# What Is The Role Of Sants In The Khalsa Panth?



## sunsingh (Jun 6, 2008)

Unfortunately, these days people keep saying that the only sant is Guru Granth Sahib ji, despite the fact that Gurbani calls the individuals Bhagat Prahlaad ji and Bhagat Kabir ji as sants. It's crystal clear that sants exist from Gurbani, yet people keep lying about it (or haven't read Gurbani and just keep promoting the ideology that they have been taught). It's extremely disrespectful to Gurbani. 


Will post an article series by Yuktanand Singh that was originally posted on Sikhnet.

*Role of the Sangat and Sant in the panth: **
Summary of Article (below)*
Section I 

An introduction to why meeting a Gurmukh is so important and what is the significance of Sat Sangat. In Gurbani, Sangat is listed as essential to living normal life as a human. Sat Sangat is just as important as reading Gurbani, because it transforms our heart so that we can truly understand the message of Gurbani. 

Is the Sangat working for us in this sense? If not, why not? Do we understand what Sat Sangat means? Does a crowd of people like us represent Sat Sangat? Does the company of others just like us, adequately fulfill all the conditions of being in the Sadh Sangat? In other words, what is the role of a Sadh or a Sant in Sikh Panth? 

Section II 

The meaning of Sadh or Sant: A Sikh Saint or Sant is someone who has achieved spiritual perfection and mastery over the personal self through Guru's mercy. A Sant is an extremely rare soul. But this should not discourage us, confuse us, or cloud our understanding that Sant is the model of a perfect Sikh, the person that Gurbani urges us to become. A Sant is someone who is devoted only to God and always lives in God's presence. 

In an apparent effort to save us from the charlatans, our scholars shroud and suppress our need to adore perfect Gursikhs as our role models, by distorting the meaning in Gurbani. However, the institution of Sangat, the Panj Piyare, and the rules of the Khalsa Panth, eliminate all danger from impostors. 

Those who claim to be a Guru or a Sant, leading the Sikhs away from mainstream Panth, are the ones we need to worry about. Additionally, we must avoid those teachers who disregard the Rehit prescribed by the tenth Master. Today's Sikh Sant is a Gursikh who keeps the Rehit of Khalsa, and someone who would not lead people into joining a 'Jatha' or a 'Dera' and thus, would not engage in fragmentation of the mainstream Sangat. 

Section III 

How is a Sant produced? We stay oblivious towards the essence, being busy all our life mistaking the shell for the kernel. Except for that rare individual called Sant, we all vacillate, and thus, we remain imperfect and keep falling off the path. Those rare individuals who seek the kernel, the essence, and through Guru's mercy, never turn their attention away from it, become perfect and they are known as a Sant. Being in dust from the feet of Sat Sangat, we can learn how to maintain a balance on this path. 

Judging by the numerous references to Sant it should be obvious to us that an insight into its meaning, and more importantly, its application is absolutely vital to our understanding of Gurmat and to succeed as a Sikh. The terms, Sikh, Gursikh, Brahmgyani, Gurmukh, Jan or HariJan, Mahapurush, Sadh, and Sant, are the names given to Sikhs at various spiritual stages. The Sant is a sacred and supreme state recognized within the Panth. 

Section IV 

How do we find a Sant? Since the establishment of Sat Sangat, we no longer wander in search of such an individual and we no longer follow someone who claims to be a Sant. Sadh Sangat is the place to be. Nevertheless, we must have a burning desire to be uplifted through company of such Gursikhs. 

Before we can solve our internal problems, we need to remedy our lack of faith in the Panth, its garden, Sat Sangat, and its fruit, the Sant. We may sing and read Gurbani all our life, but without faith, our inner progress remains stunted. 

We must help each other in the Sangat by being absorbed in Gurbani with a sincere desire to be uplifted by the Sangat. Sadh Sangat or company of perfect Sikhs is essential. Just as, one lamp lights another. But there is no need to worship such Sikhs. The mere sight of a Sant is uplifting. But first, we need that burning desire to see them. Only then, can we benefit from their company or recognize them. 

Section V 

If we continue to live as if this goal is unreachable and disregard seeking company of such Sikhs, then, either Gurbani has failed us or we have failed Gurbani. Our faith in Gurbani is valid only if we have a yearning and a hope to meet a perfect Gursikh, sometime soon, within our lifetime. Guru Ji promises that there is always a Sant living somewhere in this world.

Sant is our role model, a testimony to the ultimate triumph of the Guru. Coming to Sangat with a desire to see such a Gursikh is the road towards spiritual awakening. The Shabads regarding the qualities of Sant, as one example given, should be studied carefully.

Guru Nanak introduced a unique method to liberate us en masse: Sat Sangat generated with Gurbani, augmented with music and singing from the heart. Kirtan of GurShabd or God's Word, in Sadh Sangat can gradually, or instantly, convert ordinary masses into Saints. However, a multitude joined for singing Gurbani, but lacking faith in the outcome of Sangat, succeeds in creating only, a multitude singing Gurbani. Let us never confuse the two as the same.

Section VI

The formula: "Meditate upon the formless God, connect with the Shabad, and seek the glorious sight of the Khalsa" needs to be followed thoroughly, with full faith and conviction. A Sant in the Sikh Panth today would keep the Rehit prescribed by the tenth Master, would dislike being called a Sant or a Guru, and would never lead the Sikhs away from mainstream Sangat into some eccentric group.

These are some important qualities of a perfect Gursikh. Sangat of Guru Khalsa or such perfect Sikhs, and submitting to the Panj Piyare is the foundation of Sikh Panth. Spiritual words of Sri Naranjan Singh Ji on this subject are recorded in this section.

Saints are the only humans truly alive in this world. The rest of us make up the bulk of Sikh Panth. Their company enlivens us. Sant is the lifeblood on Panth. God hides Himself in a Sant's heart. Guru Ji says, "The sole purpose of a Sant coming into this world is that we remember Naam in their company."

End of summary
---


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## sunsingh (Jun 6, 2008)

*Detail explanation of Sant and Bramgyani: " Written by Yuktanand singh. *

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! 
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!! 

Sadh Sangat and Shabad Guru, these two are important pillars of the Panth. Guru Ji has said, "Have friendship with a Gurmukh, and set your heart on the true Guru" (1421:5). This is our staple in our spiritual journey on this earth. These days, we have the Shabad as our Guru, but we seem to be losing the art of Sadh Sangat. So, here is an article on this difficult and touchy subject. 


Please excuse its length. It is divided into six sections. It is difficult to be cognizant of various contentions and still keep it short and free of redundancy. An effort is made to keep it within the tenets of Gurmat. Please offer correction of mistakes. 

Section I 

During the time of Guru Nanak, there was a Gurmukh who, in his Dharamsal, would serve every holy man passing through his village. He asked all these holy men the same question, "What is the benefit of meeting or serving the Sant or a Sadhu?" Everyone said that one is blessed with happiness, riches, health, long life, children, etc. but being a Gurmukh, he was not satisfied with their answer. 

One day he met Guru Nanak and asked him this question. Guru Nanak, instead of explaining it, told him to go in the jungle early in the morning, sit below a certain tree and repeat 'Waheguru' for some time. The Gurmukh did exactly as he was told. He noticed a pair of crows sitting on the tree. While he was sitting there they had transformed into white cranes. But he felt that he still did not receive the answer to his question. So Guru Nanak told him to repeat the same the next day. 

Next day he noticed that these white cranes turned into swans. He still did not see the answer to his question. So Guru Ji told him to go back. Next morning, while sitting and reciting 'Waheguru' he observed that pair of swans transform into humans. They came and sat close to him. 

Gurmukh asked them the question also. The pair explained that they were born as crows but upon meeting the Gurmukh, they became cranes, upon meeting him again, they became swans, and then humans. Upon meeting a Sadhu, within the course of three days they were blessed with what would have otherwise taken several lifetimes. 

(The above was paraphrased from 'Divine Mystic Reflections on Gurmat' p. 183) 

Recently, while strolling in a state of spiritual reflection, I saw a pair of crows, and I remembered the incident above. As I approached the crows they flew away the instant they saw me. But they soon returned. Still as crows. 

What are the lessons to be learned here? Here are some choices: 

1. Such supernatural phenomena occurred only during the time of the Gurus, not today. 
2. The pair of crows that returned could be a different pair, not the same that flew away. 
3. I am not a Gurmukh. Therefore, it was foolish of me to expect similar results. 
4. Sitting early in the morning and repeating 'Waheguru' would yield a better outcome. 
5. The actual process is much subtler than how it is symbolically presented in those books. 
6. Meeting Guru Nanak accelerated the process, so that the Gurmukh learns the lesson quickly. 
7. The desire to meet a Gurmukh had turned this Sikh into a Gurmukh, worthy of Darshan himself. 
8. Spiritual people teach by example and they avoid arguments and elaborate explanations. 
9. Before the advent of Sangat, Dharamsals and Teerath (pilgrimage) facilitated meeting holy people. 
10. Truth is always the same. Thus, regardless, the lesson applies to us just as much today as it did then. 

In my opinion, the correct choice is all of the above, except the first one. Let us see why meeting a Gurmukh is so important and what is the significance of Sat Sangat. 

Sikh Panth is a living Panth. Do we understand what makes it a living path; is it the ordinary Sikhs or a Gurmukh like the one in the episode above? What makes this Panth different and superior than all the religions? Which ingredients assure its survival, undiluted and unadulterated, for the future generations? Most of us would say, Gurbani. But in my opinion, it is the implementation of Gurbani. Not to mention the Khalsa Rehit, but that is a separate subject. 

Gurbani lists Sangat as essential to living a normal life as a human (427:6). Sat Sangat is just as important as reading Gurbani, because it transforms our heart so that we can truly understand the message of Gurbani (1316:6-. We need to examine ourselves: is the Sangat working for us in this sense? If not, why not? Do we understand what Sat Sangat means? Does a crowd of people like us represent Sat Sangat? Does the company of others just like us, adequately fulfill all the conditions of being in the Sadh Sangat? In other words, what is the role of a Sadh or a Sant in Sikh Panth?


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## pk70 (Jun 6, 2008)

Quote"Do we understand what Sat Sangat means? 

*Sat sangat is`an environment where Gursikh gets drowned in Guru shabad; to be saadh is the aim of the Gursikh while living right where Maya plays horrible game, Gursikh has Guru Shabad, there is no need left to find Sant, those who do, seldom return "home=nijh ghar". Here is definition of your question
* *ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਕੈਸੀ ਜਾਣੀਐ ॥[/FONT]*
*ਜਿਥੈ ਏਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਖਾਣੀਐ ॥*
*GGSJI 72
**[/FONT]*


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## Archived_member2 (Jun 7, 2008)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all!

Quote from PK70 Jee " . . . to be saadh is the aim of the Gursikh while living right where Maya plays horrible game, . . ."
O Really. Why have so-called Gursikhs become Grahasthee instead? Please explain. 
Also, provide a reference from the true Gurus that confirms this aim of the Gursikh. I will be grateful.

Quote "Gursikh has Guru Shabad, there is no need left to find Sant, . . ."
Gurdev is suggesting all to sing in the company of Saints? Is that possible without meeting Saints?
Please listen. Gurdev is singing.
sMq jnW kI DUiV inq bWCih nwmu scy kw ghxw ]3]
sNq jnW kI DUiV inq bWCih nwmu scy kw ghxw ]3]
sant janaaN kee Dhoorhi nit baaNchhehi naamu sachay kaa gahnaa. ||3|| SGGS Ang 109 

Quote "those who do, seldom return 'home=nijh ghar'."
But Gurdev is saying that without meeting the Saint one does not get it. Why?


Balbir Singh


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jun 7, 2008)

who is a saint?


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## Archived_member2 (Jun 7, 2008)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Amarsanghera Jee!

Quote "who is a saint?"
I have heard a story of a person who used to watch Raamleelaa every day. After the show one day he asked his brother "Who was the Seetaa?"

I hope Sikhs listen the true Gurus properly and do not need to ask such questions.

Please do not let Baabaas influence your mind that there is no Saint on this earth or no one need a Saint.


Balbir Singh


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## pk70 (Jun 7, 2008)

amarsanghera said:


> who is a saint?



*Am{censored}nghera ji,*
*People who do not understand vast application of Sadh in context of spiritual pursuit how can you get idea from them about Sant.*
*Here is a meaning of Sant interpreted by Guru Ji himself*
ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੫ ॥ ਜਿਨਾ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਨ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾਂ ਮਨਿ ਮੰਤੁ ॥ ਧੰਨੁ ਸਿ ਸੇਈ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਪੂਰਨੁ ਸੋਈ ਸੰਤੁ ॥੧॥ (GGS 319)
Slok 5th Guru. Who with every breath and morsel of theirs, forget not God's Name and within whose mind is this spell, they alone are the blessed and they alone are the perfect saints, O Nanak. (Tr by Manmohan singh) 

*Sant**=  Because of being imbued  always with Lord’s love as interpreted by Guru ji,so  he/she conquers vices, stays above depravity, iniquity, wickedness and corruption, revenge, jealousy, beguiling habits, quagmire of ego- iceberg etc and always remains only imbued with love of  Parbrahm.( Bhai Veer Singh “SGGSKP-95)*

*Here is Sadh described by well known and virtuous Bhai Veer Singh and Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha*
*Sadh*= *Lover of Akaalpurakh (Bhia Veer Singh Sri Guru Granth Sahib Kosh )*
*Sadh= Virtuous, devoted to well being for others, Holy man, pious,( Bhai Kahan Singh –Mahan Kosh *
ਮਨੁ ਅ*ਸਾਧੁ* ਸਾਧੈ ਜਨੁ ਕੋਇ *॥**The mind is uncontrollable; rare are those who subdue it and keep in control.** (GGS 159) So Sadh is him/her who has kept mind in control literally from all kind of vices and negative primal forces.*
ਛਾਇਆ ਰੂਪੀ ਸਾਧੁ ਹੈ ਜਿਨਿ ਤਜਿਆ ਬਾਦੁ ਬਿਬਾਦੁ  (1376)( Kabir Ji)
*Obviously one who doesn’t argue on idiotic and unnecessarily issues, remain indifferent to negative effects of Maya etc.( Bhai Veer Singh**)*

*So please feel free to ask any question in this context.*


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jun 8, 2008)

balbir ji

who was Ram and who was Seeta?

were they the actors in the play?

Quote
<I hope Sikhs listen the true Gurus properly and do not need to ask such questions.

Please do not let Baabaas influence your mind that there is no Saint on this earth or no one need a Saint.>

Quote


Do Saints carry some kind of id proof?

From where can someone get this id?


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jun 8, 2008)

pk70 ji

thank you for providing the quotes

i have another question:

"is Saint human?"


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## Archived_member2 (Jun 8, 2008)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Amarsanghera Jee!

Quote "who was Ram and who was Seeta?"
They are in the present also and be truth in the future too.
Seetaa is every form of the material world, made of elements including earth.
Raam is God's activity in each form.

Quote "were they the actors in the play?"
The spiritual essence of Raamleelaa is also beyond the drama played and organized on a stage. 
Raam is the actor. Seetaa is the role.

Quote "Do Saints carry some kind of id proof?"
False Saints love to wear a mask, id proof.
True Saints do not.

Quote "From where can someone get this id?"
Everybody has the quality of becoming a Saint. The first step is he needs to receive the true Naam Simran by the Grace of God. 


Balbir Singh


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## sunsingh (Jun 8, 2008)

Section II 

The meaning of Sadh or Sant: The English word 'Saint' does not mean the same as the 'Sant' in Gurbani. The former commonly means someone canonized by the church or the Vatican, while a Sikh Saint or Sant is someone who has achieved spiritual perfection and mastery over the personal self through Guru's mercy. Being the most humble person on earth, a Sant lives without any regard to recognition by people or by a religious body. 

A Sant is an extremely rare soul (1123:3). This should not discourage us, confuse us, or cloud our understanding that Sant is the model of a perfect Sikh, the person that Gurbani urges us to become. As Guru Ji says, "The season comes over and over, but a seed germinates only if it were whole" (468:17), in order to understand Gurmat properly, we must remember that Sikh Panth is an inner journey, a path of Bhakti or Divine love. Without this insight, we can gain only a fragmented understanding of Gurmat. 

A Sant is someone who is devoted only to God and always lives in God's presence. Gurbani emphasizes upon company of a Sant as an essential, so we can learn the correct way (e.g., 999:12, 622:1, 610:7-12). Obviously, these verses are of little value to those who are not mystically inclined, and most people are not. To them, Sant is, at best, an idyllic dream of perfection, a state unattainable in the real world. It is difficult to interpret Gurmat and make it palatable to the masses as well. 

Panth thrives only on account of those few Gursikhs who quietly practice the edict 'Guru Granth and Guru Panth' in the real sense. Others attempt to reinterpret Gurbani to make it fit us just as we are, as if we, the ordinary and ignorant Sikhs constitute 'Guru Panth' and that we do not need to seek someone better and more advanced than us. As a result, instead of aspiring to realize these supreme goals, seeking and respecting our venerated Sikhs, and striving to follow Gurbani as it was meant to be followed, we have succeeded only in lowering its high standards down to the level of our own mediocrity and stolidity. For example, we delegate the recital of our Guru's Bani to paid singers and CD players. Then we wonder what went wrong. This is sad. 

Our greatest foes are not outside. They are living among us. At one extreme are those teachers who misrepresent Gurmat. In an apparent effort to save us from the charlatans, they shroud and suppress our need to adore perfect Gursikhs as our role models, by distorting the meaning in Gurbani. At the other extreme, people revere some individuals as a Guru, when Guru Ji makes it clear that only Shabad, not a person, is the Guru. We also see people creating division in the Sangat, on the basis of which Sant which Jatha or which Dera is genuine. Such acts should be declared off limits in the Panth, because all such acts create splinter groups, destroying our unity. Panth is meant to be a family of humans following one God under the umbrella of Gurbani and Sadh Sangat, not under some person or some religion. 

So, what would a Sant look like today? With the institution of Sangat, the Panj Piyare, and with the rules laid down for the Khalsa Panth, if followed correctly, Guru Ji has eliminated all danger from impostors. We submit only to the Panj Piyare in the physical form of the Guru, Guru Granth Ji in the spiritual form, and we seek the company of a Sant in the Sangat, not in someone who claims to be a Sant. Those who claim to be a Guru or a Sant, leading the Sikhs away from mainstream Panth, are the ones we need to worry about. Additionally, we must avoid those teachers who disregard the Rehit prescribed by the tenth Master. Today's Sikh Sant is a Gursikh who keeps the Rehit of Khalsa, and someone who would not lead people into joining a 'Jatha' or a 'Dera' and thus, would not engage in fragmentation of the mainstream Sangat. 

It is imperative that every Sikh learns to be responsible and not promote someone living as, a Sant. As we know, a "Puran Gursikh" (perfect Sikh) would be an acceptable designation of a Gursikh living today whom we may respect and revere. Ignoring this simple but important rule is, in a way, defiance of the institution of the Panj Piyare. Such acts contradict Guru Ji's goal to eliminate our differences and to unite us, nay, to unite the entire world some day.


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## sunsingh (Jun 8, 2008)

Section III 

How is a Sant produced? Sri Naranjan Singh Ji used to say that, just as an almond has a kernel and a shell, the same way, Naam (Waheguru hidden inside everyone and everywhere) is the kernel, everything else (including religion, theology, and philosophy) is just the shell. 

Only the moments lived with this truth in our heart are worthwhile. Those rare individuals who seek the kernel, the essence, and through Guru's mercy, never turn their attention away from it, become perfect and they are known as a Sant (319:18, 1425:2-3). 

All our acts, breathing, sitting, getting up and taking bath during the Amrit Vela, Simran, Nitnem, putting food in our mouth, thinking, interaction with others, experiencing pleasure or pain, everything is judged in the light of whether we have been true to this eternal law of Naam (463:16). However, mostly we stay oblivious towards it, being busy all our life mistaking the shell for the kernel. Except for that rare individual called Sant, we all vacillate, and thus, we remain imperfect and keep falling off the path. Being in dust from the feet of Sat Sangat, we can learn how to maintain a balance on this path (1263:7, 1065:2). 

Unlike any other scripture, Gurbani, page after page, dwells upon the kernel. Gurbani does not belong to any particular religion. Shabads related to the essence, i.e., Naam Sant and Guru, are the least understood, and also the most difficult to explain. This is because of our own limitations. As Guru Ji says, only a Brahmgyani can understand a Brahmgyani (273:16), or only a Sant understands the glory of Naam (265:6). Nevertheless, it is imperative that we understand their importance in our life. 

We could cite several hundred pages of Gurbani regarding importance of Sadh Sangat, and the Sant. On the average, the words Sant Sadh HarJan or Jan appear twice or more on each page. Only the words, 'Gurmukh' 'Guru' 'Naam' and various names used for God, exceed their frequency in Gurbani. In the Bani of Sukhmani Sahib, besides numerous other references to Sant and Jan, three complete Ashtpadi's (chapters) are devoted to this topic alone. It should be obvious that an insight into its meaning, and more importantly, its application is absolutely vital to our understanding of Gurmat and to succeed as a Sikh. 

Notwithstanding the prevalence of frauds and fakes, further compounded by an extreme rarity of a genuine Sant, a perfect Gursikh always lives somewhere. Some individuals would proudly display their derision of anyone called a Sant. This is unfortunate. A threat of deceit and abuse does not justify rejection of the institution of Sangat and its product, the Gurmukh or Sant. The charlatans have been always with us. During the time of the Ninth Master, there were 22 such individuals claiming to be the Guru, in just one small town of Bakala. Among people without any spiritual discipline, anyone with a little mental concentration and some knowledge of Gurbani can easily pass as the greatest Sant. 

Let us understand at least this, Sant is a rare soul, extremely difficult to find, and a Sant would not claim to be a Sant. The rest of these "Sants" and "Gurus" are, at best, just a little more advanced and clever than the masses around them, and in fact, if they claim to be a Sant, they do more damage than any good they may seem to accomplish. 

The terms, Sikh, Gursikh, Brahmgyani, Gurmukh, Jan or HariJan, Mahapurush, Sadh, and Sant, are the names given to Sikhs at various spiritual stages. The Sant is a sacred and supreme state recognized within the Panth. 

The prevalent abuse of this term, along with widespread ignorance of what it stands for, has degraded its meaning for the masses today. This makes some scholars to even suggest that 'Sant' is just a metaphor, used only for Sri Guru Granth Sahib, the Gurus, or God. This version could be acceptable if it had been indeed used sparingly, as a metaphor, not repeated on every page of Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Most of Gurbani is simple, composed in the languages of that era. Confusing us with metaphors is clearly, not the aim of Gurbani. Gurbani also refers to Sant in the present tense. Thus, while Gurbani is quite unambiguous that Sant is a person, a Sant must also be alive and well.


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## sunsingh (Jun 8, 2008)

Section IV 

How do we find a Sant? We must remember this: A Sant is carefree, most humble, imbued with Divine love and in tune with the will of Waheguru (711:12). A Sant would never make public claims to visions, spiritual experiences, or some supernatural powers, etc. If someone does so, just steer clear of that person. 

The characteristics of a Sant are described in Gurbani. But the public is critically deficient in this knowledge, because, any reference to this word is regarded with great suspicion. This facilitates only a widespread ignorance to flourish unimpeded, and the Sikh masses remains confused about the significance of meeting genuine Gursikhs or a genuine Sant. 

Nevertheless, this topic will continue to emerge, because Gurbani stresses upon company of a Sant as being indispensable. Since the establishment of Sat Sangat, we no longer wander in search of such an individual and we no longer follow someone who claims to be a Sant. Sadh Sangat is the place to be. Nevertheless, we must have a burning desire to be uplifted through company of such Gursikhs (1424:6-10) then Guru takes care of the rest. This is Guru's promise (e.g. page 204). 

Unfortunately, as they say, "When someone talks to God, we call it a prayer; but when God talks to someone, we call it schizophrenia." People may sing the Shabads idolizing the Sant and Sangat with utmost reverence, but they do not hesitate to denounce every Sant they will ever hear of. Something is seriously wrong here. As Guru Ji says, "Reach first for the root cause of disease" (450:14), before we can solve our internal problems, we need to remedy our lack of faith in the Panth, its garden, Sat Sangat, and its fruit, the Sant. 

Forgive me for repeating something we already know: without Gurbani there can be no Sat Sangat or Sadh Sangat (731:9, 160:6, 427:5). Shabad-Avatar, Gurbani, the living Guru, is an expression of God's love and it represents God Himself (1226:3, 515:17). Gurbani instructs us, so that we are honest with ourselves, with others, and with God. Gurbani implants the spiritual truth in our heart, often during those rare moments when we are absorbed in Kirtan, especially in Sadh Sangat (642:7). 

Someone may ask, "But, don't we know this already?" Let us see. We say Sangat represents the Guru, but our conduct shows that we do not really believe in it. Even those, who come to Gurudwara with a sincere desire to connect with Gurbani, sit with an inner disregard for the Sangat when, in fact, Sangat is the catalyst to connect us with the Guru. Most Sikhs today read the Gurbani verses regarding Sant with a resigned apathy. This is a testament of serious deficiency in our faith, akin to someone coming to an orchard but without an anticipation to find any fruit in there. In other words, we bow to the Guru but do not really believe in what the Guru says. A deficiency of this magnitude bears equally grave results. 

It should be no surprise to us that our problems continue. We lack direction, and quibble like children lacking adult supervision. Granted that, Bani with its Divine radiance continues to keep us spiritually intrigued. Kirtan of Gurbani in Sadh Sangat is meant to convert indolent masses into spiritual giants. However, it cannot do much for those who, implicitly, have no faith in its outcome, that Sant is a real person. We may sing and read Gurbani all our life, but without faith, our inner progress remains stunted. 

We know that Guru's Darshan is in Gurbani and it is revealed through Sangat. However, Gurbani can be only as good to us as our own faith in its teaching. As a first step, we must help each other in the Sangat by being absorbed in Gurbani with a sincere desire to be uplifted by the Sangat around us. Perhaps, this phenomenon of mutual spiritual support in Sangat needs to be studied further. Additionally, Sadh Sangat or company of perfect Sikhs is essential to learning the proper inner spiritual conduct. Gurbani stresses upon Sangat as an important step towards inner perfection, just as, one lamp lights another. 

We say Shabad is the Guru and that we receive everything from Gurbani. But, let us not forget that this is so only if we also obey, what Gurbani commands (982:10-11). Worshipping Gurbani but not doing what it says is just like someone worshipping a prescription but not taking the medicine prescribed therein. That would be just another form of idolatry. Rather, to feel satisfied with mere recitation of Gurbani and the rituals, without closeness to some perfect Gursikh some time in our life, is contrary to what Gurbani exhorts (e.g., 905:12, 204:5-8, 271:5-272:10). 

Gurbani also teaches us that there is no need to worship such Sikhs. The mere sight of a Sant is uplifting. Our eyes will betray the peace and dispassionate contentment that our soul regains in their company. Singing Gurbani with them is the way to liberation (1208:13-15, 898:8-13). 

But first, through God's mercy, we need that burning desire to see them. Only then, can we benefit from their company or recognize them. To a Sant, Gurbani is alive, and the Sant has fallen in love with it. This rubs off on us. Gurbani, then, takes a bright new meaning. This is the sign of true Sadh Sangat. Then we realize how, contact with Gurbani emancipates us (612:10). This changes everything.


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## Archived_member2 (Jun 8, 2008)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all!

The audience gathered in a building called Gurdwaaraa is not the Saadhu Sangat. This is another big illusion preacher and Baabaas have injected in minds of seekers.

The reverend Gurus say that one receives Naam Sabad from a Saadhu, Saint and the true Guroo. I have not met one Sikh who has received the true Naam Sabad from the gathering of people. 


Balbir Singh


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## pk70 (Jun 8, 2008)

( quote) Is Sant human being?"

*am{censored}nghera ji*
*Who takes birth as human, regardless the achievements in or worldly or spiritual fields, remains human; Sant differs from other human beings only because of his personal experience with the Creator; once it happens, there is no coming back from there, a divorce from crowd thinking takes place and a light to inspire others glows.*


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jun 9, 2008)

what is maya?


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## pk70 (Jun 9, 2008)

*Here is Guru ji's interpretation of MAYA

* ਜੈਸੀ ਅਗਨਿ ਉਦਰ ਮਹਿ ਤੈਸੀ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਮਾਇਆ ॥॥ ਮਾਇਆ ਅਗਨਿ ਸਭ ਇਕੋ ਜੇਹੀ ਕਰਤੈ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥ ਜਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਣਾ ਤਾ ਜੰਮਿਆ ਪਰਵਾਰਿ ਭਲਾ ਭਾਇਆ ॥ ਲਿਵ ਛੁੜਕੀ ਲਗੀ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਅਮਰੁ ਵਰਤਾਇਆ ॥ ਏਹ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਿਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਮੋਹੁ ਉਪਜੈ ਭਾਉ ਦੂਜਾ ਲਾਇਆ ॥ ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਿਨਾ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਤਿਨੀ ਵਿਚੇ ਮਾਇਆ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੨੯॥ ( GGS JI 921)  
As is the fire of womb within, so is the fire of mammon (Maya) without. The fires of worldly valuable and of the womb are all the same. The Creator has set agoing this play. When it pleases His, then is the child born and the family is well pleased. The Lord's Love departs, greed attaches to the child and mammon's writ begins to run. Such is this mammon, by which the Lord is forgotten, worldly love wells up and one is attached to the love of another. Says Nanak, they, who enshrine love for the Lord, by Guru's grace, obtain the Lord in the midst of mammon.   (Trans. By M. S)
ਜਿਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੀ ਅੱਗ ਗਰਭ ਸਥਾਨ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰਵਾਰਾਂ ਹੈ, ਉਸੇ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੀ ਹੀ ਅੱਗ ਬਾਹਰਵਾਰਾਂ ਦੁਨਿਆਂਦਾਰੀ ਦੀ ਹੈ। ਸੰਸਾਰੀ ਪਦਾਰਥਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਗਰਭ ਸਥਾਨ ਦੀਆਂ ਅੱਗਾਂ, ਸਮੂਹ ਇੱਕ ਸਮਾਨ ਹਨ। ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰ ਨੇ ਇਹ ਖੇਡ ਬਣਾਈ ਹੈ। ਜਦ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਚੰਗਾ ਲਗਦਾ ਹੈ, ਤਦ ਬਾਲ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਟੱਬਰ ਕਬੀਲਾ ਬੁਹਤ ਖੁਸ਼ ਹੰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤ ਦੂਰ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ, ਲੋਭ ਬਾਲ ਨੂੰ ਚਿੰਮੜ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਮੋਹਨੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਦਾ ਰਾਜ ਭਾਗ ਚਾਲੂ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਐਸੀ ਹੈ ਇਹ ਮੋਹਨੀ, ਜਿਸ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਭੁੱਲ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਸੰਸਾਰੀ ਮਮਤਾ ਉਤਪੰਨ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਇਨਸਾਨ ਹੋਰਸ ਦੇ ਪਿਆਰ ਨਾਲ ਜੁੜ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਆਖਦੇ ਹਨ, ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੀ ਗੁਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਦਇਆ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨਾਲ ਪ੍ਰੀਤ ਪੈ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਮੋਹਨੀ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਵੱਸਦੇ ਹੋਏ ਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ ਪਾ ਲੈਂਦੇ ਹਨ। 
ਉਦਰ = ਮਾਂ ਦਾ ਪੇਟ। ਬਾਹਰਿ = ਸੰਸਾਰ ਵਿਚ। ਕਰਤੈ = ਕਰਤਾਰ ਨੇ। ਜਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਣਾ = ਜਦੋਂ ਉਸ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ ਚੰਗਾ ਲੱਗਾ। ਪਰਵਾਰਿ = ਪਰਵਾਰ ਵਿਚ। ਭਲਾ ਭਾਇਆ = ਪਿਆਰਾ ਲੱਗਣ ਲੱਗ ਪਿਆ। ਛੁੜਕੀ = ਮੁੱਕ ਗਈ, ਟੁੱਟ ਗਈ। ਅਮਰੁ = ਹੁਕਮ। ਅਮਰੁ ਵਰਤਾਇਆ = ਹੁਕਮ ਚਲਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ, ਜ਼ੋਰ ਪਾ ਲਿਆ। ਜਿਤੁ = ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਰਾਹੀਂ। ਭਾਉ ਦੂਜਾ = ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਹੋਰ ਦਾ  ਪਿਆਰ।੨੯।

ਜਿਵੇਂ ਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਪੇਟ ਵਿਚ ਅੱਗ ਹੈ ਤਿਵੇਂ ਬਾਹਰ ਜਗਤ ਵਿਚ ਮਾਇਆ (ਦੁਖਦਾਈ) ਹੈ। ਮਾਇਆ ਤੇ ਅੱਗ ਇਕੋ ਜਿਹੀਆਂ ਹੀ ਹਨ, ਕਰਤਾਰ ਨੇ ਐਸੀ ਹੀ ਖੇਡ ਰਚ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਹੈ। ਜਦੋਂ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਰਜ਼ਾ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ ਜੀਵ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ ਪਰਵਾਰ ਵਿਚ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਲੱਗਦਾ ਹੈ (ਪਰਵਾਰ ਦੇ ਜੀਵ ਉਸ ਨਵੇਂ ਜੰਮੇ ਬਾਲ ਨੂੰ ਪਿਆਰ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਇਸ ਪਿਆਰ ਵਿਚ ਫਸ ਕੇ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਚਰਨਾਂ ਨਾਲੋਂ) ਪ੍ਰੀਤ ਦੀ ਤਾਰ ਟੁੱਟ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ, ਮਾਇਆ ਦੀ ਤ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨਾ ਆ ਚੰਬੜਦੀ ਹੈ, ਮਾਇਆ (ਉਸ ਉਤੇ) ਆਪਣਾ ਜ਼ੋਰ ਪਾ ਲੈਂਦੀ ਹੈ। ਮਾਇਆ ਹੈ ਹੀ ਐਸੀ ਕਿ ਇਸ ਦੀ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਰੱਬ ਭੁੱਲ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, (ਦੁਨੀਆ ਦਾ) ਮੋਹ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, (ਰੱਬ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ) ਹੋਰ ਹੋਰ ਪਿਆਰ ਉਪਜ ਪੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਫਿਰ ਅਜੇਹੀ ਹਾਲਤ ਵਿਚ ਆਤਮਕ ਆਨੰਦ ਕਿਥੋਂ ਮਿਲੇ?) ਨਾਨਕ ਆਖਦਾ ਹੈ-ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਨਾਲ ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਬੰਦਿਆਂ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤ ਦੀ ਡੋਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਚਰਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਜੁੜੀ ਰਹਿੰਦੀ ਹੈ, ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਮਾਇਆ ਵਿਚ ਵਰਤਦਿਆਂ ਹੀ (ਆਤਮਕ ਆਨੰਦ) ਮਿਲ ਪੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ।੨੯। ❁ ਭਾਵ: ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਨਾਲ ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਮਨੁੱਖਾਂ ਦੀ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਦੇ ਕਾਰ-ਵਿਹਾਰ ਕਰਦਿਆਂ ਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਚਰਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਜੁੜੀ ਰਹਿੰਦੀ ਹੈ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਆਤਮਕ ਆਨੰਦ ਬਣਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਜਗਤ ਦਾ ਹਾਲ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਜੀਵ ਨੂੰ ਜੰਮਦੇ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਉ ਆਦਿਕ ਦੇ ਪਿਆਰ ਦੀ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਮਾਇਆ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਚਰਨਾਂ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਵਿਛੋੜ ਲੈਂਦੀ ਹੈ। ( Dr Sahib Singh Ji)


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jun 9, 2008)

ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ 
सलोकु ॥ 
Salok. 
Shalok: 

ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰੈ ਜੋ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ॥ 
उरि धारै जो अंतरि नामु ॥ 
Ur ḏẖārai jo anṯar nām. 
One who enshrines the Naam within the heart, 

ਸਰਬ ਮੈ ਪੇਖੈ ਭਗਵਾਨੁ ॥ 
सरब मै पेखै भगवानु ॥ 
Sarab mai pėkẖai bẖagvān. 
who sees the Lord God in all,

ਨਿਮਖ ਨਿਮਖ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਨਮਸਕਾਰੈ ॥ 
निमख निमख ठाकुर नमसकारै ॥ 
Nimakẖ nimakẖ ṯẖākur namaskārai. 
who, each and every moment, bows in reverence to the Lord Master - 

ਨਾਨਕ ਓਹੁ ਅਪਰਸੁ ਸਗਲ ਨਿਸਤਾਰੈ ॥੧॥ 
नानक ओहु अपरसु सगल निसतारै ॥१॥ 
Nānak oh apras sagal nisṯārai. ||1|| 
O Nanak, such a one is the true 'touch-nothing Saint', who emancipates everyone. ||1|| 

ਅਸਟਪਦੀ ॥ 
असटपदी ॥ 
Asatpaḏī. 
Ashtapadee: 

ਮਿਥਿਆ ਨਾਹੀ ਰਸਨਾ ਪਰਸ ॥ 
मिथिआ नाही रसना परस ॥ 
Mithi&shy;ā nāhī rasnā paras. 
One whose tongue does not touch falsehood; 

ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਦਰਸ ॥ 
मन महि प्रीति निरंजन दरस ॥ 
Man meh parīṯ niranjan ḏaras. 
whose mind is filled with love for the Blessed Vision of the Pure Lord, 

ਪਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਪੇਖੈ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ॥ 
पर त्रिअ रूपु न पेखै नेत्र ॥ 
Par ṯari&shy;a rūp na pėkẖai nėṯar. 
whose eyes do not gaze upon the beauty of others' wives, 

ਸਾਧ ਕੀ ਟਹਲ ਸੰਤਸੰਗਿ ਹੇਤ ॥ 
साध की टहल संतसंगि हेत ॥ 
Sāḏẖ kī tahal saṯsang hėṯ. 
who serves the Holy and loves the congregation of saints, 

ਕਰਨ ਨ ਸੁਨੈ ਕਾਹੂ ਕੀ ਨਿੰਦਾ ॥ 
करन न सुनै काहू की निंदा ॥ 
Karan na sunai kāhū kī ninḏā. 
whose ears do not listen to slander against anyone, 

ਸਭ ਤੇ ਜਾਨੈ ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਮੰਦਾ ॥ 
सभ ते जानै आपस कउ मंदा ॥ 
Sabẖ ṯė jānai āpas ka&shy;o manḏā. 
who deems himself to be the worst of all, 

ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਪਰਹਰੈ ॥ 
गुर प्रसादि बिखिआ परहरै ॥ 
Gur parsāḏ bikẖi&shy;ā parharai. 
who, by Guru's Grace, renounces corruption, 

ਮਨ ਕੀ ਬਾਸਨਾ ਮਨ ਤੇ ਟਰੈ ॥ 
मन की बासना मन ते टरै ॥ 
Man kī bāsnā man ṯė tarai. 
who banishes the mind's evil desires from his mind, 

ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਜਿਤ ਪੰਚ ਦੋਖ ਤੇ ਰਹਤ ॥ 
इंद्री जित पंच दोख ते रहत ॥ 
Inḏrī jiṯ pancẖ ḏokẖ ṯė rahaṯ. 
who conquers his sexual instincts and is free of the five sinful passions - 

ਨਾਨਕ ਕੋਟਿ ਮਧੇ ਕੋ ਐਸਾ ਅਪਰਸ ॥੧॥ 
नानक कोटि मधे को ऐसा अपरस ॥१॥ 
Nānak kot maḏẖė ko aisā apras. ||1|| 
O Nanak, among millions, there is scarcely one such 'touch-nothing Saint'. ||1|| 

ਬੈਸਨੋ ਸੋ ਜਿਸੁ ਊਪਰਿ ਸੁਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ॥ 
बैसनो सो जिसु ऊपरि सुप्रसंन ॥ 
Baisno so jis ūpar suparsan. 
The true Vaishnaav, the devotee of Vishnu, is the one with whom God is thoroughly pleased. 

ਬਿਸਨ ਕੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਭਿੰਨ ॥ 
बिसन की माइआ ते होइ भिंन ॥ 
Bisan kī mā&shy;i&shy;ā ṯė ho&shy;ė bẖinn. 
He dwells apart from Maya. 

ਕਰਮ ਕਰਤ ਹੋਵੈ ਨਿਹਕਰਮ ॥ 
करम करत होवै निहकरम ॥ 
Karam karaṯ hovai nihkaram. 
Performing good deeds, he does not seek rewards. 

ਤਿਸੁ ਬੈਸਨੋ ਕਾ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਧਰਮ ॥ 
तिसु बैसनो का निरमल धरम ॥ 
Ŧis baisno kā nirmal ḏẖaram. 
Spotlessly pure is the religion of such a Vaishnaav; 

ਕਾਹੂ ਫਲ ਕੀ ਇਛਾ ਨਹੀ ਬਾਛੈ ॥ 
काहू फल की इछा नही बाछै ॥ 
Kāhū fal kī icẖẖā nahī bācẖẖai. 
he has no desire for the fruits of his labors. 

ਕੇਵਲ ਭਗਤਿ ਕੀਰਤਨ ਸੰਗਿ ਰਾਚੈ ॥ 
केवल भगति कीरतन संगि राचै ॥ 
Kėval bẖagaṯ kīrṯan sang rācẖai. 
He is absorbed in devotional worship and the singing of Kirtan, the songs of the Lord's Glory. 

ਮਨ ਤਨ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਗੋਪਾਲ ॥ 
मन तन अंतरि सिमरन गोपाल ॥ 
Man ṯan anṯar simran gopāl. 
Within his mind and body, he meditates in remembrance on the Lord of the Universe. 

ਸਭ ਊਪਰਿ ਹੋਵਤ ਕਿਰਪਾਲ ॥ 
सभ ऊपरि होवत किरपाल ॥ 
Sabẖ ūpar hovaṯ kirpāl. 
He is kind to all creatures. 

ਆਪਿ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੈ ਅਵਰਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ॥ 
आपि द्रिड़ै अवरह नामु जपावै ॥ 
Āp ḏariṛai avrah nām japāvai. 
He holds fast to the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. 

ਨਾਨਕ ਓਹੁ ਬੈਸਨੋ ਪਰਮ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੨॥ 
नानक ओहु बैसनो परम गति पावै ॥२॥ 
Nānak oh baisno param gaṯ pāvai. ||2|| 
O Nanak, such a Vaishnaav obtains the supreme status. ||2||


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jun 9, 2008)

pk70

thank you for bearing it with me 

its always a pleasure to read your responses to my queries.


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## pk70 (Jun 9, 2008)

*am{censored}ngheraji

My Pleasure! Let me also thank you for posting a beautiful Guru Shabad along with a Slok for it expresses the essence of Gurmat. I am going to book -mark it. So Beautiful !*


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## Archived_member2 (Jun 9, 2008)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all!

According to the translation and understanding of Prof. Sahib Singh Jee it explains (prvwr dy jIv aus nvyN jMmy bwl ƒ ipAwr krdy hn, ies ipAwr ivc Ps ky aus dI pRBU-crnW nwloN) pRIq dI qwr tu`t jWdI hY, . . .
May I ask what humans should do then? Should they not love their newly born child following Prof. Sahib Singh Jee's explanations?

PK70 Jee, please advise.

Also, I could not find the Guru's Vaak that the translator has understood so.


Balbir Singh


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## spnadmin (Jun 9, 2008)

Balbir ji

This is what pk70 has posted with respect to your quesiton.

As is the fire of womb within, so is the fire of mammon (Maya) without. The fires of worldly valuable and of the womb are all the same. The Creator has set agoing this play. When it pleases His, then is the child born and the family is well pleased. The Lord's Love departs, greed attaches to the child and mammon's writ begins to run. Such is this mammon, by which the Lord is forgotten, worldly love wells up and one is attached to the love of another. Says Nanak, they, who enshrine love for the Lord, by Guru's grace, obtain the Lord in the midst of mammon.

This is about loving children in a false way. Using them to further one's own haumei, to foster a sense of self that robs one's own soul and robs a child from having a healthy sense of connection with the Guru. It is about the wrong kind of love. The Lord's Love departs, greed attaches to the child and mammon's writ begins to run
 
Antonia D'Onofrio
aad0002


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## Archived_member2 (Jun 9, 2008)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Aad0002 Jee!

Prof. Sahib Singh Jee seem to have understood Gurdev when he wrote (prvwr dy jIv aus nvyN jMmy bwl ƒ ipAwr krdy hn, ies ipAwr ivc Ps ky aus dI pRBU-crnW nwloN) pRIq dI qwr tu`t jWdI hY, . . .
You seem to have understood Prof. Sahib Singh Jee as you wrote "This is about loving children in a false way. Using them to further one's own haumei, to foster a sense of self that robs one's own soul and robs a child from having a healthy sense of connection with the Guru. It is about the wrong kind of love."

Now you want me to understand your explanation about loving children in a false way. You have not said a word about the right way to love children though.

Did Gurdev also say once that 'The Lord's Love departs' and Jeevs get lost because parents love children in a false way?

Quote "It is about the wrong kind of love. The Lord's Love departs, greed attaches to the child and mammon's writ begins to run."
Have I understood it correctly? Mammon's writ begins to run after Jeevs begin to love their children wrongly.


Balbir Singh


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## pk70 (Jun 9, 2008)

*Aad0002 Ji*
* Late Dr Sahib Singh ji had an excellent understanding about the depth of Gurbani and its application; in this context he is saying what Guru ji defined Maya in various contexts. Remaining above Maya effects doesn’t mean at all to abandon sons, daughters, wife and other family as Mr. Balbir Singh points out; however, idea is against  getting drowned in their love and ignoring all virtual ways and HIM. The following Guru Vaakas will clear this superficial misconception. *
ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਨ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਜਾਇ ॥
दूजै भाइ न सेविआ जाइ ॥
Ḏūjai bẖā*ė na sėvi*ā jā*ė.
In the love of duality, no one can serve the Lord.
ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਹਾ ਬਿਖੁ ਖਾਇ ॥
हउमै माइआ महा बिखु खाइ ॥
Ha*umai mā*i*ā mahā bikẖ kẖā*ė.
In egotism and Maya, they are eating toxic poison.
ਪੁਤਿ ਕੁਟੰਬਿ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਿ ਮੋਹਿਆ ਮਾਇ ॥
पुति कुट्मबि ग्रिहि मोहिआ माइ ॥
Puṯ kutamb garihi mohi*ā mā*ė.
They are emotionally attached to their children, family and home.
ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਅੰਧਾ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥੩॥ ( GGS Ji 161)
  Page 166, Line 12
ਇਹੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹ ਕੁਟੰਬੁ ਹੈ ਭਾਇ ਦੂਜੈ ਫਾਸ ॥
इहु माइआ मोह कुट्मबु है भाइ दूजै फास ॥
Ih mā*i*ā moh kutamb hai bẖā*ė ḏūjai fās.
This emotional attachment to Maya and family, and the love of duality, is a noose around the neck.
Page 219, Line 9
ਪੂਤ ਮੀਤ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਮਤਾ ਸਿਉ ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਆਪੁ ਬੰਧਾਵੈ ॥
पूत मीत माइआ ममता सिउ इह बिधि आपु बंधावै ॥
Pūṯ mīṯ mā*i*ā mamṯā si*o ih biḏẖ āp banḏẖāvai.
In this way, they bind themselves to children, friends, Maya and possessiveness.


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## Archived_member2 (Jun 10, 2008)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all!

Quote from PK70 Jee "Late Dr Sahib Singh ji had an excellent understanding about the depth of Gurbani and its application; in this context he is saying what Guru ji defined Maya in various contexts."
A person entangled in translations is perhaps messed up. He refers the name of one translator but copy and pastes someone's else.
Please explain what is your personal understanding of the reverend Guru's Vaaks. Truth is that one realizes, not others.

*****

Quote from PK70 Jee (#3 of this topic) "Gursikh has Guru Shabad, there is no need left to find Sant, . . ."

Please listen. Gurdev is singing.
sMq ibnw mY Qwau n koeI Avr n sUJY jwvnw ]6]
sNq ibnw mY Qwa n koeé Avr n sUJY jwvnw ]6]
sant binaa mai thaa-o na ko-ee avar na soojhai jaavnaa. ||6|| SGGS 1018
Without the Saint, I have no place of rest at all; I cannot think of any other place to go. ||6|| (Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa)

Please clarify this. When Guru Arjan Dev Jee might have written the above Vaak, was it before the wisdom of Sabad or afterwards? I will be grateful.


Balbir Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 10, 2008)

.....Balbir ji writes...<<<<<<The first step is he needs to receive the true Naam Simran by the Grace of God. >>>>>>>>>> I agree....

...yes and this is given by the PANJ during Khandeh batte dee Pahul ceremony in the august presence of the One Supreme SAINT of all time..Sahib Guru Granth sahib Jee Mahraj. After vasakhi 1699 this "Naam dee daat" is not availble from any "individual"..who so ever says so..is  a liar and a fraud "false Guru"/false saint/saadh/dehdharee GURU?SANT?SAADH ceased to exist. .

Gyani jarnail Singh


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## sunsingh (Jun 10, 2008)

Section V 

Let us reiterate. Today, a Sant cannot replace Gurbani, the Guru, or the Panj Piyare, nor would a real Sant ever attempt to do so. Genuine Sikh Sant would claim to be only a Sikh and will kindle a desire in us so that we can be just like him, a true child of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Sant is the pinnacle of Sikh Panth. 

If we continue to live as if this goal is unreachable and disregard seeking company of such Sikhs, then, either Gurbani has failed us or we have failed Gurbani. People tend to ignore the portions of Gurbani they cannot understand, or they derail them with some alternate meaning just because they lack faith in its simple and straightforward meaning. How can we claim to be in Sat Sangat if we do not believe in, and anticipate, its outcome? 

If we were truly in Sat Sangat, then, someone among us must be turning into a Sant every so often. Otherwise, we must be wrong somewhere. If we do not have this conviction in our heart, then, clearly we have a problem (881:13-19). Our faith in Gurbani is valid only if we have a yearning and a hope to meet a perfect Gursikh, sometime soon, within our lifetime. We need to anticipate it, and pray for it whenever we are in the Sangat (763:1-. Gurbani is replete with Shabads saturated with this desire. They infuse vitality into the Sangat. If it were not so important, we would not have so many such Shabads. 

Guru Ji promises that there is always a Sant living somewhere in this world (1429:9, 1204:5). Sant is our role model, a testimony to the ultimate triumph of the Guru. However, emergence of our role model rests upon our own desire to meet such a person. Gurbani kindles this desire in our heart. Sant is the living proof that it is possible, today, as always, to become God-conscious while living in this society. Gurbani exhorts us, repeatedly, to have a yearning to see such perfect Gursikhs, just to assuage our doubts, if for no other purpose (810:13-17). Coming to Sangat with this desire is the road towards spiritual awakening. 

Here is a Shabad, regarding the qualities of Sant (adapted from translation by Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa): 

"Aasaa, Fifth Mehl: Twenty-four hours a day, they know the Lord to be near, they surrender to the Sweet Will of God. Only the One Name is the Support of the Saints, they consider themselves as dust of the feet of all. My brother, listen, to the conduct of the Saints, their greatness cannot be described. Pause. They trade only the Name of the Lord. They are the vision of bliss, Kirtan, the Praise of the Lord, is their repose. Friends and enemies are same to them, They know of no other than God. They erase millions upon millions of sins, dispelling suffering; they give spiritual life to the soul. They are brave, men of their word. The Saints have enticed Maya herself. Even the gods and the angels seek their company. Blessed is their Darshan, and fruitful is their service. With my palms pressed together, Nanak offers his prayer: O Lord, Treasure of Excellence, please bless me with the service of the Saints." (392:13-1 

Disregard of this sacred term cannot protect us from the charlatans. It only promotes ignorance and certain superficiality. This creates a spiritual void among the Sikh masses and thus, it makes them vulnerable to individuals who claim to be a Saint or a Guru. As a result, while our congregations become anemic and ritualistic due to a deficiency in this vital component of Sat Sangat, many members become discouraged and leave to join some fervently misguided group away from the mainstream Sangat. A Sant would never allow this. It also results in attrition of our young members to various other spiritual and religious disciplines. Perhaps we expect too much from the masses. As Guru Ji has said, true seekers are rare souls. 

Being a revolutionary, Guru Nanak introduced the remedy, a unique method to liberate us en masse: Sat Sangat generated with Gurbani, augmented with music and singing from the heart. Kirtan of GurShabd or God's Word, in Sadh Sangat can gradually, or instantly, convert ordinary masses into Saints (642:7). In Sangat, Gurbani uses the ordinary Sikhs joined to sing Gurbani, to uplift each other, during the window of those elusive moments when the ego is silenced through Kirtan of Gurbani (1185:10). 

Whenever two or more Sikhs, with faith in the miracle of Sangat, join and sing Gurbani, they are creating a Sadh Sangat. On the other hand, a multitude joined for singing Gurbani, but lacking faith in the outcome of Sangat, succeeds in creating only, a multitude singing Gurbani. Let us never confuse the two as the same. 

It is amazing that even the faithless multitude gets blessed, with crumbs, falling from the feast enjoyed by those Gursikhs who cherish the Sangat and have a firm faith in its outcome. This is a miracle of Sat Sangat that everyone gets blessed by just being there (861:8, 493:2). Thus, in due course, an association with the Sangat is meant to spiritually awaken everyone.


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## sunsingh (Jun 10, 2008)

Naam comes from Guru ji (not discussing gurmantar here, but Naam dhan, a blessing of very high spiritual status). Sants will give the vidhi (mehtod) for attaining this to those they find worthy. They have the keys. 

Of course, if Guru ji wants to give Naam without a sant, than he may do so. 

in fact, it is the sants who understand and teach the true teachings of Gurmat, not worldy scholars. 

He who practices the words of the Saints 
He is ferried across by the Guru’s grace 
jay ko bachan kamaavai santan kaa so gur parsaadee taree-ai. 
(Suhi 5th Guru, page 747) 

bilaaval mehalaa 5 || 
Bilaaval, Fifth Mehla:

*sa(n)than kai suneeath prabh kee baath || 
I listen to God’s Teachings from the Saints.*

kathhaa keerathan aana(n)dh ma(n)gal dhhun poor rehee dhinas ar raath ||1|| rehaao || 
The Lord’s Sermon, the Kirtan of His Praises and the songs of bliss perfectly resonate, day and night. ||1||Pause||

kar kirapaa apanae prabh keenae naam apunae kee keenee dhaath || 
In His Mercy, God has made them His own, and blessed them with the gift of His Name.

aat(h) pehar gun gaavath prabh kae kaam krodhh eis than thae jaath ||1|| 
Twenty-four hours a day, I sing the Glorious Praises of God. Sexual desire and anger have left this body. ||1||

thripath aghaaeae paekh prabh dharasan a(n)mrith har ras bhojan khaath || 
I am satisfied and satiated, gazing upon the Blessed Vision of God’s Darshan. I eat the Ambrosial Nectar of the Lord’s sublime food.

charan saran naanak prabh thaeree kar kirapaa sa(n)thasa(n)g milaath ||2||4||84|| 
Nanak seeks the Sanctuary of Your Feet, O God; in Your Mercy, unite him with the Society of the Saints. ||2||4||84||                                                   

All the worldly scholars do is raise noise about non-issues. They cry foul when a person touches the feet of one who does immense kirpa on them. Despite Gurbani promoting and allowing such satkaar numerous times.


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## Archived_member2 (Jun 10, 2008)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all!

Quote from Gyani Jarnail Singh Jee ".....Balbir ji writes...<<<<<<The first step is he needs to receive the true Naam Simran by the Grace of God. >>>>>>>>>> I agree...."
This suggestion is from all the true Gurus.

Quote "...yes and this is given by the PANJ during Khandeh batte dee Pahul ceremony in the august presence of the One Supreme SAINT of all time..Sahib Guru Granth sahib Jee Mahraj. After vasakhi 1699 this "Naam dee daat" is not availble from any "individual"..who so ever says so..is a liar and a fraud "false Guru"/false saint/saadh/dehdharee GURU?SANT?SAADH ceased to exist. ."
Not a single message from the above is from the true Gurus. Please provide an authentic proof from the reverend Gurus where they have suggested so. I will be grateful.


Balbir Singh


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## pk70 (Jun 10, 2008)

*Thanks for the bait; my answer is NO, no more entertainment. It is my great pleasure to declare that I have no interest in nowadays’ self claimed **Nam** achievers, sadh, sant,  Babasas, and gurus, thanks to Gurbani.*
ਬਕਿ ਬਕਿ *ਵਾਦ*ੁ ਚਲਾਇਆ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਬਿਖੁ ਜਾਣਿ ॥੧॥
Bak bak vāḏ cẖalā*i*ā bin nāvai bikẖ jāṇ. ||1||
Talking too much, one only starts arguments. Without the Name, everything is poison - know this well. ||1||


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## sunsingh (Jun 11, 2008)

Section VI 

Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us the formula: "Meditate upon the formless God, connect with the Shabad, and seek the glorious sight of the Khalsa." We need to follow this command thoroughly, with full faith and conviction. We know from the Bani of the Tenth Master that the definition of Khalsa is no different than the definition of a Sant. A Sant in the Sikh Panth today would keep the Rehit prescribed by the tenth Master, would dislike being called a Sant or a Guru, and would never lead the Sikhs away from mainstream Sangat into some eccentric group. These are some important qualities of a perfect Gursikh. Sangat of Guru Khalsa or such perfect Sikhs, and submitting to the Panj Piyare is the foundation of Sikh Panth. 

In conclusion, here is an excerpt, from 'Anmol Bachan' compiled by Surjit Kaur Gandhi, pp. 54-55. Once Sri Naranjan Singh Ji was asked, what is the definition of a perfect soul? His reply is translated as follows: 

"Perfect person is he who has the power to change the circumstances, the direction of events, but does not change because of the circumstances. Brahmgyani's words are more powerful than millions of soldiers. A Brahmgyani's word does not go to waste, as Guru Ji says, 'Sadhu's word is eternal' (1204:6). A perfect soul's command cannot be reversed here nor it can be reversed in heaven. Perfect souls can endure what would be otherwise impossible. They give hints, but do not tell their secrets. 

"A Brahmgyani, A perfect person's eyes sprinkle Amrit. Hearts that have been on fire are pacified. Their vision removes doubts and answers all questions. Their sight is peace giving and the mind comes to rest. Disturbance is replaced with Smadhi, poison is replaced with Amrit, and the tenth gate is opened. Perfect souls teach only Gurmat. They dispel darkness within our mind. 

"We must sustain perfect faith. If our faith is deficient then, there can be no knowledge or spiritual light. 'Those who did not know how to love, fall by the wayside' (1425:2) Perfect souls know other people's thoughts. God Himself is present with a perfect soul. This is not a secret. There is no trick involved here. 'He has placed Himself in the true Guru. This is declared openly' (466: 

"Once, during the Katha of Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Sant Ji said that a perfect soul's feet become spiritually alive. Dead used to wake up after being touched by Baba Amardas Ji's feet. Perfect beings live in gratitude. Their words are for everyone, in the entire world. Sant Attar Singh Ji used to say that Darshan is governed by the word (obeying the command). Seeing Akaal Purakh is having Darshan of the Guru. 'Gurmukh is in the Divine Sound and in the Vedas. Gurmukh is all pervading.' (2: 

"Time, space, and causation become nonexistent in the presence of a Perfect soul. 'My friends are only those, whose mere sight banishes my ignorance' (520: 'They are found standing where the accounts are being settled' (529:3) Such souls weigh every word seriously before uttering it. They are solemn, fathomless, and deep thinkers. They are the Sun of knowledge. Their personality is like the sea. Just as one cannot fathom the sea, one cannot fathom them either. Mahapurush have the experience of Gurmat. 'He, in whose heart Nirankar has taken residence, the entire world is delivered through his teaching' (269:9)" ~ End of excerpt 

Saints are the only humans that are truly alive in this world. The rest of us make up the bulk of Sikh Panth. Their company enlivens us (e.g., p. 881). Sant is the lifeblood on Panth. God hides Himself in a Sant's heart (718:11). Guru Ji says, "The sole purpose of a Jan (Sant) coming into this world is that we remember Naam in their company" (295:1). 

This is the last post in the series of articles.
from Sikhnet forum.


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## sunsingh (Jun 11, 2008)

I think at this point we should ask ourselves, why is there so much confusion? Why do so many scholars say that sants do not exist?

I think there are two reasons for this:

1) To prevent people from being misled by a fake sant. - This viewpoint shows a lack of sharda on the individual's part. Fake sants existsed during the Guru's time as well. Recall Sajjan Thag, who masquaraded as a holy man to steal people's belongings. Nobody has any right to mislead people about Gurmat Marg. Those who do this for another's "own good" are acting in haumai. 

2) To deliberately mislead people as sants teach things that are different from the so called scholar's own ideology. These "scholars" often use the excuse in number one. Examples of such liars and underminers of the Guru's teachings include Singh Sabha International and Singh Sabha Canada (who attempt to use the good name of the Singh Sabha movement to portray themselves as reformers when they are anything but that).

The following video shows immense nindya of the Guru's sants, gurmukhs such as Baba Gurbachan Singh ji: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?do...90&q=nanaksar&ei=9_Q5SMqTJIGKqAPbtJzwAw&hl=en
The video highlights the fanatical, narrow minded aspects of these dangerous anti-panthic groups.


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## sunsingh (Jun 13, 2008)

*Who is a True Sant?*

Sant Sipahi is a point that we reach on this path. We do not automatically become sants once we accept Amrit. Gurbani in numerous places describes the qualities of a sant, what it takes to be one, normal human beings or normal Gursikhs clearly are not sants. 

In Japji sahib it states that the consciousness is refashioned at certain spiritual stages, and those not yet at this stage cannot comprehend the consciousness of such a person. This is the greatness of sants, that they are so advanced in their understanding and do such kirpa in leading us to the Guru's feet. 

Role of Sants: http://www.sikhism.us/gurmat-vichaar/21970-what-is-role-sants-khalsa-panth.html

The Singh Sabha International and the Canadian Singh Sabha are attempting to capitalise from the god name of the Singh Sabha movement to promote their own brand of Sikhi, completely different from what the Gurus have taught. This video shows an example where they have included true Sants in their nindya, this highlights a fanatical anti-Gurmat mindset common among many of those of the missionary ilk that needs to be exposed.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?do...90&q=nanaksar&ei=9_Q5SMqTJIGKqAPbtJzwAw&hl=en
The propaganda of the RSS and the Indian Government could not be as effective as the propaganda of these dangerous anti-Sikh groups. This is because they have the appearance of Sikhs and spread their twisted ideology from within the Sikh community.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 13, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*

The way i look at it..these Babas have done more harm to Gurmatt and Sikhi already. Each DERA has its own Maryada and refuse to follow the Panth Approved Sikh Rehat Maryada. Nnaksar is cult as they dont have NISHAN SAHIBS, Dont have GURDWARAS,DONT have Guru Ka Langgar BUT against SGGS/Gurbani and SRM...they DO HAVE PIctures of  their Sants at par with Parkash of SGGS.
The One and ONLY TRUE SANT is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that is physical manifestation of AKAL PURAKH and Divine Message.
Singh Sabha International Canada is doing  a yeomans service to the Guru Khalsa Panth in awakening us to these termites within us. Our One and ONLY Guru is SGGS....BOTH SANT and SIPAHI- the COMPLETE GURU.
Gyani jarnail Singh


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## spnadmin (Jun 13, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*

Sunsingh ji

Many groups and sangats within "mainstream" Sikhism, and there are scores, as we can see from the news about infighting among Jathedars in India, believe that they walk on the path of Sikhism in its purest form. It is not my place to decide who is walking on the right path and who is not. However, SPN is a place that is organized to promote diverse expression. 

quote*
The Singh Sabha International and the Canadian Singh Sabha are attempting to capitalise from the god name of the Singh Sabha movement to promote their own brand of Sikhi, completely different from what the Gurus have taught. This video shows an example where they have included true Sants in their nindya, this highlights a fanatical anti-Gurmat mindset common among many of those of the missionary ilk that needs to be exposed.

* *The propaganda of the RSS and the Indian Government could not be as effective as the propaganda of these dangerous anti-Sikh groups. This is because they have the appearance of Sikhs and spread their twisted ideology from within the Sikh community. *end quote

I have reported this post to the Leaders section for discussion -- to determine if a forum rule has been broken because of the harsh criticism voiced in your message. The discussion will determine whether this post will remain or whether it will be deleted. Until that decision is made I would ask you to desist from further harsh language. 

Apologies if I have offended you, but we serve as I said a very diverse group of members, all of whom wish to be heard without condemnation.


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## pk70 (Jun 13, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*

*I have seen the video posted by SunSingh ji., I really do not know who is this Canadian  Singh Sabha group  but I am curious about the persons shown in video. Were all of them true Sant? There are lot of Sant out there, respectfully I ask , should we just accept them as Sant to understand Guru Granth Sahib ji. I have been living in U.S.A for 20 years. Never met any Baba, Sant but I have studied only Guru Granth Sahib,  and only this much effort tore apart my hypocrisy. Do we really need Sant or Sadhu? Only real Sadh -Sant, I know of, was Puran Singh Pingalwara, Sant of Dhyano Majra, they lived devoid of their own entity/ego, no sunglasses, no cars, no glamorous  atmospheres but just “service or simran; how much public gave revering status to them compared to all Sant of this century? Guru ji says “Sant are important but only really ones,”  and, first we have to decide and check out who is real one before just bowing to any one. In my recent visit to India, I witnessed Sikhs bowing to every thing, stones, Babas, Devis, Gnesha , Pundit etc; why it is so? What contribution of these Sant has in convincing Sikhs to devote themselves only to Akaalpurak? If there is any, why most of the people have crowd mentality even after listening to these Sant. During Guru times, Pirthye Meene, they opened up their own shops; some Guru Nanak’s followers went there too because Meharban meena  and his decedents also did katha of Guru Nanak and other Guru jian’s Bani. Most of the Sikhs remained away from them and stuck to Real Guru ji because they analyzed these guys’ lives in context of real Guru ji’s eventually their shops got closed. When Guru ji gives importance to Sant, it is about people who are in ‘SEHAJ(equipoise)’ state, such persons’ behavior amazes the public. So far no luck in this context. I would like to end my comment with the following quote from SunSingh Ji*
  (quote) ……. We do not automatically become sants once we accept Amrit.  Gurbani in numerous places describes the qualities of a sant, what it takes to be one, normal human beings or normal Gursikhs clearly are not sants.”


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## kds1980 (Jun 13, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*



> In my recent visit to India, I witnessed Sikhs bowing to every thing, stones, Babas, Devis, Gnesha , Pundit etc; why it is so?



It is not only sikhs .i think Indians can bow to anything who is going to give them material or worldly gain.Recently I was sitting in with one our hindu family friend who is a devotee of  a bhagwan of south.One of the other person pointed to its photo and said is he the same fellow who is exposed by India TV.That bhagwan charges rs.1.5 lakhs to allow people to touch his feet (around 4000$)He said yes he is the same guy.He started visiting him after his
business started failing and after his visits his business improved.The answer of our family friend was our karma are so bad that's why they charge and in the end of discussion he said are we people mad for giving him so much money.We are getting something

So my point is when you face worldly problem and by bowing to something your problem start vanishing though it is by co incidence.No matter what you say That person is not going to leave it.


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## spnadmin (Jun 13, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*

Dearest Giani ji, kds and pk70,

 Thanks for getting the discussion onto a review of issues. 

Canadian Singh Saba (or Sabha) is located in Surrey, British Columbia. Is there an unfortunate mix-up? One scandalous Canddian Baba is Baba Harnak Grewal and his scandalous doings can be followed at this link. http://www.asianpacificpost.com/portal2/402881910674ebab010674f4a82a1287.do.html

 After an Internet search, I found nothing to suggest that Canadian Singh Sabha is mixed up with false Babas. In fact their Internet presence is very scanty. So maybe more information about the situation is necessary. 

The video link in sunsingh's post is not working in my browser -- so when I can view it then I will know if we are talking about Baba Harnak or someone else.

* UPDATE:* I was able to view the video on YouTube. The url for the video is www.singhsabhacanada.com which is a branch of Singh Sabha International. So it appears to be unrelated to Canadian Singh Sabha. It also has nothing to do with Harnak Grewal. 

When you see the video on the YouTube site *it is obvious* that singhsabhacanada is *NOT* promoting Babas and Sants. The organization is warning the public about the problem of fake Babas and self-styled Sants. That video and related videos are of *Nanaksar services i*n a number of cities in India. 

Quite a few shots of Hindu style renunciates are depicted. I am inclined to agree with pk70, kids and Gyani jarnail -- we are witnessing a trend that is worldwide. My recommendation would be to change the title of the thread. Or to merge the thread with a similar thread started a day or two ago Core Gurmat Philosophy Self Made Scholars 
because Canadian Sikhs are *not the cultprits *in this story. 

 Finally, let me repeat the comment made by Gyani Jarnail about Singh Sabha International *Singh Sabha International Canada is doing a yeomans service to the Guru Khalsa Panth in awakening us to these termites within us.* Our One and ONLY Guru is SGGS....BOTH SANT and SIPAHI- the COMPLETE GURU.

 I apologize for it was necessary to come back to these comments many many times to edit them. But we have to get our facts straight before we identify groups as nindhya groups.


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## Randip Singh (Jun 14, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*

Are they any more less fanatical than AKJ, DDT, GNNSJ, Namdhari's etc?


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## spnadmin (Jun 14, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*



randip singh said:


> Are they any more less fanatical than AKJ, DDT, GNNSJ, Namdhari's etc?




Earlier in the thread "I apologize for it was necessary to come back to these comments many many times to edit them. But we have to get our facts straight before we identify groups as nindhya groups."

Are the facts straight in the thread ?(Randip ji and NamJap ji, remarks not directed to you)


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## sunsingh (Jun 14, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*

In this thread, when referring to sant I am only referring to the real sants, not the fake ones. Unfortunately, in the video they are doing nindya of those sants who are real and have lead many people to the Guru's feet, such as Baba Gurbachan Singh ji. 

Gyani ji, Gurbani teaches us to learn from the sants, and put their teachings into practice:
He who practices the words of the Saints 
He is ferried across by the Guru’s grace 
jay ko bachan kamaavai santan kaa so gur parsaadee taree-ai. 
(Suhi 5th Guru, page 747)  

If you feel otherwise, please provide references from Gurbani proving this. 

My concern with this group is that they are trying to undermine this aspect of Gurmat, basically remake Sikhi but without sants. We see proof of this because they are insultingly implying that true sants are dehdari Gurus.

As for Nanaksar, unrelated to the thread as I'm only concerned with the group's attack on sants, so just fyi: 
During Baba Nand Singh ji's time he held sangat in a remote place. They had no langar facilities and relied on whatever food was brought in from outside. Sometimes no food would be brought in for days and sangat would go hungry. But nobody ever died from starvation. God would always provide for enough food and water. In this way, they learned to rely on bhana (God's will) to provide for them.
Today, Nanaksar gurdwaras do not have a regular langar, for this reason they do not have Nishaan Sahibs.

Getting back to the matter at hand, by what right do these people imply that Baba Gurbachan Singh ji and other true sants are dehdhari gurus?


----------



## spnadmin (Jun 14, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*

Sunsingh ji

I will put my specific reactions within the quote of your comments. 

But let me say first: The title of this thread is *Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*. The *Truth* is that Singh Sabha International has a branch called Singh Sabha Canada NOT Canadian Singh Sabha. I tried to explain this earlier. Singh Sabha International, just like many Sikh organizations, has contributed its share of controversy in the recent past. However the group does not promote nindhya or false babas. As Gyani Jarnail Singh has pointed out, they are in the forefront of working against deeras led by fake babas. So the only conclusion that I can draw is that the thread title is creating an untruthful perception about Singh Sabha International and canadian sikhs in general. 

My second point: The video that is posted in the beginning of the thread is not about Candadian Singh Sabha  or Singh Saba International. It is likely that singhsabacanada.com may have posted that video to make a point -- watch out for these renegade deeras.

So my overall reaction is that the thread got off in an unfortunate way.




sunsingh said:


> In this thread, when referring to sant I am only referring to the real sants, not the fake ones. Unfortunately, in the video they are doing nindya of those sants who are real and have lead many people to the Guru's feet, such as Baba Gurbachan Singh ji.
> 
> 
> *They may be doing nindhya of the real sants -- but Singh Sabha International has nothing to do with it. *
> ...



*Who is claiming this? Singh Sabha International, singhsabhacanada.com, or Nanaksar?*

To recap:
Singh Sabha International and Singh Sabha Canada are not doing nindhya of the Sants and Gurus. The video in question is about a Nanaksar organization which is an international organization. Canadian Siingh Sabha is a gurdwara in Richmond, British Columbia, Canadia. The title of the thread is misleading.


----------



## sunsingh (Jun 14, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*



> The Truth is that Singh Sabha International has a branch called Singh Sabha Canada NOT Canadian Singh Sabha.


Sorry for mixing up the title of that group.




> I tried to explain this earlier. Singh Sabha International, just like many Sikh organizations, has contributed its share of controversy in the recent past. However the group does not promote nindhya or false babas. As Gyani Jarnail Singh has pointed out, they are in the forefront of working against deeras led by fake babas. So the only conclusion that I can draw is that the thread title is creating an untruthful perception about Singh Sabha International and canadian sikhs in general.


Actually, they do nindya of sants.



> My second point: The video that is posted in the beginning of the thread is not about Candadian Singh Sabha or Singh Saba International. It is likely that singhsabacanada.com may have posted that video to make a point -- watch out for these renegade deeras.


This point is also made by true sants. However, they do not insult other true sants while making such a point.



> To recap:
> Singh Sabha International and Singh Sabha Canada are not doing nindhya of the Sants and Gurus. The video in question is about a Nanaksar organization which is an international organization. Canadian Siingh Sabha is a gurdwara in Richmond, British Columbia, Canadia. The title of the thread is misleading.



Playing a song in the background that says free us from these dehdhari pakhandis while showing pictures of respected sants constitutes nindya. They also write comments on the pictures of these sants alleging that they are engaged in anti-Gurmat activities or that they have low character. How is that not nindya? The title of the thread is in no way misleading and it seems quite clear to me that this groups intention is to do nindya of sants.

Most of the video is about Nanaksar, however, the beginning of the video does nindya of sants from many different groups.

The video is also found at the Singh Sabha Canada website.
Read what is written in Gurbani about nindaks of the sants, about their characters. As you can plainly see, it really does show the truth about Singh Sabha Canada and Singh Sabha International.


----------



## Astroboy (Jun 14, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*

Does this tuk sound familiar ?

Bhaag Hoaa Gur Sant Milaya
Prabh Abhinasi Ghar Mein Paiya

Ghar doesn't mean Physical Home but Body (Nij Ghar)
Sant means Guru and not "Sant'' Gurbachan Singh. Anybody belonging to Sikhism and believes in SGGS as our guru knows that any dehdhari does not qualify to be called a Sant let alone accept the position of sant. 
There is no question of nindhiya as there are no sants (with the exception of fake baabas) in the Sikh dharma. The only sant is SGGS.


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## sunsingh (Jun 14, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*



> Does this tuk sound familiar ?
> 
> Bhaag Hoaa Gur Sant Milaya
> Prabh Abhinasi Ghar Mein Paiya
> ...



So are you saying that Sant Jarnail Singh is not a sant?


There are numerous shabads stating that sants exist. They need to be looked at in context to be understood.  If sants don't exist, than what do those people who successfully follow Gurmat Marg become? Sant avastha is the result of the Guru's teachings. We don't just remain the same after following the Guru's teachings everyday for a long period of time. 

For more proof that sants do exist, see this thread - If you feel that they don't exist, feel free to disprove the vichaar on this thread: http://www.sikhism.us/gurmat-vichaar/21970-what-is-role-sants-khalsa-panth.html

We see the power of a Sikh who has correctly followed Gurmat Marg and reached the sant stage shown by Bhagat Naam Dev ji (panna 1252):


dws AinMn myro inj rUp ]
  	dh*aa*s an*i*(n)n m*ae*r*o* n*i*j r*oo*p ||
 _Says God: my slave is devoted only to me; he is in my very image._
 
drsn inmK qwp qReI mocn prsq mukiq krq igRh kUp ]1] rhwau ]
  	dharasan n*i*makh th*aa*p thr*ee* m*o*chan parasath m*u*kath karath gr*i*h k*oo*p ||1|| reh*aa*o ||
 _The sight of him, even for an instant, cures the three fevers; his touch brings liberation from the deep dark pit of household affairs. ||1||Pause||_
 
myrI bWDI Bgqu CfwvY bWDY Bgqu n CUtY moih ]
  	m*ae*r*ee* b*aa(n)*dhh*ee* bhagath shhadd*aa*v*ai* b*aa(n)*dhh*ai* bhagath n shh*oo*tt*ai* m*o*h*i* ||
 _The devotee can release anyone from my bondage, but I cannot release anyone from his._
 
eyk smY mo kau gih bWDY qau Puin mo pY jbwbu n hoie ]1]
  	e*ae*k sam*ai* m*o* ko geh*i* b*aa(n)*dhh*ai* tho f*u*n m*o* p*ai* jab*aa*b n h*o*e ||1||
 _If, at any time, he grabs and binds me, even then, I cannot protest. ||1||_
 
mY gun bMD sgl kI jIvin myrI jIvin myry dws ]
  	m*ai* g*u*n ba(n)dhh sagal k*ee* j*ee*van m*ae*r*ee* j*ee*van m*ae*r*ae* dh*aa*s ||
 _I am bound by virtue; I am the Life of all. My slaves are my very life._
 
nwmdyv jw ky jIA AYsI qYso qw kY pRym pRgws ]2]3]
  	n*aa*madh*ae*v j*aa* k*ae* j*ee*a *ai*s*ee* th*ai*s*o* th*aa* k*ai* pr*ae*m prag*aa*s ||2||3||
 _Says Naam Dayv, as is the quality of his soul, so is my love which illuminates him. ||2||3||_
As it clearly states in Japji Sahib, when a Sikh reaches the Saram Khand the intellect is refashioned. 
ਤਿਥੈ  ਘੜੀਐ  ਸੁਰਤਿ  ਮਤਿ  ਮਨਿ  ਬੁਧਿ  ॥ 
Ŧithai gẖaṛī*ai suraṯ maṯ man buḏẖ. 
The intuitive consciousness, intellect and understanding of the mind are shaped there. 

ਤਿਥੈ  ਘੜੀਐ  ਸੁਰਾ  ਸਿਧਾ  ਕੀ  ਸੁਧਿ  ॥੩੬॥ 
Ŧithai gẖaṛī*ai surā siḏẖā kī suḏẖ. ||36|| 
The consciousness of the spiritual warriors and the Siddhas, the beings of spiritual perfection, are shaped there. ||36|| 

In Karam Khand, the Sikh reaches a stage where their bachans (sayings) have spiritual power and come true: 
ਕਰਮ  ਖੰਡ  ਕੀ  ਬਾਣੀ  ਜੋਰੁ  ॥ 
Karam kẖand kī baṇī jor. 
In the realm of karma, the Word is Power. 

As we can clearly see, a person who follows this path and has the Guru's kirpa advances in spiritual level and their consciousness also becomes more enlightened. What else are sants but those who have reached the further reaches of Gurmat marg?


----------



## spnadmin (Jun 14, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*

sunsingh ji

I have read what Gurbani says about sants many times over. The video on the singhsabhacanada web site is a demo. The organization is not supporting nindhya.


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## Astroboy (Jun 14, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*

Sant is for Guru - Jarnail Singh never claimed himself a guru. If he did, then he should not be recognised as a Sikh. Yes, he was a good strategist and an up-coming politician.

Gur Darshan Sant Piyare Jio - what does this mean ?


----------



## Astroboy (Jun 14, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*



> We see the power of a Sikh who has correctly followed Gurmat Marg and reached the sant stage shown by Bhagat Naam Dev ji (panna 1252)



When we have Sant/Bhagat Namdev Ji's wisdom contained in the SGGS, do we then still need to find a dehdharee sant ?  It's like finding a needle in a haystack, really. Gurbani explains how difficult it is to find a sant. Why start all over when Bhagat Namdev Ji speaks to us in his Sainthood. Better to drive on a worldclass highway than walking thru the forest. IMHO


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 14, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*

Guru piario Jio,
AAd ji has tried her very best to pull this thread from going overboard/sunk due to bad titling.
1. The Singh Sabha international is a US based Organsiation( Roseville California) that publishes the monthly Bulletin "Sikh Bulletin". The Founder of this Organsiation had very bad personal experience with one of the worst "Modern thugghs aka sants..called Sant baba AMARSINGH of Burundi NANAKSAR". This Sant had cheated him out of vast piece of land/buildings in the name of "Sikhi"...and was forced to give it all back after  a lengthy court case. This sant is also one of those SANTS Permanently BANNED from entering  MALAYSIA since the early 1970's due to serious charges. Singh Sabha International Blog...    AND     Welcome to Singh Sabha International Canada  the
The Sikh Bulletin: November-December 2007.
2. These Singh Sabhas all ONLY preach and promote TATT GURMATT - stand solidly behind Only GURU GRANTH, Khalsa Panth approved Sikh Rehat Maryada of 1935. They check everything on the TOUCHSTONE of GURBANI in SGGS. Any thing..be it ritual..or anything else...no matter whether any Sant ji Brahmgiani Ji or Baba Ji said it or sanctioned it...IF THAT FAILS on the touchstone of GURBANI of SGGS..then it stands REJECTED. I agree with this approach 150%.

3. I agree completley with PK70....the Best example of a TRUE SANT/BHAGAT/GURMUKH/SAADH..is BHAGAT POORAN SINGH of Pingalwarra. No flashy cars/limos....no dark spectacles, rounder than round turbans, shining clothes cholas of the best silks, money/goluck/gifts of gold and jewels/electronic stuff at his feet...ladies lining up to matha tek and get blessings...and HUGE DERAS with basements. security cameras, armed guards,  grandiose "marble Gurdwaras that are PERSONAL PROPERTY of the SANT and NOT owned by the SANGAT..etc etc..the HALLMARKS of ALL those who are known as "SANTS". Bhagat pooran Singh followed in the footsteps of His GURU..Guru Arjun Ji sahib....living SIMPLY, feeding all he had to the poor and the unfortunate among us..WRITING and PUBLISHING small pamphlets on RECYCLED PAPER on conservation....Gurbani, Truthful LIVING...etc etc which no other SANT has even attempted despite the tons of donations they receive. No one can dispute any "title" being bestowed on Pooran Singh..he can be Sant..he can be Bhagat..he can be saadh..He can be Gurmukh...any and ALL titles apply equally to this highly SIKH SOUL..SAAS GRAASS naam jappan wala naam rassiah SEWAPANTHI SIKH . His Pingalwarra is the only such institution running today doing such wonderful sewa of the unfortunate and underprivileged....he singlehandedly began and ran this huge welfare institution until the day he died...."earning" his keep by the honest labour and using all donations, money earned from pamphlets etc for teh pingalwarra. With the hundreds of thousands of SANTS and DERAS why doesnt Punajb/India have any more Pingalwarras...hopsitals for the poor...schools..colleges...where the "SANT" is NOT CENTRE STAGE 150% of the time ??? I know many "sants" run schools/colleges/academies...BUT in each adn every picture that appears in the PRESS/RadioTV/ etc the "SANT" is centre stage....Baba ji doing this..Baba Ji Doing that..Baba ji..Baba Ji..Baba ji...not a word about PRIME BABA JI....THE one and ONLY SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE !!! when in actual fact SGGS is the FOUNTAIN HEAD of EDUCATION...caring for the Sick...anything and everything a Sikh can and should do. A certain group of retired Civil Servants who have turned into BABA JIS...and have opened ACADEMIES all over Punjab in a matter of 3 years or less...BUT they too activley PROMOTE the ex civil servants turned BABAS as the BeALL and EndALL of their Academies..when the  Human Babbas should be subservient to GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE !!
4. I have absolutley NOTHING agisnt any Baba/Sant..present or past...How could I double guess anyone elses spirituality/state of Gurmatt consciousness ?? But we can and must rely on the "Gurbani Touchstone"...and IF even a Sant or "Brahmgiani" says or writes soemthign that FAILS this TEST..then he fails. Period. Inder Singh Ghaggha has artilces written on the website of www.sikhmarg.com  -   where he openly challenges more than 100 "Failures" of Sant gurbachan Singh Ji of Damdami taksaal. In the Book Gurmatt Paath darshan Sant ji states these 100++ "facts" which are not as per Gurbani/SGGS....according to Prof Ghaggha Ji who quotes GURBANI to substantiate his views.. All these can be verified- as we have both the Gurbani of SGGS plain  and simple and Sant jis book. I could never hope to reach the "Brahmgiani" status of Sant ji...BUT my one and Only Guru is SGGS in which I have infinite Faith as the Ultimate Spiritual GUIDE for me...thus i dont need any human sant no matter how highly developed (others are welcome to avail themsleves of that - no objections from me).
5. I DONT BUY the "nanksari " arguments on why they dont have Guru Ka Langgar. Nishan Sahibs and GURDWARAS preferring to call their places THAATHS. BTW all these "Thaaths" are NOT SANGAT PROPERTY...as in the case of GURDWARAS worldwide. As we all know GURU NANAK JI began the GURU KALanggar Pratha (tradition) - this is one of the PILLARS on whcih the Mansion of SIKHI Stands..to carry out WANDCHHAKO injunction of Gurmatt. NISHAN SAHIBS are used to IDENTIFY SIKH GURDWARAS worldwide...JHOOLTEY NISHHAN RAHEN PANTH MAHARAJ KE...is one of the battle cries jaikaras of Sikhs....the Nishan Sahib guarantees Safe haven in the presence of SGGS...and more importantly the Nisahn sahib shows the PANTH SOLIDARITY....thus anyone who wants to BREAK this Solidarity would be...doing exactly what the nanaksari thaaths do...DISCARD the NISHHAN SAHIB that identifies THE PANTH.

Warmest regards to all..

Gyani jarnail Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 14, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*



namjap said:


> Sant is for Guru - Jarnail Singh never claimed himself a guru. If he did, then he should not be recognised as a Sikh. Yes, he was a good strategist and an up-coming politician.
> 
> Gur Darshan Sant Piyare Jio - what does this mean ?


 
Naam japp Ji, Gurfateh.
You have a valid point.

This is the reason why Guru ji...has put GUR in front of SANT....its not just sant..BUT GURSANT !! Guru and Sant for Guru Arjun Ji is GUru RAMDASS JI...and the preceeding Gurus sahibanns Guru Amardass Ji, Guru Angad Ji and Guru nanak ji Sahib.
For US..today this GURSANT is SGGS.

What we need is GURBANI VICHAAR to decipher exactly the teachings of the Gursant..but many go for the literal superficial wordings of Gurbani and thus run afetr human dehdharee "sants" while also paying lip service to SGGS. TO each and every "sant" follower..the  dehdharee SANT is more vital than the SGGS...they will come to blows to "defend" their patron sant !! In actual FACT Gurbani places no importance on the DEH at all....but many even place the restrictions of the DEH on the SHABAD GURU..they feel that the SGGS "feels" cold in winter ( needing thick rumallahs)..and feels hot in summer (needing thin rumallahs)....sggs also needs air conditioners, fans, heaters etc etc !!! The "Deh dharee Sants" are the main culprits behind the spread of such myths...under guise of "satikaar" of SGGS when TRUE SATIKAAR of SGGS is UNDERSTANDING the GURBANI and following it in daily LIFE !!
I used to have a friend who was a fanatic supporter of "airconditioning" the Sach Khand - actually SUKHASSAN ROOM...heat etc to SGGS !! BUT when ever there was  a powerfailure...he wouldnt go in and FAN SGGS !!! He preferred to go to the Kotha to cool off !! (his own huge deh )
Regards

Gyani jarnail Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 14, 2008)

PK70 Ji, Beautifully put. i agree 150% !!

REGARDS


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## pk70 (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*

*
 Namjap ji and Gyani Jarnail singh ji

I applaud your views on Sant/ Babas/ Dehdhari gurus.
When we have Guru Granth Sahib to guide us all the time why should we  look for dehdharis? Real devoted high spiritual gursikhs are not even known to many. I have witnessed it.  If teachings of Guru Granth Sahib cannot help us, no sant can either; it is within to look into. Sadh Sangat is that where inspiration of His Nam is infused( M-1),an environment in which His Nam blossoms, all sant shows are  staged to milk money, grasp power. All we see around  are those show - money making tactics. I bow to the great Sant of this century" Bhagat Puran Singh ji Pingarwale. I wish I could hug him, unfortunately I was not lucky enough !!!!!"
*


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*



pk70 said:


> *
> Namjap ji and Gyani Jarnail singh ji
> 
> I applaud your views on Sant/ Babas/ Dehdhari gurus.
> ...



I WASNT fortunate enough to hug him either...never saw him...only came to know him and his work after he was long gone..when the Pingalwara authorities sent me  a parcel of all his works....  .now try and make up for it by giving my daswandh to his institution the Pingalwarra. People should make it  a point to go visit the pingalwara when in Amritsar..and see the true legacy of a true bahagat....not "hidden"..not "Gupt"..and not constantly  in public eye  either !!..just pure  selfless sewa and nothing else...

Gyani jarnail Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*

Gurfateh

Well when we talk about some people standing 100 behind Guru Granth Sahib Ji,often these guys bring out very low level interpetaion of Guru Granth Sahib Ji as if it is based upon dulistic matterialism of karl marx(term is Dvandatmak Bhautik wad in hindi). As we are aware that Duja Bhav is something far away from Gurmat.
Few Examples
1.As per them Dhur Ki Bani(or verse from Base/pole ie Akal) is meant ,not to be from God but it means this is verses which are true in all time(incidently as per scince time is a false/realtive things,when das proved this thing to missionaries,they did not understand this thing at all as they were not scince backgorund but at the most graduate and that also in Punajbi etc.)
2.As per them Duja bhav means greed for Maya(Mammon),while Duja Bhav means to have faith in existance of anything else then Akal.Other name is Dutiya Bhav.
3.As per them Guru Granth Sahib Ji(and thier explantion based upon marxist dulisitc matterialism) is supereme Guru.They do not recoganse God and thats what they send SMS's to das from term Satiguru refered to Akal,they tell it for our Ten Gurus and then Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.As per marxism,Peple line Lenin,Mao,stalin or commmunist manfesto is the supereme.
4.They are always very keen to point our discoverise made about natural sceinces in Guru Granth Sahib.They totaly igone the classsical work of inventions done by Tenth Master in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji.When das asks them the reason behind the discoveris,the methodology adopted by Gurus to discover(where were the labs etc?) they have no answer.Das has answer that it was devotion and relaisation of truth due to devotion for one who only is true.And that also by will of that who is true that Gurus came with the discoveries.But as a scintist,das always tells Sikhs or Muslims guys to desits from relay on western discoverises as often as we proceeded with newer descoveries due to enhancement of technologiies.We find that old theory was false and newer theory is better(no theory is ever best).Best Example as brother DR Khalsa can give is that newer finding about Aids that ,it may nont be an old virus but combination of viruses.
5.Lastly people relying upon dulsitic matterialism are the most illogical(while they claim to be moving upon scintific logic/Communst call it Scentific temper).As logic is based upon axiom,which are illogical.Then logic is one of the Hindu philosophy of Nayay,upon which Arya Samaj is based and upon same Nayay did Gyani Bhag Singh Ji ambala wrote some new defination of Auo Sikh Satiguru Ke Pyario and used term Nayay in there(he was an Arya Samaji before conversion).

Using logic over symblism and taking things in littral things ruins the truth.Das will only use one of their methodology of interpetation.It will be proven.

So Kyo Manda Akhiye Jin Jame Rajan.Why call that Bad who gave birth To Kings.They treat it as pro feminst statment by Guru.It litteraly means that why to call that Bad,who gave birth to kings.By thier logic, we are been prevented by Guru from desisting to say evil for those who give birht to more then one king.Ie Mother of one then one king.

Thier attack on Banis outside Guru Granth Sahib Ji gets extended in Bhatt Bani and Bhagat Bani.Later they move to undermine Holyness of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Thie reason to attack devinity is,there with the fact that,Sikhism is the only idelogy perfect to ****er socialism.So by eating it out after intruding in them,they will make socialism safe.Das can elaborate that how we are better then socialism.RSS intrusion etc. are more a way to let people be afraid of some hidden enemy(maybe they themselves acting as a hidden enmey are using the same modus operandi as they balme RSS for) or making Sants etc scrap goat is a way to put curtion above the own misdeeds.

Das is not giving the clean chit to RSS or Sants.But these SSI Canada are no were less fundamentalists,then say AKJ or DDT.As we see that cadres of MCC are dye hard commited to thier ideology,be it in India or in Nepal.

How will they end,Das has seen the start of thier end.Only yhing das could say about them is thier end is not from outside.Some aggresive idiots,who were first in DDT,then moved to AKJ,making them weak,have now joined these missionaries.Die hard missionaries,who spent all thier life,are been side lined and are in delima.

As Bhai Rajkhalsa knows.BJP is defeated not by congress but by RSS cadres why? as RSS workers who are in BJP for decades are super ceded by new entrants from congress.Similar temdency has started in missionaries.Das hopes that complex mind of das gave info as clear as it could be.Akal Bless.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Jun 15, 2008)

Gurfateh

Anysikh,who is one with Akal,has attained salvation while being alive or is Khalsa,is saint.
But such people very few in Kaliyuga.There could be more of an imposters.

What should be the test?

One who tells to do good is an imposter as he trys to be be guide.

one who tells to surrender to the will of God.Should be respected.

But that person also should not be worshipped.Only if Akal has mercy on us,will we attain Khalsa hood.Franckyl speaking many Anti Sants could be moved nearer to Sant hood by Akal.

Das initally use to feel that Santism is Hindu thing in Panth.But Saints are there in orthodox and catholic also.In Sufis also.But one qustion in this regard,in our case are they not due to hindu influence.Or any differance between the Hindu and Sikh saints?There are very less differance betyween sufi and Hindu Saints yet there is a great diffrance between Hindus and Catholics?

Answers needed.


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## spnadmin (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*

Gyani ji

Thank you for the information that points out why the title of this thread is unfortunate. The information below, reported by Gyani ji , may set the record straight. 

*quoted material* AAd ji has tried her very best to pull this thread from going overboard/sunk due to bad titling.
1. The Singh Sabha international is a US based Organsiation( Roseville California) that publishes the monthly Bulletin "sikh Bulletin". The Founder of this Organsiation had very bad personal experience with one of the worst "Modern thugghs aka sants..called Sant baba AMARSINGH of Burundi NANAKSAR". This Sant had cheated him out of vast piece of land/buildings in the name of "Sikhi"...and was forced to give it all back after a lengthy court case. This sant is also one of those SANTS Permanently BANNED from entering MALAYSIA since the early 1970's due to serious charges. Singh Sabha International Blog...    AND     Welcome to Singh Sabha International Canada  the
The Sikh Bulletin: November-December 2007. *end quote*

*The title and some of the other reported content of this thread is factually and historically false, most unfortunate.

*Please forgive any embarrassment Members of Singh Sabha International that the thread may cause you.


----------



## Admin (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Who is a True Sant?*

*Admin Note: 

Dear Sunsingh Ji,

Thread title has been generalised to avoid sect bashing... please get your information right before starting such a thread against active sikh organisations. This is a friendly warning... 

To reinterate aad0002 Ji point, SPN apologies for any embarrassment members of Singh Sabha International that the thread may cause you.

Gurfateh

SPN Administration
*


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## sunsingh (Jun 15, 2008)

vijaydeep Singh said:


> Gurfateh
> 
> Anysikh,who is one with Akal,has attained salvation while being alive or is Khalsa,is saint.
> But such people very few in Kaliyuga.There could be more of an imposters.
> ...



All religions have sants. It seems to me that many sants in the Hindu dharm set themselves up as gurus, and this is accepted by Hindus as ok. In our religion the true sants are always subservient to the Guru and lead people to the Guru's feet. Even if one reaches bhramgyan (stage of being one with God and Guru), they still are the Guru's sikh.

In the Catholic religion they have saints, and one is considered a saint if recognised as such by the Church. there are many Sikhs who are saints (have a saintly heart, saintly behaviour), however few are sants. Sant is a very high spiritual stage, whereas saint is not dependant upon avastha. The word saint is often used in the english translation of sant which adds to the confusion.


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## sunsingh (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Who is a True Sant?*



Aman Singh said:


> *Admin Note:
> 
> Dear Sunsingh Ji,
> 
> ...



With all due respect, they host the video on their website, clearly they are giving support to those who promote these views.
I am still not convinced that SSI does not hold these views. Please show me how they do not hold these views, as I am interested in learning more about them.


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## spnadmin (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Who is a True Sant?*

sunsingh ji

Both Gyani ji and I have explained this many times now right in this thread.

*Yesterday I placed a phone call to Canada to talk to people involved in this organization.* 

It is a respectable organization that backs a wide variety of informational resources about Sikhi. 

Not only is the founder of Singh Sabha International all about protecting the innocent public, because he was once harmed by a fake baba, but the people who support the organization and do seva for that organization, in many cases were themselves harmed by fake babas. The video is a Nanaksar produced video. SSI - Canadia has put it on the site to *WARN *people.


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## Archived_member3 (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International*

I have been in touch with Hardev Singh Shergill for a long time and he's an editor trying to keep Sikh Bulletin alive. Sikh Review was unavailable for a long time and now is back. Hardev ji never preached violence he only wanted to fight corruption in the SGPC.  Kala Afghana was in danger many times and couldn't give speeches in USA or Canada. Where is freedom in contemporary Sikh groups?  Let's understand Sikh world isn't India/Punjab but encompass the whole mankind.


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## Archived_member3 (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Who is a True Sant?*

I want to add if I lived in USA/Canada I'd probably be a member of Singh Sabha Movement that is trying to bring true Sikhi - and not the contrary - to our con temporary world. Of course they have to defy petrified and corrupt institutions. Akal Takhat should be immaculate as a divine institution but human beings fail most of time. I'm openly pro reform movements inside Sikh Panth but don't agree with a sect, 3HO, which bashed Kamalla Kaur and many other former members who denounced their brain washing 
methods.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 15, 2008)

WHY so much pre0ccupation with "SANT"...?
Gurbani also uses the words SAADH..GURMUKH..GUR..GURU..SATGUR.... etc hundreds of times...

Most of the FAKES ( who were initially SANTS...have moved away from the OVER CROWDED "SANT SAMAAJ" ( Oh yes they have a TRADE UNION Called sant Samaaj to take care of themselves and have Pardhaans and Skattars Treasurers just like any trade union)...have MOVED ON to the "less crowded" fileds of SATGURU Jagjit Singh...GURU Gurinder Singh..etc etc...
Those still stuck in the "SANT" section are on the way towards...SATGUR..GURU...as the Namdahrees did after a century or so..and the radhasoamis did after a few decades....give the Present day "SANTS" (with deras named Nnaksar/parmeshar dwar/etc etc) a few decades....or a century..and they will become those "Advanced Sants:....
ONE SANT for ALL TIME...- GURU GRANTH SAHIB ONLY...... Sarab kala Bharpoor...Sampooran..all Complete...SANT-SIPAHI !!! This SANT SIPAHI is all the Khalsa panth needs !! Churn GURBANI and you get MAKHANI...churn water..and you get WATER !! Remember Kabir....

Gyani jarnail Singh


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## pk70 (Jun 15, 2008)

(quote)
Churn GURBANI and you get MAKHANI...churn water..and you get WATER !! Remember Kabir....
*
Gyani Jarnail Singh ji,

It is beautiful, so right in context of "Santmenia"*


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## Astroboy (Jun 16, 2008)

Skattars. lol


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## Admin (Jun 16, 2008)

*Admin Note: To avoid confusion, two separate topics on Sants in different forums have been merged. Kindly be informed.
*


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## vijaydeep Singh (Jun 16, 2008)

Gurfateh
Sant Nirankaris are the outshoots of an idealogy like that of prsent days missioaries.
Radhswamis,acha Sauda etc from Nirmalas.Namdharis from Nihungs.

Soon a new brand of Gurudom will be there Das has heard a person claiming that  Veer Bhupinder Singh is his Guru(Drkhalsa were present then).Maan Singh Nirankari Ji also wrote an article in spokesman,telling that Wahiguru means the human Guru and not the God.

So this challenge of human Gurudom is not from Sants.Das is aware that once a lady follower of ASutos came to Gurudwara in north Delhi,She preached this thing to people over there that a human Guru like Nanak is needed to open the Tenth gate(Dasam Dwar).She opposed das's eating the meat.She touchefd her Trikuti for Dasam Dwar(which is wrong place).

Das told her that let her bring Mr Asutosh and we with Guru in Five Beloved once will open his Tenth Gate.


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## Archived_member3 (Jun 16, 2008)

Dear Members,

I'm realizing all threads and respective answers aim to discuss Sikhee in  its own realm without any effort to  make it plain for non-Sikhs from other cultural background which corresponds to  almost  100% of mankind. I do believe Gurbani has the power to change lives and not only be a matter of discussions within any forum. First and foremost bravery in our age corresponds to be a skilled devote able to show people why Gurus' heritage are vital to enhance our life in all aspects. No weapons are necessary, only  coherent testimony. For this reason kirpan could be very small, a pin in some cases. Of course I'm talking about places,cities and countries  other than Punjab. It's a myth to think AKJ garments, no matter how they're beautiful, could be our daily clothes. 

BK


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## vijaydeep Singh (Jun 16, 2008)

Gurfateh


Brazilian Kaur said:


> Dear Members,
> 
> I'm realizing all threads and respective answers aim to discuss Sikhee in its own realm without any effort to make it plain for non-Sikhs from other cultural background which corresponds to almost 100% of mankind. I do believe Gurbani has the power to change lives and not only be a matter of discussions within any forum. First and foremost bravery in our age corresponds to be a skilled devote able to show people why Gurus' heritage are vital to enhance our life in all aspects. No weapons are necessary, only coherent testimony. For this reason kirpan could be very small, a pin in some cases. Of course I'm talking about places,cities and countries other than Punjab. It's a myth to think AKJ garments, no matter how they're beautiful, could be our daily clothes.
> 
> BK


 
Respected Sister,

Das does agrees to you comments.

Das is batised from Budhadal along with two more members of SPN and hope that more will join us.

In there at any point of time it is OK to remove any 5 Kakars(we consider Blue Keski as a Kakar).So in Samagams of budhadals,das wears Bana(which yourself are saying is dress of AKJ,while thier founder Singh Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh Ji got inspire to be dress up like us and keep Beebeck(will be explained below) and Nihungs also gave him respect for being from our linage).But unlike AKJ brethern Das sometime wears only one langot(a kind pantees,used in wresting).While he swims ,he also wears swining costume(with a head geard above blue Keski).

In us we have Five kuerhits which are to be safe guraded against.
1.Not to commit adultary ie to sleep with married lady with other person or prostitute.
2.Not to use Tobbaco at all and not be be addicted to any drug or alchohal.
3.Not to eat Halal meat.
4.Not to shave any body part.
5.Not to colour any hairs.

Outside this bebeick Rahit(more stricter code of conduct) is there in us also which is deto with AKJ but there are there option.
1.Not to keep beebeck at all.
2.Keep as much beeebeck as you could keep(as situation of evil era of Kaliyua Permits)
3.Keep the full Beebeck as it is done with AKJ.

Sprituality has nothing to do with beebeck but it is there to conserve our traditons an culture(nothing to do with Punjabis but with Sikhs as we have Beebeckis in Bihar and Deccan also).

Lastly as yourself say that when das went into Air Flight,he also kept a small kirpan in thread of his neck.

But after alighitng big Kirpan was worn.In India Kirpan is OK with some size in domestic flights while not OK in international flights the world over after 9/11.

But still when we talk of having kirpan in the size of pin,we need to understand that Kirpan is there to defend the weak.If we do not know its use then it is useless even if it is of 3 feets.So he should know how to use it and we should have the motivation to make use of it at appropirate time.

But still when we say up to the size of pin,there has been the tradition of martial arts of Muslims and Brahmins called Bankait and Bannaut respectivly and is dying.In Brahmins traditon a small ring was tied to to the Janeu and its sudden bullet like swing was known to give harm to the opponent(das himself is a marital artist with brown black belt in Karatedo and Tai Kuan do).So if we need to keep the pin size Kirpan,we either coudl develop our own martial art(like Jews ahve developed Krav Maga) or could learn the use of pin from Muslims and Brahmins.

Yet das is apprihensive that after making kirpan of a pin size,tommorow some can tell us to have smaller kes.As Kala Afghan Sahib also talks of Gyan Kharag.And one of his suppertor,who is also our member of SPN and runs an online magzine from US,also calls hair keeping Sikhs as orthodox.

In an interviews with Mr G.S.Lamba Maan Singh Nirankari hastold that some of our Gurus have also undergone shaving of Mundan.

Another referance givne here is from old text of Sikhs(das has forgottan the name but could be found from www.amritworld.com 's subject of Sahijdhari.In that we are told that Sikhs from Brahmins and Khatri side(of Delhi) refused to belive that Tenth Master has stopped the Bhadani kriya(shaving the sons's head on fathers death).

Case was sent to local court and Guru sent message against the Khatris and Brahmins.

As per Anti hair Guru Granth Sahib Purists,this may mean that only after Tenth Master,did Sikhs start to keep hairs.

As after his going back to Sachkhand,Guruship is with Guru Granth Sahib,and keeping of hair as code is not in there.Das was givne a qoute by such fellow at some other forum.And what das replied is also givne.(Das did discuss this matter with missioary Amarjeet Singh Ji of Delhi).


ਕਬੀਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਇਕ ਸਿਉ ਕੀਏ ਆਨ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਜਾਇ ॥ 
कबीर प्रीति इक सिउ कीए आन दुबिधा जाइ ॥ 
Kabīr parīṯ ik si&shy;o kī&shy;ė ān ḏubiḏẖā jā&shy;ė. 
Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart. 

ਭਾਵੈ ਲਾਂਬੇ ਕੇਸ ਕਰੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਘਰਰਿ ਮੁਡਾਇ ॥੨੫॥ 
भावै लांबे केस करु भावै घररि मुडाइ ॥२५॥ 
Bẖāvai lāŉbė kės kar bẖāvai gẖarar mudā&shy;ė. ||25|| 
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25|| 
(ang 1365)


 Das replied.

ਪੰਨਾ 918, ਸਤਰ 5
ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਸਭੁ ਸਉਪਿ ਗੁਰ ਕਉ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਮੰਨਿਐ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
तनु मनु धनु सभु सउपि गुर कउ हुकमि मंनिऐ पाईऐ ॥
Ŧan man ḏẖan sabẖ sa&shy;up gur ka&shy;o hukam mani&shy;ai pā&shy;ī&shy;ai.
Surrender body, mind, wealth, and everything to the Guru; obey the Order of His Will, and you will find Him.
ਮਃ 3   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

So as Guru has body with 5 ks and our form and body should be of Guru so as that mark we wear 5ks. Form of Panth Guru of Panj Piare we have been givne 5 Ks as they also have been wearing it since 1699 AD.

In our dressing we have to follow the Guru Panth. Guru Granth Sahib purists have no answer to this as dress of Human has to copied by Human devotees who ahve been given the status of Guru Roop Sadh Sangat.There are good lots of contradiciton with Bani of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and present day Sikh life style.We have to understand the meaning of Bani in that context and our life style in the prsent context.Das will open a bani onto Sant Fareed Ji,which could be followed in some context and not universally and Guru Mahraj sometime put thier comments within the Bhagat Bani or Tenth master clarified it later.Akal Bless.


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## sunsingh (Jun 16, 2008)

"Not only is the founder of Singh Sabha International all about protecting the innocent public, because he was once harmed by a fake baba, but the people who support the organization and do seva for that organization, in many cases were themselves harmed by fake babas. The video is a Nanaksar produced video. SSI - Canadia has put it on the site to *WARN * people.   "

SSI Canada is also doing nindya of true sants in this video. As I've stated earlier, there is a difference between warning of fake sants and doing nindya of true sants. It seems quite clear to me that it is more than merely protecting the public from pakhandees, but an attempt to attack the teachings of the individual shown at the start of the video by portraying them as dehdhari pakhandees. You have not shown an iota of evidence that SSI Canada does not believe this. It's crystal clear what they are trying to do. 


 It seems strange that the word sant, which is used numerous times in Gurbani, causes such a preoccupation with some people. To the extent that they deny the existence of true sants, selectively qoute Gurbani while ignoring the rest, and accuse people who believe they exist (as Gurbani teaches) of being 'sant followers' rather than followers of the Guru. Some also resort to pulling up instances of fake sants to disprove the existence of real sants, meanwhile ignoring the fact that counterfeit money only exists to copy real money, cubix zirconia only exists to copy diamonds.


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## spnadmin (Jun 16, 2008)

Sunsingh ji

The only thing left for a forum leader to do is ask that SSI and SSI -Canada  respond to your claim. What exactly would you like someone to explain that would convince you that they are not doing nindhya?


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## spnadmin (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: Who is a True Sant?*



Aman Singh said:


> *Admin Note:
> 
> Dear Sunsingh Ji,
> 
> ...



*Also, this is Aman ji's friendly warning -- you are in violation of a forum rule. *


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## vijaydeep Singh (Jun 17, 2008)

Gurfateh

Bhai Sun Singh Ji,

Why we should be afraid of SSI Canada? Are you sure that Sants etc. have not done any harm to Panth?

They have made mockery of Gurmat.Sants along with a some jatha has made a life of an Amritdhari Sikh more difficult then that of a Brahmin.

The ritaul they preach and which are not as per Gurmat have made both poor and educated guys go away from thier brand of Gurmat.

Reason for one time popular sanatan Sikhs of UK(more a reactionary) or present time radicals like Kala Afghana or SSI Canada has to be put on ritualism preached by Sants and some jathas and on top of it preaching it in the way a fundamentalist does.

so acts of Sants etc them selves are making dis enchanted Sikhs move for non belivers say leftists in the guise of people like Kala Afghana Ji.Better is to preach people love for God and service of humnity then defending Sants etc. and thier often un sikh acts.you yourself could attain sant hood after following Gurbani.

Das has no disrepect for Sants but to have thier life style or to follow what thier preach,we all should build up our own monestry or Dera.

Often das finds patit(who have cut thier hairs) punjabi boys telling das to not to eat meat ,while being Amritdhari or do not tie the beard etc.Such things they have found themselve difficult to keep,so instead of getting themselve batisied they have cut thier hairs.thanks to Sants.

Maryada or code of Sants is OK for them but not for general public.Sorry for not very frinedly words but to counter SSI Canada and thier onslught and interospection is needed within the Sants.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Jun 17, 2008)

Gurfateh

Das here also wants to say that Catholics not only defeated protestants but also made more converts only due to reformed groups like Jesuits.So our protestants could be curbed only if Sants get reformed.


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## drkhalsa (Jun 17, 2008)

> They have made mockery of Gurmat.Sants along with a some jatha has made a life of an Amritdhari sikh more difficult then that of a Brahmin.



Thats the Crux of problem I guess.


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## sunsingh (Jun 17, 2008)

Sants have not done harm to the panth. In fact, sants such as Baba Attar Singh of Mastauna, have brought many into the fold of Sikhi. His student, Baba Teja Singh, is actually the reason that Sikhs were not deported from BC a long time ago. It is through his court battles that our Gurdwaras around the world have the right to fly the nishaan sahib. He has also defended many other rights. It was with the vision of Baba Attar Singh, that the Baru Sahib branch of academies were opened up to bring Sikhi back. They have done immense seva. I've already stated earlier on in the thread, when I refer to sants, I mean those who have reached the avastha to actually be sants, not referring to the outside label.

Moreover, Guru Granth Sahib ji tells us to learn about Gurmat from sants.  I'm not sure what sants you are referring to when you mention difficult and complex rituals that lead people away from sikhi. Every teaching I have heard from sants has actually been pretty straightforward, and I have had the opportunity to listen to a fair bit of katha from various sants. Perhaps the rituals that are difficult and complex come from the asants who merely wear the outer garb?


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## pk70 (Jun 17, 2008)

*sunsingh ji

With all due  respect to you and your revered Sants, due to shameless display of  a lot of Sants  and Babas in the past, generally Sikh sangat has  grown reservations  about Babas and Sants. When these people are targeted to expose, those who are good, are also affected. You have been claiming that such and such is slandering your revered Sants but never cared how were they slandered incorrectly. The video shows them in prospective of their style, like having sun glasses to cover eyes even when they are not required. Their picture in the presence of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Thy ere are some arrows for the viewers to pay attention what is wrong. Can you question their shown arrows with proof? Most of your own article stands against so called Sants. So please prove how they pointed at your revered Sant inappropriately.*


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## sunsingh (Jun 21, 2008)

> With all due respect to you and your revered Sants, due to shameless display of a lot of Sants and Babas in the past, generally Sikh sangat has grown reservations about Babas and Sants. When these people are targeted to expose, those who are good, are also affected. You have been claiming that such and such is slandering your revered Sants but never cared how were they slandered incorrectly. The video shows them in prospective of their style, like having sun glasses to cover eyes even when they are not required. Their picture in the presence of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Thy ere are some arrows for the viewers to pay attention what is wrong. Can you question their shown arrows with proof? Most of your own article stands against so called Sants. So please prove how they pointed at your revered Sant inappropriately.



LOL, wearing sunglasses in conditions of low light is anti-gurmat right?

It's clearly showing nindya, anyone can see it. Any rational minded person with shardha in Gurbani can see it. There's no point in me responding any more to this discussion, which is going in circles with you sant ke nindaks unable to defend the video as not doing any nindya. 

btw, Sant Jarnail Singh ji's beliefs were the exact same as the other Taksaali sants shown in the video, I've noticed his picture is not shown. It's not politically viable, right?  Would automatically destroy the video maker's case.


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## spnadmin (Jun 21, 2008)

Jios all,

I am somewhat at a loss -- because I was not raised from childhood as a Sikh. Please someone explain to me why it is so difficult to have a discussion, a heated discussion, a lively discussion, an exchange of views, a debate, without used the word "nindya?" So a person disagrees, crosses an invisible line, and he or she is a slanderer? Frankly, I don't get it.

What is it with this nindya fixation? is this the mark of a Gurmukh?

There are many shabads where Guruji speaks against slander, especially slander against the Sants. These comments are directed to the reader or to a congregation as a invocation to reflect as individuals and as a congregation on how we stand in relation to divine truth, and in relation to dharma. These shabads are not like shooting a rocket across the bow of a ship and saying OK folks, "It is OK to call one another a slanderer in My Name." And if I am getting this wrong, then please tell me before I take the fact that God is nirbhao and nirvair too seriously.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 21, 2008)

The word "NINDIYA" is used too loosely...Its an act of self defence..self deception...
If we read Bhagat bani...one cna see Bhagat Kabir Ji uses such STRONG LANGUAGE ( if needed) to make a point.
Reda Guru Nanak Jis shabads....He CONDEMNS the JAINS... who shave their heads Bald..rub swah ( ashes) ..or pull out all hairs by their roots..the YOGIS who keep LONG HAIR but never wash them and keep it tied in knots filled with dirt...and the Followers of a weird religion who pass motion and then use a stick to "search it" and SNIFF the vapours as a RELIGIOUS DUTY ???......and such. The Gurbani is NOT about "INDIVIDUALS"....its about their ACTIONS which are WRONG..and DONT lead to Gurmukhta..Merger with Waheguru. Guru Ji calls those who go to the Forests, live naked, and eat Kand-Mool (Roots and fruits etc - VEGETARIAN DIET)...and those that STAY BACK..but FAST and go hungry as FOOLS..MOORAKH.  Strong words..MOORAKH !!! Is that doing NINDIYA ??
Guru nanak addressed the KINGS and RULERS as Rajeh SHHEHN...and MUkaddam KUTTEH _ DOGS !! Very strong WORDS..dont you think ??
Any one of US dare to call the KING a KUTTAH ?? Just try and do that to even a beggar/Bum/Drug Addict good for nothing... and see what happens ?? IS that NINDIYA ??
Then Why does Bhagat Ji write in a Shabad..NINDO LOGO MUJH KO NINDO..Ninda mujhko kharee PIYAREE ..I LOVE people doing NINDA of me ??..because doing Nindiya is like a Mother washing her babies NAPPIES...with Her TONGUE instead of Water...GROSS ?? Not really..becasue doing ninda is like washign someones dirty linen for FREE...the ONLY CONDITION IS...the "NINDA" has got to be the TRUTH..the absolute TRUTH !!! So calling a THIEF a "THIEF" is NOT doing ninda..its telling the TRUTH. All those fake Sants/saadhs out there doing havoc are NOT sants/saadhs..they are Benaras Ke THUGGH ( Now Amritsar Ke Thuggh ) according to Bhagat Kabir Ji...that is the TRUTH..so its NOT NINDA.
TRUTH is telling the TRUTH takes COURAGE....it takes even MORE COURAGE to ADMIT the TRUTH..TRUTH really HURTS..BAD !!! Truth is HIGH but higher still is TRUTHFUL LIVING !!Bhagat Kabir ji went ahead and called the Pandits of Benaras..THUGGHS....Guru nanak ji went to see the greatest Thuggh of all..Sajjan Thuggh...and called him..OOJAL KEHA CHILKANNA...Your OUTSIDE clothes are so silken white..BUT your HEART is as  Black as COAL !! Sajjan realised the TRUTH standing before him..and confessed and turned over a new leaf and became Sajjan !! WE LACK the conviction of our Beleifs...we can NEVER face up to a Modern "Sajjan Thuggh Bba Ji/maharaj Ji"..and call him OOJal keha chilkanna....and in order to cover up our own inadequacies/fear/self defence...we say..NO NO Ninda is Bad...dont do ninda of a Sant baba Ji..read SUKHMANI SAHIB...what great Sikhs we are....we push our own inadequacies on to Sukhmani Sahib ( and Guru Ji)...as if Sukhmani Sahib ji is a License to all FRAUD SANTS !!! Sukhmani sahib begs to be READ with VICHAAR and intellect..aakleen sahib seveah...not BLINDLY....we fail to do it justice if we read it superficially....
Cant we stop for just a second and consider....BHAGAT KABIR JI DECLARES.." I SEARCHED AND SEARCHED...and searched..for an elevated SOUL....all i found were FRAUDS... Now IF a BHAGAT like Kabir Ji is saying so forcefully that finding a GENUINE SANT is like finding a Needle in a Haystack...how can WE..ordinary humans declare each and every round turban/chola wearer "His Holiness Shri 1000000008 Sant ji maharaj Ji "..and any word agaisnt His Holiness as "Ninda" ??? IS our spiritual vastha HIGHER than Bhagat Kabir Ji ??? Logical ?? Any of these thousands of His Holineessess capable of even ONE TUK that can be compared to Bhaagt Kabir Jis Gurbani ?? WHY cant these holinesses write Books...teachings..katha...( because they are UNEDUCATED BRAHMGIANIS who learnt the art of deception to make fools out of educated UNBRAHMGIANISlike us..and if we find out the TRUTH..they threaten and blackmail us by quoting SukhMani Sahib...Beautiful ??? you bet it is...
So my two cents worth...DONT BE AFRAID to tell the truth..speak the truth...its NOT ninda...not by a long shot....see a FRAUD..tell everyone about it...Hiding it may be "a crime"..not exposing !!

Regards to all
Gyani jarnail Singh

Regards
Gyani jarnail Singh


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## spnadmin (Jun 21, 2008)

Gyani ji

Thank you for one more passionate essay in which you light the path without condemnation and without looking down on people like me. 

You are correct. If someone is telling the truth, the truth cannot be slander i.e., nindya.

But here is the problem. So many debaters who use this term are 100 percent certain that they are in possession of the TRUTH -- all 24 karats of it -- and their opponents in a debate are not in possession of the Truth, and are therefore doing Nindya. 

So maybe those rockets shot across the bow of a boat are really heat-seeking missles.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 21, 2008)

btw, Sant Jarnail Singh ji's beliefs were the exact same as the other Taksaali sants shown in the video, I've noticed his picture is not shown. It's not politically viable, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Would automatically destroy the video maker's case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Jarnail Singh ji died for His cause..soemthing that is a page out of Sikh history...and he honoured his ardass. Most of the others havent even sacrificed a single drop of their blood..nay many of them dont beleive in the SIPAHI part of Gurmat..only the SANT part is supreme to them. How many of these sants came out in the open in 1984 ??? How many came out after the Govt had cleared the Punjab and made it a graveyard. Its not Ninda to speak the Truth.
2. Also notice that most of the time the "Good sants" are the dead ones....the LIVING good sants should be named and defended by showing what GOOD they are doing for the Khalsa Panth..with proof..then maybe more will accept....beating the dholl about baba attar singh and baba nand singh and etc etc is taking refuge in the past....remember Guru Gobind Singh Ji SACRIFICED EVERY MEMBER OF HIS FAMILY and declared Chhar mooyeh to kia hooah jeewat kayee hazaar...SO Far NOT a single sikh has come even near that great sacrifice...modern day sants are no different.
Dont hide behidn the scare word "ninda"...brign out the solid unrefutable PROOF of good deeds of Living present day Sants..and...we may beleive...after all just see the Living Proof of Pingalwarra is unrefutable...its so easy...no one can dispute the saintliness of late bahgat pooran singh...its NOT DIFFICULT at all.
Regards
 Gyani Jarnail Singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 21, 2008)

aad0002 said:


> Gyani ji
> 
> Thank you for one more passionate essay in which you light the path without condemnation and without looking down on people like me.
> 
> ...


 
ad ji, you are absolutley right about my "passion"..and yes i do try and emulate our Father Guru Ji in treating everyone as my equal..Hum Nhain changgeh bura nahin Koi..( I do try..its difficult..but i try..).

And yes its very common human trait....each of us in a "debate" is convinced that only we have caught the black cat in the dark room....so each shouts..I have Got it..i have got it....in reality ???? there is no black cat to begin with !! AS Moulder  ( X files) always says..The TRUTH is OUT THERE..somewhere....so elusive...so near..yet so far... Thats why a Group Mods work is very difficult...walking on the sharp blade edge..not fall off or get feet cut in the process ( I have tried it  many times...and gave up as i tend to get very "passionate" and things get out of control..so i do envy you your fine job- Guru ji Kirpa karan...not everyone is cut out to be a "capable judge"..fair to both sides...
Lets keep on walking on the path of our GURU....as fast as we can...and as well as we can.....Heat Seeking Missliles are so fast and furious...we just got to learn how to avoid them....my personal experience on the Net for the past 15 years...there are ONLY about FIVE such persons who have a large stock of these missiles which they use on every Forum to shut down their opponents- favourite topics..dsm granth-meat eating-sants-miracles..angels,bhoots,jamdoots,84 lakh joons, reincarnations,  based on word for word literal translation of SGGS. Everywhere the same posters, same arguments and as a Last RESORT... same personal attacks.)
MY Consolation..MY GURU JI also faced same..if not worse...Hot Plates, and more...compared to me..just words....so i carry on the "crusade...forced to use an unsuitable word for lack of a better one )
Regards
Gyani jarnail Singh


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## Archived_Member_19 (Jun 21, 2008)

The kingdom of Heaven lies in one's heart



just felt like quoting this dialogue


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## spnadmin (Jun 21, 2008)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> ad ji, you are absolutley right about my "passion"..and yes i do try and emulate our Father Guru Ji in treating everyone as my equal..Hum Nhain changgeh bura nahin Koi..( I do try..its difficult..but i try..).
> 
> And yes its very common human trait....each of us in a "debate" is convinced that only we have caught the black cat in the dark room....so each shouts..I have Got it..i have got it....in reality ???? there is no black cat to begin with !! AS Moulder  ( X files) always says..The TRUTH is OUT THERE..somewhere....so elusive...so near..yet so far... Thats why a Group Mods work is very difficult...walking on the sharp blade edge..not fall off or get feet cut in the process ( I have tried it  many times...and gave up as i tend to get very "passionate" and things get out of control..so i do envy you your fine job- Guru ji Kirpa karan...not everyone is cut out to be a "capable judge"..fair to both sides...
> Lets keep on walking on the path of our GURU....as fast as we can...and as well as we can.....Heat Seeking Missliles are so fast and furious...we just got to learn how to avoid them....my personal experience on the Net for the past 15 years...there are ONLY about FIVE such persons who have a large stock of these missiles which they use on every Forum to shut down their opponents- favourite topics..dsm granth-meat eating-sants-miracles..angels,bhoots,jamdoots,84 lakh joons, reincarnations,  based on word for word literal translation of SGGS. Everywhere the same posters, same arguments and as a Last RESORT... same personal attacks.)
> ...



Sat Nam


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 22, 2008)

amarsanghera said:


> The kingdom of Heaven lies in one's heart
> 
> 
> 
> just felt like quoting this dialogue



THIS is repeated many many times in GURBANI. The "SANT..SAADH..SAADHU..as in Sadh BHETNA..saadhu Bhetna...are all metaphors for "Communication" with the Creator" who is WITHIN.
Gurbani is Total experience of this "communication" achieved by our Gurus, Bhagats and the writers/contributors to SGGS. YES the Kingdom of Heaven is indeed WITHIN US.."Harmandar" Har Sajiah....Guru Amardass Ji si saying about the HUMAN BODY....our Body is the HARMANDIR abode of HAR.
2. We Sikhs have dragged our "Gurbani" train off its TRACK..and begun to forcibly run it along the Dead End Track already closed down by Guru Ji...
Meaning that Guru nanak ji on His visit to MECCA was to show that ALLAH the Creator is NOT CONFINED to this one place...and Bhagat Ji asks..IF Allah is confined to the WEST..and RAAM is confined to the EAST..WHO TAKES care of the North and South ??
Now SIKHS have picked up this discarded/discredited piece of "theory"..and applied it to..WAHEGURU is in Harmandir Sahib..Akal takhat...SACH KHAND..or in HEMKUNT...  when in Fact Waheguru is Everywhere...
www.sabdvartara.org Bhai Mohinder Singh SDO explains so beautifully with actual examples from Gurbani of SGGS. All KIrtan is Downloadable/streamable.

Gyani Jarnail Singh


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## spnadmin (Jun 22, 2008)

Gyani ji

I tried to contact the link below, but the "server is not found" The goal was to start a thread using the thread resources. Would you check to see if there is another url? Thanks so much.

Could the link be http://www.sabadvartara.org?

This site, if it is the one you speak of, is in Punjabi but they have an audio section that seems to be in Punjabi and in English. I don't know for sure.

http://www.svaudio.org


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jun 23, 2008)

aad jio, gurfateh. so sorry. my mistake in spelling...the link is www.sabadvartara.org
and yes the www.svaudio.org is the same people.
another pdf in Gurmukhi/Punjabi on common words misinterpreted in Gurbani Sabad Vartara - Teerath - Teerath..Ishnnaan, Amrtisar, Sarovar , Ramdass etc.
http://cybereon.com/Gurmat_le_har_bol.pdf bilingual again in serious misinterprtations of Gurbani Concepts of Yoga, ear rings, naam japping thru mere repetition rote style etc etc.
Some of the Audios and movies are really good.
Gyani jarnail Singh


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## spnadmin (Jun 23, 2008)

Gyani ji

Thanks for confirming. We have a thread of discourses in Punjabi and those links might really be a good addition. 

:yes:


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## Sikh80 (Jun 24, 2008)

soeI sMqu ij BwvY rwm ] (867-14, goNf, mÚ 5)
  He alone is a Saint, who is pleasing to the Lord.

sMq goibMd kY eykY kwm ]1] rhwau ] (867-14, goNf, mÚ 5)
  The Saints, and God, have only one job to do. ||1||Pause||

[/FONT]  sMq kY aUpir dyie pRBu hwQ ] (867-15, goNf, mÚ 5)
  God gives His hand to shelter the Saints.

sMq kY sMig bsY idnu rwiq ] (867-15, goNf, mÚ 5)
  He dwells with His Saints, day and night.

swis swis sMqh pRiqpwil ] (867-15, goNf, mÚ 5)
  With each and every breath, He cherishes His Saints.

sMq kw doKI rwj qy twil ]2] (867-16, goNf, mÚ 5)
  He takes the power away from the enemies of the Saints. ||2||

sMq kI inMdw krhu n koie ] (867-16, goNf, mÚ 5)
  Let no one slander the Saints.

jo inMdY iqs kw pqnu hoie ] (867-16, goNf, mÚ 5)
  Whoever slanders them, will be destroyed.

ijs kau rwKY isrjnhwru ] (867-17, goNf, mÚ 5)
  One who is protected by the Creator Lord,

JK mwrau sgl sMswru ]3] (867-17, goNf, mÚ 5)
  cannot be harmed, no matter how much the whole world may try. ||3||

_And

_ nwrwiex swDsMig nrwiex ] (868-5, goNf, mÚ 5)
The Lord, the Lord, is in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy.


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## Sikh80 (Jun 24, 2008)

goNf ] (872-8)
  Gond:


jYsy mMdr mih blhr nw TwhrY ] (872-8, goNf, Bgq kbIr jI)
  As the house will not stand when the supporting beams are removed from within it,

nwm ibnw kYsy pwir auqrY ] (872-8, goNf, Bgq kbIr jI)
  just so, without the Naam, the Name of the Lord, how can anyone be carried across?


 kuMB ibnw jlu nw tIkwvY ] (872-8, goNf, Bgq kbIr jI)
  Without the pitcher, the water is not contained;


swDU ibnu AYsy Abgqu jwvY ]1] (872-9, goNf, Bgq kbIr jI)
_just so, without the Holy Saint, the mortal departs in misery. ||1|_|[/FONT]


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## Sikh80 (Jun 24, 2008)

A question
There is specific mention of Saadh, the Holy in Bani. I had quoted from the bani. In the context the meaning is very clear to me. It seems that Saadh/Sangat can feel the presence of the Lord more easily than an individual. Hence one is advised to be in the company of sangat. But what would be the position of a Saint.[When translated from Sadhu.] Nothing is superfluous and has to be assigned meaning. I fail to do so and would request if learned member can throw some light as to who is saadhu. 

Earler,It has been opined by pk 70 ji that one who takes to Naam abhiyaas is a sadhu. However, to me the State of sadhu /sadhoo should be much above the practitioners of naam in the ordinary senses of the word. In any case advice is sought  from the members. The term has not been discussed at length anywhere by the commentators as well.  

jYsy hlhr ibnw ijmI nhI boeIAY ] (872-10, goNf, Bgq kbIr jI)
  Without a farmer, the land is not planted;


 sUq ibnw kYsy mxI proeIAY ] (872-10, goNf, Bgq kbIr jI)
  without a thread, how can the beads be strung?


 GuMfI ibnu ikAw gMiT cVHweIAY ] (872-11, goNf, Bgq kbIr jI)
  Without a loop, how can the knot be tied?


 swDU ibnu qYsy Abgqu jweIAY ]2] (872-11, goNf, Bgq kbIr jI)
  Just so, without the Holy Saint, the mortal departs in misery. ||2||


 jYsy mwq ipqw ibnu bwlu n hoeI ] (872-11, goNf, Bgq kbIr jI)
  Without a mother or father there is no child;


 ibMb ibnw kYsy kpry DoeI ] (872-12, goNf, Bgq kbIr jI)
  just so, without water, how can the clothes be washed?


Gor ibnw kYsy Asvwr ] (872-12, goNf, Bgq kbIr jI)
  Without a horse, how can there be a rider?


 swDU ibnu nwhI drvwr ]3] (872-12, goNf, Bgq kbIr jI)
_Without the Holy Saint, one cannot reach the Court of the Lord. ||3||

The above line shows that the position of saint is almost equal to Guru or the God Himself. Thus anyone who has attained the jewel of Naam from the God Himself shall qualify for this. But when one has achieved the Naam from the God ,one may not even like to disclose this and hence even if we are able define and try to keep him bound in the definition the identification of Saint shall again be a problem. May be there should be a better explanation.
[/FONT]_


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## spnadmin (Jun 24, 2008)

Sikkh80 ji

In response to your comment:
_ The above line shows that the position of saint is almost equal to Guru or the God Himself. Thus anyone who has attained the jewel of Naam from the God Himself shall qualify for this. But when one has achieved the Naam from the God ,one may not even like to disclose this and hence even if we are able define and try to keep him bound in the definition the identification of Saint shall again be a problem. May be there should be a better explanation[/FONT]_

What makes Gurbani so subtle are lines like these.

So we have to consider that Giuruji is saying "the" Saint, not any saint or even "a" Saint. In grasping the meaning of the line the question that follows is Who is 'the" Saint that Guruji speaks of?

 swDU ibnu nwhI drvwr ]3] (872-12, goNf, Bgq kbIr jI)
_Without the Holy Saint, one cannot reach the Court of the Lord. ||3||
[/FONT]_
If we were left to the good offices of "a" Saint that we happened to meet, then would not all the good shelter and support of Sri Guru Granth Sahib be somehow undermined by a human influence of a human saint. Thinking that we are liberated by simran, meditation, jap and God's Grace, the line takes on a more specific meaning.


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## Sikh80 (Jun 24, 2008)

aad ji,

Your answer is totally in alignment with the sikh philosophy and we all have this kind of concept. Your answer thus is thought provoking. All that is being put forward is as to who is the 'saint' that has found such a high position that Guru Sahibs have stated this also:

yqI pRBU jnweI rsnw qyq BnI ] (456-4, Awsw, mÚ 5)
   As much as God has revealed to us, that much we can speak with our tongues.

Anjwnq jo syvY qyqI nh jwie gnI ] (456-4, Awsw, mÚ 5)
   Those unknown ones who serve You cannot be counted.

Aivgq Agnq AQwh Twkur sgl mMJy bwhrw ] (456-4, Awsw, mÚ 5)
   Imperishable, incalculable, and unfathomable is the Lord and Master; He is everywhere, inside and out.

srb jwick eyku dwqw nh dUir sMgI jwhrw ] (456-5, Awsw, mÚ 5)
   We are all beggars, He is the One and only Giver; He is not far away, but is with us, ever-present.

vis Bgq QIAw imly jIAw qw kI aupmw ikq gnI ] (456-5, Awsw, mÚ 5)
   He is in the power of His devotees; those whose souls are united with Him - how can their praises be sung?

iehu dwnu mwnu nwnku pwey sIsu swDh Dir crnI ]4]2]5] (456-6, Awsw, mÚ 5)
_May Nanak receive this gift and honor, of placing his head on the feet of the Holy Saints. _||4||2||5||[/FONT]

 Further the following line is again suggestive of the same concept.


 Awid AMiq byAMq Kojih sunI auDrn sMqsMg ibDy ] (456-16, Awsw, mÚ 5)

In the beginning and in the end, countless are those who seek the Lord. I have heard that the_ Society of the Saints_ is the way to salvation.

One has to bring reconciliation to this. Had it not been  required to be so ,there would not have been any inclusion of these satar/lines/tuks in Bani. But since we have it in Bani ;it should  connote a specific meaning.I do not have any answer for this and would not expect others to have ready made answer if the 'saint' so spoken is reflective of any individual or otherwise. 'Saint' may be reflective of 'sangat' in entirety as well. 

But it is only a conjecture and may not be correct.
Let us also have a look at the following.It also states clearly that Saint has to be assigned some specific meaning like we have the concept of Gurmukh and manmukh.
[/FONT]
hir AMimRq bUMd suhwvxI imil swDU pIvxhwru ] (134-12, mwJ, mÚ 5)
The drops of the Lord's Nectar are so beautiful! Meeting the Holy Saint, we drink these in.

And Further :

[/FONT]  swDu imlY pUrb sMjog ] (153-2, gauVI, mÚ 1)
One meets the Holy Saint only through perfect destiny.

And Further:

[/FONT]  kir syvw sMqw AMimRqu muiK pwhw jIau ] (173-3, gauVI mwJ, mÚ 4)
Let's serve the Saints[/FONT], and drink in the Ambrosial Nectar[/FONT]

You would agree with me that Saint is spread almost at many places in Gurbani.We have to exclude the saint as the one that we consider in normal parlance. Saint has to be a realized soul who has been blessed by the Lord Himself. Such a person would be a Brahmgyani and we have the attributes of Brahmgyani in Sukhmani sahib [Gaudi]

Brahmgyani has been stated to be almost a GOd and if we take this term in that sense some questions can stand to rest. Nonetheless , it requires a careful consideration.


May be Later when the haziness is gone.


Regards
[/FONT]


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## Sikh80 (Jun 24, 2008)

sMq jnw imil pwieAw myry goivdw myrw hir pRBu sjxu sYxI jIau ] (174-1, gauVI mwJ, mÚ 4_)__
Meeting the Saints, O my Lord of the Universe, I have found my Lord God, my Companion, my Best Friend._ 


mY mylhu sMq myrw hir pRBu sjxu mY min qin BuK lgweIAw jIau ] (174-3, gauVI mwJ, mÚ 4)
_O Saints, unite me with my Lord God, my Best Friend; my mind and body are hungry for Him._

The above lines are put separately so that other lines can be posted here as and when the term 'saint' appears to me during further  reading and till suitable meaning is found out for the term _'Saint'_.
*First Find*
[/FONT]  sMq kw lIAw Driq ibdwrau ] (867-13, goNf, mÚ 5)
  One who is cursed by the Saints, is thrown down on the ground.
 
sMq kw inMdku Akws qy twrau ] (867-13, goNf, mÚ 5)
  The slanderer of the Saints is thrown down from the skies.
 
sMq kau rwKau Apny jIA nwil ] (867-13, goNf, mÚ 5)
  I hold the Saints close to my soul.

sMq auDwrau qqiKx qwil ]1] (867-14, goNf, mÚ 5)
  The Saints are saved instantaneously. ||1||

soeI sMqu ij BwvY rwm ] (867-14, goNf, mÚ 5)
  He alone is a Saint, who is pleasing to the Lord.

sMq goibMd kY eykY kwm ]1] rhwau ] (867-14, goNf, mÚ 5)
  The Saints, and God, have only one job to do. ||1||Pause||

sMq kY aUpir dyie pRBu hwQ ] (867-15, goNf, mÚ 5)
  God gives His hand to shelter the Saints.

sMq kY sMig bsY idnu rwiq ] (867-15, goNf, mÚ 5)
  He dwells with His Saints, day and night.

swis swis sMqh pRiqpwil ] (867-15, goNf, mÚ 5)
  With each and every breath, He cherishes His Saints.
 
sMq kw doKI rwj qy twil ]2] (867-16, goNf, mÚ 5)
  He takes the power away from the enemies of the Saints. ||2||

sMq kI inMdw krhu n koie ] (867-16, goNf, mÚ 5)
  Let no one slander the Saints.

jo inMdY iqs kw pqnu hoie ] (867-16, goNf, mÚ 5)
  Whoever slanders them, will be destroyed.

ijs kau rwKY isrjnhwru ] (867-17, goNf, mÚ 5)
  One who is protected by the Creator Lord,​ 
 
 [/FONT]


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## Sikh80 (Jun 25, 2008)

Page 13, Line 8
ਕਾਮਿ ਕਰੋਧਿ ਨਗਰੁ ਬਹੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧੂ ਖੰਡਲ ਖੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥
कामि करोधि नगरु बहु भरिआ मिलि साधू खंडल खंडा हे ॥
The body-village is filled to overflowing with anger and sexual desire; these were broken into bits when I met with the Holy *Saint*.

2.
Page 13, Line 9
ਕਰਿ ਸਾਧੂ ਅੰਜੁਲੀ ਪੁਨੁ ਵਡਾ ਹੇ ॥
करि साधू अंजुली पुनु वडा हे ॥
Greet the Holy *Saint* with your palms pressed together; this is an act of great merit.
*Guru Ram Das* 
3.
Page 13, Line 14
ਕਰਉ ਬੇਨੰਤੀ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਮੀਤਾ ਸੰਤ ਟਹਲ ਕੀ ਬੇਲਾ ॥
करउ बेनंती सुणहु मेरे मीता संत टहल की बेला ॥
Listen, my friends, I beg of you: now is the time to serve the *Saint*s!
*Guru Arjan Dev* 
4.
Page 13, Line 19
ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸੁ ਇਹੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਮਾਗੈ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਕਰਿ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੀ ਧੂਰੇ ॥੪॥੫॥
नानक दासु इहै सुखु मागै मो कउ करि संतन की धूरे ॥४॥५॥
Nanak, Your slave, begs for this happiness: let me be the dust of the feet of the *Saint*s. ||4||5||
*Guru Arjan Dev

5.
Full Shabad is reproduced for reference.
*ਰਾਗੁ  ਗਉੜੀ  ਪੂਰਬੀ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੫  ॥
रागु गउड़ी पूरबी महला ५ ॥
Raag Gauree Poorbee, Fifth Mehl:
ਕਰਉ  ਬੇਨੰਤੀ  ਸੁਣਹੁ  ਮੇਰੇ  ਮੀਤਾ  ਸੰਤ  ਟਹਲ  ਕੀ  ਬੇਲਾ  ॥
करउ बेनंती सुणहु मेरे मीता संत टहल की बेला ॥
Listen, my friends, I beg of you: now is the time to serve the Saints!
ਈਹਾ  ਖਾਟਿ  ਚਲਹੁ  ਹਰਿ  ਲਾਹਾ  ਆਗੈ  ਬਸਨੁ  ਸੁਹੇਲਾ  ॥੧॥
ईहा खाटि चलहु हरि लाहा आगै बसनु सुहेला ॥१॥
In this world, earn the profit of the Lord's Name, and hereafter, you shall dwell in peace. ||1||
ਅਉਧ  ਘਟੈ  ਦਿਨਸੁ  ਰੈਣਾਰੇ  ॥
अउध घटै दिनसु रैणारे ॥
This life is diminishing, day and night.
ਮਨ  ਗੁਰ  ਮਿਲਿ  ਕਾਜ  ਸਵਾਰੇ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥
मन गुर मिलि काज सवारे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Meeting with the Guru, your affairs shall be resolved. ||1||Pause||
ਇਹੁ  ਸੰਸਾਰੁ  ਬਿਕਾਰੁ  ਸੰਸੇ  ਮਹਿ  ਤਰਿਓ  ਬ੍ਰਹਮ  ਗਿਆਨੀ  ॥
इहु संसारु बिकारु संसे महि तरिओ ब्रहम गिआनी ॥
This world is engrossed in corruption and cynicism. Only those who know God are saved.
ਜਿਸਹਿ  ਜਗਾਇ  ਪੀਆਵੈ  ਇਹੁ  ਰਸੁ  ਅਕਥ  ਕਥਾ  ਤਿਨਿ  ਜਾਨੀ  ॥੨॥
जिसहि जगाइ पीआवै इहु रसु अकथ कथा तिनि जानी ॥२॥
Only those who are awakened by the Lord to drink in this Sublime Essence, come to know the Unspoken Speech of the Lord. ||2||
ਜਾ  ਕਉ  ਆਏ  ਸੋਈ  ਬਿਹਾਝਹੁ  ਹਰਿ  ਗੁਰ  ਤੇ  ਮਨਹਿ  ਬਸੇਰਾ  ॥
जा कउ आए सोई बिहाझहु हरि गुर ते मनहि बसेरा ॥
Purchase only that for which you have come into the world, and through the Guru, the Lord shall dwell within your mind.
ਨਿਜ  ਘਰਿ  ਮਹਲੁ  ਪਾਵਹੁ  ਸੁਖ  ਸਹਜੇ  ਬਹੁਰਿ  ਨ  ਹੋਇਗੋ  ਫੇਰਾ  ॥੩॥
निज घरि महलु पावहु सुख सहजे बहुरि न होइगो फेरा ॥३॥
Within the home of your own inner being, you shall obtain the Mansion of the Lord's Presence with intuitive ease. You shall not be consigned again to the wheel of reincarnation. ||3||
ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ  ਪੁਰਖ  ਬਿਧਾਤੇ  ਸਰਧਾ  ਮਨ  ਕੀ  ਪੂਰੇ  ॥
अंतरजामी पुरख बिधाते सरधा मन की पूरे ॥
O Inner-knower, Searcher of Hearts, O Primal Being, Architect of Destiny: please fulfill this yearning of my mind.
ਨਾਨਕ  ਦਾਸੁ  ਇਹੈ  ਸੁਖੁ  ਮਾਗੈ  ਮੋ  ਕਉ  ਕਰਿ  ਸੰਤਨ  ਕੀ  ਧੂਰੇ  ॥੪॥੫॥
नानक दासु इहै सुखु मागै मो कउ करि संतन की धूरे ॥४॥५॥
Nanak, Your slave, begs for this happiness: let me be the dust of the feet of the Saints. ||4||5||

_ There is a direct reference in the bani that one should be the slave to the Saintly persons. May be these saints are the Gurmukhs who are totally immersed in the naam. This is again a conjecture and is subject to correction as per bani.However, I find it difficult to interpret it alone.It is quite possible that on account of the the edicts that we have to accept SGGS ji as our Guru that we should not emphasise upon the Saints in Human format.

The idea that Gurmukhs are the saints is also strengthened by the following Tuk :

_ gurmuiK swD syeI pRB Bwey kir ikrpw Awip imlwvY ]1] (881-8, rwmklI, mÚ 4)
_The Gurmukhs are the Holy Saints, pleasing to God; in His mercy, He blends them with Himself. ||1||__

__ With this interpretation that satisfies the requirement of Bani I rest my further reading and investigation. Who is Gurmukh is clearly explained in bani at many places. I am quoting the following :

_ gurmuiK pUrw jy kry pweIAY swcu Aqolu ]1] rhwau ] (17-11, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
_One who attains perfection as Gurmukh, obtains the Immeasurable True Lord. ||1||Pause||_



_And the following:_




 ArD aurD kI sMiD ikau jwnY ] (228-8, gauVI, mÚ 1)
_How can anyone know of the Union between the being below and the Supreme Being above?_


 gurmuiK sMiD imlY mnu mwnY ]7] (228-8, gauVI, mÚ 1)
_The Gurmukhs obtain this Union; their minds are reconciliated[/FONT]_

Bani further suggests something in the following.

   hir kw nwmu AMimRqu kil mwih ] (888-15, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
_*   The Name of the Lord is Ambrosial Nectar in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga.*_
    eyhu inDwnw swDU pwih ] (888-15, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
_*   This treasure is obtained from the Holy.*_


Submitted for further comments by honorable members.


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## spnadmin (Jun 25, 2008)

Sikh80 ji

Tell me if I am wrong. But to me Guruji is saying that there is One Holy Sant speaking in the form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

This has always been a difficult concept for me. I believe there is ONE Holy Sant, but am willing to listen to other explanations.

The three lines leading me to that conclusion come from your previous posting. Two times, Guru Ran Das says _met/meet with the Holy Sant_ and this is combined with _greet the Guru. _SANT AND THE SATGURU are the same presence in my understanding. 


ਕਾਮਿ  ਕਰੋਧਿ  ਨਗਰੁ  ਬਹੁ  ਭਰਿਆ  ਮਿਲਿ  ਸਾਧੂ  ਖੰਡਲ  ਖੰਡਾ  ਹੇ  ॥ 
Kām karoḏẖ nagar baho bẖari*ā mil sāḏẖū kẖandal kẖanda hė. 
The body-village is filled to overflowing with anger and sexual desire; these were broken into bits when *I met with the Holy Saint.*

ਪੂਰਬਿ  ਲਿਖਤ  ਲਿਖੇ  ਗੁਰੁ  ਪਾਇਆ  ਮਨਿ  ਹਰਿ  ਲਿਵ  ਮੰਡਲ  ਮੰਡਾ  ਹੇ  ॥੧॥ 
Pūrab likẖaṯ likẖė gur pā*i*ā man har liv mandal mandā hė. ||1|| 
By pre-ordained destiny, I have met *with the Guru.* I have entered into the realm of the Lord's Love. ||1|| 

ਕਰਿ  ਸਾਧੂ  ਅੰਜੁਲੀ  ਪੁਨੁ  ਵਡਾ  ਹੇ  ॥ 
Kar sāḏẖū anjulī pun vadā hė. 
Greet *the Holy Saint* with your palms pressed together; this is an act of great merit. 

You go onto to say the following,_ There is a direct reference in the bani that one should be the slave to the Saintly persons._ The sants who are the sadhsangha(t)th, the holy persons, are one with The One Holy Sant, because of the purity of their consciousness. These sants and the "sants" in ardaas are not the One Holy Sant referred to in Gurbani _per se._ This is a different idea of "sants." So I am probably in agreement with you. 

Thank you for putting the discussion forward. In His nirgun form He is beyond all of those who are One with Him, although they have merged with Him. IMHO


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## pk70 (Jun 25, 2008)

*Late Sri Ishar Singh ji Rarewala used to wear sun glasses in side Diwan where there was no Sun, how it has sounded LOL?*


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## pk70 (Jun 25, 2008)

Sikh80 said:


> A question
> There is specific mention of Saadh, the Holy in Bani. I had quoted from the bani. In the context the meaning is very clear to me. It seems that Saadh/Sangat can feel the presence of the Lord more easily than an individual. Hence one is advised to be in the company of sangat. But what would be the position of a Saint.[When translated from Sadhu.] Nothing is superfluous and has to be assigned meaning. I fail to do so and would request if learned member can throw some light as to who is saadhu.
> 
> Earler,It has been opined by pk 70 ji that one who takes to Naam abhiyaas is a sadhu. However, to me the State of sadhu /sadhoo should be much above the practitioners of naam in the ordinary senses of the word. In any case advice is sought  from the members. The term has not been discussed at length anywhere by the commentators as well.
> ...


 ਦੂਖੁ ਗਇਆ ਸਭੁ ਰੋਗੁ ਗਇਆ ॥ 
दूखु गइआ सभु रोगु गइआ ॥ 
Pain is gone, and all illness is gone. 

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਆਗਿਆ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਮਾਨੀ ਮਹਾ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਾ ਸੰਗੁ ਭਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
प्रभ की आगिआ मन महि मानी महा पुरख का संगु भइआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ 
I have accepted the Will of God in my mind, associating with the Great Person, the Guru. ||1||Pause|| 


While doing some research on 'Saint' I have come across the above lines and shall be grateful if some light is thrown on the line that is colored in Blue. The literal translation or the literal meaning may not be acceptable as per Sikh philosophy. I submit this for the kind guidance of the learned members.
      ( Quote Sikh 80 ji)
* Sikh 80 ji,*
*Your comments” literal translation may not be acceptable as per Sikh Phylosophy” Why not? In Gurbani, there is  a definition of Sant/ Sadh, why it should be unacceptable to Sikh philosophy?*
*Above two Guru Vaakas, are together in conveying a meaning, pain and illness also needed to be explained. Pain we endure due to our actions ( current or past), illness is not  only related with any physical disease, being inflicted with Maya is also illness,  so When Great person, Guru is met, wall of falsehood loaded with illusions is shattered. What result it brings then? His Ordinance is understood ( Hukm Rajaaee chalna Nanak likhya naal), this very Ordinance becomes sweet and obeying it generates happiness; pain, sorrow and all Maya disease are gone because conflicts are gone, Duality ceases to exist. Take another example, He is pious Water, our souls are filthy water, when filth is cleaned, soul water mixed with pious Water. 
 NOW LOOK AT GURBANI DEFINITION OF SANT/SADH
 [/FONT]* ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੫ ॥ ਜਿਨਾ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਨ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾਂ ਮਨਿ ਮੰਤੁ ॥ ਧੰਨੁ ਸਿ ਸੇਈ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਪੂਰਨੁ ਸੋਈ ਸੰਤੁ ॥੧॥ (GGS 319)
Slok 5th Guru. Who with every breath and morsel of theirs, forget not God's Name and within whose mind is this spell, they alone are the blessed and they alone are the perfect saints, O Nanak. (Tr by Manmohan singh) 

*Sant**=  Because of being imbued  always with Lord’s love as interpreted by Guru ji,so  he/she conquers vices, stays above depravity, iniquity, wickedness and corruption, revenge, jealousy, beguiling habits, quagmire of ego- iceberg etc and always remain only imbued with love of  Parbrahm.( Bhai Veer Singh “SGGSKP-95)*

*Here is Sadh described by well known and virtuous Bhai Veer Singh and Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha*
*Sadh*= *Lover of Akaalpurakh (Bhia Veer Singh Sri Guru Granth Sahib Kosh )*
*Sadh= Virtuous, devoted to well being for others, Holy man, pious,( Bhai Kahan Singh –Mahan Kosh p-101*
*ਮਨੁ ਅਸਾਧੁ **ਸਾਧੈ ਜਨੁ ਕੋਇ* *॥**The mind is uncontrollable; rare are those who subdue it, keep in control.** (GGS 159) So Sadh is him/her who has kept mind in control literally from all kind of vices and negative primal forces.*
ਛਾਇਆ ਰੂਪੀ ਸਾਧੁ ਹੈ ਜਿਨਿ ਤਜਿਆ ਬਾਦੁ ਬਿਬਾਦੁ  (1376)( Kabir Ji)

*There can be no more better explanation than the definition of Sant/Sadh given in Gurbani, problem rises when context of Sadh or Sant is not understood in different contexts, 
**or sticking with one meaning in all different contexts. Just understanding vast application is necessary to get out of confusion about a single word.  Guru ji  also states the ones who realize HIM becomes like HIM. Again Guru ji states” one in million” koee Virla” will do that; so clearly as per definitions given in Gurbani, Sadh or Sant are very rare, these words were also used for Guru ji. So I do not see any definition given by any one is better than  the one given in Gurbani itself. By the way, these are not my views, I just tried say how these words are used in different contexts in Gurbani. If some one comes with different meaning other than what Gurbani says, It will be difficult for me to accept that. Thyanks for sharing your views and questions though.*


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## Sikh80 (Jun 25, 2008)

*Pk70 ji,

Thanks for taking interest and replying to the above. I have carefully gone through the reply and do appreciate your view point.

 If you kindly look into the following Gurmukhi line carefully you would observe that There is no term as 'Guru' in the Gurmukhi line. It is the figment of imagination of the Translator. In the above line, so far as the contemporary sikh philosophy is concerned, the meaning of Maha Purukh should not be any physical guru. We have only one Guru and the is Sabad Guru. If we translate this Maha Purukh into sabad Guru things would not be simple as one can question further and hence I stop here without indulging in any discussion and accept your reply as a perfect reply as there cannot be a better explanation to this.

May be we are not able to go into deep and consider the meaning that was intended to be assigned. I am ,however, happy with your answer as there cannot be better answer than yours.

Kindly look into the followings:

    hir AMimRq bUMd suhwvxI imil swDU pIvxhwru ] (134-12, mwJ, mÚ 5)
The drops of the Lord's Nectar are so beautiful! Meeting the Holy Saint, we drink these in.[/FONT]

1. Sadhu makes us drink the Nectar. We are told the naam is given by the Guru only .
[/FONT]

swDu imlY pUrb sMjog ] (153-2, gauVI, mÚ 1)
One meets the Holy Saint only through perfect destiny.[/FONT]


2. The same thing has been stated for Guru and the Lord. Hence the status of Sadhu  should be much above as is understood in ordinary parlance . May be He is the Brahmgyani whose company is recommended in the above line.

[/FONT]kir syvw sMqw AMimRqu muiK pwhw jIau ] (173-3, gauVI mwJ, mÚ 4)
Let's serve the Saints, and drink in the Ambrosial Nectar.
 imlu pUrib iliKAVy Duir krmw ]3] (173-4, gauVI mwJ, mÚ 4)
By one's karma and pre-ordained destiny, they are met. [/FONT]

3. These kinds of edicts are spread over the entire Granth sahib that with pre-ordained destiny one meets  Saints. Hence the status of Sadhu again is much more than as is commonly understood. We have Guru Granth Sahib and we do not have any measures with us to locate one who is sadhu as is recommended here  or we shall meet him as and when the Lord permits.

[/FONT]sMq jnw imil pwieAw myry goivdw myrw hir pRBu sjxu sYxI jIau ] (174-1, gauVI mwJ, mÚ 4)
Meeting the Saints, O my Lord of the Universe, I have found my Lord God, my Companion, my Best Friend.
mY mylhu sMq myrw hir pRBu sjxu mY min qin BuK lgweIAw jIau ] (174-3, gauVI mwJ, mÚ 4)
O Saints, unite me with my Lord God, my Best Friend; my mind and body are hungry for Him.[/FONT]

4. In the above lines it is stated clearly that the status of a saint is no less than Guru who makes us meet the Lord ,the best companion.


[/FONT]  pwrbRhm moih ikrpw kIjY ] (181-12, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
   O Supreme Lord God, please shower Your Mercy upon me.
    DUir sMqn kI nwnk dIjY ]4]17]86] (181-12, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
Bless Nanak with the dust of the feet of the Saints. ||4||17||86||
 
5.In the above it is stated clearly that Saints are very blessed soul and one should be very humble and accept these kinds of blessed persons. But we meet them with pre-ordained destiny. Further these kinds of persons or 'Virla' only. 

I think one has to carry on like this. We all interpret bani as per our level of understanding and do accept the meaning as is assigned by the seniors who have wider understanding of the bani and have an over all better appreciation of the bani as a whole. I thank you once again for the lucid reply.


 Regards
[/FONT]
Line under consideration

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਆਗਿਆ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਮਾਨੀ ਮਹਾ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਾ ਸੰਗੁ ਭਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
प्रभ की आगिआ मन महि मानी महा पुरख का संगु भइआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ 
I have accepted the Will of God in my mind, associating with the Great Person, the Guru. ||1||Pause||*


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## Sikh80 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Respected aad ji,

Your explanation and my putting forward  any thing more than this may only tantamount to displeasure of other members who have opinion that is not exactly the same as ours. So I want to not to enter further as this may not be liked and appreciated .I put rest to this discussion with an open mind that we are attuned to the Idea that bani is Nirankaar and sabad Guru is supreme, the status of holy person or saint has to be lower than this. I think the sabad are the compilations when it was not in the form of sabad guru. Everything also cannot and ,probably , was not included in it. 

Hence the difficulty.

I have an opinion that is well spelt out as above, may be some members do not agree. I put forward  some lines that would be replication of the concept that Guru ji is not talking of sabad guru as a sant though.

Let us look at the following.

jh jh sMq ArwDih qh qh pRgtwieAw ] (456-18, Awsw, mÚ 5)
Wherever the Saints worship the Lord in adoration, there He is revealed.


1.In the above line the contextual meaning leads one to think that Saint is not necessarily sabad Guru , the SGGS. Any person who has  qualified as a saint shall receive the blessings of the lord  in the form of  His darshan or meeting Him. Saint may be His devotee with higher spiritual achievements. The next few lines in continuation of the above are as follows:


pRiB Awip lIey smwie shij suBwie Bgq kwrj swirAw ] (456-19, Awsw, mÚ 5)
God blends Himself with His devotees in His natural way, and resolves their affairs.

Awnµd hir js mhw mMgl srbdUK ivswirAw ] (456-19, Awsw, mÚ 5)
In the ecstasy of the Lord's Praises, they obtain supreme joy, and forget all their sorrows.


[/FONT]One can easily say that saint has not been stated as sabad guru or vice versa in the above lines.

2. Let us again have the look at the following line.


iQru sMqn sohwgu mrY n jwvey ] (457-2, Awsw, mÚ 5)
The Husband Lord of the Saints is eternal; He does not die or go away.[/FONT]


In the above line also the contextual meaning shall also not be sabad-guru.It clearly refers to a person or a human being. Having said this it can be concluded that Guru sahib had something else in mind while authoring this line  or some other lines that convey the idea that sant is an individual only. 


We tend to believe that everything stated about saint should be sabad Guru because we are always bound by an idea that sabad Guru is supreme.Yes, it is so but then we shall not do full justification to this term that has been employed and used in bani to convey that we can even bow to the individuals who are stated to be saints and not giving them the status of guru though it cannot be denied that at many places the saints have been given  the status of guru .

hir AMimRq bUMd suhwvxI imil swDU pIvxhwru ] (134-12, mwJ, mÚ 5)
The drops of the Lord's Nectar are so beautiful! Meeting the Holy Saint, we drink these in.[/FONT]

I think there cannot be an area of agreement when we arrive at any conclusion as to who is a saint and what is the definition.There are many other quotes in bani that are suggestive of that Saints are persons of higher spiritual status and we should bow to them as well and that they can also make us meet the Lord.

 I have quoted in above lines that even the Nectar can be obtained with their blessings. The Nectar is only but naam. However, since God only gives us Naam , this idea may run  against the sikh philosophy.  But then this  is the position stated in bani.  Some may not agree but then we cannot over simplify the things to make us  fit many things in the wider perspective of bani. 

It is only an humble submission as well. Stating more than this may result in unpleasantness and hence I conclude that we all have opinions that need not converge but we all have the right to interpret the things as per our understanding. 

It is of little significance if we state that we do not agree with the observation of other member.We can always be silient about this.


Extending the the theme further for understanding and appreciating -Can you not be saint and what is wrong if I bow to you as well and seek your blessings for going ahead. I do not think that I shall be doing anything contrary to bani. Yes, I shall, in that case, not take you as my Guru but a person full of love and devotion of Lord.? 

3. There is a clear cut difference between a saint and sangat, the holy congrgation as well.

imlau sMqn kY sMig moih auDwir lyhu ] (457-16, Awsw, mÚ 5)
Let me join the Society of the Saints - save me, Lord!


I have not put forward these to make an impression that I am correct but to impress upon that there is A siant that has higher status than any individual who is a seeker like us. We shall not be doing anything contrary to bani if we hold him in high esteem and even seek his blessings as is stated in bani.



syvw sw iqsu BwvsI sMqw kI hoie Cwru ] (137-2, mwJ, mÚ 5)
He has no end or limitation. That service is pleasing to Him, which makes one humble, like the dust of the feet of the Saints[/FONT]

In the above line the term used in Gurmukhi is 'santa' that would mean plural and hence is a generic term different from sangat.


swDu imlY pUrb sMjog ] (153-2, gauVI, mÚ 1)
One meets the Holy Saint only through perfect destiny[/FONT]

In the above line as well the idea of sant is reflected as an individual person and not ,necessarily, the Guru that is for us sabad guru. Meeting saints is pre-destined. 

We have full explanation of a Siant in Sukhmani sahib as well. One can always refer to that if the doubt still persists.

kir syvw sMqw AMimRqu muiK pwhw jIau ] (173-3, gauVI mwJ, mÚ 4)
Let's serve the Saints, and drink in the Ambrosial Nectar.

The term employed in Gurmukhi is again Plural thus conveying an idea that saints are individuals only. 



sMq jnw imil pwieAw myry goivdw myrw hir pRBu sjxu sYxI jIau ] (174-1, gauVI mwJ, mÚ 4)
Meeting the Saints, O my Lord of the Universe, I have found my Lord God, my Companion, my Best Friend.




mY mylhu sMq myrw hir pRBu sjxu mY min qin BuK lgweIAw jIau ] (174-3, gauVI mwJ, mÚ 4)
O Saints, unite me with my Lord God, my Best Friend; my mind and body are hungry for Him.[/FONT]


I seek forgiveness if it is the cause of annoyance to some members.  

* *With kind regards.

Note: I seem to have read a post of aad ji stating that sant should be SGGS ji.This post is in response to that post. However, on second look I am not able to trace her post here in the thread. 

Note2.
*_*Respected aad ji,*
I am able to locate the post. It is on page 9. I was searching for it on page 10 .My mistake.
Regards
_* 
*


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## Sikh80 (Jun 26, 2008)

ਸੋਰਠਿ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੫  ॥ 
सोरठि महला ५ ॥ 
Sorat'h, Fifth Mehl: 

ਹਮ  ਸੰਤਨ  ਕੀ  ਰੇਨੁ  ਪਿਆਰੇ  ਹਮ  ਸੰਤਨ  ਕੀ  ਸਰਣਾ  ॥ 
हम संतन की रेनु पिआरे हम संतन की सरणा ॥ 
I am the dust of the feet of the Beloved Saints; I seek the Protection of their Sanctuary. 

ਸੰਤ  ਹਮਾਰੀ  ਓਟ  ਸਤਾਣੀ  ਸੰਤ  ਹਮਾਰਾ  ਗਹਣਾ  ॥੧॥ 
संत हमारी ओट सताणी संत हमारा गहणा ॥१॥ 
The Saints are my all-powerful Support; the Saints are my ornament and decoration. ||1|| 

ਹਮ  ਸੰਤਨ  ਸਿਉ  ਬਣਿ  ਆਈ  ॥ 
हम संतन सिउ बणि आई ॥ 
I am hand and glove with the Saints. 

ਪੂਰਬਿ  ਲਿਖਿਆ  ਪਾਈ  ॥ 
पूरबि लिखिआ पाई ॥ 
I have realized my pre-ordained destiny. 

ਇਹੁ  ਮਨੁ  ਤੇਰਾ  ਭਾਈ  ॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥ 
इहु मनु तेरा भाई ॥ रहाउ ॥ 
This mind is yours, O Siblings of Destiny. ||Pause|| 

ਸੰਤਨ  ਸਿਉ  ਮੇਰੀ  ਲੇਵਾ  ਦੇਵੀ  ਸੰਤਨ  ਸਿਉ  ਬਿਉਹਾਰਾ  ॥ 
संतन सिउ मेरी लेवा देवी संतन सिउ बिउहारा ॥ 
My dealings are with the Saints, and my business is with the Saints. 

ਸੰਤਨ  ਸਿਉ  ਹਮ  ਲਾਹਾ  ਖਾਟਿਆ  ਹਰਿ  ਭਗਤਿ  ਭਰੇ  ਭੰਡਾਰਾ  ॥੨॥ 
संतन सिउ हम लाहा खाटिआ हरि भगति भरे भंडारा ॥२॥ 
I have earned the profit with the Saints, and the treasure filled to over-flowing with devotion to the Lord. ||2|| 

ਸੰਤਨ  ਮੋ  ਕਉ  ਪੂੰਜੀ  ਸਉਪੀ  ਤਉ  ਉਤਰਿਆ  ਮਨ  ਕਾ  ਧੋਖਾ  ॥ 
संतन मो कउ पूंजी सउपी तउ उतरिआ मन का धोखा ॥ 
_The Saints entrusted to me the capital, and my mind's delusion was dispelled. _

ਧਰਮ  ਰਾਇ  ਅਬ  ਕਹਾ  ਕਰੈਗੋ  ਜਉ  ਫਾਟਿਓ  ਸਗਲੋ  ਲੇਖਾ  ॥੩॥ 
धरम राइ अब कहा करैगो जउ फाटिओ सगलो लेखा ॥३॥ 
What can the Righteous Judge of Dharma do now? All my accounts have been torn up. ||3|| 

ਮਹਾ  ਅਨੰਦ  ਭਏ  ਸੁਖੁ  ਪਾਇਆ  ਸੰਤਨ  ਕੈ  ਪਰਸਾਦੇ  ॥ 
महा अनंद भए सुखु पाइआ संतन कै परसादे ॥ 
I have found the greatest bliss, and I am at peace, by the Grace of the Saints. 

ਕਹੁ  ਨਾਨਕ  ਹਰਿ  ਸਿਉ  ਮਨੁ  ਮਾਨਿਆ  ਰੰਗਿ  ਰਤੇ  ਬਿਸਮਾਦੇ  ॥੪॥੮॥੧੯॥ 
कहु नानक हरि सिउ मनु मानिआ रंगि रते बिसमादे ॥४॥८॥१९॥ 
Says Nanak, my mind is reconciled with the Lord; it is imbued with the wondrous Love of the Lord. ||4||8||19||


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## spnadmin (Jun 26, 2008)

Sikh80 said:


> *Respected aad ji,
> 
> Your explanation and my putting forward  any thing more than this may only tantamount to displeasure of other members who have opinion that is not exactly the same as ours. So I want to not to enter further as this may not be liked and appreciated .I put rest to this discussion with an open mind that we are attuned to the Idea that bani is Nirankaar and sabad Guru is supreme, the status of holy person or saint has to be lower than this. I think the sabad are the compilations when it was not in the form of sabad guru. Everything also cannot and ,probably , was not included in it.
> 
> ...



Siikho80 ji

I have to admit that I don't understand. Pk70 didn't seem displeased. He seemed to be saying something very similar but in more detail and using somewhat different language. There are "sants" and there is The Holy Sant. The meaning of sant will not always be the same. Maybe I didn't understand him. But pk ji and I are usually in fairly close agreement.


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## Josh martin (Jul 12, 2009)

so whats the census so far, on the role on sants in khalsa panth?


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## Tejwant Singh (Jul 12, 2009)

Sant is not a title in SGGS but an adjective which requires continues action of breeding goodness within and emitting it like a flower in all directions to all sans bias. The moment he/she stop breeding that, then they cease to be Sants.

In other words, Sants, Brahmgyanis and other similar words used in SGGS are for the people who are like natural fountains of water. The moment the water stops coming from the ground, they end up being nothing but holes.

So, all of us who are able to breed goodness within and are able to act saintly in that sense. 

Tejwant Singh


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## prakash.s.bagga (Jul 8, 2011)

It is surprising to note the contents  right at the start where it is being clarified the in Gurbaani Bhagat Prahlad ji and Bhagat Kabir ji both have been refered as Sants in Gurbaani.
I have personally verified this and I do not find any such quote in Gurbaani to conclude that they have been refered as Sants.

In Gurbaani the word "Sant" has been refered to GuRU-GuR Joti and therefore this is not a reference for any person.We should try to understand this.

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jul 8, 2011)

bhaag hoaa gur_sant milayah..IS GURU ARJUN jI SAHIB REFERRING TO hIS FATHER Guru Ramdass Ji...and is the CLEAREST POINTER as to what/who is a "SANT". Its definitely not a HUMAN BEING..as Guru Arjun Ji also declared..MANUKH KEE TEK BIRTHEE JAAN...

But then its difficult to force a horse (or even a donkey) to drink...one cna just take it to the WATER SOURCE....some people are so ATTACHED to the HUMAN DEH and NOT the SHABAD as the GURUS TAUGHT USand the GURU STILL TEACHES US IN SGGS) that they become BLIND and follow their human sants as Brahmgyanis...Mann andah naam sujaan..these Masters of BHARAM (Not Braham) keep on attracting followers, claim to chhakaa "amrit" to hundreds of THOUSANDS each year..and yet look at a Live Broadcast of any Dharmik Diwan..mostly PATKA wearing Monas...take a look at the matha tekkers at Harmandar sahib Daily..hardly a sabat Soorat among the thousands pushing and shoving to matha tek...WHERE are all thos Amrtidharees that Babas like nanad Singh isher singh rarrewaalhs dhadriwllahs etc etc produced..each Punjab Village should be FULL of Sabat Soorats..yet 99% of men in a Punjab village will be MONAS !! YES the Sants build huge DERAS, marble and Gold Gurdwaras, Colleges named after their DEAD ANCESTORS - NO DERA has a College/School named after the GURU SAHIBAANS...all PERSONAL PROPERTY controlled by the sant-Bharamgyani ( see how they fight and shoot live bullets in the hazooree of SGGS like in nanksar for the Goluck and gadee ). Listen to the Harsh Language the dhadri snat used when he got angry at babbu mann..is that type of Sant fit the description given in GURBANI/SGGS as GUR-SANT ?? of course NOT..hes a typical angry young man mouthing nonsense and yet he is Sant !!..he is NOT even an "ANT" after we drop the "S"....more likely just "NT" non-entity.

Its a FACT beyond dispute that the One and ONLY SANT today is GUR-SANT GURU..SATGUR..Dhan Dhan Sahib Sri Guru granth sahib Ji ONLY.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Jul 8, 2011)

GIYANI JARNAIL SINGH Ji,
Many thanks for your elaborative clarification about who is Sant in Gurbaani.

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Jul 8, 2011)

The Akal Takhat Official Register records 8 KROR Amrtidharees have chhak amrit. Now our sikh population is hardly reaching 2 kror..(ALL Sikhs..monas and whatever..)...so where are the REST 6 KRORS ?? are they living as Keshadharee HINDUS in UP/MP?Bihar ??
And this Figure of 8 KROR is just for the Akal takhat SGPC....not counting the KRORS of amrit chhakkaees of dhadrianwallah, rarrehwallah, nanaksarees nand singh ishar singh etc etc Numerous saadhs of Malwa region etc etc etc.. the total must be at least 35 KROR !!..and there arent even a few LAKH amritdharee sikhs of the GURU ( even counting the chamta dholki kutteeing saadh chelas who look like amrtidharees but of their own SANT and not the GURU)

READ THIS really Good article by jatinder Singh on Khalsa news org.
*ਬੁੱਕਲ ਦੇ ਸੱਪ  Snakes we rear !!
*“ਕੁਤਾ  ਰਾਜਿ ਬਹਾਲੀਐ ਫਿਰਿ ਚਕੀ ਚਟੈ॥ ਸਪੈ ਦੁਧੁ ਪੀਆਲੀਐ ਵਿਹੁ ਮੁਖਹੁ  ਸਟੈ॥” (ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ) A dog given the Throne will still lick the atta off the millstone...a snake fed milk will still bite the hand that feeds it...Bhai gurdass Ji


How Fake sants/saadhs/bharamgyanis/mahapurashs, sri 108 and sri1008's/derawallahs/nanaksareehs/radhasoamis/namdharees/udasis/nirmalas/rarrehwallahs/dhadriwallahs/jathedars/Gyanis/Kirtaniyahs/Ragis/Parcharaks/Kathwachaks....etc etc are SNAKES we rear and how they BITE us at every opportunity...


 ਸਿਆਣਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਕਥਨ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸੱਪ ਕਿਸੇ ਦਾ ਮਿੱਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਚਾਹੇ ਕੋਈ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਲੱਖ ਦੁੱਧ ਪਿਆਉਦਾ  ਫਿਰੇ। ਜਦ ਸੱਪ ਆਪਣੀ ਆਈ ਤੇ ਆਇਆ ਉਹ ਡੰਗ ਮਾਰਨ ਤੋਂ ਉਕੇਗਾ ਨਹੀਂ, ਫਿਰ ਅਗੇ ਆਉਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਚਾਹੇ ਉਸ  ਦਾ ਹਮਦਰਦ, ਪਾਲਣਹਾਰ (ਦੁੱਧ ਪਿਆਉਣ ਵਾਲਾ) ਹੀ ਕਿਉਂ ਨਾ ਹੋਵੇ, ਉਹ ਆਪਣਾ ਡੰਗ ਚਲਾ ਹੀ ਦੇਵੇਗਾ।  ਇਹ ਤਾਂ ਗਲ ਸੀ ਸੱਪ ਦੀ ਜੋ ਜਾਨਵਰ ਹੈ, ਪਰ ਇਨਸਾਨਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਵੀ ਇੱਕ ਅਜਿਹੀ ਹੀ ਕਿਸਮ ਪਾਈ ਜਾਂਦੀ  ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਬੁੱਕਲ ਦੇ ਸੱਪ ਕਿਹਾ ਜਾਦਾਂ ਹੈ। ਆਉ ਹੁਣ ਇਸ ਦੂਸਰੀ ਕਿਸਮ ਦੇ ਸੱਪ ਬਾਰੇ ਗੱਲ  ਕਰੀਏ ਜੋ ਸਿੱਖ ਕੌਮ ‘ਚ ਕੁਝ ਜ਼ਿਆਦਾ ਹੀ ਕਾਰਜ਼ਸੀਲ ਹਨ ਜਾਂ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤੇ ਗਏ ਹਨ। ਬੁੱਕਲ ਦੇ ਸੱਪ ਜੋ  ਇਸ ਜਾਨਵਰ ਸੱਪ ਤੋਂ ਵੀ ਵੱਧ ਖਤਰਨਾਕ ਤੇ ਨੁਕਸਾਨਦੇਹ ਹਨ। ਬੁੱਕਲ ਦਾ ਸੱਪ ਉਸ ਵਿਅਕਤੀ ਨੂੰ ਕਿਹਾ  ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਕਿਸੇ ਦਾ ਆਪਣਾ ਬਣਕੇ ਭਾਵ ਰੰਗ, ਰੂਪ, ਵੇਸ਼-ਭੂਸ਼ਾ, ਸ਼ਕਲ-ਸੂਰਤ ਉਸ ਵਰਗੀ ਬਣਾਕੇ (ਜਿਵੇਂ  ਅੱਜ ਕੱਲ ਸਿੱਖ ਕੌਮ ‘ਚ ਦੇਹਧਾਰੀ/ਡੇਰੇਦਾਰ ਬਾਬੇ ਹਨ) ਗੱਦਾਰੀ ਕਰੇ। ਫਿਰ ਚਾਹੇ ਉਹ ਬਾਹਰੋਂ ਕੌਮ  ‘ਚ ਆਇਆ ਹੋਵੇ, ਜਾਂ ਉਸੇ ਹੀ ਕੌਮ ਦਾ ਬਾਸ਼ਿੰਦਾ ਕਿਉਂ ਨਾ ਹੋਵੇ, ਉਸ ਦਾ ਵਿਸਵਾਸ਼ ਜਿੱਤ ਕੇ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ  ਹੀ ਡੰਗ ਮਾਰ ਦੇਵੇ ਭਾਵ ਗੱਦਾਰੀ ਕਰੇ, ਤੇ ਪਤਾ ਵੀ ਨਾ ਲਗਣ ਦੇਵੇ ਕਿ ਡੰਗ ਉਸ ਦਾ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ  ਹੈ।







ਜਦੋਂ  ਦਾ ਸਿੱਖ ਧਰਮ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ, ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਦੂਹਰੀ ਮਾਰ ਝੱਲਣੀ ਪੈ ਰਹੀ ਹੈ। ਇੱਕ ਤਾਂ ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਬਾਹਰੋਂ  ਬਿਪਰ ਵਲੋਂ ਮਾਰ ਪੈ ਰਹੀ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਇਸ ਦਾ ਕੱਟੜ ਦੁਸ਼ਮਣ ਹੈ। ਜੋ ਨਹੀਂ ਚਾਹੁੰਦਾ ਕਿ ਸਿੱਖ ਧਰਮ ਵਧੇ  ਫੁੱਲੇ ਤੇ ਦੂਸਰੀ ਮਾਰ ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਕੁੱਝ ਆਪਣੇ ਹੀ ਪਾਲੇ ਹੋਏ ਬੁੱਕਲ ਦੇ ਸੱਪਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਝੱਲਣੀ ਪੈ ਰਹੀ  ਹੈ, ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਬਿਪਰ ਵਲੋਂ ਪੂਰੀ ਹੱਲਾਸ਼ੇਰੀ (ਆਰਥਿਕ, ਮਾਨਸਿਕ, ਪ੍ਰਸ਼ਾਸਨਿਕ) ਮਿਲ ਰਹੀ ਹੈ।  ਅਗਰ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੇ ਸਮੇਂ ਵੱਲ ਝਾਤ ਮਾਰੀਏ, ਤਾਂ ਜਿੱਥੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਘਰ ਨੂੰ ਨੁਕਸਾਨ ਪਹੁੰਚਾਣ ਵਿੱਚ  ਬਿਪਰ ਕੁੱਝ ਖੁੱਲੇ ਰੂਪ ਤੇ ਬਹੁਤਾ ਪਰਦੇ ਪਿਛੇ ਰਹਿ, ਹੋਰਨਾਂ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਗੁਰੂ ਘਰ ਨੂੰ ਖਤਮ ਕਰਨ ਲਈ  ਉਪਰਾਲੇ ਕਰ ਰਿਹਾ ਸੀ, ਉੱਥੇ ਉਸ ਵੱਲੋਂ ਪਾਲੇ ਜਾਂ ਬਿਪਰ ਦੀਆਂ ਚਾਣਕਿਆ ਨੀਤੀਆਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਆਏ ਇਹ ਸੱਪ,  ਸਿੱਖੀ ਭੇਸ ‘ਚ ਸਿੱਖੀ ਦੇ ਜੜ੍ਹੀ ਤੇਲ ਦੇਂਦੇ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ, ਫਿਰ ਚਾਹੇ ਉਹ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਚੰਦ ਦੇ ਰੂਪ ‘ਚ ਉਦਾਸੀਏ  ਹੋਣ, ਪ੍ਰਿਥੀਏ ਦੇ ਰੂਪ ‘ਚ ਧੀਰਮੱਲੀਆਂ, ਰਾਮਰਾਈਆਂ ਜਾਂ ਫਿਰ ਮਸੰਦਾਂ ਦੇ ਰੂਪ ‘ਚ ਹੋਣ।

ਇਹ ਬੁੱਕਲ ਦੇ ਸੱਪ ਜੋ ਸ਼ਾਇਦ ਸਿੱਖ ਕੌਮ ਵਿੱਚ ਦੂਜੀਆਂ ਕੌਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਮੁਕਾਬਲੇ ਕੁਝ ਜ਼ਿਆਦਾ ਹੀ  ਕਾਰਜ਼ਸ਼ੀਲ ਹਨ ਜਾਂ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤੇ ਗਏ ਹਨ। ਕੁੱਝ ਬੁੱਕਲ ਦੇ ਸੱਪ ਸਿੱਖ ਕੌਮ ਵਿਚ ਵਾੜ ਦਿੱਤੇ ਗਏ ਹਨ ਤੇ  ਬਹੁਤੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਕੌਮ ਦੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਹੀ ਪਾਲ਼ੇ ਹੋਏ ਹਨ। ਜੋ ਆਪਣਾ ਡੰਗ ਮਾਰਨ ਦਾ ਕੰਮ ਪੂਰੀ ਵਫਾਦਾਰੀ (ਤਨ,  ਮਨ, ਧਨ) ਨਾਲ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਵਾਦੀ ਥਾਪੜੇ ਨਾਲ ਕਰ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ ਤੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਕੌਮ ਵੀ (ਉਗਲਾਂ ਤੇ ਗਿਣੇ ਜਾਣ  ਜੋਗੇ ਗੁਰਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਛੱਡ ਕੇ) ਪੂਰੀ ਇਮਾਨਦਾਰੀ ਨਾਲ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਕੌਮ ਘਾਤਕ ਸੱਪਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਦੁੱਧ ਪਿਆਉਣ  ਵਿਚ ਰੁੱਝੀ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ, ਬਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਇਹ ਸੋਚਿਆਂ ਕੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਸੱਪਾਂ ਦਾ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ, ਡੰਗ ਕੌਮ ਨੂੰ  ਕਿਸ ਹਨੇਰੀ ਖੱਡ ਵਿਚ ਸੁੱਟ ਦੇਵੇਗਾ। ਵੈਸੇ ਤਾਂ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਸੱਪਾਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਕਈ ਕਿਸਮਾਂ ਹਨ, ਪਰ ਸਭ ਤੋਂ  ਵੱਧ ਕਾਰਜ਼ਸ਼ੀਲ ਤੇ ਜ਼ਹਿਰੀਲੀ ਕਿਸਮ ਜੋ ਕੌਮ ਨੂੰ ਨੀਮ ਬੇਹੋਸ਼ੀ ਦੀ ਹਾਲਤ ਵਿੱਚ ਪਹੁੰਚਾ ਚੁੱਕੀ ਹੈ,  ਉਹ ਹੈ ਚਿੱਟੇ ਚੋਲ਼ਿਆਂ ਵਾਲਾ ਵਿਹਲੜ ਸਾਧ/ਸੰਤ ਲਾਣਾ ਜੋ ਵੱਗਾਂ ਦੇ ਵੱਗ ਕੌਮ ਵਿੱਚ ਫਿਰ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ।  ਅਗੋਂ ਇਹ ਵੱਖਰੀ-ਵੱਖਰੀ ਕਿਸਮ (ਬਰੲੲਦ) ਦੇ ਹਨ ਜਿਵੇ: ਸੰਤ, ਬਾਬਾ, ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮਾਨ 108, 1008,  ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀ, ਪੂਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀ (ਪਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਸ਼ਾਇਦ ਪੰਜਵੇਂ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੂ ਅਰਜਨ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ  ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵਿਚ ਕਿਸੇ ਅਧੂਰੇ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀ ਦੀ ਹੀ ਗਲ ਕਰ ਗਏ ਹਨ, ਜੋ ਇਹ ਸਾਧ ਲਾਣਾ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਨੂੰ ਤੇ  ਆਪਣੇ ਮਰ ਚੁੱਕਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਪੂਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀ ਦੱਸਦਾ ਫਿਰਦਾ ਹੈ) ਦੇ ਅਲੱਗ-2 ਰੂਪਾਂ ‘ਚ ਮਿਲਦੇ ਹਨ।  ਇਹ ਸਾਰੀਆਂ ਕਿਸਮਾਂ 1900 ਈ. ਤੋਂ ਬਾਅਦ ‘ਚ ਹੀ ਕੌਮ ਦੀ ਹਰੀ ਭਰੀ ਫੁਲਵਾੜੀ ‘ਚ ਕਾਂਗਰਸੀ ਘਾਹ  ਵਾਂਗ ਉਗੀਆਂ ਹਨ। ਇਸ ਤੋਂ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਤੁਸੀ ਕਿਤੇ ਵੀ ਸੰਤ, ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀ, ਪੂਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀ ਨਹੀਂ  ਲੱਭ ਸਕਦੇ। ਇਹ ਸਾਰੇ ਬਰਸਾਤੀ ਡੱਡੂਆਂ ਵਾਂਗ 1900 ਤੋਂ ਬਾਅਦ ਹੀ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੋਏ ਹਨ। ਹੁਣ ਤਾਂ ਬਰਸਾਤੀ  ਡੱਡੂ ਵੀ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਵੱਲ ਵੇਖ ਕੇ ਸ਼ਰਮ ਦੇ ਮਾਰੇ ਬਾਹਰ ਨਹੀ ਆਉਦੇਂ। ਇਹ ਵਿਹਲੜ ਲਾਣਾਂ ਅਗਰ ਇਹਨਾਂ  ਡਿਗਰੀਆਂ ਤੱਕ ਹੀ ਸੀਮਤ ਰਹਿ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਤਾਂ ਠੀਕ ਸੀ ਪਰ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਅਖੌਤੀ ਸੰਤਾਂ/ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀਆਂ ਤੇ  ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਚੇਲਿਆਂ ਨੇ ਕੌਮ ਦੀ ਨੀਮ ਬੇਹੋਸ਼ੀ ਦਾ ਫਾਇਦਾ ਲੈਦਿਆਂ ਹੋਇਆਂ, ਬਟਾਲੇ ਲਾਗੇ ਦੇ ਇੱਕ  ਰੋਡੇ ਭੋਡੇ ਸਾਧ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦਾ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਬਣਾ ਧਰਿਆ ਤੇ ਇਸ ਦੇ ਹੱਕ ‘ਚ ਇਹ ਆਮ ਹੀ  ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਲੀ ਹੇਠ ਲਿਖੀ ਤੁਕ ਸੰਘ ਪਾੜ-ਪਾੜ ਕੇ ਬੋਲਦੇ ਸੁਣੇ ਜਾ ਸਕਦੇ ਹਨ:

ਆਪਿ ਨਰਾਇਣੁ ਕਲਾ ਧਾਰਿ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਪਰਵਰਿਯਉ ॥ (ਪੰਨਾ-1395)

ਹੁਣ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਭਲੇਮਾਣਸਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਪੁੱਛਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਹੋਵੇ, ਕਿ ਭਾਈ ਦਸਾਂ ਜਾਮਿਆਂ ਵਿਚ ਤਾਂ “ਨਰਾਇਣ”  “ਸਾਬਤ ਸੂਰਤਿ ਦਸਤਾਰ ਸਿਰਾ” (ਪੰਨਾ-1084) ਦਾ ਹੋਕਾ ਦਿੰਦਾ ਰਿਹਾ ਫਿਰ ਹੁਣ ‘ਨਾਰਾਇਣ’ ਨੂੰ ਕੀ  ਹੋ ਗਿਆ ਕੇ ਉਹ ਖੁਦ ਹੀ ਸਿਰ ਮੂੰਹ ਮੁਨਾ ਬੈਠਾ??? ਕੀ ਇਹ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀ ਤੋਂ “ਪੂਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀ”  ਦੇ ਸਫਰ ਦਾ ਅਸਰ ਤਾਂ ਨਹੀਂ??? ਕਿ ਜਾਂ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਪੂਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀ ਵੀ ਪੱਛਮੀ ਸੱਭਿਅਤਾ ਦੇ  ਵਹਿਣ ‘ਚ ਵਹਿ ਗਿਆ ਤੇ ਇਹ ਮੌਡਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀ ਬਣ ਗਿਆ ਹੋਵੇ??? ਓਏ ਭਲਿਓ!!! ਜੋ ਖੁਦ ਸਾਬਤ  ਸੂਰਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਿਹਾ, ਉਹ ਤੁਹਾਨੂੰ ਸਾਬਤ ਸੂਰਤ ਕਿਵੇਂ ਬਣਾਵੇਗਾ, ਤੇ ਉਸ ਦੇ ਮਗਰ ਲੱਗ ਕੇ ਤੁਸੀਂ  ਕਿਵੇ ਸਾਬਤ ਸੂਰਤ ਰਹਿ ਜਾਵੋਗੇ। ਅਮ੍ਰਿੰਤਧਾਰੀ ਹੋਣਾ ਤਾਂ ਬਹੁਤ ਦੂਰ ਦੀ ਗਲ ਹੈ। ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ  ਫੁਰਮਾਨ ਹੈ:

ਜੈਸਾ ਸੇਵੈ ਤੈਸੋ ਹੋਇ॥ (ਪੰਨਾ-223) ਹੁਣ ਫੈਸਲਾ ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਹੱਥ  ਹੈ …………………

ਪਰ ਸਿਆਣੇ ਕਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਕਿ ਸਾਧ ਨਹੀਂ ਉੱਡਦੇ, ਚੇਲੇ ਉਡਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ ਤੇ ਇਹਨਾ ਚੇਲਿਆਂ ਵਿਚ ਸਾਡੇ  ਅਖੌਤੀ ਰਾਗੀ, ਢਾਡੀ, ਕਵੀਸ਼ਰ, ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕ, ਕਥਾਵਾਚਕ ਵੀ ਆਉਂਦੇ ਹਨ ਜਿਹਨਾਂ ਨੇ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਨੂੰ ਬੱਸ  “ਰੋਟੀਆ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਪੂਰਹਿ ਤਾਲ ॥ (ਪੰਨਾ-465)” ਤੱਕ ਹੀ ਸੀਮਿਤ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ। ਇਸੇ ਸਾਧ ਦੇ ਡੇਰੇ (ਅਖੌਤੀ  ਅੰਗੀਠਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ) ਵਿਖੇ ਇਕ ਪਟਿਆਲੇ ਦਾ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਨੂੰ ਸਿੱਖ ਕੌਮ ਦਾ ਵੱਡਾ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕ (ਵੈਸੇ ਤਾਂ  ਤੁਸੀਂ ਸਾਰੇ ਹੀ ਦਰਬਾਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੇ ਹਜ਼ੂਰੀ ਰਾਗੀਆਂ, ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕਾਂ ਦੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਡੇਰਿਆਂ/ਠਾਠਾਂ ਤੇ  ਦਰਸ਼ਣ ਕਰ ਸਕਦੇ ਹੋ) ਕਹਾਉਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਕਿਲ੍ਹ-ਕਿਲ੍ਹ ਕੇ ਇਸ ਸਾਧ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀ  ਸਾਬਤ ਕਰਨ ਲਈ ਜ਼ੋਰ ਲਾਉਂਦਾ ਦੇਖਿਆ (ਜੋ ਕਿ ਤਕਰੀਬਨ 3-4 ਸਾਲ ਤੋਂ ਉਥੇ ਜਾ ਰਿਹਾ) ਤਾਂ ਦਿਲ ਖੂਨ  ਦੇ ਅੱਥਰੂ ਰੋ ਪਿਆ ਕਿ ਜਿਸ ਕੌਮ ਦੇ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕ/ਕਥਾਵਾਚਕ ਹੀ ਚੰਦ ਛਿਲੜਾਂ ਖਾਤਰ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਰਥਾਂ  ਨੂੰ ਤੋੜ-ਮਰੋੜ ਸਕਦੇ ਹਨ, ਉਸ ਕੌਮ ਦਾ ਤਾਂ ਫਿਰ ਰੱਬ ਹੀ ਰਾਖਾ!!! ਸਭ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਜ਼ਿਆਦਾ ਦੁੱਧ ਵੀ  ਕੌਮ ਵੱਲੌਂ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਬੁੱਕਲ ਦੇ ਸੱਪਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਪਿਲਾਇਆ ਜਾ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ, ਤੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਜ਼ਹਿਰ ਤਾਂ  ਜ਼ਾਹਿਰਾ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਚਾਹੇ ਘੱਟ ਦਿਖਾਈ ਦੇਵੇ (ਸ਼ਕਲ ਸੂਰਤ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਵਾਲੀ ਹੋਣ ਕਾਰਨ) ਪਰ ਅਸਰ ਕੌਮ ਦੀਆਂ  ਆਉਂਦੀਆ ਨਸਲਾਂ ਤੇ ਸਾਫ ਦਿਖਾਈ ਦੇਵੇਗਾ। ਇਹ ਸਭ (ਅਖੌਤੀ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕ/ਕਥਾਵਾਚਕ) ਮਿਲ ਕੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ  ਅਖੌਤੀ ਸੰਤਾਂ/ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀਆਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਸਟੇਜ਼ਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਕ੍ਹਿੱਲ-ਕ੍ਹਿੱਲ ਕੇ ਜ਼ਬਰਦਸਤੀ ਹੀ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ  ਵਿਚਲੀਆਂ ਤੁਕਾਂ ਦੇ ਅਰਥਾਂ ਦੇ ਅਨਰਥ ਆਈ ਹੋਈ ਮੇਲੇ ਦੀ ਸੌਕੀਨ, ਭਾਂਤ-ਭਾਂਤ ਦੇ ਲੰਗਰਾਂ ਦੀ  ਸੌਕੀਨ ਭੀੜ (ਮਾਫ ਕਰਨਾ ਸੰਗਤ ਇਸ ਕਾਰਨ ਨਹੀਂ ਲਿਖ ਰਿਹਾ, ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਜੇ ਸੱਚਮੁੱਚ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ  ਸੰਗਤ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਤਾਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਬੇਅਦਬੀ ਜੋ ਇਹ ਅਰਥਾਂ ਦੇ ਅਰਨਥ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਅਖੌਤੀ ਸੰਤਾਂ/ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀਆਂ  ਨੂੰ ਖੁਸ਼ ਕਰਨ ਲਈ ਕਰ ਰਹੇ ਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਨਾ ਸੁਣਦੀ ਤੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਉਸੇ ਵੇਲੇ ਹੀ ਸਟੇਜ ਤੋਂ ਥੱਲੇ  ਧੂਹ ਲੈਂਦੀ) ਨੂੰ ਸੁਣਾ ਰਹੇ ਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਕਿ ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਜ਼ਿਆਦਾ ਕਿੱਲ੍ਹਾਂਗੇ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਹੀ ਵੱਡਾ  ਟੁੱਕੜ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਅਖੌਤੀ ਸੰਤਾਂ/ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਮਿਲੇਗਾ। ਲਾਹਨਤ ਹੈ ਇਹੋ ਜਿਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕਾਂ,  ਰਾਗੀਆਂ, ਕਥਾਵਾਚਕਾਂ ਤੇ ਜੋ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਸੱਪਾਂ ਦੇ ਕੁਹਾੜੇ ਦਾ ਦਸਤਾ ਬਣਦੇ ਹਨ, ਅਪਣੀ ਕੌਮ ਦੀਆਂ ਜੜਾਂ  ‘ਚ ਫਿਰਨ ਨੂੰ। ਨਾਮ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦਾ ਤੇ ਟੁੱਕੜ ਬੁੱਕਲ ਦੇ ਸੱਪਾਂ ਦੇ।

ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦਾ ਫੁਰਮਾਨ ਹੈ, “ਕੋਟਨ ਮੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਕੋਊ ਨਾਰਾਇਨੁ ਜਿਹ ਚੀਤਿ”  (ਪੰਨਾ-1427) ਪਰ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਸਾਧਾਂ, ਸੰਤਾਂ, ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਤਾਂ ਹੁਣ ਵੱਗ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ “ਸਮਾਜ” ਬਣ  ਗਏ ਹਨ, ਤੇ ਇਹ ਸਮਾਜ ਜਦੋਂ ਕਦੇ ਵੀ ਕੌਮ ਤੇ ਭੀੜ ਪੈਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਇਵੇਂ ਗਾਇਬ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਗਧੇ  ਦੇ ਸਿਰ ਤੋਂ ਸਿੰਗ। ਇਹ ਵੱਡੀਆਂ ਗੋਗੜਾਂ ਵਾਲੇ ਭੀੜ ਵੇਲੇ ਲਈ ਨਹੀਂ, ਇਹ ਸਾਧ ਲਾਣਾ ਤਾਂ ਬਣਿਆਂ  ਹੀ ਗਰੀਬ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਦੀ ਹੱਕ ਦੀ ਕਮਾਈ ਤੇ ਐਸ਼ ਕਰਨ ਨੂੰ ਹੈ। 






ਇਹ ਬੁੱਕਲ ਦੇ ਸੱਪ (ਸਾਧ ਲਾਣਾ) ਦੂਜਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਤਾਂ ਕਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਨਾਗਣ ਹੈ। ਦਸਾਂ ਨਹੁੰਆਂ  ਦੀ ਕਿਰਤ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਅਜ ਦੋ ਡੰਗ ਦੀ ਰੋਟੀ ਤੋਂ ਆਤੁਰ ਹੋਇਆ ਬੈਠਾ ਖੁਦਕੁਸ਼ੀਆਂ ਕਰ ਰਿਹਾ ਉਸ ਵਾਸਤੇ  ਤਾਂ ਮਾਇਆ ਨਾਗਣ ਹੈ ਪਰ ਇਸ ਲਾਣੇ ਲਈ ਜੋ 20-20 ਲੱਖ ਦੀ ਗੱਡੀ ਤੋਂ ਘੱਟ ਗੱਡੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਲੈਦੇ,  10-10 ਹਜ਼ਾਰ ਦਾ ਚੋਲਾ ਪਾਉਦੇ ਹਨ, ਆਲੀਸ਼ਾਨ ਏ.ਸੀ. ਡੇਰਿਆਂ ‘ਚ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਸਿਰ ਤੇ ਕਲਗੀਆਂ ਲਾ  ਕੇ ਜਨਮ ਦਿਨ ਮਨਾਉਂਦੇ ਹਨ, ਮਹਿੰਗੇ-2 ਗਿਫਟ ਲੈਦੇ ਹਨ। ਇਹਨਾਂ ਵਾਰੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਮਾਮੇ/ਮਾਸੀ  ਦੀ ਧੀ ਬਣ ਜਾਂਦੀਂ ਹੈ ?? ਜੋ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਡੰਗਦੀ। ਪਰ ਇਸ ਲਈ ਵੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਡੰਗਦੀ ਹੋਣੀ ਕਿਉਕਿ  ਇਹਨਾਂ ਨੇ ਦਸਾਂ ਨਹੁੰਆ ਦੀ ਕਿਰਤ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਿਆਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਸਾਰੀਆਂ ਫਿਕਰਾਂ ਜੂ ਖੁਦ ਲੈ ਲਈਆਂ ਹਨ।  ਮੰਡੀਆਂ ‘ਚ ਰੁਲਣੋ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਕਿਸਾਨ ਨੂੰ ਬਚਾ ਲਿਆ। ਅੱਧੀ ਜਿਨਸ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਖੇਤਾਂ ‘ਚੋ ਹੀ ਲੈ ਜਾਂਦੇ  ਨੇ ਬੋਰੀਆਂ ਭਰ ਕੇ, ਤੇ ਬਾਕੀ ਬਚਦੀ ਘਰਾਂ  ਤੋਂ ਆ ਕੇ ਲੈ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਨੇ ਪੱਕੇ ਪਰਸ਼ਾਦਿਆਂ ਦੇ ਰੂਪ ‘ਚ।  ਨਾ ਜਿਨਸ ਰਹੂ, ਨਾ ਮੰਡੀਆਂ ‘ਚ ਹੀ ਰੁਲਣਾ ਪਊ। ਦੂਜਾ ਫਿਕਰ ਧੀਆਂ ਪੁੱਤਾਂ ਦੇ ਵਿਆਹਾਂ/ਸ਼ਾਦੀਆਂ ਦਾ  ਵੀ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਖਤਮ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ। ਪੁੱਤਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਨਸ਼ੇ ਹੀ ਇਨ੍ਹੇ ਲਗਾ ਦੇਣੇ ਹਨ ਜਾਂ ਵਿਹਲੜ/ਨਿਕੰਮਾ ਹੀ  ਏਨਾ ਬਣਾ ਦੇਣਾ ਕਿ ਕੋਈ ਇਜ਼ਤਦਾਰ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੀ ਧੀ ਦਾ ਰਿਸ਼ਤਾ ਦੇਣ ਤੋਂ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਹਜ਼ਾਰ ਵਾਰ ਨਹੀ  ਲੱਖ ਵਾਰ ਸੋਚੇਗਾ। ਰਹੀ ਗੱਲ ਧੀਆਂ ਦੀ, ਜੇ ਇਹ ਕੁੱਖ ‘ਚ ਮਰਨੋਂ ਬਚ ਗਈਆਂ ਤਾਂ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਨੇ ਡੇਰਿਆਂ,  ਠਾਠਾਂ ‘ਚ ਰੱਖ ਲੈਣੀਆਂ ਹਨ ਆਪਣੀ ਗੰਦੀ ਹਵਸ ਦਾ ਸ਼ਿਕਾਰ ਬਣਾਉਣ ਨੂੰ, ਸਾਧਣੀ, ਦਾਸੀਆਂ,  ਸੇਵਾਦਾਰਨੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਰੂਪ ‘ਚ। ਗਰੀਬ ਕਿਸਾਨ (ਸਿੱਖ) ਤਾਂ ਕਮਲਾ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਖੁਦਕੁਸ਼ੀਆਂ ਕਰ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ। ਬਈ  !! ਤੇਰੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਫਿਕਰ ਤਾਂ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਅਖੌਤੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀਆਂ, ਸੰਤਾਂ, ਮਹਾਂਪੁਰਖਾਂ ਨੇ ਲੈ ਲਏ ਹਨ  ਤੂੰ ਕਾਹਦੇ ਲਈ ਖੁਦਕੁਸ਼ੀਆਂ ਕਰਦਾ ਫਿਰਦਾ???? ਤੂੰ ਤਾਂ ਭਲਿਆ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀਆਂ, ਸੰਤਾਂ,  ਮਹਾਂਪੁਰਖਾਂ ਦੇ ਚਰਨ ਧੋ-ਧੋ ਪੀ ਸ਼ਾਇਦ ਤੇਰਾ ਵੀ ਜਨਮ ਸਫਲਾ ਹੋ ਜਾਵੇ। ਉਪਰੋਂ ਦਾਵੇ ਕਰਦੇ ਨਹੀਂ  ਥੱਕਦੇ, ਕਿ ਜੀ ਅਸੀਂ ਜਾਂ ਸਾਡੇ ਮਹਾਂਪੁਰਖਾਂ ਨੇ ਤਾਂ ਇਕ ਦਿਨ ‘ਚ 1 ਲੱਖ ਨੂੰ “ਬਾਬੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇ  ਜਹਾਜ਼” (ਅਮ੍ਰਿੰਤ ਛਕਾਇਆ) ਚੜਾਇਆ ਹੈ। ਪਰ ਕਦੇ ਕਿਸੇ ਨੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਨੁੂੰ ਪੁੱਛਿਆ ਹੀ ਨਹੀ ਕਿ  ਮਹਾਂਪੁਰਖ ਜੀ ਉਸ ਜਹਾਜ਼ ‘ਚੋ ਕੋਈ ਪਾਰ ਵੀ ਲੰਘਿਆਂ ਕਿ ਸਾਰੇ ਹੀ ਅਗਲੇ ਮੋੜ ਤੇ ਉਤਰ ਗਏ???? 

ਦਾਸ ਨੂੰ ਅਜ ਤੋਂ ਕੋਈ 5-7 ਸਾਲ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਇਕ ਬਜ਼ੁਰਗ ਢਾਡੀ (ਗਿਆਨੀ ਪ੍ਰਸ਼ੋਤਮ ਸਿੰਘ ਪਾਰਸ) ਨੇ  ਦੱਸਿਆ ਸੀ ਕਿ ਇੱਕਲੇ ਅਕਾਲ ਤਖਤ ਸਾਹਿਬ (ਇਹਨਾਂ ਬਾਬਿਆਂ, ਸੰਤਾਂ, ਜਥੇਬੰਦੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਦਾਵਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ  ਛੱਡ ਕੇ) ਦੇ ਰਜ਼ਿਸਟਰ ਦੇਖ ਲਉ, ਅਸੀਂ 8 ਕਰੋੜ ਨੂੰ ਅਮ੍ਰਿੰਤ ਛਕਾ ਚੁੱਕੇ ਹਾਂ। ਪਰ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਦੀ  ਕੁੱਲ ਅਬਾਦੀ (ਘੋਨ-ਮੋਨ, ਡੇਰੇਵਾਦੀ ਤੇ ਹੋਰ ਪਾ ਕੇ) ਵੀ ਪੌਣੇ 2 ਕਰੋੜ ਹੀ ਬਣਦੀ ਹੈ। ਫਿਰ ਬਾਕੀ  ਦੇ ਸਵਾ 6 ਕਰੋੜ ਕਿਥੇ ਗਏ। ਜ਼ਮੀਨ ਖਾ ਗਈ ਜਾਂ ਅਸਮਾਨ ਨਿਗਲ ਗਿਆ। ਨਹੀਂ, ਇਸ ਦਾ ਮਤਲਬ ਸਿਰਫ ਏਨਾ  ਹੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਅਸੀਂ ਇਕ-ਇਕ ਜਾਣੇ ਨੇ 8-8 ਵਾਰ ਅਮ੍ਰਿੰਤ ਛਕਿਆ ਹੈ। ਪਰ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਇਸ ਨਾਲ ਕੀ ਇਹਨਾਂ  ਤਾਂ ਅਖਬਾਰਾਂ ‘ਚ ਫੋਟੋ ਹੀ ਲਗਵਾਉਣੀ ਹੈ। ਕਦੀ ਦੂਜਿਆਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਧੀਆਂ/ਭੈਣਾਂ ਦੀ ਇੱਜ਼ਤ ਬਚਾਉਣ ਲਈ  ਜਾਨ ਦੀ ਪਰਵਾਹ ਨਾ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਅਜ ਦਰ-ਦਰ ਤੇ ਆਪਣੀਆਂ ਮਾਸੂਮ ਬੱਚਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਭੂਸਰੇ ਸਾਨ੍ਹਾਂ  (ਸਾਧਾਂ) ਦੇ ਡੇਰਿਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਬਚਾਉਣ ਲਈ ਲੇਲ੍ਹੜੀਆਂ ਕੱਢਦਾ ਫਿਰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਪੰਜਾਬੀਓ ਸੋਚੋ!!!!ਅੱਜ ਕਿਸ  ਨੇ ਤੁਹਾਨੂੰ ਏਨਾ ਬੇਗੈਰਤ/ਬੇਅਣਖਾ ਬਣਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ????? ਕਿਉ ਤੁਹਾਡੀਆਂ ਰਗਾਂ ਵਿਚਲਾ ਖੂਨ ਉਬਾਲਾ  ਨਹੀਂ ਖਾਂਦਾ???? ਕਿਉਂ ਤੁਹਾਡੀਆਂ ਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰਾਂ ਮਿਆਨੋ ਬਾਹਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਆ ਰਹੀਆਂ???? ਕਿ ਜਾਂ ਤੁਸੀ ਇਸ  ਸਭ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੀ ਹੋਣੀ ਮੰਨ ਲਿਆ ਹੈ????


 <table style="border-collapse: collapse" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%">   <tbody><tr>     <td width="36%">        </td>     <td width="64%">     ਹੌਲੀ-2 ਇਹ ਬੁੱਕਲ ਦੇ ਸੱਪ ਸਿਖ ਕੌਮ ਦੀਆਂ ਰਗਾਂ ‘ਚ ਇਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਜ਼ਹਿਰ ਭਰ  ਦੇਣਗੇ ਕਿ ਕੌਮ ਇਸ ਜ਼ਹਿਰ ਦੀ ਆਦੀ ਹੋ ਜਾਵੇਗੀ ਫਿਰ ਇਹ ਸੰਤਾਂ, ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਪਦਵੀਂ ਤੋਂ  ਉਪਰ ਉਠ ਕੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਣ ਬੈਠਣਗੇ। ਇਸੇ ਲਈ ਹੀ ਇਹ ਬਾਰ-2 ਬੁੱਕਲ ਦੇ ਸੱਪ ਭੇਸ ਬਦਲ ਬਦਲ ਕੇ ਕਦੀ  ਬਿਹਾਰੀ ਸੱਪ, ਕਦੇ ਬਲਾਤਕਾਰੀ ਸੱਪ, ਕਦੇ ਬੇਆਸਾ ਵਾਲਾ ਸੱਪ, ਕਦੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸੱਪ, ਕਦੇ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀ  ਸੱਪ, ਕਦੇ ਅਖੌਤੀ ਜਥੇਦਾਰ ਸੱਪ ਦੇ ਰੂਪ ਵਿਚ ਡੰਗ ਮਾਰ ਕੇ ਦੇਖਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਕੌਮ ਵਿੱਚ ਅਜੇ ਕਿੰਨੀ  ਕੁ ਹਿਲਜੁਲ (ਅਣਖ) ਹੈ ਤੇ ਕੌਮ ਕਦੋਂ ਨੀਮਬੇਹੋਸ਼ੀ (ਛੋਮੳ) ਵਿੱਚ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਣ  ਬੈਠਣ। ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਸ਼ੁਰੂਆਤ ਨਾਨਕਸਰ ਵਾਲੇ ਮਹਾਂਪੁਰਖਾਂ, ਬਾਬਾ ਨੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਦੀ ਫੋਟੋ ਪਾਲਕੀ ਵਿਚ ਰੱਖ  ਕੇ ਕੱਢੇ ਨਗਰ ਕੀਰਤਨ ਰਾਹੀ ਤੇ ਮਸਤੂਆਣੇ ਕੋਲ ਮਾਲਵੇ ਵਿੱਚ ਅਖੌਤੀ ਸਾਧ ਬਲਵੰਤ ਸਿੰਹੁ ਸਹੋੜਾ ਨੇ  ਹਰਿਮੰਦਿਰ ਤੇ ਅਕਾਲ ਤਖਤ ਬਣਾਉਣਾ ਸ਼ੁਰੂ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਪਿਛੇ ਜਿਹੇ ਕੀਤੀ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਸਭ ਨੇ ਅਖਬਾਰਾਂ (ਰੋਜ਼ਾਨਾ  ਸਪੋਕਸਮੈਂਨ)‘ਚ ਵੇਖ ਹੀ ਚੁੱਕੇ ਹੋ ਤੇ ਇਸੇ ਸਾਧ ਦੇ ਚਰਨਾਂ ‘ਚ ਡਿੱਗਾ ਖਾਲਿਸਤਾਨ ਦਾ ਅਖੌਤੀ  ਅਲੰਬਰਦਾਰ ਵੀ ਦੇਖ ਸਕਦੇ ਹੋ ਜਿਹੜਾ ਹਰ ਦੂਜੇ ਚੌਥੇ ਦਿਨ ਖਾਲਿਸਤਾਨ ਦੇ ਨਾਹਰੇ ਕਿੱਲ਼-ਕਿੱਲ਼ ਕੇ ਲਾ  ਰਿਹਾ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਪੁਛੇ ਕਿ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਇਸ ਸਾਧ ਦੇ ਪੈਰਾਂ ‘ਚ ਖਾਲਿਸਤਾਨ ਦਿੱਸਦਾ  ਹੈ??? ਖਾਲਿਸਤਾਨ ਦਾ ਇਹੀ ਅਖੌਤੀ ਅਲੰਬਰਦਾਰ ਭੀੜ ਪੈਣ ਤੇ ਆਪ ਤਾਂ ਗਰਮ-ਗਰਮ ਨਾਹਰੇ ਮਾਰ ਕੇ ਜੇਲ਼  ਚਲਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਦੂਸਰਿਆਂ ਦੇ ਹੀਰਿਆਂ ਵਰਗੇ ਪੁੱਤਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਬਲਦੀ ਦੇ ਬੁੱਥੇ ਦੇ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।
</td>   </tr> </tbody></table> ਇੱਕ ਹੋਰ ਨਸਲ ਹੈ ਬੁੱਕਲ ਦੇ ਸੱਪਾਂ ਦੀ ਜੋ ਕੌਮ ਦੀ ਸਭ ਤੋਂ ਉੱਚੀ ਪਦਵੀ ਤੇ ਕੁੰਡਲ ਮਾਰ ਕੇ ਬੈਠੇ  ਹਨ। ਇਹ ਹਨ ਅਖੌਤੀ ਜਥੇਦਾਰ “ਅਕਾਲ ਤਖਤ ਸਾਹਿਬ”। ਇਹ ਸੱਪ ਵੀ ਬਿਪਰਵਾਦ ਵੱਲੌਂ ਕੌਮ ਵਿੱਚ ਵਾੜ  ਦਿੱਤੇ ਗਏ ਹਨ। ਜੋ ਕੌਮ ਦੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਣਨ ਲਈ ਕਾਹਲੇ ਹਨ। ਇਹ ਸੱਪ ਗਾਹੇ ਬਗਾਹੇ ਕੌਮ ਦੇ ਵਿਦਵਾਨਾਂ/ਬੁਧੀਜੀਵੀ  ਵਰਗ ਨੂੰ “ਸਿੱਖ ਪੰਥ ਦੇ ਸਭ ਤੋਂ ਵੱਧ ਸਤਿਕਾਰਤ ਮੀਰੀ ਦੇ ਤਖਤ ਦਾ ਨਜ਼ਾਇਜ਼ ਫਾਇਦਾ ਉਠਾਉਦੇ ਹੋਏ”  ਪੰਥ ‘ਚੋ ਛੇਕਣ ਦਾ ਸ਼ੌਕ ਪੂਰਾ ਆਪਣੇ ਅਖੌਤੀ ਹੁਕਮਨਾਮਿਆਂ ਰਾਹੀ ਕਰਦੇ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਵੈਸੇ ਵੇਖਿਆ  ਜਾਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਸੱਪ ਗੁਰਮਿਤ ਦੀ ਫਿਲਾਸਫੀ ਤੋਂ ਅਨਜਾਣ ਆਪਣੀ ਅਕਲ ਦਾ ਜ਼ਨਾਜਾ ਹੀ ਕੱਢ ਰਹੇ ਹੁੰਦੇ  ਨੇ ਕਿਉਕਿ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਛੇਕਣ ਦਾ ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਕਿੱਥੋਂ, ਕਦੋਂ, ਕਿਸ ਵੱਲੌਂ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੋਇਆ ਨਾ ਤਾਂ ਇਹਨਾਂ  ਨੂੰ ਨਾ ਹੀ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਮਾਲਕਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਪਤਾ। ਮਾਲਕਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਤਾਂ ਏਨਾ ਪਤਾ ਕਿ ਕਿਵੇਂ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ  ਵਰਤ ਕੇ ਟਿਸ਼ੂ ਪੇਪਰ ਵਾਂਗ ਸੁਟਣਾ ਹੈ। ਇਹ ਕੌਮ ਦੀ ਬਦਕਿਸਮਤੀ ਹੀ ਕਹੀ ਜਾ ਸਕਦੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਕੌਮ ਦੇ  ਇਹ ਅਖੌਤੀ ਜਥੇਦਾਰ ਕੋਈ ਵੇਦਾਂਤ ਦਾ ਗਿਆਤਾ ਵੇਦਾਂਤੀ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਕੋਈ ਆਰ ਐਸ ਐਸ ਦਾ ਹੱਥਠੋਕਾ ਪੂਰਨ  ਸਿੰਹੁ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਨਾਲ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਦੂਰ-ਦੂਰ ਦਾ ਕੋਈ ਵਾਸਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ। ਆਪਣੇ ਮਾਲਕਾਂ ਦੇ ਇਸ਼ਾਰੇ ਦੇ ਇਹ  ਵੀ ਕਦੇ ਆਰ ਐੱਸ ਐੱਸ ਦੀ ਨਜ਼ਾਇਜ ਔਲਾਦ ਪੂਰਨ ਸਿੰਹੁ, ਕਦੇ ਇਕਬਾਲ ਸਿੰਹੁ ਦੇ ਰੂਪ ਵਿੱਚ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ  ਨੂੰ ਲਵ-ਕੁਸ਼ ਦੀ ਔਲਾਦ ਦੱਸਦੇ ਹਨ। ਵੇਦਾਂਤੀ, ਅਗਰ ਇਸ ਮਹਾਂਪੁਰਖ ਦੇ ਕਾਰਨਾਮੇ ਲਿਖਣੇ ਹੋਣ ਤਾਂ  ਇੱਕ ਵੱਖਰੀ ਕਿਤਾਬ ਲਿਖਣੀ ਪਵੇਗੀ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਕੀਰਤੀਮਾਨ (ਗਦਾਰੀ ਦੇ) ਇਸ ਮਹਾਂਪੁਰਖ ਦੇ ਹਿੱਸੇ ਆਏ ਹਨ  ਹੋਰ ਕਿਸੇ ਦੇ ਹਿੱਸੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਏ। ਹੁਣ ਬੇਇਜ਼ਤੀ ਕਰਵਾ ਕੇ ਕੁਰਸੀ ਖੁਹਾ ਕਿ ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਵੀ ਸਿੱਖੀ ਦਰਦ  ਕਦੇ-ਕਦੇ ਉਠਦਾ ਹੈ , ਬਸ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਤਾਰੀਫ ‘ਚ ਇਹੀ ਕਹਿ ਸਕਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਬੰਦਾ ਅਜ ਤੱਕ ਦਾ ਸਭ  ਤੋਂ ਬੇਈਮਾਨ, ਰਿਸ਼ਵਤਖੋਰ (ਧਨਵੰਤ ਸਿੰਹੁ ਕੇਸ) ਤੇ ਸਿੱਖੀ ਨੂੰ ਕਲੰਕਤ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਜਥੇਦਾਰ ਰਿਹਾ  ਹੈ। ਇਸ ਦੀ ਇਕ ਹੋਰ ਸਿਫਤ ਵੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਇਸ ਨੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਮਾਲਕਾਂ (ਬਾਦਲ ਤੇ ਆਰ ਐੱਸ ਐੱਸ) ਪ੍ਰਤੀ  ਵਫਾਦਰੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਆਮ ਕਹਾਵਤਾਂ ‘ਚ ਆਉਦੇ ਵਿਚਾਰੇ ਡੱਬੂ ਨੂੰ ਵੀ ਪਿਛੇ ਛੱਡ ਦਿੱਤਾ। 






ਹੁਣ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਛੱਡ ਵੇਦਾਂਤੀ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਵਫਾਦਾਰੀ ਦੀਆਂ ਮਿਸਾਲਾਂ ਦਿੱਤੀਆਂ ਜਾਇਆ  ਕਰਨਗੀਆਂ। ਹੁਣ ਇਸ ਡੀਪਾਰਟਮੈਂਟ ਵਿੱਚ ਗੁਰਬਚਨ ਸਿੰਹੁ ਜੀ ਆਪਣੇ ਮਾਲਕਾਂ (ਬਾਦਲ ਤੇ ਆਰ ਐੱਸ ਐੱਸ)  ਪ੍ਰਤੀ ਵਫਾਦਾਰੀ ਦੀਆਂ ਸੇਵਾਵਾਂ ਪੂਰੀ ਇਮਾਨਦਾਰੀ ਨਾਲ ਨਿਭਾ ਰਹੇ ਨੇ। ਹੋ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ ਇਹ ਵੇਦਾਂਤੀ  ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਪਿਛੇ ਛੱਡ ਜਾਣ ਤੇ ਇਹ ਇਸ ਮਹਾਨ ਕਾਰਜ ਨੂੰ ਸਿਰੇ ਚੜ੍ਹਾਉਨ ਲਈ ਸਿਰ ਧੜ ਦੀ ਬਾਜੀ (ਜੇ  ਸਿਰ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ) ਲਾਈ ਬੈਠਾ ਹੈ। ਹਾਂ ਜੀ ਇੱਕ ਹੋਰ ਜੀਵ ਵੀ ਨੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਨਸਲ ਦੇ ਹੀ ਜੋ ਥੋੜਾ ਗਰਮ  ਸੁਭਾ ਦੇ ਮੰਨੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਨੇ ਤੇ ਕਦੀ-2 ਆਪਣੇ ਮਾਲਕਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਵੀ ਫੁੰਕਾਰੇ ਮਾਰਨ ਦੀ ਜੁਅਰਤ ਜਿਹੀ ਕਰ  ਲੈਂਦੇ ਹਨ। ਉਹ ਗੱਲ ਵੱਖਰੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਜਦੋਂ ਇਸ ਦੇ ਮਾਲਕ ਇਸ ਦੀ ਪੂਛ ਨੂੰ ਥੋੜਾ ਵੱਟ ਦੇਂਦੇ ਹਨ ਤਾਂ  ਇਹ ਵੀ ਸੁਸਰੀ ਵਾਂਗ ਸੌ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਕਦੀ-ਕਦੀ ਇਹ ਬਲਾਤਕਾਰੀ ਸੱਪ ਦਾ ਸਿਰ ਲੈ ਕੇ ਆਉਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਨੂੰ  ਵੀ ਸੋਨੇ ‘ਚ ਤੋਲਣ ਦੀ ਡੀਂਗ ਜਿਹੀ ਵੀ ਮਾਰ ਲ਼ੈਦਾ ਹੈ। ਪਰ ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਇਹ ਪੁੱਛਣਾ ਬਣਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਭਲਿਆ  ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਕੌਮ ਦੋਖੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਸਿਰ ਲਿਆਂਦੇ ਨੇ ਕੌਮ ਦੀ ਖਾਤਰ ਕਦੀ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਫੋਕੇ  ਵੱਟਿਆਂ ਨਾਲ ਵੀ ਤੋਲਣ ਦਾ ਯਤਨ ਕੀਤਾ ਕਿ ਮੱਖਣਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਪਾਲੇ ਸ਼ੇਰਾਂ ਵਰਗੇ ਮਾਂਵਾਂ ਦੇ ਪੁੱਤਾਂ ਦਾ  ਸੱਪ ਦਾ ਸਿਰ ਲਿਆਉਣ ਤੋ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਕਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਭਾਰ ਸੀ ਤੇ ਜੇਲ੍ਹ ਵਿੱਚ ਰੂੰ ਵਾਂਗ ਪਿੰਝੇ ਸਰੀਰ ਤੇ  ਸਾਰੀ ਜਵਾਨੀ ਗਾਲਣ ਮਗਰੋਂ ਹੁਣ ਕਿੰਨਾ ਰਹਿ ਗਿਆ। ਭਲਿਆ, ਹੁਣ ਵਾਲਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਸੋਨੇ ਨਾਲ ਤੋਲਣ ਤੋਂ  ਪਹਿਲਾਂ, ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਵਾਲਿਆਂ ਦੇ ਭਾਰ ਤੋਲ ਫਿਰ ਕੋਈ ਟੀਂ-ਪੈਂ ਕਰੀਂ। ਪਰ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਤਾਂ ਦੂਸਰਿਆਂ ਦੇ  ਪੁੱਤ ਮਰਵਾਉਣ ਦਾ ਬੀੜਾ ਚੁੱਕਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ। ਕੀ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਕੋਈ ਆਪਣਾ ਪੁੱਤਰ ਏਨੀ ਹਿੰਮਤ ਕਰੇਗਾ,  ਨਾਲੇ ਘਰ ਦਾ ਸੋਨਾ ਘਰੇ ਹੀ ਰਹਿ ਜਾਵੇਗਾ। ਇਹਨਾਂ ਸਾਰਿਆਂ ਸੱਪਾਂ ਲਈ ਵਰਮੀ ਦਾ ਕੰਮ “ਸ੍ਰੋਮਣੀ  ਕਮੇਟੀ” ਕਰ ਰਹੀ ਹੈ। ਸਭ ਨਾਲੋ ਵੱਧ ਬੁੱਕਲ ਦੇ ਸੱਪ ਏਸੇ ਵਰਮੀ ‘ਚ ਹੀ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਇਹਨਾਂ ਬੁੱਕਲ  ਦੇ ਸੱਪਾਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਅਗਰ ਸਾਰੀਆਂ ਕਿਸਮਾਂ ਤੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਕਰਤੂਤਾਂ ਲਿਖਣੀਆਂ ਹੋਣ ਤਾਂ ਸ਼ਾਇਦ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ  ਹੀ ਲਿਖਣੇ ਪੈਣ।

ਹੁਣ ਪੁੱਛਣਾ ਬਣਦਾ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਜਥੇਬੰਦੀਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਜੋ ਆਏ ਦਿਨ ਵਿਦਵਾਨਾਂ ਮਗਰ ਤਾਂ ਡਾਂਗਾਂ ਕੱਢੀ  ਫਿਰਦੀਆਂ ਨੇ ਕਿ ਭਾਈ ਤੁਹਾਡੀ ਅਕਲ ਨਾਲ ਹੀ 7/51 ਕਿਉਂ ਹੈ??? ਤੁਸੀਂ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਬੁੱਕਲ ਦੇ ਸੱਪਾਂ  ਦੀ ਸਿਰੀ ਕਦੋਂ ਨੱਪਣੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਜਾਂ ਫਿਰ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਸੱਪਾਂ ਕੋਲੋ ਲੀਡਰੀ ਚਮਕਾਉਣ ਲਈ ਤੁਹਾਨੂੰ ਵੀ ਚੋਗਾ  ਮਿਲ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਭਲਿਓ ਕੁਝ ਠੰਢੇ ਦਿਮਾਗ ਨਾਲ ਸੋਚੋ, ਜਿੰਨੇ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਵਿੱਚ ਡੇਰੇ ਨੇ ਉਸ ਤੋਂ 10  ਗੁਣਾਂ ਵੱਧ ਅਸੀਂ ਜਥੇਬੰਦੀਆਂ ਬਣਾ ਲਈਆਂ ਹਨ ਤੇ ਕਈਆਂ ਜਥੇਬੰਦੀਆਂ ‘ਚ ਤਾਂ ਬੰਦੇ ਵੀ ਗਿਣਤੀ ਦੇ  10 ਕੁ ਹੀ ਹਨ। ਜਾਨੀ 10 ਜਥੇਬੰਦੀਆਂ ਨੂੰ 1 ਡੇਰਾ ਆਉਂਦਾ ਹੋਓ। ਫਿਰ ਵੀ ਲੱਲੂ ਪੰਜੂ ਡੇਰੇਦਾਰ  ਸਾਡੇ ਤੇ ਭਾਰੂ ਪੈ ਰਹੇ ਨੇ। ਸੋਚਣਾ ਬਣਦਾ ਕਮੀ ਕਿੱਥੇ ਹੈ???? ਕਿੱਤੇ ਅਸੀਂ ਜਥੇਬੰਦੀਆਂ ਨੂੰ  “ਰੋਟੀਆਂ ਕਾਰਣ ਪੂਰੇ ਤਾਲ” ਦਾ ਸਾਧਨ ਤਾਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਬਣਾ ਲਿਆਂ ਕਿ ਅਖਬਾਰਾਂ ‘ਚ ਸ਼ੇਰ ਬਣ ਕੇ ਅਪਣੇ ਹੀ  ਬਾਹਰ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਵੀਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਖੂਨ ਪਸੀਨੇ ਦੀ ਕਮਾਈ ਤੇ ਲੀਡਰੀ ਚਮਕਾ ਲਈ???? ਤੇ ਜਦੋ ਦਾਅ ਲੱਗਾ ਕਿਸੇ  ਸਿਆਸਤਦਾਨ (ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਪਾਣੀ ਪੀ-ਪੀ ਕੇ ਕੋਸਦੇ ਸੀ) ਦੇ ਕੁੱਛੜ ਚੜ ਗਏ। ਕੀ ਕਾਰਨ ਨੇ ਕਿ  ਏਨੀਆਂ ਜਥੇਬੰਦੀਆਂ ਹੋਣ ਦੇ ਬਾਵਜੂਦ ਕੌਮ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਬੂਬਨੇ ਸਾਧਾਂ ਦੇ ਡੇਰਿਆਂ ਤੇ ਜਾਣੋਂ ਘੱਟ ਨਹੀਂ  ਹੁੰਦੀ???? ਕੀ ਕਦੇ ਕਿਸੇ ਇਕ ਵੀ ਜਥੇਬੰਦੀ ਨੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਜ਼ਮੀਨੀ ਸਤਰ (Ground  level) ਦੀ ਕੌੜੀਆਂ ਹਕੀਕਤਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਸਮਝਣ ਦੀ/ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਹੱਲ ਲੱਭਣ ਦੀ ਕੋਸ਼ਿਸ ਕੀਤੀ  ਹੈ???? ਕੀ ਕਾਰਨ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਏਨਾ ਮਹਾਨ ਫਲਸਫਾ ਹੋਣ ਦੇ ਬਾਵਜ਼ੂਦ ਵੀ ਅਸੀਂ ਰਸਾਤਲ ਵਲ ਕਿਉਂ ਜਾ ਰਹੇ  ਹਾਂ???? ਕੀ ਕਾਰਨ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵਰਗੇ ਪਵਿਤਰ ਸਮੁੰਦਰ ਦੇ ਹੁੰਦਿਆਂ  ਅਜ ਕੌਮ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਛੱਪੜਾਂ, ਟੋਬਿਆਂ ‘ਚੋ ਆਪਣੀ ਆਤਮਿਕ ਪਿਆਸ ਬੁਝਾਉਣ ਲਈ ਮਜ਼ਬੂਰ ਹੋਈ ਪਈ ਹੈ????

ਇਹਨਾਂ ਉਪਰ ਦਿੱਤੇ ਤੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਵਰਗੇ ਹੋਰਨਾਂ ਪ੍ਰਸ਼ਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਉਤਰ ਲੱਭਿਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾਂ ਤੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ  ਕੌਮ-ਘਾਤੀ ਬੁੱਕਲ ਦੇ ਸੱਪਾਂ ਦੀ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨਦੇਹੀ ਕੀਤੇ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾਂ ਕੌਮ ਦੀ ਬੇੜੀ ਅਜੋਕੇ ਮਝਧਾਰ ‘ਚੋ  ਬਾਹਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਨਿਕਲ ਸਕਦੀ। ਇਹ ਤਾਂ ਅਜੇ ਪੂਣੀ ‘ਚੋ ਤੰਦ ਕੱਤਣ ਦੇ ਬਰਾਬਰ ਵੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੀ। ਅਜੇ ਇਸ  ਨਸਲ ਦੇ ਹੋਰ ਬਹੁਤ ਸੱਪ ਨੇ ਜਿੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੀ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨਦੇਹੀ ਕਰਨੀ ਬਾਕੀ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਜੇਕਰ ਅਸੀਂ ਸਾਰੀਆਂ  ਜਥੇਬੰਦੀਆਂ ਆਪੋ ਆਪਣੇ ਵਖਰੇਵੇ, ਹਉਮੇਂ, ਈਰਖਾ, ਸਾੜਾ ਤਿਆਗ ਕੇ ਇਸ ਕੌਮੀ ਕਾਰਜ਼ ਲਈ ਤੁਰ ਪਈਏ ਤਾਂ  ਖਾਲਸੇ ਲਈ ਕੋਈ ਵੀ ਮੰਜ਼ਲ ਬਹੁਤੀ ਦੂਰ ਨਹੀਂ। ਆਉ ਸਾਰੇ ਮਿਲ ਕੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੇ ਚਰਨਾਂ ‘ਚ ਅਰਦਾਸ  ਬੇਨਤੀ ਕਰੀਏ ਕਿ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਸਭ ਨੂੰ ਸੁਮੱਤ ਬਖਸ਼ੇ ਤੇ ਅਸੀਂ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਬੁੱਕਲ ਦੇ ਸੱਪਾਂ ਦੀ  ਪਹਿਚਾਣ ਕਰ ਸਕੀਏ ਤਾਂ ਜੋ ਇਹ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਭਰਾ ਮਾਰੂ ਜੰਗ ਵਿੱਚ ਉਲਝਾ ਕੇ ਕੌਮ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵੱਲੋਂ  ਦੱਸੇ ਗਾਡੀ ਰਾਹ ਤੋਂ ਉਲਝਾ ਕੇ ਕੌਮ ਦੀ ਬੇੜੀ ਨੂੰ ਹੋਰ ਔਝੜੇ ਨਾ ਪਾ ਸਕਣ। ਆਸ ਕਰਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਅਸੀਂ  ਤੇ ਸਾਡੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਜੋ ਘਰੋਂ (ਗੁਰੂ ਘਰੋਂ) ਦੂਰ ਜਾ ਚੁੱਕੇ ਹਨ ਵਾਪਿਸ ਅਪਣੇ ਘਰ ਨੂੰ ਮੋੜਾ ਪਾ ਸਕੀਏ  ਤੇ “ਇਹ ਲੋਕ ਸੁਖੀਏ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਸੁਹੇਲੇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਆਪਹਿ ਮੇਲੇ  ॥4॥ (ਪੰਨਾ-292)” ਦੇ ਮਹਾਂਵਾਕ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਆਪਣਾ ਹਲਤ-ਪਲਤ ਸਵਾਰ ਲਈਏ। ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਨੂੰ  ਸਭ ਨੂੰ ਘਰ ਵਾਪਸੀ ਲਈ ਉਦਮ ਤੇ ਬਲ ਬਖਸ਼ੇ।

ਤੱਤ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਦੇ ਪਾਂਧੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਚਰਨ ਧੂੜ,

ਜਤਿੰਦਰ ਪਾਲ ਸਿੰਘ ਗੁਰਦਾਸਪੁਰ
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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 24, 2015)

http://www.khalsanews.org/articles/2011/07July2011/08 Jul 11 Bukkal de snake - JS Gurdaspur.htm


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