# Sikhism's And Other ISM's



## friend (Apr 15, 2009)

Satsrikal, Salam, Namastey,  Hello, i am new to this forum, As i was replying to some of the threads, i seem to have an arguement on couple of issues. I was told to open a new thread and Disscuss there. I am just a studen of religions, and i don't say i have the knowledge of every scripture of every religion. I am simply learning. and to learn about Sikhism i register to this forum. I have read some of SGGS, and deeply admire Sikhism. But many of the members i talked to have either never read the scriptures of other religions or just looked at today's fallowers to make assumptions about religion. For example, How would a man living in United States know that the women are told cover her head in The Holy Bible. Since, he hadn't seen the women in the United States doing that, he would just assume they are not. So to learn about the religions we should go back to The Main Sources. For example, to learn about Sikhism, one must go back to GURU NANAK DEV ji, since he is the founder of the religion. Learn about Christianity, one should go to bible and Jesus. and to learn about Islam, one should go to Quran and Muhammad.

One of the brothers asked me, 

that muslims bow down to graves, or do sajda to mazaars.

IN ISLAM IT IS TOTALLY PROHIBItED TO SAJDA TO MAZAAR OR bowing down to a grave. EVEN THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD TOLD HIS FALLOWERS TO NOT MAKE HIS GRAVE A PLACE FOR WORSHIP. In Islam, Muslim only does SAJDA TO THE SUPEREME GOD. WHiCH MUSLIMS CALL ALLAH. IF A MUSLIM DOES SAJDA TO A GRAVE OR MAZAAR. HE OR SHE HAS COMMITED A SIN, AND MUST ASK FOR GOD'S FORGIVENESS.


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## dalbirk (Apr 16, 2009)

Friend Ji ,
 My question to u is - Are Sufis a part of Islam or not ? if not then why whole of Indian sub-continent thinks that Sufis & Pirs were great preachers of Islam . This bowing to graves is also attached to the reverence to Sufis I suppose .


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## kds1980 (Apr 16, 2009)

> IN ISLAM IT IS TOTALLY PROHIBItED TO SAJDA TO MAZAAR OR bowing down to a grave. EVEN THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD TOLD HIS FALLOWERS TO NOT MAKE HIS GRAVE A PLACE FOR WORSHIP. In Islam, Muslim only does SAJDA TO THE SUPEREME GOD. WHiCH MUSLIMS CALL ALLAH. IF A MUSLIM DOES SAJDA TO A GRAVE OR MAZAAR. HE OR SHE HAS COMMITED A SIN, AND MUST ASK FOR GOD'S FORGIVENESS.



Dear Friend

Islam is divided in 72 sects but still they follow many things which are quite similar like No idol worship
No pork and beleiving that mohammed is last prophet.we have around 150-200 millions muslims in India
and many muslim clerics.If Muslims really beleive that Sajda is not allowed Then All India personal law board should issue Fatwa and strictly ask muslims not to do sajda


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## Gyani Jarnail Singh (Apr 16, 2009)

I have heard and seen thousands of "Pir Samdhees" Graves in PUNJAB...and Muslims bowing and praying at these GRAVES. In fact there are such Pir Graves in every village and road side...I saw one near a village..Dargah of Pir JHOTTEH SHAH and one more...all types of people were milling around charraing GREEN CHADRS..and stuff.


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## friend (Apr 16, 2009)

dalbirk said:


> Friend Ji ,
> My question to u is - Are Sufis a part of Islam or not ? if not then why whole of Indian sub-continent thinks that Sufis & Pirs were great preachers of Islam . This bowing to graves is also attached to the reverence to Sufis I suppose .


 
dalbirk ji, 

(MY OPINION). SUFIS ARE PART OF ISLAM. Once a person says ( THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD AND PROPHET MUHAMMAD IS HIS MESSANGER), his matters are direct with God. No muslim is to judge his or her Imaan or faith. Sufis as much as i have studied, were great teachers of islam. They didn't make their own quran or didn't call themselfs prophet, but simply told people to fallow the teachings of Prophet Muhammad. Please provide me with a proof of a sufi told his people to worship his graves after he died.


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## friend (Apr 16, 2009)

kds1980 said:


> Dear Friend
> 
> Islam is divided in 72 sects but still they follow many things which are quite similar like No idol worship
> No pork and beleiving that mohammed is last prophet.we have around 150-200 millions muslims in India
> and many muslim clerics.If Muslims really beleive that Sajda is not allowed Then All India personal law board should issue Fatwa and strictly ask muslims not to do sajda


 
Kds1980 ji, 

Islam is divided into many sects, i agree, they are very very simliar. the biggest division in islam is Shia muslim and Sunni Muslim. 
The fallowers of religions these days don't bother reading their scriptures. Muslims don't read Quran, Hindus don't read vedas, Christians don't read Bible, and I AM 100% sure, majority of sikhs have never read SGGS. When a fallower doesn't fallow the original source, he is lost. People are supposed to go to graves, and mazaars to ask for the forgiveness of the person who is dead. IN OTHER MeANING THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO PRAY FOR THE PERSON *NOT* TOOOOOOO THE PERSON. 

O i really think they should make this a law, but be reasonable, who is going to be there to inforce the law. YOu think there is going to be one police man on every grave to make sure no one does sajda on it. It is for the people to learnnnnnnnn their ownnnnn religion and not to fallow the losts. Since doing sajda is an act of worship Quran says . “Worship Allaah and join none with Him (in worship)” [al-Nisa’ 4:36].

One different kind of praying or sajda on graves , Praying the funeral (janaazah) prayer at the graveside, which is permissible. ThiS PRAYEr IS ALSO FOR THE PERsON and To the God. For example, if a person dies and you are not able to offer the funeral prayer for him in the mosque, then it is permissible for you to offer the prayer for him after he is buried.


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## friend (Apr 16, 2009)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:


> I have heard and seen thousands of "Pir Samdhees" Graves in PUNJAB...and Muslims bowing and praying at these GRAVES. In fact there are such Pir Graves in every village and road side...I saw one near a village..Dargah of Pir JHOTTEH SHAH and one more...all types of people were milling around charraing GREEN CHADRS..and stuff.


 
ISLAM IS MISUNDERSTOOOOOOOOD IN MUSLIMS. IT IS SHAME ThAT MUSLIMS THesE DAYS NO NOTHING OR VERY FEW ABOUT ISLAM.


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## kds1980 (Apr 16, 2009)

friend said:


> Kds1980 ji,
> 
> Islam is divided into many sects, i agree, they are very very simliar. the biggest division in islam is Shia muslim and Sunni Muslim.
> The fallowers of religions these days don't bother reading their scriptures. Muslims don't read Quran, Hindus don't read vedas, Christians don't read Bible, and I AM 100% sure, majority of sikhs have never read SGGS. When a fallower doesn't fallow the original source, he is lost. People are supposed to go to graves, and mazaars to ask for the forgiveness of the person who is dead. IN OTHER MeANING THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO PRAY FOR THE PERSON *NOT* TOOOOOOO THE PERSON.
> ...



I agree with you that majority of sikhs have never read Guru granth sahib.But akal takhat
issue's hukamnama's asking sikhs what they should not do.similarly many muslim clerics and maulavi's issue's fatwa when muslims are doing that is against islam.I have yet to hear from any muslim cleric a fatwa for muslims not to worship a grave.

Here is information of one of the most famous dargah

Nizamuddin Dargah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nizamuddin Dargah (Hindi: निज़ामुद्दीन दरगाह) is the mausoleum of one of the world's most famous Sufi saint Nizamuddin Auliya. It is visited daily by thousands of Muslims, and sees a fair share of Hindus, Christians, and people from all religious backgrounds. The tomb of Amir Khusro and Jehan Ara Begum are also located within the Nizamuddin Dargah Complex, and Inayat Khan's is just around the corner [1].

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We all Know muslims are very sensitive about their religion and they can go to any extent
If muslims are doing something against their religion.So its better consult All India personal law board and ask them They should issue strict Fatwa that no muslims should caretake or visit a dargah


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## Archived_member7 (Apr 16, 2009)

I dont mind the sajda ..i mind that they bow before those tombs considering them to be their pirs, those who have looted, killed and plundered ..whether islam prohibits and people still do is not the issue at all...what faith a person has is personal however just as paying jizia to a muslim warlord is a crime so also revering those who lived their life by giving others pain and misery and converted using power is the most henious crime towards humanity


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## friend (Apr 16, 2009)

kds1980 said:


> I agree with you that majority of sikhs have never read Guru granth sahib.But akal takhat
> issue's hukamnama's asking sikhs what they should not do.similarly many muslim clerics and maulavi's issue's fatwa when muslims are doing that is against islam.I have yet to hear from any muslim cleric a fatwa for muslims not to worship a grave.
> 
> Here is information of one of the most famous dargah
> ...


 
You are mixing up many thing. i don't think you read my post very well, Visiting a grave, taking care of grave is different than praying to the person who is in the grave. You are suppose to visit the graves, and make prayer for the person who died, and ask God for his forgiveness. 

PRAYING TO ANYONE BESIDE GOD IS NOT ALLOWED IN ISLAM.
It is the people who have no knowledge about islam, who go to the graves and start asking the Baba who died or whoever to fullfill his or her wishes. 

and also notice these things are only done in India or Pakistan, I am almost 100% sure, that no one would do that in Saudi Arabia. 

and my friend Fatwa is one's opinion on an islamic law. NOW IF THE PROPHET HAD MADE IT SO CLEAR, THAT NO ONE SHOULD WORSHIP THE GRAVES. 

I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANYTHING LEFT, FOR THE MAULVI'S THESE DAYS TO SAY. THE TEACHER OF ISLAM HAD MADE IT CLEAR ENOUGH.. IT IS THE MATTER OF EDUCATING THE PEOPLE.


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## friend (Apr 16, 2009)

rajkhalsa said:


> i dont mind the sajda ..i mind that they bow before those tombs considering them to be their pirs, those who have looted, killed and plundered ..whether islam prohibits and people still do is not the issue at all...what faith a person has is personal however just as paying jizia to a muslim warlord is a crime so also revering those who lived their life by giving others pain and misery and converted using power is the most henious crime towards humanity


 
i have said this many times and will say it again, islam doesn't allow worshiping any grave, no rapists, no drinkers, no sufi's and no prophets. Worship only one god. Quran on many occassions tells the mankind to worship only one god (allah) and not make partners with him.


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## Archived_member7 (Apr 16, 2009)

well if that was the case then why are they hell bent on passing fatwas on salman khan worshipping Ganesha..when this is an important issue ...what is on papers doesnt make much sense unless seen in practice ...you may claim islam to be a loving and peaceful religion ..but are muslims the followers of islam peaceful ???


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## friend (Apr 16, 2009)

rajkhalsa said:


> well if that was the case then why are they hell bent on passing fatwas on salman khan worshipping Ganesha..when this is an important issue ...what is on papers doesnt make much sense unless seen in practice ...you may claim islam to be a loving and peaceful religion ..but are muslims the followers of islam peaceful ???


 
i AM NOT TALKING OF MUSLIMS. I AM SIMPLY TELLING YOU WHAT ISLAM TEACHES. I CAN NAME MANY THINGS THAT SIKHISM DOESN'T TEACH AND SIKHS DO, BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE SIKHISM BAD. DON'T LOOK AT THE FALLOWERS, STUDY THE RELIGION.

BTW WHAT WAS THE FATEA ON SHARUKH KHAN ABOUT.


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## hermanhans (Apr 17, 2009)

FRIEND Ji .To learn about any religion one must read about the founder/s of that religion. My introduction to the founder of Islam came by way of Robert Spencer's 'The Truth about Muhammad '. It was an eye opener.:shock:


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## Archived_member7 (Apr 17, 2009)

The Fatwa on Salman khan was in revenge of him celebrating Ganesh Festival. His mother is a hindu and he is bred on mixed traditions. Hats off to his father who reacted strongly by saying if u feel you do not want to belive he is a muslim then you can assume he is not !

Friend ji i do not bother about if islam says something and the muslims do not follow...because i have never seen practicing muslims as nationalists or faithful to thier nation. I feel as a citizen of the country in which one resides one has to be faithful to it.

My point i repeat is ...doing sajda at the tombs of people who killed and raped is un civilised , barbaric, uncouth and the most wretched thinking and belief of an individual or a community.

Whether you pray 5 times or 10 times ...whether you cover yorself or go around as you were born...whether you worship idols or not ...all such things i belive are personal...MY CONCERN IS AS A HUMAN ARE YOU ACCOMODATING AND RESPECTING OTHER'S EXISTANCE...WHATEVER BE THE BELIEFS OF OTHERS...


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## dalbirk (Apr 18, 2009)

PRAYING TO ANYONE BESIDE GOD IS NOT ALLOWED IN ISLAM.
It is the people who have no knowledge about islam, who go to the graves and start asking the Baba who died or whoever to fullfill his or her wishes. 

and also notice these things are only done in India or Pakistan, I am almost 100% sure, that no one would do that in Saudi Arabia. 

and my friend Fatwa is one's opinion on an islamic law. NOW IF THE PROPHET HAD MADE IT SO CLEAR, THAT NO ONE SHOULD WORSHIP THE GRAVES



Friend Ji ,
           I know  a particular form of Islamic teachings from Saudi Arabia which is known as WAHHABISM or Wahhabi Islam . Any other particular forms or schools of thought from Saudi Arabia u r fimiliar with ?


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