# Shabad/Word/Akhkhar



## simpy (Mar 28, 2007)

*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Nanak Dev Ji De Bachan Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib De Panna#4*


*AsMK nwv AsMK Qwv ]*
*AgMm AgMm AsMK loA ]*
*AsMK khih isir Bwru hoie ]*
*AKrI nwmu AKrI swlwh ]*
*AKrI igAwnu gIq gux gwh ]*
*AKrI ilKxu bolxu bwix ]*
*AKrw isir sMjogu vKwix ]*
*ijin eyih ilKy iqsu isir nwih ]*
*ijv Purmwey iqv iqv pwih ]*
*jyqw kIqw qyqw nwau ]*
*ivxu nwvY nwhI ko Qwau ]*
*kudriq kvx khw vIcwru ]*
*vwirAw n jwvw eyk vwr ]*
*jo quDu BwvY sweI BlI kwr ]*
*qU sdw slwmiq inrMkwr ]*




*forgive me please*


----------------------------------------
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*AMg 4*
*ang 4*
*Page 4*

*AsMK nwv AsMK Qwv ]*
*asunkh n**aa**v asunkh th**aa**v *
*Countless names, countless places.*

*AgMm AgMm AsMK loA ]*
*agunm agunm asunkh l**o**a *
*Inaccessible, unapproachable, countless celestial realms.*

*AsMK khih isir Bwru hoie ]*
*asunkh keheh**i** s**i**r bh**aa**r h**o**e *
*Even to call them countless is to carry the weight on your head.*

*AKrI nwmu AKrI swlwh ]*
*akhur**ee** n**aa**m akhur**ee** s**aa**l**aa**h *
*From the Word, comes the Naam; from the Word, comes Your Praise.*

*AKrI igAwnu gIq gux gwh ]*
*akhur**ee** g**iaa**n g**ee**th g**u**n g**aa**h *
*From the Word, comes spiritual wisdom, singing the Songs of Your Glory.*

*AKrI ilKxu bolxu bwix ]*
*akhur**ee** l**i**khun b**o**lun b**aa**n *
*From the Word, come the written and spoken words and hymns.*

*AKrw isir sMjogu vKwix ]*
*akhur**aa** s**i**r sunj**o**g vukh**aa**n *
*From the Word, comes destiny, written on one's forehead.*

*ijin eyih ilKy iqsu isir nwih ]*
*j**i**n e**ae**h**i** l**i**kh**ae** th**i**s s**i**r n**aa**h**i*
*But the One who wrote these Words of Destiny-no words are written on His Forehead.*

*ijv Purmwey iqv iqv pwih ]*
*j**i**v f**u**rum**aa**e**ae** th**i**v th**i**v p**aa**h**i*
*As He ordains, so do we receive.*

*jyqw kIqw qyqw nwau ]*
*j**ae**th**aa** k**ee**th**aa** th**ae**th**aa** n**aa**o *
*The created universe is the manifestation of Your Name.*

*ivxu nwvY nwhI ko Qwau ]*
*v**i**n n**aa**v**ai** n**aa**h**ee** k**o** th**aa**o *
*Without Your Name, there is no place at all.*

*kudriq kvx khw vIcwru ]*
*k**u**dhurath kuvun keh**aa** v**ee**ch**aa**r *
*How can I describe Your Creative Power?*

*vwirAw n jwvw eyk vwr ]*
*v**aa**r**iaa** n j**aa**v**aa** e**ae**k v**aa**r *
*I cannot even once be a sacrifice to You.*

*jo quDu BwvY sweI BlI kwr ]*
*j**o** th**u**dh bh**aa**v**ai** s**aaee** bhul**ee** k**aa**r *
*Whatever pleases You is the only good done,*

*qU sdw slwmiq inrMkwr ]19]*
*th**oo** sudh**aa** sul**aa**math n**i**runk**aa**r *
*You, Eternal and Formless One. ||19||*



*Source-SIKHITOTHEMAX*


forgive me please


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## simpy (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: Shabad/Akhkhar/Word*

*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Nanak Dev Ji De Bachan Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib De Panna # 8*

*jqu pwhwrw DIrju suinAwru ]*
*Ahrix miq vydu hQIAwru ]*
*Bau Klw Agin qp qwau ]*
*BWfw Bwau AMimRqu iqqu Fwil ]*
*GVIAY sbdu scI tkswl ]*
*ijn kau ndir krmu iqn kwr ]*
*nwnk ndrI ndir inhwl ]*


*forgive me please*

*------------------------------------*
*------------------------------------*


*AMg 8*
*ang 8*
*Page 8*

*jqu pwhwrw DIrju suinAwru ]*
*juth p**aa**h**aa**r**aa** dh**ee**ruj s**u**n**iaa**r *
*Let self-control be the furnace, and patience the goldsmith.*

*Ahrix miq vydu hQIAwru ]*
*ahuran math v**ae**dh huth**eeaa**r *
*Let understanding be the anvil, and spiritual wisdom the tools.*

*Bau Klw Agin qp qwau ]*
*bho khul**aa** agan thup th**aa**o *
*With the Fear of God as the bellows, fan the flames of tapa, the body's inner heat.*

*BWfw Bwau AMimRqu iqqu Fwil ]*
*bh**aa**dd**aa** bh**aa**o anmr**i**th th**i**th t**aa**l *
*In the crucible of love, melt the Nectar of the Name,*

*GVIAY sbdu scI tkswl ]*
*ghurr**eeai** subudh such**ee** ttukus**aa**l *
*and mint the True Coin of the Shabad, the Word of God.*

*ijn kau ndir krmu iqn kwr ]*
*j**i**n ko nudhar kurum th**i**n k**aa**r *
*Such is the karma of those upon whom He has cast His Glance of Grace.*

*nwnk ndrI ndir inhwl ]38]*
*n**aa**nuk nudhur**ee** nudhar n**i**h**aa**l *
*O Nanak, the Merciful Lord, by His Grace, uplifts and exalts them. ||38||*



*Source-SIKHITOTHEMAX*


forgive me please


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## simpy (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Shabad/Akhkhar/Word*

*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Arjan Dev Ji De Bachan Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji De Panna # 192*


*ijsu ismrq dUKu sBu jwie ]*
*nwmu rqnu vsY min Awie ]1]*
*jip mn myry goivMd kI bwxI ]*
*swDU jn rwmu rsn vKwxI ]1] rhwau ]*
*ieksu ibnu nwhI dUjw koie ]*
*jw kI idRsit sdw suKu hoie ]2]*
*swjnu mIqu sKw kir eyku ]*
*hir hir AKr mn mih lyKu ]3]*
*riv rihAw srbq suAwmI ]*
*gux gwvY nwnku AMqrjwmI ]4]*






*AMg 192*
*ang 192*
*Page 192*

*gauVI mhlw 5 ]*
*go**u**rr**ee** mehul**aa** 5 *
*Gauree, Fifth Mehl:*

*ijsu ismrq dUKu sBu jwie ]*
*j**i**s s**i**muruth dh**oo**kh subh j**aa**e *
*Remembering Him in meditation, all pains are gone.*

*nwmu rqnu vsY min Awie ]1]*
*n**aa**m ruthun vus**ai** man **aa**e *
*The jewel of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, comes to dwell in the mind. ||1||*

*jip mn myry goivMd kI bwxI ]*
*jap mun m**ae**r**ae** g**o**v**i**ndh k**ee** b**aa**n**ee*
*O my mind, chant the Bani, the Hymns of the Lord of the Universe.*

*swDU jn rwmu rsn vKwxI ]1] rhwau ]*
*s**aa**dh**oo** jun r**aa**m rusun vukh**aa**n**ee*
*The Holy People chant the Lord's Name with their tongues. ||1||Pause||*

*ieksu ibnu nwhI dUjw koie ]*
*e**i**kus b**i**n n**aa**h**ee** dh**oo**j**aa** k**o**e *
*Without the One Lord, there is no other at all.*

*jw kI idRsit sdw suKu hoie ]2]*
*j**aa** k**ee** dhr**i**satt sudh**aa** s**u**kh h**o**e *
*By His Glance of Grace, eternal peace is obtained. ||2||*

*swjnu mIqu sKw kir eyku ]*
*s**aa**jun m**ee**th sukh**aa** kar e**ae**k *
*Make the One Lord your friend, intimate and companion.*

*hir hir AKr mn mih lyKu ]3]*
*har har akhur mun meh**i** l**ae**kh *
*Write in your mind the Word of the Lord, Har, Har. ||3||*

*riv rihAw srbq suAwmI ]*
*rav reh**iaa** surubuth s**uaa**m**ee*
*The Lord Master is totally pervading everywhere.*

*gux gwvY nwnku AMqrjwmI ]4]62]131]*
*g**u**n g**aa**v**ai** n**aa**nuk anthuruj**aa**m**ee*
*Nanak sings the Praises of the Inner-knower, the Searcher of hearts. ||4||62||131||*


*Source-SikhiToTheMax*


*forgive me please*


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## hps (Apr 23, 2007)

"We need to focus our consciousness on the Pure Self (Divine Essence, _Shabad_ or _Naam_, _Satguru_, God, Unconditioned Consciousness) within"


What exactly is the meaning of 'Shabad' and 'Naam'.?These words have appeared in the entire SGGS at many places.Kindly expand for the benefit of the viewers.It has appeared at so many places that it seems that 'Shabad' is not to mean as we ordinarily interpret.imilarly 'Naam' appears to have special meaning. 

"ijin syivAw iqin pwieAw mwnu ]

Those who serve Him find the reality about Him (the proof of His existence), they are accepted gracefully at His Dargah and are liberated from the bondage."

The above is quoted for the benefit of discussion.
1.What is the exact meaning of 'who serve HiM'.What kind of service will be qualified to enable one to find the reality about HIM.Is the service to be made in some physical form like charity to poor or remembering HIM.KIndly explain?It appears that HE is to be served .Is it so.?Please help.
I have many other doubts and shall post them when you feel comfortable.
Thanks and regards.


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## simpy (Apr 23, 2007)

*Re: Understanding Japuji Sahib*



hps said:


> "We need to focus our consciousness on the Pure Self (Divine Essence, _Shabad_ or _Naam_, _Satguru_, God, Unconditioned Consciousness) within"
> 
> 
> What exactly is the meaning of 'Shabad' and 'Naam'.?These words have appeared in the entire SGGS at many places.Kindly expand for the benefit of the viewers.It has appeared at so many places that it seems that 'Shabad' is not to mean as we ordinarily interpret.imilarly 'Naam' appears to have special meaning.
> ...


 
 *Respected Saadh Sangat Ji  ,*

*a lot more is coming in the following Pauries that will be making a lot of it more clear. me neech is nobody to clear your doubts. can only express my part of understanding.*

*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has the answer to all of your questions and doubts. Our Dhan dhan Guru Sahibaan has given us such a Precious Gift. Guru is always alongwith......*

*Shabad/Akhar/Naam it is called by several names. for me neech it is the EXPERIENCE OF THE EXISTANCE OF THE ALMIGHTY and it is achieved by remembering the same. Like anything else there are several ways and words for the same to express it. And everybody experience this With His own Grace. *
*And Serving Him- mostly misunderstood just like the words-Surrendering to Him.*

*Me neech understand this that Service to Him- REMEMBERING HIM 24/7*
*And surrendering to Him- living in His Will not in  i-ness.*

*and when you start remembring His Naam all the time, other things all that rola ghachola of worldly stuff strats fading away in the back ground. it is there but it does not bother you anymore. eventually with His Grace you reach the point of ultimate peace- Pooran Anand. *

*Who are we to serve Him- He Himself is no seperate and is the KARTAPURKH. BAKI SABH BHULEKHA HAI  If It is not His Will we cannot even Remember Him for a moment, can we.........*



*i humbly ask for your forgiveness.*


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## hps (Apr 23, 2007)

*AKrI nwmu AKrI swlwh ] (4-7, jpu, mÚ 1)*
From the Word, comes the NAAM; from the Word, comes Your Praise.

*AKrI igAwnu gIq gux gwh ] (4-8, jpu, mÚ 1)*
From the Word, comes spiritual wisdom, singing the Songs of Your Glory.



1.I am very grateful for the beautiful expalantion of Naam/Shabad.I am unable to post my queries at appropriate pages as I am new to this site and hence I shall be posting my doubts at one place only.You may kindly bear with my ignorance.


2.It shall be so kind of you if you can throw some light on 'Shabad' and 'Naam'.In view of that is quoted above from Japu ji sahib it appears that shabad and Naam are two different things as 'from the word comes the naam'.What is *shabad*.Even if it be proof of HIS existance, it must be something that one can appreciate.I am veryu new to Sikhism and am reading SGGS to make concepts only.It is my first reading only.I feel stuck up when these terms appear repititivly. I am again quoting some of the parts where these appear.This is only to make thing easier for me.As I am ignorant I shall not speculate on the meaning that is provided by you.It shall be very beneficial if you could elaborate as the meaning given by you ,may be it is 100 percent correct,is not clear to me and it is the doubt of many seekers.Thanks in anticipation.



*AKrI ilKxu bolxu bwix ] (4-8, jpu, mÚ 1)*
From the Word, come the written and spoken words and hymns.
*AKrw isir sMjogu vKwix ] (4-8, jpu, mÚ 1)*
From the Word, comes destiny, written on one's forehead.



I again quote from Japu ji Sahib.The following deals with 'Naam'.What is the 'Naam' here.?


*jyqw kIqw qyqw nwau ] (4-9, jpu, mÚ 1)*
The created universe is the manifestation of Your Name.
*ivxu nwvY nwhI ko Qwau ] (4-10, jpu, mÚ 1)*
Without Your Name, there is no place at all.


*BrIAY miq pwpw kY sMig ] (4-12, jpu, mÚ 1)*
But when the intellect is stained and polluted by sin,
*Ehu DpY nwvY kY rMig ] (4-13, jpu, mÚ 1)*
it can only be cleansed by the Love of the Name.



3.Another similar term that appears is 'sound current/Naad'.I shall be grateful if the meaning of word/shabad is elaborated.It is true that you might have spritually experienced the shabad/naam but for a blind like me how to percieve.I shall understand if the meaning is explained.The sound current can be discussed separately.

4. From the above it is clear that there is ,in essence, difference between "naam' and 'shabad' and hence has to be differentiated.


Thx and regards as usual.

hps

*nwnk nwmu ArwiD sBnw qy vfw siB nwvY AgY Awix invwey ]15] (89-7, isrIrwgu, mÚ 5)*
O Nanak, worship and adore the NAAM, the Greatest Name of all, before which all come and bow. ||15||

1.This is an example of the usage of the word 'naam' that uniformly appears over entire SGGS.Why such an importance is given to 'naam' ?.From the initial/first reading of 90 pages of SGGS it appears that the entire purpose of life is to remember HIM thru. 'Naam'.As per my little knowledge the name should be 'waheguru' or 'om' or even 'allah' or some name that is enough to reflect that one is remembering the Almighty lord.Naam is received as agrace of HIM and is obtainable under the guidance of Guru. 
As the Bani is of Nanak Sahib ji,it is safe to presume that SGGS was not available at that poiunt of time andhence wherever the reference is coming to Guru it would be something other than the SGGS.Thus who is that Guru who would help achieving Naam is another or seond question.
This may kindly be read with the earlier post.


*"socY soic n hoveI jy socI lK vwr ]*​
By Cleansing our bodies, the mental filth cannot be cleaned, even by cleansing hundreds of thousands of times.
Outer Bathing cannot clean the inner koor."

I have quoted from the above.It appears that there is some mix up.

It should mean, in my opinion, that we cannot put HIM in words or thoughts even if we think of HIM million of times.[literal translation] HE is beyond description. [metaphorical]. May kindly like to correct if it is ok.
thx and regards.


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## hps (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Understanding Japuji Sahib*

*nwnk eyvY jwxIAY sBu Awpy sicAwru ]4]
Liberation brings us the knowledge of the True Master- HE Himself is ALL ||4||*

This is again quoted as it is from the write up.Liberation [mukti] brings us the knowledge of True Master. However, many a times it has been stated in SGGS that without true Master we cannot ptoceed ahead on the path of Sprituality.Hence the position changes.Kindly reconcile whether theTrue Mastr helps  us in attaining mukti/salvation/liberation or by attaining Mukti we come to know HIM.

Bhul Chuk Maaf
hps


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## simpy (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Understanding Japuji Sahib*



hps said:


> *nwnk eyvY jwxIAY sBu Awpy sicAwru ]4]*
> *Liberation brings us the knowledge of the True Master- HE Himself is ALL ||4||*
> 
> This is again quoted as it is from the write up.Liberation [mukti] brings us the knowledge of True Master. However, many a times it has been stated in SGGS that without true Master we cannot ptoceed ahead on the path of Sprituality.Hence the position changes.Kindly reconcile whether theTrue Mastr helps us in attaining mukti/salvation/liberation or by attaining Mukti we come to know HIM.
> ...


 
* Respected Saadh Sangat Ji  *

*here Master is refered to Waheguru not a master in worldly prospective. 'He Himself is All'. So we get this understanding- 'ALL IS GOD AND GOD IS ALL'*

*and please don't concentrate on one line only-*
*the begining of this pauri- the last line you catched but you didn't hold on to the first line that states Waheguru as Master-SAHIB*
*swcw swihbu swcu nwie BwiKAw Bwau Apwru ]*

*True is the Master, True is His Name. And the devotees speak it with infinite love. Here Guru Ji is addressing God as “Sahib”:the Master/Commander. *



*and just to make things more clear, in Gurbani Guru and God both words have been used interchangeably.*

*Guru(the Spiritual Teacher) like in our case it is now-Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.*

*as there is no difference between the two.*

*yes it does take some time for many to grasp this truth.*

*me neech understands that Guru is one with the HigherSelf. And shows all of us the path to reach that state of mind. *

*another thing -If it is a state of mind then how it can be stored in Paper in the Roop Of Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji-'Shabad Guru'.*

*A Spiritual Master/Teacher/Guru -what he/she does- teaches us the path. as a seeker we follow that path. So Guru and Guru's Teachings are not two separate entities. Guru is already one with God and is His Roop- so not limited to only some form. is sarav vyaapak in Spirit sense. So are the teachings  .*

*bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ]*
*guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry ]*

*also*
*Bani is not limited, that's why it is said to be 'Nirankaar'.*

*vwhu vwhu bwxI inrMkwr hY iqsu jyvfu Avru n koie ]*

*one more thing i must say- if you are realy into learning Gurbani and you are a true seeker- Don't depend on English translations(available in the market) solely. lots of discrepancies. Read Bhai Veer Singh Ji's gurmukhi translations(the best), Professor Sahib Singh ji(most of it makes a lot of sense).*

*Very important thing- Self Realization is experiential, like pain can only be experienced by the 'soul and body' in pain, same way this can only be experienced solely by the individual. and we can only express it somewhat, not fully in human language.*

*i will respond to the previous post later today sometime or in a few days.*

*humbly asking for your forgiveness.*


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## simpy (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Understanding Japuji Sahib*



hps said:


> *AKrI nwmu AKrI swlwh ] (4-7, jpu, mÚ 1)*
> From the Word, comes the NAAM; from the Word, comes Your Praise.
> 
> *AKrI igAwnu gIq gux gwh ] (4-8, jpu, mÚ 1)*
> ...


 
* Respected hps Ji  ,*

*i am starting it and will keep adding to it as i get a chance to sit  .*

*first of all to understand all this jungle of many words that is confusing you*

*what happens on our Spiritual Jouney*
*me neech classifying it in my words(again word )*

*1. Simran (reciting a word that represents Waheguru/God and alongwith thinking of His presence). 'His existance is'/there is God this belief has to be there, otherwise we cannot do Simran.*
*first we start with smaller fractions of time then longer and .....*
*other thoughts(other than God) are there, visible to mind but we start ignoring them. Waheguru gives more and more understandindg of its Existance. we do more Simran, mind gets more pure, more pious.....*

*2. Continous remembrace in Mind all the time-WITHOUT EFFORT. starts to have mystic experiences at higher levels. some Ridhi and Sidhies are experienced. hearing Naad within and without, having Vibrations, visions of all types of energies-some of this happens, all depends upon how much purified we are and all that. Remember all this is also Maya don't get caught in this, there is more to go.....*

*3. the rest of the rola(in mind) fades away completely. it is there but not much visible to mind. We only use the stored memory to do our day to day work but chit(mind) is always engrossed with Niranjan/Parmatma/God. Vey high level of Mystic Experiences- unexplainable....*

*4. if able to maintain piousness- Ultimate Peace.*

*Will add more later*

*humbly asking for your forgiveness*


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## hps (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Understanding Japuji Sahib*

*Repeat -kindly explain 'Naam'*
May be you are right that I should consult some other translations of SGGS.However, it is believed that something that is not explained in most of the translations would be the same.In the preset context The following is quoted:
imil sqsMgiq hir nwmu iDAweIAY ] (96-4, mwJ, mÚ 4)
Joining the Sat Sangat, I meditate on the Lord's Name

The 'naam' has been specifically used in SGGS.

Looking at the first glance it could have been avoided as follows:
imil sqsMgiq hir iDAweIAY
Joining the Sat Sangat, I meditate on the Lord and not Lord's name................................ .


To the same effect the following may be seen where 'Naam' is deemed to be bestowed by the Lord Himself

(10-2, gUjrI, mÚ 4)
I am a mere insect, a worm. O True Guru, I seek Your Sanctuary. Please be merciful, and bless me with the Light of the NAAM, the Name of the Lord. ||1||
*(11-16, Awsw, mÚ 4)*
Those who are blessed with Your Mercy obtain the Jewel of the NAAM, the Name of the Lord.
(17-7, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
They worship the NAAM, and they believe in the NAAM. The True One is forever Intact and Unbroken. ||3||
 
(98-19, mwJ, mÚ 5)
Meditating in remembrance on the NAAM, they are happy forever. The Lord, Merciful to the meek, bestows it upon them. ||1||


(99-12, mwJ, mÚ 5)
The True Guru has inspired me to hear the Treasure of the NAAM; all my illness has been dispelled. ||2||
Why such an importance has been given to Naam.The above sounds an equally potent message and clear as well without the usage of Naam.I am supposed to remember HIM and not HIS name as I do not know by what name should I remember HIM. It can be 'Allah' as well.There is nothing wrong in this.As I am stuick up here I cannot proceed further. May be for you this is a simple question but for me it is an important question.Kindly explain as to what is the significance of 'Naam' in the context of remembering HIM or meditating.When one meditates one draws the picture of the object and not His name/Naam.Well the practice may differ.However, in majority of the cases this should be correct.


Is it simply because as we cannot see HIM that we have to identify HIM by some name.But even then giving name to 'nirankar' would be meaningless.As anything 'formless' cannot be encaged by its name, hence the doubt.How do I know HIS name.I do not know it.Yes, I want to follow the SGGS in word and spirit. Can you guide me, friend, as to by which name should I remember HIM. I shall just call HIMonce and HE should listen to me.May be my way of calling HIM is defective. But the HE knows that I am requesting HIM to have pity on me and let me have HIS darshan and let me get lost in HIM if that is the ultimate objective of this life.

Kindly share experience and do not indulge in excessive writing unless you have experienced something majestic.I can also write a beautiful translation of SGGS but it will not be a penny worth as I have experienced nothing.As i Do not know HIM by name I cannot remember HIM. Yes. the 'name' of lord is magical.If you address your answer to 'hps' I am likely to stop and read it. However, if it is not addressed to 'hps' the chances are that I may not go thru and skip it.In the same fashion HE would also be guided by some 'Naam'.It is the essence of ome of the spritual masters and there is nothing wrong in this.

Kindly ignore that may have hurt you as it is never be the intention of the author of this message.Please reply at peace.
thx. and deep regards.

hps


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## simpy (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Understanding Japuji Sahib*



hps said:


> *Repeat -kindly explain 'Naam'*
> May be you are right that I should consult some other translations of SGGS.However, it is believed that something that is not explained in most of the translations would be the same.In the preset context The following is quoted:
> imil sqsMgiq hir nwmu iDAweIAY ] (96-4, mwJ, mÚ 4)
> Joining the Sat Sangat, I meditate on the Lord's Name
> ...


 
* Respected hps Ji  ,*

*please hold your horses, hathelee te saron nahi jamdi.*

*if you are so lost in word jungle then you need to understand a lot of things before i can proceed to respond to all the questions you are asking me.*

*if you have doubts, i must stop answering you. AS IT WILL NOT HELP YOU AT ALL. *
*i humbly stated before as well-it is what me neech understand and experience-and my way of explaining it may not fit you hps ji.... Waheguru clears the doubts for everybody, me neech surinder is nothing.*
*And you are not the first one i am explaining this to. i know restlessness happens, but one will have to proceed with firm understanding of certain things. And as i stated in the above post-i am not finished yet, a lot more has to be added to it....*

*now if you look at your question on pauri 4 last line. it was a very simple and clear statement and you made it difficult for yourself as you didn't hold on to the facts discussed earlier: what Guru Ji stated in the 1st line of the pauri. THIS WAY ONE CANNOT LEARN OR UNDERSTAND ANYTHING. *

*this seems like a student who tears away the page that teacher(in our case here is GURU JI) taught yesterday and now has no idea what it was and stuck up on today's lesson.*

*i am not hurt by any of your statements, there is nothing to get hurt from- is there anything?. Guru Ji's Teachings are there and True for ever, ITS MEANING DOES'T CHANGE- yes it may be a different style of learning that will penetrate the Truth into your mind. Sorry respected hps ji.*

*i may answer a few questions you posed whenever i have a chance, as it may help somebody else.*

*your choice you ignore it, read it, skip it  .*

*please forgive me*


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## hps (Apr 27, 2007)

27.04.2007
I agree that I should first clear my doubts and hence I am doing the same...Regards.


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## hps (May 3, 2007)

Reaspected Surinder Kaur ji
3.05.2007
I shall be garteful if you could elaborate the meaning of the following.I have no idea of Sushmana.You can place this anywhere if yoiu think the topic is to be placed somewhere.
mn ry pvn idRV suKmn nwrI ]1] rhwau ] (327-5, gauVI, kbIr jI)
O mind, hold your breath steady within the central channel of the Sushmanaa. ||1||Pause||
Regards.
hps


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## simpy (May 3, 2007)

* Respected hps ji  ,*

*i am not sure what you are asking for- above?????*

*you can keep the question you are asking under this thread, as this stage Kabir ji is describing is one of the stages after- Akhkhar jin ko ayyaa...*

*i am not sure about the level of response though........*

*forgive me please*


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## ekmusafir_ajnabi (May 3, 2007)

Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Nanak Dev Ji De Bachan Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib De Panna#4*
> 
> 
> *AsMK nwv AsMK Qwv ]*
> ...


 
Surinder Kaur ji,

My sincere apollogies for the interuption. The translation of the above pauri with assistance from Faridkot Teeka goes as follows:

AsMK nwv AsMK Qwv ] 
asaNkh naav asaNkh thaav.
He has given his creation Countless names, countless are the places where they live.
AgMm AgMm AsMK loA ] 
agamm agamm asaNkh lo-a.
Innumerable are his realms, that are inaccessible and inscrutable.
AsMK khih isir Bwru hoie ] 
asaNkh kehahi sir bhaar ho-ay.
Even to call them countless is like carrying weight on your head. ( i.e. to say countless is like doing injustice)
AKrI nwmu AKrI swlwh ] 
akhree naam akhree saalaah.
It is through words that we can recite the Naam, It is through words that we can sing your Praises.
AKrI igAwnu gIq gux gwh ] 
akhree gi-aan geet gun gaah.
It is through words that we aquire spiritual wisdom, It is through words that we sing the Songs of Your Glory.
AKrI ilKxu bolxu bwix ] 
akhree likhan bolan baan.
It is through words that we write and communicate our thoughts.
AKrw isir sMjogu vKwix ] 
akhraa sir sanjog vakhaan.
It is through words that ones destiny can be foretold.( ones fate scribed on ones forehead (as revealed through with astrology)
ijin eyih ilKy iqsu isir nwih ] 
jin ayhi likhay tis sir naahi.
But the One who wrote these Words of Destiny does not have and words on His Forehead. (He cannot be put into words).
ijv Purmwey iqv iqv pwih ] 
jiv furmaa-ay tiv tiv paahi.
As He ordains, we receive and follow our destiny.
jyqw kIqw qyqw nwau ] 
jaytaa keetaa taytaa naa-o.
The whole creation is your manifestation.
ivxu nwvY nwhI ko Qwau ] 
vin naavai naahee ko thaa-o.
There is no such place that is void of your existance.
kudriq kvx khw vIcwru ] 
kudrat kavan kahaa veechaar.
How can I describe Your Creative Power?
vwirAw n jwvw eyk vwr ] 
vaari-aa na jaavaa ayk vaar.
I cannot even once be a sacrifice to You.
jo quDu BwvY sweI BlI kwr ] 
jo tuDh bhaavai saa-ee bhalee kaar.
Whatever pleases You that is the only good done,
qU sdw slwmiq inrMkwr ]19] 
too sadaa salaamat nirankaar. ||19||
You are the Everlasting, Eternal and Formless One. ||19||

Summary:
God has created Countless lives and countless places (Earths) where they live. There is no word in our speech that can describe him. Speech is also gifted to us by Him for the purpose of “Naam Simran”. Do not think that you can get to know him through words. All you see around you, each and every thing is his creation. No one can imagine the size and extent of his creation.


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## simpy (May 3, 2007)

*Respected EkMusafir Ajnabi Ji,*

*thanks a lot for sharing this translation. A better one certainly.*
*i really want to discuss this and find some way out to describe the true deapth of these terms- word, shabad and others in more simple words.*

*it will be nice if you can share more of your understanding on these as well. *

*understanding Guru's word ourselves is not hard when you have unshakable faith. it is hard putting it into simple language to make others understand-  ...*

*You are right we cannot know Him through words. *

*We need to understand the WORD(Guru Ji's teachings) and then practically live that.*
*What amazes me is- All is His Creation. He is in All, All is He Himself. And He is looking at this all, through His own Creation. Waheguru Tera Sabh Sadkaa. When one Sees Bani Nirankaar Roop, Partakh in all forms, makes one speechless, cannot think to think words anymore....*

*forgive me please*


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## hps (May 3, 2007)

Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> ** Respected hps ji*  ,*
> 
> i am not sure what you are asking for- above?????
> 
> ...


 
I am just asking for the meaning of the line as given at page number 327 Of SGGS.I am an ignorant person.Obviously persons whose sushmana nadi is open are great yogi's but I am not sure as you have rightly stated that is noted with a great delight: 
"..i am not sure about level of response though............................................."
It is only from the learned that the uneducated are to learn.You should atleast give a try after going thru. the preceeding and the following  lines to the above.if you want I can paste the page 327 of the SGGS.
REPLY AT YOUR COVENIENCE.
regards.

hps


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## simpy (May 3, 2007)

*Respected hps Ji,*

*haven't we tried  talking about Gurbani before respected hps ji, remember it didn't work between us. so let us see what others say.*

*my doubt is about the response on this topic under this thread, not overall. you can start a new thread about it, me neech think that it would be more viable, but it is all upto you-YOUR CHOICE.*

*forgive me please*


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## ekmusafir_ajnabi (May 3, 2007)

*Re: Shabad/Akhkhar/Word*



Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Nanak Dev Ji De Bachan Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib De Panna # 8*
> 
> *jqu pwhwrw DIrju suinAwru ]*
> *Ahrix miq vydu hQIAwru ]*
> ...


 

My humble elaboration of the above Shabad.


*AMg 8*
*ang 8*
*Page 8*

*jqu pwhwrw DIrju suinAwru ]*
*juth p**aa**h**aa**r**aa** dh**ee**ruj s**u**n**iaa**r *
*Let self-control(control of your five senses) be the furnace, and have the patience of the goldsmith.*

*Ahrix miq vydu hQIAwru ]*
*ahuran math v**ae**dh huth**eeaa**r *
*Let your understanding be as solid as the anvil (firm, without any doubts), and spiritual wisdom be the hammer.*

*Bau Klw Agin qp qwau ]*
*bho khul**aa** agan thup th**aa**o *
*Let the Fear of God be the bellows, hard work(Tapassya) be the flames.(The heat of determination)*

*BWfw Bwau AMimRqu iqqu Fwil ]*
*bh**aa**dd**aa** bh**aa**o anmr**i**th th**i**th t**aa**l *
*In the crucible of Love for God, melt the Liberating Naam of God. (Loose your “self” where only He exists – like water loses his existence when mixed in milk)*

*GVIAY sbdu scI tkswl ]*
*ghurr**eeai** subudh such**ee** ttukus**aa**l *
*give shape to the Shabad by this true method/ technique (as mentioned above).*

*ijn kau ndir krmu iqn kwr ]*
*j**i**n ko nudhar kurum th**i**n k**aa**r *
*Only those that he casts His Glance of Grace upon can perform this task.*

*nwnk ndrI ndir inhwl ]38]*
*n**aa**nuk nudhur**ee** nudhar n**i**h**aa**l *
*O Nanak, the Merciful Lord, by His Grace, uplifts and exalts them. ||38||*

*This elevated spiritual stage is achieved/achievable only when your character is exhaulted (i.e.full control over your senses – the stage of living death) With the ability to overcome the effects of (Kam Krodth, Lobh, Moh and Ahankar). Clear and concise understanding. Clarity of Mind. Fear and Love of God. When a Sikh has such preparation, by following the above method/technique (and with the Grave of the Divine) he reaches the same spiritual stage in which Guru ji gave us this Shabad.*

*Shabad here is the message of God. *

The above is my understanding.


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## simpy (May 3, 2007)

*Respected Ekmusafir Ajnabi Ji,*

*thanks- it is Divine.*

*we have this word-Bau in Gurbani( it is in this Pauri as well), whenever i come through this word- it makes me neech feel that the fear a Gursikh should have is -WAHEGURU'S REMEMBRANCE doesn't go away from one's mind, not even for a moment. As one become firm and has no doubts about anything anymore, Eh Aani Jani Duneeyaa da bhai ta khatam ho gayaa. All that stays is only the Precious Sacha Sahib. *

*forgive me please*


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## ekmusafir_ajnabi (May 3, 2007)

Surinder Kaur ji,



> *i really want to discuss this and find some way out to describe the true deapth of these terms- word, shabad and others in more simple words.*


 
Due to the poetic nature of Gurbani, Our Gurus have used the same word to mean different things. This is primarily because the Bani is in Raag and Taal form. To fully understand, we need to look at the context in which the Bani has come. 

My humble understanding is that depending upon the intelect of the person with whom the conversation is taking place Guru ji have in their way tried to simplify the message. At times Guru jis' had to say that they are Gurus in order to assert the message. This is where these Agents of Kalyug are propegating their own sects, have taken advantage. Little do they know or understand what they are getting into. They have become Satguru by name and not by Character. How can one who himself is lost tell others the way.

I feel it would be helpful to know whom Guru ji has conversed with to help our understanding. For example Guru Nanak Dev ji conversed with two type of groups. The Sidhas, who were highly intelectual people with proven mastery and indepth knowledge of spirituality but were stranded from merging with God or those that had no sense of direction. They had the energy to progess but did not know the route, and needed direction.

As a generalisation you will note that Bani gets serious and down to bussiness with the message as you go beyond the second half of SGGS. This bani is much harder to understand therefore, if i may say so, the conversation must be with intellectuals.

This is my humble understanding that i share with you.


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## simpy (May 3, 2007)

*Respected Ekmudafir Ajnabi Ji,*

*thanks a lot for sharing the knowledge and understanding.* *And a humble request, please keep sharing* *whenever possible * *.*

* Let us become Satyug de agent  *
*just kidding........ Apna Agent ta har vakat naal hai, har paasey, sabh de andar...... Gur Mere Sang Sdaa Hai Naalay*

*forgive me please*


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