# Listening To Instead Of Reciting Bani?



## Harkiran Kaur (Oct 21, 2012)

Sat Sri Akal Ji,

I have the daily prayers in audio format (Giani Thakur Singh Ji's recording of Japji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Tav Parsad Savaiye, Chaupai Sahib, Anand Sahib, Rehras Sahib, and Kirtan Sohila.)  I also have the iPhone app called iNitnem E (English) and it has the trasliteration and translations for them so I can follow along as I listen.   

Since I am not fluent in Punjabi is it ok to listen to these as recordings instead of reciting them?  

What about if I chose to do Amrit?  I know in the Rehet it says that all Sikhs should be fluent in Punjabi, and reading Gurmukhi, but even trying to learn I know that I am not good with languages.... at all!  I took French all through school years and learned a vocabulary of about maybe 50 words and can only say very basic phrases (like ask for directions etc).  Can I still do Amrit if I am not fluent in Punjabi, and I can I use recordings and translations to follow along, instead of reciting them on my own?  Or does my ability to do Amrit depend on me having to fluently learn Punjabi??


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## Navdeep88 (Oct 21, 2012)

*Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??*

Akasha Ji, I think Amrit is such a big Commitment that one shouldn't rush into it for any reason. I don't think God/Guru would judge you for holding off & really preparing & prepping yourself w/ the adequate Life-style/knowledge before stepping into this commitment. B/c Once it's made, its made, there's no going back. There's no, 'Oh i wish I knew how to do this better or that,' One should sufficiently prepare themselves beforehand. You don't forget a ring to a wedding (well, a western one), or forget to tell your partner you love them, for not Knowing the language, you prep yourself before-hand for the Commitment you are about to make. The better the preparation, the smoother the sailing afterwards (presumably). But yea, in terms of not knowing the Gurbani in its original form, at least the Daily Prayers, I think it's a No-go for the Amrit life-style. However, I think for the stage you're at (& as am I... the sort of beginning 'learners' etc.) I think it's adequate to just listen as well as you can & try to grasp the pronunciation & couple them w/ the Translations. The effort is what matters. 

**My opinions only, please do not take offense** thank you


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## Harkiran Kaur (Oct 21, 2012)

*Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??*

So basically you are saying that if I can not grasp the language (being bad at learning languages...) then I should never be able to do Amrit?  I know that Amrit is a huge commitment, and I am taking steps to live by it now, before I ever do.  But you are saying that if I am just not wired to learn to speak fluent Punjabi, then I can never do Amrit?  That is disappointing...  as I will always feel only part way to where I want to be and was hoping to do Amrit in a couple of years from now.  Some people are just not wired to learn certain things... I am good with science and math, but not languages.    As for the lifestyle, I am already living most of it now.  





Navdeep88 said:


> Akasha Ji, I think Amrit is such a big Commitment that one shouldn't rush into it for any reason. I don't think God/Guru would judge you for holding off & really preparing & prepping yourself w/ the adequate Life-style/knowledge before stepping into this commitment. B/c Once it's made, its made, there's no going back. There's no, 'Oh i wish I knew how to do this better or that,' One should sufficiently prepare themselves beforehand. You don't forget a ring to a wedding (well, a western one), or forget to tell your partner you love them, for not Knowing the language, you prep yourself before-hand for the Commitment you are about to make. The better the preparation, the smoother the sailing afterwards (presumably). But yea, in terms of not knowing the Gurbani in its original form, at least the Daily Prayers, I think it's a No-go for the Amrit life-style. However, I think for the stage you're at (& as am I... the sort of beginning 'learners' etc.) I think it's adequate to just listen as well as you can & try to grasp the pronunciation & couple them w/ the Translations. The effort is what matters.
> 
> **My opinions only, please do not take offense** thank you


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## Navdeep88 (Oct 21, 2012)

*Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??*



Akasha said:


> So basically you are saying that if I can not grasp the language (being bad at learning languages...) then I should never be able to do Amrit?  I know that Amrit is a huge commitment, and I am taking steps to live by it now, before I ever do.  But you are saying that if I am just not wired to learn to speak fluent Punjabi, then I can never do Amrit?  That is disappointing...  as I will always feel only part way to where I want to be and was hoping to do Amrit in a couple of years from now.  Some people are just not wired to learn certain things... I am good with science and math, but not languages.    As for the lifestyle, I am already living most of it now.



You said you were not "wired" to learn languages etc. I believe in no such thing. I went by the info you gave & basically said that one should have the proper knowledge to go about this commitment, one of which being to be able to Pronounce & recite Gurbani in its original form. As your commitment is years away, I believe that should be enough time to get it down pat. Best of luck, thank you.


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## Luckysingh (Oct 21, 2012)

*Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??*

Don't worry about this issue too much.
I mentioned something similar to this last week on a different thread ' rehat maryada and it's divisions'
What was similar was the fact that many elders that are illeterate and cannot read or write are told by the panj pyarey during amrit, that they should listen as well as doing waheguru jap.
The focus of the thread was that many rely so much on what the panj pyarey instruct you whilst ignoring other issues.

However with this in mind, you should be aware that elders of the age of 60 or 70 that have never been able to read are very less likely to learn know, so then they are not excluded from taking amrit.
With us being young and able to learn, it would be ignorant if we took the same approach without even trying.

Many don't feel personally obliged for amrit if they have language barriers, but that doesn't mean you cannot. 
It is NOT up to me or anyone to suggest if one is ready or not, that can only be determined by the sikh following the path, which is yourself.


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## Ishna (Oct 22, 2012)

*Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??*

What does the SRM say about it for amritdharis? I know it says listening is ok for a Sikh but not sure re Khalsa and not at a pc to check

I find the recordings by rajnarind kaur the best as she's made them explicitly for learning pronunciations so they are crystal clear.

But even if you hang your amrit sanchar on your ability to parrot the banis, isn't it more meaningful to know what it is you're actually saying? If you wait to know what it is you're actually saying you then have to understand it. It could make a very long time!

I read somewhere that amrit sanchar isn't the end, it's the beginning.

I say, go for it. If you can even keep up a daily schedule of listening to banis you're already ahead of lots of so called Khalsa.


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## Harry Haller (Oct 22, 2012)

*Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??*



> I have the daily prayers in audio format (Giani Thakur Singh Ji's  recording of Japji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Tav Parsad Savaiye, Chaupai Sahib,  Anand Sahib, Rehras Sahib, and Kirtan Sohila.)  I also have the iPhone  app called iNitnem E (English) and it has the trasliteration and  translations for them so I can follow along as I listen.



You are aleady showing more devotion and interest than many of the people whose opinion you seek



> Since I am not fluent in Punjabi is it ok to listen to these as recordings instead of reciting them?



I do not think anyone has the right to tell anyone else how best to communicate with Creator. 



> What about if I chose to do Amrit?  I know in the Rehet it says that all  Sikhs should be fluent in Punjabi, and reading Gurmukhi, but even  trying to learn I know that I am not good with languages.... at all!



I would not worry too much, the SRM also says you should not associate with those that dye their beards. Even if it takes another 10 years to slowly learn Gurmukhi, it would be a wonderful journey, feeling concepts change as you learn the original language, getting a few wow moments, I would not bother trying to learn, just keep your wits about you, and you will pick it up, an interest in something makes learning a lot quicker and easier. 



> Can I still do Amrit if I am not fluent in  Punjabi, and I can I use recordings and translations to follow along,  instead of reciting them on my own?  Or does my ability to do Amrit  depend on me having to fluently learn Punjabi??



Ask your heart, visualise Guruji, in all his compassion and love and empathy, rules are great as a guide, but the answers your heart give you rise above rules. If you understand, I think that would be enough, and being fluent in Punjabi is no guarantee of understanding.


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## chazSingh (Oct 22, 2012)

*Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??*



Akasha said:


> Sat Sri Akal Ji,
> 
> I have the daily prayers in audio format (Giani Thakur Singh Ji's recording of Japji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Tav Parsad Savaiye, Chaupai Sahib, Anand Sahib, Rehras Sahib, and Kirtan Sohila.) I also have the iPhone app called iNitnem E (English) and it has the trasliteration and translations for them so I can follow along as I listen.
> 
> ...


 
Satnaam Akasha Ji,

Do not worry about whether you can read punjabi or not...as guru ji says:

jo praanee govi(n)dh dhhiaavai ||
That mortal who meditates on the Lord of the Universe,

parriaa anaparriaa param gath paavai ||1||
whether educated or uneducated, obtains the state of supreme dignity. ||1|| 197

What else do you need to know? keep listening to gurbani, take time to do your simran and take your dyaan/focus inwards...all the gyan is already within you and it will slowly come to you as you go deeper towards guru ji.
do not waste another breathe, even if the only words you know are satnaam and waheguru, meditate on them...and your love for god/guru will take you forward...

Jin Prem Kio Tin Hee Prabh Paayo
whoever has loved has attained the Lord 

Concentrate on these shabads than worrying too much about whether you know enough punjabi.

My punjabi is only basic, i try to recite in punjabi as much as possible...but
none of us know how long our life is, so don't waste time worrying about these details.  Doing your amrit vela simran and having a deep love to realise god doesnt need any language whatsoever


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## Harkiran Kaur (Oct 22, 2012)

*Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??*



Navdeep88 said:


> You said you were not "wired" to learn languages etc. I believe in no such thing. I went by the info you gave & basically said that one should have the proper knowledge to go about this commitment, one of which being to be able to Pronounce & recite Gurbani in its original form. As your commitment is years away, I believe that should be enough time to get it down pat. Best of luck, thank you.



Unfortunately, as I said, I took French all through school years and really never learned anything.  A few words maybe and how to say hello, where is the washroom?  And French uses the same romanized alphabet.  With Punjabi, not only do I need to learn vocabulary, but also a whole new way of reading.  I doubt that in two years I will be fluent!  If I have to wait until I am fluent, I will never get to do Amrit.  

I am not saying that I will stop trying to learn it though.  But as Ishna says, I thought Amrit was the beginning of the journey, not the end.  So then if it's in my heart to really want to be Amritdhari, and I do everything that is asked of me (daily bani, keeping kesh, no intoxicants, veggie, 5 K's etc) then why can't I do Amrit, and listen to and read along with the original Gurbani, the transliteration into Punjabi, and also the English?  Rather than trying to memorize Punjabi vocabulary for the rest of my life, I think eventually I will learn more by reading the translations side by side.  I do that now at the Gurdwara on the screen.  

I can actually say the full Mool Mantra in Punjabi, and recognize it in Gurmukhi too... but only because I have seen it many times.  I am not actually 'reading' it.  I can also recognize 'Nanak' now because I recognize the character for n sound and k.  But even if I learn all the phonetic sounds to the point where I can sound out the words, I will still lack the Punjabi vocabulary to have a conversation or understand what I am reading.  That could take literally years and the rest of my life to try to learn, and if I used that as a gage for taking Amrit, then I will never do so.  

As for the commitment of doing Amrit, I have been studying Sikhism for over 10 years now and slowly adding more in practice bit by bit so that it has been easy. If I had tried to add everything all at once, it would have been difficult to do I think.  But I started with just Japji Sahib, and wearing a kara.  Then stopping cutting hairs.  I am now adding kachera, and trying to learn to tie a dastar.  Once I can do that well enough, I will start carrying the kanga too. This has been over months... and I am aiming for 1.5-2 years from now to do Amrit (thats when I am going on a trip to Amritsar and would like to do it at the Golden Temple if its possible). It's just the language barrier that worries me.


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## Harkiran Kaur (Oct 22, 2012)

*Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??*

Chaz Ji,



chazSingh said:


> Satnaam Akasha Ji,
> 
> Do not worry about whether you can read punjabi or not...as guru ji says:
> 
> ...


 
Very good point about none of us knowing how long our life will be.  I could put off doing Amrit, saying I will do it when I feel I can read and understand Punjabi, and then something could happen where Waheguru calls me home sooner, and I would have lost out.  Hence, this is why I think Amrit is the beginning and not the end.  It's a promise to Guru Ji to live in this way, and to learn (isn't that what 'Sikh' means anyway... learner?)  Life IS short, and I never really thought of that in this context but I think you hit the nail on the head.  And I think in my heart that Waheguru KNOWS none of us are perfect, as long as our hearts and minds are in the right place and we give it our best.


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## chazSingh (Oct 22, 2012)

*Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??*



Akasha said:


> Chaz Ji,
> 
> 
> 
> Very good point about none of us knowing how long our life will be. I could put off doing Amrit, saying I will do it when I feel I can read and understand Punjabi, and then something could happen where Waheguru calls me home sooner, and I would have lost out. Hence, this is why I think Amrit is the beginning and not the end. It's a promise to Guru Ji to live in this way, and to learn (isn't that what 'Sikh' means anyway... learner?) Life IS short, and I never really thought of that in this context but I think you hit the nail on the head. And I think in my heart that Waheguru KNOWS none of us are perfect, as long as our hearts and minds are in the right place and we give it our best.


 
We live in the illusion of time. The past is just memories....the future is just dreams, hopes and desires...but we are only conscious of the present...only the present moment exists....make it a good moment 

We have to learn to become good listeners...when you listen to your gurbani tapes...listen to them with full focus...single mindedness...to very single word and sound...learn to ignore our wavering mind. This 'listening' will train us to listen to the guru's shabad that is within us...by guru ji's grace we will all be blessed with that stage.

God bless.


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## linzer (Oct 22, 2012)

Hey,
I've got good news for you. The SRM says 
*g. *[FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial][FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial]Learning Gurmukhi (Punjabi in Gurmukhi script) is essential for a Sikh. He should pursue other studies also. [/FONT][FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial]- 12 - [/FONT]
[FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial][/FONT] 
[FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial]It doesn't say being fluent. Technically speaking right now your learning .[/FONT]

[FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial]From my point of view, People get to hung up on the "only in Punjabi can you understand" trying to make it a sacred language.Granted anything written is better understood in the original. However, the very reason Guru Nanak wrote in Punjabi, instead of Sanskrit ,was to make it accessible to everyone. [/FONT]
[FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial]I know this is out of context but it makes a nice closing.[/FONT]
[FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial]suixAY lwgY shij iDAwnu ] [/FONT][FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial]
suni-ai laagai sahj Dhi-aan.
Listening-intuitively grasp the essence of meditation.

[/FONT][/FONT]


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## hpannu (Oct 22, 2012)

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh ||

Akasha Ji -

When I was living back home in Punjab in 1984 I graduated from Convent High School. I was 15/16 year old and didn't study Punjabi at all. My Parents had taught me to do Japji Sahib and that was it. June 1984 affected us all very badly and my family decided to go for Amrit Sanchaar Ceremony. I was the youngest in family and jumped in the bandwagon too. Everyone laughed at me - hey, you don't know how to do Path / Nitnem how will you work it out ? I used to say I will do Vaheguru, Vaheguru Jaap. 
There are people who are illeterate or people like me or you who don't have command over the language ! So anyways to cut the long story short - I was a young boy without commitment ( which you have ). I went to college got busy and was unable to keep up with Nitnem part. I will do it here and there. Japji Sahib was easy to do. Jaap Sahib took me forever to get used to. Then i got married i came here to US. Back home there were too many distractions. Sikh freedom movement / family circumstances were changing / I was young and so many other excuses .... I kept on to my 5 Kakaars. I forgot to mention I was deeply hurt when i had to take off my Kirpan at the Airport on my first trip. 
But once here I tried to keep up with Nitnem here and there. But i was not regular. 
I got involved in Gurduara Sahib Managment / community affairs. 
Believe it or not started volunteering in Punjabi School. Even though i didn't study Punjabi as a first language but my Punjabi was still better than most of the people involved in Sunday School. I used to curse the system which didn't teach us our own language. That passion inside me motivated me the most. People asked me to teach there kids Punjabi and I couldn't refuse them. It reminded of my School days without learning our mother tongue. In the meantime I was blessed with 2 daughters. Now I was even more fired up to teach Punjabi / Gurmukhi. I ended up with lots of students. 
I also did my first Sehaj Path of Guru Granth Sahib on the 300 Aniversary or Guru Granth Sahib. It took me one full year. I also did Gurbani Santhiya with Giani Ji to help me with Sehaj path. Now I am also involved in Gurmat Sangeet. I am a student and organiser of 3 classes. We hired a professional teacher and have over 20 students.
I am telling you all this - because you are doing what other's are still far far away from ! If  you have that fire / passion inside you to succeed on this Marg then one day sooner or later you will achieve it.
I am no one to advise you - but i can tell you from personal experience. My brother first started with maintaining Rehat - meaning wearing all 5 Kakaars, doing Nitnem and following Rehat. After testing himself - then he decided to go ahead with Amrit Sanchaar.
I have also seen people who skip all this and fail badly ....
Now it's all up to you - you have already started listening to Bani and are attempting to learn and understand it. That's one step forward.
Keep it up !

Daas,
Harjot Singh


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## TigerStyleZ (Oct 22, 2012)

Make a progress, and learn - doesnt matter if you are fast or slow. The main point is you are not giving up!


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## Navdeep88 (Oct 22, 2012)

*Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??*



Akasha said:


> Unfortunately, as I said, I took French all through school years and really never learned anything.  A few words maybe and how to say hello, where is the washroom?  And French uses the same romanized alphabet.  With Punjabi, not only do I need to learn vocabulary, but also a whole new way of reading.  I doubt that in two years I will be fluent!  If I have to wait until I am fluent, I will never get to do Amrit.
> 
> I never said Fluency in the whole Language was important. There's a lot in Punjabiyat that is not in line w/ Sikhism. I think the basic pronunciation of the Basic DAILY PRAYERS is what you were referring to, & they are, what? Three hours in length? I think anyone of the Adult size can learn that in a matter of months if they really put their heart to it. (That is not to say you should skip translations, )
> 
> ...



Personally, I think the Prayers in their Original form hold a lot more merit than Translations. One of the reasons being that if everyone would read translations, then the Original form, would go eventually extinct. & that is kind of Sad, b/c that's not what they were written as, in English. It was written in Gurmukhi. 

Second, I think you misunderstood what I said, I was merely speaking about coupling the translations w/ the Prayers, not the entire Punjabi language.


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## Luckysingh (Oct 22, 2012)

There is nothing wrong with reading the english transliterations.
This way the whole spoken vocab is punjabi, even though you may be reading it in roman or english language.

*Akashji, you have no need to worry and you can read your nitnem with the transliterations.* However, I do suggest that to keep your pronounciations correct, that you read along the nitnem whilst listening to it on tape or cd until you get enough practice to be able to read without listening.
This way you build up more confidence in your speech  and pronouncing of punjabi language. After doing this repeatedly you can then start on your own reading the transliteration in english letters, but your speech shall all be coming across in the correct gurmukhi.

Infact, I do this quite often, because my reading of gurmukhi is quite slow. I find that if I'm looking for shabads to do for kirtan, then I scan through various ones in the transliterated versions as I feel more confident and at ease.

When one can read and pronounce the gurmukhi to near perfection even whilst reading from transliterated text, then to _anyone listening they would never be able to distinguish if you were reading from gurmukhi text or not._

This is providing you train yourself in the method I mentioned.
I have used the above method myself, as I only started learning to read gurmukhi after I had mastered the transliterations.
I never even saw the punjabi alphabet until I was much older, so you have better chances than most people.

I would NOT let your punjabi vocab and reading dictate when you may take amrit.
*I believe it is perfectly fine to read english text or transliterated versions to do your nitnem.*

With time it will come, but don't try and force it on yourself. You can proceed in this manner whilst trying to learn and grasp the gurmukhi word by word.
I know, it's not easy by any means even though I have the advantage of being able to speak fluent punjabi.

This weekend the 'Chardi Kala' jatha of MiriPiri academy were at the Gurdwara. You may be aware that these are american gora sikhs, and there were also many other gora sikhs present from the States. I came across a few that were amritdhari and they themselves were either learning or had learnt gurmukhi after managing so far on transliterations !!
This shows just how much value the text has, providing it is spoken correctly.
I wouldn't suggest it as an alternative, but to maximise your correct spoken word  by utilising it, is a must for all non-gurmukhi readers.
Then you can use it to increase your gurmukhi reading and later come to just using the gurmukhi on it's own.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 22, 2012)

From Gurbanee one gets to know as
ਪਉੜੀ ॥ ਕੋਈ ਗਾਵੈ ਕੋ ਸੁਣੈ ਕੋਈ ਕਰੈ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਕੋ ਉਪਦੇਸੈ ਕੋ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੈ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਹੋਇ ਉਧਾਰੁ ॥ ਕਿਲਬਿਖ ਕਾਟੈ ਹੋਇ ਨਿਰਮਲਾ ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਮਲੁ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਹਲਤਿ ਪਲਤਿ ਮੁਖੁ ਊਜਲਾ ਨਹ ਪੋਹੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਮਾਇ ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 300}
The clear message is Some may Sing ,Some may listen and Some may contemplate
Some may advice and some may strongly stand for gurbanee Also there is a message what is the ultimate objective which is given as
ਸੋ ਸੁਰਤਾ ਸੋ ਬੈਸਨੋ ਸੋ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਧਨਵੰਤੁ ॥ ਸੋ ਸੂਰਾ ਕੁਲਵੰਤੁ ਸੋਇ ਜਿਨਿ ਭਜਿਆ ਭਗਵੰਤੁ ॥ ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਸੂਦੁ ਬੈਸੁ ਉਧਰੈ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਚੰਡਾਲ ॥ ਜਿਨਿ ਜਾਨਿਓ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਪਨਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਰਵਾਲ ॥੧੭॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 300}
The ultimate objective is having known PRABHu......


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## Kaur 1968 (Oct 23, 2012)

Dear Sister Akasha ji, you are awesome! you are very exited to join the khalsa panth.   
you have so much love for God's who's language is only love. no one have right to stop you for doing that. You can take Amrit anytime when you will feel deep voice from your heart. Guru Gobind Singh ji is calling you to become Guru ji's daughter then who can stop you. There is nothing wrong listening to nitnem as long as you listening with devotion. When i had first time read your post about being amitdhari after 2 or 3 years, my heart filled with joy. i want to see my khalsa panth expanding. Go for it don't wait, you are ready now. Guru will guide you step by step, just surrender your self to guruji, do ardass with your every breath, beg for Guru ji Amrit. Keep moving, don't look back life is too short, enjoy the Guru ji company. Everything you will get it will happen after you will be amitdhari. When i took amrit i was 7 months pregnant, didn't tell anybody not even to my family members. Now I started feeling guru ji is with me, Guru ji is guiding me, i don't ask anything from others. Guru answers my questions. I would suggest you as you already are prepared for your journey, go for it don't delay, panth needs more khalsa membersn like you
we are all one in different bodies. Don't worry about anything you are already better than us
love to all

Good Luck my Sis.


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## itsmaneet (Oct 24, 2012)

Akasha said:


> Sat Sri Akal Ji,
> 
> I have the daily prayers in audio format (Giani Thakur Singh Ji's recording of Japji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Tav Parsad Savaiye, Chaupai Sahib, Anand Sahib, Rehras Sahib, and Kirtan Sohila.)  I also have the iPhone app called iNitnem E (English) and it has the trasliteration and translations for them so I can follow along as I listen.
> 
> ...


Akasha Ji

They say ...have faith in Waheguru & just get into the tides. Waheguru will help & take you to the safe shore. 

So w/o a single doubt & delays just take the "Amrit" & Punjabi/Gurmukhi can be learnt with time .... theres not that hurry & one shud not waste time in taking Amrit as nobody know when he/she will have his/her last breathe. So why waste time ....  

Gurfateh  !!


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## Harkiran Kaur (Oct 24, 2012)

Thanks for your kind words! It means a lot to me! I do want to point out however that I am not better than anyone... In fact I am still learning and making many mistakes in this experience we call life. Having said that, I believe the point to life is to realize the divine within ourselves (and everyone else) and merge back with the creator (this was my belief even before I knew this was what Sikhi teaches!) 

And a big realization I had awhile back is that (this is just my own realization / opinion) is that the real secret to 'Maya' or the illusion, is that we were never separate from the creator to begin with. We are all examples of the ONE creative consciousness (Waheguru) experiencing itself subjectively through many eyes (us). When I read the passage on P 736 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji telling us this fact in plain language... I was in awe! Also, having a background in quantum physics and a deep interest in how this physical world really IS an illusion made me want to follow Sikhi even more. I feel that divine presence and wish everyone I know could feel it too, but I guess they have to find it within themselves on their own and that's the whole point. 

But, I know my path is to follow Sikhi, and my life has been so blessed and I have been so happy since I started to attend the Gurdwara, do seva etc. I feel I am not 100% ready for Amrit yet though, as my career puts a few roadbloacks as to head covering. As I understand it, once Amritdhari, I would have to cover my head all the time, and though male Sikhs in the Canadian Forces are allowed to wear turbans, there is no allowance for women Sikhs to do so. Instead, its suggested that they wear their regular CF headdress all the time (and there is allowance to keep it on even when normally headdress would be removed like in mess halls etc - however, I can see that causing trouble as it would always be questioned, especially with a Gori Sikh like me where my superiors would always make me prove and provide references where a male Sikh would never have to do that.) I plan on learning to tie a dastar and will need to be done my military career first (which is only a few years away). Which is why I say a few years time from now. 

On the other hand, if I can challenge the current CF dress regulations, and find someone to do a video step by step how to tie the typical round women style turban, and if I can learn to do it neatly.... I could see taking Amrit before then! Especially now that I know I don't need to be fluent in Punjabi / Gurmuhki first. I see now that I can learn slowly as I read translations and listen to Nitnem recordings.  (btw at the Gurdwara, I do try to sing along and correctly pronounce in Punjabi along with the Sangat as they have a video screen with the transliterations and translations there as well... so that also helps me too and I am actually picking up some words that way just through repitition!) 

ps- I attached my favourite quote from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which is the one I mentioned above from P 736.




Kaur 1968 said:


> Dear Sister Akasha ji, you are awesome! you are very exited to join the khalsa panth.
> you have so much love for God's who's language is only love. no one have right to stop you for doing that. You can take Amrit anytime when you will feel deep voice from your heart. Guru Gobind Singh ji is calling you to become Guru ji's daughter then who can stop you. There is nothing wrong listening to nitnem as long as you listening with devotion. When i had first time read your post about being amitdhari after 2 or 3 years, my heart filled with joy. i want to see my khalsa panth expanding. Go for it don't wait, you are ready now. Guru will guide you step by step, just surrender your self to guruji, do ardass with your every breath, beg for Guru ji Amrit. Keep moving, don't look back life is too short, enjoy the Guru ji company. Everything you will get it will happen after you will be amitdhari. When i took amrit i was 7 months pregnant, didn't tell anybody not even to my family members. Now I started feeling guru ji is with me, Guru ji is guiding me, i don't ask anything from others. Guru answers my questions. I would suggest you as you already are prepared for your journey, go for it don't delay, panth needs more khalsa membersn like you
> we are all one in different bodies. Don't worry about anything you are already better than us
> love to all
> ...


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## Harkiran Kaur (Oct 24, 2012)

itsmaneet said:


> Akasha Ji
> 
> They say ...have faith in Waheguru & just get into the tides. Waheguru will help & take you to the safe shore.
> 
> ...


 

itsmanseet Ji, If I can overcome the current obstacle of my career re head covering, than I will likely do Amrit before then.  But I say a few years because that's when I will be done my career in the military.  (see my previous post for the explanation about women Sikhs and headdress in the Canadian Forces and why I have to wait)


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## Harry Haller (Oct 24, 2012)

itsmaneet said:


> Akasha Ji
> 
> They say ...have faith in Waheguru & just get into the tides. Waheguru will help & take you to the safe shore.
> 
> ...



I agree, and for all those budding doctors, to hell with silly things like knowledge and understanding, just take the exam! you'll all be fine, just have faith, mumble a few words in the morning, and the great marmalade magic stork will ensure you pass!!

I for one would welcome a few more enlightened souls into Khalsa, rather than more stepford wives or robots


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## namjiwankaur (Oct 24, 2012)

*Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??*

Sat Nam _/|\_



> I do not think anyone has the right to tell anyone else how best to communicate with Creator.



Bravo!


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## chazSingh (Oct 24, 2012)

> And a big realization I had awhile back is that (this is just my own realization / opinion) is that the real secret to 'Maya' or the illusion, is that we were never separate from the creator to begin with. We are all examples of the ONE creative consciousness (Waheguru) experiencing itself subjectively through many eyes (us). When I read the passage on P 736 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji telling us this fact in plain language... I was in awe!


 
This is complete truth, which we need to go and experience. SGGS Ji makes many things completely clear yet these forums are filled with the same doubts over and over. doubts are only removed when one experiences...so please continue to dedicate yourself to experiencing 



> But, I know my path is to follow Sikhi, and my life has been so blessed and I have been so happy since I started to attend the Gurdwara, do seva etc. I feel I am not 100% ready for Amrit yet though, as my career puts a few roadbloacks as to head covering. As I understand it, once Amritdhari, I would have to cover my head all the time,


 
There is another clear instruction/message from Dhan Guru Nanak Ji:

faer k agai rakheeai jith dhisai dharabaar ||
*So what offering can we place before Him, by which we might see the Darbaar of His Court?*
muha k bolan boleeai jith sun dhharae piaar ||
*What words can we speak to evoke His Love?
* 
a(n)mrith vaelaa sach naao vaddiaaee veechaar ||
*In the Amrit Vaylaa, the ambrosial hours before dawn, chant the True Name, and contemplate His Glorious Greatness.*

This is the clearest direction/instruction given to us on how we can obtain/experience the truth reality. So lets not waste any time on making the effort to do this. Everything else, all road blocks that your mind is telling you, will gradually be removed as you progress. Taking of Amrit and feeling of Amrit inside yourself will all come to you at the right time. Even if you cannot always cover your head, remember god is within your Hirda/spiritual heart...he won't hold anything against you if the love is there....all is Him, how can he stop you from returning home if he feels your love and devotion


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## Harkiran Kaur (Oct 24, 2012)

Harry Ji,

I have now noticed two different opinions on what it means to take Amrit:

1) The belief that taking Amrit is something you do AFTER already studying and knowing what is needed. So to become Amritdhari is in a sense a 'recognition' or reward for those who spent time to study and learn prior to taking it and are now seen as elite or enlightened group of Sikhs because of this prior knowledge and learning.

2) The belief that taking Amrit is a 'commitment' or 'promise' to learn and live the Sikhi way of life. This second group believe that by taking Amrit, one promises to keep learning, and promises to live by the SRM, but in no way assumes that they are elite or more knowledgeable than anyone else.

I assume you agree with #1 based on your quoted msg above. But... which is correct? Are either of the 2 correct? Or does it come down to personal interpretation? 

Myself, in asking the original qeustion for this thread, I had no opinion either way, but it was just something I noticed about the two camps of opinions regarding this. And I make no claims to know anything... should I follow camp 1 and not do Amrit until I am very knowledgeable in Sikhi, Punjabi, Gurmukhi etc. (what happens if my life ends in the mean time)? Or should I view Amrit as a promise and commitment to Guru Ji to learn along the way and live the Sikhi way of life? Based on the obvious divide in opinion on this, I truly do not know... (however I am leaning towards camp #2 that it is a personal commitment and promise, because how can you guage when anyone is knowledgeable enough or has enough understanding to be ready? Who can say who is ready and who is not? Should there be a written exam that one has to pass prior to taking Amrit maybe?) And what exactly is Enlightenment? Is it the inward feeling and realization of the divine within, or is it the ability to regurgitate memorized passages, rules, dogma etc?





harry haller said:


> I agree, and for all those budding doctors, to hell with silly things like knowledge and understanding, just take the exam! you'll all be fine, just have faith, mumble a few words in the morning, and the great marmalade magic stork will ensure you pass!!
> 
> I for one would welcome a few more enlightened souls into Khalsa, rather than more stepford wives or robots


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## Harry Haller (Oct 24, 2012)

Akasha said:


> Harry Ji,
> 
> I have now noticed two different opinions on what it means to take Amrit:
> 
> ...



Bhenji

In your heart you will know, its whatever suits your interpretation, your take on things. 

Do not allow anyone to tell you otherwise. It is something you must figure out for yourself.


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## Harry Haller (Oct 24, 2012)

> a) Ambrosial baptism should be held at an exclusive place away from common human traffic.
> b) At the place where ambrosial baptism is to be administered, the holy Guru Granth Sahib should be installed and ceremonially opened. Also present should be six committed baptised Sikhs, one of whom should sit in attendance of the Guru Granth Sahib and the other five should be there to administer the ambrosial baptism. These six may even include Sikh women. All of them must have taken bath and washed their hair.
> c) The five beloved (Panj Piyare) ones who administer ambrosial baptism not include a disabled person, such as a person who is blind or blind in one eye, lame, one with a broken or disabled limb, or one suffering from some chronic disease. The number should not include anyone who has committed a breach of the Sikh discipline and principles. All of them should be committed baptised Sikhs with appealing personalities.
> d) Any man or woman of any country, religion or caste who embraces Sikhism and solemnly undertakes to abide by its principles is entitled to ambrosial baptism. The person to be baptised should not be of very young age; he or she should have attained a plausible degree of discretion. The person to be baptised must have taken bath and washed the hair and must wear all five K's- Kesh (unshorn hair), strapped Kirpan (sword),. Kachhehra (prescribed shorts), Kanga (Comb tucked in the tied up hair), Karha (Steel bracelet). He/she must not have on his/her person any token of any other faith. He/she must not have his/her head bare or be wearing a cap. He/she must not be wearing any ornaments piercing through any part of the body. The persons to be baptised must stand respectfully with hands folded facing the Guru Granth Sahib. e. Anyone seeking to be rebaptised, having committed an aberration, should be singled out and the five beloved ones should award chastisement to him/her in the presence of the congregation.
> ...


 from SRM





for the record, I think both camps are correct, it depends on the individual, also note that if you do not know Gurmukhi, you are advised to learn it, so it would appear that knowing Gurmukhi prior is not an issue


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## Harkiran Kaur (Oct 24, 2012)

harry haller said:


> from SRM
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Thank you so much for that!  The version I looked up did not have the part in brackets where it said that if you don't know it currently you must learn it... meaning I can learn over time at my own pace, after taking Amrit, and it's not a requirement prior to!  It will still be a few years before I do Amrit... but I won't be so worried now about being fluent...


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## chazSingh (Oct 24, 2012)

Akasha said:


> Harry Ji,
> 
> Myself, in asking the original qeustion for this thread, I had no opinion either way, but it was just something I noticed about the two camps of opinions regarding this. And I make no claims to know anything... should I follow camp 1 and not do Amrit until I am very knowledgeable in Sikhi, Punjabi, Gurmukhi etc. (what happens if my life ends in the mean time)? Or should I view Amrit as a promise and commitment to Guru Ji to learn along the way and live the Sikhi way of life? Based on the obvious divide in opinion on this, I truly do not know... (however I am leaning towards camp #2 that it is a personal commitment and promise, because how can you guage when anyone is knowledgeable enough to be ready? Who can say who is ready and who is not? Should there be a written exam maybe?)


 
Satnaam Ji,

no amount of study, intellect will carry us to god...if we progress spiritually, it will be because of Him (god), and not us (ego). Sometimes too much study creates doubts...the mind creates doubts and fears...all these precious moments lost where one can just follow guru ji's instruction and do simran at amrit vela...we cannot study to love...love for god cannot be learnt.

I spent some time reading gurbani, studyign it, and realised it kept telling me to make an effort and do amrit vela along with seva, but i kept wanting to read more...it wasnt taking me anywhere...what did i actually experience...

so now i have just put the studying to one side. God is beyond mind. one can only walk the path and breath the spiritual air. it cannot be learned. the meaning of gurbani will evolve and change with your own progression...it is endless...it will be your companion...anything you experience you can go back to it, re-read it and you will find extra things you didnt realise before...and the journey progresses.

but the decision on how you progress is your decision...keep doing your ardaas and it'll come to you...

god bless.


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## linzer (Oct 24, 2012)

I have a question. As the S.G.G.S is written in 10 different langagues , if you speak modern Punjabi how much of and how easily can you understand it? For example If you speak modern English you can superficially understand Shakeseare but need a good dictionary and dedication to get all the jokes. How much different is the Punjabi of the S.G.G.S from modern Punjabi. 
Kabir wrote in Hindi. I've heard that Hindi is very close to Punjabi, closer than Spanish is to Italian, I was told. I speak Spanish and can understand someone speaking Italian if they're giving directions or something simple but not much more. What about the other languages used? 
We need a head scrathing Icon.

By the way I think If you think your're ready to take amrit then your're ready. No one else really knows. nothing ventured, Nothing gained.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 24, 2012)

I am surprised to see how the discussion is going far away from the basic 
question of Listening to instead of reciting of Bani.
The topic related to Amrit taking is very much being discussed in other
threads.
I feel sorry for this interuption.
Prakash.s.Bagga


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## Luckysingh (Oct 24, 2012)

chazSingh said:


> There is another clear instruction/message from Dhan Guru Nanak Ji:
> 
> faer k agai rakheeai jith dhisai dharabaar ||
> *So what offering can we place before Him, by which we might see the Darbaar of His Court?*
> ...


I have known that shabad for years but I never ever saw the real significance of 'Amrit vela' any clearer than it is put here in this shabad.
Absolutely beautiful !!!

You know, what can I offer ? All the services and goodness that I can give to the world, but it is not as good as making the ''EFFORT' at amrit vela.

I think it is more about the 'effort' that is NOT for self or for anyone else.
This effort for the lord is the greatest gift for him before the day begins.

I know some sikhs think of it as ritualistic as we treat it like an auspicious time, they therefore don't make the real effort and treat it as the time that can 'suit them'.
-(I too have thought on similar lines in the past)

But You can only realise it's true significance when you make that effort with pure and true intentions only.

To have to do this every day without fail once one takes amrit is more than a blessing.
It's a shame that there are many sikhs who don't see or understand what it really means, instead they point out there geographical locations and work shifts..etc...


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## chazSingh (Oct 25, 2012)

Luckysingh said:


> I have known that shabad for years but I never ever saw the real significance of 'Amrit vela' any clearer than it is put here in this shabad.
> Absolutely beautiful !!!
> 
> You know, what can I offer ? All the services and goodness that I can give to the world, but it is not as good as making the ''EFFORT' at amrit vela.
> ...


 
Well put Lucky Ji,

i know this is going kinda off topic, but i feel it's of most significance because our mind has so many questions/doubts etc, but guru ji gives us this most beautiful instruction on how we can find out everything for ourselves 

I made an effort for amrit vela a few years ago, but failed miserably...
but this time around the iner pull/motivation is really strong. 
The level of concentration, clarity of vision, and focus on waheguru one can achieve when the world sleeps cannot be compared. complete awareness and concentration is needed to listen to our inner selves and to concentrate on the waheguru mantra.

It's only after experiencing amrit vela do we realise that doing Simran any other time of the day just isnt the same...the intensity isnt there...
it's still great to do it at other times but not as intense...and as you say the 'effort' i think is appreciated by god...afterall to do something like that must require a deep inner love for god...otherwise one just makes excuses and enjoys sleep 

god bless


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## hpannu (Oct 25, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> I am surprised to see how the discussion is going far away from the basic
> question of Listening to instead of reciting of Bani.
> The topic related to Amrit taking is very much being discussed in other
> threads.
> ...



Dear All -please do not take it as offense ! but I would like to know how many of commenting members on this thread have experienced Amrit Sanchaar !

I like Parkash Ji's comment - how this is going off topic ?

I feel like - if you have no experience then you shouldn't advise. That's just me, everyone person is different. I am not saying I'm right and you guys are wrong.

There is a saying in Punjabi - Uneyaan ch kaana raja ! 

Sometimes I feel like I am wasting precious time on Internet. 

I do comment here and there - not much. Have to filter through lot of stuff to read good experience of others.

Bhul Chuk Maaf !!!!


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## chazSingh (Oct 25, 2012)

hpannu said:


> Dear All -please do not take it as offense ! but I would like to know how many of commenting members on this thread have experienced Amrit Sanchaar !
> 
> I like Parkash Ji's comment - how this is going off topic ?
> 
> ...


 
Satnaam Ji,

In Akasha Ji's opening comment to this thread she asked:
*Can I still do Amrit if I am not fluent in Punjabi?*

This is why other sangat members are talking about subject of amrit.

I personally haven't done amrit sanchar, but my advice to Akasha Ji was that if she feels love for guru and is getting inner pull of waheguru to take amrit then she should take her amrit when she is ready even though she is not fluent in punjabi....pyar for guru/god i feel is very important.

For me personally, many people said i could not do amrit vela simran without Amrit Sanchar, but for some reason i have had a big pull to wake up daily in amrit vela and do 2.5 hours of simran...with guru ji's grace it has been truely amazing, maybe amrit will folow..i am just letting inner feeling and intuition guide me 

sorry if i have offended anyone

Satnaam


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## chazSingh (Oct 25, 2012)

harcharanjitsinghdhillon said:


> to my understanding the real bani will be understood when we with the help of a true satguru go deep in meditation... first starts with reciting slowly when we go deeper in meditation then it changes to listening only.. soul only listen,, but mind only talk


 
yes ji,

from my own personal experience and guidance from SGGS Ji, this is the way it seems to develop. In japji there is a whole section starting with Sunia - listening.

Even when we reciting in mind, silently, we listen deeply to the sounds...eventually we just listen to within in deep meditation.

God bless


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 26, 2012)

Originally Posted by *harcharanjitsinghdhillon* 

 
_to my understanding the real bani will be understood when we with the help of a true satguru go deep in meditation... first starts with reciting slowly when we go deeper in meditation then it changes to listening only.. soul only listen,, but mind only talk_

I agree with the views of the Quote by Harcharanjit Singh Dhillon ji.
When he says with the help of true Satguru ,he is right but the question is
who is true satguru and how to take the help.This has not been clarified 
in the post.
It is true that meeting with true Satguru is must. Without having met SAtguru all efforts and experienes are just matter for talks.

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## chazSingh (Oct 26, 2012)

Can Aman Singh please let us know why Harcharanjit's comment above has been deleted for the reason of spamming?

I do not know about his other messages but the content of the message he posted on this thread had nothing wrong about it.

If you could please explain.

Thanks

Satnaam


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## chazSingh (Oct 26, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> Originally Posted by *harcharanjitsinghdhillon*
> 
> 
> _to my understanding the real bani will be understood when we with the help of a true satguru go deep in meditation... first starts with reciting slowly when we go deeper in meditation then it changes to listening only.. soul only listen,, but mind only talk_
> ...


 
*Bani of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Satguru*

pooran joth jagai ghatt mai thab khaalas thaahi nakhaalas jaanai ||
*Such a man, in whose heart shines the full Divinely Radiant Light is a true a pure Khalsa - dassam 1*

*khhaalasaa maero sathigur pooraa - amrit keertan 291*

Inner shabad (light and sound of god) is satguru / shabad guru:
a(n)thar sabadh rav*i**aa* g*u*r p*aa*e*i**aa* sagal*ae* dh*oo*kh n*i*v*aa*r*ae* ||
*The Shabad permeates my inner being, and I have found the Guru; all my sorrows are dispelled.*



in the end we will probably find that all are the same and One....but came to us in many forms o ferry us across.

He is the only Doer, we cannot do anything by ourselves (ego). i guess when the love wells up the meeting is arranged by one or more of the guru manifestations above.

har prabh k*aa*j rach*aa*e*i**aa* ||
*The Lord God has arranged the marriage ceremony;*

This is just my understanding through my current experience of simran.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 26, 2012)

chazSingh said:


> *Bani of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Satguru*
> 
> pooran joth jagai ghatt mai thab khaalas thaahi nakhaalas jaanai ||
> *Such a man, in whose heart shines the full Divinely Radiant Light is a true a pure Khalsa - dassam 1*
> ...


 

Can you pl post a Quote from SGGS ji about Banee being refered as Satguru.?

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## chazSingh (Oct 26, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> Can you pl post a Quote from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji about Banee being refered as Satguru.?
> 
> Prakash.S.Bagga


 
*SGGS Ji 982 
*sabh hai breham breham hai pasariaa man beejiaa khaavaarae ||
baanee guroo guroo hai baanee vich baanee a(n)mrith saarae ||
*The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained.
* 
gur baanee kehai saevak jan maanai parathakh guroo nisathaarae ||5||
*If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him. ||5||
* 
sabh hai breham breham hai pasariaa man beejiaa khaavaarae ||
*All is God, and God is the whole expanse; man eats what he has planted.*

In the end though god is everything, god is god, god is guru, and god is the seeker (sikh) ... everything is Him, and the many is one...but this cannot be described in physical language and words...has to be experienced


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 26, 2012)

chazSingh said:


> *Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 982 *
> sabh hai breham breham hai pasariaa man beejiaa khaavaarae ||
> baanee guroo guroo hai baanee vich baanee a(n)mrith saarae ||
> *The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained.*
> ...


Now it is clear that the clear message is as gur banee kehai.....
Should there be any difference in the meanings of Guru and gur or not.?
This is importand to understand.
I may inform you that the english version is incorrect with reference to 
grammar of gurbanee words.
In Gurmukhi version you will find that the word Guru is Guroo and the word
gur is as guru..

so I think one can understand the gurubanee means Banee of guru or one can understand that the banee is of satguru(not that banee is satguru)

Prakash.s.Bagga


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## chazSingh (Oct 26, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> Now it is clear that the clear message is as gur banee kehai.....
> Should there be any difference in the meanings of Guru and gur or not.?
> This is importand to understand.
> I may inform you that the english version is incorrect with reference to
> ...


 
No matter how much we intellectually try to understand what guru is and any other concept in gurbani, our mind will never be able to understand something that is beyond the mind.

is an apple sweet, is it sour, is it juicy, is it dry? how can we know for sure? maybe we should eat it? but when you eat one apple, and then you eat another apple, you realise they both give you different experience, but they are both still an apple.

enjoy your actual experience ji. our experience of Guru will be endless and in many forms along the way. atleast that is what i am realising...your experience may be different....but in the end everything will still One and the Same.

Everything in creation doesnt matter ji, books, bodies...the same principle that lies within everything...only that matters...the shabad/word/guru/god = one.

just my experience so far on my journey...but in the sea of infinite possibility, sangats experience may be different.


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## chazSingh (Oct 26, 2012)

jo praanee govi(n)dh dhhiaavai ||
*That mortal who meditates on the Lord of the Universe,

*parriaa anaparriaa param gath paavai ||1||
*whether educated or uneducated*, obtains the state of supreme dignity. ||1|| 197

you see ji, from the above shabad we dont need to discuss all the ins and outs of everything, and try to get an understanding intellectually.
We just need to open ourselves up to what is within us...simran, amrit vela, inner contemplation, to listen within..whats there, what is our consciosness...listen to it, demand it from god/guru...and it will come...all the answers to everything will come to you...but not in language...it will be your own true inner experience....real experience...real knowledge, real wisdom, real awareness, real enlightenment 

I only  hope God blesses me (sinner, lowest of the low) and the sangat with this true experience.

Satnaam


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 26, 2012)

chazSingh said:


> jo praanee govi(n)dh dhhiaavai ||
> *That mortal who meditates on the Lord of the Universe,*
> 
> parriaa anaparriaa param gath paavai ||1||
> ...


 

It is really fine to have such an understanding. Only Ssatguru can bless with its own way of understanding. I fully agree to your this point of view

Therefore it may be concluded that there is no point of sharing the understanding of Gurbanee.

Then what for the views are being posted.?

Prakash.s.Bagga


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## Harkiran Kaur (Oct 26, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> It is really fine to have such an understanding. Only Ssatguru can bless with its own way of understanding. I fully agree to your this point of view
> 
> Therefore it may be concluded that there is no point of sharing the understanding of Gurbanee.
> 
> ...


 

Because knowing other's points of view is always beneficial... because it gives you different perspectives on things and more to contemplate. It's the experience that is deeply personal, but knowing how others interpret their experience can not be a bad thing. It won't take away from your own personal experience, but it CAN add to it.


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## chazSingh (Oct 26, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> It is really fine to have such an understanding. Only Ssatguru can bless with its own way of understanding. I fully agree to your this point of view
> 
> Therefore it may be concluded that there is no point of sharing the understanding of Gurbanee.
> 
> ...


 
sharing and discussing gurbani is enjoyable, enlightening, and uplifting....and develops love for god/guru....i agree...it helped me so much...it made me wonder about god, made me think about guru...my interest in god just grew, and from somewhere the thirst for Him started to intensify....

but eventually i realised it doesnt matter how much i study, get grammer correct, discuss what this is, or discuss what that is...none of it will get me to experience god...too many opinions, they were confusing me.
i realised i have no choice but to start doing amrit vela, and to really see what this is all about.


n*aa*nak kathhan*aa* kararr*aa* s*aa*r ||37||
_*O Nanak, to describe this is as hard as steel!* ||37||_

amrit vela is the airport, guru is the plane, all our answers will be givin on the flight (regadless of how much we think we understand gurbani) .. love, thirst, devotion is the fuel for the plane...and with grace we reach our destination


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 26, 2012)

CHAZ SINGh Ji,
Well I find you are really graced to have boarded on a right plane for right
destination.
Gurbanee is very articulate in its message. Since Banee is GuR and is for all.
Who so ever reads this gets the answer to his mental satisfaction.
So every person gets different level of understanding depending upon his quantum and quality of thrust of knowing.
GuRu is ever graceful to all .One can look for this quote as
"Satgur sada dayal Hai Bhaee Vin Karmaa Kiya Paayiae
Ek Nadar kari Dekhe Sab Upar Jaisaa Bhaau Taisaa ful Paayiae"

So satguru always gives you the answer one seeks for.I saught the answer for Gurmat Ram Naamu 
so I got the answer for that.If I tell that to others no one can accept or understand that because the person whom I am telling may not be mentally prepared for that .
So it is only when Guru makes the grace one is graced otherwise not.

So with all the best wishes for enjoying the grace of Hari ji.-(satguru)

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## chazSingh (Oct 26, 2012)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> CHAZ SINGh Ji,
> Well I find you are really graced to have boarded on a right plane for right
> destination.
> Gurbanee is very articulate in its message. Since Banee is GuR and is for all.
> ...


 
you are 100% correct ji,

true meaning comes only by his grace and when we are ready to receive it  and only understood when we are at correct spiritual level.

I hope guru ji continues to glance his grace on everyone and myself (sinner and low life who keeps falling prey to 5 thieves)

until we receive his grace, let us continue to offer our mann, dhan, tan through amrit vela, seva and daswandh - complete bagti.

God bless you and the sangat


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## Arvind (Mar 25, 2013)

Guru Nanak Dev Ji emphasizes the importance of listening Japji Sahib in four pauris (8 to 11).

People who do not know Punjabi language, but have full faith in Guru Sahibs, who are able to ride the vibrations of paath and keertan, and connect with Him are much better than ... (leaving it incomplete! you got the meaning .. right?)

Ability to connect, to communicate, to talk, to love... is what matters the most in my opinion.

Regards, Arvind.


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## chazSingh (Mar 25, 2013)

myself personally, i can read punjabi but not that well...so i tend to listen to say japji sahib using headphones with eyes closed at amrit vela before simran...i do believe listening to the sounds and vibrations helps a lot.

What i think is even more important that listening and reciting is taking gurbani and implementing in life...thats the real test...so for example..

n*aa*nak parakh*ae* *aa*p ko th*aa* p*aa*rakh j*aa*n ||
_O Nanak, if someone judges himself, only then is he known as a real judge._
_http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=433_

_living the above gurbani is extremely difficult...to judge only oneself..and not the people around you.._

_you walk into a room..and you catch someone talking behind your back...what do you do...judge the other...shout out in anger? or do you step back, analyse the situation...look at how you yourself are feeling...did you feel anger, hurt...why? shall i forgive?_

_self judgement...so difficult...yet so important..._

_Living gurbani seems to be the most important _


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## findingmyway (Mar 25, 2013)

Moderation note: 
1) "Do amrit" sounds a little disrespectful. The Amrit Sanchar Ceremony or Khande Bhatte Di Pahual is not something that is done, but is undertaken or committed to. Please do not refer to it as a common activity.

2) SPN TOS states ALL shabads must be posted in FULL as one-liners or quoting small portions are very misleading. The next post to break this rule WILL be DELETED without warning. We have repeated this a thousand times, please take note and remember :noticemunda::yellingsardarni:


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