# Need Guidance In Understanding A Line From SGGS



## hps (May 3, 2007)

Dear friends/respondents

The following line appears in SGGS. 

khu kbIr AKr duie BwiK ] (329-18, gauVI, Bgq kbIr jI)
Says Kabeer, chant the two letters of the Lord's Name - Raa Maa.

The English Translation appears to be slightly different than what appears on the face.Should one take the 'Naam' as 'Rama'.? To me the line , as tanslated, seems to be skewed.Is it a correct translation by some learned author and further is it ok. if one starts chanting 'Rama' instead of 'waheguru' in the light of the translation.

Would be ever grateful for the clarification.Kindly correct me in my inference as well.
Regards
hps 



----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------


----------



## Cool (May 3, 2007)

Dear Hps ji,
A nice question needs a similar reply.I have made an effort to explain 'Naam' and its relevance in the context of Sikh religion.It will answer your queries as well that you have on some other posts.
Your observation ,on the face of it, seems to be correct.The inference is ok.However,it is the Bani of Kabeer ji.He might have taken recourse to the naam of 'Rama'. In the case of sikhs the general reference is understood to be 'waheguru' and some suggest that even 'satnam' would be ok.There is no standardisation of 'naam' as such.Even 'waheguru' is not stated to be 'Naam'.It is in practice though.I am quoting below extracts of an Article and hope you will like it.God has many names and he can be remembered by any name.Read it and enjoy it. I have removed the material that contained reference to some researches. [I shall send you that article, if required.You may send a private message giving me your mail id]
In nut-shell
The Word, or the Divine Name, is the indwelling revealer of God. It is the cosmic Principle, the cause of all Creation and identified with the Holy Spirit and Creative Transformative Power of God. A Divine Name is the Divine Essence in one or the other of its infinite aspects. The Divine Essence is the One Universal Substance and is identical with Absolute Reality.

In Sikhism, philosophically, an identity of spirit is clearly recognised, based on the concept of the Logos, between the Divine Name (NAAM), or the Word of God, the spirit of the prophets and Gurus, and the Divine presence or the Light of God.
Naam-The Language of Divine Power
According to Guru Nanak everything in the universe is created by the power of Divine Name (NAAM) and without the Divine Name there is no way (The Japji, Pauri 19). He explains that all the visible forms are held by the Divine Name; everything takes its rise from the Divine Name and is again absorbed in it. The Divine Name is the essence of the four Vedas and is the repository of the True Reality. The Divine Name is synonymous with the Divine Word or Sabad.
God is the Ultimate Reality which has innumerable Names assigned to Him and the Names are identical with His being. There is no difference between His Being and His Name. The Name, Form and the essential Nature of God are the same; there is no difference between them – all the three are conscious and sublime bliss by nature. Guru Nanak says –

Hearkening to the Name bestows
Truth, divine wisdom, contentment,
To bathe in the joy of the Name
Is to bathe in the holy places. The Japji, Pauri 10.
Name and Potency
Name is the potency of God, who, in the pre-creation stage, existed without a Name. It is the agency through which God Creates. It is the spirit of God and the enlightened and purifier of the soul. Name has created everything in this universe.
Guru Nanak emphasizes on the recitation of the Divine Name (NAAM) which stands for God and His Creative Transformative Power and is the most powerful and effective means of attaining identity with the Divine Being. For attuning with God, Simran, or remembrance, and repeating of the Divine Name, or invocation, enables the disciple to reach that stage of absorption where he finds himself in His presence; it is a simple yet very efficacious method for internal spiritual growth of the disciple and supplies inexhaustible stores of energy and vitality for concentration and paves the way for reaching the Lord – the ultimate objective of one’s life.
All names to stand for God
All these names stand for the same God. To these Names of God more Names have been added by the Sikh Gurus, such as, Piara, Pritam, Mitter, Sajjan, Satguru, Waheguru, etc..
God belongs to all religions. He does not belong to any particular religion. This broader outlook of Guru Nanak led him to the conception of a secular God, and the rejection of a sectarian one. In the Sukhmani (Ashtpadi, 3, Pauri 8), Guru Arjun Dev affirms –


Of all Religions the best Religion is:

To utter the Holy Name with adoration,
And to do good deeds.

Waheguru and significance to Sikhs 
However, now Waheguru – Wondrous Lord – has assumed a special significance as a name of God for the Sikhs as, for instance, Allah is for the Muslims, Ram and Ishwar for the Hindus. This development took place much after the formation of the Khalsa. Wahe-guru is not so much a name of God as the expression of the entire feeling of elation which man gets from an aesthetic experience of nature and of the cosmology.
Guru Nanak frequently uses the word ‘Sabad’ in place of the Divine Name. Sabad, or the Divine Word, is believed to have descended directly from the Divine Spirit, in which the Divine Knowledge is embodied and is the power and potency of God Himself. Therefore, Sabad, the Divine Word, the Divine Name and NAAM are synonymous with the True Reality. Says Guru Nanak, in Asa-di-Var:

God created Himself
And assumed a Name
Second, besides Himself,
He created Nature.
Seated in Nature He watches 
With delight what He creates. Rag Asa (SGGS-463)
If the Divine Word of the Guru remains in the heart of a disciple, it is believed, he is always free from any kind of fear, anxiety and pain; he remains indifferent to joy or grief and maintains his equanimity under the most stressful and trying conditions.
Word, or the Divine Name.
It is the way of His expression. The phenomenal world is the attribute with which God is described. The attributes of God can be found only in an outward expression or manifestation in the external world. Besides, it is through these attributes that God manifests His creative activities in the world. Therefore everything of this world is an aspect of the Divine Name, or the Word, to which it owes its existence.There is no value that is more valuable than the Name of God. The Divine Name is a priceless wealth, it is eternal and True. It cannot be destroyed by fire, death or any other means.Help youself with any type of 'Naam' the end result should be 'deliverance'.Hope you will enjoy this and should dispell your fears.
I have taken every care to check this for errors.However, english is not my first language.Hence the errors may be excused.
yours
cool
E&OE


----------



## spnadmin (May 3, 2007)

Cool ji

Everything you say works for me.


----------



## hps (May 4, 2007)

Thank you Sir, for your kind explanation.I have some doubts that are posted in some other thread.Would you be kind enough to let me have the understanding of those as well. These are all related to Naam and Shabad.
Regards
hps


----------



## Cool (May 4, 2007)

Hi hps ji...ssa ji.  
I would be willing to answer all your doubts.However, I am not any expert on these things but I do read.You may kindly put your questions here in this post itself.I shall make an attempt to the best of my knowledge.
thanks
coolwhspr


----------



## hps (May 4, 2007)

Respected Cool ji

I am giving below my doubts as have been posted in some other thread and that I have not understood.You may kindly explain whenever you have the time. 
What exactly is the meaning of 'Shabad' and 'Naam'.?These words have appeared in the entire SGGS at many places.Kindly expand for the benefit of the viewers.It has appeared at so many places that it seems that 'Shabad' is not to mean as we ordinarily interpret.imilarly 'Naam' appears to have special meaning. 

"ijin syivAw iqin pwieAw mwnu ]

Those who serve Him find the reality about Him (the proof of His existence), they are accepted gracefully at His Dargah and are liberated from the bondage."

The above is quoted for the benefit of discussion.

1.What is the exact meaning of 'who serve HiM'.What kind of service will be qualified to enable one to find the reality about HIM.Is the service to be made in some physical form like charity to poor or remembering HIM.KIndly explain?It appears that HE is to be served .Is it so.?Please help.

Thanks and regards. 

hps


----------



## simpy (May 4, 2007)

*Respected cool ji ,*

*can you explain the following line more elaborately-*


			
				Cool said:
			
		

> The attributes of God can be found only in an outward expression or manifestation in the external world.


 
*by reading through all you wrote- the use of word 'only' in this line- makes the whole theory of yours fall apart, respected coolwhspr ji.*

*what about- Anaam, Niranjan, alekh, abhekh, Nirankaar, and many more attributes (in seen & unseen and outword & inward expression) .................................*

*sorry for the interruption..... ....... .........*
*to me neech it(this line) sounds exactly like Radha Swaami Shiv Dyaal Singh Ji's phylosophy..........*
*And 'GRACE OF GOD' aspect is totally missing in the whole writting of yours, respected coolwhspr ji, what happened to that part. as that is the most importanr one, without this aspect-NOTHING HAPPENS.........*

*Sikh phylosophy is neither totally equivalent to the Greek Concept of Logos, some major differences do exist between the two concepts. you may call it the **nearest equivalent........*
*Sikh phylosophy cannot be called entirely based on Logos Concept......*


*Dear and Respected hps Ji,*

*these are your words from thread - Naam Simran and Shabads, you posted a couple of days ago....*



			
				hps said:
			
		

> Hi..friends.
> Gurbani is as simple as it is authored and compiled.We make it complicated ourselves.if we devote sometime, we are likely to understand most of it.there will always be some doubts about the meanings of some verses.There may also be some difficulty in integrating the contents with the contexts.well ,it shall remain as it ios comp[pilation.Same words have been used to employ different meanings at different places in Gurbani.
> I also carried the notion that we are to understand the entire gurubani before we practice and integrate the concepts.I have stopped doing that and do my job with whatever little knowledge I possess.I think no one can dispell the doubts of another person. We shall do better by interpreting things in our own ways.It is like fighting your own battles. No one is better for one thinks that one understands better than another.It is not sne can never be perfect.
> It is only the meditation that can help us and can bring nearer to HIm.It is the essence of the entire Gurbani.We have to make efforts to purge and purify ourselves to attain HIs blessings.That seems to be the entire purpose of Gurbani.Remember HIm and do your job as is prescribed.It is not very useful to stick to the meaning of someone else.It is second hand knowledge.
> ...


 
*no wonder you agreeing with all what respected Coolwhspr ji is saying even after declaring you have stoppped taking advice......*



*forgive me please*


----------



## Cool (May 4, 2007)

Limitations of Language in expression in Gurbani
Hi Hps ji,

I shall take up the questions that you have posed to me.It may kindly be noted that all of us are essentially students of Bani. We keep on learning and learning till we live.

Limitations on account of language: How's and Why's
What I percieve of a particular line may not be perceived the same by other.The simple reason for this can be explained by the fact that our knowledge of the language whether the first language or even our mother tongue is too little to effectively convery our thoughts into words or I should say that no language is too rich that it can vehiculate our thoughts in such a fashion that the interpretor or the reader of the script can debug the exact meaning that was thought to be conveyed.It is not a simple task at all.Be it English or Punjabi we are handicapped on account of these two reasons.
Diofference of perceptions
Even if want to convey the color of an apple we cannot do so exactly as an apple and its color cannot be described as it is not uniform over the entire body of the apple.We ,thus, cannot convey that we want to convey.The second difficulty arises on the fact of the non-standardisation of the vocabulary.In different parts of the worlds the same word can carry different shades and hence the meaning.There is every possibility that what has been modulated by the sender is not properly demodulated while downloading the message that is supposed to be conveyed.We have to convey our thoughts within this limitation that is put upon .If we were to sit face to face the things would have been simpler.
Limitations should not stop us from discussing
But then limitations should not govern us and guide us in our endeavours to convey that is to be conveyed. One should be armed with sufficient vocabulary so that we can atleast continue to exchange our thoughts.
lack of appreciation of Dialect 
I have been prompted to write this that we are trying to discuss and explain something that was authored about five centuries ago.There may be difference of opinions on this count. However, the essential truth does not vary.Gurbani is authored in Gurmukhi lipi.However, the language is admixture of many types of dialects of the time.Hence the difficulty. What I interpret of particular may not be ,necessarily, acceptable to you. But then it does not empower you with a right to diacard the same. There will be ,atleast, meeting of minds on the essentials.Nor should one stick one's guns and be adament.We can differ in a manner that we are still friends and leave some scope of mutual discussion. There is no scope of an argument in these kinds of discussions.No one is superior in the matter of interpretations. It is only a theoretical knowledge that we are likely to share not the practical knowledge.We have our own expressions. If you differ with me you have all the rights to differ and let any one else also differ.It is not to effect you or me.We are all in a democratic set up and are all discussing something that has been respected by all intellectuals and philosphers.However, the language of Sri Guru Granth sahib cannot be debugged by ay individual. 
It is not the monopoly of any body and none can ever say that.One would be foolish even to admit this.As 'bani' has been said to be 'Guru' in our scriptures and 'Guru' being ,something,beyond explanations and descriptions I have all the presumptions and presuppositions that we should peacefully carry on with our task of understanding each other's point of view and increase our visible power and power to landscape the dry terrain of our grey cells that lie in the organ called brain which is also have a direct linkage with our so called mind.Our intellect is primarily governed by our mind power and interpreted in consonance by our brain that has 12 billion tiny cells.Each cell is interconnected with the other thru synpase.Such is our wonderful body and such a wonderful is our creator.If HE has given us such organs that are beyond description it leads to the fact that man made things are likely to be far from perfection.My language may have hurt someone.It is none of mine or someone's fault.It is always like this only.It is just like explaining of an elephant by the five blind persons.None acclaimed better knowledge of the elephant as they perceived that part to be an elephant that they touched and felt. Similarly our knowledge is so limited that we cannot interpret Gurbani in exactly the same fashion as was intended to have been authored when it was authored.There are practical difficulties. But one does make an attempt in one's humble manner.
Lack of early Translations of scriptures
These difficulties have amplified on account of the fact that there is not proper translation of scriptures that should have been done at the time when it was authored.things would have been simpler if some had taken the effort about five centuries ago. In any case there is a problem area and we should all recognise this.Hence that what one write may not mean the same that the author intended to have been meant.Hence there has to be in built margin of error aand benefit of doubt to be given to the person. In all humility I should have done this to anyone.In fact one should stop fault finding approach that some of my friend do adopt.This is not a school and none is superior to another even if one believes it to be so.

The best way is to avoid fault finding in the field of religion or sprituality as both do mingle at some point or the other.

I shall start with this background only with a clear understanding that fault finding is not the pre rogative that anyone can have on account of any misconception that one carries.It is may not be tolerable to some human being.

Questions asked

"What exactly is the meaning of 'Shabad' and 'Naam'.?These words have appeared in the entire SGGS at many places.Kindly expand for the benefit of the viewers.It has appeared at so many places that it seems that 'Shabad' is not to mean as we ordinarily interpret.Similarly 'Naam' appears to have special meaning. "
I shall revert back to your question after sometime if there is no intermittent interruption.It will require some home work and I am very grateful to you for providing me an opportunity of learning and revising my concepts.Pl. carry on with your meditation ,that is more important than theory.
kindly excuse me for mistakes . I shall edit it tomorrow,if it is feasible.I take yoour leave now.
Coolwhspr


----------



## simpy (May 4, 2007)

*Respected coolwhspr Ji,*

*very kind words,*
*FYI- Base Meaning of Gurbani doesn't change, One cannot say that Guru's Phylosophy is based on Logos, beacuse he/she thought so. Waheguru is God- can we change that truth?*
*Guru is God, Gurbani is Nirankaar, All the aspects of God described in Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji cannot be changed, ONLY WORDS CHANGE according to Language. BUT EVERY LANGUAGE HAS SOMTHING, may not be exact but something(some word) there that can be used. *

*Nobody is stopping you to post your views, but questions will be asked and explanations may also be given when something doesn't appear to be according to Gurmat..... one must be ready to share others opinion, when sharing his/her own opinion on a public forum. *

*We are humans and are talking in HUMAN LANGUAGE. WATER REMAINS WATER- doesn't matter what language we speak, respected coolwhspr ji.....*

*as none of my previous questions were answered, i am humbly repeating them once again:*

*can you explain the following line more elaborately-*



			
				Cool said:
			
		

> _The attributes of God can be found only in an outward expression or manifestation in the external world._


 
*by reading through all you wrote- the use of word 'only' in this line- makes the whole theory of yours fall apart, respected coolwhspr ji.*

*what about- Anaam, Niranjan, alekh, abhekh, Nirankaar, and many more attributes (in seen & unseen and outword & inward expression) .................................*

*sorry for the interruption..... ....... .........*
*to me neech it(this line) sounds exactly like Radha Swaami Shiv Dyaal Singh Ji's phylosophy..........*
*And 'GRACE OF GOD' aspect is totally missing in the whole writting of yours, respected coolwhspr ji, what happened to that part. as that is the most importanr one, without this aspect-NOTHING HAPPENS.........*

*Sikh phylosophy is neither totally equivalent to the Greek Concept of Logos, some major differences do exist between the two concepts. you may call it the **nearest equivalent........*
*Sikh phylosophy cannot be called entirely based on Logos Concept......*

*i may humbly ask more questions based on the above post later, as these ones are answered.....*

*humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness*


----------



## kaur-1 (May 4, 2007)

Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Respected cool ji ,*
> 
> *can you explain the following line more elaborately-*
> 
> ...



Surinder Bhenji, Cool ji's article post is from Sikhreview

Naam: The Language of Divine Power

by a "*Ravi M. Chopra"*

I also agree with your comment "*Radha Swaami Shiv Dyaal Singh Ji's philosophy.........."

*One has to be very careful of what one reads on the www.*
*


----------



## Cool (May 4, 2007)

Respected Surinder kaur ji,
SSA
A lot more has to come on this topic.Kindly wait for some time till I am on this thread with hps ji. I would kindly suggest you to make out your questions, enlist them properly as to what exactly you want to know.I shall take up these questions and shall let it be known. You should not be jumping out of your shoes while asking a question.I have to take care of the basic purpose of the thread i.e. as has been put forward by hps ji .I shall quote from your post that it shall be difficult for me if an educated person like you starts crying from the roof top.Further these questions are very basics. I would recommend that you read the Books from the SGPC publications.I do refer to them myself.These are really helpful.I do not know where you live so that I could have suggested you the place where to buy from.

sincerely 
Coolwhspr
P.S.
Reward of patience is always good.I do Hope you shall bear with me.It is your choice read it and follow it or skip it. You are free to start a thread of your own and you may invite me for one to one discussion. I shall look into it.
Had your question been so important I would have given it due weightage.As it is not so, i am constrained to admit that I shall take up the questions, if you put them and enlist them properly for my perusal.Rest assured a lot more is coming.Please wait.I reassure you that your doubts shall be clearly removed before this thread is over. 
coolwhspr


----------



## simpy (May 4, 2007)

*Respected coolwhspr ji*

*endless thanks to you for not responding to my questions. *

*please cool down. With God's Grace this neech is totally aware of Logos concept. so asked you the question, you choose not to answer, no problems. my question is important, as it points towards the basic difference. and by not responding to it- it makes it clear in me neech's understanding that you are not much aware of what you writting..... *

*anyways you go on with your explanations. but as something will go against Gurmat please expect some questions, as if no true sikh speakup for it, who will????*
*In this case of LOGOS CONCEPT, yes it means Word, fine but when we go into the details, the basic thing that is different is Dhan Dhan Guru Sahibaan also believed that Realization IS ACHIEVED BY HIS NADAR ONLY. this fact is totally missing from LOGOS concept. Same way there are some other issues aswell. So Dear and Respected Scholar Ji, please practice patience, while you read and explore something and you teach to others.*
*And you are telling me about SGPC, several times it had happened that SGPC released a book then later they had to ban it, they announced decisions and then they had to change them, may be there are books talking about LOGOS, suggest which ones, i will go over them and we will see, we can suggest it to SGPC if the books are saying that Sikh Phylosophy is based on LOGOS THEORY completely, i can expain what basic differences are, and there are some major ones. May be the writer was not paying attention to other aspects of GOD, while writting that book, and SGPC could not notice that either, WE ARE HUMANS, mistakes can happen.......*


*you can still refer to the books, these days there are online libraraies, that can provide any book to any body(members), SO WILL NOT BE A PROBLEM AT ALL....*

*and any book can get shipped from anywhere in the world within a matter of days  ....*

*AND ONE VERY IMPORTANT THING ME NEECH HAVE NOTICED- PLEASE DON'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY THOUGH, IT MAY NOT BE IMPORTANT FOR OTHERS: i think both of you respected hps ji and respected coolwhspr ji went to the same school to learn English as both of you in your English writting don't use spaces between sentences very often.....*




			
				hps Ji said:
			
		

> To me the line , as tanslated, seems to be skewed.Is it a correct translation by some learned author and further is it ok. if one starts chanting 'Rama' instead of 'waheguru' in the light of the translation.





			
				hps Ji said:
			
		

> Would be ever grateful for the clarification.Kindly correct me in my inference as well.


 


			
				Cool Ji said:
			
		

> A lot more has to come on this topic.Kindly wait for some time till I am on this thread with hps ji. I would kindly suggest you to make out your questions, enlist them properly as to what exactly you want to know.I shall take up these questions and shall let it be known. You should not be jumping out of your shoes while asking a question.I have to take care of the basic purpose of the thread i.e. as has been put forward by hps ji .I shall quote from your post that it shall be difficult for me if an educated person like you starts crying from the roof top.Further these questions are very basics. I would recommend that you read the Books from the SGPC publications.I do refer to them myself.These are really helpful.I do not know where you live so that I could have suggested you the place where to buy from.


 
*same style- Wow!!!!!!*

*forgive me please*


----------



## hps (May 5, 2007)

Dear Cool ji
SSA. ji.

Very many thanks for the beautiful post as above. I think the dust will settle within some days. I have gone through with dismay as to how someone is spoiling the peace of this thread. In any case this is not important for me .You may answer me when you are at peace. I never expected this kind of response from the educate persons on this web-site else I would not have been to this site. It is a great distraction. NO one can force anyone to answer. If one has to ask some question for the removal of doubt one should make a request in civil society. I cannot say as to what will one do if one does not fall within the parameters of the civil. Of what use is the learning that does not bring about humility that is an ornament of the practicing sikh and of good human beings. It is one’s culture and upbringing that is material.

If a person knows something and is still makes a nuisance one can draw some conclusions as to the intentions. However, it should not be the cause of any trouble as It is a great sin to break one's vow that one takes before coming to this world. Wealth and youth are transient and only love of God and His adorations are stable. The acrobatic mind can be controlled by making it to climb the feet of the Lord by constant simran. In this world HIS divine name is real. With one-pointed mind, one should meditate on the One Lord, and the doubts of your mind will be dispelled. Forever and ever, worship and adore Him. Day and night, do not forget Him. One whose destiny is so pre-ordained, obtains the Lord of the Universe as his Companion. Even the ungrateful ones are cherished by God . He is forever the Forgiver. It is also true that God Himself acts, and causes others to act; everything is in His Hands. This is the general teaching that one gets from SGGS. Some one are always disturbing the peace but it has been stated that there is no use of bathing at sacred shrines of pilgrimage, when the filth of stubborn pride is within the mind? The Treasure of the NAAM is acquired, and the mind reaps the lasting profit. If He grants His Grace, then we obtain it. We cannot find it by our own efforts. It is all that I have learnt so far about the ‘Naam’ and ‘shabad’. You have already explained that shabad and Naam can be, at many places, be deemed to be used in exactly similar fashion. Rest is the contextual usage. All that I wanted to know is clear. I have not to become a teacher of Gurbani. Whenever I am in doubt about the interpretation of a particular word I shall refer it to you.
Respected Cool ji you may like to answer the questions only when the dust has settled. In the meantime I shall keep on studying SGGS and come up to with my doubts. You are not bound to answer anyone who is simply a nuisance and is not a positive contruibutor to the thread.

That is the essence of the scriptures, and that is a good omen, by which one comes to chant the Name of the Lord. Offer your prayers to Him, who shall unite you with the Creator. In any case you have already explained the meaning of ‘Shabad’ in a beautiful manner. I have learnt that one should Practice truth, contentment and kindness; this is the most excellent way of life. 

I have gone through first 350 pages of SGGS only and do read about 10 pages or so daily so that I can integrate the concepts. I need not discuss further unless you intend to do so and explain with the help of some lines of SGGS.

With Warm Regards.
hps

Respected Cool ji.

My message has wrongly been placed as above Surinder ji's post .I do not know as to how to rectify this mistake. You may kindly start as and when you feel like.
Regards
hps


----------



## hps (May 5, 2007)

Kaur-1 ji,
I am indebted to you foi giving me the reference to the magazine that has dealt with the artilce about the power of 'Naam' .It has been of great use to me. Thanks once again.Atleast I am now acquainted with the concept of Logos and Kalme as Muslims call it. Some where in the translation of SGGS it has appeared in the form of Sound current.
Thanks once again for your kindness.
Regards
hps


----------



## simpy (May 5, 2007)

hps said:
			
		

> I think the dust will settle within some days. I have gone through with dismay as to how someone is spoiling the peace of this thread. In any case this is not important for me .You may answer me when you are at peace. I never expected this kind of response from the educate persons on this web-site else I would not have been to this site. It is a great distraction. NO one can force anyone to answer. If one has to ask some question for the removal of doubt one should make a request in civil society. I cannot say as to what will one do if one does not fall within the parameters of the civil. Of what use is the learning that does not bring about humility that is an ornament of the practicing sikh and of good human beings. It is one’s culture and upbringing that is material.
> 
> If a person knows something and is still makes a nuisance one can draw some conclusions as to the intentions. However, it should not be the cause of any trouble as It is a great sin to break one's vow that one takes before coming to this world.




*endless thanks to you hps ji for your nice comments. this nuisance as stated by you, also seems like cannot cause any trouble(your own words). Sorry for the* *inconvenience though. As i stated before- we are on a public forum, so how when something doesn't seem right you expect no humble interruptions. anyways that is your choice to think whatever. *
*for your conveinence your next question is posted down here(which you say got obstructed by my post)*


			
				hps said:
			
		

> Respected Cool ji
> 
> I am giving below my doubts as have been posted in some other thread and that I have not understood.You may kindly explain whenever you have the time.
> What exactly is the meaning of 'Shabad' and 'Naam'.?These words have appeared in the entire SGGS at many places.Kindly expand for the benefit of the viewers.It has appeared at so many places that it seems that 'Shabad' is not to mean as we ordinarily interpret.imilarly 'Naam' appears to have special meaning.
> ...




*just a note- this is done just to bring general awareness Respected hps ji and Respected coolwhspr ji, nothing is against you in particular. There is a lot of stuff on the www. that may not be according to Gurmat, as kaur ji brought up the article information. Just be careful. Please continue.....*


----------



## GuruPyaara (May 5, 2007)

Thanks Surinder ji and kaur-1 ji for clarifying the above disscussion, Sorry cool ji you made that very confusing in the end of your first post. After reading Surinder ji, everything cleared out. Thanks once again Surinder Ji.


----------



## hps (May 7, 2007)

Respected Surinder Kaur Ji.

RE: please serialize your doubts and questions. 

You seem to be associated with the management of this site and you are changing and editing the posts of mine and as well of Mr. cool. This you should not do especially in the threads where you yourself are a seeker and have to get your doubts clarified. You have edited most of my posts.Please stop doing this in future if you want participation. The practice is unethical.


Why I started this thread independently

1.I had started this thread on account of your tacitunity and you did not reply to my posts at all in a satisfactory manner. 

Your comments were full of Sarcasm, may be you have a fair knowledge of Gurbani. It does not make you a superior human being at all. It makes you knowledgeable, may be, only. I do not want to discuss anything from a person who has taken this to her head and possess strong ego. Anyway some people are not cut to see that others do exist.

Mr. Cool has provided me valuable information. You are simply becoming a hindrance and taking out an opportunity for most of us to learn from Mr cool.

2. Non-co-operation and disturbance to the thread.

Inspite of the requests you have not serialized your questions.
Kindly serialize your doubts and as promised by him yoiuir questions will be answered. If you have a problem in serializing your questions, it is your problem and not mine.

3. Your Doubts : As perceived by me.

It is safe to presume that you know most of the things and are here to disturb the progress of the thread. I would again request you before abandoning this site to kindly let me know the following:

a.
What is against Sikhism in the above? It should be amplified in the above write ups.

b.In one of your earlier post you have said 

“Waheguru is God- can we change that truth?”If it is your doubt please let me know. I will answer this in detail for your benefit and for the benefit of the others as well. Pl. Stop kidding like a babe.

c. Logos concept- something that I do not know and what is your doubt, please put in a sentence as to what is making you comfortable.
I do not think that SGGS contain anything about as to how to reach the pious ‘word’. However, if you have some documented reference that it is against Sikhism please let us know. Anything vaguely stated is likely to create doubt about something that is not yet fully developed in Sikh world.In any case everything happens as per HIS will or Nadar [ as you have stated to be alter name of God's Grace]

d. Why are you secretive about any site from which it is stated that material has been taken.? Kindly give the full address of the site unless it is of some Terrorists. Please feel free 


I can answer your questions like ‘whether ‘“Waheguru is God- can we change that truth?”

I am not interested in logos as my purpose is served with the limited knowledge that has been imparted to me.However , if you are willing I shall start a new thread for your and my benefit and we will get many learned and serious people to discuss this.
Kindly change your focus.
No one is taking away your audience from you as you are an expert and authority on entireline of Sikhi and sikh philosphy. 
Best wishes and Good day 
hps


----------



## simpy (May 7, 2007)

hps said:


> Respected Surinder Kaur Ji.
> 
> RE: please serialize your doubts and questions.
> 
> You seem to be associated with the management of this site and you are changing and editing the posts of mine and as well of Mr. cool. This you should not do especially in the threads where you yourself are a seeker and have to get your doubts clarified. You have edited most of my posts.Please stop doing this in future if you want participation. The practice is unethical.


 
*Respected hps ji,*

*i have not edited any body's posts at all.*

*MULTIPLE POSTS ARE MERGED TOGETHER, AS PER MANAGEMENT HAS GUIDED ME.*

*IT IS DONE ALL THE TIME, WHEN THERE ARE POSTS MADE BY SAME PERSON, Around ABOUT SAME TIME-ONE AFTER ANOTHER..........in a continous serial.*

*sorry about the Confusion  *

*forgive me please*

*Respected Sadh Sangat Ji,*

*there are other people who were also confused and they got the things clarified after i posted my questions and explanations *



			
				GuruPyaara said:
			
		

> Thanks Surinder ji and kaur-1 ji for clarifying the above disscussion, Sorry cool ji you made that very confusing in the end of your first post. After reading Surinder ji, everything cleared out. Thanks once again Surinder Ji.


 
*forgive me please*


----------



## Cool (May 7, 2007)

*NAAM* *and its significance in SGGS ji*

The word ‘naam ‘ has appeared for about more than 2500 times as per the search engine of the site [http://www.srigranth.org]. This is a site that provides detailed downloads of SGGS and various translations. One may refer to it. If one starts analyzing from this point it can be calculated that ‘naam’ appears more than 1to 1.5 times on average per page of SGGS translation. It is, but natural, for anyone to find out the importance and significance of the term ‘naam’. In fact, to me, it appears that it is one of the most commonly used words in the SGGS English Translation. One can also find out the importance by finding out the usage of this word ‘naam’ on some other translations. Similarly in ‘Sentence By Sentence English Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib’ [Translation by: Singh Sahib Sant Singh Khalsa, MD Hand Made Books, 899 N. Wilmot, Suite C-2 Tucson, Arizona 85711, USA :All word databse making, text arrangement and formatting etc by: Kulbir Singh Thind, MD. ] the ‘naam ‘ has appeared for over 2500 times as well. It is abundantly clear that Guru Sahibaan has attached great significance to this aspect of religion. It is one of the important element of the Sikh religion. Even the various saints whose ‘Bani’ has been registered in SGGS has also used the ‘naam’ in their ‘bani’ quite frequently. The author does not claim to be any expert or analyst of Gurbani.. There is everypossibility that there may be some mistakes in this.I am spending quite a time on this and for me reading the sentences again and again is reading Gurbani.
Kindly enjoy this.

*NAAM* *and definition SGGS*

On the first reading it appears that there is no one sentence definition of the word ‘naam’ and rightly so. The plain reason is that the word is embedded in the line of a couplet or ashtpadis / lines that are spread over the entire SGGS ji. Author could not find the definition in this fashion. Some intellectuals may find though. I have done an exercise and would first like to confirm from others if there is any standard definition available to us even for academic purpose. Some commentators may provide a clue as to what should the ‘naam’ be in the context of Simran. 

*Analysis and Methodology employed. *

Some commentators have offered some comments as per their interpretations. If one look at the translations that are available in soft copies one can make a list of the places where the word ‘ naam’ has been employed. It is the first exercise that I am doing for the purpose of analyzing the exact reference and the context in which this term has been employed. I don’t have the luxury of time at my disposal nor am I supposed to be carrying out research on ‘naam’. Let it be the job of some seeker or a student of Sikhism. However, it is intended that we shall all find out collectively the exact meaning even by making a reference to other commentators. I do not call anyone an expert for none can be so. Once has to arrive at the conclusion for oneself within the limitation the little presentation that is provided here as per my intellect and appreciation that He has bestowed on me. One can put up the doubt and the same would be taken up immediately, if found necessary, and /or will be dealt with at the end. I do not have any special expertise and hence I may not be able to answer at all some questions that may be abstract to me. The subject matter is not as simple as it looks on the first sight. In absence of any reference material and standard definition we shall be guided by the contextual usage of the term as employed at various places. There is no standard definition in the scriptures. I could not find the same hence I would be guided by the English translation of the line in the context of which the term ‘naam’ has been employed. Most importantly I even do not know as to what is the object of ‘simran’ should be.if you know the naam’ that the ‘bani’ refers to kindly let me know, I should stop there and then as the purpose of an humble servant would be served. The following article will be of interest to all those who are interested in the above subject. There is no other reason of its inclusion here.

*The Power of the Shabad, Gurbani Kirtan & Naam Simran[1]*
[ Bonus ]
In Siri Guru Granth Sahib, each Shabad has its own domain, power, ridhi (worldly riches), sidhi (spiritual power), and naunidhi (nine treasures). All occult powers are in the Shabad. The recitation of Shabad gives you the power to redeem the environments. Shabad is a part of the power of God, and when the Shabad merges in you, you become God.

The Lotus Feet of God is the Shabad of God. The sound itself will uplift you and take away the disease and sorrow from within you. Meditate on the Lotus Feet of God in your heart. The sound of the spirit is the Shabad. Decorate yourself with it. Shabad is the fountain of spirit. It will always keep you flowing and growing.

The neutral mind records the Shabad, the Truth. When your mind is freaking out, the Shabad automatically comes. The Shabad has the power to control you and your mind, otherwise there is no way you or your mind can be controlled. Shabad brings inner balance. The power of inner balance is the Shabad, and the power of the Shabad is inner balance.

When controlled, our minds can create great things, because the power of the mind is also very infinite. When disciplined, it can change the vibrations and the magnetic psyche of the earth. That is why we come before Siri Guru Granth Sahib and do kirtan. Kirtan is to change the magnetic psyche of the universe with the vibrations of the Word of the Guru, the Naad, so that we can enrich the self in ecstasy.

Gurbani Kirtan, when done correctly, adds more harmony to Gurbani, but when not done right can reverse the effect. Kirtan must be according to time, pure, straightforward, and the raag (musical mode) should be exact. It is a pure discipline. Everyone should participate and recite it in that discipline.

Naam Simran (continuous remembrance of God’s Name) is the preparation for Gurbani. You plow the ground, make the earth ready, and then you do Simran. Simran is Gurmantra (mantra given by the Guru). Khalsa is to recite "Wahe Guru", and a Sikh is to recite "Sat Naam". Sat Naam can elevate the consciousness of any person to Infinity, and Wahe Guru can bring the experience of that Infinity. Wa means Infinite, He means Thou, and Guru means Self. When chanted, it brings you very near to God. Sat Naam is a Panch Shabad (mantra containing five sounds). Saa means Infinity, Taa means birth, Naa means death and Maa means resurrection. Sat Naam is the Shabad in which you have superiority over God. God is a slave in the hands of the devotees. Sat Naam purifies the entire time and space, when you speak it once, it does not matter when. It is a superior self-power of God. God is re-membered by His actions. Naam Simran is a must to prepare for Gurbani to have its effect. It is the complete science of the Word and sound. It changes a human’s biological and psychological metabolism of his body, mind and soul.[* To be continued*]

[1] _(As explained by Siri Singh Sahib Bhai Sahib Harbhajan Singh Khalsa Yogiji)_
http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/sikhism.nsf/d9c75ce4db27be328725639a0063aecc/16dfec31f2d678ec872565b7007b3388!OpenDocument


----------



## Cool (May 7, 2007)

The following are the doubts that were posted by hps ji in some of your other post.I am also posting it here so that you may have the oppurtunity of a better answer.Ofcourse, I shall not be able to answer this question in scientific manner as it cannot be possible for me.

'Why such an importance has been given to Naam.The above sounds an equally potent message and clear as well without the usage of Naam.I am supposed to remember HIM and not HIS name as I do not know by what name should I remember HIM. It can be 'Allah' as well.There is nothing wrong in this.As I am stuick up here I cannot proceed further. May be for you this is a simple question but for me it is an important question.Kindly explain as to what is the significance of 'Naam' in the context of remembering HIM or meditating.When one meditates one draws the picture of the object and not His name/Naam.Well the practice may differ.However, in majority of the cases this should be correct.


Is it simply because as we cannot see HIM that we have to identify HIM by some name.But even then giving name to 'nirankar' would be meaningless.As anything 'formless' cannot be encaged by its name, hence the doubt.How do I know HIS name.I do not know it.Yes, I want to follow the SGGS in word and spirit. Can you guide me, friend, as to by which name should I remember HIM. I shall just call HIMonce and HE should listen to me.May be my way of calling HIM is defective. But the HE knows that I am requesting HIM to have pity on me and let me have HIS darshan and let me get lost in HIM if that is the ultimate objective of this life.'[ The doubts submitted for clarification by hps ji..]


----------



## hps (May 8, 2007)

Dear Friends,

I am searching for the actual Naam that I should recite and meditate as and when when I meditate. Yes the blanket answer is provided as 'waheguru' or 'wahguru' and /or 'satnam'. Will it be wrong if someone decides to meditate oin 'Naam'. Is 'waheguru' mandatory? As per my little understanding one should remember HIM by the name that is ever-flowing in the universe since time immorial. This name should match with the name that I have to meditate. 

God can be remembered by all the names or any name that suits one's temperament or one is convenient with.
However, I shall be grateful if anyone can give an answer as to the name that I should meditate upon?


----------



## Cool (May 9, 2007)

*Why Should We Understand Naam or Shabad*

*Creation And Causes*

*The holy book is the insignia of the word [bani] of the ten Gurus/Nanaks who were the incarnations of the word [Shabad]. The Bani can , therefore, be treated as from single obvious and logical source, the creator.The created universe is the manifestation of His Name. The Creator who created this creation-only He Himself knows the cause for this. The limits of the created universe cannot be perceived. *

*By the Hukam of His Command, all are created and by His Command all the actions are performed. He created the Universe from His Own Being.[1] *

*He is the creator of the incarnations and the coming and going of the human beings. He is the sustainer and the enjoyer, he is the one who created Maya and put in ‘egotism’ in the Human beings. He is the one who grace the Gurmukhs and is the one who enjoys the creation. He created Himself out of Himself. He is the cause of all causes. He has spread the ‘Maya’ in which creation and has caused the attachment amongst the creation. No one knows the reason of this creation. He maintains His creation and enjoys this drama. He is above all. He is the one whose Grace [Nadar] can make us realize Him. He is beyond description. Human mind and intelligence fails to understand Him. This creation runs as per His order and His command. No one is outside the scope of His command. No one can ever be. He is the creator and He will destroy it as and when He likes. He cannot be put in words. He is self- existent and is pervasive. He is Sat and the rst is an illusion as everything else is changing. Whatever praise I may write would be insufficient and hence I give up right away. Any praise that you and me can think of will be inadequate to express His qualities. You may also give up and be thankful for everything that you have and everything that you don’t. He knows what is the best for us and will always bless us with.*

*Shabad and Creations*

*Entire expanse was created by one ‘Shabad’. ਕੀਤਾ ਪਸਾਉ ਏਕੋ ਕਵਾਉ *

*“One can know HIM through the Guru’s word[2]. Guru Nanak ji has repeatedly laid the significance of Naam/Name.” *

*One who realizes the Shabad of the One who created the creation - Nanak is his slave[3]”.  Injecting the poison of egotism this world was created and with the Shabad enshrined within the poison is eliminated[4]. *

*·         ਉਤਭੁਜੁ ਚਲਤੁ ਕੀਆ ਸਿਰਿ ਕਰਤੈ ਬਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਦੇਖਾਇਦਾ ॥੭॥
[The Supreme Creator created the play of Nature; through the Word of His Shabad, He stages His Wondrous Show.[5] ]*

*It is not possible for us to comprehend HIS creation. He Himself is capable of understanding this. We can just contemplate on HIS words and get across this terrifying ocean Of the World. *

·         ਜਿਨਿ ਕਿਛੁ ਕੀਆ ਸੋਈ ਜਾਣੈ ਸਬਦੁ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ਭਉ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਤਰੈ  ॥
The One who created this, He alone understands. Contemplating the Word of the Shabad, one is carried across the terrifying world-ocean[6]. 
·         ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਜਿਨਿ ਸਿਰਿਆ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥
O Nanak, do not forget the Naam, the Name of the Lord, which has created everyone[7]. 
*The word ‘Word/Shabad’ has appeared for the first time in the following.There is no exp[licit mention of the Name of Lord/Naam in the following,the interpretor has while interpreting has taken the meaning to be slightly different from the one that would be inferred by a person of ordinary intelligence, as per my understanding[8].*

·         ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵੇਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਈ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਈਸਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਰਖੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬਤੀ ਮਾਈ ॥[page 2]
*As per Teeka of Sahib singh ji this would mean:*

*ArQ:- (pr aus r`b dw) nwm qy igAwn gurU dI rwhIN (pRwpq huMdw hY)[ gurU dI rwhIN hI (ieh prqIq AwauNdI hY ik) auh hrI sB QweIN ivAwpk hY[ gurU hI (swfy leI) iSv hY, gurU hI (swfy leI) gorK qy bRhmw hY Aqy gurU hI (swfy leI) mweI pwrbqI hY[*

*The word/Name of God appears on the again on the second page [ bani of Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj].It has appeared in the followings as well.*

·         ਸੁਣਿਐ ਸਿਧ ਪੀਰ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਾਥ ॥ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਧਰਤਿ ਧਵਲ ਆਕਾਸ ॥ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਦੀਪ ਲੋਅ ਪਾਤਾਲ ॥ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਪੋਹਿ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਕਾਲੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਗਤਾ ਸਦਾ ਵਿਗਾਸੁ ॥ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਦੂਖ ਪਾਪ ਕਾ ਨਾਸੁ ॥੮॥

ArQ:- hy nwnk! (Akwl purK dy nwm ivc suriq joVn vwly) Bgq jnW dy ihrdy ivc sdw iKVwau bixAw rihMdw hY, (ikaNik) aus dI is&iq-swlwh suxn kr ky (mnu`K dy) du`KW qy pwpW dw nws ho jWdw hY[ ieh nwm ihrdy ivc itkx dI hI brkiq hY ik (swdwrn mnu`K) is`DW, pIrW, dyviqAW qy nwQW dI pdvI pw lYNdy hn qy auhnW ƒ ieh soJI ho jwNdI hY ik DrqI AwkwS dw Awsrw auh pRØBU hY, jo swry dIpW, lokW, pwqwlW ivc ivAwpk hY[8[

*Some Comments and observations * 


The above clearly means that by keeping oneself drenched in the Name of Lord one can be elevated spritually to a higher levels of spritualism. Such magnificient is the Name of Lord,we find the Name of lord / Naam being employed by Guru Nanak dev ji at the beginning of Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj mere sache patsha jeo. This shows that ‘Naam’ for sikhs is of central importance.Generally by ‘Naam’ we would mean as to referring to the name of Almighy by whichever name called. Upto this point there is nothing to suggest that He should be addressed by any specific name. The Naam also removes the fear of death from the mind of the one who listens to His name. (2-17, japu, m- 1)]The above translation of Sahib singh ji asumes many things that is not explicitly contained in the above pauri.However, without indulgence it would form the basis as the above commentary is fairly read. The author stresses upon the same fact that the usage of ‘Naam’ whether in explict or implicit way far exceeds the normal expectation in the Bani. The experts, in their translations have assumed something else to be present in the bani . In any case this reinforces the fact that the ‘ naam’/name of the lord’ is of central importance as the beginning Of Sriguru Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj mere sache patsha jeo. 


*If a person reaches the stage that one starts loving the’naam’ then one gets enlightenment and the mind which is lost in the jungle of ‘Maya’ disassociates itself from it and one understands that He is al pervasive. Such a person also is entitled for salvation. This is ,however, known to the one who establishes the Lord’s name in one’s mind. His name is far above the spell of ‘Maya’ or ‘Maya-jaal’. Such a person is spritually arousd to higher levels. One who is imbued in the love of ‘naam’ also uderstands that it is difficult to describe His vastness as this cannot be done. One also lead a very peaceful and happy life while drenched in His love.It is told to us that we should remember Him like a coin is repeatedly minted.*

‘Naam’/Shabad is considered to be the cause of entire creation and hence He could be remembered through it. 

*Other References only for Illustration purposes*

·         ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਪਾਈ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਖਾਈ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਮਿ ਉਪਾਈਆ ॥੧॥
By great good fortune, the body is obtained; the Naam, the Name of the Lord, is its companion; O servant Nanak, the Lord has created it[9]. [Page 575, Line 8Guru Ram Das] ] 

It is clear that ‘Naam/shabad’ etc, when employed in Gurbani would have direct or indirect allusion to the almighty. It is the only possible way of expressing our gratitude to HIM. I have not seen HIM and hence how should one address Him. It is through Shabad/Naam that it can be done. What ‘naam‘ should be practiced is a different question altogether.Sikhs believe in some names like ‘waheguru’ and ‘satnam’ etc[10].These are the two words that the author feels are employed for simran as well. However, there seems to be no hard rule as per the scriptures. It would be the previledge of many if someone can throw light on the ‘name’ that one may practise for the purpose of meditating on HIM.Guru Sahiban has issued a writ  that we should recognize the Shabad, and do not think that the Lord is far away[11].


P.S.
I do not consider it as any original work.I am just studying and I am just sharing this with you all. Iam reponsible for all the mistakes.I also do understand that some readers may not subscribe to the views as expreessed here. It cannot be the intention of the author to hurt anyone. In case ,due to ignorance, it has happened I may kkindly be forgiven.Your choice would be my pleasure.In any case we are discussing something about The Nameless and the Formless. 
*Bonus as usual*

_Enjoy the following till we meet…………………………….I have recd. it from a friend and do not know the source._
*Food for thought: *
*The Ripple Effect*

The Spiritual Master was walking through the fields one day when a young man, a troubled look upon his face, approached him. 
"On such a beautiful day, it must be difficult to stay so serious," the Master said. 
"Is it? I hadn't noticed," the young man said, turning to look around and notice his surroundings. His eyes scanned the landscape, but nothing seemed to register; his mind elsewhere. Watching intently, the Master continued to walk. 
"Join me if you like." The Master walked to the edge of a still pond, framed by sycamore trees, their leaves golden orange and about to fall. 
"Please sit down," the Master invited, patting the ground next to him. Looking carefully before sitting, the young man brushed the ground to clear a space for himself. 
"Now, find a small stone, please," the Master instructed. 
"What?" 
"A stone. Please find a small stone and throw it in the pond." 
Searching around him, the young man grabbed a pebble and threw it as far as he could. 
"Tell me what you see," the Master instructed. 
Straining his eyes to not miss a single detail, the man looked at the water's surface. 
"I see ripples." 
"Where did the ripples come from?" 
"From the pebble I threw in the pond, Master." 
"Please reach your hand into the water and stop the ripples," the Master asked. 
Not understanding, the young man stuck his hand in the water as a ripple neared, only to cause more ripples. The young man was now completely baffled. Where was this going? Had he made a mistake in seeking out the Master? After all he was not a student, perhaps he could not be helped? Puzzled, the young man waited. 
"Were you able to stop the ripples with your hands?" the Master asked. 
"No, of course not." 
"Could you have stopped the ripples, then?" 
"No, Master. I told you I only caused more ripples." 
"What if you had stopped the pebble from entering the water to begin with?" The Master smiled such a beautiful smile; the young man could not be upset. 
"Next time you are unhappy with your life, catch the stone before it hits the water. Do not spend time trying to undo what you have done. Rather, change what you are going to do before you do it." The Master looked kindly upon the young man. 
"But Master, how will I know what I am going to do before I do it?" 
"Take the responsibility for living your own life. If you're working with a doctor to treat an illness, then ask the doctor to help you understand what caused the illness. Do not just treat the ripples. Keep asking questions." The young man stopped, his mind reeling. 
"But I came to you to ask you for answers. Are you saying that I know the answers?" 
"You may not know the answers right now, but if you ask the right questions, then you shall discover the answers." 
"But what are the right questions, Master?"
"There are no wrong questions, only unasked ones. We must ask, for without asking, we cannot receive answers. But it is your responsibility to ask. No one else can do that for you."
- Author Unknown
*"The choices we make in thought, word and deed inevitably return to us in kind."* 


*Bhul Chuk Maaf ji,*

It is not properly edited. Kindly bear. In this kind of work there are bound to be many errors, you may please forgive me 
*To Be contd…………………………. *

*[1]* *[See: page 668 line 12Guru Ram Das]*

*[2]**[ Page 82, Line 15.**Guru Ram Das]  *

*[3]* *[See: Page 940, Line 7**Guru Nanak Dev]*

*[4]** [See: Page 1009, Line 18Guru Nanak Dev ]* 


*[5]** [See:Page 1037, Line 18,Guru Nanak Dev ] *

*[6]** [Page 1342, Line 3Guru Nanak Dev]  *

*[7]** [ Page 1420, Line 14 Amar Das]*

*[8]** I have stated this as per my own limited intellect.*

[9]* Page 575 Line 8*

*[10]** The author could not dig any scriptural reference indicating to these names except that Satnam appears in Mool Mantra that is touched in this write up for the sake of completeness.*

*[11]** [See Page 581]*


----------



## Cool (May 12, 2007)

*Naam and Shabad*

*Why Naam is  Core  Issue for Sikhs*
The following quotes are taken from Dhan Sri Guru Granth ji maharajMere sache patsha jeo, to state as to how this world/brahamand was created with shabad/word.There would be many others that would suggest the same as is explained below.


You created the vast expanse of the Universe with One Word![p3-16]
*Creating and destroying, He remains unattached.[p1033-14]*
*From Ongkaar, the One Universal Creator God, Brahma was created.[page929-18]*
*The One Shabad, the Word of the One God, is prevailing everywhere. All the creation came from the One Lord.[p1334-18]*
*Through the Guru's Word, you shall come to know the Lord God. From the Lord God, everything was created. ||1||Pause||[82-15]*
 

Let us focus on some of the attributes of the ONE whom we are trying to describe. It is a foolish attempt but it is only for the purpose that we are trying to discuss. Some of the beautiful lines that have been authored in Dhan Sri Guru Granth sahib Maharaj ji  mere sache patsha jeo are as follows:


He Himself created Himself, and He Himself evaluates Himself.[Page 786, Line 9Guru Amar Das] He Himself is the Creator, and He Himself is the Enjoyer. He created the Creation. Page 846, Line 18,Guru Arjan Dev ] He understands Himself.[ Page 1279, Line 5Guru Nanak Dev] He Himself created the world; He contemplates His Creative Omnipotence.[Page 1280, Line 19,Guru Nanak Dev] Enforcing His Order, He created the world. Page 1261, Line 6,Guru Amar Das] He created Himself, and rejoiced; He evaluates Himself. ||6||Page 1035, Line 16,Guru Nanak Dev] Why should someone praise someone else who is also created? They depart in no time at all. Page 1088, Line 15,Guru Amar Das]


Can we put a tag Of Name on such a magnanimous authority. In terms of Guru Nanak Sahib ji, no words can describe HIS attributes and any attempt to do so will be a failure. Hence I shall not do it. How to name HIM is a problem, it has been answered by Dahn Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj mere sache patsha jeo. A serious seeker has to locate it for himself for his own benefit .This understanding is beyond description. It shall end up as individual’s experience only. It cannot be told. It cannot be shared. One can just humbly tell other. It is only for the purpose of evincing an interest Of Gurbani. It would be the individual’s lick and fate and destiny that will ultimately decide if one is graced with the Naam or not. We can only wish them well in this spritual journey to higher planes of mind and soul. It is HE who can grace us and none other can. Be it logos/word/shabad or called by any other name, whatsoever, it will always be within HIS Hukam and Nadar and nothing else. One who has not received the gift Of name [naam- Daan] has just wasted the life. Living like a worm and in HIS grace is better than to remain without earning the jewel of name. If you are blessed with it and you know that, kindly do not read it *further. Just carry out your practice. The search Of Sat is our goal. Can a human being guide us. No is the frankest possible and the simplest of the most difficult question. We may write any number of pages but ultimately it is for the individual to ‘Know himself’. Ultimately the end conclusion would be have we known ourselves fully? Have we devoted time in understanding this? If answer is, No, we are the most unfortunate human beings. Like billions of those who have departed we will also depart. One can just suggest and tell the danger zone, it is for the reader to mould accordingly and work for getting HI Nadar and Grace so that when time comes we meet Him with Head held low but in humility and not in shame.*

*It can only be Attained by HIS grace and Will and none else. *


As the words like ‘ naam’ and ‘shabad’ or ‘akhar’ have been employed to address the one, the ultimate, it is esential to understand these terms so that when employed for the purpose of interpretation these lead to uniform results. 

When a Sikh wants to see God, he looks both at the created world and into their own heart and soul. The aim is to see the divine order that God has given to everything, and through it to understand the nature of God. Most human beings can’t see the true reality of God because they of self-centred pride (Sikhs call it _haumain_) and concern for physical/wordly things. Sikhs believe that God is inside every person, no matter how wicked they appear, and so everyone is capable of change. Just as fragrance is in the flower, and reflection is in the mirror, in just the same way, God is within you. 

It is one of the most important aspect of the science of ‘Naam’ as the author puts.One cannot focus mind or attention on God, who is Absolute but is invisible in Essence on account Of Nirakaar Swaroop. The Naam /Shabad, the Name of God is supposedly the only medium available to us for approaching Him. Gurui Amar Das ji has stated gift of Naam to be the supreme gift of Naam that is formless. It is means of probably communicating with HIM though not in physical form but in _Bhao.__ It is also possible through Guru and is again subject to HIS grace [Nadar]. Thus HIS will and wishes are that the sikhs seek for by becoming a Gurmukh [opposite of manmukh].These two words have an implied meaning in Gurbani._

ਨਾਵੈ ਜੇਵਡ ਹੋਰ ਦਾਤਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰਿਖਿਆ [Page 787, Line 13 supra]
There is no other *gift* as great as the Name; it has no form or sign.[Guru Amar Das ] 

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੋ ਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਿ ਕਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸੋਇ [Page 62, Line 18]
The Lord's Name is the pure wealth; through the Guru, God bestows this *gift*. ||1||Pause||


All who get Naam from the Guru have to concentrate at one point in their mind and recite the Naam in their mind without actually uttering it. Namdev ji has stated the third eye and the unstuck sound current in the following:
ਅਖੰਡ ਮੰਡਲ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਮਹਿ ਅਨਹਦ ਬੇਨੁ ਬਜਾਵਉਗੋ ॥੧॥
In the imperishable realm of the Formless Lord, I play the flute of the *unstruck sound current.* 
ਸਬਦਿ ਅਤੀਤ ਅਨਾਹਦਿ ਰਾਤਾ ਆਕੁਲ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਉਗੋ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Imbued with the unattached, *unstruck Word of the Shabad*, I shall go to the home of the Lord, who has no ancestors.
ਗੰਗਾ ਜਉ ਗੋਦਾਵਰਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਕੁੰਭਿ ਜਉ ਕੇਦਾਰ ਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਈਐ ਗੋਮਤੀ ਸਹਸ ਗਊ ਦਾਨੁ ਕੀਜੈ ॥
Someone may go to the Ganges or the Godaavari, or to the Kumbha festival, or bathe at Kaydaar Naat'h, or make donations of thousands of cows at Gomti;
ਕੋਟਿ ਜਉ ਤੀਰਥ ਕਰੈ ਤਨੁ ਜਉ ਹਿਵਾਲੇ ਗਾਰੈ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਰਿ ਤਊ ਨ ਪੂਜੈ ॥੨॥
he may make millions of pilgrimages to sacred shrines, or freeze his body in the Himalayas; still, none of these is equal to the worship of the *Lord's Name*. ||2||

It is through the Naam that we are able to think of Him, to remember Him. In other words, the Naam is God Himself, adopted to our limited powers of perception and thought, adopted to the capacities of our body and mind. Because we are endowed with the capacity to utter and attentively listen, the continuous recitation of and attentive listening to the Naam focuses our mind on the object of invocation, resulting in a ceaseless remembrance of God. It is possible only if we have a pure and a crystal clear heart and full devotion with total surrender of the self with all ego burnt to ashes. But such Gurmukhs are, as per Gurbani, very rare.


ਜਨਮੁ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਸਫਲੁ ਹੈ ਜੇ ਸਚਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਥਿ ॥


The precious gift of this human life becomes fruitful when one chants the True Word of the Shabad. [Page 44]The revelation of the Essence of Reality within us is the revelation of ‘*Naam*’. When the revelation of Naam occurs within, the devotee sees His the Essence of God pervading throughout His Creation. Guru Sahibaan have taught that their teachings are for all the religion (varnas) and all have the right to get the teachings of the Gurus.
*As the sikhs are to remember Himand meditate on Him it is quite appropriate thatwe hould understand Naam and Shabad and the similar words in the context. Therewould hardly be a page in Dhan Sri Guru ranth Sahib Maharaj mere sache patsha jeo where we dot get Shabad or naam. The entireBani revolves round this core-word. Guru Sahib has given many ilklustrations stating the importance of meditationg on Naam and Shabad, it is forthios reason as well that these are required to be conceptualised.*

*Origin of Naam and Shabad*
*A*s per the Gurbani ‘Naam’ has found its origin from the ‘Shabad’. Infact, the entire universe is manifestation Of the Name. ‘Naam’ is God and through ‘Naam’ everything got created or was created. This takes us to lead that ‘Naam’ it self should be something having the attributes of the Creator. It has further been warned by Guru Sahibaan that one should never forget ‘Naam’. 


· From the Word, comes the Naam; from the Word, comes Your Praise.[p4-7,Japu ji]


The created universe is the manifestation of Your Name.[p4-9 Japu ji]
Where there was no creation, there was nothing in existence – no air, light, water, earth or space and all that state that human mind can explore further. God existed alone in deep meditation and self absorption. When God willed for the manifestations of his values, He created universes, worlds and all material and other living beings by uttering a single _Word_. His _Word_ is all pervasive and the sole source of all Creation; the _Word_ created the universes and supports and sustains all things within them.The ‘Word’ is all pervaiding. It is a gift to a seeker if He pleases/Wills so.

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਦਾਤਿ ਸਬਦ ਸੁਖੁ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਸਦਾ ਨਿਬਹੈ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥Page 1259, Line 10]
The *Shabad is the Guru's Gift*. It shall bring you lasting peace deep within; it shall always stand by you. [*Guru Amar Das]*

*Naam : All pervasive*
There is no creation/creature in which Naam is not present. The Earth and other heavenly bodies exist because there is Naam in this universe and when God withdraws this Naam from this Universe, there is natural calamities [{Parleh}] all over the universe and this is the time that the universe perishes and all the living creatures perish.
*Naam : Leads To Lord*
*If Naam is all pervasive it has the attribute of the almighty and hence naam is treated by us as equivalent to the Almighty as He himself can create Himself and can be all pervasive.This being so Naam reflects the name of the lord or the Lord Himself. *
*Naam is incomprehensible *
Naam incorruptible is beyond our comprehendsion. At the same time, it is our constant companion and pervades all creation. The true Guru discloses it unto us and lets us perceive it in our hearts. It is through God’s grace that we meet with such a Guru[Guru Ram das ji says in Sarang ki Var (SGGS, 1242)]
Please bless Nanak with the Gift of the Naam, the Name of the Inaccessible and Unfathomable God. ||4||20||27||[Page 102, Line 14 Guru Arjan Dev ] 
*Naam Leads to Liberation*
1.
God’s Name is the key to emancipation (mukti) and the means of attaining it (jugati); God’s Name is the fulfilment (tripati) and enjoyment (bhugati). He who repeats God’s Name suffers no setback. God’s Name is the devotee’s distinction. Repeating God’s Name the devotee wins honour [Guru Arjan Dev ji in SGGS page 264-5]
2.
O Nanak, bestowing His kindness, the Lord gives the *gift* of His *emancipating Name*. ||1||[Page 443, Line 3,*Guru Ram Das* ]
*Naam obtained by serving The Gur**u*
1.
Serving the Guru, one is committed to the Naam, the Name of the Lord.[ 236-2, gauVI, mÚ 5]
2.
The Perfect Guru has given me the Gift of the Naam; this alone is my Support. ||1||Pause||[Page 401, Line 13 Guru Arjan Dev]
3.
The Guru unites in union with the Lord, and grants the gift of the Name [Page 1170, Line 11Guru Nanak Dev] 

*Naam is obtained as a Grace and a Gift of God ad ‘Daan’*
It has been advised by Guru Sahibaan that Naam is a Gift [_Daan_].It is amply clear from the followings. Besides these there are many other lines in which same thing has bee repeated.As the point here is to stress that it is to be received as a Daan one has to earn it through the various means and methods as are Taught in Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj mere sache patsha jeo. I have found the gift of the treasure of the Naam, O Nanak; I hug it close, and enshrine it in my heart. ||2||19||Guru Arjan Dev ] 
1.
Servant Nanak begs for this gift: let me meditate on the Lord, forever and ever. ||4||38||45||[Page 107, Line 16 Guru Arjan Dev ]


2.
Nanak: grant me the Gift of Your Name, Lord, that I may string it and keep it within my heart. ||55||[Page 262, Line 1 Guru Arjan Dev]


3.
Bless us with Your Gifts, O my Great Giver. All beings and creatures are satisfied. ||2||[Page 104, Line 12 Guru Arjan Dev ]


4.
O my father, please give me the Name of the Lord God as my wedding gift and dowry. ||4||[Page 79, Line 3 Guru Ram Das]
5.
Nanak begs for the gift of the Naam; O Merciful Lord God, please grant Your Grace. ||1||[Page 710, Line 9,Guru Arjan Dev]

*Company Of Saints and sangat helps achieving Naam.*
1.
Forever and ever, keep me in the Company of the Saints; please bless me with this Gift of Your Name. ||14||[Page 1078, Line 15,Guru Arjan Dev ]


*Shabad and Naam : Same Treatment in Gurbani*

*I*n Gurbani ‘Naam’ and ‘Shabad’ are used interchangebly at some places. However, the contextual meaning is the best for the purpose of interpretation of Naam/Sabad /Akhar and that stated above should not be used as a generalisation while interpreting any part of Gurbani. The entire universe and creation is the only manifestation that human beings can perceive and it is not possible to see the ‘Nirakaar’ swaroop with the ordinary eyes that Human body has. The perception is also as per HIS wish/will/Hukum/Grace and_ Mehr_ . Nirakaar swaroop cannot be seen by these eyes.As per my understanding He can only be felt. No experience can descibe such a majestic event.We cannot even visualise the glory of that moment. One may feel it but one can’t describe it. Logically speaking this should again be out of the power of thoughts and expressions of we the feeble Human beings. One cannot reason out the reason of something that is beyond the reasoning of reason. We are not to logic out that is beyond the normal logic that we can logic out. It is impossible to express that cannot be expressed. One cannot fathom the unfathomable. Hence we accept many things taken for granted as are stated in the Holy book. May be exact meaning can be appreciated when we rise to higher levels of sprituality. I cannot go beyond this. It is, I feel, not impoortant at all. One may enter into meditation and simran of the name that has been told to us. 
The shabad and Name are same would be clear from the following as well where we have been instructed to dwelve on ‘shabad’ that leads to the sound current as well.[p.261-13]
· Without the Fear of God, how can anyone become fearless? Become Gurmukh, and immerse yourself in the Shabad. ||1||Pause||[page18-16]
NormaI reference is also made by employing the ‘Name’ as the following would suggest:

· I am a mere insect, a worm. O True Guru, I seek Your Sanctuary. Please be merciful, and bless me with the *Light of the Naam*, the Name of the Lord. [10-2, gUjrI, mÚ 4)]


*Naam helpful in controlling TheFive thieves*

The following ashpadi of Sukhmani Sahib refers to Shabad [instead of Naam].Shabad/sabad appears at various places in the Holy book .Almost a parallel list can be drawn by extracting Shabad from other places of the Holy Book. It is left as an exercise for the reader. The search has helped me a lot . May be it helps you as well. I cannot put it in Black and white as I fail to coin the words to express the concepts that I have formulated. I am sharing with you all that I can do with the limited knowledge of the language that I know. It is not ‘newtonian Laws’ that I can explain with some examples nor is it ‘pythagoros theorem’ that I can deduce something. One can find many attributes of meditating on Naam. The followin is only cited to put across the point.


gur kw sbdu ird AMqir DwrY ] (236-14/15,gaudi]

Those who implant the Word of the Guru's Shabad within their hearts cut their connections with the *five passions*. They keep the ten organs under their control and their souls are enlightened]

Jewel Of naam attaiable through His Grace.One can attain Naam if He so desires.Those who are blessed with His Mercy obtain the Jewel of the Naam or the Name of the Lord.


----------



## Cool (May 12, 2007)

* 

Appreciation Of Naam and Shabad 

The Essence/Lord can’t be seen or visualised by the mind. We can see only the physical dimension of Reality in God’s Creation – mountains, plants, trees, creatures etc. Thus the Outer look of Reality holds us (the appearances delude us) and we cannot penetrate deeper to experience the all pervading Reality. The physical dimensions of Reality  is always in flux; it keeps changing. While birth, death, creation, destruction etc. occur in the physical dimensions of creation, the Essence, being Sat (Sat-Naam) never changes, it transcends space and time[1].

You alone are Eternal and Unchanging, Inaccessible and Infinite. Through the Guru's Teachings, understanding is imparted.[ 120-9]


Unstruck sound Current Of Shabad


As per Gurbani the Name has no form or outline and it vibrates with the Unstruck Sound Current through the ‘Word of the Shabad’ and  the Immaculate Lord is revealed. 
From the Word, came the sound current of the Naad, speeches and explanations [p261-13]

Further reference also points to the followings:

The Unstruck Sound-current of the Shabad is the vibration of the temple drums.(13-3, DnwsrI, mÚ 1).
Contemplate the One Word of the Shabad, and abandon other hopes. (18-17, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)

Why Shabad and Name should be so pious and worthy Of respect
God is 'not subject to time or death' and he is formles, without shape or image. God is a Being beyond time: An Eternal, Indestructible Entity. He does not change. He is beyond time.Time means change. We are aware of time because we are surrounded by change: the sun rises and it is morning, then it is afternoon and then evening; first there is the infant, then the youth, then the old man; a healthy man becomes ill, an ill person healthy; a rich man becomes a pauper, a pauper becomes a king. For God there is no time because He is eternal, perpetual, immortal. He is forever. For Him nothing is changing; everthing is static. Change is the experience of sightless eyes that do not see things in their full perspective. If we could see things from the furthest vantage point all change drops away, and then time stops; it ceases to exist. For God all things are as they are; nothing changes. How to address HIM and remember Him.it is through HIS name. Naam Literally means the name.His name is Holy and is divine in nature[2].
As the lord’s Name is as pious as the Lord Himself the ‘Shabad’ that is the cause of the ‘Name’ is also as pious as the ‘Shabad’. The name of the Lord can be expressed with the help Of words and hence Shabad/Akhar, hence Shabad/word/akhar should be as pious and immaculate that these are to be treated with great respect. Anything employed to address HIM should be worthy of same respect as the one who is addressed with the help of that which is employed to express the Creator, the Almighty.
[It is as per the above conclusion that I have derived myself and the things fall in line for me I am sharing it with you. It may not be necessary for you to subscribe to the views. However, it should answers some of the questions that bothers, sometimes, the seeker.]
By His Grace we listen to the sound current of the Naad. In the Society of the Saints one can see God deep within his being. God's Name is sweet. All things are contained in the Heart of the One although they appear in so many various colors. The nine treasures are in the Ambrosial Name of God. Within the human body is its place of rest of Naam[3]. The Deepest Samaadhi, and the unstruck sound current of the Naad are there. The wonder and marvel is beyond description and cannot be put into words. 
God existed before the creation of the universe. He is formless and nameless. As He is formless the Naam is also formless[4]. The name of God is, therefore, beyond the standard language structure that is created by mankind. The ‘Naam’ meaning the name, is the internal rhythm, the internal sound that a man experiences, the true name of God, and thus the ultimate truth.[5] This jewel is obtained with His blessings and mercy.[6] The seeker/ Sikh has to beg for the same and be in search of this[7]. When one is enjoined to serve the True Guru, He brings out this Jewel and bestows this enlightenment[8]. The Naam is the breath of life.[9] One should worship the Naam which has been compared with the Lord Himself[10]. One who does not forget the Naam, for a moment or even an instant-how rare is such a person in this world.[11] The treatment Of “Naam’ is almost the same as is done in the Bani. As stated above it is a divine and gift and has been called as the greatest of alll the gifts. It is attained in the company of the holy.[12] One who has obtained the Ambrosial Naam, the Name of the Immaculate Lord - his body enjoys the pleasure of spiritual wisdom[13]. 
· There is no other gift as great as the Name; it has no form or sign.[P.787 line 13]Guru Amar Das] 
· The nine treasures are in the Ambrosial Name of God.[age 293-16]
· Within the human body is its place of rest.[293-17,Gauri Sukhmani]
This mind is the king, the hero of cosmic battles. The mind of the Gurmukh becomes fearless through the Naam. Overpowering and subduing the five passions,holding ego in its grip, it confines them to one place. The Gurmukh renounces other songs and tastes. The mind of the Gurmukh is awakened to devotion. Hearing the unstruck music of the sound current, this mind contemplates the Shabad, and accepts it[1].

Various Format Of Naam
Naam not merely The Name of GOD
Naam is not merely the ‘Name of God’ as is commonly believed; it symbolises the Being of God filling all Creation. Naam is also referred to as Shabad in the  Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib mere patsha jeo. One would have to carefully recognise it while going through Various ‘ bani’s.  May be as it is the ‘word’ that originated ‘Naam’, these are treated as same. This may not seem very lucid explanation. But something that is divine should not be stated to be logical or illogical. I shall not deviate from the standard position taken by almost all the commentator. I shall not even further discusss this aspect. May be some scholar may through some light. Some portion of this post are left open as the author cannot write much beyond this.Any addition would be of academic interest and is likely to lead to confusion. 

God is not visible .It has no form yet he is pure and is Sat. He cannot be established at all as He is sai bhung, self –existent. He can be known only with the blessings of Guru only and blessed are those who get the blessing. He cannot be established.

·        He cannot be established, He cannot be created[2].
ArQ:- auh Akwl purK mwieAw dy prBwv qoN pry hY (ikauNik) auh inrol Awp hI Awp hY, nw auh pYdw kIqw jw skdw hY Aqy nw hI swfw bxwieAw bxdw hY[

In the following one can see as to how Guru Nanak  Sahib ji is telling the significance of the word. The Guru's Word is the Sound-current of the Naad; the Guru's Word is the Wisdom of the Vedas; the Guru's Word is all-pervading.

gurmuiK nwdM gurmuiK vydM gurmuiK rihAw smweI[3] 

It is an edict that one should enshrine the word of the guru's teachings within your heart, and overpower the five passions. In such a case your life, and your generations, shall be saved, and you shall be honored at the lord's door. Again it is submitted that Naam is God referred to as Sound current. Some of other places where reference to sound current has been made are as follows:


·         From the Word, came the SOUND CURRENT of the Naad, speeches and explanations.[p261-13 gaudi]


·         By His Grace, you listen to the SOUND CURRENT of the Naad.[p270-12]


To be contd………………………………………………….

Sorry For the mistakes:
There is, as usual, nothing new in this. 



·        [1] See415-16, Awsw, mÚ 1)

[2] (2-6, jpu, mÚ 1)


[3] (2-8, jpu, mÚ 1)


[1] Adopted from some old Article : Source Unknown

[2] Mool Mantar - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

[3] See p293-16,17,Sukhmani

[4] The Name has no form or outline; it vibrates with the unstruck SOUND CURRENT; through the Word of the Shabad, the Immaculate Lord is revealed. [351-2]

[5] What exactly is ‘Naam’, was always  a mystery to me. Even after searching many sites and looking at the write- ups, I could not find this aspect Of ‘ Naam’ and would leave this for individuals understanding. There are very many articles available that are full of appreciation Of Naam. For this article /post I have assumed as per Gurbani that Name of the Lord is the Lord Himself. I have received something great while studying all the available material that I could read with my old eyes and I am in tears while sharing this with you. May you also be blessed with all that you seek……………….all the best….
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Naam

[6] ijs no ik®pw krih iqin nwm rqnu pwieAw ] (11-16, Awsw, mÚ 4)

[7] hm kIry ikrm siqgur srxweI kir dieAw nwmu prgwis ]1] (10-2, gUjrI, mÚ 4)

[8] siqgur syvY ligAw kiF rqnu dyvY prgwis ] (40-7, isrIrwgu, mÚ 4)

[9] gurmiq nwmu myrw pRwn sKweI hir kIriq hmrI rhrwis ]1] rhwau ] (10-3, gUjrI, mÚ 4)

[10] nwau pUjIAY nwau mMnIAY AKMfu sdw scu soie ]3] (17-7, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)

[11] ijn iKnu plu nwmu n vIsrY qy jn ivrly sMswir ]1] rhwau ] (21-16, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)

[12] AMimRq nwmu swDsMig lYn ] (295-13, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
· I have received the Ambrosial Naam in the Company of the Holy.

[13] AMimRqu nwmu inrMjn pwieAw igAwn kwieAw rs BogM ]1] rhwau ] (360-1, Awsw, mÚ 1)


*


----------



## GuruPyaara (May 12, 2007)

Cool Ji,

if i am understanding you right(I may be wrong, please CLARIFY IF THIS IS THE CASE) all you telling us 
there is no difference in Naam, Akhar, Shabad and all this is God's name(naam) which is realized by Guru.

As a Sikh OUR GURU IS 'GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI', LIVING JOT. (i hope we agree on this!!!!) 

CAN YOU GUIDE US HOW TO DO GURU JI'S SEVA, SO THAT WE CAN REACH TO THAT LEVEL THAT GURU JI SHOWERS HIS GRACE ON US MOORS, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, you seem like(from your writting), a realized Soul, so guide your brothers and sisters how to do Guru Jis Seva in real sense.

will be greatfull


----------



## spnadmin (May 12, 2007)

HPS ji

You began this very interesting thread with the question,

“is it ok. if one starts chanting 'Rama' instead of 'waheguru' in the light of the translation.”  

Citing this line, from Kabeer, which is wholly a part of our Guru ji.

 “khu kbIr AKr duie BwiK ] (329-18, gauVI, Bgq kbIr jI)
Says Kabeer, chant the two letters of the Lord's Name - Raa Maa."

I have followed this discussion, and at times have found myself completely lost. The path of the discussion has taken many twists and turns. At the risk of inviting the kindly criticism and sometimes wrath of other members of the forum (I sit in readiness), let me write a few lines regarding your original question.

Too often we think of the poets, saints and gurus as living a life without context.  Or only the context we wish to create for them. They were to the contrary humans living in a particular place and time, and they have a context that is historical in nature, and sometimes knowing history helps us a little. 

Kabir was born in 1440  (or thereabouts). That makes him a contemporary of Guru Naanak dev ji. He was born in northern India, was probably illegitimate, adopted into a Hindu family, and then given away to a family of Muslim weavers. Legend has it that he was illiterate, and that the only word that he could write was RAMA (RWRW). Probably a genius, his poetry was part of an oral tradition, until it was written down, and hence included in Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib. (I have several references to work on Kabeer which I will share, but the url below is pretty good.)

As Naanak dev ji’s contemporary in time and place, Kabeer had to have been affected by the same scenes of misery, corruption, savagery and supersition that so moved Naanak to undertake his spiritual quest. Kabeer drew from both Hindu and Muslim traditions in his spiritual journey as did Nanaak– which shouldn’t surprise us since both were surrounded by Hindus and Muslims. His dedication to one god and the equality of all humankind in the eyes of God is a Muslim concept. His poetry is however grounded in this proposition:

“...all life is an interplay of two spiritual principles.  One is the personal soul (Jivatma) and the other is God (Paramatma).  It is Kabir's view that salvation is the process of bringing into union these two divine principles”
(http://www.chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/kabir.html). 

This union is difficult for me to bring into my own heart and mind and soul with complete understanding, and it is difficult to enact in my daily life. But we do not have to be brain-surgeons to understand what Kabeer is getting at either.

We should not forget that northern India in the 1400’s CE ,and before and after, was a rich center of invigorating intellectual and religious discourse. Ideas were discussed. Took root. Became part of the artistic heritage of the region. In other words, Kabeer had his ears and eyes open, and he turned what he saw and heard and FELT into poetry of great aesthetic appeal. More importantly Kabeer’s poetry is Kabeer’s view of how to live a life infused with God’s grace, and with a moral end in mind.

This is not to say that the ongoing discussion of Naam, Akal, Sat Nam, Waheguru, Ram, and others names of God, and their connection with Shabd and meditation is not important. It is important. My problem is that the discussion has become so abstract that the fundamental reason why Kabeer is included in Siri Guru Granth Sahib ji is lost. 

My instinct is to engineer backward from Guru Pyaraa’s statement, “As a Sikh OUR GURU IS 'GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI', LIVING JOT”.

How does Guru dev ji teach us to intermingle jivatma and paramatma in its pages?

Or as asked by Guru Pyaraa ji,  CAN YOU GUIDE US HOW TO DO GURU JI'S SEVA, SO THAT WE CAN REACH TO THAT LEVEL THAT GURU JI SHOWERS HIS GRACE ON US MOORS,

Anyone may chant RAMA and encounter the divine presence by doing so, as most of us are free to chant anything we want. However, it is not OK to chant anything we want if we are thinking beyond the intellectual discourse on God’s name and trying to get a grip on our spiritual and moral identities within the framework of Guru dev ji. 

I humbly await correction of my views.


----------



## hps (May 13, 2007)

*Respected aad ji,*

I have gone through your post as above and have compiled the following questions that you have asked or hinted at. 
The following is extracted from original post. 

“is it ok. if one starts chanting 'Rama' instead of 'waheguru' in the light of the translation.” 
_Citing this line, from Kabeer_, which is wholly a part of our Guru ji.

“khu kbIr AKr duie BwiK ] (329-18, gauVI, Bgq kbIr jI)
Says Kabeer, chant the two letters of the Lord's Name - Raa Maa."

Your Basic Questions arising out of your Post would be as follows.


1.
“It is important. My problem is that the discussion has become so abstract that the fundamental reason why Kabeer is included in Siri Guru Granth Sahib ji is lost. “


1a.
However, it is not OK to chant anything we want if we are thinking beyond the intellectual discourse on God’s name and trying to get a grip on our spiritual and moral identities within the framework of Guru dev ji“


2.
How does Guru dev ji teach us to intermingle jivatma and paramatma in its pages?

2a.
“...all life is an interplay of two spiritual principles. One is the personal soul (Jivatma) and the other is God (Paramatma). It is Kabir's view that salvation is the process of bringing into union these two divine principles”

[2 ans 2a would be the same in meaning]
*Answers as per my understanding*


1.
I am grateful for sharing the info about Kabir Sahib ji, that I shall look into when I have the luxury Of time. I have never stated that I want to know the logic of the poetry/verses of Kabir Sahib ji being included in SGGS ji. I accept this as part of our Living Guru. As stated by GuruPyara ji. I do not have the moral right even to peep into this kind of moral questioning to someone in public and in open. And To whom am I questioning , “To the Almighty AS HIS Bani is of divine in nature and was included by the Nanaks who literally composed the SGGS ji. For the mutual benefit I am putting down a page that suggests the basic philosophy and contents of SGGS ji. My basic question is simple ‘will it be ok if I start remembering to the Name of ‘Rama’ instead of ‘wahe guru’/Vahguru. It is solved by the first answer. I am satisfied. I would never dream Of asking the logic of anything that is contained in SGGS. 

*A BRIEF INTRODUCTION, by Kulbir S. Thind, MD*

*What is Sri Guru Granth Sahib?*

It is a religious scripture, a compilation of spiritual/mystical hymns with a common philosophy but written by different spiritual masters, prominent saints (Bhagats) and some others spiritual poets from the Indian subcontinent. The different authors who's writing are included in the scripture lived between the twelfth to the seventeenth century and belonged to different faiths and classes/strata of society. This scripture is also called Adi Granth (Adi means original & Granth means scripture) to differentiate it from another Scripture written by the tenth Sikh Guru.

*What is unique about Sri Guru Granth Sahib?*

This is the latest of the principal religious scriptures from the Indian subcontinent and this is the only known scripture that contains the original writings from the masters of a major faith know as Sikhism. The compilation of the original scripture was completed by the fifth Sikh Guru, Arjan Dev in 1604. Probably the most unique feature of this scripture is that it contains a universal message of spiritual living for the whole human race.

*A brief history of compilation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib*

The founder of Sikhism, Guru Nanak (Guru means a teacher, a spiritual guide) who lived between 1469 to 1539 was a mystic from the early age. He traveled far and wide during his adult life, not only in India but also in various other Asian countries and those of Arabia, over a period of about thirty years. Thus he not only studied and interacted with the Indian culture in its minute form but many other cultures as well. At that time Indian society was mostly ruled by Muslim rulers and it mostly practiced various forms of Hinduism and Islam. However, there were very few spiritualists among the Hindus or Muslims and the society was inflicted with numerous social ills. Guru Nanak had the vision of a true spiritual life that he then preached through the mystical hymns that he wrote and sang. The Sikh Gurus that followed Guru Nanak also preached the same philosophy and many of them wrote mystical hymns of their own. The fifth Sikh Guru, Arjan Dev complied Sri Guru Granth Sahib at Amritsar (North West of India), the spiritual center that he created. Besides the hymns that he wrote himself, he collected the hymns of the first four Sikh Gurus and a number of other saints/spiritualists with similar philosophy and thus compiled the Adi Granth. The volume was written by Bhai Gurdas under the direction of Guru Arjan Dev. Guru Arjan gave the volume to a follower Bhai Bano for binding. The later took it for binding to Lahore and on the way prepared a copy of the original volume. That first copy of the original is known as Bhai Bano's copy. Guru Arjan Dev installed the original Holy Book in 1604 at the Sikh temple (Harmandir Sahib) that he had got constructed at Amritsar. A famous Sikh follower by the name Baba Buddha was appointed as the first Granthi or keeper of the scripture. After the Martyrdom of Guru Arjan Dev in the hands of King Jahangir, Guru Hargobind became the sixth Sikh Guru in 1606. Subsequently Bhai Dhirmal, son of Guru Hargobind got hold of the scripture and refused to give it to the Guru. In 1706, the tenth Sikh Guru, Gobind Singh, when staying at Damdama Sahib (North West India) recompiled Sri Guru Granth Sahib with the help of a close associate Bhai Mani Singh by adding hymns of the ninth Sikh Guru, the father of Guru Gobind Singh, and gave direction to his followers to consider the scripture as the eternal Guru. Thus the scripture is called Sri Guru Granth Sahib (Guru means teacher or guide, Granth means a holy book, whereas Sri & Sahib are respectful adjectives).

*Who's hymns are included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib?*

The scripture contains compositions of 6 Sikh Gurus (the first five Gurus and the ninth Guru), seventeen saints/Bhagats (Kabir, Farid, Namdev, Ravidas, Beni, Trilochan, Jaidev, Sundar, Parmanand, Sadna, Ramanand, Dhanna, Pipa, Sain, Soorday, Bhikhan, Mardana); poets Balwand & Sata and eleven Bhattas or poets of the Sikh Gurus (Mathra, Jalap, Harbans, Talya, Salya, Bhal, Kulh Sahar, Nal, Kirat, Gayand, Sadrang).
Guru Granth Sahib contains 5894 hymns. 974 hymns are written by the first Guru, 62 by the second Guru, 907 by the third, 679 by the fourth, 2218 by the fifth, and 115 by the ninth Guru. 541 hymns are by sait/Bhagat Kabir. The remaining 381 hymns are by others saints/Bhagats and poets listed above.

*Composition (internal structure) of Sri Guru Granth Sahib?*

The scripture in its customary form has 1430 pages. The allocation of pages is like this: 1. Japji 1-8. 2. Musical hymns 8-1351. 3. Salok Sahskriti 1352-1359. 4. Gatha 1359-1361. 5. Funhe l36l-1362. 6. Chaubole 1363-1364. 7. Saloks of Kabir and Farid 1364-1384. 8. Swa-ee-ay (poetry of parise) of the Gurus by the Bhattas 1384-1408. 9. Saloks of the Gurus 1409-1428. 10. Rag Mala, the index of musical measures 1429-1430.
Most of the hymns in Sri Guru granth Sahib are classified according to musical forms called Rags. Under each Rag, the hymns are further arranged in the following order :1. Chaupadas, hymns of four verses. 2. Ashtapadas, hymns of eight verses. 3. Long poems. 4. Chhants, Verses of six lines. 5. Short poems. 6. Vars, consisting of two or more Saloks and a Pauri. 7. Poems of Bhagats in the same order.

The hymns are further classified according to the musical clef (Ghar) in which each is to be sung. Although according to the index of Rags in Ragmala, the total number of Rags and Raginis is 84, but only 31 have been used in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. So the Granth is arranged firstly according to the Rag, secondly, according to the nature or meter of the poem, thirdly by authorship, and fourthly the clef.

*What kind of philosophy do the hymns in Sri Guru Granth Sahib reveal?*

Sri Guru Granth Sahib is a treasure of divine knowledge, mysticism and a guide to a spiritual living for anyone who ventures to find instruction from it and live by it. The hymns help us with unwavering belief in God. A description of God is given in the very opening sentence of Guru Granth Sahib, which is called Mool-Mantar (basic creed). and is a Preamble of the first section called Japji: There is One God, He is the Eternal Truth, the Creator, Without Fear, Hate or Enmity, All-Pervading & Everlasting Divine Spirit, Self-Existent, and He is realized by Guru's Grace.
We are guided to live a family life and make a truthful living and share the earning with the less fortunate.
Lord's praise and meditation upon God's name is emphasized as a way to spirituality. According to the hymns 'spirituality' means love for God and his creation, humility/sweetness, empathy/compassion for others, a feeling of brotherhood with all mankind, contentment, forgiveness, devotion to selfless service of others, sharing resources with those in need, truthful & honest living, to be thankful of Gods gifts (that will count many if we attempt), doing one's best, staying on the right spiritual path and leaving the result to Him and accepting of His will.
Hymns tell us that following human attributes take us away from the path of spirituality: Anger, arrogance, self-righteousness, hate/animosity, bigotry, apathy/unconcern for others, being punitive, greed, attachment with worldly goods or beings, lust and falsehood/corruption.
Hymns give us a direction not to treat women as inferior and to shed barriers that divide human race, such as racism & cast system.
*[source: **http://www.gurbanifiles.org/intro.html**]*

1a.
Regarding this question to the name that one should chant, It is believed that we should chant ‘Naam’, that, as per the above post, is gifted and graced upon us by the Almighty. WE may get this gift when we are spiritually at a plane that is higher than our present level where our mind prevails and keeps the soul almost in dormant stage so far as the spritual attainment is concerned. It is fine for me that I meditate upon any name unless it is contrary to any scripture the reference Of which I do not possess and I need not also now. God can be remembered by any Name. ‘Ek OngKar’ would be having some link with ‘Om’ or ‘Aum.’ 

SGGS ji has some reference to ‘whaeguru’ at some places.LIke wise there wouldbe reference to Mool mantra as well in Dhan SGGS Ji.

isrI gurU swihbu sB aUpir mn bc k®Mm syvIAY scw ]5](1402-11, sveIey mhly cauQy ky, gXMd)
The Supreme Guru is the Lord and Master over all; so serve the True Guru, in thought, word and deed. ||5||
vwihgurU vwihgurU vwihgurU vwih jIau ] (1402-11, sveIey mhly cauQy ky, gXMd)

There may be other references as well. I was forced to look/search into SGGS ji after a post came up showing the name Of waheguru.

2.
Entire Bani of Dhan SGGS ji is based upon the liberation and merger of the Soul with the Almighty that has been called as Parmatama. I am jus giving one ‘tuk’ that I could locate immediately. It is again reproduced for mutual benefit.

ijqu imilAY prm giq pweIAY ] (71-19, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
Meeting Him, the supreme status is obtained.

I am not very knowledgable myself and am looking around to know my faith more closely the way you are doing.
2a
It is almost similar to the above [i.e at Sl.2 ]


Hope I have answered all the queries. My knowledge is very limited and I am almost like a kid learning ‘abc’.
[Kindly correct me if I am wrong. WE should help each other in learning, incidentally I have my question answered . It is a individual experience only, a matter of subjectivity]

Thx and Regards.

hps


----------



## GuruPyaara (May 13, 2007)

aad002 ji, thanks.

hps ji, the thread and your explanation- very confusing. 

i want to repeat my question to Cool Ji- WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST : HOW WE SHOULD DO GURU JI(GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI) SEVA, SO THAT WE CAN BECOME WORTHY OF GOD/GURU'S GRACE?

thanks in advance


----------



## spnadmin (May 13, 2007)

Dear Guru Pyaara ji,

It was actually a moment of happiness when I got up this morning, poured myself a cup of coffee, logged on and saw you had responded. Even greater happiness that you repeated your question. BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SPIRITUAL PATH WITHOUT A MORAL PATH, and that is what I got from your statement. (Once we have established who the God is that we open our souls to, then what happens next, and how do we revere this God? What is our seva in this relationship? My understanding)

Do we chant for the sake of chanting? If that is what we do, it doesn't matter what we chant. Or is there another purpose?

A couple of other thoughts. As a convert-- and others who have found Siki in another way may disagree-- among the most powerful experience on first encounter with Naanak, and all other gurus, sants and mystics found in Guru Dev ji, is meeting them as they were, astonishing individuals whose lived their faith. Incredible, over-powering, rendering me at times unable to speak, able only to focus on their lesson. 

So when a discussion ignores how much these remarkable individuals are speaking to their own felt experience of God, something is lost. There is more than "shabd" as a given. Now up for endless abstract discourse-- much like the notion of "The Holy Ghost" in Christianity. Of course Kabeer chanted rwmw. That was his life, his understanding, his image. Guru dev ji was heard only in the voice of Naanak at that time. But Kabeer and Nanaak were singing the same song.

What was that song?

hps ji

Thanks for your reference on Kabeer. What I liked better was the idea that we are both kids learning our abc's. 

Thank you for your answer as well.


----------



## hps (May 13, 2007)

Some of the places where the term 'Naam' has appeared in SGGS JI are as follows, the meaning of these are given and are self explanatory.


AKrI nwmu AKrI swlwh ] (4-7, jpu, mÚ 1)
From the Word, comes the Naam; from the Word, comes Your Praise.

ijnI nwmu iDAwieAw gey mskiq Gwil ] (8-12, sloku)
Those who have meditated on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and departed after having worked by the sweat of their brows

hm kIry ikrm siqgur srxweI kir dieAw nwmu prgwis ]1] (10-2, gUjrI, mÚ 4)
I am a mere insect, a worm. O True Guru, I seek Your Sanctuary. Please be merciful, and bless me with the Light of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||1||

gurmiq nwmu myrw pRwn sKweI hir kIriq hmrI rhrwis ]1] rhwau ] (10-3, gUjrI, mÚ 4)
Through the Guru's Teachings, the Naam is my breath of life. The Kirtan of the Lord's Praise is my life's occupation. ||1||Pause||


Dnu DMnu sqsMgiq ijqu hir rsu pwieAw imil jn nwnk nwmu prgwis ]4]4] (10-8, gUjrI, mÚ 4)
Blessed, blessed is the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, where the Lord's Essence is obtained. Meeting with His humble servant, O Nanak, the Light of the Naam shines forth. ||4||4||


ijs no ik®pw krih iqin nwm rqnu pwieAw ] (11-16, Awsw, mÚ 4)
Those who are blessed with Your Mercy obtain the Jewel of the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

imlu swDsMgiq Bju kyvl nwm ]1] (12-7, Awsw, mÚ 5)
Join the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy; vibrate and meditate on the Jewel of the Naam. ||1||


hps


----------



## simpy (May 14, 2007)

*Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,*

*the word Sangat means-company*, *fellowship*, *association*

*And the Saadh Sangat for a Sikh is- *

*Sangat where Bani is read, contemplated, and sung in form of Kirtan.*
*In Guru Ji's presence. And Guru Ji is present where ever Bani is............ And Bani is EVERYWHERE.*

*GURU JI IS EVERYTHING FOR US- DIVINE LIGHT, NIRANKAAR, SAADH, SANT, MAHATMA, FRIEND, SIDH, MAATA, PITAA, BHAIN, BHAI, CHANAN, and what not. SIKH DE ANDAR BAHAR EVERYWHERE.*

*SO hps ji solved that part of the riddle. ENDLESS THANKYOU JI*

*SO LET US DO COMPANY, FELLOWSHIP and ASSOCIATION OF SHABAD GURU- DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI- let us read Bani, sing Bani, contemplate Bani, follow Bani- LIVE THE TRUTH............forever*


*humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness*


----------



## luv4u (May 17, 2007)

"Dear friends/respondents

The following line appears in SGGS. 

khu kbIr AKr duie BwiK ] (329-18, gauVI, Bgq kbIr jI)
Says Kabeer, chant the two letters of the Lord's Name - Raa Maa.

The English Translation appears to be slightly different than what appears on the face.Should one take the 'Naam' as 'Rama'.? To me the line , as tanslated, seems to be skewed.Is it a correct translation by some learned author and further is it ok. if one starts chanting 'Rama' instead of 'waheguru' in the light of the translation.

Would be ever grateful for the clarification.Kindly correct me in my inference as well.
Regards
hps "
===========================================
I have quoted the primary question of the querist that seems to be lost in the war of words.I feel that the English translation is the culprit and nothing else.If one carefully reads into the Punjabi lines of the Bani ,there is no reference to the alphabets Ra..Ma as is done in the English Translation.

*It is a defective piece of Translation.*
*Some elder /senior member may like to look into.*


----------



## lovely_silky (May 17, 2007)

If someone take some pain and read the whole page-329 Gauri Kabir ji, instead of moving this question wandering around from post to post and thread to thread. This is the 33rd, read all the ones before it as well.

It is so obvious why the translation says so.

gauVI kbIr jI ]
Awpy pwvku Awpy pvnw ]
jwrY Ksmu q rwKY kvnw ]1]
rwm jpq qnu jir kI n jwie ]
rwm nwm icqu rihAw smwie ]1] rhwau ]
kw ko jrY kwih hoie hwin ]
nt vt KylY swirgpwin ]2]
khu kbIr AKr duie BwiK ]
hoiegw Ksmu q lyiegw rwiK ]3*]*


May be you will say the same for me that I am poking my nose in your matter, but seems to be the two of you have the same question and not bothering to read what is written before this line in Guru Granth Sahib Ji :crazy: .

May be that is the reason nobody replied to it :}: :shifty: 

I saw the question too, didn't respond as your friend hps doesnt seem like reading what others say, he only wants to read what he wants to. 

I know this is not going to be enough for you either as you seem like the most egoistic(the way both of your posts are showing about you)one, i just answered it for the sake of answering it, may be somebody else is also reading :hmm:


----------



## luv4u (May 17, 2007)

Hi Silky ji,
Thanks for nice comments.
But still youir post also does not show that there are two separate semi-words 
Ra ..Ma...in Gurmukhi Bani.
Rest assured I know Gurmukhi.


----------



## spnadmin (May 17, 2007)

Lovely silky ji

You know, you made me think!


----------



## simpy (May 18, 2007)

*Respected aad0002 ji and Lovely_silky ji,*

*When we read Gauri Kabir Ji chaupada 34, it makes even more clear that Kabir ji is preaching about 'RAM' -MEANING 'God's Name'.*

*and in Gurmukhi 'RAM is made of two akhar-Rara and Mamma(r , m ) joined together with kanna to give sound AA. so the word Ram is made of two letters(akhar).*

*Also there is an idiom in Gurmukhi- do akhar. *
*like we say- je do akhar aanday hon to pataa hovey. (can know only if have learned a little)....*

*so me neech understands that which ever is the reason there (for Kabir Ji) to use this as an idiom (a little) or otherwise (Ra + m),Dhan Dhan Kabir Ji is telling us altogether- Rab da naam le bande(recite God's Name) , ohi rakhan wala hai(He is the only saviour).*

*humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness for being nosy.*


----------



## luv4u (May 18, 2007)

Yes Surinder Ji,

Tusi bilkul theak kahiya hey.- Aithey Ram da matbl hega Rab - nan key- Maryada purshotam Ram ji. Wah...Wah..Wah. Tussi pehley kithey segay.


----------



## spnadmin (May 18, 2007)

Surinder ji

You are allowed to comment on anything you want -- I think. 
Anyway, yes, "raam" is one of the names of God. It didn't seem that there was a big division of opinion on this particular point. 

With great affection


----------



## simpy (May 18, 2007)

*Respected aad0002 ji,*

*thanks for the affectionate response. yes, you are right. Dhan Dhan Kabir ji uses Hari, Raam, Khasam, Ramyaa, Purkhotam, Raja Raam, Sarangpaan...... and many more as God's Name  *

*  no chances of any division on this point anyways  *
*                                  Bani written by Kabir Ji is so sweet*



*humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness*


----------



## luv4u (May 21, 2007)

Following is a beautiful link For simran.Kindly listen and enjoy. 

http://www.sikhwomen.com/health/Spirituality/naam/simran4.htm


----------



## spnadmin (May 21, 2007)

luv4u ji

Can get to the page but can't hear anything. Is there a special browser preference to do this. I am on Safari using an iMAC. 

Thanks.


----------



## luv4u (May 21, 2007)

*Naam*
*Waheguru* (Punjabi: ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ, _vāhigurū_ or ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ, _vāhgurū_) is a term used by Sikhs to refer to the infinite creator (God). It means "The Wonderful Lord" in the Punjabi language. Other words used in the Guru Granth Sahib to refer to Lord are: Onkar, Satguru, Satnaam (true name), Akal-Purkh, Rabh, Khuda, Allah, Gosain, Hari, Raam, Pritam and numerous more. The most commom usage of the word Waheguru is in the greeting:
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa (The Khalsa (pure one) belongs to Waheguru). 
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh (Victory belongs to Waheguru) 

Waheguru (and its variant, Wahguru) is used only 16 times in the Guru Granth Sahib. Of these, Waheguru occurs 9 times on page 2761 and 6 times on page 1403. Wahguru occurs 2 times on page 1403 and 1 time on page 1404.

*WAHEGURU* or *Vahiguru* also spelt and pronounced Vahguru, is the distinctive name of the Supreme Being in the Sikh dispensation, like Yahweh in Judaism and Allah in Islam. In Sikh Scripture, the Guru Granth Sahib, the term does not figure in the compositions of the Gurus, though it occurs therein, both as Vahiguru and Vahguru, in the hymns of Bhatt Gayand, the bard contemporary with Guru Arjan, Nanak V (1553-1606), and also in the Varan of Bhai Gurdas.


Guru Gobind Singh, Nanak X (1666-1708), used Vahiguru in the invocatory formula (Ik Onkar Sri Vahiguru ji ki Fateh, besides the traditional Ik Onkar Satigur Prasadi) at the beginning of some of his compositions as well as in the Sikh salutation (Vahiguru ji ka Khalsa Vahiguru ji ki Fateh varied as Sri Vahiguru ji ki Fateh). Bhai Gurdas at one place in his Varan (I.49) construes vahiguru as an acrostic using the first consonants of the names of four divine incarnations of the Hindu tradition appearing in four successive eons. Some classical Sikh scholars, such as Bhai Mani Singh, Bhai Santokh Singh and Pandit Tara Singh Narotam, taking this poetic interpretation seriously, have traced the origin of the term in ancient mythology.


Modern scholars, however, affirm that the name Vahiguru is owed originally to the Gurus, most likely to the founder of the faith, Guru Nanak, himself. According to this view, Vahiguru is a compound of two words, one from Persian and the other from Sanskrit, joined in a symbiotic relationship to define the indefinable, indescribable Ultimate Reality. Vah in Persian is an interjection of wonder and admiration, and guru (Sanskrit guru: heavy, weighty, great, venerable; a spiritual parent or preceptor) has been frequently used by Guru Nanak and his successors for satiguru (True Guru) or God. Bhai Santokh Singh, in Sri Gur Nanak Prakash (pp. 1249-51), reporting Guru Nanak’s testament to the Sikhs has thus explicated Vahiguru: Vah is wonder at the Divine might; gu is spiritual darkness while ru is illumination brought to eliminate this darkness.

Cumulatively, the name implies wonder at the Divine Light eliminating spiritual darkness. It might also imply, “Hail the Lord whose name eliminates spiritual darkness.” Earlier, Bhai Mani Singh], Sikhan di Bhagat Mala, gave a similar explication, also on the authority of Guru Nanak. Considering the two constituents of Vahiguru (vahi + guru) implying the state of wondrous ecstasy and offering of homage to the Lord, the first one was brought distinctly and prominently into the devotional system by Guru Nanak, who has made use of this interjection, as in Majh ki Var (stanza 24), and Suhi ki Var, sloka to pauri 10.
Apart from the use of this interjection, the attitude of wonder and total submission at the sight of Divine Greatness is prominently visible in Guru Nanak as evidenced for example in the hymn in Dhanasari:

“gagan mai thalu ravi chandu dipak bane tarika mandal janak moti (GG, 663);
in measure Suhi:
“kaun taraji kavanu tula tera kavanu saraphu bulava” (GG, 730);
and in Japji:
“kete pavan pani vaisantar kete kan mahes, kete barame gharati ghariahi rup rang ke ves” (GG, 7).

In Asa ki Var (GG, 462-75) the opening sloka to pauri 3 is woven round vismad—vismadu nad vismadu ved, wondrous is the sound, wondrous the wisdom. Wonder and ecstasy are expressed at the cosmic order and its mystery full of contradictions, yet all comprehended in the Divinely-appointed system. This salok concludes with: “Ever present to our gaze is wonder. At the sight of this mystery are we wonderstruck. Only by supreme good fortune is it unravelled.” In the opening salok to pauri 4—bhai vichi pavanu vahai sadvau, in (the Lord’s) fear bloweth the wind with its myriad breezes—is expressed wonder at the cosmic “fear” under which the universe operates in obedience to the Divine Law, the Lord alone being exempt from such fear.
In Japji, besides other themes, one that stands out prominent is wonder at the cosmic order, its infinitude and the mystery of its moral élan. As a matter of fact, the theme of Japji may be said to be what occurs in the course of stanza 4: vadiai vicharu (contemplation of Divine infinity). In stanza 16, for example, is the expression of wonder at the limitlessness of space. Stanzas 17-19, each beginning with asankh (infinite), are uttered in the same mood.
In stanza 22—patala patal lakh agasa agas, countless the worlds beneath, countless the worlds above—is a vision of the limitlessness of the universe. So are stanzas 24, 25, 26, 27, 32, 34, 35 and 36. It is in response to this overwhelming vision of Guru Nanak that the unique Name of the Supreme Being, Vahiguru, originated. No other name could have been adequate to express what in his vision he found lying at the heart of the cosmos, compelling a response in the human self attuned to devotion and ecstasy.

Guru Amar Das has also employed the term in Gujari ki Var (GG, 514-16) and in Astpadis in Malar (GG. 1277). In the former, it is calculated that the interjection vahu-vahu (Hail, hail the Lord) is used as many as 96 times. The interjection vahu (hail, wondrous is the Lord) occurs in Guru Ram Das in conjunction with Satiguru (compounded from Guru) in sloka 2 in Sloka Varan te Vadhik (GG, 1421). In Guru Arjan by whose time the formulation Vahiguru appears to have become current and acquired distinctiveness as the Name Divine, the phrase ‘Gur Vahu’ figures in Asa measure (GG, 376). This is only as inverted form of Vahiguru and has the same force and significance. Kavi Santokh Singh in Sri Gur Pratap Suraj Granth (p. 5686) uses the two terms as synonymous: “simrahu vahiguru guru vahi, or contemplate ye Vahiguru, the Lord all hail.”
The earliest use of Vahiguru, in this form, is traceable to Varan by Bhai Gurdas and to Gayand’s hymns in the Guru Granth Sahib. In both it may be said to have occurred contemporaneously, for while no date can be assigned to Bhai Gurdas’ Varan, the work may be assumed to have appeared soon after the compilation of the Scripture in 1604, being so much alive with its spirit and phraseology. Gayand in the course of his lines encomiastic of Guru Ram Das (GG. 1403) made use of Vahiguru as the supreme Name Divine in recognition of the primacy and appeal it had by then come to acquire in the Sikh tradition. In this Savaiyya numbered 11, the term occurs twice as Vah Guru. Earlier in that numbered 6, it is repeated thrice as Vahiguru in the opening line, expressing fervour of devotion. So also in the concluding line of Savaiyya 7. In Savaiyya 12, Vahu Vahu (Wonder, personifying the Lord) signifies the Supreme marvel, embracing the infinitude of the universe. In Savaiyya 13, this name is used twice once as Vahiguru in the opening line and Vah Guru in the last line. In the concluding line of Savaiyya 8, Vahiguru is used thrice, concluding with the interjection Vahi (Hail).
Some relevant lines from Bhai Gurdas, Varan, may also be reproduced here: vahiguru guru sabadu lai piram piala chupi chabola, putting faith in Vahiguru, the Master’s teaching, the seeker drains in peace and tranquillity the cup of devotion (IV. 17); “paunu guru gursabadu hai vahiguru gur sabadu sunaia, paun—guru is the Master’s word wherethrough he imparted the holy name Vahiguru (VI. 5); vahiguru salahna guru sabadu alae, to laud the Lord let me give utterance to the Master’s Word (IX. 13); satiguru purakh daial hoi vahiguru sachu mantra sunaia, the holy Master in his grace imparted to the seeker the sacred incantation Vahiguru (XI. 3); nirankaru akasu kari joti Sarup anup dikhaia, bed kateb agochara vahiguru gursabadu sunaia, the Formless Lord manifesting himself granted sight of His unique effulgent self and imparted to the seeker the Word Vahiguru, that is beyond the ken of Vedas and the Muslim Scriptures” (XII. 17); vahiguru gurmantra hai japi haumai khoi, Vahiguru is the Master’s incantation.
By repeating it egoism is cast out (XIII. 2); dharamsal kartarpuru sadh sangati sachkhandu vasaia, vahiguru gur sabadu sunaia, Guru Nanak in the temple at Kartarpur established the Realm Eternal as the holy congregation, and imparted to it the Divine Word Vahiguru (XXIV. 1); sati namu karta purakhu vahiguru vichi ridai samae, let the seeker lodge in his heart the holy Name, the creator immanent, Vahiguru” (XL. 22). In these verses, Vahiguru signifies the supreme name Divine, to which devotion may be offered. It is transcendent and annular of sin and evil, thus combining in itself the ‘attributed’ and the ‘unattributed’ aspects in consonance with the Sikh doctrine voiced in the Scripture. The main point is that by Guru Arjan’s time and after, this name over all others was established as the object of devotion. The term received the final seal in the time of Guru Gobind Singh.
Vahiguru is for Sikhs the gurmantra (invocatory formula received from the guru) or nam for repetition (silently or aloud, with or without a rosary) and meditation upon the Supreme Reality. Bhai Gurdas in his Varan refers to it variously as japu mantra (invocation for repetition), guru sabadu (the Guru’s Word), sachu mantra (true mantra) and gurmantra. It is also called nam (the Name), and is sometimes compounded as “Satinam-Vahiguru” to be chanted aloud in congregations. Nam japna (repeated utterance of God’s Name, i.e. Vahiguru) is one of the three cardinal moral principles of Sikhism, the other two being kirat karni or honest labour and vand chhakna or sharing one’s victuals with the needy. Since the manifestation of the Khalsa by Guru Gobind Singh in 1699, Vahiguru has been part of the Sikh salutation: Vahiguru ji ka Khalsa, Vahiguru ji ki Fateh (Hail the Khalsa who belongs to the Lord God! Hail the Lord God to whom belongs the victory! ! ). It has since also been the gurmantra imparted formally at initiation to the novitiate by the leader of the Panj Piare administering the rites.

[Bibliography Sabadarth Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Amritsar, 1959 Gurdas, Bhai, Varan. Amritsar, 1962 Mani Singh, Bhai, Sikhan di Bhagat Mala. Amritsar, 1955 Santokh Singh, Bhai, Sri Gur Pratap Suraj Granth. Amritsar, 1927-35 Sher Singh, Philosophy of Sikhism. Lahore, 1944 Above adapted from article By G. S. Talib]
Source: Sikhiwiki: Kindly Google it out


----------



## luv4u (May 22, 2007)

*Guru Nanak Dev Ji And Satnaam*


SatNaam is comprised of two words "SAT" (Truth) and "NAAM" (Name). Humans have giving countless names to God that describe his characteristics eg the Almighty. But according to the Guru the original name God chose for Himself was "SAT" meaning "TRUTH". 


kirtam naam kathay tayray jihbaa. Sat naam tayraa paraa poorbalaa.​ 
With my tongue I describe You with the praise names. 
But, the name "SAT" is Your perfect, primal one.​ 
SGGS - 1082​ 


With the blessings of the Guru, it is the one word that penetrates every heart and pierces through the Universe to take you back to the Source - Truth. 

Five hundred years ago, when Guru Nanak Dev Ji went and met the holy men in the mountains tops, they used their supernatural powers to show off how great they were and hoped that the Guru would join them. When Nath, the head man challenged the Guru to show them a miracle too, this is all the Guru said to them: 


"O respected Nath! Please listen to the truth that I utter. Without SATNAAM I have no other miracle. I may wear the clothes of fire and build my house in the Himalayas . I may eat the iron and make earth move to my orders. I may expand myself so much that I could push the earth. I may weigh the earth and the sky against few grams of weight. I may have so much power that I push aside anybody just by saying so. But without SATNAAM, all these powers are momentary like the Shadow of the clouds."​ 
(Bhai Gurdas Ji Var 1)​ 


Then the holy men tried to use their Supernatural powers again but they found they had all been taken away by God. They fell at the Guru's feet in humility and humbly asked to be blessed with the greatest gift of Naam - SatNaam. 


"I bow before the God-Guru who announced the SATNAAM mantra."​ 
(Bhai Gurdas Ji Var 1 Line 1)​ 



*May The One God Named Truth, the SatNaam, Bless You.*


{url not allowed} - Home​ 
Waheguru and Satnaam are both names of God. By meditating on any name of 
God with a true heart and truthful deeds one will ultimately realise the essence of reality - the TRUTH. 
WaheGuru is a name of God commonly used by Sikhs in meditation. It is comprised of two words WAHE and GURU. GURU in India means a Master of any subject, eg your music teacher is your Guru. However in divinity GURU comes from GUR, which means God's original spiritual form of Supreme Light Energy. When the Supreme Light manifests inside a pure heart, it is that Light that is called GURU - not the physical person. For example Guru Nanak means "The Guru (God's Supreme Light) resided in Nanak's heart". WAHE is Wondrous. Hence saying WaheGuru is praising God as being "The Wondrous Guru". It is praising God inside every enlightened heart. Repeating it removes the darkness of our ego. By recognising the Lord's Light in every God-conscious being past, present and future regardless of religion, we are truly humbled. Humility paves the way for the Supreme Light to enter our heart too. 
SatNaam is also made of two words "SAT" (Truth) and "NAAM" (Name). Humans have giving countless names to God that describe his characteristics eg the Almighty. But according to the Guru the original name God chose for Himself was "SAT" meaning "TRUTH". With the blessings of the Guru, it is the one word that penetrates every heart and pierces through the Universe to take you back to the Source - Truth. 
Five hundred years ago, when Guru Nanak went and met the holy men in the mountains tops, they used their supernatural powers to show off how great they were and hoped that the Guru would join them. When Nath, the head man challenged the Guru to show them a miracle too, this is all the Guru said to them: 
Guru Nanak said, O respected Nath! Please listen to the truth that I utter. 
Without SATNAAM I have no other miracle. I may wear the clothes of fire and build my house in the Himalayas . I may eat the iron and make earth move to my orders. I may expand myself so much that I could push the earth. I may weigh the earth and the sky against few grams of weight. I may have so much power that I push aside anybody just by saying so. But without SATNAAM, all these powers are momentary like the Shadow of the clouds. (Bhai Gurdas) 
Then the holy men tried to use their Supernatural powers again but they found they had all been taken away by God. They fell at the Guru's feet in humility and begged to be blessed with the greatest gift of Naam - SatNaam. 
"I bow before the Guru who announced the SATNAAM mantra." (Bhai Gurdas) 

Mus1k.com - Satnaam Mantra Background

*Satnaam - His name is Sat, Ever True*



*3. Satnaam His name is Sat, Ever True*

A name is always given to something that exist, never to that which does not exist. And here the name itself is Sat, which means 'the Eternal, Changeless Existence'. 

But let us not be satisfied with just the literal meaning. Rather, in our inquiry let us try to understand what Sat really is, and in our meditation discover that which is indicated as Sat. 

Everything in this world of naama, roopa and guna-this world of name, form and quality-is ever-changing. It therefore cannot be Sat. so what is the Reality supporting the world? 

It is observed that the seer of the change is something other than the change. If you have seen all the cars that have passed by whilst you were on the road, certainly you were not in any of the moving cars. In other words, you, the observer or seer of the change, are not part of or inside the change, but outside of it a changeless vantage-point. 

None of the experiences in the three states, waking, dream and deep sleep, can be the Sat. neither the waker, nor the dreamer nor deep sleeper. So what is the Reality supporting the world, and what is the Truth about myself? 

We consider ourselves to be the body and think of ourselves as handsome or beautiful, tall or short, fat or lean, etc. But this body does not exist in our dream or deep sleep. Then how can we say that we are the body? Yet, in spite of the body not being available to us in the other two states, we still exist. Therefore by identifying with the body, I am identifying with the unreal.

The waker is not present in the dream or in deep sleep, nor are the dreamer or sleeper present in the waking state, and still, I, the witness, the saakshi, am aware of all the experiences in the three states. This Awareness or Consciousness, the Atma Chaitanya who is the witness of the three states and therefore of the entire world of experiences, who is the witness of the ever-changing body, mind and intellect, is the Eternal, Changeless Existence, which in philosophy we call 'Truth' and the religion 'God'. 

This is the real I, the Atma Chaitanya, who is the one Changeless in all the changes, which is Om and named as Sat. He who knows this has recognized the Truth. Therefore from the many names of God Shri Guru Nanakji has chosen Sat Naam.

The appellation Sat Naam can also be understood in several other ways: One, as already explained, Its name is Sat because It is the Eternal, Immutable Existence.

Two, Sat Naam also means 'His name is true', or, put another way, 'He is true to His name'. Our names are not as per what we are. A man may be named Ram but his actions might be like Ravana's! The name could be Balbeer, meaning 'strong and courageous', but the man might be such a weakling he could be blown away like a feather! Ishwara or the Lord is truly Sat, therefore He is called by exactly what He is, Sat.

Three, His name is 'Truth' because it leads us to Him and reveals the Truth. 

Four, when we said earlier that the One Lord Om is Sat, that is, It is Eternal, the reader who did not inquire deeply enough could have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as Sat, for everything in this world is changing. So the compassionate Guru Nanakji says that the Lord does have a name…. Which means that He does exist, for one does not give a name to something that does not exist. 

Five, as a name also connotes status, this implies that He, the Lord, has great name and fame. He is the one with the greatest position or status. And it is certainly so, for He is Kartaa Purakh.

Satnaam - His name is Sat, Ever True

Satnaam His name is Sat, Ever True

*Shri Guru Nanakji's *

*IK ONKAAR *

*Shri Guru Nanakji's IK ONKAAR *
*Meditation on The One Indivisible Truth* 
[by Swami Swaroopananda 
Courtesy & Copyright Chinmaya Mission ]

The piece is divided into ten chapters namely - 

*1. Mool Mantra *
*Fundamental Meanings and Philosophical Implications *
Mantras are those mystical sound symbols, or words of deep significance, which serve to protect the person who chants them and reflects upon their meaning. In fact, they are minute "word-capsules" or "phrase-capsules" filled with immense knowledge. 

In the term mool mantra, mool means 'root'. Every tree has roots without which it cannot exist. The tree is sustained and nourished through these roots. They constitute the very foundation of the tree from which it grows and expands. In the same way, mool mantra means 'that mantra in which lies the very essence of the Scripture', the entire Scripture being an elaboration, expansion or explanation of that mantra.

Just as Om is considered to be the mool mantra of the Vedas and the name Shri Ram the essence of the "Ramayan", so too Ik-Onkaar Sat-Naam Kartaa-Purakh Nirbhau Nirvair Akaal-Moorat Ajuni Saibangh Gurparsaad is considered to be the mool mantra of the "Granth Sahib". Revealing and expounding on the Truth enshrined in this mantra is the entire "Japji Sahib", and the elaboration of the "Japji Sahib" is the entire "Granth Sahib". 

From time immemorial it has been the tradition of all the great Rishis of the Holy Land of Bharat to first invoke the Higher to bestow auspiciousness upon Them before They commence writing or composing any sacred textbook. All such prayers, invocations, and praises are called mangalaacharan.

Through these invocations the Rishis surrendered Their ego, Their sense of limited individuality, so that it would not "contaminate" or influence the sacred task They were about to embark on. All the same time They sought the blessings of the Higher, by whose Grace alone can anything be successfully achieved. 

Shri Guru Nanak Devji is the Rishi who is the mantra dhrashtaa or 'seer' of the 'Ik-Onkaar….' mool mantra, which means that this mantra was revealed to Him in His meditation.[ I am not sure Of this. the readers may kindly like to establish]

It was with this mool mantra as well that He performed mangalaacharan, praising the lord before starting on the "Japji Sahib".

*Saibangh - He is Self-existent and Self-illuminating*

That which is the cause of the entire universe has nothing other than Itself as Its cause. So no one created God. He was ever existent and will ever remain. 

If we say that someone created God, then the next question would be, "who created that which created God?" And we could go on and on ad nauseam. So logically we would have to conclude that there is one ultimate self-existent cause of the universe, and that cause we call the supreme Reality or God. 

This is self-existent Reality; by what can it be known? How can we recognize it? 

All the objects in the world are illuminated by the sun or some source of light and are thus perceived by our senses and apprehended by out intellect. But by which light can we perceive the ultimate Reality, and with what instrument can we know or understand It? 

The sun cannot illuminate It, nor the senses perceive It nor the intellect know It... for it is the very subject by whose light all objects - including the sun - are illuminated, and because of which the senses, mind and intellect can function. Therefore, Shri Guru Nanakji says, It is Saibangh, which means It is 'shining in Its own light'....It is 'self-illuminating'. 

It is of the nature of Consciousness without which even the sun cannot be seen. This Consciousness which lights up the entire universe including the body, senses, mind and intellect, because of which the entire universe is known and in Whose light of awareness, the sun, the moon, the stars, the lightning and the fire shine, what other source is required to illuminate It? It is ever shining in Its own light. 

How can such a Reality be gained? It can be gained only through Gurparsaad (the Grace of the Guru). 

Saibangh - He is Self-existent and Self-illuminating
Saibangh - He is Self-existent and Self-illuminating

*Mool Mantar*
The *Mool Mantar* (also spelt *Mul Mantra*) is the most important composition contained within the Sri Guru Granth Sahib; it is the basis of Sikhism. The word _*Mool*_ means *main *, *root* or *chief* and _*Mantar*_ means *magic chant* or *magic portion*. Together the words _*Mool Mantar*_ mean the *Main chant* or *root verse*. It’s importance is emphasised by the fact that it is the first composition to appear in the SGGS and that it appears before the commencement of most of the Raags within the Sikh holy scripture. 


 


Manglacharan in the handwriting of Guru Arjan Dev ji from the Kartarpuri Bir


The *Mool Mantar* is said to be the first composition uttered by Guru Nanak Dev ji upon enlightenment at the age of 30. Being the basis of Sikhism it encapsulates the entire theology of Sikhism. It is also the most brief & comprehensive composition encompassing universally complex Religious, Social, Political, Logical, Martial & eternaly TRUE humanitarian concepts. Concepts, evaluated & proved as flawless beyond any ambiguity what so ever. The proceeding Japji Sahib and the rest of the SGGS totaling 1430 pages, is detailed amplification of the Mool Mantar. 
This is the verse that all beginners to Sikhism have to learn and repeat over and over again until it becomes an automatic process. After learning this short verse and its full meaning, it is common for beginners to awake early in the morning, wash and sit and mediate on the Mantar for 10 to 20 minutes focussing on the sound and meaning of each word. It is said that the rest of the Guru Granth Sahib is an elaborations of the *Mool Mantar* and that this Mantar is an explanation of the word – Ek Oankaar, which is the first entry in the SGGS and this Mantar. 


"The Mul Mantra, the Root Mantra, is the only cure for the mind; I have installed faith in God in my mind" - SGGS page 675 
Mool Mantar - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

I have posted material on 'waheguru', satnaam' IKonkar,Saibhung and Mool Mantar. I have taken these from various sources as available on net.

*Analysis Of Mool Mantar*
The *Mool Mantar* is said to be the first composition uttered by Guru Nanak Dev ji upon enlightenment at the age of 30. Being the basis of Sikhism it encapsulates the entire theology of Sikhism. It is also the most brief & comprehensive composition encompassing universally complex Religious, Social, Political, Logical, Martial & eternaly TRUE humanitarian concepts. Concepts, evaluated & proved as flawless beyond any ambiguity what so ever. The proceeding Japji Sahib and the rest of the SGGS totaling 1430 pages, is detailed amplification of the Mool Mantar. 

Ek Oankaar |ੴ
_*There is only One God*_ 
*Ek | One*



 


Mool Mantar Poster


There is but one God, the Sole Supreme Being, the Ultimate Reality. The number one denotes that God is non-dual (advait). Bhai Gurdas writes, "By writing 1 (one) in the begining, it has been shown that EkOnakar, God, who subsumes all forms in Him is only One (and not two or three)" The number one also affirms His being a personality and not merely _Shunya_ or void. 
The negation of duality implies Absoluteness of God's Being. Being Absolute, God cannot be comprehended by the mind. The mind is capable of knowing only those things, phenomena, facts and concepts which are bipolar or relative. God being Non-Dual and Absolute, is Unknowable to man's mind. A simple example of this is in imagining distances: one could quite easily indicate that a metre in height is so high; even two or three metres. However when it comes to large distances, one mile, or two miles it cannot be imagined by the mind, or fully comprehended and so a standard is used for comparison: this mountain is x miles high, this tree is so high etc 
*Oankaar*

The word 'O-ankaar' denotes that God manifests Himself ceaselessly throughout His Creation in diverse forms, features and colours, and in this way becomes knowable to man. But, in spite of manifesting Himself diversing, God remains One; He remains Immanent in His Creation, while at the same time remaining Transcendent. This God is at once One and Many implying Unity in Diversity. Kapur Singh suggests Oan = Transcedent, -kar = Immanent. The Mandukopanishad defines the word as: "That which was, is, will be, is all Onkar. And that which triple transcends is Onkar too." 
*Satnam | ਸਤਿਨਾਮੁ *

_*His Name is TRUTH*_ 
*Sat | ਸਤਿ *

In Sanskrit there are two words which have this root: _Sat_ which means beingness, existence and _Satya_ which means truth, validity. There is a great difference between the two. Satya is the quest of the philosopher who seeks truth. What is this truth? It lies in the rules whereby two plus two always equals four, and never five or three. So Satya is a mathematical formula, a man-made calculation, but it is not Sat. It is logical truth but not existential reality. Sat is that which just is, always was, eternal. God is both Sat and Satya, existence as well as truth. Being both He can neither be fully attained through science, which probes truth, nor through arts, which explores existence. Both are incomplete in their search, because they are directed only towards one half of Him. Where both meet, where the mind and heart meet, religion begins. If the mind overpowers the heart, science is born. If the heart overpowers the mind, the realm of art is entered: poetry, music, song, sculpture. Science and Art are dualities, religion is the synthesis. 
Giani Jagtar "Jachak", past head granthi in Harmandar Sahib teaches that God is the only, stable origin of creation. He creates, and He constantly touches up His masterpiece creation, like an artist who caringly touches up his work. The universe will eternally follow the plan of His "hukam" all the natural laws of the universe. Creation is the results of God's hukam which never ceases. All things in the unviverse are contstantly being recycled or changing in molecular structure. 
*Naam | ਨਾਮੁ *

*Naam* literally means, _the Name_. A fuller definition of the word can only be found within the SGGS itself. Naam is God’s _Word_, or the Divine Essence. Etymologically, the word has a striking resemblence with the Greek _neumena_ or the Bright Essence as opposed to phenomena. Naam is not merely the ‘Name of God’ as is commonly believed; it symbolises the Being of God filling all Creation. Naam is also referred to as Sabad in the SGGS. 
Where there was no creation, there was nothing in existence – no air, light, water, earth or space. God existed alone in deep meditation and self absorption. When God willed for the manifestations of his values, He created universes, worlds and all material and other living beings by uttering a single _Word_. His _Word_ is all pervasive and the sole source of all Creation; the _Word_ created the universes and supports and sustains all things within them. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib further enlightens us that God’s Word turned into waves of light, rays of which are present in all creatures and all other parts of His creation. This is consistent with a fundamental principle of physics that sound vibrations, when increased several fold, change into waves of light. 
This Essence / Naam / Sabad / Logus is formless, colourless, and featureless but, as said, is present in all creation. There is no plant, no creature, in what it is not. The Earth and other heavenly bodies exist because there is Naam in this universe and when God withdraws this Naam from this Universe, their is natural calamities (Parloh / Mahaparloh) all over the universe and this is the time that the universe perishes and all the living creatures perish. Being so, the Essence can’t be seen or visualised by the mind. We can see only the physical dimension of Reality in God’s Creation – mountains, plants, trees, creatures etc. Thus the Outer Shell of Reality holds us (the appearences delude us) and we cannot penetrate deeper to experience the all pervading Reality. The physical dimensions of Reality (the outer shell) is always in flux; it keeps changing. While birth, death, creation, destruction etc. occur in the physical dimensions of creation, the Essence, being _Sat_ (Sat-Naam) never changes, it transcends space and time. 
We cannot focus our mind or attention on God, who is Absolute, the invisible Essence. The Naam (SHABD), the Name of God is the only medium available to us for approaching Him. The Naam actually is a combination of 5 words (which actually are the name of 5 supernatural heavenly places which fall on the way when the soul is starting towards the SACHKHAND) which only a true Guru can give to it's disciples. All who get Naam from the Guru have to concentrate at one point in their mind and recite the Naam in their mind without actually uttering it. When we recite Naam, our soul starts responding to it. It actually starts to shrink and starts moving towards the the point in our body called the THIRD EYE. When a person practices it for a very long time he/she reaches the SACHKHAND. Thus, it is through the Naam that we are able to think of Him, to remember Him. In other words, the Naam is God Himself, adopted to our limited powers of perception and thought, adopted to the capacities of our body and mind. Because we are endowed with the capacity to utter and attentively listen, the continuous recitation of and attentive listening to the Naam focuses our mind on the object of invocation, resulting in a ceaseless rememberence of God (DHYAAN). This Dhyaan, in turn, results in complete absorption of our conciousness on the thought of God, who responds to our earnest invocation and reveals Himself in our inner being. 
The revelation of the Essence of Reality within us is the revelation of Naam. When the revelation of Naam occurs within, the devotee sees His the Essence of God pervading throughout His Creation. 
Gurus have tought that their teachings are for all the religion (varnas)and all have the right to get the teachings of the Gurus. To Initate our soul so that it starts towards the ultimate goal (SACHKHAND) a person has to repeatidly and continuously recite the Naam, and to cherish it in the heart all the time – this is the essence of prayer and devotion to God. 
In Gurbani, the word Gursabad or Sabad is synonymous with Naam. Without ceaseless recitation of Naam the God cannot be realised. 
*Karta Purakh | ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ *

_*The Creator*_ 
_Karta_ translates literally as the Doer, the Creator. _Purukh_ translates literally as man, husband, basically a male person. 
In the Sankhya system of Hindu philosophy, _Purusha_ (the Universal Spirit), eternal, indestructible, all pervasive, is without activity or attribute, and if it is left to _Prakriti_ (primal nature), itself an uncaused cause, and an ultimate principle, to bring the phenomenal world into being. 
The Sikh doctrine, however, while making use of the word, emphasizes Purusha being Himself and only Creator. As in Sufi and Vaishnavic lore, He is the only He, His creatures being females longing to go out and Unite with Him. 
Dr.Santokh Singh says: God, the Supreme Being, Himself is the Creator (Kartaa), and being immanent in His Creation, is All Pervasive and fills all (Purakh). He is thus Omniscient, knowing each one's inner mind, and Omnipotent, doing everything everywhere - evoluting, sustaining, and involuting. 
By stating God as the Creator, one may think that the Creator and His creation to be separate. When man sculpts an idol and the idol is completed, the sculptor and the sculpture are no longer one; they are separate. And the sculpture will remain long after the sculptor is dead. If the image fractures, the sculptor is not also broken, because the two are separate. There is no such distance between God and His creation. 
What kind of relationship exists between God and His creation? It is like a dancer with his dance. When man dances can you separate him from his dance? Can he return home leaving the dance behind? If the dancer dies, so the dance dies with him. When the dance stops, he is no longer the dancer. They are united. This is why since ancient times, Hindus have looked upon God as the dancer, “Nataraj.” In this symbol the dancer and the dance are one. 
The poet is no longer related to his poem, once it is finished. The sculptor is separated from his sculpture as soon as it is completed. A mother gives birth to a child, and they are separate; the father is always distinct from the child. But God is not distinct from His creation; He is contained in it. It would be more accurate to say: the Creator is the creation, or the creator is nothing but creativity. 
This is essentially the reason why Guru Nanak Dev ji says there is no need to renounce or run away from the world. Wherever you are, He is. Guru Nanak Dev ji gave birth to a unique religion in which the householder and sannyasin are one. He alone is entitled to call himself a Sikh who, being a householder is yet a sannyasin; who, being a sannyasin is still a householder. It is difficult to be a Sikh. It is easy to be a householder OR a sannyasin, but as a Sikh you are to be both. You have to remain in the house – but as if you’re not there, as if you are in the Himalayas. Keep running the shop, but maintain the remembrance of His name ever throbbing within; you can count your cash but take His name along with it. 
A further point to note here is that the householder-sannyasin as exampled by Guru Nanak, and further emphasised by Guru Gobind Singh in terms of the Sant-Sipahi (Saint-Soldier), resulting in the formation of the Khalsa, is a formidible being because he cannot be corrupted. He who sits right in your world and yet is not of it can in no way be tempted. The Khalsa is spiritually rich, which cannot be taken from him and also he earns a living and so is not enamoured by the trappings of wealth. 
*Nirbhao | ਨਿਰਭਉ *

_*Without Fear*_ 
_Bhao_ translates as fear, and _Nir_ translates as without. God is without fear: Origin of fear is possible only if there is another being besides Him. Fear always involves the other: if someone can take something away from you it destroys your security. But, as God is Absolute, Himself immanent in all His Creation, whom is He to be afraid of? A corollary to this attribute, stated positively, is that God is all Bliss. 
*Nirvair | ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ *

_*Without Hate*_ 
_Vair_ translates as enmity, hostility and _Nir_ is without. God is without rancour or enmity; As God is the Sole Supreme Being, Himself immanent and pervasive in His Creation, against whom is He to have rancour, enmity, hatred or ill-will? A corollary to this attribute, stated positively, is that God is all Love. He is above all fear and is free from all thoughts of enmity. 
*Akaal Moorat | ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ*

_*Being Beyond Time*_ 
_Akaal_ translates as 'not subject to time or death' and _Moorat_ translates as form, shape, image. God is a Being beyond time: An Eternal, Indestructible Entity. 
Time means change. We are aware of time because we are surrounded by change: the sun rises and it is morning, then it is afternoon and then evening; first there is the infant, then the youth, then the old man; a healthy man becomes ill, an ill person healthy; a rich man becomes a pauper, a pauper becomes a king. For God there is no time because He is eternal, perpetual, immortal. He is forever. For Him nothing is changing; everthing is static. Change is the experience of sightless eyes that do not see things in their full perspective. If we could see things from the furthest vantage point all change drops away, and then time stops; it ceases to exist. For God all things are as they are; nothing changes, everything is static. 
*Ajoonee | ਅਜੂਨੀ *

_*Unborn / Not-incarnated*_ 
_Joon_ is a feminine noun and translates as 'birth, existence', the _A-_ suggests 'Beyond'. 
God is Unborn, Uncreated, Beyond Incarnation: He Himself, being the Primal Being, no being prior to Him can be conceived. 
Sikhism rejects out of hand the theory of incarnation of God. The Guru-Saint thus is not God-incarnate, even though he has all the attributes of a living, human God and so identified with Him, as is his Word the (disembodied) embodiment of the Gur through which he reveals his God-nature. 
*Saibhan | ਸੈਭੰ *

_*Self-existent*_ 
_Saibhan_ is derived from the Sanskrit _swayambhu_ and as stated above, is translated as self-existent. The meaning of self-existent is that He is self-creating, He exists by Himself and has no support except His own; He is self-begotten and has no origin. 
*Gur Prasaad | ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ *

*By the favour of the 'Shabad Guru' i.e. 'Satgur' ( in short 'Gur' )* 
_Gur_ stands for Guru: Master, Spiritual Teacher, Guide. _Prasad_ translates as favour, grace; thus He is attained by the Grace of the Enlightener. 
The above translation is that which is given by the majority of Sikhs. Both Macauliffe and Dr.Gopal Singh have suggested that the Mool Mantar was intended as epithets of God - Macauliffe suggest the phrase to mean, "the great and bountiful." 
Guru Nanak Dev ji had no human Guru; his Guru was *Satgur*. _Sat_(TRUE/TRUTH)_gur_(In Gurmukhi litteraly meaning IDEA/SOLUTION/KEY to a problem) It was during the spiritual supremacy of his successors the favour of the Guru was invoked, and deemed indispensible for deliverance. Moreover, suggests Macauliffe, though _Gur Prasad_ does sometimes in the Guru Granth Sahib means the Guru's favour, it more often expressed by _Guru Parsadi_. 
Dr.Gopal Singh says that "...many Sikh and European translators have joined the word _Gur_ and _Prasad_ together to suggest: "By favour (or Grace) of the Guru (is He dwelt upon)". But here Guru Nanak is giving, in monosyllables, the attributes of God. The Guru here, therefore, is Guru-in-God whose Grace is invoked. As such _Guru_ can only be rendered as "Enlightener" which is also its literal meaning in Sanskrit." 

I have just tried to present the analysis Of Mool Mantar and explanation .These are taken from the following pages of SikhiWiki. One may refer to these for a detailed analysis. One may also like to add other material to make the contents richer.


----------



## luv4u (May 23, 2007)

Dear friends,

The above posts were broken into parts so that the material is presented in a sequential way.I am sorry that the matter has been clubbed by the Moderator Surinder Kaur Cheema ji for some convenience that she felt would be availablke to the readers in presenting the posts in a haphazard manner. In any case kindly permit me to say that the Moderator , it appears , is a part of management though it may not be. This thread has been totally spoiled by the moderators and their exclusive right to change and alter the material including the sequential order of the posts.

I ask for forgiveness for all the mistakes and the mess up in the order in which the above posts should have appeared in the logical manner. I am ,in any case, not doing any research. I am just sharing that I am learnig.


----------



## simpy (May 23, 2007)

luv4u said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> The above posts were broken into parts so that the material is presented in a sequential way.I am sorry that the matter has been clubbed by the Moderator Surinder Kaur Cheema ji for some convenience that she felt would be availablke to the readers in presenting the posts in a haphazard manner. In any case kindly permit me to say that the Moderator , it appears , is a part of management though it may not be. This thread has been totally spoiled by the moderators and their exclusive right to change and alter the material including the sequential order of the posts.
> 
> I ask for forgiveness for all the mistakes and the mess up in the order in which the above posts should have appeared in the logical manner. I am ,in any case, not doing any research. I am just sharing that I am learnig.


 

*Respected lov4u Ji,*

*Please don’t make it difficult for all. this is forum rule that we cannot have same person make multiple posts under the same thread within a matter of minutes, unless all those are addressed to different members or specified to be so. And there will be timimngs when system unapprove your posts- there is a genuine reason for it. If you will specify, management can take a look at it and may approve it to be the way you want it. LET US WORK TOGETHER.....*

*i humbly suggest, please specify in the very first post in this kind of series if you particularly want it that way, OR keep considerable time limit in-between your posting time for each one(like one in the morning and the second one in the evening or the next day or so…..).*

*me neech is extremly sorry if it damaged your presentation in any manner. me neech simply followed the rules .*

*Once again please be considerate to all. we all are learning, and during this learning experience there are some rules and regulations that we all are supposed to follow, SO THAT ALL CAN HAVE A GOOD LEARNING EXPERIENCE *

*humbly asking for everybody’s forgiveness.*


----------



## spnadmin (May 23, 2007)

Respected all,

To set minds at ease. Luv4u ji, we couldn't really even tell that your long post had been broken up into pieces. You are sharing your learning in great detail. There is much to think about in each one of them, and it takes a while to read each part with understanding anyway. So this may have been a blessing in disguise.

Anyway, that happened to me once. I posted two thoughts one right after the other and the second one was automatically erased-- by the computer, not by a person. It really didn't matter in the end.

Just the other day I finally learned what Chardikala means. The word seemed to be everywhere for a week. So be cheerful, because God is always cheerful.


----------



## luv4u (May 24, 2007)

Thanks aadji and surinder kaur ji,

I am grateful for the kind guidance that I have obtained from the above messages.


----------



## luv4u (May 27, 2007)

I am posting below the Hukumnama of 28th May,2007, The 'word' and ,Name' etc, have been underlined.

*[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][May 28, 2007, Monday 04:30 AM. IST] [/FONT][/FONT]*​ 
*vfhMsu mhlw 1 ] *​*bwbw AwieAw hY auiT clxw iehu jgu JUTu pswro vw ] scw Gru scVY syvIAY scu Krw sicAwro vw ] kUiV lib jW Qwie n pwsI AgY lhY n TwE ] AMqir Awau n bYshu khIAY ijau suM\Y Gir kwE ] jMmxu mrxu vfw vyCoVw ibnsY jgu sbwey ] lib DMDY mwieAw jgqu BulwieAw kwlu KVw rUAwey ]1] bwbw Awvhu BweIho gil imlh imil imil dyh AwsIsw hy ] bwbw scVw mylu n cukeI pRIqm kIAw dyh AsIsw hy ] AwsIsw dyvho Bgiq kryvho imilAw kw ikAw mylo ] ieik BUly nwvhu Qyhhu Qwvhu gur sbdI scu Kylo ] jm mwrig nhI jwxw sbid smwxw juig juig swcY vysy ] swjn sYx imlhu sMjogI gur imil Koly Pwsy ]2] bwbw nWgVw AwieAw jg mih duKu suKu lyKu ilKwieAw ] iliKAVw swhw nw tlY jyhVw purib kmwieAw ] bih swcY iliKAw AMimRqu ibiKAw ijqu lwieAw iqqu lwgw ] kwmixAwrI kwmx pwey bhu rMgI gil qwgw ] hoCI miq BieAw mnu hoCw guVu sw mKI KwieAw ] nwmrjwdu AwieAw kil BIqir nWgo bMiD clwieAw ]3] bwbw rovhu jy iksY rovxw jwnIAVw bMiD pTwieAw hY ] iliKAVw lyKu n mytIAY dir hwkwrVw AwieAw hY ] hwkwrw AwieAw jw iqsu BwieAw ruMny rovxhwry ] puq BweI BwqIjy rovih pRIqm Aiq ipAwry ] BY rovY gux swir smwly ko mrY n muieAw nwly ] nwnk juig juig jwx is jwxw rovih scu smwly ]4]5] *

somvwr, 14 jyT (sMmq 539 nwnkSwhI) (AMg: 581) 




*pMjwbI ivAwiKAw** :**vfhMsu mhlw 1 ] *​


hy BweI! (jgq ivc jyhVw BI jIv jnm lY ky) AwieAw hY aus ny (Aw^r ieQoN) kUc kr jwxw hY (iksy ny ieQy sdw nhIN bYT rihxw) ieh jgq hY hI nwsvMq iKlwrw [ jy sdw-iQr rihx vwly prmwqmw dw ismrn krIey qW sdw-iQr rihx vwlw itkwxw iml jWdw hY [ jyhVw mnu`K sdw-iQr pRBU ƒ ismrdw hY auh pivq® jIvn vwlw ho jWdw hY, auh sdw-iQr pRBU dy pRkwS leI Xog bx jWdw hY [ jyhVw mnu`K mwieAw dy moh ivc jW mwieAw dy lwlc ivc PisAw rihMdw hY auh prmwqmw dI drgwh ivc kbUl nhIN hMudw, aus ƒ pRBU dI hzUrI ivc QW nhIN imldI [ ijvyN sMu\y Gr ivc gey kW ƒ (iksy ny rotI dI grwhI Awidk nhIN pwxI) (iqvyN mwieAw dy moh ivc Psy jIv ƒ pRBU dI hzUrI ivc) iksy ny ieh nhIN AwKxw—AwE jI, AMdr lMG Awvo qy bYT jwvo [ aus mnu`K ƒ jnm mrn dw gyV Bugqxw pY jWdw hY, aus ƒ (ies gyV dy kwrn pRBU-crnW nwloN) lMmw ivCoVw ho jWdw hY [ (mwieAw dy moh ivc Ps ky) jgq Awqmk mOq shyV irhw hY (jyhVy BI moh ivc Psdy hn auh) swry (Awqmk mOq mrdy hn) [ lwlc dy kwrn mwieAw dy hI Awhr ivc ipAw hoieAw jgq shI jIvn-rwh qoN KuMiJAw rihMdw hY [ ies dy isr auqy Kloqw kwl ies ƒ du`KI krdw rihMdw hY [1[ hy BweI! hy Brwvo! AwE, AsI ipAwr nwl rl ky bYTIey, qy iml ky (Awpxy ivCuVy swQI ƒ) AsIsW dyvIey (aus dy vwsqy pRBU-dr qy ArdwsW krIey) pRIqm-pRBU nwl imlx dIAW AsIsW dyeIey (ArdwsW krIey [ sdw-iQr myl isr& prmwqmw nwl hI hMudw hY qy Ardws dI brkiq nwl auh) sdw-iQr rihx vwlw imlwp kdy mu`kdw nhIN [ (hy sqsMgI Brwvo! rl ky ivCuVy swQI leI) ArdwsW kro (Aqy Awp BI) prmwqmw dI BgqI kro (BgqI dI brkiq nwl prmwqmw dy crnW ivc imlwp ho jWdw hY) jyhVy iek vwrI pRBU-crnW nwl iml jWdy hn auhnW dw iPr kdy ivCoVw nhIN hMudw [ pr keI AYsy hn jo prmwqmw dy nwm qoN KuMJy iPrdy hn jo sdw kwiem rihx vwly itkwxy qoN auKVy iPrdy hn [ sdw-iQr pRBU dw nwm ismrnw shI jIvn-Kyf hY jo gurU dy Sbd ivc juV ky KyfI jw skdI hY [ jyhVy mnu`K gurU dy Sbd ivc lIn rihMdy hn auh jm dy rsqy qy nhIN jWdy, auh sdw leI hI aus prmwqmw ivc juVy rihMdy hn ijs dw srUp (vys) sdw leI At`l hY [ hy s`jx im`q® sqsMgIE! sqsMg ivc rl bYTo [ jyhVy bMdy sqsMg ivc Awey hn auhnW ny gurU ƒ iml ky mwieAw dy moh dy Pwhy v`F ley hn [2[ hy BweI! (jIv Awpxy pUrbly kIqy krmW Anuswr nvyN jIvn ivc Bogx vwsqy) du`K Aqy suK-rUp lyK (prmwqmw dI drgwh ivcoN Awpxy m`Qy qy) ilKw ky jgq ivc nMgw hI AwauNdw hY (jnm smy hI auh smw BI inXq kIqw jWdw hY jdoN jIv ny jgq qoN vwps qur pYxw hMudw hY) auh mukrr kIqw hoieAw smw AgWh ipCWh nhIN ho skdw, (nwh hI auh duK suK vwprnoN ht skdw hY) jo pUrbly jnm ivc krm kr ky (kmweI vjoN) K`itAw hY [ (jIv dy kIqy krmW Anuswr) sdw-iQr rihx vwly prmwqmw ny soc-ivcwr ky ilK id`qw hMudw hY ik jIv ny nvyN jIvn-s&r ivc nwm-AMimRq ivhwJxw hY jW mwieAw-zihr K`txw hY [ (ipCly kIqy Anuswr hI pRBU dI rzw ivc) ijDr jIv ƒ lwieAw jWdw hY auDr ieh l`g pYNdw hY [ (ausy ilKy Anuswr hI) jwdU tUxy krn vwlI mwieAw jIv auqy jwdU pw dyNdI hY, ies dy gl ivc keI rMgW vwlw Dwgw pw dyNdI hY (Bwv, keI qrIikAW nwl mwieAw ies ƒ moh lYNdI hY) [ (ies mohxI mwieAw dy pRBwv hyT hI) jIv dI miq QoVH-ivqI ho jWdI hY, jIv dw mn QoVH-ivqw ho jWdw hY (Bwv, ies ivc ivqkrw qy myr-qyr Aw jWdy hn, Awpxy in`ky ijhy suArQ qoN bwhr vyK soc nhIN skdw), ijvyN m`KI guV KWdI hY (qy guV nwl cMbV ky hI mr jWdI hY, iqvyN jIv mwieAw nwl cMbV ky Awqmk mOqy mr jWdw hY) [ jIv jgq ivc nMgw hI AwauNdw hY qy nMgw hI bMnH ky A`gy lw ilAw jWdw hY [3[ hy BweI! (ijs jIv dy ieQoN clwxy dw s`dw Aw jWdw hY, ro ro ky aus s`dy ƒ twl nhIN skIdw, ieh At`l inXm hY, pr iPr BI) jy iksy ny (ies s`dy ƒ twlx leI) roxw hI hY qW ro ky vyK lvo [ ipAwrw sMbMDI bMnH ky A`gy qor ilAw jWdw hY [ (aus dy ieQoN kUc vwsqy prmwqmw dI drgwh dw) iliKAw hukm imtw nhIN skIdw, pRBU dy dr qoN s`dw Aw jWdw hY (auh s`dw Aim`t hY) [ jdoN prmwqmw ƒ (AwpxI rzw ivc) cMgw l`gdw hY, qW (jIv vwsqy kUc dw) s`dw Aw jWdw hY, rox vwly sMbMDI roNdy hn [ pu`qr, Brw, BqIjy, bVy ipAwry sMbMDI (sBy hI) roNdy hn [ jIv (kUc kr jwx vwly Awpxy sMbMDI dy ip`Cy dunIAw ivc vwprn vwly du`KW dy) shm ivc roNdw hY, qy aus dy guxW (suKW) ƒ muV muV cyqy krdw hY, pr kdy BI koeI jIv muey pRwxIAW dy nwl mrdw nhIN hY (jIaUxw hryk ƒ ipAwrw l`gdw hY, AweI qoN ibnw koeI mr BI nhIN skdw) [ hy nwnk! (ieh mrn qy jMmx dw islislw qW jwrI hI rihxw hY) auh bMdy sdw hI mhw isAwxy hn jo sdw-iQr-pRBU dy gux ihrdy ivc vsw ky mwieAw dy moh vloN auprwm hMudy hn [4[5[ 
[SIZE=-1]English Translation :[/SIZE] 
WADAHANS, FIRST MEHL:​O Baba, whoever has come, will rise up and leave; this world is a false show. One’s true home is obtained by serving the True One; real Truth comes by being truthful. By falsehood and greed, no place of rest is found, and no place in the world hereafter is obtained. No one invites him to come in and sit down — he is like a crow in a deserted house. Caught in birth and death, separated from God for such a long time, the whole world is wasting away. Greed, worldly entanglements and Maya deceive the world. Death hovers over its head, and makes it cry. || 1 || Come, O Baba, and Siblings of Destiny — let’s join together; take me in your arms, and bless me with your prayers. O Baba, union with the True One cannot be broken; bless me with your prayers for union with my Beloved. Bless me with your prayers, that I may worship God with devotion; for those already united with Him, what more is there to unite? Some have wandered away from the Name of God — they have lost the Path. The Word of the Guru’s Shabad is the true game. Do not go on the path of Death; remain absorbed in the Shabad, the true form throughout the ages. Through good fortune, we meet such friends and relatives, who meet with the Guru, and escape the noose of Death. || 2 || O Baba, we come into the world naked, into pain and pleasure, according to the record of our account. The call of our pre-ordained destiny cannot be altered; it follows from our past actions. The True Lord sits and writes of ambrosial nectar and bitter poison; as the Lord attaches us, so are we attached. The charmer, Maya, has worked her charms, and the multi-colored thread is around everyone’s neck. Through shallow intellect, the mind becomes shallow, and one eats the fly, along with the sweets. Contrary to custom, he comes into the Dark Age of Kali Yuga naked, and naked he is bound down and sent away again. || 3 || O Baba, weep and mourn if you must; the beloved soul is bound and driven off. The pre-ordained record of destiny cannot be erased; the summons has come from the Lord’s Court. The messenger comes, when it pleases God, and the mourners begin to mourn. Sons, brothers, nephews and very dear friends weep and wail. Let him weep, who weeps in the Fear of God, cherishing the virtues of God — no one dies with the dead. O Nanak, throughout the ages, they are known as wise, who weep, remembering the True One. || 4 || 5 || 

Monday, 14th Jayt’h (Samvat 539 Nanakshahi) (Page: 581)


----------



## luv4u (May 28, 2007)

*It is the Hukumnama for 29th May,2007.*
*[May 29, 2007, Tuesday 04:30 AM. IST] *
*soriT mhlw 5 ] *​*ismir ismir pRB Bey Anµdw duK klys siB nwTy ] gun gwvq iDAwvq pRBu Apnw kwrj sgly sWTy ]1] jgjIvn nwmu qumwrw ] gur pUry dIE aupdysw jip Baujlu pwir auqwrw ] rhwau ] qUhY mMqRI sunih pRB qUhY sBu ikCu krxYhwrw ] qU Awpy dwqw Awpy Bugqw ikAw iehu jMqu ivcwrw ]2] ikAw gux qyry AwiK vKwxI kImiq khxu n jweI ] pyiK pyiK jIvY pRBu Apnw Acrju qumih vfweI ]3] Dwir AnugRhu Awip pRB sÍwmI piq miq kInI pUrI ] sdw sdw nwnk bilhwrI bwCau sMqw DUrI ]4]13]63] *

mMglvwr, 15 jyT (sMmq 539 nwnkSwhI)(AMg : 625) *

pMjwbI ivAwiKAw :**soriT mhlw 5 ] *​hy pRBU qyrw nwm ismr ismr ky ismrn krn vwly mnu`K pRsMn-ic`q ho jWdy hn, auhnW dy AMdroN swry du`K-klyS dUr ho jWdy hn[ hy BweI! v@f-BwgI mnu`K Awpxy pRBU dy gux gWidAW Aqy aus dw iDAwn DridAW Awpxy swry kMm svwr lYNdy hn[1[hy pRBU! qyrw nwm jgq dy jIvW nMU Awqmk jIvn dyx vwlw hY[ pUry siqgurU ny ijs mnu`K nMU qyrw nwm ismrn dw aupdyS id`qw, auh mnu`K nwm jp ky sMswr-smuMdr qoN pwr lMG igAw[1[rhwau[ hy pRBU! qMU Awp hI Awpxw slwhkwr hYN, qMU Awp hI hryk jIv nMU dwqW dyx vwlw hYN, qMU Awp hI hryk jIv ivc bYTw pdwrQW nMMU Bogx vwlw hYN[ ies jIv dI koeI pWieAW nhIN hY[2[ hy pRBU! mY qyry gux AwK ky ibAwn krn jogw nhIN hW[ qyrI kdr-kImq d`sI nhIN jw skdI[ qyrw vf`px hYrwn kr dyx vwlw hY[ hy BweI! mnu`K Awpxy pRBU dw drSn kr kr ky Awqmk jIvn pRwpq kr lYNdw hY[3[ hy pRBU! hy suAwmI! qMU Awp hI jIv auqy ikrpw kr ky aus nMU lok prlok ivc ie`zq b^Sdw hYN, aus nMu pUrI Akl dy dyNdw hYN[ hy nwnk! AwK-hy pRBU! mYN sdw hI qYQoN kurbwn jWdw hW[ mYN qyry dr qoN sMq jnW dy crnW dI DUV mMgdW hW[4[13[63[ 
[SIZE=-1]English Translation :[/SIZE] 
SORAT’H, FIFTH MEHL: ​Remembering, remembering God in meditation, bliss ensues, and one is rid of all suffering and pain. Singing the Glorious Praises of God, and meditating on Him, all my affairs are brought into harmony. || 1 || Your Name is the Life of the world. The Perfect Guru has taught me, that by meditating, I cross over the terrifying world-ocean. || Pause || You are Your own advisor; You hear everything, God, and You do everything. You Yourself are the Giver, and You Yourself are the Enjoyer. What can this poor creature do? || 2 || Which of Your Glorious Virtues should I describe and speak of? Your value cannot be described. I live by beholding, beholding You, O God. Your glorious greatness is wonderful and amazing! || 3 || Granting His Grace, God my Lord and Master Himself saved my honor, and my intellect has been made perfect. Forever and ever, Nanak is a sacrifice, longing for the dust of the feet of the Saints. || 4 || 13 || 63 || 

Tuesday, 15th Jayt’h (Samvat 539 Nanakshahi)


----------



## luv4u (May 29, 2007)

This is the Hukumnama for Today. 

[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]*
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][May 30, 2007, Wednesday 04:30 AM. IST] [/FONT]  *[/FONT]

*sUhI CMq mhlw 4 ] *​*mwryihsu vy jn haumY ibiKAw ijin hir pRB imlx n idqIAw ] dyh kMcn vy vMnIAw iein haumY mwir ivguqIAw ] mohu mwieAw vy sB kwlKw iein mnmuiK mUiV sjuqIAw ] jn nwnk gurmuiK aubry gur sbdI haumY CutIAw ]1] vis Awixhu vy jn iesu mn kau mnu bwsy ijau inq BauidAw ] duiK rYix vy ivhwxIAw inq Awsw Aws kryidAw ] guru pwieAw vy sMq jno min Aws pUrI hir cauidAw ] jn nwnk pRB dyhu mqI Cif Awsw inq suiK sauidAw ]2] sw Dn Awsw iciq kry rwm rwijAw hir pRB syjVIAY AweI ] myrw Twkuru Agm dieAwlu hY rwm rwijAw kir ikrpw lyhu imlweI ] myrY min qin locw gurmuKy rwm rwijAw hir srDw syj ivCweI ] jn nwnk hir pRB BwxIAw rwm rwijAw imilAw shij suBweI ]3] iekqu syjY hir pRBo rwm rwijAw guru dsy hir mylyeI ] mY min qin pRym bYrwgu hY rwm rwijAw guru myly ikrpw kryeI ] hau gur ivthu Goil GumwieAw rwm rwijAw jIau siqgur AwgY dyeI ] guru quTw jIau rwm rwijAw jn nwnk hir mylyeI ]4]2]6]5]7]6]18] *

bu`Dvwr, 16 jyT (sMmq 539 nwnkSwhI) (AMg: 776) *

pMjwbI ivAwiKAw :**sUhI CMq mhlw 4 ] *​hy BweI! ijs haumY ny, ijs mwieAw ny jIv nUM kdy prmwqmw nwl imlx nhIN id`qw, ies haumY nUM, ies mwieAw nUM Awpxy AMdroN mwr mukwE[ hy BweI! vyKo! ieh srIr sony dy rMg vrgw sohxw huMdw hY, pr ij`Qy haumY Aw vVI, ies haumY ny aus srIr nUM mwr ky ^uAwr kr id`qw[ hy BweI! mwieAw dw moh inrI kwlK hY, pr Awpxy mn dy murId ies mUrK mnu`K ny Awpxy Awp nUM ies kwlK nwl hI joV r`iKAw hY[ hyy dws nwnk! AwK hy BweI! gurU dy snmuK rihx vwly mnu`K ies haUmy qoN bc jWdy hn, gurU dy Sbd dI brkiq nwl auhnW nUM haumY qoN KlwsI iml jWdI hY[1[ hy BweI! Awpxy ies mn nUM sdw Awpxy v`s ivc r`Ko[ mnu`K dw ieh mn sdw bwsy (iSkwrI pMCI) vWg Btkdw rihMdw hY[ sdw AwsW hI AwsW bxWidAW mnu`K dI swrI izMdgI dI rwq du`K ivc hI bIqdI hY[ hy sMq jno! ijs mnu`K nUM gurU iml ipAw, auh prmwqmw dw nwm jpx l`g pYNdw hY, qy nwm jpidAW aus dy mn ivc au~TI hir-nwm ismrn dI Aws pUrI ho jWdI hY[ hy dws nwnk! pRBU dy dr qy Ardws kirAw kr qy AwK- hy pRBU! mYnUM vI Awpxw nwm jpx dI sUJ b^S[ ijhVw mnu`K nwm jpdw hY, auh dunIAw vwlIAW AwsW C`f ky Awqmk AwnMd ivc lIn rihMdw hY[2[ hy BweI! gurU dI srn peI rihx vwlI jIv-iesqRI Awpxy ic`q ivc in`q pRBU-pqI dy imlwp dI Aws krdI rihMdI hY, qy AwKdI hY- hy pRBU pwiqSwh! hy hrI! hy pRBU! myry ihrdy dI sohxI syj au~qy Aw v`s! hy pRBU-pwiqSwh! qUM myrw mwlk hYN, qUM dieAw dw somw hYN, pr qUM myry leI AphuMc hYN, qUM Awp hI imhr kr ky mYnUM Awpxy crnW ivc imlw lY[ hy pRBU-pwiqSwh! gurU dI srn pY ky myry mn ivc, myry qn ivc qyry imlwp dI qWG pYdw ho cukI hY[ hy hrI! mYN srDw dI syj ivCw r`KI hY[ hy dws nwnk! AwK-hy pRBU pwiqSwh! hy hrI! ijhVI jIv-iesqRI qYnUM ipAwrI l`g jWdI hY, qUM aus nUM Awqmk Afolqw ivc itkI nUM pRym ivc itkI nUM iml pYdw hYN[3[ hy BweI! jIv-iesqRI dI ie`ko hI ihrdw-syj au~qy hrI pRBU v`sdw hY, ijs jIv-iesqRI nUM gurU d`s pWdw hY, aus nUM hrI nwl imlw dyNdw hY[ myry mn ivc myry ihrdy ivc pRBU dy imlwp leI iK`c hY, qWG hY pr ijs jIv iesqRI au~qy gurU imhr krdw hY, aus nUM pRBU nwl imlWdw hY[ hy BweI! mYN gurU qoN sdky kurbwn jWdw hW, mYN AwpxI ijMd gurU A`gy Byt Drdw hW[ hy dws nwnk! AwK- ijs au~qy gurU dieAwvwn huMdw hY, aus nUM hir-pRBU nwl imlw dyNdw hY[4[2[6[18[ 
[SIZE=-1]English Translation :[/SIZE] 
SOOHEE, CHHANT, FOURTH MEHL:​Eradicate the poison of egotism, O human being; it is holding you back from meeting your Lord God. This golden-colored body has been disfigured and ruined by egotism. Attachment to Maya is total darkness; this foolish, self-willed manmukh is attached to it. O servant Nanak, the Gurmukh is saved; through the Word of the Guru’s Shabad, he is released from egotism. || 1 || Overcome and subdue this mind; your mind wanders around continually, like a falcon. The mortal’s life-night passes painfully, in constant hope and desire. I have found the Guru, O humble Saints; my mind’s hopes are fulfilled, chanting the Lord’s Name. Please bless servant Nanak, O God, with such understanding, that abandoning false hopes, he may always sleep in peace. || 2 || The bride hopes in her mind, that her Sovereign Lord God will come to her bed. My Lord and Master is infinitely compassionate; O Sovereign Lord, be merciful, and merge me into Yourself. My mind and body long to behold the Guru’s face. O Sovereign Lord, I have spread out my bed of loving faith. O servant Nanak, when the bride pleases her Lord God, her Sovereign Lord meets her with natural ease. || 3 || My Lord God, my Sovereign Lord, is on the one bed. The Guru has shown me how to meet my Lord. My mind and body are filled with love and affection for my Sovereign Lord. In His Mercy, the Guru has united me with Him. I am a sacrifice to my Guru, O my Sovereign Lord; I surrender my soul to the True Guru. When the Guru is totally pleased, O servant Nanak, he unites the soul with the Lord, the Sovereign Lord. || 4 || 2 || 6 || 18 || 

Wednesday, 16th Jayt’h (Samvat 539 Nanakshahi) (Page: 776)


----------



## luv4u (May 29, 2007)

This is the Hukumnama for Today. 

[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]*
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][May 30, 2007, Wednesday 04:30 AM. IST] [/FONT]  *[/FONT]

*sUhI CMq mhlw 4 ] *​*mwryihsu vy jn haumY ibiKAw ijin hir pRB imlx n idqIAw ] dyh kMcn vy vMnIAw iein haumY mwir ivguqIAw ] mohu mwieAw vy sB kwlKw iein mnmuiK mUiV sjuqIAw ] jn nwnk gurmuiK aubry gur sbdI haumY CutIAw ]1] vis Awixhu vy jn iesu mn kau mnu bwsy ijau inq BauidAw ] duiK rYix vy ivhwxIAw inq Awsw Aws kryidAw ] guru pwieAw vy sMq jno min Aws pUrI hir cauidAw ] jn nwnk pRB dyhu mqI Cif Awsw inq suiK sauidAw ]2] sw Dn Awsw iciq kry rwm rwijAw hir pRB syjVIAY AweI ] myrw Twkuru Agm dieAwlu hY rwm rwijAw kir ikrpw lyhu imlweI ] myrY min qin locw gurmuKy rwm rwijAw hir srDw syj ivCweI ] jn nwnk hir pRB BwxIAw rwm rwijAw imilAw shij suBweI ]3] iekqu syjY hir pRBo rwm rwijAw guru dsy hir mylyeI ] mY min qin pRym bYrwgu hY rwm rwijAw guru myly ikrpw kryeI ] hau gur ivthu Goil GumwieAw rwm rwijAw jIau siqgur AwgY dyeI ] guru quTw jIau rwm rwijAw jn nwnk hir mylyeI ]4]2]6]5]7]6]18] *

bu`Dvwr, 16 jyT (sMmq 539 nwnkSwhI) (AMg: 776) *

pMjwbI ivAwiKAw :**sUhI CMq mhlw 4 ] *​hy BweI! ijs haumY ny, ijs mwieAw ny jIv nUM kdy prmwqmw nwl imlx nhIN id`qw, ies haumY nUM, ies mwieAw nUM Awpxy AMdroN mwr mukwE[ hy BweI! vyKo! ieh srIr sony dy rMg vrgw sohxw huMdw hY, pr ij`Qy haumY Aw vVI, ies haumY ny aus srIr nUM mwr ky ^uAwr kr id`qw[ hy BweI! mwieAw dw moh inrI kwlK hY, pr Awpxy mn dy murId ies mUrK mnu`K ny Awpxy Awp nUM ies kwlK nwl hI joV r`iKAw hY[ hyy dws nwnk! AwK hy BweI! gurU dy snmuK rihx vwly mnu`K ies haUmy qoN bc jWdy hn, gurU dy Sbd dI brkiq nwl auhnW nUM haumY qoN KlwsI iml jWdI hY[1[ hy BweI! Awpxy ies mn nUM sdw Awpxy v`s ivc r`Ko[ mnu`K dw ieh mn sdw bwsy (iSkwrI pMCI) vWg Btkdw rihMdw hY[ sdw AwsW hI AwsW bxWidAW mnu`K dI swrI izMdgI dI rwq du`K ivc hI bIqdI hY[ hy sMq jno! ijs mnu`K nUM gurU iml ipAw, auh prmwqmw dw nwm jpx l`g pYNdw hY, qy nwm jpidAW aus dy mn ivc au~TI hir-nwm ismrn dI Aws pUrI ho jWdI hY[ hy dws nwnk! pRBU dy dr qy Ardws kirAw kr qy AwK- hy pRBU! mYnUM vI Awpxw nwm jpx dI sUJ b^S[ ijhVw mnu`K nwm jpdw hY, auh dunIAw vwlIAW AwsW C`f ky Awqmk AwnMd ivc lIn rihMdw hY[2[ hy BweI! gurU dI srn peI rihx vwlI jIv-iesqRI Awpxy ic`q ivc in`q pRBU-pqI dy imlwp dI Aws krdI rihMdI hY, qy AwKdI hY- hy pRBU pwiqSwh! hy hrI! hy pRBU! myry ihrdy dI sohxI syj au~qy Aw v`s! hy pRBU-pwiqSwh! qUM myrw mwlk hYN, qUM dieAw dw somw hYN, pr qUM myry leI AphuMc hYN, qUM Awp hI imhr kr ky mYnUM Awpxy crnW ivc imlw lY[ hy pRBU-pwiqSwh! gurU dI srn pY ky myry mn ivc, myry qn ivc qyry imlwp dI qWG pYdw ho cukI hY[ hy hrI! mYN srDw dI syj ivCw r`KI hY[ hy dws nwnk! AwK-hy pRBU pwiqSwh! hy hrI! ijhVI jIv-iesqRI qYnUM ipAwrI l`g jWdI hY, qUM aus nUM Awqmk Afolqw ivc itkI nUM pRym ivc itkI nUM iml pYdw hYN[3[ hy BweI! jIv-iesqRI dI ie`ko hI ihrdw-syj au~qy hrI pRBU v`sdw hY, ijs jIv-iesqRI nUM gurU d`s pWdw hY, aus nUM hrI nwl imlw dyNdw hY[ myry mn ivc myry ihrdy ivc pRBU dy imlwp leI iK`c hY, qWG hY pr ijs jIv iesqRI au~qy gurU imhr krdw hY, aus nUM pRBU nwl imlWdw hY[ hy BweI! mYN gurU qoN sdky kurbwn jWdw hW, mYN AwpxI ijMd gurU A`gy Byt Drdw hW[ hy dws nwnk! AwK- ijs au~qy gurU dieAwvwn huMdw hY, aus nUM hir-pRBU nwl imlw dyNdw hY[4[2[6[18[ 
[SIZE=-1]English Translation :[/SIZE] 
SOOHEE, CHHANT, FOURTH MEHL:​Eradicate the poison of egotism, O human being; it is holding you back from meeting your Lord God. This golden-colored body has been disfigured and ruined by egotism. Attachment to Maya is total darkness; this foolish, self-willed manmukh is attached to it. O servant Nanak, the Gurmukh is saved; through the Word of the Guru’s Shabad, he is released from egotism. || 1 || Overcome and subdue this mind; your mind wanders around continually, like a falcon. The mortal’s life-night passes painfully, in constant hope and desire. I have found the Guru, O humble Saints; my mind’s hopes are fulfilled, chanting the Lord’s Name. Please bless servant Nanak, O God, with such understanding, that abandoning false hopes, he may always sleep in peace. || 2 || The bride hopes in her mind, that her Sovereign Lord God will come to her bed. My Lord and Master is infinitely compassionate; O Sovereign Lord, be merciful, and merge me into Yourself. My mind and body long to behold the Guru’s face. O Sovereign Lord, I have spread out my bed of loving faith. O servant Nanak, when the bride pleases her Lord God, her Sovereign Lord meets her with natural ease. || 3 || My Lord God, my Sovereign Lord, is on the one bed. The Guru has shown me how to meet my Lord. My mind and body are filled with love and affection for my Sovereign Lord. In His Mercy, the Guru has united me with Him. I am a sacrifice to my Guru, O my Sovereign Lord; I surrender my soul to the True Guru. When the Guru is totally pleased, O servant Nanak, he unites the soul with the Lord, the Sovereign Lord. || 4 || 2 || 6 || 18 || 

Wednesday, 16th Jayt’h (Samvat 539 Nanakshahi) (Page: 776)


----------



## simpy (May 30, 2007)

> I surrender my soul to the True Guru.



*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib ji*
*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji*


*gurbani gavo bhai*
*oh safal sadaa sukhdaaee.........*


*humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness*


----------



## luv4u (May 30, 2007)

It is Today's Hukamnama
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]*
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][May 31, 2007, Thursday 04:30 AM. IST] [/FONT]  *[/FONT]

*jYqsrI mhlw 4 ] *​*ijn hir ihrdY nwmu n bisE iqn mwq kIjY hir bWJw ] iqn suM\I dyh iPrih ibnu nwvY Eie Kip Kip muey krWJw ]1] myry mn jip rwm nwmu hir mwJw ] hir hir ik®pwil ik®pw pRiB DwrI guir igAwnu dIE mnu smJw ] rhwau ] hir kIriq kljuig pdu aUqmu hir pweIAY siqgur mwJw ] hau bilhwrI siqgur Apuny ijin gupqu nwmu prgwJw ]2] drsnu swD imilE vfBwgI siB iklibK gey gvwJw ] siqguru swhu pwieAw vf dwxw hir kIey bhu gux swJw ]3] ijn kau ik®pw krI jgjIvin hir auir DwirE mn mwJw ] Drm rwie dir kwgd Pwry jn nwnk lyKw smJw ]4]5] *

vIrvwr, 17 jyT (sMmq 539 nwnkSwhI) (AMg: 697) *

pMjwbI ivAwiKAw :**jYqsrI mhlw 4 ] *​hy BweI! ijMnW mnu`KW dy ihrdy ivc prmwqmw dw nwm nhIN v`sdw auhnW dI mW nMU hrI bWJ hI kr idAw kry qW cMgw hY, ikauNik auhnW dw srIr hir-nwm qoN suM\w rihMdw hY, auh nwm qoN vWjy hI qury iPrdy hn, Aqy, auh kRuJ kRuJ ky ^uAwr ho ho ky Awqmk mOq shyVdy rihMdy hn[1[ hy myry mn! aus prmwqmw dw nwm jipAw kr, jo qyry AMdr hI v`s irhw hY[ hy BweI! ikRpwl pRBU ny ijs mnu`K auqy ikrpw kIqI aus nMU gurU ny Awqmk jIvn dI sUJ b^SI aus dw mn nwm jpx dI kdr smJ igAw[ rhwau[ hy BweI! jgq ivc prmwqmw dI is&iq swlwh hI sB qoN au~cw drjw hY, pr prmwqmw gurU dy rwhIN hI imldw hY[ hy BweI! mYN Awpxy gurU qoN kurbwn jWdw hW, ijs ny myry AMdr hI gu`Jy v`sdy prmwqmw dw nwm prgt kr id`qw[2[ hy BweI! ijs mnu`K nMU v`fy BwgW nwl gurU dw drSn pRwpq huMdw hY, aus dy swry pwp dUr ho jWdy hn[ ijs nMU v`fw isAwxw qy Swh gurU iml ipAw, gurU ny prmwqmw dy bhuqy guxW nwl aus nMU sWJIvwl bxw id`qw [3[ hy BweI! jgq dy jIvn pRBU ny ijMnW mn`uKW auqy ikrpw kIqI, auhnW ny Awpxy mn ivc ihrdy ivc prmwqmw dw nwm itkw ilAw[ hy nwnk! (AwK- hy BweI) Drmrwj dy dr qy auhnW mnu`KW dy kIqy krmW dy lyKy dy swry kwZj pwV id`qy gey, auhnW dwsW dw lyKw in`bV igAw[4[5[ 
[SIZE=-1]English Translation :[/SIZE] 
JAITSREE, FOURTH MEHL:​The Lord’s Name does not abide within their hearts — their mothers should have been sterile. These bodies wander around, forlorn and abandoned, without the Name; their lives waste away, and they die, crying out in pain. || 1 || O my mind, chant the Name of the Lord, the Lord within you. The Merciful Lord God, Har, Har, has showered me with His Mercy; the Guru has imparted spiritual wisdom to me, and my mind has been instructed. || Pause || In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Kirtan of the Lord’s Praise brings the most noble and exalted status; the Lord is found through the True Guru. I am a sacrifice to my True Guru, who has revealed the Lord’s hidden Name to me. || 2 || By great good fortune, I obtained the Blessed Vision of the Darshan of the Holy; it removes all stains of sin. I have found the True Guru, the great, all-knowing King; He has shared with me the many Glorious Virtues of the Lord. || 3 || Those, unto whom the Lord, the Life of the world, has shown Mercy, enshrine Him within their hearts, and cherish Him in their minds. The Righteous Judge of Dharma, in the Court of the Lord, has torn up my papers; servant Nanak’s account has been settled. || 4 || 5 || 

Thursday, 17th Jayt’h (Samvat 539 Nanakshahi) (Page : 697)


----------



## jasbirm singh (May 31, 2007)

*Re: Daatai daat rakhi hath aapnai jis bhavai tis dehi*

Waheguru jeo

This is my first post. I wonder if any learned spirutually oriented gursikh can explain whether this pankti is related with Grace of waheguru 
Regards Jasbir
Mumbai


----------



## simpy (May 31, 2007)

> In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Kirtan of the Lord’s Praise brings the most noble and exalted status; the Lord is found through the True Guru. I am a sacrifice to my True Guru, who has revealed the Lord’s hidden Name to me.




*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji*
*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth sahib Ji*

*gurbani iss jug meh chanan.....*

*humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness*


----------



## simpy (May 31, 2007)

*Respected Jasbirm Sngh Ji,*

*BTY every "pankti" of Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is "related with Grace of waheguru"....................................*

*dhur ki bani aaee..............................................................*

*humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness*


----------



## pritpal_singh (May 31, 2007)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khlasa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

It Is Good To Find Out Elaborate Meanings Of 'naam' And 'shabad'. They Have Been Very Well Explained But I Request That You Just Don't Get Entangled In Meanings Because If You Look Closely All The Bhagats Sitting Inside The Guru Granth Sahib Are Totally Illiterate. Since They Were All Contemporaries, They Just Got Word That A Certain Word When Chanted Continously And With Concentration Has Helped Persons To Come Near God. This Made Them Curious And They Without Finding Out What The Word Meant, Started Practising It. And The Whole Process Clicked Very Well And They Broke The Shackles Of Birth And Death.

What I Mean To Say Is That Forget About What 'waheguru' Means And Just Start Enchanting It With Such Concentration That As Your Tongue Utters The Shabad, Your Ears Hear It And Gradually As The Shabad Flows Through The Ears To Your Mind, It Clears Your Mind Of The Uncountable Sins That Have Accumulated Inside It Through The Countless Births That We Have Gone Through.

This Is Spiritual Upliftment. Try It Out, The Feelings Associated With This Process Cannot Be Explained. It Is 'anand'.

It Is Not Easy By Any Means. Just Start Practising From Now Onwards.


----------



## spnadmin (May 31, 2007)

Pritpal_singh ji

Your comments are much appreciated. That many of the bhagats were illiterate only makes their verses ever more sublime. It was the genious of Satgur speaking through them, having chosen them to create so much beauty.

Sometime I am torn however between the intellectual commentary and the pure expression of spirituality. It is a great thing to learn so much about the "meanings" found in the banis. At the same time so much intellectual discourse pulls us away from the basic sprituality of the banis and raags, and away from their awesome beauty. Like you I think that all the abstract discourse subtracts from spirit. On the other hand we learn so much from the discussion.

Perhaps both are necessary to have a rich experience in this forum.


----------



## simpy (May 31, 2007)

*Respected aad0002 Ji,*

*both things are equally important-*

*gurbani gavo bhai......... page-628*
*bani beechareeay jeo............ page-80*

*and have been mentioned repeadely by Dhan Dhan Guru Sahibaan all over*

*And Vichaar can be done in any language, as long as we stay within Gurbani Guidelines ...................it is the respect and love for gurbani that counts.............. and aad0002 ji you are the best example for us. Language barrier is nothing if there is purity in mind, it takes care of all the hurdles by all means.*

*and we can listen/sing/contemplate Gurbani and that too at any time, at any place, with anybody,........*

*humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness*


----------



## spnadmin (May 31, 2007)

Once again I am in tears.


----------



## simpy (May 31, 2007)

*it proves*


----------



## luv4u (May 31, 2007)

It is today's Hukamnama.
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]*
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][June 1, 2007, Friday 04:30 AM. IST] [/FONT]  *[/FONT]

*DnwsrI mhlw 5 ] *​*jh jh pyKau qh hjUir dUir kqhu n jweI ] riv rihAw srbqR mY mn sdw iDAweI ]1] eIq aUq nhI bICuVY so sMgI gnIAY ] ibnis jwie jo inmK mih so Alp suKu BnIAY ] rhwau ] pRiqpwlY AipAwau dyie kCu aUn n hoeI ] swis swis sMmwlqw myrw pRBu soeI ]2] ACl ACyd Apwr pRB aUcw jw kw rUpu ] jip jip krih Anµdu jn Acrj AwnUpu ]3] sw miq dyhu dieAwl pRB ijqu qumih ArwDw ] nwnku mMgY dwnu pRB ryn pg swDw 4]3]27] *

Su`krvwr, 18 jyT (sMmq 539 nwnkSwhI) (AMg: 677) *

pMjwbI ivAwiKAw :**DnwsrI mhlw 5 ] *​hy BweI! mYN ij`Qy ij`Qy vyKdw hW au~Qy au~Qy hI prmwqmw hwzr-nwzr hY, auh iksy QW qoN BI dUr nhIN hY[ hy myry mn! qMU sdw aus pRBU nMU ismirAw kr, jyhVw sBnW ivc v`s irhw hY[1[ hy BweI! aus prmwqmw nMU hI Asl swQI smJxw cwhIdw hY, jyhVw swQoN ies lok ivc, prlok ivc ikqy BI v`Krw nhIN hMudw[ aus suK nMU hoCw suK AwKxw cwhIdw hY jyhVHw A`K Jmkx dy smyN ivc hI mu`k jWdw hY[rhwau[ hy BweI! myrw auh pRBU Bojn dy ky sB nMU pwldw hY, aus dI ikrpw nwl iksy cIz dI QuV nhIN rihMdI[ auh pRBU swfy hryk swh dy nwl nwl swfI sMBwl krdw rihMdw hY[2[ hy BweI! jyhVw pRBU CilAw nhIN jw skdw, nws nhIN kIqw jw skdw, ijs dI hsqI sB qoN au~cI hY, qy hYrwn krn vwlI hY, ijs dy brwbr dw hor koeI nhIN, aus dy Bgq aus dw nwm jp-jp ky Awqmk AwnMd mwxdy rihMdy hn[3[ hy dieAw dy Gr pRBU! mYnMU auh smJ b^S ijs dI brkiq nwl mYN qYnMU hI ismrdw rhW[hy pRBU! nwnk! qyry pwsoN qyry sMq jnW dy crnW dI DUV mMgdw hY[4[3[27[ 
[SIZE=-1]English Translation :[/SIZE] 
DHANAASAREE, FIFTH MEHL:​Wherever I look, there I see Him present; He is never far away. He is all-pervading, everywhere; O my mind, meditate on Him forever. || 1 || He alone is called your companion, who will not be separated from you, here or hereafter. That pleasure, which passes away in an instant, is trivial. || Pause || He cherishes us, and gives us sustenance; He does not lack anything. With each and every breath, my God takes care of His creatures. || 2 || God is undeceiveable, impenetrable and infinite; His form is lofty and exalted. Chanting and meditating on the embodiment of wonder and beauty, His humble servants are in bliss. || 3 || Bless me with such understanding, O Merciful Lord God, that I might remember You. Nanak begs God for the gift of the dust of the feet of the Saints. || 4 || 3 || 27 ||


----------



## simpy (Jun 1, 2007)

> Bless me with such understanding, O Merciful Lord God, that I might remember You. Nanak begs God for the gift of the dust of the feet of the Saints.


 


*Who is a Saint-the true one??????*


*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji tells us time and again about Saints- a lot.....*


*Respected Saadh Sangat Ji, have we ever thought that if Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says so many good things about a true saint, THEN WHAT A TRUE SAINT SHOULD BE SAYING ABOUT 'DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI'?????*

*should a true saint tells others to leave Bani and go after him because Bani says so or should he tell others to obey the Truth written in Gurbani IN IT'S TRUE SENSE *

*and the dust of the feet of the Saints- as much of it is available in Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji De Charan Kanwal, IS THERE ANY COMPARISON EXISTING????????????*

*just a thought from this neech*



*humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness*


----------



## luv4u (Jun 1, 2007)

It is Hukimnama Of the day

SHALOK, THIRD MEHL:​Consumed by desire, the world is burning and dying; burning and burning, it screams. But if it meets with the cooling and soothing True Guru, it does not burn any longer. O Nanak, without the Name, and without contemplating the Word of the Shabad, no one becomes fearless. || 1 || THIRD MEHL: Wearing ceremonial robes, the fire is not quenched, and the mind is filled with anxiety. Destroying the snake’s hole, the snake is not killed; it is just like doing deeds without a Guru. Serving the Giver, the True Guru, the Word of the Shabad comes to abide in the mind. The mind and body are cooled and soothed; peace ensues, and the fire of desire is quenched. The greatest comforts and lasting peace are obtained, when one eradicates selfishness from within. He alone becomes a detached Gurmukh, who lovingly focuses his awareness on the True Lord. Anxiety does not affect him at all; he is satisfied and satiated with the Name of the Lord. O Nanak, without the Naam, no one is saved; they are utterly ruined by egotism. || 2 || PAUREE: Those who meditate on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, obtain all peace and comforts. Fruitful is the entire life of those, who feel hunger for the Name of the Lord in their minds. Those who worship and adore the Lord through the Guru’s Word, forget all their pain and suffering. Those Gursikhs are good Saints, who care for nothing other than the Lord. Blessed, blessed is their Guru, whose mouth tastes the Ambrosial Fruit of the Lord. || 6 || 

Saturday, 19th Jayt’h (Samvat 539 Nanakshahi) (Page: 588)


----------



## luv4u (Jun 2, 2007)

*[June 3, 2007, Sunday 05:30 AM. IST] *
*DnwsrI mhlw 5 Gru 8 dupdy *
*<> siqgur pRswid ] *​*ismrau ismir ismir suK pwvau swis swis smwly ] ieh loik prloik sMig shweI jq kq moih rKvwly ]1] gur kw bcnu bsY jIA nwly ] jil nhI fUbY qskru nhI lyvY Bwih n swkY jwly ]1] rhwau ] inrDn kau Dnu AMDuly kau itk mwq dUDu jYsy bwly ] swgr mih boihQu pwieE hir nwnk krI ikRpw ikrpwly ]2]1]32] *

AYqvwr, 20 jyT (sMmq 539 nwnkSwhI)(AMg: 679) *

pMjwbI ivAwiKAw :**DnwsrI mhlw 5 Gru 8 dupdy *
*<> siqgur pRswid ] *​hy BweI! prmwqmw dy nwm nMU mYN Awpxy hryk swh dy nwl ihrdy ivc vsw ky ismrdw hW, qy, ismr ismr ky Awqmk AwnMd pRwpq krdw hW[ ieh hir-nwm ies lok ivc qy prlok ivc myry nwl mddgwr hY, hr QW myrw rwKw hY[1[ hy BweI! prmwqmw dI is&q swlwh nwl BrpUr gurU dw Sbd myrI ijMd dy nwl v`sdw hY[ prmwqmw dw nwm iek AYsw Dn hY, jyhVw pwxI ivc fu`bdw nhIN, ijs nMU cor curw nhIN skdw, ijs nMU A`g swV nhIN skdI[1[ rhwau [ hy BweI! prmwqmw dw nwm kMgwl vwsqy Dn hY, AMnHy vwsqy fMgorI hY, ijvyN b`cy vwsqy mW dw du`D hY, iqvyN hir-nwm mnu`K dI Awqmw vwsqy hY[ hy nwnk! ijs mnu`K auqy ikrpwl pRBU ny ikrpw kIqI, aus nMU ieh nwm iml igAw jo smuMdr ivc jhwz hY[2[1[32[ 
[SIZE=-1]English Translation :[/SIZE] 
DHANAASAREE, 5th GURU, 8th HOUSE, DU-PADAS:
ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU:​Remembering, remembering, remembering Him in meditation, I find peace; with each and every breath, I dwell upon Him. In this world, and in the world beyond, He is with me, as my help and support; wherever I go, He protects me. || 1 || The Guru’s Word abides with my soul. It does not sink in water; thieves cannot steal it, and fire cannot burn it. || 1 || Pause || It is like wealth to the poor, a cane for the blind, and mother’s milk for the infant. In the ocean of the world, I have found the boat of the Lord; the Merciful Lord has bestowed His Mercy upon Nanak. || 2 || 1 || 32 || 

Sunday, 20th Jayt’h (Samvat 539 Nanakshahi)(Page: 679


----------



## simpy (Jun 3, 2007)

> The Guru’s Word abides with my soul. It does not sink in water; thieves cannot steal it, and fire cannot burn it.[quote/]





> *Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji*
> 
> *Aisaa Guru Bare Bhagaa Naal Mildaa hai jis di bani andar tak asar kare*
> 
> ...


----------



## luv4u (Jun 3, 2007)

[SIZE=-1]It is the Hukumnama for today[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][/SIZE] 
[SIZE=-1]English Translation :[/SIZE] 
SOOHEE, 5th GURU: ​His Mansions are so comfortable, and His gates are so lofty. Within them, His beloved devotees dwell. || 1 || The Natural Speech of God is so very sweet. How rare is that person, who sees it with his eyes. || 1 || Pause || There, in the arena of the congregation, the divine music of the Naad, the sound current, is sung. There, the Saints celebrate with their Lord. || 2 || Neither birth nor death is there, neither pain nor pleasure. The Ambrosial Nectar of the True Name rains down there. || 3 || From the Guru, I have come to know the mystery of this speech. Nanak speaks the Bani of the Lord, Har, Har. || 4 || 6 || 12 || 

Monday, 21st Jayt’h (Samvat 539 Nanakshahi)


----------



## simpy (Jun 4, 2007)

> the mystery of this speech




Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Arjan Dev Ji is describing the marvelous state of mind(giving us a glimps of it)- SAHAJ AWASTHA-

how beautiful it can be when the mind is immune from the evil effects of M A Y A........


----------



## luv4u (Jun 4, 2007)

Hukumnama
*[June 5, 2007, Tuesday 04:30 AM. IST] *

[SIZE=-1]English Translation :[/SIZE] 
SHALOK, THIRD MEHL:​The red-robed bride is vicious; she forsakes God, and cultivates love for another man. She has neither modesty nor self-discipline; the self-willed manmukh constantly tells lies, and is ruined by the bad karma of evil deeds. She who has such pre-ordained destiny, obtains the True Guru has her Husband. She discards all her red dresses, and wears the ornaments of mercy and forgiveness around her neck. In this world and the next, she receives great honor, and the whole world worships her. She who is enjoyed by her Creator Lord stands out, and does not blend in with the crowd. O Nanak, the Gurmukh is the happy soul-bride forever; she has the Imperishable Lord God as her Husband. || 1 || FIRST MEHL: The red color is like a dream in the night; it is like a necklace without a string. The Gurmukhs take on the permanent color, contemplating the Lord God. O Nanak, with the supreme sublime essence of the Lord’s Love, all sins and evil deeds are turned to ashes. || 2 || PAUREE: He Himself created this world, and staged this wondrous play. Into the body of the five elements, He infused attachment, falsehood and self-conceit. The ignorant, self-willed manmukh comes and goes, wandering in reincarnation. He Himself teaches some to become Gurmukh, through the spiritual wisdom of the Lord. He blesses them with the treasure of devotional worship, and the wealth of the Lord’s Name. || 4 || 

Tuesday 22nd Jayt’h (Samvat 539 Nanakshahi) (Page: 786


----------



## simpy (Jun 5, 2007)

*Hukamnama(June 5, 2007) Panna# 786:*




*sloku m: 3 ]*

*sUhY vyis kwmix kulKxI jo pRB Coif pr purK Dry ipAwru ] Esu sIlu n sMjmu sdw JUTu bolY mnmuiK krm KuAwru ] ijsu pUrib hovY iliKAw iqsu siqguru imlY Bqwru ] sUhw vysu sBu auqwir Dry gil pihrY iKmw sIgwru ] pyeIAY swhurY bhu soBw pwey iqsu pUj kry sBu sYswru ] Eh rlweI iksY dI nw rlY ijsu rwvy isrjnhwru ] nwnk gurmuiK sdw suhwgxI ijsu AivnwsI purKu Brqwru ]1] m: 1 ] sUhw rMgu supnY insI ibnu qwgy gil hwru ] scw rMgu mjIT kw gurmuiK bRhm bIcwru ] nwnk pRym mhw rsI siB buirAweIAw Cwru ]2] pauVI ] iehu jgu Awip aupwieEnu kir coj ivfwnu ] pMc Dwqu ivic pweIAnu mohu JUTu gumwnu ] AwvY jwie BvweIAY mnmuKu AigAwnu ] ieknw Awip buJwieEnu gurmuiK hir igAwnu ] Bgiq Kjwnw bKisEnu hir nwmu inDwnu ]4] *​ 



*Gurmukhi Translation of Today's HukamNama:*

*pMjwbI ivAwiKAw :*




> *Bhai Sahib Bhai Sahib Singh Ji (GURUGRANTHDARPAN)*
> 
> 
> *(ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ) ਚੁਹਚੁਹੇ ਵੇਸ ਵਿਚ (ਮਸਤ ਜੀਵ-ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ, ਮਾਨੋ,) ਬਦਕਾਰ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ (ਖਸਮ) ਨੂੰ ਵਿਸਾਰ ਕੇ ਪਰਾਏ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨਾਲ ਪਿਆਰ ਕਰਦੀ ਹੈ; ਉਸ ਦਾ ਨਾਹ ਚੰਗਾ ਆਚਰਨ ਹੈ, ਨਾਹ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਵਾਲਾ ਜੀਵਨ ਹੈ, ਸਦਾ ਝੂਠ ਬੋਲਦੀ ਹੈ, ਆਪ-ਹੁਦਰੇ ਕੰਮਾਂ ਕਰਕੇ ਖ਼ੁਆਰ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ। ਜਿਸ ਦੇ ਮੱਥੇ ਤੇ ਧੁਰ ਦਰਗਾਹੋਂ ਭਾਗ ਹੋਣ, ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਰਾਖਾ ਮਿਲ ਪੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਫਿਰ ਉਹ ਚੁਹਚੁਹਾ ਵੇਸ ਸਾਰਾ ਲਾਹ ਦੇਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਸਹਿਣ-ਸ਼ੀਲਤਾ ਦਾ ਗਹਣਾ ਗਲ ਵਿਚ ਪਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ। ਇਸ ਲੋਕ ਤੇ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਵਿਚ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਬੜੀ ਇੱਜ਼ਤ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ, ਸਾਰਾ ਜਗਤ ਉਸ ਦਾ ਆਦਰ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਸਾਰੇ ਜਗ ਦਾ ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਖਸਮ ਮਿਲ ਜਾਏ, ਉਸ ਦਾ ਜੀਵਨ ਨਿਰਾਲਾ ਹੀ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ; ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਜਿਸ ਦੇ ਸਿਰ ਤੇ ਕਦੇ ਨਾਹ ਮਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਖਸਮ ਹੋਵੇ, ਜੋ ਸਦਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਹੁਕਮ ਵਿਚ ਤੁਰੇ ਉਹ ਜੀਵ-ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਹਾਗ ਭਾਗ ਵਾਲੀ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ।੧।**(ਮਾਇਆ ਦਾ) ਚੁਹਚੁਹਾ ਰੰਗ (ਮਾਨੋ) ਰਾਤ ਦਾ ਸੁਫ਼ਨਾ ਹੈ, (ਮਾਨੋ) ਧਾਗੇ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਹਾਰ ਗਲ ਵਿਚ ਪਾਇਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ; ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਸਨਮੁਖ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਰੱਬ ਦੀ ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਦੀਆਂ ਗੱਲਾਂ, (ਮਾਨੋ) ਮਜੀਠ ਦਾ ਪੱਕਾ ਰੰਗ ਹੈ।**ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਜੋ ਜੀਵ-ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ (ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ) ਪਿਆਰ ਦੇ ਮਹਾ ਰਸ ਵਿਚ ਭਿੱਜੀ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ ਉਸ ਦੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਭੈੜ (ਸੜ ਕੇ) ਸੁਆਹ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ।੨।**ਹੈਰਾਨ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਕੌਤਕ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਆਪ ਇਹ ਜਗਤ ਪੈਦਾ ਕੀਤਾ, ਇਸ ਵਿਚ ਪੰਜ ਤੱਤ ਪਾ ਦਿੱਤੇ ਜੋ ਮੋਹ ਝੂਠ ਤੇ ਗੁਮਾਨ (ਆਦਿਕ ਦਾ ਮੂਲ) ਹਨ। ਗਿਆਨ-ਹੀਨ ਆਪ-ਹੁਦਰਾ ਮਨੁੱਖ (ਇਹਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਫਸ ਕੇ) ਭਟਕਦਾ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਜੰਮਦਾ ਮਰਦਾ ਹੈ।**ਕਈ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਸਨਮੁਖ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਆਪਣਾ ਗਿਆਨ ਆਪ ਸਮਝਾਇਆ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਭਗਤੀ ਤੇ ਨਾਮ-ਰੂਪ ਖ਼ਜ਼ਾਨਾ ਹੈ।੪।*


 

*Guru Ji is teaching us again and again about this Maya(maya mamata mohini jin vin dantaa jag khayaa), He Himself created it. And He Himself blesses us with the Guru(His own Saroop) and shows us the true path...................*
*Dhan Dhan Guru Sahib Ji describes the conditions of both- Gyaanheen Manmukh as well as Gurmukh..............**ALL IS HIS BLESSING.....................*

*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji*
*Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.*



*and endless thanks to dear and respected luv4u ji for bringing us neechs in contact with the Daily HukamNama...........*

*humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness*


----------



## luv4u (Jun 6, 2007)

Manyog Surinder ji,
You may kindly post Hukumnama here. 
I shall post at some other place.

Regards.


----------



## simpy (Jun 6, 2007)

*Respected luv4u Ji,*

*we dont need it at two places, do we. *


*Thanks a lot once again for bringing in English Translations of Today's HukamNama from Siri Harimandir Sahib ji.*
*i read it and humbly posted Gurbani as well as the Gurmukhi Translations. many Sikhs read Hukamnama in Original Form, it is easier that way. I cannot thankyou enough for you making this effort for all of us.*

*endless thanks once again*



*humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness*


----------



## luv4u (Jun 6, 2007)

Yes

Resp. Surinder ji
Yes ,we do not need at two places.I get you. 
Thank you for adding The above 'yes' transported here. I just do not know as to how it flew off.



Thanks


----------



## spnadmin (Jun 7, 2007)

luv4u

I think Surinder was saying that the English, and 2 versions of Punjabi, translations of the hukam should all be in one place.

Is anyone going to post yesterday's hukamnama and today's hukamnama? Or did that stop for now?

Thanks for the hukamnamas already posted.


----------



## luv4u (Jun 7, 2007)

*R*espected  Aad ji,

*I* have posted today's Hukumnama in a new thread. Regarding posting it *R*oman /*T*ransliteration , I shall try to . But It may take a day or two. 

*Y*es, I want to clarify the *C*onstruction *O*f *H*ukumnama, It has three parts, the first begins with the Hukum from SGGS ji followed by the Gurmukhi Translation and again followed by English Translation. There are no 2 *H*ukumnamas in *P*unjabi. 

You may kindly look into the new thread.


----------



## spnadmin (Jun 7, 2007)

luv4u

You already are posting in Roman alphabet. The Georgia font is working just fine. Don't change anything.


----------



## roopk (Jun 9, 2007)

Respected aad ji,
I note that you have a keen interest in Hukumnama. Kindly let me know if you practice this on daily basis. I am asking iot that I do not do myself and many a times I do not look ito them for months time.Yes ,for last few days I refer to them as these are available here easily.


----------



## roopk (Jun 10, 2007)

hir hir nwmu iqnI AwrwiDAw ijn msqik Duir iliK pwie jIau ] (444-17, Awsw, mÚ 4)
They alone meditate on the Lord's Name, Har, Har, upon whose foreheads such destiny is written.
hir nwmu pdwrQu kiljuig aUqmu hir jpIAY siqgur Bwie jIau ]2] (444-17, Awsw, mÚ 4)
The wealth of the Lord's Name is the most exalted in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga; chant the Lord's Name according to the Way of the True Guru. ||2||
=================================================
*Question*
The above two lines are taken from ang. 444-17.The second line states that one should chant the name as per the way of true guru. The term 'true guru' has appeared in earlier pages and means the Lord Himself.Thus we are left to meant that the name should be chanted in a manner that is pleasing to HIM/ True Guru. 
What is that manner is nt explicitly stated in the vicinity of this line. Anyone havig the knowledge may like to offer opinion. What is the manner that should be classified and termed as pleasing to HIM.:advocate:


sy DMnu vfy sq purKw pUry ijn gurmiq nwmu iDAwieAw ] (445-5, Awsw, mÚ 4)
So very blessed and truly perfect are those, who through Guru's Instruction meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

============================================================
To the similar effect this line states that the name should be uttered as per guru's instructions. What would be its meaning?


----------



## spnadmin (Jun 10, 2007)

roopk ji

Hukamnama has been very important for spiritual reasons as well as just learning the language of the Guru.

The hukamnama was my very first introduction to Sikh prayer and it was and still is the main way for me to learn Gurmurki - hearing (on audio at Sikhnet), reading (Gurmurki, English transliteration, and English translation all together). and understanding (an English katha is given by Nihang Sucha Singh at the end).

Hukamnama has been very important in a lot of ways. Probably we are supposed to take hukam in the morning. I do it at night because from the beginning it seemed to have the effect of calming me down after work. The office is a crazy house. I have been doing this for almost two years-- banis came much later. Nihang ji also has an email address so you can ask questions -- but I try not to bother him. 

On the siknet site under the Hukamnama link you can also take a cyber Hukamnama which may sound ridiculous but you never know when you need a hint or some extra help from The Guru. 

for the cyber hukam go here 
Daily Hukamnama from Harimandir Sahib, the Golden Temple

to hear the hukam and English katha all you have to do is click on the link to the Audio translation

Thanks for asking


----------



## roopk (Jun 14, 2007)

Thanks aad ji for the link as above,it works fine. thanks once again.


----------



## harpreetsingh (Sep 9, 2007)

roopk said:


> hir hir nwmu iqnI AwrwiDAw ijn msqik Duir iliK pwie jIau ] (444-17, Awsw, mÚ 4)
> They alone meditate on the Lord's Name, Har, Har, upon whose foreheads such destiny is written.
> hir nwmu pdwrQu kiljuig aUqmu hir jpIAY siqgur Bwie jIau ]2] (444-17, Awsw, mÚ 4)
> The wealth of the Lord's Name is the most exalted in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga; chant the Lord's Name according to the Way of the True Guru. ||2||
> ...


 
***********************
I think the question has remained unanswered. One may kindly go thru. the post as above and try to answer as to ' how to meditate. I have no answer for this.

Harpreet


----------



## harpreetsingh (Sep 25, 2007)

Dear friends,
1.
The above question has remained unanswered for quite sometime.It is requested that anyone who has fair idea of the above may kindly enlighten us.

2.
Besides the following lines are also interlinked with Naam.

'Meeting the Almighty True Guru; the God was revealed to me;I sing His glorious praises and reflect upon His glories"

[Ang 607-5,Sorath]

In the above ,as per my understanding' the term  Guru is referred to as some agency that is external to 'sabad Guru' i.e Guru Granth Sahib ji. In the light of above who is our Guru and what is the difference beteween tru guru,perfect Guru' and the primal.It is becoming confusing to me.Kindly help.

Regards.
bhul chuk mauf


----------



## Archived_member2 (Sep 25, 2007)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

The question raised is "To the similar effect this line states that the name should be uttered as per guru's instructions. What would be its meaning?"
Truth does not have a meaning. Truth is as it is.

In a TV Interview in Los Angeles the moderator asked me the question "what is the difference between Gur and Satgur?"
I am surprised reading long articles and discussions about this. The answer can be as simple and short as Gurdev's Vaak.

Gurdev clearly says "gur satgur kaa jo sikh akhaa-ay so bhalkay uth har naam Dhi-aavai." SGGS 305.
The true Sikh is one who has learned it. Strange, many call them a Sikh without learning true Simran.
Gur is the technique. Yet the Gur does not help much till it becomes Satgur (True Gur), the true experience.
This is the reason Gurdev is singing that He calls him the Sikh for whom Gur has become the true, the Satgur.
Can your preachers transfer the Gur to human beings making it their true experience and transfer them, becoming true Sikhs? 

Let it be another present to the true seekers of the Sikh world.


Balbir Singh


----------



## japjisahib04 (Sep 25, 2007)

harpreetsingh said:


> ***********************
> I think the question has remained unanswered. One may kindly go thru. the post as above and try to answer as to ' how to meditate. I have no answer for this.Harpreet


 
*Guru Nanak advises his devotees in the beginning as a training to awake in the ambrosial hours of the morning (Amrit-Vela), meditate on Ek-Ong-kar- God, sing His praises and contemplate on His greatness which will develop love for Him. Guru Nanak says He will hear the sincere prayer and would come down even to the simplest hut. There is no doubt that when we do seva and sing keertan at the Gurudwara, we do it sincerely and with faith. But I will tell you, my friends, there is always a hint of humai (ego) hidden in our actions as we think we are giving Him something. When we do good keertan, we wait for someone to say, “Wah, Wah.” But at the time that our overwhelming-ras-filled Guru calls “Amrit Vela”, there is no one there except Guru. Only Guru, pyareo, Guru (God). Then we please the Guru and the Guru only. The Guru loves us then. The Guru then has the chance to splash us with the Guru’s overflowing maddening prem, love, ras and jyot. The more this love is splashed on us, the more we are composed and reach near Him. The time that our loving Guru calls “Amrit Vela” is the beginning of sikhi. It is the time of enlightenment. It is the beginning of our path to the guru’s warm and sukh-sagar bosom. So He says let your intellect think of His greatness and His glorious virtues to fill the vacuum of His presence within. So it is singing of glorious virtues of God, which Guru Nanak has made as base to return back in gift and not the quantity. He says meditating on Him in this hour is a real gift in return. He hears the sincere prayer of the ant first than the elephant. To clear and specify the amrit velya Faridji illustrate, 'PrIdw rwiq kQUrI vMfIaY suiqaw imlY n BwAu ]Farid, musk is distributed at night. They, who are asleep get not a share.Only then it will be liked by God, 'qw sohwgix jwxIAY gur sbdu bIcwry ] Then she is known as the happy soul-bride, if she contemplates and reflects the Word of the Guru's Shabad in his life or in other word marry surat with sabd..SGGS 334.1.*

*Once the training period is over, then what ever time we pray it is amrit vela.*
*Regards sahni mohinder*


----------



## Sikh80 (Oct 17, 2007)

In addition to that have been stated above one should also take following things into account 

hau siqguru syvI Awpxw iek min iek iciq Bwie ] (26-4, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
I serve my True Guru with single-minded devotion, and lovingly focus my consciousness on Him.
and 
ijn qUM syivAw Bwau kir syeI purK sujwn ] (52-5, isrIrwgu, mÚ 5) 
Those who have served You with love are truly wise.
One can always refer to the Bani that states the basic qualities that one should have to understand the basics od as to how to become a person with purity of mind.One should also overcome the ego as well.

duie kr joiV KVI qkY scu khY Ardwis ] (54-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1) 
With her palms pressed together, she stands, waiting on Him, and offers her True prayers to Him.

One can enlist other as well,if required.


----------



## Sikh80 (Nov 5, 2007)

Could anyone kindly explain the meaning of the following line and also explain thefive virtues of reflective meditation that is being discussed here.

inrml jil n@wey jw pRB Bwey pMc imly vIcwry ] (437-1, Awsw, mÚ 1)
One bathes in the water of purity when it is pleasing to God, and obtains the five virtues by reflective meditation.
=================================
Shall be grateful for help and guidance


----------



## spnadmin (Nov 5, 2007)

seeker07 ji

One obtains mukhti through Sat (truthful living, fairness, objectivity) Daya (compassion, the ability to take the suffering of others seriously, to relieve pain) Santokh (contentment, or freedom from envy and jealousy, greed and ambition) Nmrata (humility and benevolence toward others) and Pyare (moved, inspired by the love of God).

I suspect you have another question coming up shortly seeking a more sophisticated response. But that is the direct answer to your question. One should probably not interpret the image of bathing in the waters of purity literally.  

(We did discuss the idea of bathing the water of purity some time ago on SPN)

And BTW - your quotation made me very happy. I could read the entire line, without the English, in the Roman transliteration alphabet. Have been working so hard at this. So thanks.


----------



## Sikh80 (Nov 5, 2007)

aad0002 said:


> seeker07 ji
> 
> One obtains mukhti through Sat (truthful living, fairness, objectivity) Daya (compassion, the ability to take the suffering of others seriously, to relieve pain) Santokh (contentment, or freedom from envy and jealousy, greed and ambition) Nmrata (humility and benevolence toward others) and Pyare (moved, inspired by the love of God).
> 
> ...


 
It is very kind of you aadji that you remember many things. Yes, I do congratulate you for a fine memory. A fine person should always have a refined memory. Yes, you should be working very hard. Thanks are accepted for onward transmission.

Regards !


----------



## Archived_member2 (Nov 5, 2007)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Seeker07 Jee!

Thanks for the wonderful reference from Gurdev explaining the experience Prabhu Jee showing love to Guru Jee.

Gurdev is singing.

inrml jil n@wey jw pRB Bwey pMc imly vIcwry ] (437-1, Awsw, mÚ 1)

With soft Jal bathes when liked by Prabhu. Five meet, contemplating.

This experience is only possible through true Naam Simran, not by analyzing true Guru's words.


Balbir Singh


----------



## Sikh80 (Nov 5, 2007)

Balbir Singh said:


> Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
> Dear all and Seeker07 Jee!
> 
> Thanks for the wonderful reference from Gurdev explaining the experience Prabhu Jee showing love to Guru Jee.
> ...


 
gurU (iek) smuMdr hY, gurU rqnW dI Kwx hY, aus ivc (suc`jI jIvn-is`iKAw dy), AnykW rqn hn [ (hy shylIey! aus ivc) pMjy igAwn-ieMidRAW mn qy bu`DI smyq ieSnwn kr, qyrw mn pivqR ho jwiegw [

jIv (gur-Sbd rUp) pivqR jl ivc qdoN hI ieSnwn kr skdw hY jdoN pRBU ƒ cMgw l`gdw hY, (gurU dy Sbd dI) ivcwr dI brkiq nwl ies ƒ (sq, sMqoK, dieAw, Drm qy DIrj) pMjyhI pRwpq ho jWdy hn, Aqy kwm k®oD Kot (mwieAw dw moh Awidk) iqAwg ky jIv sdw-iQr pRBU-nwm ƒ Awpxy ihrdy ivc vsw lYNdw hY [
=========================================
Respected Balbir ji,
I am giving below the translation as is given in Dr. Sahib Singh ji's Teeka. I had to refer to it on account of the cue given by you that it is not for us to understand the meaning. But we all do try. Hope the above translation will be of help. In terms of english the qualities would be as follows:
1.Truth
2.Contentment
3. Compassion@
4.Righteousness
5. Patience
==
@ I am not sure if 'daya' would get translated to compassion or 'kindness' and /or something more or less the same.[on account of other's sufferings]


The post of aad ji refers to almost the same:
One obtains mukhti through Sat (truthful living, fairness, objectivity) Daya (compassion, the ability to take the suffering of others seriously, to relieve pain) Santokh (contentment, or freedom from envy and jealousy, greed and ambition) Nmrata (humility and benevolence toward others) and Pyare (moved, inspired by the love of God).
translation/


Thx and rgds


----------



## spnadmin (Nov 6, 2007)

seeker07 ji

Actually, you have a good point to make about "daya" because when you think about it -- empathy is probably a better way to understand it. Empathy includes compassion, the ability to understand another's pain, and the motivation to do something to make things right, if even in small ways.

Balbir ji, I also agree with your statement 

* This experience is only possible through true Naam Simran, not by analyzing true Guru's words.

*In order to have a sensible conversation, we have to agree on the meanings of words. This is obvious. However, in trying to understand in a deeper sense, analysis is an obstacle. And meditation and simran make meanings clear at a deeper level.

My opinion only.


----------



## Astroboy (Nov 6, 2007)

This is the full shabad:

AASAA, FIRST MEHL: 
The unstruck melody of the sound current resounds with the vibrations of the
celestial instruments. My mind, my mind is imbued with the Love of my Darling Beloved. Night and day, my detached mind
remains absorbed in the Lord, and I obtain my home in the profound trance of the celestial void. The True Guru has revealed
to me the Primal Lord, the Infinite, my Beloved, the Unseen. The Lord.s posture and His seat are permanent; my mind is
absorbed in reflective contemplation upon Him. O Nanak, the detached ones are imbued with His Name, the unstruck melody,
and the celestial vibrations. || 1 || Tell me, how can I reach that unreachable, that unreachable city? By practicing
truthfulness and self-restraint, by contemplating His Glorious Virtues, and living the Word of the Guru.s Shabad. Practicing the
True Word of the Shabad, one comes to the home of his own inner being, and obtains the treasure of virtue. He has no stems,
roots, leaves or branches, but He is the Supreme Lord over the heads of all. Practicing intensive meditation, chanting and selfdiscipline,
people have grown weary; stubbornly practicing these rituals, they still have not found Him. O Nanak, through​spiritual wisdom, the Lord, the Life of the world, is met; the True Guru imparts this understanding. || 2 ||
The Guru is the ocean, the mountain of jewels, overflowing with jewels. Take your bath in the seven seas, O my mind, and
become pure. *One bathes in the water of purity when it is pleasing to God, and obtains the five virtues by reflective*
*meditation.* Renouncing sexual desire, anger, deceit and corruption, he enshrines the True Name in his heart. When the waves
of ego, greed and avarice subside, he finds the Lord Master, Merciful to the meek. O Nanak, there is no place of pilgrimage
comparable to the Guru; the True Guru is the Lord of the world. || 3 || I have searched the jungles and forests, and looked
upon all the fields. You created the three worlds, the entire universe, everything. You created everything; You alone are
permanent. Nothing is equal to You. You are the Giver . all are Your beggars; without You, who should we praise? You
bestow Your gifts, even when we do not ask for them, O Great Giver; devotion to You is a treasure over-flowing. Without the​Lord.s Name, there is no liberation; so says Nanak, the meek. || 4 || 2 ||


----------



## Sikh80 (Nov 6, 2007)

I shall have a re-look after 2/3 days with fresh mind. it is getting fairly complicated.
There seems to be difference of opinion amongst the english translators as well. It is the prerogative of the translators that they are quoting that they have to and we are ,probably, getting involved for no big reason. I can count of five other virtues that is controlling five passions and be in the opposite state of affairs i.e without kaam, krodh , lobh, moh and ahankar. Some one may prioritise another five that suits one. There cannot be any five standard for this. It is the way I presume now.

Thanks and regards respected Begum ji.


----------



## Sikh80 (Nov 30, 2007)

Understanding Gurbani
May kindly go thru. the following lines. I shall be grateful if sangat put across opinion regarding :
1] the contextual meaning of lines numbered 5,6, and 7
2]What is the 'cave ' refrerred to in line no.5.
3] It is stated the God is stating the converstaion with devotees in the cave. Is it the cave of mind or in body?

Anyone can clarify?
Thanks  and Regards

kIrqnu inrmolk hIrw ] (893-19, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
1.The Kirtan of the Lord's Praise is a priceless diamond.
 Awnµd guxI ghIrw ] (893-19, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
2.It is the ocean of bliss and virtue.
 Anhd bwxI pUMjI ] (893-19, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
3.In the Word of the Guru's Bani is the wealth of the unstruck sound current.
 sMqn hiQ rwKI kUMjI]2] (893-19, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
4.The Saints hold the key to it in their hands. ||2||
pMnw 894
 suMn smwiD guPw qh Awsnu ] (894-1, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
5.They sit there, in the cave of deep Samaadhi;
 kyvl bRhm pUrn qh bwsnu ] (894-1, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
6.the unique, perfect Lord God dwells there.
 Bgq sMig pRBu gosit krq ] (894-1, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
7.God holds conversations with His devotees.


----------



## Astroboy (Nov 30, 2007)

In the Gita, Lord Krishna says that Great Ones traverse into the cave starting from a place above the nose.
..................................

Yogis tried to control breathing through Kumbhak to achieve concentration of attention. It is a difficult process and everyone cannot practice it. Saints, therefore, do not interfere with the breathing function. They concentrate Their attention at the seat of the soul, behind and in the center of the two eyes, by means of Simran with the tongue of thought. If it is done with rapt attention, the soul will cease to flow out through the body pores. The body will then become senseless. It is only then after that the concentrated soul gets the contact of God.

.....................................................

More Later.


----------

