# Amrit Vela - Why We Must Put It Into Practice To Hear The Inner Shabad And For Inner Cleansing



## chazSingh (Jul 7, 2015)

Such a beautiful short and concise shabad that highlights the importance of regular Amrit Vela. With Guru Ji's Blessings, myself and many other lost and wandering souls that i know personally have been gently guided by Guru Ji back onto the correct path and nothing has helped more in cleansing our minds than doing regular Amrit Vela.




 

*I hope this Shabad and Many other shabads will inspire others to do it regularly...
once your mind single pointedly attaches to the shabad you utter...i pray Guru Ji blesses you all with the sight and sound of the inner shabad which vibrates within us all, and True lasting cleansing can take place.*

God Bless all.

*please feel free to post other shabads portraying the importance of this most amazing part of the day which sets us up perfectly to live better and purer and helpful lives throughout the rest of the day.*

*Please do not post if you want proof of this, or disagree with Amrit Vela. this is not a thread for discussion of whether something is True or Not...it is to inspire those that are thinking of putting it into practice and immersing themselves in the shabad.*

*Waheguru is True...Ask to See it for yourselves...focus on doing this...do your ardaas to Waheguru, and Let him take you on this wonderful journey of which i have only just skimmed the surface of..*

*taste, and then inspire others to taste also...*

*this Shabad is by Bhatt Mathuraa in Svaiyay Mehl 5 on Pannaa 1404 *



n*i*ramal n*aa*m s*u*dhh*aa* parap*oo*ran sabadh thara(n)g pragatt*i*th dh*i*n *aa*gar ||

_The Immaculate, Sacred Pool of the Guru is overflowing with the waves of the Shabad, radiantly revealed in the early hours before the dawn.
_

geh*i*r ga(n)bh*ee*r athh*aa*h ath badd s*u*bhar sadh*aa* sabh b*i*dhh rathan*aa*gar ||

_He is Deep and Profound, Unfathomable and utterly Great, eternally overflowing with all sorts of jewels._



sa(n)th mar*aa*l kareh*i* ka(n)th*oo*hal th*i*n jam thr*aa*s m*i*tt*i*ou dh*u*kh k*aa*gar ||

_The Saint-swans celebrate; their fear of death is erased, along with the accounts of their pain._



kalaj*u*g dh*u*rath dh*oo*r karab*ae* ko dharasan g*u*r*oo* sagal s*u*kh s*aa*gar ||4||

_In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the sins are taken away; the Blessed Vision of the Guru's Darshan is the Ocean of all peace and comfort. ||4||_


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## Original (Jul 7, 2015)

chazSingh said:


> Such a beautiful short and concise shabad that highlights the importance of regular Amrit Vela. With Guru Ji's Blessings, myself and many other lost and wandering souls that i know personally have been gently guided by Guru Ji back onto the correct path and nothing has helped more in cleansing our minds than doing regular Amrit Vela.
> 
> *I hope this Shabad and Many other shabads will inspire others to do it regularly...
> once your mind single pointedly attaches to the shabad you utter...i pray Guru Ji blesses you all with the sight and sound of the inner shabad which vibrates within us all, and True lasting cleansing can take place.*
> ...



Dearest Chaz

If I'm allowed an opinion, can all participators be welcomed, please ? When have you known Gur Ghar to say no to anyone and draft restrictive covenants to effect sanction? Life is too short for phen ji phen ji my brother. Let us enjoy together - please read it in "comfort".

Baba Farid was presented certain gifts by well wishers, one of the gift was a pair of scissors. He remarked thus, " I will not take the scissors, instead, bring me a needle for I'm here to unite and not divide".

The gift you have is for sharing, inspiring and embracing. Like me, many others love you for your gentle and caring devotion to Sikhi.

Amrit Vela deserves an extensive discussion, in my view !

Critical thinking of others prepares us for better whilst clear thinking of ours helps us to penetrate deeper into the practice of nam simran. Once the thought, from wave to crest to stillness is marshalled home, our soul experiences a higher reality through its faculty of direct perception. The wandering mind now anchored, we perceive things and remain unaffected by them. We learn to let go off the extra baggage and begin to feel lighter, like a feather dropping in mid-air from a racing pigeon. This process leads us to unperturbed receptivity of a heightened consciousness and allows the "inner" being to reveal itself.

In my opinion, reasons reserved, explicit details of inner experiences should not be furnished because here is a process to realise Nanak's sargun nirgun on a 121. The mind with its virgin veil ought to "experience" and not "know" what lies ahead. Gur Ghar has called it* jeevat marya bhav jal tariya.

More another time - 

Goodnight n Godbless*


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## chazSingh (Jul 8, 2015)

I agree ji, explicit details of inner experiences should not be discussed as each journey is unique.

There have been many threads in the past about Amrit Vela which you can see just by scrolling down. which get thread bombed by "i don't believe this is real' "i don't think amrit vela is certain time of the day' etc etc...and not much good comes out of it apart from posters going back n forth.

i merely wanted people to share shabads that inspire us to do amrit vela...that create a sense of longing within us which gets the truth seeker to put this into practice. I don't feel a forum always has to be about dualistic opinons...yes or no...believe or don;t believe etc....sometimes it is good to bring up a topic that like minded people can share beautiful shabad about something they are putting into practice..

all others can join if they so please if inspired to do so..


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## chazSingh (Jul 8, 2015)

*This Shabad is by Bhagat Sheikh Fareed Ji in Salok Fareed Jee on Pannaa 1383 
*



far*ee*dh*aa* p*i*shhal r*aa*th n j*aa*g*i*ouh*i* j*ee*vadharr*o* m*u*e*i*ouh*i* ||

_Fareed, if you do not awaken in the early hours before dawn, you are dead while yet alive._



j*ae* th*ai* rab v*i*s*aa*r*iaa* th rab n v*i*sar*i*ouh*i* ||107||

_Although you have forgotten God, God has not forgotten you. ||107||_


for so many years i drank excessive amounts of alcohol...tried drugs...slept through the night, woke up...did the same again...overeating....over thinking...thoughts and actions based on lust, greed, desire, attachment, anger and Ego...i was dead whilst alive...

This amazing part of the day allowed me to reflect upon my life...reflect upon God and not be disturbed by the world around me which i was a slave to...Amrit Vela allowed me to start changing my life completely.

*God Didn't Forget me even though i had forgotten Him..*.


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## Harry Haller (Jul 8, 2015)

chazSingh said:


> There have been many threads in the past about Amrit Vela which you can see just by scrolling down. which get thread bombed by "i don't believe this is real' "i don't think amrit vela is certain time of the day' etc etc...and not much good comes out of it apart from posters going back n forth.



This will be my only contribution to this post, however, I would like to say that I agree, unless there is a thread specifically questioning such. I am also happy, and I am sure Ishnaji is also happy to enforce such. 




chazSingh said:


> i merely wanted people to share shabads that inspire us to do amrit vela...that create a sense of longing within us which gets the truth seeker to put this into practice. I don't feel a forum always has to be about dualistic opinons...yes or no...believe or don;t believe etc....sometimes it is good to bring up a topic that like minded people can share beautiful shabad about something they are putting into practice..



A forum by definition should have lots of opinions, and through these opinions somewhere lies the truth. I do not pretend to know the truth, I do not even know if the truth is individual, or universal, or even affected by time. It is important that no opinion is given as absolute, this, in my opinion is what invites questioning. The whole, 'this is the way, you should try it' is what tends to motivate my own input, merely to balance, but if we can all get in the habit of respect for others beliefs, that can only be a good thing. It is not my way, or your way, it is a question of learning what you can, even if it is understanding something you do not agree with. 

There has been enough debate on these matters to educate us all the sum total of zero in respect of what we have learned, although in the process we have learned much about the posters, which is not really the point of this forum. 

There is a time and place for everything, such posts, if presented honestly and with no agenda, in my opinion, are a valuable forum asset, as are the posters.


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## Tejwant Singh (Jul 8, 2015)

chazSingh said:


> *This Shabad is by Bhagat Sheikh Fareed Ji in Salok Fareed Jee on Pannaa 1383
> *
> 
> 
> ...




Chaz Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Both your shabads that you have copied and pasted here are incomplete. Just copying and pasting what you feel about these verses may be a transitory feel good for you which is wonderful and I am happy for you. 

Having said that, let's interact on the whole shabads  with our own understandings so we can all cultivate the long lasting good feelings in order  to make our Sikhi path blissful.

Posting just portions  of the Shabads rather than the complete ones is like cooking chappati only on one side. 

Thanks for this great thread.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Harry Haller (Jul 8, 2015)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Chaz Singh ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> ...



It has to be said that it is the terms of service of this forum that Shabads are quoted in entirety with full reference, this is to avoid Shabads being taken out of context, and to be honest, a few lines can justify a point that the Shabad is actually making in the opposite. Since SPNAdminji died last year, the enforcement of this has been lax, so let us have a compromise here, I will start a thread explaining the format that Bani should be presented, and from that point we will try and see if that can be encouraged. The format will be as per the terms of service.


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## Ishna (Jul 9, 2015)

I'm looking forward to reading more shabads in support of your point of view, Chaz Ji.  Whilst I disagree, I will keep those thoughts in another thread here.


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## chazSingh (Jul 9, 2015)

harry haller said:


> It has to be said that it is the terms of service of this forum that Shabads are quoted in entirety with full reference, this is to avoid Shabads being taken out of context, and to be honest, a few lines can justify a point that the Shabad is actually making in the opposite. Since SPNAdminji died last year, the enforcement of this has been lax, so let us have a compromise here, I will start a thread explaining the format that Bani should be presented, and from that point we will try and see if that can be encouraged. The format will be as per the terms of service.




They were taken in their entirety from sikhi to the max...some shabads are short..others are very long


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## chazSingh (Jul 9, 2015)

I really don;t know how clear and concise a shabad can be...how clear Guru Ji can be on this subject.

I hope everyone reading this shabad can be inspired to do Amrit Vela and start receiving His Gifts...

ਸਲੋਕ  ਮਃ  ੨  ॥
सलोक मः २ ॥
Salok mėhlā 2.
Shalok, Second Mehl:
ਅਠੀ  ਪਹਰੀ  ਅਠ  ਖੰਡ  ਨਾਵਾ  ਖੰਡੁ  ਸਰੀਰੁ  ॥
अठी पहरी अठ खंड नावा खंडु सरीरु ॥
Aṯẖī pahrī aṯẖ kẖand nāvā kẖand sarīr.
Twenty-four hours a day, destroy the eight things, and in the ninth place, conquer the body.
ਤਿਸੁ  ਵਿਚਿ  ਨਉ  ਨਿਧਿ  ਨਾਮੁ  ਏਕੁ  ਭਾਲਹਿ  ਗੁਣੀ  ਗਹੀਰੁ  ॥
तिसु विचि नउ निधि नामु एकु भालहि गुणी गहीरु ॥
Ŧis vicẖ na▫o niḏẖ nām ek bẖālėh guṇī gahīr.
Within the body are the nine treasures of the Name of the Lord-seek the depths of these virtues.
ਕਰਮਵੰਤੀ  ਸਾਲਾਹਿਆ  ਨਾਨਕ  ਕਰਿ  ਗੁਰੁ  ਪੀਰੁ  ॥
करमवंती सालाहिआ नानक करि गुरु पीरु ॥
Karamvanṯī salāhi▫ā Nānak kar gur pīr.
Those blessed with the karma of good actions praise the Lord. O Nanak, they make the Guru their spiritual teacher.
ਚਉਥੈ  ਪਹਰਿ  ਸਬਾਹ  ਕੈ  ਸੁਰਤਿਆ  ਉਪਜੈ  ਚਾਉ  ॥
चउथै पहरि सबाह कै सुरतिआ उपजै चाउ ॥
Cẖa▫uthai pahar sabāh kai surṯi▫ā upjai cẖā▫o.
In the fourth watch of the early morning hours, a longing arises in their higher consciousness.
ਤਿਨਾ  ਦਰੀਆਵਾ  ਸਿਉ  ਦੋਸਤੀ  ਮਨਿ  ਮੁਖਿ  ਸਚਾ  ਨਾਉ  ॥
तिना दरीआवा सिउ दोसती मनि मुखि सचा नाउ ॥
Ŧinā ḏarī▫āvā si▫o ḏosṯī man mukẖ sacẖā nā▫o.
They are attuned to the river of life; the True Name is in their minds and on their lips.
ਓਥੈ  ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ  ਵੰਡੀਐ  ਕਰਮੀ  ਹੋਇ  ਪਸਾਉ  ॥
ओथै अम्रितु वंडीऐ करमी होइ पसाउ ॥
Othai amriṯ vandī▫ai karmī ho▫e pasā▫o.
The Ambrosial Nectar is distributed, and those with good karma receive this gift.
ਕੰਚਨ  ਕਾਇਆ  ਕਸੀਐ  ਵੰਨੀ  ਚੜੈ  ਚੜਾਉ  ॥
कंचन काइआ कसीऐ वंनी चड़ै चड़ाउ ॥
Kancẖan kā▫i▫ā kasī▫ai vannī cẖaṛai cẖaṛā▫o.
Their bodies become golden, and take on the color of spirituality.
ਜੇ  ਹੋਵੈ  ਨਦਰਿ  ਸਰਾਫ  ਕੀ  ਬਹੁੜਿ  ਨ  ਪਾਈ  ਤਾਉ  ॥
जे होवै नदरि सराफ की बहुड़ि न पाई ताउ ॥
Je hovai naḏar sarāf kī bahuṛ na pā▫ī ṯā▫o.
If the Jeweler casts His Glance of Grace, they are not placed in the fire again.
ਸਤੀ  ਪਹਰੀ  ਸਤੁ  ਭਲਾ  ਬਹੀਐ  ਪੜਿਆ  ਪਾਸਿ  ॥
सती पहरी सतु भला बहीऐ पड़िआ पासि ॥
Saṯī pahrī saṯ bẖalā bahī▫ai paṛi▫ā pās.
Throughout the other seven watches of the day, it is good to speak the Truth, and sit with the spiritually wise.
ਓਥੈ  ਪਾਪੁ  ਪੁੰਨੁ  ਬੀਚਾਰੀਐ  ਕੂੜੈ  ਘਟੈ  ਰਾਸਿ  ॥
ओथै पापु पुंनु बीचारीऐ कूड़ै घटै रासि ॥
Othai pāp punn bīcẖārī▫ai kūrhai gẖatai rās.
There, vice and virtue are distinguished, and the capital of falsehood is decreased.
ਓਥੈ  ਖੋਟੇ  ਸਟੀਅਹਿ  ਖਰੇ  ਕੀਚਹਿ  ਸਾਬਾਸਿ  ॥
ओथै खोटे सटीअहि खरे कीचहि साबासि ॥
Othai kẖote satī▫ah kẖare kīcẖėh sābās.
There, the counterfeit are cast aside, and the genuine are cheered.
ਬੋਲਣੁ  ਫਾਦਲੁ  ਨਾਨਕਾ  ਦੁਖੁ  ਸੁਖੁ  ਖਸਮੈ  ਪਾਸਿ  ॥੧॥
बोलणु फादलु नानका दुखु सुखु खसमै पासि ॥१॥
Bolaṇ fāḏal nānkā ḏukẖ sukẖ kẖasmai pās. ||1||
Speech is vain and useless. O Nanak, pain and pleasure are in the power of our Lord and Master. ||1||


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## Tejwant Singh (Jul 10, 2015)

chazSingh said:


> *This Shabad is by Bhagat Sheikh Fareed Ji in Salok Fareed Jee on Pannaa 1383
> *
> 
> 
> ...



Chaz Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

When I said the Shabads you posted here were incomplete, I will just cite one example above to show what I meant,the one from Sheikh Farid. This is a 3 Salok Shabad compiled by Guru Arjan Dev on page 1383 in the SGGS, our 5th Guru who was tortured to death  which enabled us to be here today, interacting over the internet in this wonderful forum called SPN. The English literal translation is by Sant Singh Khalsa and the Punjabi interpretation is by Prof. Sahib Singh. I have no idea how fluent you are in Gurmukhi but English Translation is quite misleading and much to be desired.

Here is the necklace threaded by Guru Arjan from the pearls of Sheikh Farid:

ਮਃ ੫ ॥
Mėhlā 5.
Fifth Mehl:

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਗਰਬੁ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਵਡਿਆਈਆ ਧਨਿ ਜੋਬਨਿ ਆਗਾਹ ॥
Farīḏā garab jinĥā vaḏi▫ā▫ī▫ā ḏẖan joban āgāh.
Fareed, those who are very proud of their greatness, wealth and youth,
ਗਰਬੁ = ਅਹੰਕਾਰ। ਵਡਿਆਈਆ ਗਰਬੁ = ਵਡਿਆਈਆਂ ਦਾ ਮਾਣ, ਦੁਨੀਆਵੀ ਇੱਜ਼ਤ ਦਾ ਮਾਣ। ਧਨਿ = ਧਨ ਦੇ ਕਾਰਣ। ਜੋਬਨਿ = ਜੁਆਨੀ ਦੇ ਕਾਰਣ। ਆਗਾਹ = ਬੇਅੰਤ।
ਹੇ ਫਰੀਦ! ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਦੁਨੀਆਵੀ ਇੱਜ਼ਤ ਦਾ ਅਹੰਕਾਰ (ਰਿਹਾ), ਬੇਅੰਤ ਧਨ ਦੇ ਕਾਰਣ ਜਾਂ ਜੁਆਨੀ ਦੇ ਕਾਰਣ (ਕੋਈ) ਮਾਣ ਰਿਹਾ,

ਖਾਲੀ ਚਲੇ ਧਣੀ ਸਿਉ ਟਿਬੇ ਜਿਉ ਮੀਹਾਹੁ ॥੧੦੫॥
Kẖālī cẖale ḏẖaṇī si▫o tibe ji▫o mīhahu. ||105||
shall return empty-handed from their Lord, like sand hills after the rain. ||105||
ਧਣੀ = ਰੱਬ, ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ। ਸਿਉ = ਤੋਂ। ਮੀਹਾਹੁ = ਮੀਂਹ ਤੋਂ ॥੧੦੫॥
ਉਹ (ਜਗਤ ਵਿਚੋਂ) ਮਾਲਕ (ਦੀ ਮੇਹਰ) ਤੋਂ ਸੱਖਣੇ ਹੀ ਚਲੇ ਗਏ, ਜਿਵੇਂ ਟਿੱਬੇ ਮੀਂਹ (ਦੇ ਵੱਸਣ) ਪਿੱਛੋਂ (ਸੁੱਕੇ ਰਹਿ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ) ॥੧੦੫॥

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਤਿਨਾ ਮੁਖ ਡਰਾਵਣੇ ਜਿਨਾ ਵਿਸਾਰਿਓਨੁ ਨਾਉ ॥
Farīḏā ṯinā mukẖ darāvaṇe jinā visāri▫on nā▫o.
Fareed, the faces of those who forget the Lord's Name are dreadful.
ਹੇ ਫਰੀਦ! ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਬੰਦਿਆਂ ਨੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਭੁਲਾਇਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ, ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਮੂੰਹ ਡਰਾਉਣੇ ਲੱਗਦੇ ਹਨ (ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਵੇਖਦਿਆਂ ਡਰ ਲੱਗਦਾ ਹੈ, ਭਾਵੇਂ ਉਹ ਪੱਟ ਪਹਿਨਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਹੋਣ, ਧਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਹੋਣ, ਜੁਆਨੀ ਵਾਲੇ ਹੋਣ ਜਾਂ ਮਾਣ ਵਡਿਆਈਆਂ ਵਾਲੇ ਹੋਣ)।

ਐਥੈ ਦੁਖ ਘਣੇਰਿਆ ਅਗੈ ਠਉਰ ਨ ਠਾਉ ॥੧੦੬॥
Aithai ḏukẖ gẖaṇeri▫ā agai ṯẖa▫ur na ṯẖā▫o. ||106||
They suffer terrible pain here, and hereafter they find no place of rest or refuge. ||106||
ਐਥੈ = ਇਸ ਜੀਵਨ ਵਿਚ। ਘਣੇਰਿਆ = ਘਨੇਰੇ, ਬੜੇ। ਠਉਰ ਨ ਠਾਉ = ਨਾਹ ਥਾਂ ਨਾ ਥਿੱਤਾ ॥੧੦੬॥
(ਜਿਤਨਾ ਚਿਰ) ਉਹ ਇਥੇ (ਜਿਊਂਦੇ ਹਨ, ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ) ਕਈ ਦੁੱਖ ਵਾਪਰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਤੇ ਅਗਾਂਹ ਵੀ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਥਾਂ-ਥਿੱਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਮਿਲਦਾ (ਭਾਵ, ਧੱਕੇ ਹੀ ਪੈਂਦੇ ਹਨ) ॥੧੦੬॥

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਪਿਛਲ ਰਾਤਿ ਨ ਜਾਗਿਓਹਿ ਜੀਵਦੜੋ ਮੁਇਓਹਿ ॥
Farīḏā picẖẖal rāṯ na jāgi▫ohi jīvaḏ▫ṛo mu▫i▫ohi.
Fareed, if you do not awaken in the early hours before dawn, you are dead while yet alive.
ਪਿਛਲਿ ਰਾਤਿ = ਪਿਛਲੀ ਰਾਤੇ, ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲੇ। ਨ ਜਾਗਿਓਹਿ = ਤੂੰ ਨਾਹ ਜਾਗਿਆ। ਮੁਇਓਹਿ = ਤੂੰ ਮੋਇਆ।
ਹੇ ਫਰੀਦ! ਜੇ ਤੂੰ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਗਿਆ ਤਾਂ (ਇਹ ਕੋਝਾ ਜੀਵਨ) ਜਿਊਂਦਾ ਹੀ ਤੂੰ ਮਰਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈਂ।

ਜੇ ਤੈ ਰਬੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿਆ ਤ ਰਬਿ ਨ ਵਿਸਰਿਓਹਿ ॥੧੦੭॥
Je ṯai rab visāri▫ā ṯa rab na visari▫ohi. ||107||
Although you have forgotten God, God has not forgotten you. ||107||
ਤੈ = ਤੂੰ। ਰਬਿ = ਰੱਬ ਨੇ ॥੧੦੭॥
ਜੇ ਤੂੰ ਰੱਬ ਨੂੰ ਭੁਲਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ, ਤਾਂ ਰੱਬ ਨੇ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਭੁਲਾਇਆ (ਭਾਵ, ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਹਰ ਵੇਲੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਅਮਲਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਵੇਖ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ) ॥੧੦੭॥

This is the whole necklace threaded by our 5th Guru from the pearls of Baba Farid. It does not do any justice, rather it is unfair to our visionary Gurus when we break the necklace and scatter the pearls on the floor, pick one pearl up to prove our some kind of  personal point rather than  have the grace to wear this necklace around our neck as the blessed ones.

When you want to discuss the whole necklace, please feel free to open your heart and say what this necklace means to you, not just one pearl, then we can all pitch in with our own understanding which shall enrich all of us in unison, as a result, each of us will dance with our inner orchestra while wearing this necklace with grace.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Ishna (Jul 10, 2015)

Discussion on Baba Fareed Ji's shaloks starts in the other thread here: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/threa...sing-what-does-gurbani-say.44909/#post-201935

We can continue to use this present thread for the promotion of early rising.


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## chazSingh (Jul 10, 2015)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Chaz Singh ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> ...




thanks for posting the full shabad.

i often use sikhi to the max...when you click open full shabad...it shows the full shabad which i copied and pasted. I'm assuming everything on their site is correct...but of course they can make mistakes in how they have seperated some shabads...


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## chazSingh (Jul 10, 2015)

*God in Mind 24/7*

I feel compelled to repost a shabad i posted above...which i feel describes how we can have God in mind 24/7... The shabad for me, states 

1. the importance of Amrit Vela Simran/Contemplation etc. 
2. and then goes on to describe what we must do through the rest of the Day ... making up the *24/7* i.e. do truthful deeds, sit with like minded people and do *vichar*...and this can be anything like...sharing with the needy...discussing on forum sikhi topics...etc etc.

This goes very close to being 24/7... during my 24 hours in a day...I am sleeping for 4-5 hours max, the rest is my usual wakeful life...and 2-3 hours during Amrit vela.

*The avarage person will sleep between 6 and 9 hours in a day, then they are straight into their busy hectic life. so personally i fail to see how they can have god in mind 24/7*

*Has any other Amrit Vela practicing sikhs ever had their simran continue during their sleep? i often can hear 'waheuguru' whilst i am sleeping...*

ਸਲੋਕ  ਮਃ  ੨  ॥
सलोक मः २ ॥
Salok mėhlā 2.
Shalok, Second Mehl:
ਅਠੀ  ਪਹਰੀ  ਅਠ  ਖੰਡ  ਨਾਵਾ  ਖੰਡੁ  ਸਰੀਰੁ  ॥
अठी पहरी अठ खंड नावा खंडु सरीरु ॥
Aṯẖī pahrī aṯẖ kẖand nāvā kẖand sarīr.
*Twenty-four hours a day, destroy the eight things, and in the ninth place, conquer the body.*
ਤਿਸੁ  ਵਿਚਿ  ਨਉ  ਨਿਧਿ  ਨਾਮੁ  ਏਕੁ  ਭਾਲਹਿ  ਗੁਣੀ  ਗਹੀਰੁ  ॥
तिसु विचि नउ निधि नामु एकु भालहि गुणी गहीरु ॥
Ŧis vicẖ na▫o niḏẖ nām ek bẖālėh guṇī gahīr.
Within the body are the nine treasures of the Name of the Lord-seek the depths of these virtues.
ਕਰਮਵੰਤੀ  ਸਾਲਾਹਿਆ  ਨਾਨਕ  ਕਰਿ  ਗੁਰੁ  ਪੀਰੁ  ॥
करमवंती सालाहिआ नानक करि गुरु पीरु ॥
Karamvanṯī salāhi▫ā Nānak kar gur pīr.
Those blessed with the karma of good actions praise the Lord. O Nanak, they make the Guru their spiritual teacher.
ਚਉਥੈ  ਪਹਰਿ  ਸਬਾਹ  ਕੈ  ਸੁਰਤਿਆ  ਉਪਜੈ  ਚਾਉ  ॥
चउथै पहरि सबाह कै सुरतिआ उपजै चाउ ॥
Cẖa▫uthai pahar sabāh kai surṯi▫ā upjai cẖā▫o.
*In the fourth watch of the early morning hours, a longing arises in their higher consciousness.*
ਤਿਨਾ  ਦਰੀਆਵਾ  ਸਿਉ  ਦੋਸਤੀ  ਮਨਿ  ਮੁਖਿ  ਸਚਾ  ਨਾਉ  ॥
तिना दरीआवा सिउ दोसती मनि मुखि सचा नाउ ॥
Ŧinā ḏarī▫āvā si▫o ḏosṯī man mukẖ sacẖā nā▫o.
*They are attuned to the river of life; the True Name is in their minds and on their lips.*
ਓਥੈ  ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ  ਵੰਡੀਐ  ਕਰਮੀ  ਹੋਇ  ਪਸਾਉ  ॥
ओथै अम्रितु वंडीऐ करमी होइ पसाउ ॥
Othai amriṯ vandī▫ai karmī ho▫e pasā▫o.
*The Ambrosial Nectar is distributed, and those with good karma receive this gift.*
ਕੰਚਨ  ਕਾਇਆ  ਕਸੀਐ  ਵੰਨੀ  ਚੜੈ  ਚੜਾਉ  ॥
कंचन काइआ कसीऐ वंनी चड़ै चड़ाउ ॥
Kancẖan kā▫i▫ā kasī▫ai vannī cẖaṛai cẖaṛā▫o.
*Their bodies become golden, and take on the color of spirituality.*
ਜੇ  ਹੋਵੈ  ਨਦਰਿ  ਸਰਾਫ  ਕੀ  ਬਹੁੜਿ  ਨ  ਪਾਈ  ਤਾਉ  ॥
जे होवै नदरि सराफ की बहुड़ि न पाई ताउ ॥
Je hovai naḏar sarāf kī bahuṛ na pā▫ī ṯā▫o.
If the Jeweler casts His Glance of Grace, they are not placed in the fire again.
ਸਤੀ  ਪਹਰੀ  ਸਤੁ  ਭਲਾ  ਬਹੀਐ  ਪੜਿਆ  ਪਾਸਿ  ॥
सती पहरी सतु भला बहीऐ पड़िआ पासि ॥
Saṯī pahrī saṯ bẖalā bahī▫ai paṛi▫ā pās.
*Throughout the other seven watches of the day, it is good to speak the Truth, and sit with the spiritually wise.*
ਓਥੈ  ਪਾਪੁ  ਪੁੰਨੁ  ਬੀਚਾਰੀਐ  ਕੂੜੈ  ਘਟੈ  ਰਾਸਿ  ॥
ओथै पापु पुंनु बीचारीऐ कूड़ै घटै रासि ॥
Othai pāp punn bīcẖārī▫ai kūrhai gẖatai rās.
There, vice and virtue are distinguished, and the capital of falsehood is decreased.
ਓਥੈ  ਖੋਟੇ  ਸਟੀਅਹਿ  ਖਰੇ  ਕੀਚਹਿ  ਸਾਬਾਸਿ  ॥
ओथै खोटे सटीअहि खरे कीचहि साबासि ॥
Othai kẖote satī▫ah kẖare kīcẖėh sābās.
There, the counterfeit are cast aside, and the genuine are cheered.
ਬੋਲਣੁ  ਫਾਦਲੁ  ਨਾਨਕਾ  ਦੁਖੁ  ਸੁਖੁ  ਖਸਮੈ  ਪਾਸਿ  ॥੧॥
बोलणु फादलु नानका दुखु सुखु खसमै पासि ॥१॥
Bolaṇ fāḏal nānkā ḏukẖ sukẖ kẖasmai pās. ||1||
Speech is vain and useless. O Nanak, pain and pleasure are in the power of our Lord and Master. ||1||

*The AMbroisial Nectar is distributed at this time (Amrit Vela)...a longing arises in the higher consciousness...bodies become golden...*
and then for the rest of the wakeful day:
speak the truth, do truthful deeds, share with the needy, do vichar, contemplate...have god in mind always and in every deed.

This in my humble opinion...for the seeker who is still stuck in Maya and desires etc (that includes me)...is the solution put forward by Guru Ji.


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## Harry Haller (Sep 1, 2017)

sorry I cannot remember if this is the arguing thread or the information only thread


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## Sikhilove (Sep 2, 2017)

chazSingh said:


> *This Shabad is by Bhagat Sheikh Fareed Ji in Salok Fareed Jee on Pannaa 1383
> *
> 
> 
> ...



Amrit Vela, the most powerful time for Simran/ Meditation.

I recently tried out a meditation class and to my amusement, a participant in the class described in detail the very same vision that I experience  regularly, right down to a T.

It was a massive vision so the explanation wasnt short. I sat waiting for him to differ on at least one of the many details, but everything was perfectly and correctly described.

He described the Mansarovar.

I had never seen this guy previously and had never shared my vision to anyone remotely connected with the class. He was oriental and not Sikh, probably never heard of Sikhi in his life like most people where I live.

It was a reminder from Maharaj, of the Glory of Sat. Truth is One, He Is beyond Religion, race, caste and creed, and He exists in each and every heart, in the angel and demon, slanderer and saint.


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## chazSingh (Sep 11, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> Amrit Vela, the most powerful time for Simran/ Meditation.
> 
> I recently tried out a meditation class and to my amusement, a participant in the class described in detail the very same vision that I experience  regularly, right down to a T.
> 
> ...




Happy that you are trying out meditation 
If we are interested and make the effort, then Waheguru will surely start to reveal things to us...


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## Sikhilove (Sep 13, 2017)

chazSingh said:


> Happy that you are trying out meditation
> If we are interested and make the effort, then Waheguru will surely start to reveal things to us...



Lol I've been meditating for years. I used to go into Sunn samadhi on a regular basis. 

I tried the class to see the way the teacher does it. A friend of mine owns the fitness company and told me to go along to it. 

It's so nice to see others, not just brown people practicing truth, it shows that Truth is beyond race religion and social classes.


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## chazSingh (Sep 14, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> Lol I've been meditating for years. I used to go into Sunn samadhi on a regular basis.
> 
> I tried the class to see the way the teacher does it. A friend of mine owns the fitness company and told me to go along to it.
> 
> It's so nice to see others, not just brown people practicing truth, it shows that Truth is beyond race religion and social classes.



you say 'used to' ... why no longer?

There was a time when i read a lot about meditation techniques...watched videos on the subject, researched online...etc etc...

although it was good, and worthwhile as it kept my mind on 'seeking' ... in the end i realized i just needed to reduce the number of distractions hence why Amrit Vela was perfect...no sounds, dark room, no distractions... just you...then i poured my heart out...i've learnt more about myself...life...during these nightly hours than at any other time....


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 14, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> Lol I've been meditating for years. I used to go into Sunn samadhi on a regular basis.
> 
> I tried the class to see the way the teacher does it. A friend of mine owns the fitness company and told me to go along to it.
> 
> It's so nice to see others, not just brown people practicing truth, it shows that Truth is beyond race religion and social classes.


Lol I never meditate. I only try to introspect and truthfully admit mistakes done and try to mend. For me this is meditation and truthfully bhagti. I am most of the time in sehj.


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 16, 2017)

japjisahib04 said:


> Lol I never meditate. I only try to introspect and truthfully admit mistakes done and try to mend. For me this is meditation and truthfully bhagti. I am most of the time in sehj.


 
Sahni Sahib,
Guru Fateh.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. The plague of this kind of meditation where one parrots -Lady Gaga or any other word endlessly started with Maharishi, the Beatles Guru and spread like a wildfire. The rest is history. One can feel the transitory trance by repeating any word but let's be honest here, this has nothing to do with Gurmat values. All 1429/30 pages of SGGS is meditation.

Thanks for the reminder.

Tejwant Singh


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## Sikhilove (Sep 17, 2017)

chazSingh said:


> you say 'used to' ... why no longer?
> 
> There was a time when i read a lot about meditation techniques...watched videos on the subject, researched online...etc etc...
> 
> although it was good, and worthwhile as it kept my mind on 'seeking' ... in the end i realized i just needed to reduce the number of distractions hence why Amrit Vela was perfect...no sounds, dark room, no distractions... just you...then i poured my heart out...i've learnt more about myself...life...during these nightly hours than at any other time....



 I still go into Sunn samadhi at Amrit vela, before I used to mediate in the day and go into it also. 

The truth is, that were really always in samadhi, the world is a dream and life is a test. Going deeper, we reach back into the first world, our true origin.

Bandgi, doing good deeds, being a truly good soul is great meditation within itself.


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## Sikhilove (Sep 17, 2017)

japjisahib04 said:


> Lol I never meditate. I only try to introspect and truthfully admit mistakes done and try to mend. For me this is meditation and truthfully bhagti. I am most of the time in sehj.



True, like the First King taught, Truth is high but higher still is Truthful living.

Meditation at Amrit vela is divine which is why he taught us to do it.

We learn things in meditation and bring those lessons into our daily lives.


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 18, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> Meditation at Amrit vela is divine which is why he taught us to do it. We learn things in meditation and bring those lessons into our daily lives.


 Can you please guide me where in gurbani we have been instructed to do meditation at Amrit vela or other time. And what do you mean by meditation.


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## Ishna (Sep 19, 2017)

Tuhi, tuhi...........


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## Sikhilove (Sep 19, 2017)

ācẖā sāhib sācẖ nā▫e bẖākẖi▫ā bẖā▫o apār. 
True is the Master, True is His Name-speak it with infinite love. 

ਆਖਹਿ ਮੰਗਹਿ ਦੇਹਿ ਦੇਹਿ ਦਾਤਿ ਕਰੇ ਦਾਤਾਰੁ ॥ 
आखहि मंगहि देहि देहि दाति करे दातारु ॥ 
Ākẖahi mangahi ḏehi ḏehi ḏāṯ kare ḏāṯār. 
People beg and pray, "Give to us, give to us", and the Great Giver gives His Gifts. 

ਫੇਰਿ ਕਿ ਅਗੈ ਰਖੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਦਿਸੈ ਦਰਬਾਰੁ ॥ 
फेरि कि अगै रखीऐ जितु दिसै दरबारु ॥ 
Fer kė agai rakẖī▫ai jiṯ ḏisai ḏarbār. 
So what offering can we place before Him, by which we might see the Darbaar of His Court? 

ਮੁਹੌ ਕਿ ਬੋਲਣੁ ਬੋਲੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਸੁਣਿ ਧਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥ 
मुहौ कि बोलणु बोलीऐ जितु सुणि धरे पिआरु ॥ 
Muhou kė bolaṇ bolī▫ai jiṯ suṇ ḏẖare pi▫ār. 
What words can we speak to evoke His Love? 

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲਾ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਉ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ 
अम्रित वेला सचु नाउ वडिआई वीचारु ॥ 
Amriṯ velā sacẖ nā▫o vadi▫ā▫ī vīcẖār. 
In the Amrit Vaylaa, the ambrosial hours before dawn, chant the True Name, and contemplate His Glorious Greatness. 

ਕਰਮੀ ਆਵੈ ਕਪੜਾ ਨਦਰੀ ਮੋਖੁ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥ 
करमी आवै कपड़ा नदरी मोखु दुआरु ॥ 
Karmī āvai kapṛā naḏrī mokẖ ḏu▫ār. 
By the karma of past actions, the robe of this physical body is obtained. By His Grace, the Gate of Liberation is found. 

ਨਾਨਕ ਏਵੈ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਸਭੁ ਆਪੇ ਸਚਿਆਰੁ ॥੪॥ 
नानक एवै जाणीऐ सभु आपे सचिआरु ॥४॥ 
Nānak evai jāṇī▫ai sabẖ āpe sacẖiār. ||4|| 
O Nanak, know this well: the True One Himself is All. ||4|| 

Read Guru Granth Sahib Ji! 

It's there to be Read and Applied, not just bowed down to every so often.

The Gyan is Guru, how can u bow down to the Gyan(Guru) if u dont even know what it is..


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 19, 2017)

Sikhilove ji,

Guru fateh.

"Read Guru Granth Sahib Ji! 

It's there to be Read and Applied, not just bowed down to every so often.

The Gyan is Guru, how can u bow down to the Gyan(Guru) if u dont even know what it is.."

Pardon my ignorance, but I have no idea what you mean and please try not to undermine our seekers by
concluding on your own as if they do not know what they are talking about.
Guru Nanak taught us to be conversationalists. Let's adhere to his vision.
Please elaborate your thought so we can all learn from it.

Thanks & regards
Tejwant Singh


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## Sikhilove (Sep 19, 2017)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Sikhilove ji,
> 
> Guru fateh.
> 
> ...



My post speaks for itself. On the first few pages on Gurbani it instructs us to wake up at Amrit vela and to meditate on Naam/ Truth.

How can one claim to be a Sikh of the Guru if they can't read the first few pages of His teachings?

Not even the whole Granth, but at Least the first few pages..

Unless JapjiSahibJi is a new learner, in which case it's understandable & I must apologise.


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 19, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> My post speaks for itself. On the first few pages on Gurbani it instructs us to wake up at Amrit vela and to meditate on Naam/ Truth.
> 
> How can one claim to be a Sikh of the Guru if they can't read the first few pages of His teachings?
> 
> Not even the whole Granth, but at Least the first few pages..



Sikhilove ji,

Guru Fateh.

If your post spoke for itself, then there would be no reason to ask you then.

Let me simplify it for you. Which Vela-Time is not for Amrit- Guru Shabad then.

Are you trying to claim that the sevadaars in Bangladesh who are helping the refugees only do seva in the early hours in the morning because they are practising Sach Naam 24/7?
What is the discrepancy here?


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## Sikhilove (Sep 19, 2017)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Sikhilove ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> ...



Youre right, Truth Practice is 24/7, we are in constant Samadhi and one hole of doubt in practice is detrimental to staying on the path.

However, Amrit Vela is the most powerful time to go into deep meditation. The Gurus did it, Saints from the past and present do it.

What u can learn in deeper meditation is divine. Try it and see.


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 19, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> Youre right, Truth Practice is 24/7, we are in constant Samadhi and one hole of doubt in practice is detrimental to staying on the path.
> 
> However, Amrit Vela is the most powerful time to go into deep meditation. The Gurus did it, Saints from the past and present do it.
> 
> What u can learn in deeper meditation is divine. Try it and see.



Please respond to my question in a specific manner as asked. Which Vela is not for Amrit? Thanks.


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 20, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> I still go into Sunn samadhi at Amrit vela, before I used to mediate in the day and go into it also.


Guru Nanak very well knew that mind cannot be silenced thus it is total waste of time to think of 'sunn' state.  Different rituals were being performed to silence the manh in a futile manner, thus gurbani guides us let your mind keep on chattering but be it divinely inspired i.e. uthat baithat sovait jagat and achieve eternal stablity.


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## Original (Sep 20, 2017)

japjisahib04 said:


> Guru Nanak very well knew that mind cannot be silenced thus it is total waste of time to think of 'sunn' state.  Different rituals were being performed to silence the manh in a futile manner, thus gurbani guides us let your mind keep on chattering but be it divinely inspired i.e. uthat baithat sovait jagat and achieve eternal stablity.



Sir,

You're absolutely right ! Guru Nanak knew that if a *wandering* mind was all too difficult to silence then a *focused* mind was worth struggling for and hence the reason "nam simran", a Sikh doctrine was developed. Early hours of the morning is not only recommended but practiced universally. Sadly, you wouldn't know the *benefits* coz you too busy making *profits,* hey !

Sikhilove hinted that you should switch from making profits to accruing benefits through regular meditation. Gora folks have gone bliss ticks over meditation, they've found what you've lost.

Meditation in the West is hailed as a panacea for many ills. It is taught worldwide as a cure  for emotional distress and a recipe for happiness. Guru Nanak on page 1329, SGGSJ qualifies early morning meditation [amrit vela] as a must:

...give up love of the world n devote thyself to meditation on shabd at ambrosial hour [*ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੈ*]

*ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ ........... ਨਾਉ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਛੋਡਹੁ ਦੁਨੀ ਪਰੀਤਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਣਵਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸਨਿ ਦਾਸਾ ਜਗਿ ਹਾਰਿਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਜੀਤਾ ॥੪॥੯॥ [SGGSJ,1329].
*
Goodnight
*
*


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 20, 2017)

Original said:


> Sir,
> 
> You're absolutely right ! Guru Nanak knew that if a wandering mind was all too difficult to silence then a focused mind was worth struggling for and hence the reason "nam simran", a Sikh doctrine was developed. Early hours of the morning is not only recommended but practiced universally. Sadly, you wouldn't know the benefits coz you too busy making profits, hey !
> 
> ...



Original ji,

Guru fateh,

Firstly, I have always enjoyed your allegorical oratory whether it makes sense or not, case in point, this very one.



> ...give up love of the world n devote thyself to meditation on shabd at ambrosial hour [*ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੈ*]



Please post the whole Shabad with your own understanding as is required here so we can all learn from your Sikhi wisdom.Thanks.

We may disagree upon your translation of the one-liner, "*ਨਾਉ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਛੋਡਹੁ ਦੁਨੀ ਪਰੀਤਾ ", *but I get it, maybe not.
Yes, [*ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੈ*] does mean early hours in the morning and that's all where it begins and end.

There is nothing called meditation in Sikhi. More importantly, the subject is Amritvela which is nowhere to be found in your one-liner with its misleading translation in English.
Am I missing something?

Goodnight.

Tejwant Singh


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 22, 2017)

Original said:


> Guru Nanak knew that if a *wandering* mind was all too difficult to silence then a *focused* mind was worth struggling for and hence the reason "nam simran", a Sikh doctrine was developed.


Interesting focusing mind! But where to focus on one word, murti or within ourselves where the treasure of virtues lies as guru nanak says, 'nanak likhiya naal'


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## Original (Sep 25, 2017)

japjisahib04 said:


> Interesting focusing mind! But where to focus on one word, murti or within ourselves where the treasure of virtues lies as guru nanak says, 'nanak likhiya naal'


Sir, I'm pleased the "focused mind" has taken your interest ! Gur Ghar calls this process "nam simran", where the nam is Waheguru [gurmantar, the word] and the simran is remembrance thereof. The adept is required to practice regular sessions of mindful attention, which has a calming effect on the amygdala [brain's emotion processor] and help reduce impulsive reactions to all the neg cons.

Summarised below are some of the benefits associated with regular focused mind:

1. boost altruistic behaviour
2. increase happier moods
3. cultivates enduring qualities: selflessness, equanimity and compassion
4. enables the mind to pick up subliminal msges that are otherwise hidden in the
    subconscious part of the brain
5. sharpens conscious awareness

If I may add, all this is found 'within ourselves where the treasure of virtues lies', as you've correctly quoted for once.

Much obliged !


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 25, 2017)

Original said:


> Gur Ghar calls this process "nam simran", where the nam is Waheguru [gurmantar, the word] and the simran is remembrance thereof. The adept is required to practice regular sessions of mindful attention, which has a calming effect on the amygdala [brain's emotion processor] and help reduce impulsive reactions to all the neg cons


Original Jee gurbani does not suggest to focus mind on one word rather it says, 'ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਪਰਦੇਸੀ ਵੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਆਉ ਘਰੇ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਿਲਾਵਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਘਰਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਰੇ ॥ Leave dehdhari guru and come back home and explore the treasure within by yourselves and live accordingly.' After all purpose of life is to be truthful and by focusing mind on one word we cannot be truthful to ourselves.


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## Original (Sep 26, 2017)

Sir,

Guru Gobind Singh put an end to "dehdhari" guru by conferring the same on to SGGSJ in 1708. This meant the shabd contained in SGGSJ was the Guru and there was to be no more dehdhari gurus. But up until then there was the institution "guru-chela" from the time of Baba Nanak right through until Guru Gobind Singh. Would you agree with that ?

Rgds


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 26, 2017)

Original Jee

Let me clarify since Guru Nanak says his guru was 'sabd guru surat dhun chelya' over here cheyla was his surat and guru was his inner voice and gurbani is written as descended upon them in poetic form, so its interpretation and understanding was left to individual


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## Original (Sep 27, 2017)

japjisahib04 said:


> Original Jee
> 
> Let me clarify since Guru Nanak says his guru was 'sabd guru surat dhun chelya' over here cheyla was his surat and guru was his inner voice and gurbani is written as descended upon them in poetic form, so its interpretation and understanding was left to individual


Sir

You've called Nanak, "Guru Nanak". Why ?


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 27, 2017)

Original said:


> Sir
> 
> You've called Nanak, "Guru Nanak". Why ?



Here we go again and again! @Original  with his legalese!
He flaunts this barrister side of his every time he loses an argument based on Sikhi.
This cop-out is @Original 's  second nature

I would urge him to make an attempt in using the SGGS, our only Guru, to learn the answer without asking @japjisahib04 but that would be a futile attempt on my part.

Tejwant Singh


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## Sikhilove (Sep 30, 2017)

japjisahib04 said:


> Guru Nanak very well knew that mind cannot be silenced thus it is total waste of time to think of 'sunn' state.  Different rituals were being performed to silence the manh in a futile manner, thus gurbani guides us let your mind keep on chattering but be it divinely inspired i.e. uthat baithat sovait jagat and achieve eternal stablity.



Of course u can silence the mind. 

Meditation is silencing the mind until we can just Feel within our beings.

This is where the real learning begins- away from our own mental chatter, without expectations, He Himself shows us.


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 30, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> Of course u can silence the mind.
> 
> Meditation is silencing the mind until we can just Feel within our beings.
> 
> This is where the real learning begins- away from our own mental chatter, without expectations, He Himself shows us.



Sikhilove ji,

Guru Fateh,
I have seen you and others use the word 'Meditation' quite often not only in this thread but also in many others.

Would you be kind enough to give me ONE WORD from the SGGS, our only Guru, that means 'Meditation' in Gurmukhi?

Will eagerly wait for your wisdom so I can learn from it.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh


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## Sikhilove (Sep 30, 2017)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Sikhilove ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh,
> I have seen you and others use the word 'Meditation' quite often not only in this thread but also in many others.
> ...



SIMRAN


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## Ishna (Sep 30, 2017)

I thought simran meant remembrance? As in the constant remembrance of God's singular reality and all-pervasiveness.

There is another word that might be better but it's not coming to me right now. I think it starts with "d".


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 30, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> SIMRAN



Thanks.

Please quote the whole Shabad with your own understanding where the word SIMRAN is used as Meditation. 

And, are there any other words in Gurmukhi used in the SGGS for Meditation or is it just SIMRAN?

Thanks


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## Ishna (Sep 30, 2017)

Dhiaan! That's it.


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## Sikhilove (Sep 30, 2017)

Ishna said:


> I thought simran meant remembrance? As in the constant remembrance of God's singular reality and all-pervasiveness.
> 
> There is another word that might be better but it's not coming to me right now. I think it starts with "d".



Meditation is remembrance of Truth. Remembrance of Truth purifies your mind and silences it. You go from the noise and endless infinite chatter of Maya, to the Truth of the silence which is our True origin. From Nothing/ the silence we came and to the Nothingness we go.


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## Sikhilove (Sep 30, 2017)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Please quote the whole Shabad with your own understanding where the word SIMRAN is used as Meditation.
> 
> ...



Meditating, meditating, meditating in remembrance, I have found peace.
simar simar simar sukh paa-i-aa.
On (page 202 of SGGS Guruji says


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## Ishna (Sep 30, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> Meditation is remembrance of Truth. Remembrance of Truth purifies your mind and silences it. You go from the noise and endless infinite chatter of Maya, to the Truth of the silence which is our True origin. From Nothing/ the silence we came and to the Nothingness we go.



I understand what you're saying, but humbly disagree.  A meditation technique attempting to silence the mind is useful for focussing it and helping us to think and use our minds for proper purpose.  However, simran, the constant awareness/rememberance of Naam we should attempt to cultivate 24/7.  It should become our all-pervasive attitude and belief and _modus operandi _in every moment of our lives.

Also, I think SPN's encouragement of 'full shabad' in English and Gurmukhi is still used?  Hard to tell after my absence.  At any rate, thanks for suggesting the shabad that appears on panna 202:



> ਗਉੜੀ ਮਃ ੫ ॥
> Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 5.
> Gauree, Fifth Mehl:
> 
> ...


​


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## Ishna (Sep 30, 2017)

Also, Manmohan Singh ji's translation doesn't use the word 'meditation':



> ਗਉੜੀ ਮਃ ੫ ॥
> Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 5.
> Gauri 5th Guru.
> 
> ...


​


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## Tejwant Singh (Sep 30, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> Meditating, meditating, meditating in remembrance, I have found peace.
> simar simar simar sukh paa-i-aa.
> On (page 202 of SGGS Guruji says



Sikhilove ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks.  Now I am more confused than before. I thought you would enlighten me with your understanding of the whole Shabad for my own learning, instead, you posted just one-liner of it with the page number.

One-liners are often used by some to use Gurbani as a weapon to prove one's point of the argument rather than a tool to further the interaction.

Anyway, let's  carry on. Let's amplify our understanding of this beautiful Gurbani. Please share your Gurmat wisdom.

The one line of the Shabad you posted is in *Dudki- 2 line verse form

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਜਪਉ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਮ ॥
An▫ḏin japa▫o gurū gur nām.
Night and day, I meditate on the Guru, and the Name of the Guru.

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਸਿਧਿ ਭਏ ਸਗਲ ਕਾਂਮ ॥੨॥
Ŧā ṯe siḏẖ bẖa▫e sagal kāŉm. ||2||
Thus all my works are brought to perfection. ||2||
*
In the Shabad from where you posted the one-liner, the second verse above says ਜਪਉ_*  is "meditate."
*_
*
The preceding Shabad is in Tutki - 3 line verse form. *

ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ ਬੇਦ ਬਖਾਨੇ ॥
Simriṯ sāsaṯ beḏ bakẖāne.
The merits of reciting the Simritees, the Shaastras and the Vedas,

ਜੋਗ ਗਿਆਨ ਸਿਧ ਸੁਖ ਜਾਨੇ ॥
Jog gi▫ān siḏẖ sukẖ jāne.
knowledge of the science of Yoga, spiritual wisdom and the pleasure of miraculous spiritual powers -

ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਤ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸਿਉ ਮਨ ਮਾਨੇ ॥੩॥
Nām japaṯ parabẖ si▫o man māne. ||3||
these come by surrendering the mind and meditating on the Name of God. ||3||


In the above, _*ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ*_  is the same root word _*SIMRAN*_ is translated as _*The merits of reciting
*_
*But the same Tutki- 3 line verse above,* *ਜਪਤ -japaṯ is used as Meditating.
*
So, let me ask you again what is *Meditation* as per SGGS?

Why are many words in the SGGS, our only Guru translated into one single word *Meditation* in Engish?

Thanks



ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 5.
Gauree, Fifth Mehl:

ਕੋਟਿ ਮਜਨ ਕੀਨੋ ਇਸਨਾਨ ॥
Kot majan kīno isnān.
The merits of taking millions of ceremonial cleansing baths,

ਲਾਖ ਅਰਬ ਖਰਬ ਦੀਨੋ ਦਾਨੁ ॥
Lākẖ arab kẖarab ḏīno ḏān.
the giving of hundreds of thousands, billions and trillions in charity -

ਜਾ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਓ ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ॥੧॥
Jā man vasi▫o har ko nām. ||1||
these are obtained by those whose minds are filled with the Name of the Lord. ||1||

ਸਗਲ ਪਵਿਤ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਇ ਗੁਪਾਲ ॥
Sagal paviṯ gun gā▫e gupāl.
Those who sing the Glories of the Lord of the World are totally pure.

ਪਾਪ ਮਿਟਹਿ ਸਾਧੂ ਸਰਨਿ ਦਇਆਲ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Pāp mitėh sāḏẖū saran ḏa▫i▫āl. Rahā▫o.
Their sins are erased, in the Sanctuary of the Kind and Holy Saints. ||Pause||

ਬਹੁਤੁ ਉਰਧ ਤਪ ਸਾਧਨ ਸਾਧੇ ॥
Bahuṯ uraḏẖ ṯap sāḏẖan sāḏẖe.
The merits of performing all sorts of austere acts of penance and self-discipline,

ਅਨਿਕ ਲਾਭ ਮਨੋਰਥ ਲਾਧੇ ॥
Anik lābẖ manorath lāḏẖe.
earning huge profits and seeing one's desires fulfilled -

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਰਸਨ ਆਰਾਧੇ ॥੨॥
Har har nām rasan ārāḏẖe. ||2||
these are obtained by chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, with the tongue. ||2||

ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ ਬੇਦ ਬਖਾਨੇ ॥
*Simriṯ sāsaṯ beḏ bakẖāne. 
The merits of reciting the Simritees, the Shaastras and the Vedas, *

ਜੋਗ ਗਿਆਨ ਸਿਧ ਸੁਖ ਜਾਨੇ ॥
*Jog gi▫ān siḏẖ sukẖ jāne. 
knowledge of the science of Yoga, spiritual wisdom and the pleasure of miraculous spiritual powers - *

ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਤ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸਿਉ ਮਨ ਮਾਨੇ ॥੩॥
*Nām japaṯ parabẖ si▫o man māne. ||3|| 
these come by surrendering the mind and meditating on the Name of God. ||3|| *

ਅਗਾਧਿ ਬੋਧਿ ਹਰਿ ਅਗਮ ਅਪਾਰੇ ॥
Agāḏẖ boḏẖ har agam apāre.
The wisdom of the Inaccessible and Infinite Lord is incomprehensible.

ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਿਦੇ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ॥
Nām japaṯ nām riḏe bīcẖāre.
Meditating on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and contemplating the Naam within our hearts,

ਨਾਨਕ ਕਉ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰੇ ॥੪॥੧੧੧॥
Nānak ka▫o parabẖ kirpā ḏẖāre. ||4||111||
O Nanak, God has showered His Mercy upon us. ||4||111||




ਗਉੜੀ ਮਃ ੫ ॥
Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 5.
Gauree, Fifth Mehl:

ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
*Simar simar simar sukẖ pā▫i▫ā. 
Meditating, meditating, meditating in remembrance, I have found peace. *

ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲ ਗੁਰ ਰਿਦੈ ਬਸਾਇਆ ॥੧॥
*Cẖaran kamal gur riḏai basā▫i▫ā. ||1|| 
I have enshrined the Lotus Feet of the Guru within my heart. ||1|| *

ਗੁਰ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪੂਰਾ ॥
Gur gobinḏ pārbarahm pūrā.
The Guru, the Lord of the Universe, the Supreme Lord God, is perfect.

ਤਿਸਹਿ ਅਰਾਧਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਧੀਰਾ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Ŧisėh arāḏẖ merā man ḏẖīrā. Rahā▫o.
Worshipping Him, my mind has found a lasting peace. ||Pause||

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਜਪਉ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਮ ॥
An▫ḏin japa▫o gurū gur nām.
Night and day, I meditate on the Guru, and the Name of the Guru.

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਸਿਧਿ ਭਏ ਸਗਲ ਕਾਂਮ ॥੨॥
Ŧā ṯe siḏẖ bẖa▫e sagal kāŉm. ||2||
Thus all my works are brought to perfection. ||2||

ਦਰਸਨ ਦੇਖਿ ਸੀਤਲ ਮਨ ਭਏ ॥
Ḏarsan ḏekẖ sīṯal man bẖa▫e.
Beholding the Blessed Vision of His Darshan, my mind has become cool and tranquil,

ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਕੇ ਕਿਲਬਿਖ ਗਏ ॥੩॥
Janam janam ke kilbikẖ ga▫e. ||3||
and the sinful mistakes of countless incarnations have been washed away. ||3||

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਹਾ ਭੈ ਭਾਈ ॥
Kaho Nānak kahā bẖai bẖā▫ī.
Says Nanak, where is fear now, O Siblings of Destiny?

ਅਪਨੇ ਸੇਵਕ ਕੀ ਆਪਿ ਪੈਜ ਰਖਾਈ ॥੪॥੧੧੨॥
Apne sevak kī āp paij rakẖā▫ī. ||4||112||
The Guru Himself has preserved the honor of His servant. ||4||112||


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## japjisahib04 (Sep 30, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> Of course u can silence the mind. Meditation is silencing the mind until we can just Feel within our beings.This is where the real learning begins- away from our own mental chatter, without expectations, He Himself shows us.


 I wonder what do you mean that manh can be silenced when gurbani says, 'chupai chup n hovie jai lai rahan live tar - even if meditate continuously,  I cannot get rid of vices.  Gurbani is not referring to fake or unnatural silencing of manh but eternal stability - see the sabd down: 
' ਤੈ ਨਰ ਕਿਆ ਪੁਰਾਨੁ ਸੁਨਿ ਕੀਨਾ ॥ ਅਨਪਾਵਨੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਉਪਜੀ ਭੂਖੈ ਦਾਨੁ ਨ ਦੀਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥  ਕਾਮੁ ਨ ਬਿਸਰਿਓ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਨ ਬਿਸਰਿਓ ਲੋਭੁ ਨ ਛੂਟਿਓ ਦੇਵਾ ॥ ਪਰ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਮੁਖ ਤੇ ਨਹੀ ਛੂਟੀ ਨਿਫਲ ਭਈ ਸਭ ਸੇਵਾ ॥੧॥  sggs 1253.5


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## Sikhilove (Oct 1, 2017)

Ishna said:


> Also, Manmohan Singh ji's translation doesn't use the word 'meditation':
> 
> 
> ​



Later down in the passage u posted it says meditate,connecting with the first few lines, remembering and meditating here mean the same thing.

 Of course it should be practiced 24/7. The benefits of Amrit Vela should be experienced rather than arguing over it. 

U can bicker over language which Is limited, or you can just Do it.


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## Sikhilove (Oct 1, 2017)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Sikhilove ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> ...



Lol i dont understand why youre asking what you're asking. There are many words used to describe alot of things.

E.g., Eating: satisfying hunger, ingesting food, Walking: going for a stroll, Running: sprinting, Laughing: chuckling, Sleeping: resting, taking a nap, the list goes on. 

Who cares about limited language, we all know what people are trying to say.


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## Sikhilove (Oct 1, 2017)

japjisahib04 said:


> I wonder what do you mean that manh can be silenced when gurbani says, 'chupai chup n hovie jai lai rahan live tar - even if meditate continuously,  I cannot get rid of vices.  Gurbani is not referring to fake or unnatural silencing of manh but eternal stability - see the sabd down:
> ' ਤੈ ਨਰ ਕਿਆ ਪੁਰਾਨੁ ਸੁਨਿ ਕੀਨਾ ॥ ਅਨਪਾਵਨੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਉਪਜੀ ਭੂਖੈ ਦਾਨੁ ਨ ਦੀਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥  ਕਾਮੁ ਨ ਬਿਸਰਿਓ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਨ ਬਿਸਰਿਓ ਲੋਭੁ ਨ ਛੂਟਿਓ ਦੇਵਾ ॥ ਪਰ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਮੁਖ ਤੇ ਨਹੀ ਛੂਟੀ ਨਿਫਲ ਭਈ ਸਭ ਸੇਵਾ ॥੧॥  sggs 1253.5



Yeah, you need to do bandgi also, and remember Truth principles. Hence we meditate on and contemplate the Truth taught to us in Gurbani.


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 1, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> Lol i dont understand why youre asking what you're asking. There are many words used to describe alot of things.
> 
> E.g., Eating: satisfying hunger, ingesting food, Walking: going for a stroll, Running: sprinting, Laughing: chuckling, Sleeping: resting, taking a nap, the list goes on.
> 
> Who cares about limited language, we all know what people are trying to say.





> E.g., Eating: satisfying hunger, ingesting food, Walking: going for a stroll, Running: sprinting, Laughing: chuckling, Sleeping: resting, taking a nap, the list goes on.



Do all the above stand for the word meditation?


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## Sikhilove (Oct 1, 2017)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Do all the above stand for the word meditation?



What do you think. This is a waste of time.


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 1, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> What do you think. This is a waste of time.



Why would you give up so easily? Is it because you are not able to define the equivalent Gurmukhi words in the SGGS that you use in English, meditate in this case as an example?



> There are many words used to describe alot of things.



I agree. Our visionary Gurus were wordsmiths. 
Here is just one minute example of their wordsmithery-
ਸੰਖ-100's of thousands
ਅਸੰਖ-Infinite

It would be foolish on our part to disregard their talent. This shows more about our own parochial mindedness which is a pole apart from the very definition of a Sikh I am afraid.


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## Original (Oct 1, 2017)

Sikhilove Ji

*"...truth will set you free"* [conspiracy theory, Patrick Stewart].

Not everyone can understand Nanak's truth* [satnam]*, including me. I'm still a baby Sikh.

If Satnam was that simple and readily available to the entire human population then the term* "fool"* [ਮੂਰਖੁ, SGGSJ, 953] wouldn't have been appropriated by Gur Ghar, would it ? But because all humans are not equal in their spiritual and intellectual make, the use of the term fool was necessary to capture this deficiency. The third master qualifies the same metaphorically on page 644, SGGSJ: *"ਘਰ ਹੀ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਭਰਪੂਰੁ ਹੈ ਮਨਮੁਖਾ ਸਾਦੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ ਜਿਉ ਕਸਤੂਰੀ ਮਿਰਗੁ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ਭ੍ਰਮਦਾ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਇਆ ॥ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਤਜਿ ਬਿਖੁ ਸੰਗ੍ਰਹੈ ਕਰਤੈ ਆਪਿ ਖੁਆਇਆ" [colour:* translation - God made them that way, that is to say, god made them fools*].*

Sikhilove Ji, much has already been said [post #33] and a lot more will be said, but first, a response from my learned friend, Japjisahib Ji re post #40 is awaited !

Speak soon !

TC


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## japjisahib04 (Oct 1, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> Yeah, you need to do bandgi also, and remember Truth principles. Hence we meditate on and contemplate the Truth taught to us in Gurban


 There is a difference between bandhghi and parroting and guru sahib have totally dismissed parroting by saying, ' har har karat nit kapat kamaveh hirda shud n hovie - by parroting one cannot be truthful. what is bhagti i.e. vin gun keetai bhagat n hoey without imbibing the divine trait process of transformation cannot begin if not living with godly traits then it is not bhagti, thus once we start living with divine trait this is automatically bhagti. To see God in all is real puja. To raise voice against injustice is bhagti. To abandon your shortcomings is real puja.   Gurbani tells us, ''tan manh dhan arpeu(I tender my thought process  which was impure/malafide and as such I used to live disturbed life forever) tissai prabh milaveh mohe' SGGS.256.18.  Someone may pose a question if one does not have the 'dhan' then what shall he do. The 'dhan' over here is not being referred to material wealth but your inbuilt belief, our thought process which you consider as your capital or raas that is dhan.


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## Ishna (Oct 1, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> Later down in the passage u posted it says meditate,connecting with the first few lines, remembering and meditating here mean the same thing.
> 
> Of course it should be practiced 24/7. The benefits of Amrit Vela should be experienced rather than arguing over it.
> 
> U can bicker over language which Is limited, or you can just Do it.



I'm not trying to bicker and it's disappointing that you see it this way.  I'll cease and desist trying to talk about this here.


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## Original (Oct 1, 2017)

Ishna said:


> Also, Manmohan Singh ji's translation doesn't use the word 'meditation':





Ishna said:


> Also, Manmohan Singh ji's translation doesn't use the word 'meditation':


..just as you've spelt his name incorrectly [Manmohan instead of Mohinder], so too, has Japjisahib a habit of misinterpreting Gurbani correctly ! And hence the reason you don't see the word 'meditation' acknowledged anywhere.
*
Look here -*



japjisahib04 said:


> Original Jee gurbani does not suggest to focus mind on one word rather it says,* 'ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਪਰਦੇਸੀ ਵੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਆਉ ਘਰੇ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਿਲਾਵਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਘਰਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਰੇ* ॥ Leave dehdhari guru and come back home and explore the treasure within by yourselves and live accordingly.' After all purpose of life is to be truthful and by focusing mind on one word we cannot be truthful to ourselves.



Japjisahib Ji has selected the above shabd from page 451, SGGSJ [post #37]. Sorry, I shan't go into the nitty-gritty of it all, but suffice to say the least and indeed a must: where the hell did "leave dehdhari guru" came from ? No where and no way that can be said by any of the Gurus. But of course, since its an agenda item for SPN to breakaway from mainstream Sikhism of parental Punjab to foreign frontiers, hired hands like Japjisahib are recruited to that very end. No surprise !

Ishna Ji, do yourself a favour, do everyone else a favour and get a translation of the above shabd from any learned soul and see if the words "leave dehdhari guru" can be had. Bet you me, you won't. However, for the sake of the argument, let's say Japjisahib have like you above, erred. Even then it doesn't stack up because the author of the above shabd, Guru Ramdas, couldn't have possibly made that statement [leave dehdhari guru] because it'd fly in the face of Him anointing the next dehdhari guru, Guru Arjun Dev Ji. Do you see ?

All is not doom n gloom - there is credit on part Japjisahib for importing the above shabd. Unwittingly, he has supplied the perfect tool to hammer home the message meditation a must.

*Look here* - [colour]

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਪਰਦੇਸੀ ਵੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਆਉ ਘਰੇ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਿਲਾਵਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਘਰਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਰੇ ॥ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਲੀਆ ਮਾਣਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰੇ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤੁਠਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਮੇਲੇ ਹਰੇ ॥੧॥ [SGGSJ, 451 - translation: god is within].

And since God is within and God is non physical, meeting with such a God can only be had via non physical means. One must naturally use non physical means of travelling to visit God in these metaphysical regions, meaning, meditation. The art of meditation is the non physical machinery, or for the better want of the word, "focused mind" used as a vehicle to make contact with the God within. For how else can something that is non physical [God] be realised by something that is physical ?

So yes, it's good to have people like Japjisahib on board to misinterpret Gurbani to allow punters like me to spice it up "desi style" - the true Nanak Sikhism.

Speak soon !


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 1, 2017)

Original said:


> ..just as you've spelt his name incorrectly [Manmohan instead of Mohinder], so too, has Japjisahib a habit of misinterpreting Gurbani correctly ! And hence the reason you don't see the word 'meditation' acknowledged anywhere.
> *
> Look here -*
> 
> ...


Oh my!
What are we on to scribble this unintelligent babble?
The stuff must be a lot more potent and hallucinating than the masala cha for sure.


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 1, 2017)

Original said:


> Sikhilove Ji
> 
> *"...truth will set you free"* [conspiracy theory, Patrick Stewart].
> 
> ...



Finally!

Thanks for your self-reflection and candour.

We all need to clean our inner septic tanks quite often and you have done a great job in cleaning yours.


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## japjisahib04 (Oct 1, 2017)

Original said:


> However, for the sake of the argument, let's say Japjisahib have like you above, erred. Even then it doesn't stack up because the author of the above shabd, Guru Ramdas, couldn't have possibly made that statement [leave dehdhari guru] because it'd fly in the face of Him anointing the next dehdhari guru, Guru Arjun Dev Ji. Do you see ?All is not doom n gloom - there is credit on part Japjisahib for importing the above shabd. Unwittingly, he has supplied the perfect tool to hammer home the message meditation a must.


Original Jee Thank you for uttering my name five times in a post. Hope this was not part of meditation though I can see your love for Gurmit Ram Rahim Singh. Good luck to you alongwith honeypreet. She is fat little bit, but very sweet. 

My only fault is that I try to present the essence of gurbani and in that exercise I had to use the outside subjective dehdhari guru term. Please see the context in which he is telling to his own manh to explore the treasure within and not look outside for subjective understanding.


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 1, 2017)

japjisahib04 said:


> Original Jee Thank you for uttering my name five times in a post. Hope this was not part of meditation though I can see your love for Gurmit Ram Rahim Singh. Good luck to you alongwith honeypreet. She is fat little bit, but very sweet.
> 
> My only fault is that I try to present the essence of gurbani and in that exercise I had to use the outside subjective dehdhari guru term. Please see the context in which he is telling to his own manh to explore the treasure within and not look outside for subjective understanding.



Sahni Sahib,

Guru Fateh,

Thanks so much for your succulently precise and very thoughtful response to the parrots of the babble who have been trying their utmost in a purposeful  manner to not grasp the nuances of our visionary Gurus' message.

Filled with gratitude.

Tejwant Singh 

PS- I had no idea that you were being paid by the SPN for your Seva. If that's the case, I want my share too.


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## Sikhilove (Oct 1, 2017)

Original said:


> Sikhilove Ji
> 
> *"...truth will set you free"* [conspiracy theory, Patrick Stewart].
> 
> ...



Lol fair enough. Yeh we are fools. We're beggers @ His door, for what can we ourselves actually do. Were all baby Sikhs, and we never stop learning n discovering.

The discoveries are infinite but the perfection of the heart is within reach.


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## Sikhilove (Oct 1, 2017)

Ishna said:


> I'm not trying to bicker and it's disappointing that you see it this way.  I'll cease and desist trying to talk about this here.



I wasn't speaking about you personally.

There used to be a post about fools who wrangle over meat on this forum. I read it years ago, it went in for years. The same could occur with this topic.

I see that Gurbani isn't easy to decipher for many but if you stop for a moment and truly look to the Guru within (God), all of the answers are there.

My entire family and friendship group was deviod of Sikhs growing up. No-one read Gurbani and I embarked upon the path Alone while everyone around me was busy getting wasted, engaging In rubbish, slandering and gossiping about others, competing with each other etc (Not much has changed.)

I read Guru Granth Sahib Ji. And I sat and meditated,(contemplated on and connected with, learned about, relaxing and feeling peace) on God within. Sometimes I spent hours doing it. I did it while walking, sitting, working, talking.

I learned so much and learned to trust myself, even when everyone was trying to break me, I looked to my Inner Guru, to my Father and sought solace.

Meditating is a vast term, it can mean alot of things at once. Loving someone/ something is meditating on it, thinking about something is meditating on it, feeling something can be meditation. We are in constant samadhi/ meditation, in this show of a world, every Image we meditate on (see) and mediate on too much turning into great desire and attachment.

You can't put logic on that which Is beyond logic. You must simply experience it yourself and feel its gyan.

The reason He says He cannot be known without Love is because he wants us to surpass the Logic of the mind, the Worldly Logic and to Experience Truth. 

It's True Unconditional Love. Call it flowery or hippie or whatever, but thats what it is


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## Ishna (Oct 1, 2017)

Original said:


> ..just as you've spelt his name incorrectly [Manmohan instead of Mohinder], so too, has Japjisahib a habit of misinterpreting Gurbani correctly ! And hence the reason you don't see the word 'meditation' acknowledged anywhere.
> *
> Look here -*
> 
> ...



.... if you read my post without your antagonistic agenda blinding your vision, you would see that I was referring to Bhai Manmohan Singh Ji's translation on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and the related shabad I posted in full (something you stubbornly refuse to do after so long and despite countless requests to comply with the guidelines you agreed to when you joined) at the end of my post.

Perhaps you should do yourself, and everyone else, a favour by quitting the grumpy old man stuck on repeat routine. If we all work together as a team to change the spirit of SPN's dialogue to be about new topics with inquiring minds instead of attacking each other for the smallest thing, perhaps you wouldn't have embarrassed yourself by entirely misreading my earlier post.


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## Ishna (Oct 1, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> I wasn't speaking about you personally.
> 
> There used to be a post about fools who wrangle over meat on this forum. I read it years ago, it went in for years. The same could occur with this topic.
> 
> ...



Thank you for this excellent post!! It's great to start talking about all the different things the English word "meditation" can actually encompass.

When I was new to Sikhi a long time ago, I erroneously understood Sikh meditation in the style of sitting alone in a dark room with eyes closed chanting "Waheguru, Waheguru" to be the crux of Sikh practices.  What I came to learn after quite some time that that style of meditation is just one component of Sikh spiritual practice, and isn't even the meaty part, but is a tool for training the mind, and only works in combination with contemplation style meditation on Gurbani, on inner Guru as you kindly put it, and working meditations like seva done with presence and an active practice of remembering "tuhi tuhi", only You. The goal of all this conscious and behavioural training is to have that samaadhi connection 24/7, like you said.

I hope I'm understanding you correctly now.  I greatly appreciate you taking the time to elabourate. You've made my day!


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## Sikhilove (Oct 1, 2017)

> Thank you for this excellent post!! It's great to start talking about all the different things the English word "meditation" can actually encompass.
> 
> When I was new to Sikhi a long time ago, I erroneously understood Sikh meditation in the style of sitting alone in a dark room with eyes closed chanting "Waheguru, Waheguru" to be the crux of Sikh practices. What I came to learn after quite some time that that style of meditation is just one component of Sikh spiritual practice, and isn't even the meaty part, but is a tool for training the mind, and only works in combination with contemplation style meditation on Gurbani, on inner Guru as you kindly put it, and working meditations like seva done with presence and an active practice of remembering "tuhi tuhi", only You. The goal of all this conscious and behavioural training is to have that samaadhi connection 24/7, like you said.
> 
> I hope I'm understanding you correctly now. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to elabourate. You've made my day!



Lol great!

First rule is to never lie, not even a white lie. And the laws of Nirboah and Nirvair. He is All so Love All and fear Nothing and no-one.

Be spiritually accepting, some people live their lives one way, others live another.

U lose the laws of nirboah and nirvair and the bhagat is lost.

Bandgi, silencing the 5 thieves, practicing good deeds, not hurting others, not slandering others, refraining from gossip and backtabbing, Practising Truth in Action. 

The Bhagat lives Truth, speaks Truth, serves Truth, dies Truth.

All this is meditation on Sat


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## Original (Oct 1, 2017)

Ishna said:


> .... if you read my post without your antagonistic agenda blinding your vision, you would see that I was referring to Bhai Manmohan Singh Ji's translation on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and the related shabad I posted in full (something you stubbornly refuse to do after so long and despite countless requests to comply with the guidelines you agreed to when you joined) at the end of my post.
> 
> Perhaps you should do yourself, and everyone else, a favour by quitting the grumpy old man stuck on repeat routine. If we all work together as a team to change the spirit of SPN's dialogue to be about new topics with inquiring minds instead of attacking each other for the smallest thing, perhaps you wouldn't have embarrassed yourself by entirely misreading my earlier post.



Ishna Ji, forgive me for oversighting but how was I to know of the phantom Bhai Manmohan Singh ? Is his name mentioned anywhere in the entire thread ? If so pls show location. Accordingly, I admit I erred on account oversight. But otherwise, pls consider the quibble [showing you incorrect, above] best way forward to address anomaly at hand.

You've definitely done the full SP to grill me so [grumpy old man] well, but it was nice n civil. Coming from a young aspirant as yourself, I feel humble for there is lot of love underneath. I take it constructively and will be more mindful next time we chat.

On a positive note, I see the true Sikh in you emerging. By true Sikh I mean, interpreting ancient scriptures with the same ink with which they were written.

Goodnight


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## Sikhilove (Oct 1, 2017)

Original said:


> Ishna Ji, forgive me for oversighting but how was I to know of the phantom Bhai Manmohan Singh ? Is his name mentioned anywhere in the entire thread ? If so pls show location. Accordingly, I admit I erred on account oversight. But otherwise, pls consider the quibble [showing you incorrect, above] best way forward to address anomaly at hand.
> 
> You've definitely done the full SP to grill me so [grumpy old man] well, but it was nice n civil. Coming from a young aspirant as yourself, I feel humble for there is lot of love underneath. I take it constructively and will be more mindful next time we chat.
> 
> ...



You're cool. The first time I read one of your posts I laughed so much because you reminded me of a friend of mine (young), the best person I know. Your post was very entertaining. 

People just seem to get wound up on here at times.


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## Ishna (Oct 1, 2017)

Original said:


> Ishna Ji, forgive me for oversighting but how was I to know of the phantom Bhai Manmohan Singh ? Is his name mentioned anywhere in the entire thread ? If so pls show location. Accordingly, I admit I erred on account oversight. But otherwise, pls consider the quibble [showing you incorrect, above] best way forward to address anomaly at hand.
> 
> You've definitely done the full SP to grill me so [grumpy old man] well, but it was nice n civil. Coming from a young aspirant as yourself, I feel humble for there is lot of love underneath. I take it constructively and will be more mindful next time we chat.
> 
> ...



Please refer to my posts #50 and #51 and note the colon at the end of my sentences.  It may be because I put the shabads that came after the colon into quote boxes (to reduce clutter on the page) that you perhaps didn't see them.  I'll try to be more clear with my posts in the future to avoid misunderstandings.


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## Original (Oct 2, 2017)

Ishna said:


> Please refer to my posts #50 and #51 and note the colon at the end of my sentences.  It may be because I put the shabads that came after the colon into quote boxes (to reduce clutter on the page) that you perhaps didn't see them.  I'll try to be more clear with my posts in the future to avoid misunderstandings.


Ishna Ji - good morning !

I've just had a peep at posts 50 n 51, no third party Bhai Manmohan Singh found. Never mind - let's move fwd ! In the meantime I'll try my hand at clairvoyance so I'm better equipped to read invisible prints, hey !

Must you know, I never read translations I go directly to SGGSJ, much of which is stored in my memory bank. Yes, when n where it's absolutely necessary to read another's translation I do, but on the whole it's usually the ang that triggers my mind to recall information to the conscious part of the brain from its hidden recesses. I don't wish to sound pompous, but it's all Wahegurus grace.

Must you also know Ishna Ji, it doesn't matter what one writes provided one writes from his/her heart. That way the connection with the "absolute truth" [satnam] is never broken. It is when the mind conjures up self manufactured stuff for ulterior motives or ideals that distances the writer from the true source [mool mantar]. Hence the phraseology manmukh n gurmukh.

I, for one commend you for the connection you have with satnam. It will come to fruition soon for you're slowly ripeing.

Have a good start to the week down under - until then best of everything!

Grumpy old man


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## Ishna (Oct 2, 2017)

It's not invisible - it's right here in this thread plainly at post #51.  I've taken a screenshot and illustrated the post features so you can rest assured.

I'm not going to stop learning using the English translations when I haven't yet mastered Gurmukhi script or the language and words from multiple languages in which Gurbani is composed.  Good on you not needing such a bridge to your learning.  The rest of us slow learners will just have to go the long way around, and I'm OK with that.

And now I'll stop harping the point and let the thread get back on topic.


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 2, 2017)

Original said:


> Ishna Ji - good morning !
> 
> I've just had a peep at posts 50 n 51, no third party Bhai Manmohan Singh found. Never mind - let's move fwd ! In the meantime I'll try my hand at clairvoyance so I'm better equipped to read invisible prints, hey !
> 
> ...


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## japjisahib04 (Oct 2, 2017)

Please listen to this six minute video and see 5 crore people were blinded by this Mahapurash. Guru Nanak first condition was leave the old baggage then listen your inner voice.





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154173390722706


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## Original (Oct 2, 2017)

Ishna Ji

Thank you for the enlarged exhibit and the beautiful colour coded cosmetics used to highlight the case in point. This indeed, yields two very useful conclusions:

Age is catching up, time to call it a day with young blood and,
when reading literature from down under use of a magnifying glass and a fine-tooth comb is recommended.
Prima facie [as things appear] the word Manmohan Singh can be said to be "in the ballpark but not on base", meaning, there is sufficient evidence to corroborate both parties to the case at hand. No winners no losers, but on part the writer there is always the "good practice" parlance to leave no uncountable nouns littering around. Bring them out in the open just in case a hitch-hiker takes fancy to what's being debated.

Good day !


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## Original (Oct 2, 2017)

japjisahib04 said:


> Please listen to this six minute video and see 5 crore people were blinded by this Mahapurash. Guru Nanak first condition was leave the old baggage then listen your inner voice.


Japjisahib Ji

Thank you for the invitation to treat, but I rather give it a miss. You see as regards entertainment, I'm pretty choosey and selective. I have a "pick list". The pick list allows me to take my fancy, character in context doesn't I'm afraid, sorry. Try me in 6 months time when the UK sunshine returns, I'd be firing on all 6 then and more likely to entertain it.

Thank you n regards !


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 2, 2017)

@Original  writes,



> Prima facie [as things appear] the word Manmohan Singh can be said to be "in the ballpark but not on base", meaning, there is sufficient evidence to corroborate both parties to the case at hand. No winners no losers, but on part the writer there is always the "good practice" parlance to leave no uncountable nouns littering around.



Oh, stop it!
Why do you feel the necessity to waterboard yourself everytime you are caught with your silly shenanigans which have been happening ever since you joined SPN when you started addressing SPN members as 'Kids' till were made aware of this part of the ego of yours?


Although you project yourself as a well-read scholar of Sikhi aka Mr Know-it All, I have news for you, none of us is, hence the name Sikh which defines our learning way of life.

Why would a Sikh like you be too ashamed to apologise when you are wrong which is not rare, rather than dragging your babble endlessly?



> *Bring them out in the open just in case a hitch-hiker takes fancy to what's being debated.*



Then I would suggest to you to stop being *a hitchhiker and join the SPN Sangat.* When and if you decide that then only will you be capable of understanding what Ishna ji, Sahni Sahib and others are trying to say in this wonderful forum rather than drawing out your gun, cowboy style, as soon as you hear 'a fusi before the padh', not even realising that they are coming from your own orifice.


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## Sikhilove (Oct 2, 2017)

Tejwant Singh said:


> @Original  writes,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What exactly is going on. And does he have to agree with you for him to be SPN sangat? Being spiritually accepting is accepting that some live their lives one way and others another, some have certain beliefs and others have others.


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 2, 2017)

Sikhilove said:


> What exactly is going on. And does he have to agree with you for him to be SPN sangat? Being spiritually accepting is accepting that some live their lives one way and others another, some have certain beliefs and others have others.



Pardon my ignorance, I have no idea what your gripe is and what you are trying to say.
@Original is a big lad. He can speak on his own. No one needs a broker to speak. One should not need someone else to speak on his/her behalf. This is what Sikhi is all about, the freedom of thought

More importantly, please follow the thread. Your post makes no sense in the context perhaps you forgot to read @Original's posts where he is accusing Ishna for naught time and again.
We are all learners here.The name says it all.

If  I were you I would be open and honest to lay out my thoughts. If I am not mistaken, it was you who said and rightfully so that one shouldn't lie, not even white lies.

Regards
Tejwant Singh


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## japjisahib04 (Oct 3, 2017)

Let us not fight Tejwant Ji, people are different, they are not wrong. I was so much pained to see disturbance in the kirtan of Ranjit Singh Dhadhriawala at San Hozai. At a time I was a staunch supporter of parroting. But one fine morning I realized what am I doing.


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## Tejwant Singh (Oct 3, 2017)

japjisahib04 said:


> Let us not fight Tejwant Ji, people are different, they are not wrong. I was so much pained to see disturbance in the kirtan of Ranjit Singh Dhadhriawala at San Hozai. At a time I was a staunch supporter of parroting. But one fine morning I realized what am I doing.


I agree Sahni Sahib. People should grasp the basic idea of that with which I am trying to help, I hope it has its needed effect.
Thanks


_____________________
*Admin note*: This thread is now closed. If you have anything  to add to the topic, then please open a new thread.


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