# Gurbani Being Misinterpreted By Sahil Ji



## simpy (Mar 30, 2007)

*Again this is to bring awareness*

*All our brothers ans sisters who may be trying to learn Gurbani being taught by Sahil Ji *



*Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,*

*i am starting to quote Respected Sahil Ji's quotes from whereever he is misinterpreting Gurbani, all over the forum.....*

*Respected sahil Ji was made aware of this(he is misrepresenting Gurbani) several times before, but he did not stop.*

*it may take me some days as i am busy covering other resposibilities as well, but i will make sure i cover all....*

*The purpose here is to bring awareness about this grave mistake/misunderstanding, hopefully Sahil Ji will also try to understand what Guru Ji is saying......*

*Otherwise he can have his own opinion, but please, he is requested once again to keep it to himself. Please do not misguide others on this forum. As this can lead to confusion for many. As well it shows Disrespect towards Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth sahib Ji.....*

*First- he just did it now------------*
*under thread- Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi*



			
				Sahil Makkar said:
			
		

> I will try to be as short as possible, describing one quote for each n every question..
> If u want to go into any specific thing dipper, then dig me for that, I will try to elaborate it with some more quotes from SGGS.
> 
> ਪਾਤਾਲਾ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਲਖ ਆਗਾਸਾ ਆਗਾਸ ॥
> ...


 

*Last Line(pauri 22) when he is explaining in his own words-*

*HERE DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU NANAK DEV JI IS TALKING ABOUT THE GREATNESS OF WAHEGURU/GOD/PARMATMA, NOT OF A MAN........*


*I AM SURPRSED ENOUGH THAT EVEN THE TRANSLATION TEXT THAT RESPECTED VEER SAHIL JI IS USING*-
"O Nanak, call Him Great! He Himself knows Himself. ||22||" 
*has all the "H"s capital for HIM, HIMSELF and still he is saying it is a talk about a man.....*


*Refences from others*

*Respected Bhai Sahib Singh Ji-*

hy nwnk! ijs Akwl purK ƒ (swry jgq ivc) v`fw AwiKAw jw irhw hY, auh Awp hI Awpxy Awp ƒ jwxdw hY (auh AwpxI vifAweI Awp hI jwxdw h)Y[22[


*Respected Manmohan Singh Ji*

nwnk vfw AwKIAY Awpy jwxY Awpu ]22] 
*naanak vadaa aakhee-ai aapay jaanai aap. ||22||*
hy nwnk! ausnUµ ivSwl vrnx kr[ auh Awp hI Awpxy Awp nUµ jwxdw hY[
*O Nanak! Call Him great. He Himself knows His Own-self.*

*from- Sikh Scriptures:*
O Nanak! All say that God is great, But only He knows how great! || 22 || 


*Respected Attar Singh Ji:*

Call Him Great, O, Nanak; Only He Knows Himself- the extent of His Glory. 



*forgive me please*

*again this is for awareness, choice is yours.*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Mar 31, 2007)

GuruFateh,

OK, I will not argue in this,
Better is to, Say sorry on this, If u take it like that, take it like that,
May be here meaning may be the same as surinder bhen is saying,
But really saying, Greatest man is only that who KNOWS himself

Kabir ji also says: TUM HO KAUN, KAHA SE AAYE,
KAHA HE NIJ GHAR TERA, KEHI KARAN TUM BHARMAT DOLO, TAN TAJ KAHA BASERA..
means basic question to human being is about his/her existence,
if he knows himself, then he is great.

Sorry for that..
and tell me more mistakes to me..
this is nice thread to put on all misinterpretations of me.
and also to correct me..

Thanks behan
Gurufateh


Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,*
> 
> *i am starting to quote Respected Sahil Ji's quotes from whereever he is misinterpreting Gurbani, all over the forum.....*
> 
> ...


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## simpy (Mar 31, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 said:


> GuruFateh,
> 
> OK, I will not argue in this,
> Better is to, Say sorry on this, If u take it like that, take it like that,
> ...


 

*Respected Sahil Ji,*

*endless thanks to you for the comments.*

*Can you clarify-*

*first you say-*


			
				Sahil Makkar said:
			
		

> OK, I will not argue in this,


 
*then you say-*



			
				Sahil Makkar said:
			
		

> If u take it like that, take it like that,
> May be here meaning may be the same as surinder bhen is saying,
> But really saying, Greatest man is only that who KNOWS himself


 
*What is unclear about this Shabad-IT IS CLEARLY A TALK OF THE GLORY OF THE ALMIGHTY.*

*WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL??????*

*BE CLEAR PLEASE.*

*Endless thanks to you once again.*



*forgive me please*


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## simpy (Apr 1, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 said:


> GuruFateh,
> 
> OK, I will not argue in this,
> Better is to, Say sorry on this, If u take it like that, take it like that,
> ...


 
*Respected Sahil Ji,*

*This Comment of yours shows crystal clear-*

*You have been and are being fooled/brainwashed/misguided big time by somebody*

*OR*

*You think that you can fool/brainwash others by changing/manipulating the Gurmukhi and English Dictionaries and Language rules.......*


*forgive me please*


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 1, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 are you a *Nirankari* or follower of* Narinder Grewal?* Please answer yes or no. If this is true you are under social boycott for this association. If not that, then who is your secret dedhari baba/sant/guru? People have a right to know since you are passing off false teachings and distortions with Gurbani. Thank you.


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 2, 2007)

GuruFateh

I said na,
Tell me some more interpretations,
and Sorry again

Surinder behan 
I even wrote in that mail, at the bottom that there can be some mistakes, So said Sorry,
Ya GOD is greatest, but I would again say that ya these lines were for GOD only,
but greatest human being is the person who knows himself..
If u have any objections u can block me, no problems

But tell me the things about TENTH DOOR and seeing of GOD(the quotes that i put for tenth-door/dib-srishti),
were thats things misinterprated by me,
IF no then just think about that..
IF YES, then tell me the correct interpretetions..


RAJ karega khalsa.


Harjas Kaur Khalsa said:


> sahilmakkar1983 are you a *Nirankari* or follower of* Narinder Grewal?* Please answer yes or no. If this is true you are under social boycott for this association. If not that, then who is your secret dedhari baba/sant/guru? People have a right to know since you are passing off false teachings and distortions with Gurbani. Thank you.


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## simpy (Apr 2, 2007)

*Respected Veer Sahil Ji,*

*it is simple.*

*you want to discuss whatever, go ahead.*

*PLEASE DO NOT USE GURBANI TO PROVE YOUR POINT WHEN YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT BANI SAYS. *

*SIMPLE AS THAT.*

*WHY ARE YOU DISRESPECTING GURBANI AGAIN AND AGAIN, EVEN AFTER BEING REQUESTED NOT TO DO SO.*

*AND YOU ARE ASKING ME TO DISCUSS THIS WITH YOU- SAHL JI ME PERSONALLY DOES NOT HAVE ANY INTEREST TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR GURU FROM YOUR ARGUMENTS.*

*IF HE/SHE IS A GURU-CANNOT STAY HIDDEN. HAS TO SHINE HIMSELF/HERSELF WITHOUT YOU TELLING US ABOUT HIM/HER; AND MOST IMPORTANTLY THE WAY YOU ARE TELLING ABOUT HIM/HER SHOWS THAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT SOME MAHA EGOISTIC PEOPLE GOTTEN TOGETHER, TRYING TO INSULT AND ARE INSULTING OUR DHAN DHAN GURU SAHIBAAN BY ALL MEANS.*


*THIS IS ALL.*

*forgive me please*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 2, 2007)

GuruFateh

Haje tak tusi eh nahi dasya ki, eh kithe likhya ki, asi SGGS nu guru manana he
Vaise curious singh ne sahi jawaab dita he, ki eh gala bhai prahalad singh ne likhiya si,
na ke saade kissi guru ne,

or gurubani te mein pava ga(hak he mera)..bina apne matlab paye, sidha srigranth.org to,..
tusi te hale tak ona da vi answer nahi dita, "Tenth door is opened by GURU(that i put directly for srigranth.org.. so please answer that)"

Again saying sorry for that misinterpretetion.

ya my Guru will come into shine.. because he/she cant be hide.
True Guru will come.. n if Vaheguru ji de mehar hoi .. te tvannu pata chal jayega ki.. Gurubani ki he..
guru ki he.

n m not insulting our SGGS.(I have great respect for our scripture)
Dhan dhan dhan sri guru granth sahib vich meri jaan he. kyonki SGGS di gala to hi menu akal milli te mein apne guru vaal vadya,
SGGS vich te dawai likhi he, par o dawaai te satguru kol ja ke hi milegi,
Dawai dawai pad ke kuch nahi hona..

Tusi vaise menu block hi kar do.. agar tvannu problem he te.

GuruFateh




Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Respected Veer Sahil Ji,*
> 
> *it is simple.*
> 
> ...


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## simpy (Apr 2, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 said:


> GuruFateh
> 
> Haje tak tusi eh nahi dasya ki, eh kithe likhya ki, asi SGGS nu guru manana he
> Vaise curious singh ne sahi jawaab dita he, ki eh gala bhai prahalad singh ne likhiya si,
> ...


 
*Yes Sahil Ji,*

*BUT how long you can give/advertise Poison in the name of Medicine.*

*i must say- ONE DOES NOT HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO SHINE ONE'S GURU- YOU ARE PUTTING MORE KALANK ON YOUR SOCALLED GURU'S FACE BY POSTING AGAIN AND AGAIN-BY ARGUING LIKE THIS.*

*forgive me please*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 2, 2007)

GURUFATEH

TUSI PURI JINDAGI NA PARDE RAHO

VAISE GURUNANAK SAHAB VI KEHNDE NE

PADIYE JEITE BARAS-BARAS, PADIYA JETE MAAS
PADIYE JEITE ARZA, PADIYE JEITE SAAS,
NANAK LEKHE EK GAL, HAUME CHAKNA....

EDA MATALB AAPE LAB LENA...

 KOI NI VAHEGURU AAGE SUCHE MAN NAAL PRATHNA KARNA KI,
1>.AGAR EH MUNDA GALT HE TE , ENU SADBUDHI DO,
 2>.OR AGAR EK MUNDA SAHI HE , TE MERE TE VI AISI MEHAR KARO, KI MENU VI DIKHE,

tUSI ODA HI KARNA JIVE VAHEGURU JI TVANNU KEHAN

VAHEGURU TVANNU KAMYAAB KARE, TE MARG DIKHYE..


RAJ KAREGA KHALSA


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## simpy (Apr 2, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 said:


> GURUFATEH
> 
> TUSI PURI JINDAGI NA PARDE RAHO
> 
> ...


 

*Respected Sahil Ji,*
*endless thanks to you.*

*All Guru Sahibaan, So many Bhagats, *
*read Gurbani all their lives and still are doing it.*

*you can live your life, arguing about it, or live according to what Guru Ji tells us.*

*forgive me please, i am already living in Guru Ji's/Waheguru Ji's Hukam, you worry about yourself- as you are the one after your manua, and influenced by all the tamo guna-keep disrespecting Dhan Dhan Guru Sahibaan over and over again......*



*forgive me please*

*please answer me-*

*QUESTIONS FOR ALL THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN TRYING TO CONVINCE THE SIKHS TO BELIEVE THAT THEIR BELIEF IN 'DHAN “DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI” BEING THEIR LIVING GURU' IS SUBJECT TO BE CORRECTED.*

*A True Guru is a Guru because His Soul is Merged with The Higher Self. *
*For us(SIKHS) ALL OUR GURUS ARE TRUE GURUS.  *
*For us(SIKHS) All our Eleven Gurus are LIVING.  *
*For us(SIKHS) TRUTH never dies. It is not bound to time and space. ALL GURU SAHIBAAN AND ETERNAL LIVING JOTE IN THE FORM OF DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI*
*are everywhere, all the time, Adole, Apaar…… *
*Baani Prabh Ki Sabh ko Bolay, Aap Adole Na Kabhu Doley………*

*IF ME NEECH IS WRONG PLEASE CORRECT ME.:roll: *


*Now we all know this Truth that human body is limited to time and space so has to expire one day. So is Guru Ji’s. There is no Guru living in a physical body forever. CAN YOUR GURU'S PHYSICAL BODY LIVE FOREVER??????*

*And I hope we all agree on this point that Atma never dies. DO WE??????*

*So for us(SIKHS), all our Gurus are here; now; have not gone anywhere. ARE THEY GONE ANYWHERE????*

*For all those who have been beating the drum Living Guru, Living Guru; In a Human Body, In a Human Body; The Only Way, The Only Way-*
*Will your Guru be of NO USE TO YOU AFTER HE/SHE LEAVES HIS/HER HUMAN ABODE??????*

*Are his/her words(truth) those are coming out of his/her mouth now, will be useless after he/she leaves the physical body???????*


*forgive me please*


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 2, 2007)

> *Surinder Kaur Cheema Ji says,
> "Yes Sahil Ji,
> 
> BUT how long you can give/advertise Poison in the name of Medicine.
> ...


 

Okay, this made me laugh. Quoted for truth.


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## rosethorne (Apr 2, 2007)

Dear Khalsa ji, Sahil is writing about DehGuru again and again but quoting, Raaj karega Khalsa, in his every message at end.
He is surely a confused Chela of some called dehdhari guru of him. And How will be a guru who's Chela is so confused. Singhs are never confused at all, Because they know SGGS Maharaj as the living Jyot of Ten Guru's. Sadi vi ardaas hai parmatma age ki Sahil ji nu jaroor sadhbudi dey taki apne guru di kami nu pehchan sake. Sada Guru Poora hai eh sanoo kisi kolo samjhan di lor nahi hai. 
Raaj Karega Khalsa, AAki rahe no koi.


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## rosethorne (Apr 3, 2007)

Dear khalsaji, It is a fact that for no confusion about who willbe the Next Guru, Guru Gobind Singh Saheb Ji have given Gurgadi to SGGS Maharaj Ji. Our Dear Sahilji is so confused about his own writings that how can he be able to interpret SGGS Maharaj so perfectly as he is proving every where in his every messages.
One thing he wrote SGGS Maharaj ji to mainu akal mili, Other thing he wrote SGGS Maharaj ji nu pado aape akal aa javegi, Other thing he wrote that Tusi sari jindagi na parde raho. All the things show that to Read or to not to read, every Gursikh needs to have permission of Sahilji. How disgusting is this that a super confused brain is talking about logics.
This is the main difference between A Gursikh And a Manmukh. Gursikh is finding the truth of life and Manmukh is finding only logics. I wanna give every answer to Sahilji that Why not it is written in SGGS Maharaj ji about who willbe the next Guru. Because Almighty Dhan Dhan Sri Gobind Singh Maharaj have not given any stance to Himself in SGGS Maharaj Ji because He was so Majestic and Charismatic but nothing wanted for Himself. He made Punjh Piaras and Given Gurgadi to SGGS Maharaj ji, for a bigger cause.
Sahilji is not a first person on earth who is questioning about our Gurus. That is our duty as Gursikhs that we provide more answers to such persons. Sahilji please read the below carefully to reach the truth, But may not you willbe agree on this also.




_Shaheed Baba Deep Singh Ji & Bhai Mani Singh Ji _
_(Joint Jathedars)_
_




_
_Baba ji was born in the village of Pahuvind district Amritsar, in the year 1682. Baba ji's fathers name was Bhagto ji and mothers name was Jioonee. From a young age Baba ji had practiced reciting Gurbani, singing Kirtan and doing sangat of fellow Gursikhs, morning and night. He regularly went horse riding and training, in Shastar Vidya (weapons training). He was a lovable and popular character, who conducted himself very well. The people in his locality treated him with great respect because of his religious nature._
_After the battle of Muktsar Sahib in 1704, Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj reached Damdama Sahib-Sabo Ki Talwandi, here Guru ji compiled Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh ji scribing all that Guru Ji uttered. Baba Deep Singh ji carried out the seva of providing the paper, pens and ink, for this great task of preparing Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Baba ji did this seva with the utmost love and respect. When Guru ji went to Sri Hazoor Sahib, Baba ji went along with Maharaj. Baba ji was present in the Panj Pyare when Guru Sahib ji gave the Gurgadi (the Throne of the Sikh Guruship) to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji at Sri Hazoor Sahib ji, Nanded. Along with Baba ji, Pyare Dharam Singh ji, Bhai Har Singh ji, Bhai Santokh Singh ji, and Bhai Gurbaksh Singh took part in this great seva, and completed the Ardas that passed the Gurgadi to our everlasting Master, Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Just before leaving the world Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji ordered Baba Deep Singh ji to go back to Damdama Sahib and continue the Taksal (school) that taught Gursikhs the correct meanings and pronunciations of Gurbani. All the Gurdware at Damdama Sahib were also put under the management of Baba ji by Guru ji. Here Baba ji prepared Gurbani Pothis/Anthologies and sent them to numerous Sikh shrines and thus made a massive effect on promoting/spreading the message of the Guru. Baba ji also assisted Baba Banda Singh ji Bahadar in all of his battles between 1708 and 1715._
_In 1716 Baba ji prepared four more Saroops (editions) of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. They were taken to the other four Takhats; Sri Akal Takhat Sahib Amritsar, Takhat Sri Harmandir ji Patna Sahib (Bihar), Takhat Sri Kesgarh Sahib Anandpur Sahib and Takhat Abichal Nagar Sach Khand Sri Hazoor Sahib Nanded (Maharashtar). _
_Baba Deep Singh ji was not only a great scholar in Gurmukhi (the language created by the Sikh Gurus), but also a great scholar of Arabic and Persian, he was the first writers of the Sikh Panth. Baba ji wrote a Saroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in Arabic and sent it to the Middle East. This was a great service that was done by Baba ji for the Sikhs of these countries._
_The Gursikhs of the Panth had and have great respect for the great scholar, philosopher and saint soldier Baba Deep Singh ji. The title of Nawab given to Bhai Sahib Kapoor Singh ji by Zakariaa Khan, out of respect was placed at the feet of Panj Pyare before it was taken up, Baba ji was present in these Panj Pyare. After Deewan Darbara Singh ji left the world for Sach Khand, two Jathe (battalions) in the form of Budha Dal and Tarna Dal were formed. Tarna Dal was made up of five sections each having a jathedar. Shaheed Baba Deep Singh ji, was appointed one of these five jathedars by the Sikhs. There were 2000 horse mounted Gursikhs in Baba ji's jatha. When Masr Rangar was disrespecting Sri Harmandir Sahib it was a Gursikh, Jathedar Budha Singh ji, from Baba ji's jatha that sent Bhai Sukha Singh and Bhai Mehtab Singh to avenge the sacrilege that was occurring (Masr Rangr had turned Sri Harimandir Sahib into a party hall, with prostitutes). Bhai Sukha Singh and Bhai Mehtab Singh decapitated Masr Rangar and his head at the feet of Jathedar Budha Singh ji when they came back. Baba ji heard news of Jahan Khan continuing atrocities against the Sikhs and the sacred Sarover (nectar pool) of Sri Harmandir Sahib. Baba ji reached Taran Taaran Sahib and bathed in the holy Sarover along with a jatha of 500 Gursikhs, all wearing clothes in the sacred colour of saffron and ready for battle. After making Karah Parshad (an offering made to Guru ji, made using butter, sugar, flour, water and Gurbani) and making the following ardas: "Until Sri Harimandir Sahib is free from the tyrants, I will not become shaheed." Baba ji along with their jatha set off for Sri Amritsar Sahib._
_Both armies met each other in battle, with the battleground becoming full of blood. Yakoob Khan and Baba ji met each other on the battlefield, Baba ji hit Yakoob Khan's head so hard that he collapsed right there and was killed instantly. Upon seeing this Pathan Jahan Khan confronted Baba ji, both their heads were cut off as they struck each simultaneously. A Gursikh called out, "Baba ji, you promised to place your head at the feet of Sri Guru Ram Das Sahib ji at Sri Harimandir Sahib." When Baba ji heard this he picked up his head in his left hand, took up his sword in his right and continued fighting. The tyrants were so astounded by this event that some started to run away, as they left the battlefield they told their fellow soldiers that the General of the Sikhs is fighting without his head._
_While fighting Baba ji progressed to the parkarma (the outer circle) of Sri Harmandir Sahib, with the Sikhs shouting war cries. Baba ji placed his head at the feet of Guru Sahib ji and after completing an ardas left the world for Sach Khand._

It is a fact that Baba Deep Singh proved himself as the hardest Chela of Guru Gobind Singh and No body on this earth dare to challenge him on this. Pls Sahilji are you finding any thing similar in your so called Guru, Then please send him to Amritsar without his Head and on his toes First then surely we will give you the remaining answers. 


Sahilji may not you satisfy with this cause it is not written in SGGS Maharaj JI because you love to conquer SGGS Maharaj ji. But we as Gursikhs if we are then, It IS Written in our hearts that SGGS Maharaj ji is our everlasting Guru, Because we love our Guru not to conquer Him. 

Akal mainu maff kare te sab nu sadbudi de.


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## simpy (Apr 3, 2007)

*Respected rosethorne Ji,*

*Our Veer Sahil Ji is gone to get the answers to the questions in post # 11. Let us see when he comes back.*

*He claimed that he will answer each one of them in very very long details.*

*forgive me please*


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## simpy (Apr 3, 2007)

*Respected rosethorne Ji,*

*very good post rosethorne Ji.*


*Our Veer Sahil Ji is gone to get the answers to the questions in post # 11. Let us see when he comes back and with what.*

*He made a big claim that he will answer each one of them in very very long details.*

*Poor Veer Sahil Ji, i hope Waheguru Ji open his eyes. i certainly feel bad about all this. sometimes even feel that these threads i had to start were little too much but nothing else was working.*

*i tried to reason with him-he went on and on*
*i tried to ignore him- he literally started calling me from every thread he visited to answer him, that too, time and again. and so on...*

*i hope he reads and understands what you have mentioned in the post above.*



*forgive me please*


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 3, 2007)

> *Surinder Kaur Cheema Ji writes, "i certainly feel bad about all this. sometimes even feel that these threads i had to start were little too much but nothing else was working."
> *


 
Missionaries are a plague. Sometimes we need to have the same aggression and persistence as the missionaries. Otherwise, if they encounter no true opposition, they will turn Sikh site into propaganda site. You have done excellent job to counter false propaganda. Also *R**osethorne Ji* has given excellent and clear corrections as well. Thank you Ji.


*DHAN DHAN* *SHAHEED JATHEDAR BABA DEEP SINGH JI!*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 4, 2007)

GuruFateh..

Nice comment by every one..
I have read all comments except rosethorne .. as u r saying that comment is important..I will read that also..
May GOD open my/urs eyes.. jidi vi band he.. odi hi khole.. agar mein galt ha te meri.. nahi te twadi...

kher surinder jee behas karan naal kuch nahi hona...
eh poison nahi he.. he gurubani vich likhya rasta.. ki gurbani vich 10th door baare nahi likhya.???? padna jad tak mein jawaab deva.. oste vi koi comment do.. ki o vi misintrepretation he..
he hehe


AND
I have not gone anywhere to take answer.. but I have software-release to customers thats why m taking time..
SO I WILL ANSWER AFTER THAT.

Gurufateh


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## simpy (Apr 4, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 said:


> GuruFateh..
> 
> Nice comment by every one..
> I have read all comments except rosethorne .. as u r saying that comment is important..I will read that also..
> ...


 
*Respected Veer Ji,*

*take unlimited time,*

*Again i am requesting you with folded hands- Please do not desrespect Gurbani again. it is very clear from your former posts that you have no knowledge about Gurbani. *

*thanks *

*and*

*forgive me please*


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## rosethorne (Apr 4, 2007)

Dear Surinderji and harjasji thanks for encouraging me. Really thankful because I'm nothing at all. 
One more aspect of this that Dhan Dhan Sri Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj had unlimited dimensions to write or even think. He was so Marvellous to any of the things. No miracles at all but so miraculous His Life Span is. In science's view only 3 dimensions are possible.
There are only 3 known dimensions of spatial existence/perception and time (relative motion of things), three dimensions and time with no evidence to suggest there are any more. There's no reasonable basis whatsoever for scientists or non-scientists to claim there are extra-dimensions just by generalizing the word "dimension" or hypothetically extended; speculation that is better for the "alien abduction" tabloid publications to suggest, not for science publications though.

Guru Gobind Singh Sahibji Have written Dasam Granth but at that time There were a few to understand it. But now so much people claiming but not knowing the original facts. These people like Sahilji are doing damage to sikh philosophy only. They are not with extra brain or kirpa of AkalPurakh. They are cunning. Sikhs are on the rise every time they had. Chardi Kala is part of there life. But some people like to intefere in that. 
One story is written in DasamGranth's 5th Volume in Hikaa-itaan
that one king's having 4 sons. Guru Gobind Singh Had like 4th son of that King, fertilize sikhi in 5 piaras and so much a grown community it is now. That was His vision. How can Sahilji or anyother person like him can understand this.

Guru di Kirpa Kirpa Kehan naal Kirpa Nahi Hundi, Sach Shabd Guru samajh len te Kirpa jaroor hundi.
Gursikhan te Kirpa Hamesha Rehndi, Manmukhan de moonh Kaale Rehende. 

WJJKKWJJF.


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## simpy (Apr 4, 2007)

*Respected Veer Sahil Ji,*

*Endless thanks to you for being with us*



sahilmakkar1983 said:


> GuruFateh..
> 
> Nice comment by every one..
> I have read all comments except rosethorne .. as u r saying that comment is important..I will read that also..
> May GOD open my/urs eyes.. jidi vi band he.. odi hi khole.. agar mein galt ha te meri.. nahi te twadi...


 
*anyways Veer Sahil Ji, *

*sadi eyes di fikar tusi na karo, Saada Guru Sahib bahut khyaal rakhdey han, tusi apni socho.*


			
				Sahil Makkar said:
			
		

> kher surinder jee behas karan naal kuch nahi hona...
> eh poison nahi he.. he gurubani vich likhya rasta.. ki gurbani vich 10th door baare nahi likhya.???? padna jad tak mein jawaab deva.. oste vi koi comment do.. ki o vi misintrepretation he..
> he hehe


 
*main ta behas khatam karn di gall kar rahi si, i even ignored you for a good while, you are the one who wanted this behas.*

*asi padyaa hai tahi ta tuhanu keh rahe haan, ki ninda na karo Guru Sahib Di.(what you doing is Saadh/Sant/Guru di Ninda- and i guess you must know what happens to a person who does this)*
*10th door da sanu pataa vi hai, Guru di bari kirpa hai. Tusi apni fikar karo, Veer Mere you are lost big time. *
*Eh marg khandeydhaar hai, jor naal nahi- nirmalta, pavittar pyaar, sat(sach di pahchaan), Santokh and Dayaa naal is da pataa chaldaa hai,*

*telling others to leave their True path-is haumaey, cannot get anywhere by doing so. you have no clue of a true Guru....*



			
				Sahil Makkar said:
			
		

> AND
> I have not gone anywhere to take answer.. but I have software-release to customers thats why m taking time..
> SO I WILL ANSWER AFTER THAT.
> 
> Gurufateh


 
*Veer Sahil Ji, *

*while you are looking for the answers i have another one for you.*

*you were asking in one of your posts-*


			
				Sahil Makkar said:
			
		

> No doubts, surinder behan in other thread said very well, that u must know gurumukhi very well to describe the things u want to,
> and I said again n again, I accept n agree that u must have read SGGS more than me, thats why I always say that u read gurubani n find out, but behan just emphasise on the things I told about GOD(seeing)...
> KABIR JI VERY WELL SAID,
> TERA MERA MANUVA KAISE EK HOE RE,
> ...


 
*Dhan Dhan Bhagat Kabir naal brabari karde ho veer ji, te gurbani di vyakhayaa galat paye karde ho. *



			
				Sahil Makkar said:
			
		

> See gurubani explains so much things::: I will just list out some:::
> 1>. Gurubani is for the people, who are already initiated , SGGS guides all of us, if u have guru then how to follow on, what is value of GURU,
> 
> 2>. Importance of human body, kirtan, satsang.
> ...


 
*Sahil Veer- FYI-*

*Dhan Dhan Sache Paatshah Dhan Guru Raam Das Ji De Bachan Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji De Panna # 982*

*rwm gur srin pRBU rKvwry ]*
*ijau kuMcru qdUAY pkir clwieE kir aUpru kiF insqwry ]1] rhwau ]*
*pRB ky syvk bhuqu Aiq nIky min srDw kir hir Dwry ]*
*myry pRiB srDw Bgiq min BwvY jn kI pYj svwry ]1]*
*hir hir syvku syvw lwgY sBu dyKY bRhm pswry ]*
*eyku purKu ieku ndrI AwvY sB eykw ndir inhwry ]2]*
*hir pRBu Twkuru rivAw sB TweI sBu cyrI jgqu smwry ]*
*Awip dieAwlu dieAw dwnu dyvY ivic pwQr kIry kwry ]3]*
*AMqir vwsu bhuqu muskweI BRim BUlw imrgu isM|Hwry ]*
*bnu bnu FUiF FUiF iPir QwkI guir pUrY Gir insqwry ]4]*
*bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ]*
*guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry ]5]*
*sBu hY bRhmu bRhmu hY psirAw min bIijAw Kwvwry ]*
*ijau jn cMdRhWsu duiKAw iDRstbuDI Apunw Gru lUkI jwry ]6]*
*pRB kau jnu AMqir ird locY pRB jn ky sws inhwry ]*
*ik®pw ik®pw kir Bgiq idRVwey jn pICY jgu insqwry ]7]*
*Awpn Awip Awip pRBu Twkuru pRBu Awpy isRsit svwry ]*
*jn nwnk Awpy Awip sBu vrqY kir ik®pw Awip insqwry ]8]4]*

*for you Sahil Ji, as you cannot understand Gurmukhi*- 

*AMg 982*
*ang 982*
*Page 982*

*nt mhlw 4 ]*
*nutt mehul**aa** 4 *
*Nat, Fourth Mehl:*

*rwm gur srin pRBU rKvwry ]*
*r**aa**m g**u**r suran prubh**oo** rukhuv**aa**r**ae*
*In the Sanctuary of the Guru, the Lord God saves and protects us,*

*ijau kuMcru qdUAY pkir clwieE kir aUpru kiF insqwry ]1] rhwau ]*
*j**i**o k**u**nchur thudh**ooai** pukar chul**aa**e**i**ou kar **oo**pur kat n**i**suth**aa**r**ae*
*as He protected the elephant, when the crocodile seized it and pulled it into the water; He lifted him up and pulled him out. ||1||Pause||*

*pRB ky syvk bhuqu Aiq nIky min srDw kir hir Dwry ]*
*prubh k**ae** s**ae**vuk buh**u**th ath n**ee**k**ae** man surudh**aa** kar har dh**aa**r**ae*
*God's servants are sublime and exalted; they enshrine faith for Him in their minds.*

*myry pRiB srDw Bgiq min BwvY jn kI pYj svwry ]1]*
*m**ae**r**ae** prabh surudh**aa** bhugath man bh**aa**v**ai** jun k**ee** p**ai**j suv**aa**r**ae*
*Faith and devotion are pleasing to my God's Mind; He saves the honor of His humble servants. ||1||*

*hir hir syvku syvw lwgY sBu dyKY bRhm pswry ]*
*har har s**ae**vuk s**ae**v**aa** l**aa**g**ai** subh dh**ae**kh**ai** brehum pus**aa**r**ae*
*The servant of the Lord, Har, Har, is committed to His service; He sees God pervading the entire expanse of the universe.*

*eyku purKu ieku ndrI AwvY sB eykw ndir inhwry ]2]*
*e**ae**k p**u**rukh e**i**k nudhur**ee**aa**v**ai** subh e**ae**k**aa** nudhar n**i**h**aa**r**ae*
*He sees the One and only Primal Lord God, who blesses all with His Glance of Grace. ||2||*

*hir pRBu Twkuru rivAw sB TweI sBu cyrI jgqu smwry ]*
*har prubh th**aa**k**u**r rav**iaa** subh th**aaee** subh ch**ae**r**ee** juguth sum**aa**r**ae*
*God, our Lord and Master, is permeating and pervading all places; He takes care of the whole world as His slave.*

*Awip dieAwlu dieAw dwnu dyvY ivic pwQr kIry kwry ]3]*
*aa**p dhae**iaa**l dhae**iaa** dh**aa**n dh**ae**v**ai** v**i**ch p**aa**thur k**ee**r**ae** k**aa**r**ae*
*The Merciful Lord Himself mercifully gives His gifts, even to worms in stones. ||3||*

*AMqir vwsu bhuqu muskweI BRim BUlw imrgu isM|Hwry ]*
*anthar v**aa**s buh**u**th m**u**suk**aaee** bhram bh**oo**l**aa** m**i**rug s**i**nngu**aa**r**ae*
*Within the deer is the heavy fragrance of musk, but he is confused and deluded, and he shakes his horns looking for it.*

*bnu bnu FUiF FUiF iPir QwkI guir pUrY Gir insqwry ]4]*
*bun bun t**oo**t t**oo**t f**i**r th**aa**k**ee** g**u**r p**oo**r**ai** ghar n**i**suth**aa**r**ae*
*Wandering, rambling and roaming through the forests and woods, I exhausted myself, and then in my own home, the Perfect Guru saved me. ||4||*

*bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ]*
*b**aa**n**ee** g**u**r**oo** g**u**r**oo** h**ai** b**aa**n**ee** v**i**ch b**aa**n**ee** anmr**i**th s**aa**r**ae*
*The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained.*

*guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry ]5]*
*g**u**r b**aa**n**ee** keh**ai** s**ae**vuk jun m**aa**n**ai** puruthakh g**u**r**oo** n**i**suth**aa**r**ae*
*If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him. ||5||*

*sBu hY bRhmu bRhmu hY psirAw min bIijAw Kwvwry ]*
*subh h**ai** brehum brehum h**ai** pusar**iaa** man b**ee**j**iaa** kh**aa**v**aa**r**ae*
*All is God, and God is the whole expanse; man eats what he has planted.*

*ijau jn cMdRhWsu duiKAw iDRstbuDI Apunw Gru lUkI jwry ]6]*
*j**i**o jun chundhreh**aa**s dh**u**kh**iaa** dhr**i**suttub**u**dh**ee** ap**u**n**aa** ghur l**oo**k**ee** j**aa**r**ae*
*When Dhrishtabudhi tormented the humble devotee Chandrahaans, he only set his own house on fire. ||6||*

*pRB kau jnu AMqir ird locY pRB jn ky sws inhwry ]*
*prubh ko jun anthar r**i**dh l**o**ch**ai** prubh jun k**ae** s**aa**s n**i**h**aa**r**ae*
*God's humble servant longs for Him within his heart; God watches over each breath of His humble servant.*

*ik®pw ik®pw kir Bgiq idRVwey jn pICY jgu insqwry ]7]*
*k**i**rup**aa** k**i**rup**aa** kar bhugath dhr**i**rr**aa**e**ae** jun p**ee**sh**ai** jug n**i**suth**aa**r**ae*
*Mercifully, mercifully, He implants devotion within his humble servant; for his sake, God saves the whole world. ||7||*

*Awpn Awip Awip pRBu Twkuru pRBu Awpy isRsit svwry ]*
*aa**pun **aa**p **aa**p prubh th**aa**k**u**r prubh **aa**p**ae** sr**i**satt suv**aa**r**ae*
*God, our Lord and Master, is Himself by Himself; God Himself embellishes the universe.*

*jn nwnk Awpy Awip sBu vrqY kir ik®pw Awip insqwry ]8]4]*
*jun n**aa**nuk **aa**p**ae**aa**p subh vuruth**ai** kar k**i**rup**aa**aa**p n**i**suth**aa**r**ae*
*O servant Nanak, He Himself is all-pervading; in His Mercy, He Himself emancipates all. ||8||4||*



*i know you are not going to believe this either, but anyways i had to bring it up.*

*Read Stanza # 5. Dhan Guru Raam Das Paatshah says- Bani Guru Hai, Guru Bani Hai and whosoever humbly believes Bani, Bani(GURU) saves that person.*
*There is no difference in Guru or Guru's Bani. Guru is unlimited. Guru is already mearged with SuperSelf- that's why his words contain AMBROSIAL NECTAAR-AMRIT. AND AMRIT KADI BEHA NAHI HUNDAA....*
*where are you lost my veer, you have no clue what you are talking about.*

*and you are actually saying this-*


			
				Sahil Makkar said:
			
		

> But i have found a serious issue here is that, our surinder behan is not at all interested in knowing .. what way guru-sahiban wants to tell us,


 
*yes i am not interested in knowing that is not needed. if you had something that was worth considering- i might have. *
*Instead you are rejecting the ideas represented in Bani*
*and same you is telling others to Paro Gurbani*
*and same you is telling others-kite parde hi na reho Gurbani*
*and same you is twisting the meaning of Dhan Dhan Gurbani Lines *
*Lots of your posts Do NOT make any sense at all*
*what you want me to know?????*



*your question-*


			
				Sahil Makkar said:
			
		

> I would ask again, where it is written that we dont need guru, in gurubani only..


* 
does not make any sense, what are you asking???? it is confusing

*


			
				Sahil Makkar said:
			
		

> GURUBANI doesnt says this defination of sikh..
> 
> WHERE IT IS WRITTEN THAT WE SHOULD FOLLOW ONLY SGGS AS GURU..
> 
> ...


 




*Gurbani tells us the importance of Guru and it proves the POINT that GURBANI IS GURU.*

*what else do we need to know from you?????*

*ALSO TELL ME WHERE IT IS WRITTEN THAT YOU CANNOT HAVE GURBANI AS YOUR GURU- *


*GURU SAHIB NE TA BANI NU 'NIRANKAAR' KEHA HAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:roll: *

*ki tuhada guru Nirankaar to vi uppar hai *

*forgive me please*


----------



## rosethorne (Apr 4, 2007)

Dear surinderji, i respect you and admire you, and salute to you. Great r u.


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## simpy (Apr 4, 2007)

*Waheguru Aap Karan Kravan Vaala me neech is nothing*


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## rosethorne (Apr 4, 2007)

Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Waheguru Aap Karan Kravan Vaala me neech is nothing*


 

Dear surinderji, Neech oh hi keh sakda hai jo sab te ooch ho. U r great. May God give you all the real wealths of life. God Bless you.


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 4, 2007)

Bhainji Surinder Kaur Cheema Ji,

Thank you again for an amazing post.  I will read it over and over for the many powerful truths you are sharing with us from Guru's Bani.


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## rosethorne (Apr 7, 2007)

.Sorry double post


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## rosethorne (Apr 7, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 said:


> GuruFateh..
> 
> Nice comment by every one..
> I have read all comments except rosethorne .. as u r saying that comment is important..I will read that also..
> ...


 


Dear Gursikhs, I have seen Sahilji Betraying Gurbani And Gursikhs at same time he use to write SGGS to mainu akal mili. Too many wrong doers use Gurbani as their shelter. Because it is a sentimental issue to Gursikhs. But as a Gursikh nobody can hear this. If any body wants any knowledge then too many sites are there to share. But annoying somebody or Gurbani is simply unbearable to a Gursikh. And in my view Time has come to make an end to it for Saahilji. It is time to open your eyes Saahilji second time in this topic, I told you about why didn't it is mentioned in SGGS Maharaj ji about our next Guru before in this topic.
I have copied this message below from Dasam Dvar - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

Kindly Saahilji Search for truth here, not in fake truths of your life.

*DASAM DVAR* (Sanskrit Dasamadvara), literally meaning *"tenth gate"*, has been refered to in SGGS signifying the door to enlightenment and vision being only through NAAM DAAN & ISHNAAN. 
This term originate from the Hathayogic system, where it is also known as brahmrandhra, moksadvara, mahapatha and madhya marga, the terms frequently used in the esoteric literature of medieval India. Also sometimes written as *"Dasam DUara"* 
It is a term of religious physiology and its significance lies in its being a concept in the framework of soteriological ideology. Nine apertures (navdvaras) opening towards outside the body serve the physical mechanism of human personality but when their energy, normally being wasted, is consciously channelized towards the self, the tenth gate or the dasamdvar opens inside the body and renders a hyper-physical service by taking the seeker beyond the bondage of embodied existence. 
The human body is endowed with nine doors also called holes or streams. These nine are: two eyes, two ears, two nostrils, mouth, ****, and urethra. All these are vital organs of living organism called human being. The Pali Suttanipata (verse 199. In Khuddak nikaya, vol. 1, p. 297) is perhaps one of the very first Indian texts which mentions the idea of nine ‘holes’ in the body. It is from a philosophically ascetic or Sramanic standpoint that the human body is described in this text as a mass of bones, sinews, flesh, etc. and as a bag for belly, intestines, liver, heart, bladder, lungs, kidneys, blood, bile, etc. “Ever from its nine streams (navahi sotehi) the unclean flows.” The Svetasvatara Upanisad (III. 18) and the Bhagavadgita (V. 13) refer to human body as “a city with nine gates” (nava dvara pure dehi) in which the Self dwells, neither acting nor causing to act. The Katha Upanisad (2.51), however, describes human abode of the Unborn One as “a city with eleven gates” (puram-ekadasa-dvaram). Mystical and soteriological significance of dasam dvar is found in the writings of the siddhas and the sants. 
As a matter of fact the history of the idea of dasam dvar begins with the Buddhist Siddhas and we owe its popularity to Natha yogis. The term as well as the concept first appears in the works of Siddhas who flourished during the period between eighth and eleventh centuries. The Siddhas transmitted the theory of dasamdvar as a mystical spiritual gateway to Vaisnava Sants and thence it came to the Sikh [Gurus]]. The process of transmission was direct and natural since the Sants (or Bhagats) and Gurus lived and taught in a society thoroughly acquainted with and influenced by the terms, concepts and precepts of the Siddhas. Although the concept of dasam dvar remained the same, its functional value in theistic theology and socio-devotional methodology of the Sikh Gurus became decidedly different from its original one in the non-theistic ideology and esoteric-ascetic methodology of Buddhist Siddhas and Natha yogis. 

In the Buddhist caryapadas or hymns of spiritual practice, the dasama dvara is also called vairocana-dvara, the brilliant gate or the supreme gate. In the texts of the Natha school such as the Siddhasiddhanda paddhati (II. 6), the mouth of sankhini is called the tenth gate (sankhini-bibaram-dasam dvaram). Sankhini is the name of a curved duct (banka nala) through which nectar (soma rasa, maharasa or amrit) passes downwards. This curved duct lies between the moon (candra) below the sahasrara-cakra or thousand-petalled lotus plexus in the cebrum region and the hollow in the palatal region. The Goraksavijaya describes sankhini as a double-mouthed (dvi-mukhia) serpent (sarpini), one mouth above, the other below. The life elixir called amrit or nectar pours down through the mouth of sankhini. This mouth called dasamd var has to be shut up and the quintessence of life, amrit or maharasa has to be conserved by the yogi. The amrit which pours down from the dasam dvar falls down in the fire of the sun (surya) where it is dried up by time (kalagni). The yogi by closing the dasam dvar and preserving the amrit deceives Time (death) and by drinking it himself through cumbersome khecari-mudra he attains immortality. Some other hathayogic texts name susumna nari instead of sankhini. However, all the texts agree that the brahmrandhra or the dasamdvar is the cavity on the roof of the palate and khecari mudra has to be performed for tasting the elixir of the amrit pouring down from it. 
The notion of dasam dvar, written as dasam duar, occurs several times in the Guru Granth Sahib. Sikhism is a strictly monotheistic system belief and it must be stated at the outset that according to Sikh view of the dasam dvar, the tenth door opens into the abode of God, the Creator — dasam duara agam apara param purakh ki ghati (GG, 974), and again—nau ghar thape thapanharai dasvai vasa alakh aparai (GG, 1036). This fact distinguishes Sikhism from the non-theistic non-dualistic philosophy of the Siddhas. Second outstanding difference is that Sikhism is predominantly a devotional pathway, relying chiefly on the discipline of bhakti, i.e. loving devotion for the divine; the Siddhas and Nathas, on the other hand, practised Tantra or Hathayoga in which the disciplines of psychology and physiology were fused together. With these differences the notion of dasam duar in Sikhism employs the same terms and symbols as used by Siddhas and Nathas. 

The nine doors (nau daryaje) and the tenth door are often mentioned together to show their differences. The unstruck sound is heard at the tenth door when it is freed from the shackles of nine doors in the body—nau darvaje dasvai mukta anahad sabadu vajavania (GG, 110). It is believed that the tenth door is closed by a hard diamond-like door (bajar kapat) which is haumai (self-centredness). This hard and strong door is opened and the darkness of haumai is dispelled by the instruction of the Teacher (Guru). In other words, the tenth door is the door of enlightenment and it opens only when the door consisting of haumai is broken. It is taken for granted in Sikhism that the tenth door is the supreme state of the mind. It is certainly not a physical door; it is that state of purified consciousness in which God is visible and all contacts with physical existence are cut off. It is called a being’s own house (nij-ghar), that is to say, a being’s real nature which is like light (joti sarup). One hears day and night the anahad sabda there when one dwells in one’s own house through the tenth door—nau dar thake dhavatu rahae, dasvai nijghari vasa pae (GG, 124). 

At few places in the Gurbani, the term dasam duar has been used to denote ten organs—five sensory organs and five organs of action, i.e. jnanendriyas and karmendriyas. Says Guru Nanak: “Hukami sanjogi gari das duar, panch vasahi mili joti apar”—in the fortress of the body created in his hukam are ten doors. In this fort five subtle elements of sabda (sound), sparsa (touch), rupa (sight), rasa (taste) and grandha (smell) abide having the infinite light of the Lord in them (GG, 152). The amrit which flows at the tenth door is the essence of Divine name (nam ras) according to the Guru; it is not the physical elixir of immortality conceived by the Siddhas, nor is this amrit to be found by awakening kundalini or by practising khecari mudra; it is to be found through the Teacher’s instruction. When the Satguru is encountered then one stops from running (after the nine doors) and obtains the tenth door. Here at this door the immortalizing food (amrit bhojan), the innate sound (sahaj dhuni) is produced—dhavatu thammia satiguri miliai dasva duaru paia; tithai amrit bhojanu sahaj dhuni upajai jitu sabadi jagatu thammi rahaia (GG, 441). 

This wholesome spot is not outside the physical frame. The second Guru also refers to the fort (kotu) with nine doors; the tenth door is hidden (gupatu); it is closed by a hard door which can be opened by the key of the Guru’s word (GG, 954). According to Guru Amar Das, Nanak III, he alone is released who conquers his mind and who keeps it free from defilement; arriving at the tenth door, and staying there he understands all the three spheres (GG, 490). 

The importance of dasamdvar is of considerable theological interest. Here at the tenth door the anahad sabda (unstruck sound) is heard; here the divine drink of immortality trickles down; and here the devotee meets with the invisible and inaccessible transcendental Brahman who is described by the sages as unutterable (GG, 1002). The devotional theology of Sikhism requires that the gateway of ultimate release can open only by God’s will. The tenth door is closed with the adamantine hard door (bajar kapat) which can be opened duly with the Guru’s word. Inside the front (i.e. the body) is the tenth door, the house in the cavity (gupha ghar); in this fort nine doors have been fixed according to Divine ordinance (hukam); in the tenth door the Invisible, Unwritten, Unlimited Person shows Himself—bhitari kot gupha ghar jai nau ghar thape hukami rajai; dasvai purakhu alekhu apari ape alakhu lakhaida (GG, 1033). This is the view expressed by the founder of Sikhism and he repeats it at another place also. He says that the Establisher has established nine houses (nau ghar) or nine doors in the city of this body; the Invisible and Infinite dwells at the tenth house or tenth door (GG, 1036). The nectar-like essence (amrit ras) is dripped by the Satguru; it comes out appearing at the tenth door. The sounding of the unstruck sound announces, as it were, the manifestation of God at this door — Amrit rasu satiguru chuaia; dasavai duari pragatu hoi aia; taha anahad sabad vajahi dhuni bani sahaje sahaji samai he (GG, 1069).
Occasionally the term das duar is used in gurbani in the sense of sensory and motor organs of body which should be kept under control. For the most part, however, the Sikh Scripture stresses the need for realization of the dasam duar, apart from God’s ordinance (hukam) and Teacher’s compassion (kirpa, prasad) and the necessity of transcending the realm of three-strand nature (triguna maya). Kabir, for instance, says that the tenth door opens only when the trinity (trikuti) of sattva, rajas and tamas is left behind—trikuti chhutai dasva daru khulhai ta manu khiva bhai (GG, 1123).


----------



## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 10, 2007)

Excellent insights Rosethorne Ji.  Thank you so much for sharing.  Beautifully written.


----------



## rosethorne (Apr 10, 2007)

Dear harjas ji, If God is everywhere then we have to accept that Devil is also everywhere but Devil can't survive or succeed till last. So I have to thank you for this great regards, Thank you from Heart.


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 13, 2007)

GuruFateh,

Though m really busy in office, but just to check what's going on, I came here,
Thanks Rosethorne paaji, tusi bada hi vadiya analysis kita he,
mein Saara te nahi pad paya.(time sachi bilkul vi nahi he office ch)..
but what I have read .. I found it really excellent.. a great effort by u for bringing such data about dasam-dwar on to this forum....
I have something to say, but will do later after reading it completely.
Yes tenth door can be opened by perfect master only as u wrote.

Thanks,
Sahil Makkar
GuruFateh


rosethorne said:


> Dear Gursikhs, I have seen Sahilji Betraying Gurbani And Gursikhs at same time he use to write SGGS to mainu akal mili. Too many wrong doers use Gurbani as their shelter. Because it is a sentimental issue to Gursikhs. But as a Gursikh nobody can hear this. If any body wants any knowledge then too many sites are there to share. But annoying somebody or Gurbani is simply unbearable to a Gursikh. And in my view Time has come to make an end to it for Saahilji. It is time to open your eyes Saahilji second time in this topic, I told you about why didn't it is mentioned in SGGS Maharaj ji about our next Guru before in this topic.
> I have copied this message below from Dasam Dvar - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.
> 
> Kindly Saahilji Search for truth here, not in fake truths of your life.
> ...


----------



## simpy (Apr 13, 2007)

*Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,*

*in continuation of the first post-*

*Second:*



			
				Sahil Makkar said:
			
		

> ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਦੀਖਿਆ ਕੈਸੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥
> बिनु गुर दीखिआ कैसे गिआनु ॥
> bin gur deekhi-aa kaisay gi-aan.
> Without the Guru's Teachings, how can anyone obtain spiritual wisdom?
> ...


 
*very interesting Sahil Ji.*

BYrau mhlw 5 ]
ibnu bwjy kYso inriqkwrI ]
ibnu kMTY kYsy gwvnhwrI ]
jIl ibnw kYsy bjY rbwb ]
nwm ibnw ibrQy siB kwj ]1]
nwm ibnw khhu ko qirAw ]
ibnu siqgur kYsy pwir pirAw ]1] rhwau ]
ibnu ijhvw khw ko bkqw ]
ibnu sRvnw khw ko sunqw ]
ibnu nyqRw khw ko pyKY ]
nwm ibnw nru khI n lyKY ]2]
ibnu ibidAw khw koeI pMifq ]
ibnu AmrY kYsy rwj mMifq ]
ibnu bUJy khw mnu Thrwnw ]
nwm ibnw sBu jgu baurwnw ]3]
ibnu bYrwg khw bYrwgI ]
ibnu hau iqAwig khw koaU iqAwgI ]
ibnu bis pMc khw mn cUry ]
nwm ibnw sd sd hI JUry ]4]
ibnu gur dIiKAw kYsy igAwnu ]
ibnu pyKy khu kYso iDAwnu ]
ibnu BY kQnI srb ibkwr ]
khu nwnk dr kw bIcwr ]5]6]19]


*here Guru Ji is talking about all those things- how you cannot do certain things without the source it is coming from….*

*Now without seeing, meditation is not possible- it does not mean that eyes have to see something specific first(as you have presumed)- it is general idea of seeing within meditation.*



*And FYI Sahil Veer- in Spritual sense seeing has a very deep meaning- that cannot be described……. Especially where you are, it cannot make any sense to you, you have to get out of this veil of ego to feel it, see it hear it…. *

*What happens with meditation????-VISUALIZATION OF WHAT TRUTH/GOD/ALMIGHTY is….*

*And God is not limited to a little small thing in a little small body. It is apaar, beyant, without any limits of any SORT………*



*Sahil Ji, *

*By twisting Guru Ji’s word you are loosing the touch to the reality.*

*Other references-*
*Respected Sahib Singh Ji-*

*hy BweI! auh smwDI kwhdI, jy Awpxy ieSt dw drsn nhIN huMdw?*

*For you Sahil Veer as you cannot read this kind of Punjabi-*
*Hey bhai! Oh Smadhi Kahdi, Jey aapney isht da darshan nahee hundaa.*


*Mere Veer, stop doing surface sailing. Seeing God is not a child’s play. One has to be purified in and out completely- avayain dujiaan magar lag ke aapney sir paapan daa bhaar na chadaa, Tenu koi khabar nahi tu kee kar rehaa hain. *

*Somebody is making a big fool of you my dear brother. Choice is yours- you have Gurbani and you have somebody who is misguiding you……..*

*also read*
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-...o-objections-raised-sahil-ji-3.html#post53243

*Forgive me please*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 13, 2007)

GuruFateh
Lo apni likhi gal hi dubara pad lo
*Hey bhai! Oh Smadhi Kahdi, Jey aapney isht da darshan nahee hundaa.

bhai sahab ...ethe darshan di hi gal kar rahe he, oh menu hoa he, or honda he..
GUR da kaam hi te rab dikhana he

Tvannu darshan hoa nahi na..
Tai eho jiya gala karde ho..

menu samjh nahi aa raya ki... tvannu sidha sidha likhya samjh kyon nahi aanda, SGGS vich sab sidha sidha hi te likhya he

BIN GUR DIKHYA...
again read it, intrepretations from any one.

ITs saying na, that without seeing one cant attain the knowledge.
thats all.


Ha behan, I do agree with ur understanding from SGGS ...
that BANI is nirankar...

but sister i wud request u again to read SGGS and emphasise 
"WHAT IS BANI"
AS I told earlier with help of our great Scripture..
that BANI is in within us..

BANI BIRLA VICHAAR SI, JE KOI GURMUKH HOE,
EH BANI MAHAPURAKH KI, NIJ GHAR VAASA HOE..

(hope u will not feel this as misinter...)
means::ALL it means is BANI resides in NIJ GHAR(within body)

that is BANI..

I wud like to request u to just search on srigranth.org
put BANI as keyword there... and u will find all references to BANI..

and u urself can understand... I hope u will not say the interpretations of srigranth.org as wrong..

Sorry, If I said something wrong

GuruFateh.


*



Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> *Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,*
> 
> *in continuation of the first post-*
> 
> ...


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## simpy (Apr 13, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 said:


> GuruFateh
> Lo apni likhi gal hi dubara pad lo
> *Hey bhai! Oh Smadhi Kahdi, Jey aapney isht da darshan nahee hundaa.*
> 
> ...


 
*Respected Veer you are truely being brainwashed badly*

*Bani nu adhaar banaa ke jeoon nu dassan vaaleyeo, je tuhadaa Guru eidaa krani vaala hai ta mere savaalan de jawaab keoon nahi sujhde tuhaanu*
*http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-t...html#post53243*


*you are chasing your own tail my brother*

*i know srigranth.org and many other sites, no dearth of these....*

*transltions cannot teach you Gurbani*
*you need to reach to the reality-LEARN GURMUKHI FROM A REALIABLE SOURCE*

*Read Bhai Veer Singh Ji*
*Read Bhai Sahib Singh Ji*

*READ GURBANI AND THEN LIVE THE TRUTH IT TELLS YOU*

*GET OUT OF THIS KOOR MY BROTHER*

*YOU ARE LOST BIG TIME*

*NONE OF 'YOUR OWN EXPLANATIONs' EVER MAKE ANY SENSE*

*forgive me please*


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## simpy (Apr 13, 2007)

sahilmakkar1983 said:


> *menu samjh nahi aa raya ki... tvannu sidha sidha likhya samjh kyon nahi aanda, SGGS vich sab sidha sidha hi te likhya he*
> 
> *BIN GUR DIKHYA...*
> *again read it, intrepretations from any one.*
> ...


 
*Respected Veer Sahil Ji, how many of you are answering these posts-*

*everytime your explanation changes or is twisted :hmm: *

*the one that i was refering to, previously posted translations by you says-*



			
				Sahil Makkar said:
			
		

> ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਦੀਖਿਆ ਕੈਸੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥
> बिनु गुर दीखिआ कैसे गिआनु ॥
> bin gur deekhi-aa kaisay gi-aan.
> Without the Guru's Teachings, how can anyone obtain spiritual wisdom?


 
*no doubt you are confused my brother*

*waheguru bhalaa karey*

*forgive me please*


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## ekmusafir_ajnabi (Apr 16, 2007)

Dear Admin,

Sincere apologies for my previous message in reply to the topic above. Many thanks for removing it. I shall exercise constraint in the future. I hope my new reply will be more palatable.

ekmusafir_ajnabi


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## ekmusafir_ajnabi (Apr 16, 2007)

Mr Sahil



> _Surinder Kaur Cheema
> *YOU HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF GURBANI WHATSOEVER, THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T HAVE ANY RESPECT FOR GURBANI*
> 
> _


_

_I totally agree with the above quote by Surinder Kaur Cheema.

You are repeatedly manipulating the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. You do not posess the Qualities or Understanding of a Bhramgyani. The quotes you are using to make your own point actually translate as follows: 

ibnu gur dIiKAw kYsy igAwnu ]
Without the Guru's instruction (Naam), how can Divine knowledge be acquired?

dIiKAw = instruction(Naam) and NOT seeing.

ibnu pyKy khu kYso iDAwnu ]
Say, without seeing, how can one fix his attention?

This line refers to the visionary sense, of seeing and NOT referring to seeing God. For example a blind person cannot be asked to concentrate on an object because he cannot see the object. (That does not imply that he cannot concentrate.) Therefore you have to be able to see the object with your eyes to be able to concentrate. 

This shabad is a conversation between Guru ji and a Siddh. The siddh is trying to quiz to confuse Guru ji on the issue of meditation in order to make his own point. A bit like what you have been trying to do for some time. The following two lines are the answer to the Siddh by Guru ji and let these lines also be a lesson to you as well. Have fear of God. 

ibnu BY kQnI srb ibkwr ]
Without the Lord's fear, all utterance is in vain.
khu nwnk dr kw bIcwr ]5]6]19]
Says Nanak, this alone is the doctrine of the Lord's court.


hukmY AMdir sBu ko bwhir hukm n koie ] 
hukmai andar sabh ko baahar hukam na ko-ay.
Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command.
nwnk hukmY jy buJY q haumY khY n koie ]2] 
naanak hukmai jay bujhai ta ha-umai kahai na ko-ay. ||2||
O Nanak, one who understands His Command, does not speak in ego. ||2||

It is clear from the above verses and your mis-translations that you have not understood the Hukam. 

Stop Day Dreaming and feel the Earth beneath you, where you still reside.


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## simpy (Apr 16, 2007)

REspected EkMusafirAjnabi Ji,

it is not removed,
forum is working on the new setup

your reply is the best one

we all are missing 2/3 days posts, will soon be resumed

thanks for your contributions


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## Harjas Kaur Khalsa (Apr 16, 2007)

> *your reply is the best one
> *


*
Quoted for truth! *


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## ekmusafir_ajnabi (Apr 17, 2007)

Jaisī mai āvai kẖasam kī baṇī ṯaisṛā karī gi&shy;ān vė lālo.
As the Word of the Forgiving Lord comes to me, so do I express it, O Lalo.

Mera mujme kish nahi, Jo kuj hai so Tera
Tera tujko sompte, kya lage mera


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## simpy (Apr 17, 2007)

ekmusafir_ajnabi said:


> Jaisī mai āvai kẖasam kī baṇī ṯaisṛā karī gi&shy;ān vė lālo.
> As the Word of the Forgiving Lord comes to me, so do I express it, O Lalo.
> 
> Mera mujme kish nahi, Jo kuj hai so Tera
> Tera tujko sompte, kya lage mera


 
*Waheguru*


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## sahilmakkar1983 (Apr 20, 2007)

ekmusafir_ajnabi ji,

truly said about hukam... but then do we all undrstand his hukam??







Waheguru






ekmusafir_ajnabi said:


> Mr Sahil
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## gursikh (Apr 25, 2007)

heeyy Surinder kaur Cheema...

why u deleted the lines from it... 
*" 				Last edited by Surinder Kaur Cheema : 04-21-2007 at 03:45 PM. 				Reason: ALL that was 'MISINTERPRETATION OF GURBANI' IS DELETED"
*
WE ALL WANT TO SEE THE LINES... WE ALL WANT TO SEE WHAT MISINTERPRETATION WAS PASTED HERE.... I HOPE U WILL PUT THE EXACT THINGS BACK ....NO TWISTED THNGS  

THNKS...

GURSIKH


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## simpy (Apr 25, 2007)

* Respected gursikh Ji  ,*

*he will be back with more, don't worry, if not him it will be somebody else- NEXT TIME NOTHING WILL BE DELETED *

* happy now  *

*sorry for doing that respected gursikh ji, i didn't know there are gursikhs; who are so curious to see how others DISRESPECT THEIR GURU JI....*

*no wonder we never heard from you while Respected Sahil ji kept on doing this task over and over again....*

*humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness*


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## SSMDCX (Apr 25, 2007)

These Are The Illusions Delusions And Dubidha Due To Andh Agyan People Are Living In  - Sahil Ji Your Divine Wisdom Is Correct - The Person With Complete Self Realization Is Just Beyond Description - Such A Person Goes Beyond Trihu Gun Of Maya And Can't Be Understood By The Common Beings, It Is The Divine Truth, Bani Is The Mahima Of Akal Purakh, His Gyan Saroop. Mahima Of Naam, Mahima Of Sants And Bhagats And Braham Gyanis, Bani Has Come From Sach Khand And Can Only Be Understood By Reaching That Level, It Is Beyond The Comprehension Of Common Human Beings - It Is Like A Fourth Grader Trying To Solve The Rocket Science Problem, So Please Keep Up Your Bandgi And Keep On Serving And Delivering The Eternal Truth, Everything Else Is Kood - The Eternal Truth Will Always Prevail.

Dassan Dass


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## simpy (Apr 25, 2007)

* Respected Saadh Sangat Ji  ,*

*Dhan Dhan Guru Sahebaan Di Beadbee karan valleyaan di koi kami nahee.*
*Ek se badd kar doojaa .... it looks like this one is a PHD in Guru Ji's Nindyaa.*


*how discretely calling Bani- THE MAHIMA OF AKAAL PURKH *
*and Supporting a SHABAD GURU's NINDAK and MISINTERPRETER*

*Wow, EGO SIR CHARR KE BOL RAHI HAI..... Waheguru Mehar Karan, Sumat Bakshan....*

*Forgive me please*


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## gursikh (Apr 25, 2007)

Surinder ji..

SSA

sorry but i didnt mean it that way... I m neither in favor nor against anybody.. but was just curios to know what did he write so much that you were intended to delete it... everyone should know the disrespectful one and his disrespect...

also although i never responded to the topic but i did just went thru some of the discussion... so it raised my curiosity even more that what made the humble sewak of GURUji(i m referring to U) do such a thing...
I can understand your feelings U would have felt after reading it... 

many apologies for hurtung ur feelings... 


Waheguru je ka khalsa Waheguru je ke fateh

Gursikh


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## simpy (Apr 25, 2007)

gursikh said:


> Surinder ji..
> 
> SSA
> 
> ...


 
*Respected Gursikh ji tuhaadi rab ne sun laee tusi dekhyaa nahi, there is another one- who is calling Bani- Akaal Purkh di Mehima and supporting the distorter of Gurbani.*

*i am not hurt, don't worry, there is nothing to get hurt anymore. Just here to encourage others to do Naam Jap and Follow Gurbani Truely, Truthfully....*
*if even a single person goes towards that path just by reading my words- that is enough......*

*and that action of deleting his writting- i apologise for that, it was an honest effort to discourage him to do the same PAAP again and again. but i guess it can also be taken by some as rude behaviour, SO I WILL BE CAREFUL IN FUTURE, i promise.... Sangat decides, right. and again i apologise for making you feel bad as well.*

*forgive me please*


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## gursikh (Apr 25, 2007)

WAheguru je ka khalsa 
Waheguru je ke fateh.

ek gall hor sanjhi karna chahangi sadh sangat nal 

ehde vich koyi shak nahin ke Guru Gobind singh je to baad unha de gaadi agae chalan vaste sikh dharam vich koyi nahin ayega... 
lekin GURUAN ne eh kadi nahin keha ke unha de baad es sansar vich kade koyi satguru hi nahin hovega...Balki oh te kehnde ne ke 

*"satjug tai maani-o chhali-o bal baavan bhaa-i-o.(1390-7)
*In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, You were pleased to deceive Baal the king, in the form of a dwarf.
*
taraytai tai maani-o raam raghoovans kahaa-i-o.(1390-8)
*In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called Raam of the Raghu dynasty.
*
du-aapur krisan muraar kans kirtaarath kee-o.(1390-8)
*In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.
*
ugarsain ka-o raaj abhai bhagtah jan dee-o.**(1390-9)*
You blessed Ugrasain with a kingdom, and You blessed Your humble devotees with fearlessness.
* 
kalijug parmaan naanak gur angad amar kahaa-i-o.**(1390-9)*
In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das.
*
shree guroo raaj abichal atal aad purakh furmaa-i-o. ||7||**(1390-10)*
The sovereign rule of the Great Guru is unchanging and permanent, according the Command of the Primal Lord God.Guru sahiban te akal purukh da he roop se..oh taan sab jande se jaani jaan se... aur unhaa ne he taan guru granth sahib je de vich guru de ennhi mahima gaye hai.. te sanu sikhya ditti hai ke kisi ve puran guru de ninda nahin karni .. satguru da hamesha adar samman karna chahida...

*sant kaa nindak mahaa attaa-ee.*(280-1)
The slanderer of the Saint is the worst evil-doer. 

*sant kaa nindak khin tikan na paa-ee.*(280-1)
The slanderer of the Saint has not even a moment's rest.

*sant kaa nindak mahaa hati-aaraa.*(280-2)
The slanderer of the Saint is a brutal butcher.

*sant kaa nindak parmaysur maaraa.*(280-2)
The slanderer of the Saint is cursed by the Transcendent Lord.
...

asee je kar sache sikh han taan sanu unha de agya da palan karna chahida.. ate unnha ne jiven ek satguru de pehchan dasi hai je kar sansar vich aesa guru 
hunda hai (plz note carfully i m not referring to evry other perosn who calls himself GURU but only the one which our own GURU's refer to as puran satguru) taan sanu usda niradar nahin karna chahida....balki apne guruyan de agya de sadke unha da adar samman karna chahida... 

haan ede vich koyi shak nahin ke sikhan de sirf 10 guru ne... aur apne guruyan de ditti shiksha anusar chalna sadha sab da farz hai...
aur oh te aap akal purkh sann.. sadhi samjh te budh unhha de aage zero hai...
eslaye unhaa ne jo sanhu sanskar ditte hannn apan nu kide nahin bholane chahide...

bas eeni hi binti hai das de...
apas vich ladhna chad ke te guruyan de mat aage apni mat jhuka ke unna de bani nu jeevan vich utaro.

bhul chuk maaf karni
waheguru je ka khalsa waheguru je ke fateh.

GurSikh

(hopefully Surinder je es nu misinterpretation of gurubani mann ke delete nahin karnge... I hope she takes these words in the right spirit.)


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## simpy (Apr 25, 2007)

gursikh said:


> WAheguru je ka khalsa
> Waheguru je ke fateh.
> 
> ek gall hor sanjhi karna chahangi sadh sangat nal
> ...


 
*Gursikh Ji,*

*i must add-11Th GURU SAHIB SADE LIVING GURU HAIN, is te ta sehmat ho na, sari takraar di jarr eh hai *

*please follow all the posts made by Sahil Ji, and not just myself, a lot of other Gursikh Bhen Bhai have tried to tell him about it.*
*HE WANTS ALL OF US TO STOP BELIVEING THAT DHAN DHAN GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI IS OUR GURU. HE WANT US TO 'TRY' HIS GURU.*
*and over and above this- he keeps on distorting Gurbani intentionaly after explaining the same to him multiple times by multple people. and stuck on this issue that we have to see his guru's chamatkaar. HIS GURU WILL SHOW US GOD ONLY THEN WE CAN SEE GOD.*

*WHY IN THE WORLD A TRUE GURSIKH SHOULD STOP BELIVING IN DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI. NIRANKAAR ROOP BANI. and go after Sahil Ji. He can have what he has- nobody is stopping him from that. *

*HOW CAN HIS GURU BE BARAA THAN GURBANI....*
*WHICH TRUE GURU IS BIGGER THAN ANOTHER TRUE GURU...*
*AND ON TOP OF THAT FORCING OTHERS TO STOP THEIR FAITH AND TRYYYYY SOMETHING ELSE....*

*please explain....*

*forgive me please*

*Respected Gursikh Ji,*

*your words-*


> haan ede vich koyi shak nahin ke sikhan de sirf 10 guru ne..


 
*why did you say only 10, can you please explain.*
*BTW good thoughts you have. i tried my best to stay out of this Sahil Ji's Whole Shamole...*
*but he kept on calling me back time and over again, and it was very funny at times. wherever i used to post, he will drop a post there for me to come back and talk to him. this conversation is Sahil ji's own invitation.*

*your words-*


> hopefully Surinder je es nu misinterpretation of gurubani mann ke delete nahin karnge... I hope she takes these words in the right spirit


*it looks like you only look at surinder kaur cheema's mistakes and made a descision that this is what i am. it is ok, you can think wahtever about me.* 
*i have already apologised and promised that it will not happen again- please forgive me for one honest mistake.*
*that was purely an honest effort to discourage one of our brothers to do a sin/paap(misinterpreting Gurbani : he has shown us multiple times that he/she doesn't know Gurmukhi at all but trying to teach us Gurbani using many different translations from here and there, that too totally different from even the translations he himself was offering(so basically changing the Meaning of the words from GURMUKHI AND ENGLISH BOTH Languages-twisting everything around). when i humbly presented him a few lines from Siri Japji Sahib ji, he was lost, he could not read) he was repeadedly performing, not that i was enjoying doing any such thing. And sinse it is recorded as a rude behaviour, this will not be repeated again.* 

*forgive me please*


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## simpy (Apr 26, 2007)

* Respected Saadh Sangat Ji  ,*

*Respected dassan dass ji is telling his saathi Respected Sahil ji to keep serving and delivering the(his own percieved one) Divine Truth which is that True Gursikhs should stop believing that 'Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is their eternal Guru'. is this considered deliverance of the eternal truth?????*
*AND this message is in the same paragraph in which our respected sister/brother 'dassan daas' ji is delivering the message that Gurbani is DIVINE TRUTH.*
*SO RESPECTED 'dassan dass' Ji IS SAYING- GURBANI IS DIVINE TRUTH, BUT IT CANNOT BE CONSIDERED DIVINE TRUTH BECAUSE RESPECTED SAHIL JI SAYS SO. Wow!!!!*

*no wonder he/she says- it is beyond the comprehension of common beings. Balle Balle...*

*i think they are thinking that they are the 'Masters of Life' talking to the todlers and kindergarden goers 'small kids who have no clue what ALL is about and will believe what ever these Masters will say'.....*

*forgive me please*


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## SSMDCX (Apr 27, 2007)

Do You Really Understand What Gurbani Is Telling You? 

Are You Really Capable Of Correcting Others Interpretation Of Gurbani? 

Are You Really Serving The Truth?

Are You Really Delivering The Truth?

Are You At A Level That You Can Preach To Others? Are You A Puran Purakh? 

Do You Meditate? And How Long Do You Meditate? And Who Gave You This? How Did You Get There? Who Told You That Your Inner Vibrations Will Match With What? What Should You Be Doing And How Should You Be Doing?

It Looks Like You Have Really Achieved A Lot Of Learning? But How?

You Need To Answer These Questions For Yourself And Not For Us Or Anybody Else.

We Repeat Our Words Again For You - Gurbani Has Come From Sach Khand Gurbani Is The Language Of Sach Khand (not Literal Meaning), It Is The Mansarovar - Infinite Sea Of Braham Gyan, Every Shabad Of Bani Takes Us Deep In To The Mansarovar And Gives Us A Glimpse Of The Mansarovar- Nirgun Saroop Of Dhan Dhan Paar Braham Parmesar, It Is The Gyan Saroop Of Dhan Dhan Paar Braham Pita Parmesar Ji, And Can Be Understood By A Soul Who Has Reached That Stage - Sach Khand - It Can't Be Interpreted In Plain Human Languages - It Can Only Be Experienced Physically - Which Is Beyond Description - So How Can Anybody Teach Gurbani - It Can Be Earned, Experienced And Enjoyed - Which Can't Be Described - So That Is Why Everybody Is Living In Illusions, Delusions And Dubidha So Are The People Running This Phorum. 

Kood Sabh Sansaar - That Is Why We Said Everything Is Fake Except The Param Jyot Puran Parkash, Nirgun Saroop Dhan Dhan Paar Braham Pita Parmesar.

We Will See You At Some Point In Time And Space. 

Dassan Dass

This Is Our Last Post On This Forum, We Will Request The Moderator To Remove Our Name From The Members List.


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## sachchasoda (Apr 27, 2007)

FOR BRAHMGYANIS SEEING IS NOT LIMITED TO any TIME AND SPACE bro/sis Dassan Dass, it is just there EVER. well I like your name. And may I ask why you write WE inplace of I, are there multiple people invoved in writting the message or this is the way you normaly address yourself. OH I FORGOT YOU MENTIONED IN THE ABOVE POST IT WAS YOUR LAST POST. IN CASE YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND. 

And GURBANI IS DHUR KI BANI, TO READ AND UNDERSTAND THIS DHUR KI BANI OUR GURUS BROUGHT THE ALPHABET AND GRAMMER ON EARTH FROM DHUR AS WELL. SO NOT UNDERSTANDING THE GURBANI CAN NEVER BE A PROBLEM FOR ANYBODY WHO KNOWS GURMUKHI. THEY TOOK CARE OF THIS ISSUE MANY CENTURIES AGO- SO THAT NOBODY CAN MAKE A FOOL OF GURSIKHS. 

OUR GURU HAS GIVEN US A LOT OF QUESTIONS TO DISCUSS AND EXPLORE- WAY MANY MORE THAN WHAT BRO/SIS YOU ARE SUGGESTING, BEYOND YOUR COMPREHENTION. AND ALL GURSIKHS EXPLORE AND ANSWER THOSE FOR THEMSELVES AS WELL AS DISCUSS AND SHARE THOSE WITH SANGAT. EVERYTHING IS DIRECT-NO HIDDEN AGENDAS.

Sadh Sangat Ji bhul chuk maaf.


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## simpy (Apr 27, 2007)

* Respected Saadh Sangat Ji  , *

*When all will become kood then how about 'TIME and SPACE' what these entities will be doing there-as it will be nothing left to hold time and space*  



			
				SSMDCX said:
			
		

> We Will See You At Some Point In Time And Space.


 
*these lines are coming from (in my personal opinion) from a self Proclaimed group of Brahmgyanis. And if he/she is portraying himself as 'WE'- then does he/she even know what Dubidha is??????*




			
				SSMDCX said:
			
		

> It Can Only Be Experienced Physically - Which Is Beyond Description


 
*and wasn't he/she the same person who was saying for a Self Realized person everything is trigun te pare. does this person aware of what Trigun means.*



			
				SSMDCX said:
			
		

> The Person With Complete Self Realization Is Just Beyond Description - Such A Person Goes Beyond Trihu Gun Of Maya And Can't Be Understood By The Common Beings,


 

*SADH SANGAT JI, MOST IMPORTANTLY WE ARE DISCUSSING OVER HERE GURBANI, GURSIKH SIDHANT, GURSIKHI LIFESTYLE and all that. *
*OUR DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI IS SHOWING US THE PATH TO SACHKHAND. WE ALL DISCUSS THAT. NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT THE LIFE IN SACHKHAND-as there is no life there(LIFE IS GIVEN TO US TO FIND OUR REAL HOME)-it is ALL that is behind this visible ALL-nothing limited to TIME AND SPACE. ULTIMATE PEACE. *

*IT IS THIS ULTIMATE PEACE THAT IS BEYOND DISCRIPTION-NOT THE PATH TO THAT STATE OF BEING. *

*DHAN DHAN GURU SAHIBAAN CREATED GURMUKHI LIPI TO MAKE US UNDERSTAND THIS GURBANI SAADH SANGAT JI. *

*WHAT WAS THE NEED OF GURBANI IF IT WAS NOT UNDERSTANDABLE TO HUMAN.-ISN'T THIS FOR HUMANS???????*


*AND One Last thing- When we are on a public forum- everybody interpret their views. one does't like the other must not lead to step out of the battle field(created by yourself), at least this is what me neech think. if you have courage to denounce others (right or wrong in your/their view), then must be happily ready to accept the opposite view(right or wrong in your/their view) as well.........*


*humbly asking for forgiveness*


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## rosethorne (May 2, 2007)

Veer SSMDCXji, Sure you are and sahilji are genius with the same kind of confused brains. First thing you said,
Gurbani Has Come From Sach Khand Gurbani Is The Language Of Sach Khand (not Literal Meaning), It Is The Mansarovar - Infinite Sea Of Braham Gyan, Every Shabad Of Bani Takes Us Deep In To The Mansarovar And Gives Us A Glimpse Of The Mansarovar- Nirgun Saroop Of Dhan Dhan Paar Braham Parmesar, It Is The Gyan Saroop Of Dhan Dhan Paar Braham Pita Parmesar Ji, And Can Be Understood By A Soul Who Has Reached That Stage - Sach Khand - It Can't Be Interpreted In Plain Human Language.
As per your views KOOD SAB SANSAAR, If you are saying these words as yours then sure you need to have a deep introspection within you. In meditation one needs to be in centre of his soul, And you are claiming KOOD SAB SANSAAR. And one thing more I have to say that the Time and Space is right here for gursikhs but for you is not the right. That is also confusing when a person achieved as you, Dhan Dhan Paar Braham Pita Parmesar Ji, as you said but the truth is away from you, that the time and space never in one's powers but you acclaimed it. So you need to purify yourself, because Anger is in you, Hooame is in you, supermacy factor is in you, So how could with these Chors, you or sahilji can reach Dhan Dhan Paar Braham Pita Parmesar Ji. You yourself can be satisfy with these but Gursikhs are not. Gursikhs know the MAARG OF SACHKHAND, I need not to say anything on this. You very well said KOOD SAB SANSAAR, but one time see in yourself.
And I am sure that Modrators are sensible enough they will not ban you or sahilji from this forum, Because you both are showing your confusion as the truth. So kindly stay in this forum as we can see and show to other people also for your confusions, and give the replies if you have no fear factor, Parbraham pita parmeshwar has given nofear factor to gursikhs, prove yourself here. 
Hor ik gal ke, Tusi bade logaan nu badi vaar bewkoof bana sakde ho par sab nu har vaari nahi. Gurbani teaches us the real truth.Jadon vi Param Pita Parmeshwar de darshan agar ho jaan te oh jabaan jal jaandi hai jehdi kisi ahankaar ya ninda di gal kare, Kirpa usi te rehndi hai jehda Darshna taun baad sirf Prabhu di ustat kare, And what you and sahilji are doing here. Fake you are sure. As per Gurbani you are not on the first step even. 
Waheguru mainu maaf kare.


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## rosethorne (May 3, 2007)

Dear Gursikhs, One thing I have noticed in this topic that the moral of this topic is other than we replied. The main thing is that, some people are disrespecting Guru Saheb Ji but using Gurbani as their shield, very clever they are. Guru Nanak Sahib Ji transfered The Jyot to Guru Angad Dev Ji Maharaj and so on.. till Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj. And it is commonly knowledgeble that HIS Bani is not in Guru Granth Saheb Ji. So the main thing is that As 10th Jyot of Sikhi, HE is capable to form Panj Piaras and taken Amrit from them, It is also a universal fact for Gursikhs. When HE said to Panj Piaras that your next GURU is GURU GRANTH SAHEB JI, then what we are to go against it. So the one logic is there and present always that why it is not written in Guru Granth Saheb Ji about our next GURU. Because Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj Ji's Baani is not in Guru Granth Saheb Ji. Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj is the 10th Jyot of Guru Nanak Ji. There is no question on this. And as 10th Jyot, HE was capable to do what HE feel. HIS vision is so marvellous that sahilji or ssmdcxji can't get a sight of it. They are the people with dump brains. But they are claiming so Great Great things they achieved.
And if anybody ask for the knowledge of SGGS Maharaj Ji, then I have to say, Guru Granth Saheb kisey Ahankaari di jageer nahi, kise nirmal jihe gursikh di malkiat hai.When a person like Sahilji or ssmdcxji wanted to confuse Gursikhs is actualy disrespecting 10th Jyot and Panj Piare's formation.


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## babboo2007 (May 5, 2007)

dear rosethorne ji, ehee ta gal hai na, je enaa nu samajh aa jaave ta iss traa Guru Maharaaj di beadbee naa karan. Waheguru enaa nu sumatt bakhshe.


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## sahilmakkar1983 (May 16, 2007)

Vaheguru jee ka khalsa vaheguru jee ki fateh,

By vaheguru grace, now m done with my project stuff.. n now again back to continue the discussion..

BUT why r u saying that.. I want u to try my GURU.. Did i tell u the name of my GURU..

why are u creating confusion here...

I m saying that ... FOLLOW WHAT GURUBANI IS SAYING...

JO ASI KAR RAHE HA .. ODE NAAL GURUNANAK DEV JI  KHUSH NAHI HONDE.. ONA DA UPDESH DA PALAN KARO.. ONA DE DASE MARG TE CHALO

HA HON VAHEGURU DI SAHMATI NAAL TWADE QUESTIONA DA JAWAB VI AA JAANA HE..(CHETI HI)


VAISE... NICE TO SEE.. SOME  NOW SOME UNBIASED PEOPLE IN THIS TOPIC.
BUT WHY U R SAYING THAT THEY ARE SUPPORTING ME..

THEY ARE SAYING WHAT THEY FEEL....
ITS ALL VAHEGURU'S GRACE.... 
U BRING UR POINTS .... N WHAT U FEEL....
BUT TELL WHERE IT IS WRITTEN THAT SIKH SHOULD NOT GO FOR ANY GURU...
tellllllllllllllllllll
PLEASE .... SO THAT UR KNOWLEDGE CAN SPREAD TO OTHER BROTHERS N SISTERS TOO
PLEASE DONT RESERVE UR KNOWLEDGE...


DHAN DHAN SHRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE ... SABNU GUIDE KARAN GE.......... (TUSI SEVA KARO... MESSAGE PAHUCHAYO SAREYA TAK... KI KITHE LIKHYA........ GURU MANYO GRANTH)


YES I WILL BE PUTTING ALL THE ANSWERS TO UR QUESTIONS ONE BY ONE
RAJ KAREGA KHALSA
DAAS:
SAHIL



Surinder Kaur Cheema said:


> * Respected Saadh Sangat Ji  ,*
> 
> *Respected dassan dass ji is telling his saathi Respected Sahil ji to keep serving and delivering the(his own percieved one) Divine Truth which is that True Gursikhs should stop believing that 'Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is their eternal Guru'. is this considered deliverance of the eternal truth?????*
> *AND this message is in the same paragraph in which our respected sister/brother 'dassan daas' ji is delivering the message that Gurbani is DIVINE TRUTH.*
> ...


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## simpy (May 16, 2007)

*AwgXw BeI Akwl kI qbY clwXo pMQ [*
*sB isKn ko hukm hY gurU mwnXo gRMQ [*
*gurU gRMQ jI mwnXo pRgt gurW kI dyh [*
*jo pRB ko imlbo chY Koij Sbd my lyh [*
*Awzw Be Akwl kI qbY clwXo pMQ [*
*sB isK~n ko hukm hY guu{ mwnXo gRMQ [*
*guu{ gRMQ jI mwnXo pRgt gurW kI dyh [*
*jo pRB ko imlbo chY Koij Sbd my lyh [*
*Aagea bha-ee Akaal kee t.abaae chalayo Panth *
*Sabh Sikhan ko hukam haae Guroo manyo Granth *
*Guroo grant.h jee manyo pargat Guran' kee d.aeh *
*Jo prabh ko milbo chahaae khoj shabad. mae Laeh*​ 











*Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,*​ 
*SIKH DA GURU HAI- LIVING JOT "DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI" dassan patshahiaan di jagdi jot. TE EHO HAR SIKH DE HIRDE TE LIKHYAA HAI.*

*ik Sikh de vaaste Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Nirankaar, Guru, Sant, Saathi, Mahapurkh, Shabad, Akhkhar, Bani, Guide, Slahkaar, Sabh kuj Hai.............*

*SO ALL SIKHS ARE SUPPOSED TO READ, CONTEMPLATE AND FOLLOW GURBANI. *

*LIVE THE TRUTH TRUTHFULLY*

*humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness*

*please also read*
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-gurus/14356-sabh-sikhan-ko-hukam-hai-guru.html

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-...o-objections-raised-sahil-ji-4.html#post54143


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