it. I'm staying out of the argument.

My husband, Mani was an oncologist, a cancer doctor. In the 1970s, many more cancer patients died than is the case now. His work was difficult and emotionally draining to him. He often came home close to tears of empathy for his patients.:8-

Nonetheless, he was always observant of my condition and he helped in whatever way I needed. He was never more handsome, masculine and loved than when he was washing dinner dishes after a hard day on the farm for me. As a financially 'successful' - although by no means wealthy - couple, we also were willing and able to pay for help when we needed it around the house. And he loved playing with our son, which gave them both recreation and me a rest.

:idea:It seems to me that if both spouses are working, as is the norm today, they could put together a fund to pay for some help with the housework, freeing them and giving her a break. It might mean giving up some other pleasure, but that's a matter of priorities.

In the end, though, the Kaur needs to empower herself, through the power of Guru Ji. She needs to know what she wants, how much she is willing to handle and have a plan to fulfill herself as a human being. If she is a daughter of Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj, she has a great well of strength, courage, hope and chardi kala to draw on. It's not easy, but it is possible.

I believe it is necessary that she put her values as a Sikh, preferably an Amritdhari Sikh, first. One of these values is self-esteem, the knowledge of who she is, what she is and what she is about. Remembering that, she can hold her head up among any group, knowing she represents her Guru with dignity and pride.

It would be very nice to have to cooperation of the Singhs. We love and treasure our men. :shy: I know I'm 56 and not in the matrimonial market, but honestly, I don't see how a young lady can fail to be attracted to a strong, proud turbaned Sikh man. Even at my age, I admit such men - of any age - still send tingles down my spine.

But with or without their help, we Singhnis need to stand up, open our mouths, voice our ideas and insist on being heard. Ah, yes, we need to bellow a bit! sometimes - 2: ...And They Bellow


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## Sinister (Jul 31, 2008)

kds1980 said:


> And if you don't beleive me just ask some youngsters which are studying computers,MBBS,MBA etc and ask them what is their motive behind doing these courses.The answer is simple Big pay packets


 
The agent of motivation that is required for someone to complete intensive studies is general interest in the subject, not greed. 

A “youngster”, whose prime motive is based primarily and purely on financial return can never complete MBBS (no matter how much she or he loves money)

I GIVE YOU MY WORD ON THAT!!! 





kds1980 said:


> Why do we say Bill Gates,Dhirubhai Ambani and billionare's are succesful .Simple because of their wealth


 
is how much money you have a measure of success? Does society think this is success? Society is a cruel judge…they fall in love with you one day and hate you the next. 

How many people (in society) would consider Hitler a success story?
Stalin?
Bush?
Indira Gandhi?
J.D Rockafeller?
Britney Spears?
Paris Hilton?
Or how about Prince Williams? 
Micheal Jackson?

Surely these people earned (earn) lots of money (heck, one of them managed to conquer half the world)..yet public perception is rather mute in calling them successful. (Especially when they are walking out of Rehab clinics or death camps) 

Society does not measure success on the basis of money, but persona... and on the basis of whether or not you have completed your goals in life. Whether you have added or detracted to the livelihood of others. 

society is a very intelligeant organism...it learns very quickly, adapts and changes.


Aside:
Woman belong in the workplace, I have noticed their capabilities and I can say that their finished products are usually of high quality 

(Woman are equal to men in intellect, however, someone seriously needs to teach them how to drive ).


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## pk70 (Jul 31, 2008)

( quote sinister ji)
is how much money you have a measure of success? Does society think this is success? Society is a cruel judge…they fall in love with you one day and hate you the next. 

How many people (in society) would consider Hitler a success story?
Stalin?
Bush?
Indira Gandhi?
J.D Rockafeller?
Britney Spears?
Paris Hilton?
Or how about Prince Williams? 
Micheal Jackson?

Surely these people earned (earn) lots of money (heck, one of them managed to conquer half the world)..yet public perception is rather mute in calling them successful. (Especially when they are walking out of Rehab clinics or death camps) 

Society does not measure success on the basis of money, but persona... and on the basis of whether or not you have completed your goals in life. Whether you have added or detracted to the livelihood of others. 

society is a very intelligeant organism...it learns very quickly, adapts and changes.


Aside:
Woman belong in the workplace, I have noticed their capabilities and I can say that their finished products are usually of high quality 

(Woman are equal to men in intellect, however, someone seriously needs to teach them how to drive ).

A few would think that way, when they do, world  will look different
No wonder I like sinister's comments loaded with deep meaning !:happy No buttering !)


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## Astroboy (Jul 31, 2008)

Mai Jee,

Here's something that I found as interesting to understand and act upon right away.
The Paradigm Shift by Bob Proctor from The SECRET - Video


Bob Proctor on Larry King Live - Video


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## kds1980 (Jul 31, 2008)

> The agent of motivation that is required for someone to complete intensive studies is general interest in the subject, not greed.
> 
> A “youngster”, whose prime motive is based primarily and purely on financial return can never complete MBBS (no matter how much she or he loves money)
> 
> I GIVE YOU MY WORD ON THAT!!!



Not at all.In country like India You have choose a creer in which jobs are available with big pay packets
I am sorry but this is real world of India.My brother is currently doing masters in computers and he told me that 70% to 80% of his friends never wanted to be in computers.Someone wanted to be in Indian air force or some one give up his career in cricket.Reason Plenty of jobs In IT sector bigger pay packets
Infact parents all over India force their chilbren to opt lucrative careers .The obedient children accept what their parents say while very few rebel.Also my cousin sister is also doing graduation in computer science and she is topper in her college.But she openly says that she hates computers and wanted to be in mass.

Sorry Sinister life is much different in developed and developing countries.You have adjust to the circumstances of life.


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## kds1980 (Jul 31, 2008)

> you have turned your own opinion into a world opinion



Not at all Amar ji.The real world is very much different of this forum world.Just involve in any arrange marriage process and you will get the answer.The first question which a girl's parents ask is What is boy doing,How much he is earning? If you tell them that he is truck driver barely making 8,000 per month then a father of computer professional will throw you out of his house saying is this my daughter.But if you ask him that boy is computer professional making 50-60 k pm then parents and girl will go further in process.



> Are you sure that Bill Gates does not help out Melinda Gates?
> Please read their biography.



Oh please I don't want to debate about Bill and melinda Now.Also there are millions of husbands who help their wives but nobody know their name



> As for me, i consider an old uneducated couple who had a dream to get their children educated and well settled as successful when they were able work together to save enough to fund their studies
> Success is a measure of completion of the shared goals and dreams, not just a fatter packet or a shinier car.
> Modern women marry men who can make them partners in their goals and dreams. Who can share rather than provide.



My personal defination is also different but it is useless in this world.I have to accept what is the defination of successful for world.We all can make our definations.

Amar ji when you started writing on forum I thought you are a person with great practical knowledge of India.But to be honest I am disappointed that you too prefer in writing theortical term rather than practical.

If I start beleiving world of forums then this world should be no less than heaven as everybody writes here so good.But In Reality majority do what is practical world is doing


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## kds1980 (Jul 31, 2008)

> is how much money you have a measure of success? Does society think this is success? Society is a cruel judge…they fall in love with you one day and hate you the next.
> 
> How many people (in society) would consider Hitler a success story?
> Stalin?
> ...



Sinister let me tell you a story in reply.a few years ago I watched a documentry of mahout and his elephant That mahout was perhaps very satisfied and happy in serving his elephant.One night he had a dream in which his elephant said that in next life you will be my elephant and I will be you mahout
He said I agree.So he did not have problem getting next birth as elephant.Such was the satisfaction of that mahout

Now the goal of this mahout was to serve and be with his elephant.Now my question is do this society
accepts these people as succesful?

The point of the story is there are millions of people who have very small goals which they acheive but for society they are not at all successful

The example's you quoted are very few and had/have big ambitions which they succeed or partially succeed.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Aug 1, 2008)

As one probably as old as two of you together, let me share my experience:

1. Practicality is overrated.  Such a dull way to live.:down:

2.  Material success is overrated.  "S/he who knows that enough is enough will always have enough.":u):

3.  Life is an adventure to be lived, not a problem to be solved.  For all the various genders.:happy:

4.  Loving Vaheguru and following our Guru/s is happiness and fulfillment.

5.  Nonetheless, it's a good idea to enjoy Maya while you're hear, knowing that all wounds will be healed in the bed of the True Husband.

6.  Remain in chardi kala!  Always and forever.  No matter what!

7.  Eat ice cream on every possible occaision:ice:

8.  "There is nothing left to you at this moment but tohave a good laugh."  (Zen) :rofl!!:

"And ain't I a woman?"  


"That man over there says that women need to be helped into carriages, and lifted over ditches, and to have the best place everywhere. Nobody ever helps me into carriages, or over mud-puddles, or gives me any best place! And ain't I a woman? Look at me! Look at my arm! I have ploughed and planted, and gathered into barns, and no man could head me! And ain't I a woman? I could work as much and eat as much as a man - when I could get it - and bear the lash as well! And ain't I a woman? I have borne thirteen children, and seen most all sold off to slavery, and when I cried out with my mother's grief, none but Jesus heard me! And ain't I a woman? "  Sojourner Truth, 1851


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## Archived_Member_19 (Aug 1, 2008)

<<Not at all Amar ji.The real world is very much different of this forum world.Just involve in any arrange marriage process and you will get the answer.The first question which a girl's parents ask is What is boy doing,How much he is earning? If you tell them that he is truck driver barely making 8,000 per month then a father of computer professional will throw you out of his house saying is this my daughter.But if you ask him that boy is computer professional making 50-60 k pm then parents and girl will go further in process.>>

you are giving  avery theoretical example

why would a truck driver even get to meet the parents of a girl who expect a professional if its an arranged marriage?

i find this an unrealistic scenario.

<<Oh please I don't want to debate about Bill and melinda Now.Also there are millions of husbands who help their wives but nobody know their name>>

thank you. you yourself answered the point. If there are millions of men who help their wives, then are millions of them unsucessful and less earning?


<<My personal defination is also different but it is useless in this world.I have to accept what is the defination of successful for world.We all can make our definations.>>

kds ji

we all have choices to make, we can live by our own standards for ourselves and be ourselves, or we can forever be images of someone's impressions and thoughts.

what else is life without optimism?

ut i understand, its a choice you made, you would live and strive to be successful by what world expects and as Sinister shared, God Help you live up to it 

<<Amar ji when you started writing on forum I thought you are a person with great practical knowledge of India.But to be honest I am disappointed that you too prefer in writing theortical term rather than practical.>>

yes KDS ji, i am an immature person who writes from his gut. knowing about the "boundaries" is not the end to all, eliminating and thinking beyound the obvoius is important, atleast in my opinion.

<<If I start beleiving world of forums then this world should be no less than heaven as everybody writes here so good.But In Reality majority do what is practical world is doing>>>



alas there are only 100 active members on the board


<<<Not at all.In country like India You have choose a creer in which jobs are available with big pay packets
<<<I am sorry but this is real world of India.My brother is currently doing masters in computers and he told me that 70% to 80% of his friends never wanted to be in computers.Someone wanted to be in Indian air force or some one give up his career in cricket.Reason Plenty of jobs In IT sector bigger pay packets>>>

this is a lie, the guy who says that he quit cricket...he never was passionate abt it enough, or he realized that he was not being fulfilled enough with the game and its challenges.




<<<Infact parents all over India force their chilbren to opt lucrative careers .The obedient children accept what their parents say while very few rebel.>>

why do you have to call it rebel?

why not empower the children to engage in dialogue?

KDS ji i just hope that you do try this out with your kids.


<<Also my cousin sister is also doing graduation in computer science and she is topper in her college.But she openly says that she hates computers and wanted to be in mass.>>>

KDS ji

have you asked her that why is she doing it?

beneath her decision, there would be a goal, objective she wants to fulfill.

probe her, beyond the money, beyond position.

You will get the answer.

She is making compromise for something she herself is not able to verbalize. Help her do that. i assure you, she will stop proclaiming that she hates computers else she would change her course.

<<<Sorry Sinister life is much different in developed and developing countries.You have adjust to the circumstances of life.>>>

KDS jii agree thatopportunities differ among countries, but this still does not justify that why do you join the rat race


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## kds1980 (Aug 1, 2008)

> you are giving avery theoretical example
> 
> why would a truck driver even get to meet the parents of a girl who expect a professional if its an arranged marriage?
> 
> i find this an unrealistic scenario.



The question here is why can't a person who is driving driving truck can marry a computer professional?



> thank you. you yourself answered the point. If there are millions of men who help their wives, then are millions of them unsucessful and less earning?



Wait where I said that all these are less successful aor less earning



> kds ji
> 
> we all have choices to make, we can live by our own standards for ourselves and be ourselves, or we can forever be images of someone's impressions and thoughts.
> 
> ...



For majority of people life is compromise.It is the social pressure that drives people to work,to marry,to have kids.Very few people get the career of their choice.70% of India is engaged in agriculture
That does not mean they interested in it.Others drive's trucks buses and do so many jobs which people
hardly want to do



> alas there are only 100 active members on the board



I am not only talking about this forum .You misunderstand me on lot of things



> this is a lie, the guy who says that he quit cricket...he never was passionate abt it enough, or he realized that he was not being fulfilled enough with the game and its challenges.



Not at all there millions in India who are passionate about cricket but only less than 100 will make into entry in Indian team the some others could play at nationnal level.The others have to compromise with the truth.You cannot put a million in cricketing career



> why do you have to call it rebel?
> 
> why not empower the children to engage in dialogue?
> 
> KDS ji i just hope that you do try this out with your kids.



I am calling it rebel because you have to choose career in India at very early age where you are totally in experianed about life.At that time teenagers are full of dream .They think life is just a piece of cake.
But as they grow old they started realising that life is not what they thought.Parents generally are much more experianced and practical



> KDS ji
> 
> have you asked her that why is she doing it?
> 
> ...



There is big story behind it.she want's to make film and that too in hollywood .At present she is doing it only for money and because job oppurtunities are plenty in IT sector


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## Archived_Member_19 (Aug 1, 2008)

<<The question here is why can't a person who is driving driving truck can marry a computer professional?>>

if there is a mutual liking...which i am not sure is the objective of arranged marriage as the starting point

<<Wait where I said that all these are less successful aor less earning>>

in your previous posts you had mentioned that if women want men who would help them, they need to marry les successful/less earning guys

<<Not at all there millions in India who are passionate about cricket but only less than 100 will make into entry in Indian team the some others could play at nationnal level.The others have to compromise with the truth.You cannot put a million in cricketing career>>.

why not?

if you are good enough and think that this is something that would make you complete...why not pursue it to the end?

who are those 100 ones?

<<I am calling it rebel because you have to choose career in India at very early age where you are totally in experianed about life.At that time teenagers are full of dream .They think life is just a piece of cake.
But as they grow old they started realising that life is not what they thought.Parents generally are much more experianced and practical>>

many a experienced people wanted to mould Guru Nanak's way of life too


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## spnadmin (Aug 1, 2008)

"That man over there says that women need to be helped into carriages, and lifted over ditches, and to have the best place everywhere. Nobody ever helps me into carriages, or over mud-puddles, or gives me any best place! And ain't I a woman? Look at me! Look at my arm! I have ploughed and planted, and gathered into barns, and no man could head me! And ain't I a woman? I could work as much and eat as much as a man - when I could get it - and bear the lash as well! And ain't I a woman? I have borne thirteen children, and seen most all sold off to slavery, and when I cried out with my mother's grief, none but Jesus heard me! And ain't I a woman? " Sojourner Truth, 1851

Mai -- people forget so easily.


Just for info: There may be some forum members who don't know who Sojourner Truth is. She was a very important "abolitionist" in the US who fought for the abolition of slavery and later for the right of women to vote. The same women who were being helped into carriages and over mud-patties when she was not, these women could not vote anymore than Sojourner Truth could save her children from being sold into slavery. And they resented her later when she fought for the emancipation of women.


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## kds1980 (Aug 1, 2008)

> if there is a mutual liking...which i am not sure is the objective of arranged marriage as the starting point



I think We were discussing whether money is benchmark of succes for soceity or not.By saying that a truck Driver cannot marry a computer professional girl you have proved my point that money is benchmark.Now change the The person of my example from truck driver to owner of mini transport company owning 3-4 trucks and earning 1.5 lakhs per month.I am sure that in arrange marriage this person could marry a computer professional girl



> in your previous posts you had mentioned that if women want men who would help them, they need to marry les successful/less earning guys



You said that Bill gates helped melinda and I said that there are millions of men who help their wives.
I don't know where i said that those are less earning men.Anyway may be there is misunderstanding on my part or on your part



> who are those 100 ones?



Amar ji do you beleive that those who are most passionate about cricketget selected in cricket team.I think you need to read a lot about life of cricketers.One example is Yuvraj singh forget about him being passionate about cricket he use to run from cricket in teenage.He just fulfilled his father's dream.Cricket was never passion for him.Anyway its a big discussion who get selected.


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## spnadmin (Aug 1, 2008)

*Kaur Power* - *Power to Truth*



Soujourner Truth

*Sojourner Truth* (1797-1883) was the self-given name, from 1843, of *Isabella Baumfree*, an American abolitionist and women's rights activist. Truth was born into slavery in Swartekill, New York. Her best-known speech, Ain't I a Woman?, was delivered in 1851 at the Ohio Women's Rights Convention in Akron, Ohio.


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## spnadmin (Aug 1, 2008)

*Kaur Power - Power to the Mai*

[FONT=verdana,arial]












Mai Bhago
[/FONT]*Great Sikh Warriors*


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## spnadmin (Aug 1, 2008)

*Kaur Power - More Power to the Mai*


Guru Amardas condemned Hindus for sati, allowed widow remarriage.  He divided the area (not explained in article as a specific geographic location, but we can assume Punjab) into 22 branches called Manjis and appointed a local Sikh preacher at each place. Here are the names of 3 women he appointed to preach Sikhism.



Mai Das Bairagi in charge of Ludhiana dist.
Mai Bhago at village Wayun, tehsil Kharar, dist. Rupar.
Mai Sewan at Village Gardnoh in Patiala District.
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,comic sans ms]
[/FONT]*Guru Amardas ji*


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## kds1980 (Aug 1, 2008)

Antonia ji

Thanks for putting this thread back on track .We men have already derailed this thread which include me also


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## spnadmin (Aug 1, 2008)

kdsji

No problem. I confess I don't know as much about cricket as I should. Learning experience.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Aug 1, 2008)

About all I know of cricket is that Monty Panesar is easy on the eyes, lol!

Antronia ji, thanks for telling everyone about Sojourner Truth.  She is one of my heroes, one tough, strong, loving woman that helps me feel good about being a member of the human race.  If anyone is interested, her "Ain't I A Woman" speech can be found at   Modern History Sourcebook: Sojourner Truth: Ain't I a Woman.  It's only a few paragraphs long and well worth reading.  Her courage and strength is truly touching.  She is an empowering woman.


While all this discussion of the Mai is going on, perhaps it would be appropriate to explain my nickname, Mai.  My name is Harinder Kaur, but from the day of my birth, I have always been called Mai.

When I was newborn, shortly after my first meal, mt youngest brother's best friend, a boy of 10, was asked to hold me.  He started shaking, he was so scared to hold the tiny new life, but I was nonetheless thrust on him - and proceeded immediately to throw up that first meal all over him.  My Dad cracked up and exclaimed, 'That one cannot tolerate a coward!  We have another Mai Bhago on our hands.'  And ever since, I have been Mai.

And I still believe in helping people to find the courage within themselves to be all they can be, hence this thread.

BTW, the boy wasn't really a coward, he just needed to be pushed a bit;  I married him 18 years later to the day.


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## spnadmin (Aug 1, 2008)

*BTW, the boy wasn't really a coward, he just needed to be pushed a bit;  I married him 18 years later to the day.

*That is wonderful to know!*:happy:*But then on the other hand, he got over it and went on to hold a lot of babies.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Aug 1, 2008)

aad0002 - Antonia Ji said




> That is wonderful to know!*:happy:*But then on the other hand, he got over it and went on to hold a lot of babies.


 

And he changed diapers, too! 

What a sweetheart!:shy:  

A real Khalsa gentleman.


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## spnadmin (Aug 2, 2008)

*Kaur Power - Strength of Women*

YouTube - Strength of Women

*Sat Kirin Kaur*


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## Astroboy (Aug 2, 2008)

Poetry Section - Strong Women vs Women of Strength


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## spnadmin (Aug 2, 2008)

That was very moving, Nam Jap ji!


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Aug 2, 2008)

Nam Jap Ji,

I love that poem.

:idea:And I have a thought...

If I am expected to at least attempt to be both sant and sipahi...

Can I not also attempt to be a woman of strength AND a strong woman?

Hmmmmmm......


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## Astroboy (Aug 2, 2008)

Best of Both Worlds - Punjabi Women
http://www.oise.utoronto.ca/CASAE/cnf2003/2003_papers/psodhiCAS03.pdf


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Aug 2, 2008)

nam jap ji -

I had to laugh as I read that paper. I remember how my brothers used to grumble about being expected to cook, do laundry, clean up, etc. by Dad who, while believing in gender equality, remained very much the patriarch. It mattered not one whit to Dad that they were married and had wives, in his home, everybody did everything.

And while I was pretty much free to socialise with whomever appealed to me, Dad saw to it that our home was the most pleasant place for me to hang out. I never had the slightest desire to date; I always knew who I wanted to marry and saw no point in bothering with 'boys.' I did write a post in my personal blog imaging how Dad would have reacted if some boy tried to date me; it is fiction, but I imagine it wouldn't be far from fact. sometimes - 2: MY DAD AND DATING

I was not raised as a typical Punjabi or even Punjabi-Canadian woman. I was explicitly told that there was one and only one thing that I was incapable of doing because of my gender - I simply could not father a child.

So I was brought up to be empowered. Sometimes I forget that other women, especially Sikh women have to break out of these psychological prisons. Whatever. There's no time like the present for all of us to start to become the strong, beautiful daughters of Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj Ji that we are most certainly capable of being.:happy:


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## Archived_Member_19 (Aug 2, 2008)

<<I think We were discussing whether money is benchmark of succes for soceity or not.By saying that a truck Driver cannot marry a computer professional girl you have proved my point that money is benchmark.Now change the The person of my example from truck driver to owner of mini transport company owning 3-4 trucks and earning 1.5 lakhs per month.I am sure that in arrange marriage this person could marry a computer professional girl>>

kds ji

you got it completely wrong.

I just pointed out that arranged marriages start with certain pre conditions and money is not always the motive, compatibility is.

However in love mariages, it is attraction and understanding

those who marry for money...God help them 

btw, i have seen cases where girls have refused to marry guys with not only trucks but truck loads of money coz they were not educated enough.

it was not because they were "less" successful but because having similar metal and intellectual level makes life much easier.

many of the married board members can validate that.

please do not label a desire to get a person with same intellectual level as greed for money.

though i agree that quite a few girls who go for money, but that is a different story, i do not consider them quite smart 

<<You said that Bill gates helped melinda and I said that there are millions of men who help their wives.
I don't know where i said that those are less earning men.Anyway may be there is misunderstanding on my part or on your part>>

please look back at your own post which started this debate. you mentioned that if educated women expect their husbands to help them, they should marry ones who are not so rich and not so successful.

this and later assertion that millions of men help their wives just proves the statement i made.

<<Amar ji do you beleive that those who are most passionate about cricketget selected in cricket team.I think you need to read a lot about life of cricketers.One example is Yuvraj singh forget about him being passionate about cricket he use to run from cricket in teenage.He just fulfilled his father's dream.Cricket was never passion for him.Anyway its a big discussion who get selected.>>>

oh yes, good that you brought it up, as far as i remember, Yuvraj used to sleep with a cricket bat with him....

don't believe my words, read his interview where he shares how much he loves cricket..

rediff.com: cricket channel: Transcript of an Interview with Yuvraj Singh

and yes, ur right, his father moulded him into a cricketer.

but there is no way to state that he was forced into one.


btw, what i wrote, is a juicy insider byte


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## spnadmin (Aug 2, 2008)

*
Kaur Power*


http://www.mrsikhnet.com/index.php/2007/05/01/miri-piri-academy-leads-gatka-camp-in-new-delhi/

"Miri Piri Academy, being the only school whose curriculum includes a step-by-step certification program of the Sikh martial art, Gatka, was invited to New Delhi to instruct kids of ages of 10-17. Hosted by the Siri Guru Harkrishan Public School, around 300 students from different schools attended the three-day course (April 24 - 26) organized and run by students of Miri Piri Acadmey. This was headed up by Jugat Guru Singh, Sadasat Simran Singh, and Harimandirjot Singh of Chardikala Jatha who expressed that they have not experienced such an enthusiastic and heartfelt response in all the camps they have taught.


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## kds1980 (Aug 2, 2008)

Dear Amar

There is no point discussing as you hardly try to understand what I am saying

Let me clarify

1)Nowhere I am saying that women only marry money.I am just saying that in arrange marrige's the process start with the boy's income This the first concern of girl's parent's Then the process go further
The rejection could come at any stage from girl's side or boy's side.But If the boy's income is quite low compare to girl's income or financial status of Girl's parents the rejection is most probably possible
from girl's side at first stage.



> please look back at your own post which started this debate. you mentioned that if educated women expect their husbands to help them, they should marry ones who are not so rich and not so successful.
> 
> this and later assertion that millions of men help their wives just proves the statement i made.



I am still saying that it is overall very good for Indian society if women start marrying men with less income Women who are succesful could say that it is pre condition for them to marry a guy who will help them is house hold work.But this will put majority of succesful,highly educated
men out because they will hardly accept this condition.If you understand this whole process of arrange marriage then you very well know that highly educated men are much in Demand in every community and every parents want their daughter to get married to them that's why they even pay high dowry to succesful men, on the other hand highly educated and high earning women are not much in demand
Infact marriage  become difficuilt for them because there parents and they themselves look for men which are equally or more succesful and earning them.So the ball of arrange marriage alway's remain in succesful men's court.

And when I said helping wives then anybody could do it but that help could be of a minute or hours.It was general statement





> oh yes, good that you brought it up, as far as i remember, Yuvraj used to sleep with a cricket bat with him....
> 
> don't believe my words, read his interview where he shares how much he loves cricket..




Yuvraj Singh: The Prince comes home: Cricket Next
Meha Bharadwaj: But cricket was not Yuvraj’s first passion, it was actually skating and he went on to become the National Skating champion. Can you explain us the incident when you got your father that medal? What happened to it?


Yuvraj Singh: I think, I was the youngest in the Under-14 batch, I was probably 11 or 12. I came back with a gold in the national skating championship and said, 'dad, I won a gold today.' But, he stopped the car, took out the medal from around my neck, took off my skates and threw them out of the window and said, 'from now on, you are going to play cricket!'


He further said that it is enough of your skating. And now if you don’t play cricket, I will break your legs. And I got so scared that I just said 'OK.' *So, it was a bit forceful at that moment because I really didn’t enjoy playing one sport only*. But after that I started to enjoy cricket a lot and that’s about it.

Now amar ji Do you still want to say that yuvraj singh was among most passionate of cricket among million of boys which were playing at that time


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## Archived_Member_19 (Aug 2, 2008)

kds ji

i know more abt the story first hand than the quotes you have given..hence you wouldn't understand.

<<I am still saying that it is overall very good for Indian society if women start marrying men with less income Women who are succesful could say that it is pre condition for them to marry a guy who will help them is house hold work.But this will put majority of succesful,highly educated
men out because they will hardly accept this condition.>>

once again, you are generalizing without much information.

by your assumptions, marriage of two well educated and professional persons is nothing but a disaster or a rarity.

however, i can see a lot of things to the contrary.

<<I am just saying that in arrange marrige's the process start with the boy's income This the first concern of girl's parent's Then the process go further The rejection could come at any stage from girl's side or boy's side.But If the boy's income is quite low compare to girl's income or financial status of Girl's parents the rejection is most probably possible from girl's side at first stage.>>

see kds ji

arranged marriage is a system with pros and cons

it is like matching two persons and people use indicators

guy's salary is just ONE of them, not something that overrides everything.

its simply a mating game, that happens in the natural world

males strut their stuff for females and they choose.

so a succesful woman will oviously look for a successful male.

but i want to point out that the assumption that having a less successful husband/wife makes life better is nothing but a sad attempt of chauvanism.


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## Archived_Member_19 (Aug 2, 2008)

i don't think the debate is going anywhere, as you are struck with notions that modern educated women are:

1. irreligious- because they do not fit into the traditional understaning of religion
2. Bad mothers- as they do not want to force their children into an ideology
3. chauvanists - because they want equal say in the relationship
3. snobs - as they consider money above person's personality and heart

however i have completely opposite opinions

maybe its just experiences we have.


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## spnadmin (Aug 2, 2008)

*Kaur Power *
*
Kabaddi Kaurs*   Ya gotta see this one! 

YouTube - Girls Kabaddi


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## Sinister (Aug 2, 2008)

kds1980 said:


> .Also my cousin sister is also doing graduation in computer science and she is topper in her college.But she openly says that she hates computers and wanted to be in mass.
> 
> Sorry Sinister life is much different in developed and developing countries.You have adjust to the circumstances of life.


 
So, you mean to tell me that your cousin, who is a topper in her class, has absolutely 0% interest in what she is studying?

For a person who boasts practicality and real world analysis, your psychoanalysis is highly dissapointing. It just barely scratches the surface of a persons psyche…1 layer of the onion.

Your cousin doesn’t actually hate what she is studying.

once you enter a professional school (whether you are forced into it or gone in with your own decision) you can either "love it or leave it" (just like a marriage)(its the only way you can move on with your life). Your cousin has probably learnt to love it, which is why she is doing so well. 


as far as the definition for success is concerned, notice a trait inherent within all societies:

There is no society where there existed a homogenous consensus on the judgment and legacy of a person. There are always many groups of critics, who are ready to play devils advocate on an instants notice.

cheers


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## kds1980 (Aug 3, 2008)

> by your assumptions, marriage of two well educated and professional persons is nothing but a disaster or a rarity.



Nowhere I am saying that marriage of two well educated professional is disaster.But majority of times it is women who keep's on doing all house hold work This I was discussing Mai ji.



> guy's salary is just ONE of them, not something that overrides everything.



Have you seen an arrange marrige process with you eyes?When I was teenager I lived in Joint Family
My Grandmother was searching a wife for my chacha whose income was very low as a result he was not rejected by 1-2 families But plenty of families.The rejction did come's at very initial stage.
Yes in arrange marriage A guy's income and and his earning capability is very important.If income or Earning capabilty is quite low then process don't go further

I want to ask you 1 question.We all know that this world work's on concept of demand supply.At present there are mor men in India than women then why still girls family pay a high dowry?
They don't pay dowry to a just a man they pay it success and career of a man.More educated and
successful man the more dowry he receive's



> so a succesful woman will oviously look for a successful male.



You are right succesful women obviuosly look succesful men and those who are ready to become house wfe also look for succesful men so in this whole process where should less succesful men go?


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## kds1980 (Aug 3, 2008)

amarsanghera said:


> i don't think the debate is going anywhere, as you are struck with notions that modern educated women are:
> 
> 1. irreligious- because they do not fit into the traditional understaning of religion
> 2. Bad mothers- as they do not want to force their children into an ideology
> ...




You are right there is no point discussing thing with a person who just make an assumption what other person is thinking.No where I said These things infact I did not uttered a word what typre of mother they are


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## KulwantK (Aug 3, 2008)

Sat Nam, Everyone!
Seems like there are some mis-understandings on this thread of posts.
Here are some points to consider:
     Each individual has his or her own definition of success.  Oftenly it includes what that individual percieves what society says it is, along with whatever it is that makes that individual happy to be doing.
     When all Kaurs have the same opportunities of education as Singhs, then we know we are on the road to true empowerment and equality.
     When any Kaur who wishes to wash the floors of the Golden Temple is happily invited to do so then we will know we are on that happy road.
     The keys to it are keeping Nam Simran, education opportunites, and true compassion for all less fortunate than ourselves, no matter what their gender, race, creed, color, or nationality, and this all includes knowing when to be loud and persistent, and knowing when to have patience and wait for good opportunities to be effective in our words and actions for ourselves and each other.
Cheers and Blessings,
KulwantK


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## Archived_Member_19 (Aug 3, 2008)

There is no society where there existed a homogenous consensus on the judgment and legacy of a person. There are always many groups of critics, who are ready to play devils advocate on an instants notice.


sinister thoughts


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## Sinister (Aug 3, 2008)

amarsanghera said:


> There is no society where there existed a homogenous consensus on the judgment and legacy of a person. There are always many groups of critics, who are ready to play devils advocate on an instants notice.
> 
> 
> sinister thoughts


 
Sinister thoughts in a Dexter world. 

Someone has to live up to the name :}8-:


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## Archived_Member_19 (Aug 3, 2008)

Dexter's World


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## Astroboy (Aug 3, 2008)

*Ah Chooo!!!

YouTube - All Dogs Go to Heaven - Let Me Be Surprised
*


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## spnadmin (Aug 3, 2008)

New take on *Kaur Power*


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## kds1980 (Aug 5, 2008)

> So, you mean to tell me that your cousin, who is a topper in her class, has absolutely 0% interest in what she is studying?



Sinister where did you ask me how much percentage of interest is required and where i said she has 0% interest in computers

Just look what you said

"A “youngster”, whose prime motive is based primarily and purely on financial return can never complete MBBS (no matter how much she or he loves money)"

You talked about primary motive and I told you what her primary motive is And that is Money.Btw yesterday was her birthday she is now a university topper and she also told me that I very well know that I am doing this course only for money.

And she is not alone about her primary motivation of money.Majority of youngsters in India opt for lucrative fields because their primary motivation is money.

Just reduce the salaries of IT sector of INdia by half and you will see many youngsters will run out of this sector



> For a person who boasts practicality and real world analysis, your psychoanalysis is highly dissapointing. It just barely scratches the surface of a persons psyche…1 layer of the onion.



Who are you to judge whether my analsys is right or wrong.Every person beleive that he/she is right



> Your cousin doesn’t actually hate what she is studying.
> 
> once you enter a professional school (whether you are forced into it or gone in with your own decision) you can either "love it or leave it" (just like a marriage)(its the only way you can move on with your life). Your cousin has probably learnt to love it, which is why she is doing so well.



You are right she probably has developed interest in computers the way majority of youngsters develop interest in their work.This is called compromise



> as far as the definition for success is concerned, notice a trait inherent within all societies:
> 
> There is no society where there existed a homogenous consensus on the judgment and legacy of a person. There are always many groups of critics, who are ready to play devils advocate on an instants notice.



Succcess in terms of money is vastly accepted by majority of societies and people love to play devils advocate but when it comes to them or their families then majority prefer to take U turn.For example an amritdhari sikh who do kirtan and live a simple lifestyle  but does not have enough money is considered as successful  by sikh society and people will love to defend him as successful but just ask them whether they want their children to be like him/her they will immdiately take U turn


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## Sinister (Aug 5, 2008)

kds1980 said:


> You talked about primary motive and I told you what her primary motive is And that is Money...
> 
> And she is not alone about her primary motivation of money.Majority of youngsters in India opt for lucrative fields because their primary motivation is money.


 

Primary motive for picking a career is never greed!

It’s reason (which is a cesspool of directive ideas evoked by a culmination and equilibrium of emotions; fear, anxiety, love, amusement, desire, greed blah blah blah)

Now do you see the fallibility of your argument?

(if a person made a career choice based primarily on greed … they are bound to become criminals…considering crime is the most lucrative career with the most return on investment...but fear of retribution leads them to the reasonable conclusion that it is not worth the risks) 

your ideas and assertions have a practicality of about 10% when it comes to a real world psychoanalysis*.




kds1980 said:


> Who are you to judge whether my analsys is right or wrong.Every person beleive that he/she is right


 


Who am I? 
I am who you think I am

your analysis is not entirely wrong…I just happen to think that it is shallow and non-practical, just wanted to inject some depth. Get the rusted gears in our brains oiled again.


cheers


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## spnadmin (Aug 5, 2008)

*Kaur Power

*Research on Sri Guru Granth Sahib titled "Philosophy of Guru Granth Sahib and its Educational Implications" by _Lakhbir Kaur Bahra_ has been awarded Ph.D. (Education) by University of Lucknow. This work has been carried out under the guidance of Professor _Moraddhwaj Varma_ of Department of Education of University of Lucknow. This work has pioneered in exploring many new and hidden aspects of the philosophical and educational implications of the eleventh Guru of the Sikh faith i.e. Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Scholars and educationists have opined that this work will prove a landmark and go a long way in infusing humanistic element in modern education. 

*Read the rest of this story*


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## pk70 (Aug 5, 2008)

aad0002 said:


> *Kaur Power
> 
> *Research on Sri Guru Granth Sahib titled "Philosophy of Guru Granth Sahib and its Educational Implications" by _Lakhbir Kaur Bahra_ has been awarded Ph.D. (Education) by University of Lucknow. This work has been carried out under the guidance of Professor _Moraddhwaj Varma_ of Department of Education of University of Lucknow. This work has pioneered in exploring many new and hidden aspects of the philosophical and educational implications of the eleventh Guru of the Sikh faith i.e. Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Scholars and educationists have opined that this work will prove a landmark and go a long way in infusing humanistic element in modern education.
> 
> *Read the rest of this story*



*aad0002 Ji

it is not loading for some reason even through DSL

Link is fixed (aad0002)
*


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## kds1980 (Aug 6, 2008)

> Primary motive for picking a career is never greed!
> 
> It’s reason (which is a cesspool of directive ideas evoked by a culmination and equilibrium of emotions; fear, anxiety, love, amusement, desire, greed blah blah blah)



Sinsiter I am no magician of english words  I prefer to discuss in simple and straight language No where I said that that primary motive is behind picking Lucrative career is greed .I was just saying that primory factor factor behind picking lucrative career is money.That's what I was discussing earlier


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## Sinister (Aug 6, 2008)

kds1980 said:


> Sinsiter I am no magician of english words I prefer to discuss in simple and straight language No where I said that that primary motive is behind picking Lucrative career is greed .I was just saying that primory factor factor behind picking lucrative career is money.That's what I was discussing earlier


 
Hmmm? Maybe you are a magician afterall? :wink:


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## spnadmin (Aug 8, 2008)

*Kaur Power*

*“Growing up in America, I went to public schools and generally                  I was the only Sikh child in the whole school but through these                  experiences of going to India and listening to the sacred music                  and just feeling the heart and the warmth of the people and learning                  about the Sikh history, I gained a real sense of my identity,”                  she says. *

Read about Snatam Kaur at this lilnk A Prevailing Peace


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## spnadmin (Aug 8, 2008)

*Kaur Power*

* Respected forum member Ek Ong Kaar Kaur Khalsa*

*Eventually, the Shabad Guru came into my life. And this feeling of defining myself by my inner negative feelings versus defining myself by my inner positive Light took on a whole new dimension.*

Read the rest of this story at Sikh Chic


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## spnadmin (Aug 9, 2008)

*Kaur Power*

Punjab born Mandeep Kaur made all Sikhs proud by being pioneer to the role being the first Sikh Chaplain in the British military as well as being the female to be in such a role. 

Read the rest of the story at this link The second ever Sikh 'Chardi Kala' weekend held for British Armed Forces | SikhNet


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## spnadmin (Aug 18, 2008)

*Kaur Power

**Sikh Woman: First Turbaned Pilot In America*
The Sikh Research Institute (*SikhRI*) reported today that _Arpinder Kaur_, 28, of San Antonio, Texas has become the first turbaned pilot hired by a commercial airline in the States. As a Sikhni, she has helped pave the way for both Sikh men and women who wear a dastaar/turban to fulfill their passion for flying. No longer does flying just have to be an extra-curricular activity for these Sikhs, but it can also be an every-day job!


Read the rest of this story at The Langar Hall  Blog Archive  Sikh Woman: First Turbaned Pilot In America


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## spnadmin (Aug 18, 2008)

Arpinder Kaur: Piloting a Life

YouTube - Arpinder Kaur: Piloting a Life by Raj Singh (Age 17)


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## spnadmin (Jan 13, 2009)

*Dream IT, achieve IT! Rural Sikh girl shows the way*


*

Amritsar, Punjab:* “I want to do something significant for my state Punjab after completing my study in UK”. These were the words of Jasvir Kaur, a Sikh Punjabi girl, who left for UK on a scholarship, provided by University of WolverHampton, to pursue her higher studies.

 Belonging to a middle-class family, Jasvir is a role model for students who dare to dream big and then work towards it with unflinching devotion.

 Hailing from a remote village, Kotli Than Singh, near Jalandhar, she completed her basic studies from a government school in her village. She never wanted to stop right there.

 She had a dream, to go to college and pursue a career in IT sector. But she did not know how to achieve it as she was well aware of the fact that her father, with his mediocre earnings, would not be able to afford her studies.

 However, the ray of hope came in form of Prof Harbans Singh Bolina, who spotted her outside the office of principal of Lyallpur Khalsa College, Jalandhar.

 The philanthropist not only sponsored her three-year education but was also offered his valuable guidance to the girl. And indeed Jasvir did not disappoint him.

 She is one of the two students from Punjab who have been selected by the delegates of University of Wolver Hampton, who were here to meet the Chief Minister, who had urged them to provide scholarships to bright students who hail from a weak economic background.

 Jasvir has been picked up for MSc (Computer Science) course and will get a scholarship of Rs 8lakh. Before leaving for UK from Amritsar, she gave all credit of her success to Prof Bolina.

Source of article at this link Sikh girl shows the way | Global Sikh News


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## kiram (Jan 14, 2009)




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## pk70 (Jan 14, 2009)

aad0002 said:


> *Dream IT, achieve IT! Rural Sikh girl shows the way*
> 
> 
> *
> ...



*Amazing stories, determined to rise considers nothing impossible. I applaud their determination and all efforts put in to achieve targeted goal*:happy:


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## spnadmin (Jan 21, 2009)

*Nina Kaur wins Care Innovator Award at Care Unique in UK*

     Source Nina Kaur wins Care Innovator Award at Care Unique in UK

Nina kaur an Amritdhari gursikh has made Khalsa Panth Proud after she has won Care Innovator Award at her prestigious organisation Care Unique. This is one another proud moment after Arpinder Kaur (another Keski wearing & an Amritdhari) become the very first turbaned pilot in USA.


 Nina Kaur’s judges said:”_We are extremely impressed with the simplicity of Nina`s idea to provide a focused home care service to ethnic minority groups._” She was presented this award by Harry Gration, presenter of BBC Look North, and Gordon Smith from Smith Smalley Architects.



 This is very inspiring that if an Amritdhari and keski wearing too women can maintain there rehat in Western country then what is the problem with keeping rehat by Sikhs in India. It is a request to all of you to maintain your rehat and wear 5ks (by becoming amritdhari sikhs of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji).


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## spnadmin (Jan 21, 2009)

* Fighting Female Foeticide*  
Dr. Meeta Singh 

Source WSN-Special Report-Fighting Female Foeticide

_ 72 year old Sardarni Kuldeep Kaur has been                  working tirelessly within the community to stop sex selective                  abortions in Rajasthan. Her                  work is a source of inspiration to all young women.                  As a section of Punjab is celebrating the birth of the girl                  child this Lohri, World Sikh News presents here an interview                  with her by Dr. Meeta Singh, who heads                    International Foundation of Electoral Systems’s Dignity of the                  Girl Child programme in                  Rajasthan, with the hope that many more Kuldeep Kaurs will                  emerge to undo the harm done by the scourge of killing the girl                  child._

 



Meeta Singh: When did you first hear about the issue of female              foeticide? *  
            Kuldeep Kaur:*             Though I have been aware that sex              selection and female foeticide do happen all around us, it was only              at the Rajasthan University Women’s Association (RUWA) Workshop on              26 October 2005 that I really woke up to the issue. The film _             “Kukh Vich Katal”_ [Murder in the Womb] shown at the workshop              left an indelible impact on my mind. The other speakers also              highlighted the problem in a manner that I was quite shaken.

*              MS: Why did this issue resonate with you personally? Why did you              feel a need to get involved?
            KK:             That day the issue took me back in              time to my own childhood. I was a little girl; we lived in Ferozepur,              a small town in               Punjab.              My little sister was just born and a neighbor dropped in and asked              my father whether he would keep the girl or get rid of her. My              father was livid and asked the neighbor to leave and never mention              something like this ever again. He pampered us so much. I remember              that incident to this day. Somehow the workshop was the beginning of              a calling. A voice told me that I must do something. We can’t simply              allow our unborn daughters to die like this.*

* 




MS:              Why is female foeticide so prevalent in the Sikh community?
            KK:             I think Female Foeticide is a problem              with the Sikh community because of land holdings in the Punjab. The              smaller farmers do not want daughters because it means selling off              land to pay dowry; the bigger farmers do not want daughters because              they would rather have sons who will till the land than daughters              who will have to be married off. Also there is the question of              honor, bowing down before the groom’s family is hurtful to the ego.              Then the security of the girls is another problem.*

*              MS: Tell me about the activities you are organizing in support of              the campaign against female foeticide.   
            KK:             I started this campaign with the              women of the Sikh community in Jaipur. I formed ladies’ groups and              called them Samooh Stree Satsang [women’s group of              worshippers] with women who come regularly to the  gurudwara [Sikh place              of worship].  *

*              MS: Where do these activities take place? What is the scope of your              activities so far?   
            KK:             We have 20  gurudwaras in Jaipur so              we formed 20 groups in areas where the  gurudwaras are located.              Every month, we have a meeting in one of the  gurudwaras by rotation.              We sing hymns and religious songs, and we pray but between the hymns              we also discuss the problem of female foeticide. I tell the women to              discuss the issue in their own homes and neighborhoods and get as              many people as possible to sign oath papers saying they will never              indulge in female foeticide themselves, and they will never allow it              to happen. So far we have interacted with 1,780 people, of which 479              are men. We also invite speakers from outside to explain the issue.              We are trying to involve the men with the issue. We are working at              the district level and the state level but we do need to reach out              to the villages as well. We will need much more time for that.*

                 My greatest challenge is to try and change mindsets. To keep                  working until female foeticide comes to an end.The value and                  dignity of the girl child needs to be established. Dowry must                  stop, through laws, public opinion, whatever. Girls must get                  equal opportunities.

*              MS: Can you give me a specific example of how your work has been              received by a particular person, maybe another woman, community              leader or members of a particular community?
            KK:             Many important people who come to the             gurudwara give me a              lot of respect for my work. One person who I would like to              especially mention is Sardar Jasbir Singh, who is the Chairperson of              the Minorities Commission in Rajasthan. He is interested in              sensitizing other minority communities on this issue as well. In Sri              Ganganagar, Timma and Harpreet, who are the youth leaders there,              have also been very enthusiastic in taking up the issue with the              Sikh community.*

*              MS: What is the hardest part about your work?
            KK:             The hardest part…well, mobility is a              problem, and I am not getting any younger. Of course, changing              mindsets is never easy.*

*              MS: Have you received criticism/threats for working on this issue?               
            KK:             No, fortunately my community respects              me a lot and is quite appreciative of my work.*

*              MS: Tell me about something that happened that inspired you to keep              working on this issue.
            KK:             I was invited to attend a national              consultation on female foeticide in Pune. It had been organized by              the Centre for Youth Development and Action and the United Nations              Population Fund. It was a national-level platform, but people there              listened to me carefully when I shared my experiences with them.              They asked me for my suggestions and gave me respect. That              recognition spurred me on to work harder. I was happy that so much              confidence had been reposed in me. I told them that Guru Nanak had              advocated social ostracism for people who kill their daughters.              *

                 My advice to younger women is that they must understand that                  women can change the world. They need to discover their strength                  and power from within themselves and work together to break                  silences.

*              MS: What can people, both internationals and Indians, do to help              you?
 KK:             People at the international level as              well as Indians can do so much. Discuss the issue, hold conferences              and discussions—big and small. Don’t be afraid to talk about it,              condemn female foeticide when it happens, and try and stop it              whenever you can. Also, they can help with vocational training for              girls so that they can be economically independent.*

*              MS: How did the idea of tying female foeticide to a    wedding in              Sri Ganganagar come about?
            KK:             I had gone to Sri Ganganagar to              initiate the Samooh Stree Satsang there and to address a camp              of adolescent girls and sensitize them to the issue of female              foeticide. I also held meetings with the leaders of the Sikh Sangat              [community]. There, I learnt that a community wedding was in the              offing. I suggested that they could dedicate the event to the cause              of saving the girl child. My suggestion received a good response. I              also met with Timma and Harpreet, who I found very enthusiastic.              They were the main organizers and they took it forward from there. I              felt that if the couples would start their lives with a mindset that              condemns female foeticide, it would be helpful.*

* 




MS:              Did you attend the wedding? What do you remember most?   
            KK:             Yes I did attend the wedding. What I              remember most is the collective oath that was administered by the              priests who performed the weddings to the newlywed couples and              nearly a thousand people present. This, I think, is significant              because people listen to the priests and holy men, and the              commitment becomes public so they become accountable in many ways.              When you commit in front of so many people, you can’t go and commit              sex selection and female foeticide so easily. What I also remember              is the way a woman of the Sikh community was honored. This woman had              decided to go against her husband and, at the cost of being              abandoned by him, did not agree to abort her baby girl, her third              daughter. This is a strong example of courage. And I am happy that              the Sikh community decided to honor her.*

*              MS: Are there other weddings like this planned?
            KK:             Yes, we are planning a similar              community wedding in Jaipur. The date has not been decided yet. But              we have spoken with the Gianiji [Sikh priest] regarding              administering the oath against female foeticide, and he has agreed.*

*              MS: Have there been opportunities to work with people from other              communities affected by female foeticide?
            KK:             Yes we have worked with other              communities, especially the Jains. The inter-community cell in RUWA              also brings together leaders from various communities once every few              months. We share our experiences, our problems and try and find              solutions. We also draw inspiration from one another. We all need to              work together if we have to stop female foeticide in this country              and give dignity to our daughters. RUWA is carrying forward what              they started almost two years ago.*

* 




MS:              What do people need to remember most about this issue and your work              in the Sikh community?
            KK:             What people need to remember about me              and my work is that they must STOP sex selection and female              foeticide. They need to remember that girls are to be valued, loved              and cared for and not killed in the womb.  *

*              MS: What is the state of women’s leadership in the NGO community and              broader Indian community?   
            KK:             Women’s leadership is emerging. Girls              are very capable and do so well when they get opportunities. But              more women need to come forward. They need to provide support to              each other.  *

*              MS: What challenges do you face as a grassroots activist?
 KK:             My greatest challenge is to try and              change mindsets. To keep working until female foeticide comes to an              end.*

*              MS: How can we have breakthroughs in the area of female foeticide?
 KK:             The value and dignity of the girl              child needs to be established. Dowry must stop, through laws, public              opinion, whatever. Girls must get equal opportunities. It is sad              when girls are thrown out of their marital homes for not bringing              dowry and subjected to violence. I feel pained [when I hear about              that].*

*              MS: What advice would you offer to younger women?
            KK:             My advice to younger women is that              they must understand that women can change the world. They need to              discover their strength and power from within themselves and work              together to break silences. Even our scriptures say that ‘Why should              we talk ill of her, she who gives birth to kings?’”*


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jan 21, 2009)

*



Yes we have worked with other communities, especially the Jains

Click to expand...

 
This doesn't make sense.  Do the Jains - who won't swat a mosquito - have this evil in their community, as well?*


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## spnadmin (Jan 21, 2009)

Mai ji

First of all, it is so good to hear your voice once again! My interpretation of this remark -- the problem is rampant throughout India even though selective abortion is illegal. Independently of news articles I have read here on the forum, there has been consistent news coverage of the problem of female foetecide for several years running in other news venues. Economic priorities and movement away from traditional social structures seem to trump the traditional ethical values of most cultures. And the problem is not limited to India. There have been surveys here in the US that illustrate that, given the opportunity, a majority of couples expecting their first child would elect to abort a female. This cuts across most ethnic and cultural groups.

It would be an interesting experiment to try to send an email to Sardami Kaur to see how she describes this puzzle.


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## Astroboy (Jan 21, 2009)

*Punjab eves overcome Chandigarh to win hockey title
 *Jalandhar, October 22
 Punjab women scripted a 7-5 victory over Chandigarh to clinch the hockey title in the 29th National Women’s Sports Festival as curtains came down on the four-day long sporting extravaganza at the Olympian Surjit Singh hockey stadium here today evening. *The winning Punjab handball team with Director (Sports)  Kartar Singh on Wednesday.
                —                 Photo by S.S. Chopra*


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## Astroboy (Jan 21, 2009)

YouTube - Youth Kirtan Darbar - Eshvinder Kaur & Manpreet Kaur Part 1


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## spnadmin (Jan 22, 2009)

Mai said:


> *
> 
> This doesn't make sense.  Do the Jains - who won't swat a mosquito - have this evil in their community, as well?*



Mai ji, after thinking once more about your question -- yes, it does not make sense -- I did some Internet research and found this statistic on a Government of India web site.

6.Percentage of spontaneous abortion was higher Muslim (8.6%) in comparison to Hindus (5.5) and Jains (6.3). The percentage of induced abortions was higher in Jains (9.4%) than that of Muslims (2.2%) and Hindus (2.4%). 

So it happens. Why it happens, I don't know. The source of the data is: PRC


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## spnadmin (Jan 22, 2009)

namjap said:


> *Punjab eves overcome Chandigarh to win hockey title
> *Jalandhar, October 22
> Punjab women scripted a 7-5 victory over Chandigarh to clinch the hockey title in the 29th National Women’s Sports Festival as curtains came down on the four-day long sporting extravaganza at the Olympian Surjit Singh hockey stadium here today evening. *The winning Punjab handball team with Director (Sports)  Kartar Singh on Wednesday.
> —                 Photo by S.S. Chopra*



Nam Jap ji

Thanks for getting us back into Chari Kala. Are these young women not enchanting and fresh. How happy they are. And look at the proud faces of the older women. So determined! I think the men in the pic are looking very content with the results, too!


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## spnadmin (Feb 1, 2009)

*A Second Victory for Sikh Doctors*


                               News Source:        www.sikhcoalition.org







January 30, 2009 



(Philadelphia, PA) - The National Board of Medical Examiners (NBME) has agreed not to ask Sikh examinees to remove their turbans for security screenings at test centers. The Sikh Coalition applauds the NBME for understanding and responding to the concerns of the Sikh American community. 



*Medical Student Speaks Out* 
The Coalition first heard about this incident last year, when Kiranpreet Kaur Khurana, a medical student, told us her story. 
In August 2007, Kiranpreet arrived at a testing center in New Jersey for her medical board exam - the United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE). Having signed in, the administrator told Kiranpreet that her turban "had to" be searched. Flustered and surprised by the demand, Kiranpreet followed the administrator into the ladies' restroom, where the administrator asked her to remove her turban and "shake it." When she returned to the testing area after this embarrassing experience, Kiranpreet noticed that no other examinee's clothing or pockets were being checked for any manner of contraband. Kiranpreet was the only examinee who was searched.


*Coalition Takes Action*
The Sikh Coalition reached out to the NBME, the organization that administers the exam, in early 2008. We were told that the USMLE *considers turbans "an unauthorized personal item"* in the exam room and turbans could therefore only be worn into the exam room if they were first searched. The NBME initially refused to change this policy. 



Since then, the Coalition worked to convince the NBME to adopt an objectively neutral search policy. Our goal was to ensure that Sikhs are not singled out for searches when others who could be carrying small contraband in their clothing are not searched. 



After nearly one year of advocacy on this matter, the NBME this month agreed to change its policy. Dr. Gerard Dillon, Vice President of the USMLE, wrote to the Sikh Coalition to say "Our procedure will allow the wearing of head coverings for religious reasons, as declared by the candidate. Test administration staff will be asked to visually inspect the head covering but the examinee will not be asked to remove it." 



The policy change is expected to go into effect by early February 2009. 
"What a great feeling that people are finally starting to understand the importance of the turban for us and how it's a part of us and our daily lives," said Kiranpreet on the day the policy change was announced. "Credit goes to Sikh Coalition for fighting persistently and bringing a much-needed change in the NBME policy." 



In 2008, the Sikh Coalition worked with the North American Sikh Medical Dental Association (NASMDA) to change a similar policy for MCAT examinees. 
The Sikh Coalition urges all Sikhs to practice their faith fearlessly.

 If someone tells you to remove your articles of faith, please report the incident.


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## Tejwant Singh (Feb 1, 2009)

A small step for humanity but a giant step for the Sikh woman/mankind.

Nischei kar aapni jeet karoon. In other words, where there is the Gurmat will, there are always the Gurmat machetes to carve the pathways. 

Isn't this the true essence of being a Sant Sipahi- The Peace Warrior?

Tejwant Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 1, 2009)

namjap said:


> In Thailand, it is the Kaurs who boss around, and the Singhs are their "Yes Men".
> Bring some of the Thai Kaurs and the world will never be the same again, ever.



Yes i have a friend in Titiwangsa whose wife has THAI "connections"...and he is really terrified of her...in Gurdwara he is SHER..at home he is a Mouse. Once we went to the Bank to bank in the weekly Goluck collection... we had already counted the collection about ten times....and so were very sure how much it was...at the bank the counter clerk accidentally placed one bag of coins at his feet and forgot to count it in..thus the total came up short....this SHER jumped over the counter and confronted the clerk....who could hardly breath !!! he was in SHOCK !! DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY TIMES>>HOW MANY OF US>>COUNTED THE COINS ?? He roared..SHORT ?? what SHORT ?? sorry sir  sorry sir he murmured....
Later when we went to his house for some cool drinks....he so softly requested his daughter to ask mummy to bring drinks...FORGET IT..came a ROAR from inside...they are YOUR friends...YOU can make them drinks !! DONT DARE to waken me up again...the SHER in the Bank was a CHOOHA in the house...WAHEGURU !!! THAI CONNECTION ??


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## Archived_Member5 (Feb 2, 2009)

Professional paths were pursued by individuals with natural aptitude in those professions or skills. This women versus men feud, as a battle akin to blacks versus whites, easterners versus westerners is actually repugnant to well balanced family individuals. Punjab and the eastern nations raise strong wholesome ladies able not only to uphold their family honour, take care of their men, assist in running the family business whilst raising a veritable army of children, and bridging good strong bonds of kinship with both in laws and extended family alike. Gaining a doctorate degree or learning to fly a plane if a hobby these ladies is so opportuned can accomplish in between the aforementioned tasks, and all with a happy glowing and radiant smile upon their faces. More beautiful at sixt and eight than most disgruntled girls in thei rteend and twenties.{There is a flying club in the locality where I embarked upon flying lessons, the instrictor considered me a natural.}

Female infanticide is another issue the bleeding hearts take up. Although destroying a potential life is mildly barbaric forcing women to have child following child with an intent to producing a male child is equally wrong. Selective abortion for damaged foetuses or unwanted female embryos is fair if the couple do not wish to raised a large family and have a daughter already. With appropriate clauses the offered choice of selective breeding is welcomed as the prohibitive cost of raising children in this stressful and struggling society makes large families expensive and an arduous toil.

Well balanced fair mindedness triumphs over extreme views to counteract extreme political climates generated by incompetence in governance and over indulgence of each demanding protester at the door of politics and media.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 2, 2009)

Jeetjohal writes: <<<Although destroying a potential life is mildly barbaric forcing women to have child following child with an intent to producing a male child is equally wrong.>>>>>>>>>

Mildly barbaric ??  Imho its more than that..surely ???Forcing birth after birth..to strike the :lottery" of a Male child.....is bad as well as..marrying young and begin having children soon after...destroys the health of the young mother...makes them age faster...weaker...and subsequent children will be even worse off...essentially we destroy our own roots.
Actually the Womans is the woman's worst enemy...its almost always the SASS..the Mother in law who tortures the young bride....as if she wasnt ever in the same position ?? The males go to work..its the sass/nannans/bhabees etc the womenfolk who remain behind that perform mental torture..physical torture..insult..berate..and take the bride to the abortion clinics !!!


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## Archived_Member5 (Feb 2, 2009)

Gyani Ji, with all due respect I was, married at sixteen and am in perfect health. My mother and sister in laws are formidably strong women and leaders of their village and were as my own mother and sisters. I was born in London but have beeen equally loved all my life by both the ebglish and Indians. Each child should be a wanted child. If parents want ardently a boy or girl, and God has provided the technology to enable them to do so then so be it. It is preferable to terminating which is preferable to raising a child in a loveless or unhappy home to send forth into a wicked and dangerously unruly dysfunctional world. Since when have demanding feminists, battling women, since time began, been satisfied. In this age of Kalyug where tilaq is becoming embarrassingly commonplace in the Punjab, we should address the problems of social fragmentation of the family as the essential foundation stone of civilisation than the personal problems of the failed and contentious malcontents. Women have always been strong, as strong and as competent as the parents and communities who raised them. Concentrating focus prmiarily upon a small but vociferoulsy vocal sector of those unable to forge strong relationships with families and brethren does a disservice to the good, godly and honourable ladies, the true unsung heroines who rare lodge complaint in times of trial, spend much time and effort resolving the problems of others less fortunate and capable. Women who whether on foreign shores and different cultures integrate perfectly and adhere to their own religion, marry as their forefathers had wished, such is true integrity. Feminism is for weak immoral women and should never be allowed to enter Sikh philosophy or doctrine, where women are creators of their own home world, be it Eden or hell. ...


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## spnadmin (Feb 2, 2009)

Bibi Dr. Inderjit kaur                                                                                                                                  

 
Too remarkable to say a word. Dr. Inderjit Kaur continues the work of Bhagat Puran Singh. She is the current director of Pingalwara Institute for destitute victims of incurable diseases and mental retardation.

Read about the work of the institute at http:/www.pingalwaraonline.org


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## spnadmin (Feb 27, 2009)

*Amrit Kaur Becomes Head of a Leading Interfaith Body in Washington*
Source: Amrit Kaur Becomes Head of a Leading Interfaith Body in Washington | SikhNet






Washington, February 24, 2008 - A Sikh woman, Ms. Amrit Kaur, became the President of the InterFaith Conference of Metropolitan Washington recently when this body, representing 11 world religions and various judicatories, elected her as the president for a two-year term. 

 Created in 1978, the InterFaith Conference of Metropolitan Washington (IFC) brings together eleven historic faith communities to promote dialogue, understanding and a sense of community among persons of diverse faiths and to work cooperatively for social and economic justice in metropolitan Washington. 

Rev. Dr. Clark Lobenstine, Executive Director of the InterFaith Conference, noted: "This is the first time in the organization's 30 year history that a majority of the five member Executive Committee were from eastern religious traditions. A Hindu, Dr. Siva Subramanian, was elected as First Vice-President. A Buddhist, Dr. Sovan Tun was elected as Secretary. 

 She has been very active at the IFC from the last two decades and has been on the Board of this organization. She said, "I am deeply honored to be serving as 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




President of InterFaith Conference. The principles of IFC are very much similar to what my faith Sikhism stands for. In this global village we are all intertwined with each other and can not survive in ivory towers. The very core principles of my faith teach me to stand for social justice, nurture understanding and build a just and harmonious society. The more we believe in ourselves, our faith, the more likely we are to respect other faiths and build bridges across and find a common platform to work together for the betterment of humanity."

 Amrit Kaur was educated in Delhi and Chandigarh, India. She came to theUSA in 1975 and has retired as a banker. She is from the Sikh faith and has been associated with Guru Gobind Singh Foundation (GGSF), a Sikh house of worship since its inception in 1984. This Sikh organization is based in Rockville, MD and is actively involved in community affairs. She has served in various capacities as President, Executive Director and currently is Secretary of GGSF. She has represented the Sikh faith in InterFaith Conference for about 20 years. She was First Vice-President from 2006-2008. On behalf of GGSF, she led a worldwide effort in 1992 to get Bhagat Puran Singh nominated to the Nobel Peace Prize and had several lawmakers and Academicians from U.S.A, Canada, U.K. and India write supporting letters for this nomination to Nobel prize committee in Norway. She is also active in Sikh Council on Religion and Education (SCORE) and has played role in organizing events at the Capitol Hill and the White House. 




 Dr. Rajwant Singh, the past President of IFC said, "It is truly a great feeling to have a woman represent us to the wider community. It is doubly satisfying to see her being elevated to this high position of this august body representing so many religious jurisdictions. It also reflects well for us a community that we have women active in the world affairs on behalf of our faith and that is a true implementation of the Sikh principle of Sewa. I sincerely hope that other Sikh women would follow suit. It has been pleasure to work with Amrit Kaur closely on a daily basis from last two decades on Sikh issues at Guru Gobind Singh Foundation and on other critical issues facing the American society. She is truly a dedicated individual and she has deep commitment to work for the betterment of the Sikh community."

Rev. Clark Lobenstine, the Executive Director of Inter Faith Conference congratulated her and praised her leading role in IFC activities. He said, "Ms Amrit Kaur is deeply devoted to establishing understanding and creating harmony among faith communities. He further stated, "This was the second time that a Sikh- Amrit Kaur, Secretary of Guru Gobind Singh Foundation, was elected President of Inter Faith Conference of Washington. DC for 2008-2010. Dr. Rajwant Singh was the first Sikh elected as President in 1994-1996.This is also second time when a woman has been elected to this office in the 30 year old history of the InterFaith Conference." 





IFC works through coalition-building, education, training and advocacy, by uniting diverse faith leaders to speak and act together, networking with other groups, publishing community resources and holding public events involving music, award ceremonies and lectures. IFC is committed to protecting religious liberty through its programs. IFC staff and members also are available as speakers and workshop participants to congregations, schools, community groups and others interested in fostering understanding among people of different faiths and traditions. In addition, it has also led a variety of service programs where young people of many faiths come together to clean up the environment, help build houses with needy families and other socially constructive projects, with time for discussion as they learn about each other. 

The Guru Gobind Singh Foundation, representing Sikhs, became a full fledged member of the IFC in 1988.



​


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## tony (Feb 28, 2009)

destroying a potential life mildy barbaric, selective abortions to avoid large families, science giving us the ability to things. none of these are the Guru jis teaching. the first is totally barbaric, the second is just as, and the third science gives us the ability to wipe out the entire human race so what. what happened to the sikhi idea of what will be will be. if you disagree with contraception then abstain. if you want a guarantee of the sex of a child try adopting. and if you think that the taking of a life at whatever stage is ok then seek help. And one other thing Id like to as ask is when did man earn the right to be the ruler and more equal than the female, if my memory serves me correctly there are more men in prisons than females, most wars are started by males wanting more power, and some men just like to excert there greater strength over women to look good to others. Every holy book ever written states all are equal try practising it. To all you Kaurs out there not all men share these chauvanistic views your struggles will pay off if you persist, believe in the guru jis teachings and your dreams will come true. 
Tony
ps id like to see these chauvanist do some of the things that a women has to in there every day life. good luck to you all


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## spnadmin (Mar 1, 2009)

_A gift from respected Nam Jap ji -- An e-book by Bhai Vir Singh_






_*
Sundri*_

_At this link you can download the book as a pdf file and save it to your desktop_:

http://www.sikhs.nl/downloads/Englis...ngh_Sundri.pdf

_also at this link_

http://www.sikhism.us/local_links.ph...p&catid=4&id=7


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## spnadmin (Mar 4, 2009)

* Ranbir Kaur*


Source Famous Sikhs: Ranbir Kaur






Ranbir Kaur was the first Sikh woman to join the US armed forces in 2003. She went on a one-and-a-half-year mission to Afghanistan. She had joined the National Guards at the age of 17. She was born in Nijjran village of Jalandhar district, Punjab, the young fighter reached the US as a seven-year-old after her father Mahan Singh, pursuing the American dream, secured a green card in 1990. She was brought up in an isolated town called Earlimart, in California, her brush with the uniform dates back to 2001 when she was a freshman (Grade IX) in high school at Delano, which was the closest city. In 2003, the daughter of a Sikh grape grower faced the ire of white supremacists, who posted terming her recruitment as a means to seek citizenship. However she was already a US citizen, and the young girl set about proving her detractors wrong through hard training. During the 2005 Katrina hurricane in New Orleans, the devout Sikh was instrumental in the recovery of the Guru Granth Sahib after the New Orleans gurudwara was submerged. United Sikhs, an organisation, had sought her assistance and Ranbir had got everybody moving after she announced that the living Guru of the Sikhs was under water. Amid random shootings, air force rescue experts David Cruz and Tom Bausmas had rescued the scriptures in an operation that lasted 22 hours.


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## tony (Mar 6, 2009)

WJKK WJKF
Many thanks to Antonia ji for the link to the Book on Sundri. To read of the bravery of the Sikhs and especially of the Sikh ladies brought more than a tear to my eye. Anyone who doesnt believe that women should have the right to be treated as equals needs to read this. I have noticed though that after your postings of Amrit Kaur and Ranbir Kaur that the chauvanists have to have failed to come up with any response (maybe theyre a little ashamed of there none Sikhi attitude).
SAT SRI AKAL to all the Kaurs amonst us and to all who believe in equality
Tony


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## kds1980 (Mar 11, 2009)

PARENTS PROUD OF HARLEEN CHOPRA?S ACHIEVEMENT AT AFMC






PARENTS PROUD OF HARLEEN CHOPRA’S ACHIEVEMENT AT AFMC 
Reporter 
Friday, March 06th, 2009 AT 11:03 AM 
Tags: AFMC, K J S Chopra, honour, woman cadet, achievement 

Harleen Chopra with her mother Neelam Chopra and father K J S Chopra after the AFMC passing out parade on Thursday

Photo Gallery>> 


It was a moment of pride for K J S Chopra and his wife Neelam to witness their only child getting honour of becoming the first woman cadet ever to command a passing out parade in the history of the Indian Armed Forces, at the Armed Forces medical College (AFMC) here.

Medical cadet Harleen Chopra, who was commissioned into the Armed Forces Medical Services (AFMS), got this unique honour of commandeering the parade of 103 medical graduates on Thursday. It was on March 13, 2006, when bypassing the tradition of male commissioned officer commanding the passing out parade, commissioned woman officer Wahida Prism Khan was selected as the first woman officer to lead the parade. “There would not be a better day than this,” said Neelam Chopra. 

Hailing from Ludhiyana, Lt Harleen was selected to lead the parade on the basis of her academic excellence, physical fitness and commitment. After a one-and-half month’s tough practice, she did the job confidently. “Earlier, I was a little bit apprehensive, but gained confidence as the parade started. It was a memorable moment,” said Harleen. She mentioned with humility that she was not different from other cadets. Harleen credits her family, instructors, teachers and senior cadets for this opportunity. “Believe in yourself and go on realising your dreams. Nothing is impossible for girls,” she said. 

Lt Harleen, who has no army background in her family, joined AFMC in 2004. An active student throughout her school and college days, Harleen has won various awards and scholarships and always excelled in academics, said her father. She considers both the responsibilities as a doctor and an officer as equally important. She will leave for Delhi on Friday for a year-long internship with the Base Hospital Delhi Cantonment.


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## spnadmin (Mar 24, 2009)

*Young Sikh Afghan Rights Activist Selected As 'Person Of The Year' *

                                                             March 24th, 2009                                by       Omid Marzban                                        Source:       www.rferl.org 






RFE/RL's Radio Free Afghanistan (RFA) has announced that it has selected 25-year-old human rights activist Anarkali Kaur Honaryar as its Person of the Year.

Honaryar works for the country's Independent Human Rights Commission and is a member of Afghanistan's small Sikh community.

She told RFA that she is proud of the honor, which she dedicates "to all those young people who fight for human rights, equality, and civil society."

More than 30 rights groups, NGOs, and journalists' unions helped select this year's winner.

Honaryar has been working to promote democracy, equal rights, and civil society issues in Afghanistan for the last seven years.

She was a member of the Afghan Constitution Committee, which drafted the country's current constitution, and of the Loya Jirga that selected Afghanistan's interim government after the Taliban was ousted.

"As a woman, I have faced so many challenges during this campaign,” she said. But she said she has never thought of giving up, despite Afghanistan's male-dominated culture.

When she was a child, Honaryar admits to once having wished she were a boy, as she dreamed of becoming a pilot. But because she was a girl living in Afghanistan's conservative society, the “dream never came true."

Instead, Honaryar is now a medical doctor.

"Now I believe that a woman is capable of doing anything that a man can do," she says, "only if they are given the opportunities that a man has.”

RFA's inaugural Person of the Year prize went last year to the governor of Nangarhar Province, *Gulagha Sherzai*.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Mar 25, 2009)

aad0002 said:


> _A gift from respected Nam Jap ji -- An e-book by Bhai Vir Singh_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



One of the earliest books of my childhood....read to me by my mum as a nightly "bedtime story"....SUNDREE and Bhai Bijla Singh..my very first.... James Bond !!
all time favourite....introduced me to *Bhai Vir Singh.*...

Second most favourite book....read to me at bedtime by my father...was.....
*Jail Chitheaan* - BY :  *Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh founder of AKJ..*..
The Letters of Bhai Randhir Singh Ji from his prison days...made a lifetime impression on me..and introduced me to more than 20 fantastic books by Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji...among the earliest  proponents of Gurbani Grammar/Gurmat Maartand/Rehit  etc etc...


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## spnadmin (Mar 28, 2009)

*Women's Equality:
Why Aren't We Spearheading The Struggle?by HARINDER SINGH*





                                                                                                 Images below: first from bottom, courtesy - Shunya. Third from bottom, courtesy - Fiona Aboud. Thumbnail, courtesy - Andrew Yoon.





  "_The whole Guru Granth is the voice of a wedded woman or a maiden pining in love of the Beautiful. Her nobleness in Guru Granth is infinite, her freedom is of the highest. Both man and woman as sexes are forgotten in her voice. She becomes the supreme reality and a freed soul. In the freed soul alone is the subordination of one to the other effectively abolished and all disputes hushed_." Prof. Puran Singh  

  Doctrinally, for us Sikhs, questions of woman's capacity and capabilities are a moot issue.  

  The divinity of Guru Nanak was recognized first by the none other than Bebe Nanaki. One of Guru Gobind Singh ji's bravest lieutenants was Mai Bhago. 
  Thus, the woman's role was neither sanctioned nor codified. It didn‘t need to be. Every woman's (for that matter every Sikh's) personal relationship with the Guru and the Creator moved each Sardarni in the spirit of utter volunteerism to do what she did. 

  So, why are we a party to a culture of domination today?  

  I submit: the _raison d'etre_ of a Sikh is to fight every dimension of domination by anyone over another, regardless of whether it is spiritual, political or otherwise. In the past few decades, we've seen a desire to codify women's equality as a global community; however, this ideal is too often couched, albeit earnestly, in terms of a goal sometime in the future. 

  Paragraph 13 of the United Nation's 1995 Beijing Declaration issued at the fourth World Conference on Women stated: "Women's empowerment and their full participation on the basis of equality in all spheres of society, including participation in the decision-making process and access to power, are fundamental for the achievement of equality, development and peace." 

  I see our community still "declaring" women to be equal. It is time to stop the symbolic declarations and begin to assert, through our actions, the equal treatment of women in private and public spaces. 

  Guru Nanak's declaration on women's emancipation came 500 years ago, amidst the clash of Semitic and Aryan traditions, whereas our modern world appears still to be deliberating on it. 

  For the large part, religions, ideologies and other cultural systems have created strong protections for cohesion of society and nurture of its norms. This end is often ensured by way of controls over behaviour - hence, the preoccupation with gender and sexuality in all systems which guide human interaction. 

  Characteristically, societies developed a necessary division of labour, loosely based on perceived biological ability. This solidified and eventually extended symbolically, with women responsible for the upbringing of the family and related activities involving cultivating and cooking. Conversely, men related to the wider environment through their engagement in hunting, warfare and political relations. The subservience of women to men became widespread in all spheres, with rare exceptions. Combined with profound fears about the dangers surrounding sexuality (elaborated in complex ritual customs to deal with ‘purity' and ‘security'), these disparities led to the literal separation of women from men, especially in worship. 

  For me, the height of folly is that Sikhs have fallen victim to the larger hegemony's dictation of how we should think and behave. The results are that we are now debating whether we should allow women to do certain things, be it in our local gurdwara or even within the Darbar Sahib complex. How absurd!  We have no basis in our doctrine for this prejudice, yet our debate on negative energies continues.  

  The Sikh culture, as envisioned in the Guru Granth and created by the Ten Nanaks, insists on complete equality. There is no stratification spectrum of inferior or superior status in any form, be it gender or other social divisions. The foundational doctrine of the Sikh Faith propagates integration, not division, to uplift human dignity. 

  Consequently, the Sikh scriptural canon, the _Guru Granth_, reveals _Waheguru _as The One Universal Integrative Force. The succeeding divine attributes are messages of integration; there is no allusion to division based on gender. 

  In the Sikh vision, the woman is the single thread which drives humanity. Her participation in all dimensions of life must be recognized as the essential elements in human affairs. With the exception of the Divine Order of _Waheguru_, Guru Nanak in _Asa-ki-Var_ proclaims that everything in human existence depends on the Woman; the only exception being _Waheguru_, the non-human factor.  

  We see then that it is not an accident that the perspective adopted for self-realization in _gurbani_ (Sikh scripture) is that of the woman. The feminine vocabulary, symbolism and behaviour are the medium for self-realization, which is the expression of total freedom or Divine realization. 

  Harinder Singh Mehboob articulates the Woman-consciousness in the _Guru Granth a_s follows:  

  "In the Guru Granth Sahib, several dimensions of the woman-consciousness are experienced in the spiritual longing of humans. Guru Nanak - Truth did not incorporate it as a mere illustration or thought, rather it is a significant part of the whole experience. Woman is that form of its genius whose intense movement transforms the complete radiant richness of the Creation's fertile aspects into human morality. In the feelings of coming together and pangs of separation, several representative forms of life converge like a great carnival. 

  "Hence, firstly, the Khalsa must have the complete experience of the woman in accordance with the standards of Divine values; secondly, the Khalsa must be aware of the completeness of the woman in all colours of coming together and pangs of separation: the complete and grave experience intoxicated with pure essence and aesthetical splendour! This experience must have movement, longing, and serene bliss at the same time." 

  I must ask, are we experiencing this wonder, this _vismad_?  

  In the Sikhi lifestyle, _Waheguru_ is enshrined in each and every heart. The same divine light is present in all human beings. Every man and woman is an image of _Waheguru_. The Gurus were far ahead of their time; they brought clarity by highlighting the prevalent jarring social inequalities. Regarding barring women from participating in society based on their purported association with ‘impurity‘, the Guru proclaims, rather, that all doubts in one's mind on this issue is the impurity! 

  In terms of rights and responsibilities of the Sikhs, here is what the revolution of the Sikh Gurus encompassed:  

  Admitting women into the _sangat_ (congregation) without any restrictions or reservations; encouraging the education of all Sikhs, men and women included; condemning the cruel custom of _sati_ (the Hindu custom of self- or coerced- immolation of the widow on the husband‘s funeral pyre); advocating widow remarriage, abolishing _purdah_ (veils); and declaring that "Woman is the Conscience of Man."  

  Furthermore, the Khalsa initiation ceremony, from day, one was open to men and women alike. Also at the same time, a law was made to not associate with those who practiced female infanticide. 

  Today though, some in the community, like many other Indians, are still complicit in female feticide! Open your eyes and hearts to the conspiracy of silence surrounding gendercide. 

  While busy pushing our preferences as laws, we completely disregard the Guru's direct command!  

  As well, we see that, historically, the Guru forbade Sikhs to exercise any proprietary rights over women captured in battle; they could not be kept as slaves or wives but were to be treated with the utmost respect. 

  "In all contemporary records, mostly in Persian, written generally by Muslims as well as by Maratha agents posted at a number of places in Northern India, there is not a single instance either in Delhi or elsewhere in which the Sikhs raised a finger against women," records historian Hari Ram Gupta. 

  The culture can be judged from the position and respect it gives to women.  Today, we are faced with the question, are we part of the Sikh culture or are we more _Punjabi_, _Hindustani_, or _Firangi_? If the answer is we want to be more Sikh-like, the first allegiance needs to be to the Guru Granth - Panth.  

  I saw an excellent, but disturbing, extrapolation of perversion toward South Asian women in the film "_Maatr-bhoomi_." I look at the alarming statistics on woman-to-man ratios in Punjab. I read testimonies of domestic abuse in Vancouver and London. Yes, I know versions of this injustice are prevalent in the whole world, in every community. Why, then, should I make noise about it? 

  Simple. Because even if one woman is treated unfairly, especially by those who claim to be Sikh, it is a crime. Our tradition, in the words of Bhai Gurdas, upholds a very different attitude and we should strive to see it made real: "In world events, literary affairs, virtuous behaviour, and exemplifying wisdom, Woman - half of the population, brings forth freedom." 

  Roles specified for men or women are antithetical to Sikh beliefs and practices.  Sikh culture incorporates those ideas and practices that do not divide the human race for the purpose of defining their rights and responsibilities. Thus, the classification of roles for women and men becomes an absurdity. 

  Yes, there are prescribed tasks that are specific to a Sikh. Everything is prescribed for a Sikh by the wisdom of the Guru, from the _shakhsi_ (personal) to the _panthak_ (collective) living. There are enough historical narrations to substantiate this aspect.  Prof. Puran Singh observes: "Never was eastern or western woman so free when she rose like Sundari, the nurse-sister of the Khalsa in times when the Sikhs were pitched against the Mughal empire; Sundari chose her own vocation, dedicated her whole freed life as the sister-nurse alike of the Khalsa and his foes." 

  That was in the eighteenth century. How are we facilitating the identity formation of Sikh women today? Let us shift our focus away from men's empowerment to the empowerment of all! 

  The Guru dealt with subordination, prohibitions on remarriage, dowry, menstruation-related taboos, superstitions, and other oppressive customs that had become cemented into society and were propagated by immature or under-developed minds. 

  Once more, the Guru's dictum, "Burn away those customs that make me forget the Beloved!" must be applied to everything that is designed to keep women subservient, docile and dependent today. 

  Anything that glorifies male gender preference, encourages female neglect and perpetuates the view of a woman, a wife, a mother, a daughter, as a liability is not aligned with the Sikh vision. 

  It has been shown that every Sikh has the same rights and responsibilities; there are no separate roles for men or women. Over 500 years ago, Guru Nanak launched a struggle for equal rights. Every single Guru articulated and practiced the equality of men and women while working to liberate women who were captives within their own social hierarchies. 

  Sikhi rejects gender inequalities; it stresses the familyhood of the human race.  

  Doctrinally, Sikh women hold an equal status in all affairs, from spiritual to political. It is a shortcoming of the human faculties and a result of the dominance and influence of other cultures that crept into the practitioners of the Sikh faith and began to justify the imposition of an inferior status on the female. 

  These shortcomings are the product of ignorance on the part of the practitioners as well as the nefarious designs of the forces operating actively to undermine the vision of the Gurus. 

  We must instead unite in our true understanding of the Sikh revolution and actively create a world that sides with inclusion and love. 

  I want to challenge all Sikhs, especially those who claim to build _panthak_ institutions, to raise awareness in their communities about women's situation, the discrimination they face everyday, and the work being done to ensure rights and access to opportunities on three fronts: 

  Firstly, we must invest in women's capacity building and skills development to deal with people and institutions.  

  Second, we ought to ensure women's participation in every domain of life, offer them greater control, and allow them to assert decision-making power at home, community and society. 

  Third and finally, we should pledge to work diligently toward transformative action to bring about gender equality between men and women. 

  Rather than wait for the International Women's Day, let us focus NOW on equality as an objective, not on women as a target group. Men and women need to become partners in its pursuit, rather than throw up their hands and decry that prejudice is too deeply entrenched in our world to be changed, or placate historical wrongs with erratic token advancement. The daunting task is to move beyond mere recognition of gender differences, and increase vital attention to reducing gender disparities! 

_Harinder Singh is the co-founder and Executive Director of the Sikh Research Institute (SikhRI) which is headquartered in Texas, U.S.A._]  
_  March 27, 2009  
_*
Source http://www.sikhchic.com/article-detail.php?id=775*


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## Tejwant Singh (Mar 28, 2009)

Women in Sikhi will only have their rightful seat at the table of  equality as prescribed by our Gurus in Guru Granth  when we follow the Guru Granth through Shabad Vichaar and Shabad Vichaar can only exist if caretakers of Sikhi at our Takhats are educated so they can set educational standards for the Raagis, Kathavachaks and all others who are apt to share the  Gurmat nectar.

 Lack of education has created a Taliban mentality of machismo on the top. We can see that inside the Harmander Sahib where no women Raagis are allowed. We do not even see women sevadarnis in there, nor are they part of Panj Pyaras. 

When we  start putting emphasis on Gurmat education and allow women to have a seat at the Takhats and we men who live in diaspora start giving a helping hand in household chores and offer women's participation in the Gurdwaras' committees, then only these small steps can turn into giant leaps.

And then, one day our daughters and their daughters can  be the  flag bearers of the society no matter where one lives but first they should be allowed to carry the Nishaan Sahib of equality of Sikhi.

And that can only happen when they are not aborted in any Sikh household.

 Let us give Sikh women a chance then only peace can have its.

Tejwant Singh


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## Admin (Apr 27, 2009)

Rashpal Kaur performs Indian martial art on April 24, 2009 episode of Dance India Dance...Rashpal Kaur, an Indian Sikh mother, is visually challenged ever since she underwent a brain tumour surgery...in fact she completely lost her eye sight...Keep your dreams alive...Understand...to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication....

YouTube - Rashpal Kaur Performs Indian Martial Art on April 24, 2009 Episode of Dance India Dance

Remember all things are possible for those who believe...We must remember that one determined person can make a significant difference, and that a small group of determined people can change the course of history...Hats off to this young lady...


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## Rani Sandhu (Apr 28, 2009)

I totally agree, women need to step up and have their voice heard....they are as talented, smart and educated as men..........so we need to step up, nobody else is going to take the initiative for us.......we need to walk the path, make the changes and take leadership…..sometimes it is not hard when there is a generational gap or when it is mostly male dominated…but anything is possible…….as long as you have done your research, know your stuff…….you can implement leadership, take roles and get involved in the society……….men need to support us as well….it is sometimes hard to balance work, household, family and community work…..


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## spnadmin (Apr 30, 2009)

The woman in your life
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=arial,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]

[/SIZE][/FONT]
One, who has lived and loved her parents & brothers & sisters, almost as much as you do for 20-25 years of her life; 

One, who has bravely agreed to leave behind all that, her home, people who love her, to adopt your home, your family, your ways and even your family ,name 

One, who is somehow expected to be a master-chef from day #1, while you sleep oblivious to her predicament in her new circumstances, environment and that kitchen 

One, who is expected to make the tea, first thing in the morning and cook food at the end of the day, even if she is as tired as you are, maybe more, and yet never ever expected to complain; to be a servant, a cook, a mother, a wife, even if she doesn't want to; and is learning just like you are as to what you want from her; and is clumsy and sloppy at times and knows that you won't like it if she is too demanding, or if she learns faster than you; 

One, who has her own set of friends, and that includes boys and even men at her workplace too, those, who she knows from school days and yet is willing to put all that on the back-burners to avoid your irrational jealousy, unnecessary competition and your inherent insecurities; 

Yes, she can drink and dance just as well as you can, but won't, simply 
Because you won't like it, even though you say otherwise 

One, who can be late from work once in a while when deadlines, just like yours, are to be met; 

One, who is doing her level best and wants to make this most important, relationship in her entire life a grand success, if you just help her some and trust her; 

One, who just wants one thing from you, as you are the only one she knows in your entire house - your unstinted support, your sensitivities and most importantly - your understanding, or love, if you may call it. 

 
Please appreciate "HER"


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## Admin (May 29, 2009)

An emotional appeal by seven-year-old Sharan Kaur Sethi, a Sikh-American, to U.S. President Barack Obama and the Governor of California for more money for her public school has the latter, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, describing her as a "big part of our future." 



  Sharan Kaur, granddaughter of Sardar Jasbir Singh Sethi, Trustee, The Sikh Foundation, Palo Alto, California, is a Grade I student in a public school in nearby Fremont. 



  Early this month, she sent a handwritten letter to the U.S. President saying her state "has run out of money." 



  "So next year, we will not have a lot of classes that I love, like computer lab, science lab and library. I feel bad because these classes are important for my future. Mr. President, I request you to help our public school by giving them more money. I want to make America proud of me," read the letter. 



  And a couple of days ago, Sharan's parents were pleasantly surprised when they received a letter from the Governor of California that was addressed to their daughter. 
  "Thank you for your fantastic letter about funding for education in this year's budget. One of the best part of being Governor is hearing from the next generation of California's leaders, and from your passion, I can already say you will be a big part of our future," wrote Schwarzenegger. 



  The Governor admitted that the country was facing an economic crisis and even during these challenging times, education remains "one of my top priorities. I have four kids and I understand the important role education plays. Whether you aspire to become a doctor, teacher or even Governor of California, education will help you to be successful in whatever you do," Schwarzenegger's letter to Sharan said. 



  The Governor also informed her that to help "all of our school districts deal with this budget situation, I am giving them flexibility to choose how to use their money, so that they can support classroom instruction and services for students." 



  He further wrote that, rather than having elected officials make the decisions, "we will empower our education officials to make funding decisions which will give you, our young people, the best possible education."


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## spnadmin (May 30, 2009)

*Inspirational Music Video*

Source: Inspirational Bhangra :: SikhNN :: The Next Generation of News and Views





Sikh women prefer Sikh men with kesh and dastaar. That is the message of the latest Punjabi music video by artist, Taranampreet. 

Donned in keskis and armed with guitars, Taranampreet and her group, the Spice Girls of Punjab, sing the song while perched high on an ornate platform. Below is a courtyard filled with Sikh women dressed in white. Their warning to Sikh men: Don’t come around without unshorn hair and turban.






“These days Sikhs are forgetting what our Gurus did for us,” Taranampreet said in Punjabi, by phone from Jalandhar. 

Born in Butala, Taranampreet was a college graduate with two older sisters and three younger brothers when she got her lucky break about seven years ago. She auditioned for music mogul, Inderjit Singh Bains. Both had the same ideas of creating positive music for Sikhi.

With Inderjit Singh as the songwriter and Zakir Husain as the music arranger, Taranampreet released three albums: Heer Saleti, Sahiban Jati and Nagni. Her music videos are produced in Punjab, but have also aired on Indian and Punjabi channels in Canada and the United States. 

Inderjit Singh has launched many bhangra stars such as Jazzy B of Surrey, Madan Maddi of India, Bhinda Jatt of California and Sukhshinder Shinda of England.

“I introduced fresh new artists, made them stars and let them go,” he said by phone from Surrey, Canada. 

But after 20 years in the business, he said he had had enough of artists that only cared about making money. And he had enough of the bhangra industry, which has gone by way of the rap industry, he said. They send negative messages and promote drinking, drugs and fighting.

“(Our) Gurus have done a lot for us,” he said. “It’s our duty to do something for the community.” Sikhs, especially the youth, look at these stars and begin to think that if they don’t wear a dastaar and they don’t keep their kesh, that is okay, he said. He found his calling to make inspiring videos in Taranampreet.

Two of them have inspirational messages and others tackle social ills. ‘Naa Dole Khalsa’ impresses upon Sikhs to honor the sacrifices of the Gurus and martyrs by staying true to Sikhi. ‘Dheeaan’ asks Punjabis to stop killing unborn baby girls. And ‘Jalandar Lahor’ is a love story that shows the destructiveness of honor killings. 

‘Teri Meri Bas’ has received the most views, 2,818, and the most comments, 31. In one of the many approving posts, ‘sangajaspreet’ commented in Punjabi, “…looks like boys will have to live alone if they don’t have beard and kesh.” But in some other posts viewers had concerns, suggestions and criticism. 

‘Pinkpeppypepper’ asked the artist to “please also write Kaur or Singh with your name.” ‘Meer86singh’ said the biggest mistake in the video was that ordinary Sikh girls might think this message is only for those who have taken Amrit or wear keski. And ‘Junta450’ said, “Sikhi has been lost to Sikhs, in the struggle for numbers - of dollars and converts.”

Making music videos has become a struggle for Inderjit Singh. He is spending his own money and making little in return. The ‘Teri Meri Bas’ video cost Rs. 4 lakhs. 

Inspirational songs should be distributed free, he said. But he also needs money to continue his work. It is difficult to make money in this “dying” industry where music and videos are regularly pirated and distributed without royalty to its artists or producers.

This only added to his frustration with the industry. So, seven years ago he gave it up as a full-time occupation and bought a telephone company with a partner. Music became his hobby. His greatest hope now is that Sikhs take a greater interest in the message of the music instead of the flaws of the artist.

“Artist is artist,” he said. “She is doing something effective.” 



Note: _By Anju Kaur
Sikh News Network staff journalist
anjukaur@sikhnn.com 
© Copyrigt 2001-2009 Sikh News Network, LLC 
_
Most read story in Multimedia:
The Widow Colony - India's Unsettled Settlement​


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## spnadmin (May 30, 2009)

*The video*

YouTube - Teri Meri Bas'SAT SIRI AKAL' By TARANAMPREET


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (May 30, 2009)

Mai said:


> We Sikhs love to brag that our religion sees women and men as equals.
> 
> All well and good, Sikhi teaches this.
> 
> ...



When I was in INDIA recently...and took Public Transport...I FOUND out that this is the ONLY WAY..you can get the Public Bus to STOP !!.... WAIT by the ROADSIDE..patiently...and you will grow a BEARD by the time one stops !!!
Public Bus Drivers in India / PUNJAB..just dotn bother about waiting passengers..who cares...BUT one BLOCKING their way..gets attention ( and soemetimes NOT..and thats when we hear..Bus ne swarrean darrerr ditteahn..Bus ploughs/mows down passengers !)::::::::::


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## spnadmin (Jul 6, 2009)

*40 Sikh women raise money for Cancer Research*

 								                            June 30th, 2009

Source at this link: 40 Sikh women raise money for Cancer Research | SikhNet





*40 Kauragious Sikh women raised over ₤4,000 for Cancer Research as part of the Race for Life project at Cannon Hill Park*
 Each Sikh woman ran five kilometers to encourage her sponsors to part with monies that will be used to develop treatments for cancer sufferers.
 The ladies and young girls gathered at the Nishkam Civic Centre in Birmingham, which is part of the Gurdwara Guru Nanak Sewak Jatha (GGNSJ)


 An event was organised to present a cheque to the Chief Executive of Cancer Research, Harpal Singh Kumar, sadly he was unable to attend. The cheque presentation ceremony was therefore made to the Lord Mayor of Birmingham, Councillor Michael Wilkes


 Sewa Singh Mandla introduced the key speakers and informed the audience of the purpose of the event “The acknowledge the efforts of forty of our young women” 



 Bhai Sahib, Mohinder Singh, Chairman of GGNSJ praised the efforts of the ladies, who had expressed one of the key virtues of Sikhism, Sewa (Selfless work)


 “Anything to reduce suffering is welcomed” Bhai Sahib went on to say “Compassion, this is something we can do in prayer, as prayer influences things we do”


 “Mental health is very important, values of ethics, truthfulness, love, faith and secularity are all closely linked”


 “We are a large family of One God, work together to help one another, that is why we decided to add ₤1001 to the money raised by the young ladies”


 A cheque for ₤5001 was presented to the Lord Mayor, who was overwhelmed with the work of these Sikh women.


 Lord Mayor said “There is a tremendous spirit here, the Kirtan preformed earlier by the two Sikh boys was laidend with spirituality, and I am so pleased that my next visit in July will be longer”


 The vote of thanks were given by Prof Ukar Singh Pardesi.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jul 6, 2009)

WOW!!  How wonderful to see all these beautiful Kaurs banded together to do this sewa.  And amazing that they could all actually run 5 km.

KAURS ROCK BIGTIME!!:happy:


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## KulwantK (Jul 8, 2009)

Education is Key! For Everyone!  Everywhere!  Thank you all so much for sharing this- it is inspirational!  Wahe Guru!


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jul 20, 2009)

Thanks much.  I have signed and will post to IHRO and to my blog, The Road To Khalistan, as well.

Chardi kala!  :ice:

Mai


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## Mamak (Jul 20, 2009)

Mai ji Sat Sri Akal,

I agree that when it comes to equality of the sexes, we men do tend to be hypocrites. We might say that we all are ‘Equal’ but then we tend to be more ‘Equal’ than ‘Equal’. The problem is not the mindset of the Singh’s but the mindset of men as a whole, especially in India. Therefore my suggestions will be that if the Kaur’s want the Singh’s to change their view point, then they will have to change it themselves. And this can be done through education, getting good jobs and making your own space in the society.


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## Tejwant Singh (Jul 20, 2009)

Mamak said:


> Mai ji Sat Sri Akal,
> 
> I agree that when it comes to equality of the sexes, we men do tend to be hypocrites. We might say that we all are ‘Equal’ but then we tend to be more ‘Equal’ than ‘Equal’. The problem is not the mindset of the Singh’s but the mindset of men as a whole, especially in India. Therefore my suggestions will be that if the Kaur’s want the Singh’s to change their view point, then they will have to change it themselves. And this can be done through education, getting good jobs and making your own space in the society.




Mamak ji,

Guru Fateh.

So, in other words, your message to all the ladies is to hold us, the  chauvinistic, macho pigs by our tails.


Tejwant Singh


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jul 20, 2009)

Mamak ji says:



> I agree that when it comes to equality of the sexes, we men do tend to be hypocrites. We might say that we all are ‘Equal’ but then we tend to be more ‘Equal’ than ‘Equal’. The problem is not the mindset of the Singh’s but the mindset of men as a whole, especially in India. Therefore my suggestions will be that if the Kaur’s want the Singh’s to change their view point, then they will have to change it themselves. And this can be done through education, getting good jobs and making your own space in the society


 
Nearly 2.5 years ago, I posted this comment on a picture of a Khalsa princess with tape over her mouth. Painting by simmal tree, named Daughter(s) of the Khalsa. 








> If we Kaurs are to find our own voice, we need to rip the tape off of our own and each other's mouths. Guruji has given us the right, the power, the strength and, I believe, the obligation to do this.
> If we wait for the Singhs to do this for us,
> We Singhnis are going to be waiting_ a long, long time._


 

My opinion has not changed.

The Punjabi culture is strongly patriarchal. This is unlikely to change. Sikhi, however, while born in Punjab, calls upon us to rise above that culture, leaving behind its inequities. That we have neglected to do so is our bad and it needs to be corrected.

A ruling elite can rarely be convinced to give up their privleged position and unearned power. I do pray that our dear Singhs' love of our beloved Guru ji/s will compell them to gracefully reach down and take our hands and raise us up to our rightful, equal position. 

However, being occasionally realistic, I don't expect that to happen, so we Kaurs need to take matters into our own hands. As SGGS teaches, and as we recite each morning (y'all do nitnem, right?), you Singhs need us. We do have power; we need to throw off our reticence and learn how to use it. Lysistrada comes to mind. Hardly enlightened and politicall correct, but it works.

Tejwant Singh ji, you say to Mamak:



> So, in other words, your message to all the ladies is to hold us, the chauvinistic, macho pigs by our tails.


 
Many years since I have heard the MCP name. But I have occasionally been called a female chauvinist sow. While there other differences, one huge difference between me and almost all feminists is that I have a sense of humour. I really do love you Singhs. Perhaps someday, when we Singhnis achieve full equality, I will publish a really lovely tribute that I wrote some time ago, thinking of my late husband, shaheed Mani Singh, entitled, _In Praise of the Khalsa Man. :happy:_

Chardi kala! :ice:

Mai


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## spnadmin (Jul 22, 2009)

I want to point out (shearwater ji please pay attention) that repeated posting of passages from the Bible in sections that are about Sikhism will be considered spam. Please limit these postings to Interfaith Dialogs and make sure they are relevant to a thread topic, or they weill be considered proselytizing as well. You are warned. If you continue, you will be put under moderation. Thank you, Narayanjot Kaur


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## kds1980 (Jul 22, 2009)

Mamak said:


> Mai ji Sat Sri Akal,
> 
> I agree that when it comes to equality of the sexes, we men do tend to be hypocrites. We might say that we all are ‘Equal’ but then we tend to be more ‘Equal’ than ‘Equal’. The problem is not the mindset of the Singh’s but the mindset of men as a whole, especially in India. Therefore my suggestions will be that if the Kaur’s want the Singh’s to change their view point, then they will have to change it themselves. And this can be done through education, getting good jobs and making your own space in the society.



There is hypocracy in women too.These days many sikh girls marry non sikhs
and  indirectly/directly convert to their religion and raise non sikh children.If these sikh women beleive  that they are equal then why don't they ask their non sikh Bfs/ lovers that they will raise their children as sikhs.Well they know that their non sikh Bfs will dump them if they ask this before marriage
so in order to get marry their non sikh Bfs they just give up their religion and show their submissive attituide


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## spnadmin (Jul 22, 2009)

*This thread, Kaur Power, is here to celebrate Sikh women and their accomplishments. So GO SWAN!

**Malaysia's SWAN - 
Sikh Women's Awareness Networkby DYA SINGH*

 [Editor: _The author, Dya Singh, is no ordinary soul. A musician who was born and brought up in Malaysia, he now lives in Melbourne, Australia. He travels the world with his band, which includes a crew of wonderful instrumentalists and his three talented daughters, singing Sikh spiritual songs and playing Sikh and world music for both Sikh and non-Sikh audiences. For no small reason, he is proclaimed the world over as the natural heir to Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, the late doyen of world music.__  Recently, in May 2009, he undertook his annual march across Malaysia, a routine that has become a regular event to support one community cause or the other. This year, he was accompanied by the famous musician, Vikram Singh (formerly Vic Briggs, lead guitarist of the 60's pop group, the "Animals'") and a number of others; they walked over 170 km. from Kuala Lumpur to Melaka (in Malaysia) to coincide with a local festival (the annual fair marking the anniversary of Baba Sohan Singh ji). The walk, dubbed the "Unity Walk" , is geared to raising greater awareness of the necessity of physical exercise and the outdoors for all.

 This year's walk also intended to draw a spotlight on the work of SWAN - Malaysia's Sikh Women's Awareness Network - which also co-sponsored this year's walk and helped organize it throughout.]  

 _  The swan is one of the most beautiful, graceful and elegant of birds. Therefore, the word makes such a lovely acronym for a Sikh women's organization, run by women, to look after the needs of women! 

  Though Sikhism preaches complete equality for women alongside men, its members have fallen under the influence of the patriarchal majority communities they find themselves in and often fail in this in actual practice. 

If men do cater for any needs of women, it is normally as a fringe issue. This is not anyone's fault, because no formal Sikh mainstream organizations seem to be set up with women's needs as the focus specifically. 

  So, quite rightly, women have to take up that challenge themselves - "women's business" - for women, about women, by women. 

   In Malaysia, that need appears to have been ably fulfilled by SWAN.  

_The Sikh Women's Awareness Network ("SWAN")_ has become a shining example and a role model, I believe, for women around the globe - to look after their special needs, to act as a pressure group for lobbying purposes and especially as a support group for the welfare and advancement of women. 

   The organization came into being in 2000 as an idea borne out of the "Akal Purakh Ki Fauj" organization (APKF) which has now become an international organization spearheaded by Bhai Autar Singh Ji of Malaysia, a former "jathedar" of the Sikh Naujawan Sabha Malaysia and also a prime architect of the premier, and the first, of internet Sikh discussion groups, "Gurmat Learning Zone". 

  As APKF's leadership in Malaysia was predominantly female, it proved to be the perfect lynchpin for SWAN as an organization to reach out to more women. 

  Furthermore, for the Malaysian chapter, to harness assistance and support from government agencies, especially the Ministry for Women, Family and Community Development, it was found that women could not depend on any other Sikh organisation, but needed to form an organization of their own. 

  Under the guidance of S. Autar Singh and the capable leadership of his wife, Rajinder Kaur, alongside some prominent Sikh women in Kuala Lumpur such as Professor Kuldip Kaur, Associate Professor Kiranjit Kaur and Dr. Manjit Kaur (current President), SWAN came into existence ... 

"... to help improve the quality of life of Malaysian Sikh women and their families - to empower women to build happy and dynamic families ready to face the challenges of globalisation through harmonious and holistic developmental programmes". _[President's report from SWAN newsletter: Issue 1 - January 2006.]_

  Ms. Sharizat (the Federal Minister for Women, Family and Community Development) encouraged SWAN to get registered as a Society to get direct funding for its activities. Membership spread quickly throughout the peninsula, including far-away Sarawak on the island of Borneo (also part of Malaysia), as projects like immunisation programs, exclusive health checks for women, self-improvement programmes, courses on how to manage finances, sewing, gourmet cooking and other such activities began. 

  A quick glimpse through their annual reports and newsletters shows a flurry of activities being conducted exclusively for women and children. Besides the projects mentioned earlier, there are classes, workshops, seminars and forums on a wide spectrum of activities like: health and legal awareness; health screening (pap smear) camps and other women's health awareness camps by specialists; life enrichment camps; workshops on single mothers - _"Standing Tall",_ for example; floral arrangement courses; web design and computer literacy programmes; how to set up a small business; career talks; pre-marriage counselling courses; public speaking courses; healthy eating habits and good diet; skincare; self-empowerment courses; breast cancer awareness campaigns; menopause counselling and medical knowledge to deal with it; even Sukhmani Sahib prayers for Tsunami victims and special Vaisakhi celebration programmes! 

  Various local self-improvement experts, like Mrs. Jagjit Singh and former national footballer and now football commentator Shebby Singh, work tirelessly to hold nationwide classes on women's self-improvement and empowerment, child-raising, motivational, study skills, medical and health issues, etc. 

   I had the honour of interacting with some of the current committee members who were actively involved with our "walk" from Kuala Lumpur to Melaka (about 170km) recently (May 2009), which SWAN helped to manage and publicize - a job I must say, which was handled with precision and professionalism. 

  It was this professionalism that piqued my interest in SWAN, yet a fledgling organization, but one which seemed to be doing a tremendous amount of good amongst Sikh women here. 

  Prominent amongst these dynamic ladies are Dr. Manjit Kaur (the current president), Bibi Harbans Kaur, (the logistics "workhorse",) immediate past president Rajinder Kaur and one I affectionately call "the mouthpiece" - Gina (Gurmeet Kaur), who is a very popular radio DJ in the Malay language, doing a popular programme on Bollywood music and stars. 

  She reputedly has a "following" of 3.2 million listeners predominantly of Malay origin! I listened to her on radio one evening and was bowled over at her command of the Malay language and the occasional Punjabi, English and Hindi thrown in, and the warmth and response of her listeners on talk-back. 
  Below are some interesting views gleaned from them in conversation. 

*  Q. How do you manage such a vast spectrum of activities? 

*  There is a great deal of hard work involved but we do have great support from not only other Sikh organizations, but also other women's organizations and government and NGO's, especially gurdwaras, to carry out our activities. 

*  Q. How do Sikh men generally react/respond to the various activities that you conduct? 

   After much laughter and statements of - "we cannot answer that on the grounds that we might incriminate ourselves"- I was able to get this out of them: 

*  "In general, we have wide support from men, but there will always be the "knockers", which we believe is good because they keep us on our toes and sometimes their negative views give us something to think about, and positives can always come out of their negativities. Our own menfolk give us tremendous support for us to continue with this work of supporting and elevating our womenfolk. Single mothers, especially divorced mothers and mothers with incapacitated husbands, sometimes get a rough ride within the community, but SWAN has made headway in helping them along, and raising their self-esteem because they now have an organization to which they can belong without prejudice and though there is great transparency about our activities and especially the accounts, we do have complete confidentiality for individual welfare cases." 

   (_Members would not comment on what they meant by "rough ride", but I believe that stems from the fact that our gurdwaras and gurdwara committees are not well equipped to help welfare cases "in confidence". Any welfare help that is extended becomes public knowledge, to the embarrassment of the recipients. There are also cases of whole Sikh families, let alone individuals, converting to Christianity just because Christian organizations came to their aid, with no aid forthcoming from Sikh organizations. There are a few other Sikh "welfare'"organizations one hears of but as to how effective they are, is hard to gauge. In some cases, one only hears about them when they hold lavish "dinners'"as a means to collect money for their charity work!_) 

*  Q. What kind of interaction, or reaction, do you get from other Sikh organizations? 

*  In general, we have good support from our Malaysian Gurdwara Council, and the Sikh Naujawan Sabha. The Akal Purakh Ki Fauj is one organization which is always there to give a hand, because it is predominantly run by womenfolk and is about raising our children the Sikhi way and into the 21st century. 

  But there are times when issues which we feel are important are not considered important enough by other Sikh organizations. For example, the issue of pre-marriage counselling. This project was launched as "Smartstart" by the Ministry of Women, Family and Community Development, Malaysia. Two SWAN committee members were involved in the development of this module. We were taken aback when other national Sikh organizations - the Malaysian Gurdwara Council, for example - generally felt that the few minutes of impromptu _sikhya_ (advice) given by the granthi just before the Lavan, was adequate advice and education for a newlywed couple! Therefore, we have to fight to ensure that issues like these are implemented throughout the country, notwithstanding what other Sikh organizations may or may not think. 

   SWAN is a far cry from the traditional _"issteri satsang" _concept that we know of traditionally. This is an organization which looks not only after the spiritual and social needs of Sikh women but also their economic, intellectual and physical wellbeing - their self-esteem, freedom from physical and psychological abuse and insistence on sharing of household responsibilities by their menfolk. 

  This is what Bibi Harbans Kaur, the vice-President, had to say: 

   "SWAN's executive committee comprises of volunteers. They are diligent and committed to creating awareness and give their time to charity work to help empower other women so that they can make a difference. The organization believes that they can undertake any activity, as women play many roles in society and recognizes that women are the pillars of society, hence, their wide and varied programmes and activities not only catering for the healthy development of women, but also to enrich their families and in the process, the entire community." 

  The organization has "cut its teeth", so to speak, at the community level, and now have ambitious plans to work with the mainstream of Malaysian society and network with individuals and organizations to eradicate factors that contribute to poverty and gender, ethnic and religious inequality. 
  It appears that Malaysia has a very strong network of women's organizations to attend to women's issues within the country and SWAN has fitted into this network with some impact, for progress of Sikh women, in fact, all women, in Malaysia. 

   All I can say is that SWAN is giving Malaysian Sikhs and male dominated Sikh organizations a run for their money and making it possible for women, to fall in line with Nanak's view of _"So keo mendha aakhiyai jit jamay raajan". _(Why consider those less, who give birth to kings?) 

  What next? Bungy-jumping? Para-gliding? 

   Why not!  
  Go, SWAN!



















*SOURCEhttp://www.sikhchic.com/current_events/article-list.php?id=26 http://www.sikhchic.com/current_events/malaysias_swan_sikh_womens_awareness_network
*


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## spnadmin (Jul 28, 2009)

*I am in race to become governor: Indian American woman 
*

                      July 28th, 2009             SindhToday 








                Toronto, July 28 (IANS) Yet another Indian American, this time a woman born to Sikh parents from Amritsar, is in the race to become governor of a US state. 

Nikki Randhawa Haley, 37, who is in the fray for the post of governor of South Carolina in the US, says she is in the race to win. If she gets elected, Nikki will be the first Indian American woman to become governor in the US, and the second Indian after Bobby Jindal
	
 of Louisiana state.  

 A member of the South Carolina state assembly since 2004, Nikki is one of the three candidates to seek nomination from her Republican party for the 2010 elections. 

 “I don’t do anything halfway — I’m in this race to win,” Haley told IANS in an interview. “I am confident that come November 2010, the people of South Carolina will send me to the Governor’s Mansion.” 

 And she was quick to add: “When they (voters) do, I will immediately get to work to give them progress that makes them proud.”   

 Born to Sikh parents from Amritsar, Nikki said she is now in the midst of raising money for her campaign to succeed.    

 “As we travel across the state meeting with folks and spreading the message of bringing good government back to South Carolina, folks have been incredibly responsive. 

 “This is going to be an expensive race, and we need all the support we can get, but I have every confidence we will raise every dollar we need to win,” she said. 

 Her message is resonating with the people of her state as she campaigns on a three-point agenda: reining in out-of-control spending, making government more accountable and tackling high unemployment rate
	
 by taking care of South Carolina businesses.    

 Though she joined the race for nomination much after the other two aspirants, Nikki has already raised over $200,000.    

 “In a little less than six weeks we were able to raise over $211,000 — a solid showing in about half a financial quarter,” said the mother of two children.    

 Asked whether her Indian background will matter in the race, she said: “What matters most in South Carolina — and I imagine elsewhere in the country — is not the personalities of the candidates but the message they carry. 

 “Our message of bringing good government back to the people of this state, creating jobs by reforming our tax code so it’s flatter and fairer, and reminding government of the value of a dollar resonates with all the people of this state.” 

 Reminded of her maiden campaign in 2004 when her opponents had raised the issue of her ethnic background, she said: “I imagine my opponents will throw everything they can and more at me over the course of the campaign. 

 “That said, those opponents will not be the focus of our campaign — we will keep our focus on reforming the backward way South Carolina’s government operates and bringing good government back to the people.” 

 Nikki added: “I am very proud of my background and how I was raised. Just as in 2004 I will hold my head high and focus on what I can do for the people of this state.”


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## Admin (Aug 8, 2009)

If you are determined to achieve something, there can be no obstacle. This has been proved by Harmanpreet Kaur Chahal, a blind athlete, who has won one gold medal and one bronze medal in athletics in the World Youth and Student Championship held recently at Colarado, USA. 

The 14-year-old athlete, who competes in the under-B III category of blind athletes, won the gold medal in shot put and bronze medal in 100 m race in the championship. “It was a learning experience for me to play in a country like USA and I was very much confident of my success in the championship. I am very thankful to the national federation of Blind, which sponsored my trip to USA,” said an elated Chahal. 

Harmanpreet started practicing athletics in the 2006 and since then there was no looking back for her. “I started taking part in 100 m and 200 m races along with long jump. But later I shifted to shot put. It has been a unique experience for me to compete in the events,” said Chahal. The young athlete, who is a student of Jarjas Public School, Machiwara, trains under the guidance of Randhir Singh. Chahal’s father Gurpreet Singh, who is a class IV employee in PUDA, was also an international blind athlete. “I have represented India in cricket for blind players and I have always encouraged Harmanpreet to play,” says Singh. 

For her achievement, Avtar Singh Makkar, president of Shiromani Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee announced an award of Rs 51,000.


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## danielle k (Aug 10, 2009)

I think the important thing is keeping one's heart pure. Women always get loaded with the burden of keeping a culture together, since they are the people who have the babies, in addition to keeping the house, working etc. 

If a culture (religious, or national, or both) is going to survive it needs to meet the needs of its members. THat is not to say that it needs to utterly change itself to "fit with fashion" but rather that we must be flexible enough to realise the shifts in the balance, and stop *just* putting responsibility on Kaurs to maintain the Sikh community by not marrying outside: surely they should *want* to marry inside...if they don't...then why don't they?

And if they were truly equal in all matters of religion within the Khalsa, as they should be, then surely they would be more effective in teaching any children they had even if they are married to non-Sikhs...and perhaps even be more inclined to do so?


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## spnadmin (Oct 5, 2009)

*The Strength and Beauty of Women in the Sikh faith and in the the Global Community*

 												                            October 5th, 2009                     	 	  by 	  Daljit Singh	 	                           

         Recently, I was honoured to receive a request to make a contribution to  Jaikara Media magazine from its editor, Harminder Kaur Bhogal. Jaikar Media magazine is a strong voice for Sikh women. It was coincidental that at the time she contected me, I was just editing the chapter on _'Women in the Sikh faith'_ for a yet unpublished book on _"The Sikhs of Today."_

There has been much of coverage in magazines and on Sikhnet along with the popular "Sikh Times" recently about women and the strengths and some of the challenges they have to currently face in life. There are so many attributes of women upon which I can focus but the recent press coverage of the US Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton, during her visit to Asia caught my attention. 

In this article I will excerpt some of the contents of these articles and it would be a great pleasure when she next visits the UK to interview her on behalf of the Sikh Times on her perspective on women. Her speech on that subject was entitled: Invest in women and beat the downturn.

On her trip to China, she met women activists who told her about their efforts to advance conditions for women in their country. The woman faced major challenges such as employment, discrimination, inadequate health care, domestic violence and antiquated laws that hindered women's progress. "Time and tide waits for no man" and whether the situation has changed since her last visit will depend on society and their attitudes towards women. I

It is spokeswomen like Gurjeet Kaur, Editor of the Sikh Times, Harminder Kaur Bhogal and many others who stand up for women everywhere and strive to articulate their concerns and their rights in society.

Hilary Clinton had this to say: 
"The problems we face today are too big and too complex to be solved without the full participation of women. Strengthening women's rights is not only a continuing moral obligation - it is also a necessity as we face a global economic crisis, the spread of terrorism and nuclear weapons, regional conflicts that threaten families and communities, and climate change along with the dangers it presents to the world's health and security. These challenges demand everything we've got. We will not solve them through half measures. And yet too often, on these issues and many more, half the world is left behind."​  It is inspirational to hear this from a stateswoman. She continued:
"Today, more women are leading governments, businesses, and non-governmental organisations than in previous generations. But that good news has a flip side of the coin. Women still comprise the majority of the world's poor, unfed and unschooled. They are still subjected to rape as a tactic of war and exploited by traffickers globally in a billion-dollar criminal business." ​  Indeed the picture looks grim when one reads about the seamy side of how women are exploited. In some societies the birth of a woman is neither accepted nor acknowledged. Baby girls are smothered at birth, thrown in the Yellow River to drown in China, and expectant mothers in India terminate their pregnancy upon discovering the female gender of their baby.
"Despite progress made by women in society; honour killings, maiming, female genital mutilation, and other violent and degrading practices that target women are still tolerated in too many places today. Just a few months ago something tragic happened in Afghanistan: a young girl in Afghanistan was on her way to school when a group of men threw acid in her face, permanently damaging her eyes, because they objected to her seeking an education. Their attempt to terrorise the girl and her family failed. She said, "My parents told me to keep coming to school even if I am killed."​ It is unthinkable and unimaginable to me that this could happen in current modern society but it goes on covertly!

That young girl's courage and resolve should serve as an inspiration to all of us - women and men - to continue to work as hard as we can to ensure that girls and women are accorded the rights and opportunities they deserve.

At times of major global financial crisis, Hilary Clinton maintained that: 
"We must remember what a growing body of research tells us: Supporting women is a high-yield investment, resulting in stronger economies, more vibrant civil societies, healthier communities and greater peace and stability. And investing in women is a way to support future generations. Women spend much more of their incomes on food, medicine and schooling for children." ​  I totally endorse this perspective and it must become a global priority.

She continued:
"Women need to be given the chance to work for fair wages, access credit and launch businesses. They deserve equity in the political sphere, with equal access at the voting booth and the freedom to petition their government as well as run for office. They have a right to health care for themselves and their families, and a right to send their children to school - both their sons and their daughters; and they have a vital role to play in establishing peace and stability worldwide. In regions torn apart by war, it is often the women who find a way to reach across differences and discover common ground." ​  In the context of the Sikh faith, equality has been advocated for the past 550 years and Guru Nanak Dev Ji, the founder of the faith, advocated equality and tolerance amongst the community. In the Siri Guru Granth Sahib we hear over and over that women play a major role in the community and the recognition of their equality.

I value women's contributions and I was absolutely spellbound a by a video I saw on SikhNet called _*"Kaurs in Crowns."*_ The video was taken at the Sikh Student Camp in 2008 in the UK. I religiously attend these camps to observe and report the positive experience of our Sikh faith. This was one of these wonderful camps. The video on Sikhnet impressed me deeply. The title screen speaks for itself: _*"So why call her bad?"*_
​ 
The shabd by Guru Nanak Dev Ji which is used as the music for the video sums everything up beautifully and the message is nice and clear for others to absorb and treat women with respect, magnanimity and great admiration. 

In addition to some of the relevant points raised above by Hilary Clinton, the Secretary of State for the USA, it shows that women's role in society is crucial and is a lynch pin of any truly successful and productive society.
_We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, 
We are engaged and married to a woman._
_We make friends with a woman and life continues because of woman._
_When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman._
_We grow up stronger and wiser having drunk milk from the breast of woman._
_Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to Kings?_
_Everyone is born from a woman; there is none without her._
_Only the One True Lord is without a woman._
(Guru Nanak, Asa Di Var, Ang 473) ​In the video, all the women, some of whom were wearing their keski or turban for the very first time, look elegant and royal; and behind those beautiful smiles lie hidden the talents, strengths, creativity and in fact, the very foundation that society requires to build a healthier and strong world to take it forward for peace and stability. 



​ At the moment, the world is torn apart by strife, political wrangling and misery resulting from war imposed by nations on other nations because of materialism, greed and ego-driven motives of individuals or groups of individuals. 

These multiple problems we face today are too colossal and complex to be solved without the full participation of women.

Source for this story at this link
The Strength and Beauty of Women in the Sikh faith and in the the Global Community | SikhNet


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Oct 6, 2009)

And,of course, I had to go watch the video.  We really are a great-looking bunch, especially  when we look like who we really are.

It's true that tying a turban doesn't make anyone a good Sikh, but I think it probably makes most of us a better Sikh than we would be without one.  (I was going to list KP- Gill as the exception - but I won't.  Might he have been even more brutal if he didn't tie a one?  Who can know?)

I know that I have never seen a Sikh - Singh or Kaur -  who looks stronger, more majestic, more royal without a Turban than with one.  All of us seem to stand a little taller turbaned than not.

As to the rest of this article, it seems incredible to me that there is or ever was this stupid prejudice and discrimination against us women.  Unbelievable.  

:ice:


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## Astroboy (Oct 6, 2009)

*A Sikh Woman Warrior Tells Her Tale*

? A Sikh Woman Warrior Tells Her Tale | SikhNet


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## spnadmin (Oct 6, 2009)

I hope this thread becomes a long-lasting and running record of the greatness of Sikh women.


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## simpy (Oct 6, 2009)

Mai Harinder Kaur said:


> *We Sikhs love to brag that our religion sees women and men as equals. All well and good, Sikhi teaches this. But I don't see many of usr Kaurs standing up as equals. We tend to let the Singhs run everything. As marvelous as they are, we are also magnificent! We need to stand up, be visible, be tough and insist on being counted. We even need to stand in front of buses, if that's what it takes.*
> 
> We who are the daughters of Guru Gobind Singh Ji need to find our voice and stand up as the proud Singhnis we are. Guru Ji gives us the right, the power, perhaps even the obligation to do this.
> 
> ...


 

Women are supposed to be treated equally-- but are men(and for us--especially the Sikh Men) ready to accept it????????????????

NO, (EVEN IN SIKH COMMUNITY--NOT MORE THAN .000001%)

People who read Gurbani carefully with complete understanding-- they supposidly know Gurbani parralleles male and female..... they been saying this for last 500 years (at least)

AND

In Sri Harimandir Sahib - Woman are not allowed to do Kirtan .. Woman are not allowed near Baba Ji's Swari during Prikarma -- I feel it is clear hypocrisy..
These two facts show clearly that Men can never let that equality take place. I mean --shouldn't the equality start from there instead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We call it-- Most significant place for Sikhs.....Women have tried to change this and take their equal spot-- could never happen.

When a girl is born in a Sikh family -- more than 95% families are unhappy ... and what to say about female infanticide.... Yes in some cases it is forced by men but I have seen women equally participating in it...

Sikh women are no better than other women in the world. We expect the equality because we think that our counterparts also know what Guru Ji says... Unfortunately they only know this-- they dont actually follow His Words..

I believe that if we need to change this-- we need to start teaching our sons and grandsons to respect women equally....our daughters and grand daugters should also be taught that they are no inferiors.....AND Make the other women aware of this need as well........ And I must say, not just think of doing it for Sikhs, but for the humanity in general. 

Mothers and Grandmothers can do it so easily-- all they need to do is- treat them equally, and once it is ingrained from the begining-- they will never forget  --  I HOPE and PRAY...


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Oct 6, 2009)

What we are talking about here is freedom.  Sikh women, on the whole are no more free than our sisters in other, less "progressive" religions.

I have a couple of quotes that may be helpful in the point I am going to make.  Note:  I am changing masculine references in these so that they apply to women.)
First:

Freedom is a hard bought thing
A gift no [one] can give...
Freedom is the bread we eat
Let it be the way we die.
Carl Sandburg  (I am still trying to find the poem)​Second:  
A slave cannot be freed save [she] free [herself].  
Frederick Douglass
Neither can you enslave a free [woman].  The most you can do is kill [her].  Robert A. Heinlein

​What I am suggesting here is that we must do it ourselves.  What is given by another can be taken back by that other.  Our dear Singhs can be helpful and encouraging, but in the end, if we want our rights as free and equal Sikh women,  we must do it ourselves. 

And we must be ready to pay whatever price is necessary.  Punjabi society is highly patriarchal;  the entrenched power-elite will not willingly give up their power, especially to a group they see as weak and incompetent (and who gasp! have periods).  We need to look at this closely.  We must ensure that we are, in fact, strong and competent, that the judgment of us is in error.  (The period thing is a great gift of Vaheguru to enable us to bring forth new life.  It is a blessing, not an issue.)



> Mothers and Grandmothers can do it so easily-- all they need to do is- treat them equally, and once it is ingrained from the begining-- they will never forget -- I HOPE and PRAY...


Oh, is that all?  :rofl!!:Really, though, our sister Simpy ji is absolutely correct;  this must start in our homes with US, the mothers and grandmothers (and sisters and daughters, too - our siblings and parents can also learn from us!).  I am not so sure that this is easy as we have these heavy patriarchal values pounded into us from birth.  Not easy, but simple.  Very, very simple.

My upbringing was very unusual among Punjabi Sikhs.  I was the only girl with 7 elder brothers and my Dad raised me just as he raised them, with the same expectations, the same rights and the same responsibilities. (My mother was not in the picture.)  I realise this gives me a head start over many of my Sikh sisters.  I am a little bolder, a little more outspoken, a little more confident and a whole lot louder than most.  These are qualities that can be cultivated once we have decided to accomplish our goal and claim the true equality that is the gift of Akaal Purakh given to us through our beloved Guru ji. 

I would also call on our sisters from other non-Punjabi cultures to add their experience and expertise to ours. I know other cultures also have strong elements of patriarchy, but Western culture has been moving away from this now for quite some time and progress has been made.  Plus Western culture has not had this male baby obsession that Punjabi culture has.  While most parents want a son, they also welcome and celebrate their daughters.  (Correct me on this is I am wrong, please.)

So, ladies, I mean _women and girls_, Kaurs, Singhnis, Sardarnis, let's get to it.  And always remember the immortal words of Stephen Stills:
If we can't do with a smile on our face, if we can't do it with love in our hearts, then children, we ain't got no right to do it at all.  We're supposed to be some kind of different.  Dig it!  Dig it!

​Let us avoid the excesses of the Western Women's Liberation Movement.  We still love and respect our men;  we are not anti-male.  We Sikhs, female and male, are a positive group.  Our focus must be  pro-Freedom-and-Equality, not anti-Anything.  This is practical.  Being positive brings positive results.  Being negative brings negative results.

Chardi kala!

:ice:

(And yet another short comment has turned into an essay.  The price of being a writer, I suppose.)


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## spnadmin (Oct 6, 2009)

The only with which I disagree. Western culture does have a male baby obsession, we just hide it better, with statements and phrases that are more oblique.


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## simpy (Oct 6, 2009)

```
What I am suggesting here is that we must do it ourselves. What is given by another can be taken back by that other. Our dear Singhs can be helpful and encouraging, but in the end, if we want our rights as free and equal Sikh women, we must do it ourselves.
```
 
When a small child sees her sibling being given special treatment on an everyday basis, or sees his sibling being treated inferior to him....and this happens for a continued period of 10/15/20 years. What can help to erase those images???? 

Rights are only rights if the other party(men) will also recognize them as rights, i think....otherwise what do we mean by 'rights'?????


```
Oh, is that all? [IMG]http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/images/smilies/ROFL_200.GIF[/IMG]Really, though, our sister Simpy ji is absolutely correct; this must start in our homes with US, the mothers and grandmothers (and sisters and daughters, too - our siblings and parents can also learn from us!). I am not so sure that this is easy as we have these heavy patriarchal values pounded into us from birth. Not easy, but simple. Very, very simple.
```
 
Nothing is easy... we need to start from somewhere though. Yes this load of heavy patriarchal values is also pounded into us by the ways we were raised........ so if we need to change it we need to change the way we raise our children so the coming genarations. And it should be done to both--boys and girls. 

Boys have to learn to accept their counterpart Girls as equal and treat them with respect. Girls have to learn to take and keep that equal spot with dignity.

Upbringng is done with love--doesn't matter who is doing it..If the effort is made by Mothers and Grandmothers--- I believe that it can do wonders as a woman who herself understand that there has to be equality(as these are the women who are effected by degration not men) and a lesson given wrapped in that wonderful love can do wonders... yes we can add sisters/aunts/....and all the other possible motherly figures in that too............................

(I think it is a very good point you have made Harinder Kaur Ji....a short but valuable comment)


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Oct 6, 2009)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> The only with which I disagree. Western culture does have a male baby obsession, we just hide it better, with statements and phrases that are more oblique.




Narayanjot ji,  what you write is intriguing.  Please elaborate.

I have been watching the Sikhnet Film Festival Winners.  The Winner in the Intermediate Division, Through The As hes includes an interview with a young Kaur starting at about 6:40, which I think is relevant to this discussion.  Take a look, if you like.

Through the Ashes | SikhNet Youth Online Film Festival


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## spnadmin (Oct 7, 2009)

This story was picked up by Newsmaker and I copy it here so that it won't be lost in the coming weeks as old news. 

*Sikh crusader against forced marriages is Pride of Britain*

*London, Oct 7 : A Sikh woman whose campaign helped persuade the British government to move against forced marriages has won a prestigious award that celebrates 'extraordinary achievements by ordinary people.*

     Jasvinder Sanghera, who runs a charity that works to free people from forced marriages, was presented the Pride of Britain Award at a gala ceremony Tuesday night attended by a host of celebrities. 

Sanghera is a survivor of a violent attempt to push her into a forced marriage by her parents, who came to Britain from Punjab in the 1950s. 

She founded the charity Karma Nirvana in the city of Derby in 1993 to help victims of forced marriages and honour-violence after her older sister Robina committed suicide in 1983 to escape a forced marriage. 

Sanghera was instrumental in galvanizing British politicians to move against forced marriages - the British foreign ministry now has a Forced Marriage Unit (FMU) which receives around 5,000 calls a year from victims, according to a spokeswoman at Karma Nirvana. 

Some 65 percent of the cases FMU deals with are Pakistani Muslims, 30 percent are minors and 15 percent are boys or men. Every year, the FMU helps bring back to Britain around 400 people trapped in forced marriages overseas, she said. 

Karma Nirvana, which today runs a network of shelters in east-central Britain, deals with around 400 callers every month on its helpline, the youngest being a 10-year-old girl in the city of Leicester. 

"Jasvinder herself is looking after the case of an 11-year-old girl at the moment in the northeast of England," the spokeswoman added. 

The charity is in the process of setting up its South Asian male refuge for victims of forced marriage and honour-based violence. 

Force marriages are not only a violation of human rights, but are also linked closely to rape, imprisonment and honour-based or 'Izzat' violence, including killings. 

Although Pakistanis constitute the majority of forced marriage cases, British police have also dealt with cases from Turkish, Iranian, Romany, Bosnian, Kosovan and west African communities. 

The opposition Conservative Party has pledged to ban forced marriages if elected to power at the next due by June 3, 2010. 

Source Sikh crusader against forced marriages is Pride of Britain .:. newkerala.com Online News

And true she is in my opinion to the teachings of Guru Nanak because she is righting wrongs agains men and women from many nationalities and immigrant groups. She follows in the footsteps of our Gurus


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## spnadmin (Oct 7, 2009)

Here is her picture - took a few google searches.







         Jasvinder Sanghera.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Oct 7, 2009)

Narayanjot ji,

Thank you for posting this!

Yes, we can be very proud that Jasvinder Sanghera ji is one of us and of this tremendous work she is doing.

I wish there some way we could throw the whole concept of "izzat" into the depths of the sea.  No, wait, that would pollute the sea.  Let's shoot it into the sun where it could be harmlessly destroyed.

This reminds me of something my Dad used to say,  "Integrity above honour."

"Izzat" (honour) is primarily social and varies from culture to culture and from time to time.  So honour is relative and has nothing to do with ultimate morality.  It does a lot of damage, especially to those who do not or cannot accept the mores of the culture in which they live.

Integrity is personal.  It tells me within myself what is right and what is wrong.  It is unchanging wherever and whenever I may be.  To have integrity is to be true to my own inner self.  To live with integrity is truthful living.

This lady personifies integrity.  We can all learn from her.

Chardi kala!


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## spnadmin (Oct 7, 2009)

Really beautifully expressed Mai ji. Also from the heart.


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 7, 2009)

Guru Nanak was a feminist. If, we men can not understand that, then we are incapable of understanding  and then following His message. Hence, we can not call ourselves Sikhs but the ones with the Taliban mentality immersed in Me-ism, no matter how " handsome" we seem to look to ourselves in the mirror with our baana from the outside but the truth of the matter is that we are rolling ourselves in our self created muck from the inside.

Time for the true metamorphosis, the visit to the Mecca within, to become a true pilgrim of IK Ong Kaar by following Guru Nanak's message and becoming a feminist like him. 

This is the only real pilgrimage for us because we all come from a woman and this fact can not be denied no matter how we have become cretins, as men.

Tejwant Singh


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## Astroboy (Oct 7, 2009)

> Sikh women are no better than other women in the world. We expect the equality because we think that our counterparts also know what Guru Ji says... Unfortunately they only know this-- they dont actually follow His Words..



Simpy Ji,

You are partially correct - from your left brain's processed information. This is my belief - that we have two separate sections of the brain (usually called the left brain and the right brain). While the left brain processes information of I AM which is I am separate from you, my view points are different from yours, women are different from men in understanding a worded message, etc., etc., the right brain on the other hand processes information as in Universal Consciousness. Guru Ji used both left and right brain in processing information beneficial to the reader.

E.g., he refers to us a soul brides (regardless of the differences between individuals) who have only one goal in mind.

ਕਵਣੁ  ਸੁ  ਅਖਰੁ  ਕਵਣੁ  ਗੁਣੁ  ਕਵਣੁ  ਸੁ  ਮਣੀਆ  ਮੰਤੁ  ॥ 
कवणु सु अखरु कवणु गुणु कवणु सु मणीआ मंतु ॥ 
Kavaṇ so akẖar kavaṇ guṇ kavaṇ so maṇī▫ā manṯ. 
What is that word, what is that virtue, and what is that magic mantra? 

ਕਵਣੁ  ਸੁ  ਵੇਸੋ  ਹਉ  ਕਰੀ  ਜਿਤੁ  ਵਸਿ  ਆਵੈ  ਕੰਤੁ  ॥੧੨੬॥ 
कवणु सु वेसो हउ करी जितु वसि आवै कंतु ॥१२६॥ 
Kavaṇ so veso ha▫o karī jiṯ vas āvai kanṯ. ||126|| 
What are those clothes, which I can wear to captivate my Husband Lord? ||126|| 

ਨਿਵਣੁ  ਸੁ  ਅਖਰੁ  ਖਵਣੁ  ਗੁਣੁ  ਜਿਹਬਾ  ਮਣੀਆ  ਮੰਤੁ  ॥ 
निवणु सु अखरु खवणु गुणु जिहबा मणीआ मंतु ॥ 
Nivaṇ so akẖar kẖavaṇ guṇ jihbā maṇī▫ā manṯ. 
Humility is the word, forgiveness is the virtue, and sweet speech is the magic mantra. 

ਏ  ਤ੍ਰੈ  ਭੈਣੇ  ਵੇਸ  ਕਰਿ  ਤਾਂ  ਵਸਿ  ਆਵੀ  ਕੰਤੁ  ॥੧੨੭॥ 
ए त्रै भैणे वेस करि तां वसि आवी कंतु ॥१२७॥ 
Ė ṯarai bẖaiṇe ves kar ṯāŉ vas āvī kanṯ. ||127|| 
Wear these three robes, O sister, and you will captivate your Husband Lord. ||127|| 

See the last line - Wear these 3 robes, O Sister.

Sister is not just for women but for Men too. Because there is only one Male - God.

Dhan Guru Nanak, Dhan Guru Nanak.


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## spnadmin (Oct 8, 2009)

NamJap ji

The shabad can and does deliver us from our haumei. If the shabad were always in consciousness there would be no forced marriages, no child brides, no dowry killings, no little brothers being told to bludgeon their sisters to death because as minors they will receive lesser sentences in a court of law if caught, no young women being locked in the house before a wedding to a man they have never met, no men being forced into marriage, no selective abortion of girl fetuses, no purchasing of brides from Bengal because there are not enough women to go around in Punjab, no brothers pooling their money to buy one woman as the "bride" to one and making her the sexual partner of all of the others, no browbeating of women for not having sons, no NRI's keeping a wife in India and one in another country, no NRI's collecting dowries and impregnating a girl and then abandoning her. And all of this madness can be found on every continent.

NamJap ji - you are right. The world is out of touch with Universal Consciousness. The world is not walking in Dharma. If all of us understood we were the brides of Waheguru, and that we do not please Him when we are adorned in all the trappings and egotism of Maya, none of these injustices would happen. 

But grave injustices are happening! And Brave Kaurs like Jasvinder Sanghera, herself a *victim *of the delusional thinking that Guru Nanak asked us to forsake, is living in the Shabad Guru with her own understanding of truthful living.

You know that Dharma is represented by a wheel. When the spokes of a wheel are broken then the carriage runs off the road into a ditch. That is where we are too often, in a ditch. Then along come people like Puran Singh (a man), or like Jasvinder ji (a woman), and they try to repair the wheel, to envision a world where all the broken hearts, bodies and spirits can be healed in some small way. They are trying to live the Shabad Guru, because _simran_ is also in seva. This is a thread to honor  Brave Kaurs who are using their brains to mend the wheel--right side or left side I don't know which side they are using. I am just glad they are using their* brains. *

Forgive me and my left brain - I am not their equal.


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## Astroboy (Oct 8, 2009)

Narayanjot Kaur Ji,

Thank you for changing the direction of a possible collision course between my views and the views of some senior members. 
In the end of our education here on Earth, I have to engrave my Guru's teachings in my heart and mind.

ਧਨੁ  ਦਾਰਾ  ਸੰਪਤਿ  ਸਗਲ  ਜਿਨਿ  ਅਪੁਨੀ  ਕਰਿ  ਮਾਨਿ  ॥ 
धनु दारा स्मपति सगल जिनि अपुनी करि मानि ॥ 
Ḏẖan ḏārā sampaṯ sagal jin apunī kar mān. 
Your wealth, spouse, and all the possessions which you claim as your own - 

ਇਨ  ਮੈ  ਕਛੁ  ਸੰਗੀ  ਨਹੀ  ਨਾਨਕ  ਸਾਚੀ  ਜਾਨਿ  ॥੫॥ 
इन मै कछु संगी नही नानक साची जानि ॥५॥ 
In mai kacẖẖ sangī nahī Nānak sācẖī jān. ||5|| 
none of these shall go along with you in the end. O Nanak, know this as true. ||5||


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## spnadmin (Oct 8, 2009)

NamJap ji

I live to protect my sisters and my brothers from collisions. Most of the time I am not successful. :8-

Your choice of shabad is a good one. It reminds us of the time of death. If your last breath is drawn in recollection of living a spiritual life that is good. The spiritual life however takes many forms. The Guru's teachings also take many forms. You know that....


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Oct 8, 2009)

That is an interesting topic in itself, the spiritual life.  I think it means something slightly different to each individual Sikh.

A favourite quote from Dag Hammarskjold which is certainly Sikh in spirit.

"The road to holiness passes through the world of action."

This thread is mostly celebrating Kaurs whose lives have been passing through the world of action in a dramatic way.

As far back as the days of the Gurus, Sikh women - a few Sikh women - have been sant-sipahis of action.  From Mai Bhago to Jasvinder Saghera, our Singhnis have been women we can take pride in.

I can hardly wait to see what the next generation accomplishes!  :happy:


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## Astroboy (Oct 8, 2009)

It seems to me that I need to change rather than try to change the world 
because peace is obtained from within me. 
This tuk made alot of sense to me. 

ੴ  ਸਤਿਗੁਰ  ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ  ॥ 
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥ 
Ik▫oaŉkār saṯgur parsāḏ. 
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: 

ਬੇਦ  ਕਤੇਬ  ਇਫਤਰਾ  ਭਾਈ  ਦਿਲ  ਕਾ  ਫਿਕਰੁ  ਨ  ਜਾਇ  ॥ 
बेद कतेब इफतरा भाई दिल का फिकरु न जाइ ॥ 
Beḏ kaṯeb ifṯarā bẖā▫ī ḏil kā fikar na jā▫e. 
The Vedas and the Scriptures are only make-believe, O Siblings of Destiny; they do not relieve the anxiety of the heart. 

ਟੁਕੁ  ਦਮੁ  ਕਰਾਰੀ  ਜਉ  ਕਰਹੁ  ਹਾਜਿਰ  ਹਜੂਰਿ  ਖੁਦਾਇ  ॥੧॥ 
टुकु दमु करारी जउ करहु हाजिर हजूरि खुदाइ ॥१॥ 
Tuk ḏam karārī ja▫o karahu hājir hajūr kẖuḏā▫e. ||1|| 
If you will only center yourself on the Lord, even for just a breath, then you shall see the Lord face-to-face, present before you. ||1|| 

ਬੰਦੇ  ਖੋਜੁ  ਦਿਲ  ਹਰ  ਰੋਜ  ਨਾ  ਫਿਰੁ  ਪਰੇਸਾਨੀ  ਮਾਹਿ  ॥ 
बंदे खोजु दिल हर रोज ना फिरु परेसानी माहि ॥ 
Banḏe kẖoj ḏil har roj nā fir paresānī māhi. 
O human being, search your own heart every day, and do not wander around in confusion. 

ਇਹ  ਜੁ  ਦੁਨੀਆ  ਸਿਹਰੁ  ਮੇਲਾ  ਦਸਤਗੀਰੀ  ਨਾਹਿ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥ 
इह जु दुनीआ सिहरु मेला दसतगीरी नाहि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ 
Ih jo ḏunī▫ā sihar melā ḏasaṯgīrī nāhi. ||1|| rahā▫o. 
This world is just a magic-show; no one will be holding your hand. ||1||Pause|| 
Ang 727


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## spnadmin (Oct 8, 2009)

I remember once when the discussion on this thread was interrupted by a discourse on cricket. Seemed Kaurs were taking themselves too seriously. And 2 or 3 Singhs wanted to lighten things up. My feeling at the time was that Kaurs were not taking themselves seriously enough. We did get back to the topic though. Sings cannot pull on the braids of their sisters indefinitely. Soon they give up. And how could they survive without us.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Oct 8, 2009)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> I remember once when the discussion on this thread was interrupted by a discourse on cricket. Seemed Kaurs were taking themselves too seriously. And 2 or 3 Singhs wanted to lighten things up. My feeling at the time was that Kaurs were not taking themselves seriously enough. We did get back to the topic though. Sings cannot pull on the braids of their sisters indefinitely. Soon they give up. And how could they survive without us.



The last dude who pulled my braids ended up with a broken arm.  :u):  (He wasn't a Singh, though.)

My dear brothers, we Singhnis tend to be soft, gentle, loving and kind - and we have backbones of solid steel.  And we are growing.

The last verse of "I Am Woman"
I am woman watch me grow
See me standing toe to toe
As I spread my lovin' arms across the land
But I'm still an embryo
With a long long way to go
Until I make my brother understand

Oh yes I am wise
But it's wisdom born of pain
Yes, I've paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to I can do anything
I am strong (strong)
I am invincible (invincible)
I am woman
​


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## Astroboy (Oct 8, 2009)

> We did get back to the topic though. Singhs cannot pull on the braids of their sisters indefinitely.
> Soon they give up. And how could they survive without us.


So true, what will we do without our Sisters ? 
They go through so much of physical changes and pain, whether physically and emotionally that 
the Singhs don't even have an iota of an idea what's happening.
This could grossly be due to the lack of passing on the message. 

Since males and females are different from the left brain functions then we have to deal with and correct the flaw of how to ask. 
This has been extensively dealt with *by Dr. John Gray* on Youtube - *Why Mars and Venus Collide.*
YouTube - John Gray (PART 1) "Why Mars & Venus Collide"



> You will change the world whether you want to or not. We all change the world just by being here.
> The question is in what way will any of us will change the world and how much.


Page 1164, Line 9
ਹਸਤ ਖੇਲਤ ਤੇਰੇ ਦੇਹੁਰੇ ਆਇਆ ॥
हसत खेलत तेरे देहुरे आइआ ॥
Hasaṯ kẖelaṯ ṯere ḏehure ā▫i▫ā.
Laughing and playing, I came to Your Temple, O Lord.
*Devotee Namdev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## simpy (Oct 8, 2009)

namjap said:


> It seems to me that I need to change rather than try to change the world


 
Totally agree here namjap ji...any change start at individual level...........Society doesn't change by itself as it is an accumulation of individuals.........

The thread is about women, their status in society, how they are treated and what is being done at individual or commulitive manner to improve their status, what else can we do to change existing problems------------at least this what i understood from majority of the comments here...........

so here we go.....in my humble opinion.... change is needed in both boys and girls... boys need to learn to accept girls as their equal... and girls need to learn they are equal and need to know how to get and hold that equal spot .. at home front, in family setup, at work place and in society in general....

Peace is going to come from within for everybody.............let us get ready to enjoy it at a commulative manner as well..as not everybody in this world is at the state of Sehaj namjap ji........

If all men and women are at peace(from within), women would have never got treated inferior at all....................period..no body would have any need to post the starting comment................ 

everywhere in the world women are treated badly.. I have been talking to people from different backgrounds and nationalities about this issue and everybody been telling me shocking stories.....everytime .... Once you know the truth, you just cannot remain silent.... In every heart there is an urge to protect the innocent...........History tells us that just our own fight for freedom is not enough.........we do need men participating equally......Seems like you dont like the idea....... sorry i dont know from which side of the brain this understanding came from.......... wow namjap ji.... you made my day..........


```
You are partially correct - from your left brain's processed information. This is my belief - that we have two separate sections of the brain (usually called the left brain and the right brain). While the left brain processes information of I AM which is I am separate from you, my view points are different from yours, women are different from men in understanding a worded message, etc., etc., the right brain on the other hand processes information as in Universal Consciousness. Guru Ji used both left and right brain in processing information beneficial to the reader.
 
E.g., he refers to us a soul brides (regardless of the differences between individuals) who have only one goal in mind
```
I think we are not disscussing what side of the brain Simpy uses........
We are disscussing how women are treated in society...........and how they treat themselves............And what can be done to improve that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I think for disscussing use of left and right brain we need a seperate thread  .. i can disscuss that as well, here, let us not destroy this thread......

Anyways coming back to my point---- if I am partially incorrect(as you say), please elaborate----why women are not allowed to do Kirtan and Palki Seva in Sri Darbar Sahib ji------------where Kirtan is sung from the bani of that same Guru who---as per your statement--used(btw- pardon me -i say 'uses') both sides of His Brain.........Please.... I want to know what you say from The Left and The Right Side of Your Brain... then as per your judgement i will use whatever side of my brain to understand your worded message..................It is a fact namjap ji, and for many many Sikh women a big issue.................let us see, what are your thoughts about this--do you say 'it is ok' or 'it should be changed' or 'you suggest something else' ... after reading your comment about the use of brain knowlegde of yours, i really want to know your take on this.....!!!!!!!!!! You are a Sikh, I guess, I hope you have all the facts about this issue, if not let me know i will provide..........using my brain where they are stored................. 

Seriously namjap ji, you have brought a big smile on my face...........thanks to you..please dont forget to answer my query.....


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## Astroboy (Oct 8, 2009)

> please elaborate----why women are not allowed to do Kirtan and Palki Seva in Sri Darbar Sahib ji------------where Kirtan is sung from the bani of that same Guru



I am against discrimination against women. 
In my opinion women should be allowed to sing in Sri Harmandir Sahib.


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## simpy (Oct 8, 2009)

Namjap Ji, you are so right...........I thought of this and other discriminations and made the comment.......and if you read my posts i have said that there are men (yes a very small percentage) who dont participate in this kind of discrimination........

But the number of those men is way too small to make a change----------as we all know that from many centuries one or the other type of discrimination is going on -- despite of all the efforts-nothing changed so far on a commulative level..............

A long way to go..........need to change the mentality all together


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## Astroboy (Oct 8, 2009)

Simpy Ji,

I can understand that you want to talk about these things. 
So I will be a listener. 
But how am I going to know if that's what is needed 
from your side - to be heard by a good listener !!!


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## spnadmin (Oct 8, 2009)

simpy said:


> If all men and women are at peace(from within), women would have never got treated inferior at all....................period..no body would have any need to post the starting comment................



NamJap ji

Whenever I am most perplexed the answer comes from Guruji. One of our Gurus put on two swords. Both swords were two sides of the same consciousness. We are coming up on Bandi Chhorr Divas. Let's think about it. Here is a Guru who never wrote one word of Gurbani. What was he thinking? What did this mean to him? The words of his father Guru Arjan Dev?

ਸਾਕਤ ਜਾਇ ਨਿਵਹਿ ਗੁਰ ਆਗੈ ਮਨਿ ਖੋਟੇ ਕੂੜਿ ਕੂੜਿਆਰੇ ॥ 
saakath jaae nivehi gur aagai man khottae koorr koorriaarae ||
The faithless cynics go and bow before the Guru, but their minds are corrupt and false, totally false.
 
 ਜਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਹੈ ਉਠਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ ਬਹਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਘੁਸਰਿ ਬਗੁਲਾਰੇ ॥ 
jaa gur kehai outhahu maerae bhaaee behi jaahi ghusar bagulaarae ||
When the Guru says, ""Rise up, my Siblings of Destiny"", they sit down, crowded in like cranes.
 
 ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਵਰਤੈ ਚੁਣਿ ਕਢੇ ਲਧੋਵਾਰੇ ॥ 
gurasikhaa andhar sathigur varathai chun kadtae ladhhovaarae ||
The True Guru prevails among His GurSikhs; they pick out and expel the wanderers.

Maybe in his time it was not the time to stare into the water. ਠਗ ਦਿਸਟਿ ਬਗਾ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗਾ ॥  thag dhisatt bagaa liv laagaa ||  You look like a thug; pretending to meditate, you pose like a crane. 

Please forgive me.


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## simpy (Oct 8, 2009)

namjap said:


> Simpy Ji,
> 
> I can understand that you want to talk about these things.
> So I will be a listener.
> ...


 
namjap ji, 

first of all--i do or dont want to but i have to--- as a human who has recognized the problem in the society at the world level----------------------

i am not trying to prove something.....it is a fact and is existing fact, going on for a long time.........just reminding people over and over........so that more and more come upfront and do the needful..

Just a listener -- not enough (in my humble opinion)

Your Counterparts are being degraded................ ji ................


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## Astroboy (Oct 8, 2009)

Simpy Ji and Kaur Jios,

Kindly make a list of 3 things which require immediate attention so that we can initiate a world-class Internet dialogue on pressing issues. We at SPN have the teamwork to address these things to other Sikh Forums as well. 

Our dynamic duo - Administrators are one of the most resourceful individuals on the net. 
I will be glad to bring those issues and take them to the next step. 

But first, the Kaurs from all over the world must discuss which are the priority issues. Please invite Kaurs from other sites to join SPN.

Humbly at your service,

~ namjap ~


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## simpy (Oct 8, 2009)

Great effort...........

har kam sharatan te karan di aadat hai na par.........list will be ready soon........


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## simpy (Oct 8, 2009)

Starting the list--------  needs refining-- i am only talking loud..........please feel free to suggest corrections and editing................

1. Educate people about gender equality  in such a way  ----- 

so that we can encourage people to stop 
a.discrimination, violence and torture within the family---like no female infanticide, rape, verbal and physical abuse, 
b.discrimination at work place--like equal opportunity, equal pay........ 
----
----
----


2. Sikhs must come forward--men and women in large numbers and have our SGPC change the stupid tradition at Sri darbar Sahib and allow women to do Kirtan and do Palki Seva---- AND-- organize the seva and matha tekna services so that it is easily approachable... like normal human beings... There is no dearth of money... many things can be done if we want-- where there is a will there is a way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i guess we may need to write the upper paragraph little nicely... this is my raw thought................


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 8, 2009)

*" When we change the way we look at things, then the things we look at change."*

This goes for all of us, no exception.


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## simpy (Oct 8, 2009)

List with new update--

Starting the list-------- needs refining-- i am only talking loud..........please feel free to suggest corrections and editing................

1. Educate people about gender equality in such a way ----- 

so that we can encourage people to stop 
a.discrimination, violence and torture within the family---like no female infanticide, rape, verbal and physical abuse, 
b.discrimination at work place--like equal opportunity, equal pay........ 
----
----
----

The way of education should be like this that we are able to win their hearts-- so they actually use that knowledge, do their homework and actually be productive in this matter.......
like--show them how the society is when women are degraded(in whatever sense we are talking about) and then show them the picture how it will be if they are treated equal-- certainly a well treated person will do much much better-- if our daughters/daughter-in-laws/wives/mothers/aunts/sisters/// are getting good treatment, they will certainly excell in every arena...... and actually help them understand how it is going to help them as many people just have this obsession that if a girl/woman excells--it can be somehow not good-- we need to get this mentality changed--





2. Sikhs must come forward--men and women in large numbers and have our SGPC change the stupid tradition at Sri darbar Sahib and allow women to do Kirtan and do Palki Seva---- AND-- organize the langar hall entrance, seva and matha tekna services so that it is easily approachable... like normal human beings... (i have seen women getting mistreated even in langar lines the way they have now.....There is no dearth of money... many things can be done if we want-- where there is a will there is a way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3. Educating Women--- about their status, mostly they themselves dont understand that they are in a bad situation... they just linger on---- or even know that there is help avalaible out there.............


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## kds1980 (Oct 8, 2009)

Mai Harinder Kaur said:


> Narayanjot ji,
> 
> Thank you for posting this!
> 
> ...



Mai ji  and Narayanjot ji

I am quite surprised by the people who are saying that jasvinder sanghera is one of us and we are proud of her as sikh woman.In her personal life she was
no where close to be a good woman forget about being a good sikh .

----------------------------------------------------------------------
sikhchic.com | The Art and Culture of the Diaspora | Shame

Although Jassey certainly seems like the model husband and father, Jas cheats on him with a man she meets while at a disco with Lucy. Surjit soon reveals himself as a violent control freak. When he breaks her nose with a vicious punch, Jas confesses everything to Jassey and begs for his help in ending the affair. 

Hoping for a fresh start, Jas and Jassey move back to Derby. A long-awaited phone call from Jas' mother arrives, but it is only to relay atrocious news: Robina, trapped for years in an horrendously abusive marriage, has committed suicide by self-immolation with paraffin. Jas is not allowed to enter her parent's home or participate in the family's mourning. 

Jas' half-hearted attempts to hold her marriage together for Lisa's sake soon fizzle out when she meets Rajvinder and, in short order, starts another affair and moves in with him.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

She cheated twice on her role model husband.So my question is this type of woman is going to be we are proud of?

Certainly what she is doing is good.but she is herself is no where close to be a role model for women


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Oct 8, 2009)

Kanwardeep Singh ji,

It is quite possible that I wrote without having all the facts.  At this point, I have no idea what is true about this particular woman.  If she is truly lacking in morals, I retract the statement of her having integrity and any pride we can take in her as a Sikh, although I still applaud the work she is doing.

However, I stand by what I wrote about honour "izzat" and integrity.  This whole izzat thing has got to go!


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## kds1980 (Oct 8, 2009)

Mai Harinder Kaur said:


> Kanwardeep Singh ji,
> 
> It is quite possible that I wrote without having all the facts.  At this point, I have no idea what is true about this particular woman.  If she is truly lacking in morals, I retract the statement of her having integrity and any pride we can take in her as a Sikh, although I still applaud the work she is doing.
> 
> However, I stand by what I wrote about honour "izzat" and integrity.  This whole izzat thing has got to go!



Mai ji

I have seen glorifying jasvinder sanghera on some sikh  site's despite knowing the facts.She was hardly a victim of forced marriage but a victim of Lust and her own desire's.In her story The main victim I see is jassey her boyfriend and husband who unlike many Bfs did not used and threw her and infact fulfilled all his duties as good husband and even forgave her on her first affair
He is really  great man .But instead of returning her love and care she cheated her not once but twice and nowhere i saw that she is saying that she regretted her decision.


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## spnadmin (Oct 8, 2009)

Kanwardeep Singh ji

The point pursued in these most recent postings has pertained to healing wounds inflicted by social indifference to women and to men. 


*"so that we can encourage people to stop 
a.discrimination, violence and torture within the family---like no female infanticide, rape, verbal and physical abuse, 
b.discrimination at work place--like equal opportunity, equal pay......*" (simpy ji)


When a person is able to make headway -- and her Pride of Britain Award was conferred because she has made headway in addressing such problems, then she/anyone is doing important work - that is what I applaud. When I received help from an infectious disease specialist years ago for a rare infection, my confidence in him was based on his reputation as a "healer." I have no idea whether or not he was faithful to his wife. Would that make a difference?

I too have questions. Many of us have "sinned" in one way or the other. For how long must our wrongful deeds haunt us? Is there never a time when our wrongful deeds are off the table for criticism? I hope so for my own sake. How many of us have spotless records? Is reaching out to humanity a way to recover our virtue? How are we judged at the hour of death? And by whom? Against what measuring stick?


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## kds1980 (Oct 8, 2009)

> When a person is able to make headway -- and her Pride of Britain Award was conferred because she has made headway in addressing such problems, then she/anyone is doing important work - that is what I applaud. When I received help from an infectious disease specialist years ago for a rare infection, my confidence in him was based on his reputation as a "healer." I have no idea whether or not he was faithful to his wife. Would that make a differenc



Narayanjot ji

This thread is Kaur power not women power I am sure there are other  non sikh women too which are doing great work but there name is not mentioned in this thread.The case of scientists ,doctors are different we do appreciate them for their work but if they had something wrong in personal life we don't see them as role models.As i said above what she is doing is good.What wrong i see here is that she is portraying herself as victim of forced marriage which she hardly is.



> I too have questions. Many of us have "sinned" in one way or the other. For how long must our wrongful deeds haunt us? Is there never a time when our wrongful deeds are off the table for criticism? I hope so for my own sake. How many of us have spotless records? Is reaching out to humanity a way to recover our virtue? How are we judged at the hour of death? And by whom? Against what measuring stick?



It depends on what type of mistakes we did.For example if a man was a womaniser and used women as tissue paper and never respected them and by the time he  is 60 and he changes himself and start preaching to youngsters to see women as their mothers,and sisters then how many of youngsters will take his advice seriously?Also as i said above nowhere she said that she committed a mistake.If our mistakes are too big then we can't become a role model for society or preach others to be good when we never did that
by ourself.I am not against jasvinder sanghera all I am against is her portrayal.


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## spnadmin (Oct 8, 2009)

Thank you for your clarification Kanwardeep Singh ji. We may have to agree to disagree. Are we not praising a Sikh, a Kaur, for her outreach to victimized women and victimized men?  Or are we on the brink of disqualifying her as a Sikh? I am comfortable with the first question. Not with the second.

The question of whether virtue is decided according to our deeds is a question that philosophers have debated over centuries. The question will continue to be debated as long as there are human beings. Who among us is perfect?


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 8, 2009)

Kanwardeep ji,

Guru fateh.

Please forgive my bluntness but I am a bit bewildered at your logic and rationale which seems to have an underlying bias based on some sort of "moral values" which have no redemeption, what we call " KALANK" ( morally condemed by the society forever) in Indian culture. A person becomes an outcast for the rest of her life.


You write to Mai ji:



> Mai ji
> 
> I have seen glorifying jasvinder sanghera on some sikh site's despite knowing the facts.She was hardly a victim of forced marriage but a victim of Lust and her own desire's.In her story The main victim I see is jassey her boyfriend and husband who unlike many Bfs did not used and threw her and infact fulfilled all his duties as good husband and even forgave her on her first affair
> He is really great man .But instead of returning her love and care she cheated her not once but twice and nowhere i saw that she is saying that she regretted her decision.


No one is glorifying her misbehaviour or her immoral past but what she is doing now to help others despite her own blemished past which it seems must have taught her a lesson to be on this crusade.

How do you know she does not feel regretful? What kind of these demands are you trying to impose on her? For what?

As Narayanjot ji said, we all make mistakes and we all have skeletons in the closet not for the sake of Halloween but our past always clings on to us like ticks, especially when we have done wrong things in life.

But isn't that the true essence of turning out to be a lotus from the muck that Gurbani teaches us about?

Then you write to Narayanjot ji,



> This thread is Kaur power not women power I am sure there are other non sikh women too which are doing great work but there name is not mentioned in this thread.The case of scientists ,doctors are different we do appreciate them for their work but if they had something wrong in personal life we don't see them as role models.As i said above what she is doing is good.What wrong i see here is that she is portraying herself as victim of forced marriage which she hardly is.


Aren't Kaurs women? I do not see the distinction you are trying to make and under what reasoning? Yes, there are all kinds of women from all walks of lives and faiths that have done good for the fellow women.

I have no idea what the word Role Model means in your mind? Does the person have to be utopically perfect from her birth to have that, shall we call the title or a person who has been through "hell", by her own doing and then come out of it to help others? What is wrong with that?



> It depends on what type of mistakes we did.For example if a man was a womaniser and used women as tissue paper and never respected them and by the time he is 60 and he changes himself and start preaching to youngsters to see women as their mothers,and sisters then how many of youngsters will take his advice seriously?Also as i said above nowhere she said that she committed a mistake.If our mistakes are too big then we can't become a role model for society or preach others to be good when we never did that
> by ourself.I am not against jasvinder sanghera all I am against is her portrayal.


You are totally wrong with your reasoning, your assessment and your prophecy above. In the US, Ex-criminals who were Drug dealers, Molesters, murderers on parole go to different schools and tell the kids their stories  to teach them not to become and do what they had done in the past. What better example than these " role models" who admit that they have done many wrong things and  the price they had to pay for those crimes.

Sikhi is about forgiveness and reintegration not about out-casting people who have done something wrong. If we use that  yard stick, then we ourselves will be the first culprits of our own wrong doings.


Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Oct 8, 2009)

I have been thinking about these three things to accomplish all day.  This has been neither easy or pleasant for me.  Here is what I have come up with.

1.  First and foremost, we must end the physical violence against women and girls in our community.  I will start at the most basic level.  Our husbands, sons, fathers simply must stop raising their hands against us.  Quit hitting us!  We must stop pretending that this physical battering does not happen.  It does and it happens often.  We must not be ashamed or afraid to do whatever it takes, including calling the police to put an end to it.  Our daughters need to be taught to protect themselves.  Gatka is a wonderful choice.  I admit that it shames me that this is a problem, but it is, a huge problem, rarely acknowledged.  All our other male/female problems are dwarfed when held up to this gross physical violence.

There is an element of shame among us if we are battered.  There is an assumption that we must somehow deserve it. This is a nonsense attitude that we must change.  No one deserves this treatment.

And I haven't yet mentioned the murder of our girl children, whether before or after birth.

I have been told that first people's minds must be changed, then the behaviour will change of itself.  What are we to do until the men change their minds, live with black eyes, broken bones, and the feeling of shame that we somehow deserve this, that we bring it upon ourselves?

This idea that the attitudes of the men must first change is a fallacy.  I have seen it in the United States civil rights movement.  When the Civil Rights Bill of 1964 (I think I have the year right) was passed, few Americans believed in anything approaching racial equality.  Still, the law was changed and as behaviours changed, attitudes changed, too.  Who in 1964 would have believed Barack Obama could be elected President less than 50 years later?  (I have been trying to think of something as dramatic in Canada and India and the UK, but nothing comes to mind.)

Likewise, if we women start insisting on the laws against domestic violence be enforced, they will be enforced.  And the men will stop hitting us, if only because jail is unpleasant.  I could go on and on, but I won't.

The other goals we need to attain pale in significance next to this one.  Yes, I want to hear Kaurs singing kirtan at Harinmandir Sahib.  Yes, we ought to perform every sewa an individual woman is physically capable of performing.  Yes, we should be treated as equals.  Yes, yes,  yes.  

But until our physical safety is assured, these other things are distractions.

I say, let us focus on ending physical domestic violence.  Once we make some headway there, I'll talk about numbers two and three.

And let us do it always with chardi kala!


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Oct 8, 2009)

Kanwardeep ji,

My last word (I hope) about Jasvinder Sanghera.  

What right do I have to judge her?  My own life would not bear close inspection.  If you'd like the whole list, ask and I'll post it here in SPN.  I make no secret of my misdeeds.  The fact that I did these things in the madness following 1984 is no excuse.  A Khalsa doesn't make excuses.    If you step off a cliff, gravity doesn't care why you did it.

I stepped off a cliff and I fell.  And my Guru ji caught me in kind and loving arms.  I am not uninjured;  I am given the opportunity to recover. I am doing my best to use that opportunity wisely.   I understand something of the Kirpaa of Vaheguru. 

I cannot judge this lady.  I do not know what is in her heart.  That is between her and her Guru.  And possibly the Panj Piyare.  I can only say that she is doing a very good work.


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## kds1980 (Oct 9, 2009)

> Aren't Kaurs women? I do not see the distinction you are trying to make and under what reasoning? Yes, there are all kinds of women from all walks of lives and faiths that have done good for the fellow women.
> 
> I have no idea what the word Role Model means in your mind? Does the person have to be utopically perfect from her birth to have that, shall we call the title or a person who has been through "hell", by her own doing and then come out of it to help others? What is wrong with tha



Tejwant ji

Kaurs are women But can we also say the same thing about men when we use thread like singh power and we only only put the cases and stories of Puran gursikh men.Why don't we put stories of Non sikh men or clean shaven sikh men which are doing good.Let me ask
you a question Yuvraj singh (cricketer) and Abhinav Bindra(gold medalist) are both from clean shaven sikh and have accomplished much in sports but did the entire sikh community recognise their acheivements the answer is no.Infact more hate posts on sikh sites I read about them than being happy.So sikh community never recognised contribution of clean shaven sikh men.so why do we have double standards when it comes to women Why we start using liberal logic when it comes to women.Is it not the double standard which we are talking and which we themself are using.



> You are totally wrong with your reasoning, your assessment and your prophecy above. In the US, Ex-criminals who were Drug dealers, Molesters, murderers on parole go to different schools and tell the kids their stories to teach them not to become and do what they had done in the past. What better example than these " role models" who admit that they have done many wrong things and the price they had to pay for those crimes.
> 
> Sikhi is about forgiveness and reintegration not about out-casting people who have done something wrong. If we use that yard stick, then we ourselves will be the first culprits of our own wrong doings.



The criminals those actually preaches to youngsters do recognise their mistake and the problems they faced in lives  and how it ruined their life because the mistakes they committed themselves.
They also face punishment for their wrong deeds.so preaching without recognising
your mistake and punishment is worthless
Now my question is Jasvinder herself gave her husband mental torture by cheating twice.So tell me where she is recognising her mistakes or preaching other women not to cheat.I have read many discussions on Jasvinder sanghera even the hard core supporter of her did not put any quote of her where she is even regretting her mistake.

You said that sikhi is about forgiveness but forgiveness is one of the very cunning weapon which people used.So we should be careful about forgiveness.For every one real forgiveness there are 99 people who just use it as weapon.I am sure you have heard of muahwara( 900 choohe khaake billi haj ko chali)


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## kds1980 (Oct 9, 2009)

Mai Harinder Kaur said:


> Kanwardeep ji,
> 
> My last word (I hope) about Jasvinder Sanghera.
> 
> ...



Mai ji

I am not asking anyone to judge her neither I am saying she should be outcasted.The only thing I am against is Her portrayal .I know you also Post on thelangarhall.com and you can see there are already 3 topics dedicated to her.


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## spnadmin (Oct 9, 2009)

It is time to return to celebration of Kaurs, and the creation of the list of things we would like to see do that.


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 9, 2009)

Kanwardeep Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

This will be my last post to you on this subject because things are becoming argumentative rather than a learning process in  an interactive manner. It is very clear that you have some inherent bias that makes you not see others' viewpoint nor does it give you any leeway for forgiveness and redemption no matter how bad the person has been in the past.

You write:



> Kaurs are women But can we also say the same thing about men when we use thread like singh power and we only only put the cases and stories of Puran gursikh men.Why don't we put stories of Non sikh men or clean shaven sikh men which are doing good.


Kanwardeep ji,

You should ask that question to yourself. You often put news and articles here about many subjects. Why haven't you made an effort so far putting the stories of non-Sikh men or dirty shaven  Sikh men?




> Let me ask you a question Yuvraj singh (cricketer) and Abhinav Bindra(gold medalist) are both from clean shaven sikh and have accomplished much in sports but did the entire sikh community recognise their acheivements the answer is no.


Do they call themselves Sikhs? Are their parents puran GurSikhs or dirty shaven like them. I know that Abhinav Bindra, who does not even use the name Singh and his first name sounds more like a Hindu name never claimed himself a Sikh in any of his interviews after he won the gold medal in the Beijing Olympics. In fact his father who is also a dirty shaven was caught in some business scandal.  Do Yuvraj Singh  or Dhoni call themselves Sikhs? Are their parents visible Sikhs? Please post some news about them so I can learn about their Sikh views.



> Infact more hate posts on sikh sites I read about them than being happy.So sikh community never recognised contribution of clean shaven sikh men.so why do we have double standards when it comes to women Why we start using liberal logic when it comes to women.Is it not the double standard which we are talking and which we themself are using.


You have the power to combat that by posting the news that prove otherwise.



> The criminals those actually preaches to youngsters do recognise their mistake and the problems they faced in lives and how it ruined their life because the mistakes they committed themselves.
> They also face punishment for their wrong deeds.so preaching without recognising your mistake and punishment is worthless


So, what kind of punishment in your opinion does Jasvinder Sanghera deserve for her immoral transgression in the past? If you gave her that punishment then would you be fine for what she is doing now?

Let us take other examples. Magic Johnson, one of the greatest basketball player in the NBA from my team, The Lakers, caught HIV because of his sleeping with many many women while being married. So, do you think he is a bad spokesperson for HIV  for the kids because he did not get any punishment and he was even more immoral if one measures with your morality yardstick than  Jaswinder? ( btw, his  net worth is almost a billion dollar today with his business ventures after he left the game of basketball).

There are many ex baseball players who chewed tobacco and got mouth cancer and due to this some of them have disfigured faces and they have become role models for the kids and tell them what not to do as Magic Johnson is doing for the HIV virus.

Your arguments seems more circular and parochial where you just want to prove that only your viewpoint is the right one and that is the only one that matters rather than debating on the merits of points presented by others where all can learn.



> Now my question is Jasvinder herself gave her husband mental torture by cheating twice.So tell me where she is recognising her mistakes or preaching other women not to cheat.I have read many discussions on Jasvinder sanghera even the hard core supporter of her did not put any quote of her where she is even regretting her mistake.


Pardon my ignorance but I have no idea what point are you trying to make by repeating the above again and again in every post of yours.  I have no idea whether she has recognised her mistakes or not. That is not for me to judge or demand from her when she should. I am sure she will when she feels ready for that. What kind of time ultimatum did you have in mind for Jaswinder to recognise her past mistakes?



> You said that sikhi is about forgiveness but forgiveness is one of the very cunning weapon which people used.So we should be careful about forgiveness.For every one real forgiveness there are 99 people who just use it as weapon.I am sure you have heard of muahwara( 900 choohe khaake billi haj ko chali)


You are doing nothing in the above but being a "moral judge" here for the reasons only known to you, which is sad.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## tony (Oct 9, 2009)

Mai Harinder Kaur said:


> I'm with Narayanjot ji. This other woman is distracting us. Let's get back to the creation of this list of things to do. OMG
> 
> To reiterate my position, I feel that physical, domestic violence is such a large and pervasive problem that we ought first to deal with that, then move on to other issues.
> 
> ...


 you should read Jasvinders second book "Daughters of shame" before citing her as a distraction, She is years ahead of you on the subject of domestic violence. The list you wish to create is already being fought by someone who in my mind is a real Sikh, someone who fights oppression and gives women from any religion the right to chose their own way of life, She is a Sikh who has saved many lives, Her tainted past is more than wiped clean by the work she is doing. You may be suprised at how many sisters are involved in the suffering, it aint just the men,
Jasvinder helped the forced marriage bill go to parliament, in 2007 she recieved the women of the year award, best magazines bravest women award,  and the inspiration award for women 2008. She was also made an honourary doctor of the university of Derby in 2008. Hows that for bigging up the Kaurs.
Tony (the dirty shaven Sikh)
P.S read her first book "Shame" as well


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Oct 9, 2009)

tony said:


> you should read Jasvinders second book "Daughters of shame" before citing her as a distraction, She is years ahead of you on the subject of domestic violence. The list you wish to create is already being fought by someone who in my mind is a real Sikh, someone who fights oppression and gives women from any religion the right to chose their own way of life, She is a Sikh who has saved many lives, Her tainted past is more than wiped clean by the work she is doing. You may be suprised at how many sisters are involved in the suffering, it aint just the men,
> Jasvinder helped the forced marriage bill go to parliament, in 2007 she recieved the women of the year award, best magazines bravest women award,  and the inspiration award for women 2008. She was also made an honourary doctor of the university of Derby in 2008. Hows that for bigging up the Kaurs.
> Tony (the dirty shaven Sikh)
> P.S read her first book "Shame" as well



Tony ji,

I miswrote.:whisling:

I did not mean to say that she is a distraction;  I meant that arguing about her past is a distraction.  Please forgive me for my sloppy wording.


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## tony (Oct 9, 2009)

mai ji 
Accepted. I apolagise if I came across a bit harsh but She is truly a great lady that the kaurs should be proud of. Her work is an inspiration to any one who wishes to help fight the injustices against women.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Oct 9, 2009)

tony said:


> mai ji
> Accepted. I apolagise if I came across a bit harsh but She is truly a great lady that the kaurs should be proud of. Her work is an inspiration to any one who wishes to help fight the injustices against women.




Tony ji,

Not at all.  We need to be called out when we make such mistakes.  Or at least I do.  :yes:

Just a sidenote:  I do not mind saying when I am wrong.  One thing I learned when I turned 50 is that it's OK to be wrong and say, "I'm sorry."  And it's OK to not know and say, "I don't know."  I can leave omniscience and infallibility to Akaal Purakh (by whatever name).


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## tony (Oct 9, 2009)

Mai ji 
I too am wrong many times and have to apolagise, I see the apology as a way of saying Ive learnt something new and thank you. And may I thank you as Ive learnt many things from yourself, Especially how to be more Humble. Please try and read Jasvinders books they will have you sobbing from the first chapter till the last, they make you want to stand up and really fight for womens rights.
Tony


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Oct 11, 2009)

I just read an article about the clergy and domestic violence.  Seems we're not the only community in denial, eh?

D.C. Area Clergy Urged to Shine a Light on Domestic Abuse - washingtonpost.com


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## spnadmin (Oct 11, 2009)

Mai ji

Family violence crosses all cultural and economic boundaries. Every religion is plagued and some religions do not clearly and adamantly confront its evils. This is in part because the scriptures make woman subservient to man, or even less. And in part because the source culture may even support violence irrespective of the religous teachings themselves.

Sikhism speaks loud and clear as a religion -- "Why Call Her Bad?" She gave birth to kings, she gave birth to you. It is not Sikhism but cultural habits. A single negative feature of culture can be hard to erase without seeming to do damage to all of one's personal identity. Just my theory on that.

We need to create a bulleed list. And then we need to go into a huddle and have a meeting to talk about what an advocacy sub-forum should include and how to design it. I can't do it now because of other threads now at boiling point.


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## tony (Oct 12, 2009)

Jasvinders Fight isnt just about domestic violence. Its about cultural habits from Asia, Its about the abuse both men and women suffer when they refuse an arranged marriage. her book tells how they are locked up, beaten and even murdered if they refuse. If they run away they are disowned, some tracked down and it tells of the treatment they get when they are found. Most of the cases are of muslims, but not all. In the cases relating to Sikhs its not so much of violence, more the disownment that causes the problem. But in every case there is one underlying reason for what ever treatment they receive and thats family Honour, IZZAT. To disown one of your family, to deny their very existence, to tell your own child you are dead in their eyes, would some one please tell where the honour is in that. To care more about what some else thinks of you than what your own child thinks of you, To pressurise  your own child in to marrying someone theyve never met and because they refuse dishing out that sort of mental cruelty, is that what honours all about. the worst thing about it is its mainly the so called religious ones that do it the Keshdharis, the honourable turban wearers. Where in our religion in the SGGS does it say that thats the way to treat a fellow human being. Honour equals pride , Pride equals ego. Ego is one of the five thieves. Most of these forced marriages is for the money or status that goes with them, Both are maya. Want to help stop cruelty then start at the Gurdwara. stand up and tell these people that they are wrong, tell them of the dishonour they bring to our religion, tell them how against the teachings of our Guru jis it is. Lets not look at other religions till it stops in ours. Want to help, then stop looking at the girl who left home to marry for love as a ****, stop talking about them as low lives whispering and gossiping, Start treating the daughters as equals to your sons, what he can do then so should she. stamp out the Punjabi culturalism thats never left our religion, Do what the Guru jis said to do, Treat all as equals reguardless
Tony


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## kds1980 (Oct 12, 2009)

Dear tony

Do you even know how much extreme pressure is put on on sikh boys so they should not cut their kesh.Brainwashing,emotional blackmail ,Threats to not to talk to them etc.The 90% turbans you see on young sikh men in urban cities is because of this pressure.

So don't turn this into boy vs girl issue.In India boys are expected to choose career which their parents want,marry the girl of their parents choice and then take care of their older parents.

incase of Girls they are expected to marry the man which their parents choose.Any type of voilation by Boy or girl could lead to disowning

I am sorry but this is Indian culture and this is the way they are living their lives.There is nothing  Boy vs Girl in this


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## tony (Oct 12, 2009)

Kanwardeeep Ji
The first line of my post refers to both sex's. As for Indian culture wasnt that what Guru jis tried to change. Its up to the people who are at the top of our religion to stand up and say its wrong for both sex's to be forced into any thing against their will, including wearing a turban. I personally cant understand how any one can disown their own flesh and blood for something like this. And I know its not just the men who apply this pressure, both sex's play there part, Still doesnt make it right. Still shouldnt be practised in our religion.
Tony


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## kds1980 (Oct 12, 2009)

tony said:


> Kanwardeeep Ji
> The first line of my post refers to both sex's. As for Indian culture wasnt that what Guru jis tried to change. Its up to the people who are at the top of our religion to stand up and say its wrong for both sex's to be forced into any thing against their will, including wearing a turban. I personally cant understand how any one can disown their own flesh and blood for something like this. And I know its not just the men who apply this pressure, both sex's play there part, Still doesnt make it right. Still shouldnt be practised in our religion.
> Tony



Tony ji

This thread this thread is about Kaur power that's why I stopped discussing in it because it will Derail the thread and long posts about other issues will be discussed.The only reason I replied because it mentioned about  Discrimination

What is right what is wrong is quite bigger  and another topic and require bigger discussion.


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## spnadmin (Oct 12, 2009)

Actually tony ji  - I think you are making a relevant point. Culture may drive people to move in one direction. Religion may urge them in another direction. Sikhism both in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Bhai Gurdas and its history claim equality for women with men. Patriarchy, in India or anywhere else, do the opposite. So it almost seems as if Sikhism is in conflict with the culture where it sprang up-- India. Almost a shock!  But then was that not always the case? Was not/Has not Sikhism always been in conflict with cultural oppression (Muslim Turks and Persians, Brahminism, the English raj, the mahants, and of course there is 1984). 


It was a Sikh who said this, ਇਹੁ ਤਨੁ ਧਰਤੀ ਬੀਜੁ ਕਰਮਾ ਕਰੋ ਸਲਿਲ ਆਪਾਉ ਸਾਰਿੰਗਪਾਣੀ ॥
  eihu than dhharathee beej karamaa karo salil aapaao saaringapaanee ||
   Make this body the field, and plant the seed ofgood actions. Water it with the Name of the Lord, who holds all the world in His Hands.

It is not easy.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Oct 12, 2009)

And, of course, Narayanjot ji comes in with a word of sanity!

Yes, Sikhi, in its true, pure form does go against Indian culture in many ways.  

Without getting deeply into the subject, my observation is that in Indian culture, the primary force in a person's life is the group, in this case, the family.  The welfare of the family is paramount and the individual is expected to put that ahead of their own wishes and desires.  In the West, it is the opposite.  The individual's wants and desires are the primary force and the welfare of the family is secondary, if considered at all.

There is bad and good in both systems.  I think we should try for a happy medium.  Not easy, but little about being a Sikh is easy.

As for izzat, as I said earlier, that should be put into a rocket and shot into the sun where it would be destroyed forever.

:ice:


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## spnadmin (Oct 12, 2009)

Here is a list that I put together after analyzing the posts where suggestions were made. I do not recommend ranking them for this reason. Some of these items may not seem as important as others. But they are more manageable as first steps toward a larger goal. They can can be addressed more quickly, and will have a cummulative effect if implemented as a group of issues. And we don't want to lose momentum. Tackling something huge like stopping men from beating their wives is very difficult to effect immediately. But beginning the process of educating women and men is something we can do right away.



Advocate for participation of women at all levels of Gurdwara seva, including performance of kirtan at Harimandir Sahib
Become advocates for changing laws that are ineffective, fostering new laws when they are needed, and enforcing existing laws when they are not being  enforced
Become an online portal for women and men where they have access to webinars, articles, and other information that raises awareness of abuse and discrimination against women
Become an online portal where women and families can gain access to information about services and advocacy
 Campaign against female foeticide
Change negative attitudes about women who excel in work, at school, in settings outside the home
Educate women about their status, helping them understand that  they themselves are not aware that they are in a bad situation; Build their confidence to seek help and raise their awareness of how to get the services they need
Educate women and men to recognize abuse at home and in relationships by sharing stories, case studies, videos, and articles that bring them to understand that there are other ways of relating that are positive
Encourage women and girls to learn self-defense skills (e.g., Gatka) to protect themselves but also to build their self-esteem
Help women understand that they in no way “caused” or are responsible for physical abuse, but that they are the victims of another’s uncontrollable anger
Disseminate information about bullying
Raise awareness of community protective services that are available, and foster confidence in women who are being abused to use these services
Raise awareness that being abused is not shameful
Teach newly-weds the signs and symptoms of abusive relationships
Now I think the next step is to take each idea and brainstorm 2 or 3 or more strategies that we can put into action with our current resources. This is how we build sustainability and capacity. Once we begin to see evidence of success from these early stages, we will be in a better position to convince others to provide resources so we can do more ambitious things.

Please forgive me for being so bossy.


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## spnadmin (Oct 12, 2009)

I just had to post this quote from the thread just published on Ashvinder Kundan Singh...:welcome:

"There are those who wait for the world to change. and then there are those who put their strengths into action to revolutionize their lives and the environment around them. Their dreams become their driving force, as they take the world by storm and revise the way we think."


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## Admin (Oct 12, 2009)

Wonderful Narayanjot ji!!  Thanks for taking your precious time out and doing the most concise synopsis and inspired by your enthusiasm, SPN now has just now owned kaurpower.com... this website will be used to implement all of your efforts in a more visible and systematic way. We will have this website up and running in a week's time with waheguru's grace.


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## spnadmin (Oct 13, 2009)

Actually, we are blessed that you Aman ji are always there to stand behind us and make ideas become reality.

I am not joking.


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## harbansj24 (Oct 13, 2009)

Narayanjot ji and Mai ji, 

With your permission may I add that Kaur Power only for those who stand up, own up and want to be counted as Kaurs. As kanwardeep ji had pointed out earlier, this tribe is rapidly depleting!


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## Astroboy (Oct 13, 2009)

YouTube - Simran - Waheguru naam simran by sikh kids


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## spnadmin (Oct 13, 2009)

Too beautiful and an Ardaas is what we need to follow it -- all the events too much without a blessing.


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## simpy (Oct 13, 2009)

harbansj24 said:


> ............may I add that Kaur Power only for those who stand up, own up and want to be counted as Kaurs. As kanwardeep ji had pointed out earlier, this tribe is rapidly depleting!


 
In my humble opinion.. 
Those who stand up for themselves have the same jyot as the ones who don't.... so why differntiate???????? 
AND you know who dont stand up actually are the ones who need more help. They are the ones who lack courage/oppurtunity/knowledge/support...... A girl who knows to speak for herself---will find her way out of any trouble sooner or later(many times even without any body's support)...............but the one who can't is the one who need support/knowledge/oppurtunity/courage from the point zero.........and we should not neglect them at any cost..............as if they stay neglected, this social evil will never come to an end, doesn't matter what we do..............

all kaurs(women) deserve to be counted as kaurs..........it is the family and social setup that make them the way they are... they are humans... just like you and me and others... 


Guru Ji says-- ਨ ਕੋਈ ਸੂਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ਹੀਣਾ ਸਭ ਪ੍ਰਗਟੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰੀ n koee soor n koee heenaa sabh pragattee joth thumhaaree (panna 916)


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## kds1980 (Oct 13, 2009)

> Those who stand up for themselves have the same jyot as the ones who don't.... so why differntiate????????



The Questions is not of differentiation The question is of the concept of equality.As I said earlier sikh community never recognised the acheivements and contribuitions of clean shaven sikh men then why should community recognise acheivements of sikh women that are non practicing.If we do this then we are giving special treatment to women and that is not at all equality

My personal views are That sikh community should maintain  One rule if it wants to promote equality.I don't have problem in either way


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## simpy (Oct 13, 2009)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> The Questions is not of differentiation The question is of the concept of equality.As I said earlier sikh community never recognised the acheivements and contribuitions of clean shaven sikh men then why should community recognise acheivements of sikh women that are non practicing.If we do this then we are giving special treatment to women and that is not at all equality
> 
> My personal views are That sikh community should maintain One rule if it wants to promote equality.I don't have problem in either way


 
Thanks for the argument.


In my humble opinion-- If that is the case.... Women I am talking about need way much more help than clean shaven achievers. I mean these achievers had some support/knowledge/courage/// to do something--(you need all these qualities and oppurtunities to become an achiever of some kind/any kind)........... Then these women who are lacking all these qualities and oppurtunities--Need Extra Extra Help......... Thanks

And as a True Sikh-- one doesn't limit himself/herslf to just Sikh or sehajdhari or any other class-- A true Sikh does it for the humanity at large. Thanks again.


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## simpy (Oct 13, 2009)

By the way Kanwardeep Singh Ji...........you are a member of this forum... And I am sure nobody here stops you from glorifying the achievements of clean shaven Sikh men.... I am 100% sure. are they stopping you????????


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 13, 2009)

harbansj24 said:


> Narayanjot ji and Mai ji,
> 
> With your permission may I add that Kaur Power only for those who stand up, own up and want to be counted as Kaurs. As kanwardeep ji had pointed out earlier, this tribe is rapidly depleting!




Harbans ji,

Guru Fateh.

I beg to differ with you what you mentioned above. Actually it is the opposite. Kaurs who are not able to stand up on their own need real help, others are capable of helping themselves. History is its proof. When the women and girls were kidnapped from the Hindu families by the Mughals, of not any fault of their own, were saved by the brave Sikhs who followed the teachings of the Gurus.

Our Gurus sacrificed their lives for the down trodden. They gave us the name, the *Peace Warriors* for that only reason, to protect and uplift those who are not capable of doing that by themselves.

In closing, I would like to say that it our duty as we men are self proclaimed machos  of Sikhi to give women a hand and uplift them as our equals, not in just words but in deeds because we all come from a woman. Gurbani tells us that.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Astroboy (Oct 13, 2009)

YouTube - Award winning , funny Indian ad on eve teasing for AAJ TAK


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## spnadmin (Oct 13, 2009)

simpy ji and Tejwant ji

I agree with you and am so grateful that you have expressed these ideas. Our big challenge right now is to figure out how to achieve access to those women who lack confidence and skills. How do we reach out to them on the Internet? Many of them are so overwhelmed in their lives and so barricaded from communication with other ways of living that they may not be aware of this effort. Let's keep on with the goal of pulling together for them.


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## kds1980 (Oct 13, 2009)

simpy said:


> Thanks for the argument.
> 
> 
> In my humble opinion-- If that is the case.... Women I am talking about need way much more help than clean shaven achievers. I mean these achievers had some support/knowledge/courage/// to do something--(you need all these qualities and oppurtunities to become an achiever of some kind/any kind)........... Then these women who are lacking all these qualities and oppurtunities--Need Extra Extra Help......... Thanks
> ...



Surinder kaur ji

I think you have misinterpretted my post nowhere i said that women  that need help should not be helped if they are not practicising kaurs.The only discussion is taking place is here is about portrayal.The women that need help should be helped whether are practising kaurs,Non practising or even non sikhs


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## kds1980 (Oct 13, 2009)

simpy said:


> By the way Kanwardeep Singh Ji...........you are a member of this forum... And I am sure nobody here stops you from glorifying the achievements of clean shaven Sikh men.... I am 100% sure. are they stopping you????????



The question is not about me Its about entire sikh community how they take it.Let me show you an example

From Rags to Riches | The Langar Hall

The above is a story of a sikh man who is very successful in business man
but he has abandoned his sikh identity and you can easily judge the reaction of sikh community by reading the majority of comments


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Oct 13, 2009)

I read and wrote my comment there.  It might surprise those of you who know me.  I know it surprised me.  



> My first reaction is sadness and anger. Is this what our shaheeds died for? Members of my immediate family achieved shaheedi in Delhi 1984; they could have survived had they shed their "visible Sikh" identity.
> 
> But looking beyond anger, I realise that some people are stronger than others. Being different, being picked on and bullied year after year takes its toll. As Sikhs, we are called upon to be strong and courageous. Some are and some are not. Seeing this young man with a dirty-shaved face and shorn hair makes me sad, but I feel I have no right to judge him.
> 
> Now, had he been a Khalsa, my statement would be completely different.  Khalsa are called upon to be more...


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## simpy (Oct 13, 2009)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> The question is not about me Its about entire sikh community how they take it.Let me show you an example
> 
> From Rags to Riches | The Langar Hall
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the reply Kanwardeep Singh Ji.. 

There are many cases like this-- not just a Sikh..can be a black, a jews,...many we can disscuss... but does it tell us that we should avoid all those women who need help????? just because some people think this way........ 

By reading those negative comments it shows how narrow minded all those people are....I dont consider them true Sikhs.....Where in Guru Granth sahib Guru Ji is telling us to be tip top with the outer identity.. no where... A True Sikh sees Guru Ji's face in every face...  shaved head or grown hair-- nothing adds to any Spiritual advancement.....

i dont see anything wrong in that boy.. and this kind of narrow mindedness which they are showing can only change if we stop classifying people based on outer identity... 

anybody's outer identity is of no importance .. is it????
after knowing that someone is living a life like hell in my vicinity-- i have to think a way to get him/her out of that situation.. doesn't matter what it takes... Nothing should stop us from helping such people...

About Glorifying other people -- if some has a problem-- let them have it..........it cannot decrease the greatness of ones hardwork and success....only person at loss is the nindak...no one else...


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## harbansj24 (Oct 14, 2009)

Simpy ji, Tejwant ji and Narayanjot ji,

It is good that you are talking underprivileged women needing a helping hand. There can be no disagreement on that.

But I was talking about a different set of privileged women who were erstwhile Kaurs and have now chosen to drop the suffix (because it is less fashionable?). These women advertise in Matrimonial columns in India as "....wanted a clean shaven, turban less Sikh boy for a highly educated broadminded Sikh girl......." and this trend is growing at an alarming rate. They cannot be part of any Kaur power whatsoever.


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## simpy (Oct 14, 2009)

harbansj24 said:


> Simpy ji, Tejwant ji and Narayanjot ji,
> 
> It is good that you are talking underprivileged women needing a helping hand. There can be no disagreement on that.
> 
> But I was talking about a different set of privileged women who were erstwhile Kaurs and have now chosen to drop the suffix (because it is less fashionable?). These women advertise in Matrimonial columns in India as "....wanted a clean shaven, turban less Sikh boy for a highly educated broadminded Sikh girl......." and this trend is growing at an alarming rate. They cannot be part of any Kaur power whatsoever.


 
Harbansj24 ji,

in my humble opinion no practice makes a woman less of a human.. if one is in trouble and need help.. must be provided with the same manner-- Sikh/non-Sikh/other/// irrespective of her choices
These and any other type of Classifications are a selfish brain work...it is not a pure heart's desire..
Humanatarian work is not done just by brain-- heart is fully involved too.. and a pure heart doesn't look for--white/black/sikh/muslim/a sikh girl not having kaur as last name/a sikh girl with hair cut/a sikh girl looking for a clean shaven partner//// a pure heart see Guru's face in every face...

regarding the girls from sikh families looking for cleanshaven guys---- have you ever thought --why they desire so?? and have you tried to help them get over this classification... if you did.. what problems did you face in the process of winning their heart??? Please share.... beacuse this can help a lot the Sikh boys and girls as well as their parents...

A few questions for all the Sangat---

Why do you think girls born in Sikh families dont want 'kaur' in their name??
Why are the girls born in sikh families looking for clean-shaven partners??
Why are we unable to convince girls born in Sikh families marry turbaned Sikhs??
Why girls born in Sikh families cut their hair??


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## simpy (Oct 14, 2009)

Kaur power should be used to help people considering them humans first-- in my humble opinion
And if we keep this power resreved for a certain set of women--- we are not even close to be considered our Guru Ji's followers..............


Guru Ji is telling us--
Ek Pita Ekas Ke Hum Barik.....
Sabh Jot Teri JagJeevana.....
Jo Jo deesay tera roop........


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## harbansj24 (Oct 14, 2009)

> regarding the girls from sikh families looking for cleanshaven guys---- have you ever thought --why they desire so?? and have you tried to help them get over this classification... if you did.. what problems did you face in the process of winning their heart??? Please share.... beacuse this can help a lot the Sikh boys and girls as well as their parents...
> 
> A few questions for all the Sangat---
> 
> ...


?         


Simpy ji,

Before the explanations to your questions can be attempted, lets understand that the term "Kaur Power" is understood to be referring to women having a surname Kaur and by virtue of that empowering themselves to great deeds. Did not Dasam Pita make Singhs so that they are different from other people. While empowering Singhs to do good for the mankind irrespective whether they were Singhs or not, he did have harsh things to say for "Patits" or apostates. Similarly Kaurs are empowered to do good without discrimination but what to say of those who choose to surrender their priviledge?

Now comming to your questions. There cannot be any single answer.  
Many girls do not want kaur in their name because by superficial education, they associate with a religious practice and religions are on the decline anyway throughout the world and so thet have no use for them.

Similary they do not find any use in their partners keeping kesh, because then they look different and retrograde and not upwardly mobile. They also consider, keeping kesh as a restriction on their freedom of expression and creativity! For example people aspiring to become actors or actresses!

Answers to the next questions can be in answers to the previous questions.

Some smart people always come up with the standard and oft heard question "I fully respect SGGS.  But where is it given that Sikhs have to keep kesh?" Or where is the evidence that Guru Gobind Singh ji ordained us to to keep 5ks?

Comming to your question that do many of try to counsel. Obvously many of us do try to counsel  only persons whom we may be familiar with. Sometimes we are successful and sometimes not. Most of times the answers we get are on lines given above.


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## simpy (Oct 14, 2009)

harbansj24 said:


> ?
> 
> 
> Simpy ji,
> ...


 
harbansj24 ji,

Thanks for the reply...

In my humble opinion--First of all one doesn't become a 'Sikh' by taking birth in a Sikh family.. Dasam Pita made Singhs not because he wanted them to appear different.. He made them to help and serve the whole humanity and be humble at the same time.. A sikh or singh whatever you call-- is supposed to follow Guru Ji become His servant and stay humble at the same time .. So is for kaur.. Being humble does not mean to appear different.. or dealing different people differently based on their religion or way of life..

Guru Ji Himself taught us by example through 10 human lives-- and has given the whole humanity a treasure -- the written Word.. So the whole complete lesson theory alongwith practical.............Any human can learn it and live it--- He has posed no restrictions on any human...

Basic Human Nature-- we learn from our own experiences and other human examples around us. We follow what makes us feel good and protected... 

I think that we-the socalled Sikh community- are unable to convince these girls and boys the significance of outer appearance and the inner quest........... There is not much out there to make them feel good about all that... They seldom see people whose outer appearance match their deeds........... They are not at fault, they are what their families and the society made them... 

So if we want positive response we need to take them in confidence, shouldn't ignore them.
We should become good examples so that they follow our footsteps.
First we need to become good enough and then We should walk together taking them along so that they can see the goodness in us and get impressed enough to follow....
By distancing from them we will only create more distance--in my humble opinion.....

What is the use of name-- kaur or singh-- If you are not one?????
What is the use of outer appearance if thoughts and deeds dont match it?????

In my humble opinion--
First become a Kaur then add kaur to your name
First become a Singh then add Singh to your name
First become a Sikh-- outer apperance is going to follow itself, it will just happen...


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## simpy (Oct 14, 2009)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Here is a list that I put together after analyzing the posts where suggestions were made. I do not recommend ranking them for this reason. Some of these items may not seem as important as others. But they are more manageable as first steps toward a larger goal. They can can be addressed more quickly, and will have a cummulative effect if implemented as a group of issues. And we don't want to lose momentum. Tackling something huge like stopping men from beating their wives is very difficult to effect immediately. But beginning the process of educating women and men is something we can do right away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I humbly suggest to complete this--'List Project' let us do it in a seperate thread...
the related posts should be moved there....

I think we should get productive and do the needfull.......just a suggestion to the people concerned....


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## spnadmin (Oct 14, 2009)

simpy ji, I agree and I will do that.
*
The new thread has been created - posts relevant have been copied over - See Kaur Power: Plans for an advocacy project at SPN.
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/community-out-reach/27071-kaur-power-plans-advocacy-project-spn.html
*


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## simpy (Oct 15, 2009)

Thanks Narayanjot Ji...


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## spnadmin (Oct 16, 2009)

*Another thread has been created to house recent conversations regarding attitudes toward keep hair and dastar in relation to Sikh identity.

The new thread is Are We Making Lame Excuses at this link
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/27097-are-we-making-lame-excuses.html
*
Thanks, Narayanjot Kaur


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## spnadmin (Oct 20, 2009)

*Daredevil Rupy Kaur Challenges Fellow Britons NEWS REPORTS*

*Daredevil Rupy Kaur Challenges Fellow Britons NEWS REPORTS*


  A Brooklands based daredevil is about to prove she has a head for heights - by doing a 14,500 foot skydive. 

  Wheelchair user, Sikh-Briton Rupy Kaur, is taking the plunge to raise funds for the anti racism organisation _Searchlight_ and its _Hope Not Hate_ campaign. 

  The move by Rupy, who is a disability activist, comes amid a recent surge in violent demonstrations by racist and anti-immigration groups in towns and cities with large non-white populations across Britain. 

  Rupy is particularly critical of the anti-immigration British National Party (BNP), which is the midst of a major controversy over a decision by BBC television to invite its leader to participate in a popular current affairs panel discussion show called _Question Time_ this week. 

  "When I first heard of the BNP, I thought nobody would be that stupid as to vote for them. There have been many wars and nobody would want to incite hatred, would they?" Rupy says on the _Hope Not Hate_ website.  
  "The sad fact is there are people who support them." 

  The BNP has more than 50 elected representatives in local authorities all over Britain and two in the European Parliament. 

  Rupy Kaur said she comes from a family of fighters for justice: her grandfather had to fight prejudice and racism as a ragman in order to become a successful businessman. 

  Born with cerebral palsy, Rupy Kaur started her education in a special needs school but authorities were forced to admit her to a mainstream school following a campaign by her uncle. 

  Although she did not have a note-taker in lessons and was considered to be a ‘health and safety hazard' - which meant she could not stay back in school without a support worker - she scored three A-grades in her 12th standard exams. 

  After finishing school, social services advised her to stay at home to do a ‘Learn Direct' course but her cousin helped her "battle with them in order for me to study at Manchester" - one of Britain's best universities. 

   "If you are proud to be British, then I believe that you should stand against fascism," said Rupy Kaur. 

   "This jump is a major thing for me. 

  "It would be awesome to know that people are supporting me and this cause so get your hands in your pockets ... by doing so you'll be making a positive difference in the world." 

   The 22-year-old psychology graduate will be doing a tandem skydive at Grange over Sands (United Kingdom) on December 6, 2009. 

 "I'll be with someone - so that person will be opening the parachute. All I have to do is scream," she joked. 

  The skydive will be the culmination of a long standing ambition and she decided to do it after talking to a friend who had also taken part in one. 
  She has received the full support of her family who will attend the event, near Morecambe. 

   "My family are just hoping the parachute opens. They all think I've got a screw loose," she laughed. 

  Rupy Kaur will receive training on the day and said she hopes her daring feat will inspire other people with disabilities to take part in extreme sports. 

   "Just because you're disabled, it doesn't mean you can't participate in extreme sports. Obviously, you've got to think about the pros and cons but it shouldn't hold you back," she said. 

   * _Anyone interested in sponsoring Rupy Kaur may do so by visiting /www.hopenothate.org.uk/skydive/ _*　*

*Rupy Kaur - Bio
*Rupy Kaur completed her degree in Psychology at The University of Manchester, in 2008 gaining a 2:1. At university, she was founder and chairwoman of the ABLED society, which was set up to enhance disabled students' experiences at university. Following her achievements, she was elected as the Open Place Representative on the Disabled Students' Committee for the National Union of Students. Her role involves raising disability issues, including accessible transport. Rupy is also a member of SKILL, the National Bureau of Students with Disabilities. She was appointed member of the Disabled Persons' Transport Advisory Committee in July 2009.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Oct 22, 2009)

Gurmit Kaur said:


> I really appreciate what you have written,  there is no other outlet, I have seen that addresses the issues that we face as mothers of Sikh children.




Gurmit Kaur Ji,

You might enjoy a poem written by Preeti Kaur ji, called where ever it is dark - a poem for Sikh children, which I think really hits the nail over the head.  I have posted it in my blog, at THE ROAD TO KHALISTAN: Where Ever It Is Dark - An Illustrated Poem

Please feel free to bring up these problems.  I'm sure those of us who have faced them would be relieved to share our experiences.

:ice:


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## kds1980 (Oct 27, 2009)

*Now, Sikh Women Also Guard India's Borders*

Now, Sikh Women Also Guard India's Borders 

by RAMANINDER K. BHATIA




Every afternoon, Sukhwinder Kaur and her mother sat down to watch the afternoon soap in their sp{censored}ly furnished Hoshiarpur home but now that seems like a memory from another lifetime. 

Though Sukhwinder and the other girls in her Khasa camp have been given a TV set, they are no longer interested in all the twists and turns of the family melodrama. The 22-year-old has plenty more to keep track of these days. Part of India's Border Security Force's first female contingent of border guards, one of her main responsibilities is guarding the treacherous Indo-Pak border at Punjab's Attari, and ensuring there is no smuggling of contraband. 

"It feels different to have such a huge responsibility," Sukhwinder says, brushing a speck off her crisp uniform. "Life has changed for all of us. So have the priorities and notions of fear and safety. The country is all we have time to care for." 

The women took charge in September after receiving training in weapon handling, intelligence gathering, border management, unarmed combat, frisking and guard duties. 

They rise at 5.30 am and, after a quick breakfast - usually rotis and subzi at the Other Ranks mess - rush to collect their weapons from the armoury . They then report for duty and are ferried to their respective posts. After an entire day of checking and frisking, they reach the Attari border checkpost in the evening to report for crowd control duty during the Beating of the Retreat ceremony. Back on campus by 7.30 pm, most are ready to hit the sack after spending a little quality time with their fellows. 

"Who has the energy or interest to watch TV serials after all this?" asks Amandeep Kaur, another recruit from among the 640 women who graduated this year from the BSF's subsidiary training camp at Kharkan, Punjab, after a 36-week preparatory period. 

Though they took positions at the forward post to a tumultuous welcome from society and the government, followed, of course, by a media frenzy, most are still adjusting to a rough job at the 500 km-long border. A majority of them are barely out of their teens, excited as ever to wear a new piece of jewellery or get their hands painted with henna. 

The first shock came days after they began work. Four rockets fired from Pakistan landed in nearby villages, forming deep craters. Many had never seen such a thing before. There was more. Soon after the missile incident, a clutch of vernacular papers carried stories, apparently quoting a Pakistani news site, that insinuated the women had been drafted for the pleasure of the male soldiers. 

The motive was all too clear, but the bullet missed its target. "Those were attempts to demoralise us," Sukhdeep Kaur says. "But they failed miserably. If they so much as try to eye our border, our guns are ready." 

As she frisks women farmers queuing up at gate number 112 in Daoke village, Amritsar, Sukhdeep orders one woman to let her hair down, and asks another to take off her shoes. "We have to do this," she explains. "It is easy to hide a small phone or a SIM card and get it across the border," she adds. 

The BSF has deployed women guards to improve security checks on the border, as women are being used increasingly to smuggle narcotics. 

As an afterthought, Sukhdeep says, "The nearest Pakistani village, Kot Jaimal Singh, is barely a kilometre away from where we stand. You can even see farmers across the border tending to their almost-ripe crop. There is nothing to suggest these are two different countries. Even the height of the paddy on both sides is the same." 

But it's not just the women who have to make adjustments. Their male counterparts too are busy getting used to women in their midst. 

"The men went through a reorientation programme and were briefed before the women were inducted. They are quite mindful of the women's privacy while treating them as colleagues . Fortunately, nothing amiss has been reported till now," said Inspector General (BSF) Himmat Singh. 

If there is anxiety in some quarters, there is reassurance from others. "The women are disciplined and eager to work for their country. How can we not acknowledge and respect that?" says the assistant commandant, Aman Tirkey. "They are like our daughters and sisters. And most of us, whether male or female, have come from a similar background." 

Apart from the crush and grind of daily work that unites them, there is something else that all the women agree on, being the first lot of women to guard India's borders is a matter of huge pride. "I have two younger brothers, both still in school, and my father is a farmer who tills three acres of land in Mansa," says Satveer Kaur. "I still remember what my father said the first time he saw me in my uniform. He said I was the eldest son. That meant everything to me. I don't mind the arduous patrolling anymore. I come from a place where girls have traditionally been considered inferior, even killed in the womb for a male child." 

Chirpy and bright, 20-year-old Rajwant Kaur from Gurdaspur insists she's got an even better compliment. A smile spreading across her pretty face, she says, "I met a child sometime ago at Raja Ka Pul village, a stone's throw from the last Indian railway station at Attari. She said she wanted to be like me, wear a uniform and carry a gun, when she grows up." 

　 

[Courtesy: Times of India] 

October 27, 2009


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## Admin (Dec 1, 2009)

*Kirpal Kaur: On The Silky Road*

Silk.    The mere mention of the word creates a vision of cascading softness and elegance, and entrepreneur Kirpal Kaur knows this natural fabric like the back of her hands. 
  "It's one of my favourite fabrics, beautiful, luxurious, and yes, it can make you feel like a million dollar person," she beams with pride.

This bespectacled mother of four has the kind of beauty that comes from having lived life to the fullest, of meeting challenges head on, of believing in herself and in the inherent goodness of people around her.

"I feel blessed in so many ways, being surrounded by good hearted people who believe in me and share my vision. That, coupled with hard work and my faith in God, paid off, " she says in a matter-of-fact tone. Being surrounded by bales of exotics laces and silk fabrics from various parts of the world is not unusual for this 66-year-old grandmother of 10.

She is, after all, the founder and the main driving force behind Gulati's Silk House, which is today one of the largest importers and retailers of fine silk fabric in Malaysia.

Starting out as a small retail shop in the heart of Kuala Lumpur about 40 years ago, the group now has 13 outlets throughout the country with more in the pipeline. Kirpal is one two women vying for the 2009 Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year (women) award. 

Never afraid of hard work, the soft-spoken Kirpal who is now the Chair of the family owed business, states quite plainly that she never gave up her dream of starting her own textile business when she married Manjeet Singh Gulati and relocated from Singapore, her birthplace, to Kuala Lumpur to be with her husband. 
  Kirpal Kaur, the eldest of seven siblings, had a head for the textile business having learnt it first hand from her textile merchant father.

She recalls a time when she and her husband put their textiles in their van, drove north and south, visiting wholesalers to convince them to buy materials on consignment.

"That was our routine one week a month," she says. "It was tedious but it paid off eventually." She opened an outlet in Semua House, and as business grew, eventually bought a shoplot on Jalan Tuanku Abdul Rahman, the only textile shop along that road. 

"It was a challenge juggling my roles as wife, raising my young family, and managing the business." When her husband fell seriously ill about eight years and eventually passed on, her second son, Pavitar, quit law studies to help. 

"Of course, I would have preferred that he complete his studies but he was adamant. Since he had set his heart on it I took him on board and taught him the trade."

Kirpal, who often accompanies her managers on a buying sessions overseas, beams with maternal pride when she says that with him on board, the business expanded and an upmarket segment began to take shape. So she opened Euro Moda to cater to this niche. Today it boasts royalty, politicians and the well-heeled among its customers.

Although the day-to-day running of the entire operation is left to her son, Kirpal still oversees the business. "Without my chop and signature, nothing moves!" she says, bursting into laughter.

On a more serious note she adds, "We consult each other on all major decisions and if it's viable, I give the green light. We may be a family concern but it is run professionally." 

Her daughter-in law, Jasleen Kaur (Pavitar's wife) is Executive Director and attends to their high-valued clients. 

Except for Wednesdays and Sundays which are devoted to the gurdwara, she's in the office everyday from 3pm. "My mornings are reserved for prayers, taking care of the household, spending time with my grandchildren and cooking for the family," she says.

Kirpal takes it upon herself to clear out the family's wardrobe regularly. "I've got this thing about rearranging and clearing wardrobes, including mine. Old and unused are donated, or we would run out of space to put the new outfits that I buy for every member of the family whenever I go overseas," says Kirpal, who enjoys shopping for costume jewellery, shoes and handbags.

She is also active in gurdwara activities, where she's often called to do kirtan. She also plays the harmonium and violin.

Her religious beliefs, she says, play a strong role in how she manages the family business. All her employees are treated as a family. Sometimes, she personally cooks for them. She gives much of her time and makes generous donations to worthy causes. 

As a member of the Sikh Welfare Society, she provides financial help to four poor families a year and helps in the annual week-long Sikh Youth Camp taking charge of cooking for close to 1,500 participants. 

"Keeping the kids well-fed with five meals a day is not an easy task. Can't serve the same things day in and out. They expect variety. But I enjoy cooking for anyone who appreciates a good meal," says Kirpal, who is in the midst of drawing up the menu.

Every year during Vaisakhi, the Sikh New Year, children of all races from several charity homes are invited to Gulati's and treated to high tea and entertainment.

"I have always believed in bringing good cheer to those around me. It may be old school but generosity and kindness will never go out of style. Ever."

*ENTREPRENEUR OF THE YEAR AWARD*

Kirpal Kaur and Datin Freida Pilus are the only nominees for the 2009 Ernst & Young Woman Entrepreneur of the Year Award. 
The Ernst & Young Entrepreneur Of The Year award programme was created in the US in 1986 to honour entrepreneurs who have created and sustained successful, growing businesses. The programme is now held in 50 countries with awards presented to over 900 of the world's most successful and innovative entrepreneurs.

In Malaysia, the programme was launched in 2002. The categories are Emerging Entrepreneur, Technology Entrepreneur, Master Entrepreneur and Woman Entrepreneur.

Finalists are assessed are judged on their entrepreneurial spirit, company's financial performance, strategic direction, global impact, innovation, personal integrity and influence.

Winners of the national Entrepreneur Of The Year awards from around the world are invited to the World Entrepreneur Of The Year Award celebration which will take place in May 2010 in Monte Carlo, Monaco. 
  　  
  [Courtesy: _New Sunday Times_]


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## spnadmin (Dec 1, 2009)

*Re: Kirpal Kaur: On The Silky Road*

This is the kind of person I have never been :}8-: and will always look up to. She is only one thing -- AMAZING. What goodness!


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## Astroboy (Dec 3, 2009)

*Re: Kirpal Kaur: On The Silky Road*

I have to agree with that because I often see her in sewa, kirtan and very poised whenever I visit Gurdwara Sahib Titiwangsa.:happy:


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## spnadmin (Dec 3, 2009)

*Re: Kirpal Kaur: On The Silky Road*

Yes, NamJap when I read her story I wondered if she was part of your Sangat. You are blessed to know her. She is blessed to know you. :happy:


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## spnadmin (Dec 22, 2009)

http://www.{censored}/news.php?news=8351
*
Royal Award bestowed on highest ranking Sikh policewoman in the West Midlands *


The highest ranking West Midlands Sikh policewoman, Shindo Kaur Barquer, has received a prestigious Royal Award.

She has been honoured with the ‘The Police Long Service and Good Conduct Medal’ which was instituted under the Royal Warrant by King George VI in 1951 and is awarded as a mark of the Sovereign’s appreciation of long and meritorious service rendered by members of the Police Forces of the United Kingdom. 

Chief Inspector Barquer has been Head of Resilience in the Operations Headquarters since April 2009; her responsibility includes ensuring West Midlands Police are able to respond effectively to the threats that face the organisation, along with those of the communities of West Midlands.

Under her supervision as Chief Inspector her leadership has enabled her team to establish close engagement with partner agencies

Joining the West Midlands Police Force at the age of 21, she  progressively worked her way up the ranks, a journey that has been challenging but rewarding for this British Sikh born in West Bromwich

Chief Inspector Barquer and has remained in the West Midlands, settling with her husband, Vijith Randeniya Chief Fire Officer of West Midlands Fire Service in  Birmingham. 

Chief Inspector Barquer spoke to us about her award, she said:

“I feel really proud to receive such recognition for my contribution to policing’

“It was a fabulous awards ceremony; I had the chance to meet with some new recruits- it really took me back in time to 1987 when I joined’ 

“A career with the police service provides a real opportunity to service; to get involved in local community issues and I’m proud to have served all my service with West Midlands Police” said the proud and deserving award winner Chief Inspector Barquer

Chief Inspector Barquer is an active member of the West Midlands Local Resilience Forum; this includes partnership involvement at every phase ‘planning, preparing and responding’ to any major incidents. 

This policewoman is passionate about her success and her future and says “the challenge is to keep making a positive contribution to local policing’.

‘I like to aim high but to remain focused and to believe in myself. My career aspiration is to take command of a local policing unit as the Chief Superintendent and to make a real difference to the local community that my family and I am part of’.    

The attestation of new recruits and the presentation of Long Service & Good conduct medals took place at WMP Lord Knights Suite police Sports & Conference Centre on Thursday 10th December 2009 

Award ceremony attended by Chief Constable Mr Chris Sims and Bishop Derek Webley Chairman of the Police Authority


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## spnadmin (Dec 26, 2009)

Kaur Foundation signs educational partnership with Maryland Public School System | SikhNet
*Kaur Foundation signs educational partnership with Maryland Public School System*


												                            December 24th, 2009                                  




​ 

Ellicott City, MD --- A pioneering partnership with the Kaur Foundation will build understanding and appreciation for the Sikh culture, customs, and perspectives in Howard County Public School classrooms and communities. The partnership was formalized with an official signing at the Waterside Restaurant in the Sheraton Columbia Town Center Hotel on Monday.

This is a proud and pioneering partnership with an entire County school district. The agreement drawn up has some wonderful new direction for the schools with the objective of exchanging resources and opportunities to spread awareness of the customs, religion, and cultural heritage of the Sikhs in the classrooms... including an understanding of “what teachers should know about the Sikhs...”

Under the terms of the partnership, the Kaur Foundation and the Howard County Public School System will exchange resources and opportunities to spread awareness of the Sikh cultural heritage in the classroom and community. The Kaur Foundation donated copies of their DVD titled Cultural Safari, an engaging introduction to Sikh culture, to each school media center. The Kaur Foundation will provide additional educational resources depicting Sikh customs, religion, geography, and history, for teachers to augment social studies lessons, and to serve as a resource for staff regarding the needs and concerns of students and families of Sikh heritage.

At 8:30am, Mirin Phool, President of the Kaur Foundation joined Ellen Flynn Giles, Vice Chairman Howard County Board of Education; John Krownapple coordinator of Cultural Proficiency for the HCPSS; and Joan Fox of the HCPSS Partnerships office signed the formal partnership agreement. 




The Kaur Foundation works to foster an understanding between the Sikh American community and society at large. In projecting a positive Sikh identity, the organization builds community partnerships to promote understanding and acceptance of diversity.​ 

The July 2007 issue of Forbes magazine lists the Howard County Public School System among the top 10 public education school districts in the nation. The Howard County Public School System (Howard County Public School System) consistently ranks as Maryland’s top school district based on student performance.


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## dalbirk (Dec 28, 2009)

Gurmit kaur Ji ,
          Can you provide the links to those particular videos ? I tried but I could not find any of them with horrid comments .


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## spnadmin (Jan 3, 2010)

*Secret Life of Girls: BAVLEEN KAUR SAINI*



Secret Life of Girls: BAVLEEN KAUR SAINI - thestar.com

                     Leadership is important to Bavleen Kaur Saini. The 17-year-old is student council president at West Humber Collegiate, where she's in Grade 12, and the recent recipient of a YMCA Peace Medallion. An aspiring writer who reads her poetry at leadership camps and school assemblies, Saini is the second youngest in a family of five high-achieving daughters (her elder sisters are studying law, dentistry and law). "We have never let our parents feel the absence of a son," says Saini, whose parents work in factories, and who has a job in an after-school program at a community centre. She hopes to get a business degree.


*Is there any disadvantage tobeing a girl?*
    Absolutely. Coming from a family of five sisters, people doubted our abilities and skills. The disadvantage is that people don't take you seriously. In my school community, I see girls who don't think they are worth much. You have to work for respect as a girl.


*Are you a feminist?  *110 per cent. Without feminism there's nothing to fight for, to lead the way. Otherwise, we just cross our arms and accept what's coming. I don't belong in the kitchen.


*If you had a daughter what wouldyou wish for her?*
    Self-respect, self-love and happiness, having the strength to control what happens to you. 



*What are you passionate about?*
    My writing. I started in Grade 6. When I go on stage and read my poems, if I can change one person's life, I know my writing has meaning. 



*Why do you care about social justice?*

     Growing up, I heard stories about domestic violence and girls being taken advantage of by their boyfriends, and they didn't sit right. I write about that. 



*Whom do you look up to? *
    Definitely my mother, Surinder. Coming here from India, it was hard to adapt. I see her strength and her love.


*What's your most valuable possession?*
    If there was a fire in my house, and all the people were safe, I'd go back for my poems. My life is in them.


*Where does your confidence come from?*
    From other people's faith in me. When I write and people come to me and say thank you, I know I have the power to change the world.


*What's your greatest fear?*
    I think my greatest fear is disappointing my parents. I have made it my responsibility to ensure that my parents never drop their heads in shame. Not that they would, because they are very proud of my sisters and me. My fear is not being my best. Not for myself, but for my mom and dad.


*If you could change one thing about yourself, what would it be?*
    One of my problems is when I'm working with a team, not knowing how to step down. A good leader has to be a good follower. I'm working on the following.


*How is your girlhood different from your mother's?*
    At a very young age, my mother lost her father. She was expected to learn all household chores, and still finish school, though many others during her time weren't given the chance. My mother never had a job during her teenage years, whereas I have had numerous jobs.Every day, I am given opportunities to be successful whereas my mother didn't get all of those opportunities when she was my age.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jan 3, 2010)

Five daughters!  This sounds like Tevyah's family,eh?  I hope other families of Punjabi extraction take note of this family.  She's great.

A picture would be nice.:happykaur:


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## spnadmin (Jan 3, 2010)

Mai ji

I thought it was great too. But -- there was no pic that I recall. Let me look again.


*Yes ------- I was wrong. Let me post it.*


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## Admin (Apr 24, 2010)

Sikh-Aussie Ravneet Kaur: Simply Equal

by KAREN POH





A Heidelberg (Victoria, Australia) resident has beaten hundreds of hopefuls from Victoria to be selected to compete in the Mrs. Australia national finals in July.

Ravneet Kaur, 30, said she was "over the moon" when she found out she had received the nod.

Ravneet, who runs her own charity, Simply Equal, to support disadvantaged young Sikh and Indian women in India and Australia, said she joined because of the competition's charity focus.

As part of the Mrs. Australia pageant, participants raise money for Women in Need, a charity organisation dedicated to the personal empowerment of women and assisting in the recovery of women who have been the victims of domestic abuse.

"Growing up in an Sikh/ Indian culture in Australia and having to balance values from both cultures created a lot of hardship, and those experiences made me think of helping other women," Ravneet Kaur said. "It's important for women to have that support network, and I'd like to reach out to the women in the Heidelberg community."

The winner will go on to compete in the Mrs. Globe pageant in Greece.

Ravneet is preparing to hold her third fundraising event for Women in Need through a pub trivia night in Richmond, and she is seeking sponsorships, donations and helping hands to make it a success.

_More information: http://www.simplyequal.org _

April 22, 2010


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## Admin (May 5, 2010)

*Sikh Art Therapist Rapinder Kaur*

Therapeutic art arrives in Dufferin
Adam Martin-Robbins


Helping through art:. Registered art therapist Rapinder Kaur opened a practice, Art as Therapy, at the Harmony Health Clinic on Highway 9 last fall. Kaur specializes in working with children and teens with a myriad of challenges including ADHD, anxiety, autism, depression and low self-esteem.

Those walking into Rapinder Kaur's office in the Harmony Health Clinic for the first time might think they've accidentally stepped into an artist's studio. After all it's stocked with paintbrushes, paint, markers and playdough. That's because, while she's not an artist, those tools are central to Kaur's work as a registered art therapist.

“It’s essentially psychotherapy but instead of just relying on vocal means, you’re using art as a medium,” she said. “What it doesn’t require is you to be an artist in the traditional sense.”

Kaur opened her local practice — Art as Therapy — at the clinic inside the ACTS fitness centre last September. Her clients use basic art materials such as clay, collage, paint and markers “in a freer, spontaneous way to express inner thoughts and feelings.”

“It works really well with children because it’s non-threatening,” Kaur said. “It’s a much more friendly way of working with children. … (Because) difficult feelings are often hard to express through words.”

In addition to young children, Kaur also works with teens and their families in a broad range of areas including anger issues, low self-esteem, ADHD, autism or Asperger’s.

She also works with families who are going through a divorce, as well as adults looking for a mental tune-up.

“We all have mental health (issues),” Kaur said. “In the way we think of looking at physical health — exercise, eating better foods — this can be seen as health for your mind.”

Kaur studied psychology in England and worked in a few facilities there before moving to Canada with her parents several years ago. When Kaur arrived in Ontario, she decided to specialize in art therapy.

That’s because when she worked with troubled teens in a psychiatric hospital in England, the kids hated almost all of their doctors, except the art therapist.

“It was a much more friendly way of working with them,” the 31-year-old said.

Kaur enrolled in the Toronto Art Therapy Institute, which was established in 1968 by Dr. Martin Fischer, who is one of the founding fathers of the field in Canada.

“It’s still a fairly new profession (in Canada),” she said. “It’s more established in the United Kingdom and the United States.”

Kaur, who also has a practice in Mississauga, set up shop locally — two days a week — after working with different organizations in Dufferin for about five years.

“I heard there was a real need to have a therapist that has a specialty in working with children and teens,” she said. “I’ve been working with youth and children for 10 years in a number of facilities.”

One of the issues Kaur sees cropping up among local youth is anxiety, which affects about 12 per cent of the younger population.

“People often think it’s ADHD or autism but it’s anxiety,” she said.

Among teens, Kaur said she also notices kids are struggling with a sense of identity.

“They’re thinking about the future and that can be really frightening for them,” she said. Sometimes the solution is to open up the lines of communication between parents and children, she added.

“Often there’s not that dialogue between parents and teens ... because of that there’s lots of behaviour, anger, anxiety,” Kaur said. “For teens, their brains are still developing and they need just as much guidance as when they are three, or four or five.”

A typical session begins with a warm-up activity to set the tone and then, depending on what the client is feeling, Kaur will provide some kind of art-based directive.

“After about 20 odd minutes, we will look at the art together and discuss it,” she explained. “What we’re really doing is trying to help the individual come to understand what it means for them. … There’s no judgment here. This isn’t an art class in the traditional sense.”

In addition to working with clients at her office, Kaur also conducts sessions at a number of local agencies including Family Transition Place (FTP) and Dufferin Child and Family Services.

Stephanie Robinson, a community counsellor at FTP, has been working with Kaur for about three years in the shelter’s Peaceful Families program. She says Kaur has been able to connect with some of the children in the program because of her methods and her approach.

“A lot of what she does is with kids who’ve experienced a lot of conflict in their homes,” Robinson said. “(Art therapy) gives them another way of letting out what’s going on and helps to open up some of the barriers.

“It’s Rapinder’s personality. … She’s got a very level-headed approach and she’s very direct. She has a way of asking questions non-judgmentally that opens up so much more. She works really well with kids with difficult issues.”


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## spnadmin (May 21, 2010)

*Edmonton  Police Officer Overcomes Abuse*

Maple Leaf Sikh: Edmonton Police Officer Overcomes Abuse


Before Namrata “Mona” Gill became a city police officer she endured  beatings and belittling from her husband, eventually seeking refuge in a  women’s shelter with her young daughter.

But as a Sikh woman from India, where divorce is frowned upon, it was  far from easy to escape her arranged marriage.

“It takes a lot of courage,” said Gill, 39, Thursday.

Language barriers, a lack of family support and cultural differences  make it especially difficult for immigrant females to leave abusive  relationships, Gill said.

The first shelter for immigrant women in Canada opened its doors in  Edmonton Monday. The five-bedroom shelter – WIN House III - is staffed  with multi-lingual workers 24 hours a day.

Gill said she is amazed to see the centre open but says more are needed.  Already the shelter’s 10 beds are full, said Sandra Danco, executive  director of Edmonton Women’s Shelters.

The $500,000 project was funded through Alberta Children and Youth  Services, Ministry of Culture and Community Spirit and private  donations.

As a police officer, Gill said she speaks with women experiencing abuse  daily just as she did.

Gill spent six years in a marriage where she worked unpaid up to 15  hours a day in her husband’s convenience store. He beat her, leaving  bruises everywhere on her body – except her face, and was nearly raped.

Her dream of a career in law enforcement was squashed by her partner.  But Gill says she was one of the lucky ones - as she had parental  support.

With the help of her parents, Gill left and took refuge in a women’s  shelter. For more than a month, a WIN House shelter was home with her  four-year-old daughter Anmol Gill Sandhu.

Gill speaks openly about her abuse with the hope she can help others in  similar situations.

Last month, Namrata - a National Film Board of Canada documentary about  Mona’s struggle - was released.

“I know it will help a lot of women, but even if I can help one,” said  Gill, a 911 dispatcher.

One of the first things Gill did after leaving her husband was apply to  become a police officer. Nearly 10 years ago her dream came true.

“It’s your life. You can do what you want instead of someone controlling  it. If I can do it anybody can do it.”


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## spnadmin (May 21, 2010)

Here is a short clip from the documentary mentioned above. The story of Namrata Gill was the inspiration for the film by Deepa Mehta, Heaven on Earth.


http://www.nfb.ca/film/namrata_clip_2/

I think you can find other clips of the film at this web site too.


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## Tejwant Singh (May 22, 2010)

Domestic violence from any gender in marriage is wrong, cruel and criminal, not only in the eyes of the law in most of the western world but also from the humanity point of view. We, as humans evolve and that evolution from the within is to " feel no enmity, to see no one as stranger".

No one has the right to beat the spouse or the kids to teach/prove the  point. It is inhumane.

Even the Bible, the religion adopted by the majority, condones child abuse  and ill treatment of women and women always took  back stage in the world's religions including Islam till the vision that Guru Nanak shared with us.

Domestic violence which also goes along with child abuse is not uncommon in India or any other patriarchal society where men have the upper hand literally and metaphorically speaking in this case. Female infanticide is the ends to the means of domestic abuse when women are abused by their husbands and their in-laws.

This tribal mentality is abhorrent to say the least no matter how many nitnems, sehaj paaths, akhand paaths we do.

There are many Namratas in India and outside India hiding in the closets too afraid and ashamed to share this daily torture along with their children when the spouse/father shows up, most of the time drunk. Many who do not drink also practice this same barbarity.

Local Gurdwaras in the diaspora rather than  spending money on golden domes and other futile stuff should open shelters for this kind of abuse. 

After all isn't this the meaning of the tall Nishan Sahib at every Gurdwara to invite those in who are in need?

This need is more urgent now than ever.

Narayanjot ji, thanks for bringing this in light by posting the news. We at SPN should open a section which should be only accessed by the  mentors, leaders and the administrators where the abused can share their stories without the fear of repercussions and we can help them in some way or form with the help of SALDEF, Sikh Coalition and United Sikhs. 

I am sure it can be done. Let's spread the world out and take this step to stop this domestic abuse because Sikhi demands this from us.

Tejwant Singh


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## Admin (Jun 1, 2010)

*Gursharan Kaur: India's First Lady's Autobiography*

India's First Lady's Autobiography

ECONOMIC TIMES





Behind every successful man, there is a woman, goes the cliché.

At the first press conference on the first anniversary of his second term as PM, Dr Manmohan Singh was asked about the role played by not one but two women in his life: his wife Gursharan Kaur and Congress president Sonia Gandhi. "I have the benefit of being advised by the Congress president and my wife. Both of them deal with different subjects," he added, much to the amusement of the journalists present.

The advice being offered by Sonia Gandhi is, of course, constantly being written about by the media.

The advice offered by Gursharan Kaur - India's First Lady and the first spouse to hold such a position who has fulfilled her role with competence, grace and aplomb - could be revealed in the autobiography she is reportedly working on. Journalists could even glean insights from the book that she is reportedly writing in consultation with editor-turned-columnist-cum-historian-cum-novelist, Khushwant Singh.

The PM's daughter, Upinder Kaur, a scholar in her own right, has authored books titled Ancient Delhi and A History of Ancient and Early Medieval India. Another daughter, Daman Kaur, has written a book titled The Last Frontier: People and Forests in Mizoram and a novel titled Nine by Nine.

When Tony Blair was the prime minister of the UK, his wife Cherie - a leading lawyer in her own right - came out with a book that was fairly critical of not just his political opponents but his eventual successor. When both the Bushes (father and son) were presidents of the U.S., their wives (Barbara and Laura) wrotebooks about how cute their pet dogs were! When Bill Clinton was the president of the U.S., his wife Hillary wrote a rather profound book titled It Takes a Village, which, some said, was meant to advance her own political career.

While Gursharan Kaur can be counted on to not spill the beans a la Cherie or to further any independent political agenda a la Hillary, any book with which Khushwant is reportedly involved should hopefully be more than just cute!



May 28, 2010


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## spnadmin (Jun 1, 2010)

*Re: Gursharan Kaur: India's First Lady's Autobiography*

Aman ji

After the White House dinner and state visit, covered extensively by US press, Gursharan Kaur started to become a person of fascination to many Americans. We have another story about her here in the forum. She is apparently known for her personal humility and modesty, always shying from the limelight.

The story I recall is of her attendance at a state reception in India. She helped herself to some appetizer and tea and sat off away from the noisy crowd by herself. She was approached by a very sophisticated and talkative lady who introduced herself and began bragging about her husband, his achievements and exploits. Gursharan Kaur listened with apparent interest. Finally when the "society matron" was finished, she asked Gursharan ji about her husband. "What does he do?" was the question. Gursharan said, "He works for the government." Not satisfied, the elegant woman asked more. "But where does he work?" Answer from Gursharan, "He has an office in the federal facilities." (I can't remember exactly the location, apologies from me.) The woman persisted. "But what is his position?" Only then did Gursharan ji reply, "He is the prime minister." Obviously this story left an impression on me. So much for status seekers. LOL


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## spnadmin (Jul 14, 2010)

*Kiran Bedi*

                     Kiran Bedi is truly an icon of heroism. She was the  first Indian woman         to join the Indian Police Services. She was born on June 9, 1949  at         Amritsar in Punjab. She is one of the most renowned police  officers, who         have put in their whole hearted effort in serving the society.  Well, in         this article, we will present you with the biography of Kiran  Bedi, who         is the pride of our Indian police force.

         In the recent times, she has been appointed as the Director  General of         India's Bureau of Police Research and Development. Earlier, she  served         as the Police Advisor in the United Nations peacekeeping  department. For         her noteworthy performance, she was awarded with the UN medal.  In the         year 2005, she received the honorary degree of Doctor of Law. To  know         the complete life history of Kiran Bedi, read on…

*Education*
        She did her schooling from the Sacred Heart Convent School in  Amritsar.          She completed her graduation in the English language from the  Government          College for Women in Amritsar. She received her Masters degree  in Political          Science from Punjab University, Chandigarh. She continued her  studies,          even when she joined the Indian Police force. In the year 1988,  she obtained          a degree in Law (LLB) from Delhi University. 

        In the year 1993, the Department of Social Sciences, the Indian  Institute          of Technology in New Delhi awarded her with a Ph.D. degree. Her  topic          of research was Drug Abuse and Domestic Violence. Kiran Bedi has  won the          championship of all-India and all-Asian tennis competition. When  she was          22 years old, she won the Asian Ladies Title.

*Career*
         Her career started in the year 1970, when she took the job of a         lecturer at Khalsa College for Women in Amritsar. Two years  later, she         joined the Indian Police Services. All the way through her  career, she         has taken up a number of challenging assignments. She has served  as the         Traffic Commissioner of New Delhi, Deputy Inspector General of  Police in         the insurgency prone area of Mizoram.

         She has also been the Lieutenant Governor of Chandigarh and  Director         General of Narcotics Control Bureau. An interesting thing about  Kiran         Bedi is that, sometimes, she is referred to as Crane Bedi. The  reason         behind calling her by this name is that, she dragged the car of  Prime         Minister Indira Gandhi due to violation of parking rules. 

         Kiran Bedi made the Indian Police Service change its decision  in         matters related to traffic management, control over narcotics  and VIP         security. During her tenure as the Inspector General of Tihar  Jail, she         brought about several reforms in the way the prisons are  managed. She         brought forth a number of measures like yoga, meditation,  redressal of         complaints made by the prisoners etc.

         Kiran Bedi laid the foundation for the establishment of two  voluntary         organizations, namely, Navajyoti (1988) & India Vision  Foundation         (1994). These organizations were primarily set up with the aim  of         improving the living conditions of the drug addicts and the         underprivileged people. The effort of Kiran Bedi has paid and  brought         her worldwide recognition. Her works have always earned  appreciation.         For drug abuse prevention, her organization was presented with  the Serge         Soitiroff Memorial Award by the United Nations. 

*Awards*
         For her outstanding work, Kiran Bedi has received a number of  accolades         like:


President's Gallantry Award (1979)
Women of the Year Award (1980)
Asia Region Award for Drug Prevention and Control (1991)
Magsaysay Award for Government Service (1994)
Mahila Shiromani Award (1995)
Father Machismo Humanitarian Award (1995)
Lion of the Year (1995)
Joseph Beuys Award (1997)
Pride of India (1999)
Mother Teresa Memorial National Award for Social Justice  (2005

Note: Kiran Bedi is from a mixed Hindu-Sikh family. Biography at this link http://www.rmaf.org.ph/Awardees/Biography/BiographyBediKir.htm




http://www.iloveindia.com/indian-heroes/kiran-bedi.html


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## spnadmin (Aug 23, 2010)

*
Dr. Anarkali Kaur Honaryar: Afghanistan's Sikh Heroine*


"It is difficult for a woman to be a pilot in Afghanistan. My father said it does not fit in with this country's culture," Dr Anarkali Kaur Honaryar tells me, sitting in her office at the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission.

In some ways the high flyer has taken on a challenge much tougher than piloting planes.

She fights for women's rights in a society that remains staunchly patriarchal, and where many of her gender still breathe beneath their veils.

In May 2009, the 25-year-old was chosen by Radio Free Europe's Afghan chapter as their "Person of the Year". The award has made her a household name in Kabul.

Anarkali Kaur - a trained dentist - is one of about 3,000 Sikhs and Hindus who remain in Afghanistan.

Their number - and their prosperity - has significantly dwindled since 1991 when civil war broke out.

Before then, there were an estimated 50,000 Sikhs and Hindus in this ethnically diverse country and many ran successful businesses in Kabul, Kandahar and other cities.

But the outbreak of hostilities meant that most - including Anarkali's relatives - moved to safer places in India, Europe and Canada.

She has led campaigns for the civil rights of the embattled communities who stayed on, including one to get crematoriums built for their dead.

"Some people still think we are foreigners. They think we are Indians who are working and living here for a while. But we are Afghans too, and we should have all the rights and opportunities that other Afghans have," says the demure yet outspoken doctor.

She has grown up in turbulent times.

In the early 1990s, Afghanistan was a country at war, with no stable central government.

The provinces - including Anarkali's native Baghlan in the north - were ruled by warlords.

To make matters worse, swathes of the country were falling into Taliban hands.

Girls' schools were banned in Taliban strongholds and religious minorities felt threatened by their extremist Sunni Muslim ideology - Anarkali Kaur fell into both categories: a female and a non-Muslim.

Fortunately for her, Baghlan did not come under Taliban rule. She carried on her education in relative freedom and graduated from high school four years ahead of her peers.

"I am grateful to my parents for supporting my education. Not all Afghan girls have been so lucky," she says.

Once the Taliban were overthrown in 2001, Anarkali went to Kabul University to study medicine. She was part of the Loya Jirga (grand council) that selected the interim government to replace the Taliban.

"The situation for women has improved since the Taliban days. Now if the Karzai government does not listen to us, at least we can appeal to human rights groups," she says.

And so she joined the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission in 2006.

"They know I am a Sikh but they still trust me with their most personal problems," she says of the hundreds of mostly Muslim women she meets.

"The culture here is loaded against women. We try to solve their problems, but we also need to change the laws."

Awareness of existing laws is also at a premium here - the female literacy rate is less than 20%.

Anarkali recounts how an illiterate woman had travelled a long way to Kabul to meet her. The woman's husband wanted to divorce her when she was expecting their child.

"She didn't know that Afghan laws state a husband cannot divorce his pregnant wife. He has to wait till the child is at least two months old. We helped her secure her rights," she says, with a hint of pride.

While conferences have taken her to different parts of the globe, Dr Anarkali Kaur Honaryar regrets not travelling enough in the land of her ancestors - Punjab and India.

A visit to the Golden Temple in Amritsar - Sikhism's holiest shrine - is top of her to-do list. And of course, the Taj Mahal.

http://www.unp.co.in/f16/afghanistans-sikh-heroine-100796/


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## kds1980 (Sep 3, 2010)

*Harsimrat Kaur Badal* is current member of the for the Indian parliamentary electorate of Bathinda. Kaur Badal is the wife of Sukhbir Singh Badal, President of Shiromani Akali Dal and daughter-in-law of Punjab Chief Minister Parkash Singh Badal. She currently represents Bathinda lok sabha constituency in 15th Lok Sabha. In 2009 Lok Sabha elections, she defeated Raninder Singh, son of former Chief Minister of Punjab Captain Amarinder Singh in a high profile election contest.[_citation needed_]
*[edit] Campaign against female infanticide*

 Kaur Badal worked vigorously for gender sensitivity and her campaign  against female feticide has highlighted the issue to such great length  that almost all NGOs & Govt. authorities have woken of from slumber  and trying to enlighten the people to shun female feticide which would  go long way in checking the ever decreasing female sex ratio in Punjab  & she earned lot of respect for her efforts in her successful  campaign known as (NANHI CHAAN). She emphasised on planting trees by  equating motherhood with mother nature , she is very assertive in  parliament, she has successfully raised the issue of 1984 genocide of  sikhs in parliament of India which has culminated in resignation of a  Cabinet Minister and prosecution of Sajjan Kumar accused of killing  Sikhs in riots of Delhi in the year 1984 after more than 25 years  providing some hope of justice to victims and for restoring the faith of  posterity in the indian legal system which has been made perfunctory by  law enforcing agencies. on 3.12.2009, she addressed the house & she  was heard with rapt attention, it was one of the rare occasion when M.P  of any regional party spoke from heart and the entire house was at ad  idem with her concern about the victims & survivors of genocide of  Sikhs in 1984. she highlighted how after 25 years, these victims are  still waitnig for any substantial justice , her heartfelt speech evoked  response from the opposition members and in unison they said " SHAME  SHAME" . She further highlighted the contribution of Sikhs in Freedom  Struggle, by indicating out of 70% of the total execution by the  Colonial Government.& 80 % of indians sent to exile in Kalapani in  Andeman were Sikhs. She invited the attention of the house , how the  same Nationalist Sikhs were killed for merely being Sikhs in 1984 Sikh  Genocide , her heartrending speech brought the entire House into a  gloomy quiet, the leader of House Parnab Mukhreji was forced to  acknowledge , it was tragic and he said it should not happen again , but  it was too little and too late to mitigate the misery of victims , his  subtle response was deafened by the entire opposition exclaiming "IT IS  HORRENDOUS" some thing which the leader of the House could not  congregate himself.The vicitms still waiting for justice for 26 long  years to have yet any single person prosecuted for the gory massacare of  Sikhs in 1984, felt some liberation that someone forcefully &  considrately took up their cause at the floor of the house.


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## spnadmin (Sep 3, 2010)

Maybe Harisimrat Kaur would be a good compromise candidate as CM of Punjab. What do you think Kanwardeep Singh ji?


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## kds1980 (Sep 4, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Maybe Harisimrat Kaur would be a good compromise candidate as CM of Punjab. What do you think Kanwardeep Singh ji?



Yes She can become good CM of Punjab but personally I prefer her to do What She is doing now and that is taking the cause of sikhs and Punjab to center.She regularly Attend parliement  and speak like a lioness.Her communication skills are excellent.Unfortunately majority of Akali leaders of all parties are of rural background and lack communication skills.Harsimrat  also speak very well in English and because of this English News channles Like times now and CNN IBN  now regularly invite her in there prime time shows.She regularly mention contribuition of sikhs as farmers and amount of foodgrain Punjab produce and also express failure of central Govt for not
having appropriate storage space.We should remember That in democracy power flows through media.So What she is doing is excellent 


I had similar hopes with Navjot singh sidhu but he turned out be a big dissappointment


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## spnadmin (Dec 23, 2010)

Sikh Scholar Niki Kaur Honoured

http://www.sikhnugget.com/2010/12/sikh-scholar-nikky-guninder-kaur.html


The department of historical studies of Punjabi University, bestowed a fellowship on Nikki Guninder Kaur Singh, chair and crawford family, professor of the department of religious study, Colby College Waterville, USA.

Guninder’s father, Harbans Singh, had earlier taught at the same university in the department of religious studies.

She also presented a lecture on the relevance of Guru Granth Sahib in the modern society at the university. She said historical scriptures were valuable in today’s society. Stressing on the fact that all religions taught humanity, Guninder said Guru Granth Sahib, Bhagwad Gita, Bible, Quran and Buddhism taught the same thing in different dialects.

According to her, they taught the universal truth of life. “All these scriptures change our values and how we look at everything. It is important to interpret them,” she said.

She said Sikhism was a powerful medium of teaching right things in life and her main focus was to bridge the gap between Indians and Americans. Kaur said many Americans were interested in Sikhsim. “I am working to translate Sikh religious works into English,” she said.

Guninder stressed on the five themes that had vital contemporary relevance, Historical Reality (Guru Granth Ji Manio Pargat Guran Ki Deh), the infinite one (ikk onkar), egalitarian ethics (khatri Brahman sud vais updes cahu varna ko sajha), a magical planetarium: worlds beyond worlds (patala patal lakh agasa agas), a feminist text: the divine is both male and female (ape purakh ape hi nar).

Chief guest at the function, former MP Tarlochan Singh, lauded the work done by late Prof Harbans.

Aman Sood, Tribune News Service, Patiala, December 20


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## spnadmin (Mar 19, 2011)

Dr. Jasdeep Kaur Joins NASA's Mission Mars

by GAUTAM DHEER


Dr Jasdeep Kaur, a dentist from Kapurthala district in Punjab, is all set to be part of NASA's Mars Desert Research Station (MDRS) Mission 100B as its Health and Safety Officer.

The 27-year-old Jasdeep Kaur will also double up as a biologist in Grand Junction, Colorado, U.S.A., where the mission is underway. She is part of the six-member crew of the Europe Space Agency.

A Mars-like atmosphere has been created in a desert in Grand Junction where the team is undertaking real-life experiments for the final mission to the planet.

Jasdeep Kaur's task in Grand Junction will go beyond just health and safety issues of the crew. She will prepare guidelines for the real MARS mission and will explore the deep subsurface of MDRS as well as the existence of deep subsurface organisms in the world.

Her parents, Dr Harbhajan Singh, a homeopath and mother, Ravinder Kaur, a manager with a national bank, are ecstatic about Jasdeep's achievement.

"Our daughter has keen interest in forensic odontology and space dentistry. Jasdeep is currently working on effect of microgravity on human body,"  Dr. Harbhajan Singh said.

 In 2008, Jasdeep Kaur was in Mangalore to receive the top honour from the prestigious Student Clinician American Dental Association for her table clinic. After her dental degree from Ludhiana, Punjab, she completed a double Master's in Forensic Odontology from Belgium.

Dr. Harbhajan Singh said the university, based on her research in space dentistry, recommended her name to the European Space Station. "There, she undertook research on the impact of space pressure on tooth and jaw. When the Mars mission came up, she applied and was selected after a series of interviews and tests," he said. 

Dr Jasdeep Kaur is also the Editor-in-Chief of the Journal of Aeronautic Dentistry and President of International Forensic Odontology. She has published three medical books and has four patents pending on her research studies.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/145348/punjab-girl-mission-mars.html


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## kds1980 (Mar 20, 2011)

Is the above Pic is of Dr.Jasdeep Kaur? I don't think Health and safety officers wear suits like Astraunauts


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## spnadmin (Mar 20, 2011)

She is training to set up a desert research station for NASA,  in preparation a MARS mission. Teams simulate conditions in space at these stations, therefore the space suits. NASA teams are typically international teams. Therefore an Indian. The picture is cropped, otherwise you would see 2 or 3 other people, also in space suits. You can read the article.


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## kds1980 (Jun 1, 2011)

Harsimar Kaur of Gian Jyoti school topped All India PMT

Punjab Newsline Network
Tuesday, 31 May 2011

MOHALI: After snatching number one position in Mohali in class XII (CBSE)  Harsimar Kaur, a radiant Gian Jyotian has added one more feather in the already beaming cap of the school as she has topped the ALL INDIA-PMT Results. 


Harsimar Kaur
This marvelous achievement is the ample reward for her dedication towards her target and splendid gift for her Parents, teachers for their paramount efforts and hard labour to facilitate their students mount innovative pinnacles.

Harsimar Kaur, is a fabulous performer who left no stone unturned to capture this credit. The most imperative aspects, which have helped her a lot to reach her destination, are her consistency and commitment to work. Moreover, she has ‘never to give up’ attitude. If asked she says – “I was confident of making it as I used to study for eight hours daily and moreover my mother and my teachers motivated me to accomplish this achievement”. She is fond of reading and listening to music. She strives to reach beyond her goal and she is confident that even the sky is not the limit. 

Her success was celebrated in the school with a special assembly of the students in the school auditorium where the students were intimated about her excellent performance and were distributed chocolates. The Principal Mrs. Ranjeet Bedi applauded her remarkable strides and congratulated the entire faculty and her Parents.

PMT is India's Pre medical test in which all students of India compete to get admissions in Top medical colleges of India.

http://punjabnewsline.com/content/harsimar-kaur-gian-jyoti-school-topped-all-india-pmt/31344


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## spnadmin (Feb 6, 2016)

*Ekjot Sodhi (rank 1), Pooja Goyal (rank 39) and Ranjana Bhandari (rank 89) in a jubilant mood at the University Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Panjab University, Chandigarh, on Wednesday. Tribune photo: Vinay Malik*




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Ekjot Kaur outshines 40,000 others
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Link to news http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110602/chd.htm

Chandigarh, June 1
Attain exceptional levels of performance, 31 of the 33 students of (UIPS), Panjab University, who appeared in the Graduate Pharmacy Aptitude Test 2011 (GPAT) conducted nationwide have cleared it. This rigorous exam is the gateway to masters in pharmacy program in prestigious institutions in the country and makes a candidate eligible for doing PhD in pharmacy.

Ekjot Kaur of UIPS scored the first rank in the test outshining 40,000 students across the country. Besides, seven other students of the institute have made it to the top 100. Incidentally seven of the eight top rank holders are girls.

The Indian Pharmaceutical Association (IPA) introduced the test last year for entrance to the MPharma course in leading institutes including the eight National Institutes of Pharmaceutical Education & Research (NIPERs). Admissions to the course were earlier done on the basis of the GATE exam. In 2010 and 2011 10,000 students across the country cleared the exam conducted by MS University, Baroda.

Besides Ekjot, others from PU who secured top slots in GPAT include Sukneeraj Pal Kaur (rank 5), Anurag Singla (17), Tanya Choudhary (26), Pooja Goyal (39), Ashna Puri (56), Ranjana Bhandari (87) and Navjot (96).

“Since the first day after enrolling in the BPharma course our teachers had been motivating us to work towards the entrance test for the masters program. Even during the GPAT exam our classroom lectures helped us score better than others,” said Ekjot, who aspires to seek admission to NIPER, Mohali.

“The mode of teaching at our department is so rigorous we were very well versed with our syllabi. First were taught in the class, followed by practical training and at the end we used to submit our synopsis,” she added.

Pooja, who scored the 39th rank, said besides academics all top rank holders also participated in extracurricular activities. “Students in this department are so disciplined they set an example for others on the PU campus. Our teachers guided us and encouraged us, not only for the entrance exam but also to participate in extracurricular activities”, she added.

“I began preparing seriously for the test last year and the classroom instruction was of great help,” said Ranjana. She, Ekjot and Pooja won positions in the college competition in the National Pharmacy Week organized by IPA.


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