# Why All Sikhs Are Born With Hair?



## Archived_member2 (Sep 30, 2005)

Satsriakal to all!
This query may interest people of the whole world.

God gave hair to all human beings.

Why Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Sikhs hair again as one of the five Kakaars?

Please express your views.


Balbir Singh


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## truthseeker (Sep 30, 2005)

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!


Dear Balbir Ji,

My understanding of Gurbani and very limited but here is my two cents.
Yes, we are all born with hair BUT many people cut, and/ or dye their hair. This shows disrespect to such a beautiful gift from GOD. Many people also use their hair as a sign of beauty, and that can lead to many other things that are against Sikhi. 
So i think that by Guru ji giving us Kesh as a Kakkar.. he helped us realize that it was such an amazing gift from God.. and that we should respect it.
I hope that this helps
Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!


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## Jasmeet_Singh (Oct 1, 2005)

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa
Waheguru ji ki Fateh

veer ji,

kesh rakhne da matlab hai akal purakh de against na hona.  Sabat surat di sambhal karni. hri Ram de ajkal jehde poster dikhaye jande han clean shaven wale oh sahi nahi han. agar eh poster sahi han ta ram nu maryada purshotam nahi keha ja sakda. jitne vi rishi muni hoye ne hanesha sabat surat hi rahe ne. ithe tak ki raja Janak vi sabat surat hi san. singh nu Guru Gobind Singh Ji ne eh vadmuli daat bakhsis kiti hai. Sheesh war ke sardariya laiya ne. sheesh de dita par baal nahi katan ditte.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 1, 2005)

Gurfateh

In one verse of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which was delivered unto First Master we have the  following thing.

That verse talks anti to  the practices of jains(Sir Kuththe Saitani).

Here Guru talks that hairs are mark of wisdom and Jain's removal of them is foolish thing.


In other faiths also there are positve attitiudes towards hairs but in us das thinks the following.

As in Military we to get issuance of kit which we need to keep ready always to let us have self decipline so could be our five Ks.

It is oour mark to obey Guru overtly also ,It is proff that if We obey in outside so will we do in inside.

If we shave or comb then we will going more for our indivual decoration and we may develp ego of our good look and supriority complex.

Another thing is that due to uncut hairs and beared racial variation due to regions(as per Akalustat Nyare Nyare Deshan Ke Bhes Ko Prabhav) is removed and in appearance also Human race appears as one.No Black,Brown,Yellow or White but all covered with natural hairs.A uniform for uniforming humanity from races.


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## Archived_member2 (Oct 1, 2005)

Satsriakal to all!

Truthseeker Ji!

You wrote "Guru ji giving us Kesh as a Kakkar.. he helped us realize that it was such an amazing gift from God."

May I ask why are many of us fanatic about hair when they have realized the amazing gift from God?

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Jasmeet Singh Ji!

Your post is full of feelings. You wrote "Sheesh war ke sardariya laiya ne. sheesh de dita par baal nahi katan ditte."

We want to keep hair. Why we give up head (sheesh) that has so many hair (baal)?

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Vijaydeep Singh Ji!

You wrote "That verse talks anti to the practices of jains(Sir Kuththe Saitani).Here Guru talks that hairs are mark of wisdom and Jain's removal of them is foolish thing."

I am not sure if the meaning or translation of this Guru's Vaak is done rightly.

It is interesting to know your wish. 

You wrote "Another thing is that due to uncut hairs and beared racial variation due to regions(as per Akalustat Nyare Nyare Deshan Ke Bhes Ko Prabhav) is removed and in appearance also Human race appears as one.No Black,Brown,Yellow or White but all covered with natural hairs.A uniform for uniforming humanity from races."

Do you feel that from God's point of view the world will be more attractive when all are covered with natural hair?


Balbir Singh


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## hpluthera (Oct 3, 2005)

Guru Gobind Singh Ji established the Order Of Khalsa to instill the decipline, valour, Fearless, sacrifice and service.  They were like born again as pure  in uniform and vow to die for others.  It was the UN Force the Guru established in 1699.   Every one is born with brain some use it some do not and still some are given "Akl" again by Guru.  Similarly we are born with muscles and in order to enhance their use we must do some exercise.  Khalsa not only keep unshorn hair but care them as a gift of Guru. It is used as a Blessing and not a wastefull extention in body. Kesh are used as energy source provided Khalsa has a living of Khalsa not symbols.
"ROM ROM Jape Naam"
Khalsa - kare nit jang with five vices.
HP Luthera




			
				Balbir Singh said:
			
		

> Satsriakal to all!
> This query may interest people of the whole world.
> 
> God gave hair to all human beings.
> ...


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## vijaydeep Singh (Oct 4, 2005)

Gurfateh

Respected Balbeer Singh Ji,

Guru did oppose the removal of hairs by Jains.

Likewise due to hairs given to us by nature ie manifestation of God our individual beauty of face which is anyway temprary but tempting for ego or attacjement ie Ahankar or Moh is concealed and these two vices are nipped in the bud.


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## hpluthera (Dec 5, 2005)

Dear Friend
Guru Gobind Singh ji raised a spiritual Army to fight for moral good.  Wh joined the Army? poor Dalits not very rich.  What was the budget?
So organic living without a penny to uniform Khalsa perfect id for a dead soldier in the Battle field. 

Guru did not give the Hair but bless the Khalsa to keep the unshorn Hair.
Unlike muslim soldiesr who also had long beard but they did cut hair from mustaches and some other areas so Khalsa was totally not to take out any "Rom" hair.
In order to join the order of Khalsa One has to prepare as prequalifications:
  To die for others good.

It was a perfect Army ritual:

Uniform Five K's

Baptise and take on oath to abide by 
the code of conduct and Ethics.


Battle cry - Jaikara

Descipiline - Early rise Naam Japna to keep high spirits and spiritual upliftment.

So Guru Gave Amrit not hair but The Amrit was given with a condition to take vows to keep the hair as part of uniform of Five K's and follow the code and ethics.

Order of Khalsa has great validity in the modren world disorder.  
Khalsa World Peace Force 
as part of UN world Peace keeping force is the best suited job for today's Khalsa of Guru Gobind Singh's.

Khlasa institution and nation should request the UNO and the world countries to give them an oppurtunity to serve for the world peace.  It will elevate the Khalsa image and uphold the cause for which the Guru Granted the privilege of bestowing the gift of Khalsahood. 

HP Luthera





			
				Balbir Singh said:
			
		

> Satsriakal to all!
> This query may interest people of the whole world.
> 
> God gave hair to all human beings.
> ...


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## drkhalsa (Dec 5, 2005)

> Khlasa institution and nation should request the UNO and the world countries to give them an oppurtunity to serve for the world peace. It will elevate the Khalsa image and uphold the cause for which the Guru Granted the privilege of bestowing the gift of Khalsahood.


 
excellent suggestion but I dont know how we can approach it but definately it will be beneficial for both World and Khalsa

Jatinder Singh


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## Amarpal (Dec 6, 2005)

Dear Khalsa Ji,

We are all born with hair. Guru Sahib did not give us hair again. Guru Sahib only asked us to keep them as they grow. True he made this practice mandatory for we Sikhs to give us a unique identity and inclued 'Kesh' in five Kakars. 

This act is equivalent to fencing around any Graden. This we do to protect the Garden from unwanted intrusions. Guru Sahib wanted to keep the young nursery of 'The Panth' to be demarcated (unique identity), within which the values and the beliefs of Sikhi can flurish and percolate deep in the beings of all of us, without getting mixed up with those practices which our ten Guru had worked so hard to remove from Sikh way of life. He did not want Sikhi to get diluted in any way.

These are my views.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh


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## Archived_member2 (Dec 6, 2005)

Satsriakal to all and HP Luthera Ji!
Thanks for your post.

It shows that you have many imaginations and desires about Sikhism.

You wrote "So Guru Gave Amrit not hair but The Amrit was given with a condition to take vows to keep the hair as part of uniform of Five K's and follow the code and ethics."

Have I understood you correctly? Guru Gobind Singh Ji first gave Amrit to first Punj Pyaraas with a condition to take vows to keep hair as part of uniform of five K's and follow the code and ethics. And afterwards He asked Punj Pyaraas for their head.
Please provide a reference from the Guru if possible. I will be grateful.

One of your imaginations is "Order of Khalsa has great validity in the modren world disorder."

The disorder of the world, from a Jeev's point of view, is that the opposition exists. Demons exist also during the period of Rama, Krishna and our Gurus.
More questions are arising. Do we live duality in the same way as God? Was not the order of Khalsa (Truth of purity) always needed?

You have expressed a wish "Khalsa World Peace Force as part of UN world Peace keeping force is the best suited job for today's Khalsa of Guru Gobind Singh's."

Peace forces of the UN are needed and sent to places where wars take place and the opposite parties cannot find a solution. These world peace forces of the UN have not learnt to sweep the root cause of fights (duality).

I feel Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Khalsa is above the mandate of the peace forces of the UN. A Khalsa gets rid of the cause of the war namely duality by wearing Kakaars and doing JAP.

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Satsriakal Veer Amarpal Singh Ji!

You wrote "We are all born with hair."

This is right. We are all born with hair. But why all are born with hair? Please say something about this.

You continued with "Guru Sahib did not give us hair again. Guru Sahib only asked us to keep them as they grow."

I always heard from elders that Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave five Kakaars to Sikhs. I never heard that Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave four Kakaars to Sikhs. And He asked Sikhs to keep the fifth Kakaar, Kes (hair), as those grow. 

In my view, we should accept the Guru's statement even when we do not understand it. But we should not change it.


Balbir Singh


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## Amarpal (Dec 7, 2005)

Dear balbir Singh Ji,

I share what I know.

The brain works best when the ambient is at 18 deg. centigrade. when the temperature rises above 28 deg C, it starts making mistakes. Hair on the head act as insulation it tries to maintain the temperature. You see the hairs of people of africa are not similar to ours; they donot need that thick insulation.

I have no scientic basis for hair on the face of the men and not on women.

You ahve qouted only part of my statement from my post. You qouted that I have said:

"Guru Sahib did not give us hair again. Guru Sahib only asked us to keep them as they grow."

This part of my post was:

We are all born with hair. Guru Sahib did not give us hair again. Guru Sahib only asked us to keep them as they grow. True he made this practice mandatory for we Sikhs to give us a unique identity and inclued 'Kesh' in five Kakars. 



you said:

'He asked Sikhs to keep the fifth Kakaar, Kes (hair), as they grow. '

When I said Guru Sahib did not give us hair, I meant that the hairs were part of human being even before Guru Sahib included them as Kakars and made the natural growth of Kesh mandatory for we Sikhs. I never said that they are not part of Kakars that Guru Sahib gave us.

I do not see much difference between what you had said and what I have said. I do not understand why you had to say that :

"In my view, we should accept the Guru's statement even when we do not understand it. But we should not change it."

I have changed nothing.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 8, 2005)

Gurfateh

Das just wants to add that as per Bijai mukt Sakhi 10 when hairs were made as must to Sikh it was said as per that book that this was code of Puratan Hindus ie forefathers of Hindus.

That means that acinet Aryans also had uncut hairs and Jews too were thier branch only.

So Guru did restored something which was missing due to influnce of Nastik or non belivers faiths like Jains and budhists.

Das can say one thing that after keeping hair das has gained many much much larger amount of knowledge.

Perhpas time which was spent in shaving and cutting is saved but jokes aside mind becomes more oriented towards world outside then just thinking os self or ego.

As we comb or try to shave to look beutifull often we get entanglemesnt of supeiority complex and more ego and les devotion to serve the world.


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## Archived_member2 (Dec 8, 2005)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

God gives birth to all with hair.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Sikhs again hair as one of the Kakaars.

I feel this is true.

--------------

Please do not expect a session of thirty-one days of one and a half hour each every day.

You want to know my views about this. May God bless you with few words.

Please visit the site 

http://www.saysatsriakal.com

And click the topic 'Spirituality of Hair'.


Love.


Balbir Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 9, 2005)

Gurfateh

Very nice site  Blabeer Singh Ji,

Das would like that there could be link to that site for spn and vice-versa.

Akal Bless.


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## FireStorm (Dec 11, 2005)

Dear Balbir Singh Ji, 

Even as I am writing this response to your question, I am listening to the audio on your website. 

The central theme of the sikh religion is to follow the Hukam of Waheguru. Hair have been a part of sikhi ever since Guru Nanak Dev Ji, who made the sikhs realise that hair has been given by God, is a Hukam of God and needs to be kep intact. 

In fact the complete concept of Amrit right and the 5 K's stems from the concept of Hukam, and right from the day one, all this was highlighted. 

You may find the following post interesting.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 

Ang 360 of 1430 

jay saktaa saktay ka-o maaray taa man ros na
ho-ee. ||1|| rahaa-o. 

If some powerful man strikes out against another
man, then no one feels any grief in their mind.
||1||Pause|| 

saktaa seehu maaray pai vagai khasmai saa
pursaa-ee. 

But if a powerful tiger attacks a flock of sheep
and kills them, then its master must answer for
it. 

I think, in this shabad lies a very powerful
meaning and a very potent answer to a section of
people who question and tend to think that the
path of Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh were
different. 

These two tuks of the shabad make it more clear
(to my mind), why Guru Nanak uttered and wrote
this shabad. 

I have one word answer - Khalsa. 

This shabad gives us in one line why the concept
of Khalsa is so important and it also it explains
that this concept was given by none other than
God to Guru Nanak. 

The Master of the sheep has spoken. He never
wanted his sheep to be 'sheep'. He wants them to
be tigers, capabale of defending themselves from
opressors. He wants that these sheeps be able to
stand on their own two feet and not look at
'Tantar' and 'mantar'. He wants his 'sheep' to be
able to use their Hands and Feet - the real
Tantars and Mantars that God has endowed them.  

If we go back, the way the concept of the Khalsa
lifted the morale of the downtrodden, brought
them to same level, and made them so able that
they were able to fight with the Mughal, Turk,
Turrani and Irani invaders. It infused a spirit
into them, unmatched in the history of mankind. 

Please note that (to me), this shabad explains
that right from the beginning Guru Nanak wanted
his followers to be capable of raising voice
against oppression and becoming capable of
defending themselves if so be the need. 

Guru Nanak had two choices - He could have chosen
to make his followers armed in the first go or he
could have taken the path of being present
through 10 forms for a long time and complete his
job. The job was a tough one, as the people of
the time were in extremely low spirits and
indulged in Karam Kaands. The job  required that
first the Godly qualities be infused into this
sagging spirit of mankind. It required that the
spirit and the internals be made so strong that
when the time came to represent or exert these
externally, the spirit wouldnt falter. Hence the
job required a long duration, something could not
be completed in one single life cycle. 

The Saint was protected by the external soldier.
but since both are different entities, the link
was weak. Guru Nanak rolled both into one and
made the bond unbreakable. 

The saint no longer depended upopn the soldier
for protection and the soldier would no longer be
weak or turn oppressor as the saint would provide
him strength/prevent him from turning oppressor
respectively. 

This model to be implemented was not for some
jungle residing sadhus, rather for Grahistis -
the common people. 

Please remember that the sikh panth was created
by the will of God and God does not make mistake.


Hence we see the progression of the sikhs from
one Guru to the second Guru. We see that the
Gurus make themselves into models and present
before the sikhs, what they have to strive to be.


We see that the Gurus present the sikhs with
subtle spirtual challenges and tests. 

Slowly and steadily the spirit was strengthened
and then the sixth master performed an initial
test to determine, how this inner spirit had
helped the external body transform - vis.
bravery. 

He checked whether the sheep were now able to
stand up to the tigers. 

The internal and external concepts was further
strengthened by the later Gurus and given a
formal shape by Guru Nanak in his tenth form. 

This in my view is why Guru Nanak Ji, recorded
this Shabad in Guru Granth Sahib  NOT to lay the
blame on God BUT

 1 . to raise a voice against oppression and to
set the foundation of Khalsa 

2. To highlight the question, for which the
answer of the Master was Khalsa, always had been
and always would be - but only Guru Nanak Ji
recognised this

3. To clarify his mission of making tigers
(saint/soldiers) out of sheep


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## kharkoo4life (Dec 12, 2005)

Fateh,

Much has been written about the importance of hair.  Some say it holds physiological importance, others argue that it elevates our mental processing; others that it insulates our brains and still others argue that it acts directly to enhance our spirituality.  And since for a Sikh, keeping his kes is mandatory we have added even further special meanings to hair.  In regards to this I would like to highlight some of the more common arguments people give about the importance of hair and share my views on those.

*"Hair is blessing of God"*
We accept God as the Creator of this Universe and ALL CREATION that resides within it.  Amongst these creations man is regarded as one of the most ingenious and magnificent of creations.  For it is man alone who has the capacity and unique privilege of Realization of his Creator.  Now the human body is an amazing piece of machinery and we are far far away from having full knowledge of its structure and functioning and most likely may never ever fully comprehend.  God is not so careless and foolish to create features on our body which have no useful function.  As to what that function is, for certain organs/tissues of our body we have gained some insight about those functions but others we still do not fully know.  Even medicinal science today shows that hair serves many advantageous functions on our body.  Now as to why we have so much on our head or face (men) we can argue all day but at some point we must humbly admit that God wouldn’t keep carelessly putting hair on every mans head since beginning of mans existence if it did not serve some useful purpose.  What that actual purpose is only God fully knows.  Even if we try we will never have full knowledge or understanding of Gods reasoning.  Instead as Sikhs we are to humbly accept His Will as being right.

*"Hair is a Gift of the Guru"*
Some say the Kes is a gift from our Guru and we should accept it as such.  There is nothing wrong in saying that hair is 'gift' from our guru, the problem only arises if we take it to the next step and say the Guru "gave" us this hair.  The guru never 'gave' the Sikh anything.  Anything that a Sikh has, was merely 'offered' as a gift of love by the guru.  And that is why the Panj Kakaars are not mere physical symbols but rather are much more meaningful and priceless gifts of pyaar offered to us by our Guru.  And like any gift only the giver of that gift knows the true value of it.  Only the giver of that gift can appreciate how important and meaningful that gift truly is.  The receiver can merely acknowledge that show of love and decide whether he wishes to accept or reject that gift.  We see common place today when someone loses an old watch, piece of jewelry or family heirloom the difficulty and efforts they go through to try and reclaim or find it.  If someone suggests to them just forget about it, it was just a pen or watch and u can get another one the person who lost it will reply no, to u it may be just a 2 dollar pen but to me its value is priceless. Why?  Cruz it was a gift of love given by some friend or family member.  We cling to these other worlds gifts so tightly so why the problem in showing the same love to the gifts our guru has given to us?

*"Hair is a sign of a Sikh"*
  It is common place to hear that keeping unshorn hair is the nishani of a Sikh.  That having a joora and lumbee dhari is nishani of a Sikh.  Such thinking is COMPLETELY WRONG!  In order to understand this one must first understand the philosophy of Sikhi.  Being a Sikh is not a birth right nor is it attained by merely keeping ones hair uncut.  It is a process and like any process there are stages one goes through.

*1st stage = Man (ma-nukh) *
We are all born as humans.  A being with no name and no faith.  Thus at birth we come into this world in the exact same state as any other person.  When we hear the word kesadhari we often equate it with meaning a Sikh, and some take it even further and classify it as a particular 'type' of Sikh.  The truth is that both meanings are wrong.  Being kesadhari is not synonymous with being a Sikh or being Khalsa.  In fact kes are not the sign of any religion for that matter.  Kes are simply the sign of man, and that too from birth.  That is why when we say that kes are the nishani of Sikh we do not understand what these kes signify.  If they were the sign of any particular faith (e.g. Sikh) then followers of all other religions would simply have to pray before the respective Lord (Ram, Alah, God) that, "Oh Dear Lord, since hair are only the sign of a Sikh please stop giving me or my kids any more hair."  And if after all these humble pleas before God their hair still keeps growing then why would any truly religious God-loving person keep doing a direct confrontation with God and keep opposing His Will?  Maybe then they will realize that hair has more meaning then just being a ‘nishani’ of a sikh and is actually the nishani of every insaan.

*2nd stage = Sikh*
After one enters the first stage of being a kesadhari (manukh) the next step for one who wishes to follow Sikhi is to become a Sikh.  A Sikh is the student of the Guru.  And like any other student their progress and advancement is contingent on them learning.  Simply put, a Sikh is one who strives for sikhaya (learning).  An ordinary student studies the subject matter specific to their degree program so what subject matter does a Sikh study? Gurmat, another words the teachings of the guru as bestowed on us through Sri Guru Granth Sahib.  Whereas the first stage is defined by completely accepting the gifts God has given to us with love (i.e. being a kesadhari) the second stage is defined by the person now accepting all the gifts our guru has given to us with an equal love.  This is signified by the individual making honest, diligent efforts and gaining a stronger insight and understanding about gurmat.  Like an ordinary school where progress of the student is symbolized by moving up to the next grade, in the school of sikhi progress of the student (Sikh) is seen by that individual moving up the spiritual ladder -- i.e. they begin to learn how to control and subdue the wandering mind.  This is seen by the gradual change in the thoughts, words and actions of that individual such that with each passing day that individual begins to lead a life resembling more and more like that of his teachers (Guru).

*3rd stage = Singh/Kaur*
This is the final stage for one who enters the school of Sikhi.  This stage is reached when one incorporates in themselves the exact same virtues, gunn, as those possessed by the Guru and God.  This person now bears no enmity, anger, or hatred for anyone.  He feels nothing but unconditional Love and tolerance for all those around him.  This person has now become truly 'pure' both inside and out and is qualified to graduate from the school of Sikhi and become a full fledged member of the Khalsa.  Symbolically this initiation is signified by the individual partaking in the khandey dhi pahul (amrit ceremony).  

Unfortunately, the sad thing in today’s world is that not only have we confused and mixed up these 3 stages but we have also overlooked the importance and necessity of moving thru these stages in a gradual step-wise manner.  In ordinary schooling if one wishes to attain any degree they have to undergo a specific step-wise process.  For instance, in the case of becoming a professional (in any field) one first has to accept the importance and value of schooling and hone their studying skills (1st stage).  IF they neglect the value of schooling and ignore it then any further progress in their academic career will become impossible.  Once they've done this the person then makes their mind as to which field they would like to enter and pursue a career in.  This is analogous to a person choosing which faith they would like to follow.  

If the person chooses to pursue medicine, then they do the necessary pre-requisites and gain entrance into that program.  Once in the school of medicine they must actively learn new material every day and gain a stronger knowledge and understanding of all the theoretical concepts (book smarts) of that field.  At the same time as they are gaining these book smarts they must actively demonstrate and implement this knowledge into practical form when they start their rotations in the hospitals.  This entire learning process occurs once they’ve entered this 2nd stage.  When the person has mastered all the material, and has both that knowledge base in their mind and proficiency in practice they are now qualified to attain the degree from that school.  Once they get this degree, they become full members of the Medical Profession. (3rd stage).

We stringently follow this process with all other worldly pursuits but how ironic is it when it comes to Sikhi we feel this process is not necessary?  Is the value of Sikhi in our eyes so low that it falls even below ordinary scholarly pursuits?  Is progress in our spiritual career not as important as progress in our academic/working careers?  Yet we see this is exactly the mentality the majority of people apply to the pursuit of Sikhi.  Every day we hear the cries and urges of granthis, parcharaks to go take amrit, become part of the khalsa panth.  And what is even more disheartening is that these same granthis eagerly give these new recruits the degree of Khalsa as if handing out candy to kids on Halloween.  Where has the whole idea that Sikhi is a life long learning process vanished to?  Why have we devalued this schooling process into a mere overnight course?  There is nothing wrong with people being eager and devoted to becoming members of the Khalsa.  But they should not be rushed into the final stages by emotional or physical pressure.  And if the individual themselves wishes to jump and go straight after the degree then it should be stressed by those around that person that this enthusiasm is great but it more important that the person actually first takes time to read gurbani, read Sikh history and understand the basic concepts of gurmat.  Once they attain this strong base and foundation of the fundamentals of Sikhi then by all means they should be encouraged to partake in amrit ceremony.  Not only will such a person be better able to withstand sinister attacks of falsehood/bramnical influence on their faith and not be misled but they will also remain strong in their faith and commitment to the Khalsa Panth and be less likely to waiver from it.  

Why else such the startling disparity of the average so called member of khalsa today and those during the time of Guru Gobind Singh?  During that time not a single person was willing to give up his faith or compromise even the smallest part of his faith even if it meant death, yet today we see fully "initiated" members of khalsa panth openly engaging in anti-gurmat acts of drinking, drugs, adultery, lying, stealing, killing jus for the mere sake of momentary pleasure.  This lack of a foundation and proper basic schooling in sikhi is why so many people one day are jumping to take amrit and within the span of a few months or years they abandon their faith and go completely wayward.

Anyway, the topic has gone slightly astray so to stress the key points again, unshorn hair is not the sign of any faith and that includes Sikhism.  Hair was not given to us by our guru.  The guru merely taught us that if we wish to become one with God, we should first be ready to embrace and accept His Will.  And the first stage of accepting His Will is to accept and love the manner in which He created us.  Everything He has given us belongs to Him so we should accept it with love and take care of it (not fight against it and reject it)

mY bMdw bY KrIdu scu swihbu myrw ]
_I am Your purchased slave, O True Lord Master._
jIau ipMfu sBu iqs dw sBu ikCu hY qyrw ]1]
_My soul and body, and all of this, everything is Yours._


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## Archived_member2 (Dec 13, 2005)

Satsriakal to all!

Is Sikhi a kind of learning at school?

Does the practice of Sikhi begin after receiving a degree or certificate?

Since when Sikhi has become a Dhandhaaa (profession)?

Please open your treasure of knowledge?



Balbir Singh


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## kharkoo4life (Dec 15, 2005)

Balbir Singh said:
			
		

> Satsriakal to all!
> 
> Is Sikhi a kind of learning at school?
> 
> ...


 

Fateh,

Thank u brother for ur reply.  I shall try and answer each of ur questions.

1) When i say sikhi is a type of schooling in no way am i trying to compare it or say it is of the same level as ordinary everyday schooling.  That schooling is also important for it helps in particular specific areas (eg. math, science, reading, writing) but the school of sikhi deals with something much more imporant.  The subject of spirituality.  I use the example that sikhi is a form of schooling because a Sikh is a Sikh (student) only by the fact that he strives to attain sikhaya (learning) from his true guru (teacher).

sqsMgiq siqgur ctswl hY ijqu hir gux isKw ]
_The Sat Sangat, the True Congregation of the True Guru, is the school of the soul, where the Glorious Virtues of the Lord are studied._
Dnu DMnu su rsnw DMnu kr DMnu su pwDw siqgurU ijqu imil hir lyKw ilKw ]8]
_Blessed, blessed is the tongue, blessed is the hand, and blessed is the Teacher, the True Guru; meeting Him, the Account of the Lord is written_

This example of considering sikhi a type of school is not my own, but has been used in gurbani elsewhere as well.  

gurmuK drsn dyKxw iCAdrsx prsx n srcY]
_Gurmukhs behold the Guru's school and put no faith in six Schools (of Indian tradition)._

The average person spends 12-20 years of formal schooling attaining academic knowlege but how much time do we spend in the school of gurmat studying and learning gurbani?  My attempt was merely to show the gross disparity in our everyday lives between our focus on studying gurbani vs. ordinary material.

2) The practice of Sikhi does not begin with the attainment of some ordinary certificate or degree.  The practice of Sikhi begins the day we begin to question the purpose of our lives.  The day we begin to question who is god and how can we meet him. The day we begin to try and make efforts to become better human beings and make this world a more loving, tolerant place is the day the practice of Sikhi begins.

Again please do not take the reference to degree literally.  I used it only to highlight how much effort and time we put towards other pursuits, how much respect and admiration we hold to everday academic achieviements yet regard the initiation into Khalsa as something so ordinary that people are encouraged, if not pressured, in droves to go head first into it.  I am not trying to discourage ppl from taking khande dhi pahul or trying to belittle the value of khalsa rather i want us to value it more.  I want everyone to realize that this is not jus simple 2 hour ceremony n tada we've magically become pure.  No, our efforts on this path shud begin long before we reach this stage.

The pursuit for truth, which is the primary objective of a Sikh, should be happening all the time.  LIke in the academic world our schooling doesnt begin only when we reach a degree, n nor does it end when we receive that degree.  So long as the desire to learn more exists then our academic learning will continue.  In fact, in most medical professions thisl ife long learning is mandatory in the form of continued education workshops and seminars.  Likewise the pursuit of truth is also described by the guru as a type of schooling.  This whole world is the creation of God and the Creator resides within it everywhere.  And the Creator Himself is the embodiment of the Truth.  Thus pursuit of Truth, (i.e. pursuit of God) is occuring all the time all around us.

Awpy cwtswl Awip hY pwDw Awpy cwtVy pVx kau Awxy ]
_He Himself is the school, He Himself is the teacher, and He Himself brings the students to be taught.
_ 
This whole world is described as a big 'school' where the Creator is teaching his Creation (including humans).  So do not take this refernce to schooling harshly.


3) Again i think u may be taking my references too literally.  I am not equating Sikhi with any profession.  I use examples only to help drive home points.  Sikhi is not an overnight change.  It is a lifetime pursuit.  Just as when we get a job we dont all of a sudden jus sit at home or only go to work when we feel like it.  We continue with it our whole lives.  Similarly Sikhi doesnt stop simply with doing paath, or taking amrit.  It continues our whole lives.

With regards to the example of Sikhi using ordinary jobs, this approach has been used ample times by the guru as well.  He uses references of many common occupations, eg, farming, cobblestones, weaver etc to explain how Sikhi should become ingrained as an iseparable part of our life and not just treated as a parttime leisurely pursuit.

I hope this clears up any misinformation on my part.  

Sincerely.


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## Archived_member2 (Dec 16, 2005)

Satsriakal to all and Kharkoo4life Ji!
Thanks for the great references from Gurbani.

The word 'chatsaal' comes once in Gurbani.
sqsMgiq siqgur ctswl hY ijqu hir gux isKw ]
"satsangat satgur chatsaal hai jit hari gun sikhaa." SGGS page 1316-7
The true company of Sat Guru is the school where virtues of Hari are learned.

The word school (chatsaal) could be misunderstood easily when explained your way ". . . but it more important that the person actually first takes time to read gurbani, read Sikh history and understand the basic concepts of gurmat. Once they attain this strong base and foundation of the fundamentals of Sikhi then by all means they should be encouraged to partake in amrit ceremony."

The impression was raised here, in my view, that visiting a missionary school is like visiting the Sat Guru.

It is appreciable to mention quotes from Gurbani with Ang.

I could not find this quotation in Gurbani.
gurmuK drsn dyKxw iCAdrsx prsx n srcY]
Gurmukhs behold the Guru's school and put no faith in six Schools (of Indian tradition).
Please cite where our Gurus have mentioned this and which word you have translated here Guru's school.

You wrote further "The average person spends 12-20 years of formal schooling attaining academic knowlege but how much time do we spend in the school of gurmat studying and learning gurbani? My attempt was merely to show the gross disparity in our everyday lives between our focus on studying gurbani vs. ordinary material."

Please provide a reference where our Gurus have asked us to study Gurbani and Gurmat. I will be grateful.

--------------

You started explaining the second point with these words "The practice of Sikhi does not begin with the attainment of some ordinary certificate or degree. The practice of Sikhi begins the day we begin to question the purpose of our lives. The day we begin to question who is god and how can we meet him. The day we begin to try and make efforts to become better human beings and make this world a more loving, tolerant place is the day the practice of Sikhi begins."

Does Sikhi begins with the attainment of some special certificate or degree?

Is it true that the practice of Sikhi begins the day we begin to question the purpose of our lives, to question who is God and how can we meet him, to try and make efforts to become better human beings and make this world more loving, tolerant place?

Please refer one Vaak from Gurbani to support your statement.

You also wrote "This whole world is the creation of God and the Creator resides within it everywhere. And the Creator Himself is the embodiment of the Truth. Thus pursuit of Truth, (i.e. pursuit of God) is occuring all the time all around us."

I request you to explain why the pursuit of Truth (God) is occurring all the time all around us when HE resides within it everywhere?

You referred a wonderful Vaak from Guru Amardas Ji.
Awpy cwtswl Awip hY pwDw Awpy cwtVy pVx kau Awxy 
aapay chaatsaal aap hai paaDhaa aapay chaatrhay parhan ka-o aanay. SGGS page 552-18
He Himself is the school, He Himself is the teacher, He Himself is the student, who comes to be taught.

May I ask if God as school is the same as the schools we build? 

--------------

In your third point you wrote ". . . Sikhi doesnt stop simply with doing paath, or taking amrit. It continues our whole lives."

I feel Sikhi doesn't start simply with doing Paath, or taking Amrit. 

Sikhi starts by receiving JAP as Gurprasaad from the Sat Guru. It continues our whole lives.

My hearty thanks are to you for giving me and many your company in this Satsang.

Love.


Balbir Singh


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## kharkoo4life (Dec 16, 2005)

Fateh,

Again, many thanks for ur comments and questions. I am by no means an expert on gurbani so if i have made any mistakes i welcome any corrections and apologize for mistakes on my part. 

I can understand your concern regarding misinterpreting the meaning of 'chaatsaal' but i do not think such is the case with my example. U quoted me as saying:



> The word school (chatsaal) could be misunderstood easily when explained your way ". . . but it more important that the person actually first takes time to read gurbani, read Sikh history and understand the basic concepts of gurmat. Once they attain this strong base and foundation of the fundamentals of Sikhi then by all means they should be encouraged to partake in amrit ceremony."


 
However, u must read those lines in the context of the entire paragraph i wrote them in:

"Where has the whole idea that Sikhi is a life long learning process vanished to? Why have we devalued this schooling process into a mere overnight course? There is nothing wrong with people being eager and devoted to becoming members of the Khalsa. But they should not be rushed into the final stages by emotional or physical pressure. And if the individual themselves wishes to jump and go straight after the degree then it should be stressed by those around that person that this enthusiasm is great but it more important that the person actually first takes time to read gurbani, read Sikh history and understand the basic concepts of gurmat. Once they attain this strong base and foundation of the fundamentals of Sikhi then by all means they should be encouraged to partake in amrit ceremony. Not only will such a person be better able to withstand sinister attacks of falsehood/bramnical influence on their faith and not be misled but they will also remain strong in their faith and commitment to the Khalsa Panth and be less likely to waiver from it."

You see, my analogy of degree and school was not meant to be taken literally. It was only to highlight how the present thinking towards Sikhi has been relegated to simply adorning the panj kakaar n reciting bani repeatedly. But the real 'degree' of becoming a sikh involves more than just this. It involves actual life-long study, understanding and practice of gurbani. I do agree with u though that without the gurbani reference in original post one may have false impression that i was talking of ordinary schooling. But hopefully that impression is erased when i clarified my intention in subsquent post wiht gurbani quotation.

--------
with regards to the quote: 
gurmuK drsn dyKxw iCAdrsx prsx n srcY
i apologize for it was a refernce from Bhai Gurdas Ji dhi vaaran (page 5) and not sri guru granth sahib. Sorry for the confusion. With regards to the translation of this into english, im sure u realize that making simple direct word for word translation of bani into enlgish doesnt always work well. Other than to provide a rather long n exhuastive explanation of the word's meaning in english sometimes we are compelled to use a word wtih close as meaning as possible to keep the translation short n readable.

'Darshan' in gurbani does not simply mean to see or look. It also refers to philosophy and the contemplation of that philosophy. We read elsewhere in gurbani (p.224)

drsnu dyiK BeI miq pUrI ]
_Beholding the blessed vision of his darshan, my understanding has become perfect._

Obviously ones thinking (mut) does not change or become perfect merely by looking at something, even if it is bani. It comes only by analysing and trying to understand that thing. And this is what schools serve as. Place to carry out analysis to broaden our understanding. And it is in this light in the previous quote above that the 'darshan' of gurmat philosophy is praised over 'darshan' of traditional indian philosophy. If we call this schools of thought vs philosophy it is only a minor technicality of variable lexicon -- the central meaning remains the same.

----
with regards to where the guru has asked us to study gurbani/gurmat examples of this are endless in SGGS. In fact, this relates nicely with the previous mention of 'darshan' because we oftne equate having physical darshan of guru ji as being the cure of our mental ailments. But mere physical darshan alone are given absolute zero importance in gurbani. Since our guru is the shabad, this mean even simply looking at or reading gurbani from the saroop of guru granth sahib alone is valueless (for in todays world this is infact our physical 'darshan' of guru ji)

siqgur no sBu ko vyKdw jyqw jgqu sMswru ]
_All the living beings of the world behold the True Guru._
ifTY mukiq n hoveI ijcru sbid n kry vIcwru ]
_One is not liberated by merely seeing Him, unless one contemplates the Word of His Shabad. (.p594)_

Thus we see here the key goal for a sikh is not merely to see the guru (i.e. read gurbani) but infact to contemplate it (do vichaar on it). And how does someone contemplate something? By repeating it in their head or saying it again n again? No. By analysing it, reflecting on its meanings and trying to figure out how that message of the shabad relates to his own life and incorporating it into his life. This is called vichaar.

This instruction for a sikh to study gurbani (do vichaar on it) is given elsewhere as well

iekw bwxI ieku guru ieko sbdu vIcwir ]
_There is One Bani; there is One Guru; there is one Shabad to contemplate. (p.646)_

sbid sUr jug cwry AauDU bwxI Bgiq vIcwrI ]23]
_Contemplating the Shabad, you shall be a hero throughout the four ages, O hermit; contemplate the Word of the Guru's Bani in devotion. (p.908)_

bwxI ibrlau bIcwrsI jy ko gurmuiK hoie ]
_How rare are those who contemplate the Word of the Guru's Bani; they become Gurmukh. (p.935)_


This is why gurbani is so valuable. It is not merely something to be sung and heard or read without reflection. The true creative value of gurbani in transforming a persons life lies in the person understanding the meaning of that bani, and to understand something properly we must study it! That is why the guru tells us to study and contemplate gurbani again n again.

nwau pVIAY nwau buJIAY gurmqI vIcwrw ]
_So read the Name, and realize the Name, and contemplate the Guru's Teachings. (p.140)_

Im sure u are certainly familiar with one of the most famous of instructions on this subject given to us by guru nanak himself:

ividAw vIcwrI qW praupkwrI ]
_Contemplate and reflect upon knowledge, and you will become a benefactor to others. (p.356)_

Now what kind of knowledge would guru ji be talking of here? Ordinary every day schooling or the schooling of gurbani? It is only when we reflect and understand gurbani ourselves that we can use it to help others as well.

------

The pursuit of (truth) God occurs all around us because we as man do not realize God is omnipresent. If we each realized and felt this then we would not have to make any efforts to realize him. yet the truth is most of the world is making efforts daily to realize (find) God. When i say pursuit of truth, it means people are pursuing ways to find Him, to become one with Him. It is our own limited egocentrical human thinking that we fail to realize God is all around us, and within us. But this question of how to meet god (ie. pursuit of God/truth) is an age old question. And it is this question, in the pursuit of truth, that Guru Nanak begins Jap Ji sahib in:

ikv sicAwrw hoeIAY ikv kUVY qutY pwil ]
_So how can you become truthful? And how can the veil of illusion/falsehood be torn away?_


This one line is so deep and contains the essence of the goal of a sikh that it answers ur other question as well. As to when i made a refernce sikhi begins with the day we begin asking the questions as to what is the purpose of our life? and who is god? and how do we meet him?. Well meeting god is meeting Truth. For god as i said is the embodiment of truth. Why else do we seek to become 'pure' and true? To meet god. That is why the first question raised by guru nanak in jap ji sahib (and for that matter entire of guru granth sahib) is the above line. When we ask this question, we are taking the first step on the path of sikhi. The rest of guru granth sahib is an extension and description of that path, a means to help us walk down that path.

_-----_

With regards to God and mention of him as the ultimate school, again the gurus use an analogy. Obviously God is not the same school as you and i study at. God cannot be contained in such a small limited structure. God exists everywhere. He is the supreme Teacher, his clasroom is the entire universe, and his studetns are the entire creation.

Much thanx for all ur input.

Rab Rakha


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## Archived_member2 (Dec 17, 2005)

Satsriakal to all and Kharkoo4life Ji!
Thanks for enhancing the Satsang.

You wrote " . . . sometimes we are compelled to use a word wtih close as meaning as possible to keep the translation 
short n readable."

In my view, this situation arises only when we don't understand the original sentence.

My understanding for Bhai Gurdas Ji's Vaak "gurmuK drsn dyKxw iCAdrsx prsx n srcY" is this.
The vision of Guru's face is watching (knowing) six philosophies, that joy is not getting satisfied.

--------------

From your point of view, studying Gurbani is doing veechaar (contemplate) on it.

In my view, this is not correct.

You referred great Vaaks from Gurbani. One of those is iekw bwxI ieku guru ieko sbdu vIcwir ] (page 646)

Would you please explain what one Baanee, one Guru and one Shabad means? Is this one complete Sri Guru Granth Sahib 
Ji, one Baanee (for example Sukhmanee Sahib), one Vaak (sentence) or one Shabad (word) of this?



Balbir Singh


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