# Do You See Differences Or Similarities ?



## Astroboy (Jul 12, 2008)

Are we playing SPOT THE DIFFERENCES OR SIMILARITIES ?
You decide. Good Luck.


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## Astroboy (Jul 12, 2008)

I believe this thread will eventually become very popular as they are no fixed rules other than the Forum Rules.
So everyone join in and make it a popular place to share pics and ideas.


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## spnadmin (Jul 12, 2008)

Nam Jap,

That is a good idea. As in an open forum chat. It will take off. 

BTW the pictures to compare. Once I read the title thread then I started automatically looking for similarities -- because the thread title implied it. But actually to be honest I saw the differences instantly and then looked for similarites and said, Oh Yes!

hah!


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## pk70 (Jul 12, 2008)

seems there are, actually there is not much similar   Answer to first one


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## pk70 (Jul 12, 2008)

namjap said:


> I believe this thread will eventually become very popular as they are no fixed rules other than the Forum Rules.
> So everyone join in and make it a popular place to share pics and ideas.



*Here two kinds of offices are put there, all similarities in the office but no similarities as they are run.  Environments are totally different. Remember, the strict one, no jumping, the liberal,  jumping is possible possible. Sometime similarities define each others. Strictly my views. Is there possibility of being right?
*


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## spnadmin (Jul 12, 2008)

pk70 ji

I think there is a picture of your avatar on the tv screens. A picture of your picture. That is cool.


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## pk70 (Jul 12, 2008)

aad0002 said:


> pk70 ji
> 
> I think there is a picture of your avatar on the tv screens. A picture of your picture. That is cool.



*How did I miss it? Obviously we learn about our limits from those who show us what we don't:idea:. Thanks a lot*!


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## spnadmin (Jul 12, 2008)

I could be wrong, but the screen on the right, it looks like a fish.


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## pk70 (Jul 12, 2008)

aad0002 said:


> I could be wrong, but the screen on the right, it looks like a fish.


*aad0002 Ji
Now I see it, you see only after it is pointed out by you before I didn't look at those screens carefully, that was my limit I pointed out, Thanks again Bhainji*:happy:


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## Astroboy (Jul 13, 2008)

While we are at it, water wheels have always facinated me till the present day. Which was the first civilisation which used water wheels ?

Here's a 3D of how a water wheel operates but modus operandi isn't clearto me. 
Can someone fill me on this ?


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## spnadmin (Jul 13, 2008)

What was the first civilization to use water wheels?


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## Sinister (Jul 13, 2008)

namjap said:


> While we are at it, water wheels have always facinated me till the present day. Which was the first civilisation which used water wheels ?
> 
> Here's a 3D of how a water wheel operates but modus operandi isn't clearto me.
> Can someone fill me on this ?


 


Lets see if we can go back and brushup on some of our physics

The undershot water wheel is easy to explain once you get a grasp of the overshot water wheel.

Here I will explain the overshot water wheel (the first cartoon picture on the left) …

Water likes to travel from a high-energy state to a low-energy state. Which is why water runs down hill.

At the top, the water has potential energy (PE) and kinetic energy (KE) (Motional energy). The traditional mechanical formula for the water at this stage would be E(total)= PE (water) + KE (water)

Expanded:

E = mg (delta-h) + ½ mv^2

Where m is the mass of the water component
G is the gravitational constant 9.8m/s^2
Delta-h is the height at which the water is initially elevated (from the ground)
V= velocity of the water component
E= energy which is measured in Joules 
1 joule= 1 N*m = 1 Kg * m^2/s^2

Because energy is conserved in a closed system…the water traveling from a higher height to a lower height has the capacity to perform Work.

as it falls onto the wheel a force is applied tangential to one side of the wheel. And from traditional Newtonian mechanics we know that an unbalanced force will cause acceleration and motion


From an energy standpoint:
The Potential energy of the water is converted into kinetic energy (KE) as soon as it starts to fall. As soon as the water touches the wheel, the wheel starts to receive this energy and expresses it as motion.

Total energy of the system now is = Energy (water) + Energy (wheel)


In an ideal system (disregarding frictional forces)
PE (water initial) + KE (water initial) = PE (water final) + KE (water final) + KE (wheel) 
(at any given point in space and time) 


E (water) gives its energy to E (wheel) as it falls. Potential energy of the water is converted into kinetic energy (motion)… (and in case of a wheel that translates to rotation as the falling water acts like a hand rotating a wheel…similar to how handicapped people move around on a wheelchair…applying a certain degree of force tangential to circumference of a wheel….the wheel spins) 

note: the water has lost energy as it travels from its height to the ground…the wheel takes that energy and uses it as motion (which is translated into work= N*meter displacement)

as for the first civilization to use the water wheel…I would say Assyrians, Egyptians or Babylonians, maybe even some early indus civilizations as long as they were close to and overly dependant on river systems…would have used some sort of water wheel


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Jul 13, 2008)

1. Hindu Omkar 2. Buddhist Omkar 3. Sikh Ek Onkar 4. Jain Omkar


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## spnadmin (Jul 13, 2008)

Sinister said:


> as for the first civilization to use the water wheel…I would say Assyrians, Egyptians or Babylonians, maybe even some early indus civilizations as long as they were close to and overly dependant on river systems…would have used some sort of water wheel



LOL Which one? There are 3 correct answers. But not Assyrians, Egyptians or Babylonians. :ice:


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## Sinister (Jul 13, 2008)

aad0002 said:


> LOL Which one? There are 3 correct answers. But not Assyrians, Egyptians or Babylonians. :ice:


 

who really knows conclusively where and when the water wheel was first utilized? i dont

but my guesses where these places

the greeks and romans definately utilized water wheels (they were a smart bunch) 
but who knows if they actually developed it themselves or borrowed the technology from elsewhere

but the babylonians had a wonder called 'the hanging gardens of babylon' which were said to have been watered by a waterwheel or a chain pump (very similiar to a water wheel):

http://www.unmuseum.org/hangg.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_pump#Chain_pumps_in_the_Middle_East_and_Rome

don't know about the credibility of such a site but it may just be true. 
the water wheel is definitely a derivative of a chain pump...and the waterwheel itself is a much less complicated system than a chain pump. 

so if they had chain pumps they had waterwheels. (*a chain pump system is just the reverse of a waterwheel system*)


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jul 13, 2008)

chinese?

they are quite smart


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jul 13, 2008)

let's go by the logic of greatest dependence on water and i think we have to consider floods etc too..

so my guess would be egyptians, chinese and indus


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## Sinister (Jul 13, 2008)

my guesses are still babylon, egypt, indus (maybe assyrians)

later to be perfected by chinese and grecko-romans

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_pump#Chain_pumps_in_the_Middle_East_and_Romehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_p..._East_and_Rome

sticking by the chain pump argument


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## spnadmin (Jul 13, 2008)

Sinisterji

Check "waterwheel" in Wikipedia and you get a different answer.


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## Astroboy (Jul 19, 2008)

*Underwater Cities, Ruins and Other Urban Archeology: 7 Submerged Wonders of the World*

  Written by Urbanist on September 12th, 2007 - Topics: 7 Wonders,  Architecture,  Urban,  Urban Images,  Various 
 		 			A wealth of human history lies submerged in ancient cities at the bottoms of lakes, seas and oceans of the world. Some of these were sent into the water via earthquakes, tsunamis or other disasters thousands of years ago. Many have just recently been rediscovered, by accident or through emergent technological innovations. Some have even caused scientists to question the history of human civilization.





*Alexandria, Egypt**:* Off the shores of Alexandria, the city of Alexander the Great, lie what are believed to be the ruins of the royal quarters of Cleopatra. It is believed that earthquakes over 1,500 years ago were responsible for casting this into the sea, along with artifacts, statues and other parts of Cleopatra’s palace. The city of Alexandria even plans to offer underwater tours of this wonder.




*Bay of Cambay, India**:* A few years back discovered the remains of a vast 9,500 year old city. This submerged ruin has intact architecture and human remains. More significantly, this find predates all finds in the area by over 5,000 years, forcing historians to reevaluate their understanding of the history of civilazation in the region. The find has been termed Dwarka, or the ‘Golden City,’ after an ancient city-in-the sea said to belong to the Hindu god Krishna.




*Kwan Phayao, Thailand:* In itself perhaps not unusual, a 500 year old Thai temple sits at the bottom of lake Phayao. What makes this case strange is that the lake was actually made intentionally about 70 years ago, and that there has been recent discussion of potentially restoring the temple at the cost of billions of dollars. However, the ruins serve as a habitat for fish that many have argued should remain untouched.




*Yonaguni-Jima, Japan:* Discovered by a dive tour guide some twenty years ago, controversies have arisen around a mysterious pyramids found off the coast of Japan. These structures seem to have been carved right out of bedrock in a teraforming process using tools previously thought unavailable to ancient cultures of the region.




*Havana, Cuba:* A team of scientists continues to explore megalithic ruins found in the Yucatan Channel near Cuba. They have found evidence of an extensive urban environment stretching for miles along the ocean shore. Some believe that the civilization that inhabited these predates all known ancient American cultures. So far, only computer models of this mysterious underwater city exist.




*North Sea, Europe**:* A lost natural landscape was found recently under the North Sea, once occupied by human hunter-gatherers over 10,000 years ago. What were once rivers, lakes and oceans are now all at the bottom of the sea, only made known through digital mapping. Scientists theorize that this amazingly well-preserved landscape was at the heart of an ancient civilization spread across Europe.




*Atlantis, Antarctica? *Over a hundred years ago, a museum curator in Istanbul made a remarkable discovery. Examining an ancient map on gazelle skin, he found a location marking a mountain chain where Antarctica is today. This map is, amazingly, one of many pieces of evidence people have used to try and claim that, in fact, Antarctica is the fabled lost continent of Atlantis. Other evidence includes the recent discovery (via sonar technology) of land under Antarctica as well as the mapping systems used by ancient cartographers, which suggest Atlantis might have been located far from the Mediterranean Sea.
_Enjoy this collection? Be sure to check out 7 Abandoned Wonders of the Postmodern World and 7 More Deserted Wonders of the World. Interested in abandonments? See this article on urban exploration._


Underwater Lost Cities: 7 Submerged Urban Wonders of the World | WebUrbanist


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## spnadmin (Jul 19, 2008)

So much fun. Please post more! We all need to smile more often.


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## pk70 (Jul 19, 2008)

Written by Urbanist on September 12th, 2007 - Topics: 7 Wonders,  Architecture,  Urban,  Urban Images,  Various 
A wealth of human history lies submerged in ancient cities at the bottoms of lakes, seas and oceans of the world. Some of these were sent into the water via earthquakes, tsunamis or other disasters thousands of years ago. Many have just recently been rediscovered, by accident or through emergent technological innovations. Some have even caused scientists to question the history of human civilization ( quote namjapji)
WISMAAD
॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ  ਪਉਣੁ  ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ  ਪਾਣੀ  ॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ  ਅਗਨੀ  ਖੇਡਹਿ  ਵਿਡਾਣੀ  ॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ  ਧਰਤੀ  ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ  ਖਾਣੀ  ॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ  ਸਾਦਿ  ਲਗਹਿ  ਪਰਾਣੀ .......
Wonderful is Thy wind and wonderful Thy water. Wonderful is Thy fire, which works wonders. Wonderful is the earth and wonderful the sources of production. Wonderful are the revelments to which the mortals are attached. 
ਕਿਤੇ ਪਉਣ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਕਿਤੇ ਪਾਣੀ ਹੈ, ਕਿਤੇ ਕਈ ਅਗਨੀਆਂ ਅਚਰਜ ਖੇਡਾਂ ਕਰ ਰਹੀਆਂ ਹਨ; ਧਰਤੀ ਤੇ ਧਰਤੀ ਦੇ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦੀ ਉਤਪੱਤੀ ਦੀਆਂ ਚਾਰ ਖਾਣੀਆਂ-ਇਹ ਕੁਦਰਤ ਵੇਖ ਕੇ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਥੱਰਾਹਟ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੋ ਰਹੀ ਹੈ। ਜੀਵ ਪਦਾਰਥਾਂ ਦੇ ਸੁਆਦ ਵਿਚ ਲੱਗ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ.......
*NO WONDER HE IS NAMED INEXPRESSIBLE( AKATH)*,* BECAUSE HE IS*


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## Canuck Singh (Jul 19, 2008)

Nice thread, I don't know how to contribute but I must say I am surprised by the high quality of the threads/topics on this forum. :yes:


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## Astroboy (Jul 21, 2008)

The similarities which I'm going to highlight are :-

a) I wonder if  they thought about bricks (clay bricks) at that time. 
b) how come all these ancient cities used massive size building blocks for the city walls.
c) most of the buildings are pyramid shaped. Is there any truth about space ships landing on pyramid structures ?

Can someone bring out more similarities ?


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## spnadmin (Jul 21, 2008)

Not a similarity but maybe connection, NamJap ji.

The Atlantic ocean did not extend as far down long ago as it does now. Africa and South America were connected. The separation occurred slowly over time. The ocean may have been much narrower when African and South American civilizations were developing. Maritime travel may have caused a sharing of cultural influences. So there may have been more cross currents of knowledge than we recognize. 

Also a pyramid is a stable structure and engineers in two civilizations could have realized that independently. Just like the water wheel -- you remember that -- was probably invented independently in Greece and Asia Minor and in China independently.  These are step pyramids I believe.

Anyway, the space invader hypothesis continually comes up because it is spookier than the idea that plain ingenuity may be the answer.


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jul 21, 2008)

if an explanation is too simple, it is probably the correct one


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## spnadmin (Jul 21, 2008)

amarsanghera said:


> if an explanation is too simple, it is probably the correct one



Ocham's Razor. Which explanation do you think is the simplest one?


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## Sinister (Jul 21, 2008)

aad0002 said:


> Not a similarity but maybe connection, NamJap ji.
> 
> The Atlantic ocean did not extend as far down long ago as it does now. Africa and South America were connected. The separation occurred slowly over time. The ocean may have been much narrower when African and South American civilizations were developing. Maritime travel may have caused a sharing of cultural influences. So there may have been more cross currents of knowledge than we recognize.


 
Nope, don't see any type of direct connection. Gondwana separated into Africa and Southamerica from a period of 500 to 200 Ma ago. 

so direct connenction between the continents can be ruled out, because no humans existed back then.

and since human civilization (non-nomadic) has been around for about 25000-10000 B.C.E the continents have shifted little from their current position. 

so relatively the ocean was narrower when the civilizations were developing but only by a couple of feet...as compared to their present orientation. 



aad0002 said:


> Also a pyramid is a stable structure and engineers in two civilizations could have realized that independently. Just like the water wheel -- you remember that -- was probably invented independently in Greece and Asia Minor and in China independently. These are step pyramids I believe.


 
this is most likely the case



aad0002 said:


> Anyway, the space invader hypothesis continually comes up because it is spookier than the idea that plain ingenuity may be the answer.


 
ingenuity :happy: 


cheers


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jul 21, 2008)

spaghetti flying monster


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## Astroboy (Aug 2, 2008)

*Indian Yoga vs. Mexican Yoga*

Indian Yoga vs. Mexican Yoga  A day in the life of a Houston Social Butterfly


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## Archived_Member_19 (Aug 7, 2008)

talking abt Butterflies

how abt Chaos theory?


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## Astroboy (Aug 7, 2008)

Chaos Theory ? 
I smell Sinister Ji coming this way.
Mathematical calculation..... let the man, Sinister fill you on this !!!


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## Astroboy (Aug 7, 2008)

Turbulence in the tip vortex from an airplane wing. Studies of the critical point beyond which a system creates turbulence was important for Chaos theory, analyzed for example by the Soviet physicist Lev Landau who developed the Landau-Hopf theory of turbulence. David Ruelle and Floris Takens later predicted, against Landau, that fluid turbulence could develop through a strange attractor, a main concept of chaos theory.


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## spnadmin (Aug 7, 2008)

* Whatever Happened To...                  Whatever Happened to... Chaos Theory?             *


The hype has subsided and now chaos theory is a ubiquitous part of science.

Read more at this site


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## Sinister (Aug 8, 2008)

namjap said:


> Chaos Theory ?
> I smell Sinister Ji coming this way.
> Mathematical calculation..... let the man, Sinister fill you on this !!!


 

Namjap ji,

*Any formula that creates a system with sensitive dependence on initial conditions is a logistical equation that can explain or represent chaos theory.*

Your confidence in my arithmetic capabilities is quite flattering but there is no possible way I could explain all of chaos theory with formulas, because a skilled chaos mathematician could come up with more variables and applications than the hairs on my head. (but, I can give you a little nibble of what I know)…what is your background?

The essential prerequisites needed to understand the most basic chaos theorems includes single-variable calculus, curve-sketching, Taylor series and separable differential equations. In a few places, multivariable calculus is needed (Partial derivatives, Jacobian Matrix, divergeance theorem), you need to know linear algebra (eigenvalues and eigenvectors), need to know Fourier Ananlysis and of co{censored}… introductory physics.

All equations that help explain chaos theory are non-linear (Non-linearity is a mathematical way of saying that different dynamical degrees of freedom (the variables) “act on” each other and on themselves so that a given degree of freedom evolves not in a fixed environment but in an environment that itself changes with time). Chaos equations are all non-linear, they can be Bifurcated, Fractal or exhibit something called Complexity (all chaos systems must have negative and positive feedback systems existing in extreme complexity).

For example…the way in which your lungs and blood vessels bifurcate during development can be explained using chaos theory and mathematical models.
Eg: Koch Curve Fractal (I’ll let you research this if you are interested)
http://www.arcytech.org/java/fractals/koch.shtml

Been a long time since I’ve visited any of them. 

But let me dig up some more Bifurcation for explaining biological systems (simplest of many chaos representations)

X(n+1) = R X(n) (1-X(n))  often used in explaining populations
http://hornacek.coa.edu/dave/Chaos/orbits.html

where R is a parameter, and X(n) is the variable at the nth iteration with value between 1 and 0, and n can be considered as the running variable.

It is a recursive equation, which generates a new value from the previous value. It can be used as a simple model for species population with no predators, but limited food supply (a human race without disease, war and predator deaths). In this case, the population is a number between 0 and 1, where 1 represents the maximum possible population and 0 represents extinction. R is the growth rate, and n is the generation number.
For more information I found this page: http://universe-review.ca/R01-09-chaos.htm

There are many more mathematical representations that represent chaos theory… most are extremely complex, many are well over my head and my areas of expertise. 

Its applied everywhere nowadays… 

Research something called Lorenz’s Waterwheel!!! 
He explains the workings of a leaky waterwheel and why it exhibits chaotic motion (keeping in continuity with our previous discussion on water wheels) 

Its wild…here is an excellent simulation of the waterwheel (bottom of the page…must be downloaded)

http://public.globalnet.hr/~gvlahovi/lorenz/lorenzww_eng.htm


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## Astroboy (Aug 8, 2008)

Pea{censored}'s feather !!!

Sinister Ji,

Thank you for your very valid response. My understanding about maths and physics is surface curiosity. The formula e mean nothing to me but I've seen one other person who has genuine interest in physics - a new member - abc.def
I discussed time dilation with him but he went even further and I'm at a loss.


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## Sinister (Aug 9, 2008)

namjap said:


> Pea{censored}'s feather !!!
> 
> Sinister Ji,
> 
> ...


 
whos that? what post is that again?

maybe i can take a jab at it..see what the commotion is all about 

cheers bro


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## Astroboy (Aug 9, 2008)

Sinister Jeeee,
http://www.sikhism.us/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/22576-can-time-machine-be-created.html#post84817


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## Astroboy (Aug 17, 2008)

Funny Pictures - Cats - Indian School Bus - Cool Pictures

vs.

http://www.laughparty.com/funnypicture/Funny-face-bus/1034/


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## Astroboy (Dec 11, 2008)

Hi guyz, there is room for alot of discussion after you've read this:-

Similarities And Differences Between Men And Animals


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## Sinister (Dec 19, 2008)

namjap said:


> Hi guyz, there is room for alot of discussion after you've read this:-
> 
> Similarities And Differences Between Men And Animals


 

Namjap ji,

I think you know better than I that a discussion on this would be a marvelous waste of energy and time. There are people who look at empirical evidence and then there are the hardened drones who fall blindly to indoctrination. A behaviour seen in those who have misinterpreted a multiply translated ancient scripture on moral code. 

Eventually in a discussion, each group, equally callous and ill informed in their arguments, would then progress to utilizing this ‘debate’ not to come to any conclusions but rather to see the opponent a bit more disheartened and offended.

It would also be a non-authentic discussion filled with Cliché’s and gross generalizations by both who have little understanding or care for an understanding of the other side.

It is simply a matter of taste (or to continue with my end of Cliché argument…a matter of mental capacity)
All I can say to the people who take that page as any semblance of truth…good luck finding a job in any research field…you will be alienated simply because the practical applications of any of these 'creationist arguments' you submit will be nil.

Keep it Awesome
Sinister.


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## anders (Dec 29, 2008)

namjap said:


> Are we playing SPOT THE DIFFERENCES OR SIMILARITIES ?
> You decide. Good Luck.



It seems that nobody has taken up the OP challenge, so here goes.

If you simplify graphics enough they'll all look similar. But out of the three OP examples, the Jewish menorah (chandelier) is the only one that clearly has seven parts (for seven candles). It can be discussed if the number refers to the seven days of the week as proposed in Genesis, or the seven planets known to antiquity, or perhaps something else. Any way you argue, it's clearly seven. Different from the other two graphics, where you may imagine at most five parts.

Next, the Persian rising bird of Phoenix like in the Iranian flag. Also a calligraphic rendering of the name Allah (الله). Interesting, clever and unique.

Lastly, you all should know the combination of the centre khaNDa, the two kirpans and the chakkar. Very unique indeed. No connection to writing.

Knowing the origins, it's three very different symbols.


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