# False Prophets!



## Singhvj (Mar 9, 2005)

Religions that have mediators between man and God are false.

*The Danger of a Mediator*
“Slavery and thraldom of the worst kind ever follows in the train of ‘gurudom’ (prophethood), it utterly enfeebles men morally, intellectually and spiritually.” The Last Reformer

Regards,
Vijai Singh
http://www.vjsingh.com


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## Critical Singh (Mar 9, 2005)

Namastae Vijay Singh ji, can you do any better than cutting and pasting stuff by Swami ji, your guru, your master.  Why should i follow your Guru and not my Guru ? 

What is your personal understanding of above statement ? Why do you, yourself, seem to follow Swami ji ? I would love to hear something from your own thinking ? Please do share.

I could not understand the context of the arguement by Swami ji. He is again opposing others philosophy ? So he is only contradicting his own statement that you posted somewhere else in this forum.

We will discuss.

Namastae


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## Singhvj (Mar 10, 2005)

Critical Singh said:
			
		

> Namastae Vijay Singh ji, can you do any better than cutting and pasting stuff by Swami ji, your guru, your master.


What can be better than the truth? A truth that only a true guru, as Swami Dayanand, was capable of disseminating fearlessly when the whole of India, Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Jews were his adversaries.


			
				Critical Singh said:
			
		

> Why should i follow your Guru and not my Guru ?


Your Guru was a quack, a good reason to follow my guru who brought nothing new but reformed the ancient religion of the Aryas, the first religion of the world.


			
				Critical Singh said:
			
		

> What is your personal understanding of above statement ? Why do you, yourself, seem to follow Swami ji ? I would love to hear something from your own thinking ? Please do share.


My site is everything about my "own thinking". You see the truth is one, it is for all in all ages and all wise men propagate it the same way because their thoughts are in harmony with each other. So when you too have become wise, your thinking can be no different from mine as mine is with my guru and his guru before that.


			
				Critical Singh said:
			
		

> I could not understand the context of the arguement by Swami ji. He is again opposing others philosophy ? So he is only contradicting his own statement that you posted somewhere else in this forum.


You will have to ingrain good reasoning habits to understand the context of my argument. Since your intellect is of the static nature, then everything I say will be contradictory to you. So why not be sensible and peruse my site and show me where the swami or I have contradicited ourselves.
Here is more on Sikhism - you will love it.
Namaste,
Vj


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## vijaydeep Singh (Mar 10, 2005)

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh
Jaikara Veer Bajrangi Har Har Mahadev!

sounds like zengoism.

Your 'true' Guru Dayanand was beaten by chapals in Benaras by Pandits as he is anti hindu.

Well there were three times that a Raigur who converted to Sikhism called DitSingh Made your Pandit Dayanand a humble pie.

Dayananda did bring light of aceint Aryas is not true?

so he became mediator to truth for you.Ya Our Guru was not like your as you think him to be quack.

Our Guru is one Who Made your Vedas.Our Guru Vahi Guru Gurubar Akal is God self.That God lives in US.So there could be a differance between you and your Guru.But we are one with our Guru.

Our Guru is Sakshat Parbram and no one else.That Guru is still guiding the fingers of das to answer you while typeing on keyboard.

Just tell Das from where Dayanand got Vedas and from where he got teaching.By exiting world.That world was his Guru. And in Each atom of world our Guru lives.So Guru of your Guru is our Guru.

We are in fact Gurubhai of your Guru.

Just tell Das how is your God and Why Dayananda could act,speak or do something? Why he ate and why  he digested?

by the way.As a Khalsa we enjoy the position of Guru.We are Khalsa as we purely in God we have faith.And no Guru no book no prophet and no maiah or no can come in between us and God.

But can you define God? How is God ,Where does God lives? And are Laws of nature always absolute?

Akal Sahai!

If some one reads Satyarth Prakash,

It appears that Dayand Swami Ji were themselves a false founder of False faith by False interpetation of Holy Vedas.


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## Singhvj (Mar 10, 2005)

vijaydeep Singh said:
			
		

> sounds like zengoism.
> 
> Your 'true' Guru Dayanand was beaten by chapals in Benaras by Pandits as he is anti hindu.
> 
> Well there were three times that a Raigur who converted to Sikhism called DitSingh Made your Pandit Dayanand a humble pie.


There is no question left unanswered by me against any of the religion I have condemned. One of the greatest evil of sikhism is wearing of a turban, it fries (heated) up the brains and leaves the wearer brainless to reason. I have done my duty by posting my site here and those desirous of truth must go where the it is.
Regards,
Vj


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## vijaydeep Singh (Mar 10, 2005)

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Well this thing you are telling to a person who under went mundan Sanskar(Shaving of head in childhood).

But on attaining adulthood became one With uncut hairs and turban.

This person Das vijaydeep Singh. finds that his mind is more cool then without turban.

Well if you wear Turban and have Kes(uncut Hair) and have Faith in Akal.Then you could understand.Das think you have not expirance like that brother.

By the way in Satyarth Prakash your Swami Dayananda Ji were also look very much angry may be he was wearing a turban too!

You may now feel angrey without turban.In Nihungs Dayanand is a hero of Comedy but for Das he is for tragedy. ohyeah:

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Das can only request brother vjsingh Ji to read and understand Vedas again and do not understand us Dayanand Ji understood it.

There is no book which can bind God who is in nature and in universe and if anyone say that Veda do it then he needs to understand truth a bit more.Das did see your site long ago.

As a Nirmala studying Vedas since Vishnu Second Sikh of Gurubar Akal and of the world.Das can say that holy Vedas are scriptures of Sikhism and Arya Samaj or Dayanand does not know the true meaning of them.

Example

cow is Aghnya as it does not kill anyone and not Aghnya for not to be killed.In Sanskrit there are many words with one word having even underred meaning like go is cow as well as Indri or senses.


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## ravisingh (Mar 10, 2005)

SinghVj,

Can you defend your views without maligning others?


> Your Guru was a quack, a good reason to follow my guru who brought nothing new but reformed the ancient religion of the Aryas, the first religion of the world.


 
It only weakens your position if you are unable to answer a question but instead resort to name calling.  You will find that in this forum we are respectful of each others beliefs and try to stick to arguing the positions in a rational manner.  For example taking your "first religion of the world" claim:

BAD:who cares if it was the first religion of the world it is stupid

GOOD:What follows from the belief that Aryanism was the first religion of the world (it wasn't by the way)?  Does first neccesarily mean better?  The first scientific theory on the position of earth in the universe was that it was the centre of the universe and everything revolved around it.  It is not better then the commonly held current view on the position of the earth because it was first.

Also do you have any evidence for this disrespectful statement:



> One of the greatest evil of sikhism is wearing of a turban, it fries (heated) up the brains and leaves the wearer brainless to reason


 
Does it also follow from this that people that wear shoes can't run fast because their feet warm up?  Or none of the great thinkers who ever wore any head coverings were rational?  However, I suppose you can discount all of what I say because I am wearing a turban and am irrational on the basis of this.

I am also uncertain as to your persuasion strategy.  Is your strategy to baselessly attack people's beliefs and be blatantly disrespectful so that they will find your views more persuasive?  Has this ever worked for you? I have a suggestion for a different strategy for you that would be far more effective in a philosophical (dare I say any) forum:

1.state your position as clearly as possible with careful reasoning
2.be respectful of others' beliefs (ie. don't resport to name calling or other ad hominem attacks)
3.if someone raises a point that goes against yours do not give a knee jerk reaction but rather consider it and respond after giving it some thought.
4.be open to adjusting your position if new information becomes available.

I think that you will find the above strategy to be more effective than the one you have been employing so far.  Ultimately, I think we all come to forums such as this to grow as individuals.  If we come with an open mind and are respectful to one another it can be a positive and an uplifting experience.

Kind regards to all,

Ravi Singh


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## Archived_member2 (Mar 10, 2005)

Satsriakal to all and Singhvj Ji!

Are you the result of following Swami Dayananad Ji?

It is shame to you for bringing dishonor to your existence.

You don't have to prove that you have a master and Vedic knowledge.

True Sikhs are already convinced.


Balbir Singh


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## Neutral Singh (Mar 10, 2005)

*Ignorance is a Bliss*



			
				Singhvj said:
			
		

> There is no question left unanswered by me against any of the religion I have condemned. One of the greatest evil of sikhism is wearing of a turban, it fries (heated) up the brains and leaves the wearer brainless to reason. *I have done my duty by posting my **site **here and those desirous of truth must go where the it is.*
> Regards,
> Vj


 
Welcome singhvj to SPN,

With due respect, you have done your duty by posting a link to your website but due to 'static nature' of your website, you have left no option for seekers to enable them to openly discuss your 'hatred' against all religions. Unfortunately, static nature only reflects the weakness in your arguements on your website that you cannot indulge in open discussions. Someone has rightly said "Ignorance is a Divine Bliss..." 

I hope you continue to visit SPN on regular basis, as some of us would love to hear your understanding on various spiritual issues...

Enjoy & have fun !! 

Best Regards


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## BabbarSher (Mar 11, 2005)

Some people like vjsingh go about propagating faleshood in the name of truth. Such people despite being bashed intellectually and repeatedly do not feel any shame rather go on repating a point, under the influence that repeating falsehood ....will make it sound like truth. 

This is NOT TRUE any more .. !! 

As a starting point the advise to vj singh is to go and read a book by Dandi Sanyasi - Ram Tirath Ji about whats Vedas, puranas etc. actually contain and why Guru Granth Sahib is the Sarbottam Dhrama Granth. 

Our friends the moderators are truely very moderate, but you wont find BabbarSher lacking in aggressivenes.. rest assured... ur remarks will be met by matching remarks.. 

More or less Dayanands rants were dismissed as nothing more than quacking of a daffy duck.. a mad old man of India. 

So which dieteies are you worshipping now.. Varuna ...poor thing,, he was so beaten by Vishnu that people forgot to worship him ;-)

I guess you should be doing Asmedh Yagya soon, so that you can conquer Saudi Arabia and US etc.. or is it that George Bush is a Aryan instead of Christian and you performed the same for him so that he could conquer all of middle east ..hmm 

"""My site is everything about my "own thinking"."""

Your own thinking.. What happened to your Gurus thinking.. Wasnt he the One True Guru ... blah blah blah.. anyway we know you are a Manmattia .. and we know thats the reason of your madness ...so no need to elaborate .. 

Great .. All hail the wise old mean of India .. There are examples of your wiseness on your website.. did you  pass out of primary school as yet .. or still stuck somewhere... 

""One of the greatest evil of sikhism is wearing of a turban, it fries (heated) up the brains and leaves the wearer brainless to reason.""

lol... looks like your Swamis brain also got fried.. when he walked in the sun with his bald pate... so to cover it up he resorted to wearing the turban.. 

Only could find 2 types of pics of the swami.. one where he is rund mund and the other with a turban.. 

U dodo.. the turban prevented deep frying of his brain .. and if there is anything of sense that came out of the Swamis mouth it was because of the turban.. 

Ajje we time hai... start following ur guru ... start wearing the turban.. u will save some brain


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## FireStorm (Mar 11, 2005)

Looks like VJsingh has accepted defeat.. 

People like him know nothing but hatred.. how can one who hates so much love anything.. It is one thing to criticise constructively, another to be stupidily degrading. 

I think he seriously lacks intellectual and grey matter, otherwise he would be willing to come out in the open and challenge people to debate.. in forums. Rather he has chosen the more easy method of writing down his views, creating web pages and just shrugging of ideas of discussion. 

vj it is very simple.. the rules of this forum require you to discuss .. without being degrading .. this is not a marketing forum for you to give your links without defending them. 

One way communication is not encouraged.. 

It is very interesting to note that your True Guru was defeated by a gursikh of Guru Nanak Ji not once but many a times.. The whole conversation is documented and has also been published by eminent newspapers. :advocate: So its quite hilarious when we find a chela of this one true guru .. ;-) coming up and challenging the roots of sikhi, making false claims and setting up a poorly designed and written website. Are you going to do your own thinking and not follow ur one true gurus teachings .. ?? hmm looks like u r a guru in the making . keep it up .. :whisling:

Truly.. Maya has great influence on people and for eons they stay away from the light of God..


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## Singhvj (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: Ignorance is a Bliss*



			
				Aman Singh said:
			
		

> Welcome singhvj to SPN,


Thank you Aman Singhji and I am indeed happy to be here.


			
				Aman Singh said:
			
		

> With due respect, you have done your duty by posting a link to your website but due to 'static nature' of your website, you have left no option for seekers to enable them to openly discuss your 'hatred' against all religions.


 Maybe you missed by discussion boards where free speech is always guaranteed, in spite of how ignorant or intelligent one may be. I hate what is false and a religion that is a breach to reason, science and natural laws is false. The hatred you refer to belong to those (Nanak, Muhammad, Christ, Budha, etc.) who invented new religions. Had they truly respected them, as you now claim, they would have embraced one of prevailing ones of their time. Do you know why they didn't, if it was not hate?


			
				Aman Singh said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, static nature only reflects the weakness in your arguements on your website that you cannot indulge in open discussions. Someone has rightly said "Ignorance is a Divine Bliss..."


So why did you invite me over here when you were fully aware before of my weaknesses to indulge in open discussions? I cannot respond to everyone here but whoever is desirous of the truth, my discussion boards are open for them. And certainly, if Swami Dayanand was defeated by one of your Sikh gurus, then it should be no problem for any sikhs to defeat me in a dialogue.


			
				Aman Singh said:
			
		

> I hope you continue to visit SPN on regular basis, as some of us would love to hear your understanding on various spiritual issues...
> 
> Enjoy & have fun !!
> Best Regards


 It seems we already have an issue, many are offended because of my joy and fun in exposing what is false. All the mediators that have come throught out the ages to bring a new religion are quacks, and Guru Nanak is no exception. All these hypocrites did, were, they brought divisions not only against other religions, but even their own. Look how many sects they are in every religion, if there were any truth in them, how come they are so divided? Yes the Vedic religion was the first and like a child who is born pure and innocent so too was the first religion (Vedic) born pure and innocent to the world. 
Regards,
Vj
http://www.vjsingh.com


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## Arvind (Mar 11, 2005)

Vijai Singh ji (ID Singhvj),

I suggest to keep your webpages not static ones, so that you can discuss the issues instead of just expressing your views. Then u may realize what hole you have blocked yourself in.

Further, Sikhs' kesh and turban have specific importance. I would love to discuss with you, for your atam-gyan. In case of your willingness, please feel free to express your views and a desire to learn. 

Regards, Arvind.

PS: Ravi Singh ji mentioned ethics of a discussion, let us stick to those. Thanks.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Mar 11, 2005)

Akal Sahai

dear Singhvj!

It is you have come here not we go for you.

And we do not have time to go for thotha(useless) Bakwad(talkitiveness) your < mod cut> Guru started that is the reason that you stand no where today.

Then it was mere a humble Sikh like Das who broke the logic of dayananad based upon Brahmsutra(you may not have herad or read it.Had you done then you would have been a Sikh).

Well As a Sikh Das is Hindu,Muslim ,Budhist and Christian all at one time.But you are hardly a follower of any religeon.Yuor are Nastik(non Beliver).While talking to you is like talking sorry like reciting a flute in the front of buffalo.Bhans Ke Age been Bajana.

Das will tell the truth about your Arya Samaj as his Grand father from mother side also harps like you.And eats an humble pie.Das will tell you about yuor Vedas and do answer them here .Just wait and let him type..

Moderator's Note: Please maintain your calm. Thanks.

So Dear singhvj Ji

Das is givng a link over here and come here and answer the questions
http://www.sikhphilosophy.com/sikhphilosophy/showthread.php?p=8308#post8308

Das has lots of work and like you Das is not wasteing his spare time(as empty mind is home of satan).

So Das is not going to got to your area but if you want it is your duty to come and discuss with das on that link.Das was to join his work from next week and was to give two important issue's an end.due to telling the history of your creed Das had  waste a whole day.

Das wants you to laugh A LOT  and make fun of belivers be it Hindu be it Sikh
be it Christian or be it Muslim.That will only the fasten the end of your creed from the face of the earth.

Perhaps Akal has created you so that you make fun of us.And our faith in Akal becomes stronger and let world has a lesson by sorry state your cult reaches by doing this sin in evil era of Kaliyuga.

May Akal Bless you and may you write more such things.But rember that in dark if someone lighten a bit of lamp and little bit space aroound could be seen.That does not that there is nothing beyond where light goes.There are eyes on which darkness does not effect.They can see in Dark without light.

Das refuse to accept the explantion done on Veda by nayik Mat or Swami Dayannand as logical.They are false.Vedas are not false but those who misinterpret them are false.


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## Singhstah (Mar 11, 2005)

> Originally Posted by Critical Singh
> Why should i follow your Guru and not my Guru ?
> 
> Your Guru was a quack, a good reason to follow my guru who brought nothing new but reformed the ancient religion of the Aryas, the first religion of the world.


 
<Mod Cut>

Moderator's Note: Lot of profanities in this post. Please maintain a discussion oriented culture. Thanks.

Singhstah veer,   If you disagree, talk to me via PMs.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Mar 11, 2005)

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Dear Singhstah Ji,

Kindly maintain your cool.If opponents enragres you he wins the half battle.

Singhvj Ji 

Kindly visit

www.sarbloh.info

and after reading it rewrite your essay on debunking Sikhism.

Jo Bole So Abhay,Sanatan Dharam Ki Jai


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## FireStorm (Mar 12, 2005)

""And certainly, if Swami Dayanand was defeated by one of your  Sikh gurus, then it should be no problem for any  sikhs to defeat me in a dialogue.""

lol lol lol .. where did u get this joker from? Aman.. u have been drinking Lassi again.. man I warned u it can be dangerous 

*Daynand ji maharaj ohyeah: (ur Guru) was defeated by a humble sikh Gyani Ditt Singh Ji.. They say ur Guru ran away with tears of humiliation in his eyes.  ( I think u dont read posts or history or articles or for that matter anything...like Vijaydeep said, I guess u did not even read vedas. )

Did u even see the photos of ur Guru..with a turban... poor thing..always opposed turbans and wanted to be rund mund .. but only a turban could save his egg pate from frying. (as BabbarSher pointed out)
*
Anyway we are not very knowledgable sikhs.. just a bunch of people trying to know about sikhi...but I think all will agree that it wont take much to outclass you.. with philosophy of Gurmat. (outclass is a too classya word for too unclassy a person like urself)

Why like mentioned above, a Dandi Sanyasi himself exposed the Vedas and their contents openly. 

*Discuss all that you want to ..right here right now and u wont find us backing away.. or lacking.. *

Anyway what does Indra eat nowdays .. ? The meat of a Bull ? errr isnt that written in the Vedas.. 

U havent addressed any questions from a lot of people in this thread itself..so better start addressing them...go and ask ur Guru for help .. 

:whisling:


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## Neutral Singh (Mar 13, 2005)

Well, i think he has asked for sometime to respond all these queries raised by you and others... so, let us give him all the time in this world to reply to our queries. Let us be fair with him. 

Regards


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## Singhvj (Mar 20, 2005)

Aman Singh said:
			
		

> Well, i think he has asked for sometime to respond all these queries raised by you and others... so, let us give him all the time in this world to reply to our queries. Let us be fair with him.
> Regards


Where is the fairness in this dialogue?
I asked earlier 
"Maybe you missed by discussion boards where free speech is always guaranteed, in spite of how ignorant or intelligent one may be. I hate what is false and a religion that is a breach to reason, science and natural laws is false. The hatred you refer to belong to those (Nanak, Muhammad, Christ, Budha, etc.) who invented new religions. Had they truly respected them, as you now claim, they would have embraced one of prevailing ones of their time. Do you know why they didn't, if it was not hate?"

Can any of the Sikhs, especially those who claimed Dayanandji was defeated in a debate, respond to the above (in red) statement?


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## Archived_member2 (Mar 20, 2005)

Satsriakal to all and VJ Singh Ji!
With God's Hukum one gets birth and sings the praise of His creation.

With God's Hukum another one gets birth and hates His activities. These activites include birth of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Sikhs.

I am sorry to say that I could well understand why Dayanand Ji wrote so much against other religions in his book 'satyaarth Prakaash'.

Perhaps Dayanand Ji had found God in all. Also, he might have found hate and anger godly.

Is this the case with you also?


Balbir Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Mar 21, 2005)

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

As swami Dayanad Ji created a new interpetaTION Of Vedas unprecednetedly in christianised way so his Chela Singhvj Ji are thinking same for Jesus,Prophet Mohamud(PBUH) ,And Guru Nanakdev JI.


It is only binding of God with some human or with book that is casue of strife.

So Jesus only preached the God of jews and enable others to be Jew.Chritinaity is nothing but humanity.And any humane person is Christian.

Then Prophet preahed they same God which was mentioned in Bible.Islam is on earth till first man Adem Ahle Salla.And to surrender to Allah is Islam.

Then Guru Nanak Dev Ji preached the same God who is mentioed in Veda and Kateebs.Any person who see God in all and that God as Guru is Sikh(desiple) of That Gurubar Akal(Eternal Guru).

Perhaps Swami Dayanand Ji were born and died.He was born out of Our Guru eternal God.And our Guru only Killed him.

Perhaps not today but when you leave your body at that time you will understand what das was saying.Singhvj Ji best of luck.


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## Arvind (Mar 21, 2005)

vijaydeep Singh said:
			
		

> He was born out of Our Guru eternal God.And our Guru only Killed him.


Dear veer,

Please shed more light on this. I couldnt comprehend this!

Regards.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Mar 21, 2005)

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Our Guru is 

Adi Ant Eke Avatara Soi Guru Samjhio Hamara.

Das can prove the same with Four Vedas or Four Sematic books or Three books of Sikhs that since inception(this is realtive term) to end(again realtive) there is only one incarnation and that is our Guru.

That is Akal.

Who is Sabka Kal.Sabhan Ka Karta.(Creator of All and killer of All).

Das knows that Singhvj Ji do not know that.

One who made Veda why can not the same make more books.That is not bouonded by any.Yes those who try to bind that are themselve bounded by hell(again a realitive term).


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## vijaydeep Singh (Mar 21, 2005)

Gufateh!



> Maybe you missed by discussion boards where free speech is always guaranteed, in spite of how ignorant or intelligent one may be. I hate what is false and a religion that is a breach to reason, science and natural laws is false. The hatred you refer to belong to those (Nanak, Muhammad, Christ, Budha, etc.) who invented new religions. Had they truly respected them, as you now claim, they would have embraced one of prevailing ones of their time. Do you know why they didn't, if it was not hate?"




This could be the view of any typical bigot be it Hindu,Sikh,Arya Samaji or say Chrristian.

As for blind there is always darkness.And for blind one with light are liers or actualy not seeing light but they also are in darkness as blind.

Well Das can say

Jews consider Christ as jew and many Hindu consider him yogi.Muslims also consider him as Prophet.As he was for world and not for any one faith.He preached Dhram or faith in God and  not any other reilgeon.

Das wanted that let thier be a gnostic churchs christian come who like many other parts of Chritian world consider Prophet Mohamud(PBUH) as one who preached Christianity. Sikhism approves God in him also.

Then when we talk of ouor Guru Nanak Dev Ji,He is considered Muslims by many devot Muslims,Thier are in fact parts of Islam who live as he told them to live.Thier are Budhist Lamas who consider him as reincarnations of Mahapadmasambhav.There are Hindu Puran who call him incarnation of Shiva.Then many Christians say that he was one who preached Christianity(according to them Guru was one with Christians on way back from south).

Das as a Sikh can say that his Guru was Sikh of Akal.So he was with all as his Guru Akal by self is nither Muslim,nor Sikh,nor Arya Samaji nor Hindu nor Christian.

There were since then many people who are like that and are true Sikh of Akal.but tjier were mnay since begining of this cycle of creation or since start of all cycles of creations.

They all are respected and not hated by belvers as thier faith is God only and Faith is Akal.But Swami Dayanand Ji did not have any faith At all so he or his follower have to have faith in god first of all then they will understand that there is nothing called hate.

If Singhvj Ji want Das can help.a therapist can help someone sick to recover someone who can not hear can made to hear by therpies but subject to sick persons own willing ness.So only if our God Akal who is in singhvj also and trying to test our devotion to self wants singhvj to recover and understand the truth then only something frutifull can occur.

As Ninth Nanak  Said,Abhi Kuchh Bigro Nahin ,it is still no too late.

Das realy feels happy and amused to see Arya Samaji logic.

Das realy gets a good time to see them figthing among themselves for money or with other faiths to prove that they are wrong or others are wrong Khandan Mandan.

Like father loves to see childeren fighting God also may get a sort of amusement.


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## Singhvj (Mar 21, 2005)

vijaydeep Singh said:
			
		

> Jews consider Christ as jew and many Hindu consider him yogi.Muslims also consider him as Prophet.As he was for world and not for any one faith.He preached Dhram or faith in God and not any other reilgeon.


Vj ~ Consider yourself an idiot to speak of Christ when you haven't read the Bible. Here is why, Christ said, "I am the way, the life and the truth and only true me you can come to the father." So why would sikhs, Jews, hindus,  muslims consider him a Jew, yogi and prophet when he meant that they all will rot in hell for all eternity. Get it lamebrain!


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## vijaydeep Singh (Mar 21, 2005)

Gurfateh

Das is an Idiot and can understand that Jesus said that there is no differnace between him and his Father(Akal God of Sikhs).

That Father is actualy the way.Who spoke in Jesus and Krishana in Geeta and in Veda.

Yes Das is an ideot as Das leant bible from Both Jesuits,Hebrinal,Penticostals as well as Yehova witness.And they all point to Akal.

Das is not that much ideot that he will read it as an Arya Samaji read it.

Gurfateh,

When Jesus spoke,it was holy ghost entered in him as dove(this is only a symbol to tell of Brahm Gyan) entered it.

In that state we are not ourselve but God who overtakes our mind.And God only speaks.Spritual Chritians undeerstand and by this you can take Das also as a Chrisitian.

Akal Sahai,

till one does not reach the state of Jesus one can not tell what actualy Akal said while being in him.Akal is in you also.

Akal Sahai,
At that time he was the only way.But always destination is Akal.And Way is Akal.


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## Arvind (Mar 21, 2005)

Singhvj said:
			
		

> Vj ~ Consider yourself an idiot to speak of Christ when you haven't read the Bible. Here is why, Christ said, "I am the way, the life and the truth and only true me you can come to the father." So why would sikhs, Jews, hindus, muslims consider him a Jew, yogi and prophet when he meant that they all will rot in hell for all eternity. Get it lamebrain!


Moderator Note: Member Singhvj, Kindly respect members. I recommend you reading the forum rules. Otherwise Next time, it will be a warning note for you.

Thanks.


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## Singhvj (Mar 21, 2005)

vijaydeep Singh said:
			
		

> When Jesus spoke,it was holy ghost entered in him as dove(this is only a symbol to tell of Brahm Gyan) entered it.


 
*USE A CIVIL TONGUE VJSINGH*


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## Neutral Singh (Mar 21, 2005)

Dear Vijay Singh, 

You are begining to disappoint me with your low level mannerism... Does Aryan Religion advocate such kind of an attitude towards fellow human beings? If you think by using *intimidating language* you are pressing upon a point in a pressing way then let me tell you that you are reducing yourself to a mere laughing stock.

May I request you to please present your philosophy in a more decent & humble way as you would expect from others. 

Take Care,

Regards


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## Singhstah (Mar 22, 2005)

singhvj your starting to anyyoy me, ****DELETED***** DEBATE THE ISSUE NOT THE PERSON.


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## Singhvj (Mar 22, 2005)

Aman Singh said:
			
		

> Dear Vijay Singh,
> You are begining to disappoint me with your low level mannerism...


You do not know this yet, but your religion is even lower than my "low level of mannerism".


			
				Aman Singh said:
			
		

> Does Aryan Religion advocate such kind of an attitude towards fellow human beings?


 Yes it does, 
*“Let him say what is good for another even though it may offend.”* Light of Truth



			
				Aman Singh said:
			
		

> If you think by using *intimidating language* you are pressing upon a point in a pressing way then let me tell you that you are reducing yourself to a mere laughing stock.


And where do I seem to mind being made a laughing stock?



			
				Aman Singh said:
			
		

> May I request you to please present your philosophy in a more decent & humble way as you would expect from others.
> 
> Take Care,


 Truth is truth and has no other way of presenting it, but to tell it as it is. If a man is an idiot he should be told he is one, how else can he be cured? 
If according to sikhs Christ was truly a man of God, why did Nanak not embraced Christianity instead of inventing another religion? Or is it Nanak <mod cut>?
 Mod Note: Here goes your first warning, singhvj. Respect others to earn respect.




			
				Singhstah said:
			
		

> singhvj your starting to anyyoy me, jst cause yovue got a crap religion, u have to go criticise other peoles religion, GET A LIFE, maybe a job


If my religion is crap how come you are annoyed?


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## drkhalsa (Mar 22, 2005)

Dear Singh VJ

Many people on this forum dont know whether you speak so harsh language deliberately or ot is part of your personality
But I know you in much better way becuse of many reason , one is I have seen many dayanand chelas like you who have hardly done anything of significance in thier own life and also to any others life and the second reason I am currently doing my posting Psychiatry and I seen lot of personality disorders like you in clinic and you r behaviour is quoite typical of that ,this is basic of psychology that It is difficult for nay body to give respect and love to any body unless he has recieved any during child hood and other possibility is when somebody spends whole his life in conceptualism and practically doing nothing he start identifing himself with concept without even knowing practiality of the cocept and during last days of life he becomes jsut like you with lot of rejection to all the others without any practically reasoning and same could be possible for you r guru Dayanand . but any way either your childhood had been realy bad or your end is quite near and in both cases as clinician I have lot of sympathy for as I alwyas have for my patients 


> Originally Posted by *Singhstah*
> _singhvj your starting to anyyoy me, jst cause yovue got a crap religion, u have to go criticise other peoles religion, *GET A LIFE, maybe a job*_


So when a mere 13 year old kid ( *SINGHSTAH)* can accurately diagnose you r problem and tell you than you really dont like it , my advise is also *to you Get A life or May be a Job  , it will definately help you as it helps many of our patients *
Any way about the Guru Nanak dev ji accepting Christ and becoming christian 

You dont seem that dumb but some time you show this quite openely . Christ was not the christian and he never started christianity it was Peter who satarted it and christ never had a clue during his life time about starting christianity , so About Guru Nanak he accepted all that came before him and after him so there is no reason of thinking this that he rejected christ 

Jatinder Singh


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## Arvind (Mar 22, 2005)

Dear Friends,

Singhvj continues to display what he has learnt in his life-time. I urge you all to give him all the love and hugs his life is currently deprived of.  Once he feels fine, then a lighter discussion about religion etc may be started.

So here I go, big hug vj 

Regards.


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## Neutral Singh (Mar 23, 2005)

haanji , a double biggie huggie from me too  

Best Regards


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## Singhvj (Mar 23, 2005)

Arvind said:
			
		

> Dear Friends,
> Singhvj continues to display what he has learnt in his life-time. I urge you all to give him all the love and hugs his life is currently deprived of. Once he feels fine, then a lighter discussion about religion etc may be started.
> So here I go, big hug vj
> Regards.


 I have no enemies either my brother Arvindji and I am willing to embrace every humanbeing as you do, but it is not good enough to save a soul that has gone astray.

Ham baar baar bhagavan! karte tujhe namaste
Yadi dwesh bhaa-wa-naa ho, to nyaaya tere haste.

_We also thank thee for thy rule benign
Thy kind protection and thy blessings sweet
And those who are the dreaded foes of mine
I lay them humbly at Thy Gracious Feet._

The result of intellectual reasoning guided by the correct (true) knowledge is wisdom. Men who acquired this wisdom are the wisest of all mankind, they are humble (free of vanity and above insults), pure (free of disease), altruistic (whatever they write or preach is free of copyright), complete in righteousness (sinless) and blissful (state of perpetual happiness). Their intentions are always noble ones, not only for the cause of the liberation of the soul, but freedom from physical and mental anguish.

It is truly sad that our present age is populated with billions who are virtually densed in ignorance, that when a wise man does appear to disseminate the truth he is instead branded as intolerant, a liar, a hate-monger and out to offend those who do not agree with him. Yes, the law of karma has created these conditions confirming fully to the dictates of natural laws where progression (rightousness) is downwards. Compulsion being so, because of the conditions we are born in, only a very few will come to know of this truth, but a wise man must continue to disseminate the truth as it has become his nature to do so, in spite of whom it may offend, after all only he knows it is for one's own good.

There is only one true God and He is the God of the Vedas which is the source of the highest of ethics and morals and above all the source of all sciences. They are in harmony with reasoning and confirms with natural laws. The Vedas are the only revelation on this planet that is free of historical references and therefore justly proclaim themselves eternal for all creations, ours and whatever else are in existence in the unlimited sky of solar systems, past, present and future ones to come.

False gods are those born out of Hinduism, Zorastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Sikhism, Bahai, and all the other existing cults. All these false dogmas were connocted by evil men ignorant in nature who obviously were easily made saints among the gullible and whoever follows them is as guilty as they are in committing a thousand crimes. They depict God to be completely out of control and unjust by condemning all souls, opposing them and even those before and in remote regions who never heard of it to eternal hell of fire where there is no return. Neither are the faithfuls who submitted themselves are happy either, since they do so under the duress of constant fear, being always reminded of their lagging performance in worship and never giving enough (free labor and finance). When there are so much adversities (pain and suffering) in the world what else is preventing so many, if not ignorance, to reason that these dogmas have nothing to do with divine spirituality?

The sole reason the truth hurts is because people have been misled all their lives into believing that sins are forgiven and salvation a free gift, when instead, sins are not forgiven and salvation requires strenuous and continous effort of study and moreso, practice (yoga) to free the soul. Reincarnation is a just law by a just God, that all souls are subjected to punishment and reward fitting of their sins and virtues respectively. No soul is condemned to eternal hell nor granted eternal salvation since finite actions can only reap finite results. Emancipation is indeed a very long period because in happiness time flies while the period of pain and misery is very short, but appears to be longer since in pain, time seems to stand still. All souls are given the oppurtunity of salvation at some time, so when you are previleged with human birth make the best of the oppurtunity since no one desires pain.
Regards,
Vj


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## vijaydeep Singh (Mar 23, 2005)

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh


> So Das idiot tell me where was God when the holy ghost entered Christ?



First of of Das idiot  will tell that God was in Jesus like you are in your hand.

God entered in Jesus like holy ghost like your neurotranmitter enter in your hand to let it move as your brain want it to move.


Next thing.Guru Nanak DEv Ji were chrsitian as well As Muslim as well as Hindu.Problem here is that you are still to know God if you know God then only you could understand.

If Das want Das can make mockery of your Gayatri Mantra(it is relted to cow and sun) and of no use of today But Das knows that it was and it is God of Veda whcih all faith rever.

But again for Arya Samajis there is no God at all..while interacting with you Das could  say that Das will gain a good lot of expirance regarding how to deal with Al qaeda or Taliban in futre.

Problem is also with those evenglist who misinterprteed Angeel(it is new tesrtment and you do not know that it is translation you read and like Dayanand Ji did wrong translation of Vedas so did these translation in English from greek or Aramic may not be same as you precive).

Next thing comes here that as Brahmincal guys use to leanr  sanskrit in past and make others deprived of knowledge and use to interpret Vedas as they want.

Sam,e is done by Arya Samaj.Das as a Nirmala say that as Gurbani is there we do not have any need to read 4 Vedas 27 Samrits ,6 Darshan or 18 Purans as Gurbani has crux of all of them.Yes there are some irrelavant information which Aray Samajis also carry out just to show that they are more vedic.

Well Das can creat one of the God of Veda with his matchstick and and that God can reduce Vedas into Ashes.

As per our Maryada reading Vedas is only usefull if we know Gurmat correctly.So
Das is giving a link below regarding Vedas.Have a look but do not make fun of those scritputre as Das is not allowed by his orders of Nirmala to make fun.

But there could be many thing in ti which will make interpetation of Vedas as per Arya Samaj Jis funny.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/index.htm#vedas

Das can say one thing again that that link is provided to him by a person who is Hindu and Bajrang Dal.And as Das and other comrade did ponder we came to know that Dayanand phiolsohy is more anti vedic and Gurmat is actually complimentary to Vedas.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Mar 23, 2005)

Sarbloh Ki Raksha hamne


> I have no enemies either my brother Arvindji and I am willing to embrace every humanbeing as you do, but it is not good enough to save a soul that has gone astray.



Well if your Vedas and your Vedic God was strong enought then it would not have prevented souls to go astray(here this vedic God is God of Araya Samj or what they imaginne.

do you think soul exist then tell me where does it exist in body and tell das if you even have seen your own soul?



> Ham baar baar bhagavan! karte tujhe namaste
> Yadi dwesh bhaa-wa-naa ho, to nyaaya tere haste.



so do you think that this Dweesh Bhav was not created by God.This is a creation but not by God.(Dweesh bhav is feeling of envy/hatered and it could be the God of Dayanand).As per Gurmat one who has both Rag love and Dweesh as equal that is to be salvaged.



> We also thank thee for thy rule benign
> Thy kind protection and thy blessings sweet
> And those who are the dreaded foes of mine
> I lay them humbly at Thy Gracious Feet.



so you are very strong that you can bring foes of your God on the feet of him or her well your god is male or female?

This means that your God has no power and he kept you as his/her servent.A God who needs servent is incomplete so not a God but god.


> The result of intellectual reasoning guided by the correct (true) knowledge is wisdom. Men who acquired this wisdom are the wisest of all mankind, they are humble (free of vanity and above insults), pure (free of disease), altruistic (whatever they write or preach is free of copyright), complete in righteousness (sinless) and blissful (state of perpetual happiness). Their intentions are always noble ones, not only for the cause of the liberation of the soul, but freedom from physical and mental anguish



this means that Swami dayananda were not true man.He died of poison and did hated a prostitue.Well when withour listening to us by your own prefix notiation when you think of your infalliabilty and spread what haterd you have then can you are the same or this is only an imagination.Just tell das why you are like that das means why brain does get such qultiies from external factors or why man becomes like that?Give reason and not say like opther Arya Samajis that this is due to nature if it is due to nature then why nature does this or who makes nature to do like that.Das is yet to see any Arya Samaji with real eternal Happiness till he/she renounce Arya Samaj(mother of Das is one of them).



> It is truly sad that our present age is populated with billions who are virtually densed in ignorance, that when a wise man does appear to disseminate the truth he is instead branded as intolerant, a liar, a hate-monger and out to offend those who do not agree with him.



In mentaL asylum also there are many people who say that whole world is mad.So you are not the first one to say but Das wants that if possible consult our DR Khalsa who is a docter.


> Yes, the law of karma has created these conditions confirming fully to the dictates of natural laws where progression (rightousness) is downwards.



So there is a new factor called deeds or Karma other then nature.Just tell Das,What deed does a child does when he is born out of his father and mother it is due to intercoourse of them.What deed did child do?

Then mental frame of Child is made by genses and external eniveronemnt and that is there till death.From where the vedic hell Karmas come.And a sinbgle nuclera bomb can destroy the nature which you call true and any facotor of nautre can destroy human race.Both can destroy each other.So both are cancelling each other leading to zero.


> Compulsion being so, because of the conditions we are born in, only a very few will come to know of this truth, but a wise man must continue to disseminate the truth as it has become his nature to do so, in spite of whom it may offend, after all only he knows it is for one's own good.



This is subject to that 'wisemans' knowing the 'truth' himself.And if someone does it just by reading and expirimeanting by 5 decayable senses then one that is beyong sense as one who 'created' them may not be seen.Your case is just the same.You are after the waves but yet to see the sea.


> There is only one true God and He is the God of the Vedas which is the source of the highest of ethics and morals and above all the source of all sciences. They are in harmony with reasoning and confirms with natural laws. The Vedas are the only revelation on this planet that is free of historical references and therefore justly proclaim themselves eternal for all creations, ours and whatever else are in existence in the unlimited sky of solar systems, past, present and future ones to come.



Das has thirty more similar Vedas even with differnt verses.It is just like some one say that look i do not know the name of my father that means that i am from eternity.

Well you have told your level of solar system and past ,present and future till that only writers of Vedas reached.(as per you_)As if they were of perfect scince(as per you) then they would have made or broghut the areoplaNE  or sattlite from furue to thier era vai time machine.(Das know they did) As they were one beyond time so for then past,present and futre did not exist not did exist solar system as thier are billions of them around,Yes for Arya Samajis this one is of some use.

This emans that Vedas had past or time before them also.

This means that Vedas were made after solar system was made.

But do you have any perfect proof which can say that there was nothing 'truth' writtan/delivered before them or never did it happen after that.Which reason would you like to give if all the succeding books also are talking about vedic God.

This that then why did not htier followers follow Vedas.Well if Das has digital Map then why should he bi idiot to use paper map.Rather paper Maps must follow the user of digital map. 


> False gods are those born out of Hinduism, Zorastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Sikhism, Bahai, and all the other existing cults. All these false dogmas were connocted by evil men ignorant in nature who obviously were easily made saints among the gullible and whoever follows them is as guilty as they are in committing a thousand crimes.



Das can say one such man was Dayanand who fabircated vedic 'god' and as he was like that so do Arya Samajis feel all were like that.It is like what he call Dooth Ka Jala Chhachh Bhi Phook Kar Pita Hai.

One who burns from hot milk also drink cold butter milk after cooling it.Das will not say that all faith you said above were coreect but Judaisim,Chrsitinaity,Islam and Khalsa are not like your Arya Samaj.And nor were Sanatan Dhramis at the time of Vedas.Yes Dayanand did misguided ignorent.By his Veda called Satyarth Prakash.If Vedas were already there why did not he added Satyarth Prakash into Vedas. 


> They depict God to be completely out of control and unjust by condemning all souls, opposing them and even those before and in remote regions who never heard of it to eternal hell of fire where there is no return.



Well here your inner soul tells you to submit to God as the soul of Dayanand told him also.To be preicise you are talking of misinterpetaions of Holy Bible and holy Kuran.Dear this soul is only a creation like Das make a his hand some time in a punch and some time like a chap(styles of martial art) So this soul is creation or rather change of form by God by God's own will.And as Das is lord of his own body and das is justified to do what ever Das can do with it.So what so ever God's want to do with God's nature,Elements or soul God does that.And perhaps you can not prevent God.





> Neither are the faithfuls who submitted themselves are happy either, since they do so under the duress of constant fear, being always reminded of their lagging performance in worship and never giving enough (free labor and finance). When there are so much adversities (pain and suffering) in the world what else is preventing so many, if not ignorance, to reason that these dogmas have nothing to do with divine spirituality?


Well it apperas that such facotrs are in you so you them very correctly,Das also had similar thought in when he was Vijendendra Prasad Sahu and not vijaydeep Singh.But as per faith of Das(Sikhism) and as per Faith of Ture Sanatan Dhrami,True Muslim and True Jew or Christian.They do not have to worry their worrys are takne care by God,Allah,Prabrahm,Yehova,Akal.

Das just want to tell you that God of Jews was Yehova pronuced a Yhove and it same Oankar of Veda.Late Christians called the same as EL Yhovei or Elhohi.

Muslim called the same as Al Elah or Allah.Omega(Oankar) and Alfa who was who is who is to come.As there was nothing but God before 'creation' whcih we call evolution and there will be nothing but God after this Creation is destroyed(this is your natural law that anything that can be created can always be destroed Eh!).So God has to worry of creation and not the creatures like you are worried about us.




> The sole reason the truth hurts is because people have been misled all their lives into believing that sins are forgiven and salvation a free gift, when instead, sins are not forgiven and salvation requires strenuous and continous effort of study and moreso, practice (yoga) to free the soul.



so as per you yoga very good.Yoga means union and as much as we try like any lady can try to make a man her husband,till husband does not want they can nver be united.Do as much Yoga or truth till God does not want us to unite we will not be able to unite.

If God wants God will not let us do sin.And if God wants even if we go good lot of good works we are not going to be salvaged.

This soul in body is like lamp covered with various dark Sahdes and one layer onto another it keeps on covering.(Das knows that it is even deeper then that but just for you to able to understand).Salvation to all souls is going to happen one day when all souls will be merging back to one from where they are emrging.

Universe also started from a point and expanding and will go back to same point one Day.(Thats what Gurmat,Vedas and Kateebs(Bible and Kuran tells us)

But even what we see is nothing else but same which makes us.


> Reincarnation is a just law by a just God, that all souls are subjected to punishment and reward fitting of their sins and virtues respectively. No soul is condemned to eternal hell nor granted eternal salvation since finite actions can only reap finite results. Emancipation is indeed a very long period because in happiness time flies while the period of pain and misery is very short, but appears to be longer since in pain, time seems to stand still. All souls are given the oppurtunity of salvation at some time, so when you are previleged with human birth make the best of the oppurtunity since no one desires pain.
> Regards,


Vj

Mahashya Ji,

You are just talking like  a Sadhu or Singh but level of sant or Khalsa is even higher.Soul is creation by God so soul can be destroyed.But God will remain.Eternal salvation is achived when by will of God soul looses the indivduality(Hau mai) or self Ego and then unit mind of soul does not exists but Brain of soul does not continue to exist bu brain of God 'takesover'.Truth is that all things are in all situations of God.Only by will of God many do not know this and do many acts like you are trying to guide us.

But only few by will of god know that it is God who wants to have pleasue of all situations create such creations to his liking as God likes this thing to happen.

The way we can not hear with nose but smeel so to feel God our 5 sense may not help us till God wants.So that feelinh comes by faith(Islam,Sanatan Dhrama,Chrsitinailty,Sikhism or any one on whom God wants have mercy).So even if Das tells you(by sound) or writes to you(by text on moniter) you may not be able to know till God wants you and you have faith and your Sxth sense or Tenth Gate opens.

Gurfateh

Well if Das got chance to visit Canada on a militar excersise.

Das will bring two(pipas) tin boxes of  pure Sarson Ka Teel (Musturd oil) one for singhvj Ji and another for our own Guru Granth Purist who live in Canada.

They need lubricant to smothen the dryness of thier brains.

Any preachers when he starts with saying that your faith is wrong and my is correct is not a good preacher and often casues more hatred.But then his ego keeps on telling to repeat the fault as if he changes his way then it wil mean that he was wrong in past and proving of this means hurting of ego.

Well if singhvj Ji are knowing about Yoga them das can help him because yoga of Yogas Raj Yoga is Gurmat.

As at the time of Vedas ancestors of Das and Singhvj use to ride bulleck cart and at present we use Aircraft so as he is using primitve ways to get the truth.Ways are true but slow.Das got the way on whcih just one step made destination coming for traveller.That is Gurmat.

It is his destiny that if he uses waterways and try to cross ocean while swiming,here thier is danger of shrak called ego eating him en route or his drwaning with to much of load of salnder he is carrying with him.

Else he can use spacecraft Called Gurmat.There is a risk here too but if all precautions are taken then we can reach in fraction of second.

Das is still pondering that from which days followers of Dayanand Ji have started to pilfer the legescy of Anne Besent,Vevekananda or Aurobindo Gosh that these Veda purists have started to talk of Yoga and Vedanta ,which Dayanand Ji in his whole life could not get.

Is it a new sect of Arya Samaj.Well in past also thier were twne was vegitarian proeved that Vedas prohibit killing of animal(by thier interpetaions) and they at present have merged with hinduism(Das warns vegi Sikhs on thier future)This was during the time when Mahatama Hansraj Ji were alive.

And another one became so radical that they did not  recogainse existance of God.Bhagat Singh and similar communists are nothing else but {censored}y of arya Samaj and soviet socialism.

By the way we can also visit Dalitstan.org.

They have proved a very good thing.

As we have seen singhvj ji are reapeting same false thing again and again.This is due to the theory(say false 100 times and it wil be truth) of another Great Arya Samaji of last centuary.Hail Adolf Hitler.

In Fact life of hitler and Dayanand ji and thier exterme views to condem others are just the same.

So there was another branch of Arya Samaj in west.Nazism and fasism..


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## Singhvj (Mar 23, 2005)

vijaydeep Singh said:
			
		

> God entered in Jesus like holy ghost like your neurotranmitter enter in your hand to let it move as your brain want it to move.


You are a brainless twit, even a jackass has better brains than you do.
Isn't God omnipresent - here, there and everywhere? Why does he have to enter when he is already there? As a matter of fact He is All-pervading, meaning that He is in everyone and not only Christ.


			
				vijaydeep Singh said:
			
		

> Next thing.Guru Nanak DEv Ji were chrsitian as well As Muslim as well as Hindu. Problem here is that you are still to know God if you know God then only you could understand.


< mod cut > 


[font=arial,helvetica]Abu Dawud's Hadith is the third most respected Hadith in Islam. Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah (Muhammad) married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old." Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, #2116[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica]< mod cut >[/font]
[font=arial,helvetica] 
Moderator's Note: Member singhvj, please maintain a discussion oriented environment, without belittling anyone. Thanks.[/font]


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## Singhstah (Mar 23, 2005)

< mod cut > dont ever say that about my guroo sahib, ... < mod cut >



			
				Singhvj said:
			
		

> You are a brainless twit, even a jackass has better brains than you do.
> Isn't God omnipresent - here, there and everywhere? Why does he have to enter when he is already there? As a matter of fact He is All-pervading, meaning that He is in everyone and not only Christ.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Neutral Singh (Mar 23, 2005)

*This thread has been rendered useless for any concrete learning... CLOSED !!*

*If there is any POINT still left unresolved in this DISCUSSION then please open a new thread.*


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## vijaydeep Singh (Mar 24, 2005)

*Falsification of Islam by rabid arya Samajis*

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Das is opening this thread to answer the questions raised by singhvj Ji.If adim wants he can put it under false prophets thread.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by vijaydeep Singh
> God entered in Jesus like holy ghost like your neurotranmitter enter in your hand to let it move as your brain want it to move.
> 
> ...



Well Das is happy that you are angery.Yes das Nanas and Mamas are also angery.Anger is a mark of frustration.And it is the start of defeat.

Well read what das said.

well Das may think that you clould not be in your hand. Or perhaps your brain might be not in your head but in your toe Singhvj Ji.

The way you are in your hand but till your neutransmitter does not order your hand from your brain hand does not work.so till God who was in Jesus since birth as God is in all.But as god wanted that form of God to be extra oridnary so in that form some truth was realised(you have not realised it as yet) and it was delivered to mankind by God via one of the form of God called Jesus.

Yes in fact God also does not want all to go on truth.As if this happen then no one will have as much respect of truth as God want.So God in the form of you or Dayanand also spreads untruth and in the form of Arya Samajis also go on that.

If God is in all then from where on earth are you harping on Karama or deeds of soul and from were on earth are you talking of natural laws.If all is God then where is soul and where is birth and where is nature and where are deeds(Das knows the answer but ask you  As you have very great brain)



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by vijaydeep Singh
> Next thing.Guru Nanak DEv Ji were chrsitian as well As Muslim as well as Hindu. Problem here is that you are still to know God if you know God then only you could understand.
> 
> ...



Well you were talking about child molestation as like all prevert Arya Samajis you have frustated vulgarity in your heart.

Das can tell that yes child molestation does occur in Arya Anathalya(Orpanage run by Arya Samaj).Dayanand was incapable to even mastrabute leave aside molesting but yes Arya Samajis do fulfill the unfullfill desire of thier great Guru perhaps in third gender.

Then you talk about Rasool Akram Salla Lahe Salle Wa Wassalam.

Das can use some quotes of rig Vedas in same light puting light on phidelphia in that society but it will be misinterpetation as you have done to holy Haddith.

Remeber that thier are many such haddithas you say this is third.And some are valid other not like you also do not follow Puranas so in the same way many Muslims also do not follow haddith.

By the way it is very crazy on your part that you are quoting someone else as a sayer in Haddeth.Hadeeth is what Prophet Said.And you are talking about Aysh(Razi's) Saying.Any simple non Muslim and Muslim would have been misguieded by you.Sunn is what holy Prphet did.And Haddeeth is what he said.And holy Kuran is waht was delivered to him by Allah by Jebrail.

Coming to intercourese.Aysha was rescuded by Prophet and he might have been given her a legal relation as in Arebia till the time of Pagan idol worshippers who also followed Vedas and that shows the power of Islam on your Vedas that at present not even known.

If Das is not mistaken it is natural law of your type which says Truth always win.So this means that holy Kuran is ture so it won and defeated Vedas not only in Arebia but in Areas where they where writtan(Afghanistan and Pakistan).

Coming Back to Hazrat Aysha(Razi.) Matter.It is said that Prophet loved her.And for you if you love even if your doughter it wil be an intercourese.Perhaps Swami Dayanand ji also loved some elder lady of your family sorry! he was incapable to love.So perhaps swami Hansraj ji could have done this.

(Das gives full authority to adimin or moderators   to edit his post but till singhvj ji are on this forum das knows nasty things will keep on happening as Akal is Nit Narayane Krur Karme).

Gurfateh

Das can also add two things.

As logic used by Singhvj Ji to prove Guru to Rasool Sahib and to prove both of then wrong.


Dayanand did what was in vedas correct!

There are instance of beef eating in Veda or Even there are instance of slavery in vedas.So shall Das say that dayanand was a beef eater and was preaching and practising Slavery.Das can say that as per Vedas foreced labour did come to Islam also.

As Islam is Vedic and many preachers in Delhi are now agreeing that Vedas was one of the many holy books which preceded Kuran(holy Kuran talks of many prophets and holy books but mentions only a few).

Then as singhvj Ji are talking of God in all.Well he is going totally against thier own Guru Dayanand.

And even if some one knows that God is in all like some one knows that bribe is bad yet take it.So just by knowing God in all is not sufficent but we will have to feel it and have faith in that also.That can happen by mercy of God.

By the writing of singhvj Ji das could see that he is in great mental pain.And he think all are in that pain.How painfull could be a life of an Arya Samaji.Even a pig who is to be sent to salughter house may not feel such a pain.


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## Neutral Singh (Mar 24, 2005)

*Re: Falsification of Islam by rabid arya Samajis*

On the behest of vijaydeep Singh Ji, this thread is again open for "Discussions".

Everybody, please behave like a civlized human being. 

Best Regards


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## vijaydeep Singh (Mar 24, 2005)

Gurfateh

thanks brother.

Das would again urge you to call Mr. Rajinder Nijjer as he is the only person who can go to the level of singhvj Ji.

Das can think like members Rajs or Muslim as both have faith and by thinkinh like them Das also feels peace but when das enters the mind of singhvj Ji Das feels the fire of hell there or if logically speaking das thinks like him it is painfull as Gurmat says even if one is devoid of God for a second one is in evil era of Kaliyuga.

And das feel Kaliyuga near him when he tends to feel and think like him.So das urges all of the members that for eternal bliss of Gurmat do not rember what singhvj ji write and take it lightly and not seruosly as his writing are full of contempt and hatered.And by in corporating them he are going to have high level of haterd.

He is giving us what he has.

Well Das only wanted to ask him one big question.

If God is in every one then why is not God in Holy Bible,Holy Puranas,Holy Kuran or three Sikh scriptures?Was God absent from thier writers or was God gone for hunting for the head of swami Shrdhanand Ji when all holy books mentioned above were wriittan.Writer,Book,Ink all had God in them so how can they be false?


Then if all is God from where we have individual souls?From where each soul has its own deeds or Karma?From how can an individual soul then get rebirht?

what is the differqance between soul and body if God is in both?

Das want to know how wise our member singhvj are .


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## Singhvj (Mar 24, 2005)

Singhstah[color=red said:
			
		

> ]<mod cut>[/color] dont ever
> say that about my guroo sahib<mod cut>


Vj ~ This is what we call protecting religion by killing those who oppose it. Did your Guru instruct you to kill those who insulted him? If so, then you, your guru and your religion are for the birds. My religion is indeed true religion because I and my guru are protected from or above those who seek to insult us.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Mar 24, 2005)

Gurfateh



> Vj ~ This is what we call protecting religion by killing those who oppose it. Did your Guru instruct you to kill those who insulted him? If so, then you, your guru and your religion are for the birds. My religion is indeed true religion because I and my guru are protected from or above those who seek to insult us.



By this tendency of faith Dayanad was not a son of {censored} of Kabul and your name is vijai Singh and not imtiaz Khan.


In Pakistan due to this Sikhs still exsit but you are elimnated.

ThAT faith is true which is shown on road or in practicle your bravery or courageousness is only to talk neither your faith nor can you stay in practicla life.

Non of the evil doer of Arya Samajis great leader could be punished and nor they leanrt any lesson.

Our Guru does not need protection from us.Our Guru protect us.As you said that God is in all,That God is Guru.And that is in all Panths.Islam,Chrsitinaity or Khalsa.

If you want to see the actual power of this Guru go in front of a mosque and shouot your inner feeling towards Rasool or Go in front Guru Dwara and loudly say what you say on internet.

Das willl recomend you to book seat in hospital with internet connection to tell Das about your expirence.

Das can say that if this tendency was not in us then Das would not have been doing his profession and would have enjoed some call center Job in kushy office of Gurugaon.

Be it our God Akal,Or be it any any human in which Akal lives.A person who tolrates useless slander is equly respossilbe for that sin as as a salnderer.

You love Nathuram godse Das also love him.he was like the same.Your Bhagat Singh for his Guru was his communism why did he killed Sandards?

Gurfateh

We do not kill anyone but our Guru in us.

and who so ever has to end his time of life is sent to us to be eliminated by our Guru as Our Guru is in our Enemy also.

Some one please tell him Sakhi of bhai Kananya
or visit

sevapanthi.org


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## The lion king (Mar 27, 2005)

> There is only one true God and He is the God of the Vedas which is the source of the highest of ethics and morals and above all the source of all sciences.



To claim that god can only be obtained from the vedas is wrong.

God cannot come to his own limits - you are contradicting yourself


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## vijaydeep Singh (Mar 30, 2005)

Wahiguru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Wll das can say that singhvj Sahib are not Bad hearted but he knows something but has not realised that truth.

Knowing truth and realsieing it are differnt things.

say we calle osetrich as Shutar Murg.(some know that)

Some understand that also.

Some even see Shutar Murg and even may not have known the name or would have understood abouot it.some see only its picture or Photograph while some feel it also.

So what he was preaching that God is in all is ture but he needs to realise it.If he wants Das can help him.

he can visit site
http://www.kundaliniyoga.org/

Das can tell him even something other then what is there.

Das has no hate towards him or his Guru as God Akal is in all.

Das used Bad words just to let him realise that it hurts as it hurt brother Singhstah.

Das tenders an apology to him on behlf of young man Singhstah also but Singhvj must remeber this thing that survival of fittest and our childerns are fit on truth.

singhstah is like those two young men who were told to side with lie in Sirhind but they prefered truth and thence were put into wall.

Had they said that if captors levae them and they will become Muslim and will not attacke captors they would have been let off but those childern said that they will make an army and atttack the captors.This is why captors killed them.

Das can say Vedas are root,Holy Bible is Trunk,Holy Kuran is Braches and Three scriptures of Sikhs are fruits and Flowers.

Tree is grown to get fruits and Flowers.

Why should some one uproot the root separate it from tree.Root will dies without tree.And perhaps root can regenrate same thing from which it was separated.

And seeds from Fruits or Flowers also can make many roots and tree.

So Das can say that Fruit is Gurmat givne to us by God and we must use it.Akal Bless.

May Akal bless Singhvj Ji also.


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## rosethorne (Oct 12, 2005)

WJKK
WJKF
      Dear friends, It is not only one but singhvj like persons are in the world today and in before. Gursikhs oftenly place Singh after first name, And this Singhvj claims as sensible but seems to be most senseless person on this site. Because we are known Singhs and we no need to place it before our 1st name. Because we don't need to highlight our status, we are very well known in history and in present. I just want to know by the frozen brain of singhvj that why so many aryasamaji's wear turban and your swami worn it. Don't there brain burnt inside and given you a senseless birth. And please give some heat to your brain singhvjji that where was your aryasamaj in the battle of independence where 80% of shaheeds are sikhs, but they were little populated in india as 2% in total. Your brain is frozen MAN. You are in Canada so please go to see a good doctor there where you should get your turbanfobia removed from that frozen area. And please tell your doctor to give some nourishment to your brain that it can remmember some turbans of your aryasamaj or otherwise let their turbans into sikh's chapals. Thanks Darling. Go to your hole where you come from.


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## 2ruakalbir (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: Ignorance is a Bliss*

singhvj wrote: 





> It seems we already have an issue, many are offended because of my joy and fun in exposing what is false.


 
You haven't exposed anything!? You are one of those quacks that follows any swami around and asks for charity. Your swami didn't defend people's rights to freedom of worship, brotherhood, or equality for all. He might as well advertize on zee tv. 

Maybe someone so feeble minded could fall for the FALSE self proclaimed guru dayanand. Who might I add must be a coward, hateful little prick like yourself, who is trying to get a running start on a new religion. I'd become a muslim before believing in something so assinine as daynand, aka hindu swami.


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## 2ruakalbir (Oct 12, 2005)

> There is only one true God and He is the God of the Vedas which is the source of the highest of ethics and morals and above all the source of all sciences.


 
Yep...so he created the caste system, dowry, sati, and idol worship, blind fruitless rituals...the list goes on...


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## 2ruakalbir (Oct 12, 2005)

> Vj ~ This is what we call protecting religion by killing those who oppose it. Did your Guru instruct you to kill those who insulted him? If so, then you, your guru and your religion are for the birds. My religion is indeed true religion because I and my guru are protected from or above those who seek to insult us.


 
instead...you guys insult others...weak. Like abbot and costello. Gurus of the Sikh faith defended for the common good of people. Your self proclaimed guru wants to stand on the shoulders of the people before him, and claim himself as a guru. 

Can someone provide a psychiatrist for singhvj to see? I think he's flown over to the cukoo's nest now. Hey...does dayanand have an 800 number?


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## devinesanative (Oct 20, 2005)

Who are you Singhvj ?

Who You Are Singhvj ?


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## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 20, 2005)

Gurfateh

He is the owner of website vjsingh.com.

Das finds him intelligent.


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## devinesanative (Oct 20, 2005)

Dear Das ji

Are you Supporting him or trying to frighten me.:}{}{}:


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## Admin (Oct 21, 2005)

vijaydeep Singh said:
			
		

> Gurfateh
> 
> He is the owner of website vjsingh.com.
> 
> Das finds him intelligent.


 
Vijaydeep Singh Ji, intelligent in which sense?


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## devinesanative (Oct 21, 2005)

Dear Vijaydeep Ji

If you know him them ask him come back , I would like to know who this Einstein or Newton is ...........


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## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 21, 2005)

Gurfateh


Respected Aman Singh Ji,
vjsingh has same frame of mind as respected devinesanative.

both are of equal 'intellectual might'.

for devinesanative,
yoo can go and seek his email from his site and call him.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 21, 2005)

Gurfateh

reason for Das saying this is that respected devinesanative are more then a match for vjsingh Ji who infact pained das for a long time.

das is a bit emotional but devinesanative are rational so he/she can defeat vjsingh in debate which das can not think of.


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## devinesanative (Oct 21, 2005)

Its the basic Instinct of the human being to jump into conclusions ..........


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## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 21, 2005)

Gurfateh

Das thinks that devinesanative's intellect is more then sufficeint to vjsingh ji kiss the ground.

He/she are the good match for vjsingh ji.


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## manbir (Nov 4, 2005)

"*One of the greatest evil of sikhism is wearing of a turban, it fries (heated) up the brains and leaves the wearer brainless to reason*."

But I still cannot understand why was Swami Dayanand wearing a Turban !!! 

I am not sure, But someone told me that he started wearing a Turban after reading about Sikhism. Babbarsher ji, do you have any information regarding this ?


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## Satyaban (Nov 4, 2005)

Namaste all,
I am not a Sikh and do not pretend to have more than a shallow knowledge of Sikhism. However I can speak from my spiritual perspective.

I do not see my need for a mediator nor do I think there can be one between me and Lord Shiva, I use the word Shiva but any name means the same.
My essence is Shiva and by removing layers and attachments to the temporal world I will realize consciouness as Shiva.
I can be guided rishis on my path and by guru but no one can be an intermediary. The guru I am given is not given to all and a guru given to someone else may not be given to me.
I can not presume what another may need on his or her spiritual path to be critical of their guidance. What I feel free to criticize are statements one may say who is critical of my path. Indeed all are on a spiritual path.
This I believe.


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## devinesanative (Nov 5, 2005)

What is Shiva ? 

A Wild State of Sexual Orgasm or What ? 

If not then why worship Shiva Lingam ({censored} ) ejaculated inside the Vagina or Parbati ?

It is said that when any worshipper pours water on the shiva lingam , then it calms down the sexual craziness of Shiva and Parbati both , then both bless the Worshipper . 

Couldn't find any Head or Tail out of this ?


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## Satyaban (Nov 6, 2005)

devinesanative,
I am unaware of what you are talking about a wild sexual state. Do you have some sexual hang up that you try to overcompensate for. The lingum is a symbol for Shivas creating.

I don't see how your post pertains to the topic. Do you have no respect for other faiths or is it a habit for you to speak when you are lacking knowledge?

Om shanti shanti Om

Satyaban


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## manbir (Nov 6, 2005)

It seems that Satyaban has used 'Shiva' for the Almighty God. 
The Creater of this universe has No name. And All names are HIS. We may call HIM by any name.

But, Originally Shiva ( Satyaban's Avatar ) is the Shiv Lingum which is worshiped in the form of 'Lingum in a sate of perpetual union with the vagina of Parvati'.


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## devinesanative (Nov 6, 2005)

What is Knowledge ?

How Does it Look Like ?

Where Does knowledge Lives ?

When knowledge will arrive ?

What knowledge will do ?

Where knowledge goes ?

Who is father and mothe of Knowlege ?

Have You seen knowledge ?

How does knowledge tastes ?

What is the color of knowledge ?


.......... ???????????????? .............


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## Satyaban (Nov 6, 2005)

The lingum is a symbol of "That One's" constant creating. I agree with Manbir that the name used is a matter of choice and indicates one's philosophical school.


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## devinesanative (Nov 7, 2005)

Why there is Dualism , Double Standard or Doglapan in everywhere ?

If a common man roams about naked in the public he/she is called "Besharam" , Shameless and what not ...

But if a comman man is successfull and Great , if he/she roams naked in the public he/she is not called but respected .

perception of general public about the same object changes as a common man elevates himself/herself towards success or greatness ...

The same dirty thing becomes a thing for praise ...

The same dirty thing has not value ,

But people start making interpretation out the same dirty thing , to find out the message .....


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## manbir (Nov 7, 2005)

devinesanative said:
			
		

> Why there is Dualism , Double Standard or Doglapan in everywhere ?
> 
> If a common man roams about naked in the public he/she is called "Besharam" , Shameless and what not ...
> 
> ...


 

Yes, Man is expert in dualism. Rather Master in the Art of Dualism. Animals are lucky to be free from this 'virtue'.

If we want we are capable of finding Sprituality, Art, high philosophy and what not in Dirt and Filth !!!

Haven't we seen umpteen number of  dipiction of sexual acts in Hindu temples all in the name of Spirituality.


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## manbir (Nov 7, 2005)

Just imagin the level of spiritual degradation ..... Man worshipping God in the form of a  "Large erected {censored} inserted in the Vagina of a female" .... This Object is a source of veneration and worship by millions of human beings !!! Uncountable number of such objects all over this country where young females are supposed to pour milk and water to cool the sexual ecstasy of God and in return you are supposed to get blessings from God.  What God .... !!


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## manbir (Nov 7, 2005)

Now coming to Sikhs.....

Just imagin the basic human nature prevals everywhere .... 

Some of us do not seem to find offense at the Triya Chritra !!!!  

And we would find excuse to justify it  !!!!

After all Humans and Humans. 

I sometime feel no number of  Prophets can change Human Beings. The history of the last 2000 yrs is a clear evidence. Man has committed and continues to do so, the most evil acts in the name of religion !!!  Religion that is supposed to elevate us to a higher spiritual level makes us do extreme unreligious acts.


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## Satyaban (Nov 7, 2005)

Manbir,
Did you think it was so nice you had to post it thrice:down: 
Obviously you have sexual hang ups and see things too literally. Your lack of knowledge and understanding is easily correctable.


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## manbir (Nov 7, 2005)

The multiple postings were not intentional.
Sorry that was due to some problem with the internet connection.


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## devinesanative (Nov 7, 2005)

A knowledgable person , neither defends nor gets angry ........ 

Why are you defending and getting angry ?

Why are getting embarassed ?

Your way of expressing does reflect that you still have doubts about your faith .

Its like the same thing , When a thieve is queried (who had actually done crime of theft ) about the theft he instantly says ,. I have don nothing , I have done nothing ...


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## devinesanative (Nov 7, 2005)

Satyaban said:
			
		

> Manbir,
> Did you think it was so nice you had to post it thrice:down:
> _*Obviously you have sexual hang ups and see things too literally. Your lack of knowledge and understanding is easily correctable.*[/_quote]
> 
> The above line is Cliche and is used by each and every person to defend himself or herself  as a phychological pill to shut the mouth of others and nothing else.


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## Satyaban (Nov 7, 2005)

devinesanative said:
			
		

> Satyaban said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 8, 2005)

Gurfateh

As per Triya Charitar 266 a princes questions that how can a stone trapped in a Vagina ie Shiv Linga can be God.

It is correct and Das agree that Shiv Linga can not be a a God.

As per Shaivs who tend to reach near Divine knowledge there are a few things.

In Tandav Sotutram writtanby Rvana ,Shiva is termed as Nirankar or formless so in Triya Chairtar 405 it is said that Great God or Mahadev is term used for eternal Shiva(in form) while not understanding Formless's secterts.

In old books true Shiva was not the one born out of Brahma but was light without limits and ends of it Vishnu in the form of Pig and Brahma in form of swan could not get as they were fighting after thier creation that they are the God.(Three of them are folllowers of Akal ie Tin Chele Parwan).


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## Satyaban (Nov 8, 2005)

vijaydeep Singh,
I don't understand what you are trying to say.
My belief is not that Shiva Lingum is God nor do I think you will find any other Kashmiri Shaivites who do. What I do believe is that God is everything, to include you and I, everything seen and unseen to include the spaces inbetween. All is God and there is nothing without God. Hence if God is in you, me, and all else why not in a stone?

I really have not had any friends who are Sikhs but have met some to include my personal physician and had not met such intolerance and lack of respect.

I believe every faith is equally valid and would not be critical of yours.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 9, 2005)

Gurfateh
Respected Satya Ban Ji,

Har Har Mahadev and Jai Shri Ram.

As per our Faith Salvation is in the Hand of Akal.

Anyone be it even non Beliver can get salvation as Akal wants.

Das himself worshipped Shiv ling not long before while he was hindu.

Akal wanted to salvage Das so he become Sikh.

Das was not writing it to you but to other two members who are after you.

We have a sort of ailment in us that many of us think that anything before Guru Granth Sahib was wrong and all after them will be wrong as they known the way of Prtestants or Arya Samajis who does the same with Holy Vedas or Holy Bibles.

This is good to the person like Das who Follow Sanatan Sikhism as thier offesive words ward of neo convertts to Faith and no one even thier coming generation does not follow them.

ihn Vedas also term Rudra is used but for formless.

Das just wants to say that Actual Shiva is Akal or Allah who is also Called Yehova and is God of Sikhs.

at the stage of Salvatioin while being alive that is seen in all absorbed anf nothing but that so no form as all form are of that. 

Old Sanatan Dharam Scriptutres likie Veda,Upnishads and Holy Puranas justify that.

das is at yuor side 

With the coming of Adi Guru Granth Sahib we are able to get the correct meaning of old scriptures also correctly as they(Adi Guru Darbar) are vaste and say nothing is impossible and all is relative but Akal/Allah/Shiva/Yehova/Ram.

So puting that it is contradictory to others shows our lack of knoweldge towards them.

And as Triya Charitar were mentioed here so did Das wrote about them(which you off course do not know).

At last Das only wanted to prove that as per Sanatna Dharam Scriptures 
True God is Omni obsorbed.Brahman ,Vishnu and Mahesh are creations.

varous Brahmas,Vishnus or Shmbhu/Shankers wrere various humans with some titltes,Guru got that in Dasham Granth 300 years before present days Sanskrit Shoolars and more then being spritualism they were more humanly.

the Shiva which gave form to Vishnu who made Brahman from Lotus from Nabh of his stomach and Brahma who made Rudra/Shiv Sanker/Sambhu etc.

so Shiv which we worship is light and eternal and not the won which lives a man on Kailash takes form or destrroys the world but rather itself can be destroyed.

Das recomendes you to have faith in your Shiva and if Real Shiva wants you will Shiva's willing know the truth some day.

Best of luck


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## manbir (Nov 9, 2005)

Respected Styaban

I agree with you when you say --

"God is everything, to include you and I, everything seen and unseen to include the spaces inbetween. All is God and there is nothing without God. Hence if God is in you, me, and all else why not in a stone?"


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## manbir (Nov 10, 2005)

We tend to get bogged down in names that we give to the 'All pervading power of this universe'. That is why there are so many faiths. Because the TRUTH is ONE and  only ONE - the religion of this universe has to be only ONE. In the language of humans there may be many 'Truths'. But the language of this univere is different where Truth is only ONE - HIS NAME, you may call it whatever and whichever way you like. One is in right path if one realises this basic fact of this universe. If we do, we find HIM in everything we see. We find HIS beauty in every thing we feel.


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## Satyaban (Nov 10, 2005)

Manbir ji,
I am so happy to see the last three posts on this thread. Perhaps because I am not familiar with much of the language on this thread I have misunderstood much. To me the name a person uses when speaking of "That One" simply identifies the way they worship not who or what they worship.


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## japjisahib04 (Nov 12, 2005)

Satyaban said:
			
		

> vijaydeep Singh,
> 
> My belief is not that Shiva Lingum is God nor do I think you will find any other Kashmiri Shaivites who do. What I do believe is that God is everything, to include you and I, everything seen and unseen to include the spaces inbetween. All is God and there is nothing without God. Hence if God is in you, me, and all else why not in a stone?
> 
> I believe every faith is equally valid and would not be critical of yours.


Dear Satyaben ji
Gurbani not only tells us God is all over and in everyone but tells that includes stone. It even tells us, sail pathar mai jant upai ta ka rizak aaghai kar dharia - He even made provision for the living beings in rocks and stone. Guru Granth ang.10.9. 
But when it comes for worshiping Gurbani questions, “The ignorant fools pick up stones and worship them. But when those stones themselves sink, how can they make other swim across.” - Guru Granth ang.556.10. One can argue when Creator is in the creation and creation within Creator what is the harm of worshipping Him through creation or via deities. Please note while the former can create Creation, the latter cannot create the Creator. So who is the prime mover, surely the Creator. Every atom of the stone is Him and conscious. But the stone is not conscious, because it has no brain.

Gurbani maintains, “If this stone Akal Purakh were true, it would devour the sculptor for this!” - Guru Granth ang.479.7. He further continued “The stone does not speak; it does not give anything to anyone. It cannot do anything by itself. It does not have any educational direction. Such religious rituals are useless; such service is fruitless.” - Guru Granth ang.1160.8. Bhagat Naam Deyv presents it from different angle and describes, “One stone is devotedly decorated and worshipped, while another stone is walked upon. If first one is a Akal Purakh, then the other must also be a Akal Purakh. He thus says I revere the Sabd of Akal Purakh only.” - Guru Granth ang.525.1*. *Moreover if an artist is able to sketch His image on stone, then it means He has come into his understanding and or imagination whereas He is beyond mind, baani and intellect (Aagham Aghochar) or even imagination, hence painting is incomplete.

Even Bhagvat Gita quotes in chapter 12 that, “the realization is more difficult for those whose mind is not fixed on the unmanifest Brahman, because, the comprehension of the unmanifest by the embodied (or average) human being is very difficult. But those who worship Me as manifest, renouncing all actions to Me; setting Me as their supreme goal, and meditating on Me with single minded devotion; I swiftly become their savior, from the world that is the ocean of death and transmigration, whose thoughts are set on Me, O Arjuna shall attain me.” So what is this manifestation? Is it in the form of His creation or revelation? Is it idol of deities (since Akal Purakh is formless so naturally idols are of deities) or His revelation? It is His Sabd Naam, which is revealed in Vedas. So we read and contemplate on and follow what is mentioned in Vedas and not worship it. But what are we worshipping under the excuse of manifestation? Stone engraved with some carving. It is under this background that third Guru Nanak regrettably states the revelation and said, “veda mai naam uttam so sunai nahI phirai jau baitalia - that you don’t contemplate on the great name of Waheguru revealed in Vedas but deluded by doubt are wandering in absurd and worshiping lifeless, speechless idols, havens, pilgrimages and are following other rituals thus you have deserted the TRUTH and are clung to falsehood and therefore are losing your life in gamble.” - Guru Granth ang.919-14.
Therefore focusing on a speechless 'idol’ or image of one of deity can become a serious limiting factor towards ultimate realization of Waheguru. So why not start off on the right foot from the very beginning? In my opinion, we are not that weak that we depend on lifeless stone and worship His creations especially when mankind is the head of all His creations, therefore the need is to go beyond it and realize Akal Purakh.

Kabir Ji declares that if one can meet Akal Purakh with the worshipping of stone, he would love to worship a mountain. In the language of Guru nanak the best proclamation is: Ughar gyaa jasiey khotta dhabuaa nadr sarafaa ayiaaa which in English can be translated perhaps as: The fake gem became exposed as soon as the eyes of the expert jeweller fell upon it. “ Guru Granth ang.381.7. in Japji Sahib we are warned repeatedly about becoming unthinking and complacent, about conveniently embracing ritualism and proceeding through life in a formulaic fashion.
Guru Nanak thus enquires, “Why worship the gods and goddess? What can we ask of them? What can they give us? Can we churn the stone. The stone gods are washes with water, but they just sink in the water.” - Guru Granth ang.637.5. Further is it not a hypocrisy that at one end stone idol is fed with milk and sweetmeats, washes it with MILK, gives it the best foods to eat... WHILE IGNORES or MISTREATS...the SHUDRAS as LOW CASTES.

Therefore whatever we portray or curve anything on stone or anywhere it will not be of Akal Purakh but His creations and trying to do it shows our limited nature. This process of portraying ‘The Sach’, takes us away from it. Hymns of Bhagat Kabir regretfully state “God has painted the greatest picture of the world with various colors but these wondrous creations (Forms) or its discoveries have now become the cause of concern, as mankind is emotionally attached with them and have diverted to worship picture of His creations or its discoveries.

Bhaghat Kabir reiterates on such meaningless rituals and says “those who call a stone their Akal Purakh, their service are useless. Those who fall at the feet of a stone Akal Purakh - their work are wasted in vain.” - Guru Granth ang.1160.6.

The Brahmans were intelligent people and introduced a simple black stone with the guidelines that it was to be used as a medium of approach to Akal Purakh and nothing more. This was the concept of a 'medium' as suited for the limited intellect of the masses. Since as per their belief one couldn't approach Akal Purakh directly[because He was incognizable], a medium, a path was required. The path was through a messiah, or through an idol. The masses were satisfied with either. Such was the state of dark fog that engulfed the innocent mankind. No one was the culprit, and no one is in this Universe. The human archetype is in Hukam. The umbilical cord between man and Akal Purakh was the sole requirement. Yes! it became an umbilical cord. The idol became an umbilical cord. Man could speak his grievances to an idol. Man could cry before an idol. Man could ask gifts from an idol. The relation between man and idol became a personal relation--the society was moving towards individualism. Man was no longer connected to his fellow human beings. Hindus would stop loving their fellow Hindus, forgetting that the untouchables too were men.
Regards Sahni Mohinder


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## devinesanative (Nov 12, 2005)

If Ramayan be believed , then there is one episode of Eklavya , where he makes the idol of his guru Dronacharya , and gets insipiration form him , Practices his archery , and becomes the best archerers.

An idol or picture can be used to get insipiration , just like many people hang the pictures of great scientists on the walls of their offices, such type of visual arts does boost the brain.


But , it only gets bad when people start expecting miracles to happen by worshipping them rather than getting inspiration and taking *ACTIONS*


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## japjisahib04 (Nov 13, 2005)

But this in no way takes you to realization of ultimate authority. Therefore focusing on a speechless 'idol’ or image of one of deity can become a serious limiting factor towards ultimate realization of Waheguru. So why not start off on the right foot from the very beginning.
I hope I am clear.
Regards Sahni Mohinder


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## devinesanative (Nov 13, 2005)

Worshipping Idols or Stones won't lead any one to somewhere .

But how this might have evolved can best be inferred and understood , by watching a movie "CastAway" .

Its  a nice English Movie , where a man working in Fedex company , finds in himself in an unkown island after his plane crashes in the mid of the sea.

The other day he finds his dead friend , then he makes a picture of his friend on the baskeball , just to ensure that he is not alone ..

That sort of thing might have happened in the past .

When people used to live alone and loney in the jungles , just to feel the presence of someone , they might have devised the IDOLs or Stone images ....

Idol or stone worship has nothing to do with realization but it is more or less psychological .


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## japjisahib04 (Nov 13, 2005)

devinesanative said:
			
		

> Worshipping Idols or Stones won't lead any one to somewhere .
> 
> 
> That sort of thing might have happened in the past .
> ...


 
Here we are. You are right and I believe this must have lead them to devise the idols or stone carving and brahmins must have taken advantge of this.,
Regards Sahni Mohinder


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 13, 2005)

Gurfateh

One information.
Story of Eklavya is not from Ramayan but from Mahabharat.


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## Satyaban (Nov 13, 2005)

Wow so much to read


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## Satyaban (Nov 13, 2005)

Personally


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## Satyaban (Nov 13, 2005)

Personally I worship no stone but the Lingum is an important part of ritual. I do not believe ritual will bring the atmanto reunion whit "That One". I rarely even go to the mandir but those who do find it as a way to express their love and devotion. Ritual can also be used as a step in the  honing of the one pointedness of mind.

Do you not make a symbolic apology to God for any ways you may have offended before your meditations? Do we not make sure we are physicly clean before we meditate even though being physicly clean is a part of this temporal word?

I get haircuts several times a year and shave my face almost everyday but I do not think this is a reflection of my spirituality.


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## japjisahib04 (Nov 14, 2005)

I hope it was not boring.
Regards Sahni Mohinder


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## devinesanative (Nov 14, 2005)

if a person is clean from inside , then he/she will become clean from outside automatically .

Because the innerself of cleaniness will force him / her to remain phycially clean.

Being physically clean before meditating is not a ritual , But it makes one look fresh and cool , and is also hygenic . 



Before going for swimming , he/she has to take bath and clean is body . that does not means that it is a ritual for swimming .

But to make his/her body clean , as you alone will not swim but many people are going to swim .

Some activities become rituals when they do not come from within but are forced by others.

But what comes from within is not a ritual .


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## devinesanative (Nov 14, 2005)

vijaydeep Singh said:
			
		

> Gurfateh
> 
> One information.
> Story of Eklavya is not from Ramayan but from Mahabharat.


 
Dear vijaydeep ji ,

Passive disscussions are very boring , And I do know that Eklavya was from mahabharat . But I Intentially wrote so.

Just make it Active ....

Some times some things are intentially written just to switch on the brain and churn out and extract the gems and pearls from others.


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## japjisahib04 (Nov 14, 2005)

Guru Nanak has classified three levels of uncleanliness in japji sahib pauri 21, ie level 1  is dust, level 2 is bodily excretions and level 3 is sinful thoughts. Guru Nanak has also classified three levels of cleansing agents, i.e level 1 is water, level 2 is soap [detergents] and level 3 is naam. it is now incumbent upon the sikh to realise which impurity he is loaded with [ie at what level of cleanliness/uncleanliness he/she is]  and to use the appropriate method to cleanse himself/herself so as to be able to carry out his/her responsibilities and duties, both temporal and spiritual.
Regards Sahni Mohinder


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 16, 2005)

Gurfateh

Respected Satyaban Ji,

As we see that minsters with the speacuil departments are ment to serve general public and minster is only a servent so is bureaucrat.

any bribe to it is not good.

in the same way as per our faith gods and godess are made by Akal (eternal) Mahakal(greater then time) to serve the unvers and not to worship them or to bribe them but to worship Akal only but do respect all.

In fact Sankar who lieve on Kailash is often refered to first Nihung,a sort of worshipeer of of our God Akal.In Nath yoga  same is called Adi Nath or first of Nath called Bholenath ,who worships nirankar(formless).We could see that eternally sitting in meditation mean some some higher on which Sanker is medtating.

For us he is male and not the one whose male gental was droped due to curse of sage due to his tendency to comit adultary to thier wives.(it is as per one puranic story).

Nihungs are Shiv Swaroops or like the form of Shiva and Shiva is thier source of inspiration as like Shiva they take poision to let world surive ie sacrifise self for others.

so as per our faiths Lingum is an attempt of prevert of defmae a great Human called Shiva Sanker ,who ruled Himlayas and brought ganges to plains.

Das request you to visit www.sarbloh.info and related sites to find that farla on the turban of Nihung gives something similar to naaga or cobra on the head of Shiva so is half moon on the turban called chand torra and blue dress etc. 

Das is not trying to offend anyone's faith but trying to prove that in Nihung Singhs(a type of Sikhs) among most of the Sanatan Sikhs Shiva of kailash is respected but Lingum worship is oppsed as it is derogatory to Shiva.

Das is sorry if wrong is writtan.


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## devinesanative (Nov 16, 2005)

The concept of worshipping naga or cobra is the universal concept. If history be unearthed from the world over it can be found that there are still socieities and communities who worship naga or cobra . And that was prevalent in the thousands of thousands of years back.


For example :

The swastik symbol is also auspicious in India , But it was also the symbol used by Hitler.


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## devinesanative (Nov 16, 2005)

The concept of Naga or Cobra is a metphor for the power which lies in each and every human being.


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## gu7s (Nov 17, 2005)

believe in god not in some kind of stup. prophet that said that he is the last prophet!!!!!


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## vijaydeep Singh (Jan 19, 2006)

Gurfateh
Our keeping 5ks and uncut hairs are symbols that our own form even does not exists but is of Guru.

Das is giving a link below which talks of Nihungs caarying old tradidtion of Shiva as Shiva was one of the initial Sikh of our Gurubar Akal.


http://www.shastarvidiya.org/

http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/sikh_akali.html

An Akali Nihang Singh
Unknown Akali photographed in 1860 by Hooper and Weston
is a powerful example of the Victorian photographers art form. This
warrior is prodigiously armed. He is holding a 'ferenghi' sword in his right
hand.The dagger in his waistband is a Chillanum, . He also has a shield, a second
sword and a pistol about his person. His turban is adorned with 'chakars' (quoits), and
an 'Aad chand' (half moon cresent signifying that he represents Shiv-Swaroop (ie, the very form of Shiva)
​


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## Satyaban (Feb 12, 2006)

Namaste,

It does not matter whether I call God Shiva, Har, Allah, Yahwah, Bill, Jaydeep or Krishna there is only the creator "That One". The word we choose to use identifies the path one is on and I believe all paths can lead to moksha.

Peace
Satyaban


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## japjisahib04 (Feb 17, 2006)

Yes you are very right. Even gurbani tells us Ram japo ji eisai eisai dhru prahlad japiyo ji jaise or sada simar narayan. but the question is though we may address Him with any name when we mediatate on Him how to simar and what to simar. This is word Waheguru or Ik-ongkar. 
Regards Sahni Mohinder


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## singhkhalsa (Mar 2, 2006)

Even if you do repetition of word say "Morakh" Moorakh...........It is simran of this word but we are supposed to do simran of "Waheguru" word. when we wonder at god's infinite gift and his wondrous expression, we say waheguru.

WAHEGURU WAHEGURU WAHEGURU 

Agam


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## Satyaban (Mar 2, 2006)

My friends,
Could someone please tell me what "simran" means.

Peace
Satyaban


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## manbir (Mar 2, 2006)

Simran is a state of constant rememberance.


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## Satyaban (Mar 2, 2006)

Cool. It is what we should all have foremost in our thoughts.

Om shanti shanti
Satyaban


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## 21khalsa13 (Mar 3, 2006)

_Namaste,_

_It does not matter whether I call God Shiva, Har, Allah, Yahwah, Bill, Jaydeep or Krishna there is only the creator "That One". The word we choose to use identifies the path one is on and I believe all paths can lead to moksha._

_Peace_
_Satyaban_
____________________
_Om shanti shanti Om_

_Satyaban_ _Yes you are very right. Even gurbani tells us Ram japo ji eisai eisai dhru prahlad japiyo ji jaise or sada simar narayan. but the question is though we may address Him with any name when we mediatate on Him how to simar and what to simar. This is word Waheguru or Ik-ongkar. _
_Regards Sahni Mohinder 

nice, how relevant do you guys think of this??? rss. 

*The fabric of life*

*Mechanics of language: how language creates our reality and how sound affects physiology.*
Language is a force of energy and information. 
The spirit is a most creative force (awareness) it is the choice maker and thought generator. A Fountain of ideas, generating an infinite number of space time events, repeated space time events create mental patterns. 
These thought patterns create what we know as the mind. There exist verbal cues to these patterns which constantly condition and restrict our choices. These verbal cues become our beliefs, attitudes and behavioural responses. Our perception and understand is hence built by language. 
Language constitutes pre – verbal language (see eurhythmy gurbani and primal sounds).
Pre verbal language is consists of sound, energy, information and vibration as a infinte potentiality.

Genesis – let there be light.
Lagos was actual word used. Lagos = sound/word. 

Light is in form of photons and waves. A light wave is a vibration. It is this vibration that dissipates energy, information and a primordial sound. 

These primodial sounds carry information and energy. And this in information and energy can in turn bring about changes in our physiology- language anthropology.
All language has same roots- out of potentiality => out of pure potentiality, eternity transformed time (space time events), coming into being. 

Genesis è first there was the word which came into flesh.
In the Vedas concept of virthi è a quantum flucation. A quantum flucation in the source of the unified field (zero point field). 
Hence it is seen that matter information and energy are born of language. 

Time is technically being quantified eternity. Primal man conceived of time as they saw it in there environment. 
A primal biological metre è the menstrual cycle.
Met ra greek for uterus
Matter
Mat er
mat ri mother.
The first measurement of existence becomes material from the dimensionless.
In eurhythmy is is noted MM has primal searching quality. Ie. when a child is born there is a searching. MM is the sound expressing this search. As it finds it’s unconditional love, mm becomes mother, ma, mum, mat ri, ie all language expression of the mother begins with this MMMMM.

All names given to man’s concepts and perceptions have roots in same origin of pure potentiality. This source of infinite energy and information.
AAH è RAè Allahè bramha è yahvehè akash è kash 
DEVIè devtaè divine 
YENè dehna è chen è shine.

Hence sounds/language is the maker of reality. Pre verbal language exists in all of nature

èSOUND
èINFORMATION
èMEMORY
èVIBRATION
èENERGY

Only in latter stages of evolution did sound / language become more sophisticated and hence verbal ècivilisation è technology èetc..
Linguistically structured thought is an basic unit as this is how nature ‘thinks’ through vibrations and sounds. Ie whales communicate with each other through 100s of miles and computer analysis has shown that this communication involves an exchange of 10MB per *** in half an hour. This is equivalent approx all information in the oddessy. WOW!!

Pytharos è stone is frozen music
Zen è void is matter and matter is void. The void creates through sounds and vibration, via quantum flucations in the zero point field.
Verbal language and hence words express thoughts, emotions, intention, expression, awareness. It is the fundamental stuff of life. The very fabric of reality.
An impulse express information & energy at a particular space and time.

Pure abstract potentiality è a real thing.

Story of roman centurion è speak the word and my soul will be healed.

At a quantum level, flows of awareness expressed through neuropeptides which then translates into our biochemistry (field of biochemical information). As information flows words become triggers of mental patterns but also of transformation.

Words create our everyday reality è cybernetics and NLP
They become an expression of experience, health and fulfilment of desires 
Which then can translate into beliefs, assumptions, expectations and self image, these are all product of internal dialogue.
Words have an incalcuble power at a celluar, personal, societal and global level. Can be cause of death, destruction and war, but also harmony, love, laughter and happiness. Repeated patterns become like programs that run in our sub conciousness. Information is passed from cell to cell. Where a thought goes a molecule goes with it. Hence our thoughts are affecting our very biochemistry.

From field of infinte potentaily have potential to use words and thoughts to create a new reality. Be aware of internal dialogue, thoughts and hence what reality is being created. 
And what reality can be created in this consciousness, the playground of the universe.




*Ek onkar satnaam*
In sikhi guru nanak asks to focuses mind at the source of all this potentilaty. 
Ek onkar satnaam the sound of on (root of aum, amen, hum etc) is true primal vibration.
He says the sound/vibration/ or nad (nad root sound of nada meaning note, also name è naam) should be mediated and contemplated on constantly. Day and night. 
All beliefs, assumptions, expectations and hence experience should stem from this place of pure potentilality ensuring all thoughts and actions constanly fresh, growing and adjusting to whats is being learnt, else mind can get into traps of repeated thought patterns hence reducing choice in life from these infinite opportunity that exists.
Forming a stagnant pool of thoughts and life experience rather than a free flowing river of life.
The maharishi calls OM/AUM the magic symbol.
He says Om is the mantra of the sanyasi. Repeat, mediate on OM è sanyas diksha. When time has come for complete renouncation of attachment to the world.
Renouncation and detachment increase with repeatation of OM. Puts end to desires. Desires are destroyed by repetition. Deep desires rooted in mind will also be destroyed and one can become wholly desireless. 
(Probarly as AUM’s high vibration rate doesn’t allow other thoughts to remain in the mind in their deep rooted state, stimulating a mental clearout) 
If unfortunately the householder begins this mantra meditation he experience destructive effects in his material life. The effects starts with monetary loss and then goes on to destroy all objects of affection one by one. Such a man may find, loss of money separation from close ones, utter frustration and peacelessness.

In this aspect Guru Nanak Jee has given sikhi as a methodology for the householder/sanyasi,. Remain in the world but not of it. Be attached, but at same time be detached from it all. A very zen way of life.
This ideology reached an apex with Guru Gobind Singh Jee developing this further into concept of khalsa with Sikhs as Sant-Saphhiyie. Sikhs to be a positive force for good. Saint soldiers create khalsa è A Land of pure souls.

Maharishi commented that when time of creation came. It is held by almost all religions that the great lord wishes creation to be, or desires creation to be. 

Vedas è I am one, maybe I became many. 
Genesisè In the being was the word and the word was with god.

When god desires or in other words when it is time for creation to begin then in that silent imbounded ocean of life a stir is created à a quantum flucatution in the zero point field. 
In trying to describe this ‘stir’ an analogy was made.
If you take a body of water lying in a big flat dish and the water is till. Then you give a push from the side with a little jerk. The whole body of water moves and vibrates. 
H-MMMN
That’s means the first subltest vibration starts and that is the start of creation. à more of a subtle vibration/echo than ‘a big bang’. From that eternal silence a hum starts and that hum is OM / AUM.



Om is thus the word of god it is also without meaning. It is a phonetically note. An audible sound. It is remarkably similar to other words of power amen (christanity), amin (islam). 
The first silent wave, starting from the silent ocean of unmanifest life, that all the greats have endoured to get in tune with. 

Yogananda in the ‘autobiography of yogi’ points to a similar direction.

The infinte potencies of sound derivie from the creative word aum. The cosmic vibratory power behind all atomic energies. 

Any word spoken with with clear regulation and deep concentration has a materialising value. Loud and silent repetition of inspiring words has been found effective in couism and similar systems of psycotheraphy the secret lies in stepping up the minds’ vibratory rate. 
What maharishi was warning of using om simran as fear of reality hitting face on to unprepared people as the mind’s vibratory rate is increased to primal rate.

Yogananda writes extensively on the qualities of sounds.
He continues 
The potencies sound and of vach ( the human voice) have nowhere else been so profoundly investigated as in india. 
The aum vibration reverberates throughout the universe (the ‘word’ or ‘the voices of many waters’ of the bible) has three manifestations creation, preservation and destruction
(The basic unit foundation of creation on which the whole of the manifest is world is built and held together) the creative voice of god, heard as AUM- the vibration of the cosmic motor.

In the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word was god. 
John 1.1

Each time man utters a word he puts into force one of the three qualities of AUM. This is the lawful reasoning behind the injunction that man should speak the truth.




Biblical words refer to the three fold nature of god as the father, the son, and the holy spirit.
GOD the father, the absolute unmanifest existing beyond all vibratory creation. The source of all creation. From which everything is born.
SON the son, is the Christ consciousness (brahma). The Christ conciousness is the only begotten or sole reflection of the uncreated infinite.
The outward manifestation of the omnipresent Christ conciousness its witness is AUM, the word or the holy ghost. 
The invisible divine power the only doer, the sole causative and actual force, that holds the whole of creation through vibration.
‘no man hath seen god at any time’
(no mortal under ‘time’ and the relativities of maya can realises the infinite.
‘The only begotten son, which is in the bosom of the father
(the reflected Christ conciousness, or outwardly projected perfect intelligence that is guiding all structural phenomena through AUM vibration has issued forth from the ‘bosom’ or deeps of the uncreated divine in order to express the variety of unity) he hath declared him.

AUM is the blissful comforter heard in meditation and reveals to the devotee the ultimate truth à brings all things into remembrance. 
The acient rishi’s discovered these laws of sound alliance between nature and man is an objectification of AUM the primal sound or vibrating word. Man man has control over all natural manifestations through the use of certain defined mantras, chants or words. 

Kriya yoga consists of body discipline, mental control and meditating on AUM
Patanjali speaks of god as the actual cosmic sound of Aum that is heard in meditation.
AUM is said to be the creative word/sound/shabd. The whir of the vibratory motor of the cosmos, the witness of divine presence, even beginners in yoga may soon hear the wonderous sound of AUM.

‘These things saith the AMEN, the faithful and the true witness, the beginning of the creation of god – revelation 3:14
In the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word was god.’

….all things were made by him (word or aum) and without him was not anything made that was made - John 1 1:3

AUM of the Vedas became the sacred HUM of the Tibetans, AMIN of the Moslems, AMEN of the Egyptians, Romans, Jews and Christians
It’s meaning in Hebrew is sure / faithful. 


So guru nanaks statement and revelation was a universal quantifier. 
EK ONKAR SATNAAM. 
Shabd yoga – mantra to transcend mental and physical realms- from sikh
aum is root sound of creative force, primal vibration, the big bang or subtle echo? Quantum theory’s primal string. The super string. 




Guru Nanak Jees’ revelation recognises the unity and source of all the religious and spiritual endeavours. All past prophets having connected with the same divine creative source, the only difference being the culture and context the messages have been delivered. 

A different conception from that of the Trinitarian reality sat, tat, aum.
Or father, son, and the holy ghost. Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva represents the trine expressions of god in the aspect of tat or son à the Christ conciousness imminent in vibratory creation. The shakti’s energies or ‘consorts’ of the trinity are symbols of AUM. Or the holy ghost the sole causative force that upholds the cosmos via vibration.

‘O lord …. Thou hast created all things and for the pleasure they are and were created.’ Revelation 4:11

Guru nanak asks us to keep in mind the true name/sound/shabd at all times, forever connecting us to our source and creator, then all righteous living modes will be assimilated with effortless ease and with god’s grace. 

As Christ said ‘ ****connect to spirit and thy faith will do the rest’
Similar statement as Guru Nanak dev jee never implied the need for any man to change their religion. But approach this with a sincere attitude and seeing the communality and brotherhood of all mankind.
On a physical level it is said that Mans’ body battery is not sustained by gross (bread) food alone, but by the vibratory cosmic energy (word/shabd/Aum) 
This invisible energy flows into the human body through the gate of the medulla oblongetta. This sixth bodily centre is located at the back of the neck at the top of the five spinal chakras ( Sanskrit word for energy wheels, centres or junctions, radiating life force)

The medulla is the principle entrance for the bodies supply universal energy (AUM) is directly connected by polarity with the with the Christ conscious centre in the single eye between the eye brow, the seat of a man’s power of will. Cosmic energy is then stored up in the seventh centre, in the brain, as a reservoir of infinite potenalities (mentioned in the Vedas as a thousand petaled lotus of light)

The bible refers to AUM as the holy ghost or invisible life force that divinely upholds all of creation.
‘what ? know ye not that your body is the temple of the holy ghost which is in you. Which ye have of god and ye are not your own’ 
I.Corinthians

A mantra is a potent vibratory chant. The literal translation mantra from the Sanskrit is à An instrument of thought.
it signifies ‘the ideal, inaudible sounds which represent one aspect of creation; when vocalised as syllables a mantra constitutes a universal terminology (Websters new international dictionary)
à gurbani and eurthymy explains this.
The infinite powers of sound are derived from aum, the word or creative hum of the cosmic motor.

A mantra has relation to (5th chakra) breath as link between the mind and body. Breathe with focus on mantra strengthens connection and overcomes duality. Simraan on AUM allows mind body links to strengthen within the highest vibratory energies.

The bible reveals that the Hebrew prophets were well aware that god has made the breathe as a subtle link between body and soul.

‘the lord god formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils and man became a living soul’ –Genesis

Rudolf Steiner in his book ‘The fifth gospel says that AUM was the root sound that Jesus was refer to in his prayers amen has been the cultural interpretation


The human body is composed of chemical and metallic substances that are also found in the ‘dust of the ground’ 
The flesh of man could never carry on activity nor manifest energy and motion were it not for the life currents transmitting by the soul to body through the breathe (gaseous energy). The life currents, operating in the human body are an expression of the AUM vibration of the omnipresent soul.

‘Be still and know that I AM god. His omnipresence the lord is heard only through immaculate silences. Reverberating through the universe as the creative AUM vibration, the primal sound instantly translates itself into intelligible words for the devotee in attainment.

To the prophet Isaiah, god revealed his intentions in these words
‘ So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth; it shall not return me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing where to I sent it.
For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands’.
waheguru je ka khalsa waheguru je ke fateh
Ranjeev Singh 
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## Satyaban (Mar 3, 2006)

Namaste,
That was a great post.  I have found one element that I would like to discuss further.
"_If unfortunately the householder begins this mantra meditation he experience destructive effects in his material life. The effects starts with monetary loss and then goes on to destroy all objects of affection one by one. Such a man may find, loss of money separation from close ones, utter frustration and peacelessness."_

_Through meditation one arrives at compassionate detachment before renunciation. I consider this carrying out ones duties selflessly without expectation and doing no harm. I understand the tradition is after household duties are fulfilled then renunciation shoud begin. Detachment being the prelude to renunciation._

_It is attachments to this world that keep us from realizing that essence of God that we really and eternally are.:advocate: _


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## 21khalsa13 (Mar 13, 2006)

_It is attachments to this world that keep us from realizing that essence of God that we really and eternally are.:advocate: ___________________
absolutley!! 

my point was adoption of this princple (whole mind concentration, understanding and actualisation) eliminates these minor vibrations. these lesser vibrations begin to pale in complexion. the longer and deeper the quality of time spent contemplating this phenomen deepens this experience. "_If unfortunately the householder begins this mantra meditation he experience destructive effects in his material life. The effects starts with monetary loss and then goes on to destroy all objects of affection one by one. Such a man may find, loss of money separation from close ones, utter frustration and peacelessness."_

"_If unfortunately the householder begins this mantra meditation he experience destructive effects in his material life. The effects starts with monetary loss and then goes on to destroy all objects of affection one by one. Such a man may find, loss of money separation from close ones, utter frustration and peacelessness."_

this quote was from maharishi reflecting/advocating the hindu practices of householder first then saanyas. in sikhi, i believe there is no separtion between life and god. it is not an either, or, situation it is an and. not either life or god. life and god !!


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