# How To Change One's Destiny



## singhbj (Jan 4, 2016)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Guru Sahib Ji & destiny

One summer when Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj was travelling, he reached a garden where he camped for the day. It so happened that the king's pir (spiritual advisor), was also camping at the same place. 

Thus the Pir had a chance to Satguru Ji. The pir called on Maharaj, who seated him with due courtesy by his side. There was a town nearby where a number of Sikhs of Guru Ji lived. When they heard of Maharaj's arrival at the garden, they all flocked to see the king of kings and the saint of saints with offerings of clothes, arms and money, besides food. The offerings were formally dedicated to Guru Ji by his attendants, who also prayed in their behalf for his blessings, success in temporal pursuits, protection from evil, and the boon of Naam. 

The pir watched the proceedings for the whole day, and then put this question to Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, "In our scriptures it is said that whatever is destined, is bound to happen. Something else can happen, only if what has been done previously is wrong. Since what has been done, cannot be wrong, there is no scope for anything else happening. So, when the Sikhs pray before you for success in their endeavours, what do they pray for, since nothing else can happen except what is destined?" 

After hearing the pir's question Maharaj took out his seal. He applied ink to the seal and stamped it on a piece of paper. 

"Pir ji, this is the answer to your question," replied Guru Ji. "Kindly explain this to me," said the pir. 

"The letters on the seal were already there. These have not been written now. But the writer knew that when the seal bows its head to touch the paper, the reverse letters will become straight and get stamped on it. Similarly, the Creator has made this provision in one's destiny, so that when one appear before the Guru in humility and performs service, his adverse destiny is corrected. All his problems are solved. This reversal is as per destiny, and not otherwise. Thus, whatever has been said in your scriptures is correct. Nothing less and nothing more." At this answer the pir was very happy. 

Bhull chuk maaf !

Source: Tuhi Tuhi Tera Tera: 11/01/2005 - 12/01/2005

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


----------



## Harry Haller (Jan 5, 2016)

singhbj said:


> Similarly, the Creator has made this provision in one's destiny, so that when one appear before the Guru in humility and performs service, his adverse destiny is corrected. All his problems are solved.



that is quite a carrot, what about just performing service for the hell of it?


----------



## chazSingh (Jan 5, 2016)

harry haller said:


> that is quite a carrot, what about just performing service for the hell of it?



i currently design and maintain a few websites for local companies...if they want anything changing...only i hold the power to do so. or i can pass that power onto someone else to apply those changes...

i guess everything has some sort of path \ structure...is god\creation any different?

of course we can ask for a new job, a new car, passing our exams from Guru Ji...as per our own actions we will only receive what we have sowed in the past. but when we've had enough of just going around in circles in creation...same old...work rest and play...only Guru Ji has the power to guide us towards the truth....and the universe...waheguru will conspire to help us awaken to that truth...

happens to us all eventually...my nephews are often immersed in their computer games...but at some point they get bored and realize their house has a front door and a whole world to explore...

that is all we're doing....we can keep aspiring to, asking wahegurus help to get a new car, job etc in the game...but in the end, we're still locked into the Game as a result of those unfulfilled desires...

or we can listen to what waheguru is saying...that there is a hell of a lot more to this whole shebang than we currently think and know of...if interested, guaranteed he will allow us to know of the complete truth...

the Truman Show...


----------



## Harry Haller (Jan 5, 2016)

chazSingh said:


> i currently design and maintain a few websites for local companies...if they want anything changing...only i hold the power to do so. or i can pass that power onto someone else to apply those changes...



this is an awful comparison, you hold no power at all, just access to certain passwords, I am sure a third rate hacker would have little problem taking away your power. 



chazSingh said:


> i guess everything has some sort of path \ structure...is god\creation any different?



I have no idea, I am just a puny human being, I have no idea how the structure of God operates, and I am deeply wary of anyone who says they know. 



chazSingh said:


> of course we can ask for a new job, a new car, passing our exams from Guru Ji


why would we do that? this seems very alien to me, it smacks of deity worship, is the God that we believe in as Sikhs some sort of Santa figure who only exists to grant our irrelevant desires?



chazSingh said:


> s per our own actions we will only receive what we have sowed in the past.



bit like being a good child all year for Christmas? Will Santa know we have been good?



chazSingh said:


> but when we've had enough of just going around in circles in creation...same old...work rest and play...only Guru Ji has the power to guide us towards the truth....and the universe...waheguru will conspire to help us awaken to that truth...


 and then what?



chazSingh said:


> or we can listen to what waheguru is saying...that there is a hell of a lot more to this whole shebang than we currently think and know of...if interested, guaranteed he will allow us to know of the complete truth...



look around you Chazji, is it not enough?


----------



## chazSingh (Jan 7, 2016)

harry haller said:


> this is an awful comparison, you hold no power at all, just access to certain passwords, I am sure a third rate hacker would have little problem taking away your power.



its not an awful example..yes a hacker can get into my website...but why would my client ask a hacker to change his website when i can do it for him? you're confusing me dude...lol
if i said only God can change ones destiny....can you find a hacker to hack into his creation? No...so why mention a hacker in the comparison? 

what i'm trying to say is...if you want something to change in creation...naturally...you find the creator and ask.




> I have no idea, I am just a puny human being, I have no idea how the structure of God operates, and I am deeply wary of anyone who says they know.



thats fine...be weary....
but there are those that believe that SGGS Ji is telling us that very fact...and there are those that are following what it says and seeing it with their own eyes (physical and spiritual eyes)



> why would we do that? this seems very alien to me, it smacks of deity worship, is the God that we believe in as Sikhs some sort of Santa figure who only exists to grant our irrelevant desires?



i'm not saying we should ask for worldly things...i'm saying that people do...
if you ask for worldly things...then of course your mind will remain in wanting to achieve those worldly things...you'll either achieve those things...or they remain unfulfilled...

or you could just want to know the truth of life...you may come to know in the end that what we see and hear and touch is all that there is....or you may come to know that there is way more...

some of the greatest explorers too that jump into the unknown...took that leap of faith...



> bit like being a good child all year for Christmas? Will Santa know we have been good?



there are rules to everything....the main one as described in SGGS ji is ... as you sow shall you reap...
now...you decide whether you want to do good for a reward...or if you want to do good because your heart tells you its the right thing to do regardless of reward...

i'm pretty sure your intention behind the action is part of the reward...if you do good because you want something in return then it may not actually reap good..







> look around you Chazji, is it not enough?



nope, its not enough....you want to know why...
because no matter what i do in my life...or where i go..or what i see...i still feel like there is something missing...the things i do are not fulfilling me. buying a car..a new house...going on various holidays...even charity work...something is still missing...

now Guru Ji is telling me there is something more to this whole creation...and Guru Ji is wanting me to find out...to seek it...to search for it...and it's pretty crazy when you realize that Guru Ji is telling you the truth...

its like playing a computer game and someone at school tells you there is a bonus level...
you may be content with just playing the levels you have access to...and you may not even believe there is a bonus level...
but some people may just try and find it....and you never know...it may actually exist


----------



## Harry Haller (Jan 7, 2016)

chazSingh said:


> its not an awful example..yes a hacker can get into my website



your suggesting one can hack into Creator? unauthorised entry?



chazSingh said:


> but why would my client ask a hacker to change his website when i can do it for him?


maybe he has fallen out with you! happens all the time.



chazSingh said:


> if i said only God can change ones destiny....can you find a hacker to hack into his creation? No...so why mention a hacker in the comparison?


err your arguing my point, I appreciate the gesture, but I'm doing ok on my own


chazSingh said:


> what i'm trying to say is...if you want something to change in creation...naturally...you find the creator and ask.



do you? I never have, I tend to just get on and do it myself, Creator created me, gave me a brain, is enough.



chazSingh said:


> thats fine...be weary....



I am, weary of being wary, but what other way is there when everyone professes to know the answers, but no one seems able to answer simple questions.



chazSingh said:


> i'm not saying we should ask for worldly things...i'm saying that people do...



I am saying we should not ask for anything, wordly or otherwise, well that's how I live anyway.



chazSingh said:


> or you could just want to know the truth of life...



not much then



chazSingh said:


> You may come to know in the end that what we see and hear and touch is all that there is....or you may come to know that there is way more...



you live your life how you wish, that is your right, but I don't live on maybe's


chazSingh said:


> some of the greatest explorers too that jump into the unknown...took that leap of faith...



they did that to further the knowledge of mankind, yours is slightly more selfish



chazSingh said:


> there are rules to everything....the main one as described in SGGS ji is ... as you sow shall you reap...



there are no rules, only facts, your saying that the main theme of the SGGS is karma?



chazSingh said:


> now...you decide whether you want to do good for a reward...or if you want to do good because your heart tells you its the right thing to do regardless of reward...



The last time I looked in the mirror, I did not see a Seal looking back at me, I make my own rewards, I don't clap for fish.



chazSingh said:


> i'm pretty sure your intention behind the action is part of the reward...if you do good because you want something in return then it may not actually reap good..



My action is normally weary and an act of responsibility, as a member of creation, not with love in my heart and a smile on my face, I just get on with what needs to be done, and then go, the departure is the best bit..



chazSingh said:


> nope, its not enough....you want to know why...
> because no matter what i do in my life...or where i go..or what i see...i still feel like there is something missing...the things i do are not fulfilling me. buying a car..a new house...going on various holidays...even charity work...something is still missing...



contentment and acceptance is what you are missing


chazSingh said:


> now Guru Ji is telling me there is something more to this whole creation...


strangely Guruji is telling me that this is it, that I am his ambassador, that I represent him, that I just get on with it, and enjoy the journey and then die.



chazSingh said:


> and Guru Ji is wanting me to find out...to seek it...to search for it...and it's pretty crazy when you realize that Guru Ji is telling you the truth...



You will die not knowing the truth, as it is unable to be known and understood by mere mortals like you and me, that makes me sad, I hope are not on your deathbed gazing at the beauty of Creation that you shunned for your search



chazSingh said:


> its like playing a computer game and someone at school tells you there is a bonus level...
> you may be content with just playing the levels you have access to...and you may not even believe there is a bonus level...
> but some people may just try and find it....and you never know...it may actually exist



and then my friend, the nature of the game is to buy another game, and play that, I think you will never finish this game, I think it will trap you forever, and when the end comes, you will wish you had lived


----------



## chazSingh (Jan 8, 2016)

harry haller said:


> your suggesting one can hack into Creator? unauthorised entry?



that's not what i said...read again...confused.com 





> do you? I never have, I tend to just get on and do it myself, Creator created me, gave me a brain, is enough.



i don;t ask for anything to change other than for Waheguru to inspire me to seek the truth...afterall He is in our hearts...as per SGGS ji...and proved correct if you seek.



> I am, weary of being wary, but what other way is there when everyone professes to know the answers, but no one seems able to answer simple questions.



don't listen to them...find it yourself...then you'll know for sure...and then inspire others to also seek it..
otherwise continue as you are...quite simple..

what simple questions do you have?



> I am saying we should not ask for anything, wordly or otherwise, well that's how I live anyway.



i guess it noble to seek the truth...if you think what you see hear and touch is not the whole truth...
if you think it is the whole truth, then continue as you are...



> you live your life how you wish, that is your right, but I don't live on maybe's



sometimes you discover things by accident....i.e. apple falls on your head...
otherwise...discoveries are made initially with a ...'maybe'...it makes us seek distant lands...planets...cures...creatures...etc etc

is that so crazy?



> they did that to further the knowledge of mankind, yours is slightly more selfish



seems selfish...the results though affect everyone around me...
if i see god within me...maybe genuinely i will see god in everyone and everything else...rather than just saying it,



> there are no rules, only facts, your saying that the main theme of the SGGS is karma?



call it whatever you want...it's not the main theme..its just telling you a rule of the show...you make your own destiny...as you sow shall you reap...



> The last time I looked in the mirror, I did not see a Seal looking back at me, I make my own rewards, I don't clap for fish.



no one is asking you to ask for anything...neither is Guru ji...lol
but wanting to know the truth...well don;t we all want to know the truth when a murder is committed, when an event happens, when someone lies to you...knowing the truth is part of life...hence why we look up to the stars and want to know whey this whole thing is here..






> contentment and acceptance is what you are missing



in my material existence...i feel quite content...
i just one day had a feeling this (life) was not all it....thankfully my feeling was proved correct...i'm glad i looked deeper, now my lifeand feelings towards it have changed big time...for the better



> strangely Guruji is telling me that this is it, that I am his ambassador, that I represent him, that I just get on with it, and enjoy the journey and then die.



i never quite liked thinking...'i just die' ... again thankfully i didnt accept that...and seeked answers...got the answers to that also....you just have to seek...



> You will die not knowing the truth, as it is unable to be known and understood by mere mortals like you and me, that makes me sad, I hope are not on your deathbed gazing at the beauty of Creation that you shunned for your search



the problem is you think you are mortal...yes your body is....but you aren't....you limit yourself to that...its great fun finding this all out....it blew my mind away when it came to me..

you see...our ego has made us think...this is it...we are just this little man or woman...and have no other possibilities...but the possibilities are endless....just like waheguru....we are made of the same stuff...droplets of water from the ocean..




> and then my friend, the nature of the game is to buy another game, and play that, I think you will never finish this game, I think it will trap you forever, and when the end comes, you will wish you had lived



you are maybe correct...there are so many bonus levels...
its just great to know for sure now...that i won't ever die...that i am part of something truly spectacular, that everything i've been through and still going through ultimately leads me to this realization..
will do with you also...maybe by a apple hitting your head scenario...or you'll seek it...in truth you are seeking it...we all are...its the flow of the ocean...the hukam...waheguru learning about Himself through himself...


----------



## Inderjeet Kaur (Jan 8, 2016)

This is my take on fate and destiny.








I admit, I do not call in the One on this. My reason is simple. I believe in using what I have, what I have been given and what I have developed first, before I ask for the Creator to do it for me. I ask my Creator for things like courage, strength and endurance, ther things I need to achieve my destiny.


----------



## Harry Haller (Jan 9, 2016)

chazSingh said:


> i don;t ask for anything to change other than for Waheguru to inspire me to seek the truth...afterall He is in our hearts...as per SGGS ji...and proved correct if you seek.



do you happen to know anyone personally who has found this truth?
if not, do you know of anyone who has found this truth?



chazSingh said:


> don't listen to them.



I don't



chazSingh said:


> .find it yourself..


I am



chazSingh said:


> .then you'll know for sure.


how? how can you know anything for sure?



chazSingh said:


> .and then inspire others to also seek it..


why would you do that? surely anyone who wishes to seek it will, it is human nature that people will do what they wish when they want, surely it would be better to inspire everyone and anyone regardless?


chazSingh said:


> what simple questions do you have?



2 are above, if you could kindly answer them I would be grateful, lets run with that for starters, then we can move on to the more heavy stuff, although, I must caution you that answers need to be succinct and straightforward, not some half rate PR drivel. 



chazSingh said:


> i guess it noble to seek the truth...if you think what you see hear and touch is not the whole truth...


is this why you do it, to be noble?



chazSingh said:


> if you think it is the whole truth, then continue as you are...



ahhh, you see like you, I do not think this is the whole truth either, however, the difference is, you care, I don't. 



chazSingh said:


> sometimes you discover things by accident....i.e. apple falls on your head...
> otherwise...discoveries are made initially with a ...'maybe'...it makes us seek distant lands...planets...cures...creatures...etc etc
> 
> is that so crazy?


all these discoveries helped mankind, how is your discovery of the truth going to help mankind? 

Given that any discovery is going to be mentally exclusive to you, how can you prove it? You may say you do not care to prove it, it is enough that you know, but again, who does it help?



chazSingh said:


> seems selfish...the results though affect everyone around me...
> if i see god within me...maybe genuinely i will see god in everyone and everything else...rather than just saying it,



I already see god in everyone and everything else rather than just saying it, its not that hard, I do not struggle with it, why do you?



chazSingh said:


> call it whatever you want...it's not the main theme..its just telling you a rule of the show...you make your own destiny...as you sow shall you reap...



well I disagree with your rule of the show, your saying karma is big, I am saying it is irrelevant and not even the backing singer never mind the show.



chazSingh said:


> you make your own destiny...as you sow shall you reap...


ok important question coming up, is that not a contradiction? you often say that our destinies are held by god, now your saying its held by us, which is it?



chazSingh said:


> no one is asking you to ask for anything...neither is Guru ji...lol


oh? I thought he wanted my head, I thought that was a central facet of Sikhism, your saying it is not, and that Guruji now does not want my head? which is it?



chazSingh said:


> but wanting to know the truth...well don;t we all want to know the truth when a murder is committed,


 err no, are you one of those people that slow down for traffic accidents? maybe you want to know the truth about everything, good luck with that one, sounds more like being nosy


chazSingh said:


> when an event happens, when someone lies to you...knowing the truth is part of life...hence why we look up to the stars and want to know whey this whole thing is here..



People lie to me all the time... perception makes it easy to know when. 
why would you look up to the stars? is that an abrahamic heaven thing?


chazSingh said:


> in my material existence...i feel quite content...
> i just one day had a feeling this (life) was not all it....thankfully my feeling was proved correct...i'm glad i looked deeper, now my lifeand feelings towards it have changed big time...for the better



how has it affected you? I see no huge change in your writing



chazSingh said:


> i never quite liked thinking...'i just die' ... again thankfully i didnt accept that...and seeked answers...got the answers to that also....you just have to seek...



could you explain how you got these answers? did someone physically talk to you? was it a mental thing? a message in a bottle?



chazSingh said:


> the problem is you think you are mortal...yes your body is....but you aren't....you limit yourself to that...its great fun finding this all out....it blew my mind away when it came to me..



can you explain this? your telling me that something blew your mind away when you realised that you were immortal, can you describe this for me please? How did you realise this? was it another mental thing? can I assume that all these relevations are god talking directly to you that you are unable to share with us?



chazSingh said:


> you see...


your talking with authority here, where does this authority come from? have you done some sort of 2 year course that gives you this authority?


chazSingh said:


> our ego has made us think...this is it...we are just this little man or woman...and have no other possibilities...but the possibilities are endless.


again, what authority enables you make these statements? 


chazSingh said:


> you are maybe correct...there are so many bonus levels...
> its just great to know for sure now...that i won't ever die


that's all you want? to know that you won't ever die? sounds a bit childish to me. 


chazSingh said:


> will do with you also...maybe by a apple hitting your head scenario...or you'll seek it...in truth you are seeking it...we all are...its the flow of the ocean...the hukam...waheguru learning about Himself through himself...



this does not make sense,  I don't mind reading posts that are put together like a very bad Gyani doing a very bad katha, but I do expect better of someone like you, please explain "waheguru learning about Himself through himself"

there you go, some simple questions for you


----------



## Jag279 (Jan 9, 2016)

singhbj said:


> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
> Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
> 
> Guru Sahib Ji & destiny
> ...





How to change destiny?
One line answer - kar kar kar na (used 3 times for thoughts words and actions) likh lae jaye...aapay beej aapay hi khaye.

How does Goes God know who is going to read this message of mine and may be change his life in some manner? 
Because he is the one writing(or wrote; because he is not bound by time, a dimension) the story of creation.


----------



## Ishna (Jan 9, 2016)

Ji, can you please translate for me?

Thank you


----------



## Ambarsaria (Jan 10, 2016)

singhbj said:


> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
> Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
> 
> Guru Sahib Ji & destiny
> ...


Most sakhis (stories/fables) do not comply with  Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. So be careful to create links between the sakhis and Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

When you pose the question how to change destiny, you are assuming that there is destiny. There is no destiny. You live the moment, the time that does not stop and per the rules of creation. You will leave a trail of your living but you do not deterministically create it and none is preordained. You can definitely create goals for your living and make an effort to achieve but nothing is guaranteed or 100% ensured.

Sat Sri Akal.


----------



## Ishna (Jan 10, 2016)

It would help to learn how "destiny" is understood in Indian philosophies, what words and phrases are used to allude to it, and then how that relates back to Gurbani.  Because the English translations throw the word "destiny" around like lollies, but there appears to be lack of a precise term for it in the Gurmukhi, so the translators appear to be interpreting a phrase to mean "destiny".  But is "destiny" the right word?

At a short glance, Gurbani does mention a lot about that which is 'written on your forehead', or 'written' in general.  I don't really know what it means, yet.


----------



## Jag279 (Jan 10, 2016)

Ishna said:


> Ji, can you please translate for me?
> 
> Thank you




Kar  kar kar (performing repeated actions through thoughts,  words and actions) we program specific meanings into our mind. They act as seeds which thus give us corresponding fruits.


----------



## Jag279 (Jan 10, 2016)

There is nothing at all in this Universe that Waheguru needs to experience. Thus our destiny is actually decided only by our perceived meanings which thus demand specific experiences and bring them to us.

If we can change the meanings,  we can also change the destiny. 

This doesn't mean that Waheguru  has no power over this.  But our power is through his mercy only. The change although seems a deviation from path of destiny but is actually already in the divine plan.


----------



## Ambarsaria (Jan 10, 2016)

Ishna said:


> It would help to learn how "destiny" is understood in Indian philosophies, what words and phrases are used to allude to it, and then how that relates back to Gurbani.  Because the English translations throw the word "destiny" around like lollies, but there appears to be lack of a precise term for it in the Gurmukhi, so the translators appear to be interpreting a phrase to mean "destiny".  But is "destiny" the right word?
> 
> At a short glance, Gurbani does mention a lot about that which is 'written on your forehead', or 'written' in general.  I don't really know what it means, yet.


Ishna ji I hope the following helps;

http://www.shabdkosh.com/pa/translate?e=Destiny&l=pa

*Destiny - meaning in Punjabi*
*Pronunciation of Destiny*
ਡੇਸ੍ਟਨੀ
*Meanings of Destiny in Punjabi*
[Hide Transliteration]
*noun *

ਹੋਣੀ [hōṇī]
ਲੇਖ (m) [lēkha]
ਭਾਗ (m) [bhāga]
ਕਿਸਮਤ (f) [kisamata]
ਕਰਮ (m) [karama]
ਹੋਣੀ (f) [hōṇī]
ਮੁਕੱਦਰ (m) [mukadara]
ਨਸੀਬ (m) [nasība]
ਬਰਾਤ (f) [barāta]
ਭਾਣਾ (m) [bhāṇā]
ਤਕਦੀਰ (f) [takadīra]
*adjective *

ਭਾਵੀ [bhāvī]
*adverb *

ਭਾਣੇ [bhāṇē]
___________________________
*ਹੋਣੀ - meaning in English*
*Pronunciation of ਹੋਣੀ*
hōṇī
*Meanings of ਹੋਣੀ in English*
*noun *

fate (f)
destiny (f)
predestination (f)
appointed lot (f)
Destiny
I done one Punjabi to English using the same Dictionary above. You can search further and I have done what I would consider the common meaning of Destiny in Punjabi as follows:

*ਤਕਦੀਰ - meaning in English*
*Pronunciation of ਤਕਦੀਰ*
takadīra
*Meanings of ਤਕਦੀਰ in English*
*noun *

fate (f)
destiny (f)
luck (f)
lot (f)
stars (f)
Take care,

Sat Sri Akal.


----------



## Ishna (Jan 10, 2016)

Thank you @Ambarsaria  Ji

When I get home from work, I'll see if these words (or a variant of them) appears in the Gurbani - although it will be challenging due to the languages used.

More commonly in Gurbani, when regard to destiny, we read about things being written, often on one's forehead.  What is this expression all about?


----------



## Ambarsaria (Jan 10, 2016)

Ishna said:


> Thank you @Ambarsaria  Ji
> 
> When I get home from work, I'll see if these words (or a variant of them) appears in the Gurbani - although it will be challenging due to the languages used.
> 
> More commonly in Gurbani, when regard to destiny, we read about things being written, often on one's forehead.  What is this expression all about?


From what I recall there are sayings like that. For example, I am not totally sure perhaps someone correct it if I am wrong;

"Mathey di lakir kadi nahin mitdi/The line on your forehead cannot be erased".

I believe the reference here is the cultural belief of the pre-ordained or fate being permanently ascribed on our foreheads. Guru ji may have used it as a way to teach those who believed in such and equally to describe that we do not control everything.

Just as Sikhs do not have relationship to lines on our hands/palmistry, the lines on the forehead should be treated the same way. Just my two cents.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS:  We know Botox has changed all kinds of things in terms of lines on people's faces.


----------



## Ishna (Jan 10, 2016)

Last few days I've been contemplating deeply on the recurring theme of "likh" in Gurbani. One of my favourite shabads to contemplate at the moment is along the lines of making your body the paper, and the mind the pen. And so many thoughts about the "ever flowing pen of Akaal Sahib".


----------



## Ishna (Jan 10, 2016)

Aha!  I'm coming full circle on myself:  http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/threads/fate-destiny-pre-destination-likhia.38900/

:-D


----------



## chazSingh (Jan 11, 2016)

harry haller said:


> do you happen to know anyone personally who has found this truth?
> if not, do you know of anyone who has found this truth?
> 
> 
> ...



i know many people that are experiencing the truth...or elements of it, as it seems to be vast, infinite...

inspiration is a normal part of life...happens in all walks of life...it can be very positive..

just as you sit on a rollercoaster and have a new experience...you're experience of the world within will take place in the same way...i.e. you are fully conscious through the whole thing...alive and kicking.,
no drug like experiences...no trance like states...your conscious...

God experiencing Himself through his creation...
I say that because SGGS Ji says all there is only 'God'....so who am i...who are you....what is the tree in my garden...the water in the sea...the wind that flows past me...the sun that shines...the shabad that vibrates within?
its all waheguru...so what is having the experience of life through all these creatures?

Ego was designed by waheguru to make 'one' (himself) appear as many...but there is really only one..Waheguru..
Ego is so powerful...that when the perceived seperated state appears...the 'many' question the existence of the 'one' ... how crazy is that? lol....where the truth is ..there is only one...


----------



## chazSingh (Jan 11, 2016)

Jag279 said:


> There is nothing at all in this Universe that Waheguru needs to experience. Thus our destiny is actually decided only by our perceived meanings which thus demand specific experiences and bring them to us.
> 
> If we can change the meanings,  we can also change the destiny.
> 
> This doesn't mean that Waheguru  has no power over this.  But our power is through his mercy only. The change although seems a deviation from path of destiny but is actually already in the divine plan.



this is the amazing thing...we think destiny is being changed...but the new path was always in the original path \ plan for us all along...


----------



## Harry Haller (Jan 11, 2016)

chazSingh said:


> i know many people that are experiencing the truth...or elements of it, as it seems to be vast, infinite...
> 
> inspiration is a normal part of life...happens in all walks of life...it can be very positive..
> 
> ...



do you remember the bit about simple questions, I will repeat it if you wish, 


do you happen to know anyone personally who has found this truth?
if not, do you know of anyone who has found this truth?
any chance of a simple answer, yes or no will suffice


----------



## chazSingh (Jan 12, 2016)

harry haller said:


> do you remember the bit about simple questions, I will repeat it if you wish,
> 
> 
> do you happen to know anyone personally who has found this truth?
> ...



yes.


----------



## Harry Haller (Jan 12, 2016)

excellent, we will take baby steps, now is it the first statement, ie, do you know them personally, or is it the second?


----------



## chazSingh (Jan 14, 2016)

harry haller said:


> excellent, we will take baby steps, now is it the first statement, ie, do you know them personally, or is it the second?



there are some i know personally.....my own brother...we both try our utmost to earn our money truthfully...to share with others and to naam jap. Its great to have someone close to discuss and share experiences, positives, negatives, difficulties with.

some are close friends that i have known for years.

others are currently on this forum...and some who have left.

and last but not least, and the most important...my Guru Ji...with whom i no longer have any doubts with ... SGGS JI


in case that answer is too long for you...
*
Yes, some personally and others not so personally...*


----------



## Harry Haller (Jan 14, 2016)

chazSingh said:


> there are some i know personally.....my own brother...we both try our utmost to earn our money truthfully...to share with others and to naam jap. Its great to have someone close to discuss and share experiences, positives, negatives, difficulties with.
> 
> some are close friends that i have known for years.
> 
> ...



so just so I can get this right in my head, all these people have found the ultimate truth that you yourself are seeking for? Their journey is over, they are enlightened?


----------



## chazSingh (Jan 14, 2016)

harry haller said:


> so just so I can get this right in my head, all these people have found the ultimate truth that you yourself are seeking for? Their journey is over, they are enlightened?



if i told you that last night Roberto Firmino Scored a Goal for Liverpool FC...is that the truth? yes it is...

but it is only part of the truth....the full truth is he scored 2 goals...and so did another player....
in fact {censored}nal scored 3 as well...

all these are truths...

i've never asked anyone i know if they know the complete truth as i get the feeling the complete truth is so vast and infinite...its not something you can define, label or say "yes, i know it all"...

but many people i know, know that consciousness goes on past physcial death....that shabad can be heard within, that there are endless creations beyond creations...that time and distance hold no barriers, that there are infinite possibilities to everything....that the physcial is only one dimension that we are part of...we have access to all.

sounds crazy,,,,i don;t even know how to write these kinds of things down...
if you believe in this and want to know yourself first hand...thats great...
if not, thats great also...
good luck in whatever direction you feel you want to go my friend

God Bless


----------



## Harry Haller (Jan 14, 2016)

chazSingh said:


> nope, its not enough....you want to know why...
> because no matter what i do in my life...or where i go..or what i see...i still feel like there is something missing...the things i do are not fulfilling me. buying a car..a new house...going on various holidays...even charity work...something is still missing...
> 
> now Guru Ji is telling me there is something more to this whole creation...and Guru Ji is wanting me to find out...to seek it...to search for it...





chazSingh said:


> i've never asked anyone i know if they know the complete truth as i get the feeling the complete truth is so vast and infinite...its not something you can define, label or say "yes, i know it all"...





harry haller said:


> do you remember the bit about simple questions, I will repeat it if you wish,
> 
> 
> do you happen to know anyone personally who has found this truth?
> ...



you said yes, my friend, now, it seems to me you are a little confused, allow me to put my point forward again, your looking for something that to date, no one else has found, unless you can claim otherwise


----------



## chazSingh (Jan 14, 2016)

harry haller said:


> you said yes, my friend, now, it seems to me you are a little confused, allow me to put my point forward again, your looking for something that to date, no one else has found, unless you can claim otherwise



its ok to be confused at something that Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji said was as hard as 'steel' to describe.

i have no problems with coming across as being confused

looking for something that no one else has found to date? well if it hasn't struck you yet...i believed that the Guru Ji's found it or were led to it...i believe the bhagats, sants, pure khalsas who's shabads were included in SGGS Ji had found it, or were led to it...

and in my short experience so far, i can only say that i no longer just believe anymore...i 'know' they did because many things they say are coming true.

A truth is that after physical death we do not die....i know many that have come to know this through experience whilst still being alive.

A Truth is that there are creations upon creations...i know many that have come to know this through experience whilst still being alive.

a truth is that you can come to know many truths through living honestly, sharing your earnings and doing naam jap...i know many including myself that have come to know some truths through this

A truth is that all is in Waheguru's control...i know this, and others know this because none of us can re-create any experiences of some of these truths with our own (minds) exertions...we pay attention...and Guru Ji does the rest if it so pleases Guru Ji.

the deeper you look, the more it seems there is to find...the ocean of the mind and beyond...endless it seems

i'm a confused person...but i couldnt care less...is there any logic in love..?


god bless my good friend


----------



## Harry Haller (Jan 15, 2016)

chazSingh said:


> its ok to be confused at something that Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji said was as hard as 'steel' to describe.


but confused? unsure maybe, but confused? 



chazSingh said:


> looking for something that no one else has found to date? well if it hasn't struck you yet...i believed that the Guru Ji's found it or were led to it...i believe the bhagats, sants, pure khalsas who's shabads were included in SGGS Ji had found it, or were led to it...



it, I do not think this it exists, I think all you have are periods of self understanding, which get longer and longer. 



chazSingh said:


> and in my short experience so far, i can only say that i no longer just believe anymore...i 'know' they did because many things they say are coming true.


self fulfilling prophecy?



chazSingh said:


> A truth is that after physical death we do not die....i know many that have come to know this through experience whilst still being alive.



this is not a truth because it cannot be proven, gravity can be proven in a few moments, life after death cannot. 



chazSingh said:


> A Truth is that there are creations upon creations...i know many that have come to know this through experience whilst still being alive.



you mean different worlds, again, it cannot be proven, I could say a truth is that my best friend is a smurf, but unless I show you the smurf, its not a truth!



chazSingh said:


> a truth is that you can come to know many truths through living honestly, sharing your earnings and doing naam jap...i know many including myself that have come to know some truths through this



err again, this not a truth, it cannot be proven



chazSingh said:


> A truth is that all is in Waheguru's control...i know this, and others know this because none of us can re-create any experiences of some of these truths with our own (minds) exertions...we pay attention...and Guru Ji does the rest if it so pleases Guru Ji.



again this is not a truth, there is much debate as to whether we are living pre destined lives, or we are living under our own control, if all is under Waheguru's control then why does the phrase manmukh exist?


chazSingh said:


> the deeper you look, the more it seems there is to find...the ocean of the mind and beyond...endless it seems



it is endless, but circular not linear. 



chazSingh said:


> i'm a confused person...but i couldnt care less...is there any logic in love..?



no, which is why I avoid it like the plague


chazSingh said:


> god bless my good friend


and you too!


----------



## chazSingh (Jan 20, 2016)

harry haller said:


> but confused? unsure maybe, but confused?



confusion happens because i'm dealing with something that cannot be understood completely...or put into words..or proved by myself to someone else...excuse me for being a little confused when  trying to describe Waheguru lol...




> it, I do not think this it exists, I think all you have are periods of self understanding, which get longer and longer.



what are you saying here...it doesn't mean anything...its just words...so you think i'm just having moments of self understanding, which get longer and longer...what is this? realization, self understanding, awakening...whatever the word used...something happens..and i get my proof...call it what you like  its all words until you're there, experiencing it first hand



> this is not a truth because it cannot be proven, gravity can be proven in a few moments, life after death cannot.



to prove something is being able to show it or guide someone else to the same experience.

its proven to me...and i'm telling you if you want proof do what SGGS Ji says and you'll get your proof.

i can't prove that the apple i ate was sour...i have to ask you to also eat it 



> you mean different worlds, again, it cannot be proven, I could say a truth is that my best friend is a smurf, but unless I show you the smurf, its not a truth!




why are you so interested in being able to prove it...is it not enough for you to obtain the proof for yourself?

you're like a person that wants everyone to tell you what a certain holiday destination is like...when the best experience would be...pack you bags and get on a flight dude..lol

SGGS Ji tells you where to by the bag...ticket...boarding zone, time of arrival at destination etc etc...

on the question of other worlds...it can be proved to you...if waheguru shows it to you...if you have the right intentions...



> err again, this not a truth, it cannot be proven



oh dear oh dear



> again this is not a truth, there is much debate as to whether we are living pre destined lives, or we are living under our own control, if all is under Waheguru's control then why does the phrase manmukh exist?



waheguru Will, waheguru flow...involves true selfless love as the base current...if we act in this 'naturally' we are vibrating at the same frequency. the Ego (which gives us this individualized experience) tends to bring anger, attachment, greed, lust into the picture...manmuck is one who follows such thoughts and turns them into actions which thus have their negative effects....gurmuck follows the heart more often than not, whilst fighting to rid the effects of the negative traits within them)

Waheguru is in control because all the above happens in His rules...as you sow shall you reap...go with the flow of current, love, compassion, forgiveness, patience, perserverence etc etc and you glide a lot easier...or flap your arms around in the current with negative traits and cause waves and ripples and tsunami's...physically manifested or mentally manifested...

this is how i see it at the present moment...


----------



## Harry Haller (Jan 20, 2016)

chazSingh said:


> confusion happens because i'm dealing with something that cannot be understood completely...or put into words..or proved by myself to someone else...excuse me for being a little confused when trying to describe Waheguru lol...



It clearly says in the SGGSji that Waheguru cannot be described, and that anyone who attempts to describe the state of one who has found Waheguru  will surely regret it. So why are you asking me to excuse you, when you are clearly in breach of a direct statement?



chazSingh said:


> what are you saying here...it doesn't mean anything...its just words...so you think i'm just having moments of self understanding, which get longer and longer...what is this? realization, self understanding, awakening...whatever the word used...something happens..and i get my proof...call it what you like  its all words until you're there, experiencing it first hand



So you are not having moments? you have reached understanding 24/7?



chazSingh said:


> to prove something is being able to show it or guide someone else to the same experience.



Its interesting you write this, I agree with the former, its being able to show it, but the latter, 'guide someone else to the same experience' sounds a bit sinister, you can guide someone by drugging them, or bamboozling them, if they are gullible, then guiding someone to see your point of view is not unlike grooming. 



chazSingh said:


> its proven to me...and i'm telling you if you want proof do what SGGS Ji says and you'll get your proof.



ok, do which bit of what the SGGSji says? I already do what the SGGSji says to the best of my abilities, which bit do you suggest I embrace?



chazSingh said:


> an't prove that the apple i ate was sour...i have to ask you to also eat it


But you see I don't want to eat it, its sour, and I am having to follow you around while you get other people to eat it, I am not interested in your apple. 



chazSingh said:


> hy are you so interested in being able to prove it...is it not enough for you to obtain the proof for yourself?



I already have, I am not the one making grand statements that I am unable to provide proof for.



chazSingh said:


> you're like a person that wants everyone to tell you what a certain holiday destination is like...when the best experience would be...pack you bags and get on a flight dude..lol



Nope, I am the person watching someone tell everyone about his holiday, when the holiday snaps reveal something completely different, all I am doing is standing here and telling you that the luxury hottub and valet service was not actually there. 



chazSingh said:


> SGGS Ji tells you where to by the bag...ticket...boarding zone, time of arrival at destination etc etc...


SGGSji, or you?


chazSingh said:


> on the question of other worlds...it can be proved to you...if waheguru shows it to you...if you have the right intentions...


I see, so now my intentions are all wrong, and I am not in the super duper club that has access to all these other words.


----------



## chazSingh (Jan 21, 2016)

harry haller said:


> It clearly says in the SGGSji that Waheguru cannot be described, and that anyone who attempts to describe the state of one who has found Waheguru  will surely regret it. So why are you asking me to excuse you, when you are clearly in breach of a direct statement?



you're asking me questions, and i'm trying to answer as best i can...and yes i will fail at trying to describe things i cannot put into words or truely understand myself.

you can;t keep asking all your questions, and then when i try, hit me with Guru Ji's verse above..lol

make your mind up...either you agree with Guru Ji's verse and agree some things can only be experienced and may be beyond all logic and reasoning...or you continue asking questions expecting some proof from me...



> So you are not having moments? you have reached understanding 24/7?



in one breath you are saying we cannot prove existence of this that and the other, then you're telling me i'm just having moments of self realization or something...what are you trying to say here? 



> Its interesting you write this, I agree with the former, its being able to show it, but the latter, 'guide someone else to the same experience' sounds a bit sinister, you can guide someone by drugging them, or bamboozling them, if they are gullible, then guiding someone to see your point of view is not unlike grooming.



why are you so negative? its all doom n gloom lol... seriously....i can guide someone to pass their maths exam by helping them....i can guide around a city that i know more about...i can guide someone to the correct platform for a train because i catch it regularly...i can guide someone through dense thick forest if i've managed to get through it myself...

why do you have to pick something or view something so negatively? yes someone can be groomed and abused, but there does exist the opposite...have some faith in your fellow human beings my good friend 




> ok, do which bit of what the SGGSji says? I already do what the SGGSji says to the best of my abilities, which bit do you suggest I embrace?



the bits i have talked about many times before...but those are bits you don;t agree with 



> But you see I don't want to eat it, its sour, and I am having to follow you around while you get other people to eat it, I am not interested in your apple.



then stop asking me questions  or skip past my posts.




> I already have, I am not the one making grand statements that I am unable to provide proof for.



i'm telling you that some things that are stated in SGGS Ji, i have come to know of through experience by trying to implement things in SGGS Ji into my daily life...and thankfully Waheguru heard my calls.
Do you think i want to sit everyone down and offer some proof...take a DNA sample of Waheguru and have it sampled then Get the BBC to broadcast the results or something...what proof do you want...how do you want it showed to you...i'm telling you whats in SGGS Ji works...and can be proved but its a very personal proof...you have to walk the walk yourself as you have to do in many aspects of life..you already know this...why make pointless remarks like above?

if you are overweight...do you just want proof via claims made on T.V of a fat loss program, or pictures of a before and after....if you want to know if something works for you...you have to try it.




> Nope, I am the person watching someone tell everyone about his holiday, when the holiday snaps reveal something completely different, all I am doing is standing here and telling you that the luxury hottub and valet service was not actually there.



errm....ok...




> I see, so now my intentions are all wrong, and I am not in the super duper club that has access to all these other words.




you see harry ji, you 'are' in the special club.....you were born as a human being...the only creation of god capable of unravelling and experiencing the KAAR (creation), the ONG (the shabad) and the IK....the one.


----------

