# Harleen Kaur Nottay: Britain's Next Top Model?



## Admin (Jul 15, 2010)

_Harleen Kaur Nottay admits she has had an “internal struggle” balancing her cultural beliefs with the modelling competition. _
Interview: http://video.stv.tv/?bcpid=37654293001&bctid=111702110001

Britain’s Next Top Model contestant Harleen admits her journey into the final 14 was plagued with difficulty as worries about a cultural backlash filled her mind.

The 19-year-old hit a stumbling block in episode two after the contestants were tasked with striking a provocative pose for an underwear photo shoot alongside a male model.

Speaking on The Hour, Harleen said: “They said that I could wear the komodo over the underwear so I felt a little bit more comfortable but then the photographer asked me to take it off…the photographer wasn’t aware of how I was feeling.

“The designer was there and you could tell by her face that she was thinking ‘oh no’ and that is how I was feeling inside.”

She added: “For our culture, it is quite unusual. You don’t really see Asian models out there in general.

“I am having an internal struggle with with what I have done, with my culture and what my family is going to think and what my boyfriend is going to think and everything, I found it very difficult.”

Despite these worries, Harleen is determined to stay professional and push her concerns to one side, grabbing hold of her once in a lifetime opportunity.

“There is always a dream you have, for me it was modelling, it was something I have always wanted to pursue.



“At the end of the day, I thought ‘I am here, I am doing a job and I have just got to get on with it and set my feelings aside’.”

Aside from the tasks, Harleen was delighted with the input the girls received from supermodel and host of the show Elle Macpherson.

“She is so genuine and so lovely,” she said. “She does care about the individual, she was just lovely.

“Close up, she is just amazing, you think, you hope, you pray that she is not for your own self-esteem but she is just flawless!”


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## Admin (Jul 15, 2010)

Harleen Kaur Nottay: Britain's Next Top Model?
by STEVE HENDRY

They were hand-picked by Elle Macpherson for the final of Britain's Next Top Model but Harleen Kaur Nottay and Jennifer Smith are not your typical catwalk hopefuls.

Stunning teenager Harleen is bracing herself for a backlash from parts of her community, while Jennifer admits she struggles to see herself as a beauty.

Harleen, 19, from Midlothian, and Jennifer, 21, from Dunfermline, beat off fierce competition from thousands of girls to make it on to the show, which starts tomorrow night.

The two Scots are in the last 25, competing for a life-changing prize - a contract with the prestigious Models 1 agency, a cover spread with Company magazine and a campaign with cosmetic giant Revlon.

Student Harleen, studying business management and entrepreneurship at Napier University in Edinburgh, says she wants to let all Sikh, Indian and Asian girls know they should follow their dreams. But she also thinks some of the older generation may disapprove of her stance.

Harleen said: "At the end of the day, I'm not bothered by what they say. I just want my parents to be happy. They know what I've done, what I'm involved with, that's the main thing for me. My mum has supported me a million per cent and that's all that matters."

Jennifer, who started modelling for a local hairdressing salon, said: "I've done quite a few pictures now and I still find it hard to look at them and think, 'gosh, I'm pretty'.

"I find it hard to think of myself in that way. I don't look at it like that at all. Everything else I do is creative. I paint, I draw and I try to approach modelling in the same kind of way. I think I'm able to bring that sort of creative process to making a nice photograph and so far it seems to have worked."

Much of Britain's Next Top Model has already been filmed, but both girls are sworn to secrecy on whether they have made it out of "boot camp" and beyond. The winner will be decided for the first time by public telephone vote in a live 90-minute catwalk finale in October.

Both girls however, have been thrilled by the experience of meeting the show's stunning host, El le Macpherson.

Jennifer said: "She is such an iconic woman, one of the real supermodels. To have her hosting the show and for her to hand-pick all the girls and say, 'yes, you are good enough to do it,' it's really quite an honour. You see all these images of beautiful models who look fantastic but to see Elle in the flesh and for her to look just as good, I mean absolutely stunning, was something else."

Harleen added: "She is so breathtakingly beautiful. I was intimidated by her presence because of who she is, but she is such an inspiration, such a nice person and so kind.

"She is the perfect example of someone who is really successful but has managed to keep themselves grounded and not let it go to their heads."

Boot camp sees the final 25 girls being whittled down to 14 - and inevitably there were a few personality clashes. Harleen, who, l ike Jennifer, was selected after a series of auditions and a lengthy interview process, had a brush with one of her onscreen rivals, Kadian.

Harleen said: "I made friends with other girls but I did get into an argument at boot camp. These things happen with 25 girls in the one place. Personalities clash.

"I was angry because I was in an argument. Then I backed away from the confrontation but she just wasn't having it. I'm not the confrontational type and she was upsetting me. I just wanted my own space and she wasn't g iving me it, but I was f ine afterwards. For the remainder of my time on the show, we just didn't speak."

As well as the other girls, the models had to face a tough judging panel which included top designer Julien Macdonald, former model Charley Speed and stylist Grace Woodward.

Jennifer, who started modelling for a local hairdresser when she was 17, said: "What you saw is pretty much what you get.

"They tried to keep up their camera persona in front of us, which was quite amusing in some ways.

"Julien Macdonald is quite honest, shall we say. He's close to the bone with some of his comments. He is a good guy but you need to have a Simon Cowell-like judge.

"The industry itself is full of harsh criticism. It is a tough job in that sense. There are always going to be people who like what you do and there are always going to be people who don't like what you do.

"No matter what feedback you think you are going to get, to go in and stand in front of that panel is always a nerve-wracking experience. It really gets you in the gut.

"The comments can be quite harsh but you cannot take it to heart. You can't let things like that get you down. If you took every comment which came your way too personally, you would never get anywhere. You have to brush it off, stand up and get on with it."

Both girls will be glued to the TV screens waiting to see the first episode of the show and, while they can't reveal how far they progress, both are serious about pursuing model l ing as a career.

Harleen said: "Filming wasn't what I expected. It was pretty intense, a lot more so than I had anticipated but I thoroughly enjoyed it. It's definitely something I want to pursue, but I'm not naive enough to think I'm just going to shoot off to London and become a model. I definitely want to have a degree behind me. I am going to try to pursue modelling while I am at university and just see where it takes me."

Jennifer, who dropped out of a biology degree at Stirling University after her first year, said: "Since filming finished, I've worked really hard to put together a diverse portfolio. I think it's something I'm good at. I have to give it a go while I'm young and I've still got good skin and the body to do it. Ten years down the line, I don't want to think 'what if I'd followed that through?' "Just now I'm just excited and nervous about the start of the show on TV.

"I think all the girls are. It'll either be really good or I'll be hiding under a rock for the next month."

_[Courtesy: The Daily Record]_

July 5, 2010


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## spnadmin (Jul 15, 2010)

I think Aman ji this article is a platform for discussion of many themes we have visited on may threads about being a Sikh. It will be interesting to see what happens. I would love to play the devils advocate and ask 25 sticky questions. But maybe now the thing to do is wait and see.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jul 15, 2010)

I have all sorts of opinions on this, but I think I'll sit back and see what some of our younger members have to say.  I'm really interested in their responses on this one.

The ball is now in their court!


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## amrit.saggu (Jul 16, 2010)

Meh...well it's obvious that there will be a backlash from either her surrounding society or perhaps at a larger scale, regardless I don't think it matters. Society will always judge, discriminate, and be hateful. Personally, I think the world has the right to do as they please with their life regardless of their background, everyone is an individual with a will. As long as nobody is being hurt, a Sikh need not interfere in the business of another. We already have so much self-contemplation to be working on 
forgive any mistakes..Wjkk Wjkf
amrit


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## kds1980 (Jul 16, 2010)

What backlash? In India there are sikh actresses and models.Neha Dhupia a sikh actress is very famous for her bold scenes.Katrina kaif which is also from U.K is now number one actress of India.Has anybody ever seen sikhs protesting against Neha  or other sikh actresses .Has anybody ever heard that fatwa is issued against any muslim actress .As long as they keep religion out of their profession no one is going to say anything.All she is trying to do is to secure more publicity and votes by playing victim card and show britain  that how much oppressed culture she is from .She is a big Drama queen.She says that
You don't see Asian models in general so How india whose fashion industry is managing?Models from all religion walk on ramp in India despite very conservative society

What is sad is that liberal sikh sites like sikhschic are publishing article on her portraying her as some role model for youngsters which clearly means that more young sikhs will prefer to cut their hair and choose the profession which they like to go


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## badshah (Jul 16, 2010)

Well - if she is having internal issues it just goes to show how strong the Indian culture is.

Its one of those things that if she become a big name then every one will eventually love her, if she fails then she will get spat on not for failing but for taking her clothes off etc etc

At the end of the day, money talks, so if she can pull it off then he the money will speak!

Any way, I say good luck to her..... we already have Sunny Leone to look at naked... yummy!  Lol!

Links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunny_Leone
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/business-and-lifestyle/19717-sikh-model-in-kenneth-cole-ad.html


Money talks, ******** walks........... winkingmunda


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## badshah (Jul 16, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> What backlash? In India there are sikh actresses and models.Neha Dhupia a sikh actress is very famous for her bold scenes.Katrina kaif which is also from U.K is now number one actress of India.Has anybody ever seen sikhs protesting against Neha or other sikh actresses .Has anybody ever heard that fatwa is issued against any muslim actress .As long as they keep religion out of their profession no one is going to say anything.All she is trying to do is to secure more publicity and votes by playing victim card and show britain that how much oppressed culture she is from .She is a big Drama queen.She says that
> You don't see Asian models in general so How india whose fashion industry is managing?Models from all religion walk on ramp in India despite very conservative society
> 
> What is sad is that liberal sikh sites like sikhschic are publishing article on her portraying her as some role model for youngsters which clearly means that more young sikhs will prefer to cut their hair and choose the profession which they like to go


 
Show me one Sikh woman and one Sikh man that can be a role model for young Sikhs, thanks!  Actually show me two of each, one from the West and one from the East........


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## kds1980 (Jul 16, 2010)

badshah said:


> Show me one Sikh woman and one Sikh man that can be a role model for young Sikhs, thanks!  Actually show me two of each, one from the West and one from the East........



Please tell me what kind of role models you are asking for? Worldly success,monetory success? Political success?.Sikhism was never a religion that give much importance to these.All these things were available to 18th ,19th century sikhs Yet many choose death over success


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## badshah (Jul 16, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> Please tell me what kind of role models you are asking for? Worldly success,monetory success? Political success?.Sikhism was never a religion that give much importance to these.All these things were available to 18th ,19th century sikhs Yet many choose death over success


 
No, no nooooooooooo..... you said people will look at her and then chop their hair off...... well you know I hardly see many Sikh with long hair...... so that why I am asking you to give a few names of Sikh that you think will appeal to the youth..... thanks - its your pick of people, you choose!


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## kds1980 (Jul 16, 2010)

badshah said:


> No, no nooooooooooo..... you said people will look at her and then chop their hair off...... well you know I hardly see many Sikh with long hair...... so that why I am asking you to give a few names of Sikh that you think will appeal to the youth..... thanks - its your pick of people, you choose!



You are misinterpretting my post.What I mean is that she has chosen an industry where there is no scope of keeping uncut hair.If she is portrayed as sikh model then don't you think Youths will ask That if Harleen could be sikh
role model without uncut hair then why should we keep our hairs?


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## amrit.saggu (Jul 16, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> What backlash? In India there are sikh actresses and models.Neha Dhupia a sikh actress is very famous for her bold scenes.Katrina kaif which is also from U.K is now number one actress of India.Has anybody ever seen sikhs protesting against Neha  or other sikh actresses .Has anybody ever heard that fatwa is issued against any muslim actress .As long as they keep religion out of their profession no one is going to say anything.All she is trying to do is to secure more publicity and votes by playing victim card and show britain  that how much oppressed culture she is from .She is a big Drama queen.She says that
> You don't see Asian models in general so How india whose fashion industry is managing?Models from all religion walk on ramp in India despite very conservative society
> 
> What is sad is that liberal sikh sites like sikhschic are publishing article on her portraying her as some role model for youngsters which clearly means that more young sikhs will prefer to cut their hair and choose the profession which they like to go




I agree she's probably just using this as a publicity thing..however you can't deny that at some level she must be feeling a fear of backlash. I mean, I'm a kesdhari Sikh, I follow GGSJ and I feel a backlash from my society just because I want to live according to GGSJ alone...without external maryadas...jeez..the problem is the "Sikh community" as a whole does not reflect Sikh values...simple and plain....


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## badshah (Jul 16, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> You are misinterpretting my post.What I mean is that she has chosen an industry where there is no scope of keeping uncut hair.If she is portrayed as sikh model then don't you think Youths will ask That if Harleen could be sikh
> role model without uncut hair then why should we keep our hairs?


 
Lol - this is life!

SHe chose the career and good luck to her.... 

About the uncut hair business...... I dont really know of or seen many Sikh girls that have uncut hair in the UK.....

You are letting your foundations crumble because of one woman? Put it this way, forget the hair side of things, she openly talked about her boyfriend.... and they obviously have sex, lol..... so according to you that would mean all girls now having careless sex?

Well it is the UK, and boyfriends, girlsfriends, sex etc etc is a part of this world, however if you chose the full Sikh way of life then you will not be doing these things. It all boils down to liberal Sikhs, moderate SIkh and strict Sikhs..... the world is full of such diverse people that its impossible to have an ideal. Even if you have an ideal situation.... it may look ideal on the outside but since we are all humans many of us have our darker sides that not everyone can control.

Anyway - its pointless looking at what right or wrong other people are doing and just be a good enough role model yourself to get your own family through life first then I suppose you can worry about ather things... otherwise you will probably just watch people get ahead in life while you sit there crying about others - try being selfish for your success and make your own dreams come true


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## spnadmin (Jul 16, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> What backlash? In India there are sikh actresses and models.Neha Dhupia a sikh actress is very famous for her bold scenes.Katrina kaif which is also from U.K is now number one actress of India.Has anybody ever seen sikhs protesting against Neha  or other sikh actresses .Has anybody ever heard that fatwa is issued against any muslim actress .As long as they keep religion out of their profession no one is going to say anything.All she is trying to do is to secure more publicity and votes by playing victim card and show britain  that how much oppressed culture she is from .She is a big Drama queen.She says that
> You don't see Asian models in general so How india whose fashion industry is managing?Models from all religion walk on ramp in India despite very conservative society
> 
> What is sad is that liberal sikh sites like sikhschic are publishing article on her portraying her as some role model for youngsters which clearly means that more young sikhs will prefer to cut their hair and choose the profession which they like to go



Kanwardeep Singh ji

Always appreciate your perceptions of current Sikhism. But let me correct one thing. SikhChic is not as you have described it a liberal Sikh site. For one thing its target audience is not youngsters. I can get you the web demographics for their site if you like. They are also not liberal. They are dedicated to diverse points of view. Here is the link to the bios of their columnists. There are several amritdhari Sikhs in the lot, including IJ Singh who writes for SPN, keshdhari Sikhs, and also some nonSikhs. 


http://www.sikhchic.com/columnists.php


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## SiKh-Boi (Jul 16, 2010)

hmmm not that beautiful:motherlylove:


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## preetdil.singh (Jul 16, 2010)

Aman Singh said:


> Harleen Kaur Nottay: Britain's Next Top Model?
> by STEVE HENDRY
> 
> They were hand-picked by Elle Macpherson for the final of Britain's Next Top Model but Harleen Kaur Nottay and Jennifer Smith are not your typical catwalk hopefuls.
> ...


i dont understand why u calling her kaur or sikh.when she is not a sikh acording to our guru rahat bina nahi sikh kahave rahat bina dar chota khave or rahni rahe soi sikh mera.but this girl doesnt have long hair thats the main identity of a sikh.why she is thinking abt their culture when she already doesnt know wats the culture of a sikh.she is saying these all only for the publicity if they will tell her to take off her all clothes then she will also do that thing also when she is saying wat my boyfrnd will think about me.she is tense for  her boy frnd not for the sikhi


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## issondhi (Jul 17, 2010)

Vahe Guru ji ka Kalsa Vahe Guruji ki Fateh,
Talking about role models, watch Panjabi singers on any TV Channels.Conciously or 
unconciously they have become the role models of Panjabi youth in India.They have played havoc with Sikhi in Panjab,and the young sikh girls are not for behind with 
short/cut hair.It is sad to see such bobbed hair girls claiming themselves from sikh families.
Adopt any profession you like but please dont link this with Sikhi.
God Bless,
Iqbal Singh


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## BhagatSingh (Jul 17, 2010)

Sangat ji

What does a Sikh role model mean to you? 
and in modern media?


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## alpa (Jul 17, 2010)

badshah said:


> No, no nooooooooooo..... you said people will look at her and then chop their hair off...... well you know I hardly see many Sikh with long hair...... so that why I am asking you to give a few names of Sikh that you think will appeal to the youth..... thanks - its your pick of people, you choose!



you are trying to find some ammunition so you could reason it out  

Clever enough.


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## roopsidhu (Jul 17, 2010)

SSA,
This is vey personal issue. The field she is working is of such nature. Why we bring religion into this. The cut hairs, shaven heads and semi nude pics etc are part of medelling.
I strongly believe that the statement by Harleen that she was upset or very uneasy, are just the "answers to interviewers questions on the spot. Any girl getting into medlling is fully aware of all these things from the begining.
Her statement might have been a part of the popularity propoganda. She has all the rights to do that as all the other stars do. 
As far as Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji teachings are concerned the cut-hair, shaven heads, type of dress etc are not the only aspects to be a sikh.
She is on the peak in her business, lets not try to unstabalize her by creating issues out off nothing.
Roop Sidhu


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## KD SINGH (Jul 17, 2010)

Interesting Topic.......

Why at all discuss about a Girl who says she is a sikh when there is absolutely no indication that she is one...

Dear All please be clear in your minds...Being a Sikh is very difficult.
Thats why it was said...
"Sir Dhar Tali Gali meri aawo...."
Being a True Sikh means U R Pure....At all fronts
*Appearance*
*Thoughts*
*Karm*
*& Living Life for others.*


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## badshah (Jul 17, 2010)

roopsidhu said:


> SSA,
> This is vey personal issue. The field she is working is of such nature. Why we bring religion into this. The cut hairs, shaven heads and semi nude pics etc are part of medelling.
> I strongly believe that the statement by Harleen that she was upset or very uneasy, are just the "answers to interviewers questions on the spot. Any girl getting into medlling is fully aware of all these things from the begining.
> Her statement might have been a part of the popularity propoganda. She has all the rights to do that as all the other stars do.
> ...


 
Well in defence of the OP, many young kids will say wow show looks sexy and got all these hot guys running after her in the pics and she has a hot body, so mum, dad I want the exact haircut as her and want the same clothes and want lots of boy friends....... so what you going to tell your 16 year daughter now?

The point is.... there is no role model "in the big" that is doing conservative things to show your kids in opposition of say Harleen..... Also being famous, being a model.... is all lights, camera, action, money, bling bling, fast cars, big houses, suuceess, paparatzi - how you going to tell someone this is wrong, most people would dream of being in this situation......  so what you gonna do?

Also, for all the people who are posting here, who are you?  I mean are you people that are doing 9 - 5 jobs, big business peoples, successful people?????  Another point is, if you yourself are no role model then how you going to say what she is doing is wrong?

From what I have written you will notice that I am for and against her at the same time - this just goes to show stop looking at others and become role models yourselves otherwise you are wasting your time looking at others!

As I said, money talks, ******** walks.........


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## kds1980 (Jul 17, 2010)

amrit.saggu said:


> I agree she's probably just using this as a publicity thing..however you can't deny that at some level she must be feeling a fear of backlash. I mean, I'm a kesdhari Sikh, I follow GGSJ and I feel a backlash from my society just because I want to live according to GGSJ alone...without external maryadas...jeez..the problem is the "Sikh community" as a whole does not reflect Sikh values...simple and plain....



LOL what type of backlash do you fear? as far she is concerned what is the meaning of backlash? If she feels that sikhs are going to beat her up then she is wrong.Gossip yes but again that always happen in society


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## kds1980 (Jul 17, 2010)

badshah said:


> Lol - this is life!
> 
> SHe chose the career and good luck to her....
> 
> ...



I have not said anything against her.She is one of the many sikh models that are doing their job in this world.

Have you heard the name of Amanpreet wahi ,Gul panag,Neha dhupia.They all come from sikh family.Have you ever seen them using them words like that they are fearing cultural backlash?Then why is she pretending that she is afraid.

The only thing that is controveresial here is Why her article is published on sikh site?


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## kds1980 (Jul 17, 2010)

roopsidhu said:


> SSA,
> This is vey personal issue. The field she is working is of such nature. Why we bring religion into this. The cut hairs, shaven heads and semi nude pics etc are part of medelling.
> I strongly believe that the statement by Harleen that she was upset or very uneasy, are just the "answers to interviewers questions on the spot. Any girl getting into medlling is fully aware of all these things from the begining.
> Her statement might have been a part of the popularity propoganda. She has all the rights to do that as all the other stars do.
> ...



I don't think we are bringing religion into it.It is she who is telling everybody that what is her background.I don't think anybody would have discussed her
if the article on her was not published on sikhchic.Every year many sikh girls 
enter indian modelling industry and goes out of it havce you ever seen any discussion on them


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## kds1980 (Jul 17, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Kanwardeep Singh ji
> 
> Always appreciate your perceptions of current Sikhism. But let me correct one thing. SikhChic is not as you have described it a liberal Sikh site. For one thing its target audience is not youngsters. I can get you the web demographics for their site if you like. They are also not liberal. They are dedicated to diverse points of view. Here is the link to the bios of their columnists. There are several amritdhari Sikhs in the lot, including IJ Singh who writes for SPN, keshdhari Sikhs, and also some nonSikhs.
> 
> ...



Narayanjot ji

Sikhchic is a site for everybody.audience of sikhchic is vast and youngsters do read it.I don't think anybody can write article and publish it on sikhchic.
Don't you think before publishing it they read and approve an article?

Let me ask you a question .If tommorow there is story of sikh man whose life was in mess because of turban and beard and after discarding it he says that 
many of his problem vanished ,Like he got job,got a girl etc.Now my question is will sikhchic allow this type of article to be published?


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## kds1980 (Jul 17, 2010)

> Also, for all the people who are posting here, who are you? I mean are you people that are doing 9 - 5 jobs, big business peoples, successful people????? Another point is, if you yourself are no role model then how you going to say what she is doing is wrong?
> 
> From what I have written you will notice that I am for and against her at the same time - this just goes to show stop looking at others and become role models yourselves otherwise you are wasting your time looking at others!
> 
> As I said, money talks, ******** walks.........



Yes so all of us should abandon sikhism and adopt teaching of Guru Badal ji who will tell us how to make more and more money.

as far your other points are concerned that people should stop discussion please ask admins of this site to shut it as most of us are in no position to discuss any topic


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## badshah (Jul 17, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> I have not said anything against her.She is one of the many sikh models that are doing their job in this world.
> 
> Have you heard the name of Amanpreet wahi ,Gul panag,Neha dhupia.They all come from sikh family.Have you ever seen them using them words like that they are fearing cultural backlash?Then why is she pretending that she is afraid.
> 
> The only thing that is controveresial here is Why her article is published on sikh site?


 
Maybe because she comes from a good background of people..... I dunno!


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## badshah (Jul 17, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> Yes so all of us should abandon sikhism and adopt teaching of Guru Badal ji who will tell us how to make more and more money.
> 
> as far your other points are concerned that people should stop discussion please ask admins of this site to shut it as most of us are in no position to discuss any topic


 
No, not to that extreme..... we should all strive to be sucessul, have Sikhi on our sides and be role models.....  basically have some sort of balance.

Again... you have taken it literally.... you are free to discuss who ever you want..... but to a certain point you are wasting your time because sitting infront of a computer typing like me is not going to change any thing so its better we work on being the best we can instead of looking at others too much - having said that, these online discussions can be healthy but again priorituy should be yourself not other people taking their clothes of etc etc because there actually is a market for what she is doing and lots of guys would love to see her naked etc etc so no point thinking about it to much.


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## dilraj7447 (Jul 17, 2010)

Waheguruje ka khalsa te Waheguruje ke Fateh !

Well, What I read the internal Struggle is very intelligent from the girl HARLEEN KAUR. She clearly understands that her religion does not permit such things and in abid to not make them angry gives such statements.Has Mandira Bedi removed her Tatoo of EK Onkar from her back . Neha DHupia has flaunted her body well . All these girls and their parents never understand what stuff was Bibi Bani jee or Mata Gujri jee. They are all selfish stuff , wantinf to follow their dreams . Not bad to follow dreams . But if parents instill and the girls understand what is to preserve Sikhism , they would have dreamt of doing something for the needy Sikh girls and Guys in Punjab or west in London/Canada /US who get lured from Non Sikh guys and get into wrong way of life.

These are the people who have lived for long and understand the nitty gritty of those areas well and can help new sikh guys to preserve theri religion. These women know to flaunt their bodies but do not how to use their brains to preserve their religion what to talk of preaching . Cutting theri hair , Waxing and all other things ...Is this Sikh Religion ...Follow dreams but be realisitic in dreaming ....Do not rush after materialistic things in this world ....You will be definitely pumped by the selfish men to flaunt yourselves but then choice is yours ....


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## kds1980 (Jul 17, 2010)

badshah said:


> No, not to that extreme..... we should all strive to be sucessul, have Sikhi on our sides and be role models.....  basically have some sort of balance.
> 
> Again... you have taken it literally.... you are free to discuss who ever you want..... but to a certain point you are wasting your time because sitting infront of a computer typing like me is not going to change any thing so its better we work on being the best we can instead of looking at others too much - having said that, these online discussions can be healthy but again priorituy should be yourself not other people taking their clothes of etc etc because there actually is a market for what she is doing and lots of guys would love to see her naked etc etc so no point thinking about it to much.



Dear badshah

Everyone knows the priority is yourself.But discussion forums like SPN are for discussion.If you feel that they are waste of time then you should not discuss anything on forums .


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## kds1980 (Jul 17, 2010)

badshah said:


> Maybe because she comes from a good background of people..... I dunno!



She is a model and lives of models and actors are totally dependent on media.
On sikh sangat this issue was discussed and some people were quite surprised her by playing victim card because she is actually doing modelling and dance shows from past few years without any backlash from sikh community and suddenly in a show she remember about backlash and her conservative background.So this is nothing more than a publicity stunt


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## badshah (Jul 17, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> She is a model and lives of models and actors are totally dependent on media.
> On sikh sangat this issue was discussed and some people were quite surprised her by playing victim card because she is actually doing modelling and dance shows from past few years without any backlash from sikh community and suddenly in a show she remember about backlash and her conservative background.So this is nothing more than a publicity stunt


 
Yeah, she did hesitate a bit when asked the question..... anyway..... good luck to her.... she does not affect me because I do not want to become a model.....

Also on an ending note from me..... she is no big deal tbh..... you got far bigger personalities that can affect the way of life of people that..... and those people that can do that are people like Pamela Anderson, Paris Hilton, Cindy Crawford, Kate Moss..... they affect the media on mass, whereas what this thread is about just does not even compare


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## HarinderSinghNijjar (Jul 17, 2010)

I am surprised to see this article on this website. Just because someone use Singh or Kaur as last or middle name does not mean person is a devoted Sikh. Using last name is what govt authorities require these days at time of birth for birth records and child has no say into it what so ever, and name change later on is a nightmare and very complex procedure. So let me make it clear here that I have no objection on anybody's name. 

This website is about SIKH PHILOSOPHY and what Sikhism is all about and not about news like this for a professional achievement which is not related to Sikhism or Sikh faith at all. She is a very talented girl with nature given beauty and deserves to reach all the heights in her professional career, but it is not related to Sikh philosophy. 
SO LEAVE THIS TOPIC OUT OF CONVERSATION and you smart *** comments.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jul 17, 2010)

HarinderSinghNijjar said:


> I am surprised to see this article on this website. Just because someone use Singh or Kaur as last or middle name does not mean person is a devoted Sikh. Using last name is what govt authorities require these days at time of birth for birth records and child has no say into it what so ever, and name change later on is a nightmare and very complex procedure. So let me make it clear here that I have no objection on anybody's name.
> 
> This website is about SIKH PHILOSOPHY and what Sikhism is all about and not about news like this for a professional achievement which is not related to Sikhism or Sikh faith at all. She is a very talented girl with nature given beauty and deserves to reach all the heights in her professional career, but it is not related to Sikh philosophy.
> SO LEAVE THIS TOPIC OUT OF CONVERSATION and you smart *** comments.




Harinder Singh Nijjar ji,

Actually, all sorts of things are discussed on this forum, some only marginally related to Sikhi.  As a part of being Sikhs, everything going on in the world affects us and is a part of us.

I think the fact that this girl is perceived as Sikh by some makes her a valid topic.  Certainly, she is not the most important subject;  the Panth has plenty of problems these days that we can be discussing.  And they are being discussed.  I think it's important to keep our interests broad on the forum.  For those uninterested, there are many other threads alive and well.

And, of course, you can always start a new thread, if there's something you want to discuss.  :motherlylove:

icecreamkaur


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## Randip Singh (Jul 17, 2010)

Mai Harinder Kaur said:


> I have all sorts of opinions on this, but I think I'll sit back and see what some of our younger members have to say.  I'm really interested in their responses on this one.
> 
> The ball is now in their court!



We already have women, acting like pieces of meat in Bollywood and Hollywood for mens titilation, why do people have to think that this is the best way to get on in life?

Why not be a scientist, a soldier or and artist? Why the hell a piece of meat for men to ogle over?

This is not cultural, but the view of a Liberal minded human being who has been brought up in the West and is quite frankly fed up of the X factor, instant fame culture we have nowadays!!!!


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## kds1980 (Jul 17, 2010)

Randip Singh said:


> We already have women, acting like pieces of meat in Bollywood and Hollywood for mens titilation, why do people have to think that this is the best way to get on in life?
> 
> Why not be a scientist, a soldier or and artist? Why the hell a piece of meat for men to ogle over?
> 
> This is not cultural, but the view of a Liberal minded human being who has been brought up in the West and is quite frankly fed up of the X factor, instant fame culture we have nowadays!!!!



Well men also work as a piece of meat in bollywood.Is there not a craze among men to make their bodies more and more attractive for Girls?


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## roopsidhu (Jul 17, 2010)

SSA,

This is just a publisity gaining propoganda. And she has been successful. We sikhs ! what a caring nature we have got ! Someone (whose name got singh or kaur) just give one statements and we start discussions. I remember in the past Narayanjot Kaur ji had to remind the readers to respond to some real sikhi related issues. It clearly shows that what we are more into.
Roopsidhu


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## spnadmin (Jul 18, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> Narayanjot ji
> 
> Sikhchic is a site for everybody.audience of sikhchic is vast and youngsters do read it.I don't think anybody can write article and publish it on sikhchic.
> Don't you think before publishing it they read and approve an article?
> ...




Kanwardeep Singh ji
You are right this time. SikhChic is for a diverse group, just as I said in my previous post. It is not a liberal site, as you said in one of your previous posts. I will post the web profile for its visitors after I read all the new threads for today. 

Added later. At this link are the statistics describing the typical web audience for SikhChic. They should give us a sense as to whether youngsters are likely to form the wrong impressions from this information http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/sikhchic.com


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## spnadmin (Jul 18, 2010)

What about this Sikh model? What do forum members have to say. He was a well publicized image following the 2009 Mumbai fashion extravaganza held every year. In fact the promotional material states the  Sikh presence was definitely felt that year.

In some ways he is presenting a very different picture - he is keshdhari  or so it appears. Like Harleen is he seeking publicity? Is it OK for him to be a fashion model? Is he a good or a bad role model for youngsters? Has he abandoned Sikh values? Do we know if he will take off his clothes if he is asked to do so? 

Full story at this link
http://fateh.sikhnet.com//sikhnet/news.nsf/NewsArchive/8085193843C0592F87257420004FD365

I picked this up at Sikhnet which is also a Sikh site.


There is says ?'Moreover, it also signified that being a Sikh doesn't hinder you from being a model and sporting the latest fashion. The line is meant for the more fashion conscious consumer,' he added."

Just some thoughts.:happykaur:


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## dilraj7447 (Jul 18, 2010)

Well, 

Very apparently , it looks to promote the designer clothes to Sikh Guys. The guy in the picture and the model show were not real Sikh Guys . 

If you actually want to discuss the SIKH MoDELLING then those guys would  flaunt their gatka skills , their well built strong bodies not naked but in a decent manner only ofcourse sikhs are known strong fighters whom enemies have feared. Look at Baba Deep singh jee Long and Well Built . One SUch Example. Look at This link :

http://www.sikhnet.com/news/2009-mr-singh-international-competition-announced

These are SIkh Models.

Well Can you tell me who have promoted this site ? I wish to know the names of the persons who have started this site ?

One other reply to one of the singhs . Writing in front of this Laptop is a way of communicationg and discussing things related to our culture. defintely, the need should be that we people after discussion should involve like minded people , meet and start doing action. We can be teach each other many things ans also other sikh guys and girls . Is anybody willing to come forward ...Lets start on weekends to meet if we all belong from some nearby areas, carry out some surveys on the areas to be focussed for preaching or imparting Sikh education or taking help of some people who know animation to teach our small children the sikh history get it telecast on PTC small children like POGO .CN watch Chota Bheem hanuman , But do they know bhai Matidas Jee or bhai taru jee ...We need to use todays media and other soucres to work out things in the most easy manner from the children.

Thanks .

:khanda3:


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## Santokh Singh1989 (Jul 18, 2010)

I personaly don't like the whole thing. I'm not a big fan of the whole modeling scene whether it be with men or women. In many cases doing those types of jobs causes a person to lower their morals and standards and pushes them more towards a babylonian exsitence or in other words a life atached to maya. I see it as bringing down the already patheticly low moral fabric of our western societies. As for her telling people to follow their dreams, well, I agree people should do that but I also believe people should seriously sit down and examine what their dreams are and how they will effect the world around them. For example, if it was my dream to become the biggest and most powerful drug dealer in North America is that really something I should try and pursure? I don't know, I may only be 21 years old but I'm very "Old Fashioned" as it were. Anyways, thats just my 2 cents worth. I don't expect everyone to agree with me.
Sat Naam Saadh Sangat


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## kds1980 (Jul 18, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Kanwardeep Singh ji
> You are right this time. SikhChic is for a diverse group, just as I said in my previous post. It is not a liberal site, as you said in one of your previous posts. I will post the web profile for its visitors after I read all the new threads for today.
> 
> Added later. At this link are the statistics describing the typical web audience for SikhChic. They should give us a sense as to whether youngsters are likely to form the wrong impressions from this information http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/sikhchic.com



Well sikhchic is certainly not an orthodox site.The discussion about Harleen is also going on sikhchic and look what one person has written in it.



> B. (London, United Kingdom), July 16, 2010, 6:19 PM.
> If having cut your hair is not an issue, then why were we told to keep it?



I don't know whether this person is he/she and falls in which age Group


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## spnadmin (Jul 18, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh ji Glad you are backing off a little bit. The statistical audience profile is a view of the "typical." There will be precocious young people who like to read more sophisticated information that can be found in SikhChic. The question you quoted is actually an excellent question for a youngster to pose to adults because if B is a youngster then B is simply saying - If you are what you say you are, then give me an answer that makes sense.

You know when I was 10 years old I was already reading Time Magazine and asking my parents to explain sex scandals in the British government and was a lesbian was. And they just answered. And that was 54 years ago. They were/are not liberals and they promoted education over glamor -- to a ridiculous extent. However, my parents did not ever hide reading material or protect me from reality.


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## spnadmin (Jul 18, 2010)

Dilraj ji

In your above post you asked who was promoting "this site?" I am not sure what site you are referring to. I can find out if you let me know.


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## badshah (Jul 18, 2010)

Santokh Singh1989 said:


> I personaly don't like the whole thing. I'm not a big fan of the whole modeling scene whether it be with men or women. In many cases doing those types of jobs causes a person to lower their morals and standards and pushes them more towards a babylonian exsitence or in other words a life atached to maya. I see it as bringing down the already patheticly low moral fabric of our western societies. As for her telling people to follow their dreams, well, I agree people should do that but I also believe people should seriously sit down and examine what their dreams are and how they will effect the world around them. For example, if it was my dream to become the biggest and most powerful drug dealer in North America is that really something I should try and pursure? I don't know, I may only be 21 years old but I'm very "Old Fashioned" as it were. Anyways, thats just my 2 cents worth. I don't expect everyone to agree with me.
> Sat Naam Saadh Sangat


 
I was also going to write about a career in drug dealin but then deleted what I wrote...... the point is, yeah some Sikhs may decide to make a living in crime but to be honest with you I would not go around seeking fame from it but just stay under the radar.


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## badshah (Jul 18, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> Well sikhchic is certainly not an orthodox site.The discussion about Harleen is also going on sikhchic and look what one person has written in it.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know whether this person is he/she and falls in which age Group


 
I wrote that:

Harminder: "This is in response to "Joti Kaur" - simply having long hair does not make one a Sikh. I have never had long hair, but I consider myself a Sikh. I know some people who are Amritdhari Sikhs who certainly do not live their lives according to the ideology promoted by our Gurus. Physical appearance does not always correlate to a person's belief and values systems. What is important - in my humble opinion - is that the key values of our religion (hard-work, charity, remembering God) are followed. "

B: "I think Harminder and the others are confused ... basically yes, you are not a good person merely because you keep your hair unshorn, and you may not be a good person if you cut you hair. You are confusing the notion of keeping hair and being good or bad. One thing is clear though, that Sikhism is not only defined by your actions but also your outer appearance which includes keeping your hair to preserve your God-given gifts. If having cut your hair is not an issue, then why were we told to keep it?"

What I was trying to get at, is if Harminder does not believe keeping hair is that important then why did the religion instruct us to keep our hair.... which is kind of challenging her to speak against Sikhism..... winkingmunda (check mate!)


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## badshah (Jul 18, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> What about this Sikh model? What do forum members have to say. He was a well publicized image following the 2009 Mumbai fashion extravaganza held every year. In fact the promotional material states the Sikh presence was definitely felt that year.
> 
> In some ways he is presenting a very different picture - he is keshdhari or so it appears. Like Harleen is he seeking publicity? Is it OK for him to be a fashion model? Is he a good or a bad role model for youngsters? Has he abandoned Sikh values? Do we know if he will take off his clothes if he is asked to do so?
> 
> ...


 
So is this a fake Singh? His paagh looks cool, might copy it......... any way lets just say he is a real Singh I would say that he is a good role model..... you see, some like him would be the perfect example of a modern Sikhs.... being cool and trendy which goes to show you how Sikhs can be cool, attractive etc etc and its not only the monay Sikhs that have these traits as portrayed by the media. So girls will say, yah man he is hot where can I find Singhs like him and all of a sudden Singhs are popular again.

So this model would be doing Sikhism a favour in a postive direction..... I know some of the hardcore Sikhs here would say that I am wrong because you should not be vain, try and look good, stay humble but then if this model is not acceptable then the only avenue people will find is to chop the hair off to escape your critism for going in the right direction but with a modern touch..... winkingmunda


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## spnadmin (Jul 18, 2010)

badshah ji

My purpose in posting this picture was to ask for more reflection about some of the red herrings and assumptions that tend to be made when we read stories like those about Harleen and Mandira. I have no opinion about whether the Singh is a real Singh a real Sikh or a good role model, because I DON'T KNOW THIS MAN PERSONALLY. 



badshah said:


> So is this a fake Singh?
> 
> Please do not try to read my thoughts. I have no idea whether he is a fake Singh or not.
> 
> ...



You have addressed exactly the issue that I was hoping would be addressed.  That imho is one of the key discussion points relevant to Sikhi in the story about Harleen Kaur - of course not the only relevant point - but an important one.


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## badshah (Jul 18, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> badshah ji
> 
> My purpose in posting this picture was to ask for more reflection about some of the red herrings and assumptions that tend to be made when we read stories like those about Harleen and Mandira. I have no opinion about whether the Singh is a real Singh a real Sikh or a good role model, because I DON'T KNOW THIS MAN PERSONALLY.
> 
> ...


 
Yah but Harleen is doing the opposite to the fake Singh/real Singh..... *From a Sikhism point of view* she represents comformation to what other people need her to look like and therefore plays the victim, but the fake Singh/real Singh represents yeah I am Singh, I am hot and porud - yeaaaaah!

With regards to whether the Singh man had to take his clothes off...... this topic goes back to an old way of thinking and that is if that Singh model was pictured in just his boxer shorts, with a muscular sexy body with naked women all around him - he would be called a stud! If a girl like Harleen did the same then she would be called a {censored}!

However Harleen is the right person for her job because just imagine if that was a proper Sikh girl wearing 5K's going naked in hot lingerie then I am sure she would be shot dead..... so the point is although Harleen is a Sikh she does not represent proper Sikhism and therefore has everything going for her without any backlashs, so she she stiop crying and good luck to her!  This is why Sunny Leone also gets away with what she does.... lol!winkingmunda


***Also I think girls get called sluts for getting naked and virtually doswoened especially form people of Indian culture is because if you look at the past women would be seen as the honour of many socities and when people wanted to take over and area then invading party would take their women for themselves or rape them to crush the mood of the men. Thats why women in Indian culture are expected to keep high values for themselves. However this is changing as now parents are having their arms twisted by their children and now even grandparents of some people are saying hey this is england and sex out of wedlock is okay, cutting hair is okay, getting naked is okay....


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## badshah (Jul 18, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> badshah ji
> 
> I have no opinion about whether the Singh is a real Singh a real Sikh or a good role model, because I DON'T KNOW THIS MAN PERSONALLY.


 
.....but you do not know that Harleen either.....  we do not need to know them since I think at the moment we are only talking from a outward appearance point of view....


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## spnadmin (Jul 18, 2010)

badshah ji

Maybe I was too subtle. I did not think so.



badshah said:


> Yah but Harleen is doing the opposite to the fake Singh/real Singh..... *From a Sikhism point of view* she represents comformation to what other people need her to look like and therefore plays the victim, but the fake Singh/real Singh represents yeah I am Singh, I am hot and porud - yeaaaaah!
> 
> True.
> 
> ...



Thanks. Don't read too much in the way of my personal beliefs when responding to  my questions. All I am doing is weighing what I am reading and asking if we are having a serious discussion about models and role models.


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## badshah (Jul 18, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> badshah ji
> 
> Maybe I was too subtle. I did not think so.
> 
> ...


 

What is a proper Sikh girl?

Proper SIkh guy or girl is one that represents Sikhism from a outward and inward way.... its the full package! 

"What in the article and conversation to follow brings us to the idea of a "proper Sikh girl wearing 5 k's going naked in hot lingerie?"

Its not anything in the article but a way of explaining that since Harleen is not an amritdari Sikh she can do her modelling job.... the point is that if you whole heartedly have solid values in SIkhism then you will not compromise your belief for a modelling job and thats why you will probably never see a proper Sikh girl modelling nude/in lingeire or you will change yourself to not properly represent Sikhism and therefore be able to do such a job.....

For example lots of Singh want to do naughty stuff so they trim their beards and now no longer properly represent SIkhsim....


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## spnadmin (Jul 18, 2010)

Thanks badshah ji as I had no idea where you were coming from.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jul 18, 2010)

A long time ago, I knew a drug/alcoholism counselor named Larry Something who had a theme he kept hammering on:  "If your inside and outside don't match, you're going to have big problems."  I think this is relevant here.

Only the young lady can know if her inside and outside match.  I do not feel I have the right to judge whether she is a Sikh or not, based on the SRM, which I accept, even when I disagree with it.  For me, my inside and outside matching includes 5 kakkars, although, of course, people don't generally see my kechera.

I can say that I don't like the larger community pointing to a scantily clad woman and saying "That's a Sikh."  I also do not like people pointing at drug gangs in lower BC and saying, "They are Sikhs."  I especially do not like people pointing to spousal abuse, "honour killings" and forced marriages and saying "Those are Sikhs."  Equally, it hurts me deeply when people point to men - it's always Singhs in this case - brawling with erstwhile kirpans in gurudwaras while the rest of the world looks on smirking, "Those are Sikhs."  These are larger issues in our community that need to be addressed, as well.  Since they really are being addressed, I see no harm in a discussion of Bhenji Harleen Kaur Nottay.

My personal opinion of her? I think she looks like an anorexic bobbed-hair toothpick.  She is far too skinny for me to see any feminine beauty in her body.  Her face is classically beautiful  in the Punjabi mold, although again, a bit gaunt.  I would personally like to see what she looks like under all the paint.  I suspect there is a true beauty lurking in there.  

(I know models need to be thin and globbed with cosmetics.  I also know that I don't need to like that look.  And I don't!)

But what do I know? I'm an old fuddy-duddy of 58 stuck in the 1960s.  And a fat fuddy-duddy at that!

icecreamkaur


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## kds1980 (Jul 18, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Kanwardeep Singh ji Glad you are backing off a little bit. The statistical audience profile is a view of the "typical." There will be precocious young people who like to read more sophisticated information that can be found in SikhChic. The question you quoted is actually an excellent question for a youngster to pose to adults because if B is a youngster then B is simply saying - If you are what you say you are, then give me an answer that makes sense.
> 
> You know when I was 10 years old I was already reading Time Magazine and asking my parents to explain sex scandals in the British government and was a lesbian was. And they just answered. And that was 54 years ago. They were/are not liberals and they promoted education over glamor -- to a ridiculous extent. However, my parents did not ever hide reading material or protect me from reality.



The problem is not so simple as you mentioned.The answer for gay, lesbian are simple but answer why to keep uncut hair for sikh or why is it necessary 
is not simple. parents themselves are confused about it
Sikhism has maintained one position and that is not to promote
any role models which are clean shaven or not to promote any profession where it is necessary to cut hair.That is why we hardly see article on acheivement of clean shaven sikhs.I don't even know how many male and female sikh models are working in Indian modelling industry because no one care about it and neither they ever mention that they are sikh models

Actually it is well known fact and fear among sikh masses that the day they start making casual approach towards uncut hair then not even 1% of sikh youths will maintain it.


And just tell you the fact that few months back I educated my 65 year old father what is a lesbian icecreammunda


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## spnadmin (Jul 18, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> The problem is not so simple as you mentioned.The answer for gay, lesbian are simple but answer why to keep uncut hair for sikh or why is it necessary
> is not simple. parents themselves are confused about it
> Sikhism has maintained one position and that is not to promote
> any role models which are clean shaven or not to promote any profession where it is necessary to cut hair.That is why we hardly see article on acheivement of clean shaven sikhs.I don't even know how many male and female sikh models are working in Indian modelling industry because no one care about it and neither they ever mention that they are sikh models
> ...



Kanwardeep Singh ji

Perhaps, I was not clear. The point of my comment about being free as a child to read and ask questions about lesbians had nothing to do with Sikhism's stand on lesbians and gays. This was my response to the idea that young people would be influenced by "liberal" articles in SikhChic. It is dangerous to put information into heavy wraps and think that you are protecting young people by doing so. They will grow up, they will find out, and without any exposure they run a greater risk: To continue life as an ostrich or become fanatics - one way or the other.

 I am aware of the SRM stating that one should not dishonor the hair. *Which authorities said "not to promote" cutting hair? Emphasis on the word "promote." Which authorities said not to promote professions where it is necessary to cut hair?* Are there authorities in Sikhism who have the power and agenda to control the news and limit the flow of information? I did not think so. But if there are please do tell me who they are.


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## kds1980 (Jul 18, 2010)

> I am aware of the SRM stating that one should not dishonor the hair. Which authorities said "not to promote" cutting hair? Emphasis on the word "promote." Which authorities said not to promote professions where it is necessary to cut hair? Are there authorities in Sikhism who have the power and agenda to control the news and limit the flow of information? I did not think so. But if there are please do tell me who they are.



I am unable to get your point If sikhism says that not to cut hair then how could anyone linked to sikhism could promote cutting hair.It becomes totally contradictory


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## spnadmin (Jul 18, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> I am unable to get your point If sikhism says that not to cut hair then how could anyone linked to sikhism could promote cutting hair.It becomes totally contradictory



Kanwardeep Singh ji

Yes... I am asking 1 very specific thing. 

Who are the* authorities* who are speaking against *promoting *the cutting of hair and seeking professions where one has to cut one's hair. That is not a difficult question. 

The SRM forbids dishonoring the hair. A person of average intelligence can figure out that they are in for a backlash if he/she chooses to dishonor their hair. Who are the authorities?


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## dilraj7447 (Jul 19, 2010)

sikh philosophy .net.....I see people putting up their views on this site. Only Discussions.

Can the promotors of this site or we all who are actively involved in all these discussions come forward to take some action . We need action or practical work more than these discussions. 

I find nobody coming up with practical action :

Can the promoters of this site come forward ?

Can we or somebody amongst us learn more about sikh history to devlop some animated serials for children focussing on People like Baba Deep Singh jee , Bhai Mati das Jee. 

When children will know the importance of hair , meaning of preserving their religion . the next generation will have these things in the blood. DO you know about MADRSAS concept ? Children are taught their from the beginning about jehads and then that thing goes in the blood .We can imbibe good things our sikh history culture via the media.

I am trying to teach my child about sikh history. He has more influence of choota bheem on POGO rather than my verbal teachings of sikh history. 

WHen I showed him bhai mati das jee on the photo , only then he understood what i meant.

SO , we need to work out rather than discuss amongst a few individuals. the need is to reach masses and classes of sikhism.
khandaa


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## spnadmin (Jul 19, 2010)

dilraj7447 said:


> sikh philosophy .net.....I see people putting up their views on this site. Only Discussions.
> 
> Can the promotors of this site or we all who are actively involved in all these discussions come forward to take some action . We need action or practical work more than these discussions.
> 
> ...



dilraaj7447 ji

I think I understand now. This site, Sikh Philosophy Network, is considered a public forum because anyone can join and no one pays dues. However, the ownership is individual because someone has to take legal responsibility for forum actions. I put this in a clumsy way; but if that was not clear let me know. SPN is *not* classified as a membership forum, where members pay dues and because of that they vote on forum policies and decisions. All of us who are admin, moderators/leaders and mentors with red, yellow or purple id's are volunteers. There are no promoters, and except for those who advertise there are no sponsors,  in an official capacity. Only the leadership team and the members. 

But here is what we can do. We can take your concern very seriously and even begin a collection of resources, stories, materials for young people on the subject of hair. Your suggestion is terrific. Already we do have a lot of threads on the subject; however they are not together in one spot. We should start a single sub-area just for kes/hair. I will pass this recommendation on to Aman Singh ji. Also we can work harder to find more and different material about kes -- things that are educational and inspirational.

Please continue to provide your suggestions. This may not be enough but it is a start. In fact when we get this section organized, you must tell us what we are missing.


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## Randip Singh (Jul 19, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> Well men also work as a piece of meat in bollywood.Is there not a craze among men to make their bodies more and more attractive for Girls?


 

Yes exactly!

To desctructive ends, as the steroid Shah Rukhs of Bollywood will suffer ultimately.


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## kds1980 (Jul 19, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Kanwardeep Singh ji
> 
> Yes... I am asking 1 very specific thing.
> 
> ...



Well Narayanjot ji

All religions are divided in sects and different sects have different authorities.
so you will find many authorties in sikhism

BTW your question automatically gives birth to 1000s question.Now if a sikh is drug dealer and promote drugs he could say Who has the authority to ask me not promote drugs.similarly one can promote living guru and ask who has the authority among sikhs to stop me promoting my living guru?and the questions goes on and on.In the end sikhism will become a religion of what you like


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## spnadmin (Jul 19, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> Well Narayanjot ji
> 
> All religions are divided in sects and different sects have different authorities.
> so you will find many authorties in sikhism
> ...



I agree completely on this point. The entire matter is a ball of tangled yarn. How to get to the bottom of it?


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## Tejwant Singh (Jul 19, 2010)

Wow!

When I saw this thread, I did not even bother reading it but after seeing 64 posts, it aroused my  curiosity and I decided to read each and every post.

Before I offer my 2 cent worth, I have a question for people who live in India.

Are there any beauty contests  in India where Sikh contestants participate and is there a swim suit category in it?

I agree with Narayanjot ji's last post that,"The entire matter is a ball of tangled yarn."

In order to untangle this yarn, knot by knot, we would have to make Sikhi into a much bigger tent than it  is where traditions and the Gurmat Ideals given to us by our only Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib can intermingle and sometimes can be conflicting which would make us breed acceptance of others, no matter how they look outwardly, with or without baana but how they pitch in the society to make it better with the help of Gurmat Ideals, which is the duty of anyone who calls himself/herself a Sikh.

Let's not forget  that there are also Sehajdhari Sikhs and Bhai Nand Lal did not take Khandei di pahul but he is respected in Sikhi.

Guru Gobind Singh ji gave the name Singh and Kaur to only those that took Khandei de pahul but then later on the tradition allowed Sikhs to keep hair or not and have the name Singh and Kaur which has been accepted by us for a long time.

Those who live in India may not understand this, but some parts of the diaspora society is much more conservative and have the taliban mentality than the Amritdhari Sikhs living in India.

A play called Bhetzi was banned in the UK due to the protests by these Sikhs with the taliban mentality. This was discussed here.(Request to the Moderators, please locate the thread and post it here).

So,  Harleen's concern as a UK resident is genuine and should been see under the above light.

It  is very easy for us to judge others by their appearance or actions. It is  like playing Ik Ong Kaar which makes us forget that Sikhi is a jounrney of the individual, hence each of us carries his/her own spiritual torch. Sri Guru Granth Sahib, our only Guru urges us to become better as individuals, not cast stones at others whom we think our unfit according to our own subjective benchmarks.

Let's strive to become better as individuals and give our best wishes to Harleen in her career which is a very short lived one. 

Who knows that she becomes an Amritdhari Sikh and turns out to be much better than all of us through her deeds after this short lived gig is over!

Tejwant Singh


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## spnadmin (Jul 27, 2010)

Harlene Nottay lost the competition. Circumstances turned out to be very traumatic for her.

I will post the link to the story. 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...ver-3-in-a-bed-lingerie-shoot-86908-22443174/

My lingering questions are these.  Whether judging her and pushing her aside is more fitting a reaction? Or whether compassion and taking a lesson learned about missteps in my own life is better?


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jul 27, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Harlene Nottay lost the competition. Circumstances turned out to be very traumatic for her.
> 
> I will post the link to the story.
> 
> ...



Ouch!  Narayanjot ji, please quit tweaking my ego!  At least in me, there is an element of "Hmmmph!  I'd never do such a thing."  And I wouldn't.  But who am I to judge her?  If I were to list my infractions against accepted Sikh behaviour, they would make quite a long list.

I read as many comments on that story as I could stomach.  Are people really that small-minded and cruel?  Someone please remind me to be kinder.

"Be kinder than is necessary.  Everybody is fighting some battle.  Their invisible wounds may be deeper than you can imagine."


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## spnadmin (Jul 27, 2010)

Mai ji

I knew you would say all the above. What happened is painful -- "Harlene's Rude Awakening." She has to make sense of it for herself. She seemed to have anticipated, just judging from the starter articles, it was not going to be easy.


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## ugsbay (Jul 27, 2010)

SSA.
I dont know what all the fuss is about, if she wants to be a model then its her choice. I dont think she is that nice anyway in my opinion, but thats besides the point. She should not have bought all the backlash buisness into it. I mean she is westernised to having a boyfriend and telling the world yet she seems worried about a backlash regarding her profession seems odd.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Jul 27, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Mai ji
> 
> I knew you would say all the above. What happened is painful -- "Harlene's Rude Awakening." She has to make sense of it for herself. She seemed to have anticipated, just judging from the starter articles, it was not going to be easy.



Narayanjot ji, you know me entirely too well.  It's about time for me to throw some jellybeans into the machinery.  http://alexpeak.com/twr/rhstt/


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## badshah (Jul 31, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> Harlene Nottay lost the competition. Circumstances turned out to be very traumatic for her.
> 
> I will post the link to the story.
> My lingering questions are these. Whether judging her and pushing her aside is more fitting a reaction? Or whether compassion and taking a lesson learned about missteps in my own life is better?


 
*** - I take back everything I said earlier about wishing her good luck in her modelling career.....  stupid b1#^& has got the word Sikh and a picture of a naked girls on a bed in between the legs of a guy that looks like he is going to hump her...... before I saw this pic I was just about to post something positive again and say that she is taking risk and will go places but after seeing a newspaper article with the title including Sikhs and the content including "Sikh girl" and then this pic:

The picture has been deleted because of its  content. Forum members who wish to see it can go to the link to the  follow up article. Although this may be censorship of a kind, we do  reserve the right to delete images that admin or moderators may deem lewd.

Why did she have to go around she is SIkh etc, she could have said she wads Indian or Asia...... I mean you dont hear of girls saying, hey I am a Hindu nude model, or a Muslim glamour model etc etc.

Good luck to her, she has a great career ahead of her in porn, they will be knocking on her door soon.....


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## badshah (Jul 31, 2010)

"lazycalm wrote: 
just another gold digga,trying to make a quick buck,nice try love.
29/7/2010 8:09 AM BST on dailyrecord.co.uk "

"langsidemonument wrote: I don't know much about Sikhism but I would think she was already on her way to their version of excommunication by disrobing in public in the first place. Being then asked to pose beside other males and females probably couldn't make the situation any worse!
I don't like when the race card is pulled - discrimination and equal rights should work in reverse too."

Can we get her to come to the Gurudwara so that we can give her a Saroop for her excellent work?


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## kds1980 (Jul 31, 2010)

> Why did she have to go around she is SIkh etc, she could have said she wads Indian or Asia...... I mean you dont hear of girls saying, hey I am a Hindu nude model, or a Muslim glamour model etc etc.



That is what I am saying in the discussion since it started .Katrina Kaif a muslim girl from UK
is almost the number 1 bollywood heroine of India By clearly outshing Aishhwarya Rai,Priyanka Chopra and kareena kapoor.Has she in her life ever used Muslim card.The answer is no


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## spnadmin (Jul 31, 2010)

Too bad UK is not governed by Sharia, for then she could be sentenced to 100 lashes. That would be the end of her modeling career.

The time may not be too far off.

welcomekaur


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## lionprinceuk (May 10, 2012)

Well, look, this girl's hairstyle is not cultural, and she is openly saying she has a boyfriend. Personally, I think if really need to be worried is when someone misrespresents the rest of us, and she culturally wouldn't represent most traditional punjabi sikhs as she clearly doesn't look or behave like one. 

For example, if I went outside and saw a punjabi girl with a skirt and whatever, drinking alcohol and/or smoking and or getting physically intimate with some guy, should I really be bothered to do anything about it, is it worth wasting my time in saying something?

I know parents in the UK, and some parents who are pretty traditional, as they were raised punjab, have either been to uneducated or too busy working and making money to instill the desi cultural values that build dharam into their children. Secondly, some of these parents don't have the guts/confidence to say anything to their children, and will say things similar to "They do this, but what can we do, oh well...". They just don;t have it in them...

Anyway,  the sikh community in the UK is so crewed up that this modelling thing is pretty minor, seriously!


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