# Basics Of Sikhi



## techsingh (Jul 3, 2016)

Had anyone watched his videos? Seems like he is promoting brahminism mixed with gurmat (things like dasma duar and etc)Watch the video below he says jesus and mohammad came to meet this baba.


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## Tejwant Singh (Jul 3, 2016)

techsingh said:


> Had anyone watched his videos? Seems like he is promoting brahminism mixed with gurmat (things like dasma duar and etc)Watch the video below he says jesus and mohammad came to meet this baba.



Yes he is. In fact I talked to him via Google about it to no avail. He believes in Dehdhari sants, Hell, Heaven, reincarnation among many other non- Sikhi things which is not only sad but dangerous because he has a  Hindutva mindset in a Sikhi baana. As they say, it is easy to look like a Sikh than become one.

These kinds of people who seek self promotion with Manmat ideas are the real danger to Sikhi because of their exposure through YouTube.

We also have a few members here like him, sad to say. They know who they are.


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## techsingh (Jul 3, 2016)

Tejwant Singh said:


> Yes he is. In fact I talked to him via Google about it to no avail. He believes in Dehdhari sants, Hell, Heaven, reincarnation among many other non- Sikhi things which is not only sad but dangerous because he has a  Hindutva mindset in a Sikhi baana. As they say, it is easy to look like a Sikh than become one.
> 
> These kinds of people who seek self promotion with Manmat ideas are the real danger to Sikhi because of their exposure through YouTube.
> 
> We also have a few members here like him, sad to say. They know who they are.



Thats what I figured he is promoting Hindutva sugarcoating it with little bit of gurmat and confusing people. Watched few of his street parchar videos its really sad that such effort is being wasted by promoting what our Gurus fought against. Rituals,reincarnation,parroting,so called sants, hell, heavan etc.


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## chazSingh (Jul 4, 2016)

techsingh said:


> Thats what I figured he is promoting Hindutva sugarcoating it with little bit of gurmat and confusing people. Watched few of his street parchar videos its really sad that such effort is being wasted by promoting what our Gurus fought against. Rituals,reincarnation,parroting,so called sants, hell, heavan etc.




You mentioned specifically the "dasma duar" ...

by this, do you mean the Dassam Duar? the tenth Gate? 
Do you think the Dassam Duar is brahminism?


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## chazSingh (Jul 4, 2016)

_Do you think Sre Guru Amar Das Ji is wrongfully promoting brahminism below? He Talks of the Dassam Duar..


Center your awareness on seva-selfless service-and focus your consciousness on the Word of the Shabad._
_Subduing your ego, you shall find a lasting peace, and your emotional attachment to Maya will be dispelled. ||1||
I am a sacrifice, my soul is a sacrifice, I am totally devoted to the True Guru._
_Through the Guru's Teachings, the Divine Light has dawned; I sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, night and day. ||1||Pause||
Search your body and mind, and find the Name.
Restrain your wandering mind, and keep it in check.
Night and day, sing the Songs of the Guru's Bani; worship the Lord with intuitive devotion. ||2||
Within this body are countless objects.
The Gurmukh attains Truth, and comes to see them.
Beyond the nine gates, the Tenth Gate is found, and liberation is obtained. The Unstruck Melody of the Shabad vibrates. ||3||
True is the Master, and True is His Name.
By Guru's Grace, He comes to dwell within the mind._
Full Shabad: SikhiToTheMAX - Enabling Gurmat Knowledge


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## chazSingh (Jul 4, 2016)

And What about Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji...is he also _wrongfully promoting brahminism below. He also mentions Dassam Duar... I have highlighted some of the shabad for you.._


_The union of air, water and fire_
*the body is the play-thing of the fickle and unsteady intellect.
It has nine doors, and then there is the Tenth Gate.
Reflect upon this and understand it, O wise one. ||1||*
_The Lord is the One who speaks, teaches and listens.
One who contemplates his own self is truly wise. ||1||Pause||
The body is dust; the wind speaks through it._
_Understand, O wise one, who has died._
_Awareness, conflict and ego have died,
ut the One who sees does not die. ||2||
For the sake of it, you journey to sacred shrines and holy rivers;_
_but this priceless jewel is within your own heart._
*The Pandits, the religious scholars, read and read endlessly; they stir up arguments and controversies,
but they do not know the secret deep within. ||3||*
_I have not died - that evil nature within me has died.
The One who is pervading everywhere does not die.
S*ays Nanak, the Guru has revealed God to me,**
and now I see that there is no such thing as birth or death. *_

Please be careful what you call Brahminism...
The human Body is the same for everyone...The same secrets of the human body belong to everyone, no matter what religion or belief structure...
Dassam Duar exists...The body is the temple and the gateway to Waheguru...everything is there, in your body ready to be explored and discovered with the Aid of Guru Shabad

God Bless...hope this helps you understad that Dassam Duar is universal,


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## techsingh (Jul 4, 2016)

Am not calling hindus bad by no means they have the right to do as they please and everyone else. 
Yes. Endless chanting is bramhanism which is against Gurmat. You took a literal meaing of the shabad. Post the gurmukhi version. I think guru ji is implying that you should Listen to the truth, live the truth, speak the truth then your "dasam duar"will open. Its just terminology guru used to explain things to a hindu mindset.


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## chazSingh (Jul 4, 2016)

techsingh said:


> Am not calling hindus bad by no means they have the right to do as they please and everyone else.
> Yes. Endless chanting is bramhanism which is against Gurmat. You took a literal meaing of the shabad. Post the gurmukhi version. I think guru ji is implying that you should Listen to the truth, live the truth, speak the truth then your "dasam duar"will open. Its just terminology guru used to explain things to a hindu mindset.




Then don't endlessly chant...
i don;t think i've ever heard basics of sikhi tell anyone to endlessly Chant anything...

If i told you to stop telling your family that you 'love' them....would you stop? why should you stop...
If you feel the love, then why wouldn't you tell them...and express it with words and actions?

In the same way, people speak Shabad...and meditate on Shabad because they feel the explosion of love inside them, and then their mouths utter "waheguru" or whatever...
they can also serve humanity with that same feeling and devotion and love...because Waheguru is in all.
Why not do both? server humanity...like you said "live the truth" .... the truth being, that everything is Waheguru and beyond...
Why not go within and meditate on Waheguru...and let Him pull you within, deep inside yourself where you become aware of Him... 

We should be happy people are talking of Waheguru...and looking for Him, Seeking Him, rather than picking fault at every little thing...

Just my opinion...

God Bless


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## chazSingh (Jul 4, 2016)

techsingh said:


> Am not calling hindus bad by no means they have the right to do as they please and everyone else.
> Yes. Endless chanting is bramhanism which is against Gurmat. You took a literal meaing of the shabad. Post the gurmukhi version. I think guru ji is implying that you should Listen to the truth, live the truth, speak the truth then your "dasam duar"will open. Its just terminology guru used to explain things to a hindu mindset.



One more thing ji...

Beauty of Gurbani is, that if you put into practice...you can prove to yourself what is real and what isn't...

Gur Ji says, come and find out for yourself...then you will know if Dassam Duar or anything else is true...


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## Kully (Jul 4, 2016)

techsingh said:


> I think guru ji is implying that you should Listen to the truth, live the truth, speak the truth then your "dasam duar"will open. Its just terminology guru used to explain things to a hindu mindset.



Listening  to, living to and speaking the truth have nothing to do with dasam dwar. They are to do with body conscience. The dasam dwar is a spiritual conscience. 

Guru Granth Sahib teaches:

_Saarang, Fifth Mehla:
Now I am rid of my skepticism and sorrow.
I have abandoned and forsaken all other efforts, and come to the Sanctuary of the True Guru. ||1||Pause||
I have attained total perfection, and all my works are perfectly completed; the illness of egotism has been totally eradicated.
Millions of sins are destroyed in an instant; meeting with the Guru, _I chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. _||1||
Subduing the five thieves, he Guru has made them my slaves; my mind has become stable and steady and fearless.
It does not come or go in reincarnation; it does not waver or wander anywhere. O Nanak, my empire is eternal. ||2||24||47||_

Chanting the name of the Lord is not brahmanism.


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## Kully (Jul 4, 2016)

techsingh said:


> Had anyone watched his videos? Seems like he is promoting brahminism mixed with gurmat




I like his videos. He is a very educated sikh and although he does not come across as elegant or deliver with a panache, in his talks, he does give the core message that can be understood by many.

Could you please elaborate on what brahmanism he is promoting please Sir?


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## Original (Jul 4, 2016)

Hi Chaz - hope all is well !

I've copy paste for you and techsingh the following shabd, which I feel is relevant to the discussion at hand. Equally, I'm mindful of the views and verdicts of others and mean no disrespect.

Special attention is drawn to the large font corresponding the colour text !

Enjoy -

*ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ [mahalla 3]*

॥ *ਇਸੁ ਗੁਫਾ ਮਹਿ ਅਖੁਟ ਭੰਡਾਰਾ* ॥ Within this cave, there is an inexhaustible treasure

*ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਰਿ ਅਲਖ ਅਪਾਰਾ* ॥ Within this cave, the Invisible and Infinite Lord abides.

*ਆਪੇ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੈ ਆਪੇ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਆਪੁ ਵੰਞਾਵਣਿਆ* ॥੧॥ He Himself is hidden, and He Himself is revealed; through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, selfishness and conceit are eliminated. ||1||

*ਹਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਵਣਿਆ* ॥ I am a sacrifice, my soul is a sacrifice, to those who enshrine the Ambrosial Naam, the Name of the Lord, within their minds.

*ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਹਾ ਰਸੁ ਮੀਠਾ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਆਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ* ॥
The taste of the Ambrosial Naam is very sweet! Through the Guru's Teachings, drink in this Ambrosial Nectar. ||1||Pause||

* ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰਿ ਬਜਰ ਕਪਾਟ ਖੁਲਾਇਆ ॥* Subduing egotism, the rigid doors are opened.

*ਨਾਮੁ ਅਮੋਲਕੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥* The Priceless Naam is obtained by Guru's Grace.

*ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਪਾਏ ਕੋਈ ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੨॥* Without the Shabad, the Naam is not  By Guru's Grace, it is implanted within the mind. ||2||

* ਗੁਰ ਗਿਆਨ ਅੰਜਨੁ ਸਚੁ ਨੇਤ੍ਰੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥* The Guru has applied the true ointment of spiritual wisdom to my eyes.

*ਅੰਤਰਿ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਅਗਿਆਨੁ ਅੰਧੇਰੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥* Deep within, the Divine Light has dawned, and the darkness of ignorance has been dispelled

* ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲੀ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਿ ਸੋਭਾ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੩॥* My light has merged into the Light;
my mind has surrendered, and I am blessed with Glory in the Court of the Lord. ||3||

*ਸਰੀਰਹੁ ਭਾਲਣਿ ਕੋ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਜਾਏ ॥* Those who look outside the body, searching for the Lord,

*ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਲਹੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਵੇਗਾਰਿ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਏ ॥* shall not receive the Naam; they shall instead be forced to suffer the terrible pains of slavery.

*ਮਨਮੁਖ ਅੰਧੇ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਘਿਰਿ ਆਇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵਥੁ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੪॥* The blind, self-willed manmukhs do not understand; but when they return once again to their own home, then, as Gurmukh, they find the genuine article. ||4||

*ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਸਚਾ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਏ ॥ ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੈਲੁ ਜਾਏ ॥* By Guru's Grace, the True Lord is found
Within your mind and body, see the Lord, and the filth of egotism shall depart.

*ਬੈਸਿ ਸੁਥਾਨਿ ਸਦ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਸਚੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਮਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੫॥* Sitting in that place, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord forever, and be absorbed in the True Word of the Shabad. ||5||

*ਨਉ ਦਰ ਠਾਕੇ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਹਾਏ ॥* Those who close off the nine gates, and restrain the wandering mind,

*ਦਸਵੈ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਪਾਏ ॥* come to dwell in the Home of the Tenth Gate.

*ਓਥੈ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦ ਵਜਹਿ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੬॥* There, the Unstruck Melody of the Shabad vibrates day and night. Through the Guru's Teachings, the Shabad is heard. ||6||

*ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਆਨੇਰਾ ॥* Without the Shabad, there is only darkness within.

*ਨ ਵਸਤੁ ਲਹੈ ਨ ਚੂਕੈ ਫੇਰਾ ॥* The genuine article is not found, and the cycle of reincarnation does not end.

*ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਥਿ ਕੁੰਜੀ ਹੋਰਤੁ ਦਰੁ ਖੁਲੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਣਿਆ II* The key is in the hands of the True Guru; no one else can open this door. By perfect destiny, He is met. ||7||

*ਗੁਪਤੁ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਤੂੰ ਸਭਨੀ ਥਾਈ ॥* You are the hidden and the revealed in all places.

*ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਮਿਲਿ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਈ ॥* Receiving Guru's Grace, this understanding is obtained.

*ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹਿ ਸਦਾ ਤੂੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੮॥੨੪॥੨੫॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 124*} O Nanak, praise the Naam forever; as Gurmukh, enshrine it within the mind. ||8||24||25||


Goodnight n Godbless


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## techsingh (Jul 4, 2016)

Original said:


> Hi Chaz - hope all is well !
> 
> I've copy paste for you and techsingh the following shabd, which I feel is relevant to the discussion at hand. Equally, I'm mindful of the views and verdicts of others and mean no disrespect.
> 
> ...



Again your taking literal meaning of the shabad. This is not my understanding of it.


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## techsingh (Jul 4, 2016)

Kully said:


> I like his videos. He is a very educated sikh and although he does not come across as elegant or deliver with a panache, in his talks, he does give the core message that can be understood by many.
> 
> Could you please elaborate on what brahmanism he is promoting please Sir?



Reincarnation, heaven, hell, sants and etc. mostly i think because people take literal meanings and don't understand 
ਮੁਹਾਵਰੇ.


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## techsingh (Jul 4, 2016)

Kully said:


> Listening  to, living to and speaking the truth have nothing to do with dasam dwar. They are to do with body conscience. The dasam dwar is a spiritual conscience.
> 
> Guru Granth Sahib teaches:
> 
> ...



Its your understanding of the shabad not mine. Living the truth is higher. My understanding of dasam duar is that it means peace of mind, happiness. Its just terminology used by guru ji to explain things to hindu, yogi type of mindset.


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## techsingh (Jul 4, 2016)

chazSingh said:


> One more thing ji...
> 
> Beauty of Gurbani is, that if you put into practice...you can prove to yourself what is real and what isn't...
> 
> Gur Ji says, come and find out for yourself...then you will know if Dassam Duar or anything else is true...



Exactly but my definition of dasam duar from a gurmat prespective is not same as yours. For me it means peace of mind, happiness by practcing gurbani. I think key to understanding gurbani is that you must understand ਮੁਹਾਵਰੇ idioms.


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## techsingh (Jul 4, 2016)

Another member here on spn findingmyway explaind the meaning of tenth gate very well i think
"The dasam dwar is not mystical but refers to the brain. The brain is the site of consciousness, integrating physical and emotional information and controlling how we behave both physically, morally and spiritually. Therefore the brain is the door to our consciousness. The Guru's always tried to make everything accessible to all regardless of their background so it doesn't make sense that such an important door should be so mysterious. Without a brain, spirituality cannot be accessed so we all have a dasam dwar. However, the choice is whether to open it to spirituality and a Sikh way of life."


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## Harry Haller (Jul 5, 2016)

techsingh said:


> Its your understanding of the shabad not mine. Living the truth is higher. My understanding of dasam duar is that it means peace of mind, happiness. Its just terminology used by guru ji to explain things to hindu, yogi type of mindset.



I have always felt the same, is there anyone that feels substantially different? Is the Dasam Duar no more than the peaking of the state of Naam?


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## Kully (Jul 5, 2016)

techsingh said:


> Reincarnation, heaven, hell, sants and etc. mostly i think because people take literal meanings and don't understand
> ਮੁਹਾਵਰੇ.



Sir, reincarnation is not exclusive to brahmanism. Heaven and hell are abrahamic concepts, which are rigid. Heaven and hell in Gurmat is not rigid, they are not permanent abodes. Neither are they exclusively brahmanism. 

Guru Granth Sahib tells and warns us about heaven and hell, and not in a metaphorical or literal sense. There are many lines where "narak" is mentioned. How could such a warning of a metaphorical or literal hell make sense? 

Similarly, Guru Granth Sahib tells us about reincarnation. repeatedly. And not in a metaphorical or literal sense either. But in actual practice. Again these are not exclusively Brahman concepts. They may be, along with other concepts in Gurmat be shared or found , partially or in totalility, in other belief systems, but to say that these concepts may not have any place with Gurmat, because they are found elsewhere seems a little on the preposterous side.


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## Kully (Jul 5, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> I have always felt the same, is there anyone that feels substantially different? Is the Dasam Duar no more than the peaking of the state of Naam?



Sir, do you feel there is a "peaking" of Naam? I would assert that Naam as is Waheguru, is ever-expanding.


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## Kully (Jul 5, 2016)

techsingh said:


> Another member here on spn findingmyway explaind the meaning of tenth gate very well i think
> "The dasam dwar is not mystical but refers to the brain. The brain is the site of consciousness, integrating physical and emotional information and controlling how we behave both physically, morally and spiritually. Therefore the brain is the door to our consciousness. The Guru's always tried to make everything accessible to all regardless of their background so it doesn't make sense that such an important door should be so mysterious. Without a brain, spirituality cannot be accessed so we all have a dasam dwar. However, the choice is whether to open it to spirituality and a Sikh way of life."



Sir, this is quite interesting and thank you for sharing it. The dasam dwar cannot be a physical gate as it would be no different from the other 9 gates of the body. Well certainly not enough to afford it an seperate mention in Gurbani, and an exalted status in Gurmat.

"Mysterious"  may be a little inappropriate to describe the dasam dwar, as Guru Granth Sahib does not cloud it under a veil of secrecy or mystery. Instead Guru Sahib desctribes it a goal, or stage to be worked for. Guru Sahib is very explicit when talking about Dasam Dwar in Anand Sahib.


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## techsingh (Jul 5, 2016)

Kully said:


> Sir, reincarnation is not exclusive to brahmanism. Heaven and hell are abrahamic concepts, which are rigid. Heaven and hell in Gurmat is not rigid, they are not permanent abodes. Neither are they exclusively brahmanism.
> 
> Guru Granth Sahib tells and warns us about heaven and hell, and not in a metaphorical or literal sense. There are many lines where "narak" is mentioned. How could such a warning of a metaphorical or literal hell make sense?
> 
> Similarly, Guru Granth Sahib tells us about reincarnation. repeatedly. And not in a metaphorical or literal sense either. But in actual practice. Again these are not exclusively Brahman concepts. They may be, along with other concepts in Gurmat be shared or found , partially or in totalility, in other belief systems, but to say that these concepts may not have any place with Gurmat, because they are found elsewhere seems a little on the preposterous side.




Tell me your definition of narak and reincarnation according to gurmat.


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## Kully (Jul 5, 2016)

techsingh said:


> Tell me your definition of narak and reincarnation according to gurmat.



Narak is a place which exists where sinners are taken (from Guru Granth Sahib).

Reincarnation is process whereby the soul takes the forms of different bodies evolving through different life forms before being given the boon of a human body, from which vessel he/she is able to reconnect with the Primal Soul (from Guru Granth Sahib).


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## Original (Jul 5, 2016)

Good morning techsingh ji -

Thank you for sharing your thoughts !

I've read with interest all that you we've said and offer by way of an explanation some rational basis to help understand the term "dasam dwar".

Just as there is a science of letters n grammar, so there is a spiritual science of the soul. Spiritual Sikhism is to that end, and as such has a glossary of terms just like grammar and letters has in literature. *Dasam dwar *is one such term.

In discussing stories, poems/shabds the first question we usually formulate is: what is it about ? what is the writer trying to tell us ? To ask these kind of formal questions is to conceive the entire shabd as an object made out of words. Poets use imagery and words with different connotations and denotations to contribute to tone, meaning and message. Guru Amardas is indeed explicit when he uses imagery as a figurative [10th gate of the body] language to evoke mental picture following the sentence preceding it, which is, *ਨਉ ਦਰ ਠਾਕੇ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਹਾਏ* [9 gates of the body]. So yes, you're right, he is talking literally but using figurative language to illustrate the 10th gate after the 9 gates of the body [2 eyes, 2 ears, 2 nostrils, mouth and 2 lower organs]. That makes it very specific and explicit. 

If that'd be correct then it rules out all notions of ਮੁਹਾਵਰੇ [idiom usage] and is therefore, specifically carved out to convey the 10th part of the body. Even by definition it cannot be an idiom. Look at the definition of an idiom: 

a group of words established by usage as having a meaning not deducible from those of the individual words (e.g. _over the moon_, _see the light_ ).
Clearly, in the shabd above the figure 10 is deducible from the preceding verse accounting the figure 9. 

And, if I may add, change the words of the text, and you start changing the desired intent of the writer in greater or lesser degree. Spiritual Sikhism has a glossary of terms and the 9 and 10 figurative uses are from within that conceptual theoretical standpoint.

Hope that helps -

Much obliged !


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## Harry Haller (Jul 5, 2016)

Kully said:


> Sir, do you feel there is a "peaking" of Naam? I would assert that Naam as is Waheguru, is ever-expanding.



even ever expanding will have a peak, even if only for the moment, you are talking of an infinitive peak..


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## techsingh (Jul 5, 2016)

Kully said:


> Narak is a place which exists where sinners are taken (from Guru Granth Sahib).
> 
> Reincarnation is process whereby the soul takes the forms of different bodies evolving through different life forms before being given the boon of a human body, from which vessel he/she is able to reconnect with the Primal Soul (from Guru Granth Sahib).


We totally disagree. For me narak is here and now. If we dont practice the truth its narak. 
Reincarnation is here and now also being born and dying everday without the truth, 
Gobind milan ke eh tery baria.
No chance everagain this is your chance now. It is here and now. No fear of hell or joy of heaven in a far off place it takes place everyday in our lives. No need to do tapaysa for hours on an end with closed eyes. Gurmat makes it simply. Listen to the truth. Speak the truth and live the truth.


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## chazSingh (Jul 5, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> I have always felt the same, is there anyone that feels substantially different? Is the Dasam Duar no more than the peaking of the state of Naam?



What is the state of Naam? And What is it's peak?


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## chazSingh (Jul 5, 2016)

techsingh said:


> We totally disagree. For me narak is here and now. If we dont practice the truth its narak.
> Reincarnation is here and now also being born and dying everday without the truth,
> Gobind milan ke eh tery baria.
> No chance everagain this is your chance now. It is here and now. No fear of hell or joy of heaven in a far off place it takes place everyday in our lives. No need to do tapaysa for hours on an end with closed eyes. Gurmat makes it simply. Listen to the truth. Speak the truth and live the truth.




What is Living the Truth?


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## chazSingh (Jul 5, 2016)

techsingh said:


> Exactly but my definition of dasam duar from a gurmat prespective is not same as yours. For me it means peace of mind, happiness by practcing gurbani. I think key to understanding gurbani is that you must understand ਮੁਹਾਵਰੇ idioms.



I think i quit worrying about definitions a while back...
Basically my definitions or perspectives, or understanding from a intellectual point of view were thrown right into the Bin when i started Simran...

One Cannot understand Dassam Duaar or Naam or anything without experiencing it...
Are there heavens and Hells in a far away distant place? i Dont know...Heaven and Hell exists right here also...so why do i care if they exists anywhere else?

What i know is that there is an endless infinite creation out there accessible without a spaceship...all through the Body...its vast...its immense....sounds crazy, but Guru Nanak Dev Ji's DEscription of Endless creations, reals, universes or whatever is real...Your inner vision will reveal, through your simran...


You see, the reciting of Shabad is not the be all and end all, it just helps one develop a still and focused and powerful mind (not the brain)...and then a person is most likely ready to handle what lies ahead...whilst holding back and controlling worldly desires...

The Student in the Classroom, stops to daydream, and starts paying attention...and with the aid of the teacher, starts a pretty cool journey or discovery 

But if you don;t agree with this, then keep doing what you're doing, live as truthfully as you can, warn truthfully, share without wanting reward...what can;t be great in this?

God Bless


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## Original (Jul 5, 2016)

techsingh jee - you're almost there !



techsingh said:


> Listen to the truth


..yes !


techsingh said:


> Speak the truth


...yes !


techsingh said:


> live the truth


...yes !

But, what truth ?


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## chazSingh (Jul 5, 2016)

Original said:


> techsingh jee - you're almost there !
> 
> 
> ..yes !
> ...



 Bravo!


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## Harry Haller (Jul 5, 2016)

chazSingh said:


> One Cannot understand Dassam Duaar or Naam or anything without experiencing it...



Can one tell the difference? Is there a difference? surely they both describe heightened states of awareness? 

I will find appropriate threads for both subjects and reopen them so that we can define both the terms above, or it is possible the thread concludes both topics, which will then save us much time rather than go over old ground here.


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## Original (Jul 5, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> Can one tell the difference? Is there a difference? surely they both describe heightened states of awareness?


..allow me to lead Sir !
In answering what appears to be a cooperative enquiry on your part H, one must accord with the wisdom found on page 340 off SGGSJ, which is, "..no letters of any alphabet can account what lays beyond the 10th gate" [॥ ਬਾਵਨ ਅਛਰ ਲੋਕ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਸਭੁ ਕਛੁ ਇਨ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ॥ ਏ ਅਖਰ ਖਿਰਿ ਜਾਹਿਗੇ *ਓਇ ਅਖਰ ਇਨ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਹਿ* ॥੧॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 340SGGSJ; *in bold*]. In other words, ineffable, *a state beyond time and space*. Those who experience it or indeed, have experienced it cannot speak because the subject matter is incomprehensible. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE BECAUSE IT DEFIES ALL LAWS OF RATIONAL  AND EMPERICAL ENQUIRY AND OBSERVATION, RESPECTIVELY. Those who have had the experience are forever silenced for they become the living testament to what is the "ultimate truth", meaning, satnam. This is more commonly referred to as the mystical experience or religious experience of humankind.

Goodnight Sir and God bless you !


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## Kully (Jul 5, 2016)

techsingh said:


> We totally disagree. For me narak is here and now. If we dont practice the truth its narak.
> Reincarnation is here and now also being born and dying everday without the truth,
> Gobind milan ke eh tery baria.
> No chance everagain this is your chance now. It is here and now. No fear of hell or joy of heaven in a far off place it takes place everyday in our lives. No need to do tapaysa for hours on an end with closed eyes. Gurmat makes it simply. Listen to the truth. Speak the truth and live the truth.




Narak can be here and now, but it is subjective to your past karma and present karma. Imagine someone going through life everyday WITHOUT living, speaking or listening to the truth but still having the time of his life. Is it hell for him? He will tell you no. But when he dies there will be a hell for him. Gurbani says so. There is hell in the next world, which no-one can avoid if they don't follow the path of Dharma. It won't be permanent, but there will a sojourn and residence there for some time. 

Nobody only has one chance to experience Waheguru, unless they subscribe to Semetic philosophies. There are people born in this world who have NO chance of experiencing Waheguru because of physical or other handicaps. Would you say that this should be their one and only chance? 

It is absolutely essential to do Nam Simran. Gurbani says it over and over. It is one of the pillars of Gurmat.


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## chazSingh (Jul 5, 2016)

Original said:


> ..allow me to lead Sir !
> In answering what appears to be a cooperative enquiry on your part H, one must accord with the wisdom found on page 340 off SGGSJ, which is, "..no letters of any alphabet can account what lays beyond the 10th gate" [॥ ਬਾਵਨ ਅਛਰ ਲੋਕ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਸਭੁ ਕਛੁ ਇਨ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ॥ ਏ ਅਖਰ ਖਿਰਿ ਜਾਹਿਗੇ *ਓਇ ਅਖਰ ਇਨ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਹਿ* ॥੧॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 340SGGSJ; *in bold*]. In other words, ineffable, *a state beyond time and space*. Those who experience it or indeed, have experienced it cannot speak because the subject matter is incomprehensible. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE BECAUSE IT DEFIES ALL LAWS OF RATIONAL  AND EMPERICAL ENQUIRY AND OBSERVATION, RESPECTIVELY. Those who have had the experience are forever silenced for they become the living testament to what is the "ultimate truth", meaning, satnam. This is more commonly referred to as the mystical experience or religious experience of humankind.
> 
> Goodnight Sir and God bless you !



I couldn't have put it better myself.

God bless


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## techsingh (Sep 10, 2016)

Original said:


> techsingh jee - you're almost there !
> 
> 
> ..yes !
> ...



This is the truth. 
"ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ "

 Hukam is also a truth. Accepting and living according to hukam is living the truth.


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## techsingh (Sep 10, 2016)

chazSingh said:


> Bravo!



I don't know what your trying to imply here.


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## techsingh (Sep 10, 2016)

Kully said:


> Narak can be here and now, but it is subjective to your past karma and present karma.



What was the first Karma? This has been discussed here many times. 



Kully said:


> Imagine someone going through life everyday WITHOUT living, speaking or listening to the truth but still having the time of his life. Is it hell for him? He will tell you no. But when he dies there will be a hell for him



That person has just lived like any other animal. Then he/she dies, thats it. He never questions his existence thus failing at life without even noticing that he has failed. "Man search within your heart everyday"



Kully said:


> There is hell in the next world, which no-one can avoid if they don't follow the path of Dharma. It won't be permanent, but there will a sojourn and residence there for some time.



This is a Christian, Islamic and Vedic belief. Predates Sikhi. Hence thats why others say Sikhi is nothing new because of wrong interpretations based on those beliefs. 



Kully said:


> Nobody only has one chance to experience Waheguru, unless they subscribe to Semetic philosophies. There are people born in this world who have NO chance of experiencing Waheguru because of physical or other handicaps. Would you say that this should be their one and only chance?



Only one chance. Deformities are deformities, not a punishment from a bearded man. Its part of nature. You know if you have sex with your cousin/sister or brother, chances are the child will be born deformed/il. When one or other parent is deformed or has a an illness that might effect the child, well they should not conceive a child. Rather than blaming ੴ. ੴ is not in the business of punishment. Life is well just life, somedays are better than others. 



Kully said:


> It is absolutely essential to do Nam Simran. Gurbani says it over and over. It is one of the pillars of Gurmat.



What is Naam Simran? Parroting a particular mantar? I don't find this to be right. Yogis and others were already doing this. Why Would Guru Nanak prescribe the same practice to his Sikhs? Could it be that we have totally mis-understood the meaning of Naam-Simran. I think so.


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## Harkiran Kaur (Sep 10, 2016)

Techsingh Ji

Science already proves that what we consider to be matter in this physical universe is not really what we think it is. It's an illusion. Electrons actually only exist because of a 'conscious' observer collapsing the wave function. Otherwise nothing would be solid. (Google double slit experiment). our own bodies and brains are made up of these very electrons as they are intrinsic in EVERY atom in existence. If our consciousness was just a product of the brain and impermanent then who is 'observing' us into existence and why do we posses the same ability to affect matter in this way ourselves? The truth is consciousness is not a product of anything. In fact it's the other way around. Everything is a product of consciousness. And consciousness just IS. Scientists are fighting this discovery tooth and nail because they don't like to admit that yes... It appears that 'we' exist as one pool of conscious energy in a quantum state -- somewhere else!

How does this relate to Sikhi? Guru Nanak Dev Ji discovered there is no birth and death because he knew that truth. Once you know that everything in this creation is merely like a dream (or a play) and that ALL the characters are being played by the ONE same dreamer or (actor) then you understand there is ultimately no death - does the actor die when he removes a costume? Does the dreamer die when he awakens from the dream and is no longer the character in the dream? By the way both analogies are used as metaphor in Gurbani to explain it!! You will find a shabad on Ang 736 for one...

The reason even hell / heaven are not true is that there is only ONE. If there is only one consciousness in existence (which we are all a part of) then how can there truly be a hell? Hell would be not realizing that truth! Hell would be believing that our lives are meaningless and impermanent. Hell would be not knowing our true identity! Just like heaven - the idea of heaven implies a separate place where everything is hunky dory - but any idea of separateness from anything else is still hell to me. Duality is hell. Truth is ONEness. Surpassing the ego identity and becoming ONE again.

We are act of the ONE creator (nirgun unmanifest) becoming self aware by experiencing itself subjectively (Sargun manifest) through its own creation - like a dream, thought...  As ONE it was impossible to do that because there was no 'other'.  When you understand this you understand why there is no birth and no death. And reincarnation does not have the same meaning. Every night I dream I am some different character it's never the same (well maybe sometimes if I really like that dream) but it's wrong to think of any one individual character in any of my dreams reincarnating. They are not real. I am the one behind all of them. So if I dream tonight I am a pilot - (in reality I am also all the passengers too! And the plane and the sky because they are ALL within my dream and I control them all) but anyway let's say I am focused on playing the part of the pilot. When I wake up tomorrow did the pilot really die??? Does the pilot reincarnate? You will say no because the pilot was never real... That's the realization! Right there! And Chaz Ji will know what I am talking about! Wake up from this dream!


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## Kully (Sep 10, 2016)

techsingh said:


> This is a Christian, Islamic and Vedic belief.



Abrahamic faiths beleive heaven and hell to be permanent. Gurbani does not.




techsingh said:


> Only one chance. Deformities are deformities, not a punishment from a bearded man.



What bearded man?



techsingh said:


> What is Naam Simran? Parroting a particular mantar?



Parroting is doing naam simran with no focus on the divine. 




techsingh said:


> Yogis and others were already doing this. Why Would Guru Nanak prescribe the same practice to his Sikhs?



Yogis and others had their focus on the Tridev, and/or other devi devtas. Guru Sahib told them the power behind these beings.


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## techsingh (Sep 10, 2016)

Kully said:


> Abrahamic faiths beleive heaven and hell to be permanent. Gurbani does not.



Am sorry i don't buy this heaven or hell. Gursikhs live by the hukam because its the right thing to do not to for heaven or fear of hell.



Kully said:


> What bearded man?



Humor. Many people believe humans were created in the image of god. Hence a bearded man.



Kully said:


> Parroting is doing naam simran with no focus on the divine.



Parroting is Parroting. Makes no difference to me. Repeating Chocolate, chocolate, chocolate you can not taste Chocolate in the same way repeating waheguru, waheguru,waheguru over and over and over. Does not result in any real useful knowledge. Its like a drug used, to get away from real problems rather than fixing them. Makes no difference to me but i can not bring my self to do this. I did read Bandgi Nama, did not convince me.



Kully said:


> Yogis and others had their focus on the Tridev, and/or other devi devtas. Guru Sahib told them the power behind these beings.



Hindus/yogis do and did believe in one god. One Source.


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## Harry Haller (Sep 11, 2016)

Kully said:


> Yogis and others had their focus on the Tridev, and/or other devi devtas. Guru Sahib told them the power behind these beings.



it seems accepted in Hinduism that all devis and devtas come from one source.(wikipedia)

In Hinduism *Brahman*  connotes the highest Universal Principle, the  ultimate reality in the universe. In major schools of Hindu Philosophy it is the material, efficient, formal and final cause of all that exists. It is the pervasive, genderless, infinite, eternal truth and bliss which does not change, yet is the cause of all changes.Brahman as a metaphysical concept is the single binding unity behind the diversity in all that exists in the universe


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## Kully (Sep 13, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> it seems accepted in Hinduism that all devis and devtas come from one source



Their one source was "Shiva" or "Vishnu".


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## Harry Haller (Sep 14, 2016)

Kully said:


> Their one source was "Shiva" or "Vishnu".



not true,the one source is as stated above, Shiva and Vishnu are merely manifestations of the eternal truth and bliss that is Brahman.


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## Harkiran Kaur (Sep 14, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> not true,the one source is as stated above, Shiva and Vishnu are merely manifestations of the eternal truth and bliss that is Brahman.



Brahma I think you mean as Brahman is priest class... Brahma is seen by hindus as being the one source creator and all the deities are aspects of that one source.  And there are millions of them. The way I understand it is that they don't see the dieties as actual beings but just a way to visualize aspects of brahma. Like rain for example in a drought there is a diety of rain and if they can visualize that they hope to evoke that aspect of creator / creation and end the drought.


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## Harry Haller (Sep 14, 2016)

Harkiran Kaur said:


> Brahma I think you mean as Brahman is priest class... Brahma is seen by hindus as being the one source creator and all the deities are aspects of that one source. And there are millions of them. The way I understand it is that they don't see the dieties as actual beings but just a way to visualize aspects of brahma. Like rain for example in a drought there is a diety of rain and if they can visualize that they hope to evoke that aspect of creator / creation and end the drought.



No, I am quite certain that the god the Hindus worship ultimately is Brahman, although it is given different names, Brahma is an Indian god with three heads, that is not the supreme. you may find the below interesting again from wikki. 

*Brahma[edit]*
Main article: Brahman
Not to be confused with Brahma – the Hindu god, Brahmin – the caste or varna, or Brahmana – a layer of text in the Vedas.
In Hinduism, Brahma (ब्रह्म _Brahma_) is the one supreme, universal Spirit that is the origin and support of the phenomenal universe.[5] Brahma is sometimes referred to as the Absolute or Godhead.[6] Brahma is conceived aspersonal ("with qualities"), impersonal ("without qualities") and/or supreme depending on the philosophical school.[_citation needed_]

The sages of the Upanishads teach that Brahman is the ultimate essence of material phenomena (including the original identity of the human self) that cannot be seen or heard but whose nature can be known through the development of self-knowledge (_atma jnana_).[7] According to Advaita, a liberated human being (_jivanmukta_) has realised Brahman as his or her own true self (see _atman_).

The Isha Upanishad says:

Auṃ – That supreme _Brahman_ is infinite, and this conditioned _Brahman_ is infinite. The infinite proceeds from infinite. If you subtract the infinite from the infinite, the infinite remains alone.

*Nirguna Brahman[edit]*
Main article: Nirguna Brahman
Nirguna Brahman, the supreme reality without form, quality, attribute) signifies in Hindu philosophy the Brahma that pervades the Universe, considered without form (_guna_), as in the Advaita school or else as without _material_form, as in Dvaita schools of philosophy.[_citation needed_]

According to Adi Shankara the nirguna brahman is non-different from the supreme personality, God, whatever qualities we attribute to the divine. By the power of Maya (illusion) the supreme lord (Ishwara) playfully createsmultiple worlds and deludes all beings, who are in essence non-different from him. This world is only relatively real and the real self is not affected by it. The lord appears time and again in this world to show the path of liberation: He seems to take birth but that is an illusion because he is birthless. His body is transcendental, unlike our bodies which are created and destroyed. One can worship him as one's own self or as (fully or partially) distinct from oneself. If one worships any deity one will reach the world of that deity (Hiranyagarbha) but, perhaps after millions of years, deity and devotee will reach _para vasudeva_ or "beyond the divinity". The desireless soul can reach this state here and now: this is called Jivanmukta or "free while alive". This school essentially advocates God as being immortal and formless.[_citation needed_]

It would appear we both worship the same god, there is just more interesting facets  and visualisation in HInduism.

I would wager Sikhism just tried to cut out the middle men!, although it would appear impossible, it is human nature to personalise things, even god.


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## Sikhilove (Sep 18, 2016)

techsingh said:


> We totally disagree. For me narak is here and now. If we dont practice the truth its narak.
> Reincarnation is here and now also being born and dying everday without the truth,
> Gobind milan ke eh tery baria.
> No chance everagain this is your chance now. It is here and now. No fear of hell or joy of heaven in a far off place it takes place everyday in our lives. No need to do tapaysa for hours on an end with closed eyes. Gurmat makes it simply. Listen to the truth. Speak the truth and live the truth.



Kalyug= the age of the psychology of hell on earth.

The majority of the worlds residents are currently living a hellish psychology. 

Spirituality is almost dead. 

Yes your psychology can takes you into the Pits of a hell realm or the heights of a heaven while you are still on earth. 

In this khel are the 14 realms. Upon death, we are assigned to the realm that is most befitting to us according to karam or reincarnated. In both cases, it's our soul that travels, remember Gurbani tells us that this body is like a clay pot- it is temporal.


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## Admin (Sep 19, 2016)

Sikhilove said:


> Kalyug= the age of the psychology of hell on earth.
> 
> The majority of the worlds residents are currently living a hellish psychology.



@Sikhilove Ji

What is a Satyug? When there was a Satyug?


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## Sikhilove (Sep 19, 2016)

Admin Singh said:


> @Sikhilove Ji
> 
> What is a Satyug? When there was a Satyug?



Sat Yuga Kali Yuga

Read the passage from Gurbani, Bhai Gurdas Jis and Guru Gobind Singh Jis writings on the Yugas


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## sukhsingh (Dec 16, 2016)

chazSingh said:


> Then don't endlessly chant...
> i don;t think i've ever heard basics of sikhi tell anyone to endlessly Chant anything...
> 
> If i told you to stop telling your family that you 'love' them....would you stop? why should you stop...
> ...


I'm sorry but it is very dangerous to speak of waheguru in the way he does. His motives may be noble but the expression is very problematic


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 16, 2016)

Sikhilove said:


> Sat Yuga Kali Yuga
> 
> Read the passage from Gurbani, Bhai Gurdas Jis and Guru Gobind Singh Jis writings on the Yugas



Sikhilove ji,

Guru Fateh.

We have several topics on Yugs here. Please go through them and share your thoughts with us.

Secondly, would you be kind enough to share your personal thoughts on the subject as you have delved into  it a lot it seems, from your post.

Thanks 

PS: Please start a new thread so we can all learn from it via pitching in.


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## Tejwant Singh (Dec 16, 2016)

Although I did not agree with Basics of Sikhi's understanding of Sikhi and even had open discussions with him about the disagreements, this is not the time to talk about Yugs and other things.

Let this thread be only about our brother who is battling cancer.


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## Dalvinder Singh Grewal (Dec 17, 2016)

It is like a novice teaching serious philosophy; reasoning out put of of context. Must ignore.


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## chazSingh (Dec 19, 2016)

techsingh said:


> Parroting is Parroting. Makes no difference to me. Repeating Chocolate, chocolate, chocolate you can not taste Chocolate in the same way repeating waheguru, waheguru,waheguru over and over and over. Does not result in any real useful knowledge. Its like a drug used, to get away from real problems rather than fixing them. Makes no difference to me but i can not bring my self to do this. I did read Bandgi Nama, did not convince me.



Hey, check this

i once visited Australia....what a beautiful place...the vastness of the dessert, the view of the night sky...millions of stars you just cannot see anywhere else...the amazing coastline...the great barrier reef...oh man...that was something to see...

Everytime i hear the word "Australia", the feelings, the emotion, the sights, smells and sounds...they start to manifest very clearly in my mind..." It's amazing what words can trigger within you...

IT's very strange....when i first started doing Simran...and i thought just like you....but i gave it a go with all my heart as i wanted to remember God...to Simer...to remember...

I don;t remember taking any drugs  but the wonderful things that occurred...continue to occur.....within me...

believe it or not....if  i say chocolate....its kinda strange...i do actually think about chocolate... 
if i repeat 'sex'...i start to think about sex
if i repeat football, i'm wondering who will win tonight Liverpool or Everton 

Words are strange aren;t they...they can trigger a lot of things within you...but you already know this don't you...as you use words every day to communicate...

Lets say or think some nice words for Jugraj...no matter the outcome...he is a brother with a lot of love for Waheguru...we are all one and the same...one light...

Have a good day techsingh...


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## Sikhilove (Dec 20, 2016)

chazSingh said:


> Hey, check this
> 
> i once visited Australia....what a beautiful place...the vastness of the dessert, the view of the night sky...millions of stars you just cannot see anywhere else...the amazing coastline...the great barrier reef...oh man...that was something to see...
> 
> ...



Simran is awesome, the Nasha is uncomparable, Naam is all, and yet is Nothing.


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## lionprinceuk (Jan 10, 2017)

https://www.sikhnet.com/pages/arti-arta
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]
qIroquPMgobforwmjMgoDmkDwrAxIAwrkmMdkorVw][/FONT]
tÅro tuPaVgo bawo rÁm jaVgo Damak DÁr aNÅÁr kamaVd koraRÁ.
Arrow, Pistols, Large Rifles, those that fire (1), edged (2), pointed (3), nooseb (4) , staff (5). 
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]pMjSsqrprvwx[/FONT]]
paVj shasatar paravÁNa.
Are the chief weapons.
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]suxonMdlwlXihswj][/FONT]
suNo naVd lÁl yahi sÁj .
Listen Nand Lal to this creation.
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]pRgtkrUMApxwrwj[/FONT]]
pragaq karçaV apaNÁ rÁja.
I will make manifest my rule.
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]cwrvrniekvrnkrwaUN][/FONT]
chÁr varan eik varan karÁç.
I will make the four castes one.
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]vwihgurUisMGkonwmjpwaUN][/FONT]
vÁhigurç siaVG ko nÁm japÁç. 
I will make the Singhs repeat Vahiguru. 
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]cVyqurMgauuFwvYbwj][/FONT]
chaRe turaVg uuWÁvÄ bÁja
Who will ride horses and fly Falcons.
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]qurkdyKkYjwvgyBwj][/FONT]
turak deK kÄ jÁvage BÁja.
The Turaks on seeing them will run away.
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]svwlwKsyeyyklVwaUN][/FONT]
savÁ lÁK se eek laRÁç.
I will make one fight 125,000.
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]cVYHisMGiqsumukqkrwaUN[/FONT]]
chaRÄ siG tisu mukat karÁç.
Those that are Shahid I will give them liberation.
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]JUlnnyjyhsqIswjy[/FONT]]
Jçlan neje hasatÅ sÁje.
The spears will wave and the elephants will be adorned.
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]duAwrduAwrpurnObqbwjy][/FONT]
duÁr duÁr pur nÖbat bÁje.
On every door the battle drums will play.
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]svwlwKjbDuKYplIqw][/FONT]
savÁ lÁK jab DuKÄ palÅtÁ.
When 125, 000 barrels will fire.
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]qbYKwlswaudyAsqlOjIqw[/FONT]]
tabÄ KÁlasÁ ude asat lÖ jÅtÁ.
Then the Khalsa will win from where the sun rises to sets.
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]rwjkrygwKwlswAwkIrhYnkoie][/FONT]
rÁj karegÁ KÁlasÁ ÁkÅ rahÄ na koei.
The Khalsa will rule and no rebels will remain.
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]KuAwrhoiesBimlihMgybcysrnjohoie][/FONT]
KuÁr hoei saB milahiaVge bace saran jo hoei.
The faithless will all join, those that take shelter will be saved.
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]auTgeIsPwmlyCkIkrkUVwpwswr][/FONT]
uQ gÅ saPÁ maleC kÅ kar kçRÁ pÁsÁra.
Cleared and up went the impure filth that was spread.
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]fMkwbwjyPiqhkwinhklMkAvqwr][/FONT]
waVkÁ bÁje Patih kÁ nihakalaVk avatÁr.
The battle drums are sounding with victory of the Nihakalank Avatar!
[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]qnKwhnwmwBweInMdlwl19[/FONT]
19 The above verse by Bhai Nand Lal was read in Darbar Sahib but it was stopped by the British. Just like the Arati-Arata, Rahiras Sahib, and Chaupai Sahib were cut down in length. The Dasam Granth Sahib was stabbed with a spear and thrown out of the window of Sri Akal Takht under the reign of the SGPC, the stooges of the British Raj of that time.
Tankhahanamah Bhai Nand Lal


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## Theologian. (Feb 10, 2017)

lionprinceuk said:


> https://www.{url not allowed}/pages/arti-arta
> [FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]
> qIroquPMgobforwmjMgoDmkDwrAxIAwrkmMdkorVw][/FONT]
> tÅro tuPaVgo bawo rÁm jaVgo Damak DÁr aNÅÁr kamaVd koraRÁ.
> ...


 
I had a theory the SGPC were the ones that destroyed Sikhism by taking mainly taking God and other parts out of the faith. A lot of things pointed to this theory of mine, like the cutting of words from new Gurbanis compared to the ones before SGPC, especially the main way a Sikh escapes and has victory from this life. Now Sikhs do not have that knowledge, and it is evident in todays Sikh culture of how it is dying.

May I ask what led you to believe also that SGPC were responsible?


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