# People Defaming Sikhism



## Sukhmani Brar (Aug 9, 2007)

What makes people believe that Dasam Granth was written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. How can they have faulty thinking for the Sikh Gurus (I don't know if people are doing it consciously or unconsciously). How can we aware people about what they are reading? How can we shatter this organized crime? By crime here I mean (distorting Sikhism). I was not aware about what was written in Dasam Granth and what is the controversy behind it. But now that I know, I am really astonished to see that people are actually supporting Dasam Granth. I feel ashamed that people are not able to realize how Sikhs themselves are making fun of themselves.

People should see this video and try to analyze some of the disastrous writings in Dasam Granth. I am really thankful to people who made this video.

SSI Canada

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.

Bhul chuk maaf karni ji

Regards,
Sukhmani


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## The Khalsa Fauj (Aug 9, 2007)

That is exactly what we are trying to get at. More videos and audios will be put up on that website in the future. It is good that you have realised. Theree is a lot more stuff to read about it at:
ABOUT DASAM GRANTH

SSI Canada

http://singhsabhacanada.com/video.php?By=ਜੁਗਰਾਜ%20ਕੌਰ


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## The Khalsa Fauj (Aug 9, 2007)

Only *******ed and morally ill people promote dasam granth. Even Hollywood and Bollywood movies are better than the **** in dasam granth.


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## International Akaali (Aug 9, 2007)

what i can see is this.... these people have there own ageda some are just lost and the others are just trying to distort sikhism to satisfy there ego.... 

When it comes to the question of who is kab syam and kab raam... they give these blaphamous arguments which are just laughable.... 

when in dasam granth it says 

"post bhang afeem mangayi, piyo mad sok bida kar daaryo"

take post bhang affeem and alchohol and all your tensions and worries shall be removed

take this kind of dirt and call it the bani of our great guru dasam patsha shri guru gobind singh ji.. 

dont these people have any shame? a "granth" which is filled with stories of sex, drugs, lieing cheating etc is called the "dasam granth"? what do all these stories teach us? are these stories supposed to teach us not to do these things which some peopel claim thats wha they do they make you think of things which u have never though before in your life. how is reading stories that have people taking each others clothes away etc (dont want to get into detail) supposed to control kaam? 

This is no personal attack on vijaydfeep but i can see that he went to india he tried to take khanday bhatay tha amrit from nihungs and they rejected him because of his caste... nihungs are the number one promoters of dasam granth... cant you see that what these stories have done to these people... they were once ghuru ki fauj but know they are justa bunch of drugged out fakes.... what has the dasam granth done for these druggies.... and yet when u come back from india u are still hellbent on proving dasam granth to be the work of guru gobind singh ji..


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## Sherab (Aug 9, 2007)

hello all

I am very new here but can people explain what is going on?

In Buddhist literature, stories of drugs, etc. are symbolic and not taken litterally, however, I guess that is not prevelant in Sikhism.

 - Surinderjit


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## The Khalsa Fauj (Aug 9, 2007)

We aren't buddists. In Tantarmat, sex is openly allowed so followers of shaktimat and tantarmatt wrote chariters.

Shaktism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tantra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also buddist religion isn't what Budda wanted. Buddism was changed right after Budda died by his Brahman chelas. Budda didn't write any of his books so it isn't authentic. However Budda tried to create revolution against Brahmanism and Karam kaand and succeded but all was lost and Brahman took over again. Now Brahman is trying to modify Sikhi to finish it off but as long as Chardi Kala Singhs are here, it won't happen.

Guru Sahib said:
Ik Gur, Ikka Bani, Iko Shabad Veechar.

Poets clearly identify themselves throughtout this book. Where they aren't identified directly, they can be identified by their matching sentences.

Vijaydeep is either a lost soul or is a gdaarrr.

Sherab, you should listen to the videos posted in the links above.


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## Sherab (Aug 9, 2007)

The Khalsa Fauj said:


> We aren't buddists. In Tantarmat, sex is openly allowed so followers of shaktimat and tantarmatt wrote chariters.
> 
> Shaktism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> ...


Please do not take offense -

Buddhism as far as the tripitaka was not changed. While he was alive he had groups of monks memorizing certain parts of the teachings to be remembered orally, and when it got to Sri Lanka, it was coded into the "3 baskets" we have now in Theravada.

As for Mahayana, that too was the Buddha teachings is not as far against brahmins. Buddhists to were against the caste system. And that is indeed correct, however, practitioners of Buddhist tantra, namely the cycle of Chakrasamvara can still be found in remote north india and for sure in nepal.

Second, I seriously doubt you have researched Buddhism as you can't spell it right - this isn't a matter of your english, but rather sanskrit transliteration is ahrd for some, so no worries.

As far as tantra goes, continuing with my post - Tantra itself, as long as it is of the 3 inner tantra of Nyingma, or the anuttara yoga tantra system of the sarma schools, there is no real sex applied except for the exceptional practitioners. In fact, Gelug-pa sect of Sarma does not allow tantric sex (karma mudra) to be allowed in its monastic or lay practitioners.

Anyways, the point of sex in Buddhist tantra has more to do with the subtle channels, winds, and drops - it is seen that male and female have more of, respectively, white and red in the system - specfically in the center of the heart chakra. you circulate the winds to dissolve into the heart, and in tantra, this best done though sex. however, ejaculation is the root downfall of tantra as it allows the "white" to escape, and not dissolve into the heart center leading to bliss and clear thought which can be sued in meditation.

In lower tantras, such as kriya, charya, and yoga-tantras, there is no sex or meditation of winds channels and drops and utilizes visualization.

 - Surinderjit


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## The Khalsa Fauj (Aug 9, 2007)

To spell 
D
I use two dd or ddh or just dh. I just used two Ds there. You might know more about Buddism but I am saying what I have read in history. There was a reason why Buddism got finished in India and it was infiltration by Brahmans. Don’t try to act like a laama here. The whole world knows why Buddism got finished in India. Whatever is left in other countries is nothing more than karam kaand which came from Brhamans. If you want to defame Budda by saying he wrote sexual stories, it is your choice. I don’t care about Buddha. We are talking about Dasam Granth here. Make a new topic about Budda. Don’t ruin our topic. Buddha was at level level than that of Guru Sahib and Bhagats. No offence intended but it is fact. As for the stuff you just posted above, you keep it to yourself. I don’t want to get into karam kaand.


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## Sherab (Aug 9, 2007)

The Khalsa Fauj said:


> To spell
> D
> I use two dd or ddh or just dh. I just used two Ds there. You might know more about Buddism but I am saying what I have read in history. There was a reason why Buddism got finished in India and it was infiltration by Brahmans. Don’t try to act like a laama here. The whole world knows why Buddism got finished in India. Whatever is left in other countries is nothing more than karam kaand which came from Brhamans. If you want to defame Budda by saying he wrote sexual stories, it is your choice. I don’t care about Buddha. We are talking about Dasam Granth here. Make a new topic about Budda. Don’t ruin our topic. Buddha was at level level than that of Guru Sahib and Bhagats. No offence intended but it is fact. As for the stuff you just posted above, you keep it to yourself. I don’t want to get into karam kaand.


So, since we are talking about Dasam Granth - where can I read an English translation?


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## kds1980 (Aug 9, 2007)

Sherab said:


> hello all
> 
> I am very new here but can people explain what is going on?
> 
> ...



Let me tell you what is going on.In sikhism there are 2 views on dasam granth 1 party beleives that dasam granth is written by guru gobind singh ji the other beleive that it is not written by some hindu's who wrote it under the name of guru gobind singh ji.the dispute on this issue is very big.On this site khalsa fauj,international akaali ,are hardcore anti dasam granth and vijaydeep singh is pro dasam granth.

you are a new convert to sikhism so i suggest you to please stay away from this dispute.


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## kds1980 (Aug 9, 2007)

Sherab said:


> So, since we are talking about Dasam Granth - where can I read an English translation?



You can read all the sikh scripture  on following site.

http://www.searchgurbani.com/


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## spnadmin (Aug 9, 2007)

kds1980  ji

I say "ditto."

Stay in Chardi Kala


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## Sherab (Aug 9, 2007)

kds1980 said:


> Let me tell you what is going on.In sikhism there are 2 views on dasam granth 1 party beleives that dasam granth is written by guru gobind singh ji the other beleive that it is not written by some hindu's who wrote it under the name of guru gobind singh ji.the dispute on this issue is very big.On this site khalsa fauj,international akaali ,are hardcore anti dasam granth and vijaydeep singh is pro dasam granth.
> 
> you are a new convert to sikhism so i suggest you to please stay away from this dispute.


thank you.


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## Sukhmani Brar (Aug 9, 2007)

sat shri akal,

I have a few questions for followers of Dasam Granth.

1. We are the youth of India.( Me being 20 years old female). *Do the Dasam Granth followers want to give that crappy education to their daughters?* (To mention: I am not talking about some people who have lost their minds and are sending their daughters to different deras, where the poor girls are being exploited. People like them would definitely support Dasam Granth (They just view religion as something what a handful of people (dressed in dastaars, who look like real educated beings but in reality know nothing about relegion) tend to teach them. They are fooling Sikhs. They are attacking on human weaknesses and making people follow them. Now it depends on us how we want to interpret religion(with knowledge or believing in something blindfolded). How shameful is it that the real Sikhs like professor Inder singh ghagga are being excommunicated. Who gave those people right to determine whether someone is a true Sikh or not. Are they trying to be our Gurus?

2. How can you call yourself a Sikh if you happen to have dirty *imagination* about the Sikh Gurus. Are you trying to say that Guru Gobind Singh ji was different from the other nine Guru's? If the other 9 Gurus didn't happen to believe in such lusty education, wouldn't they not choose Guru Gobind Singh ji as 10th Guru? So, technically you are trying to defame Guru Gobind Singh ji's personality which I would say is shameful.


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## The Khalsa Fauj (Aug 9, 2007)

Sukhmani Brar said:


> sat shri akal,
> 
> I have a few questions for followers of Dasam Granth.
> 
> ...


 
100% agree!


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## skeptik (Aug 9, 2007)

I have no opinion on the subject but Khalsafauj you sound like an idiot bigot mate. fixup.


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## The Khalsa Fauj (Aug 9, 2007)

skeptik said:


> I have no opinion on the subject but Khalsafauj you sound like an idiot bigot mate. fixup.


 
Tell me how. Maybe I can get a tip or two and fix up. Send me private message if you don't want to post here. No big deal.


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## The Khalsa Fauj (Aug 9, 2007)

Sherab
Check out the links:

Tripitaka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pali Canon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Those links suggest tripitaka being compiled after death of Gautam Budh.

Also I pronounce Budd or Buddha or Budha or Budh as written in Gurmukhi in Japuji Sahib by Guru Nanak Maharaj Ji which is *buD*


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## Sherab (Aug 9, 2007)

The Khalsa Fauj said:


> Sherab
> Check out the links:
> 
> Tripitaka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...


However the oral tradition was kept perfectly by monks.


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## The Khalsa Fauj (Aug 9, 2007)

Easy said than done but doesn't really matter. No big deal. Time to move on.


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## Astroboy (Aug 10, 2007)

In Thailand, Bhuddism is distorted by Brahmanism. I even went to Cambodia and Laos. In Laos, Buddhism is still 'original'.


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## Sherab (Aug 10, 2007)

begum said:


> In Thailand, Bhuddism is distorted by Brahmanism. I even went to Cambodia and Laos. In Laos, Buddhism is still 'original'.


In all my years of talking top hindus, and Buddhists, of all types, I only find this point brought up in Sikh circles. I'm afraid to say, outside of Sikh circles, such views are not to be found.

PS. Please do define what you mean by "brahminism". thx.


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## Astroboy (Aug 10, 2007)

I'm not good at defining what I witness by seeing. By this I mean that I spent a whole month in each country. But I stayed in Thailand for many years. It takes a creative writer to do what. All I can say is the Buddhist believe in Durga, Kali and symbol of Lingam which is actually exactly like the male sex organ instead of the Shivalingam in India. 
Even stalls in market places sell stuff like that but it is sacred to them. 

Thousand apologies.


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## Sherab (Aug 10, 2007)

begum said:


> I'm not good at defining what I witness by seeing. By this I mean that I spent a whole month in each country. But I stayed in Thailand for many years. It takes a creative writer to do what. All I can say is the Buddhist believe in Durga, Kali and symbol of Lingam which is actually exactly like the male sex organ instead of the Shivalingam in India.
> Even stalls in market places sell stuff like that but it is sacred to them.
> 
> Thousand apologies.


Dear friend:

They do not believe in Durga: depending on where you are in laos/Thailand, Tantra was once popular there, and it is believed a tantric masted, probably Padmasambhava subdued dakinis into practicing the dharma who then offer protection to the humans there.
Also, Buddhism adapts more to a culture more then anything. as for Lingam, I cannot comment except there are some more "sexual" imagery found in tantra that is symbolic as a means of taming ones subconscious mind ( a very strong force) to follow and practice Dharma. This is hard to explain, so my apologies.

- Surinderjit


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## Akashdeep Singh (Aug 12, 2007)

Sherab said:


> hello all
> 
> I am very new here but can people explain what is going on?
> 
> ...




There is a difference between a message given on social evils or problems (like that given in AGGS) and the useless vulgar stories that are written in Dasam Granth. The use of vulgar language in Dasam Granth is unwarranted and is not the work of any Sikh guru. Sikh Gurus have used a sensible language wherever they wanted to give any such message. 

I get surprised by people who claim these stories are written to give knowledge. Its like somebody watching porn movies everyday and then arguing that he is watching all those stories to get knowledge what can happen in life. ...ahh!! what a logical answer! bravo!!

Anybody interested in knowing should first start reading Dasam Granth and then use AGGS as a touching stone to evaluate it. The truth will not evade an open and logical mind. 

Chardi kala, 
-Akashdeep Singh


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## drkhalsa (Aug 12, 2007)

> I get surprised by people who claim these stories are written to give knowledge. Its like somebody watching porn movies everyday and then arguing that he is watching all those stories to get knowledge what can happen in life. ...ahh!! what a logical answer! bravo!!



Dear Friend 

Are You aure that as your example states that Dasam garnth is about /or very equivalent to porn movies 

Well in my opiniion they are not similar ( opinion do differ!)

Thats make me wonder have everbody thinking so have actually watched Porn ?  or  Dasam Granth 

One more question come to me      Is there anyway to talk about Porn and relate to it in examples without actually having watched it in life

Well as I said earlier Opinions do differ and in my case they are not rigid and do change as  my life come accross various experiences  .But at the Moment In my  opinion  Dasam Granth  is NOT Porn at the least 



Thanks 

Jatinder Singh


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## Akashdeep Singh (Aug 12, 2007)

drkhalsa said:


> Dear Friend
> 
> Are You aure that as your example states that Dasam garnth is about /or very equivalent to porn movies



Dear friend,

The comparison done in my commnet is that of tendency of people to tell that those stories in Dasam Granth are giving knowledge. The similarity drawn is that of excuse making style, not of the subject itself. 

Yes, personal opinions may differ but Gurmat does not differ. If you use the touchstone of AGGS to evaluate Dasam Granth you will find that so many things are not consistent with AGGS. 

Chardi kala, 
-Akashdeep Singh


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 27, 2007)

Gurfateh


Sukhmani Brar said:


> What makes people believe that Dasam Granth was written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. How can they have faulty thinking for the Sikh Gurus (I don't know if people are doing it consciously or unconsciously). How can we aware people about what they are reading? How can we shatter this organized crime? By crime here I mean (distorting Sikhism). I was not aware about what was written in Dasam Granth and what is the controversy behind it. But now that I know, I am really astonished to see that people are actually supporting Dasam Granth. I feel ashamed that people are not able to realize how Sikhs themselves are making fun of themselves.
> 
> People should see this video and try to analyze some of the disastrous writings in Dasam Granth. I am really thankful to people who made this video.
> 
> ...


 
Bhai Sahib are yourself a Berar jatt or a Singh ?


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 27, 2007)

Gurfateh


International Akaali said:


> what i can see is this.... these people have there own ageda some are just lost and the others are just trying to distort sikhism to satisfy there ego....
> 
> When it comes to the question of who is kab syam and kab raam... they give these blaphamous arguments which are just laughable....
> 
> ...


 
Long time no see dear Bhai Inter national Khiladi.


If you spit on an idiot like das.Das will make his face under your mouth.

anyway
"post bhang afeem mangayi, piyo mad sok bida kar daaryo"

here brought poppy,canabis and opium,drink prode made sorrow to flee.

Kindly prove the Chrecter number and verse number as this verse is not going well with the tenses.

when a person is one with Akal,he finds self with evil also.

That is state of Turiya Pad where sin and virtue are the same and three qualties are left behind.


Who told you that das was discrinmated upon by Nihungs due to caste.

They rather were offended by das for siding with so called outcastes.


So say thanks to Akal and reading of Dasham Granth,which is in language of outacastes with word like Burhh and Luund etc. from Dravidian background.

After givng Shaheedi.We have over thwon the upper castes off.

See the pictures of Bhai Sangat Singh Ji(from Chamar Ancesters) and Bhai Jeevan Singh Ji(of Churha Ancesters) on our website.

all due to mercy of of Akal Mahakal(the demigod of Chandalas had same name but Dasham Granth told that true God has such atributes of Mahakal) our Jathedar is also an out caste  or a Vartya.

Shiromani Panth Akali Budhadal - History

all of us after baptism are Sodis gotra Singh Jati one caste and one surname.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 27, 2007)

Gurfateh

Dear Brother Sherab,

sorry for staying off the forum for long time.

anyway in Sikhs salvation is not abtained after some one dies.

It is obtained while one is alive.


As per in budhism what das is aware that when mind is free from sorrow nirwana or Salvation is obtained.

That is not as such in us.

In us when our ego mind is eliminated and our mind is one with universal mind(mind of God).We are salvaged.

in that state we find

ਪੰਨਾ 1157, ਸਤਰ 13
ਪ੍ਰਭ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਈ ॥੮॥੩॥੬॥
प्रभ नानक नानक नानक मई ॥८॥३॥६॥
Parabẖ Nānak Nānak Nānak ma&shy;ī. ||8||3||6||
Nanak, Nanak, Nanak, has merged into the Image of God. ||8||3||6||
ਮਃ 5   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

There are
simlar verse unto Bhagat Kabir Sahib and and Bhagat Namdev Ji.

in that state we are above evil and good.

Then we find all wrong and evil also as our own(not the individual but God) deeds.

compilation of such work is compoed in Dasham Granth Sahib. 

As your are aware that there is hinyana in budhism which was absobed in India but is Back vide Ambedkar and Vipasyan doing Goenaka Ji.

opposer of Dasham Granth are Hinyanas of Sikhs while supporters are like Mahayana(who have faith in God).

And Mahayana suruvived and is still surviving in Indian since last thousands years or more.

In Leh,Lahaul,Sikkim,Arunanchal and Tripura.


As per Mahayana Guru Nanak Dev Ji Sahib are second coming of Maha Padam Sambhav(to took budhism to tibbet and ahead) and so is called Nanak Lama.

In way to Leh from Kargil,we have a Gurudwara called Pather Sahib.Pather is stone and local Lamas(budhsist monks) discovered this stone as while making the raod,they were not been reomved.Lamas told that as Nanak Lama Sat there so they should not be removed.


some other Gurudwaras are located a indo tibbet borber in Sikkim,care of which is taken by Lepcha Budhists natives of Sikkim.

WEbsite of Dasham Granth is as follows

Sri Dasam Granth Sahib
http://www.patshahi10.org 

To understand bani of Tenth Master is alsways good for a new convert.

Akal Bless.


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## vijaydeep Singh (Nov 27, 2007)

Gurfateh


Sukhmani Brar said:


> sat shri akal,
> 
> I have a few questions for followers of Dasam Granth.
> 
> ...


 
Dear miss Berar,

Answer 1.

The way Deardars do this thing so were many yogis and peers doing the same as it is writtan in Chartropakhyan.

Yes for those who live in cushy life never go to slums or rural area or say are not the fighetr internaly or externaly such things will be strange.

we have to deicide. to be Sikh resreicted to Gurudwara like Jains and budhists in past or say Vashavnite Brahmins.Or do we have to be aggresive over our potential foe.

Should das again post good chreavcter certificate for Kala Afghana Ji?
Answer 2.

Guru is in all and does all.One who does not see Guru in all does cribs for good or bad.

ਪੰਨਾ 178, ਸਤਰ 2http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=178&punjabi=t&id=7438
ਕਰਣ ਕਰਾਵਨਹਾਰ ਸੁਆਮੀ ॥
करण करावनहार सुआमी ॥
Karaṇ karāvanhār su&shy;āmī.
Our Lord and Master is the One who acts, and causes others to act.
ਮਃ 5   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]ਪੰਨਾ 184, ਸਤਰ 5http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=184&punjabi=t&id=7786
ਕਰਣ ਕਰਾਵਨਹਾਰ ਦਇਆਲ ॥
करण करावनहार दइआल ॥
Karaṇ karāvanhār ḏa&shy;i&shy;āl.
The Merciful Lord is the Doer, the Cause of causes.
ਮਃ 5   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]ਪੰਨਾ 189, ਸਤਰ 9http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=189&punjabi=t&id=8069
ਕਰਨ ਕਰਾਵਨ ਕਰਤਾ ਸੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
करन करावन करता सोई ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Karan karāvan karṯā so&shy;ī. ||1|| rahā&shy;o.
The Creator is the Doer, the Cause of causes. ||1||Pause||
ਮਃ 5   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]ਪੰਨਾ 202, ਸਤਰ 14http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=202&punjabi=t&id=8792
ਕਰਨ ਕਰਾਵਨ ਪੂਰਨ ਸਚੁ ਸੋਇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
करन करावन पूरन सचु सोइ ॥ रहाउ ॥
Karan karāvan pūran sacẖ so&shy;ė. Rahā&shy;o.
That Perfect True Lord is the Doer, the Cause of causes. ||Pause||
ਮਃ 5   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]ਪੰਨਾ 208, ਸਤਰ 14http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=208&punjabi=t&id=9005
ਕਰਨ ਕਰਾਵਨ ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਤੁਮ ਹੀ ਤੁਮ ਸਮਰਥ ਨਾਹੀ ਅਨ ਹੋਰੀ ॥
करन करावन सभ किछु तुम ही तुम समरथ नाही अन होरी ॥
Karan karāvan sabẖ kicẖẖ ṯum hī ṯum samrath nāhī an horī.
You are the Doer, the Cause of causes - You are everything. You are All-powerful; there is no other than You.
ਮਃ 5   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

so dear doughter Ghugga is yet to be one with one with God.When we are one with God ie Salvaged whiel being alive.We understand what does Tenth Master wrote.


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