# Can You Believe This !



## drkhalsa (Aug 18, 2005)

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Taksal against kirtan by women in Golden Temple 
Amritsar, August 17
The Damdami Taksal, yesterday outrightly rejected the proposal for allowing the baptised women to perform “kirtan” inside the Harmandir Sahib, the sanctum sanctorum of Golden Temple. 
The Damdami Taksal’s resolve to oppose this move was also supported by the Sant Samaj, a conglomerate of Sikh preachers headed by Baba Sarbjot Singh Bedi, at a function here on the occasion of the death anniversary of Sant Kartar Singh Bhindrawale. 
It may be recalled that the SGPC had last week taken the decision to allow women to perform “kirtan” inside the Harmandir Sahib. The decision had been taken at a meeting of the SGPC’s Religious Advisory Board. 
It was observed at the board’s meeting that the Akal Takht would have a final verdict on the proposal of allowing “amritdhari” (baptised) Sikh women to perform “kirtan” inside the Harmandir Sahib. 
At yesterday’s convention at the Damdami Taksal headquarters at Chowk Mehta near here, four granthis of the SGPC, Jaswant Singh, Mal Singh, Jatinder Singh and Jagtar Singh, also gave their support to the Damdami Taksal’s viewpoint against the women’s performance of “kirtan” in the Harmandir Sahib. 
The Akal Takht Jathedar, Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti, is scheduled to summon a meeting of the Singh Sahibs and after detailed discussions the final decision on the “kirtan” would be pronounced which would be binding on the Sikh community. The Dharam Prachar Committee, while taking the decision, had announced that the baptised Sikh women who fulfilled a set “code of conduct” could approach the SGPC authorities to perform “kirtan sewa” at the Harmandir Sahib. — UNI



Click to expand...

 
can anybody enlighten me with rational the taksal is using in saying so*


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 19, 2005)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji KI fateh.

Actually there is NO RATIONALE....not one based on GURBANI.

Taksaal has always been male chauvanist...no women in panj sewa, no women in Akahnd paath sewa...etc etc ( presmuably because they mentruate and are unclean )..BUT not unclean enough for them to marry and to cook wash etc for them !!! Kabir asks the BRAHMAN..OH Brahman..IF you are SO SPECIAL.High Class....why did you come into this world the EXACT SAME WAY that I a low caste came. If Kabir Ji was around today he would ask these taksali pujarees the SAME Question..they had no qualms about being BORN from the same place as everybody else...but when it comes to doing Paath sewa..women are not allowed..Punj Piyaree sewa..woemn are not allowed..blah blah.

In Hazoor sahib they have a DIFFERENT AMRIT for women !! Kirpan da marit instead of Khande batte da amrit. Can you beleive the rationale they offer for this..Women cannot Take the KHANDA as it is too strong...so we give them Kirpan !!! Beat that ON the " RIDICULOUS METER SCALE !!

Here is a message i posted under a different thread on this Forum. Its worth repeating here as well.
Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji KI fateh.

GURU NANAK JI came....he caught our HAND and PULLED us out of the DEEP PIT into which the DHARAM DE THEKEDAARS... the "Owners of religion".... the Brahmins, the Bippars, the PRIESTS...had thrown us all in.

GURU JI EMPOWERED US...to stand on our own TWO FEET....follow the GURUBANI....and MEET GOD/AKALPURAKH/WAHEGURU DIRECTLY and Face to face without any intermediaries....middle men...agents...

What did we do... The moment GURU JI turned around..we ran back to the SAME BIPPAR/BRAHMIN/PRIEST/SANTBABA/MAHAPURASH....to BEG him to take care of our "DHARAM"..and let us make money !!!

WE "EMPOWERED" these Priests/High priests/ jathedars/ Dharam de thekedaars...to ACT on OUR BEHALF...to RULE our LIFE. we IGNORED the GURUBANI....the Guru's instructions..

NOW as they say Ghar dee billi sannu miao...OUR own house cat shows us his "TEETH" and growls at us !! Whose fault is this ??

IN GURMATT..what is the ULTIMATE AUTHORITY ?? ISNT it our GURBANI..GURU GRANTH JI ?? Then WHY are we NOT asking GURBANI ?/ GURU GRANTH JI ?? Why are we even bothering to ask the opinions of these priests ?? 

We have Committed the Ultimate.. SACRILEGE of "wrapping up GURBANI/GURU GRANTH JI" tightly shut in silk rumaals...and GIVEN these "priests" the POWER of ATTORNEY to sign our DEATH WARRANTS for us !!!

The GURU SAYS that ALL SIKHS are EQUALS.... The GURU SAYS all WOMEN are HIGH....So kio manda akheeyeh jit jammeh rajaan....How can you call them LOW whom give BIRTH to KINGS..The GURU EMPOWERS us ALL..men women and children...we tie our hands and hand over the chains to these priests to do as they wish !!!

The GURU made us the GURU KHALSA PANTH...in charge of our own DESTINY..not a bunch of kindergarten children...who have to be "controlled" by priests/jathedars/babas and sants.

We have the GURBANI..we have the MARYADA...but our hands are tied...
This RESOLUTION to Give equal rights to Amrtidharee Women the RIGHT to perform as raagis in Harmandir Sahib..was Passed 65 Years ago...not yesterday. These "dharam de thekedaars" have maanaged to BLOCK this progress for 65 years and will do so some more if we let them.

Guru Khalsa panth..take your destiny in YOUR OWN HANDS as the GURU intended. ANYTHING that is in line with GURBANI is 100% RIGHT. Anything that is CONTRA to GURBANI is 100% WRONG ( no matter of the Priests at harmandir do it )

Jarnail Singh


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## rooh (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: WHO ISN'T IMPURE?*

I quite agree and am baffled at the different treatment of men and women in Sikhi, when this is one religion where such differences hold no merit.  The Bani's concern is with our soul, which has no sex, gender etc.  

With regards to : because women menstruate, they are barred from certain religious rituals, seva etc.  I would ask, our body is full of germs and bacteria that we cannot see with our eyes, and our stomach is full of filth, which we eject daily.  Just because we cannot see this, does not mean it is not dirt, or impure.  Then how can we call women impure, when most of us are all in the same state, either physically or spiritually impure.


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## Lee (Aug 19, 2005)

Perhaps then the time is also right to question why we seperate the sexes and sit apart in Gurdwara?

Cheers,

Lee.


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## plamba (Aug 19, 2005)

Lee said:
			
		

> Perhaps then the time is also right to question why we seperate the sexes and sit apart in Gurdwara?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Lee.



Excellent point!

Can someone explain why women are segregated in gurdwaras in the presence of the Guru Granth (even though there no such injunction in the Sikh Reht Maryada) but not in the langar halls?

Puneet Singh Lamba
Boston, MA
http://sikhtimes.com
339.221.1561


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## etinder (Aug 19, 2005)

what it feels like that there must be a cultural root to the tradition of segregation rather than religious roots..
but lets discuss this issue in a separate thread.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikhphilosophy/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/5398-segregation-gender-gurudwaras.html#post13064

as far as the issue of not allowing women to do kirtan by taksal
guys give it a break..the times have changed and uts high time we get out of these brahiminical rituals and separatism ..its hasnt taken us any far and it wont take us any further..what i have always believed in that one of the major highligh of sikhi..is the equality and non discriminaton, let it be of anything ..age, gender caste, religion et al.

gurufateh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 20, 2005)

Lee said:
			
		

> Perhaps then the time is also right to question why we seperate the sexes and sit apart in Gurdwara?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Lee.


 
Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.

Actually Lee..GO AHEAD and sit among the Ladies the enxt time you go to Gurdwara...and IF somebody STOPS you...ask him/her the MARYADA/GURBANI reason ?? and then get back to the Forum.

NO GURDWARA has signs saying "LADIES ONLY"..or "MEN ONLY"...this is only at the loos.

Sitting in different places is just tradition....nothing maryada..

Jarnail Singh


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## Archived_member2 (Aug 20, 2005)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Those, who have realized the state where there is no difference between men and women, find them being out of this duality.

Others seek a place near the opposite sex, in a congregation or in loneliness.

Seekers go to Guru's door to become one with God, not to beware of duality.


Balbir Singh


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## A-A-A (Aug 21, 2005)

Sat Sri Akal all,

Lee, just wanted to say I agree with you. I think it's more important for families to sit together in the gurdwara, with both parents on hand to help answer the little ones' questions. 

Also, would stop all the running around by the little toddlers from Mom to Dad (and back again!) I've seen such parents being told off by the Sevadaars but if they could sit together in the first place, it wouldn't be a problem would it? 

As for the main topic, I guess this is what happens when we allow people to feel they have the right to speak for the entire Sikh community. I wonder, have they ever actually stated a REASON for their decision? 

A-A-A


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## truthseeker (Aug 21, 2005)

I just wanted to say that... about maybe 3 or 4 weeks ago..we went to a wedding and before the wedding had started a few of us decided that we wanted to do asa vi var before the actual wedding was to start. When we first started ( i happend to be the one doing the first shukai) the Gurdwara was empty expect for a man and his wife who were sitting next to eachother and no body said anything to them. Maybe because no one else was there or what not.. im not sure..

just thought i should share this with the sangat

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!


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## KSKhalsa (Aug 24, 2005)

Till date, father donot have the capacity yet to give the birth. So, if anybody have doubt about the priority, then take the example of Third Udasi of Sri Guru nanak Dev Ji. As per my opinion, if someone is respectful after the Nirankar, then it is only SHE. 

So, any doubt about the maryada is only for VadVivad.

Rest, I agree with the forum that it may be a tradition. However, generally Kirtan is performed by Kirtanya - He or She - but should be in actual Raag's atleast whomsoever perform this seva at Harimandir Sahib.

All suggestions are welcome -Meri mat thori Ram....

Guru Fateh

KSKhalsa


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## Prabhjyotsaini (Dec 29, 2005)

This is all about the hypocrisy of our so called religious leaders who are afraid of the fact that if women will be given prmission to work as raagis their importance will get reduced.
Its really ironic that in front of our Guru who gave equal rights to all men & women we atre doing such belittling acts.
Rgards,


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## devinesanative (Dec 29, 2005)

The raagis , thaadis , jathedars and thekedars are more or less use SGGS as their daily earning system .

But what concerns them , might be if a woman starts doing so ...... 

Scene : Woman Earning through raagis , kirtan etc ..

Woman Raagi to Jathedaar 

Woman Raagi : Sharm ni aundi Buddi di kamai khande hoye.Besharma...

Jathedar and thekedar , in a pale blue face , with his head down , like a ........


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