# Difference Between Knowledge And Truth ?



## Neutral Singh (Oct 16, 2004)

I am kinda curious here...

*What is the difference between knowledge and truth ? Is there a difference ?*


While surfing I came across this :





And I thought well...all I have to do is change the word *philosophy* to *knowledge* and I would have my answer ! But then that implies that the word "philosophy" and "knowledge" are interchangeable ! What do U think ?


They all seem (i.e knowledge and truth) to go "hand in hand" but at the same time they seem like a comparison between "apples and oranges" !


----------



## Tejwant Singh (Oct 16, 2004)

Philosophy is the mechanism one uses to attain knowledge and the knowledge leads to Gurmat wisdom which leads to truth.


Tejwant


----------



## etinder (Oct 16, 2004)

what i feel is that truth is absolute, its not dependent on a beings physical or mental faculties..on the other hand when we talk of knowledge its very much dependent on sensory mental and spiritual experiences of a being..

but i strongly feel that the sole purpose of existence and knowledge is to know the truth


----------



## Neutral Singh (Oct 18, 2004)

Why truth is so elusive ? Why we have to seek Truth ? What happens when we know the Truth ?


----------



## saint (Dec 13, 2006)

We all claim that this or that is true. But if we do not know what truth is then we have no idea what we are saying when we claim such things. We all claim to know this or that. But if we do not know how we know, and how we know we know we're knowing, then we do not really know anything at all. 

Maybe the question should be...
HOW CAN WE FIND OUT?


Saint


----------



## Tejwant Singh (Dec 13, 2006)

etinder said:


> what i feel is that truth is absolute, its not dependent on a beings physical or mental faculties..on the other hand when we talk of knowledge its very much dependent on sensory mental and spiritual experiences of a being..
> 
> but i strongly feel that the sole purpose of existence and knowledge is to know the truth


 
Dear Etinder ji,

Guru Fateh.

I beg to differ with you. Truth is ABSOLUTE only if it is based on Subjective Truths ( note the plural), meaning 'truth' of each religion. Like for the christians and muslims we as sikhs are all going to hell. For a muslim, a chirsitian is going to hell as well and the muslim thinks the same for the others. Their reality is based on thier on Subjective Truths, which they call The ABSOULUTE TRUTH. 

Whereas Sikhi is NOT based on absolute truth but on OBJECTIVE REALITY which is shown at the bottom of your each post from Japji, which means reality is still unfolding itself. Stars are born and die everyday. Hence Sat is accepting what is happening and changing.. and thats the Truth.

Tejwant


----------



## H.t. (Jan 7, 2007)

The gravitational acceleration on earth at sea level through a 70% 20% 10% mixture of oxygen, nitrogen, and other, is 32 feet per second per second. This is accurate (true) and factual (knowledge).
Philosophy is by definition the love of wisdom. Like the table says, philosophy is from within. Philosophy is as to say, "What do _you_ think?"
Knowledge on the other hand is as to say, "What can be proven?"
The existence of God can be a matter of either philosophy or knowledge. I can reasonable suggest the second law of thermodynamics as the universe's need for God. This makes it a matter of knowledge. 
 "I believe that God exists." This is my belief and needs no phisical laws to prove it. I may be right or i may be wrong, but in philosophy right and wrong are irrelevent.
  Simply stated, philosophy is "I believe..." and knowledge is "I know...and here's how i know..."
  Truth is that which is proven accurate in knowledge. Philosophy is not a matter of finding knowledge, so it cannot be compared to truth.
Basically, philosophy, knowledge, and truth (though all intellectual) are separate disciplines with some bleed over.

seeking after God
H.t.​


----------



## H.t. (Jan 7, 2007)

VaheguruSeekr said:


> Dear Etinder ji,
> 
> Guru Fateh.
> 
> I beg to differ with you. Truth is ABSOLUTE only if it is based on Subjective Truths ( note the plural), meaning 'truth' of each religion. Like for the christians and muslims we as sikhs are all going to hell. For a muslim, a chirsitian is going to hell as well and the muslim thinks the same for the others. Their reality is based on thier on Subjective Truths, which they call The ABSOULUTE TRUTH.


 
  Truth is never subjective. I _do_ believe that Jeshuah is the only way to eternity with God, therefore all other ways are Satan's plan to spite God through human free will by condemning God's creation to Sheol. Is this truth? You don't think so.
  Neither me believing it or you not believing it makes it stand or fall. There are two possibilities. Either Jeshuah is the only way for salvation and my beliefs are truth, or there _is_ another way and your beliefs are truth.
  Which one of us is right?
Seeking after God​H.t.​


----------



## Archived_Member5 (Jun 3, 2008)

Knowledge is an amalgam of information. Truths are facts. Facts are subjective and relative.

Wisdom is an absolute cognitive understanding of the correlation of all truths and knowledge.


----------



## pk70 (Jun 3, 2008)

*Knowledge covers up Truth but at informatory level; however, only experiment concludes the weight of totality of the truth. Truth has many facets, without experiments, truth remains a pile of statements. In other words experiment is the only measurement of Truth..*


----------



## Archived_Member5 (Jun 4, 2008)

Absolutism of truth is the end of mans journey of learning and seeking truth. To be entirely dismissive of an absolute truth is to deny the existence of the Omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent Supreme Spirit of Parmatma. The word of God is Absolute truth.

Respectfully.


----------



## Archived_member2 (Jun 4, 2008)

What is the word of God that is Absolute truth?


----------



## spnadmin (Jun 4, 2008)

Jios

Just for forum members interest. There is a great article, posted a while back on SPN, that is related to this thread.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/spiritual-articles/672-realm-of-knowledge.html


----------



## ekmusafir_ajnabi (Jun 4, 2008)

jeetijohal said:


> Absolutism of truth is the end of mans journey of learning and seeking truth. To be entirely dismissive of an absolute truth is to deny the existence of the Omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent Supreme Spirit of Parmatma. The word of God is Absolute truth.
> 
> Respectfully.



The word of God is spiritual awakening. It is a realization.


----------



## Archived_member2 (Jun 5, 2008)

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all!

Quote from Ekmusafir_ajnabi Jee "The word of God is spiritual awakening."
Is 'spiritual awakening' the word of God or that of a human language?

Quote "It is a realization."
Is it not a sound? 

Please expand your discovered experience further.


Balbir Singh


----------



## Astroboy (Jun 5, 2008)

ਆਤਮ  ਮਹਿ  ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ  ਲਹੰਤੇ  ॥
आतम महि पारब्रहमु लहंते ॥
Āṯam meh pārbarahm lahanṯė.
Within their souls, they find the Supreme Lord God.


----------



## spnadmin (Oct 17, 2008)

ਸੁਣਹਿ ਵਖਾਣਹਿ ਜੇਤੜੇ ਹਉ ਤਿਨ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੈ ਜਾਉ ॥ 
sunehi vakhaanehi jaetharrae ho thin balihaarai jaao ||
I am a sacrifice to those who hear and chant the True Name.
  
 ਤਾ ਮਨੁ ਖੀਵਾ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਜਾ ਮਹਲੀ ਪਾਏ ਥਾਉ ॥੨॥ 
thaa man kheevaa jaaneeai jaa mehalee paaeae thhaao ||2||
Only one who obtains a room in the Mansion of the Lord's Presence is deemed to be truly intoxicated. ||2||
  
 ਨਾਉ ਨੀਰੁ ਚੰਗਿਆਈਆ ਸਤੁ ਪਰਮਲੁ ਤਨਿ ਵਾਸੁ ॥ 
naao neer changiaaeeaa sath paramal than vaas ||
Bathe in the waters of Goodness and apply the scented oil of Truth to your body,
  
 ਤਾ ਮੁਖੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਉਜਲਾ ਲਖ ਦਾਤੀ ਇਕ ਦਾਤਿ ॥ 
thaa mukh hovai oujalaa lakh dhaathee eik dhaath ||
and your face shall become radiant. This is the gift of 100,000 gifts.
  
 ਦੂਖ ਤਿਸੈ ਪਹਿ ਆਖੀਅਹਿ ਸੂਖ ਜਿਸੈ ਹੀ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੩॥ 
dhookh thisai pehi aakheeahi sookh jisai hee paas ||3||
Tell your troubles to the One who is the Source of all comfort. ||3||
  
 ਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਮਨਹੁ ਵਿਸਾਰੀਐ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਜੀਅ ਪਰਾਣ ॥ 
so kio manahu visaareeai jaa kae jeea paraan ||
How can you forget the One who created your soul, and the praanaa, the breath of life?
  
 ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਭੁ ਅਪਵਿਤ੍ਰੁ ਹੈ ਜੇਤਾ ਪੈਨਣੁ ਖਾਣੁ ॥ 
this vin sabh apavithra hai jaethaa painan khaan ||
Without Him, all that we wear and eat is impure.
  

 ਹੋਰਿ ਗਲਾਂ ਸਭਿ ਕੂੜੀਆ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥੪॥੫॥ 
hor galaan sabh koorreeaa thudhh bhaavai paravaan ||4||5||
Everything else is false. Whatever pleases Your Will is acceptable. ||4||5||


----------



## spnadmin (Oct 17, 2008)

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]"Where did we come from? Where are we going? Where          will we be absorbed? One who reveals the meaning of this Shabad is the          Guru, who has no greed at all. How can one find the essence of the unmanifest          reality? How does one become Gurmukh, and enshrine love for the Lord?          He Himself is consciousness, He Himself is the Creator; share with us,          Nanak, your wisdom." By His Command we come, and by His Command we          go; by His Command, we merge in absorption. Through the Perfect Guru,          live the Truth; through the Word of the Shabad, the state of dignity is          attained. *|| 22 || 
*
[/FONT]ਪੂਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਸਾਚੁ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਗਤਿ ਮਿਤਿ ਸਬਦੇ ਪਾਈ ॥੨੨॥ 
poorae gur thae saach kamaavai gath mith sabadhae paaee ||22||
Through the Perfect Guru, live the Truth; through the Word of the Shabad, the state of dignity is attained. ||22||
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]
       We can only express a sense of wonder about the beginning.          The absolute abided endlessly deep within Himself then. Consider freedom          from desire to be the ear-rings of the Guru's spiritual wisdom. The True          Lord, the Soul of all, dwells within each and every heart. Through the          Guru's Word, one merges in the absolute, and intuitively receives the          immaculate essence. O Nanak, that Sikh who seeks and finds the Way does          not serve any other. Wonderful and amazing is His Command; He alone realizes          His Command and knows the true way of life of His creatures. One who eradicates          his self-conceit becomes free of desire; he alone is a Yogi, who enshrines          the True Lord deep within. *|| 23 || 
*


*Sidh Gosht
*
[/FONT]


----------



## Archived_Member5 (Oct 18, 2008)

Great wisdom is gained by ascetics, holders of universal consciousness. Universal consciousness is all pervading as an omniscient spiritual energy force. As mankind shed their egos’s, fear of the unknown, anger of trials endured, or misunderstanding of existentialism and understanding of the nature of others, as he detaches from these earthly impediment he gains release from his body and becomes an awakened realised spirit. The degree of realisation of the world, or knowledge and insight varies from soul to soul. It is said and acknowledge by all The Supreme Guru is Peace, Beauty, Love and Wisdom. Between mankind and this Supreme and supernal Light lies many hazardous trails whereupon lurk demons, trolls and subversive negative forces seeking to lead astray the mind of seekers of Gods light. Some souls are cast into this purgatory abyss of tribulation, and battle to defend their very sanity whilst remaining focussed. 

It is not a mortal God or Fakir man seeks, but the Light of peace and love wherein dwell in heavenly states those who attain this highest condition of living. When man is without this light he stumbles blindly unaware of the inherent dangers that stalk and surround him. Truth is light and dispels the darkness of his confusion. And he find light. Love is light, comforted by its warm providence and security he is at peace with his world and in state of jiwan mukti. Yet there are forces that besiege and torment, Guru Nanak too lamented at one juncture, ‘’they hound as barking dogs, and in seeking to scatter them reduce me to their kind’’. Other scholars will find this as a verse in the Adi Granth. Jesus and Mohammed too all fought for their peace of mind and we know them to be the most beautiful, blameless and holy souls as history testifies. 

This negative force, hatefulness has a root cause. Sometimes I feel it is preferable to remain slumbering and sleeping in the dark night of many trials and treachery. For to awaken is to be a light amidst the chaos and mayhem of one’s surrounding hell, to live giving sustenance to demonic forces or to be extinguished. To be neither is possibly the worst hell, in a labyrinth between life and death.

My Thoughts ....

Love Peace and Prosperity ...


----------



## Astroboy (Oct 18, 2008)

aad0002 said:


> [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]*"Where did we come from?* Where are we going? Where          will we be absorbed? One who reveals the meaning of this Shabad is the          Guru, who has no greed at all. How can one find the essence of the unmanifest          reality? How does one become Gurmukh, and enshrine love for the Lord?          He Himself is consciousness, He Himself is the Creator; share with us,          Nanak, your wisdom." By His Command we come, and by His Command we          go; by His Command, we merge in absorption. Through the Perfect Guru,          live the Truth; through the Word of the Shabad, the state of dignity is          attained. *|| 22 ||
> *
> [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]*
> *
> ...



ਗਉੜੀ  ਚੇਤੀ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੧  ॥ 
गउड़ी चेती महला १ ॥ 
Ga▫oṛī cẖeṯī mėhlā 1. 
Gauree Chaytee, First Mehl: 

ਕਤ  ਕੀ  ਮਾਈ  ਬਾਪੁ  ਕਤ  ਕੇਰਾ  ਕਿਦੂ  ਥਾਵਹੁ  ਹਮ  ਆਏ  ॥ 
कत की माई बापु कत केरा किदू थावहु हम आए ॥ 
Kaṯ kī mā▫ī bāp kaṯ kerā kiḏū thāvhu ham ā▫e. 
Who is our mother, and who is our father? Where did we come from? 

ਅਗਨਿ  ਬਿੰਬ  ਜਲ  ਭੀਤਰਿ  ਨਿਪਜੇ  ਕਾਹੇ  ਕੰਮਿ  ਉਪਾਏ  ॥੧॥ 
अगनि बि्मब जल भीतरि निपजे काहे कमि उपाए ॥१॥ 
Agan bimb jal bẖīṯar nipje kāhe kamm upā▫e. ||1|| 
We are formed from the fire of the womb within, and the bubble of water of the sperm. For what purpose are we created? ||1|| 

ਮੇਰੇ  ਸਾਹਿਬਾ  ਕਉਣੁ  ਜਾਣੈ  ਗੁਣ  ਤੇਰੇ  ॥ 
मेरे साहिबा कउणु जाणै गुण तेरे ॥ 
Mere sāhibā ka▫uṇ jāṇai guṇ ṯere. 
O my Master, who can know Your Glorious Virtues? 

ਕਹੇ  ਨ  ਜਾਨੀ  ਅਉਗਣ  ਮੇਰੇ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥ 
कहे न जानी अउगण मेरे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ 
Kahe na jānī a▫ugaṇ mere. ||1|| rahā▫o. 
My own demerits cannot be counted. ||1||Pause|| 

ਕੇਤੇ  ਰੁਖ  ਬਿਰਖ  ਹਮ  ਚੀਨੇ  ਕੇਤੇ  ਪਸੂ  ਉਪਾਏ  ॥ 
केते रुख बिरख हम चीने केते पसू उपाए ॥ 
Keṯe rukẖ birakẖ ham cẖīne keṯe pasū upā▫e. 
I took the form of so many plants and trees, and so many animals. 

ਕੇਤੇ  ਨਾਗ  ਕੁਲੀ  ਮਹਿ  ਆਏ  ਕੇਤੇ  ਪੰਖ  ਉਡਾਏ  ॥੨॥ 
केते नाग कुली महि आए केते पंख उडाए ॥२॥ 
Keṯe nāg kulī mėh ā▫e keṯe pankẖ udā▫e. ||2|| 
Many times I entered the families of snakes and flying birds. ||2|| 

ਹਟ  ਪਟਣ  ਬਿਜ  ਮੰਦਰ  ਭੰਨੈ  ਕਰਿ  ਚੋਰੀ  ਘਰਿ  ਆਵੈ  ॥ 
हट पटण बिज मंदर भंनै करि चोरी घरि आवै ॥ 
Hat pataṇ bij manḏar bẖannai kar cẖorī gẖar āvai. 
I broke into the shops of the city and well-guarded palaces; stealing from them, I come home again. 

ਅਗਹੁ  ਦੇਖੈ  ਪਿਛਹੁ  ਦੇਖੈ  ਤੁਝ  ਤੇ  ਕਹਾ  ਛਪਾਵੈ  ॥੩॥ 
अगहु देखै पिछहु देखै तुझ ते कहा छपावै ॥३॥ 
Agahu ḏekẖai picẖẖahu ḏekẖai ṯujẖ ṯe kahā cẖẖapāvai. ||3|| 
I looked in front of me, and I looked behind me, but where could I hide from You? ||3|| 

ਤਟ  ਤੀਰਥ  ਹਮ  ਨਵ  ਖੰਡ  ਦੇਖੇ  ਹਟ  ਪਟਣ  ਬਾਜਾਰਾ  ॥ 
तट तीरथ हम नव खंड देखे हट पटण बाजारा ॥ 
Ŧat ṯirath ham nav kẖand ḏekẖe hat pataṇ bājārā. 
I saw the banks of sacred rivers, the nine continents, the shops and bazaars of the cities. 

ਲੈ  ਕੈ  ਤਕੜੀ  ਤੋਲਣਿ  ਲਾਗਾ  ਘਟ  ਹੀ  ਮਹਿ  ਵਣਜਾਰਾ  ॥੪॥ 
लै कै तकड़ी तोलणि लागा घट ही महि वणजारा ॥४॥ 
Lai kai ṯakṛī ṯolaṇ lāgā gẖat hī mėh vaṇjārā. ||4|| 
Taking the scale, the merchant begins to weigh his actions within his own heart. ||4|| 

ਜੇਤਾ  ਸਮੁੰਦੁ  ਸਾਗਰੁ  ਨੀਰਿ  ਭਰਿਆ  ਤੇਤੇ  ਅਉਗਣ  ਹਮਾਰੇ  ॥ 
जेता समुंदु सागरु नीरि भरिआ तेते अउगण हमारे ॥ 
Jeṯā samunḏ sāgar nīr bẖari▫ā ṯeṯe a▫ugaṇ hamāre. 
As the seas and the oceans are overflowing with water, so vast are my own sins. 

ਦਇਆ  ਕਰਹੁ  ਕਿਛੁ  ਮਿਹਰ  ਉਪਾਵਹੁ  ਡੁਬਦੇ  ਪਥਰ  ਤਾਰੇ  ॥੫॥ 
दइआ करहु किछु मिहर उपावहु डुबदे पथर तारे ॥५॥ 
Ḏa▫i▫ā karahu kicẖẖ mihar upāvhu dubḏe pathar ṯāre. ||5|| 
Please, shower me with Your Mercy, and take pity upon me. I am a sinking stone - please carry me across! ||5|| 

ਜੀਅੜਾ  ਅਗਨਿ  ਬਰਾਬਰਿ  ਤਪੈ  ਭੀਤਰਿ  ਵਗੈ  ਕਾਤੀ  ॥ 
जीअड़ा अगनि बराबरि तपै भीतरि वगै काती ॥ 
Jī▫aṛā agan barābar ṯapai bẖīṯar vagai kāṯī. 
My soul is burning like fire, and the knife is cutting deep. 

ਪ੍ਰਣਵਤਿ  ਨਾਨਕੁ  ਹੁਕਮੁ  ਪਛਾਣੈ  ਸੁਖੁ  ਹੋਵੈ  ਦਿਨੁ  ਰਾਤੀ  ॥੬॥੫॥੧੭॥ 
प्रणवति नानकु हुकमु पछाणै सुखु होवै दिनु राती ॥६॥५॥१७॥ 
Paraṇvaṯ Nānak hukam pacẖẖāṇai sukẖ hovai ḏin rāṯī. ||6||5||17|| 
Prays Nanak, recognizing the Lord's Command, I am at peace, day and night. ||6||5||17||


----------



## Randip Singh (Oct 18, 2008)

Neutral Singh said:


> I am kinda curious here...
> 
> *What is the difference between knowledge and truth ? Is there a difference ?*
> 
> ...



Interesting that Guru Nanak emphasises Truthful Living above Truth:

Page 62, Line 11
ਸਚਹੁ ਓਰੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਉਪਰਿ ਸਚੁ ਆਚਾਰੁ ॥੫॥
सचहु ओरै सभु को उपरि सचु आचारु ॥५॥
Sacẖahu orai sabẖ ko upar sacẖ ācẖār. ||5||
Truth is higher than everything; but higher still is *truthful living*. ||5||
*Guru Nanak Dev*   -  [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


----------

