# If There Is A God



## namritanevaeh (Dec 17, 2015)

*I posted this elsewhere the other day...just things I would enjoy discussing...*

*If there is a god… (Philosophical musings)*


Things I don’t understand:

If god created the earth AND the heavens and universe, and things that are “on the ground” for me in Canada are on “the top of the world” for someone right around the globe for me, and there’s no true “up or down” in space, why should it be wrong to put a gutka or religious book such as ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ on the “ground”??

Did god create feet to be dirtier than hands? Why is it a sign of respect to touch someone’s feet with your forehead or kiss their feet, but disrespectful to put your feet facing the ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ? And what of the idea of the people who go about in the shoe room at the gurdwara dusting them and touching them…to get the knowledge of their wearers symbolically?

Are bacteria weaker than we are because we are bigger and we think we can fool them? Or are they stronger, more powerful, and therefore superior to us because a single teaspoon of them could sometimes kill us? Why the fear of bacteria in food or with the idea of washing your hands before praying or eating but do you wash your money (which has a LOT of bacteria typically on it!!) before putting in the slot for donations at the gurdwara? If you don't wash your money right before doing so, doesn't the fact that you washed your hands before manipulating contaminated money kind if seem rather like a useless ritual in the end?

(All this being said I personally think bacteria are absolutely necessary and mostly beneficial, because if we tried to live in a sterile world we would be sicker not healthier).

I have more but I’ll think some on it…

questions


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## Harry Haller (Dec 17, 2015)

Allow me to give my pragmatic reasons



namritanevaeh said:


> If god created the earth AND the heavens and universe, and things that are “on the ground” for me in Canada are on “the top of the world” for someone right around the globe for me, and there’s no true “up or down” in space, why should it be wrong to put a gutka or religious book such as ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ on the “ground”??



someone might kick it, it might get dirty, it is interesting to note that the ground is not up or down, if you were to do a loop the loop on child's electric car track, the car is still on the ground even though it is upside down..



namritanevaeh said:


> Did god create feet to be dirtier than hands? Why is it a sign of respect to touch someone’s feet with your forehead or kiss their feet, but disrespectful to put your feet facing the ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ? And what of the idea of the people who go about in the shoe room at the gurdwara dusting them and touching them…to get the knowledge of their wearers symbolically?



There is a Sakhi that involves Guru Nanakji pointing his feet, and pointing out that God is everywhere, so I will leave you to draw your own conclusions as to whether these actions are Gurmatt or not, that is a right we all have, which we can practice without making others feel they are wrong, after all, we are all on a journey, learning, unlearning and learning (c) TM



namritanevaeh said:


> Are bacteria weaker than we are because we are bigger and we think we can fool them? Or are they stronger, more powerful, and therefore superior to us because a single teaspoon of them could sometimes kill us? Why the fear of bacteria in food or with the idea of washing your hands before praying or eating but do you wash your money (which has a LOT of bacteria typically on it!!) before putting in the slot for donations at the gurdwara? If you don't wash your money right before doing so, doesn't the fact that you washed your hands before manipulating contaminated money kind if seem rather like a useless ritual in the end?



Pragmatically, I think this is just to freshen one self up before entering an area where the word of God is being read.



namritanevaeh said:


> I have more but I’ll think some on it…



please do, posts like this dispel a lot of myths and help explain where Sikhism is at present.


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## Harkiran Kaur (Dec 17, 2015)

I thought touching feet of elders was just a cultural thing as a sign of respect, and nothing to do with religion?  It's like making a statement that you are elevating them above you or humbling yourself because you recognize all the wisdom and life experience they have over you?? I don't think it's a religious thing at all or thought of as such.


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## Ishna (Dec 17, 2015)

Touching the dust of the feet of saints to the forehead is a custom I see occurring at the Gurdwara all the time.  Devotees touch the floor at the door or Darbar Sahib and then touch their foreheads.  They touch the steps up to Gurdwara Sahib\Darbar Sahib and do the same.

But I'm with Harkiran Ji, where touching the feet of elders (or people you respect, like your parents and grandparents) is a cultural activity to mark respect.

Regards to having the soles of your feet facing Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, I figure it wouldn't be a very pleasant sight for Guru Sahib to look at the soles of the devotees' feet.


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 17, 2015)

I think you guys are confusing ,matha tekna in front of SGGS, our only Guru, and touching the feet of an elder although the former is used for the latter in the written language. Touching feet of one's elders is a sign of respect in a patriarchal hierarchy (patriarchal hierarchy, good or bad would be a new thread)  to learn from them whether they have gained wisdom or not with age is the discussion for another thread as well.


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## Ishna (Dec 17, 2015)

Confusing it how?


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 17, 2015)

Confusing between 'Matha Tekna' and 'Touching the feet'.  The former is when one's forehead touches the floor as in Gurdwaras where as the latter is for the elders as a sign of respect.


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## Ishna (Dec 17, 2015)

Yes, and we're not talking about matha tek. 

The only other concept I introduced besides touching the feet is taking dust from the ground and putting it on your forehead.


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## namritanevaeh (Dec 18, 2015)

Ishna said:


> Regards to having the soles of your feet facing Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, I figure it wouldn't be a very pleasant sight for Guru Sahib to look at the soles of the devotees' feet.



With all the other bad things that do go on in today's world, and could go on, I personally couldn't imagine a god/guru whatever you want to call it, him, her...that really cares what the soles of our feet (that they presumably created?) look like...not when they could also be looking at people fighting or whatever.

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses, it's interesting reading them.


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## Jasdeep118 (Dec 18, 2015)

Ishna said:


> Touching the dust of the feet of saints to the forehead is a custom I see occurring at the Gurdwara all the time.  Devotees touch the floor at the door or Darbar Sahib and then touch their foreheads.  They touch the steps up to Gurdwara Sahib\Darbar Sahib and do the same.
> 
> But I'm with Harkiran Ji, where touching the feet of elders (or people you respect, like your parents and grandparents) is a cultural activity to mark respect.
> 
> Regards to having the soles of your feet facing Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, I figure it wouldn't be a very pleasant sight for Guru Sahib to look at the soles of the devotees' feet.


I do that as well when I go to gurdwara, I just copy my parents.


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## Ishna (Dec 18, 2015)

namritanevaeh said:


> With all the other bad things that do go on in today's world, and could go on, I personally couldn't imagine a god/guru whatever you want to call it, him, her...that really cares what the soles of our feet (that they presumably created?) look like...not when they could also be looking at people fighting or whatever.
> 
> Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses, it's interesting reading them.



Oh no, sorry I wasn't clear.  I meant the actual human Gurus sitting in Darbar Sahib.

However, I do believe the same 'no feet pointing' custom is observed in Islam with regard to the ka'baa.

Most likely, a cultural habit.


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## Ishna (Dec 18, 2015)

Jasdeep118 said:


> I do that as well when I go to gurdwara, I just copy my parents.



Can you ask your parents why they do it?  It would be good for you to know why you are doing something, or else it is just a hollow ritual to you, which Guru Sahib warns us against.

Also, I'd love to know why they do it


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## chazSingh (Dec 18, 2015)

namritanevaeh said:


> With all the other bad things that do go on in today's world, and could go on, I personally couldn't imagine a god/guru whatever you want to call it, him, her...that really cares what the soles of our feet (that they presumably created?) look like...not when they could also be looking at people fighting or whatever.
> 
> Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses, it's interesting reading them.



great post ji,

point your feet in any direction...nothing is really dirty and nothing is really clean...all is waheguru...
that being said...i never feel comfortable pointing my feet at anyone or anything...whether it's ok or not, i get a weird feeling whilst doing it

cleaning shoes at gurdwara...to gain knowledge? i've never heard of this...
cleaning shoes is a sure way to kill ones ego and propel you closer to waheguru like nothing else...
cleaning shoes whilst friends and family look on you like "what the hell is he doing"...and you battle your own mind (ego) which tells you "you're embarassaing yourself, stop cleaning shoes...your better than that, everyones looking at you"

makes you humble...

Don;t think waheguru cares about seeing your feet...He's within you, and within everything else...where can He not be, and what can He not see...He is the one pointing the feet and he is the one looking at them...what matters is your thoughts, your deeds, your actions...keep them clean...fight the corrupt mind.

good questions...keep asking them


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## swarn bains (Dec 18, 2015)

there are two  word: God and god. first you have to learn the difference between the two . any one can put a question, but to answer is something else. in my opinion; you sir do not understand what the spiritual system talks about. You should raise a question with conscious or the eternal commitment. that can happen if you are spiritually inclined or something else. you have to know your own state of mind to raise a serious question. explain your own state of mind and then we will talk
secondly you say you are in Canada and you are on top of the world. why do you need to know anything if you are already there.  next point i have is that i visited Canada more times than you. I did not find it to be the top of the universe  or the world except cold.  Answer this and i will tell u how many times i visited Canada.
i will answer all of your questions if you are capable of understanding what sggs talks about and touching someone's feet etc. will wait.


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## Jasdeep118 (Dec 18, 2015)

Ishna said:


> Can you ask your parents why they do it?  It would be good for you to know why you are doing something, or else it is just a hollow ritual to you, which Guru Sahib warns us against.
> 
> Also, I'd love to know why they do it


I am really not sure, but I will ask my parents.


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## Ishna (Dec 18, 2015)

Jasdeep118 said:


> I am really not sure, but I will ask my parents.



Thank you.


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## namritanevaeh (Dec 20, 2015)

Jasdeep118 said:


> I do that as well when I go to gurdwara, I just copy my parents.


Question though, if someone does something just to copy...doesn't it lose its meaning and really become something of an empty rituel?


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## namritanevaeh (Dec 20, 2015)

Thanks!! 




chazSingh said:


> great post ji,
> 
> point your feet in any direction...nothing is really dirty and nothing is really clean...all is waheguru...
> that being said...i never feel comfortable pointing my feet at anyone or anything...whether it's ok or not, i get a weird feeling whilst doing it
> ...


j


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## namritanevaeh (Dec 20, 2015)

Wow. You know, I hope it wasn't meant this way but your post struck me as very uppity/snobbish/(egotistical).

If you want to tell me what your purported difference between god and God is, go ahead. Personally, typing on an iPhone, capitalization sometimes goes out the window. Additionally, I kind of like the fact that Gurmukhi itself doesn't use capitals or lower case, as I can find them tedious at times.



swarn bains said:


> there are two  word: God and god. first you have to learn the difference between the two . any one can put a question, but to answer is something else. in my opinion; you sir do not understand what the spiritual system talks about. You should raise a question with conscious or the eternal commitment. that can happen if you are spiritually inclined or something else. you have to know your own state of mind to raise a serious question. explain your own state of mind and then we will talk
> secondly you say you are in Canada and you are on top of the world. why do you need to know anything if you are already there.  next point i have is that i visited Canada more times than you. I did not find it to be the top of the universe  or the world except cold.  Answer this and i will tell u how many times i visited Canada.
> i will answer all of your questions if you are capable of understanding what sggs talks about and touching someone's feet etc. will wait.



I'm not sure what you mean by explaining my state of mind. I feel that I am quite spiritual, though I am not super religious.

By top of the world/Canada I thought it was pretty clear I meant in comparison to somewhere like say Australia, being on the complete other side...but also said it's obvious in space there is no "up or down" really.

Anyhow, I hope you were attempting to be humourous but I personally didn't read it that way.


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## swarn bains (Dec 20, 2015)

if you were spiritual, your question would be: how do i pray to God. how do it proceed further. it is all with humility to know something. simply saying that i am spiritual does not make one spiritual. In the west where you live the code of conduct  which were born with and lost with time is called the spirituality. In the east the spirituality is the trial and process and practice with love and devotion to unit with the master is called spirituality.
i was not humorous because the way you put your question indicated that you are thinking the way the westerns think. that is what felt and that is why i was harsh to answer your question. sorry for any wrong feelings if i created as such


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## Ishna (Dec 20, 2015)

*mutters* Damned westerners with their damned rational thinking... *shakes head*


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## namritanevaeh (Dec 21, 2015)

swarn bains said:


> if you were spiritual, your question would be: how do i pray to God. how do it proceed further. it is all with humility to know something. simply saying that i am spiritual does not make one spiritual. In the west where you live the code of conduct  which were born with and lost with time is called the spirituality. In the east the spirituality is the trial and process and practice with love and devotion to unit with the master is called spirituality.



Well I stand by what I said. You speak of humility but I see none. Your comments come across as "we're holier than you are/better than you are because of how we do things in the east".




> i was not humorous because the way you put your question indicated that you are thinking the way the westerns think. that is what felt and that is why i was harsh to answer your question. sorry for any wrong feelings if i created as such



*"*of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
"I'm responsible for his spiritual welfare"
synonyms: nonmaterial, incorporeal, intangible;"

That is an online definition of spiritual. One of them, anyhow. I'm a very humanitarian person, not affected much by material objects. I identify well with the idea of sewa within Sikhi, though other parts of it don't suit me as well.

As for a god? Part of the reason my post is titled "if there is a god" is because I don't personally believe that it is a cut and dried thing that is definite. It's possible there is one. And in my opinion it's possible there is not.


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 21, 2015)

chazSingh said:


> great post ji,
> 
> Cleaning shoes at gurdwara...to gain knowledge? i've never heard of this...
> cleaning shoes is a sure way to kill ones ego and propel you closer to waheguru like nothing else...
> ...



Guru Fateh.

I have no idea how much you know about the Jori Ghar in the Gurdwaras in India including  Harmander Sahib in Amritsar. This is a special place unlike in the west where people put their shoes on the shelves by themselves.

The sevadaars take special pride in India where a ticket is given to the person who leaves the shoes there. Many of these sevadaars wipe and clean the shoes. It is a normal and a noble practice and a very important one.


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## namritanevaeh (Dec 22, 2015)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Guru Fateh.
> 
> I have no idea how much you know about the Jori Ghar in the Gurdwaras in India including  Harmander Sahib in Amritsar. This is a special place unlike in the west where people put their shoes on the shelves by themselves.
> 
> The sevadaars take special pride in India where a ticket is given to the person who leaves the shoes there. Many of these sevadaars wipe and clean the shoes. It is a normal and a noble practice and a very important one.


cool, thanks for telling me about this! It's like a coat check.


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 22, 2015)

namritanevaeh said:


> cool, thanks for telling me about this! It's like a coat check.



Not really. One gets the shoes back that have been cleaned/polished.


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## swarn bains (Dec 22, 2015)

different people have different views about touching some one's feet. 
the intelligence is in the brain, that makes a person proud. now look at the water; the heavy things go down to the bottom. look at the wind; the heavy things fall to the ground. let us say that the knowledge also follows that system. that means there is some divine knowledge in the feet or around the feet of a divine person. firstly one who bends down to touch some one's feet loses his pride, means it is a act of humility. there are four functions to become divine, humble, devotion and love but the biggest of all is the guru. touching the feet of some one with divine knowledge brings in humility as well as they say attains some knowledge depending up the devotion of the person who touches some one's feet. as they say the spirituality is only learnt through above process. it cannot be taught but guided. last for a sikh to raise a question about touching someone's feet is some thing like western influence or rich. The rich does not miss God. he does not need to because his need s are fulfilled. only people who pray or miss God are those either poor who does not get to eat or some one with previously earned credits.


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 22, 2015)

swarn bains said:


> different people have different views about touching some one's feet.
> the intelligence is in the brain, that makes a person proud. now look at the water; the heavy things go down to the bottom. look at the wind; the heavy things fall to the ground. let us say that the knowledge also follows that system. that means there is some divine knowledge in the feet or around the feet of a divine person. firstly one who bends down to touch some one's feet loses his pride, means it is a act of humility. there are four functions to become divine, humble, devotion and love but the biggest of all is the guru. touching the feet of some one with divine knowledge brings in humility as well as they say attains some knowledge depending up the devotion of the person who touches some one's feet. as they say the spirituality is only learnt through above process. it cannot be taught but guided. last for a sikh to raise a question about touching someone's feet is some thing like western influence or rich. The rich does not miss God. he does not need to because his need s are fulfilled. only people who pray or miss God are those either poor who does not get to eat or some one with previously earned credits.



Gravity???


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## swarn bains (Dec 23, 2015)

Page 410
this s for the scholar who objects to touching guru’s feet

ਆਸਾਵਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Āsāvarī mėhlā 5.
Aasaavaree, Fifth Mehl:

ਮਿਲਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਸੁ ਗਾਈਐ ਹਾਂ ॥
Mil har jas gā▫ī▫ai hāŉ.
Meeting together, let us sing the Praises of the Lord,

ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਹਾਂ ॥
Param paḏ pā▫ī▫ai hāŉ.
and attain the supreme state.

ਉਆ ਰਸ ਜੋ ਬਿਧੇ ਹਾਂ ॥
U▫ā ras jo biḏẖe hāŉ.
Those who obtain that sublime essence,

ਤਾ ਕਉ ਸਗਲ ਸਿਧੇ ਹਾਂ ॥
Ŧā ka▫o sagal siḏẖe hāŉ.
obtain all of the spiritual powers of the Siddhas.

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਜਾਗਿਆ ਹਾਂ ॥
An▫ḏin jāgi▫ā hāŉ.
They remain awake and aware night and day;

ਨਾਨਕ ਬਡਭਾਗਿਆ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Nānak badbẖāgi▫ā mere manā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Nanak, they are blessed by great good fortune, O my mind. ||1||Pause||

*ਸੰਤ ਪਗ ਧੋਈਐ ਹਾਂ ॥
Sanṯ pag ḏẖo▫ī▫ai hāŉ.
Let us wash the feet of the Saints;

ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਖੋਈਐ ਹਾਂ ॥
Ḏurmaṯ kẖo▫ī▫ai hāŉ.
our evil-mindedness shall be cleansed.*

ਦਾਸਹ ਰੇਨੁ ਹੋਇ ਹਾਂ ॥
Ḏāsah ren ho▫e hāŉ.
Becoming the dust of the feet of the Lord's slaves,

ਬਿਆਪੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ਹਾਂ ॥
Bi▫āpai ḏukẖ na ko▫e hāŉ.
one shall not be afflicted with pain.

ਭਗਤਾਂ ਸਰਨਿ ਪਰੁ ਹਾਂ ॥
Bẖagṯāŉ saran par hāŉ.
Taking to the Sanctuary of His devotees,

ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਕਦੇ ਮਰੁ ਹਾਂ ॥
Janam na kaḏe mar hāŉ.
he is no longer subject to birth and death.

ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਸੇ ਭਏ ਹਾਂ ॥
Asthir se bẖa▫e hāŉ.
They alone become eternal,

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਜਪਿ ਲਏ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨਾ ॥੧॥
Har har jinĥ jap la▫e mere manā. ||1||
who chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, O my mind. ||1||

ਸਾਜਨੁ ਮੀਤੁ ਤੂੰ ਹਾਂ ॥
Sājan mīṯ ṯūŉ hāŉ.
You are my Friend, my Best Friend.

ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇ ਮੂੰ ਹਾਂ ॥
Nām driṛ▫ā▫e mūŉ hāŉ.
Please, implant the Naam, the Name of the Lord, within me.

ਤਿਸੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਹਿ ਕੋਇ ਹਾਂ ॥
Ŧis bin nāhi ko▫e hāŉ.
Without Him, there is not any other.

ਮਨਹਿ ਅਰਾਧਿ ਸੋਇ ਹਾਂ ॥
Manėh arāḏẖ so▫e hāŉ.
Within my mind, I worship Him in adoration.

ਨਿਮਖ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਹਾਂ ॥
Nimakẖ na vīsrai hāŉ.
I do not forget Him, even for an instant.

ਤਿਸੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਕਿਉ ਸਰੈ ਹਾਂ ॥
Ŧis bin ki▫o sarai hāŉ.
How can I live without Him?

ਗੁਰ ਕਉ ਕੁਰਬਾਨੁ ਜਾਉ ਹਾਂ ॥
Gur ka▫o kurbān jā▫o hāŉ.
I am a sacrifice to the Guru.

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਪੇ ਨਾਉ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨਾ ॥੨॥੫॥੧੬੧॥
Nānak jape nā▫o mere manā. ||2||5||161||
Nanak, chant the Name, O my mind. ||2||5||161||​Edited to add full shabad. -Ishna


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## Ishna (Dec 23, 2015)

Since Guru Sahib Ji is ultimately Prabh itself, described as best one can through our Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, where are the Guru's feet that we should be touching, @swarn bains ji?

Why isn't there a more visible expression of feet washing throughout Sikh history?

Why aren't people lining up to wash the feet of the Gyanis and kirtanees in our Gurdwara Sahibs?

Genuine questions. 

Additionally, I'm not sure I've seen Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji describe that spiritual knowledge or wisdom is literally contained in the feet of people.  Where does this notion come from?  It sounds like pseudoscience, and an attempt to justify an otherwise random physical ritual.  If one understands the real reason for such an action, then a pseudoscientific justification is irrelevant.  *The idea of giving respect to Saints, acknowledging their level of humility and making yourself humble is all the justification required.*


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## namritanevaeh (Dec 24, 2015)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Not really. One gets the shoes back that have been cleaned/polished.


You get your coat back too from a coat check...at the end of the evening when you leave, anyhow.


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## namritanevaeh (Dec 24, 2015)

swarn bains said:


> last for a sikh to raise a question about touching someone's feet is some thing like western influence or rich. The rich does not miss God. he does not need to because his need s are fulfilled. only people who pray or miss God are those either poor who does not get to eat or some one with previously earned credits.



The idea of having knowledge in your feet, or any other part of your body, can make some amount of sense. To an extent.

Personally I could care less what people touch and find holy. I was addressing what I considered a bit of a double standard, if it is on the one hand ok to clean shoes and touch feet some places but not ok to turn your feet towards ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ and some other areas where I have an idea that people are trying to insinuate that feet are dirtier than other things like your head or hands maybe.


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## namritanevaeh (Dec 24, 2015)

Ishna said:


> Additionally, I'm not sure I've seen Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji describe that spiritual knowledge or wisdom is literally contained in the feet of people.  Where does this notion come from?  It sounds like pseudoscience, and an attempt to justify an otherwise random physical ritual.  If one understands the real reason for such an action, then a pseudoscientific justification is irrelevant.  *The idea of giving respect to Saints, acknowledging their level of humility and making yourself humble is all the justification required.*



I agree it sounds like pseudoscience. Honestly there's a lot of things that people do that strike me as empty rituels at times. What I also find fascinating is how for example Wicca says that rituels are important. And I doubt they'd label many of them empty, because if something feels right to you and you do it for that reason why should it be meaningless, even if to the next person over, it's perhaps meaningless? Where it becomes a problem I think is if you are insisting that someone else should do the same thing you do, even if it doesn't feel right to them.


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 24, 2015)

swarn bains said:


> Page 410
> this s for the scholar who objects to touching guru’s feet
> 
> ਆਸਾਵਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
> ...



Who is that scholar you claim?


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 24, 2015)

namritanevaeh said:


> You get your coat back too from a coat check...at the end of the evening when you leave, anyhow.



 But you do not get it back dry cleaned. You get it back the way you dropped it, with stains. 

This is not the case in Jhori Ghar where your shoes are cleaned and polished before handing over back to you.


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## Sikh Warrior Light (Dec 26, 2015)

Wow. Much ado about nothing. We are all seekers. We have touched feet AND declined to touch feet in our paths. It is a path and it is yours. If you find coat checks a bother then don't coat check. Just jump in the cold shower without testing waters first. Some like it that way.


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## namritanevaeh (Dec 29, 2015)

Tejwant Singh said:


> But you do not get it back dry cleaned. You get it back the way you dropped it, with stains.
> 
> This is not the case in Jhori Ghar where your shoes are cleaned and polished before handing over back to you.


Aah I didn't quite realize that was what you meant!


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## namritanevaeh (Dec 29, 2015)

Sikh Warrior Light said:


> Wow. Much ado about nothing. We are all seekers. We have touched feet AND declined to touch feet in our paths. It is a path and it is yours. If you find coat checks a bother then don't coat check. Just jump in the cold shower without testing waters first. Some like it that way.


Did you read what I wrote earlier? I don't mind touching feet. I don't have hang ups about feet actually unlike some people I come across. As I don't have a problem with coat checks either.

I was addressing why feet are both ok to touch and yet not ok to turn towards ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ. It had nothing to do with coat checks originally.


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