# I Feel That A Lot Of Sikh's Are Spiritually Dead



## Theologian (Jan 7, 2017)

Hello brothers and sisters,
I am posting to express my view & to see other Sikhs view on this. Now a days most Sikhs are concerned with how one looks, both religious Sikhs and the usual busy day to day Sikh. I have not come across a proper Sikh for so long now. My definition of a proper Sikh is, one that lives by how the SGGS expresses. If the case is agreed that a lot of Sikhs are spiritually dead, then the social thinking of Sikhs has no strong foundation and this is the result of the current state of affairs. I have my views on where and why, but it has no credence if many do not share this view. Please let us know how you honestly feel.


----------



## Sikhilove (Jan 7, 2017)

Theologian said:


> Hello brothers and sisters,
> I am posting to express my view & to see other Sikhs view on this. Now a days most Sikhs are concerned with how one looks, both religious Sikhs and the usual busy day to day Sikh. I have not come across a proper Sikh for so long now. My definition of a proper Sikh is, one that lives by how the SGGS expresses. If the case is agreed that a lot of Sikhs are spiritually dead, then the social thinking of Sikhs has no strong foundation and this is the result of the current state of affairs. I have my views on where and why, but it has no credence if many do not share this view. Please let us know how you honestly feel.



Yep spirituality is almost dead. Sad but true. Society Is a bullshit gimmick. Everyones busy living their own lives.


----------



## Pathfinder (Jan 7, 2017)

Theologian said:


> I have not come across a proper Sikh for so long now.



Please do hang around the forum awhile and you will meet some wonderful inspirational Sikhs here as i have.



Theologian said:


> My definition of a proper Sikh is, one that lives by how the SGGS expresses.



true, but there is no improper or proper Sikh though. A Sikh is simply a Sikh like you stated - one who lives by the Hukam of Waheguru Ji.



Theologian said:


> If the case is agreed that a lot of Sikhs are spiritually dead, then the social thinking of Sikhs has no strong foundation and this is the result of the current state of affairs.



i would have to disagree here as Sikhi is a very intimate emotion that most not are comfortable demonstrating - and thus rightly so, as it is a very personal connection. Besides on what grounds or by what rights can one judge another? how can i judge you? how can i assume if you are spiritually alive or if i am am spiritually undead in the first place?.

Sikhi has never had any respect for numbers ever. Each and every time Sikhs have been outnumbered they have managed to overcome the odds. The strong foundation runs deep and is not affected by a few less or more of us because the pillars or the foundations that the Nanak's laid run deep, very deep.

There are so many inspirational Sikhs i meet everyday that i curse myself at times for having been so blind before. we have two converts working as sewadars in our Gurudwara and both have turned Amritdharis. Both south indian and no way previously connected to Sikhism, Punjab or the Nanak's - both inspire the local sangat tremendously. The faith they possess is enviable.

i once asked the bhaiji at our Gurudwara as to how does he find the insiprational on a daily basis to live in the Rehat and he told me that he was told at the Gurmukh school that his life would be meaningful if he could Inspire (not convert) at least Five sikhs to partake the Amrit and live in the Rehat.

There is this Bibiji who is overweight, old and has severe joint pains but is there in the Gurudwara even before twilight each day. a storm that was huge devastated our city but could not stop this bibji from her sewa. (Google - Hudhud storm) . In the midst of the rubble, chaos - she was still there with the Shabad on her lips.

There is this dhabha owner who without any naga (without being absent) for the last three years at least hums a shabad as he frets over amusingly over the decoration of the most beautiful flowers in the Gurudwara each morning. Lol, and we are still at the Gurudwara - is someone keeping count of the Sikhs / inspirational Sikhs we met so far already.

i could go on and on, point is - would it make you a better Sikh if there were more inspirational Sikhs?. No, in a way - it does not matter - if i cannot see inspirational Sikhs it only means i do not wish to get inspired. on second thoughts is the list of inspiration from the Ten Nanak's, Shabazyade, Shaeeds, Bhaghats, endless  others not enough?. Just one Guru Gobind Singh Ji seems overwhelming in inspiration to be brutally honest.

The current state of affairs to me is a sad reflection of my shortcomings- of myself , not you or the others. yes - i am alone responsible for it. Because if i can allow myself to get shamelessly inspired i must use the inspiration to live in the rehat without faltering. Where there is the Khalsa (even one - does not matter) there is nothing but chardi kala.

There were a lot of pretenders and fake followers during the Ten Nanak's reign too - it was never an ideal world and sadly it is the same now. But do we we waste time on the pretenders or fakes of the old - no. So what makes the Un-inspiring clan so important now?.

Just ignore them like we ought to and instead judge and correct ourselves. May we Live in the Rehat and inspire at least five others like the Bhaiji believes he should do. Let us remind ourselves that there was Bhai Kanhaiya ji who saw Nanak in the enemy too - how can we then not see the Akaal in a Sikh?.

on a lighter note:
- count the number of black Suv's that you come across today
- do this for a week and note the number each day - believe me it will increase each day
(the number of Suv's probably remain the same but you get better at spotting - the reason for the increase)
- next week replace the Suv's with Good people, kind souls, inspirational souls
(believe me the number will increase each day too)

so, let us inspire and get inspired. If the world is bad its because we make it so, lets clean up the mess - its time we do. if i were good, you would see my goodness and be good too. if we were both good - how could the state of affairs be bad?. i will therefore strive to be good and that is not tough too. I just need to be a Sikh, feel like a Sikh, live like a Sikh....

Sorry for the long post Theologian Ji.. just some random reflection on your post.


----------



## RD1 (Jan 7, 2017)

Theologian said:


> Hello brothers and sisters,
> I am posting to express my view & to see other Sikhs view on this. Now a days most Sikhs are concerned with how one looks, both religious Sikhs and the usual busy day to day Sikh. I have not come across a proper Sikh for so long now. My definition of a proper Sikh is, one that lives by how the SGGS expresses. If the case is agreed that a lot of Sikhs are spiritually dead, then the social thinking of Sikhs has no strong foundation and this is the result of the current state of affairs. I have my views on where and why, but it has no credence if many do not share this view. Please let us know how you honestly feel.



I frequently can feel the same way you do. However, I don't feel it is solely a Sikh issue necessarily, but a human issue many of us face today. Generally, it does feel that there is a lack of spirituality, and instead, superficiality and materialism are worshiped, and encouraged. Feeding the ego is encouraged. Most people seem to live a very surface level existence, either unable, unwilling, or too afraid to embark deeper within themselves. 

That being said, as @Pathfinder has eloquently put forth, there are inspirational Sikhs all around us, and regardless of what we may think others are doing, its up to us to be a Sikh and live as a Sikh.

We are all here on our own journeys. Regardless of how desolate or heart-breaking or hopeless it can appear out there, the best that we can do is ignite that spirituality within ourselves.


----------



## Dalvinder Singh Grewal (Jan 7, 2017)

Theologian said:


> Hello brothers and sisters,
> I am posting to express my view & to see other Sikhs view on this. Now a days most Sikhs are concerned with how one looks, both religious Sikhs and the usual busy day to day Sikh. I have not come across a proper Sikh for so long now. My definition of a proper Sikh is, one that lives by how the SGGS expresses. If the case is agreed that a lot of Sikhs are spiritually dead, then the social thinking of Sikhs has no strong foundation and this is the result of the current state of affairs. I have my views on where and why, but it has no credence if many do not share this view. Please let us know how you honestly feel.


It is not essential that everyone should be spiritually conscious. In the old times those who were spiritually inclined could be counted on fingers. Now the number is much more as we watch. Further it is generally seen that the spiritually inclined people do not wish to be seen in public hence generally cannot be accounted for. God however remains centre of faith and common attraction of 90% of the world population.


----------



## sukhsingh (Jan 7, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> Yep spirituality is almost dead. Sad but true. Society Is a bullshit gimmick. Everyones busy living their own lives.


What measures do you use to assert spirituality has declined?


----------



## sukhsingh (Jan 8, 2017)

Theologian said:


> Hello brothers and sisters,
> I am posting to express my view & to see other Sikhs view on this. Now a days most Sikhs are concerned with how one looks, both religious Sikhs and the usual busy day to day Sikh. I have not come across a proper Sikh for so long now. My definition of a proper Sikh is, one that lives by how the SGGS expresses. If the case is agreed that a lot of Sikhs are spiritually dead, then the social thinking of Sikhs has no strong foundation and this is the result of the current state of affairs. I have my views on where and why, but it has no credence if many do not share this view. Please let us know how you honestly feel.


How can 'lots of  Sikhs be spiritually dead' ? Sounds like a oxy{censored} to me


----------



## Theologian (Jan 8, 2017)

Pathfinder said:


> Please do hang around the forum awhile and you will meet some wonderful inspirational Sikhs here as i have.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Hello,

I think you do not understand when judgement is not to be executed upon. Judgement is not to be executed upon an individual according to sins or misdeeds, which is why it is left to God, as only God can know the inner thinking's of his creation, and the reason why a deed was so. A wise discernment is needed to situations in life, like which party group is better suited to run my country as government? Is the Republican/Labour party better than the independent party? Wise Judgement is encouraged in making the right choices in life, but to bring one down on their actions serves no benefit apart from one exception, where it is ok.

If the foundations of Sikhism are very strong, then why on other posts to this day are people so confused on if reincarnation is still a lie or if heaven/hell is the right answer. This is just one example I am giving without needing to bring more up.

From my research the very foundations of Sikhism was removed in the 1920's - 1950's from the most powerful group of Sikhs for a large sum of money, even to the point of adjusting literature. This is a whole another topic, so please do not push this forward, if you wish start a thread and I will reply, 'when I get the time'.

If you feel in the Sangat you come across inspirational Sikhs, I can not comment, all I can say is the most genuine real Sikhs that are interested and are the future are Caucasian Sikhs, who have gave up nearly everything to follow this path, actually I would say more than everything. Unfortunately there are so many false teachers out there and due to external influences these false teachers are promoted highly like Guruka Singh I think who represents SikhNet pushes highly false material, if anything he is more successful than the several smaller ones that are trying to do good for the faith. Then you have others like Basics of Sikhi, who are genuinely trying to do good and are possibly the future, but they need the knowledge and discernment to be able to teach. If someone does not have the teaching skills, how can they teach?

I was not pushing the inspirational Sikh agenda when I posted, I was trying to reflect the current state, being inspirational is one thing, and being a dedicated Sikh is another. A dedicated Sikh is very rare to find, one who lives by the text. Many I know and have asked, most say we don't even know 1. Even a beginner can be inspirational, but once they live the life without partaking in pleasure pleasing things and sinful funs, will they fall? Most do, but most fall at the first step.

Unfortunately everything has a reason, even for the dire state of Sikhi today. You can fix a tyre so many times with plasters till eventually it is covered, then eventually it gives way.


----------



## Theologian (Jan 8, 2017)

RD1 said:


> I frequently can feel the same way you do. However, I don't feel it is solely a Sikh issue necessarily, but a human issue many of us face today. Generally, it does feel that there is a lack of spirituality, and instead, superficiality and materialism are worshiped, and encouraged. Feeding the ego is encouraged. Most people seem to live a very surface level existence, either unable, unwilling, or too afraid to embark deeper within themselves.
> 
> That being said, as @Pathfinder has eloquently put forth, there are inspirational Sikhs all around us, and regardless of what we may think others are doing, its up to us to be a Sikh and live as a Sikh.
> 
> We are all here on our own journeys. Regardless of how desolate or heart-breaking or hopeless it can appear out there, the best that we can do is ignite that spirituality within ourselves.


 
Yes I agree this is common with most religions in regards to being faithless and living sinful. But the difference is the faithful ones are so disciplined in their faith. Like a Muslim will pray 5 times a day, will always go to the Mosque on Friday lunchtimes even if at work, and like Jews will not use electrical items for half the day and some not even use cars as well, and Christians try to live loving everyone, even their enemies & have very similar basic teachings that are same to Sikhism, probably is the most closest religion to Sikhism out of all of them, then unfortunately due to the societal influences of pre-India, the religion of serpents.


----------



## Theologian (Jan 8, 2017)

dalvindersingh grewal said:


> It is not essential that everyone should be spiritually conscious. In the old times those who were spiritually inclined could be counted on fingers. Now the number is much more as we watch. Further it is generally seen that the spiritually inclined people do not wish to be seen in public hence generally cannot be accounted for. God however remains centre of faith and common attraction of 90% of the world population.


 My opinion is 100% opposite


----------



## Theologian (Jan 8, 2017)

sukhsingh said:


> How can 'lots of  Sikhs be spiritually dead' ? Sounds like a oxy{censored} to me


 Brother please make your case rather than childish calling me names. You are a prime example of this topic.


----------



## sukhsingh (Jan 8, 2017)

Theologian said:


> Brother please make your case rather than childish calling me names. You are a prime example of this topic.


Lol..

 Name calling?.. 

I was saying 'a lot of Sikhs are spirituality dead' sounds like a a oxy{censored}! Look it up and check yourself brother!


----------



## RD1 (Jan 8, 2017)

Theologian said:


> A dedicated Sikh is very rare to find, one who lives by the text



Specifically, how would you define a dedicated Sikh?


----------



## RD1 (Jan 8, 2017)

Theologian said:


> Yes I agree this is common with most religions in regards to being faithless and living sinful. But the difference is the faithful ones are so disciplined in their faith. Like a Muslim will pray 5 times a day, will always go to the Mosque on Friday lunchtimes even if at work,



So all a Muslim has to do is pray 5 times a day to be considered faithful and spiritual? What if the Muslim rarely prayed 5 times a day, but still had tremendous love for God and humanity, and devoted his life to doing charity work? 



Theologian said:


> then unfortunately due to the societal influences of pre-India, the religion of serpents.



I didn't understand this last part, can you please elaborate?


----------



## Dalvinder Singh Grewal (Jan 8, 2017)

Theologian said:


> My opinion is 100% opposite


It is possible that you are talking of religion and not of spirituality. It must be understood that spirituality is not the same as religion.


----------



## Sikhilove (Jan 9, 2017)

> What measures do you use to assert spirituality has declined?



We humans waste time playing the game of life instead of finding balance to always speak from a balanced mind.

We love each other and hate each other, we attach ourselves to fragments of the khel. But thats all just bullsh*t frequency that none of us can see past.

Theres only One.

Mayas always going to suck you in and spit you out, it's a never ending cycle.


----------



## sukhsingh (Jan 10, 2017)

Theologian said:


> Sikhism, probably is the most closest religion to Sikhism out of all of them, then unfortunately due to the societal influences of pre-India, the religion of serpents.


Can you please expand upon this.. What do you mean "religion of serpents"


----------



## Brother Onam (Jan 10, 2017)

sukhsingh said:


> How can 'lots of  Sikhs be spiritually dead' ? Sounds like a oxy{censored} to me


Yeah, might be more accurate to say 'lots of spiritually dead Punjabis'. As you said, if the spirit is not vibrant, you are not among the Sikhs.


----------



## sukhsingh (Jan 10, 2017)

Theologian said:


> Brother please make your case rather than childish calling me names. You are a prime example of this topic.


It is to this message @Theologian I was expecting a response I think you're comments were not only misguided but by judging so quickly me you demonstrated a level of hypocrisy?


----------



## Theologian (Jan 10, 2017)

RD1 said:


> Specifically, how would you define a dedicated Sikh?


 At the bare minimum I would expect a dedicated Sikh, who lives by the text, as a 'rough' answer; to treat everyone equally rather than when meeting someone for the first time, to ask their caste or refer to another by saying 'That Thurkan went to...'; and also not to focus on outwardly appearances or behaviour, and the main thing I would be interested in seeing is a dedicated Sikh speaking and exchanging view points on the text - Which rarely happens. I mean is a religion not taught primarily by their text? Should this not be the primary focus rather than the current opposite.


----------



## Theologian (Jan 10, 2017)

RD1 said:


> So all a Muslim has to do is pray 5 times a day to be considered faithful and spiritual? What if the Muslim rarely prayed 5 times a day, but still had tremendous love for God and humanity, and devoted his life to doing charity work?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't understand this last part, can you please elaborate?


No a Muslim does not just have to do that, but just as a small example.

Our actions and obeying Gods commands as best as possible reflects how much effort we put in and hence how much love we have for God. I agree that someone's love for God is the root for all these other things to fall in place.


----------



## Theologian (Jan 10, 2017)

dalvindersingh grewal said:


> It is possible that you are talking of religion and not of spirituality. It must be understood that spirituality is not the same as religion.


 Agreed religion and spirituality totally differ, big difference in todays times.


----------



## Theologian (Jan 10, 2017)

Brother Onam said:


> Yeah, might be more accurate to say 'lots of spiritually dead Punjabis'. As you said, if the spirit is not vibrant, you are not among the Sikhs.


 Well put Sir.


----------



## lionprinceuk (Jan 11, 2017)

When you try to turn dharma into religion, things like this happen to spirituality.


----------



## Theologian (Jan 15, 2017)

lionprinceuk said:


> When you try to turn dharma into religion, things like this happen to spirituality.


 Please further explanation needed. Are you saying that Sanskrit to Granth?


----------



## sukhsingh (Jan 15, 2017)

Theologian said:


> Please further explanation needed. Are you saying that Sanskrit to Granth?


Sanskrit is a language? Granth is a body of work..?


----------



## Sikhilove (Jan 16, 2017)

Sikhi isn't a religion, Truth can't belong to a religion, hence there is no Hindu or Muslim.


----------



## RD1 (Jan 16, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> Sikhi isn't a religion, Truth can't belong to a religion, hence there is no Hindu or Muslim.



So then what is Sikhi? And where is the Truth?


----------



## sukhsingh (Jan 16, 2017)

RD1 said:


> So then what is Sikhi? And where is the Truth?


To quote hamlet *To be,or not* to be;that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or,to take arms against a sea of troubles, And,by opposing,end them.To die,to sleep-


----------



## Sikhilove (Jan 17, 2017)

RD1 said:


> So then what is Sikhi? And where is the Truth?



Its everything u see and all that you dont. Its literally staring u in the face but your ego doesn't let u see past the bullsh*t.


----------



## sukhsingh (Jan 17, 2017)

The search for truth?


----------



## Pathfinder (Jan 17, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> Sikhi isn't a religion



True, 
Sikhism is a religion.
Sikhi is a state of mind.
A Sikh is one who - with the guidance of Sikhism tries to achieve Sikhi by drawing strength and inspiration from the Nanak's.



Sikhilove said:


> Truth can't belong to a religion,



True,
It is the religion that has to always belong to the truth though - as  it does, always has and always will.


----------



## Sikhilove (Jan 21, 2017)

Pathfinder said:


> True,
> Sikhism is a religion.
> Sikhi is a state of mind.
> A Sikh is one who - with the guidance of Sikhism tries to achieve Sikhi by drawing strength and inspiration from the Nanak's.
> ...



There Is No religion. 

There is only the Truth, anything other than Truth is an illusion. 

People walk around calling a horse a goat. This is the state of the world.


----------



## Sikhilove (Jan 21, 2017)

sukhsingh said:


> The search for truth?



You don't need to look for it, it's everything you see and everything you don't, all is Him. Recognise it and live in service of it, live in Truth Remembrance of Nirboah and Nirvair- that's real meditation.


----------



## lionprinceuk (Jan 26, 2017)

Theologian said:


> Please further explanation needed. Are you saying that Sanskrit to Granth?



To give a frank answer in this instant - it is colonialism that introduced the definition of sikhism to colonial indians, in contrast to sikhi and sikh panth. Also introduced was the concept of following religion and God, both western and abrahamic concepts. This was all part of the divide and conquer strategies employed. 

I have observed in many peoples that being sikh has just turned in ritual, ie religion. The dharmik aspect has been lost which was carried with the desi culture. Some families have been taking amrit since British times but their view seems rather Christian like, ie more for the ritual.


----------



## Dalvinder Singh Grewal (Jan 30, 2017)

lionprinceuk said:


> To give a frank answer in this instant - it is colonialism that introduced the definition of sikhism to colonial indians, in contrast to sikhi and sikh panth. Also introduced was the concept of following religion and God, both western and abrahamic concepts. This was all part of the divide and conquer strategies employed.
> 
> I have observed in many peoples that being sikh has just turned in ritual, ie religion. The dharmik aspect has been lost which was carried with the desi culture. Some families have been taking amrit since British times but their view seems rather Christian like, ie more for the ritual.



To state that Sikhism is influenced by the British appears to be a joke. It is clear that Sikhs are the followers of the Gurus 10+1 the Guru eternal; the Shabd Guru. It is the continuous learning of the shabad and following as well as living the same which makes one a true Sikh. Shabad Guru leads to spiritualism as well as guides towards true dharma or religion. Spirituality is  internal while dharma is external both however depending on guidance available in Shabad. Worshiping personalities  is not in Sikhism. The shabad as revealed to the gurus and to various saints is available in the form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib being called as the Guru eternal. Sikhs are thus the followers of the shabad or word as contained in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Spirituality inclined Sikh are not generally seen in open since it is  internal generally kept to oneself. Since it is not declared; to state that the number of spiritualists is falling will not be a correct statement. You will find them if you search for them and do research on them; they will never come to you or to anyone else and say that 'I am spiritualist'.


----------



## lionprinceuk (Feb 4, 2017)

This is why I contrast the colonial term sikh"ism" with the our own term of sikhi. And the colonial influences still exist in SGPC, in modern jathebandis, the fact angrez firanghi harmonium is used instead of gurmat sangeet tanti saaj, banis like Chaupai Sahib and Rehraas and Aarti Aarta being reduced, paranoia against Dasam Granth, disarmament of sikhs and Guru ordained shastars being reduced to just wearing a small kripaan with a gatra, not to mention de-emphasising the bani with the reduction of bani as well, reducing dumalla to just a cultural turban. Many colonial practises still are existing. I wonder how many more there are?


----------



## Dalvinder Singh Grewal (Feb 5, 2017)

lionprinceuk said:


> This is why I contrast the colonial term sikh"ism" with the our own term of sikhi. And the colonial influences still exist in SGPC, in modern jathebandis, the fact angrez firanghi harmonium is used instead of gurmat sangeet tanti saaj, banis like Chaupai Sahib and Rehraas and Aarti Aarta being reduced, paranoia against Dasam Granth, disarmament of sikhs and Guru ordained shastars being reduced to just wearing a small kripaan with a gatra, not to mention de-emphasising the bani with the reduction of bani as well, reducing dumalla to just a cultural turban. Many colonial practises still are existing. I wonder how many more there are?



Is there any link to all these evils to colonialism? It appears too far fetched.


----------



## lionprinceuk (Feb 10, 2017)

lionprinceuk said:


> This is why I contrast the colonial term sikh"ism" with the our own term of sikhi. And the colonial influences still exist in SGPC, in modern jathebandis, the fact angrez firanghi harmonium is used instead of gurmat sangeet tanti saaj, banis like Chaupai Sahib and Rehraas and Aarti Aarta being reduced, paranoia against Dasam Granth, disarmament of sikhs and Guru ordained shastars being reduced to just wearing a small kripaan with a gatra, not to mention de-emphasising the bani with the reduction of bani as well, reducing dumalla to just a cultural turban. Many colonial practises still are existing. I wonder how many more there are?


sorry I meant to say de-emphasising bani with reduction of bana.


----------



## Theologian. (Feb 11, 2017)

dalvindersingh grewal said:


> To state that Sikhism is influenced by the British appears to be a joke. It is clear that Sikhs are the followers of the Gurus 10+1 the Guru eternal; the Shabd Guru. It is the continuous learning of the shabad and following as well as living the same which makes one a true Sikh. Shabad Guru leads to spiritualism as well as guides towards true dharma or religion. Spirituality is  internal while dharma is external both however depending on guidance available in Shabad. Worshiping personalities  is not in Sikhism. The shabad as revealed to the gurus and to various saints is available in the form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib being called as the Guru eternal. Sikhs are thus the followers of the shabad or word as contained in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Spirituality inclined Sikh are not generally seen in open since it is  internal generally kept to oneself. Since it is not declared; to state that the number of spiritualists is falling will not be a correct statement. You will find them if you search for them and do research on them; they will never come to you or to anyone else and say that 'I am spiritualist'.


 
Sri Guru Granth Sahib is not Eternal, to treat it to the equivalence of God is....
It was written by Holy Men of God with inspiration through Guru Nanak's mission.
An object cannot be eternal, if you are trying to say in this world, then their would be evidence of this before Sikhism was, and their is not.
Now The Wonderful Counselor/Teacher (Waheguru), whom taught Guru Nanak a lot, is Eternal, as through him we receive instruction in order to qualify to meet the Mighty One.
Like Guru Nanak said - 'Become like King of Kings, says Nanak' page 25 Japji Sahib


----------



## Dalvinder Singh Grewal (Feb 11, 2017)

Theologian. said:


> Sri Guru Granth Sahib is not Eternal, to treat it to the equivalence of God is....
> It was written by Holy Men of God with inspiration through Guru Nanak's mission.
> An object cannot be eternal, if you are trying to say in this world, then their would be evidence of this before Sikhism was, and their is not.
> Now The Wonderful Counselor/Teacher (Waheguru), whom taught Guru Nanak a lot, is Eternal, as through him we receive instruction in order to qualify to meet the Mighty One.
> Like Guru Nanak said - 'Become like King of Kings, says Nanak' page 25 Japji Sahib



Sri Guru Granth Sahib is Guru eternal since it shall ever be the Guru of Sikhs and no human being hereafter shall be accepted as the living Guru. Guru Nanak was not the guiding light to all the gurus and saint contributors of Sri Guru Granth sahib. Baba Farid,  Bhagat Kabir, Namdev and many other contributors were not under the influence of Guru Nanak. A word of truth  received direct from God is considered as the word revealed. The Truthful essence of the banis  of contributors of leaves no doubt that it was the word revealed.


----------



## Theologian. (Feb 18, 2017)

dalvindersingh grewal said:


> Sri Guru Granth Sahib is Guru eternal since it shall ever be the Guru of Sikhs and no human being hereafter shall be accepted as the living Guru. Guru Nanak was not the guiding light to all the gurus and saint contributors of Sri Guru Granth sahib. Baba Farid,  Bhagat Kabir, Namdev and many other contributors were not under the influence of Guru Nanak. A word of truth  received direct from God is considered as the word revealed. The Truthful essence of the banis  of contributors of leaves no doubt that it was the word revealed.


What do you mean eternal, it cannot be eternal. Look up the definition sir.
I never said anyone after Guru Nanak should be accepted as a living Guru.
Guru Nanak was the light to Sikhism and inspiration to some of the Gurus, just to be clear you do deny this?
What do you mean by word revealed? How do you view it to have been fully revealed?


----------



## Sikhilove (Mar 10, 2017)

Theologian. said:


> What do you mean eternal, it cannot be eternal. Look up the definition sir.
> I never said anyone after Guru Nanak should be accepted as a living Guru.
> Guru Nanak was the light to Sikhism and inspiration to some of the Gurus, just to be clear you do deny this?
> What do you mean by word revealed? How do you view it to have been fully revealed?



Gyan is the Guru, the Guru is the Gyan. 

It's the Gyan that is Guru Granth Sahib Ji, we bow to the Gyan. The Gyan is eternal- because it's the Gyan of Truth


----------

