# Sorrow Makes You Realize The Unreality Of This World And All Its Relations



## Seeker2013 (Nov 19, 2016)

Nothing forces you to pause and reflect on what you're doing in life than sorrow , dukh !
Nothing forces you to see this fakeness of this relationships (parents, fiance, friends) , how unreal they can be, how fleeting and temporary only when the hard reality slaps on your face and tells you what the guru has been telling you all along but do we listen ?

Dukh forces a person to reframe life , it will reset all your priorities , it forces even the most strongest of all to reevaluate what they have been believing as facts about life and relations in it.
*Its as if, all this is unreal and reality is something else altogether ! *


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## Sikhilove (Nov 20, 2016)

Seeker2013 said:


> Nothing forces you to pause and reflect on what you're doing in life than sorrow , dukh !
> Nothing forces you to see this fakeness of this relationships (parents, fiance, friends) , how unreal they can be, how fleeting and temporary only when the hard reality slaps on your face and tells you what the guru has been telling you all along but do we listen ?
> 
> Dukh forces a person to reframe life , it will reset all your priorities , it forces even the most strongest of all to reevaluate what they have been believing as facts about life and relations in it.
> *Its as if, all this is unreal and reality is something else altogether ! *



Yes. Some people learn these lessons over and over again, lifetime after lifetime. They don't evaluate or learn the lessons taught and instead react in maya, anger, jealousy and envy, greed and ego.

Learn them once, react in truth and we save yourselves a lot of time.


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## Seeker2013 (Nov 20, 2016)

Sikhilove said:


> Yes. Some people learn these lessons over and over again, lifetime after lifetime. They don't evaluate or learn the lessons taught and instead react in maya, anger, jealousy and envy, greed and ego.
> 
> Learn them once, react in truth and we save yourselves a lot of time.



In the evening twilight, reading sukhmani sahib paath with so much love and amazement of baani and a few hours later, Kaam, Krodh and Hankaar is back  
shows where I stand


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## Sikhilove (Nov 20, 2016)

Seeker2013 said:


> In the evening twilight, reading sukhmani sahib paath with so much love and amazement of baani and a few hours later, Kaam, Krodh and Hankaar is back
> shows where I stand



Truth is 24/7 service, try and apply Gurbani by remembering the Gyan throughout your everyday life and by living it. 

In living it, you become it. Have no fear, and be all loving because it's All Him.


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## Seeker2013 (Nov 20, 2016)

Sikhilove said:


> Truth is 24/7 service, try and apply Gurbani by remembering the Gyan throughout your everyday life and by living it.
> 
> In living it, you become it. Have no fear, and be all loving because it's All Him.


Living baani in practicality is tough isn't it ?
so tough esp with people who make u angry


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## Sikhilove (Nov 20, 2016)

Seeker2013 said:


> Living baani in practicality is tough isn't it ?
> so tough esp with people who make u angry



It's not supposed to be difficult, the path is meant to be uncomplicated, we ourselves make it complicated.

 Living in Nirboah and Nirvair are prerequisites for a Bhagat: recognise Him as All and in every action, hence be All Loving and fearless because it's all just Him. React with Love beyond logic, without fear and hate. 

Like I said before, be compassionate towards the fools, they know not what they do, bless them to learn the errors of their ways. That's what you can do for a slanderer- what goes around comes around and they'll get their karma back, how else will they learn. 

So why get angry? Be at peace- no one can steal your peace from you, it's your choice what state of mind you live. Focus on yourself, not others, their mental illnesses are their own problem not yours.


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## sukhsingh (Nov 20, 2016)

I disagree.. Seeing the beauty of the creative force is the true remover of illusion for me


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## sukhsingh (Nov 20, 2016)

Sikhilove said:


> It's not supposed to be difficult, the path is meant to be uncomplicated, we ourselves make it complicated.
> 
> Living in Nirboah and Nirvair are prerequisites for a Bhagat: recognise Him as All and in every action, hence be All Loving and fearless because it's all just Him. React with Love beyond logic, without fear and hate.
> 
> ...


No disrespect but the post feels a bit patronising.. Who is 'I' to see people who don't see the world like me as having mental illness? If sikhi teaches us anything surely it first teaches us to not judge so easily.. The village fool is often the most enlightened?


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## sukhsingh (Nov 20, 2016)

Sikhilove said:


> It's not supposed to be difficult, the path is meant to be uncomplicated, we ourselves make it complicated.
> 
> Living in Nirboah and Nirvair are prerequisites for a Bhagat: recognise Him as All and in every action, hence be All Loving and fearless because it's all just Him. React with Love beyond logic, without fear and hate.
> 
> ...


Ignorance offers peace,?


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## RD1 (Nov 21, 2016)

Seeker2013 said:


> Dukh forces a person to reframe life , it will reset all your priorities , it forces even the most strongest of all to reevaluate what they have been believing as facts about life and relations in it.



Pain is an excellent teacher. There is a tendency to always want to chase and maximize pleasure, and minimize pain, and this makes sense. However, when we are faced with pain, we can either deal with it or find many ways to avoid dealing with it. 

I have found that exploring pain - which means exploring our inner vulnerabilities, and gaining a deeper understanding of ourselves, can also in turn help to build compassion and empathy towards others. 

As you have also alluded to, when things are going smoothly in life and we are just sailing on by, it can lead us to even take things for grated. Pain can then slap us right in the face, shake us up, open our eyes to things we may be unaware of, and as you said, it can give us an opportunity to reevaluate our beliefs - as long as we are open to questioning our mindsets, and using pain as a teacher.


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## RD1 (Nov 21, 2016)

sukhsingh said:


> I disagree.. Seeing the beauty of the creative force is the true remover of illusion for me



Interesting perspective. Any particular examples to further explain?


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## sukhsingh (Nov 21, 2016)

RD1 said:


> Interesting perspective. Any particular examples to further explain?



Dukh offers a perspective but pain and understanding of personal pain can  often leads to a type of self wallowing, or hate.  Their can be many things that lead to self reflection dukh/sukh. We focus on the dukh but we only need to look at the wonderment of creation.  within which both dukh and sukh exists. Dukh indicates what is wrong or what we wish to overcome to find sukh


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## RD1 (Nov 21, 2016)

sukhsingh said:


> Dukh offers a perspective but pain and understanding of personal pain can often leads to a type of self wallowing, or hate. Their can be many things that lead to self reflection dukh/sukh. We focus on the dukh but we only need to look at the wonderment of creation. within which both dukh and sukh exists. Dukh indicates what is wrong or what we wish to overcome to find sukh



If we use  pain as a teacher, learn from it, and then detach ourselves form it, then it does not have to lead to self-wallowing or hate. We can choose to interpret things how we wish.

Looking at the wonderment of creation is also a valid point. It can also be empowering! And I think when you said -"Dukh indicates what is wrong or what we wish to overcome to find sukh" - this ties it all nicely together.


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## Sikhilove (Nov 21, 2016)

sukhsingh said:


> No disrespect but the post feels a bit patronising.. Who is 'I' to see people who don't see the world like me as having mental illness? If sikhi teaches us anything surely it first teaches us to not judge so easily.. The village fool is often the most enlightened?



Truth is the dispeller of ignorance. You recognise fools for want they are in the khel, remain wise to maya.

But of course, above all, we Always remember the laws of Nirboah and Nirvair, no fear or enmity, being All Loving for all is Him. So we bow to every darshan He comes to us in, including maya. Losing sight of Nirboah and Nirvair, we are lost.

Fools are fools due to ego, we drop the ego and we realise we're Nothing. Being attached to ego is a mental illness, that's what delusion is, and Gurbani speaks of the world being deluded by the illusion.


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## RD1 (Nov 21, 2016)

Sikhilove said:


> Being attached to ego is a mental illness, that's what delusion is



It is important to understand and recognize that what we may call a "mental illness" and "delusion" when we speak spirituality, is different from what a mental illness is from a medical/psychiatric perspective. Someone with an actual diagnosable mental illness (e.g.: schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, major depressive disorder, etc.) is not someone simply choosing to be attached to ego. A mental illness is a disorder of the brain, which can cause dysfunction in one's thinking and behaviour. Just like lung cancer will result in dysfunction of the lungs and interfere with the lung's ability to perform its function (e.g.: breathing) properly.


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## sukhsingh (Nov 22, 2016)

RD1 said:


> If we use  pain as a teacher, learn from it, and then detach ourselves form it, then it does not have to lead to self-wallowing or hate. We can choose to interpret things how we wish.
> 
> Looking at the wonderment of creation is also a valid point. It can also be empowering! And I think when you said -"Dukh indicates what is wrong or what we wish to overcome to find sukh" - this ties it all nicely together.



Self wallowing was probably a bit strong! 
I suppose what I am trying to articulate is that as individuals and especially as a community when we look at dukh we often become very introspective to the point that we become wedded to "injustices" which then come to become defining characteristics.. The sikh community has endured many injustices. But I feel we should be defined by a "chardi kala" attitude. Dukh should remind us of our humanity and how regardless of who you are it something we share with all people


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## RD1 (Nov 22, 2016)

suhsingh said:


> Self wallowing was probably a bit strong!
> I suppose what I am trying to articulate is that as individuals and especially as a community when we look at dukh we often become very introspective to the point that we become wedded to "injustices" which then come to become defining characteristics..



This is a very interesting take on it. Its very true, when we introspect regarding dukh, the idea of injustice does come to mind. I guess at this point we have to decide what to do about that - fixate on the injustices or on how life may appear "unfair," or we use this to empower use to overcome injustice, to detach from the dukh



sukhsingh said:


> Dukh should remind us of our humanity and how regardless of who you are it something we share with all people



Another interesting perspective! Duke (and Sukh) are universally shared by all people, and just remembering this allows us to "humanize" others and ourselves, and can lead to greater understanding of each other, and greater compassion.


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## sukhsingh (Nov 22, 2016)

RD1 said:


> This is a very interesting take on it. Its very true, when we introspect regarding dukh, the idea of injustice does come to mind. I guess at this point we have to decide what to do about that - fixate on the injustices or on how life may appear "unfair," or we use this to empower use to overcome injustice, to detach from the dukh
> 
> 
> 
> Another interesting perspective! Duke (and Sukh) are universally shared by all people, and just remembering this allows us to "humanize" others and ourselves, and can lead to greater understanding of each other, and greater compassion.


I agree and that's why I think chardi kala is a important concept. Because it reminds us that however bad we think things are for ourselves we must think about others.. We as individuals do not have a monopoly on Dukh. It reminds us why in a practical sense the importance of kirat karoo, that if we forget about humanity we forget about sarbat da balla.


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## sukhsingh (Nov 22, 2016)

RD1 said:


> This is a very interesting take on it. Its very true, when we introspect regarding dukh, the idea of injustice does come to mind. I guess at this point we have to decide what to do about that - fixate on the injustices or on how life may appear "unfair," or we use this to empower use to overcome injustice, to detach from the dukh
> 
> 
> 
> Another interesting perspective! Duke (and Sukh) are universally shared by all people, and just remembering this allows us to "humanize" others and ourselves, and can lead to greater understanding of each other, and greater compassion.


I believe that Whilst khoj is central to a 'sikhs' journey and the search for truth is the definition of khoj, challenging ones, beliefs, challenging ones prejudices it is only useful in conjunction when one does not lose sight of the fact we live in a society. Else we may as well go live in a cave and meditate. For me the desire of khoj is evidence of gur-prasad?


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## Sikhilove (Nov 23, 2016)

sukhsingh said:


> I agree and that's why I think chardi kala is a important concept. Because it reminds us that however bad we think things are for ourselves we must think about others.. We as individuals do not have a monopoly on Dukh. It reminds us why in a practical sense the importance of kirat karoo, that if we forget about humanity we forget about sarbat da balla.



As well as the fact that Gurbani teaches us that pain is the medicine and pleasure is the disease for in pleasure, one rarely thinks of God.

Loved the bit about pain leading to compassion for others.

This is a bit off topic but I have a friend who once told me about someone really spiritually gifted. He said the way this woman became so gifted at lived at such a high frequency was that every time she saw someone mistreating/ hurting someone else she made a vow to herself that she would never do the same thing.

A king could be a beggar in the next life and a beggar a King, it shows that we are all equal and should never look down on a soul less fortunate. We're all the same, we're just where we've been put.


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## Harry Haller (Nov 23, 2016)

Sikhilove said:


> As well as the fact that Gurbani teaches us that pain is the medicine and pleasure is the disease for in pleasure, one rarely thinks of God.



I would suggest that any pleasure that involves the five thieves is a disease, and at that point, one never thinks of God, however, there are simple pleasures where one often thinks of God, the smile on a newborn, the eating of a delicious apple, the smell of a very old range rover, there are plenty pleasures that one can enjoy, devoid of the five thieves that connect one with God, in my opinion.


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## sukhsingh (Nov 23, 2016)

Sikhilove said:


> As well as the fact that Gurbani teaches us that pain is the medicine and pleasure is the disease for in pleasure, one rarely thinks of God.
> 
> Loved the bit about pain leading to compassion for others.
> 
> ...



I remember as a kid and experiencing racism and thinking how irrational prejudices. And it made me reflect on my own prejudices and what Impact they have on framing my own perspective. When I considered 1 onkaar. Sat naam. It made me think that if prejudice is born out of falsehood and I object to racism, then if I want to live in a world devoid of prejudices I should first question my own.


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## Harry Haller (Nov 23, 2016)

we hate in others, what we normally hate in ourselves..


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## sukhsingh (Nov 23, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> we hate in others, what we normally hate in ourselves..


In addition I think in most cases hate/prejudice is taught... In most cases I think hate is generated by accident, or rather as a by product of the manipulation of power or response to injustice. So for instance when as youngsters growing up in England I remember elders  dismissing white culture as immoral and women as promiscuous, which served in part as a defence mechanism to boost a cultural identity. But then second and third  generation kids identifying and defining  themselves as the "other" . Rock n roll music is white people's music, hip hop is for blacks and if you don't like bhangra your a Coconut. Before you know it these characteristics can imprison our minds. I think this goes for all people, we try to define ourselves by what we think we are not or rather construct identities for ourselves to make us feel better about ourselves. But ultimately it's tribal. Without sounding all high and mighty and sanctimonious I had to stop wearing my kara and cut my hair because I felt I did not deserve to. Wearing a big kara to use in a rare up was akin to a nazi boot boys doc martens or a brahmins jannaeu. Devoid of what it stands for.


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## Sikhilove (Nov 24, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> I would suggest that any pleasure that involves the five thieves is a disease, and at that point, one never thinks of God, however, there are simple pleasures where one often thinks of God, the smile on a newborn, the eating of a delicious apple, the smell of a very old range rover, there are plenty pleasures that one can enjoy, devoid of the five thieves that connect one with God, in my opinion.



It depends on what you're like. Gratitude often leads one to thank Him for our gifts, many keep consuming while wishing for more, an endless cycle of desire.


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## Sikhilove (Nov 24, 2016)

sukhsingh said:


> In addition I think in most cases hate/prejudice is taught... In most cases I think hate is generated by accident, or rather as a by product of the manipulation of power or response to injustice. So for instance when as youngsters growing up in England I remember elders  dismissing white culture as immoral and women as promiscuous, which served in part as a defence mechanism to boost a cultural identity. But then second and third  generation kids identifying and defining  themselves as the "other" . Rock n roll music is white people's music, hip hop is for blacks and if you don't like bhangra your a Coconut. Before you know it these characteristics can imprison our minds. I think this goes for all people, we try to define ourselves by what we think we are not or rather construct identities for ourselves to make us feel better about ourselves. But ultimately it's tribal. Without sounding all high and mighty and sanctimonious I had to stop wearing my kara and cut my hair because I felt I did not deserve to. Wearing a big kara to use in a rare up was akin to a nazi boot boys doc martens or a brahmins jannaeu. Devoid of what it stands for.



Great post 

Just now, I walked home with a friend who wears a turban and got negative looks from a gang of white and black guys. My friend looked down as we walked by them because the way they were dressed, their mannerisms etc collectively indicated they were bad news.

It's really sad how much society and culture has had a negative impact on many people in England and London where I live, especially blacks and whites many of whom are attached to gang culture which is promoted on tv and in music.

This great city is scattered with people like this who try to Instill fear in others, out of insecurity I have found.


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## RD1 (Nov 25, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> I would suggest that any pleasure that involves the five thieves is a disease, and at that point, one never thinks of God, however, there are simple pleasures where one often thinks of God, the smile on a newborn, the eating of a delicious apple, the smell of a very old range rover, there are plenty pleasures that one can enjoy, devoid of the five thieves that connect one with God, in my opinion.



Being awe-struck in the presence of mountains, hearing a  moving poem or song, gazing at stars millions of light years away, feeling the soft petals of a flower - the simplest pleasures indeed can make one feel connected to something so profound! The beauty of the One is all around us.


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## RD1 (Nov 25, 2016)

sukhsingh said:


> Before you know it these characteristics can imprison our minds



Agreed. We end up putting ourselves into rigid boxes if we think like this - and this inhibits our personal growth and development. In turn, we also stereotype and put others into rigid definitions or boxes. We will see others as different, and unlike us - and this will fuel ignorance, further fear, and hate. Divisions grow. We all have our labels - our gender, nationality, ethnicity, professions, etc., but these things need to be seen as secondary. We must see each other label-less first and foremost - as human, as carriers of the divine, as manifestations of the One. Focus on what connects us, what we share, first and foremost.


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## Sikhilove (Nov 27, 2016)

RD1 said:


> Agreed. We end up putting ourselves into rigid boxes if we think like this - and this inhibits our personal growth and development. In turn, we also stereotype and put others into rigid definitions or boxes. We will see others as different, and unlike us - and this will fuel ignorance, further fear, and hate. Divisions grow. We all have our labels - our gender, nationality, ethnicity, professions, etc., but these things need to be seen as secondary. We must see each other label-less first and foremost - as human, as carriers of the divine, as manifestations of the One. Focus on what connects us, what we share, first and foremost.



Maya can't comprehend freedom of choice, they only know the gimmick of society. When you're free from the chains of bull, you're free from the gimmick of society. 

Bhagat are societies outcastes, they may look the part and get along with everyone (which is actually what we're supposed to do) but in their hearts, they remain detached in knowledge of the Truth.


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## Harry Haller (Nov 27, 2016)

Sikhilove said:


> Bhagat are societies outcastes, they may look the part and get along with everyone (which is actually what we're supposed to do) but in their hearts, they remain detached in knowledge of the Truth.



any in my view such people do not impart their knowledge, they just act by it


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## Sikhilove (Nov 27, 2016)

Harry Haller said:


> any in my view such people do not impart their knowledge, they just act by it


 
A friend once told me that there was a living sant, a woman, with a heart so stunning. They said you could walk past her on the street and not look twice. 

Another Sant would just have to stand near someone and people would often start crying. People wouldn't even know this person was a sant, the mere Truth presence  would drive people to tears. This person seemed like a regular guy, with the exception that they had an amazing presence. 

Of course they act by their knowledge, but teaching is divine, the Gurus imparted their knowledge to the masses as did other bhagats. We learn from the Greats that came before us.


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