# Should A Child Carry A Weapon (kirpan)?



## seeker3k (Apr 7, 2009)

SIKH TEEN CHARGED WITH ASSAULT USING RELIGIOUS DAGGER.

Montreal; Feb 9: The issue of whether a Sikh religious object should be consider a weapon. The Sikh boy has pleaded not guilty.
If the boy was attacked then he has every right to use the dagger(kirpan).
Guru Gobind Sing gave the kirpan for the protection for one self and to protect others.
Most people I talked with disagree with me. They claim it is a symbol not a weapon.

Is it just a symbol or more then that? Do the children should be made to carry weapon?


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## spnadmin (Apr 7, 2009)

seekr ji

We need a little more information here before we have a discussion. I remember a recent story about this but it was a lot more detailed and there were a lot more nuances to it that you have reported.


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## BhagatSingh (Apr 7, 2009)

I think the question is not whether a child should or an adult should. I think the question is why carry/wear a kirpan?


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## spnadmin (Apr 7, 2009)

Bhagat ji

We want to stay with the original question. If my thinking is correct seekr3k is referring to a story which led to the arrest of a young boy. This opened up another controversy about the right to wear a kirpan as an article of religious faith. If there are individuals who believe that the kirpan is irrelevant to the expression of Sikhism then this thread is not the place to  have that discussion. We have not even gotten off the ground floor yet because Seekr3k has not clarified the story. Instead of moving a discussion off on a tangent it is better to start a new thread.


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## BhagatSingh (Apr 7, 2009)

Oh,ok. 
Anway, is this it? 
Teen charged in kirpan assault denies using dagger as weapon


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 7, 2009)

The question is not about "CHILD" or ADULT.
The question is about a SIKH.
And a SIKH has no age restrictions.
And a SIKH can and should carry a KIRPAN once he/she takes Pahul/Amrit.


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## bawaj (Apr 8, 2009)

Until the a person does not understand why we wear a kirpan, he or she should not wear one (This goes for all 5ks). One cannot understand the intrinsic qualities associated with being a Khalsa at a young age. Many times people may take amrit but dont know why... parents pressure, community pressure, etc. As a result are unaware of what sikhi is. If grownups cant understand true nature of sikhi then how can we expect kids to understand. Kids see the kirpan as a weapon not a symbol. 

I hope that if there are any reponses to this thread one refrains from using examples from centuries ago because they are all outdated and the current times demand new understanding faith and devotion; or else we will fall in the same dogmatic trap that most religions have fallen into today.


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## Tejwant Singh (Apr 8, 2009)

bawaj said:


> Until the a person does not understand why we wear a kirpan, he or she should not wear one (This goes for all 5ks). One cannot understand the intrinsic qualities associated with being a Khalsa at a young age. Many times people may take amrit but dont know why... parents pressure, community pressure, etc. As a result are unaware of what sikhi is. If grownups cant understand true nature of sikhi then how can we expect kids to understand. Kids see the kirpan as a weapon not a symbol.
> 
> I hope that if there are any reponses to this thread one refrains from using examples from centuries ago because they are all outdated and the current times demand new understanding faith and devotion; or else we will fall in the same dogmatic trap that most religions have fallen into today.


 
Good point. Otherwise it just becomes one more symbol if we do not have the true understanding of the Kakaars and practice our Sikhi accordingly.

Thanks for the input.

Tejwant Singh


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## seeker3k (Apr 8, 2009)

Thank you Bawaj Ji,
This is what I was looking for. 
The best reply


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 8, 2009)

bawaj said:


> Until the a person does not understand why we wear a kirpan, he or she should not wear one (This goes for all 5ks). One cannot understand the intrinsic qualities associated with being a Khalsa at a young age. Many times people may take amrit but dont know why... parents pressure, community pressure, etc. As a result are unaware of what sikhi is. If grownups cant understand true nature of sikhi then how can we expect kids to understand. Kids see the kirpan as a weapon not a symbol.
> 
> *I hope that if there are any reponses to this thread one refrains from using examples from centuries ago because they are all outdated and the current times demand new understanding faith and devotion; or else we will fall in the same dogmatic trap that most religions have fallen into today.*


*
* 

But thats where you are mistaken. Our History is so varied..that we have every situation covered...just as TODAY.

1. The Sons of the first three GURUS...were of ADULT AGE...when they can reason/understand/think for themselves...thye took certain actions. We can live with that.
2. Guru Amardass ji became GURU at the ripe OLD age of 75+..an age when most of us turn SENILE and start acting like small babies...but Bhai Amardass Ji took on the ehavy responsibility of GURU SHIP andguiodng the Panth through a difficult time when the Four ADULT SONS of the previous two GURUS were opposing him tooth and nail. Responcibilty was on Gur Amardass ji to spearhead the RAPID SPREAD of SIKHI..He set up 22 Manjis, 73 Peerhis and did so much work in FIVE YEARS that a young man of 30 cant do in 30. DONT say that...he could do it because He was "GURU"..and so superhuman god or soemthing...that would be an insult.
3. Prithya showed the Raging Jealousy and enmity towards his younger brother Guru Arjun Ji, disrespect towards his father Guru Ramdass Ji..and he was Eldest son of GURU Ramdass Ji and Eldest BRother of Guru Arjun Ji...Born and bred in the home of the GURU..living with *THREE GURUS*..beside him..he turned out absolutley ROTTEN.
Ram Rai turned out no good...Guru harkrioshan Ji took GURUSHIP at AGE 8..and ( dont put this fact to the side by saying..oh he is GURU..and he is special..) 
FACT is GURU and SIKH are the SAME. What GURU can DO..the SIKH can DO..History is PROOF. GURU JI MADE SURE OF THIS.....
4. Fast Forward to Guru Gobind Singh Ji...He sent his father Guru teg babhdur ji to Delhi at age 9...took hold of the reins of the Sikh panth at age 9...His father Martyr, mother martyr, Four Sons martyrs... the two YOUNGEST ones only aged 5 and 7 stood up bravely and couragesly and faced DEATH with HONOUR. The two elder ones also not that OLD..just Teenagers  13 years old and 15 years old fought like Profesisonal soldiers and preferred death on the battlefield rather than surrender like COWARDS.
5. Harkirta Singh aged 7 caught with the Forces of Banda Singh. The Emperor farkhsiyar wnated to release him..mere child...his mother begged the Emperor for his life..saying my son is not a SIKH..he is misguided. Harkirat replied..this lady is lying..she is NOT my mother...I am a SIKH and I want my martyrdom NOW.
6. Namdharees being blown up by the British in front of cannons...One was too short and the cannon flew over his head...he rushed over to a Britisher, knocked off his helmet and placed the helmet and stood ON IT to make up for his shortness..and got blown up as he wished...
7 1947...1960's..1984 and beyond..the story is always the SAME.

There were doubters and apologists and cowards and unreliable untrustworthy and brave and absolutley reliable ones ALL ALONG and in any period. 
Many Called GURU NANAK Pagal...and many more called GURU GOBIND SINGH PAGAL....and went running to Mata Jito Ji saying Guru ji is CUTTING HEADS of his sikhs..who is safe from such madness ??.....SIKHI has no AGE/GENDER/BODY weight/height/strength restrictions....SIKHI is the GAME OF LOVE..Jis ko prem khelan ka chao..Sir dhar tali gali meri ayoh is *BHAGAT KABIR JI *!! Would anyone expect a Bhagat Kabir to say such words... ???

No one is "TOO YOUNG"..or "TOO OLD"..to play this GAME OF LOVE. Period. Sikh HISTORY is solid PROOF. Sikhi is a LIVING religion..no danger of falling into "dogmatic" pits..as there are NONE..except to those who drink even LASSEE by blowing on it fearing they may BURN their tongue !! The world is FULL of such apologists.
Those who FORGET History are forgotten by History.:welcome:      :crazy: NO.


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