# Public Relations Nightmare Caused By So-called Khalistani Sikhs



## Archived_Member16 (Apr 16, 2010)

*Here is a prime example how so called Khalistani Sikhs create 'public relations' nightmare for their community. Of course this gives the Government of India (including the Prime Minister ) and the RAW agency to make strong representations to other countries! A fair number of Sikhs do endorse such actions of the Khalistani Sikh, without understanding the consequences of such events & how it impacts the rest of the community, and in turn we tend to blame the news media for publishing such 'negative' material!

Harbhajan S. Sangha* 
 
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source: Vaisakhi parade risky for MP Ujjal Dosanjh and MLA Dave Hayer: organizer


* Vaisakhi parade risky for MP Ujjal Dosanjh and MLA Dave Hayer: Organizer*

*Pair told to avoid Surrey Sikh festival*
 By LORI CULBERT and Jonathan Fowlie, Vancouver Sun - April 16, 2010

Vaisakhi parade organizers say Liberal MP Ujjal Dosanjh and B.C. Liberal MLA Dave Hayer are not invited to attend the annual Surrey event — and if they do show up, they'll be responsible for their own safety.

Inderjit Singh Bains, an organizer of the parade, made the comments Thursday morning on The Gurvinder Dhaliwal Show on the Sher-E-Punjab radio station.

Both Dosanjh and Surrey Mayor Dianne Watts lodged complaints with the RCMP Thursday after being contacted by The Vancouver Sun, which obtained an English transcript of the radio show commentary.

In a telephone interview later, Bains said it was the decision of the committee organizing the parade not to invite Dosanjh or Hayer and, therefore, it was not the organizers' responsibility to ensure the politicians' safety if they decide to attend.

No one else's security would be an issue at the parade, he added.

"Just only two persons," said Bains. "Everybody else is no problem."

He noted on the radio show that all the floats in Saturday's parade will carry the flag of Khalistan, and display photos of "Sikh martyrs."

Dosanjh, a moderate who has distanced himself from such fundamentalist views, is a longtime critic of Sikh extremism who was severely injured in a February 1985 beating by a suspected member of the International Sikh Youth Federation, a banned terrorist group.

He said he has never been to the parade and has no plans to go.

However, he has lodged complaints with the RCMP's protective services unit and the RCMP detachment in Richmond, where the radio station is located.

"I'm somewhat shocked and disappointed that they would issue what appears to be implicit threats against people like myself, who are absolutely peace-loving," Dosanjh said in an interview from Ottawa.

"This is intimidation and I don't believe in this day and age a Canadian parliamentarian... should have to put up with these nonsensical threats."

Gurvinder Dhaliwal, the host of the radio show on which Bains was speaking, denied the comments were meant to be a threat.

He recalled Bains saying that Dosanjh and Hayer were not invited because they create controversy by making negative statements about slogans in the parade.

If they attended the parade and had disagreements with people of different viewpoints, then it would be up to the politicians to settle those disputes, Dhaliwal recalled Bains saying on his show.

"If [Dosanjh and Hayer] want to come they can come, but their safety and security, they are [responsible] for that because organizers and all the people are not happy with them and their statements," Dhaliwal said.

Watts called that position nonsense, and contacted RCMP Chief Supt. Fraser MacRae, head of the Surrey detachment, who has planned a meeting today with parade officials.

City hall staff has been working for a year on the popular parade, and organizers have vowed there would be no problems or controversial floats, Watts said.

She said she did not know Bains, and that he was not one of the people city hall had been speaking with about the parade.

"This is absolute nonsense where the rhetoric gets ramped up right before the event," she said.

"This is something that will not be tolerated. This is a community event . . . not a political event."

She said there were no problems at the parade last year and she does not fear for her own safety while attending it.

Hayer — son of Indo-*Canadian Times publisher Tara Singh Hayer, who was gunned down in 1998 while he was on the Air India witness list — also vowed to file a police complaint.

"These roads the parades go on are public roads, paid for by the taxpayers. They can maybe have their own personal views inside the temple, but once they go in a public place they have to respect the Canadian Charter of Rights," Hayer said.

"To me, what [Bains] has done is try to promote people to cause problems at the parade rather than try to unite the people and show respect.

"It's always shocking to me. When you look at the birth of Khalsa, Vaisakhi Day is something to celebrate cultures and celebrate religion instead of trying to damage the reputation of the Sikh community."

An estimated 80,000 people attend the Vaisakhi parade each year in Surrey, making it one of the largest outside India. Vaisakhi Day marks both the new year and the anniversary of one of Sikhism's most important events, the establishment of Khalsa in 1699.

However, last year the organizers' stage included some controversial images, such as posters depicting the assassins of former Indian prime minister Indira Gandhi as martyrs.

lculbert@{censored}
jfowlie@{censored}


With files from Kim Bolan

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun


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## ballym (Apr 16, 2010)

Great leaders.Wake up. It is 21st century. Why do we seek protection by asking for purity, quality. Is this quality we are looking for? Prove by facts. mere rhetoric is not good. Guru Nanak Devji asked us to prove by action. kirat karo... I am sure he never asked for such actions by so called pures issueing threats.


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## spnadmin (Apr 16, 2010)

ballym said:


> Great leaders.Wake up. It is 21st century. Why do we seek protection by asking for purity, quality. Is this quality we are looking for? Prove by facts. mere rhetoric is not good. Guru Nanak Devji asked us to prove by action. kirat karo... I am sure he never asked for such actions by so called pures issueing threats.




This is one of those times when words fail me. This stands out, City hall staff has been working for a year on the popular parade, and  organizers have vowed there would be no problems or controversial  floats, Watts said.

How does someone who apparently does not even represent one of the official organizers accrue the kind of haumei to issue threats to anyone, official status of the threatened not withstanding?

There are a few things right with this article. One is the speedy decision to report the threat issued on the radio to RCMP. The use of all media, including Internet (social media like facebook, forums and email) to menace others and even to coordinate and plan violence, is unmistakable. Everyone has to start making law enforcement aware every time it happens.  If we do not,  there will be no way left to express unpopular or controversial views, no way left to know who is friend and who is not, and no way to assemble as people with a common spirit. No more parades for holy days where an entire community feels they are friends.


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## Tejwant Singh (Apr 16, 2010)

First and foremost, Kim Bolan is anti Sikhs.So whatever she writes should betaken with a bag of salt. She lied about going to Ferozepore to investigate the Kanishka bombing and claimed to interview my Mum which is false. Only BBC interviewed her.

Kim Bolan had already written a 16 page spread about Ripudaman Singh Malik before the verdict was announced because she claimed to have had the inside information that only Malik would be convicted. I was there and heard her talking to her editor over the phone what to do with the spread after the the rightful decision of NOT GUILTY was announced by the honourable judge.

Secondly Ujjal Dosanjh, although belonging to a Sikh heritage is not a visible Sikh and is rather anti Sikhs.

One is innocent before proven guilty even in Canada but that is not the way he thought. Following is what he said:



> Ujjal         Dosanjh, the Premier of British Columbia, who had responsibility  for the Air India investigation while he was Attorney- General, also  saw the arrests as the beginning of the end of an unresolved piece of  Canadian justice.
> “I think  people of British Columbia, people of Canada, would finally heave a sigh  of relief that the largest crime, the most significant crime in the  history of Canada, is going to be finally dealt with,” said Mr         Dosanjh, a native of India and Canada’s first Indo-Canadian  premier.


*Kanishka crash
         15 years, $ 30 m to investigate Canada’s largest crime...
Tribune News  Service*
*http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/20001029/main2.htm
*​

Lastly why would Dosanjh and Hayer need some kind of protection when Sikhi is celebrating the birth of Khalsa?

What  are they guilty of and have to be protected rather than becoming part and parcel of the sea of the celebrants?

After all Vaisakhi is the time to celebrate.

Tejwant Singh


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## Archived_Member16 (Apr 17, 2010)

source: 
http://www.news919.com/news/national/article/45984--dosanjh-not-invited-campbell-wants-apology-before-attending-sikh-parade

*Dosanjh not invited: Campbell wants apology before attending Sikh parade *




THE CANADIAN PRESS
2010/04/16
*VANCOUVER, B.C.* - B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell says he won't be taking part in the annual Vaisakhi parade in Surrey, B.C., on Saturday unless organizers apologize for controversial remarks about Liberal MP Ujjal Dosanjh and one of his own provincial backbenchers. 

Campbell was responding to reports that one of the organizers told a Punjabi-language radio station that the two Sikh politicians were not welcome at the annual parade, and would need security if they did come. 

"Obviously, it's totally unacceptable in Canada that anyone would say those things about a public official," Campbell said in response to questions from reporters on Friday. 

The premier said the annual Sikh parade is a religious celebration, and one he was happy to be a part of in Vancouver last weekend. Campbell has been invited to the parade this Saturday but he may not be there.

"Right now, I'm not expecting to go. I would have to hear an awful lot from the organizers of the parade with regard to what actually it is that they think they're trying to accomplish," Campbell said. 

"Unless there has been a direct apology to the two individuals that were mentioned, I would find it difficult agreeing to go."

At least two complaints were made to RCMP about the comments by one of the parade organizers, Inderjit Singh Bains, on Sher-E-Punjab radio on Thursday. 

During part of the show hosted by Gurvinder Dhaliwal, Bains spoke about the importance of honouring the Sikh faith and some logistics of the Surrey, B.C., parade that draws tens of thousands of people.

"Everybody's invited except those who've been excluded," he said of the event that would include security for some participants. 

"Everyone (is invited) except . . . two people - Ujjal Dosanjh and Dave Hayer," he said. "We've never invited them. If they come they should bring their own security." 

Politicians and members of the Sikh religion make speeches at the parade that includes music and food and also celebrates the beginning of the harvest season in Punjab. 

"Those who have been excluded, and Dave Hayer and Ujjal Dosanjh, are not invited on the stage." 

Both Dosanjh and Hayer have been outspoken critics of the violence that divided B.C.'s Sikh community in the 1980s, when Sikh separatists are blamed for the bombings of two government-owned Air India planes, killing 331 people. 

In 1985, Dosanjh was beaten by supporters of the separatist movement, and Hayer's father, journalist Tara Singh Hayer, was gunned down in November 1998. 

RCMP Const. Peter Neily said police were aware of the controversy and the complaints, but he said they have had a good relationship with the parade organizers and expect a peaceful community event on the weekend. 

"From what I understand, the speaker of those comments is not somebody we've been dealing with," Neily said. "We continue to have a great relationship with the organizing committee and we're committed to this event being a safe a family friendly event." 

Gurvinder Dhaliwal, the host of the talk show, said the comments were overblown. 

He said Bains was only saying that Dosanjh and Hayer were not invited to speak at the event, though other politicians were. 

"There was not any threat," he said Friday. "The only thing is that they never invited them and this time, again, they're not inviting them. 

"There are more than 100,000 people. Not everyone is invited as a special guest." 

For his part, Dosanjh said he has never attended the parade in Surrey and had no intention of going this year. He was at the parade in Vancouver, where he lives, last weekend. 

The Liberal MP said he did not hear the broadcast, and did not have a transcript. He didn't make a complaint to RCMP, but did bring it to their attention. 

"We referred the matter to the RCMP," he said. "My view was the police should know, they ought to know. This is not isolated in my situation, it's been happening over the years."


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## Archived_Member16 (Apr 17, 2010)

source: http://www.{censored}/news/Watts+walks+away+from+Surrey+Vaisakhi+celebration+after+martyr+float+appears/2920275/story.html
　
*Watts walks away from Surrey Vaisakhi celebration after martyr float appears*

By Rebecca Lindell, Vancouver - SunApril 17, 2010

*METRO VANCOUVER* - Surrey city council will review if annual Vaisakhi celebrations comply with city policy after a controversial political float depicting Sikh "martyrs" unexpectedly showed up in Saturday's parade.

The float flies flags of Khalistan, a proposed-nation state encompassing the Punjabi region of India, and displays pictures of Sikh martyrs, some of whom are members of groups Canada considers terrorist organizations.

"We had assurances by the organizers that that float was not going to be in there, and lo-and-behold, it showed up, which was really disappointing," said Surrey's mayor, Dianne Watts, who left the parade route when she heard the float would be coming by.

The parade's political foray could mean changes in the future. The city provides permits for parades as long as they benefit the community and are not political.

"When it begins to shift and change, then it goes against the policies of the city and that's what we are going to have to re-evaluate," said Watts, who eventually returend to the parade.

The parade already broached the political earlier this week when one of the organizers told a Punjabi radio station that Liberal MP Ujjal Dosanjh and B.C. Liberal MLA Dave Hayer are not invited to the annual event—and if they do show up, they'll be responsible for their own safety.

The remarks prompted Premier Gordon Campbell to boycott the parade.

"It's a religious celebration," the premier told reporters Friday. "It's not a political comment. People are free to express their political positions in Canada but you are not in a position to single out individual elected representatives and say 'they better watch out if they come.' That simply is not acceptable in this country."

Inderjit Singh Bains, an organizer of the parade, told The Vancouver Sun in a Thursday interview that it was the decision of the committee organizing the parade not to invite Dosanjh or Hayer and, therefore, it was not the organizers' responsibility to ensure the politicians' safety if they decide to attend.

Dosanjh lodged a complaint with the RCMP Thursday after being contacted by The Sun, which obtained an English transcript of the radio show commentary.

Temple officials involved in the parade do not believe it is necessary to issue an apology and insisted Friday that everyone is welcome to attend.

Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff jumped into the fray on Saturday demanding an apology for the controversial remarks.

"We must unequivocally condemn all threats of violence and extremism in Canadian communities. No public official, no matter what their political affiliation, should ever be excluded or require security at a public event such as this," Ignatieff said in the statement. "It is appropriate that the organizers extend my colleague Ujjal Dosanjh and BC MLA Dave Hayer an apology."

Ignatieff said the parade's rightful role is a inclusive community celebration.
"It is unfortunate that such an important community celebration has been tarnished by these threats of violence," Ignatieff said.

rlindell@{censored}

_With files from Lori Culbert and Jonathan Fowlie_

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun


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## Tejwant Singh (Apr 18, 2010)

Sikhi is not about radicalism. Sehaj - Gurmat fulcrum can not be obtained through this. The true martyrs were Baba Deep Singh ji, Bhai Mani Singh ji, Bhai Taru Singh ji, the mothers who were forced to wear the garlands made out of their murdered children's pieces around their necks and the others we mention every time we do ardaas. 

We should have floats for them instead.

The rest is nothing but breeding hatred and disdain while flaunting arrogance and ego.

Tejwant Singh


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## spnadmin (Apr 18, 2010)

This nightmare is one of those nightmares that won't quit. Now the important thing is to wake up.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Apr 18, 2010)

I am a Khalistani Sikh.  I ache inside to be among our people in our own land, as was promised to us before "independence."  Perhaps someday, this will be the Hukam of Vaheguru.  I have never killed or beaten anyone except when attacked,nor have I desired to.  Most of the time, I am pretty rational, only rarely do I froth at the mouth.  I believe in free speech and freedom of belief.  I believe others have a right to disagree with me, whether about Khalistan or the Dasam Granth or even whether monas are "real Sikhs."  I have friends who are at complete odds with my beliefs on many levels.  I enjoy hearing opposing views and hearing what others think.  And I have even been known to change my mind when facts previously unknown to me are called to my attention.  It would be nice if we could learn a little elementary tolerance and treat each other with a modicum of respect.  Perhaps we can grow in that direction.

In the meantime, annoying politicians is a high calling, one that I indulge in whenever the opportunity arises.

_When at last your bitter problems all ignore you
And you come out clean and everything is done
And you realise I've been through it all before you
Come down and walk beside me in the sun._

(Bob Lind)


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## Archived_Member16 (Apr 18, 2010)

_source: http://alexgtsakumis.com/2010/04/18/a-vaisakhi-disgrace-pull-the-license-of-the-surrey-vaisakhi-parade-until-the-organizers-thugs-learn-civility-and-the-law/_


_*A Vaisakhi Disgrace: Pull the License of the Surrey Vaisakhi Parade Until the Organizer Thugs Learn Civility and the Law | Alex G. Tsakumis*_


_When I wrote last week about how appalling it is see so many political scandals in the Indo-Canadian community over the years–an otherwise honourable and decent ethnic group, I couldn’t have predicted that one day later, that same community would be adding to the list. _

_For Surrey’s Vaisakhi organizer(s) to suggest that MLA Dave Hayer and MP Ujjal Dosanjh might not want to appear at the parade, because “their safety can’t be guaranteed” is one of the most vile and despicable statements to come from a parade organizer in this province’s history (of celebrating diversity). _

_What an utterly disgusting statement. Vaisakhi, for the uninitiated, is a festival, repeat, festival celebrating the “new harvest.” _

_It is a festival not only attended by Sikhs (as it’s a Sikh celebration) but, too, by Hindus, Catholics, Orthodox, Jews, etc. I attend several Vaisakhi celebrations every year in Vancouver. I have great friends who are Sikhs and Hindus. None of them are violent, none of them are supportive of anything but celebrating every culture and religion this country has to offer. They’re are not good Canadians. They’re GREAT ones. _

_Bless them all. _

_But in Surrey, it is painfully obvious that the thugs organizing this event decided to show the ugly part of their culture–that should not exist. _

_Let’s be clear: The vigorous discussion over Khalistan succession, which is mainly at the root of this, was essentially done in India a decade ago, and most willing to engage in such a discussion, here, over such an issue, either gave up or died long ago (and from natural causes if they were lucky). _

_Except in Surrey, where instead of showing the peacefulness and honour that is a trademark of Sikhism, some organizers decided to prove why immigration rules in this country need serious upgrades. They are battling an ancient problem HERE, in our land, which they clearly do not accept as THEIR land too–all while taking advantage of our freedoms and opportunities. _

_Case in point: Read the following quote VERY carefully. It was uttered by a fellow named Harjinder Singh, President of something called the ‘The Sikh Motorcycle Club of B.C.’ _

_When asked about the CLEARLY veiled threats against Ujjal Dosanjh and Dave Hayer, Mr. Thind, had this to offer. 
*“There was no threat…they (Messers Hayer and Dosanjh) were just not welcome on the stage…anyone can participate in the parade”*​__Okay, no follow-up question by the Global reporter, so let me ask a few here: Why Mr. Thind? Why? Why, you ignoramus stuck in last century, should Mr. Hayer and Mr. Dosanjh not be allowed on stage? Hayer has given your community years of service and Dosanjh was the first Indo-Canadian Premier of this province (in the country!) Do you not feel any pride? Is that not enough of an honour for you Mr. Thind, you contemptible fool? _
_Of course not. _

_I’ll tell you why it all wasn’t enough. Because mindless stooges in the Sikh community don’t like Hayer and Dosanjh’s family histories–of preaching peace and tolerance. Hayer’s father paid for that with his life and Dosanjh was almost beaten to death for those “offensive” messages._

_And if you think that all the younger Sikh’s are repudiating such incredible insanity, think again. Instead of moving the Sikh community to its roots, its PEACEFUL and HONOURABLE roots, the following from a (clearly) young spokesman for the festival parade. _

_When asked if Premier Campbell’s demand for an apology to Mr. Hayer and Mr. Dosanjh was appropriate, considering their lives were indirectly threatened, spokesman Moninder Singh told the CBC: 
*“…no need for an apology…because there was a miscommunication”*​__A miscommunication? _

_Yet another fool. A perfect opportunity to make matters right by repudiating the offensive statements…instead, more horse manure. _

_And the below from a very sweet-looking young girl, who was not identified: 
*“I don’t really believe in that (the threats)…because it’s Vaisakhi and no one should worry about that”*​__****** hell, the inculcation is generational. _

_And this from perpetual gaffe-maker Liberal MP Sukh Dhaliwal, showing once again why the only seat he should have is one outside a barn door: 
*“Those comments that someone made are totally unacceptable.”*​__Great! Then why the hell did you go on stage Mr. Dhaliwal? Why did you not boycott the event in support of your brothers Ujjal and Dave? But this isn’t the first time Dhaliwal has proved a lying hypocrite–it’s part of his charm. _

_Oh, and in case you didn’t get enough of Mr. Thind’s stupidity, here’s how the radicals in the Sikh community react when their grotesque, violent words are questioned. They use their numbers to threaten politicians (only gutless politicians would fall for this, because brave ones would stand up to this ****): _

_*“There are thousands of (provincial) Liberal voters in this parade…(the Premier) boycotting it is a blunder.” *_

_The only blundering {censored} Mr. Thind, is you._

_As for the Premier, the most hated man in B.C. (and for good reason), who knows, damn well, he doesn’t need to worry about ever running again (not unless he wants his party decimated), he finally located his testicles (instead of having them located for him) and made a statement which was fair and appropriate. He was right to ask organizers for an apology and he was right to boycott. _

_But where was Gordon Campbell when B.C.’s Super Mayor, Surrey’s Dianne Watts was under siege a few years ago for refusing to go on stage while the float (which appeared again this year–idiots!) celebrating Sikh extremism by featuring pictures of terrorists connected to the Air India bombing, was included in the parade??? Clearly, the Premier is a fake: Instead of standing up to the extremists then, he folded like a cheap (emphasis on cheap) lawn chair and donned his silk robes, covered his empty cranium and joyfully participated. So, his call for a boycott this year is very, very late. _

_When I asked Mayor Watts why she would attend, she said this, “Because I wanted to give them (the organizers) the benefit of the doubt. I’ve got lots of friends in the community…but they (the organizers) promised that float (the one featuring terrorists) would NOT be included. They promised the City (of Surrey) it wouldn’t happen.” _

_At the end of the proverbial day, this disgrace really must be put to an end–before matters turn really violent. It obviously wouldn’t take much. The Surrey Vaisakhi parade must have its licence pulled indefinitely until they can prove that violence and extremism is not ANY PART of that parade–EVER AGAIN. _

_Otherwise, it badly soils the beauty and peacefulness inherent in being a real Sikh. Doesn’t anyone get that? Where are the rest of the Indo-Canadian politicians in rejecting the insanity?? _

_Considering the spousal abuse and gang-related problems their community has suffered from, you’d think pushing the envelope once more would be the wrong message to send to both Sikhs and non-Sikhs._

_Apparently not. _
_*Shame.*_


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Apr 18, 2010)

I suggest everybody click on the link to the above article and read the comments posted there.  They are an education in themselves.


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## Tejwant Singh (Apr 19, 2010)

I have a suggestion for the next year's Vaisakhi Nagar Keertans that take place outside India in the world over.

We should have floats depicting the pictures of the victims of 1984 holocaust, burned alive with kerosene filled tyres around their necks. The hooligans attacking mercilessly and killing the innocent because they were Sikhs. These are the true martyrs.The pictures of damaged done to Akaal Takaht should also be posted on the  floats too along with a website address which explains everything in details.

The idea of Nagar keertans in the foreign lands is to educate the  peoples of other religions and cultures that we have adapted as ours.

If we have these kinds of floats then, it becomes our duty to invite all the politicians so they can check and are reminded every year about the atrocities that the Sikhs suffered in the hands of the Indian Government.

There is no better PR than this and only by doing this we shall remind ourselves that 1984 will never be forgotten but be shared with those who have no idea about this holocaust, especially the politicians of the respective countries.

Our memory of 1984 will never fade away but it is our duty to share these horrible images with others, so all humanity can demand justice, then  people like the Kamal Naths, Sajjan Kumars and Tytlers  would not be welcome in these countries by their governments and perhaps put to jail.

This should be our sole objective in order to seek justice  by showing the world what the hoodlums did to us.

Just a thought!

Tejwant Singh


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Apr 19, 2010)

Tejwant Singh said:


> I have a suggestion for the next year's Vaisakhi Nagar Keertans that take place outside India in the world over.
> 
> We should have floats depicting the pictures of the victims of 1984 holocaust, burned alive with kerosene filled tyres around their necks. The hooligans attacking mercilessly and killing the innocent because they were Sikhs. These are the true martyrs.The pictures of damaged done to Akaal Takaht should also be posted on the  floats too along with a website address which explains everything in details.
> 
> ...




And an excellent thought it is, Tejwant ji.  I see only one problem.

Many times, parents have gotten quite annoyed, even angry with me when I tell their kids about what happened to us in 1984.  They want to protect their children from their heritage, their own history!  The kids - some in their 20s - are fascinated and interested.  They want to know.  If the parents of my generation can be gotten past, your idea would be wonderful.

And in the meantime, let's have no more violent clashes in public with each other.


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 19, 2010)

Its time the Moderates woke up and make their voice heard....Majority are Moderate. The Fringe Minority must not be allowed to get away with this.
Our History..our heritage is OURS..we cannot forget ever..we just have to go about it he right way !! And no one can tell us how to remember our hostory or preserve our heritage..only WE can do that.:happysingh:


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## punjab4life (Apr 26, 2010)

as a proud punjabi i do not support the khalistan movement. as a concerned indian, i sincerely believe our country needs a revolution. Enough of the corruption in Punjab. Enough corruption in India. We need to ban all radical outfits, regardless of whether they are Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Sikh extremists. They are harming our nation. 

More importantly, the victims of heinous govt-backed crimes need to be given justice, whether they are the Sikhs of Delhi-Punjab, the Muslims of Gujarat, the Christians of Orissa, or the Hindus of Kashmir. 

I am only against Khalistan because I believe we can live as one community. Pakistan gained independence from India. Are they better off?  Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs - all are worse off. If Khalistan forms, same will happen. Sikhs are quite prosperous in India, and are the second most prosperous community in India, after the Parsis. We also have a highly respected Sikh Prime Minister, who is now in his second term as Prime Minister. 

Only thing, unfortunately, they do not have, is the right to follow the Anand Karaj Act, which they rightfully deserve in my opinion. 

Hindus and Sikhs generally had (and have) good relations. There is Hindu-Sikh intermarriage. We get along very well, share same culture. We celebrate diwali together. Many Hindus also pray and give their dues at the Golden Temple. Sikhs also visit Mandirs to give their respect. 

Someone here mentioned that in the next Vaisakhi parade Sikhs should show pictures of those innocents who were murdered in 1984, and to show the damaged  Harmandir Sahib and demand justice. I agree, but please do not take the path of violence. Sikhs are losing respect in Canada. 

Like I said earlier, India is a country full of corruption. And politicians are willing to do anything for votes, money, power. What happened in 1984 was a great political game and a fight for power and control of Punjab between the congress and akali dal. I urge Sikhs and other Indians to fight within the constitution against corruption and try to change the system. Eradicate corruption. Make India a true democracy as opposed to the pseudo-democracy that it is today. 

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Apr 26, 2010)

punjab4life said:


> as a proud punjabi i do not support the khalistan movement. as a concerned indian, i sincerely believe our country needs a revolution. Enough of the corruption in Punjab. Enough corruption in India. We need to ban all radical outfits, regardless of whether they are Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Sikh extremists. They are harming our nation.
> 
> More importantly, the victims of heinous govt-backed crimes need to be given justice, whether they are the Sikhs of Delhi-Punjab, the Muslims of Gujarat, the Christians of Orissa, or the Hindus of Kashmir.
> 
> ...



Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh!

Welcome to SPN, Punjab4life ji.   

I am well-known as a Khalistani.  I am not, however, a violent, foaming-at-the-mouth, AK47-toting Khalistani.  Unlike you, I believe that India is not a viable, cohesive state and it will eventually fall apart, peacefully, I hope, violently, I fear.  If this happens, we will, of course, rescue our Hindu cousins as we have so many times in the past.  Time will tell what is the Hukam of Vaheguru in this matter.

Other than that, we have much in common.  

I agree that corruption is a major problem in India, possibly THE major problem.  This corruption is not limited to government;  it seems to pervade all level of life in India. If the corruption were rooted out, I wonder what would be left?

If India wants to make peace with its Sikh citizens, the first step is not a Sikh prime minister, it is to recognise officially and legally that we exist!  That, I think, is the logical starting place.  Although they are basically pacifistic religions of quiet people, the Jains and Buddhists of India that I have known, few though they are, agree.  Until that step is taken, I am inclined to look at any offers by the GOI as appeasement, not a genuine step of reconciliation.

I am a survivor of the 1984 violence.  Many of my family members were not.  Having seen and felt the level of hatred there at that time, I doubt that has simply disappeared in the last quarter century.  As for justice, at this late date, I am not sure what justice would look like.

Whatever else happens, we Canadian Sikhs need to learn to live together in peace.  The damage done attacking each other with what are supposed to be kirpans is inestimable and heart-breaking.  This is not what our shaheeds died for.  Khalistanis and nonKhalistanis need to sit together in peace.  Khalistan is a necessary yet divisive issue; we simply must learn how to get along in spite of our different opinions.  Civil discussion in such forums as SPN is certainly a start.  If we should ever meet in person, I assure you that my kirpan will remain happily sheathed at my left hip unless I am attacked.  If you can assure me of the same for you, we can speak as brother and sister (which we are).   If we two are able to act so, why not every other two disagreeing Sikhs in Canada - or for that matter, in the world?

Punjabis have a reputation for boundless energy.  Let us turn that energy to solving our problems instead of exploding into temper tantrums directed against each other.


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## punjab4life (Apr 26, 2010)

Sat Sri Akal Harinder Kaur Ji

I respect your opinion, and have sincere sympathy for what happened to your family. What happened in 1984 was truly disgusting and undemocratic. However, I disagree with you that India is unviable. India is united in its diversity and I think that is it's biggest strength. If it were really unviable, it wouldn't have lasted 63 years. That being said, the possibility of it eventually falling apart..that is a possibility. Because India has many enemies, both within and outside its boundaries. Many of these enemies are a result of it's own discriminatory policies. But a divided India would be a weaker India. Divide and rule was the policy the British used to take over India. United we stand, divided we fall. 

That being said, the Indian government needs to make drastic changes. It's appalling that a democratic, "secular" state can periodically witness such tragic riots and completely forget about them. 26 years and no justice is unacceptable! This leads to alienation. I also believe that the anger in Sikhs has not subdued. You see it everywhere. I have plenty of Sikh friends and even family members. But this anger doesn't necessarily translate into becoming a Khalistani. The support for Khalistan is much greater outside Punjab than it is within Punjab. 

Also, I agree that the Indian constitution needs to be changed to give Sikhs their own identity. They are NOT Hindus! I am with you in the fight for Sikh identity in India.


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## Mai Harinder Kaur (Apr 26, 2010)

Punjab4life ji,

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh

As I said, only time will tell whether India will stay as a single state or will crumble.  We just have to wait and see.  In the meantime, those of us with different ideas and opinions need to learn to get along.  This we can and must do now.  The future will take care of itself.


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