# Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afghana



## techsingh (Feb 26, 2014)

is there english translations of Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afghana works?


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 27, 2014)

No.


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## Chaan Pardesi (Feb 27, 2014)

It is not hard to translate his works.I have done some pages..but problem is when people are lost for sensible  resposne, it becomes "venom spitting"!!While observing silently the venom against the seating of the Guru is forgotten or not seen.

I think using words like venom spitting is an avoidance tactic for the blind followers...only those who are involved will feel that it is making fun, and thus they do not want to be the subject of that!!!

kala afghana is also "venom spitting" largely!So any point in sharing his works?I wonder.


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## Ishna (Feb 27, 2014)

It would be a great service to share some of his work translated into English.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Feb 27, 2014)

Sikhs have just too many Bukkal:happysingh::happysingh: de sapp (snakes sitting in lap)..so venom spitting is sure to happen..sad.


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## Chaan Pardesi (Feb 27, 2014)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> Sikhs have just too many Bukkal:happysingh::happysingh: de sapp (snakes sitting in lap)..so venom spitting is sure to happen..sad.



Indeed Giani Ji.This is the trouble.many complain they have nopt read this nor that to decide.Then when these works are translate into English,m they soon realise their cat bag is slit opnened they then want litmus test and  science tests!l;lege that it is venom spitting!!!

These fellows are followers of false books, when they see being exposed they adopt teh avoidance syndrome!By any which means!

Challenging the sole authority of the Guru Granth sahib is a venom spitting they dont see.,..they dont hear,they do not to know.....

On a different matter unless the charitters are exposed  and translated and read by  people , no understanding will take place, no knowledge will be shared and understood.let people read,let people see themselves, let them then decide wher ethey stand with such false boooks planted among sikhs.

These Bukkal de sap, quiqte rightly exposed themselves when they found a way to claim "venom spitting"Translating became "venom spitting for these sap types.

I have challenged that prove me wrong in the translations and I will apologise openly!

but none have that motivation to do, isntead they venom spit against the Guru Grenath sahib!

Indeed you are right such are bukal de sap!

I have no objections, but I disagree with the Moderators on stopping such threads.I would have prefered they stopped the personalisation/personalised attacks and attemts to stop any further exposure of these charitters  to the people......rather than stop the  discussion.


The more charitters are traanslated and exposed  of their real content, the more enlightenment among people....sadly, another day  won for venom spitting rather than klnowledge to understand.

Pity, these people had no facts, nor dates to back up....apart from litmus papers...one for a penny available down the street!

I am in the process of translating more, I will share it...dont like it dont read them!Ok, some times cowardice exits--some people  pretend to stand for sikhi...but the litmus test fails..when exposed.Good luck to those who beleiv it is Gurus bani!!!The end of sikhi  willo come much faster with such around!


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## spnadmin (Feb 27, 2014)

Chan ji

With folded hands I ask you not to continue the discussion of the Charittars on this thread. The Charittar thread has been closed. This is a different topic. The issue as I saw it was that 2 of you were over-reacting to statements of the other that each of you took out of context and misunderstood - not knowing each other very well.

Whenever we are unsure what someone means it is better to ask for clarification.

So no more about litmus tests etc. Please!  I do not want to close another thread. 

The "venom spitting" phrase is something that opponents of Kala Afghana, and opponents of his allies, use all the time to defame critics of Dasam Granth. Let us not adopt their language, now that we know who started using the term in the first place. Thank you.


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## techsingh (Feb 27, 2014)

if no translation exists. Is there a highlight of his objections?


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## Chaan Pardesi (Feb 27, 2014)

with folded hands I take leave.I cannot subscribe to what I do not see as a fair platform, an honest platform, esspecially when TRUTH  becomes unpalatable for many...avoidance is best way out!!When truth lost..it is time to stand with the Guru, than here.


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## aristotle (Feb 27, 2014)

@Chann Pardesi Ji,
I don't know if I should interrupt a conversation between senior forum members, but I don't think any regular member here supports the Triya and Chandi Charittars. It is not even that we are keen on brushing things under the carpet. In fact, what is there to discuss about the Charittars that we don't already know? They are poorly articulated porn stories and some anti-Gurmat forces have been giving convoluted arguments to get them validated as the Sikh religious scripture parallel to the living Guru, even the SGPC has issued a letter to remove the Charittars and Hikayatan from its version of the alleged Dasam Granth. So, discussing Charittars individually would be like giving more airtime to them, a further disgrace to greatness of the Tenth Master.


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## Abneet (Feb 27, 2014)

Can someone give me a quick summary about Kala Aghana and what he aimed to do? I know he was against the RM and talked about mythological and ritualism in Sikhi that's about it. Was he against many of Sikhism teachings?


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## spnadmin (Feb 27, 2014)

Abneet ji

Let's hold off on your question for now. At this moment I want to make something very clear.

Sikh Philosophy Network is one of the few places on the Internet where open discussion of Kala Afghana, Professor Darshan Singh, Professor Sarbjit Singh Dhunda, Bibi Jugrag Kaur, Joginder Singh Editor in Chief of Rozana Spokesman, Harjinder Singh Dilgeer and many others is encouraged and actually takes place.

No one here is walking away from an honest portrayal of their point of view. Instead I am requiring that a thread stay on topic, and that an accurate context is preserved for discussion.

That some Sikhs are "spitting venom" or "dividing the panth" has always been flung at the personalities listed above by their opponents -- who by and large are supporters of the Dasam Granth. Not the other way around. Even longtime members and leaders of SPN have been flayed publicly because they support Kala Afghana and the others, or they tolerate discussion of their views. That is the historical context for all this venom spitting. So I ask that the term not be used to criticize SPN or individuals who are supporters of open discussion just because they disagree on specifics. 

Today, even in the US and Canada, not to mention India, when sangats wish to hear Professor Darshan Singh speak or listen to the views of Professor Dhunda, they have to send private invitations by email or locate the discussions outside the perimeters of their gurdwara campuses. Why? Because opponents have been known to try to intimidate gurdwara management committees, round up crowds from far and wide to demonstrate on the streets, or even storm sangats where they incite physical violence, take up shastars and wrench turbans from the heads of the "enemies of the panth." I am unaware of any situation where a supporter of Kala Afghana or Professor Dhunda ever promoted and organized such irrational behavior.

Fair play is the order of the day here at SPN, even if it is not elsewhere. So are fair words.


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## spnadmin (Feb 27, 2014)

Abneet ji

Please Google either "Kala Afghana" or "Gurbax Singh Kala Afghana" and do some research. Also you can find a few threads on his views here by searching SPN.


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## spnadmin (Feb 28, 2014)

Abneet ji

Here is one of the more comprehensive discussions at SPN on Kala Afghana

*Kala Afghana - An Adi Granth Purist?* at http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/306-kala-afghana-an-adi-granth-purist.html

techsingh ji

In the same thread you can read some English translations of the thinking of Kala Afghana, posted by forum member hardeep singh. He did not give url's for these writings and I suspect that is because they are his personal translations from material by Kala Afghana that was never posted to the Internet in the first place. One can find on the Internet Kala Afghana's several volumes of thought at the "Scribd" site, but only in Punjabi.

Other threads here at SPN on Kala Afghana include  


Why Should we support Kala Afghana 	http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/3261-why-should-we-support-kala-afghana.html

Kala Afghana: Discussion Redux 	http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/25205-kala-afghana-discussion-redux.html

Question for Kala Afghana Supporters http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/18277-question-for-kala-afghana-supporters.html


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