# Questioning/Losing Faith



## CuriousMan (May 4, 2014)

Recently I've been questioning religion and whether it is true.

I like Sikhism and what it stands for but I cannot get my head around some concepts.

All religions were formed when people did not know a much about the universe and how it was created. I do still think that Guru Nanak was special because he did state that there were multiple planets, galaxies etc.
He also said that the universe has been created and destroyed multiple times, which fits in with the Big Bang and Big Crunch theories.

I have the following doubts.

1. No religion has accurately explained the origin of life on Earth and backed it up with evidence.

2. Why would God create things like Dinosaurs and so much before humans? If humans are the only ones that can achieve mukti, why waste time creating dinosaurs and other ancient animals, why not create humans as one of the first lifeforms. The sikh scriptures do not mention dinosaurs.

3. You are born into a religion, if I was born 2000 years ago in Norway I would believe in Thor and Odin.

4. Countries where religion plays a big part in people's lives like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Middle East, Africa, South America are generally full of poverty. Whereas in places like Western Europe, Japan, religion is not important at all. Guess which countries are more successful and tolerant.

5. Why was Guruship kept in the same family from Guru Ram Das onwards? I cannot imagine Guru Nanak giving the Guruship to a child like it was given to Guru Har Krishan or a child Guru Gobind. Even though these Gurus were great men who did a lot for us it seems like nepotism. 

6. Sorry if this offends people but Guru Nanak was against rituals, so why is it mandatory to drink Amrit, carry a kirpan, grow our hair. 
We say we grow our hair because we don't want to change the form God made us in. So if we are born with an illness do we just leave it or do we keep it? We are a continually evolving species and we may one day evolve into one that has no hair.

7. Guru Nanak said if you're a Muslim be a good muslim, if you're a hindu be a good hindu, yet he criticised both religions. Even I can see that both religions have big problems. Islam with it's misogyny, violence, heaven and hell, virgins in heaven. Hinduism in it's belief in multiple gods, fairy tales, caste system. He should have been more critical.

8. Why worship this creator. Maybe it exists but how do you know it wants us to worship it and think about it all of the time.

9. Why has no religious 'prophet' discovered something amazing like Electricity or flying. These were supposed to be all knowing people but they did not help humanity in scientific advancement.

10. People turn to God when things are down and when going through depression. I am guilty of this as well but as soon as the storm clears and my rational thought returns I return to doubt.

11. There are so many religions in this world and most of them have only been around for 5000 years, whereas humans have been around a lot longer. People have worshiped all kinds of things throughout humanity, from the sun, to idols, demi gods, one god and now worshiping no god is rising.

12. They could have sent out a big message by giving the guruship to a lower caste person, rather than keeping it in the high Khatri caste. They could have married out of caste. It would have sent out an even bigger message.

13. Karma system has flaws. So if you are bad you are given a bad next life, but who cares, it's not like you will remember it. I think it's downright cruel to say that disabled people are born that way because of bad karma. Why don't we just stop helping the poor people, after all it is due to bad karma that they are born that way. 
Generally the more money people have the more they succumb to vices, so 
is it better to be born poor and believe in god or be born into a rich family where you are more likely do 'bad things'

14. Reincarnation. There are lines in the SGGS that if you think of your family in your last breath you will come back as a pig. Well then I guess a huge proportion of people who die come back as pigs because that is what a lot of people think of when they die. Why is it wrong to think of your family when dying?

15. Yugas make no sense. We are supposed to believe in the yugas and we are supposed to be in Kalyug. Yet in the last 100 years we have seen the most advancement in human history compared to any other time in humanity. We are supoosed to believe that people lived a lot longer in the past, like for hundreds of years. I highly doubt this is true. 


Sorry if this offends people but I cannot live with this confusion.
I think there is some kind of higher power but no religion has explained it. No one can truly know until they die.

Can anyone answer these questions/doubts.


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## Parma (May 4, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*



CuriousMan said:


> Recently I've been questioning religion and whether it is true.
> 
> I like Sikhism and what it stands for but I cannot get my head around some concepts.
> 
> ...


!


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## CuriousMan (May 4, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*

Thanks for your reply brother. However with your answer to number 6 you make the latter Sikh gurus sound more political than spiritual.

I thought the purpose of Sikhi is to end the cycle of rebirth and join with god, not just to find inner peace.

I wonder that Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Guru Tegh Bahadur, Sahibzade were such great holy people who meditated a lot but they faced a gruesome demise. I thought by mediating such things could be avoided.

I also sometimes think maybe Guru Nanak was a truly divine man and the Gurus after him although being great were not at the same spiritual level and introduced rituals.

It would be great if these religious texts were just straight to the point without poetry and speaking in riddles.


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## Parma (May 4, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*

Miri and Piri in Sikhism it is all there on how to run a civilized society they were spiritual and political, they are quiet often both the same thing learning how to live and administer life. Sikhism was one of the first systems to enshrine equal rights to females, the red cross, Free kitchen loads of concepts. You would have to take an in depth view into the religion really. God is indescribable in the Guru Granth Sahib ji it says even if I say thousands, and thousands of words in your honour they still would not be enough to describe you. It is a theory like you know the world exists but just one piece of land alone does not create the earth. Be at one with the earth, if you can sort of understand that theory then you will start understanding the concept of god, and how being at peace or being nice to the earth would then lead to a more fulfilling life for you I'm using the earth as an example god is greater then that so if you grasp and become one with the creator you gain a peace which no one can teach you it is a self fulfilling power of love. 
Just because you gain the power to understand doesn't mean you can stop all things. You gain knowledge to stop and do nearly anything but then you live by a code of morals the others do not adhere to so that is what stopped them really otherwise if they used there dark side of themselves there would have been no limit on there achievements, but they would be no better then the oppressors and then what was the point in them. Its like saying your bad, then going straight ahead and doing the same thing to resolve your issues they where men for humanity not self gain that was the real problem, if they only wanted self gain they would have ruled the world. When you gain so much knowledge nothing can stop you but god, they realised that knowledge and realised where it could take them, they did not come to take a lesson, they came to give a lesson. I wish I was born then for I would have stood side by side with such honest men to the end. Ordinary Men don't stand like that you see they stand for reason for themselves. Not honesty justice or truth, and that is why his kids where martyred, not enough honest people in the world, and it hurts, shame!


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## Sherdil (May 4, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*



curiousman said:


> recently i've been questioning religion and whether it is true.
> 
> I like sikhism and what it stands for but i cannot get my head around some concepts.
> 
> ...


0


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## Ishna (May 4, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*

Hello CuriousMan, and welcome to SPN.

It always puzzles me when people think religion = science.  Science is science, and religion is religion.  We don't apply the dramatic arts to dietary nutrition, so why do we try to apply religious philosophy to astrophysics?

On that note...



> 1. No religion has accurately explained the origin of life on Earth and backed it up with evidence.



Why should religion?  Perhaps it's best left to science.



> 2. Why would God create things like Dinosaurs and so much before humans? If humans are the only ones that can achieve mukti, why waste time creating dinosaurs and other ancient animals, why not create humans as one of the first lifeforms. The sikh scriptures do not mention dinosaurs.



Because It can.  Because evolution.  Because it's fun to make jokes about T-rex's small arms.   Sri Guru Granth Sahib is about spirituality/philosophy, not biological history.  Dinosaurs simply weren't considered relevant to talk about.



> 3. You are born into a religion, if I was born 2000 years ago in Norway I would believe in Thor and Odin.



What is the question here?  People are born into cultures, and religion is part of culture.  Sometimes people reject the religion of their culture and seek others.



> 4. Countries where religion plays a big part in people's lives like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Middle East, Africa, South America are generally full of poverty. Whereas in places like Western Europe, Japan, religion is not important at all. Guess which countries are more successful and tolerant.



Again I think this is more to do with culture than religion.  If we consider the period in history when the Islamic civilization reached across southern Europe, I understand it was a very high standard of living (for the times).  I'm not convinced of the link between religion and poverty.



> 5. Why was Guruship kept in the same family from Guru Ram Das onwards? I cannot imagine Guru Nanak giving the Guruship to a child like it was given to Guru Har Krishan or a child Guru Gobind. Even though these Gurus were great men who did a lot for us it seems like nepotism.



I can't answer this one.



> 6. Sorry if this offends people but Guru Nanak was against rituals, so why is it mandatory to drink Amrit, carry a kirpan, grow our hair.
> We say we grow our hair because we don't want to change the form God made us in. So if we are born with an illness do we just leave it or do we keep it? We are a continually evolving species and we may one day evolve into one that has no hair.



For discussions of kesh you're best searching the forum for the threads that have already done the topic upside down, inside out and back-to-front.

Regards to rituals, I agree with you.  When looking at Sikhi we see the turmoil in Panjab at the time, and can understand why Sikhs had to be made distinct amongst the people.  The Khalsa army has a solid, logical foundation.  Nowadays I'm not so sure, but that's just my personal opinion.  I look forward to other replies on this particular question.



> 7. Guru Nanak said if you're a Muslim be a good muslim, if you're a hindu be a good hindu, yet he criticised both religions. Even I can see that both religions have big problems. Islam with it's misogyny, violence, heaven and hell, virgins in heaven. Hinduism in it's belief in multiple gods, fairy tales, caste system. He should have been more critical.



I'm not one to tell Guru Nanak what he should or shouldn't have done. 

To my mind, Guru Nanak wasn't inventing a new religion, he was stripping life down to the basic core truths, and these are common to all people, no matter what their outward religion is.  Guru Nanak was expressing a philosophy and a state of mind based on his understanding of life and the Creator.



> 8. Why worship this creator. Maybe it exists but how do you know it wants us to worship it and think about it all of the time.



It's about human needs, not the Creator's needs.  Why do you think about the person you love all the time? 



> 9. Why has no religious 'prophet' discovered something amazing like Electricity or flying. These were supposed to be all knowing people but they did not help humanity in scientific advancement.



They have discovered amazing things in their field of spirituality, philosophy, religion, psychology, social sciences.  

When was the last time a science professor invented a way to better manage Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? (random example only)



> 10. People turn to God when things are down and when going through depression. I am guilty of this as well but as soon as the storm clears and my rational thought returns I return to doubt.



Because it's human nature to reach out for something when you feel like you're losing control.  Some people find comfort in faith.  Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji talks about the problem of forgetting when everything is good again, which is why we need to remind ourselves, which helps us to prepare for the next storm in this whirlwind of life.



> 11. There are so many religions in this world and most of them have only been around for 5000 years, whereas humans have been around a lot longer. People have worshiped all kinds of things throughout humanity, from the sun, to idols, demi gods, one god and now worshiping no god is rising.



Yep.  So is "spiritual but not religious".  Humans still have fuzzy psychological needs that religions and philosophies address.  To me, being in connection with what I believe in is important to me and Sikhi provides the necessary framework.



> 12. They could have sent out a big message by giving the guruship to a lower caste person, rather than keeping it in the high Khatri caste. They could have married out of caste. It would have sent out an even bigger message.



Yes.  I guess they did what they did for their own reasons.  Like it would have been nice to have some bani by a female bhagat, but oh well.



> 13. Karma system has flaws. So if you are bad you are given a bad next life, but who cares, it's not like you will remember it. I think it's downright cruel to say that disabled people are born that way because of bad karma. Why don't we just stop helping the poor people, after all it is due to bad karma that they are born that way. Generally the more money people have the more they succumb to vices, so
> is it better to be born poor and believe in god or be born into a rich family where you are more likely do 'bad things'



Yes, karma as you've put it is an odd system, and you won't find much argument for this interpretation of karma in Sikhi!!!  Please check out some of our other threads on karma and you'll find the concept redrawn if not entirely thrown out in the Gurbani.



> 14. Reincarnation. There are lines in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that if you think of your family in your last breath you will come back as a pig. Well then I guess a huge proportion of people who die come back as pigs because that is what a lot of people think of when they die. Why is it wrong to think of your family when dying?



See reply to question 13 but -karma +reincarnation.



> 15. Yugas make no sense. We are supposed to believe in the yugas and we are supposed to be in Kalyug. Yet in the last 100 years we have seen the most advancement in human history compared to any other time in humanity. We are supoosed to believe that people lived a lot longer in the past, like for hundreds of years. I highly doubt this is true.



Yugas are states of mind, not physical time periods.

Sorry I can't be more wordy, I've run out of lunch break!


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## Harry Haller (May 5, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*

I do not speak for Sikhism, only myself, so the following is my own opinion rather than a definitive answer



> 1. No religion has accurately explained the origin of life on Earth and backed it up with evidence.



Sikhism is not a religion, it is a way of life, as my sis says above, best left to scientists



> 2. Why would God create things like Dinosaurs and so much before humans? If humans are the only ones that can achieve mukti, why waste time creating dinosaurs and other ancient animals, why not create humans as one of the first lifeforms. The sikh scriptures do not mention dinosaurs.



Firstly, you mention god in the abrahamic sense, as a bearded fellow in sandals who goes about creating stuff and destroying stuff, that is not my view, in Sikhism god is an energy, a force, and is in us all, and in everything. 'god' merely set the game in motion, the game itself is down to us, down to evolution, and the state of the world is once again down to us and how the game has been played. I do not  believe we are here to achieve mukti, I believe that every day we get the chance to be in mukti, that is our choice. 



> 3. You are born into a religion, if I was born 2000 years ago in Norway I would believe in Thor and Odin.



No one is born a Sikh, anyone who is, I find, struggles with the basic foundations of Sikhism due to lack of knowledge and ignorance, most of the people I consider to be knowledgeable about Sikhism were either attracted to it later in life, or born Sikhs who then rejected the Vedic/Abrahamic nonsense they were brought up with and attempted to search for the truth.




> 4. Countries where religion plays a big part in people's lives like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Middle East, Africa, South America are generally full of poverty. Whereas in places like Western Europe, Japan, religion is not important at all. Guess which countries are more successful and tolerant.



Ask your average Hindu how many gods they have, they are likely to say 'quite a few', ask your average Muslim about heaven they may talk about virgins serving food and huge palaces, and ask your average Sikh, they are likely to say that Sikhism is a mix of Hinduism and Islam, all three answers are wrong, Hindus ultimately believe in one God, Muslims believe heaven to be a place of bliss, and use palaces as a metaphor, and Sikhism has nothing to do with either Islam or Hinduism, so, the East is not very religious at all, just very traditional and ritualistic. 



> 5. Why was Guruship kept in the same family from Guru Ram Das onwards? I cannot imagine Guru Nanak giving the Guruship to a child like it was given to Guru Har Krishan or a child Guru Gobind. Even though these Gurus were great men who did a lot for us it seems like nepotism.



Maybe age is no indication of wisdom, maybe even a child can grasp the very simple notion that god is around us and in everything, and that we live to serve Creation.One does not have to be aged with white hair to know the answers, maybe Sikhism is so simple that anyone at all can grasp the foundations.



> 6. Sorry if this offends people but Guru Nanak was against rituals, so why is it mandatory to drink Amrit, carry a kirpan, grow our hair.
> We say we grow our hair because we don't want to change the form God made us in. So if we are born with an illness do we just leave it or do we keep it? We are a continually evolving species and we may one day evolve into one that has no hair.



It is not mandatory, the SRM, the handbook to being a Sikh, describes a Sikh in very simple terms 

The Definition of Sikh :

   Article I
Any human being who faithfully believes in
i. One Immortal Being, 
ii. Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Sahib to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib,
iii. The Guru Granth Sahib, 
iv. The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and
 v. the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh

The tenth Guru took this to another level, the Khalsa, the true, a bit like the A team, or the SAS, and with every elite organisation, they need to be visual, people need to know who they are, now some people can go on about why hair, why kirpan etc etc, for me, the  fact that the tenth Guru thought it was a good idea is enough for me, do I have long hair and a kirpan, no I do not, but when that day comes when it feels like a good idea, I will embrace it, but not for myself, for the people round me to know that this fellow is Khalsa, he can help us, be it changing a tyre, feeding a beggar, defending a rape victim, whatever, that fellow over there, in the turban and beard, he will help, he is Khalsa, now what gets my goat are the many that look like Khalsa but are none of the sort, that is why, in my opinion, you cannot aspire to be Khalsa, merely accept the challenge  when the time is right.

By the time most Sikhs have found the answers, they find the calling to grow hair, wear a kirpan, it is done with love and happiness, not foisted on you, or done for reasons of ego and pride.



> 7. Guru Nanak said if you're a Muslim be a good muslim, if you're a hindu be a good hindu, yet he criticised both religions. Even I can see that both religions have big problems. Islam with it's misogyny, violence, heaven and hell, virgins in heaven. Hinduism in it's belief in multiple gods, fairy tales, caste system. He should have been more critical.



Guru Nanak believed in the 'one' just like all other religions, however time has corrupted, and people are mired in ritual and habit, to my mind he never criticised anyone, merely showed people that they were drifting away from the one, and into fable and stories, all he did was hold up a mirror and ask people who they were, delve deeper into both religions and you will see that all the above facets you mention can be construed as red herrings, a Hindu and a Muslim contributed to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.....



> 8. Why worship this creator. Maybe it exists but how do you know it wants us to worship it and think about it all of the time.



Err I don't, and neither do I pray, the Creator that I see in everyone and everything speaks to me and interacts with me every day, I do not need to mumble in quiet rooms, or bow to pictures, or take a random quote from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and live my day by it, all the quotes in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are good, the key is learning what is in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and living by it, Creator does not suffer from an ego, Creator does not wish to be worshipped, Creation should be respected and a consonance should be reached with all Creation. I do not think of Creator at all, however, Creation is in front of my very nose, I can interact with this at any time.



> 9. Why has no religious 'prophet' discovered something amazing like Electricity or flying. These were supposed to be all knowing people but they did not help humanity in scientific advancement.



I cannot speak for other prophets, but Sikh prophets never made out to be all knowing, they were all accepting maybe, and they knew the limits of what a human being could know, all perceptive, and all knowing about the human condition, they knew about living, about interacting and about how to play the game of life. They left the rest to the scientists and the artists. 



> 10. People turn to God when things are down and when going through depression. I am guilty of this as well but as soon as the storm clears and my rational thought returns I return to doubt.



Not me, I find truthful living gives you better circumstances so that depression is sidestepped, most depression is down to seeds we sow ourselves, instead of dealing with bad crops, simply stop planting bad seeds, for things that happen to you that have nothing to do with you, then acceptance is the key, acceptance of situation? no, acceptance of the fight to deal with the situation. Depression does not hep anyone, that is why as Sikhs we embrace Chardi kala, high spirits, optimism, belief in ourselves, belief that the truth will win, will vanquish, and if it does not, then we will die trying. 



> 11. There are so many religions in this world and most of them have only been around for 5000 years, whereas humans have been around a lot longer. People have worshiped all kinds of things throughout humanity, from the sun, to idols, demi gods, one god and now worshiping no god is rising.



worshipping no god is good, that works for me



> 12. They could have sent out a big message by giving the guruship to a lower caste person, rather than keeping it in the high Khatri caste. They could have married out of caste. It would have sent out an even bigger message.



Sikhism is not about sending out messages like some latter day spin doctor, it is simply about the truth



> 13. Karma system has flaws. So if you are bad you are given a bad next life, but who cares, it's not like you will remember it. I think it's downright cruel to say that disabled people are born that way because of bad karma. Why don't we just stop helping the poor people, after all it is due to bad karma that they are born that way.
> 
> Generally the more money people have the more they succumb to vices, so
> is it better to be born poor and believe in god or be born into a rich family where you are more likely do 'bad things'



Sikhs don't believe in the karma system, when your dead, your dead



> 14. Reincarnation. There are lines in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that if you think of your family in your last breath you will come back as a pig. Well then I guess a huge proportion of people who die come back as pigs because that is what a lot of people think of when they die. Why is it wrong to think of your family when dying?



Sikhs don't believe in reincarnation, when your dead, your dead, the pig quote needs to be contemplated further, but that is for another thread.



> 15. Yugas make no sense. We are supposed to believe in the yugas and we are supposed to be in Kalyug. Yet in the last 100 years we have seen the most advancement in human history compared to any other time in humanity. We are supoosed to believe that people lived a lot longer in the past, like for hundreds of years. I highly doubt this is true.



Sorry I don't even know what a yuga is, are we supposed to believe in them? are they more important than truthful living and thinking? am I missing something huge in Sikhism?,



> Sorry if this offends people but I cannot live with this confusion.
> I think there is some kind of higher power but no religion has explained it. No one can truly know until they die.



no there is no kind of higher power, no it is pointless begging this higher power for treats, in Sikhism there is only the truth, thats it, either live by it, or don't, its that simple


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## angrisha (May 5, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*



CuriousMan said:


> Recently I've been questioning religion and whether it is true.
> 
> I like Sikhism and what it stands for but I cannot get my head around some concepts.
> 
> ...



 As you can already see there are many different answers to all your questions, and all of them are equally correct. 



> 1. No religion has accurately explained the origin of life on Earth and backed it up with evidence.



Science hasnt done this either, and Ive never really understood why this was necessary to my life currently... 



> 2. Why would God create things like Dinosaurs and so much before humans? If humans are the only ones that can achieve mukti, why waste time creating dinosaurs and other ancient animals, why not create humans as one of the first lifeforms. The sikh scriptures do not mention dinosaurs.



IMO this idea of God as a creator like your describing is a very Abrahamic religious view. I.E god created the world in 7 days kind of idea. Why things happened the way they did, I dont think it really matters... all life comes from one source, no one is above or below any other life form... we all just are, apart of the same universe. Personally, as Ive processed my own life I envy animals because they are always simply connected and they dont have all the extra mental noise we humans do. 



> 3. You are born into a religion, if I was born 2000 years ago in Norway I would believe in Thor and Odin.



And that would be perfectly fine.... you can also be born with out religion....




> 4. Countries where religion plays a big part in people's lives like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Middle East, Africa, South America are generally full of poverty. Whereas in places like Western Europe, Japan, religion is not important at all. Guess which countries are more successful and tolerant.



I feel like this has been answered well by others.... I dont thinK i have anything more to add



> 5. Why was Guruship kept in the same family from Guru Ram Das onwards? I cannot imagine Guru Nanak giving the Guruship to a child like it was given to Guru Har Krishan or a child Guru Gobind. Even though these Gurus were great men who did a lot for us it seems like nepotism.



I dont think age really matters when it comes to your soul.... being in an older body doesnt mean you are any more enlightened than a 3 year old. Sometimes, kids are even more true to themselves than adults area. The faith in the guruship comes from the very foundation of sikhism.... its all with in hukam ....



> 6. Sorry if this offends people but Guru Nanak was against rituals, so why is it mandatory to drink Amrit, carry a kirpan, grow our hair.
> We say we grow our hair because we don't want to change the form God made us in. So if we are born with an illness do we just leave it or do we keep it? We are a continually evolving species and we may one day evolve into one that has no hair.



I dont think drinking Amrit is a ritual, I think its more of a deceleration to be committed to a sikhi. Once you take Amrit you are choosing to follow and live life a certain way. I heard an explanation of why we done the 5 K's.... its not even so ppl can see us and recognize someone as an sikhi, but because through these symbols we can be reminded of the presence of SatGuru who is always with us. Again, all of this worn outside your body, and none of it goes with you in the end... So it can be argued that ultimately it doesn't matter. 

I also read something on this very forum about kesh (and forgive me i dont remember the exact words or who said it), where they compared hair growing to hukam in the sense that why fight the growth its going to come back anyways. 

Illness also has medicine, where you body can be healed of (or not depending on the illness).... illness is something that can be changed and is contained with in your body... kesh on the other hand really has no need to be changed.... it is not something that needs to be healed ... if you keep it or not is really up to you.... 





> 7. Guru Nanak said if you're a Muslim be a good muslim, if you're a hindu be a good hindu, yet he criticised both religions. Even I can see that both religions have big problems. Islam with it's misogyny, violence, heaven and hell, virgins in heaven. Hinduism in it's belief in multiple gods, fairy tales, caste system. He should have been more critical.



In my belief of what I read, if you choose to live your life in accordance with a particular faith then you should follow that faith well. Critism isnt of the religion, but the necessity of rituals (rituals have there place if done with meaning and intention, but empty rituals are just that empty). GuruJi states there is no one path to follow.... if you in your heart align yourself with a particular faith follow it well with in your heart. 

I can comment on what I think Guru Nanak was thinking, only what I believe to be true. 



> 8. Why worship this creator. Maybe it exists but how do you know it wants us to worship it and think about it all of the time.



You dont need to worship anything, I dont understand this concept of worship either. You also dont need to think about the 'creator' all the time.... In my mind, God is within everything and anything and that includes you. At its core, there is nothing to think about.....



> 9. Why has no religious 'prophet' discovered something amazing like Electricity or flying. These were supposed to be all knowing people but they did not help humanity in scientific advancement.



I dont understand why this was a requriment of anyone.... why havent any of us helped in scientific advancement? 
Just as there are very significant ppl in spiritual/religious realms, we have also been gifted with very significant ppl in the scientific realm.... neither one is more or less important in the advancement of humanity.... if anything they go hand in hand with each other



> 10. People turn to God when things are down and when going through depression. I am guilty of this as well but as soon as the storm clears and my rational thought returns I return to doubt.



The SGGS teaches us (or at least me) that there is a place beyond this duality, that the highs and lows of life are all with in our perspective of the situation. There is a place where no matter what happens we stay perfectly content. But, my question to you is... if something is true for you in your lows why would it suddenly not be in your highs? Maybe your actually not turning to God but running from the fear of failure.... 



> 11. There are so many religions in this world and most of them have only been around for 5000 years, whereas humans have been around a lot longer. People have worshiped all kinds of things throughout humanity, from the sun, to idols, demi gods, one god and now worshiping no god is rising.



There is a difference between religion and God... majority of people believe that there is an expression of something greater than themselves. Religion, worship and God get lumped together when they are very very different concepts. You do not need one to have the other 2. 



> 12. They could have sent out a big message by giving the guruship to a lower caste person, rather than keeping it in the high Khatri caste. They could have married out of caste. It would have sent out an even bigger message.



How did any of that actually affect the message



> 13. Karma system has flaws. So if you are bad you are given a bad next life, but who cares, it's not like you will remember it. I think it's downright cruel to say that disabled people are born that way because of bad karma. Why don't we just stop helping the poor people, after all it is due to bad karma that they are born that way.
> Generally the more money people have the more they succumb to vices, so
> is it better to be born poor and believe in god or be born into a rich family where you are more likely do 'bad things'



I dont claim to understand the laws of Karma, I dont actually think karma exists. My understanding of what ive read, karma is simply action and reaction... the sggs speaks of a realm above that as well so therefore we are not bound by our actions. Perspective plays a large role, you only can control your actions and how you choose to be in this world in a day to day way.... I do not have the ability to judge or criticize anyone else way of life, I dont think there is any better or worse than it just is. 



> 14. Reincarnation. There are lines in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that if you think of your family in your last breath you will come back as a pig. Well then I guess a huge proportion of people who die come back as pigs because that is what a lot of people think of when they die. Why is it wrong to think of your family when dying?



Please quote what you are describing..... I again don't know about reincarnation, im not convinced I believe in it either.... so I wont comment 


> 15. Yugas make no sense. We are supposed to believe in the yugas and we are supposed to be in Kalyug. Yet in the last 100 years we have seen the most advancement in human history compared to any other time in humanity. We are supoosed to believe that people lived a lot longer in the past, like for hundreds of years. I highly doubt this is true.



Yugas are an vedic concept from what I get... im not sure where you get your 'supposed' to believe in from because ive never been taught that.... 

Yugas often get broken down into time periods, as if they were concrete chunks of time.... The best explanation ive heard for what a Yug actually is or what it means came from a Gani in philly. He said that its about your state of mind, if you stayed connect with Sat Guru than no matter what period of time you are in you will always be within sat yug, if you loose your connection then you will be with in kaliyug regardless of what actual period of time your in. 



> Sorry if this offends people but I cannot live with this confusion.
> I think there is some kind of higher power but no religion has explained it. *No one can truly know until they die.*



There is no guarantee you'll know even when you die... all you can control is this moment right now... and honestly concern yourself with how you live in this moment.... worrying about the rest isnt necessary.


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## CuriousMan (May 5, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*

Thank you all for your answers but for some of them I think, have you even read the SGGS?

Karma and reincarnation are the fundamentals of Sikhi.
Some of you are saying there is no reincarnation and some are saying there is no god.
Seems like you have a very liberal interpretation of bani.

There is a passage in SGGS where it explains how in previous incarnations who were this species and that species now this is the chance to meet god because you have finally achieved human incarnation you can be free from the cycle of birth and death.
Reincarnation and rebirth have been mentioned so many times in SGGS.

Bani constantly mentions that this human life is the chance to end the rebirth cycle.

Sikhi does not simply believe when you die that's it. If you don't believe in reincarnation then I don't think Sikhi is the religion for you.

There are also lines stating - how can you forget god, the one who created you.
So believing in god is again very much a part of Sikhi. This isn't buddhism.

Some of you all make it sound like Guru Nanak was just a highly philosophical man rather than a 'messenger' of god. Maybe that is true and that makes me wonder why should I just follow what another man says rather than make my own decisions and use my own judgement.


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## Ishna (May 5, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*

You may like to review threads about Reincarnation:
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/quest...-believe-in-reincarnation-transmigration.html 

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-...rt-for-the-concept-reincarnation-sikhism.html 

And about karma: 
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/questions-and-answers/39836-in-gurbani-is-it-karma-actions.html

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/controversies/39975-why-is-the-law-karma-rejected.html

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/controversies/38889-life-is-easier-without-karma-discussion.html 

This article by Dr Baldev Singh may also give good perspective:  http://sikhbulletin.com/Bulletins/SikhBulletinJanFeb2009.pdf 

You are free to read Gurbani and reach your own conclusions, as many do.



> There are also lines stating - how can you forget god, the one who created you.
> So believing in god is again very much a part of Sikhi.


 
Perhaps, but the next question is, how does the Gurbani define the Thing which you've translated as "God"?



> Maybe that is true and that makes me wonder why should I just follow what another man says rather than make my own decisions and use my own judgement.


 
No one is asking you to.  In fact, Gurmat demands that you use your very own noodle to work things out.  That's one of the most pleasing dimensions of Sikhi, it asks you to question and seek for yourself.  It gently guides, it doesn't spoon feed you like some other religions.  This is a good thing.

Also, in the same way we listen to and respect learned teachers, professors, scientists, we can learn from great men of philosophy like Guru Nanak.


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## Parma (May 5, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*



CuriousMan said:


> Thank you all for your answers but for some of them I think, have you even read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?
> 
> Karma and reincarnation are the fundamentals of Sikhi.
> Some of you are saying there is no reincarnation and some are saying there is no god.
> ...



How can you talk about something you don't know about. So he must have been a messenger of god. Its a miracle to find people of that calibre and that is why he is so revered and it is the definition of the creator and people who are god realised human beings that causes arguments in these situations, if you gave guidance on something that great like Guru Nanak did, I would call him like a father to me I can only have great love and respect for his thoughts as they showed me a realization of God.


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## Ishna (May 5, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*



			
				Parma said:
			
		

> Guru Nanak travelled questioned all basis of thoughts and The Guru Granth Sahib ji became the pinnacle of thought the end result of ultimate spirituality, the relationship guidance for the soul supreme. Either you agree with that or you don't but only by reading and understanding it can you come to that conclusion the metaphors are so in depth that sometimes you can spend weeks thinking about a paragraph and sentence seeing how it relates and makes sense, it is an inner higher guidance I guess, and like you said I'd rather make my own decisions and use my own judgements that is correct, it comes down to the point and fact either you understand creation understand the soul understand peace or you don't understand.


 
Parma ji, thank you!  This is a gem!


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## Harry Haller (May 5, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*



> Thank you all for your answers but for some of them I think, have you even read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?



Which one are you? the questioning potentially faithless or the expert? 



> Karma and reincarnation are the fundamentals of Sikhi.



that is a very definitive statement, I am sorry to burst your bubble, but many disagree with you, my sis has given links to some. 



> Some of you are saying there is no reincarnation and some are saying there is no god.
> Seems like you have a very liberal interpretation of bani.



again are you here to further your understanding or give us a lesson?



> There is a passage in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji where it explains how in previous incarnations who were this species and that species now this is the chance to meet god because you have finally achieved human incarnation you can be free from the cycle of birth and death.



Passages in the SGGS need to be taken in context with the rest of the shabad, one liners can be misleading, if your looking for surface answers that is easy enough, if you are looking for the gems, you will have to look harder, think harder, 



> Reincarnation and rebirth have been mentioned so many times in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.



I believe that to refer to personalities not physical death



> Sikhi does not simply believe when you die that's it. If you don't believe in reincarnation then I don't think Sikhi is the religion for you.



again, please make a choice, are you student or teacher?



> Some of you all make it sound like Guru Nanak was just a highly philosophical man rather than a 'messenger' of god. Maybe that is true and that makes me wonder why should I just follow what another man says rather than make my own decisions and use my own judgement.



One can normally tell a genuinely interested person who has a genuine desire to find out more, from someone simply playing a game, your writings indicate the latter....


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## CuriousMan (May 5, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*

Well how about these lines from the SGGS:

P4
But when the intellect is stained and polluted by sin,
it can only be cleansed by the Love of Naam. 
  Virtue and vice do not come by mere words; 
  actions repeated, over and over again, are engraved on the soul. 
You shall harvest what you plant. 
O Nanak, by God’s Command, we come and go in reincarnation. 

P19
Some are very knowledgeable, 
but if they do not know the Guru, then what is the use of their lives?
The blind have forgotten Naam.
The self-willed manmukhs are in utter darkness.
Their comings and goings in reincarnation do not end;
through death and rebirth, they are wasting away. 



P124

Without the Shabad, there is only darkness within.

The genuine article is not found, and the cycle of reincarnation does not end.
The key is in the hands of the True Guru; no one else can open this door.
By perfect destiny, He is met. 



P524

Enduring pleasure and pain, drowned in the great ocean of doubt, you shall wander in numerous reincarnations.

You have lost the jewel of human birth by forgetting God; when will you have such an opportunity again?
You turn on the wheel of reincarnation, like an ox at the oil-press; the night of your life passes away without salvation.
Says Kabeer, without the Name of the Lord, you shall pound your head, and regret and repent. 




P900
Slandering others, you are totally ruined; because of your past actions, you shall be consigned to the womb of reincarnation.
Your past actions will not just go away; the most horrible Messenger of Death shall seize you. 2.
You tell lies, and do not practice what you preach. Your desires are not satisfied - what a shame.
You have contracted an incurable disease; slandering the Saints, your body is wasting away; you are utterly ruined. 

Now how can there be any doubt on Sikhi's views on reincarnation.


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## Sherdil (May 5, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*

Your looking at gurbani like an instruction manual. It's a poem. It's full of metaphors and references drawn from different sources, but framed in a new context. Mukti (Moksha) in the Hindu sense means freedom from the circle of life and death after you die. In Sikhi, we believe that we can attain Mukti while alive. We don't have to wait until death. We call this Jivan Mukti. So what happens after this life is inconsequential to us. For all intensive purposes, now is our one and only chance. 

It is generally the rule of this forum to paste the entire shabad, with the Gurmukhi part included, so that we can appreciate the tuks within their full context. Also, this allows us to check if the translations are accurate, as some meaning is lost when going from Gurmukhi to English. 

So why reference it at all? Why not? The majority of the Indian population believed in reincarnation. They believed in empty rituals and superstitions as a means to achieve liberation from this cycle. This was also used as a means of social control. The gurus said that the real way to break from this cycle is to be truthful and contemplate on the divine. Truthful thought and truthful action makes a truthful person. That's what is meant by cleansing the soul, in the first quote you referenced. 

So belief in reincarnation does not make or break your Sikhi. Either way you look at it, guru ji is telling you not to waste this precious human life. 

I have always seen it like adults telling children they will end up on Santa's naughty list if they misbehave. There is no Santa or a naughty list, but the intent is to get the children to behave, by using references they understand.


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## CuriousMan (May 5, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*

_“__Engrossed in the intoxication of sexual desire and anger, people wander through reincarnation over and over again.”_


_“__Those who do not become Gurmukh do not understand the Naam; they die, and continue coming and going in reincarnation.”_


_“__Practicing falsehood again and again, people come and go in reincarnation, and forfeit their honour.”_


Every katha I've listened to says Reincarnation is a fundamental belief in Sikhi.


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## Sherdil (May 5, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*



CuriousMan said:


> _“__Engrossed in the intoxication of sexual desire and anger, people wander through reincarnation over and over again.”_
> 
> 
> _“__Those who do not become Gurmukh do not understand the Naam; they die, and continue coming and going in reincarnation.”_
> ...



You didn't read what I wrote. You need to post the full shabadh, with page number, along with the Gurmukhi so we can verify the translation. 

If humans are the highest form of incarnation, then tell me what is the lowest form? Does gurbani mention that? What form of animal is directly under humans?

That's why it is not a literal reference. 

Even if I play Devil's advocate and say Sikhs do believe in reincarnation, it doesn't change how a Sikh is meant to live their life. That's why many Sikhs believe it is not integral to Sikhi.


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## kds1980 (May 5, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*



CuriousMan said:


> _“__Engrossed in the intoxication of sexual desire and anger, people wander through reincarnation over and over again.”_
> 
> 
> _“__Those who do not become Gurmukh do not understand the Naam; they die, and continue coming and going in reincarnation.”_
> ...



There are many versions of Sikhi.Just follow the one which you like , if not satisfied create your own


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## Ishna (May 5, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*

Reiterating Sherdil bhaji's kind explanation about how to reference shabads, it's also part of SPN's Terms of Service.

*Post full shabads, in Gurmukhi and with English translations, please.*

A good site to use is www.srigranth.org.  You can easily copy/paste the relevant shabads from that site with Gurmukhi and English.

Thank you


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## Abneet (May 5, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*



CuriousMan said:


> Thank you all for your answers but for some of them I think, have you even read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?
> 
> Karma and reincarnation are the fundamentals of Sikhi.
> Some of you are saying there is no reincarnation and some are saying there is no god.
> ...



Some like parts the GSS and others don't like some parts like reincarnation and question the GGS itself. They are entitled to their own opinions.

Guru Nanak was a prophet. He came at a time where Muslims and Hindus were doing all sorts of crazy rituals in India. Religion was very distorted at the time I believe. So of course Guru Nanak came onto this world with Divine knowledge to enlighten us all about the Truth. He indeed was a prophet. The  examples of the lives of the 10 Gurus are prime examples of Living Truthfully. Moreover, people want proof of miracles in order too see as one as a prophet. But those people don't understand its more about His teaching.


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## Harry Haller (May 6, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/Losing Faith*

This forum is truly amazing, we have managed to turn an unsure, wavering man into a staunch Sikh all in a few pages, its a miracle, let us take a look back at the progress!



> Recently I've been questioning religion and whether it is true.



ah yes, I remember this, the beginning, where it all started



> I have the following doubts.



still unsure, but ready to learn!



> Sorry if this offends people but I cannot live with this confusion.


 you can almost feel the pain!



> It would be great if these religious texts were just straight to the point without poetry and speaking in riddles.



oh wouldn't it just! It is so hard making sense isn't it?



> Thank you all for your answers but for some of them I think, have you even read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?



oh here we go, the turning point, in the space of a few days our man has turned into a sant!



> Karma and reincarnation are the fundamentals of Sikhi.



he's coming on! the doubts have vanished, the questions have gone, our man is now versed in the fundamentals of Sikhism, let us all bow before the great one!



> Well how about these lines from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji:



what?? the ones mired in poetry and riddles? but wait, its ok, because you have an english  translation that cuts through the poetry and riddles, yes, badly translated one liners to back up your new found confidence and knowledge! Bravo!!



> Now how can there be any doubt on Sikhi's views on reincarnation.



absolutely not! now please take all my money, let me buy you a new Audi and kindly have relations with all my female relatives! oh, and have this red light on me!


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## AngloSikhPeace (May 6, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/Losing Faith*

Sat Sri Akal ji.



CuriousMan said:


> Recently I've been questioning religion and whether it is true.
> 
> I like Sikhism and what it stands for but I cannot get my head around some concepts.


Even most born Sikhs can't get their head around some concepts of Sikhi. In fact, Guruji tells us in Japji Sahib:
*ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ ॥
Socẖai socẖ na hova▫ī je socẖī lakẖ vār.
By thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking hundreds of thousands of times.*
Link to full Shabad:
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=1&L=5&id=5
Waheguru cannot be explained or deducted using reason, knowledge of Waheguru is only gained as a gift. 



> All religions were formed when people did not know a much about the universe and how it was created. I do still think that Guru Nanak was special because he did state that there were multiple planets, galaxies etc.
> He also said that the universe has been created and destroyed multiple times, which fits in with the Big Bang and Big Crunch theories.


Although there are references to planets and galaxies in Gurbani, this is not the message that Guruji is trying to teach us. There are plenty of science books that describe and explain such things in far more detail. This is not the 'special' thing about Sikhi, Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is not some magical tome that predicted future scientific discoveries like Nostradamus or something.



> 1. No religion has accurately explained the origin of life on Earth and backed it up with evidence.


If you want to know _by what means_ the Universe was created, Carl Sagan or Stephen Hawking can teach you that. If you want to know _for what purpose_ the universe was created, then go to Guruji. But even that isn't what Sikhi is really about, Sikhi is the art and science of cultivating the soul so that we can meet the Divinity and experience the Divine Love directly.



> 2. Why would God create things like Dinosaurs and so much before humans? If humans are the only ones that can achieve mukti, why waste time creating dinosaurs and other ancient animals, why not create humans as one of the first lifeforms. The sikh scriptures do not mention dinosaurs.


Gurbani tells us that the whole world is like a play, and Waheguru has created all of it for his pleasure. Just as an artist paints a portrait or a writer creates a novel. The dinosaurs and other prehistoric lifeforms, along with all the rocks, desolate expanses of space, dust particles and other seemingly lifeless and meaningless things, are just more of the colours and brush-strokes that make up the world we live in.

*ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਸਭਿ ਤੇਰਾ ਖੇਲੁ ॥
Jī▫a janṯ sabẖ ṯerā kẖel.
All living beings are Your playthings.*
Link to full Shabad:
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=11&L=18&id=506



> 3. You are born into a religion, if I was born 2000 years ago in Norway I would believe in Thor and Odin.


Spiritual thought is not about which name you use to call Waheguru. An ancient Greek or a medieval Norseman can achieve liberation just as a Muslim or a Hindu can.



> 4. Countries where religion plays a big part in people's lives like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Middle East, Africa, South America are generally full of poverty. Whereas in places like Western Europe, Japan, religion is not important at all. Guess which countries are more successful and tolerant.


Firstly, 'religion', when expressed as blind and superficial obedience to a specific set of dogmas and practices, is a destructive influence. After been trapped by this net for centuries the west has seen through this and now they are achieving success in the material world.
Secondly, although the west may be the better half of the world to live in, that does not make westerners morally or spiritually superior people. Who is driving climate change? The west. Which countries (not that long ago) went around the world destroying other nations in the name of racial and cultural supremacy? The west. Which people consume so many resources that the rest of the world sits in poverty? The west. Westerners are no better or worse than others.



> 5. Why was Guruship kept in the same family from Guru Ram Das onwards? I cannot imagine Guru Nanak giving the Guruship to a child like it was given to Guru Har Krishan or a child Guru Gobind. Even though these Gurus were great men who did a lot for us it seems like nepotism.


I'm not so knowledgeable on Sikh history, so others will probably explain the reasoning behind the decision to keep the Guruship in Guru Ram Das ji's family.
As for Guru Har Krishan ji and Guru Gobind Rai ji, we learn from this that children are perfectly capable of wisdom. This may seem strange nowadays (when people are considered children up to the age of 16 or 18, or even 21) but in other societies people grew up a lot faster.



> 6. Sorry if this offends people but Guru Nanak was against rituals, so why is it mandatory to drink Amrit, carry a kirpan, grow our hair.
> We say we grow our hair because we don't want to change the form God made us in. So if we are born with an illness do we just leave it or do we keep it? We are a continually evolving species and we may one day evolve into one that has no hair.


Amrit, the Kirpan, our Kesh, are all objects and actions that contain meaning. A blind ritual is an action done for it's own sake but with no reasoning behind it beyond tradition. Rituals will not get you closer to Waheguru. An action that is imbued with meaning, with intention, though, can be like a form of meditation. A Sikh goes to bow his head before Guruji not because that's some kind of rule or custom they must follow, but because they sincerely love Maharaj ji.



> 7. Guru Nanak said if you're a Muslim be a good muslim, if you're a hindu be a good hindu, yet he criticised both religions. Even I can see that both religions have big problems. Islam with it's misogyny, violence, heaven and hell, virgins in heaven. Hinduism in it's belief in multiple gods, fairy tales, caste system. He should have been more critical.


Guruji criticises the counterproductive behaviours and thoughts of all people, especially those that result from superstitious or dogmatic beliefs. This isn't some kind of specific rebuttal or Islam or Hinduism. This should be taken to heart by Sikhs as well, there are some who base all their faith on krodh alone and think constantly of revenge on India, or those who believe that they are some sort of special super-determined superhuman, or those who just use their connections with the 'community' to get money.
The last comment there, "he should have been more critical", is really a contradiction of Sikhi in a fundamental sense. A 'Sikh' is a student. But really a 'Sikh' is a student in the spiritual sense, a Disciple. So 'Sikhi' could be translated as 'Discipleship'. A Disciple attaches themselves to their Teacher, their Master. And this attachment is in the sense of utter devotion, it is done entirely out of free will and the Disciple feels nothing but love for the Master. A Disciple does not contradict his Teacher or second-guess them, and neither does he want to.



> 8. Why worship this creator. Maybe it exists but how do you know it wants us to worship it and think about it all of the time.


How do we know? Because Guruji teaches this to us, and we are devoted to Guruji. That's the most fundamental part of it. We choose to give ourselves to Guruji in the hope that we will be led to liberation and meet Waheguru. 
Of course, that leads to a further question: how do we know Guruji is true? This is really the crux of the issue. And the answer is different for different individuals. Just like how not everyone falls in love in the same way.

Whether we 'have' to worship God or not is irrelevant. If you don't want to worship Waheguru, don't. Think of it like the Matrix if you want: take the blue pill and remain countless lives in the illusory Maya, or take the red pill of Waheguru's Name and start the journey to Liberation. 



> 9. Why has no religious 'prophet' discovered something amazing like Electricity or flying. These were supposed to be all knowing people but they did not help humanity in scientific advancement.


Scientific advancement is part of Maya. Guruji teaches us how to escape from Maya.



> 10. People turn to God when things are down and when going through depression. I am guilty of this as well but as soon as the storm clears and my rational thought returns I return to doubt.


This is the case for many people at the beginning of the path, but eventually it becomes the case that we think about Waheguru all the time, leaving us permanently in elation. Even sadness becomes sweeter, as it turns from mere misery into a deep longing and sense of separation from Waheguru.



> 11. There are so many religions in this world and most of them have only been around for 5000 years, whereas humans have been around a lot longer. People have worshiped all kinds of things throughout humanity, from the sun, to idols, demi gods, one god and now worshiping no god is rising.


Counterproductive and destructive thinking have been around for thousands of years, and so have enlightened and spiritual thinking. The names and labels and forms they take are irrelevant. 



> 12. They could have sent out a big message by giving the guruship to a lower caste person, rather than keeping it in the high Khatri caste. They could have married out of caste. It would have sent out an even bigger message.


As others have said, India was highly socially-stratified, people wouldn't have listened to a low-caste person, they would have just dismissed it as the ramblings of a man who has forgotten his place. Little to be gained just by rebelling for its own sake.



> 13. Karma system has flaws. So if you are bad you are given a bad next life, but who cares, it's not like you will remember it. I think it's downright cruel to say that disabled people are born that way because of bad karma. Why don't we just stop helping the poor people, after all it is due to bad karma that they are born that way.
> Generally the more money people have the more they succumb to vices, so
> is it better to be born poor and believe in god or be born into a rich family where you are more likely do 'bad things'


First: I will make it clear that I personally disagree with the stance on Karma that this forum generally follows. I do accept this concept. But I also know that I don't really have the knowledge to debate it properly here, so I don't want this to spark anything like that off.
Secondly: whether what happens to us is just or unjust is a matter of perspective. The difference between suffering and happiness is also a matter of perspective. Sukh and Dukh are just millimetres from each other. I have many problems and disabilities, but I don't cry over these that God has been unfair to me. Whatever actions I did in my previous lives resulted in this, even though I can't remember.



> 14. Reincarnation. There are lines in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that if you think of your family in your last breath you will come back as a pig. Well then I guess a huge proportion of people who die come back as pigs because that is what a lot of people think of when they die. Why is it wrong to think of your family when dying?


For specifics of Gurbani please see someone else's response. I could give my own thoughts here but I don't want to be twisting Guruji's words or trying to turn it into my own or something.



> 15. Yugas make no sense. We are supposed to believe in the yugas and we are supposed to be in Kalyug. Yet in the last 100 years we have seen the most advancement in human history compared to any other time in humanity. We are supoosed to believe that people lived a lot longer in the past, like for hundreds of years. I highly doubt this is true.


Yugas etc are not meant to be taken literally. But again, I am reluctant to speak here because I can't back this up with sources. However, I did speak to somebody about this recently and they gave a good explanation.


Please forgive me if I have made mistakes in this. Also, not sure if my citation/quotation layout is correct.


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## SaintSoldier1699 (May 6, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/Losing Faith*

Sikhi teaches us to change now, in the present, read, digest and act, circle of self improvement, inner journey and outer sorts itself out.

Reincarnation is based on a whole lifetime, and even then you don't know what you were, unless you go to a man with a round turban in white who will give you tall stories of being an ant, or that you were horrible to your servant and now are poor, disrespected, ugly because of those past actions etc etc and must repent to have another go! Yet you still wont remember next time!

Imagine Guru Nanak on his travel, "awakening" the sleeping souls like a sun rising and lighting up everything, wherever he went he created a change in psyche this is the power of Gurbani! Here and now, in the present.

Also, yes your super progressive expertise does suggest your just here to tell everyone disagreeing with you that they are not "Sikh" :realangrymunda:


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## AngloSikhPeace (May 6, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/Losing Faith*



SaintSoldier1699 said:


> Also, yes your super progressive expertise does suggest your just here to tell everyone disagreeing with you that they are not "Sikh" :realangrymunda:


Who? Not me?


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## SaintSoldier1699 (May 6, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/Losing Faith*



AngloSikhPeace said:


> Who? Not me?



Sorry that was aimed at CuriousMan!  Sorry for the confusion.


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## AngloSikhPeace (May 6, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/Losing Faith*



SaintSoldier1699 said:


> Sorry that was aimed at CuriousMan!  Sorry for the confusion.



To be fair, I don't think that's why he's here either, he just has questions and wants to discuss them.


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## SaintSoldier1699 (May 6, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/Losing Faith*

The questions were good, well structured, and it is enjoying to see someone asking questions others fear to ask and also, to read everyone's views regardless of them not necessarily being the same.

It's just the unfortunate end where you ask for views/opinions then compare with your own view and say but this is set in stone that "x" is correct, and the rest are incorrect which closes the openness of the discussion and learning.


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## Harry Haller (May 6, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/Losing Faith*



AngloSikhPeace said:


> To be fair, I don't think that's why he's here either, he just has questions and wants to discuss them.



yes, just like Harry Puttar and Skepticfreethinker! :whislingmunda:


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## Aisha (May 6, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*



CuriousMan said:


> I also sometimes think maybe Guru Nanak was a truly divine man and the Gurus after him although being great were not at the same spiritual level and introduced rituals.



I think you seem to forget that alongside all of Guru Nanak's teachings and actions, one of them was to appoint Bhai Lehna as his successor. He even went so far as to change his name to Angad, because Guru Nanak Sahib viewed him as an extension of himself. There was no difference between Guru Nanak ji and Guru Angad ji, And then Guru Angad appointed a successor, who appointed a successor and so forth until Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Do you think Guru Nanak made a mistake?



> It would be great if these religious texts were just straight to the point without poetry and speaking in riddles.



You mean like a list of commandments? If Sikhi had those, I'm sure you'd be on here complaining about all the hard rules and regulations in the faith.

I'm pretty sure you're a Richard Dawkins fan. He routinely complains about the dogma of most religions, about how they don't allow for free-though and introspection. Sikhi forces you to think and use your own intellect. It is not a list of rules and commandments. So then why are you complaining?



> Thank you all for your answers but for some of them I think, have you even read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?
> 
> Karma and reincarnation are the fundamentals of Sikhi.
> 
> ...



With all due respect, I think you should avoid giving people on here lessons about what is and isn't a part of Sikhi, considering you make statements such as this:



> I wonder that Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Guru Tegh Bahadur, Sahibzade were such great holy people who meditated a lot but they faced a gruesome demise. I thought by mediating such things could be avoided.



No offence bro, but if that is your idea of Sikhi (meditating to magically make all your problems go away), then to say you've completely missed the ball by a mile would be a gross understatement.

Rab Rakha.


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## Parma (May 7, 2014)

5. Why was Guruship kept in the same family from Guru Ram Das onwards? I cannot imagine Guru Nanak giving the Guruship to a child like it was given to Guru Har Krishan or a child Guru Gobind. Even though these Gurus were great men who did a lot for us it seems like nepotism. 
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/questions-and-answers/42357-questioning-losing-faith.html

Mr Curiousman I would like to add another point as well to this question, that Guru Nanak never spent much time with his kids to raise them, he sacrificed his own families knowledge and advancement for the sake of the advancement of humanity. Humanity should have returned that knowledge and advancement back to the upbringing of his children while he was teaching the world they should have given the love back, as he spent a lot of his time teaching the world, nobody was honest enough to give that truthful approach, or maybe no one understood enough at the time as it was a new approach, to give the advice back to his kids, I guess it showed the measure of humanity, even after seeing the great man no one was wise enough to realise the true and real seva they could have given to him at the time, which would have been to teach them the truth of Nanak's own philosophy, to his immediate family his family was humanity so he never differentiated, so he let god/nature play its game. When the seat of authority was given to the second Guru, they tried there level best to give that approach to them, but they had gone beyond his limit at that point the children watched in amazement and instead they developed into what surrounded them Guru Nanak's fame and fortune, others wanted to gain the power and be in control of the understanding of this power through his children they hoped to control the enlightenment and power of the Guru Granth Sahib ji after Guru Nanak the Guru's did not travel as much. The birth of something had started and nature had its own process of looking after itself, (just as a baby is born it first learns to suckle milk from its mother its own self then it slowly learns to fend for itself, it was a growing process for Sikhism as an example); and I guess it worked out the way nature intended it too. The succession of Guru Ram Dass ji who wrote the marriage rights in Sikhism, he being the Guru had situations and circumstances that others did not, and the others had different situations and circumstances, and thus further development happened, with his choices he added different rights and words that became enshrined into the Granth and the Panth it grew, it had become more and if the Guru granted his own children full knowledge of himself who would have been better to guide the Sikhs to this in depth point of knowledge that was being passed on naturally. I guess in Sikhism the Guru's temporal seat could have went to anyone, it would have went to the best person it was a natural temporal seat of God that developed itself. Such as it did in Guru Nanak's time only at the time of the development process Sikhism developed the best way it could naturally, there simply was no one more better that understood Nanak's philosophy at the time, and nature then worked its own progress on there families in a sad way, it was a sadness they should never have experienced but god creates, and desecrates it all, nature works in its own great way, there bloodlines may have finished and the ones that tried to finish them there bloodlines may have finished as well, but the essence of the truth for what they lived for through there sacrifices and religion, Sikhism, still lives on. The aggressor and the defender both lose always so that is why peace matters as no one ever gains, its gods game. The non spiritual man could call them both fools at each side of the spectrum realistically they fought for what they thought was right, it is not about wining or losing it is a inner guidance of pure love. In a way it was left for humanity to look after the Truth and they never did it, so the Guru's had to look after the Truth themselves, the soul of humanity=children=love=family=god, development, education. My own spiritual education does not belong to my biological, mother and father, they have contributed in some ways I guess but I don't get on well with them, I personally have always classed god waheguru, the guru granth sahib ji as my parents and my guidance, not perfect, we are humans but I am always learning=Sikh. God is where my love resides. http://youtu.be/8wRW57nBLMI, The best way I understand it


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## CuriousMan (May 8, 2014)

Thank you all for your replies.

I think I will speak to a gyani at my local gurdwara. I believe he would be the best person to have a discourse with.

Thanks again.


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## Aisha (May 8, 2014)

CuriousMan said:


> Thank you all for your replies.
> 
> I think I will speak to a gyani at my local gurdwara. I believe he would be the best person to have a discourse with.
> 
> Thanks again.



Well, if you're looking for answers from a Brahmanized, literal, skim-the-surface version of Sikhi, which treats the SGGS ji as a book of prose rather than the spiritual poetic compilation that it is, then yes, he would probably be the best person to have a discourse with.

Although I think maybe, just maybe, it'd be worth your while to also ask questions on here so that you can get more than one set of opinions. In my experience, the overwhelimg majority of Gyanis are from India, and they often can't tell the difference between authentic Sikhi and Hindu imports.


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## chazSingh (May 9, 2014)

*Re: Questioning/losing faith*



CuriousMan said:


> Thank you all for your answers but for some of them I think, have you even read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?
> 
> Karma and reincarnation are the fundamentals of Sikhi.
> Some of you are saying there is no reincarnation and some are saying there is no god.
> ...



i think you are finding out as many of us do, on a forum you will get a mish mash of view opinions ideas etc etc... 

if you're curious about God, do what bani says...live honestly, truthfully, share your earnings, be helpful to the people around you...
and also spend time away from the 5 senses and do your Simran (i do Amrit Vela, but do anytime you can) and find out the answers for yourself...no one can give you the answers...

with regards to you mentioning that some of the gurus has a bad death and that surely meditation would have prevented such events from taking place...

the Gurus showed the power of naam...and when a person meditates on Naam then they go beyond pain and suffering..doesn't matter what people see (i.e. the torture)...within themselved i'm sure they would have been in total peace...

if there is a part if you that really really wants to know...make the effort to find out...your life will never be the same...the giani ji can only give you tips...forum members can only give you tips..in the end you must walk yourself

just another tip and opinion...


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## kggr001 (May 25, 2014)

CuriousMan said:


> Recently I've been questioning religion and whether it is true.
> 
> I like Sikhism and what it stands for but I cannot get my head around some concepts.
> 
> ...



Answered some of you questions in blue inside the quote.


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## Ishna (May 25, 2014)

Welcome Kggs Ji :welcomekaur:

Do stop by the Introducing Myself thread and tell us a bit more about yourself, if you have a spare moment:  http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/announcements/5626-introducing-myself.html 

Always happy to meet new participants!  :cheerleaders:


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## arshdeep88 (May 27, 2014)

1) No Religion? are you sure? i think the Bible and the Quaran do mentions about how the universe was created and how it came into existence.But the question is how would it change my current day scenario and situations?Guru Granth Sahib Ji More or less deals with the latter part rather than the first for me.

2)You dont want the gurus to exactly pin point the word or reference to the Dinosaurs in Guru Granth Sahib by the Gurus.There are many references i think where it is mentioned  innumerable species are there and all come into the existence by the Will of the creator.For Mukti ,i think its a rather a state of mind than a place to go after you Die as Harry ji mentioned in one of the answer.

3)There is a more to it than just being born and brought up in a particular religion.It is sheer love that attracts you to a particular religion and takes a lot of dedication ,devotion,efforts and open mindedness to understand it.There are many knowledgable persons born out of sikh family but who took to Sikhi in their life at some stage of life.

4)Its more to do with i think how people define Religion.Personally for me Sikhi has helped me a lot to be tolerant ,peaceful  and move slowly and slowly towards the things i should be concerned with.

5)Here i think we should trust the Gurus to whom did they passed the Guruship to and to whom they didnt,shouldnt we?They were the perfect persons to judge according to the circumstances and have an awareness to pass the Guruship to the well deserved person. i Believe Harry ji has perfectly answered this question about the child part.
 i have quite a lot cousins but there is one cousin of mine who is the brightest of all,well behaved and i can judge this being an oridnary person who seldoms read gurbani.I dont know what do he turns out to be in later part of life but the point is that age is not a barrier to judge someone ,some children do have something special in them. Guru Gobind Singh Ji was such child and his Life ,his sacrifices,his bravery ,his courage did shows the same and so did Guru Har Krishan Ji's


6)During my childhood days i was very much a fan of WWE.My favourite use to be     Undertaker and Kane.The way WWE was presented.They were my heroes and i use to imitate every move ,every style of thiers.we do copy our heroes ,we do want to look
 like them,don't we?
 That's what the followers of Sikhism do,Gurus are their r heroes,they love their Guru so much that they try to follow 
  them in every aspect of life.Keeping hair ,wearing the same attire is more of a love towards the way how the Gurus Life rather than something
  Else from my point of view.

7)i think he was criticizing  people behind the curtains of religion and doing immoral things and practicing hypocrisy rather than the religion itself. 

8)Yes you are right why worship the creator.Why one would want to be worshiped,nor does he/she pay heedsto it i think.More imporant is how we follow the way of life for me.


oh! am really Sorry i could answer only first 8 questions of you,getting late for other things that i need to do for right now.Others have answered your
questions very well,will try if i can if i can answer some of those other questions.
Indeed a good questions ,its like answering yourself.

Good luck


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## Jass Singh (May 27, 2014)

CuriousMan, I hear your cognitive dissonance, doubts & genuine desire for truth. Before I can comment on your questions would you mind clarifying two simple questions? [/FONT]
  1)     1)  [/FONT]What religious tradition are you originally from? & [/FONT]
  2)    2)   [/FONT]What attracted you to Sikhism? 
[/FONT]

[/FONT]


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