# Is Believing In God Evolutionarily Advantageous?



## Tejwant Singh (Aug 30, 2010)

August 30, 2010                                                                    

 Jesse Bering's mother died of cancer on a  Sunday, in her own bed, at 9 o'clock at night. Bering and his siblings  closed her door and went downstairs, hoping they might somehow get some  sleep.

                     It was a long, hard night, but around 7 a.m., something happened: The wind chimes outside his mother's window started to chime.

                     Bering  remembers waking to the tinkle of these bells, a small but distinct  sound in an otherwise silent house. And he remembers thinking that those  bells carried a very specific message.

                     "It  seemed to me ... that she was somehow telling us that she had made it to  the other side. You know, cleared customs in heaven," Bering says.

                     The  thought surprised him. Bering was a confirmed atheist. He did not  believe in any kind of supernatural anything. He prided himself on being  a scientist, a psychologist who believed only in the measurable  material world. But, he says, he simply couldn't help himself.

                     "My  mind went there. It leapt there," Bering says. "And from a  psychological perspective, this was really interesting to me. Because I  didn't believe it on the one hand, but on the other hand I experienced  it."

                     Why is it, Bering wondered, that even a  determined skeptic could not stop himself from perceiving the  supernatural?  It really bothered him.

                     For  decades, the intellectual descendants of Darwin have pored over ancient  bones and bits of fossils, trying to piece together how fish evolved  into man, theorizing about the evolutionary advantage conferred by each  physical change. And over the past 10 years, a small group of academics  have begun to look at religion in the same way: they've started to look  at God and the supernatural through the lens of evolution.


                                             In the history of the world, every culture in  every location at every point in time has developed some supernatural  belief system. And when a human behavior is so universal, scientists  often argue that it must be an evolutionary adaptation along the lines  of standing upright. That is, something so helpful that the people who  had it thrived, and the people who didn't slowly died out until we were  all left with the trait. But what could be the evolutionary advantage of  believing in God?

                     Bering is one of the  academics who are trying to figure that out. In the years since his  mother's death, Bering has done experiments in his lab at Queens  University, Belfast, in an attempt to understand how belief in the  supernatural might have conferred some advantage and made us into the  species we are today.

                     In one experiment,  children between the ages of 5 and 9 were shown to a room and told to  throw a Velcro ball at a Velcro dartboard. They were told that if they  were able to hit the bull's-eye, they'd get a special prize. But this  particular game had an unusual set of rules: The children were told that  they had to throw from behind, they weren't allowed to throw the ball  while facing the dartboard, and they had to use their nondominant hand —  rules that basically made it impossible for any of the children to win  the game unless they cheated.

                     The children in  the study were divided into three groups. The first group was left  alone and told to play the game as best they could. The second were told  the same, with one difference — the children in the second group were  told that there was someone special who was going to watch them. The  experimenters showed the kids a picture of a very pretty woman — a  character that Bering had made up whose name was Princess Alice.

                     Princess  Alice, the kids were told, had a magical power: Alice could make  herself invisible. Then the children were shown a chair and were told  that Alice was sitting in the chair and that Alice would watch them play  the game after the researcher left. The third group of kids was told to  play the game, but the researcher sat with them and simply never left  the room at all.

                     The question that Bering sought to answer was this: Which group of children was least likely to cheat?

                     The  children in the first group — the completely unsupervised kids — by far  cheated the most. But what was surprising was the behavior of the  second group.

                     The children who were under the  impression that Princess Alice was in the room with them were just as  likely to refrain from cheating as those children who were actually in  the room with a physical real-life human being. A similar study Bering  did with adults showed the same thing — that they were dramatically less  likely to cheat when they thought they were being observed by a  supernatural presence.
 "I've  always said that I don't believe in God, but I don't really believe in  atheists either," Bering says. "Everybody experiences the illusion that  God — or some type of supernatural agent — is watching them or is  concerned about what they do in their sort of private everyday moral  lives."

                     These supernatural agents, Bering  adds, might have very different names. What some call God, others call  Karma. There are literally thousands of names, but according to Bering  they all have the same effect.

                     "Whether it's a  dead ancestor or God, whatever supernatural agent it is, if you think  they're watching you, your behavior is going to be affected," he says.

                     In  fact, Bering says that believing that supernatural beings are watching  you is so basic to being human that even committed atheists regularly  have moments where their minds turn in a supernatural direction, as his  did in the wake of his mother's death.

                     "They  experience it but they reject it," Bering says. "Sort of override or  stomp on their immediate intuition. But that's not to say that they  don't experience it. We all have the same basic brain. And our brains  have evolved to work in a particular way."

                                             Why would the human brain have evolved to work in that way?

                     For  Bering, and some of his friends, the answer to that question has  everything to do with what he discovered in his lab — the way the kids  and adults stopped cheating as soon as they thought a supernatural being  might be watching them. Through the lens of evolution then, a belief in  God serves a very important purpose: Religious belief set us on the  path to modern life by stopping cheaters and promoting the social good.

                     Dominic  Johnson is a professor at the University of Edinburgh in the United  Kingdom and another one of the leaders in this field. And to Johnson,  before you can understand the role religion and the supernatural might  have played in making us the people we are today, you really have to  appreciate just how improbable our modern lives are.

                     Today  we live in a world where perfect strangers are incredibly nice to each  other on a regular basis. All day long, strangers open doors for each  other, repair each other's bodies and cars and washing machines. They  swap money for food and food for money.  In short: they cooperate.

Our brain is capable of observational learning and high-level cognition -- in 3 pounds of jelly.

 This cooperation makes all kinds of things  possible, of course. Because we can cooperate, we can build  sophisticated machines and create whole cities — communities that  require huge amounts of coordination. We can do things that no  individual or small group could do.

                     The question is: How did we get to be so cooperative? For academics like Johnson, this is a profound puzzle.

                     "Explaining  cooperation is a huge cottage industry," Johnson says. "It dominates  the pages of top journals in science and economics and psychology. You  would think that it was very simple, but in fact from a scientific  academic point of view, it just often doesn't make sense."

                     It  doesn't make sense because there's often tension between the interests  of the group and the interests of the individual. Johnson gives an  example. Recently he was on the subway in New York and as he was going  through the turnstile a little child ran in with him and got through the  barrier. He got onto the subway without ever paying.
                                                                                                                Everywhere you  look around the world, you find examples of people altering their  behavior because of concerns for supernatural consequences of their  actions. They don't do things that they consider bad because they think  they'll be punished for it.

  - Dominic Johnson, professor, University of Edinburgh

                                             "Now we only have the Metro if everyone pays,"  Johnson says. "But there's an advantage for everyone if they don't have  to pay themselves."

                     And what's true of the subway is true of everything.

                     Why fight in a war, risk your own death, if someone else will fight it for you? Why pay taxes? Why reduce your carbon footprint?

                     These  all have clear costs, and from an individual perspective, you and your  offspring are much more likely to thrive if you don't get killed in a  war or pay your taxes — if you behave like the child in the subway.

                     The  problem is that even a relatively small number of people who choose to  behave like the child can affect the functioning of the whole.

                     "Even  a few cheats undermine cooperation," Johnson says, because once people  realize that they are paying for the same thing others are enjoying  free, they become less willing to cooperate.

*Punishment And Deterrents: Enforcing God's Law*

                     Today,  if you cheat — if you decide to pass on paying Uncle Sam or if you  steal a car — there are systems in place that will track you down and  punish you. And this threat of punishment keeps you on the straight and  narrow. But imagine if you lived hundreds of thousands of years ago.
                     "We  know that punishment is very effective at promoting cooperation,"  Johnson says. "The problem is: Who punished in the past before we had  police and courts and law and government? There wasn't anyone formally  to carry out the punishment"

                     In those early  human communities when someone did something wrong, someone else in the  small human group would have to punish them. But as Johnson points out,  punishing itself is often dangerous because the person being punished  probably won't like it.

                     "That person has a  family; that person has a memory and is going to develop a grudge,"  Johnson says. "So there are going to be potentially quite disruptive  consequences of people taking the law into their own hands."
                     On  the other hand, Johnson says, if there are Gods or a God who must be  obeyed, these strains are reduced. After all, the punisher isn't a  vigilante; he's simply enforcing God's law.

                     "You  have a very nice situation," Johnson says. "There are no reprisals  against punishers. And the other nice thing about supernatural agents is  that they are often omniscient and omnipresent."

                     If  God is everywhere and sees everything, people curb their selfish  impulses even when there's no one around. Because with God, there is no  escape. "God knows what you did," Johnson says, "and God is going to  punish you for it and that's an incredibly powerful deterrent. If you do  it again, he's going to know and he is going to tally up your good  deals and bad deeds and you will suffer the consequences for it either  in this life or in an afterlife."
*Differing Views*

                     So  the argument goes that as our human ancestors spread around the world  in bands, keeping together for food and protection, groups with a  religious belief system survived better because they worked better  together.
                     We are their descendants. And Johnson says their belief in the supernatural is still very much with us.

                     "Everywhere  you look around the world, you find examples of people altering their  behavior because of concerns for supernatural consequences of their  actions. They don't do things that they consider bad because they think  they'll be punished for it."

                     Of course there  are plenty of criticisms of these ideas. For example one premise of this  argument is that religious belief is beneficial because it helped us to  cooperate. But a small group of academics argue that religious beliefs  have ultimately been more harmful than helpful, because those religious  beliefs inspire people to go to war.

                     And then  there are the people who say that cooperation doesn't come from God —  that cooperation evolved from our need to take care of family or show  potential mates that we were a good choice. The theories are endless.

                     Unfortunately  it's not possible now to rewind the movie, so to speak, and see what  actually happened. So these speculations will remain just that:  speculations.

                     As unknowable — ultimately — as God himself.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129528196


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## Seeker9 (Sep 9, 2010)

Fascinating article...I've never come across this line of argument before..will do some more reading on this


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## ac_marshall (Sep 10, 2010)

Going by the basic principles of science, something cannot be created from nothing. Newton's second law says "Every object continues to remain at rest or uniform motion unless compelled bya Force to act otherwise". Applying these to the subject of evolution, there should be a source from which Universe came to existence. There should be a source that provided energy to the Universe. There should be a source that triggerred evolution and sustained it and still keeps it going. 

That eternal source in my belief is the Almighty (Bismillah, Parabrahm, Akal or whatever name we use to call the eternal creator). 

I'm an Engineer. Looking from the physics point of view my analysis leads me to the above conclusion.


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## gurbanicd (Sep 10, 2010)

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1.  Page463 Line 14  Raag Aasaa: Guru Angad Dev*

ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਭਾਣੈ ਕਢਿ ਲਏ ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਵਿਚਿ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥
*eikanhaa bhaanai kadt leae eikanhaa maaeiaa vich nivaas ||
**Some, by the Pleasure of His Will, are lifted up out of Maya, while others are made to dwell within it.*
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1.  Page110 Line 16  Raag Maajh: Guru Amar Das

ਜਿਸੁ ਆਪਿ ਭੁਲਾਏ ਸੁ ਕਿਥੈ ਹਥੁ ਪਾਏ ॥
jis aap bhulaaeae s kithhai hathh paaeae ||
Those whom the Lord Himself misleads-whose hand can they take?
</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffec><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">2.  Page706 Line 4  Raag Jaitsaree: Guru Arjan Dev

ਜਿਸੁ ਆਪਿ ਬੁਝਾਏ ਸੋ ਬੁਝਸੀ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਜਨੁ ਸੋਈ ॥੧॥
jis aap bujhaaeae so bujhasee niramal jan soee ||1||
He alone understands, whom the Lord Himself instructs; he alone is a pure and unstained being. ||1||
</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffecec><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">3.  Page789 Line 19  Raag Soohee: Guru Nanak Dev

ਜਿਸੁ ਆਪਿ ਬੁਝਾਏ ਸੋ ਬੁਝਸੀ ਜਿਸੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਥਾਪੇ ॥
jis aap bujhaaeae so bujhasee jis sathigur thhaapae ||
He alone understands, whom the Lord Himself causes to understand; he is blessed by the True Guru.
</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffec><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">4.  Page956 Line 18  Raag Raamkalee: Guru Nanak Dev

ਜਿਸੁ ਆਪਿ ਬੁਝਾਏ ਸੋ ਬੁਝਸੀ ਆਪੇ ਨਾਇ ਲਾਈਅਨੁ ॥
jis aap bujhaaeae so bujhasee aapae naae laaeean ||
He alone understands, whom the Lord causes to understand; He Himself attaches mortals to His Name.
</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffecec><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">5.  Page1075 Line 16  Raag Maaroo: Guru Arjan Dev

ਜਿਸੁ ਆਪਿ ਭੁਲਾਏ ਸੋਈ ਭੂਲੈ ਸੋ ਬੂਝੈ ਜਿਸਹਿ ਬੁਝਾਇਦਾ ॥੩॥
jis aap bhulaaeae soee bhoolai so boojhai jisehi bujhaaeidhaa ||3||
He alone is confused, whom the Lord Himself confuses. He alone understands, whom the Lord inspires to understand. ||3||</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>*

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1.  Page5 Line 8  Raag Jap: Guru Nanak Dev*

ਅੰਤ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਬਿਲਲਾਹਿ ॥
*anth kaaran kaethae bilalaahi ||
**Many struggle to know His limits,*
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1.  Page71 Line 15  Raag Sriraag: Guru Nanak Dev*

ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੁਰਗਿ ਮਛਿ ਪਇਆਲਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥
*thaeraa anth n paaeiaa surag mashh paeiaal jeeo ||1||
**Your limits are not known to any of the beings in the heavens, in this world, or in the nether regions of the underworld. ||1||
*</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffec><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">*2.  Page509 Line 2  Raag Goojree Kee Vaar: Guru Amar Das*

ਤਦਹੁ ਆਕਾਸੁ ਨ ਪਾਤਾਲੁ ਹੈ ਨਾ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਲੋਈ ॥
*thadhahu aakaas n paathaal hai naa thrai loee ||
**At that time, there were no Akaashic Ethers, no nether regions, nor the three worlds.
*</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffecec><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">*3.  Page1004 Line 4  Raag Maaroo: Guru Arjan Dev*

ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰਾ ॥
*thaeraa anth n paaraavaaraa ||
**You have no end or limitation.
*</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffec><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">*4.  Page1168 Line 11  Raag Basant: Guru Nanak Dev*

ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਕਹਾ ਪਾਇ ॥
*thaeraa anth n paaeiaa kehaa paae ||
**Your limits cannot be found. How can anyone find them?
*</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffecec><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">*5.  Page1190 Line 13  Raag Basant: Guru Nanak Dev*

ਤੂ ਅਕੁਲ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਪਰਮ ਹੀਰੁ ॥੬॥
*thoo akul niranjan param heer ||6||
**You are the Unknowable, the Immaculate, the most Sublime Jewel. ||6*
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## Simranman1 (Sep 10, 2010)

He alone does EVERYTHING, and continues to do so !


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## eropa234 (Sep 10, 2010)

Seeing is believing: Just because one believes there is a god or not does not change anything there is no reward for believing and no punishment fsor not believing.

A written or a spoken word must me contemplated to find the truth. Guru Bani makes several statement of truth just believing in them would not help anyone unless they are contemplated for understanding. The views of an individual who simply believes and the one who understand are quite different when examined.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Sep 10, 2010)

The response of ac-marshall is really appreciative .I do agree with his point of view.as a matter of fact there is need of understanding the Physics of the CREATOR of this universe.This would enlighten us with the concept of evolution
Prakash.s.Bagga


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## Simranman1 (Sep 10, 2010)

eropa234 said:


> Seeing is believing: Just because one believes there is a god or not does not change anything there is no reward for believing and no punishment fsor not believing.
> 
> A written or a spoken word must me contemplated to find the truth. Guru Bani makes several statement of truth just believing in them would not help anyone unless they are contemplated for understanding. The views of an individual who simply believes and the one who understand are quite different when examined.


 
*1. Belieing (and understanding) should lead to questioning and on to 'SEEING', should you be lucky enough.*

*2. Not believing will lead to re-birth, (In ofcourse the ongoing evolutionary cycles)*

*3. These cycles only end when One Finds and joins with 'The One'.*


*Find the questions, go ask, test, meditate, and may you be lucky enough*
*to FIND !*

*Good Luck.*


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## Sinister (Sep 10, 2010)

NO 

believing in god is not "evolutionarly advantageous"
but it is not a disadvantage either.

can it be argued to be psychological stimulant? arguable as well.

evolution which may lead to the domination of one species, subspecies or breed over another involves two things, 
i) being more fit than the variants from within a species or subspecies classification according to a corresponding natural environment. 
ii) procreating more readily by dominating sexual breeding within your own species.

these are more the results of physical attributes than say memetics (which still has plenty of opponents). 

and even if we were to say that memetics happens (it is real) then we should dwell on the sikh faith further, would it entail that the sikh faith is thus a disadvantage because of all the newer generations that are not sticking to its rehat maryada?

food for thought...the wrecking ball then swings both ways.

evolutionary patterns are the result of the environment changing the species through natural selection not so much the other way around.


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## Simranman1 (Sep 10, 2010)

Sinister said:


> NO
> 
> believing in god is not "evolutionarly advantageous"
> but it is not a disadvantage either.
> ...


 
2 many points and mostly GIBBERISH !
God awareness is advatageous everywhere.
Go ask the SAINTS !

GOOD LUCK !!!!!!!!


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## Sinister (Sep 10, 2010)

sphuling said:


> 2 many points and mostly GIBBERISH !
> God awareness is advatageous everywhere.
> Go ask the SAINTS !
> 
> GOOD LUCK !!!!!!!!


 
ok you think that rebirth is a form of evolutionary cycles? which also entails that you are a product of a past rebirth?

i suspect you haven't a clue of what the modern understanding of evolution is? 

also

how can i have 2 many points and then spew gibberish at the same time? ... syntax is very important in communication... i suggest you learn it

your sentiments of god being advantageous everywhere should be taken to the ruins of the world trade center for tomorrows anniversary.

cheers


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## Simranman1 (Sep 10, 2010)

Sinister said:


> ok you think that rebirth is a form of evolutionary cycles? which also entails that you are a product of a past rebirth?
> 
> i suspect you haven't a clue of what the modern understanding of evolution is?
> 
> ...


God was, God is, God Will be, Every-THING, That includes evolution (Hardware and software) Think about it !


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## Sinister (Sep 10, 2010)

sphuling said:


> God was, God is, God Will be, Every-THING, That includes evolution (Hardware and software) Think about it !


 

that understanding of god i can relate to

but then if everyhting is god why do we have to 'rejoin' with him like you said earlier?

especially if we are already there and we are god.


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## Simranman1 (Sep 10, 2010)

Sinister said:


> that understanding of god i can relate to
> 
> but then if everyhting is god why do we have to 'rejoin' with him like you said earlier?
> 
> especially if we are already there and we are god.


 
Mighty pleasing Sir, to read this missle.
We come from god, god made the game(s), when our qualites match those of god, then those qualites merge.


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## Sinister (Sep 10, 2010)

sphuling said:


> Mighty pleasing Sir, to read this missle.
> We come from god, god made the game(s), when our qualites match those of god, then those qualites merge.


 
what are qualities? are not all qualities of god if god is every-THING?

of you? 

of god?

are they separate? if so why?


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## Simranman1 (Sep 10, 2010)

Sinister said:


> what are qualities?
> 
> of you?
> 
> ...


 
Truth/lies. theif/donator. desire/desireless(fulfilment). anger/pleasant. all are coupled, lots of them, another example, love/hate, notice these are all software, so the body is unimportant, other than to play the games honestly.
The trick is to figure out part of the pair is 'Godliness' (good) and retain, discard all others, those which remain are the reqiured ones.


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## Sinister (Sep 10, 2010)

sphuling said:


> Truth/lies. theif/donator. desire/desireless(fulfilment). anger/pleasant. all are coupled, lots of them, another example, love/hate, notice these are all software, so the body is unimportant, other than to play the games honestly.
> The trick is to figure out part of the pair is 'Godliness' (good) and retain, discard all others, those which remain are the reqiured ones.


 
if every-THING is god then aren't all qualities a part of "godliness"? 

i think you need to think about your position.

GOOD LUCK!!!


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## prakash.s.bagga (Sep 10, 2010)

First off all we must understand the concept of THECREATOR of the Universe based on the scientific principles of Modern PHYSICS of Matter.Then we shall be able to understand the significance of spritual messages related to the conept of THE CREATOR.
This would enable to understand the whole GAMEPLAN of THE CREATOR.If we apply the theory of quantum physics of waves of matter we can have better understanding of THE CREATOR and about the whole process of evolution. 
Prakash.s.bagga


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## seeker3k (Sep 11, 2010)

ac_marshall said:


> Going by the basic principles of science, something cannot be created from nothing. Newton's second law says "Every object continues to remain at rest or uniform motion unless compelled bya Force to act otherwise". Applying these to the subject of evolution, there should be a source from which Universe came to existence. There should be a source that provided energy to the Universe. There should be a source that triggerred evolution and sustained it and still keeps it going.
> 
> That eternal source in my belief is the Almighty (Bismillah, Parabrahm, Akal or whatever name we use to call the eternal creator).
> 
> I'm an Engineer. Looking from the physics point of view my analysis leads me to the above conclusion.


 


The earth we live on is part of this solar system is not bigger then mustard seed in the universe. We have no idea what the whole universe look like. Our mind can not grasp it. Science is trying to understand it but the religious people don’t even want to think about it. It give them comfort that their guru or prophet told them their God is the only God that have created us and the universe. When all these gurus or so called prophets lived there was no concept of universe. The earth was the center of every thing. 
Why do we believe that it was nothing in the beginning?  Or was there begging? 
If there is source as some think then does that source needed to be worshiped as the religious people are worshiping? 
Religion have made of robots, that’s not what we are. We have brain we can analyze matter and our self
It is only by studying science we can be liberated. 
If there is source so be it why waste time on it.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Sep 11, 2010)

Respectable SEEKER3K
I would like to bring to your kind attention that there is absolute clear concept THE CREATOR of the UNIVERSE in Sikh phylosophy.According to this we are supposed to know THE CREATOR of the UNIVERSE thru letter and words only.Just as we have the knowledge about invisible forces in science thru letter and words only .e.gOur knowledge about Gravitational Force is related to the letter "G",and Magnetic Force to the letter 'M" like that.Similarly thru Gurbaani we come to know that the CREATOR of the UNIVERSE is a SYSTEM to be known by the letter and word as EKONKAARU/EKANKAAR.AND the whole UNIVERSE is to be knownas the infinite expansion of this SYSTEM only.This SYSTEM and its MODEOF EXPANSION has been described thru 
DIVINE WORDS which constitutes the basis of real srituality to get oneself connected with this SYSTEM EKANKAARU/EKANKAAR.
THE SYSTEM itself is PLURAL in  its PHYSICS.The source of the SYSTEM is the NON ACTIVE State of the whole matter of the UNIVERSE at time ZERO.

PRAKASH.S.BAGGA


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## Seeker9 (Sep 11, 2010)

Like I said before, very interesting article and question. Having thought about it I would have to say No. I would add that I think Sinister Ji sums it up rather well in an earlier post

The lack of a spiritual focus has not held back development in the animal kingdom...just look at whales which as a species have been swimming around for 50 million+ years. Their evolution has been just fine....sadly the only sustained threat to them has been us supposedly civilised and evolved humans

Had the question been in terms of social development and civilisation then my answer would have been a resounding yes

Good article though and I have enjoyed the subsequent discussion ​


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## Seeker9 (Sep 11, 2010)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> Respectable SEEKER3K
> I would like to bring to your kind attention that there is absolute clear concept THE CREATOR of the UNIVERSE in Sikh phylosophy.According to this we are supposed to know THE CREATOR of the UNIVERSE thru letter and words only.Just as we have the knowledge about invisible forces in science thru letter and words only .e.gOur knowledge about Gravitational Force is related to the letter "G",and Magnetic Force to the letter 'M" like that.Similarly thru Gurbaani we come to know that the CREATOR of the UNIVERSE is a SYSTEM to be known by the letter and word as EKONKAARU/EKANKAAR.AND the whole UNIVERSE is to be knownas the infinite expansion of this SYSTEM only.This SYSTEM and its MODEOF EXPANSION has been described thru
> DIVINE WORDS which constitutes the basis of real srituality to get oneself connected with this SYSTEM EKANKAARU/EKANKAAR.
> THE SYSTEM itself is PLURAL in  its PHYSICS.The source of the SYSTEM is the NON ACTIVE State of the whole matter of the UNIVERSE at time ZERO.
> ...




There have been some fine posts on this thread including this one

But I wonder if I could respectfully ask everyone to consider the question in the title of this thread..i.e is BELIEF in God Evolutionarily Advantageous

There have been a number of posts that consider the role of God in the evolutionary process but I think the question being asked is different

What do others think?

And what would your answers be to the specific question?


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## spnadmin (Sep 11, 2010)

Seeker9 said:


> There have been some fine posts on this thread including this one
> 
> But I wonder if I could respectfully ask everyone to consider the question in the title of this thread..i.e is BELIEF in God Evolutionarily Advantageous
> 
> ...



Seeker ji

I agree. We have gone off into quantum physics and theories of evolution. Which was extensively reviewed on threads related to the existence of God. The title of this thread has a decidedly different intent judging from the starter article. The core issues are cultural and psychological and yes the discussion has drifted.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Sep 11, 2010)

Respectable SEEKER 9 Ji
Belief in any concept should have the base of  correct knowledge about the concept itself otherwise the belief would not take place.So belief is outcome of the correct knowledge.In this respect the contents all SPN;s are useful.
PRAKASH.S.BAGGA


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## consciousness (Sep 12, 2010)

The Famous Physicist Stephen Hawkins, in his latest book; The Grand Design; has said that God had no intervention in the creation of the Universe. In other words, God did not create the Universe. "Because there is a law such as Gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing."


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## consciousness (Sep 12, 2010)

I  fully agree with Sinister 9 and Seeker. But if we don't analyze and disect the question, and don't consider the misguided people who kill others in the name of God, I would have to say that Believing in God helps in the Evolution of the Soul.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Sep 12, 2010)

Respectable Consciousness Ji
Fully agree with the view presented by your good self.You have rightly comprehended the contents of mysubject.Many many thanks

Prakash.s.Bagga


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## Seeker9 (Sep 12, 2010)

Gentlemen
I do see your point of view and appreciate the posts you have made
I was just trying to return to the actual question in the thread title, that was all


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## prakash.s.bagga (Sep 12, 2010)

RESPECTABLE CONSCIOUSNESS JI

I appreciate your respone in the matter.

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## consciousness (Sep 12, 2010)

prakash.s.bagga said:


> RESPECTABLE CONSCIOUSNESS JI
> 
> I appreciate your respone in the matter.
> 
> Prakash.S.Bagga


 Sir Bagga Ji, I think you are right in saying that in order to believe in something , first we must understand it .


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