# Who Is A Saint And How To Recognise Him?



## Sikh80 (Jan 29, 2008)

In the Granth sahib ji ,lot Of importance is given to the Saints but how to recognise and how to seek the company  of such persons is the question. May be you can answer. 
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lwlu gulwlu ghbrw scw rMgu cVwau ] (18-11, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
Like the poppies, they are dyed in the deep crimson color of Truthfulness.
 scu imlY sMqoKIAw hir jip eykY Bwie ]1] (18-12, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
Those contented souls who meditate on the Lord with single-minded love, meet the True Lord. ||1||
 BweI ry sMq jnw kI ryxu ] (18-12, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
O Siblings of Destiny, become the dust of the feet of the humble Saints.
 sMq sBw guru pweIAY mukiq pdwrQu Dyxu ]1] rhwau ] (18-12, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
In the Society of the Saints, the Guru is found. He is the Treasure of Liberation, the Source of all good fortune. ||1||Pause||
 aUcau Qwnu suhwvxw aUpir mhlu murwir ] (18-13, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
Upon that Highest Plane of Sublime Beauty, stands the Mansion of the Lord.
 scu krxI dy pweIAY dru Gru mhlu ipAwir ] (18-14, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
By true actions, this human body is obtained, and the door within ourselves which leads to the Mansion of the Beloved, is found.
 gurmuiK mnu smJweIAY Awqm rwmu bIcwir ]2] (18-14, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
The Gurmukhs train their minds to contemplate the Lord, the Supreme Soul. ||2||
 iqRibiD krm kmweIAih Aws AMdysw hoie ] (18-15, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
By actions committed under the influence of the three qualities, hope and anxiety are produced.
 ikau gur ibnu iqRkutI CutsI shij imilAY suKu hoie ] (18-15, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
Without the Guru, how can anyone be released from these three qualities? Through intuitive wisdom, we meet with Him and find peace.
 inj Gir mhlu pCwxIAY ndir kry mlu Doie ]3] (18-16, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
Within the home of the self, the Mansion of His Presence is realized when He bestows His Glance of Grace and washes away our pollution


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## sadhu (Mar 1, 2009)

*Re: Who is a Saint and How to Recognise him*

at sikhi80

My friend you cannot recognise a saint by just looking at a him, because a saint has the same kind of a body as ordinary human beings. He wears same kind of clothes as each of us. He eats the same food, he drinks the same water and he breathes in the same air. There is not much difference if you look at a saint from outside. But there is somethiing in him that makes him totally different from us. His consciousness has now become superconsciousness. He is conscious of the whole universe in him. He is conscious of the eternal now. Infact he is eternal, he is living god. He may look like an ordinary human being to you from the outside, but in reality now he is much more than his body, he is infinite now. 
But you can never know the inside of any human being, so how can you recognize a a saint? because to be a saint is something of the inside, its something about the inner consciousness.
So one thing is certain, you cannot recognize a saint, unless you are a saint yourself. Because if you are a saint you will have the capacity to look inside of another person,you will be able to percieve the level of consciousness of the other person, but at the moment you are not a saint. So its almost impossible to recognize a saint.

The only thing you can do is,Go and try to sit close to THE persons, who attract you. Because the presence of a saint is so powerful, that even if you are not aware that the person near you is a saint, your inner wavelength will start vibrating in his energy. You may suddenly start feeling a gush of love in your in your heart. You may even feel like dancing. You will start feeling ecstatic in his mere presence. Just the presence of such person will make you feel ecstatic. Just go and look for him. First go to the ones who attract you. Just sit with them, be with them, and who knows you may find a true master.
But you can never judge a saint, because to judge, you need to be higher than him, or atleast equal to him. And a saint is living infinty you cannot exceed him. You yourself will have to be of a calibre of a saint in order to recognize a saint. 
Just go and try to be with different masters, and i know there are many, you will definitely find someone, who can shake you, deep down your very roots, so that your sleep is shattered, so that you can be awake, so that you can become enlightened.

thank you


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## spnadmin (Mar 1, 2009)

*Re: Who is a Saint and How to Recognise him*

Forgive me, in this line,

In the Society of the Saints, the Guru is found. He is the Treasure of Liberation, the Source of all good fortune. ||1||Pause||

The Guru is the Satguru, Waheguru, Akaal Purakh, Kartar, Hari. Guruji is not speaking of a human guru. All human gurus ended with Nanak 11th, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj. Now you find Sri Guru speaking with the voice of all the other 10. There is no need to recognize anyone, because a human whom you may think a "sant" will always lead you back to the voice of the Satguru -- Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj.


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## sadhu (Mar 1, 2009)

*Re: Who is a Saint and How to Recognise him*

at aad0002

"The Guru is the Satguru, Waheguru, Akaal Purakh, Kartar, Hari." Thats true. 
But when you say that guruji is not speaking of the human guru, then i would ask you a few questions.
1. How do you know that all human gurus ended with guru11th?
2. Did you talk to guru nanak about this?
3. Did guru gobind singh told you about this fact?

because i did not find any of your claims in gurbani. And moreover if the granth was the guru, then instead of using the words guru, sadhu, sant, brahamgyani the ten gurus could simply use the word "granth" in their texts.  

The ten gurus, the bhagats, and the fakirs whose bani is in gurugranth sahib, have never ever mentioned this fact, that the granth is the guru.


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## Astroboy (Mar 1, 2009)

*Re: Who is a Saint and How to Recognise him*

Guru is the Bani.


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## kds1980 (Mar 1, 2009)

*Re: Who is a Saint and How to Recognise him*



> because i did not find any of your claims in gurbani. And moreover if the granth was the guru, then instead of using the words guru, sadhu, sant, brahamgyani the ten gurus could simply use the word "granth" in their texts.



To follow sikhism One also needs to Understand and accept sikh history and in sikh History
There is no mention 11th Guru.Guru harkrishan sahib  died without mentioning name of 9th Guru but still sikhs found Guru tegh bahadur ji so how come sikhs were unable to found 11 th living guru?


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## spnadmin (Mar 1, 2009)

*Re: Who is a Saint and How to Recognise him*

sadhu ji

Nanak X determined who his successor would be. You know what I am talking about. So the only other thing that could satisfy your doubts would be evidence from the ground, so to speak. Eye-witness testimony recorded on video, day and time-dated. Polaroid shots. Newspaper articles. There aren't any. Eye witness accounts, sealed and notarized in a magistrate's court. There aren't any. 

Instead there is a written tradition, supported by various Gursikhs who were present, as to what happened the day before the death of Sri Gobind Singh ji when he declared that the Adi Granth is the Guru. 

Now if your intellectual skepticism takes you in a different direction, I am not one to argue or even criticize. You have expressed your opinions and you did not back them up with notarized documents, Polaroid snapshots, news articles or cell-phone videos from eye-witnesses, either. But, you are entitled to your *opinions*.  

Nonetheless, your challenges take you outside of the venue of Gurmat Vichaar. And as such they border on disrespect for the 11th and final Sikh Guru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj. The act of Sri Gobind Singh ji liberated us from spiritual dependence on human gurus -- there are no mediators, no filters, only that liberating and  personal connection with Guruji.

Next time around the post will be moved. Moderator's note: aad0002


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Mar 1, 2009)

*Re: Who is a Saint and How to Recognise him*

Thanks aad Ji for setting the record staright...and succintly at that.

Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai...
One Bani One Guru One Vichaar....
The Bani is GURU..and the GURU is BANI...
The Third Nanak Guru Amardass Ji wrote the Shahkaar ANAD SAHIB..Bani of BLISS to dispell all these DOUBTS..LONG before 1708 as to the GURTA of the Shabad GURU - SGGS.:welcome:


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## sadhu (Mar 2, 2009)

*Re: Who is a Saint and How to Recognise him*

at aad0002
First of all thank you for replying me.
And my friend i am not trying to disrespect sri guru granth sahib, let it be very clear. 

You never answered my questions, and definitely you dont have the answers.
Coming to your point, that guru granth sahib is 11th guru it was decided by 10th guru just before he left the body, and you say that there is a written tradition supported by various gurmukhs who were present.
Well, then its clear from what you say, that guru gobind singh has never said that adi granth is the guru in any of his own hand written texts. According to you it was written in "tradition" supported by gurmukhs who were present. You believe a tradition, instead of believing guru gobind hiimself. You believe a tradition instead of believing the guru granth sahib itself. You believe a tradition instead of believing the ten gurus. 
Because neither guru gobind, nor the ten gurus have proclaimed that they are the only holy men on earth, and that after them there will be no other enlightened beings. Infact they never claimed anything. Gurubani is full of poetry written in a state of supreme blissfulness in love of god or in the love of their guru, or in the love of the saints. And poetry never claims anything, its just a fragrance of the ones who have known the mysteries of the eternal. 
You are the ones who are claiming, who are shouting aggressively, that after guru gobind there can be no enlightened person. You are claiming this just because your tradition says so. And tradition is something that is passed on, and on and on. And when something is passed on and on, it loses its original nature, it loses its authenticity, and the essential part is always faded away. Because different people make out different meanings of what is said, they add their own views on it, they make different conclusions according to their own understanding, and then they pass it on further, and then same happens again. 
If you are believing a tradition, then you are believing something that has been molded, then remolded, then reshaped, by many people who were not of the calibre of guru gobind singh ji. 

Why are you so much impressed by this tradition, and not by gurugranth sahib, or the ten gurus, or the saints, or the brahamgyanis?

AND yes my opinions dont need notarized documents or polaried snapshots, simply because they are not my opinions, they are facts. Your "traditions" *do need* to present someproofs, but factual truths dont need proofs. Just the truth is enough. But even still if you are not satisfied, then gurugranth sahib is there, i can get you hundreds of lines that can prove you wrong. 

You say that my chalenges take me outside gurmat vichaar. Well then my friend you are mistaken, i am absolutely talking gurmat vichar, the vichars of the guru. It is you who is standing outside the venue of gurmat vichar, you are in the venue of "*traditional vichar", because you speak of tradition and i speak of gurubani.*

I never said that the saints are the mediators between you and god, no. But yes they can tell you the way they have attained the supreme blissfullness, and the way they have reached this ecstacy. But remember you are the one who has to walk the path, the saint will only show you the way, he can never give you enlightenement. You yourself will have to reach god. A saint can only talk about the way he has attained the lord, he cannot be the mediator.


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## dalbirk (Mar 2, 2009)

*Re: Who is a Saint and How to Recognise him*

*Here is an interesting article I came across , as it is in Punjabi , I'm translating it in English . Kindly forgive my mistakes .*

*Satguru Sant Miley Saant(i) Paiyey*
*By- S.Davinder Singh ‘Kharar ‘ Ph-0091-160-2283756.*

*Not understanding the difference between a real & fake is human being’s extreme folly & ignorance . Just as brass is presented as gold & glass is presented as diamond by con-men , similarly telling themselves as Real Sants through their employees & followers & thus fleecing innocent people mental , physical , economical & spiritual lives is the trade of fake & hypocrite saints/sadhus . To avoid these , the real sant(saint ) must be found out of answers of these questions :*

*Questions:*

*From Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Guru Gobind Singh Ji (1469-1708 )’s period tell the name any such Gursikh to whose name ‘Sant’ word was prefixed .*
*2. From the time of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur to Maharaja Ranjit Singh (1708-1839 ) time tell the name of any Gursikh to whose name the word ‘Sant’ was prefixed .*
*Which Gursikhs of Gurus were honoured by Guru Sahiban with the title ‘Sant’ ? Tell their names , year & also places ?*
*It is often said that Sants makes one Recite Naam(name of God ) . Tell from Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Guru Gobind Singh Ji which Sants used to make Recite Naam ?*
*At the time of delivering Guruship to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji **which Sants were **authorized make Recite Naam to Sikhs , tell their names ?*
*The so-called Sants who call themselves Sants , who made them Sants & who authorized them to to do so ?*
*In Sikhism there is prohibition of worshipping person ( Dehdharis) but if some Dehdhari calls himself Sant or makes his followers call him Sant then what are they ?*
*Tell the name of Real Sant according to Gurbani ?*
*In Gurbani whereas ‘Sant’ word is used for Guru, God & Gursikhs , then it has been used at some places for con-Sants ( The thugs of Benaras ) . *

*Therefore in Gurbani for four meanings , the word Sant has been used . The main reason for mistaking Sant word is due to non-understanding of ‘Gurbani Grammer’ . In Gurbani each single word can be seen in different shapes . Like –Ghar(u) , Ghar & Ghar(i) all three are pronounced same way as Ghar . The maatras affixed are not meaningless but they have some meanings too. *
*See the mention of Sant word in Gurbani :*
*Guru-Sant ( Sant word for Guru )*
*1 *ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁਸੰਤੁਮਿਲੈਸਾਂਤਿਪਾਈਐ॥ਕਿਲਵਿਖਦੁਖਕਾਟੇਸਭਿਦੂਰਿ॥ (1198 )
*PAGE 1198 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).*

*2 . *॥ਗੁਰੁਸੰਤੁਪਾਇਆਪ੍ਰਭੁਧਿਆਇਆਸਗਲਇਛਾਪੁੰਨੀਆ॥ (779 )

*PAGE 779 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).*

*In these Gurbani Orders the words Satguru Sant(u) & Guru Sant(u) word are carrying (u) in the end but these do not come in pronounciation . This (u) is not extra . In adding (u) in the end points to One Sant or Guru-Being . Thus this word has become singular word .*
*Satguru Sant(u) & Guru Sant(u) word has not come for many persons but Singular word Satguru Sant(u) & Guru Sant(u) has come for ONE GURU only . The meaning of first order is that when we meet Satguru then we get spiritual peace . Satguru removes all the sorrows of humans .*
*The meaning of second order is that who have met Satguru they have started remembering the Name of God . All their wishes have started to come true .*
*God-Sant( Sant word for God )*
॥੧॥ਰਹਾਉ॥ਭਾਗੁਹੋਆਗੁਰਿਸੰਤੁਮਿਲਾਇਆ॥ਪ੍ਰਭੁਅਬਿਨਾਸੀਘਰਮਹਿਪਾਇਆ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ96-97}
*http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0096.html*
*In this line at the end of Gur(i) word (i) is affixed to it .& at the end of Sant(u) word (u) is affixed to T . The alphabets (i) & (u) do not come in **pronounciation . Here Gur(i) word means Through Guru . Sant(u) word is singular word which means God because God is One .*
*This Order means that Through Guru I have meant Sant which Means I have met God through Guru .*


*Contd...*


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## spnadmin (Mar 2, 2009)

*Re: Who is a Saint and How to Recognise him*

WoW!!:happy:


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## Astroboy (Mar 2, 2009)

> You are the ones who are claiming, who are shouting aggressively, that after guru gobind there can be no enlightened person. You are claiming this just because your tradition says so. And tradition is something that is passed on, and on and on. And when something is passed on and on, it loses its original nature, it loses its authenticity, and the essential part is always faded away.


Sadhu Ji,

It is apparent that you do not belong to mainstream Sikhism as your tradition may be different. I respect that and you're welcomed to this forum to exchange your views. Nobody is shouting here, just sharing. 



> Because different people make out different meanings of what is said, they add their own views on it, they make different conclusions according to their own understanding, and then they pass it on further, and then same happens again.
> If you are believing a tradition, then you are believing something that has been molded, then remolded, then reshaped, by many people who were not of the calibre of guru gobind singh ji.


Sadhu Ji,

What you've stated here can be viewed in another way. For example, I may understand your comments to mean that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji's banis of various Bhagats have not been altered but in other paths who do follow these Bhagats, we do find the banis tempered with from time to time, until it has lost their original meanings. 
If anyone is in doubt about the original banis, then delve into the Sri Guru Granth Sahib. In Punjabi, it is said: Jo Prabh Ko Melbo Chahai, Khoj Shabad mein Leh.


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## sadhu (Mar 2, 2009)

at namjap
First of all i love your name, its beautiful.



> It is apparent that you do not belong to mainstream Sikhism as your tradition may be different. I respect that and you're welcomed to this forum to exchange your views. Nobody is shouting here, just sharing.


 
I dont belong to a different tradition, infact i dont belong to any tradition, i tend to stay away from traditions, and when i said shouting it was not shouting in the real sense, and i am not specifically talking about the people in the forum, but anybody who is irrational about sikhism. 
You are true when you say that gurbani is very original, and one should look into it, when in doubt.


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## dalbirk (Mar 2, 2009)

*Gursikh -Sant (Sant word for Group of Gursikhs or all Gursikhs ):*
*In Gurbani wherever Sant word has appeared with *
*, it has also appeared withoutin Plural Form .which has been used for Such group of Gursikhs or whole Sikhs who gather in Sangat Form & sing the praise of Lord God . like :*
*Sant-Sajan , Sant Bhagat , Sant-jana**, **Sant , Sant-Mandal,Sadh jan , Sant(u)h* *,Sant Piyaraoh* ,Sant-Janeh(u) etc .All these words are symbols of Plural-word . Here no particular Sikh has been addressed to .
*Con-Sant( Banaras Ke Thug ):*
Fake & hypocrite people who r attached from inside with Falsehood , Deciet , Conciet & from outer pose as Sant(Religious ) . They wear a certain type of robes , keep a bead string in hands , around neck & doing false meditation , fleecing pople . Gurbani has termed such fake & hypocrite Sants as Banaras ke Thug :
1. ਹਿਰਦੈਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਕੈਕਪਟੁਵਸੈਬਾਹਰਹੁਸੰਤਕਹਾਹਿ॥ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾਮੂਲਿਨਚੁਕਈਅੰਤਿਗਏਪਛੁਤਾਹਿ॥੨॥ (491)
*http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0491.html*
*2. *॥ਗਲੀਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਜਪਮਾਲੀਆਲੋਟੇਹਥਿਨਿਬਗ॥ਓਇਹਰਿਕੇਸੰਤਨਆਖੀਅਹਿਬਾਨਾਰਸਿਕੇਠਗ (pg476 )
*http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0476.html*
*Let us find out those Gursikhs from Guru history those great Gursikhs to whose names Sant word has been pre-fixed .*
*From the time of Guru nanak Dev Ji to Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s time great Gursikhs r as follows :*
*Bhai Mardana Ji , Baba Budha Ji , Bhai Lehna Ji , Bhai Jetha Ji , Bhai Gurdass Ji, Bhai Dyala Ji , Bhai mati Dass Ji , Bhai Sati Dass Ji , Bhai Jaita Ji , Bhai Bachittar Singh Ji , Bhai Nand lal Ji , Bhai Mani Singh Ji , Baba Deep Singh Ji , Baba Banda Singh Bahadur ji .*
*Panj Piyaras :*
*Bhai Daya Singh Ji , Bhai Dharam Singh Ji , Bhai Himmat Singh Ji , Bhai Mohkam Singh Ji & Bhai Sahib Singh Ji .*
*Four Sahibzadas :*
*Baba Ajit Singh Ji , Baba Jujhar Singh Ji , Baba Zorawar singh Ji & Baba fateh Singh Ji . *
*From Baba Banda Singh Bahadur to Maharaja Ranjit Singh’s time also various Gursikhs have been there who sacrificed a lot for the Panth . None of them prefixed the word Sant before their names . From the beginning till now these great Gursikhs are remembered with the word Bhai or Baba . Seeing Guru history we come to know that for Gursikhs Guru was everything .*
*We cannot find the word Sant fixed before the names of old Gursikhs but nowadays these is a flood of Sants . From where did these Sants came ? Who made them Sants ? What is their motive ? Each & every Gursikh must be aware of these people .*
*After the establishment of British rule in Punjab , the British took the administration of Gurudwaras in their hands . To use Gurudwaras for their benefit they installed Pujaris ( Priests ) & mahants . These Mahants did a lot of damage to Sikh religion . Their deeds are well known among the Sikhs . *
*The Gursikhs freed Nanakana Sahib & other Gurudwaras after a lot of sacrifices . When these Gurudwaras were freed from Mahants & priests then a new Class ( appearance ) came into being . FROM MAHANTS WERE BORN SANTS . these self-made Sants started getting Human ( Dehdhari ) worship from Sikhs community & started using the worship money for their own self-gratification . This is the real background of so-called Sants/Sadha .*
*Now question arises who is the real Sant ? Whose shelter Gurbani asks us to go in . The answer to this question is also obtained from Gurbani only . Let us understand the signs of Gurbani . For walking on the path of spirituality *

*one extremely needs a True Guru . Without a True Guru because :*

ਜੇਸਉਚੰਦਾਉਗਵਹਿਸੂਰਜਚੜਹਿਹਜਾਰ॥ਏਤੇਚਾਨਣਹੋਦਿਆਂਗੁਰਬਿਨੁਘੋਰਅੰਧਾਰ॥੨॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 463}
*http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0463.html*
*2.* ਬਿਨੁਗੁਰਨਾਮੁਨਪਾਇਆਜਾਇ॥ 
{ਪੰਨਾ114-115}
*http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0114.html*
3. ਗੁਰਬਿਨੁਘੋਰੁਅੰਧਾਰੁਗੁਰੂਬਿਨੁਸਮਝਨਆਵੈ॥ਗੁਰਬਿ
ਨੁਸੁਰਤਿਨਸਿਧਿਗੁਰੂਬਿਨੁਮੁਕਤਿਨਪਾਵੈ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ1399}
*http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/1399.html*
4. *ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਨਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਇ ॥*{ਪੰਨਾ650}
*http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0650.html*
5. ਗੁਰਬਿਨੁਗਿਆਨੁਨਪਾਈਐਬਿਖਿਆਦੂਜਾਸਾਦੁ{ਪੰਨਾ61-62}
*http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0061.html*
6. ਬਿਨੁਗੁਰਪ੍ਰੀਤਿਨਊਪਜੈਹਉਮੈਮੈਲੁਨਜਾਇ{ਪੰਨਾ60}
*http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0060.html*
7. ਗਿਆਨੀਗੁਰਬਿਨੁਭਗਤਿਨਹੋਈ{ਪੰਨਾ732}
*http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0732.html*
8. ਬਿਨੁਸਤਿਗੁਰਕਿਨੈਨਪਾਇਓਬਿਨੁਸਤਿਗੁਰਕਿਨੈਨਪਾਇਆ॥ਸਤਿਗੁਰਵਿਚਿਆਪੁਰਖਿਓਨੁਕਰਿਪਰਗਟੁਆਖਿਸੁਣਾਇਆ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ466}
*http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0466.html*
*All these orders of Gurbani teach a Sikh that he does not need to look elsewhere except the Guru . Sikh’s Guru is complete & all-enabling . If in olden times Guru was everything for Gursikhs & they did not need any Sant/Sadh at that time then even today why should Guru’s Sikhs need any other Sadh/Sant except Sri Guru Garnth Sahib Ji? Guru Gobind Singh Ji attached Sikhs only to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji , not at all to any other Dehdhari Sadh/Sant or Dehdhari Guru . Remember In Sikh religion worshipping a Personal /Dehdhari Guru is strictly prohibted .*
*O Sikhs of the Guru , like ancestral Sikhs we should also keep full faith in our Guru . If we do not do this , we will be doing a grave crime of Guru’s criticism :*
*1.* ਜਿਨਾਗੁਰੁਗੋਪਿਆਆਪਣਾਤੇਨਰਬੁਰਿਆਰੀ॥ਹਰਿਜੀਉਤਿਨਕਾਦਰਸਨੁਨਾਕਰਹੁਪਾਪਿਸਟਹਤਿਆਰੀ॥(651)
*http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0651.html*
*2.* ਜਿਨਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਪਿਆ ਆਪਣਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਠਉਰ ਨ ਠਾਉ ॥ ਹਲਤੁ ਪਲਤੁ ਦੋਵੈ ਗਏ ਦਰਗਹ ਨਾਹੀ ਥਾਉ ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 314}
http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0314.html
In the end it is a request in front of all Sikhs that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the only real Guru Sant of the Sikhs , whosoever shall come in the shelter of this Guru-Sant he/she shall be surely saved . He/she shall easily cross this world ocean living in equipoise .
So all dear Gursikhs , Sikhs do not require to wander before any body else . If each & every human being adopts Gurbani as the baisis of his life then humanity can be saved from this fleecing in the name of religion .Remember ,by getting out of ignorance is the only symbol of being human & getting others out of ignorance is the true service of mankind .
Davinder Singh
Dashmesh Nagar ,Kharar .
This article can be read at: http://www.sikhmissionarycollege.org/literature.asp


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## spnadmin (Mar 2, 2009)

_+In the end it is a request in front of all Sikhs that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the only real Guru Sant of the Sikhs , whosoever shall come in the shelter of this Guru-Sant he/she shall be surely saved . He/she shall easily cross this world ocean living in equipoise .
So all dear Gursikhs , Sikhs do not require to wander before any body else . If each & every human being adopts Gurbani as the baisis of his life then humanity can be saved from this fleecing in  the name of religion .Remember ,by getting out of ignorance is the only symbol of being human & getting others out of ignorance is the true service of mankind ._ 

 
Dalbirk ji -- I am envious of your language abilities. But at the same time very thankful to you for doing this hard seva. :happy:


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## Tejwant Singh (Mar 2, 2009)

Words like Sants, Bhagats, Brahmagyanis etc etc which are in SGGS  are used as adjectives not as nouns- titles. That is why our Gurus explain what attributes- qualities make these people what they are. Once they stop acting accordingly then they cease being what they were by showing their attributes by deeds and actions.These are NOT titles. 

Tejwant SIngh


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## spnadmin (Mar 2, 2009)

VaheguruSeekr ji

Do you think the meaning of Brahmgyani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib is most clear in Sukhmani Sahib?


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## kuldeepsb5 (Mar 10, 2010)

ਕਬੀਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਉ ਦੁਇ ਭਲੇ ਏਕੁ ਸੰਤੁ ਇਕੁ ਰਾਮੁ ॥ 
kabeer saeva ko dhue bhalae eaek santh eik ram ||
Kabeer, it is good to perform selfless service for two - the Saint and  the Lord.
  ਰਾਮੁ ਜੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕੋ ਸੰਤੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ਨਾਮੁ ॥੧੬੪॥ 
Ram ju data mukate ko sant japavai nam ||164||
The Lord is the Giver of liberation, and the Saint inspires us to chant  the Naam. ||164||

Here sANT means GURU .For further clarification please read the foot  note on page 302 of AMRIT KIRTAN POTHI as under:-
"Gurbani vich ek vachan(singular form) roop vich SANT pad (word)keval  GURU laee aya he, atte jithhe kithhe bahu vachan (plural form ) vich SANT word di warton kiti  gayee he, othhe Guru kesanmukhiNaam Rang Ras Ratte Gursikhan de samooh (group)di taraf ishara  he, par kaee thaaeen
 bahu vachan satikaar vajon Satguru laee hi hai."

Here is another Shabad about SANT

ਕਾਨੜਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ 
kanarra mehala 5 (Ang 1299 Sri guru Granth Saheb ji )

  ਸੰਤਨ ਪਹਿ ਆਪਿ ਉਧਾਰਨ ਆਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
Santhan pehe aap oudhharan aeiou ||1|| rehao ||
I have come to the Saints to save myself. ||1||Pause||
  ਦਰਸਨ ਭੇਟਤ ਹੋਤ ਪੁਨੀਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਓ ॥੧॥ 
Darasan baettath hott puneeta har har manthra dhrirraeiou ||1||
Gazing upon the Blessed Vision of their Darshan, I am sanctified; they  have implanted the Mantra of the Lord, Har, Har, within me. ||1||
  ਕਾਟੇ ਰੋਗ ਭਏ ਮਨ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਅਉਖਧੁ ਖਾਇਓ ॥੨॥ 
Kattae rog bheae man niramal har har aoukhadhh khaeiou ||2||
The disease has been eradicated, and my mind has become immaculate. I  have taken the healing medicine of the Lord, Har, Har. ||2||
  ਅਸਥਿਤ ਭਏ ਬਸੇ ਸੁਖ ਥਾਨਾ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਕਤਹੂ ਧਾਇਓ ॥੩॥ 
Asathhith bheae basae sukh thhana bahur n kathehoo dhhaeiou ||3||
I have become steady and stable, and I dwell in the home of peace. I  shall never again wander anywhere. ||3||
  ਸੰਤ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਤਰੇ ਕੁਲ ਲੋਗਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਪਤ ਨ ਮਾਇਓ ॥੪॥੭॥ 
Santh prasadh tarae kul loga naanak lipat na maeiou ||4||7||
By the Grace of the Saints, the people and all their generations are  saved; O Nanak, they are not engrossed in Maya. ||4||7||
Here the qualities mentioned ,can not be found in a human being but in  Satguru only.
Compare following:-
 (i) " Sant anantehe anter naahi"
 (ii)" Gur Parmeshar eko Jaan"
 (iii) "Hamro bhartaa bado bibeki ,Aphe Sant kahaavehe"
 From above qutes it is evident that there is no difference between SANT  ,GURU and
PARMESHAR /AKAALPURAKH. we all agree on the point that GURU or SATGURU  is the
another converted roop of Akaal Purakh but we ,if agree that human being  may be Sant,
can not agree on the point that SANT is the roop of SATGURU or AKAAL  PURAKH because
Gurbani says :-
 "Har jesa Purakh na labhaee sabh dekheya jagat me tole"
However there are so many great Gursikhs with whom we add the word SANT.
     We before using this word must ensure wheather the person to whom
we are going to call SANT ,is a tyagi of Maaya (and does not have heavy  Bank balance)
like GURU GOBIND sINGH JI who , before leaving ANANDPUR SAHIB ordered to  throw all the 
money and jewellery etc, in river Satlaj. He must not be affectionative  to himself and his family
(being guarded by armed body guards ) and should be fearless. He should  not have any ill feeling
within his mind, brain and heart about any person or religion or any  sector of society and must 
possess AMIYE DRISHTI like:-
"Hindu O Turak kou Rafazi Imam Saafi, Manas ki jaat sabe eke  pehechanbo."
chuk khima ,
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh


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