# Lessons From God - What Happens When We Die? - Where Could We Go? - What Is Attachment & Detachment?



## amarjit singh bamrah (Feb 21, 2012)

*LESSONS FROM GOD- The Soul, Death, & Attachment & Detachment- Nov 2008*
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*.Satnaam Waheguru Sat Naam Waheguru*
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*My close friend, a fellow Pilot died in Oct 2008, I noticed that his soul a month later was still hanging around Biggin Hill Airport. *
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*This was not right, we did some prayers and asked God to allow his soul to be taken to Heaven!*
*Baba Nanak appeared and said, "Amarjit, George is not yet ready to ascend, when he is ready God will intervene and take him to Heaven."*
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*I replied, "Why not Babaji, he was one of the nicest man, he did much charity work & was full of love Why did you leave him as a lost soul?".*
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*Babaji then waved his hand and a dimension opened up and this scene was played to us :*

*We saw George's soul leaving his body and ascending*
*up the Astral plane with 2 beautiful angels in white.*
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*The Angels unfolded their wings and said, "George we have been assigned to take you to your next abode, you have passed over - you have left your mortal body".*
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*We saw George looking at the angels and we were also shown his energy attachments to all his possessions, his cars, aircraft, wife & Family. He replied "Who are you, I do not know why you have come for me I am still alive - I have not passed over Go Away!"*
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*From the earth plane suddenly came this huge cry, from his family, his possessions, his aircraft, his cars, Don't leave us George!"*
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*George said to the Angels, "How can I leave my family, my wife is waiting for me to look after her, I am booked to fly my aircraft, I have to police the streets of Croydon, polish my cars, etc . Go away can't you see I am busy go away."*
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*The Divine Angels tried twice more, then we saw them crestfallen, sad they folded their wings and said " We have to go and see the other souls, maybe we will have better luck with the next one, Today has not been good, only a few souls have ascended. Most of them have been so entrenched in their material possessions, they fail to realize they have died, their eyes do not even recognize us!"*
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*The scene faded and we were back in Biggin Hill.*
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*I asked Babaji " George was a good man, religious, he was promised that if he chose his religion, at death he would automatically go to heaven, why has this not happened ?"* 
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*Baba spoke " Amarjit, Its not automatic that one ascends to the correct astral Plane, The Angels are there to take you, however one has Free will & Attachments & Temptation, which pull you back to the lower planes. Which is why, you must practice Attachment and Detachment. Do not be too attached that when your time to Passover comes you fail to recognize this.*
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*Goerge does not realize he has died, his spirit/soul is in Limbo, he has become a Lost Soul. As a Discarnate spirit he has limitless energy, he can affect his family and still try to control them...especially when realization comes to him that he is not being noticed, in extreme cases the spirit becomes angry & a poltergeist.*
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*This is one of the main problem on the earth plane at the Moment. Too many spirits and ghosts inhabiting in people *
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*This is why the scriptures say , "Practice Attachment & Detachment" otherwise we may fail to see the angels coming to take us!*
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*Satnaam Waheguru*


*Amarjit*


*=================================================================*
*The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying: A Spiritual Classic fr...*

*The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying: A Spiritual Classic from One of the Foremost Interpreters of Tibetan Buddhism to the West: Amazon.co.uk: Sogyal ...*
*www.amazon.co.uk/Tibetan-Book-Living-Dying-Inter... - 189k - Similar pages *


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 21, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*

Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji "GOD" does not give lessons and lead you by the nose.  Creation is all that is done.  You make what you want of it.

What you expect to get out of a mix and match belief system?  Your own custom combo religion and how you possibly are going to convey what you believe in?  It is hard enough to do so within the confines of a single religion regardless of good or bad.

Just quoting books and throwing book titles around is like walking in to a bookstore religious or like section and dishing out titles.  If you have read the books perhaps summarize in your own word what you take away.  That will attract more interaction and create more learning for all.

I see you have also thrown in Radhaswamis into the mix too.  Don't eat meat or eggs and you will go to heaven or find God.  What nonsense from people whose history is based on cheating the villagers around Beas, cheating on Sikhism by using the name to start and then walking away when lands were duly transferred in title, etc.  When something grows from garbage it will have a hard time shaking the smell of garbage.  What turbaned traitors who don't allow prakash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at Dehrah Beas now that they have established and secured lands built through trickery.  It is hard to believe that people still buy or cling to such for guidance.  Such people must be pretty desparate to get some limelight as dehras are great at patting you on the back, stroking your ego, giving you nice place to stay.

I realize they don't take money from people and all the buildings and Niwas for leadership came about as a volcanic eruption and suddenly shaped itself to look like forts and buildings.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 21, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*

 ਇਕ ਦਝਹਿ ਇੱਕ ਦਬੀਅਹਿ ਇਕਨਾ ਕੁਤੇ ਖਾਹਿ॥
 ਇਕਿ ਪਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਉਸਟੀਅਹਿ ਇਕਿ ਭੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਹਸਣਿ ਪਾਹਿ॥
 ਨਾਨਕ ਏਵ ਨ ਜਾਪਈ ਕਿਥੈ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਹਿ॥
 ਸਲੋਕ ਮ: 1 ਪੰਨਾ 648--
Guru nanak ji on Page 648......"Some get eaten by dogs and wild animals (P{censored}es leave their dead to be eaten by vultures)..some are buried deep in the earth ( eaten by worms bacteria etc) some are thrown in flowing waters....OH Nanak..NO ONE KNOWS where they ALL end up Finally ...


ਹਮ ਆਦਮੀ ਹਾਂ ਇੱਕ ਦਮੀ ਮੁਹਲਤਿ ਮੁਹਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ॥
 ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬਿਨਵੈ ਤਿਸੈ ਸਰੇਵਹੁ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਜੀਅ ਪਰਾਣਾ॥
 ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਪੰਨਾ ੬੬੦— Guru nanak ji on Page 660...We humans are dependant on just ONE BREATH...if the one that went IN..doesnt come OUT..we are DEAD....IF the One that just exited..doesnt have its replacement come IN..we are DEAD...and no one knows the exact time/period this process will stop.


ਮਾਤ ਗਰਭ ਮਹਿ ਆਪਨ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਦੇ ਤਹ ਤੁਮ ਰਾਖਨਹਾਰੇ॥
 ਪਾਵਕ ਸਾਗਰ ਅਥਾਹ ਲਹਰਿ ਮਹਿ ਤਾਰਹੁ ਤਾਰਨਹਾਰੇ॥
 ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਹਲਾ 5 ਪੰਨਾ 613— Guru Arjun ji on Page 613..in the mothers womb..the EMBRYO BREATHES via his MOTHER...the moment it is Born..it starts breathing using the lungs...


ਜੈਸੇ ਜਲ ਤੇ ਬੁਦਬੁਦਾ ਉਪਜੈ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਨੀਤ॥
 ਜਗ ਰਚਨਾ ਤੈਸੇ ਰਚੀ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੁਨਿ ਮੀਤ॥
 ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੨੭— Guru teg bahadur Ji page 1427...As the BUBBLES fill up with AIR..rise above the ocean...and BURST ..releasing the AIR and returning to the WATERS..so is this WORLD....all LIFE rises as a bubble..full of air..bursts..and returns to the ocean...again and again...NO Bubble ever needs to be sent to HEAVEN/HELL...neither any bubble cmae form another world..neither does it go anywhere else...


ਘਟ ਘਟ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਜੂ ਬਸੈ ਸੰਤਨ ਕਹਿਓ ਪੁਕਾਰਿ॥
 ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਹ ਭਜੁ ਮਨਾ ਭਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਉਤਰਹਿ ਪਾਰਿ॥
 ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੨੭— Guru teg bahadur Ji Page 1427..Just as the Bubbles contain the AIR and the waters..so does each life contain the "Creator's Gunns and attributes"....and those who follow and adopt these attributes go across the ocean..

 ਤੇ ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਹੋਰ ਸਮਝਣ ਲਈ ਕਿ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਜੋਤ ਸਾਰਿਆਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਹੈ ---
 ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਪੂਰਿਆ, ਰਵਿਆ ਵਿੱਚ ਵਣਾ॥
 ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵਈ, ਕਿਤੜਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਗਣਾ॥
 ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ –ਪੰਨਾ ੧੩੩--
Guru Amardass Ji explains in such a simple way..OH Human..YOU came into EXISTENCE due to the Mixing of AIR and WATER..and YOUR EXISTENCE is WITHIN THIS EXISTENCE..ON THIS WORLD...not anywhere outside...other worlds ..other heavens ..other hells...

 ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਸੌਖੇ ਤਰੀਕੇ ਨਾਲ ਸਮਝਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਭਈ ਹਵਾ ਪਾਣੀ  ਦੇ ਸੁਮੇਲ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਹੋਂਦ ਵਿੱਚ ਆਇਆ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਏਸੇ ਹੋਂਦ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਹੀ ਤੇਰੀ ਹੋਂਦ ਸਾਕਾਰ ਹੋਈ  ਹੈ ----
 ਸਾਚੇ ਤੇ ਪਵਨਾ ਭਇਆ ਪਵਨੈ ਤੇ ਜਲੁ ਹੋਇ॥
ਜਲ ਤੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਸਾਜਿਆ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮੋਇ॥
 ਸਿਰੀ ਰਾਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਪੰਨਾ ੧੯-- Guru nanak Page 19

 ਬੰਦਿਆ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਅਸਲੇ ਦੀ ਪਹਿਛਾਣ ਹੋਣੀ ਚਾਹੀਦੀ ਸੀ ਪਰ ਤੂੰ  ਕਰਮ-ਕਾਂਡ ਦੇ ਚੱਕਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਉਲ਼ਝ ਕੇ ਰਹਿ ਗਿਆ ---  YOU have FAILED to REALISE your MOOL..your BEGINNING..your EXISTENCE....and become entangled in karam kaands rituals False beliefs of heavens and hells souls going and coming...

 ਸਾਕਤ ਨਿਰਗੁਣਿਆਰਿਆ ਆਪਣਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਪਛਾਣੁ॥
 ਰਕਤੁ ਬਿੰਦੁ ਕਾ ਇਹੁ ਤਨੋ ਅਗਨੀ ਪਾਸਿ ਪਿਰਾਣੁ॥
 ਪਵਣੈ ਕੈ ਵਸਿ ਦੇਹੁਰੀ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਸਚੁ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ॥
 ਸਿਰੀ ਰਾਗ ਮਹਲਾ 1 ਪੰਨਾ 63--

ਰਕਤੁ ਬਿੰਦੁ ਕਰਿ ਨਿੰਮਿਆ ਅਗਨਿ ਉਦਰ ਮਝਾਰਿ॥
 ਉਰਧ ਮੁਖੁ ਕੁਚੀਲ ਬਿਕਲੁ ਨਰਕਿ ਘੋਰਿ ਗੁਬਾਰਿ॥
 ਪਉੜੀ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਪੰਨਾ ੭੦੬—
 ਮਾਂ ਦੀ ਰਕਤ, ਪਿਤਾ ਦਾ ਵੀਰਜ ਤੇ ਪੇਟ ਦੀ ਅਗਨੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਐ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਤੂੰ  ਉੱਗਿਆ ਸੈਂ, ਤੇਰਾ ਮੂੰਹ ਹੇਠਾਂ ਸੀ, ਗੰਦਾ ਤੇ ਡਰਾਉਣਾ ਸੈਂ, ਇੰਜ ਲੱਗਦਾ ਸੀ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਤੂੰ ਹਨੇਰੇ  ਨਰਕ ਵਿੱਚ ਪਿਆ ਹੋਵੇਂ। ਨਵੇਂ ਸਰੀਰ ਦੀ ਹੋਂਦ ਤਿੰਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਸੁਮੇਲ ਤੋਂ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ।  Mothers EGG...Fathers Sperm...encased in the fires of the womb..you came into EXISTENCE...hnaging upside down.looking quite ugly suspended as if in dark hell....YOUR new Body came into existence due to the presence of three things..

     ਜਦੋਂ ਮਾਂ ਵੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੀ ਤੇ ਪਿਤਾ ਵੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੀ ਤਾਂ ਓਦੋਂ ਇਹ ਜੀਵ ਆਤਮਾ  ਕਿੱਥੇ ਰਹਿੰਦੀ ਸੀ? -- ਰਕਤੁ  ਬਿੰਦੁ ਕੀ ਮੜੀ ਨ ਹੋਤੀ, ਮਿਤਿ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਈ॥  When there was NO MOTHER...and NO FATHER...WHERE WERE YOU ??

ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਪਿਤਾ ਜੀ ਸਮਝਉਂਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਓਦੋਂ ਆਤਮਾ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਸਦਾ ਬਹਾਰ  ਨਿਯਮਾਵਲੀ ਭਾਵ ਹਵਾ ਦੇ ਰੂਪ ਵਿੱਚ ਰਹਿ ਰਹੀ ਸੀ –  ਨਾਭਿ ਕਮਲੁ ਅਸਥੰਭੁ ਨ ਹੋਤੋ, ਤਾ ਨਿਜ  ਘਰਿ ਬਸਤਉ ਪਵਨੁ ਅਨਰਾਗੀ॥ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਦਾ  ਵਿਕਾਸ ਹੋਇਆ ਤਿਵੇਂ ਤਿਵੇਂ ਸਰੀਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਹੋਂਦ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਆਉਂਦੀ ਗਈ। ਇਹ ਸਾਰੀ ਖੇਢ  "ਤਾ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਬਸਤਉ ਪਵਨ ਅਨਰਾਗੀ" ਭਾਵ ਪਵਨ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਨਾਲ ਹਵਾ ਵਿੱਚ ਵੱਸਦਾ  ਸੀ।  YOU WERE IN THE AIR...according to the Unbending Laws of Nature...

 ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਬਾਰ ਬਾਰ ਕਹਿ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਐ ਬੰਦੇ ਤੇਰੀ ਹੋਂਦ ਮਾਂ ਅਤੇ  ਪਿਤਾ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਹੀ ਉਤਪੰਨ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ ---
 ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਸੰਜੋਗਿ ਉਪਾਏ ਰਕਤੁ ਬਿੰਦੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਕਰੇ॥  Why is Guru Ji stressing again and again...YOU are the RESULT of the MOTHERS EGG and Fathers SPERM ??? Because the HUMAN BODY is the most vital part of this equation....

 ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਪੰਨਾ ੧੦੧੩—
 ਇਸ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਨੂੰ ਹੋਰ ਖੋਹਲਦਿਆਂ ਹੋਇਆਂ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਫਰਮਾ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ  ----
 ਮਾ ਕੀ ਰਕਤੁ ਪਿਤਾ ਬਿਦੁ ਧਾਰਾ॥
 ਮੂਰਤਿ ਸੂਰਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਆਪਾਰਾ॥
 ਜੋਤਿ ਦਾਤਿ ਜੇਤੀ ਸਭ ਤੇਰੀ ਤੂ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਭ ਠਾਈ ਹੇ॥ 4

ਰਾਗ ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਪੰਨਾ ੧੦੨੨-  Page 1022

 ਅਤੇ --
 ਬਿੰਦੁ ਰਕਤੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਸਰੀਆ॥ ਪਉਣੁ ਪਾਣੀ ਅਗਨੀ ਮਿਲਿ ਜੀਆ॥
 ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਪੰਨਾ ੧੦੨੬—  maru page 1026

  ---  ਉਸ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਹੁਕਮ ਵਿੱਚ ਹੀ) ਪਿਤਾ ਦੇ ਵੀਰਜ ਦੀ ਬੂੰਦ ਤੇ ਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਪੇਟ ਦੇ ਲਹੂ ਨੇ ਮਿਲ ਕੇ  (ਮਨੁੱਖਾ) ਸਰੀਰ ਬਣਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ ।  ਹਵਾ ਪਾਣੀ ਅੱਗ (ਆਦਿਕ ਤੱਤਾਂ ਨੇ ਮਿਲ ਕੇ ਜੀਵ ਰਚ ਦਿੱਤੇ ।
 ਮਾਂ ਦੀ ਰਕਤ ਤੇ ਪਿਤਾ ਦੇ ਬਿੰਦ ਵਿੱਚ ਜ਼ਿਉਂਦੀ ਹਰਕਤ ਹੀ ਨਵਾਂ ਸਰੀਰ ਪੈਦਾ  ਕਰ ਸਕਦੀ ਹੈ। ਜੇਹਾ ਕਿ ਫਰਮਾਣ ਹੈ ----
 ਗਰਭ ਅਗਨਿ ਮਹਿ ਜਿਨਹਿ ਉਬਾਰਿਆ॥
 ਰਕਤ ਕਿਰਮ ਮਹਿ ਨਹੀ ਸੰਘਾਰਿਆ॥
 ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਪੰਨਾ ੧੦੨੬—
 ਭਾਈ !  ਜਿਸ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੇ (ਜੀਵ ਨੂੰ) ਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਪੇਟ ਦੀ ਅੱਗ ਵਿੱਚ ਬਚਾਈ ਰੱਖਿਆ, ਜਿਸ ਨੇ ਮਾਂ ਦੀ ਰੱਤ ਦੇ  ਕਿਰਮਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ (ਜੀਵ ਨੂੰ) ਮਰਨ ਨਾਹ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਉਸ ਨੇ (ਤਦੋਂ) ਆਪਣੇ (ਨਾਮ ਦਾ) ਸਿਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਕੇ ਰੱਖਿਆ  ਕੀਤੀ ।
 ਸੋ ਇਹ ਸਮਝਿਆ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਆਤਮਾ ਕੋਈ ਬਾਹਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਭੱਜੀ ਫਿਰਦੀ ਨਾ ਹੀ ਕਿਸੇ ਅਸਮਾਨ ਤੋਂ  ਹੇਠਾਂ ਇਸ ਨੇ ਆਉਣਾ ਹੈ। ਸੰਸਾਰ ਦੀ ਬਣੀ ਹੋਈ ਕੁਰਦਤੀ ਨਿਯਮਾਵਲੀ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦੀ ਉਤਪਤੀ ਹੋ  ਰਹੀ ਹੈ। ਹਾਂ ਮਾਨਸਿਕ ਕੰਮਜ਼ੋਰੀਆਂ ਕਰਕੇ ਤੇ ਮਾਨਸਿਕ ਤਲ਼ `ਤੇ ਹੀ ਅਸੀਂ ਕਈ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਹਰ ਰੋਜ਼  ਦਿਨੇ ਰਾਤ ਭਟਕਦੇ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਾਂ।   AS and when the Air gases and waters etc came into existence..as the earth evolved and matured..so did LIFE come into EXISTENCE....and MAN is the LIFE when we are given the ability and competence to FOLLOW and ADOPT the Good qualities and attributes of the Creator for the Common Good......we DIE and are RE-BORN many many times on a Daily basis living and dying in our hankaar ego pride etc...

   <hr>


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## Harry Haller (Feb 21, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*

I do not think Amarjitji is attempting to change what death means to a Sikh, it is just another viewpoint from his perspective, which he has made quite clear is not Sikh, I feel that although we may not agree with it, there is no point arguing with it, it is just another information stream to be aware of, so we should thank him for his views and focus on what is in common with what we believe in.

Taken as a story of life experience it made interesting reading, now we need to move forward in the same way we do with anyone whose views we do not agree with, be they Muslim, Hindu or a combination of all.

Again, I do not think the man is looking for an argument, and I think he knows very well that his view is contrary to what many believe in, but its his view, and surely we can respect it without agreeing with it


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## Luckysingh (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*

Amarjit ji

 A nice interesting read. I do actually understand the message you are trying to give us.
It is somewhat difficult to explain and even so, more difficult  for many to understand.

The attachment and detachment you mention is an important factor that we don't consider.

I believe the theory of why souls or spirits linger around and have no place to go.
Even though I don't think it mentions this directly in the Guru Granth Sahib.

But I'm sure we can't learn everything from the SGGS but can learn enough. The rest is taught to us through the paths we walk our life.


Sat kartar
Lucky Singh


----------



## Harry Haller (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*



Luckysingh said:


> Amarjit ji
> 
> A nice interesting read. I do actually understand the message you are trying to give us.
> It is somewhat difficult to explain and even so, more difficult  for many to understand.
> ...



Luckyji

I am sorry to see that you have managed to prove me wrong. It is extremely interesting, no doubt, and I also understand the message, do I believe it? absolutely not! I am more than happy to give due respect to anothers thoughts, but that does not mean I have to embrace them as the missing link that the SGGS forgot to mention. 

Other more enlightened members of this forum feel the need to fight tooth and nail so that certain views are not given a platform in order that people contemplating Sikhi do not get confused or sidetracked, I feel we must respect all views, even if we do not embrace them. 

To say that we cannot learn everything from the SGGS is a gross insult, it intimates that there are large blanks that we can fill in using such theories, this is wrong, there are no souls lingering around with no place to go in Sikhism, no souls, no ghosts, goblins, spirits, nothing, and certainly no blanks, choose your path wisely my friend, or you may find yourself a jack of all trades and master of none


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## amarjit singh bamrah (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*



harry haller said:


> Luckyji
> 
> To say that we cannot learn everything from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a gross insult, it intimates that there are large blanks that we can fill in using such theories, this is wrong, there are no souls lingering around with no place to go in Sikhism, no souls, no ghosts, goblins, spirits, nothing, and certainly no blanks, choose your path wisely my friend, or you may find yourself a jack of all trades and master of none


 

*(In our Sacred Sukhmani Sahib Astpadi 10 Babaji talks of many dimensions*​
*In these dimensions are many elemental and*
*spirit creatures). <TABLE style="WIDTH: 90%; BACKGROUND: #f0f0ff" border=1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=7><TBODY><TR><TH>10 </TH><TD>ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਭੂਤ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਸੂਕਰ ਮ੍ਰਿਗਾਚ ॥ 
Ka▫ī kot bẖūṯ pareṯ sūkar marigācẖ. 
Many millions are the evil nature-spirits, ghosts, pigs and tigers.
ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਕੇ ਵਾਸੀ ॥ 
Ka▫ī kot pāṯāl ke vāsī. 
Millions upon millions are the dwellers of the under-worlds. 

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Click here: Sukhmani - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia. 

Harry ji

Satnaam Waheguru. For the last 15 years or so Babaji has  showed me many times we have other dimensions around us.

The veil between our and other dimensions is very thin.

This is why we have to be careful of our Kam Krodh Lobh Moh Hankar
as we when we give into temptation the Veil breaksdown allowing other beings to enter into our forcefield. (aura!

Amarjit
*


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*

Anyone who even remotely considers himself a Sikh (much more if Singh)....CANNOT even think that the SGGS..our GURU is "incomplete..cannot teach us everything..cannot lead us through life..is NOT suitable enough...whatever.."
That is the Grossest INSULT anyone can lay at Guru Jis Charan...Guru Ji may forgive such a thought..because after all He is all forgiving and compassionate and merciful..but a fellow Sikh/Singh cannot ever stomach such esp if it comes form another sikh/singh.
This is WHY the Bhatts wrote such poetry comparing Guru ji to the Earlier Avtaars..of Satyug, Dwaper, etc etc...because those Avtaars were less "Sampooran"...only GURU NANAK Ji is Sarab kala Sampooran..ALL COMPLETE. btw The Sikh GURU is NOT an Avtaar also.....because Gurbani REJECTS such man made titles as is clearly stated in SGGS.
I may sound Harsh..but its MY GURU thats being chided as Incomplete/not good enough for "everything" etc...and thats not acceptable to me. MY GURU SGGS is fully complete and fully capable of teaching me everything i need to know.


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## Harry Haller (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*



amarjit singh bamrah said:


> *(In our Sacred Sukhmani Sahib Astpadi 10 Babaji talks of many dimensions*​
> *In these dimensions are many elemental and*
> *spirit creatures). <TABLE style="WIDTH: 90%; BACKGROUND: #f0f0ff" border=1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=7><TBODY><TR><TH>10 </TH><TD>ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਭੂਤ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਸੂਕਰ ਮ੍ਰਿਗਾਚ ॥
> Ka▫ī kot bẖūṯ pareṯ sūkar marigācẖ.
> ...



Amarjitji

I have been a pig, snorting up copious amounts of substances, I have been a ghost, lost to the world in my own daze of what I felt was reality, and I have been a dweller of the underworld, so engrossed in maya that I lost sight of the real world.This quote from Sukhmani Sahib is being distorted to scare people with stories of ghoolies and ghosts, they do not, to my mind, confirm the existence of other worlds. 

Having said that, I say tomato, you say tomaeto, to you these may seem like different dimensions, to me they are a state of mind, each to his own

You say 
_when we give into temptation the Veil breaksdown allowing other beings to enter into our forcefield. (aura!_


I say 

When we give into temptation we distort our perception of the reality around us

tomato!


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## Luckysingh (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*



harry haller said:


> To say that we cannot learn everything from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a gross insult, it intimates that there are large blanks that we can fill in using such theories, this is wrong,


 
I was talking in a literal sense. I didn't learn E=mc2 directly from the Guru Granth Sahib, but from following Einstein's work.( who was by all means given his ability with the blessings of the creator)
What I stated was that the other things we learn to condition ourselves in our own distinct paths of life come to us in the directions that we take our steps. Just like a kid learns to ride a bike or learn to swim.

Everything we need to learn about life including its purpose is all there in the ultimate *guide* left to us 'the SGGS', which I did state is 'enough'. But all the rest, the practical things, including as kids-how we learnt to eat, drink, urinate etc etc.. is all handed to us as we proceed in our paths.
 Of course, this is all in order of the creator for our welfare and well being.
The origins and foundations to everything, always trace back to the infinite creator.

Lets try to not go off track here dissecting each others dialogue.
But, focus on the title and the original subject the post is about.


Sat kartar
Lucky Singh


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## Harry Haller (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*

_Lets try to not go off track here dissecting each others dialogue.
But, focus on the title and the original subject the post is about._


that would be a first lol


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## Luckysingh (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*

Amarjit ji

I say yet again, I do understand what you are trying to say in the original post.
It is in your own style of writing and all of us each have our own  different styles.

I think that after getting into the swing or wavelength of the others style it becomes easier to get their message.
Maybe its just me? I'm not sure, although if I don't get the message, then I will say.
I have studied nearly all my life and even did graphology along the way, perhaps it's that?

Getting back to the topic.

What happens when we die?
I did at one time often question- 'is this life all there is?'
What is the real purpose of why i'm here? because everything that I would look at around me be it trees,insects, fruit, nature they each and all had their very own purposes. This often got me wondering that why me, just myself among all fellow humans is my purpose??

Thankfully, I don't wonder about these things any more, well maybe just a little at times.
It has all been thanks to the faith. The Guru Granth Sahib still keeps on giving me more answers. Waheguru.

Talking to many others, I'm aware that the interest in knowing what happens when we discard our body like a shell is vast among us.

Perhaps, knowing what could happen makes the individual a better being?

Lets say, I can commit crimes here with confidence of not getting caught. But, knowing that after my death, I may have to face the lord and I may be begging for forgiveness.
*Just knowing this*, could infact stop me taking any action to commit crimes, even though I may be a professional crime lord.

What I'm trying to say is that -YES, knowing can be of benefit. However, NOT KNOWING may be of benefit as well, - as one would try and maximise their achievements in this life span.
Having the 'we are not supposed to know' attitude could even be beneficial.

_I think that what ever we think we know or believe is always going to do some GOOD- as long as it brings out the BEST OF US in one way or the other._

With my upbringing as a child I was taught about going to heaven, angels, the lord, gates of heaven, St Peter, etc. (from christian influence).
In all honesty whether it was christian or not, it taught me and bought out the best of me grew into this world. 
 As a child, knowing that if i'm good the angels will protect me, certainly influenced the making of my character today. 

To me personally, I never think that this life is all there is. I feel that death is just the beginning NOT the end. Just to have the belief and awareness that after death, I can have the chance to unite with God providing I have lived this life the accepted, intended and pleasing way. This simple motive gives me everlasting hope and awareness.

I also feel that it is just attachments that give us all a fear of death.
ie. fear of leaving loved ones, how will they cope ? How much estate the goverment taxes will take off the family?-- ALL attachments that in our minds we have attached great importance to.

According to the hukam of God, I believe we all have our own distinct times mapped out by the lord. Not knowing this date and time should encourage us all to make the most of each day.
We should also try to control our holds over the attachments.
This is the part that does sometimes get me thinking. Let me be a little clear- 

Having control over the attachments, be it our immediate family. Let's say my kids and my partner. How do I exactly draw the line, if any, of how attached I am to my blood family? Being prepared to detach is sometimes not imaginable. I mean Guru Gobind Singh  actually knew that in the name of faith he would be detached from his sons Ajit,Jujhar,Zorawar and Fateh Singh. All young and loveable to him. 
Guru Gobind Singh ji set us the ultimate example, but still we are too weak, not many of us could detach from our children in the same manner.

Not forgetting he lost his father in the same manner.
I'll be honest, I could never make such a difficult decision so as to sacrifice my kids.
Having that example should be goals that we could all aim for.

Getting back, I was trying to say, that we are also to show love to all mankind.
God doesn't expect us NOT to love our children. But, where do we draw the fine line between attachment/detachment and love?
This is my concern. Because having love results in attachment. 
Or are we supposed to have love with no or minimal attachment somehow??

I would appreciate some views and thoughts.

Sat kartar
Lucky Singh


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*

Luckysing Veer ji some thoughts.

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> What happens when we die?
> I did at one time often question- 'is this life all there is?'
> What is the real purpose of why i'm here? because everything that I would look at around me be it trees,insects, fruit, nature they each and all had their very own purposes. This often got me wondering that why me, just myself among all fellow humans is my purpose??


Physically something like the following,







> Perhaps, knowing what could happen makes the individual a better being?


 _Veer one has to differentiate between “being better” versus “being best”.  One comes from fear and the other comes from love and gratitude.  The latter is ever refreshing and long lasting._




> Lets say, I can commit crimes here with confidence of not getting caught. But, knowing that after my death, I may have to face the lord and I may be begging for forgiveness.
> *Just knowing this*, could in fact stop me taking any action to commit crimes, even though I may be a professional crime lord.


 _Committing crime and God/Creator are separate issues.  Creator only impacts through creation and is not sitting in a separate palace deciding your fate after death and taking count of good and bad you did._

_Committing crime and dealing with creation is the short answer.  It is the creation all around which is self regulating in such instances.
_


> To me personally, I never think that this life is all there is. I feel that death is just the beginning NOT the end. Just to have the belief and awareness that after death, I can have the chance to _unite with God_ providing I have lived this life the accepted, intended and pleasing way. This simple motive gives me everlasting hope and awareness.


 _Veer ji uniting with God is a falsehood as a physical or virtual concept.  _

_Imprinting on the creation is reality.  Guru Nanak Dev ji is imprinted on millions of lives, that is uniting with God/creator.  Guru Nanak Dev ji is as alive as he was for those who never met him face-to-face during his physical life time.  This is uniting with God/creator.  There are many other examples in like manner._


_So one has to strive to be one of the best that you can be and leave the rest with creation to so recognize._


> Having control over the attachments, be it our immediate family. Let's say my kids and my partner. How do I exactly draw the line, if any, of how attached I am to my blood family? Being prepared to detach is sometimes not imaginable. I mean Guru Gobind Singh actually knew that in the name of faith he would be detached from his sons Ajit,Jujhar,Zorawar and Fateh Singh. All young and loveable to him.
> 
> Guru Gobind Singh ji set us the ultimate example, but still we are too weak, not many of us could detach from our children in the same manner.
> 
> Not forgetting he lost his father in the same manner.


_Veer you have cited a wonderful example.  What brings strength in such situations?  Hard to say as everyone is different.  The fundamental aspect is seeing it as part of living._ 

_The most important that I feel in this regards is the legacy that you impinge on others.  What was that mother Theresa left behind?  A concept that embodied what was possible in selfless service._



> I'll be honest, I could never make such a difficult decision so as to sacrifice my kids.
> Having that example should be goals that we could all aim for.
> 
> Getting back, I was trying to say, that we are also to show love to all mankind.
> ...


_Veer there is nothing wrong with love and attachment.  What one has to recognize and reconcile with is that we and all transform all the time.  One can have love and attachment but if one has trained self to allow transformation to make changes and be at peace with such, then you have enjoyed the fruits as well as reconciled the fall season._

_So more important than getting rid of the beauty of life, attachments or no attachments is to develop and build abilities to accept ever continuing change._

Just some thoughts.

Sat Sri Akal.


----------



## Luckysingh (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*



Ambarsaria said:


> _So more important than getting rid of the beauty of life, attachments or no attachments is to develop and build abilities to accept ever continuing change._
> 
> Just some thoughts.
> 
> Sat Sri Akal.


 
Ambersaria ji

     Many thanks for approaching these awkward questions with that phraseology and manner.

It makes  me realise that sometimes we should all change our bearings when we can't seem to get any answers or feel like we are up against a brick wall.
Your quote above about developing and building abilities to 'ACCEPT EVER CONTINUING CHANGE' is one of the interesting lines that I have come across lately.

It makes me realise that so many individuals in this world self inflict suffering, pain, resentment, guilt, depression etc...... as a direct result of REFUSING TO ACCEPT continuing change.
 The remedy sounds simple, but its easier said than done.


Waheguru
Lucky Singh


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## amarjit singh bamrah (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*



Ambarsaria said:


> Luckysing Veer ji some thoughts.
> 
> _._
> 
> ...


 

I too applaud you Ambarsaria Veerji

We all have to be open to changes.
If only everyone thought this way the world would be a better place.

We must respect everyone which is what Guru Nanak Baba teaches us.

Everyone is correct in the way they think for they look at the
situation their own way.

Judge not lest ye be judged comes in my mind

Satnaam

amarjit


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## Harry Haller (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*



Luckysingh said:


> I was talking in a literal sense. I didn't learn E=mc2 directly from the Guru Granth Sahib, but from following Einstein's work.( who was by all means given his ability with the blessings of the creator)
> What I stated was that the other things we learn to condition ourselves in our own distinct paths of life come to us in the directions that we take our steps. Just like a kid learns to ride a bike or learn to swim.
> 
> Everything we need to learn about life including its purpose is all there in the ultimate *guide* left to us 'the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji', which I did state is 'enough'. But all the rest, the practical things, including as kids-how we learnt to eat, drink, urinate etc etc.. is all handed to us as we proceed in our paths.
> ...



Luckyji

What you actually said 

_I believe the theory of why souls or spirits linger around and have no place to go.
Even though I don't think it mentions this directly in the Guru Granth Sahib._

which is not quite the same as what you are currently intimating, I do not make a habit of dissecting others posts, but I feel a responsibility to point out misleading information, this subject is covered in the SGGS and is not the same as how we eat or urinate, my point was that in attempting to see a different point of view, we must be careful we do not give validation within Sikhi to concepts that do not belong in Sikhi, and I will carry on doing so to protect the religion that I love from being watered down to the lowest common denominator


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## Harry Haller (Feb 27, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*

Amarjitji, 

As you have very kindly quoted me, I feel I must respond to your post. I am not going to criticise you for it, as you are a man of all religions, and as such, the message of your post is very simple, one should have no attachment to any other than God. 

However, there are two aspects that bother me, which I will outline 

1. This post appears all over the internet and has been posted on various forums, however, on other forums Guru Nanak ji has been replaced with Sai Baba, again, not a problem, you follow all religions, but the sort of ritual and Vedic undertones could not be ascribed to Guru  Nanakji as he fought and advised against them, I know not what Sai Baba tought, as I am a Sikh, but I sure know that Guru Nanakji would not read this and agree with you, as this post advocates reincarnation, ghosts, previous lives, effects of previous lives etc, I know this is a Sikh forum, but I think I and many others would prefer to see you use Sai Baba as you have on other forums so that concepts that our Gurus advised against are not lauded on their name. 

2. I know of no man who has had a conversation with God, other than messiahs, I know of no man who has seen God, who has interacted with God as you appear to do so on a regular basis, Shall I tell you why?, because certainly in Sikhism God has no form, no light shows, no large TV, We rely on our faith in Creator and Creation with no magic tricks or light shows, I put it to you Sir that your faith is grounded in these light shows and conversations, they are enough to convert even the most hardened atheist, so it is no surprise you are converted, the rest of us have to make do with nothing but the words of our living Guru to direct us and sustain us, it hardens your faith, it is unshakeable, would your faith be as strong if Babaji stopped visiting you and found something better to do with his time? Would you still believe if you had no visits? I would appreciate your answer on this one. 

You are welcome to your view Veerji, and I will respect it, however, as you have decided to interact with us, I would appreciate your answers so I may learn more about the message you are attempting to foist on us. 

Respect Peace, I look forward to your answer

mundahug


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 27, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*



harry haller said:


> Amarjitji,
> 
> As you have very kindly quoted me, I feel I must respond to your post. I am not going to criticise you for it, as you are a man of all religions, and as such, the message of your post is very simple, one should have no attachment to any other than God.
> 
> ...


_Come on Harry Haller ji you are being too hard on Veer Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji.  He is only trying to share his confusion and mis-direction with or without a motive.

Is the Sai Baba same guy who used to produce Gold Chains out of thin air, that is what the followers were led to believe.  Apparently he had a stash of these in his armpit and a bit of slight of hand.  A magician billionaire, just tells you how much darkness exists out there.  Harry veer ji I keep telling you to start a religion/Dehra and it will be more profitable than a computer shop  icecreammunda.  We can ask for Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji to be part of the team to do our mis-leading advertising by cutting and pasting.  I hope Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji should be big enough to receive turd in return for turd.

Say yes please! mundahug

_ Sat Sri Akal.


----------



## Seeker9 (Feb 27, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*



Ambarsaria said:


> _Come on Harry Haller ji you are being too hard on Veer Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji.  He is only trying to share his confusion and mis-direction with or without a motive.
> 
> Is the Sai Baba same guy who used to produce Gold Chains out of thin air, that is what the followers were led to believe.  Apparently he had a stash of these in his armpit and a bit of slight of hand.  A magician billionaire, just tells you how much darkness exists out there.  Harry veer ji I keep telling you to start a religion/Dehra and it will be more profitable than a computer shop  icecreammunda.  We can ask for Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji to be part of the team to do our mis-leading advertising by cutting and pasting.  I hope Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji should be big enough to receive turd in return for turd.
> 
> ...



Dear Ambarsaria Ji

He is indeed one and the same

I will not hijack this thread as there are other threads on Sai Baba on this forum and you can easily google plenty of material including the riches that were found in his?/dera's? possession after his passing last year

I also endorse Harry Ji's comments about copying and pasting Sai Baba's lessons on this forum. I would prefer if Amarjit Ji could share his own thoughts and leave us to Google Sai Baba's teachings ourselves if we ever get the inclination to do so

I hope I have not caused offence by stating this


----------



## Ambarsaria (Feb 27, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*



Seeker9 said:


> I hope I have not caused offence by stating this


_Veer Seeker9 ji you have more class than many Sikhi losers put together__ here.  Don't feel a pinch for such but feel for the dis-service to Sikhism these turban wearing avatars are doing!_

Sat Sri Akal.


----------



## amarjit singh bamrah (Feb 27, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*



harry haller said:


> Amarjitji,
> 
> As you have very kindly quoted me, I feel I must respond to your post. I am not going to criticise you for it, as you are a man of all religions, and as such, the message of your post is very simple, one should have no attachment to any other than God.
> 
> ...


 
Sat Naam satnaam


First of all without our Guru's Grace nothing is possible.
I have had Drashan from Baba Nanak, Jesus, Krishna ji, Sai Baba and other God's! yes they do exist.

*If you are interested I could post some Lessons on some other God's/teachers too who have appeared with divine lessons.*

(PS We are all God's for we have been formed from the image of God, However through countless rebirths we have become contaminated!)

I am certainly no Messiah.

The Lessons from God the Divine has shown me are beyond Religion.
They embrace Love
I am not promoting Sai Baba he does not need promoting. I too once thought he was a magican but now I am much wiser!

You must look beyond Sai Baba and Look at the depth of the Teachings from the Lessons.
They are all to me the most Amazing lessons and I am honoured that I have been able to write them.

The Lessons i have recieved about Attachment and detachment are some of the most amazing I have been channelled with!

For the last 20 years I have worked hard both in my job at our flying school and also Meditation, Deep Samadhi, initiations from various masters, and Kriya Yoga www.kriya.org which is a scientific method of opening our God Head by deep breathing into our Chakras!
 and also an Art which further raises our conciousness : www.vortexhealing.com 

Then I have also practised other Disciplines to purify this sheath/body in which my soul resides.

However even then we need our Guru's grace. There are many hurdles and temptations we face.

In the Holy Bible Moses talks of fighting the serpent in the desert.
He throws a stick and this turns into a serpent. i am sure you must have read this!

The serpent is our Kundalini Shakti which Yogi Bhajan teaches as well thru his various schools and teachers.

*Just imagine if the Holy spirit raised within us when we are unprepared. Its similar to pushing a 1000 watts current into a 25 watt bulb.*
*We would fizzle and die!*

To communicate with our inner Godhead we need some disciplines like :

Grace
Unconditional love
We must learn to master our Kam Krodh Lobh Moh Hankar
and have the right living and eat pure!

only then can we raise our conciousness to hear the voice of God,
our Guru,
Our Baba's,
our teacher. Voice 

otherwise like an untuned Radio we will hear distorted frequencies!






 amarjit


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## Seeker9 (Feb 27, 2012)

My observations and mine alone; I acknowledge they are negative and no personal offence intended 




> You must look beyond Sai Baba and Look at the depth of the Teachings from the Lessons.



Ok

I have already done so years ago (I was going through a tree hugging phase...thankfully it was very short-lived)  and I found nothing new

Just throw everything into a big melting pot and then a regurgitation of existing teachings appealing to passive love all serve all types and let's all make love and not war etc

Come to me and I will make you a better Christian, Sikh, Buddhist etc 

Which was quite clever as you get to retain your religion and follow Sai Baba as well. A genuine win:win scenario

Dear Amarjit Ji

I have been quite patient and appreciate you have attained contentment from your experiences. I genuinely wish I could say the same so well done

But with regard to Sathya Sai Baba in particular (not Shirdi Sai Baba), there are so many more negative things I could say, so many disturbing things I could talk about, but I have chosen not to as I try not to speak ill of the dead, especially "holy men" even if I thought they were dodgy

But if you continue to promulgate Sathya Sai Baba's teachings then I will start a thread and we can explore the man in exhaustive detail


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 27, 2012)

*Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment*



amarjit singh bamrah said:


> First of all without our Guru's Grace nothing is possible.
> 
> 
> > I have had _Drashan_ from Baba Nanak, Jesus, Krishna ji, Sai Baba and other God's! _yes they do exist_.
> ...


Veer ji I cannot believe you are writing what and how you do! In all seriousness get some professional help!

Sat Sri Akal.


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## BhagatSingh (Feb 27, 2012)

Ahaha! What is real for one is not real for another... the human condition.


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## amarjit singh bamrah (Feb 28, 2012)

We areare so used to seeing the world
with blinkers on

and looking at the half full glass only we miss the world going by and
not grow in conciousness.

Ambarsaria ji

You have just attached your self to your comments about swordfightSai Baba
and missed the Lesson of the teachings!

I bless you and will pray for you too.

amarjit


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## Harry Haller (Feb 28, 2012)

Amarjitji, 

I will be honest with you, I like you a lot, I think you are extremely likeable, and good things I have heard about you from mutual friend, however, although I have no ruck with the content of your message, the way in which you get these messages does point towards some sort of Bi Polar/Schizophrenia. For a change, I am not joking, I am being deadly serious, hearing voices, having darshans with Gods, I would be careful who you mention these things to, you could end up being sectioned. 

Your ultimate message though


_To communicate with our inner Godhead we need some disciplines like :

Grace
Unconditional love
We must learn to master our Kam Krodh Lobh Moh Hankar
and have the right living and eat pure!

only then can we raise our conciousness to hear the voice of God,
our Guru,
Our Baba's,
our teacher. Voice 
_
I have nothing but complete agreement with, it is a pity we as a Sikh community have lost you, if you had given your time and effort to the Panth, you could have been invaluable to us as a guiding light and inspiration., 

peacesignkaur

P.S. why not just concentrate on posting your thoughts and messages and opinions without the need to show us the working source, it makes people, including myself concentrate more on your source than the message, which is in fact completely in line with Sikhi, whereas the source is completely at odds..


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## amarjit singh bamrah (Feb 28, 2012)

harry haller said:


> Amarjitji,
> 
> I will be honest with you, I like you a lot, I think you are extremely likeable, and good things I have heard about you from mutual friend, however, although I have no ruck with the content of your message, the way in which you get these messages does point towards some sort of Bi Polar/Schizophrenia. For a change, I am not joking, I am being deadly serious, hearing voices, having darshans with Gods, I would be careful who you mention these things to, you could end up being sectioned.


 


Paji

I run an aircraft maintenance and Flying school company
We also employ approx 30 staff

I am also an approved Test Pilot by by the Aviation authorities.

To me higher conciousness is common.

I have met others who can delve into other realms as easy as you and I step on to the road or use a Tom Tom.

Its not hypnotism or magic asone may call it. Its real stuff.

amarjit


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## Harry Haller (Feb 28, 2012)

amarjit singh bamrah said:


> harry haller said:
> 
> 
> > Amarjitji,
> ...


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 28, 2012)

amarjit singh bamrah said:


> Ambarsaria ji
> 
> You have just attached your self to your comments about swordfightSai Baba and missed the Lesson of the teachings!
> 
> ...


amarjit singh bamrah ji what is the message to be taken from the video?  A slight of hand preacher showing people how he can magically do things and his teachings are so profound that all the sheep around don't speak up and say, Baba ji you don't have to trick us to believe you.  Let us move on.  If he said or did or accepted that I wll be more respectful.  

Collecting 10 crore and creating a Hospital with 1 crore is not something to be bragged about.  You deny the hoards of cash and valuables discovered in his dens or cash safety boxes.  You believe such antics define a high spirirtual soul somehow!  Of course we can see things differently.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Harry Haller (Feb 28, 2012)

BhagatSingh said:


> Ahaha! What is real for one is not real for another... the human condition.



You may wish to remember this the next time you invite us all on a mass turd smelling mission lol lol lol peacesign


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## BhagatSingh (Feb 28, 2012)

Sometimes I do things purely for self-amusement


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 28, 2012)

BhagatSingh said:


> Sometimes I do things purely for self-amusement


Bhagat Singh ji "_be realistic_" (just pulling your leg, one of my friends cutely uses this phrase often). You want to see people squirming, curdling their blood, fuming or otherwise banging their head on the table and wondering!  How come a young man like Bhagat Singh ji don't get it! lol 

Anyway adrenalin is good unless it causes a stroke, heart attack or internal bleeding.

Sat Sri Akal. mundahug


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## BhagatSingh (Feb 28, 2012)

I seem to have that effect on 1.45929217% of the people I meet. icecreammunda


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## BhagatSingh (Feb 28, 2012)

There are differences between a _darshan_ and a hallucination. Only one who capable of telling the difference between the two can ultimately have a _darshan_; a discerning intellect is required. In fact, one who has a _darshan_ is very vary of it being a hallucination. "It may be a hallucination", one might say to oneself.
The mechanism maybe the same but a key difference to remember between a hallucination and a _darshan_ is that _darshan_ carries with it insight into the nature of being. It carries with it wisdom that the individual previously did not have. It reveals to them the nature of being human and how to tackle problems. It reveals to them the nature of God. This insight/wisdom only comes from *darshans* (could be auudio, visual or intellectual). This is why many authors of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are longing for one.

Now someone who is talking about their experience of a _darshan_ is doing others a huge favour, while simultaneously making themselves very vulnerable to those who do not believe them and those who think they are simply hallucinations. Therefore, some etiquette is required on the part of the listeners. If you don't get anything out of it, stay quiet or leave. They don't constantly need to hear that their _darshan_ is an hallucination from you.


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 28, 2012)

BhagatSingh said:


> I seem to have that effect on 1.45929217% of the people I meet. icecreammunda


Veer Bhagat Singh ji I must be the folowing number in your calculation,


 1.4592921_7_%  or 0.00000007% lol

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 28, 2012)

BhagatSingh said:


> It carries with it wisdom that the individual previously did not have. It reveals to them the nature of being human and how to tackle problems. It reveals to them the nature of God. This insight/wisdom only comes from *darshans* (could be auudio, visual or intellectual).
> 
> 
> _So at a practical level so that I understand,_
> ...


Sat Sri Akal.


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## BhagatSingh (Feb 28, 2012)

1. 2. and unnumbered. Not enough information. What insight did this person get from that? What was revealed to them? What was illuminated by the audio, visuals or intellectual darshan? 

The example by your father seems to be a Darshan. _Darshan_ is an insight, revelation and illumination. Your father probably gained insight into something that allowed him to make the decision. You should have asked him the details.


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## Harry Haller (Feb 28, 2012)

Maybe Darshans are a bit like buses, you wait for years for one, and then loads come all at the same time....

Dreams are dreams, they can be explained, they are part of normal life, if we are to start to believe in constant daily Darshans, why not go the whole hog here and embrace the whole genre, spirits, goblins, superstitions, I say it is the thin end of the wedge.

If God is going to come to us and give us all the answers why bother study of SGGS at all, lets all just meditate, tweak our chakras, and plan our next life.

Having said that, I am glad you have support Amarjitji, it was getting a bit like shooting a fish in a barrel.

Good, lets get some debate going!, We can all learn something


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## BhagatSingh (Feb 28, 2012)

> If God is going to come to us and give us all the answers why bother study of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at all, lets all just meditate, tweak our chakras, and plan our next life


He usually is giving you all the answers but your mind does not recognize them. So you study spiritual texts and meditate. This process helps you to recognize them.

After getting/recognizing the answers, there is practical application - incorporating the answers into your life and passing on the wisdom.



> lets all just meditate


 You should be doing that regardless. In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji there is constant reminder to meditate.


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## Harry Haller (Feb 28, 2012)

_You should be doing that regardless. In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji there is constant reminder to meditate._<!-- google_ad_section_end --> 

you say tomato


We have covered this one a few times, meditate? or understand and implement?

One thing I will say about the meditation/reincarnation/Veg eating/Vedic crowd, they seem determined to foist their own interpretation on the rest of us, I do not recall ever telling anyone that they should be doing anything, is it too much to ask for the same in return?

Anyway I have things to do, I have had 4 baths now and I can still smell dog poo


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 28, 2012)

BhagatSingh said:


> The example by your father seems to be a Darshan. _Darshan_ is an insight, revelation and illumination. Your father probably gained insight into something that allowed him to make the decision. You should have asked him the details.


_Bhagat Singh ji my father gave me the details but this is father-son dialog that will forever be sealed and he passed away in 1989. You think I am staright shooter, aggressive, perhaps at times stubborn, you never met him. He was pure as morning dew but direct as a sharp knife. _

_He was no Akali Dal person but followed Congress from Politics. He was elected member of the Punjab University Senate representing the High/Secondary Schools Headmasters/Principals across the undivided Punjab. He received a written Murder Threat in one of these elections to be shot dead or drop out, he said whatever and won!_

_Sat Sri Akal._


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 28, 2012)

harry haller said:


> _You should be doing that regardless. In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji there is constant reminder to meditate._<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
> 
> you say tomato
> 
> _Anyway I have things to do, I have had 4 baths now and I can still smell dog poo_


Come on Harry Veer ji you are halllucinating again.  I don't smell anything here!  

Big dog, big poo, e---oooouh!

Sat Sri akal.


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## Harry Haller (Feb 28, 2012)

Ambarsaria said:


> Come on Harry Veer ji you are halllucinating again. I don't smell anything here!
> 
> Big dog, big poo, e---oooouh!
> 
> Sat Sri akal.


 
Oh? you didnt take part in yesterdays form formless experiment then?

We all had to smear dog poo under our noses, how come you missed it?


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 28, 2012)

harry haller said:


> Oh? you didnt take part in yesterdays form formless experiment then?
> 
> _We all had to smear dog poo under our noses, how come you missed it?[/_QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## BhagatSingh (Feb 28, 2012)

No Harry ji, It's not meditate OR understand and implement. *It is meditate, understand and implement.* You are creating false dichotomies where none exist.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is contantly reminding the reader to meditate. And if someone is wants to follow the Sikh spiritual tradition they better start meditating. (It is similar to reminding you to eat nutritious food and to exercise daily.) If you are going to join a tradition, at some point you want to follow what it says. Otherwise, what was the point of joining it, you might as well have stayed wherever you were before.

Yeah I like to tell people what to do. It's fun. icecreammunda 
You are Harry Haller, you don't like telling others what to do. But for some reason you want others to like what you like. You want them to behave like you. Well that is not going to happen.

Hahaa it is quite funny that you think that by not telling others what to do, you are doing them a favour.


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 28, 2012)

BhagatSingh said:


> Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is contantly reminding the reader to meditate. And if someone is wants to follow the Sikh spiritual tradition they better start meditating.


Bhagat Singh veer ji I have a comment.

Sometimes when I deeply review Gurbani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, I feel like I am lost in that and nothing else. I get joy from such state and a unique realization. Can you meditate with eyes wide open and be doing it without realizing to be so doing? If such is a case what is the point of belaboring on the label "Meditation" versus defining how it can arise un-initiated and without effort. Which is better forcing self into or the one that comes by own?

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Seeker9 (Feb 28, 2012)

Dear Bhagat Singh Ji

Your points around Darshan are well made

However, I have difficulty accepting the concept that some people can access the Spiritual resource (or whatever you want to call it) as and when they like or as easily as crossing the road

Maybe I'm just jealous I have never had such an experience.....


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## BhagatSingh (Feb 28, 2012)

That is a good question Ambarsaria Veerji.
Both are necessary. (It's the same thing though. In reality there is no "both" just a difference in form.)
In one case you are reading. In the other, you are chanting or simply sitting there. The latter is a more "pure" form of meditation designed to relax the intellect while the previous one keeps the intellect contracted. You want to contract the intellect fully to train it but you also want to relax the intellect fully. You want to practice doing both contraction and relaxation. This is akin to the _miri piri_ principle. Participating greatly in wordly acitivities and rituals (_miri_) while also going deep within the self (_piri_). You do both and get good at both. Teh contraction and relaxation are complimentary. They have a positive effect on each other.

Meditation always arises uninitiated without effort. Whenever someone is said to be meditating, they did not force it. Forcing is a contraction hence it prevents meditation. If you are good at it it should arise uninitiated without effort whilst you are doing nothing. When it does, it results in relaxation of the intellect. When this happens there is no observer and observed but simply perception (_dhyan_). This is where you get to when you read SGGS. But if you stop reading and maintain this _dhyan_. Your perception grows and becomes starkly accurate. Then the intellect relaxes enough to stop perceiving things in duality, and sees Oneness for what it is. This is growth of perception to it's most accurate stage, the seeing of Oneness (_Samadhi_). 

(On a side note: Certain things can only be discovered/known in the relaxed intellect state similar to how certain things are only known in contracted intellect state (*cough* calculus *cough*). You will either come to know them through meditation or will never know them, no matter how many books you read! I cannot stress this enough!)

Balance this with times your intellect is contracted. The intellect contracts when you study, solve problems, do math, make plans, or simply think (critically). We contract the intellect to read spiritual texts but we must relax it to understand them. In moments where you relax the intellect fully you will have your own wisdom come to you. Also it is in the relaxation of the intellect that these things manifest: 





			
				Confused ji on a different thread said:
			
		

> kindness, giving, morality, truthfulness, patience, detachment and so on.



Hope that made sense.

PS The word in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji for contracted intellect is _bibek buddhi_, the discerning intellect. A gurmukh must possess _bibek buddhi _as well as the qualities quoted above.

Seeker9 ji,
I know life is not fair like that. Some people are better than me at math, some are better than me at art, etc. Some people ooze creativity. They are blessed indeed. The same thing happens with spirituality.

Remember, you can do it to but with time and practice. It is 10-15% talent the rest is skill that has been refined through hours and hours of labour. The artist sits there and draws for 10,000 hours before he becomes a master. The basketball player misses many shots before he becomes a pro. You gotta believe it's possible and you gotta be willing to put the time and energy into it.


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## Harry Haller (Feb 28, 2012)

BhagatSingh said:


> No Harry ji, It's not meditate OR understand and implement. *It is meditate, understand and implement.* You are creating false dichotomies where none exist.
> 
> Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is contantly reminding the reader to meditate. And if someone is wants to follow the Sikh spiritual tradition they better start meditating. (It is similar to reminding you to eat nutritious food and to exercise daily.) If you are going to join a tradition, at some point you want to follow what it says. Otherwise, what was the point of joining it, you might as well have stayed wherever you were before.
> 
> ...


 
The thought of anyone behaving like me fills me with horror actually, and I have yet to find anyone that likes what I like, I am honest about who I am, and I am happy that through living, I have come to many of the same conclusions as my fellow brothers and sisters, however I would not advocate the road.

 Allow me to be frank, I have an aversion to meditation, thats just me, if and when the good Lord thinks I should embrace it, I am sure he will let me know and you will be the first I will ask for assistance.

There is at present too much internal debate to find peace in meditation, and I have to have pointless arguments with someone now that Spji no longer wants to play


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## amarjit singh bamrah (Feb 29, 2012)

Seeker9 said:


> Dear Bhagat Singh Ji
> 
> Your points around Darshan are well made
> 
> ...


 
As Bhagat Singhji wrote in his words

 "Practice makes a man perfect"


When we meditate we slowly loose our EGO conciousness
and move into God conciousness.

Without Meditation we are still working in our EGO Conciousness
and we feel God is the Do-er however we are still the Do-er


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 29, 2012)

MEDITATION on "SATNAAM" would be like....say each time one wants to LIE/speak an untruth..even a white lie...one MEDITATES on such an action and tells the TRUTH...

Meditation on NIRBHAU..would be..each time one feels THREATENED..feels FEAR coming...one MEDITATES on this and REMAINS FEARLESS....Bhai MANI SINGH..pointing out to the executioner that his orders are to CUT each JOINT...not take short cuts...so take your time..sever each joint...and follow YOUR ORDERS..as I FOLLOW MINE.

Mediation on NIRVAIR..is to feel LOVE when the actual feeling creeping on is ENMITY...meditate on Compassion...love...dharma..pity...dya...care...BHAI KHANIYAH JI..feeding water and medicines to all wounded...Sikh and Non Sikh because he sees the face of GGS on all..Muslims as well as sikhs..

Meditation is not an activity in ISOLATION..carried out with closed eyes, lights out..in dark caves..or dungeons....repeating adnauseum certain meaningless words mantras.....ITS ACTION ORIENTED carried out SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH LIFE ACTIVITIES.
Malas and Japmalas, counting and all that is pure bull.****...roundly condemned in GURBANI asa THUGGH ACTIVITY.


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## amarjit singh bamrah (Feb 29, 2012)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> MEDITATION on "SATNAAM" would be like....say each time one wants to LIE/speak an untruth..even a white lie...one MEDITATES on such an action and tells the TRUTH...
> 
> Meditation on NIRBHAU..would be..each time one feels THREATENED..feels
> 
> Malas and Japmalas, counting and all that is pure bull.****...roundly condemned in GURBANI asa THUGGH ACTIVITY.


 

The Meditation being discussed I thought was in meditation in Silence
Our Gurus and my parents also used the Japa Mala and chanted Satnaam Waheguru and/or other names for God! 

And so do I

We must be   wasted THUGG's


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## Harry Haller (Feb 29, 2012)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> MEDITATION on "SATNAAM" would be like....say each time one wants to LIE/speak an untruth..even a white lie...one MEDITATES on such an action and tells the TRUTH...
> 
> Meditation on NIRBHAU..would be..each time one feels THREATENED..feels FEAR coming...one MEDITATES on this and REMAINS FEARLESS....Bhai MANI SINGH..pointing out to the executioner that his orders are to CUT each JOINT...not take short cuts...so take your time..sever each joint...and follow YOUR ORDERS..as I FOLLOW MINE.
> 
> ...



I have no problem with this, but as Amarjitji rightly points out it is the very Malas and Japmalas that are being lauded here, not what I would call focusing the mind and implementing Bani.........


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## BhagatSingh (Feb 29, 2012)

We just went over this. Miri Piri - going outward and doing wordly things as well as going deeply inward. You gotta do both. Mental contraction ad relaxation. You gotta do both. Another example would be muscle contraction and relaxation. 



> There is at present too much internal debate to find peace in meditation, and I have to have pointless arguments with someone now that Spji no longer wants to play


Compulsive internal debate like that is akin to fatigue, sore muscles and frequent muscle cramps and contractions due to intensive exercise. 
In order to work out and exercise the muscles, you need to relax them too. There are things (namely muscle growth and repair) that happen in relaxation that do not happen in contraction. Massage which is even further relaxation promotes blood flow (thus inflow of nutrients and oxygen) to those nooks and crannies inside your body, further promoting muscle growth and a healthy body overall.

"carried out with closed eyes, lights out..in dark caves..or dungeons" complements the Miri. There are Truths you can only discover in solitude, deep inside your mind. These Truths once discovered, then allow you to really understand what Guru Sahibs and Bhagats are saying in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, because they have also discovered these Truths through meditation in solitude. The only way to know if what they are saying is true is to actually do the experiment inside your consciousness. (Now of course, you can also take their word for it and simply do what they say. That's fine too.)

Things like creativity, wisdom, insight, virtues, art, music, dance, sports performance,  etc best arise in a relaxed intellect. Doing them also promotes a relaxed intellect. This is why Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is also heavy on kirtan and bhajans alongside and even combined with meditation. Constant reminders not only to repeat God's name and meditate but also *sing* Lord's praises. Everything is organized in musical structure. Music and bani go hand in hand because music relaxes the intellect. The whole system is designed to relax the intellect as the individual goes through the prescribed activities. 

Those expecting results after one session of meditation will be deeply unsatisfied. This is a long-term goal. Like exercise, you won't see the changes after a few sessions in the gym.

PS Mala is just a tool (a very good one nonetheless). Humans like to do things with their hands. Mala keeps the hand(s) busy. Another way is to touch your index or middle finger with your thumb, or to bring your hands together and rest one on top of the other. Hands want to touch, they want to constantly touch and play around with things.


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 29, 2012)

BhagatSingh said:


> PS Mala is just a tool (a very good one nonetheless). Humans like to do things with their hands. Mala keeps the hand(s) busy.
> 
> _Another way is to touch your index or middle finger with your thumb, or to bring your hands together and rest one on top of the other._ Hands want to touch, they want to constantly touch and play around with things.
> 
> ...



Sat Sri Akal.


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## amarjit singh bamrah (Feb 29, 2012)

Ambarsaria said:


> Sat Sri Akal.


 

Sikhism and the Khlasa should also be about unconditional love

Its not all about war and aggression.

However we have lost the plot!
The question was where do we go when we die.
and what is attachment and detachment?
Are we too attached to our attachments
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


 that when the time comes, when the call comes for us to leave this body and prepare ourselv for our re-incarnation have we detached our self ?

In our scriptures it states You come empty handed and you go empty handed

Learn to practice Attachment and detachment.


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## Ambarsaria (Feb 29, 2012)

amarjit singh bamrah said:


> Sikhism and the Khlasa should also be about unconditional love
> 
> Its not all about war and aggression.
> 
> ...


Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji thanks for your post.

I ask you, "Are you not attached to your ideas?"  Attachment does not have to be to objects.  From the beigning of the date of this thread to date, how much of your original ideas, approach have become de-attached?  

Veer you are a smart man but too engrossed on cut and pastes and less open to discourse where change may occur.  I am not a push over or easy nut either but I have learned tremendously over the last twelve months here and it may not show but that is just me.

  So think about approach in terms of Sikhism and Sikhi and let us see how your last two posts check out,



References to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in detail = ZERO
Reduction in cutting and pasting avatar style pictures of Guru jis =  ZERO
I am not a preacher =  I have not seen any learning from posts in this thread,  really you continue to preach
Judge of this is the audience and not you
 
Again I think you have tremendous wisdom but it is mis-placed and misapplied to what you claim Sikhism to be based on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Sat Sri Akal.

*PS:  *Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji take comments with this as a supposition.  Enemies would encourage you even for mistakes, friends will point the mistakes so you make less with every passing day.  This is how I take comments addressed to me  kudihug and I hope you don't take offense to mine.  If it bothers you I will stop responding except where Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji I believe is mis-quoted or mis-represented.


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## Luckysingh (Feb 29, 2012)

amarjit singh bamrah said:


> Sikhism and the Khlasa should also be about unconditional love
> 
> Its not all about war and aggression.
> 
> ...


We are very much attached.
Infact, we feel it is just a few physical attachments, when infact it's even our beliefs that we become attached to.
Attachments are ALL that we have difficulty detaching and also they can be anything that we keep with us as we progress from day to day. This may well be physical posessions, things learnt, mental and spiritual beliefs and our actions.


Waheguru
Lucky Singh


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## Kanwaljit.Singh (Feb 29, 2012)

> that when the time comes, when the call comes for us to leave this body and prepare ourselv for our re-incarnation have we detached our self ?



Death would detach us from everything and there would be nothing left of 'me' to reincarnate. My thoughts, my memories, my feelings, my disappointments will be all gone. Everything within me would break into pieces, smaller and smaller and be flown away with the wind and rain.

We are like computer programs in a memory, as long as we work on finding our solution, we can solve the problem and reach the next level of execution (as a process). If not, we run out of laptop battery, we shut down and all things in the memory (not hard disk, that could be DNA) would be lost. After some time, if we get a power source, we might 'restart' but there would be no trace of the process running before. A new process would be started and it would again try to find the solution.

And the complexity of reaching a solution is infinite in terms of time and space!

PS: Don't mind my philosophical outburst and computer science lingo!


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 1, 2012)

Kanwaljit Singh said:


> Death would detach us from everything and there would be nothing left of 'me' to reincarnate. My thoughts, my memories, my feelings, my disappointments will be all gone. Everything within me would break into pieces, smaller and smaller and be flown away with the wind and rain.


_Kanwaljit Singh ji don't be too hard on yourself. If we were to follow your assertion, we would not know our Guru ji's existed and gave us Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji._

_We live through others and others live through us. It is the interactions, the memories, the changes in our outlook, and so on. Such have spiritual/soul as well as associated physical manifestations. I call it soft re-incarnation or living transformation which is not based on "one dies and become exactly one of something else". Neither all is positive and nor all is negative, it is what it is. _

_This is one creator's one creation. __We are all one before birth, in life and after death, just the physical shape and the type of interactions change._

_Sat Sri Akal._


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Mar 1, 2012)

Kanwaljit Singh ji...any idea how a BRAND NEW Chick of a stork..BORN in SIBERIA....naturally knows the way to fly THOUSANDS of miles to MALAYSIA....each year ?? How a SALMON knows just where to RETURN to breed...million miles away...and then GO BACK to live out its life a million miles away from its BIRTH PLACE...

That KNOWLEDGE is in the GENES..passed ON from Generation to generation..
HUMANS also pass on KNOWLEDGE...we TRAIN our NEXT JOON while alive..our children are our JOON...if a SANT breeds a CHOR....as his son...the sant has failed..and its HIS PUNISHMENT to see his son languish in jail for theft..and die with that thought...??? a thought ???
Tomorrow i will post an interesting article on this..


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## Kanwaljit.Singh (Mar 5, 2012)

The highlighted line in the post tells how Karma can be useless if Guru doesn't approve in the end game!

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥ Siree Raag, Fourth Mehl:
ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵਾ ਗੁਣ ਵਿਥਰਾ ਗੁਣ ਬੋਲੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਇ ॥ I sing His Glories, I describe His Glories, I speak of His Glories, O my mother.
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਜਣੁ ਗੁਣਕਾਰੀਆ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਜਣ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇ ॥ The Gurmukhs, my spiritual friends, bestow virtue. Meeting with my spiritual friends, I sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord.
ਹੀਰੈ ਹੀਰੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਬੇਧਿਆ ਰੰਗਿ ਚਲੂਲੈ ਨਾਇ ॥੧॥ The Diamond of the Guru has pierced the diamond of my mind, which is now dyed in the deep crimson color of the Name. ||1||
ਮੇਰੇ ਗੋਵਿੰਦਾ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵਾ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਿ ਮਨਿ ਹੋਇ ॥ O my Lord of the Universe, singing Your Glorious Praises, my mind is satisfied.
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਪਿਆਸ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਤੁਸਿ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Within me is the thirst for the Lord's Name; may the Guru, in His Pleasure, grant it to me. ||1||Pause||
ਮਨੁ ਰੰਗਹੁ ਵਡਭਾਗੀਹੋ ਗੁਰੁ ਤੁਠਾ ਕਰੇ ਪਸਾਉ ॥ Let your minds be imbued with His Love, O blessed and fortunate ones. By His Pleasure, the Guru bestows His Gifts.
ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਏ ਰੰਗ ਸਿਉ ਹਉ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ ॥ The Guru has lovingly implanted the Naam, the Name of the Lord, within me; I am a sacrifice to the True Guru.
ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਲਭਈ ਲਖ ਕੋਟੀ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਉ ॥੨॥ Without the True Guru, the Name of the Lord is not found, even though people may perform hundreds of thousands, even millions of rituals. ||2||
ਬਿਨੁ ਭਾਗਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਨਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਘਰਿ ਬੈਠਿਆ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਨਿਤ ਪਾਸਿ ॥ Without destiny, the True Guru is not found, even though He sits within the home of our own inner being, always near and close at hand.
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਅਗਿਆਨ ਦੁਖੁ ਭਰਮੁ ਹੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਪੜਦਾ ਦੂਰਿ ਪਈਆਸਿ ॥ There is ignorance within, and the pain of doubt, like a separating screen.
ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭੇਟੇ ਕੰਚਨੁ ਨਾ ਥੀਐ ਮਨਮੁਖੁ ਲੋਹੁ ਬੂਡਾ ਬੇੜੀ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੩॥ Without meeting with the True Guru, no one is transformed into gold. The self-willed manmukh sinks like iron, while the boat is very close. ||3||
ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਬੋਹਿਥੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਵ ਹੈ ਕਿਤੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਚੜਿਆ ਜਾਇ ॥ The Boat of the True Guru is the Name of the Lord. How can we climb on board?
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਭਾਣੈ ਜੋ ਚਲੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਬੋਹਿਥ ਬੈਠਾ ਆਇ ॥ One who walks in harmony with the True Guru's Will comes to sit in this Boat.
ਧੰਨੁ ਧੰਨੁ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜਿਨਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਲਏ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥੪॥੩॥੬੭॥ Blessed, blessed are those very fortunate ones, O Nanak, who are united with the Lord through the True Guru. ||4||3||67||


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## Manni Singh 85 (Mar 5, 2012)

Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji. Sat Sri Akal.    Could you please clearify that if such souls ghosts etc etc exist through gurbani ? Please.   Dhanwad


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Mar 5, 2012)

> in Sikhism God has no form, no light shows, no large TV


 
Veer Ji God created the very first Plasma 3d projection Tv. (Tv=thought vista)

It comes with a 6 Billion year warranty.


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 5, 2012)

Why 6 billion year warranty?


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Mar 5, 2012)

Veera first law of warranties is that they only last half as long as the Universal T.v.


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 5, 2012)

Well we don't know how long the Universal Tv is going to last.


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Mar 5, 2012)

Veera relax our shows will be cancelled much before that Tv,anyway it does not end, the viewer just loses the remote control .


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## Manni Singh 85 (Mar 5, 2012)

Bhagat Singh Ji.    SSA.    You are 100% percent right about meditation.  I know someone who have had the darshans.  And that person meditate lot.  And that what sant maskeen ji says in all of his kathas.      Thank you ji


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 5, 2012)

Spji, The viewer thinks he has a remote control. The illusion is so strong it's not even funny. When you meditate and "lose" that remote control, you die while you are still alive. The 'you' who thinks he has control dies. Reminds me of that shabad by Guru Arjan Dev ji that LuckySingh ji and I discussed on that other thread Hindu Sikh identity.

"Dieing while you are still alive" has to be the wackiest thing I have ever heard. But it makes so much sense when you actually do it. icecreammunda You may not stay dead for long but at least you get a glimpse into what Gurus are talking about and what you gotta practice doing. 

"So Bhagat what did you do over the study week break?"
"You know... the usual... I practiced dieing every now and then."
"Oh like for a suicide bombing mission?" *nudge nudge* :grinningsingh:
"..uh..."  lol

Manni Singh ji, yeah it seems there has been a disconnect between the ancient traditions and the modern generation. A lack of understanding of what meditation is. I am just trying to bridge that gap through any medium/language available. I am working on some art as well. Martyrs are great for promoting meditation. Guru Arjan Dev ji on a hot plate completely "chill", totally relaxed, 
Bhai Taru Singh as he gets his scalp chiseled off, immersed in the transcendent reality, etc.


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 5, 2012)

Ambarsaria ji,


> However I read your posts with great interest and genuine desire to understand.


I am glad you do so. Keep up the effort.

"you cannot be the judge and jury at the same time"
I don't know what the phrase means. I tried looking it up but didn't find anything. 

I am actually not talking about hallucinations or darshans in posts where I didn't mention them. Can you see "Dieing while you are still alive" as something other than a hallucination? Think about what it could be.


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 6, 2012)

BhagatSingh said:


> Ambarsaria ji,
> 
> I am glad you do so. Keep up the effort.
> 
> ...



Let me know if any questions or comments.
Sat Sri Akal.


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## amarjit singh bamrah (Mar 6, 2012)

Dying while you are still alive.
means when you eneter deep Samadhi and seperate your senses you die while living.

Means being immersed in God's name all the time
and having no attachments

With learning to become Detached we 
Die while we live.


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 6, 2012)

amarjit singh bamrah said:


> Dying while you are still alive.
> means when you eneter deep Samadhi and seperate your senses you die while living.
> 
> Means being immersed in God's name all the time
> ...


_Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji thanks for your post._

_The issue with the logic of your post and perhaps Bhagat Singh ji's too is that you are arbitrarily redifining the definition of "Life" and "Death". Death is cessation of Life that 99.9999+% of the world understands. Death state cannot revert back to Life state to where it was before death occurred. If it did it simply will mean that the declaration of death was false. _

_Using the words like death and Living is erroneous. If you mean getting to forget your conscious or detaching from it while awake that is a different item. Confusing awake and in Samadhi/Trans with "Life" and "Death/Dieing" is highly illogical._

_Sat Sri Akal. mundahug_


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Mar 6, 2012)

> The illusion is so strong it's not even funny


Veera thats because it's very High Definition,Gods Tv makes Blu Ray look like silent movies.


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 6, 2012)

Haha Ambarsaria ji,
Using definitions is good but some things cannot be conveyed so the conveyor looks for words and assembles them to convey the reality. Guru Sahib are trying to convey something when they say "Die while remaining alive".
They say when one one dies while remaining alive one:
-has the Lord enshrined in his mind
-understands God's will
-has no ego
-is liberated while still being alive
-is not reborn again
etc

Death is the cessation of life. If you think life is one way and after some experience you realize that was not life. This is also death. Death of life as you knew it. At this point you are still alive. 

We are looking at death from the point of view of the individual. What happens?
*1. Amarjit Singh ji mentions withdrawal of senses*
ਪੰਚ ਪਹਰੂਆ ਦਰ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਨਹੀ ਪਤੀਆਰਾ ॥
पंच पहरूआ दर महि रहते तिन का नही पतीआरा ॥
Pancẖ pahrū▫ā ḏar mėh rahṯe ṯin kā nahī paṯī▫ārā.
The five senses stand as guards at the gate, but now can they be trusted?

ਚੇਤਿ ਸੁਚੇਤ ਚਿਤ ਹੋਇ ਰਹੁ ਤਉ ਲੈ ਪਰਗਾਸੁ ਉਜਾਰਾ ॥੨॥
चेति सुचेत चित होइ रहु तउ लै परगासु उजारा ॥२॥
Cẖeṯ sucẖeṯ cẖiṯ ho▫e rahu ṯa▫o lai pargās ujārā. ||2||
When you are conscious in your consciousness (definition of _smadhi_), you shall be enlightened and illuminated. ||2||

ਨਉ ਘਰ ਦੇਖਿ ਜੁ ਕਾਮਨਿ ਭੂਲੀ ਬਸਤੁ ਅਨੂਪ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥
नउ घर देखि जु कामनि भूली बसतु अनूप न पाई ॥
Na▫o gẖar ḏekẖ jo kāman bẖūlī basaṯ anūp na pā▫ī.
Seeing the nine openings of the body, the soul-bride is led astray; she does not obtain that incomparable thing.

ਕਹਤੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਨਵੈ ਘਰ ਮੂਸੇ ਦਸਵੈਂ ਤਤੁ ਸਮਾਈ ॥੩॥੨੨॥੭੩॥
कहतु कबीर नवै घर मूसे दसवैं ततु समाई ॥३॥२२॥७३॥
Kahaṯ Kabīr navai gẖar mūse ḏasvaiŉ ṯaṯ samā▫ī. ||3||22||73||
Says Kabeer, the nine openings of the body are being plundered; rise up to the Tenth Gate, and discover the true essence. ||3||22||73||

page 339

*2. Nothing belongs to the individual anymore*
ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਤੂੰ ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨਹਿ ਤੇ ਪਾਹੁਨ ਦੋ ਦਾਹਾ ॥
जिस नो तूं असथिरु करि मानहि ते पाहुन दो दाहा ॥
Jis no ṯūŉ asthir kar mānėh ṯe pāhun ḏo ḏāhā.
That which you believe to be permanent, is a guest here for only a few days.

ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਕਲਤ੍ਰ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਸਗਲ ਸਮਗ੍ਰੀ ਸਭ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਅਸਨਾਹਾ ॥੧॥
पुत्र कलत्र ग्रिह सगल समग्री सभ मिथिआ असनाहा ॥१॥
Puṯar kalṯar garih sagal samagrī sabẖ mithi▫ā asnāhā. ||1||
Children, wives, homes, and all possessions - attachment to all of these is false. ||1||

ਰੇ ਮਨ ਕਿਆ ਕਰਹਿ ਹੈ ਹਾ ਹਾ ॥
रे मन किआ करहि है हा हा ॥
Re man ki▫ā karahi hai hā hā.
O mind, why do you burst out laughing?

ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਦੇਖੁ ਜੈਸੇ ਹਰਿਚੰਦਉਰੀ ਇਕੁ ਰਾਮ ਭਜਨੁ ਲੈ ਲਾਹਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
द्रिसटि देखु जैसे हरिचंदउरी इकु राम भजनु लै लाहा ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ḏarisat ḏekẖ jaise haricẖanḏ▫urī ik rām bẖajan lai lāhā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
See with your eyes, that these things are only mirages. So earn the profit of meditation on the One Lord. ||1||Pause||
page 402

*3. The individual has no friends, no strangers, no enemies.*
ਬੈਰੀ ਮੀਤ ਹੋਏ ਸੰਮਾਨ ॥
बैरी मीत होए समान ॥
Bairī mīṯ ho▫e sammān.
Enemy and friend are all the same to me.

ਸਰਬ ਮਹਿ ਪੂਰਨ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥
सरब महि पूरन भगवान ॥
Sarab mėh pūran bẖagvān.
The Perfect Lord God is permeating all.

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਆਗਿਆ ਮਾਨਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
प्रभ की आगिआ मानि सुखु पाइआ ॥
Parabẖ kī āgi▫ā mān sukẖ pā▫i▫ā.
Accepting the Will of God, I have found peace.

ਗੁਰਿ ਪੂਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ ॥੩॥
गुरि पूरै हरि नामु द्रिड़ाइआ ॥३॥
Gur pūrai har nām driṛ▫ā▫i▫ā. ||3||
The Perfect Guru has implanted the Name of the Lord within me. ||3||
page 1147

*ETC*


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 6, 2012)

Bhagat Sing ji fundamental flaw that I raised with you in an other thread persists and actually got stronger.





BhagatSingh said:


> Haha Ambarsaria ji,
> Using definitions is good but some things cannot be conveyed so the conveyor looks for words and assembles them to convey the reality.....
> 
> We are looking at death from the point of view of the individual. What happens?
> ...


Your logic and argument belies you every step of the way and so called ideal states are not possible, nor to be sought, in by as objectives. Logic is hard and the ultimate test of truth and you cannot weazle your way around it.

Sikhism is living with and not living without.

Sat Sri Akal. mundahug


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 6, 2012)

You are, Ambarsaria ji. You can do it. I believe in you. :grinningsingh: You have to trust yourself to judge e.g whether you see attachments as transient and false. I think it is possible when you develop the kind of mind-set that keeps an eye on your actions. An ideal is what you measure yourself against, in order to see your progress. This is the way to learn from a book. The book sets standards which you measure yourself against. If it was a human Guru then it would be different.

Now of course ideals are hard to obtain just like it's super hard to get 100% on a test but you can crudely measure your progress by seeing how far you are from 100%. The idea is to be the best you can be whilst striving to be better.

PS Logic is part of Truth *not* a test of it or the Truth itself.


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 6, 2012)

BhagatSingh said:


> You are, Ambarsaria ji. You can do it. I believe in you. :grinningsingh:
> ..............
> 
> Now of course ideals are hard to obtain just like it's super hard to get 100% on a test but you can crudely measure your progress by seeing how far you are from 100%. The idea is to be the best you can be whilst striving to be better.
> ...


 
No problems, you go your way and I go mine.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Kanwaljit.Singh (Mar 6, 2012)

Lessons about life and death best captured!

Teri Duniya Me Dil _ Mukesh in Bawre Nain      - YouTube


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## japjisahib04 (Mar 7, 2012)

Ambarsaria said:


> _._
> 
> _The issue with the logic of your post and perhaps Bhagat Singh ji's too is that you are arbitrarily redifining the definition of "Life" and "Death". Death is cessation of Life that 99.9999+% of the world understands. Death state cannot revert back to Life state to where it was before death occurred. If it did it simply will mean that the declaration of death was false. _
> 
> ...


S. Ambarsaria Ji

In our nitnem we daily recite, 'aakha jeevan visrai mar jaon' (when I delve in gurbani I live while forgetting I die)  or Nanak jit vaila visrai mera suwami *** vailai mar jao - When I forget you Oh my beloved I die. SGGS 562.4 - Now do I physically die by ignoring the gurbani and or am not living? This mean through these pankties, guru sahib is trying to convey the definition of janam and maran and is referring to spiritual death or spiritual living and not physical death.  

Best regards
Mohinder Singh Sahni


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 7, 2012)

Veer japjisahib04 ji thanks for your post. Veer it appears you have been confused by Bhagat Singh and Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji ("DUO" so I can easily reference their collective thought on this subject and not dis-respect, please) on a temprarily basis. 

Let us review,



japjisahib04 said:


> S. Ambarsaria Ji
> 'aakha jeevan visrai mar jaon' (when I delve in gurbani I live while forgetting I die) or Nanak jit vaila visrai mera suwami *** vailai mar jao - When I forget you Oh my beloved I die. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 562.4 -
> 
> 
> ...


I will dialog further but I want us to understand what the "DUO" is saying first.

Based on thanks to your post, they seem to imply your thoughts are like their's. Actually you are citing "always aware" to be living and they are stating "lack of awareness" (close eyes, forget all, La La land) as the message from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

I will comment further as this dialog develops.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 7, 2012)

Ambarsaria ji, 
I don't know about Lala land but certainly close your eyes and free yourself from what you know. It is only when one frees themselves from what they know that they can understand another human being at a deep level. This is a state of maximum awareness. Thinking otherwise is just plain ignorance of the phenomenon. Freedom from what you know is also what happens at death so part of the "Dieing while remaining alive" process. In science, when we don't understand something we experiment and note patterns, analyze until we do. The experiment here is to simply close your eyes and free your self from everything (just like in death). 

There's a book you can read by Krishnamurti called "Freedom from the Known". I think this book is more suited to how you relate to spirituality. It is the contemplative approach whereas Bhagat Kabir ji and other Guru Sahib present a meditative approach. Read more of their bani to understand the meditative approach. Lucky Singh ji and I discussed a shabad by Guru Arjan Dev ji on Hindu Sikh identity thread. That shabad mentions the dieing while living concept. You should start there.
Now I should warn you Krishnamurti heavily criticizes Gurus and spiritual men in his book. It is not for the weak-hearted Sikh.


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 7, 2012)

BhagatSingh said:


> Ambarsaria ji,
> _I don't know about Lala land but certainly close your eyes and free yourself from what you know._


_Bhagat Singh veer ji now I understand what is happening with you.

_

_You closed your eyes 
_
_freed yourself from what you know_
_You dump in Krishnamurti_
_You made sure that you take in all of his criticism of Sikh Gurus_
_I realize the balancing act you always perform to so called "think for both side"_

_Sorry brother, no dice._
_You can burn a copy of Krishnamurti for me if you can afford to buy one_

_Leaving clean clear waters of SGGS you want to drink from the cesspools of Hinduism, be my guest_
Sat Sri Akal.


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 7, 2012)

No, you really don't.
He criticized the whole Hindu Guru-Sikh (or Guru Shishya), Teacher-Disciple system. You did know that Hinduism works through and propagates itself through a Guru-Sikh system, right?

DELETED

Truth has many sides to it. The best way to look at someone's garden is to look at it as you walk around and see it from varying perspectices.

DELETED


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 7, 2012)

BhagatSingh said:


> No, you really don't.
> He criticized the whole Hindu Guru-Sikh (or Guru Shishya), Teacher-Disciple system. You did know that Hinduism works through and propagates itself through a Guru-Sikh system, right?


_Bhagat Singh ji I would have loved to see Gur Nanak Dev ji (as Guru, teacher,  Dah I do!) and __SGGS as my Guru (Teacher, Dah I do!).  What kind of garbage one needs to understand from such Krishnamurti's other than that these are fast food ways of munching rather than dig and do through SGGS yourself.  It is like pre-digested food that the new born chicks are fed by the birds.  This is not adult food for so called enlightened, for example like yourself and Amarjit Singh ji.  You are adults who can understand rather being given solutions.  Are you saying you cannot find stuff for spirituality in SGGS? Really!  That is so unique.

_Brother I don't like clutter.  Clutter lets you shift, keep moving from one philosophy/spirituality to another, to another, in the name of so called higher or impartial learning.  It is simply an ego stroking tool.

Brother don't confuse general interest books as spirituality for life.  Soon enough you are done with fad cycle you will pick up  another one.  Ask Amarjit Singh ji's about his merry go around ending up without any direction just to be Hindu-Sikh-Sanatan .....

Good luck to you in your ways.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 7, 2012)

Ambarsaria said:
			
		

> Are you saying you cannot find stuff for spirituality in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?





			
				BhagatSingh said:
			
		

> There's a book you can read by Krishnamurti called "Freedom from the Known". I think this book is more suited to how you relate to spirituality. It is the contemplative approach *whereas Bhagat Kabir ji and other Guru Sahib present a meditative approach. Read more of their bani to understand the meditative approach. Lucky Singh ji and I discussed a shabad by Guru Arjan Dev ji on Hindu Sikh identity thread. That shabad mentions the dieing while living concept. You should start there.*



No dialogue happens when we don't read posts carefully.


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 7, 2012)

BhagatSingh said:


> No dialogue happens when we don't read posts carefully.


_Bye brother, this stone too hard to take this kind of garbage in.  Try softer targets at spn, there are quite a few.

_Sat Sri Akal. peacesign
*
PS: * In case we forgotten,

*brain·wash·ing  <noscript><a target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/B05/B0574300">
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





</noscript>[breyn-wosh-ing, -waw-shing]  *
noun
any method of controlled systematic indoctrination, especially one based on repetition or confusion: brainwashing by TV commercials. 

(see this defined specific to this thread;  http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/38108-lessons-god-what-happens-when-we-10.html#post162269)


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## amarjit singh bamrah (Mar 7, 2012)

Veerji

Throughout the begining of creation many Avtaars have been born as Humans and will continue to take birth in future.


I wonder sometimes if we met Baba Nanak now in this modern Western influenced society,and he tried to tell us about what he taught many centuries ago.

About unconditional love and  that the only religion is love for the divine.
Not to speak bad about any one or any other religion.

what would our reaction be?

_*Man, who should cultivate his inherent loving nature, has become stony hearted.*_
_*To accomplish his desires, man should cultivate forbearance, love and compassion.*_
_*You cannot please God if you are full of envy, pride and ostentation.*_
_*God will respond only to unsullied Love and compassion.*_

*Proverb*


How would we accept his teachings.


*Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing.*

*(Speech is energy, the saints say what ever we utter happens and we have to reap the Karma of our actions.) *​*- Proverbs 12:19*​​


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## prakash.s.bagga (Mar 8, 2012)

BhagatSingh said:


> No, you really don't.
> He criticized the whole Hindu Guru-Sikh (or Guru Shishya), Teacher-Disciple system. You did know that Hinduism works through and propagates itself through a Guru-Sikh system, right?
> 
> BHAGAT SINGH Ji,
> ...


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## prakash.s.bagga (Mar 8, 2012)

amarjit singh bamrah said:


> Veerji
> 
> Throughout the begining of creation many Avtaars have been born as Humans and will continue to take birth in future.
> 
> ...


 

ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਣ ਪੁਕਾਰਨਿ ਪੋਥੀਆ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਸਭਿ ਕੂੜੁ ਗਾਲ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਹੋਛੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਅਪਾਰੁ ਭਗਤਾ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ॥ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਮੋਹੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਸਾਧੂ ਸੰਗਿ ਨਸੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਮੋਹਿ ਬਾਦਿ ਅਹੰਕਾਰਿ ਸਰਪਰ ਰੁੰਨਿਆ ॥ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਮੂਲਿ ਨਾਮ ਵਿਛੁੰਨਿਆ ॥੨॥ ਮੇਰੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਧਾਰਿ ਬੰਧਨਿ ਬੰਧਿਆ ॥ ਨਰਕਿ ਸੁਰਗਿ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਮਾਇਆ ਧੰਧਿਆ ॥੩॥ ਸੋਧਤ ਸੋਧਤ ਸੋਧਿ ਤਤੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿਆ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਨਾਹਿ ਸਰਪਰ ਹਾਰਿਆ ॥੪

Amarjeet Singh ji, how you would be taking the teachings from this sabad about the concept of AVTAR.....see the last line carefully.
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Harry Haller (Mar 8, 2012)

ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ सूही महला ५ ॥ Sūhī mėhlā 5. Soohee, Fifth Mehl:

ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਣ ਪੁਕਾਰਨਿ ਪੋਥੀਆ ॥ सिम्रिति बेद पुराण पुकारनि पोथीआ ॥ Simriṯ beḏ purāṇ pukāran pothī▫ā. The Simritees, the Vedas, the Puraanas and the other holy scriptures proclaim

ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਸਭਿ ਕੂੜੁ ਗਾਲ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਹੋਛੀਆ ॥੧॥ नाम बिना सभि कूड़ु गाल्ही होछीआ ॥१॥ Nām binā sabẖ kūṛ gālĥī hocẖẖī▫ā. ||1|| that without the Naam, everything is false and worthless. ||1||
ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਅਪਾਰੁ ਭਗਤਾ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ॥ नामु निधानु अपारु भगता मनि वसै ॥ Nām niḏẖān apār bẖagṯā man vasai. The infinite treasure of the Naam abides within the minds of the devotees.

ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਮੋਹੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਸਾਧੂ ਸੰਗਿ ਨਸੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ जनम मरण मोहु दुखु साधू संगि नसै ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Janam maraṇ moh ḏukẖ sāḏẖū sang nasai. ||1|| rahā▫o. Birth and death, attachment and suffering, are erased in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. ||1||Pause||
ਮੋਹਿ ਬਾਦਿ ਅਹੰਕਾਰਿ ਸਰਪਰ ਰੁੰਨਿਆ ॥ मोहि बादि अहंकारि सरपर रुंनिआ ॥ Mohi bāḏ ahaŉkār sarpar runni▫ā. Those who indulge in attachment, conflict and egotism shall surely weep and cry.

ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਮੂਲਿ ਨਾਮ ਵਿਛੁੰਨਿਆ ॥੨॥ सुखु न पाइन्हि मूलि नाम विछुंनिआ ॥२॥ Sukẖ na pā▫iniĥ mūl nām vicẖẖunni▫ā. ||2|| Those who are separated from the Naam shall never find any peace. ||2||
ਮੇਰੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਧਾਰਿ ਬੰਧਨਿ ਬੰਧਿਆ ॥ मेरी मेरी धारि बंधनि बंधिआ ॥ Merī merī ḏẖār banḏẖan banḏẖi▫ā. Crying out, "Mine! Mine!", he is bound in bondage.

ਨਰਕਿ ਸੁਰਗਿ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਮਾਇਆ ਧੰਧਿਆ ॥੩॥ नरकि सुरगि अवतार माइआ धंधिआ ॥३॥ Narak sur
ag avṯār mā▫i▫ā ḏẖanḏẖi▫ā. ||3|| Entangled in Maya, he is reincarnated in heaven and hell. 

||3||ਸੋਧਤ ਸੋਧਤ ਸੋਧਿ ਤਤੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿਆ ॥ सोधत सोधत सोधि ततु बीचारिआ ॥ Soḏẖaṯ soḏẖaṯ soḏẖ ṯaṯ bīcẖāri▫ā. Searching, searching, searching, I have come to understand the essence of reality.

ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਨਾਹਿ ਸਰਪਰ ਹਾਰਿਆ ॥੪॥ नाम बिना सुखु नाहि सरपर हारिआ ॥४॥ Nām binā sukẖ nāhi sarpar hāri▫ā. ||4|| Without the Naam, there is no peace at all, and the mortal will surely fail.


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## Harry Haller (Mar 8, 2012)

ਭੈਰਉ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ भैरउ महला ५ ॥ Bẖairo mėhlā 5. Bhairao, Fifth Mehl:

ਨਾਮੁ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਬੇਦ ਅਰੁ ਨਾਦ ॥ नामु हमारै बेद अरु नाद ॥ Nām hamārai beḏ ar nāḏ. The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is for me the Vedas and the Sound-current of the Naad.

ਨਾਮੁ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਪੂਰੇ ਕਾਜ ॥ नामु हमारै पूरे काज ॥ Nām hamārai pūre kāj. Through the Naam, my tasks are perfectly accomplished.

ਨਾਮੁ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਪੂਜਾ ਦੇਵ ॥ नामु हमारै पूजा देव ॥ Nām hamārai pūjā ḏev. The Naam is my worship of deities.

ਨਾਮੁ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ ॥੧॥ नामु हमारै गुर की सेव ॥१॥ Nām hamārai gur kī sev. ||1|| The Naam is my service to the Guru. ||1||

ਗੁਰਿ ਪੂਰੈ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਿਓ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ॥ गुरि पूरै द्रिड़िओ हरि नामु ॥ Gur pūrai ḏariṛa▫o har nām. The Perfect Guru has implanted the Naam within me.

My understanding is that with the Naam, one has no need for anything else, and indeed, anything else is merely an illusion that will not give you the true essence of Naam. 

Of course we must have respect for all religions, and only a fool would think that Sikhism is the only religion that delivers, however, to be a Doctor, one must apply oneself to a particular field, and excel in it, rather than dabble in many fields and be an expert in none

If the name, the naam, be Truth, then the truth that the perfect Guru has implanted in me can only be the voice of God within, it would be appear that this truth, this voice of God, essence of Creator is worth everything and from this truth springs forward the rituals and deities that many embrace as bigger than the source, the truth itself


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Mar 8, 2012)

> to be a Doctor, one must apply oneself to a particular field,


 
Veer Ji _You are not the doctor ,you are the patient,the doctrine you follow is your prescription_.The Guru is the Soul Doctor.


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## Harry Haller (Mar 8, 2012)

Scarlet Pimpernel said:


> Veer Ji _You are not the doctor ,you are the patient,the doctrine you follow is your prescription_.The Guru is the Soul Doctor.



Ok Spji, to use language that is consistent, if a patient wishes to be cured, they will normally consult a specialist and have a course of treatment, a prescription from that specialist. If the Guru is the soul doctor, and I am in need of a prescription, how many Doctors should I see? and should I take a prescription from each one?


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## prakash.s.bagga (Mar 8, 2012)

Scarlet Pimpernel said:


> Veer Ji _You are not the doctor ,you are the patient,the doctrine you follow is your prescription_.The Guru is the Soul Doctor.


 
Who can refuse that GuRu is not Doctor? Every one should be able to read and understand the prescription of GuRu ..DOCTOR.
This is the only purpose of sharing the views.
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 8, 2012)

harry haller said:


> Ok Spji, to use language that is consistent, if a patient wishes to be cured, they will normally consult a specialist and have a course of treatment, a prescription from that specialist. If the Guru is the soul doctor, and I am in need of a prescription, how many Doctors should I see? and should I take a prescription from each one?


My brothers Harry Haller ji and sp ji, I believe the doctor analogy is little Vedic derivative. This is like give/prescribe me something (or I prescribe for self), I take it and I get better. This analogy fails in reference to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I believe the only relationship I can sustain or understand in this context is Teacher (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji)/Student (Sikh). Most importantly we must recognize Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as a teacher and not a textbook, cookbook, book of pharmocology, soul recipes, etc. It really is a teacher which helps one use own brain to be levearged in understanding and learning.

Sat Sri Akal. icecreammunda


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Mar 8, 2012)

> how many Doctors should I see? and should I take a prescription from each one


 
Veer ji because you are feeling a little poorly it makes you see more than one doctor,prescription is Truth,Pharmacy is in you.I agree with Master Musketeer he is the Teacher and we the Student,Teachers also provide medicine if I remember rightly and some Students need it.


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## Harry Haller (Mar 8, 2012)

I think the key question is

 can one find enlightenment through several teachers/syllabuses simultaneously?


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## Harry Haller (Mar 8, 2012)

Scarlet Pimpernel said:


> Veer ji because you are feeling a little poorly it makes you see more than one doctor,prescription is Truth,Pharmacy is in you.



I have listened to many Doctors, and respect many Doctors, but only trust the knowledge and experience of one


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Mar 8, 2012)

There is only one teacher,there is only one subject,the schools are many so he is an Agenlcy Teacher.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Mar 8, 2012)

harry haller said:


> I think the key question is
> 
> can one find enlightenment through several teachers/syllabuses simultaneously?


 
It depends on the number of subjects you want to be enlightened.When the subject is only ONE and that is NAAM so you require only ONE TEACHER having perfect knowledge oof NAAM.

Second point of Consideration is that NAAM in Gurbanee is properly and very clearly is refered as MEDICINE(AUKHAD)...any one should get the meaning of the word AUKHAD from any dictionary.So if NAAM is a MEDICINE then there has to be prescrion for consuming this and this prescription is also being given by GuRu in SGGS.......

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Harry Haller (Mar 8, 2012)

Scarlet Pimpernel said:


> There is only one.



Try and be consistent Veerji, according to you, the Guru is the Doctor, by that analogy there are many Doctors, some of whom are not even qualified to practice, some of whom will just take your money and give you snake oil, and that very rare of creatures a Doctor who knows what he is doing and acts for the right reasons, although to be fair to Ambarsariaji, there are no Doctors in Sikhism, Sikhism is more about self help rather than relying on Doctors, so I guess that makes our Gurus surgeons


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 8, 2012)

harry haller said:


> I think the key question is
> 
> can one find enlightenment through several teachers/syllabuses simultaneously?


Harry Haller ji the question is quite bright.  wahmunda

The key issue is that if the fundamental learning is "One Truth", what does the syllabus say.  Furthermore you have a full right to question the charges from the school, qualifications of the teachers, references from previous students, and so on.  

For example Dehras, the Krishnamurtis, etc., so quickly will fall to the wayside.  The Snatans, Vedas, etc., will fall to the wayside as stated in the SGGS.  The teacher says you got to understand, you got to practice, you need to focus on understanding and not pens and pencils, etc.

Now judge for yourself.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Harry Haller (Mar 8, 2012)

Ambarsaria said:


> Harry Haller ji the question is quite bright.  wahmunda
> 
> The key issue is that if the fundamental learning is "One Truth", what does the syllabus say.  Furthermore you have a full right to question the charges from the school, qualifications of the teachers, references from previous students, and so on.
> 
> ...



If we stick with the teacher/student analogy, Guruji is the teacher, and the teaching is how to find the frequency of Creator, and then how to live by the qualities of Creator. Clearly there are different teaching styles, some teach using fear, some teach using a reward system, some teach by treating the student as stupid and encouraging a parroting system, I would like to think of Sikhism as for the mature student, teaching those that wish to learn, that are hungry for the learning. 

So where does that leave those that gain study from more than one teacher? As long as you are clear about what you are attempting to learn, I see no great problem. For instance I would not wish to have teaching from Guruji on cooking, for that I would see a cookery teacher, if I wished to learn meditation, provided it was for the purposes of clearing my mind, not educating it, I would seek guidance from a meditation teacher, If I wished to stroke my chakras, I would go to a chakra teacher, I am open minded about all these things, they all sound great! The danger, in my view, is when such instruction conflicts with my teaching from Guruji. If I want to learn to cook, I do not wish to enter into debate with my cookery teacher as to why aubergines may make the enlightenment journey easier, anymore than I wish to debate with my meditation teacher why meditation makes enlightenment easier, taken individually, all these things are great and interesting and deserve study if the passion is there, but as soon as there is conflict with what Guruji says, one has to bow down to the higher authority, if one were to say that all teachers and teaching styles, and even subject matter is identical, then that clearly cannot be correct, those taught by fear, those taught by reward and those taught through love cannot all share the same outlook or understanding. 

This then brings another question, consistency, if one is a student of many schools, clearly you cannot embrace each school of thought in its entirety, that would conflict, so you either have to take bits and pieces, at your discretion, which negates the need for a teacher, or spend each day as a different person, destroying whatever makes you, you. 

Just my thoughts


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 8, 2012)

harry haller said:


> If we stick with the teacher/student analogy, Guruji is the teacher, and the teaching is how to find the frequency of Creator, and then how to live by the qualities of Creator. Clearly there are different teaching styles, some teach using fear, some teach using a reward system, some teach by treating the student as stupid and encouraging a parroting system, I would like to think of Sikhism as for the mature student, teaching those that wish to learn, that are hungry for the learning.
> 
> So where does that leave those that gain study from more than one teacher? As long as you are clear about what you are attempting to learn, I see no great problem. For instance I would not wish to have teaching from Guruji on cooking, for that I would see a cookery teacher, if I wished to learn meditation, provided it was for the purposes of clearing my mind, not educating it, I would seek guidance from a meditation teacher, If I wished to stroke my chakras, I would go to a chakra teacher, I am open minded about all these things, they all sound great! The danger, in my view, is when such instruction conflicts with my teaching from Guruji. If I want to learn to cook, I do not wish to enter into debate with my cookery teacher as to why aubergines may make the enlightenment journey easier, anymore than I wish to debate with my meditation teacher why meditation makes enlightenment easier, taken individually, all these things are great and interesting and deserve study if the passion is there, but as soon as there is conflict with what Guruji says, one has to bow down to the higher authority, if one were to say that all teachers and teaching styles, and even subject matter is identical, then that clearly cannot be correct, those taught by fear, those taught by reward and those taught through love cannot all share the same outlook or understanding.
> 
> ...


Harry Haller veer ji great post.

In the above as underlined, you self answered the question about "Is Hindu/Sikh a valid Adherent?".



> http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/37952-is-hindu-sikh-a-valid-adherent.html



Rest of the stuff is common sense that is much lacking on followers of this Dehra, meditation, dream crowd which try to mix things up.  Mixing up is a clear reflection of their own created flaws where they are mixing specific and deep understanding endeavors with generally frivilous hallucinations, mind rinsing through chanting, seeking Darshan, etc.  This thread is full of such with some stubborn repeat offenders.  

I like raising hell like this as people can insult me, etc., but as long as it has some possible long term positive outcome for others, I feel it net-net positive.  I really don't count personally in all this.  I am "dead" while alive.

The medicine and treatment regimen described in your post is life changing.  Let us hope if one, two or three pick up on it.

Sat Sri Akal.  mundahug


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## Harry Haller (Mar 8, 2012)

Ambarsaria said:


> Harry Haller veer ji great post.
> 
> In the above as underlined, you self answered the question about "Is Hindu/Sikh a valid Adherent?".
> 
> ...



Veerji, 

If you draw a 6 on your hand, it looks like a 6, but for someone looking at it facing you, it looks like a 9. You can both argue till you are blue in the face, but nothing is going to change how this number looks to either of you, the truth is being able to see it written, or having faith in the author, who first wrote the 6, all we can do is find the original sketches and drafts that prove it was always going to be a 6, but of others are sure it is a 9, that is their right and their choice, I for one, would not waste my time and energy trying to convince someone who saw a 9, that it was an upside down 6, in fact, I would have empathy for them, as mentally, I can see what they think they can see, a 9!

We are all on different paths, and at different times, who knows, our path may lead us to see that it was a 6, or anothers path may lead them to confirm it was a 9, I do not think anyone has the right to grab someone by the arm and force them off a path, we both came to our conclusions in our own free will and in our own free time, I think everyone deserves that courtesy. 

However, as Sikhs, misinformation and short cuts should be exposed, our Gurus did this with humour, and sometimes sarcasm, they gently mocked, they clarified, but they always loved, I think in this spirit, we should defend what we to know to be right, not about the world, nor about the very subject of enlightenment, or even connection, but always on the subject of Sikh History, Sikh ideals and Sikh thinking, the matters of meditation, reincarnation, etc etc are not as important as recognising that the number one facet of being a Sikh is recognising that there are no short cuts, you either have understanding of what Guruji is trying to teach, or you do not.

What is Guruji trying to teach?

That the way to realise Creator is not mired in ritual, chanting, meditation, caste, previous lives, etc

you start with a clean sheet, and by your actions and thoughts you become who you are, some stay the same throughout life, some change on a daily basis,  but until you are able to connect with what the Creator is all about, and then live it, each day you live is pointless. 

That is my definition of the bottom line, I would welcome others


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## prakash.s.bagga (Mar 8, 2012)

HARRY HALLAR ji,

There can be any relationship of persons mind with NAAM of CREATOR.
Creator is not bound by any one relationship.What we shared is just one out of many relationships.
The best relationship is considered to be that of like HUSBAND (CREATOR) and Yourself as WIFE.If any one can achieve and maintain this relationship with Creator...One is done.
And just a point for your consideration JAPu of NAAM results in cntact with the CREATOR but SIMRAN brings you in relationship with CREATOR (like that of Husband and wife).That is why SIMRAN is considered as the highest state.
A point to be considered
Any rectification from your side is welcome.
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 8, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> HARRY HALLAR ji,
> 
> There can be any relationship of persons mind with NAAM of CREATOR.
> Creator is not bound by any one relationship.What we shared is just one out of many relationships.
> ...


Prakash.S.Bagga ji interesting thoughts. Thank you.

So what you value more, "NAAMu/understanding" versus "Relationship"? How is a relationship possible without understanding? I would reverse the order actually. Relationship is just a bye-product of understanding. Without understanding there can be no relationship of a pure heart. Sure fake stuff but that is not the question in hand.

By the way Prakash.S.Bagga ji, Naam is understanding and Simran is contemplation to get understanding. So contemplation/SImran is not an end point.

Any comments.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Mar 8, 2012)

Ambarsaria said:


> Prakash.S.Bagga ji interesting thoughts. Thank you.
> 
> So what you value more, "NAAMu/understanding" versus "Relationship"? How is a relationship possible without understanding? I would reverse the order actually. Relationship is just a bye-product of understanding. Without understanding there can be no relationship of a pure heart. Sure fake stuff but that is not the question in hand.
> 
> ...


 
You may have a different way of understanding.But the facts stated in Gurbanee can not be altered or changed.
What is stated is all depends on the grace of SATiGuRu.//Without having met SatiGuRu nothing is possible.
Prakash.s.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 8, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> You may have a different way of understanding.But the facts stated in Gurbanee can not be altered or changed.
> What is stated is all depends on the grace of SATiGuRu.//_Without having met SatiGuRu nothing is possible._
> Prakash.s.Bagga


Prakash.S.Bagga ji a comment on the underlined.

How did you appear in this world without meeting SATiGuRu?  Is that even possible?

Awal Allah Noor - Mohinder Singh Bhalla.      - YouTube

Sat Sri Akal.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Mar 8, 2012)

Ambarsaria said:


> Prakash.S.Bagga ji a comment on the underlined.
> 
> How did you appear in this world without meeting SATiGuRu? Is that even possible?
> 
> ...


 
NOt at all............

Then why we need a GuRu ?

Prakash.s.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 8, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> NOt at all............
> 
> Then why we need a GuRu ?
> 
> Prakash.s.Bagga


Prakash.S.Bagga ji just if one meets someone (say God/Creator) does not mean we understand who that is and all about them.

Guru (say Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) is needed to help understand one that is all around. Whether you feel you met, you did not meet, you want to meet, etc., has little bearing on living in knowing? This is what our Guru ji and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji emphasize as to see everywhere and understand as much as you can and live thereof.



> Enjoy the music from the land of our Gurujis irrespective of religion​


sain mushtaq by naeem jand part2.dat - YouTube​ 
More posted below at spn,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/punjabi/38035-sain-mushtaq-by-naeem-jand-series.html

Sat Sri Akal.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Mar 8, 2012)

Ambarsaria said:


> Prakash.S.Bagga ji just if one meets someone (say God/Creator) does not mean we understand who that is and all about them.
> 
> Guru (say Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) is needed to help understand one that is all around. Whether you feel you met, you did not meet, you want to meet, etc., has little bearing on living in knowing? This is what our Guru ji and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji emphasize as to see everywhere and understand as much as you can and live thereof.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for these musical moments.
But I surprise How anyone can know without meeting that.
Prakash.S.Bagga


----------



## Harry Haller (Mar 8, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> HARRY HALLAR ji,
> 
> There can be any relationship of persons mind with NAAM of CREATOR.
> Creator is not bound by any one relationship.What we shared is just one out of many relationships.
> ...



:interestedsingh:


----------



## Ambarsaria (Mar 8, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> The best relationship is considered to be that of like _HUSBAND (CREATOR) and Yourself as WIFE_.If any one can achieve and maintain this relationship with Creator...One is done.
> 
> Prakash.S.Bagga


Prakash.S.Bagga ji _would the relationship of Wife (CREATOR) and Yourself as HUSBAND also work or not?_ I suppose this will apply for the FEMALE God/Creator situations. When you are trying to define relationships without knowing, you really are creating a dilemma for self and limiting your ability to learn by associating ralationships.

By the way the _relationship/understanding and love of creator is rising and unconditional trajectory_ _(kind of Chardhi Kalaah)_ in Sikhism through Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, how could it be encapsualted by anything worldly which has whims and such.

In conclusion, the limits on getting closer to creator we place on our selves by limiting the limitless, by making finite out of infinite, creating sex of creator to be male or female, and so on. Brother Sikhism through Guru jis and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has no such limits and it is an ever enriching _*understand-marvel-live*_; _*understand-marvel-live*_; ........ series that continues throughout life.

Sat Sri akal.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Mar 8, 2012)

harry haller said:


> :interestedsingh:


 
Pl look the following sabad and give me your views

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਅਪਨੈ ਘਰਿ ਆਇਆ ਤਾ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਖੀਆ ਕਾਜੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥ ਖੇਲੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਮਨਿ ਅਨਦੁ ਭਇਆ ਸਹੁ ਵੀਆਹਣ ਆਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਕਾਮਣੀ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਹਮਰੈ ਘਰਿ ਆਇਆ ਜਗਜੀਵਨੁ ਭਤਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੁਆਰੈ ਹਮਰਾ ਵੀਆਹੁ ਜਿ ਹੋਆ ਜਾਂ ਸਹੁ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਤਾਂ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥ ਤਿਹੁ ਲੋਕਾ ਮਹਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਰਵਿਆ ਹੈ ਆਪੁ ਗਇਆ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੨॥ ਆਪਣਾ ਕਾਰਜੁ ਆਪਿ ਸਵਾਰੇ ਹੋਰਨਿ ਕਾਰਜੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਜਿਤੁ ਕਾਰਜਿ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਦਇਆ ਧਰਮੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੂਝੈ ਕੋਈ ॥੩॥ ਭਨਤਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਭਨਾ ਕਾ ਪਿਰੁ ਏਕੋ ਸੋਇ ॥ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇ ਸਾ ਸੋਹਾਗਣਿ ਹੋਇ ॥੪॥੧੦॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 351}

Prakash.S.Bagga


----------



## Ambarsaria (Mar 8, 2012)

My understanding in blue outside of quotes. 


prakash.s.bagga said:


> Pl look the following sabad and give me your views
> 
> ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਅਪਨੈ ਘਰਿ ਆਇਆ ਤਾ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਖੀਆ ਕਾਜੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥ ਖੇਲੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਮਨਿ ਅਨਦੁ ਭਇਆ ਸਹੁ ਵੀਆਹਣ ਆਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਕਾਮਣੀ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਹਮਰੈ ਘਰਿ ਆਇਆ ਜਗਜੀਵਨੁ ਭਤਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੁਆਰੈ ਹਮਰਾ ਵੀਆਹੁ ਜਿ ਹੋਆ ਜਾਂ ਸਹੁ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਤਾਂ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥ ਤਿਹੁ ਲੋਕਾ ਮਹਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਰਵਿਆ ਹੈ ਆਪੁ ਗਇਆ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੨॥ ਆਪਣਾ ਕਾਰਜੁ ਆਪਿ ਸਵਾਰੇ ਹੋਰਨਿ ਕਾਰਜੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਜਿਤੁ ਕਾਰਜਿ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਦਇਆ ਧਰਮੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੂਝੈ ਕੋਈ ॥੩॥ ਭਨਤਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਭਨਾ ਕਾ ਪਿਰੁ ਏਕੋ ਸੋਇ ॥ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇ ਸਾ ਸੋਹਾਗਣਿ ਹੋਇ ॥੪॥੧੦॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 351}
> 
> Prakash.S.Bagga


Some comments if helps,


```
[URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਆਸਾ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਆਸਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਹਲਾ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਮਹਲਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=੧"][COLOR=#0000ff]੧ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਆਸਾ"][COLOR=#0000ff]॥[/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਆਸਾ"]
आसा महला १ ॥ 
Āsā mėhlā 1. 
 
[/URL]
[URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਰਿ"][COLOR=blue]ਕਰਿ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਿਰਪਾ"][COLOR=blue]ਕਿਰਪਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਅਪਨੈ"][COLOR=blue]ਅਪਨੈ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਘਰਿ"][COLOR=blue]ਘਰਿ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਆਇਆ"][COLOR=blue]ਆਇਆ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਾ"][COLOR=blue]ਤਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਿਲਿ"][COLOR=blue]ਮਿਲਿ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਖੀਆ"][COLOR=blue]ਸਖੀਆ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਾਜੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਕਾਜੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਰਚਾਇਆ"][COLOR=blue]ਰਚਾਇਆ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਰਿ"][COLOR=blue]॥[/COLOR]
करि किरपा अपनै घरि आइआ ता मिलि सखीआ काजु रचाइआ ॥ 
Kar kirpā apnai gẖar ā▫i▫ā ṯā mil sakẖī▫ā kāj racẖā▫i▫ā. 
 
When by His Grace He came to my home, then my companions met together to celebrate my marriage. 
 
ਕਰਿ = ਕਰ ਕੇ। ਘਰਿ = ਘਰ ਵਿਚ, ਮੇਰੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ-ਘਰ ਵਿਚ। ਤਾ = ਤਦੋਂ {ਨੋਟ: ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ 'ਤਾ' ਦਾ ਭਾਵ ਸਮਝਣ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਪਹਿਲੀ ਤੁਕ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ 'ਜਦੋਂ' ਵਰਤੋ}। ਮਿਲਿ = ਮਿਲ ਕੇ। ਸਖੀਆ = ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਨੇ। ਕਾਜੁ = ਵਿਆਹ। ਕਾਜੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ = ਵਿਆਹ ਰਚਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਪਤੀ ਨਾਲ ਮੇਲ ਦੇ ਗੀਤ ਗਾਣੇ ਸ਼ੁਰੂ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤੇ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਪਤੀ ਦੀ ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਵਲ ਪਰਤ ਪਈਆਂ।
ਜਦੋਂ ਮੇਰਾ ਖਸਮ-ਪ੍ਰਭੂ (ਮੈਨੂੰ ਜੀਵ-ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਨੂੰ ਅਪਣਾ ਕੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਰਹਿਣ ਦਾ ਘਰ ਬਣਾ ਕੇ) ਆਪਣੇ ਘਰ ਵਿਚ ਆ ਟਿਕਿਆ, ਤਾਂ ਮੇਰੀਆਂ ਸਹੇਲੀਆਂ ਨੇ ਮਿਲ ਕੇ (ਜੀਭ, ਅੱਖਾਂ, ਕੰਨਾਂ ਆਦਿਕ ਨੇ ਰਲ ਕੇ) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਪਤੀ ਨਾਲ ਮੇਲ ਦੇ ਗੀਤ ਗਾਣੇ-ਸੁਣਨੇ ਸ਼ੁਰੂ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤੇ। 
[/URL]
```
_Came to the house by self grace, the friends organized a celebration_


```
[URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਖੇਲੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਖੇਲੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਦੇਖਿ"][COLOR=blue]ਦੇਖਿ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਨਿ"][COLOR=blue]ਮਨਿ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਅਨਦੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਅਨਦੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਭਇਆ"][COLOR=blue]ਭਇਆ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਹੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਸਹੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਵੀਆਹਣ"][COLOR=blue]ਵੀਆਹਣ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਆਇਆ"][COLOR=blue]ਆਇਆ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਖੇਲੁ"][COLOR=blue]॥੧॥ [/COLOR]
खेलु देखि मनि अनदु भइआ सहु वीआहण आइआ ॥१॥ 
Kẖel ḏekẖ man anaḏ bẖa▫i▫ā saho vī▫āhaṇ ā▫i▫ā. ||1|| 
 
Beholding this play, my mind became blissful; my Husband Lord has come to marry me. ||1|| 
 
ਖੇਲੁ = ਵਿਆਹ ਦਾ ਖੇਲ, ਵਿਆਹ ਦਾ ਚਾਉ-ਮਲ੍ਹਾਰ। ਦੇਖਿ = ਵੇਖ ਕੇ। ਮਨਿ = ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ॥੧॥
ਮੇਰਾ ਖਸਮ-ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਵੀਆਹਣ ਆਇਆ ਹੈ (ਮੈਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਚਰਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਜੋੜਨ ਆਇਆ ਹੈ)-ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਮਿਲਾਪ ਲਈ ਇਹ ਉੱਦਮ ਵੇਖ ਕੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਆਨੰਦ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ ॥੧॥ 
[/URL]
```
_Seeing the celebration felt happiness as though bridegroom came to wed_




```
[URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗਾਵਹੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਗਾਵਹੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗਾਵਹੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਗਾਵਹੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਾਮਣੀ"][COLOR=blue]ਕਾਮਣੀ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਬਿਬੇਕ"][COLOR=blue]ਬਿਬੇਕ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਬੀਚਾਰੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਬੀਚਾਰੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗਾਵਹੁ"][COLOR=blue]॥[/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗਾਵਹੁ"]
गावहु गावहु कामणी बिबेक बीचारु ॥ 
Gāvhu gāvhu kāmṇī bibek bīcẖār. 
 
So sing - yes, sing the songs of wisdom and reflection, O brides. 
 
ਕਾਮਣੀ = ਹੇ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਓ! ਹੇ ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀਓ! ਬਿਬੇਕ = ਪਰਖ, ਗਿਆਨ। ਬਿਬੇਕ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ = ਗਿਆਨ ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਖ਼ਿਆਲ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਪਤੀ ਨਾਲ ਡੂੰਘੀ ਸਾਂਝ ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਗੀਤ।
ਹੇ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਓ! (ਹੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਗਿਆਨ-ਇੰਦ੍ਰਿਓ! ਚੰਗੇ ਮੰਦੇ ਦੀ) ਪਰਖ ਦੀ ਵਿਚਾਰ (ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਗੀਤ) ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਗਾਵੋ (ਹੇ ਮੇਰੀ ਜੀਭ! ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਵਿਚ ਜੁੜ; ਤਾਕਿ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਵਲੋਂ ਹਟਣ ਦੀ ਸੂਝ ਆ ਜਾਏ। ਹੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਕੰਨੋ! ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਦੇ ਗੀਤ ਸੁਣਦੇ ਰਹੋ, ਤਾਂ ਜੁ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਸੁਣਨ ਦੀ ਬਾਣ ਹਟੇ)। [/URL]
```
_Sing oh cohorts sing the wisdom generating song_


```
[URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹਮਰੈ"][COLOR=blue]ਹਮਰੈ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਘਰਿ"][COLOR=blue]ਘਰਿ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਆਇਆ"][COLOR=blue]ਆਇਆ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਗਜੀਵਨੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਜਗਜੀਵਨੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਭਤਾਰੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਭਤਾਰੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=॥੧॥"][COLOR=blue]॥੧॥ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਰਹਾਉ"][COLOR=blue]ਰਹਾਉ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹਮਰੈ"][COLOR=blue]॥[/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹਮਰੈ"]
हमरै घरि आइआ जगजीवनु भतारु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ 
Hamrai gẖar ā▫i▫ā jagjīvan bẖaṯār. ||1|| rahā▫o. 
 
My spouse, the Life of the world, has come into my home. ||1||Pause|| 
 
ਜਗਜੀਵਨੁ = ਸਾਰੇ ਜਗਤ ਦੀ ਜ਼ਿੰਦਗੀ (ਦਾ ਆਸਰਾ)। ਭਤਾਰੁ = ਖਸਮ-ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
ਸਾਡੇ ਘਰ ਵਿਚ (ਮੇਰੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ-ਘਰ ਵਿਚ) ਉਹ ਖਸਮ-ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਆ ਵੱਸਿਆ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਸਾਰੇ ਜਗਤ ਦੀ ਜ਼ਿੰਦਗੀ (ਦਾ ਆਸਰਾ) ਹੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
[/URL]
```
_Sustainer protector of all has come to our house_


```
[URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰੂ"][COLOR=blue]ਗੁਰੂ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਦੁਆਰੈ"][COLOR=blue]ਦੁਆਰੈ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹਮਰਾ"][COLOR=blue]ਹਮਰਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਵੀਆਹੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਵੀਆਹੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਿ"][COLOR=blue]ਜਿ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੋਆ"][COLOR=blue]ਹੋਆ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਾਂ"][COLOR=blue]ਜਾਂ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਹੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਸਹੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਿਲਿਆ"][COLOR=blue]ਮਿਲਿਆ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਾਂ"][COLOR=blue]ਤਾਂ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਾਨਿਆ"][COLOR=blue]ਜਾਨਿਆ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰੂ"][COLOR=blue]॥[/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰੂ"]
गुरू दुआरै हमरा वीआहु जि होआ जां सहु मिलिआ तां जानिआ ॥ 
Gurū ḏu▫ārai hamrā vī▫āhu jė ho▫ā jāŉ saho mili▫ā ṯāŉ jāni▫ā. 
 
When I was married within the Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, I met my Husband Lord, and I came to know Him. 
 
ਗੁਰੂ ਦੁਆਰੈ = ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਦਰ ਤੇ (ਪੈ ਕੇ), ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਪਿਆਂ। ਜਾਂ = ਜਦੋਂ। ਤਾਂ = ਤਦੋਂ। ਜਾਨਿਆ = ਜਾਣ ਲਿਆ, ਪਛਾਣ ਲਿਆ, ਡੂੰਘੀ ਸਾਂਝ ਪਾ ਲਈ, ਪੂਰੀ ਸਮਝ ਆ ਗਈ।
ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਪਿਆਂ ਸਾਡਾ ਇਹ ਵਿਆਹ ਹੋਇਆ (ਗੁਰੂ ਨੇ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਪਤੀ ਨਾਲ ਜੋੜਿਆ), ਜਦੋਂ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਖਸਮ-ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਮਿਲ ਪਿਆ, ਤਦੋਂ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਸਮਝ ਪੈ ਗਈ- 
[/URL]
```
_The Union that happened at the doorstep of the creator, when met the husband so I understood_


```
[URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਿਹੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਤਿਹੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਲੋਕਾ"][COLOR=blue]ਲੋਕਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਹਿ"][COLOR=blue]ਮਹਿ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਬਦੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਸਬਦੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਰਵਿਆ"][COLOR=blue]ਰਵਿਆ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੈ"][COLOR=blue]ਹੈ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਆਪੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਆਪੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗਇਆ"][COLOR=blue]ਗਇਆ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਨੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਮਨੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਨਿਆ"][COLOR=blue]ਮਾਨਿਆ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਿਹੁ"][COLOR=blue]॥੨॥[/COLOR]
तिहु लोका महि सबदु रविआ है आपु गइआ मनु मानिआ ॥२॥ 
Ŧihu lokā mėh sabaḏ ravi▫ā hai āp ga▫i▫ā man māni▫ā. ||2|| 
 
The Word of His Shabad is pervading the three worlds; when my ego was quieted, my mind became happy. ||2|| 
 
ਤਿਹੁ = ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਹੀ। ਸਬਦੁ = ਜੀਵਨ-ਰੌ (ਹੋ ਕੇ)। ਰਵਿਆ = ਵਿਆਪਕ ਹੈ। ਆਪੁ = ਆਪਾ-ਭਾਵ, ਸੁਆਰਥ। ਮਾਨਿਆ = ਮੰਨ ਗਿਆ, ਗਿੱਝ ਗਿਆ ॥੨॥
ਕਿ ਉਹ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਜੀਵਨ-ਰੌ ਬਣ ਕੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਜਗਤ ਵਿਚ ਵਿਆਪਕ ਹੋ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ। ਮੇਰੇ ਅੰਦਰੋਂ ਆਪਾ-ਭਾਵ ਦੂਰ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ, ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨ ਉਸ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਪਤੀ ਦੀ ਯਾਦ ਵਿਚ ਗਿੱਝ ਗਿਆ ॥੨॥ 
[/URL]
```
_Those people imbued with the true words have ridden of the ego and established in the mind_

```
[URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਆਪਣਾ"][COLOR=blue]ਆਪਣਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਾਰਜੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਕਾਰਜੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਆਪਿ"][COLOR=blue]ਆਪਿ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਵਾਰੇ"][COLOR=blue]ਸਵਾਰੇ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੋਰਨਿ"][COLOR=blue]ਹੋਰਨਿ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਾਰਜੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਕਾਰਜੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨ"][COLOR=blue]ਨ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੋਈ"][COLOR=blue]ਹੋਈ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਆਪਣਾ"][COLOR=blue]॥[/COLOR]
आपणा कारजु आपि सवारे होरनि कारजु न होई ॥ 
Āpṇā kāraj āp savāre horan kāraj na ho▫ī. 
 
He Himself arranges His own affairs; His affairs cannot be arranged by anyone else. 
 
ਕਾਰਜੁ = ਕਾਜੁ, ਵਿਆਹ ਦਾ ਉੱਦਮ, ਮੇਲ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਬੰਧ। ਹੋਰਨਿ = ਕਿਸੇ ਹੋਰ ਪਾਸੋਂ।
ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਪਤੀ ਜੀਵ-ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਨਾਲ ਮਿਲਾਣ ਦਾ ਇਹ ਕੰਮ ਆਪਣਾ ਸਮਝਦਾ ਹੈ, ਤੇ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਇਸ ਕਾਰਜ ਨੂੰ ਸਿਰੇ ਚਾੜ੍ਹਦਾ ਹੈ, ਕਿਸੇ ਹੋਰ ਪਾਸੋਂ ਇਹ ਕੰਮ ਸਿਰੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਚਾੜ੍ਹਿਆ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ। 
[/URL]
```
_So completes own endeavor no one else can do so_

```
[URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਿਤੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਜਿਤੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਾਰਜਿ"][COLOR=blue]ਕਾਰਜਿ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਤੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਸਤੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸੰਤੋਖੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਸੰਤੋਖੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਦਇਆ"][COLOR=blue]ਦਇਆ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਧਰਮੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਧਰਮੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੈ"][COLOR=blue]ਹੈ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ"][COLOR=blue]ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਬੂਝੈ"][COLOR=blue]ਬੂਝੈ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੋਈ"][COLOR=blue]ਕੋਈ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਿਤੁ"][COLOR=blue]॥੩॥[/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਿਤੁ"]
जितु कारजि सतु संतोखु दइआ धरमु है गुरमुखि बूझै कोई ॥३॥ 
Jiṯ kāraj saṯ sanṯokẖ ḏa▫i▫ā ḏẖaram hai gurmukẖ būjẖai ko▫ī. ||3|| 
By the affair of this marriage, truth, contentment, mercy and faith are produced; but how rare is that Gurmukh who understands it! ||3|| 
 
ਜਿਤੁ ਕਾਰਜਿ = ਜਿਸ ਕਾਜ ਦੀ ਰਾਹੀਂ, ਜਿਸ ਵਿਆਹ ਦੀ ਰਾਹੀਂ, ਜਿਸ ਮੇਲ ਦੀ ਬਰਕਤਿ ਨਾਲ। ਹੈ = ਪੈਦਾ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ ॥੩॥
ਇਸ ਮੇਲ ਦੀ ਬਰਕਤਿ ਨਾਲ (ਜੀਵ-ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ) ਸੇਵਾ ਸੰਤੋਖ ਦਇਆ ਧਰਮ ਆਦਿਕ ਗੁਣ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਇਸ ਭੇਤ ਨੂੰ ਉਹੀ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਸਮਝਦਾ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਸਨਮੁਖ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ ॥੩॥ [/URL]
```
_Endeavors that result in truth, contentment, compassion and pious ways, only few so facing the creator realize_


```
[URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਭਨਤਿ"][COLOR=blue]ਭਨਤਿ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨਾਨਕੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਨਾਨਕੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਭਨਾ"][COLOR=blue]ਸਭਨਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਾ"][COLOR=blue]ਕਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪਿਰੁ"][COLOR=blue]ਪਿਰੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਏਕੋ"][COLOR=blue]ਏਕੋ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸੋਇ"][COLOR=blue]ਸੋਇ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਭਨਤਿ"][COLOR=blue]॥[/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਭਨਤਿ"]
भनति नानकु सभना का पिरु एको सोइ ॥ 
Bẖanaṯ Nānak sabẖnā kā pir eko so▫e. 
Says Nanak, that Lord alone is the Husband of all. 
 
ਭਨਤਿ = ਆਖਦਾ ਹੈ। ਪਿਰੁ = ਖਸਮ।
ਨਾਨਕ ਆਖਦਾ ਹੈ-(ਭਾਵੇਂ ਜੀਕਰ) ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਹੀ ਸਭ ਜੀਵ-ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਦਾ ਪਤੀ ਹੈ, 
[/URL]
```
_Nanak says, only one custodian of all_


```
[URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਿਸ"][COLOR=blue]ਜਿਸ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨੋ"][COLOR=blue]ਨੋ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨਦਰਿ"][COLOR=blue]ਨਦਰਿ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਰੇ"][COLOR=blue]ਕਰੇ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਾ"][COLOR=blue]ਸਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸੋਹਾਗਣਿ"][COLOR=blue]ਸੋਹਾਗਣਿ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੋਇ"][COLOR=blue]ਹੋਇ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਿਸ"][COLOR=blue]॥੪॥੧੦॥[/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਿਸ"]
जिस नो नदरि करे सा सोहागणि होइ ॥४॥१०॥ 
Jis no naḏar kare sā sohagaṇ ho▫e. ||4||10|| 
 
She, upon whom He casts His Glance of Grace, becomes the happy soul-bride. ||4||10|| 
 
ਨਦਰਿ = ਕਿਰਪਾ ਦੀ ਦ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟੀ, ਮੇਹਰ ਦੀ ਨਿਗਾਹ। ਸੋਹਾਗਣਿ = ਚੰਗੇ ਭਾਗਾਂ ਵਾਲੀ, ਖਸਮ ਵਾਲੀ ॥੪॥੧੦॥
(ਫਿਰ ਭੀ) ਜਿਸ ਉਤੇ ਮੇਹਰ ਦੀ ਨਿਗਾਹ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ (ਜਿਸ ਦੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਆ ਕੇ ਪਰਗਟ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ) ਉਹੀ ਭਾਗਾਂ ਵਾਲੀ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ ॥੪॥੧੦॥
[/URL]
```
_One so blissfully looked at is the fortunate one_



> *ESSENCE:* Guru Nanak Dev ji liken and describe in this sabad the joy of acquaintance with the creator. He likens it in parts to the joyous environment of bride's house in anticipation. The singing of virtues and truth.
> 
> Self grace brings the creator's acquaintance, so imbues minds as ego is rid. Such only through the one creator and by such. A few realize such goings on that demonstrate truth, contentment, compassion and pious ways.
> 
> Guru ji conclude there being only one such creator and one in gaze of such is fortunate.


All errors are mine and I stand corrected.

Sat Sri Akal.

*PS:* For Prakash.S.Bagga ji in case he wants to interpret Kajal/Bride to be himself and Salman Khan to be God/Creator metaphorically speaking,

*Sajan Ji Ghar Aaye - YouTube*

No offense just we need to lighten up and give up on superficial associations as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is incredibly truth centric with lot of context and metphoric usage and brilliant poetic renditions. We can not take a sabad to establish that it creates "Husband/creator" and "wife/us" relationship; or that God/Creator is finite and of form; etc.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Mar 9, 2012)

Ambarsaria said:


> My understanding in blue outside of quotes.
> Some comments if helps,
> 
> 
> ...


 
Well I do enjoy such songs .Thanks

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## prakash.s.bagga (Mar 9, 2012)

By distoting the meanings of Gurbanee words nothing good can be achieved.There is rather damage to the whole message of the sabad in this way.
On one side we all agree that Gurbanee messages are for understanding of common persons and have been presented such in a stlye with witch common person can grasp the essence of the message.
By giving all together new meanings to the words which have no relevence I dont understand what we intend to achieve.

For example...................
We can see that Creator being GENDERLESS there is no justification of referering as HE or HIS.

If we are given to understand the meaning of the GHAR as HOUSE...Which house/

The word TIHu LOKA is the reference for three worlds rather than for persons.

The proper meaning of the word PIRu is HUSBAND  not CUSTODIAN

The meaning of the word SOHAGANi is Fortunate Bride  not simple Fortunate.

The above observations is related to the meanings of the sabad of above messages.

One may always reject ..the most easy job to do .
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 9, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> _By distoting the meanings of Gurbanee words nothing good can be achieved._


Prakash.S.Bagga ji stop talking basically garbage.  When ever someone is giving their understanding, that is what it is.  Understanding.  Do you understand the difference between translation and understanding?

Give us your understanding of the sabad, not literals.  Are you saying Guru ji claimed to be physically a bride in waiting in this sabad?  If you think that, that is a distortion.

If you reject the Guru ji's _way of illustrating concepts and truths_ trough metaphors, commonly understood events and activities, then you cannot understand SGGS.  You forever will be imprisoned in your literal/grammar ways.  Literals are not understanding, they are translation.  Understanding is reading and getting to the message.

For once give us understanding of a complete sabad versus this word or that word comments.  Professor Sahib Singh has done and explained the key words already, we don't need you for that.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Harry Haller (Mar 9, 2012)

I think, like the many mentions of Hindu Gods/Goddesses, the point of using marriage as a metaphor is a reference point for people that would understand the true meaning of the metaphor. 

Elsewhere in the SGGS much more definitive statements are given about this relationship, those I can relate to better, but there were clearly people that could take understanding in this fashion.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Mar 9, 2012)

Ambarsaria said:


> Prakash.S.Bagga ji stop talking basically garbage. When ever someone is giving their understanding, that is what it is. Understanding. Do you understand the difference between translation and understanding?
> 
> Give us your understanding of the sabad, not literals. Are you saying Guru ji claimed to be physically a bride in waiting in this sabad? If you think that, that is a distortion.
> 
> ...


 
Dear AMBARSARIA Ji,
I believe you are in a respectable position in SPN.You should take care of your laguage .You could have simply said this is rejected what is wrong.
This is because you have no right to make judjments what others present.
I think this we shared earlier also.
I find even you dont follow what you say.If you follow SAHib Singh ji s interpretation then let this be presented as such.What is wrong there?
I dont think that here any one is required to write to your unknown requirement and gratification.
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Mar 9, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> Dear AMBARSARIA Ji,
> I believe you are in a respectable position in SPN.You should take care of your laguage .You could have simply said this is rejected what is wrong.
> _Prakash.S.Bagga ji I don't really care as you do not put the effort to share in detail.  Is it too much to ask to share your understanding as you keep asking others to do it all the time?_
> 
> ...


Sat Sri Akal.


----------

