# Our 4 Days In Maya



## Astroboy (Dec 9, 2008)

The given definition of Maya at this link
maya - definition of maya by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

The transitory, manifold appearance of the sensible world, which obscures the undifferentiated spiritual reality from which it originates; the illusory appearance of the sensible world.

Please view the full shabad :

Page 429, Line 6
ਇਹ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੀ ਸੋਭਾ ਚਾਰਿ ਦਿਹਾੜੇ ਜਾਦੀ ਬਿਲਮੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੫॥
इह माइआ की सोभा चारि दिहाड़े जादी बिलमु न होइ ॥५॥
Ih mā▫i▫ā kī sobẖā cẖār ḏihāṛe jāḏī bilam na ho▫e. ||5||
The glory of this Maya lasts for only for four days; it disappears in an instant. ||5||
*Guru Amar Das*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


----------



## pk70 (Dec 9, 2008)

namjap said:


> The given definition of Maya at this link
> maya - definition of maya by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
> 
> The transitory, manifold appearance of the sensible world, which obscures the undifferentiated spiritual reality from which it originates; the illusory appearance of the sensible world.
> ...



*Guru goes further to wake the humans from slumbering in play of Maya and forgetting the end which is inching closer, if any one listening, please read on[/FONT]*
*ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੨ **॥ 
**Sirīrāg mėhlā 1 gẖar 2. 
**Siree Raag, First Mehl, Second House: 

**ਧਨੁ ਜੋਬਨੁ ਅਰੁ ਫੁਲੜਾ ਨਾਠੀਅੜੇ ਦਿਨ ਚਾਰਿ **॥ 
**Ḏẖan joban ar fulṛā nāṯẖī▫aṛe ḏin cẖār. 
**Wealth, the beauty of youth and flowers are guests for only a few days. ( It has time limit)

**ਪਬਣਿ ਕੇਰੇ ਪਤ ਜਿਉ ਢਲਿ ਢੁਲਿ ਜੁੰਮਣਹਾਰ **॥**੧**॥ 
**Pabaṇ kere paṯ ji▫o dẖal dẖul jummaṇhār. ||1|| 
**Like the leaves of the water-lily, they wither and fade and finally die. ||1|| ( Example is to understand how they fade with time limit)

**ਰੰਗੁ ਮਾਣਿ ਲੈ ਪਿਆਰਿਆ ਜਾ ਜੋਬਨੁ ਨਉ ਹੁਲਾ **॥ 
**Rang māṇ lai pi▫āri▫ā jā joban na▫o hulā. 
**Be happy, dear beloved, as long as your youth is fresh and delightful. (Note> Hint is at contemplating on the Lord’s name and to enjoy living in His Love)

**ਦਿਨ ਥੋੜੜੇ ਥਕੇ ਭਇਆ ਪੁਰਾਣਾ ਚੋਲਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ **॥ 
**Ḏin thoṛ▫ṛe thake bẖa▫i▫ā purāṇā cẖolā. ||1|| rahā▫o. 
**But your days are few-you have grown weary, and now your body has grown old. ||1||Pause|| ( A warning about closer visit of old age)

**ਸਜਣ ਮੇਰੇ ਰੰਗੁਲੇ ਜਾਇ ਸੁਤੇ ਜੀਰਾਣਿ **॥ 
**Sajaṇ mere rangule jā▫e suṯe jārāṇ. 
**My playful friends have gone to sleep in the graveyard. ( example of some one closer answered the call of the Lord)

**ਹੰ ਭੀ ਵੰਞਾ ਡੁਮਣੀ ਰੋਵਾ ਝੀਣੀ ਬਾਣਿ **॥**੨**॥ 
**Haŉ bẖī vañā dumṇī rovā jẖīṇī bāṇ. ||2|| 
**In my double-mindedness, I shall have to go as well. I cry in a feeble voice. ||2|| ( we see the truth but for some reason we try to forget)

**ਕੀ ਨ ਸੁਣੇਹੀ ਗੋਰੀਏ ਆਪਣ ਕੰਨੀ ਸੋਇ **॥ 
**Kī na suṇehī gorī▫e āpaṇ kannī so▫e. 
**Haven't you heard the call from beyond, O beautiful soul-bride? 
**ਲਗੀ ਆਵਹਿ ਸਾਹੁਰੈ ਨਿਤ ਨ ਪੇਈਆ ਹੋਇ **॥**੩**॥ 
**Lagī āvahi sāhurai niṯ na pe▫ī▫ā ho▫e. ||3|| 
**You must go to your in-laws; you cannot stay with your parents forever. ||3|| 
( The meaning of these Guru Vaakas is:  isn’t it a fact that we hear that after birth, after spending some time here, we have to leave to face the Lord as no one ever stayed here? Haven’t we heard it?)

**ਨਾਨਕ ਸੁਤੀ ਪੇਈਐ ਜਾਣੁ ਵਿਰਤੀ ਸੰਨਿ **॥ 
**Nānak suṯī pe▫ī▫ai jāṇ virṯī sann. 
**O Nanak, know that she who sleeps in her parents' home is plundered in broad daylight. ( In slumber of Maya, soul is being robbed of virtues and time to meditate on the Lord)

**ਗੁਣਾ ਗਵਾਈ ਗੰਠੜੀ ਅਵਗਣ ਚਲੀ ਬੰਨਿ **॥**੪**॥**੨੪**॥ 
**Guṇā gavā▫ī ganṯẖ▫ṛī avgaṇ cẖalī bann. ||4||24|| 
**She has lost her bouquet of merits; gathering one of demerits, she departs. ||4||24||( **One remains involved in Maya and deeds are done of low quality in Maya love, then the Death grabs and what soul has to present?)**[/FONT]*


----------



## JimRinX (Dec 13, 2008)

Yes, my good ji, loosing oneself in the prusuit of the deceptive pleasures of Maya _can _be a Bad Thing; but after you die and your book of life is read, you may discover that such pleasures were the closest thing that you'd ever known - in your Mortal Life - to the Nirvana that you will, in the Bardo, be experiencing - at least during the duration of said mortal lifetime - for the first time in your memory.
This is why I disagree with those who are too Socially Conservative; as they would have us live our lives without these pleasures, and that causes people to become bitter and evil minded - just as a lack of proper perspective vis-a-vis Women, Sex, Hashish, etc., can lead one to become irresponsible in that they spend too much effort in the pursuit of this kind of 'false' happiness.
Lying in the rams of your Loved One - your special one - is, for many people, as close as they will come to knowing Nirvana - as a Mortal; therefore, it should be encouraged - but only after they've been indoctrinated with the preceeding precautionary knowledge!!!
Don't cave in - if your in America - to the 'Conservatives'; you, and your Sikh belief system (including it's very un-Catholic Sexual P.O.V.), are beautiful; while most of these who would challenge you - who would take advantage of your desire to appear proprietous - are mostly a bunch of hypocrits.
Love. Your American Friend; JimRinX


----------



## pk70 (Dec 13, 2008)

JimRinX said:


> Yes, my good ji, loosing oneself in the prusuit of the deceptive pleasures of Maya _can _be a Bad Thing; but after you die and your book of life is read, you may discover that such pleasures were the closest thing that you'd ever known - in your Mortal Life - to the Nirvana that you will, in the Bardo, be experiencing - at least during the duration of said mortal lifetime - for the first time in your memory.
> This is why I disagree with those who are too Socially Conservative; as they would have us live our lives without these pleasures, and that causes people to become bitter and evil minded - just as a lack of proper perspective vis-a-vis Women, Sex, Hashish, etc., can lead one to become irresponsible in that they spend too much effort in the pursuit of this kind of 'false' happiness.
> Lying in the rams of your Loved One - your special one - is, for many people, as close as they will come to knowing Nirvana - as a Mortal; therefore, it should be encouraged - but only after they've been indoctrinated with the preceeding precautionary knowledge!!!
> Don't cave in - if your in America - to the 'Conservatives'; you, and your Sikh belief system (including it's very un-Catholic Sexual P.O.V.), are beautiful; while most of these who would challenge you - who would take advantage of your desire to appear proprietous - are mostly a bunch of hypocrits.
> Love. Your American Friend; JimRinX



*Enlightened ones experienced eternal happiness, the people,deep down in the quagmire of so called momentarily pleasures, fell on their feet to be saved; it is not a story of one religion but all. Where ever enlightened ones asked people to stay on a track, there were always those who remained enveloped in their bragging achievements.. Without having that enlightened experience, one is free to bark at the wind
*


----------



## spnadmin (Dec 13, 2008)

pk70 Veer ji,

I want to remember this message. There will be many other times on the forum when it needs to be said. It says so much that is true. 



pk70 said:


> *Enlightened ones experienced eternal happiness, the people,deep down in the quagmire of so called momentarily pleasures, fell on their feet to be saved; it is not a story of one religion but all. Where ever enlightened ones asked people to stay on a track, there were always those who remained enveloped in their bragging achievements.. Without having that enlightened experience, one is free to bark at the wind
> *



JimRinX ji, 

My appreciation of pk70 ji's remark does not imply that I disagree with you. In fact, you are creating a zone of compassion and tolerance for ordinary people who may not have come to that threshold where awareness peers through the clouds of mind. It is a balancing act -- to know what detachments and discernments we are impelled to choose for ourselves as individuals; and to know that others must be allowed to live their lives without harsh moral review. For me both ways are extremely difficult. My inability to find this balance is my greatest deficiency as a human being. I am not a Buddhist, but it is true that in the Tibetan school the greater vehicle is to hold one's personal salvation in abeyance in both life and in death in order to help others to achieve their spiritual destiny. That is the ultimate act of compassion. Perhaps the urge for compassion is what you are expressing in your remarks.


----------



## JimRinX (Dec 14, 2008)

Dear: aaad002 (a.k.a.: Antonia, if I recall correctly)
Thank You for the caring response; as I seem to - once again - have been accused of having a less than humble, object obssessed, attitude problem.
Perhaps this is so; the fact is that a group of Christians has interfered with my Disability Process (I have a Painful Neuropathy) to get me labeled Mentally Ill, instead.
This has happened because they are Religeous Fascists - with a friend in the White House who is willing to humor them, to the point of allowing them to Violate my Rights in several ways, so as to maitain their support (they are the 20% who still 'like W').
While I do consider myself a Buddhist (though, maybe, I should be a Sikh), I seem to defy most 'definitions'; but then you know that I got my primary beliefs from 'the source' - and The Lord IS Beautiful; which is why I'm attracted to Sikhism - and any other beliefs systems that seem to agree with what I was shown.
My problem is, and the Christian Right is stirring up trouble for me here - in all sectors, perhaps even amongst Sikhs - that THEY think that I THINK that I'm "Jesus".
While I feel Lucky for my Spiritual Journey - and what The Lord showed me about 'Life, The Universe, and Everything' (love Douglas Adams!); I've have been made to regret ever speaking of it - so please excuse me if I sound like I'm bragging or bitching; in the former case - NEVER, I just care and want to share, and in the latter case YES I am bitching!
Please don't let anyone fool you; I'm not an Acid Head - or Crazy (or a Cultist), I'm not looking for Disciples or to found a New Kingdom of God; I'm simply under attack by The Christian Right - and I'm quite bitter about it, as I loved my Country before they threw out our Constitution - in my case, at least - in an effort to shut me up.
I guess my statements about Maya derive from the fact that I've been hassled by Catholic Women about Pre-Marital Sex - which though it is actually O.K., under mutually respectful circumstances, with God; I've had such women screech at me that "They hate their Husbands, they don't know what an Orgasm is, they only had Sex because the Bible said thatt they had to."
Now do you understand me better? These people a SINNERS, they want others to repeat their same mistakes - in 'Gods' name - when, in fact, they are bitter, evil people who are using Gid to force other people to be miserable, too! Misery loves company, they say.
I guess that I'm just trying to express to Forum Members taht they should not be like these so-called Christians. I'm NOT saying that you should be - or that I am - deluded by the Mortal Pleasures; as the path to True Enlightenment does indeed lie elsewhere.
Please, if the rumors have reached the SPN, know that I suffer Pain; that I'm not a 'Druggie' who "took Acid and saw an Aura" (that's what they told the Monks at my Temple!); my experience was Real - and I'd be doing us all a diservice by not sharing it with like minds.
I did, after all, promise the Being that 'instantly' caused my hair to turn white - in a narrow streak above and between my eyes (during Meditation) that I'd share It's Gift to Me with all who would listen.
Please don't consider me unhumble for fulfilling this obligation. After all; can YOU - or even a Scientist at CERN - cause a Physiological Change like that?


----------



## spnadmin (Dec 14, 2008)

JimRinX ji

I am myself negative, critical and judgmental even when my better nature tries to stop me. Every night when I take account of my actions and my emotions there are too many examples where I have failed. When people on the forum seem narrow controlling and mean-spirited always remember that these expressions come from fear. That is the whole story. Fear in life and Fear of death. And when we let the SatGuru release us from our burdens that ends. But few have reached that level.

As long as you are a member who is not someone who deals in hatred nothing will happen to you. No "stories" are going to reach us. So please relax and find your place in dharma. 

Sat Nam


----------



## pk70 (Dec 14, 2008)

JimRinX said:


> Dear: aaad002 (a.k.a.: Antonia, if I recall correctly)
> Thank You for the caring response; as I seem to - once again - have been accused of having a less than humble, object obssessed, attitude problem.
> Perhaps this is so; the fact is that a group of Christians has interfered with my Disability Process (I have a Painful Neuropathy) to get me labeled Mentally Ill, instead.
> This has happened because they are Religeous Fascists - with a friend in the White House who is willing to humor them, to the point of allowing them to Violate my Rights in several ways, so as to maitain their support (they are the 20% who still 'like W').
> ...


*jimRinX Ji*

*My apologies ji if you have felt that way. My statement is not about judging you but to express a truth in context of spiritual success and the commotion some create due to lack of spiritual experience.*
*My heartily prayers for you in all aspects, forgive me if you are offended in any way*


----------



## Saint Soldier (Dec 14, 2008)

Sat shri akal,



> When people on the forum seem narrow controlling and mean-spirited always remember that these expressions come from fear.That is the whole story


wow! Forum philosophy:rofl!!:


----------



## pk70 (Dec 14, 2008)

SAINT SOLDIER said:


> Sat shri akal,
> 
> 
> wow! Forum philosophy:rofl!!:



*Kindly elaborate how one becomes controlling and mean spirited if disagreement is expressed. Blaming always others than accepting opposite views itself represents not much positive.
*


----------



## spnadmin (Dec 14, 2008)

pk70 said:


> *Kindly elaborate how one becomes controlling and mean spirited if disagreement is expressed. Blaming always others than accepting opposite views itself represents not much positive.
> *



Pk70 ji

I think I started something I did not intend to start. My words were not directed against you nor do I think JimRinX was specifically referring to you. He was speaking generally about narrow-mindedness in religious circles. I was saying that sometimes that happens here too at SPN. Wherever it happens we have to understand that people are not perfect.

Sainty ji -- What is your point about forum philosophy? You see something humorous and what I see is misunderstanding. Thanks for any explanation that you can give.

Antonia


----------



## pk70 (Dec 14, 2008)

aad0002 said:


> Pk70 ji
> 
> I think I started something I did not intend to start. My words were not directed against you nor do I think JimRinX was specifically referring to you. He was speaking generally about narrow-mindedness in religious circles. I was saying that sometimes that happens here too at SPN. Wherever it happens we have to understand that people are not perfect.
> 
> ...



*No aad Bhain jio,
 It is not you, it is just some thing within we mortal  harbor, when we face the truth, we just stagger, the first reaction is to blame others,Who feel like wise, join the club. You have done nothing, said nothing, in this context only your post stands intact in fairness.*:yes:


----------



## spnadmin (Dec 14, 2008)

pk70 ji

Thank you. You have expressed the view much better than I did.


----------



## Astroboy (Dec 15, 2008)

I'm confused about this duality thing. Can someone please shed some light on this. 
There are two shabads which seem to contradict each other.

Shabad No.1 

Sabh Kich Ghar Mein Bahar Nahi
Bahar Dhundai to Bharam Bhulayee.

Everything is within the self, nothing is outside.
We are deluded if we attempt to find Him from the outside.

Shabad No.2

Eh Jag Sache Ki Hai Kothree
Sache Ka Vich Vaas

This world is the home of the True One
The True One resides within his creation.

:hmm:


----------



## pk70 (Dec 15, 2008)

namjap said:


> I'm confused about this duality thing. Can someone please shed some light on this.
> There are two shabads which seem to contradict each other.
> 
> Shabad No.1
> ...


   I'm confused about this duality thing. Can someone please shed some light on this. 
There are two shabads which seem to contradict each other.(quote namjapji)

*Shabad No.1 

Sabh Kich Ghar Mein Bahar Nahi
Bahar Dhundai to Bharam Bhulayee.*

*Everything is within the self, nothing is outside.
We are deluded if we attempt to find Him from the outside.*
*Namjap ji, how come you think these two Guru vakas have any thing to do with duality? *
*In them two different aspects are addressed*
*In the first one, Guru is addressing those who leave themselves within as they are but start looking the Lord in Mosques, Mandirs, Gurduwaras, on pilgrimage-sites and Jungles. Advice is this that the all pervading Lord can be found within. Hint is that if we first look at our own mind, mold it in Lord’s love, His existence will be felt, if that occurs, “every thing within experience” materializes.

Shabad No.2

Eh Jag Sache Ki Hai Kothree
Sache Ka Vich Vaas
*
*this world is the home of the True One
The True One resides within his creation.*
*In the above Guru Vaak, Guru ji  is elaborating “The Lord and His existence in His creation”, all the world is His and He permeates in it. However, it doesn’t mean He can be found outside, if you try, where is that special place? There is none. He is realized within. Looking for Him on different places is ignorance; His realization still comes through within if one reaches to that state of mind. As said earlier, this Guru Vaak expresses His infinite nature contrary to what you have figured out.*
*Duality word in Gurbani expresses the divided love of the mortals; advice is to love only the one Lord instead of knocking numerous doors in frustration, in love, if duality exists, it takes away the merit of love.*


----------



## Astroboy (Dec 15, 2008)

Pk70 Ji, thanks for your attempt. This earth and physical universe is His residence
 and this physical creation is subject to change and dissolution. It is also known as
 a lesser reality or Maya. Because it is impermanent. It can be compared with
 Einstein's theory of Relativity - there are as many realities as are its observers. 
Eh Jag Sache Ki Hai Kothree - please explain further.


----------



## pk70 (Dec 15, 2008)

namjap said:


> Pk70 Ji, thanks for your attempt. This earth and physical universe is His residence
> and this physical creation is subject to change and dissolution. It is also known as
> a lesser reality or Maya. Because it is impermanent. It can be compared with
> Einstein's theory of Relativity - there are as many realities as are its observers.
> Eh Jag Sache Ki Hai Kothree - please explain further.



*ਮਹਲਾ ੨ **॥ **ਇਹੁ ਜਗੁ ਸਚੈ ਕੀ ਹੈ ਕੋਠੜੀ ਸਚੇ ਕਾ ਵਿਚਿ ਵਾਸੁ **॥ **ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਸਮਾਇ ਲਏ ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਹੁਕਮੇ ਕਰੇ ਵਿਣਾਸੁ **॥ **ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਭਾਣੈ ਕਢਿ ਲਏ ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਵਿਚਿ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ **॥ **ਏਵ ਭਿ ਆਖਿ ਨ ਜਾਪਈ ਜਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਆਣੇ ਰਾਸਿ **॥ **ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਆਪਿ ਕਰੇ ਪਰਗਾਸੁ **॥**੩**॥ *
*2nd Guru. **This world is the True Lord's chamber and within it is the abode of the True One. **Some, by His order, He absorbs in Himself, and some, by His order, He destroys. **Some at His pleasure, He withdraws from mammon, and others He causes to abide therein. **This too cannot be said, as to whom He will reclaim. **Nanak, he alone is known to be Guru-ward unto whom the Lord reveals Himself. *
*In this Sloka Guru ji first expresses the Lord and His relation with His creation meaning He permeates in it, its all about His eternity and infinite control. Next he states Lord’s Will. As He wills He takes some back into Him and others remain in cycle where destruction and creation is in process. Right here as we witness, there are some people who, as per His Will, remain imbued with Him and there are others who stay glued to Maya. Next Vaak is very important to understand His Will; Guru says that literally no one can tell who is going to be put on right path by Him. Guru says that whom HE reveals Himself is a true Guru follower. This statement fortifies the stress on “GUR PARSAAD” It also should be considered as a measure of progression we claim to do in on spiritual path.*


----------



## Astroboy (Dec 16, 2008)

PK70 Ji,

So far so good. 

*Shabad No.1 

Sabh Kich Ghar Mein Bahar Nahi
Bahar Dhundai to Bharam Bhulayee.

*We have discussed about Creation, dissolution, His Hukam and His Grace.*

*So now when we are to find him with His Grace, we have to do it from within ourselves
 because without the observer there can be no universe. Therefore, what we are 
observing as outside ourselves is a projection from our inner vision. So it is, as without 
our observation there is no projection thus reality is in the inner and not the outer. 
 We ourselves are the reality who project an illusion-like physical universe outside ourselves.
Please comment.*
*


----------



## pk70 (Dec 16, 2008)

namjap said:


> PK70 Ji,
> 
> So far so good.
> 
> ...


----------



## Astroboy (Dec 16, 2008)

Good attempt, PK70 Ji. Thank you. You know while reading SGGS (sehaj paath)
 I have come to realize many things which in the past never occured to me to be true. 
It is like trying everything else except actually reading SGGS - a whole 30 fruitless years 
just past by. And now I face the beautiful wisdom of SGGS which surpasses all other knowledge.
 But at times, those ego-supported theories do take the better of me and cause me birha again.


----------



## Astroboy (Jan 15, 2009)

ਸਲੋਕੁ  ਮਃ  ੩  ॥ 
सलोकु मः ३ ॥ 
Salok mėhlā 3. 
Shalok, Third Mehl: 

ਸੂਹਵੀਏ  ਸੂਹਾ  ਸਭੁ  ਸੰਸਾਰੁ  ਹੈ  ਜਿਨ  ਦੁਰਮਤਿ  ਦੂਜਾ  ਭਾਉ  ॥ 
सूहवीए सूहा सभु संसारु है जिन दुरमति दूजा भाउ ॥ 
Sūhvī▫e sūhā sabẖ sansār hai jin ḏurmaṯ ḏūjā bẖā▫o. 
O red-robed woman, the whole world is red, engrossed in evil-mindedness and the love of duality. 

ਖਿਨ  ਮਹਿ  ਝੂਠੁ  ਸਭੁ  ਬਿਨਸਿ  ਜਾਇ  ਜਿਉ  ਟਿਕੈ  ਨ  ਬਿਰਖ  ਕੀ  ਛਾਉ  ॥ 
खिन महि झूठु सभु बिनसि जाइ जिउ टिकै न बिरख की छाउ ॥ 
Kẖin mėh jẖūṯẖ sabẖ binas jā▫e ji▫o tikai na birakẖ kī cẖẖā▫o. 
In an instant, this falsehood totally vanishes; like the shade of a tree, it is gone. 

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਲਾਲੋ  ਲਾਲੁ  ਹੈ  ਜਿਉ  ਰੰਗਿ  ਮਜੀਠ  ਸਚੜਾਉ  ॥ 
गुरमुखि लालो लालु है जिउ रंगि मजीठ सचड़ाउ ॥ 
Gurmukẖ lālo lāl hai ji▫o rang majīṯẖ sacẖṛā▫o. 
The Gurmukh is the deepest crimson of crimson, dyed in the permanent color of the Lord's Love. 

ਉਲਟੀ  ਸਕਤਿ  ਸਿਵੈ  ਘਰਿ  ਆਈ  ਮਨਿ  ਵਸਿਆ  ਹਰਿ  ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ  ਨਾਉ  ॥ 
उलटी सकति सिवै घरि आई मनि वसिआ हरि अम्रित नाउ ॥ 
Ultī sakaṯ sivai gẖar ā▫ī man vasi▫ā har amriṯ nā▫o. 
She turns away from Maya, and enters the celestial home of the Lord; the Ambrosial Name of the Lord dwells within her mind. 

ਨਾਨਕ  ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ  ਗੁਰ  ਆਪਣੇ  ਜਿਤੁ  ਮਿਲਿਐ  ਹਰਿ  ਗੁਣ  ਗਾਉ  ॥੧॥ 
नानक बलिहारी गुर आपणे जितु मिलिऐ हरि गुण गाउ ॥१॥ 
Nānak balihārī gur āpṇe jiṯ mili▫ai har guṇ gā▫o. ||1|| 
O Nanak, I am a sacrifice to my Guru; meeting Him, I sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord. ||1||


----------



## JimRinX (Jan 15, 2009)

aaad002 & pk70
Thank You for the responses on page 1 of this thread, I had not read all of them until today. I was not offended, pk70, though thank you for caring about my feelings; it's a relief - as I actually have had a kind of 'attack' heaped upon me, and it actually has been motivated by my not being what passes for a Christian in America nowadays, so - therefore - I tend to be rather defensive.:inca:
And to you, aaad002, I Thank You for (always) being so compasionate regarding any dsicomfort or percieved offense that you detect in the content of my entries; you are a Beautiful Person!!!:yes:
I have good reason to hope that with Barack Obama at the Helm, and the 'Right-Wing Super-Racists'; who I deeply offended, in 1982, by betraying The EVIL Ku Klux Klan; no longer in the key Buereacratic positions that they've been using to cause me to experience a lot of unnecessary stress - largely by violating my rights as a Physically Disabled person (as that's been Painful!), that I will Mellow Out a LOT!!!
Hopefully, this will lead to more, more pertinent motivational moments, and more postings from myslef, that don't lead all of you to feel that you've offended me; as I'm afraid that I've been using SPN both for the Interesting Blogging that we've all enjoyed, but also as a kind of 'Toxic Emotion/Stress Dumping Ground'.
Thanks for listening with patience and caring; and know that - since we share many of the same antagonist - I may just have a viable litigatory retort to some of what those who would call you a "Towel Head", and me a would-be Anti-Christ who is out to steal their childrens Eternal Souls (and no, I'm not kidding! That's why I seem so 'touchy'), have been up to over the last eight years!!!


----------



## spnadmin (Jan 15, 2009)

"Thanks for listening with patience and caring; and know that - since we share many of the same antagonist - I may just have a viable litigatory retort to some of what those who would call you a "Towel Head", and me a would-be Anti-Christ who is out to steal their childrens Eternal Souls (and no, I'm not kidding! That's why I seem so 'touchy'), have been up to over the last eight years!!"

JimRinX ji

I think that once you can say what you said above -- out in the open and to other people, you are on your way to a mellow way of thought. It is a process. It happens because you can put that thought out into the universe and know that somewhere in the universe there are others who understand and do not judge you for acknowledging your feelings of pain and injury. Look forward to hearing from you again.


----------



## Saint Soldier (Jan 25, 2009)

Respected namjap ji,
brother i was standing without any thought in my mind suddenly i saw  mens who came running and started climbing a hill which was just few steps ahead of me and i thought what are they doing? suddenly a thought came can i do the same thing i went and i tried along with some other fellows i was amazed when all those who accompanied me have reached and i was still in the foot steps i tried to explain my self sainty you must have worked harder and all that stuff but when i saw those mens at the top i really felt bad so bad that all my philosophy failed to keep me calm i said enough and a very negative attitude followed this i was helpless.can you explain me why this foolish sainty was feeling bad was there a feeling of guilt,sadness of my failure or i was jealous of others success.plz help me i need an answer .
may Allah bless you


----------



## JimRinX (Jan 26, 2009)

Saint Soldier said:


> Respected namjap ji,
> brother i was standing without any thought in my mind suddenly i saw mens who came running and started climbing a hill which was just few steps ahead of me and i thought what are they doing? suddenly a thought came can i do the same thing i went and i tried along with some other fellows i was amazed when all those who accompanied me have reached and i was still in the foot steps i tried to explain my self sainty you must have worked harder and all that stuff but when i saw those mens at the top i really felt bad so bad that all my philosophy failed to keep me calm i said enough and a very negative attitude followed this i was helpless.can you explain me why this foolish sainty was feeling bad was there a feeling of guilt,sadness of my failure or i was jealous of others success.plz help me i need an answer .
> may Allah bless you


Saint Soldier; I don't know if I can help you - but I can _relate _to the emotions that led you to write this entry, and how they drive you to seek the advice/help of others, as I was once a troubled 18 year old man, too.
Take, for example, your choice of 'Saint Soldier' as your 'tag'; I can tell that you long to behave in a truly Saintly manner - and that you wish that you could make others behave in a more saintly manner, as well; as I once believed that I had the Wisdom to judge those around me to teh degree that I felt that I should be allowed to _force them in some way or another_, to behave in a manner that I felt they should.
The only problem is that, like most men and women so young, while you have some kind of a _thing within you _that _drives you _to be a Better Person - you also _know, _deep within your Heart, that you don't _really have _either the right to do so, or - truly - the _actual _level of wisdom that would be neccesary for you to have, to make overiding that fundamental truth a just and fair thing to do; and that, along with so much else in the world that you see - especially those things which make you jealous with yearning, bothers you in a most profound and troubling manner.
It's O.K., Saint Soldier; I wasn't able to come to terms with such feelings myself until i was at least 25!!!
The answers you seek are already at hand; in the wisdom that will lead you to the Sikhi (I hope taht I use that definition right; as I mean to say a sort of Sikh 'Bhakti', but I'm a Buddhist/Sikh/Muslim/Everything - by Gods demand - and I am still learning too), in the wisdom of the Buddhas' teachings about how engaging in loving-kind mutual self sacrifice will provide everything that everyone (you too, of course) needs all of the time, the example set by Mahatma Ghandi, etc..
It just takes some time to get in tune with things; especially for us Males with our raging Hormones - which are even more trroubling, at your age - etc.; so, like we say in America, "Don't let it (or them) get you down, Man!"
I'm not sure what cultural moores that you choose to - or are expected to - live by; but the Loving Arms of a Woman - be she your Soul Mate, or not - can be of great solice at such a youthful age; though please don't be offended by my Western Decadence for saying so - it's just that we all have to deal with those Hormones, no matter what we believe or think or belive is correct behavior in regards to _that_ subject.
Hang in there, and; if you aren't living as affluent of a lifestyle as you'd like to - or as the others around you - and that makes you feel like a failure; then, instead of dwelling upon that fact, try to focus upon the blessings that you do have - even if they amount to nothing more than having a Smaller Carbon Footprint than that Guy with the Maserati!:yes:


----------



## Astroboy (Jan 26, 2009)

Saint Soldier said:


> Respected namjap ji,
> brother i was standing without any thought in my mind suddenly i saw  mens who came running and started climbing a hill which was just few steps ahead of me and i thought what are they doing? suddenly a thought came can i do the same thing i went and i tried along with some other fellows i was amazed when all those who accompanied me have reached and i was still in the foot steps i tried to explain my self sainty you must have worked harder and all that stuff but when i saw those mens at the top i really felt bad so bad that all my philosophy failed to keep me calm i said enough and a very negative attitude followed this i was helpless.can you explain me why this foolish sainty was feeling bad was there a feeling of guilt,sadness of my failure or i was jealous of others success.plz help me i need an answer .
> may Allah bless you



Each one of you, because you are alive, will make a voyage. What will this voyage be like? Who are you? What is the purpose of this voyage ? Why does it have to be made?

The human being is an incredibly sensitive, experiencing instrument. Place in it the truth that resides in you, and it will sing out with ecstasy. Play it with the passion it deserves, and you will hear sounds you have been yearning to hear all your life.

It’s about this life, this existence—not an idea, not a theory, not rules, not some printed pages, but about you and me. The most incredible thing is taking place: you are alive … your existence, your being on the face of this earth.

What kind of road is life?
Some parts are hilly; some are flat; some have a nice, gentle slope; and some way too much slope, slippery.
Walk. The key is not to measure how many miles you have come, but to enjoy every single step you take.

http://tprf.org/podcasts.htm


----------



## Saint Soldier (Jan 27, 2009)

Sat shri akal,

thank you brothers for your scraps they were really heart touching,they taught me as well inspired me to begin a new life with optimistic ideas but i really m sad with the feeling that has erupted in side me i often burst out at my self blaming others as well as my self for all my sufferings.although my sufferings are not that big still i feel miserable when i c others doing much better than me and specially bcz of the reason that we started moving to our destination  at once but i was left behind.they often say that time is the best healer but is it true? time sometimes increases the pain and there is little that we can do but the lesson i have learned is "Do what ever you can do now so that you may not have to repent later" The thing that makes me sad is that i never failed i opted to quit bcz i feared i would fail in half way,fear of failure is bcz of lack of self confidence i wish God showers a lot of self confidence at me now but then it has to be gained using you own wits.
but none of you has described or given any name to my feeling is it guilt,or jealousy or sadness of failure?

May Jesus bless you all


----------



## Astroboy (Jan 27, 2009)

Sainty Ji,

I hope you will benefit from this video series, seeing it repeatedly, I've made progress myself. Not only have I improved in my Gurdwara seva duties but also in my worldly living.

http://www.youtube.com/user/wealthvibesdotcom


----------



## JimRinX (Jan 27, 2009)

Part of post by Saint Soldier.
....but none of you has described or given any name to my feeling is it guilt,or jealousy or sadness of failure?
The answer to that, my friend, i - in English 'angst'; and, along with namjap jis' no doubt quality recommendations, I think that you would find solace in the Tao Te Chi; as there is much in the wonderful work of True Wisdom about the Pursuit of Wealth and the True Nature of Happiness - as, depsite the urgings of needfulness that drive our commerialized, possession oriented way of life, there really isn't anyconnection between the two, just like namjap ji says.
It's all in your head, and you will only know true happiness in life - no matter how succesful you become at making money and acquiring things - once you master that concept.
Why, after all, do you think so many wealthy, succesful Movie Stars and Rock n' Roll Icons (think; Kurt Cobain, of Nirvana - who blew his own head off. Obviously he hadn't achieved it, eh?) are so miserable; so drug addicted; so prone to suicidal tendencies?
It's not for lack of money or success, my friend; and know that I know what I'm talking about here, as, for though I'm a _very poor _disability pensioner - who lost his beloved carreer and his dream of owning a nice country inn to a painful disease that is slowly paralyzing me, ten years ago - *I'M NONETHELESS A PRETTY HAPPY PERSON!!!*
But then I have my books, my intellect, and my SPN 'relief valve' you see!!!
Read some more of my Posts, if you have any doubt that you can survive your current crisises - if I've survived what Bush et al have put me through over the last 8 years!!!
And Thank You, for the blind Christians sake, for mentioning Jesus in your posts; I keep telling them that there have been MANY like him - and that they only think they way they do, because Bad People have sent them to WAR over 'God' so many times!!!
You're a Good Man, so hang in there!


----------



## spnadmin (Jan 27, 2009)

Gentle reminder that this thread is the Gurmat Vichaar section forum. The conversation has strayed from vichaar of the Guru's Wisdom as per the Bani of the Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Let's return to the subject of the thread. Thanks.


----------



## JimRinX (Jan 27, 2009)

aad0002!
I'm a bit surprised by that remark - especially after reading the opening post!
What else do you think is bothering this young Saint Soldier ji, if not the false desires of illusion of prosperity that the Maya represents?
Does he not seem to be a bit perturbed by the unhappy thought of 'falling behind' those who 'started the race at the same time'?
Though, as you know, I'm still learning about Sikhism - and have I have far to go, as there have been so many Gurus allaying to all of so much true wisdom; this thread nonetheless seemed a rather apt place to regard Saint Soldiers angst, to me!
I really feel for this guy! Maybe it's a 'guy' thing.


----------



## spnadmin (Jan 27, 2009)

JimRinX ji

I sincerely hope that you were not offended or put-off. My comment was based solely on the duty of "mod" or forum leader: i.e.,  to keep discussions relevant to the thread topic and also according to the purpose of the part of the forum where the thread is located. It was as it says -- a gentle reminder.

Gurmat vichaar has a specific meaning. Gurmat vichaar is not a reflection on personal spiritual opinions. When a thread is posted in Gurmat Vichaar there is an expectation that "gurmat vichaar" will occur. What is Gurmat Vichaar -- it is a reflection on a topic (e.g., maya, dharma, salvation and many other concepts in Gurbani) and the reflection is guided by the Bani of the Gurus. Gur and mat meaning the Gurus' wisdom. Vichaar meaning a meditation or contemplation with understanding. The thread began with Bani of the Guru, and reflection on the Bani and the use of related Bani would be the pattern of the vichaar.

So that is why I said that. You can see some typical examples of Gurmat Vichaar here at SPN, and other good examples at Sikhism: Reflections On Gurbani

And I am sorry if I sounded over-bearing. The thread has gone off-track several times and the thread starter keeps bringing us back to Gurbani.


----------



## JimRinX (Jan 28, 2009)

It's O.K. aad0002, I didn't realize that this was YOUR Thread, so I understand that you wanted it to be different; I just thought that it was appropriate to _apply _a little Gurmat to Saint soldiers problems, if that wasn't to immodest of a thing for ME to do. 
I thank you for the explaination of Gur and Mat, as well as Bani; as I speak only English (unfortunately).
I'm actually _very hard to offend, _so don't sweat it - I can 'take' a little construtive criticism, and advice, when necessary - and I look forward to corresponding with all of you in the future, as it has been both a pleasure and and educational experience to have joined SPN!
Now, get us back to the Gurus Wisdom, Ms. thread starter!


----------



## spnadmin (Jan 28, 2009)

JimRinX ji,

Nam Jap ji was the thread starter. I am only moderating. But I thank you for your kind and thoughtful remarks. You are always a pleasure to talk to.


----------



## Astroboy (Feb 13, 2009)

ਕਬੀਰ  ਮਾਟੀ  ਕੇ  ਹਮ  ਪੂਤਰੇ  ਮਾਨਸੁ  ਰਾਖਿਓ*ੁ  ਨਾਉ  ॥ 
कबीर माटी के हम पूतरे मानसु राखिओ नाउ ॥ 
Kabīr mātī ke ham pūṯre mānas rākẖi▫o nā▫o. 
Kabeer, we are puppets of clay, but we take the name of mankind. 

ਚਾਰਿ  ਦਿਵਸ  ਕੇ  ਪਾਹੁਨੇ  ਬਡ  ਬਡ  ਰੂੰਧਹਿ  ਠਾਉ  ॥੬੪॥ 
चारि दिवस के पाहुने बड बड रूंधहि ठाउ ॥६४॥ 
Cẖār ḏivas ke pāhune bad bad rūŉḏẖėh ṯẖā▫o. ||64|| 
We are guests here for only a few days, but we take up so much space. ||64||

[SIZE=-1]*Sri Guru Granth Sahib Page # :*[/SIZE]*1367* [SIZE=-1][/SIZE]


----------

