# Life After Death



## Admin (Sep 22, 2005)

Until technology advances even further, I doubt man will be 100% sure and absolute about that which exists after death. Until then, spirituality yields a sense of security.


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## Archived_Member16 (Sep 22, 2005)

Q29. What happens to the individual after death?
( Source: :"Introduction to Sikhism", Author: Gobind Singh Mansukhani )










Human life is just a stage in the upward march of the soul. The individual has got birth as a human being, after going through lower forms of life. Human life is the final stage in the soul's progress to divinity. It is for us to make the most of this opportunity and thereby end our cycle of transmigration. 

Death means the destruction of the physical self. The ashes and bonedust mix with the elements. But the soul which leaves the body, awaits a new dwelling. Just as a person casts off worn-out garments and puts on other that are new, so the subtle soul casts off the worn-out body and dwells in a new form. If there were no continuance of the soul after death, how could it become perfect to merit union with the Almighty? 

Sikhism believes in the immortality of the soul. The devotee has no fear of the pangs of death. In fact he welcomes death, because it gives him a chance for the merger into Divinity. The evil person, however, dreads death. For him, it will lead to the unending cycle of birth and death. After death, man comes to the next birth according to what he deserves. If he has been wicked and evil, he takes birth in the lower species. If he has done good deeds, he takes birth in a good family. The cycle of birth and death keeps the soul away from Divinity. It can merge with God, only if the individual, by spiritual effort, has amassed the capital of the Name(the Holy spirit as understood by Christians) and thus lives with the Holy Spirit. 
Guru Arjan in the Sukhmani dwells on the sad plight of the soul which is not endowed with the Name. The soul in its lonely march through darkness can only find sustenance in the word of God. Otherwise it feels the weariness and pain of isolation. 

The soul, Jiva, is a part of God. It is deathless like Him. Before creation, it lived with God. After Creation it takes bodily forms according to His Will. The soul is, however, nourished by virtue and meditation on "The name". The transmigration of the soul can come to an end by meditation and divine grace. 

=======================================================

*This Shabad is by Bhagat Trilochan Ji in Raag Gujri on Pannaa 526 *

gUjrI ]
AMiq kwil jo lCmI ismrY AYsI icMqw mih jy mrY ]
srp join vil vil AauqrY ]1]
ArI bweI goibd nwmu miq bIsrY ] rhwau ]
AMiq kwil jo iesqRI ismrY AYsI icMqw mih jy mrY ]
bysvw join vil vil AauqrY ]2]
AMiq kwil jo liVky ismrY AYsI icMqw mih jy mrY ]
sUkr join vil vil AauqrY ]3]
AMiq kwil jo mMdr ismrY AYsI icMqw mih jy mrY ]
pRyq join vil vil AauqrY ]4]
AMiq kwil nwrwiexu ismrY AYsI icMqw mih jy mrY ]
bdiq iqlocnu qy nr mukqw pIqMbru vw ky irdY bsY ]5]2]

g*oo*jar*ee* ||
a(n)th k*aa*l j*o* lashham*ee* s*i*mar*ai* *ai*s*ee* ch*i*(n)th*aa* meh*i* j*ae* mar*ai* ||
sarap j*o*n val val ao*u*thar*ai* ||1||
ar*ee* b*aa**ee* g*o*b*i*dh n*aa*m math b*ee*sar*ai* || reh*aa*o ||
a(n)th k*aa*l j*o* e*i*sathr*ee* s*i*mar*ai* *ai*s*ee* ch*i*(n)th*aa* meh*i* j*ae* mar*ai* ||
b*ae*sav*aa* j*o*n val val ao*u*thar*ai* ||2||
a(n)th k*aa*l j*o* larr*i*k*ae* s*i*mar*ai* *ai*s*ee* ch*i*(n)th*aa* meh*i* j*ae* mar*ai* ||
s*oo*kar j*o*n val val ao*u*thar*ai* ||3||
a(n)th k*aa*l j*o* ma(n)dhar s*i*mar*ai* *ai*s*ee* ch*i*(n)th*aa* meh*i* j*ae* mar*ai* ||
pr*ae*th j*o*n val val ao*u*thar*ai* ||4||
a(n)th k*aa*l n*aa*r*aa*e*i*n s*i*mar*ai* *ai*s*ee* ch*i*(n)th*aa* meh*i* j*ae* mar*ai* ||
badhath th*i*l*o*chan th*ae* nar m*u*kath*aa* p*ee*tha(n)bar v*aa* k*ae* r*i*dh*ai* bas*ai* ||5||2||

_Goojaree:
At the very last moment, one who thinks of wealth, and dies in such thoughts,
shall be reincarnated over and over again, in the form of serpents. ||1||
O sister, do not forget the Name of the Lord of the Universe. ||Pause||
At the very last moment, he who thinks of women, and dies in such thoughts,
shall be reincarnated over and over again as a prostitute. ||2||
At the very last moment, one who thinks of his children, and dies in such thoughts,


shall be reincarnated over and over again as a pig. ||3||
At the very last moment, one who thinks of mansions, and dies in such thoughts,
shall be reincarnated over and over again as a goblin. ||4||
At the very last moment, one who thinks of the Lord, and dies in such thoughts,
says Trilochan, that man shall be liberated; the Lord shall abide in his heart. ||5||2||_


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## rosethorne (Sep 22, 2005)

WJKK
WJKF
Dear Soul Jyotji has said very truly. Gurbani always enlight our soul but we may be with our wrong perception wrongly, deal with the Gurbani. Every Gursikh has the right to go for his perception and idea. 






isrIrwgu mhlw 5 ] imTw kir kY KwieAw
kauVw aupijAw swdu ] BweI mIq suird kIey ibiKAw ricAw bwdu ] jWdy iblm n hoveI ivxu
nwvY ibsmwdu ]1] myry mn sqgur kI syvw lwgu ] jo dIsY so ivxsxw mn kI miq iqAwgu ]1]
rhwau ] ijau kUkru hrkwieAw DwvY dh ids jwie ] loBI jMqu n jwxeI BKu ABKu sB Kwie ]
kwm k®oD mid ibAwipAw iPir iPir jonI pwie ]2] mwieAw jwlu pswirAw BIqir cog bxwie ]
iqRsnw pMKI PwisAw inksu n pwey mwie ] ijin kIqw iqsih n jwxeI iPir iPir AwvY jwie
]3] Aink pRkwrI moihAw bhu ibiD iehu sMswru ] ijs no rKY so rhY sMimRQu purKu Apwru ] hir
jn hir ilv auDry nwnk sd bilhwru ]4]21]91] {pMnw 50}


Not only at the last time, one cannot get the Kirpa of Satguru until he is pure at Heart, Living without 5Chors. In My perception God has created just two people. And on every birth a bad man/woman born, So they left at Earth to get birth again. Good persons with good deeds , from the begenning of mankind, are always going to Baikunth. But they are so less in numbers that we are now more than 6,000,000,000. Not all are bad But more than enough are back again and again. We don't know about where we go after Death but we Can Go to Baikunth By be pure at Heart. We have to be pure at the piece of Earth, we are standing or sitting. But most of us are living with Ninda, Chugli,teri-meri, Which are the main obstacles towards getting closer to Baikunth. May GOD give us the light to enlight the World with good pure deeds. 




​







gauVI
bYrwgix mhlw 4 ] ijsu imilAY min hoie AnMdu so siqguru khIAY ] mn kI duibDw ibnis
jwie hir prm pdu lhIAY ]1] myrw siqguru ipAwrw ikqu ibiD imlY ] hau iKnu iKnu krI
nmskwru myrw guru pUrw ikau imlY ]1] rhwau ] kir ikrpw hir myilAw myrw siqguru pUrw ] ieC
puMnI jn kyrIAw ly siqgur DUrw ]2] hir Bgiq idRVwvY hir Bgiq suxY iqsu siqgur imlIAY ]
qotw mUil n AwveI hir lwBu iniq idRVIAY ]3] ijs kau irdY ivgwsu hY Bwau dUjw nwhI ] nwnk
iqsu gur imil auDrY hir gux gwvwhI ]4]8]14]52] {pMnw 168}


​











​


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## S|kH (Sep 22, 2005)

I dont believe it...

there is no life after death.

I ask...what is "Life before birth?" 

Just like before birth you remember nothing, you know nothing...you don't exist.
After death...you know nothing, you remember nothing...because you cease to exist. Soul/Mind/Body...everything ceases to exist.


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## drkhalsa (Sep 22, 2005)

> I dont believe it...
> 
> there is no life after death.
> 
> ...


 
Dear Sikh

I respect your bekief and strong conviction brother believe me I am not being sarcistic or anything like that so dont get me wrong 
I an just being inquistive But i would like to know what do you understand by what this part of SGGS Says ( as same mentioned above by Soul Jyot)

AMg 526​

ang 526
Page 526
​

gUjrI ]​

g​oojuree 
Goojaree:
​

AMiq kwil jo lCmI ismrY AYsI icMqw mih jy mrY ]​

anth k​aal jo lushumee simuraiaisee chinthaa mehi jae murai 
At the very last moment, one who thinks of wealth, and dies in such thoughts,
​

srp join vil vil AauqrY ]1]​

surup j​on val val aouthurai 
shall be reincarnated over and over again, in the form of serpents. ||1||
​

ArI bweI goibd nwmu miq bIsrY ] rhwau ]​

ar​ee baaee gobidh naam math beesurai 
O sister, do not forget the Name of the Lord of the Universe. ||Pause||
​

AMiq kwil jo iesqRI ismrY AYsI icMqw mih jy mrY ]​

anth k​aal jo eisuthree simuraiaisee chinthaa mehi jae murai 
At the very last moment, he who thinks of women, and dies in such thoughts,
​

bysvw join vil vil AauqrY ]2]​

b​aesuvaa jon val val aouthurai 
shall be reincarnated over and over again as a prostitute. ||2||
​

AMiq kwil jo liVky ismrY AYsI icMqw mih jy mrY ]​

anth k​aal jo larrikae simuraiaisee chinthaa mehi jae murai 
At the very last moment, one who thinks of his children, and dies in such thoughts,
​

sUkr join vil vil AauqrY ]3]​

s​ookur jon val val aouthurai 
shall be reincarnated over and over again as a pig. ||3||
​

AMiq kwil jo mMdr ismrY AYsI icMqw mih jy mrY ]​

anth k​aal jo mundhur simuraiaisee chinthaa mehi jae murai 
At the very last moment, one who thinks of mansions, and dies in such thoughts,
​

pRyq join vil vil AauqrY ]4]​

pr​aeth jon val val aouthurai 
shall be reincarnated over and over again as a goblin. ||4||
​

AMiq kwil nwrwiexu ismrY AYsI icMqw mih jy mrY ]​

anth k​aal naaraaein simuraiaisee chinthaa mehi jae murai 
At the very last moment, one who thinks of the Lord, and dies in such thoughts,
​

bdiq iqlocnu qy nr mukqw pIqMbru vw ky irdY bsY ]5]2]​

budhath th​ilochun thae nur mukuthaa peethunbur vaa kae ridhai busai 
says Trilochan, that man shall be liberated; the Lord shall abide in his heart. ||5||2||



Jatinder Singh​


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## kds1980 (Sep 23, 2005)

S|kH said:
			
		

> I dont believe it...
> 
> there is no life after death.
> 
> ...



wjkk
wjkf

 you don't beleive in life after death here are lines of kabir ji

AYsy Gr hm bhuqu bswey ] (326-1, gauVI, kbIr jI)
aisay ghar ham bahut basaa-ay.
I lived in many such homes, O Lord,

jb hm rwm grB hoie Awey ]1] rhwau ] (326-1, gauVI, kbIr jI)
jab ham raam garabh ho-ay aa-ay. ||1|| rahaa-o.
before I came into the womb this time. ||1||Pause||

jogI jqI qpI bRhmcwrI ] (326-2, gauVI, kbIr jI)
jogee jatee tapee barahamchaaree.
I was a Yogi, a celibate, a penitent, and a Brahmchaaree, with strict self-discipline.

kbhU rwjw CqRpiq kbhU ByKwrI ]2] (326-2, gauVI, kbIr jI)
kabhoo raajaa chhatarpat kabhoo bhaykhaaree. ||2||
Sometimes I was a king, sitting on the throne, and sometimes I was a beggar. ||2||

swkq mrih sMq siB jIvih ] (326-2, gauVI, kbIr jI)
saakat mareh sant sabh jeeveh.
The faithless cynics shall die, while the Saints shall all survive.

rwm rswienu rsnw pIvih ]3] (326-3, gauVI, kbIr jI)
raam rasaa-in rasnaa peeveh. ||3||
They drink in the Lord's Ambrosial Essence with their tongues. ||3||

khu kbIr pRB ikrpw kIjY ] (326-3, gauVI, kbIr jI)

 kabir ji clearly write about his previous lives.


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## rosethorne (Sep 23, 2005)

Dear *S|kH,*

*                  What do you think? Is there no other things, except your previous birth, has no remmembrance. You are mistaken, we don't remmember a lot of things of our today's life. Do you believe in Guru Nanak's Bani of which said ANAHAT, What is Anahat? Anahat is the sound which can be heard without the ears. And by Me or You We can't hear anything without ears. But some Gursikh can. Don't say NO to anything when you have no idea about it. *

isrIrwgu mhl 1 ]
qnu jil bil mwtI BieAw mnu mwieAw moih mnUru ] Aaugx iPir lwgU Bey kUir vjwvY qUru ] ibnu sbdY BrmweIAY duibDw foby pUru ]1] mn ry sbid qrhu icqu lwie ] ijin gurmuiK nwmu n bUiJAw mir jnmY AwvY jwie ]1] rhwau ] qnu sUcw so AwKIAY ijsu mih swcw nwau ] BY sic rwqI dyhurI ijhvw scu suAwau ] scI ndir inhwlIAY bhuiV n pwvY qwau ] 2] swcy qy pvnw BieAw pvnY qy jlu hoie ] jl qy iqRBvxu swijAw Git Git joiq smoie ] inrmlu mYlw nw QIAY sbid rqy piq hoie ]3] iehu mnu swic sMqoiKAw ndir kry iqsu mwih ] pMc BUq sic BY rqy joiq scI mn mwih ] nwnk Aaugx vIsry guir rwKy piq qwih ]4]15]{pMnw19} ​


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## jagmeet (Oct 1, 2005)

Aman Singh said:
			
		

> Until technology advances even further, I doubt man will be 100% sure and absolute about that which exists after death. Until then, spirituality yields a sense of security.


 
I don't think technology(howsoever advanced it may be)will ever be able to tell you what lies beyond death!

For this one has to turn to spirituality or whatever belief system one has.


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## devinesanative (Jan 4, 2006)

Harsimiritkaurji knows the answer to this question .


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## badmash (Feb 13, 2007)

Or is indeed religion truly opium of the masses?
I naysay either opinion.
But the all the horror of the modern world and recent centuries would make any rational individual truly question his own or others' belief in the One and the afterlife.


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## kds1980 (Feb 13, 2007)

if someone is interested in proof of afterlife then he should read the following book.this person has provided lot of evidence of after life.

VICTOR ZAMMIT -- A Lawyer Presents the Case for the Afterlife


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## Sinister (Feb 15, 2007)

Hello, interesting topic!

My veiws are entirely irrelevant to sikhism (almost atheist)

It would be great if we could sit here and "know" that there is life after death! 
but would you want to live forever? The concept of complete anihilation of both body and soul ironically seems much more peaceful.
The concept of life after death is like Sigmund Freud explained; a projection of a deeper human feeling of survival (its being expressed in religion as a projection of true human feeling and desire...the desire to sustain life indefinetly)

So what happens when you die?
The end of neurological activity ... so the same place you go when you take a sedative or when your conscious is in deep sleep. COMPLETE SHUTDOWN...chaos almost

my veiws.... most likely the veiws of science as well.


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## kds1980 (Feb 15, 2007)

Sinister said:


> Hello, interesting topic!
> 
> My veiws are entirely irrelevant to sikhism (almost atheist)
> 
> ...



its easy to say that according to science there is no life after death but there are many paranormal experiances,psychic phenomina,s which are totaly unexplained by science.one of them is xenoglossy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Book 4th Edition
<< Previous Chapter : Book Index : Next Chapter >>

22. Xenoglossy

“Even if telepathy were proved to be true,' an eminent biologist told William James, 'savants ought to band together to suppress and conceal it, because it would upset the uniformity without which scientists cannot carry on their pursuits.”
Quoted from Brian Inglis

One of the most amazing psychic phenomena, which religionists, skeptics and atheists have continuously and deliberately ignored is xenoglossy - the ability to speak or write a foreign language a person never learned. 

After all other explanations have been investigated - such as fraud, genetic memory, telepathy and cryptomnesia (the remembering of a foreign language learned earlier), xenoglossy is taken as evidence of either memories of a language learned in a past life or of communication with a discarnate entity- a spirit person.

There are many cases on record of adults and children speaking and writing languages which they have never learned. Sometimes this happens spontaneously but more often it occurs while the person is under hypnosis or in an altered state of consciousness. In some cases it is only a few words remembered but in other cases the person becomes totally fluent and able to converse with native speakers sometimes in obscure dialects which have not been in use for centuries. 

Dr Morris Netherton reports one case of a blond, blue-eyed eleven year old boy who under hypnosis was taped for eleven minutes as he spoke in an ancient Chinese dialect. When the tape was taken to a professor at the Department of Oriental Studies at the University of California it turned out to be a recitation from a forbidden religion of Ancient China (Fisher 1986:202). 

American medium George Valentine under trance conducted seances in Russian, German, Spanish and Welsh. The Brazilian medium Carlos Mirabelli spoke and wrote long technical documents in more than thirty languages including Syrian and Japanese in the presence of scientists and crowds up to 5,000 (Lazarus 1993: 121).

In 1977 doctors at a state penitentiary in Ohio, USA, discovered that a convicted rapist named Billy Mulligan had become possessed by two new personalities, both of whom communicated in a different language. Mulligan was born and raised in the USA and spoke no foreign languages. But when taken over by Abdul, Mulligan could read and write in perfect Arabic; as Rugen he spoke perfect Serbo-Croat with a thick Slavic accent (Lazarus 1993: 83).

The most obvious explanations of these kinds of cases are either deliberate fraud or that the person concerned learnt the language in early childhood without being aware of it. Careful investigators always take care to thoroughly investigate these two possibilities.

Dr Ian Stevenson

Dr Ian Stevenson is one of the most respected scientists in the United States. He has done specialized research into xenoglossy and his book Xenoglossy (Stevenson 1974) is one of the leading scientific studies in this area. In it he documents a study he made of a 37 year old American woman. Under hypnosis she experienced a complete change of voice and personality into that of a male. She spoke fluently in the Swedish language-a language she did not speak or understand when in the normal state of consciousness.

Dr Stevenson's direct involvement with this case lasted more than eight years. The study involved linguists and other experts and scientists who meticulously investigated every alternative explanation. 

Fraud was ruled out for number of substantive reasons which Stevenson outlines in his study. The subject and her physician husband were thoroughly investigated. They were under extreme and continuous close scrutiny, did not want publicity and agreed to the publication of the study only if their names were changed to protect their privacy. Both the husband and wife were considered by their local community to be honest and decent and their behavior exemplary. Certainly there was no motive for personal profit. On the contrary they experienced a great deal of inconvenience to fully complete the study over many years.

Cryptomnesia-the recollection of a foreign language learned in the earlier years of a person's life was also ruled out. Years of investigation of the subject failed to raise any possible suggestion that either she or her parents had learnt the Swedish language in her younger years or associated with anyone Swedish.

Another case Stevenson investigated with equal care was reported in the July 1980 edition of the Journal of the American Society for Psychical Research. It involved an Indian woman named Uttar Huddar who at aged 32 spontaneously took on the personality of a housewife of West Bengal in the early 1800s. She began speaking Bengali instead of her own language Marathi. For days or weeks at a time speakers of Bengali had to be brought in to enable her to communicate with her own family. 

Author Lyall Watson describes a case of a ten year old child, an Igarot Indian living in the remote Cagayon Valley in the Philippines. The child had never had any contact with any language or culture other than his own. Yet under trance conditions the child communicated freely in Zulu, a language he could not have even heard. Watson only recognized it because he had spent his early life in Africa (cited by Lazarus 1993: 84).

Peter Ramster; an Australian psychotherapist, has documented several thoroughly investigated cases. In his book The Search for Lives Past (Ramster 1990 : 227) he cites the case of Cynthia Henderson whose only contact with the French language had been a few months of very basic instruction in Year 7 of high school. Yet under hypnosis she was able to carry on a long and detailed conversation in French with a native speaker who commented that she spoke without any English accent and in the manner of the eighteenth century. 
In some cases subjects under trance have communicated in languages no longer in use or known only to a handful of experts. 

Dr Joel Whitton cites the case of Harold Jaworski who under hypnosis wrote down twenty-two words and phrases which he 'heard' himself speaking in a past Viking life. Working independently, linguists identified and translated ten of these words as Old Norse and several of the others as Russian, Serbian or Slavic. All were words associated with the sea ( Whitton and Fisher 1987: 210).

In 1931 a young English girl from Blackpool, known as Rosemary in the files of the Society for Psychical Research, began to speak in an ancient Egyptian dialect under the influence of the personality of Telika-Ventiu who had lived in approximately 1400 BC. In front of Egyptologist Howard Hume she wrote down 66 accurate phrases in the lost language of hieroglyphs and spoke in a tongue unheard outside academic circles for thousands of years (Lazarus 1993: 85).

Pearl Curgen, a medium from Saint Louis who was barely literate, began to write in astonishingly accurate Middle English. Under the guidance of a spirit entity she produced sixty novels, plays and poems, including a 60,000 word epic poem (Lazarus 1993: 119).

Telepathy or genetic memory

In addition to fraud and cryptomnesia, two other 'explanations' sometimes given by skeptics for xenoglossy are 'telepathy' or 'genetic memory'. Yet there has never been, anywhere in the world, one documented case of a person being able to speak a foreign language they learned by telepathy. 

The other so-called 'explanation' - genetic memory is equally difficult to take seriously. The claim that somehow an Ancient Chinese language became embedded in the genes of an eleven year old Caucasian American enabling him to speak the language is laughable.

There are literally thousands of xenoglossic cases, many hundreds of which have been documented. They involve modern and ancient languages from all over the world. Psychic investigators, such the highly credible Dr Ian Stevenson, used scientific method to illustrate xenoglossy and claim that there are only two possible explanations-either spirit contact or past life memory both of which are evidence for the afterlife.

The onus shifts onto the skeptic to provide an alternative credible explanation. So far no-one has been able to do so. 

Accordingly, in the absence of any other credible explanation and in context of the other existing hard-core evidence for the afterlife-electronic voice phenomena and mediumship-xenoglossy becomes easy to accept as further hard-core evidence for survival.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
science don't have any answer that how could a person start speaking or writing a language which is totaly unknown to him.


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## jagmeet (Feb 16, 2007)

Science tries to obtain a material explanation of everything--that's a good approach and the only one available to us--but I agree there are certain phenomena(quite a few in fact)which science can not explain.


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## Hai_Bhi_Sach (Feb 25, 2007)

Dear Brothers and sisters of SPN,

There is life before death and there is life after death unless you die a death as per SGGS where this death can be your last death. It is in many ways a gift by nature that we cannot remeber our past. Each time we take birth nature gives us a chance to improve ourselves. We can also die as result of shock or go into comma or even commit suicide we we came to know our past. You could carry on committing crimes where you left last time or go back and claim your past residence etc etc etc. So you see there can be several possibilities and implication on the future. We carry all this data with us all the time. It can be accessed but at the risk of your present life. So it is not wise as what has happened should be left burried for good.

The visions of the past will come forth at some stage where you will live those lifes and it is for this reason we should follow the teachings of our beloved gurus and try to improve ourselves on a day by day basis by reciting (NOT CHANTING - like AKJ do) the Naam and become sensitive enough so that we can listern to the ongoing "DHUN" within our selves which will show us a path - a direction.

Discovery in science for example - you discover something that is already there. When ever scienece find something they say they have discovered. What that actually means is that nature has let something go out of its hands. If nature lets the knowledge of technology of life out of its hands - firstly we would have become more wiser to handle it and secondly there will be some other conditions attached to it that will forbid us from using it freely.

We are living through Kalyug. This is a period where even a fraction of "simran" done makes a huge difference in your spiritual growth. If you know how to do it. We should make more of an effort to get out of this illusion that to find ways or revivng our past or finding a way to live longer. Learn to detatch yourself from the worldly matters. SGGS tells us how. Be patient , be dedicated and you will have the answer from within yourself.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh


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## Satyaban (Feb 28, 2007)

If this is my last chance to put things right I am in big trouble.  Fortunately That One has given me and giving me chance after chance after chance.

Peace
Satyaban


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## kaur-1 (Feb 28, 2007)

Satyaban said:


> If this is my last chance to put things right I am in big trouble.  Fortunately That One has given me and giving me chance after chance after chance.
> 
> Peace
> Satyaban



 Dear Satyaban ji , Yes but what if you are born in a lower species in the next life. What then!!.


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## Anoop (Feb 28, 2007)

What I would say is... be disciplined in life...don't worry to much, and as the gentleman had said before on this topic, have patience...and live life with discipline...try to get rid of any habbits you may have, and live in a good way, in a learning way...aand god will help when the help is needed.


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## Amarpal (Mar 1, 2007)

Dear Khalsa Ji,

The question of remembering the past birth can be answered. If one is looking for rememberance of the events in detail, the answer is no, we do not remember. Yet the Samskara of the past birth are remembered, not in the form we mean by memory today, that is to give verbal expression to this rememberance as we do in our day to day life, but these rememberance gets expressed in the attributes of the new body we acquire after discarding this body.

This is my understanding.

With love and respect for all

Amarpal Singh


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## Satyaban (Mar 1, 2007)

Dear Kaur-1 Ji

In that case there must be such an experience required for my spiritual evolution>

Om shanti shanti Om

Satyaban


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## Sinister (Mar 3, 2007)

Somtimes I read this forum and truly beleive that some people really are in rudimentary terms... full of it!  

It is highly unlikely that their is life after death (we can only sit here in awe of this world...we will never know for sure so stop acting ignorant as if we have a clue) 
kds 1980...theres no such thing as telepathy...you've officially let hollywood/bollywood rot your brain into the size of a pea

*STOP THIS NONSENSE OF KARMA KARMA:*
The concept of Karma was introduced as a control measure because law enforcement was inadequate in the past! 
people would be scared out of doing wrong thus suppressing civil revolts... but somehow the karmian ideology persists within the unenlightened masses in the east till this day...despite having the state judiciary and police networks. 

Like *Nietzsche* said "God is dead; but his shadow still lurks on the walls"

Karmian ideology was a way in which people born into serfdom would  be obliged to stay in serfdom and eventually die in serfdom (by the wish of their masters, of course)... It was a technique used by the High Caste to suppress the uneducated masses of the time (I've noticed that in some regions of India it is still used in this manner)

so this nonsense of being born poor because of what you did in your "past life" (which by the way you cant remember..because....ooo yea it doesnt work that way) is the nonsense that makes this world more filthy and disgusting.

*Answer One Simple Question To All SIKHS:*
*As sikhs..we do not support the caste system...then why do we support Karmian Ideology?....a system that soldifies and justifies the caste system.*

*shame on all of you who do support it...shame, shame, shame!*

*ps: karma is not the same idea as "what goes around come around" its a concept that literally states "you got what you deserved...now stop complaining and die with what you have until the next life" except what you got is nothing compared to person telling you to be satisfied! *


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## kds1980 (Mar 3, 2007)

> It is highly unlikely that their is life after death (we can only sit here in awe of this world...we will never know for sure so stop acting ignorant as if we have a clue)
> kds 1980...theres no such thing as telepathy...you've officially let hollywood/bollywood rot your brain into the size of a pea



sinister your views are more of a marxists than a sikh.i just posted some cases from a book which you are unable to refute that's why you have started using abusive language.sikhism beleives in god and and the aim of life is to merge with god.if you beleive that i have pea sized brain then yes all 
religious people on the earth has pea sized brain.


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## Sinister (Mar 3, 2007)

If you beleive in in telepathy...You have officially lost touch with reality...which pretty dangerous....just tryin to help you out... you know get you back on track.

Do you go to pandits/hand-readers to obtain tranquility? 

as for you "sources" 
none of which are peer reviewed by any scientific community, are largely erroneous.

ps: im a progressive socialist who beleives that their is still hope in reason guided by sikh morality....not a marxist.  what are you ... a steel hearted capitlist? or a fence sitter? or a High Caste?


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## kds1980 (Mar 3, 2007)

> If you beleive in in telepathy...You have officially lost touch with reality...which pretty dangerous....just tryin to help you out... you know get you back on track.



the article i posted is about xenoglossy not telepathy.there some reported cases of xenoglossy and yes i do beleive in paranormal things.



> Do you go to pandits/hand-readers to obtain tranquility?



no i don't go to pandits.why should i go to them if someone beleives in such things then he should go to pandits what a logic you have.



> as for you "sources"
> none of which are peer reviewed by any scientific community, are largely erroneous.



science is not absolute.there are many conflicts within. science.one school publish one theory and other school publish another theory.just visit white superemacy sites like stormfront and they will show you many so called scientific studies that white's are superior and blacks are inferior.



> ps: im a progressive socialist who beleives that their is still hope in reason guided by sikh morality....not a marxist. what are you ... a steel hearted capitlist? or a fence sitter? or a High Caste?



you are fanatic in your theory that's why just like a fanatic muslim you want to help me and others and if some one don't agree with your theory then he must have pea sized brain.and i totaly don't understand where i supported hardcore capitalism or boasted about my caste.[/quote]


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## Sinister (Mar 3, 2007)

*"the article i posted is about xenoglossy not telepathy.there some reported cases of xenoglossy and yes i do beleive in paranormal things."  ("O'er what dangerous waters ye tread?")*

Why make a faith that is rooted in logic, illogical? 
this is the very thing our gurus where out to destroy...this beleif in the "paranormal" and here you stand 300 years later embracing it?

The reason I asked you if you went to pandits was not to offend you but learn where "paranormal beleivers" (such as yourself) draw the line between reason and utter blindness (assuming you beleive pandits are fake but people being raised with genes from there previous past are true...which if you had any clue of biological processes would know is farce and makes no sense).

*science is not absolute.there are many conflicts within. science.one school publish one theory and other school publish another theory.*
*Nothing in this world is absolute because the universe is not absolute (the universe changes) ..even scientist agree to this! the changing of science is the best part of science (it awknowledges its change at least)! (religion is not absolute either....3 mellinia ago their were different faiths and now there are others..... a couple of mellinia from now sikhism will definetly not be the same practice... just wait till your old it will be different then as well) *
I never said science was absolute! consider what your typing on....consider the interface thorugh which we communicate? (if science guided by faith is not the answer to our problems... is the beleif in apparitions and the paranormal suitable answer to todays troubles?) 

science may provide estimates and some logical conclusions for understanding natural phenomena but its a never ending process. Dont critique...participate in science thats the best part. 
the beleif in the paranormal cannot even do that, it cant even develop you spiritually, it cannot provide hope, and it definitely cannot provide estimates (it makes for an interesting bedtime story for the children but to internalize such beleifs I personally find disturbing)

If you want to call me a fanatic then so be it...
please note that it was the beleivers in the "paranormal" that:
1) sacrificed animals to gods.
2) gave offerings of milk and honey to gods made of stone despite having starving beggars outside.(this continues) 
3) burned "witches" at the stake
4) performed satti
*remember one thing.. it was always the "fanatics" (humanists) that stopped them! (these include our gurus)*
there is no good that comes out of the beleif of the paranormal other than the selfish satisfaction of your ego. 

if your still upset about the pea sized brain comment...then my apologies. You have a big brain .... bigger than mine... whether you use it or not is a different story 
cheers mate!


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## kds1980 (Mar 5, 2007)

> Why make a faith that is rooted in logic, illogical?
> this is the very thing our gurus where out to destroy...this beleif in the "paranormal" and here you stand 300 years later embracing it?


dear sinister


           our guru's were not atheists.they did beleive in god ,soul,transmigration..please don't mind but you have respect for guru's because you are born in sikh family.other atheists don't have any high regards for our guru's.according to them they too were either mentaly unstable or like other pandits they too
were fooling people.



> The reason I asked you if you went to pandits was not to offend you but learn where "paranormal beleivers" (such as yourself) draw the line between reason and utter blindness (assuming you beleive pandits are fake but people being raised with genes from there previous past are true...which if you had any clue of biological processes would know is farce and makes no sense).



utter blindess whether in paranormal or science is dangerous.nowhere i said that i beleive in 
genes from past.i beleive in soul which is far from the explanation of science.



> science may provide estimates and some logical conclusions for understanding natural phenomena but its a never ending process. Dont critique...participate in science thats the best part.
> the beleif in the paranormal cannot even do that



if you read the article that i posted has lot of evidence from scientists.
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One of the most amazing psychic phenomena, which religionists, skeptics and atheists have continuously and deliberately ignored is xenoglossy - the ability to speak or write a foreign language a person never learned. 

After all other explanations have been investigated - such as fraud, genetic memory, telepathy and cryptomnesia (the remembering of a foreign language learned earlier), xenoglossy is taken as evidence of either memories of a language learned in a past life or of communication with a discarnate entity- a spirit person.

There are many cases on record of adults and children speaking and writing languages which they have never learned. Sometimes this happens spontaneously but more often it occurs while the person is under hypnosis or in an altered state of consciousness. In some cases it is only a few words remembered but in other cases the person becomes totally fluent and able to converse with native speakers sometimes in obscure dialects which have not been in use for centuries. 

Dr Morris Netherton reports one case of a blond, blue-eyed eleven year old boy who under hypnosis was taped for eleven minutes as he spoke in an ancient Chinese dialect. When the tape was taken to a professor at the Department of Oriental Studies at the University of California it turned out to be a recitation from a forbidden religion of Ancient China (Fisher 1986:202). 

American medium George Valentine under trance conducted seances in Russian, German, Spanish and Welsh. The Brazilian medium Carlos Mirabelli spoke and wrote long technical documents in more than thirty languages including Syrian and Japanese in the presence of scientists and crowds up to 5,000 (Lazarus 1993: 121).

In 1977 doctors at a state penitentiary in Ohio, USA, discovered that a convicted rapist named Billy Mulligan had become possessed by two new personalities, both of whom communicated in a different language. Mulligan was born and raised in the USA and spoke no foreign languages. But when taken over by Abdul, Mulligan could read and write in perfect Arabic; as Rugen he spoke perfect Serbo-Croat with a thick Slavic accent (Lazarus 1993: 83).

The most obvious explanations of these kinds of cases are either deliberate fraud or that the person concerned learnt the language in early childhood without being aware of it. Careful investigators always take care to thoroughly investigate these two possibilities.

Dr Ian Stevenson

Dr Ian Stevenson is one of the most respected scientists in the United States. He has done specialized research into xenoglossy and his book Xenoglossy (Stevenson 1974) is one of the leading scientific studies in this area. In it he documents a study he made of a 37 year old American woman. Under hypnosis she experienced a complete change of voice and personality into that of a male. She spoke fluently in the Swedish language-a language she did not speak or understand when in the normal state of consciousness.

Dr Stevenson's direct involvement with this case lasted more than eight years. The study involved linguists and other experts and scientists who meticulously investigated every alternative explanation. 

Fraud was ruled out for number of substantive reasons which Stevenson outlines in his study. The subject and her physician husband were thoroughly investigated. They were under extreme and continuous close scrutiny, did not want publicity and agreed to the publication of the study only if their names were changed to protect their privacy. Both the husband and wife were considered by their local community to be honest and decent and their behavior exemplary. Certainly there was no motive for personal profit. On the contrary they experienced a great deal of inconvenience to fully complete the study over many years.

Cryptomnesia-the recollection of a foreign language learned in the earlier years of a person's life was also ruled out. Years of investigation of the subject failed to raise any possible suggestion that either she or her parents had learnt the Swedish language in her younger years or associated with anyone Swedish.
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there are recorded cases of xenoglossy where a person has started speaking different language
scientists have no answer to these cases.because these cases are  very rare so majority of scientists just try to ignore them these cases are studied by scientists like dr.morris or dr.stevenson.
just because their views are different from traditional scientists it does that it is not science.for me science is open mind which should try to research each and every case casy with open mind
not with rigid mind.



> If you want to call me a fanatic then so be it...
> please note that it was the beleivers in the "paranormal" that
> 1) sacrificed animals to gods.
> 2) gave offerings of milk and honey to gods made of stone despite having starving beggars outside.(this continues)
> ...



i can say the same thing about science.fanatic nazis killed millions of people because of race theories created by science.science created weapons of mass destruction and now thanks to science we are even destroying our planet due to pollution.so the problem is not science or beleif in paranormal but
human nature.



> there is no good that comes out of the beleif of the paranormal other than the selfish satisfaction of your ego.



you are confusing paranormal with superstitions, blind rituals,dogma,s.it is beleif in the existence of soul that stop people from doing bad things.



> if your still upset about the pea sized brain comment...then my apologies. You have a big brain .... bigger than mine... whether you use it or not is a different story
> cheers mate!



yes i was upset.our views based on on our lives,our studies  our experiances .our upbringing
which no other person could experiance.we are here to communicate with each other ,exchange our views and learn.if someone does not agree with our views then it does not mean that he has lesser brain.and i am too sorry for calling you a fanatic.


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