# Who Is A Sikh And When Should You Start Calling Yourself "Sikh"?



## carolineislands (Apr 13, 2008)

I know this seems like a really elementary question but it's not as easy to answer as I thought it might be.  Honestly, I am not sure when a person starts calling themselves a Sikh.  When you make the decision to be a Sikh?  When you are completely faithful with morning meditation and follow the 3 pillars?  When you wear dastaar?  Honestly, I wear dastar at home and sometimes when I go out but not often.  The reason I don't is because I don't want people to ask me if I'm a Sikh because I simply don't feel worthy to represent Sikhi.

I know that might sound soppy, but its the truth.  I don't feel worthy of representing Guruji... and that's why I am hesitant to call myself a Sikh.  To me, its kind of like calling yourself an "expert" or a "saint."  When are you an expert?  How much do you have to know?  When are you a saint?  How good do your actions have to be?  How clean does your heart have to be?  When do you call yourself a Sikh?


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## spnadmin (Apr 13, 2008)

Carolineislands ji

Tonight I am splitting my time between doing laundry and moderating and writing my own thoughts too. So I saw your questions. WoW!! On another forum, let's call it Nameless for Now, one very dear and kind member from Delhi, wrote that he was very concerned that I doubt myself the way I seem to do. I had actually described the feeling of not being a "real Sikh". Even though i was speaking tongue in cheek, it was my attempt to describe the struggle we who are converts have feeling authentic. So much knowledge, language, understanding of Sikhism is bound up in centuries of culture that some share -- those born into Sikhism - and others do not have this dependable founcaton-- they are those who convert.

I want to share what he told me without disclosing his identity or the name of the forum. It is a private network anyway. This may help you as it helped me.

_ I firmly know that the Guru takes care of his sikhs. But the only condition is that the sikh is true to his Guru and not that he knocks at other doors as well.

A convert sikh truly has no tradition to teach him or ease of learning. But at the same time there is no accompanying garbage to give up.

Guru Nanak Dev ji in his time traveled far and wide and there were sikhs with diverse cultures. Many unfamiliar with the language. In a local Hyderabad Gurdwara which i visited once there were telgu speaking sikhs who have a different back ground. Similarly there are many other sikhs with different language backgrounds.

The sikhi of Guru Nanak is devoid of rituals. It is difficult to practice as there are hardly any ritualistic things to do. The sikhi is to go within. It is to live as even a householder and be with the Guru within. So people with diverse backgrounds can easily go forward._ 

_ The Guru arranges the satsangat as per needs. The affairs too are resolved both of the outer world and blocks before the inner world._

So I am not going to say more right now but to share your wistful sense of wondering. *Now deep down inside you know you are a Sikh. Of course you do. It just that sometimes it is such a fragile feeling. 
*


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## carolineislands (Apr 13, 2008)

I'm starting to realize how much my first experience with a Sikh affected me.  This woman was is a friend of mine who I love and respect very much.  When I told her I was very interested in Sikhi and had been studying it with the intent of "converting" she shocked me with her response -- she was not at all encouraging about it.  She is from Punjab but has lived in the States for over 30 years and raised her children here.  When I got over the shock of her reaction I asked her to explain her feelings and she said that she didn't really believe in converting because a person's religion is in their cells -- it's part of who they are.  And she went on to describe how her faith is something she was born and raised in and that she chose before her birth and that a person can't just change that.  Then she said that no one religion was better than another and was concerned that I wanted to leave the love of Jesus.

I was like  "Huh?"

I came away from that feeling self conscious and presumptuous about my desire to become a Sikh.  Since then I haven't talked to her about Sikhi and I don't think she is away of how much I have embraced this path in my heart.  I did a lecture with her a few weeks ago and I saw her eye catch on my kara.  She didn't say anything.  

I wondered about that a lot though.  I thought about what she said about choosing our families and our religions before we're born and how we all do that because that's the path that has what we need to learn in this lifetime.  But then I thought, what if what I needed to learn was to seek out the best path instead of just following what was expected of me?  What if what I needed to do in this lifetime was find Guruji?

Funny thing is, she is totally non traditional.  She has short hair and dresses totally American.  I wonder if she thinks about the fact that she has converted nationalities?  LOL

At any rate, I think that experience probably planted a seed in my mind about whether or not I could become an 'authentic' Sikh even though I wasn't born to it.  

Fortunately, I have run into people who have been much more encouraging!  This forum has helped, with all it's pros and cons.  And there are a couple of really nice Sikh families in my town who have been very supportive too. They say they love to see westerners coming to Sikhi because it makes them to take a fresh look at their faith, and also because they think that converts bring wonderful things to a faith community.  They're not at all critical or suspicious of 3HO - they think they've brought new life to Sikhi.  

I think I'm going to gurdwara with them in next weekend.  I don't know why I'm nervous about that.  Should I go up front and pay my respects to SGGS like everybody else or just slip in the back?

LOL  It is truly not like me to be shy!  Have you ever seen the movie, "The Color Purple?"  You know that song the nightclub singer sings when she goes into her father's church?  I sing that song!  And DANCE.  I've been to Vodou ceremonies!  Why am I nervous about going to gurdwara???

anyhow... thank you so much.  That writing was very touching.  And please thank your friend for me too.


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## spnadmin (Apr 13, 2008)

*ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਗੁਣਵੰਤੀ ॥
soohee mehalaa 5 gunavanthee ||
Soohee, Fifth Mehl, Gunvantee ~ The Worthy And Virtuous Bride:


ਜੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੜਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਨਿਵਿ ਨਿਵਿ ਲਾਗਉ ਪਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥
jo dheesai gurasikharraa this niv niv laago paae jeeo ||
When I see a Sikh of the Guru, I humbly bow and fall at his feet.


ਆਖਾ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜੀਅ ਕੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਜਣੁ ਦੇਹਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥
aakhaa birathhaa jeea kee gur sajan dhaehi milaae jeeo ||
I tell to him the pain of my soul, and beg him to unite me with the Guru, my Best Friend.


ਸੋਈ ਦਸਿ ਉਪਦੇਸੜਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਅਨਤ ਨ ਕਾਹੂ ਜਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥
soee dhas oupadhaesarraa maeraa man anath n kaahoo jaae jeeo ||
I ask that he impart to me such an understanding, that my mind will not go out wandering anywhere else.


ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਤੈ ਕੂੰ ਡੇਵਸਾ ਮੈ ਮਾਰਗੁ ਦੇਹੁ ਬਤਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥
eihu man thai koon ddaevasaa mai maarag dhaehu bathaae jeeo ||
I dedicate this mind to you. Please, show me the Path to God.


ਹਉ ਆਇਆ ਦੂਰਹੁ ਚਲਿ ਕੈ ਮੈ ਤਕੀ ਤਉ ਸਰਣਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥
ho aaeiaa dhoorahu chal kai mai thakee tho saranaae jeeo ||
I have come so far, seeking the Protection of Your Sanctuary.


ਮੈ ਆਸਾ ਰਖੀ ਚਿਤਿ ਮਹਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਭੋ ਦੁਖੁ ਗਵਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥
mai aasaa rakhee chith mehi maeraa sabho dhukh gavaae jeeo ||
Within my mind, I place my hopes in You; please, take my pain and suffering away!


ਇਤੁ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਚਲੇ ਭਾਈਅੜੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਹੈ ਸੁ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥
eith maarag chalae bhaaeearrae gur kehai s kaar kamaae jeeo ||
So walk on this Path, O sister soul-brides; do that work which the Guru tells you to do.


ਤਿਆਗੇਂ ਮਨ ਕੀ ਮਤੜੀ ਵਿਸਾਰੇਂ ਦੂਜਾ ਭਾਉ ਜੀਉ ॥
thiaagaen man kee matharree visaaraen dhoojaa bhaao jeeo ||
Abandon the intellectual pursuits of the mind, and forget the love of duality.


ਇਉ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਸਾਵੜਾ ਨਹ ਲਗੈ ਤਤੀ ਵਾਉ ਜੀਉ ॥
eio paavehi har dharasaavarraa neh lagai thathee vaao jeeo ||
In this way, you shall obtain the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan; the hot winds shall not even touch you.


ਹਉ ਆਪਹੁ ਬੋਲਿ ਨ ਜਾਣਦਾ ਮੈ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਭੁ ਹੁਕਮਾਉ ਜੀਉ ॥
ho aapahu bol n jaanadhaa mai kehiaa sabh hukamaao jeeo ||
By myself, I do not even know how to speak; I speak all that the Lord commands.


ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਖਜਾਨਾ ਬਖਸਿਆ ਗੁਰਿ ਨਾਨਕਿ ਕੀਆ ਪਸਾਉ ਜੀਉ ॥
har bhagath khajaanaa bakhasiaa gur naanak keeaa pasaao jeeo ||
I am blessed with the treasure of the Lord's devotional worship; Guru Nanak has been kind and compassionate to me.


ਮੈ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਭੁਖੜੀ ਹਉ ਰਜਾ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਿ ਅਘਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥
mai bahurr n thrisanaa bhukharree ho rajaa thripath aghaae jeeo ||
I shall never again feel hunger or thirst; I am satisfied, satiated and fulfilled.


ਜੋ ਗੁਰ ਦੀਸੈ ਸਿਖੜਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਨਿਵਿ ਨਿਵਿ ਲਾਗਉ ਪਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥
jo gur dheesai sikharraa this niv niv laago paae jeeo ||3||
When I see a Sikh of the Guru, I humbly bow and fall at his feet. ||3||
*
I will send you a pm about going to gurdwara. First time your eyes will be opened. It is going to be very different from what you think.


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## kds1980 (Apr 14, 2008)

Caroline ji

These days plenty of sikhs think that conversions in sikhism or spreading sikhism is banned in sikhism.They just think that one should follow religion in which he/she born.
They forget that ancestors of more than 90% of sikhs were Hindu's and at one point
they converted to sikhism that's why there descendents are sikhs today.

I don't know who spread this Myth or who spreaded this type of misunderstanding in sikhism


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## dalsingh (Apr 14, 2008)

kds1980 said:


> Caroline ji
> 
> These days plenty of sikhs think that conversions in sikhism or spreading sikhism is banned in sikhism.They just think that one should follow religion in which he/she born.
> They forget that ancestors of more than 90% of sikhs were Hindu's and at one point
> ...



Without going into anti-Hindu territory. I think it was Brahminical sources that persuaded naive Sikhs of this. Sikhs were open and actively accepting converts up to the early 1800s. There are plenty of references by early western witnesses in Panjab to this effect. Sikhism was clearly open to Muslims and Hindus and many converted. 

As a person born with a Sikh heritage I would say this to you Caroline. It is true that much Panjabi cultural baggage is linked with Sikhism as practiced by most Sikhs of Panjabi background. In future this should change as the community increasingly diversifies. Be confident and honest to yourself. Believe you me many Sikhs of Panjabi backgrounds are no angels. Call yourself Sikh when you feel it in your heart. Ultimately your judge will be Akal Purakh, not Panjabis! lol


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## carolineislands (Apr 14, 2008)

Thank you all so much!  It really helps to understand a little of the reasons behind my friend's thinking.  She is a wonderful person and is extremely caring and nice to people.  She is a doctor and does lots of pro bono work in Third World countries and things like that.  She really is one of the most wonderful people I know.  That's why I was so confused.  But now I think I have a little better perception about it.  Thank you!


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## Archived_member2 (Apr 14, 2008)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Kds1980 Jee!

Quote "These days plenty of sikhs think that conversions in sikhism or spreading sikhism is banned in sikhism."
The reality is that they do not have anything to convince others, even their own children for Sikhi.

The reverend Gurus spread the wisdom of Naam. People from all religions went through spiritual conversion. Today Baabaas and preachers are working hard for people not to convert spiritually. They want to hang them on a pentangular platform engraved with five symbols.

Quote from Dal Singh Jee "As a person born with a Sikh heritage I would say this to you Caroline. It is true that much Panjabi cultural baggage is linked with Sikhism as practiced by most Sikhs of Panjabi background. In future this should change as the community increasingly diversifies. Be confident and honest to yourself. Believe you me many Sikhs of Panjabi backgrounds are no angels. Call yourself Sikh when you feel it in your heart. Ultimately your judge will be Akal Purakh, not Panjabis! lol"
This is a good remark. 
I feel Sikh preachers are worrying to loose their masks.

**************

A Sikh is one who has received the wisdom of true Naam Simran.


Balbir Singh


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## pk70 (Apr 14, 2008)

Carolineislands ji

As I said earlier in my previous post, your *sincerity* is an asset for your goal. This kind of sincerity towards Guru ji, will keep you on the true path you have chosen. I am a strong believer of this that without* it,* hypocrisy, duality take over the soul. Why do I applaud you? Because very rarely I have found *it *in the believers.


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## Anonymous_Kaur (Apr 15, 2008)

well we all know wat a sikh is..sikh is a learner..as we are always learning new things about sikhi !! right !!to become a guru;s sikh (gursikh) we shud follow the rehit n obey the orders that are provided by da guru granth sahib ji !! there are many tuks inthe gurbannnii which gives the definition of  a truee sikh..there is one "jo satgur ka sikh akahiye..oh tarkke uth har naam thaiyee" srry if i spelleed it rngg !!!


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## Sikh80 (Apr 15, 2008)

Kaur ji,
You are right. However, anyone who is a sikh knows it from one's core of mind. There is hardly a need for seeking a help in the matter.


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## singhbj (Apr 15, 2008)

Anonymous_Kaur said:


> well we all know wat a sikh is..sikh is a learner..as we are always learning new things about sikhi !! right !!to become a guru;s sikh (gursikh) we shud follow the rehit n obey the orders that are provided by da guru granth sahib ji !! there are many tuks inthe gurbannnii which gives the definition of a truee sikh..there is one "jo satgur ka sikh akahiye..oh tarkke uth har naam thaiyee" srry if i spelleed it rngg !!!


 
Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

ਮ: ੪ ॥ 
मः ४ ॥ 
Mehlā 4. 
Fourth Mehl: 

ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ 
गुर सतिगुर का जो सिखु अखाए सु भलके उठि हरि नामु धिआवै ॥ 
Gur saṯgur kā jo sikẖ akẖā&shy;ė so bẖalkė uṯẖ har nām ḏẖi&shy;āvai. 
One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name. 

ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਭਲਕੇ ਪਰਭਾਤੀ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੈ ॥ 
उदमु करे भलके परभाती इसनानु करे अम्रित सरि नावै ॥ 
Uḏam karė bẖalkė parbẖāṯī isnān karė amriṯ sar nāvai. 
Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar. 

ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਦੋਖ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵੈ ॥ 
उपदेसि गुरू हरि हरि जपु जापै सभि किलविख पाप दोख लहि जावै ॥ 
Upḏės gurū har har jap jāpai sabẖ kilvikẖ pāp ḏokẖ leh jāvai. 
Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased. 

ਫਿਰਿ ਚੜੈ ਦਿਵਸੁ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਵੈ ਬਹਦਿਆ ਉਠਦਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ 
फिरि चड़ै दिवसु गुरबाणी गावै बहदिआ उठदिआ हरि नामु धिआवै ॥ 
Fir cẖaṛai ḏivas gurbāṇī gāvai bahḏi&shy;ā uṯẖ&shy;ḏi&shy;ā har nām ḏẖi&shy;āvai. 
Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name. 

ਜੋ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਧਿਆਏ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ ॥ 
जो सासि गिरासि धिआए मेरा हरि हरि सो गुरसिखु गुरू मनि भावै ॥ 
Jo sās girās ḏẖi&shy;ā&shy;ė mėrā har har so gursikẖ gurū man bẖāvai. 
One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind. 


ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਗੁਰੂ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ ॥ 
जिस नो दइआलु होवै मेरा सुआमी तिसु गुरसिख गुरू उपदेसु सुणावै ॥ 
Jis no ḏa&shy;i&shy;āl hovai mėrā su&shy;āmī ṯis gursikẖ gurū upḏės suṇāvai. 
That person, unto whom my Lord and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that GurSikh, the Guru's Teachings are bestowed. 

ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਧੂੜਿ ਮੰਗੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਕੀ ਜੋ ਆਪਿ ਜਪੈ ਅਵਰਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ॥੨॥ 
जनु नानकु धूड़ि मंगै तिसु गुरसिख की जो आपि जपै अवरह नामु जपावै ॥२॥ 
Jan Nānak ḏẖūṛ mangai ṯis gursikẖ kī jo āp japai avrah nām japāvai. ||2|| 
Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that GurSikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. ||2|| 


Source: Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib


Anonymous Kaur ji,
Please be very very careful while writting Gurbani. One should never take this
lightly as there are serious repercussions.

Kindly use the following link to search Gurbani 
SikhiToTheMAX - Enabling Gurmat Knowledge

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh


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## Anonymous_Kaur (Apr 16, 2008)

singhbj said:


> Waheguru ji ka khalsa
> Waheguru ji ki fateh
> 
> ਮ: ੪ ॥
> ...


 


yh..i knw...srryyy..nywaiss....fanx for posting it up !!

i cudnt find it on da net...n forgot half of da wrds !! 

bhul chuk maaf karni !!

waheguru ji ka khalsa...waheguru ji ki fateh !!


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## drkhalsa (Apr 17, 2008)

> At any rate, I think that experience probably planted a seed in my mind about whether or not I could become an 'authentic' Sikh even though I wasn't born to it.



Going by the Sikh History and my lif experiences till now . The people who were not Born as Sikh made a major impact on sikh heritage .Infact most o the great Personality in Sikhism were not Born sikh but Converted Sikh!


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## muneet (Apr 19, 2008)

Hi every body
It was nice to know that people still yearn after "true sikhi". I for myself have struggled along a wavered path but never doubted the Guru's love for me and his forgiveness for all my misdemeanours. I feel He knows our frailties and we are as fickle as the flesh we are made in. "Ant lai chhadayee"( in the end He will save me) is what I believe in after each day of "Nigurapan"! I feel for a sikh to be a Ni-Guraa is the worst state - the state varies in degrees.. but redemption is still a possibility. "If you walk towards Him one step He walks toward you  a million steps.".. is what Gurbani says and I believe it totally.


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## ekmusafir_ajnabi (Apr 19, 2008)

carolineislands said:


> I know this seems like a really elementary question but it's not as easy to answer as I thought it might be.  Honestly, I am not sure when a person starts calling themselves a Sikh.  When you make the decision to be a Sikh?  When you are completely faithful with morning meditation and follow the 3 pillars?  When you wear dastaar?  Honestly, I wear dastar at home and sometimes when I go out but not often.  The reason I don't is because I don't want people to ask me if I'm a Sikh because I simply don't feel worthy to represent Sikhi.
> 
> I know that might sound soppy, but its the truth.  I don't feel worthy of representing Guruji... and that's why I am hesitant to call myself a Sikh.  To me, its kind of like calling yourself an "expert" or a "saint."  When are you an expert?  How much do you have to know?  When are you a saint?  How good do your actions have to be?  How clean does your heart have to be?  When do you call yourself a Sikh?



There is a fundamental answer to your question that is often overlooked even by the most devout one calling oneself a Sikh. We need to go back to the three basic principles set by Guru Nanak Dev ji.  They are:

1. Naam Japna (Recite Naam)
2. Wand Shakna (Share your bounty with the less fortunate than yourself)
3. Dharam di kirat karni. (Practice righteousness)

One who practices these three fundamental principle is worthy to call himself a sikh.

So ask your self these three questions everyday after a hard days of Dharam di Kirat  and  you will have your answer. The day you miss out on one ,"You are not a Sikh" This is the fundamental step, the rest is progression/a direction to become a Gurmukh. When you start wearing the Kakkars, you begin to represent Guru Gobind Singh ji.  Seek within your own heart  if one, in sincerity has in him/her to represent Guru ji.

Kind Regards

ekmusafir_ajnabi


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## spnadmin (Apr 19, 2008)

drkhalsa said:


> Going by the Sikh History and my lif experiences till now . The people who were not Born as Sikh made a major impact on sikh heritage .Infact most o the great Personality in Sikhism were not Born sikh but Converted Sikh!



Drkhalsa ji,

Many thanks for your comments -- so encouraging -- because it is easy to doubt oneself. 500 years ago or more all Sikhs were converts from something. All we can hope is that each Sikh helps the next Sikh in times of confusion.  We look to people like to you show the way.


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## spnadmin (Apr 19, 2008)

muneet said:


> Hi every body
> It was nice to know that people still yearn after "true sikhi". I for myself have struggled along a wavered path but never doubted the Guru's love for me and his forgiveness for all my misdemeanours. I feel He knows our frailties and we are as fickle as the flesh we are made in. "Ant lai chhadayee"( in the end He will save me) is what I believe in after each day of "Nigurapan"! I feel for a sikh to be a Ni-Guraa is the worst state - the state varies in degrees.. but redemption is still a possibility. "If you walk towards Him one step He walks toward you  a million steps.".. is what Gurbani says and I believe it totally.



muneet ji

Your words are genuine. My feelings are so often like your own. My own belief is that He hears every cry for forgiveness and every cry for His support. 

From Guru Nanak, 

ਮਨ ਏਕੁ ਨ ਚੇਤਸਿ ਮੂੜ ਮਨਾ ॥ 
man eaek n chaethas moorr manaa ||
O foolish people, why don't you remember the One Lord?
 

 ਹਰਿ ਬਿਸਰਤ ਤੇਰੇ ਗੁਣ ਗਲਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
har bisarath thaerae gun galiaa ||1|| rehaao ||
Forgetting the Lord, your virtues shall wither away. ||1||Pause||
 

 ਨਾ ਹਉ ਜਤੀ ਸਤੀ ਨਹੀ ਪੜਿਆ ਮੂਰਖ ਮੁਗਧਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਭਇਆ ॥ 
naa ho jathee sathee nehee parriaa moorakh mugadhhaa janam bhaeiaa ||
I am not a celibate, nor am I truthful, nor a scholar; I was born foolish and ignorant.


 ਪ੍ਰਣਵਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕੀ ਸਰਣਾ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਤੂੰ ਨਾਹੀ ਵੀਸਰਿਆ ॥੨॥੨੯॥ 
pranavath naanak thinh kee saranaa jinh thoon naahee veesariaa ||2||29||
Prays Nanak, I seek the Sanctuary of those who do not forget You, Lord. ||2||29||


From Guru Teg Bahadur


ਅਟਲ ਭਇਓ ਧ੍ਰੂਅ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਸਿਮਰਨਿ ਅਰੁ ਨਿਰਭੈ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ 
attal bhaeiou dhhrooa jaa kai simaran ar nirabhai padh paaeiaa ||
Meditating on Him in remembrance, Dhroo became immortal, and obtained the state of fearlessness.

 ਦੁਖ ਹਰਤਾ ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਕੋ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤੈ ਕਾਹੇ ਬਿਸਰਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ 
dhukh harathaa eih bidhh ko suaamee thai kaahae bisaraaeiaa ||1||
The Lord and Master removes suffering in this way - why have you forgotten Him? ||1||
 

 ਜਬ ਹੀ ਸਰਨਿ ਗਹੀ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਨਿਧਿ ਗਜ ਗਰਾਹ ਤੇ ਛੂਟਾ ॥ 
jab hee saran gehee kirapaa nidhh gaj garaah thae shhoottaa ||
As soon as the elephant took to the protective Sanctuary of the Lord, the ocean of mercy, he escaped from the crocodile.


Reassurance is everywhere in Guruji. Always the message is to remember Him.


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## pk70 (Apr 19, 2008)

Quote From aad0002
_

The sikhi of Guru Nanak is devoid of rituals. It is difficult to practice as there are hardly any ritualistic things to do. The sikhi is to go within. It is to live as even a householder and be with the Guru within. So people with diverse backgrounds can easily go forward._ 


_The Guru arranges the satsangat as per needs. The affairs too are resolved both of the outer world and blocks before the inner world._



aad0002


_ I cannot hold myself from calling above comments a factual introduction to Nanak Panth well known as Sikhism. It starts within. What is within, one needs to analyze. Guru ji pointed at “panj Bhoot( Five primal negative forces also known as Ego, Anger, Lust, greed and deep attachment.) Once, presence of these five is recognized, a battle needs to be started. It will be very furious battle only for those who are sincere but for the hypocrites, business remains usual. Rituals lose importance because then only Guru bachan turns into a weapon to have a victory over them. No giving up if “ falls “occur, because, one has the weapon, an asset(Sincerity) and unconditional love for the Creator that keep elevating the soul. I am still battling, am I happier than before?you bet, I live a feeling of being totally armed to win. Will HE bless me ever, I don’t know, but isn’t it enough for me that HE makes me feel HE is with me! _





  Quote Carolinislands“ I don't want people to ask me if I'm a Sikh because I simply don't feel worthy to represent Sikhi.
*Aad0002 Ji, here is Caroline expressing feeling of a responsibility for not only herself but also for the panth of Guru Nanak. She doent want  any one even say this if she fails to represent Sikhs” are Sikhs like this? I bow before that kind of behavior*

  Dalkhalsa

  Going by the Sikh History and my lif experiences till now . The people who were not Born as Sikh made a major impact on sikh heritage .Infact most o the great Personality in Sikhism were not Born sikh but Converted Sikh!
*Dalkhalsa Ji*
*Very true, because who convert into a new faith, they are more seriously devoted. First thing they think is to worthy of the faith, many  of them just go deep down to it, and some  others who just  get  Sikhi like a buy one get one free, they lack that kind of sincerity, you know how free thing is treated!*

  Maneet

_If you walk towards Him one step He walks toward you a million steps.".. is what Gurbani says and I believe it totally._

*Absolutely true,  who has doubts about it, should try it and experience this fact[/FONT]*


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## spnadmin (Apr 19, 2008)

pk70 ji

Needless to say, I have great respect for every word you have stated here. Expecially this, when you said, _No giving up if “ falls “occur, because, one has the weapon, an asset(Sincerity) and unconditional love for the Creator that keep elevating the soul.


_My admiration for what you are saying comes from the honesty and the humility behind your words. 

One little thing, and please so not take offense. I am not sure I am the one who said

_ The sikhi of Guru Nanak is devoid of rituals. It is difficult to practice as there are hardly any ritualistic things to do. The sikhi is to go within. It is to live as even a householder and be with the Guru within. So people with diverse backgrounds can easily go forward._ 


_The Guru arranges the satsangat as per needs. The affairs too are resolved both of the outer world and blocks before the inner world._ 

I wish that I had thought of that. Thank you for thinking that it was me. Will try to figure who did.


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 20, 2008)

_



I know this seems like a really elementary question but it's not as easy to answer as I thought it might be. Honestly, I am not sure when a person starts calling themselves a Sikh. When you make the decision to be a Sikh? When you are completely faithful with morning meditation and follow the 3 pillars? When you wear dastaar? Honestly, I wear dastar at home and sometimes when I go out but not often. The reason I don't is because I don't want people to ask me if I'm a Sikh because I simply don't feel worthy to represent Sikhi.

Click to expand...

_


> _I know that might sound soppy, but its the truth. I don't feel worthy of representing Guruji... and that's why I am hesitant to call myself a Sikh. To me, its kind of like calling yourself an "expert" or a "saint." When are you an expert? How much do you have to know? When are you a saint? How good do your actions have to be? How clean does your heart have to be? When do you call yourself a Sikh?_


Maybe you're unsure whether to call yourself a Sikh because you're not there yet. Everything in your post is about what other people think. Basically you will know in your heart when you have decided to commit yourself to Guru. Anyone who bows their head before Guru, Guruji accepts that person. Realistically there are a lot of people in the world. And you're not going to be accepted by some of them for one reason or another. The question is _do you accept yourself? are you secure in yourself?_ and go from there.

I have to ask this question, but _why are you wearing a dastaar? _

Because in the next paragraph you talk about being an expert or a saint. I know we've had some interesting conversations and you've basically called me self-righteous. (And that's fine but I mention it in this context because you're talking about feeling unworthy, being a representative, being an authority, being a saint.) And none of that has to do with Sikhism. Those are misperceptions. Panji, there are some Jathas of Sikhs that follow babas and sants. But I'm of the opinion if anyone says he's a saint he isn't and the holy people are cleaning the bathrooms not on stage doing katha. If you took amrit, for example, you would be taking it with old people, young people and maybe a few kids. Would you look at the kid and say, "Wow there's a saint I'm unworthy?" I don't know why people have the opinion that amrit means you become something unreal. It's like entering the first grade. _But it is deeksha. _And if you want to enter into a Guru-chela relationship, you have to have deeksha. You don't convert to Sikh religion, you _accept_ the Sikh Guru. And there are different levels of that acceptance, but basically it starts with deeksha which in Sikhism is amrit or khandi-ki-pahul. Accepting a Guru means you practice bending your will. In the measure you surrender, you will progress. You can be a Sikh just by believing and accepting Guru. But if you want the Guru-disciple relationship, you need initiation which is an energy transmission. It's not just something you get putting on kakkars. But you can deepen your practice and start by wearing some kakkars, dastaar, and saying nitnam, singing kirtan, and try to make a practice of getting up for amrit vela. Include as much as you want. Make your plate very rich with wonderful things. It's all about attunement and praise.

As for your friend the doctor, you mention that she doesn't keep kes. Well what's that tell you? It tells you she's not practicing her own faith. So what does she care whether you are practicing her faith? She's probably a wonderful person. But she's not a religious Sikh. So don't be disappointed if you're interested in Sikh religion and she probably is not.

Now you're wearing a dastaar. That's not bad. But the first thought is "why?" _Do you know why?_ I mean someone that interested in Sikh religion to tie dastaar but afraid to go up to Guruji's palki in Gurdwara and matatek to Guru seems a bit strange. So I'm asking do you _tie a joora_? Because the whole point of wearing a dastaar is to protect the kes and joora. So it would be silly just to wear dastaar like you would wear a hat or for fashion. And generally speaking, if you understand the importance of tying dastaar, then always wear it, don't stop wearing it or wear it only to Gurdwara for a decoration. 

So I'm inviting you to jump in with both feet and not give a care what other people think. But do it right, for the right reasons. Make a commitment... to Guru. It's all about the Guru. A lot of people and myself included are not much impressed with self-styled saints. I've seen way too many scandals. I'm not interested in yoga master this or dedhari guru that. I've learned my lesson. At one point in my life it took me years just to laugh again because I was so crushed because of bad things that happened and what I knew about spiritual betrayal. I was so demoralized I actually wanted to die. I'm kind of surprised to still be alive, I really thought I would just sicken and die. It took me years to recover from that. I really learned something about yamas and niyamas.

Sikh religion doesn't believe in making converts because it isn't a missionary religion. People will naturally evolve in their own time based on their karam. There's no concern about whether someone is "saved." So there's no reason at all to be shocked if someone thinks it's unnecessary to convert. She's right! You don't have to. But that's not the key question. The important thing is do you _want_ to? And if the desire is there, then YOU explore that. It's your journey. It's your life. But she is right. Jesus is a kind of Guru too. But there must be a reason you're drawn to the Sikh Satguru. 

I really only started following this path with intensity for the last few years. But I was involved with Sikh religion my whole life. I was exposed to a lot of different practices, 3HO, Shabd Surat Yoga, Kundalini and Kriya yoga from childhood basically. Growing up I was very strict about keeping my kes and never let anyone touch my hair with scizzors. I never plucked or shaved my arms or legs. Even in High School gym class I got so many stares from the make-up girls but I always loved my hairs. So Sikhism isn't something new to me. I was trying to be a practicing Sikh when I was in High School, but my karam was such that I drifted into all kinds of other teachings. And now I've been all around the block practicing bramacharya in Hindu ashram, Christian monastery, practiced all kinds of tapas and different sadhanas attended lectures by Tibetan Buddhists, etc. And came full circle back to Sikhism. 

So I really do believe theres a karmic thing about why you're born in a certain religion or around people of a certain religion. My parents were Christian but I was reading my aunt's Bhagavad-Gita and Peace Lagoon, (a terrible English translation of the Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that I don't think 3HO even sells anymore.) I remember telling my aunt when I was a child, "I'm a Sikh." And keeping my hairs and then all those decades I studied everything else only to one day come back to Sikhi. It's kind of weird if you think about it.

Your hair has a yogic purpose. Dastaar has a yogic purpose. If you don't understand the purpose then you should find out. If your drawn to wearing dastaar, wonderful. But if you miss out on the purpose, it won't do you much good. A lot of people born in Sikhi don't even know very much about Sikh religion. But I invite you to dive in deep and investigate more and more. Give up on worrying about who's holy or not. Basically my theory is the Earth is closer to the hell realms and we have a lot more messed up people then good ones. You just do your best. Just keep tying your dastaar, saying your paath and singing your praise. It'll all work out. And don't forget to go into that Gurdwara and bow your head right down before your Guru. Don't even look to the left or to the right. I would recommend you start wearing a kara, if you aren't already. Try to get a sarbloh one. Sarbloh has a powerful shakti. It's strongly electro-magnetic.

I want to add one last thing. My great grandmother was an occultist. Now, it's important to know, just because someone has powers doesn't make them holy or good. My great grandmother was a very powerful person. And the way my mother and aunts talked about her, she was someone you wouldn't want to know. When she died, no one wanted to stay in her house and it burned down. And there's a picture they have of her where her eyes look like Charles Manson. So, again just to emphasize about the saint thing, don't be too impressed with these occult and yoga people. There are dimensions and djinns and spirits and weird stuff and you can have experiences, but none of that makes you holy. The lower astral is a lot closer than the devas are. And the lower astrals always lie. 

~Bhul chak maaf


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