# Near Death Experiences



## Abneet (May 9, 2013)

Every has read atleast one testimony about near-death experiences. 

But why does every person from different religion see something different.

Christians see the light of Jesus Christ apparently, and Muslims see light of Allah.

From my view no one has the right answer since they haven't died fully yet.

What are your guys take on this?


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## akiva (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



Abneet said:


> But why does every person from different religion see something different.



Abneet Ji

They *don't* see/experience different things -- they all see "a light" etc.

The "interpretation" may be different -- but the experiences seem to be the same -- cross-culture as well as cross-religion.

Akiva


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## Serjinder Singh (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*

At the time of near death the supply of oxygen to the brain begins to dwindle on stopping the heart. Somehow the supply of oxygen to neurons involved in memory storage and memory retrieval diminishes depending on when the memories were stored. The earliest memories recordings are lost last of all compared with the recent memories. Conciousness still working before pending death can only recall or experience memory from only the neurons still alive. We all see that in old people with dementia they keep talking about persons long gone but they knew in childhood. The case of near death experience is also the last memory people retrieve or experience is that of the moment when as the babies in the womb they began to come out of the nine months of the darkness of the womb. The outside light seen through the birth canal is the first visual memory recording. This is what most persons in this event recall as being in a dark tunnel proceeding towards an immensly bright light. We may give it whatever religious colour we want but it is the birth vision memory. Another thing commonly mentioned is that it was immensly pleasant and peaceful, something they never experienced in life. At the time of birth a child's brain or the appropriate glands release large amounts of endorphins that help the child to overcome the difficulty of birth and feel comfortable. It is this pleasant memory persons recall and begin to relate it to the 'Other World'.

Of course, if one survives on getting the heart working again and oxygen supply resuming to the neurons that were about to die, the person would remember this experience of recalling the earliest memory.

The first cries of the baby are not due to any pain in the womb or the birth process but is a reflex that helps clear the infant's lungs of the amonic fluid to help begin the breathing process. 

Serjinder Singh


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## kds1980 (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



Serjinder Singh said:


> At the time of near death the supply of oxygen to the brain begins to dwindle on stopping the heart. Somehow the supply of oxygen to neurons involved in memory storage and memory retrieval diminishes depending on when the memories were stored. The earliest memories recordings are lost last of all compared with the recent memories. Conciousness still working before pending death can only recall or experience memory from only the neurons still alive. We all see that in old people with dementia they keep talking about persons long gone but they knew in childhood. The case of near death experience is also the last memory people retrieve or experience is that of the moment when as the babies in the womb they began to come out of the nine months of the darkness of the womb. The outside light seen through the birth canal is the first visual memory recording. This is what most persons in this event recall as being in a dark tunnel proceeding towards an immensly bright light. We may give it whatever religious colour we want but it is the birth vision memory. Another thing commonly mentioned is that it was immensly pleasant and peaceful, something they never experienced in life. At the time of birth a child's brain or the appropriate glands release large amounts of endorphins that help the child to overcome the difficulty of birth and feel comfortable. It is this pleasant memory persons recall and begin to relate it to the 'Other World'.
> 
> Of course, if one survives on getting the heart working again and oxygen supply resuming to the neurons that were about to die, the person would remember this experience of recalling the earliest memory.
> 
> ...



----------------------------------------------------------------
1. People see and hear things that would be impossible while they are unconscious.

Many of the patients who have been revived have been able to describe in great technical detail exactly what went on in the operating room during the time they were supposedly unconscious or dead. Dr Michael Sabom, an American cardiologist, interviewed 100 hospital patients who had narrowly escaped death. Of these 61 per cent reported experiencing classical NDE. He investigated whether these patients were using their imagination, or knowledge that they had subconsciously picked up through earlier hospital experiences.

He asked those who had not had a NDE to imagine watching a medical team reviving a heart attack victim and to describe in as much detail as possible the steps being taken. To his surprise 80% could not describe the steps the medical team would take. On the other hand not one person in the group which claimed to have witnessed what happened while out of their bodies made a mistake in describing the procedure. (Sabom 1980: 120-121).
http://www.victorzammit.com/evidence/nde.htm

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## akiva (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



Serjinder Singh said:


> The case of near death experience is also the last memory people retrieve or experience is that of the moment when as the babies in the womb they began to come out of the nine months of the darkness of the womb. The outside light seen through the birth canal is the first visual memory recording. This is what most persons in this event recall as being in a dark tunnel proceeding towards an immensly bright light. We may give it whatever religious colour we want but it is the birth vision memory.
> Serjinder Singh



QUite possibly true -- Grof's work in transpersonal psychology (My minor in college) lends support to that. 

A problem with that theory, though, is that people who underwent caesarian births can *also* also experience the same "tunnel of light" in the same way. Which would seem to rule out the birth canal experience.

Another problem is that the "birth canal" experience is *not* a peaceful experience. It's traumatic, violent, dark, suffocating. *Not* what people report in NDE.

But he also has documented experiences *beyond* the birth experience -- the transpersonal realm -- where one's individual consciousness is only *part* of a greater whole. Experiences common to people from different backgrounds, cultures, and religions.

Ultimately, mainstream science has no verifiable theory of just what "consciousness" is. 

(I'm specifically *not* including those scientists who speculate about "fields of consciousness", "quantum consciousness", "morphic fields", etc since their theories also aren't verifiable.)

Akiva


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## aristotle (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*

If some people think the visual and auditory hallucinations experienced due to the interplay of cytokines, endorphins, dopamine etc (which are released due to the pushing of human body's normal physiological limits) are 'Near death experiences' as if they have returned from the gates of death, I can only pity them. It is the year 2013 and Science books are not so hard to get


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## aristotle (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



> I'm specifically not including those scientists who speculate about "fields of consciousness", "quantum consciousness", "morphic fields", etc since their theories also aren't verifiable.


Ever heard of pseudoscientists?
Some self-fashioned scientists even claim to support creationism, refute evolution and yeah, the Near death experience drama.


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## akiva (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



aristotle said:


> It is the year 2013 and Science books are not so hard to get



Ah, but the question is *which* science books. What assumptions are those books/theories based on (often unverified). What biases do the authors bring to their books.

Any "mechanicalist" theory, for example, will automatically exclude, from the beginning, any possibility of a "spiritual" component. When discussing physics that's not a problem. When discussing consciousness it is.

As soon as a scientist starts including anything more than a purely mechanical model to his work he finds himself excluded from the realm of "real scientists".

(see http://blog.ted.com/2013/03/14/open-for-discussion-graham-han{censored}-and-rupert-sheldrake/ for a good example. Especially watch Han{censored} and Sheldrake's talks -- then read the blog texts. )

Akiva


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## aristotle (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



> Ah, but the question is which science books.


The need is to cultivate a scientific temper. For an instance, take the present example of NDE. I don't think there is any 'proper' research paper based on a good sample size proving any spiritual significance of NDE. It is as ill-proved a theory as that of Santa Claus. The burden of explanation lies on the supporters of this theory, and they haven't been able to produce a single decent research paper. The newspaper headlines 'Scientist finds proof to soul', 'God explained by Quantum mechanics' etc etc have been appearing since many decades, sadly such pseudoscientists have grossly failed the test of time. There may even be NDE researches proving such happenings to be partially or wholly physiological, I haven't dug deep fearing waste of time on such a topic. 
But yeah, if I may recommend some books, 'The extended phenotype' and 'The Grand design' are good reads.


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## aristotle (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



> But why does every person from different religion see something different.


The answer lies in your own question. People see such things by their own prejudices. Such hallucinations are empty 'fill in the blanks', a Christian fills Jesus, a Muslim fills Allah, and similarly a Sikh will claim to have 'met' with his own version of Waheguru.


> Christians see the light of Jesus Christ apparently, and Muslims see light of Allah.


Why does this 'God' wait till NDE to function as a lightbulb? Does this 'God' like only Near death survivors, and that too, not even everyone among this minority?


> From my view no one has the right answer since they haven't died fully yet.


I dont believe anyone will come back from death to tell. Jesus did (as many believe, not me) ressurect once, but even he didn't tell anything about NDE.


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## akiva (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



aristotle said:


> But yeah, if I may recommend some books, 'The extended phenotype' and 'The Grand design' are good reads.



I've read Dawkins -- and consider him a classic hypocrite. He's more than willing -- and admits it -- to condemn ideas that don't fit his world view without any research into those ideas. He refuses to examine evidence for scientific positions that are contrary to his own.

He also admits -- in an interview in New Scientist some years ago -- to not being a hard scientist but more a scientific philosopher, more interested in presenting his ideas than in scientific research.

I also know, from first hand experience, that he's more than willing to twist what people say to further his agenda. (specifically, his "documentary" on religion about 6 or 7 years ago)

In other words, I consider him totally untrustworthy.

Akiva


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## aristotle (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



> I've read Dawkins -- and consider him a classic hypocrite. He's more than willing -- and admits it -- to condemn ideas that don't fit his world view without any research into those ideas. He refuses to examine evidence for scientific positions that are contrary to his own.


This is a serious accusation. Can you give any example to prove your point?


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## aristotle (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*

Btw such is the illustrious career of Prof. Dawkins Ji,


> 1954-1959 Oundle School
> 1959-1962 Balliol College, Oxford University
> 1962-1966 Research Student, Oxford University (D.Phil., 1966)
> 1965-1967 Research Assistant to Professor N.Tinbergen FRS
> ...


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## punjabivirsa (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*

You cannot understand Near Death Experience with 5 sense parameters alone. This is not something that can be tested by scientists in lab and since they don't see any evidence with 5 senses inside lab they try to make it look like a foolish dream due to lack of oxygen comic theory.

One such Fanatic Phycho Scientist is Dawkins.


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## aristotle (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



> since they don't see any evidence with 5 senses inside lab they try to make it look like a foolish dream due to lack of oxygen comic theory.


IMHO this NDE theory is even more comic.


> One such Fanatic Phycho Scientist is Dawkins.


Please mind your language regarding Prof Dawkins Ji. He is a great scientist and a man of reason, and I have high regard for him.


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## akiva (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*

1) check any of his recent comments on Islam and his admitted lack of knowledge thereof -- but how he's still willing (and feels qualified/justified) to comment on it;

2) watch the lecture by Sheldrake -- I believe he goes into details about Dawkins there as well

3) His refusal to debate WIlliam Craig Lane

4) ANy decent library should have the interview in New Scientist -- my copy is packed away and I don't have the time to did through back issues to find it. It was from the early-mid 90's

Akiva


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## akiva (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



aristotle said:


> Please mind your language regarding Prof Dawkins Ji. He is a great scientist and a man of reason, and I have high regard for him.



And many of us don't.

Respect goes both ways. When he's willing to respect Religious Believers (while disagreeing with their beliefs) then, and only then, will he deserve respect.

(Because his only claim to fame these days is as the main spokesman for the "New Athiests" and their movement for "Reason")

Akiva


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## aristotle (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*

I believe what could be have been a stimulating discussion has decayed into a mud slinging competition. I wont be posting on this thread until someone makes a valid point backed by a valid proof.


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## aristotle (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



akiva said:


> 1) check any of his recent comments on Islam and his admitted lack of knowledge thereof -- but how he's still willing (and feels qualified/justified) to comment on it;
> 
> 2) watch the lecture by Sheldrake -- I believe he goes into details about Dawkins there as well
> 
> ...



I don't think these things show he is not qualified to make an informed scientific point.
Whatever he says about any religion, does not decrease his merit as a scientist.
P.S.-I would have answered your accusations point by point, but this thread is not about Prof Dawkins Ji, it is a very separate topic.


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## aristotle (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



> Why I refuse to debate with William Lane Craig. This Christian 'philosopher' is an apologist for genocide. I would rather leave an empty chair than share a platform with him.
> -Prof Dawkins
> Source: guardiannews.com/commentisfree/2011/oct/20/richard-dawkins-william-lane-craig


Salute!


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## akiva (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*

I gave you various references that support my comments. more links:

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/30/dawkins_harris_hitchens_new_atheists_flirt_with_islamophobia/

So Richard Dawkins has not read the Quran, how can he criticize Islam - NeoGAF


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## aristotle (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



> So Richard Dawkins has not read the Quran


I believe he had better things to do.
Anyways, please stick to the NDE topic.
If you want to debate Dawkins, make a separate thread.


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## akiva (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



aristotle said:


> does not decrease his merit as a scientist



MIght I suggest looking for his actual scientific research? *NOT* popular presentations of ideas -- usually his speculations, *not* backed by hard research -- which he has done quite a bit of.



aristotle said:


> Salute!



And if you look at what Lane actually said you'll see that Dawkins is misrepresenting his position.

But I agree, this exchange is pointless.

Akiva


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## aristotle (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*

I guess you consider research papers as 'actual scientific research'? Here's a list of his papers,


> *Dawkins, R. (1968). "The ontogeny of a pecking preference in domestic chicks". Z Tierpsychol 25 (2): 170–186. doi:10.1111/ j.1439-0310.1968.tb00011. x . PMID 5684149 .
> *Dawkins, R. (1969). "Bees Are Easily Distracted". Science 165 (3895): 751– 751. doi:10.1126/ science.165.3895.751 . PMID 17742255 .
> *Dawkins, R. (1971). "Selective neurone death as a possible memory mechanism". Nature 229 (5280): 118–119. doi:10.1038/229118a0 .
> *Dawkins, R. (1976). "Growing points in ethology". In Bateson, P.P.G. and Hinde, R.A. Hierarchical organization: A candidate principle for ethology. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. Dawkins, R.; Carlisle, T.R. (1976). "Parental investment, mate desertion and a fallacy". Nature 262 (5564): 131–133. doi:10.1038/262131a0 . Treisman, M.; Dawkins, R. (1976). "The "cost of meiosis": is there any?". Journal of Theoretical Biology (London: Academic Press) 63 (2): 479–484. doi:10.1016/0022-5193(76 )90047-3 . PMID 1011857 . Dawkins, R. (1976). "Universal Darwinism". In Bendall, D.S. Evolution from Molecules to Men. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pp. 403– 425. Dawkins R (1978). "Replicator selection and the extended phenotype". Z Tierpsychol 47 (1): 61–76. doi:10.1111/ j.1439-0310.1978.tb01823. x . PMID 696023 . *Dawkins, R.; Krebs, J.R. (1978). "Animal signals: information or manipulation". Behavioural Ecology: An Evolutionary Approach. Oxford: Blackwell Scientific Publications. pp. 282–309.
> ...


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## spnadmin (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*

The topic of the thread is NDE not Dawkins. Some digression is necessary when there is a need for examples of scientists who disagree there is any truth to NDE. The point about Dawkins has been made. He cannot become the subject of the thread. Let's return to the main topic


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## Luckysingh (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



akiva said:


> Abneet Ji
> 
> They *don't* see/experience different things -- they all see "a light" etc.


 
Yep, that's also called meditation !!:winkingmunda:

When you meditate quite deeply, then you will also experience this light and travelling towards it !

In my experience, it hasn't quite been the same thing as yet.

I had a so called NDE a few years ago and I was in a coma for a month.
After recovering, I did a lot of searching and digging into others experiences and came to some conclusions that are pretty valid for me!!-

1) I realized that there was something such as soul or conscious that was separate from my physical body !!!
-I was in a hospital that I had never ever been in before.
-I had been airlifted in, so wouldn't have known what was on the ground floor!
-but somehow, whilst never moving from the ICU bed, I knew my way around the wards and I knew the layout of the ground floor and entrance !!!
- on top of all this, I even knew the names and faces of a few doctors who had never even attended me !!!

I haven't ever discussed in detail all my encounters from the moment where I stopped breathing to my month in a coma, but it was interesting to learn that many others had very similar experiences.

Christians have claimed to see Jesus, muslims Mohammed..etc. and some have seen deceased loved ones.
The only conclusion I can come to about this is that one sees the person or being that they know as a 'guide'.
This guide would be someone you see in higher regards, someone you see at higher level than yourself, a person you admire and love..it doesn't have to be a religious figure it could be anyone as people have even claimed to have seen Elvis, but I didn't read anyone seeing Bob Marley!
This person appears as someone to guide you and in a sense hold your hand to whatever the next level is !

I do believe that it is partly to do with your inner self and conscious that helps dictates this experience.
However, the feeling of bliss and peace is indescribable. 

The reports and theories out there are pretty good but they can't get to the real root of some factors such as 'Memory'
Because if your conscious or soul becomes detached and separate from your body, then how come you remember your experience according to the memory stored in your brain ??
This makes you question, 'is it just the mind and brain playing tricks?'

Somehow, I am more inclined to believe that it is NOT our mind/brain tricking us but more of something that is beyond our own scope of intellect.

Also Note, that the majority of people that come back from an NDE-
-Have a completely different outlook on life.
-Become more spiritual than previously.
-Are never afraid of death anymore, if they happened to be previously.
-Feel that everyone of us has a purpose in this creation for the time we are here.


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## akiva (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



Luckysingh said:


> Yep, that's also called meditation !!:winkingmunda:
> 
> When you meditate quite deeply, then you will also experience this light and travelling towards it !



LuckySingh Ji

Agreed.

And thank you for your post.

Akiva


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## Abneet (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*

The thing I don't understand is that according to Christians, only Jesus was able to go to heaven and come back. But then theres people saying during their NDE they went to heaven and talked to God. To me thats load of bs due to the fact you can't go to heaven or hell and come back. 

Source:http://www.near-death.com/stewart.html

Another interesting thing is theres people who say they have been guided by Jesus Christ in their dreams and He has showed them Hell in their dreams. To me I don't know how to respond to someone experiencing that. It all seems rubbish to me since everyone is always talking about their faith in NDE's.

In my opinion, you will meet your guide as was written before in this thread. But I just feel most NDE's are suspicious in a way on how people describe it.


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## spnadmin (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*

Abneet ji

Short of agreeing with the words "bs" and "rubbish" I believe you bring up some points worth discussing in the thread. These are ideas that never occurred to me until you posted them. 

It seems a lost battle to argue for or against science on either side because religion and science have vastly different yardsticks for "truth." Differing religious angles that you raise might be a good way to go.


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## Abneet (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*

Yeah I was just so curious about people's NDE experiences. I go to a Catholic School where my theology teacher is always with "The Church" and its doings. Whenever I bring up a curious question about NDE he ignores it as if I never asked a question. He is also a deacon, who is suppose to respect every religion, but he called prophet muhammad a false prophet.Now to be that's just going over the border.  I guess we just live in a world today with a lot of people thinking their religion is superior than any other rather than thinking each one is equal.

But back on topic, Near Death experiences is a very interesting topic. My dad's best friend from his childhood was a santh, and before he died he came to America to my house. Then he left for DC. There he met family members at a gurdwara. At the gurdwara a mother said "please take time to call my daughter and just talk to her". Santh ji said My death is near. The mother all confused and mad just left him. At his arrival back to India 2 days after santh ji dies of swine flu. 

From this story I'll say He knew his Death and what was come to forth. I wish I got to know him better and ask him about NDE, but I was 12 at the time. I'll say this, santh ji's around the world who meditate for countless of years each day gain a undescriptive relationship with waheguru. It's unbelievable. and I JUST WANTED TO SHARE THE STORY.


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## spnadmin (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*



Abneet said:


> Yeah I was just so curious about people's NDE experiences. I go to a Catholic School where my theology teacher is always with "The Church" and its doings. Whenever I bring up a curious question about NDE he ignores it as if I never asked a question. He is also a deacon, who is suppose to respect every religion, but he called prophet muhammad a false prophet. I guess we just live in a world today with a lot of people thinking their religion is superior than any other rather than thinking each one is equal.



Abneet ji

From personal associations with many Roman Catholics, some are members of the clergy, the NDE depending on how it is defined, can run very close to a heresy with the Roman Church dogma. Pretty much for the reason you already gave, death and return is limited to the doctrine of the resurrection of the body at the end of time. 

"The thing I don't understand is that according to Christians, only Jesus was able to go to heaven and come back. But then theres people saying during their NDE they went to heaven and talked to God. To me thats load of bs due to the fact you can't go to heaven or hell and come back."

One life, one death, one soul, per person,  Then a final resurrection when the messiah returns. Of course there are Roman Catholics who disagree, especially in the age of the internet where access to many points of view and discussion of them is easy. Less often does it work for the padre of a local parish telling the faithful what to think 

What concerns me is that in a theology class the teacher/deacon is discouraging your question. It seems to me that more discussion rather than less would make teachings of any church open to a better understanding. His silence can backfire in many ways. It did not stop you from considering all points of view.

Please continue to consider aloud, here, so we can benefit.


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## spnadmin (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*

I am actually checking this on YouTube and more than one Catholic priest has made a video about his own NDE. One priest described his experience as finding himself in the belly of a whale (remember the story of Job?)  

Let me not pursue my own biases here!

p/s I found this. When Pope John Paul wrote about his own NDE there was no mention of a tunnel, angel, vision of Jesus or other divine being, or trip to hell. ""For some time I remained conscious," he says. "I had a feeling I was going to survive. I suffered, and that was a reason for fear, but I had this strange feeling of confidence."

http://articles.latimes.com/2005/feb/23/world/fg-popebook23


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## Abneet (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*

I have to rewrite what I wrote due to exiting the page 

      First of all, I wanna say I agree with you. My thelogy teacher refuses to answer most of my questions anyhow. How can one theology teacher teach his religion superior than any other. Even though Islamic Scholars do it too, he should be giving respect to each and every one.

      Also, my teacher has ignored some of these questions that he answered back speaking gibberish or starting talking about off-topic subjects.

I asked him if Jesus was God, and it is stated in the Bible that he is, why didn't he tell the people at NDE's. (He answered saying He already told so much about life that there was no time for him to talk about that)

Next, I asked him a question if force conversion is wrong today. (He said of course)

Then I showed him a Christian Missionary site where they try to trick Sikhs in Amritsar.
They tell what Christians should say to Sikhs and how their God is better and more loving.
Source: http://sikhoutreach.org/

(He replies well there are bad missionaries out there, just like their are radical islamics)

Again he is attacking Islam like its his job. This site really shows what Christian Missionaries do. 

SPNAdmin, I admire you wanting me to share this and I really appreciate it. It's just everyday I go in this class learning Catholic teachings and seeing on how their odd.

One last point I want to make is He said from the top of his tongue that the Bible is the Word of God. Clearly the bible manuscripts have changed over hundreds years ago does not make it authentic.


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## spnadmin (May 9, 2013)

*Re: Near Death Experiencess*

Abneet ji

I just checked your age to see how much more time you will be at your school. Keeping your core values in mind, you have 2 more years at the high school. Then perhaps a university waits for you, where a broad view is open to you, questions and debate take place, and teachers take an active interest in questioning minds. 

It is easy to say and tough to do, but you learn some important lessons about yourself in your current situation. You have a brain and you can trust it. Authority figures are not always dependable sources of knowledge or logic. Time spent being patient with your teachers is time spent developing a "let's just wait and see what we find out next" attitude which is an important tool for developing your own intellect and becoming a problem solver. It is a strength, even though it sucks. It is the essential attitude of someone who really thinks, develops what the Gurus call bibek/discernment, and does not confuse popular opinions or immediate impressions with wisdom.

You just have to know you will get through it.

On your remarks about the missionary work of Catholics and other Christians. My own discoveries support your conclusions. It is a matter of faith, btw, for Roman Catholics to accept the "affirmative mandate" to proselytize in order to rescue souls. The roman branch of Christianity may be more subtle than other Christian denominations, but it is nonetheless a mandate. The mandate is shared by Muslims and Buddhists; however, Buddhists have a somewhat different philosophy and approach as to how to bring others to salvation/moksha.


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## Tejwant Singh (Mar 23, 2015)

Is NDE sort of almost falling off the abyss moment or kind of Aant Kaal cluster of moments? Either way one is still alive and well.


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