# Lust & Sexuality



## Anoop (Oct 26, 2007)

Im trying to make a new poat but i dont know how since the sites design and theme has changed...

But i really need help...as a teenager i have had many problems...and one of them being lust. I am embarrased to talk about this.... but it has to be done. I really don't want to talk about it, but i must... 

I had started puberty as every teenager goes through. But i regret to 'self-abuse', masturbation. I have had the priviledge to access dirty websites since becoming a teenager. I have become a slave of pornography... Since then, i would endulge in self abuse... self exploring myself...and afterwards...i have felt really dirty and very very depressed... i have become weak minded, very nervous and quickly embarrased... i am now 19 and still carry on this dirty behaviour. I just feel as if I have lost alot...and when i mean lost alot im talking about vital body energy...life force energy..which i think has led me to stop growing properly...i feel sick very often... and tired and its like a hellish experience which i cant describe... I feel as if the damage has already been done... i would use any means necessary to go to dirty websites and surf everyday...go on chatrooms which are bad.... im a really good person, and love my family...but since i was young, ive had these habbits and have felt like a sick puppet to pornography....i cant help it...and once i have finnished with this dirty session, i would feel so guilty and depressed...i would cry inside....i dont know whats wrong with me... i feel so fed up of life...


I try to ask myself what should i do? Start doing yoga...take cold baths to cure myself...what should i do? I feel so confused in life....i really feel its hard to stop thinking about the damage that is already caused...i just wish i could rewind my past...and stop this bad habbit...i feel a loss of speech and would cry inside suddenly..whenever i talk to anyone...Its hard to express myself...i have empty feelings inside of me....im really stressed!!
__________________


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## Sherab (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Help me please*

Nothing wrong with masturbation. You need to be more careful about *sex* though, do not indulge in that...  Better to deal with issues yourself then  use others for lustful needs...


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## Archived_Member_19 (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Help me please*

LOL

stop wallowing in self guilt...

all go through this and what is important is how you "outgrow" it and not "stop" it

 play sports and change your focus....get some hobby and maybe you will have lesser time at hand to play with yourself and then wallow in guilt


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## VazSingh (Dec 25, 2007)

*Re: Help me please*

I think many of us go through this phase. I have no idea how so many of us end up in this problem but it's common.

Based on personal experiances/friends experiances -

I would suggest:
- 1-  Working out // do lot's of physically demanding work. 
It's about keeping the body busy and eventually making it tired so it can't do anything. It also helps in releaving all that energy that is built up. In addition to this it keeps your mind from getting bored and wondering off into 'bad land'.

- 2 - Psychologically tune yourself. 
This method worked for me and two other mates. Basically, make a promise to yourself or create a little scanario in your mind where someone who hold dear to your will DIE if you ever masturbate again.OMG Simply having the idea that your sending someone to death if you dare take your brain into that direction has an immidate effect on your brain. It works as a regulator of some sort which prevents the brain from drifting off.

- 3 - SELF HARM WILL NOT WORK
Believe me. Grabbing a blade and slicing yourself or hitting yourself with a hammer will not work. It works on animals and prevents them from doing the wrong thing twice but as humans we simply don't learn! It ends up leaving some horrible marks too. (pictures are availible). Be sensible and try the other two methods listed above.

I hope that helped. :advocate:


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## Sikh80 (Dec 25, 2007)

*Re: Help me please*

This is all part of growing up.There is nothing unnatural about this. Keep yourself busy. Being a Sikh you can always start your day with a Paath of Jap ji sahib and in the evening tune in to some channel that relays Rehras sahib.

Be in the company of good friends. In your case it appears that you do not have good company.
In the end never indulge in self-pity. Just stop and carry on.


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## spnadmin (Dec 25, 2007)

*Re: Help me please*

Anoop ji

Look deeply into your heart when you think about my questions. Please do not respond until you are certain that you have really thought things through. You posted a similar comment in another thread. On this thread some respected forum members have taken your question at face value and have attempted advice in the most serious and genuine way. My questions: Why are you asking for advice regarding masturbation on an Internet forum and doing so in such minute detail? Did you seek advice from professional sources (a doctor, a therapist) before sharing your problem with us?


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## Archived_Member_19 (Dec 26, 2007)

*Re: Help me please*

does masturbation need shrink advice?


whoa....seems like suddenly Shrinks might get a lot busy.

but certainly if Anoop feels he is doing it in excess....and that is a relative term....i would rather use the term - uncontrollably..... he should see a shrink


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## spnadmin (Dec 26, 2007)

*Re: Help me please*

amarsanghera,

You answer shows great wit.


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## Sinister (Dec 26, 2007)

*Re: Help me please*

Oh my friends, 

We should not cringe at the discussion of sexuality (like school children). Masturbation is completely natural and without question, an integral and widespread practice. It is actually a healthy practice according to the medical field (you would be a freak if you hadn’t performed it). 

Here is a list of scientific and medical journals (these are all journal articles from leading professional that you can look up on you own time):

*The therapeutic effects of rational masturbation *
Journal of Rational- Emotive and Cognitive-Behaviour Therapy
Volume 13, Number 3


*Human Sperm Competition: Ejaculate Adjustment by Males and the Function of Masturbation *
Sperm Competition in Humans (book)

journal of biomedical sciences

*Endocrine response to masturbation-induced orgasm in healthy men following a 3-week sexual abstinence *
World Journal of Urology
Publisher
Springer Berlin / Heidelberg
ISSN
0724-4983 (Print) 1433-8726 (Online)
Issue
Volume 19, Number 5 (2001)


This is just the tip of the ice-burg. There are countless other fields of study on masturbation. There are countless more articles by the medical field and they all come to a consensus that this is natural and normal. There is nothing to be ashamed of. 

Masturbation is not something “you grow out of either”, you just replace it with sex. There have been many colourful attempts by the religious right and even some quack physicians that sadly try to pathologize masturbation (for there own personal gains). Masturbation is also individualistic in nature; some people do it more than others and it is normal in any case unless you feel you cannot do without it in any scenario. 

*Only certain kinds of people masturbate.*

Survey research debunks this myth that only certain people masturbate. Whether you are 19 or 99, religious and conservative or secular and liberal, whether you are a parent, grandparent, uncle or aunt, whether you get around on your own two legs or use a wheelchair, scooter, crutches, or roller-skates to get around, almost everyone has masturbated at some point in their lives, and most of us continue to do so.


We have to learn to embrace sexuality.


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## spnadmin (Dec 26, 2007)

*Re: Help me please*

Sinister

We are not cringing at a discussion of sexuality. We are cringing at the act of opening up the most personal aspects of our lives on the Internet. Not a safe practice even in SPN.

Think about the possibilities.


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## Sinister (Dec 26, 2007)

*Re: Help me please*

Aad0002,

I don’t think Anoop is asking us to open up our own personal lives on this issue. But he/she has made the conscious choice of opening up their most personal strife. The conundrum is; how do we receive them and how do we address the issue at hand.

This is a rather ambiguous forum.  (our identities are, for better or for worse, well protected). 

I guess this links back to my post on ‘internet discussions’…just how personal are our views on the net?
I don’t really know who Anoop is, nor do I feel a need to care who Anoop is. For all I know this could be a ‘make-believe’ scenario. (so I have effectively become the doctor or the shrink)

So let me answer for Anoop towards your question;


aad0002 said:


> My questions: Why are you asking for advice regarding masturbation on an Internet forum and doing so in such minute detail? Did you seek advice from professional sources (a doctor, a therapist) before sharing your problem with us?





Obviously someone with more ambiguity would be more comfortable in discussing sexuality on an online forum. The Internet has made it possible to discuss personal matters without “social risks” (people can get opinion, facts and consensus without any real risks of embarrassment). So going to the doctor or to a shrink is rather undesirable (let alone, expensive…well at least in some countries).  

again I think it goes back to my 'internet addiction' post where I discuss the implication of impersonalization in conversation.
 
Cheers


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## spnadmin (Dec 26, 2007)

*Re: Help me please*

Sinister ji

Good question you pose, "how do we address the issue at hand?"  How do we do that?

Here is what I was really concerned about, and after presenting my perspective on this, I will shut up.

Every single thread, and comments therein, are available to public view -- to all users of the Internet, including people suffering from morbid and illegal sexual perversions and those who are prepared to act out on them. So  you were thinking about the anonymous family members of SPN. And I was thinking about the ones who take their time cultivating online relationships which graduate to cyber stalking and cyber crime.  I was really worried for Anoop ji. Not "cringing" over explicit sexual content.

I found SPN by accident, googling a topic and I don't even remember what it was. But at least 3 times a week, when I am following up karma, free will, naam, and you name it, links to threads on SPN show up. So whenever someone is sharing one should remember that several million Internet consumers can read what one says. Reason for caution.


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## Admin (Dec 26, 2007)

*Re: Help me please*

A very valid point raised by aad002... well, we have a hard talk forum which is open only for members and one has to be registered member to read the content of topics in that forum. 

*Suggestion: 
Dear Forum Leaders, using your discretion, if you find any topic, which may require some privacy on that part of  posting individuals, you can move the topics to  Hard-Talk forum. 
*


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## spnadmin (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: Help me please*

Aman ji

Thank you for all of this valuable information. And thank you for understanding that the Internet is not an innocent place.


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## Sinister (Dec 28, 2007)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

Aad Ji,

how do we address the issue at hand?" How do we do that?

I think we can do that with some objectivity...not presenting personal explanations and examples but other facts that we recieve from medical sources (i think I did a dandy job).

yes we should be careful...good thing this was reposted in the Hard Talk section.


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## bade_ustaad (Dec 28, 2007)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

Dear Forum,

It surprises me to note that Mr Anoop has not re-appeared on the scene of his confession yet a number of members have repeatedly shown so much interest in his problem without really coming up with a suitable solution.

I have personally tried to give him some advice through PM. He has not responded back to me. I only hope it worked. or He may have just felt so humiliated by so much advice that he may have decided not to follow this thread.

I have not too long ago assisted a member of this Forum through PM's. The member is quite happy following his/her life. 

I am not claiming to be a master at this kind of work but it may be helpful to isolate these cases under a confidential thread and help those individuals through PM's rather barge them with a never ending thread of humiliation. 

My appologies for any offence caused.


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## spnadmin (Dec 28, 2007)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

respected baded_ustaad ji,

Not knowing what you wrote in a private message places us at a disadvantage in our reply. Nonetheless, you can probably guess from my own reactions on this thread that a public forum is not the best place to discuss personal information.


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## Sikh80 (Dec 28, 2007)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*



aad0002 said:


> respected baded_ustaad ji,
> 
> Not knowing what you wrote in a private message places us at a disadvantage in our reply. Nonetheless, you can probably guess from my own reactions on this thread that a public forum is not the best place to discuss personal information.


 Yes,it is not the best place esp. when the querist is absconding or might have learned the ways to control the urges.


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## bade_ustaad (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

Dear Members,

The issue is not of scoring points on what was said and what not. Either the forum entertains these plea's for help or it does not. If it does then yes there should be a seperate section where there is only one to one conversation (supervised by a Senior Forum Leader (to avoid abuse) or Admin/Forum Leader informs the queriest that there is no help available here etc. and the contents are removed from the Forum.

This is my humble suggestion.


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## drkhalsa (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

What I think is 

You are right in sense but I dont agree fully 

You are right that Such threads should be followed and closed  if they are not active or the query starter is absconding 

But Private advice is not the thing I will prefer as defies the concept of forum and opinions ( although this can go on in the background )

But would not advise it as part of forum and about the identity of the people on forum is HIDDEN as long as he wishes and so there is noQuestion of being Humiliated


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## spnadmin (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

drkhalsa ji

I understand what you say about the forum. But you are never completely hidden in a forum. Individuals on the prowl are looking for prey. The are like predators -- they can smell their prey. Sharing a lot of personal information is like vulnerability to them. They don't have your address of course. But then what they do is cultivate relationships, go to private messaging, get more information about you that way. You are their target. And they are very patient. They then follow you from forum to forum, spreading rumors using cyber bullying. Or they are very kind and seem to care. Next you are being followed everywhere and even to your front door. This is no exaggeration.


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## stupidjassi (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

WJJKWJKF,

my observations:

1. more you think of sex, you find yourself in sex.
2. More you read , wathch porn, you find yourself in porn.
3. Do NOT completely reject masturbation because it is a natural phenomenon. Excess and  absence of masturbation will cause  physical disorder.
4. Practice absentee till marriage if not because guru says, then because of AIDS and involvement in pregnancy etc.
5. practice Naam simran or gurbani everyday ( preffered mor time) . and TURST ME, it does help. because then your subconscious just turn your focus to god rather than sex.

6. Having thoughts of sex / lust means =>
-> you are spending time in home doing nothing
-> you have nothing productive to do
-> you are shy by nature and do not indulge with people
-> you think too much 

7. Always remember , SEX is break of Horror and Horror is break of sex
( if you feeling excessive feeling of sex, watch horror, or read horror ,etc. reading about death, blood, wars, our history etc. )

8. Practice GATKA, or join any physical activity like gym , yoga etc. In this way your body will not allow you to indulge in masturbation and sex. (that`s the best way i found )

if you find this helpful , please let me know
stupidjassi


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## drkhalsa (Jan 1, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*



> drkhalsa ji
> 
> I understand what you say about the forum. But you are never completely hidden in a forum. Individuals on the prowl are looking for prey. The are like predators -- they can smell their prey. Sharing a lot of personal information is like vulnerability to them. They don't have your address of course. But then what they do is cultivate relationships, go to private messaging, get more information about you that way. You are their target. And they are very patient. They then follow you from forum to forum, spreading rumors using cyber bullying. Or they are very kind and seem to care. Next you are being followed everywhere and even to your front door. This is no exaggeration.



Dear Add Ji 


I got your point ! and this is the reason I would discourage everybody to use PM ( personal message ) to be in contact with somebody until unless you are pretty sure who he/she is .

Thanks for good advice !




> if you find this helpful , please let me know
> stupidjassi



Dear Friend 

All your suggestion are really worth in my opinion it will definately help many .
Thanks for sharing it !


Jatinder Singh


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## spnadmin (Jan 1, 2008)

*Re: Help me please*

Anoop!

This is what you just recently posted.

_i am now 19 and still carry on this dirty behaviour. I just feel as if I have lost alot...and when i mean lost alot im talking about vital body energy...life force energy..which i think has led me to stop growing properly...i feel sick very often... and tired and its like a hellish experience which i cant describe... I feel as if the damage has already been done... i would use any means necessary to go to dirty websites and surf everyday...go on chatrooms which are bad.... im a really good person, and love my family...but since i was young, ive had these habbits and have felt like a sick puppet to pornography....i cant help it...and once i have finnished with this dirty session, i would feel so guilty and depressed...i would cry inside....i dont know whats wrong with me... i feel so fed up of life...

_It sounds like you are willing to move forward -- because you are showing regret. If all of this is eating away at you and you are aware of its effects on your life, then it is not too late to change.

My earlier remarks were met with some criticism. But I REPEAT -- you can be helped but need to get professional help. You are going to porn sites. You can't seem to stop behavior that is causing you a lot of pain. Nothing you have tried has worked. I sounds like a sex addiction to me. No diffferent from alcohol or drug addictions. Except people think that is ridiculous. It is not ridiculous. And addictions throw a person's life into chaos. Life is wasted.

So maybe you cannot solve this on your own. There is nothing wrong with seeking the help of doctors and therapists who specialize in sex addictions.  Get professional help. 

The forum will try to support you with advice and even with "hard talk" -- but we don't walk in your shoes and we cannot give the support that in the end will help you. Don't waste anymore time thinking, talking and suffering. 

If you don't know how to find this help where you live, let me know and I will do some research for you.


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## drkhalsa (Jan 1, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

Dear Add ji 


I agree fully with you 
For the first time I read what Anoop has written 
It shows clearly that he /she is kind of depressed  and this seems to be the main issue and not the sexual issue 

So DEFINATELY i WOULD ALSO ADVICE ANOOP TO GET SOME PROFESSIONAL HELP!!


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## spnadmin (Jan 1, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

drkhalsa ji

Thanks. I had logged off and then thought about what you said about "depression". After a while friends and family will start scolding that person, tell them to change the way they think, or just shut down and refuse to discuss things. 

This link lays out the kind of pain Anoop describes.  
Criteria for Sex Addiction

And you are right. Depression is lying underneath the behavior. Good that you saw that. It got me thinking more.


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## consfused boy (Jan 2, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

Is masturbation considered a sin in sikhism? Every time I masturbate I think it is a sin for some reason. I don't think I do it too often. But then again I've never really asked anyone else how much they do it if they do it at all. I ask God for forgiveness. But I don't know if he does forgive or if I'm even doing anything wrong. I see from other posts though it seems like you guys say it is natural. It's kind of embarrasing to even write this. 
Thank you.


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## stupidjassi (Jan 2, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

Well,
Masturbation not a sin. The reason behind is because its natural. But you should be aware of the fact that 'It is not good for your body' as well as your mind and which of course ultimately leads to sin.

I have forgotten the Page no. in SGGS ( which clearly talk about masturbation. But you can search for it and please let me know if you find it )  But i remember the message. SGGS says that ' our semen is made from ( i guess ) 60 types of nutritions and vitamins , which are vital for human body, So why do waste them for pleasure?' 

Finally i just wanna say that try to breath whenever you find yourself in these problems, and try to Do NAAM SIMRAN.  

Tell you what, Now Masturbation is an issue with you but as you grow in naam simran you`ll find this problem to be solved automatically. Just let it be natural and protect yourself from five sins.

You may also find this helpful What is the Sikh attitude towards masturbation? | Sikhism101.com | UniversalFaith.net 

bhul chuk maf
stupidjassi







consfused boy said:


> Is masturbation considered a sin in sikhism? Every time I masturbate I think it is a sin for some reason. I don't think I do it too often. But then again I've never really asked anyone else how much they do it if they do it at all. I ask God for forgiveness. But I don't know if he does forgive or if I'm even doing anything wrong. I see from other posts though it seems like you guys say it is natural. It's kind of embarrasing to even write this.
> Thank you.


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## spnadmin (Jan 2, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

Short note:

Keep in mind the difference between expressions of sexuality that are natural and sexual compulsions that throw the rest of your life into chaos because you cannot get it out of your mind. The world and its material reality can be a beautiful thing, and a gift from God. To be *trapped* in Maya means to be obsessed with the physical world. Mistaking the physical world for the greater Truth.


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## Sikh80 (Jan 2, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

Very well said respected aad ji. masturbation is natural but seeking advice abt. it is not. Let the kids play around till thier parents listen to the Bells., godwilling,........


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## consfused boy (Jan 2, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

so it is not a sin and I should not worrying about wronging God everytime I do it? Also I have read some of those articles and they seem very contradicting to a ton of other articles regarding the benefits/disadvantages of masturbating. For instance, most of the articles say it is not any of these:
 Fatigue
* Feeling tired all the time
* Lower back pain
* Stress / Anxiety
* Thinning hair / Hair Loss
* Soft / Weak Erection
* Premature Ejaculation
* Eye floaters or fuzzy vision
* Groin / Testicular Pain
* Peyronie's disease
* Pain or cramp in the pelvic cavity or/and tail b
found in the article posted above. 
Is it considered lust? Thanks for letting me know.


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## Sikh80 (Jan 2, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

I had a paint that was very long and my friend suggested that it I should get it 'cut' to size and I did I was happy thereafter and never bothered any Forum with my question of my paint.
May be it helps.


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## consfused boy (Jan 2, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

What??? DO you say I got my answer I should stop asking now? 
Thanks.


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## Sikh80 (Jan 2, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

I said 'May be it helps". It is subjective assessment of the things.No.....what do you think..You can always ask....... but you are also free to change the venue....No..,if you so wish''......else we will always help you out..........


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## consfused boy (Jan 2, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

okay Thank you. It does help. I spend a lot of time  and energy on punishing myself for my actions if I have masturbated. I think it is because I don't want God to do the punishing. I don't know though. But anyways, this will help me a lot now that I know I am not commiting a sin. 
Thank you.


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## spnadmin (Jan 2, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*



consfused boy said:


> okay Thank you. It does help. I spend a lot of time  and energy on punishing myself for my actions if I have masturbated. I think it is because I don't want God to do the punishing. I don't know though. But anyways, this will help me a lot now that I know I am not commiting a sin.
> Thank you.



If you are not constantly thinking and worried. If you are not avoiding life and people. If you are not changing your day's activity because of the compulsion to masturbate. If you are not always afraid you will be caught, or that others somehow "know". If you are not exhausted by your fears and worries. You are OK.

The other thing that needs to be said in a Sikh forum -- there is nothing wrong with spending some quality time asking Akaal Purakh :star: for insight when you are not sure. You will not be judged, scolded, told to take up a hobby, advised to straighten out your thinking,  dragged off to a baba for a good dressing down, rejected or ignored, lectured, snubbed, or treated like a freak.


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## consfused boy (Jan 2, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

more like I feel the need to clean everything. disenfect everything that I may have touched after masturbation. Including taking a long shower. then I ask God for fogiveness usually. but now I probably won't have to since it isn't a sin. I only do it maybe twice a week or once a week.  however I will not go crazy.


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## punjabikiren (Jan 3, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

keep urself busy all the time


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## consfused boy (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

what about looking at pictures when someone masturbates. is that a sin? in terms of lust. it is very hard to do it without pictues if at all probably for some.


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## stupidjassi (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*



consfused boy said:


> what about looking at pictures when someone masturbates. is that a sin? in terms of lust. it is very hard to do it without pictues if at all probably for some.


ok now, Yes it is sin.  Masturbation in this kind of sense is surely sin. Sin to your body first and then to your mind ultymatly sin. As i said before, masturbation might not be a sin but it  does LEED to sin. So i just wanna say , ' you become wht you think'. 
I wanna ask you to do a simple practice. 'Close your eyes and DONT think of a monkey which has long tail' . Can you do that?
No .because , you are keep thinking of monkey which has long tail. Same way, if you think abot masturbation you`ll never get rid of it. 
I personally recommend you , to read bani. Japji sahib in mor and rehras sahib in eve. AND TRUST ME , this `ll does help. It worked for me as well.
so stop thinking talking about masturbation because as you more think abot it, i`ll be more problem for you. BUt when you`ll forget abot ut, you`ll realise that it`ll be no longer a problem.

So read bani and have with it. 
leave stupid fun (masturbation) and taste the real one.

stupidjassi


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## ikebalsingh (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

SORATH, FIFTH MEHL, SECOND HOUSE,  ASHTAPADEES:​ ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE  GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU:​ * 	They read scriptures, and contemplate the Vedas; they practice the  inner cleansing techniques of Yoga, and control of the breath. But they cannot  escape from the company of the five passions; they are increasingly bound to  egotism. || 1 || O Beloved, this is not the way to meet the Lord; I have  performed these rituals so many times. I have collapsed, exhausted, at the Door  of my Lord Master;* I pray that He may grant me a discerning intellect. || Pause  || One may remain silent and use his hands as begging bowls, and wander naked  in the forest. He may make pilgrimages to river banks and sacred shrines all  over the world, but his sense of duality will not leave him. || 2 || His minds  desires may lead him to go and dwell at sacred places of pilgrimage, and offer  his head to be sawn off; but this will not cause the filth of his mind to  depart, even though he may make thousands of efforts. || 3 || He may give gifts  of all sorts  gold, women, horses and elephants. He may make offerings of  corn, clothes and land in abundance, but this will not lead him to the Lords  Door. || 4 || He may remain devoted to worship and adoration, bowing his  forehead to the floor, practicing the six religious rituals. He indulges in  egotism and pride, and falls into entanglements, but he does not meet the Lord  by these devices. || 5 || He practices the eighty-four postures of Yoga, and  acquires the supernatural powers of the Siddhas, but he gets tired of  practicing these. He lives a long life, but is reincarnated again and again; he  has not met with the Lord. || 6 || He may enjoy princely pleasures, and regal  pomp and ceremony, and issue unchallenged commands. He may lie on beautiful  beds, perfumed with sandalwood oil, but this will led him only to the gates of  the most horrible hell. || 7 || *Singing the Kirtan of the Lords Praises in the  Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, is the highest of all actions.* Says  Nanak, he alone obtains it, who is pre-destined to receive it. || 8 || Your  slave is intoxicated with this Love of Yours. The Destroyer of the pains of the  poor has become merciful to me, and this mind is imbued with the Praises of the  Lord, Har, Har. || Second Pause || 1 || 3 ||  	 

Monday, 13th Poh (Samvat 538 Nanakshahi)  (Page: 641)


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## Satjot Kaur (Jan 23, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

This is what happens when religion gets too restrictive. God gave us bodies. Those bodies get sexual urges because that is the way God made these bodies. Why would you be embarrassed about God's work?

As humans, we have the extra responsibility of control over our animal bodies. True control only comes from understanding God's intent. Self-control is only the individual's ego screaming to be heard. Understand that last sentence carefully, because it does not mean that we should not control ourselves. It only speaks to the how and why of controlling ourselves. Self control that is not of God's will is called stubbornness, and there are consequences - like obsession.

In countries where a woman's ankle is considered a sexual thing, the men find a bare ankle unbearably arousing. In countries that saw the mini-skirt go in and out of fashion, and where bikinis are what women use for swimwear, an ankle is just the part of the body that connects the foot to the leg.

What is it that you have an issue with? That you masturbate and some prudish religion says that's bad? It doesn't matter who says what - including me - but it is the why that matters.

Yes, masturbation is particularly bad for guys when you lose precious bodily nutrients, especially zinc, so be sure to take your vitamins. It is also good for guys as it releases toxins, decreases blood pressure, and has a variety of other health benefits. The true issue is moderation. If you are not doing something that you ought to be doing because you are whacking off too often, then whacking off is bad - but the same could be said of anything. If you are not doing what you are supposed to be doing because you are too busy playing video games, then video games are bad. Neither masturbation nor video games are inherently a sin - it is how you use these things in your life that matters.

Looking at pornography - at this point, sometimes it is close impossible to know the karma on that one. If the person in the porn is being degraded, watching that and getting aroused by that kills your soul in large chunks. If the person is unashamed and enjoying it, and is being treated well, and you are not causing any harm by watching it, then it is not a sin. The truth behind that last sentence is difficult to ascertain because we don't always know whether a person is actually enjoying that or was manipulated into pornography.

If you need pornography to masturbate, then you do not need to masturbate. If an image is in your head so much that it is a distraction to you, the relief may be to masturbate. Looking at porn to work yourself up is unreasonable.


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## drkhalsa (Jan 24, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

Dear Satjot Kaur 


Thanks for such a thought ful post 

In my opinion each and every thought you have put there is real worth sharing !

and thanks for that 

Jatinder Singh


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## satwant (Feb 3, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

I must congratulate you for having the courage to share the most intimate details of yourself at a forum like this. Glad that you realise that you think you have a problem and is prepared to allow us to advice and at the same time learn from it.

I am hoping that more and more Sikh individuals would come forth and share their concerns on this platform so that appropriate and constructive advice can be given so that all of us can learn.

I am no doctor/shrink and dont profess to know the solutions to your "problem". It would seem that you do not have enough distractions like sports, work, and  maybe community service to take your mind off the act. 

The world out there needs us and hopefully you will take this opportunity to make a difference rather than spent that time surfing porn. Even if you do surf porn, learn to limit it. Easier said than done, I suppose for a lot of those who think of lust every single moment.

Satwant


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## consfused boy (Mar 29, 2008)

*Re: Help me please - (Lust & Sexuality)*

Thank you. So basically I should not ever punish/feel bad about masturbation. as long as I don't go crazy with it and spend hours and hours away from people because of it it should be okay?

.and I also should keep to a minimum. I always think god might think I am a very bad person because of this. 

Thank you.


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## consfused boy (Apr 2, 2008)

Can anyone that knows about Sikhism clarify please? 
Thank you.


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## Archived_Member4 (Apr 15, 2008)

Confused boy

This is a sensitive topic and people really need to think and analyze backwards to give you a detailed answer that does not leave loose ends that will mislead you.

Having these feelings are normal and everyone when they reach a certain age gets aroused by different things in life.  So don’t feel bad when your mind goes into the state where it indulges into a fantasy about a woman’s body.  What we have to do as a human to find a way to not distract but to control these fantasies.  It requires self control of the body and mind.  The next time you get these feelings think about what you are looking at and how you are sitting.  So stop what you are doing and try this simple self control exercise.  Works best if you are sitting crossed legged.  First straighten out your spine so you are not hunched over.  Then  place your hands together like you are about to do ardas and then place them in between your chest and your elbows close to your sides then close your eyes and take a deep breath in hold it for about 10 seconds then let it go and do not breathe for another 10 seconds holding your breath out for the same amount of time. Slowly increase the time when you hold your breath in and out from 10 to about 30 seconds going up each time by 10 seconds.  Once you have reached 2 minutes hold the same posture and breathe normally.  Wait about 30 seconds then start repeating the mantra:   

hum vi hum tum vi tum Waheguru, 
I am by my myself Waheguru

This is a simple mantra that helps clear your mind of any thoughts.  Because that is how a person starts indulging into a fantasy, first it is built in your mind and then the person’s body gets involved into that fantasy and the person is no longer in reality.  Do not give up on the first try because the mind still can be all over the place thinking am I doing it right or not.  Just relax and try to focus on your breathing and when you are doing the mantra focus on what you are saying and pace yourself no need to rush. Repeat the mantra for 5 minutes.  

Leave me a private message on this page or a public one; let me know if it worked for you


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## consfused boy (Jul 13, 2008)

Thank you very much. 
See on one hand people are telling me its natural and normal to masturbate and have the urges. on the other they are giving me methods to stop doing it. to be honest I dont really want to stop doing it because I will probably go crazy trying to stop myself. and if I do stop for a long time I get wet dreams. which means those fluids are finding a way out one way or the other. I only masturbate once in a while and usually without porn but I just want to know if its okay with the man up there to do this. some people said its natural and that its normal so the man up there would have no problem. others say it is a sin and claim a whole lot of negative effects. I feel a lot of tension if I dont do it. I mean a lot. and I am a very active person. I am not speaking of masturbating to the point where its obssessive and crazy. others in this post said outright that its not a sin to masturbate. is there anyone else who can or wants to confirm that or deny it. 
Thank you for sharing with others this very touchy topic.


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## Admin (Jul 13, 2008)

There is a mention of word "semen" in Guru Granth Sahib Ji... you can search for this word in English translations here --> http://www.sikhism.us/English Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib.pdf


Please search for word : semen, you will find this word at:

1. Panna : 63
2. Panna : 903
3. Panna : 906
4. Panna : 945
5. Panna : 1036
6. Panna : 1160


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## Canuck Singh (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help me please*



Sinister said:


> Oh my friends,
> 
> We should not cringe at the discussion of sexuality (like school children). Masturbation is completely natural and without question, an integral and widespread practice. It is actually a healthy practice according to the medical field (you would be a freak if you hadn’t performed it).
> 
> ...



*I am sorry, I have to argue that this is absolute bs. *

 The research is unequivocal to say the least what harm/benefit is apparent from this behaviour. 

 Significant side-effects were specifically mentioned by the original poster. Including depression, hormonal changes, and other things I will avoid stating here.

 Here are some issues that I have with this argument which I will when I have time back with Neuro-endocrine and biochemical reasoning:

- does influence depression
- affects the neuro-endocrine axis and hormone pathways
- induces premature coming
- affects relationships
- can lead to onset of balding
- can influence optimum testosterone production
- can lead to self inflicted harm/abrasion
- can negatively affect the psyche causing increase anxiety/illness

Additionally:
-> Effect of Overstimulation
Overstimulation of the mind-body, affects the brain/nervous bioelectric circuit breaker, the exhaustion of the hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal/-testicular axis, very possibly or likely including the hypothalamus-pituitary-thyroid dysfunction too, resulting from *the Nervous Excitotoxicity and Inflammation induced by excessive norepinephrine, epinephrine and glutamate (& other excitory neurohormones, for a short-term pleasure reward and the long-term dopamine depletion) and Prostaglandin E2! The hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) exhaustion results in the erratic release of CRH (corticotropin releasing hormone), POMC (proopinomelanocortin), ACTH (adrenocorticotropc hormone), ß-lipotropic hormone, ß-endorphin, α-melanocyte-stimulating hormone (α-MSH), ß-MSH, CA (catecholamines) and TSH (thyroid stimulation hormone), in response to stress, sex and environmental/dyshomeostatic stimuli. Since skin and hair follicles also display a functional equivalent of the HPA axis, sexual exhaustion will also extensively affect your skin (for examples: darkening skins in certain areas such as eye cycles, nips, foreskin, perineum and groins, due to excessive release or trapping of the POMC peptide α-MSH which is also an anti-inflammatory and immunomodulating hormone - anti-tissue abrasion!) and the hair (for examples: hair loss in the scalp and gray hair, but it won't grow hair in your palms although it will destroy your HPA axis.) 

--> Effect of Porno
One may experience: * Exhaustion with excessive norepinephrine, epinephrine, glutamate and histamine release for headaches, anxiety, stress, no concentration (ADD, attention deficiency disorder?) , eye redness, low energy, fatigue, and going limp. Overproduction of androgen hormones, causing adrenal and sex organ fatigue.muscles and joints become very tight and rigid upon release. An extremely exhausted adrenal function can cause an extreme low level of DHEA and cortisol, resulting in fatigue and pains throughout the body, including the back.

--> Effect of Self pleasure
This has additional far reaching effects that even Dr.s and mainstream individuals don't realise. Can hyperactivate the enzyme *Monoamine oxidases (*MAO) for dopamine-DOPAL conversion , where DOPAL stands for 3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetaldehyde. DOPAL is a potent neurotoxin to cause Parkinson's-like brain lesions, and its resulted cognitive impairment is very similar to autism. In addition to DOPAL, norepinephine and epinephrine can be converted to 3,4-dihydroxyphenylglycoaldehyde (DOPEGAL) by MAO too. DOPEGAL has been found to trigger apoptosis and cause the loss of CNS neurons. Therefore, the synergic destructive effects of both DOPAL and DOPEGAL accelerates death of nerve cells, as seen in SIDS (sudden infant death syndrome), Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s disease, and dysfunctional disorders of development and aging.

In summary: Laiman's terms...
- Any type of sexual activity (pornography, self pleasing, etc.) can cause the following effects.
* Premature *&^*&^# (you know what)
* Anxiety
* Indirect Hairloss (over long term)
* Depressive symptoms, and disease like symptoms (Alzheimers Parkinsons - over a longer term)
*  Pain symtoms, low back or other
* Lethargy or Apathy towards life
* Inability to arouse (when married for example)
* Chronic imbalance in hormones
* Chronic parasympathetic innervation abrasion (nervous cell Axonotmesis - which is a term that describes damange to nerve endings).
* Impotence
* Prostatic Swelling
* ADDITION: STDs if one is promiscous can accentuate any of the above
* Damange to Adrenals or other Visceral Organs.
* *** THE LIST CAN GO ON AND ON.

So as per above I agree that any pre-maritcal obscenities can cause significant problems., And like some of the thread responses it does need to be discussed, because people may have these problems but not be willing to talk about it.

Now for one thing, don't get me wrong I am not saying that se* is bad. What I am stating from the above is the physiological effects of the acts stated. However, the same does not apply for married couples and I'll tell you why.

MARRIED COUPLES BENEFIT BECAUSE:
* The heart rate is raised sufficiently to induce an appropriate cellular environment and protein turnover rate for appropriate hormone production and functioning
* Abrasion is unlikely preventing Nervous damage
* Normal patterns of Neuro input occur (arousal, hormone release) and early coming is not influenced. *The body is a biomechanical, engineered machine, it can run optimally if it does what it is designed to do.
* Appropriate nerves are stimulated, as well as hormone release (oxytocin) to enhanced the Love between married people (This is why I mention Married people, as multiple partners has the issue of STDs - which I wont discuss here, and the nervous system is not negatively stimulated by stress hormones due to lack of commitment, or if a person perceives it to be taboo etc.)

TO SUMMARISE:
- Pornography, self excitement, and over stimulation lead to a host of neuro-endocrinological problems that MOST people will not be willing to share or talk about because it is a touchy issue, and becaue of the Internet and Promicuity of people today and POOR Advice people are going to PRIVATELY SUFFER.
- Sexual excitement of any kind is perfectly okay when shared between a Loving couple.

IF ANYONE HAS experienced any problems due to the above, please send me a private message and I will explain solutions (which even your Dr's won't be able to tell you) to over come Stress related, or other issues. *** I AM A HEALTH PROFESSIONAL AND SCIENTIST - no Lie I am willing to explain any of my statements, and to post Evidence if required. If you want to talk about anything in confidence I will show you solutions to overcome what can manifest into a chronic problem, possibly influencing a person's married life further down the road.


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## Canuck Singh (Jul 20, 2008)

consfused boy said:


> Thank you very much.
> See on one hand people are telling me its natural and normal to masturbate and have the urges. on the other they are giving me methods to stop doing it. to be honest I dont really want to stop doing it because I will probably go crazy trying to stop myself. and if I do stop for a long time I get wet dreams. which means those fluids are finding a way out one way or the other. I only masturbate once in a while and usually without porn but I just want to know if its okay with the man up there to do this. some people said its natural and that its normal so the man up there would have no problem. others say it is a sin and claim a whole lot of negative effects. I feel a lot of tension if I dont do it. I mean a lot. and I am a very active person. I am not speaking of masturbating to the point where its obssessive and crazy. others in this post said outright that its not a sin to masturbate. is there anyone else who can or wants to confirm that or deny it.
> Thank you for sharing with others this very touchy topic.



Dear Ji

 Please allow some time to read my above post. What you are setting yourself up for now is significant para-sympathetic nervous system issues that you will eventually resort to drugs to resolve. Forget the part about whether it is a sin or not, and listen closely. If you want to have a fulfilling and loving relationship in the future you will benefit from avoiding this activity. You will influence your hormonal pathways, and you will cause problems such as premature coming, influence of hair loss amongst other issues. You will wonder what is going no and you will look towards doctor's for advice, and they do not know how to solve these issues, and you will be given drugs and then you will look for external aids, which will just cause greater problems down the line. 

Please take time to send me a personal message and I will provide you with natural and holistic measures to overcome these issues and prevent further deterioration of your neuro-endocrine axis. Causing greater problems unbeknowest to you or any of these self proclaimed experts who are giving you illegitimate advice.

Regards


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## Jaspreet08 (Jul 20, 2008)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

My 2 cents on the topic:
- From personal experience I've found that the more you try to control these urges - the worse off you become. You create enormous internal pressure. It is better to see them and feel them as natural part of being human. Try honor them, instead of simply going with them.
- Secondly, I don't think it is a sin to masturbate. But as some mentioned earlier in a post - it can lead to host of poor decisions or "sins". I cannot speak for anyone else, but I for one am not spiritually developed enough where I can simply do it, and not be attached it. The same for sex - it is a natural, very fun experience, but we - spiritually underdeveloped people - get so attached to the experience that it can lead to harm for ourselves or our partner.
- Try to go slow, my friend. Be easy on yourself. Ask the Infinitely Merciful Creator for strength.

Jaspreet


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## Canuck Singh (Jul 20, 2008)

> - From personal experience I've found that the more you try to control these urges - the worse off you become. You create enormous internal pressure. It is better to see them and feel them as natural part of being human. Try honor them, instead of simply going with them.


In regards to this whole situation, I would not say that the solution is to 'control' these urges. However, if anyone distrusts the science, the research, the nature towards being happy and healthy, go ahead and try it. You will drive yourself into a hole, and it will get deeper and deeper. It is unsafe for anyone on this thread to encourage or say that such behavior is healthy. Because it is not, as it will lead to real physical problems.


> - Secondly, I don't think it is a sin to masturbate. But as some mentioned earlier in a post - it can lead to host of poor decisions or "sins". I cannot speak for anyone else, but I for one am not spiritually developed enough where I can simply do it, and not be attached it. The same for sex - it is a natural, very fun experience, but we - spiritually underdeveloped people - get so attached to the experience that it can lead to harm for ourselves or our partner.


Again not questioning the Spiritual nature of the question at hand. Nature is Pure and honest, and the human physiology is designed to be in its natural stable form. Even the way we breathe when we breathe 'unnaturally' alters our physiology causing stress, anxiety and dysfunction. Once again, no one here is able to physically prevent others from doing harm but here is an analogy. Once individuals thought that Smoking had no harm or consequence, the state of the diseased individuals says otherwise. What was commonly thought as good is now deemed destructive. The same goes with the harmful effects of alcohol, contributing to diseases such as alzhemiers, peripheral neuropathies, parkinsons, disrupting pregnancy amongst others. The same goes with self pleasuring, it is not natural and it will cause physiological changes in the brain, in the hormones of the body which will in the long run cause more harm than good, including all the above listed issues


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## ikebalsingh (Jul 29, 2008)

HI abc.def

Human nature is same as ur id name. It will go smoothly then it makes little turn and becomes blank at dot and then again start smoothly for a while. Thats why if u read guru granth sahib ji it also talks about human dual nature.

Sometimes he is animal full with kam, krodh, lobh, moh n hankaar and sometimes he is timid deer. Fearful of god after he comes in contact with some worldly activities like 
*
Seeing death of someone* 
His senses react n says to him. "Hey this is truth. We all have to end here."

*Waiting for a examination result*

He goes to gurudwara with a demand."Hey god plz give me good grades"


*.......Etc.,Etc *Examples are unending.

So overall he is animal as well as human. But do u know what differentiate us from animal. Its only the controlling power with in us. As a human we will think about keeping food for someone but as animal we wont. As animal is the time when ur self or ur human form is being overtaken by Maya of the world. This is the time when u have to fight within urself. This is the time when power of control comes in use. 
I know its hard to do that bt atleast we can try n we will suceed  in using that energy somewhere else.
Kind regards
iqbal singh


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## consfused boy (Aug 4, 2008)

The question at hand is not whether or not masturbation is healthy. It is whether the Sikh religion considers it a sin. I am begginning to think that masturbation is actually a natural thing and that I have to accept it and get on with my day. I can spend a ton of mental energy to stop myself, which can cause me a lot of anxiety and stress, probably more stress than just masturbating and getting over it. I'm not sure if the Sikh religion believes this as a sin though and that is what I am trying to spark discussion over. This is a topic that everyone probably has to deal with and this website is the only place they can really express thier opinions/answers. People may have an extremely difficult time trying to ask their parents, and their parents may not be right on whether or not it is a sin. 
Thank you. 
any other opinions?


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## pk70 (Aug 5, 2008)

"I can spend a ton of mental energy to stop myself, which can cause me a lot of anxiety and stress, probably more stress than just masturbating and getting over it."

*That is what canucksingh tried to explain you, his comments are worthy of attention as you are still in that situation. 
Regarding" if it is a sin", you wont find anywhere in Sikhism that it is a sin save for a advice not to give  importance to Lust, access of sex is defined as lust, sex is not prohibited in Sikhism if it was, why family life would be advocated by Guru ji? Professional can advise you better how not to become slave of lust as they deal with total system - urges and their effects on body. I strongly believe that if it is allowed to go in high gear, it ends in addiction which should be dealt as a disease.*


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## ikebalsingh (Aug 6, 2008)

I hope confused boy *canucksingh  *explained you n then pk70 n then me again. 
Try to understand what is lust thinking about sex again n again. I mean a person is sick. 

We have a dual nature sometimes its animal n sometimes its human in this kalyug. If we are given a birth of human then it means we should not behave like animal. we should try to control ourselves.

*What  makes you think masturbation is actually a natural thing:* It is then when you cant control and time you have to spend a ton of mental energy to stop this, which can cause you a lot of anxiety and stress, probably more stress than just masturbating and getting over it.

*What  makes masturbation unnatural thing:* 
-When you see porn to make yourself aroused.
-When you are sick n try to think nothing else but sex specially when talking or seeing females or opposite sex members.
-When you are doing it over n over again n making it a habit.your body is also a system which will start reacting with your habit.

*SIKH RELIGION NEVER SAYS A NATURAL THING AS SIN.* 

Plz try to know what is natural n unnatural.Ask yourself as you are decider.

There are lots of ways of controlling it. It doesnt mean that you require tons of mental energy to stop it but if you listen kirtan n be in company of saints n also yoga n meditation can help you a lot.

 I know its hard to do that bt atleast we can try n we will suceed  in using that energy somewhere else.
 Kind regards
 iqbal singh


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## consfused boy (Aug 10, 2008)

Thank you Iqbal for your response and everyone else's. I feel you have made some good points, however some of the wording is making some points a little unclear. So Iqbal, I want to recap your last post into shorter statements and please do correct me if I have misinterpreted your statements. 

1) We are human and that means we DO have the ability to control ourselves.
2) Being humans, we still have animal like instincts, hormone imbalances that occur naturally and signals in our body's to tell us when we have to pee, number 2 etc. we also get Sexual urges. 

3)Are you saying:  If one feels this sexual tension building up and releases it though masturbation it is okay. It is not considered a sin as it is the humans way of getting rid of this tension. Almost a natural thing like having to do the number 2 in the washroom. or having to pee. we feel the tension and then we pee..... tension gone. 


4) You are saying that one shouldn't look at porn to get aroused and create this sexual tension on purpose and shouldn't think about sex etc all the time.

Please read #3 carefully and any other please comment. These are not necessarily my opinions or Iqbal's opinions, however comments on the validity on the statements in regards to the Sikh religion are much appreciated. 
Thank you all.


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## Jaspreet08 (Aug 25, 2008)

Canuck Singh said:


> - Sexual excitement of any kind is perfectly okay when shared between a Loving couple.


I was kinda resistant to this statement when I first read, but my gut feeling is that you are right. Sex between a loving couple has to have a way different neuro-chemical response. 

You mentioned the release of oxytocin during sex. Can you explain its role? I know it is used during pregnancy and for lactation.


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## Sagefrakrobatik (Aug 31, 2008)

I havent read all the post but this is my take on sexuality.  First let me just say I have masturbated before but I dont let it control me. Maybe once or twice a year. Although I was raised Catholic, Catholics tradition teaches sex is only allowed in marriage and is only allowed for procreation purposes, in other words contraception and condoms are out of the question. It has been almost 7 yrs since the last time I was physically intimate with a female. It wasnt religion that made me abstain from sexual activity it was my little sister. Around this time I heard all these stories and all these guys who were trying to get with my sister it hurt at the time and it was hard for me to have relationship with females because I would always think of my sister. Well now she lives with her   boyfriend and I have grown to accept that. They've been together for almost a year now, so I'm fairly impressed. I believe that sexual intimacy should be dependent on the degree of initmacy and the amount of time the two have been dating. It should be a reflection of the level of commitment the two has had for each other. Just dont become a slave to your sexuality. Dont let sexuality be the only thing that defines you. 
Its hard for Muslims to because they cant even date! Also, some legends state that everytime you masturbate it is like killing Ali 80s! Imagine that! If I was raised in that culture I could possibly relate but the truth of the matter is that its hard for me to grasp these restrictions on sexuality because most of the people Ive known have failed in their relationships or atleast have failed a few times with previous ones to come to the one they are at now. Its impossible to get it right at the first time. My cousin was dating this girl for 7 yrs and she got an annulment a year after they got married. Human beings are so complex and there are so many of us out their its impossible to tell who we should spend the rest of our lives with without some kind of divine intervention. this isnt to say that long term monogomous relationships can work or that they shouldnt be aimed for but it isnt as easy as some would like to believe.


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## Canuck Singh (Sep 1, 2008)

Jaspreet08 said:


> I was kinda resistant to this statement when I first read, but my gut feeling is that you are right. Sex between a loving couple has to have a way different neuro-chemical response.
> 
> You mentioned the release of oxytocin during sex. Can you explain its role? I know it is used during pregnancy and for lactation.



I believe it would be necessary to requalify that statement as, "a relationship between a loving couple is okay, considering that it releases natural hormones etc." however excitement of any kind is incorrect, considering it would again lead to improper conditioning of the psyche and sympathetic and parasympathetic systems.

Oxytocin is important in child bearing as studies have shown that it increases the bond between mother and child. It is especially released during milking. Similar hormonal responses are seen during couples sharing natural intercourse. Increasing hormonal responses that influence compassion, bonding etc.

If it is not natural, research will soon show a connection with it and imbalances within the body. Scientific research actually has not caught up yet, because of the traditional method signed by descarted. "Splice everything until you get it down to a single unit". Traditional eastern medicine knows a little better in this sense, and now that research is increasing in both fields, a blend will show the negative interactions created by unnatural actions.


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## shernikaur (Sep 19, 2008)

LOL little boys!!

This is so common sense yet takes 7 pages of threads to explain.  Do what you need to do and grow up, dont be ashamed of who you are, there are so many other things you can focus on bettering yourself like being less angry, being better nicer person etc.

If you need to play with yourself to feel normal do it and stop whinning about it, we all know it is normal get over it now.  Women also have this same problem though few will admit to it because we stiil live in a society where women are not allowed to be sexual or at least openly admit it.  Dont worry  keep working on it and you will get through it.

Come on now !! (no pun intended heheehe)


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## Archived_Member4 (Sep 19, 2008)

shernikaur said:


> LOL little boys!!
> 
> This is so common sense yet takes 7 pages of threads to explain. Do what you need to do and grow up, dont be ashamed of who you are, there are so many other things you can focus on bettering yourself like being less angry, being better nicer person etc.
> 
> ...


 
SherniKaur ji 
Its about self control.  Falling into this trap of lust can really hurt a person physically and mentally.  Being a slave to lust is like being a drug addict; life just is not normal without the drug.


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## shernikaur (Sep 20, 2008)

Singh said:


> SherniKaur ji
> Its about self control. Falling into this trap of lust can really hurt a person physically and mentally. Being a slave to lust is like being a drug addict; life just is not normal without the drug.


 

Singh,

God created lust for a reason, it is no trap, Guru's had kids ot there own, they didnt just happen by themselves.  Simple thing is sex is a part of life, masterbation is also a part of life, a trap is if someone is sleeping around, discovering things that god intends you to discover is not a trap.


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## Archived_Member4 (Sep 20, 2008)

shernikaur said:


> Singh,
> 
> God created lust for a reason, it is no trap, Guru's had kids ot there own, they didnt just happen by themselves. Simple thing is sex is a part of life, masterbation is also a part of life, a trap is if someone is sleeping around, discovering things that god intends you to discover is not a trap.


 
God created lust, material attachment, anger, ego, and greed; these are the five theives that keep a person away from God. Just because he created it does not mean one should indulge in it. This point you are making about the Gurus having kids is talking about love not lust. Lust is a physical desire to have sex without love. Sleeping around falls into lust. Once again God made everyting in this world and discovering it is one thing. Indulging into it to the point it is constantly on the mind and one cannot do without it for a short peroid of time is another thing, which should be kept under control. Lust, one of the five theives is a trap that keeps a person away from God and lust becomes the God that one worships.


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## Jaspreet08 (Sep 20, 2008)

Agree w/ Singhji above. Very good response. 

This reminds of how when people say that your soul is eternal and pure. This does not imply you do whatever you want without any consquences. 

God's light shines in you, but your actions diminish it to the point where you don't see it.


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## shernikaur (Sep 21, 2008)

Singh/Jaspreet

It is all a point of view, sex is not wrong.  Do you not eat when you are hungry?  So whats the difference between masterbating and feeding yourself?  We try  to eat the most tasty thing to have a party in our mouth.  This is just a stigma we view sex as bad but it is not bad it is part of nature.  If self satisfaction can give yoru mind clarity then nothing wrong in it.  You guys talk lke its a big sin, when its not...thats just my point of view if you disagree thats fine but before you cast the first stone only someone who does not masterbate should reply otherwise practice what you preach before giving lectures and then going and masterbating yourself *UMPH*


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## Jaspreet08 (Sep 21, 2008)

Sherni Kaurji,

The focus of Singhji's and mine post is not that we are infallible or that someone who mastrabates is a sinner and is doomed; we are simply trying re-iterate what Guruji has said about lust. 

When I said, "This reminds of how when people say that your soul is eternal and pure..." - I was one of those people. Guruji's teachings are true, not my opinions.
-Jaspreet


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## Archived_Member4 (Sep 21, 2008)

shernikaur said:


> Singh/Jaspreet
> 
> It is all a point of view, sex is not wrong. Do you not eat when you are hungry? So whats the difference between masterbating and feeding yourself? We try to eat the most tasty thing to have a party in our mouth. This is just a stigma we view sex as bad but it is not bad it is part of nature. If self satisfaction can give yoru mind clarity then nothing wrong in it. You guys talk lke its a big sin, when its not...thats just my point of view if you disagree thats fine but before you cast the first stone only someone who does not masterbate should reply otherwise practice what you preach before giving lectures and then going and masterbating yourself *UMPH*


 
Sherni Kaur ji
I am not saying sex is wrong or that it is forbidden for a Sikh. This act is only to be shared with one’s spouse. Bhanji we eat to survive and if one is eating for lust then this is a selfish act. Self gratification is not needed to survive but one must eat to survive. When one indulges into this act there is an over whelmed amount of energy in the second chakra and this leads the person to have sex either with another person or with oneself and the energy can be wasted. There are more efficient ways of using this energy, by connecting this energy of the second chakra, to the fifth and sixth chakra a person can use it for simran and now the energy is higher up instead of just in the lower chakra. 

Bhanji I agree with you, practice what you preach. The knowledge that the person has should be applied to the person’s life and not wasted. Also others can use the same knowledge to better themselves. It comes down to how a person wants to use the energy he/she is given. Either for the second chakra, fulfilling fantasies or combine the three chakras together and use this heighten level of energy to achieve a higher consciousness.


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## Archived_Member_19 (Sep 23, 2008)

<<I am not saying sex is wrong or that it is forbidden for a Sikh. This act is only to be shared with one’s spouse. Bhanji we eat to survive and if one is eating for lust then this is a selfish act. Self gratification is not needed to survive but one must eat to survive. When one indulges into this act there is an over whelmed amount of energy in the second chakra and this leads the person to have sex either with another person or with oneself and the energy can be wasted.>>

same goes for speaking

why waste energy to speak?

why waste energy to play?

why waste energy to even live?



so by your logic, if i am not over simplifying, sex is meant only for pro creation.

So a couple of times should be enough.

wonder if this is true.


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## shernikaur (Sep 23, 2008)

Amar,

Thanks for making my point in less words.  Nobody wants to talk about sex honestly basic rehtoric is thrown out like water with little substance.

Everyone is doing it, does it and will do it, but nobody wants to openly admit anything.  It is true that the most religoius institutions have the most child molestation cases, the most homesexual behavior, and yet we try to preach the total opposite.  It is because of this formula that things dont make sense to the younger generation.

If you need to play with yourself to stop yourself from going out and engaging in risky behavior go for it, if you need to do so to have a clear frame of mind, be my guest.  Dont try to control something that with time will end up blowing up in your face with you doing something you didnt plan on just because you tried to CONTROL.

I rest my case.


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## Archived_Member4 (Sep 23, 2008)

amarsanghera said:


> <<I am not saying sex is wrong or that it is forbidden for a Sikh. This act is only to be shared with one’s spouse. Bhanji we eat to survive and if one is eating for lust then this is a selfish act. Self gratification is not needed to survive but one must eat to survive. When one indulges into this act there is an over whelmed amount of energy in the second chakra and this leads the person to have sex either with another person or with oneself and the energy can be wasted.>>
> 
> same goes for speaking
> 
> ...


 
Amar ji, before giving a reply to a post take the time to actually read it. In the first paragraph of the post in question I even said there are more efficient ways to use this energy. So now with this being repeated I’ll answer your questions. This could have been avoided if you had just gone on to read the other half of the paragraph.

why waste energy to speak?

Is speaking a efficient way of using energy. Well lets see, we speak to communicate with others which allows us to obtain knowledge and offer knowledge. 

why waste energy to play?

I really don’t know what you mean by play, but I am going to assume you mean play sports or a musical instrument. Both of these are more efficient ways of using energy; both develop the mind and both to there own limits keep a person in shape, so there is a less chance of getting diseases. 

why waste energy to even live?

Really interesting question, a Sikh knows the answer to this question. I am not going to answer this one; Amar ji, I’ll leave you with this one. Take your time no rush, I hope you find the answer to this question


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## Archived_Member4 (Sep 23, 2008)

shernikaur said:


> Amar,
> 
> Thanks for making my point in less words. Nobody wants to talk about sex honestly basic rehtoric is thrown out like water with little substance.
> 
> ...


 
Just because everyone in the planet is doing it, it does not make it okay. Younger kids use this line all the time mom dad I want this toy because everyone else has one. Thank God parents are smarter not to let this line go by them. A lot of things are going on in this world that are destroying peoples lives but that doesn’t mean we just follow through like the rest and let ourselves be a victim as well. These years are not just called the Dark Ages for no reason. 

How will it blow up in a person’s face, when the person takes the right steps to move away from it? Doing path three times a day or more helps a person regulate the energy in the body. Constantly repeat God’s name through out your day. It comes down to this people just want to give into self gratification because it’s an easy escape. Same reason why people drink, use drugs it’s an easy escape from stress, other life problems etc, etc.


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## Jaspreet08 (Sep 23, 2008)

shernikaur said:


> Amar,
> 
> It is true that the most religoius institutions have the most child molestation cases, the most homesexual behavior, and yet we try to preach the total opposite.


 
The child molestation cases we see in the news are Roman Catholic priests. They are not permitted to marry, but to remain celibate. Most religious traditions do not have this pratice.

I agree with you that sex is misunderstood by us. It is too powerful a emotion, and it can be easily misused. Using guilt to stop people from masterbating does not work either. I guess you do it until you don't want to do it anymore. 

The book "Conversations with God" says to the effect that an evolved soul does not condemn his sexual energy, as it one of the lower chakra, but involves into his/her being. If I remember correctly, God compared sex to a cake: you can have as much as you want. But there comes a time, when you simply have had enough and you want to try something else. You put it away not because it does not taste good or its bad for you, but you have had enough.


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## Archived_Member_19 (Sep 23, 2008)

<< If I remember correctly, God compared sex to a cake: you can have as much as you want. But there comes a time, when you simply have had enough and you want to try something else. You put it away not because it does not taste good or its bad for you, but you have had enough.>>

LOL

this is a funny piece but seems so true..  

<<Amar ji, before giving a reply to a post take the time to actually read it. In the first paragraph of the post in question I even said there are more efficient ways to use this energy. So now with this being repeated I’ll answer your questions. This could have been avoided if you had just gone on to read the other half of the paragraph.>>

i read your post sir..

but can you tell me how long can we conserve the so called "energy" ?


assuming that one day you cannot perform the "high" and "right" activities with your energy , then what happens to the "energy"?

what is its outlet?

as Sherni said, i too rest my case


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## Archived_Member4 (Sep 23, 2008)

amarsanghera said:


> << If I remember correctly, God compared sex to a cake: you can have as much as you want. But there comes a time, when you simply have had enough and you want to try something else. You put it away not because it does not taste good or its bad for you, but you have had enough.>>
> 
> LOL
> 
> ...


 
what case? Both of you don't have a case. Both of your responses go no where. Now you are asking me to assume something. The day there is no Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, on that day present this 'if' question to me.


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## BhagatSingh (Sep 24, 2008)

Singh said:


> Constantly repeat God’s name through out your day.


So this is supposed to regulate my energy? How?
If not what exactly does that accomplish?


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## shernikaur (Sep 25, 2008)

Singh said:


> what case? Both of you don't have a case. Both of your responses go no where. Now you are asking me to assume something. The day there is no Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, on that day present this 'if' question to me.


 
I dont even know what your talking about anymore what 'if' question and who said anything about no Sir Guru Granth SAhibji?


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## Archived_Member4 (Sep 25, 2008)

shernikaur said:


> I dont even know what your talking about anymore what 'if' question and who said anything about no Sir Guru Granth SAhibji?


 
Read amar ji's last post on here. The post of mine that you don't understand is a reply to amar ji's post. Read that post and it'll come clear what is meant by my post.


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## shearwater (Sep 29, 2008)

I am a Christian and admire the high moral standards of the Sikh religion.  There is a saying in computer programming, *Garbage in Garbage Out.* People who obsess about their sexuality have an addiction that pains them.  If you focus your mind on sexually prurient material, your mentakl thoughts will be captive to this.  In the Christian Bible  in Romans 12, it says - 1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual[a] act of worship. 2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

I am aware of one man who had an embarrassing problem with lust, a Christian.  He knew he had to overcome his addiction and determined to fill his mind with God's word.  That is probably what may also help you.  This man used fasting, prayer and God's word to overcome his dirty habits.


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## spnadmin (Sep 29, 2008)

shearwater ji

Very interesting comments! In Sikhism, fasting is not approved -- with the view from Gurbani that it is a form of renunciation that is not effective in achieving enlightenment -- the divine light. The jyoti or divine light is essential if we want to overcome the sense of psychological separation that brings on anxiety and suffering (often at the root of sexual addictions). Where there is agreement is in the line where you quote Paul:

_Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will._

In Gurbani

ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥ 
maajh mehalaa 4 ||
Maajh, Fourth Mehl:
  
 ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਪੜੀਐ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗੁਣੀਐ ॥ 
har gun parreeai har gun guneeai ||
Read of the Lord's Glories and reflect upon the Lord's Glories.

  
 ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਕਥਾ ਨਿਤ ਸੁਣੀਐ ॥ 
har har naam kathhaa nith suneeai ||
Listen continually to the Sermon of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, Har, Har.

  
 ਮਿਲਿ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਏ ਜਗੁ ਭਉਜਲੁ ਦੁਤਰੁ ਤਰੀਐ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥ 
mil sathasangath har gun gaaeae jag bhoujal dhuthar thareeai jeeo ||1||
Joining the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, and singing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, you shall cross over the treacherous and terrifying world-ocean. ||1||

  
 ਆਉ ਸਖੀ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਲੁ ਕਰੇਹਾ ॥ 
aao sakhee har mael karaehaa ||
Come, friends, let us meet our Lord.

 ਮੇਰੇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਕਾ ਮੈ ਦੇਇ ਸਨੇਹਾ ॥ 
maerae preetham kaa mai dhaee sanaehaa ||
Bring me a message from my Beloved.

  
ਮੇਰਾ ਮਿਤ੍ਰੁ ਸਖਾ ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮੁ ਭਾਈ ਮੈ ਦਸੇ ਹਰਿ ਨਰਹਰੀਐ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥ 
maeraa mithra sakhaa so preetham bhaaee mai dhasae har narehareeai jeeo ||2||
He alone is a friend, companion, beloved and brother of mine, who shows me the way to the Lord, the Lord of all. ||2||

 ਮੇਰੀ ਬੇਦਨ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਜਾਣੈ ॥ 
maeree baedhan har gur pooraa jaanai ||
My illness is known only to the Lord and the Perfect Guru.

  
ਹਉ ਰਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਾ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਮ ਵਖਾਣੇ ॥ 
ho rehi n sakaa bin naam vakhaanae ||
I cannot continue living without chanting the Naam.

 ਮੈ ਅਉਖਧੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਦੀਜੈ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਉਧਰੀਐ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥ 
mai aoukhadhh manthra dheejai gur poorae mai har har naam oudhhareeai jeeo ||3||
So give me the medicine, the Mantra of the Perfect Guru. Through the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, I am saved. ||3||

  
 ਹਮ ਚਾਤ੍ਰਿਕ ਦੀਨ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਰਣਾਈ ॥ 
ham chaathrik dheen sathigur saranaaee ||
I am just a poor song-bird, in the Sanctuary of the True Guru,

  
 ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਬੂੰਦ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਈ ॥ 
har har naam boondh mukh paaee ||
who has placed the Drop of Water, the Lord's Name, Har, Har, in my mouth.

  
ਹਰਿ ਜਲਨਿਧਿ ਹਮ ਜਲ ਕੇ ਮੀਨੇ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਲ ਬਿਨੁ ਮਰੀਐ ਜੀਉ ॥੪॥੩॥ 
har jalanidhh ham jal kae meenae jan naanak jal bin mareeai jeeo ||4||3||
The Lord is the Treasure of Water; I am just a fish in that water. Without this Water, servant Nanak would die. ||4||3||

This shabad is by the 4th Guru, Guru Ram Das Dev ji, and it can be found on Page 95 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj.

Thank you for a good post.


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## singhisking101 (Feb 27, 2009)

A good idea is to get some filtering software and to set it to block those sites. That way ull think twice before going. :happy:


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## shearwater (Feb 27, 2009)

As a Christian I believe that God gives the Holy Spirit (the Paraclete) to guide my conscience and provide checks which preclude looking at things that are prurient in nature (those things which entice sexual appetites and lust).  Even though I am not perfect, I confess no interest in dwelling on those things.  And as example, I read in the Book of Job from the Old Testament that Job argued his integrity before God by saying that he did not look on a virgin, which I take to mean that he was not lustful toward women other than his wife. So one aspect of integrity taken from that is that virtuous men do not look lustfully at women as sexual objects.  Jesus also taught that whoever looks on a woman to lust after her commits adultery in his heart.  Adultery is a capital crime enshrined in the Ten Commandments.

You are right because one time a pop up come on my computer with a nude woman in a sensuous pose.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 28, 2009)

quote:
You are right because one time a pop up come on my computer with a nude woman in a sensuous pose.....

Its just a picture.....shearwater Ji....
Just like I wont shy away in terror from a picture of a Lion roaring or a wild buffalo charging at me...i wouldnt be tunred on by a mere picture.....some of my younger students used to ogle at the naked mannequins in stores when i took them for "economic study tours"....whats that..whats that.. "naked woman ..lah the wiser ones woudl whsiper while looking out for me slyly....NOW they just ignore them..knowing its just a piece of plastic...the One on your computer screen is a number of PIXELS only....

no offense jio:welcome:


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## Randip Singh (Feb 28, 2009)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> quote:
> You are right because one time a pop up come on my computer with a nude woman in a sensuous pose.....
> 
> Its just a picture.....shearwater Ji....
> ...



Some nice points.

I remember a Sikh website where I posted pictures of body builders and some extreme people found them rude and offensive. They said that a naked human body was obscene.....how is God's creation obscene?

I think we can take this business to the nth degree. Kaam or the obsession with sex in the real enemy. I have one friend who finds holding a tomato in his had rousing and sensual....the point is the problem is within.

Is maturbation wrong? No
Is looking at pornography wrong....no but what it can do is give the wrong impression of men and women and one can see them as objects of gratification.

Obsession with sex, food, money etc etc is all a problem of equal weight. A bit of discipline may help in such instances.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 28, 2009)

YES Randip Ji.  Hit the nail On the head.
The problem is inside the head..not outside.


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## yobhuller (Mar 3, 2009)

My brother I've gone thorough that,  no body help me but my self and Vaheguru b'cause I was to shy to talked about.  my suggestion to you is that, when the urge started inside you, when you fill that you're falling the path again the blood inside you pumping and your brain telling you to indulge into it,  put your shoes on go to Gurdwara, do some sewa  and you must recite simran while doing sewa. I was crying once infront of Sri Guru Granth Shahib because i can't help my self and Baba ji always listen to those that come to him, he showed the way to fight this. Practise simran is very helpfull my brother. I know how you fell inside  jeparis2@hotmail.com


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## prabhsmart (Mar 12, 2009)

I was myself slave of such things. things started when I was at sewa for a whole night at a Akhan path, jsut two nights of listening Akhan path changed me. i started controlling myself. then couple of months later another sewa at akhan path, i came back home and deleted all the matter and destroyed my Dvd back up also. 
Things improved to such an extend that i could remove my internet service as it was only require for porn download only.
I do see porn some times, but that once a month for a limited time.

Perform an ardas and request Guruji to help u, he will guide u and become a part of sewa in ur Gurudware. 
It will take time, but nothing is impossible for ur Guruji.

Best of Luck.

Guru Rakha.


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## shearwater (Mar 12, 2009)

There is a passage in James 1 that indicates that sin comes first through the mind by enticing our curiosity, perhaps like the fabled snake in the Garden of Eden who asked Eve whether God really said the fruit was not "good" to eat.  By lingering on that thought, Eve succumbed and sin first entered the world.

*13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.*

The Christian's response to evil and lust should be as a dead man.  *He reckons his life to be dead (unresponsive)* to sin but fully alive to God.  Dead men cannot be enticed by evil desire. The Apostle Paul, aware of the possibility of sinning and his own weakness without God's help said, *"I die daily."* 

Interesting dialogue.  God bless you, friend!


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## Randip Singh (Mar 12, 2009)

prabhsmart said:


> I was myself slave of such things. things started when I was at sewa for a whole night at a Akhan path, jsut two nights of listening Akhan path changed me. i started controlling myself. then couple of months later another sewa at akhan path, i came back home and deleted all the matter and destroyed my Dvd back up also.
> Things improved to such an extend that i could remove my internet service as it was only require for porn download only.
> I do see porn some times, but that once a month for a limited time.
> 
> ...



"I controlled myself"

Give yourself to Waheguru and accept his/her will, then you won't have to worry about controlling this yourself. The "I" equates to self which is in turn self will. We are trying to be Gurmukh i.e. that which is under the sway of Gods will.


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## Randip Singh (Mar 12, 2009)

shearwater said:


> There is a passage in James 1 that indicates that sin comes first through the mind by enticing our curiosity, perhaps like the fabled snake in the Garden of Eden who asked Eve whether God really said the fruit was not "good" to eat.  By lingering on that thought, Eve succumbed and sin first entered the world.
> 
> *13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.*
> 
> ...



Hi Shearwater ji,

If you notice within Sikhi we do not actually have a concept of sin. only that of self will and God's will.


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## shearwater (Mar 12, 2009)

Regarding fasting . . . Jesus is our example and he commanded, "fast and pray that you enter not into temptation."

I am told by those who have fasted that fasting sharpens the mind when difficult and painful decisions must be made.  It also confirms what Jesus said of himself, "I have meat to eat that you know not of.", that our bodily life is totally dependent upon God and that we can get along without food even and feel God's overwhelming power in sustaining us through fasting.

Once when I lost a girl friend, I fasted (did not take solid nourishment, i.e. food) for one week. . . out of sorrow.  When the fast was done my mourning was also done.

In another case, a prominent Christian leader found himself in sin known only to him and determined to overcome it.  With nine months of intense prayer, Bible reading and fasting periodically he gained his self respect and got victory in his soul over his sin! 

I suppose in the Sikh paradigm this would be something like meditating on Naam.


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## spnadmin (Mar 12, 2009)

shearwater ji

If I were to fast I would fall prey to a low blood sugar headache -- and would not be able to think clearly. So in times of stress and decision-making I try not to fast and put things in the hands of God as much as possible. :idea:


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## shearwater (Mar 12, 2009)

Fasting is only for those who can do so and under the advice of a medical doctor.  People with diabetes should not fast food.  There are other ways to fast such as deny yourself  creature comforts such as television or entertainment.


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## shearwater (Mar 12, 2009)

Randip Singh:

In the Christian paradigm, sin is the transgression of the law, i.e. the Ten Commandments . . . or God's revelation of his will. 

Shearwater


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