# Guru Bani Translation



## ravneet_sb (Nov 11, 2018)

Sat Sri Akaal,

Guru's Bani language of origin are Sanskrit, Persian, Bhojpuri, etc. These languages are neither taught nor community has understanding. The text written in Gurmukhi can not be interpreted directly by readers.

The followance of transaltions, is prevailing, the translations carry the author's Mind Set at instance it may be just opposite to the the teaching.

Is there any code of conduct REHAT for translation books. 
As the relevance of Guru Granth Sahib teachings is with translations as the languages taught in schools are not prevalent.

Like SGGS there is preserved, is there any institution check on transaltions to preserve righteous translation.


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## Ishna (Nov 11, 2018)

No, I'm not aware of any such thing.  I'm not sure it would even be possible since even people who know how to read and understand the text in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji arrive at different understandings.  So if the people who understand the original text don't agree, how is there supposed to be a "righteous" translation.

It's a great thought but sadly I don't think it's realistic.


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## ravneet_sb (Nov 11, 2018)

Sat Sri Akaal,

So there was culture of debate/discussion to conclude. One convince other, till thoughts are concluded, a way of action is set up.

This is from belief and understanding.

TRUTH is ONE, and can never be two or more. 
Even varied perception are for same object. But objective truth is ONE.   

 It is hard work, for obtaining objective realisation. For each conclusions, there is vote of all participant.  In case of righteous approach, it has maximum likes maybe 100% or the contradiction contains opinion of contradictor.
But participants are devote. 
Hope this was WAY, and should be way to validate translattion, through experts, though hard WORK.
It is much needed to revive righteous education. 

Bring communities together, and understand plural culture

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## sukhsingh (Nov 12, 2018)

Bani is presented in poetic form on top of which it is set to music.. Personally I believe that no translation will ever be sufficient and I also believe that this was done by design to ensure that the pernicious nature of dogmatism would never be able to corrupt bani but also actually forces those of us interested in understanding bani to perform khoj, rationally, scientifically.. Anyone who has, for instance, undertaken textual analysis of a poem in English literature class will know that there are no full stops in exegesis of a text.. Any exegesis or analysis whilst being useful can only ever be a commentary never conclusive.. Even bhai gurdas jis commentaries are written in verse..

I believe if guru sahibs in all their infinite wisdom wanted to provide literal commentary they would have done so..


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## sukhsingh (Nov 12, 2018)

I have to this day never read a succinct expression of the first 2 and most distilled expression of sikh philosophy ੴ.. Nevermind moving beyond that..

That is not to say translations and exegesis or katha is not useful..


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## ravneet_sb (Nov 12, 2018)

sukhsingh said:


> I have to this day never read a succinct expression of the first 2 and most distilled expression of sikh philosophy ੴ.. Nevermind moving beyond that..
> 
> That is not to say translations and exegesis or katha is not useful..



Sat Sri Akaal,

ONE is source, 
is origin, 
is objective realisation,
 is initiation of learning, SIKH. 

Without duality
It cant be two or more in realisation, 
as source, or
 as TRUTH.

Objective realisation is initiation to learning 

Objective TRUTH is ONE.
 This was ever and never ending.
Without understanding concept of ONE 
how can initiate learning and be learner.
And where is destined and destination.

It leads to ONE .     

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## sukhsingh (Nov 13, 2018)

ravneet_sb said:


> Sat Sri Akaal,
> 
> ONE is source,
> is origin,
> ...


Not quite as succinct though is it?

Also representation as numeral kind of reaffirms its indivisibility


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## sukhsingh (Nov 13, 2018)

ravneet_sb said:


> Sat Sri Akaal,
> 
> ONE is source,
> is origin,
> ...


I'm also not convinced you address oangkar ..


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## ravneet_sb (Nov 13, 2018)

Sat Sri Akaal,

O ANG refer to all other generated foms,.  Like COSMIC UNIVERSE as ONE complete  generated forms are part of it.   Like ONE as BODY and body parts as ANG.   
Realise as a WHOLE or a UNIT all is ONE

Kar. All done from by off from ONE

Refers doer of transition of energy as source of light sound gas liquid solid. Etc. 

All creation is originated from ONE source and all done by Nature 

SAT. This is TRUTH

NAAM.   Objectively Realised TRUTH in form of WORD.  for transedence transference.
ੴ.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## ravneet_sb (Nov 14, 2018)




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## ravneet_sb (Nov 14, 2018)

Sat Sri Akaal,

At some  instance, for translation readings, one have feeling that righteous approach to translated text missed objective realisation, and communities concerned do work, for right set up.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## swarn bains (Nov 14, 2018)

gurbani has been written by 43 divine persons. divinity is in the mind not the brain. every guru or saint who wrote the gurbani wrote in sant bhasha. sant bhasha is for spiritual people. the alphabets do not matter here. the divine person can understand it no matter what language it is written in. the people like me and others who try and translate it do it from the brain. they involve language, grammar and their own education in it. that is the main reason it cannot be translated properly. it is poetry and a poet also can understand it a bit better than just phd holder from university of patiala. i give u an example the last stanza is khast raag un gaie sang ragini tees, sabhe putr ragan ke atharah das bees. most of us translate it as the gurbani has been sung in 30 tunes and all 48 are the sons of God. by the way who are those? it is a mitake between the brain calculation and poetry and education. it means that gurbani is sung in six major tunes including sub tunes total  30 tunes and all are the sons of God the ragan whether they are eighteen, ten or twenty. this has been done in order to complete the couplet to match the first half. in fact every bani can only be translated either the writer or a divine person. the language does not matter.


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## ravneet_sb (Nov 14, 2018)

Sat Sri Akaal,

Truly said divine person can understand it, but when it reaches to common man, who just believes in action, and not education.  Translations has path for them, or they shall be able to decipher language.  The essence shall come to common man, who has not much resources and time beyond earning his livelyhood, so that Natures Truth shall reach to all, and serving community shall not be divided on basis of food, caste, color etc. to rule and exploit them.  Good governance and uniformity of LAW practice shall be concern, by giving righteous education. Beyond reasons there is right and wrong which governs.

If the local masses who committed politically derived crimes, if the righteous education is there they could have questioned a fanatic politician, why to kill a HUMAN in SERVICE.



Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## swarn bains (Nov 14, 2018)

there are two types of prophets. first one are divine. they the one who are born with divine knowledge by birth and they are two Krishan and Nanak. these prophets are know from birth and the public knows it.
the second type of prophets are social. they are those who did lot of good work for their community and then the community calls them prophets. they are some
guru Nanak being a divine prophet. his teaching is to the masses and it is a true teachings. where ever he went he wrote in their language to teach public. his teaching is so difficult that it just flies over the head.
rest of the writers of sggs write to relieve their pain . by writing the pain of mind and soul, they feel relieved and that is the main cause of their writing. some times when they see the soceity going astray then they also try to guide but in true sense it is the pain in the heart which makes them to write.


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## Logical Sikh (Nov 14, 2018)

swarn bains said:


> guru Nanak being a divine prophet


Define DIVINE.....
To me, Born with divine knowledge seems more fitting....


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## Logical Sikh (Nov 14, 2018)

swarn bains said:


> his teaching is so difficult that it just flies over the head.


No, they don't.


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## Admin (Nov 15, 2018)

Logical Sikh said:


> Born with divine knowledge



What is "divine knowledge" logically thinking?


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## Logical Sikh (Nov 15, 2018)

Aman Singh said:


> What is "divine knowledge" logically thinking?


If DiVine is a GOD ...... then i would define "Divine Knowledge" as Realistic/*Scientific knowledge* About the Eternal Entity.


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## Admin (Nov 15, 2018)

Logical Sikh said:


> "Divine Knowledge" as Realistic/*Scientific knowledge* About the Eternal Entity.



Is there any shabd in SGGS, our only Guru, where any of the Guru's claimed to have divine knowledge?


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## ravneet_sb (Nov 15, 2018)

Sat Sri Akaal,

Evoked Divinity,. Divine Knowledge, .  Etc... is too intellactual for commons    A simple translation with right essence or meaning in common spoken language will do   Some words and sentence are difficult. 

Have a feel of ritualustic person who can act on prunciples, as guided.   
So guidance in simple words, prevailing  language shall be there.

So righteous practice as intended are followed by commons.

It is for followers,
not only thinkers, not only visualisers, or not only vocals
but followers,
who act, who serve.
who listens and perform, but are unable to make speeches, write books, make visuals, or make new ideas. 
Who are nos and form democracy, 
are prey to politics and false religious ways

So they have righteous knowledge to bring in practice.

Simran while Serve.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## Logical Sikh (Nov 15, 2018)

Aman Singh said:


> Is there any shabd in SGGS, our only Guru, where any of the Guru's claimed to have divine knowledge?


Well, quite an interesting question....
I do not have answer for that, sir... Yet!


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## swarn bains (Nov 15, 2018)

no


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## sukhsingh (Nov 15, 2018)

ravneet_sb said:


> Sat Sri Akaal,
> 
> O ANG refer to all other generated foms,.  Like COSMIC UNIVERSE as ONE complete  generated forms are part of it.   Like ONE as BODY and body parts as ANG.
> Realise as a WHOLE or a UNIT all is ONE
> ...


Yes but you see the limitations with any translation


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## ravneet_sb (Nov 15, 2018)




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## ravneet_sb (Nov 15, 2018)




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## ravneet_sb (Nov 15, 2018)

Sat Sri Akaal,

Above is screen shot of downloaded app for listening and transaltion of jab bani.  It is free download.

Bull philosphy was rejected.
If the bull takes load of earth.

Than take load earth, how many such celestial bodies are in universe.

How much is the load whick keeps these celestial objects in position and movement.

This was for cocreators who feels themselves in comparison to creator.

Shall realise this, if mystical bull can hold this load with compassion.


Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## ravneet_sb (Nov 19, 2018)

Sat Sri Akaal,

Is wrong translation of SGGS beadabi.
Who checks on this.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## Ishna (Nov 19, 2018)

ravneet_sb said:


> Sat Sri Akaal,
> 
> Is wrong translation of SGGS beadabi.
> Who checks on this.
> ...



That assumes there is just one "right" translation.  Furthermore, it assumes there's just one "right" understanding of Gurbani, full stop.

It's a very dangerous road you're on.  It's how wars start, my friend.


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## ravneet_sb (Nov 19, 2018)

Sat Sri Akaal,

No there cant be one subjective perception, but there is one objective of perception.  For eg take any object say.

Created word cant have two objective meaning.  But can have many subjective versions.

Focus is on objective realisation.

Human Body

The perception comes different from

Doctors Engineers CA Cobbler Barber Washerman. But object is same

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## ravneet_sb (Nov 19, 2018)

Sat Sri Akaal,
Selling or propagating as a translation to convey objective spirit of idea.
Charan.  Kamal  Translated as Lord Lotus Feet.  
Kaman.  As Woman. Portraying woman as cause of lust

May be more learning is required to understand.

How to resolve this part of wrong translation
Is this relates to Beadbi.  
Or
Where is check on idea translation 


Waheguru Ji Khalsa
Waheguru Ki Ki Fateh


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## Logical Sikh (Nov 19, 2018)

ravneet_sb said:


> How to resolve this part of wrong translation
> Is this relates to Beadbi.
> Or
> Where is check on idea translation
> ...


I think the best way to make a change is by creating a High enough Place/Status for yourself in the community so that when you speak, Everybody listens, As only awareness can make a difference. whether you contribute in literature, Activism, some business whatever, as long as you are not invited on the stage to address the Congregation, i think its hard to tell everyone what is your opinion on certain Topics and make a difference.


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## ravneet_sb (Nov 20, 2018)

Sat Sri Akaal,

Is there a high place there after years of existence, and establishment or yet to be established, and a leader representation of congregation where a concern of a common Sikh can be presented for Activationin process.

Who are key personal
How to contact

They have charge of institutional education  Policy maker for discourse.

Is this existing, and posted at all Gurudwara for raising concerns.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## Logical Sikh (Nov 20, 2018)

ravneet_sb said:


> Sat Sri Akaal,
> 
> Is there a high place there after years of existence, and establishment or yet to be established, and a leader representation of congregation where a concern of a common Sikh can be presented for Activationin process.
> 
> ...



I think Sikh Missionaries are doing a pretty good job about raising Sikh related concerns.


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## ravneet_sb (Nov 20, 2018)

Sat Sri Akaal,

Not fit to address congregation of religious practitiiners,. as only experential learning is there, for which text is already there for experiences expression 

As yet weak on hold of languages, but only have concept to share.
For literal discussion, some high literary person is accompanied to share concept and literary understanding 

For eg
 Nirbhau 
but when thought needs in realistic world
Parametres are
TRUTH practice when we follow lie fear is evoked
TIME Followance when we dont follow timelines fear is evoked
Like this what evokes fear and how to build chracter
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## ravneet_sb (Nov 20, 2018)

Logical Sikh said:


> I think Sikh Missionaries are doing a pretty good job about raising Sikh related concerns.


Any contacts and reference of active organisation in Punjab. Who are open to accept, who work for of and by the people.


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## Logical Sikh (Nov 20, 2018)

ravneet_sb said:


> Any contacts and reference of active organisation in Punjab. Who are open to accept, who work for of and by the people.


Baljeet Singh Delhi and Sarabjit Singh Dhunda are two guys ( that i know of ) who are pass outs from SIKH MISSIONARY COLLEGE, are actively speaking and raising sikh concerns all around the world, and openly appreciate, acknowledges the Sikh missionary college.
and countless other youth who goes un-noticed at Their ( college's ) SAMAGAMS.
no, i dont know if they are public funded or not btw.


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## A_seeker (Nov 20, 2018)

Aman Singh said:


> What is "divine knowledge" logically thinking?


Divine Knowledge is to see ,realize your self    Who  am I?
ਇਉ ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਮਨ ਤੂੰ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪੁ ਹੈ ਅਪਣਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਪਛਾਣੁ ॥੫॥ (sggs 441).

Divine Knowledge can also called as Self Knowledge and it comes from understanding  ,Understanding means giving right values to all things and to know oneself (to become Gurmukh )& to help us in this   engaging in  shabad vichaar is very important


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