# Sacrifice At Hazur Sahib – Myth & Truth



## Randip Singh (Apr 20, 2009)

http://www.worldsikhnews.com/21 January 2009/Goat Sacrifice at Hazur Sahib  Myth & Truth.htmThe Internet has              provided a forum for free speech which is being abused by all and              sundry to project their views with the finality of an intellectual              whose research cannot be wrong.  All writers, young and old, write              in the superlative degree, presenting their views as “the only              correct view”, “the best book”, “the worst case” and the like. Human              fallibility has become non-existent.                           After the              Tercentenary celebrations at Hazur Sahib, on the internet and in              print magazines, it has become fashionable for Sikh intelligentsia              to indulge in a superlative discussion about, "Goat Sacrifice at              Hazur Sahib."

                          I have been              following this debate for a long time and I have observed that most              of the debate is frivolous and those who do spend time on this              subject do so without understanding the details of the phenomenon. 
                          Beyond all              reasonable doubt let me authoritatively say and explain how this              myth is a half-truth and more injurious than the lie.   

                          As a student of              Gurmat, I am fully aware of the facts and practices of the Sikhs              particularly of this region, who are called "Deccani Sikhs".  Since              the last four generations, I have lived in this region and therefore              I am also one of them.      

                          What is the act              of sacrifice? It is a religious ritual of killing (an animal or              person) in order to propitiate a deity.  This is strictly forbidden              in Sikhism. The lives of the Ten Gurus and the teachings of Guru              Granth Sahib have several crystal clear explanations.   

                          The shabads              of Guru Granth Sahib are misquoted, misused and misinterpreted to              propagate vegetarianism among the Sikhs by some intellectuals and by              vested interests, particular those running deras. 
                                                                                                It is not fair to presume that Jhatka of goat is a sacrificial                  act at Hazur Sahib and other Unit Gurdwaras of the Deccani                  Sikhs.  Since thousands of years, it is a custom of warriors of                  India to put the Tilak of blood to their weaponry on the                  occasion of Dashara and Holi.  In these Gurdwaras, the tilak of                  blood is put to the weapons, not to Guru Granth Sahib or any                  other idol or photograph.

                                                                        Even innocent              Sikh preachers toe the line, as either they are ignorant or they too              want to appease the vested interests or they think vegetarianism              will make them popular.  

                          Sikhs living in              and around Hazur Sahib of the erstwhile              Hyderabad State              are the decedents who took Amrit in presence of Guru Gobind Singh Ji              in the year 1708.  Around 1830, the Sikh Army of Maharaja Ranjit              Singh came to help the Nizam, who was the ruler of Hyderabad.  This              army was retained here as a Sikh Peace keeping Force, which had 14              Risalas (units) at all district headquarters with its Unit Gurdwaras.               They held the then prevailing practices and rituals of the Sikhs of              that period as a disciplined Armed Force.  

                          It is not fair              to presume that Jhatka of goat is a sacrificial act at Hazur Sahib              and other Unit Gurdwaras of the Deccani Sikhs.  Since thousands of              years, it is a custom of warriors of              India to put the              Tilak of blood to their weaponry on the occasion of Dashara and Holi.               In these Gurdwaras, the tilak of blood is put to the weapons, not to              Guru Granth Sahib or any other idol or photograph. Though it is not              in consonance with Sikh philosophy, like many other practices that              have crept into the Sikh way of life, this too requires sane              intervention so that it can be stopped. Mere condemnation ad nauseam              will not help stopping it.               

                          It is important              that we see things objectively and rationally. From the point of              view of Sikh image and Sikh practice, this has to be stopped, but              this should be bracketed with many other practices and rituals which              require serious steps.  But there are so many rituals and festivals              of other religions which are Celebration of the New Year of the              Christian Era, Sammat new month –Sangrand and Full moon day –Pooranmashi.               Are these all not anti-Sikh practices?       








Guru Nanak Sahib              in shabad number25 on pages 1289-90 has explained how the              fools quarrel over vegetarianism and meat-eating.  In 35 thirty five              verses starting with "Pehla masaho nimiya maasai ander vas".  "pihlW              mwshu inMimAw   mwsY AMdir vwsu",  saying that, "First, the mortal              is conceived in the flesh, and then he dwells in the flesh".               Gurbani repeatedly reiterates that God is equally abiding in His              Creation including food grains, water, vegetation, animal and human              bodies.  Gurbani strictly condemns sacrifices of animals for              pleasing deities and offerings of eatables in fire for performing              Havan, Yagyan, Lohri and other such festivities.   

                          On page number              1275 of Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Nanak Sahib has further explained              the law of nature that, “Ek ji, kai jiyaan khahi ”, “eyk jIA , kY              jIAw KwhI” means “One life eats several lives”. 

                          On page number              955, Guru Angad Sahib Ji further clarifies saying that, “Jiya ka              ahar ji, khana yeho karey ”, “jIAw kw Ahwr jIA   Kwxw eyhu kryie]”,              meaning “God has made the creatures’ food for other creatures.”     

                          There is enough              historical evidence that in the in the langar of Guru Nanak Sahib              and Guru Gobind Singh, meat was cooked and served.  As the              sentiments of non-meat eaters were hurt, it was subsequently              stopped.  Thus, Guru Ka Langar has gone purely vegetarian and should              be accepted and venerated by one and all. 






Since thousands              of years, Jhatka is an Indian tradition of killing any animal with              one stroke.  In              Assam, Rajasthan              and some other north Indian regions, it is still prevailing.  Halal              meat is actually Zubah meat (half cut throat) which is halal              (permitted) for the Muslims.  This tradition is borrowed by them              from Jewish religion's "Kosher meat".  This sort of meat is              specifically declared harram (forbidden-sinful) for the Sikhs              in Sikh Rehat Maryada.  The diktat to eat Jhatka meat was a revolt              against the established custom of the time and also a step of              rebellion against Muslim tyranny.   

                          Those who              advocate vegetarianism among Sikhs is deliberately overlooking the              provisions of Sikh Rehat Maryada, which clearly prohibits consuming             Kuththa (halal meat) and does not in any manner prevent Sikhs              from being non-vegetarians. It is the discretion and liberty of              Amritdharis to consume meat, if they choose to do so.  Also,              any Sikh, who chooses to be vegetarian, is welcome to remain so, but              it is foolhardy, naïve and wrong to attempt to amend              the Sikh religious ethos according to this choice.   


_*Nanak Singh              “Nishter” is a Hyderabad-based orator, writer and Urdu poet.  He is              a regular columnist of World Sikh News. He is an              activist-academician making immense contribution to the social and              cultural welfare of Sikh society.  He is director of International              Sikh Centre for Interfaith Relations. He may be contacted at              nanaknishter@gmail.com*_


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## Randip Singh (Apr 22, 2009)

Dear Singh,

If you carry on posting irrelevant videos and posts you will be banned. A friendly warning.

Your behaviour has been tolerated up until now but it will no longer be.


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## spnadmin (Apr 22, 2009)

Ditto!


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## Archived_Member4 (Apr 22, 2009)

The Hazur Sahib video was irrelevant.  You gotta be kidding me.  This article is about Hazur Sahib and the goat killing.  So a video of Hazur Sahib Sikhs killing a goat is irrelevant????

I really hope you answer this question instead of just deleteing the post.


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## Randip Singh (Apr 27, 2009)

Singh said:


> The Hazur Sahib video was irrelevant.  You gotta be kidding me.  This article is about Hazur Sahib and the goat killing.  So a video of Hazur Sahib Sikhs killing a goat is irrelevant????
> 
> I really hope you answer this question instead of just deleteing the post.



Stop playing games. Read the article. The article is trying to clear up a misconception about sacrifice and what you are trying to do is crusade for Peta by posting a video on cow slaughter. .... That IS irrelevant, so just STOP IT!:alie:


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## Hardip Singh (Apr 27, 2009)

Thanks to S. randip Singh ji for posting this Gyani Nanak Singh Nastar's article. I fully agree with the contents of the article and appreciates the efforts taken to clear the myths regarding the subject.
Guru fateh.


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## Randip Singh (Apr 27, 2009)

He also sent me another article:

Nanak Singh Nishter​ 


Ending Illiteracy among Sikhs​ With the academic session coming, wake up call for volunteers​ ​                           Introduction:  
  According to the Censes 2001 report of the country the literary percentage of the Jains is 84.1%, Christians 69.46%, Buddhists 62.16%, Sikhs 60.55% Hindus 54.92% and Muslims 48.05%. The Sikhs outside                                                                                                                                                                                                           Punjab in the country and abroad, even since centuries of their migration are better placed in Sikhi appearance, education, maintaining good status and relations with other communities, though at several places they are politically marginalised due to their microscopic population.  Whereas in Punjab where the Sikhs command in population and resources of funds are the most illiterate community having 58.67 %, whereas the literacy rate among Jains is 86.10 %, Hindus 64.79 %, Buddhists 62.94 %.  Further more, India's Planning Commission that observes and monitors economic fundamentals of growth, in its latest assessment of the 11th Plan 
document of the states finds the disturbing truth that economically Punjab would be laggard state, at the bottom in terms of growth during the 11th Plan [2007-2012], and the Sikhs will be the most hurt people.  

  Conversions to Christianity: 
  In May 2008 issue of The Sikh Review, Kolkata, India, a article “ Are Sikhs being targeted for conversions? ” was published.  Subsequently, in the month of November 2008, 35 young Sikhs from Fateh Gadh Sahib, Punjab, went to Bangalore to become Christian Preachers, after their representations failed to get redress their socio-religious and economic problems by the leadership and individuals.  This shows how Sikhs are being aggressively converted into Christianity by brain washing and lucrative incentives in their own home land of Punjab itself.  Let us frankly admit that we have utterly failed to retain them in Sikh fold by not conveying them the true spiritual and temporal knowledge of Shri Guru Granth Sahib and catch hold and economically support our brethren to counter and resist the diversions from our faith or conversions to other religions even in other parts of the country also.  Now we have reduced Sikhism only in the shelf of books not in our practical life. Our sole concentration is on squeezing and extorting money from them for the celebrations and constructions, making the poor still poorer. 

  Minority Status: 
  The Section 2 (C) of the National Commission for Minorities Act 1992 of the Parliament has notified Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists, and Zoroastrians (Parsis) as minority communities.  According to the statement made on the floor of Indian Parliament by Mr. Abdul Rehman Antuley, minister for minority affairs, during the year 2007-2008, the Sikh community had a quota of 2,540 (Government of India allots the quota in proportionate to the population) but only 50 was the number of Sikh beneficiaries but not even a single application has come from the State of Punjab.   

  Apart from the Government of India, almost all State Governments and Union  Territories also grant educational scholarships to minorities.  We can apply for both, but eligible for any one scholarship.  The details of the scheme and applications format can be visited at the State websites in the Minorities’ Welfare Department, Minorities’ Finance Corporation or by any other name. The Sikhs do not propagate and motivate their people.  Whereas, Muslims preach after Nimaz in every Mosque to avail the benefits.  For this purpose, several persons and organisations are working and are benefited by thousands of crores annually.

  I request one and all to kindly promote the awareness and motivate our people to apply for the benefits, wherever they are eligible in the categories of (1) Minority, (2) Backward, (3) Scheduled Caste and (4) Scheduled Tribe.  There is another advantage for those Scheduled Cates and Scheduled Tribes people who embraced Sikhism is better than the born Sikh and eligible to get all the benefits of his original caste or tribe, we should get them their benefits. Hope you will actively associate yourself with this movement of true service for the uplift of _“ Guru Panth ”._

  Scheduled Caste Status:
  In the year 2007, country faced an agitation of the Gujjar community’s claim for elevation to the list of Scheduled Tribes, though they exist in the list of Backward Classes.  It took more than 50 lives and crores of private and government properties.  From this we can understand the importance and benefits of getting reservations for the community’s welfare. After the Justice Sachar Committee’s recommendations, some of the Muslim communities have been given backward class status in almost all the states and the Muslims got reservations in admissions and services also.  

  The same Justice Sachar Committee’s report of 2006 revealed the astonishing facts about the Sikhs saying that, “ The 61st Round Survey of the The National Sample Survey Organisation (NSSO - organization in the Ministry of Statistics and Programme Implementation of the Government of India.) found that almost one-third of the Sikhs in India belonged to the notified Scheduled Castes of the Constitution.  Among them 30.70% are the Scheduled Castes and 0.90% are Scheduled Tribes ”.  

  After prolong sufferings and sacrifices under the leadership of Master Tara Singh, certain Sikh communities were included in the List of Scheduled Caste of Punjab, such as Bauri or Bawaria, Bazigar, Balmiki, Chura or Bhangi, Banjara, Chamar, Jatia Chamar, Rehgar, Raigar, Ramdasia or Ravidasia, Kabirpanthi or Julaha, Mazbhi Sikh, Raisikh and Sikligar.  Some of these communities are also listed as Scheduled Caste in the neighbouring states of Himachal Pradesh, Haryana, Rajasthan, and Delhi etc., and listed as Back Ward Classes in other states.  

   You can obtain the list from The District Social Welfare Officer or Tehsildar of your area; locate and approach the deserving Sikhs of the listed communities.   Help them to obtain the community certificate from the concerned officials.  Motivate them to avail the government benefits and socially and religiously treat them as one among you, so that they should not hesitate to avail the facilities for fear of inferiority complex. Those Scheduled Cates and Scheduled Tribes people who embrace Sikhism are in further advantageous position better than the so-called higher caste Sikhs, and eligible to get all the benefits of reservations in seats, services and scholarships of their original caste or tribe.  If they are deprived anywhere, we should help them to get their benefits as their legally and constitutionally conferred right. 

  At the commencing academic year in the months of June-July, we never notice any advertisement calling the applications from the minority students for awarding handsome educational scholarships from class 1 to 
  Ph. D. level.  The procedure is so simple that you need not go to any office for any information. You can find the details of the scheme and applications format at the Government of India website www.minorityaffairs.gov.in  You have to just download, fill it up and submit to the head of the institution.  The needy person may not have any resources to get all this, but those who are fortunate enough to have access to internet, may render this Seva of collecting the information and distributing it to our less-fortunate brethren.  Generally most of our institutions or we as an individual do not have the aptitude and intention to work and spend for the uplift of our people.  At least now onwards we should resolve to help them to avail it by down loading the application form and filling columns etc.

  Minority Welfare Schemes:      
  Apart from the Government of India, almost all State Governments and Union  Territories also award educational scholarships, loans at lower rate of interest and margin money ( non-refundable subsidy ) and other incentives for self employment of minority communities. The details of the schemes and applications format can be visited at the State websites in the Minorities’ Welfare Department, Minorities’ Finance Corporation or by any other name.  For further details we can visit the Google site and search for the country wide minority schemes and of your concerned area.  Several other philanthropic corporate business houses and individuals are granting liberal scholarships for higher education to the meritorious students. National Minorities Development & Finance Corporation, New Delhi, on www.nmdfc.org/ can be visited for margin money assistance, educational loan, micro finance and several other schemes.  Moulana Azad Education Foundation, New Delhi, on www.maef.nic.in for grant-in-aids to minority educational institutions and scholarships to girls, so on and so forth.

  Career Guidance:
  Knowledgeable persons should take the responsibility of guiding them for their career, as in every other religious society is being done.  Students should be suggested before school final examination, instead of joining the college in a traditional way, which line of education or vocational training is proper for them according to their circumstances, performance, attitude and aptitude. Even the physically challenged (handicapped) are eligible for admissions in medical colleges, get reservation in Civil Services and liberal scholarships.  For higher studies getting admission into prestigious courses, it is important to compete with others and distinguish yourself leaving behind all others.  It is an Age of Competitions, and it is our prime duty to equip our coming generation for respectable survival of the community.  For Minorities, Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and Backward Classes, free coaching even in certain cases by providing stipends for out station students also, for admission tests of professional courses, written, oral and physical tests for recruitment of any services.  A net work of coaching centres has been spread all over the country by the Universities and Governments.  Several organisations are also working to support their own communities

  Vocational Training:
  For providing self employment, there is another net work all over the country of giving free training in different trades to the public particularly the minorities to enable them to start their own business.  In certain cases, stipend is also provided to the candidates.  From the level of illiterate to the level of professionally skilled persons of either sex, training is imparted.  House wives are also being trained to enhance their income in the spare time. After completion of training, loan and margin money is also provided to start their ventures. For physically handicapped persons special incentives of educational scholarships, training and loans up to rupees five lakhs are given on a subsidised rate of interest and simple terms and conditions.  Jana Sikhshan Sansthan, Youth Welfare Department, Women and Child Welfare Department, Industries Department, Minorities Welfare Department, Minorities Finance Corporation and several other voluntary organisations are also providing training at all district head quarters.  

  Women empowerment:
  The steep declining ratio of women population is very alarming especially among the Sikhs that tops the global list.  In the year 2006 in a T.V. report, a Sikh woman was shown married to three Sikh brothers in a village of Punjab.  She has to live with 3 persons at the same time.  Even this has not shaken our intellectual, social, political and religious leadership so far.  

  The latest National Family Health Survey (NFHS) compiled by the International Institute for Population Sciences, Mumbai, has released its report in November 2008.  It says that, “ Infamous for its male fixation, 25% women in the state of Punjab are said to suffer from spousal violence.  Surprisingly, spousal violence isnot limited to rural or uneducated sections alone. Of the 25% women who reported spousal violence, 23% are from urban pockets and 13% are well educated ”. Though this survey is based on population, obviously most of the Sikhs are responsible for it in proportion to their population.  To brighten and secure the future of the community, we have to concentrate our attention and energy for bringing up girls. There is good old proverb, “ If you educate a boy, you are educating an individual.  And if you are educating a girl, you are educating a family ”.     

  Let us all feel our own responsibility instead of looking at others who will never come to your rescue, get up and do whatever you can do at least in your spare time for the uplift of our brethren in what so manner you can.  We should not forget that, “ Only the drops of rain fill the oceans ”.  Let us become a drop, the miracles and other people will follow you to positively change the future of our community.


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## Hardip Singh (Apr 27, 2009)

Randeep Singh jee,
Thanks for the highly informative article for our younger ones. I have downloaded the same and will try my best to paste the photocopies of the articles on the notice boards of all the local Sikh schools. Guru Fateh.


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## Randip Singh (May 7, 2009)

Hardip Singh Vohra said:


> Randeep Singh jee,
> Thanks for the highly informative article for our younger ones. I have downloaded the same and will try my best to paste the photocopies of the articles on the notice boards of all the local Sikh schools. Guru Fateh.



That is a good idea, maybe we can get a link with the WSO?


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## Randip Singh (Jun 25, 2010)

I See "Only Five" is deriding what is being said on this page here:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/47124-sacrifice-at-hazur-sahib-myth-truth/?

My response to what he is saying:

*Jhatka*

Jhatka has nothing to do with reducing cruelty, or making food OK, or pure.

Jhatka is aour martial heritage, passed down from Rajput warriors. The ability to kill something in one blow on the battle field ensures you are not killed. Practicing this on animals has a duel purpose:

1) Provides Food, or kills dangerous animals.
2) Enables warriors to hone swordsmanship.

Jhatka also is not praying over the animal. It is simply Ardas or a thanking to God, unlike Halal which is purification.

*Only Fives Vegetarian Cruelty*

"Only Five" has actually dug himself a hole. What he is in effect sayoing is, vegetable do not die when out of the ground, unlike the animal that is dead in ONE BLOW!

He is saying, vegetables are alive, when chopped and boild. That is indeed more cruelr than Halal.

Exactly in line with what Guru Nanak says here:

Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Maajh on Pannaa 142 

_First Mehla:_
_Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles,_
_and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed._
_What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out._
_And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below._
_Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated! ||2||_

*Sacrifice To God*

Guru Nanak spoke of the futility of sacrifices again and again. Be it animal carcases burnt on funeral pyres by Brahmin priests or ritual slaughter by Muslims.

Jhatka does not do that. It is just a killling method.


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## spnadmin (Jun 25, 2010)

That is a thread and a reply nearly 2 years old. Randip ji - I do not believe that Only Five wrote that himaelf. Having seen many too many samples of his writing that article is too polished. Someone else wrote it. swordfight

But what will probably injure egos more is this. This conversation actually belongs in the Sanatan Sikhism section, to which it will now be moved. Take that and that and that and that! :firing::firing::firing::firing:


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## Seeker9 (Mar 1, 2011)

Well ... this is interesting...came across it by accident

I see the last reply is dated 25 June 2010 and I don't remember ever posting a reply on this not to mention one that would merit the announcement at the top of the page....yet there it is!

Maybe I'm losing my memory but grateful if someone could advise as to why there is announcement directed to me!

Thanks


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## spnadmin (Mar 1, 2011)

Seeker9 ji

So sorry for the shock! The message is program so everyone see his/her own name when landing on the page. For example, I see spnadmin ji. 

The message was included because many times when the sanatan splinter groups and sects are discussed, there are those who are unable to remain in control of their manners and become extremely emotional. And others who see it is an opportunity to proselytize. Yet others who take off in an unrelated direction because they like to plumb the depths of Hindu thought and will not return to topic.


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## Seeker9 (Mar 1, 2011)

ah..right..that makes sense...quite clever too
:blueturban:


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## sachbol (Aug 13, 2011)

Randip Singh said:


> I See "Only Five" is deriding what is being said on this page here:
> 
> http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/47124-sacrifice-at-hazur-sahib-myth-truth/?
> 
> ...


ਝਟਕਾ ਅਤੇ   ਬਕਰਾ ਝਟਕ ਕੇ ਬਲੀ ਦੇਣੀ ਅਤੇ ਬਕਰੇ ਦੀ ਸਿਰੀ ਗੁਰਦਵਾਰੇ ਵਿਚ ਲਿਜਾ ਕੇ ਸ਼ਾਸਤਰਾਂ ਨੂ ਤਿਲਕ ਲਗਾਉਣਾ ਅਲਗ ਅਲਗ ਗੱਲਾਂ ਹਨ.

we are against this ritual. And what ever we do there must be shown to the world. Videos of Jhatka and Tilak in Gurdwara must shown. Also the preparation of Bhang in Gurdwaras and condition of people, under a heavy dose of the same, must be shown. If these things are OK then tha same must be started in all Gurdwaras and if these rituals are un acceptable then these must be banned from all then Gurdwaras.:interestedsingh:


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## Randip Singh (Aug 14, 2011)

sachbol said:


> ਝਟਕਾ ਅਤੇ   ਬਕਰਾ ਝਟਕ ਕੇ ਬਲੀ ਦੇਣੀ ਅਤੇ ਬਕਰੇ ਦੀ ਸਿਰੀ ਗੁਰਦਵਾਰੇ ਵਿਚ ਲਿਜਾ ਕੇ ਸ਼ਾਸਤਰਾਂ ਨੂ ਤਿਲਕ ਲਗਾਉਣਾ ਅਲਗ ਅਲਗ ਗੱਲਾਂ ਹਨ.
> 
> we are against this ritual. And what ever we do there must be shown to the world. Videos of Jhatka and Tilak in Gurdwara must shown. Also the preparation of Bhang in Gurdwaras and condition of people, under a heavy dose of the same, must be shown. If these things are OK then tha same must be started in all Gurdwaras and if these rituals are un acceptable then these must be banned from all then Gurdwaras.:interestedsingh:



Are you saying Jhatka is a ritual?...and what has Bhang got to do with it? Please elaborate?


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## sachbol (Aug 15, 2011)

Randip Singh said:


> Are you saying Jhatka is a ritual?...and what has Bhang got to do with it? Please elaborate?



jhatka is not a ritual, it is a way to kill the animal for food. Jhatka in Gurdwara, carrying the head of goat inside Gurdwara and doing the tilak of arms is a ritual which some people like me may not like. I may be 100% wrong that is why i want to clear my doubt. Regarding Bhang in Gurdwaras I just added that it is ritual in so many Gurdwaras and there must be a diacussion on it also. Yes it is a different issue and must be discussed saparately. I accept my fault.japposatnamwaheguru:


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## Randip Singh (Aug 15, 2011)

sachbol said:


> jhatka is not a ritual, it is a way to kill the animal for food. Jhatka in Gurdwara, carrying the head of goat inside Gurdwara and doing the tilak of arms is a ritual which some people like me may not like. I may be 100% wrong that is why i want to clear my doubt. Regarding Bhang in Gurdwaras I just added that it is ritual in so many Gurdwaras and there must be a diacussion on it also. Yes it is a different issue and must be discussed saparately. I accept my fault.japposatnamwaheguru:



I see. Thanks.

Tilak is definitely a ritual. Something I think from the Rajputs. Sikhs adopted. I think Jhatka is not a ritual, but in this case is being used PART of a ritual.

Bhag is a different issue.


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## Scarlet Pimpernel (Aug 15, 2011)

In 2011 it would be more relevant if they practice shooting on a rifle range and if they still need blood to annoint, perhaps they could ask the goat to donate 1/2 a pint!


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Aug 15, 2011)

Randip Ji
you wrote..<<< Bhag is a different issue...>>>>

YOU ARE RIGHT IT IS..."EMBARASSINGLY SO...
AND  methinks you menat to write..bhaNg...typo of missing *N* transformed a *drug* into a  part..of the female anatomy ?????:sippingcoffee:


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## sachbol (Aug 15, 2011)

Sinner said:


> In 2011 it would be more relevant if they practice shooting on a rifle range and if they still need blood to annoint, perhaps they could ask the goat to donate 1/2 a pint!



We must suggest them to tie goats as targets in shooting range. nice idea


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