# Which Religions Will Last In Their Current Forms?



## Neutral Singh (Aug 16, 2004)

Simple question. Which of the current crop of world religions will be around in a recognisable form in 1000 years time from now, and what features of them do you think contribute to their durability? 

Or if you prefer, what characteristics of specific current religions do you think will contribute to their demise? 

Regards


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## Neutral Singh (Aug 16, 2004)

Please support your choice(s) with 'reasons' for Why Yes & Why Not... 

thanks


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## Singhstah (Oct 27, 2004)

SIKHI, because we will have khalsa raj


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## S|kH (Oct 27, 2004)

LOL @ the people who actually think Sikhi will last.
And in current form Sikhi incorporates Khalsa which incorporates the 5 K's.
Which, if you think thats gonna last the test of time...then ha.

Buddhism and Hinduism are the only ones that so far seem as if they will last for that long. Buddhism I'm pretty sure of, but not so sure about Hinduism.


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## etinder (Oct 27, 2004)

dear slkh please quote the reasons for ur views.


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## S|kH (Oct 27, 2004)

etinder, if your still online...please check PM immediately.


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## Singhstah (Oct 28, 2004)

S|kH said:
			
		

> LOL @ the people who actually think Sikhi will last.
> And in current form Sikhi incorporates Khalsa which incorporates the 5 K's.
> Which, if you think thats gonna last the test of time...then ha.
> 
> Buddhism and Hinduism are the only ones that so far seem as if they will last for that long. Buddhism I'm pretty sure of, but not so sure about Hinduism.



If youve got an attitude like that why are you still a Sikh?WHy not convert to Buddhism or hinduism


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## etinder (Oct 28, 2004)

*Moderator's Note : hey guys lets not be personal here, Slkh ji i request you to kindly quote the references/reasons*


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## Arvind (Oct 28, 2004)

Singhstah said:
			
		

> If youve got an attitude like that why are you still a Sikh?WHy not convert to Buddhism or hinduism


Singhstah, I object your reply.

S|kh, please support your views with references.

*Moderator's Note : No personal attacks please. Thanks for the help.*


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## S|kH (Oct 28, 2004)

Singhstah said:
			
		

> If youve got an attitude like that why are you still a Sikh?WHy not convert to Buddhism or hinduism



I am Sikh because I can admit the Sikh and Khalsa panth's faults and deterioration. I am not a blind follower to the masses, I am no tool. I will not just believe. 

I am Sikh because I contemplate the Guru's meaning and the meaning of the truth. 

I am Sikh because I use reason and rationale to disregard rituals, and blind faith. 

I will NOT convert to what ever is best suitable for the society, or whatever seems to "last longer". 

What does my view of the future of Sikhi have anything to do with me being Sikh? 

I am Sikh because instead of sitting back and hoping for someone to fix the problem, I will state the problem until everyone is aware so we can fix it together. Or I will attempt to fix it myself.

Matter of fact, I can be the last sardar alive, the last Khalsa alive (I'm not Khalsa yet, but someday....soon, hopefully)..and I'll have known that I lived my life the way I wanted to, and lived it to the fullest. 

I do not believe in a messiah, I do not believe Bhindranwale will come back and save us, I do not believe Guruji will return to show us the way. 

This is life, these are our problems, and if you can't even see these problems, then the future that I state is highly probable for the Sikhs.

thanks for the personal attacks


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## S|kH (Oct 28, 2004)

etinder said:
			
		

> *Moderator's Note : hey guys lets not be personal here, Slkh ji i request you to kindly quote the references/reasons*




Buddhism is often referred to a "psychology" rather than a religion. Everything in Buddhism is basically based off experience rather than belief. They do not believe in dieties that will help, or dieties that did help humans. They do not care if the creationism or evolutionism is correct. They live for Nirvana, which is a clear mind state, which everyone can experience. 

Sikhism in it's current form will not last, because as society progresses, (whats that word...worried about looks, ascetics?) also increases. No one can relate the reasons to be Khalsa and put it into words that see fit for todays youth. People lose belief in diety that controls over them. That is why most westernized cultures lose belief in God. Whether this is good or bad, is your decision to make. But, as cultures become more advanced, the necessity to meditate on a supreme diety over you declines. No one see's it necessary. Sikhism relies on a belief in God, and that God *created* you the way you are, and you shouldn't change it. (i.e. keep your hair). This answer will not be sufficient enough for most youth, hence Sikhi in its current form will not last.

What we do need, is a book or some sort of written form, that will unite Khalsa with the essence of Sikhi, and make it so evident and true that kids will also read it in wanderment. 

Sikhi will become so personal, that it'll just be either only a "hereditary" thing, or just practiced among a small circle of families. That is a GREAT change from todays form of Sikhi.


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## Eclectic (Nov 10, 2004)

Believe it or not, I think if the newer religions such as Christianity do not acknowledge their apparent mixed history of earlier religions, I think people will move to the tribal early religions as a way of getting in touch.


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## S|kH (Nov 12, 2004)

The Wiccan religion, or pagan...is actually increasing "membership" in the United States


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## Sher_Singh (Nov 12, 2004)

Meri Sikhi Mahaan!


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## Eclectic (Nov 12, 2004)

S|kH said:
			
		

> The Wiccan religion, or pagan...is actually increasing "membership" in the United States



Paganism is a very broad term for _many_ faiths. There is a discussion about it here on the forums if you're interested in learning more about this umbrella term. Wicca is but a portion of the vast Pagan religions.


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## Lionchild (Dec 23, 2006)

Sadly, not sikhi, it is going to much inot rituals and getting more and more culturally polarized. Not to mention that we are way far behind in terms of reaching out and being more organized. I wanted to vote for bahiai as the religion that will remain intact.


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## Dimitri (Dec 24, 2006)

I don't see sikhism lasting. 
Who came up with term Sikh anyway, was it the ppl who followed Guru Nanak's teachings?

Religions come and go.

Who Knows whats in stores. Another enlightened sole might come in 200yrs from now and his/her followers might start a new path. it is already happening to some extent.

Thanks to communication age the message in Guru Granth Saheb is spreading. People are amazed by science mentioned in Guru Granth Saheb for example, those who can read it in Gurmukhi admire its poetic nature. But i don't see people becoming sikhs in terms of kesh.

The base of any religion are its teachings or the base is the holy book. In my opinion Guru Granth Saheb invokes spirituality, it did in my case. I believe in God. But i don't see my self ever taking amrit at the moment.

Can someone please tell me where in Guru Granth Saheb it is written, Kesh is Gods gift, so we shall not cut it...or thats how God made us..so we shall not change it.

5k's are the uniform of the Khalsa. It is an announcement to the world here i am. Khalsa fights against injustice, tries to protect the week. Its as much a soldier as its a saint. What soldier like attributes do the current sikhs have. One who have 5'ks - how many of these practice martial arts. Can they even defend themselves? 

The pure Khalsa, 5ks - true saint soldier are only very few at the moment. i only see them decreasing over time. but i do see the message of Guru Granth Saheb spreading over time.


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## navroopsingh (Dec 25, 2006)

It is in the rehat maryada and i think that should be enough...I think that sikhi will last once we get a PROPER leadership, get organized, and an inspiration for the youth to try to understand this beautiful faith...if not sikhi it will be either Buddhism or Bhai'a because the rest act like businesses(it seem's that is the way that sikhism is going as well)


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## Dimitri (Dec 25, 2006)

Pardon my ignorance but who created the Rehat.
Was it the gurus?


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## navroopsingh (Dec 26, 2006)

Well firstly there was the rehat that the guru's compiled but afterwards many different rehats have been compiled and only recently was one acknowledged as the one to follow...however different sects do follow different ones

To find more on then, try searching on sikhwiki.com or google, sure ull find some info u need


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## Sinister (Dec 29, 2006)

NONE! (even if we do make it 1000 years from now)

religous conservatism has never existed/or been sustained (even in sikhism).

the faiths may simply retain there respected titles but the practice of the vairous faith is going to change.


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## ekmusafir_ajnabi (Jan 7, 2007)

*Which religions will last in their current forms?* 

I believe it will be Christianity and Islaam. Why?
Our Babbees and Sants are already set to distroy our history by burrying it under Marbel.
Once history is distroyed the religion falls weak.
Our Gurdwaras are no longer intrested in promoting faith they are there to take your "Dasband" only. Go elsewhere for guidance because they themselves do not know their religion.
A sikh is now a person who no longer respects the teachings of our Gurus or understands the phillosphy of Sikhism. 
They are no longer Lions but have begun to show their true colour. They are actually sheeps. They simply follow the person ahead.
Our preechers are illeterate they cannot communicate other than in their mother tongue. They cannot think laterally.
We do not listern to our younger generation who are crying out for help as they cannot fully communicate thier feels to our preechers.
The heads of our Gurudwaras is generally older generation gone past the sell-by date who are adamant not to let anyone forward as long as they are alive and think strongly that their opinion about Sikh Religion and its Phillosphy is the correct version
I can go on and on and on.... but would that make any difference LOL. Offcourse not. Who is prepared to listern. 
We are dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooomed as a religion.

SOMEBODY HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP!

Can you help Sikhism survive? 

"Jadon baad khet to khaan lag pavey tan us no bacchaey ga KON"


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## navroopsingh (Jan 7, 2007)

Im gonna make your day by telling you exactly what is happening in certain gurdwara's and what should happen to every other gurdwara that truly needs reform. Recently the gurdwara sahib Sukh Sagar in new westminister handed over the gurdwara commitee to the youth on the centennial of the Khalsa Diwan Society.

*Thousands come together in New Westminster to participate in Khalsa Diwan Society’ s Centennial celebrations.*
New Westminster, BC, December 26, 2006:
Gurdwara Sahib Sukh Sagar, New Westminster celebrated the 100 year anniversary of the pioneer Sikh society, Khalsa Diwan Society, from December 15 to December 25, 2006.  The opening ceremony took place on December 15 onwards of which the congregation enjoyed a variety of scheduled events throughout the 10 day celebrations.  On Saturday December 16, 2006, close to 70 participants and over 400 viewers took part in the Khalsa Dastaar/ Dress (turban tying/dress) competition celebrating the Sikh identity in Canada. December 17 brought dozens of local, national and international dignitaries to the Gurdwara Sahib including politicians and Sikh officials from the RCMP. Speeches and presentations touched on the significant Sikh achievements of the past 100 years.
On Friday December 22, Mr. Harinder Singh from Texas put on a workshop for Sikh youth called The Guru: Connecting with the Divine Light which was attended by Sikh youth. On December 23, over 400 people filled the New Westminster Community Center for seminars on Sikh history, philosophy, drugs, and social challenges. Retired Supreme Court Justice Harvinder Singh Phoolka addressed the congregation during these seminars as well as DR Khem Singh Gill, former Vice Chancellor at Punjab Agricultural University and many more local presenters.
An International Gatka Exhibition was held on Sunday December 24, 2006 and took place at the Khalsa School in Surrey. Closing ceremonies took place on Monday December 25 where Sikh pioneers were honored for their service and hard work in the establishment of the Sikh community in the Lower Mainland. In addition to this the Sangat (congregation) of Khalsa Diwan Society, New Westminster had nominated over the course of the last six weeks, various descendants of Sikh Pioneers such as the Sikhs involved in establishing the society and descendants from the Kamagata Maru.
Local Sikh community activists and the achievements of the Sikh youth in the field of sports and education were also recognized during this day. An award ceremony also commenced on this day for the participants of the Gatka Tournament, Dastar (Turban), Khalsa Dress and Essay competition.
A special souvenir titled Khalsa Diwan Society: Celebrating 100 years of Sikh Achievements was released during the closing ceremonies by Baba Iqbal Singh from Baru Sahib, India and he also received recognition on behalf of Sant Baba Teja Singh, who registered the Khalsa Diwan Society and helped organize Vancouver Sikhs in the early 1900’s and thereafter went back to India and established the Kalgidhar Society which currently Baba Iqbal Singh currently oversees and operates over 22 schools and private hospitals and treatment centers in India. The souvenir which entails a compilation of articles on Sikhs in Canada will be shipped to libraries and communities across Canada.
An historical exhibition which featured scared Sikh Scriptures dating back over 200 years brought exclusively for this event from a private collection in Toronto as well as pictures of Sikh pioneers and temples dating back to 1897 was also on display.
The 10 day long celebrations not only celebrated 100 years of Sikh achievements but also marked the beginning of a new era as the youth. Thousands of members of the Sikh community enjoyed the celebrations which celebrated the past and showed a glimpse of a glorious Sikh future in Canada. During the closing ceremonies, the youth management committee thanked the hundreds of volunteers and organizations who helped put together the week long celebrations and vowed to continue to honor our pioneers and highlight the glorious Sikh history in Canada.

What we need to do is get the youth more involved in the gurdwara's and active in sikhi related subjects(ranging from punjabi to gatka). If we don't, we'll be seeing a lot more jehova's witness and christian missionaries knocking on our doors!


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jan 12, 2007)

I have always been really inaccurate when trying to predict the future.  I think it is unimportant which religion(s) survive.  Truth, and truthful living are all that really matter.  Let me quote part of an old poem:

What if cherished creeds must fade?
Faith will never leave us.
God preserves what God has made,
Nor can Truth deceive us.


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## gs_chana (Jan 12, 2007)

Dear Sangat, 

I find it rather amusing how everyone had "GANGED UP" on S[Ikh, or however you spell that name.

First of all SIKHI, not SIKHISM (emphasis being on the fact that SIKHI IS NOT A RELIGION, only for practical sense it is called Religion) WILL ONLY LAST IF WE HAVE PEOPLE LIKE S[IKH, Why? simple, Guru Nanak always questioned belief and looked at God and Spiritual Life with a Scientific Touch. 

Logic and reason can go hand in hand with faith and belief, as simply illustrated by Guru Granth Sahib. 

The bani in Guruji is incredibly scientific and logical yet has certain aspects to it which do require our belief and faith. 

The important point made by S[KH is that, 5k's will not last. However, 50% of me agrees and the other percentage disagrees. 

Why do I agree? Nowadays we hear all these stories of how when changing Kachera the old kachera should remain on one leg whilst putting on the new one, IN OTHER WORDS 5Ks must be with us at all times. However, I too do not follow blind faith, and I see this as simply being 21st Century Hinduism Rituals incorporated into Sikhi. READ THE STORY OF GURU NANAK AND WHEN HE REFUSED TO WEAR THE SACRED THREAD EMPOSED ON HIM BY THE PANDIT.

Lets not forget what Guru Gobind Singh JI Said, a sikh should be a saint, and IF NECESSARY a Soldier. What does this say? In my interpretations this is simple, apply common sense and it is seen simply that the Khalsa was created around a period of uncertainty, surrounded by constant threat to the well being of Sikhi and Guru Nanak's Faith. Death of Sikhs was the ways in which Sikhi could be eradicated, and so Guruji created this ORDER, a DIVINE ORDER called the Khalsa, which bears the uniform in the form of 5Ks. Amrit Sankar is the initiation to this Order, and following this order is a mix of Miri & Piri, because one becomes a solider and saint.

BUT GURU GOBIND SINGH JI DID SAY THAT IF NECESSARY, THEN BECOME A SOLDIER, simply saying, in my view (and God forgive if its wrong), Amrit Sankar is not compulsory, rather optional because one can find living by the way of the Khalsa allows him/her to attain oneness with God, wheras others May not necessary feel Khalsa is what is needed, rather Sikhi appeals to them, but not just not wearing the 5Ks. 

Nowadays we see how possible converts are put off by the need to adopt Khalsa bana as a means of becoming a Sikh. It is wrong to believe you cannot be a Sikh by not taking Amrit. A Sikh takes Amrit in the form of Gurbani NAAM JAAP. God is Amrit, drinking him we save our souls, but when we believe simple Amrit Sankar and wearing 5Ks makes us more of a Sikh than another, THEN WE ARE WRONG.

I hope you understand what I am trying to illustrate here, and I hope I get understanding response rather than an Ill-Wit response to this in which I will just be slandered. It is time to open our eyes, Sikhi will deteriorate into nothing more than a blindly followed faith, with empty rituals unless we remove our mis understandings, remove falsehood and instead center Sikhi not around politics, 5Ks, Sants, Gianis, Gurdwaras, BUT RATHER AROUND GURBANI and its understanding i.e. GURU GRANTH SAHIB…CURRENT GURU…IF YOU FORGOT.

Education and teaching of Guru Granth is necessary, and I hope one day we will all look back on our 100 year history of Sikhi in 20th Century and learn and realise the truth about Sikhi, so a 21st Century Sikhi looks bright.

Remember the Martyrs of 1984; they fought by way of Khalsa because it was necessary, Bhindrawale said, replace kirpan with revolvers, horses with Motorbikes, Swords with rifles, WHY WAS HE NOT SLANDERED AND SLAGGED OFF...because he made sense of what Khalsa means, and simply Khalsa was needed then to eradicate our enemies INDIAN FORCES, but in our modern days, SIKHI faces a psychological battle.

Fake Sants, Gurdwaras run as businesses, Lack of central role of Guru Granth, Lack of education with regard to Sikh Philosophy...the list goes on...and this is how sikhi will elevate to a higher status once we face our problems rather than sweep them under the carpet and put on this mask portraying a Glorious Face of Sikhi, which is actually far from it. LOOK AROUND YOU...LOOK IN INDIA...FAKE GURU’s LEFT RIGHT AND CENTER, OPEN ATTACKS ON SIKHS…MIX OF PHYSICAL AND MENTAL WARFARE…GO 2 GURDWARA NEX TIME AND TELL ME HOW MUCH YOU LEARNT IN THAT TIME OPPOSED TO HOW MUCH YOU LEARNT SIMPLY BY DOWNLOADING AN ENGLISH VERSION OF GURU GRANTH AND BECOMING A SIKH THAT WAY.


WAKE UP...

Gurdip Singh Chana..sorry for any mistakes and misunderstandings.


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## bawaj (Jan 12, 2007)

I feel that the philosophy of sikhism will last as will the philosophies of other religious doctorines. However since organised religion is new in human history and has been faced with emmense pressures I feel that organised relgion will fade away as more and more people will become alienated from it and ths end result would be that there is an emergence of universal dialectical thinking. what do you all think


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## chk1 (Jan 12, 2007)

Who knows what will happen tomorrow? Who knows whether Sikhi will become more popular, more widely followed and acknowledged or not? Based upon what is happening today, the war between the West and the East, i would say that religion generally will become more unpopular. This is because the two largest religions of the world (christianity and islam) are in current conflict and this is creating a chance for people to read up on the religions and find out what exactly they believe in.
Personally, the idea of religion isn't working, and whether you want to believe it or not, that is reality. This is because religions are organized, are increasingly dogmatic (as sikhi is becoming too with issues such as taking amrit etc) and we no longer see peace and love in our world. From my point of view, i believe that every religion is mainly all for peace in this world. Although some contradict themselves, the purpose of religion has indeed failed. We are not united, but increasignly distance ourselves. I have been reading the post about islam view on sikhism, and it is interesting to see those who are distancing themselves further and further apart and then they wonder why the world is in the state it is, why there are wars and violence! How can we be closer to God, if we are not close with one another? We are all children of the same God, we are one with each other and God. And this is where things are going wrong, things are not working because you cannot be close to the divine, be a model sikh or a model muslim and not have love, compassion and mercy for our fellow human beings.
Once people are willing to accept the need for change, then religions will see a transformation. Not just religion, but the people who interpret the religion to us, the people in "power" will have a different perspective and outlook on life and the world.
And i'd like to add, those of you are replying and saying sikhi is doomed, sikh religion will die, it will only "die" if you allow to it happen. If you sit and watch people become more disillusioned, full of hatred for people of different religions, and slander those, who like us are only trying to reach the divine the of course the religion will disappear. But i ask you all, to look within yourselves and realise the need for change, and to help make the change that you wish to see in the world. A little help goes a long way.
Thank you

Charan Kaur


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## Astroboy (Jul 31, 2007)

John Smith from Atheist Society Writes About Sikhism 
From: "Atheist Society" < atheist_society@hotmail.com >
To: afreethinker@hotmail.com
Subject: Dear Ali we have a problem, please help!
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 20:40:30 +0000 

Dear Ali, please help us. We were very impressed with your website and agreed that religion in general is no longer needed, we can all be humanistic and live in peace and harmony. We are in the process of making a website which will hopefully help to destroy the religious doctrines which divide humanity. We were doing great with knocking out Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Baha'i, even Buddhism but we have gotten very stuck with Sikhism. This religion is (to put it nicely) "a big pain in the ***" (Please pardon the language) We have only found one site which tries (very poorly) to argue that even this religion is not needed, but the argument is irrational and very unscientific unlike the very rational arguments you use. 

When we read the following from your website, we found what you said to be amazingly interesting: "Doubt Everything Find Your Own Light." "Last Words Dear friend, if you look for meaning in life, don’t look for it in religions; don’t go from one cult to another or from one guru to the next. You can expend all your life or look for eternity and will find nothing but disappointment and disillusionment. Look instead in service to humanity. You will find “meaning” in your love for other human beings. You can experience God when you help someone who needs your help. The only truth that counts is the love that we have for each other. This is absolute and real. The rest is mirage, fancies of human imagination and fallacies of our own making." By Ali Sina Why is this interesting? Because we found this religion of Sikhism to be in agreement with you! This is why we have a problem. We tried to look at their holy text (Adi Granth) but didnt find the usual absurdities we found in the other religious books. In fact its refreshingly inspiring and very good!? Maybe you can have some better luck. 

We tried to visit a couple of websites and got more of a shock. Did you know that they believed in Democracy, freedom of speech, choice, expression, freedom of religion, pluralism, human rights, equality between men and women, equality of all people regardless of race, religion, caste, creed, status etc. 300 years before the existance of the USA! Theirs is the only religion which says in their religious scriptures that women are equal in every respect to men. They even had women soldiers leading armies in to battle against "you know who" (The usual suspects - Muslims!) Their history is a proud one, they fought in both World Wars. Even Hitler praised them for their bravery and Aryan heritage! Dear Ali, this religion is hard for us to try and criticise but you are an expert and may find some faults overlooked by us. In their holy book, there is a round earth, water is made from chemical elements, there is even mention of the evoution process, big bang and life on other planets! This is pretty crazy and amazing stuff, who would have thought that these New York taxi drivers (There are lots of Sikh taxi drivers in NY) would have such an amzing faith? We read up some information of what Bertrand Russell had to say about Sikhism, this is the man who destroyed Christianity (same applies to Islam and Judaism) and exposed its absurdities, but even this great man got stuck when it came to Sikhism! In fact he gave up and said "that if some lucky men survive the onslaught of the third world war of atomic and hydrogen bombs, then the Sikh religion will be the only means of guiding them. Russell was asked that he was talking about the third world war, but isn't this religion capable of guiding mankind before the third world war? In reply, Russell said, "Yes, it has the capability, but the Sikhs have not brought out in the broad daylight, the splendid doctrines of this religion which has come into existence for the benefit of the entire mankind. This is their greatest sin and the Sikhs cannot be freed of it." 

Please bear in mind that Bertrand Russell was a great philosopher and free thinker. We have been trying for weeks now to find a way to fairly and rationally criticize and find fault with this religion but have failed. We even found out that there are many people converting to this religion in the USA and Europe as well as Russia (Mostly well educated and affluent white people). We tried to find some of their literature and see what kind of claims they make, but unfortunatley they have no missionary material as they do not have missionsaries! People become Sikh by learning usually by chance or by coming in to contact with them. They are currently the 5th biggest religion in the world and growing quite fast in the west and Russia. Please help us as we are stuck, to give you an example of they are all about we found the following websites: http://www.sikhnet.com (This is a pretty good site and helpful) http://www.hope.at/sikhism (This site is very easy to follow, check it out, they have a Womans section and a Martyrs section, it looks like that you are not the only one trying to expose the falseness of Islam, Sikhs scholars did it hundreds of years ago and got killed for it!) http://www.sikhs.org (This is the site that was on CNN when Sikhs in the USA were mistaken for Arabs and Middle Easterners and were attacked by mindless {censored}s) 

Please help us out, we cant make our website about religion being the cause of war and disharmony when we have this one and only religion which makes a hell of a lot of sense! lol (I thought Atheism had all the answers but were kind of stuck now.) We look forward to hearing from you, we respect your great views and want to promote them to everyone, thank you for your time, take care. 

Dr. John Smith


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## spnadmin (Jul 31, 2007)

Begum ji

Help me out with a practical problem. When I select the link at the top of your comment I end up at your blog. What is the original url where you found this article? 

On the face of it, though, it looks as if we are hanging out with the right people -- SadhSangaat.


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## Astroboy (Aug 1, 2007)

The site that you went to has a link. But since you did not notice it, here is that link:
Testimonies


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## Shaheediyan (Aug 1, 2007)

Religions and representations of God are many, and many have come and gone beknown to us.  Religions are mentioned by various posters, but which if these religions survives in their original "truth" finding form?

All religions today are exotric only a few truthful practioners (who can belong to any religion) are esoteric i.e. seeking the truth inside - Nij Ghar Mahal.

The only thing stands the test of time is truth:

Aad Sach

Jugaad Sach

Hai Bi Sach

Nanak, Hosi Bi Sach


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## spnadmin (Aug 1, 2007)

Begum,

Thanks for the link. Peace.


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## Astroboy (Aug 1, 2007)

I did my own search to find the original script and came close enough. There it is: http://www.amritbani.com/documents/Atheist Society looks at Sikh Dharam.pdf
Looks like the original script.

From aad0002 - Thanks Begum.


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## Shaheediyan (Aug 2, 2007)

What a blatent attempt at propoganda from not so clever Sikhs!

Yes, excellent way to propogate the faith, around deciept and devalueing all other religions.

_Evangelists!_


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## Sworn_Avenger (Aug 3, 2007)

Islam - Largest growing religion, strong faith.
Christianity - Political Power, Financial power, dominate religion of the western world.
Sikhism - Small numbers yet faithful, however on the border to pakistan when the inevitble war finally kicks off, punjab sikhs base is in the firing line. Even in the uk sikhs are in the firing line, every city/town muslims dominate it, leaving sikh youths feeling threatened apart from a few towns i.e Southall, Gravesend. Even southall these days is becoming more and more muslim. I see sikh boys converting daily to islam because of the pressure around, this is no exaggeration, there are gangs in London whos main ambition is to convert people to islam using severe violence. aka PDC, SMS. The only hope to fight back was shere punjab boys, but they tourned on their own sikh brothers, began extorting smal businesses, they were eventually chased down, half sent to prison half in hiding from the bigger sikh fish, but these people are only into making money, business, proeprty deals, flash cars. they do not care whats happening to their own people on the street.


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## kds1980 (Aug 3, 2007)

> I see sikh boys converting daily to islam because of the pressure around, this is no exaggeration, there are gangs in London whos main ambition is to convert people to islam using severe violence.



If sikh boys are converting to islam because of pressure then where is their fighting spirit
Is the situation more worse than 18thcentury.


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## Sworn_Avenger (Aug 3, 2007)

it depends on your area and situation. if your from a wealthy family, you don't tend to get caught up with the local gangs on the street, but if you live anywhere out of hose sikh safe havens and your family is not rich, then you will get cuaght up, i will say it is worse than the 1980's right now its sick. The stories i hear makes my community want to go out on vigilante attacks against certain groups. E.G Sikh girls are being raped constantly until they convert. Boys are beating beaten and stabbed half to death until they convert. Its crazy, i cant explain the situation its too much!


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## kds1980 (Aug 3, 2007)

Sworn_Avenger said:


> it depends on your area and situation. if your from a wealthy family, you don't tend to get caught up with the local gangs on the street, but if you live anywhere out of hose sikh safe havens and your family is not rich, then you will get cuaght up, i will say it is worse than the 1980's right now its sick. The stories i hear makes my community want to go out on vigilante attacks against certain groups. E.G Sikh girls are being raped constantly until they convert. Boys are beating beaten and stabbed half to death until they convert. Its crazy, i cant explain the situation its too much!



If the situation is so bad then what is uk police and law is doing.i thought that law and order in western countries is much better than india.but if what you are saying is true then 
this situation is no better than the law and order state of bihar.I don't think in indian cities anyone can rape a girl  and forces her to convert to hinduism or islam.


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## Sworn_Avenger (Aug 3, 2007)

Police in india is much better, apart from the corruption we hear of. Police can't do anything, the girl is to scared to report it, for her family, half the muslims doing it are illegal immigrants anyway, if they do get arrested no proof can be obtain or in the slight chance they do ge caught red handed they chances are they wont serve a prison sentence, and if they do it will be a maximum of 5 years. then they'll be a new illegal immigrant to replace them, it never stops theres to many. This only happens in certain areas but the scale it happens is much bigger than anyone thinks. Until u live here, and its your  mates its happening too, you wont understand because it will al sound a little farfetched


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## kds1980 (Aug 3, 2007)

are these muslims also targetting hindu's and christians or their specific target are only sikhs.?


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## vijaydeep Singh (Aug 3, 2007)

Gurfateh

Only Answer in there for UK is unity among Hindus,Jews,Sikhs and Christians against such hooligans.

But we are more interest over there to akj vs kala afghana or akj vs nihungs  or nihungs vs taksal and list is endless.

Sikhs being a Sirdar leader can unite the all forces mentioned above and move against these guys who want us to be converted.OK to join hands with BNP as they are also fed up with wahabi idiots.

In east London Seven Kings Gurudwara,go and Ask for Bhai Harpratap Singh Ji. After meeeting him send a PM to das.Das will try to let Nihungs and Hindus join hands with rest.Das has lost the contact of his buddies from BNP and Jews for last few months yet there could be some guys who will stil having some contact among us.

Best of luck and get cracking.

Eat and let girls also eat good lot of pork.convert their girls and thier boys.

Do not be defeinsve but be offensive.Akal will help.Bhai KDSingh Ji.

Wahabi over there are after Hindus,Christians and Jews also.

But Sikhs due to influnce of one Jatha you love to hate and Sants are to much ritualistic and divided so they fall easy pray.

Being to much supprressing in rituals ladies see soalce in Islamic world but by the time they know they are trapped it is too late.

Das has good numbers of missioanris has his firneds in London.But they wait for reform and are afraid to say truth in public beinf afraid of been beaten up.So they are of little help as fearfull person can not be a leader.

Nihungs are OK but have good lot of problems back home which makes them totaly incapable to convert the Muslim back to Gurmat.

Budhadal does not baptises Muslim or Christian as yet.Once das is able to gain thier permission then Gang of Sukha Singh,Kamroop Singh and Baba Nidder Singh will be able to carry out baptism over there.But this may take time.

So weather das succeds to reform Nihungs or not each Sikh under the guiandance of Guru Granht Sahihb as well as Sikh code of conduct by itself needs to be united in UK and take care of these Wahabis.

Some so called Khalisatani leaders are still soft on Muslims and tell Sikhs to restrain else suport they get from Pakistan givenement in uk could be effected.


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## kds1980 (Aug 3, 2007)

vijaydeep singh ji i too heard of conversions in u.k. but stabbing boys until they convert or
raping girls until they convert is too much too beleive.How could a developed country allow this.i thought majority of conversions are happenning due to brainwashing because recently u.k. police too tried to investigate the cases and found no evidence.if the situation is so bad then then sikh organisations should do something.


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## Sworn_Avenger (Aug 3, 2007)

kds1980 said:


> vijaydeep singh ji i too heard of conversions in u.k. but stabbing boys until they convert or
> raping girls until they convert is too much too beleive.How could a developed country allow this.i thought majority of conversions are happenning due to brainwashing because recently u.k. police too tried to investigate the cases and found no evidence.if the situation is so bad then then sikh organisations should do something.


 

There are so many muslims outnumbering the sikhs its crazy, if you want proof, go onto youtube.com look up a gang called PDC, SMS. there from peckham and brixton. look onto website relating to them it might show the kinda stuff they do. As for letting it develop...theres been over 500,000 immigrants in the last 2 years, messing up our country, we are also immigrants but when the sikh community came to england most of the time it was through invitation from the English priminster due to a lack of labour force afta the war, we did not come here just to seek benefits like they are. its crazy the amount of stories you hear.

I do assure you it is happening. about 10 of my freinds have converted sikh and christian. most were willing because if you are muslim, in the rough area you are safe because it is rare to see a muslim rob or beat another muslim out on the street unless there is a personal problem. 

like i said look up to gangs, on youtube or websites or the news lol
you will hear of them, mainly consisting of pakistanis, blacks and middle eastern people. And as i said before, their are a lot of powerful sikhs in the uk "Punjabi Mafia" very powerful very rich. but there minds are on money, business here own welfare theyve moved to the suburbs, they have no time for these incidents. And btw they are targeting all religions, but if you see them in the street and you don't say salaam Ala kum or however the spelling is...yor get messed up.


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## kds1980 (Aug 3, 2007)

dear sworn avenger

i strongly advise you to please stay on this website and tell the truth to other pro muslim sikhs who don't beleive that these types of things are happening in u.k..Earlier i had debates with some sikhs on muslims but they simply refuse to beleive that these types of things are happening.They simply say that it is just a propaganda by sikhs and some of these sikhs themselves are from u.k..as you yourself are from u.k. and you have great knowledge and personal experiance on this subject so please stay on this website and expose the truth
to all members of spn.
                  Thank you
                       kdsingh


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## spnadmin (Aug 3, 2007)

*Even in the uk sikhs are in the firing line, every city/town muslims dominate it, leaving sikh youths feeling threatened apart from a few towns i.e Southall, Gravesend. Even southall these days is becoming more and more muslim. I see sikh boys converting daily to islam because of the pressure around, this is no exaggeration, there are gangs in London whos main ambition is to convert people to islam using severe violence. aka PDC, SMS. The only hope to fight back was shere punjab boys, but they tourned on their own sikh brothers, began extorting smal businesses, they were eventually chased down, half sent to prison half in hiding from the bigger sikh fish, but these people are only into making money, business, proeprty deals, flash cars. they do not care whats happening to their own people on the street.

*Above is the key to what SwornAvenger ji is explaining to us. A culture of criminality where brute force and numbers define values and morals. It is very hard to fight this once it becomes ingrained in a locality. Politicians, police, the public and even those who have made it out of the "hood" do nothing because they don't want to be reminded of the people who are trapped. It could be them, the possibilities are too frightening. It is easier to despise and ignore. The only way to fight this -- and it is a trend everywhere -- is for a few people to be relentless in their love of truth. Here I agree with kds1980 ji.


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## Sworn_Avenger (Aug 6, 2007)

The unition of sikh, christian and hindus cannot fight this problem. Sikh people are money minded, one track mind for either business, or religion (which is the beast way but cannot help the problem.) Not too many hindus in the uk, but where they are they group together in seperate places away from this atrosites, Christians...Western Culture has lowered christians faith...There are heavy riots in Birmingham (West Midlands) Media and Goverment say this is between Gangs of Black and Asian, This is completely false, this war/riots are between muslim blacks and asian Muslims against Christian Blacks and the odd White person. And to my shame, my brother sikhs joined the muslim riots to politically keep the peace between them and the winning side. 

Here i will post some links and information to prove my statements of the extent of force conversion in the U.K's Capital and other major cities.

Small article on the "times online" showing how violence between christian and muslim trouble began according to the media. (but it still points in the same direction, take note of the report of muslim youths attacking people gathering at a church!!!!!)

Man dead as race riot erupts in Birmingham - Times Online

Now i live in London, With relatives in Birmingham, so let me tell you the truth of this story, a young jamaican girl was being forced to convert, when she refused she was skorned as unfaithful and not a "soldier of allah" she was deemed as a ***** so they raped her. Her family was threatened hence the reason she did not report this


Criminal gangs use Islam to intimidate victims | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited

These guys are real sick, PDC, It shows a small paragraph about people getting converted at gunpoint, is this not important why then go on to talk about how muslims i scared beacuse of the 9/11 attacks. This link also shows its cool and you gain street cre and protection to become a muslim. this is from the guardian newspaper.

Adrian Marriot shot five times in the head because he didnt convert

Western Resistance: UK: Muslim Prison Gang Attack "Apostate"

ive got loads more, at work at the moment and not got time. but if more proof is required !! and disbelievers let me know. i am a sworn avenger to expose the **** that happens on these Streets.


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## Sherab (Aug 6, 2007)

I thought being a Sikh meant you were a follower of the Guru, and that Singh means lion... It makes me wonder what the hell is going on with Sikhism in the UK...

thats if I read the article correctly, that Sikhs are teaming up with Muslims in Burningham.


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## Sworn_Avenger (Aug 6, 2007)

Yer, teaming up with the winning side. this isnt the only occasion where they are betraying our values, they've backed up the muslims, yet with the other hand Shere Punjab (Punjabi Gang) are teaming up with the B'N'P (british national party - racist politican scum who funds white supremesist street gangs - combat 18, National Front) apposing the muslims. 

Very Sneaky, but shere punjab dont really represent all punjabi's, however they were part of the birmingham riots which means they helping with one hand but striking them with the other. The ration to muslim and sikh is overwhelming there outnumbering us too much.


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## Sherab (Aug 6, 2007)

Shakyamuni Buddha said that his Dharma would only last 2,500 years - leaving us with around 493 years of Buddha Dharma to remain before it fades away, so Buddhism will not be one of them.

Sikhism, however, and Hinduism are timeless.


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## k s gadh (Aug 7, 2007)

reg which religion will last in their current forum.
 S S Akaal
Sikh religion will last. No other religion can match this religion.  So many philosophers from Europe and Western countries have researched on this religion.  All says  Hats off to theis religion and it followers.   Only this religion from the beginning is showing respect for women with equal status like men..People from allwalks of life can come and pray at gurudawaras. No any restriction,  people will sit in one Pangat for Guru Ka Langar. There is no any ameer or garibe Raja Yaa Rank, Aam adami yaa chor\dakoo \thug.
The followers of this religion daily prayer and  request to the God Sarbat Daa Bhalla.
This religion is really great,  I am not saying because I belong to this religion, No other religion on the earth can match wiht this religion.  Our Guru says KIRT KARO WAND CHHAKKO, SABH NAAL PREM KARO
AVAL ALLAH NOOR UPAYAI KUDRAT KE SABH BANDE , EK NOOR TE SABH JAG UPJAIA KAWAN BHALE KAWAN MANDE.

sAT SRI AKAAL ( bHUL CHUK mAAF KARNI)


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