# Reincarnation



## confusing (Jul 14, 2006)

hello readers,
(i am sikh) when i was told about reincarnation  and how it was involved in sikhism i had to try to adjust to this concept, but as time progressed i realised you dont always HAVE to believe what you are told you can actually question things. So im questioning reincarnation....over the last 6 years i have fought with the idea that reincarnation really exists, to be honest i have come to the conclusion that i dont believe in reincarnation. I believe that those who have led their life the way Gxx wanted and basically avoided the bad stuff in the world will rest with the waheguru ji when they pass away. I feel that only this aspect of sikhism has been majorly been incorporated from Hinduism. In fact I believe that the reincarnation idea may have been added from Hinduism  as if to provide support for their religion? this is only my opinion. if you believe in reincarnation tell me why you believe in it, if you think otherwise i dont mind you telling me so but explain why. i would also like to here other view points about those who dont believe in reincarnation.....


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## kds1980 (Jul 14, 2006)

reincarnation is mentioned several times in gurbani

ਸੁਖੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਪੁਰਬ ਜਨਮ ਕੇ ਕੀਏ ॥ 
सुखु दुखु पुरब जनम के कीए ॥ 
sukh dukh purab janam kay kee-ay. 
Pleasure and pain are the consequences of the actions of past lives. 


ਸੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਜਿਨਿ ਦਾਤੈ ਦੀਏ ॥ 
सो जाणै जिनि दातै दीए ॥ 
so jaanai jin daatai dee-ay. 
The Giver, who blesses us with these - He alone knows. 


ਕਿਸ ਕਉ ਦੋਸੁ ਦੇਹਿ ਤੂ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਸਹੁ ਅਪਣਾ ਕੀਆ ਕਰਾਰਾ ਹੇ ॥੧੪॥ 
किस कउ दोसु देहि तू प्राणी सहु अपणा कीआ करारा हे ॥१४॥ 
kis ka-o dos deh too paraanee saho apnaa kee-aa karaaraa hay. ||14|| 
So who can you blame, O mortal being? The hardships you suffer are from your own actions. ||14||

i do beleive in reincarnation and there is simple reason behind it.1 life is not enough to be with the god.there are so many different kind of destinies.some persons are born like princes while some  are born without anything even sometime without limbs.if we have 1 life then why god is discriminating between us..just an example for you.if a person is born mentally retarted or with very low iq then where these people will go.they don't understand what is right what is wrong for them.will the person autonmatically be with god if yes then what is the purpose of his life and all the people in this world do not have same age.some people die at the age of 1 ,2 10 or 15 years,then again the question is what is the purpose of their life why god has given them such a small life.


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## Anoop (Jul 15, 2006)

Its probably true, i think reincarnation comes about about your karma...the good and bad you have done. Life may be a cycle of births and deaths through different life forms..according to sikhism 8.4 million or something like that? But what i dont understand is, how come in hinduism is says the same about 8.4 million life forms of births and deaths. But anyway, just be yourself and you dont have to keep thinking about god, because everything is god, we just have to be ourselves ..just be yourself, and take the pressure and joy of life at thesame time by being yourself. 

We go through cycles of different life forms, and it is an adventure, we should appreciate the creator, and this life is just....just too great! We should love it, no matter what situation we are in. just let god handle everything, and all we can do is, be ourselves, because that is how our soul will progress, your inner self!

We are here in this life to learn and to progress! Love everything! Dont think to much, dont try to be too much into god...dont try being devoted if you cant handle it, just be yourself, and be thankful for everything! Everything is one! We are all humans, we all have the same organs and everything! Just think about it...life is so interesting, we cry when our loved ones die, but we dont realsie, death can come about anytime. But we dont need to worry, just be at ease and be truthful, and handle what you can only handle! Life is an adventure, do what it says in your heart, be yourself!! 

Do not live for money, or anything, be yourself, and you will find the truth of the divine loving god!


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## max314 (Jul 15, 2006)

kds1980 said:
			
		

> reincarnation is mentioned several times in gurbani
> 
> ਸੁਖੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਪੁਰਬ ਜਨਮ ਕੇ ਕੀਏ ॥
> सुखु दुखु पुरब जनम के कीए ॥
> ...



How exactly does this advocate reincarnation?

This is the author effectively talking to Hindus, saying that - even if you happen to believe in reincarnation as a Hindu - that it doesn't matter.  All that matters is what you do in this life.

This is not saying that reincarnation exists.  In fact, it's emphasising quite the contrary.


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## Anoop (Jul 15, 2006)

exactly, you dont have to look back at your past lfe, just get on with this...same with worrying...stop worrying about life and just get on with it..be yourself!


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## kds1980 (Jul 15, 2006)

max314 said:
			
		

> How exactly does this advocate reincarnation?
> 
> This is the author effectively talking to Hindus, saying that - even if you happen to believe in reincarnation as a Hindu - that it doesn't matter.  All that matters is what you do in this life.
> 
> This is not saying that reincarnation exists.  In fact, it's emphasising quite the contrary.



gurbani can be interpretted in many ways and nobody knows the correct meaning of gurbani.

i read the translation of pro sahib singh of the above lines and according to him the meaning is that we should not blame god for the sufferings in this life
because it is according to our actions of previous lives.and i don't think there is anything wrong in it.


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## kaur-1 (Jul 16, 2006)

confusing said:
			
		

> hello readers,
> (i am sikh) when i was told about reincarnation  and how it was involved in sikhism i had to try to adjust to this concept, but as time progressed i realised you dont always HAVE to believe what you are told you can actually question things. So im questioning reincarnation....over the last 6 years i have fought with the idea that reincarnation really exists, to be honest i have come to the conclusion that i dont believe in reincarnation. I believe that those who have led their life the way Gxx wanted and basically avoided the bad stuff in the world will rest with the waheguru ji when they pass away. I feel that only this aspect of sikhism has been majorly been incorporated from Hinduism. In fact I believe that the reincarnation idea may have been added from Hinduism  as if to provide support for their religion? this is only my opinion. if you believe in reincarnation tell me why you believe in it, if you think otherwise i dont mind you telling me so but explain why. i would also like to here other view points about those who dont believe in reincarnation.....



Veerji, you REALLY need to read this book:

*UNDITTHI DUNIYA (The Mystical Invisible World) 
by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji.*

It will take you awhile to read. My advice is to read the book few pages at a time to TRULY ABSORB whats been wrtten down. I still havent not finished reading.

The other books are by Bhai Rama singh Ji.


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## confusing (Jul 23, 2006)

hey everyone thankyou so much for replying i didnt think i would get a response like this. Anoop you message was especially so uplifting to read because your the first person who has ever given so excited about life! 

thanks everyone...keep posting....


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## Anoop (Jul 23, 2006)

its ok brother,

Most of us forget who we are, we are stuck into the physical!

I am not a hindu  but a sikh, but i am not a proper sikh. I dont really belive in religions, because they come and go, i think religion had its meaning when there was a time for it, and i think the guru jis, and the guru granth sahib ji is all truth, from the divinity of god...

The thing is people treat sikhism as a religion, when in fact we shouldnt be calling it anything but gods divine rule. 

In life, the you reach divinit truth by having pure concious. We are already one with creator, its how we realise it in this life that matters. 

Our soul takes into this life memories and records of your life. Nothing is bad and good in life...everything is perfect! Dont worry if you havent reached your pure concious, as long as you be yourself, just tke the pressure of life, and be yourself, there will be time swhere you get confused and have pressure, but whateva happens, just be urself, because ur soul is one with the truth which we call god! 

I advise you to watch sadhguru jaggi vasudev's show on aastha channel 808 sky digital!

Everyone wil give uplifiting messages, everyone is perfect...no matter screwed u por not, there are all members here who have good threads forums! we are all perfect and unique, we are here to share our love to this human race. We always forget about the animals, how beautiful creation is...all the worlds misery, with dead bodies in terrorist attacks happening, all is life! explore it! May you go through life wisely!

life is a cycle of many different life forms creations, dnt try ur hard to look upon god, dnt ask questions about where god is, just be urself! remember tht, and thnk god in ur heart!

And look upon Guru Nanak Dev Ji, what a philosopher! god realsied, passion for waheguru ji! listen

give love to others, dnt try so hard to, but by lovin urself, u give love to others, so do that, and just tke time in life to wonder how beautiful this life really is, as it is going through the divine plan!


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## kaur-1 (Jul 23, 2006)

Dah!!

"""_I advise you to watch sadhguru jaggi vasudev's show on aastha channel 808 sky digital_!""""
 DAH..!!!!
WHAT???????????????????is that all about!!!.:down: 

*As a Sikh you DO NOT NEED to watch programs by this or that baba or yogi or whatever.!*

YOU SHOULD BE reading books by *GURSIKHS* such Bhai Rama Singh ji, Naranjan Singh Ji, Randhir Singh ji.

As a Sikh you should be reading the banis in Guru Granth Sahib Ji to answer your question. 

Read the translations if you dont understand them and ask on this forum any queries regarding guru's bani.

We have enough "distracted-like lost sheep!!" sikh sangat in the uk for eg, following fake sants and yogi's of other religion. 

To keep the sikh panth strong (and not have another 84!!) a sikh must:

"*aagi-aa bhe-ee akaal kee,
tabai chal-aa-o panth. 
sabh sikhan ko hukam hai, 
guroo maani-o granth. *
*guroo granth jee maani-o, 
pragat guraa kee deh.
jo prabh ko mil-bo ch-hai, 
khoj shabad mil leh."*

From Sikh Ardas. I will sent you the ppt pictorial ardas if you want.

There are summaries and answer-questions section even at the back of Nitmen gutka with translations in english.

Read them!!..


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## Anoop (Jul 24, 2006)

There goes the ego again ^ 

Because your a sikh you must do this..you must do that.....its not what the hell is that all about. Im not saying believe in jaggi vasudev. Hes not what you call a guru, but a saint, just a normal person. He even admits that he dont like people aho say they want to get blessings from people. He realised truth, the light, and thats why he likes to share his things. By saying things like, we are sikhs we should do that we should do that, its all ego-ism, sikhism is ofcourse the ultimate truth divine by god, but its not always about religion, its about pure concious, and love, and truth. Sadhguru Jaggi vasudev has not got a religion, hes just himself, inner self, and he realised the light. Whatever he says is like Sikhism, and i understand that, we should not bbelive in those who think they know everything. Sadhguru Jaggi vasudev, i just like to listen to his views, he dont want people do believe in whatever he says, he just answers peoples questions to share his experience he has had. Has any of us actually been enlightened by the light? Sometimes we try our best, but then again, we dont even reach our goal. It would help if you be yourself in life. 

You think the sikh gurus were talking about their is neither hindu o r muslim just for fun? Sikhism developed because to make it easy for people to follow morals and teachings that was needed at that time! We are not here to show of about sikhism and say look we a re sikhs, we are here to say we have realsied the truth of god!... people dont even follow sikhism the right way, but anyway, there is no wrong and right in life as people are progressing.

I listen to shabads, the loveliest hyms you could ever listen to. I dont do it because i say im a sikh, but because i love god

its hard for some people to actually read everything u know, obviously the truth is in the gutkas, everything in sikhism is truth, it was the actually way of god, realised by the gurus, im just saying it is safe to watch sadhguru jaggi vasudev

there is always a time for things, and reasons for it! Whatever it is, its all from god

What you mean for the sikh panth? We are not here to create a group of sikhs and to be like muslims.
 We are not here to show that we are sikhs, we are here to be true. WE ARE SIKHS, WE MUST DO THAT, WE ARE SIKHS??? what the hell? 

That's what i hate about sikhism, they turning it into a fantasy island where you must do this do that. You know how much i love the gurus of the sikhs. Infact, i love them so much that, i learnt alot from their teachings. People dont like to expand, they like to stick to one thing in life...thats not me, i dont like to have a religion, because they come and they go, plus sikhism is truth, but people making it as a religion. Its not about doing this and doing that, because by doing the following in religion, your soul doesnt grow, you just make it hard for yourself to grow in life. I think the sikh guru ji's were talking about being your self, being pure concious, and be truth! People make it like its power rangers for god sake!!!

People want religion because they want to go to heaven. Well its not like that. I dont know anything myself, i may be wrong, but i knw that the easiest way of dealing with life is being yourself, which then you progress into becoming pure. Everything in Sikhism is right, exactly what god is looking for, but people turned it into an organisation where you have to show off about it and do stricly according to the religion...how are we mean to learn in life if we just sit there reading the gutkas? Be yourself, and progress in becoming pure, thats all, love everything, explore everything!

Theres A Time And Place For Everything That Happens!!


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## kaur-1 (Jul 24, 2006)

confusing said:
			
		

> hello readers,
> (i am sikh) when i was told about reincarnation  and how it was involved in sikhism i had to try to adjust to this concept, but as time progressed i realised you dont always HAVE to believe what you are told you can actually question things. So im questioning reincarnation....over the last 6 years i have fought with the idea that reincarnation really exists, to be honest i have come to the conclusion that i dont believe in reincarnation. I believe that those who have led their life the way Gxx wanted and basically avoided the bad stuff in the world will rest with the waheguru ji when they pass away. I feel that only this aspect of sikhism has been majorly been incorporated from Hinduism. In fact I believe that the reincarnation idea may have been added from Hinduism  as if to provide support for their religion? this is only my opinion. if you believe in reincarnation tell me why you believe in it, if you think otherwise i dont mind you telling me so but explain why. i would also like to here other view points about those who dont believe in reincarnation.....


You said that you have been "told" therefore I have assumed that you have never "read" or "lookedup" in Gurbani  and books by Gursikhs. Please read my 2 previous post. 
"Sikhism - The faith of the new age" is  one of the many free literature you can pick up to read but the back of the Nit Nem gutka is a good start to answering your question"

A link from http://www.allaboutsikhs.com/sikh-way-of-life/parcha-shabad-ka.html

"
*  Parcha Shabad Ka (Understanding Gurbani)* 
 Sikhism believes in reading, and reciting Gurbani by understanding it properly. The Sikhs are required to practice the Gurbani in their practical life. Bani enshrined in Sri Guru Granth Sahib is Dhur-Ki-Bani (Revelation of God's Word ). Bani is Shabad Guru. 
*Guru Arjan Dev says, *

“Gurbani is Word of God and it emnated from Him.”
   “From the Primal one, has emnated the Gurbani and it has effaced all the anxiety.” 
 Dur kI bwxI AweI ] 
   iqin sglI icMq imtweI ] 
   (628)
*Guru Arjan Dev Ji says, *
   “In the platter are placed three things, truth, contentment and meditation.” 
  Qwl ivic iqMin vsqU peIE squ sMqoKu vIcwro ] 
   (1429)​   Sikhs are required to regularly read and understand the Gurbani written within the Guru Granth Sahib. Gurbani teaches God's virtues and how they can be revealed to us.
 The daily recitation of hymns reminds us repeatedly of the pitfalls of egotism, anger, lust, attachment, and greed. The hymns encourage readers to develop good character by constantly reminding that these virtues bring peace.
 Sikhs accept the word of the Guru as their guide. They regard the Guru Granth Sahib as their living Guru because from Gurbani, they obtain the spiritual guidance they need."


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## Anoop (Jul 24, 2006)

Sorry kaur ji, i guess i may have been harsh and wrong at times,

he thing is, i dont think being yourself is the way, but its true though when ever i hear the name guru nanak dev ji, and see the poems guru nanak dev ji has written and the paintings of the guru, real or not, i just feel blessed and calm and emotional, i imagine an old interetsing adventurous wise, comfortable, yet flashing saint god who is just queit and has no expression and is just full commited to god,

i am not amrit shak and i dont have the 5k's, but i really in lov ewith this religion, the ting is when we talk about guru nanak dev ji, theres peace, with the shabads aswell. 

Sorry kaur ji, i didnt mean all that, and i might be wrong, i understand things now! I feel like reciting the gutkas aswell, but i dont know punjabi. I feel as thoguh i am blessed by guru nanak dev ji, even if im imagining it, i can sense some love and purity, and amazement. 

Kaur ji, sister thanks for sharing your information


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## Satyaban (Jul 25, 2006)

I can only say what I believe.
I believe thatkarma is the driving force of reincarnation. As the soul evolves in incurrs less karma to be brought into balance. I don't think this can be done without great spiritual understanding.
I believe the atman to be God's image within us and as the rishis have learned the eternal atman returns to God. 

If this were not so where would the atman go after the death of this life. Could God banish himself to a place called hell, I don't think so.

At the end of this time God will absorb all therefore there can be no eternal damnation. What's more if one believes God loves his creation it would give us chance after chance to get this right.

Om shanti shanti Om
Satyaban


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## confusing (Aug 28, 2006)

thank you again for the information you all have provided me with on this topic...........its good to get others perspectives. Once again, thank you!


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## Jaspal Singh (Aug 28, 2006)

Concept of Reincarnation is accepted by Christians as well, however they DONOT want to talk about it.

Here is from Bible:

Good News Bible

Page 16  Chapter11:

Verse10: For John is the one of whom the scripture says ’God said, I will send my messenger ahead of you to open the way for you’


Verse14: and if you are willing to believe their message, John is Elijah, whose coming was predicted.

Elijah was a prophet (mentioned in Old Testament) who was born well before Christ the Jesus. It was John who baptized Jesus through full immersion in water.

John was later on beheaded and his head was offered to some one to please a lady.

……………

Here is shabd from Guru Granth sahib ji about reincarnation:



gauVI guAwryrI mhlw 5 ] (176-10)
ga-orhee gu-aarayree mehlaa 5.
Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:


keI jnm Bey kIt pqMgw ] (176-10, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
ka-ee janam bha-ay keet patangaa.
In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;


keI jnm gj mIn kurMgw ] (176-11, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
ka-ee janam gaj meen kurangaa.
in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.


keI jnm pMKI srp hoieE ] (176-11, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
ka-ee janam pankhee sarap ho-i-o.
In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.


keI jnm hYvr ibRK joieE ]1] (176-11, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
ka-ee janam haivar barikh jo-i-o. ||1||
In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1||


imlu jgdIs imln kI brIAw ] (176-12, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
mil jagdees milan kee baree-aa.
Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.


icrMkwl ieh dyh sMjrIAw ]1] rhwau ] (176-12, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
chirankaal ih dayh sanjaree-aa. ||1|| rahaa-o.
After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause||



keI jnm sYl igir kirAw ] (176-12, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa.
In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;


keI jnm grB ihir KirAw ] (176-13, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa.
in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;


keI jnm swK kir aupwieAw ] (176-13, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa.
in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;


lK caurwsIh join BRmwieAw ]2] (176-13, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
lakh cha-oraaseeh jon bharmaa-i-aa. ||2||
you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2||


swDsMig BieE jnmu prwpiq ] (176-14, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
saaDhsang bha-i-o janam paraapat.
Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.


kir syvw Bju hir hir gurmiq ] (176-14, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
kar sayvaa bhaj har har gurmat.
Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har.



iqAwig mwnu JUTu AiBmwnu ] (176-14, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
ti-aag maan jhooth abhimaan.
Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance.
jIvq mrih drgh prvwnu ]3] (176-15, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
jeevat mareh dargeh parvaan. ||3||


Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord. ||3||



jo ikCu hoAw su quJ qy hogu ] (176-15, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
jo kichh ho-aa so tujh tay hog.
Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord.



Avru n dUjw krxY jogu ] (176-15, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
avar na doojaa karnai jog.
No one else can do anything at all.



qw imlIAY jw lYih imlwie ] (176-16, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
taa milee-ai jaa laihi milaa-ay.
We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself.




khu nwnk hir hir gux gwie ]4]3]72] (176-16, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
kaho naanak har har gun gaa-ay. ||4||3||72||
Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har. ||4||3||72||

....................................................


 
gauVI ​​​(308-5, gauVI, mÚ 4) 
​
satgur kee banee sat sat kar jaanhu gursikhahu har kartaa aap muhhu kadhaa-ay.​O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true.
The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it.​ ..............................................


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## Tejwant Singh (Aug 29, 2006)

Reincarnation is a fancy word for recycling. We as living organisms die and get recycled. Thats the law of the land. No one can change that. Yes, Gurbani does mention about past lives because they are part of Vedas and as people at that time were almost all hindus and/or muslims, our gurus used thier  scriptures to show them the meaninglessness of  the subjective truths carved by different religions.

Tejwant


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## No_One (Sep 3, 2006)

confusing said:
			
		

> hello readers,
> (i am sikh) when i was told about reincarnation and how it was involved in sikhism i had to try to adjust to this concept, but as time progressed i realised you dont always HAVE to believe what you are told you can actually question things. So im questioning reincarnation....over the last 6 years i have fought with the idea that reincarnation really exists, to be honest i have come to the conclusion that i dont believe in reincarnation. I believe that those who have led their life the way Gxx wanted and basically avoided the bad stuff in the world will rest with the waheguru ji when they pass away. I feel that only this aspect of sikhism has been majorly been incorporated from Hinduism. In fact I believe that the reincarnation idea may have been added from Hinduism as if to provide support for their religion? this is only my opinion. if you believe in reincarnation tell me why you believe in it, if you think otherwise i dont mind you telling me so but explain why. i would also like to here other view points about those who dont believe in reincarnation.....


 

If you are a sikh then I am sure you trust Guru Gobind Singh not to lie about past life, would you? or infact Kabir and other bhagats who openly talk of their previous lives?


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## roopsidhu (Sep 3, 2006)

A learner's  reading scope should not be restricted to some writers or writers from his own faith only. Why this sort of rigidness? The preachings of many sikh preachers are many a times against the teachings of SGGS ji, should we follow all of them. Lets put it in a way that all writings, explainations and litrature which matches the core idea of SGGS ji should be accepted with all due respect irrespective of the religon of the writer. When we select the authers of the books on the basis of religon then what are we doing ? are we following SGGS ji? Is it acceptable as per SGGS ji to devide the people on the basis of religon? Lets read and accept everything which is in line with the teachings of SGGS ji . Lets stop deviding the humanity on the basis of religon, cast and creed etc. Then only we will be following the hukam " guru maniyo granth"
Bhul chuk maaf


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## BhagatSingh (Aug 7, 2008)

VaheguruSeekr said:


> Reincarnation is a fancy word for recycling. We as living organisms die and get recycled.


How do you explain my mountain form in one of my past births?? 

:ice:
I should write a book called "The Curse of the Living Mountain" 
muahahaha
ignoring that last bit...

what's a soul?? or should a make a new topic?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 3, 2009)

Kaee "JANAM....is NOT about YOURS or MINE..Janams..at all...
You and ME..the ONe and ONLY "JANAM" we shoudl be concerned about is THIS ONE...GOBIND MILAN KEE EH TERI BARREAH..no more chances..mate..just this ONE.

The other Janams..the keets, the patangs, the mountains..the elphants..the dogs..all are THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU AND ME....and they are NOT ME or YOU..they are just those OTHER JANAMS.."Janam means BIRTH....the "birth" of a DOG..is Janam..kutta janam...the birth of a moth is Janam of keet patanga... simple...but we read between the lines and jump to conclusions... ALL thsoe other "births' will not have/or have...?? chance to meet waheguru..no idea..BUT as a Janam..BIRTH of HUMAN..Gurbani is very very very very clear...:happy:


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## upinder1955 (Apr 3, 2009)

We should only follow what we understand well. Blind faith has no place in sikhi. We are the students and Guru teaches us every thing. Sikhi is a way of life. As far as you understand how you have to live your present, past and future will be taken care of itself. Where the soul came from and where it'll go.....When time will come guru will teach you!
Every thing mentioned in gurubani is correct, its just a matter of time we require to understand it.So have patience , keep reading more and more gurbani and do ardas you will be shown the true path.


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## Amarpal (Apr 3, 2009)

Dear Khalsa Ji,

*Virinder Singh Ji* has very effectively brought forth the review on the idea of *Reincarnation*. It is a substantial effort and a great contribution to this forum. I liked it a lot and here I send in my contribution to the lovely effort that Virinder Singh Ji has made. I thank Virinder Singh Ji for triggering me to consolidate my understanding and post it here. I share with you all what I have understood.

The subject of *Reincarnation* does not allow itself to be understood fully using our mental capabilities. Yet as humans, we do try to understand it. In my attempt to understand the idea of *Reincarnation*, I had to answer lot of question that came to my mind. I had to create my own hypothesizes and concepts before I could integrate them into my understanding to form my views on the Idea of *Reincarnation. *The text that follows conveys my understanding.

*Please Note**: *I had to create my own concept to continue with my studies. Readers need not accept this as the ultimate understanding; my own understanding my change as I progress with my learning and as ‘The Sat’ teaches me. Readers may create for their own understanding their own concepts.

After studying the scripture and mental deliberation over a long time, I have come to conceptualize the essence of creation as ‘*Intelligent Cosmic Energy. *To me, this is, what Guru Sahib has named as ‘The Sat’ (*Sat Naam*) in the ‘Mool Mantra’. As we know energy cannot be created or destroyed, by implication it means that it existed on its own (*Saibhang*)and thus it was never born (*Ajuni)*; and cannot die as energy cannot be destroyed; it is timeless (*Akaal Murat*). It is one single entity every where (*Ek* *Ongkar*). Being the essence of all that exists, it is the intelligent driving force in each of the forms (*Karta Purakh*) that are or will be in creation; it has no enmity (*Nirvair*) towards any one or fear (*Nirbhau*) of any one. 

This way I have validated my concept of ‘The Sat’ using the ‘Mool Mantra’ of Siri Guru Granth Sahib.


Now I come to the term *Soul.*

We are living entity, the presence of Soul differentiate us from dead and insentient entities. Scripture of the land says that this *Soul* is a driving force within us. Since Karta Purakh is the real doer, the *Soul* within us has to be *Karta Purakh* i.e. Parmatma who is present every where. This way ‘*Atman’ (Soul)* and ‘*Parmatman’ (The Sat’)* are one and the same. It is for this reason; Guru Sahib has said that ‘The Sat’ is within each one of us. Since ‘The Sat’ is independent of time so will be the *Soul*, as both are one and the same. 

Now I come to my idea/concept/hypotheses about *Creation.*

We all know that energy can change forms – e.g. heat can become light, kinetic energy can become heat and so on … We also know that energy can get converted into matter and vice versa. Now I come to another of my hypothesis/concept i.e.

*Intelligent Cosmic Energy* prevailing all over the creation gets concentrated at some places and become matter of different types. This is what is said to be the ‘Prakriti’ i.e. insentient part of creation. At place where the *Intelligent Cosmic Energy* that was getting transformed from energy to matter, as explain above, retained the *Intelligent Cosmic Energy* in it, as the energy needed for the matter to be formed was higher than needed. This retained* Intelligent Cosmic Energy* provided the driving force that gave this primitive matter its ability to reproduce and grow. That is how, to me, it appears that primitive for of life came into being. This process fueled by *Intelligent Cosmic Energy* is in operation ever since then, creating new form of life and evolving further the existing ones.

I quote the sentences from Siri Guru Granth Sahib which Virinder Singh Ji have included in his post.

_1. “Kayee Janam Bha-ay Keett Patangaa, Kayee Janam Meen Kurangaa, Kayee Janam Pankhee Sarap Hooeyoo, Kayee Janam Haivar Birkh Jooeyoo, Mil Jagdeesh Milan Kee Baree-aa, Chirankaal Eh Deh Sanjaree-aa, Kayee Janam Sail Gir Kariaa, Kayee Janam Garabh Hir Khariaa, Kayee Janam Saakh Kar Oupaaey-aa, Lakh Chauraasee Joan Bharmaaey-aa, Saadh Sung Bhaeo Janam Praapat, Kar Seva Bhaj Har Har Gurmat._



In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect. In so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer. In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake. In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. Meet the God of the Universe. Now is the time to meet Master. After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains; in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb. In so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves. You wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. Through the Sadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life. Do seva, selfless service and vibrate the Name of Eternal Akal Purkh -----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri Guareri, AGGS, Page, 176”

Guru Sahib knew all. He is perfectly rational in what he has said. I was so as he has said. Since ‘The Sat’ existed so I i.e. the soul too existed, is existing and will be existing, as the ‘Atman and Parmatman are one and the same (as explained above). Today also I am composed of elements and insentient matter elements, compounds and minerals which came to me from different parts of the creation; that was me earlier and because of the *Intelligent Cosmic Energy* in me I am alive and a sentient being.

Now I come to my idea of *Reincarnation.*

Guru Sahib has very clearly said that because of the desires we have to come again and again to this world and enter the cycle of births and death. He has also said that to get win over this cycle of birth and death we have to dissolve our ‘*Ahamkara i.e. Ego*’. This provide me the clue and the results of my mental deliberation I share with you below.

For living we need to eat, which provides us with energy. When we think we consume energy and the output of this mental exercise are thoughts. Since the input to this process was energy and we know that energy cannot be created or destroyed but can change form, and input to the mental process was energy so the output i.e. thought also must be some form of energy. Since energy cannot be destroyed, all the thoughts that got created ever since sentient being came into this world must be around hanging in air, only those thoughts that got realized disappeared from the environment because they change form – they became material reality; all the rest are around us. 

Guru Sahib has asked us to offer prayers collectively in Gurdwaras. There is rational to it. When large number of people express the same desire, the thought gains strength, as similar thoughts coalesce and add to its strength, the reverse also is true; opposing thoughts on the same issue negate each other and reduce its strength. 

I am also convinced that an individual’s thought remain bunched. The glue for this bunching is the sense of ‘*I –ness’* -* Ahamkara i.e. Ego.* These thoughts are some total of our desires; they remain in the air and their link with the individual is through her or his ‘*I –ness’. *For thoughts this ‘*I –ness’* is what postal address is for letter. Guru Sahib has said that the Karmas get dissolved for the person who has risen above ‘*I –ness’;* whose *Ahamkara i.e. Ego* has been won.   The truth of Guru Sahibs teaching is clear to me, the person who has no ‘*I –ness’* has no address for the Karmic process to reach her or him to deliver the impact of her or his past Karmas, this way the past karma becomes equivalent to the roasted seed which cannot produce a new plant. 

All this is to convey how the person’s desires and Karmas which are also in thought form remain bunched as they all carry the same tag of *I –ness’; * this bunch exist in air independent of her or his body tagged to what the *Intelligent Cosmic Energy* or *Soul*.

When the person dies, this bunch of Desires and Karmas searches for a new body where they can get satisfied and the *Soul* brings that new body into a state of consciousness which reflects the tendencies and attributes of the past lives. This way the being of the person ‘*Reincarnates’ *and getsinto a new body i.e. a new form.

When the person has over come her or his ‘*I –ness’* - *Ahamkara i.e. Ego* as asked by Guru Sahib the person has reach the state of what the scripture of the land refer to as *Nirvana*. When the person dies in this state the soul has no compulsion; it does not seek any new body. The embodied *Soul* merges with ‘The Sat’ as it was before embodiment. This is *Moksha*, the person had met *Gobind,* ‘The Sat’

With this I close.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh


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## 01-ARSH-01 (Apr 3, 2009)




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## spnadmin (Apr 3, 2009)

01-ARSH-01

Your reply fascinates me  So now say more so we can enjoy your understanding of the issues and also appreciate your wit. The topic of reincarnation does not have to be discussed in an atmosphere of gloom and without a slice of sharp analysis now and again. Thanks.


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## 01-ARSH-01 (Apr 3, 2009)

_*wat can i say i mean by reading all  veiws i think everybody is right from their point of veiw    well i do belive in recarniation we get this chance to be human after going through 84 lakh "joon" and if we dont do live up to wat it says in Guru Granth Sahib Je then we start this cycle again and if we r doing the right thing then we rest in peace up in the heavon 


lol i no i sound childish.. im only 15 u no i cant use these big words  :whisling: 
*_


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## spnadmin (Apr 3, 2009)

01-ARSH-)1 ji

You don't sound like you are 15 at all. What are you going to do with that big brain? Never let it rust. Just the fact that you posted the emoticon of the two fencing emoticons shows you can see that the topic of reincarnation is rich for discussion.


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## j_uk (Sep 3, 2009)

Dear reincarnation is one of there and been told by guruji in bani also its not the story that any body could change and its not add by hindusim it is a similarity betten the hindusim and sikhsim of reincarnation.I would ask you one quest think over it 
Say one child was born in rich family and at the same time other born in poor family 
After 1 min of there birth time the one who was born in rich family is already become millonare without doing any think 
The other child who was born in poor family was still poor
You will say its luck
But who decide what kind of luck you will born with????????????????????????
Its you previous birth karma


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## Santokh Singh1989 (Jul 22, 2010)

I've been reading a great amount of threads on here about this reincarnation topic and its seems like, for the most part and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, that there are 2 general camps. Those who accept the general theory of karma and reincarnation, and those who seem to completely obect to both. I've read in a couple of places (please don't ask me to find quotes from people as I've been reading all day now and my brain is a tad fried, that and I've jumped around to so many different websites and  thread etc that I can't remember everything) that some of the people that reject karma and reincarnation say that we only go around once and that this is the only chance. I've read others who also say that they don't believe in reincarnation say that no matter what we're going to merge into God or disapear into oblivion. 

My question is what happens to those people who do countless evil things like rapeing people and swindleing, killing children, being extremley prideful and violent etc and never acknowledge that what they do is wrong and never ask for forgiveness or accept their faults. When they die, do they just simply 'pass into oblivion' and never have to answer for their wickedness? I know God will forgive all for anything but what about people who do evil and never ask for forgiveness. I understand that God is not some cruel vengeful entity thats waiting to condemn everyone for every tiny wrong they comit. I accept that my knowledge of Sikh Dharma is sub-par at best especially compared to most of the members of this forum but in my personal opinon there has to be some sort of negative effect as a result of constant negitive actions in the next life. I've heard people talk about heaven and hell being on this planet, I understand where they're coming from and agree but shouldn't there still be something of a negitive nature that happens to someone who commits evil all their life? For example I know there are many evil, corrupt people in high positions of power around the world who live in extreme comfort and are totally happy and content with their lives and as far as they are concerned are living in heaven. They live their lives in happiness at the expense of others and at no time submit to God or ask forgiveness or even care for forgivness . So what I'm asking is when they pass on are they really going to just dissapear into oblivion without having to attone for their wrong doings? And if so whats the insentive to try and live a moral and pious life if there are no reprocutions for your actions? It seems to me like Karma forces people to have to atone one way or another for their wrong doings and is part of the insentive (NOT ALL mind you only part) to do good and live piously.

 I Don't know, my logic may be flawed as I am not a Gyanee nor am I a Gurmukh so please forgive me if I've missed something somewhere and please help me to fill in the gaps.

Sat Naam Saddh Sangat


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## spnadmin (Jul 22, 2010)

Santokh Singh ji

I tried to be brief. It never works out for me. Maybe later I will write more. But you are quite correct - there are two camps, perhaps 3, on the subject of reincarnation here at SPN.

1. The group that accepts the notion that the soul returns as part of the cycle of coming and going, life and death. The cycle takes the soul through many lifetimes, and the purpose is to pay off karmic debts and move toward higher levels of spirituality. I believe this represents the majority view in the Sikh panth.

This link gives a fine summary of the understanding of karma in Skhism - the mainstream view 
http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart40.htm

And another from the same site
http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart181.htm

2. A group that rejects it and quotes Gurbani to show that there is only one opportunity to merge in the light of the Naam, one lifetime. One of the foremost proponents of this way of thinking was the late Dr. Baldev Singh who wrote a major article about karma and reincarnation for the Sikh Bulletin last year before he passed away. 

This thread at SPN explores karma and reincarnation in the different light http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essay...gurmatt-nankian-philosophy-totally-new-4.html

And the article referred to by Dr. Baldev Singh is attached. The discussion of karma and reincarnation is part of the general article on Guru Nanak's philosophy. Starts on page 33.

3. Possibly a 3rd group, which I belong to, accepts the idea of reincarnation. However not in the way that is typically presented: namely a system by which one has the opportunity to progress or evolve spirituality by settling scores coming from karma of past lives.  Frankly I do not see how there is an ethical or moral component in most views of reincarnation, although the idea of repaying karmic debts is generally the way these theories propose. And I do believe that reincarnation, when understood as a means to evolve to new levels through the payment of karmic debts, contains reinforces the caste system, and was historically "given" to the people of India for just that reason. 

If the thread doesn't go anywhere maybe I will come back and summarize what some of the perspectives have been here. I read every thread with new posts every day and can probably pick out some that are memorable, at least memorable to me.

I would go out on a limb and say this. Reincarnation is not a required belief or dogma in Sikhism, as it is in Buddhism. Challenging reincarnationn in Buddhism is grounds for being banned from e-sangha a huge and popular Buddhist forum. The shabads that discuss it can be understood to teach this idea, or to be teaching something quite different.


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## baljeet_singh (Aug 25, 2010)

What I don't understand with reincarnation is this... if we are all constantly being "recycled" then shouldn't the number of people and animals etc. stay more or less the same? Humans have constanty been growing in number, and the only way you could have more and more organisms on this earth is if more souls are being made... which just doesn't seem right to me.


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## dalbirk (Aug 26, 2010)

Here is a very good article by my enlightened friend G singh ( pk70 ) on his blog . Describes the whole concept in its entireity .

http://gursoch.blogspot.com/
20100810
The concept of Incarnation in Gurbani
First of all, I must mention here that talking about the Creator bears no rationality. It is a personal belief. This belief leads to an experience which doesn’t need verification from those who turn hyper - rational while following rationality. In Sikhi, the concept of incarnation exists, and I shall prove it in detail with the help of Guru’s own words. I shall also share with you the expressions, used in Gurbani, that clearly express the concept of incarnation. We will also see if they are merely metaphors. If the concept of incarnation is taken away from Sikhi, as I have learned from studying Gurbani, the purpose of doing Naam - Simran and living detached from Maya appear hardly useful. Doubtlessly, Naam – Simran and remaining detached from Maya filth are basics of Sikhi; therefore, the concept of incarnation in Gurbani is a very important factor. There are many questions about some references given in Gurbani about “after - death” scenario; those can never be answered through rational approach. For instance, the statements as “nothing goes with the soul but His Name [595 SGGS, 1342 SGGS Mehla 1,” are repeatedly given in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Because I have been a student of literature, I am very well aware of usage of metaphors. Most often, the thing that bothers me is that whenever people talk about “unique Nanakian – philosophy” [indeed it is], they forget one thing that to prove that uniqueness, distortion of Gurbani is not required to satisfy rational – world. To put in other words, we Sikhs, should never try to make numbers by declaring that Sikhi is a scientific religion. In a matter of fact, no religion can be scientific. Out there the people, who are trying to teach science from their religious scriptures, have failed to contribute anything of significance to science. Obviously, it becomes a joke if any person does so.
Distortion in Gurbani occurs when people use “Janam – Maran” as “stages of life.” Of course, there are some usages where “janam – Maran/taking birth, dying” indeed are used for zigzags of life which happen because of the frequent tides of joy and pains in life. In Gurbani, when there is a direct reference to the incarnation, it should be accepted as it is. Some hyper – rational people say that the talk about incarnation is there because Gurus and Bhagatas didn’t want to get into a controversy openly, so they used it as metaphors or references to established thoughts [It is totally laughable idea though]. I wonder what are they are thinking! In fact, all enlightened ones have been into controversy due to their different approach towards life than the rest of the population; History verifies it. It remains a fact that they have never shown fear while expressing their spiritual experience; we shall check that as well. Let us start with Guru Nanak Dev’s own words, on 752 SGGS Raag Suhee, Mehla 1

ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ ਜਿਉ ਆਰਣਿ ਲੋਹਾ ਪਾਇ ਭੰਨਿ ਘੜਾਈਐ ॥ ਤਿਉ ਸਾਕਤੁ ਜੋਨੀ ਪਾਇ ਭਵੈ ਭਵਾਈਐ ॥੧॥ 
Sūhī mėhlā 1. Ji▫o āraṇ lohā pā▫e bẖann gẖaṛā▫ī▫ai. Ŧi▫o sākaṯ jonī pā▫e bẖavai bẖavā▫ī▫ai. ||1|| 

In Essence: Just as the iron is put in a furnace to melt it for reshaping it, Maya – lover is put through various existences.

In the above Vaakas, a comparison of the reshaping of the iron and the going into existences of the Maya - lover mortals, is done. In these Vaakas,there is no other metaphoric expression which can change its meaning. Let us for a moment, assume it is a metaphor referring to miseries of life; however, then a question rises: why a mortal is put through various miseries? Is it done to make him or her better? What about those who never become better though they go through miseries all the time? In the above Vaakas, it is said clearly that something is done to accomplish something, isn’t? Otherwise, why to put the mortals into miseries? In other words, what is accomplished by doing so? Reshaping of the iron means to sculpture it again; what is accomplished by putting Maya - lovers into miseries then? Most of the Maya - lovers remain devoid of eternal happiness, isn’t that enough? Obviously, here it [Joni pae] is not a metaphor used to convey miseries etc. Guru makes it easier to understand the concept of incarnation by comparing it with the process of iron - refashioning; the mortals who do not live in His love, go through various existences like the iron put in the furnace to reshape it. Clearly, it is a simple comparison of iron and plight of the Maya – lovers. There is no way anyone can deny this concept of incarnation in Gurbani. Please read on the next Vaakas of “Rahao” this idea becomes crystal clear:

ਜਿਵੇਂ ਭੱਠੀ ਵਿਚ ਲੋਹਾ ਪਾ ਕੇ (ਤੇ) ਗਾਲ ਕੇ (ਨਵੇਂ ਸਿਰੇ) ਘੜਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਲੋਹੇ ਤੋਂ ਕੰਮ ਆਉਣ ਵਾਲੀਆਂ ਚੀਜ਼ਾਂ ਬਣਾਈਆਂ ਜਾਂਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ) ਤਿਵੇਂ ਮਾਇਆ-ਵੇੜ੍ਹਿਆ ਜੀਵ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਪਾਇਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਚੱਕਰ ਲਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਤੇ ਆਖ਼ਿਰ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਮੇਹਰ ਨਾਲ ਸੁਮਤਿ ਸਿੱਖਦਾ ਹੈ)।੧। 


ਬਿਨੁ ਬੂਝੇ ਸਭੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਕਮਾਵਣਾ ॥ ਹਉਮੈ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਵਣਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
Bin būjẖe sabẖ ḏukẖ ḏukẖ kamāvaṇā. Ha▫umai āvai jā▫e bẖaram bẖulāvaṇā. ||1|| rahā▫o. 

In Essence: Without knowing Him/realizing Him, all what the mortals get is distress. Because of the conceit, people keep coming and going, and the doubt keeps deluding them. [Pause]

For the hyper – rational, everything finishes here because nothing is left to recycle. As per above Guru Vakaas, due to conceit they come and go, but from where they come and to where they go? To find out the truth; therefore, we should understand what is being talked in the Vaakas?
Actual meaning of “coming and going” is to be born to die as a routine after a life. From where mortals come and to where they go, is answered in the first Vaakas: they take birth to die to take birth again. Doubtlessly, in the “Raho” Vaakas, the concept of coming and going is also made clear. Hence the Coming and the going is not any metaphor that can change the meaning of above Guru Vaakas. If anyone doesn’t believe in it, I call it his or her choice, but Guru Nanak – path certainly is based on getting the soul saved from this coming and going by obtaining union with the Creator.

(ਸਹੀ ਜੀਵਨ-ਜਾਚ) ਸਮਝਣ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਮਨੁੱਖ (ਜੇਹੜਾ ਭੀ) ਕਰਮ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਦੁੱਖ (ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ) ਦੁੱਖ ਹੀ ਦੁੱਖ (ਸਹੇੜਦਾ ਹੈ)। ਹਉਮੈ ਦੇ ਕਾਰਨ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਪਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਭਟਕਣਾ ਵਿਚ ਪੈ ਕੇ ਕੁਰਾਹੇ ਪਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ।੧।ਰਹਾਉ। 
In this Shabada which partially quoted above, Guru keeps explaining how the loss of not having union with the Creator occurs, and how it is still possible to be with Him. It is a simple concept: As a soul, a part of the Creator is away from Him and it will continue going into existences until it settles with the Creator finally. In the last Vaakas of the Shabada, Guru concludes that if one turns towards Him, it is possible that His grace occurs and the union with Him will happen. If the mortals remain attached to Maya – love, they will pass through various existences; however, in this human life, a chance to realize Him certainly comes. If it is lost, who knows when such chance will come again? On 725 SGGS Mehla 1:

ਜਿਨਿ ਰੰਗਿ ਕੰਤੁ ਨ ਰਾਵਿਆ ਸਾ ਪਛੋ ਰੇ ਤਾਣੀ ॥ ਹਾਥ ਪਛੋੜੈ ਸਿਰੁ ਧੁਣੈ ਜਬ ਰੈਣਿ ਵਿਹਾਣੀ ॥੨॥ 
Jin rang kanṯ na rāvi▫ā sā pacẖẖo re ṯāṇī. Hāth pacẖẖoṛe sir ḏẖuṇai jab raiṇ vihāṇī. ||2|| 

In Essence: That soul – bride repents eventually, who doesn’t enjoy being in love with her Spouse [Creator], and when the life - night ends, she will repent seriously [by hitting head with something, an expression of repentance] 

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਜਿਸ ਜੀਵ-ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਨੇ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਨਾਲ ਖਸਮ-ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀਤਾ, ਉਹ ਆਖ਼ਰ ਪਛੁਤਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ। ਜਦੋਂ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਜ਼ਿੰਦਗੀ ਦੀ ਰਾਤ ਬੀਤ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਤਦੋਂ ਉਹ ਆਪਣੇ ਹੱਥ ਮਲਦੀ ਹੈ, ਸਿਰ ਮਾਰਦੀ ਹੈ;।੨।

ਪਛੋਤਾਵਾ ਨਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਜਬ ਚੂਕੈਗੀ ਸਾਰੀ ॥ ਤਾ ਫਿਰਿ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਰਾਵੀਐ ਜਬ ਆਵੈਗੀ ਵਾਰੀ ॥੩॥ 
Pacẖẖoṯāvā nā milai jab cẖūkaigī sārī. Ŧā fir pi▫ārā rāvī▫ai jab āvaigī vārī. ||3||

In Essence: [Idea from first Vaakas continues]. Nothing is gained by repenting when the Life – night ends. She [the soul –bride] can contemplate on Him only when she gets her turn again. [Vari: turn/chance]
Above, there is not only the use of Vari/turn” but also the word “Fir/again” is used with it to explain the occurrence of the next turn.

(ਪਰ) ਜਦੋਂ ਜ਼ਿੰਦਗੀ ਦੀ ਸਾਰੀ ਰਾਤ ਮੁੱਕ ਜਾਏਗੀ, ਤਦੋਂ ਪਛੁਤਾਵਾ ਕੀਤਿਆਂ ਕੁਝ ਹਾਸਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ। ਉਸ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ ਫਿਰ ਤਦੋਂ ਹੀ ਸਿਮਰਿਆ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜਦੋਂ (ਮੁੜ ਕਦੇ) ਮਨੁੱਖਾ ਜੀਵਨ ਦੀ ਵਾਰੀ ਮਿਲੇਗੀ।੩।

After the end of life, what is the “turn = chance” Guru ji is talking about? Living life to the fullest doesn’t need any Divine knowledge; such goals are put into the heads by Maya – inflicted societies anyway. Divine knowledge is all about Him. To understand Him, love Him, and to live this given life in His love. For that, a True Guru, who has seen Him and is able to show others, is required. Other than that, all other things like conquering area and becoming Master of that area has nothing to do with the Divine knowledge. The urges to get power are enforced by “self – conceit”, which blocks the spiritual progression. We are aware of the fact that so called warriors of establishing Islam or other religions didn’t think for a second to kill their own brothers to fetch power. Often religion is used to satisfy one’s own conceit; it is called exploitation of the religion and giving bad name to the religion. Where conceit exists, the growth of spirituality related with the creator remains stagnant. As per Gurbani advice, the human birth is a chance to realize Him, so we should rise above rubbish of the worldly talk and live totally in His love. By doing so, He is realized, and the purpose of this human birth is accomplished. Otherwise, when will such chance/turn [to contemplate on Him] come, nobody knows but the Creator. Talking about the Creator and still chasing lustful – pursuits do not go together. Talking about praising the Creator and establishing empires by killing others is not a religious goal. All such goals are conceit - guided. His devotee divorces from such pursuits because he/she doesn’t live for such goals but to be with Him. 


As per Guru – thought, if this life is wasted in other pursuits, a chance at hand to contemplate on Him is missed. Guru Nanak Dev is not interested in science; Guru Ji is not worried if some hyper - rational people will not be convinced with what he says. As per his personal experience with the Creator, he simply keeps stressing the need of the Creator in the life to get free from all bonds .

Sometimes some people try to be cute by proving Gurbani – concepts as rationality – based concepts, sometimes they try to distort Gurbani to meet their own life styles, and sometimes to please hyper -rational people by claiming that they belong to a faith which is scientific. Having such approach, they claim Guru Nanak Dev doesn’t believe in the incarnation, and they try to give new meanings to the words like “maran, Jaman, joon/ dying/taking birth/existence” forgetting that this concept is also described in Gurbani with a clear cut word “Garbh/womb”; a list of such proofs in this regard is not lmited. It is also a sheer blindness not to comprehend the truth, which goes beyond rationality. That is why Guru – directions stress on abandoning our own intellect to follow the Guru. Going into “garbh” is not a metaphor, it is all about taking birth through a mother; it is that simple.

Since I am not a scholar of other religions, so I shall talk about Sikhi only which is based on Gurbani. I admit that Gurbani deals with rationality, but on some avenues, it detours from it and talks about paranormal issues like “nothing goes with the being but His Naam after death or a journey of the souls into different existences”. Those Sikhs [As they believe to be], who do not believe in the incarnation, claim that Sikhi has nothing to do with the incarnation; however, they have no way out to interpret the words like “ ਗਰਭ ਜੂਨੀ Garabẖ Joni”repeatedly used in Gurbani. Keeping Gurbani statements in my mind, I must say this that they are not only naive about the concept of incarnation in Gurbani but also in denial to accept this fact supported by the Gurus vigorously. As stated earlier, hyper – rational intellectuals interpret that “Janam/marn/birth and death” as the metaphors defining “stages of life.” Let us agree with them for a second, still the words like “ਗਰਭ ਜੂਨੀgarbh/ existence through mother’s womb,” overwhelmingly, defines the origin of birth. What kind of metaphor is that? Guru is very clear on that and continuously talks about the journey of the soul.
On 715 Todi Mehla 5 

ਸੁਣਿ ਮਨ ਸੀਖ ਸਾਧੂ ਜਨ ਸਗਲੋ ਥਾਰੇ ਸਗਲੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਛਤ ਮਿਟਿਓ ਰੇ ॥ ਜਾ ਕੋ ਲਹਣੋ ਮਹਰਾਜ ਰੀ ਗਾਠੜੀਓ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਗਰਭਾਸਿ ਨ ਪਉੜਿਓ ਰੇ ॥੨॥੨॥੧੯॥ 
Suṇ man sīkẖ sāḏẖū jan saglo thāre sagle parācẖẖaṯ miti▫o re. Jā ko lahṇo mahrāj rī gāṯẖ▫ṛī▫o jan Nānak garbẖās na pa▫oṛi▫o re. ||2||2||19|| 

In Essence: Oh mind! Listen to the teachings of Saints, your all sins will be eliminated. Who is destined to get [Naam] from Prabh’s treasure, they do not enter into mother’s womb. 
What can be the other meaning of “going into mother’s womb” than ‘incarnation” here?
Now look at the whole concept of Sikhi given by Guru Nanak on 414 SGGS

ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਮਹਿ ਆਕਾਰੁ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥ ਅਕਲ ਕਲਾ ਸਚੁ ਸਾਚਿ ਟਿਕਾਵੈ ॥ ਸੋ ਨਰੁ ਗਰਭ ਜੋਨਿ ਨਹੀ ਆਵੈ ॥੪॥ 
Nirankār mėh ākār samāvai. Akal kalā sacẖ sācẖ tikāvai. So nar garabẖ jon nahī āvai. ||4|| 

In Essence: The one, who immerses in Formless Prabh and stables with the Eternal Creator having power beyond measure, doesn’t enter into womb-existence.

It is all about attaching to Him and never getting separated from Him through involving in His Simran.

On 604 SGGS, Third Nanak uses “maran/die” as a metaphor, in the following Guru Vaakas, it is very much clear in its use; let us look at it, but keep in mind that in the Guru Vaakas that follow these Vaakas below, its use has different meaning:

ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰਹੁ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੀਵਹੁ ਸਦ ਹੀ ਤਾ ਫਿਰਿ ਮਰਣੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਦਾ ਮਨਿ ਮੀਠਾ ਸਬਦੇ ਪਾਵੈ ਕੋਈ ॥੩॥ 
Sabaḏ marahu fir jīvhu saḏ hī ṯā fir maraṇ na ho▫ī. Amriṯ nām saḏā man mīṯẖā sabḏe pāvai ko▫ī. ||3|| 

In Essence: When the mortal totally involves in The Guru – Shaabada and dies [gets detached], he or she doesn’t die again [metaphor: once one learns how to live detached through Guru Shabada, then there is no chance that he or she will ever go through painful moments again]. A few obtain the ever sweet Name of Prabh through Guru Shabada. 

Again stress is on The Guru – teachings that inspire the mind to be with the Name of the Creator; once that is happened, pains do not bother again. Therefore, the use of “Maran/to die” here is indeed a metaphor. Now look at the below Guru Vaakas, there is no way it can be a metaphoric expression with the same meaning stated above:

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਵਿਚ ਜੁੜ ਕੇ (ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਵਲੋਂ) ਅਛੋਹ ਹੋ ਜਾਵੋ, ਫਿਰ ਸਦਾ ਲਈ ਹੀ ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਜੀਊਂਦੇ ਰਹੋਗੇ, ਫਿਰ ਕਦੇ ਆਤਮਕ ਮੌਤ ਨੇੜੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਢੁਕੇਗੀ। ਜੇਹੜਾ ਭੀ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੀ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਹਰਿ-ਨਾਮ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਕਰ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਇਹ ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਨਾਮ ਸਦਾ ਲਈ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਮਿੱਠਾ ਲੱਗਣ ਲੱਗ ਪੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ।

ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਮਾਇਆ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਇਆ ਹਉਮੈ ਬੰਧਨ ਕਮਾਏ ॥ ਜੰਮਣੁ ਮਰਣੁ ਸਿਰ ਊਪਰਿ ਊਭਉ ਗਰਭ ਜੋਨਿ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਏ ॥੨॥ 
Ŧarai guṇ mā▫i▫ā bẖaram bẖulā▫i▫ā ha▫umai banḏẖan kamā▫e. Jamaṇ maraṇ sir ūpar ūbẖa▫o garabẖ jon ḏukẖ pā▫e. ||2|| 

In Essence: Those who are bound due to their conceit are deluded by three modes of Maya. Birth and death hang over their heads, and by going through the womb -existences, they suffer in pain. ||2||

Here if we take, “Jaman-Maran” as a metaphor, what we will do with the word “ਗਰਭ ਜੋਨਿ Garbhjoon” used in the above Vaakas? Guru has used both “Jaman – Maran” and “garbh – joon” together to express his belief in “going into existences”. What more proof we need to admit that Guru Nanak Dev believes in various existences after death? How anyone can call it a metaphor and give new meanings to “garbh-joon/ existence through a womb”?

Now look how Guru stresses on “ਫੁਨਿ FUN /again/”
On 898 SGGS Mehla 5

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਇਹ ਲੋਕੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ ਨਹੀ ਭੇਟਤ ਧਰਮ ਰਾਇਆ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਸੋਭਾਵੰਤ ॥ ਫੁਨਿ ਗਰਭਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਬਸੰਤ ॥੧॥ 
Rāmkalī mėhlā 5. Ih loke sukẖ pā▫i▫ā. Nahī bẖetaṯ ḏẖaram rā▫i▫ā. Har ḏargėh sobẖāvanṯ. Fun garabẖ nāhī basanṯ. ||1||

In Essence: In this world, I have procured peace. In His court I will be memorable; there will be no meeting with righteous judge, and I shall not abide in the womb again.

(ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਮਿੱਤ੍ਰਤਾ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ ਉਸ ਨੇ) ਇਸ ਜਗਤ ਵਿਚ (ਆਤਮਕ) ਸੁਖ ਮਾਣਿਆ, (ਪਰਲੋਕ ਵਿਚ) ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਧਰਮਰਾਜ ਨਾਲ ਵਾਹ ਨਾਹ ਪਿਆ। ਉਹ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਹਜ਼ੂਰੀ ਵਿਚ ਸੋਭਾ ਵਾਲਾ ਬਣਦਾ ਹੈ, ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਜਨਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ (ਭੀ) ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਂਦਾ।੧। 

Please read carefully, “eh loke/this world”, if this world is ਇਹ ਲੋਕੇ / Ih loke, then question rise: is there any other world? Guru talks about that too. When Guru says that there will be no meeting with the “dharamrajsupposedly known to be the judge who serves justice on behalf of the Creator,” obviously he talks about afterlife; his statement is about going to the Creator with honor without any obstacle. After this world, after getting His honor, Guru also says that there will be no going into womb again. I don’t see any other meanings implied in the above quoted Vaakas.

The words, “ਫੁਨਿ ਗਰਭਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਬਸੰਤ” again tell the whole story: going into a womb again. Obviously it means to reincarnate. Guru also uses another word “ਫਿਰਿ” which means “again;” here it is on 717 SGGS Mehla 5

ਚਾਰਿ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਅਸਟ ਮਹਾ ਸਿਧਿ ਕਾਮਧੇਨੁ ਪਾਰਜਾਤ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰੁਖੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਨਿ ਗਹੀ ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਫਿਰਿ ਗਰਭ ਨ ਧੁਖੁ ॥੨॥੧੦॥੨੯॥ 
Cẖār paḏārath asat mahā siḏẖ kāmḏẖen pārjāṯ har har rukẖ. Nānak saran gahī sukẖ sāgar janam maran fir garabẖ na ḏẖukẖ. ||2||10||29|| 

In Essence: Akalpurakh Himself is the source of four blessings, eight supernatural powers of great Sidhas, the wish – fulfilling Elysian cow and the wish – fulfilling tree. Nanak says that the person who takes support of the Ocean of peace, the Creator, will not worry to go back to “womb – existence” again. [Means only this life is outcome of womb but again there will be none; well if a person remains into duality is there another life? The answer follows]

ਹੇ ਮਾਂ! ਚਾਰ ਪਦਾਰਥ (ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲਾ), ਅੱਠ ਵੱਡੀਆਂ ਕਰਾਮਾਤੀ ਤਾਕਤਾਂ (ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲਾ) ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਹੈ। ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਹੈ ਕਾਮਧੇਨ; ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਹੈ ਪਾਰਜਾਤ ਰੁੱਖ। ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! (ਆਖ-ਹੇ ਮਾਂ! ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨੇ) ਸੁਖਾਂ ਦੇ ਸਮੁੰਦਰ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਆਸਰਾ ਲੈ ਲਿਆ, ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਦਾ ਫ਼ਿਕਰ, ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਪੈਣ ਦਾ ਫ਼ਿਕਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ।੨।੧੦।੨੯। 

On 128 SGGS, Third Nanak explains it explicitly and this is what Guru believes in. If some do not want to believe in it, they are free to enjoy the swings of their own thoughts:

ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਪੜਹਿ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਕਹਾਵਹਿ ॥ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਮਹਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਹਿ ॥ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਮਾਤੇ ਕਿਛੁ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੂਨੀ ਆਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ 
Mājẖ mėhlā 3. Manmukẖ paṛėh pandiṯ kahāvėh. Ḏūjai bẖā▫e mahā ḏukẖ pāvahi. Bikẖi▫ā māṯe kicẖẖ sūjẖai nāhī fir fir jūnī āvaṇi▫ā. ||1|| 

In Essence: The mind – slaves study and deem themselves pundit. Due to others love [other than the Creator], they suffer greatly. Being intoxicated in Maya, they do not understand anything; therefore, they go into existence repeatedly [ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ which means again and again]

ਆਪਣੇ ਮਨ ਦੇ ਪਿੱਛੇ ਤੁਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਮਨੁੱਖ (ਵੇਦ ਆਦਿਕ ਧਰਮ ਪੁਸਤਕਾਂ) ਪੜ੍ਹਦੇ ਹਨ (ਤੇ ਇਸ ਕਾਰਨ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਨੂੰ) ਪੰਡਿਤ ਵਿਦਵਾਨ ਅਖਵਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ (ਪਰ ਫਿਰ ਭੀ ਉਹ) ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਪਿਆਰ ਵਿਚ (ਟਿਕੇ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਧਰਮ-ਪੁਸਤਕਾਂ ਪੜ੍ਹਦੇ ਹੋਏ ਭੀ ਹਉਮੈ ਆਦਿਕ ਦਾ) ਵੱਡਾ ਦੁੱਖ ਸਹਿੰਦੇ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਵਿਚ ਮਸਤ ਰਹਿਣ ਕਰਕੇ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ (ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦੀ) ਕੁਝ ਭੀ ਸਮਝ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਂਦੀ, ਉਹ ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਪਏ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ।੧। 

It is just not a talk or a reference to the established belief, but it is a part of Guru Message. As per Gurbani, our being in an existence is an explicit picture of separation from the Creator. This is the pain that needs to be ended just as His true devotees do. On 336 Fifth Nanak says that most of the people are in love with Maya, which keeps them going into various existences:

ਏਤੁ ਮੋਹਿ ਡੂਬਾ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕੋਈ ਉਤਰੈ ਪਾਰਿ ॥੩॥ 
Ėṯ mohi dūbā sansār. Gurmukẖ ko▫ī uṯrai pār. ||3||

In Essence: In this love [the love of Maya], the world is drowned, a rare Guru – follower swims across [Maya ocean].

ਇਹ ਮੋਹ ਵਿਚ ਸਾਰਾ ਜਗਤ ਡੁੱਬਾ ਪਿਆ ਹੈ, ਕੋਈ ਵਿਰਲਾ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਜੋ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਦੱਸੇ ਰਸਤੇ ਤੇ ਤੁਰਦਾ ਹੈ (ਮੋਹ ਦੇ ਸਮੁੰਦਰ ਵਿਚੋਂ) ਪਾਰ ਲੰਘਦਾ ਹੈ।੩।

ਏਤੁ ਮੋਹਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੂਨੀ ਪਾਹਿ ॥ ਮੋਹੇ ਲਾਗਾ ਜਮ ਪੁਰਿ ਜਾਹਿ ॥੪॥ 
Ėṯ mohi fir jūnī pāhi. Mohe lāgā jam pur jāhi. ||4|| 

In Essence: Because of this love [Maya love instead of loving the Creator], the mortal goes through existence again; due to this love, he or she has to go through death [again].
Note: Everybody faces death, why in above Vaakas, facing death is described as a loss, or painful? Doubtless, it makes clear that as long as one remains into existences by forgetting the Creator, facing death remains dreadful because it comes again and again and separates the soul from its attachments. For His devotees, it becomes a last call because they merge with the Creator once for all and do not face it again. This idea is elaborated in the following Guru Vakaas:

(ਹੇ ਭਾਈ!) ਇਸ ਮੋਹ ਵਿਚ (ਫਸਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ) ਤੂੰ ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਪਏਂਗਾ, ਮੋਹ ਵਿਚ ਹੀ ਜਕੜਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਤੂੰ ਜਮਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਦੇਸ ਵਿਚ ਜਾਵੇਂਗਾ।੪। 
Now read a verification of the concept of going through various existences, it is on 769 Mehla 3

ਸਾਚੈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਬੁਝਾਇਆ ਪਤਿ ਰਾਖੈ ਸਚੁ ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮ ॥ ਸਚਾ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਭਾਉ ਸਚਾ ਹੈ ਸਚੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਈ ਰਾਮ ॥ ਸਾਚੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਈ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਕੋਈ ਗਰਭਿ ਨ ਜੂਨੀ ਵਾਸਾ ॥ ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਈ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਈ ਸਚਿ ਨਾਇ ਪਰਗਾਸਾ ॥ ਜਿਨੀ ਸਚੁ ਜਾਤਾ ਸੇ ਸਚੇ ਹੋਏ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਸਚੁ ਧਿਆਇਨਿ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਿਨ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਵਸਿਆ ਨਾ ਵੀਛੁੜਿ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਨਿ ॥੨॥ 
Sācẖai saṯgur sācẖ bujẖā▫i▫ā paṯ rākẖai sacẖ so▫ī rām. Sacẖā bẖojan bẖā▫o sacẖā hai sacẖai nām sukẖ ho▫ī rām. Sācẖai nām sukẖ ho▫ī marai na ko▫ī garabẖ na jūnī vāsā. Joṯī joṯ milā▫ī sacẖ samā▫ī sacẖ nā▫e pargāsā. Jinī sacẖ jāṯā se sacẖe ho▫e an▫ḏin sacẖ ḏẖi▫ā▫in. Nānak sacẖ nām jin hirḏai vasi▫ā nā vīcẖẖuṛ ḏukẖ pā▫in. ||2|| 

In Essence: Whom, the True Guru makes realized the Eternal Prabh, their honor is saved. Their true love for the Creator becomes their diet and they obtain peace. They obtain peace with the name of the Eternal Prabh, and they don’t die to go into existence because their light merges with the Eternal Prabh; His Name enlightens them. Those who have realized the Eternal Creator, get imbued with the Eternal One, and remain always meditated on Him. Nanak says that in whose hearts the Eternal Name abides, they never get separated from Him to bear pain again.

Separation from the Creator is certainly full of pains. Even being alive, who get imbued with Him, don’t die [death is deemed fearful for those who are attached to Maya]. They leave this body - house to be with Him; therefore, for them there is no “death”again. In other words, they do not enter into body – house that eventually crumbles; consequently, they will not go again through that coming and going.

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਰੂਪ ਗੁਰੂ ਨੇ ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨੂੰ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਗਿਆਨ ਦੇ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਲਾਜ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਆਪ ਰੱਖਦਾ ਹੈ। ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਚਰਨਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਅਟੱਲ ਪਿਆਰ ਉਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੀ ਆਤਮਕ ਖ਼ੁਰਾਕ ਬਣ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਹਰਿ-ਨਾਮ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਆਤਮਕ ਆਨੰਦ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਜਿਸ ਭੀ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨੂੰ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਵਿਚ ਆਤਮਕ ਆਨੰਦ ਲੱਭਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਕਦੇ ਆਤਮਕ ਮੌਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਹੇੜਦਾ, ਉਹ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਂਦਾ। (ਗੁਰੂ ਨੇ ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੀ) ਸੁਰਤਿ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਵਿਚ ਮਿਲਾ ਦਿੱਤੀ, ਉਹ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਵਿਚ ਲੀਨ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਹਰਿ-ਨਾਮ ਦੀ ਬਰਕਤਿ ਨਾਲ (ਉਸ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦਾ) ਚਾਨਣ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਮਨੁੱਖਾਂ ਨੇ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨਾਲ ਡੂੰਘੀ ਸਾਂਝ ਪਾ ਲਈ ਉਹ ਉਸੇ ਦਾ ਰੂਪ ਬਣ ਗਏ, ਉਹ ਹਰ ਵੇਲੇ ਉਸ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਦੇ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਮਨੁੱਖਾਂ ਦੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਵੱਸ ਪੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਫਿਰ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਚਰਨਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਵਿਛੁੜ ਕੇ ਦੁੱਖ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਾਂਦੇ।੨। 

In above Vaakas, two things are very clear: those, who through Guru, merge with the Creator, don’t die to take birth again.The second, because they don’t get separate from Him; consequently, there is no pain.

On 1289 SGGS First Nanak in very compact expression talks about stability of mind and a “full stop” to existences, please read carefully:

ਮਃ ੧ ॥ ਅਜਰੁ ਜਰੈ ਤ ਨਉ ਕੁਲ ਬੰਧੁ ॥ ਪੂਜੈ ਪ੍ਰਾਣ ਹੋਵੈ ਥਿਰੁ ਕੰਧੁ ॥ 
Mėhlā 1. Ajar jarai ṯa na▫o kul banḏẖ. Pūjai parāṇ hovai thir kanḏẖ.

In Essence: When one learns to control the uncontrollable mind [mercurial state of mind], all nine sensual organs become stable [they don’t drag the mind to many directions]. Then, through every breath one adores the Creator, and the body totally goes into stable state [free from vice].

ਜਦੋਂ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਮਨ ਦੀ ਉਸ ਅਵਸਥਾ ਤੇ ਕਾਬੂ ਪਾ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਤੇ ਕਾਬੂ ਪਾਣਾ ਔਖਾ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ (ਭਾਵ, ਜਦੋਂ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਮਨ ਨੂੰ ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਡਿੱਗਣ ਤੋਂ ਰੋਕ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ), ਜਦੋਂ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਸੁਆਸ ਸੁਆਸ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ ਸਿਮਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਇਸ ਦੇ ਨੌ ਹੀ (ਕਰਮ ਤੇ ਗਿਆਨ) ਇੰਦ੍ਰੇ ਜਾਇਜ਼ ਹੱਦ ਵਿਚ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਇਸ ਦਾ ਸਰੀਰ ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਵਲੋਂ ਅਡੋਲ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। 

ਕਹਾਂ ਤੇ ਆਇਆ ਕਹਾਂ ਏਹੁ ਜਾਣੁ ॥ ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਤ ਰਹੈ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥ ਹੁਕਮੈ ਬੂਝੈ ਤਤੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ॥ ਇਹੁ ਪਰਸਾਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੇ ਜਾਣੈ ॥ 
Kahāŉ ṯe ā▫i▫ā kahāŉ ehu jāṇ. Jīvaṯ maraṯ rahai parvāṇ. Hukmai būjẖai ṯaṯ pacẖẖāṇai. Ih parsāḏ gurū ṯe jāṇai. 
In Essence: [idea continues, once the mind gets imbued with the Creator, whole situation is changed] from where it has come and to where it has to go? [Through a question Guru explains: everything comes to an end, the coming, and the going doesn’t remain active then] A person is accepted by the Creator, when he or she lives being detached. [As stated above, when uncontrollable mind is stilled, it remains fixed on the Creator] Only the one, who understands His Ordinance, can know Him; however, this understanding comes through Guru’s blessings.

In the next Vaakas, Guru very clearly states that it is the “self – conceit” that causes the mortal to get caught into this cycle of coming and going; when it is eradicated, “going into existences” stops.

ਕਿੱਥੋਂ ਆਇਆ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਕਿੱਥੇ ਇਸ ਨੇ ਜਾਣਾ ਹੈ? (ਭਾਵ, ਇਸ ਦਾ 'ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦਾ ਚੱਕਰ' ਮਿਟ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ), ਜੀਵਤ-ਭਾਵ (ਭਾਵ, ਨਫ਼ਸਾਨੀ ਖ਼ਾਹਸ਼ਾਂ) ਤੋਂ ਮਰ ਕੇ (ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਰ ਤੇ) ਪ੍ਰਵਾਨ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਤਦੋਂ ਜੀਵ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਰਜ਼ਾ ਨੂੰ ਸਮਝ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਅਸਲੀਅਤ ਨੂੰ ਪਛਾਣ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ-ਇਹ ਮਿਹਰ ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੋਂ ਮਿਲਦੀ ਹੈ। 

ਹੋਂਦਾ ਫੜੀਅਗੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਾਣੁ ॥ ਨਾ ਹਉ ਨਾ ਮੈ ਜੂਨੀ ਪਾਣੁ ॥੨॥ 
Hoŉḏā faṛī▫ag Nānak jāṇ. Nā ha▫o nā mai jūnī pāṇ. ||2|| 

In Essence: Nanak says that it must be understood that as long as one’s “conceit/I – force” exists, one remains bound [to Maya, consequently, coming and going goes on]. When there is no “conceit/I – force,” there is no “coming and going”.
The same idea is explicitly made clear by Fifth Nanak on 278 SGGS

ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਜਾਨੈ ਮੁਝ ਤੇ ਕਛੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਤਬ ਇਸ ਕਉ ਸੁਖੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਜਬ ਇਹ ਜਾਨੈ ਮੈ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਰਤਾ ॥ ਤਬ ਲਗੁ ਗਰਭ ਜੋਨਿ ਮਹਿ ਫਿਰਤਾ ॥
Jab lag jānai mujẖ ṯe kacẖẖ ho▫e. Ŧab is ka▫o sukẖ nāhī ko▫e. Jab ih jānai mai kicẖẖ karṯā. Ŧab lag garabẖ jon mėh firṯā.

In Essence: As long as the mortal thinks that he or she can do something, he or she doesn’t get peace. When he or she believes that it is him/her who is the doer of everything [dominance of conceit], he or she keeps wandering into existences.

As stated earlier, it is the conceit that keeps the human beings into a cycle of death and birth; once it is eradicated through Guru, this cycle stops. On 330 SGGS, Guru applauds those who get attached with the Creator and get out of this cycle of existences:

ਪਉੜੀ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਸੋਭਾ ਕਿਆ ਗਣੀ ਜਿਨੀ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਲਧਾ ॥ ਸਾਧਾ ਸਰਣੀ ਜੋ ਪਵੈ ਸੋ ਛੁਟੈ ਬਧਾ ॥ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀਐ ਜੋਨਿ ਗਰਭਿ ਨ ਦਧਾ
Pa▫oṛī. Ŧin kī sobẖā ki▫ā gaṇī jinī har har laḏẖā. Sāḏẖā sarṇī jo pavai so cẖẖutai baḏẖā. Guṇ gāvai abināsī▫ai jon garabẖ na ḏaḏẖā

In Essence: It is not possible to express the glory of those persons who have realized the Creator. Those who seek the refuge of His Devotees [who have realized Him], get liberated from all bonds because they only sing the virtues of Imperishable Prabh, and do not get burnt though existences.

Again going through existences is deemed as painful process as getting burnt.

ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ (ਗੁਰਮੁਖਾਂ) ਨੇ ਰੱਬ ਨੂੰ ਲੱਭ ਲਿਆ ਹੈ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਬਿਆਨ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀਤੀ ਜਾ ਸਕਦੀ, ਜੋ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਾਂ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਰਨ ਆਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਉਹ ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਬੰਧਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਬੱਝਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਮੁਕਤ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਭਾਵ, ਉਸ ਦੇ ਮਾਇਕ ਬੰਧਨ ਟੁੱਟ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ), ਉਹ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਪੈ ਪੈ ਕੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੜਦਾ,

On 598 SGGS, First Nanak stresses that through True Guru, a person is saved from the cycle of existences, please read on:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬੰਧਨ ਤੋੜਿ ਨਿਰਾਰੇ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਗਰਭ ਮਝਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਗਿਆਨ ਰਤਨੁ ਪਰਗਾਸਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ॥੪॥੮॥ 
Saṯgur banḏẖan ṯoṛ nirāre bahuṛ na garabẖ majẖārī jī▫o. Nānak gi▫ān raṯan pargāsi▫ā har man vasi▫ā nirankārī jī▫o. ||4||8|| 

In Essence: Whose bonds True Guru shatters, they are set free from Maya – influences and do not enter into a womb again. Nanak says in whose heart Guru’s jewel of Divine – knowledge is manifested, the Formless Creator abides in their minds.

ਹੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ! ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਬੰਧਨ ਤੋੜ ਕੇ ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਬੰਦਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਤੂੰ ਮਾਇਆ ਤੋਂ ਨਿਰਲੇਪ ਕਰ ਦੇਂਦਾ ਹੈਂ, ਉਹ ਮੁੜ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਂਦਾ। ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! (ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਨਾਲ ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ) ਗਿਆਨ ਦਾ ਰਤਨ ਚਮਕ ਪੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਹਰੀ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ (ਆਪ) ਆ ਵੱਸਦਾ ਹੈ।੪।੮। 

On 693 SGGS, Bhagat Namdev says a very interesting thing, please read on:

ਇਹ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਤੇ ਤਬ ਹੀ ਛੂਟਉ ਜਉ ਮਾਇਆ ਨਹ ਲਪਟਾਵਉ ॥ ਮਾਇਆ ਨਾਮੁ ਗਰਭ ਜੋਨਿ ਕਾ ਤਿਹ ਤਜਿ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪਾਵਉ ॥੩॥ 
Ih sansār ṯe ṯab hī cẖẖūta▫o ja▫o mā▫i▫ā nah laptāva▫o. Mā▫i▫ā nām garabẖ jon kā ṯih ṯaj ḏarsan pāva▫o. ||3||

In Essence: Only then I can get rid of bonds of this world when I do not get caught into Maya - love because it is the cause of womb – existences [Maya is another name of womb –existence which means due to it, womb – existence is there, also remember, the conceit is also Maya].

ਇਸ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਦੇ ਬੰਧਨਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਮੇਰੀ ਤਦੋਂ ਹੀ ਖ਼ਲਾਸੀ ਹੋ ਸਕਦੀ ਹੈ ਜੇ ਮੈਂ ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਵਿਚ ਨਾ ਫਸਾਂ; ਮਾਇਆ (ਦਾ ਮੋਹ) ਹੀ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਪੈਣ ਦਾ ਮੂਲ ਹੈ, ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਤਿਆਗ ਕੇ ਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਦੀਦਾਰ ਹੋ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ।੩। . 

In Gurbani, there is a concept of separation from the Creator and a union with Him; our existence is due to our separation from the Creator. To get out of separation is to seek union with Him. His union occurs due to mortal’s pure love for Him, but the separation exists due to the game of Maya – love. To put it different way, those persons who are into His love are set free from womb existences and they obtain union with the Creator; however; those who are into Maya - love, are subject to existences for the Maya realm.

When people lose virtues, they lose Him. As a result of it,without hesitating, they obtain lofty aim with treachery. Interestingly, that is the choice most of the worldly people often make in reality. it doesn’t bother them if they have any faith in the Creator or not, they take whatever faith they choose as per their own terms, and their chosen faith doesn’t bound them to virtues. Their gratification is to satisfy their conceit; however, all this worldly significant stuff, is literally useless for His devotees. They think that since it is all meaningless and doesn’t go with the soul as the death comes, then why they need to go through existences and remain separate from the Creator? This is the stand of His devotees. In such kind of thinking, lies their gratification. Their life is the Creator, their breath is the Creator and without Creator, nothing exists for them. Having that much love for Him, they go above all worldly thoughts and entanglements. In spiritual realms, they are victorious. When the goal of life is changed, the approach towards world will certainly change.

The People, who advocate that Guru Nanak Dev doesn’t believe in the incarnation, give Gurbani – quotes which state that no one knows where the soul goes after death. Let me give that kind of quote that states that it is not known where the soul goes; however, I must say that we should look at its context as well. It is on 752 - 753 SGGS, Mehla 1

ਹਉ ਨਾਹੀ ਤੂ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਤੁਧ ਹੀ ਸਾਜਿਆ ॥ ਆਪੇ ਥਾਪਿ ਉਥਾਪਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਨਿਵਾਜਿਆ ॥੫॥ 
Ha▫o nāhī ṯū hovėh ṯuḏẖ hī sāji▫ā. Āpe thāp uthāp sabaḏ nivāji▫ā. ||5|| 

In Essence: Oh Prabh! You are there where conceit [awareness of “I”] doesn’t exist, and all this [Like conceit/Maya/creation], you have created. You create and destroy, and through Guru Shabada, you exalt and elevate beings. [Here in meaning of this Guru Vaakas, I slightly differ from Dr S.S. Ji]

ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ! ਤੂੰ ਹੀ (ਸਾਰਾ ਜਗਤ) ਪੈਦਾ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ, ਤੂੰ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈਂ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਨਾਸ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈਂ। ਜਿਸ ਜੀਵ ਨੂੰ ਤੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਵਿਚ ਜੋੜ ਕੇ ਨਿਵਾਜਦਾ ਹੈਂ ਜਿਸ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਤੂੰ (ਪਰਗਟ) ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈਂ ਉਸ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ 'ਹਉਮੈ' ਨਹੀਂ ਰਹਿ ਜਾਂਦੀ।੫। 


ਦੇਹੀ ਭਸਮ ਰੁਲਾਇ ਨ ਜਾਪੀ ਕਹ ਗਇਆ ॥ ਆਪੇ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ਸੋ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਭਇਆ ॥੬॥ 
Ḏehī bẖasam rulā▫e na jāpī kah ga▫i▫ā. Āpe rahi▫ā samā▫e so vismāḏ bẖa▫i▫ā. ||6|| 
In Essence: Leaving the body to roll in the dust, where the soul/being goes is not known. It is a great wonder that Prabh pervades everywhere. [Expression is about His incomprehensible Ordinance and power to permeate in all]

ਜੀਵਾਤਮਾ (ਆਪਣੇ ਸਰੀਰ ਨੂੰ ਛੱਡ ਕੇ) ਸਰੀਰ ਨੂੰ ਮਿੱਟੀ ਵਿਚ ਰੁਲਾ ਕੇ, ਪਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਲੱਗਦਾ, ਕਿੱਥੇ ਚਲਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਅਚਰਜ ਕੌਤਕ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਹੈ। (ਪਰ ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ!) ਤੂੰ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਹਰ ਥਾਂ ਮੌਜੂਦ ਹੈਂ।੬।

Read the above Vaakas carefully. First it is stated that He is known only when conceit departs, He creates and destroys His creation and through Guru Shabada He exalts and elevates too; however, in the next Vaakas, Guru talks about the soul. After death, as the body is left to become dust, where the soul goes, it is unknown. Only Akalpurakh knows what occurs after death because it is not possible to explain what happens to every one. His pervading - power all over is amazing itself. How His ordinance works in context of a departed soul, is not surely known. However, if we read, Asa Dee Vaar, Guru Nanak Dev narrates in detail what happens after death to those who chose Maya over the Creator. In the above Vaakas, in a broad sense, he is saying that we just cannot express His ordinance. In other words, we just cannot say for surely how the Creator deals with every one after death. It doesn’t mean Guru is saying that the soul just doesn’t exist. In the last Vaakas of this Shabada Guru offers a prayer to have His grace to get attached to His Naam which brings peace. The stability of the mind and the soul while being alive and after death is sought in Gurbani repeatedly. Now let us look at Vaakas from Asa Dee Vaar [462] on 464 SGGS

ਪਉੜੀ ॥ ਆਪੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਭੋਗ ਭੋਗਿ ਕੈ ਹੋਇ ਭਸਮੜਿ ਭਉਰੁ ਸਿਧਾਇਆ ॥ ਵਡਾ ਹੋਆ ਦੁਨੀਦਾਰੁ ਗਲਿ ਸੰਗਲੁ ਘਤਿ ਚਲਾਇਆ ॥ ਅਗੈ ਕਰਣੀ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਵਾਚੀਐ ਬਹਿ ਲੇਖਾ ਕਰਿ ਸਮਝਾਇਆ ॥ ਥਾਉ ਨ ਹੋਵੀ ਪਉਦੀਈ ਹੁਣਿ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਕਿਆ ਰੂਆਇਆ ॥ ਮਨਿ ਅੰਧੈ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥੩॥ 
Pa▫oṛī. Āpīnĥai bẖog bẖog kai ho▫e bẖasmaṛ bẖa▫ur siḏẖā▫i▫ā. vadā ho▫ā ḏunīḏār gal sangal gẖaṯ cẖalā▫i▫ā. Agai karṇī kīraṯ vācẖī▫ai bahi lekẖā kar samjẖā▫i▫ā. Thā▫o na hovī pa▫uḏī▫ī huṇ suṇī▫ai ki▫ā rū▫ā▫i▫ā. Man anḏẖai janam gavā▫i▫ā. ||3|| 

In Essence: When the soul goes away, after having enjoyed revelment, the body becomes heap of ashes. When the mortal dies, the restrained soul is led away [for justice]. The soul’s account of good and bad deeds is explained. The faulty one [phony] gets no place [of stability], and there the bewailing of the soul is not cared about. Thus, the blind (in Maya) mortal wastes his life.

To understand above stanza, we must look at the second stanza of Asa Dee Vaar as well, here it is:

ਪਉੜੀ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਜੀਅ ਉਪਾਇ ਕੈ ਲਿਖਿ ਨਾਵੈ ਧਰਮੁ ਬਹਾਲਿਆ ॥ ਓਥੈ ਸਚੇ ਹੀ ਸਚਿ ਨਿਬੜੈ ਚੁਣਿ ਵਖਿ ਕਢੇ ਜਜਮਾਲਿਆ ॥ ਥਾਉ ਨ ਪਾਇਨਿ ਕੂੜਿਆਰ ਮੁਹ ਕਾਲ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਦੋਜਕਿ ਚਾਲਿਆ ॥ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਇ ਰਤੇ ਸੇ ਜਿਣਿ ਗਏ ਹਾਰਿ ਗਏ ਸਿ ਠਗਣ ਵਾਲਿਆ ॥ ਲਿਖਿ ਨਾਵੈ ਧਰਮੁ ਬਹਾਲਿਆ ॥੨॥ 
Pa▫oṛī. Nānak jī▫a upā▫e kai likẖ nāvai ḏẖaram bahāli▫ā. Othai sacẖe hī sacẖ nibṛai cẖuṇ vakẖ kadẖe jajmāli▫ā. Thā▫o na pā▫in kūṛi▫ār muh kālĥai ḏojak cẖāli▫ā. Ŧerai nā▫e raṯe se jiṇ ga▫e hār ga▫e sė ṯẖagaṇ vāli▫ā. Likẖ nāvai ḏẖaram bahāli▫ā. ||2|| 

In Essence: After creating beings, they are made subject to Dharma - judgment. Under that, based on the truth, decision is taken and faulty ones are taken out, and they get no place [of stability]; they get dishonored through His justice, and go through miseries. Who are absorbed in your Name oh Prabh! They pass [that test], the cheaters meet the defeat. Thus Almighty has established the Justice system.

What is this all talk about justice? Indeed, there is His justice established [stanza 2]. It is stated in very simple language that after death the soul is taken to have justice as per the deeds it has done through the given body, and without caring of the bewailing of the soul, justice is served. What kind of justice, Guru doesn’t specify that save for hinting about bad time; it is again left to Him because it is His realm. Now talking about the incarnation, why Guru Nanak Dev is saying all that stuff which occurs after death? Why he has to go into so much detail about what occurs after death? As stated earlier, there are some people who say that Gurus and Bhagatas didn’t want to get into controversy about all this so they kept giving references about the incarnation. Wait a minute, where is the proof of this assumption? We all know that in their Bani, they openly question many prevailed concepts and beliefs without caring about the controversies or anger of other people with opposite views, then, why only in case of “incarnation” they should become hesitant. In reality, they have a concept of the Creator, His Ordinance and a path that leads to merge with the Creator; they believe that there are those who are into Maya, and He keeps them into Maya through various existences; there are those who are into His love, He takes them out of this cycle to keep them with Him. How it occurs, they keep explaining through various Shabadas.

If the concept of incarnation is taken out of Gurbani, how the importance of “Naam – Simran” can be defined? In Gurbani, the “Naam – Simran” is done solely to have His grace to get united with Him and not to get into a womb again. As a matter of fact, Sikhi is not designed to satisfy scientific minds; it is all about experience of the Guru who envisions the Creator, and enables the followers to envision Him certainly within and out [If the followers sincerely follow the Guru].

Remaining in Maya - love leads to various existences. Once it is abandoned, the Creator is envisioned. If He is envisioned, interest in Maya goes away; when interest in Maya is gone, going into existence stops.

Systematically Guru Nanak Dev expresses this whole concept of His path on 1030 SGGS

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਗੁਰ ਬਚਨੀ ਬੋਲਹੁ ॥ ਸੰਤ ਸਭਾ ਮਹਿ ਇਹੁ ਰਸੁ ਟੋਲਹੁ ॥ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਖੋਜਿ ਲਹਹੁ ਘਰੁ ਅਪਨਾ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਗਰਭ ਮਝਾਰਾ ਹੇ ॥੪॥ 
Rām nām gur bacẖnī bolhu. Sanṯ sabẖā mėh ih ras tolahu. Gurmaṯ kẖoj lahhu gẖar apnā bahuṛ na garabẖ majẖārā he. ||4|| 

In Essence: Utter the Name of all pervading Creator through Guru Shabada; find His Name – nectar in the company of Saints. Find your real place [with our origin, the Creator] through Guru - guidance and you will not caste into a womb again. [In the end a hint is given about stability of the soul]

(ਹੇ ਭਾਈ!) ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਦੀ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰੋ (ਆਤਮਕ ਆਨੰਦ ਮਿਲੇਗਾ, ਪਰ ਇਹ ਆਨੰਦ ਸਾਧ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਿਚ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ) ਸਾਧ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਿਚ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਇਸ ਆਨੰਦ ਦੀ ਭਾਲ ਕਰੋ। ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਮਤਿ ਤੇ ਤੁਰ ਕੇ ਆਪਣਾ ਉਹ ਆਤਮਕ ਟਿਕਾਣਾ ਲੱਭੋ ਜਿਥੇ ਪਹੁੰਚ ਕੇ ਮੁੜ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਨਾਹ ਪੈਣਾ ਪਏ।੪। 

Gurmat revolves around this concept which is based on the idea of suffering through bonds of Maya and going through existences; it also gives a solution to end both kinds of sufferings --- Maya bonds and various existences. In above Vaakas, in a nut shell, Guru Nanak Dev has explained his path and the goal of life. Please remember that he refers here to incarnation also because that is a part of his ideology. Why it is repeatedly said that nothing goes with us, there is a valid reason behind that, please read on 191SGGS Mehla 5:

ਸਾਸਿ ਸਾਸਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਮਨਹਿ ਸਮਾਲੇ ॥ ਸੋ ਧਨੁ ਸੰਚਹੁ ਜੋ ਚਾਲੈ ਨਾਲੇ ॥੩॥ 
Sās sās parabẖ manėh samāle. So ḏẖan sancẖahu jo cẖālai nāle. ||3|| 

In Essence: With every breath, keep Prabh in the heart, gather the wealth [the wealth of Naam] that goes with you.

Where His Name goes with the soul? 

(ਹੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ!) ਹਰੇਕ ਸਾਹ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਸਾਂਭ ਰੱਖ। ਉਹ (ਨਾਮ-) ਧਨ ਇਕੱਠਾ ਕਰ ਜੇਹੜਾ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਲ ਸਾਥ ਕਰੇ।੩। 

Above, it is stated clearly that this worldly wealth doesn’t go with us, we see that. How His Name goes with us? Where we go? If there is no incarnation, what Guru ji is talking about here? Isn’t all this about after death scenario?

In Anand Sahib, in very simple way, Guru states that nobody goes with the soul as it departs but Guru –teachings and love of Akalpurakh: On 918 Mehla 3

ਏ ਮਨ ਪਿਆਰਿਆ ਤੂ ਸਦਾ ਸਚੁ ਸਮਾਲੇ ॥ ਏਹੁ ਕੁਟੰਬੁ ਤੂ ਜਿ ਦੇਖਦਾ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਲੇ ॥ ਸਾਥਿ ਤੇਰੈ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਨਾਲਿ ਕਿਉ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਈਐ ॥ ਐਸਾ ਕੰਮੁ ਮੂਲੇ ਨ ਕੀਚੈ ਜਿਤੁ ਅੰਤਿ ਪਛੋਤਾਈਐ ॥ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਕਾ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਸੁਣਿ ਤੂ ਹੋਵੈ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਲੇ ॥ ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਮਨ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਤੂ ਸਦਾ ਸਚੁ ਸਮਾਲੇ ॥੧੧॥ 
Ė man pi▫āri▫ā ṯū saḏā sacẖ samāle. Ėhu kutamb ṯū jė ḏekẖ▫ḏā cẖalai nāhī ṯerai nāle. Sāth ṯerai cẖalai nāhī ṯis nāl ki▫o cẖiṯ lā▫ī▫ai. Aisā kamm mūle na kīcẖai jiṯ anṯ pacẖẖoṯā▫ī▫ai. Saṯgurū kā upḏes suṇ ṯū hovai ṯerai nāle. Kahai Nānak man pi▫āre ṯū saḏā sacẖ samāle. ||11|| 


In Essence: Oh my mind! Always contemplate on the Eternal Almighty. This family you behold will not go with you (as you depart from here, it won't). When it will not depart along with you, why to get attached to it? Never do a deed upon which one has to repent eventually. Listen to True Guru Instruction, it shall be with you. Nanak says oh dear mind! Always meditate on the Eternal Akalpurakh.

Again my question is, where do we go after death? Why only Guru – teachings and His love go with us?

These answers can be found in the following Guru Vaakas on 62 SGGS Sri Raag, Mehla 1

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ ਚਿਤੇ ਦਿਸਹਿ ਧਉਲਹਰ ਬਗੇ ਬੰਕ ਦੁਆਰ ॥ ਕਰਿ ਮਨ ਖੁਸੀ ਉਸਾਰਿਆ ਦੂਜੈ ਹੇਤਿ ਪਿਆਰਿ ॥ ਅੰਦਰੁ ਖਾਲੀ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਬਿਨੁ ਢਹਿ ਢੇਰੀ ਤਨੁ ਛਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ 
Sirīrāg mėhlā 1. Cẖiṯe ḏisėh ḏẖa▫ulhar bage bank ḏu▫ār. Kar man kẖusī usāri▫ā ḏūjai heṯ pi▫ār. Anḏar kẖālī parem bin dẖėh dẖerī ṯan cẖẖār. ||1|| 

In Essence: The entire painted mansion with white - washed beautiful doors we see, were constructed to please the mind in Maya – love [It was all a game of Maya – love]. This body crumbles without the love of Akalpurakh.
Interestingly, both the beautiful mansions and body devoted to Maya crumble here [there is nothing in them that a departing soul can take with it], both don’t go with the soul; this idea is elaborated further in the next Guru Vaakas:

ਹੇ ਮਨ! ਜਿਵੇਂ ਬੜੇ ਚਾਉ ਨਾਲ ਉਸਾਰੇ ਹੋਏ ਚਿੱਤਰੇ ਹੋਏ ਮਹਲ-ਮਾੜੀਆਂ (ਸੁੰਦਰ) ਦਿੱਸਦੇ ਹਨ, ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਸਫ਼ੈਦ ਬਾਂਕੇ ਦਰਵਾਜ਼ੇ ਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ। (ਪਰ ਜੇ ਉਹ ਅੰਦਰੋਂ ਖ਼ਾਲੀ ਰਹਿਣ ਤਾਂ ਢਹਿ ਕੇ ਢੇਰੀ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ, ਤਿਵੇਂ ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਵਿਚ ਪਿਆਰ ਵਿਚ (ਇਹ ਸਰੀਰ) ਪਾਲੀਦਾ ਹੈ, ਪਰ ਜੇ ਹਿਰਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਤੋਂ ਸੱਖਣਾ ਹੈ, ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਹੈ, ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਸਰੀਰ ਢਹਿ ਕੇ ਢੇਰੀ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਵਿਅਰਥ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ)।੧। 

ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਤਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਸਾਥਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੋ ਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਿ ਕਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
Bẖā▫ī re ṯan ḏẖan sāth na ho▫e. Rām nām ḏẖan nirmalo gur ḏāṯ kare parabẖ so▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o. 

In Essence: Oh Brother! The body and the wealth do not accompany with anyone. The Name of All pervading Prabh is the only pure wealth which is gifted through Guru by Him. {Pause] [The word pure is used for His Name because unlike other wealth it goes with the soul, this is understood if the whole context is kept in the mind while reading these Guru Vaakas]


ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਇਹ ਸਰੀਰ ਇਹ ਧਨ (ਜਗਤ ਤੋਂ ਚਲਣ ਵੇਲੇ) ਨਾਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਨਿਭਦਾ। ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ (ਐਸਾ) ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਧਨ ਹੈ (ਜੋ ਸਦਾ ਨਾਲ ਨਿਭਦਾ ਹੈ, ਪਰ ਇਹ ਮਿਲਦਾ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਹੈ) ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਉਹ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾਤਿ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ।੧।ਰਹਾਉ। 


ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੋ ਜੇ ਦੇਵੈ ਦੇਵਣਹਾਰੁ ॥ ਆਗੈ ਪੂਛ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜਿਸੁ ਬੇਲੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਰਤਾਰੁ ॥ ਆਪਿ ਛਡਾਏ ਛੁਟੀਐ ਆਪੇ ਬਖਸਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੨॥
Rām nām ḏẖan nirmalo je ḏevai ḏevaṇhār. Āgai pūcẖẖ na hova▫ī jis belī gur karṯār. Āp cẖẖadā▫e cẖẖutī▫ai āpe bakẖsaṇhār. ||2|| 

In Essence: The Name of Almighty is pure; one gets it if the Giver gives. Whose friends are the Guru and Akalpurakh, is not questioned hereafter because the Creator Himself saves the mortal and forgives.

Why His Name is pure wealth? It is so because it goes with the soul, unlike the wealth and the body. What does mean by “ਆਗੈ Āgai/ hereafter, next? It is about after life time.

ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਧਨ ਹੈ (ਤਦੋਂ ਹੀ ਮਿਲਦਾ ਹੈ) ਜੇ ਦੇਣ ਦੇ ਸਮਰੱਥ ਹਰੀ ਆਪ ਦੇਵੇ। (ਨਾਮ-ਧਨ ਹਾਸਲ ਕਰਨ ਵਿਚ) ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦਾ ਸਹਾਈ ਗੁਰੂ ਆਪ ਬਣੇ, ਕਰਤਾਰ ਆਪ ਬਣੇ, ਪਰਲੋਕ ਵਿਚ ਉਸ ਉੱਤੇ ਕੋਈ ਇਤਰਾਜ਼ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ। ਪਰ ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਤੋਂ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਬਚਾਏ ਤਾਂ ਬਚ ਸਕੀਦਾ ਹੈ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ਸ਼ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਹੈ।੨। 

Please note it down, first Guru states about the big things created in the love of Maya and then advises his followers that without His love everything crumbles {because of being perishable]. His Name only is pure wealth. The mortal who is lucky to have friendship [exceedingly being close] of Guru and the Creator, is free from any questioning to be occurred hereafter because the Creator Himself saves and forgives such mortal. This thought can become easier to understand if we recall the second and the third stanzas of Asa Dee Var quoted above in which Guru Nanak Dev says that one’s deeds are subject to His justice. Once, one gets involved in Him through Guru and ignore the Maya - love, this “hereafter – questioning” is eliminated. Now look at another Guru Vaakas to understand how after death, Maya – lovers appear looted; contrarily, Prabh - lovers loose nothing but gain by having His Name with them; these Vaakas are on 756 SGGS Mehla 3

ਸੁਇਨਾ ਰੁਪਾ ਪਾਪ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਸੰਚੀਐ ਚਲੈ ਨ ਚਲਦਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਨਾਲਿ ਨ ਚਲਸੀ ਸਭ ਮੁਠੀ ਜਮਕਾਲਿ ॥੨੭॥ 
Su▫inā rupā pāp kar kar sancẖī▫ai cẖalai na cẖalḏi▫ā nāl. viṇ nāvai nāl na cẖalsī sabẖ muṯẖī jamkāl. ||27|| 

In Essence: Gold and Silver [wealth] are gathered by committing sins; however, they don’t go with [when one dies]. Except the Name of Akalpurakh, nothing goes with the mortals, all are plundered by death.

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! (ਕਈ ਕਿਸਮ ਦੇ) ਪਾਪ ਕਰ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਸੋਨਾ ਚਾਂਦੀ (ਆਦਿਕ ਧਨ) ਇਕੱਠਾ ਕਰੀਦਾ ਹੈ, ਪਰ (ਜਗਤ ਤੋਂ) ਤੁਰਨ ਵੇਲੇ (ਉਹ ਧਨ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੇ) ਨਾਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਂਦਾ। ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਹੋਰ ਕੋਈ ਭੀ ਚੀਜ਼ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਵੇਗੀ। ਨਾਮ ਤੋਂ ਸੁੰਞੀ ਸਾਰੀ ਲੁਕਾਈ ਆਤਮਕ ਮੌਤ ਦੀ ਹੱਥੀ ਲੁੱਟੀ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ (ਆਪਣਾ ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਲੁਟਾ ਬੈਠਦੀ ਹੈ)।੨੭।

ਮਨ ਕਾ ਤੋਸਾ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੈ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਰਖਹੁ ਸਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਲਿ ॥ ਏਹੁ ਖਰਚੁ ਅਖੁਟੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਿਬਹੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੨੮॥ 
Man kā ṯosā har nām hai hirḏai rakẖahu samĥāl. Ėhu kẖaracẖ akẖut hai gurmukẖ nibhai nāl. ||28|| 

In Essence: For the journey, Prabh’s Name is real stock, hold on to it carefully. This stock is inexhaustible and it goes a long way with The Guru – followers.

In the above Vaakas, Guru leaves no doubt about what is the need of the soul after death. The rationality cannot help to comprehend the experienced fact.

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੇ ਮਨ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ (ਜੀਵਨ-ਸਫ਼ਰ ਦਾ) ਖ਼ਰਚ ਹੈ। ਇਸ ਸਫ਼ਰ-ਖ਼ਰਚ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਸਾਂਭ ਕੇ ਰੱਖੋ। ਇਹ ਖ਼ਰਚ ਕਦੇ ਮੁੱਕਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈ। ਜੇਹੜਾ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਦੱਸੇ ਰਸਤੇ ਉਤੇ ਤੁਰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ ਇਹ ਸਦਾ ਲਈ ਸਾਥ ਬਣਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।੨੮। 

Why those people who gather wealth get robbed off it by the death? Why Guru – followers, who hold on to His Name, are not affected in this regard when they also face the death? The answer is very simple: when Maya – lovers depart, they leave behind everything they gathered by committing so many sins; however, Guru - followers lose nothing when they depart because they don’t gather or get attached to it to worry about it, but they take His Name with them, and thus His Name helps them in the end too. Again, “after death – talk” is done here. In Gurmat, in fact, the concept of incarnation is stressed. It is repeatedly said that those who do not hold on to His Name are subject to cycle of birth and death. It is impossible to deny it through guessed explanations. On 761 – 762 SGGS, Mehla 5, reasons are given for this incarnation belief:

ਸੋਧਤ ਸੋਧਤ ਸੋਧਿ ਤਤੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿਆ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਨਾਹਿ ਸਰਪਰ ਹਾਰਿਆ ॥੪॥ 
Soḏẖaṯ soḏẖaṯ soḏẖ ṯaṯ bīcẖāri▫ā. Nām binā sukẖ nāhi sarpar hāri▫ā. ||4||

In Essence: By repeatedly analyzing it, I have understood this fact that without Prabh’s Name, there is no peace but a sure defeat.

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਚੰਗੀ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਪੜਤਾਲ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਨਿਰਨਾ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਅਸੀਂ ਇਸ ਅਸਲੀਅਤ ਉਤੇ ਪਹੁੰਚੇ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਆਤਮਕ ਆਨੰਦ ਨਹੀਂ ਮਿਲ ਸਕਦਾ। ਨਾਮ ਤੋਂ ਵਾਂਜੇ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਜ਼ਰੂਰ (ਮਨੁੱਖਾ ਜਨਮ ਦੀ ਬਾਜ਼ੀ) ਹਾਰ ਕੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ।੪।


ਆਵਹਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਮਰਿ ਮਰਿ ਜਨਮਤੇ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਬੂਝੇ ਸਭੁ ਵਾਦਿ ਜੋਨੀ ਭਰਮਤੇ ॥੫॥ 
Āvahi jāhi anek mar mar janmaṯe. Bin būjẖe sabẖ vāḏ jonī bẖarmaṯe. ||5||

In Essence: Many come and go and repeatedly die to be born again. Without knowing the Creator, all their efforts are useless; consequently, they wander through existences.

(ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਤੋਂ ਖੁੰਝ ਕੇ) ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ (ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ) ਜੰਮਦੇ ਹਨ ਮਰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਆਤਮਕ ਮੌਤ ਸਹੇੜ ਸਹੇੜ ਕੇ ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਜਨਮ ਲੈਂਦੇ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ। (ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦੀ) ਸੂਝ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਸਾਰਾ ਹੀ ਉੱਦਮ ਵਿਅਰਥ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਭਟਕਦੇ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ।੫। 


By all means, what Guru says here cannot be verified with any rational measure, but being His followers, we must believe what he says if we want to be successful in pursuing Guru – path. Being Sikhs, If rationality still bothers us, it is obvious that our rationality is our Guru not Guru Nanak dev. If incarnation is not a part of Sikhi, then why in Gurbani, inevitable - questioning after death on the deeds is refereed to? If this wealth and body do not go with us, why His Name and Guru – teachings said to go with us? Where we go with His Name? Why so much stress is given on “after – death”? Why detachment to Maya is mandatory? Why Guru also talks about a state of mind where acknowledgment of the genders disappears [685 SGGS Mehla 1]? Why Guru stresses on “luck”? In rationality, there is no luck but coincidence. In Gurbani, destiny is repeatedly referred. Besides, His grace and meeting of the Guru, are left solely on “luck.”

There is no proof in Sri Guru Granth Sahib where Guru speaks against the concept of incarnation; instead, Guru verifies it repeatedly. Those people who truly want to follow The Guru, must understand this fact once for all that without attaching to Him, our souls do not get stability [That is what Guru says repeatedly]. Those who are denial about this concept of incarnation, let them enjoy the swings of their own coined philosophy. Remember the following Guru Vaakas on 40 SGGS Mehla 4

ਬਿਨੁ ਭਾਗਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਨਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਘਰਿ ਬੈਠਿਆ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਨਿਤ ਪਾਸਿ ॥ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਅਗਿਆਨ ਦੁਖੁ ਭਰਮੁ ਹੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਪੜਦਾ ਦੂਰਿ ਪਈਆਸਿ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭੇਟੇ ਕੰਚਨੁ ਨਾ ਥੀਐ ਮਨਮੁਖੁ ਲੋਹੁ ਬੂਡਾ ਬੇੜੀ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੩॥ 
Bin bẖāgā saṯgur nā milai gẖar baiṯẖi▫ā nikat niṯ pās. Anṯar agi▫ān ḏukẖ bẖaram hai vicẖ paṛ▫ḏā ḏūr pa▫ī▫ās. Bin saṯgur bẖete kancẖan nā thī▫ai manmukẖ lohu būdā beṛī pās. ||3|| 

In Essence: Without luck, True Guru is not met even if one sits daily near Guru in the house. [Why? The answer follows]. Because within is ignorance and doubts, a curtain is drawn, and the Creator appears far away. Without meeting [truly meeting means following True Guru without a doubt] True Guru, the mortal doesn’t become gold [doesn’t obtain virtues]. Without following Guru, like the iron, the mortal drowns even though the Guru - boat is close by.[It is matter of following the True Guru sincerely]

ਚੰਗੀ ਕਿਸਮਤਿ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਹੀਂ ਮਿਲਦਾ (ਤੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਮਿਲਾਪ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ, ਭਾਵੇਂ) ਸਾਡੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਬੈਠਾ ਹਰ ਵੇਲੇ ਸਾਡੇ ਨੇੜੇ ਹੈ, ਸਾਡੇ ਕੋਲ ਹੈ। ਜਿਸ ਜੀਵ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਅਗਿਆਨਤਾ (ਦੇ ਹਨੇਰੇ) ਦਾ ਦੁੱਖ ਟਿਕਿਆ ਰਹੇ, ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਮਾਇਆ ਦੀ ਭਟਕਣੀ ਲੱਗੀ ਰਹੇ ਉਸ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਦਾ ਤੇ ਭਟਕਣਾ ਦਾ ਪਰਦਾ ਬਣਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਉਸ ਦੀ ਜਿੰਦ ਅੰਦਰ-ਵੱਸਦੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਦੂਰ ਪਈ ਰਹਿੰਦੀ ਹੈ। ਆਪਣੇ ਮਨ ਦੇ ਪਿੱਛੇ ਤੁਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਮਨੁੱਖ (ਮਾਨੋ) ਲੋਹਾ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਗੁਰੂ-ਪਾਰਸ ਨੂੰ ਮਿਲਣ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਸੋਨਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਬਣ ਸਕਦਾ, ਗੁਰੂ-ਬੇੜੀ ਉਸ ਮਨਮੁਖ-ਲੋਹੇ ਦੇ ਪਾਸ ਹੀ ਹੈ, ਪਰ ਉਹ (ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਨਦੀ ਵਿਚ ਹੀ) ਡੁੱਬਦਾ ਹੈ।੩।

Sikhi s not about science, Sikhi is about a spiritual experience with the Creator. It is designed to be one with the Creator from whom we all emanate. It is explained what is the cause of this separation, and it is also explained how one gets out of Creator’s staged show. Whom He keeps in the show are those who are totally lost in Maya through various existences; even while following Guru they never get rid of their own thinking which is deeply cemented in their intellectually flavored conceit. Those whom He takes out of this show with His grace are the ones who, even being very much present in His Maya Show, remain detached to it by rejecting its influences and giving up their own thoughts. Those who want to convince the scientists regarding Sikhi must understand that no religion or a faith or the concept of the Creator is based on scientific standard anyway. It is a Message Guru Nanak Dev directly received from the Creator by experiencing Him [Majh Kee Vaar Stanza 27 150 SGGS] and has passed on to others.

A dear friend of mine wrote to me lately: Gurbani is not for preaching but experiencing. Indeed, it is only for experiencing.

Punjabi interpretation is by Dr Sahib Singh Ji

G Singh
From the Book "Guru Message" under publication.
Posted by G.Singh


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## a.mother (Aug 26, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> 01-ARSH-)1 ji
> 
> You don't sound like you are 15 at all. What are you going to do with that big brain? Never let it rust. Just the fact that you posted the emoticon of the two fencing emoticons shows you can see that the topic of reincarnation is rich for discussion.



I am agree with you Naraynjot Kaur ji.


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## baljeet_singh (Aug 26, 2010)

dalbirk ji
I don't quite have enough time to read the entire article you posted, I have only read a quarter of it and the chances of me understanding it all are very slim. I get what the writer is saying with all of the hyper-rational stuff, but I don't think the person has quite understood where most of the people are coming from. They don't believe that reincarnation is wrong because they wish to make religion scientific or something, but quite frankily is there no possibility whatsoever that the reason there are references to reincarnation is because it would help Hindus to relate to something. Reincarnation may have been used because it refers to ideas which are most easily understood through the idea of reincarnation, without necessarily claiming reincarnation to be the truth. I've read quotes from the Guru Granth Sahib Ji that even refer to hell, yet for some reason we don't believe in hell (in the sense of it being a place for evil people to go to) yet we believe in the references to reincarnation? 



dalbirk said:


> Some hyper – rational people say that the talk about incarnation is there because Gurus and Bhagatas didn’t want to get into a controversy openly, so they used it as metaphors or references to established thoughts [It is totally laughable idea though]. I wonder what are they are thinking! In fact, all enlightened ones have been into controversy due to their different approach towards life than the rest of the population; History verifies it.



I don't think the Guru's referred to reincarnation to prevent offense to people as claimed in the article, but I do think it was used to deal with the issues of that time, the issues being that the Hindu people who read the Guru Granth Sahib Ji would have found it easier to understand the idea if there are references to things that are familiar to them.


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## dalbirk (Aug 27, 2010)

Baljeet Singh Ji ,
       Some of the beliefs are common in all of the Indic( Hinduism , Jianism , Buddhism, Sikhism ) religions which are as follows :
Reincarnation
Like Hinduism Sikhims believes in the transmigration of the soul. There are countless cycles of births and deaths. One only breaks this cycle when they achieve mukhti (merger with God)

Karma
Karma regulates the reincarnation and transmigration of the soul, Sikhism links Karma with the doctrine of Grace.

"Mortals obtain a human body as a result of good deeds but he reaches the gate of salvation with God's kind grace." (Guru Nanak, Japji)

Maya
The world is just an illusion and some get enchanted with this illusion and forget God.

http://www.searchsikhism.com/hind21.html

Not only Hindus and Sikhs believe in transmigration but in old times Egyptians and Greeks also believed in this. Druid Padres of England and philosophers like Pythagoras and Empedocles also believed in transmigration.
            If you have any fears of diluting of Sikh identity pls visit the following link by Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha Ji written in 1898 .
http://www.searchsikhism.com/hinduism.html


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## spnadmin (Aug 27, 2010)

dalbirk ji, baljeet ji, and other respected forum members

I am going to walk out on a big limb here and risk what many internet sites refer to as "the wrath of the panth." with my remarks.  But maybe not, because there may be a large sector of the panth who share my questions and concerns.

It is arguable that concepts like Maya, karma and reincarnation are identical across all dharmic faiths (Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, etc.). Yes there are similarities. But are they identical? I don't think they are. And what is missing from most discussions I have read is a careful and systematic analysis of how the are different.

Now also I have to express concern. When any discussion is proposed about reincarnation and karma in Sikhism, too often those who veer from commonly accepted interpretations of gurbani are described as making "manmukh" statements. Or they are described as yielding to the rational intellect and becoming slaves of "munn." Which is _ad hominem_ argument and not helpful for people who want a deep understanding of their path of Sikhi.

IMHO this discussion needs to continue because, within Sikhism there is no central body, as there is in many Christian faiths, that decide once and for all times what these concepts are supposed to mean for Sikhs. Thus we have many scholarly works, that are read by some but not all, and their authors draw different conclusions. And we have nothing like a consensual forum where various points can be considered all in one place and debated all in one place. Instead we have web sites and blogs where pronouncements are offered, and disagreement is not tolerated. Thus there is no real way of respecting the need for a shared discourse on these matters.


Now speaking personally - I have come within seconds of death on 2 occasions in my life, and am now at an age when death is not hypothetical but a very real and pressing reality. Still I am not convinced that the Sikh view of reincarnation is the same as the Hindu view. And I am not convinced that the tuks that are pulled from Sri Guru Granth Sahib to "prove"are being interpreted correctly. 

Often supporting tuaks are taken from the context of the larger shabad. And why should I or anyone else believe that Person X has the right meaning and Person Y is manmukh? As I said earlier these understandings are coming from far and wide--  from this blog and that web site and another e-journal --  and are written by people who are sincere and learned, but in the end they are expressing views that are not signed and sealed by authorities. And that is what is good about Sikhi. We are asked to contemplate and reconsider from the perspective of gurbani. There are no authorities to sign and seal. So reincarnation and karma are at rock bottom still open to debate. 

Mostly my fear is always that debate which is so central to our faith will be stymied. So I want to end by asking some questions - and any and all are free to think me stupid and dull if they will. it is OK.

1. How is the Hindu view of karma different from the Sikh view of karma (if they are different)?

2. How is the Hindu view of reincarnation different from the Sikh view of reincarnation (if they are different)? 

3. Is belief in reincarnation central to the practice of Sikhism? If it is central, then why so?

4. Karma and reincarnation in the Manusmriti clearly cement the ideas of karma and rebirth within the caste system. This makes the caste system a path to spiritual evolution which requires many lifetimes. One cannot skip steps unless one achieves mukhti. Is this consistent with the teachings of Guru Nanak?

5. In Sikhi is it possible to "cleanse our karma" as it is in many branches of the Hindu path. Do we cleanse our karma through suffering, illness, disease and misfortune. For example, will small-pox and its disfigurement remove the samskars that stick to us from former lives and speed our passage to a higher spiritual stage? Does Sikhism adhere to this view?

6. Do children who are victims of war and famine, or women who are victims of horrific disfigurement at the hands of their husbands, suffer because of previous karmas? Does their suffering clean them up according to gurmat?

7. Should Dalits be content with their condition because they have been blessed with an opportunity to learn the spiritual lessons of humility as their required spiritual state before they can move on? Did Guru Nanak agree that Dalits need to undergo spiritual transformations in this way? 

If these are not serious questions in the context of this discussion, Please forgive me. I am not trying to me either "intelligent" or frivolous.


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## Tejwant Singh (Aug 27, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> dalbirk ji, baljeet ji, and other respected forum members
> 
> I am going to walk out on a big limb here and risk what many internet sites refer to as "the wrath of the panth." with my remarks.  But maybe not, because there may be a large sector of the panth who share my questions and concerns.
> 
> ...



Narayanjot ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for this wonderful thought that you have shared with us. It  is really enlightening. Now, many readers know my view on reincarnation through many posts where the subject has been discussed. They can be found in this forum.

To put it more bluntly, the concept of reincarnation is just a belief that our Gurus did acknowledge its existence in the prevailing religions of that time, mainly Hinduism and Islam.But they also subtly rejected this concept for a Sikh, in Sikhi. Every Shabad that mentions reincarnation ends like this and I am only paraphrasing it. Anyone who follows the Sikhi path can get rid of this belief called reincarnation otherwise one keeps on wrestling in this mental mud.

As, reincarnation is nothing more  than a belief and can be gotten rid of through the understanding of Gurbani, then the Karams have also nothing to do with past lives as in other religions. We reap what we sow here in this  world. That is why there is nothing like Hell and Heaven in Sikhi which would be linked to Karams of the past lives.

Allow me to share with you how Sikhs take this, even in my own family because of the ingrained hindutva which our Gurus tried their best to get rid of from us.

About 2 years ago, my oldest sister visited me with her husband and stayed for 2 months as they usually do and we always have a blast because she  makes lovely achaars for us and other goodies.

During their last trip, I was told that my niece's son who is very young had epilepsy. The fact is that there  are 50 million people who suffer from the same and 125,000 people are diagnosed annually with Epilepsy in the US alone.

http://kidshealth.org/teen/diseases_conditions/brain_nervous/epilepsy.html
http://www.webmd.com/epilepsy/default.htm

So, the above is the reality that happens to peoples of all walks  of lives  and faiths.

I was taken aback when both my sister and my brother  in law told me matter of factly that, the kid is suffering because of their daughter's bad Karams in previous lives. This really shocked me because every time they come and visit us, we love  having Gurmat Vichaar. But this defeatist mentality sounded too ignorant for me to ignore.

It took me a week to make them understand through Gurbani verses that this was not the case because Ik Ong Kaar is not a punisher rather a lover and a forgiver.

I was also able to convince them that this event is not a tragedy but a gift as the kid has such a caring and loving mother who started having migraines because not only her parents, but her in laws and all others had the same mindset of the punishment due to some evils committed by my niece in her previous lives.

Eventually, I called her in front of  her parents and told her exactly what I had been able to tell her parents.  I call all my nieces as favourite ones because of the relationships we have been able to cultivate. Then the parents talked to her and told her that I was able to convince them via Gurbani about this concocted nonsense.

Luckily, with the help of medicine,time and in the change of mindset towards pragmatism, the boy is doing much better and my niece has no more migraines.

Thanks for allowing me to share my story.

Tejwant Singh.


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## spnadmin (Aug 27, 2010)

Tejwant ji

Your story is haunting and it is magnificent. Especially the end when you observe that children who are special in some way, be it epilepsy or mental retardation or autism or a physical impairment, are gifts to us. They help the rest of us find our godly center, where we can learn to be loving, supportive, and open to every particle of creation, even the particles that don't look quite right to us at the time. We are transformed by them.

I am no expert on karma or on reincarnation. Just wondering aloud how it could be that Guru Nanak, a relentless* teacher*, would teach that Ik Oan Kaar is Creative, Supportive and Nurturing always, except when karams are concerned. 

The idea of recycling through joon after joon , to cleanse our karmas and spiritually evolve, cannot be untangled from the caste system, as found in Manusmriti and the Ramayana. These two ideas of reincarnation and caste/varna are welded together. The same is not exactly true in Buddhism. And so I only ask, Does Sikhism have a different, unique view? Again, forgive me if I have insulted anyone.


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## Tejwant Singh (Aug 27, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Tejwant ji
> 
> Your story is haunting and it is magnificent. Especially the end when you observe that children who are special in some way, be it epilepsy or mental retardation or autism or a physical impairment, are gifts to us. They help the rest of us find our godly center, where we can learn to be loving, supportive, and open to every particle of creation, even the particles that don't look quite right to us at the time. We are transformed by them.
> 
> ...




Narayanjot ji,

Guru Fateh.

Questioning is part and parcel of Sikhi hence never offensive.

What I understand through Gurbani regarding Karams-deeds is what we call Works in Christianity.

The three rules of thumb that Guru Nanak created for us so that we can have a fruitful life are nothing but Karams.

Here are the 3 Karams that Guru Nanak emphasised and urged us to base our lives on:

1. Naam Japnah
2. Kirat Karni
3. Vand kei chaknah.

The above 3 Karams practiced  in our daily lives give  us the results and we reap their fruits  in this very life. They have nothing to do with our past and hence, past is not a hanger where our future is hanging on.

If our Karams are to breed negative energy in us rather than the positive one with the help of the above 3, then we reap the fruits of that negative energy.

The other example of the Karams is to learn how  to  lasso the 5 thieves- Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh and Hankaar. Once we learn through our Works how to lasso them, then we can find the sehaj- the Gurmat fulcrum within which is the result of  the Karams to be able to lasso these 5 thieves with the help of our tool box, SGGS, our only Guru. 

If we are not able to do that, then life is nothing but filled with upheavals. 

All this happens in this very life that we know, live and are aware of.

No one knows about anything else.

Regards and thanks for letting me think aloud.

Tejwant Singh


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## dalbirk (Aug 28, 2010)

Tejwant Ji ,
              I request you to kindly contact G Singh Ji on his blog 
http://gursoch.blogspot.com/
or contact by mail at gursoch@yahoo.com
 There are a number of schools of thought who are in no doubt regarding the acceptance of transmigration of human soul belief in Sikhism including Sikh Missionary College , Ludhiana ,Prof Sahib Singh , Giani Sant Singh Maskeen , Bhai Veer Singh , Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha , Giani Ditt Singh , Giani Pinderpal Singh , Bhai Randheer Singh & host lot of others . However the rejecting persons are all of recent origin post 1984  Kala Afghana , Spokesman Group , Inder Singh Ghagga all branded atheists in garb of Tat Gurmat Scholars mainly backed by Congress . The article of G Singh ji greatly helps to put all the doubts to rest regarding this subject .


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## dalbirk (Aug 28, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Tejwant ji
> 
> Your story is haunting and it is magnificent. Especially the end when you observe that children who are special in some way, be it epilepsy or mental retardation or autism or a physical impairment, are gifts to us. They help the rest of us find our godly center, where we can learn to be loving, supportive, and open to every particle of creation, even the particles that don't look quite right to us at the time. We are transformed by them.
> 
> ...


Narayanjot Ji ,
             The Hindu concept of Karma is defined as below 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_in_Hinduism
The concept of Karma in Sikhism is that a human birth , the comforts , miseries , riches , poverty , health , relatives are as a result of previous Karma but the basic difference from Hinduism is that God ( Waheguru ) is perfectly capable of eliminating the effects of previous Karma in one moment of Grace in Sikhism when a Sikh remembers Him with singlemindedness whereas as per various schools of Hinduism the fruits of Karma have to be borne by the  
soul there is no escaping from this .

The body is the field of karma in this age; whatever you plant, you shall harvest. (SGGS p78) and By the karma of past actions, the robe of this physical body is obtained. By His Grace, the Gate of Liberation is found. (SGGS p2)

In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, no one is interested in good karma, or Dharmic faith. (SGGS p161) and They alone are good, who are judged good at the Lord's Door. Those with bad karma can only sit and weep. (SGGS p15) and Burnt by desire, and bound by the karma of their past actions, they go round and round, like the ox at the mill press. ((2)) (SGGS p800) and The self-willed manmukhs create karma, and in the Court of the Lord, they receive their punishment. ((1)) (SGGS p33)

You unite me with Yourself, O True God. Through perfect good karma You are obtained. ((6)) (SGGS p112) and The many religious rituals, good deeds of karma and Dharmic worship - above all of these is the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ((2)) (SGGS p405) and In the field of actions and karma, plant the Lord's Name; this opportunity is so difficult to obtain! ((2)) (SGGS p812) and The Word of the Guru's Shabad eradicates the karma of millions of past actions. ((3)(1)) (SGGS p1195)


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## spnadmin (Aug 28, 2010)

dalbirk ji

Thank you for your kindness. I have read this passage from Wikipedia perhaps a dozen times. It is a beautiful passage. It does not answer my questions. Nor does it address the perplexities of popular Sikh beliefs as described on the web and elsewhere.

To be united with Waheguru does not require taking a new birth.

Our/my problem is that  we are already united with Waheguru but think and act as if we are not.

To speak the truth, I find that passage to be a poor explanation of what reincarnation might be and what the author might have said about reincarnation and karma in sikhi,

When authors, as in the Wikipedia article, write here is what Hindus think and here is what Sikhs think, they are not giving a thoughtful contrast, but repeating what they have read somewhere else, or personally believe. Tough questions are not asked about differences. And sometimes the ideas of karma and reincarnation in other dharmic faiths are not well explained either.

Forgive me if this is in any way demeaning your efforts to help with the discussion. My comments are not intended that way.


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## findingmyway (Aug 28, 2010)

This is a fascinating debate and I'm learning a lot! I would also like to add my 2 cents worth:




j_uk said:


> Dear reincarnation is one of there and been told by guruji in bani also its not the story that any body could change and its not add by hindusim it is a similarity betten the hindusim and sikhsim of reincarnation.I would ask you one quest think over it
> Say one child was born in rich family and at the same time other born in poor family
> After 1 min of there birth time the one who was born in rich family is already become millonare without doing any think
> The other child who was born in poor family was still poor
> ...



Why are you judging luck on material wealth? Isn't that maya? If the one in the rich family is abused or blinded by maya and therefore distracted from Waheguru but the child in the poor family is loved and has faith, which would you say was actually richer and luckier? Surely the luck is self created-what do you make out of your situation? How do you make things better and harness the opportunities given? Money doesn't buy happiness which takes me onto my next point:



Santokh Singh1989 said:


> I've been reading a great amount of  threads on here about this reincarnation topic and its seems like, for  the most part and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, that there are  2 general camps. Those who accept the general theory of karma and  reincarnation, and those who seem to completely obect to both. I've read  in a couple of places (please don't ask me to find quotes from people  as I've been reading all day now and my brain is a tad fried, that and  I've jumped around to so many different websites and  thread etc that I  can't remember everything) that some of the people that reject karma and  reincarnation say that we only go around once and that this is the only  chance. I've read others who also say that they don't believe in  reincarnation say that no matter what we're going to merge into God or  disapear into oblivion.
> 
> My question is what happens to those people who do countless evil things  like rapeing people and swindleing, killing children, being extremley  prideful and violent etc and never acknowledge that what they do is  wrong and never ask for forgiveness or accept their faults. When they  die, do they just simply 'pass into oblivion' and never have to answer  for their wickedness? I know God will forgive all for anything but what  about people who do evil and never ask for forgiveness. I understand  that God is not some cruel vengeful entity thats waiting to condemn  everyone for every tiny wrong they comit. I accept that my knowledge of  Sikh Dharma is sub-par at best especially compared to most of the  members of this forum but in my personal opinon there has to be some  sort of negative effect as a result of constant negitive actions in the  next life. I've heard people talk about heaven and hell being on this  planet, I understand where they're coming from and agree but shouldn't  there still be something of a negitive nature that happens to someone  who commits evil all their life? *For example I know there are many  evil, corrupt people in high positions of power around the world who  live in extreme comfort and are totally happy and content with their  lives and as far as they are concerned are living in heaven.* They  live their lives in happiness at the expense of others and at no time  submit to God or ask forgiveness or even care for forgivness . So what  I'm asking is when they pass on are they really going to just dissapear  into oblivion without having to attone for their wrong doings? And if so  whats the insentive to try and live a moral and pious life if there are  no reprocutions for your actions? It seems to me like Karma forces  people to have to atone one way or another for their wrong doings and is  part of the insentive (NOT ALL mind you only part) to do good and live  piously.
> 
> ...



How do you know those people are happy and content? Define happiness? They way I see it is even if outwardly you seem very happy, inside there is always a restlessness. Even in Japji it is said that the more you have, the more greedy you become. This is exemplified by people who have all the latest modcons and gadgets. They seem happy playing with all their toys but are they really satisfied as they always want more! Same with money and other possessions. People who do wrong are always looking over their shoulder in case they get caught-is that being content? Gangsters are constantly worried about being backstabbed-is that happiness? Rapists and thieves are looking for a short term adrenaline rush so once they finish they are already looking ahead-is that happiness and being contented?

The only way to get real happiness and contentment is to follow the Guru's path. The shahids went through tremendous physical stress and torture yet they were not unhappy as they submitted completely to the will of Waheguru. To interpret Gurbani correctly, we 1st need to stop judging happiness referred to in Gurbani by our worldly standards but think in terms of spiritual happiness-the inner peace that i'm sure most of us don't currently have.

I'm still not 100% sure where I stand on reincarnation but I'm sure many of the janam/maran lines in Gurbani do refer to this lifetime. Certainly looking back over my life, when worldly affairs take me over to distract me and my spirituality decreases I become very unhappy and feel like a part of me dies. When I comeback to Waheguru and regain my strength, I feel like I am a new person. When I am mean to someone my conscious haunts me and bad things happen. When I am good to someone, good things happen to me.

I appreciate the work done by G Singh. However, as Narayanjot Kaur said Gurbani quotes need to be interpreted with the shabad as a whole otherwise it's very easy to get a skewed view of what is being said. Either way, the message is to be conscious of how you behave and to be the best human being you can be, whether you get the fruits of that labour in this life or the next is irrelevant for me. We can't control how we behave in other lifetimes (if there are any) so lets focus on the here and now!


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## spnadmin (Aug 28, 2010)

For some reason whenever a serious challenge to the topic of reincarnation comes to the surface the name of Kala Afghana is mentioned. This happened a few years back and I was called a heretic in a very unpleasant discussion. 

I thank dalbirk ji for not going in that direction. 

Earlier I mentioned the writing of Dr, Baldev Singh who was critical of prevailing views of karma and reincarnation in Sikhism. Dr.Baldev Singh was not a follower of Kala Afghana to the best of my knowledge. Kala Afghana is now a sick old man in Canada. His books were never available in English as far as I could determine, and they are currently unavailable in any language because of the *fear *book sellers have to purvey them. His influence may not be that great.


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## jasbirkaleka (Aug 28, 2010)

animatedkhandaGuru Fateh,
With all due respect ,could the believers in reincarnation explain how the population of the world is increasing in leaps and bounds.?
Are more animals being reincarnated into human-beings?


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## Tejwant Singh (Aug 28, 2010)

dalbirk said:


> Tejwant Ji ,
> I request you to kindly contact G Singh Ji on his blog
> http://gursoch.blogspot.com/
> or contact by mail at gursoch@yahoo.com
> *There are a number of schools of thought who are in no doubt regarding the acceptance of transmigration of human soul belief in Sikhism* including Sikh Missionary College , Ludhiana , Giani Sant Singh Maskeen , Bhai Veer Singh , Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha , Giani Ditt Singh , Giani Pinderpal Singh , Bhai Randheer Singh & host lot of others . However the rejecting persons are all of recent origin post 1984  Kala Afghana , Spokesman Group , Inder Singh Ghagga all branded atheists in garb of Tat Gurmat Scholars mainly backed by Congress . The article of G Singh ji greatly helps to put all the doubts to rest regarding this subject .



Dalbirk ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the suggestion, however I beg to differ with you in what you wrote above.

 What you mention above and what is reincarnation about are two different things.

you write:



> *the acceptance of transmigration of human soul belief in Sikhism*


I would like to learn from the learned scholars like G Singh ji and others, what is the true meaning of _*SOUL*_? What is this _*SOUL *_that Gurbani talks about so often?

Unless we know about its meaning, we can not talk about reincarnation which in essence means taking a bodily shape again.

There are many holes according to my way of looking at Gurbani in G Singh's  interpretation on reincarnation which for some reasons he calls it incarnation which has a different meaning and the reason of this change is only  known to him. I will be dissecting his post step by step, time permitting. 

Just as a starter, his interpretation of reshaping the iron is incorrect according to me. Iron ore is  not for reshaping but for shaping into whatever we want it to.  We can only reshape by melting  what already had been shaped before.

His insistence on garab and joon means that one has to be reborn through the mother's womb does not make any sense either according to Sikhi. I will be doing the interpretation of each Shabad in individual posts.

G. Singh ji, as always is welcome here to contest what myself or others who write and may disagree with him.

As mentioned before and it is worth mentioning again that Sikhi did not stop in time like many other religions, hence we call it a journey rather than a destination where Hell or Heaven, which are a kind of reincarnation, are waiting for us.

The reason of us studying Gurbani daily via Nitnem, Sehaj Paath etc. etc is for us not to become parrots but rediscover ourselves with the help of Gurbani, otherwise the whole effort goes to waste and becomes futile. 

The rediscovery of the self is to be shared  with others. Sikhi is a very practical way of life. Sri Guru Granth Sahib, our tool box and our only Guru helps us do that.

So, for me this rediscovery is a reincarnation. Having a different outlook shows on our bodies physically. The inner metamorphosis is manifested  in a physical manner.

I was talking to my daughter,Jaskeerat about it on the other day who just turned 20 on August 25th. Well, let me correct myself,  she was talking about it to me about reincarnation and she had many interesting things to say about it.

One of many things she mentioned, one  stuck to my heart literally and metaphorically speaking. She told me that my heart problem at the age of 46 and its remedies in a way of looking at life differently was a reincarnation for all 4 of us. Jaskeerat was 12 and Trimaan was 8 then. It changed all of us especially the young kids who had no idea how things would change. For Jaskeerat, every change, every new discovery about herself is the manifestation of reincarnation with which I totally agree with. Same goes for Trimaan who often talks about the day with me teary eyed when I had the V Tach. It affected him so much that he still remembers it and becomes emotional although the episode took place in Jan.2003.

A few days ago, I had a shock while at Trimaan's doctor. I had a bottle of water  in my hand which flew away. I was fine after that because it hits  like a donkey's kick for a second or 2 and then everything becomes normal. Shock is  the last resort. The reason I brought this up is  because I hate being late at any place and these 2 kids were delaying the process which made me a bit upset. After the episode, they both came to the conclusion that perhaps it was due to being late, their dad had the shock. From that time onwards, they are ready before time. So, for me this is reincarnation in a sense. Reincarnation will have no meaning in our lives if we did not see as an improvement of ourselves than before here and now.

The scholars you have mentioned above have contributed tremendously to Sikhi whether one agrees with some or not is not the case. Their contributions should give all of us encouragement to discover new gems in this beautiful Gurbani and we should not be afraid or fearful if we happen to disagree with them because of our own new discoveries. 

Gurbani is a limitless ore of gems which I am sure, people who follow us will still be discovering something new till the end of times. 

This is the beauty of Sikhi and being a Sikh. 

What a blessed way to start our journey anew every time we open the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, our only Guru!

Lastly, I would like to add is  that all these discussions go to waste if we as Sikhs, are not able to make a difference in the world that we live in now.

Making a difference, changing someone's life here and now is reincarnation for me.

Regards.

Tejwant Singh


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## spnadmin (Aug 28, 2010)

Tejwant ji, dalbirk ji, forum members

It is important in my opinion to distinguish between transmigration and reincarnation so that some basic understanding of exactly how "the soul" returns to take on a new "joon" and I use the Punjabi world deliberately here. 

The word "joon" itself has been used differently in gurbani.

It is also in my opinion important to understand what is meant by "soul" as Tejwant ji so eloquently points out. How we understand the nature of the "soul"  might guide understanding of how reincarnation or transmigration occurs as a practical matter, if indeed they do occur.

Is the soul something distict from consciousness? Or is it a special form of consciousness? If it is not consciousness then what is it?

What kind of soul are we talking about? Is there such a thing as "my soul?" Does it belong to me? Or is it on loan from a more overwhelming spiritual force, a greater soul? Do I give my soul up when I die? Or do I give it back? Or did I never own my own personal and separate soul in the first place? In other words is the soul personal? Is it a separate soul from all other souls for all other beings ever born? This question is not frivolous. Not only because how we answer it addresses the arithmetic problem mentioned by both blajeet ji and jasbirkaleka ji. But also because if we can come to terms with its nature, then we can grasp concepts of reincarnation and transmigration more clearly. But I am left wondering where this vichaar of the nature of the soul has been shared in a broad way.

More important than any of my questions about the soul and reincarnation and transmigration is the matter of how they fit into dharma.

My questions are worthless questions if we are unclear about the moral purpose of our quest. Do Sikh scholars consider the reincarnation of the soul to be a solitary karmic journey of individuals and their individual souls? Or is the karmic journey about the morality of our actions toward ourselves and others in this lifetime,whether or not reincarnation is a fact.


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## BhagatSingh (Aug 28, 2010)

*An informal critique of Dr. Baldev Singh's article plus a discussion of things brought up in the thread.*




Narayanjot Kaur said:


> For some reason whenever a  serious challenge to the topic of reincarnation comes to the surface the  name of Kala Afghana is mentioned. This happened a few years back and I  was called a heretic in a very unpleasant discussion.
> 
> I thank dalbirk ji for not going in that direction.
> 
> Earlier I mentioned the writing of Dr, Baldev Singh who was critical of  prevailing views of karma and reincarnation in Sikhism. Dr.Baldev Singh  was not a follower of Kala Afghana to the best of my knowledge. Kala  Afghana is now a sick old man in Canada. His books were never available  in English as far as I could determine, and they are currently  unavailable in any language because of the fear book sellers have to  purvey them. His influence may not be that great.


 
I still have to see what Kala Afghana has written but I have read Dr. Baldev Singh's article  several times now... I have to say I found it kind of funny this time  around. Now that I understand the Fact of Evolution and have some  understanding of Eastern Traditions (Budddhism, Hinduism and its  schools, Sikhism), I don't buy into his arguments. I am sure Dr Baldev  Singh ji is being quite honest with his interpretations of Gurbani but I  am not so sure if they are correct at all. In fact, they have been  interpreted with scientific glasses, which simply gives a scientific  overtone to all verses he presents. and such overtones are just not  there in the original. A simple fact of history that Modern Science is fairly recent  compared to Guru Nanak's time, puts doubt on interpreting Sri Guru Granth Sahib  scientifically. You just won't get the right interpretation if you  interpret it in a modern context, and so Dr. Baldev Singh's article is  what you would expect as a result, in hindsight.

I think G Singh's Post (provided by Dalbirk ji here i nthe thread)  pretty much explains reincarnation in Sikhism. There IS a belief in  reincarnation and transmigration of souls.
----------------------------
Dr Baldev Singh ji says:



> ...Guru Nanak rejected the caste system.



I am not so sure of this actually. This is one of the assumptions Singh  makes in his article. I am not so sure Guru Nanak rejected the caste  system, he certainly rejected the discrimination based on caste system.  Races aren't like castes but if one takes the analogy at the  superficially, then Guru Nanak was against Racism not the idea that  there are separate races. Although, back in the day, castes would be  considered no different to races. 
As per the following Verse, we see Guru Nanak ji is not rejecting castes:



> Page 349, Line 13
> ਜਾਣਹੁ ਜੋਤਿ ਨ ਪੂਛਹੁ ਜਾਤੀ ਆਗੈ ਜਾਤਿ ਨ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
> जाणहु जोति न पूछहु जाती आगै जाति न हे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
> Jāṇhu joṯ na pūcẖẖahu jāṯī āgai jāṯ na he. ||1|| rahā▫o.
> ...





In this verse, Guru Ramdas ji says that castes were created by God.



> Page 553, Line 16
> ਆਪੇ ਦਸ ਅਠ ਵਰਨ ਉਪਾਇਅਨੁ ਆਪਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਆਪਿ ਰਾਜੁ ਲਇਆ ॥
> आपे दस अठ वरन उपाइअनु आपि ब्रहमु आपि राजु लइआ ॥
> Āpe ḏas aṯẖ varan upā▫i▫an āp barahm āp rāj la▫i▫ā.
> ...



So he says based on his assumption Guru Nanak would have rejected the  whole concept of Reincarnation because it supports Caste. Whether  reincarnation supports caste, is a separate issue and it may not have to  be the case all the time, but since we see that Caste is not rejected,  there is no reason to think Guru Nanak would reject reincarnation. 

In all Eastern Traditions there exists this notion of Samsara, the cycle  of creation and destruction. At the largest scale, it is the creation  and destruction of the cosmos. At a smaller scale of the individual, it  is the creation of destruction of life. Life is full of suffering and so  to escape the cycle, samsara, was the goal of human life if one wanted  peace and happiness.

[side note: Life was full of suffering during Guru Nanak Dev ji's time  and before. Its much easier now because of Modern Medicine and all the  technologies such as sewer systems, electricity and proper housing and  such. But back then sickness and death were very common and old age was  pretty unbearable.]

-----------------------
Baldev Singh ji then says:



> You will be amazed to find that what you wrote [about Evolution] sounds more like the language of reincarnation.



Well, I am not so sure that it evolution is even remotely similar to  reincarnation, and Baldev Singh ji has presented no reason to show that it is. His claim is basless. Recall that reincarnation is Samsara on the smaller  scale, on an individual 'scale. It is a cycle of creation and  destruction. Evolution is not a cyclical cycle of creation and  destruction. 

-----------------------------------
Singh then argues that:



> Again, here the Nanakian philosophy radically differs from  other religions. In Nanakian philosophy, soul is God--the Transcendent  One that permeates the entire cosmos and it is called as jyoti (light).


Hence, essence of God is present in everything. We call it  soul when it is specifically present in life. It does not have to be  consciousness, in that sense. 
BTW contrary to what Singh seems to believe, this is exactly what Hindu  tradtions also say about the soul, and it does not contradict with  reincarnation.

In Sri Guru Granth Sahib, soul is not separate from God but it does have to suffer during life. Reincarnation means that the soul has to suffer over and over again. The discipline of Bhagati is ultimately meant to release  the soul from the the cycle of births and deaths, from the suffering. 

-------X----------X-----------X---------------

Narayanjot Kaur ji,
Your questions can not be so easily answered because Hinduism has evolved so much since its beginnings. What makes it worse is that Hinduism keeps all the beliefs it ever had, it does not discard anything, and it continues to evolve and branch. 




> 1. Karma 4. Caste System (and maybe even 7.) 2. How is the Hindu view of reincarnation (and karma and caste) different from the Sikh view of reincarnation (if they are different)?


We come to see that older notions of caste, karma  and  reincarnation in Hindu Traditions involve a movement of the soul  higher  on the hierarchy system of Castes. Good karma leads to a higher  position  on the "Caste ladder".... eventually one becomes a Kshatriya then Brahman then Sadhu/Bhagat (highest position) and  is then  liberated. 

This is not mentioned or discussed in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, as far  as I know. 



> 3. Is belief in reincarnation central to the practice of Sikhism? If it is central, then why so?


It is central because the Bhagati discipline prescribed in Sri Guru Granth Sahib is a way of obtaining God's grace, which releases us from reincarnation. Reincarnation means constant suffering, release from it gives peace and satisfaction. God's grace is the door out of it and Bhagati is the way to the door.
If one says its not central, I would ask why follow Guru Nanak's way to life if you don't believe in reincarnation?



> 5. /6. Do children who are victims of war and famine, or women who are victims of horrific disfigurement at the hands of their husbands, suffer because of previous karmas? Does their suffering clean them up according to gurmat?


Well, according to Sri Guru Granth Sahib, apparently the past actions do affect us in this life. But we are only to concern ourselves with this life, and cleansing only occurs when:


> ਮੇਰੇ  ਮਨ  ਕਰਨ  ਸੁਣਿ  ਹਰਿ  ਨਾਮੁ  ॥
> मेरे मन करन सुणि हरि नामु ॥
> Mere man karan suṇ har nām.
> O my mind, with your ears, l*isten to the Name of the Lord.* [Part of the discipline of Bhagati]
> ...


Page 1006, Line 10 Guru Arjan Dev ji


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## spnadmin (Aug 28, 2010)

*Re: An informal critique of Dr. Baldev Singh's article plus a discussion of things brought up in the thread.*

Bhagat Singh ji

Here are a few reactions to your comprehensive answers.

Dr. Baldev Singh was a humorist. So there may have been places in his article where you thought it funny and he was in fact being facetious. I would have to go back and find exact examples. Dr. 'Baldev Singh was a scientist. As a matter of fact he had his doctorate in pharmacology and worked in pharmaceutical research for many years before his recent passing. Rather than see the results of his analysis "scientific" I tend to see his approach to be more revealing of the keen logic of a good researcher. He has written extensively about Sikhism and I encourage you to read the vast number of articles he has contributed over the years. 

His work appears in Sikh Spectrum, Global Sikh Studies, and Sikh Bulletin. The latter publication has frequently been targeted as a pro Kala Afghana and atheist journal.

Are you sure that Sri Guru Granth Sahib connects reincarnation to movement of the soul through a hierarchy of spiritual states? Are you sure that it does not? What do you believe Sri Guru Granth Sahib teaches are the steps to liberation from the cycle of life and death?  Is this similar to the Hindu concept of mukhti or not?

It is precisely my concern that an ordinary understanding of reincarnation nearly always refers to successive stages of improvement. That idea of working every so sequentially toward mukhti, that makes me pause and ask questions.

You are quite right when you say that Hinduism has evolved. It is always difficult to talk about "hinduism" in comparison to x y or z belief system without being simplistic because there are so many ways to practice Hinduism. For some it is not even a religion but a way of life. And many reject the caste system while others have a very abstract view of god, as non personal and transcendent. I am both aware and sensitive to the issues you raise.

I hope I have used the word not so much generically, but in reference to the Law of Manu and the Ramayana, rather than all of Hinduism. 


I do wonder about the vichaar you have given for several of the verses from Gurbani. But look forward to your posting the entire shabads and telling us what you believe they say..




But my questions have not been answered. :happykaur:


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## BhagatSingh (Aug 28, 2010)

*Re: An informal critique of Dr. Baldev Singh's article plus a discussion of things brought up in the thread.*

Narayanjot kaur ji,


Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Bhagat Singh ji
> 
> Here are a few reactions to your comprehensive answers.
> 
> Dr. Baldev Singh was a humorist. So there may have been places in his article where you thought it funny and he was in fact being facetious. I would have to go back and find exact examples.





> Dr. 'Baldev Singh was a scientist. As a matter of fact he had his doctorate in pharmacology and worked in pharmaceutical research for many years before his recent passing. Rather than see the results of his analysis "scientific" I tend to see his approach to be more revealing of the keen logic of a good researcher. He has written extensively about Sikhism and I encourage you to read the vast number of articles he has contributed over the years.


Yes, its quite clear from the article that he is a scientist. He does use good logic but I am afraid his interpretations may not be correct. Many verses he presents have scientific overtones.  




> His work appears in Sikh Spectrum, Global Sikh Studies, and Sikh Bulletin. The latter publication has frequently been targeted as a pro Kala Afghana and atheist journal.


Sure, I'll read his material.


> Are you sure that Sri Guru Granth Sahib connects reincarnation to movement of the soul through a hierarchy of spiritual states? Are you sure that it does not?


Not at all. I said Sri Guru Granth Sahib does not mention or discuss it. Am I sure that it does not mention it? Nope.



> What do you believe Sri Guru Granth Sahib teaches are the steps to  liberation from the cycle of life and death?  Is this similar to the  Hindu concept of mukhti or not?


I have mentioned before, in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, the discipline of Bhagati (Bhakti Yog) seems to be the prescribed method for obtaining God's Grace, which then leads to liberation. 

In Bhakti Movement, this is a prevalent thought. Not in other schools though. Some Hindu schools even consider Bhagati as inferior, instead they might advocate for Royal Discipline of Meditation (Raj Yog).

Also important to note: Bhakti Yog is a bit different in Sikhism. Look at this list of "ways of Bhakti", Sri Guru Granth Sahib does *not* advocate all of them.
_"(1) śravaṇa("listening" to the scriptural stories of Kṛṣṇa/God and his companions), (2) __kīrtana ("praising", usually refers to ecstatic group singing), (3) __simaraṇa ("remembering" or fixing the mind on Viṣṇu/God), (4) __pāda-sevana (rendering service), (5) __arcana (worshiping an image), (6) __vandana (paying homage), (7) __dāsya (servitude), (8. __sākhya (friendship), and (9) __ātma-nivedana (self-surrender). (from __Bhagata Purana, 7.5.23-24)_"




> It is precisely my concern that an ordinary understanding of reincarnation nearly always refers to successive stages of improvement, working every so sequentially toward mukhti, that makes me pause and ask questions.


No, reincarnation is not always progressive. Only good karma and the following can lead to progression and thus Mukti:
Bhakti Yog(Sikhism, Bhakti Movement, Sufism) 
Raj Yog (Advaita Vedanta, Vishishtadvaita Vedanta, Buddhism, Zen Buddhism)



> You are quite right when you say that Hinduism has evolved. It is always difficult to talk about "hinduism" in comparison to x y or z belief system without being simplistic because there are so many ways to practice Hinduism. For some it is not even a religion but a way of life. And many reject the caste system while others have a very abstract view of god, as non personal and transcendent. I am both aware and sensitive to the issues you raise.
> 
> I hope have used the word not so much generically but in reference to the Law of Manu and the Ramayana, rather than all of Hinduism.


Yes, I understand that completely.



> I do wonder about the vichaar you have given for several of the verses from Gurbani. But look forward to your posting the entire shabads and telling us what you believe they say..


The verses in Dr. Baldev Singh ji's article?




> But my questions have not been answered. :happykaur:


Well in that case, you should see what has been answered, what still needs to be answered. And then we can start researching from there.
------------------

We have to be honest here.. yes we have our own interpretations of   things but it ultimately comes from a scientific mindset . Such a mindset   with knowledge of latest scientific discoveries was not present during   Guru Nanak's time. And to attribute the discoveries to ancient texts   whether its the Bible, Quran or even something more modern as Sri Guru   Granth Sahib, is kind of dishonest. 
Yes, on a personal level one could believe those interpretations, but   ultimately, if we are to find out exactly what Guru Nanak Dev ji meant,   we are going to have to consider the influences and conditions of his   time. 
We have to learn to recognize and abandon all the   assumptions we make knowingly or unknowingly, when analyzing such texts. Problem is that shunning some of the assumptions is seen as "disrespectful"... if you get the gist.
We are also going to have to consider what was known during that time.   E.g. we should not interpret verses to describe Higg's Uncertainty   Principle.


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## spnadmin (Aug 28, 2010)

*Re: An informal critique of Dr. Baldev Singh's article plus a discussion of things brought up in the thread.*

]Bhagat Singh ji 

I have omitted some of your comments from the quoted text in my reply and need to return to them later. In a way I am almost reluctant because that would stand the chance of getting the discussion off onto a few tangents. So let's see. You make some interesting points. So I am replying to the end of your last comment. My thoughts are in blue.




BhagatSingh said:


> I am wondering whether you read my comments much earlier in the thread where I said that perhaps there is a 3rd school of thought, maybe even more than 3 schools of thought on the subject of reincarnation. That one need not be forced into accepting the more common vichaars of gurbani verus rejecting reincarnation completely. It has been my sole intent in the past day or so to ask questions, as I myself do not have answers.
> 
> 
> I am also less interested in coming to conclusions on this than I am in seeing the questions asked. Because I do not think they have been addressed for the most part in the many different sources I have read (neither on Dr. Baldev Sigh's side, nor from opposing  perspectives). I personally do not agree with Dr. Baldev Singh. At the same time he has raised issues that need to be considered because he has shown where we have deviated from Guru Nanak's teaching.
> ...



Please elaborate. How are you tying this statement to the discussion so far? Unless of course you want to offer your own scientific model for interpreting the shabad guru.



Are there really only two views of reincarnation in this thread?


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## spnadmin (Aug 28, 2010)

*Re: An informal critique of Dr. Baldev Singh's article plus a discussion of things brought up in the thread.*

Bhagat Singh ji

I do have a question for you - asked earlier. What is your understanding of this shabad? It is one that you quoted maybe 4 posts back. You said you were not certain the Guru Nanak rejects the caste system. Would you relate your ideas about science and history to your understanding of the shabad? It is important to get back to the entire shabad so the individual verses are not taken out of context. Thanks



ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ 
आसा महला १ ॥ 
Āsā mėhlā 1. 
Aasaa, First Mehl: 

ਜੇ ਦਰਿ ਮਾਂਗਤੁ ਕੂਕ ਕਰੇ ਮਹਲੀ ਖਸਮੁ ਸੁਣੇ ॥ 
जे दरि मांगतु कूक करे महली खसमु सुणे ॥ 
Je ḏar māŉgaṯ kūk kare mahlī kẖasam suṇe. 
If a beggar cries out at the door, the Master hears it in His Mansion. 

ਭਾਵੈ ਧੀਰਕ ਭਾਵੈ ਧਕੇ ਏਕ ਵਡਾਈ ਦੇਇ ॥੧॥ 
भावै धीरक भावै धके एक वडाई देइ ॥१॥ 
Bẖāvai ḏẖīrak bẖāvai ḏẖake ek vadā▫ī ḏe▫e. ||1|| 
Whether He receives him or pushes him away, it is the Gift of the Lord's Greatness. ||1|| 

ਜਾਣਹੁ ਜੋਤਿ ਨ ਪੂਛਹੁ ਜਾਤੀ ਆਗੈ ਜਾਤਿ ਨ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
जाणहु जोति न पूछहु जाती आगै जाति न हे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ 
Jāṇhu joṯ na pūcẖẖahu jāṯī āgai jāṯ na he. ||1|| rahā▫o. 
Recognize the Lord's Light within all, and do not consider social class or status; there are no classes or castes in the world hereafter. ||1||Pause|| 

ਆਪਿ ਕਰਾਏ ਆਪਿ ਕਰੇਇ ॥ 
आपि कराए आपि करेइ ॥ 
Āp karā▫e āp kare▫i. 
He Himself acts, and He Himself inspires us to act. 

ਆਪਿ ਉਲਾਮ੍ਹ੍ਹੇ ਚਿਤਿ ਧਰੇਇ ॥ 
आपि उलाम्हे चिति धरेइ ॥ 
Āp ulāmeĥ cẖiṯ ḏẖare▫e. 
He Himself considers our complaints. 

ਜਾ ਤੂੰ ਕਰਣਹਾਰੁ ਕਰਤਾਰੁ ॥ 
जा तूं करणहारु करतारु ॥ 
Jā ṯūŉ karanhār karṯār. 
Since You, O Creator Lord, are the Doer, 

ਕਿਆ ਮੁਹਤਾਜੀ ਕਿਆ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥੨॥ 
किआ मुहताजी किआ संसारु ॥२॥ 
Ki▫ā muhṯājī ki▫ā sansār. ||2|| 
why should I submit to the world? ||2|| 

ਆਪਿ ਉਪਾਏ ਆਪੇ ਦੇਇ ॥ 
आपि उपाए आपे देइ ॥ 
Āp upā▫e āpe ḏe▫e. 
You Yourself created and You Yourself give. 

ਆਪੇ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਮਨਹਿ ਕਰੇਇ ॥ 
आपे दुरमति मनहि करेइ ॥ 
Āpe ḏurmaṯ manėh kare▫i. 
You Yourself eliminate evil-mindedness; 

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦਿ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਇ ॥ 
गुर परसादि वसै मनि आइ ॥ 
Gur parsāḏ vasai man ā▫e. 
by Guru's Grace, You come to abide in our minds, 

ਦੁਖੁ ਅਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੇਰਾ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਜਾਇ ॥੩॥ 
दुखु अन्हेरा विचहु जाइ ॥३॥ 
Ḏukẖ anĥerā vicẖahu jā▫e. ||3|| 
and then, pain and darkness are dispelled from within. ||3|| 

ਸਾਚੁ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਆਪਿ ਕਰੇਇ ॥ 
साचु पिआरा आपि करेइ ॥ 
Sācẖ pi▫ārā āp kare▫i. 
He Himself infuses love for the Truth. 

ਅਵਰੀ ਕਉ ਸਾਚੁ ਨ ਦੇਇ ॥ 
अवरी कउ साचु न देइ ॥ 
Avrī ka▫o sācẖ na ḏe▫e. 
Unto others, the Truth is not bestowed. 

ਜੇ ਕਿਸੈ ਦੇਇ ਵਖਾਣੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਗੈ ਪੂਛ ਨ ਲੇਇ ॥੪॥੩॥ 
जे किसै देइ वखाणै नानकु आगै पूछ न लेइ ॥४॥३॥ 
Je kisai ḏe▫e vakẖāṇai Nānak āgai pūcẖẖ na le▫e. ||4||3|| 
If He bestows it upon someone, says Nanak, then, in the world hereafter, that person is not called to account. ||4||3||


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## spnadmin (Aug 29, 2010)

*Re: An informal critique of Dr. Baldev Singh's article plus a discussion of things brought up in the thread.*

Bhagat Singh ji

I have moved your last reply to this thread.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/32050-can-the-modern-mind-comprehend-gurbani.html

The only minds we have to read and interpret gurbani, or to have this discussion about Reincarnation, are the minds we now have. Be we merchants, professors, biochemists, students, and the like. Of course we have filters. there is no getting around it.  So did each and every person who every wrote a translation of SGGS, or the author of Guru Granth Darpan, Professor Sahib Singh. He wrote from the perspective of the late 19th and early 20th Century, as a Sanskirt scholar and activist in the Gurdwara Reform Movement. Thus it is unworkable to make "filters" cause for dismissing individual points of view.

I have asked you to give your vichaar of a shabad rather than quoting one line, so that the forum can understand how you have responded to points rasied in previous posts by me and other members.

However, you have been a bit unfair.Your reply so changed the basic direction of the discussion that one would have to debate each and every new and unique presumption you have introduced, before being able to circle back to the thread itself. By that time the original direction of the thread would be lost. 

Please do give us your vichaar of the shabad. Be sensitive to issues raised by others. Do not change the framework of conversation in a way that absolves you from being responsive, and rather gives you a way to redefine the debate. Thanks.


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## Tejwant Singh (Aug 29, 2010)

dalbirk said:


> Here is a very good article by my enlightened friend G singh ( pk70 ) on his blog . Describes the whole concept in its entireity .
> 
> http://gursoch.blogspot.com/
> 20100810
> ...



Sadh Sangat,

First and foremost, I want to thank G.Singh ji for this excellent thoughtful essay and Dalbirk ji for posting it.

This gives us a lot to contemplate, think and makes us ask ourselves how we should conduct ourselves in the only life we know.

As, I mentioned in my earlier post that I would talk about the essay in various parts by discussing the whole shabad in each part.

Before I do that, I seek your help in understanding certain things which I put in the following questions. I must admit that I have sent the same questions to G. Singh ji and hope to get his response which with his permission, I will post them here. After all we are Sadh Sangat and it is our duty to interact, exchange Gurmat ideas in order to learn from each other.


1. What is the difference between incarnation and reincarnation?

2. Do our Gurus talk about the former-incarnation- on which the above essay is based on or about the latter?

3. Can Gursoch ( how the Shabad is understood)  be different for different Sikhs about the same Shabad  as long as it is based on Gurmat ideals given to us in SGGS, our only  Guru?

4. How does one reconcile if they are different because we all  know that our Gurus did not leave any interpretation of Gurbani in the  form of prose?

I would urge all for their insights, input and Gurmat wisdom.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh


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## BhagatSingh (Aug 30, 2010)

*Re:*



Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Bhagat Singh ji
> 
> I have moved your last reply to this thread.
> 
> ...


I disagree with that notion; I don't like the attitude where one thinks that "there is no getting around to it". in fact we CAN get around it.

Do you think there is no difference between the interpretation done by the average "Joeinder" and a person who has studied history around Guru Sahibs time and has learned Sanskrit?

Filters are present in both but the latter has reduced them. He can work around most of his because of his qualifications, while Joeinder doesn't have the resources to do so. Now read the first paragraph of that post. I am precisely talking about this kind of reduction in filters and not a removal of them. Removal is just not going to happen... duh! lol



> I have asked you to give your vichaar of a shabad rather than quoting one line, so that the forum can understand how you have responded to points rasied in previous posts by me and other members.
> 
> However, you have been a bit unfair.Your reply so changed the basic direction of the discussion that one would have to debate each and every new and unique presumption you have introduced, before being able to circle back to the thread itself. By that time the original direction of the thread would be lost.
> 
> Please do give us your vichaar of the shabad. Be sensitive to issues raised by others. Do not change the framework of conversation in a way that absolves you from being responsive, and rather gives you a way to redefine the debate. Thanks.


I apologize if you found my reply unfair but did you not ask me to elaborate? So then be patient...

Ok now that that's (literally) out of the way. Onto the shabad icecreammunda

My explanation is meant to me supplementary to the quoted shabad's translation.


> Aasaa, First Mehl:
> If a beggar cries out at the door, the Master hears it in His Mansion.
> Whether He receives him or pushes him away, it is the Gift of the Lord's Greatness. ||1||


Guru Nanak says: Good and Bad things are gifts of God. 

"Gift of the Lord's greatness" = In other words, in this world of multiplicity, we perceive intellectual  distinctions. Like a ray of light splitting off into the rainbow when  passing through a prism. Our mind is like that prism which sees the One  as many. The greatness lies in the power of Maya that is associated with the One. Maya creates the prism.




> Recognize the Lord's Light within all, and do not consider social class  or status; there are no classes or castes in the world hereafter.  ||1||Pause||


God's essence is in all living things. Do not worry about social status because that does not exist outside of this world of multiplicity. 




> He Himself acts, and He Himself inspires us to act.
> He Himself considers our complaints.
> Since You, O Creator Lord, are the Doer,
> why should I submit to the world? ||2||


 So what we perceive as a world of multiplicity, is actually coming from the one. Thus no need to "submit to the world".




> You Yourself created and You Yourself give.
> You Yourself eliminate evil-mindedness;
> by Guru's Grace, You come to abide in our minds,
> and then, pain and darkness are dispelled from within. ||3||


 By Guru's Grace (through Bhagati) that prism is broken, and we see one ray of light instead of multiple distinct rays.

"come to abide in minds" - we get a direct experience of the Oneness



> He Himself infuses love for the Truth.
> Unto others, the Truth is not bestowed.
> If He bestows it upon someone, says Nanak, then, in the world hereafter, that person is not called to account. ||4||3||


Once the prism is broken, we see the Oneness and will not suffer through reincarnation.
"person not called to account" - that's only done if the person is still in samsara (cycle of births and deaths)


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## spnadmin (Aug 30, 2010)

*Re:*

Bhagat Singh ji

How do you decide who is the average "Joeinder?" And how do you decide who is the authority you want to respect? 

Thanks for your vichaar. More later.


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## BhagatSingh (Aug 30, 2010)

Naryanjot kaur ji
People with qualifications in Sikh history and languages are good candidates for the authority you want to respect. Those with an additional background in Eastern Philosophy are better candidates. Those who are also disinterested and objectively studying texts are even better.
Over time as interpretations converging from independent sources (from good candidates) are (probably) going to be more accurate.


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## spnadmin (Aug 30, 2010)

BhagatSingh said:


> Naryanjot kaur ji
> People with qualifications in Sikh history and languages are good candidates for the authority you want to respect. Those with an additional background in Eastern Philosophy are better candidates. Those who are also disinterested and objectively studying texts are even better.
> Over time as interpretations converging from independent sources (from good candidates) are (probably) going to be more accurate.




And what criteria do you propose to judge the qualifications of these candidates? And by what publicly vetted process do you plan to gain consensus? And how do you propose to find a consensus or demonstrate that a consensus is there? 

You still have not told me who the average "joeinder" is.  winkingmundathanks


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## BhagatSingh (Aug 30, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> And what criteria do you propose to judge the qualifications of these candidates? And by what publicly vetted process do you plan to gain consensus? And how do you propose to find a consensus or demonstrate that a consensus is there?


Well if they have studied Sikh History, Indian Languages and Eastern Philosophy formally that would be awesome.
I do not really plan on getting a consensus. I am not sure what a consensus has to do with anything I have said.



> You still have not told me who the average "joeinder" is. thanks


I am the average Joeinder. icecreammunda I only have a bucket full from the vast oceans of knowledge I need to grasp (that is knowledge of Sikh History, Languages and Eastern Philosophy) before I can make accurate historical interpretations.


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## spnadmin (Aug 30, 2010)

BhagatSingh said:


> Well if they have studied Sikh History, Indian Languages and Eastern Philosophy formally that would be awesome.
> I do not really plan on getting a consensus. I am not sure what a consensus has to do with anything I have said.
> 
> I am the average Joeinder. icecreammunda I only have a bucket full from the vast oceans of knowledge I need to grasp (that is knowledge of Sikh History, Languages and Eastern Philosophy) before I can make accurate historical interpretations.



Bhagat ji

I am glad you clarified. It is always amazing how many noted and/or accepted scholars of Gurbani do not have academic credentials in History, languages or eastern Philosophy. In fact it would be worth the effort to do an analysis just to see how inter-disciplinary and multi-discplinary Sikh scholarship is.

My concern would be that if one waits until one has conquered the ocean, one will never realise what has collected within the bucket. I.E., you will never begin a serious programme of vichaar and hold it out for others to consider, question and evaluate.

I was asking about a consensus because at least in academic and scholarly domains finding a critical mass of people schooled in a subject is usually the way in which works of scholarship are agreed on as scholarship.


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## BhagatSingh (Aug 30, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Bhagat ji
> 
> I am glad you clarified. It is always amazing how many noted and/or accepted scholars of Gurbani do not have academic credentials in History, languages or eastern Philosophy. In fact it would be worth the effort to do an analysis just to see how inter-disciplinary and multi-discplinary Sikh scholarship is.
> 
> My concern would be that if one waits until one has conquered the ocean, one will never realise what has collected within the bucket. I.E., you will never begin a serious programme of vichaar and hold it out for others to consider, question and evaluate.


Yes, you got to get going with the bucket you have. Remember, individually, we might all only have a few buckets, but put them together and we have a following river.
Of course, one must collect more knowledge and get more buckets, periodically.



> I was asking about a consensus because at least in academic and scholarly domains finding a critical mass of people schooled in a subject is usually the way in which works of scholarship are agreed on as scholarship.


ok I think I get what you are saying. Wouldn't everyone agree though that if someone is studying and interpreting SGGS (formally) they would need to have a background in history, language (and metaphor) and eastern philosophy?


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## BhagatSingh (Aug 31, 2010)

Randip Singh ji, welcome to this thread!


Randip Singh said:


> Actually it is/was radically different.
> 
> Wheras Hinduism, and Guru Nanaks contemporaries saw reincarnation as some sort of order, rock to plant to animal and then human, Guru Nanak saw only human life as being most important and precious and the rest of reincarnation he saw as random, i.e. people can just from rock to human etc.


yes I am aware of the shabads that you have in that article. They proceed with the following rhythm.
In so many incarnations you were X.
In so many incarnations you were Y.

I am interested in knowing your reasons and why you think he is breaking some ordered hierarchy.

Here's what I think:
From those shabads,  ts difficult to conclude that Guru Arjan is rejecting any order or hierarchy. IMO Guru Arjan is just makign a point that you have suffered so much in reincarnation in many different forms, now is the time (as human) to experience Oneness. 
He seems to be just listing off different forms one could be in. I think the only thing we can really conclude from this is that Guru Arjan also considers rocks and mountains to be part of reincarnation. 

If one says that Guru Arjan intentionally lists them in a random order, then by the same logic is Guru Arjan intentionally leaving out some creations implying we do not incarnate to those forms?


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## Randip Singh (Aug 31, 2010)

BhagatSingh said:


> Randip Singh ji, welcome to this thread!<?"urn:fficeffice" />





BhagatSingh said:


> yes I am aware of the shabads that you have in that article. They proceed with the following rhythm.
> In so many incarnations you were X.
> In so many incarnations you were Y.
> 
> I am interested in knowing your reasons and why you think he is breaking some ordered hierarchy.



<o> </o>
Because he is breaking with the Hindu notion of Karma, which directly leads us to believe in the caste system.
<o> </o>
i.e. ones Karma determines ones castes and there is hierarchy of humans, Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishnav, Sudra, Untouchable, Animal, Plant, Rock.



BhagatSingh said:


> Here's what I think:
> From those shabads, ts difficult to conclude that Guru Arjan is rejecting any order or hierarchy. IMO Guru Arjan is just makign a point that you have suffered so much in reincarnation in many different forms, now is the time (as human) to experience Oneness.
> He seems to be just listing off different forms one could be in. I think the only thing we can really conclude from this is that Guru Arjan also considers rocks and mountains to be part of reincarnation.
> 
> If one says that Guru Arjan intentionally lists them in a random order, then by the same logic is Guru Arjan intentionally leaving out some creations implying we do not incarnate to those forms?



<o> </o>
Then that would imply they believed in a caste system too right?


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## spnadmin (Aug 31, 2010)

Randip Singh said:


> <o> </o>
> Because he is breaking with the Hindu notion of Karma, which directly leads us to believe in the caste system.
> <o> </o>



Oh I am so happy I am not talking to myself. cheerleader Thanks!


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## Tejwant Singh (Aug 31, 2010)

Sadh Sangat,

Guru Fateh.

While I am waiting for my responses from G.Singh,Dalbarik Singh ji and other members, I have one more questions to ask :

1.Is there any being in the world that does not have a womb because according to the excellent essay by G Singh ji womb is  real and not used as a metaphor?

Sometimes, I myself feel like a floating glacier who broke from the womb and is adrift in the lesser environment called water waiting for my death and hence becoming the part  of this lesser environment I am drifting in.

In the next life I hope to become the part of the Gobi desert.

Tejwant Singh


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## findingmyway (Aug 31, 2010)

*Re: An informal critique of Dr. Baldev Singh's article plus a discussion of things brought up in the thread.*

A lot has been going on in this thread and it is taking me sometime to digest it all! 

[





> QUOTE=BhagatSingh;132407]
> 
> I still have to see what Kala Afghana has written but I have read Dr. Baldev Singh's article  several times now... I have to say I found it kind of funny this time  around. Now that I understand the Fact of Evolution and have some  understanding of Eastern Traditions (Budddhism, Hinduism and its  schools, Sikhism), I don't buy into his arguments. I am sure Dr Baldev  Singh ji is being quite honest with his interpretations of Gurbani but I  am not so sure if they are correct at all. In fact, they have been  interpreted with scientific glasses, which simply gives a scientific  overtone to all verses he presents. and such overtones are just not  there in the original. A simple fact of history that Modern Science is fairly recent  compared to Guru Nanak's time, puts doubt on interpreting Sri Guru Granth Sahib  scientifically. You just won't get the right interpretation if you  interpret it in a modern context, and so Dr. Baldev Singh's article is  what you would expect as a result, in hindsight.




Is it fair to discount science completely? A lot of the Guru Granth Sahib is very logical and makes sense. Why shouldn't gurbani be interpreted according to logic? Certainly historical context matters but is that the only concext that can be used?




> I think G Singh's Post (provided by Dalbirk ji here i nthe thread)  pretty much explains reincarnation in Sikhism. There IS a belief in  reincarnation and transmigration of souls.


But aren't reincarnation and transmigration of souls 2 completely different concepts? Do they have to be interrelated?
 ----------------------------



> Dr Baldev Singh ji says:
> 
> I am not so sure of this actually. This is one of the assumptions Singh  makes in his article. I am not so sure Guru Nanak rejected the caste  system, he certainly rejected the discrimination based on caste system.  Races aren't like castes but if one takes the analogy at the  superficially, then Guru Nanak was against Racism not the idea that  there are separate races. Although, back in the day, castes would be  considered no different to races.


I disagree. IMHO Guru Nanak Dev Ji recongnised that caste was different to race adn was used as a means of discrimination. After having travelled so widely, I think Guru Nanak would be very wise to different races, which is effectively genetic differences whereas caste differences were applied across races in India according to status. South and north Indians are different races and this difference is visible. The difference in high and low caste is not visible except by manmade marks.



> As per the following Verse, we see Guru Nanak ji is not rejecting castes:
> 
> 
> 
> In this verse, Guru Ramdas ji says that castes were created by God.


The verses you quote, I would interpret them completely differently. To me they say God has created all so why see differences (and therefore reject the caste system). Incidentally the word varan in one of your quotes can also mean colour so maybe that line is actually referring to race rather than caste??
How do you explain these quotes?
PkV jwqI PkVu nwau ]
sBnw jIAw iekw Cwau ]
Awphu jy ko Blw khwey ]
nwnk qw pru jwpY jw piq lyKY pwey ]1]
Worthless is the caste and worthless is the status attached to
it, as the Protector of all is One. “One may consider oneself
high, but Nanak says, “High is the one who is approved by
God.” AGGS, M 1, p. 83.
kc pkweI EQY pwie ]
nwnk gieAw jwpY jwie ]34]
Nanak, whether one is inferior or superior is found out when
one goes to the court of God (when one is tested on the
touchstone of Truth). AGGS, Jap 34, p. 7.
jwxhu joiq n pUChu jwqI AwgY jwiq n hy ]1] rhwau ]
 Recognize the Light that is present in all. Do not ask anyone's
caste as there is no caste under God’s domain. AGGS, M 1,
p. 349.
Ksmu ivswrih qy kmjwiq ]
nwnk nwvY bwJu snwiq ]4]3]
Those who forget God are degenerate. O Nanak, without
contemplation on God one is low/outcaste. AGGS, M 1, p. 10
and p. 349.
jwqI dY ikAw hiQ scu prKIAY ]
mhurw hovY hiQ mrIAY cKIAY ]
What good is caste/social status? One’s true worth is
determined by Truth/truthful living. Caste/social status is like
holding poison in hand. If one tastes it, one dies. AGGS, M 1,
p. 142.
AgY jwiq n joru hY AgY jIau nvy ]
ijn kI lyKY piq pvY cMgy syeI kyie ]3]
Caste or worldly power is of no avail--under God’s domain
rules are different. Only those are honored there, who earn
merit through truthful living! AGGS, M 1, p. 469.
AY jI nw hm auqm nIc n miDm hir srxwgiq hir ky log ]
 Respected one, I am neither of high nor low nor medium
caste; I serve God, Who is my Protector. AGGS, M 1, p. 504.




> Singh then argues that:
> Hence, essence of God is present in everything. We call it  soul when it is specifically present in life. It does not have to be  consciousness, in that sense.
> BTW contrary to what Singh seems to believe, this is exactly what Hindu  tradtions also say about the soul, and it does not contradict with  reincarnation.
> 
> In Sri Guru Granth Sahib, soul is not separate from God but it does have to suffer during life. Reincarnation means that the soul has to suffer over and over again. The discipline of Bhagati is ultimately meant to release  the soul from the the cycle of births and deaths, from the suffering.


Why can the purpose of being a gurmukh not be to be released from pain and suffering in the current life? 

A number of other posts have mentioned that without reincarnation there is no point to be a better person but I do not understand this viewpoint so please could someone explain further? Does the reward of no longer suffering once you realise the lord not bear enough fruit. This is what Anand Sahib talks about. Why can that not be our aim for this lifetime, why focus on the next lifetime? Why is the reward of being a better person and experiencing true happiness in our lifetime not enough reward?  

Will return with more thoughts later


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## findingmyway (Aug 31, 2010)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Sadh Sangat,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> ...




Birds do not have wombs which is why they lay eggs externally


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## findingmyway (Aug 31, 2010)

Tejwant Singh Ji,
I am looking forward to your posts and your take on things.

Another thought has just struck me. People in support of the traditional view of reincarnation often cite karam determining into how much comfort one is subsequently born into. In gurbani it clearly states that you do not take material wealth with you after death. However, the traditional view does not strictly follow this as if you are a good person, you supposedly are born into a good house with many comforts????


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## Tejwant Singh (Aug 31, 2010)

findingmyway said:


> Birds do not have wombs which is why they lay eggs externally



Jasleenji- Findingmywayji ( a beautiful name),

Guru Fateh.

This forum allows me to think aloud and that is all what I do. We all have the same tool box in the form of SGGS, our only Guru. This is our only GPS through which we can find our way. No pun intended.

As many amphibians and reptiles including birds do not have wombs, so does that mean that these joons are out of our reach during reincarnation?

Can we erase them from our reincarnation slate?

The Essay by G Singh insists that we go back to the womb.

Too bad, I wanted to come like Guru Gobind Singh's falcon one day but it seems that this is not possible anymore.

Tejwant Singh


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## BhagatSingh (Sep 1, 2010)

Randip Singh ji


Randip Singh said:


> Then that would imply they believed in a caste system too right?


Hmm...
I think there are two ways of opposing the caste system.
1. You oppose the evils that result from the system.
2. You oppose the entire system itself.

Which one do you think Guru Sahib is opposing? and why do you think so?
-------------------
Tejwant Singh ji,
If I may ask you a question as well.
Do you think that if we took the word womb to mean "a part of anatomy from where life ultimately comes out of", which could apply to any life, do you think that this definition would undercut G Singh's position?


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 1, 2010)

Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:



> Tejwant Singh ji,
> If I may ask you a question as well.
> Do you think that if we took the word womb to mean "a part of anatomy  from where life ultimately comes out of", which could apply to any life,  do you think that this definition would undercut G Singh's position?


Are you using womb as a metaphor or a biological part of the body? And how is G Singh  using the same word?

Only when you explain that, then we can discuss about it further.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## BhagatSingh (Sep 2, 2010)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Bhagat Singh ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> ...


I think G Singh understands womb the way I do. He says:


> Going into “garbh” is not a metaphor, it is all about taking birth through a mother; it is that simple.


----------



## Tejwant Singh (Sep 2, 2010)

> I think G Singh understands womb the way I do. He says:
> Quote:
> Going into “garbh” is not a metaphor, it is all about taking birth through a mother; it is that simple.


Would you call an egg  laid by a reptile or a bird  taking  birth through a mother even before it is hatched?


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## BhagatSingh (Sep 2, 2010)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Would you call an egg  laid by a reptile or a bird  taking  birth through a mother even before it is hatched?


Why not?
After all, in (most) mammals the fertilization of the egg takes place inside, and in birds and reptiles it takes place outside. The source of life is still the womb (of the mother).


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 2, 2010)

BhagatSingh said:


> Why not?
> After all, in (most) mammals the fertilization of the egg takes place inside, and in birds and reptiles it takes place outside. The source of life is still the womb.



Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I beg to differ with you.

It is not life yet. Life only begins after the egg is hatched. It is a potential life if not eaten by some predators which is not the case of someone being nurtured in the womb until a miscarriage takes place which is totally a different thing than the predator eating or eggs getting smashed due o the weight of the amount being laid..

Many of us eat organic eggs of many reptiles and birds. Do you think we are eating life? If we are, then what bad karams have  they committed in their past lives to become our favourite dish?

Tejwant singh


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## BhagatSingh (Sep 2, 2010)

Tejwant Singh ji,
I understand you so far, please continue.


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## Santokh Singh1989 (Sep 2, 2010)

I have a few questions, if i may humbly ask them, for those people who do not believe in transmigration and/or reincarnation in the traditional sense, (traditonal sense being the body dies and as per their karma, their soul transfers to another life form, be it plant, animal, human, etc). They will be straightforward. 

What do you believe happens to the soul after the body dies? 

Where does it go if anywhere? and

Is there any such thing as negetive reprocutions for our actions outside of the life we currently live?

Thank you.

Regards.


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## Randip Singh (Sep 2, 2010)

BhagatSingh said:


> Randip Singh ji<?"urn:fficeffice" />





BhagatSingh said:


> Hmm...
> I think there are two ways of opposing the caste system.
> 1. You oppose the evils that result from the system.
> 2. You oppose the entire system itself.
> ...



<o> </o>
Come on, stop playing games welcomemunda
<o> </o>
The question is what YOU think so, not me!!!
<o> </o>
I do not have a problem with understanding why the Guru’s theory of Karma and Reincarnation was fundamentally different from Hinduism, but you clearly do.
<o> </o>
The question is why do YOU think they either:
<o> </o>
1) Opposed the evils of the caste system.
<o> </o>
Or
<o> </o>
2) Opposed the entire system.
<o> </o>
My view is clear. They didn’t believe in Karma (in the same way as Hinduism), hence they didn’t believe in the caste system.


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## findingmyway (Sep 2, 2010)

BhagatSingh said:


> Randip Singh ji
> 
> Hmm...
> I think there are two ways of opposing the caste system.
> ...



Is there anything good about the caste system? What is the purpose of it outside of repression? I know it didn't start as a repressive force but by Guru Ji's time it was too far down the path of repression to reverse it. It was no longer a socially functioning system. The quotes you gave in earlier posts in support of the caste system just say to me that God created all, not that the Guru's supported the caste system! Please expand on your view.......


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## findingmyway (Sep 2, 2010)

Santokh Singh1989 said:


> I have a few questions, if i may humbly ask them, for those people who do not believe in transmigration and/or reincarnation in the traditional sense, (traditonal sense being the body dies and as per their karma, their soul transfers to another life form, be it plant, animal, human, etc). They will be straightforward.
> 
> What do you believe happens to the soul after the body dies?
> 
> ...




There is currently a debate about what soul is on another thread so this is worth visiting also:
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/new-to-sikhism/26496-why-desire-to-end-reincarnation.html

If the soul is in a mountain or tree, can it have good or bad effects?? I like to think with each birth that the slate is wiped clean and we can earn our way to liberation from dukh! Babies are called innocent as they have no karam yet. If they are affected by previous lives then we can't call them innocent!

I felt inspired after watching the movie Avatar yesterday. I like the concept in there that the soul is borrowed energy from the creator. This energy should be used responsibly as it will one day be returned


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 2, 2010)

BhagatSingh said:


> Tejwant Singh ji,
> I understand you so far, please continue.



Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I have said what  I had to say and even asked you a question. 

So, please carry on.

Tejwant Singh


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 2, 2010)

Santokh Singh1989 said:


> I have a few questions, if i may humbly ask them, for those people who do not *believe* in transmigration and/or reincarnation in the traditional sense, (traditonal sense being the body dies and as per their karma, their soul transfers to another life form, be it plant, animal, human, etc). They will be straightforward.
> 
> What do you *believe* happens to the soul after the body dies?
> 
> ...



Santokh Singh ji,

Guru Fateh. Welcome to the forum which is like a perfect family. By that I mean is, that disagreements can only happen in a perfect family and they are also the way of learning process. After all we are all Sikhs,learners, seekers.

Secondly, the first and second words in SGGS, our only Guru, indicate what we as Sikhs,seekers are looking for. Ik Ong Kaar= One Source of all there is, SatNaam= Truth is its manifestation. Then the first pauri of Jap what is normally known as Japji describes this manifestation of Truth.

You have used a very interesting and commonly used word in dogmatic religions which is *Believe*.

Believe has many meanings as I am sure you are aware of but in the religious sense it means something that can not be proven, hence more likely not true, like Hell and Heaven as real places believed by many dogmatic religions.

Truth stands on its own. It needs no belief as the Mool Mantar and Japji then the rest of SGGS, our only Guru, show us.

Now, coming back to your original question, I have said this many times and will repeat again that Reincarnation is just a fancy word for recycling. The Awe! & The Wow! factors that we are surrounded by whether organic or  inorganic and as Ik Ong Kaar's omnipresence is there in both, get recycled.

I tend to use a line by a song from the 60's group named, Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes:

"It is  the law of the land whether you like it or you understand".

Now, if we are looking for a pragmatic answer, then the answer is that no one knows the real answer, it is all speculation, hence *The Belief.* 

But the interesting part is that  our Gurus give us the solution and the formula that teaches us how to get rid  of this Belief. That is by being a Sikh and following Gurus' message in order to find connection with Ik Ong Kaar. All Shabads that talk about reincarnation in the SGGS, end with this indication of the solution.

Thanks for the question and by that allowing me to think aloud.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## spnadmin (Sep 2, 2010)

jasleen ji/findingmywayji

My own thinking about the soul has been moving in the direction that you describe for almost a year now. Borrowed "energy" if you like or perhaps borrowed consciousness. But imho we give back what we borrow when we die. The soul's energy returns after we die. The soul reincarnates in that sense. However, my thinking at this time is that it is not a "personal" soul because it was not ours to begin with. That is where my thinking is at this time.

In other words I do not own or possess my soul but received it at birth from a much larger ocean of "energy." Still struggling with exactly what to call it, but "energy" is good enough for now.


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 2, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> jasleen ji/findingmywayji
> 
> My own thinking about the soul has been moving in the direction that you describe for almost a year now. Borrowed "energy" if you like or perhaps borrowed consciousness. But imho we give back what we borrow when we die. The soul's energy returns after we die. The soul reincarnates in that sense. However, my thinking at this time is that it is not a "personal" soul because it was not ours to begin with. That is where my thinking is at this time.
> 
> In other words I do not own or possess my soul but received it at birth from a much larger ocean of "energy." Still struggling with exactly what to call it, but "energy" is good enough for now.



Narayanjot ji,

Guru Fateh.

Well said and I agree with you both. 

Soul is nothing but a lump of energy that leaves our bodies and merges with the bigger energy. Yes, it was borrowed/given/bestowed. So, now the question arises how does this lump of  invisible energy suffer? Our human concept of soul suffering is a bit screwed up. What are we trying to say here? If  some souls suffer and others do not, then are these lumps are all separate  floating in the Universe like flying saucers? Does that mean that the suffering souls and the happy  ones have some form?

Or are we just a tiny part of this Awe! and Wow! factors that surround us?

Just thinking aloud!

Tejwant Sinngh


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## spnadmin (Sep 2, 2010)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Narayanjot ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> ...



Tejwant ji

Thank you for opening up this angle to the discussion.

I do not think the soul suffers.  Where did the idea of a suffering soul come from?

In my limited view: *The mind suffers.* Or better put, the mind thinks that it suffers.


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## findingmyway (Sep 2, 2010)

I agree. So many shabads talk about controlling our mind that surely it follows that the mind is what is suffering. The mind suffers from delusion which causes barriers in thinking and therefore we think we are separated from Ik Onkar. However, if our soul is borrowed 'energy' it is never separated from the creator! Maybe Ik-jivan ji can elaborate on this further from the research? Does gurbani talk about the soul suffering in addition to the mind suffering?
Jasleen


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## Randip Singh (Sep 3, 2010)

findingmyway said:


> Is there anything good about the caste system? What is the purpose of it outside of repression? I know it didn't start as a repressive force but by Guru Ji's time it was too far down the path of repression to reverse it. It was no longer a socially functioning system. The quotes you gave in earlier posts in support of the caste system just say to me that God created all, not that the Guru's supported the caste system! Please expand on your view.......


 
Exactly!!

The Hindu notion of Karma and the notion of Reincarnation is fundemental to the caste system.

There is a Karmic order in Hinduism.

*Rock>Plant>Animal>Untouchable>Sudra>Vaish>Kshatria> Brahmin*

Sikhism doen not believe in a hierarchy and hence the caste system:

*Animal*
*Plant >>>>>> Human*
*Rock*

It sees Humans at one level, and everything else below that.


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## BhagatSingh (Sep 3, 2010)

Randip Singh said:


> <o> </o>
> Come on, stop playing games welcomemunda
> <o> </o>
> The question is what YOU think so, not me!!!
> ...


Haha, I am not playing games. I was hoping to get some motivation from your reply to get up off my a** to look into this. I don't think I have a cogent argument to back up my view yet.

Anyways, as I have said earlier, that I am not sure whether Gurus are outright rejecting the caste system itself. I am certain though that they are rejecting the evils that stem from it.


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## dalbirk (Sep 3, 2010)

Dear Tejwant Ji ,
          G Singh ji has taken Prof Sahib Singh Ji's translations word by word . Can you just take some time out to see what Prof Sahib Singh Ji is saying in the following links . Kindly see the following link & search for the pages G Singh ji has mentioned .
http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0762.html
   Now IMHO each one of us on this forum SPN belives that Prof Sahib Singh's translation of SGGS as the ultimate we as Sikhs have come upto in last 300+ years . Can we search Guru Granth Darpan to see about not only transmigration of human soul ( also called by some as reincarnation of soul ) , the definition of SOUL , KARMA , CASTE SYSTEM seems like a whole can of worms have been opened . Sikhism is certainly not ATHEISM & soul is definitely not a BUNDLE OF ENERGY by any means .


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 3, 2010)

dalbirk said:


> Dear Tejwant Ji ,
> G Singh ji has taken Prof Sahib Singh Ji's translations word by word . Can you just take some time out to see what Prof Sahib Singh Ji is saying in the following links . Kindly see the following link & search for the pages G Singh ji has mentioned .
> http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0762.html
> Now IMHO each one of us on this forum SPN belives that Prof Sahib Singh's translation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib as the ultimate we as Sikhs have come upto in last 300+ years . Can we search Guru Granth Darpan to see about not only transmigration of human soul ( also called by some as reincarnation of soul ) , the definition of SOUL , KARMA , CASTE SYSTEM seems like a whole can of worms have been opened . Sikhism is certainly not ATHEISM & soul is definitely not a BUNDLE OF ENERGY by any means .




Dalbirk ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the response but unfortunately, my questions posed have not been answered.

Once, when I found G. Singh's interpretation not up to par, I suggested him in this forum to consult Prof. Sahib Singh's Guru Granth Darpan. He said that he does not consult any translation because Guru has given him the understanding. I tried but could not locate the post. May be you or someone else can. But that is not the point.

The point is that your own contention claims that now after this essay by G Singh ji, the subject of reincarnation has been settled. It is more of a declaration on your part. But, unfortunately Sikhi is based on learning all our lives, so we learn and discover new things from Gurbani everyday. Do you mean that we should stop talking about Reincarnation which he has changed to incarnation because according to your declaration the dispute is settled, thanks to G. Singh ji? I am a bit baffled at your comments.I have no idea what you mean by that and would like you to elaborate it.

In fact, when I interpret a Shabad in my own words, at times after consulting most of the translations including Prof. Sahib's, I myself do not agree at times of his explanation, but consulting what others have written gives me some idea about the Shabad. The beauty of Sikhi is that nothing is etched on stone which can not be erased. If that were true, Guru Gobind Singh ji could have offered the interpretation of SGGS,our only Guru to us in the form of prose on a platter.But that did not happen,on purpose. The name Sikh means for us to question, learn, unlearn and relearn daily.

You write:



> the definition of SOUL , KARMA , CASTE SYSTEM seems like a whole can of  worms have been opened . Sikhism is certainly not ATHEISM & soul is  definitely not a BUNDLE OF ENERGY by any means.



I would not call "SOUL,KARMA,CASTE SYSTEM seem like a whole can of worms has been opened" because they are parts of SGGS, our only Guru, but that is your choice of words,not mine.

No one said that Sikhism is Atheism, but to the contrary. The thread "Is there God", and posts written in there including by myself should have given you that indication. I have no idea if you have gone through the whole thread or not, if not, I would urge you to do that and comment on it, so we can learn from you.

Dalbarik ji, I have a request to make to you. Please explain in your own words what are SOUL AND  KARMA? What do you understand by them? If SOUL is NOT a BUNDLE OF ENERGY, then what is it? It must be something or someone. Right?

Please, respond to my questions posted earlier, from your own Gurmat opinion including the one about the womb that I posted later.

Please participate as part of the Sadh Sangat so all of us collectively can learn from each other.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh


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## findingmyway (Sep 20, 2010)

G Singh Ji,
I have been pondering over your essay for sometime. The beauty of poetry is that it can be interpreted in many ways including literally or metaphorically. I am posting one of the shabads you took a tuk from and presenting an alternate understanding as I don't think things are written in black and white. If I have the wrong end of the stick, someone please let me know! This shabad is from panaa 717

ਟੋਡੀ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੫  ॥ ਮਾਈ  ਮੇਰੇ  ਮਨ  ਕੋ  ਸੁਖੁ  ॥ ਕੋਟਿ  ਅਨੰਦ  ਰਾਜ  ਸੁਖੁ  ਭੁਗਵੈ  ਹਰਿ  ਸਿਮਰਤ  ਬਿਨਸੈ  ਸਭ  ਦੁਖੁ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥ 
ਕੋਟਿ  ਜਨਮ  ਕੇ  ਕਿਲਬਿਖ  ਨਾਸਹਿ  ਸਿਮਰਤ  ਪਾਵਨ  ਤਨ  ਮਨ  ਸੁਖ  ॥ ਦੇਖਿ  ਸਰੂਪੁ  ਪੂਰਨੁ  ਭਈ  ਆਸਾ  ਦਰਸਨੁ  ਭੇਟਤ  ਉਤਰੀ  ਭੁਖ  ॥੧॥ 
ਚਾਰਿ  ਪਦਾਰਥ  ਅਸਟ  ਮਹਾ  ਸਿਧਿ  ਕਾਮਧੇਨੁ  ਪਾਰਜਾਤ  ਹਰਿ  ਹਰਿ  ਰੁਖੁ  ॥ ਨਾਨਕ  ਸਰਨਿ  ਗਹੀ  ਸੁਖ  ਸਾਗਰ  ਜਨਮ  ਮਰਨ  ਫਿਰਿ  ਗਰਭ  ਨ  ਧੁਖੁ  ॥੨॥੧੦॥੨੯॥ 

tt*o*dd*ee* mehal*aa* 5 ||
m*aa**ee* m*ae*r*ae* man k*o* s*u*kh ||
k*o*tt ana(n)dh r*aa*j s*u*kh bh*u*gav*ai* har s*i*marath b*i*nas*ai* sabh dh*u*kh ||1|| reh*aa*o ||
k*o*tt janam k*ae* k*i*lab*i*kh n*aa*seh*i* s*i*marath p*aa*van than man s*u*kh ||
dh*ae*kh sar*oo*p p*oo*ran bh*ee* *aa*s*aa* dharasan bh*ae*ttath o*u*thar*ee* bh*u*kh ||1||
ch*aa*r padh*aa*rathh asatt meh*aa* s*i*dhh k*aa*madhh*ae*n p*aa*raj*aa*th har har r*u*kh ||
n*aa*nak saran geh*ee* s*u*kh s*aa*gar janam maran f*i*r garabh n dhh*u*kh ||2||10||29||

Meditating on God (naam japna which is much more than the common concept of meditation but I don;t know how to express in English), I feel very happy and at peace, the happiness felt by a thousand kings. The body and mind (soul) become pure and I feel at peace (spiritual peace rather than worldly ease). Pain has departed (spiritual pain not worldly pain) Rahao. Previous 'sins' (I can't think of a better English word) are erased. With God's blessing, the worldly hunger that cannot be assuaged is eliminated. This is one of the soul's wishes, all of which are granted. God has given the 4 treasures of substance, wealth, blessing and treasure as well as 8 great supernatural powers as well as the elysian cow (from hindu mythology) as well as the benefactor of the mystical tree from the garden of Indra (hindu mythology). Whoever has taken God's support will not go through the cycle of lives.

The central theme of this shabad when viewed as a whole is not reincarnation but focussing on God. The rest of the shabad explains why this is important-to obtain peace and leave your worries behind. The final line which contains the reference to the womb also contains reference to mythological entities. We accept that they aren't real but are used as analogies to demonstrate the greatness of God. By that logic I see the womb also being used as an analogy in this line so people can understand better that the ups and downs of everyday life are equivalent to dying and rebirth. To escape this cycle is what we need to do so that we always remain at peace in our lives in a spiritual way. You have to work hard to achieve this and that is why the result is so wonderful for the rest of your life-you leave your past behind (previous sins)

:feedback:


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## spnadmin (Sep 20, 2010)

findingmyway ji

Here is one reaction. Would you elaborate more on your vichaar of this line
ਨਾਨਕ  ਸਰਨਿ  ਗਹੀ  ਸੁਖ  ਸਾਗਰ  ਜਨਮ  ਮਰਨ  ਫਿਰਿ  ਗਰਭ  ਨ  ਧੁਖੁ  ॥੨॥੧੦॥੨੯॥ 
naanak saran gehee sukh saagar janam maran fir garabh n dhhukh ||2||10||29||


"janam maran" is what most take to be a direct reference to the cycle of life and death, and therefore reincarnation. You are coming up with a different emphasis from the  surrounding words, from the context, to arrive at your understanding. It would be helpful if you would elaborate.


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## findingmyway (Sep 21, 2010)

spnadmin said:


> findingmyway ji
> 
> Here is one reaction. Would you elaborate more on your vichaar of this line
> ਨਾਨਕ  ਸਰਨਿ  ਗਹੀ  ਸੁਖ  ਸਾਗਰ  ਜਨਮ  ਮਰਨ  ਫਿਰਿ  ਗਰਭ  ਨ  ਧੁਖੁ  ॥੨॥੧੦॥੨੯॥
> ...



Thank you for the feedback. I am still trying to figure out which is the best way to interpret gurbani so am thinking out aloud as to whether there is another way of looking at things! The emphasis is always on looking at the shabad as a whole and the I've often noticed that taking single lines is misleading-at the minimum a couplet should be analysed all together.

When you take the above tuk alone, it certainly does seem to support reincarnation when translated literally. However, when you look at the line above (the other half of the couplet) a lot of mythological concepts are alluded to so they are not meant to be taken literally. Then it could be possible that this half of the couplet is also an analogy and not meant to be taken literally? It has been proposed by several people that janam maran refers to the phases during our lifetime. So according to this theory we can then look at the pain from the womb as an analogy. I'll try and explain. The common man at that time would have mainly had experience of new life in humans and mammals (eg cows). Therefore, they would have had experience of new life from the womb only and may not have been aware of life from an egg, seed etc. People would also have been familiar with the pain of childbirth either from experience or from hearing the shouts (no drugs available then)! So in that respect it could be a metaphorical way of illustrating the pain of going through several joons as the tuk refers specifically to the pain from the womb. Guru ji was very good at writing in a way that the common man could understand, using concepts they were familiar with but giving them another meaning.

The other reason for looking at the line in this way is that the tuk you show above is not the rahao line. The rahao line is always the central theme of the shabad and the rest is merely illustrating the point. In the case of this shabad, therefore the shabad is about obtaining peace while meditating on God. Therefore, the tuk above can be read metaphorically rather than literally as it is an illustration rather than a central theme. Hope that makes sense! Secondly, what is the point of meditating if you are only going to be rewarded in another life. In the rahao tuk, the Guru seems to be happy as he has obtained peace now-he talks in the present tense not the future (however i am not an expert in grammar so may have got this wrong).

I am merely thinking out loud. If what I have said does not make sense, feel free to correct me! Thank you for the opportunity to expand on my musings. I do not know which is the correct interpretation. Perhaps someone more learned such as Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji can enlighten us further?



p.s. Mai Ji-I would love a smiley of a gorilla scratching its head


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## spnadmin (Sep 21, 2010)

findinmyway ji

Thank you for your time spent thinking about this out loud with us. 

I hope it is clear that I deliberately pulled that line from the shabad so that it would be easier to see why there is  a widely held opinion, that janam maran should be understood literally as reference to reincarnation. 

_On the other side of the debate,_ quite as you say, many times,  references to the cycle of life and death, when separated from the context of the imagery of an entire shabad, and without reference to the rehao line, may lead to a literal understanding. And an acceptance of a literal reincarnation may not be correct.

Another question! Has the term jaanam maran ever appeared in the rehao line of a shabad.?  I would be curious to find out.  

It would make a difference if that were true.


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 21, 2010)

spnadmin said:


> findingmyway ji
> 
> Here is one reaction. Would you elaborate more on your vichaar of this line
> ਨਾਨਕ  ਸਰਨਿ  ਗਹੀ  ਸੁਖ  ਸਾਗਰ  ਜਨਮ  ਮਰਨ  ਫਿਰਿ  ਗਰਭ  ਨ  ਧੁਖੁ  ॥੨॥੧੦॥੨੯॥
> ...




Spnadmin ji,

Guru Fateh.

If we take the last tuk of the Shabad literally then it can only apply to women because giving birth is quite a painful thing which a man can never even fathom.

So, in other words, this Shabad has nothing to do with the Hindu belief of reincarnation which our Gurus did acknowledge and showed how deeply ingrained it is in the Hindu psyche.

Just thinking aloud!

Tejwant Singh


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 21, 2010)

findingmyway said:


> Thank you for the feedback. I am still trying to figure out which is the best way to interpret gurbani so am thinking out aloud as to whether there is another way of looking at things! The emphasis is always on looking at the shabad as a whole and the I've often noticed that taking single lines is misleading-at the minimum a couplet should be analysed all together.
> 
> When you take the above tuk alone, it certainly does seem to support reincarnation when translated literally. However, when you look at the line above (the other half of the couplet) a lot of mythological concepts are alluded to so they are not meant to be taken literally. Then it could be possible that this half of the couplet is also an analogy and not meant to be taken literally? It has been proposed by several people that janam maran refers to the phases during our lifetime. So according to this theory we can then look at the pain from the womb as an analogy. I'll try and explain. The common man at that time would have mainly had experience of new life in humans and mammals (eg cows). Therefore, they would have had experience of new life from the womb only and may not have been aware of life from an egg, seed etc. People would also have been familiar with the pain of childbirth either from experience or from hearing the shouts (no drugs available then)! So in that respect it could be a metaphorical way of illustrating the pain of going through several joons as the tuk refers specifically to the pain from the womb. Guru ji was very good at writing in a way that the common man could understand, using concepts they were familiar with but giving them another meaning.
> 
> ...



Findingway ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am not learned as Gyani ji but please allow me to give my 2 cent worth. Before we do that, I want to commend you for thinking out aloud and sharing your thirst to understand Gurbani or shall we put it to enjoy this multifaceted beautiful diamond. In order to do that, let's go back to the Shabad.

ਟੋਡੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਮਾਈ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਕੋ ਸੁਖੁ ॥ ਕੋਟਿ ਅਨੰਦ ਰਾਜ ਸੁਖੁ ਭੁਗਵੈ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਸਭ ਦੁਖੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 

Hey Mum,my mind is content, serene, at peace. It is so much at peace that it seems like as if I have reigned (as a caring King) on millions of kingdoms. I have found the true connection with Ik Ong Kaar which has made me bear all my pains with a smile as if they never existed.

Rahao is the nectar of the flower and rest of the verses act like petals. So, the main idea is that once we find the true connection with The Source, the world becomes a blissful place.

ਕੋਟਿ ਜਨਮ ਕੇ ਕਿਲਬਿਖ ਨਾਸਹਿ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਪਾਵਨ ਤਨ ਮਨ ਸੁਖ ॥

Here is the twist. If we see the above verse in a literal sense then we admit  (without any proof of course) that I have been a bad bad boy for millions of my previous lives which are unknown to me. I have no knowledge of these lives. Now the question arises that if I have been bad then by whose fault? Where was my Father- Ik Ong Kaar- then? Why did not He guide me towards the right path? After all it was His duty. Wasn't it? and Isn't it?

Now, if we take the above in a metaphorical manner then we can see this facet of the diamond through a completely different light.

So, let's try that. Shall we?

Mum, let me share another thing with you. I have come to the realisation that I have made millions of mistakes in my life. The admittance came after I found the connection with the ONE. And now due to this connection, I have been able to learn from my mistakes which has given me serenity, peace and it has taken all my guilts away. Finally, I am at peace with myself.

 ਦੇਖਿ ਸਰੂਪੁ ਪੂਰਨੁ ਭਈ ਆਸਾ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਭੇਟਤ ਉਤਰੀ ਭੁਖ ॥੧॥ 

Mum, the connection is so strong that I can feel it in all the pores of my body and hence, my hunger for the worldly futile things has been taken care of. It is satiated. In other words, due to this connection with The Source, I have been able to lasso the five thieves.


ਚਾਰਿ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਅਸਟ ਮਹਾ ਸਿਧਿ ਕਾਮਧੇਨੁ ਪਾਰਜਾਤ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰੁਖੁ ॥

The above is all about Hindu mythology as you have explained it so well in your post.

 ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਨਿ ਗਹੀ ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਫਿਰਿ ਗਰਭ ਨ ਧੁਖੁ ॥੨॥੧੦॥੨੯॥ 

Again, the above verse talks about multiple things. In literal sense, it seems as if Guru Sahib is talking about mother's pains in giving birth and then more pains due to the premature death of the child ( the norm is that our parents die before we do due to the age) and this cycle repeats itself non stop.

But that is not the case. If we go back and check the Rahao, it mentions about our peace of mind and serenity.

Oh, Nanak. The one who has found the true connection with Ik Ong Kaar and has found peace in oneself, he/she does not have to feel the pains as a mother does when she gives births.

ttoddee mehalaa 5 ||
maaee maerae man ko sukh ||
kott ana(n)dh raaj sukh bhugavai har simarath binasai sabh dhukh ||1|| rehaao ||
kott janam kae kilabikh naasehi simarath paavan than man sukh ||
dhaekh saroop pooran bhee aasaa dharasan bhaettath outharee bhukh ||1||
chaar padhaarathh asatt mehaa sidhh kaamadhhaen paarajaath har har rukh ||
naanak saran gehee sukh saagar janam maran fir garabh n dhhukh ||2||10||29||


Jasleen ji,

You are right. This Shabad has nothing to do with reincarnation but all to do with the connection with Ik Ong Kaar. 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Amarpal (Sep 21, 2010)

Dear Khalsa Ji,

In the text that follows, I share with you my very personal understanding about reincarnation; it is with this rational that i move forward with understanding Gurbani further.

I start with my very person idea of thought and then go over to the subject of this discussion: 

(i) All that we do through our Karmendriyas has its origin in thoughts - what we speak, what we do, where we go, indulge in reproduction activity or defecate, all have thought behind them.

(ii) Thought is generated in the functioning brain. The brain uses the energy received thought the processes of metabolism to function; Thought results as an output of functioning brain using this energy.

(iii) We all know energy cannot be created or destroyed; it can change form and even can be converted into material and vice versa. We all know that the thought is not material; hence if the input to the thought generating process is energy and the output is not material then thought too has to be some form of energy. Thus I conclude that Thought is a form of energy.

(iv) As mentioned earlier, energy cannot be created or destroyed; hence the Thought being a form of energy, once generated must remain floating around.

(v) This way, all the Thoughts generated in a functioning brain during this life time of remain in air. To this are added the Thoughts generated during the past birth.

(vi) Collectively this assemblage of thoughts defines the persons tendencies and desires. This entity in ancient scripture of the land, as I understand, must be what is referred to as 'Lingasarira'. 

(vii) From this assemblage of thoughts the soul concludes when it leaves the body,  as to the extent of mission has been achieved.

(viii) In case the conclusion is that the mission has failed, the person has strayed from the right path of its mission and accumulated negative Karmas, then the soul enters the form of body or many bodies successively, where these negative Karmas can be exhausted to enable the person to come back to the path of its original mission.

(ix) In case the conclusion is that the mission is partly achieved, then the souls enters a body through which the remaining part of the mission can be accomplished.

(x) In case the conclusion is that the mission is fully achieved then their is no need for rebirth; the soul merges with 'The Sat'.

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Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false"    UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/>  </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style>  /* Style Definitions */  table.MsoNormalTable 	{mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; 	mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; 	mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; 	mso-style-noshow:yes; 	mso-style-priority:99; 	mso-style-qformat:yes; 	mso-style-parent:""; 	mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; 	mso-para-margin-top:0in; 	mso-para-margin-right:0in; 	mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; 	mso-para-margin-left:0in; 	line-height:115%; 	mso-pagination:widow-orphan; 	font-size:11.0pt; 	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; 	mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; 	mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; 	mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; 	mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; 	mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; 	mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]-->  With this rational and consequent understanding, Reincarnation is no longer a belief for me; it is a *realisation*.[/FONT]


With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh


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## findingmyway (Sep 23, 2010)

Dear Amarpal Ji,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I always enjoy your posts but am a little confused by this one and would be grateful if you could elaborate using Gurbani. Looking at things from a biology perspective, I have added in my comments.



Amarpal said:


> Dear Khalsa Ji,
> 
> In the text that follows, I share with you my very personal understanding about reincarnation; it is with this rational that i move forward with understanding Gurbani further.
> 
> ...



best wishes,
jasleen


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## ik-jivan (Sep 24, 2010)

Actually, what Amarpal is talking about is scientifically and philosophically discussed in Information Theory, CEMI Theory, Theories of Consciousness, et cetera. All biological organisms operate off of electromagnetic energy. 

Amarpal’s thought approach those of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin and Vladimir Vernadsky as relates to the Noosphere, which is currently being researched as part of the Princeton Global Consciousness Project. That’s Princton University. CEMI Theory is the product of Johnjoe McFadden out of Surrey University in the UK.

Long before Pierre Teilhard de Chardin and Vladimir Vernadsky gave thought to the question of permanence of thought waves, the scribes of the Vedas wrote about it, naming it the Akashic Records. 

With the accelerated discoveries in Quantum Mechanics, the CERN LHC experiments with sound waves instead of photon particles, we are fast dissolving the notion that ‘if you can’t see it, touch it, smell it, tastes it, it’s not real’. Physics now recognises that consciousness and energy are intrinsic to the constructs of the material world.

FYI References:
Consciousness Based or Wireless?:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2002/05/52674
CEMI Theory:
http://www3.surrey.ac.uk/qe/pdfs/mcfadden_JCS2002b.pdf
Electromagnetic Theories of Consciousness:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_theories_of_consciousness
Noosphere: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noosphere
Akashic Records:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashic_records


I’ve reconciled the whole ‘mess’ this way: we’re a work-in-progress, a cultivation of consciousness . . . the Universal Consciousness. The One Consciousness is like a multi-processor computer and each entity is processing a small algorithm as part of The Program. When an algorithm finishes its calculation, it makes its final contribution, by storing its data bytes in memory and is silent as the other algorithms continue their calculations. The resources that the completed algorithm was using are freed up. The algorithm, as a ‘soul’, loses consciousness of self and is blended with the Source (The SAT).

Using this metaphor, reincarnation is simply the algorithm going through another iteration of the routine on a different range of data. The Program doesn’t have a form. It’s just electromagnetic data stored on media, which does have form. The media – hard drive, for instance – is unintelligent without the Operating System, which is the Laws of Nature and the Cosmic Law is The Program. Now, if the Operating System (Laws of Nature) needs a reboot, because of a power surge (5 evils) corrupted it, The Program Developer (God) restarts the machine and then continues working on The Program. Will The Program ever be finished? Sure. We’ve already had a few software releases, but every so often there will be an upgrade release. 

God, The Program Developer, is in The Program, just as a potter is in the pot he crafts. The Developer is also in the machine and hardware, which is the material world, because The Program is in the machine. Now, all programs have a purpose. The purpose of The Program is to create a 3-D image of the Program Developer, which is to say ‘manifest God in creation’. However, this is a ‘new software application’, it won’t be the last one release, because the Program Developer always wants to expand His knowledge and that is consciousness cultivation / evolution.

This computer analogy can even be used to represent human relations. . . we, the algorithms, are all handling the same 1’s and 0’s, but some might be handling a range of mainly 1’s and others, mainly 0’s. That’s the nature of our individual routines (personalities & philosophies). All algorithms are right and the only time there is a real conflict is when there is a resource sharing conflict. Some algorithms are suspended and have to wait until resources are free and the algorithm can resume its routine. That’s the equivalent of ‘death’, but there is no real death, as the algorithm (individual soul) just picks up where it left off (reincarnates) before it was suspended. Algorithms repeat (reincarnate) until their tasks are completed.



Sat Sri Akal,
t


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## findingmyway (Sep 25, 2010)

ik-jivan said:


> Actually, what Amarpal is talking about is scientifically and philosophically discussed in Information Theory, CEMI Theory, Theories of Consciousness, et cetera. All biological organisms operate off of electromagnetic energy.
> 
> Amarpal’s thought approach those of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin and Vladimir Vernadsky as relates to the Noosphere, which is currently being researched as part of the Princeton Global Consciousness Project. That’s Princton University. CEMI Theory is the product of Johnjoe McFadden out of Surrey University in the UK.
> 
> ...



The description you give of the creator here implies he is not perfect. Gurbani tells us that the creator is perfect and therefore there would not be any need for updates. He already knows everything and does not need to expand knowledge base. You also talk about a 3D image of the programme developer. However, mool mantar tells us that God has no form so this is not possible. My understanding is that God is in his creation to look after it rather than emulate himself. You talk about a resource sharing conflict. Does this mean there aren't enough souls for the bodies? With the expanding population does this mean more souls are being created even as some merge with the source as they become complete? If the algorithm retains memory then why cannot we remember our past lives? The other thing Gurbani talks about is how we can never fully understand his hukam so i guess we'll never really know whether this theory or any other theory about the after life is right!!!


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 26, 2010)

Findingmyway ji,

Guru fateh.

I  love your inquisitiveness,your deep desire to open as many windows for the forum members as your understanding of Gurmat will allow. The more you are able to open them within yourself, luckier we, as members of this wonderful forum will feel about Sikhi and  appreciate the true meaning of Sadh Sangat.

Thanks for your candor and well thought comments which are direct to the point. 

Ik Ong Kaar is not a lab experiment. Ik Ong Kaar _*IS.*_.

Thanks once again and regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Archived_member14 (Sep 27, 2010)

Last Saturday during our weekly discussions, there was one discussant from Japan visiting after 20 years but first studied this particular interpretation of the Buddha’s teachings 35 years ago. Currently he is the head of the Department of research in language, brain and cognition in one of the universities in Japan but will be retiring in a year or so and plans subsequently to become a novice in Thailand. 

At one point in the discussion this person said that he has doubts regarding ‘rebirth’ and wondered if this was a hindrance to any progress in the understanding of the Dharma on the whole. I quickly said, yes. Some of the points I brought up and some which I reflected on later are:

Doubt is a mental factor which is a big hindrance on the Path. However, it is to be expected that this will arise from time to time, for all of us who have not yet penetrated the Truth and become enlightened. The more the understanding is developed, the less the frequency of doubt about the nature of mind and matter. In this regard, doubt being another mental reality, knowing doubt as doubt increases both knowledge about mental realities in general, as well as the drawback of doubt itself.

In light of the above, rather than talk in terms of ‘persons’ having doubt, it is better to talk about this as being instances of the particular reality arising and falling away by conditions. This means that at any moment when otherwise there is right understanding about other aspects of the Dharma, at those instances wisdom is being developed and doubt is kept at bay. With this comes the inclination to study doubt when it arises which may otherwise be hidden as a result of labeling oneself as, “one who has doubt”, not to speak of when the conclusions made by doubt are adhered to.

In response to this latter, I pointed out the difference between 1. Blind acceptance and 2. Belief based on some preliminary level of understanding about the nature of mind and matter; and also to the difference between 3. Not knowing for sure because one knows oneself to have lots of ignorance / little understanding and 4. Outright disbelief. 

In the above the first and the last are more or less equally bad, whereas the second and third are signs of understanding. It would seem that ‘outright disbelief’ is a reaction to seeing ‘blind acceptance’ as the only other option. However, if one were to go a little deeper, it becomes apparent that this is actually due to belief in cause and effect as happens in this one lifetime alone, which in fact is an inclination towards an annihilation view or otherwise a myopic vision of things. 

In the case of the Japanese professor above, it seems that he was in fact missing the point of the Buddha’s teachings from the very outset. This is reflected in the fact that he was quite influenced by the findings of science as to think that the conclusions arrived at were of equal merit as that of the Buddha’s. Although he did make the distinction between direct understanding / insight and that of the study based on conventional observation and building up of concepts upon concepts and theories upon the other, he believed somehow, that the two may one day meet.  And this I strongly objected to, for obvious reasons.

With this it becomes evident that one aspect of the teachings when misunderstood influences other aspects and doubt will then arise casting a shadow, making it even harder to progress along the path of right understanding. 

Let us now go on to the idea of rebirth, what is it?
But first of all allow me to show the difference between rebirth and the idea of reincarnation.
Rebirth is based on the fact of Conditionality. One example of this is that consciousness and its mental concomitants arises by conditions and falls away completely but would necessarily condition the next mind moment on and on. This is contiguity condition and is one of 24 kinds of conditions. Karma is another kind of condition, the main one involved in rebirth. There are ever just these conditions, nothing continuing from one moment to the next which is unchanged. 

Reincarnation on the other hand, posits some selfsame entity such as ‘soul’ continuing from one moment to the next and from life to life. Hence with regard to the idea of being reborn again, several problems arise given that we begin with a belief in that which can’t be directly observed ever, re: the soul.     

But rebirth, this being based on the understanding of mind and matter arising from moment to moment, the characteristic, function and proximate cause, questioning and discarding it is in fact indicative of a problem on the part of those who do so! After all what do they know about the nature of that by which any thoughts arise at all, including those which lead to the questioning of rebirth? As far as I am concerned, it is symptomatic of the uninstructed that having a wrong understanding of the way things are, it automatically relies on past knowledge for explanations, ones that are never about the realities of the present moment. 

We are swimming in the ocean of concepts, many of which are a result of the influence of science. And like science, we incline to explain everything away in terms of one theory or another, but never with any curiosity as to what goes on *now*. Even in principle, there is no inclination to study mind as an “element”, but only after reducing it to being a product of materiality, as in the case of all these studies about ‘brain’, we go by inferences based on even more concepts! Likewise ‘birth’, which in reality is a type of consciousness, science moves around concepts based on a materialistic outlook and rests satisfied with this. No mind to study the nature of seeing consciousness, hearing consciousness, thinking, attachment, kindness and so on. No clue, yet think it knows the truth.

But of course we can’t blame science. That we go along with its explanations is because deep down we have the same / similar view about what goes on, not at the level of details, but that of perception which happen from moment to moment. Indeed, all our theories and justifications are meant to feed and hence perpetuate these misperceptions, so to speak. There seems to be an attempt here to interpret Guru Nanak’s teachings on karma and rebirth in accordance to one’s own misunderstandings. This is not doing anyone any good. It reminds me of what I label; “modern commentators” in my own tradition, those who clearly have not had a moment of insight, but go on to be critical of the ancients, who on their part show not only deep understanding, but also compassion towards those of us who lack the necessary wisdom.


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## findingmyway (Oct 4, 2010)

spnadmin said:


> findinmyway ji
> 
> Thank you for your time spent thinking about this out loud with us.
> 
> ...



I went through all the quotes given in the article by G Singh referring to the womb. None of them are in the rahao line. All of them work beautifully when the womb is used as an analogy for the pain of transition so cannot be used as definitive proof for reincarnation but supports rebirth as illustrated above.


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## Harry Haller (Jul 10, 2014)

posted by kggr001 ji


ਨਾਨਕ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਪਰਮ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥੪॥੪੩॥੫੪॥ नानक ता की परम गति होइ ॥४॥४३॥५४॥ Nānak ṯā kī param gaṯ ho▫e. ||4||43||54|| O Nanak, they attain the supreme status. ||4||43||54||
ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ रामकली महला ५ ॥ Rāmkalī mėhlā 5. Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:
ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋ ਥੀਆ ॥ जो तिसु भावै सो थीआ ॥ Jo ṯis bẖāvai so thī▫ā. Whatever pleases Him happens.
ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਸਰਣਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਆਨ ਬੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ सदा सदा हरि की सरणाई प्रभ बिनु नाही आन बीआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Saḏā saḏā har kī sarṇā▫ī parabẖ bin nāhī ān bī▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o. Forever and ever, I seek the Sanctuary of the Lord. There is none other than God. ||1||Pause||
ਪੁਤੁ ਕਲਤ੍ਰੁ ਲਖਿਮੀ ਦੀਸੈ ਇਨ ਮਹਿ ਕਿਛੂ ਨ ਸੰਗਿ ਲੀਆ ॥ पुतु कलत्रु लखिमी दीसै इन महि किछू न संगि लीआ ॥ Puṯ kalaṯar lakẖimī ḏīsai in mėh kicẖẖū na sang lī▫ā. You look upon your children, spouse and wealth; none of these will go along with you.
ਬਿਖੈ ਠਗਉਰੀ ਖਾਇ ਭੁਲਾਨਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਗਇਆ ॥੧॥ बिखै ठगउरी खाइ भुलाना माइआ मंदरु तिआगि गइआ ॥१॥ Bikẖai ṯẖag▫urī kẖā▫e bẖulānā mā▫i▫ā manḏar ṯi▫āg ga▫i▫ā. ||1|| Eating the poisonous potion, you have gone astray. You will have to go, and leave Maya and your mansions. ||1||
ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਵਿਗੂਤਾ ਗਰਭ ਜੋਨਿ ਮਹਿ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਪਇਆ ॥ निंदा करि करि बहुतु विगूता गरभ जोनि महि किरति पइआ ॥ Ninḏā kar kar bahuṯ vigūṯā garabẖ jon mėh kiraṯ pa▫i▫ā. Slandering others, you are totally ruined; because of your past actions, you shall be consigned to the womb of reincarnation.
ਪੁਰਬ ਕਮਾਣੇ ਛੋਡਹਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਮਦੂਤਿ ਗ੍ਰਾਸਿਓ ਮਹਾ ਭਇਆ ॥੨॥ पुरब कमाणे छोडहि नाही जमदूति ग्रासिओ महा भइआ ॥२॥ Purab kamāṇe cẖẖodėh nāhī jamḏūṯ garāsi▫o mahā bẖa▫i▫ā. ||2|| Your past actions will not just go away; the most horrible Messenger of Death shall seize you. ||2||
ਬੋਲੈ ਝੂਠੁ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਅਵਰਾ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਨ ਬੂਝੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਹਇਆ ॥ बोलै झूठु कमावै अवरा त्रिसन न बूझै बहुतु हइआ ॥ Bolai jẖūṯẖ kamāvai avrā ṯarisan na būjẖai bahuṯ ha▫i▫ā. You tell lies, and do not practice what you preach. Your desires are not satisfied - what a shame.
ਅਸਾਧ ਰੋਗੁ ਉਪਜਿਆ ਸੰਤ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਦੇਹ ਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਮਹਾ ਖਇਆ ॥੩॥ असाध रोगु उपजिआ संत दूखनि देह बिनासी महा खइआ ॥३॥ Asāḏẖ rog upji▫ā sanṯ ḏūkẖan ḏeh bināsī mahā kẖa▫i▫ā. ||3|| You have contracted an incurable disease; slandering the Saints, your body is wasting away; you are utterly ruined. ||3||
ਜਿਨਹਿ ਨਿਵਾਜੇ ਤਿਨ ਹੀ ਸਾਜੇ ਆਪੇ ਕੀਨੇ ਸੰਤ ਜਇਆ ॥ जिनहि निवाजे तिन ही साजे आपे कीने संत जइआ ॥ Jinėh nivāje ṯin hī sāje āpe kīne sanṯ ja▫i▫ā. He embellishes those whom He has fashioned. He Himself gave life to the Saints.
ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸ ਕੰਠਿ ਲਾਇ ਰਾਖੇ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਇਆ ॥੪॥੪੪॥੫੫॥ नानक दास कंठि लाइ राखे करि किरपा पारब्रहम मइआ ॥४॥४४॥५५॥ Nānak ḏās kanṯẖ lā▫e rākẖe kar kirpā pārbarahm ma▫i▫ā. ||4||44||55|| O Nanak, He hugs His slaves close in His Embrace. Please grant Your Grace, O Supreme Lord God, and be kind to me as well. ||4||44||55||
ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ रामकली महला ५ ॥ Rāmkalī mėhlā 5. Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:
ਐਸਾ ਪੂਰਾ ਗੁਰਦੇਉ ਸਹਾਈ ॥ ऐसा पूरा गुरदेउ सहाई ॥ Aisā pūrā gurḏe▫o sahā▫ī. Such is the Perfect Divine Guru, my help and support.
ਜਾ ਕਾ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ जा का सिमरनु बिरथा न जाई ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Jā kā simran birthā na jā▫ī. ||1|| rahā▫o. Meditation on Him is not wasted. ||1||Pause||
ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪੇਖਤ ਹੋਇ ਨਿਹਾਲੁ ॥ दरसनु पेखत होइ निहालु ॥ Ḏarsan pekẖaṯ ho▫e nihāl. Gazing upon the Blessed Vision of His Darshan, I am enraptured.
ਜਾ ਕੀ ਧੂਰਿ ਕਾਟੈ ਜਮ ਜਾਲੁ ॥ जा की धूरि काटै जम जालु ॥ Jā kī ḏẖūr kātai jam jāl. The dust of His feet snaps the noose of Death.
ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲ ਬਸੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਕੇ ॥ चरन कमल बसे मेरे मन के ॥ Cẖaran kamal base mere man ke. His lotus feet dwell within my mind,
ਕਾਰਜ ਸਵਾਰੇ ਸਗਲੇ ਤਨ ਕੇ ॥੧॥ कारज सवारे सगले तन के ॥१॥ Kāraj savāre sagle ṯan ke. ||1|| and so all the affairs of my body are arranged and resolved. ||1||
ਜਾ ਕੈ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਰਾਖੈ ਹਾਥੁ ॥ जा कै मसतकि राखै हाथु ॥ Jā kai masṯak rākẖai hāth. One upon whom He places His Hand, is protected.
ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਮੇਰੋ ਅਨਾਥ ਕੋ ਨਾਥੁ ॥ प्रभु मेरो अनाथ को नाथु ॥ Parabẖ mero anāth ko nāth. My God is the Master of the masterless.
ਪਤਿਤ ਉਧਾਰਣੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ॥ पतित उधारणु क्रिपा निधानु ॥ Paṯiṯ uḏẖāraṇ kirpā niḏẖān. He is the Savior of sinners, the treasure of mercy.
ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਜਾਈਐ ਕੁਰਬਾਨੁ ॥੨॥ सदा सदा जाईऐ कुरबानु ॥२॥ Saḏā saḏā jā▫ī▫ai kurbān. ||2|| Forever and ever, I am a sacrifice to Him. ||2||
ਨਿਰਮਲ ਮੰਤੁ ਦੇਇ ਜਿਸੁ ਦਾਨੁ ॥ निरमल मंतु देइ जिसु दानु ॥ Nirmal manṯ ḏe▫e jis ḏān. One whom He blesses with His Immaculate Mantra,
ਤਜਹਿ ਬਿਕਾਰ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥ तजहि बिकार बिनसै अभिमानु ॥ Ŧajėh bikār binsai abẖimān. renounces corruption; his egotistical pride is dispelled.
ਏਕੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਸਾਧ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ॥ एकु धिआईऐ साध कै संगि ॥ Ėk ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai sāḏẖ kai sang. Meditate on the One Lord in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy.
ਪਾਪ ਬਿਨਾਸੇ ਨਾਮ ਕੈ ਰੰਗਿ ॥੩॥ पाप बिनासे नाम कै रंगि ॥३॥ Pāp bināse nām kai rang. ||3|| Sins are erased, through the love of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||3||
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਸਗਲ ਨਿਵਾਸ ॥ गुर परमेसुर सगल निवास ॥ Gur parmesur sagal nivās. The Guru, the Transcendent Lord, dwells among all.
ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਗੁਣਤਾਸ ॥ घटि घटि रवि रहिआ गुणतास ॥ Gẖat gẖat rav rahi▫ā guṇṯās. The treasure of virtue pervades and permeates each and every heart.
ਦਰਸੁ ਦੇਹਿ ਧਾਰਉ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਆਸ ॥ दरसु देहि धारउ प्रभ आस ॥ Ḏaras ḏėh ḏẖāra▫o parabẖ ās. Please grant me the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan;
ਨਿਤ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਚਿਤਵੈ ਸਚੁ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ॥੪॥੪੫॥੫੬॥ नित नानकु चितवै सचु अरदासि ॥४॥४५॥५६॥ Niṯ Nānak cẖiṯvai sacẖ arḏās. ||4||45||56|| O God, I place my hopes in You. Nanak continually offers this true prayer. ||4||45||56||


ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ੴ सति नामु करता पुरखु निरभउ निरवैरु अकाल मूरति अजूनी सैभं गुर प्रसादि ॥ Ik▫oaŉkār saṯ nām karṯā purakẖ nirbẖa▫o nirvair akāl mūraṯ ajūnī saibẖaŉ gur parsāḏ. One Universal Creator God. Truth Is The Name. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying. Beyond Birth. Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace:
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ ਚਉਪਦੇ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੨ ॥ रागु बिहागड़ा चउपदे महला ५ घरु २ ॥ Rāg bihāgaṛā cẖa▫upḏe mėhlā 5 gẖar 2. Raag Bihaagraa, Chau-Padas, Fifth Mehl, Second House:
ਦੂਤਨ ਸੰਗਰੀਆ ॥ दूतन संगरीआ ॥ Ḏūṯan sangrī▫ā. To associate with your arch enemies,
ਭੁਇਅੰਗਨਿ ਬਸਰੀਆ ॥ भुइअंगनि बसरीआ ॥ Bẖu▫i▫angan basrī▫ā. is to live with poisonous snakes;
ਅਨਿਕ ਉਪਰੀਆ ॥੧॥ अनिक उपरीआ ॥१॥ Anik uprī▫ā. ||1|| I have made the effort to shake them off. ||1||
ਤਉ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਰੀਆ ॥ तउ मै हरि हरि करीआ ॥ Ŧa▫o mai har har karī▫ā. Then, I repeated the Name of the Lord, Har, Har,
ਤਉ ਸੁਖ ਸਹਜਰੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ तउ सुख सहजरीआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Ŧa▫o sukẖ sėhjarī▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o. and I obtained celestial peace. ||1||Pause||
ਮਿਥਨ ਮੋਹਰੀਆ ॥ मिथन मोहरीआ ॥ Mithan mohrī▫ā. False is the love of,
ਅਨ ਕਉ ਮੇਰੀਆ ॥ अन कउ मेरीआ ॥ An ka▫o merī▫ā. many emotional attachments,
ਵਿਚਿ ਘੂਮਨ ਘਿਰੀਆ ॥੨॥ विचि घूमन घिरीआ ॥२॥ vicẖ gẖūman gẖirī▫ā. ||2|| which suck the mortal into the whirlpool of reincarnation. ||2||
ਸਗਲ ਬਟਰੀਆ ॥ सगल बटरीआ ॥ Sagal batrī▫ā. All are travelers,
ਬਿਰਖ ਇਕ ਤਰੀਆ ॥ बिरख इक तरीआ ॥ Birakẖ ik ṯarī▫ā. who have gathered under the world-tree,
ਬਹੁ ਬੰਧਹਿ ਪਰੀਆ ॥੩॥ बहु बंधहि परीआ ॥३॥ Baho banḏẖėh parī▫ā. ||3|| and are bound by their many bonds. ||3||
ਥਿਰੁ ਸਾਧ ਸਫਰੀਆ ॥ थिरु साध सफरीआ ॥ Thir sāḏẖ safrī▫ā. Eternal is the Company of the Holy,
ਜਹ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਹਰੀਆ ॥ जह कीरतनु हरीआ ॥ Jah kīrṯan harī▫ā. where the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises are sung.
ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਨਰੀਆ ॥੪॥੧॥ नानक सरनरीआ ॥४॥१॥ Nānak sarnarī▫ā. ||4||1|| Nanak seeks this Sanctuary. ||4||1||
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥ Ik▫oaŉkār saṯgur parsāḏ. One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ॥ रागु बिहागड़ा महला ९ ॥ Rāg bihāgaṛā mėhlā 9. Raag Bihaagraa, Ninth Mehl:
ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਨਹਿ ਕੋਊ ਜਾਨੈ ॥ हरि की गति नहि कोऊ जानै ॥ Har kī gaṯ nėh ko▫ū jānai. No one knows the state of the Lord.
ਜੋਗੀ ਜਤੀ ਤਪੀ ਪਚਿ ਹਾਰੇ ਅਰੁ ਬਹੁ ਲੋਗ ਸਿਆਨੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ जोगी जती तपी पचि हारे अरु बहु लोग सिआने ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Jogī jaṯī ṯapī pacẖ hāre ar baho log si▫āne. ||1|| rahā▫o. The Yogis, the celibates, the penitents, and all sorts of clever people have failed. ||1||Pause||
ਛਿਨ ਮਹਿ ਰਾਉ ਰੰਕ ਕਉ ਕਰਈ ਰਾਉ ਰੰਕ ਕਰਿ ਡਾਰੇ ॥ छिन महि राउ रंक कउ करई राउ रंक करि डारे ॥ Cẖẖin mėh rā▫o rank ka▫o kar▫ī rā▫o rank kar dāre. In an instant, He changes the beggar into a king, and the king into a beggar.
ਰੀਤੇ ਭਰੇ ਭਰੇ ਸਖਨਾਵੈ ਯਹ ਤਾ ਕੋ ਬਿਵਹਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ रीते भरे भरे सखनावै यह ता को बिवहारे ॥१॥ Rīṯe bẖare bẖare sakẖnāvai yėh ṯā ko bivhāre. ||1|| He fills what is empty, and empties what is full - such are His ways. ||1||
ਅਪਨੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਆਪਿ ਪਸਾਰੀ ਆਪਹਿ ਦੇਖਨਹਾਰਾ ॥ अपनी माइआ आपि पसारी आपहि देखनहारा ॥ Apnī mā▫i▫ā āp pasārī āpėh ḏekẖanhārā. He Himself spread out the expanse of His Maya, and He Himself beholds it.
ਨਾਨਾ ਰੂਪੁ ਧਰੇ ਬਹੁ ਰੰਗੀ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਰਹੈ ਨਿਆਰਾ ॥੨॥ नाना रूपु धरे बहु रंगी सभ ते रहै निआरा ॥२॥ Nānā rūp ḏẖare baho rangī sabẖ ṯe rahai ni▫ārā. ||2|| He assumes so many forms, and plays so many games, and yet, He remains detached from it all. ||2||
ਅਗਨਤ ਅਪਾਰੁ ਅਲਖ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਜਿਹ ਸਭ ਜਗੁ ਭਰਮਾਇਓ ॥ अगनत अपारु अलख निरंजन जिह सभ जगु भरमाइओ ॥ Agnaṯ apār alakẖ niranjan jih sabẖ jag bẖarmā▫i▫o. Incalculable, infinite, incomprehensible and immaculate is He, who has misled the entire world.
ਸਗਲ ਭਰਮ ਤਜਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਚਰਨਿ ਤਾਹਿ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇਓ ॥੩॥੧॥੨॥ सगल भरम तजि नानक प्राणी चरनि ताहि चितु लाइओ ॥३॥१॥२॥ Sagal bẖaram ṯaj Nānak parāṇī cẖaran ṯāhi cẖiṯ lā▫i▫o. ||3||1||2|| Cast off all your doubts; prays Nanak, O mortal, focus your consciousness on His Feet. ||3||1||2||
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ ਛੰਤ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ਘਰੁ ੧ रागु बिहागड़ा छंत महला ४ घरु १ Rāg bihāgaṛā cẖẖanṯ mėhlā 4 gẖar 1 Raag Bihaagraa, Chhant, Fourth Mehl, First House:
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥ Ik▫oaŉkār saṯgur parsāḏ. One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਮੇਰੀ ਜਿੰਦੁੜੀਏ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਮੋਲੇ ਰਾਮ ॥ हरि हरि नामु धिआईऐ मेरी जिंदुड़ीए गुरमुखि नामु अमोले राम ॥ Har har nām ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai merī jinḏuṛī▫e gurmukẖ nām amole rām. Meditate on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, O my soul; as Gurmukh, meditate on the invaluable Name of the Lord.
ਹਰਿ ਰਸਿ ਬੀਧਾ ਹਰਿ ਮਨੁ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਸਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਝਕੋਲੇ ਰਾਮ ॥ हरि रसि बीधा हरि मनु पिआरा मनु हरि रसि नामि झकोले राम ॥ Har ras bīḏẖā har man pi▫ārā man har ras nām jẖakole rām. My mind is pierced through by the sublime essence of the Lord's Name. The Lord is dear to my mind. With the sublime essence of the Lord's Name, my mind is washed clean.

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥ Ik▫oaŉkār saṯgur parsāḏ. One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕਾ ਚਉਪਦਾ ਘਰੁ ੨ ਦੂਜਾ ॥ स्री कबीर जीउ का चउपदा घरु २ दूजा ॥ Sarī Kabīr jī▫o kā cẖa▫upaḏā gẖar 2 ḏūjā. Chau-Padas Of Kabeer Jee, Second House:
ਚਾਰਿ ਪਾਵ ਦੁਇ ਸਿੰਗ ਗੁੰਗ ਮੁਖ ਤਬ ਕੈਸੇ ਗੁਨ ਗਈਹੈ ॥ चारि पाव दुइ सिंग गुंग मुख तब कैसे गुन गईहै ॥ Cẖār pāv ḏu▫e sing gung mukẖ ṯab kaise gun ga▫īhai. With four feet, two horns and a mute mouth, how could you sing the Praises of the Lord?
ਊਠਤ ਬੈਠਤ ਠੇਗਾ ਪਰਿਹੈ ਤਬ ਕਤ ਮੂਡ ਲੁਕਈਹੈ ॥੧॥ ऊठत बैठत ठेगा परिहै तब कत मूड लुकईहै ॥१॥ Ūṯẖaṯ baiṯẖaṯ ṯẖegā parihai ṯab kaṯ mūd luka▫īhai. ||1|| Standing up and sitting down, the stick shall still fall on you, so where will you hide your head? ||1||
ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਬੈਲ ਬਿਰਾਨੇ ਹੁਈਹੈ ॥ हरि बिनु बैल बिराने हुईहै ॥ Har bin bail birāne hu▫īhai. Without the Lord, you are like a stray ox;
ਫਾਟੇ ਨਾਕਨ ਟੂਟੇ ਕਾਧਨ ਕੋਦਉ ਕੋ ਭੁਸੁ ਖਈਹੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ फाटे नाकन टूटे काधन कोदउ को भुसु खईहै ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Fāte nākan tūte kāḏẖan koḏa▫o ko bẖus kẖa▫īhai. ||1|| rahā▫o. with your nose torn, and your shoulders injured, you shall have only the straw of co{censored} grain to eat. ||1||Pause||
ਸਾਰੋ ਦਿਨੁ ਡੋਲਤ ਬਨ ਮਹੀਆ ਅਜਹੁ ਨ ਪੇਟ ਅਘਈਹੈ ॥ सारो दिनु डोलत बन महीआ अजहु न पेट अघईहै ॥ Sāro ḏin dolaṯ ban mahī▫ā ajahu na pet agẖ▫īhai. All day long, you shall wander in the forest, and even then, your belly will not be full.
ਜਨ ਭਗਤਨ ਕੋ ਕਹੋ ਨ ਮਾਨੋ ਕੀਓ ਅਪਨੋ ਪਈਹੈ ॥੨॥ जन भगतन को कहो न मानो कीओ अपनो पईहै ॥२॥ Jan bẖagṯan ko kaho na māno kī▫o apno pa▫īhai. ||2|| You did not follow the advice of the humble devotees, and so you shall obtain the fruits of your actions. ||2||
ਦੁਖ ਸੁਖ ਕਰਤ ਮਹਾ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਬੂਡੋ ਅਨਿਕ ਜੋਨਿ ਭਰਮਈਹੈ ॥ दुख सुख करत महा भ्रमि बूडो अनिक जोनि भरमईहै ॥ Ḏukẖ sukẖ karaṯ mahā bẖaram būdo anik jon bẖaram▫īhai. Enduring pleasure and pain, drowned in the great ocean of doubt, you shall wander in numerous reincarnations.
ਰਤਨ ਜਨਮੁ ਖੋਇਓ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਬਿਸਰਿਓ ਇਹੁ ਅਉਸਰੁ ਕਤ ਪਈਹੈ ॥੩॥ रतन जनमु खोइओ प्रभु बिसरिओ इहु अउसरु कत पईहै ॥३॥ Raṯan janam kẖo▫i▫o parabẖ bisri▫o ih a▫osar kaṯ pa▫īhai. ||3|| You have lost the jewel of human birth by forgetting God; when will you have such an opportunity again? ||3||
ਭ੍ਰਮਤ ਫਿਰਤ ਤੇਲਕ ਕੇ ਕਪਿ ਜਿਉ ਗਤਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਰੈਨਿ ਬਿਹਈਹੈ ॥ भ्रमत फिरत तेलक के कपि जिउ गति बिनु रैनि बिहईहै ॥ Bẖarmaṯ firaṯ ṯelak ke kap ji▫o gaṯ bin rain bih▫īhai. You turn on the wheel of reincarnation, like an ox at the oil-press; the night of your life passes away without salvation.
ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੂੰਡ ਧੁਨੇ ਪਛੁਤਈਹੈ ॥੪॥੧॥ कहत कबीर राम नाम बिनु मूंड धुने पछुतईहै ॥४॥१॥ Kahaṯ Kabīr rām nām bin mūnd ḏẖune pacẖẖuṯ▫īhai. ||4||1|| Says Kabeer, without the Name of the Lord, you shall pound your head, and regret and repent. ||4||1||
ਗੂਜਰੀ ਘਰੁ ੩ ॥ गूजरी घरु ३ ॥ Gūjrī gẖar 3. Goojaree, Third House:
ਮੁਸਿ ਮੁਸਿ ਰੋਵੈ ਕਬੀਰ ਕੀ ਮਾਈ ॥ मुसि मुसि रोवै कबीर की माई ॥ Mus mus rovai Kabīr kī mā▫ī. Kabeer's mother sobs, cries and bewails -
ਏ ਬਾਰਿਕ ਕੈਸੇ ਜੀਵਹਿ ਰਘੁਰਾਈ ॥੧॥ ए बारिक कैसे जीवहि रघुराई ॥१॥ Ė bārik kaise jīvėh ragẖurā▫ī. ||1|| O Lord, how will my grandchildren live? ||1||
ਤਨਨਾ ਬੁਨਨਾ ਸਭੁ ਤਜਿਓ ਹੈ ਕਬੀਰ ॥ तनना बुनना सभु तजिओ है कबीर ॥ Ŧannā bunnā sabẖ ṯaji▫o hai Kabīr. Kabeer has given up all his spinning and weaving,
ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਲਿਖਿ ਲੀਓ ਸਰੀਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ हरि का नामु लिखि लीओ सरीर ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Har kā nām likẖ lī▫o sarīr. ||1|| rahā▫o. and written the Name of the Lord on his body. ||1||Pause||
ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਤਾਗਾ ਬਾਹਉ ਬੇਹੀ ॥ जब लगु तागा बाहउ बेही ॥ Jab lag ṯāgā bāha▫o behī. As long as I pass the thread through the bobbin,
ਤਬ ਲਗੁ ਬਿਸਰੈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਨੇਹੀ ॥੨॥ तब लगु बिसरै रामु सनेही ॥२॥ Ŧab lag bisrai rām sanehī. ||2|| I forget the Lord, my Beloved. ||2||
ਓਛੀ ਮਤਿ ਮੇਰੀ ਜਾਤਿ ਜੁਲਾਹਾ ॥ ओछी मति मेरी जाति जुलाहा ॥ Ocẖẖī maṯ merī jāṯ julāhā. My intellect is lowly - I am a weaver by birth,
ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਲਹਿਓ ਮੈ ਲਾਹਾ ॥੩॥ हरि का नामु लहिओ मै लाहा ॥३॥ Har kā nām lahi▫o mai lāhā. ||3|| but I have earned the profit of the Name of the Lord. ||3||
ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਈ ॥ कहत कबीर सुनहु मेरी माई ॥ Kahaṯ Kabīr sunhu merī mā▫ī. Says Kabeer, listen, O my mother -
ਹਮਰਾ ਇਨ ਕਾ ਦਾਤਾ ਏਕੁ ਰਘੁਰਾਈ ॥੪॥੨॥ हमरा इन का दाता एकु रघुराई ॥४॥२॥ Hamrā in kā ḏāṯā ek ragẖurā▫ī. ||4||2|| the Lord alone is the Provider, for me and my children. ||4||2||


ਨਾਮ ਬਿਹੂਨੇ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਹੋਤ ਜਾਤ ਸਭੁ ਧੂਰ ॥੧॥ नाम बिहूने नानका होत जात सभु धूर ॥१॥ Nām bihūne nānkā hoṯ jāṯ sabẖ ḏẖūr. ||1|| Without the Naam, the Name of the Lord, O Nanak, all are reduced to dust. ||1||
ਪਵੜੀ ॥ पवड़ी ॥ Pavṛī. Pauree:
ਧਧਾ ਧੂਰਿ ਪੁਨੀਤ ਤੇਰੇ ਜਨੂਆ ॥ धधा धूरि पुनीत तेरे जनूआ ॥ Ḏẖaḏẖā ḏẖūr punīṯ ṯere janū▫ā. DHADHA: The dust of the feet of the Saints is sacred.
ਧਨਿ ਤੇਊ ਜਿਹ ਰੁਚ ਇਆ ਮਨੂਆ ॥ धनि तेऊ जिह रुच इआ मनूआ ॥ Ḏẖan ṯe▫ū jih rucẖ i▫ā manū▫ā. Blessed are those whose minds are filled with this longing.
ਧਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਬਾਛਹਿ ਸੁਰਗ ਨ ਆਛਹਿ ॥ धनु नही बाछहि सुरग न आछहि ॥ Ḏẖan nahī bācẖẖėh surag na ācẖẖėh. They do not seek wealth, and they do not desire paradise.
ਅਤਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਸਾਧ ਰਜ ਰਾਚਹਿ ॥ अति प्रिअ प्रीति साध रज राचहि ॥ Aṯ pari▫a parīṯ sāḏẖ raj rācẖėh. They are immersed in the deep love of their Beloved, and the dust of the feet of the Holy.
ਧੰਧੇ ਕਹਾ ਬਿਆਪਹਿ ਤਾਹੂ ॥ धंधे कहा बिआपहि ताहू ॥ Ḏẖanḏẖe kahā bi▫āpahi ṯāhū. How can worldly affairs affect those,
ਜੋ ਏਕ ਛਾਡਿ ਅਨ ਕਤਹਿ ਨ ਜਾਹੂ ॥ जो एक छाडि अन कतहि न जाहू ॥ Jo ek cẖẖād an kaṯėh na jāhū. who do not abandon the One Lord, and who go nowhere else?
ਜਾ ਕੈ ਹੀਐ ਦੀਓ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਨਾਮ ॥ जा कै हीऐ दीओ प्रभ नाम ॥ Jā kai hī▫ai ḏī▫o parabẖ nām. One whose heart is filled with God's Name,
ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਧ ਪੂਰਨ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥੪॥ नानक साध पूरन भगवान ॥४॥ Nānak sāḏẖ pūran bẖagvān. ||4|| O Nanak, is a perfect spiritual being of God. ||4||
ਸਲੋਕ ॥ सलोक ॥ Salok. Shalok:
ਅਨਿਕ ਭੇਖ ਅਰੁ ਙਿਆਨ ਧਿਆਨ ਮਨਹਠਿ ਮਿਲਿਅਉ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ अनिक भेख अरु ङिआन धिआन मनहठि मिलिअउ न कोइ ॥ Anik bẖekẖ ar ńi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān manhaṯẖ mili▫a▫o na ko▫e. By all sorts of religious robes, knowledge, meditation and stubborn-mindedness, no one has ever met God.
ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਭਈ ਭਗਤੁ ਙਿਆਨੀ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥ कहु नानक किरपा भई भगतु ङिआनी सोइ ॥१॥ Kaho Nānak kirpā bẖa▫ī bẖagaṯ ńi▫ānī so▫e. ||1|| Says Nanak, those upon whom God showers His Mercy, are devotees of spiritual wisdom. ||1||
ਪਉੜੀ ॥ पउड़ी ॥ Pa▫oṛī. Pauree:
ਙੰਙਾ ਙਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਮੁਖ ਬਾਤਉ ॥ ङंङा ङिआनु नही मुख बातउ ॥ Ńańā ńi▫ān nahī mukẖ bāṯa▫o. NGANGA: Spiritual wisdom is not obtained by mere words of mouth.
ਅਨਿਕ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਕਰਿ ਭਾਤਉ ॥ अनिक जुगति सासत्र करि भातउ ॥ Anik jugaṯ sāsṯar kar bẖāṯa▫o. It is not obtained through the various debates of the Shaastras and scriptures.
ਙਿਆਨੀ ਸੋਇ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਦ੍ਰਿੜ ਸੋਊ ॥ ङिआनी सोइ जा कै द्रिड़ सोऊ ॥ Ńi▫ānī so▫e jā kai ḏariṛ so▫ū. They alone are spiritually wise, whose minds are firmly fixed on the Lord.
ਕਹਤ ਸੁਨਤ ਕਛੁ ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਹੋਊ ॥ कहत सुनत कछु जोगु न होऊ ॥ Kahaṯ sunaṯ kacẖẖ jog na ho▫ū. Hearing and telling stories, no one attains Yoga.
ਙਿਆਨੀ ਰਹਤ ਆਗਿਆ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੁ ਜਾ ਕੈ ॥ ङिआनी रहत आगिआ द्रिड़ु जा कै ॥ Ńi▫ānī rahaṯ āgi▫ā ḏariṛ jā kai. They alone are spiritually wise, who remain firmly committed to the Lord's Command.
ਉਸਨ ਸੀਤ ਸਮਸਰਿ ਸਭ ਤਾ ਕੈ ॥ उसन सीत समसरि सभ ता कै ॥ Usan sīṯ samsar sabẖ ṯā kai. Heat and cold are all the same to them.
ਙਿਆਨੀ ਤਤੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੀਚਾਰੀ ॥ ङिआनी ततु गुरमुखि बीचारी ॥ Ńi▫ānī ṯaṯ gurmukẖ bīcẖārī. The true people of spiritual wisdom are the Gurmukhs, who contemplate the essence of reality;
ਨਾਨਕ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰੀ ॥੫॥ नानक जा कउ किरपा धारी ॥५॥ Nānak jā ka▫o kirpā ḏẖārī. ||5|| O Nanak, the Lord showers His Mercy upon them. ||5||
ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ सलोकु ॥ Salok. Shalok:
ਆਵਨ ਆਏ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਮਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਬੂਝੇ ਪਸੁ ਢੋਰ ॥ आवन आए स्रिसटि महि बिनु बूझे पसु ढोर ॥ Āvan ā▫e sarisat mėh bin būjẖe pas dẖor. Those who have come into the world without understanding are like animals and beasts.
ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੋ ਬੁਝੈ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਭਾਗ ਮਥੋਰ ॥੧॥ नानक गुरमुखि सो बुझै जा कै भाग मथोर ॥१॥ Nānak gurmukẖ so bujẖai jā kai bẖāg mathor. ||1|| O Nanak, those who become Gurmukh understand; upon their foreheads is such pre-ordained destiny. ||1||
ਪਉੜੀ ॥ पउड़ी ॥ Pa▫oṛī. Pauree:
ਯਾ ਜੁਗ ਮਹਿ ਏਕਹਿ ਕਉ ਆਇਆ ॥ या जुग महि एकहि कउ आइआ ॥ Yā jug mėh ekėh ka▫o ā▫i▫ā. They have come into this world to meditate on the One Lord.
ਜਨਮਤ ਮੋਹਿਓ ਮੋਹਨੀ ਮਾਇਆ ॥ जनमत मोहिओ मोहनी माइआ ॥ Janmaṯ mohi▫o mohnī mā▫i▫ā. But ever since their birth, they have been enticed by the fascination of Maya.
ਗਰਭ ਕੁੰਟ ਮਹਿ ਉਰਧ ਤਪ ਕਰਤੇ ॥ गरभ कुंट महि उरध तप करते ॥ Garabẖ kunt mėh uraḏẖ ṯap karṯe. Upside-down in the chamber of the womb, they performed intense meditation.
ਸਾਸਿ ਸਾਸਿ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਰਹਤੇ ॥ सासि सासि सिमरत प्रभु रहते ॥ Sās sās simraṯ parabẖ rahṯe. They remembered God in meditation with each and every breath.
ਉਰਝਿ ਪਰੇ ਜੋ ਛੋਡਿ ਛਡਾਨਾ ॥ उरझि परे जो छोडि छडाना ॥ Urajẖ pare jo cẖẖod cẖẖadānā. But now, they are entangled in things which they must leave behind.
ਦੇਵਨਹਾਰੁ ਮਨਹਿ ਬਿਸਰਾਨਾ ॥ देवनहारु मनहि बिसराना ॥ Ḏevanhār manėh bisrānā. They forget the Great Giver from their minds.
ਧਾਰਹੁ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਜਿਸਹਿ ਗੁਸਾਈ ॥ धारहु किरपा जिसहि गुसाई ॥ Ḏẖārahu kirpā jisahi gusā▫ī. Those upon whom the Lord showers His Mercy,
ਇਤ ਉਤ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸੁ ਬਿਸਰਹੁ ਨਾਹੀ ॥੬॥ इत उत नानक तिसु बिसरहु नाही ॥६॥ Iṯ uṯ Nānak ṯis bisrahu nāhī. ||6|| O Nanak, they do not forget Him, here or hereafter. ||6||
ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ सलोकु ॥ Salok. Shalok:
ਆਵਤ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਬਿਨਾਸ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਆਗਿਆ ਭਿੰਨ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ आवत हुकमि बिनास हुकमि आगिआ भिंन न कोइ ॥ Āvaṯ hukam binās hukam āgi▫ā bẖinn na ko▫e. By His Command, we come, and by His Command, we go; no one is beyond His Command.
ਆਵਨ ਜਾਨਾ ਤਿਹ ਮਿਟੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਹ ਮਨਿ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥ आवन जाना तिह मिटै नानक जिह मनि सोइ ॥१॥ Āvan jānā ṯih mitai Nānak jih man so▫e. ||1|| Coming and going in reincarnation is ended, O Nanak, for those whose minds are filled with the Lord. ||1||
ਪਉੜੀ ॥ पउड़ी ॥ Pa▫oṛī. Pauree:
ਏਊ ਜੀਅ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਗ੍ਰਭ ਵਾਸੇ ॥ एऊ जीअ बहुतु ग्रभ वासे ॥ Ė▫ū jī▫a bahuṯ garabẖ vāse. This soul has lived in many wombs.
ਮੋਹ ਮਗਨ ਮੀਠ ਜੋਨਿ ਫਾਸੇ ॥ मोह मगन मीठ जोनि फासे ॥ Moh magan mīṯẖ jon fāse. Enticed by sweet attachment, it has been trapped in reincarnation.
ਇਨਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਬਸਿ ਕੀਨੇ ॥ इनि माइआ त्रै गुण बसि कीने ॥ In mā▫i▫ā ṯarai guṇ bas kīne. This Maya has subjugated beings through the three qualities.
ਆਪਨ ਮੋਹ ਘਟੇ ਘਟਿ ਦੀਨੇ ॥ आपन मोह घटे घटि दीने ॥ Āpan moh gẖate gẖat ḏīne. Maya has infused attachment to itself in each and every heart.
ਏ ਸਾਜਨ ਕਛੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ ए साजन कछु कहहु उपाइआ ॥ Ė sājan kacẖẖ kahhu upā▫i▫ā. O friend, tell me some way,
ਜਾ ਤੇ ਤਰਉ ਬਿਖਮ ਇਹ ਮਾਇਆ ॥ जा ते तरउ बिखम इह माइआ ॥ Jā ṯe ṯara▫o bikẖam ih mā▫i▫ā. by which I may swim across this treacherous ocean of Maya.
ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਸਤਸੰਗਿ ਮਿਲਾਏ ॥ करि किरपा सतसंगि मिलाए ॥ Kar kirpā saṯsang milā▫e. The Lord showers His Mercy, and leads us to join the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation.
ਨਾਨਕ ਤਾ ਕੈ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਨ ਮਾਏ ॥੭॥ नानक ता कै निकटि न माए ॥७॥ Nānak ṯā kai nikat na mā▫e. ||7|| O Nanak, Maya does not even come near. ||7||
ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ सलोकु ॥ Salok. Shalok:
ਕਿਰਤ ਕਮਾਵਨ ਸੁਭ ਅਸੁਭ ਕੀਨੇ ਤਿਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਆਪਿ ॥ किरत कमावन सुभ असुभ कीने तिनि प्रभि आपि ॥ Kiraṯ kamāvan subẖ asubẖ kīne ṯin parabẖ āp. God Himself causes one to perform good and bad actions.
ਪਸੁ ਆਪਨ ਹਉ ਹਉ ਕਰੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਹਾ ਕਮਾਤਿ ॥੧॥ पसु आपन हउ हउ करै नानक बिनु हरि कहा कमाति ॥१॥ Pas āpan ha▫o ha▫o karai Nānak bin har kahā kamāṯ. ||1|| The beast indulges in egotism, selfishness and conceit; O Nanak, without the Lord, what can anyone do? ||1||
ਪਉੜੀ ॥ पउड़ी ॥ Pa▫oṛī. Pauree:
ਏਕਹਿ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਾਵਨਹਾਰਾ ॥ एकहि आपि करावनहारा ॥ Ėkėh āp karāvanhārā. The One Lord Himself is the Cause of all actions.
ਆਪਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਬਿਸਥਾਰਾ ॥ आपहि पाप पुंन बिसथारा ॥ Āpėh pāp punn bisthārā. He Himself distributes sins and noble acts.
ਇਆ ਜੁਗ ਜਿਤੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਆਪਹਿ ਲਾਇਓ ॥ इआ जुग जितु जितु आपहि लाइओ ॥ I▫ā jug jiṯ jiṯ āpėh lā▫i▫o. In this age, people are attached as the Lord attaches them.
ਸੋ ਸੋ ਪਾਇਓ ਜੁ ਆਪਿ ਦਿਵਾਇਓ ॥ सो सो पाइओ जु आपि दिवाइओ ॥ So so pā▫i▫o jo āp divā▫i▫o. They receive that which the Lord Himself gives.
ਉਆ ਕਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਨੈ ਕੋਊ ॥ उआ का अंतु न जानै कोऊ ॥ U▫ā kā anṯ na jānai ko▫ū. No one knows His limits.
ਜੋ ਜੋ ਕਰੈ ਸੋਊ ਫੁਨਿ ਹੋਊ ॥ जो जो करै सोऊ फुनि होऊ ॥ Jo jo karai so▫ū fun ho▫ū. Whatever He does, comes to pass.
ਏਕਹਿ ਤੇ ਸਗਲਾ ਬਿਸਥਾਰਾ ॥ एकहि ते सगला बिसथारा ॥ Ėkėh ṯe saglā bisthārā. From the One, the entire expanse of the Universe emanated.
ਨਾਨਕ ਆਪਿ ਸਵਾਰਨਹਾਰਾ ॥੮॥ नानक आपि सवारनहारा ॥८॥ Nānak āp savāranhārā. ||8|| O Nanak, He Himself is our Saving Grace. ||8||
ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ सलोकु ॥ Salok. Shalok:
ਰਾਚਿ ਰਹੇ ਬਨਿਤਾ ਬਿਨੋਦ ਕੁਸਮ ਰੰਗ ਬਿਖ ਸੋਰ ॥ राचि रहे बनिता बिनोद कुसम रंग बिख सोर ॥ Rācẖ rahe baniṯā binoḏ kusam rang bikẖ sor. Man remains engrossed in women and playful pleasures; the tumult of his passion is like the dye of the safflower, which fades away all too soon.
ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਹ ਸਰਨੀ ਪਰਉ ਬਿਨਸਿ ਜਾਇ ਮੈ ਮੋਰ ॥੧॥ नानक तिह सरनी परउ बिनसि जाइ मै मोर ॥१॥ Nānak ṯih sarnī para▫o binas jā▫e mai mor. ||1|| O Nanak, seek God's Sanctuary, and your selfishness and conceit shall be taken away. ||1||

ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ माझ महला ३ ॥ Mājẖ mėhlā 3. Maajh, Third Mehl:
ਇਸੁ ਗੁਫਾ ਮਹਿ ਅਖੁਟ ਭੰਡਾਰਾ ॥ इसु गुफा महि अखुट भंडारा ॥ Is gufā mėh akẖut bẖandārā. Within this cave, there is an inexhaustible treasure.
ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਰਿ ਅਲਖ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥ तिसु विचि वसै हरि अलख अपारा ॥ Ŧis vicẖ vasai har alakẖ apārā. Within this cave, the Invisible and Infinite Lord abides.
ਆਪੇ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੈ ਆਪੇ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਆਪੁ ਵੰਞਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ आपे गुपतु परगटु है आपे गुर सबदी आपु वंञावणिआ ॥१॥ Āpe gupaṯ pargat hai āpe gur sabḏī āp vañāvaṇ▫i▫ā. ||1|| He Himself is hidden, and He Himself is revealed; through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, selfishness and conceit are eliminated. ||1||
ਹਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਵਣਿਆ ॥ हउ वारी जीउ वारी अम्रित नामु मंनि वसावणिआ ॥ Ha▫o vārī jī▫o vārī amriṯ nām man vasāvaṇi▫ā. I am a sacrifice, my soul is a sacrifice, to those who enshrine the Ambrosial Naam, the Name of the Lord, within their minds.
ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਹਾ ਰਸੁ ਮੀਠਾ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਆਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ अम्रित नामु महा रसु मीठा गुरमती अम्रितु पीआवणिआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Amriṯ nām mahā ras mīṯẖā gurmaṯī amriṯ pī▫āvṇi▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o. The taste of the Ambrosial Naam is very sweet! Through the Guru's Teachings, drink in this Ambrosial Nectar. ||1||Pause||
ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰਿ ਬਜਰ ਕਪਾਟ ਖੁਲਾਇਆ ॥ हउमै मारि बजर कपाट खुलाइआ ॥ Ha▫umai mār bajar kapāt kẖulā▫i▫ā. Subduing egotism, the rigid doors are opened.
ਨਾਮੁ ਅਮੋਲਕੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ नामु अमोलकु गुर परसादी पाइआ ॥ Nām amolak gur parsādī pā▫i▫ā. The Priceless Naam is obtained by Guru's Grace.
ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਪਾਏ ਕੋਈ ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੨॥ बिनु सबदै नामु न पाए कोई गुर किरपा मंनि वसावणिआ ॥२॥ Bin sabḏai nām na pā▫e ko▫ī gur kirpā man vasāvaṇi▫ā. ||2|| Without the Shabad, the Naam is not obtained. By Guru's Grace, it is implanted within the mind. ||2||
ਗੁਰ ਗਿਆਨ ਅੰਜਨੁ ਸਚੁ ਨੇਤ੍ਰੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ गुर गिआन अंजनु सचु नेत्री पाइआ ॥ Gur gi▫ān anjan sacẖ neṯrī pā▫i▫ā. The Guru has applied the true ointment of spiritual wisdom to my eyes.
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਅਗਿਆਨੁ ਅੰਧੇਰੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥ अंतरि चानणु अगिआनु अंधेरु गवाइआ ॥ Anṯar cẖānaṇ agi▫ān anḏẖer gavā▫i▫ā. Deep within, the Divine Light has dawned, and the darkness of ignorance has been dispelled.
ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲੀ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਿ ਸੋਭਾ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੩॥ जोती जोति मिली मनु मानिआ हरि दरि सोभा पावणिआ ॥३॥ Joṯī joṯ milī man māni▫ā har ḏar sobẖā pāvṇi▫ā. ||3|| My light has merged into the Light; my mind has surrendered, and I am blessed with Glory in the Court of the Lord. ||3||
ਸਰੀਰਹੁ ਭਾਲਣਿ ਕੋ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਜਾਏ ॥ सरीरहु भालणि को बाहरि जाए ॥ Sarīrahu bẖālaṇ ko bāhar jā▫e. Those who look outside the body, searching for the Lord,
ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਲਹੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਵੇਗਾਰਿ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਏ ॥ नामु न लहै बहुतु वेगारि दुखु पाए ॥ Nām na lahai bahuṯ vegār ḏukẖ pā▫e. shall not receive the Naam; they shall instead be forced to suffer the terrible pains of slavery.
ਮਨਮੁਖ ਅੰਧੇ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਘਿਰਿ ਆਇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵਥੁ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੪॥ मनमुख अंधे सूझै नाही फिरि घिरि आइ गुरमुखि वथु पावणिआ ॥४॥ Manmukẖ anḏẖe sūjẖai nāhī fir gẖir ā▫e gurmukẖ vath pāvṇi▫ā. ||4|| The blind, self-willed manmukhs do not understand; but when they return once again to their own home, then, as Gurmukh, they find the genuine article. ||4||
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਸਚਾ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਏ ॥ गुर परसादी सचा हरि पाए ॥ Gur parsādī sacẖā har pā▫e. By Guru's Grace, the True Lord is found.
ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੈਲੁ ਜਾਏ ॥ मनि तनि वेखै हउमै मैलु जाए ॥ Man ṯan vekẖai ha▫umai mail jā▫e. Within your mind and body, see the Lord, and the filth of egotism shall depart.
ਬੈਸਿ ਸੁਥਾਨਿ ਸਦ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਸਚੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਮਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੫॥ बैसि सुथानि सद हरि गुण गावै सचै सबदि समावणिआ ॥५॥ Bais suthān saḏ har guṇ gāvai sacẖai sabaḏ samāvaṇi▫ā. ||5|| Sitting in that place, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord forever, and be absorbed in the True Word of the Shabad. ||5||
ਨਉ ਦਰ ਠਾਕੇ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਹਾਏ ॥ नउ दर ठाके धावतु रहाए ॥ Na▫o ḏar ṯẖāke ḏẖāvaṯ rahā▫e. Those who close off the nine gates, and restrain the wandering mind,
ਦਸਵੈ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਪਾਏ ॥ दसवै निज घरि वासा पाए ॥ Ḏasvai nij gẖar vāsā pā▫e. come to dwell in the Home of the Tenth Gate.
ਓਥੈ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦ ਵਜਹਿ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੬॥ ओथै अनहद सबद वजहि दिनु राती गुरमती सबदु सुणावणिआ ॥६॥ Othai anhaḏ sabaḏ vajėh ḏin rāṯī gurmaṯī sabaḏ suṇāvṇi▫ā. ||6|| There, the Unstruck Melody of the Shabad vibrates day and night. Through the Guru's Teachings, the Shabad is heard. ||6||
ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਆਨੇਰਾ ॥ बिनु सबदै अंतरि आनेरा ॥ Bin sabḏai anṯar ānerā. Without the Shabad, there is only darkness within.
ਨ ਵਸਤੁ ਲਹੈ ਨ ਚੂਕੈ ਫੇਰਾ ॥ न वसतु लहै न चूकै फेरा ॥ Na vasaṯ lahai na cẖūkai ferā. The genuine article is not found, and the cycle of reincarnation does not end.
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਥਿ ਕੁੰਜੀ ਹੋਰਤੁ ਦਰੁ ਖੁਲੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੭॥ सतिगुर हथि कुंजी होरतु दरु खुलै नाही गुरु पूरै भागि मिलावणिआ ॥७॥ Saṯgur hath kunjī horaṯ ḏar kẖulai nāhī gur pūrai bẖāg milāvaṇi▫ā. ||7|| The key is in the hands of the True Guru; no one else can open this door. By perfect destiny, He is met. ||7||
ਗੁਪਤੁ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਤੂੰ ਸਭਨੀ ਥਾਈ ॥ गुपतु परगटु तूं सभनी थाई ॥ Gupaṯ pargat ṯūŉ sabẖnī thā▫ī. You are the hidden and the revealed in all places.
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਮਿਲਿ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਈ ॥ गुर परसादी मिलि सोझी पाई ॥ Gur parsādī mil sojẖī pā▫ī. Receiving Guru's Grace, this understanding is obtained.
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹਿ ਸਦਾ ਤੂੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੮॥੨੪॥੨੫॥ नानक नामु सलाहि सदा तूं गुरमुखि मंनि वसावणिआ ॥८॥२४॥२५॥ Nānak nām salāhi saḏā ṯūŉ gurmukẖ man vasāvaṇi▫ā. ||8||24||25|| O Nanak, praise the Naam forever; as Gurmukh, enshrine it within the mind. ||8||24||25||
ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ माझ महला ३ ॥ Mājẖ mėhlā 3. Maajh, Third Mehl:
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਮਿਲਾਏ ਆਪੇ ॥ गुरमुखि मिलै मिलाए आपे ॥ Gurmukẖ milai milā▫e āpe. The Gurmukhs meet the Lord, and inspire others to meet Him as well.
ਕਾਲੁ ਨ ਜੋਹੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਨ ਸੰਤਾਪੇ ॥ कालु न जोहै दुखु न संतापे ॥ Kāl na johai ḏukẖ na sanṯāpe. Death does not see them, and pain does not afflict them.
ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰਿ ਬੰਧਨ ਸਭ ਤੋੜੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੁਹਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ हउमै मारि बंधन सभ तोड़ै गुरमुखि सबदि सुहावणिआ ॥१॥ Ha▫umai mār banḏẖan sabẖ ṯoṛai gurmukẖ sabaḏ suhāvaṇi▫ā. ||1|| Subduing egotism, they break all their bonds; as Gurmukh, they are adorned with the Word of the Shabad. ||1||
ਹਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸੁਹਾਵਣਿਆ ॥ हउ वारी जीउ वारी हरि हरि नामि सुहावणिआ ॥ Ha▫o vārī jī▫o vārī har har nām suhāvaṇi▫ā. I am a sacrifice, my soul is a sacrifice, to those who look beautiful in the Name of the Lord, Har, Har.
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਾਵੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਚੈ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਤੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ गुरमुखि गावै गुरमुखि नाचै हरि सेती चितु लावणिआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Gurmukẖ gāvai gurmukẖ nācẖai har seṯī cẖiṯ lāvaṇi▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o. The Gurmukhs sing, the Gurmukhs dance, and focus their consciousness on the Lord. ||1||Pause||

ੴ ਸਤਿਗ੝ਰ ਪ੝ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
Ik oankar satgur parsad.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ॥
Salok mohala 9.
Salok, Ninth Mehl:
ਗ੝ਨ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਗਾਇਓ ਨਹੀ ਜਨਮ੝ ਅਕਾਰਥ ਕੀਨ੝ ॥
Gun gobind gĝio nahī janam akĝrath kīn.
If you do not sing the Praises of the Lord, your life is rendered useless.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਭਜ੝ ਮਨਾ ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਜਲ ਕਉ ਮੀਨ੝ ॥੧॥
Kaho Nĝnak har bhaj manĝ jih bidh jal kao mīn. ((1))
Says Nanak, meditate, vibrate upon the Lord; immerse your mind in Him, like the fish in the water. ((1))
ਬਿਖਿਅਨ ਸਿਉ ਕਾਹੇ ਰਚਿਓ ਨਿਮਖ ਨ ਹੋਹਿ ਉਦਾਸ੝ ॥
Bikhian sio kĝhe rachio nimakh na hohi udĝs.
Why are you engrossed in sin and corruption? You are not detached, even for a moment!
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਜ੝ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਾ ਪਰੈ ਨ ਜਮ ਕੀ ਫਾਸ ॥੨॥
Kaho Nĝnak bhaj har manĝ parai na jam kī fĝs. ((2))
Says Nanak, meditate, vibrate upon the Lord, and you shall not be caught in the noose of death. ((2))
ਤਰਨਾਪੋ ਇਉ ਹੀ ਗਇਓ ਲੀਓ ਜਰਾ ਤਨ੝ ਜੀਤਿ ॥
Ŧarnĝpo eo(n) hī gaio līo jarĝ tan jīt.
Your youth has passed away like this, and old age has overtaken your body.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਜ੝ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਾ ਅਉਧ ਜਾਤ੝ ਹੈ ਬੀਤਿ ॥੩॥
Kaho Nĝnak bhaj har manĝ aodh jĝt hai bīt. ((3))
Says Nanak, meditate, vibrate upon the Lord; your life is fleeting away! ((3))
ਬਿਰਧਿ ਭਇਓ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਹੀ ਕਾਲ੝ ਪਹੂਚਿਓ ਆਨਿ ॥
Birad bhaio sūjhai nahī kĝl pahūchio ĝn.
You have become old, and you do not understand that death is overtaking you.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਰ ਬਾਵਰੇ ਕਿਉ ਨ ਭਜੈ ਭਗਵਾਨ੝ ॥੪॥
Kaho Nĝnak nar bĝvre kio na bhajai bhagvĝn. ((4))
Says Nanak, you are insane! Why do you not remember and meditate on God? ((4))
ਧਨ੝ ਦਾਰਾ ਸੰਪਤਿ ਸਗਲ ਜਿਨਿ ਅਪ੝ਨੀ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨਿ ॥
Dhan dĝrĝ sampat sagal jin apunī kar mĝn.
Your wealth, spouse, and all the possessions which you claim as your own -
ਇਨ ਮੈ ਕਛ੝ ਸੰਗੀ ਨਹੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਚੀ ਜਾਨਿ ॥੫॥
In mai kacho sangī nahī Nĝnak sĝchī jĝn. ((5))
none of these shall go along with you in the end. O Nanak, know this as true. ((5))
ਪਤਿਤ ਉਧਾਰਨ ਭੈ ਹਰਨ ਹਰਿ ਅਨਾਥ ਕੇ ਨਾਥ ॥
Patit udhĝran bhai haran har anĝth ke nĝth.
He is the Saving Grace of sinners, the Destroyer of fear, the Master of the masterless.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਹ ਜਾਨੀਝ ਸਦਾ ਬਸਤ੝ ਤ੝ਮ ਸਾਥਿ ॥੬॥
Kaho Nĝnak tih jĝnīai sadĝ basatu tum sĝth. ((6))
Says Nanak, realize and know Him, who is always with you. ((6))
ਤਨ੝ ਧਨ੝ ਜਿਹ ਤੋ ਕਉ ਦੀਓ ਤਾਂ ਸਿਉ ਨੇਹ੝ ਨ ਕੀਨ ॥
Ŧan ḝẖan jih ṯo ka▫o ḝī▫o ṯĝŉ si▫o nehu na kīn.
He has given you your body and wealth, but you are not in love with Him.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਰ ਬਾਵਰੇ ਅਬ ਕਿਉ ਡੋਲਤ ਦੀਨ ॥੭॥
Kaho Nĝnak nar bĝvre ab ki▫o dolaṯ ḝīn. ((7))
Says Nanak, you are insane! Why do you now shake and tremble so helplessly? ((7))
ਤਨ੝ ਧਨ੝ ਸੰਪੈ ਸ੝ਖ ਦੀਓ ਅਰ੝ ਜਿਹ ਨੀਕੇ ਧਾਮ ॥
Ŧan ḝẖan sampai sukẖ ḝī▫o ar jih nīke ḝẖĝm.
He has given you your body, wealth, property, peace and beautiful mansions.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨ੝ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਕਾਹਿ ਨ ਰਾਮ੝ ॥੮॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ simraṯ kĝhi na rĝm. ((8))
Says Nanak, listen, mind: why don't you remember the Lord in meditation? ((8))
ਸਭ ਸ੝ਖ ਦਾਤਾ ਰਾਮ੝ ਹੈ ਦੂਸਰ ਨਾਹਿਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
Sabẖ sukẖ ḝĝṯĝ rĝm hai ḝūsar nĝhin ko▫e.
The Lord is the Giver of all peace and comfort. There is no other at all.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨਿ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਤਿਹ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥੯॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ ṯih simraṯ gaṯ ho▫e. ((9))
Says Nanak, listen, mind: meditating in remembrance on Him, salvation is attained. ((9))
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ਜਿਹ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਈਝ ਤਿਹ ਭਜ੝ ਰੇ ਤੈ ਮੀਤ ॥
Jih simraṯ gaṯ pĝ▫ī▫ai ṯih bẖaj re ṯai mīṯ.
Remembering Him in meditation, salvation is attained; vibrate and meditate on Him, O my friend.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨ੝ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਅਉਧ ਘਟਤ ਹੈ ਨੀਤ ॥੧੦॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ a▫oḝẖ gẖataṯ hai nīṯ. ((10))
Says Nanak, listen, mind: your life is passing away! ((10))
ਪਾਂਚ ਤਤ ਕੋ ਤਨ੝ ਰਚਿਓ ਜਾਨਹ੝ ਚਤ੝ਰ ਸ੝ਜਾਨ ॥
Pĝŉcẖ ṯaṯ ko ṯan racẖi▫o jĝnhu cẖaṯur sujĝn.
Your body is made up of the five elements; you are clever and wise - know this well.
ਜਿਹ ਤੇ ਉਪਜਿਓ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਲੀਨ ਤਾਹਿ ਮੈ ਮਾਨ੝ ॥੧੧॥
Jih ṯe upji▫o nĝnkĝ līn ṯĝhi mai mĝn. ((11))
Believe it - you shall merge once again into the One, O Nanak, from whom you originated. ((11))
ਘਟ ਘਟ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਜੂ ਬਸੈ ਸੰਤਨ ਕਹਿਓ ਪ੝ਕਾਰਿ ॥
Gẖat gẖat mai har jū basai sanṯan kahi▫o pukĝr.
The Dear Lord abides in each and every heart; the Saints proclaim this as true.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਹ ਭਜ੝ ਮਨਾ ਭਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਉਤਰਹਿ ਪਾਰਿ ॥੧੨॥
Kaho Nĝnak ṯih bẖaj manĝ bẖa▫o niḝẖ uṯrėh pĝr. ((12))
Says Nanak, meditate and vibrate upon Him, and you shall cross over the terrifying world-ocean. ((12))
ਸ੝ਖ੝ ਦ੝ਖ੝ ਜਿਹ ਪਰਸੈ ਨਹੀ ਲੋਭ੝ ਮੋਹ੝ ਅਭਿਮਾਨ੝ ॥
Sukẖ ḝukẖ jih parsai nahī lobẖ moh abẖimĝn.
One who is not touched by pleasure or pain, greed, emotional attachment and egotistical pride -
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨ੝ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਸੋ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥੧੩॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ so mūraṯ bẖagvĝn. ((13))
says Nanak, listen, mind: he is the very image of God. ((13))
ਉਸਤਤਿ ਨਿੰਦਿਆ ਨਾਹਿ ਜਿਹਿ ਕੰਚਨ ਲੋਹ ਸਮਾਨਿ ॥
Usṯaṯ ninḝi▫ĝ nĝhi jihi kancẖan loh samĝn.
One who is beyond praise and slander, who looks upon gold and iron alike -
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨਿ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਮ੝ਕਤਿ ਤਾਹਿ ਤੈ ਜਾਨਿ ॥੧੪॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ mukaṯ ṯĝhi ṯai jĝn. ((14))
says Nanak, listen, mind: know that such a person is liberated. ((14))
ਹਰਖ੝ ਸੋਗ੝ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਨਹੀ ਬੈਰੀ ਮੀਤ ਸਮਾਨਿ ॥
Harakẖ sog jĝ kai nahī bairī mīṯ samĝn.
One who is not affected by pleasure or pain, who looks upon friend and enemy alike -
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨਿ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਮ੝ਕਤਿ ਤਾਹਿ ਤੈ ਜਾਨਿ ॥੧੫॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ mukaṯ ṯĝhi ṯai jĝn. ((15))
says Nanak, listen, mind: know that such a person is liberated. ((15))
ਭੈ ਕਾਹੂ ਕਉ ਦੇਤ ਨਹਿ ਨਹਿ ਭੈ ਮਾਨਤ ਆਨ ॥
Bẖai kĝhū ka▫o ḝeṯ nėh nėh bẖai mĝnaṯ ĝn.
One who does not frighten anyone, and who is not afraid of anyone else -
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨਿ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਤਾਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਿ ॥੧੬॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ gi▫ĝnī ṯĝhi bakẖĝn. ((16))
says Nanak, listen, mind: call him spiritually wise. ((16))
ਜਿਹਿ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਸਗਲੀ ਤਜੀ ਲੀਓ ਭੇਖ ਬੈਰਾਗ ॥
Jihi bikẖi▫ĝ saglī ṯajī lī▫o bẖekẖ bairĝg.
One who has forsaken all sin and corruption, who wears the robes of neutral detachment -
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨ੝ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਤਿਹ ਨਰ ਮਾਥੈ ਭਾਗ੝ ॥੧੭॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ ṯih nar mĝthai bẖĝg. ((17))
says Nanak, listen, mind: good destiny is written on his forehead. ((17))
ਜਿਹਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਮਤਾ ਤਜੀ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਭਇਓ ਉਦਾਸ੝ ॥
Jihi mĝ▫i▫ĝ mamṯĝ ṯajī sabẖ ṯe bẖa▫i▫o uḝĝs.
One who renounces Maya and possessiveness and is detached from everything -
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨ੝ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਤਿਹ ਘਟਿ ਬ੝ਰਹਮ ਨਿਵਾਸ੝ ॥੧੮॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ ṯih gẖat barahm nivĝs. ((18))
says Nanak, listen, mind: God abides in his heart. ((18))
ਜਿਹਿ ਪ੝ਰਾਨੀ ਹਉਮੈ ਤਜੀ ਕਰਤਾ ਰਾਮ੝ ਪਛਾਨਿ ॥
Jihi parĝnī ha▫umai ṯajī karṯĝ rĝm pacẖẖĝn.
That mortal, who forsakes egotism, and realizes the Creator Lord -
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਵਹ੝ ਮ੝ਕਤਿ ਨਰ੝ ਇਹ ਮਨ ਸਾਚੀ ਮਾਨ੝ ॥੧੯॥
Kaho Nĝnak vahu mukaṯ nar ih man sĝcẖī mĝn. ((19))
says Nanak, that person is liberated; O mind, know this as true. ((19))
ਭੈ ਨਾਸਨ ਦ੝ਰਮਤਿ ਹਰਨ ਕਲਿ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮ੝ ॥
Bẖai nĝsan ḝurmaṯ haran kal mai har ko nĝm.
In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Name of the Lord is the Destroyer of fear, the Eradicator of evil-mindedness.
ਨਿਸਿ ਦਿਨ੝ ਜੋ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਜੈ ਸਫਲ ਹੋਹਿ ਤਿਹ ਕਾਮ ॥੨੦॥
Nis ḝin jo Nĝnak bẖajai safal hohi ṯih kĝm. ((20))
Night and day, O Nanak, whoever vibrates and meditates on the Lord's Name, sees all of his works brought to fruition. ((20))
ਜਿਹਬਾ ਗ੝ਨ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਭਜਹ੝ ਕਰਨ ਸ੝ਨਹ੝ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ੝ ॥
Jihbĝ gun gobinḝ bẖajahu karan sunhu har nĝm.
Vibrate with your tongue the Glorious Praises of the Lord of the Universe; with your ears, hear the Lord's Name.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨਿ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਪਰਹਿ ਨ ਜਮ ਕੈ ਧਾਮ ॥੨੧॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ parėh na jam kai ḝẖĝm. ((21))
Says Nanak, listen, man: you shall not have to go to the house of Death. ((21))
ਜੋ ਪ੝ਰਾਨੀ ਮਮਤਾ ਤਜੈ ਲੋਭ ਮੋਹ ਅਹੰਕਾਰ ॥
Jo parĝnī mamṯĝ ṯajai lobẖ moh ahaŉkĝr.
That mortal who renounces possessiveness, greed, emotional attachment and egotism -
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਆਪਨ ਤਰੈ ਅਉਰਨ ਲੇਤ ਉਧਾਰ ॥੨੨॥
Kaho Nĝnak ĝpan ṯarai a▫uran leṯ uḝẖĝr. ((22))
says Nanak, he himself is saved, and he saves many others as well. ((22))
ਜਿਉ ਸ੝ਪਨਾ ਅਰ੝ ਪੇਖਨਾ ਝਸੇ ਜਗ ਕਉ ਜਾਨਿ ॥
Ji▫o supnĝ ar pekẖnĝ aise jag ka▫o jĝn.
Like a dream and a show, so is this world, you must know.
ਇਨ ਮੈ ਕਛ੝ ਸਾਚੋ ਨਹੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨ੝ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥੨੩॥
In mai kacẖẖ sĝcẖo nahī Nĝnak bin bẖagvĝn. ((23))
None of this is true, O Nanak, without God. ((23))
ਨਿਸਿ ਦਿਨ੝ ਮਾਇਆ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਪ੝ਰਾਨੀ ਡੋਲਤ ਨੀਤ ॥
Nis ḝin mĝ▫i▫ĝ kĝrne parĝnī dolaṯ nīṯ.
Night and day, for the sake of Maya, the mortal wanders constantly.
ਕੋਟਨ ਮੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਕੋਊ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ੝ ਜਿਹ ਚੀਤਿ ॥੨੪॥
Kotan mai Nĝnak ko▫ū nĝrĝ▫in jih cẖīṯ. ((24))
Among millions, O Nanak, there is scarcely anyone, who keeps the Lord in his consciousness. ((24))
ਜੈਸੇ ਜਲ ਤੇ ਬ੝ਦਬ੝ਦਾ ਉਪਜੈ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਨੀਤ ॥
Jaise jal ṯe buḝbuḝĝ upjai binsai nīṯ.
As the bubbles in the water well up and disappear again,
ਜਗ ਰਚਨਾ ਤੈਸੇ ਰਚੀ ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨਿ ਮੀਤ ॥੨੫॥
Jag racẖnĝ ṯaise racẖī kaho Nĝnak sun mīṯ. ((25))
so is the universe created; says Nanak, listen, O my friend! ((25))
ਪ੝ਰਾਨੀ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਚੇਤਈ ਮਦਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੈ ਅੰਧ੝ ॥
Parĝnī kacẖẖū na cẖeṯ▫ī maḝ mĝ▫i▫ĝ kai anḝẖ.
The mortal does not remember the Lord, even for a moment; he is blinded by the wine of Maya.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨ੝ ਹਰਿ ਭਜਨ ਪਰਤ ਤਾਹਿ ਜਮ ਫੰਧ ॥੨੬॥
Kaho Nĝnak bin har bẖajan paraṯ ṯĝhi jam fanḝẖ. ((26))
Says Nanak, without meditating on the Lord, he is caught by the noose of Death. ((26))
ਜਉ ਸ੝ਖ ਕਉ ਚਾਹੈ ਸਦਾ ਸਰਨਿ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਲੇਹ ॥
Ja▫o sukẖ ka▫o cẖĝhai saḝĝ saran rĝm kī leh.
If you yearn for eternal peace, then seek the Sanctuary of the Lord.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨਿ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਦ੝ਰਲਭ ਮਾਨ੝ਖ ਦੇਹ ॥੨੭॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ ḝurlabẖ mĝnukẖ ḝeh. ((27))
Says Nanak, listen, mind: this human body is difficult to obtain. ((27))
ਮਾਇਆ ਕਾਰਨਿ ਧਾਵਹੀ ਮੂਰਖ ਲੋਗ ਅਜਾਨ ॥
Mĝ▫i▫ĝ kĝran ḝẖĝvhī mūrakẖ log ajĝn.
For the sake of Maya, the fools and ignorant people run all around.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨ੝ ਹਰਿ ਭਜਨ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਨਮ੝ ਸਿਰਾਨ ॥੨੮॥
Kaho Nĝnak bin har bẖajan birthĝ janam sirĝn. ((28))
Says Nanak, without meditating on the Lord, life passes away uselessly. ((28))
ਜੋ ਪ੝ਰਾਨੀ ਨਿਸਿ ਦਿਨ੝ ਭਜੈ ਰੂਪ ਰਾਮ ਤਿਹ ਜਾਨ੝ ॥
Jo parĝnī nis ḝin bẖajai rūp rĝm ṯih jĝn.
That mortal who meditates and vibrates upon the Lord night and day - know him to be the embodiment of the Lord.
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ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਹਰਿ ਅੰਤਰ੝ ਨਹੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਚੀ ਮਾਨ੝ ॥੨੯॥
Har jan har anṯar nahī Nĝnak sĝcẖī mĝn. ((29))
There is no difference between the Lord and the humble servant of the Lord; O Nanak, know this as true. ((29))
ਮਨ੝ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੈ ਫਧਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਬਿਸਰਿਓ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਨਾਮ੝ ॥
Man mĝ▫i▫ĝ mai faḝẖ rahi▫o bisri▫o gobinḝ nĝm.
The mortal is entangled in Maya; he has forgotten the Name of the Lord of the Universe.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨ੝ ਹਰਿ ਭਜਨ ਜੀਵਨ ਕਉਨੇ ਕਾਮ ॥੩੦॥
Kaho Nĝnak bin har bẖajan jīvan ka▫une kĝm. ((30))
Says Nanak, without meditating on the Lord, what is the use of this human life? ((30))
ਪ੝ਰਾਨੀ ਰਾਮ੝ ਨ ਚੇਤਈ ਮਦਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੈ ਅੰਧ੝ ॥
Parĝnī rĝm na cẖeṯ▫ī maḝ mĝ▫i▫ĝ kai anḝẖ.
The mortal does not think of the Lord; he is blinded by the wine of Maya.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਭਜਨ ਬਿਨ੝ ਪਰਤ ਤਾਹਿ ਜਮ ਫੰਧ ॥੩੧॥
Kaho Nĝnak har bẖajan bin paraṯ ṯĝhi jam fanḝẖ. ((31))
Says Nanak, without meditating on the Lord, he is caught in the noose of Death. ((31))
ਸ੝ਖ ਮੈ ਬਹ੝ ਸੰਗੀ ਭਝ ਦ੝ਖ ਮੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
Sukẖ mai baho sangī bẖa▫e ḝukẖ mai sang na ko▫e.
In good times, there are many companions around, but in bad times, there is no one at all.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਭਜ੝ ਮਨਾ ਅੰਤਿ ਸਹਾਈ ਹੋਇ ॥੩੨॥
Kaho Nĝnak har bẖaj manĝ anṯ sahĝ▫ī ho▫e. ((32))
Says Nanak, vibrate, and meditate on the Lord; He shall be your only Help and Support in the end. ((32))
ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਭਰਮਤ ਫਿਰਿਓ ਮਿਟਿਓ ਨ ਜਮ ਕੋ ਤ੝ਰਾਸ੝ ॥
Janam janam bẖarmaṯ firi▫o miti▫o na jam ko ṯarĝs.
Mortals wander lost and confused through countless lifetimes; their fear of death is never removed.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਭਜ੝ ਮਨਾ ਨਿਰਭੈ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਬਾਸ੝ ॥੩੩॥
Kaho Nĝnak har bẖaj manĝ nirbẖai pĝvahi bĝs. ((33))
Says Nanak, vibrate and meditate on the Lord, and you shall dwell in the Fearless Lord. ((33))
ਜਤਨ ਬਹ੝ਤ੝ ਮੈ ਕਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਮਿਟਿਓ ਨ ਮਨ ਕੋ ਮਾਨ੝ ॥
Jaṯan bahuṯ mai kar rahi▫o miti▫o na man ko mĝn.
I have tried so many things, but the pride of my mind has not been dispelled.
ਦ੝ਰਮਤਿ ਸਿਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਫਧਿਓ ਰਾਖਿ ਲੇਹ੝ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥੩੪॥
Ḏurmaṯ si▫o Nĝnak faḝẖi▫o rĝkẖ leho bẖagvĝn. ((34))
I am engrossed in evil-mindedness, Nanak. O God, please save me! ((34))
ਬਾਲ ਜ੝ਆਨੀ ਅਰ੝ ਬਿਰਧਿ ਫ੝ਨਿ ਤੀਨਿ ਅਵਸਥਾ ਜਾਨਿ ॥
Bĝl ju▫ĝnī ar biraḝẖ fun ṯīn avasthĝ jĝn.
Childhood, youth and old age - know these as the three stages of life.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਭਜਨ ਬਿਨ੝ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਮਾਨ੝ ॥੩੫॥
Kaho Nĝnak har bẖajan bin birthĝ sabẖ hī mĝn. ((35))
Says Nanak, without meditating on the Lord, everything is useless; you must appreciate this. ((35))
ਕਰਣੋ ਹ੝ਤੋ ਸ੝ ਨਾ ਕੀਓ ਪਰਿਓ ਲੋਭ ਕੈ ਫੰਧ ॥
Karṇo huṯo so nĝ kī▫o pari▫o lobẖ kai fanḝẖ.
You have not done what you should have done; you are entangled in the web of greed.
ਨਾਨਕ ਸਮਿਓ ਰਮਿ ਗਇਓ ਅਬ ਕਿਉ ਰੋਵਤ ਅੰਧ ॥੩੬॥
Nĝnak sami▫o ram ga▫i▫o ab ki▫o rovaṯ anḝẖ. ((36))
Nanak, your time is past and gone; why are you crying now, you blind fool? ((36))
ਮਨ੝ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੈ ਰਮਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਨਿਕਸਤ ਨਾਹਿਨ ਮੀਤ ॥
Man mĝ▫i▫ĝ mai ram rahi▫o niksaṯ nĝhin mīṯ.
The mind is absorbed in Maya - it cannot escape it, my friend.
ਨਾਨਕ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਚਿਤ੝ਰ ਜਿਉ ਛਾਡਿਤ ਨਾਹਿਨ ਭੀਤਿ ॥੩੭॥
Nĝnak mūraṯ cẖiṯar ji▫o cẖẖĝdiṯ nĝhin bẖīṯ. ((37))
Nanak, it is like a picture painted on the wall - it cannot leave it. ((37))
ਨਰ ਚਾਹਤ ਕਛ੝ ਅਉਰ ਅਉਰੈ ਕੀ ਅਉਰੈ ਭਈ ॥
Nar cẖĝhaṯ kacẖẖ a▫or a▫urai kī a▫urai bẖa▫ī.
The man wishes for something, but something different happens.
ਚਿਤਵਤ ਰਹਿਓ ਠਗਉਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਫਾਸੀ ਗਲਿ ਪਰੀ ॥੩੮॥
Cẖiṯvaṯ rahi▫o ṯẖaga▫ur Nĝnak fĝsī gal parī. ((38))
He plots to deceive others, O Nanak, but he places the noose around his own neck instead. ((38))
ਜਤਨ ਬਹ੝ਤ ਸ੝ਖ ਕੇ ਕੀਝ ਦ੝ਖ ਕੋ ਕੀਓ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
Jaṯan bahuṯ sukẖ ke kī▫e ḝukẖ ko kī▫o na ko▫e.
People make all sorts of efforts to find peace and pleasure, but no one tries to earn pain.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਸ੝ਨਿ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋ ਹੋਇ ॥੩੯॥
Kaho Nĝnak sun re manĝ har bẖĝvai so ho▫e. ((39))
Says Nanak, listen, mind: whatever pleases God comes to pass. ((39))
ਜਗਤ੝ ਭਿਖਾਰੀ ਫਿਰਤ੝ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਕੋ ਦਾਤਾ ਰਾਮ੝ ॥
Jagaṯ bẖikẖĝrī firaṯ hai sabẖ ko ḝĝṯĝ rĝm.
The world wanders around begging, but the Lord is the Giver of all.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਨ ਸਿਮਰ੝ ਤਿਹ ਪੂਰਨ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਕਾਮ ॥੪੦॥
Kaho Nĝnak man simar ṯih pūran hovėh kĝm. ((40))
Says Nanak, meditate in remembrance on Him, and all your works will be successful. ((40))
ਝੂਠੈ ਮਾਨ੝ ਕਹਾ ਕਰੈ ਜਗ੝ ਸ੝ਪਨੇ ਜਿਉ ਜਾਨ੝ ॥
Jẖūṯẖai mĝn kahĝ karai jag supne ji▫o jĝn.
Why do you take such false pride in yourself? You must know that the world is just a dream.
ਇਨ ਮੈ ਕਛ੝ ਤੇਰੋ ਨਹੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਹਿਓ ਬਖਾਨਿ ॥੪੧॥
In mai kacẖẖ ṯero nahī Nĝnak kahi▫o bakẖĝn. ((41))
None of this is yours; Nanak proclaims this truth. ((41))
ਗਰਬ੝ ਕਰਤ੝ ਹੈ ਦੇਹ ਕੋ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਛਿਨ ਮੈ ਮੀਤ ॥
Garab karaṯ hai ḝeh ko binsai cẖẖin mai mīṯ.
You are so proud of your body; it shall perish in an instant, my friend.
ਜਿਹਿ ਪ੝ਰਾਨੀ ਹਰਿ ਜਸ੝ ਕਹਿਓ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਹਿ ਜਗ੝ ਜੀਤਿ ॥੪੨॥
Jihi parĝnī har jas kahi▫o Nĝnak ṯihi jag jīṯ. ((42))
That mortal who chants the Praises of the Lord, O Nanak, conquers the world. ((42))
ਜਿਹ ਘਟਿ ਸਿਮਰਨ੝ ਰਾਮ ਕੋ ਸੋ ਨਰ੝ ਮ੝ਕਤਾ ਜਾਨ੝ ॥
Jih gẖat simran rĝm ko so nar mukṯĝ jĝn.
That person, who meditates in remembrance on the Lord in his heart, is liberated - know this well.
ਤਿਹਿ ਨਰ ਹਰਿ ਅੰਤਰ੝ ਨਹੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਚੀ ਮਾਨ੝ ॥੪੩॥
Ŧihi nar har anṯar nahī Nĝnak sĝcẖī mĝn. ((43))
There is no difference between that person and the Lord: O Nanak, accept this as the Truth. ((43))
ਝਕ ਭਗਤਿ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਜਿਹ ਪ੝ਰਾਨੀ ਕੈ ਨਾਹਿ ਮਨਿ ॥
Ėk bẖagaṯ bẖagvĝn jih parĝnī kai nĝhi man.
That person, who does not feel devotion to God in his mind -
ਜੈਸੇ ਸੂਕਰ ਸ੝ਆਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਾਨੋ ਤਾਹਿ ਤਨ੝ ॥੪੪॥
Jaise sūkar su▫ĝn Nĝnak mĝno ṯĝhi ṯan. ((44))
O Nanak, know that his body is like that of a pig, or a dog. ((44))
ਸ੝ਆਮੀ ਕੋ ਗ੝ਰਿਹ੝ ਜਿਉ ਸਦਾ ਸ੝ਆਨ ਤਜਤ ਨਹੀ ਨਿਤ ॥
Su▫ĝmī ko garihu ji▫o saḝĝ su▫ĝn ṯajaṯ nahī niṯ.
A dog never abandons the home of his master.
ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਜਉ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਹ੝ਇ ਇਕ ਚਿਤਿ ॥੪੫॥
Nĝnak ih biḝẖ har bẖaja▫o ik man hu▫e ik cẖiṯ. ((45))
O Nanak, in just the same way, vibrate, and meditate on the Lord, single-mindedly, with one-pointed consciousness. ((45))
ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਅਰ੝ ਦਾਨ ਕਰਿ ਮਨ ਮੈ ਧਰੈ ਗ੝ਮਾਨ੝ ॥
Ŧirath baraṯ ar ḝĝn kar man mai ḝẖarai gumĝn.
Those who make pilgrimages to sacred shrines, observe ritualistic fasts and make donations to charity while still taking pride in their minds -
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਹਫਲ ਜਾਤ ਤਿਹ ਜਿਉ ਕ੝ੰਚਰ ਇਸਨਾਨ੝ ॥੪੬॥
Nĝnak nihfal jĝṯ ṯih ji▫o kuncẖar isnĝn. ((46))
O Nanak, their actions are useless, like the elephant, who takes a bath, and then rolls in the dust. ((46))
ਸਿਰ੝ ਕੰਪਿਓ ਪਗ ਡਗਮਗੇ ਨੈਨ ਜੋਤਿ ਤੇ ਹੀਨ ॥
Sir kampi▫o pag dagmage nain joṯ ṯe hīn.
The head shakes, the feet stagger, and the eyes become dull and weak.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਭਈ ਤਊ ਨ ਹਰਿ ਰਸਿ ਲੀਨ ॥੪੭॥
Kaho Nĝnak ih biḝẖ bẖa▫ī ṯa▫ū na har ras līn. ((47))
Says Nanak, this is your condition. And even now, you have not savored the sublime essence of the Lord. ((47))
4

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Top : Read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji page 1429
ਨਿਜ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖਿਓ ਜਗਤ੝ ਮੈ ਕੋ ਕਾਹੂ ਕੋ ਨਾਹਿ ॥
Nij kar ḝekẖi▫o jagaṯ mai ko kĝhū ko nĝhi.
I had looked upon the world as my own, but no one belongs to anyone else.
ਨਾਨਕ ਥਿਰ੝ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਹੈ ਤਿਹ ਰਾਖੋ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ॥੪੮॥
Nĝnak thir har bẖagaṯ hai ṯih rĝkẖo man mĝhi. ((48))
O Nanak, only devotional worship of the Lord is permanent; enshrine this in your mind. ((48))
ਜਗ ਰਚਨਾ ਸਭ ਝੂਠ ਹੈ ਜਾਨਿ ਲੇਹ੝ ਰੇ ਮੀਤ ॥
Jag racẖnĝ sabẖ jẖūṯẖ hai jĝn leho re mīṯ.
The world and its affairs are totally false; know this well, my friend.
ਕਹਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਥਿਰ੝ ਨਾ ਰਹੈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਲੂ ਕੀ ਭੀਤਿ ॥੪੯॥
Kahi Nĝnak thir nĝ rahai ji▫o bĝlū kī bẖīṯ. ((49))
Says Nanak, it is like a wall of sand; it shall not endure. ((49))
ਰਾਮ੝ ਗਇਓ ਰਾਵਨ੝ ਗਇਓ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਬਹ੝ ਪਰਵਾਰ੝ ॥
Rĝm ga▫i▫o rĝvan ga▫i▫o jĝ ka▫o baho parvĝr.
Raam Chand passed away, as did Raawan, even though he had lots of relatives.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਥਿਰ੝ ਕਛ੝ ਨਹੀ ਸ੝ਪਨੇ ਜਿਉ ਸੰਸਾਰ੝ ॥੫੦॥
Kaho Nĝnak thir kacẖẖ nahī supne ji▫o sansĝr. ((50))
Says Nanak, nothing lasts forever; the world is like a dream. ((50))
ਚਿੰਤਾ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਕੀਜੀਝ ਜੋ ਅਨਹੋਨੀ ਹੋਇ ॥
Cẖinṯĝ ṯĝ kī kījī▫ai jo anhonī ho▫e.
People become anxious, when something unexpected happens.
ਇਹ੝ ਮਾਰਗ੝ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਕੋ ਨਾਨਕ ਥਿਰ੝ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥੫੧॥
Ih mĝrag sansĝr ko Nĝnak thir nahī ko▫e. ((51))
This is the way of the world, O Nanak; nothing is stable or permanent. ((51))
ਜੋ ਉਪਜਿਓ ਸੋ ਬਿਨਸਿ ਹੈ ਪਰੋ ਆਜ੝ ਕੈ ਕਾਲਿ ॥
Jo upji▫o so binas hai paro ĝj kai kĝl.
Whatever has been created shall be destroyed; everyone shall perish, today or tomorrow.
ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਗ੝ਨ ਗਾਇ ਲੇ ਛਾਡਿ ਸਗਲ ਜੰਜਾਲ ॥੫੨॥
Nĝnak har gun gĝ▫e le cẖẖĝd sagal janjĝl. ((52))
O Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, and give up all other entanglements. ((52))
ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
Ḏohrĝ.
Dohraa:
ਬਲ੝ ਛ੝ਟਕਿਓ ਬੰਧਨ ਪਰੇ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਹੋਤ ਉਪਾਇ ॥
Bal cẖẖutki▫o banḝẖan pare kacẖẖū na hoṯ upĝ▫e.
My strength is exhausted, and I am in bondage; I cannot do anything at all.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਅਬ ਓਟ ਹਰਿ ਗਜ ਜਿਉ ਹੋਹ੝ ਸਹਾਇ ॥੫੩॥
Kaho Nĝnak ab ot har gaj ji▫o hohu sahĝ▫e. ((53))
Says Nanak, now, the Lord is my Support; He will help me, as He did the elephant. ((53))
ਬਲ੝ ਹੋਆ ਬੰਧਨ ਛ੝ਟੇ ਸਭ੝ ਕਿਛ੝ ਹੋਤ ਉਪਾਇ ॥
Bal ho▫ĝ banḝẖan cẖẖute sabẖ kicẖẖ hoṯ upĝ▫e.
My strength has been restored, and my bonds have been broken; now, I can do everything.
ਨਾਨਕ ਸਭ੝ ਕਿਛ੝ ਤ੝ਮਰੈ ਹਾਥ ਮੈ ਤ੝ਮ ਹੀ ਹੋਤ ਸਹਾਇ ॥੫੪॥
Nĝnak sabẖ kicẖẖ ṯumrai hĝth mai ṯum hī hoṯ sahĝ▫e. ((54))
Nanak: everything is in Your hands, Lord; You are my Helper and Support. ((54))
ਸੰਗ ਸਖਾ ਸਭਿ ਤਜਿ ਗਝ ਕੋਊ ਨ ਨਿਬਹਿਓ ਸਾਥਿ ॥
Sang sakẖĝ sabẖ ṯaj ga▫e ko▫ū na nib▫hi▫o sĝth.
My associates and companions have all deserted me; no one remains with me.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹ ਬਿਪਤਿ ਮੈ ਟੇਕ ਝਕ ਰਘ੝ਨਾਥ ॥੫੫॥
Kaho Nĝnak ih bipaṯ mai tek ek ragẖunĝth. ((55))
Says Nanak, in this tragedy, the Lord alone is my Support. ((55))
ਨਾਮ੝ ਰਹਿਓ ਸਾਧੂ ਰਹਿਓ ਰਹਿਓ ਗ੝ਰ੝ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ੝ ॥
Nĝm rahi▫o sĝḝẖū rahi▫o rahi▫o gur gobinḝ.
The Naam remains; the Holy Saints remain; the Guru, the Lord of the Universe, remains.
ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹ ਜਗਤ ਮੈ ਕਿਨ ਜਪਿਓ ਗ੝ਰ ਮੰਤ੝ ॥੫੬॥
Kaho Nĝnak ih jagaṯ mai kin japi▫o gur manṯ. ((56))
Says Nanak, how rare are those who chant the Guru's Mantra in this world. ((56))
ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ੝ ਉਰ ਮੈ ਗਹਿਓ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਸਮ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥
Rĝm nĝm ur mai gahi▫o jĝ kai sam nahī ko▫e.
I have enshrined the Lord's Name within my heart; there is nothing equal to it.
ਜਿਹ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਸੰਕਟ ਮਿਟੈ ਦਰਸ੝ ਤ੝ਹਾਰੋ ਹੋਇ ॥੫੭॥੧॥
Jih simraṯ sankat mitai ḝaras ṯuhĝro ho▫e. ((57)(1))
Meditating in remembrance on it, my troubles are taken away; I have received the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. ((57)(1))


Posted many shabads through out Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, seperated by an empty line break.

Btw you can use search function to find word reincarnation however there are also lines in there which don't contain the word reincarnation but are related to it.

for e.g. "Says Nanak, listen, mind: this human body is difficult to obtain."

If you need more shabads I'll post them tomorrow.


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## kggr001 (Jul 10, 2014)

Thank you, Harry Haller ji.


Tejwant ji, this time I didn't post the whole shabad cause I did that before and you didn't like it.
However if you want to see, that its really from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Harry Haller ji posted whole Shabad.

----------------------------------------

Enduring pleasure and pain, drowned in the great ocean of doubt, you shall wander in numerous reincarnations.
You have lost the jewel of human birth by forgetting God; when will you have such an opportunity again? ||3|| You turn on the wheel of reincarnation, like an ox at the oil-press; the night of your life passes away without salvation.

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By His Command, we come, and by His Command, we go; no one is beyond His Command.
Coming and going in reincarnation is ended, O Nanak, for those whose minds are filled with the Lord. ||1||

This soul has lived in many wombs.
Enticed by sweet attachment, it has been trapped in reincarnation.

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In shalok mahalla 9, the 9th guru wrote "Says Nanak, listen, mind: this human body is difficult to obtain."

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Slandering others, you are totally ruined; because of your past actions, you shall be consigned to the womb of reincarnation.  our past actions will not just go away; the most horrible Messenger of Death shall seize you.

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The blind have forgotten the Naam, the Name of the Lord. The self-willed manmukhs are in utter darkness.
Their comings and goings in reincarnation do not end; through death and rebirth, they are wasting away.

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Those who receive His Mercy obtain the True One. The Gurmukhs dwell forever in balanced restraint. ||3||
By true actions, the True Lord is met, and the Guru's Teachings are found.
Then, they are not subject to birth and death; they do not come and go in reincarnation.

----------------------------------------

O mind, swim across, by focusing your consciousness on the Shabad.
Those who do not become Gurmukh do not understand the Naam; they die, and continue coming and going in reincarnation. ||1||Pause||
That body is said to be pure, in which the True Name abides.

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The body is the field of karma in this age; whatever you plant, you shall harvest.

----------------------------------------

I do think that they are talking here about Reincarnation, in sense of you do get born again until one mingles with lord. I don't believe there is a man in heavens with a large beard and staff who is waiting for us to get punished. I believe that Karma and reincarnation(messenger of the death) are the natural laws and not entities.

Also before someone says god is already in me, thats true god is in each and everything, but one has to question himself is his mind also in god, like god is in that person. 

I grouped the quotes of one shabad by give multiple lines same colors.

If you need some more quotes from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, feel free to ask.


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## Harkiran Kaur (Jul 10, 2014)

Quoted from the other thread (since I kind of forgot which thread it was at the time lol):

Ut oh... the R word again....

So Sikhi doesn't believe in Heaven or in Hell (as in the Christian sense)
And it doesn't believe in Reaincarnation (as in the Hinduism sense)
But, Sikhi also doesn't believe that this life is 'IT' as in,.. you die and you're dust and that's it and everything you were - your 'being' is gone, erased... kaput and you become worm food.

So what's left? 

My take on reincarnation is a bit different... not in the sense that something separate migrates from one physical body to another like a ghost playing hop scotch... but if you understand that everything is really one thing... one base energy field... one base conscious energy field... that is ever manifesting reality through vibration... then its easier to grasp. The concept of death itself is moot point because there really is only one reality. Ik Onkar. We are what's not real.... really... in the end - the physical us I mean. The 'DOER' the 'I AM' inside you is what's real. 
The physical bodies are just characters being played (all of us) by the very same actor who also happens to be the director of this huge play we call reality. To merge back with the Creator, in my belief, is to simply awaken to the fact that collectively we all ARE the one. 

There are several places in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji where it tells us that once you realize your OWN true self (or that HE IS ME) what more is there to know.

In the mean time... ONE base energy field.... which I believe is pure consciousness. I don't believe every consciousness is something separate. I believe consciousness is the ONE constant in the Universe. The Universe must have been created - implying creative intent. The Creator must be aware of its own creation. 

So I imagine the Universe to be one pool of base conscious energy which is formless, and yet through contemplation everything arises through vibration (celestial vibration). Einstein even said that everything we know to exist all matter in the Universe is merely energy vibrating at different frequencies. Consciousness itself as taking up no space and yet all space... difficult concept to grasp, but not impossible. (try imagining how much physical space your dreamworld at night takes up in our physical reality, and you will see what I am getting at)

So, compared to an ocean, why can't the same drop of water become a raindrop more than once? 

I look at reincarnation as spiritual progression of the one universal consciousness... each separate individual that we perceive are really bit of the whole even though we don't realize we are connected. 

Merging back with the creator, in my belief is awakening to the fact that we all possess the divine... in essence, collectively, we all are the creator. 

Makes sense to me since the creator is both nirgun / sargun meaning both creator and creation... kind of the same as you dream at night and you are the dream and the characters and also the creator of the dream and yet within the dream itself, you have no form - and you are all forms (you, the dreamer are simply thought, brainwaves to the characters in the dream since you exist outside of it) 

Maya deceives with its illusions... you have forgotten that you are really the 'little dreamer' inside another big dream...so who really is the dreamer??  If you fell asleep and started to dream and could never wake up, would you realize you were dreaming?  (not to bring the movie Matrix into it on purpose but the point is valid)  We have gotten so caught up in the experiences of the characters that we have forgotten that we really are the actor and that this is just a play.  And yes we have played and will play more characters until we decide to end our acting careers.

(see SGGS p 736 for the analogy of reality as a play and the creator as the director and all of the characters, but once the play is over, and the costumes are removed, there is only one - and then it asks where have they gone to? Where did they come from?  In other words there only ever was the one to begin with... only the audience would never know)

I believe spiritual progression through all these different forms is just the natural unfolding of the Universe... so my concept is totally different than say reincarnation in a Hinduism sense. 

Hope it made sense??


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## Harkiran Kaur (Jul 10, 2014)

> ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
> Ik▫oaŉkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
> One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
> 
> ...



So if the creator really is the director of this play we call life, and ALL the characters (us) how does this affect our thought on reincarnation in the traditional sense that somehow implies each individual 'soul' is something separate on its own journey?  If the truth is really oneness - than how does this also affect our thought on death? 

Remember that the 'I AM' within you... the 'DOER' .... the 'EXPERIENCER' is who you really are - YOU are the actor - and you need to take the costumes off eventually... eventually all plays end.  It doesn't mean that you will end.... The character's part may be done, but the actor lives on to perform again.


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## Harkiran Kaur (Jul 10, 2014)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Findingmyway ji,
> 
> Guru fateh.
> 
> ...


 
Tejwant Ji, the point I think is, that any analogy any of us can possibly use to try and explain things (even if we do glimpse reality and have understanding) and even the analogies used in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are all based on experiences and things that we as humans know or have experienced. Otherwise, nobody would understand at all. There would be no way to explain it.... but as Sikhs are we not supposed to try???

I don't think his analogy of a computer was meant to make the Creator look imperfect, but just as a way to explain the concept of how we are all seemingly separate (algorhythms), but also really there is only one thing (the program) and that as a whole its formless... and the only thing that is real / base truth is the programmer (creator). And that the programmer and the program are really the same thing. The nirgun / sargun concept... creator = creation, formless and yet ALL form...without attributes and yet ALL attributes. He was just trying to put it into a concept for others to try and grasp.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has used dreams as metaphors to explain the same thing where the creator is the dreamer and we are all dream characters, it has also used plays as metaphors to express the same concept (see my post above) etc That God is both creator and creation, transcendent and imminent, without attributes and yet posseses all attributes. Unmanifest as the ONE and yet manifest as ALL. 

But no matter what metaphor is used, it's only trying to express the concept that the creator is the base truth, there is only the ONE, we are just aspects of the creator (dream characters, play characters, algorhythms etc insert whatever analogy you want to use). And none of them will be perfect as an analogy because we are using aspects of the creation itself to try and explain something that exists outside of the creation... its impossible. 

You actually have to experience it because no words can accurately describe it.


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## kggr001 (Jul 10, 2014)

Akasha said:


> Tejwant Ji, the point I think is, that any analogy any of us can possibly use to try and explain things (even if we do glimpse reality and have understanding) and even the analogies used in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are all based on experiences and things that we as humans know or have experienced. Otherwise, nobody would understand at all. There would be no way to explain it.... but as Sikhs are we not supposed to try???
> 
> I don't think his analogy of a computer was meant to make the Creator look imperfect, but just as a way to explain the concept of how we are all seemingly separate (algorhythms), but also really there is only one thing (the program) and that as a whole its formless... and the only thing that is real / base truth is the programmer (creator). And that the programmer and the program are really the same thing. The nirgun / sargun concept... creator = creation, formless and yet ALL form...without attributes and yet ALL attributes. He was just trying to put it into a concept for others to try and grasp.
> 
> ...



Akasha ji, this is real wonderful post you posted here, I wish I could write as clear as you.


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## chazSingh (Jul 10, 2014)

Akasha said:


> So if the creator really is the director of this play we call life, and ALL the characters (us) how does this affect our thought on reincarnation in the traditional sense that somehow implies each individual 'soul' is something separate on its own journey?  If the truth is really oneness - than how does this also affect our thought on death?
> 
> Remember that the 'I AM' within you... the 'DOER' .... the 'EXPERIENCER' is who you really are - YOU are the actor - and you need to take the costumes off eventually... eventually all plays end.  It doesn't mean that you will end.... The character's part may be done, but the actor lives on to perform again.



very well said ji,

there are also many shabads that portray a soul after physical death still in an individualized sense...

contemplating the shabad that you posted, where it says "when the play ends" i brings up many questions..

is that referring to the play ending when i experience physical death?

is it referring to the complete play and every single one of the characters... i.e. the end of creation itself..

is it referring to an individual, who upon taking the inner journey, merges with Waheguru within him/herself...?

some interesting things to contemplate on...

in my humble opinion, i feel that even after physical death, we still have a sense of Ego, a sense of being individual...and we can still be affected by desires, ego, anger etc...

I also believe (as highlighted in Gurbani) that we can experience the following whilst still here in the physical self...i.e. the taking off of the costumes and experiencing the 'one' state (excuse my explanations...the mind cannot even fathom such a thing)...

ਸਾਂਗੁ ਉਤਾਰਿ ਥੰਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਿਓ ਪਾਸਾਰਾ ॥  
Sāŉg uṯār thamiĥa▫o pāsārā. 
but when the play ends, he takes off the costumes, 

ਤਬ ਏਕੋ ਏਕੰਕਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ 
Ŧab eko ekankārā. ||1|| 
and then he is one, and only one. ||1||

Thank you for posting such amazing shabads


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## SaintSoldier1699 (Jul 10, 2014)

Akasha said:


> You actually have to experience it because no words can accurately describe it.



This reminds me of the 12th pauri of Jap ji:

ਮੰਨੇ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ Manne kī gaṯ kahī na jā▫e. The state of the faithful cannot be described.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ॥ Je ko kahai picẖẖai pacẖẖuṯā▫e. One who tries to describe this shall regret the attempt.
ਕਾਗਦਿ ਕਲਮ ਨ ਲਿਖਣਹਾਰੁ ॥ Kāgaḏ kalam na likẖaṇhār. No paper, no pen, no scribe
ਮੰਨੇ ਕਾ ਬਹਿ ਕਰਨਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ Manne kā bahi karan vīcẖār. can record the state of the faithful.
ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ Aisā nām niranjan ho▫e. Such is the Name of the Immaculate Lord.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ ਕੋਇ ॥੧੨॥ Je ko man jāṇai man ko▫e. ||12|| Only one who has faith comes to know such a state of mind. ||12||

It's definitely to be experienced :icecreammunda:

Thanks for your post Akasha ji, you definitely explained something complex in an understandable way!


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## chazSingh (Jul 10, 2014)

SaintSoldier1699 said:


> This reminds me of the 12th pauri of Jap ji:
> 
> ਮੰਨੇ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ Manne kī gaṯ kahī na jā▫e. The state of the faithful cannot be described.
> ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ॥ Je ko kahai picẖẖai pacẖẖuṯā▫e. One who tries to describe this shall regret the attempt.
> ...



the problem is people want to be told everything, rather than dive in and experience the ocean for themselves...


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## Harkiran Kaur (Jul 10, 2014)

chazSingh said:


> is that referring to the play ending when i experience physical death?
> 
> is it referring to the complete play and every single one of the characters... i.e. the end of creation itself..


 
I believe it's referring to both.  I believe that because we are an inward expression of the divine, we also posses that same creative potential when we dream, when we contemplate etc. (All creation first starts as a thoughtform prior to becoming reality).

So the shabad I believe refers to the Creator staging the play that is our reality, and its also referring to our creations as inward expressions of ourselves.  

Ultimately though, no matter how many levels inward we could go... there is really only ONE that is staging the entire thing.  Like when you hold two mirrors facing each other... you see an infinite number of reflections of yourself inward in the mirror.  But there really is only ONE you. 

 Again a mirror is a limited way to try and express it. Because a mirror implies every reflection is the exact same when we know thats not the case in reality, although each reflection does posses the same basic attribute of 'I AM'.  ...Again, I was just trying to illustrate the inward reflection idea using a reference we already have.  Sometimes its frustrating to try and even get the ideas in my head out... because the references I can use are so limited in comparison to the idea I am trying to explain... 

Okay I need a break as my head's about to explode haha


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## Harry Haller (Jul 11, 2014)

The truth of the matter regarding death in Sikhism is that we truly do not know, will never know and have to accept that, in my opinion.


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## Tejwant Singh (Jul 11, 2014)

SaintSoldier1699 said:


> This reminds me of the 12th pauri of Jap ji:
> 
> ਮੰਨੇ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ Manne kī gaṯ kahī na jā▫e. The state of the faithful cannot be described.
> ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ॥ Je ko kahai picẖẖai pacẖẖuṯā▫e. One who tries to describe this shall regret the attempt.
> ...


,

SaintSoldier1699,

Guru Fateh.

This 12th Pauri in the Jap is just showing us how to get into the Gurmat rocket to take a ride to the Gurmat Galaxy.  The next 3 pauris talk about the Sikh who has already gotten ready to enjoy the Gurmat journey to the Sikhi galaxy.

Hence the vast span between ਮੰਨੇ and ਮੰਨੈ , the two step dance of the personal experiences.

How a subtle difference between the two sounds of ੇ  and ੈ can create a huge leap in the personal experiences between the two!

Our visionary Gurus knew how to cajole us into learning the wonders of life by showing us step by step manual which is much easier than assembling  Ikea's one legged stool.

Tejwant Singh


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