# Earrings Allowed?



## Kamala

Okay so the other forum never explained anything clearly to me. I was wondering if a female Sikh woman who has taken Amrit be allowed to get her ear's priced? Vaccines are allowed that make a hole inside one's body but why not earrings? If it's about you cannot wear jewelry I always see Sikh women wearing like rings and such but why not earrings? On one's own will is it okay? On a question I see here "http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110412003414AA1SWSe" people say it's okay but I want to know what you guys feel about this. Many Hindu Devi's take Amrit and they still wear earrings. I also heard a quote "If Hinduism is a Tree, Sikhism is a fruit on the tree" is that quote true? Thank you! I look forward to you're views.


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## Ambarsaria

Welcome and thanks for the first post.

I believe the question of body ornaments have been covered in other threads but I don't have a quick reference.  If I find one I will edit my post if it helps.

As far as the following excerpted in your post,



> I also heard a quote "If Hinduism is a Tree, Sikhism is a fruit on the tree" is that quote true?
> 
> _This quote goes in the general line of making Sikhism appear like part of Hinduism. It is belittling and a way to create falsehoods.
> 
> You may wish to review the following thread too among others,
> 
> __http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/interfaith-dialogues/35502-are-the-sikhs-hindus-2.html#post146841_​_
> Sikhism does not need a Hindu tree in the sense of a fruit needing a tree or a bush.__
> 
> Sikhism stood up and developed to correct the mis-leading and controlling mechanisms of Brahmins through their propagation of rites, rituals and beliefs and control manipulation of the masses.__
> 
> In a more martial sense Sikhism stood up against Islam and its ways of conversion of infidels (anyone non Muslim) and belief on paths to Hell and Heaven through intermediaries._
> _
> Just a quick summary if it helps to clarify._



Sat Sri Akal.


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## Archived_Member16

For your information:

*Sikh Rehit Maryada  ( THE CODE OF SIKH CONDUCT AND CONVENTIONS )*

Section Four, Chapter X 
Living in Consonance with Guru's Tenets (Gurmat Rehni)

Article XVI :

*( k )  Piercing of nose or ears for wearing ornaments is forbidden for Sikh men and women. *

*source*: http://www.sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_four.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Can Sikh ladies wear earrings, makeup, and other jewellery?*

According to the Panthic Sikh Rehat Maryada, there is no objection to wearing any kind of jewellery by an Amritdhari person provided one does not have to pierce his/her ear, nose or any part of the body to wear it. 

ਚ) ਸਿੱਖ ਮਰਦ ਅਥਵਾ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਨੂੰ ਨੱਕ, ਕੰਨ, ਛੇਦਨਾ ਮਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਹੈ ।
 "k. Piercing of nose or ears for wearing ornaments is forbidden for Sikh men and women."
 (SRM: Ch. 10, Article 16)

Gurbani says:

ਜੈਸੇ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਕਰੈ ਦੇਹ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਕਟੇ ਨਕ ਕੀਕ ॥੩॥
 "They may adorn and decorate their bodies, but without the Naam, they look like their noses have been cut off. ||3||"
 (Ang 1336)

ਮਾਨੁਖੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਬੂਝੇ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਆਇਆ ॥
 ਅਨਿਕ ਸਾਜ ਸੀਗਾਰ ਬਹੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਜਿਉ ਮਿਰਤਕੁ ਓਢਾਇਆ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
 "Without understanding (the value of human life), his coming into the world is useless.
 He puts on various ornaments and many decorations, but it is like dressing a corpse. ||Pause||"
 (Ang 712)

During the olden days, the wearing of earrings and nose rings indicated slavery. The owners used them to identify their slaves. This does not fit in the Khalsa culture. We, the Khalsa, enjoy full freedom and are not slaves of any person or even of any god; hence we feel it degrading to wear earrings.

The reader may be surprised to know that wearing earrings is a recent fad. In early 1960s, when Dr. Gurbakhsh Singh visited the USA for higher studies, he did not see any woman or a girl with earrings. Rather he found, coeds chuckling at the ‘silly’ act on Indian women students piercing their ears and putting rings in them. They believed that it was practice of backward and uncultured people. (In 1961 two American friends of the Dr. Gurbakhsh Singh showed their concern about this hurtful and meaningless Indian custom). 

What a U-turn fashion has taken now! All females young or old, almost without exception, are now seen wearing earrings. The size and design of the rings have no limits. The earrings have grown long enough to touch the shoulders and they swing around when the head is suddenly moved to left or right. Such fads come and go to be replaced by new ones. Wearing lipstick, earrings, skirts, and keeping long hair by boys is another example. However it is healthier for the mind and convenient for the body to live and dress simply and gracefully. 

Those who avoid such fads enjoy greater and everlasting peace of mind and keep themselves free from self-inflicted punishment. It also strengthens their mind to think independently and live as leaders among their peers.

*source: *http://www.sikhism101.com/node/189


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## Kamala

If earrings show slavery then why did the Hindu Devi's/ Dev's wear earrings?  Like even before the 1900 I can guarantee in Rajasthan almost every man had earrings. Is it still bad if you wear earrings *and *pray so much in the day like how it is told to do prayers?


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## spnadmin

I think that there is one sentence that will cause considerable confusion in this conversation. 



> "If Hinduism is a Tree, Sikhism is a fruit on the tree"



As forum member Ambarsaria ji has stated: Sikhism is not the fruit of Hinduism. It is not a form of Hinduism, nor is it an offshoot of Hinduism. In fact, "Hinduism" did not exist as a religion until the time of the British raj. Before that "Hindu" was the Mughal/Muslim term for Brahmins. The British also followed along for more than a century, until the 19th Century when they began to group members of all dharmic religions as Hindus. 

Therefore, Guru Nanak would not and could not begin a radical religious and ethical movement based on a "Hindu" religion ...because Hinduism did not exist.

Some "Hindu" swamis and academics even today say that the term "Hindu" is a misleading label for a very diverse group of religions that draw guidance from the ancient vedas.

Now, when we accept that Sikhism is not the fruit of Hinduism, then it does not matter what Hindu Devi's did before, during, or after taking "amrit." It is irrelevant whether they pierced their ears or wore earings. It takes us off track. It is irrelevant to Sikhs.

Next, it is a fact that body piercing is forbidden to Sikhs who have taken amrit sanchar/khande da pahul. That is clearly given in the Sikh Rehat Maryada. There is no use arguing about it, because here again the actions of Hindu Devi's is unrelated/irrelevant.

Yes, Punjabi Sikh women wear jewelry. Jewelry is also a very common way to gift a new bride. The jewelry includes rings, neck chains, wrist and ankle bracelets. Wearing jewelry is permitted. Clip-on earrings and earrings with little screws in the back are permitted. Pierced earrings ....not permitted to amritdhari Sikhs.

Earrings and nose-rings did not only identity slaves. Earrings and other forms of piercings identified membership in yogic cults, such as the followers of Gorakh, who in the times of the Gurusahiban wore huge earrings. To clearly mark the difference between Sikhi and forms of Hindu belief, the Sikh Rehat Maryada forbade piercings.


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## spnadmin

This was Guru Nanak's point!

Ang 6, Pauree 28

ਮੁੰਦਾ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਸਰਮੁ ਪਤੁ ਝੋਲੀ ਧਿਆਨ ਕੀ ਕਰਹਿ ਬਿਭੂਤਿ ॥
Mundhaa Santhokh Saram Path Jholee Dhhiaan Kee Karehi Bibhooth ||
Make contentment your ear-rings, humility your begging bowl, and meditation the ashes you apply to your body.

ਖਿੰਥਾ ਕਾਲੁ ਕੁਆਰੀ ਕਾਇਆ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਡੰਡਾ ਪਰਤੀਤਿ ॥
Khinthhaa Kaal Kuaaree Kaaeiaa Jugath Ddanddaa Paratheeth ||
Let the remembrance of death be the patched coat you wear, let the purity of virginity be your way in the world, and let faith in the Lord be your walking stick.

ਆਈ ਪੰਥੀ ਸਗਲ ਜਮਾਤੀ ਮਨਿ ਜੀਤੈ ਜਗੁ ਜੀਤੁ ॥
Aaee Panthhee Sagal Jamaathee Man Jeethai Jag Jeeth ||
See the brotherhood of all mankind as the highest order of Yogis; conquer your own mind, and conquer the world.

The pauree is talking about the yogis who made a public show of begging. And, as followers of Gorakh, they were recognized by their earrings. Guru Nanak is saying that symbols of your piety, like earrings, are meaningless, making a show of your poverty by begging is meaningless, wearing ashes, wearing a patched coat, and all of your abstinence from sex, all is meaningless, if you do not see all of mankind as one. The tuk, Aaee Panthhee Sagal Jamaathee Man Jeethai Jag Jeeth ||, is an outright rejection of the caste system, and all that Brahmins stood for (to include Hindu Devis and the yogis as well).

Therefore, what is or was part of the Brahmin tradition has nothing to do with Sikhi. You cannot use it as back up for the earring question.


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## Kamala

How much of a sin is wearing earrings? 1-10 (10=worst)


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## spnadmin

*good question imho. *


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## Harry Haller

Im no expert, but from what I understand, to do anything forbidden takes you further away from the light, and to heed the guru's advice brings you closer. 

I would imagine being pierced and wearing rings is an encouragement for at least 3 of the five thieves. I don't believe there are scales to label things, other than how far away or how close you feel to gurmukh. 

It clearly all depends on what sort of relationship you desire with the creator, for those who would put it above everything else, there are no grey areas, but the majority of people, including myself, make an effort to follow the way, but as long as it causes as little discomfort to my 'life' as possible. Of course my 'life' is nothing, and ignoring the love I feel, largely pointless without the hunt for way. 

So I suppose in some respects its a 1, in some its a 10, depending on why you are doing it, where you are in the process of the hunt and where it leads to.

I do not speak with any authority of sikhi, just my own interpretation, I am sure someone more wiser than myself will also comment on this


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## spnadmin

harry ji, I think I disagree somewhat



> I would imagine being pierced and wearing rings is an encouragement for at least 3 of the five thieves




She does not wear earrings ji! But the wife of granthi ji at my gurdwara wears a large gold ring on every finger. And she is one great model of Gurmat learning and self-composure.

Toe rings are common in sangat, and bracelets. All of these can magnetize 3 of those 5 thieves. But I think only if a person is pre-disposed to be seduced by them. That is when self regulation kicks in and we show we have the backbone to set limits for ourselves. To me it is just like being able to take a Percoset for post-surgical pain according the doctor's orders, without being afraid that I will lose control and become addicted to pain medication.

In my own small world I do not want to be an extremist who says NO  and blindly follows "the rules" which may have nothing to do with true morality.  Not like a fanatic who would use Gurbani to ban jewelry because the shabads in question are poorly understood.

Guru Nanak is not saying No to earrings. He is saying No to pierced earrings and anything else that harken back to a Brahmin identity that was mired in castism, ritual, ritual purification, animal sacrifice, false humility, while having no real grip on the suffering it caused for centuries to all women and anyone who was not a Brahmin.


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## Harry Haller

Spnadminji, 



If it is the piercing and the piercing alone then that is the issue. However surely people get a piercing to insert earings in them. It reminds me of a story of a sikh back in Punjab who burnt his beard off, as that would not constitute cut Kesh. I think the issue is what exactly is the sin, earings or piercings.Or indeed is it pierced earings, but not clip ons! 


Gurbani does say a lot of things, and I am certainly no extremist, however if we were to uphold the laws of sikhi to the letter, including mental conduct, the gurdwaras would be empty, it is not the principal of upholding rather than knowing what exactly is the sin in the first place, surely gurdwara are places of learning, not a meeting place for the elite


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## Ambarsaria

Dear 13800038 ji some comments,



13800038 said:


> How much of a sin is wearing earrings? 1-10 (10=worst)
> 
> _You got to recognize that Sikh Rehat Maryada (a Guide to living the Sikhi way) does not talk about identified behaviors as evil or Sins but as indiscretions with intent or without intent (i.e. innocent mistakes).  With that clarification I note the following,
> 
> _
> 
> Rating
> Adult doing the indiscretion with knowledge
> *Less than "1"* as it is not a Kurehat or discretion requiring re-baptization
> This is classified as Tankahayieh (subject to penalty like do Langar or other sewa with focus more on labor like effort) if the person doing the indiscretion seeks forgiveness from a Sikh congregation
> It is also worth noting that Sikh Rehat Maryada has no place for vigilantism either.  In such cases the transgressor is in-charge of seeking remedy and not anyone else can force or chastise them into doing so.  Again the emphasis is internal recognition by the person themselves for any corrections rather than external force.
> 
> 
> Anyone including children doing so without knowledge
> *"0"*


Another related point to note perhaps is that Sikhi starts from inside out.  So developing understanding, working with the understanding, living with the understanding is as if more important of a pre-requisite to being a good Sikh.  In other words cleanliness inside is far too important versus external persona or compliance.  External should naturally follow internal.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Kanwaljit.Singh

> How much of a sin is wearing earrings?



This is something I was thinking of other day. I think there is no Sin. No Sin is bad and no good deed is pious. God doesn't see it that way. The Sin and Good concept is for you to measure. Where are you going? If you are going from Human Life (H) to God Union (G), then maybe you go 3 steps towards G. At times you might go one step away from G towards H. For God it is just a step. Step means a passage of time. Your time going away in thinking if you should wear earrings or not. Have this jewelery or that. Eating meat or not. What time to do Paath. All that thinking is either taking you away from God or making you stand still, and time gets wasted. Think of the clock, it goes tick-tock, tick-tock and you know it works fine. As long as you go Wahe-Guru, Wahe-Guru, you should be fine. very fine.

But since you are playing with doubts, I will add to it. Guru Gobind Singh threw away His gold bangles into river at Patna Sahib, for He felt them to be bounding in some way. Rest is your wish.

I think the problem is that now as a Sikh, we get ready and all groomed up (like we do to go before party) and before it is long, we have run out of time for Naam Simran. I think the best way is to do Kathin Naam Simran and realize what things you need and you don't in life. Or first Give up everything, do Naam Simran and add things to your life which you need. But basically stick to Naam Simran and Gurbani.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh


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## spnadmin

I do not think there is a "sin" in the piercing or in the earrings. "Sin" is not a concept in Sikhi; it is consistent with Abrahamic religions. But if there were a "sin" it would be in the haumei that comes with taking pride in one's false identity, and sporting earrings, piercings, patched coats, begging bowls to prove your pride is justified. In other words, thinking you are some kind of Brahmin, different from others, severed from your deepest connection to the divine and to everyone else.


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## Harry Haller

As a seeker of the ultimate truth, you get quite used to little droplets of knowledge in the most unusual places, and from the most abstract of statements. I have to confess to be being surprised at SPNadminji's story about his Granthiji's wife. 

It was still on my mind as I walked the dogs that evening, surely, if you were in the light, or at least on the right path, both of which statements apply to Granthiji's wife, why would you want to have a large gold ring on each finger. I have never understood the attraction of jewelry myself, I wear none, and my wife wears very little, however that is our choice, jewelry has always been, for me, a rather pointless pursuit. However we are all different, and by the time I had got home, I still could not figure out to what end anyone would go as far as 10 large gold rings. I mentioned it to my wife over dinner, 'why do you think a gursikh lady should not wear gold rings, as many as she wants', she asked.I replied 'why would she want to, surely she has found the creator, what benefit could it have', my dear wife then said 'maybe she likes rings.., being a gursikh surely doesn't mean you have to walk around in rags to show everyone how holy you are, maybe she likes rings, and those ten large rings on her hands are there to show everyone that gursikhs should still live and enjoy life but under the laws of sikhi, as we are all individuals'

The Granthiji's wife, I then thought must be highly intelligent to draw attention to a facet of sikhism that is extremely valid. We are not meant to be ascetics , we are meant to enjoy family life, and pretty things, and find our happiness not only within the creator, but our own individual foibles, as long as they do not undermine the teachings of sikhi. 

I have a passion for Range Rovers, upto 1994, the shape, bearing, and noise of a 4.2 V8 is beautiful, I have no wish to see myself as better than the next man, and although I have sold my LSE, and drive my fathers old mondeo, it always worried me a bit that I was being showy, (although as an old auntie pointed out once, well its hardly new is it), but the point is I suppose, if your heart is pure, and your intentions are pure, then I suppose this lady stands like a beacon to other people, eat well but modestly, dress nicely, enjoy yourselves and gods creation, live within the boundries of sikhi and you can still be yourselves, individuals, 

of course i could have got all this wrong, in which case I am not discussing these things with my wife anymore


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## findingmyway

These things should come from the inside. As I grew closer to Waheguru and the Sikh way of life I had no desire to wear earrings or other adornments anymore and now rarely wear any jewellery or make up. There is no sin in Sikhi, just the difference in whether you are walking the path to being a manmukh or a gurmukh. Enforcing these rules can also be counterproductive. Making people aware of _why_ they are so attached to their jewels is a constructive way I think.


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## Ambarsaria

Harry Haller ji some comments on your post,



harry haller said:


> As a seeker of the ultimate truth, you get quite used to little droplets of knowledge in the most unusual places, and from the most abstract of statements. I have to confess to be being surprised at SPNadminji's story about his Granthiji's wife.
> 
> *..... Harry:*  I mentioned it to my wife over dinner,
> 
> 
> _Please keep mentioning things to your wife and share her wisdom here.  She is a brilliantly perceptive and gifted lady._
> 
> *..... wife:*  'why do you think a gursikh lady should not wear gold rings, as many as she wants', she asked.
> 
> 
> _Harry Haller ji scratches his head  lol_
> *.....  Harry:*  I replied 'why would she want to, surely she has found the creator, what benefit could it have',
> 
> 
> _Reasonable response_
> *.....  my dear wife then said:* 'maybe she likes rings.., being a gursikh surely doesn't mean you have to walk around in rags to show everyone how holy you are, maybe she likes rings, and those ten large rings on her hands are there to show everyone that gursikhs should still live and enjoy life but under the laws of sikhi, as we are all individuals'
> 
> 
> _*Now that is wisdom to behold* mundahug for all who are caught up in little things like_,
> _Ladies asked to wear turban not that they like it_
> _Ladies asked not to wear makeup not that they don't want to_
> _Downplaying the concept of beauty or looking beautiful for females and looking handsome for males as though it is evil_
> _So on ....
> _
> 
> 
> *......  Harry:*  if your heart is pure, and your intentions are pure, then I suppose this lady stands like a beacon to other people, eat well but modestly, dress nicely, enjoy yourselves and gods creation, live within the boundries of sikhi and you can still be yourselves, individuals,
> 
> 
> _Thank you well said_
> 
> .....  Harry:  of course i could have got all this wrong, in which case I am not discussing these things with my wife anymore
> 
> 
> _Harry Haller ji and your wife ji don't got it wrong but got it very right, thank you in describing it so well_



Thanks again for the great post.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## spnadmin

Now that I have said all I want to say about ShabadGuru on the topic, it is time for me to get down to earth and practical.

Why does it take you farther away from Waheguru if you wear jewelry? Why does it make you less of a gursikh if you wear jewelry? I have never figured that out. How does wearing jewelry, make-up or an richly embroidered silk kameez get in the way of the distance and direction travelled by your brain? This has to be a very individual thing...if you cannot focus on ShabadGuru whilst wearing a ring or two, take them off! I am bewildered whenever and wherever these stark choices are put before us. 

Yesterday when I was thinking about pierced earrings and the Gorakh cult and doing my best to interpret the shabad, I was wearing two rings. Who knows if I will remember to wear them tomorrow? If I have a spiritual life, these matters should not affect my spiritual or mental state either way. Please someone explain how I am mistaken?


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## findingmyway

Spnadmin ji,
I think these things are personal for everyone. For most the reasoning for wearing jewellery etc is a show of wealth or vanity and to attract others (esp the opposite sex like a pea{censored} does). That is why I mention it is important for each to examine their own reasons for why they do these things. There are many reasons for wearing jewellery that may not be contradictory to gurmat values but vanity is not a good reason imho! However, I am not judging, just encouraging introspection. With piercings, I agree its wrong for the historical reasons you mentioned but also it is a permanent change to your body and serves no purpose. Yet culturally Panjabi's tend to wear gold earrings all the time and the flashier the better! In Panjabi wedddings the jewellery for the bride can bankrupt the family quite easily!

The other thing I would like to add for this issue and most others is that saying its wrong and knowing its against SRM is one thing, but until someone believes from inside that they don't want to wear earrings or do any of the other things in SRM from the inside there will always be a longing for those things there.

I hope this all makes sense!


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## spnadmin

findingmyway ji 

You make sense completely. 

But here is the core of perplexity for me. Nowhere in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the wearing of jewelry prohibited. Those who read a shabad that way have misinterpreted it. The rehat prohibits piercings...for reasons already covered. Hence the prohibition against jewelry comes only from human reasoning. The wearing of jewelry *might be* coming from a negative place. And that might be very true. The questions persists: Why is there a ban on jewelry and a lot of other things too, when there is no ban to speak of? Sometimes, conscience is working overtime and creating doubts where it may be counterproductive. That is my concern.

There are many points of entry for getting closer to Waheguru. This is only one of them. 
ਆਈ ਪੰਥੀ ਸਗਲ ਜਮਾਤੀ ਮਨਿ ਜੀਤੈ ਜਗੁ ਜੀਤੁ ॥
Aaee Panthhee Sagal Jamaathee Man Jeethai Jag Jeeth ||
See the brotherhood of all mankind as the highest order of Yogis; conquer your own mind, and conquer the world.


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## Ishna

I have three piercings in my ears.  Sometimes I feel guilty for having them because a Sikh "is not supposed" to have pierced ears.  I was vaguely aware of the slavery connection, but it's not part of my cultural history as a Westerner so, being aware that Gurbani doesn't expressedly forbid pierced ears, I've left them in.  I look around my sangat and I don't see a woman without pierced ears, so then I wonder why I worry at all.

Examining my motivation for getting them in the first place:  the two in my lobes I got before I became as serious about Sikhi as I am now.  I got them to look prettier, I was in-between relationships and without self confidence.  Not a positive mental place to be getting piercings.

I got my cartilage piercing when I rebelled against religion in the middle of last year.  It was for me an act of defiance.  I have always liked the "tough" look of the cartilage piercing, and wanted to stand as a strong woman who wouldn't be controlled (ironic when you think of the slave history!).

Today, the earrings are just there.  Whether they are pierced or clip-on earrings, I think my own mind-set about them would be exactly the same.  I still fail to understand why on one hand piercing ears is not allowed but wearing clip-ons is, when the mentality is the same, in this day-and-age.

I often think about removing my piercings, but they've taken so long to heal - much longer than usual.  I'll have to remove them if I decide to wear dastaar but I think I'm quite a ways from that yet.  The earrings are a source of self-confidence for me now, I don't think I look right without them.

Ironically, when I was a Pagan teenager, I was following physical Sikhi much closer than I am now.  I never cut any of my hairs, never pierced my ears or anything because I didn't want to mess with the way my Goddess had made me.  I lost that resolve in the spiritual gap as I was seeking between Paganism and Sikhi.  

The moral of this story:  don't get any piercings, because like alcohol, once you have them you won't want to give them up.


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## jasbirkaleka

animatedkhanda1Pls. can some-one quote a Shabad from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that, in no uncertain terms,specifically forbids the wearing ear-rings by women.
Women in every continebt of the world have been wearing ear-rings for thousands of years.This is really news to me that they wore it as a symbol of slavery.
What is wrong in looking more atractive? Is it not one of the reasons that we all, includings the Sikhs, wear clothes?
Why is it that Panthic Sikh Rehat Maryada,a recently drafted, man-made document, is considered so sacrosant that no changes can be made in it.
Lasly what do we do with 99.9 Sikh women who wear ear-rings/yellingsardarni


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## pamma

Wearing earings or any jewellery is a very personal issue, why mingle it with religion? What is religion? Is it the goal or a means to a goal? I'll request my friends at SPN to lay stress on naam , once you start enjoying naam all these issues seem trivial.Rise up friends and let religion lead us to spirituality.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Ear piercing was a Religious requirement for Yogis...just as Circumcision is for Muslims. No circumciison..no muslim..no ear rings..no Yogi. Gurmatt doesnt agree with BOTH.
Some sadhu orders had to have Matted hair..plastering with sap of the peepal tree to have luxuriant growth ( an idea for those who have sp{censored} hair ha ha)....others had to PULL out each hair by the root...this is also not as per Gurmatt..a Sikh cannot have matted hair..the Kangha comb ensures this. A few more rather disgusting religious requirements are mentioend by Guru nanak ji sahib...all not as per gurmatt...brahamchareeism..celibacy..running away to forests caves etc for simran..etc etc.

Jewellery per se is NOT Banned..our Sikh GURUS wore the ebst clothes, rode the ebst horses, had golden plumes on dastaar like Royalty, had necklaces and all that...the issue is PIERCING AS A RELIGIOUS REQUIREMENT....if you cna over-ride that by saying..i am NOT doing it for religious reasons..then soemone else cna say i am getting circumcised for helath reasons...BUT the fact is one cannot become a Yogi without piercing/ or  amuslim without circum !!..and BOTH piercing/circum are NOT REVERSIBLE. once done..permanent.


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## pamma

But definitely women were not yogis, what about them? In today's scenario we don't identify a Hindu by seeing the pierced ears. People all over the world have pierced ears, are they all Hindu yogis?

   On the same lines, a different issue I'm bringing up. We should not be meddling with our hair, right? With due respect to all, what should a woman with excessive facial hair do? Go to her work place with a beard and be the laughing stock of all? Come on lets be practical, concentrate on doing good of all whom we can, get out of malice, of pettiness and above all enjoy Naam, the only Saviour!
      After death we are not going to be judged as to how strictly we followed our rules but how strictly we tried to be good human beings and how much time we spent in thanking and remembering the Akaal purakh.
      I may not be very well versed in religion but there is one lesson I teach my children as a teacher, and that is to be a good human. 
  Wahe Guru be with us all.


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## Ishna

I think regular piercing is reversible.  You take the earring out, it grows back over.  It's the big stretchy ones that don't grow back over.  And I think cartilage doesn't grow back over either.

So the core of the principle is actually *not to alter the physical form*.  That holds far more water than saying it's a non-religious requirements (as in non-Yogi) in today's world where people are far less likely to associate their piercings with a religion, I think.


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## KulwantK

Sat Nam, everyone!
Thank you all for the answers you have given.  There are a couple of points to also consider regarding the pierced ears, earrings, and pierced noses and nose rings and such.
There are accupressure/accupuncture points all over the face, as well as the body.  When the ears and nose are pierced, it has been found in various studies that such piercings change the way the nervous systems functions; most interestingly that when the nose is pierced, the individual is rendered more suggestible and docile. This would most definitely be something to consider!


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## Harry Haller

Ive considered it, and I'm booking my wife in next week


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

watch out..after the Beadbi and satikaar fellows finish with meat and alcohol..they are coming after the ear rings and nose rings..bet on it....the Road map is there....japposatnamwaheguru::whatzpointsing:


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## Ishna

I know lots of strong women with nose piercings, I'm not sure about that study.

What is the Sikh view around altering the physical body? If I want to pierce my belly button, how can any Sikh take issue with that? If I pierce my ears with the same mentality, what could the problem possibly be?


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## spnadmin

KulwantK said:


> Sat Nam, everyone!
> Thank you all for the answers you have given.  There are a couple of points to also consider regarding the pierced ears, earrings, and pierced noses and nose rings and such.
> There are accupressure/accupuncture points all over the face, as well as the body.  When the ears and nose are pierced, it has been found in various studies that such piercings change the way the nervous systems functions; most interestingly that when the nose is pierced, the individual is rendered more suggestible and docile. This would most definitely be something to consider!




I sincerely think that the argument of "altering" the body fails in a lot of ways. What if an amputation were required to save your life? The issue of piercing...and I am sorry to repeat myself on this point...does not go to altering your body purely in and off itself. The prohibition against piercing is in the SRM  because piercings are associated with religious beliefs that cloud the issue of Sikh identity. Please go back and read earlier posts in this thread.

As soon as we start listing all the ways in which our bodies can be altered it is clear that the focus has shifted to a more latter day "don't do this" and "don't do that" aspect of religion (any religion) which loses its pertinent focus. Choice gets very blurry. This also takes us far from the concerns voiced by findinmyway ji in which our reasons for piercing need to be considered. Is this need coming from "ego?" Have we explored our motivations for piercing. Are these motivations consistent with Guru Nanak's message. IMHO thinking about yourself as a Sikh who keeps a spiritual eye on the the 5 evils gives the guidelines one needs to make decisions about piercing and everything else that puts dilemmas in our path, large and small.


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## Kanwaljit.Singh

@Ishna ji

ਮਃ ੧ ॥
First Mehl:


ਕਿਉ ਮਰੈ ਮੰਦਾ ਕਿਉ ਜੀਵੈ ਜੁਗਤਿ ॥
How is evil eradicated? How can the true way of life be found?


ਕੰਨ ਪੜਾਇ ਕਿਆ ਖਾਜੈ ਭੁਗਤਿ ॥
What is the use of piercing the ears, or begging for food?


ਆਸਤਿ ਨਾਸਤਿ ਏਕੋ ਨਾਉ ॥
Throughout existence and non-existence, there is only the Name of the One Lord.


ਕਉਣੁ ਸੁ ਅਖਰੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਰਹੈ ਹਿਆਉ ॥
What is that Word, which holds the heart in its place?


ਧੂਪ ਛਾਵ ਜੇ ਸਮ ਕਰਿ ਸਹੈ ॥
When you look alike upon sunshine and shade,


ਤਾ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਗੁਰੁ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ॥
Says Nanak, then the Guru will speak to you.


ਛਿਅ ਵਰਤਾਰੇ ਵਰਤਹਿ ਪੂਤ ॥
The students follow the six systems.


ਨਾ ਸੰਸਾਰੀ ਨਾ ਅਉਧੂਤ ॥
They are neither worldly people, nor detached renunciates.


ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰਿ ਜੋ ਰਹੈ ਸਮਾਇ ॥
One who remains absorbed in the Formless Lord


ਕਾਹੇ ਭੀਖਿਆ ਮੰਗਣਿ ਜਾਇ ॥੭॥
- why should he go out begging? ||7||


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## Kanwaljit.Singh

And this Shabad talks of 'piercing' in first line which Guru likes:
http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=3146


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## Ishna

Kanwaljit ji, thank you for providing those shabads.  In the first one you posted, Guru Nanak Dev ji has asked what is the use of pierced ears.  He's not saying "do not pierce your ears puny human!"

In the second one, I believe Guruji is talking metaphorically about piercing the mind.

SPNadmin ji:  The beautiful thing about Sikhi is that it has room for logic.  If your hand is ganggreen and your arm needs to be cut off to save your life, go for it.  That is a different kettle altogether to altering the body for pleasure or ornamentation, as with pierced ears.

This is possibly an example of how the SRM might be upgraded:  perhaps instead of banning earrings it should ban the wearing of any other religious symbols or any body modification for religious purposes other than Sikh.

What possible reason could someone have to pierce their ears if they are not trying to look better?  Thereby, banning the practice outright protects those who might not be able to realise they might pierce their ears for reasons which go against progression towards becoming a Gurmukh.


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## sachbol

Piercing nose or ears might have been banned but almost all Sikh 
women (That includes my mother, my wife my daughter and my 
grand daughter) have pierced their ears and most of them their 
noses. 
You may say this is anti Sikhism but question is, can you stop them ?icecreamkudi


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## Ishna

It's not up to anyone to stop them (except grace), it comes down to their personal relationship with the Sat and, taking what others have learned before them, figuring out what is a true and wholesome practice and what isn't, and then applying it in their lives.

The SRM banning earrings because they are used within some religions may be true, however it is akin to banning the consumption of all meat because some of it is ritually slaughtered, to my mind.

I think the primary issue of earrings in the diaspora is they serve no other purpose but to improve one's outer image and serves nothing other than the Ego.  It has no logical or rational purpose in Sikhi.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Its also to control HAUMAII....False Pride...

IS saying...WHY LIE ?? not the same as saying..DONT LIE ??   WHY WEAR ??? isnt it saying..DONT WEAR ???

Wearing earings to    "look better"... is it the same as...the INJUNCTION to Chun chun ke bandhi dastaar...the Sikh is instructed to tie the DASTAAR DAILY..taking care to ensure each Layer is carefully and nicely straightened out...pulled tight..so the dastaar doesnt look shabbily tied ! ???? why a sikh must take so much care to ensure his dastaar LOOKS GOOD..whiel to "look good" wearing ear rings is banned ?? is there a contradiction ?/
The answer is NO...the dastaar injunction is DISCILINE..REHAT..no laziness of instant dastaars allowed...


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## aristotle

Will the non-piercing type earrings be allowed in Sikhism? They don't pierce the ear and work on the principles of magnetism using tiny magnets at both ends, they don't fall off and are comfortable too.......


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## Ishna

It it up to the individual, but I would say the end result is the same whether you have pierced ears or wear fake ones. The objective is still to look for no other reason other than societal peer pressure and egotistical pride. That is, pride for the sake of the ego.

It is a challenge in the west to go without earrings. 
They are almost part of clothing for females and one can feel underdressed in the office without them.
I am struggling with my own ego to part ways with my three ear piercings (down from five almost a year ago), so I know it's not as simple as I make it sound.


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## aristotle

But there is a slight difference, Sikh Rehat Maryada specifically bans the piercing jewelery, in that case is the non piercing jewelery permitted?? That would perhaps help the Sikh females adjust better in the society they live.


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## Ishna

If one wants to follow the rules just for the sake of following the rules because that's what the rules say, that's fine, but it may not assist ones growth towards Divine realisation, which appears to be the purpose of ones precious human life.

The SRM is there to help us along the path. It isn't THE path, there is much more behind it than just the rules.

One needs to ask why pierced ears are forbidden. Understand the real reasons why, and the question of wearing clip-on or magnetic earrings becomes irrelevant.


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## aristotle

Yeah, no code-of-conduct in Sikhism is without reasons, or just for the sake of following; there's always a deeper meaning attached to it. But, what I asked was that, in some cases, there may be an adjustment problem with other members of the society, for example, in an office or a peer group. In that case, a thing as small as earrings may be the cause of mental tension for a Sikh. In that case, can the non piercing earrings be worn, without any possible confrontation with the tenets of Sikhism, because non piercing jewellery is not specifically prohibited in Sikhism???????


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## Ishna

Personally, I think to wear them to fit in might not be a very good idea because then we start to compromise other things for the same reason. Start tweazering eyebrows to fit in, men start shaving beard to fit in, no dastaars because they definately don't fit in. False earrings are a small challenge against these other ones.

I could start wearing revealing clothes to fit in with my peer group. I could eat anything presented to me without another thought because that would really help me fit in. Come summertime (winter in Oz ATM) I'll have to shave my legs etc to fit in... You see the slippery slope.

The slope goes the other way too-forsaking all jewelry. But that has already been discussed earlier in the thread.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

The SRM was framed by ordinary Lay men...and today we have a generation of LAW EXPERTS...people who cna naylyse each word to DEATH....what hope do the simple sentences of the SRM have of standing up to such microscopic scrutiny...by English Language experts....people whose First Langaueg si Englsih compared to the siksh who translated the Original Punjabi SRM to "Englsih" as best as they could...people born and bred and raised in the WEST...etc etc...
The SRM of necessity has a BACKGROUND..it WASNT constructed in a STERILE ENVIRONMENT....it was constructed by Punjabi Sikhs... mostly of Jatt background.. Sons of Sardars...landed families..sikh/punjabi/punjabiat culture influences...sikh history etc etc etc...so MUCH BAGGAGE....of which we have not an iota or slightest inkling at all...
IF the SRM were framed by those who framed the American Declaration of Rights...it would be different..IF the SIKHS who framed the SRM were asked to frame the Amercian declaration fo Rights..would it be the Exact SAME Document ?? Could the SRM framers write the exact Charter that set up the British democratic institutions..the MAGNA CARTA ?? Could the writers of the Magna carta write the same SRM we have before us today..??
THESE are the LIMITATIONS we often dont see...I am wearing the "spectacles" coloured by a WESTERN CAMBRIDGE EDUCATION SYSTEM....how can I see the same thing a sikh boy from a  rural village who went through the Khalsa School education system ??? OR see eye to eye a SIKH who studied in KENYA...UGANDA...IRELAND ?? IRAN ?? ISRAELI EDUCATION SYSTEM ?? Can the POPE see exactly what the jathedar Akal takhat sees ?? IF tomorrow the POPE and JAT were to exchange posts..would they succeed in their new positions ?? Would the JAT be a BETTER or worse POPE ??

The SRM has different levels..the superficial..the secondary...the "unseen but MEANT" level...the "between the lines"...the "understood" level..the Common sense level..the ridiculous level...the DIRTY WATER ENTERS a FILTER..goes through the various different levels....stones..co{censored} sand..fine sand..finer snad..activated carbon..etc etc before it emerges CLEAN and CLEAR....same way to approach the SRM..our MIND must be tuned to enter....and EMERGE at the end clear and clean...fully in TUNE with what the SRM formulators intended..what the GURU intends..the ACTIVATED CARBON that removes all DOUBTS/DUALITY/ODOURS fo the MIND..is LOVE for teh GURU....its been said...*NO MATTER HOW long we WALK on our FEET..we will NEVER finish the journey...NOT UNTIL we give up on FEET..and Begin walking ON OUR HEAD !!! MATHA TEK !!! and surrender to GURU.period.*


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

Heres just one example about what i am trying to put across in my post jsut above this one.
IN Punjabi we have a Saying....Na Tinnah vich ate Na teraan vich - ( Not in 3 nor in 13 ) which stands for..Neither HERE nor THERE....where its being sued to descibe a Fence Sitter type who is neither "here" nor "there".

Now where di the 3 and 13 come from...?? 3 is for "HERE"....and 13 is for "THERE"....BUT how ??

Well the 13 comes from the Bible New testament. Jesus ahd 13 Disciples and IN the Final moments just before His Arrest, the Govt people asked Jesus..How Many Disciples do you have ? 13 He replied. OK in that case we will have to KILL the 13 Firts before we kill you. ON hearing this..ALL 13 DENIED JESUS and ran away. ( I am not vouching for the 100% truth or otherwise of this....its just a saying..based on popular folk wisdom...anyoen familiar with the New Testament may know better than me)

The 3 comes from  Guru Teg bahadur Jis Final moments. Guur Teg bahadur Ji had 3 Disciples - SIKHS with him and the Govt kazi declared..we will KILL these 3 First. The kazi pointed to Bhai MATI DASS..OK step Forward..you are First. You will be sawn alive.I have only one request said Bhai mati dass Ji...TURN MY FACE TOWARDS MY GURU when SAWING ME ASUNDER. The saw was placed on his head and he was sawed asunder...facing Guru Ji until he breathed his last. OK youa re next the Kazi said to Bhai Dyala...you will be BOILED ALIVE. Thats OK..but please place the pot so I cna FACE my GURU while I die said Bhai Dyala. The saem thing happened to Bhai SATI DASS - younger brother of Bhai mati dass the one sawed alive earlier. Bhai sati dass Ji also FACED His GURU while he was wrapped in Cotton, soaked in oil and set ALIGHT to be burned alive.

SO There you are..TO BE Counted among the "3" means YOU are COUNTED and willing to STAND for your CONVICTION...You are HERE.  To be among the "13" means one who ahs RUN AWAY....abdicated his responsibility....he is not "Here or THERE"....he is NO WHERE.

This si the type fo Cultural social linguistic etc etc types of EXPOSURE one ahs to have on BOTH languages one wishes to translate between !! When Manmohan Singh began the task of translating the SGGS..he was at this task for 18 hours a DAY for 25 years !!! He suffered a Heart ttack in between. What I mean to say is that manmohan Singh was translating a "Holy/religious text......so he laboured under the impression that the ENGLISH VOCABULARY he should use would ahev to be "religiously coloured"...and he ahd the Bible before him as an example...thats why just 50 years ago..manmohan singh laboured to use "obviously religious words like "THOU THEE THINE..when the Ordinary English speaker had been uisng YOU, YOURS, Your, etc etc for more than 500 years at least...Take a look at Manmohan Singh Ji's 8 Volume SGGS translation and see the Thous and Thees all over !! Its like a Christian translating the Bible into Punjabi using vocabulary of SGGS to translate Biblical stories..??? even though SGGS uses only 500 yaers ago langauge...while the Bible uses English much older than that...:happysingh::happysingh:


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## aristotle

That's right. What we mean by a 'translation' is a text which the common man can easily understand. The same would become almost irrelevant if the reader has to laboriously take the help of a dictionary to understand the translation. The KJV version of bible which uses archaic words like 'ere','thou','thine' etc. gave way to more 'literal' translations like the NKJV, ESV etc. The Quran translations like that by Maulawi Sher Ali (which I have read) present the message of scripture in a very easy and contemporary tone. I'm still waiting for a 'literal' English 'translation' of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
I may be wrong, but the thing I have noticed is that, the western scriptures are often translated by a 'team' of scholars(running into a large number, even morethan 50 in some cases, and that too from almost all races and ethnicities) comprising priests, language experts, psychologists etc.  rather than a single person, but in our case it is frequently only a single or at the most two and not a team which carry the process of translation. Maybe constituting a team of experts may help to provide a breakthrough in the translation works.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh

aristotle said:


> That's right. What we mean by a 'translation' is a text which the common man can easily understand. The same would become almost irrelevant if the reader has to laboriously take the help of a dictionary to understand the translation. The KJV version of bible which uses archaic words like 'ere','thou','thine' etc. gave way to more 'literal' translations like the NKJV, ESV etc. The Quran translations like that by Maulawi Sher Ali (which I have read) present the message of scripture in a very easy and contemporary tone. I'm still waiting for a 'literal' English 'translation' of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
> I may be wrong, but the thing I have noticed is that, the western scriptures are often translated by a 'team' of scholars(running into a large number, even morethan 50 in some cases, and that too from almost all races and ethnicities) comprising priests, language experts, psychologists etc.  rather than a single person, but in our case it is frequently only a single or at the most two and not a team which carry the process of translation. Maybe constituting a team of experts may help to provide a breakthrough in the translation works.




THATS WHERE the SIKHS were failed by the SGPC...etc. WE gave the SGPC Control fo vast amounts of GOLUCK..running into BILLIONS over 90 YEARS of CONTROL...absolutley NOTHING of such came out of this... Except one four volum shabarth...sanchees with meanings too short to be of much service..
e
1. Manmohan Singh did his 8 volume translation ALL on his own money efort time and health...19 hours a day at it for 25 years with a year or two of sickness due to heart attack in between. I Beleive it was his fervent ARDASS to GURU JI to bless him with just enough time to FINISH the last remaining volueme..and this ardass was HEARD. Manmohan gave ALL RIGHTS to SGPC and SGPC is benefitting form the thousands of copies sold yearly without contributing a single cent...

2. Prof SAHIB SINGH also completed his magnificent SGGS Darpan all on hsi own head...

3. Veer Singh was doing hsi own translationa nd unfortuantely died half way...so his work is half done.

4. GS Talibs translation- all his own effort

5 Prof Hrabans singh doabias work..all his own..

So are a number of otehr works..all based on authors individual efforts.

Govt Universities have been concentrating on DG !!!

IN the olden days we were unfortunate to be waylaid by tyranny/ wars not of our making etc...and when we gained soem breathing space and got control fo the Gurdawras via SGPC/Akali dal..we were still not at peace as the new Independent GOI also took the path of confrontation...and the SGPC Akali dal came to be gobbled up by corruption/rss etc...putting us in a worse situation than even the late 18th century of persecution and terror..now its subtle subverison..sweet poison to kill SIKHI than SIKHS..


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## jasbirkaleka

Kanwaljit Singh said:


> And this Shabad talks of 'piercing' in first line which Guru likes:
> http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=3146



I THINK GURU NANAK DEV JI IS REFERRING TO MEDIC ANTS OR FOLLOWERS OF GORAKH NATH, WHO PIERCED THIER EARS AND BEGGED FOR   ALMS.


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## BhagatSingh

Ishna ji, 
So it seems we are always on a slope. Perhaps, we need not travel anywhere, and just be where we are and rest.


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## Ambarsaria

harry haller said:


> Ive considered it, and I'm booking my wife in next week


I have seen Buffalo (Jhotey - male Buffalo) that pull carts in Punjab with noses pierced like,







We need to recognize that SRM creators were all men (I cannot prove that) so they had little first hand experience of what women like/want or do without being bad lol.

Jasbirkaleka and Gyani Jarnail Singh ji has covered this in other posts as to the origin of or possible reason for mention in SRM.  The following was not that was flagged in intent as it sure is not evil looking,






The following crowd's associated such practices probably were intended,






By the way guys, this is common knowledge among Indian ladies that "Fiddies" (one's with flat broad nose) wear nose rings to compensate their nose being not as beautiful versus the pointed ones. icecreammunda

Sat Sri Akal.


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## BhagatSingh

> We need to recognize that SRM creators were all men (I cannot prove  that) so they had little first hand experience of what women like/want  or do without being bad lol.


Hahaha!

True. Could we also say, they did not have first hand experience of what the people in that crowd like/want to do without being bad?


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## Ambarsaria

BhagatSingh said:


> Hahaha!
> 
> True. Could we also say, they did not have first hand experience of what the people in that crowd like/want to do without being bad?


Bhagat Singh ji that is quite possible too.  The list indicated some well meaning and learned men.

However, after all there is always a limitation inherent in any such effort based on collective or dominant wisdom.  Sometimes dominant or collective wisdom can differ and either can be less than desirable.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## BhagatSingh

Hmm... I think at a closer look any list indicates well meaning and learned men. Why any list then seems desirable or undesirable is beyond me... His command perhaps?


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## Ambarsaria

BhagatSingh said:


> Hmm... I think at a closer look any list indicates well meaning and learned men.
> 
> Why any list then seems desirable or undesirable is beyond me
> 
> _I meant in the context of the outcomes of such gatherings or collection in terms of the best that could have been achieved._
> 
> ... His command perhaps?


Sat Sri Akal.


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## BhagatSingh

Yes. What did you think I meant?


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## Ambarsaria

BhagatSingh said:


> Yes. What did you think I meant?


Me no mind reader  mundahug, me guess sometimes and me guess right and me guess wrong.

We are going little off-topic me thinks.  Let us give others a chance to participate.:sippingcoffeemunda:

Sat Sri Akal.


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## spnadmin

jasbirkaleka said:


> I THINK GURU NANAK DEV JI IS REFERRING TO MEDIC ANTS OR FOLLOWERS OF GORAKH NATH, WHO PIERCED THIER EARS AND BEGGED FOR   ALMS.




Yes Guru Nanak is referring exactly to that. That point was covered very early in this thread ....by me... and I thank you for restating the point and putting it in CAPS so we don't get lost in extrapolations from then to now.

Yes the thread is going off topic.


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## Ishna

Spnadmin ji and Jasbir ji

I think the confusion / overthinking comes thusly:

1. many, many people have their ears pierced, including Sikh women
2. the SRM says "no piercing for wearing ornaments"
3. people thus pierced wonder why
4. they discover it was in relation to yogis/various other groups wearing them as part of their religion
5. the pierced people today think "well my piercings are just for looks / because I like them, they're not for religion, so why can't I keep them / get pierced in the first place?"

It is almost a case of the SRM having said no piercing, end of story.

Just like the DG prayers.  That's what the SRM specifies for Sikhs, so accept it until it's changed.

So, to help justify in the mind of Sikhs who think their piercing has nothing to do with any other religion and can't possibly be anti-Sikh in that context, they reach out for other reasons to justify their action.  Otherwise it's just blind following because the SRM says so, and I think THAT is more anti-gurmat (following blindly what the leaders say).

So if we can generate some more reasons why we shouldn't have our ears pierced, it gives more reason to follow the rules, gives people more confidence in their antisocial choice to not wear their earrings.

If I take them out now, and my colleagues say "Ishna, why have you taken your earrings out??" the conversation might go something like this:

"Why have you taken your earrings out, they looked good on you!"
"It's against my religion"
"Why?"
"Because I'm not supposed to look like a nath yogi"
"What's a nath yogi?"
And I'm left looking like a fool.

If I can find other reasons, the conversation might go like this:
"Why have you taken your earrings out, they looked good on you!"
"It's against my religion"
"Why?"
"Because they are a distraction to me, reminding me more about how my body looks to other people than how the divine in me looks to other people."

Just an example, probably a poor one.

But you've got to have strong conviction behind your actions, especially when it's against something as apparently benign and societal as dainty feminine ear piercings.


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## BhagatSingh

Ishna ji,
I admire your continuous effort to resolve such issues. I am probably not going to help your praiseworthy case with this post.



> "Why have you taken your earrings out, they looked good on you!"
> "It's against my religion"
> "Why?"
> *"Because I'm not supposed to look like a nath yogi"*
> "What's a nath yogi?"


I LOLed at that.  IMO the second line of reasoning works better.

When you see someone wear earrings, do you really think they look like a nath yogi? 






Uh oh... they have turbans...

I think this earring debate is fairly modern. Old paintings of male Sikhs are shown with earrings.
Maharaja Ranjit Singh (young)





Hari Singh Nalwa





Fresco of Guru Ram Das ji getting Gurgaddi (fairly modern fresco, late 1800s I believe, but still) :





This painting is claimed to be a imagined meeting of Guru Gobind Singh ji and Guru Nanak Dev ji. Not sure about this the authenticity of this image but again Guru sahib is depicted with an earring.






Apparently ear-rings are worn by high status men. So not as "as dainty feminine ear piercings."

Source:Guru Gobind Singh meets Guru Nanak Dev | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Perhaps it's because of the onset of British raj that earrings became less of a male thing. High status British men would not have worn them and so... 

I don't know. My well wishes to all women (and men) who choose not to wear earrings.


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## spnadmin

At some point we have to say to HELL with what other people think and go with our own decision, not for want of orderly direction from external sources  (voices on the Internet), but because of deep personal deliberation for want of a better word, of the message of Gurbani. Explain your decision one time. If someone doesn't get it or prefers an argument, just move on. 

Yes the SRM says we do not pierce our body. Yes, one can wear earrings without piercing. That of course does not address the matters of ego and "fitting in" with one's cultural norms, does it? This we know from personal experience.

Here is my point. Guru Nanak did not forbid piercing or the wearing of earrings. The  SRM forbids piercing, as well as tattoos, and other things, but not jewelry. So where has this discourse been taking us here and on other forums as well? There are lessons about adorning our bodies that come directly from Guru Nanak. There are lessons that come from the SRM (which we understand better if we have the historical context). And then there are teachings that are coming from neither of these sources, but from one another, from our fellow Sikhs, more or less aligned with Guru Nanak, more or less aligned with the SRM, and definitely extensions of how individuals and subgroups within Sikhi interpret Guru Nanak and the SRM. Often I think this is just another version of a cultural skin. Take off the cultural femininity skin and don another one. Discuss it in terms of losing our egos, or ridding ourselves of social "vices," and then the full force of social monitoring takes over. Only this time it is Sikhs monitoring Sikhs and the fundamental message is lost.

This is just my opinion. We should wear our Sikhi like a suit of fine clothes. May it include our kaakkars. May it also include the life of simran, seva and honest work. May it fit well.


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## Ambarsaria

> There is a great danger here!​


I believe we are jumping into some  type of a precipice during this discussion.  

Spirituality and religious beliefs aside, Sikhism fundamentally recognizes the creation and creator as a continuous partner in our journey and at all moments.  This is foremost of all.

Have we fully understood what creation and creator influences are?  Perhaps spirituality and more inner learning opens more knowledge and greater correctness and completeness in our thinking and living.

The unachievable and misleading goals of slaying the five demons (Kaam, Karodh, Lobh, Moh and Ahankar/Hankaar) as an end in itself perhaps is not what creator and the creation expects of us.  There have been posts by Harry Haller ji in other threads and comments by others as to the role of lust (Kam, Moh and combos thereof) in procreation and raising of families and children.  I believe the answer to such manner of slaying is actually having the elements in control and in balance.  If such were the case issues like makeup, earrings, tatoos, and much more can fall by the wayside with reasonable latitude of everyone being unique and having various levels of so called good and bad in them.  Perfection sought may be a goal, perfection achieved is many times disaster on most facets of living.

So I hypothesize that avoiding all ways to look pretty or attractive to the other sex and banking evrything on inner beauty and spirituality, though commendable, has the potential of becoming a much bigger negative influence.  Happiness achieved with minimal effort (without obsession) like makeup, jewelary or ornaments is not an evil or bad thing if it leaves much more energies available to do the deeper elements of spirituality and living in consonance.

It is absurd for us to somehow claim that Sikhs don't have hormones, adrenalin and somehow have become devoid of such.  This will be a false statement as creator and creation makes us from the same that all others are made of.

Great introspection and moderation of thought is needed.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Harry Haller

Gurfatehji

My own two pence, 

Maybe it has nothing to do with pride and ego, after all our own Gurus were always depicted as being very smartly turned out, they all looked beautiful and made imposing figures, but did not feel the need to show us all how humble they were by dressing in rags. 

Maybe its the drawing of a fine line in the sand, be beautiful, look smart, look like a King or a Princess, but if you feel the need to violate your physical form in order to obtain that look, then you are going too far, and you need to pull back a bit, as ego and pride are entering you. 

Maybe what it is saying is that if you have to suffer pain in order to look pretty, you may have a problem with being obsessed with looking good

I am reminded of the wife of the granthi where spmadminji goes to Gurdwara, with large gold rings on each finger, a beacon to sikhs everywhere  that take pride in unpride and have a huge ego in not having an ego, the woman has obviously made peace with herself and the creator, and also a lesson for all of us that seek the bliss of union with god, that life is also around us, and needs our input and is carrying on while some of us focus only on the union with god. 

I note that I have a 'writer' icon under my name now, of course, it is with some curiosity  that I noticed this the last time I logged on, and many thanks to whoever put it there, it was completely unexpected, it was not something I was working to, I just wanted to write, I love writing, in the same way,if I love the creator, and if one day the creator honours me by stamping me with his mark, it will be because I was just living, and being in consonance, not because I was looking for it, and thats what makes it all the more special.


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