# Halal Jhataka Debate By Sarna And Calcutta



## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 3, 2006)

Gurfateh 

Last night das has heard that there was a deabate on Halal Jhatka issue between Sarna Ji and Calcutta Ji. 

Das wants more detail about that as he missed it. 

It was perhaps held at india TV. 

Das also wants to put that they wanted that it should be amrked on non veg food from hotels etc.if it is Halal or not.Someone told das that it showed that macdolands serves Halal in India(in UK it was not the same).Das wants to confirm that also. 

Anyway another Manmati thing das has seens that unlike in past during baptism at Sisganj Sahib Delhi,Singh were told to not to eat Halal and jhatka can be taken but at present Singhs are told not to eat meat. 

What went wrong? 

due to Three Banis of Dasam Pitah in Baptism,missioanries who are pro meat have stopped encouragind or even carrying out baptism and all ritualistic veggis have taken over baptism ceromany.More input on that si also needed. 


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## kds1980 (Nov 3, 2006)

*Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta*

is gurudwara sisganj promoting some jatha maryada or panthic maryada?


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## parvinder_s_99 (Nov 3, 2006)

*Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta*

SSA All

This need to be debated. As fas as.., display of "Halal Food"  OR "Jhatka Food" .., in some of the south asian countries like Malyasia , Singapore etc.. , It is mandatory to dispaly this information.

The same is required in all places.

Parvinder


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## Archived_Member_19 (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta*

hehehehe

kee farak painda hai...

the animal is killed anyway...

i think its better to debate..vegetarianism or eating meat...


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta*

Gufateh

It makes the differance.Guru tells to not to eat Halal.And Guru as per Mangal Prakash gimslef ate Jhatka.

Say it is differnt  to sleep with own wife as permitted and to sleep with {censored} not permitted.We can not say sex is sex Ki Farak Paida Hai?Sex Tan ho Gaya.


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## dalsingh (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta*

What's the debate?

The Rehat Maryada clearly says that halal is prohibited and if you will eat meat, it is to be jhatka.


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## Archived_Member_19 (Nov 5, 2006)

*Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta*

i see that guru granth sahib is silent abt eating meat or not eating meat...

and why is halal bad?

why not jhatka?


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## dalsingh (Nov 6, 2006)

*Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta*

i see that guru granth sahib is silent abt eating meat or not eating meat...
-----------------

No it isn't, Guru Nanak wrote a shabad specifically about this


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 6, 2006)

*Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta*

Gurfateh

There are mnay verse onto St Kabeer Ji which are anti to Halal,which our viggyi brthern tend to take as anti to meat.

There is a verse why kill chicken.In that logically St Kabir Has Bani which says that when meets with mud then what is left as Halal.

As per some interpetaions of jews and Islam,blood is said to be life.To kill animal let all life so blood be kept out.So animal is killed by draining the blood out of body.It can be kosher or Halal.

Gurmat talks of God in all,in blood as well in muscles and as well in bones.so no suchn differntiation is accepted.Also we(Sikhs) have differnt interpetations of Old Testment(God's saying to Prophet Abraham(Hazarat Ibrahim ahle Sala) and Prophet Mosses) and Suras of Holy Kuran.

so killing animalo in the way which incerse duality concept or Duja bhav ie two things are differnt(so there are two or duji thing other then God as God is only here) may not be allowed.

Bhai Randeep Singh ji has done a good research on that.And Gyani Jarnail Singh ji also concluded once on this forum that sacrfised animals are not allowed.Das may feel otherwise but respect the feeling s and logic placed by both the great Gursikhs mentioned over here.

Gurbani  support the meat eating but oppose Halal as per Guru Granth Sahib.But the Last verse of Dasham Granth has clearly writtan as Halal is Haram(tabbo) for us.

one of the great Gursikh scholar once told das that it was some Hindu who interoplated anti Halal Things in Sikhs so that let there be not much social contact between Muslims and Sikhs.

That could be thing as per das that Guru himseflf had made such arrangement.As there are more similarty between us and Islam,so if we lack good Sikhs with good knowledge of Gurbani and living in Muslim majority Area.They have more fear to get absorbed in presetn day 'Islam' then say Sikhs living in Hindu Area.

why?

Because Muslim are more missionary.

As it happened in UK may have bad eye on female folk just as part of evenglism.(hindus are rather more bugged with caste).

As Ahamdis are doing they can have more valid reason to hypothicate that Guru were more Muslims.

Das himself find Sikhs 101% as Muslim and as per Holy Kuran but all other 'Muslims' are yet to follow Holy Kuran as good as Sikhs do.so they are at the mmost 90% Muslim.so diferance is only 11%.But difference of us With Hindus is about 55% or some time 35%.


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## GURVINDER (Nov 6, 2006)

*Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta*

Gurbani Says "baba Hor Khana Khushi Khwr Jit Khade Tan Pideeye Man Me Chale Vikar" The Non Veg Is That Maya Which Will Snath Your Hapiness From You And Your Body Will Will Be Diseased


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## GURVINDER (Nov 6, 2006)

*Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta*

Gurmukho Kise Jeev Nu Maran Wala Kade Bhi Sikh Khehlon De Layak Nhi Hai Kyonki "guru Granth Sahib" Wich Jeev Hatiya,halal,jhataka Da Support  Kite Bhi Nhi Kita Gya. Jataka  Hoye Ya Halaal Marna Jeev Nu Hi Penda Hai Hatya Jeev Di Hi Hondi Hai


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## nirmaan_singh (Nov 6, 2006)

*Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta*

In my humble opinion I think every1 knows it is wrong to eat meat, but they try and justify it....


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 6, 2006)

*Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta*

Gurfateh

Then why did in Vachitar Natak Tenth Master himslef said that i killed Bule Bull,Bear,Swamp Deer,Tiger/Lion,Boar?

There are texts wriitan which say that Guru ate also the meat.

Here thing is ,more then eating meat,to oppse veggi cultrue in Gurmat.There are Scholars in Sanatan Sikhs who themselves do not eat meet but oppse doer concept of sin and virtue in Gurmat.

Gurvinder Singh Ji,Do Ask Sant Ranjit Singh of Dhadrian.Is it in hand of man to even breath?We not kill or eat? is done by Akal.By Self God is fish,by self an Angel and by self the fisher man.(Ape Bahu Bidh Rangla ..)So better cary outmore nam abhyas as told by Sant Ji and when you reach his palce then you will understand that at higher Avstha God is in veg as well as animal as well in non living.



ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ਦੂਜਾ ੨ ॥ 
सिरीरागु महला १ घरु दूजा २ ॥ 
sireeraag mehlaa 1 ghar doojaa 2. 
Siree Raag, First Mehl, Second House: 

ਆਪੇ ਰਸੀਆ ਆਪਿ ਰਸੁ ਆਪੇ ਰਾਵਣਹਾਰੁ ॥ 
आपे रसीआ आपि रसु आपे रावणहारु ॥ 
aapay rasee-aa aap ras aapay ravanhaar. 
He Himself is the Enjoyer, and He Himself is the Enjoyment. He Himself is the Ravisher of all. 

ਆਪੇ ਹੋਵੈ ਚੋਲੜਾ ਆਪੇ ਸੇਜ ਭਤਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ 
आपे होवै चोलड़ा आपे सेज भतारु ॥१॥ 
aapay hovai cholrhaa aapay sayj bhataar. ||1|| 
He Himself is the Bride in her dress, He Himself is the Bridegroom on the bed. ||1|| 

ਰੰਗਿ ਰਤਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
रंगि रता मेरा साहिबु रवि रहिआ भरपूरि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ 
rang rataa mayraa saahib rav rahi-aa bharpoor. ||1|| rahaa-o. 
My Lord and Master is imbued with love; He is totally permeating and pervading all. ||1||Pause|| 

ਆਪੇ ਮਾਛੀ ਮਛੁਲੀ ਆਪੇ ਪਾਣੀ ਜਾਲੁ ॥ 
आपे माछी मछुली आपे पाणी जालु ॥ 
aapay maachhee machhulee aapay paanee jaal. 
He Himself is the fisherman and the fish; He Himself is the water and the net. 

ਆਪੇ ਜਾਲ ਮਣਕੜਾ ਆਪੇ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਲਾਲੁ ॥੨॥ 
आपे जाल मणकड़ा आपे अंदरि लालु ॥२॥ 
aapay jaal mankarhaa aapay andar laal. ||2|| 
He Himself is the sinker, and He Himself is the bait. ||2|| 

ਆਪੇ ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਰੰਗੁਲਾ ਸਖੀਏ ਮੇਰਾ ਲਾਲੁ ॥ 
आपे बहु बिधि रंगुला सखीए मेरा लालु ॥ 
aapay baho biDh rangulaa sakhee-ay mayraa laal. 
He Himself loves in so many ways. O sister soul-brides, He is my Beloved. 

ਨਿਤ ਰਵੈ ਸੋਹਾਗਣੀ ਦੇਖੁ ਹਮਾਰਾ ਹਾਲੁ ॥੩॥ 
नित रवै सोहागणी देखु हमारा हालु ॥३॥ 
nit ravai sohaaganee daykh hamaaraa haal. ||3|| 
He continually ravishes and enjoys the happy soul-brides; just look at the plight I am in without Him! ||3|| 

ਪ੍ਰਣਵੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਤੂ ਸਰਵਰੁ ਤੂ ਹੰਸੁ ॥ 
प्रणवै नानकु बेनती तू सरवरु तू हंसु ॥ 
paranvai naanak bayntee too sarvar too hans. 
Prays Nanak, please hear my prayer: You are the pool, and You are the soul-swan. 

ਕਉਲੁ ਤੂ ਹੈ ਕਵੀਆ ਤੂ ਹੈ ਆਪੇ ਵੇਖਿ ਵਿਗਸੁ ॥੪॥੨੫॥ 
कउलु तू है कवीआ तू है आपे वेखि विगसु ॥४॥२५॥ 
ka-ul too hai kavee-aa too hai aapay vaykh vigas. ||4||25|| 
You are the lotus flower of the day and You are the water-lily of the night. You Yourself behold them, and blossom forth in bliss. ||4||25|| 


ang 23.
Confirm it from Sant Ji.When Mardana was unhappy as you are unhappy by das's kiling Animal,Mardana was unhappy and complained to First Master about sin of fisher man.so this Bani was sent unto him(First Master) by Akal.

Read this again and reply.


or Ask Sant Ji.What is Duja Bhav?


ਆਪੇ ਮਾਛੀ ਮਛੁਲੀ ਆਪੇ ਪਾਣੀ ਜਾਲੁ ॥ 
आपे माछी मछुली आपे पाणी जालु ॥ 
aapay maachhee machhulee aapay paanee jaal. 
He Himself is the fisherman and the fish; He Himself is the water and the net.


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## dalsingh (Nov 6, 2006)

*Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta*

I don't agree. Eating meat is completely normal and happened in all societies worldwide from time immemorial. It was only in India that vegetarianism became an issue. That to lately as Hindu's own religious books talk about animal sacrifices etc.

By all means talk about being merciful to animals and possible problems with meat eating and health but don't say meat eating is wrong because most of the world does it.

This is not saying that if everyone does something it is automatically OK, but that it is not a big issue. It is a non-issue. I am not vege, my brother is. We can live with each other fine without having to try and change each other.

Anyway, fools argue over meat eating so I'm going to stop.


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## kds1980 (Nov 6, 2006)

*Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta*



GURVINDER said:


> Gurmukho Kise Jeev Nu Maran Wala Kade Bhi Sikh Khehlon De Layak Nhi Hai Kyonki "guru Granth Sahib" Wich Jeev Hatiya,halal,jhataka Da Support  Kite Bhi Nhi Kita Gya. Jataka  Hoye Ya Halaal Marna Jeev Nu Hi Penda Hai Hatya Jeev Di Hi Hondi Hai



so tell me is farming also wrong according to sikhism.farmers spray pesticides on their crops in which many harmful as well harmless creatures are killed.
it is also jeev hatya


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## kds1980 (Nov 6, 2006)

*Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta*



dalsingh said:


> I don't agree. Eating meat is completely normal and happened in all societies worldwide from time immemorial. It was only in India that vegetarianism became an issue. That to lately as Hindu's own religious books talk about animal sacrifices etc.
> 
> By all means talk about being merciful to animals and possible problems with meat eating and health but don't say meat eating is wrong because most of the world does it.
> 
> ...



i agree with you that vegetarianism became an issue in india especially where the land was fertile.there are few vegetarians in coastal areas because the only food that is available in plenty of quantity is fish.also for from the start of civilisation we have been using animals for our benefits like

1)we tie cows and buffaloes in sheds and force them to produce as much milk as they can.when they are not able to produce milk we throw them on road or kill them but still milk is considered a good vegetarian food.

2)small farmers castrate male calves and then force them to plough their fields or pull load for their entire life .when they become useless they are too thrown on roads.

the above are two examples of using animals for our benefits but no vegetarian say anything against it but when it comes to eating meat all veggeies start shedding tears as it is the only cruelity done on animals.
start shedding tears as it


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## Archived_Member_19 (Nov 9, 2006)

dalsingh

i am not saying that eating meat is bad or not

i am questioning,

if an animal is killed

it feels pain, whether by jhatka or halal, it still dies..

so why make fuss over the method???

this is all pakhand..

if someone wants to eat meat...SGGS doesnot stop him..neither it says donot eat..

do whatever u want to..

but donot put it on SGGS that it PROMOTES Jhatka...


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## Veeru (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta*



dalsingh said:


> I don't agree. Eating meat is completely normal and happened in all societies worldwide from time immemorial.


 
So are five vices. This is where we have think spiritually...


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## kds1980 (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta*



PCJS said:


> So are five vices. This is where we have think spiritually...



humans allways eat what is available in their environment.tell me how could
poor fishermen living in coastal area become vegetarian?


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## kds1980 (Nov 9, 2006)

amarsanghera said:


> dalsingh
> 
> i am not saying that eating meat is bad or not
> 
> ...



SGGS does not stop us from cutting our hair.but still in sikhism it is considered
one of the worst thing for a sikh.


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## Archived_member2 (Nov 9, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

Gurbani Says "maas maas kar moorakh jhagrhay . . ." SGGS page 1289-15
It looks like 'moorakhs' are still residing on earth.


Balbir Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 10, 2006)

Gurfateh

When we cut the link between brain and spine,there is no pain as in Jhataka and das has done it by his own hands.While in case of Halal,blood vessal of thread is slit and animal dies of animea,when all blood is fineshed.Say Animal stops geting oxzen and later may excreates excreata while dying due to suffocation.It takeas about 15 pain full mintues say in case of Lamb.In our case it does not take minutes or two to die and as brain is off the body due to beheading,Animal does not feel pain.


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## Archived_member2 (Nov 10, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear Vijaydeep Singh Jee!

Quote "In our case it does not take minutes or two to die and as brain is off the body due to beheading,Animal does not feel pain."

Are these experiences of yours memorized from many past lives? Those may not be from this life.


Balbir Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 10, 2006)

Gurfateh

Singh Sahib Bhai Balbeer Singh,

Life which is in das is same as in Animal and as in plant.

Waht das was in previous lif eand is going to be in life to come is just the same.all is composed of Akal.

so for for info of yourself.What same das did in form of Singhs many years before and what das will do as Singh after mnay years of destruction of this body same experaince did das writes about Jhataka.

till I remain,you do not and when you(God) is there thenn I no lomnger exists.so doer is Akal in all.


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## Archived_member2 (Nov 10, 2006)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear Vijaydeep Singh Ji!

Quote "What same das did in form of Singhs many years before and what das will do as Singh after mnay years of destruction of this body same experaince did das writes about Jhataka."

Have I understood it correctly? Singh was always a lion also many years back.
You wrote in this life you converted to a Singh.

Quote "Waht das was in previous lif eand is going to be in life to come is just the same.all is composed of Akal."
Please explain. Who feels pain in beings? I have heard preachers saying God is beyond pain and fear.


Balbir Singh


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## dalsingh (Nov 10, 2006)

"dalsingh

i am not saying that eating meat is bad or not

i am questioning,

if an animal is killed

it feels pain, whether by jhatka or halal, it still dies..

so why make fuss over the method???

this is all pakhand..

if someone wants to eat meat...SGGS doesnot stop him..neither it says donot eat..

do whatever u want to..

but donot put it on SGGS that it PROMOTES Jhatka..."

I've always thought it was for two reasons, first the animal is killed less painfully than the jalal method. 

Secondly to differentiate us from Muslims.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 11, 2006)

Gurfateh

There are mnay verse in Guru Granth Sahib Ji,which do oppse Halal(Bhai Randip Singh ji post have good referance to that and what our Vegitarian people try to prove to anti mear are more anti Halal).

Then about Singh Sahib Bhai Balbeer Singh Ji,


Brother,

soul which is in das and outside das also,is eternal and same was in Singhs das mentioned.when that soul wants we go beyong time space and matter.


Vachitar Natak has Guru saying the same thin g that all previous Avtars were his.As he was one with universe so one with past ,present and futrue.Das has understood this but so far is in path of realisng.when it is realsied then das may become Jvat Mukt or salvaged bing alive.

One is to know that suger is sweet and then one tastses is and relises that.Have mercy on das and under your refuge das  may gain this state after which das could be trying for so mnay ages.

Then coming to feel pain in being.Akal is the one who feels all the emotions among us.But Akal is the cause of all.when Akal wants to feel pain.Akal becomes a cause of pain say butcher and Akal feels the pain as say cow.

Akal in self creation or in creation of self does utilise all things,Sarbang Bhukta.Akal may like to feel pain as Akal may like to feel happyness.Creation is mere tool of Akal to realise this intention.May be reson for creation by Akal could be Akal's wish to have feelings via creation.

So butcher is tool of Akal,to realise the wish of having pain vide body of the cow.

Akal Bless.


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## Archived_member7 (Nov 12, 2006)

Sat sriakaalji Saadh Sangat...

              I am sorry to be missing ..had a busy month ....i am glad finally this topic has been taken ...this is important with respect to Dharam be it us Sikhs , or non-sikh hindus ....

        Das has tried to get more info and has stood at slaughter houses watching halal..and seen the agony the animal goes through....

     It is time for a Dharamyudh if we consider the importance...and dharamyudh doesnt just fighting with swords ..but Sangharsh...

     The islamic world has been so insistant with their ways of eating , they imposed halal on us...now its like we don not have choice ...its like either have halal or be vegeterian ..

    Das decided to stop eating mutton and chicken which are slaughtered through halal process and stick to sea food....since das resides in mumbai...and sea food cannot be halal...

     Also going through ancient texts and concepts ..das realised that any dharam of indian origin doesnt accept halal in any case...

    There have been races among hindus like rajputs, and people frm      nepal , gharwal who offer animal sacrIfice as a ritual to their respective Deities ...

   Even in the south ...das has inquired ....now 'THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WHEN OFFERING A 'BALI' OR ANIMAL SACRIFICE WAS THE ANIMAL WAS TO BE DECAPITATED OR BEHEADED WITH A 'JHATKA' or a swift .THE SWORD OR WEAPON OF SLAUGHTER HAD TO BE SHARP ENOUGH..DAS HAS SEEN PICTURES OF SACRIFICE BY NEPALI HINDUS ON DUSHERA ...THE BUFFALO IS BEHEADED WITH A KHUKRI WITH A QUICK 'JHATKA' . If in case the person offering the bali fails to chop at one go ..the bali isnt accepted.

   There are religious texts which do not agree with a halal sacrifice ...and beyond all...they read the Kalma before sacrifice ...   why do we need to accept it ???

das has a ardas to all of you...pls ..pls speak up its time we all ..be it other hindus who r non vegeterian or us ..we sikhs ..take this seriously and say no to HALAL MEAT...i know its going to be a hard time ..it was difficult for me ...but do not eat anything that has halal...and spread this word around.

  Its time we show ..that we exist...we arent just animals to just accept everything so that our 'muslim' bretheren arent pained ( i hope vijaydeep veerji u r reading )

  All of us need to unite...lets plan something strong...well i feel..lets gather all the religious heads of the indian religions and have an appeal issued ...NO HALAL...its not easy but not impossible since a large part is promoting vegeterianism....


   Vijay veerji is doing a fantastic job but here are yor previous posts where i seek explanation....

 These are vijaydeepji's previous posts which confuse me what he means ...

Re: I'm Muslim Pakistani 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gurfateh
Had das not with security agency of India,das would have had a wife,who had Muslim family.As das is aware that once Muslim lady marries outside Islam,she has to leave her faith.
Due to this Sanatan Sikhs tells Sikh to not to marry Muslim lady.But if we see *Sikhism with sprituality then it is a from of Islam only.*
anyway you are welcome to marry a Sikh and maintain Islam.Yuo can contact Baba Nidder Singh Ji of midland,if you need some help.Visit site To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily. and link of local Akharas of To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily..
Akal Sahai and Allah Hafiz.

*AND*

Re: Sikh pupils being served halal meat (Ilford Recorder) 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gurfateh
*Das has seen this non sense habit in many Muslims who try that we eat Halal.*
Das can say that if they give us Halal by falcious mode our faith will still remain but will it be same for them if we give them Jhatka or pork?
They must know that if they want us to respect them thenn they ,must know how to respect others.(Das is not making this as genralyy ofr Muslims but for those who are doing evil).
Thing to to noted is that Ilford in essex is hot bed for Al Mahjouroon ,who along side Pakitani followers are laways up to ,malciously by method of flasehood, there to convert Sikhs,Hindus and Christians alike to thier type of Islam.
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   Now here is the question in one u want to please that female who wants to marry a sikh by saying sikhi is frm islam...i feel ashamed...u have compared this great Panth to the cult of a paedophile.....:}--}: 

if someone tells me the greatness of Muhamad i would say maybe he is great and My Dhan Guru Nanakdevji isnt that much great ..but i know for sure that My Pehle Paadhsaahi did not sleep with an 8 year old....and i m proud of it...

The wife of muhmad..was 8 years of age !!!! ayesha was 8 years when the paedophile was in his 30s and he married her and had a physical relationship with her at that age ...!!!! that SUCKS !!!!

    The other quote u again say things abt muslims ..that they are pleased with making others eat halal.... 

      Vijay veerji should i call it double standard ???? I havea lot of respect for u ...but pls throw this hinduness of having a huge heart which is so pseudo secular off !!!
        I call it hinduness...since the hindus have done the same....they are eager to say Ishwar allah tero naam...Arre bhai..allah da banda tanu kadi dasda si ..ke haan tuhaada ishwar hor sadda allah vi ik hi hai..????:{- 


                                 BHUL CHUK MUAAF KARNI

                               GAJ-VAJ KE FATEH BULAAO
                  WAHEGURUJI KA KHALSA - WAHEGURUJI KI FATEH


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## Archived_member7 (Nov 12, 2006)

Sat sriakaalji Saadh Sangat...

I am sorry to be missing ..had a busy month ....i am glad finally this topic has been taken ...this is important with respect to Dharam be it us Sikhs , or non-sikh hindus ....

Das has tried to get more info and has stood at slaughter houses watching halal..and seen the agony the animal goes through....

It is time for a Dharamyudh if we consider the importance...and dharamyudh doesnt just fighting with swords ..but Sangharsh...

The islamic world has been so insistant with their ways of eating , they imposed halal on us...now its like we don not have choice ...its like either have halal or be vegeterian ..

Das decided to stop eating mutton and chicken which are slaughtered through halal process and stick to sea food....since das resides in mumbai...and sea food cannot be halal...

Also going through ancient texts and concepts ..das realised that any dharam of indian origin doesnt accept halal in any case...

There have been races among hindus like rajputs, and people frm nepal , gharwal who offer animal sacrIfice as a ritual to their respective Deities ...

Even in the south ...das has inquired ....now 'THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WHEN OFFERING A 'BALI' OR ANIMAL SACRIFICE WAS THE ANIMAL WAS TO BE DECAPITATED OR BEHEADED WITH A 'JHATKA' or a swift .THE SWORD OR WEAPON OF SLAUGHTER HAD TO BE SHARP ENOUGH..DAS HAS SEEN PICTURES OF SACRIFICE BY NEPALI HINDUS ON DUSHERA ...THE BUFFALO IS BEHEADED WITH A KHUKRI WITH A QUICK 'JHATKA' . If in case the person offering the bali fails to chop at one go ..the bali isnt accepted.

There are religious texts which do not agree with a halal sacrifice ...and beyond all...they read the Kalma before sacrifice ... why do we need to accept it ???

das has a ardas to all of you...pls ..pls speak up its time we all ..be it other hindus who r non vegeterian or us ..we sikhs ..take this seriously and say no to HALAL MEAT...i know its going to be a hard time ..it was difficult for me ...but do not eat anything that has halal...and spread this word around.

Its time we show ..that we exist...we arent just animals to just accept everything so that our 'muslim' bretheren arent pained ( i hope vijaydeep veerji u r reading )

All of us need to unite...lets plan something strong...well i feel..lets gather all the religious heads of the indian religions and have an appeal issued ...NO HALAL...its not easy but not impossible since a large part is promoting vegeterianism....


Vijay veerji is doing a fantastic job but here are yor previous posts where i seek explanation....

These are vijaydeepji's previous posts which confuse me what he means ...

Re: I'm Muslim Pakistani 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gurfateh
Had das not with security agency of India,das would have had a wife,who had Muslim family.As das is aware that once Muslim lady marries outside Islam,she has to leave her faith.
Due to this Sanatan Sikhs tells Sikh to not to marry Muslim lady.But if we see *Sikhism with sprituality then it is a from of Islam only.*
anyway you are welcome to marry a Sikh and maintain Islam.Yuo can contact Baba Nidder Singh Ji of midland,if you need some help.Visit site To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily. and link of local Akharas of To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily..
Akal Sahai and Allah Hafiz.

*AND*

Re: Sikh pupils being served halal meat (Ilford Recorder) 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gurfateh
*Das has seen this non sense habit in many Muslims who try that we eat Halal.*
Das can say that if they give us Halal by falcious mode our faith will still remain but will it be same for them if we give them Jhatka or pork?
They must know that if they want us to respect them thenn they ,must know how to respect others.(Das is not making this as genralyy ofr Muslims but for those who are doing evil).
Thing to to noted is that Ilford in essex is hot bed for Al Mahjouroon ,who along side Pakitani followers are laways up to ,malciously by method of flasehood, there to convert Sikhs,Hindus and Christians alike to thier type of Islam.
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Now here is the question in one u want to please that female who wants to marry a sikh by saying sikhi is frm islam...i feel ashamed...u have compared this great Panth to the cult of a paedophile.....:}--}: 

if someone tells me the greatness of Muhamad i would say maybe he is great and My Dhan Guru Nanakdevji isnt that much great ..but i know for sure that My Pehle Paadhsaahi did not sleep with an 8 year old....and i m proud of it...

The wife of muhmad..was 8 years of age !!!! ayesha was 8 years when the paedophile was in his 30s and he married her and had a physical relationship with her at that age ...!!!! that SUCKS !!!!

The other quote u again say things abt muslims ..that they are pleased with making others eat halal.... 

Vijay veerji should i call it double standard ???? I havea lot of respect for u ...but pls throw this hinduness of having a huge heart which is so pseudo secular off !!!
I call it hinduness...since the hindus have done the same....they are eager to say Ishwar allah tero naam...Arre bhai..allah da banda tanu kadi dasda si ..ke haan tuhaada ishwar hor sadda allah vi ik hi hai..????:{- 


                                    BHUL CHUK MUAAF KARNI

                                  GAJ-VAJ KE FATEH BULAAO
                     WAHEGURUJI KA KHALSA - WAHEGURUJI KI FATEH


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 12, 2006)

Gurfateh

Islam means surrender to the will of God,so only in Sikhism we do not treat Allah as our servent that Allah can be influnced by our deeds as Servent get influneced by the deeds of Master.Rather our deeds are influnced by will of Allah.

so to be more claerer,if a Muslim has to follow the true Islam,Amrit ceromny of Sikh baptism awaits them.das hopes the doubt is cleared.


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## kds1980 (Nov 12, 2006)

<<Vijay veerji is doing a fantastic job but here are yor previous posts where i seek explanation....

These are vijaydeepji's previous posts which confuse me what he means ...>>

i too don't understand that despite being from rss background why he vijaydeep singh has soft corner for islam,muhammed and quran


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 12, 2006)

Gurfateh

Gurmat tells to be soft for people especialy you have or had haterd ever.Das wants to get out of sin.It may be duja Bhav otherwise.


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## kds1980 (Nov 12, 2006)

vijaydeep ji the worst thing of islam is whenever they are in majority they crush the minority this is well known fact.they always impose their laws on
other religiouns.my 87 year old grandmother told me about her pre partition days that in their village muslims were in majority .they respected sikhs 
but sikhs have to abide by their laws like no cooking of jhatka meat ,the volume of kirtan should not be high etc.so all those who think that islam can become seculer are living in their imaginery world.


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## dalsingh (Nov 12, 2006)

'The Seiks receive proselytes of almost every caste, a point in which they differ most materially from Hindoos. To initiate Mahommedans into their mysteries, they prepare a dish of hogs legs, which the converts are obliged to partake of, but they are as liberal in the use of opium and bhang as their neighbours. They are not prohibited the use of animal food of any kind, excepting beef, which they are rigidly scrupulous in abstaining from. They never shave their heads or beard;'

John Griffith - 1794

In Siques, Tigers or Thieves.

My point is that here are some early Sikhs not only eating meat but also using pork as a test for Muslim converts. From a later description they seem like Nihungs.


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## Archived_Member_19 (Nov 13, 2006)

<<Secondly to differentiate us from Muslims.>>

why??

doesn't our religion say manas ki jaat sab ekhe pechaanbo..

why any difference?

<< SGGS does not talk about cutting hair, but it is greatest sin in Sikhism>>

 is there any particular reason why it was omitted from SGGS ?

if our Gurus REally wanted to warn us abt Sins/adharams they would have warned us about it...like they did about the 5


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## dalsingh (Nov 13, 2006)

"Why differentiate with Muslims"

Having lived in a majority musalman area Sanghera, I have to say that the hippy type philosophy you are pushing is naive at the least. It just makes weak Singhs/Sikhs, who are easily swallowed by other cultures!

Yes we recognise all mankind as one but this doesn't mean we wonder around treating people who bare enmity towards us as non-existant.

Early in Sikh history, it was described as a teesra niara panth, a distinct third path. Look at the writings of Bhai Gurdas, a contemporary of Gurus Arjan and Hargobind Ji, it is full of comments regarding the distinction of the Sikh way over others.

Just because we are distinct it doesn't mean that we cannot show respect and accommodation to others.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 13, 2006)

Gurfateh

In Sikh Rahit by Tenth Master as we are told about five Kes we are told huqaa ,Hazmat and Halal is Haram.

coming to Manas Ki Jaat Sabhe Eke Pahichanbo,here ek refer to Akal and behold that race of all humans is Akal.So we agree that Halal eating Muslim can get salvation and and we respect his Halal eating.But Muslims trying to force us to eat Halal is bad.so many time Muslims frineds of Das tried him to eat Halal often by deceptions.Akal saved das.

One funny thing for KDS,about why das loves Muslims.Das had a Muslim girl friend.so in Urdu we have proverb.

Sari Kudaye Ek Taraf aur Joru Ka Bhai Ek Taraf but here we should say Sari khudaye Ek Taraf Aur Joru ke Bhaye Ek Taraf.

do not take ti seriusly.


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## kds1980 (Nov 14, 2006)

<<Sari Kudaye Ek Taraf aur Joru Ka Bhai Ek Taraf but here we should say Sari khudaye Ek Taraf Aur Joru ke Bhaye Ek Taraf.>>

par woh to aapki joru bhi anhin bani aur aapko chhod kar chali gayi aur aap ab bhi uske bhaiyon ki hifazat kar rahe hain


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## Archived_Member_19 (Nov 14, 2006)

<<Having lived in a majority musalman area Sanghera, I have to say that the hippy type philosophy you are pushing is naive at the least. It just makes weak Singhs/Sikhs, who are easily swallowed by other cultures!>>>


now culture and religion are a seperate thing altogether ,dear friend...

<<Yes we recognise all mankind as one but this doesn't mean we wonder around treating people who bare enmity towards us as non-existant.>>

ofcourse...go ahead..knock out a few teeth if they knocked out yours....soon dentists would be out of business.. ..jus jokin'..

it again is more of a cultural issue

<<<Early in Sikh history, it was described as a teesra niara panth, a distinct third path. Look at the writings of Bhai Gurdas, a contemporary of Gurus Arjan and Hargobind Ji, it is full of comments regarding the distinction of the Sikh way over others.>>

teesara panth ?

yes it was a way.. a path... but ... once again i question the outward religion and inner religion...yes ..its a seperate stream of PRINCIPLES , which is inner matter...and not outer rituals...


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## dalsingh (Nov 14, 2006)

-------------- 
<<Having lived in a majority musalman area Sanghera, I have to say that the hippy type philosophy you are pushing is naive at the least. It just makes weak Singhs/Sikhs, who are easily swallowed by other cultures!>>>


now culture and religion are a seperate thing altogether ,dear friend...

<<Yes we recognise all mankind as one but this doesn't mean we wonder around treating people who bare enmity towards us as non-existant.>>

ofcourse...go ahead..knock out a few teeth if they knocked out yours....soon dentists would be out of business.. ..jus jokin'..

it again is more of a cultural issue
------------------

Again naive talk, cultures, religion whatever. some of both are still out to shaft Sikhs. Go ahead live like a coward, like that was what Dasmesh Pita promoted!! See how quick that will make us slaves!


----------<<<Early in Sikh history, it was described as a teesra niara panth, a distinct third path. Look at the writings of Bhai Gurdas, a contemporary of Gurus Arjan and Hargobind Ji, it is full of comments regarding the distinction of the Sikh way over others.>>

teesara panth ?

yes it was a way.. a path... but ... once again i question the outward religion and inner religion...yes ..its a seperate stream of PRINCIPLES , which is inner matter...and not outer rituals...-------------

Again talk and live like a hippy, see what sort of trouble that will bring our way!

The outer does matter, hence the STRONG emphasis on external symbols or easy identification by our 10th Guru. No Judas's! Can't deny what you are and give back crap to those that bring it to you!


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## Archived_Member_19 (Nov 14, 2006)

peace dude..

if i seem like a hippy to you..i wish you all the luck in your la la world of lions and goats and whatever...

maybe you are too paranoid.... 

chill !!!


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## jasbirkaleka (Jul 19, 2007)

So far the debate has been good but what is needed is more participatoin of research scholars.


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