# Using Technology: Online Pesh?



## ActsOfGod (Apr 1, 2014)

Here's an interesting question:  Can we make use of latest the technological advances in communications to help with things like an Amritdhari Sikh doing pesh in front of the 5?

If the Singh or Kaur happens to live in a place where there is no Gurudwara, or if the Gurudwara doesn't have the 5, then would it be acceptable to perform peshi in front of the 5 via Skype, for example?

What do you all think of this?


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## Harry Haller (Apr 1, 2014)

I think that the relationship between a person and Creator is so complicated, so intimate, so private, that no other person could even begin to comprehend it, judge it, or improve it.


For a way of life that, in my view,  should frown upon ritual, ceremony and traditions, we sure excel ourselves, but thats just my take on it


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## Sherdil (Apr 1, 2014)

Anybody know when this practice of "going pesh" started? It sounds a lot like Catholics going to confession.


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## ActsOfGod (Apr 1, 2014)

Sherdil said:


> Anybody know when this practice of "going pesh" started? It sounds a lot like Catholics going to confession.



These are some key differences.  It's not anonymous.  You don't get absolution from the priest as in Catholicism, but rather you are forgiven by the sangat and you get tankah ("salary/price/payment"), which you gracefully accept and perform.  It's not quite the same concept as professing your sins and begging for absolution.

AoG


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## Sherdil (Apr 1, 2014)

ActsOfGod said:


> These are some key differences.  It's not anonymous.  You don't get absolution from the priest as in Catholicism, but rather you are forgiven by the sangat and you get tankah ("salary/price/payment"), which you gracefully accept and perform.  It's not quite the same concept as professing your sins and begging for absolution.
> 
> AoG



I see, then I don't think doing pesh via the internet or other means of communication is a good idea. How do the 5 pyaare know that the person is sincere? How do they know if the person will really comply with their direction?

My personal belief is that doing pesh is unnecessary. If you broke your rehat, then you can hold yourself accountable. Moreover, gurbani says that only Naam can cleanse the soul. Perhaps the remedy is more gurbani. Rehabilitation instead of punishment.


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## SaintSoldier1699 (Apr 2, 2014)

No doubt any change in the norm produces more questions and opens up more scenarios in addition to open up discussion about the original practice and what its become!

Some of the issues we might face;

Who would do it? Would each jatha create their own?  How would you know the 5 Singh's actually are wise enough to understand your issue?  Give a correct judgement? Penalty? How would you know the pesh-ee is genuine?

Judging from first hand experience, majority of pesh-ee's do not really understand the Maryada/Sikh philosophy in the first place and fear they have broken Rehit because of hear-say, or what people say or the assumption that exist.  

For example, "I had an operation and had to remove my Kirpan", "I had an operation and they removed hair", "I ate meat by mistake", "I went on a flight and had to remove my Kirpan", "I didn't do my paat for X number of days".

Really makes you question (similar to the education system), are we creating robots or problem solvers!


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## Harry Haller (Apr 3, 2014)

SaintSoldier1699 said:


> No doubt any change in the norm produces more questions and opens up more scenarios in addition to open up discussion about the original practice and what its become!
> 
> Some of the issues we might face;
> 
> ...



We are creating robots and have been for years, self contemplation, analysis, inner learning, reconciliation, all flushed down the toilet and rejected in favour of  the stupid, the petty, the irrelevant


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## Dalvinder Singh Grewal (Apr 3, 2014)

ActsOfGod said:


> Here's an interesting question:  Can we make use of latest the technological advances in communications to help with things like an Amritdhari Sikh doing pesh in front of the 5?
> 
> If the Singh or Kaur happens to live in a place where there is no Gurudwara, or if the Gurudwara doesn't have the 5, then would it be acceptable to perform peshi in front of the 5 via Skype, for example?
> 
> What do you all think of this?



One wonders at the new terminologies being given to 'Pahul' process. First of all Sikhs 'pahul' is the right word and not amrit since Sikhs are given 'Khande-baate da pahul' and not amirt as given among Hindus and Christians. There is no word like 'pesh' either. Abbreviating 'Panj pyare' with 5 is also not appropriate. Bestowing 'pahul' involves 1. The acceptance of a Sikh to have 'pahul', come into the true fold of the Guru and accept Sikhism as his religion. 2. He comes prepared for it by keeping hair: 'kesh', wears kachhelhra, kada, kangha and kirpan'; the five kakaars. 3. He bows to the Panj Pyare, shows his readiness  by presenting himself and requests for administering 'pahul' and admission to Sikhism. 4. Thereafter the 'reverred Panj pyaras' go through the process of administering pahul as described in Sikh rehat maryada.
Through skype or other means of technology personal presence in front of the Guru 'Sri Guru Granth Sahib' and 'panj Pyaras cannot be vouched for; hence not recommended. With the advance means of communication available, and the Sikh religious centres being in almost all countries; it is not difficult to present oneself for the required 'pahul' process'.
Dr  Dalvinder Singh Grewa, hence not advised.
Dr Dalvinder Singh Grewal


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## ActsOfGod (Apr 3, 2014)

dalvinder singh grewal said:


> Abbreviating 'Panj pyare' with 5 is also not appropriate.



Can you respectfully tell me what makes it inappropriate?

AoG


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## ActsOfGod (Apr 3, 2014)

dalvinder singh grewal said:


> There is no word like 'pesh' either.



I seem to have found it mentioned in the Sikh Rehat Maryada (Page 19, Section 3)

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/attac...maryada-punjabi-english-sikhrehat-punjabi.pdf

"Gur-Sangat'chon Guru Granth Sahib Je dee hazoori wich panj pyare chunnay jaan, jo *pesh *hoay sajjan dee bhul nu vichar kay Gur-Sangat paas tankah (dhand) thajveez karan"


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## Harry Haller (Apr 4, 2014)

It is important we keep asking questions, it is the only way we will learn, it is why I miss Ishna so much, she asked lots of questions..


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## ravneet_sb (Apr 4, 2014)

ActsOfGod said:


> I seem to have found it mentioned in the Sikh Rehat Maryada (Page 19, Section 3)
> 
> http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/attac...maryada-punjabi-english-sikhrehat-punjabi.pdf
> 
> "Gur-Sangat'chon Guru Granth Sahib Je dee hazoori wich panj pyare chunnay jaan, jo *pesh *hoay sajjan dee bhul nu vichar kay Gur-Sangat paas tankah (dhand) thajveez karan"






Objective of word is

Word "Pesh" refers to "Present" Sajan "Member"


Sat Sri Akaal,

"Aim of Ritual"

Firstly Sweet Patasha (inflated sweet) is melt in bowl, like (inflated sweet EGO) is melted, than EGO controlled by five organs, and discipline of Five Organs is given for mind  transformation.

Thoughts of SEX/FOOD/SECURITY/RELATION/EGO are natural,
to do seva with these thoughts in discipline is "Human" 

and five organs are discpline to transform into "SIKH" and given a "Sikh" routine of life for understanding.

Ritual is "Symbolic"

may lead to understanding of "EGO" and "FIVE"



Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## ActsOfGod (Apr 4, 2014)

ravneet_sb said:


> may lead to understanding of "EGO" and "FIVE"



What do you mean exactly by the above statement?

Are you referring to the use of "the 5" instead of saying "panj pyare"?

So if I say "the 5" instead of "panj pyare", I am egotistical?  Is this what you are inferring?

Do you seriously believe that this constitutes disrespect?

What do you say about the cults and so-called "Sants" (in India) who are mocking Sikhi by attempting to institute their own rehat, their own baptism ceremony, using "seven pyare" instead of "panj pyare", or making mocking jokes about them?  Isn't that the real disrespect?

Maybe I should say "the Beloved 5", that will be a more accurate English translation of "panj pyare"?  Would that suffice?

AoG


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## Sherdil (Apr 4, 2014)

ravneet_sb said:


> Objective of word is
> 
> Word "Pesh" refers to "Present" Sajan "Member"
> 
> ...



The Force is strong with this one...


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## ravneet_sb (Apr 5, 2014)

ActsOfGod said:


> What do you mean exactly by the above statement?
> 
> Are you referring to the use of "the 5" instead of saying "panj pyare"?
> 
> ...



Sat Sri Akaal,

"Panj" in reference to the contest means "Five"
"Pyare" in reference to the contest means "Loved Ones"

This is subjective reference, 

Objective of the reference is five eternal. 

Six (Mind) and Seven (Impetus) may be mandatory for all  till alive 

and 

Seven can not be controlled as "TRUE NATURE" 
only can one "Understand".

so not referred in this contest. 

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## ActsOfGod (Apr 7, 2014)

ravneet_sb said:


> Sat Sri Akaal,
> 
> "Panj" in reference to the contest means "Five"
> "Pyare" in reference to the contest means "Loved Ones"
> ...




Can you translate into plain English please?


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## ravneet_sb (Apr 7, 2014)

ActsOfGod said:


> Can you translate into plain English please?



"Gur-Sangat' chon Guru Granth Sahib Je dee hazoori wich panj pyare chunnay jaan, jo pesh hoay sajjan dee bhul nu vichar kay Gur-Sangat paas tankah (dhand) thajveez karan"

"Gur-Sangat' chon (From Guru's Congregation) 
 Guru Granth Sahib Je dee hazoori (In the prsence of GURU)
wich panj pyare chunnay jaan,  (Five members to be selected)


 jo pesh hoay sajjan dee bhul nu vichar kay (who shall understand the present conviction of a person)

 Gur-Sangat paas tankah (dhand) thajveez karan" 
(And shall execute punishment)

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Waherguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## ActsOfGod (Apr 7, 2014)

ravneet_sb said:


> "Gur-Sangat' chon Guru Granth Sahib Je dee hazoori wich panj pyare chunnay jaan, jo pesh hoay sajjan dee bhul nu vichar kay Gur-Sangat paas tankah (dhand) thajveez karan"
> 
> "Gur-Sangat' chon (From Guru's Congregation)
> Guru Granth Sahib Je dee hazoori (In the prsence of GURU)
> ...







That was not what I asked.  I know and understand what the punjabi text means.  I was not asking for a literal translation of what was written in the SRM.  I was asking you to translate YOUR cryptic reply to a question that was not asked of you.

Alas, such miscommunication!

AoG


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## Sherdil (Apr 7, 2014)

Only those who are steeped in the ways of the Force can understand the Jedi dialect. :sippingcoffeemunda:

To the uninitiated, it sounds like nonsensical rambling.


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## Harry Haller (Apr 7, 2014)

To be a Sikh is to be a learner in the most simplest language, its what makes Sikhism different to other religions, that the most uninitiated person can find enlightenment and contentment.............


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## Ishna (Apr 7, 2014)

Ravneet ji *I implore you,* please make your contributions as clear and simple as possible. I realise there might be some language barrier issue, so perhaps try to explain concepts in simple English which might need more words but should be easier to understand.

Other posters would be courteous to not make personal jokes about another's method of communication.


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## ravneet_sb (Apr 8, 2014)

Ishna said:


> Ravneet ji *I implore you,* please make your contributions as clear and simple as possible. I realise there might be some language barrier issue, so perhaps try to explain concepts in simple English which might need more words but should be easier to understand.
> 
> Other posters would be courteous to not make personal jokes about another's method of communication.



Sat Sri Akaal,

.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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