# The Ocean Of Love



## Astroboy (Jul 22, 2008)

http://www.spiritualawakeningradio.com/anurag_01_intro.pdf

Excerpts from Anurag Sagar of Kabir:-

Whatever people have written
about the Great Masters has been written many years after their
departure from this world. That is why Kabir's life sketch has
different versions. According to most of the traditions, Kabir
Sahib was born in 1398 in Benares and he died in 15 18, living for
120 years.
There are many different stories of Kabir and of his effect on
others, some of which are told in the Introduction to this book.
Dharam Das was Kabir's gurumukh disciple and successor, who
was a very wealthy person and an idol-worshiper. It is said that
once when he was doing his worship, Kabir appeared to him and
asked, "What are these little idols? If this big idol is God, what
are these small ones?" and then disappeared, leaving Dharam
Das to think about what had happened. At that time, of course,
he didn't know that it was Kabir Sahib who had appeared to him.
Second time Kabir appeared to Dharam Das was in the form of
a sadhu. Dharam Das and his wife were sitting by the fire, and
Kabir Sahib said to Dharam Das, "You are a sinner." Dharam
Das's wife could not bear this criticism so she said, "How can
you say that he is a sinner? You are a sinner!" Then Kabir Sahib
replied, "Dharam Das, look in the wood that you are burningand
you will see what you are really doing." When they looked,
they saw many insects in the wood, and Kabir said, "You are
burning so many insects alive! What is this? Are you not
sinning?" After saying this he again disappeared, and Dharam
Das realized the truth of it: "I am a great sinner."
Because he was a good soul devoted to God and he wanted the
knowledge of God, he remembered that he had met someone
before who had asked him about idols, and he realized both of them
were the same person. Now Dharam Das repented very much, and
he thought that if his wife had not got upset at Kabir Sahib, he
might have been able to get the knowledge of God. When he told
that to his wife, she said, "Well, flies come to the sugar. You have
so much money; if you perform some kind of yajna and announce
that you are going to donate things to the sadhus, many sadhus will
come. It is possible that this sadhu will also come, and you can talk
to him and get some knowledge of God from him." So Dharam
Das performed many yajnas in the town of Benares, but Kabir
Sahib never came there. Then Dharam Das went to other places and
there also he performed many yajnas, but Kabir Sahib never came.
In that way he just went on spending his money, and even after he
performed his last yajna after selling every single thing, Kabir Sahib
still didn't come.
So when Dharam Das had lost all his money and still didn't get to
see the Sadhu, he thought, "Why should I go back home when I
have lost everything? It is better to commit suicide." So he went to
the bank of the river and was about to jump in when Kabir appeared
there. And then Dharam Das touched Kabir Sahib's feet
and said, "0 Lord, If I had met You before, 1 would have given
You all the wealth which 1 had, instead of wasting it performing
the yujnus." Kabir Sahib replied, "This was the right time for
you to come to me. If you had come to me earlier, when you
had all that wealth, it is possible that you would not become
what you will become now."
So Kabir Sahib gave him initiation and, after Kabir Sahib left
the body, Dharam Das continued the work of giving initiation into
Shabd Naam. And the book Anurag Sagar is in the form of questions
from Dharam Das and Kabir Sahib's replies to those questions.


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## Astroboy (Jul 22, 2008)

Kabir took initiation from a Guru, and the Guru was Ramananda. Relationship of Kabir and
Ramananda in detail as follows:
Kabir Sahib was all-powerful and even if he had not taken anyone
as Guru, still it would not matter much. But still he didn't break the
limits and traditions and that's why he took Ramananda as his
Master. But the fact was that Ramananda was liberated by Kabir
Sahib. Ramananda was an idol worshiper and didn't have any
knowledge of spirituality. But the Hindu people were taking him as
a very great holy man, and they were also criticizing Kabir Sahib
because he didn't have any Master or guru, saying that to take initiation
or to take a mantra from him is a sin. Kabir Sahib was a very
clever Mahatma, and he thought that if he took any small Mahatma
as his Master, then these people would not believe. So he should
take somebody who is well-known among all these people as his
Master. But since Ramananda was not happy in even seeing any
Muslim, and because Kabir was born in a Muslim family, there was
no question of taking initiation from Ramananda. It was impossible
for him.
Ramananda used to go, every morning, to the River Ganges. So,
because Kabir Sahib wanted to take him as his Master, Kabir
changed his form into a small child. He lay down on the steps on
which Ramananda was coming back. It was very dark, and accidentally
Ramananda stepped on that child. And Kabir, who was
that child, started weeping. Who knows whether Ramananda really
stepped on Kabir Sahib or not? But still Kabir wanted some excuse
to weep, so he started weeping. Ramananda was very much afraid
and he said, "0 man of God, repeat 'God.' 0 man of God, repeat
'God' "--like that. But Kabir Sahib went on weeping. And he
again said this thing, "0 man of God, repeat 'God.' " And
Ramananda came back home and Kabir disappeared from that
place.
After that Kabir Sahib started saying to people, "Ramananda is
my Master. I have got initiation from Him." So the Hindu people
were very upset with Ramananda, and they came to him, saying,
"You have got thousands of Hindu disciples but you are still
hungry for more. Why did you make this Muslim your disciple?"
In those days, people were believing very much in caste. So Ramananda said, "Who said he is my disciple? I do not know any Kabir
and I have not given initiation to any Kabir." So all the Hindu people
came to Kabir Sahib and told him, "You come with us to Ramananda.
You are saying that he is your Master but he doesn't believe
that. You come with us." So Kabir went to Ramananda's home.
And at that time Ramananda was worshiping an idol of Lord
Vishnu. Because he was never happy to see the faces of Muslim people,
he had a curtain and Kabir Sahib was sitting on the other side of
the curtain. Ramananda was playing with the idol and at the end he
put the crown on the head of the idol, but he forgot to put the chain
on the neck. So he was very confused at what to do then, because if
he removed the crown from the head that meant disrespect and
there was no other way to put the chain on the neck. So Kabir
Sahib, who was all-conscious, said, "Master, Guru Ji, why are you
so confused? Just unhook the chain and then again hook it and
then you will be able to put the chain around the neck." When he
saw Kabir Sahib was sitting there on the other side of the curtain
and couldn't even see him, he thought, "How did he know I had
this problem? And he has solved my problem!" He was very surprised.
So he talked with him and said, "When did I initiate you?"
Kabir Sahib reminded him of the incident and he told him, "You
stepped on me and you told me to repeat this thing, so I am
repeating that, and you are my Master."
So Ramananda said, "That was a child; but you are Kabir." He
said, "If you want me to become a child, I can show you. Now also
I can change myself into a child and I can show you that I am the
same thing." So when Ramananda came to know all this he said,
"If you are all-conscious, then why is there this curtain between you
and me? Remove that curtain." So after that Kabir Sahib liberated
Ramananda.
Even though Ramananda had received a lot from Kabir, still he
was involved in all the practices he was doing, rites and rituals and
idol-worshiping. Once Ramananda was performing the ceremony
in which they make many good foods and they give it to the people,
saying, "This is going to our fathers and forefathers, those who
have died and who are residing in the heavens." For that ceremony
Ramananda sent all his disciples including Kabir Sahib into the
village to get some milk to make rice pudding and other things. So
Kabir also went and there he saw that there was one dead cow, and
by force he started putting some food in the mouth of that dead
cow. Because she was dead, she couldn't eat by herself. But by
using a stick, he was forcing the food in her mouth. He started
milking her. But she was dead; how could she give milk? So theother disciples, when they saw Kabir doing this thing, they came to
Ramananda and reported it. Ramananda called Kabir and rebuked
him and said, "Oh man, the dead cow cannot eat food and she cannot
give milk." So Kabir Sahib said, "Guru Ji, are you sure that the
dead cow cannot eat anything or give any fruit?'' So he said, "Yes,
that is definitely true." So he said, "Well, how are you sure that the
food that you are giving to other people, saying, 'This is going to go
to your fathers, those who are residing in the heavens?' will really
give you fruit?" Ramananda didn't have any reply to that. And
Kabir Sahib only did this to teach him a lesson because Kabir Sahib
had made up his mind to liberate Ramananda.
KABIR AND HIS CONTEMPORARIES
Kabir's impact on his contemporaries was profound. Many stories are
told which illustrate his power, insight, and various aspects of his extraordinary
personality-including his honesty, unforced humility, total
dependence on God, compassion and bluntness.The people attribute this incident to my miraculous powers. It is just
as it once happened with Kabir Sahib. The pundits, the pseudo-
Saints and the well-read people were jealous of Kabir Sahib.
Accordingly they proclaimed throughout the town that on a certain
day there would be a Bhandara (a religious gathering and feast) at
Kabir Sahib's place. Kabir Sahib came to know about this trick the
evening before. How could He feed thousands of men? [He was of
course very poor.] He left the place in the evening and hid Himself
in the jungle, remaining there until the next day. From His place of
hiding He could see the people returning from His home the next
day, and all of them were remarking, "Well done, Kabir! What
delicious food you provided for the Sadhus!"
Kabir Sahib did not know what this meant.. . . He returned home
and His family told Him, "Well, you were here all the time and you
yourself fed all the people." Kabir Sahib at once understood that it
was all the mercy and blessing of the Supreme Father. [He is
reported to have exclaimed: "Kabir did not do it, could not do it,
would not do it; it is God Who has done it, and the credit has gone
to Kabir! "1 The same is the case in this incident.At the time of Kabir Sahib there was a certain pundit or religious
teacher. His story is written in the scriptures, and it tells of how he
studied the holy and other books extensively and became the most
learned man for many miles around, so he called himself Sarbajeet,
meaning one who has won above all others. On completion of his
studies, he returned to his mother's house. She was a follower of
Kabir Sahib, and he said to her, "Mother, I have become Sarbarjeet;
you should call me that from now on." She replied, "I
will, if you can beat Kabir Sahib in knowledge." Worldly
knowledge often encourages pride, and carelessly picking up his
books he said, "Oh, that is nothing," and went off to Kabir Sahib's
humble dwelling.
Kabir Sahib said to the young man, "Well, Punditji, what has
brought you here?" The proud pundit replied, "I am Sarbajeet,
and I have come to beat you in knowledge." Kabir Sahib smiled at
him and saad, "I do not want to argue over this, so you just write
down that Sarbajeet has won and Kabir has lost; and I will sign it."
The pundit was very pleased that Kabir had given in so easily; he
quickly wrote the words and got Kabir to sign it. He went home,
and flourishing the paper at his mother, he said, "Now you will
have to call me Sarbajeet, for Kabir Sahib has acknowledged it."
She took the paper and read aloud, "Sarbajeet has lost and Kabir
has won." Unbelieving, he read it for himself, and said, "How is
this possible? There must be some mistake-1 will go back to Kabir
Sahib." On arriving at the Saint's house, he blurted out, "Maharaj,
I made a slight mistake, so I want to rewrite the paper." Kabir
Sahib amiably agreed, and signed the new declaration. When the
pundit reached home, his mother read the paper and said, "But it is
still written, 'Sarbajeet has lost and Kabir has won."' In frustration
he shouted, "I will go again to Kabir!" and hurried off. It is a rule
with all great Masters that they never belittle a person, but with love
they make the people understand. If one does not listen even then,
they will go to the extent of operating, like a doctor who will do his
very best to cure a tumor, even if it means resorting to surgery. So,
with great kindness, Kabir Sahib pointed out to the pundit, "How
can your mind and mine become one?In the time of Kabir Sahib, once on the banks of the River Ganga a
person of low caste was bathing and a pundit was passing by. And it
happened that one drop of water from the body of that low-caste
man touched the body of the pundit, and he became very upset
because he considered himself polluted; but Kabir Sahib told him
very lovingly, "Oh Brahmin, you were also born of a woman; how
can you be called brahmin when we shudras came into the world
from the same place and we were born in the same manner? How
can you say that we and you are different? You have blood and we
also have the same blood!" So Kabir Sahib lovingly explained to
him that all men are the same.' '


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## Astroboy (Jul 22, 2008)

Revolutionary sentiments like this have endeared Kabir to such modern
Indian visionaries as Mahatma Gandhi and Rabindranath Tagore, but
had the opposite effect in his own time. A caste-conscious Hindu society
and an orthodox Muslim establishment both viewed the presumptuous
julaha with horror, and he was persecuted a number of times, primarily
by the Emperor Sikander Lodi. He was drowned in the Ganges chained
in a boat full of stones, but either was miraculously saved at the last
minute or resurrected from the dead; he was buried alive, but survived
that also; he was bound and thrown in front of an elephant, but the
elephant refused to touch him. These stories are part of the tradition, but
of course are not verifiable; nevertheless, that Kabir's teaching and actions
brought him into conflict with authority and eventually persecution
is overwhelmingly probable; to survive such persecution either
through divine intervention or resurrection is not without precedent; and
in any case, Kabir's survival is well attested, as is his death in Magahar at
an advanced age.The earliest written reference to Kabir is in the Bhakta Mala, a poem on the lives of various Saints, written
by Nabha Das about 1600 (eighty years after Kabir's death). It is a very
interesting and accurate brief summing-up of his career as seen from
outside:
Kabir refused to acknowledge caste distinctions, or to recognize the
authority of the six Hindu schools of philosophy;. . .He held that
religion without bhakti [loving devotion for God] was no religion at
all, and that asceticism, fasting and almsgiving had no value if
unaccompanied by bhajan [meditation]. By means of ramainis,
shabdas and sakhis [different types of songs] he imparted religious
instruction to Hindus and Mohammedans alike. He had no preference
for either religion, but gave teaching that was appreciated by the followers of both. He spoke out his mind fearlessly, and never
made it his object merely to please his hearers.                                                               
Kabir had a number of disciples who became Masters and gave initiation after his
passing: some of them are known only from his writings, but many are
famous in their own right. Ravidas and Dadu Sahib are two well-known
Saints who derived directly or indirectly from Kabir, and there are many
others. The two that are of concern to us here are Dharam Das, who was
his gurumukh successor and who is honored today especially by the
members of the Kabir-panth, a religious sect in northern India (it has
Hindu and Muslim sections) which claims to have been founded by
Kabir, and Baba Nanak, the first guru of the Sikhs, who is honored
today especially by the followers of the Sikh religion.
It is one of the ironies of history that the line continuing through
Dharam Das, whose special relationship with Kabir is vividly described
in the Foreword, should have decayed and become eventually
one of ceremonial religious leadership, while the line continuing through
Nanak, who only met Kabir twice and who was himself a swateh sant,
"born free,"12 should be the line through which Kabir's power and impulse
continue in their fulness in the modern world.' But it is true: the
Kabir-panth today has no knowledge of the inner teachings, and has
reduced its initiation to one of ritual only. While the same is true of the
Sikh religion, that line went underground after the death of the tenth
Sikh Guru and has continued unabated down to the present.
KABIR'S PASSING
When Kabir was ready to leave, it is said that his Hindu and Muslim
disciples were prepared to fight over whether his body should be
cremated or buried. After rebuking them sternly for forgetting his
teachings so soon, he lay down, covered himself with sheets, and told
everyone 1 o leave. When they came back into the room, his body was
gone; where it had been was a heap of flowers. His Muslim followers
took half of the flowers and buried them, and his Hindu disciples took
the other half and burned them. Thus in death as in life, Kabir demonstrated
the universality of the Masters.
It is also said that Kabir made a number of resurrection appearances
after his death, including at least one to Dharam Das in which he gave
him further instruction along the lines of the Anurag Sagar.


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## Astroboy (Jul 22, 2008)

*ANURAG SAGAR*

*PROLOGUE*
Gurudev is perfect
The Master is an Ocean of Grace, He showers grace on the
miserable ones.
Rare are those who know His secret: He manifests Himself in those
who recognize Him.
Who deserves it?
*HYMN*
Only the connoisseur, who will test the Shabda
And listen to the teachings with full attention
And within whom these teachings will dwell, only he will understand
this.
He within whom the Sun of Knowledge will manifest and remove
the darkness of attachment-only he will understand this.
I am telling you this Anurag Sagar (Ocean of Love)-only rare
saints will understand.
Without love one cannot achieve it
*COUPLET*
Any learned saint who thinks over my words and has love in his
heart will achieve Nirvana.
*THE SIGNS OF A LOVER*
Dharam Das said:
0 Satguru, folding my hands I beg You, please clear up this doubt
of mine:
How do I recognize the one within whom love manifests?
What does a lover look like? Without love the jiva cannot be
liberated-
0 my God, tell me about that love, and give examples to explain it
to me.
Examples of a lover's qualities
The Satguru said:
0 Dhararn Das, I will explain to you the qualities of the lover; listen
attentively so that you may recognize him.
Example of the deer
Intoxicated by the music, the deer runs and comes to the hunter.
He doesn't have any fear, not even when he sacrifices his head.
Hearing the music he sacrifices his life-a lover should do the same.
Example of the moth
A lover should be like a moth when it goes near light.
Example of Sati
0 Dharam Das, listen to more examples and manifest the Satguru's
Shabda.
Be like the woman who burns herself with her dead husband, and
while burning doesn't move her body;
One who leaves her house, wealth and friends, and in the pain of
separation, goes alone;
She doesn't stop even when people bring her son before her, and try
to catch her in attachment-
When people say, "Your son is weak and will die, and without you
your home will be lonely"-
When people say, "You have plenty of wealth, come back
homew-
She is in the pain of separation from her husband and nothing attracts
her.


What does the Satguru do?
Defeating Kal, He takes the soul to the Motionless Plane, where Sat
Purush is.
Reaching there, one finds infinite happiness and is freed from corning
back to this world.


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## Astroboy (Jul 22, 2008)

PROLOGUE
Who can reach the Motionless Plane?
HYMN
One who will climb the Path of Truth believing my words,
Like the warrior who marches ahead in battle and doesn't worry
about what is behind-
So become like the warrior and the Sati, and take the Knowledge of
the Path from the Saint.
Take refuge in the Satguru and, developing Mritak, rid yourself of
Kal's pain.
Rare are those who deserve it
COUPLET
Kabir says this, after reflection: Only the brave one who does this
can achieve the Beloved.
WHO IS A MRITAK?
Dharam Das said:
0 my God, tell me the qualities of mritak, so that the fire which is
burning in my mind may be extinguished.
0 cloud of nectar, explain to me-how can this life die?
Examples of Mritak
Kabir said:
Dharam Das, this is a complicated thing.
Only a few can learn this from a perfect Master.
Example of bhringi
Those who serve the Saints as Mritak, ultimately-grasping Shabda
-achieve the Path to God.
Just as the insect who, coming in contact with bhringi, develops its
body.
Bhringi attacks the insect with its sound, and one who catches that
sound
Is taken by the bhringi to his home, where he turns it into his own
form.
The insect who catches the sound of bhringi, itself becomes bhringi.
Rare are the insects who catch the sound of bhringi at the first
attempt.
Some catch it at a second attempt, some at a third, and sacrificing
their body and mind they become the form of bhringi.
PROLOGUE 9
The insect who doesn't catch the sound of bhringi remains as an
ordinary insect forever.
0 Dharam Das, the disciple should receive the knowledge from the
Master as the insect receives the sound from bhringi.
How does one achieve the quality of bhringi?
One who is determined to accept the teachings, I make him My
own form:
The jiva who has no duality realizes Me.
One who believes the words of the Masters, only he becomes the
bhringi.
When the crow merges itself into Shabda and leaves all her desires,
she becomes a hansa.
What is a hansa?
COUPLET
He who leaves the path of the crow and dwells on the true Shabda
within, eating pearls-
Who gives his life to Sat Purush by following the Path shown by the
Masters-is a hansa.
More examples of Mritak
Hear 0 Saints, the nature of Mritak; rare are those who practice the
Path of God.
PROLOGUE
Hear more attributes of Mritak: Mritak serves the Satguru.
Mritak manifests love within him, and receiving that love the jiva
gets liberation.
Example of the earth
The earth hurts no one-you be like that.
Some put sandalwood on her, some throw dirt on her-still she
hates no one.
Mritak also hates no one-He is very happy even when opposed.
Example of the sugar cane
Listen to more attributes of Mritak, and step on the Path shown by
the Master only after testing and understanding it:
When the farmer makes jaggery out of sugar, he cuts the sugar cane
into pieces;
Then it is crushed in the press and the juice is heated in the cauldron.
After boiling the juice jaggery is made, and boiling the jaggery, raw
sugar is obtained.
Heating the raw sugar, refined sugar is obtained.
When sugar again burns herself, rock candy is obtained.
Kabir says: From rock candy, sugar candy-which is liked by everyone-
is made.
In the same way, if the disciple bears all his sufferings, with Master's
grace, he can easily cross the Ocean of Life.
Who can develop the qualities of Mritak?
HYMN
Dharam Das, to develop the qualities of a Mritak is hard; only a
brave soul can do it.
The coward cannot bear to hear it. He runs away and feels as if his
body and mind are burning.
Only those disciples who are looked after by the Master can board
the boat of Master's Knowledge.
And this is true: that one who gets that knowledge, definitely goes
to his eternal home.
Only Mritak is a Sadhu
COUPLET
Only he who becomes Mritak is a Sadhu and only he realizes the
Satguru.
PROLOGUE
He removes all illusions and even the gods depend on him.
Who is a Sadhu?
0 Dharam Das, the path of the Sadhu is very difficult. He who lives
as Mritak is a perfect Sadhu.
He who has controlled the five organs of senses and drinks the
nectar of Naam day and night is a Sadhu.
Controlling the organ of seeing
First of all control the eyes, and meditate on the Naam received
from the Master.
Seeing the Beautiful Form of God is the only worship for these eyes;
he should not desire any other.
One who understands "beautiful" and "ugly" as the same, and
doesn't look at the body, enjoys happiness forever.
Controlling the organ of hearing
His ear should be fond of hearing good words, and should not like
to hear bad words;
But he who bears both-good and bad words-likes the Knowledge
of the Master to remain in his heart.
Controlling the organ of smell
The nose is controlled by pleasant smells, but the clever saints keep
it in their control.
Controlling the organ of taste
The tongue wants pleasant tastes: sour, sweet and delicious tastes.
But the Mritak does not know any difference between tasty and
tasteless things.
He does not get excited even if he is brought the Five Nectars.
He does not refuse food without salt, and lovingly accepts whatever
is served him.
PROLOGUE
Controlling the male genital organ
This organ is wicked and very sinful. Lust is conquered by only a
few ones.
A lustful woman is the mine of Kal. Leave her company and become
the Knower of the Guru.
Controlling lust
Whenever the wave of lust comes one should wake himself up.
He should put his attention into Shabda and, keeping quiet, should
drink the Nectar of Naam.
When he merges into the Elementless, lust will be finished.
The god of lust is a robber
HYMN
Lust is a mighty, dangerous and pain-giving negative power,
Which made the gods, munis, yakshas, ghandharvas, indulge in
sex.
All of them were plundered-only a few who remained determined
with the quality of their knowledge were saved.
Those who have the Light of the Satguru's Knowledge and are with
Him, have the secret of the Path.
The ways of escaping from lust, the robber
COUPLET
Enlighten your inner Self with the Lamp of Knowledge.
Meditate on the Satguru Shabda and the thief of darkness will run
away.
Example of the anul bird
With the grace of the Master the jiva is called "Sadhu," and, becoming
the and bird, goes back to his eternal home.
Dharam Das, understand these words: I am telling you about the
anul bird,
Who lives in the sky and is supported by the air day and night.
She performs the sexual act through the eyes and in that way becomes
pregnant.
She lays her eggs in the sky, where there is no support:
The egg is nourished while falling; in the sky it is hatched and the
young bird takes birth;
It is on the way that it opens its eyes, and on the way that it gets its
wings.


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## Astroboy (Jul 22, 2008)

PROLOGUE 13
When it finally reaches the earth it realizes that this is not its home-
Realizing that, it flies back to where its parents live.
The anul bird doesn't come down to bring the baby back-it itself
goes home, treading the path.
Many birds live in this world, but very few of them are anul birds.
Birds like that are rare, and rare are the jivas who merge themselves
in Naam.
If the jiva can practice this path, he can go back to Sat Lok, triumphing
over Kal.
When does a Sadhu become like an anul bird?
HYMN
When he goes only in the refuge of the Satguru and keeps only one
desire-of Naam;
When he keeps himself in the service of the Satguru day and night,
and has no desire for wealth and property;
PROLOGUE
When he forgets son, wife, and all the enjoyments and keeps himself
attached to Satguru's feet.
[Then he becomes like an anul bird.]
What does the Master give to such a Sadhu?
With the grace of the Satguru he gets relief from the unbearable
pain and achieves Sat Lok.
How does one get to the Motionless Plane?
COUPLET
By remaining in the Master's remembrance, in thought, word,
and deed, and by obeying the orders of the Master-
Master gives one who does this the gift of liberation and merges him
in Naam.
The greatness of merging in Naam
As long as the jiva doesn't merge himself in Naam, he wanders in
this world.
When he contemplates on the Formless and merges into Naam, all
his doubts go away.
If he merges into Naam even for a moment, Its greatness cannot be
described.
Everybody talks about Naam but rare ones achieve the formless
Naam.
Even if one lives in Kashi for ages, without the Essential Shabda
he will go to hell.
Nimkhar, Badri Dham, Gaya or Prayag-even if he bathes in these
holy places,
And goes to all the sixty-eight places of pilgrimage, yet without the
Essential Shabda illusion cannot go away.
What can I say further about that Naam, repeating which the fear
of Yama goes away?
What does one get who receives Naarn?
One who gets Sat Naam from the Satguru goes to Sat Lok climbing
the rope of Naam.
Dharam Rai bows his head to him whose soul merges into the elementless.
What is the Essential Shabda?
The Essential Shabda is a bodiless form. The Essential Shabda is
beautiful, wordless.


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## Astroboy (Jul 22, 2008)

PROLOGUE 15
The body has elements and nature: The Essential Shabda is elementless
and bodiless.
In all four directions Shabda is talked about-only the Essential
Shabda can liberate the souls.
The Naam of Sat Purush Itself is the Essential Shabda and the Simran
of Sat Purush is the Essential Shabda's recognition.
One who merges into It without doing the Simran by tongue-even
Kal is afraid of him.
The path of the Essential Shabda is subtle, easy and perfect; but
only the brave can follow it.
PROLOGUE
It is neither a word, nor a simran, nor a japa. It is a perfect thing,
achieving which one can conquer Kal.
The support of the soul is in the head, and now I will tell you of the
recognition of Shabda.
One who gets connected with the Unrepeated Repetitiong gets to see
the infinite-petaled lotus.
When he reaches the astral door, he [ultimately] goes to Agam and
Agochar [by way of] the True Path.
His inner Self-where Adi Purush resides-gets enlightened.
Recognizing Him, the soul goes to Him-and He takes the soul to
its origin.
The soul is of the same essence as Sat Purush and is also called Jiva-
Sohang.
Dharam Das, you are a wise saint. Recognize that Shabda
which gives liberation.

HYMN
Repeat the Unrepeated and with the grace of the perfect Master,
test it.
Keeping the wing of mind at rest, see the Shabda; and, climbing the
mind, finish your Karma.
Reach the place where the Sound is produced without tongue and
the rosary beads are moved without hands:
Merging into the Essential Shabda, go to the world of immortality.
COUPLET
The glory of the Inconceivable is limitless-millions of suns and
moons cannot vie with one hair.
The radiance of one soul is equal to the light of sixteen suns.
The jubilation of Dhararn Das:
0 God, I sacrifice myself at Your Feet. Removing my pain, You
have made me happy.
Hearing Your words I am as happy as a blind man given eyes.

PROLOGUE 17
Kabir said:
Dharam Das, you are a pure soul, who, meeting with me, have removed
your pain.
Just as you have loved me, leaving your wealth, home and sons,
In the same way, the disciples who will do this and, with determination
will attach their mind to Master's Feet,
And will manifest love within themselves for Master's Feet, sacrificing
their body, mind and wealth on the Satguru-
They will be most dear to me, and no one can ever stop them.
The disciples who won't sacrifice everything, and keep fraud in
their hearts while showing love on their faces,
How can they go to Sat Lok? Without manifesting Master within
they cannot achieve Me.
Dharam Das ' confession of gratefulness:
All this you have done, my God; I was very dirty.
Showering grace on me You Yourself came to me and, holding my
hand, have saved me from Kal.

THE END


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## spnadmin (Jul 22, 2008)

NamJap ji,

Correct me if I am wrong. But the story of Bhagat Kabir's passing is identical to the janamsakhi of Guru Nanak's passing. 
_
KABIR'S PASSING
When Kabir was ready to leave, it is said that his Hindu and Muslim
disciples were prepared to fight over whether his body should be
cremated or buried. After rebuking them sternly for forgetting his
teachings so soon, he lay down, covered himself with sheets, and told
everyone 1 o leave. When they came back into the room, his body was
gone; where it had been was a heap of flowers. His Muslim followers
took half of the flowers and buried them, and his Hindu disciples took
the other half and burned them. 

_So I am wondering if the people at the spiritualawakening.com link realize this or whether some other issue or problem is at work. In other words, they may have gotten the text of two stories mixed up? Does the story of the passing of Kabir match up on other sites and sources? As one who has researched somewhat the hymns and life of Sant Kabir, I cannot remember there being an account of his passing, except for the spiritualawakening.com site. There is almost no primary historical evidence to document the life of Kabir, and most scholars support the conclusion, that much of what we know, we know from legend only. 
*
Guru Nanak's Passing*

_The philosophy, teaching and principles of many faith traditions are revealed in the telling of stories. Some are historical. Many may not have happened exactly as they’re told. But they are none the less unerringly true.

An example is the story of the death of Guru Nanak, founder of Sikhism. According the some versions of the story, as Nanak’s impending death became apparent a dispute arose among his disciples as to what should be done with the body. Those with a Hindu background spoke of cremation. Those with a Muslim background spoke of burial. The disagreement became quite sharp. Nanak had a plan to settle the dispute. "When I die," he said, "lay me out on the bier. Have the Hindus place flowers on one side of my body. Have the Muslims place flowers on the other side of my body. Close the door and leave me alone through the night. The next morning whosever flowers are fresh is how to dispose of my body. If the Hindus' flowers are fresh and the Muslims' flowers are wilted, then burn the body. If the Muslims' flowers are fresh and the Hindus' flowers are wilted, then bury the body."

A few day later Guru Nanak died. His body was placed on the table. The Hindus placed flowers on one side of the body. The Muslims placed flowers on the other side. The door was closed and they waited through the night. The next morning the disciples went in to prepare the body for either cremation or burial. Whose flowers would be fresh and whose would be wilted? To their amazement neither set of flowers was wilted. Both were fresh. But it didn’t matter because the body was gone. _http://www.worldreligions.ca/blog/news/2006/11/nanaks-death.html
*
This is the actual account of Guru Nanak's passing written by Macauliffe, in History of the Sikhs. 

* _Guru Nanak went and sat under a withered acacia tree, when lo! it became green, and produced leaves and blossoms. Angad again fell at his feet in adoration. Guru Nanak's family, relations, and disciples began to weep. On that occasion he composed the following:--

_ _Hail to the Creator, the True King, who allotted to the world its various duties!
When the measure[1] is full, the duration of life is at an end; the soul is led away;
When the destined hour arriveth, the soul is led away and all one's relations weep.
The body and soul are separated, O my mother, when one's days are at an end.
Thou hast obtained what was allotted thee, and reaped the fruit of thy former acts.
Hail to the Creator, the True King, who allotted to the world its various duties!
Remember the Lord, O my brethren; all must depart.
The affairs of this world are transitory, only for four days; we must assuredly proceed onwards:
We must assuredly proceed onwards like a guest; why should we be proud?_
_Repeat the name of Him by whose worship thou shalt obtain happiness in His court.
In the next world thou canst in no wise enforce thine authority; every one shall fare according to his acts.
Remember the Lord, my brethren, every one must depart.
That which pleaseth the Omnipotent shall come to pass this world is an illusion.
The true Creator pervadeth sea and land, the nether regions, and the firmament.
The true Creator is invisible, unequalled; His limit cannot be found.
Profitable is their advent into this world who have meditated with their whole hearts upon Him.
The Adorner by His order demolisheth and again constructeth.
That which pleaseth the Omnipotent shall come to pass this world is an illusion.
Saith Nanak, O Father, they shall be considered to have wept who weep through love.
If men weep for the sake of worldly things, all their weeping, O Father, shall be in vain:
All their weeping shall be in vain; the world is not mindful of God, and weepeth for mammon.
They know not good from evil, and thus lose their human lives.
All who come into this world must depart; false are you who practise pride.
Saith Nanak, men shall be considered to have wept, O Father, if they weep through love.[1]_   (Macauliffe's translation)

_this the assembled crowd began to sing songs of mourning, and the Guru fell into a trance. When he awoke therefrom, his sons, on seeing a stranger appointed to succeed their father, inquired what provision had been made for themselves. Guru Nanak replied, 'O my sons, God giveth to His creatures; you shall obtain food and clothing in abundance, and if you repeat God's name you shall be saved at last.'

_ _The Musalmans who had received God's name from the Guru, said they would bury him after his death. His Hindu followers on the contrary said they would cremate him. When the Guru was invited to decide the discussion he said, 'Let the Hindus place flowers on my right, and the Musalmans on my left. They whose flowers are found fresh in the morning, may have the disposal of my body.' Guru Nanak then ordered the crowd to sing the Sohila:--

_ _In the house in which God's praise is sung and He is meditated on,
Sing the Sohila and remember the Creator.
Sing the Sohila of my fearless Lord; I am a sacrifice to that song of joy by which everlasting comfort is obtained.
Ever and ever living things are watched over; the Giver regardeth their wants.
When even Thy gifts cannot be appraised, who can appraise the Giver?
The year and the auspicious time for marriage[1] are recorded; O relations, meet and pour oil on me the bride.[2]
O my friends, pray for me that I may meet my Lord.
This message is ever sent to every house; such invitations are ever issued.
Remember the Caller; Nanak, the day is approaching.[3] _(also Macauliffe's translation) _The concluding slok of the Japji was then sung. The Guru drew a sheet over 'him, uttered 'Wahguru', made obeisance to God, and blended his light with Guru Angad's. The Guru remained the same. There was only a change of body produced by a supreme miracle.

_ _When the sheet was removed next morning, there was nothing found beneath it. The flowers on both sides ere in bloom. The Hindus and the Musalmans removed their respective flowers. All the Sikhs reverently saluted the spot on which the Guru had lain. He breathed his last on the tenth day of the light half of the month of Assu, Sambat 1595 (A.D. 1538) at Kartarpur in the Panjab._



So I am verily puzzled by the account of Kabir's death.


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## Astroboy (Jul 23, 2008)

Aad Ji,

Is it really true that Kabir liberated his Guru ?

It is like water travelling upstream !!?!!


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## spnadmin (Jul 23, 2008)

NamJap ji

I am still stuck on why the story about the passing of Kabir is virtually identical to the passing of Guru Nanaak.  How did the authors derive this information? It is the first time that I have encountered this version of Kabir's passing and I am curious about the source. To me it looks like heavy borrowing from Sikhism and in order to prop up the legitimacy of Kabir's teachings in the eyes of Sikhs. While at the same time undermining the fundamental core of Kabir's work.

As you know I am not one to say that because we worship the same God we can therefore mute the distinctions of one panth contrasted to another panth. Never believed that if we blurr the differences that love peace and tolerance will break out all over the earth. Never bought that argument.


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## Astroboy (Jul 23, 2008)

> To me it looks like heavy borrowing from Sikhism and in order to prop up the legitimacy of Kabir's teachings in the eyes of Sikhs. While at the same time undermining the fundamental core of Kabir's work.



Thank You for bring this to my attention. I too have begun to view matters from your viewpoint. Today we have persons who are qualified to assess and scrutinize facts to separate fact from fiction. Bravo!
:happy: ...that reminds me not to accept write ups like this at face value. The actual Anurag Sagar isn't this version at all. This version has been doctored and I have left out the heavy doses of Santmat references from it.  But it is good to understand certain matters which have been lost from present-day Sikhism just for comparing the facts to derive at the most common-sense information.


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## spnadmin (Jul 23, 2008)

NamJap ji

You had a dilemma. How much can you remove? If you remove too much then the overall perspective of the document ceases to be what it is in fact. Actually, I did not think you were confused about the facts. It looked like something slipped through. What is now clear is why the one of the authors is a "Singh." Wow!

Anyway -- yes, I agree. Sifting through arguments and counter-claims made by various religions in a respectful but analytic way without becoming incensed and insulted is a good way to proceed.


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## Astroboy (Jul 23, 2008)

Here's another Singh author of anurag sagar - another offshoot of the santmat.


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]*Preface*

'Anurag Sagar' is the most famous book of Kabir Sahib. Questions about the creation of universe asked by Dhani Dharam Dass, the main disciple of Kabir Sahib, have been given in this book. And in reply Kabir Sahib has given a complete description of the creation of universe. Kabir Sahib says that in the beginning God was in deep thoughtless meditation and there was nothing else except 'Him'. The five elements had not manifested. Neither was this universe, nor any soul. All this (manifested universe) was within God. This state has also been described by Guru Nanak as follows:
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=+2]*¥ÚUÕÎ ÙÚUÕÎ Ïé¢ÏêXWæÚUæH ÏÚUç‡æ Ù »»Ùæ ãéUXW×é ¥ÂæÚUæH
Ùæ çÎÙé ÚñUçÙ Ù ¿¢Îé Ù âêÚUÁéH âé¢Ù â×æçÏ Ü»æ§ÎæH*[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=+2]*(¥æçÎ »ý¢Í Âë. v®xz)*[/SIZE][/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]​He further explains that God thought of creating the universe and the 'Word' emanated from Him. This led to all the creation below Sat Lok. First of all, Satpurush created sixteen sons (sixteen manifestations or powers), Niranjan being one of them. Saints name him 'Kaal' or Brahm. He (Kaal or Brahm) worshiped Satpurush for 70 yugas and obtained in reward his right for a separate creation. Again he (Kaal) worshipped for 64 yugas and obtained a huge number of souls from Satpurush and in collaboration with primal Maya (Shakti) the three main Gods, Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh were created. To these four i.e. Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh and primal force Maya, was given the control of all the creation below Sat Lok. He (Niranjan or Kaal) was then completely absorbed in the meditation of Satpurush and primal force Maya was instructed not to reveal his (Kaal's) identity to his three children. Guru Nanak Sahib also describes this as follows:
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica] 
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica] [SIZE=+2]*¥ÚUÕÎ ÙÚUÕÎ Ïé¢ÏêXWæÚUæH ÏÚUç‡æ Ù »»Ùæ ãéUXW×é ¥ÂæÚUæH
Ùæ çÎÙé ÚñUçÙ Ù ¿¢Îé Ù âêÚUÁéH âé¢Ù â×æçÏ Ü»æ§ÎæH*[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=+2]*(¥æçÎ »ý¢Í Âë. v®xz)*[/SIZE]​[/FONT]

He further explains that God thought of creating the universe and the 'Word' emanated from Him. This led to all the creation below Sat Lok. First of all, Satpurush created sixteen sons (sixteen manifestations or powers), Niranjan being one of them. Saints name him 'Kaal' or Brahm. He (Kaal or Brahm) worshiped Satpurush for 70 yugas and obtained in reward his right for a separate creation. Again he (Kaal) worshipped for 64 yugas and obtained a huge number of souls from Satpurush and in collaboration with primal Maya (Shakti) the three main Gods, Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh were created. To these four i.e. Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh and primal force Maya, was given the control of all the creation below Sat Lok. He (Niranjan or Kaal) was then completely absorbed in the meditation of Satpurush and primal force Maya was instructed not to reveal his (Kaal's) identity to his three children. Guru Nanak Sahib also describes this as follows:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica] 
Primal force Maya gave creation of this universe to Brahma, sustenance of the universe to Vishnu and destruction of the universe to Mahesh. After this Niranjan (Kaal) having created four Vedas and various religions through Brahma, started his own worship by all the souls. The souls were so beguiled that they forgot their real 'Home' and real 'Master'. The mind was associated with all the souls and they were so entangled in various 'Karam-Kand' (Rituals) that no soul of its own could escape to his real home. And the souls were governed by severe punishments.
Satpurush was moved to see the souls in grief and first of all asked his enlightened soul (Kabir Sahib) to go and free the souls from the clutches of Kaal and bring them to Him. Under the orders of Satpurush, Kabir Sahib appeared as Sat Sukrit in Satyuga and counseled a few souls for the real worship of Satpurush. Kaal told Kabir Sahib that he (Kabri Sahib) could not enter his kingdom. Kabir Sahib said that he was going under the orders of Satpurush to awaken the souls and if he (Kaal) tried to stop him, he (Kabir Sahib) could destroy his kingdom in a moment. Hearing this Kaal said, "I am governing through your grace only. Before going, please promise that you will not show any miracle to the souls to follow you. You will hold satsangs (spiritual discourses) for enlightenment and for preaching. You may make any soul your follower if he accepts  
your sayings." And Kabir Sahib gave him this boon. Had this boon been not given, how easy it would have been for the saints to make the souls their followers by showing miracles.
Kabir Sahib has described all the four yugas in this book. "Kaal Mat" (or the path of the Kaal) and "Dyaal Mat" (or the path of the Saints) have been described in detail. I have been listening to this teaching since childhood in the satsangs of Baba Bagga Singh ji, Baba Deva Singh ji and Baba Pratap Singh ji.
There was a lot of demand from the devotees that the secrets of Anurag Sagar, Kaalmat and Dayalmat may be explained. So with the grace of Baba ji, I have started delivering satsangs serially on this teaching. And an attempt has been made so that the teachings of Anurag Sagar reach the devotees. These satsangs have been taped recorded and the devotees are already listening to these tapes. Now these satsangs are being offered to the devotees in the form of a book. I hope that the devotees will benefit fully from this effort.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Tarn Taran
July 21, 1998[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Das
Kehar Singh[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]​[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica] [/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]


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## Astroboy (Jul 23, 2008)

First of all praying at the feet of his true master, Kabir Sahib humbly submits that he himself has no power to say anything or write anything. Yes, he can write a book like Anurag Sagar only if his true master gives him the power. Therefore he says that he bows thousand times at the feet of his master who told him the secret of 'Agam' (when soul descends from Anami desh, then come two stations called Alakh and Agam). The true master enabled him to do spiritual practice by initiating him to 'Word' or sound current. Thus he could take his consciousness from Pind (region below the eyes) to 'eye centre' and see the effulgent form of the master and whole Brahmand, full of light. Kabir further says that earlier he would see darkness on closing his eyes but now he sees light instead of darkness. Enlightened by his true master now, he can see the light of a Jyoti (flame). Only his true master has given him the power to succeed and see God. Kabir Sahib says "the true master initiated me to 'Naam', made me repeat it and took me to Daswan Dwar to take bath in 'Amritsar', taught me the technique to wash off the dirt to countless births and enabled me to see that form of God which we cannot see with our eyes or hear with our ears or reach Him with these feet or worship him with these hands."​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica] Kabir further says, "With the grace of Sat Guru, I have met God by concentrating upon word. I have merged in Him. The soul has become God just as a weather drop becomes sea by merging in it. Now the soul tastes the 'Amrit', the like of which does not exist on earth." Many things of this world like Sugar etc. are sweet, but their sweetness is nothing when compared to the sweetness of the 'Word'.
"My Sat Guru is a Saviour, a see of mercy. But a few only recognize Him. He reveals the secret of N¢am or word to him who recognizes Him. A diamond is valued only by a goldsmith." Once a potter found a diamond in the soil and he tied it around the neck of his donkey. He went to a shopkeeper along with the donkey. The shopkeeper asked the potter the source of this shining thing. The potter said he found it in the soil. The shopkeeper said "It is very beautiful. Please give it to me." The shopkeeper paid the potter ten rupees for the diamond and shopkeeper's wife tied it to the weighing balance. One day a goldsmith visited the shopkeeper. On seeing the diamond, he thought that it must be worth a crore of rupees. He paid the shopkeeper twenty rupees and took the diamond and in turn sold it for a crore rupees in the bazaar. Hence only a goldsmith could recognize a diamond.​
Similarly rare is the person who recognizes a Sat Guru having knowledge of the 'Word'. Only sixteen persons were initiated to 'Word' in Satyug and 22 in Treta yuga by Kabir. There is no such record for Dwapur yuga. But many persons recognized Satpurush in this Kalyuga. 
One who recognizes a Sat Guru, listens to his teachings with full attention, accepts Him from the heart and obeys his orders. During his tour, Kabir once met a sweet seller sitting proudly in his shop. Mercifully, Kabir said to him "Please come to Satsang." The shopkeeper asked his servant to give two jalebis (sweet) to this hermit. Kabir said "I don't want jalebis." Sweet seller inquired "Then what do you want?"



Simultaneously he ordered his servant to give him a few coins also. Kabir said, 'I don't want money, too." The sweetseller said, "You want neither jalebis, nor money. Then what do you want? It is my time to attend to the customers. Why are you obstructing like this?" Kabir said "Time is very less. Please do come to Satsang." The shopkeeper asked his servants to push him away from the shop. And the servants did likewise. Kabir came to the shop after a few days and said, "Gentleman, now very little time has been left. Come to satsang." The sweetseller said to his servant, "Don't let such persons come to me. Of your own, push them away from sight." The servants turned Kabir out. After seven days, Kabir again came and requested the sweet-seller humbly to attend the Satsang. The servants tried to push him away. Being well-built, Kabir stuck to his place. Then a servant hit him on the head with an iron rod. Kabir's head was broken, the blood was coming out and his clothes were drenched in the blood. But Kabir remained humble and said "Seth Ji, now the time is really very less. Do come to the Satsang." The sweetseller paid no attention to him. After a week when Kabir came again, the sweetseller had already died. Kabir came to the sweetseller mercifully but he did not value his advice. The moral of the story is that only very few people recognize the saints in time, get initiation of the Word and then merge in the Lord through it. Saints come into the world to do good to us. They want to liberate us from this cycle of eighty four. We should not quarrel with them but should get enlightenment from them  
and act on their teachings. The sweetseller would have definitely benefited if he had recognized Saint Kabir. 
Kabir says, "Listen, you have got priceless treasures in your body." You cannot get this treasure without the grace of Sat Guru because the Guru has got the key of this treasure. 
Sat Guru in the form of 'Word' resides in us but He is locked inside and we are sitting outside. Therefore, how can we meet Him? Getting a key of 'Word' from the outside Sat Guru, then practicing It we can reach Him inside. We have to remove the darkness of 'Moh' from inside by the light of the teachings of the Sat Guru. Only then shall we be able to see the priceless treasure inside. Kabir says to Dharam Dass "I am going to write the book "Anurag Sagar". Only a rare great soul will understand its secret or recognize its importance." 

Kabir says "I am going to write the book 'Anurag Sagar'. Very few people will understand its language. Such people will have the burning desire to meet God." Just as Japuji is the key to Granth Sahib, Anurag Sagar is the foundation of Sant Mat, it is a base of Sant Mat. Kabir says, "One who does not understand Anurag Sagar (inner ocean of Love), he will always remain on the periphery of Sant Mat, even though he might think of having gone inside. Therefore I am going to describe everything of the inner worlds". The secret of Nirvan Pad or Sat Lok will be revealed in Anurag Sagar.   
Bowing at the feet of Kabir, Dharam Das begs, "Sat Guru, I have a doubt in my mind. Please remove it. The doubt is, what is Anurag or Love? How does one feel when Love or Anurag sprouts from within? How can we recognize a person who is Anuragi or Love-bitten? All look alike from outside. However some are so powerful that a word from them brings about punishment of death to a person. Devotees of God like Guru Nanak were tormented and put behind bars. How to find whether one is Anuragi (i.e. Lover of God) or not? Yes, at least I do understand that without love, separation, pain and burning desire, one cannot meet God."

[/FONT]


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## Astroboy (Jul 23, 2008)

Kabir says, "Dharam Dass, you have asked the questions, now listen to the answers with full attention. The signs of a person in love with God are soothing. The deer loves sound. The hunter takes advantage of this and plays a sound of its liking. The deer comes running and places its head in the lap of the hunter. The deer has the least doubt that it has reached in the lap of the hunter and that the hunter will butcher it. It is not afraid of that. The love, the attachment of sound created detachment in the deer and it came running after the sound. This is an example of Anurag or love. This is a story from Lyalpur and its deputy commissioner who belonged to Sialkot. His old mother was fond of going to Baisakhi festival and dancing there. When Baisakhi festival came, she asked her son to take her to the festival as she was not sure of her lasting to live for the next festival. Deputy commissioner said, "Mother, you will start dancing on reaching the festival & this will bring shame (insult) to me." The mother said, "You take me there, I will not dance." But on reaching there, hearing the beat of the drum, she could not control herself and started dancing. The people were stunned to see this old lady dancing with such a force. Some one recognized her and said that she was the mother of the D.C.

People caught hold of her and put her in the car. The moral of the story is that when a person is detached (from the surrounding), he looses her awareness/consciousness. This loss of consciousness is called Anurag or love. He is not afraid of social shame and his Guru's attention compels him to come running for a 'darshan'. This Anurag (or love) manifests in Sahaj state. 
Anuragi people are recognized of their own. The moth does go to the lantern whether it belongs to rich or poor. Reaching the lantern, it might burn itself. Anuragi (or lovers of God) are similarly attracted to the Saints and they come running to them. Kabir further says that the Anuragi gets initiation from a living saint, practices Naam, sees light inside and contacts his Guru in the form of sound current. Only the liberated one liberates. Guru Sahib says, "I have contacted a Guru who is a liberated one and He can also liberate me from this round of eighty four (i.e. births & deaths)." Guru Amar Dass says: 
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica] [SIZE=+2]*ÙæÙ·¤ ÁèßÎæ ÂéÚU¹é çÏ¥æ§¥æ ¥×ÚUæÂÎé ãUô§ü*[/SIZE] 
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=+2]*(¥æ.»ý¢. Âë. vwy|)*[/SIZE] [/FONT]​

It means that I got initiation from a living Saint, practiced Naam and then 'Word'- manifested - Guru caught hold of me from the arm and took me along with Him. This is the sign of a Guru that He takes the disciple out of the darkness and shows him the light within.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]  
In olden times, the wife would burn herself on the pyre of her dead husband. During burning, the woman would not move her body at all. Due to separation from her husband, she alone would burn herself leaving behind property money and friends. People would bring her son to her and tell her that he would die without her. They would attempt to create in her an attachment for him by reminding her that the house would be empty without her. They would further tell her that her husband had left a lot of property. She would not face any hardship in life and she ought to save the destruction of home. The relatives would cry but she had only one thing in her mind - love of her husband. Nothing appealed to her except her husband & she would sit in the pyre to burn herself. All relatives asked her to come back to home but she would not listen as the love of her husband attracted her.
Dharam Dass! the woman was persuaded in so many different ways but nothing affected her. She would say, "After living for a while, one has to die. At death time, all these things will not help. Then why not die now with my husband." 

She advised her friends and said, "All of you, too, should understand my views and should live at the feet of your husband when he dies, i.e., burn yourself along with him." 
Another example is that of the king Bhartarihari. When king Bhartarihari went to palace from his 'Darbar', the queen inquired about the cause of his sadness. The king said, "There is nothing to worry." The queen persisted and the king said that he saw today an event which he had not seen before. My minister died today. When his pyre was lit, his wife placed his head in her lap and burnt herself along with him. Hearing this, the queen said, "How should a faithful woman behave according to you?" The queen inquired about the time of death of the Minister. The king told her that he died at 10 a.m. The queen again asked, "And when was he cremated?" "At 4p.m.", the king replied. The queen said, "How could she remain alive from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m.? The wife is faithful only if she gives up her life as soon as the husband dies." The king thought that the queen is telling a lie. She should be tested. The king went on thinking about this matter for two months. And then one day, he tore his clothes, sprinkled some blood on them and asked his minister to give these clothes to his wife with the information that the king had died during hunting. The minister came to the queen and said, "O, queen! these are king's clothes." The queen recognized the clothes and inquired about the details. The minister said, "It is not worth telling." The queen persisted and the minister said, "The king had an encounter with a lion and the lion killed......." And she collapsed and gave up her life the moment she heard the word 'killed'. The king came running. The doctors were called but it was too late. The king was sad that. He thought that he would not get so good a wife in the world now. The relatives said that they wanted a heir to the throne who could run thegovernment. The king married again. He respected the second queen as much as the first one. One day a Saint gave the king an "amarfal" and said, "You will always remain young, O'king, if you eat this fruit." The king thought that he was already past the prime of his life and it would be of no use to become young now. He, therefore, gave this fruit to his wife and said, "Eat this fruit and you will always remain young." The queen said, "I shall eat it in the morning." The queen was in love with the mahout. She took the fruit to him and said, "By eating this amar fruit I will remain youthful while you will grow old and I won't like this. So take this fruit and eat it." The mahout said, "I was attending to elephants the whole day and lot of dirt is sticking to me. I shall take a bath & then eat it." This mahout in turn was in love with a prostitute. He went to her in the night and said, "This is amar fruit. Eat it. It will keep you youthful & beautiful." The prostitute also said that she would take it after the bath. Then this prostitute started thinking that if she ate this fruit, she would remain entangled in this lustful life throughout her life. She thought of the religious nature of the king and decided that she would offer this fruit to him so that he could practice religion and devotion to God for a long time. Thus within 24 hours the amar fruit was back to the king. The king asked the prostitute, "Who gave this fruit?" She said that the mahout had given it to her. On enquiry, the mahout said that the queen had given it to him. The queen said that she ate the fruit as soon as the king gave it to her. When the king threatened, the queen said that she loved the mahout and therefore gave the fruit to him. And the mahout admitted of his love for the prostitute and hence he gave the fruit to her. Then the king started accusing himself, "I may be cursed a lakh (100,000) times for I did not eat this fruit myself. And the queen be cursed crore (10,000,000) times for she gave up the love of a king for a mahout. The mahout in turn be cursed arab (1,000,000,000) times for he preferred a prostitute to the

continued here : Anurag Sagar Part - I
[/FONT][/FONT]


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## Parma (Jul 23, 2008)

Sikh = Learning. Is that not what all life is each day you develop to be what you are. I guess you are never fully developed into being who you are until the moment you die.


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## Astroboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Sikh = Learning

One must never shy away from learning what other sects are teaching because the more we learn the more we understand that these teachings came from elsewhere. So no matter how much endorsement santmat lays on the teachings of Kabir, they are never santmat's originals. 

Paul Twitchell has been said to have plagarised his writings from santmat, the same can be said about santmat. They heavily borrow from Kabir Panth and Sikhism.


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## spnadmin (Jul 24, 2008)

NamJap ji

And the lesson learned is the importance of having all the information possible so that it can be evaluated. And to sharpen one's intellectual equipment in order to evaluate. The only alternatives are to run away from an issue for fear of being somehow dirtied by it, or to let some other person tell you what to think. 

A forum like SPN is at its best when all the information is laid out and anyone who wishes to be part of a discussion is not discouraged by the mind-sets of other people.


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## Astroboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Truly said, SPN doesn't claim to be a gurdwara or a representative of any orthodox religion, therefore all facts presented can be carefully assessed and re-assessed just like the way the archeologists treat their findings.

Now this is getting jucier, because Paul Twitchell also used the phrase *Ocean of Love and Mercy* in his books. This is a good write up of Paul Twitchel l:-

A short biography of Paul Twitchell


After Paul died, the next master of Eckankar was *Darwin Gross*. But there is no reference about him in the present literature of Eckankar. Even Paul's books are out of circulation. There seems to be a cover up. Here is an account of Darwin Gross and the humiliation he went thru - the real story :-

DGTF


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## spnadmin (Jul 24, 2008)

NamJap ji

You have done some deep excavation. The ideas of Paul Twitchell are shall we say, "remarkable." In line with the Oneness theme members might want to take a look at some of these teachings. Even take a look at the web site.


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## Astroboy (Jul 24, 2008)

> The ideas of Paul Twitchell are shall we say, "remarkable."


I have read 80% of Paul Twitchell's books and remarkable is the right word, really.


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## pk70 (Jul 24, 2008)

(QuoteParma Jio)Sikh = Learning. Is that not what all life is each day you develop to be what you are.
*Sikh’s learning starts with a goal, an evolution of soul, if that doesn’t occur, learning and all associated words with it, are empty even though look decorated philosophically. Improvement is not final goal, evolution is.  *

   I guess you are never fully developed into being who you are until the moment you die.
*Very depressing statement, often quoted by those scholars who have little or no knowledge of spiritual experience. Certainly the ones with elevated spiritual experience will laugh at it. Learning is it self nothing if there is no progression and goal is not obtained. In a race all participants run but all do not win, does it mean, all others should give up thinking" we all are not going to win, lets give up hopes" No offense, this is the way I feel after reading your nice statements.*


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## Canuck Singh (Jul 24, 2008)

aad0002 said:


> NamJap ji
> 
> You have done some deep excavation. The ideas of Paul Twitchell are shall we say, "remarkable." In line with the Oneness theme members might want to take a look at some of these teachings. Even take a look at the web site.




 Who is this Paul Twitcell character whom I have heard referenced several times? :hmm:


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## spnadmin (Jul 24, 2008)

Canuck Singh said:


> Who is this Paul Twitcell character whom I have heard referenced several times? :hmm:



Veer ji,

_*Twitchell, Paul.* The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master   from 1965 until his translation    from the physical in 1971; he   brought the modern teachings   of  Eckankar to  the peoples of the world through his many books, lectures, and writings;  as the spiritual head of Eckankar, he brought new life and hope to thousands.  [Also known as Paulji or Peddar Zaskq.]

Paul Twitchell is the founder of a new religion called Ekankar. Does that look familiar to you? You can find information about him on the Internet. Here is a link from Wikipedia:

Source http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/

_You can also refer to:Paul Twitchell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The issues raised in this belief system however are problematic for some; and would be a concern to any Sikh who believes that there is one God, and that God does not incarnate - ever, never. In my humble opinion, this is another example of how ideas are freely borrowed/harvested  from several traditions and mixed together to form a new _panth_ (so to speak). Because the ideas embedded in Ekankar are borrowed from traditions like Sant Mat or sound like concepts of Sikhi, the new panth assumes for itself a certain legitimacy (shall we way). The results can be puzzling. I am being diplomatic when I say this.

Eckankar calls itself a religion of light and the sound of God. Yes, light (jyote) and sound (naad). *Yet it is registered as a corporation.* It's leaders assume the title "Sri" and holy scriptures are guarded for thousands of years by living masters on other planes like the planet Venus. 

I do not consider Ekankar in any way similar to a sect of an established religion (e.g., Nihangs within Sikhi); nor do I consider it a subdivision within a larger family of religions (e.g., Anglicans, Lutherans, Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholics belonging to the apostolic/episcopal tradition within Christianity). Forgive me.


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## Astroboy (Jul 25, 2008)

*http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2006/12/jr_puri_commits.html
*



*J.R. Puri commits plagiarism in a RSSB book*



> this is another example of how ideas are freely borrowed/harvested  from several traditions and mixed together to form a new _panth_ (so to speak).


The tables have been turned. David Lane (a.k.a. the Neural Surfer) has documented how Paul Twitchell , the founder of Eckankar, massively plagiarized from books published by Radha Soami Satsang Beas (notably Julian Johnson’s “Path of the Masters”).
  But I've discovered that at least one Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB) author is guilty of his own plagiarizing. A few days ago I was reading along in a book that I’d gotten myself for Christmas, “Meister Eckhart: Mystic as Theologian” by Robert K.C. Forman.
  On page 102 I came to a quotation from W.T. Stace. It seemed awfully familiar.Suppose that, after having got rid of all sensations, one should go on to exclude from consciousness all sensuous images, and then all abstract thoughts, reasoning processes, volitions, and other particular mental contents, what would there then be left of consciousness? There would be no mental content whatever but rather a complete emptiness, vacuum, void. One would suppose _a priori_ that consciousness would then entirely lapse and one would fall asleep or become unconscious. 
  But the introvertive mystics—thousands of them all over the world—unanimously assert that they have attained to this complete vacuum of particular mental contents, but that what then happens is quite different from a lapse into unconsciousness.
  On the contrary, what emerges is a state of _pure_ consciousness—“pure” in the sense that it is not the consciousness of any empirical content. It has no content except itself.​It was familiar because I’d quoted almost the exact same passage in my first book, “God’s Whisper, Creation’s Thunder.” I’d found it in J.R. Puri’s “Guru Nanak: His Mystic Teachings,” published by RSSB (page 59).Having eliminated all sensations, the mystic next excludes from consciousness all sensuous images, and then all abstract thoughts, reasoning, processes, volitions, and particular mental contents. One may ask, what then would be left of consciousness? In the absence of any mental content whatsoever, there would be a complete emptiness, a void, a vacuum. One would suppose _a priori_ that consciousness would then entirely lapse and one would fall asleep or become unconscious.
  But the introvertive mystics unanimously assert—and there are thousands of them all over the world—that they have attained to a complete vacuum of particular mental contents, and what then emerges is a state of pure consciousness.
  It is pure in the sense that it is not the consciousness of any empirical content. It has no content except itself. ​So, who is the plagiarizer? Obviously, J.R. Puri. W.T. Stace’s “Mysticism and Philosophy” was published in 1960. “Guru Nanak” was published in 1982. Shame on you, Mr. Puri! 
  Yet you couldn't even plagiarize competently, adding an extra comma between "reasoning" and "processes" that confused me every time I read the passage. 
  I can’t stand plagiarism. I’ve written three books and have gone to considerable lengths to give credit where credit is due, quotation wise. I’m not the most organized author. Sometimes I’d include a quote in a draft, then fail to footnote it on the spot because I figured I’d never forget the source.
  But I would. Then I’d have to spend a lot of time searching through my library, looking for the quoted passage. My commitment to crediting quotes is so deep, I almost always mention the author’s name in association with a quotation, rather than simply including a numbered footnote.
  What was Puri thinking? I try to imagine him working on his book. He’s a long-time disciple of a RSSB guru who emphasized “honest living.” Yet he copies almost verbatim from Stace’s book, giving Stace absolutely no credit for ideas that Puri implied were his own.
  When I used to give talks on behalf of RSSB I’d occasionally cite the passage from Puri’s book. I liked it a lot. I still do, but now I know that whoever else Puri was, he was a plagiarist. Apparently he lacked sufficient mystical understanding of his own and needed to borrow from Stace. 
  I found much of W.T. Stace’s book online, courtesy of Dave Woodward. The material plagiarized by Puri is in the “Introvertive Mysticism” section (Puri also shamelessly copied that title, along with some other prefatory language).
  Now I can’t help but wonder how much unattributed copying is present in other RSSB books. I’ve written one myself (“Life is Fair”) and can say that my book is clean. However, who knows about the many other titles published by Radha Soami Satsang Beas? 
  For a long time I thought that these books had more credibility than most other mystical literature. Increasingly I’m thinking differently, especially after coming across this plagiarism. Again, I find it difficult to understand how someone with so many years of meditation and spiritual devotion under his belt could so easily steal another writer’s words. 
  Yet at the same time I also find it easy to understand. 
  Organized religions like Radha Soami Satsang Beas emphasize outward rather than inward spirituality, notwithstanding the lip service paid to direct mystical experience. Most RSSB initiates simply go through the motions, like the vast majority of other religious believers.
  Such as J.R. Puri. I don’t know if he is still alive. If he is, I’d like to learn how he explains his plagiarism. Which is, whatever the reason, inexcusable.
  Astoundingly, the book jacket of “Guru Nanak” says about Puri:The author has also lucidly brought forth the close relationship that exists between the mystic experience and ethics as well as religion, drawing on his rich background in Western philosophy. The mystic experience has been shown to be the cause as also the effect of ethical living.​It seems that plagiarism also is the effect of mystical experience. Or at least the ability to write about mysticism. Also astounding is the fact that Puri spent a lot of time in academia, which puts much emphasis on crediting your sources.Prof. J.R. Puri was head of the Department of Philosophy, Punjabi University, Patiaia from 1969 to 1976. Earlier, he was head of the post-graduate Department of Philosophy, Mahendra College, Patiaia for more than a decade. After his retirement as a teacher of philosophy for more than thirty-five years, his present interest centers mainly on the study and practice of mysticism.​Well, when that was written I think Puri needed a lot more practice. Not at plagiarizing—he was already expert at that. But at the ethics that supposedly accompanies mystic experience.
  [12/30 update: Here's a scan of the pages in question. Several commenters to this post have claimed that the mention of Stace on page 58 somehow absolves the plagiarism on page 59. That's ridiculous. 



Puri mentions both Walter Stace and Rudolf Otto on page 58. And he gives no indication on page 59 that the third paragraph is cribbed directly from Stace's book. *Puri simply changed a few words. Yet he gives no credit to Stace.* As I noted in a comment of my own, according to the Indiana University Campus Writing Program, this is a textbook case of plagiarism.
  Am I making too much of this? Maybe. But what I find as interesting as the plagiarism is the reaction of some Puri defenders. In my opinion, they aren't looking at the facts clearly. Which is precisely my objection to the True Believer


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## Astroboy (Jul 25, 2008)

Jungian psychology points out that institutions (religious, government, medical, you name it) eventually become obstacles to the very purposes for which they were created. They take on a life of their own and survival becomes the first priority. Anyone who questions the institution is a threat, and those who depend on the institution for their livelihood, power, or self-image are likewise threatened and take appropriate action. 
  In the end, perhaps the institution becomes the crucible (or part of it) in which self-realization is forged as one encounters the limitations and flaws of the institution and those in it, including oneself. The more adherents behave in deluded and unenlightened ways, the more opportunities one has for self-inquiry, self-awareness, enlightenment, developing humility, and all that. 

Church of the Churchless: More criticism of Radha Soami Satsang Beas


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## spnadmin (Jul 25, 2008)

*quote: Am I making too much of this? Maybe. But what I find as interesting as the plagiarism is the reaction of some Puri defenders. In my opinion, they aren't looking at the facts clearly. Which is precisely my objection to the True Believer /quote

*No you are not making to much of this. (Or maybe I mean the writer in the blog, but it doesn't matter as you are making the same point rhetorically.)  *A lot more needs to be said in response to your post above. *But starting with the statement quoted above.

 We have to ask ourselves for the sake of our own emotional, psychological, moral and spiritual balance  a question. When we read information about spiritual identity and growth, what are the motivations of the person who wrote the information? Maybe the question cannot be answered with concrete evidence. Who knows what a person's motivations are? But sometimes the agendas are evident -- peddling spirituality leads to followers and followers feed egos and bank accounts. You are compiling a number of examples where something very inspirational and likely to attract those who are seeking to heal spiritual wounds will be moved -- by the words -- and think that the "master" is the source of their sudden insight. When instead the "master" intuitively or directly recognizes the pull that the words have, and manipulates the injured souls. 

Plagiarism is rampant you know.*  And it takes many forms. It goes beyond forgetting to give credit to an original author. It is a form of theft. Could it be that it rises from the plagiarist's own needy ego -- a bottomless pit of need? Power, fame, money, followers?

* Plagiarism is rampant in academia. In academia,  _haumei _is the immediate culprit. But there is another thing to consider always in life. You never look bad when you give credit to another person. One of my professors/mentors told me that and I have never forgotten.


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jul 25, 2008)

there are only 26 alphabets


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## Astroboy (Jul 25, 2008)

What if there were 27 ? It would increase expression of thought, which makes me think why 26 alphabets aren't enough to find the right words to express thoughts which are esoteric in nature. To give a certain portion of plagarism a benefit of the doubt, it is said that one is always at a loss of words so he conveniently borrows another's writings to express what he's experienced. 

But Aad Ji, who can tell for sure if he has had real experience ?
There were at least 22 fakes gurus for every real one. 
This estimate was during the time of the 9th Sikh Master. Today, ਪੁੱਛੋ ਹੀ ਨਾਂ (don't even ask)!!!


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## spnadmin (Jul 25, 2008)

NamJap ji

 ਪੁੱਛੋ ਹੀ ਨਾਂ (don't even ask)!!!

Ok, I won't  Glad you covered it up with script.

Am a bit confused by your question - Whether one can tell if he has had a real experience? Do you mean whether Twitchell has had a real experience, or anyone at all, or any one of the "masters" during the time of the 9th Guru? Can't understand the question.

Maybe I am veering to the wrong side of the highway with my answer, until I am more certain what you mean. But let's say it doesn't matter who 'he' is for the sake of discussion. 

If someone has had a real experience, in the sense that Buddhist's use -- has become a buddh -- now you are a teacher. But a buddh? Is an enlightened person highly motivated to attract students? Sometimes a buddh will refuse to give answers. Sometimes a buddh will even refuse to teach an aspiring student. Discernment rather than personal promotion seems to make a difference. Does that make sense? Correct me if I have missed the point.

One says, "listen to me for I have found it!"  The other waits quietly for the question. My reference for this: Janaamsakhi - Chauda The Cannibal.


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## Astroboy (Jul 25, 2008)

The 22 fake gurus is linked to the sakhi of Makhan Shah Lobhana, who having being deceived by 22 fake gurus, eventually shouted, I have found the real guru - Guru Teg Bahadur Ji. 

This is what you asked 


> Is an enlightened person highly motivated to attract students?


Guru Teg Bahadur definitely did not find any reason to do so. 
Instead he spent alot of time in deep meditation.


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## spnadmin (Jul 25, 2008)

Guru Teg Bahdur did not want to be Guru. If he had done the shouting, I would be suspicious.


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## spnadmin (Jul 25, 2008)

*Discovery of Guru Teg Bahadur*

 As expected, none of the imposters could recognise him, which still left him the problem of having to find the rightful Guru. Then he heard of the solitarian Teg Bahedur, son of Guru Hargobind. Makhan Shah was taken to see him on August 10, 1664 by a local youth. When Makhan placed the two Dinars before Tegh Bahadur, he remarked "God bless you, my man, why only two Dinars after pledging five hundred? The Guru is never in need of any thing but a Sikh is expected to keep his pledge to the Guru." Thus the issue was clinched and the real Guru was discovered by Makhan Shah.

 Makhan Shah proclaimed that he would inform everyone upon discovering the True Guru. Guru Teg Bahadur was still desiring to meditate in solitude and told Makhan Shah not to tell anyone. The Guru tried to discourage him by saying his face would be blackened if he did so. (meaning dishonour will be obtained). Makhan Shah took this as a challenge instead of a curse and put ash on his face and climbed to the roof top to announce to all that he had found the Guru.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhai_Makhan_Shah

A study in waiting quietly for a question.


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## spnadmin (Jul 25, 2008)

A study in teaching morality before teaching enlightenment. Forgive me.


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## Astroboy (Jul 25, 2008)

But today, Gurus have an association to protect them from law suits. 
They constantly seek the company of many people who become their 
agents to increase their bank accounts. 

See what's happening  Eckankar and you'll know.
http://www.geocities.com/eckcult/chapters/tmsm10.html


Look at Prem Rawat and his guru puja ritual. Sabh drama baaj hai. 
Paise Pheko, Tamasha Dekho.
http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/streetlife76.htm


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## spnadmin (Jul 25, 2008)

My suggestion - You have a treasure chest of information and it is building. Do a blog, write a book. Seva to the unwitting who stand to be harmed. Even one soul saved is a big thing in my mind.


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## Astroboy (Jul 25, 2008)

*          An Open Letter to Maharaji from Mike Finch*





​ *Mike Finch was one of the          first Western followers of Maharaji, and in the early years          spent a lot of time in his company. He counted Maharaji as a          close friend, as well as his teacher and Master. Mike still          meditates regularly, and values the extraordinary          experiences that can be achieved through meditation. Mike          originally posted this letter on the public ex-premie forum,          and has requested that it be posted here. 		 

		 This letter, and other essays from Mike about his time with Maharaji, can now also be found on his  personal website. 		 

*
*



*​ 
         Maharaji,

         You are known now to the public as Prem Rawat, but for the          30 or so years that I gave my life to you, I knew you as          Maharaji, or Guru Maharaji, so that is how I will continue          to refer to you.

         I have had a long and involved relationship with you,          ranging from sublime moments of incredible beauty, good          times, mediocre times, through boredom and frustration, to          pain, abuse and feelings of desertion.

         I have withdrawn from you in stages.

         For the 20 years up to 1990, you were my Lord - someone who          could reach into my heart whatever my situation, and rescue          me. I practiced Knowledge almost everyday, and begged and          prayed for your grace to make the Knowledge work, in full          confidence that you could and would do this if I were open          to it. And if it didn't happen, well then I was obviously          not open enough, and needed to surrender to you more.

         In the early 90's, I had my first doubts that you were the          Lord; perhaps you did not control this amazing grace that          could enlighten me. But that was OK, because the Knowledge          was internal, between me and God, and could still take me to          the deepest place; even if your role was just to give the          Knowledge, and remind me of the importance of it          periodically, that was enough.

         In the mid 90's I met you briefly backstage at the Atlantic          City event, and that was the last time I spoke to you. Since          then, the accumulation of 30 years pursuing an impossible          goal - or to be precise, pursuing two goals which are          mutually impossible to fulfill - had become an overbearing          weight from which I had to escape.

         The two goals I refer to that a premie has to fulfill are          these: The inner goal of finding their heart or center, and          the outer goal of being connected with you. The essence of          your message for 30 years has been that you need to pursue          both goals, and that you cannot get one without the          other.

         I see now that achieving these two goals together is an          impossible task. It is quite possible to achieve either goal          on its own. I believe that the first goal, the human search          for ultimate meaning and freedom within the human          consciousness, is both possible and a worthwhile endeavour;          in doing this, other people can be teachers, but no other          person can become the master to whom you dedicate your          life.

         It is also of course possible to attain the second goal - a          connection with you as a person, devotion to you as the          Master. For most premies this meant being near you          physically, or at least having access to you; selling family          and career to be with you at an event on the other side of          the world, selling anything to be seated near you, and so          on. A particularly virulent form of this devotion was the          urge to be in the inner circle around you. During my 30          years as a premie I have observed this phenomenon closely          and intimately - sometimes from the inside, as someone in          the inner circle, but usually from the outside, as someone          who was trying desperately to climb up the ladder to the          inner circle.

         The interesting thing about this phenomenon, is that I          really did not want to be near you, or rub shoulders with          other inner circle players - I only did so because I thought          it was the passport to the first goal of inner contentment.          I now see that it actually prevented inner contentment.          Ironic.

         So that in a nutshell is why I no longer consider you my          master, nor practice your Knowledge. The first goal of inner          discovery I have always wanted, and still want. I took you          as my master to help me fulfill that goal, which you          promised to do; but you introduced another goal, centered          around yourself, which in fact made it impossible to fulfill          the first goal. Unfortunately, for 30 years I accepted your          message that the second goal of a connection or devotion to          you was necessary to attain the first goal.

         To see and logically understand the dynamics of the last 30          years is one thing, but of course there is a lot of emotion          and feeling too. As I have said, there were good times and          profound experiences. At the time, I thought the deep          experiences I had were due to your grace; now I think they          were due to my grace, meaning that I had them independently          of you. I did of course learn much from you; the problem is          that I had to invest so much - way too much - to learn what          I did.

         So my predominant feeling now is one of grief and anger. I          grieve for the last 30 years: for the careers given up to be          ready to go anywhere anytime to do your bidding; for the          relationships given up to be in the ashram or 'available for          service'; for the money given up in order to be free of ego          (I gave you a house, inheritances, wages and enough spare          cash over 30 years that would have left me financially          comfortable for the rest of my life had I not given it all          to you.)

         I grieve for a book I wrote that was suppressed after          writing it, because the initial suggestion for writing it          came from your brother SatPal. I grieve for the lost          thoughts and dreams, my own thoughts, lost because they were          not allowed to exist in a premie, otherwise he was 'in his          mind'. I grieve for what might have been, had I not been          marching up a dead-end alley, all the time proclaiming to          myself and the world that I was marching along the golden          highway to liberation. I grieve for all the people that I          tried so earnestly to convince that this dead-end alley was          the glorious road that they should be marching on too.

         I am not sure how you see yourself these days. Do you see          yourself still as the Perfect Master, needing of course to          tone it down for public consumption, but still the living          embodiment of that grace, without which no one can really          benefit from the Knowledge techniques ? Or do you privately          think of that as a Hindu myth, and you are content to live          off it - and live very well off it, like a family business,          as your detractors maintain ? Or was it a gradual change          over the years from one to the other ?

         To be honest, I don't really care - my grief is felt and          expressed, and now I intend to move on. As the English          expression says, there is no point in crying over spilt          milk. Although I left you 18 months ago (I first publicly          posted on the ex-premie Forum in January 2001) it has taken          me these 18 months to fully extricate myself from your          influence.

         So I thank you for the good times; for all the rest, and the          grief I have expressed in this letter, I drop them from my          shoulders - thus ! The dream I had before I met you, I still          have; and I am going for it, unencumbered and feeling very          much lighter.

         -- Mike


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## Astroboy (Jul 25, 2008)

Instead of doing a blog, I will bring ex-initiates blogs here so that the eye-opener experience is felt in SPN forum.


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## spnadmin (Jul 25, 2008)

Sounds like a good plan, NamJap ji.

You see how pathetic this is. The other mythology that is promoted and really needs to be exploded is the idea of how wrong it is to be "in the mind." This is brow-beating to get people who are hungry and thirsty for spiritual change to become passive and unquestioning dupes of another human being. 

Guru Teg Bahadur did not ask for 500 dinars, he asked Lobana to be true to his pledge. Money is the symbol of something much greater in the sakhi. And thanks for reminding me of the sakhi by the way. It has more gold nuggets than Lobana could buy for 500 dinars. 

How do these satgurs decide on their fee schedule?


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jul 25, 2008)

i don't charge


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## Astroboy (Jul 26, 2008)

Page 1400, Line 17
ਫੁਨਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਜਲ ਬਿਮਲ ਅਥਾਹ ਮਜਨੁ ਕਰਹੁ ਸੰਤ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਤਰਹੁ ਨਾਮ ਸਚ ਰੰਗ ਸਰਿ ॥
फुनि गुरू जल बिमल अथाह मजनु करहु संत गुरसिख तरहु नाम सच रंग सरि ॥
Fun gurū jal bimal athāh majan karahu sanṯ gursikẖ ṯarahu nām sacẖ rang sar.
Then, cleanse yourself in the Immaculate and Unfathomable Water of the Guru; O Gursikhs and Saints, cross over the *Ocean of Love* of the True Name.
*Bard Nala-y*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## Astroboy (Jul 26, 2008)

Other types of Oceans

Ocean of Pearls

.....................................................................................................................................
*Ocean of Milk*
A bas-relief at the temple of Angkor Wat in Cambodia includes a depiction of devas and asuras working together to stir up the *Ocean of Milk* in an attempt to free the precious objects lost within, including the elixir of immortality called amrita. The scheme, masterminded by Vishnu, was to wrap the serpent Vasuki around Mount Mandara, and then to rotate the mountain and to churn the surrounding sea in the manner of a gigantic food processor, by alternately pulling on the serpent's head and then on his tail. [2]

....................................................................................................................................

*         Ocean of Nectar    *

*           The True Nature of all Things*

*UNDERSTANDING MERE IMPUTATION BY MEANS OF ANALOGIES 
*


Chandrakirti, in his commentary to Aryadeva's _Four Hundred_, and Je Tsongkhapa, in _Clear Illumination of the Intention_, use the analogy of an imagined snake to show how all phenomena are merely imputed by thought. A man walking through a field at dusk comes across a coil of speckled rope in the grass and, mistaking it for a snake, develops fear. Even though a snake appears vividly to his mind, that snake does not exist from its own side. It is merely a projection of his mind, imputed by conceptual thought in dependence upon the rope. Other than this, no snake can be found because neither the coil of rope as a whole nor any part of it is a snake. 

In just the same way, all phenomena are merely imputed by conceptual thought. For example, the I does not exist from its own side. It is merely a projection of the mind imputed by conceptual thought in dependence upon the aggregates. If we try to find an I other than the mere conceptual imputation `I' we shall not succeed because neither the collection of the aggregates nor any individual aggregate is the I. Existing phenomena such as the I differ from the imagined snake in that they are valid imputations; but there is no difference from the point of view of their being merely imputed by conceptual thought. 

In the analogy, because the man sees the rope in the twilight he mistakenly apprehends a snake and develops fear. To remove this fear he must remove the mind apprehending a snake by realizing that there is no snake. Even then, if the rope is left in the same place there is a danger that the same mistake will be made in the future. The only way to remove this danger is to remove the rope. Similarly, sentient beings observing their aggregates in the darkness of their ignorance mistakenly apprehend an inherently existent I. This mind grasping at an inherently existent I is the root of samsara and the source of all fear. To remove the fears of samsara we must remove this mind by realizing that there is no inherently existent I. Even then, there will be a danger of the mind grasping at an inherently existent I recurring if we continue to grasp at inherently existent aggregates. Therefore, the only way to remove the fears of samsara entirely is first to realize the lack of inherent existence of the I, and then to realize the lack of inherent existence of the aggregates. 

Again, we can use other analogies such as seeing a spider on a wall where there is only a mark, seeing a person in the distance where there is only a pile of stones, or generating fear during a film. By contemplating these analogies we can understand how all phenomena are merely imputed by thought.


Ocean of Nectar


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## Astroboy (Jul 26, 2008)

*            The Buddhist Way of Loving Kindness*


*Excerpt from this book: *

_From the chapter 'Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory'  _
We may think that if we patiently practise accepting defeat all the time, our suffering and problems will multiply and completely overwhelm us; but in fact the practice of patience always lessens our suffering because we do not add mental pain to the difficulties we are having. Because suffering, worry, depression, and pain are feelings, they are types of mind, so it follows that they exist inside and not outside our mind. If while experiencing adverse conditions our mind remains calm and happy through the practice of patience, we do not have a problem. We may have a challenging situation, and may even be sick or injured, but we are free from pain. By controlling our mind in this way we experience a cessation of our pain, worry, and depression, and find true inner peace. Furthermore, by keeping a peaceful mind in difficult situations we are far more likely to find solutions and respond constructively. Buddhist practice is very gentle. It does not require physical deprivation and hardship but is mainly concerned with the internal task of controlling and transforming the mind. Once we have learned how to do this we shall understand the real meaning of Buddha’s teachings.
In Tibet I met a number of humble practitioners who, although they were not famous, always practised accepting defeat and offering the victory in their daily lives. One of these was a monk called Kachen Sangye, whom people came to recognize as a Bodhisattva. Whenever anyone said anything unpleasant to him he would accept it without retaliating, and whenever anyone asked him for something he would give it immediately without even a hint of miserliness. If he was overcharged while shopping he would pay without comment, and if the shopkeeper was poor he would give him even more. Kachen Sangye’s most expensive possession was a copper pot for holding water. One day while he was out a thief entered his room and stole the pot, but as the thief was making his way down the street he met Kachen Sangye returning to his room. Since the monk knew him, the thief was so ashamed that he dropped the pot and ran off. Kachen Sangye, however, developed the strong desire to give away his copper pot, so he took it to the thief’s house and said to him: ‘You didn’t need to run away. You can take anything you want from my room at anytime!’ People used to say that even if he had been asked to give up his life he would have done so happily. There are many examples in the past of such practitioners, and there is no reason why there should not be practitioners like this now and in the future. Those who are able to think and behave like this do not meet with any problems in life, for they can happily accept whatever situations they find themselves in.

http://www.tharpa.com/us/book-Transform.Your.Life-574.html


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## Astroboy (Jul 26, 2008)

*       	A Blissful Journey*

 mind and our life, fulfil our human potential, and find everlasting peace and happiness. 

What is the real meaning of human life?
How to find the source of happiness
The actual methods to solve our daily problems
How to accomplish our ultimate goal

'A work of deep spiritual insight.' — THE NAPRA REVIEW
 'A laudable and thought-provoking read.' — MIDWEST BOOK REVIEW


*Excerpt from this book: *

_The Benefits of Cherishing Others  _
Another reason for cherishing others is that it is the best method to solve our own and others’ problems. Problems, worry, pain, and unhappiness are types of mind—they are feelings and do not exist outside the mind. If we cherish everyone we meet or think about, there will be no basis for developing jealousy, anger, or other harmful thoughts, and our mind will be at peace all the time. Jealousy, for example, is a state of mind that cannot bear another’s good fortune; but if we cherish someone how can his or her good fortune disturb our mind? How can we wish to harm others if we regard everyone’s happiness to be of paramount importance? By genuinely cherishing all living beings, we will always act with loving kindness, in a friendly and considerate way, and they will return our kindness. Others will not act unpleasantly toward us, and there will be no basis for conflict or disputes. People will come to like us, and our relationships will be more stable and satisfying. 
Cherishing others also protects us from the problems caused by desirous attachment. We often become strongly attached to another person who we feel will help us overcome our loneliness by providing the comfort, security, or excitement we crave. If we have a loving mind toward everyone, however, we do not feel lonely. Instead of clinging onto others to fulfill our desires, we will want to help them fulfill their needs and wishes. Cherishing all living beings solves all our problems because all our problems come from our mind of self-cherishing. For example, at the moment if our partner left us for someone else we would probably feel very upset, but if we truly cherished him we would want him to be happy, and we would rejoice in his happiness. There would be no basis for us to feel jealous or depressed, so although we might find the situation challenging, it would not be a problem for us. Cherishing others is the supreme protection from suffering and problems, and enables us to remain calm and peaceful all the time.


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## Parma (Jul 30, 2008)

*<<<<< POST DELETED >>>>>

*Personal Attacks or Sect Bashing: Do not engage in personal attacks or sect bashing.
 HATE MESSAGES WILL BE REMOVED WITHOUT NOTICE.

SPN Moderator


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## Parma (Jul 31, 2008)

Pk 70. I would like to discuss on how to develop myself with you, as you mentioned you have or you know of some form of further knowledge on this and I want to further elevate myself as you put it. Waiting for a civil discussion??? I am a sikh and as such I am willing to learn. Please teach me...
THANKS!!!
:happy::yes:


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## Parma (Aug 1, 2008)

I have not made any personal attacks or sect bashing. I think which ever moderator decided to delete my post could they at least do me the kindness of telling me were I was wrong. In my message all i did was request further dialouge on the discussion I was making. Maybe to say even kids can argue seems like bashing to you. Only I was told in a previous message by a fellow member that my comments where laughable. This seemed personal to me. I just questioned the comment they made. As there expressions or dialouge was in a arguable format rather than a discussion. Just forwarded a thought to remind that particular member not to argue but to discuss... Sorry if my comments have caused any one offence. I am nothing but a humble man, and I am trying to posses the qualities to improve on all levels. To become the best i can be. If someone else is telling me they know the qualities i need to posses then I would like to know what they know and how they came to the conclusions they have as I find nothing shameful in learning I am a SIKH.


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## Astroboy (Aug 1, 2008)

*



			If you want to carry on then please follow this form of code not personal attacks, if all you can do is attack a person then there is not much you have developed into as kids can do that. Your response so far has been ok. Only Please remain civil in responses. Thanks
		
Click to expand...




*Parma Ji, your post has been discussed by Leaders and found to contravene the above mentioned Forum Rules.. If any person in his statements have hurt you, the right thing to do is bring it to the attention of any Leaders who will know how to take appropriate action according to Forum Rules. To engage one's self in such negative statements  is like fanning the fire for new arguments. 
No offence against you. 

*



			Should I call you a guru? Or are you a Sikh still learning until the moment you die. Seems depressing why are you depressed by my statement? I am not afraid of death maybe you feel you need to explore life more, carry on until you find your peace of mind.
		
Click to expand...


**Introspection: * Try to find your own fault and purify your mind.
*Unity in Diversity: * Many members on SPN, come from various religious and cultural backgrounds and may have variable conflicting opinions. Religion and Philosophy are general but unique for each person's understanding and progress. If you disagree, simply accept the difference and ask for information you may not know. Un-necessary bragging, trash talk, childish arguements only take us away from the topic in hand. Please avoid them at any cost.


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## Parma (Aug 1, 2008)

I only asked someone to clarify there comments. No problem if you make a statement then you should back it up. Whats is the point in Worthless talking whats the point. If to ask someone to clarify there comments is against forum rules then this forum is not worth my time. Religion you have now understood what it means a group of people you either fit in with or you dont. Nothing else. I ve been told to purify my mind tell me how. Who can teach that? Who can learn that? Who has that? Who is that? Only god can teach me. I learn everyday from waheguru. I just hope ones own comments can be relayed as pure. I have faults. I have many faults. Only god is perfect to me. Nothing else. We can learn to be pure nothing else. So I will say again as I do have faults if someone is offended by any of my comments then I am sorry. I wont bother anymore with posting. Waste of Thought. Explaination ends were one is not willing to understand. Hope you all find peace of mind in your journeys of life. Even if it is momentary for me or a life long process I have seen peace. I wish you all well most of all try and enjoy life it is a hard process. I thank you for allowing me to air my thoughts at times in the past. Subb sukhi Raho! Jis jevan uss waherguru = (god, allah, ram, nature) ko parveh. Sutha sukhi raho! No need to reply as i will no longer post. Enjoy life, its a game dont hate the player ha ha ha!


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## pk70 (Aug 1, 2008)

Parma said:


> I only asked someone to clarify there comments. No problem if you make a statement then you should back it up. Whats is the point in Worthless talking whats the point. If to ask someone to clarify there comments is against forum rules then this forum is not worth my time. Religion you have now understood what it means a group of people you either fit in with or you dont. Nothing else. I ve been told to purify my mind tell me how. Who can teach that? Who can learn that? Who has that? Who is that? Only god can teach me. I learn everyday from waheguru. I just hope ones own comments can be relayed as pure. I have faults. I have many faults. Only god is perfect to me. Nothing else. We can learn to be pure nothing else. So I will say again as I do have faults if someone is offended by any of my comments then I am sorry. I wont bother anymore with posting. Waste of Thought. Explaination ends were one is not willing to understand. Hope you all find peace of mind in your journeys of life. Even if it has been momentary or a life long process I have seen peace. I wish you all well most of all try and enjoy life it is a hard process. I thank you for allowing me to air my thoughts at times in the past. Subb sukhi Raho! Jis jevan uss waherguru = (god, allah, ram, nature) ko parveh. Sutha sukhi raho! No need to reply as i will no longer post. Enjoy life, its a game dont hate the player ha ha ha!



*Parma jio
As you asked me through a private message I replied and expressed my inability to give comments in detail, and requested you too wait for a couple days but it sounds, you cannot wait. Be cool as you have found peace, that is the assets I want you to hold on to; comments given taken really should not hit that peace. Well, as you really got frustrated because of not getting reply, here are my comments in short as per my limitations .* *MOD is doing its job, no need to be disappointed with them, I declared openly to them that where ever they smell something hurtful from my comments, just delete it because I believe by filtering a good substance can be kept clean.*
*Coming back to your all original comments and my response, here are they
*    (quote parma ji)
  I guess you are never fully developed into being who you are until the moment you die.
*Very depressing statement, often quoted by those scholars who have little or no knowledge of spiritual experience. Certainly the ones with elevated spiritual experience will laugh at it. Learning is it self nothing if there is no progression and goal is not obtained. In a race all participants run but all do not win, does it mean, all others should give up thinking" we all are not going to win, lets give up hopes" No offense, this is the way I feel after reading your nice statements.*
*TO PK70, Why would anyone laugh at my statement. My question to you is, So when are you fully developed then? Are you fully developed? Should I call you a guru?*
*Take a deep breath **Parma** ji, I haven’t laughed at your statement. I mentioned elevated experience, why did you skip that, I wonder.*
*Elevated souls experience spiritual state of mind and in their dictionary there is no place for such statement.  How would I know? Read Guru Nanak, Kabir Ji, **Nam** Dev and others who not only found Him within but showed to others as well.*
*When one determines to do progression as they teach, question of ‘fully developed” doesn’t exist due to spiritual path one treads on, only thing remains on mind is to battle the primal forces with Guru Teachings. For psychologists teaching civility, it is of course a fascinating term. What the definition is of fully developed as per your view any way? For whom does one develop fully? Is it for a civil society or for one self? What are measures you have set up for fully developed? To me it sounded a lame term filled with a lot of imagination. Then saying dieing without fully developed, also doesn’t say any thing positive. If one doesn’t develop fully as per your measure then what is the need of it any way.  *
* Did I ever boast about myself, if you have noted down it, kindly share with me because that is not my progression (your fully developed), that boasting will show quite good display of my limitations?*
* Or are you a Sikh still learning until the moment you die.*
*I do not assume as you do here. A Sikh doesn’t need to die while learning; it depends if learning ever takes place, every time if a fall comes and the Sikh keeps saying I am learning that is still progression. However, if the Sikh’s who keep saying this for the rest of their lives till die, obviously are not progressing because eventually the falls should cease if learning takes place. Without practical words remain just means of decorations*
* Seems depressing why are you depressed by my statement? *
*You have stated that we die without fully developed, doesn't it itself sound depressing?If one from the start says we die without fully developed, then where is the hope you give to others who want to develop fully before death, remember” jinni Naam dhiaaeea gae mushkit ghaal”( Japji) do you think it is a lie? Here I do not see any indication that contemplating on Naam will not help you because you will die without fully developed*

*I am not afraid of death maybe you feel you need to explore life more, carry on until you find your peace of mind.*
*Sir did I question you personally? Whatever and whoever you are, I respect you for being what you are because it is none of my business to judge others even if I know them. My comments were on hopelessness I smelled from your statement not at you at all. So try to stick to reason*
* I have explored my life and I have seen the light to be true and in that I have found peace. Where does your caravan take you?*
* Congratulations. Good for you, I am not that fortunate yet. In progression, there are no stops, so how can I name an imaginary stop?*
* If you are fully elevated then I will salute you. Good on you*
*I never claimed, if His Grace is bestowed upon ever, I would not claim then either*
*. Only if you are fully developed into what have you developed, please state, who are you or what are you?*
*Again, imagination builds walls before reality, without reality one is doomed to dip in illusions, I do not have those tastes. My limit was only to a statement that limits the hope of progression if one chooses to have.*
* This may seem all riddled at the moment but take your time to answer each of the statements and I will discuss my points deeper.*
*I have done as per my understanding.*
* P.s. A fully developed intellect will not argue thoughts but discuss ideas.*
*Thanks for enlightening me on this.*
* If you want to carry on then please follow this form of code not personal attacks, if all you can do is attack a person then there is not much you have developed into as kids can do that.*
*Well Sir, I haven’t claimed any thing any way. If my comments on your statement disturb you that much, I am sorry. May be I haven’t developed as you did, I am still O.K if you level me to kids level, we learn from them too, it is matter of time only. I wonder you are doing what you are advising me not to do. Hope you will realize that as per your claims.*
* Your response so far has been ok. *
*Thanks for your so kind words.*
*Only Please remain civil in responses. Thanks*
*Should I answer it or not, I wonder because you are so kind to teach me every thing*
  I am nothing but a humble man, and I am trying to posses the qualities to improve on all levels.
*Saying I am humble doesn’t make any one humble, yes showing it through behavior it does for sure; tragedy of us is that we don’t let our a little ego  hurt, we sacrifice all efforts we  put in to over come ego and start defending it, no one loses but we ourselves. You take care of yourself 
*
*NOTE I cannot respond till tomorrow, I hope you can bear with me in case you comment on my comments.*


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## KulwantK (Aug 3, 2008)

Something everyone should also bear in mind about Paul Twitchell and ECKanKar:
The American intelligence agency, the Central Intelligence Agency, consulted with him on how to use his teachings to engage in what is known in military and esoteric studies circles as "Remote Viewing" whereby someone can have an "out of body experience" and see or view, events, people and places in areas other than where they are at the time.  It should also be remembered that such things can have dangerous consequences for the practitioners.  Intelligence agencies in various countries have been exploring what could be called paranormal topics from at least the 1950's.


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## Parma (Aug 3, 2008)

There is nothing in the above statement but personal attacking. You have not even understood my questioning at all. In fact you have tried to give a question which you think is reasonable only you have not even shown reason. I questioned your understanding on the elevated terms and I did question on your terms as per what you think is fully developed. Also as your previous views have been deleted. YOU WANT TO MEET!! Plus who said death is the end of life as per spirtual terms. PLUS IF YOU WANT TO SEE THE TRUTH I WILL SHOW U MEET ME!! A FULL LESSON ON HOW TO DEVELOP YOURSELF> CALL IT FIND OUT HOW TO LET GO OF EGO CALL IT WHAT YOU WANT IM READY TO TEACH!!! BAD BOY!!!


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## spnadmin (Aug 3, 2008)

Parma ji

You are officially warned to manage your anger more effectively in this forum. Earlier forum leadership was persuaded that they had been too harsh with you. Your comments to pk70 warrant a sincere apology. 

This is a warning. The next time there will be an infraction. We can take it from there. No use in telling me that I have angered you. We can if you will make an attempt to open another chapter in this book. Sat Sri Akaal 


WARNED.


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## Astroboy (Aug 4, 2008)

Page 826, Line 4
ਕਿਰਪਾ ਨਿਧਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਦੀਨ ਦਇਆਲਾ ॥
किरपा निधि प्रभ दीन दइआला ॥
Kirpā niḏẖ parabẖ ḏīn ḏa*i*ālā.
God is *the ocean of mercy*, merciful to the meek;
*Guru Arjan Dev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


[/SIZE]Page 105, Line 11
ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰ ਮੇਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਪਾਲਾ ॥
सुख सागर मेरे गुर गोपाला ॥
Sukẖ sāgar mėrė gur gopālā.
*Ocean of Peace*, my Guru, Sustainer of the world.
*Guru Arjan Dev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


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## KulwantK (Aug 8, 2008)

Parma ji, it is most advisable that you learn to control your reactions to your evident temper.  There are anger-management classes available.  This forum is not the place to engage in hostile postings such as what you have done.  Consider yourself duly warned.


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## Astroboy (Oct 6, 2008)

ਏਕੈ  ਪਾਥਰ  ਕੀਜੈ  ਭਾਉ  ॥ 
एकै पाथर कीजै भाउ ॥ 
Ėkai pāthar kījai bẖā▫o. 
One stone is lovingly decorated, 

ਦੂਜੈ  ਪਾਥਰ  ਧਰੀਐ  ਪਾਉ  ॥ 
दूजै पाथर धरीऐ पाउ ॥ 
Ḏūjai pāthar ḏẖarī▫ai pā▫o. 
while another stone is walked upon. 

ਜੇ  ਓਹੁ  ਦੇਉ  ਤ  ਓਹੁ  ਭੀ  ਦੇਵਾ  ॥ 
जे ओहु देउ त ओहु भी देवा ॥ 
Je oh ḏe▫o ṯa oh bẖī ḏevā. 
If one is a god, then the other must also be a god. 

ਕਹਿ  ਨਾਮਦੇਉ  ਹਮ  ਹਰਿ  ਕੀ  ਸੇਵਾ  ॥੪॥੧॥ 
कहि नामदेउ हम हरि की सेवा ॥४॥१॥ 
Kahi nāmḏe▫o ham har kī sevā. ||4||1|| 
Says Naam Dayv, I serve the Lord. ||4||1||


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