# A Pakistani Sikh Exposing Lies Of Baahmanvaadi Media



## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 9, 2010)

Baahmanvaadi media is trying it's best unsucessfuly to bring Sikhs and Muslims at each other's throats through lies.

Here Dr Swaran Singh of Pakistan is exposing their lies:

YouTube- Sikhs in Pakistan


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 9, 2010)

A BBC London clip :

YouTube- SIKH OF PAKISTAN is loved by pakistani people.This video is shows proof of it.


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## Hardip Singh (Feb 10, 2010)

kee_jaana_mein_kaun said:


> Baahmanvaadi media is trying it's best unsucessfuly to bring Sikhs and Muslims at each other's throats through lies.
> 
> Here Dr Swaran Singh of Pakistan is exposing their lies:
> 
> YouTube- Sikhs in Pakistan


 
This is a total lie and a cover up operation. Our Sikhs paid to Taliban to let them live over there. For our Sikh brothers over there, this situation is really frustating, they cant say anything against Talibans even after paying them.


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## harbansj24 (Feb 10, 2010)

Just like you can get any number of Sikhs from Punjab in India to support RSS.
It is really sad that Sikhs all over have been reduced to becoming rank opportunists and paying just lip service to the teachings of Gurus.

Many years ago when Kashmiri Pundits were being targeted and forced to flee the valley, hundreds of prominent members of the community marched to Gurudwara Sis Ganj to pay homage to Guru Tegh Bahadur and highlight their plight which was similar to the Guru's time. But not a single worthy of DSGMC even met the community members let alone talk about extending any help!


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 10, 2010)

Hardip Singh said:


> This is a total lie and a cover up operation. Our Sikhs paid to Taliban to let them live over there. For our Sikh brothers over there, this situation is really frustating, they cant say anything against Talibans even after paying them.


 
He's sitting in Gurdwara and telling lie ?Either you are a kutcha Sikh who does not know the relationship between Sikh and Gurdwara or you are deliberately trying to mislead.

Let us assume for a moment he's telling some percentage of lie.Not a single Sikh has been killed by either Muslim or Pak army.By muslims I did not mean Taliban or favouring such fascist groups,rather I mean the common muslim in Pakistan.But the fact is not even fascist Taliban has killed a single Sikh.

Do you know anything about Chhatispora,Kashmir kand where more than 35 Sikhs were killed on the eve of Bill Clinton's visit to India?
This incident was blamed on so called Muslim militants and some innocent muslims were killed next day.Later on Kashmir police and Indian army conceded that they killed the innocent muslims in fake encounter.

Madeiline Albright ,Secretary of Bill Clinton had revealed in her book that this massacre was conducted by security forces.Even eye witnesses told that the killers were shouting "Jai Hind".Now you people dont try to brush it off as propoganda.Sikhs in Chhatispora know the truth.Baahmanvaadi media can go to any extent to distort various news item but truth will always remain truth.
Let us tell you all the efforts to bring Sikhs and Muslims at each other throats have always failed and will always fail.Muslims have been persecutors of Sikhs in the form of Moghuls,Afghans but at the same time we can and will never forget Muslims associated with Sikhs throughout Sikh history including Peer Budhu Shah who gave his life for Guru Gobind Singh ji or Sain Mian Mir ji who laid the foundation of Darbar Sahib,Amritsar.There are countless such examples.Since 1978 the bahmanvaadi forces have commited such acts which has put the acts of Moghals to shame.Killing 2 lakh Sikhs and then killing even those like advocate Jaswant Singh Khalra who was investigating those massacres and fake encounters is not a joke.

RSS and hindutva forces can put whole of it's media machinery or otherwise to prove that Darbar Sahib,Amritsar is a hindu temple but not a single Sikh is going to believe that.

RSS propoganda has no effect on Punjab Sikhs.Instead they are only wasting their time and money to desperately prove Sikhs are Hindus and are only increasing the bitterness of Punjab Sikhs for RSS and it's offshoots.In turn they are also making us more determined to free ourself from this slavery.

YouTube- MASSACRE OF KASHMIRI SIKHS by Hindutva govt

Some Sikhs may be led astray by this propoganda for some time but ultimately they will realise the truth.

Aj kal kaun kaun apnay aap nu Sikh kehnda asi sab jaanday haan


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 10, 2010)

Hardip Singh said:


> This is a total lie and a cover up operation. Our Sikhs paid to Taliban to let them live over there. For our Sikh brothers over there, this situation is really frustating, they cant say anything against Talibans even after paying them.


 
You forget that if thousands of Sikhs fled Taliban area,millions of Muslims also fled that area to escape shelling by both sides and fear of Taliban.

"Our Sikh brothers"..these words are again against the concept of "Sikhi" ie "Sarbat daa bhaalaa" and again shows your unfounded hatred towards all Muslims due to the baahmanwadi media and RSS day tukkar boch Sikhs(ie those Sikhs who bark for a piece of bread from their masters)

We are neither Muslims nor Hindus and we maintain equal relations with both the communities.

Some RSS people also claim that Pak muslims were once Hindu or Sikhs so our relation with these people becomes special and on equal basis with that with hindus in India.

But if some RSS people including RSS Sikhs and the bahman,bania clan think that they can get these people back into the hindu fold by nazi tactics or cunningness then they are wrong.It will only lead to their own destruction.

The example of nazi Taliban is in front of them.


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 10, 2010)

Sikhs living in Peshawar,the Taliban area :

YouTube- Sikhs in Pakistan-2 (Peshawar)

Sikhs and Muslims are not enemies .But some discrimination by individual groups or govts happens every where be it in India,Pakistan,UK,USA,Australia,France etc.

Moreover,certain events are exaggerated many fold by some people in India including media for their vested interests.


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## AusDesi (Feb 10, 2010)

How good Pakistanis were towards Sikhs can be seen through videos about partition. When they couldn't get money or gold off poor Hindus and Sikhs they just kidnapped their daughters.

Also, If you ever go to Delhi, please go and meet the Afghan sikhs who fled Afghanistan. They will not only explain their treatment but also their treatment in Pakistan on the way to India.


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 10, 2010)

AusDesi said:


> How good Pakistanis were towards Sikhs can be seen through videos about partition. When they couldn't get money or gold off poor Hindus and Sikhs they just kidnapped their daughters.
> 
> Also, If you ever go to Delhi, please go and meet the Afghan sikhs who fled Afghanistan. They will not only explain their treatment but also their treatment in Pakistan on the way to India.


 
How good baahmanvaadis have been to the Sikhs can be seen from what they did from 1978 till today .Now they have started interfering directly in our religion.

Even the 1947 riots took place because of the bahman,baniya clan and their false promises to the Sikhs.Every Sikh and Muslim is regretting this now except for the RSS minded Sikhs who are blinded by the anti Muslim hatred.

I have already mentioned Sikhs are not the only ones who fled from Taliban of Afghanistan and Pakistan .

Have you met those Sikhs from Afghanistan or you heard from your media ?

Have you ever gone to Pakistan with the Sikh jathas or you heard from your media ?

I call this hearsay.You have never made any comment on SPN with any proof.Indian media clips are no proof.


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## kds1980 (Feb 10, 2010)

> Even the 1947 riots took place because of the bahman,baniya clan and their false promises to the Sikhs.Every Sikh and Muslim is regretting this now except for the RSS minded Sikhs who are blinded by the anti Muslim hatred.



Seriously Do you have any knowledge of History? or You just blame RSS for each and every bad thing that happened to sikhs and for your kind information Riots in 46-47 was started by Muslim league by openly stating that they cannot live with other communities.For more information just go and read Muslim leagues direct attack on Hindu's and sikhs by SGPC


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## AusDesi (Feb 10, 2010)

kee_jaana_mein_kaun said:


> How good baahmanvaadis have been to the Sikhs can be seen from what they did from 1978 till today .


If I had to use an Australian saying for you in decent language, it would that your head is so far up your rectum that you don't have a clue of whats happening in the real world. 

I am sure Baamans and other hindus have done plenty of harm to Sikhism but that does not even compete with what the muslims have done to both Hindus and Sikhs. 



> Now they have started interfering directly in our religion.


I am no Sikh historian but i vaguely remember a certain Mughal king wanted the bani to be changed at least 400 years before RSS. 



> Even the 1947 riots took place because of the bahman,baniya clan and their false promises to the Sikhs.Every Sikh and Muslim is regretting this now except for the RSS minded Sikhs who are blinded by the anti Muslim hatred.


So first it was Bahmans and now its the Baniyas as well? 1947 riots were started by Muslims in Naokhali(West Bengal) and parts of Western Punjab. 

Please read up history of a town by the name of Shekhupura. Anyways, in response muslims were killed in Eastern Punjab and other place in India. However, it was the Muslim League who started the rioting in 1946. 



> I have already mentioned Sikhs are not the only ones who fled from Taliban of Afghanistan and Pakistan .


 I know that too. However, you might be interested to know that in Afghanistan Hindus were forced to wear yellow badges to distinguish them. You might remember something similar happening in Europe at one period of time. Btw, Hindus and Sikhs in Afghanistan are a close knit community as they've both faced persecution. 

Anyways, read stories about how Afghani Sikhs are still treated in Afghanistan. How many have gone back? Majority will never leave India. A few will get UN HCR in other countries but none will go back to Afghanistan. 


> Have you met those Sikhs from Afghanistan or you heard from your media ?


 met? I grew up with them. not one, not two. I grew up with at least 25 kids. They all had families and in total their entire community in Faridabad used to number thousands. They eventually moved to other cities for work but I remember in the period between 1993-1996 we had thousands of displaced Afghan Sikhs and Hindus in Faridabad alone. 



> Have you ever gone to Pakistan with the Sikh jathas or you heard from your media ?


 I have never been to Pakistan. Jatthas aren't the only non-muslims in Pakistan. Pakistan's minorities have gone down since partition, its not an accident. 

However, maybe you've forgotten but only recently Sikhs had to pay a ransom to be able to live in some parts of NWFP. 



> I call this hearsay.You have never made any comment on SPN with any proof.Indian media clips are no proof.


haha so all that mumbo jumbo about RSS taking over Punjabi news channels has proof? 

Hearsay is not always false. My grand father told me of stories of katal-e-am in cities all over Western Punjab. He had to get from Multan, Punjab to Indian border. A distance of couple of hundred kilometres. However, atleast half a million Hindus and Sikhs never made it. Technically its hearsay but there is ample proof in books about partition. Go and read it sometime. 

Anyway, lets give you one proof. My friend Jalinder Singh didn't go to school after 10th grade. He couldn't afford it as he grew up in poverty. His father used to sell peanuts on a redi(cart thing), im sure you've seen them in India. Last time I saw him he was too embarrased to talk to me since also worked on the redi. Why was he like this? His whole family had to flee the taliban. He family was rich and had a 3 story house in Khost. His eldest brother was shot openly in the street. His entire community flee to Pakistan where they were made to feel unwelcome because they were not muslims so they migrated to India and this batch happen to move to my hometown of Faridaba, Haryana. 

Technically this is all hear say. I have never been to Pakistan or Afghanistan. The story of his brother getting shot in cold blood could be rubbish. The story about his community being forced to flee under shell fire could be rubbish. There was a guy who we called jangli he was also an afghan or a "kabuli" as we called them. He was mental. He would attack anyone if they said a particular word. That word was "K afir". I'll leave it up to you to use your imagination about why he went berserk over that word. 

Maybe they were all criminals. Maybe the entire community was kicked out because so was everyone else. If you saw their eyes when they described their homes and how they were forced to flee, you would believe it too that they were specifically targetted much more than other pashtuns.


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## harbansj24 (Feb 10, 2010)

Yes just ask the refugee Sikhs from Pakistan. How the Muslim neighbours turned against them. 
It is also a fact that these refugees were helped by the Govt of India to settle down in India by allotting them property against that lost by them in Pakistan and they were also given preference in Govt jobs. Lets not these things be passed over.
Later the Govt might have opposed the Sikhs for their just demands. So these are very complex issues and cannot be treated as black and white.
Yes the Sikhs are welcomed and treated warmly when they visit Pakistan. But that is traditional  Muslim (especially Punjabi) Hospitality. But are you sure that they will not hesitate to stab you when it suits them? 
Our Gurus have repeatedly taught us not to brand or label people based on their religion and castes. So lets not be blinded by hate for for whomsoever by just prejudices.


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 10, 2010)

I know who you 3 are.Do I need to name you ?Unfortunately one of you is a moderator and has indirect support of Admin though Admin may deny this here.But I dont care.

All the ills that the Sikh community is facing is due to RSS and the assimilating attitude of the bahman,bania Aryan nazi clan and their fake so called Sikh supporters.We have proofs of that.

Apart from those proofs anyone with common sense can figure this out.Common sense is that various Punjabi news channels are controlled by Badal(this everyone in Punjab knows).Badal is controlled by BJP which is in turn under RSS.

As regards the big essay Ausdesi has written about NWFP,Khost etc was not neccassary as I have already said I have no sympathy for Taliban.Had the media been like today in the 1980's/90's we would have shown the true face of the Punjab police,Security forces to the whole world and everyone would be spitting on them.Just one video of the Ludhiana goli kaand bought unbelievable reaction .Imagine what would happen if the fake encounters had been shot on camera.

Just to inform you ignorant (or deliberately trying to be ignorant)people.Not only Sikhs but also 90 percent of Pakistan people are against Taliban.Not only this Pakistani people call the Taliban and mehsud gang as "Indian sponsored" agents.There are reports on the internet which claim that some Taliban leaders including Fazalullah and his father in law recieved direct payments into their accounts from across the border.I am not making this up,search on the net for this.

We will call whatever is wrong as wrong.No bahman,baniya or so called supreme Aryan nazi clan can force us to make our opinion according to their wishes or according to what their media claims.

Sikh(Khalsa) Baagi yaa Baadshah but never a slave.We can not be slaves of some one else's principles or ideas or religion even.


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 10, 2010)

harbansj24 said:


> Yes just ask the refugee Sikhs from Pakistan. How the Muslim neighbours turned against them.
> It is also a fact that these refugees were helped by the Govt of India to settle down in India by allotting them property against that lost by them in Pakistan and they were also given preference in Govt jobs. Lets not these things be passed over.
> Later the Govt might have opposed the Sikhs for their just demands. So these are very complex issues and cannot be treated as black and white.
> Yes the Sikhs are welcomed and treated warmly when they visit Pakistan. But that is traditional Muslim (especially Punjabi) Hospitality. But are you sure that they will not hesitate to stab you when it suits them?
> Our Gurus have repeatedly taught us not to brand or label people based on their religion and castes. So lets not be blinded by hate for for whomsoever by just prejudices.


 
Yes you got my point.I am speaking of the general Muslim people not the Taliban or such fascist people.

Are you sure the bahman,bania nazi clan is not "already" stabbing the Sikhs on the back ?

Look at how people in this forum including the previous posters are abusing the whole muslim community in Pakistan.

Sikhs need to understand that RSS and fascist bahman,baniya nazi forces are doing exactly the opposite of what our Gurus taught us.Dont be fooled by their tactics.They want to finish the "Nyaarapan" of the Sikhs in the name of national integration and so called Hindu Sikh unity.Muslims dont use the slogan "Muslim Sikh unity" otherwise I would have said same about them also.

When Guru Nanak ji has declared Sikh is neither Hindu nor Muslim then how can we and who are we to after 500 years bring about that unity ?

Taliban=RSS/VHP/Bajrang dal/Shiv sena/Abhinav Bharat/Hindu Raksha Samiti=Fascists


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 10, 2010)

AusDesi said:


> If I had to use an Australian saying for you in decent language, it would that your head is so far up your rectum that you don't have a clue of whats happening in the real world.
> 
> I am sure Baamans and other hindus have done plenty of harm to Sikhism but that does not even compete with what the muslims have done to both Hindus and Sikhs.
> 
> ...


 
Hindus and Sikhs did the same to Muslims.You talk about after 1984 and after.

By giving references to 1947 you can not negate the muslim contibution towards Sikhism and our Gurus.

It was because of the false promises of the bahman,baniya clan to give a region to Sikhs in "North west India where they could experience the glow of freedom" .So those foolish Sikh leaders sided with this nazi clan and made the whole Sikh kaum to do stherwise there was no enemity between Sikhs and Muslims before partition.

Jinnah had warned the Sikhs that you have so far seen the akritghans as slaves but wait till they get power and he was right.The akritghans have already enslaved the thinking of some percent of the Sikhs outside Punjab but will not be able to do so within Punjab.

A number of low and middle caste Hindus are already supporting our cause.


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## Admin (Feb 10, 2010)

Quote:
 <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset;"> 			 				Unfortunately one of you is a moderator and has indirect support of   Admin though Admin may deny this here. 			 		</td> </tr> </tbody></table> 
Dear (???) Ji,

Stop playing a cry baby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





and Learn to stand up for  your-self without resorting to blame games and flame wars... If you are  spitting venom on others then be prepared to take some as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Everything except personal comments, insults, slurs is allowed on this  forum. If you can not help controlling your hate filled behavior then it  is recommended that you join forums like sikhsangat.com or topix.com.  You will make many friends there.

  Quote:
 <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset;"> 			 				Sikh(Khalsa) Baagi yaa Baadshah but never a slave.We can not be  slaves  of some one else's principles or ideas or religion even. 			 		</td> </tr> </tbody></table> 
A GurSikh can never be enslaved  except with the love for the waheguru but you seem to be hopelessly  enslaved in_ vikaars _(evils) like anger & ego. You need to control both of  these to even qualify being a Gursikh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Gurfateh!


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 10, 2010)

Aman Singh said:


> Dear (???) Ji,
> 
> Stop playing a cry baby :8-and Learn to stand up for your-self without resorting to blame games and flame wars... If you are spitting venom on others then be prepared to take some as well. :advocate:
> 
> ...


 
It seems my shot hit the right place :48:
Sikhsangat.com is full of akritghans,liers and people who use deceptiion and threatening language.

Here at SPN others are spitting venom on me Im not.They dont read my previous posts and keep on referring to the same thing again and again.They keep on calling each of my posts lies and whatever they say as gospel truth.


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## kds1980 (Feb 10, 2010)

> I know who you 3 are.Do I need to name you ?Unfortunately one of you is a moderator and has indirect support of Admin though Admin may deny this here.But I dont care.



Moderators are no special people on this site.Our duty is to ensure when we are online then this site could run smoothly O/W we just participate in discussions as ordinary members.No more powers are given to us and neither we are paid for this job.When any moderator engages in discussion then he is just an ordinary member.


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## Admin (Feb 10, 2010)

You would lament that i am preaching... but for a good discussion environment, it is very important, we talk on the same wavelength. Its like a give and take relationship. You get back in return to what you give to others... Hate begets hate, love begets love, respect begets respect... by simply condemning/labeling a whole Hindu community as RSS agents, you are basically closing all doors for a meaningful dialogue... achievement thus far in this exchange is flame wars, blame games, bad taste, ill feelings... You seem to have a very powerfully blessed weapon of knowledge in your hands, use it wisely... it can be more effective if used wisely...

The thankless job of a moderator is to break the dead lock by trying to bring both the arguing parties on the same wavelength... it may seem like siding or supporting one party or the other but to maintain a right balance, this seems to be the only way as to how this game can be played fairly. 

Thank you for understanding and consideration, 

Gurfateh!

:happysingh:


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 10, 2010)

No I am neither blaming the whole Hindu nor Muslim community for anything.

If you think the bahman,baniya Aryan nazi thinkers are the whole hindu community then I cant help it.

If you(I dont mean Aman Singh) wish to keep quite when our house is burning then it doesn't mean that I'll also keep quite ,be an onlooker and let it happen.

Whether any one thanks me or not it does not matter but I'll not shy away from telling the truth.

If you wish to ban me then you are free to do so.


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## Admin (Feb 10, 2010)

How can one douse a house on fire by writing fiery messages? Fire begets fire... For that we need to take the matter (a bucket of water) in our hands and jump into the burning fire. Being a keyword warrior hardly resolves anything in this real world. The only thing these internet forums can do is create awareness and a common platform to exchange information, your ideas and thoughts... nothing more...

Regards


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 10, 2010)

Aman Singh said:


> How can one douse a house on fire by writing fiery messages? Fire begets fire... For that we need to take the matter (a bucket of water) in our hands and jump into the burning fire. Being a keyword warrior hardly resolves anything in this real world. The only thing these internet forums can do is create awareness and a common platform to exchange information, your ideas and thoughts... nothing more...
> 
> Regards


 
If one portion of the house is completely burnt and finished(I hope you understand what I mean)one will obviously do something to prevent the fire from spreading and use all means like pouring water,foam or if required even severe the burning portion from the rest of the house so that it does not consume the whole house.

At the moment only a portion of the house is on fire not the whole house.

No one on this earth has the ability to burn that house completely.In fact who ever tried to play with fire for burning the house got burnt himself.

Further some of this forum members claim they themselves trained "Hindu militants" and asked them to use "Singh" with their names.

We know all the Sunil Singh Joshis,Navdeep Singh Sharmas roaming around.Some Sikhs might be thinking such people are doing a favour to Sikhs but we know what these people are up to.

How do you know I am only an internet warrior ?


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## spnadmin (Feb 10, 2010)

kee_jaana_mein_kaun ji

You are having some difficulty separating friends from enemies. There are a lot of us here who agree with your point of view, and even more who are impressed by your grasp of the background information. And, Yes, from time to time we have been visited by RSS agents disguised as Sikhs.

But do not torch your allies!

Aman ji is asking that mere disagreement by a forum member on a specific point not be cause for inflammatory charges against the person who disagrees with you. Or that 1,028,610,328 people, and 80 percent of the population of India be tarred with the same brush. Or for that matter 965,211,399 - 970,921,642  Hindus everywhere else in the world, or  14.468% - 14.553% of the world's population. 

I will find  demographics for Muslims later.


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 10, 2010)

I found the original video when it was first posted on youtube :

YouTube- SIKH OF PAKISTAN is loved by pakistani people.This video is shows proof of it.

Just look at the positive numbers given comments under the video on youtube mostly from Pakistan.Has anyone seen so many positive points for other youtube videos ?

We are sorry the negative bahmanvaadi media campaign is failing.This is no longer 1984 where only 1 government controlled channel was manipulated as required.Although these days also various so called "independent" Indian channels are working as govt channels but this is internet age.

False propoganda based on old stories or some individual event will fall on it's face and leave the people doing false propoganda disgraced.

I also believe hatred brings hatred.So the Aryan nazi facists should stop it.

We should remember whether we like it or not,god forbid if some misadventure is done by this side,the other side is not what it used to be earlier.Such rhetoric may bring votes to certain political parties or bring mental satisfaction to some people temporarily but actual action would mean something different.


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 10, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> kee_jaana_mein_kaun ji
> 
> You are having some difficulty separating friends from enemies. There are a lot of us here who agree with your point of view, and even more who are impressed by your grasp of the background information. And, Yes, from time to time we have been visited by RSS agents disguised as Sikhs.
> 
> ...


 
Sat Bachan .

But it seems you are misinformed about number of RSS people or for that matter the percentage of the bahman,baniya clan.They are only small percent of whole of India and have taken whole of India for a ride plus are interfering in Sikhism.


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## spnadmin (Feb 10, 2010)

kee_jaana_mein_kaun said:


> Sat Bachan .
> 
> But it seems you are misinformed about number of RSS people or for that matter the percentage of the bahman,baniya clan.They are only small percent of whole of India and have taken whole of India for a ride plus are interfering in Sikhism.




kee_jaana_mein__kaun ji

But it seems you cannot read. Who posted the number of RSS people or the percentage of the bahman, baniya clan? No one. Only statistics on Hindus are posted above.

If you are making the case that a small number of strident provocateurs have influence beyond their numbers, then say it plainly without throwing out a huge net with big hole that traps the innocent along with the guilty. 

It is really to the credit of the few Hindus who read and post here that a flame war has not already consumed this forum.


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## kds1980 (Feb 10, 2010)

kee_jaana_mein_kaun said:


> A BBC London clip :
> 
> YouTube- SIKH OF PAKISTAN is loved by pakistani people.This video is shows proof of it.



And here is the other side of story

Pakistan's Lone Sikh Traffic Warden Quits (Pakistan)
Pakistan's Lone Sikh Traffic Warden Quits (Pakistan)
Apr 23, 2008
By Staff Writer
The Hindu
The lone Sikh serving as a traffic warden in Pakistan has put in his papers, alleging discrimination in his department.

Gulab Singh resigned a couple of days ago, claiming he was not being treated at par with his colleagues because he was not a Muslim.

He said his colleagues made fun of his religion, while his seniors did not take the issue seriously.

Citing the episode that finally led him to give up his job, Singh said a colleague named Faisal had falsely blamed him for reporting his absence to senior officials.

When he reached his post the next day, another warden named Mubasher misbehaved with him and forcibly took off his turban, Singh told the Daily Times.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.sikhnet.com/news/daily-news/pakistans-lone-sikh-traffic-warden-quits
Lahore (PTI): The lone Sikh serving as a traffic warden in Pakistan has put in his papers, alleging discrimination in his department.

Gulab Singh resigned a couple of days ago, claiming he was not being treated at par with his colleagues because he was not a Muslim.

He said his colleagues made fun of his religion, while his seniors did not take the issue seriously.

Citing the episode that finally led him to give up his job, Singh said a colleague named Faisal had falsely blamed him for reporting his absence to senior officials.

When he reached his post the next day, another warden named Mubasher misbehaved with him and forcibly took off his turban, Singh told the Daily Times.

He also alleged that traffic wardens who were present at the spot made fun of him, while his complaint to Inspector Shahid Nadeem failed to elicit any response.

Shortly after the incident, he resigned.

Senior officials in the traffic police department said an inquiry was being conducted into the incident and a show cause notice had been issued to Mubasher.

Singh's colleagues, on the other hand, claimed he had been threatening to quit ever since he was recruited.

They said he had an "attitude problem" and a history of picking fights with colleagues.

Deputy Superintendent of Police Ichra Shehzad Khan said, "The matter will be resolved within the next two days as senior officers are personally looking into the matter."


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 10, 2010)

YouTube- Sikhs in Pakistan. Dedication to Anchalpaker.mp4

Fighting between colleagues of different religion are common here in India also.But the general public liked Gulab Singh which is clear from the record positive comments this video recieved on youtube..Moreover that is a BBC urdu report not from any biased channel.My dad who was in central govt service was subjected to this humiliation after Bluestar by his hindu colleagues.

Similarly a number of so called militants were highly educated or wards of central and state govt Sikh employees.Some were victims of 1984 anti Sikh pogroms.One of them being national level player Surjit Singh Penta who consumed cyanide in front of doordarshan cameras during Operation Thunderstorm.Some were serving police personel.Actually many of those policemen who killed innocent Sikhs in fake encounters for the sake of Bharat mata are now repenting because the akritghans have used and forgotten them.

This time they will not get any policeman for doing fake encounter.

Baahman,bania clan occupies 60% of top posts in IAS,IPS nowadays while just 20 years back they occupied just 3%. 
*
This is totally unacceptable language. Edited. Debate issues and get on with it. Instead of taking this conversation down. *Narayanjot Kaur

Varun Gandhi made fun of Sikhs in the last elections suddenly he is worried about Sikhs in another country.


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## AusDesi (Feb 10, 2010)

kee_jaana_mein_kaun said:


> Hindus and Sikhs did the same to Muslims.You talk about after 1984 and after.
> 
> By giving references to 1947 you can not negate the muslim contibution towards Sikhism and our Gurus.
> 
> ...



Hindus and Sikhs did the same in RESPONSE. They never wanted to start riots, most Hindus and Sikhs never wanted India to be divided. 

You can also not negate Hindu contribution to Sikhism particularly from the Khatri and Mohyal castes. There are many "bhai"s of Sikhism who were of "bahman" heritage. You're offending them more so than brahmins in Banaras. 

Anyways, Jinnah's promises were not even fulfiled in his own nation. I doubt he would have fulfilled them for Sikhs. The promise of a muslim nations which would guarantee the rights of minorities was never kept. All minorities have reduced in percentage in Pakistan while its the opposite in India. Ask the Shias how safe they feel in Pakistan compared to India. 

Pakistan was made to secure the rights of Zamindars. If you were a Zamindar in Pakistan, your life is pretty good. 


I am not sure what your cause exactly is but whatever it is good luck with it.


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 10, 2010)

Could you great scholars inform as to why the Anand Marriage Act(Sikh's own act ) has been implemented in Pakistan and not India ?

When so called Foreign country can recognise  Sikhs as a distinct ,unique religion from Muslim then why are Sikhs clubbed as Hindus in Article 25 of the Indian constitution ?

Why has Prakash Badal who at one time tore down the Article 25 to gain Sikh votes now back tracked .What is the secret behind this ?

YouTube- Sikhs Welcome Pakistan's decision to bring Anand Karaj Act


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## Hardip Singh (Feb 11, 2010)

kee_jaana_mein_kaun said:


> He's sitting in Gurdwara and telling lie ?Either you are a kutcha Sikh who does not know the relationship between Sikh and Gurdwara or you are deliberately trying to mislead.
> 
> Let us assume for a moment he's telling some percentage of lie.Not a single Sikh has been killed by either Muslim or Pak army.By muslims I did not mean Taliban or favouring such fascist groups,rather I mean the common muslim in Pakistan.But the fact is not even fascist Taliban has killed a single Sikh.
> 
> Do you know anything about Chhatispora,Kashmir kand where more than 35 Sikhs were killed on the eve of Bill Clinton's visit to India?


 
Dear kee-jaana jee,
Thanks for your promt response. But how you had concluded me being a kutcha Sikh????????????
Hunderds of examples are there in the Sikh history where our great leaders and even some sikhs, while in the presence of SGGS jee, have delibrately lied to the sangat and made false statements. Its a fact. 
*What I had meant by my post was that this particluar Sikh has been used by the Pak's official media to project the Pak Govt.'s handling of the situation arisen out of this mass displacement fof Sikhs from Swat and other regions.* Even after paying them the rensoms or the so called ZAZIYA tax , still they are not at all in a position to accept their payment of rensoms in front of the Govt. as they had to be back to their native places in the future where again they can encounter the same problem by Talibans. 
Next, 
let me confirm you and the sangat, 
THAT I am an amritdhari Sikh and a true follower of Guru SGGS's teachings. Whether I am Kutcha or Pucka Sikh is all known to HIM , the ALLMIGHTY and I dont need any certificate from bretherns.
THAT I have no enmity towards Muslims but Not the Talibans, who are the real extremists.


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 11, 2010)

AusDesi said:


> Hindus and Sikhs did the same in RESPONSE. They never wanted to start riots, most Hindus and Sikhs never wanted India to be divided.
> 
> You can also not negate Hindu contribution to Sikhism particularly from the Khatri and Mohyal castes. There are many "bhai"s of Sikhism who were of "bahman" heritage. You're offending them more so than brahmins in Banaras.
> 
> ...


 
I dont have any regrets whatsoever about what I said about the bahman,bania clan.

The only regret I have is that it took and is still taking some people a lot of time to recognise their reality and their nefarious designs towards other communities.


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 11, 2010)

Hardip Singh said:


> Dear kee-jaana jee,
> Thanks for your promt response. But how you had concluded me being a kutcha Sikh????????????
> Hunderds of examples are there in the Sikh history where our great leaders and even some sikhs, while in the presence of SGGS jee, have delibrately lied to the sangat and made false statements. Its a fact.
> *What I had meant by my post was that this particluar Sikh has been used by the Pak's official media to project the Pak Govt.'s handling of the situation arisen out of this mass displacement fof Sikhs from Swat and other regions.* Even after paying them the rensoms or the so called ZAZIYA tax , still they are not at all in a position to accept their payment of rensoms in front of the Govt. as they had to be back to their native places in the future where again they can encounter the same problem by Talibans.
> ...


 
Dear Hardip Singh veer,

Please read carefully I did not CONCLUDE that you are kutcha Sikh.

*If I am not mistaken I removed insulting language toward another forum member about 5 minutes ago. Now it has re-appeared. If this happens again, then school is out. Narayanjot Kaur.* 
It is good you dont have enemity towards common Muslims but the hindutva forces want us to have enemity towards not only Muslims but any community which the hindutva forces think they dont like after them and dont recognise our religion as a seperate one .

There was nothing insulting in that sentence as I had no intention of insulting Mr Hardeep Singh.I only quoted an earlier mentioned sentence again.You can send it to Hardeep Singh and ask if he felt it was insulting or not !
Im surprised at the way portion of each of my posts are arbitrarily deleted whereas others keep addressing me as "YOU" .


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## AusDesi (Feb 11, 2010)

kee_jaana_mein_kaun said:


> I dont have any regrets whatsoever about what I said about the bahman,bania clan.
> 
> The only regret I have is that it took and is still taking some people a lot of time to recognise their reality and their nefarious designs towards other communities.



Well tbh I like this. Your hate is really starting to show clearly. Earlier it was Bahmans now its Banias as well. We only now have to wait for Chattri/kshatriyas and Finally Ahir and then you will be hating all communities in India bar Dalits. Then it will be the dalits. 

Haters have no community. You're one of them.


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## dalbirk (Feb 11, 2010)

Kee Jaana Mein Kaun Ji ,
                            It seems that you too have fallen for Congress Propaganda ( Spokesman , Ghagga , Kala Afghana etc ) The pseudo-secular Congress is just good at making people emotionally charged , many of the blames can be put on RSS ( BJP ,Badal ) etc but it is blindly foolish to paint all Hindus with the same brush . Hindus & Sikhs are brothers , infact most of the Hindus I know do not have any thing towards Hinduism even , they all are concerened about their personal safelty , well being only . Hindu philosophy is like this only , each one wants progress for his own self , but not by pushing others down . Except for the religionist Brahminists ( & fascist Hindu Mass Media controlled by them ) whose livlihood depends on dividing & misleading people , there is a rare Hindu who hates Sikhs . Though I agree Sonia Gandhi is thousand times better than Indira( cruel & autocrat ) & Rajeev ( the mass murderer ) maybe she no longer has the support of Brahminist Hindus & she depends wholly on minorities like Muslims , Christians , Sikhs , Secular Hindus & Dalits .


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 11, 2010)

AusDesi said:


> Well tbh I like this. Your hate is really starting to show clearly. Earlier it was Bahmans now its Banias as well. We only now have to wait for Chattri/kshatriyas and Finally Ahir and then you will be hating all communities in India bar Dalits. Then it will be the dalits.
> 
> Haters have no community. You're one of them.


 
*Hatred brings hatred. *So stop hating Muslims by talking against them and Sikhs by interfering in our religion and claiming Sikhs are Hindus.

Do I need to repeat the story of Muslims and Jews,who are from the same descendant and sworn enemies now, once again ?

It is the bahman,bania nazi rascist clan whom Im against, those who wish to finish the "nyaarapan" of the Sikhs and wish us to blindly hate any community which they hate ,for example,the muslims.

Even Guru Gobind Singh ji told a bahman "Khatri ko puut hon,bahman ko nahi" when the pandit repeatedly try to claim "you are from us" .

From now onwards no one will address me as "YOU" in this forum.

Rules are equal for all forum members.


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 11, 2010)

dalbirk said:


> Kee Jaana Mein Kaun Ji ,
> It seems that you too have fallen for Congress Propaganda ( Spokesman , Ghagga , Kala Afghana etc ) The pseudo-secular Congress is just good at making people emotionally charged , many of the blames can be put on RSS ( BJP ,Badal ) etc but it is blindly foolish to paint all Hindus with the same brush . Hindus & Sikhs are brothers , infact most of the Hindus I know do not have any thing towards Hinduism even , they all are concerened about their personal safelty , well being only . Hindu philosophy is like this only , each one wants progress for his own self , but not by pushing others down . Except for the religionist Brahminists ( & fascist Hindu Mass Media controlled by them ) whose livlihood depends on dividing & misleading people , there is a rare Hindu who hates Sikhs . Though I agree Sonia Gandhi is thousand times better than Indira( cruel & autocrat ) & Rajeev ( the mass murderer ) maybe she no longer has the support of Brahminist Hindus & she depends wholly on minorities like Muslims , Christians , Sikhs , Secular Hindus & Dalits .


 
Congress,BJP,Badal dal,Communist,Janata,Samajwadi etc etc are all the same .
Translate All India Congress party to hindi,it is Akhil Bhartiya Jan Sangh which is the same as Bhartiya Jan Sangh which is the mother of BJP.

All are playing a friendly match of opposing rhetoric(only opposing speeches )just to fool the minorities.Sikhs and other minorities have been fooled like this since 1947.

It is surprising by now you have not realised who I support .I dont support any of the above parties .Many in Punjab have realised there is no use supporting any traditional parties as all have the same "bahmvandi RSS soch" so in the present political system interference in our affairs will continue .

Nothing short of freedom will be able to look after the aspirations of the Sikh and Punjabi community.If you are in Punjab then come to Fatehgarh Sahib tommorow ie 12 February,2010 and see for yourself the anger which the Sikh community has for the Indian state.
Call me desh drohi I dont care but we will use all means including International pressure to gain freedom which is our birth right

No one can stop our voice by mass arrests and torture and large scale misuse of the media.This is no longer a laughing matter.Shaheeds of a kaum lay the foundation of freedom but our shaheeds have surpassed all records ie around 2 lakhs.Each and every Amritdhari was killed from 1984 to 1994.
Indian state said "muthi bhar aatankvaadi Pakistan kee sheh per aatankvaad phailaa rahay hain" saying this they killed 2 lakh Amritdharis and their family supporters.These people had nothing to do with Pakistan.


YouTube- Khalistan: The Interview of Bhai Daljit Singh Bittu

YouTube- DIVIDE INDIA  4 khalsistan (MUST WATCH)


This is what is meant by bahman,bania nazi clan(bahmanvaad).Hindu word exists nowhere not even in the vedas.Also listen to which all are not included amongst them in India.The following speech was given in front of Punjabi Indian journalist Kuldeep Nayyar :​ 

YouTube- Khalistan is our birth right-3


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 11, 2010)

dalbirk said:


> Kee Jaana Mein Kaun Ji ,
> It seems that you too have fallen for Congress Propaganda ( Spokesman , Ghagga , Kala Afghana etc ) The pseudo-secular Congress is just good at making people emotionally charged , many of the blames can be put on RSS ( BJP ,Badal ) etc but it is blindly foolish to paint all Hindus with the same brush . Hindus & Sikhs are brothers , infact most of the Hindus I know do not have any thing towards Hinduism even , they all are concerened about their personal safelty , well being only . Hindu philosophy is like this only , each one wants progress for his own self , but not by pushing others down . Except for the religionist Brahminists ( & fascist Hindu Mass Media controlled by them ) whose livlihood depends on dividing & misleading people , there is a rare Hindu who hates Sikhs . Though I agree Sonia Gandhi is thousand times better than Indira( cruel & autocrat ) & Rajeev ( the mass murderer ) maybe she no longer has the support of Brahminist Hindus & she depends wholly on minorities like Muslims , Christians , Sikhs , Secular Hindus & Dalits .


 
Just ask any hindu to say "Sant Bhindranwale Zindabad","Khalistan Zindabad" or even "Raj Karega Khalsa" openly ,you will know who hates who.Sant Bhindranwale was asking for rights of Punjab,not only Sikhs.

They force every one including Sikh childrent o say "Jai Hind" "Bharat Mata kee Jai" in every school.If they have so much regard for Sikhs then why not "Raj Karega Khalsa" ?

Nothing for Punjab can be expected from pagridhari baahmans Manmohan Singh and Badal.Please list their contributions for Punjab.

First of all India is a "Unified states of India" where states have been unified into India by force.Each corner is having tendency to seperate.Kashmir,Khalistan,whole of North East,Tamil,Naxalites.

If the bahman,bania nazi clan has so much power which they keep showing on TV then why are thousands of kms of Aksai chin are with China ?
Why are 40,000 kms of Indian territory under naxalite rule ?
Why has the butcher of Punjab KP Gill (whom the bahman bania clan calls "Super cop" for eliminating a whole generation of Amritdharis)surendered before naxalites and returned saying he cant control them ?

Just remember that it was economic factors which led to collapse of India's pal Soviet Union.Mass killings by the vedic fascists and the consequences have led to financial crisis in India.


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 11, 2010)

The bottom line is Sikhs want to have relations with other communities based on "mutual respect"(from both sides) only.There is nothing known as "Hindu Sikh unity" or "Sikh Muslim unity" or "Hindu Muslim unity".All these are misnomers.I'll again say the day "Hindu Sikh unity" is complete Sikhism will finish ,which can never happen.We are deadly against this.This was the main reason for all the fight since 1978 but the state thought by killing 2 lakh Sikhs the problem will finish but nothing can ever be solved by killing instead of solving the problem.The new generation of Sikhs in Punjab as well abroad are much more informed and more determined than the earlier generation .

Sikh's are no one's enemies but will leave no one who interferes in their religion be it Moghal,Afghan,English or now Bahmanvaad.

Interference in the religious affairs by anyone Hindu,Muslim,Christian etc is intolerable for any Sikh.

The Bahman Bania fascist clan will have to pay for this interference in Sikh affairs and for all the genocide committed since 1978 in the same way as the Moghals,Afghans had to pay earlier which culminated in the Sikh Raaj.


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## AusDesi (Feb 11, 2010)

kee_jaana_mein_kaun said:


> *Hatred brings hatred. *So stop hating Muslims by talking against them and Sikhs by interfering in our religion and claiming Sikhs are Hindus.


I don't hate muslims. That doesn't mean I should forget things that muslims have done to people of other religions. 



> Do I need to repeat the story of Muslims and Jews,who are from the same descendant and sworn enemies now, once again ?


Actually they are not. I have never come across a Jew who wanted all muslims to die. On the contrary, many muslims I knew hated the jews to the end. Muslims take it the wrong way. Its not a Jewish-Muslim problem.

There are more Jews than Israel and more Muslims than Palestine. 



> It is the bahman,bania nazi rascist clan whom Im against, those who wish to finish the "nyaarapan" of the Sikhs and wish us to blindly hate any community which they hate ,for example,the muslims.


Thats the RSS types. You assume everyone hates them like that. I mean personally for someone like me hating muslims would be pretty ironic considering I am learning to read Nastaliq so I can read Sufi poetry. 

Hating two entire castes because of the actions of a few speak a lot about your personality. 



> Even Guru Gobind Singh ji told a bahman "Khatri ko puut hon,bahman ko nahi" when the pandit repeatedly try to claim "you are from us" .


I went through this quote on the net. Not everyone explains it as you do. From what I read he meant he will take up arms in a critical situation rather than praying for the best. I don't think that is offensive to Brahmins themselves. 



> From now onwards no one will address me as "YOU" in this forum.
> 
> Rules are equal for all forum members.


What are people supposed to address you as. Please do tell me, My liege.


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## ballym (Feb 11, 2010)

My 4 cents:
1. Those of you who have practical working life experiences, must have noticed the difference in behaviour of a person when he/she is of same level as you and when he/ she is promoted and made your boss.( Hindu majority getting freedom and power!!).
 The behaviour of an undeserving person is to show off the power and that may have happened after 1947 till now. A person truely deserving the promotion is generally humble( my idea).
 My point is that all people at the time of our Gurus and during freedom struggle were simple people... like the one we have now. Some of them took action and are remembered now as hero or villians( bad people). We should judge them by practical yardstick.
 It was natural for moughals to oppose us  because of the influence and richness of the area under sikh influence.
 Now it is natural for muslim to show affection ... may be to fight a proxy war against India. Look at bigger picture.... Will any muslim or even true christian( to some extent) ever agree to give power to sikh? Their granths strictly deny this. For muslims, we are kaafirs and for christians, Jesus is the only son of God and this son only can take you to his home. He only knows which road to take( I am not adding this.... Their church people say so).


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## kee_jaana_mein_kaun (Feb 12, 2010)

Aus Desi wrote :



> I don't hate muslims. That doesn't mean I should forget things that muslims have done to people of other religions.


*Sikhs have suffered more than any community from Moghals but that doesn't mean we'll forget and start disrespecting Peer Budhu Shah ji,Saayin Mian Mir ji,Baba Farid ji,Bhagat Kabir ji.*
*Most of Pakis claim that India is helping Pak Taliban,Balochis and in Sindh.You will not believe because your govt and media deny this.*
*It does not mean other religions will forget what the hindutva brigades have done to them and how most hindus and GOI is directly or indirectly supporting them.*



> Actually they are not. I have never come across a Jew who wanted all muslims to die. On the contrary, many muslims I knew hated the jews to the end. Muslims take it the wrong way. Its not a Jewish-Muslim problem.
> 
> There are more Jews than Israel and more Muslims than Palestine.


 
*Same is the case between Hindus and Sikhs.*



> Thats the RSS types. You assume everyone hates them like that. I mean personally for someone like me hating muslims would be pretty ironic considering I am learning to read Nastaliq so I can read Sufi poetry.
> 
> Hating two entire castes because of the actions of a few speak a lot about your personality.


*I assume nothing ,their own writings and actions reveal their inner side.Yes ,the same speak a lot about your personality*

Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Even Guru Gobind Singh ji told a bahman "Khatri ko puut hon,bahman ko nahi" when the pandit repeatedly try to claim "you are from us" . </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I went through this quote on the net. Not everyone explains it as you do. From what I read he meant he will take up arms in a critical situation rather than praying for the best. I don't think that is offensive to Brahmins themselves. 

[/quote]
*RSS propoganda,you must have asked some mahakaal kaa Sikh.Ask any true Akaal Purkh kaa Sikh who has knowledge of Guru Granth Sahib he will explain it to you properly.*
*Do you have more knowledge than Sant Bhindranwale who quoted this in one of his speeches.Whether any one likes him or not,he was a scholar in Sikhism.*


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## AusDesi (Feb 12, 2010)

kee_jaana_mein_kaun said:


> *RSS propoganda,you must have asked some mahakaal kaa Sikh.Ask any true Akaal Purkh kaa Sikh who has knowledge of Guru Granth Sahib he will explain it to you properly.*
> *Do you have more knowledge than Sant Bhindranwale who quoted this in one of his speeches.Whether any one likes him or not,he was a scholar in Sikhism.*



It doesn't make a difference to me either way. I am not Sikh and that Particular quote has no effect on my beliefs.


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