# Are Brahmgyanis For Real?



## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 20, 2010)

The very fact that I receive email all the time about this question means there is _Jagartee_... an  awakening among the Sikhs. We have been fooled all this while simply  because we allowed ourselves to be fooled. We can be fooled only by  those we "trust"... a stranger wouldn't be able to fool us... and those  we trusted are our own.

We learnt no lesson from our Gurus... cannot we see so clearly that  our Gurus in spite of being Nirankaar... never even used their Names... much  less titles... they used NUMBERS... Mehla 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9. Again and  again they addressed themselves as Neech, Neechan andar neech  jaat... dhadee of Akal Purakh, Dog of the Creator... they sang with people  like Bhai Mardana Ji, they ate with people like Bhai Lalo Ji... they traveled on FOOT like the common people. But when we are reminded of  this... such a storm is raised... just look at the huge outcry over the  Babbu Mann song... Ek Baba Nanak see jis ne  turkeh saree dunia ghaah  tee.. EK aaj Babeh han jisne LAL battee audi gaddee te laatee !! This  song depicting REALITY hurt where it matters... hence the LOUD CRIES of  PROTEST and death threats.

Gurbani is crystal clear. Even the GURU never attach any TITLES to  his name... but our "parcharaks attach so many titles... each more  grandiose than the other... Brahmgyani, Pooran Brahmgyani, Sri 1008  Brahmgyani, Maha Purash, Maha Purakh, Gurmatt Maartand and so on and  so on... ALL 100% of our GREATEST SIKHS in Sikh history are BHAI... but  modern Punjab is as full of Maha Gyanis and MahaBrahmgyanis as numerous  as the SAND grains on the beaches of Hawaii. But then Gurbani declares  so clearly... Rahio SANT me Toll... SAADH bahutereh dittheh !! a Highly  Realised Aatma like Bhagat Kabir Ji, who has so much Gurbani in  SGGS... is saying that I FAILED TO FIND EVEN ONE "SANT" ...but saw many  many FAKE SAADHS... BHEKHIS... but we ordinary Sikhs today can see Sants  in THOUSANDS ?? How can that be ?? Have we become so highly realised  souls even ABOVE Bhagat Kabir Ji ?? Have our eyes become so sharp ??

GURU JI gave us the GURBANI... the PIO Daddeh da Khazanah (The Treasure of Our Ancestors)... to  read... Vichaar... ponder over... understand and APPLY in our daily Lives so  that we can become KHALSA... but we ABDICATED this responsibility... we  gave up our role of GUARDIANS for the Khazanah (Treasure)... the AMRIT of GURBANI... we  placed the MILK in the care of BHEKHIS... and then these BHEKHIS drank  all the MILK... and gave us "water"... and told us... ONLY we can DRINK  MILK... only we UNDERSTAND Gurbani... its too difficult for you... you just  listen to me banging on the Chamta and Dholki... sing along this two  liners, Ucah dar babeh nanak Da... Mein Sobha sunn ke aiya... ucah dar  babeh nanak da... its SIMPLE and EASY... Gurbani is sanskrit... its brij  bhasha, its so difficult... its so sacred... it must be kept wrapped up at  all times... blah blah blah... YOU JUST matha tek as much of your earnings  to me as Kaar SEWA and go home... WE will take care of the SGGS. Let us  Brahmgyanis do all this kirtan... kathas etc.. its too difficult for  you... you go earn money...

After a few decades... the SIKHS cant do any of the simplest jobs  without these paid "Gyanis... Brahmgyanis... etc... Any  "need"... sickness...  happiness..<wbr>. new house... death... etc. etc. SIKHS go  RUNNING around for a GYANI JI... to do parkash... ardass,  kirtan... samapati... parshaad... <wbr>bhog... a SIKH CANNOT DO anything at  all. THIS behaviour is in Direct DISOBEDIENCE to GURU JI... He TOLD us... NO  Priests... no paid brahmins... a SIKH is in DIRECT touch with WAHEGURU !!  But we forgot all that...and NOW the BILLION DEMAND MILK..and..Badaams,  keju nuts..desi ghee, best shampoos, best soaps, best cars, best  bedrooms in the house, and THOUSANDS in CASH..to perform akhand  paath..ardass..kirtan..and we grumble..but we pay !! because we DONT  KNOW HOW any more !!! And we PAY..even though we KNOW many don't do the  paath..they skip pages by the bundle..they don't do ardass... they do  kirtan of Kachi banis... they never come or come late... or leave  early... they rush through to go to other programmes..samagams....we have  no choice...

And we became so awaeselleh..IGNORANT..that now we get Fairy  tales..Tall tales..kathas full of Waddeh baba ji right in front of GURU  GRANTH JI and Guru nanak JI Sahib..a Mere INSAAN is being addressed as  WADDEH Baba Ji..Maha Purakh Ji..and we keep quiet..we hear that there  are TUNNELS in the Himalays that Lead to Special Sarovars in the Tibetan Mountains where Shaheed Singhs like baba deep Singh Ji, Bhai mani Singh  ji , bhai taru Singh ji, baba Banda Singh ji etc are all  WAITING... wearing just kacheras and dastaars... ready to March through the  Tunnel and emerge into PUNJAB to Make KHALSA RAAJ up to Mecca  Medina...as Foretold by Guru nanak ji in Karnee Namah!! Guru Gobind  Singh ji in "his PREVIOUS LIFE" di penance but ON THIS EARTH  (Hemkunt)...and Now these shaheeds are all SOULS without bodies..but  they wear kacheras, dastaars, live in the tibetan mountaisn, eat from  the Sarovar...and have weapons they used before..and to RETURN to earth  they will use this Tunnel and not be born again...

And so the Nataki chapters will go on and on..until we wake up..and  take Guru ji advise..and begin to READ Gurbani..vichaar  gurbani..understand Gurbani..and apply it...then and then ONLY will our  lives Change for the better...otherwise be prepared to be  ENTERTAINED.......Hollywoods Avataar in the Cinema..and the Sant Jis  Chaubis Avataars in the Gurdawra. WE DESERVE what we GET.


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## BhagatSingh (Apr 20, 2010)

The first part of the post reminds me of the last part of this clip, Monty Python's The Life of Brian:
YouTube - Funniest bit of 'life of brian'


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## seeker3k (Apr 20, 2010)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> The very fact that I receive email all the time about this question means there is _Jagartee_... an awakening among the Sikhs. We have been fooled all this while simply because we allowed ourselves to be fooled. We can be fooled only by those we "trust"... a stranger wouldn't be able to fool us... and those we trusted are our own.
> 
> We learnt no lesson from our Gurus... cannot we see so clearly that our Gurus in spite of being Nirankaar... never even used their Names... much less titles... they used NUMBERS... Mehla 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9. Again and again they addressed themselves as Neech, Neechan andar neech jaat... dhadee of Akal Purakh, Dog of the Creator... they sang with people like Bhai Mardana Ji, they ate with people like Bhai Lalo Ji... they traveled on FOOT like the common people. But when we are reminded of this... such a storm is raised... just look at the huge outcry over the Babbu Mann song... Ek Baba Nanak see jis ne turkeh saree dunia ghaah tee.. EK aaj Babeh han jisne LAL battee audi gaddee te laatee !! This song depicting REALITY hurt where it matters... hence the LOUD CRIES of PROTEST and death threats.
> 
> ...


 

We learnt no lesson from our Gurus... cannot we see so clearly that our Gurus in spite of being Nirankaar... never 

I dont understan what you mean by that gurus were Nirakaar. Is it mean that the gurus were not human? Nirakaar is used for God if I can understand the bani. No human can be Nirakaar.

We sikhs believe that we are not Hindus. If we are not Hindus then why any Sikh can be Brahmgyani? Brahma is Hindu devta. W not call them Nanak gyani? We canot have it both ways not be Hindu yet be Brahmgyani.
Many people dont like to call Harmander because it means Hari/s Vishnu mander. Many are calling Darwar Sahib. Darwar is muslim name not sikhs. But we should not use Hindu's name but it is ok to call Darwar Sahib. 
It mean the gurus who named it Harmander wrong. Can gurus be wrong?
If we want to save the Sikhism we should get rid of the stupid rituals and idol worship. We are just two face condeming and worship like Hindus.


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## Rupinder.Singh (Apr 21, 2010)

Thank you very much Gyani ji for raising such an intersting topic. Please dont be offended, I respect you very much and your thoughts.

But to start with, I would like to know when and where you got the title "Giyani Ji" and how is it different from title "Brahmgyani"  Now, continuing on the topic, i would say NO Leader is a leader, without any followers, that means followers give birth to leaders 

similarly

These sants, brahmgyani's Maha purkhs are mere Human beings, provided Blind faith followers dont follow them.

One man (brahmgyani, sant, mahapurkh in this case)  being smart to fool around can be justified, but how can we justify millions of followers of these smart men, who accept to be fooled.

With the spread of internet, and other elctronic media, Sikh sangat is surely getting educated on thier own religion, and it surely can be termed as Jaagriti which is good for Sikh, Sikhi and Sikh way of life. But we should also be aware that anti-Gurmat elements also have same level of access to the media. This can only be balanced through competetive efforts by Gurmat elements so that we have positive outcome in the end.

We should never expect that these anti-Gurmat elements are gonna die out with time. In my opinion, it is God's way of maintaing the balance. If anti-gurmat is gone, we loose the challenge and thus new chances of learning from life experinces will also disappear. So anti-Gurmat is just as good as snake's poison is used to create antibodies to cure snake bite. Only diffrence is how we handle/use that poison.

The last point is about harmander sahib, Darbar sahib, and other names from different languages. My opinion is that a source of light spreads light, it should not really matter to us what name we give to it and in which language, if we can use that light to explore and discover new avenues it is serving the purpose or we can keep on fighting and waste time arguing my language is better than yours. Choice is ours.

Our Guru ji's used all kinds of languages to spread the divine word, and there are proofs of that in SGGS, so why are we fighting on names and languages? 

In the end I would say "When Faith becomes blind faith.. rituals are born"

Bhul Chuk Maaf ji

"Almighty leads pure ones, Victory belongs to Almighty" ikonkaar

Rupinder Singh 

PS: ha ha ha I used smilies with full heart


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 21, 2010)

Rupinder Singh Ji.
Gurfateh.

Respect begets respect..its mutual. I love the Name your parents gave you.

1. The *Gyani* in my name is *NOT* the type associated with *Brahmgyani*....its a simple Academic Degree _ Hons in Punjabi Langauge similar to BA ons..BSC Hons, MBBS etc etc. Anyone willing to spend about three years studying Punjabi, Linguistics, Sikh religion, girmatt, gurbani, poetry, prose etc can get this Degree from Punjab University. Many thousands have it and the BEST ones like Gyani Ditt Singh of Singh Sabha lehr, Gyani Hira Singh dard etc got it from Punjab University Lahore before the Partition.

2. Secondly..today..any person who has the remotest connection with a Gurdawara..be it playing Tabla, kirtan, paath, etc etc is also called a GYANI. Even a utensil washing sevaddar may be addressed as Gyani ji...and also anyone who looks remotely..religious...gol puggh, chola, gatra kirpan etc...also get this "title".

3. Harmander...as used in GURBANI of SGGS was first used by GURU AMARDASS JI....as in "harmander Har sajjiah...this is for the HUMAN BODY. Our SREER is made by Waheguru to RESIDE WITHIN. Its HIS mandir.  

Those who call the Harmander sahib constructed by Guru ramdass Ji, completed by Guur Arjun ji for the paraksh of AAD GRANTH (SGGS) as "Har(i) mandir are WRONG..there is no BIHAREE..its a SIHAREE which denotes Capital Har...for CREATOR. Its is Not Vishnus mandir..or the Hindu haris mandir...its  named after the CREATOR. (But DONT make the mistake of beleiving that the CREATOR ONLY RESIDES in harmandar sahib Amrtisar..then you will find it very difficult to reoncile yourself with what Guru nanak ji went to MECCA to tell the Kazis..that ALLAH doesnt RESIDE in just One Place !! In GURMATT..the CREATOR is EVERYWHERE.

Darbar means COURT..and since its our GURU thta is in COURT..its perfectly OK to call any place where GURU JI is Paraksh as Sacha Patshah as DARBAAR SAHIB.

5. Your point about the Smart oen "brahmgyani" fooling ..BUT why millions can be fooled ?
Guru nanak ji went to Hardwaar....MILLIOINS who were fooled were there..
Till Today..even MORE MILLIONS who are still fooled..gather there every 12 years to stop the evils of a natural happening Eclipse of the Sun. Its the 3rd millineum..yet billions beleive the eclipse is a bad thing...must bathe in the Ganga to stop its influence.. Guur nanak jis teachings...presence...had little effect...so NUMBERS are no proof of anything...in fact the greater the number..more will be FOOLED..becasue they beleive...OH..so many CANNOT BE WRONG !! ha Ha that is precisely Right..the MORE a person can FOOL..the BIGGER he becomes.

Thank you for a refreshing view...:thumbsupp:


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## Rupinder.Singh (Apr 21, 2010)

Thank you very much Giani ji,

Well explained

Thanks

Rupinder Singh


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## jasi (Apr 21, 2010)

S S AKAL GIANI  JI.

 Practically I am out of words to add  or express myself with words to  appreciate your most open facts to wake up our community at large.


 We have been increasingly made so much dependent that only priest we  need to do path because he knows marayadas or other  rituals and prayers  on behalf of us will go more faster to Akal Purkh where as our basic  teaching has been that Sikh can directly pray to Akal purkh than having  any mediators.

 We stopped every morning reading  a simple Jap Ji sahib path which is so simple  to understand by all with basic high school level education or no  educations if some one just listen from many sources...

 We became all in the hands of self made Babas and our  leaders failed in their leadership to stand up to the fundamental  Principal of Guru Nanak Dev ji  coming eradicate all cast system and sent a message to the world that  all human race is one except many are known by their deeds.

 Then GURU Gobidh SUNGH JIi laid a final stones  to eradicate the a cast system  by inviting all to join  SIKH faith regardless of any color,cast,gender and made them KHALSA(PURE  ONE) .


The title was added as a SINGH to people who accepted the call of GURU GOBINDH SINGH JI to join to be  known as KHALSA (pure one). 

We reversed back again to cast  system by adding surnames and start differentiating our selves calling   other Majbi Singh or that by sur-names.This is the pictures today   and another  one is just emerging by Sehej Dhari  which we never heard before.
Even  Guru Dawars are being separated on the base  of who goes their based on  cast system.

 We have been adopting the same cancer (cast system) which discriminated  count less  human beings by Brahman Wad practices.

 Great awareness is needed to all Sikhs especially in the urban area  ,still people do not know what is the power of casting VOTE in any  democratic society. 
To elect  a wrong leader the society is bound to get bad leadership  and get bad decision to protect our right and life styles..

 When public elected that leader  got in power, passes the law which are  not what public agree upon,then the basic understanding to be careful  casting any vote to get him elected again.n.
This is democratic  procedure. 

Instead what is happening in illiterate societies some of the self made  leader gets the opportunity to lead the grieving people to large protest  (MORCHA) to even to the extent they can sacrifices their lives if they  are not heard by the democratically elected leaders.They will fight like  they are fighting against Mugal Forcre.

All exercise of right can be exercised when the next election comes to  elect the right leaders with his past performances 

IF THERE IS ENOUGH AWARENESS TAUGHT BY LEARNING A BAD CHOICE TO ELECT A  BAD LEADERS. Every one will cast their vote more carefully to the  leaders who has a platform what the constituents looking for. 

 Then so called self made  leaders will create a protest march (MORCHA)  agaist the same leader who was rightly elected by same people who are  ready to sacrifice their lives to oust him non democratic ways by taking  laws in their hands as if they are under MUGAl RAJ.

 Politician will be the last person to educate the masses the power of  voting which can topple any government without firing a single bullet.

 Awareness -Awareness .

We need every where so all Sikhs or followers of  GURU NANAK DEV JI 's to understand SIKH philosophy and  teachings. 

 I have not seen a single religion or faith where people pray every day for all  humanity like SIKHS when they pray anywhere ,any time.

 -TERE BHANE SARBAT KA BHALLA  "sikhism"

 -BIGGEST DEMOCRACIES HAS RULES AND LAW ENSHRINED IN THEIR
  CHARTER OF RIGHTS THAT ALL CITIZENS HAS EQUAL RIGHTS OF FREE 
  SPEECH,ORIGINS,COLORS GENDERS.CAST SYSTEM.

 -GURU NANA DEV JI ENSHRINED ALL THESE RIGHTS 500  YEARS 
   BACK     "Sikhism".

Jaspi

BHULL CHUK MAF.








Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> The very fact that I receive email all the time about this question means there is _Jagartee_... an  awakening among the Sikhs. We have been fooled all this while simply  because we allowed ourselves to be fooled. We can be fooled only by  those we "trust"... a stranger wouldn't be able to fool us... and those  we trusted are our own.
> 
> We learnt no lesson from our Gurus... cannot we see so clearly that  our Gurus in spite of being Nirankaar... never even used their Names... much  less titles... they used NUMBERS... Mehla 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9. Again and  again they addressed themselves as Neech, Neechan andar neech  jaat... dhadee of Akal Purakh, Dog of the Creator... they sang with people  like Bhai Mardana Ji, they ate with people like Bhai Lalo Ji... they traveled on FOOT like the common people. But when we are reminded of  this... such a storm is raised... just look at the huge outcry over the  Babbu Mann song... Ek Baba Nanak see jis ne  turkeh saree dunia ghaah  tee.. EK aaj Babeh han jisne LAL battee audi gaddee te laatee !! This  song depicting REALITY hurt where it matters... hence the LOUD CRIES of  PROTEST and death threats.
> 
> ...


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## SaintSoldier1699 (Apr 21, 2010)

Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji,

Excellent post, and firm response to the derawad/babawad that has been spreading like a virus for years and will carry on due to ignorance of Sikh's about their own faith and teaching!  

The biggest thing is getting people out of the mental attitude that they "cant understand" Gurbani or that a man in a white pag and outfit has a superior presense on earth than them.

I saw this video yesterday about a Singh who is trying to take Mann Pehova to court but these guys have contacts in high places so, are untouchable in Punjab.  It was quite distressing to see what this so called baba and his chela's have done to this Singh...  (Also, this is the same baba that was given a clear chit from our good old jathedars from the SGPC - another comforting piece of news - not!)

YouTube - Sant Baba Mann Singh

God bless all with common sense to not be fooled by these pekhi's! 

Avtar Singh


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## Simranman1 (Apr 21, 2010)

*SSA,*
*1.Is it possible to assertain the proper meaning for all these  terms, eg. giani, brahmgiani, mahapursh, & etc?*
*2.Is it possible to test for and or against these terms?*
*Much Obliged 4 the Thread.*
*Thx.*


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## barfi (Apr 21, 2010)

There are two different schools of thought. One combines the values  and  Embodiment of what our Guru Sahibs taught with a basic grounding and  working our  life fwd in the material world. 

 the other school of thought delvs deeper into mysticism! Like the  sufi  order of muslims or the Nuns and Monks Of Christianity and Buddhism. The  diff is  in Christianity and Buddhism the socio economic realities push people  further  away and confine religion into a spiritual sphere. In Sikhism religion  and the  world go hand in hand.  There are countless  bad babbey but there are  good babbey like baba Attar Singh Mastuana. 

 The bad air is coming from the Punjabi community why are we  allowing  ourselves to be duped in a way that is not happening to Christians  muslims and  Buddhists?

 because we want an easy life! a real Baba Like Randhir Singh (AKJ)  Bhai  Rama Singh will tell you point blank u want to better your life set a  program of  Nitnem Mool Mantar and Naam. WHat do we want to do? Chase the best form  of  material life we can exhausting our energy when it comes to Realising  sikhi  through stages.

 The protest within th sikh community on babbey is a wake up call  but at the  same time we must not forget that there are a minority of Good Babbey  who have  given immense contributions to the SIkh world Harnam SIngh  Rampurkherawale Attar  SIngh Isher Singh etc. 

 we may not agree in different jathebandis but the way fwd is to  accept  differences the way in which Bhai Rama Singh (Akj) would lovingly do  seva  anywhere irrespective of whether one group was pro or anti sant.

 The time now is an Era of advancement, access to tools to better  our lives.  The only way to make a diff is to live that life and let it speak for  itself. 10  people in one family will not think alike, n that is what the SIkh  family is. I  may respect ATtar SIngh for his contribution to the SIkh Panth and basic  SRM but  i may also lovingly embrace all my othr sikh brethren who are inclined  to  something diff. WHo am i to judge?

 in one family 1 child will race to be on top like a SHer Punjabi,  another  child will be calm meditative and drawn into a spiritual realm. This is  nature  we cant help it we have to understand the variety in our own mahol  family  community systems. Otherwise we are dividing further


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 21, 2010)

a BRahmgyani SANT JI did all that to an AMRITDHAREE SIKH ....a "Brahmgyani" who has so many Khalsa Singhs willing to do and die for him..refusing to see the reality...as Guru Ji declares..Call them NOt.."Blind" whose physical eyes have been damaged..Call them BLIND..who have perfect physical eyes with 20/20 vision..BUT REFUSE TO SEE !!

To recollect..this same Brahmgyani Sant ji sells "amrit" in  Mineral Water-Bottles..exported to overseas markets like Dubai.....with instructions to ..."just pour one amrit bottle into a well to make a lot of amrit...with such a "amrit in a Bottle" who needs Panj Piayaras ??


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## Simranman1 (Apr 21, 2010)

*SSA Barfi,*
*Thank you 4 the reply, very nice.*
*Now on reading the SGGS, we read mention of manmukh to satgure, and all stages in between, as outlined in japji, with quite a concise meaning. This means that each stage is testable, doesn't it?*
*Much obliged. Thanx v-much.:blushh:*


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## jasi (Apr 21, 2010)

S S AKAL JI.

The core of the issue is that all Sikhs know the basic reality what Guru Nanak Dev Ji has blessed all of us and every one firmly have a faith in our Gurus.

But when these self made Gurus manuplate all kinds of their sweet tactics to get these masses to follow them . that is where the people need to have complete awareness taught by the learned priests in the  local Guru Dwaras.

Like old saying "what goes around ,comes around". The time is not that far when all these mahapursh .mahagiani,has to face the consequences by the same followers when truth will come to confront them.THESE PAKHANDIES ARE USUALLY VERY MUCH VIOLENT AND THEIR AIDS TO PROTECT THEM.  SO LET THE NATURE TAKE ITS COURSE TO LOOK AFTER THEM.

Though nothing is about to change without any damages to Sikhism respect but truth will prevail.

The more we keep on making aware the Sikh community to come back to the same plate form what Guru Ji created for all of us.

............KHUAR HOIn SABH MILANGE.............................

I WISH ALL MY SIKH BROTHERN AND SITERS,MOTHERS, FATHERS,CHILDERENS TO BE STRONG TO STAY CONNECTED TO THE TRUTH AND SIKHISM WILL CONTINUE TO FLOURISH AS LONG AS THERE IS CIVILIZATIONS EXISTING. 

"...........ADH SACH,JUGAD SACH,HABHI SACH.NANAK HOSI BHI SACH".. is eternal facts

THERE IS PERFECT EXAMPLE TO REMEMBER WHEN SIKHS WERE TOLD WHO WILL BE THEIR NEXT GURU FOR THEM. THE ANSWER WAS THAT  YOU CAN FIND HIM IN  BABA BAKALA.

FORTUNATLY WHEN MAKHAN LUBANA CAME OUT FROM TROUBLED WATER TIDE HE WENT TO BABA BAKALA TO DONATE PROMISED 5 ASHRAFIES TO THE GURU.

BUT TO HIS SURPRISE THERE WERE OVER 40 BABAS MADE THIER PREWSENCE TO BE WORSHIPPED .

BEING CONFUSED BY SO MANY BABAS ,DECIDED TO TEST EACH OF THE BY GIVING ONE ONE ASHRAFI SO THE REAL GURU WILL SPEAK UP ABOUT THE REAL PLEDGED HE MADE.

SAME THING HAPPENED GURU TEG BAHUDAR JI POLITY HOLD HIS WRIST 
WHEN HE PLACED ONE ASHRAFI ON GURU'S FEET AND GURU TEG BAHUDUR ASKED  BHAI YOU PROMISED ME 5 AND HOW COME YOU ARE GIVING US ONE ONLY.

WITH HAPPINESS HE WENT ON THE ROOF OF THAT HOUSE AND STARTED SHOUTING TO THE WORLD "GURU LADHO RE ,GURU LADHO RE"

TRUTH IS ALWAYS ETERNAL AND HERE TO STAY FOR EVER.


AFTER WHAT GURU TEG BAHAUDUR SAHIB GONE THROUGH RIGHT FROM AGE 18 AND UP IS SELF EXPLANATORY.

MY INNER WISH I PRAY FOR GREAT LOVE TO PREVAILS AMONG US ALL AND USE OUR BUDHI HOW TO LIVE IN DEMOCRACY WHICH WE ARE MOST FORTUNATE TO HAVE ONE IN INDIA. 

EVERY YOUNG MAN MAKE HIS DUTY TO MAKE SIKH COMMUNITY AWARE OF THE IMPORTANCE OF CASTING VOTES ESPECIALLY IN VILLAGES.

ELECT A LEADER WHO IS ACCOUNTABLE TO PROTECTS YOUR RIGHTS AND YOU WILL ENJOY THE ESSENCE OF DEMOCRACY WITHOUT GIVING ANY KINDS OF SHAHEEDE IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

JASPI.






sphuling said:


> *SSA Barfi,*
> *Thank you 4 the reply, very nice.*
> *Now on reading the SGGS, we read mention of manmukh to satgure, and all stages in between, as outlined in japji, with quite a concise meaning. This means that each stage is testable, doesn't it?*
> *Much obliged. Thanx v-much.:blushh:*


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## Simranman1 (Apr 22, 2010)

*SSA Jaspi,*
*Again,Thank you 4 the reply, very nice. you miss the point, or only partialy understand it, you mention the test of two of the Gurus, trherefor there are tests.*
*Now on reading the SGGS, we read mention of manmukh to satgure, and all stages in between, as outlined in japji, with quite a concise meaning. This means that each stage is testable, doesn't it?*
*Much obliged. Thanx v-much.*


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## jasi (Apr 22, 2010)

SS AKAL JI.

My humble apology what we I meant (test) means when Makhan Lubana 
encounter so many pretending gurus put up their Deras,  he decided to donate one Ashrifi to all thinking the real Guru will know the truth about his isoriginal amount of pledge.


So he finally recognized Guru Teg Bahudar JI.


jaspi




sphuling said:


> *SSA Jaspi,*
> *Again,Thank you 4 the reply, very nice. you miss the point, or only partialy understand it, you mention the test of two of the Gurus, trherefor there are tests.*
> *Now on reading the SGGS, we read mention of manmukh to satgure, and all stages in between, as outlined in japji, with quite a concise meaning. This means that each stage is testable, doesn't it?*
> *Much obliged. Thanx v-much.*


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 22, 2010)

Garud Paran says...

Donate a Cow to a Brahmin..You will get 100,000 COWS..in HEAVEN.
Not satisfied with that..the wily robber adds the following conditions...
Its better IF the Cow is of a Very GOOD BREED, gives  a LOT of MILK..is healthy...
Its even better IF you cover the Horns with GOLD...its Feet with SILVER..its Back with COPPER, its Tail with PEARLS.....

ANY WONDER then WHY our MODERN BRAHMINS....drool ??? THIS is the POSITION they wnat in SIKHI....that is why they adorn themsleves with such GRANDIOSE TITLES and tell us FAKE TALES form these PURANS....and INSTILL the PURANS instead of GURBANI of SGGS becasue Gurbani REJECTS and DESTROYS all these Fake Tales and Rituals..

AS long as we continue sleeping and letting these fake brahmgyanis TELL US what to do..instead of US Taking the toruble to LISTEN to the GURU FIRSTHAND...we will contineu to sink into the Brahmin QUICKSAND....  BRAHMIN of the Graud Pran is now:thumbsupp:....Brahm  (in ) gyani..BRAHMINGYANI....this is a combination of OLD Sherab in NEW BOTTLE !! recognise and be aware..

An EXAMPLE of one is given below...:

GARUD PURAN also says..PUT GHEE into a DEAD man's MOUTH...When you next attend a SIKH Funeral...watch carefully....as the "sikhs" rush to put GHEE into the dead BODY's MOUTH !!....Watch carefully...many many other RITUALS...all taken from this Garud Puran...

More to follow....:veryhappymunda1:


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## jasi (Apr 22, 2010)

SS AKAL. Giani Gernail Singh Ji.


You just have written all so true words as if it came out from my soul.The problem is this trend of falling into trap with these self made Babas started developing since last 15 years on high numbers.They (BABAS)targeted specific societies who are neither educated nor rich enough to understand.

All the masses has initial knowledge of Sikh practices that there is no place of rituals or ghost or any other dogmatic issues except one God.

Most important and vital sources can be established by having educated Priest to give PARCHAR at grass routs in the Guru Dawars in each village or cities.

AWARENESS -AWARENESS AWARENESS IS THE KEY TO EDUCATE THE COMMUNITY OF THEIR RIGHTS TO AVOID ELECTING A LEADER LIKE INDRA GANDHI OR TO START OTHER MOVEMENT IN PUNJAB BY RELIGIOUS FANATICS WITHOUT  HAVE ANY SOLID PLATE FORM TO ACCOMPLISH THE GOAL..

WE ALL KNOW THAT THESE POLITICIAN WILL NEVER LIKE TO EDUCATE PEOPLE ABOUT THEIR RIGHTS TO LOOSE ANY VOTE.

More and more rituals are being adapted by public at large back from hinduism. 

Again this has become #1 problem and these Babas prey on poor people to lure to their Deras by touts roaming all over to spread rumors that this Baba that Baba  can fulfill all one's  needs by praying on behalf of them to God....

This cancer will continue to more wide spread then it will be too late.

Jaspi


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 23, 2010)

Here is another young man with serious doubts...about Graud Puran kathawachkas and Gurbani connection..

READ ON:

Dear Cyber Sangat,

 Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh ||

 For the last few days, it was coming in my mind to share this message  with Sangat. I am not a giani or a missionary or a learned person. So I  am asking for help of yours. Many people sought my views regarding his  Katha but I did not have answers.

*Bhai Thakur (Singh) cited an example from Sikh history and he quoted Guru  Hargobind sahib saying, “ Garud Puran is also true”. Either Bhai Thakur  Singh does not know what Grud Puran says or he does not know Gurbani .  For those who do not know anything about grud puran, it is a dialogue  between Garud(a bird of the size of a pigeon) and his rider Vishnoo. All  the Hindu rituals after someone’s death are based on this. Those who  are interested can read it from the website*.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/<wbr>hin/gpu/

 For those who are interested, this website also contains a book on  Sikh History by Darothy Field, a rare book for download. 



 Garud Puran mentions about Sharadas which are ridiculed in Gurbani.
  (Without Sharadas no one can go to heaven, there are  ten avatars namely mach(fish), kachh(tortoise), varah, nar singh,  vaaman, ramchand, sri krishan, budh and kalgi whose name should be  chanted. First sharad happens on anniversary should be done on ekadsi.)

 There are pinds(a roll made from barley or rice) which are donated.  The soul walks everyday 247 Yojanas to reach Jampuri. There are several  villages which appear on the way where soul is tortured. There is also a  vetrany or Betrany river whose size is 400 koss wide, in which only  blood flows. To cross this river one need to donate a cow to a Brahman .  Garud Puran says that Cow should be black or yellow color[ I have not  seen any yellow colored cow yet] , it should give plenty of milk, her  horns should be clamped with gold, her feet with silver, back with  copper and her tail should be tied with pure pearls. Garud Puran further  says If you donate one cow to a Brahman, you will get one hundred  thousands of cows in return. If someone eats Brahmans money he/she will  stay in hell for sixty thousand years. Gurmat condemns such false  stories. Guru Granth says about this.

http://www.srigranth.org/<wbr>servlet/gurbani.gurbani?<wbr>Action=KeertanPage&K=358&L=10&<wbr>id=16435

 Where Grud Purana says  various things including ghee  and panj ratni should be inserted into dead person’s mouth, Guru Granth  says this.
http://www.srigranth.org/<wbr>servlet/gurbani.gurbani?<wbr>Action=KeertanPage&K=648&L=12&<wbr>id=28181
http://www.srigranth.org/<wbr>servlet/gurbani.gurbani?<wbr>Action=KeertanPage&K=1160&L=9&<wbr>id=49870

 Can someone ask Bhai Thakur Singh, why did he lie in Sangat? He might  have read that story from somewhere, but it is our duty to be careful  when telling such stories to the Sangat. Some writers have written Guru  Gobind Singh distributed Bhang and opium to his followers, do we believe  that?.

 Regards,
 Jasbir Singh(Sydney, Australia)


Note: ALL those Pind Puran, diwas lighted, shardhs, b{censored}es. Kambals and chadras, on the dead body.etc etc and other RITUALS from these Purans have been Categorically REJECTED by SGGS and REAFFIRMED AS REJECTED in the SRM....YET MOST SIKHS carry on doing them...because MOST babas and Brahmgyianis are there to ensure these are NOT REJECTED !!  WATER...STIRRED..NOT SHAKEN !! ???


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## sssobti (Apr 24, 2010)

Respected gyani ji,
                         Guru fateh,
No words to appreciate your views on so called self proclaimed brahmgianis and sants.Every awakned & blessed soul shall be greatfull to u for highlighting these points on net. I feel it is just ur boundless love emotions,for our great guru sahibans,which made u to call them nirankars. This goes against the basic logic of our preachers.Is it not better to call them REALLY BLESSED AKARS SEND BY THE ONLY NIRANKAR TO AWAKEN US.
              Guru Rakha, & BHUL CHUK MAFF,
                                           Sukhvinder singh


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 24, 2010)

Guru Piayario jios,
Sukwinder singh Ji,

When I use the word "Nirnakaar" in association with the earthly sroops of the Ten Gurus shaib, one Guru Jyot now residing in SGGS....and what Guru Amardass Ji ahs written..bani nirankaar hai, Bani Guru Hai, Bani Amrit Hai...i mean it that way. The ten sroops brought us Nirankaar's Divine Message..and it is now available to us for eternity in SGGS ( although thta sroop is also earthly made of paper and ink etc, just as the earlier earthly sroops were made of the elements everything here is made of.

Guru Ji has laready written in japji Sahib what Nirankaar is...He never comes in any form...and in the Sohila shabad...gagan mein thaal aartee Guru Ji then declares that He is NOT thta far away either..He is everywhere too...its up to us to KNOW HIM.

GURU NANAK broke the CHAINS of AVTAARWAAD that bound earlier religion - Hinduism. Guur Ji BROKE us away form DEH..the Human BODY..and these Modern Brahm-in-Gyanis among us want us to RE-CHAIN us to the DEH...worship of the Human BODY...so that they cna then begin milking the worshippers of the human body via.."I am the WAY"..listen and do what i say....

Its also not that true that the Babas target "poor" people...the Poor people are just for NUMBERS to impress others..the actual targets are the MALIK BHAGOS...as they can supply them with contacts, money etc. Today i just came across a Malik Bhago who was instructed by a Brham-in-Gyani to do 250 Japji sahibs to win his upcoming court case as time is rather short to do a sehaj paath (actually Baba has a prior arrangement elsewhere and wnated a way out)....and the Malik Bhago contacted me to see IF I could get my Gurbani studnets to help out..She told me..Gyani Ji, get me 25 students to do 10 Japji Sahibs for me..by MONDAY and I will pay them $10 each. NOW just by CHANCE..IF this MB does win her case...it will be Pay abck time for the Baba on hsi next viist..IF she LOSES..then the blame will flal on soem poor student who.." must have mispronounced some word..didnt do the paath properly..in fact there are 10,001 excuses..." The FACT that this MB DIDNT GET PREGNANT with a Male child..after she did the 40 day chlisa..of 5 sukhmani shaibs daily..getting up at 4 am daily, sitting on a white chadar, and ABSTAINING FROM all sexual relations with her husband at all times for the 40 days..blah blah blah..and the Baba said..You did it all very well..but your husband lusted after you one Morning..his dirty mind spoiled the chalisa...and the hubby wife are now not on speaking terms....( and I have a sneaky feeling the baba is preparing his own FIELD for SOWING .............??? Baddy me..for doubting a Brahm-in-Gyani !!. This Lady comes form  a Kirtan paath doing family which had SGGS parkash at home since ages...To ME it looks like they have been living in *UTTER DARKNESS* inspite of having the *GYAAN DA* *SOORAJ* right there insde the house....and they are not about to do anything to benefit from the SGGS any time soon...THANKS to the BRAHMGYANIS they adore so much.


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## harbansj24 (Apr 24, 2010)

Gyani ji,

Even a highly evolved soul like Bhai Vir Singh ji was known as a "Gurmukh" to his countless admirers.
In fact a well written and illuminating biography written by his lifetime associate Gyani Maha Singh is titled "Gurmukh Jeevan"

However there are some rare deserving Gursikhs who are called as Sants by others. One such  example is Sant Sangat Singh of Kamalia. He was a pukka Arya Samaji earlier but he came in contact with Bhai Vir Singh ji and under his influence he became so enamoured with Sikhi that he became a Amritdhari and did pure prachar of bani of SGGS and Naam. There is an enchanting chapter in "Gurmukh Jeevan" titled "Gurmukh Mel" (meaning meeting of Gurmukhs) which describes the first meeting of these souls in great detail. Bhai Vir Singh ji himself started calling him as Sant Sangat Singh. He was one of the important figures of the Singh sabha movement.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 24, 2010)

harbansj24 said:


> Gyani ji,
> 
> Even a highly evolved soul like Bhai Vir Singh ji was known as a "Gurmukh" to his countless admirers.
> In fact a well written and illuminating biography written by his lifetime associate Gyani Maha Singh is titled "Gurmukh Jeevan"
> ...



Harbans Ji,
Gurfateh.

I have absolutley NO PROBLEM with those and all others who are GENUINE. What I am trying to do is "educate" the General Sikhs that ..Place the SGGS First and Foremost...try and read, vichaar, apply that..and IF someone comes along who can assist you ALONG THAT PATH..then very well take his help...
I have been helped along this Path..by Bhai Vir Singh, Bhai Randhir Singh (Jail Chittehan), Bhai Raghubir Singh (Bandginamah),..and Many many many others...through their writings...and personal jeewans...so i have no problem at all. Even someone like Teja Singh Bhasaurr did a huge amount of work for Sikhi..promoting Women Education, framing the SRM ( present SRM is 99;95% based on the Panch Khalsa Diwan srm of Bhasaur)..at one time his Movement had grown so big even overseas like Mlaya/singapore/hongkong/thailand/burma etc that his "enemies" shook..and then he gave them the perfect weapon to pull him down..his personal jeewan took a wrong turn..and his flock began to desert him....so its TRUE thta SIKHI is Wallon NIKKI and khandeh Dhaar ton TIKHI..the slightest mistake and blood flows....
IN Athletics and sports..any one who wants to be successful...usually engages a COACH..who will PUSH PUSH and PUSH..Towards the GOAL. To a SIKH..any so called sant... Gurmukh.... whatever should be like a COACH..who ONLY PUSHES towards the SGGS as the Ultimate GOAL for our LIFE here on EARTH.
What I want to is to warn against..self promoting Coaches...who are NOT there to push you towards the SGGS...but gravitate you to their own FEET (while using SGGS/Gurbani/Bani and Banna) as their cloak...Sadly this field of FAKE COACHES is vast today....coaches abound by the hundred thousand....and SIKHS who fall into their clutches stray far from their GOAL...

Thanks for understanding..
Chardeekalla jios always
Jarnail Singh


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## seeker3k (Apr 25, 2010)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Here is another young man with serious doubts...about Graud Puran kathawachkas and Gurbani connection..
> 
> READ ON:
> 
> ...


 

Gyani Jarnail Singh
SSA

You gave us the Gurbani links. Looks like you read them but I don’t think u understood them. The Kabir’s bani says against any rituals. You also are against the ritiuals. If you have understood the Bani then you should not be doing any ritual. But you are and in your home you have gurus pictures. All the pictures are fake non are real pic. In the link it say in bani worshing stones are worthless. The SGGS is a book wich is as a stone. Book do not speak nor book eat. Yet u and all Sikhs do matha take. What is this? Is it not stone worship? You also carry 6” kirpan, Guru asked us to carry 3’ long kirpan. Is it not a ritual?  It is easy to talk about other religions and their fault. 
You can claim that you respect the SGGS not worship it. Can the Hindus say the same thing? But you do not respect what they say n do. If you can criticize other religion then be prepare to take criticize from them against our own religion. There are going to be many question asked about the Sikhism. Be prepare to answer them. Don’t kill the person who asks the question. If you don’t have the answer then say u don’t have it. One can run but can’t hide. There is no leadership from Akal Takhat. All the jathedar are in the pocket of Badal. They all do what he want. Are all dead Sikhs. We cant see what we are doing and who is controlling what. Yogi Bhajan Singh in ffice:smarttags" />USA made many white people Sikhs. He was baned to go to Golden Temple. Who else have converted other people into Sikhsism? We don’t even accept dalit as Sikhs. What a shame.

Guru Gobind set the democratic system as all are equal. Now what we see that can make any one lower his head with shame. 

I know you have the justification for every ritual u r doing. That is the one reason the Sikhism is going to be finished. Not by shivesana but our own who can not understand the message in the SGGS.

Seeker3k


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## spnadmin (Apr 25, 2010)

seeker3k ji

So that we can better understand your comments: Would you please define "ritual" as you are using it? And would you explain how your personal definition matches up with examples you have given about Gyani ji's activities and behaviors? I do not see the connection. But if you would define ritual as you use it, make the connections, then I might get it. I am certain there are other members who are having the same difficulty.

Thank you


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 25, 2010)

seeker 3..
I would like to answer your questions..but i cant find them...you made  a few assumptions about me and my home and what i do..although i havent ever seen you visit me ?? so i dont know where to begin..

1. Just for short - a person reading a "book" can learn from it and change..thats what all the worlds schols and universities are..i cant find any uni or school that only has statues .
The SGGS...is for reading, ..UNDERSTANDING the Message...and then...applying what one read..to CHANGE ones life. I and many others do just that....we read, we understand and we apply. 

How that is equal to having a  statue is beyond me. I do have a few wooden elephants, tigers and a few humans carvings and such..i just admire their beauty..they DONT teach me anything..except maybe the artist was good at what he did...and thats why i bought his art.

Please clarify before i go further.


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## jasbirkaleka (Apr 25, 2010)

Gur Fateh,Gyani ji,
Thanks for this very-well written article on Bramgyanies.Almost all SPN members agree about the dis-service these abominable  babas and  sants  are doing to  the Sikh cause and religion.
Now the Herculean task is of percolating this message down to the gullible Sikh masses who are being brain-washed by these crooks.
Nothing can be expected from the religio-political set-up that can appoint head of a dera,  Bibi Jagir Kaur,[by-the way she swears like a man], as head of SGPC.
Big question is-What is the so-called intelligentsia"[ it includes us all ] doing to herd these miss-guided Sikhs back to the path shown by Guru Nanak?
Almost nothing.:}--}:

And no-one can ever be a Brahamgyani, because the more we know.the more we get to know that we know so little.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 25, 2010)

Jasbir Ji,
Gurfateh.

The Intelligensia/academics have also failed the Sikhs..perhaps even more than the politicians. A tiny sprinkling have dared to stand tall against the onslaught of the Baba/dera/badal combine....they sold their souls to the "lowest" bidder..i mean at the cheapest prices..and di U-turns which are almost embarrassing to all but the academics.

IN todays Rozana Spokesman I saw an advertisment by a Baba Hanuman Singh whose present head is a sant who won the Fatehgarh seat on badal dal ticket..this dera has just completed...2929 Akhand Paaths to celebrate the 29th B{censored}e of the dead dera santhead...on 26th April 2020....My youngest student CAUGHT almost immediately..He said..Master Ji...the sant made one mistake...its* 29*the B{censored}e..He did* 2929 *Paaths..but the BHOG is on* 26*th..he should have waited till *29*th to COMPLETE the NUMEROLOGY GAME !! 29...2929...29..what a combination ha ha ha... and What about NEXT YEAR ??? will His Holiness be doing* 3030* akhand paths and B{censored}e bhog on *30*th april...??? These are the Brahmingyanis who released the chhcohhas about so many swaas and so many ashtpadees words etc in sukhmani sahib...and how so many paaths fo japji equal to one sehaj paath and all that B***. (BTW this dera sant sits quietly CROSS LEGGED on hsi Assembly Chair as he doesnt understand anything and so does "meditation" in the Punjab Assembly...expect such brahmgyanis to do the same in Parliament if elected.


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## smiles (Apr 25, 2010)

Yes there are Brahamgiani's. One has to look for them and the true ones are 18hrs a day in naam simran and often secluded from the world. Read Sukhmani sahib and understand the importance given to the word SANT.

It is the stupid people who do not have the evaluating eye and start doing mathaa tek and following some raggis as they have achieved braham gian.

I knew a Braham giani sant from 9 years old who passed away 2.5 yrs ago. He remained hidden and secluded and in very simple form. He built many gurduwaras, schools for sikh boys and girls. He was Jatt sikh farmer, land owner. He never went to sleep like normal people and at 10.30 PM rested his back against quilts rolled up and woke up 1.30. AM to do ishnan then do naam simran. He told me that he does prepare to sleep and if his eyes close for couple of hours then that is nature but he wanted to do naam simran all the time.

I saw countless times when he said things and those came true. He helped many people in distress and took their pains on himself.

People like you do not understand the first thing about this religion. I know people like you who can not identify the problems clearly. Promote the general gullable public NOT to follow simple people who have commercialized the religion and guide them to go in villages of India and look for those hidden Sants or Braham giani's who are sitting in closed rooms doing naam simran and not traveling business class and riding rolls royces in UK or California.

Judge the diamond yourself.

Visit www.Sikh2ube.com


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 25, 2010)

smiles said:


> Yes there are Brahamgiani's. One has to look for them and the true ones are 18hrs a day in naam simran and often secluded from the world. Read Sukhmani sahib and understand the importance given to the word SANT.
> 
> It is the stupid people who do not have the evaluating eye and start doing mathaa tek and following some raggis as they have achieved braham gian.
> 
> ...



Bhagat Kabir Ji...
Rahio SANT me tolllllllllllllllllllllllllll
SAADH Bahutereh dittheyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy..................

The One thing about GURBANI in SGGS is that no single tuk even goes enar CONTRADICT any others.
Kabir Ji is a SANT..a Brahmgyani..a BHAGAT par excellence.
His qualification..the Vast amount of GURBANI he wrote which GUru Arjun JI gave place of HONOUR in the SGGS.
I have Faith in the beleif that Bhagat Kabir JI KNEW..everything there is to KNOW about THIS religion...and HE did have the DISCERNING EYES..the EYES needed to Identify sants and Brahmgyanis.
I also have complete Faith that Bhagat Kabir Ji KNEW how to identify problems with the religion..the people..the faithful and the gullible and the not so gullible..the smarty pants types.
Bhagat Kabir ji WENT OUT..with his DISCERNING EYES that had the power to RECOGNISE a Brahm Gyani..a Sant..a GURU..a Bhagat..and The RESULTS of his SEARCH are RECORDED in SGGS.
SGGS DOESNT LIE or contain UNTRUTHS...and Bhagat Kbair Ji in this TUK is Talking so clearly and unambigously about LIVING BREATHING HUMAN BEINGS who are the so called "snats..Brahmgyanis..Gurus..etc etc etc.
The Sukhmani Sahib Ashtpadee you quoted is also the ALL TIME FAVOURITE of ALL present and past long dead Sants/Brahmgyanis/saadhs/sri 1008's and all in between....they take this ashtpadee as their SEAL OF APPROVAL...BUT its NOT a seal..its not a description of living human beings...its for "beings" of the standard of GURU NANAK - GURU GOBIND SINGH JI...SGGS...Akal Purakh..Parmeshar...is AAP Brahmgyani. 
THAT is the main reason why no such "titled persons" exist in SIKH HISTORY..from 1469....to 1935..NOT a single ONE. Its ONLY after the British ARMY recruited SIKHS..that SANTS came to be produced...First EX Britihs Army sant that came out is Sant Attar Singh Mastuanna - HIS spritual descendnats NOW have BUILT a REPLICA of Harmandar sahib in Mastuanna---Challenging the role of GURU Ramdass Ji and Guru Arjun JI. The Akal Takhat Passed a Hukmanamh to DEMOLISH that REPLICA..but it still stands tall. That means the chelas of this sant in mastuanna are IMPROVING and moving in a direction that Bhagat Kabir Ji already warned. Other Sants of this type place PHOTOS of their Babas and take out Nagar Kirtans...on Parallel with Nagar Kirtans carrying the SGGS...

Prophecies and miracles have no palce in true GURMATT. If I say..you will die tomorrow,...and you do that...does it mean that what I said came true..hence i am a sant ?? Its a matter of statistics..IF enough peole say soemthing..soemone is sure to be RIGHT. The Biggest puller of these fakes is..YOU will get a SON...and everybody knows that the probablity of that is 50%...no matter who says this..there is a 50% chance he will be CORRECT..so ALL those who are "correct" are SANTS ?? YES THEY ARE !!! Just ask the newly becoem MOTHER of a Baby BOY !! She will lick the feet of the "snat Ji" who amde the true prediction...and this is exactly HOW it all spreads...and when the SANT becomes desperate for 100% accuracy and Brahmgyaan..he doesn what the Pehova saadh did to a Amrtidharee Doctor in hsi hopsital. This doctor like many others in the sant dera hopsital ( charitable of course and made out of goluck but owned by the holy man )..were under instructions to CHECK ALL female devotees Foetuses...and IF a FEMALE was found..then they were to use an medical excuse to abort it...and keep it quiet...END RESULT the Baba wanted was a 100% SUCCESS RATE...JO SANT JI BOLEH..EEhaan uhaan SACH HOVEH !!!..and he was willing to Blind the doctor who refused to do what was required of him...The Episode is on U-Tube...

For each ONE such {censored}ROACH that crawls out of the sewer..There are a HUNDRED THOUSAND MORE who remain HIDDEN..and continue to cheat and decieve the ignorant and the GULLIBLE. And these are helped by some who cry foul....everytime a {censored}roach is exposed...READ the Sukhmani ..they scream....you have done great paap...a great soul has been maligned..your end will be terrible...brahmgyani ka dokhi..hai hai...GURU KA DOKHI..is acceptable.."sant" ka dokhi..NO WAY !!! papee dokhi..akirtghan..so on and so on...nastik..commuinst...atheist...kala afghanee..spokesmanii...are the choice titles awarded...

BOTTOM LINE..the One and ONLY SANT worth his salt is the SGGS.
Guru Ji tells us..BHAAG HOAA GUR-SANT MILAYAH....we have been gifted the SGGS..THE SUN OF GYYAN of the BRAHM......but we still go about in darkness..looking for candles.. Chasing after........fire flies !!!!


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## Simranman1 (Apr 25, 2010)

SSA,
Surely the question here is, how to educate the masses away from such influences and towards the real thing?:thumbsupp:


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## seeker3k (Apr 25, 2010)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> seeker 3..
> I would like to answer your questions..but i cant find them...you made a few assumptions about me and my home and what i do..although i havent ever seen you visit me ?? so i dont know where to begin..
> 
> 1. Just for short - a person reading a "book" can learn from it and change..thats what all the worlds schols and universities are..i cant find any uni or school that only has statues .
> ...







Gyani Ji,

If one chose not to understand what I wrote then it is not my fault. Here are direct question to you
Do you carry 6” kirpan?
Do you do path every day?
Do you bow down to SGGS?
How long have you been doing path?
Do you wash your hand before you open the gutka to do the path?
When there is kirtan on the TV, do you sit and cover your head?
Do you have picture of Guru in your house?
Have you seen pictures of guru in gurdwaras?
Have to seen idol of Nanak being sold in the compound of Harmandar in Amirtsar?

There are thousands doctors graduate every year in any given country. They learn from the books. I have never seen any doctor bowing down in front of a book nor I have seen any doctor keep reading same chapter every day. None of the doctor worship the books the learned from. They have learned and do the practice their profession.
As being in religion one don’t see what he is doing blindly. It is the other who sees them here the one who sees it is being ridiculed. Is it not the same thing Nanak did. He was also stoned by the people who did not like what he was saying.
I whole idea to write is to wake you and others to see what they are doing.
If you want to keep on doing what you are doing it your life. No skin of my back
This is forum in forum people are going to raise question that we don’t like. Do we try to find the answer or condemn the one who ask?
This is what the Akal takt jathedar are doing in Punjab against the new paper Rozan Spokesman. When this paper ask the question about what is written in dasm granth. Same as what is happening to Darshan Singh.
 Some are living 10,000. years ago some 5,000. years. We Sikhs are living 500 years ago and Khalsa about 300 years ago. We need to live in the present and live in peace.
Think not to harm any life.


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## jasbirkaleka (Apr 25, 2010)

smiles said:


> Yes there are Brahamgiani's. One has to look for them and the true ones are 18hrs a day in naam simran and often secluded from the world. Read Sukhmani sahib and understand the importance given to the word SANT.
> 
> It is the stupid people who do not have the evaluating eye and start doing mathaa tek and following some raggis as they have achieved braham gian.
> 
> ...


ikonkaarsmiles ji,
it seems quite normal for a 9 year old to be impresed by someone who lives secluded from the world for 18 hrs. a day,doing Naam Simran and start believing him to be a Brahamgyani? 
And pray,cuold you enlighten which Sikh Guru asked us to live secluded lives cocooned in a room or a cave praying day and night.
Brahamgyan is something that we srtive to attain.I believe thetSiKHI is a continous prosses of learning and one who claimes that he has become a Brahamgyani has again got himself caught in a trap
No Sikh Guru ever claimed that he has attaiined Brahmgyaan,so how can we call these simple babas ans sants Brahmgyanies.
Further making predictions is taboo in Sikhism.
With due apolpgies,
Jasbir Singh Kaleka


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## Simranman1 (Apr 25, 2010)

*SSA seeker 3k,*
*How many of these books have the capability to join you with God?*


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## seeker3k (Apr 25, 2010)

sphuling said:


> *SSA seeker 3k,
> How many of these books have the capability to join you with God?*




Dear sphuling Ji,

By reading the book (this  book says in it that by reading no one can reach god) have you reached god? The God which Nanak described in the beginning of his bani? That God do not have body, that god can not be seen that god do not get born. Is this god is only Sikh’s god or for the whole universe?  Looks like you have very different view of god then what Nanak was talking about.
If you have reached that god then you are the luckiest man on this earth. Or you are just faking it.


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## seeker3k (Apr 25, 2010)

jasbirkaleka said:


> ikonkaarsmiles ji,
> it seems quite normal for a 9 year old to be impresed by someone who lives secluded from the world for 18 hrs. a day,doing Naam Simran and start believing him to be a Brahamgyani?
> And pray,cuold you enlighten which Sikh Guru asked us to live secluded lives cocooned in a room or a cave praying day and night.
> Brahamgyan is something that we srtive to attain.I believe thetSiKHI is a continous prosses of learning and one who claimes that he has become a Brahamgyani has again got himself caught in a trap
> ...







Jasbirkalka Ji,

I do not blame you to believe that you met brahgyani. It is the conditioning that is done on us by the parent and society. We have been brainwashed to believe in sants and sadhu. We are week and looking for miracles to solve our problem which we have created. Look at the doctors they bring back people from the death. No one is singing their praises. There is miracles it is only lack of understand.  I have challenged the so called chelas who remove demons from people. Here is what I did: I went to kartarpur close to Jallander on no moon day.masia. I asked what do you do with the prate atama when you take it out of person? He said they make them go to other world. Good I said so these atmas are in your control.  Yes he said. Then you should be albe to put that atma in me for 5 minutes then you can take it out and send it to other world. He said why do you want him in you? I just want to see n feel the atama in me. He said I cant do that it is forbidden for me to do that. I said I give you in writing that I take full responsibility if any thing go wrong. He said he wont do it. I said he u r in control then you can do it. Or say that you are not in control. He just walked away.
We are week and can not challenge these dhongis. We are afraid it might be true we will be possessed by bhoot. I have challenged many people about all the hocus pokes. All they do is to take advantage of innocent people. 
Be on guard so that no one can fool you. If gurus never claim to be brahgyani nor they are guru. Then why are we believing them to be guru? We are week we need some to believe in. 
2 what was that naam he was doing simran of? Did he tell you that naam? I don’t think so
seeker 3k


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## Simranman1 (Apr 25, 2010)

*SSA seeker 3k,*

ਸਬਦੈ ਹੀ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੇ ਲਗੈ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥
sabadhai hee thae paaeeai har naamae lagai piaar ||
Through the Shabad, we find Him, and embrace love for the Name of the Lord.
9  Sriraag Guru Nanak Dev 

May it be Humbly suggested, that perhaps you should read The 'SGGS' just one more time?


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## seeker3k (Apr 25, 2010)

sphuling said:


> *SSA seeker 3k,*
> 
> ਸਬਦੈ ਹੀ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੇ ਲਗੈ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥
> sabadhai hee thae paaeeai har naamae lagai piaar ||
> ...



Please tell me what is his name. What naam we should simran?
I have read the SGGS there no name that oe should do the simran of.
Please dont give verse from SGGS. Give us your own experience of naam jap (simran)

If you know then why beat around the buss tell us what naam?


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## Simranman1 (Apr 25, 2010)

*SSA Seeker 3k,*
*Not to beat arround the Bush, You may choose any name, or 'mantra' you like!*
*The one suggested by 'his' servants is 'WAHAGURU', Waha on the in breath, Guru on the out breath. *
*Thankyou for asking so succinctly.*
*BBFN.*


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## seeker3k (Apr 25, 2010)

sphuling said:


> *SSA Seeker 3k,
> Not to beat arround the Bush, You may choose any name, or 'mantra' you like!
> The one suggested by 'his' servants is 'WAHAGURU', Waha on the in breath, Guru on the out breath.
> Thankyou for asking so succinctly.
> BBFN.*



There is one problem with waheguru word. At the time of Nanak this word was not there. Nanak talked intensively about naam but he never said waheguru in any of his bani. Nor did any guru. It was the bhatt who sang it to praise OF GURU. That can not be the naam what Nanak talked about. I am 65 and started my journey on this path 40 years ago. I did lot of naam simran. I have done waheguru sat nam n many other.they work to some extent but do not take one further. I my journey I went most of the places in India no one could satisfy me about naam. I don’t denia that there is no naam. Sorry if I offended you waheguru is not the naam. The naam what Nanak talked about. It is in the mool manter if you can figure it out. But it has to be given by guru as parsad. It can not be asked from the so called guru. By taking the naam from SGGS is our own quest not parsad of guru.
I am not trying to tell yiu to give up simran of waheguru. When you do this waheguru naam you need to be aware of what is going on in you. By being aware you will know your self. It is this awareness that can lead you to the real naam. One have to know where he/she is stuck and find the way out. The questions you need to ask are: why I am a sikh, why I am hindu or any other religion? Why I am Punjabi why I am Indian? Until you ask these question to your self you will never know your self. Just once a day take your self out of what u believe that look it from out side of your belief. 

I am sorry to those Sikhs who are offended by my views. I did not intend to insult any one.


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## Simranman1 (Apr 25, 2010)

*SSA Seeker 3k,*
*Aggree with u entirely, 'He' has no name!*
*'I' don't exist.*
*Choose ny mantra u like, and in your own words, become aware of the changes in ur self.*
*Thx 4 the reply. Much appreciated.*
*No sikh should be offended of anyone else's views, if s/he is, then ofcorse that's no sikh.*
*Enjoy ur Life, Been v-nice talking to u!*
*TTFN:carefreemunda:*


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## jasbirkaleka (Apr 25, 2010)

seeker3k said:


> Jasbirkalka Ji,
> I do not blame you to believe that you met brahgyani. It is the conditioning that is done on us by the parent and society. We have been brainwashed to believe in sants and sadhu. We are week and looking for miracles to solve our problem which we have created. Look at the doctors they bring back people from the death. No one is singing their praises. There is miracles it is only lack of understand. I have challenged the so called chelas who remove demons from people. Here is what I did: I went to kartarpur close to Jallander on no moon day.masia. I asked what do you do with the prate atama when you take it out of person? He said they make them go to other world. Good I said so these atmas are in your control. Yes he said. Then you should be albe to put that atma in me for 5 minutes then you can take it out and send it to other world. He said why do you want him in you? I just want to see n feel the atama in me. He said I cant do that it is forbidden for me to do that. I said I give you in writing that I take full responsibility if any thing go wrong. He said he wont do it. I said he u r in control then you can do it. Or say that you are not in control. He just walked away.
> We are week and can not challenge these dhongis. We are afraid it might be true we will be possessed by bhoot. I have challenged many people about all the hocus pokes. All they do is to take advantage of innocent people.
> Be on guard so that no one can fool you. If gurus never claim to be brahgyani nor they are guru. Then why are we believing them to be guru? We are week we need some to believe in.
> ...


seeker 3k ji,
It not I who believes in babas and sants,but it was my reply to smiles ji.
The fact us that I am a member of Rationalists Sosiety of India.


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## smiles (Apr 26, 2010)

jasbirkaleka said:


> seeker 3k ji,
> It not I who believes in babas and sants,but it was my reply to smiles ji.
> The fact us that I am a member of Rationalists Sosiety of India.



First of all it is very heard to find a true Sant or Brhamgyani. Even if you find him, then they distance themselves from public as they are committed to naam simran and stay low profile, in simplicity without advertising them selves.

I totally agree with you that all of the dhongis that are commercializing are at fault and it is our stupid public that does not know better. Anyone who starts amrit parchar becomes like a demi god. One has to see the lifestyle of the person under a microscope and over number of years to realize if there is any credibility or not.

I agree that the Doctors do wonderful things but they also can not cheat death sometime. In my mother's case who had cancer, she was told by the doctors and biochemists that she was going to die in 7 days, She had brain odema and was in a comma. We called our Sant babaji and told him about it and he asked me "Maa bachaani eh bhai" ,, I said yes Babaji please do kirpa. We all prayed next to my mom-- 23 of us. I did path almost 20 hrs a day next to her and my feet started to hurt from standing. One night I was doing Chaupai sahib path repeatedly. My mom;s fever was 104 and she needed blood transfusion and the doctors could not do this until the fever came down. Around midnight, my mom suddenly woke up and sat upright. She had been in coma and not talking. She was speaking something jibberish and I asked her what is going on. She said .. they are here. I said are these Sikhs with open beards. She said yes they are and they are here now. I did gur fateh to them loudly and asked my mother to tell them that I have done request to Sant babaji and also that the children and requesting some additional time to spend with the mother. She did that benti and then started to laugh. I asked what happened, she said they agreed and are leaving. I thanked them loudly and did gur fateh again. Later I thought perhaps due to high fever mom might have become delusional but I kept doing my path and did believe that yes may be this experience was true. After 1 hour her fever started to come down and at 2 AM the blood was given to her.

In the morning she gathered all of my brothers and sisters and called the eldest brother and told him to note this thing very carefully and write it down somewhere. She said that she might have left last night as the people came to get her and that Sant babaji's ardaas and also that I made a request and they agreed that your son is pressing this issue and therefore we will give you 6 months.

In the morning I got a call from one of the sangat person that babaji stayed in his room for 5 days without food in his room and called one person in the room that day and said to call Canada and let them know that his mother is now OK and out of danger. There was a lot of sangat sitting outside all the time. After this Babaji became very sick and could not walk for a month. My mom of course lived and walked out of that hospital. All the doctor's were very surprised and the Bio Chemist started crying, a 6ft tall person said that he has not seen 1 person in his life come out of that condition and even in all the books he was taught and read it was a terminal fatal condition where my mom had been. 

Later when mom was better, I went and brought Sant babaji to Canada and he stayed with me for 10 days. He had become weak and needed support to walk. I asked him Babaji " kuch deelai hogai". He replied, nothing comes free. if you have to take something then you have to give something. After this he got more sick when he went to india but told me that my mother had 6 months extension.

After exactly 6 months my mom was admitted to hospital and she got very critical. I did not call Sant babaji as I did not want to bother him anymore after realizing that he had take some of the pain to relieve the pain elsewhere. At 11.30 one morning, I got a call from Babaji using a sangat's hand phone ( I had sent him two mobile phones and he never used them and gave them away) and he told me, Sarbjeet 30 mins reh gaye teri maa vaste, hun waheguru da jaap karo sare. He told me to get 5 nitnemi sikhs including Gurduwara Giani ASAP. We did that and they arrive just before 12.00 PM and my mom passed exactly at 10.00 PM.

There are many examples like this. I had cut my hair, used to drink 40 pounder scotch and used fry 30-40 lbs of chicken on a single evening and he changed my life with love. For 15 years now I have not touched alcohol, meat and have a full beard and turban. He did this with love and under his affection I changed. I do 5 Japji sahib paths every day. I did full guru granth sahib path with my wife's assistance in 5 days. Basically we would keep taking shifts and do path all day.

I am sorry that you have not met any real True Sants which are honored in Sukhamani sahib.. Even guru ji says Raam sant me pedh kich nahi... To talk bad about sants also is spoken in Sukhmani sahib.. sant ka dhoki adbich te tute.. so address your anger at Dhongis not at people who have spent life time doing naam simran and doing bhalaa for people.

Go to Nathal pur pind and ask about Late Sant Ajit Singh ji.. and people will tell you his good deeds and brahamgyani avastahaa that people got to feel. He was a farmer Jatt sikh who worked hard with his hands but was always doing naam simran. This comes from number of lives naam simran and does not come from doing keertan or just doing amrit parchar and doing jakarai at Gurduwaras.

Seek and ye shall find, if you really have a quest. Otherwise go on criticizing the True Brahamgyanis and Sants. Think about it when your kids are sick the first thing we do is start doing ardaas and benti's so the people who have spent life times or several life times doing naam simran have a much closer connection to Akal purakh and to learn a better way of life from them has no harm. You have to find the right person. Perhaps some day you will meet one.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 27, 2010)

Its OUR haumaii that IF we seek and we shall find...

*GURBANI already FOUND IT ALL for us and its open for us in SGGS at all times day and night*. GURU JI spent 250 years on this Earth..to WRITE DOWN the SGGS..of 1429 pages LONG...to Make sure we all KNOW EXACTLY what is required of us..and we dont go "seeking" around like the blind looking for an extra door...soem more time..Fact is NO ONE WILL EVER SAY..I am Happy to GO NOW..given swaas by YOU have EXPIRED..YOUR HUKM SIR MATHEH. Every one wants a few more minutes..a few more days..a few more months..a few more years...WHEN WILL IT REALLY STOP ?? THE FACT is GHALLEH AYEH NANAKA SADDEH UTH JAYEH..WHEN HE CALLS...YOU GO....NO EXCUSES...no delays...no ifs and no buts...JEHA CHEEREE LIKHAYAH.....ITS HIS WISH..to CUT the plant while green..seedling..fully grown..pakkiah hoyah..HE IS THE FARMER..its HIS CROP.

The HUKM RAZAEE CHALLNNA is HIS HUKM. Japji Sahib.

*SO far NONE has been born who can TURN* *OFF DEATH PERMANENTLY*. 

IN Fact the GURUS by PRIME EXAMPLE showed us HOW TO HUKM RAZAEE CHALLNNA...Guur Nanak Ji Sahib, Guru Amardass JI sahib..Bhai Buddha Ji sahib...etc etc LIVING to a RIPE OLD AGE....Guru Ramdass Ji..early departure..Guru Arjun Ji shaheedee in a most horrible way..Guru Har Kishan JI..very very early departure due to small pox, Guur Teg Bahdur Ji shaheedee..Guur Gobind Singh Ji a short life of just 40 years...departure due to stabbing by an enemy....WHATEVER WAS HIS HUKM...GURU JI FOLLOWED TO THE LETTER..no asking for "extra time"...a few hours more...six years more..six seconds more ...NO.  JUst IMAGINE IF each of the TEN GURUS had lived for 80++ years lived by Guru nanak ji and Guru Amardass JI....we would STILL BE LIVING in the Gurgadee of a LIVING SIXTH GURU...GURU HARGOBIND JI..and still have another FOUR Guurs to go...?????   BUT NO..this is just FICTION...FACT IS....   DEATH/PLACE/TIME/METHOD is FIXED by HIS HUKM...even the GURU JI followed his HUKM....and IF his HUKM was Call at age 5..then Guru Harkishan Ji OBEYED.

Ramkali SADD is to TEACH US THAT LESSON..and RAMKALI ANAND is to MAKE US REJOICE in HIS HUKM. BOTH these Banis are placed side by side in SGGS....SADD COMES BEFORE ANAND !!! Meaning..when the SADD COMES...REJOICE THAT HE HAS CALLED YOU !!! dont go begging for ..more time..please...it doesnt Work that way.:welcome:


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## seeker3k (Apr 27, 2010)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Its OUR haumaii that IF we seek and we shall find...
> 
> GURBANI already FOUND IT ALL for us and its open for us in SGGS at all times day and night. GURU JI spent 250 years on this Earth..to WRITE DOWN the SGGS..of 1429 pages LONG...to Make sure we all KNOW EXACTLY what is required of us..and we dont go "seeking" around like the blind looking for an extra door...soem more time..Fact is NO ONE WILL EVER SAY..I am Happy to GO NOW..given swaas by YOU have EXPIRED..YOUR HUKM SIR MATHEH. Every one wants a few more minutes..a few more days..a few more months..a few more years...WHEN WILL IT REALLY STOP ?? THE FACT is GHALLEH AYEH NANAKA SADDEH UTH JAYEH..WHEN HE CALLS...YOU GO....NO EXCUSES...no delays...no ifs and no buts...JEHA CHEEREE LIKHAYAH.....ITS HIS WISH..to CUT the plant while green..seedling..fully grown..pakkiah hoyah..HE IS THE FARMER..its HIS CROP.
> 
> ...


 

Smiles And Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji,

It is nice tail what we use to call batan that older folks were use to tell us at night time.

I agre with you on that there are brahmgyani and one can become brahgyani too. But when one become brahgyani he have no maan dil. Every thing is done due to maan. Even man do things out of mind. His maan get angree he curse, his maan is pleased he bless, Brahmgyani have no maan so he can not get angree nor pleased. So doing kirpa or curse is out of the question. With certain meditation one can get some power that he can manipulate the nature. Scientist are doing that every day. I don’t understand whay educated people don’t understand that SGGS is a guide. It was never meant to do path. It was to be understood and live by it. Because it is in poetry we believe that it should be sung. It is like reading a guide that comes with TV when we buy it. If we don’t do what the guide tell us to do. Eg: plug the TV in the plug and turn the tuner to the channel that we want to watch. If we don’t do that we cant watch TV.

We turn on the radio to listen to music or any thing. We must turn to certain station. The person at the station is speaking in the mic that sound is converted into sound that travel through the air through the walls. We can listen to it thousands miles away. Is that a miracle?  No it is science nothing more. As Gyani ji said the God can change his hukam in split sec. The question is why would God change his own hukam?Is he upset on some one or is he pleases by some one? If brahmgyani  has no maan then can God have maan? As reading the guide we can not watch TV it is same that we can not please God or make him anger. If so then why the charade?  Every thing is sound. When we change the sound to ultra sound we can see thing in the body. That sound is called dhun in SGGS. The question is how can we make that or listen to that dhun?  At the end of mool mantar there is one word called jaap. What is that mean? It is before the next verse of japji. What is that jaap mean? Does any one knows what the Nanak was telling us to do, do the jaap of what? Ther is no waheguru here. This mantar have to blessed by the guru (gurparsad).

Only doing the jaap of this naam we can hear and make that dhun, That dhun will take one to brahma then he become brahmgyani. With doing meditaion on any other naam one can attain some powers to manipulate some part of nature but can never become brahmgyani.

This sant did get 6 months for your mom. But he could not get her to live for ever. He did it out of his maan you can argue that he did not wanted any money. But there some thing much more bigger then money. It is to control people to convince other people that he have the power. We can not see it because we are week and want our mom to be with us for few more month. Your mom saw the sikh bhoots. The soul has no akar. It is not solid thing. How can she saw the Sikh’s souls with open beard?  By saying this we are led to believe that there are many heavens for different religions. Or it maybe for different casts as the brahmans had us believed. 

It is easy to become brahamgyani at the same time it is very difficult. For brahmgyani there is no enemy he teat every one same. If we look at our behavior we can know we don’t see any one who treat every one same. For us Sikhs if it don’t measure up to Sikhism then it is not true. I wonder how people lived before the Sikhism. It is pure ego that nothing can be better then Sikhism. When we have this ego how can one become brahmgyani?

First find out what is true naam

seeker3k


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 27, 2010)

seeker wrote:

 I don’t understand why *educated* people don’t understand that SGGS is a  guide. It was never meant to do path.* It was to be understood and live  by it*. Because it is in poetry we believe that it should be sung. <<<<<<<<<,

Its in POETRY...YES...and ITS meant to be SUNG...to make that Doubly sure..ITS in RAAG...31 different RAAGS to be exact. :happysingh:
BUT not juts empty "singing" as is being doen in Kirtan Darbas..Raein sabiis, and Mahaan to vee mahaan Maha-Mahaan Kirtan Darbars, nagar kirtans etc etc which are nothing but circus/melas.
It is meant to be SUNG to BRING ones daily Life into TUNE with the Creator. THAT can only happen if the MESSAGE of Gurbani is FOLLOWED and ADAPTED...to change our daily lives for the BETTER..IF that doesnt happen and we go through life as we came..then we have not "switched ON" the TV...just kept admiirng it and looking at the guide...or worse "covered it with a beautiful cloth cover to keep the dust away)


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## sunsingh (Apr 28, 2010)

For a real jagriti, let us look at what Guru ji teaches instead of interpreting Gurbani as we see fit. The word bhramgyani is not a title, although some mistakenly use it as such. It instead describes the internal spiritual state of the seeker. 

The Satsangat is a garden, and if every once in a while this garden did not bear fruit, if some seeker did not achieve the goal of this path, then the garden would be a failure would it not?? The bhramgyani is the fruit of the garden of satsangat. 

There a series of posts on this blog which examine what Gurbani teaches about the word 'sant' and 'bhramgyani'. Please see the article series Role of Sants in the panth. Role of Sants  Khojee


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## smiles (May 5, 2010)

Lot of people are saying no need to do path.

SGGS says Udath bedath sovat jagat eh man tud chitarai...

Then ..suntai puneet kahtai pavit.. SGGS says people who read or listen to path are bestowed by guru kirpa.

ALL of you guys are Loosers. who have no idea and take the short cut to say live like what SGGS says and never mind doing any path. 

Then someone said no one cheats death.. Sant baba Maha Harnaam Singh Bochon kala wale , guru of Sant Baba Nand singh ji Kalarena wale turned his sadaa two times and the third time Akal purkah told Sant ji not to do ulangana. Read the jeevani and people who were around this Brahmgyani sant ji. Have any one of you before posting infantile remarks do any search about real sants. I can tell I am dealing with people who are still at step 0 or at step 1.

If anyone hired someone to do waheguru waheguru for 8 hrs, I bet you that no one would, even if payment was promised at a good hourly rate. Aakhan akhaa sachaa nao.. this is the most difficult and this what Brahamgyanis do 12-18 hrs a day. Ask your local gurduwara giani to come to your house and ask him to do waheguru waheguru aloud for 8 hours straight.. you will see the result.

Simar simar simar sukh pavooh, kaal kalesh tan meh mitovoo. Listen to SGGS thru out and it always says one thing DO NAAM SIMRAN>>>>


No point posting any thing here any more.. you guys need to grow up.


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## smiles (May 5, 2010)

gyani jarnail singh said:


> its our haumaii that if we seek and we shall find...
> 
> *gurbani already found it all for us and its open for us in sggs at all times day and night*. Guru ji spent 250 years on this earth..to write down the sggs..of 1429 pages long...to make sure we all know exactly what is required of us..and we dont go "seeking" around like the blind looking for an extra door...soem more time..fact is no one will ever say..i am happy to go now..given swaas by you have expired..your hukm sir matheh. Every one wants a few more minutes..a few more days..a few more months..a few more years...when will it really stop ?? The fact is ghalleh ayeh nanaka saddeh uth jayeh..when he calls...you go....no excuses...no delays...no ifs and no buts...jeha cheeree likhayah.....its his wish..to cut the plant while green..seedling..fully grown..pakkiah hoyah..he is the farmer..its his crop.
> 
> ...



why does sggs says -- mirtak ko jeevalan har... That is the power of gurbani.... Yes sggs has spelled it out but an average person can not decipher it that easily. If you are doing your research by taking guide from good tikka then u are on the right track.. If all you want to do is understand sggs first. It will take you life time just to use  tikka, dictionaries to do this.. And the entire sggs says .. Chetna hai to chet lai...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (May 5, 2010)

No point posting any thing here any more.. you guys need to grow up.<<<<<<<<<<

IF Guru Nanak Ji was with that attitude..He wouldnt have set foot outside Nankanna Sahib.
NOT in a Single tuk of SGGS does Guru ji say..such things....on the other hand Guru Ji continues to REPEAT and REPEAT and REPEAT...never saying..ENOUGH !! I have had it up to here..you guys are infantile..senile..at step 0..

Guru Ji went to Hardwaar...Mecca...Sri lanka..Himalayas..Tibet...Assam and Bengal....through forests and deserts..crossing huge rivers..and deep ravines..crossing lands infested with raging wild beasts.....TEACHING people who were WAY BELOW STEP 0.............................way...................below.................and that from a GURU who was.way.........................ABOVE..................sky high in steps !!!

Read the description of a Brahmgyani in Sukhmani Sahib...does it look like a GROWLY MONSTER...NO..its the picture of SERENITY...CALMNESS...PEACE...Bhagat Pooran Singh types who have very special GARLANDS around their necks...unlike the FAKES who hanker after those Garlands of Maya/Notes/Pounds/Dollars/even mere Flowers !! BUT never the type of garland thta pooran singh wore his entire life....:advocate::welcome:


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (May 5, 2010)

BTW..THOUSANDS of people all over..do "paaths" for MONEY..they also Say WAHEGURU WAHEGURU...not only just for 8 hours..but for rein sabaiis and shobha yatras and akhand kiratn darbars..FOR POUNDS/DOLLARS/RUPEES !! The SGGS/GURDWARAS/KIRTAN/ is a HUGE "EMPLOYER" for many hundred thousands....soem do it OPENLY..others HIDE BEHIND masks of divinity..(but accept money/honour/siropas). its not so simple..many layers under neath..like an ONION...


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (May 5, 2010)

<<<<<<<why does sggs says -- mirtak ko jeevalan har...>>>>

YES Jios. The Power of Gurbani does that...Breathe the power of LIFE into DEAD !!
But here the Mirtak is NOT a PHYSICALLY DEAD BODY....the Mirtak are those mentioned in Asa Dee Vaar...those who wear mughal pathani clothes..who forsook their mother tongue..the sacred sanskrit language of their gods/devtas for F{censored}e..Urdu..langauge of the invader..those who sya..Fitteh fitteh chounka sada fitteh...stay away dont defile our sacred  kitchen.in the Daylight thye say..we are VEGETARIANS..we cant even stand the smell of meat.....BUT in the Silence and darkness of the NIGHT..devour even HUMANS..and eat "women" RAW !! Those who would open their mouths wide to receive the filth of the invader..those who refused to keep even  a kitchen knife in the hosue becasue it was forbidden to non-muslims...those who gladly gifted their teenage virgin daughters, even newly married wives to the mughals..those who stopped wearing a turban as it was royal attire emant only for the invader ruling class..those who walked becasue it was forbidden to keep a horse except by a Muslim..etc etc...THOSE WHO WERE SPIRITUALLY DEAD FOR A THOUSAND YEARS.....

GURBANI..via GURU NANAK JI...awoke these sleeping...the LIVING DEAD...during the FOUR WARS thta Guru hargobind Sahib ji fought..these halwais...sweetmeat makers, jalebi makers, farmers, labourers who had never even seen a knife..TOOK UP ARMS..rode Arabian Horses..and DEFEATED the Professional Mughal Soldiers of Shah Jehan !!

GURBANI has this POWER...mirtak kao jeewalan haar !! It had it..in 1469...1500..1699...1704/05...1918..1945..1947..1962..1965..1971..1984..and still has it and will have forever... Gurbani gave the sustainence to Guru Arjun ji to sit clamly on the Hot Plate..same Gurbani gave the POWER to Banda Singh to have the beating heart of hsi toddler son pushed into hsi mouth...his maas pulled away bit by biot by hot pincers..eyes gouged out..still saying WAHEGURU WAHEGURU...it was this pwoer in Bhai Taru Singh having his scalp removed.....HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of ZINDA SHAHEEDS..Baba Deep Singh..Baba Mani Singh cut form joint to joint...

BUT as "PHYSICAL BODIES"...ALL these Singhs..are NO MORE with us on this EARTH.  Because DEATH IS a FACT..a SACH....NO BODY DEFEATS PHYSICAL DEATH...NOBODY WHO EVER WAS BORN to a WOMAN....has ever LIVED..forever...NO ONE. PERIOD.
ALL that talk about "REFUSING" the sadda is a LIE..a Blatant LIE. IN the Bible also Jesus is said to have REVIVED the DEAD LAZAERUS...BUT even the 1.2 BILLION Christians with all their POWER CANNOT show a LIVING LAZARUS..not the USA with its world economy..not Great Britain with its Empire that never saw the setting sun...BUT that is not our buisiness..its their beleif...lets NOT bring down Gurbani to a level we are on...step 0 or 1 or 4 or 56 !! GURBANI is sadeevee sach..ETERNAL TRUTH..and eternal truth is..anyone BORN...DIES (eventually)..Time, Place, method determined by HIM...and HIM ALONE.:happysingh:


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## Admin (May 6, 2010)

*Interesting Videos on this Topic!*

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=j9MR9b4VAAk

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=bOrJZ8JFcQQ

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=eKRq4pVjdCk

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=RwlPlTeX37U

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=G-Cjpj97GBM


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (May 6, 2010)

Absolutely ONLY FACTS and TRUTH. Nothing but the whole unadulterated TRUTH. Sach sunaisee SACH ki Bela...said Guru nanak Ji sahib...are we his SIKHS ready to accept eh TRUTH of GURBANI or we accept these FAKES and Charlatans who are robbing us blind.
This Book..Santan de kautak by Sardar Sabhra is avilable in Punjabi .
These FAKE "Brahmgyanis/sants/babas/mahapurahs/sri 108's, sri 1008's etc etc " are LOOTERS and WEHLARRS who eat from the Kamaii of the Householders. They support DEH and Dehdharees and fake Gurudoms against the Eternal Shabad Guru SGGS.
GURU NANAK JI separated us form the DEH...the Gurus used NUMERALS instead of Names....Mehla Pehla.dooja teeja etc...and not even "GURU"..these FAKES attach such GRANDIOSE and HUGE STRINGS of TITLES....No wonder even a ordinary singer like Babauu Maan had to make the clarion call to us to WAKE UP and smell the coffee !! EK baba nanak See jisneh turkeh dunia gahtee...EK eh Faltu babeh see jihnanh ne lal batte gaddee te lah tee !! RED LIGHT on Car and Specila SECURITY means they speak the GOVT Language..language of Babar..malik Bhago..Aurengzeb....NOT bhai lalo..Bhai mardana or Guru nanak Ji. WE have to decide which way we go...towards the Malik Bhagos..or Bhai lalos...GURU NANAK JI stands beside Bhai LALO !!:happysingh:


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## seeker3k (May 6, 2010)

Dear barfi ji

Thank you for the article it is of the best. You say there should be no judging.
When one of child is getting into bad things, we normally have a talk with him/her.
The child will take it as we are judging him/her. But we think we are doing our duty.
 The real question is why lot of people are going to babbay? I think one reason is what they want is not getting in gurdwaras. Other reason is babbay promises to fix our problem that we have created by our self. In gurdawas the most bhai ji don’t have the idea of the problem the person is facing. Most of the problem is psychosomatic. Most of these problems go away in time. But we will give the credit to babbe.

When we say our religion is the best in the world, are we not judging other religion?
We become egoist when we put down other religion.
Babby do the simran for them self no one else. We we making them babby. If a man do the simran and get some didhi why we don’t do that? We don’t want to be bothers with the simran .All we want some one to solve our problem.

I see lot of judging going on here in this form. Do we not discuss the things that are corrupting the society or stay out? When thee so called babby own property and abuse public. Is it not our responsibility to speak out? Every one thinks his idea is best.
We can not live in dream world. Sooner or later we have to stand up and face the music.
Just like Guru Gobind Singh did in 1669. 

There is lot to learn from your article. Thanks again.

Seeker3k


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## Ajeet Singh (Jun 1, 2015)

Reverend Guru Piareo.......Sat Sri Akal..........Wonderful topic & very well discussed indeed. My  life journey  started as VIGIANI & then it reached the stage of AGIANI . As a AGIANI , GURU blessed me to meet a Brahmgiani , who was kind to facilitate in my getting a glimpse (FLASH) of  Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj when I lifted my forehead after bowing before GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE MAHARAJ. However latest finding is that I met an 11 year old BRAHMGIANI who really looks like GURU HAR KRISHAN JEE MAHARAJ. His name is GAGANDEEP SINGH & stays in the village KARTARSAR about 10 KM from PGI CHANDIGARH . This fact is the light of truth . Do you desire to see his latest photograph ? The focus of my expression is to highlight that we are truly self proclaimed Brahmgianies as such enjoy this status to live in comfort zone of ego. I certify myself as a AGIANI ..............DIVINE LOVE


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## chazSingh (Jun 5, 2015)

of course there are some true brahmgiani's...if there were none, then SGGS Ji would be failing miserably in it's task to awaken us.
Waheguru is trying to awaken us to the truth....when a brahmgiani is walking amongst us, they will also follow this path of awakening us as per waheguru's Will...

all those who are destined may cross the path of a true brahmgiani...others as per SGGS ji wander aimlessly following their worldly desires...
all part of the play of life and the game of love..


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## Harry Haller (Jun 5, 2015)

Without a doubt Brahmgianis truly exist, they keep the flashing red light industry in business!


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## Ajeet Singh (Jun 5, 2015)

Dear Harry Haller ..........Kindly do not get confused between superficial bliss of sex with infinite bliss of love of truth known as NAAM.......LOVE


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## Harry Haller (Jun 6, 2015)

Ajeet Singh said:


> Kindly do not get confused



confused? me? I am not confused..



Ajeet Singh said:


> Reverend Guru Piareo



Who is Reverend Guru Piareo? it sounds like a character from cluedo



Ajeet Singh said:


> My life journey started as VIGIANI & then it reached the stage of AGIANI .



I cannot find any information on either term in google, can you explain what a vigiani is?



Ajeet Singh said:


> The focus of my expression is to highlight that we are truly self proclaimed Brahmgianies as such enjoy this status to live in comfort zone of ego. I certify myself as a AGIANI ..............DIVINE LOVE



thats ok, I have decided to certify myself as an accountant, this self certification is great!



Ajeet Singh said:


> Dear Harry Haller ..........Kindly do not get confused between superficial bliss of sex with infinite bliss of love of truth known as NAAM.......LOVE



ok, this is something slightly different, its spontaneous, and its called wit! The red light is not in reference to a brothel, although, personally, I would  rather go to a brothel than a Brahmgiani, it is in reference to the red light that sits on the roof of the preferred mode of transport of the Brahmgiani, which I do believe to be the Audi Q7.


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## chazSingh (Jun 9, 2015)

harry haller said:


> Without a doubt Brahmgianis truly exist, they keep the flashing red light industry in business!



Harry Ji,

We are not talking about imposters 
we are talking about the rare few who walk this earth doing unimaginable heavy workload of pulling us out of our mental turmoil...

but this is the sickening way of the world we live in at the moment....where we so very quickly generalize.


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## Dalvinder Singh Grewal (Jun 10, 2015)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> The very fact that I receive email all the time about this question means there is _Jagartee_... an  awakening among the Sikhs. We have been fooled all this while simply  because we allowed ourselves to be fooled. We can be fooled only by  those we "trust"... a stranger wouldn't be able to fool us... and those  we trusted are our own.
> 
> We learnt no lesson from our Gurus... cannot we see so clearly that  our Gurus in spite of being Nirankaar... never even used their Names... much  less titles... they used NUMBERS... Mehla 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9. Again and  again they addressed themselves as Neech, Neechan andar neech  jaat... dhadee of Akal Purakh, Dog of the Creator... they sang with people  like Bhai Mardana Ji, they ate with people like Bhai Lalo Ji... they traveled on FOOT like the common people. But when we are reminded of  this... such a storm is raised... just look at the huge outcry over the  Babbu Mann song... Ek Baba Nanak see jis ne  turkeh saree dunia ghaah  tee.. EK aaj Babeh han jisne LAL battee audi gaddee te laatee !! This  song depicting REALITY hurt where it matters... hence the LOUD CRIES of  PROTEST and death threats.
> 
> ...


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## Harry Haller (Jun 10, 2015)

By the very definition of enlightenment, it seems to me that anyone who is truly enlightened would understand the futility in trying to share it. Thus, anyone proclaiming themselves, or allowing themselves to be proclaimed as such, would be an oxy{censored}ic action......


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## Tejwant Singh (Jun 10, 2015)

Ajeet Singh said:


> Reverend Guru Piareo.......Sat Sri Akal..........Wonderful topic & very well discussed indeed. My  life journey  started as VIGIANI & then it reached the stage of AGIANI . As a AGIANI , GURU blessed me to meet a Brahmgiani , who was kind to facilitate in my getting a glimpse (FLASH) of  Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj when I lifted my forehead after bowing before GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE MAHARAJ. However latest finding is that I met an 11 year old BRAHMGIANI who really looks like GURU HAR KRISHAN JEE MAHARAJ. His name is GAGANDEEP SINGH & stays in the village KARTARSAR about 10 KM from PGI CHANDIGARH . This fact is the light of truth . Do you desire to see his latest photograph ? The focus of my expression is to highlight that we are truly self proclaimed Brahmgianies as such enjoy this status to live in comfort zone of ego. I certify myself as a AGIANI ..............DIVINE LOVE


Ajeet Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Sorry to burst your bubble. Sikhi is an idea based way of life not  meant for any idol worshipping. No one knows how our visionary Gurus looked like. In my opinion, it was done on purpose by them because they had all the tools to show their faces through paintings as the Mughal emperors did but they refused to. They did not even want to call themselves Gurus.That is the reason our Gurus who were writers of the Gurbani just gave themselves numbers.

Let's not try to make this beautiful pragmatic way of life in some murti pooja.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Tejwant Singh (Jun 10, 2015)

chazSingh said:


> of course there are some true brahmgiani's...if there were none, then SGGS Ji would be failing miserably in it's task to awaken us.
> Waheguru is trying to awaken us to the truth....when a brahmgiani is walking amongst us, they will also follow this path of awakening us as per waheguru's Will...
> 
> all those who are destined may cross the path of a true brahmgiani...others as per SGGS ji wander aimlessly following their worldly desires...
> all part of the play of life and the game of love..



In my view, what Gurbani tells us that we are all capable of having traits of a Brahamgyani. It has nothing to do with a particular person. Mind you, the word Brahamgyani is of a neutral gender.

When we look for a Brahamgyani outside ourselves, then we can find many Deravaalas and Babas  pretending to be them and many are waiting in queues to get fooled by these confidence tricksters because they are too lazy to have a self effort to understand and practice Gurbani in their lives.

Spoonfeeding is a big NO, NO in Sikhi. The whole SGGS is filled with the tools that we can use in order to become better as humans provided we make an effort.

Hence, the word Brahamgyani becomes an adjective which can only be shone by itself through deeds.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## linzer (Jun 10, 2015)

Brahamgyani are real, They are the people of Sikh coalition  http://www.sikhcoalition.org/about-us
The people at Khalsa Aid   http://www.khalsaaid.org/whoarewe.html and many other such organizations.
Certainly not some "Baba" looking for followers.


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## Dalvinder Singh Grewal (Jun 10, 2015)

Brahmgyani are there, but they do not expose themselves as do the TV wala babas. They have to be sought after and it requires interest and effort.
Dr Dalvinder Singh Grewal


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## Original (Jun 12, 2015)

Gentlemen

From a theological perspective, *Braham* in Sikhism is the timeless being. Taken together with *gyani *and literally interpretated, would mean, someone who is "well versed in God's wisdom".

Gur Ghar confirms this and goes a step further in accepting, *Brahamgyani aap Nirankar [*Sukhmani Sahib*]. *Moreover, on page 721 SGGSJ, Guru Nanak adds, *aapa* *saja* *aapa* *ranga* *aapa nadar kara Nanak kaman kanta bhava aapa he ravay [*Almighty colours and bestows virtues and bring into His fold those deserving].

In essence, yes, there are praise worthy Brahamgyani's who have acquired those very particular status in the house of Nanak and as a result "do" help with the spiritual progress of the individual seeker. And, in some ways posit themselves as the "lighthouses" on the ocean of life in the seeker's cruise. Conversely, there are the rouges and deceits who must be exposed and in so doing weight must be attached to the proponent of this thread in light of his critique.

Thank you - good day !


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## chazSingh (Jun 12, 2015)

dalvinder1945 said:


> Brahmgyani are there, but they do not expose themselves as do the TV wala babas. They have to be sought after and it requires interest and effort.
> Dr Dalvinder Singh Grewal



And they will appear in your life as if by mere co-incidence...but the meeting will be planned by waheguru for the thirsty soul that is ready for the spiritual journey ahead


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## chazSingh (Jun 12, 2015)

Original said:


> Gentlemen
> 
> From a theological perspective, *Braham* in Sikhism is the timeless being. Taken together with *gyani *and literally interpretated, would mean, someone who is "well versed in God's wisdom".
> 
> ...



yes!

and people always get caught up with the physical body of the brahmgiani...they cannot see passed it and start to worship the person..

whereas it is what is occurring within...the light of waheguru that has fully manifest that is the Sant, Brahmgiani, guide, lighthouse...whatever you want to call it...not the physical body

it is also our destiny to reach this, once our ego dissolves...and the light fights through the fog of our mind....waheguru comes forth in all His might and glory


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## Original (Jun 12, 2015)

chazSingh said:


> yes!
> 
> and people always get caught up with the physical body of the brahmgiani...they cannot see passed it and start to worship the person..
> 
> ...



Chaz Ji

Allow me to tweak a little, that is, Brahamgyani's are "conductors" through which flows the "energy" known as "Waheguru". And, Waheguru doesn't come forth, but is rather "constant" and is always present, ready, waiting for the separated soul to ascend and become "one" with [ad sach, jugad sach, havi sach].

Much obliged


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## Tejwant Singh (Apr 15, 2016)

Brahamgyani is a beautiful word which shows both the devotional and the intellect sides of a Sikhi. These are the two oars that we must use in order to navigate on this journey of our lives especially during  the inner storms that are created by ourselves and/or by force majeure. The latter can also be called Hukam.

 Hence for me, Gurbani tells us that if we all are capable of these traits provided we use both oars for our navigation. Guru Nanak, the wordsmith shows this concept beautifully in Jap. " Gaviei, Sunhei, Mann Rakhiei Bhao. Dukh per Har Sukh Ghar Lei Jai". This clearly shows that only being devotional is not enough for a Sikh nor is only being just an intellect.  Linzer ji  eloquently put it  by showing what Brahamgyanis do; like Khalsa Aid, Sikh Coalitions and others like that.

This is the reason, mechanical rituals are a big NO, NO. This muck can only be cleaned by using our Gurmat intellect. Hence, our visionary Gurus were against any Mechanical rituals like parroting, Chanting some word/s repeatedly, Pilgrimages, Fasting, Worshipping deities and other likewise things in any religion make us lose touch with this speck of sand called the Earth.  In other words, by doing this, we handcuff ourselves and make ourselves incapable of immersing in  the Wow and Awe factors of Ik Ong Kaar with which we are all surrounded by both within and outside. Guru Nanak reiterates the same message further down in Jap,"Tirath Navanh, jei Tis Bhavanh". There are many more verses  in the SGGS as multiple reminders and also the tools so we can find the Gurmat Fulcrum within in order to balance the devotional and the intellect parts of ourselves.

The amber of a Brahamgyani is in all of us. We just have to practice what Gurbani urges us to do to light it.

Original ji writes:



> And, in some ways posit themselves as the "lighthouses" on the ocean of life in the seeker's cruise. Conversely, there are the rouges and deceits who must be exposed and in so doing weight must be attached to the proponent of this thread in light of his critique.



Original ji,

"Lighthouses" are there to make people aware not to come near them if they do not want to sink. It is a warning light rather than a welcoming one.

The analogy I have often used in  the past here is  comparing the "Lighthouses" to the Nishaan Sahibs which are the tallest banners of identification at our Gurduaras, so the travellers, irrespective of their hue, creed and faith can find a place for a warm meal and a place to stay. Hence, Nishaan Sahib is the welcoming "Lighthouse" rather than the warning one.

Having said that, I understand what you mean by that in your post above.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## sikh Engineer (Apr 19, 2016)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Its OUR haumaii that IF we seek and we shall find...
> 
> *GURBANI already FOUND IT ALL for us and its open for us in SGGS at all times day and night*. GURU JI spent 250 years on this Earth..to WRITE DOWN the SGGS..of 1429 pages LONG...to Make sure we all KNOW EXACTLY what is required of us..and we dont go "seeking" around like the blind looking for an extra door...soem more time..Fact is NO ONE WILL EVER SAY..I am Happy to GO NOW..given swaas by YOU have EXPIRED..YOUR HUKM SIR MATHEH. Every one wants a few more minutes..a few more days..a few more months..a few more years...WHEN WILL IT REALLY STOP ?? THE FACT is GHALLEH AYEH NANAKA SADDEH UTH JAYEH..WHEN HE CALLS...YOU GO....NO EXCUSES...no delays...no ifs and no buts...JEHA CHEEREE LIKHAYAH.....ITS HIS WISH..to CUT the plant while green..seedling..fully grown..pakkiah hoyah..HE IS THE FARMER..its HIS CROP.
> 
> ...






Wahegur ji ka khalsa 
Whaeguru ji ki fateh

dont have  words very well explained Gyani Jarnail Singh ji


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## chazSingh (Apr 19, 2016)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Brahamgyani is a beautiful word which shows both the devotional and the intellect sides of a Sikhi. These are the two oars that we must use in order to navigate on this journey of our lives especially during  the inner storms that are created by ourselves and/or by force majeure. The latter can also be called Hukam.
> 
> Hence for me, Gurbani tells us that if we all are capable of these traits provided we use both oars for our navigation. Guru Nanak, the wordsmith shows this concept beautifully in Jap. " Gaviei, Sunhei, Mann Rakhiei Bhao. Dukh per Har Sukh Ghar Lei Jai". This clearly shows that only being devotional is not enough for a Sikh nor is only being just an intellect.  Linzer ji  eloquently put it  by showing what Brahamgyanis do; like Khalsa Aid, Sikh Coalitions and others like that.
> 
> ...



nice post ji


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## Sikhilove (May 15, 2016)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> The very fact that I receive email all the time about this question means there is _Jagartee_... an  awakening among the Sikhs. We have been fooled all this while simply  because we allowed ourselves to be fooled. We can be fooled only by  those we "trust"... a stranger wouldn't be able to fool us... and those  we trusted are our own.
> 
> We learnt no lesson from our Gurus... cannot we see so clearly that  our Gurus in spite of being Nirankaar... never even used their Names... much  less titles... they used NUMBERS... Mehla 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9. Again and  again they addressed themselves as Neech, Neechan andar neech  jaat... dhadee of Akal Purakh, Dog of the Creator... they sang with people  like Bhai Mardana Ji, they ate with people like Bhai Lalo Ji... they traveled on FOOT like the common people. But when we are reminded of  this... such a storm is raised... just look at the huge outcry over the  Babbu Mann song... Ek Baba Nanak see jis ne  turkeh saree dunia ghaah  tee.. EK aaj Babeh han jisne LAL battee audi gaddee te laatee !! This  song depicting REALITY hurt where it matters... hence the LOUD CRIES of  PROTEST and death threats.
> 
> ...



Lol! Good post


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## chazSingh (May 19, 2016)

Original said:


> Chaz Ji
> 
> Allow me to tweak a little, that is, Brahamgyani's are "conductors" through which flows the "energy" known as "Waheguru". And, Waheguru doesn't come forth, but is rather "constant" and is always present, ready, waiting for the separated soul to ascend and become "one" with [ad sach, jugad sach, havi sach].
> 
> Much obliged



love the way you describe this...

i remember once during deep meditation...the energy flow was so powerful i felt like i was going to explode into a billion pieces...woosh wooosh woooosh, like a train moving over, through me...

at that moment although i don't really know what occured, i felt the immense power...the immense love flowing through me...unbearably beautiful....if that even makes sense lol


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## Original (May 19, 2016)

chazSingh said:


> love the way you describe this...
> 
> i remember once during deep meditation...the energy flow was so powerful i felt like i was going to explode into a billion pieces...woosh wooosh woooosh, like a train moving over, through me...
> 
> at that moment although i don't really know what occured, i felt the immense power...the immense love flowing through me...unbearably beautiful....if that even makes sense lol


Hi Chaz - hope u kool n deadly, I am ! Thank you for the good words.

Yes, what you describe are our own very experiences. It's these unimaginable, unexplainable experiences that ground us in the Creator and guide us in developing a reverence and comprehension of creation. Spiritualists call them "cosmic wonders". Start jotting them down and study them for meaning; you'll be amazed with the results. It is the process of transformation from the human to the spiritual you - the real Chaz.

Goodnight n Godbless

PS - don't give up the human life on account having found the spiritual for that will tip the balance unfair. Enjoy the amazing gifts of being a human to appreciate the real deal.


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## chazSingh (May 20, 2016)

Original said:


> Hi Chaz - hope u kool n deadly, I am ! Thank you for the good words.
> 
> Yes, what you describe are our own very experiences. It's these unimaginable, unexplainable experiences that ground us in the Creator and guide us in developing a reverence and comprehension of creation. Spiritualists call them "cosmic wonders". Start jotting them down and study them for meaning; you'll be amazed with the results. It is the process of transformation from the human to the spiritual you - the real Chaz.
> 
> ...



ahh yess, the human life...

the forever battle to obtain the complete 6 pack...lunchtime gym sessions...

Wifes just been told she has a vitamin D deficiency...hence the joint pains...and now wants another holiday to soak up some Sun...that's the most expensive Vitamin D supplement we'll ever buy 

also a reminder of just how much we are part of nature and our need for it...


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## Sikhilove (May 22, 2016)

Original said:


> Hi Chaz - hope u kool n deadly, I am ! Thank you for the good words.
> 
> Yes, what you describe are our own very experiences. It's these unimaginable, unexplainable experiences that ground us in the Creator and guide us in developing a reverence and comprehension of creation. Spiritualists call them "cosmic wonders". Start jotting them down and study them for meaning; you'll be amazed with the results. It is the process of transformation from the human to the spiritual you - the real Chaz.
> 
> ...



For people who don't realise, life is about Living- that why we were born, to experience Life from all/ whatever aspects He wants us to. But at the same time practicing Truth-  i.e being Good- living beyond the bullsh*t thoughts and crap. 

Which is why Gurbani says silence your mind. If we get hung up on spiritual experiences, we're not living properly. Similarly if we get hung up on bullsh*t we're not living properly. Live and be good.


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## chazSingh (May 22, 2016)

Sikhilove said:


> For people who don't realise, life is about Living- that why we were born, to experience Life from all/ whatever aspects He wants us to. But at the same time practicing Truth-  i.e being Good- living beyond the bullsh*t thoughts and crap.
> 
> Which is why Gurbani says silence your mind. If we get hung up on spiritual experiences, we're not living properly. Similarly if we get hung up on bullsh*t we're not living properly. Live and be good.



Nice post ji...

Live...care for one another...enjoy the greatness of His creation...

But what if Waheguru decides to take you down the spiritual also?...then what...is that not living also...to enjoy that ride also....

Of course there is no need to get hung up about it and all the experiences...but that is also the 'life' you're talking about...

Life then takes on many different dimensions...not just the physical component...'living' then takes place on all these faces and components of life...

It's all Him...and that's truthfully living...knowing the whole. ..knowing the truth and serving it all...not just one component.

It's the most amazing realisation...that His creation is not just what we see hear taste touch and smell in the physical. 'Life' has much much more to it...'you' have so much more to you...

God bless...


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## Sikhilove (May 23, 2016)

chazSingh said:


> Nice post ji...
> 
> Live...care for one another...enjoy the greatness of His creation...
> 
> ...



We don't have to care for one another, God takes care of everyone and gives everyone what they deserve. A real bhagat only cares about Truth- and living in this frequency. Truth is just a frequency that we vibrate- we silence our minds and just Feel within our beings.

Balanced soul= 9-5 work
6-7 gym
evening meditate
then you can take on a seva.
But we work on ourselves. Maya is a cesspool of bullsh*t mind chatter. When your mind shuts up- then you Truly live. Doing seva helps shut your mind up. The real you is devoid of mayas endless talking and deceit whether it be your own mind, or others bull words and maya reactions.


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## Harry Haller (May 24, 2016)

Sikhilove said:


> We don't have to care for one another, God takes care of everyone and gives everyone what they deserve.



so 1984 is down to God? all the people that got killed and raped that did not get saved, they deserved it right? The cripple in the wheelchair, deserved it? all the folk with HIV, they deserved it too, I suppose it is an easy way of seeing who is not in Gods favour, if your suffering in any way, you deserved it, but you have also said that suffering brings us closer to god, so its a bit confusing. 


Sikhilove said:


> A real bhagat only cares about Truth- and living in this frequency. Truth is just a frequency that we vibrate- we silence our minds and just Feel within our beings.


What if you think you know the truth, is that not a bit dangerous, what if you happen to be wrong, why not just keep the truth to yourself and spare the rest of us


Sikhilove said:


> But we work on ourselves. Maya is a cesspool of bullsh*t mind chatter. When your mind shuts up- then you Truly live.


or maybe you truly die


Sikhilove said:


> The real you is devoid of mayas endless talking and deceit whether it be your own mind, or others bull words and maya reactions.


I would say the real you is how you deal with all of the endless talking and deceit, rather than hiding away in your own conciousness.


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## chazSingh (May 24, 2016)

Sikhilove said:


> We don't have to care for one another, God takes care of everyone and gives everyone what they deserve. A real bhagat only cares about Truth- and living in this frequency. Truth is just a frequency that we vibrate- we silence our minds and just Feel within our beings.
> 
> Balanced soul= 9-5 work
> 6-7 gym
> ...




you said earlier...."do good" - part of that is to look after one another...i.e. don't have the intention to harm another...give someone a hand if they need it etc etc i.e. Selfless Seva...

but then you go and say we don;t need to look after one another.  Make your mind up 
everything you say is great...meditate on Waheguru, do seva, quieten the wayward mind...and the truth becomes visible with Guru Ji's grace.


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## chazSingh (May 24, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> so 1984 is down to God? all the people that got killed and raped that did not get saved, they deserved it right? The cripple in the wheelchair, deserved it? all the folk with HIV, they deserved it too, I suppose it is an easy way of seeing who is not in Gods favour, if your suffering in any way, you deserved it, but you have also said that suffering brings us closer to god, so its a bit confusing.



its not confusing...as you sow, shall you reap...people moan when they are in hardship..."why me"...
if they accept the above equation, then they know why it happened...its what they are reaping from what they had sown...end of. If you don't like that equation...just keep moaning.

The true warriors do something about it....they better themselves...sow good seeds...make a difference...

And i know what your going to say..."how can the people that have died in all those atrocities start to sow better seeds" .... the answer is...you don't die...they don't die...their evolution is continuous even when they shed their physical form.

But how can one know all this...Well Guru Ji tells us how.
if you don;t want to listen to Him, keep moaning and using the same arguments over n over.

people at the top of a mountain have the best view, they see more than the person passing through a dense forest...having that view allows us to see the bigger picture...and live according to that bigger picture...and it's accessible to you...especially now you're in Human form...



> What if you think you know the truth, is that not a bit dangerous, what if you happen to be wrong, why not just keep the truth to yourself and spare the rest of us



Why? why should he do this? If You cannot handle the Truth, you should leave...and return when you can...why should he have to keep the truth to himself...?

Should Guru Ji have kept it all to themselves....the Truth will kick you in the Teeth (Ego)...its hard to take, its why many people that open SGGS Ji after spending many years just bowing to it...don't open it up again....because they can't handle the truth...they have desires to fulfill...they don;t want to know the truth..

Its designed to wake you up....shake you up deep on the inside...make you question everything...make you contemplate no matter how hard it is...no matter how hard it is to see a person in a wheelchair and in the back of your mind know of the above equation...as you sow shall you reap...

Being in the better position...at least you have your hand to offer help with selflessy...and thus in the background, sowing your own seeds...

Also, people living through difficulty and living great lives, doing great things are on many occasions a blessing...they overcome their own internal battles and 'live'...they inspire others, they lift others. 

Everything is Gods Khel...it is Him that is living it...there is no other...and this is the hardest thing to comprehend...and accept...but when you do....oh my gosh, does your life change




> rather than hiding away in your own conciousness.



Greatest discovery is of ones true self...

i often heard people say "the universe exists within you"...and thought what a load of tosh!...lol

i have to say now,,,they speak the truth...everything is accessible via your Body...the 'stargate' as Original Ji calls it lol 

So ...'hiding' away in your consciousness, is in fact...living...being a part of everything...including the physical...


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## Sikhilove (May 24, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> so 1984 is down to God? all the people that got killed and raped that did not get saved, they deserved it right? The cripple in the wheelchair, deserved it? all the folk with HIV, they deserved it too, I suppose it is an easy way of seeing who is not in Gods favour, if your suffering in any way, you deserved it, but you have also said that suffering brings us closer to god, so its a bit confusing.
> 
> What if you think you know the truth, is that not a bit dangerous, what if you happen to be wrong, why not just keep the truth to yourself and spare the rest of us
> 
> ...



Gurbani itself tells the fate of the slanderers and sinners and how we reap what we sow. Either we accept Gurbani 100% or we don't.

Gurbani also says that pain is the remedy and pleasure is the disease because in pleasure we don't really think of God- i'm not saying anything new here, everything I've written has been taught by the great Kings themselves.


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## Sikhilove (May 24, 2016)

chazSingh said:


> its not confusing...as you sow, shall you reap...people moan when they are in hardship..."why me"...
> if they accept the above equation, then they know why it happened...its what they are reaping from what they had sown...end of. If you don't like that equation...just keep moaning.
> 
> The true warriors do something about it....they better themselves...sow good seeds...make a difference...
> ...



Nice post. 

The reason I said we don't have to care about each other is because God already takes care of everyone, Gurbani gives the example of how God takes care of baby flamingos when their parents leave them in their youth, the Master asks who teaches them to eat and who takes care of them?

We can do selfless seva, selfless seva is a divine quality but at the same time, we don't get attached to those we've done seva for, we don't get ego of seva (trishna) and we don't get upset by the state of any affair in the world because it's all Gods doing- as you stated before, his hukam. 

We remain Care Free and Detached like Him.


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## chazSingh (May 24, 2016)

Sikhilove said:


> Nice post.
> 
> The reason I said we don't have to care about each other is because God already takes care of everyone, Gurbani gives the example of how God takes care of baby flamingos when their parents leave them in their youth, the Master asks who teaches them to eat and who takes care of them?
> 
> ...



Waheguru


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## Original (May 24, 2016)

Sikhilove Ji

Forgive me for being oddly pompous, but may I, if you'd permit, request you refrain from using verbal diarrhea in Sikh articles. It's so not language of the Sikhs - thank you ! 

Your writng reflect sound knowledge of Sikh spiritual; I'm proud.


Sikhilove said:


> We don't have to care for one another,


..we do ! We are social animals, dependent upon one another in the bigger scheme of the masters plan.


Sikhilove said:


> God takes care of everyone


...and that God is you on a human level, meaning, that you have a social responsibility. Gurbani says, 'kar bhala ho bhala' [do good reap good].


Sikhilove said:


> A real bhagat only cares about Truth-


...its the truth [sat] that takes care of the Bhagat and the Bhagat, by definition is he who sees Waheguru in all and cares about all.


Sikhilove said:


> Truth is just a frequency that we vibrate- we silence our minds and just Feel within our beings.


..no, its not a frequency but rather a permanent state of being of an eternal existence. Ekonkar exists and has its being in Sikhilove. It is the Anhad Shabd [unstruck sound/vibration] towards which we must gravitate and become one with. And, when we do become one with, the mind ceases to exist [man tu jyot saroop ha apna mool pehchan -p441 SGGSJ].


Sikhilove said:


> Balanced soul= 9-5 work


..what of the unbalanced ?


Sikhilove said:


> 6-7 gym


..training under open sky will do or does it have to be a gym ?


Sikhilove said:


> evening meditate


..or morning...important is meditation !


Sikhilove said:


> then you can take on a seva.


...only by the grace of waheguru


Sikhilove said:


> But we work on ourselves.


100%


Sikhilove said:


> Maya is a cesspool of bullsh*t mind chatter.
> ...maya is female, here today gone tomorrow, enjoy therefore while you can within resonable parameters.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Sikhilove (May 26, 2016)

Original said:


> Sikhilove Ji
> 
> Forgive me for being oddly pompous, but may I, if you'd permit, request you refrain from using verbal diarrhea in Sikh articles. It's so not language of the Sikhs - thank you !
> 
> ...



Hi thank you, and Bullsh*t is the word that best describes maya, I didn't mean to offend you, it's just the best word I am able to use.

Noone is dependant on anyone else, we came alone and we'll go alone. There are people who live off what they grow and live in shacks that they themselves have built.

However in the modern world, we do work together to create a higher standard of living- thats part of the beauty of going to work, we can all contribute and are able to share our earnings, Dasvand if we choose. Yes socialising can be fun and so can networking in general, but the purpose of Gurbani is to teach us to detach and teach others out of the illusion as well. Part of Detachment is not caring about others karam, not pitying anyone else, and only caring about Truth. We can do this while living life, that's what Truthful living is, living free of the chains of the bull... aka the 5 thieves/ Maya.

I get what you're trying to say about God being in everyone so we should care, but God teaches us independance. The Gurus didnt wave a magic wand and give people mukhti, they taught people the Truth reality and people applied this themselves. They taught people how to create better karams for themselves instead of pitying the deserved negative karams that they may have received. Yes helping others is a good deed, but if you are helping someone and making them dependant on you, how will they learn for themselves?

Truth Is a frequency. It is a frequency of a balanced gyan that lives to discover while remaining detached from the nasha of the discovery (highs and lows). Whatever discovery we make, whatever form He comes to us in, we bow and recognise it all as Him. We are never shocked, scared, over excited because its all just Him.

He has no image, form, colour, caste or creed-just True love/ frequency- the Truth reality is a frequency beyond what mortal beings can comprehend. We resonate at this frequency when we apply gurbani to our lives, with surrender to the gyan.


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## chazSingh (May 26, 2016)

Sikhilove said:


> Hi thank you, and Bullsh*t is the word that best describes maya, I didn't mean to offend you, it's just the best word I am able to use.
> 
> Noone is dependant on anyone else, we came alone and we'll go alone. There are people who live off what they grow and live in shacks that they themselves have built.
> 
> ...



From a language point of view...that is unexpectedly a very easy to follow post from you...

Many good points...

Maya is bull*** ... but it is good bull**** lol
It is through it by design hat we play the game of love. ..after fulfilling so many desires we still insist on wanting more...but the thirst never quenches so we use the power of desire to give up all other desires and seek some permanent...how beautiful is that...

We have the chance to radiate true love through the nonsense...

Initially it seems a mess...greed anger desire ego attachment ruling almost everything...but it's because of that we seek the one. It serves it's purpose...a design by waheguru to help us reach infinity.


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## Original (May 27, 2016)

Good morning Sikhilove Ji


Sikhilove said:


> Hi thank you, and Bullsh*t is the word that best describes maya,


..how about nonsense !


Sikhilove said:


> I didn't mean to offend you


..you didn't ! With age comes maturity and with maturity comes wisdom ! I suppose being young n handsome a margin of manipulation for spicy words can be entertained within reasonable jurisdiction. I don't feel Sikh n derogatory language is compatiable and hence the reason for requesting you to choose more favourable words.


Sikhilove said:


> it's just the best word I am able to use.


..expand your vocab a bit ! If you can get hold of Guru Gobind Ji's Zafarnama [letter to Arungzeb] you'll be amazed with the way Guru Ji worded it.


Sikhilove said:


> Noone is dependant on anyone else, we came alone and we'll go alone.


...that;s a myth ! The farmer grows the wheat, the baker bakes it into a loaf and it gets delivered by means of production to your table for consumption - more commonly referred to as society.


Sikhilove said:


> There are people who live off what they grow and live in shacks that they themselves have built.


..Sikhi promotes sangat and pangat, The concept of "panth" is fundamental to both institutional and constitutional Sikhism.


Sikhilove said:


> However in the modern world, we do work together to create a higher standard of living- thats part of the beauty of going to work, we can all contribute and are able to share our earnings, Dasvand


..it isn't just about earning. Look at the natural world, the weak survive and the mild persist on account Waheguru the provider. Humans are cut from a different cloth, they are to live in harmony side by side and understand the meaning of "unity" in diversity.


Sikhilove said:


> Yes socialising can be fun and so can networking in general, but the purpose of Gurbani is to teach us to detach and teach others out of the illusion as well.


...the purpose of Gurbani is to connect with the beautiful, good and the just Sikh that all human race is, including you.


Sikhilove said:


> Part of Detachment is not caring about others karam, not pitying anyone else, and only caring about Truth. We can do this while living life, that's what Truthful living is, living free of the chains of the bull... aka the 5 thieves/ Maya.


...there is no heaven without hell. As brother Chz said, bit of ego, bit of the 5 players makes one healthy and wise to be able to eliminate them from the real deal, meaning, Waheguru.


Sikhilove said:


> We can do this while living life, that's what Truthful living is, living free of the chains of the bull... aka the 5 thieves/ Maya.


..thruthful living is the knowledge, understanding and then walking home to meet the maker. That is what Sikhi is. You don't shut away from the natural world [physical] on account it will lead you to the spiritual world, nay, but rather, head-on meet challenges and excursions which the natural world has to offer and then dismiss them as short-lived pleasures for the real is yet to come.


Sikhilove said:


> I get what you're trying to say about God being in everyone so we should care, but God teaches us independance. The Gurus didnt wave a magic wand and give people mukhti, they taught people the Truth reality and people applied this themselves.


..they were social beings, went to bed with their respected wives, had all the human characteristics that you and I have, had children etc, In short, they were mortal beings, but yes, they had self-control and were able to spiritually exit the confines of time and space and merge with the ONE. They knew the unreal does'nt exist and the real never ceases to be, this they paerceived as seers of "truth" [sat] which is differnet from common notion of "reality". Did you know that ? I didn't, thanks to Gurbani I do now.


Sikhilove said:


> Yes helping others is a good deed, but if you are helping someone and making them dependant on you, how will they learn for themselves?


..look at the time when Peter requested Jesus to fish for him coz he was hungry and Jesus said, "no, I'm not going to fish for you but teach you how to fish so that you never go hungry". Similarly, our Gurus taught us the best of the best and as a result we are cut above the rest [joke].


Sikhilove said:


> Truth Is a frequency. It is a frequency of a balanced gyan that lives to discover while remaining detached from the nasha of the discovery (highs and lows). Whatever discovery we make, whatever form He comes to us in, we bow and recognise it all as Him. We are never shocked, scared, over excited because its all just Him.


,,truth is sat, agree !
..sat is Goid's name [satnam] agree !
..and God is ineffable, agree. If that;d be acceptable then frequency is ruled out since it is both quantifyable and qualitatively calcuable, whereas, Nanak's Satnam [truth] is beyond all calculations.
Yes, there are dimensions, for example, physical, spiritual, emotional, mental, etc and striking the right balance between them, like you say, is good all around. Where Ikonkar "is".....is beyond time n space, none of this frequency business exists...its a permanent "existence".


Sikhilove said:


> He has no image, form, colour, caste or creed-just True love/ frequency- the Truth reality is a frequency beyond what mortal beings can comprehend. We resonate at this frequency when we apply gurbani to our lives, with surrender to the gyan.


..yes, true "love" full stop. He/She is Sikhilove that will first come to understand [gyan/wisdom] the human, the physical, the mental, the emotional within which sits the "spiritual" - the Waheguru. Sikhism is a way of life that "co-exists" within all forms of social and religious organsims. Know thyself first to know the Creator O'human for thee a spiritual being having a human experience. Gurbani is the word of God - live it with eyes open !

Have a good day !


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## Sikhilove (May 28, 2016)

> "Original, post: 207681, member: 14400"]Good morning Sikhilove Ji





> ..how about nonsense !
> ..you didn't ! With age comes maturity and with maturity comes wisdom ! I suppose being young n handsome a margin of manipulation for spicy words can be entertained within reasonable jurisdiction. I don't feel Sikh n derogatory language is compatiable and hence the reason for requesting you to choose more favourable words...expand your vocab a bit ! If you can get hold of Guru Gobind Ji's Zafarnama [letter to Arungzeb] you'll be amazed with the way Guru Ji worded it.



Lol nonsense can also work- to each their own- language is limited anyway, Truth is beyond logic and language.




> ...that;s a myth ! The farmer grows the wheat, the baker bakes it into a loaf and it gets delivered by means of production to your table for consumption - more commonly referred to as society.
> ..Sikhi promotes sangat and pangat, The concept of "panth" is fundamental to both institutional and constitutional Sikhism...it isn't just about earning. Look at the natural world, the weak survive and the mild persist on account Waheguru the provider. Humans are cut from a different cloth, they are to live in harmony side by side and understand the meaning of "unity" in diversity.
> ...the purpose of Gurbani is to connect with the beautiful, good and the just Sikh that all human race is, including you.



You originally said that humans are dependant upon one another, I merely stated that they are not. There are plenty of hermits and jungle folk who get by just fine on their own. 

I pointed out that people in general, especially now, have a higher standard of living and in order to maintain this, as well as due to laws and societal rules, we contribute our part.Some people may also work to make and give daswand.

Yes sikhi does promote sangat and pangat, but 'society' in general does not agree with this- the real outcaste of society is the detached, (who practices truthful living, beyond the 'nonsense' reactions and thoughts in maya) and these souls together, are the real sangat. The detached live life, but live the Truth Psychology whilst living. 

The Gurus introduced sangat and pangat at a time where muslims were killing, raping and plundering, and factions were fighting amongst themselves. The human race and society isn't one big happy family- not everyone gets along and people are still killing raping and plundering, but the Gurus found a way to bring souls who were able to humble themselves enough to enter a Gurdwara together and gave them the opportunity to learn gurbani and truthful living from a teacher- a sangat of students.
The Gurus recognised that sangat should be of the spiritual and temporal and this is how people could live in harmony and unity.

..





> .there is no heaven without hell. As brother Chz said, bit of ego, bit of the 5 players makes one healthy and wise to be able to eliminate them from the real deal, meaning, Waheguru.


How about, there is no heaven or hell- there is no ego, there is no maya, its all just Maharaj teaching us reactions to emotions. If you can stare any image in the khel in the face and recognise this, then you are detached.



> ...truthful living is the knowledge, understanding and then walking home to meet the maker. That is what Sikhi is. You don't shut away from the natural world [physical] on account it will lead you to the spiritual world, nay, but rather, head-on meet challenges and excursions which the natural world has to offer and then dismiss them as short-lived pleasures for the real is yet to come.
> ..they were social beings, went to bed with their respected wives, had all the human characteristics that you and I have, had children etc, In short, they were mortal beings, but yes, they had self-control and were able to spiritually exit the confines of time and space and merge with the ONE.



Truthful living is living in the knowledge that we are already free, the balance already exists- but the discoveries are endless, so we keep on discovering whilst detaching from the face of the khel.

I never said we shut ourselves up from the world, we embrace dukh and sukh head on, with the knowledge that they are all just Parbrahm. We can still feel pain and pleasure because they are there to be discovered- but we recognise them as Him. It's a psychology, if you're living a messed up psychology, you're in attachment to the illusion, i.e you believe it to be real.

Agreed that the Gurus still lived their lives, we are born to live- but their psychology and reactions were of advanced Truth. They were immortal because of the psychology they lived, they Applied and Lived the gyan of Gurbani. We are already merged, we just don't realise/ forget it. They lived the life experience like everyone else, whilst remembering the gyan, out of True Love. Hence they did not anger, they did not lie, they were not lustful, greedy, envious or jealous. Faced with souls who lived these qualities, they recognised them as the Creator.



> They knew the unreal does'nt exist and the real never ceases to be, this they perceived as seers of "truth" [sat] which is different from common notion of "reality". Did you know that ? I didn't, thanks to Gurbani I do now.
> ..look at the time when Peter requested Jesus to fish for him coz he was hungry and Jesus said, "no, I'm not going to fish for you but teach you how to fish so that you never go hungry". Similarly, our Gurus taught us the best of the best and as a result we are cut above the rest [joke].



Yes they did teach us, and taught us so we can apply the True teachings ourselves (independence- detachment).
They taught us to accept ourselves as lowest of the low, as we truly are nothing- no colour no image no form- no Ego- thats the Truth, and that is Nirboah and Nirvair.



> ,,truth is sat, agree !
> ..sat is Goid's name [satnam] agree !
> ..and God is ineffable, agree. If that;d be acceptable then frequency is ruled out since it is both quantifyable and qualitatively calcuable, whereas, Nanak's Satnam [truth] is beyond all calculations.
> Yes, there are dimensions, for example, physical, spiritual, emotional, mental, etc and striking the right balance between them, like you say, is good all around. Where Ikonkar "is".....is beyond time n space, none of this frequency business exists...its a permanent "existence".



Agreed about the frequency, but if it were to be described in language (and language is limited) that would be what it is. Even anhad naad is just a Symbolic reflection of Truth- it doesnt exist. 



> ..yes, true "love" full stop. He/She is Sikhilove that will first come to understand [gyan/wisdom] the human, the physical, the mental, the emotional within which sits the "spiritual" - the Waheguru. Sikhism is a way of life that "co-exists" within all forms of social and religious organsims. Know thyself first to know the Creator O'human for thee a spiritual being having a human experience. Gurbani is the word of God - live it with eyes open !



Rather, All Is the spiritual, the Nothingness, because thats what we are- simply projections of The Truth that the True King himself discovered Himself to be. He is One.



> Have a good day !



Thank you, I hope you enjoyed yours


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