# Gur Prasad



## singhisking101 (Feb 27, 2009)

In Gurbani I have come across the idea of Gur Parasd many times. I know that you need to have Gur Parsad to even think about God, just to do path you need Gur Parsad.  But one thing I have been wondering about is how do you earn Gur Parsad? I was wondering if anybody here could tell my some Gurbani references. 


Thanks! :happy:


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## BhagatSingh (Feb 27, 2009)

singhisking101 said:


> In Gurbani I have come across the idea of Gur Parasd many times. I know that you need to have Gur Parsad to even think about God, just to do path you need Gur Parsad. But one thing I have been wondering about is how do you earn Gur Parsad? I was wondering if anybody here could tell my some Gurbani references.
> 
> 
> Thanks! :happy:


How is it that you came to the conclusion that Gurprasad is needed to even think about God?


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## singhisking101 (Feb 27, 2009)

ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਤ ਲਿਖੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਮਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਲਿਵ ਮੰਡਲ ਮੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ पूरबि लिखत लिखे गुरु पाइआ मनि हरि लिव मंडल मंडा हे ॥१॥ Pūrab likẖaṯ likẖe gur pā▫i▫ā man har liv mandal mandā he. ||1|| By pre-ordained destiny, I have met with the Guru. I have entered into the realm of the Lord's Love. ||1|| (pg. 13)

You need Gur Parsad to do anything. That Jap Ji Sahib we did in the morning, etc. is all due to Gur Parsad. If the Guru did not want us to do paath then we by no means could not.


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 1, 2009)

singhisking101 said:


> ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਤ ਲਿਖੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਮਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਲਿਵ ਮੰਡਲ ਮੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ पूरबि लिखत लिखे गुरु पाइआ मनि हरि लिव मंडल मंडा हे ॥१॥ Pūrab likẖaṯ likẖe gur pā▫i▫ā man har liv mandal mandā he. ||1|| By pre-ordained destiny, I have met with the Guru. I have entered into the realm of the Lord's Love. ||1|| (pg. 13)
> 
> You need Gur Parsad to do anything. That Jap Ji Sahib we did in the morning, etc. is all due to Gur Parsad. If the Guru did not want us to do paath then we by no means could not.


I cannot how your statements followed the quote you presented. 

Your question was :


> But one thing I have been wondering about is how do you earn Gur Parsad?


You just answered your own question. According to the statements you just made, you don't need to do anything to earn Gurprasad. You get it when the Guru wants to you to get it.


I think we should first define exactly what the Gurus mean by Gurprasad. Out of context, Gurprasad would simply translate into Guru's offering so what does it mean in the context of SGGS?


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## singhisking101 (Mar 4, 2009)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by singhisking101
> ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਤ ਲਿਖੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਮਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਲਿਵ ਮੰਡਲ ਮੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ पूरबि लिखत लिखे गुरु पाइआ मनि हरि लिव मंडल मंडा हे ॥१॥ Pūrab likẖaṯ likẖe gur pā▫i▫ā man har liv mandal mandā he. ||1|| By pre-ordained destiny, I have met with the Guru. I have entered into the realm of the Lord's Love. ||1|| (pg. 13)
> 
> ...



Yes but when does the Guru want to Give you Gur Prasad.

BTW: sorry for the late reply


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 4, 2009)

singhisking101 said:


> Yes but when does the Guru want to Give you Gur Prasad.
> 
> BTW: sorry for the late reply


Continuing with your logic, wouldn't that be like predicting the future?
Since "You get it when the Guru wants to you to get it.", there is no way to tell when you are going to get it.


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## Tejwant Singh (Mar 4, 2009)

Gurprasad can only be received by following the teachings of SGGS, starting from Mool Manter which would give one the tools to breed goodness within and share with others like the scent of a flower which emits itself in all directions sans bias.

Isn't this the true essence of Gurprasad?

Just thinking aloud.....

Tejwant Singh


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## sadhu (Mar 4, 2009)

*Guru prasad showers, when you are ready for it*, because guru is already showering its blessings, you are the one who is not ready to recieve them, your reciever mode is off, you are not in a receptive mode. Guru is constantly flowing, you need to create a "valley" within you in order to let his river flow into you. Your heart needs to be empty. 
Your emptiness will be an invitation to your guru to flow his blessings into you. The vacuum created by your emptiness will be filled by gurprasad automatically, because it is already there, you need to be receptive for it. Just like a river flows automatically if you create a deep valley near it. You become a valley, an empty valley, and you will see the river of guru flowing into you with its life and energy.


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## Astroboy (Mar 5, 2009)

Gurparsad is like electricity. Gurbani has taught us how to harness and has given various methods to use it for our benefit. Now before I explain how Gurparsad is similar to electricity, let's ponder about our own nature. 

First of all, we must understand who we are and which part of ourselves receives these blessings. What is the subtleness of blessings!!! And how we go about intepreting these blessings on the outside of ourselves.

Anybody care to comment ?


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## singhisking101 (Mar 7, 2009)

sadhu said:


> *Guru prasad showers, when you are ready for it*, because guru is already showering its blessings, you are the one who is not ready to recieve them, your reciever mode is off, you are not in a receptive mode. Guru is constantly flowing, you need to create a "valley" within you in order to let his river flow into you. Your heart needs to be empty.
> Your emptiness will be an invitation to your guru to flow his blessings into you. The vacuum created by your emptiness will be filled by gurprasad automatically, because it is already there, you need to be receptive for it. Just like a river flows automatically if you create a deep valley near it. You become a valley, an empty valley, and you will see the river of guru flowing into you with its life and energy.



I see what ur saying. Guru keeps blessing us but we choose not to receive them. But what is our heart full of right now that is stopping the Gur Prasad from coming in?


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## sadhu (Mar 7, 2009)

*singhisking ji*

We are full of thousands of webs of thoughts, memories, desires and expectations that we carry within ourselves, that do not let the gurprasad in. This is what gurbani calls maya, maya is not outside, its the useless garbage that we are carrying within ourselves. This maya means an illiusion, a false projection of reality. We are twenty four hours surrounded by this false illusion, and all the pain, all the misery, all the dullness comes from this illusion, from this cluster of useless thoughts. This whole garbage has to be thrown away, to feel the gurprasad. Because we are full of this garbage, infact overflowing with it. *So how can the gurprasad enter our being? To make the gurprasad enter our beings we need an emtiness within ourselvess.*

By emptiness i mean a state of mind, where there is no garbage thoughts, where there is no cluster of past memories. A state of mind which has no assumptions or conclusions, neither any preconcieved notions. A state of mind which is utterly calm, silent, and collected. A state of mind which has dropped all desires and expectations. Not even a desire of gurprasad, because that too will become a barrier. Just a receptivity. AND this receptivity will be an invitation for gurprasad, the more empty you are the more it flows in you, the more deeper you are the more it enriches you, because then the gurprasad reaches your very roots, your subconscious, the deepest realms of your heart. 

So try to drop the useless as soon as possible. Otherwise you will miss the essential.

*I hope this will clear your doubts now.*


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 7, 2009)

sadhu said:


> By emptiness i mean a state of mind, where there is no garbage thoughts, where there is no cluster of past memories. A state of mind which has no assumptions or conclusions, neither any preconcieved notions. A state of mind which is utterly calm, silent, and collected. A state of mind which has dropped all desires and expectations. Not even a desire of gurprasad, because that too will become a barrier. Just a receptivity. AND this receptivity will be an invitation for gurprasad, the more empty you are the more it flows in you, the more deeper you are the more it enriches you, because then the gurprasad reaches your very roots, your subconscious, the deepest realms of your heart.


And what are you supposed to do with this useless state of mind?
Not to mention, this state of mind is self contradicting.

I think Gurbani tells us to turn down our extreme emotions so we can live a healthy lifestyle. One way to do that is to do meditation, volunteer work and honest living. 

Psycologists have found that when people eat ice-cream, a certain part of the brain is active. When they looked at the people who were watching others eat ice-cream the SAME part of the brain was active. They were going through the same emotions as the ones ho were eating the ice-cream.
What can you conclue from this? That the actions and emotions of others affect us. If we want to be happy, we have to make others happy as well! 
meditation will keep you "happy
selfless service will make others "happy"
honest living will keep both you and other "happy"


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## Harpreet_Singh_ (Mar 7, 2009)

sadhu said:


> *So how can the gurprasad enter our being? To make the gurprasad enter our beings we need an emtiness within ourselvess.*


 
Agreed, Sadhuji. In order for any person to climb this spiritual ladder, they have to first acknowledge that they do not how climb this ladder. Letting go of your previous concepts is a great place to start. 

Doing matha-tek is symbolic because you are emptying a filled vessel (your own thoughts) in order to be filled with the Guru's teachings and taking His support (tek).


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## sadhu (Mar 8, 2009)

*Bhagat singh ji*



> And what are you supposed to do with this useless state of mind?
> Not to mention, this state of mind is self contradicting.


 
You dont have to do anything in this state of mind. All doings have to be dropped. The very idea of "doing something" comes from the same old memories, that make you believe that you yourself are the doer. Your doing can only give you a false idea, that you are a doer, that you are so great, that you can make things happen. *The very idea of "doing" originates from your ego. And unless you drop your ego, unless you drop this idea that you are the doer, and unless you can just be a rose petal and drop your clingings so that you can just float in the breeze of gurprasad, you will miss the point. *

This state of mind is self contradicting, because when you drop all your thoughts and desires, you are actually dropping your whole mind. I called it a "state of mind" so that the people who read my post dont get confused. For example if i straight away say "drop the mind" it will be very confusing to understand. So to just to make some sense i use the word "state of mind", but this actually is the "state of no mind". 



> meditation will keep you "happy
> selfless service will make others "happy"


 
Its true, but remember* the essence of meditation is when you become utterly empty.* The whole purpose of meditation is to create a silence in your being, to create an emptiness in your being. Because the bliss happens in the silence, the music of the eternal happens in your silence, the river of the gurprasad will flow only if you are an empty valley. 

The selfless service makes others happy, its good. But the main purpose of selfless service is not to make others happy, because then again your ego will step in from the back door, it will say "look i can make others happy". *The true purpose of selfless service is to create a "selfless-ness" in your being,* to create a humbleness in your being, to help you to drop the burden of your ego. But we are clever, even in selfless service we dont drop our "selves" our "egos", on the contrary our ego bloats, it says "*I* am doing a great selfless service,*I* am making these people happy, "I" am very humble, "I" am serving these people". TO DROP THE CLINGING OF THIS* "I" *WAS THE MAIN MOTIVE OF SELFLESS SERVICE, BUT WE ALWAYS MISS THE POINT. 

If you are just doing selfless service to make others happy, then you are missing the whole point, moreover it is not at all a selfless service, it is social service. Because you are still clinging to your "self" to your "ego". 
*The happiness of others is just a by-product of selfless service. *
*The actual pupose of such a service is very subtle. *


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## Astroboy (Mar 8, 2009)

Quotes of Sadhu Ji



> You dont have to do anything in this state of mind. All doings have to be dropped. The very idea of "doing something" comes from the same old memories, that make you believe that you yourself are the doer. Your doing can only give you a false idea, that you are a doer, that you are so great, that you can make things happen. *The very idea of "doing" originates from your ego.*


*

*ਸ੍ਰਿਜੰਤ  ਰਤਨ  ਜਨਮ  ਚਤੁਰ  ਚੇਤਨਹ  ॥ 
स्रिजंत रतन जनम चतुर चेतनह ॥ 
Sirjaŉṯ raṯan janam cẖaṯur cẖeṯnah. 
He created the jewel of human life, with all its cleverness and intelligence. (Ang 1356)





> This state of mind is self contradicting, because when you drop all your thoughts and desires, you are actually dropping your whole mind. I called it a "state of mind" so that the people who read my post dont get confused. For example if i straight away say "drop the mind" it will be very confusing to understand.




ਗਿਆਨੁ  ਨ  ਗਲੀਈ  ਢੂਢੀਐ  ਕਥਨਾ  ਕਰੜਾ  ਸਾਰੁ  ॥ 
गिआनु न गलीई ढूढीऐ कथना करड़ा सारु ॥ 
Gi▫ān na galī▫ī dẖūdẖī▫ai kathnā karṛā sār. 
Wisdom cannot be found through mere words. To explain it is as hard as iron. (Ang 465)




> The selfless service makes others happy, its good. But the main purpose of selfless service is not to make others happy, because then again your ego will step in from the back door, it will say "look i can make others happy". *The true purpose of selfless service is to create a "selfless-ness" in your being,* to create a humbleness in your being, to help you to drop the burden of your ego. But we are clever, even in selfless service we dont drop our "selves" our "egos", on the contrary our ego bloats, it says "*I* am doing a great selfless service,*I* am making these people happy, "I" am very humble, "I" am serving these people". TO DROP THE CLINGING OF THIS* "I" *WAS THE MAIN MOTIVE OF SELFLESS SERVICE, BUT WE ALWAYS MISS THE POINT.





ਦੇ  ਦੇ  ਮੰਗਹਿ  ਸਹਸਾ  ਗੂਣਾ  ਸੋਭ  ਕਰੇ  ਸੰਸਾਰੁ  ॥ 
दे दे मंगहि सहसा गूणा सोभ करे संसारु ॥ 
Ḏe ḏe mangėh sahsā gūṇā sobẖ kare sansār. 
They give and give, but ask a thousand-fold more, and hope that the world will honor them. (Ang 466)


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## Astroboy (Mar 8, 2009)

singhisking101 said:


> You need Gur Parsad to do anything. That Jap Ji Sahib we did in the morning, etc. is all due to Gur Parsad. If the Guru did not want us to do paath then we by no means could not.



ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ  ਕਰੇ  ਭਗਤਿ  ਕੀਜੈ  ਬਿਨੁ  ਗੁਰ  ਭਗਤਿ  ਨ  ਹੋਈ  ॥ 
गुरमुखि क्रिपा करे भगति कीजै बिनु गुर भगति न होई ॥ 
Gurmukẖ kirpā kare bẖagaṯ kījai bin gur bẖagaṯ na ho▫ī. 
By His Grace one becomes Gurmukh, worshipping the Lord with devotion. Without the Guru there is no devotional worship. (Ang 32)


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## Tejwant Singh (Mar 8, 2009)

Sadhu ji,

Guru Fateh. 

You have talked about the emptiness in many different ways. It does sound beautiful  and impressive but for an  ignorant like me it sounds nothing but some utopic rhetoric based on some Santmat. 

I would like you to quote SGGS  to express  each of your thoughts that you are trying to say below. 

Please keep in mind Sikhi is a proactive way of life whose base is Miri- Piri, which means finding the tools from SGGS to cope with the conflicts of day to day life, not hiding oneself in some jungles. Sikhi is about living and finding Sehaj- Gurmat fulcrum in the maddening crowd of this world  surrounded with Maya, not living in a self created bubble or  walled inside a cocoon.


 1. Guru is constantly flowing, you need to create a "valley" within you in order to let his river flow into you.

 2. Your heart needs to be empty. 

 3. Your emptiness will be an invitation to your guru to flow his blessings into you.

4. The vacuum created by your emptiness will be filled by gurprasad automatically, because it is already there, you need to be receptive for it. Just like a river flows automatically if you create a deep valley near it. You become a valley, an empty valley, and you will see the river of guru flowing into you with its life and energy. 

5.You dont have to do anything in this state of mind. All doings have to be dropped. The very idea of "doing something" comes from the same old memories, that make you believe that you yourself are the doer. Your doing can only give you a false idea, that you are a doer, that you are so great, that you can make things happen. *The very idea of "doing" originates from your ego.* 

6.This state of mind is self contradicting, because when you drop all your thoughts and desires, you are actually dropping your whole mind. I called it a "state of mind" so that the people who read my post dont get confused. For example if i straight away say "drop the mind" it will be very confusing to understand. 

7. *So how can the gurprasad enter our being? To make the gurprasad enter our beings we need an emtiness within ourselvess.*

8.By emptiness i mean a state of mind, where there is no garbage thoughts, where there is no cluster of past memories. A state of mind which has no assumptions or conclusions, neither any preconcieved notions. A state of mind which is utterly calm, silent, and collected. A state of mind which has dropped all desires and expectations. Not even a desire of gurprasad, because that too will become a barrier. Just a receptivity.

Thanks and Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Astroboy (Mar 8, 2009)

Harpreet_Singh_ said:


> Agreed, Sadhuji. In order for any person to climb this spiritual ladder, they have to first acknowledge that they do not how climb this ladder. Letting go of your previous concepts is a great place to start.
> 
> Doing matha-tek is symbolic because you are emptying a filled vessel (your own thoughts) in order to be filled with the Guru's teachings and taking His support (tek).



*Ang 256*
ਸਲੋਕੁ  ॥ 
सलोकु ॥ 
Salok. 
Shalok: 

ਡੰਡਉਤਿ  ਬੰਦਨ  ਅਨਿਕ  ਬਾਰ  ਸਰਬ  ਕਲਾ  ਸਮਰਥ  ॥ 
डंडउति बंदन अनिक बार सरब कला समरथ ॥ 
Dand▫uṯ banḏan anik bār sarab kalā samrath. 
I bow down, and fall to the ground in humble adoration, countless times, to the All-powerful Lord, who possesses all powers. 

ਡੋਲਨ  ਤੇ  ਰਾਖਹੁ  ਪ੍ਰਭੂ  ਨਾਨਕ  ਦੇ  ਕਰਿ  ਹਥ  ॥੧॥ 
डोलन ते राखहु प्रभू नानक दे करि हथ ॥१॥ 
Dolan ṯe rākẖo parabẖū Nānak ḏe kar hath. ||1|| 
Please protect me, and save me from wandering, God. Reach out and give Nanak Your Hand. ||1||


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## Tejwant Singh (Mar 8, 2009)

After having morphed into a butterfly from a crawling caterpillar with the help of SGGS, Gur Prasad is to savour the nectar of each flower that the butterfly comes in  contact with, hence living daily by the words of Gurbani- Sabh Gobind hein, Gobind bin nahin koi.

Tejwant Singh


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## spnadmin (Mar 8, 2009)

Spread the nectar. Grow more flowers. :happy:


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 8, 2009)

sadhu said:


> Its true, but remember* the essence of meditation is when you become utterly empty.* The whole purpose of meditation is to create a silence in your being, to create an emptiness in your being. Because the bliss happens in the silence, the music of the eternal happens in your silence, the river of the gurprasad will flow only if you are an empty valley.


Then what? 
What happens after Gurprasad flows in?


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## singhisking101 (Mar 8, 2009)

BhagatSingh said:


> Then what?
> What happens after Gurprasad flows in?




then you can start walking the path of God


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 8, 2009)

singhisking101 said:


> then you can start walking the path of God


That question was directed to Sadhu's post.


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## Astroboy (Mar 9, 2009)

VaheguruSeekr said:


> After having morphed into a butterfly from a crawling caterpillar with the help of SGGS, *Gur Prasad is to savour the nectar* of each flower that the butterfly comes in  contact with, hence living daily by the words of Gurbani- Sabh Gobind hein, Gobind bin nahin koi.



ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ  ਰਸਨਾ  ਪੀਉ  ਪਿਆਰੀ  ॥ 
अम्रितु रसना पीउ पिआरी ॥ 
Amriṯ rasnā pī▫o pi▫ārī. 
O dear beloved tongue, drink in the Ambrosial Nectar. (Ang 180)



Quoted by Aad0002 Ji


> Spread the nectar. Grow more flowers.


ਬਨਸਪਤਿ  ਮਉਲੀ  ਫਲ  ਫੁਲ  ਪੇਡੇ  ॥ 
बनसपति मउली फल फुल पेडे ॥ 
Banaspaṯ ma▫ulī fal ful pede. 
All the vegetation will blossom forth for you, flowering in fruition; (Ang 180)


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## Astroboy (Mar 9, 2009)

VaheguruSeekr said:


> After having morphed into a butterfly from a crawling caterpillar with the help of SGGS, Gur Prasad is to savour the nectar of each flower that the butterfly comes in  contact with, *hence living daily by the words of Gurbani- Sabh Gobind hein, Gobind bin nahin koi.*
> 
> Tejwant Singh





ਸਭੁ  ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ  ਹੈ  ਸਭੁ  ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ  ਹੈ  ਗੋਬਿੰਦ  ਬਿਨੁ  ਨਹੀ  ਕੋਈ  ॥ 
सभु गोबिंदु है सभु गोबिंदु है गोबिंद बिनु नही कोई ॥ 
Sabẖ gobinḏ hai sabẖ gobinḏ hai gobinḏ bin nahī ko▫ī. 
God is everything, God is everything. Without God, there is nothing at all. (Ang 485)


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## sadhu (Mar 9, 2009)

Vaheguruseekr ji



> You have talked about the emptiness in many different ways. It does sound beautiful and impressive but for an ignorant like me it sounds nothing but some utopic rhetoric based on some Santmat.
> 
> I would like you to quote Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to express each of your thoughts that you are trying to say below.


 

I dont think it sounds impressive or beautiful to you, because i never gave the qoutes of gurugranth sahib. If i had given the quotes as proofs of what i am saying, then "may be" you could have find me convincing.
Moreover the eight points that you want me to explain, with help of qoutes of gurugranth sahib, all of them have one meaning. *They mean drop the mind and mind is the maya, its the some total of thoughts, desires, expectations and our memories, that are clouding our inner eyes. There are various ways to drop it, for example jap, meditation, kirtan, love etc . And once the mind is dropped the gurprasad starts flowing in your being.*

*Dont forget that gurbani itself is santmat. Its the vision of the saints. And vision of all the saints is one. There cannot be many santmats, there exists only one santmat, because all the saints live at one plane of consciousness, the jot is the same. *

You find the qoutes yourself in gurbani if you can, that match with my explanations, because whatever i have posted is my experience, i never read it anywhere. 
*You can do another thing that would be much more practical, you can try what i did, do simran, or kirtan or anything that can help you to drop the mind, and lets see if the gurprasad flows into your being. BECAUSE IT HAS HAPPENED TO MANY, I AM SURE IT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU ALSO. *

*Although i can give you the qoutes, but it wont make much of a difference.*
*I can give you the qoutes and you will have a proof of what i am saying, but i dont want to prove it to anyone. *
*My proofs will validate my experience, it wont make a difference in your being. *


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## sadhu (Mar 9, 2009)

Bhagat singh ji



> Then what?
> What happens after Gurprasad flows in?


 
*I wont tell you that. You will come to know when it flows into you. *


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## Tejwant Singh (Mar 9, 2009)

sadhu said:


> Vaheguruseekr ji
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Sadhu ji


Guru Fateh.

Thanks for proving my point that you have no idea what you are talking about. Your babble above once again shows that. 

As I mentioned before people who are proud of contradicting themselves as you do it quite gallantly, lack any kind of conviction, the essential trait to breed honesty and trust within, and also  people who hide behind thin veils pretending to be hiding,  they do not hide  from anyone else but from themselves.

Thanks for exposing yourself.

Good luck on your SANTMAT journey. As you may very well know that these so called Sants are famous as snake oil peddlers and it seems you love that.


Regards

Tejwant Singh


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## Astroboy (Mar 9, 2009)

sadhu said:


> Bhagat singh ji
> 
> 
> 
> *I wont tell you that. You will come to know when it flows into you. *



                                            ||  *349*  || 


 *No one can measure Your Worth, or describe You. * *keemat paa-ay na kahi-aa jaa-ay. * 
*Those who describe You, remain absorbed in You. ||1|| * *kahnai vaalay tayray rahay samaa-ay. ||1|| * 
 *O my Great Lord and Master of Unfathomable Depth, 
You are the Ocean of      Excellence. * *vaday mayray saahibaa gahir gambheeraa gunee gaheeraa. * 
 *No one knows the greatness of Your expanse. ||1||Pause|| * *ko-ee na jaanai tayraa kaytaa kayvad cheeraa. ||1|| rahaa-o. * 
 *All the contemplators met together and practiced contemplation; * *sabh surtee mil surat kamaa-ee. * 
 *all the appraisers met together and tried to appraise You. * *sabh keemat mil keemat paa-ee. * 
*The theologians, the meditators and the teachers of teachers * *gi-aanee Dhi-aanee gur gur haa-ee. * 
 *could not express even an iota of Your Greatness. ||2|| * *kahan na jaa-ee tayree til vadi-aa-ee. ||2|| * 
 *All Truth, all austerities, all goodness, * *sabh sat sabh tap sabh chang-aa-ee-aa. * 
 *and the greatness of the Siddhas, the beings of perfect spiritual powers     * *siDhaa purkhaa kee-aa vadi-aa-ee-aaN. * 
 *- without You, none has attained such spiritual powers. * *tuDh vin siDhee kinai na paa-ee-aa. * 
 *They are obtained by Your Grace; their flow cannot be blocked. ||3||     * *karam milai naahee thaak rahaa-ee-aa. ||3|| *


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## sadhu (Mar 9, 2009)

vaheguruseekr ji
I am sorry if i offended you once again, and i am greatful that you reply to my posts. 
I love your questions and the points that you mention in your posts. 



> Thanks for proving my point that you have no idea what you are talking about. Your babble above once again shows that.
> 
> As I mentioned before people who are proud of contradicting themselves as you do it quite gallantly, lack any kind of conviction which breeds honesty and trust within, and hide behind thin veils pretending to be hiding, not from anyone else but from themselves.
> 
> ...



I never hide anything, i post whatever i know, or whatever i experience. 
I dont know why you feel that i am hiding something from myself. 
Why would anyone hide anything from himself? And moreover it is practically impossible to hide anything from ones own self. 

*Why did you take so many pains to expose me? You could have just asked me, and i would have exposed myself.*
*Next time, just ask me, and i would expose myself, as i have nothing to hide. *

_BUT DO TRY TO DROP YOUR MIND, GURPRASAD WILL DEFINITELY FLOW IN YOU. _


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## Astroboy (Mar 9, 2009)

> As you may very well know that these so called Sants are famous as snake oil peddlers and it seems you love that.



||  *476*  ||                *Aasaa: * *aasaa. * 
 *They wear loin cloths, three and a half yards long, and triple-wound      sacred threads. * *gaj saadhay tai tai Dhotee-aa tihray paa-in tag. * 
*They have rosaries around their necks, and they carry glittering jugs in      their hands. * *galee jinHaa japmaalee-aa lotay hath nibag. * 
 *They are not called Saints of the Lord - they are thugs of Benares.      ||1|| * *o-ay har kay sant na aakhee-ahi baanaaras kay thag. ||1|| *


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## Astroboy (Mar 9, 2009)

ਸਾਜਨੁ  ਮੀਤੁ  ਸਖਾ  ਕਰਿ  ਏਕੁ  ॥ 
 साजनु मीतु सखा करि एकु ॥ 
 Sājan mīṯ sakẖā kar ek. 
 Make the One Lord your friend, intimate and companion. 

ਹਰਿ  ਹਰਿ  ਅਖਰ  ਮਨ  ਮਹਿ  ਲੇਖੁ  ॥੩॥ 
 हरि हरि अखर मन महि लेखु ॥३॥ 
 Har har akẖar man mėh lekẖ. ||3|| 
 Write in your mind the Word of the Lord, Har, Har. ||3|| 

ਰਵਿ  ਰਹਿਆ  ਸਰਬਤ  ਸੁਆਮੀ  ॥ 
 रवि रहिआ सरबत सुआमी ॥ 
 Rav rahi▫ā sarbaṯ su▫āmī. 
 The Lord Master is totally pervading everywhere. 

ਗੁਣ  ਗਾਵੈ  ਨਾਨਕੁ  ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ  ॥੪॥੬੨॥੧੩੧॥ 
 गुण गावै नानकु अंतरजामी ॥४॥६२॥१३१॥ 
 Guṇ gāvai Nānak anṯarjāmī. ||4||62||131|| 
Nanak sings the Praises of the Inner-knower, the Searcher of hearts. ||4||62||131|| (Ang 192)


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## Tejwant Singh (Mar 9, 2009)

Sadhu ji

Guru Fateh.

You write:




> vaheguruseekr ji
> I am sorry if i offended you once again, and i am greatful that you reply to my posts.


 

Once again you have overestimated your ability if I may say so. You seem to claim that you know more about others than about yourself. 

No, I  do not get offended. Period, although you pretended to claim to know me twice with the same claim.



> I never hide anything, i post whatever i know, or whatever i experience.
> I dont know why you feel that i am hiding something from myself.
> Why would anyone hide anything from himself? And moreover it is practically impossible to hide anything from ones own self.


 
Yes, you did. Contradictions are a way to hide and deny for which you did admit to. You did claim that you self-contradict yourself. Following is the definiton of contradiction:

*con·tra·dic·tion * 

  (k
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





n
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




tr
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




-d
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




k
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




sh
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




n) [SIZE=-2]KEY [/SIZE] 

[SIZE=-1]*NOUN:* [/SIZE]



<LI type=a>The act of contradicting. 
The state of being contradicted.

A denial.
Inconsistency; discrepancy.
Something that contains contradictory elements.
*



Why did you take so many pains to expose me? You could have just asked me, and i would have exposed myself.
Next time, just ask me, and i would expose myself, as i have nothing to hide. 

Click to expand...

 
*No one exposes anyone else. People do that to themselves and you have done a commendable  job  on it yourself. As I said, thin veils expose people no matter how much they try to hide themselves.




> _BUT DO TRY TO DROP YOUR MIND, GURPRASAD WILL DEFINITELY FLOW IN YOU. _





Sadhu ji,

As I mentioned in my last post that what you say sounds beautiful and impressive but just a utopic senselss rhetoric. 

Tejwant Singh


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## Astroboy (Mar 9, 2009)

> _BUT DO TRY TO DROP YOUR MIND, GURPRASAD WILL DEFINITELY FLOW IN YOU. _




*ਮਤਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਰਤਨ ਜਵਾਹਰ ਮਾਣਿਕ ਜੇ ਇਕ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਿਖ ਸੁਣੀ ॥
Within the mind are gems, jewels and rubies,
if you listen to the Guru's Teachings, even once.*

Does Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji tell us to drop our minds ?


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## Astroboy (Mar 9, 2009)

||  *631*  ||       *Sorat`h, Ninth Mehl: * *sorath mehlaa 9 * 
*One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: * *ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad. * 
 *O mind, love the Lord. * *ray man raam si-o kar pareet. *
*With your ears, hear the Glorious Praises of the Lord of the Universe,      and with your tongue, sing His song. ||1||Pause||
**sarvan gobind gun sun-o ar gaa-o rasnaa geet. ||1|| rahaa-o.


*From the above shabad, Guru Ji does not say to drop the mind. Instead Guru Ji says to use the mind in the right way.*
*


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 9, 2009)

I think vaheguruseeker ji's post got a bit harsh. lol :yes:
But I do agree with this...


> ...you have no idea what you are talking about. Your babble above once again shows that.


and this...


> As I mentioned in my last post that what you say sounds beautiful and impressive but just a utopic senselss rhetoric.


Sadhu ji, you have obviously not thought about what you are saying long enough or hard enough. go back and review it, keep in mind what your argument( the technical meaning of argument) is, and list all the premises, qualifiers, assumptions, etc. See if your argument is logically sound. 
After doing that you may post.
This will help clarify your post and will allow us to see where you are going with this.


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## sadhu (Mar 9, 2009)

waheguruseekr ji



> Yes, you did. Contradictions are a way to hide and deny for which you did admit to. You did claim that you self-contradict yourself.


If someone is contradicting himself, it does not mean that he is hiding something. If you want to hide something, you have to be consistent, you have to be in tune with your previous statements, your statements have to be complimenting each other. Because if you contradict, your hidden truth will come out. 
If someone seems to be contradictory, it just proves that the person is carefree, because he does not even care to contradict himself. And one needs to be very very careful to hide anything, because if you are not careful, simply cannot hide anything.
However if you still feel that i am hiding anything, then keep on chewing this. 



> No, I do not get offended. Period, although you pretended to claim to know me twice with the same claim.


 
Its good that you dont get offended, but your posts give me some other picture. 
And where did you get this idea, that i am CLAIMING to know you? *No vaheguruseekr ji, i dont know you. *


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## sadhu (Mar 9, 2009)

bhagat singh ji



> Sadhu ji, you have obviously not thought about what you are saying long enough or hard enough. go back and review it, keep in mind what your argument( the technical meaning of argument) is, and list all the premises, qualifiers, assumptions, etc. See if your argument is logically sound.
> After doing that you may post.
> This will help clarify your post and will allow us to see where you are going with this.


 
Yes i never thought about what i was saying. Because i dont need to. One needs to think if there are some doubts. 
Do you ever doubt that you are breathing? Do you ever question if you are alive or not? Do you ever think that may be you are wrong, that you should think again that weather you are living or not?
No, because it is your own experience, the experience in itself is the proof. The experience in itself is the validator. And I posted whatever i had experienced. 

And it was not an argument, in the first place. So forget about logics. 

My posts "are" and "will be" absolutely illogical and contradictory. 
But they will be helpful for the friends who are seeking.  

*I hope this clarifies my point and hope that you can see where i am going with this.*


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## sadhu (Mar 9, 2009)

naamjap ji just have a look

ਜਿਹਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਮਤਾ ਤਜੀ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਭਇਓ ਉਦਾਸੁ ॥ 
jihi maaeiaa mamathaa thajee sabh thae bhaeiou oudhaas ||
One who renounces Maya and possessiveness and is detached from everything
9 Salok Guru Teg Bahadur 

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੁਨੁ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਤਿਹ ਘਟਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥੧੮॥ 
kahu naanak sun rae manaa thih ghatt breham nivaas ||18||
- says Nanak, listen, mind: God abides in his heart. ||18||
9 Salok Guru Teg Bahadur 


ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਚੇਤਈ ਮਦਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੈ ਅੰਧੁ ॥ 
praanee kashhoo n chaethee madh maaeiaa kai andhh ||
The mortal does not remember the Lord, even for a moment; he is blinded by the wine of Maya.
16 Salok Guru Teg Bahadur 

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਭਜਨ ਪਰਤ ਤਾਹਿ ਜਮ ਫੰਧ ॥੨੬॥ 
kahu naanak bin har bhajan parath thaahi jam fandhh ||26||
Says Nanak, without meditating on the Lord, he is caught by the noose of Death. ||26||
17 Salok Guru Teg Bahadur 
ਮਨੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੈ ਰਮਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਨਿਕਸਤ ਨਾਹਿਨ ਮੀਤ ॥ 
*man maaeiaa mai ram rehiou nikasath naahin meeth ||*
*The mind is absorbed in Maya - it cannot escape it, my friend.*
*9 Salok **Guru Teg Bahadur*
ਨਾਨਕ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਜਿਉ ਛਾਡਿਤ ਨਾਹਿਨ ਭੀਤਿ ॥੩੭॥ 
*naanak moorath chithr jio shhaaddith naahin bheeth ||37||*
*Nanak, it is like a picture painted on the wall - it cannot leave it. ||37||*
*9 Salok **Guru Teg Bahadur*​ 

*The mind is so much absorbed in maya, that it is impossible to separate them. Infact mind itself is nothing but maya. You will have to drop it all together. You will have to drop the whole wall of maya and mind. *


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## sadhu (Mar 9, 2009)

*Maya = Mind* = *ego* = *Sum total of thoughts, desires, expectations, wordly attachments, greed, lust, piles of past memories *

*Mind is not the brain,although mind functions with the help of the brain. The seat of the mind is in the brain. Mind is subtle, and the brain is matter. The brain dies when the body dies, and the mind goes on with the soul, for the next birth, BECAUSE it has so many unfulfilled desires and expectations in it. And unless you drop it, your soul can never be at rest. It is constantly going to be in the cycle of births and deaths.*


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## spnadmin (Mar 9, 2009)

sadhu ji

Please explain why Guruji says:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ 
ik oankaar sathigur prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
 
ਰੂੜੋ ਮਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗੋ ਲੋੜੈ ॥ 
roorro man har rango lorrai ||
My *beautiful mind* longs for the Love of the Lord.
 
ਗਾਲੀ ਹਰਿ ਨੀਹੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
gaalee har neehu n hoe || rehaao ||
By mere words, the Lord's Love does not come. ||Pause||

ਹਉ ਢੂਢੇਦੀ ਦਰਸਨ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਬੀਥੀ ਬੀਥੀ ਪੇਖਾ ॥ 
ho dtoodtaedhee dharasan kaaran beethhee beethhee paekhaa ||
I have searched for the Blessed Vision of His Darshan, looking in each and every street.

ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਭਰਮੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ 
gur mil bharam gavaaeiaa hae ||1||
Meeting with the Guru, my doubts have been dispelled. ||1||
 
 ਇਹ ਬੁਧਿ ਪਾਈ ਮੈ ਸਾਧੂ ਕੰਨਹੁ ਲੇਖੁ ਲਿਖਿਓ ਧੁਰਿ ਮਾਥੈ ॥ 
eih budhh paaee mai saadhhoo kannahu laekh likhiou dhhur maathhai ||
I have obtained this wisdom from the Holy Saints, according to the pre-ordained destiny inscribed upon my forehead.

ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਨੈਣ ਅਲੋਇ ॥੨॥੧॥੧੮॥ 
eih bidhh naanak har nain aloe ||2||1||18||
In this way, Nanak has seen the Lord with his eyes. ||2||1||18||

Ang 715

Here are 4 more references to mind which are positively disposed toward the mind. The underlined give you the links to the entire shabad for each example.

Page1197  Line 6    Raag Sarang: Guru Nanak Dev

  ਜਬ ਕੀ ਰਾਮ ਰੰਗੀਲੈ ਰਾਤੀ ਰਾਮ ਜਪਤ ਮਨ ਧੀਰੇ ॥੨॥
  jab kee raam rangeelai raathee raam japath man dhheerae ||2||
   Since I came to be imbued with the Love of my Beautiful Lord, I meditate on the Lord, and my mind is encouraged. ||2||

Here Guruji explains how to encourage the mind. 

Page1255  Line 2     Raag Malaar: Guru Nanak Dev

  ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਹਾਇਆ ॥
  man bhaavai sabadh suhaaeiaa ||
   The Word of the Shabad is so very beautiful; it is pleasing to my mind.

In this one Guruji explains how to please the mind through the Shabad.


Page1362   Line 16    Raag Funhay: Guru Arjan Dev

  ਸੁੰਦਰ ਪੁਰਖ ਬਿਰਾਜਿਤ ਪੇਖਿ ਮਨੁ ਬੰਚਲਾ ॥
  sundhar purakh biraajith paekh man banchalaa ||
   Gazing upon the Beautiful Lord relaxing there, my mind was charmed and fascinated.

In this one it is a good thing that the Beautiful Lord charms and fascinates the mind. 
 

Page1425  Line 18    Raag Salok Vaaraan and Vadheek: Guru Arjan Dev

  ਜਿਨੀ ਸਚੁ ਅਰਾਧਿਆ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਫਬ ॥੧੪॥
  jinee sach araadhhiaa naanak man than fab ||14||
   Those who worship and adore the True Lord, O Nanak, their minds and bodies are beautiful. ||14||

In the last example, the mind and the body become beautiful through worship and adoration of Kartar Purakh.

Why would Kartar Purakh create something that can become even more beautiful than it is, if this mind were worthless. If one has no mind, there is no way that one can appreciate the greatness of the Creator of Everything (including your mind).


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## sadhu (Mar 10, 2009)

*aad0002 ji*


> Please explain why Guruji says:
> 
> ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
> ik oankaar sathigur prasaadh ||
> ...


 
The word "Mind" OR "Mann" has a different meaning when it comes in various places in gurugranth sahib. *It means "consciousness" in the gurbani. *
That is why it also comes 
""MANN TU JOT SARUP HAIN 
APNA MOOL PACHHAAN""

When i say "mind", i mean the "'maya'" by the gurbani language. 
*When i say mind then i dont mean consciousness*, because you cannot drop your consciousness. You yourself are the consciousness, so how can you drop it?  
When i say mind, i am talking about the useless garbage of maya, that has gathered on your consciousness. That has blinded away your consciousness. That has made your consciousness dull and insensitive to the gurprasad. 

So let me say it in a more clear way.
*Drop the maya from your consciousness, to feel the eternal bliss. *
*And remember, You were born with your pure consciousness, but you yourself gathered all the dust of maya over it. You gathered layers and layers of maya over it. You gathered layers and layers of wordly attachments over it, layers of desires and expectations, layers of lust, layers of anger, layers of greed, layers of your past memories.  *

*You will have to clean all this if you want the god to enter your home of consciousness. You will have to throw all this garbage out, if you want the gurprasad to enter your being. And you have nothing else in your consciousness except this garbage, so when you drop it, you become utterly empty. And in this very emptiness the gurprasad flows in.*
* 
ang 1427
ਜਿਹਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਮਤਾ ਤਜੀ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਭਇਓ ਉਦਾਸੁ ॥ 

jihi maaeiaa mamathaa thajee sabh thae bhaeiou oudhaas ||
One who renounces Maya and possessiveness and is detached from everything
 9 Salok Guru Teg Bahadur  

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੁਨੁ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਤਿਹ ਘਟਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥੧੮॥ 
kahu naanak sun rae manaa thih ghatt breham nivaas ||18||
- says Nanak, listen, mind: God abides in his heart. ||18||
 9 Salok Guru Teg Bahadur
*


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## Astroboy (Mar 10, 2009)

> *The mind is so much absorbed in maya, that it is impossible to separate them. Infact mind itself is nothing but maya. You will have to drop it all together. You will have to drop the whole wall of maya and mind. *


The uniqueness of the teachings of SGGS is that all faiths can find something that enlightens their soul. for e.g. a Buddhist will find this verse of great importance to him/her.

||  *1169*  ||
*Basant, Third Mehl: * *basant mehlaa 3 teejaa. * 
*A person may take off his clothes and be naked. * *bastar utaar digambar hog. * 
*What Yoga does he practice by having 
matted and tangled hair? * *jataaDhaar ki-aa kamaavai jog. * 
*If the mind is not pure, what use is it to hold the breath 
at the Tenth      Gate? * *man nirmal nahee dasvai du-aar. * 
*The fool wanders and wanders, 
entering the cycle of reincarnation again      and again. ||1|| * *bharam bharam aavai moorhHaa vaaro vaar. ||1|| *


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## Harpreet_Singh_ (Mar 10, 2009)

From what I have read:

Sadhuji has had some wonderful spiritual experiences. However, his reference of these experiences to Gurbani is weak. Nevertheless, he speaks from his experiences which are his truth.


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## Astroboy (Mar 10, 2009)

> *You gathered layers and layers of wordly attachments over it, layers of desires and expectations, layers of lust, layers of anger, layers of greed, layers of your past memories. *
> 
> *You will have to clean all this if you want the god to enter your home of consciousness.*



||  *40*  ||           *O my Beloved, I live by meditating on      Your Name. * *mayray pareetamaa ha-o jeevaa naam      Dhi-aa-ay. * 
 *Without Your Name, my life does not      even exist. 
My True Guru has implanted the Naam within me. ||1||Pause||     * *bin naavai jeevan naa thee-ai mayray      satgur naam drirh-aa-ay. ||1|| rahaa-o. * 
 *The Naam is a Priceless Jewel; it is      with the Perfect True Guru. * *naam amolak ratan hai pooray satgur      paas. * 
 *When one is enjoined to serve the True      Guru,
 He brings out this Jewel and bestows this enlightenment. * *satgur sayvai lagi-aa kadh ratan dayvai      pargaas. * 
 *Blessed, and most fortunate of the very      fortunate, 
are those who come to meet the Guru. ||2|| * *Dhan vadbhaagee vad bhaagee-aa jo aa-ay      milay gur paas. ||2|| * 
 *Those who have not met the Primal      Being, 
the True Guru, are most unfortunate, and are subject to death. * *jinaa satgur purakh na bhayti-o say      bhaagheen vas kaal. * 
 *They wander in reincarnation over and      over again, 
as the most disgusting maggots in manure. * *o-ay fir fir jon bhavaa-ee-ah vich      vistaa kar vikraal. * 
 *Do not meet with, or even approach      those people,
 whose hearts are filled with horrible anger. ||3|| * *onaa paas du-aas na bhitee-ai jin antar      kroDh chandaal. ||3|| * 
*The True Guru, the Primal Being, is the      Pool 
of Ambrosial Nectar. The very fortunate ones
 come to bathe in it.     * *satgur purakh amrit sar vadbhaagee      naaveh aa-ay. * 
 *The filth of many incarnations is      washed away, and 
the Immaculate Naam is implanted within. * *un janam janam kee mail utrai nirmal      naam drirh-aa-ay. * 
 *Servant Nanak has obtained the most      exalted state,
 lovingly attuned to the True Guru. ||4||2||66|| * *jan naanak utam pad paa-i-aa satgur kee      liv laa-ay. ||4||2||66|| *


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## sadhu (Mar 10, 2009)

Harpreet singh ji

I agree with you, my references are definitely very weak. 
And many of my friends get offended, as i have not given any references. 
I feel most of the times that i have offended people instead of making them enthusiastic about the spiritual path. 

May be my posts can be of some help for you. But for most, my posts have not been a cause of irritation.


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## Astroboy (Mar 10, 2009)

> I feel most of the times that i have offended people instead of making them enthusiastic about the spiritual path.


Sadhu Ji,

Not true. We're all learners (sikhs) who learn from the wisdom of our creator, Lord. God. 
Sabh Gobind Hai, ..............,    ....ek noor te sabh jag upjiya.......,  
*He dwells in each and every heart, pervading everywhere; He is the      nearest of the near. 
* *ghat ghat vaasee sarab nivaasee nayrai hee tay nayraa.  *||  *784*  ||


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## Astroboy (Mar 10, 2009)

||  *157*  ||

 *If I were to become a cuckoo, living in      a mango tree, 
I would still contemplate the Word of the Shabad.
* *kokil hovaa amb basaa sahj sabad      beechaar. * 

*I would still meet my Lord and Master,      with intuitive ease;
 the Darshan, the Blessed Vision of His Form,
 is      incomparably beautiful. ||2||
**sahj subhaa-ay mayraa saho milai darsan      roop apaar. ||2|| * 

 *If I were to become a fish, living in      the water, 
I would still remember the Lord, who watches over 
all beings and      creatures. * *machhulee hovaa jal basaa jee-a jant      sabh saar. * 

 *My Husband Lord dwells on this shore,      and on the shore beyond;
 I would still meet Him, and hug Him close in my      embrace. ||3||
* *urvaar paar mayraa saho vasai ha-o      mila-ugee baah pasaar. ||3|| * 

 *If I were to become a snake, living in      the ground, the Shabad 
would still dwell in my mind, and my fears would be      dispelled.
* *naagan hovaa Dhar vasaa sabad vasai bha-o      jaa-ay. * 

 *O Nanak, they are forever the happy      soul-brides, 
whose light merges into His Light. ||4||2||19||
* *naanak sadaa sohaaganee jin jotee jot      samaa-ay. ||4||2||19|| *


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## pk70 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Sadhu ji*
*You are saying the right thing but got it mixed with mind. Keep the mind but keep its command in your power and do not acknowledge all stuff layered in the mind over time while listening to Guru. This way Guru guidance is coated on other stuff and mind remains perceptive to what Guru says and remains centered at Guru and Guru parsad occurs. Now in the mind or consciousness there is only one thing, that is Guru Advice rest becomes insignificant. Then progression starts. If this awareness is not kept, the old tuff under the coating of Guru Advice, dusts off Guru advice-coating and the mind becomes again perceptive to previous stuff. That is why it is very hard journey, the one who has taken it successfully, for sure realizes Him. That is why it is stressed*
*ਦਾਨਸਬੰਦੁ ਸੋਈ ਦਿਲਿ ਧੋਵੈ **॥: Daanasaband soee dil dhovai: One who cleanses his own mind is wise (sggs 662).*
*What is this that needs to be cleaned? It is all the stuff that creates duality and takes away stillness of mind.*
*For Gurparsad, mind’s Ego must go; its commanding power must cease in other words*
*ਸਤਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਗਾਖੜੀ ਸਿਰੁ ਦੀਜੈ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਇ **॥: Satgur kee sevaa gaakharree sir deejai aap gavaai: It is very difficult to serve the Satguru (why? Because to do so, one must) surrender his head (ego or Haume) and give up his selfhood (sggs 27).*
*Otherwise mind is compared with a mouse living in a hole with so much proud*
*ਰੇ ਮਨ ਮੂਸ ਬਿਲਾ ਮਹਿ ਗਰਬਤ ਕਰਤਬ ਕਰਤ ਮਹਾਂ ਮੁਘਨਾਂ **॥: Re mann moos bilaa mahi garabat karatab karat mahaan mughanaan: O mind, you are a mouse, living in the mouse hole of the body; you are so proud of yourself, but you act like an absolute fool (sggs 1387).*

*Therefore*
*ਊਂਦਰ ਦੂੰਦਰ ਪਾਸਿ ਧਰੀਜੈ **॥: Oonadar doondar paasi dhareejai: Silence the mouse (of false ego) scurrying around within you (sggs 905*).
*All the trash you mentioned that causes duality must go*
*ਅੰਦਰਹੁ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਦੂਜੀ ਖੋਈ ਸੋ ਜਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗਾ **॥: Andarahu duramat doojee khoee so jan har liv laagaa: One who eliminates evil-mindedness and duality from within himself, that humble being lovingly focuses his mind on the Lord (sggs 768).*
*Keep the mind but focus its attention at Guru who will enable it to be focused on HIM.  Thanks.*


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## spnadmin (Mar 10, 2009)

ssadhu ji

You see in this that you have quoted:


*ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੁਨੁ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਤਿਹ ਘਟਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥੧੮॥ 
kahu naanak sun rae manaa thih ghatt breham nivaas ||18||
- says Nanak, listen, mind: God abides in his heart. ||18||
*
If god abides in the heart, still the mind must perceive it there. Would Nanak say Listen Mind if the mind were incapable of discernment?


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## Tejwant Singh (Mar 10, 2009)

Sadhu ji

Guru Fateh.

As you refused to give any verses from the SGGS to prove your 'dropping mind' thingy. I have a suggestion to make.

Study Anand Sahib, all of it and you will find some clarity in your thoughts about mind because what I have found in your repeated comments about emptiness is quite nebulous, nothing nitid. 

Anand- The Bliss is the true Gur Prasad and Guru Amardas ji gives us the tools how to attain it. We can not drop the tools, we have to pick them up and learn how to use them. Effort does not take place while letting mind empty and let it sit idol.

If we let the engine of the car running and let it sit idol we get no where and pollute the surrounding [SIZE=-1]environment.[/SIZE]

Take Anand Sahib as your steering wheel for the car called Mind. One has to learn how to [SIZE=-1]maneuver [/SIZE]the Mind(Car) in the chaotic traffic called life.

 Empty mind means a car without the engine which can not even start, hence impossible to be driven.


Good luck in your journey.


Tejwant Singh


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## Harpreet_Singh_ (Mar 10, 2009)

Just a note: Anand Sahib is said to give the devotee Jivan-mukti (liberation while alive).


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## sadhu (Mar 11, 2009)

*vaheguruseekr ji*
Just a suggestion for you.
i dont think you read my posts attentively, or you are too busy finding flaws in them.

Next time i post something, please read it properly, and then come up with some of your great ideas.
*
Debate the issues, not the person. Thank you. *(aad0002)


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## Astroboy (Mar 11, 2009)

sadhu said:


> *vaheguruseekr ji*
> Just a suggestion for you.
> i dont think you read my posts attentively, or you are too busy finding flaws in them.
> Next time i post something, please read it properly, and then come up with some of your great ideas.



*Obstacles are what you see, when you take your eyes off your goal. The following shabad on Ang 922 explains:*

ਏ  ਨੇਤ੍ਰਹੁ  ਮੇਰਿਹੋ  ਹਰਿ  ਤੁਮ  ਮਹਿ  ਜੋਤਿ  ਧਰੀ  ਹਰਿ  ਬਿਨੁ  ਅਵਰੁ  ਨ  ਦੇਖਹੁ  ਕੋਈ  ॥ 
ए नेत्रहु मेरिहो हरि तुम महि जोति धरी हरि बिनु अवरु न देखहु कोई ॥ 
Ė neṯarahu meriho har ṯum mėh joṯ ḏẖarī har bin avar na ḏekẖhu ko▫ī. 
O my eyes, the Lord has infused His Light into you; do not look upon any other than the Lord. 

ਹਰਿ  ਬਿਨੁ  ਅਵਰੁ  ਨ  ਦੇਖਹੁ  ਕੋਈ  ਨਦਰੀ  ਹਰਿ  ਨਿਹਾਲਿਆ  ॥ 
हरि बिनु अवरु न देखहु कोई नदरी हरि निहालिआ ॥ 
Har bin avar na ḏekẖhu ko▫ī naḏrī har nihāli▫ā. 
Do not look upon any other than the Lord; the Lord alone is worthy of beholding. 

ਏਹੁ  ਵਿਸੁ  ਸੰਸਾਰੁ  ਤੁਮ  ਦੇਖਦੇ  ਏਹੁ  ਹਰਿ  ਕਾ  ਰੂਪੁ  ਹੈ  ਹਰਿ  ਰੂਪੁ  ਨਦਰੀ  ਆਇਆ  ॥ 
एहु विसु संसारु तुम देखदे एहु हरि का रूपु है हरि रूपु नदरी आइआ ॥ 
Ėhu vis sansār ṯum ḏekẖ▫ḏe ehu har kā rūp hai har rūp naḏrī ā▫i▫ā. 
This whole world which you see is the image of the Lord; only the image of the Lord is seen. 

ਗੁਰ  ਪਰਸਾਦੀ  ਬੁਝਿਆ  ਜਾ  ਵੇਖਾ  ਹਰਿ  ਇਕੁ  ਹੈ  ਹਰਿ  ਬਿਨੁ  ਅਵਰੁ  ਨ  ਕੋਈ  ॥ 
गुर परसादी बुझिआ जा वेखा हरि इकु है हरि बिनु अवरु न कोई ॥ 
Gur parsādī bujẖi▫ā jā vekẖā har ik hai har bin avar na ko▫ī. 
By Guru's Grace, I understand, and I see only the One Lord; there is no one except the Lord. 

ਕਹੈ  ਨਾਨਕੁ  ਏਹਿ  ਨੇਤ੍ਰ  ਅੰਧ  ਸੇ  ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ  ਮਿਲਿਐ  ਦਿਬ  ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ  ਹੋਈ  ॥੩੬॥ 
कहै नानकु एहि नेत्र अंध से सतिगुरि मिलिऐ दिब द्रिसटि होई ॥३६॥ 
Kahai Nānak ehi neṯar anḏẖ se saṯgur mili▫ai ḏib ḏarisat ho▫ī. ||36|| 
Says Nanak, these eyes were blind; but meeting the True Guru, they became all-seeing. ||36||


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## Astroboy (Mar 11, 2009)

Gautama Buddha taught us the middle path.

See what Guru Ji teaches us:

Ang 272

ਅਸਟਪਦੀ  ॥ 
असटपदी ॥ 
Asatpaḏī. 
Ashtapadee: 

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ  ਗਿਆਨੀ  ਸਦਾ  ਨਿਰਲੇਪ  ॥ 
ब्रहम गिआनी सदा निरलेप ॥ 
Barahm gi▫ānī saḏā nirlep. 
The God-conscious being is always unattached, 

ਜੈਸੇ  ਜਲ  ਮਹਿ  ਕਮਲ  ਅਲੇਪ  ॥ 
जैसे जल महि कमल अलेप ॥ 
Jaise jal mėh kamal alep. 
as the lotus in the water remains detached. 

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ  ਗਿਆਨੀ  ਸਦਾ  ਨਿਰਦੋਖ  ॥ 
ब्रहम गिआनी सदा निरदोख ॥ 
Barahm gi▫ānī saḏā nirḏokẖ. 
The God-conscious being is always unstained, 

ਜੈਸੇ  ਸੂਰੁ  ਸਰਬ  ਕਉ  ਸੋਖ  ॥ 
जैसे सूरु सरब कउ सोख ॥ 
Jaise sūr sarab ka▫o sokẖ. 
like the sun, which gives its comfort and warmth to all. 

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ  ਗਿਆਨੀ  ਕੈ  ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ  ਸਮਾਨਿ  ॥ 
ब्रहम गिआनी कै द्रिसटि समानि ॥ 
Barahm gi▫ānī kai ḏarisat samān. 
The God-conscious being looks upon all alike, 

ਜੈਸੇ  ਰਾਜ  ਰੰਕ  ਕਉ  ਲਾਗੈ  ਤੁਲਿ  ਪਵਾਨ  ॥ 
जैसे राज रंक कउ लागै तुलि पवान ॥ 
Jaise rāj rank ka▫o lāgai ṯul pavān. 
like the wind, which blows equally upon the king and the poor beggar. 

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ  ਗਿਆਨੀ  ਕੈ  ਧੀਰਜੁ  ਏਕ  ॥ 
ब्रहम गिआनी कै धीरजु एक ॥ 
Barahm gi▫ānī kai ḏẖīraj ek. 
The God-conscious being has a steady patience


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## pk70 (Mar 11, 2009)

namjap said:


> *Obstacles are what you see, when you take your eyes off your goal. The following shabad on Ang 922 explains:*
> 
> ਏ  ਨੇਤ੍ਰਹੁ  ਮੇਰਿਹੋ  ਹਰਿ  ਤੁਮ  ਮਹਿ  ਜੋਤਿ  ਧਰੀ  ਹਰਿ  ਬਿਨੁ  ਅਵਰੁ  ਨ  ਦੇਖਹੁ  ਕੋਈ  ॥
> ए नेत्रहु मेरिहो हरि तुम महि जोति धरी हरि बिनु अवरु न देखहु कोई ॥
> ...



*namjap Ji
A bundle of thanks for posting the above Guru Bachan.
I am still struggling to have such eyes.................
*


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## susan (Mar 11, 2009)

Gurfateh Ji,

Personally I was full of myself. Thinking,"yes I believe in God and that should be enough". But I have reallized a whole new look at life since I have accepted Waheguru's Gur Prasad or Hukam if you will. But you can't force it. It has to come easily and with true devotion. These are only my thoughts and beliefs,if I have made any offensive comments please forgive me. 

May Waheguru bless one and all.


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## susan (Mar 11, 2009)

Gurfateh Ji

Personally my heart was full of myself, I believed that I believe in God and that should be enough. But NO,now I realize one must  have an unconditional love for the Almighty. We all have it within us. it will prosper when it's your time. Don't force it,it has to come naturally. Just like any other relationship in life,you cannot force yourself to love. When you feel this it is true Bliss. Good luck to you and may God bless you with his Naam.
If I have offended anyone with my personal thoughs please forgive me,this is the first time I have replied to any thread.


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## 21khalsa13 (Mar 11, 2009)

sat shri akaal bhenoo te veero,

a great thread - thank you for all your great insights.

may i be so aggrogant as to offer my two pence worth.

well this seems to have become a thread of two extremes - the battle between logic (sometimes refered to as mind - but basically it is subjective experience - using the left analytical brain) and creative experience(right brain). 

what i see here is that you are both right! 

yes we need our minds but not so nuch as we give them credit for at the moment
a very poor analogy but here goes.

imagine a dog, the body of the dog is concioussness and the tail is the mind
the dog should wag the tail
right?

however due to the western thinking process the tail has started to wag the dog
ie. the mind is determine what the concioussness should experience. or that the mind is so full of thoughts (good and bad) that the true essence can't be seen - like wearing sunglasses and it seems the world is dim.

maybe the answer is simple. maybe if we can clear our minds and drop our thoughts it is possible to get past our preconditioned thoughts, past our karmic response to life (reactive patterns) and gur prasad flows in. the gurprasad gives our experience and our hukum and we use our minds ( as tools) to follow the hukum in our daily lives.

bul chukk maaf


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## 21khalsa13 (Mar 11, 2009)

p.s. could this be the essence of miri-piri
using both the right and left brain together and getting a whole experience

i hear the word 'HOLY' comes from the latin _'to be whole'_


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## 21khalsa13 (Mar 11, 2009)

SORAT’H, NINTH MEHL:​ 
That man, who in the midst of pain, does not feel pain, who is not affected by pleasure, affection or fear, and who looks alike upon gold and dust; || 1 || Pause || Who is not swayed by either slander or praise, nor affected by greed, attachment or pride; who remains unaffected by joy and sorrow, honor and dishonor; || 1 || who renounces all hopes and desires and remains desireless in the world; who is not touched by sexual desire or anger — within his heart, God dwells. || 2 || That man, blessed by Guru’s Grace, understands this way. O Nanak, he merges with the Lord of the Universe, like water with water. || 3 || 11 || ang 633


drop everything - all judgements, likes, dislikes, thoughts, joys, sorrows. 
there God dwells - that man is blessed by Guru;s grace


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## 21khalsa13 (Mar 11, 2009)

SORAT’H, NINTH MEHL:​ 
That man, who in the midst of pain, does not feel pain, who is not affected by pleasure, affection or fear, and who looks alike upon gold and dust; || 1 || Pause || Who is not swayed by either slander or praise, nor affected by greed, attachment or pride; who remains unaffected by joy and sorrow, honor and dishonor; || 1 || who renounces all hopes and desires and remains desireless in the world; who is not touched by sexual desire or anger — within his heart, God dwells. || 2 || That man, blessed by Guru’s Grace, understands this way. O Nanak, he merges with the Lord of the Universe, like water with water. || 3 || 11 || ang 633

drop everything? all thoughts, hopes, desires, likes, dislikes, joy, sorrow,
guru je even says we should not woory about our family even - as none if it can be taken with you
does sound like a contridication but when viewed in the eyes of of miri piri philosophy it actually makes sense - the right and left brain thinking are actually two sides of the same coin

spirituality and creativity

to connect to spirit you have to 'drop everything' - try it you will experience
to live your life in this world you need your thoughts to create - family, work, health etc... the key is not to get hung up on these ideals as they are only transisient and temporary. there is only one reality and no matter what we are doing - what we are thinking we should always connect with that one reality 
ie. start from the spirit and work outwards. then use mind and thoughts to create our temporary reality.
it is just an illusion anyway - so don't get wrapped up in the illussion. no matter what thoughts you think it is still an illusion - reality is life, god, and that remains the same no matter what your personal thoughts on the matter are. the other day it blew my mind when i watched a programme on the galaxy

it showed that all the stars in teh sky are suns around which there are planets and there are millions and millions of suns in this galaxy - wow!

then it went on to say there are as many galaxies in the universe as there are stars in this galaxy, millions maybe billions.

and then there is possibly millions and millions of universes too!!

wow!! truly amazing
waheguru

it puts our tiny little lives on this planet into perspective - are the things we think about all day long really of any consequence? do we really need to hold all these thoughts, opinions and rights and wrongs in our heads - no - so drop them merge with god!

:happy:

ps. i know this is easier said than done. very easy to say - very hard to do - but do it anyway
it becomes a moment to moment thing.
 every moment ask yourself a question - are my thoughts being used to create good or bad?
are my thoughts from the same stale pool of thinking or from the fresh river of life?

live this moment to moment - please tell  me what happens...


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## Astroboy (Mar 11, 2009)

21khalsa13 said:


> drop everything - all judgements, likes, dislikes, thoughts, joys, sorrows.
> there God dwells - that man is blessed by Guru;s grace



The thought I thought is not the thought 
I thought I thought.

Khalsa Ji,

ਗੁਰਸਿਖ  ਮੀਤ  ਚਲਹੁ  ਗੁਰ  ਚਾਲੀ  ॥ 
गुरसिख मीत चलहु गुर चाली ॥ 
Gursikẖ mīṯ cẖalhu gur cẖālī. 
O Sikhs of the Guru, O friends, walk on the Guru's Path. 

ਜੋ  ਗੁਰੁ  ਕਹੈ  ਸੋਈ  ਭਲ  ਮਾਨਹੁ  ਹਰਿ  ਹਰਿ  ਕਥਾ  ਨਿਰਾਲੀ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥ 
जो गुरु कहै सोई भल मानहु हरि हरि कथा निराली ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ 
Jo gur kahai so▫ī bẖal mānhu har har kathā nirālī. ||1|| rahā▫o. 
Whatever the Guru says, accept that as good; the sermon of the Lord, Har, Har, is unique and wonderful. ||1||Pause|| 

Ang 667


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## Harpreet_Singh_ (Mar 11, 2009)

glI jogu n hoeI ]
galee jog n hoee ||
_By mere words, Yoga is not attained._
eyk idRsit kir smsir jwxY jogI khIAY soeI ]1] rhwau ]
eaek dhrisatt kar samasar jaanai jogee keheeai soee ||1|| rehaao ||
_One who looks upon all with a single eye, and knows them to be one and the same - he alone is known as a Yogi. ||1||Pause||_


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## BhagatSingh (Mar 13, 2009)

21khalsa13 said:


> p.s. could this be the essence of miri-piri
> using both the right and left brain together and getting a whole experience
> 
> i hear the word 'HOLY' comes from the latin _'to be whole'_


ooh interesting. :happy:


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## Astroboy (Mar 17, 2009)

Sadhu Ji,



> *The mind is so much absorbed in maya, that it is impossible to separate them. In fact mind itself is nothing but maya. You will have to drop it all together. You will have to drop the whole wall of maya and mind. *


You added your own opinion by saying *In fact mind itself is nothing but maya. You will have to drop it all together. 

*Re read the shabad you posted:


> ਮਨੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੈ ਰਮਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਨਿਕਸਤ ਨਾਹਿਨ ਮੀਤ ॥
> *man maaeiaa mai ram rehiou nikasath naahin meeth ||*
> 
> *The mind is absorbed in Maya - it cannot escape it, my friend.*
> ...


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## Astroboy (Mar 18, 2009)

Page 1346, Line 3
*ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਵੇਖੁ ਤੂ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥*
गुर परसादी वेखु तू हरि मंदरु तेरै नालि ॥
Gur parsādī vekẖ ṯū har manḏar ṯerai nāl.
By Guru's Grace, see that the Temple of the Lord is within you.
Guru Amar Das   -  view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


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