# Naam Simran And Failure



## pk70 (Oct 11, 2008)

* NAAM – SIMRAN and failure*

  It is like chasing the wind, nothing materializes but the race goes on, isn’t it very strange that after liking it, dreaming it, the effort of Naam-Simran still doesn’t bring the stillness of mind as it is meant for? Isn’t it necessary to understand the reason behind this failure as it is described in Gurbani? Let’s look over it seriously. First, let us understand what is meant by Naam as per Gurbani.
  To make it very simple, as per Gurbani, NAAM means the Creator 
*ਮਿਲੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਭਜੁ ਕੇਵਲ**ਨਾਮ**॥**੧*॥( *SGGS 12)*Mil sāḏẖsangaṯ bẖaj keval nām. ||1||
Join the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy; meditate on Name, the Lord. |
*ਲਿਖੁ**ਨਾਮ**ੁ** ਸਾਲਾਹ ਲਿਖੁ ਲਿਖੁ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰੁ **॥**੧**॥*
Likẖ nām sālāh likẖ likẖ anṯ na pārāvār. ||1||
Write the Praises of the Naam, the Name of the Lord; write over and over again that He has no end or limitation. ||1||
(*ਮਃ **1  SGGS 16*)
*ਨਾਮੁ**ਜਪਤ**ਨਾਮੁ ਰਿਦੇ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ**॥
*Nām japaṯ nām riḏe bīcẖāre.
Meditating on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and contemplating the Naam *within our hearts,*
*(**ਮਃ **5  SGGS 202) *

   . Many names are attributed to the NAAM

*.(**ਤੇਰੇ**ਨਾਮ ਅਨੇਕ**ਕੀਮਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਈ **॥** (SGGS 1067)*
Ŧere nām anek kīmaṯ nahī pā▫ī.
Your Names are countless; your value cannot be estimated (Here it is expressed how with different names, Naam, the Lord, is addressed but still He is inexpressible).

    So let’s move on to “Naam Japna” and “Naam Simran”, in Gurbani, Naam Simran or Naam Japna” is considered above all religious deeds.
*ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਾ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਊਚਾ **॥ **ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੈ ਸਿਮਰਨਿ ਉਧਰੇ ਮੂਚਾ **॥**(SGGS 263)*
Lord's meditation is the most exalted of all. Through Master's meditation many have been saved. 
*ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਹੁ ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ **॥ **ਨਾਨਕ ਪਾਵਹੁ ਸੂਖ ਘਨੇਰੇ **॥**੧**॥*
O my soul, through the Guru, utter the Name of God. O Nanak thus shalt thou have many comforts.   (SGGS 264)

    So what is literally Naam japna ?, how it can be done and  how He can be realized? How Naam can be achieved?  A lot of scholars have tried to define it; the more they define the more difficult it becomes to comprehend its concept for a layman. Is it just reciting His Name? If just reciting is enough then how come Brahmins were questioned by Guru Nanak as they would recite “mantras” like parrots?  Certainly it is more than that. Do you remember Guru Vaak that says clearly that by merely saying His name, HE is not obtained? Here it is
  ”* ਰਾਮ ਰਾਮ*ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਕਹਿਐ ਰਾਮੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
Rām rām sabẖ ko kahai kahi▫ai rām na ho▫e.
Everyone says the Lord's Name, Raam, Raam; but by merely saying, the Lord is not obtained.
ਮਃ 3  SGGS 491)
    This has been my struggle for a while. Every time I studied Gurbani, I kept looking for an answer to this puzzling question. I knew it would be there. Once I came across a Guru Vaak in context of “bowing”, surprisingly Guru has given a new meaning to it, have a look at that Guru Vaak
ਤੁਧਨੋ ਨਿਵਣੁ*ਮੰਨਣ*ੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਉ ॥
Ŧuḏẖno nivaṇ manaṇṯerā nā▫o.
To place one's faith in Your Name Lord, is true obeisance.
ਮਃ 1   SGGS 878)
  The stress is again on “*faith”. * As by merely reciting Lord’s name is not enough, by merely saying “I believe in Him” is not enough either. Believing in HIM is total surrender to His ordinance. Other than that “ I believe in Him “ is a self deception
ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਮੰਨਿਐ ਅਵਰਿ ਕਾਰਾ ਸਭਿ ਬਾਦਿ ॥ 
Jap ṯap sabẖ kicẖẖ mani▫ai avar kārā sabẖ bāḏ. 
Meditation, austerity and everything come through belief in the Lord's Name. All other actions are useless. 

ਨਾਨਕ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਮੰਨੀਐ ਬੁਝੀਐ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦਿ ॥੨॥ (SGGS 954)
Nānak mani▫ā mannī▫ai bujẖī▫ai gur parsāḏ. ||2|| 
O Nanak, believe in the One who is worth believing in. By Guru's Grace, he is realized. ||2||( Here Tr. Is not accurate, mania=believing in, manniai= accepted, bujhi ai= realization, it means, ‘Nanak says when *He is believed truly* by some one, with the grace of Guru one is accepted and realizes the Lord”)

    Now here it is clearer interpretation, the act of being accepted and realization of Lord also comes with grace of Guru to understand HIM, to know HIM otherwise we just say that we believe in HIM but literally we don’t.  So believing starts the real journey with a ticket, the otherwise there is just sheer talk. Sorry to say so but it is true.  We say His Name everyday but come back to the situation of “business as usual”. If we believe in HIM then why don’t we change ourselves and why do we keep “I” in front seat? Why we want that thing more and more that actually builds barrier between Him and us.  There is another truth; we want more because we don’t believe that without asking He will give us. That is the fall. That is very strange too. If we just do not believe that He would take care of us without asking anything, how we can say we have faith in Him then ( manaṇṯerā nā▫o.)?. In Gurbani  to do prayer to Him to have basics of life to go on is not prohibited but “greed” is which is prohibited.  If faith in Him is there, the subject of the prayer changes to His Naam If that faith is not there how our recitation of His Name can be sincere and fruitful?  Bhagat Kabir ji states that with the complete faith in Him, all recitation of His`Name will materialize in nothing. 
*ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ਗਉੜੀ **॥ **ਕਿਆ ਜਪੁ ਕਿਆ ਤਪੁ ਕਿਆ ਬ੍ਰਤ ਪੂਜਾ **॥ **ਜਾ ਕੈ ਰਿਦੈ ਭਾਉ ਹੈ ਦੂਜਾ *॥੧॥ Gauri Kabir Ji. What avails meditation, what penance and what fasting and worship to Him, in whose heart there is the love of another( Maya etc)? 
       So while being attracted to other Maya, faith in Him remains fragile. Kabir ji’s warning is a fact, we hear it but we have become habitual of ignoring it easily. If the element of “tudh no mannan”( having faith in Him) lacks, Jap  or Simran remains a kind of conditional ritual..
  What is the reason here that negates all efforts of our getting close to Him, into nothing, what is that? Answer by Guru ji is very clear in the following
*ਮਃ ੩ **॥ **ਮਾਇਆਧਾਰੀ ਅਤਿ ਅੰਨਾ ਬੋਲਾ **॥ **ਸਬਦੁ ਨ ਸੁਣਈ ਬਹੁ ਰੋਲ ਘਚੋਲਾ **॥ (SGGS 313)  *
3rd Guru. The man attached to mammon is very blind and deaf. He hears not the Name and makes a great uproar and tumult.  
  So what is the right way then to proceed on this path?  Gurbani doesn’t advocate to abandon this world to become indifferent to Maya, actually supports the idea to be immaculate while living right in it and enjoy the state of mind to be with HIM
*ਮਃ ੫ **॥ **ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਭੇਟਿਐ ਪੂਰੀ ਹੋਵੈ ਜੁਗਤਿ **॥ **ਹਸੰਦਿਆ ਖੇਲੰਦਿਆ ਪੈਨੰਦਿਆ ਖਾਵੰਦਿਆ ਵਿਚੇ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ **॥**੨**॥  (SGGS 522) *
5th Guru. O Nanak, by meeting the True Guru, man comes to know the perfect way, and while laughing, playing, dressing and eating, he gets emancipated.  ( means while living right in Maya) 
      So the one who surrenders to Guru, shows interest only in Him and meditates on Him; however, the faith in HIM should be a base of that meditation. It shouldn’t be done just for the sake of doing, it shouldn’t be done to show others or to show the Lord like a favor” I remember you Lord, I do Bani recitation, so take care of me” That is the lowest behavior towards the Lord.
*ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ **॥ **ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੁਣਿ ਮੰਨੇ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਇ *॥ 
Gurmukh meditate on Guru Shabad, they do recitation of Name They hear and believe in God's Name and in God's Name they are absorbed. 
Here is the real surrendering which we rarely do, we say that we love His “ordinance” but never stop commenting on an incident that does not go in our way. We do not in true sense believe in His care. While surrendering, only in Him, the faith is put and we should take all things good or bad on our way as they come as a token of acceptance of His ordinance. There should be no “ cry- baby” attitude. There should be awareness of His being in control.
*ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੁ ਕਰੇ ਕਰਾਇਆ **॥ **ਨਾਨਕ ਵਜਦਾ ਜੰਤੁ ਵਜਾਇਆ **॥**੨*॥ 
Whatever pleases Him that He does and causes to be done. Nanak human being the instrument, plays as the Lord causes him to play. 
   Unless an effort to comprehend His Ordinance is not done, we are prone to slip away from Him due to the net of temptations we ourselves weave due to multifarious influence of Maya. In Jap Ji Sahib, to understand His Ordinance and to abide by it through understanding, it is considered the key to progress in spirituality. Sometimes, if we follow our mind, His Hukam is misunderstood, so Guru is needed.
*ਕਥਉ ਨ ਕਥਨੀ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥ 
[/FONT]*Katha▫o na kathnī hukam pacẖẖānā. 
[/FONT]I do not speak empty speech; I have recognized the Hukam of His Command.
[/FONT]*ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਨਾ *॥੮॥੧॥(SGGS 221) 
[/FONT]Nānak gurmaṯ sahj samānā. ||8||1|| 

*CONTINUES*

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## pk70 (Oct 11, 2008)

*re: Naam Simram and Failure*

Nanak is absorbed in intuitive peace through the Guru's Teachings. ||8||1||
   How? We read Gurbani, we discuss it and try to understand it but still are not able to understand His Ordinance. Here is the answer
*ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਨਹ ਚੀਨਿਆ ਜਾਇ **॥ **ਬਿਨੁ ਮਾਰੇ ਕਿਉ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਪਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ **॥ *
Through cleverness, (the Master) cannot be known. Without conquering (the mind), how can Lord's worth be appraised? Pause. 
   So basically, it is the mind that creates hindrances in understanding His Ordinance. This has been verified in Gurbani that due to mind being in duality and its lack of faith in one Creator and His infinite power, it wanders to all directions at its own , so it is not possible to have “undisturbed meditation” on HIM.  With distracted attention, reciting remains a conditional ritual. 
*ਮਨੂਆ**ਦਹ ਦਿਸ**ਧਾਵਦਾ ਓਹੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ **(SGGS 565*)
Manū▫ā ḏah ḏis ḏẖāvḏā oh kaise har guṇ gāvai.
His mind wanders in the ten directions - how can he sing the praise of the Lord?


We condition ourselves to ignore what we do not want to do, for example, on SPN, we see and read a request for donation but we ignore it, we understand if a little is contributed, a difference can be made for the site we frequently visit and share or learn different ideas from.  Then what stop us from supporting it? It is the same conditioned approach we take towards every thing including “religion”. Our efforts to be religious are tailored as per our preferences. Without sincerity religion is reduced to a culture, progression is sacrificed over accepted hypocrisy. So it is very important that we get out of that self created niche and fall sincerely for Him who created us.
 It is very crucial to turn the mind towards the Lord with a strong longing for HIM. Love happens with focused attention. After falling in love with Him, concentrating on Him becomes natural because in the mind there is nothing but His love; all others just become His gifts suitable or unsuitable to us.  Mind needs to be surrendered to Guru who takes the mind out of turbulence by shattering all doubts about HIM and enforces His need as a mandatory for soul’s union with Him. This kind of surrender will not let cleverness of mind play games any more because with the surrender every thing that tempts it ceases to exist. In reciting His Name will become fascinating act, His memory in mind will enable us to look at the world as a transitory and will inspire to work to move on but never ever get carried away by any temptation that can put a chain around us. Now ‘simran” will become an aid to keep walking on this virtuous path intact. In simran, then, ecstasy of union with Him is felt strongly.
I shall introduce to you a shabad by Bhagat Ravidas Ji in which he says,” we say His name, listen others saying His name, then why we fail. Why concerns and fears do not leave us”. He answers then “lust, anger, ego and jealousy and Maya involvements, rob us of our capability to realize Him. The complexes of being knowledgeable, of high class, having spiritually mastery and being brave to shun the world, being brave warrior and being great giver, do not leave us ever”. This is the situation that our feet are deep into quagmire of Maya, then where is the chance left to love Him with sincerity.  Now ponder over Bhagat ji’s Shabad.[/FONT]

[/FONT]    ਪੜੀਐ ਗੁਨੀਐ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਭੁ ਸੁਨੀਐ ਅਨਭਉ ਭਾਉ ਨ ਦਰਸੈ ॥ 
The mortals read, hear and reflect upon the innumerable Names of the Lord. but they can see not the Embodiment of gnosis and love. 

ਲੋਹਾ ਕੰਚਨੁ ਹਿਰਨ ਹੋਇ ਕੈਸੇ ਜਉ ਪਾਰਸਹਿ ਨ ਪਰਸੈ ॥੧॥ 
How can iron become invaluable gold, if it touches not the philosopher's stone?
ਦੇਵ ਸੰਸੈ ਗਾਂਠਿ ਨ ਛੂਟੈ ॥ 
O Lord, the knot of doubt and concern unravels not. 

ਕਾਮ ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਦ ਮਤਸਰ ਇਨ ਪੰਚਹੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਲੂਟੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
Lust, wrath, worldly valuables egotism and jealously; these five combined are plundering the whole world. Pause. 

ਹਮ ਬਡ ਕਬਿ ਕੁਲੀਨ ਹਮ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਹਮ ਜੋਗੀ ਸੰਨਿਆਸੀ ॥ 
I am a great poet and of high family. I am a scholar and I am a Yogi and a solitarian. 

ਗਿਆਨੀ ਗੁਨੀ ਸੂਰ ਹਮ ਦਾਤੇ ਇਹ ਬੁਧਿ ਕਬਹਿ ਨ ਨਾਸੀ ॥੨॥ 
I am a virtuous divine, a warrior and a donor; such thinking perishes not ever. 

ਕਹੁ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਸਭੈ ਨਹੀ ਸਮਝਸਿ ਭੂਲਿ ਪਰੇ ਜੈਸੇ ਬਉਰੇ ॥ 
Says Ravidas, all the people understand not God and go astray like mad men. 

ਮੋਹਿ ਅਧਾਰੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ ਜੀਵਨ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਧਨ ਮੋਰੇ ॥੩॥੧॥ (SGGS973)
The Lord's Name is my support, my life, soul and wealth.
 Satguru Nanak Ji also says that we are enveloped in different desirous pleasures, due to it there is no place for His Love to sow in. This mentality needs to be dismantled completely otherwise self deception will remain our destiny. 
ਰਸੁ ਸੁਇਨਾ ਰਸੁ ਰੁਪਾ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਰਸੁ ਪਰਮਲ ਕੀ ਵਾਸੁ ॥ 
The pleasure of gold, pleasure of silvers and damsels, pleasure of fragrance of sandal, 

ਰਸੁ ਘੋੜੇ ਰਸੁ ਸੇਜਾ ਮੰਦਰ ਰਸੁ ਮੀਠਾ ਰਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ॥ 
pleasure of horses, pleasure of common cushion to satisfy lust and a palace, pleasure of sweets and pleasure of meats, 

ਏਤੇ ਰਸ ਸਰੀਰ ਕੇ ਕੈ ਘਟਿ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥੨॥ ( SGGS15)
So many are the relishes of the human body. How can then God's Name secure an abode within the heart?

G Singh


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## Archived_Member5 (Oct 12, 2008)

*re: Naam Simram and Failure*

The beauty and serendipity of prayer is an investment yielding as much bliss as the devoted inputted. Some speak mool mantra’s monotonously, without emotion, as a matter of course. Prayer is likened to s sangeet, a calling to the supernal Spirit above and within. It is a conversation, and as with social interactions, applied measure of consideration, empathy, sensitivity is reciprocated in return.

If we were to meet a relative, and we mumbled hurriedly..’’Kidda, teek, tark, chal acha, ussi challe ..’’ The other person would feel a little affronted or belittled. Yet is we meet the same acquaintance, and our face beams into a smile, and we say ‘’Kidda ji, kitte rende oh, zindagi da safar kaise guzar rahe hai, baal bache sab ache kaase..’’ asking of their health with deep regard and love we will invoke not only a similar response when given with sincerity, but be known as a warm and honest outgoing individual.

Prayer should be spoken similarly, with inflection upon words voicing what is in your heart you seek to convey to the Lord. The Lord is won with deep devotion and genuine admiration. The JapJi Sahib especially is a powerful moving ode to the Waheguru Ji and should be spoken as such. Prayer is extremely powerful and its potency underestimated when from the heart and with profound meaning and purpose.


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## sarbjitpunjabi (Oct 12, 2008)

*re: Naam Simram and Failure*

sat siri akal , pk 70. 

i think as under and i quote :-

*satsangat aisi janiyain , jithe iko naam vakhanyain .*

for  better picture , go for gurubani version  . for me there has to be a living satguru `s guidance and company because as you all know well :-

_*visar gayee sabh tat paryaee , jab te sadhsangat mohe paayee .*_

now , who you think this sadh could be ? where he could be ? 

for me as gurubani is valid through all ages and not only in the period till satguru gobind singh ji  -( as akali school of thought says about satguru concept ) ,  He has to be in this age too . where and how you meet him depends upon your karamas . gurubani says :-

_*gur ki sakhi amrit bani , peevat hi parvan bhaya *_
_*dar darshan ka preetam hovai , mukat baikunthai karai kya .*_
*for me , anysikh ,  who endeavers for sahijavastha through naamsimran should , first off all ,think  where this dar darshan ka preetam could be ?*
*sat siri akal .*
*sarbjit singh*


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## pk70 (Oct 12, 2008)

*re: Naam Simram and Failure*



sarbjitpunjabi said:


> sat siri akal , pk 70.
> 
> sat siri akal , pk 70.
> 
> ...


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## sarbjitpunjabi (Oct 13, 2008)

*re: Naam Simram and Failure*

pk70 ,
ssakal .
regarding , the gurubani correction , a stand corrected because thats why i use english fonts - both for lipi and gurubani version .
you wished me good luck , i am already a lucky one as they say well beginning is half done .
dar darshan ka preetam , as you say , gurubani already shows the way . which as you say , sould be left on the one who wants to search .
as for as , duality is concerned - there is none . i am not searching spirits , gurubani already stated their existance - how peope deals with them is between them and thier guru . who did it ? how one did it ? if you really are seeker of the truth then spread your horizons - through gurubani offcourse and it will not be long before when the sahajta or understanding of HIM will come out of yourself .
please , bear in mind that atom as a whole is neutral even if it contains electrons and protons of different nature including neutrons .second law of action states same phenomenona equal and opposite forces maintain the balance  .  
regarding the journey , thats already on . there is nothing to feel any misunderstanding about this on my front and the speed and outcome will be decided by Him.
REST , EVERY ONE CAME  AND WILL GO ALONE ... LET HIS GURU LEAD .DECIDE , GUIDE OR MONITOR ONE`S JOURNEY AND FILL HIM WITH CONTENTMENT .
sarbjit singh


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## pk70 (Oct 13, 2008)

*re: Naam Simram and Failure*

if you really are seeker of the truth then spread your horizons - through gurubani offcourse and it will not be long before when the sahajta or understanding of HIM will come out of yourself .( quote Sarbjitpunjabi ji)


*Sarbjit Singh ji*

*We all can claim to be true seekers, it is known to Lord if we are true  ones or some other strings are still attached to this claim. I am at initial stage to understand Gurbani and battling with the mind to follow it. You are ahead of me, I congratulate you on that, at least there are lucky individuals on SPN who have obtained something count on in spiritual journey.*
please , bear in mind that atom as a whole is neutral even if it contains electrons and protons of different nature including neutrons .second law of action states same phenomenona equal and opposite forces maintain the balance .
    We are all claim to be true seekers, it is known to Lord if it is true or some other strings are still attached. I am at initial stage to understand Gurbani and battle with the mind to follow it. You are ahead of me, I congratulation you, at least there are lucky individuals on SPN who have some obtained in spiritual journey
regarding the journey , thats already on . there is nothing to feel any misunderstanding about this on my front and the speed and outcome will be decided by Him.
*Exactly; however for  some others like me, it can still be beyond comprehension as others have not progressed as you have. Forgive me for my being naive and not understanding the depth of your journey.*
REST , EVERY ONE CAME AND WILL GO ALONE ... LET HIS Guru LEAD .DECIDE , GUIDE OR MONITOR ONE`S JOURNEY AND FILL HIM WITH CONTENTMENT .
  sarbjit singh
*Thanks Sarbjit Singh ji for sharing your good views*


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## eropa234 (Oct 14, 2008)

*re: Naam Simram and Failure*

Wow a lot of quotes. Pad Pad Pothi Jug Mua Pandit Bhyo na Koi


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## spnadmin (Oct 14, 2008)

*re: Naam Simram and Failure*

pothhee paramaesar kaa thhaan


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## sarbjitpunjabi (Oct 14, 2008)

*re: Naam Simram and Failure*

_*eropa 234 ji *_
_*sat siri akal .*_
_*you gotta start somewhere , o k ?*_
_*and when you start reading gurubani , a stage comes when you find useless to even comment on anything at all . *_
_*again i request you to listen to some recitation of Anand sahib by a good paathi or bhai jarnailsingh of damdami taksal and see if  and when just listening to it will give you more rasa  then you will ever be able to  define .*_
_*i am not expert in computer to copy paste exact salokas to stress my point of the messsage it underlines , but ,  others can do it - when salokas tells you of dualty of the role of akalpurkh in its omnipresence , omnipotent and omniscient nature .*_
_*some time listening of the gurubani clarifies more concepts than reading of it - it all depends upon your state of mind that how it creates vairaaga in you . depending upon one`s experience , it is not too dificult to perceive that HE IS EVERYWHRE ON EACH AND EVERY SIDE , WE ARE ALL HIS PUPPETS ALL DANCE TO HIS TUNES , WHEREVER HE TAKES US TO .*_
_*THAT`S LIFE MY FRIEND REST ALL IS A CHARADE .*_
SSAKAL .
SARBJIT SINGH


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## eropa234 (Oct 14, 2008)

*re: Naam Simram and Failure*

Thanks Sarbjit Ji,

If hes everywhere and he takes us wherever he wants to than why wory about every thing. I am only refering to a quote from the great Kabir to whom I admire a great deal.


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## spnadmin (Oct 14, 2008)

*re: Naam Simram and Failure*



eropa234 said:


> Thanks Sarbjit Ji,
> 
> If hes everywhere and he takes us wherever he wants to than why wory about every thing. I am only refering to a quote from the great Kabir to whom I admire a great deal.



eropa234 ji

If you have time, would you give us the Ang # in Sri Guru Granth Sahib for the line from Kabir?  I would like to check on the Gurmukhi for this. Thank you so much.


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## spnadmin (Oct 14, 2008)

*re: Naam Simram and Failure*



sarbjitpunjabi said:


> _*eropa 234 ji *_
> _*sat siri akal .*_
> _*you gotta start somewhere , o k ?*_
> _*and when you start reading gurubani , a stage comes when you find useless to even comment on anything at all . *_
> ...



sarbjitpunjabi ji,

I am sympathetic to your opinion about state of mind and the ability of gurbani to create vairaaga. However, this conversation is in the Gurmat Vichaar part of the forum. In the Gurmat Vichaar forum, it is both expected and customary to quote from Sri Guru Granth Sahib. This is because Gurmat Vichaar, _understanding the wisdom of the Guru ,_ is all about vichaar of Sri Guru Granth Sahib. The living Guru. So there is a lot of benefit when forum members link their vichaar to quotes from the ShabadGuru.


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## pk70 (Oct 14, 2008)

*re: Naam Simram and Failure*

Wow a lot of quotes. Pad Pad Pothi Jug Mua Pandit Bhyo na Koi(quote234 ji)
*
Eropa234 ji*

*Let me just clarify the reason of quotes given in the article and in the comments that followed it,  Contrary to what your comment states  no body has tried to be Pundit by giving quotes. So why it came from you, only your heart carries the secret.*

*All quotes are given as a support from Gurbani to support the idea being discussed,  it is not done to become “pundits” or put show off to be one, as your sad comprehension is expressed in your “ self created quote” like comment. *
*All quotes are from Sree Guru Granth Sahib ji, because we, Sikhs, value Gurbani highly,  as aad Ji has stated with a reference to Guru vaak,, we consider only through Gurbani we can know the Lord, by reading Gurbani, and sharing quotes from Gurbani is to develop understanding of the path to HIM. However, that doesn’t mean we are trying to become “Pundit” *
*What is your intention by just looking at these Gurbani quotes; it is solely your problem. *

’ I am only refering to a quote from the great Kabir to whom I admire a great deal.( quote eropa234)’
*This Sloka of yours obviously appears to be of some ones else because it doesn’t exist in Sree Guru Granth Sahib JI *

*I cannot resist giving another Gurbani quote here, it may not be liked by you, so it be; however, it has a capability of breaking the self built wall if understood well.*
*ਐਬ ਤਨਿ ਚਿਕੜੋ ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਮੀਡਕੋ ਕਮਲ ਕੀ ਸਾਰ ਨਹੀ ਮੂਲਿ ਪਾਈ ॥ਭਉਰੁ ਉਸਤਾਦੁ ਨਿਤ
* *ਐਬ ਤਨਿ ਚਿਕੜੋ ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਮੀਡਕੋ ਕਮਲ ਕੀ ਸਾਰ ਨਹੀ ਮੂਲਿ ਪਾਈ **॥ **ਭਉਰੁ ਉਸਤਾਦੁ ਨਿਤ ਭਾਖਿਆ ਬੋਲੇ ਕਿਉ ਬੂਝੈ ਜਾ ਨਹ ਬੁਝਾਈ **॥**੨*॥ 
  Aib= sin/vices , tan= in the body, meedko= frog, saar= value, bhauor ustaad== bumble bee ( hint towards Guru Shabad), bhakhyaa bole= repeats singing( sermons), kio bujhai= why to understand, na bujhaee= if Lord doesn’t make him to understand
*“Mind being in the dirt of vices doesn’t understand the presence of the Lord within like a frog that doesn’t know the value of the lotus flower nearby him, Though bumble bee sings close to the frog on Lotus flower but he remains indifferent to that, same way, Guru recites the sermons in praise of the Lord, frog like mind, doesn’t understand  it. How can it? If Lord doesn’t make it to understand?*


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## Astroboy (Oct 15, 2008)

*re: Naam Simram and Failure*

YouTube - Jeevna Safal (Part 1 of 2) -Bhai Dalbir Singh Ji Hazuri Ragi


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## Astroboy (Oct 15, 2008)

*re: Naam Simram and Failure*

YouTube - Bhai Gurmail Singh - Tera Naam Vakhar Vaapar


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## pk70 (Oct 16, 2008)

*re: Naam Simram and Failure*



namjap said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2yKEpVeq9c&feature=related




*Beautiful, I enjoyed both Shabadas. Thanks Namjap ji for posting them*


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## pk70 (Oct 17, 2008)

*re: Naam Simram and Failure*



jeetijohal said:


> The beauty and serendipity of prayer is an investment yielding as much bliss as the devoted inputted. Some speak mool mantra’s monotonously, without emotion, as a matter of course. Prayer is likened to s sangeet, a calling to the supernal Spirit above and within. It is a conversation, and as with social interactions, applied measure of consideration, empathy, sensitivity is reciprocated in return.
> 
> If we were to meet a relative, and we mumbled hurriedly..’’Kidda, teek, tark, chal acha, ussi challe ..’’ The other person would feel a little affronted or belittled. Yet is we meet the same acquaintance, and our face beams into a smile, and we say ‘’Kidda ji, kitte rende oh, zindagi da safar kaise guzar rahe hai, baal bache sab ache kaase..’’ asking of their health with deep regard and love we will invoke not only a similar response when given with sincerity, but be known as a warm and honest outgoing individual.
> 
> Prayer should be spoken similarly, with inflection upon words voicing what is in your heart you seek to convey to the Lord. The Lord is won with deep devotion and genuine admiration. The JapJi Sahib especially is a powerful moving ode to the Waheguru Ji and should be spoken as such. Prayer is extremely powerful and its potency underestimated when from the heart and with profound meaning and purpose.



*I agree, you have expressed beautiful views on prayer.  If prayer caries greed and selfishness, it cannot be sincere, here is Guru’s support  and verification about what  you  and I say in context of prayer, [/FONT]*
*ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ॥ 
[/FONT]Saṯ sanṯokẖ hovai arḏās. 
[/FONT]If a prayer is offered with truth and contentment, 

[/FONT]ਤਾ ਸੁਣਿ ਸਦਿ ਬਹਾਲੇ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੧॥  (M-1 SGGS 878)
[/FONT]Ŧā suṇ saḏ bahāle pās. ||1|| 
[/FONT]the Lord will hear it, and call him in to sit by Him. ||1||

[/FONT]ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥ 
[/FONT]Nānak birthā ko▫e na ho▫e. 
[/FONT]O Nanak, no one returns empty-handed; 

[/FONT]ਐਸੀ ਦਰਗਹ ਸਾਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
[/FONT]Aisī ḏargėh sācẖā so▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o. 
[/FONT]such is the Court of the True Lord. ||1||Pause||**

 [/FONT]*


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## KulwantK (Oct 18, 2008)

*Re: Naam Simram and Failure*

Sat Nam, everyone-
There are two things that come to mind, when thinking about the Nam Simran.
One nice thing one can do is to keep talking to God and Guru-of course, you may have to do this under your breath, from time to time, or others might wonder about your sanity- but if you keep a conversation going with God, so to speak, acting as if He is Right There Beside you (which He is, anyway) and knowing that He knows your every single thought, what you will find is that you will start to more and more easily discipline yourself to A) do the Nam Simran and B) always doing the Right Thing at the Right Time- you will be more and more guided to God and Guru, and it need not be a painful process!
The other thing I am reminded of is that we should strive to see God's Work and Play in everything- even in what we might call the "bad things"- wars, famines, economic meltdowns, and whatever- God is at work and play in everything that goes on, and we really need not fear anything as long as we keep Him in our minds and hearts.  Even if you should suffer setbacks, or failures or whatever, you will not be devastated by them- you will actually be alright, because God is always with you, and eventually you will succeed!
Wahe Guru
Kulwant


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## mahanbir singh (Oct 25, 2008)

pk ji ssakal,

I admire the way u write, your artical on Naam Simran a failure is extremely important & revealing.Tell me what is the truth.what should a person do who is taught all his life to do Naam Simran.

ieh swfy glq iKAwl hn ik jy AsI Kws qrIky nwl rb dI pUjw krWgy qW Eh swnUM ipAwr kry gw vrnw nhIM[ rb nUM swfI worship nhi chaheedi usnoo sadi friendship chaeedi hai. God loves us  unconditionally. he is not an angry god, or a judgemental God. when He is prevading in all of us & experincing thru us whom shall He judge & whom shall He throw in hell.we have huge misunderstandings & misgivings about God.All religions are saying different things no body knows the real answer.we are wasting our life.The most important thing is to understand who we are?jf .we are part of Him.mMn qUM joiq srUp hYN [jy swirAW ivc vwihgurU Awp hI vrq irhw hY qW aus nUM iksy koloN kI cwhIdw hY? srb BUq Awp vrqwrw srb nYn Awp pyKnhwrw[
prmwqmW nUM swfI dosqI cwhIdI hY swfw ipAwr cwhIdw hY swfw ismrn nhIN.pIky jI gurU ikrpw kry quhwnUM  vwihgurU Awpxw Awp jxw dyvy [mhWbIr isMG


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## Archived_Member5 (Oct 25, 2008)

Life is a game of chess. Upon the board are mortals of many rank and file, all assigned a life’s purpose between the birth and death, beginning and end. Mans task is release his soul from the burden of ignorance, sins, paap, hate and fear holding him captive within his own mind. Upon discarding these hindrances to freedom he is liberated spiritually, emotionally and intellectually. It is whilst his focus remains upon other matters than his end goal or main objective, he wavers in confusion, distracted by earthly trivialities and temporal pursuits. 

Man tikaana, stilling the mind, focussing upon peace and stability, understanding family issues and why they are raised maintain calm and equipoise in times of conflict. Remaining true to the goal of spiritual detachment whilst honouring one’s life and household responsibilities is a life spent in excellence and success.


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## pk70 (Oct 25, 2008)

mahanbir singh said:


> pk ji ssakal,
> 
> I admire the way u write, your artical on Naam Simran a failure is extremely important & revealing.Tell me what is the truth.what should a person do who is taught all his life to do Naam Simran.
> 
> ...



* Sat Sree Akaal Mahabir Singh ji*
*Many thanks for your kind words.*
*To respond to your views (which sound like a question too), I must admit that I never think (thought either) what the Lord wants from us because if my thinking were enough, I would have reached there where still I long to go. Literally, it is the Guru who has advised me that the Lord wants us to live in His love, to be in His simran. Guru asks his followers*
*ਜੋ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਧਿਆਏ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੋ* *ਗੁਰਸਿਖ**ੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ **॥**(SGGS305)
**Jo sās girās **ḏẖ**i▫ā▫e merā har har so gursik**ẖ** gurū man b**ẖ**āvai.
**One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.

*
*Again, Guru stresses on “Simran”*
*ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਾ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਊਚਾ **॥ 
**Parabẖ kā simran sabẖ ṯe ūcẖā. 
** ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੈ ਸਿਮਰਨਿ ਉਧਰੇ ਮੂਚਾ **॥ **Lord's meditation is the most exalted of all. 

**Parabẖ kai simran uḏẖre mūcẖā. 
**Through Master's meditation many have been saved.(SGGS263)*

* Unlike you, I do not want to assume at my own, just am trying to follow what Guru ji asks to do to be worthy of HIM. Guru though says He manifests in us but still Simran is very important as per Guru Advice, even being aware of his being within us ( as you stated in Punjabi), changes the land scrape, Simran helps to be aware of His being within. I wonder why you have taken “Simran” into very limited meaning!*
* Now let’s take on what you have thought about Lord’s wish. As per your statement, He wants our friendship. Well, He is “nirvair”, regardless our behavior towards Him ( Mool Mantra-Japji). After having said that, let’s analyze “our friendship” towards Him. What is friendship?” A relation based on sincerity, love and readiness to sacrifice. If any element out of these misses, friendship remains highly fragile. We remember our friend, we believe in him/her. We think about him/her, it all comes down to” be in love and be aware about the friend.” So does the simran. Guru says *

*ਹਮ ਮੈਲੇ ਤੁਮ ਊਜਲ ਕਰਤੇ ਹਮ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਤੂ ਦਾਤਾ **॥ 
**Ham maile ṯum ūjal karṯe ham nirgun ṯū ḏāṯā. 
**We are soiled, Thou O Creator art Immaculate, we are virtueless and thou art our Donor.*( *means we are not as pure as you are oh Lord, we don’t have those virtues you have)*
* it is a statement one can make only after dismantling” ME/I- force  or claims”  Guru also, while guiding us towards Him, asks us to  mind” Lord’s fear” in our hearts; why? AkaalPurkh loves all, we are supposed to love Him too, then why to fear from Him? Answer is very interesting, it deals with” I/Me force” if it becomes fearless then it does what it wants or thinks. Guru ji says” abandon it” Discredit it, it creates only hindrances in our love for Him. We obey law, underlining instinct is fear, it also deals with “I” means “I” cannot do always what it wants, there is a Law of the land, in the same way, Law of Lord needs to be feared of. So,Simran puts” I” in back seat and Lord remains priority. Simran leads to that state of mind,*
*“ Mannyai, Mann rakhyai bhao” is not that simple statement, it is like  flying without weight of “ME”, usually, I/ME’ becomes heavy, flying becomes impossible.  So, as per Guru, His Simran is not limited to reciting or singing but to transform the soul to be in Harmony in His Ordinance.*
*Thanks !*


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## Sikh80 (Oct 25, 2008)

*vwhu vwhu AMimRq nwmu hY gurmuiK pwvY koie ] (515-19,)*
  vwhu vwhu AMimRq nwmu hY gurmuiK pwvY koie ] (515-19, gUjrI kI vwr, mÚ 3)
  Waaho! Waaho! is the Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, obtained by the Gurmukh.
______________________________________________

I also came across a line that I am sharing with you. Like pk70 ji had done his research and came across one line, this line has been of tremendous value to me.After I came across this line many riddles unfolded themselves.

It is true that we should carry on our Simran but it is equally important that we keep on reading Dhan Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj ji. Many questions get answered automatically with passage of time.

All the Luck to all.
[/FONT]


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## sarbjitpunjabi (Oct 25, 2008)

*Sadhsangat ji , *
*sat siri akal .*
*Actually, all these spiritual recepies meant to bring you to state of mind to a point when you start understanding His game ,' tamasaha'. Even after that you will never be able to decide exactly where His will or human will starts or end ? Gurubani`message *
*is to try to describe the infinite , omnipresent , omniscient , omnipotent  - through the feelings of the saints . What i have seen is that that gurubani is being discussed for the discussion as a convention on every forum like any other academic issue . For me , being religious does not mean being spiritual which is attained through one`s private journey . The goal is to gain spirituality, how you do that can only depend upon your relation with Him . it may be through Gurbani as guru , or as it was said 70 jamme bhagat jan 14 satgur rai concept . one school of thought should not portray its approach as superior than others  because , its for Him to decide in DARGAH . you know what ? we are not told that spirituality is not sole property of  any school of thought , depending upon anyone`s AMAL , one can be near to Him or not . I am not a thorough paathi , only a listener of some kirtan. Just simply start  reading or listening to gurubani will produce rasa or vairaga , then journey will start itself to feel what guru Teg Bahadur is trying to say in Salok mahalla 9th , guru Amar Das (?)in Anand sahib?*
*Please , perform the prayer in your own way , you will stop questioning others opinions or ways of worship , because He is omniscient and without losing any time further, please try to imbibe the message practically which can easily become clear that OUR GURUS TALKED OF GOOD PRACTICES NOT OF CRITICISM .*
* May, Satguru bless everyone!*
*Sarbjit Singh*
*toronto*


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## Archived_Member5 (Oct 26, 2008)

I have studied many religions and they all convey a similar underlying peace of mans need to shed sin nature, hate and by gaining understanding release his soul from worldly attachments retaining him in fear of what lies beyond the bounds of his imagination and the universal realm, or Swarg. I am immensely proud to be a Sikh although unorthodox. The Sikh community are disinclined from seeking to convert other religious followers to their faith to boost numbers, and find being masters in their own homes and Lords of the extended communities a quest befitting to those of requisite authority and wisdom.

I am very proud of this fact. I have great respect for good Christians and Islamic, many being as devout to the cause of spiritual salvation as Sikhs. Religion is no longer s spiritual Path to Gods threshold but a temple of God overrun by power mongers and sinners. These seek to break the power and standing of other good respectable faiths, in conversion to gain power to the bandwagon they ride upon in luxury. There is no love for God or his creation involved. Sikhs are gaining an understanding of other faiths, and if lost souls find their comfort in our temples or beliefs they are welcomed reliant heavily upon their following scriptural guidelines, the scriptural mores and disciplines of the Adi Granth are infinitely perfect and timelessly sound. Spiritual substance, ancient morality and familial pride negates the need to slander or berate other faiths to enhance Sikhism, or seek to convert other to boost our numbers, numbers that were circa 1984 struck down and massacred. Sikhs stand strong and this is the beauty of a faith that has suffered a serious of blows without losing heart and spiritual strength.

Gain understanding of all faiths and belief systems, remain loyal to one’s own. Waffa se manzil payenge.  The smallest religion stands strong because it places great values upon each member. If the mettle and calibre of each individual deteriorates then groups seek comfort in numbers, a mass throng, a rabble as a route to power.  Mortals individually strong in faith and spiritual power tend not to seek to conquer the minds or world of others. That is its beauty.

Peace Love and Blessings ...


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## eropa234 (Oct 26, 2008)

*Re: Naam Simram and Failure*

Pad pad poti Jag Mua, Pandit Bhyo na Koi,

Dhai ashsar prem ke, padhay so Pandit Hoi,

This particular verse is not part of Sri Guru ganth Sahib" is a part of Beejak, a collections of Kabir Ji's writings.
It is a relevent doha to many who reads scriptures over and over again without puting any effort to comprhend it. A similar verse by Kabir Ji in Sri Guru Granth Sahib is " Kabir keechar aata gir pario, Kitchu na ayo hath. Peesat peesat Chabio soee nibhio sath.


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## eropa234 (Oct 26, 2008)

*Re: Naam Simram and Failure*

Dear PK70 ji, I did not mean any disrespect to anyone. You posted a Gur ka Sabad- a word of knowledge, indeed it is a world of knowledge. One should see the same knowledge in all other quotes.

If the frog mind rights down everything the Bee sings and recites it at certain time of the day or at any time and all the time, I really do not believe he will ever realize the value of the lotus. Despite of his recitations he will die looking for value in the pond, then the lotus is no good to him, all his recitations will not protect him from dirt.

If the Frog was a good Student (Sikh) he only needs a few words from the Bee to see the lotus and its benifits but accoding to Kabir Ji even two and a half letters in the word "Prem" are enough for a dedicated student. The word prem contains the same knowledge contained in the quote above.


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## spnadmin (Oct 26, 2008)

*Re: Naam Simram and Failure*



eropa234 said:


> Pad pad poti Jag Mua, Pandit Bhyo na Koi,
> 
> Dhai ashsar prem ke, padhay so Pandit Hoi,
> 
> ...



eropa234 ji

Thank you for confirming that the verse is not part of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj.


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## Sikh80 (Oct 26, 2008)

Repetition is the essence of this life. Eating, breathing, sleeping and doing daily jobs are all repetitions. Simran and reading are are also the same.
But it is so for Gurus who have seen some advantages for us. 

Much damage has been done to Sikhi by the advocators that we should not repeat the reading of Granth sahib or what would we attain if we do five banis on daily basis. [Maskeen ji]

I think repetition has helped me a lot in understanding what is bani.
Had it for one or two readings I should not have made sense from bani.It is good to repeat the things till these are ingrained in us/our grey matter and doing path becomes enjoyable.

But we all have our preferences.No one should feel to stick to this opinion.We are all free and intelligent creatures.
WjkK WjkF

ismrq sws igrws pUrn ibsuAws ikau mnhu ibswrIAY jIau ] (80-14, isrIrwgu, mÚ 5)
  I remember Him in meditation with every breath and morsel of food, with perfect faith. How could I forget Him from my mind?

ieku iqlu nhI ivsrY pRwn AwDwrw jip jip nwnk jIvqy ]3] (81-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 5)
  They do not forget, even for an instant, the Support of the breath of life. They live by constantly meditating on Him, O Nanak. ||3||

  so hir sdw iDAweIAY iqsu ibnu Avru n koie ] (81-17, isrIrwgu, mÚ 4)
  Meditate forever on that Lord. Without Him, there is no other at all.
hir kIrqnu gwvhu idnu rwqI sPl eyhw hY kwrI jIau ]3] (108-1, mwJ, mÚ 5)
  So sing the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises, day and night. This is the most fruitful occupation. ||3||[/FONT]
E&OE


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## Astroboy (Oct 26, 2008)

> I think repetition has helped me a lot in understanding what is bani.
> Had it for one or two readings I should not have made sense from bani.It is good to repeat the things till these are ingrained in us/our grey matter and doing path becomes enjoyable.



Sikh80 Ji,

A doctor cannot heal his patients. The doctor merely dresses the wound, but God heals it. A psychiatrist helps in removing the mental blocks in his patients, so that the healing principle may be released, restoring the patients' health.


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## eropa234 (Oct 28, 2008)

Devine will never come, even if you offer all the treasures of the world


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## pk70 (Oct 31, 2008)

*Re: Naam Simram and Failure*



eropa234 said:


> Dear PK70 ji, I did not mean any disrespect to anyone. You posted a Gur ka Sabad- a word of knowledge, indeed it is a world of knowledge. One should see the same knowledge in all other quotes.
> 
> * First of all,  with all due respect eropa234 jio, please do not think that your comments were insulting. Also let’s not play games in the name self defense. My concern was, after going through an article which addressed some of the hindrances coming in away of successful simran, you could only comment”* *Wow a lot of quotes. Pad Pad Pothi Jug Mua Pandit Bhyo na Koi(quote eropa234 Ji)** Sloka you quoted, if it is by Kabir ji( for me, only Kabir ji’s bani in SGGS ji is Gurbani, the rest, as a Sikh, I am not sure if it is by Kabir ji’s hundred percent), why it is quoted? It doesn’t say a word about “prem” as you talk about in other post. What does it say here? It is referring only to a lot of quotes period. Who was reading and trying to be pundits? None. Quotes were used there to clarify the idea through Gurbani. So please move on, there is no need of new excuses or claims*
> One should see the same knowledge in all other quotes. If the frog mind rights down everything the Bee sings and recites it at certain time of the day or at any time and all the time, I really do not believe he will ever realize the value of the lotus. Despite of his recitations he will die looking for value in the pond, then the lotus is no good to him, all his recitations will not protect him from dirt.(quote eropa234 Ji)
> ...


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## Sikh80 (Oct 31, 2008)

namjap said:


> Sikh80 Ji,
> 
> A doctor cannot heal his patients. The doctor merely dresses the wound, but God heals it. A psychiatrist helps in removing the mental blocks in his patients, so that the healing principle may be released, restoring the patients' health.




Hum!!! Do you suggest that Doctor is not acting at the behest and inspiration of GOD? 
Incidentally, the topic of discussion is Naam Simran and failure. Let us carry on with the same 'Waheguru...;......


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