# Sikhism And Bias



## Scarlet Pimpernel (Sep 9, 2011)

*Guru Nanak was impartial about the existing faiths of his day explaining what was right and wrong in the individual practices. Some followed him like his two friends but they did not renounce their faiths. Today we are not so impartial we try to point out what we don’t like about other faiths, like turning the other cheek,implying christians are too pacifist but we have forgotten that many Christians fought and faced death bravely,two shining examples being Joan of Arc and Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar and even Richard the Lion heart was very brave although misguided.S**ome American Sikhs harbour resentment at muslims for having made the turban a target and European Sikhs for the burkha laws which may lead to more legislation but the majority of muslims don't wear either. Some just don't like other faiths because the have more followers or power and that is idiotic! Guru Nanak said there were no Hindu and no Muslim,today we can also then say there is no Sikh or Christian in other words mankind being one, has only one faith ,simply the one who loves, finds, We must have love in mind for God or everything is lost but rare is that real lover.It is like when we enter a house we greet all those who are already there with respect and then it is the House of Love. *


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## Harry Haller (Sep 9, 2011)

yes, veerji, but love for who? god? our family? everyone? or first and foremost should it be ourselves?


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## Ishna (Sep 9, 2011)

You might say love for the Creative Force because it is within everyone anyway... you love you wife for the person she is and you love the Creative Force that moves her at her essence... you love you dogs in the same way... a stunning landscape or piece of classical music... so beautiful and also has the Creative Force at it's essence or else it wouldn't even exist?

Just thinking out loud (again).


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## Harry Haller (Sep 9, 2011)

Bhenji, 

As fond as I am of mutual backslapping, trying to be true to what I am, rather than what I should be, is, I feel, the best way so that my outsides mirror my insides, which is what every sikh desires, I think that is the way to contentment, not enlightenment, just contentment, 

On that note, while I accept that the creator is in every living thing, trying to connect with the creator in every living thing surely detracts from the personality and character of music, or the painting, or the person. Creator has no wants or needs, as Sinnerji once said, creator does not even have a personality, surely in attempting to love the creator instead of the creation, we are missing something in the beauty of the creation.


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## Lee (Sep 9, 2011)

harry haller said:


> Bhenji,
> 
> As fond as I am of mutual backslapping, trying to be true to what I am, rather than what I should be, is, I feel, the best way so that my outsides mirror my insides, which is what every sikh desires, I think that is the way to contentment, not enlightenment, just contentment,
> 
> On that note, while I accept that the creator is in every living thing, trying to connect with the creator in every living thing surely detracts from the personality and character of music, or the painting, or the person. Creator has no wants or needs, as Sinnerji once said, creator does not even have a personality, surely in attempting to love the creator instead of the creation, we are missing something in the beauty of the creation.


 

Indeed Harry ji.

Although I think if God is all then part of .loving God must be loving God in everything.  To love God you must love the creation.


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## Ishna (Sep 9, 2011)

I think Gurbani talks more about contentment than enlightenment...  I'm not sure.

Though, if you know your insides could be better, why not work to improve them?

I don't think there needs to be a focus on 'only the creator' or 'only the creation'.  Each is nothing without the other.  I think it enhances the personality, the character of music, or the painting to know that underneath that unique manifestation of creation is the swirling blood of the ever-moving creative force.

I think it increases acceptance of others and adds another element to life.

But that's just me and I'm pretty confused!


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## Lee (Sep 9, 2011)

Ishna said:


> I think Gurbani talks more about contentment than enlightenment... I'm not sure.
> 
> Though, if you know your insides could be better, why not work to improve them?
> 
> ...


 

Ishna ji you confussed?  Naaa I think not.

Carrying on with the art anology.  When you go buy your self a pice of art, you will pay more and have more interest if the dealer can show you the provonence of the piece.

So yes I agree with you, the more fully you embrace the whole the better off you are bound to be.


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## OSingh (Sep 9, 2011)

"Guru Nanak was impartial about the existing faiths of his day explaining what was right and wrong in the individual practices. *S**ome followed him like his two friends but they did not renounce their faiths*."

Please provide evidence that bhai Mardana was a Muslim and *stayed* a Muslim. *Provide evidence to back up your claims*. 

If Bhai Mardana ji was a Muslim before meeting Guru Nanak Dev ji or not. Once he came into cantact with Jagat Guru, Dhan sri Guru Nanak Dev ji, he became a Sikh of Guru ji. Bhai Mardana ji stayed beside Guru Nanak Dev ji all of his life and was his keertania (singer of Gurbani). How lucky bhai sahib bhai Mardana ji was. It was written in Dargah that all his life, bhai sahib would enjoy the nazara of Sachkhand on this earth. 

Point is that bhai Mardana accepted Guru Nanak Dev ji as his prophet, saviour, pir, murshid, sadhu, sant........

From that day onwards, bhai sahib sang kirtan of *only* Gurbani. He kept Rehat (discipline) of Sikhi that Guru Nanak Dev ji instructed him. He renounced his prior faith. He did not do sri Jap ji sahib at amritvela and then go and do namaz prayers of Quran. He did nitnem bani's of that time. He did paath of 'Mahalla 1' (Guru Nanak Dev).

You cannot have your feet in two boats at once. You cannot have Guru Nanak Dev ji as your Guru, Muhammed Sahib as your prophet,  sri Ram Chander as the avtar you worship, at the same time. The only people that subscribe to such concepts are those that do not want to follow the Rehit of each religion. So they make up false stories and convince themselves that they are right. They label those that follow Rehit as extremists, fundamentalists and whatnot.

Bhai Sahib Bhai Mardana ji did kamai of Gurbani and followed Rehit according to bachans of Guru Nanak Dev ji. He was a pooran Gursikh and personally one of my favourite Gursikhs of all times. 

Bhai Sahib Bhai Gurdas ji's pavittar bani say it best:

ਇਕ ਬਾਬਾ ਅਕਾਲ ਰੂਪੁ ਦੂਜਾ ਰਬਾਬੀ ਮਰਦਾਨਾ। ik Baba Akaal Roop, dooja rababi Mardana
One Guru Nanak who is the roop of Akal Purakh on this earth, alongside him is Rababi (musician) Mardana.

If we want to become Sikhs of Guru Nanak Dev ji then we must  follow bhai Mardana ji's example and surrender our mind (mann), body(tan) and wealth (dhan) to them:

ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਸਭੁ ਸਉਪਿ ਗੁਰ ਕਉ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਮੰਨਿਐ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ tan man dhan sabh saump Gur kau hukam maniai paeeai
Surrender body, mind, wealth, and everything to the Guru; obey the Order of His Will, and you will find Him

*RARE* are those Sikhs that follow bachans of Gurbani *and* follow Rehit Maryada. I seek the dust of such Sikhs.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


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## Harry Haller (Sep 9, 2011)

Lee said:


> Indeed Harry ji.
> 
> Although I think if God is all then part of .loving God must be loving God in everything.  To love God you must love the creation.



Leeji, allow me to sum up the rationale and feeling behind my thoughts, my wife, who is not a sikh, refused to let me kill a spider the other day, arguing that the little spider behind him, was probably his child, or mate, and she would not allow the killing. She took into account the feelings and circumstances of  not only the big spider, but also the little spider too. Whereas some might say, don't kill the spider, it has god in it, to my mind, not killing the spider regardless of who created it seems more, uhmm correct and humanist. 

Do people that dont kill spiders because they see the creator trying ingratiate themselves with the creator? Instead of mimicking creators ways, should we be finding out that our own ways are in tune with creator and creation for the sake of truth, rather than compliance?


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## Lee (Sep 9, 2011)

harry haller said:


> Leeji, allow me to sum up the rationale and feeling behind my thoughts, my wife, who is not a sikh, refused to let me kill a spider the other day, arguing that the little spider behind him, was probably his child, or mate, and she would not allow the killing. She took into account the feelings and circumstances of not only the big spider, but also the little spider too. Whereas some might say, don't kill the spider, it has god in it, to my mind, not killing the spider regardless of who created it seems more, uhmm correct and humanist.
> 
> Do people that dont kill spiders because they see the creator trying ingratiate themselves with the creator? Instead of mimicking creators ways, should we be finding out that our own ways are in tune with creator and creation for the sake of truth, rather than compliance?


 

That is a large question Harry Ji.

Perosnaly I do not belive it possible to mimic the creators ways, for in order to do so one must know absolutely the ways of the creator.  God is all, as I often say there is not one iota of the creation that has not a part of God within.

How does one get to know the ways of a tree, a river a cloud or indeed a spider?

As to the whys of not killing spiders, i don't think it possible to ingratiate oneself with God either.  The best we can do is lead the kind of life that we imagine God wants us to and hope that some grace is shown us.


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Sep 9, 2011)

Thanks for starting the ball off everyone and Harry Veer Ji The thread is about bias and only you could bring spiders into it.lol


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## Harry Haller (Sep 9, 2011)

Given the chance I could bring a whole lot more into it but I do not think I would be very popular


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Sep 9, 2011)

O Veer Ji I understand what you mean about following his Divine Guru but that does not mean he renounced is old faith unless you can prove he did so in writing, we were hardly a faith at that point and Guru Ji's intention was to make all of humanity one and to make us all better people and I'm sure he did not want us to be biased about our own belief system.


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## Harry Haller (Sep 9, 2011)

Lee said:


> That is a large question Harry Ji.
> 
> Perosnaly I do not belive it possible to mimic the creators ways, for in order to do so one must know absolutely the ways of the creator.  God is all, as I often say there is not one iota of the creation that has not a part of God within.
> 
> ...



Absolutely agree, what worries me/scares me is that by focusing on the creator within all creatures/trees etc, we are digressing away from the miracle of creation, 

I like the 80's band Talk Talk, but it is not a given that I will like all tracks done by the band just because I like them, in fact, my most pleasurable experiences regarding the band has been finding a track a I really liked, and then discovering afterwards that it was done by the same band, the track, the tree, the spider has to stand up on its own beauty, the fact that creator created it is just a bonus, things are not beautiful just because they are created by creator, they are beautiful regardless, hope I am making some sense here, and the creator is beautiful for making them beautiful, I do not wish to be one of those people that look at something and think, well thats not really beautiful, but as creator created it, I suppose I must......., I think the ability to see beauty in everything is creator given, and creator should be thanked for that ability


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## Lee (Sep 9, 2011)

harry haller said:


> Absolutely agree, what worries me/scares me is that by focusing on the creator within all creatures/trees etc, we are digressing away from the miracle of creation,
> 
> I like the 80's band Talk Talk, but it is not a given that I will like all tracks done by the band just because I like them, in fact, my most pleasurable experiences regarding the band has been finding a track a I really liked, and then discovering afterwards that it was done by the same band, the track, the tree, the spider has to stand up on its own beauty, the fact that creator created it is just a bonus, things are not beautiful just because they are created by creator, they are beautiful regardless, hope I am making some sense here, and the creator is beautiful for making them beautiful, I do not wish to be one of those people that look at something and think, well thats not really beautiful, but as creator created it, I suppose I must......., I think the ability to see beauty in everything is creator given, and creator should be thanked for that ability


 
That makes sense to me Harry Ji,  beauty though as they say being in the eye of the beholder is wholey subjective huh?

I think we have room for both don't you?  I look at the world and try to see God everywhere, spiders though,well I am an honest to goodness aracnophobe so i cannot see any beauty there.

That is to say that they might very well be baeutifull, i'll never see it though coz I'll never look that close.

We are an odd species us humans, full of odd ideas, some of which we'll agree with amongst each other amd some, well not so much.  That is fine though, we are all free to live as we will.


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Sep 9, 2011)

Lee Ji don't encourage Harry Ji and he is biased against spiders so I guess it is on topic (Harry Ji the truth is never very popular), Sikhs have bias for there own religion, I guess that is natural, but within our faith we are biased ,the baptised maybe biased against those who aren't , the Jatt may be historically biased and parents are racially biased if they prefer their children married Punjabi's and the educated is biased because he seeks an educated partner and I'm biased because I like my own answers ,more.


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