# Decline Of Sikhism



## Admin (Jan 7, 2010)

*Quoted from a passage by S. Rattan Singh Jaggi
* 
_...these days people do not follow the ideology of Guru Nanak and his message in our practical life, which is the cause of decline of the
religion..._

Finally there is a realization that Sikhism is on a decline.The Reasons?

To begin with, today  there is the very question of Sikh identity, and to define who is a Sikh. This time there is no government interference in religious affair of the Sikhs,no outside movement or influence but the decline has stemmed from within the Sikhism.

Many young Sikhs, find the turban a bother. It gets in the way when they take to sports & swimming. Washing & drying the long hair is time-consuming, as is the morning ritual of winding seven yards of cloth around the head. It is hot and uncomfortable.

In the end,there is also  a question of fashion. They feel smarter without it.

Sikh spiritual leaders express dismay at the rapidity with which a new
generation of young men are trimming their hair and abandoning the
turban, the most conspicuous emblem of the Sikh faith.Indeed, as the defining symbol of the Sikh tradition declines, its hard not to think of the core of the religion as declining as well.

They have adopted,the globalization probably has had a greater impact, European habits: fast food, pubs and clubs. They want to show they are modern. They are willingly & votuntarily forgetting their own culture.  Another 20 years will pass and the world wont have any more
Sikhs in turbans.

There is this terrible, misplaced urge to merge with the rest of the
world, said Patwant Singh, a historian and the author of The Sikhs
(John Murray, 1999).

The Sikhs are practicing rites and ritual inconsistent with Sikhism, Including
the practice of  caste system into Gurdwaras, secretively smoking drugs  &
publicly Drinking, Idol worshiping and other rituals not followed by the Sikh Gurus .

Much of the blame is to be shared by half-educated,Ignorant priestly class also called ironically 'Gianijis' who are spreading superstitions & falsehoods to earn tax-free income.

The following News item speaks more:
"Groups of Sikh priests have protested an order that could disbar men
under the age of 30 and over 60 years to be employed in gurdwaras
across Punjab, Haryana and Himachal Pradesh.SGPC president
Avtar Singh Makkar had recently endorsed the new recruitment rules for
granthis and paathis (hymn singers) following complaints against
younger priests. These ranged from moral turpitude to several instances of
devotee collections in gurdwaras. Insisting there could be no compromise on maintaining the sanctity of the shrines, Mr Makkar called for a list of all
Gurdwara employees below 30 years and ordered a thorough verification of each mans antecedents.The committee has also sought a fresh appraisal of each priests character, conduct, his knowledge of the holy scripture and
efficiency in performing various religious rites."
Courtesy : CathNewsIndia


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## kds1980 (Jan 7, 2010)

> They have adopted,the globalization probably has had a greater impact, European habits: fast food, pubs and clubs. They want to show they are modern. They are willingly & votuntarily forgetting their own culture. Another 20 years will pass and the world wont have any more



Don't worry even after 20 years I am sure we have Anti DG,pro DG ,anti meat pro meat and other issue's fighting with each other believing that they are saving sikhism from RSS,GOI,kala afghana,atheists islam etc


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## spnadmin (Jan 7, 2010)

That is pretty funny Kanwardeep Singh ji -- I think your prediction will hold up!

On another note, why, when I read this article, do I have the sensation that I am in  the dead center of a sandstorm or tornado of some kind? If this is a list of issues and concerns, they we should add to it, because there are other problems that the author has not even mentioned that are far more serious than some things listed. And I don't understand what he means by "globalization." Globalization is unavoidable no matter what your religion, race, creed, language, country of origin, parent's country of origin,  native language, employment, and so forth. Sikhi should be able to survive the onslaught of history. If the gurus and shaheeds survived ghastly torture and decimation, if Sikhi survived the raj, then it should be a snap to survive globalization. We are doing it now.


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## roab1 (Jan 7, 2010)

A Sikh should always smile and stay in chardi kala and accept will of God. Guru Gobind Singh walked out of chamkaur di Grahi with only three Sikhs left. And he did not contemplate the decline but sang 'haal mureedan...'. Sikh = Chardi Kala. Always.


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## vsgrewal48895 (Jan 7, 2010)

Dear All,

IMHO there is no decline in Sikhism as defined in the philosophy of Guru Nanak. Of course there is a decline of Sikhs wearing 5 K's. IMHO with the advent of Sikh Forums on internet Its presence is much more known in the west and more individuals are studying it as a universal, simple faith in one Universal Creator. Humans are divine having a human experience. The cause of the trouble is I-Me-Mine complex (Eg0/Haumai). IMHO it is a Universal religion. I can vouch for that It will be there for eternity.

Full Article;www.*sikh*philosophy.net/*sikh*-*sikh*i-*sikhism*/24594-*sikhism*-a-*universal*-*religion*.html - 

Virinder


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## Amarpal (Jan 7, 2010)

Dear Khasa Ji,

Sikhi is the Philosophy and Khalsa is a Panth. Earlier also it was as it is. During Ranjit Singh many none sikhs also had Kesh; may be that was political need of the time. It does not mean that the followers of Sikhi were more. Sikhi is the Philosophy which directs our living . 

Earlier also there were few Sikhs, in sukhmani Sahib Guru Sahib has said there is one in millions that is not afflicted by the desire for gratification of senses. In present time also the situation is the same. Even I have found many people of other religion who came be classified as good followers of what Guru Sahib has said.

Panth is Akaar, it has visibilit; Sikhi is Nirakaar, it has to be experienced.

I do not think there is any decline it Sikhism, the decline may be in its instutions and leadership, which can always be improved. Sikhi is as it was.

With Love and Respect for all.

Amarpal Singh


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## max314 (Jan 7, 2010)

Quality over quantity, I say :}{}{}:


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## kds1980 (Jan 7, 2010)

max314 said:


> Quality over quantity, I say :}{}{}:



Let me also quote a famous sikh quote

Raj Bina naa dharam chale Dharam bina sab dale male hain

And you cannot have Raj with quality only


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## max314 (Jan 7, 2010)

Guru Gobind Singh also said he was here to watch the "jagat tamasha".

Humanity's insanity is part of its programming.

The Guru Gobind Singh quote you provided was absolutely bang on.  But it's not necessarily saying that this ideal is ever going to be achieved.

Also, the religion is going to end up being propagated by people who are fuelled by their egos and who lack a genuine understanding of it - the people who believe themselves to be 'in charge' of Sikkhi.  If that is the case, then who is to say which is the lesser of two evils?  Indeed, who is to say that evil isn't part of the natural order of things.

We humans scurry in a desperate attempt to produce Heaven on Earth and to tell other people what to do.  But we rarely stop to ask why.

The answers are always hidden between the lines.


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## kds1980 (Jan 7, 2010)

> The Guru Gobind Singh quote you provided was absolutely bang on. But it's not necessarily saying that this ideal is ever going to be achieved.



The quote is supposed to be said By Guru Gobind singh but there is no evidence of it.
But on the other hand we have seen the religions that captured power Flourished the most
Many peaceful ,spiritual paths were started but with time they got assimilated,or died by other religions.The sikhism we have today is because of immense sacrifice and the ultimate victory of khalsa in 18th and start of 19th century O/W  we all have been sitting on islamphilosophy.net discussing islam


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## kds1980 (Jan 7, 2010)

Narayanjot Kaur said:


> That is pretty funny Kanwardeep Singh ji -- I think your prediction will hold up!
> 
> On another note, why, when I read this article, do I have the sensation that I am in  the dead center of a sandstorm or tornado of some kind? If this is a list of issues and concerns, they we should add to it, because there are other problems that the author has not even mentioned that are far more serious than some things listed. And I don't understand what he means by "globalization." Globalization is unavoidable no matter what your religion, race, creed, language, country of origin, parent's country of origin,  native language, employment, and so forth. Sikhi should be able to survive the onslaught of history. If the gurus and shaheeds survived ghastly torture and decimation, if Sikhi survived the raj, then it should be a snap to survive globalization. We are doing it now.



Globalisation basicaly means westernisation.Many people these days beleive that in order to to be forward thinking person they need to copy the west.
Just look at entire world .Isn't it strange that now people of many countries wear pant coat the dress of west abandoning their own clothes because they believe that by wearing them they will become modern.

as Far as sikhism is concerned the biggest problem of sikhism is its unique outward appearance .many times The one who give up their appearance also start doing
non sikh practices  like going to mandir and some even start calling themself as hindu's


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## spnadmin (Jan 7, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh ji

I understand what you are saying. But globalization is not going to go away as I said earlier. The only way to stop globalization/westernization within a culture is to resort to the tactics of Wahabi muslims or Taliban. Use forceful measures. Which do not work anyway unless you are prepared to terrorize or execute people who get in your way. There is a lot of hypocrisy too with people who try to create a cocoon around their traditional cultures by enforcing traditional ways. They drive Toyota trucks into the desert, pack lap top computers, use cell phones, hack into the Internet and try to unwind the banks and national security of developed countries, wire money to purchase the most advanced weaponry through elaborate 3rd and 4th party networks, spend time and money figuring out how to hijack airplanes and bring down the Twin Towers (also let us not forget Tanzania and Mumbai). They use all that western culture has made available. Then they stone women on the mere rumor of misconduct, promote honor killing, blind you, cut off your hands, etc. etc. in the name of preserving traditional culture. I see a bit of irony in that.

There are creative and constructive ways to encourage the continuation of Sikh traditions, and some have put them into action. The way to get out of a dilemma is to walk through it, to think and to educate. Bemoaning the loss of tradition has never worked. Suppressing modernity doesn't work and creates monsters.


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## kds1980 (Jan 8, 2010)

Narayanjot ji

Muslims also live in India and they don't do things what talibans do but still they are not as much influenced by western propaganda neither by Hindu's.As a community they are getting stronger and stronger so the ways of Talibans are not the only way.Though I belive that minority religions do need to maintain some kind of orthodox attituide rather than adopting liberal culture of west O/W their death is inevitable

Second thing  I want to say is after 9/11 the turbanphobia by the west is also responsible
Punjabi sikhs in India are known to be the biggest migrators to west but now with turban 
they find it more and more difficult.  Its easy for a western born educated sikh to sue his employer if  he is discriminating him but for Punjab's sikh who parents are in debt ,who have to maintain his family may not have much choice but just to give up turban


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## harbansj24 (Jan 8, 2010)

Sikhs can be part of globalization, modernisation, and yet can keep their identity provided they learn to take responsibility for their actions and do not whine and blame all and sundry for their own problems. 
This also, I humbly believe is the essence of SIkhism.
Why talk about Sikhs abroad being under pressure to give up their turban. But what sort of pressure are Sikhs in Punjab? Why are they so rapidly and willingly giving up their identity here?
Is it because the so called "modernity" teaches us that nothing is sacrosanct and everything can be questioned? This then rapidly becomes a license to do as one pleases and no rules are applicable at all? One has only rights but no duties? One has a right to be a Sikh but no obligation look like a Sikh?


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## vsgrewal48895 (Jan 8, 2010)

Dear Harbans Ji,

Your point of "responsibility for their actions" is the essence of Sikhi, which no body want to talk about. Most of us try to spin it one way or the other and shirk to talk about their actions.
ਕਥਨੀ ਬਦਨੀ ਕਹਨੁ ਕਹਾਵਨੁ ॥ਸਮਝਿ ਪਰੀ ਤਉ ਬਿਸਰਿਓ ਗਾਵਨੁ ॥ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਪੰਚ ਜੋ ਚੂਰੇ ॥ਤਿਨ ਤੇ ਨਾਹਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਦੂਰੇ ॥
_Kathnī ba__ḏnī kahan kahāvan. Samaj__ẖ parī __ṯa¬o bisri¬o gāvan. Kaha__ṯ Kabīr panc__ẖ jo c__ẖūrė. Ŧin __ṯė nāhi param pa__ḏ __ḏūrė._

All preaching, ranting and raving, and arguing, are forgotten when one comes to understand. Says Kabir, those who conquer the five demons of the body passions (ਇੰਦੀ੍), for them the state of supreme dignity is never far.                                 -----Kabir, Raag Rasa, AGGS, Page, 478-12

Cordially,

Virinder


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## Lee (Jan 8, 2010)

Is Sikhi in decline?

I really dont think it is you know.  I converted abotu 8 or 9 years ago now, and when I did I remember going to the massive Gurdwara in Southall for an all night kirtan thing. I saw thousands of Sikhs there  two other white people I spyed.

Now 8-9 years later I have seen many white Sikhs, I saw a young man on the train the other week, short hair, bearded, reading a book about Sikhi. He had that look on his face, the 'thinking deeply' look, yeah you know the one mean.

Is modern life eroding the Sikh apperance?

Yes I don't think any of us can deny this one.

Now is this a bad thing?

I'm going to say yes and no.  The thing is that Guru ji has indeed given his Khalsa instructions on how to look, and of course Khalsa simply cannot gainsay this at all.  However how many of us have taken Amrit?


I have not, I hope to one day(god willing), but the point is I belive that there is actualy a very very tiny minority of people that reach God, from all religions, and from Sikhi.  I also think that each of us needs to be a little selfish.

I mean of course that we should concentrate on our own path to God, and allow others the same curtersy.

So to me, wheter Sikhi as a group thrives or diminishes is of little concern, my focous is my own striving for God.  It is not up to me whether or not I will make it, and so if you wear your turban or not, or cut your hair or not, or are hypocritical or not, is also of little concern to me.

In the end are you a worthwhile person, with turban or not, with Kesh or not.


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## spnadmin (Jan 8, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> Narayanjot ji
> 
> Muslims also live in India and they don't do things what talibans do but still they are not as much influenced by western propaganda neither by Hindu's.As a community they are getting stronger and stronger so the ways of Talibans are not the only way.Though I belive that minority religions do need to maintain some kind of orthodox attituide rather than adopting liberal culture of west O/W their death is inevitable
> 
> ...




I don't disagree. But I do have a problem with understanding this problem in a simplistic way -- as is the norm -- and then moaning and groaning about the loss of culture.

BTW - Turbaned Sikhs are thriving here in the face of discrimination because of a never say die attitude. That is what is missing in the dialog. What is that special constellation of qualities that make Sikhs and Sikhism something brilliant and adaptable, in the face of every adversity. Figure that out. Distill it. And then determine what it takes to teach those qualities to each generation. 

It is just my failing -- but whining and moaning has always been a turn off for me.


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## kds1980 (Jan 9, 2010)

> BTW - Turbaned Sikhs are thriving here in the face of discrimination because of a never say die attitude. That is what is missing in the dialog. What is that special constellation of qualities that make Sikhs and Sikhism something brilliant and adaptable



In the end Turbaned sikhs are human too .Poor people always become worst victim of racism.That's why we see victims as delivery boys,truck drivers etc.For how long you keep living in fear of being attacked? People shouting abusing? so only mentally very strong persons at ground level end up wearing turban which are going to be very few.


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## spnadmin (Jan 9, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> In the end Turbaned sikhs are human too .Poor people always become worst victim of racism.That's why we see victims as delivery boys,truck drivers etc.For how long you keep living in fear of being attacked? People shouting abusing? so only mentally very strong persons at ground level end up wearing turban which are going to be very few.



Thanks for pointing this out. Those who are struggling to make a living have a lot of pressure on them. Delivery boys, taxi drivers, truck drivers are out in the public all the time and face discrimination more than most.


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## Bmandur (Jan 9, 2010)

_:happykaur:Gurfateh Aman Singh Ji YES Most of the People do not Follow the ideology of Guru Nanak Dev ji_
_...these days people do not follow the ideology of Guru Nanak and his message in our practical life, which is the cause of decline of the_
_religion..._

Finally there is a realization that Sikhism is on a decline.The Reasons?

To begin with, today there is the very question of Sikh identity, and to define who is a Sikh. This time there is no government interference in religious affair of the Sikhs,no outside movement or influence but the decline has stemmed from within the Sikhism.

Many young Sikhs, find the turban a bother. It gets in the way when they take to sports & swimming. Washing & drying the long hair is time-consuming, as is the morning ritual of winding seven yards of cloth around the head. It is hot and uncomfortable.

In the end,there is also a question of fashion. They feel smarter without it.

Sikh spiritual leaders express dismay at the rapidity with which a new
generation of young men are trimming their hair and abandoning the
turban, the most conspicuous emblem of the Sikh faith.Indeed, as the defining symbol of the Sikh tradition declines, its hard not to think of the core of the religion as declining as well.

They have adopted,the globalization probably has had a greater impact, European habits: fast food, pubs and clubs. They want to show they are modern. They are willingly & votuntarily forgetting their own culture. Another 20 years will pass and the world wont have any more
Sikhs in turbans.

There is this terrible, misplaced urge to merge with the rest of the
world, said Patwant Singh, a historian and the author of The Sikhs
(John Murray, 1999).

The Sikhs are practicing rites and ritual inconsistent with Sikhism, Including
the practice of caste system into Gurdwaras, secretively smoking drugs &
publicly Drinking, Idol worshiping and other rituals not followed by the Sikh Gurus .

Much of the blame is to be shared by half-educated,Ignorant priestly class also called ironically 'Gianijis' who are spreading superstitions & falsehoods to earn tax-free income.

The following News item speaks more:
"Groups of Sikh priests have protested an order that could disbar men
under the age of 30 and over 60 years to be employed in gurdwaras
across Punjab, Haryana and Himachal Pradesh.SGPC president
Avtar Singh Makkar had recently endorsed the new recruitment rules for
granthis and paathis (hymn singers) following complaints against
younger priests. These ranged from moral turpitude to several instances of
devotee collections in gurdwaras. Insisting there could be no compromise on maintaining the sanctity of the shrines, Mr Makkar called for a list of all
Gurdwara employees below 30 years and ordered a thorough verification of each mans antecedents.The committee has also sought a fresh appraisal of each priests character, conduct, his knowledge of the holy scripture and
efficiency in performing various religious rites."
Courtesy : 
Gurfateh


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## sdad (Jan 9, 2010)

*The writer of the article is more mistaken than he knows.*
*I heard similar ramblings over 35 years ago (when I moved to the UK), in fact an elderly person at the time confidently  told me Sikhism would be a thing of the past within 5-10 years.*

*Although I think it is ironic that people from other faiths are becoming Sikhs (Good ones at that), whilst Sikhs are *******ising / walking away from it.  When you think, the word Sikh implies someone willing to learn than a manmukh cannot by definition be a Sikh.  *

*IMHO a person who is a traitor to principals followed by his ancestors or those that are just sensible is of little consequences, hence, when I hear such news as so & so has cut his hair, although there is some sadness at first on the whole I am glad of it, have you heard of the saying “a chain is only as good as the weakest link” that person was never a Sikh at heart and he/she doesn’t deserve Sikhi, so good riddance. I firmly believe and my experience tells me such actions will make the Sikh core much stronger and much better.  There is no loss for Sikhi of a person that was never a member in the first place, and ask any army in any country what they think of traitors, and you will get my drift.*

*I also disagree with the author of the article on a number of accounts, when he says: *
*A)  **“*This time there is no government interference in religious affair of the Sikhs*”, come-on, which planet is he on?*
*B)  ** “*In the end,there is also a question of fashion. They feel smarter without it.*” Where did this come from? Which religion anywhere worries about fashion above principals?*
*C)   **“*They have adopted,the globalization probably has had a greater impact, European habits: fast food, pubs and clubs. They want to show they are modern. They are willingly & votuntarily forgetting their own culture. Another 20 years will pass and the world wont have any more Sikhs in turbans.* ” I will happily lay a bet on the being absolutely wrong, it is in the western societies (USA, Canada, Malaysia, UK, etc,) where I have met the most devout GurSikh’s, I guess if exposed to all the temptations one can holds to their principals than they must be strong.*
Read More:: Sikh Philosophy NetwDecline of Sikhism (Decline of *It is clear that in modern society many people trim their hair some because they look around and see that it has become the norm (sheep syndrome) and others because they don’t know any better (don’t know better syndrome ). Rarely does one look to see why something; a style of clothing, a style of keeping ones hair etc, and the underlying reasons.*

*I have yet to see a Sikh who has faith in Guru-ji walk away, so what, if the faithless move away, did Guru Gobind Singh-ji not say "he did NOT love a Sikh he loved Sikhi"?*

*The most painful thing for me reading this article was the author has the word “Singh” in his name, and he says things like “*To begin with, today there is the very question of Sikh identity, and to define who is a Sikh*”, I would say to him everybody should know what they are, including him, and certainly a Sikhi would know if he is one. I agree 100% with max314 when he says "Quality over quantity"*

*GurFateh!*
*Satvinder Singh *


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## gurpreetgoraya (Jan 10, 2010)

Sat Sri Akal to all.

I wholeheartedly agree with Amarpal Ji, about his distinction between Sikhi-Philosophy and Khalsa-Panth.

I think it is a misconception that Sikhi is one the decline. It is, in fact, on the rise! The core of Sikhi is the Mulmanter Sahib, and look around the world today, don't you see more and more people ascribing to the same concepts of God and Existence as expounded by Guru Nanak Dev ji? It is true that most people have not reached these conclusions through the MulManter Sahib, but why should that be the case?

As for Panth-Khalsa, that is a different matter.


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## kds1980 (Jan 10, 2010)

How could we say that sikhi is on rise? No Doubt people visiting Gurdwara's ,reciting some Gurbani are increasing but they are not at all sikh.We should also remember Gurugranth sahib 's bani is widely used by Baba's Guru's of India.so people may visit gurswara recite some bani but side by side they worship idols,visit their living Guru's so sikhi even with mone are on decline


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## ballym (Jan 10, 2010)

Kanwardeep Singh said:


> Narayanjot ji
> 
> Second thing I want to say is after 9/11 the turbanphobia by the west is also responsible
> Punjabi sikhs in India are known to be the biggest migrators to west but now with turban
> they find it more and more difficult. Its easy for a western born educated sikh to sue his employer if he is discriminating him but for Punjab's sikh who parents are in debt ,who have to maintain his family may not have much choice but just to give up turban


It is not true, I guess. may be just an excuse. Sorry for being blunt.
I was born in Uttar Pradesh and had no link with Punjaab. There was not even an idea of touching hairs ever came to anybody's mind. Later I went to chandigarh as I got job there. Hey!, entire punjab had so many people with trimmed beard, no hairs etc. 
Another thing I fail to understand... if Hairs are so so important then why does not our peple object to trimming as much as they object to cutting long hairs? one murder and thousand murders... punishment is same. Am I right? Why do we have beauty parlours? Why double standards. Is it in our blood to keep fighting with fellow people? Oh, u r not doing this right... I will kill you? 
Once again, sorry for writing in such fasion but it seems that we need a right people at the top for right direction.
And let us move forward. Sikhi would not die if we cut hairs. It would die if we keep excluding everyone with a slight different style.
sacha sauda, radha soami , mahants... why do they prosper? 
Everybody says we do not need them but these groups have good following despite giving nothing much in return except cheap food and clean looking open spaces as dera beas.. a different feel. Why can not we provide it our selves. Christians have so many sections, muslims also have it . Why not us. Why do we want to kill Nirankari's. 
Why can not we tolerate these slight variations and bringing them under one body. You object and they separate.
What is better.
A 80% ( Visibly 80%) may be better than fully conforming( as per definition of visibilty test of being a sikh) but a real traitor.
What guarantee onehas that a person having all 5 k's and doing Path can not do harm to our religion.
In fact they are doing it. that is why we are discussing this point here.

I think I have crossed some limits!


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## kds1980 (Jan 10, 2010)

> sacha sauda, radha soami , mahants... why do they prosper?
> Everybody says we do not need them but these groups have good following despite giving nothing much in return except cheap food and clean looking open spaces as dera beas.. a different feel. Why can not we provide it our selves. Christians have so many sections, muslims also have it . Why not us. Why do we want to kill Nirankari's.
> Why can not we tolerate these slight variations and bringing them under one body. You object and they separate.
> What is better.



Even sikhism has so many sects.In christianity all have to belive christ as son of God while in islam everybody has to believe mohammed as last prophet similarly in sikhism all those who belive Gurgranth sahib their Guru and  beleive in teachings of 10 Guru's are considered as sikhs.Nirankari's mocked sikh Guru's That's why sikhs became upset with them.If you don't remember then Nirankari's were part of sikh faith unless they themself decided to part away


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## ballym (Jan 10, 2010)

sdad said:


> * I agree 100% with max314 when he says "Quality over quantity"*


 We need quantity also..other wise there are so many sects in this world who are unknown to most. I am not implying that we will be reduced to that level but it is our duty to expand. Look to ther religions and follow. Islam also asks to keep hairs but how many keep them but they are devout muslim in their heart. Muslim religion does not disown them.


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## vsgrewal48895 (Jan 10, 2010)

*INTOLERANCE**/**ਅਸਹਿਨਸ਼ੀਲਤਾ*​


*ABSTRACT*​


Intolerance is the lack of ability or willingness to accept something and is one of the character defects. It reflects an unwillingness to recognize and respect differences in opinions or beliefs. It might be due to a complex mental state involving beliefs. One’s feelings and values dispose him to act in certain ways. No individual or group is actually superior to the rest of the humanity. Intolerance is a refusal to accept people who have views, beliefs or life styles, which are different from one’s own. It is often due to ego as expressed by Guru Nanak in Raag Asa:

ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਪੂਰਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੋਵੈ ਘਟਿ ਨ ਕੋਈ ਆਖੈ ॥ਪਤਿ ਪਰਵਾਣਾ ਪਿਛੈ ਪਾਈਐ ਤਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੋਲਿਆ ਜਾਪੈ ॥
_Sabh Ko Poora Aapay Hovai Ghat Na Ko-ee Aakhai, pat parvaanaa pichhai paa-ee-ai taa naanak toli-aa jaapai. _

Every one deems himself perfect, and none calls himself imperfect. If the weight of honor is placed on the scale, then, O Nanak, one sees his true weight.-----Guru Nanak, Asa Di Var, AGGS, Page, 469-4

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Are We Intolerant?

Intolerance has been commonly associated with religion. Closely tied to the notion of “judgment” is “tolerance.” Although many accuse absolutists of intolerance, these accusers most likely have an unclear and distorted notion of what tolerance really is. They often are unaware that the concept of tolerance implies a close relationship to truth. Contrary to popular definitions, true tolerance means “putting up with error, and accepting all views.” By definition, what we tolerate is what we disapprove of or what we believe to be false and erroneous. Furthermore, tolerance presupposes an adequate grasp of what another person believes—as well as knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of such belief. Actually, if disagreement didn’t exist, then tolerance would be unnecessary. It is because real differences exist between people that tolerance becomes necessary and virtuous.

Intolerance may be caused by an unacceptable environment or a drug. Absence of the virtue of tolerance is a character defect and a global malady. I supplicated to God to bless me with tolerance. God said No; it is not granted but learnt.


ਖਿਮਾ ਗਹੀ ਸਚੁ ਸੰਚਿਓ ਖਾਇਓ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਨਾਮ ॥ ਖਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਭਈ ਅਨਦ ਸੂਖ ਬਿਸ੍ਰਾਮ ॥

_Khimaa Gahee Sach Sanchio Khaa-eo Amnrit Naam, Kharee Kirpaa Thaakur Bha-ee Anad Sookh Bisraam._

Adopt an attitude of tolerance, gather truth, and partake of the Ambrosial Nectar of the Name. When my Akal Purkh and Master showed Its Great Mercy, I found peace, happiness and bliss.-----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 261-8


For Full Article; please find in the archives of the forum or copy & paste the heading in Google search.


Respectfully Submitted,

Virinder


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## Odion (Jan 10, 2010)

I'm not sure if Sikhism is declining, I've met many pious Sikhs that did not keep the five k's, yet they still did Amrit Vela and gave charity.

I think we need to be careful so as not to turn Sikhism into an exclusivist club. The Khalsa is great, but it is not something everyone can keep, perhaps they are spiritually or emotionally unable to grow their hair, perhaps they unconsciously pluck hairs (I know someone, a non-Sikh, who unconsciously pulls hairs out) and I don't think that those who are unable to make that commitment should be called non-Sikhs.

When I was first searching through faiths, I was originally put off Sikhism because of its emphasis on being unable to cut hair - I am a person who has long hair myself, but I'm not a fan of facial hair (makes me come out in spots and a rash) and one of my biggest concerns is not being accepted by the sangat due to being a convert and yet being unable to keep kesh.

In my view Sikhism is more than hair and one who does not keep the five k's is still a Sikh; it is not a case of only Amritdhari and Keshdhari as being "real Sikhs" like I have heard a few people (not on here) say. I know from discussing religion with people (I love discussing religion ) that Sikhism is a religion that many are VERY impressed with when they learn about its beliefs. There are many potential Western converts to Sikhism because they love the theology - myself included.

Not to sound like I'm proselytising Christianity or anything, but I think we can take Jesus' words of "_Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand._" should be listened to. Sikhi should not be divided against Sikhi, this is a faith about the unity of humankind, being a better person and a God without fear or hatred (a very summarised view ).

This is just my $0.02, and I hope I haven't caused anyone any offence. If I have, I apologize as this was not my intention.


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## spnadmin (Jan 10, 2010)

Odion said:


> When I was first searching through faiths, I was originally put off Sikhism because of its emphasis on being unable to cut hair - I am a person who has long hair myself, but I'm not a fan of facial hair (makes me come out in spots and a rash) and one of my biggest concerns is not being accepted by the sangat due to being a convert and yet being unable to keep kesh.



odion ji

Not all sangats will put off a convert or one who does not keep hair. So please if you can find a sangat that emphasizes Gurmat study, kirtan, seva, and Sri Guru Granth Sahib, and the spirituality of our religion.


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## Odion (Jan 10, 2010)

God willing, I will do that. 

I'm visiting as many Gurdwaras in my local area as possible, but there is one in particular that I am very fond of.


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## vsgrewal48895 (Jan 10, 2010)

Odion Ji Says “In my view Sikhism is more than hair and one who does not keep the five k's is still a Sikh; it is not a case of only Amritdhari and Keshdhari as being "real Sikhs" like I have heard a few people (not on here) say.”

Dear Odion Ji,

I concur with your above statement and here are my two cents on the subject;


*Sikh/ **ਸਿੱਖ*​​Sikh word has been used in Sabd Guru as student/pupil/teaching/or a tuft of hair or head -ਚੇਲਾ, ਵਿਦਆਰਥੀ, ਸ਼ਿਸ਼। ਸ਼ਿਸ਼/ਸਿੱਖ ਦੀ/ਦਾ/ਨੂੰ। ਸਿੱਖਿਆ। ਸਿੱਖ/ਸਮਝ! ਬੋਦੀ, ਚੋਟੀ, ਸਿਰ।

A Sikh is the student of truth who understands and live the teachings contained in Sabd Guru (AGGS) in word and spirit at each step of daily life. One must take these teachings until these take you. The mechanical recitation of Nitname and other rituals performed daily etc with out understanding are all superstitions with out any spiritual benefit or ਖੇਪ. It is the development of virtues which makes it a devotional worship says Guru Nanak in his Japji;

ਵਿਣੁ ਗੁਣ ਕੀਤੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
_vi__ṇ gu__ṇ kī__ṯė b__ẖaga__ṯ na ho¬ė._

Without virtue, there is no devotional worship.-----Guru Nanak, Japji, AGGS, Page, 4-16

Guru Nanak further advises on good and bad acts as the basis for Divine justice in Raag Ramkali;

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਸਿਖ ਸਹੀ ॥ਲੇਖਾ ਰਬੁ ਮੰਗੇਸੀਆ ਬੈਠਾ ਕਢਿ ਵਹੀ ॥
_Nānak āk__ẖai rė manā su__ṇī¬ai sik__ẖ sahī. Lėk__ẖā rab mangėsī¬ā bai__ṯẖā kad__ẖ vahī._

O mind, listen to the True Teachings, Says Nanak, that God will call you to account by opening the ledger. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 953-13

ਮੂੰਡੁ ਮੁਡਾਇ ਜਟਾ ਸਿਖ ਬਾਧੀ ਮੋਨਿ ਰਹੈ ਅਭਿਮਾਨਾ ॥ਮਨੂਆ ਡੋਲੈ ਦਹ ਦਿਸ ਧਾਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਰਤ ਆਤਮ ਗਿਆਨਾ ॥

_Mūnd mudā¬ė jatā sik__ẖ bā__ḏẖī mon rahai ab__ẖimānā. Manū¬ā dolai __ḏah __ḏis __ḏẖāvai bin ra__ṯ ā__ṯam gi¬ānā._

Some shave their heads, some keep their hair in matted tangles; others observing silence are yet full of pride. Without loving devotion and enlightenment of the self their minds waver and wander in ten directions. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 1013-5

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਸੇਤੀ ਸਨਮੁਖੁ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ ਹੋਵੈ ਤ ਸਨਮੁਖੁ ਸਿਖੁ ਕੋਈ ਜੀਅਹੁ ਰਹੈ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਲੇ ॥ ਆਪੁ ਛਡਿ ਸਦਾ ਰਹੈ ਪਰਣੈ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ਕੋਏ ॥ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਸੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਸਨਮੁਖੁ ਹੋਏ ॥

_Kahai Nānak su__ṇhu san__ṯahu so sik__ẖ sanmuk__ẖ ho¬ė.Jė ko sik__ẖ gurū sė__ṯī sanmuk__ẖ hovai. Hovai __ṯa sanmuk__ẖ sik__ẖ ko¬ī jī¬ahu rahai gur nālė. Āp c__ẖẖad sa__ḏā rahai par__ṇai gur bin avar na jā__ṇai ko¬ė._

If a Sikh turns to the Guru with sincere faith, as sunmukh - his soul abides with the Guru. Renouncing selfishness and conceit, he remains always on the side of the Guru; he does not know anyone except the Guru. Says Nanak, listen, O Saints: such a Sikh turns toward the Guru with sincere faith, and becomes sunmukh. -----Guru Amardas, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 919-18 & 19, & 920-21

ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਭਲਕੇ ਪਰਭਾਤੀ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੈ ॥ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਦੋਖ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵੈ ॥ਫਿਰਿ ਚੜੈ ਦਿਵਸੁ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਵੈ ਬਹਦਿਆ ਉਠਦਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ਜੋ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਧਿਆਏ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ ॥ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਗੁਰੂ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ ॥ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਧੂੜਿ ਮੰਗੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਕੀ ਜੋ ਆਪਿ ਜਪੈ ਅਵਰਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ॥

_Gur sa__ṯ__gur kā jo sik__ẖ__ ak__ẖ__ā&shy;ė so b__ẖ__alkė u__ṯẖ__ har nām __ḏẖ__i&shy;āvai._ _U__ḏ__am karė b__ẖ__alkė parb__ẖ__ā__ṯ__ī isnān karė amri__ṯ__ sar nāvai._ _Up__ḏ__ės gurū har har jap jāpai sab__ẖ__ kilvik__ẖ__ pāp __ḏ__ok__ẖ__ leh jāvai._ _Fir c__ẖ__a__ṛ__ai __ḏ__ivas gurbā__ṇ__ī gāvai bah__ḏ__i&shy;ā u__ṯẖ__&shy;__ḏ__i&shy;ā har nām __ḏẖ__i&shy;āvai._ _Jo sās girās __ḏẖ__i&shy;ā&shy;ė mėrā har har so gursik__ẖ__ gurū man b__ẖ__āvai._ _Jis no __ḏ__a&shy;i&shy;āl hovai mėrā su&shy;āmī __ṯ__is gursik__ẖ__ gurū up__ḏ__ės su__ṇ__āvai._ _Jan Nānak __ḏẖ__ū__ṛ__ mangai __ṯ__is gursik__ẖ__ kī jo āp japai avrah nām japāvai._

One who calls himself a Sikh of the True Guru, shall rise early in the morning hours and meditate on the Akal Purkh's Name. Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar. Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Eternal Akal Purkh. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased. Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Name. One who meditates on my Eternal God, with every breath and every morsel of food - that Gur Sikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind. That person, unto whom my God and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that Gur Sikh, the Guru's Teachings are bestowed. Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that Gur Sikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. -----Guru Ramdas, Gauri Ki Var, AGGS, Page, 305

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਮਹਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਰਖਾਈ ॥ਗੁਰੁ ਤੁਠਾ ਸਿਖ ਦੇਵੈ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ ॥
_Har har gur meh b__ẖaga__ṯ rak__ẖā¬ī. Gur __ṯu__ṯẖā sik__ẖ __ḏėvai mėrė b__ẖā¬ī._

The Akal Purkh has implanted Its devotional worship in the Guru. When the Guru is pleased, He bestows it upon His Sikh, O my siblings of Destiny. -----Guru Ramdas, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 367-12

*Conclusion:*

He who believes in One creator, equality for all, with understanding and deliberation of the Gur Bani contained in AGGS with reflection on its teachings in daily life is a Sikh. The practice of the Sikh faith at present is quite different than what is contained in AGGS on the subject as illustrated above. Of course Sikhs came out of Hindus and definitely did not drop from the sky as the selected ones. Sikh Gurus simplified the faith in One Creator for all and advised to get rid of empty superstitious rituals. Sikh faith is no religion IMHO, it is a set of principles if followed honestly and truthfully will make an individual a better human believing in human equality and finding God in him self says Nanak in his Japji; 

ਮਤਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਰਤਨ ਜਵਾਹਰ ਮਾਣਿਕ ਜੇ ਇਕ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਿਖ ਸੁਣੀ ॥
_Ma__ṯ vic__ẖ ra__ṯan javāhar mā__ṇik jė ik gur kī sik__ẖ su__ṇī._

Within the mind are gems, jewels and rubies, if you listen to the Guru's Teachings, even once. -----Guru Nanak, Japji, AGGS, Page, 2-12

ਜਾਗਤਿ ਜੋਤ ਜਪੈ ਨਿਸ ਬਾਸੁਰ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਮਨ ਨੈਕ ਨ ਆਨੈ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ ਸਜੈ ਬ੍ਰਤ ਗੋਰ ਮੜੀ ਮਟ ਭੂਲ ਨ ਮਾਨੈ ॥ ਤੀਰਥ ਦਾਨ ਦਇਆ ਤਪ ਸੰਜਮ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹ ਏਕ ਪਛਾਨੈ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਜੋਤ ਜਗੈ ਘਟ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਖਾਲਸ ਤਾਹਿ ਨਖਾਲਸ ਜਾਨੈ ॥ 
_Jaagat Joat Japai Nis Basar Ayk Bina Man Naik Na Aanai.Pooran Prem Partit Sajai Barat Gor Marhi Matt Bhool Na Manai.Ttheerathh Daan Dayaa Tap Sanjam Ayk Binaa Neh Ayk Pashhaanai.Pooran joth jagai ghatt mai thab khaalas thaahi nakhaalas jaanai._

He, who remembers the ever-awakened Light throughout night and day and does not bring anyone else in the mind, and practices his vow with whole hearted affection and does not believe in even by oversight, the graves, Hindu monuments and monasteries; and does not recognize anyone else except One God, not even the bestowal of charities, performance of merciful acts, austerities and restraint on pilgrim-stations; the perfect light of the God illuminates his heart, then one comes to know immaculate Pure from impure.------Guru Gobind Singh Sawaeeya # 1, DG, Page, 712

Cordially,

Virinder


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## spnadmin (Jan 10, 2010)

virinder ji

All that you have quoted below is quoted to promote the view that the kakkars are un-necessary. But in my opinion, this is undermining the importance of bani and banaa being complements to each other.

Amritdhari should not erect invisible barriers to the discovery of spirituality among sikhs who are not amridhari. By the same token, those who are not amritdhari should not create the impression that there are widespread antagonisms and the amritdhari persist with silent agendas that are crushing spiritual development on every front.

It has been my experience that the non-amritdhari contribute more than their share to what is essentially a false dichotomy, and one that only enhances needless divisions. There are already too many crises facing the panth for this one to fester on they way it does, with the help of partial shabads that create wrong impressions. 

There is no justification in my humble opinion to your program of continually posting articles with the aim of convincing us that kesh or any other of the articles of Sikh faith are meaningless. They are not superficial distractions.

Odion ji, my remarks are not directed at you. Your issues are legitimate. Please understand that it is a very small percentage of people on both sides, amridthari and non-amritdhari who keep this controversy raging. And it is not healthy.


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## Bmandur (Jan 10, 2010)

Guru Gobind Singh ji also said.
 Inhi ki Kirpaa ky sazey hum hain,
Nahi mo so garib karor pary:happykaur:


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## vsgrewal48895 (Jan 10, 2010)

Dear Narayanjot & Aman Ji,

I do not have any intention to create a division between any one who calls himself a Sikh. Each one has to work hard to grow in spirituality. It does not come automatically and should be left to the individual to get his/her mental peace of mind. It is the individual's action that defines him/her IMHO. We all have to agree to disagree on our own understandings of the issues for discussion.

I apologise if I hurt any one's feelings and pray for forgiveness.

ਕਬੀਰਾ ਜਹਾ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਤਹ ਧਰਮੁ ਹੈ ਜਹਾ ਝੂਠੁ ਤਹ ਪਾਪੁ ॥ਜਹਾ ਲੋਭੁ ਤਹ ਕਾਲੁ ਹੈ ਜਹਾ ਖਿਮਾ ਤਹ ਆਪਿ ॥ _Kabira Jahaa Gi-aan Tah Dharam Hai Jahaa Jhooth Tah Paap, Jaha Lobh Teh Kaal Hai Jaha Khima Teh Aap._

Kabir, where there is spiritual wisdom, there is righteousness. Where there is falsehood, there is sin. Where there is greed, there is death. Where there is forgiveness, there is God It self. -----Kabir Sloke # 155, AGGS, Page, 1372-15.
Respectfully Submitted.
Virinder


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