# 30 Day Amrit Vela - Introducing A New Member Blog



## chazSingh (May 20, 2013)

Satnaam Satsangat Ji,

Whilst i agree that 'counting' our efforts in our path to Waheguru is not the right way to do things...sometimes i feel some initial targets within the Sangat can help readers get out of some bad habits, to make that extra effort, for us each to uplift each other when the mind tells us to 'do it another day'. I'm one who suffers from these thoughts.

Would any of the Sangat be willing to do a 30 day amrit vel 'a' thon, as i like to call it? a Break from a world of opinions into a world of sikhs networked in the early hours immersed in the eternal amrit of Waheguru 
Whether you are a newbie who has been thinking of starting Amrit Vela, or a seasoned pro 

This is just a thread started to get some initial thoughts.

God Bless All


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## spnadmin (May 20, 2013)

chazSingh ji

How exactly would this work in the specifics? Especially across all the different time zones? Or for members who work a night shift, for example nurses, doctors, employees in IT 24/7 positions. Perhaps these questions would not be critical, but I am still interested on behalf of members who want more details.


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## Harry Haller (May 20, 2013)

what time exactly is amrit vela?:whislingmunda:


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (May 20, 2013)

There have ALWAYS been such THORNS....Babas began 111 Akhand Paath athons..then graduated to 51..101..501..1001..and so on..then theres the Kaulaan guys japja jaaps..1 hr..3 hr..4 hr,....essentially all these THORNS are just OPIATE for the Masses...first one needs just a dab of opium..then 10 grams..then it increases as the addiction spreads...and so the deras have 1001 SGGS lined up in neat rows with guys seated behind with WRAPPED MOUTHS...mumbling away...and still one has to WAITING PERIOD of days to YEARS for one such paath...AP Thorns in the "***"...Leading the Masses into the PIT and away from SGGS.


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## chazSingh (May 20, 2013)

spnadmin said:


> chazSingh ji
> 
> How exactly would this work in the specifics? Especially across all the different time zones? Or for members who work a night shift, for example nurses, doctors, employees in IT 24/7 positions. Perhaps these questions would not be critical, but I am still interested on behalf of members who want more details.



I guess it's just to get into a daily routine of doing Simran. I would like for opinions to be kept to a mimimum on specifics like 'when is amrit vela' or 'what if i can;t do those times'.

*Anytime would be great*...for people that do night shift etc...maybe when they get home...or before they leave for work...or whenever they go to bed.

*Simran for how long?*
*over a year ago* i started doing simran whilst lying in bed before sleep, until i fell asleep...and also on the way home from work at the local gurdwara, when it was quite...i could close my eyes and meditate on shabad....time ranged from 30 minutes to 1 hour.
*Present Day:* With Guru Ji's blessings i find i have sat for Simran for 2-3 hours on some days in one sitting (i don;t count) - it becomes enjoyable, and time just flies 

*Questions arise as to what is exactly amrit vela
*Anytime is amrit vela when our consciousness is attuned to Waheguru.
But there is something special about the hours of the early morning. For me waking between 2am and 6am felt completely different in terms of concentration, a quieter mind, and the energy felt. But this is just my personal experience...for all other readers, for newbies, just do it, try it with love and i;m sure it will be great anytime.

*What to do during Amrit Vela*?
I say whatever you can 
I sometimes listen or read Japji Sahib followed by Simran quietly, eyes closed and just trying to shut out the external world for a short while and just 'being', just breathing and letting go, hearing your heart beat, saying 'waheguru' 'satnaam' and just smiling and saying "here i am waheguru ji..just me and you now" 
other times i listen to kirtan and then do simran.


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## chazSingh (May 20, 2013)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> There have ALWAYS been such THORNS....Babas began 111 Akhand Paath athons..then graduated to 51..101..501..1001..and so on..then theres the Kaulaan guys japja jaaps..1 hr..3 hr..4 hr,....essentially all these THORNS are just OPIATE for the Masses...first one needs just a dab of opium..then 10 grams..then it increases as the addiction spreads...and so the deras have 1001 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji lined up in neat rows with guys seated behind with WRAPPED MOUTHS...mumbling away...and still one has to WAITING PERIOD of days to YEARS for one such paath...AP Thorns in the "***"...Leading the Masses into the PIT and away from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.



Satnaam Giani Ji,

Counting is 'i agree' un-called for when it comes to spirituality.

But the mind has created so many bad habits throughout life. maybe the Sangat doing something to try and break a few bad habits isn't such a bad thing.

Remove the '30' Day out of the subject if that pleases people.

sometimes people need to visualize a goal, a finish line, especially when the mind is so strong. A mind needs a finish line sometimes  but i believe once simran becomes daily or at least a regular occurance that the number 'DROPS' off and the love, the enjoyment, the amrit takes hold and we become intoxicated with it.

*some positivity please!!! *


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## spnadmin (May 20, 2013)

I am always interested in the practical aspects of projects like this so that we know what we are actually signing onto or rejecting based on more not little information. 

Aside from the practical aspects there is a different issue for me. Many other faiths have programs of worship that involve large groups engaged in multiple hour-long, day-long, week-long, repetitive observance. For example, novenas in the Roman Church. Over let's say 10 Saturdays a group convenes to say the the rosary to seek the intercession of a particular saint for the good of participant souls. These are often organized by a priest or member of a religious order. The practice often gains popularity and momentum and becomes part of a larger, more wide-spread congregational tradition. Speakers may also offer special prayers and sermons to encourage the faithful. The feeling of the doing of it becomes the important thing. 

With Sikhi, I wonder...

With any kind of ' 'a-thon' are we packaging our spiritual practice? As Gyani ji points out, the doing of it, as a regimen, stands to substitute for the individual reflection on it. Gyan is not the fundamental reason for it. Perhaps leading to the sense ... now that I have done it! Now I have this under my belt! The actions become the outcomes. The 'a-thon' becomes a rote experience. Everyone leaves feeling good because the doing of it is the end in itself. The focus on the "IT" changes things for me.


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## chazSingh (May 20, 2013)

spnadmin said:


> I am always interested in the practical aspects of projects like this so that we know what we are actually signing onto or rejecting based on more not little information.
> 
> Aside from the practical aspects there is a different issue for me. Many other faiths have programs of worship that involve large groups engaged in multiple hour-long, day-long, week-long, repetitive observance. For example, novenas in the Roman Church. Over let's say 10 Saturdays a group convenes to say the the rosary to seek the intercession of a particular saint for the good of participant souls. These are often organized by a priest or member of a religious order. The practice often gains popularity and momentum and becomes part of a larger, more wide-spread congregational tradition. Speakers may also offer special prayers and sermons to encourage the faithful. The feeling of the doing of it becomes the important thing.
> 
> ...



initially everything starts off with goals, something to work towards, a finish line of some sorts...


there are many people out there that want to try doing amrit vela, or daily simran...a longing inside to try and connect to Waheguru in a way that Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji describes, and sometimes sangat doing it together for a period of time (or even remove the words 30 day or amrit vel 'a' thon...doesnt matter) ... but doing it together is important...speaking to each other regularly about obstacles that occur, difficulties, the joys ... this inspires...this gets us going...this is how it got me going, got me moving, and now i don;t look back.

Maybe just maybe there is one reader out there that gets inspired.

Maybe i'm going about it in the wrong way....if you think of a more productive way, please put some ideas forward. otherwise all we're left again with is more opinion opinion opinions...when all that Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji says is:

faer k agai rakheeai jith dhisai dharabaar ||
So what offering can we place before Him, by which we might see the Darbaar of His Court?

muha k bolan boleeai jith sun dhharae piaar ||
What words can we speak to evoke His Love?

a(n)mrith vaelaa sach naao vaddiaaee veechaar ||
In the Amrit Vaylaa, the ambrosial hours before dawn, chant the True Name, and contemplate His Glorious Greatness.

karamee aavai kaparraa nadharee mokh dhuaar ||
By the karma of past actions, the robe of this physical body is obtained. By His Grace, the Gate of Liberation is found.

naanak eaevai jaaneeai sabh aapae sachiaar ||4||
O Nanak, know this well: the True One Himself is All. ||4||


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## chazSingh (May 20, 2013)

Imagine a Sangat where people post

"Hey, i tried to get up for amrit vela last night, but my mind was so strong, telling me to forget it today, start tomorow instead, and i just listened and fell asleep"

"Hey, i got up for amrit vela...felt a bit tired..tea helped a little, but i managed to read japji sahib with no disturbance, but when i closed my eyes and did quiet simran, all i thought about was how i can get that payrise"

"Hey, its ok, money plays on all our minds, don;t worry...at least you can see how you mind is working...the things that are bothering you...upsetting you...mind doesn't want you thinking of God...keep at it...don't let these wayward thoughts stop you."

"did you find japping gurmanter helped, or saying it quietly in mind..."


This would be immense...practical talk whilst walking the path forward...trying things, pulling each other up....no rights, no wrongs..

rather than always "your right, you're wrong" "you aint sikh" "you're spot on, this is the way not what the other person said"


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## spnadmin (May 20, 2013)

chazSingh ji

I am left with only more questions. When people post their experiences, and others reply, are we not then reading "opinions, opinions" and more opinions? Which brings me to the next question. Are we seeking support from outside instead of from within? Whenever I read threads on spiritual practice here and on other forums it all seems like an advice column, which at times evolves into a rebuke column about who has the "right" attitude and who has the "wrong approach." 

I just need more understanding of how our members see benefit from an "a-thon" in Sikhi. The 1 million Japji's, or hours of group recitation of Waheguru, or non-stop Sukhmani Sahib are all experiments in this direction. When sangat participates in this way, does "gyan" result? Or are we parroting together?  Or does the satisfaction come from saying, "I did it." "Are you going to do it?" "We did it." The focus, I repeat myself on the "it."

Just thinking outloud.


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## Tejwant Singh (May 20, 2013)

The true Amrit Vela and Simran are in the Works, in the Deeds, not in parroting something mindlessly.

Let's start with one good deed a day to a stranger and start multiplying that according to our own desire and quest. This is the true Amrit Vela and Simran according to Sikhi.

Sikhi prohibits 30 day, 40 day (chiliea) or any kind of numerical mechanical ritual which brings nothing but inflates our own ego and is full of Me-ism. Sikhi calls it Pakhand, a show off.

Lastly, Sikhi is a journey of the individual hence it demands from each of us to do our utmost to become better people than delving into some useless parroting rituals.

Let's make a Better- thon our second nature.

Tejwant Singh


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## chazSingh (May 20, 2013)

> I am left with only more questions. When people post their experiences, and others reply, are we not then reading "opinions, opinions" and more opinions?


just trying to create a shift from "in my opinion" to "i *tried* this and ... "
Changing discussion from "i believe\think this is the correct way" to "for me this seemed to work..try it if you want to"

of course there will still be people giving opinions....but a thread of suggestions based on actual pratical experience is sometimes needed...

i see a big difference in opinions to positive suggestions and inspiration.




> Which brings me to the next question. Are we seeking support from outside instead of from within?


I would hope both...uplifting sangat in a practical sense focussing on positives and no judging...and the inner aspect which guru ji says will blossom also.



> Whenever I read threads on spiritual practice here and on other forums it all seems like an advice column, which at times evolves into a rebuke column about who has the "right" attitude and who has the "wrong approach."


Doesn't matter does it...nothing gets done in life looking at how it worked for others...God works in the Sat Sangat...people who are genuinely making effort...*hints, tips, encouragement rolls off the tongues of the mouths of people in the Sat Sangat, *when genuine seeking is taking place both intellectually and on a practical sense. God is there 

 


> I just need more understanding of how our members see benefit from an "a-thon" in Sikhi. The 1 million Japji's, or hours of group recitation of Waheguru, or non-stop Sukhmani Sahib are all experiments in this direction. When sangat participates in this way, does "gyan" result? Or are we parroting together?  Or does the satisfaction come from saying, "I did it." "Are you going to do it?" "We did it." The focus, I repeat myself on the "it."
> Just thinking outloud


It was just an idea to start getting some readers (if only for a single thread) including myself to switch to lets do attitude and lets uplift each other for something that has been given utmost importance by Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

Forum of opinions/beliefs will continue as still has many merits...just thought something different was required...

making a conscious effort to do Amrit Vela in this way (many months ago) helped me, inspired some family members and friends and thankfully we still continue today...maybe others can be inspired in the same way

to move from the *"i might try this one day"* to a *sudden spontaneous* *"hey, if you're starting, i'll start with you..."* *"lets start today, why wait"
*


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## chazSingh (May 20, 2013)

> The true Amrit Vela and Simran are in the Works, in the Deeds, not in parroting something mindlessly.



Is this a judgement that everyone is parroting something mindlessly? unless you live through everyones being, how can you make such a judgement?




> Let's start with one good deed a day to a stranger and start multiplying that according to our own desire and quest. This is the true Amrit Vela and Simran according to Sikhi.



Yesss, this is beautiful 




> Sikhi prohibits 30 day, 40 day (chiliea) or any kind of numerical mechanical ritual which brings nothing but inflates our own ego and is full of Me-ism. Sikhi calls it Pakhand, a show off.



Take my '30 Day' subject line out...Does sikhi prohibit uplifting others in a practical sense...helping another sangat member, walking forward together without judging another own experience?

regarding the ego comment, i don't think you can make comments on why people do things...they can be out of love...and not ego inflating 





> Lastly, Sikhi is a journey of the individual hence it demands from each of us to do our utmost to become better people than delving into some useless parroting rituals.



I agree ji, no one has said otherwise...you are just flowing on assumptions which i don't know how you have come to??

Let people make their own minds about what is useless by 'TRYING' and experiencing the journey...rather than telling them what is useless and what isn't.....inspire


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## Harry Haller (May 20, 2013)

fine, I have tried just about every method of getting high in my misspent youth, so lets me and you do it tommorow, it will be a useful excercise, if I can read Palaingthaji's book, I am sure I can get up at silly o clock so I can see what all the fuss is about . 

What time do I have to get up, and what do I have to do


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## chazSingh (May 20, 2013)

harry haller said:


> fine, I have tried just about every method of getting high in my misspent youth, so lets me and you do it tommorow, it will be a useful excercise, if I can read Palaingthaji's book, I am sure I can get up at silly o clock so I can see what all the fuss is about .
> 
> What time do I have to get up, and what do I have to do




now that's the spirit!! 

didn't realise a simple thread to try and get some (not all - as not everyone agrees - but anyone that wants to try at least- using a method they see fit for themselves) - and the negativity and "What's right" views that come 

God bless you Harry Ji .... you've made me smile!

try it...even just the battle to fight the mind that says "oh sod this, i'm staying in bed" is the battle with the mind thta guru ji talk about 

right so that's 2 of us.... Not enough yet to form the 'A' Team (Amrit Vela Team) ...

bad joke...i know.


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## spnadmin (May 20, 2013)

I have an idea that might satisfy all points of view.

chazSingh ji 

First my comments, in combination with those of Gyani ji and Tejwant Singh ji, cover a wide range of  concerns about "a-thons" in Sikhi. I might add that "thons" are usually associated with fund-raisers or with working up mass enthusiasm for a cause. Amrit vela is about neither. The other aspect of this is in the title, "who's in?" That part reminds me of how we invite people to a "pick up" game of football, or even a sports pool.

On the other hand -- some members may be motivated in their spiritual discipline if they are part of a group and can share experiences.

I recommend that SPN members who wish to participate contact you by private message. You can start an amrit vela blog in our Member Blogs section. When members contact you then you can direct them to the blog link where they would want to go. The blog would operate like a private group of like-minded participants. It would allow you to keep conversations on topic the way you envision the experience should be. As long as Terms of Service are not violated moderation is minimal.

I strongly urge this be the direction you take.


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## Harry Haller (May 20, 2013)

I am already thinking sod this I want to stay in bed, and I am not doing it for God, I am doing it for you, just give me dates and times, and even if it is the two of us, lets give it a bash


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## chazSingh (May 20, 2013)

harry haller said:


> fine, I have tried just about every method of getting high in my misspent youth, so lets me and you do it tommorow, it will be a useful excercise, if I can read Palaingthaji's book, I am sure I can get up at silly o clock so I can see what all the fuss is about .
> 
> What time do I have to get up, and what do I have to do




woops missed your questions at the bottom.

Urrrm...

Ji, what time, and what you want to do is up to you...
do some before bed... maybe 3-4 hours into the night...before sunrise...first thing in morning perhaps..

for me the hours between 2 and 6 have always been 'different'...the atmosphere in the air

have a cup of tea...wake up a little...wash your face...
put on some soothing kirtan...maybe some snatam kaur on your mp3...listen to japji

spend some time, eyes closed, maybe "waheguru" in mind as you breathe...

aknowledge the god within you (if you really do feel He is there) ... just say "it's just me and you...lets have some chilled time together"... contemplate

if the mind starts chattering about money, sex, family problems..just smile...let the thought pass, then continue.

This is just how i sometimes start amrit vela...it's up to you to be honest.
no rights, no wrongs...just try a method that maybe someone else has mentioned or you've read about.


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## spnadmin (May 20, 2013)

I was not making a passing observation. My recommendation to start this in the Member Blogs was in earnest. Otherwise, heavy moderation will be part of the amrit vela experience in a public thread.


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## Harry Haller (May 20, 2013)

see you on your blog chazji


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## chazSingh (May 20, 2013)

> First my comments, in combination with those of Gyani ji and Tejwant Singh ji, cover a wide range of  concerns about "a-thons" in Sikhi. I might add that "thons" are usually associated with fund-raisers or with working up mass enthusiasm for a cause. Amrit vela is about neither. The other aspect of this is in the title, "who's in?" That part reminds me of how we invite people to a "pick up" game of football, or even a sports pool.



you can take the 30 days off...and the 'who's  in'...it was only to denote a 'get up and lets try' attitude to the  title...feels like every word has been dissected and exploded somehow   and the message behind the thread completely missed...I didn't say  anything along the lines of lets do 30 days and your worries will  disappear...or god will appear before you.

I will start a new thread with a more appropriate title




> On the other hand -- some members may be motivated in their spiritual discipline if they are part of a group and can share experiences.



Meaning of Sangat surely 



> I recommend that SPN members who wish to participate contact you by private message. You can start an amrit vela blog in our Member Blogs section. When members contact you then you can direct them to the blog link where they would want to go. The blog would operate like a private group of like-minded participants. It would allow you to keep conversations on topic the way you envision the experience should be. As long as Terms of Service are not violated moderation is minimal.



Would need some help with this...

but it feels wrong to move things 'behind closed doors' based on a title which wasn't meant to be taken in the way that some of you have taken it....will be more clearer in the future.


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## chazSingh (May 20, 2013)

harry haller said:


> see you on your blog chazji



yup, once i figure out how to start it up 


SPNadmin Ji, please close the thread.


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## spnadmin (May 20, 2013)

chazSingh said:


> you can take the 30 days off...and the 'who's  in'...it was only to denote a 'get up and lets try' attitude to the  title...feels like every word has been dissected and exploded somehow   and the message behind the thread completely missed...I didn't say  anything along the lines of lets do 30 days and your worries will  disappear...or god will appear before you.
> 
> I will start a new thread with a more appropriate title
> 
> ...




chazSingh ji

I will leave the thread open so that members who are interested know to contact you.

Member Blogs are not "behind closed doors." The tab is visible on the home page. The only difference is that non-members cannot see the blog. Anyone who is signed in can see the Blog tab and they can click on it and participate.

There are several advantages to using the Blog section. 

Moderation is light; therefore, if someone want to quote a single tuk, there won't be interference with cautions to post an entire shabad, or to correct an incorrect interpretation. All that does is throw a damp rag over a conversation which does not need to occur. 

You are the blog owner; therefore you control what is said. Anything that is critical, negative, or off-topic can be deleted by you.

I think the blog is the best way to keep the motivation on-going. I will send you instructions on how to start a blog, and Harry ji also can be of help with that.

SPN members who are interested should contact chazSingh through private message.


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## chazSingh (May 20, 2013)

spnadmin said:


> chazSingh ji
> 
> I will leave the thread open so that members who are interested know to contact you.
> 
> ...




aahhhh..that sounds perfect...

Thanks for that...

God Bless Ji


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## spnadmin (May 20, 2013)

chazSingh said:


> aahhhh..that sounds perfect...
> 
> Thanks for that...
> 
> God Bless Ji



Sent you a private message with instructions. 

p/s You can also invite people by private message. You don't have to wait to see if anyone reading the thread 3 years from now wants to sign up. That would move things along.

another p/s You would be surprised how many members actually read the blogs for enjoyment even when they do not post.


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## findingmyway (May 20, 2013)

chazSingh said:


> Maybe just maybe there is one reader out there that gets inspired.
> 
> Maybe i'm going about it in the wrong way....if you think of a more productive way, please put some ideas forward. otherwise all we're left again with is more opinion opinion opinions...when all that Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji says is:



*A better way of connecting to Ik Oankaar is surely to understand and follow Gurbani? Why not set up local Gurbani groups? Understand together what is being said in SGGS and how you can apply this in your life in the long and short term.*




> faer k agai rakheeai jith dhisai dharabaar ||
> So what offering can we place before Him, by which we might see the Darbaar of His Court?
> 
> muha k bolan boleeai jith sun dhharae piaar ||
> ...



What point is being made here? Amritvela is not restricted to a specific time but should be all the time. For many, the mentality of I've done my puja now, thats enough prevails so this approach may do harm. If it works for you great, but it is not what Guru ji instructs us to do. Also the ambrosial hours before dawn is an incorrect translation.

Here's a shabad related to "a-thons". Please share your understanding. Ang 217. Only literal translation posted here.

ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ Raag Gourree Maajh Mehalaa 5


ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ Ik Oankaar Sathigur Prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:


ਤੂੰ ਮੇਰਾ ਬਹੁ ਮਾਣੁ ਕਰਤੇ ਤੂੰ ਮੇਰਾ ਬਹੁ ਮਾਣੁ ॥ Thoon Maeraa Bahu Maan Karathae Thoon Maeraa Bahu Maan ||
I am so proud of You, O Creator; I am so proud of You.


ਜੋਰਿ ਤੁਮਾਰੈ ਸੁਖਿ ਵਸਾ ਸਚੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Jor Thumaarai Sukh Vasaa Sach Sabadh Neesaan ||1|| Rehaao ||
Through Your Almighty Power, I dwell in peace. The True Word of the Shabad is my banner and insignia. ||1||Pause||


ਸਭੇ ਗਲਾ ਜਾਤੀਆ ਸੁਣਿ ਕੈ ਚੁਪ ਕੀਆ ॥ Sabhae Galaa Jaatheeaa Sun Kai Chup Keeaa ||
He hears and knows everything, but he keeps silent.


ਕਦ ਹੀ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਨ ਲਧੀਆ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੜਿਆ ॥੧॥ Kadh Hee Surath N Ladhheeaa Maaeiaa Moharriaa ||1||
Bewitched by Maya, he never regains awareness. ||1||


ਦੇਇ ਬੁਝਾਰਤ ਸਾਰਤਾ ਸੇ ਅਖੀ ਡਿਠੜਿਆ ॥ Dhaee Bujhaarath Saarathaa Sae Akhee Dditharriaa ||

The riddles and hints are given, and he sees them with his eyes.


ਕੋਈ ਜਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਲੋਭੀਆ ਮੂਲਿ ਨ ਸੁਣੀ ਕਹਿਆ ॥੨॥ Koee J Moorakh Lobheeaa Mool N Sunee Kehiaa ||2||
But he is foolish and greedy, and he never listens to what he is told. ||2||


ਇਕਸੁ ਦੁਹੁ ਚਹੁ ਕਿਆ ਗਣੀ ਸਭ ਇਕਤੁ ਸਾਦਿ ਮੁਠੀ ॥ Eikas Dhuhu Chahu Kiaa Ganee Sabh Eikath Saadh Muthee ||
Why bother to count one, two, three, four? The whole world is defrauded by the same enticements.


ਇਕੁ ਅਧੁ ਨਾਇ ਰਸੀਅੜਾ ਕਾ ਵਿਰਲੀ ਜਾਇ ਵੁਠੀ ॥੩॥ Eik Adhh Naae Raseearraa Kaa Viralee Jaae Vuthee ||3||
Hardly anyone loves the Lord's Name; how rare is that place which is in bloom. ||3||


ਭਗਤ ਸਚੇ ਦਰਿ ਸੋਹਦੇ ਅਨਦ ਕਰਹਿ ਦਿਨ ਰਾਤਿ ॥ Bhagath Sachae Dhar Sohadhae Anadh Karehi Dhin Raath |
The devotees look beautiful in the True Court; night and day, they are happy.


ਰੰਗਿ ਰਤੇ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੈ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਨ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਤ ॥੪॥੧॥੧੬੯॥ Rang Rathae Paramaesarai Jan Naanak Thin Bal Jaath ||4||1||169||
They are imbued with the Love of the Transcendent Lord; servant Nanak is a sacrifice to them. ||4||1||169||


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## Luckysingh (May 20, 2013)

Amrit vela can be anytime you make it, but for most of us it is before sunrise(2am to 6am) !!!!!
*WHY ????*
I haven't got a clue, but if you try to meditate at this magic time compared to midday or late afternoon, then you shall notice the difference!!
Therefore, you will tell yourself, that this is what the 'amrit vela must be about'!!

The way I see it, is that you are supposed to do your nitnem DAILY, now that means banis when you rise and before you retire. 
*WHY ???*
Because EVERYDAY within a 24 hour period we wake and sleep, no one goes a natural 72 hours and sleeps whenever they can !!!
The body tells us when we are tired and when we need to sleep.
Therefore, nitnem is incorporated into your everyday DAILY routine as part of Sikh discipline.
SO I see nothing wrong with incorporating meditation and simran time to WASH your mind of the daily accumulation of filth every day.
It just happens to be that the biological clock of the mind and body seems to respond and give more connection and anand at this time before sunrise !!
I still can't explain why, but I was disappointed this morning(I got up late!!)after 6am as I couldn't get the same anand because it was a little too noisy, bright and the atmosphere felt busy outside.
This morning the only lesson I learned and confirmation I got 'AGAIN' was that 'I would have felt better if I had got up earlier"

You can only understand if you try it with TRUE intentions.
I too, used to laugh at the discipline of nitnem and amrit vela, saying that it is some mindless ritual,- but know I seem to have a better understanding.

If you all think that I am a mindless lost soul following some Brahminised pandit puja ritual, then be it !!
I don't think Guruji had any problem with that because it is the _''application of the mind''_ that is the ritual. If I were applying empty physical applications like lighting a diva or sitting on a certain mat, then Guruji would have had a problem, since that would be _'mindless'_
Only I can confirm to self what makes me closer and how I feel the bliss of the Lord.

I am not a Sikh with khes trying to connect and find myself with creator. But I am loser that felt a connection(via meditation) and is now keeping a khes and becoming a Sikh.


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## chazSingh (May 20, 2013)

> *A better way of connecting to Ik Oankaar is surely to understand and follow Gurbani? Why not set up local Gurbani groups? Understand together what is being said in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and how you can apply this in your life in the long and short term.*


 
I agree, but Gurbani came from beyond the mind...the mind cannot comprehend it all nor understand it. one has to eventually climb mount Everest to experience the climb. I think we agree there...it's just the methods we seem to disagree...

But in this thread I clearly stated at the start to *implement your own view* of amrit vela ... but everyone seems have to have responded in a reflex action i.e. parroting, mindless rituals etc etc 




> What point is being made here? Amritvela is not restricted to a specific time but should be all the time. For many, the mentality of I've done my puja now, thats enough prevails so this approach may do harm. If it works for you great, but it is not what Guru ji instructs us to do. Also the ambrosial hours before dawn is an incorrect translation.


 
you're just assuming that everyone is just mindlessly dong things...and get no results, and just assume that they think they've done their bit...

not everyone does that.

Yes Amrit Vela is anytime...especially when gurbani describes the state of highly spiritual souls...but for the rest of us...well for me anyway the morning hours are something else...I cannot describe it.

Anyhow...if for the 99.9% of the population who are engulfed in ego, anger, desire, greed and attachment, Guru Ji obviously felt the need to assign a name or label to such a time...otherwise why would you need to describe it?

it's like saying "the best time to meditate is in the daylight" when all that exists is the daylight 24 hours a day?


Here's a shabad related to "a-thons". Please share your understanding. Ang 217. Only literal translation posted here.

ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ Raag Gourree Maajh Mehalaa 5


ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ Ik Oankaar Sathigur Prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:


ਤੂੰ ਮੇਰਾ ਬਹੁ ਮਾਣੁ ਕਰਤੇ ਤੂੰ ਮੇਰਾ ਬਹੁ ਮਾਣੁ ॥ Thoon Maeraa Bahu Maan Karathae Thoon Maeraa Bahu Maan ||
I am so proud of You, O Creator; I am so proud of You.


ਜੋਰਿ ਤੁਮਾਰੈ ਸੁਖਿ ਵਸਾ ਸਚੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Jor Thumaarai Sukh Vasaa Sach Sabadh Neesaan ||1|| Rehaao ||
Through Your Almighty Power, I dwell in peace. The True Word of the Shabad is my banner and insignia. ||1||Pause||


ਸਭੇ ਗਲਾ ਜਾਤੀਆ ਸੁਣਿ ਕੈ ਚੁਪ ਕੀਆ ॥ Sabhae Galaa Jaatheeaa Sun Kai Chup Keeaa ||
He hears and knows everything, but he keeps silent.


ਕਦ ਹੀ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਨ ਲਧੀਆ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੜਿਆ ॥੧॥ Kadh Hee Surath N Ladhheeaa Maaeiaa Moharriaa ||1||
Bewitched by Maya, he never regains awareness. ||1||


ਦੇਇ ਬੁਝਾਰਤ ਸਾਰਤਾ ਸੇ ਅਖੀ ਡਿਠੜਿਆ ॥ Dhaee Bujhaarath Saarathaa Sae Akhee Dditharriaa ||

The riddles and hints are given, and he sees them with his eyes.


ਕੋਈ ਜਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਲੋਭੀਆ ਮੂਲਿ ਨ ਸੁਣੀ ਕਹਿਆ ॥੨॥ Koee J Moorakh Lobheeaa Mool N Sunee Kehiaa ||2||
But he is foolish and greedy, and he never listens to what he is told. ||2||


ਇਕਸੁ ਦੁਹੁ ਚਹੁ ਕਿਆ ਗਣੀ ਸਭ ਇਕਤੁ ਸਾਦਿ ਮੁਠੀ ॥ Eikas Dhuhu Chahu Kiaa Ganee Sabh Eikath Saadh Muthee ||
Why bother to count one, two, three, four? The whole world is defrauded by the same enticements.


ਇਕੁ ਅਧੁ ਨਾਇ ਰਸੀਅੜਾ ਕਾ ਵਿਰਲੀ ਜਾਇ ਵੁਠੀ ॥੩॥ Eik Adhh Naae Raseearraa Kaa Viralee Jaae Vuthee ||3||
Hardly anyone loves the Lord's Name; how rare is that place which is in bloom. ||3||


ਭਗਤ ਸਚੇ ਦਰਿ ਸੋਹਦੇ ਅਨਦ ਕਰਹਿ ਦਿਨ ਰਾਤਿ ॥ Bhagath Sachae Dhar Sohadhae Anadh Karehi Dhin Raath |
The devotees look beautiful in the True Court; night and day, they are happy.


ਰੰਗਿ ਰਤੇ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੈ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਨ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਤ ॥੪॥੧॥੧੬੯॥ Rang Rathae Paramaesarai Jan Naanak Thin Bal Jaath ||4||1||169||
They are imbued with the Love of the Transcendent Lord; servant Nanak is a sacrifice to them. ||4||1||169||[/QUOTE]

For me anyway this describes the state of highly spiritual souls who have become one with god...Gurbani clearly describes stages of the evolution of the soul from being ego conscious and ingulfed in duality ... to a soul that have lifted the veil and realised absolute reality, the true self.


one the 'a' thon statement....I agree...it wasn't meant to be a 30 day 'Fix' it for people...it was just to see if there were any readers who have been wanting to do Amrit Vela and I thought maybe we can take the journey together for a short while...as I feel a true Sangat should be all about.

but of course the journey is a lifetime  ... we all know that


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## chazSingh (May 20, 2013)

Luckysingh said:


> Amrit vela can be anytime you make it, but for most of us it is before sunrise(2am to 6am) !!!!!
> *WHY ????*
> I haven't got a clue, but if you try to meditate at this magic time compared to midday or late afternoon, then you shall notice the difference!!
> Therefore, you will tell yourself, that this is what the 'amrit vela must be about'!!
> ...


 
It is because I read posts like this that I tried to maybe inspire others to try Amrit vela...be it anytime.

I can't explain it either, but I get the same feeling when I sleep through and wake up late. I can sit for 2-3 hours doing Simran through the day and its amazing...During the early hours, time just doesn't have the same impact on the mind...the experience is more intense.

i'm sure highly blessed Gursikhs are in a state of anand 24/7 ... a state of Simran 24 hours a day..Gurbani describes this.

for the rest of us fools (me)...It seems Sri Guru Nanak had to define a period / time for the best results .... otherwise why create a term/word for it?

Anyhow God Bless ... and keep inspiring fools like me.


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## spnadmin (May 20, 2013)

if you are going to participate in the Amrit Vel a thon, please plan to post your comments on the blog that chazSingh is going to create. Please contact him by private message to be part of the discussion.


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## spnadmin (May 20, 2013)

*Amrit Vela on moon? Only once a month?
*

It seems the creator of the babiha blog is part of a Gurbani discussion group as suggested by findingmyway ji!

http://babiha.blogspot.com/2008/07/amrit-vela-on-moon-only-once-month.html



> Last friday 27th June 2008, we discussed 6th Pauree of Maajh ki Vaar, in which there was a mention of special techniques, auspicious Dates and times to do special tasks/ prayers etc people do to recite LORD's name. As usual, I raised a query that the usual conception of "Meditating and sitting before dawn and chanting GOD's physical(?) name" would also be called under the same technique, and doing special task at special time??
> 
> You would have got the word by now "Amrit Vela"
> 
> ...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (May 20, 2013)

Islam has the AZAN..which is essentially..Hey get up...its time...collective wakening..and maybe soemone who slept through will feel..Oh i slept through yesterday..maybe i will get up today...kind of what the Thon thingy...

Well in GURMATT its not that way. There are No Azans, public calls to wake up..and no Thons...its One to One...

A Good student studies daily...and there is no need for the teachers to organize...a THON-o-Study for 30 days before the EXAM...a Good Sikh is a Good STUDENT...not the type to wait for Thons or last minute exam cramming sessions or PUBLIC CALLS to study   ..???


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## Ishna (May 20, 2013)

Gyani ji

How do you place the SRM's instruction to rise in the morning before the sun?



> *Meditating on Nam (Divine Substance) and Scriptures*
> *Article IV *
> 1. A Sikh should wake up in the ambrosial hours (three hours before the dawn), take bath and, concentrating his/her thoughts on One Immortal Being, repeat the name Waheguru (Wondrous Destroyer of darkness).


 
http://sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_one.html

Regardless of how we feel about it, the SGPC instructs Sikhs to do it.

Thanks

EDIT:  I'd also be interested to know what the Punjabi says.  Does it just say 'amrit vela' or does it say the rest (three hours before the dawn)?  Many thanks


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## Harry Haller (May 21, 2013)

Chazji

I am afraid I have let you down, I failed miserably. 

I woke up at 3.30, seemed like a good time and within the range specified. My wife was still sleeping, I gazed at her face for a while, she still is the most beautiful woman I have ever laid eyes on, it made me happy to look at her, Dan, my dog, sensing I was awake, came over for a cuddle, at which point the cat, jumped on the bed for a stroke. 

Reluctant as I was to leave this perfect scene, I got up and had a wash, and went to my office downstairs, well, I call it an office, it has a computer in it that does not work, and lots of old stock, I passed the puppies room and could not resist going in to say hello, they jumped up and kissed me, I nuzzled them both, and then sat in my office. 

Ok, here goes, I did as you said, I blocked out all thoughts and just concentrated on God, but I could not, my mind was racing through all the issues of the day, the laptop that would not take the graphics driver, the sony that I had been sent the wrong keyboard, Sians cars MOT, Rory the puppy's bad nature, how sweet little Bran puppy is, but I persevered, and tried to forget all these things and focus on God, I am afraid after ten minutes, maybe I did not give it enough time, I started trying to solve my problems using only the truth as a guide, what would Guruji do in my place, how would he solve them, instead I started to plan the day, how could I live today in the spirit of Bani, what facets could I take on to assist me that were Sikh like, it felt lonely downstairs, feeling a complete let down, I trudged back upstairs, let the puppies out on the way, and we all sat on the bed, everyone dozing, I sat up and surveyed the scene, 3 dogs all half asleep, Rory with one eye open looking full of mischief, Virgil the cat licking Dans head, they were all positioned around Sian, who in the middle of all this looked so peaceful and in bliss, I finished off my plans for the day in bed and eventually fell asleep in the middle, 

Sorry friend, I did try............


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (May 21, 2013)

Ishna said:


> Gyani ji
> 
> How do you place the SRM's instruction to rise in the morning before the sun?
> 
> ...




we have copy of SRM here - pdf format   
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-...nload-sikh-rehat-maryada-punjabi-english.html

it does say AMRIT VELA and in brackets ( Last Quarter of Night).
BUT this definition of AMRIT VELA is NOT as per SGGS. No where in SGGS is it said that a certain fixed time/hour is Amrit Vela..

And by the way i myself get up daily at 2.30 am for my bath, parkash of sggs, daily paath of five Banis etc. Practically its the BEST time as its quiet and peaceful.   BUT I NEVER ENFORCE this on others by QUALIFYING IT as SGGS instruction/order/command etc. ITS NOT so. Its a Personal decision.


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## Ishna (May 21, 2013)

Thank you very much Gyani ji. Your answer is very comprehensive and helpful to me.


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## chazSingh (May 21, 2013)

harry haller said:


> Chazji
> 
> I am afraid I have let you down, I failed miserably.
> 
> ...



Satnaam Harry Ji my friend.

You did one better than me...i awoke at 4am, and my mind got the better of me and i fell asleep to my excuses...

if nothing else, at least you were aware that even in the silence of the night the mind keeps going and going .... when does a person ever get to just 'be' and not have some moments where these thoughts aren't burdening us?

you got up, you contemplated as much as you could...and now you're aware of a time in the night when you can have a bit of silence whenever you need it.

god bless ji, and thanks for giving it a go... don't give up on it though


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## chazSingh (May 21, 2013)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> we have copy of SRM here - pdf format
> http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-...nload-sikh-rehat-maryada-punjabi-english.html
> 
> it does say AMRIT VELA and in brackets ( Last Quarter of Night).
> ...




I dont't think anyone in this discussion has stated that it is the *'only'* time to do you bani, simran, meditation? Most of the discussion seems to be on personal experience and to be pro-active and try it at various times and see how you feel.

In the above responses, people have stated they have tried simran, bani etc at various times of the day (because god is with us always and in all directions), but they have found certain times to be a little more connective, a little more something than at other times..

and that's exactly what you've stated ji 

It's the same with me... On saturday i did simran at a quiet moment during the day at the Gurdwara. It was beautiful...an hour of me and Guru Time.

Sunday night i did my Simran between 2am and 5am - again it was beautiful - but at this stage of my bandgi, this particular time i feel almost physically and spiritually more connected to god 'within' because i'm a little more able to shut out the outside world and it's worries.

The purpose  of this thread was just to get people thinking, "maybe i can with the support of others in the sangat also start to do a daily nitnem, simran, meditation" and to discuss the* initial journey with each other *and form a good foundation to then continue for the rest of our lives...many are already doing this...but just for the few that are probably sitting on the fence (as i was once)


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## chazSingh (May 21, 2013)

For everyone ji,

I will create a blog today.

there are already threads about the discussion of Amrit Vela and related topics...i wish not to start another here.

God Bless everyone ji


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## japjisahib04 (May 21, 2013)

chazSingh said:


> initially everything starts off with goals, something to work towards, a finish line of some sorts...
> 
> Maybe i'm going about it in the wrong way....if you think of a more productive way, please put some ideas forward. otherwise all we're left again with is more opinion opinion opinions...when all that Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji says is:
> 
> ...



On another thread I was trying to decode the meaning of above pauree. The traditional understandings of this pauree was what should I offer to see His darbar? Very few people know the meaning of darbar and why word darbar is written.. Since God is all over, does it mean He has left His darbar somewhere in seventh sky for us to search? As a result of this you go to any gurdwara and see various offerings like, fruit, sweets, rumalas and money etc. I don't mind when all these things are offered but only to serve the devotees/guests and not taken as offerings to akal purakh. We have built a gap between offerings to sangat and akal purakh and thus forget the real message. Until I realized what is mine and what is the stumbling block between me and creator? It is my ego. And Guru sahib in continuance to the first question is asking me now to 'phair' shift your paradigm(from manh ki matt to Guru ki matt) and surrender your ego to inculcate the divine philosophy of gurbani. To live as per the essence of gurbani is called surrender and this is the foremost condition. 

By simply speaking something can one obtain His love? No - Gurmat does not teach these short-cut hypocrate mantars? If it was true then guru sahib wouldn;t have said, 'jin manh hor mukh hor si kandai kachia - are false. It is to manifest sweet nature, infinite expression of love, action from inner voice which obtains oneness and love of God, and 'amrit vela sach nao  - and that state of mind is true 'amrit vela - the ultimate truth where one understand the game of vikars and its effect on our body. Thereafter with nectar of baani, one does not die spirituaslly and lives for ever.  When I am full of love, humble and soft spoken - off course with innovative mind, it is the expression and language of God. As per my understanding, 'by living like this whole of my life will be amrit velya.

Let us make our life worth by inventing something new for the betterment of humanity as 'avar kaaj tere kitai n kaam none of these rituals are worth anything, 'mil sadhsanghat - over here sadhsanghat is not number of people but our beautiful body thus keep all your body parts fit and bhaj keval naam - invent something new for the betterment of humanity and aapsi bhaichara by contemplating on the divine message.

best regards
sahni


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (May 21, 2013)

JapjiSahib04 Ji..
Guru Ji keeps on telling us about How Hugely INVALUABLE and PRICELESS our Body is..devtas run after it..its the HARMANDAR that har sajjiah..its the VEHICLE of attaining His Mokh duaar..etc etc etc..and Guru ji details how empty rituals fasts, torturing teh body via kneeling on stones,  bleeding knees on steps, one arm up in the air dhoonees etc etc etc all DONT MAKE HIM the least bit happy...rituals of mumbling his so called "name" as Mantar etc.
If we just read and UNDERSTAND Guru Amardass jis shabads on Harmandar..eh sareera meriah we can get so much..BUT Alas..we keep on FALLING DOWN into the HELL HOLE Guru ji dragged us out of over  a period of 250 YEARS.....we fall abck on chanting meaningless mantars names. we fast..we bathe at teeraths..we hold paths..we hold ardasses, we pay for kirtan darbars..we do EVERYTHING..except what GURU JI ASKS US...

WE SIKHS are the MOST UNFORTUNATE people on earth..we got such a Good Master who told us all thes ecrets..but we prefer to close our eyes and minds and chase useless dreams..smoke screens...dhundh...foggyness to sunlight of GYAAN... so sad...

Thanks again for the wonderful meaning of SAADH SANGAT...i fully agree.


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## spnadmin (May 21, 2013)

chazSingh said:


> For everyone ji,
> 
> I will create a blog today.
> 
> ...



Thank you jio!


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## chazSingh (May 21, 2013)

> By simply speaking something can one obtain His love? No - Gurmat does not teach these short-cut hypocrate mantars?



You are correct ji, by simply speaking we connot invoke His love...
BUT, you are assuming that anyone who sits, meditates, and does simran using shabads from Gurbani or the Gurmanter Waheguru *is just merely speaking. 

*This is where assumption is dangerous.

I do not think for the many that are doing their simran in this way that it is a hypocrate short cut.

If i close my eyes and use shabad's that are the physical manifestation of the Shabad that flows through whole of creation..these are not just mere words, they are vibrations from the *Source

Powered *by a love so deep, and a *Thirst *so strong, if mediated upon will *assist* in taking ones Dhiaan / attention to their own conscious existance within themselves. I say 'Assist' because it is one element in the tools that we use..not the only element

If you believe in it, your inner Shabad Guru will walk a thousand steps to greet you...

This is just from my experience, nothing more....your journey is unique in itself and is correct for you .. but it's not right that you should judge others actions if you haven't experienced 'exactly' what those actions are, and the feelings behind them.



> Let us make our life worth by inventing something new for the betterment of humanity as 'avar kaaj tere kitai n kaam none of these rituals are worth anything, 'mil sadhsanghat - over here sadhsanghat is not number of people but our beautiful body thus keep all your body parts fit and bhaj keval naam - invent something new for the betterment of humanity and aapsi bhaichara by contemplating on the divine message.



I couldn't agree more...

But, Gurbani also makes it clear that this world is temporary, forever changing, and comes to an end.

so we must also look to take the journey 'within' to seek the part of us that is not temporary

The part of us that is FOREVER existing and the ultimate truth.

again, just my current thoughts and understanding ji...nothing more.


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## chazSingh (May 21, 2013)

Blog has been created.

Link is:
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/blogs/chazsingh/8301-daily-amrit-vela-blog-difficulties-joys.html

for anyone that wants to discuss this topic and share their practical experiences.

God Bless all


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## spnadmin (May 21, 2013)

Thanks so much chazSingh ji!

I want to remind everyone that you can still discuss "amrit vela" on this thread.  If you want to be part of the 30-day amrit vela experience and want to share you personal experiences, please go to the blog http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/blogs/chazsingh/8301-daily-amrit-vela-blog-difficulties-joys.html

The thread title has been changed to introduce the new blog and reflect changes in the direction of the thread you are now reading.

Thanks to all.


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## japjisahib04 (May 21, 2013)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> JapjiSahib04 Ji..
> Thanks again for the wonderful meaning of SAADH SANGAT...i fully agree.


 Giani Jio 

I can never imagine that guru sahib is recommending us sadhsanghat of dera culture, dhadheriawale, Guru Iqbal Singh or sadh sanghat of Iqbal Singh of Patna Takhat waleh. We must be careful while interpreting and understanding gurbani. We are recommending and talking of meditating on one word whereas gurbani even rejects, ' ਪਾਠੁ ਪੜਿਓ ਅਰੁ ਬੇਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿਓ ਨਿਵਲਿ ਭੁਅੰਗਮ ਸਾਧੇ ॥  ਪੰਚ ਜਨਾ ਸਿਉ ਸੰਗੁ ਨ ਛੁਟਕਿਓ ਅਧਿਕ ਅਹੰਬੁਧਿ ਬਾਧੇ ॥੧॥

best regards
sahni


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## findingmyway (May 26, 2013)

I have read so many times on this thread and others recently that the morning hours between 2am and 5am are special, magical and are specifically referred to 'amrit vela'. This is distorting meaning of Gurbani. No specific time is more special than others. If you present bani to the contrary I will be happy to reconsider. The concept of amrit vela is to encourage us to connect to Ik Oankaar all the time so every moment spent with that connection is called amrit vela. Restricting to a specific time is taking us away from that mindset. 

I am not being purposefully argumentative. If anyone finds the morning best, I have great respect for them but putting that across as the best time endorsed by Gurbani is wrong, it should be a personal preference. Guru ji didn't discriminate against night owls so why should we?

Please pay special attention to the points highlighted in purple:
*Life's Extremes: Early Birds vs. Night Owls*

It's 6:30 a.m. For "early birds" or "larks," that's prime time. For "night owls," however, such an hour is ungodly.

Most of us are neither pure lark nor owl. But we all know people who  can spring out of bed at the crack of dawn or stay alert well into the  wee hours. In recent years, science has increasingly shown why these  extremes exist. 

*Right from birth, our personal biological clocks are already wound. Genetics establishes a person's "chronotype," which is pegged to when his or her body feels up and at 'em.*

"People span the range of those who are very early risers to very late  setters, and this is genetically determined," said Frederick Brown, a  professor of psychology at Penn State.

To a certain extent, behavior and environment — say, routinely pumping  iron in a well-lit gym toward midnight — can shift our built-in  predispositions. But for those of us squarely in one chronotype camp or  the other, in the end, the body is the boss.

*"If you're a morning-type person, you can't become an evening type, and vice versa," said Brown. *

*Internal clock*
The underlying mechanism for our patterns of shut-eye is called a  circadian rhythm. This 24-hour cycle of waxing and waning biological  processes is found in almost all forms of life.

In human circadian rhythms, body temperature varies over the course of a  day, usually peaking in the afternoon and bottoming out in the early  morning. Secretions of the hormone melatonin also crest during the  night, for instance. 

The control center for the circadian rhythm involves two groups of  nerve cells, called the suprachiasmatic nuclei (SCN), located in the  mid-brain behind our eyes. "The circadian pacemaker has multiple  projections in the brain affecting endocrine cycles, hormonal cycles —  pretty much everything about your body," said Donna Arand, clinical  director of the Kettering Sleep Disorders Center in Dayton, Ohio.    

The interplay of a myriad of genes controls one's circadian rhythm.  Back in 2003, researchers discovered a major player, called the Period 3  or "clock" gene. *Early birds were more often found to have a longer  version of the gene than night owls. *[Read: Night Owls Stay Alert Longer than Early Birds]

*Dawn or dusk*
Natural variances in the circadian rhythm account for sleep session  biases. About half of the population falls in the middle — neither a  morning nor an evening type, Brown said. These people can adjust more  easily to changes in dozing schedules.

"An intermediate person can, without too much difficulty, get up an  hour or two earlier than usual, and also go to bed an hour or two later  than usual without too much of a problem," Brown told LiveScience.

The remaining half of individuals split evenly into morning or evening  types, though this preference "ranges from mild to extreme," said  Brown. 

Within the owl side of the populace, studies have suggested that around  17 percent of individuals have a clearly "delayed sleep phase," meaning  they get tired later in the day than normal, according to Arand.

*True early birds are a rarer species. Just 1 percent of the general  population has an "advanced sleep phase," Arand said, becoming very  drowsy in the early evening, yet they are bright-eyed and bushy-tailed  well before the sun rises. *

Each sleep-cycle group has a significant age clustering effect. During  high-school and college years, hormonal changes and increased  socialization prompt many adolescents to begin staying up late and sleeping in, Brown said.

Some of the elderly do just the opposite,  partly as a result of less activity and age-related medications that  have a sedative effect, such as those for high blood pressure, Arand  said. 

*Can't change me*
*Despite these drifts in our dozing habits, people's true nature  endures*, Brown said. A large chunk of teenagers are in fact "wannabe  owls," he said, while those with genuine preferences for the dim hours  keep that schedule into old age.  

At the snoozing extremes are those small fractions of people with sleep-phase disorders.  About 0.15 percent have delayed sleep-phase disorder (DSPS), in  whichtheir biological clocks are skewed to sleeping very "late" into the  day, at least by societal norms (Noon, say).

The counterpart to DSPS, advanced sleep-phase disorder (ASPS), affects  an even tinier sliver of the population, but the actual prevalence of  both conditions is thought to be much higher.   

As might be expected, DSPS is far more common in the young and ASPS  more so in the old. Because sunlight exposure cues circadian rhythms,  bright light therapy is often used to help treat both conditions by  resetting a patient's internal clock. 

*Yet Brown and Arand believe that one's unavoidable preference for  morning or evening should not be considered bad or unhealthy.* Society,  they agree, should be more accepting of inherent sleep-and-wake modes,  particularly of night owls, for whom adhering to standard business hours  is arduous.

"We know sleep is not a bad habit," Brown said. "It can't be kicked."

http://www.livescience.com/16334-night-owls-early-birds-sleep-cycles.html


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## Luckysingh (May 26, 2013)

I don't think that anyone is saying that it is magical or heavenly as purely limited within those hours. Although, with most of our lifestyles and schedules it is the most practical time due to it being so quiet and peaceful at that time.
The only inconvenience is the sacrifice of personal sleep that one has to override. But saying this, i think that psychologically one feels that they have made the effort and it gives personal satisfaction as one is able to focus more easily in that time environment since the whole household will be fast asleep !!
That itself is the magical part, purely because of our time schedules !


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## Tejwant Singh (May 27, 2013)

Luckysingh said:


> I don't think that anyone is saying that it is magical or heavenly as purely limited within those hours. Although, with most of our lifestyles and schedules it is the most practical time due to it being so quiet and peaceful at that time.
> *The only inconvenience is the sacrifice of personal sleep that one has to override.* But saying this, i think that psychologically *one feels that they have made the effort and it gives personal satisfaction* as one is able to focus more easily in that time environment since the whole household will be fast asleep !!
> That itself is the magical part, purely because of our time schedules !



Lucky Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Our visionary Gurus never worked against the nature. They rather embraced it. Body clock is one of those parts of nature that can only be fought against when one has to make a living and has no choice, like night shifts, grave yard shifts etc. etc. and if you ask them that they are happy about their routine, the answer will be no for the obvious reasons.

I have no problem with what makes anyone feel good by doing meditation/simran/parroting or whatever one wants to call it in the early hours in the morning. If you feel good about it and can function all day long with your responsibilities and doing everyday seva, it is fine with me. If your body clock only requires 4 hours of sleep, it is OK. But if you get up at certain hours in the morning to do the above and then go off to sleep as many do, I do not find anything positive in it.

For me Simran is doing good which as a result makes one feel good, where as repeating some words just to feel good  which the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru urges us not to,then it seems that we have failed to understand the meaning of Simran, Naam Japnah according to our visionary Gurus.

The same effect of repeating some "magic words" or better can be experienced while gazing at the stars at nights during full Moon or new Moon, sitting on the beach, hiking, running or just being quiet listening to the inner percussion of life.

Gurbani is not a placebo the way we treat it sometimes to be but a true elixir and this elixir is only in the Works by helping others, pitching in the society in a positive manner. A placebo is a self centered practice, not Ik Ong Kaar centered as Gurbani urges us to in my opinion. Gurbani is our tool box that teaches us how to lead our lives in the latter manner.

Many people do several Sehaj Paaths a year for different occasions, do so many Japs as someone told them to which include the Panj Pyaras when someone feels they have come off the path for a while and hence are "ordered" -Tankhah- to do 40 or 50 Sukhmanis, Japs, Dukhbhanjanis etc. etc.

This has nothing to do with Gurmat living but dwelling in dogmatic blind rituals that our Gurus  warn us against through Gurbani. But sadly, we hope for "the miracles" like any other dogmatic people by trodding on the same beaten path of mechanical rituals where many have gone astray before us.  

By the way, the last Sehaj Paath I finished this week took me 3 years, 5 months and 4 days. This is not only due to the skipped days for some unforeseen reasons but because I feel the need to study the same Shabad several times in order to grasp the glimpse of light shone in it through the cracks of my own life. This has been my routine, not to fast forward but to rewind often because this is the only one life we have and we should savour every nanosecond of it.

Enjoy your journey.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## japjisahib04 (May 27, 2013)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Lucky Singh ji,
> 
> For me Simran is doing good which as a result makes one feel good, where as repeating some words just to feel good  which the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru urges us not to,then it seems that we have failed to understand the meaning of Simran, Naam Japnah according to our visionary Gurus.
> 
> ...



First time I learnt the meaning simran was when my father stopped the car on highway and said let us do simran. I was wondering whether he was trying muslim namaz. There was a accident on the other side and the person inside was struggling for life. We swiftly opened the door and the pulled person outside. By this time several people stopped the car and we manage to send him to hospital and saved his life. 

best regards
sahni


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## Harry Haller (May 27, 2013)

friends, 

I personally see this as having very little to do with Sikhi itself per se, I think what Chazji is trying to do is encourage something akin to going to the gym. Let us not get bogged down with whether it is written or not, the guy is just trying to channel some positive energy into something that he believes works. I have my own feelings on the matter, and to be honest, I resonate more with Japhisahib04ji above, but, given all the bad practices and bad thoughts that we all do and think, just taking Sikhism out of it for a minute, waking up early in the morning and doing whatever it is that gives you a connection has got to be better than shooting up, browsing for porn, smoking drugs, etc etc etc, 

I woke up the other morning and just played a few shabads and lost myself in the music, it was not so much meditation as just a peaceful time before the day started. Would I do it every day? probably not, this morning, I could not sleep again, so I woke up and played James Blunt, again it was a peaceful time, with some nice music, is what is being suggested slightly Vedic? yeah sure it is, its a bit 3HO, but, in the big scheme of things, where there are some truly nasty and stupid people out there who do all sorts in the name of Sikhi, I do think it is the big bad monster some of us make it out to be, I personally do not think this thread should turn into a big debate as to whether it is Sikhi or not.....


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## findingmyway (May 27, 2013)

harry haller said:


> friends,
> 
> I personally see this as having very little to do with Sikhi itself per se, I think what Chazji is trying to do is encourage something akin to going to the gym. Let us not get bogged down with whether it is written or not, the guy is just trying to channel some positive energy into something that he believes works. I have my own feelings on the matter, and to be honest, I resonate more with Japhisahib04ji above, but, given all the bad practices and bad thoughts that we all do and think, just taking Sikhism out of it for a minute, waking up early in the morning and doing whatever it is that gives you a connection has got to be better than shooting up, browsing for porn, smoking drugs, etc etc etc,
> 
> I woke up the other morning and just played a few shabads and lost myself in the music, it was not so much meditation as just a peaceful time before the day started. Would I do it every day? probably not, this morning, I could not sleep again, so I woke up and played James Blunt, again it was a peaceful time, with some nice music, is what is being suggested slightly Vedic? yeah sure it is, its a bit 3HO, but, in the big scheme of things, where there are some truly nasty and stupid people out there who do all sorts in the name of Sikhi, I do think it is the big bad monster some of us make it out to be, I personally do not think this thread should turn into a big debate as to whether it is Sikhi or not.....



Harry Veerji,
I also have admration for Chazji for his get up and go attitude. I try and engage people through Gurbani with Shabad of the Week, he tries to engage people with meditation-both are valuable for those struggling alone. I wish him well with the project. Where the difficulty lies is in semantics which are important. Time and again on many many threads, the time in the morning is called amrit vela when this is a distortion of Gurbani. Time and again we (the readers) are all told to try and change our routines and work towards the morning. I can think of several posts in recent months that push this. I do think this is a fundamental misunderstanding and found I could no longer keep quiet. 

Firstly pushing the morning discriminates against night owls and shift workers. It also makes the process ritualistic. More importantly, labelling a specific time as amrit vela, moves us away from the true meaning of amrit vela and therefore the aim to try and be connected as much as possible. Using the words has a deep psychological impact of making amrit vela a tick box exercise rather than a LIFESTYLE.

If Chaz ji and Lucky ji and others called it meditation time or simran time I would have no problems with it as it would then not be changing the meaning of Gurbani. I promise I am not trying to be perverse but the Guru's word is sacred and should be used according to its true meaning. If meditation helps people achieve a Gurmat way of life then that is wonderful but by changing meanings of words this cannot be achieved.


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## Harry Haller (May 27, 2013)

Jasleen sisji

I absolutely agree with you on all counts, I do not think either of the boys have any agenda on the definition of Amrit Vela, but I also think it is important that people recognise that Amrit Vela is every hour, every minute, every second of our lives. 

I do not think I am going to get away with the anti semantic joke anymore, so I guess I will have to think of something else every time the semantic word gets mentioned.

maybe we should call it early morning Amrit Vela!


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## Luckysingh (May 27, 2013)

True to the point Harryji, Amrit vela just like ant kaal, is every moment of our day.
In fact we are blessed with a new breath followed by every previous breath yet the very next breath could even be the last.

I mean if I heard someone say ''Oh I can't do my nitnem now or my simran because I slept through amrit vela!!'' - then I too would have a good laugh at the stupidity of this logic.

Your right it's a very positive thing and suggestion by Chazji that can maybe help one of us. We are all different and we all respond differently to different actions.
Some of us can better ourselves by physically channeling energy into simran for awakening our true selves, yet others can do the same from other means.
For me personally, If I start my day by channeling energy into simran, then the vibrations of waheguru continue throughout the day no matter what comes in my path.
It helps me stay gurmat in my thoughts and actions because of the love and reassurance I get from simran.

There is a chemical in the brain called serotonin that gives us the feel good factor and makes us feel better about our own selves. Many drugs and antidepressants work by increasing these levels of serotonin such as SSRI and SNRI's.
In fact the physical and psychological 'feel good factor' that one gets by strenuous exercise or activity such as ''runners high'' is also because of this same chemical release.
Some people can also get this same release with sunlight(SAD),chocolates, sexual activity...etc..

I am more than certain that I can get this same release by simran and for me that is better than popping a pill (believe me, I've had enough antidepressants and uppers in my lifetime)
What amazes me is that not only do I get this feel good factor, but it gives me the divine feelings of anand and awareness that the lord is forever present within me and on the outwardly. 
It's difficult to explain but it helps keep me very neutral and very calm, seeing that I have demonstrated manic depressive actions many times in my past.

I spent nearly a lifetime looking for this inner peace. I am ashamed to admit all of my activities but I had looked in all the clubs, strip joints, liquor bottles, champagne corks, tabs and smokes that there could possibly be, but never found what I was looking for.
In fact, I was so wound up in the looking with my fast cars, fast clothes and fast lifestyle that I got so lost and forgot what I was really searching for !!

Just like in gurbani it tells us that we can search and make pilgrimages to all the corners of the world but we won't find him unless we search within.
Sadly, this search within and starting with finding yourself doesn't happen in a day or two.
*This search is what a lifetime of sikhi is about*.


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