# Was Rajneesh The Right Person To Translate Japji Sahib?



## Veeru (Nov 9, 2006)

I saw a very nasty video by Rajneesh that it would be shameful for a Sikh to even post it here. I have heard from many people that Rajneesh has described Japji Sahib very well. I am wondering if people agree that Rajneesh was not the appropriate person to do vyakhya on Japji Sahib. I don't believe he was a spiritual.


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## Arvind (Nov 10, 2006)

If you are really interested, then you need to spend more time to read and understood Osho Rajneesh well... and not just comment based on one or a few videos or books.


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## Hai_Bhi_Sach (Jan 19, 2007)

> *Re: Was Rajneesh the right person to translate Japji Sahib?*
> If you are really interested, then you need to spend more time to read and understood Osho Rajneesh well... and not just comment based on one or a few videos or books.


 
Well said Arvind ji. I second it.


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## vaapaaraa (Jan 19, 2007)

he had told that only Guru Nanak Ji was enlightened, and the other Gurus were ordinary ppl, he was widely attacked by Sikhs and but got saved from death.

Dont follow fools like Osho. He used to read all day in library, thats where he got his "knowledge".


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## Arvind (Jan 19, 2007)

*Question:* How many of members have heard or read Osho's translation first hand... without getting influenced by his other trains of thoughts.


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## Veeru (Jan 19, 2007)

Arvind said:


> If you are really interested, then you need to spend more time to read and understood Osho Rajneesh well... and not just comment based on one or a few videos or books.


 
Let's put it this way. Spirituality is like pure water. Even a single drop of dirty water in it destroys it all...


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## Tejwant Singh (Jan 19, 2007)

Rajneesh was a charlaton and a criminal. His sect OSHO had plans to poison the city water system is Oregon. Fortunatley they were caught before the crime took place. They commited other crimes. His right hand adviser was jailed for bribery. Free sex/ group sex were mode de jour at his Ashrams. In order to avoid prison, Rajneesh agreed to be deported.

With the character like this, it becomes an insult if one claims to interpret Guru Nanak's Gurbani.

Lotus can grow in muck however not all kinds of muck can make a lotus grow. Rajneesh belonged to the latter.I have listened to Rajneesh's interpretation of Japji. Nothing to write home about. Too much Hindutva in it.

Tejwant


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## A_Learner (Jan 6, 2008)

VaheguruSeekr said:


> Rajneesh was a charlaton and a criminal. His sect OSHO had plans to poison the city water system is Oregon. Fortunatley they were caught before the crime took place. They commited other crimes. His right hand adviser was jailed for bribery. Free sex/ group sex were mode de jour at his Ashrams. In order to avoid prison, Rajneesh agreed to be deported.
> 
> With the character like this, it becomes an insult if one claims to interpret Guru Nanak's Gurbani.
> 
> ...




Folks, it is very easy to criticize somebody. And especially those who are spiritually connected. Whatever character Rajneesh had should not be the question, your intension should be to find out whether he did a good job in explaining the meaning of Japji Sahib or not.... (A true soul can be of a sex worker, while a filthy one can be of pundit )

And I think he has done an excellent job. I have listened to his translation and, from my experience, I can say that his viyakha was completely lucid and comprehensive. One of the best I have heard. 
Guru Nanak's banis have extra-ordinary depth, comparatively.  And he has done well in exploring that.

At the end of the translation you become a bigger fan of Guru Nanak's explanations than Rajneesh. 
I think his translation should be recorded done in English too.


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## Archived_member2 (Jan 6, 2008)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all!

Rajneesh Jee was a professor of philosophy. He was a great orator. God blessed him with higher consciousness than usual. God also arranged great Satsangs through him.

Explaining Japujee is not restricted to ignorant Baabaas only. All spiritually progressing persons get fascinated with its Wisdom.

For the true Gurus JAPU or Simran of Naam or Sabad is first and must to realize Truth. Osho Jee skipped but the word JAPU explaining Japujee. I wonder. Why?


Balbir Singh


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## simpy (Jan 6, 2008)

> Rajneesh was a charlaton and a criminal. His sect OSHO had plans to poison the city water system is Oregon. Fortunatley they were caught before the crime took place. They commited other crimes. His right hand adviser was jailed for bribery. Free sex/ group sex were mode de jour at his Ashrams. In order to avoid prison, Rajneesh agreed to be deported.


 
*no wonder Veer Balbir Ji is in his favor:*



			
				Balbir Singh said:
			
		

> He was a great orator. God blessed him with higher consciousness than usual. God also arranged great Satsangs through him.




*me neech cannot thank Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Sahibaan enough for blessing us with Gurbani-DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB*

*me neech is humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness*


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## Archived_Member1 (Jan 6, 2008)

VaheguruSeekr said:


> Rajneesh was a charlaton and a criminal. His sect OSHO had plans to poison the city water system is Oregon.




they also succeeded in poisoning the food in 10 restaurants with salmonella bacteria...  making 800 people sick and hospitalizing at least 50.  it was the first bioterrorism attack on american soil.

great guy, that rajneesh.  :}

so what if he translated/interpreted japji sahib.  so have many SIKH scholars with less dirty backgrounds.


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## simpy (Jan 6, 2008)

*'Translating Japji' IS THE TRICK TO ATTRACT FOLLOWERS. THAT'S ALL.*

*A show off of borrowed knowledge AS HIS OWN.......*


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## Sikh80 (Jan 7, 2008)

Even Mr. Khushwant singh has also made his own translation and has stated many things about jap ji sahib. Translation ,in a democracy, is free for all with no strings attached. Where is the risk? 

Osho/Rajnish has a good following in India. There are many centres in almost al big cities.


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## bhupipadam (Jan 7, 2008)

PCJS said:


> I saw a very nasty video by Rajneesh that it would be shameful for a Sikh to even post it here. I have heard from many people that Rajneesh has described Japji Sahib very well. I am wondering if people agree that Rajneesh was not the appropriate person to do vyakhya on Japji Sahib. I don't believe he was a spiritual.
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> ----------------------------------------


*Dear Gursikhs,*
*Had any one created any thing or write any thing that should explain Gurbani and osho rajneesh did that in Japji Sahib,s translation in front of giani zail singh. we are all bound imperfectionist bcoz no body is complete and who will make normal humans to understand guru,s bani like japji sahib. dont say who did it just read it and how well he explained it that should be the point of consideration. by talking on this kind of issue we are again into personalisation process as it was 500 years back. Gurus themselves did enter bani of different saints into Guru Granth Sahib symbolises that only the word in the praise of God will be considered nothing else,then why this kind of personalised question like he was eligible for describing Jap ji sahib. Do u people agree that we ourself are eligible for talking like this for any one like osho or some one else or even me or urself ,,,, why we are talking non sense for nothing just forget the word criticise and learn the word meditation , start doing it u ll find hidden quotes by God that ll make ur mouth shut and u ll stop criticising any thing for ever . criticising will bring ur moral down in spirituality bcoz God never ever did any thing wrong till date ....... rest is all upto ur knowledgability if u could understand silence of God. Gurfateh......*


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## Shamsheer Singh (Oct 17, 2008)

vaapaaraa said:


> he had told that only Guru Nanak Ji was enlightened, and the other Gurus were ordinary ppl, he was widely attacked by Sikhs and but got saved from death.
> 
> Dont follow fools like Osho. He used to read all day in library, thats where he got his "knowledge".



Can u shre the proof where Acharya Rajnish says that only Guru Nanak Sahib was enlightened and others wern't...When you claim something you claims it with proofs. Otherwise ur claims is nothing but a VOID!


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## pk70 (Oct 17, 2008)

*Osho was very learned person and he grasped pretty much well what he studied, he could recall from his memory any reference he wanted to. After having said that, I must say, he had no originality to pass on, just like a Math teacher, who can teach but cannot introduce new principles to solve problems. If you read his interpretation of Jap ji, you would never go into the depth Guru Nanak takes you if he is understood. Osho talked on hear say, never stuck to the idea Guru tries to pass on. Just one example, about Guru Nanak, whose mind was embracing Lord as infinite, who leads the soul to move on higher through realm of knowledge, Osho wrote” when Nanak died, he thought about his birth place( as he witnessed that) and imagined flowers were blooming…’ Osho could have done so , not Guru Nanak, there is no place in Jap ji about such whims of mind. I listened  to his tapes, read his books and also especially went through his interpretation of Japji, couldn’t find it  impressive in any way, I mean not even the vast knowledge he displayed in his other discourses or books, it lacked it here. He was a real master of words, many did fall for that art; however, mind fixed on logic and its application as he did, would not get influenced by him in any way. So Sikhs should not feel better that he did any better job in interpreting Jap ji, it can be systematically torn apart by taking support from Guru Nanak’s ideology alone. *


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## A_Learner (Oct 18, 2008)

pk70 said:


> *Osho was very learned person and he grasped pretty much well what he studied, he could recall from his memory any reference he wanted to. After having said that, I must say, he had no originality to pass on, just like a Math teacher, who can teach but cannot introduce new principles to solve problems. If you read his interpretation of Jap ji, you would never go into the depth Guru Nanak takes you if he is understood. Osho talked on hear say, never stuck to the idea Guru tries to pass on. Just one example, about Guru Nanak, whose mind was embracing Lord as infinite, who leads the soul to move on higher through realm of knowledge, Osho wrote” when Nanak died, he thought about his birth place( as he witnessed that) and imagined flowers were blooming…’ Osho could have done so , not Guru Nanak, there is no place in Jap ji about such whims of mind. I listened  to his tapes, read his books and also especially went through his interpretation of Japji, couldn’t find it  impressive in any way, I mean not even the vast knowledge he displayed in his other discourses or books, it lacked it here. He was a real master of words, many did fall for that art; however, mind fixed on logic and its application as he did, would not get influenced by him in any way. So Sikhs should not feel better that he did any better job in interpreting Jap ji, it can be systematically torn apart by taking support from Guru Nanak’s ideology alone. *






I take that you did not like the translation/presentation Rajnesh made.  Well, that is your take. 
But I loved it. There were so much unknown that he was able to explore. I haven't read or heard anybody explaining Japji Sahib with such lucidity. 
I mean who was able to explain Infinity-Infinities!!

I don't think it was done for 'showoff'. And even if it was done to impress you with his knowledge, it should not effect you. I think the intention should be to able understand & assist in meditation.

A story goes a Dhagi-Baba told a woman that her ailing husband will be pain free, if she serves food to Baba for one year and utter waheguru's name during cooking & serving. And she started bringing food to him. She had to cover a lot of distance from her place and cross a river to reach Baba's place. But she meticously & religiously would serve him food while uttering the true name. In the monsoon season, the husband gets well and woman asks Baba to accompany her to their home to bless their place. The river was flooded & woman asks Baba to follow her lead to reach the other side. Now Baba is scared of the river and tells the woman she has gone crazy in asking him to clear the river. But woman persists that she has been doing it for months by uttering waheguru's name, as per Baba's instructions.

Moral of the Story - EVEN if a not so liked/ dishonest person puts you in the right path, it is still good for you and works in your favor. 

We are not debating the personality & character of Rajesh. Whereas we are discussing his oration & transalation of Japji Sahib. And I think he has done it extremly well. So my appreciations to him for exposing certain things my novice mind was not able to conceptualize.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa. Waheguru ji ke fateh.


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## pk70 (Oct 18, 2008)

A_Learner said:


> I take that you did not like the translation/presentation Rajnesh made.  Well, that is your take.
> But I loved it. There were so much unknown that he was able to explore. I haven't read or heard anybody explaining Japji Sahib with such lucidity.
> I mean who was able to explain Infinity-Infinities!!
> 
> ...



*I wrote in favor of his being intelligence, his art of words. Point out a single sentence where I went personal by attacking his personal life ?( who did, it is their take to weigh a person who comments on Spiritual Master like Guru Nanak, so let them have this liberty, please read the name of the thread)*

*I want you to post any thing that is lucid and that impressed you on Jap ji by Osho, you are talking as if you had read all other Japji interpretations; I doubt that; however, if you say so, I take your word but it also proves, under his impression, you have forgot that due to compact form of Japji,  Osho explanation falls short. So please, to prove your impression, post his any interpretation, I shall see how much lucidity is there, keeping in mind Guru Nanak ideology in totality There are many Osho lovers out there who advocate his lower mentality comments about Lord Christ too, so I am aware of that too. I do not need to take his personality to discuss here. If they claim his interpretation is lucid, I have to resist it on the basis of Guru Nanak ideology. Thanks.*


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## A_Learner (Oct 18, 2008)

*I wrote in favor of his being intelligence, his art of words. Point out a single sentence where I went personal by attacking his personal life ?( who did, it is their take to weigh a person who comments on Spiritual Master like Guru Nanak, so let them have this liberty, please read the name of the thread)*

'Name' of thread is - Was Rajneesh The Right Person to Translate Japji Sahib?
*Was Rajneesh The Right Person* - That indicates you are judging the person's knowledge or personal characterter.
There is no animosity here. It seems that you have taken opinion bit personally. My opinion is my view point. And I am certainly free to put forward my opinion.  

*I want you to post any thing that is lucid and that impressed you on Jap ji by Osho,

I provided that in my earlier post about - Infinite Infinities. 


 you are talking as if you had read all other Japji interpretations; I doubt that; 

Again Singh Sahib - This is a discussion forum....you do not even know or have met me. And yet you are able to pass judgment about my knowledge. I have heard/read transalations atleast in double figures- Just FYI. And I wouldn't like to politicize this topic.

I clearly stated that it 'seems' that you did not like the translation. But I did.
You and I have two different minds and the differences are bound to happen. But don't underestimate anybody's knowledge or view point.


however, if you say so, I take your word but it also proves, under his impression, you have forgot that due to compact form of Japji,  Osho explanation falls short.

I am not sure what you meant by 'compact form of Japji'.  And how his explanation falls short.  Guru Nanak's bani as said - 'Baani dhooroh chal keh aayi'. So whether form it is in 'compact or expanded' is again an opinion. 

 So please, to prove your impression, post his any interpretation, I shall see how much lucidity is there, keeping in mind Guru Nanak ideology in totality

Again I have put forth my view point. And it seems you have done that too. 
I am not sure what good will it do by posting a couplet of his translation and you passing out a judgment. 

According to you it is not lucid whereas I think it is.  Lets end it there!!

 There are many Osho lovers out there who advocate his lower mentality comments about Lord Christ too, so I am aware of that too. I do not need to take his personality to discuss here. If they claim his interpretation is lucid, I have to resist it on the basis of Guru Nanak ideology. 

What is Guru Nanak's ideology?  You refer it quite often and seem to understand it well. Please share your thoughts.


Thanks*


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## pk70 (Oct 19, 2008)

A_Learner said:


> *I wrote in favor of his being intelligence, his art of words. Point out a single sentence where I went personal by attacking his personal life ?( who did, it is their take to weigh a person who comments on Spiritual Master like Guru Nanak, so let them have this liberty, please read the name of the thread)*
> 'Name' of thread is - Was Rajneesh The Right Person to Translate Japji Sahib?
> *Was Rajneesh The Right Person* - That indicates you are judging the person's knowledge or personal characterter.
> There is no animosity here. It seems that you have taken opinion bit personally. My opinion is my view point. And I am certainly free to put forward my opinion.
> ...


 *You bring Osho’s interpretation; I shall explain you one by one[/FONT]*. *Thanks*


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## manes_palam (Oct 5, 2015)

if you guys listen to osho  explaining japji sahib
he mainly stressed on '''   nirvichar '
be a non thinker ......   dont swim .......  float .....(hukam wich rehna)
become zero (egoless), empty.........only when you are empty u;ll be filled with parmatma/our real self/amrit(it simple but hard to understand , once understood hard to implement, thats why we need sadhna at amrit vela when mind is not running around / when amrit is easily available to be connected to/and we can live in that essence all day in chardikala.

all the saints and prophets said the same 

their problem ....language / type of people who are listening/ .

osho also explained that they also have another problem , even if satguru want to explain people to be 'silent ' they have to use words( as we are so addicted to it)......... that is the paradox

emptiness is our aim........  even if we say we r spiritual and undertand the concept and practice it .......that moment we say we do, or we did felt that amrit/emptiness for a sec ....next moment we are filled back with same false self of ours/ego..........saying im spiritual is the last highest stage of unspirituality one can attain (from which their is no escape)

their are hundreds of techniques of achieving that goal of emptiness ......through yog or yoga (but never say/feel ur yogi)........naam simran(never say ur sadhak)....do a namaz 5 or 10 times and submit ur self to inner amrit/allah.............(whatever works is the point............and it never work for fanatics as they understand the language part not the real reason behind )  (our one journey stops when we understand the meaning of certain words ..........then the words are of no use / only use is to  remind us..........then the real journey starts to bring that knowledge into practice.

just to conclude theirs one story of nanak ji visiting this village of great fakirs and spiritual people.....whole village was fulll of them .....nanak was sitting under a tree with mardana ji resting ..then someone from the village brought a glass full of milk up to the brim and presented to nanak ji....mardana thought it's a gesture from the saints of the village.....but guru nanak ji plucked a flower and dropped it into the glass(not a single drop came out of glass) and sent it back .......mardana ji could not understand  , then baba nanak ji explained they sent  me a message that our village is full of saints their is no need of another one .....and i sent them a message that im light like a flower wont take much space .....
these saints of the village are heights of ego .....where baba nanak ji is empty/ will take no space ...
if from this story we understand what nanak ji telling us ....
we all in this world can stay together ......
but instead forget all world people of same religion cant stay under one roof......everyone filled with their own stories of prophets / languages / scriptures , without understanding a word of it / making their egos more complex .............and then we say we follow you nanak sahib.

and after all no one wants to shed their ego/personality as since birth we are made of our circumstances/likes/ dislikes / school we went to /friends/nationality /everthing
what kind of life it is when we have no likes/dislikes/no favorite food/no bondage to any maya ...........which is all burden on the inner amrit hidden inside our body.....remove the bondage to the burden .......empty ourself.....and feel the real treasure of that amrit/waheguru throughout......

this is what osho explained in short , which i could not understand from any other source ......

satnam


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## swarn bains (Feb 27, 2016)

Baba Nanak was a philosopher came from the world above. His writing is so deep and complicated that any person cannot translate it easily. Rajneesh was a talkative man, that is what he said about japujee sahib. japujee by baba jee is nine pages and rajneesh translated it in 500 pages, added all tell tales. now let us see how many people can translate or explain in that man words as Nanak sahib did.any one who goes around and around to explain one word, it is not a good explanation. otherside of it is that the orator cannot understand it and goes in circles. my opinion rajneeshes explanation of japu jee is garbage.


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## swarn bains (Feb 27, 2016)

Now about rajneesh. he came to usa. bought a village in oragon state. Made it into an open brothal. people had performed on the roads streets all in the open.  then the govt caught up to him. He was charged and gave him an option. either fight your case or go back to India without any charge. he accepted the later and went back to India. let me explore further. He was {censored} and died in four years. let us assume he was punished and put in jail in the u.s. if he was sitting in jail in u.s. they would have bypassed his heart and saved him even being a prisoner. who is ahead. is he or me. so put your answer to this and rebut it.


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