# Am I A Sikh, Or A Heretic?



## Harry Haller (Apr 9, 2012)

Gurfatehji

I always thought the path to Sikhi would be quite straightforward, read the bani, understand the bani, live the bani, its not rocket science or brain surgery. 

However, like all things, it just is not as simple as that. From reading other forums, web pages about Sikhism, I find myself finding what I feel are errors, ranging from absolutely huge whoppers to minor deviations. 

In my view, one has to believe in something, to nail ones colours to the mast, so I decided to try and find out more about Baldev Singh, a writer at Sikhspectrum.com whose writings I found riveting , but was most upset to find that he died a few years ago. In desperation, I googled Sikh heretics, and came across a host of people that are seen as heretics in Sikhism. The heresy involves standing against reincarnation, karma, ghosts, ghouls, miracles, enlightenment through word sounds rather than word meanings, continued Vedic influence, validity of Dasam Granth etc. The more I read, the more I was convinced I had finally found a branch of Sikhism I agreed with. At the very least it was consistent, rational, logical and within the laws of nature and thus Creation. 

All I ever wanted to be was a Sikh, now I find I am in fact a heretic, just for once in my life could I not walk with the majority for a change!


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Apr 9, 2012)

*Re: Am I a Sikh, or a heretic*

Musketeer you have grown even more nutty in my absence ,you don't  need a branch of Sikhism.You are the Tree.


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## Harry Haller (Apr 9, 2012)

*Re: Am I a Sikh, or a heretic*

Spji

Many thanks for your post, I can tell your saving the really good material for an auspicious occasion. 

Having made a few more searches into Sikh heretics, it appears this forum also appears on heresy friendly sites, 

_*These Heretic Groups which are Trying to Break People from Dasam Patshah Bani, Khalsa Rehit and Dharma, And All Things Beautiful in The Palace of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, with Their Aims at Attacking GuruGranth Sahib Ji, are Trying to Use Emotional Blackmail by the Names They Use:

"Khalsa Fauj
Gursikh Singh
Sikh Philosophy Network
One Panth
Guru Panths Channel
Sikh Lehar
Singh Sabha
Guru Granth Sahib Academy*_

Clearly I came to the right place!


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## Annie (Apr 9, 2012)

*Re: Am I a Sikh, or a heretic*



harry haller said:


> Having made a few more searches into Sikh heretics, it appears this forum also appears on heresy friendly sites,
> 
> _*These Heretic Groups which are Trying to Break People from Dasam Patshah Bani, Khalsa Rehit and Dharma, And All Things Beautiful in The Palace of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, with Their Aims at Attacking GuruGranth Sahib Ji, are Trying to Use Emotional Blackmail by the Names They Use:
> 
> ...



We are heretics??? Oh my. I had no idea. Does this mean I am up to no good and should be ashamed of myelf? Oh well, I like this place anyway. I admit, I secretly like it when people I disagree with call me a heretic. I think it means I'm on the right track.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 9, 2012)

*Re: Am I a Sikh, or a heretic*

Guru Nanak ji was a HERETIC too...He refused to learn the OOrra aeirrah from the Pandit..( He taught the pandit the REAL Alphabet of Life)..He refused to elarn the counting 1-9..addition and subtractions..( He taught the Accountant Tera Tera )..He refused to learn the Alph beh ( He taught the Mullah the alphabet of creation)..
IN Fcat He was Heretic supreme..because He refused to wear the fake janeau ( he described the REAL JANEAU)..He reufsed to beleive the Cow-dung could save ones soul...He refused to beleive a bath in the sacred Ganga washed ones soul..He refused to beleive...refused to beleive..refused to beleive..in SO MUCH and so many..karmas, and joons, and reincarnations, and fake behaviours of Maaalas and dhotees, tikkas and japmalis..teeraths and fasts, karva chauths and holis and diwalis.. and dual languages and dual religions (private and in public..Ghar Ghar jeean boli avar tumaree..a private so called pure langauge at home..and the malecch vulgar language fo the RULER for PUBLIC usage ) he refused such DUALITy..such THUGGH behaviours..

I ma indeed PROUD to be a follower of the Biggest HERETIC the world has ever seen...one who went to Hardwaar and threw water to the WEST..one who went to Mecca and lay down with his feet towards God's "house"....one who went to Kumbh and cooked Deer Meat...one who exposed Sajjan Thuggh..and brought him back to a good life..oh YEAH..I am  a HERETIC too...and my children..my family are heretic too...and we are Happy Heretics....


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## Harry Haller (Apr 9, 2012)

*Re: Am I a Sikh, or a heretic*

<Sigh> this is turning into the film Spartacus!

Look, I am the one moaning about being branded a heretic, this is not an invitation for the rest of you to be heretics too, I was just enjoying the peace and quiet here in heresy land, now suddenly every tom, **** and harry is a bloody heretic lol


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## Harry Haller (Apr 9, 2012)

*Re: Am I a Sikh, or a heretic*

for heretics everywhere


ਹਰਿ ਭਇਓ ਖਾਂਡੁ ਰੇਤੁ ਮਹਿ ਬਿਖਰਿਓ ਹਸਤੀ ਚੁਨਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥
 हरि भइओ खांडु रेतु महि बिखरिओ हसतीं चुनिओ न जाई ॥
 Har bẖa▫i▫o kẖāŉd reṯ mėh bikẖri▫o hasṯīŉ cẖuni▫o na jā▫ī. 
The Lord is like sugar, spilled onto the sand; the elephant cannot pick it up.

ਕਹਿ ਕਮੀਰ ਕੁਲ ਜਾਤਿ ਪਾਂਤਿ ਤਜਿ ਚੀਟੀ ਹੋਇ ਚੁਨਿ ਖਾਈ ॥੨॥੩॥੧੨॥
 कहि कमीर कुल जाति पांति तजि चीटी होइ चुनि खाई ॥२॥३॥१२॥
 Kahi kamīr kul jāṯ pāŉṯ ṯaj cẖītī ho▫e cẖun kẖā▫ī. ||2||3||12|| 
Says Kabeer, give up your ancestry, social status and honor; be like the tiny ant - pick up and eat the sugar. ||2||3||12||


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## Ambarsaria (Apr 9, 2012)

*Re: Am I a Sikh, or a heretic*

Harry Haller veer ji thanks for posting a great citation from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.  We are so blessed to have mine of diamonds given to each of us for free in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.





harry haller said:


> <sigh> this is turning into the film Spartacus!
> 
> Look, I am the one moaning about being branded a heretic, this is not an invitation for the rest of you to be heretics too, I was just enjoying the peace and quiet here in heresy land, now suddenly every tom, **** and harry is a bloody heretic lol


_Harry Haller veer ji on a side note can you perhaps better define what type of heretic you are!_

I can relate myself to kind of words below in blue in part,</sigh>





> *heretic*  1.  a professed believer who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church.
> 
> 2.Roman Catholic Church. a baptized Roman Catholic who willfully and persistently rejects any article of faith.
> 
> ...


Sat Sri Akal.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Apr 9, 2012)

GuRu Nanak Ji thru Gurbanee removed all Kinks of prevailing riligious beliefs  be it Hindu or Islamic and showed a stright Super High Way Path of meeting the LORD ABNAASEE PRABHu.
Can any Heretic  do this.? So GuRu Nanak ji can not be confined within the definition and meanings of being Heretic.
No Sikh can be Heretic so long He understands and lives with the teachings of his GuRu.
Prakash.s.Bagga


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## BhagatSingh (Apr 9, 2012)

SP ji,
I was expecting you to say this: Na koi Sikh, na koi heretic...
icecreammunda

and in a way you did.


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## Harry Haller (Apr 10, 2012)

> Harry Haller veer ji thanks for posting a great citation from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. We are so blessed to have mine of diamonds given to each of us for free in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.



I cannot take credit for this citation, my dear little sis Ishna Bhainji read the post and sent me an email, which I would like to reproduce here, it is her citation not mine

_People of every religion disagree with each other.  There is no uniformity to be found anyway.  Even SCIENTISTS don't often agree about what they think are FACTS!!!  It appears to me that Creator isn't into monotony...  It appears to like variety, colour, difference, flavour, tune... the only monotony is Truth and the Truth is so basic it is hard to conceive... like I think it was Kabir who said something like Naam is grains of sugar mixed with sand; the elephant can't pick them up so be like the ant and savor the nectar.

Found it:
God is like sugar that is scattered in sand,
An elephant can't pick out the sweet grains.
Kabir says, the Guru has given this sound advice:
Become like an ant and savour the nectar. [238]
(Guru Granth Sahib, Slokas, Bhagat Kabir, p. 1377)

While the elephants making websites and yelling their opinions all over the internet and judging people might seem to know it all because they are so confident and loud, it's the quiet, humble, truthful, thoughtful ones who get the juice. And it can't be explained to others, it comes Gur Parsad, but people either get it or they don't... and the ones who do can't explain it to the ones who don't....  And so everyone keeps arguing and going round in circles.  Everyone forgets the concept of acceptance.  We over-analyse and try too hard to understand.  Naam I think is like a piece of glass.  People try to see more into it than what is actually there.  Usually seeing their own reflections!  hahaha... when if fact if they held it up they'd see the whole world.

_


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 10, 2012)

while it may be true that most websites are made by elephants..there are many ants posting too...so its  a level field ???


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## BaljinderS (Apr 11, 2012)

"And so everyone keeps arguing and going round in circles. Everyone forgets the concept of acceptance. We over-analyse and try too hard to understand."
----------------

I find myself doing this and have been told by others that I do this.  The good thing is that I have reliased that I do this and now trying to mend my ways so I can stop :redturban:

Sikhism is about acceptance and love.  This is more powerful if you want someone to understand what you are trying tell them rather than just criticising.


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## gurugranthjifollower (Apr 11, 2012)

HERETIC HOON....!!!
I wonder who is making this accusation.
After a long time, in fact couple of centuries, Sikhs are waking up to the uniqueness of Sikhism.
Sikhs, for the last 200 years, have been made to believe that Sikhism is a branch of Hinduism. Hence they have made incorrect interpretation of gurbani to support the Hindu concepts of Karma and reincarnation. History was created to promote past and future life based upon Karma. They even created previous life of Guru gobind singh ji and made Hemkunt as the pilgrimage for Sikhs. I have heared the popular myth that Guru Gobind singh ji will wait for all sikhs at Hazoor sahib and everyone should visit Hazoor sahib before the age of 60 years. What a load of bull???

In fact I am in peace since I have understood gurbani which tells me that this is the only life we have to get in tune with god to make our stay on earth happy and holy. Not tunes with waheguru means we live in misery, union with god means we are in eternal happy mode, i.e. ANAND.

Sikhs need to remember the bani as " jio ban fal pakai bhuain girai bahur na lagai daar". A riped fruit falls off the branch of the tree, does not go back to the tree. Also " ehi tera ausar ehi teri baar, ghat bheetar tu deh beechar". This life is the only chance you have to remain in tune with god, you should reflect on this in your heart.

Gurbani has been written to make this life pious and happy and not the next life since no one knows whether there is one after this or not.

I am happy to be heretic as I do not believe in Karma, reincarnation or reward of any sort in the next life. All rewards and punishments are here and now. as gubani says " aikar karai so aikar paye" whatever you do you reap the reward or punishment now and here.and "jeha beejai so lunai karma sandra khet" Human life is the field in which we sow seeds everyday and we reap in this life sooner or later. Park on double yellow line you will be fined there and then, not in next life. Hurt other people you will feel bad inside, this is your punishment not in the next life.

so here we are known as heretics.


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## Harry Haller (Apr 11, 2012)

It warms the heart to know I am not alone, however it is interesting to note that heresy has its left and right wings, and it is also interesting to note which way 'traditional' Sikhism is headed.


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## ZaraONE (Apr 11, 2012)

Feeling inspired to share on this notice board. Find your OWN path of realization it is part of 1 but unique in the "experiences." We must all realize this. Our Guru's were ALL unique in their expression of the 1. We too have been gifted with the same abilities. Don't follow what I say even below it is one journey of unlimited potentials .. find YOUR WAY and Guru will Show YOU and open up the right doors for a joyful experience of LIFE an LOVE.



Sometimes when we seek answers they come in another forms and in my case they have been continuously flowing through other backgrounds/cultures (Muslim, Chinese, Scottish, Egyptian, Jewish, Buddhist, Christian and other brothers and sisters.) The answers I tried to seek within my birth culture i.e. Sikhism were too complicated (people not sharing their experiences when clearly Anand Sahib states "share if you know".) As I began to read Gurbani by myself I then realized - "If you think you need a degree or PHD to find what is already within you, then you are on the wrong path."

With that I realized my "connection" to all the others that share our planet was the reason i.e. Guru was nudging find your heart connection with ALL of them or you are not living to aspiring to achieving in alignment with 1, ONE or EK the WHOLE.



Jarnail ji mentioned the alphabet. Guru Nanak wrote a beautiful Poem of the Alphabet on Ang 432. The most important letter to understand for me was the letter S and here is why:



(S) Sassa: He who created the world, is the One Lord and Master of all. That whose consciousness remains committed to His Service - blessed is their birth and their coming into the world. Guru Granth Sahib - 432


Wherever I see S that is the trigger ... Guru is right here. iPhone 4 S - solve the riddle and see if Guru is not connecting and showing HE is (i) in the phone, connecting 4 directions with his S sign!  Gurbani is "alive as energy" and "speaking" through events if we listen and pay attention to the details coming as "instincts/intuition" - the formless energy as thought/feeling vibrations.



Guru Gobind Singh described three forms of formless Being:

Achal moorat - motionless being
Anbhav Parkash - being conscious and living (intuition/consciousness)
Amit-Auj Infinite Energy



(B) - Babba: He set out to play the game, on the chess-board of the four ages. He made all beings and creatures his chessmen, and he himself threw the dice. Guru Granth Sahib Ang - 432


When we are awakened to the realization that it is all a Game then the real fun starts. I had never imagined the world as a massive scrabble game of the Universe all intertwining in ways we could never imagine. In the words of Guru Ji:


Dhaee Bujhaarath Saarathaa Sae Akhee Dditharriaa ||
 			देइ बुझारत सारता से अखी डिठड़िआ ॥
 			The riddles and hints are given, and he sees them with his eyes.
Ang 217


This manifested world is the playful game of the Supreme Lord God; reflecting upon it, we find that it is not different from Him. Guru Granth Sahib - 485

A book came out a few years ago. I totally ignored it until the 3rd person mentioned to me "read it."  When I got the book The Secret I realized Guru Nanak's teachings about the power of Conquering the Mind. Then I noticed the letter S in a red seal on the front cover and through intuition knew it was a "sign" and part of the plan. The Creator is infinitely creative ... Kartar. We are co-creators when we align with the Intelligence that holds our atoms and this Universe together anything is possible. Our Guru's connected to the Source and knew their roles. We must also do the same, find out purpose and then let the path and the WAY be shown. We must allow the details to be handled 1 and take action on the inspirations that we are nudged with. 



Make the love of the Lord your pen, and let your consciousness be the scribe. Then, seek the Guru's instructions, and record these deliberations. Guru Granth Sahib - 16



Simply sharing a book worth reading if anyone is interested. It "came to me" through others but I knew why.


Conquer Your Mind, Conquer The Universe - Guru Nanak
With your tongue, repeat the True Name, and your mind and body shall become pure - Ang 49

Extracted from: Nature of Personal Reality by Seth Jane Roberts

"The  seemingly unconscious portions of yourself draw atoms and molecules  from the air to form your image. Your lips move, your tongue speaks your  name. Does the name belong to the atoms and molecules within your lips  or tongue? The atoms and molecules move constantly, forming into cells,  tissues and organs. How can the name the tongue speaks belong to them?

They  do not read or write, yet they speak complicated syllables that  communicate to other beings such as yourself anything from a simple  feeling to the most complicated information. How do they do this?

The  atoms and molecules of the tongue do not know the syntax of the  language they speak. When you begin a sentence you do not have the  slightest conscious idea, often, of how you will finish it, yet you take  it on faith that the words will make sense, and your meaning will flow  out effortlessly.

All this happens because the inner  portions of your being operate spontaneously, joyfully, freely, all of  this occurs because your inner self believes in you, often even while  you do not believe in it. These unconscious portions of your being  operate amazingly well, frequently despite the greatest misunderstanding  on your part of their nature and function, and in the face of strong  interference from you because of your beliefs.

Each person  experiences a unique reality, different from any other individual’s.  This reality springs outward from the inner landscape of thoughts,  feelings, expectations and beliefs.

The living picture of  the world grows within the mind. The world as it appears to you is like a  three-dimensional painting in which each individual takes a hand. Each  colour, each line that appears within it has first been painted within a  mind, and only then does it materialize without.

In this  case, however, the artists themselves are a portion of the painting, and  appear within it. There is NO effect in the exterior world that does  not spring from an inner source. There is no motion that does not first  occur within the mind. The great creativity of consciousness is your  heritage.

Online link to book just copy and paste into URL - Enjoy and Blessings to ALL!


www.scribd.com/doc/39423504/A-Seth-Book-the-Nature-of-Personal-Reality-by-Jane-Roberts


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## harsimiritkaur (Apr 11, 2012)

Indian Intelligence backed up by RSS and Brahmans dressed like Sikh baba ji sants are behind promoting dasam granth as guru, reincarnation, and forced vegeterianism and Hindu superstitions on blind faith zealous Sikhs.  Most of them support these masands, because they do not know Guru Granth Sahib deeply, they do not know the pure Sikh history which by now is contaminated with intelligence agents altering the science of Guru Granth Sahib.  Most educated Sikhs of Guru Granth Sahib in India live in the major cities.  The pindu farm villagers outnumber the city Sikhs by the millions.  These millions are controlled by the RSS and fake Sikhs and those born into Sikh families that receive large bribes to support the Hinduization of Hinduism among Sikhs to destroy it.  There is a big taboo on women in their version of Sikhism, like women cannot do sewa, cannot read the paath, cannot do the kirtan in the main hall (all 5 takhts), especially.  Those fake leaders are 10 steps ahead of true Sikhs, lying and twisting Gurbani to impose their ways on others.

Because of so many outnumbering true Sikhs, I am already prejudice against Sikhs.  I am not suprised why the Hindus make stupid Sikh jokes about Sikhs.  Because they know so many of us are easily brainwashed and fooled by fake sants.  They watch as some gurdwara committee members steal golak money.

Are we Sikhs really that stupid, or are we all just looking over the other shoulder with the excuse, "God knows, He is watching."  I don't think we had this attitude when the Moguls were torturing our babies tied to their mothers grinding the wheat into flour.  We fought back.

So what are we doing now?  We are letting idiots control Sikhism, exploitation of pakandi business.  Selling paath but not teaching the meanings.

We need to study Guru Granth Sahib and to promote study of Guru Granth Sahib.  Don't wait for the granthi or the Missionary colleges to do it.  The grantis are not learned, and the Gurmat Missionary people are few and overpowered by leaders of the blind millions and politicians dressed in religious Sikh clothes calling themselves jethadaar, takht, etc.


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## gk46 (Apr 11, 2012)

Sorry for jumping in. This is my first comment on this network. So hello namaste sasrikal to everyone,  

Since talks about reincarnation was going on, i was just wondering if any of you have read the research done by Dr. Ian Stevenson on the topic. For a small background, Stevenson was a psychaitrist who was not satisfied with the idea that the human personality was the product of the person's genetic material inherited from his ancestors and the modifying influences of his pre and post natal environement. He thought that some parts of the human personality like early childhood phobias, about uncanny abilities that seem to develop spontaneously, of children convinced that they are the wrong sex, and congenital deformities etc could not be explained by the orthodox theory only and he thought that reincarnation could be a possible explantion for these. So he conducted possibly the largest and only scientific research on reincartion. He studied some 3000 childhood cases that suggested to him the possibility of reincarnation and wrote several books on it.

This is review of his first book by Dr. Robert Almeder, a professor of philosophy at Georgia state University
Reincarnation Evidence: Stevenson's Research      - YouTube


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## param_70 (Apr 11, 2012)

That was just a tester because I am posting a comment for the first time here. So please reciprocate the divine greeting once again

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!
Waheguru Ji KI Fateh!!

My name is Paramjit Singh. 42 years old I am a civil engineer and immigrated to Montreal Quebec Canada in Sep 2009 with a family of two children. I have been a saabat soorat sikh all my life, with His blessings but I am not an Amritdhari yet. About partaking Amrit I did not have any plans till 2003 but now I crave to do so and am trying to make myself worthy of it!!

NOW  COMING TO THE PURPOSE OF MY POSTING. I read a couple postings here esp "Am I a Heretic or a Sikh?" I could easily see the plight of the person who posted it. He is not an exception but the norm!! Today most of the Sikhs feel impelled to project  themselves as modern Sikhs who have a scientific bent of mind and who therefore, do not believe in any kind of ritualistic practices,  neither do the concepts of "karma", "transmigration of soul", "jammas or yammas", "swarg and narak", Brahma', 'Vishnu', 'Mahesh' and many more like these find any place in their religious philosophy (I've scrupulously shunned the phrase 'Spiritual Philosophy' because the word 'Spiritual' meaning ‘of or relating to the Spirit’ will unwittingly and at this stage unnecessarily invoke these very concepts which our 21st century Sikhs are positively averse to. We will be using these terms when the discussion moves forth, but definitely we will not be using them for NOW). For them Sikhism is a Modern religion and therefore these old religious principles must be carefully kept away in order to preserve its 'modern' and 'scientific' look. But with an over-zealous attitude like this QUITE OFTEN THEY THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATHTUB!!

And deep down I feel it is not their fault, really. Because this drama of life that Waheguru has set into motion on this world stage is so subtle that nobody can understand it without his ‘grace’. It does not mean there is no Spiritual teacher to explain it. Rather the opposite, we, the Sikhs, are the heir to the most precious and complete spiritual treatise on Earth in the form of Guru Granth Saheb Ji - our eternal Guru. But the tragedy is this that we are never in the listening mode, not  even when we are in his holy presence in a Gurudwara that we can listen to and understand Guru’s word. Our mind (mann) is ever engrossed in its myriad and unending thought impulses which are bombarding it all the time. The sleep time is no exception! Because what miracles the true state of listening can work,  Guru Nanak Patshah narrate in Japuji Saheb in 4 Pauris Of Suniyai............So let’s pray that  Waheguruji from  His Kindness grace us with such a state where Guru's teachings are understood in their true tenor and meaning by us. 

I too did not have this understanding of Guru's word until 2003, when Waheguru acting out of His ever compassionate nature kind of 'conspired' to send me to Satsangat where all my spiritual and metaphysical cobwebs were removed summarily. To begin with Guru Granth Sahebji define Satsangat in two ways:

1. 'Satsangat kaisi jaaniye. Jitthe eko naam vakhaaniye'

i.e. Satsangat (the Holy congregation as per Sikh spiritual yardstick) is that where the secret of 'Naam' is revealed to the devotees and the spiritual-seekers assembled. There is no other criterion used by Guru Saheb Ji in defining Satsangat here. Not the shape or color of the turban nor the presence, absence or length of the beard on the faces of seekers congregated (No one please, please try to conclude from this that turbans or beards are not essential tenet of Sikhism, nor should anybody conclude that without these there cannot exist a sincere spiritual-seeker. It is only this that at the moment I just want to make you realize how important it is to understand what Naam is as per Gurbani that Guru Saheb has formed it the basis to define Satsangat). 

2. 'Titthay jaaye baho satsangati, jitthe har ka harnaam biloyeeye'

That you need not hesitate a bit to join 'Satsangat' where the blessed devotees are reciting His Naam, in other words,  where the congregation is doing 'Simran'

I was lucky to have met and joined such a Satsangat. What I learnt there I want to share with you. My only qualification to do so is that whatever point I shall make here, in this exalted forum will have the backing of at least one tuk (line) from Gurbani i.e. from the undisputed and eternal Guru of ours: Guru Granth Sahebji. After that it will be up to you to keep it or discard it.

(to be continued...)​


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## ZaraONE (Apr 11, 2012)

Again forewarning take only that which makes sense ignore all else, YOU must find what resonates in your heart as experiences.

Reincarnation by clinical doctor by Acupuncture doctor suggested I read this book:

One Soul - Many Masters Book
We have all lived past lives. All of us will live future ones.
What we do in *this* life will influence our lives to come as we evolve toward immortality.
Dr. Brain Weiss – Clinical Psychologist and Author

http://anitamoorjani.com/
Lady had near death and suffered cancer. She was a hindu lady and her family had strong belief systems in reincarnation. She was given a message to Life Life Fearlessly and complete her mission, and now shares in book and videos on site ..

Anita subsequently chose to return to life  when she understood that “heaven” is a state, and not a place. This  subsequently led to a remarkable and complete recovery of her health of cancer. The body healed when she aligned with LOVE.


A book The Teachings of Michael indicating reincarnation and life lessons we are here to learn came to my house via a complete stranger!...  the story connected to number 222. Full story also connected to Gurbani Shabad 222 God is Cause of All Causes. This was an experience and connected to a wide range of spiritual beliefs full circle back to Guru Granth Sahib shabad my friend sang during Haiti earthquake ... all with a simple number 222 based on Signs - "Some Recognize His Signs and Insignia" - Ang 8
http://www.unitedstarminds.com/2011/04/21/the-222-evidence-trail-learn-to-trust-signs/

http://www.michaelteachings.com/who_is_michael.html

If we do not merge back with the Light that gives us life through unconditional love then perhaps more lessons may have to be learned and hence a return to Earth?  Brian's book was interesting he said ALL is Energy, mind your energy well. Michael books said ALL is energy we must master and use energy wisely otherwise we are not "trained enough" to be let loose in the Universe!!! 

http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html
Jill Bolte Taylor got a research opportunity few brain scientists would  wish for: She had a massive stroke, and watched as her brain functions  -- motion, speech, self-awareness -- shut down one by one. An  astonishing story. Not reincarnation but an experience worth watching about our reality and ENERGY!

Blessings.


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## harsimiritkaur (Apr 11, 2012)

"Kabir manus janam dulamb heh
Hoey nan bare baar
Jyon ban fal paakey
Bhuing gireh
Bahur nan laage ddaar."

Oh Kabir, man's birth is precious and rare
and it does not reincarnate again and again..."

Birth and death are like an illusion.  Things are not as they appear.  

"Nahi janam nahi maran"
"There is no birth nor death."

The punishment of janam and maran are used in GGS from HIndu philosophy to emphasize the need to stay on the right track, not to sin.


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## DavNeil (Apr 12, 2012)

I was driving and had a revelation that GOD/Allah/Bhagvan/Ahur Mazda/Yehova/Vaheguru, if can be defined with duality then knowing one will gets you to know the other. No one knows HIM means HE is Unknown and then we say HE is everything. Mahatma Budh, if I take recent example, went about religious philosophy in a so called scientific way. You know what is around you or inside you which is physical and non physical then what is left of non physical and physical is unknown of is beyond imagination (Tera Par Na Paya). Unknown can always happen and when you have faith in Unknown and you keep knowing him you go closer to HIM which is true Karma or same in different way is existentialism. I don't know how heretic comes in picture because instead of keep solving your problems you took a position and stopped at point saying this is not enough and you crossed over and then found something which has not been said. You are not heretic, no religion in the world be not evolving though mighty Brahmins/Levis in Judaism or Hinduism or other priestly classe from other religion will say you are heretic because they stopped and are tired to know more about HIM, so instead of admitting  they are tired, they say you are foolish and going forward. This is enough and you should also stop with us. At the same don't keep going it is not meant for all. All of us will stop some day but it is up to you to find out when to stop.


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## DavNeil (Apr 12, 2012)

harsimiritkaur said:


> "Kabir manus janam dulamb heh
> Hoey nan bare baar
> Jyon ban fal paakey
> Bhuing gireh
> ...



This is based on the thought that every life is precious and you should take that way. There is no religion in the world which degrades life except when it conflicts with a thought.


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## ZaraONE (Apr 12, 2012)

WaheGuru You Simply Are GR8.  As you inspire us so we speak the "evidence."

Keywords used in your email dear Paramjit Ji

Param = The Best / Supreme Highest
42 = Guru Gobind Singh Ji age
KI = was capitalized below = KI means energy also. One simple "sound vibration" many meanings across many cultures as KA is across many cultures.
Tester (Guru is our testing authority, those that have been tested know)
Ten-or (Ten Guru's)
http://www.searchgurbani.com/guru_granth_sahib/ang/70
Ang 70 = Message for this board

The Universe operates with precision. Why would we discount that the Intelligence is not working through our fingers and consciousness? As he "tunes us, so we observe." Watch with vigilance. Guru's Evidence speaks through each of us. There is no duality only 1. Does not matter what language all belong to the 1 Supreme Creator. Read English phonetically and ONE will show it's (s/he unified) presence. America - AMER-ICA - Adidas - ADI-DAS - Quebec -Que-B-EC (why be one)

WaheGuru's Blessings Upon All Humanity.




param_70 said:


> That was just a tester because I am posting a comment for the first time here. So please reciprocate the divine greeting once again
> 
> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!
> Waheguru Ji KI Fateh!!
> ...


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## Harry Haller (Apr 12, 2012)

> Harry Haller veer ji on a side note can you perhaps better define what type of heretic you are!
> 
> I can relate myself to kind of words below in blue in part,
> Quote:
> ...



Ambarsariaji, 

I do not think any of these descriptions give true justice to the way I feel. Our 'church' lacks leadership and direction, and to be honest, I am not hugely sure what it stands for anymore. I do not reject any article of faith, although the third option seems slightly more appropriate. 

The phrase 'able to choose' could equally apply to those that would try and dilute sikhism by, to quote Gyaniji, flouting their baldyness or drinking. To cut hair or drink is a personal choice and completely between you and God, to encourage others to do so and attempt to validate it is another thing. For the record I do both, and both hinder me to the state I would like to embrace. 

No ji, I am the type of heretic that does not wish to follow blindly the rest of the herd. Maybe it is the objective of every Sikh to find the truth, but as I am unaware of anyone that has actually found the truth, which is unsurprising, as SGGS states that 
(my own interpretation in blue)

ਮੰਨੇ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
The state of the faithful cannot be described.
If one attempts to tell you the way, clearly he is a liar

 ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ॥
 One who tries to describe this shall regret the attempt.
So clearly one who has no regrets attempting this, and gets a nice lifestyle and cars out of the deal, is not doing a great job, or has no knowledge to share


ਕਾਗਦਿ ਕਲਮ ਨ ਲਿਖਣਹਾਰੁ 
 No paper, no pen, no scribe
ਮੰਨੇ ਕਾ ਬਹਿ ਕਰਨਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ 
 can record the state of the faithful.
It is clearly impossible for any person, once enlightened to share what he has


ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ 
 Such is the Name of the Immaculate Lord.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ ਕੋਇ ॥੧੨॥
 ||12|| Only one who has faith comes to know such a state of mind. ||12||
By following Hukam one finds this state

ਮੰਨੈ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਮਨਿ ਬੁਧਿ ॥
 The faithful have intuitive awareness and intelligence.
ਮੰਨੈ ਸਗਲ ਭਵਣ ਕੀ ਸੁਧਿ ॥
. The faithful know about all worlds and realms.
ਮੰਨੈ ਮੁਹਿ ਚੋਟਾ ਨਾ ਖਾਇ 
. The faithful shall never be struck across the face.
ਮੰਨੈ ਜਮ ਕੈ ਸਾਥਿ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
 The faithful do not have to go with the Messenger of Death.
ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ 
One who has found this state is truly enlightened

. Such is the Name of the Immaculate Lord.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ ਕੋਇ ॥੧੩॥
||13|| Only one who has faith comes to know such a state of mind. ||13||
ਮੰਨੈ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਠਾਕ ਨ ਪਾਇ ॥ 
The path of the faithful shall never be blocked.
ਮੰਨੈ ਪਤਿ ਸਿਉ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਜਾਇ ॥
. The faithful shall depart with honor and fame.
ਮੰਨੈ ਮਗੁ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਪੰਥੁ ॥
 The faithful do not follow empty religious rituals.
This is one facet, I believe that truly describes those enlightened, if it feels empty, if it feels ritualistic, if it has no point, it is not worth doing, be it Kesh, path, anything, do it with love, or don't bother


ਮੰਨੈ ਧਰਮ ਸੇਤੀ ਸਨਬੰਧੁ ॥ 
 The faithful are firmly bound to the Dharma.
ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
Such is the Name of the Immaculate Lord.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ ਕੋਇ ॥੧੪॥
 ||14|| Only one who has faith comes to know such a state of mind. ||14||
ਮੰਨੈ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਮੋਖੁ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥
. The faithful find the Door of Liberation.
ਮੰਨੈ ਪਰਵਾਰੈ ਸਾਧਾਰੁ 
The faithful uplift and redeem their family and relations.
They do not do this by preaching, they do it by action, they do not try and convert, they are sewadars to the world

ਮੰਨੈ ਤਰੈ ਤਾਰੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਿਖ 
. The faithful are saved, and carried across with the Sikhs of the Guru.
ਮੰਨੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਵਹਿ ਨ ਭਿਖ ॥
. The faithful, O Nanak, do not wander around begging.
But even by finding enlightenment, one still has to earn a living, use your brain, use your intellect, there is no shame in economic success, use this good fortune to assist, rather than walking round begging and borrowing

ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
. Such is the Name of the Immaculate Lord.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ ਕੋਇ ॥੧੫॥
 ||15|| Only one who has faith comes to know such a state of mind. ||15||
ਪੰਚ ਪਰਵਾਣ ਪੰਚ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ॥
The chosen ones, the self-elect, are accepted and approved.
ਪੰਚੇ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਦਰਗਹਿ ਮਾਨੁ ॥
 The chosen ones are honored in the Court of the Lord.
ਪੰਚੇ ਸੋਹਹਿ ਦਰਿ ਰਾਜਾਨੁ ॥
 The chosen ones look beautiful in the courts of kings.
ਪੰਚਾ ਕਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਏਕੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥ 
The chosen ones meditate single-mindedly on the Guru.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਕਰੈ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
 No matter how much anyone tries to explain and describe them,
ਕਰਤੇ ਕੈ ਕਰਣੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਸੁਮਾਰੁ 
 the actions of the Creator cannot be counted.
So clearly it is up to each and every one of us to find this path, to ask questions, to answer questions, to keep asking, keep learning until all avenues are exhausted, and enlightenment shines like a big shiny thing. 


I therefore have the hugest respect for anyone who puts themself on a pedestal and questions established ways, not in the hope of being lauded, but knowing full well they will be derided, they will have their turbans whacked off, they will be harassed, they are the ants looking for sugar, and they are always the ones that regret trying to describe the truth. 

Moral of the story, listen to those who are facing an avalanche of shoes, and see those in big cars and mansions for what they are


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## chazSingh (Apr 12, 2012)

Satnaam Sat Sangat Ji,

I haven't posted on this forum for a while (i used to post everyday) because i realised just how debating, passing opinions was destroying my focus and ability to Sit and do my simran. you see my friends...gurbani says if we want to 'realise' the truth we need to put effort into finding the truth.

Opinions of 99.9% of the people on the planet are there to cause confusion...and our worst enemy is our mind (computer) which wants to know 'when' 'where' and 'how' but doesnt want to put the effort into finding out itself.

You see, the mind can only determine things based on the onformation it contains from experiences....the Soul however has been true since the beginning, true now, and as nanak says will be true forever. The soul doesnt need to 'work things out' it doesnt need to 'calculate' and 'determine' if something is true or not...it works on *'INTUITION' *'amrit from the source/god' as i like to call it.

we can discuss on these forums all we like...and get big ego's if people agree with us, or get motivated to change someones mind over an opinion if our ego gets upset...
But we can all find the real answers *if we but only try and make the effort*

*The TRUTH about How to find the TRUTH exists in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Yet we spend most of our time on forums when the path is already laid out in simple form...*

*'Still' the abrupt and crazy mind which is acting on experience (good or bad) of our pasts...and start to listen to your intuition.*

we can all hear out intuition, but most of us start to 'think' 'wonder' and start asking questons of 'why' 'i want proof' etc....and then my friends we have lost the intuition. 

simran will unlock all the answers you need...yet we dont spend enough time doing it.
Face your subconscious minds, empty your subconscious and start to hear your intuition.

God bless all.


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## chazSingh (Apr 12, 2012)

harry haller said:


> Ambarsariaji,
> 
> ਮੰਨੈ ਤਰੈ ਤਾਰੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਿਖ
> . The faithful are saved, and carried across with the Sikhs of the Guru.
> ...


 
God bless all.


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## Harry Haller (Apr 12, 2012)

> A person with Big cars and a big mansion can be full of Ego, desire, greed... on the other hand they could be so humble, desireless, and share their earnings with others...
> i suppose its the state of their mind, and how much their spiritual heart shines forth as apposed to what they actually have.



Chazji

just to clarify dear brother, I am talking of those that preach, not in general. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any success provided it is born out of humility and truth. Of course it will take longer, but success and mansions are not an issue for me. Such through arrogance and lies however, certainly are. 

I can think of several Sikh personalities who have all been excommunicated due to heresy, Kala Afghana comes to mind, and I can also think of other personalities who have all the trappings, the house, the black Audi, etc


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## chazSingh (Apr 12, 2012)

harry haller said:


> Chazji
> 
> just to clarify dear brother, I am talking of those that preach, not in general. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any success provided it is born out of humility and truth. Of course it will take longer, but success and mansions are not an issue for me. Such through arrogance and lies however, certainly are.
> 
> I can think of several Sikh personalities who have all been excommunicated due to heresy, Kala Afghana comes to mind, and I can also think of other personalities who have all the trappings, the house, the black Audi, etc


 
Very True.

the problem is if there was a saint sitting in front of us wearing some gold, and also some other cheap metals...many on-lookers will think the saint is false because he wears items of value....

but in the eyes of a true saint...there is no difference in diamonds, gold, steel, plastic....all are just dust.

but people will still ask why is he wearing gold....a godly person will say 'why not'? all are natural substances in gods creation...the value has been created by the mind...by manmucks.

i remember hearing some people at my local gurdwara asking why the gurdwara purchased a mercedes people carrier car...they complained the temple guys were thieves...using up money for the wrong things..

But if they purchased the car based on build quality, confort during travel, reliability, how long the car will last, safety features...then why not a mercedes?

But if they purchased it out of Ego, greed, desire...then those minds are completely corrupt


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## chazSingh (Apr 12, 2012)

Satnaam Sat Sangat Ji,

Please take the time to read this very short E-Book: 
*ANHAD SHABAD - The Celestial sound within*
http://www.esnips.com/displayimage.php?pid=3987071

It beautifully describes the essence of Naam, Anhad Shabad that flows through creation, what Shabad Guru is, and how we can connect to the source - our creator Lord.

It has many gurbani quotes backing up the descriptions.

It is said that the length of our life is determined by a set number of breaths, not years and months...but breaths...

Lets all not waste any more breaths and concentrate with full faith on doing our Simran  

My Guru is always with me, near at hand. Through simran and simran by
remembering Him, I keep Him with me ever.
-SGGS 394

and then maybe the follwing will take place

sc{ sbiw mnu m]ihAa pRiB Aap[ le[ imlaie . 
‐ SGGS 35 
The Shabad of the True one fascinates the mind; 
And then God Himself arranges the meeting. 
‐ SGGS 35

God Bless all


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## Harry Haller (Apr 16, 2012)

Chazji

In the world of hunting, either for more sex, money, power, influence, the biggest game there is, is God. Why do we hunt God, why do we need to find him, Why is a meeting with God so important? The SGGS teaches us that we find God every day, we meet God every day, we have the chance to talk to God everyday, We have the ability to show our love for God, in a very real and physical way every day, when we have done this enough times, over enough days, then we will realise who God is, and that will facilitate our meeting, in my humble opinion. 

Is is through interacting with Creation we embrace Creator, I am not quite sure who you are interacting with through Simran

Regards, 

Harry


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## chazSingh (Apr 16, 2012)

harry haller said:


> Chazji
> 
> In the world of hunting, either for more sex, money, power, influence, the biggest game there is, is God. Why do we hunt God, why do we need to find him, Why is a meeting with God so important?
> 
> ...


 
God bless all


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## Ambarsaria (Apr 16, 2012)

chazSingh ji thanks for your post.  All well stated but I have a comment on one part,





chazSingh said:


> When you meditate on the pineal gland (third eye)  using the power and force in the vibrations of gurbani...you are  stimulating the gland to become active...from my own experiences,_ i can  feel my pineal gland vibrate_ when i meditate on gurbani, and i can see  the parkash of my soul....
> its truly beautiful....


_Veer you have to answer one question versus the fetish you have about the pineal gland, etc.  The question stems from, you have the ability and you state so to see the God/creator in all of creation.  Why do you put any significance to this "pineal gland" thing to experience God/creator within you?  Why you want to treat yourself differently than others who show creator/God in *"Sehaj Subhai"/(all so calmly and naturally)*._

Kirtan and Simran based on the physical attributes of carrying these out can have lot of physiological attributes and manifestations.  Many such being very enjoyable and experiential.  

But we need to recognize the difference between using a given tool like Simran/Kirtan versus the end object which is recognition of God/Creator everywhere and manifesting in all in different ways.  We try to make it more complicated and scientific than it really is.

Sat Sri Akal.  mundahug


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## chazSingh (Apr 16, 2012)

Ambarsaria said:


> chazSingh ji thanks for your post. All well stated but I have a comment on one part,_Veer you have to answer one question versus the fetish you have about the pineal gland, etc. The question stems from, you have the ability and you state so to see the God/creator in all of creation. Why do you put any significance to this "pineal gland" thing to experience God/creator within you? Why you want to treat yourself differently than others who show creator/God in *"Sehaj Subhai"/(all so calmly and naturally)*._
> 
> Kirtan and Simran based on the physical attributes of carrying these out can have lot of physiological attributes and manifestations. Many such being very enjoyable and experiential.
> 
> ...


 
I appologise if when i mention the pineal gland that it comes across as a fetish. I only really came across this a couple of months ago based on experiences that i was having and wanting to know what i was experiencing.

Everytime i experienced something new, something i couldnt understand i would do ardaas everyday asking waheguru ji to explain what was hapening so that i would not dwell and waste time on those experiences but so that i could close that door, and move forward...

the things about the pineal gland, the poisons put into our water and food, the chakras (or seven seas as described in gurbani) is really just information that i have come across in the past few months 

there isnt any fetish...

I agree we don't need to make things difficult scientifically or wanting to know as much information as possible...

This new age is not about information...its about experiencing.
I delved into Simran with almost zero information about spirituality, or what i may experience...all i knew were 2 words which i grew a connection to during childhood and these are 'Satnaam' and 'Waheguru', so i sit and meditate on them everyday. It works for me...and i hope it works for others also.

I have no qualifications on sikhi, i am a sinner, a low life who is just putting the pieces together one by one as i experience things during my Simran and my Seva.

Guru Ji has put me on a path to experience the divine light within, and i hope that i become a better person who can be of more use to the community around me.

God bless all.


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