# Man Har Rang Rāṯā Gāvaigo / ਮਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤਾ ਗਾਵੈਗੋ



## Ambarsaria (Dec 10, 2011)

> I post the following with my understanding and stand corrected as always.
> 
> http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1310&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=1&k=1





> ਕਾਨੜਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥
> कानड़ा महला ४ ॥
> Kānṛā mėhlā 4.
> Kaanraa, Fourth Mehl:
> ...


_Kaanra Guru Ramdas ji_



> ਮਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤਾ ਗਾਵੈਗੋ ॥
> 
> मनु हरि रंगि राता गावैगो ॥
> Man har rang rāṯā gāvaigo.
> ...


_With the creator’s love mind sings so imbued_


> ਭੈ ਭੈ ਤ੍ਰਾਸ ਭਏ ਹੈ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਲਾਗਿ ਲਗਾਵੈਗੋ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
> 
> भै भै त्रास भए है निरमल गुरमति लागि लगावैगो ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
> Bẖai bẖai ṯarās bẖa▫e hai nirmal gurmaṯ lāg lagāvaigo. ||1|| rahā▫o.
> ...


_All fears and exasperations are purified in consonance with creator’s wisdom_



> ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤਾ ਸਦ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਹਰਿ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਤਿਨਾ ਘਰਿ ਆਵੈਗੋ ॥
> 
> हरि रंगि राता सद बैरागी हरि निकटि तिना घरि आवैगो ॥
> Har rang rāṯā saḏ bairāgī har nikat ṯinā gẖar āvaigo.
> ...


_Colored with creator’s hue the disassociates and gets to the abode_


> ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਪੰਕ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਾਂ ਜੀਵਾ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਆਪਿ ਦਿਵਾਵੈਗੋ ॥੧॥
> 
> तिन की पंक मिलै तां जीवा करि किरपा आपि दिवावैगो ॥१॥
> Ŧin kī pank milai ṯāŉ jīvā kar kirpā āp ḏivāvaigo. ||1||
> ...


_Such’s dust from the feet one gets if so obliged by such_


> ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਲੋਭਿ ਲਗੇ ਹੈ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਮਨਿ ਕੋਰੈ ਰੰਗੁ ਨ ਆਵੈਗੋ ॥
> 
> दुबिधा लोभि लगे है प्राणी मनि कोरै रंगु न आवैगो ॥
> Ḏubiḏẖā lobẖ lage hai parāṇī man korai rang na āvaigo.
> ...


_People caught in me and you greed with mind so blank do not get the coloring_


> ਫਿਰਿ ਉਲਟਿਓ ਜਨਮੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਗੁਰ ਬਚਨੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਰੰਗੁ ਲਾਵੈਗੋ ॥੨॥
> 
> फिरि उलटिओ जनमु होवै गुर बचनी गुरु पुरखु मिलै रंगु लावैगो ॥२॥
> Fir ulti▫o janam hovai gur bacẖnī gur purakẖ milai rang lāvaigo. ||2||
> ...


_With creator’s directive such is reborn upside down and meeting followers of creator such is colored_


> ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਦਸੇ ਦਸੇ ਫੁਨਿ ਧਾਵਤ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣੀਆ ਖਿਨੁ ਨ ਟਿਕਾਵੈਗੋ ॥
> 
> इंद्री दसे दसे फुनि धावत त्रै गुणीआ खिनु न टिकावैगो ॥
> Inḏrī ḏase ḏase fun ḏẖāvaṯ ṯarai guṇī▫ā kẖin na tikāvaigo.
> ...


_All five senses and five body functions again and again wander and so the mind entangled in three dispositions does not for a moment find stability_


> ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪਰਚੈ ਵਸਗਤਿ ਆਵੈ ਮੋਖ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਸੋ ਪਾਵੈਗੋ ॥੩॥
> 
> सतिगुर परचै वसगति आवै मोख मुकति सो पावैगो ॥३॥
> Saṯgur parcẖai vasgaṯ āvai mokẖ mukaṯ so pāvaigo. ||3||
> ...


_True creator pleases, control established and salvation is achieved by such_


> ਓਅੰਕਾਰਿ ਏਕੋ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਭੁ ਏਕਸ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਵੈਗੋ ॥
> 
> ओअंकारि एको रवि रहिआ सभु एकस माहि समावैगो ॥
> O▫ankār eko rav rahi▫ā sabẖ ekas māhi samāvaigo.
> ...


_One creator present everywhere and such one is imbued in all_


> ਏਕੋ ਰੂਪੁ ਏਕੋ ਬਹੁ ਰੰਗੀ ਸਭੁ ਏਕਤੁ ਬਚਨਿ ਚਲਾਵੈਗੋ ॥੪॥
> 
> एको रूपु एको बहु रंगी सभु एकतु बचनि चलावैगो ॥४॥
> Ėko rūp eko baho rangī sabẖ ekaṯ bacẖan cẖalāvaigo. ||4||
> ...


_One such appearing as many directs all in own single directive_


> ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਏਕੋ ਏਕੁ ਪਛਾਤਾ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਇ ਲਖਾਵੈਗੋ ॥
> 
> गुरमुखि एको एकु पछाता गुरमुखि होइ लखावैगो ॥
> Gurmukẖ eko ek pacẖẖāṯā gurmukẖ ho▫e lakẖāvaigo.
> ...


_One near to the creator recognizing one and only, such near the creator will understand _


> ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਇ ਮਿਲੈ ਨਿਜ ਮਹਲੀ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦੁ ਬਜਾਵੈਗੋ ॥੫॥
> 
> गुरमुखि जाइ मिलै निज महली अनहद सबदु बजावैगो ॥५॥
> Gurmukẖ jā▫e milai nij mahlī anhaḏ sabaḏ bajāvaigo. ||5||
> ...


_One near to the creator meets in true abode and reverberates in true words symphony_


> ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਸਭ ਸਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੋਭਾ ਪਾਵੈਗੋ ॥
> 
> जीअ जंत सभ सिसटि उपाई गुरमुखि सोभा पावैगो ॥
> Jī▫a janṯ sabẖ sisat upā▫ī gurmukẖ sobẖā pāvaigo.
> ...


_All life forms and universe is created and the one near to the creator will receive honors_


> ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਭੇਟੇ ਕੋ ਮਹਲੁ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ਆਇ ਜਾਇ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈਗੋ ॥੬॥
> 
> बिनु गुर भेटे को महलु न पावै आइ जाइ दुखु पावैगो ॥६॥
> Bin gur bẖete ko mahal na pāvai ā▫e jā▫e ḏukẖ pāvaigo. ||6||
> ...


_Without realizing the creator the place is not found at such one’s feet and birth death miseries persist_


> ਅਨੇਕ ਜਨਮ ਵਿਛੁੜੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਿਲਾਵੈਗੋ ॥
> 
> अनेक जनम विछुड़े मेरे प्रीतम करि किरपा गुरू मिलावैगो ॥
> Anek janam vicẖẖuṛe mere parīṯam kar kirpā gurū milāvaigo.
> ...


_Many a lives one is lost from the loved one and the blessing of the creator’s teacher facilitates a union_


> ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਤ ਮਹਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਮਤਿ ਮਲੀਨ ਬਿਗਸਾਵੈਗੋ ॥੭॥
> 
> सतिगुर मिलत महा सुखु पाइआ मति मलीन बिगसावैगो ॥७॥
> Saṯgur milaṯ mahā sukẖ pā▫i▫ā maṯ malīn bigsāvaigo. ||7||
> ...


_Meeting the true creator much comfort comes, impure mind is rejuvenated_


> ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰਹੁ ਜਗਜੀਵਨ ਮੈ ਸਰਧਾ ਨਾਮਿ ਲਗਾਵੈਗੋ ॥
> 
> हरि हरि क्रिपा करहु जगजीवन मै सरधा नामि लगावैगो ॥
> Har har kirpā karahu jagjīvan mai sarḏẖā nām lagāvaigo.
> ...


_Please the sustainer of the living in the world, let me keep attached to your understanding_


> ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮੈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸਰਨਿ ਮਿਲਾਵੈਗੋ ॥੮॥੪॥
> 
> नानक गुरू गुरू है सतिगुरु मै सतिगुरु सरनि मिलावैगो ॥८॥४॥
> Nānak gurū gurū hai saṯgur mai saṯgur saran milāvaigo. ||8||4||
> ...


 _Guru Nanak, the Guru is such self, the eternal creator, I will find company through so eternal creator to such_



> *ESSENCE:  *Guru Ramdas ji in this sabad speak of human entanglements in  worldly living as well as bodily activities in physical, sensory and mind.  Guru ji emphasize the eternal true creator sustaining all and the need to realize such in living through understanding and maintaining closeness.  Guru ji identify hindrances of mental attitude and greed and say that even such issues can be favorably rectified if one seeks the one creator’s understanding and lives by such going forward.  Guru ji state that such people will find


Sat Sri Akal.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Dec 11, 2011)

AMBARSARIA Ji,
I feel that the message of the above composition of Gurbani is in 
reference to Future Tense.

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 11, 2011)

Veer Prakash.S.Bagga ji thanks for your comment.

I get sense from Gurbani that Guru ji's make no assumption about the completeness or deficiencies of a reader.

So when one for example reads the following tuk from the sabad,



> ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਸਭ ਸਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੋਭਾ ਪਾਵੈਗੋ ॥
> _Without realizing the creator the place is not found at such one’s feet and birth death miseries persist_


There are two ways of reading the above English sentence,

1.  For Example Prakash.S.Bagga ji:  I have realized the creator, so it does not apply to me so what Guru ji states I should be able to verify.  And once one does, move on to the next stage.

2.  For Example Ambarsaria:  I have not gotten understanding of the place so I need to work and then verify again and check.  Once so I can move on to the next stage.

The translation without using "Future Tense" actually does not perclude the future but suggests a check and the outcome that should be expected (future) on achievement of what Guru ji states.

Your comment is valid I don't disagree about the essence.  I am just describing how I have used my English style to encompass the same versus using "will, shall" in general everywhere.

Sat Sri Akal.

*PS:*  Prakash.S.Bagga ji I did the translation of this sabad rather quickly when we were deeply in discussion in the other thread and the following,




> [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%93%E0%A8%85%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF"]ਓਅੰਕਾਰਿ





> ਏਕੋ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਭੁ ਏਕਸ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਵੈਗੋ ॥
> 
> ओअंकारि एको रवि रहिआ सभु एकस माहि समावैगो ॥
> O▫ankār eko rav rahi▫ā sabẖ ekas māhi samāvaigo.
> ...


[/URL]


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 11, 2011)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> AMBARSARIA Ji,
> I feel that the message of the above composition of Gurbani is in
> reference to Future Tense.
> 
> Prakash.S.Bagga



Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Would you be kind enough to elaborate what you said above? Gurbani is to be lived with every breath we take, so if we can not use the goodness of Gurbani in the present then  how can we  and what are the reasons to save this for the future?

You claim:"above composition of Gurbani is in reference to Future Tense".

What made you come to that conclusion when you say it is in the future tense? Is it in the meaning of some Prophecy?

Can you also use the verses from the Shabad in your own words to express your thinking?

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh


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## prakash.s.bagga (Dec 11, 2011)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Prakash Singh ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> ...


 
I am sorry I am unable to satisfy you.My comment is valid as per Mr AMBARSARIA ji.
With regards
Prakash.s.Bagga


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 11, 2011)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> I am sorry I am unable to satisfy you.My comment is valid as per Mr AMBARSARIA ji.
> With regards
> Prakash.s.Bagga



Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by,"I am sorry I am unable to satisfy you.My comment is valid as per Mr AMBARSARIA ji".

First and foremost, I am not asking for any satisfaction but rather open to learn from your Gurmat wisdom, which I admire, and it is a duty of every Sikh to share this treasure with others rather than sitting on it. 

It is an open forum and if you claim something, again it is your duty as a Sikh to clarify what you said when requested.

I respect your deep knowledge in Gurbani. So you mean as a Sikh, it is not your duty to share Gurparsad with others that you have been bestowed with from Gurbani?

I will wait for your clarifications about your claim.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh


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## prakash.s.bagga (Dec 11, 2011)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Prakash Singh ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> ...


 
I thank you for your comments.As a GuR Sikh I understand my Duty too.
But I am afraid of your style .This is also my duty to see that I would not be offending any GuR  Sikh  from my side.
With regards
Prakash .S.Bagga


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 11, 2011)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> I thank you for your comments.As a GuR Sikh I understand my Duty too.
> But I am afraid of your style .This is also my duty to see that I would not be offending any GuR  Sikh  from my side.
> With regards
> Prakash .S.Bagga


Prakash.S.Bagga ji just so that I understood myself.  I conjectured to myself that in the last word(s) in each tuk the following (Example of one tuk from the sabad) is reflective of future verb usage,


ਮਿਲਾਵੈਗੋ,   i.e.  the ending with ਗੋ.
Appreciate if you can correct me or confirm if my understanding is correct.


Thank you.



Sat Sri Akal.

*PS:*  I believe ਗੇ, ਗਾ at the end of similar verbs also is reflective of future tense.  For example, *ਖਾਵਾਂਗਾ ਖਾਵਾਂਗੇ ਜਾਵਾਂਗਾ ਜਾਵਾਂਗੇ.*


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## prakash.s.bagga (Dec 11, 2011)

Ambarsaria said:


> Prakash.S.Bagga ji just so that I understood myself. I conjectured to myself that in the last word(s) in each tuk the following (Example of one tuk from the sabad) is reflective of future verb usage,
> 
> 
> ਮਿਲਾਵੈਗੋ, i.e. the ending with ਗੋ.
> ...


 
You are 100% right.
Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 11, 2011)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> I thank you for your comments.As a GuR Sikh I understand my Duty too.
> But I am afraid of your style .This is also my duty to see that I would not be offending any GuR  Sikh  from my side.
> With regards
> Prakash .S.Bagga



Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You are wrong in your assumption. A Gursikh never offends me. I learn from a Gursikh especially from a well studied Gursikh who prides himself in knowing Gurmat Grammar.

So, as I am not offended by any Gursikh, please fulfill your duty as one by explaining your claim. 

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 11, 2011)

Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

My 2 cent worth.

This Shabad has nothing to do with the future, but a very good Shabad explaining cause and effect because Gurbani is always lived in the present and it continues. If you do something, it has this effect. That is  why all words end with ਵੈਗੋ which is the effect unlike the future which you rightfully described "For example, ਖਾਵਾਂਗਾ ਖਾਵਾਂਗੇ ਜਾਵਾਂਗਾ ਜਾਵਾਂਗੇ."

The interesting part of this Shabad is that its theme/main idea is described in the beginning in Rahao because the Shabad starts with it.

ਮਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤਾ ਗਾਵੈਗੋ ॥ 
मनु हरि रंगि राता गावैगो ॥ 
Man har rang rāṯā gāvaigo. 
O mind, be attuned to His Love, and sing. 

When we are dyed (Cause) in the true colour of Ik Ong Kaar then we become part of this ocean. Our colour- actions, behaviour become like the One's. The colour- glow shows how our love is bursting out from the within.( Effect).

ਭੈ ਭੈ ਤ੍ਰਾਸ ਭਏ ਹੈ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਲਾਗਿ ਲਗਾਵੈਗੋ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
भै भै त्रास भए है निरमल गुरमति लागि लगावैगो ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ 
Bẖai bẖai ṯarās bẖa▫e hai nirmal gurmaṯ lāg lagāvaigo. ||1|| rahā▫o. 
The Fear of God makes me fearless and immaculate; I am dyed in the color of the Guru's Teachings. ||1||Pause|| 

Why is our love glowing? (Effect). Because the colour we are dyed into is of Gurmat (Cause), hence the fear of ignorance is dissipated.

*It is NOT the fear of God* as the literal translation indicates because the Mool Mantar explains that Ik Ong Kaar is Nirbhau and Nirvair. One who has no fear nor any enmity against anyone, is incapable of instilling fear in us but to the contrary. The Source instills love instead. 

That is why we, as Sikhs are "God" loving not "God" fearing. This is a very unique thing in Sikhi's pragmatic way of life. Love, all the way.

This Shabad has nothing to do with the future but everything to do with what happens when we learn to breed goodness within. The effect takes place in that very instant.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 11, 2011)

Tejwant Singh veer ji thank you for your post.

I have no issue with your explanation.

The cause and effect is a perfect way to describe the translation.  The only ambiguity or perhaps lack of understanding may stem from the fact that "whether one verifies the effect and hence learn of cause" (PAST) or "one does cause cause and see the effect (FUTURE).

For me it is not necessarily a strong future tense usage but in the understanding it can have application to past/present/future cause and past/present/future effect.  In a way time is not of the essence.

I suppose I kind of proved your point lol  wahmunda  :sippingcoffeemunda:

How you liked the following line as that was the prime reason for me to attempt to translate this sabad,

*ਓਅੰਕਾਰਿ **ਏਕੋ* ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਭੁ ਏਕਸ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਵੈਗੋ ॥ 

*ੴ (Ik▫oaŉkār)   ----  ਓਅੰਕਾਰਿ ਏਕੋ *

It also has the pronunciation that was contested.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 11, 2011)

Ambarsaria said:


> Tejwant Singh veer ji thank you for your post.
> 
> I have no issue with your explanation.
> 
> ...



Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

I saw that and I agree with you. I thought Prakash Singh was going to comment on IK.



> The only ambiguity or perhaps lack of understanding may stem from the fact that "whether one verifies the effect and hence learn of cause" (PAST) or "one does cause cause and see the effect (FUTURE).



It shows the means-cause- justify the ends-effect, not the other way around. Cause is not in the past but can happen the very moment we want which in this case is this very moment-the present and so is the effect which happens next, instantly.

Anyway coming back to the Rahao of the Shabad, Guru Sahib uses a great metaphor of colour-dyeing whose effect is instant. Not in some future. Of course anything that passes in the present becomes past and the next instant becomes the future but when we put a white cloth in a dye, we can see the change there and then instantly, not in some distant future.

The whole Shabad is based on this condition of cause and effect. It is one more wonderful lesson for all of us to understand, practice Gurbani so we can appreciate the only life we know about.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 11, 2011)

Tejwant Singh said:


> The whole Shabad is based on this condition of cause and effect. It is one more wonderful lesson for all of us to understand, practice Gurbani so we can appreciate the only life we know about.
> 
> Thanks & regards
> 
> Tejwant Singh


Veer Tejwant Singh ji is there any error in my translation as I believe I used future in one sentence.

Appreciate your comments and suggestions and I can correct and re-post so that any future readers don't get wrong interpretation.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 11, 2011)

Prakash.S.Bagga ji and Tejwant Singh ji I just discovered that *ਗੋ *by itself is a very fascinating study.*
*I am sharing below for discourse,*
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**[SIZE=-1]Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary[/SIZE]* [SIZE=-0] (1) ਭਵਿੱਖ, ਬੌਧਿਕ ਕਿਰਿਆ। (2) ਹੈ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਕੁੰਭਾਰ ਕੇ ਘਰ ਹਾਂਡੀ ਆਛੈ ਰਾਜਾ ਕੇ  ਘਰ ਸਾਂਡੀ ਗੋ॥ {ਟੋਡੀ ਨਾਮ, ੩, ੧:੧ (718)}। ਗਵਨੁ ਕਰੈਗੋ ਸਗਲੋ ਲੋਗਾ॥ {ਗਉ ੫, ਅਸ  ੪, ੪:੪ (237)}। [/SIZE] 

*[SIZE=-1]Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-English Dictionary[/SIZE]* [SIZE=-0]* Sk. n.   The earth, the world *[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-English Data provided by  Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA.[/SIZE]  

*[SIZE=-1]Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia[/SIZE]* [SIZE=-0] ਭਵਿਸ਼੍ਯਤ (ਆਉਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਸਮੇਂ) ਦਾ ਬੋਧਕ. ਗਾ. "ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਤ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਵੈਗੋ". (ਕਾਨ ਅਃ ਮਃ  ੪)। (2) ਹੈ. ਅਸ੍ਤਿ. "ਰਾਜਾ ਦੇ ਘਰ ਸਾਂਡੀਗੋ". (ਟੋਡੀ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ)। (3) ਸੰ. ਗਊ. ਗਾਂ।  (4) ਕਿਰਣ. ਰਸ਼੍*ਮਿ. "ਗੋ ਮਰੀਚਿ ਕਿਰਣੱਛਟਾ". (ਸਨਾਮਾ)। (5) ਇੰਦ੍ਰਿਯ। (6) ਬਾਣੀ।  (7) ਵੇਦ। (8) ਸਰਸ੍ਵਤੀ। (9) ਨੇਤ੍ਰ. ਦ੍ਰਿਸ੍ਟਿ। (10) ਪ੍ਰਿਥਿਵੀ। (11) ਬਿਜਲੀ।  (12) ਦਿਸ਼ਾ. ਤਰਫ। (13) ਮਾਤਾ। (14) ਜੀਭ. ਰਸਨਾ। (15) ਘੋੜਾ। (16) ਸੂਰਜ। (17)  ਚੰਦ੍ਰਮਾ। (18) ਤੀਰ। (19) ਗਵੈਯਾ. ਗਾਇਕ। (20) ਆਕਾਸ਼। (21) ਸ੍ਵਰਗ। ੨੨ ਜਲ। ੨੩  ਵਜ੍ਰ। ੨੪ ਖਗ. ਪੰਛੀ। ੨੫ ਬਿਰਛ। ੨੬ ਫ਼ਾ. __ ਵ੍ਯ- ਯਦ੍ਯਪਿ. ਅਗਰਚਿ। ੨੭ ਵਿ- ਕਥਨ  ਕਰਤਾ. ਕਹਿਣ ਵਾਲਾ. ਐਸੀ ਦਸ਼ਾ ਵਿੱਚ ਇਸ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਯੋਗ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੇ ਅੰਤ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜੈਸੇ  ਦਰੋਗ਼ਗੋ. ਬਦਗੋ। ੨੮ ਗੁਫ਼ਤਨ ਦਾ ਅਮਰ. ਤੂੰ ਕਹੁ. ਕਥਨ ਕਰ. [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sat Sri Akal.*


*


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## prakash.s.bagga (Dec 11, 2011)

Ambarsaria said:


> Tejwant Singh veer ji thank you for your post.
> 
> I have no issue with your explanation.
> 
> ...


 
AMBARSARIA Ji,
Here one can see that the word ONKAAR is not proper NOUN.It is Transitive for EKO .
I think it means EKO within ONKAAR.
Just a  grammatical consideration of the words.
Prakash.s.Bagga
Prakash.s.


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 12, 2011)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> AMBARSARIA Ji,
> Here one can see that the word ONKAAR is not proper NOUN.It is Transitive for EKO .
> I think it means EKO within ONKAAR.
> Just a  grammatical consideration of the words.
> ...


Veer Prakash.S.Bagga ji I would prefer if such you can be raised in the other thread, if you want.  I mentioned it only since no one commented on it.

What you think of the other post above about *ਗੋ* .
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/37723-man-har-rang-r-g-vaigo-2.html#post157930

I kind of came across it by chance as I was looking up something for Sukhmani Sahib.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 12, 2011)

Ambarsaria said:


> Prakash.S.Bagga ji and Tejwant Singh ji I just discovered that *ਗੋ *by itself is a very fascinating study.*
> *I am sharing below for discourse,*
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> **[SIZE=-1]Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary[/SIZE]* [SIZE=-0] (1) ਭਵਿੱਖ, ਬੌਧਿਕ ਕਿਰਿਆ। (2) ਹੈ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਕੁੰਭਾਰ ਕੇ ਘਰ ਹਾਂਡੀ ਆਛੈ ਰਾਜਾ ਕੇ  ਘਰ ਸਾਂਡੀ ਗੋ॥ {ਟੋਡੀ ਨਾਮ, ੩, ੧:੧ (718)}। ਗਵਨੁ ਕਰੈਗੋ ਸਗਲੋ ਲੋਗਾ॥ {ਗਉ ੫, ਅਸ  ੪, ੪:੪ (237)}। [/SIZE]
> ...



Amabarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

Excactly what I said. It is cause and affect which happens instantly, especially in the Rahao part of the original Shabad. The Effect is always related to the cause. Nothing is in the distant future. The effect is immediate, however depending on the thing, the result may manifest outwardly later. 

Thanks for sharing this interesting thing and it shows that ]ਭਵਿਸ਼੍ਯਤ (ਆਉਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਸਮੇਂ) does not mean anything way out in the future. In Gurbani Past,Present and Future are attached to each other like pearls in a necklace, one after the other especially in the Shabad that you interpreted in a beautiful manner.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 12, 2011)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> AMBARSARIA Ji,
> Here one can see that the word ONKAAR is not proper* NOUN.It is Transitive for EKO* .
> I think it means EKO within ONKAAR.
> Just a  grammatical consideration of the words.
> ...



Prakash Singh ji,

Guru fateh.

As mentioned before there is nothing called *transitive noun *as you keep on insisting again and again but there are transitive and intransitive verbs. 

So, please try once more with your explanation but this time with the correct grammar. I even offered my help to share with you the difference between these two verbs and you admitted that you were wrong thinking about a *transitive noun* but you have used the same thing again to prove something that does not exist.

Onkaar *IS* a proper noun. it means the *ONLY ONE SOURCE* of ALL there is.You are making things up again.How many *Onkaars* do you know that Gurbani talks about?

It is sad to know that you keep on twisting things when challenged as usual which is a shame.

You tried to play the same trick when challenged in the other thread where I proved you were wrong about the compound noun with preposition because you called it an adjective and then named it a transitive noun. I posted the Shabads with different examples and you stuck to one word Pramaatma translated by Prof. Sahib Singh and used it as a diversionary tactic from our specific topic from which we were trying to learn. Sadly, you never admitted your fault which is a shame.

Just for you to understand the difference, following is the definition:

Proper Noun Definition:
A noun belonging to the class of words used as names for unique individuals, events, or places. Contrast with common noun.

http://grammar.about.com/od/pq/g/propnounterm.htm

Please do not make things up especially as far as Gurbani is concerned. Admit when you do not know. We are all Sikhs and we are in here together to learn. 

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## prakash.s.bagga (Dec 12, 2011)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Prakash Singh ji,
> 
> Guru fateh.
> 
> ...


 
TEJWANT SINGh Ji,

You can see that if the word ONKAAR was to be Proper NOUN then the word wouldhave been with a Matra of AUKAD as ONKAARu.
There is very limited use of the word ONKAAR and that too as PLURAL .
Try to understand SANSKRIT Grammar for transitives as NOUN,PRONOUN,VERB or ADVERB.This is not so in normal grammar you seem to be familiar.
With regards
PRAKASh.S BAGGA

P.S I just recollect that the meaning of the word ONKAAR is forDHUN(i) that is for SOUND.   Does Gurbani connects us to SOUND or LIGHT.?
.


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 12, 2011)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> TEJWANT SINGh Ji,
> 
> You can see that if the word ONKAAR was to be Proper NOUN then the word wouldhave been with a Matra of AUKAD as ONKAARu.
> There is very limited use of the word ONKAAR and that too as PLURAL .
> ...



Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh. 

OK. I will agree with you for the sake of this argument that ONKAAR is NOT a proper noun but a common noun which means there are more than one ONKAAR in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji according to you. Please share the Gurbani Shabads with multiple ONKAARS, and btw, I know Sanskrit grammar which I discussed here sometimes ago  in which I also mentioned that the verb conjugation of Sanskrit and Latin are one and the same. Many words in Latin are very similar to Sanskrit. The reason I am sharing this is because I have also studied Latin and was talking to a Latin scholar about it. This indicates that Sanskrit is older than Latin which he agreed with. No one knows how they are related to each other but there is a platonic relationship as far as grammar of both is concerned.

I will wait for the Shabads from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru, where there are several ONKAARS as a common noun according to you.

Please explain what you claim. Just claiming in not enough. You have to explain in a grammatical manner. Your justifications of Matra of AUKAD do not apply here but common sense does which grammar helps in creating because according to your claim there are many ONKAARS which is simply false.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Ambarsaria (Dec 12, 2011)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Amabarsaria ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> ...


Veer Tejwant Singh ji thanks for your response.

Veer ji that is exactly the sense I got when I was reading it and translating it.  I came across the *ਗੋ *part as I was doing more translation in Sukhmani Sahib and cross checking some words.

To some extent this Grammar thing is little bit of a distraction.  To claim a Gurbani with as wide a participation in terms of time frames from Baba Farid ji, Bhagat Kabir ji to Guru Tegh Bahadar ji's times is a little bit of stretch and dis-service.  Sanskrit was not a course people needed to take before their writings could be in SGGS.  I find it a bit non-sensical at times to be blunt.

Words of various languages yes but SGGS is Punjabi.

I am sorry I did not mean to start this dialog in this fashion.

I hope my original translation at the start of this thread is OK.  I just want to hear that and then this thread goes into hibernation unless a younger person wants some help, which I always try to give.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 12, 2011)

Ambarsaria said:


> Veer Tejwant Singh ji thanks for your response.
> 
> Veer ji that is exactly the sense I got when I was reading it and translating it.  I came across the *ਗੋ *part as I was doing more translation in Sukhmani Sahib and cross checking some words.
> 
> ...



Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

Well said. 

Your translations are wonderful. They give the right message to all the readers. Grammar is for us because we enjoy Gurbani from all different aspects. Many people are satisfied and get Anand by just reading the literal translation because it is poetic. They do not think much about the prose.That is why your translations of other Shabads and Sukhmani are great help to many. It gives all of us the chance to ponder deeper about what our Gurus are trying to say.

I have no idea why Prakash Singh ji has only Sanskrit in mind for the whole SGGS. Sanskrit seems to be his only reference which is just being parochial minded and it makes him contradict himself again and again. According to him ONKAAR is a common noun which means there are multiple ONKAARS in the SGGS, not just ONE.

I hope he becomes open minded so we can all learn from each other.

Regards

Tejwant Singh


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