# Keshki Or Kesh



## Living Mind (Sep 23, 2004)

It has just recently come to my attention that some are preaching the Keshki as the first Kakar. I have always had the understanding and have always been told that the first Kakar is Kesh. Could some learned soul who has some knowledge on the matter, please throw some light on the topic?


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## Arvind (Sep 23, 2004)

Living Mind ji,

Keshki is not a kakar. Kesh is.

For the sake of completeness of this post, there are panj (5) kakar:
1.  Kanga
2.  Kachha
3.  Kara
4   Kirpan
5.  Kesh

Purpose of 5 kakars:
1. The Kanga seeks to reflect a Sikh's purity, the Sikh's orderliness.
2. The Kachha seeks to remind the Sikh of his/her vow of not committing adultery, further to remind the Sikh of their obligations towards one - that being the husband or wife. It also reminds the Sikh of his freedom, that he is not bound by any worldly government.
3. The Kara seeks to deter the Sikh from committing any type of sin.
4. The Kirpan seeks to remind the Sikh of his or her constant battle against sin
5. The Kesh not to interfere in natural process, and to be in God's will always.

I took above things from sikhnet, and the last sentence about Kachcha intrigued me, so keeping it here for further discussion here on in other thread.

Thanks.


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## Living Mind (Sep 23, 2004)

Sevadaar Singh said:
			
		

> Living Mind ji,
> 
> Keshki is not a kakar. Kesh is.
> 
> ...


I thank you Sevadaar Singh Ji and fully accept what you say and have posted. My concern is what some are preaching which is not in line to what is commonly known and accepted.
WGJK WGKF


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## Arvind (Sep 24, 2004)

Those preachers Dont know the facts.

As you rightly understand, they create more confusion than doing actual sewa.

Regards.


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## Bharat Vir Singh (Sep 26, 2004)

I recently came across somebody who was apparently looking like a Sikh,except that he had come to his 'gurdwara' wearing only a black commando-style _rumaal_ with tails(if you can visualize what I mean)and claimed that he was Amritdhari(he was wearing a big kirpaan).When I asked him why he was not wearing a _Dastaar_(turban)he replied that Keski is a Kakaar and Dastaar is not.He said Keski was essential,besides strict vegetarianism.He had taken amrit from Akhand Kirtani Jatha,and was following their code.So it is such break-away 'jathas'(groups) which are preaching such wrong views,which the gullible and easily impressionable,and unquestioning people are following.In fact these small jathas have even opened up their own 'gurdwaras' which are drawing away some people from standard,mainstream Sikhi.

I suggested to that person that Sikh Rehat Maryada as published by SGPC was supposed to be the standard code for a Sikh,but he argued and debated about it,saying that today everybody is following their own interpretation of Sikhi.Perhaps he may have a point there,which is worth considering seriously.

The Akal Takhat should pass a Gurmata(edict) declaring a universal Sikh Rehat Maryada,and debunking all controversial interpretations by off-shoots of 'babas','jathas',etc.


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## S|kH (Sep 26, 2004)

IF keski is not a kakkar, then how would you all defend the French Sikhs who want to wear turbans to school...obviously it shouldnt matter to them, as it is not a kakkar.

(I am in NO WAY saying it should be or is a kakkar... I am just asking how you all would defend the issue).


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## Sikh News Reporter (Sep 27, 2004)

Turban is required to properly take care of unshorn hair... Do you think there is any other way hair can be taken care of... ?


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## Living Mind (Sep 27, 2004)

Bharat Vir Singh said:
			
		

> I recently came across somebody who was apparently looking like a Sikh,except that he had come to his 'gurdwara' wearing only a black commando-style _rumaal_ with tails(if you can visualize what I mean)and claimed that he was Amritdhari(he was wearing a big kirpaan).When I asked him why he was not wearing a _Dastaar_(turban)he replied that Keski is a Kakaar and Dastaar is not.He said Keski was essential,besides strict vegetarianism.He had taken amrit from Akhand Kirtani Jatha,and was following their code.So it is such break-away 'jathas'(groups) which are preaching such wrong views,which the gullible and easily impressionable,and unquestioning people are following.In fact these small jathas have even opened up their own 'gurdwaras' which are drawing away some people from standard,mainstream Sikhi.
> 
> I suggested to that person that Sikh Rehat Maryada as published by SGPC was supposed to be the standard code for a Sikh,but he argued and debated about it,saying that today everybody is following their own interpretation of Sikhi.Perhaps he may have a point there,which is worth considering seriously.
> 
> The Akal Takhat should pass a Gurmata(edict) declaring a universal Sikh Rehat Maryada,and debunking all controversial interpretations by off-shoots of 'babas','jathas',etc.


I thank you Bharat Vir Singh Ji and further that our Holy Seat of Authority, the Akal Thakat should clarify matters.


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## Living Mind (Sep 27, 2004)

S|kH said:
			
		

> IF keski is not a kakkar, then how would you all defend the French Sikhs who want to wear turbans to school...obviously it shouldnt matter to them, as it is not a kakkar.
> 
> (I am in NO WAY saying it should be or is a kakkar... I am just asking how you all would defend the issue).


My understanding of the matter, as Bharat Vir Singh Ji has also clarified, that Kesh is the Kakar and one of the 5 K's as ordained by our Commander-in-Chief Guru Gobind Singh Ji. The Pagri or Pugh is to keep our covered and is both a sign of respect to the one we face as is it a siegn of pride to the wearer. It is just as rude of us to sit in company with our heads uncovered as it is for someone who has his hair cut and sits in company wearing a hat!

So coming to the issue of the turban in France, as I have mentioned in a posting sometime back, I do not feel that the French Govt had or has anything against the turban. We the sikhs are the unfortunate inclusion because of the muslims who are the the main reason of the ban. Their people, especially their women who wear the burkha are the targets as these women have been used time and again as walking timebombs.

As such, substituting the Keshki, I see as a willing win-win compromise for both sides without the French govt having to give-in to the Sikh demands and be accused by the muslims of racial discrimination or double standards.

We need to cover our hair and heads and the Keshki will do the job. After all it is only applicable for primary school children. If I am wrong, I stand to be corrected.


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## Arvind (Sep 27, 2004)

Living Mind ji,

First of all, this ban by french government should be taken as a restriction on freedom of religion.

I personally consider this as an interference with not a solid argumental base. Also, somewhere I read that the ban is on govt offices/employees too, and not only for public schools. Readers may bring out clearer picture.

Thanks.


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## Jugraj Singh (Oct 5, 2004)

From http://www.tapoban.org/keski.htm

Keski as Kakkar
Bh. Manmohan Singh Jee LA

Keski, Kesgi, chhoti dastaar (or mini turban) is the first important striking symbol which makes the members of the Akhand Kirtani Jatha conspicuous - especially the women. And, naturally, it is the first object of criticism. One very distinguished scholar, S. Kapur Singh states: "Bhai Randhir Singh and his admirers claim and assert that five K's obligatory for an Amritdhari Sikh, a Singh, include a Keski, i.e., a short turban for men and women, as a must and one of the other K's, Kangha (comb) is not one of the five Do's."

According to him "...It is wholly arbitrary and schismatic...and thus an act of sabotage against the solidarity and monolithicism of the Khalsa."20 Another critic asserts the rahit of Keski to be an "absolutely mundane" teaching of the Jatha having "no precedents" and thus being the "teaching of an individual."

Before taking up the question of whether 'Keski' is a symbol or not, it may be pointed out that in their eagerness to criticize Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, even the well versed Sikh scholars, like S. Kapur Singh, have not cared to verifify the facts before offering their criticism. Keski is not at all considered to replace Kangha as a symbol as asserted by him. It does, however, replace Keshas as a symbol because Keshas is the first fundamental requirement for a Sikh. Shaving or trimming of hair is the first of the four Cardinal Sins -Kurahits (Big Don'ts) - the commitment of any one of which makes one an apostate and results in one's automatic excommunication from the fold of the Khalsa Brotherhood. Moreover Keshas form part of the human body and are not obtained and worn like other Kakaars.

Sikh history is full of instances where the devout Sikhs were hacked joint by joint, boiled and even sawed alive, had their scalps cut' their limbs broken on the wheel, and faced bravely many other unbearable and severest of tortures, and yet remained firm in their faith to their last hair and breath.

Right from Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, the Sikhs have been commanded to abstain from shaving or trimming of hair. According to Bhai Sahib Mani Singh's Gyan Ratnavali and other Janam Sakhies, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, while initiating Bhai Mardana into the newly founded Sikh faith, laid down the following three-fold Code of Conduct for him:

"Firstly, you are not to cut your hair.
Secondly, you are to get up early in the morning and do practice of the Sat Naam; and,
Thirdly, you are to serve hospitably the visiting devotees of God."21

In another instance Sahib Sri Guru Hari Rai Ji, while blessing Bhai Nandlal, grandfather of Bhai Hakikat Rai with the Holy Naam, is reported to have codified as follows:

"Firstly, you are not to cut your hair;
Secondly, you are not to consume tobacco; and
Thirdly, you are not to wear a cap."

It is thus crystal clear that the injunction regarding abstaining from cutting Keshas was initiated by Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji himself and continued to be adhered to by all his successor Gurus. Hence the importance of keeping Keshas intact is the basic and fundamental requirement for becoming a Sikh. In fact, the Keshas are considered so sacred that for their cleanliness, care, and protection, two additional Kakaars, i.e. Kangha and Keski, have been prescribed in the Sikh Code of Conduct.

It is well known that the outward appearance of the Sikhs is absolutely unique and different from those of other faiths. This applies to all Sikhs irrespective of sex. The wearing of the Sikh symbols has been obligatory for both the sexes. In addition, Sikh women are also conspicuous because of the absence of any piercing ornaments for nose and ears, such as those customarily worn by women of other religions. After their initiation into the Khalsa fold by partaking Khande-ki-Pahul (Amrit), the Sikh women have always tied their Keshas in the form of topknot and covered the same with Dastaar (i.e. Keski) just as men do; the only difference being that they wear chunnies or dupattas over their small turbans.

Right up to the reign of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Sikh women had been steadfast in following the edicts of the Satguru in respect to their spiritual inner life as well as dress, including Keski. That is what J. D. Cunningham himself saw and wrote in the middle of the Nineteenth Century when he wrote his book, History of the Slkhs.

Even after the Punjab came under the British rule, this symbol of Keski was conspicuously seen in case of Sikh women as well as men right up to the Gurdwara movement and the establishment of the Shromani Gurudwara Parbandhak Committee in 1926. Until then, no one - man as well as woman was allowed to be baptized (by taking Amrit) at Sri Akal Takht Sahib without Keski. It was only afterwards that laxity was introduced in this respect and the wearing of Keski was made optional. With the introduction of this laxity, the other anti-Sikh practice of wearing piercing ornaments in the nose and ears also became prevalent in Sikh women.

This is a brief summarized account of the historical background in this regard. In the following pages, an effort has been made to elaborate a bit on the above points by presenting certain facts:

i. Rahit Naama of Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji contains the following couplet regarding 'rahits':

Kachh, Kada, Kirpan, Kangha, Keski.
Eh Panj Kakaari Rahit Dhaarey Sikh Soyee.

To be a Sikh, one must observe five rahits of wearing five Sikh symbols beginning with 'K': Kachh, Kada, Kirpan, Kangha, and Keski. (Those Sikhs not believing in keski have wrongfully broken the word Keski in this couplet into two words, Kes and Ki, indicating it to mean "the rahit of keshas.")

ii. The renowned scholar of the Panth, Bhai Sahib Kahan Singh Ji of Nabha, compiled the Encyclopedia of Sikh Literature and Terminology (Gur Shabad Ratnagar MAHAN KOSH) in 1926. The term 'Keski' has been explained therein on page 254,
Col. 3 of its Second Edition published by the Punjab Government in 1960, as:

Keski: Noun - small turban worn to protect hair.

iii. Well known 19th Century English Historian, J. D. Cunningham (1812-1851) who was an eye witness to the First Anglo-Sikh War, in his History of the Sikhs - 1848
refers to Sikh women of that time as follows:

"The Sikh women are distinguished from Hindus of their sex by some variety of dress, chiefly by a higher topknot of hair."22
Higher topknot of hair on Sikh women's heads automatically implies their coverage by some sort of turban, as Cunningham has connected it with "some variety of dress." 

iv. According to the Sikh history, Sahib Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji, impressed and pleased by the untiring and devoted labor of love and selfless service of Baba (later Guru)
Amardas Ji' bestowed upon him Siropas in the form of Dastaars a number of times.
Even now this tradition of bestowing Dastaar as a Siropa continues at Sri Akal Takht
Sahib and other Takhts and Gurdwaras. 

v. Sahib Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji's hymn on page 1084 clearly states: 

Naapaak Paak Kar Hadoor Hadeesa
Sabat Surat Dastaar Sira. 
Make unpure (mind) pure. It is the true adherence to the Muslim Law (Hadees).
(One can obtain this objective) by keeping one's body unviolated and by always
wearing a turban on head.
The above instruction to keep the body in its original complete form and to wear turban
is meant for all, irrespective of sex. 

vi. The tradition of "double dastaar" prevalent amongst Khalsa men was also the result
of the practice of keeping Keski under the big turban so that they may never remain
bareheaded. Keeping this very tradition in view, the British rulers of India prescribed
wearing of double dastaar, i.e., one small (also referred to as an under turban) and the
other outer big one, as part of the official uniform for Sikh members of the armed
forces. They were, and perhaps are even now, officially provided with two turbans,
one big and one small, as part of their uniforms. 

vii. At the end of the nineteenth century and the beginning of the present one, as a result
of the Sikh renaissance movement, a number of Khalsa schools for girls were
established in Punjab. Small dastaar (Keski) was prescribed as an obligatory head
dress for students as well as teachers in such schools at Jaspalon, Ferozepur and
Sidhwan in Punjab. 

viii. . In a number of Rahitnaamas, the importance of keeping hair always covered with
Dastaar has been emphasized very clearly. A few quotations are given below: 

"Each candidate for Baptism be made to wear kachhehra, tie hair in a topknot and cover the same with dastaar; wear Sri Sahib (i.e. Kirpan) in Gaatra (shoulder belt). Then he/she should stand with folded hands." (Rahitnama Bhai Daya Singh Ji)
"...Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa should keep his hair unshorn, have flowing beard and have simple dastaar which saves him from impiety. Then the Sikhs asked what would happen to those Amrltdharis who start cutting their hair or do not keep their hair covered. The Guru replied that they would be stupid and will lose their sensibility It is a blemish to remain bareheaded...Always keep two turbans. When the bigger turban is removed, the smaller be kept. The smaller turban should not be removed."

(Bijai Mukat Dharam Shastra - Sakhi-8)
"(A Sikh) who eats food with turban removed from the head (i.e., bareheaded) is destined for 'Kumbhi' hell."
(Rahit Rama Bhai Prahlad Singh Ji)

"One who combs hair twice a day, ties turban fold by fold and cleans teeth everyday will not come to grief."
(Tankhah Naama Bhai Nandlal Ji)

"Whosoever roams about bareheaded, takes food bareheaded and distributes the 'prasad' bareheaded is considered punishable."
(Uttar-prashan Bhai Nandlal Ji)

"Women should tie their hair in topknot and should not keep them loose."
(Rahitnama Bhai Daya Singh Ji)

"Keshas be washed. Turban or dastaar should not be placed on floor but should always be kept with due respect. Food should not be eaten bareheaded."
(Bijai Mukt Dharam Shastra, Sakhi 70)

It is thus, absolutely clear from the above quotations that remaining bareheaded at any time (except when washing, drying, and combing) and keeping hair loose and unknotted are basically against the Sikh Code of Conduct, which is applicable to all, men and women alike. For obvious reasons, therefore, the use of small dastaar or keski is indispensable. There is no other way to keep the head covered all the time. Sikhs - men as well as women - who wear only big turbans and dupattas, mostly remain bareheaded, at least in the privacy of their own homes, while taking food, etc., and thus are, perhaps unconsciously, infringing the Sikh Code of Conduct in this respect.



A FEW HISTORICAL AND OTHER FACTS IN THIS RESPECT:

1.Well-known Sikh historian Bhai Sahib Bhai Santokh Singh has given a somewhat detailed description concerning Mai Bhag Kaur (commonly known as Mai Bhago) of Forty Muktas fame in his well known historical work GUR PARTAP SURYA. He mentions that Mai Bhag Kaur had reached the highest stage of enlightenment and had almost lost her body consciousness...so much so that when her clothes became worn to shreds, she did not care to replace them. Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji called her in His Holy presence and instructed her to always stick to the Gursikh dress as prescribed in the Code of Conduct. In particular, she was ordered to wear Kachhehra and chhoti dastaar. In fact, according to some chroniclers, the dastaar was tied on her head by the Satguru himself. If this dastaar was not a Rahit, where was the need to include this item in the instructions given to a lady who had reached almost the Brahmgyan stage? It apparently shows that the Satguru gave as much importance to Dastaar as to other Rahits like Kachhehra.

2. In the Museum of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's fort at Lahore and Victoria Museum at Calcutta, the pictures of Sikh women of old time can be seen even now, depicting them with small dastaars or keskis.

3. Bhai Sahib Vir Singh, in his well known poetical work, RANA SURAT SINGH, depicts Rani Raj Kaur as a Saint Soldier or Rajyogi of the highest order. Her very impressive picture given in the book depicts her with a well-tied Keski, on which is also affixed a khanda-chakkar, the emblem of Sikhism.

4. The Sikh women belonging to the Jatha of Bhai Sahib (Sant) Teja Singh Ji of Mastuana, have been seen doing Kirtan in congregations wearing dastaars. He was instrumental in establishing Akal Academy - a Higher Secondary School at Baru in Himachal Pradesh wherin all students - boys as well as girls - are required to wear turbans as a prescribed school uniform.

5. The Central Majha Diwan and Panch Khalsa Diwan, Bhasaur - the two organizations which played a remarkable role in the Sikh renaissance movement in the first decade of the twentieth century laid special stress on the wearing of Keski by women.

6. The author had the privilege of meeting the late Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa of the Bhindranwala Jatha along with his whole family, including his wife, two sons and their wives. They were all wearing Keskis just as the members of the Akhand Kirtani Jatha do.

7. It is a historical fact that there was a time when a price was put on the head of a male Sikh. Greedy and unprincipled people, both Hindus and Muslims, availed of this opportunity to make money. When they could no longer find male Sikhs in the villages and towns, they started beheading Khalsa women and presenting their heads as the heads of young unbearded teenager Sikh lads. As such, many Sikh women, out of fear of persecution, stopped wearing Keski and converted topknot of hair into fashionable styles like women of other faiths. This practice, which originated in a helpless state of affairs, became a fashion in due course of time. By the way, it was perhaps under these very abnormal circumstances that Sikh women also started wearing ear and nose ornaments to avoid the disclosure of their Sikh identity.

8. S. Shamsher Singh Ashok who has been an active member of the Singh Sabha movement and an erstwhile Research Scholar of the S.G.P.C., while discussing the prevalence of the use of 'keski', states:
"...and, consequently in the Amrit-Parchaar at the Akal Takht Sahib, this was a precondition even for ladies before they could be baptized there. Any woman who was not prepared to wear Keski was not baptized. This practice continued even after the end of the Gurdwara movement. Relaxation was made only when Giani Gurmukh Singh Musafir became the Jathedar of the Akal Takht."23

9. A recent discovery from old literature puts a final seal on the Keski having been prescribed as a Rahit by the Tenth Guru himself. While going through the old Vahis of the Bhatts, lying with their successors in Karnal District in Haryana State, Prof. Piara Singh Padam of Punjabi University Patiala came across a paragraph explaining the first baptism of the double-edged sword bestowed by Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji on the First Five Beloved Ones on the Baisakhi of 1699 A.D. and the Code of Conduct imparted to them on that auspicious occasion. Based upon the language and style, this manuscript has been assessed to have been written in about the end of the eighteenth century. As this finding is of special significance in this respect, the English translation of the whole paragraph is reproduced below:

"Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Tenth Guru, son of Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji, in the year Seventeen Hundred Fifty Two, on Tuesday - the Vaisakhi day - gave Khande-Ki-Pahul to Five Sikhs and surnamed them as Singhs. First Daya Ram Sopti, Khatri resident of Lahore stood up. Then Mohkam Chand Calico Printer of Dawarka; Sahib Chand Barber of Zafrabad city; Dharam Chand Jawanda Jat of Hastnapur; Himmat Chand Water Carrier of Jagannath stood up one after the other. All were dressed in blue and he himself also dressed the same way. Huqqah, Halaal, Hajaamat, Haraam, Tikka, Janeyu, Dhoti, were prohibited. Socialization with the descendants of Prithi chand (Meenay), followers of Dhirmal and Ram Rai, clean shaven people and Masands was prohibited. All were given Kangha, Karad, KESGI, Kada and Kachhehra. All were made Keshadhari. Everyone's place of birth was told to be Patna, of residence as Anandpur. Rest, Guru's deeds are known only to the Satguru. Say Guru! Guru! Guru! Guru will help everywhere."24

This discovery is a landmark in this respect: Kesgi or Keski has not only been clearly mentioned as one of the five K's, but also the specific and seperate mention of making all Sikhs Keshadharies, makes it clear beyond any shadow of a doubt that Keshas are not included in the Five Symbols (i.e., Five K's): in other words, keeping them intact is a separate and specific injunction for all Sikhs. (By the way, regarding eating meat, both Halaal and Haraam- the Muslim description of any meat other than Halaal - were also forbidden. It means that eating meat was totally prohibited.)

It is thus abundantly dear that Keski has been in vogue right from the birth of the Khalsa Nation and is not the innovation of Bhal Sahib Randhir Singh or anybody else. 


A FEW POINTS OF RATIONALE WHY KESKI AND NOT KESHAS IS ONE OF THE FIVE SIKH SYMBOLS.

Now let us consider why Keski and not Keshas is one of the Sikh symbols. By considering Keski as a symbol, the importance of Keshas IS NOT UNDERMINED IN ANY WAY. In fact, the Keshas are the basic and fundamental edifice of Sikhism without which no one can become a Sikh. The following points are put forth for a rational and unbiased consideration in this respect:

1.Keshas are the natural blessing of the Creator. They grow from within the body and develop gradually with age as other parts of the body. As against it, all other symbols or kakaars are external and are put on the body from outside. Even a very devout Sikh may, at times, be forced to remain without any one of the four symbols under circumstances beyond his control. This cannot happen with Keshas, which do not fall in line with the other four symbols and are in a class by themselves.

2. Kangha, which is one of the symbols, is kept for the upkeep of the Keshas (which is also generally considered a symbol). No other symbol is meant for the protection of any other symbol, these being for the protection of the body or some part of it. Evidently, therefore, Keshas cannot be considered as an outer symbol but a part of the body for the protection of which Kangha and Keski are required to be kept as symbols.

The RAHITS, including the wearing of the external Five Symbols (Keski, Kachhehra, Kangha, Kada and Kirpan) fall in the category of DO's, while Kurahits (Cardinal Sins or Taboos), including cutting of the hair, are placed in the category of DON'TS. The vested interests try to intermingle them. In this way, they unconsciously belittle the value of Keshas. They should realize that the value of all outer symbols is alike.

4. Then there is an evident anomaly in the commonly accepted Code of Conduct with regard to Keshas. These are included in the category of four cardinal sins which are so basically important that commitment of any one of these by a Sikh makes him an apostate. These are, then, also included in the category of Rahits, the infringement of which makes a Sikh merely a Tankhaeeya or punishable. Evidently there is definite incongruity in it which defies logical or rational explanation. The only logical explanation, therefore, is that the Keshas are not included in Rahits but are one of the four major Kurahits (Taboos or Cardinal Sins): A Sikh must not cut hair.

5. The wearing of Keski enables Sikh women to show their distinctiveness of
being Sikh or Khalsa like men. The importance of this Khalsa distinctiveness has
been clearly emphasized by the Tenth Guru for the Khalsa as a community, both
men and women, and not for men only.

6. At the time of the baptismal ceremony, the same Amrit (Khande-Ki-Pahul) is administered to all without any distinction, including that of sex. The title of Khalsa is bestowed on all of them. The same way of life and Code of Conduct is enjoined upon all of them. All of them are forbidden to roam about, take food, etc. bareheaded. How, then, have women become exempt from any of these injunctions? Keski is the only answer to this contradiction.

In view of all the aforesaid, it is clear that Keski or small turban has been traditionally worn by Sikhs, or Khalsa men and women, right from the birth of the Khalsa Nation. This Rahit has been enunciated and strongly emphasized by the Satguru himself. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, the Akhand Kirtani Jatha, and a few other individuals and organizations are preserving this dignified Khalsa Rahit with Guru's grace. Having become aware of these facts, the Sikh intellegentia has also started showing a remarkable response in this regard. If the Khalsa is to live in accordance with the Rules of true Gurmat , both Khalsa men and women have to accept it. Keski is the crown bestowed by the Satguru for the head of the Khalsa, whether man or woman, who stands bestowed with the special form of the Satguru himself. By refraining from the use of Keski, a Sikh becomes a follower of his own ego instead of the Will of the Satguru. Wearing of Keski by Sikh women is decried mainly because modern day Sikhs want their women to fall in line with other women with respect to the so called modern way of life, including the modern fashions of dress. Sikhs - both men and women - will continue to be guilty of showing disrespect to the sacred hair by keeping them uncovered. In fact, it is the Keski's nonacceptance (and not its acceptance) that is very unconsciously eviscerating the Rahit Namas of their "tremendous and literally unlimited potency that operates on the collective subconscious level" of the Sikhs in general. One fails to understand how the use of Keski "...destroys the purity of the Khalsa Rahit and sabotages the unity of the Khalsa", as alleged by some. In fact, the shoe is on the other foot. If Keski is accepted by all Khalsa men and women, it will help in maintaining the purity and ensuring the unity of the Khalsa, as even women of the Khalsa faith, like the Khalsa men, will be distinguishable.


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## Arvind (Oct 6, 2004)

Welcome jugraj ji, Thanks for your post.

Well, I must say this is something new to me, where someone mentions 'Kesh' as not a kakaar.

Thanks.


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 6, 2004)

Jugraj Singh ji,

Welcome to the forum. 

Are you sure the above article is written by Bhai Manmohan Singh ji? The contents do echo Bhai Sahib's sentiments as he belongs to AKJ.

I know him personally and I had no idea he wrote anything in english. Could you please clarify my query?

Off subject. The only person that seem authentic towards GURMAT in AKJ is Bhai Jeevan Singh ji. Well thats my opinion. Unfortunately he has been under the weather since the stroke.

Thanx

Tejwant.


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## Neutral Singh (Oct 6, 2004)

Tejwant Ji,

Why there are doubts and non-clearity in the matter of whether Kesh or Keshki ? Is there something contradictory written in history books ? Any reference would be helpful.

Thanks


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 7, 2004)

> Neutral Singh writes:-
> 
> Why there are doubts and non-clearity in the matter of whether Kesh or Keshki ? Is there something contradictory written in history books ? Any reference would be helpful.


Neutral Singh ji,

I thank you for inflating my ego by asking a question of such an importance to a layman like myself.

As mentioned before, I am neither a scholar, nor a historian or possess any intellectual traits. I am a seeker and pray to remain as such.

Now back to your question, I invite you to think aloud with me.

When Guru Gobind Singh ji founded the Khalsa Panth, he asked us to keep 5K's.
Kesh
Kungah
Kecherah
Karaah
Kripaan

If Keshki were to be one of our 5K's rather than Kesh, then It would indicate that covering our heads is more important than our kesh. In other words SARDAARI ( only nobles wore turbans) came before spirituality, Or shall we put it in this way that MIRI had more importance than PIRI.

Now the question arises, Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji who established Khalsa Panth want us to stand out without being outstanding? 

I do not think so as the amber of seeking ONE GOD does not lie in the type of Keshki we wear but in the heart and soul of each being - within- and can only be ignited by GURMAT.

If Keshki were more important than the Kesh then why would men be required to keep their facial hair?

Small groups like AKJ have created their own rules and regulations in order to add a twist in their Gurmat path. Unfortunately they feel themselves the chosen ones with all these rituals which do not add any more octane in the CREATIVE ENERGY that we all seek. A sikh should never forget that SABH GOBIND HEIN- every being is The Chosen one-.

As Sardaari is a destination whereas Sikhi is a journey. It is sad to see that Sardaari has been encouraged to overtake Sikhi.

How can one reach the destination one seeks without stepping on the SIKHI PATH? 

Tejwant


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## Arvind (Oct 7, 2004)

Emphasizing Tejwant ji's post about Miri-Piri, I would like to bring out - In another thread, Amarpal ji mentioned about Nishan Sahib of Gurudwara Harmandar Sahib standing taller than that of Akaal Takhat. 

I dont have any reference or knowledge to prove anything, but somehow feel these kind of events as distortion only, where Kesh are not taken as a Kakaar! So Leaving feelings aside, me too joining you looking forward to factful information.

Regards.


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## Jugraj Singh (Oct 7, 2004)

Veer Vaheguruseeker ji,

you said

>>>If Keshki were to be one of our 5K's rather than Kesh, then It would indicate that covering our heads is more important than our kesh.
>>>

Well no. This is illogical. You can not be a Sikh without your kesh. Cutting your kesh is a bujjar kurehit. If you cut your hair you are no longer an amritdhari. However if you take off a kakkar then you simply go to the panj and get forgiven you by no means have broken your amrit if you take off a kakkar.

It seems to me that calling kesh a kakkar is giving kesh less importance then it's meant to have.

>>>
In other words SARDAARI ( only nobles wore turbans) came before spirituality, Or shall we put it in this way that MIRI had more importance than PIRI.
>>>

How did you come to associate a keski with sardari? Please explain your logic. how do you know what guru sahib was thinking when he gave us the gift of keski? The truth is you don't know. ONly guru sahib knows his reasons for doing things. We can only make guesses.

>>>>
Now the question arises, Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji who established Khalsa Panth want us to stand out without being outstanding? 
>>>

What are you on about? Singhs have always been niralay and will be niralay for all time. WE have a unique appearance a unique lifestyle and definitelya unique goal in life. Your points seem clever but they lack substance. Please give examples of what you are talking about.

>>>
I do not think so as the amber of seeking ONE GOD does not lie in the type of Keshki we wear but in the heart and soul of each being - within- and can only be ignited by GURMAT.
>>>

when i first read the above statement ... i scratched my head a bit trying to understand your logic.The fact of the matter is that we can only reach the ONE GOD by following the one true Guru. Guru Nanak. Meaning that we follow his hukams to the best of our abilities. Guru's hukam is to follow rehit. Without rehit we are nothing. Without rehit we live in our own cleverness. Without rehit we are like the honey bees... we have access to so much ras but never develop an appreciation for it.

The sharda that we have in our hearts will manifiest itself in devotion to the guru... a longing and drive to follow his every hukam to the best of our ability and to beg for a chance to serve mindy body and soul. 

A lot of people can talk about pyar ... but those who walk the path don't talk abou it... they are too busy living it. 


>>>>
If Keshki were more important than the Kesh then why would men be required to keep their facial hair?
>>>>

Not only men but all sikhs are required to keep ALL kesh on their body. 

I don't think you are familiar with concept of bujjar kurehit.

1) cutting hair
2) eating meat
3) intoxicants
4) pre marital sex/ adultery

if you do any of these you are not a sikh anymore. 

You also said in one of your posts that, in your opinion, their is only one authetic AKJ person.

Well all I have to say is this. We do ardass everyday and say, "... dekh kay andith kitay.." as in we are showing appreciation for those who looked away from others faults.

Your posts seem to contradict themselves. 

1st you say that it's what inside the person that matters... then you go onto say that you only know of 1 person in all of AKJ who is authentic. WEll how do you know what's inside of peoples hearts. According to your own logic you shouldn't be so quick to judge.

It's easy to write off Singhs who are trying to keep rehit when you don't even know them... it's easier still to life your life in ignorance of Sikhi ... and easier still to not have any sikhi at all.

No one ever said that the path was easy. Noone ever said you won't have to rethink your understanding of the world of and of yourself. 

We have to kill our haumai every step of the way. Putting guru's will above our own and asking for the strength to live in bhana.

I know Singhs who keep a lot of rehit and I've known them for a while now. I have noticed a pattern as well. The more rehit you keep the more pyar you have for guru sahib. 

If it's all inside of us then why even bother doing paath. If we already have the thirst to meet God and are such pure souls then why did guru sahib say, "...antar gath teerath mal nao".

The fact is that we are all here because we are not pure souls. Our hearts and minds have lifetimes of bad karmas deposited on them. We think of nothing but ourselves and are engrossed in maya. That's why we are here and not in Sach Khand. That's why we need to follow guru's hukam. 

Lastly,

Please reread the article by Bh. manmohan Singh Jee on Keski. I don't think you did otherwise you wouldn't have posted the questiosn you did because he answers them.

i apologize if this seems harsh but your words about AKJ lacking authentic people really hurt...even it is your opinion next time keep it to urself.

I feel the Akhand Keertani Jatha is the back bone of the panth.  Singhs are keeping puratan rehits alive.  that's what makes a sikh... rehit.  and b4 anyone says ... yes amrit is rehit...amritvela is rehit... nitnem paath...not swearing ... all minor and major things are rehit.


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 8, 2004)

Jugraj Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for expressing your viewpoint. Before I respond to your interesting dissection of the post, can you please clarify that  if Keski is Kakaar for you or not. If it is, then why and if it is not then why not? And also do you disagree about what I wrote about Bhai Jeevan Singh ji?

Thanks

Tejwant


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## Jugraj Singh (Oct 8, 2004)

I belive keski is a kakkar.  Why?  I belive that Bhai Manmohan Singhs lekh outlines that clearly enough.  I wouldn't have posted it if I didn't agree with it.  


As for Bhai Jeeven Singh jee... I don't know him personally and have only had the chance to say fateh to him once.  I know he does amazing keertan with a lot of pyar and he is an amazing and inspiring person.  The rest guru sahib knows.

What are your views on Bhai Jeeven Singh? 

guru fateh


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 9, 2004)

Jugraj ji,

 I am still waiting for your response regarding the author of the article you posted. If you know Bhai Manmohan Singh, you may also be aware that he does not write in english. If he wrote this article in Punjabi, I would appreciate if you could post the original article and  also the name of the person who translated it?

Thanks

Tejwant

PS:- I am not trying to avoid to respond to your posts but wanted to keep the record straight so we can fruitfully discuss about the article and the  confusion of Keshki as Kakaar to be or not to be.


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## Jugraj Singh (Oct 9, 2004)

Tejwant Singh ji,

I don't know bhai Manmohan Singh.  I don't know if he wrote the article in Punjabi or English.  If it was written in PUnjabi I'm not sure who translated.

However, substance of the article is clear in the point that keski is a kakkar.  If you don't agree with any of the supporting points than please feel free to discuss them.

If it makes you feel better pretend that the article was written by a anonymous person.  I agree with the points mentioned in the article ... regardless of who might have written it.


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 9, 2004)

Jugraj Singh ji,

Thanks for your response once again. So it is not established who the true author is but as you identify with its contents, lets go with that.

Lets leave the rehatnaamas aside as they are written by  people who were as fallible as you and myself but  try to find the answer through GURBANI our only reference treasure.

I am sure you must have studied the following verse in details as you identify with the article. Can you please give me the whole verse which is in the article and also its meaning and significance. And last but not the least, could you please let me know who GURU SAHIB is talking to in this verse about the turban and why?



> v. Sahib Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji's hymn on page 1084 clearly states:
> 
> Naapaak Paak Kar Hadoor Hadeesa
> Sabat Surat Dastaar Sira.
> ...


I am eager to learn a lot from you.

Tejwant


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 9, 2004)

> Not only men but all sikhs are required to keep ALL kesh on their body.
> 
> I don't think you are familiar with concept of bujjar kurehit.
> 
> ...


Jugraj Singh ji,

 As we are SIKHS, meaning seekers and learners, please bear with my ignorance.

Can you pls give me the references from SGGS for the above four that you mentioned as bujjar kurehat?

I would like to remind ourselves again that only SGGS is our AMRITSAR. nothing more...noone else..

Tejwant


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## Jugraj Singh (Oct 11, 2004)

>>>>Can you pls give me the references from SGGS for the above four that you mentioned as bujjar kurehat?

I would like to remind ourselves again that only SGGS is our AMRITSAR. nothing more...noone else..
>>>>

The reason that I am starting with your latter post is to make one point clear.  Do you believe that if something is not contained in the Sri Guru Granth SAhib ji then it is not to be followed?

I hope this is not the case.  Guru Gobind Singh Jee's bani is not in the Guru Granth SAhib.  Infact 3 out of the 5 nitnem banis are not from the Guru Granth SAhib.  During the amrit sanchar when amrit is being made the 5 morning banis are read while preparing the amrit and 3 of them are not in the Guru Granth SAhib.  While the seekers are waiting for amrit, many times they are told to continue the recital of chaupai sahib daa patth (Guru Gobind Singh jee's bani)  indefinitely until instructed to stop.

I hope that you can acknowledge that a lot of Sikhi rehit is not explicitly visible in the Guru Granth Sahib.  I know Bani contains all knowlede and my faith tells me that BAni is infinite and thus contains everything however I am not at the level where I can communicate the meanings of Gurbani to someone else when i don't understand them myself.

Now that we have that cleared up, it is important to acknowledge during all amrit sanchars regardless of what jatha someone belongs to, it is made perfectly clear that 
1) cutting hair is forbiddn
2) extra marital sex is forbidden
3) intoxicants are forbidden 
the 4) point of eating meat is generally forbidden but certain groups insist on being able to eat meat in emegencies and prepared in a certain way.  This is a while another discussion altogether.


As for the gubani tuk and your translation:

"Naapaak Paak Kar Hadoor Hadeesa
Sabat Surat Dastaar Sira. 
Make unpure (mind) pure. It is the true adherence to the Muslim Law (Hadees).
(One can obtain this objective) by keeping one's body unviolated and by always
wearing a turban on head.
The above instruction to keep the body in its original complete form and to wear turban is meant for all, irrespective of sex. 
>>>>

Sabat Surat = natural form 

Dastaar = a sign of izat/respect/honor/integrity

sira = head on which Dastaar is placed

the meaning as i understand it is that: 

Maintaining our natural form gives equivalent respect/ or is equilvalent in respect to wearing dastaar on one's head.  This is because in the muslim history and infact not just in muslim culture but in cultures all over the world hair and dastaar were and still are considered a sign of respect and honor.

I think the following from Bhai ManMohan Singh's article applies:

>>>>
1.Keshas are the natural blessing of the Creator. They grow from within the body and develop gradually with age as other parts of the body. As against it, all other symbols or kakaars are external and are put on the body from outside. Even a very devout Sikh may, at times, be forced to remain without any one of the four symbols under circumstances beyond his control. This cannot happen with Keshas, which do not fall in line with the other four symbols and are in a class by themselves.
>>>>

In my understanding guru sahib is stressing the importance of maintaining our natural form.  

input from others would be greatly welcome especially where understanding of gurbani is concerned.

Veer Tejwant  ji, can you please outline your points as I have done... because i am busy with work and it would be much easier if I could simply see your points outlined in one large post rather then answering specific queries ... we could deal with the whole picture at once and save time.

Thanks.

Jugraj Singh


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 11, 2004)

Jugraj Singh ji,

I asked you the following:-

_I am sure you must have studied the following verse in details as you identify with the article. Can you please give me the whole verse which is in the article and also its meaning and significance. And last but not the least, could you please let me know who GURU SAHIB is talking to in this verse about the turban and why?_



> v. Sahib Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji's hymn on page 1084 clearly states:
> 
> Naapaak Paak Kar Hadoor Hadeesa
> Sabat Surat Dastaar Sira.
> ...


Instead of giving the full verse you again copied and pasted the same part which is very small as compare to the whole verse.



> I hope that you can acknowledge that a lot of Sikhi rehit is not explicitly visible in the Guru Granth Sahib. I know Bani contains all knowlede and my faith tells me that BAni is infinite and thus contains everything however I am not at the level where I can communicate the meanings of Gurbani to someone else when i don't understand them myself.


Jugraj Singh ji,

Does that mean we should disregard what is in SGGS or shall we consult it before going to the historical events?



> Maintaining our natural form gives equivalent respect/ or is equilvalent in respect to wearing dastaar on one's head. This is because in the muslim history and infact not just in muslim culture but _in cultures all over the world hair and dastaar were and still are considered a sign of respect and honor._


*In other words SARDAARI ( only nobles wore turbans) came before spirituality, Or shall we put it in this way that MIRI had more importance than PIRI.*


Thanks for proving my point above in the first post. Sardaari does mean being respectful and honorable.

Your are also wrong about saying that in Islam they do not cut their hair. They do cut their hair and mustaches.

Let me put the whole verse and after studying it fully, I would urge your comments on it and also please let me know how this verse relates to the kakaar as keshki in the article.



*Page 1083*



mwrU mhlw 5 ] (1083-13)
maaroo mehlaa 5.
Maaroo, Fifth Mehl:
Alh Agm KudweI bMdy ] (1083-13, mwrU, mÚ 5)
alah agam khudaa-ee banday.
O slave of the inaccessible Lord God Allah,

Coif iKAwl dunIAw ky DMDy ] (1083-14, mwrU, mÚ 5)
chhod khi-aal dunee-aa kay DhanDhay.
forsake thoughts of worldly entanglements.

hoie pY Kwk PkIr muswPru iehu drvysu kbUlu drw ]1] (1083-14, mwrU, mÚ 5)
ho-ay pai khaak fakeer musaafar ih darvays kabool daraa. ||1||
Become the dust of the feet of the humble fakeers, and consider yourself a traveller on this journey. O saintly dervish, you shall be approved in the Court of the Lord. ||1||

scu invwj XkIn muslw ] (1083-14, mwrU, mÚ 5)
sach nivaaj yakeen muslaa.
Let Truth be your prayer, and faith your prayer-mat.

mnsw mwir invwirhu Awsw ] (1083-15, mwrU, mÚ 5)
mansaa maar nivaarihu aasaa.
Subdue your desires, and overcome your hopes.

dyh msIiq mnu maulwxw klm KudweI pwku Krw ]2] (1083-15, mwrU, mÚ 5)
dayh maseet man ma-ulaanaa kalam khudaa-ee paak kharaa. ||2||
Let your body be the mosque, and your mind the priest. Let true purity be God's Word for you. ||2||

srw srIAiq ly kMmwvhu ] (1083-16, mwrU, mÚ 5)
saraa saree-at lay kammaavahu.
Let your practice be to live the spiritual life.

qrIkiq qrk Koij tolwvhu ] (1083-16, mwrU, mÚ 5)
tareekat tarak khoj tolaavahu.
Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God.

mwrPiq mnu mwrhu Abdwlw imlhu hkIkiq ijqu iPir n mrw ]3] (1083-16, mwrU, mÚ 5)
maarfat man maarahu abdaalaa milhu hakeekat jit fir na maraa. ||3||
Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again. ||3||

kurwxu kqyb idl mwih kmwhI ] (1083-17, mwrU, mÚ 5)
kuraan katayb dil maahi kamaahee.
Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible;

ds Aaurwq rKhu bd rwhI ] (1083-17, mwrU, mÚ 5)
das a-uraat rakhahu bad raahee.
restrain the ten sensory organs from straying into evil.

pMc mrd isdik ly bwDhu KYir sbUrI kbUl prw ]4] (1083-18, mwrU, mÚ 5)
panch marad sidak lay baaDhhu khair sabooree kabool paraa. ||4||
Tie up the five demons of desire with faith, charity and contentment, and you shall be acceptable. ||4||

mkw imhr rojw pY Kwkw ] (1083-18, mwrU, mÚ 5)
makaa mihar rojaa pai khaakaa.
Let compassion be your Mecca, and the dust of the feet of the holy your fast.

iBsqu pIr lPj kmwie AMdwjw ] (1083-19, mwrU, mÚ 5)
bhisat peer lafaj kamaa-ay andaajaa.
Let Paradise be your practice of the Prophet's Word.

hUr nUr musku KudwieAw bMdgI Alh Awlw hujrw ]5] (1083-19, mwrU, mÚ 5)
hoor noor musak khudaa-i-aa bandagee alah aalaa hujraa. ||5||
God is the beauty, the light and the fragrance. Meditation on Allah is the secluded meditation chamber. ||5||



*Page 1084*

scu kmwvY soeI kwjI ] (1084-1, mwrU, mÚ 5)
sach kamaavai so-ee kaajee.
He alone is a Qazi, who practices the Truth.

jo idlu soDY soeI hwjI ] (1084-1, mwrU, mÚ 5)
jo dil soDhai so-ee haajee.
He alone is a Haji, a pilgrim to Mecca, who purifies his heart.

so mulw mlaUn invwrY so drvysu ijsu isPiq Drw ]6] (1084-1, mwrU, mÚ 5)
so mulaa mala-oon nivaarai so darvays jis sifat Dharaa. ||6||
He alone is a Mullah, who banishes evil; he alone is a saintly dervish, who takes the Support of the Lord's Praise. ||6||

sBy vKq sBy kir vylw ] Kwlku Xwid idlY mih maulw ] (1084-2, mwrU, mÚ 5)
sabhay vakhat sabhay kar vaylaa. khaalak yaad dilai meh ma-ulaa.
Always, at every moment, remember God, the Creator within your heart.

qsbI Xwid krhu ds mrdnu suMniq sIlu bMDwin brw ]7] (1084-2, mwrU, mÚ 5)
tasbee yaad karahu das mardan sunat seel banDhaan baraa. ||7||
Let your meditation beads be the subjugation of the ten senses. Let good conduct and self-restraint be your circumcision. ||7||

idl mih jwnhu sB iPlhwlw ] (1084-3, mwrU, mÚ 5)
dil meh jaanhu sabh filhaalaa.
You must know in your heart that everything is temporary.

iKlKwnw ibrwdr hmU jMjwlw ] (1084-3, mwrU, mÚ 5)
khilkhaanaa biraadar hamoo janjaalaa.
Family, household and siblings are all entanglements.

mIr mlk aumry PwnwieAw eyk mukwm Kudwie drw ]8] (1084-4, mwrU, mÚ 5)
meer malak umray faanaa-i-aa ayk mukaam khudaa-ay daraa. ||8||
Kings, rulers and nobles are mortal and transitory; only God's Gate is the permanent place. ||8||

Avil isPiq dUjI swbUrI ] (1084-4, mwrU, mÚ 5)
aval sifat doojee saabooree.
First, is the Lord's Praise; second, contentment;

qIjY hlymI cauQY KYrI ] (1084-5, mwrU, mÚ 5)
teejai halaymee cha-uthai khairee.
third, humility, and fourth, giving to charities.

pMjvY pMjy iekqu mukwmY eyih pMij vKq qyry Aprprw ]9] (1084-5, mwrU, mÚ 5)
punjvai panjay ikat mukaamai ayhi panj vakhat tayray aparparaa. ||9||
Fifth is to hold one's desires in restraint. These are the five most sublime daily prayers. ||9||

sglI jwin krhu maudIPw ] (1084-6, mwrU, mÚ 5)
saglee jaan karahu ma-udeefaa.
Let your daily worship be the knowledge that God is everywhere.

bd Aml Coif krhu hiQ kUjw ] (1084-6, mwrU, mÚ 5)
bad amal chhod karahu hath koojaa.
Let renunciation of evil actions be the water-jug you carry.

Kudwie eyku buiJ dyvhu bWgW burgU brKurdwr Krw ]10] (1084-6, mwrU, mÚ 5)
khudaa-ay ayk bujh dayvhu baaNgaaN burgoo barkhurdaar kharaa. ||10||
Let realization of the One Lord God be your call to prayer; be a good child of God - let this be your trumpet. ||10||

hku hlwlu bKorhu Kwxw ] (1084-7, mwrU, mÚ 5)
hak halaal bakhorahu khaanaa.
Let what is earned righteously be your blessed food.

idl drIAwau Dovhu mYlwxw ] (1084-7, mwrU, mÚ 5)
dil daree-aa-o Dhovahu mailaanaa.
Wash away pollution with the river of your heart.

pIru pCwxY iBsqI soeI AjrweIlu n doj Trw ]11] (1084-7, mwrU, mÚ 5)
peer pachhaanai bhistee so-ee ajraa-eel na doj tharaa. ||11||
One who realizes the Prophet attains heaven. Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death, does not cast him into hell. ||11||

kwieAw ikrdwr Aaurq XkInw ] (1084-8, mwrU, mÚ 5)
kaa-i-aa kirdaar a-urat yakeenaa.
Let good deeds be your body, and faith your bride.

rMg qmwsy mwix hkInw ] (1084-8, mwrU, mÚ 5)
rang tamaasay maan hakeenaa.
Play and enjoy the Lord's love and delight.

nwpwk pwku kir hdUir hdIsw swbq sUriq dsqwr isrw ]12] (1084-9, mwrU, mÚ 5)
naapaak paak kar hadoor hadeesaa saabat soorat dastaar siraa. ||12||
Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. ||12||

muslmwxu mom idil hovY ] (1084-9, mwrU, mÚ 5)
musalmaan mom dil hovai.
To be Muslim is to be kind-hearted,

AMqr kI mlu idl qy DovY ] (1084-10, mwrU, mÚ 5)
antar kee mal dil tay Dhovai.
and wash away pollution from within the heart.

dunIAw rMg n AwvY nyVY ijau kusm pwtu iGau pwku hrw ]13] (1084-10, mwrU, mÚ 5)
dunee-aa rang na aavai nayrhai ji-o kusam paat ghi-o paak haraa. ||13||
He does not even approach worldly pleasures; he is pure, like flowers, silk, ghee and the deer-skin. ||13||

jw kau imhr imhr imhrvwnw ] (1084-11, mwrU, mÚ 5)
jaa ka-o mihar mihar miharvaanaa.
One who is blessed with the mercy and compassion of the Merciful Lord,

soeI mrdu mrdu mrdwnw ] (1084-11, mwrU, mÚ 5)
so-ee marad marad mardaanaa.
is the manliest man among men.

soeI syKu mswieku hwjI so bMdw ijsu njir nrw ]14] (1084-11, mwrU, mÚ 5)
so-ee saykh masaa-ik haajee so bandaa jis najar naraa. ||14||
He alone is a Shaykh, a preacher, a Haji, and he alone is God's slave, who is blessed with God's Grace. ||14||

kudriq kwdr krx krImw ] (1084-12, mwrU, mÚ 5)
kudrat kaadar karan kareemaa.
The Creator Lord has Creative Power; the Merciful Lord has Mercy.

isPiq muhbiq AQwh rhImw ] (1084-12, mwrU, mÚ 5)
sifat muhabat athaah raheemaa.
The Praises and the Love of the Merciful Lord are unfathomable.

hku hukmu scu KudwieAw buiJ nwnk bMid Klws qrw ]15]3]12] (1084-13, mwrU, mÚ 5)
hak hukam sach khudaa-i-aa bujh naanak band khalaas taraa. ||15||3||12||
Realize the True Hukam, the Command of the Lord, O Nanak; you shall be released from bondage, and carried across. ||15||3||12||


Jugraj Ji,

Please elaborate how the above verse is related to the article?




> I don't think you are familiar with concept of bujjar kurehit.
> 
> 1) cutting hair
> *2) eating meat*
> ...




Regarding number two of the above , I would like you to read the following thread so that we can discuss it later.
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/threads/guru-ki-maseet.309/


Tejwant


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## Jugraj Singh (Oct 12, 2004)

Firstly i never said muslims keep unshorn hair.  re-read my post to clarify this.  I said their are a lot of people who give importance to dastaar and kesh.  

The gurbani  part that I quoted explains the significance of turban.  I am not saying that the Guru Sahib was promoting keski in the article but he did clearly identify it with honor and integrity.  My translation is slightly different from Bhai Manmohan Singh's..I hope u picked up on this.

As per the article that was written by Bh. Manmohan Singh it is clear that he also has noticed that the turban is being assoicated with honor and integrity.  



You said

>>>>Does that mean we should disregard what is in SGGS or shall we consult it before going to the historical events?
>>>>

If you re-read my post then it will become clear that I belive Gurbani to be above all else.  WAHO WAHO BANI NIRANKAR HAI.  "Gur bhin ghor andhar"  "Without guru there is total darkness".

However, how  do u refute my points.  You have chosen to ignore them.

*>>>>*
*In other words SARDAARI ( only nobles wore turbans) came before spirituality, Or shall we put it in this way that MIRI had more importance than PIRI.*
>>>>>

This I don't understand.  Turban is being associated with integrity and honor and to a Sikh these are important virtues.  What does Sardari have to do with anything.  Sardari is a system based on land ownership and leasing of one's land to others. 

You are right that mostly nobles wore turbans until Guru Sahib came along.  Don't you see what he did?  

People of the time were opressed.  They had no integrity, honor and they were at a point where they had no will to fight. Guru sahib gave them hope and through his love made them realize that all can be one with God.  Here these people were looked down upon and couldn't even look at the nobles and muslim rulers in the eye when Guru sahib tells them that they can be one with God.  

He gave them inner strength and integrity and them gave them the means to defend that honor.  Kirpa + an = grace + honor = kirpan 

Ofcourse he blessed us with a dastaar but I will not delve any further into why because it's not my place to do so.  I think I've provided enough context to clearly see that Turban in Sikhi is not associated with Sardari but with honor and integrity and ultimately with following Guru hukams.

You do realize that there are historical accounts that mention guru sahib personally tying a keski on Mai Bhago's head.  Did he want to make her a sardar?  This is an illogical and baseless conclusion.  

Do you suggest that all Sikhs (this would include men as well) take off their dastaars because YOU associate them with Sardari?

1)  You don't present any clear connection between SArdari and Keski. 

2)  and because of that you have failed to establish what Miri Piri has to do with anything.

I think that it is a slap in the face for the Sikh community that Sikh women walk around without dastaars.  

Do you know how the psychology of slavery works.  Initially when slaves are captured they fight for their freedom and they remember better days. They have hope and honor.

Eventually they give into their predicament.  They however do dream of freedom.  Their children however are born into slavery and are told stories of freedom but have never experienced it so are not so motivated to pursue it until their current circumstance becomes unbearable.

The women in the Sikh community have been more subdued then even the black slaves.

Why?

1) they lost their dastaars.

2) They forgot their history.  They forgot the sacrifices and strength of Bibi's such as Mai Bhago.

3)  Their condition grew worse and worse every year and YET THEY STILL HAD NO DESIRE TO ESCAPE.  IN 1947 DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY SIKH WOMEN WERE RAPED.  IN 1984 DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY SIKH WOMEN WERE RAPED IN FRONT OF THEIR FATHERS AND BROTHERS.  DID YOU KNOW THAT IN SOME INSTANCES FATHERS WERE FORCED ONTO THEIR DAUGHTERS.  THE SIKH WOMEN STILL DIDN'T WAKE UP.  THEY STILL REFUSED TO ACCEPT THEIR HERITAGE AND POWER THAT WAS THEIR RIGHT AS DAUGHTERS OF GURU GOBIND SINGH AND SISTERS OF THE SAHIBZADAY.

i can not imagine a tyar-bar tyar Singhni ever being raped.  She would fight until every last drop of blood left her body before she ever gave in.  A shastar dhari bibi with dastaar can not be conquered ... only killed.  And even then merely her body.  

Guru sahib clearly states,
"Jab lug Khalsa rahey niara.  Tab lug tej dio mai sara.  Jab eh gahai biparan key reet mai na karoan inkey parteet"

meaning:

"Whilst my Khalsa stays unique i will give them my strength.  When they fall into the ways of the brahmans then I will trust them no longer"

And we wonder why Sikhs have had to face such shamefull times in the recent history.  IT'S BECAUSE GURU SAHIB DOENS'T TRUST US ANYMORE.  

What have we become compared to the Sikhs of the old.  Each life was a legend, a tale of bravery, faith and unconquerable spirit.  Our lives are tales of gossip, fashion and dilution of Sikhi rehit.

may guru sahib do kirpa on all of us. We need it badly.

Guru Rakha.  Dass,

Jugraj Singh

p.s. i provide the info I deem necessary to make my points.  I provided the translation i felt was an improvement on Bhai manmohan Singh's and proved my point and didn't feel the need to include the whole shabad.


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 13, 2004)

Jugraj Singh Ji, 




> Firstly i never said muslims keep unshorn hair. re-read my post to clarify this. I said their are a lot of people who give importance to _*dastaar and kesh*_.


How can importance be given by cutting hair as you very well know that muslims do cut their hair?

Further you said the following:-



> the meaning as i understand it is that:
> 
> _*Maintaining our natural form gives equivalent respect/ or is equilvalent in respect to wearing dastaar on one's head.*_ This is because in the muslim history and infact not just in muslim culture but in cultures all over the world _*hair*_ and dastaar were and still are considered a sign of respect and honor.


Does keeping natural form for a muslim is keeping unshorn hair? .

The verse given in the article has nothing to do with Kesh or Keshki and twice you have based your argument on the same verse to emphasize your point of Keshki as Kakaar. In fact the Verse says something totally different and its meanings have been twisted to justify the article.

Following it what it actually means:-

nwpwk pwku kir hdUir hdIsw swbq sUriq dsqwr isrw ]12] (1084-9, mwrU, mÚ 5)
naapaak paak kar hadoor hadeesaa saabat soorat dastaar siraa. ||12||
Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. ||12||




Guru Sahib is using metaphors to show a muslim how to become a better lover of ALLAH. In this respect Turban is used as a metaphor in the verse. It is nothing to do with the actual wearing of turban or with Keshki.

The bottom line is that the verse from SGGS that is in the article supposedly written by Bhai Manmohan Singh ji has no connection with keshki or Kakaar. The author without reading and understanding the whole verse picked a couple of lines to promote his own agenda.

The rest of your justifications are based on your personal views which has no backing of Gurbani. Next time when you want to prove a point , please quote Gurbani first and then you can give your personal opinions or rehatnaamas. Lets not try to distort Gurbani to propagate what you may honestly believe in.

If you have any solid proof about Keshki as Kakaar, please do not hesitate to enlighten us with it.


Tejwant


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## Jugraj Singh (Oct 13, 2004)

This is what I said,

>>>>This is because in the muslim history and infact not just in muslim culture but in cultures all over the world hair and dastaar were and still are considered a sign of respect and honor.
>>>>

What is so confusing about this?  I said they give it importance and they do.   ARe you actually going to argue the point that there are others in the world besides Sikhs who think that dastaar and kesh are important.  Many hindu sects shave off their heads but at one time in their history it was an insult to have your hair cut off.  It was considered worse then death.  Besides muslims acknowledge the bible as a holy book and within the bible is the story of Samson.  If you aren't familiar with it go look it up.  I hope this particular issue has been cleared for you.

You said,

>>>
Does keeping natural form for a muslim is keeping unshorn hair? .
>>>

The natural form is the same for all humans beings.  It is with kesh intact on the body.  Guru sahib is telling them to keep their natural form regardless of what the kuran might have to say.  he is giving them a direct hukam.

You also said,

>>>The verse given in the article has nothing to do with Kesh or Keshki and twice you have based your argument on the same verse to emphasize your point of Keshki as Kakaar. In fact the Verse says something totally different and its meanings have been twisted to justify the article.
>>>>

You are right in that I have given the pankti twice and I've failed to make my point clear.  Due to this debate I was  forced to do research on the pankti.  I have come to a few conclusions: 

Before I understood the pankti as associating dastaar with honor and integrity and thereby was using it to refute your point about dastaar being associated with SARDARI.

Now however as I understand it more I must say that the pankti does infact say to wear a dastaar.

This is my reasoning.  The word Soorat is different from Surat.  

According to gurbani viakaran the word Surat means consciousness and it is always seen with an aunkad.  On the other hand the word Soorat has a dulaunkad.  Nowhere in the rest of the Guru Granth Sahib jee is the meaning understood to be counsciouness where the word has dulaunkad.    Therefore the word can not mean consciousness but instead means form.  Gurbani is consistent.    

Guru sahib in his updesh to muslims is clearly giving them 3 hukams in that pankti.

1) Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition.

2) Guru sahib then says that ," Sabat Soorat"  meaning "natural form" as I established earlier.  

3)  Dastaar Sira.  Guru sahib is clearly giving 3 hukams.  

The last point is established by Gurbani viakran (grammar) and I was not aware of it before today. 

Although culturally muslims give importance to the turban, as i mentioned earlier, it is not mandatory according to Islam.  It is a cultural thing.  

Guru sahib is clearly telling them to maintain SAbat Soorat and also a dastaar.  Meaning that he is giving them hukam of dastaar.

I hope this clears any confusion.

I am learning a lot.

However this only proves that Guru Sahib gave hukam of dastaar and not that keski is an actual kakkar.

To prove that keski is a kakkar  I refer you back to Bh. Manmohan Singh's article and ask you to refute any points that he has made and prove him wrong in his assessment.
Having dealt with the issue of the gurbani pankti.

>>>
The bottom line is that the verse from SGGS that is in the article supposedly written by Bhai Manmohan Singh ji has no connection with keshki or Kakaar. The author without reading and understanding the whole verse picked a couple of lines to promote his own agenda.
>>>

Well i hope that the new information on the pankti clears up any confusion.

What agenda?  Equality for men and women?  Keeping our unique lifestyle?  Yeah sounds  like something the RSS would promote, definitely a hidden agenda.  I mean asking women to follow guru's hukams ... the nerve of some people.

>>>>
If you have any solid proof about Keshki as Kakaar, please do not hesitate to enlighten us with it.
>>>>

you have still the refute any of the points made by Bhai ManMohan Singh.  Besides just because it is someone's opinion doesn't mean it's not right.

A lot of Sikhi rehit can not be explicitly seen in the Guru Granth Sahib.  it is my firm belief that it's their but we are not at the level to see it. 

Let me ask you this?  Do you do jap sahib and chaupai sahib paath?  It doesn't say anywhere in the guru granth sahib to do so... infact the guru granth sahib doesn't even contain dasam pita's bani.

If keski is not a kakkar then is it okay for Sikh men to walk around witout covering their heads.  ARe we merely following culture by wearing turbans.  Get real.  The  pankti "sabat soorat dastar sira" proves clearly that guru sahib considered the dastaar a must.

you have been stuck on a few points and have completely ignored the rest of the article by Bhai ManMohan Singh.  Why is this?  I would like ur opinion on the rest of it ... it will force me to do more research.


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## Jugraj Singh (Oct 14, 2004)

I just wanted to add a few things.

Applying your logic can you prove that kesh are kakkars?  Bhai Manmohan Singhs article make a very strong case for Keski can you provide a similar article that proves kesh to be a kakkar.  

You seem like the kind of person who questions things before accepting them.  What was your basis for accepting kesh as a kakkar?  just because  people belived it you started beliving it too?  Did you do independent research?  Did you do ardaas in front of guru sahib to lead u to the truth?

looking forward to further discussion.

I would also like to apologize for my tone during so far during this discussion.  I was a bit angry with your comments about Jatha and well certain negative sentiments leaked into my writing.

Daas,

Jugraj Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 15, 2004)

*Thats where Dasham Granth helps*

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

At last of Dasham Granth,Tenth master clearly state that

Five ks Are
Kes
Kachchh
Karrha
Karad(Kirpan)
Kangha

And three wrong thing are Harama forbidda

Huqqa,Hazamat and Halal.

This also repeated by one of his huqamnamah to sangat of Kabul,

Kes are to be kept.

Regarding Halal,it is termed as Abhkhya(language of infidals or Mallechha as per Hindus) Ka(of) Kutha(Killed after kohna(terrmed as per Punjabi(Refer Dr Sahib Singh Ji) is to give pain)) Mass(Meat).

Keski is notting as such Kakar,From word of Kes Kes(Hair) Ki(of) ,some of ouor friends have made wrong interpetation.Das respect there views but sorry to difffer.

Regarding French issue,The Governtment has told to not let thy relgious symbol be visible.Kes if not covered by turban are visible and hense there bringing open is against the law.

Either Kes are to be cut or covered by Turban as per culture(so it is a cultural symabol).

Harping by those ,who say Keski or turban is religous symbol has rather spoiled the case of Sikh,Which would have been sorted out once it came in limelight.

It is crazy but true that some of our owm people did type of act and deprived Sikh children thier cultural right of turban.


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## Jugraj Singh (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: Thats where Dasham Granth helps*

I am not sure you are aware that the dasam granths wasn't really written by Guru Gobind Singh jee.  It contains Guru Sahib's writings ofcourse but wasn't compiled until after Guru sahib joti joyt sama gai.

I am aware that Baba Gurbachan Singh of Taksal claims in his writings that it was but historically most scholars agree that it was compiled after Guru Sahib.  Infact I would recommend that you read the book "Sikhi Kion Nahein faildee" by Sub. Didar Singh.  

Most scholars also agree that many of the compositinos within the dasam granth were added in after the fact and don't consider the compositions Gurbani.  

Prove to me that Guru Sahib wrote about the 5 kakkars in the dasam granth.  YOu can't.  It is a made up story.  Like I said before the dasam granth was not compiled by Guru Gobind Singh jee.  It contains some of his writings but he never officially compiled it.  

Do research and post your findings on the forum and we will discuss the authenticity of some "banis" from the dasam granth.

Looking forward to further discussion.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Dec 17, 2004)

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Das never comments before doing reserach.Have you read Jaffer Nammah.And do you understand.chi shooma Farsi ro me fahmeedeed.Tell Das what he wrote.

Das can say that The code (Maryada)given above is from the same person who wrote Jaffernamaah.

Reason.Both has kadeemi Farsi(old Farsi),Which was of that time.It has arebic vocabulary in aboundance plus free use of Indian words(five Ks) here.

Most valid version of Dasham Granth Ji is bhai Mani Singh Ji Version.Last it was seen by DSGPC at hanuman road.It is simple,we can get the carbon or nuclera dating of that copy yet it is as old as assault of lahore by army of Ranjeet Singh.Ahamadis and hindutva people simlarly raise fingures about Adi Beer of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.(one at Kartarpur (District Jallendher).Even they quiestion about validity of the Bani of First Master.

It is Faith that matters and Guru does prove himself.Adi Guru Granth Sahib Ji were too compiled after the life of First Master. Bhai Mani Singh Ji are held at high esteem by Sikh.In bible acts of apostes too has praise that is after Jesus.But Khalsa ,who is roop(form) of Guru and who attained martyerdom(Bhai Mani Singh Ji),If he could not be trusted then why person like Das will trust prsent days missioanries.

Get das the single verse from official copy of Dasham Granth.If afraid(due to so called Graphical account of Triya Charitars) then send it via PM.Das can prove that non of the verse is against Gurumat.BUT remember bring it as it is.No Translations but as it is in Braj,Punjabi or Farsi and das will give you the correct explaination.Das has faith in Guru and Guru will help as Guru helped the Sikhs in Past.

Akal bless. And sorry if some one is hurt.Das is not offensive towards any of the fellow Sikh but often RSS sponcers people tend to misquote Dasham Granth so that Sikhs hate it ,While for Das,Dasham Granth is the biggest weapon to eliminate Hindutva.


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