# More Burning Question From Das



## vijaydeep Singh (Feb 14, 2005)

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Das this time is going to write a few more question and his own subjective opinion.And perhaps if some like Talwara sahib read it then there could be compalaint of Das in higher Sikh aouthoritis.

But since das is from Nirmala side.There we are suppose to preach Sikhism to others and others do ask us question.And Gurmat is capble to answer all questions. So das is rising them.Das is observing a starange thing that there is very much similarity in the views of Say Sanatan Sikhs and Learned Sikhs of sgpc Maryada.Das keeps on asking these question that in case some Sikhs ask him then that person must be told valid as per sgpc and not by Nirmala idealogy but when das reads views from Gyani Sahib or Amarpal singh Ji then it is found that both are having a bit similar views.(Das here is talking about Nirmalas working in Areas away from Punjab and not what nanaksar type person perhaps may say).

Coming back Das is starting  a few questions

Why should not we throw our hairs in dustbin when they are detched from body while doing Kangha.Why should they be burnt or put in water or buryed.Hairs are part of Body so if nails,or say spotum can be put in dustbin then why not hairs ?

Then again Das is touching KIrpan issue,Why should one be cutting his hand if he brings Kirpan out side just like that.It is a ritual in Rajpoots but from where this hindu culture come into us ? Why can we use our own Kirpan to practice Martial Arts or say in case in Langer we are unable to unlid a bottale then why cannot we use our Kirpan to open it if there is no other option better then it with us? In Jungle say if we are in some exsercise and Kirpan often is a better help then knife in many time why can we use it?

Why can not the Karra be removed when say we are fighting a Karate or Tai Kwan do Match or say wrestling ? And if removed why should we keep it near our Body ?

Likewise in wrestling often we wear Langot(a sort of supporter) an as per rule that only be on our body ,So Should we stop going for it as during it we may have to remove all Ks but Hairs temporaryly(We can wear as organiser do not object but with other 4 ks if we fight then we can injure the opponent ?So could we say that wearing Kachhcera duing wresting can lead to its torning?

Likewise why should not we talk if there is an emergency while we are doing Patth(including Akhand Patth) or Kirtan among other things.And what is the use of Akhand Path if actual person who is orgaioonising it is neither listening nor reading?Das find that just by letting it happen as a ritual is useless is das correct?

Das again is touching keski issuemwrU mhlw 5 ] (1083-13)
maaroo mehlaa 5.
Maaroo, Fifth Mehl:

Alh Agm KudweI bMdy ] (1083-13, mwrU, mÚ 5)
alah agam khudaa-ee banday.
O slave of the inaccessible Lord God Allah,

Coif iKAwl dunIAw ky DMDy ] (1083-14, mwrU, mÚ 5)
chhod khi-aal dunee-aa kay DhanDhay.
forsake thoughts of worldly entanglements.

hoie pY Kwk PkIr muswPru iehu drvysu kbUlu drw ]1] (1083-14, mwrU, mÚ 5)
ho-ay pai khaak fakeer musaafar ih darvays kabool daraa. ||1||
Become the dust of the feet of the humble fakeers, and consider yourself a traveller on this journey. O saintly dervish, you shall be approved in the Court of the Lord. ||1||

scu invwj XkIn muslw ] (1083-14, mwrU, mÚ 5)
sach nivaaj yakeen muslaa.
Let Truth be your prayer, and faith your prayer-mat.

mnsw mwir invwirhu Awsw ] (1083-15, mwrU, mÚ 5)
mansaa maar nivaarihu aasaa.
Subdue your desires, and overcome your hopes.

dyh msIiq mnu maulwxw klm KudweI pwku Krw ]2] (1083-15, mwrU, mÚ 5)
dayh maseet man ma-ulaanaa kalam khudaa-ee paak kharaa. ||2||
Let your body be the mosque, and your mind the priest. Let true purity be God's Word for you. ||2||

srw srIAiq ly kMmwvhu ] (1083-16, mwrU, mÚ 5)
saraa saree-at lay kammaavahu.
Let your practice be to live the spiritual life.

qrIkiq qrk Koij tolwvhu ] (1083-16, mwrU, mÚ 5)
tareekat tarak khoj tolaavahu.
Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God.

mwrPiq mnu mwrhu Abdwlw imlhu hkIkiq ijqu iPir n mrw ]3] (1083-16, mwrU, mÚ 5)
maarfat man maarahu abdaalaa milhu hakeekat jit fir na maraa. ||3||
Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again. ||3||

kurwxu kqyb idl mwih kmwhI ] (1083-17, mwrU, mÚ 5)
kuraan katayb dil maahi kamaahee.
Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible;

ds Aaurwq rKhu bd rwhI ] (1083-17, mwrU, mÚ 5)
das a-uraat rakhahu bad raahee.
restrain the ten sensory organs from straying into evil.

pMc mrd isdik ly bwDhu KYir sbUrI kbUl prw ]4] (1083-18, mwrU, mÚ 5)
panch marad sidak lay baaDhhu khair sabooree kabool paraa. ||4||
Tie up the five demons of desire with faith, charity and contentment, and you shall be acceptable. ||4||

mkw imhr rojw pY Kwkw ] (1083-18, mwrU, mÚ 5)
makaa mihar rojaa pai khaakaa.
Let compassion be your Mecca, and the dust of the feet of the holy your fast.

iBsqu pIr lPj kmwie AMdwjw ] (1083-19, mwrU, mÚ 5)
bhisat peer lafaj kamaa-ay andaajaa.
Let Paradise be your practice of the Prophet's Word.

hUr nUr musku KudwieAw bMdgI Alh Awlw hujrw ]5] (1083-19, mwrU, mÚ 5)
hoor noor musak khudaa-i-aa bandagee alah aalaa hujraa. ||5||
God is the beauty, the light and the fragrance. Meditation on Allah is the secluded meditation chamber. ||5||

scu kmwvY soeI kwjI ] (1084-1, mwrU, mÚ 5)
sach kamaavai so-ee kaajee.
He alone is a Qazi, who practices the Truth.

jo idlu soDY soeI hwjI ] (1084-1, mwrU, mÚ 5)
jo dil soDhai so-ee haajee.
He alone is a Haji, a pilgrim to Mecca, who purifies his heart.

so mulw mlaUn invwrY so drvysu ijsu isPiq Drw ]6] (1084-1, mwrU, mÚ 5)
so mulaa mala-oon nivaarai so darvays jis sifat Dharaa. ||6||
He alone is a Mullah, who banishes evil; he alone is a saintly dervish, who takes the Support of the Lord's Praise. ||6||

sBy vKq sBy kir vylw ] Kwlku Xwid idlY mih maulw ] (1084-2, mwrU, mÚ 5)
sabhay vakhat sabhay kar vaylaa. khaalak yaad dilai meh ma-ulaa.
Always, at every moment, remember God, the Creator within your heart.

qsbI Xwid krhu ds mrdnu suMniq sIlu bMDwin brw ]7] (1084-2, mwrU, mÚ 5)
tasbee yaad karahu das mardan sunat seel banDhaan baraa. ||7||
Let your meditation beads be the subjugation of the ten senses. Let good conduct and self-restraint be your circumcision. ||7||

idl mih jwnhu sB iPlhwlw ] (1084-3, mwrU, mÚ 5)
dil meh jaanhu sabh filhaalaa.
You must know in your heart that everything is temporary.

iKlKwnw ibrwdr hmU jMjwlw ] (1084-3, mwrU, mÚ 5)
khilkhaanaa biraadar hamoo janjaalaa.
Family, household and siblings are all entanglements.

mIr mlk aumry PwnwieAw eyk mukwm Kudwie drw ]8] (1084-4, mwrU, mÚ 5)
meer malak umray faanaa-i-aa ayk mukaam khudaa-ay daraa. ||8||
Kings, rulers and nobles are mortal and transitory; only God's Gate is the permanent place. ||8||

Avil isPiq dUjI swbUrI ] (1084-4, mwrU, mÚ 5)
aval sifat doojee saabooree.
First, is the Lord's Praise; second, contentment;

qIjY hlymI cauQY KYrI ] (1084-5, mwrU, mÚ 5)
teejai halaymee cha-uthai khairee.
third, humility, and fourth, giving to charities.

pMjvY pMjy iekqu mukwmY eyih pMij vKq qyry Aprprw ]9] (1084-5, mwrU, mÚ 5)
punjvai panjay ikat mukaamai ayhi panj vakhat tayray aparparaa. ||9||
Fifth is to hold one's desires in restraint. These are the five most sublime daily prayers. ||9||

sglI jwin krhu maudIPw ] (1084-6, mwrU, mÚ 5)
saglee jaan karahu ma-udeefaa.
Let your daily worship be the knowledge that God is everywhere.

bd Aml Coif krhu hiQ kUjw ] (1084-6, mwrU, mÚ 5)
bad amal chhod karahu hath koojaa.
Let renunciation of evil actions be the water-jug you carry.

Kudwie eyku buiJ dyvhu bWgW burgU brKurdwr Krw ]10] (1084-6, mwrU, mÚ 5)
khudaa-ay ayk bujh dayvhu baaNgaaN burgoo barkhurdaar kharaa. ||10||
Let realization of the One Lord God be your call to prayer; be a good child of God - let this be your trumpet. ||10||

hku hlwlu bKorhu Kwxw ] (1084-7, mwrU, mÚ 5)
hak halaal bakhorahu khaanaa.
Let what is earned righteously be your blessed food.

idl drIAwau Dovhu mYlwxw ] (1084-7, mwrU, mÚ 5)
dil daree-aa-o Dhovahu mailaanaa.
Wash away pollution with the river of your heart.

pIru pCwxY iBsqI soeI AjrweIlu n doj Trw ]11] (1084-7, mwrU, mÚ 5)
peer pachhaanai bhistee so-ee ajraa-eel na doj tharaa. ||11||
One who realizes the Prophet attains heaven. Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death, does not cast him into hell. ||11||

kwieAw ikrdwr Aaurq XkInw ] (1084-8, mwrU, mÚ 5)
kaa-i-aa kirdaar a-urat yakeenaa.
Let good deeds be your body, and faith your bride.

rMg qmwsy mwix hkInw ] (1084-8, mwrU, mÚ 5)
rang tamaasay maan hakeenaa.
Play and enjoy the Lord's love and delight.

nwpwk pwku kir hdUir hdIsw swbq sUriq dsqwr isrw ]12] (1084-9, mwrU, mÚ 5)
naapaak paak kar hadoor hadeesaa saabat soorat dastaar siraa. ||12||
Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. ||12||

muslmwxu mom idil hovY ] (1084-9, mwrU, mÚ 5)
musalmaan mom dil hovai.
To be Muslim is to be kind-hearted,

AMqr kI mlu idl qy DovY ] (1084-10, mwrU, mÚ 5)
antar kee mal dil tay Dhovai.
and wash away pollution from within the heart.

dunIAw rMg n AwvY nyVY ijau kusm pwtu iGau pwku hrw ]13] (1084-10, mwrU, mÚ 5)
dunee-aa rang na aavai nayrhai ji-o kusam paat ghi-o paak haraa. ||13||
He does not even approach worldly pleasures; he is pure, like flowers, silk, ghee and the deer-skin. ||13||

jw kau imhr imhr imhrvwnw ] (1084-11, mwrU, mÚ 5)
jaa ka-o mihar mihar miharvaanaa.
One who is blessed with the mercy and compassion of the Merciful Lord,

soeI mrdu mrdu mrdwnw ] (1084-11, mwrU, mÚ 5)
so-ee marad marad mardaanaa.
is the manliest man among men.

soeI syKu mswieku hwjI so bMdw ijsu njir nrw ]14] (1084-11, mwrU, mÚ 5)
so-ee saykh masaa-ik haajee so bandaa jis najar naraa. ||14||
He alone is a Shaykh, a preacher, a Haji, and he alone is God's slave, who is blessed with God's Grace. ||14||

kudriq kwdr krx krImw ] (1084-12, mwrU, mÚ 5)
kudrat kaadar karan kareemaa.
The Creator Lord has Creative Power; the Merciful Lord has Mercy.

isPiq muhbiq AQwh rhImw ] (1084-12, mwrU, mÚ 5)
sifat muhabat athaah raheemaa.
The Praises and the Love of the Merciful Lord are unfathomable.

hku hukmu scu KudwieAw buiJ nwnk bMid Klws qrw ]15]3]12] (1084-13, mwrU, mÚ 5)
hak hukam sach khudaa-i-aa bujh naanak band khalaas taraa. ||15||3||12||
Realize the True Hukam, the Command of the Lord, O Nanak; you shall be released from bondage, and carried across. ||15||3||12||


herr we have term Sabat Surat Dastar Sirra,

Das was well aware of his old faith when he started to wear Dastar sorry Turban because Dastar/dasti is patka type thing worn by Muslim especially if they go to attend funernal or say Jiarat(visitng saints).Ghazis(holy warrier) and Saints of Islam wear it often as they are ready to face death.

So Singh are also saint soldiers.But if Das is not forgootan that in end of Dasham Granth Ji there is a maryada given by Guru.Tenth Guru said that this Maryada is not averce to old tradtions.This proves that perrior Gurus also had 5ks(That Maryada is agrred as undoubtlabley by Guru by most of the missionaries also with whom das has talked) So 5ks and 4 Hs to be descarded. ie Huqqa(Huble buble),Hazamat(Sahving) Halal(Meat with Qalma read while killing) o('is' in this context else it is used for 'and') Haram(forbbiddan)

and at last applying hina(may be all sort of dye) on beard is like blakening of face.

So may be put the desire to apply hinna should be undone we can have female wear Keski,To avoid wearing Hat in services it is good for them to wear keski(Das has read the Rahit Nammah of bhai Daya Singh Ji,which prohibits Sikhs to wear cap,It states that Sikh must keep head covered and also state Sikh must not apply (musturd) oil on hairs, But Das thinks that only that portion are read and not the rest like Sikh must apply milk butter on hair and not oil This must mean that when both are with Sikh then preference must be for milk then oil so could be in otheer cases).


Coming Back to the point of Keski,Das has many freind better then brothers who support turban for women.Das even agree that idealy Sikh lady must wear Turban BUT then das is coming back to attack ritualism that if Sikh lady does not wear turban She is NOT a Sikh and those who opposed Turban as must for Sikh lady were agent of Arya Samaj during the time of Rahit Maryada formulation may be supporter of Ragmala were the same.Instead of answering question this passing of Buck.

A whole lot of time which could be spent to preach about Akal,About Gurmat is wasted to teach sisters why should they wear Keski or why should not hairs be trimmed or why baptism is essential but in  the time preachers are themselves lost.Some say it started by Tenth master and we are Sikh of them and there Maryayda was unlike that of First Master(in fact Sikhs of first master were without 5ks,This thing is wrong as Das has seen Kirpan of First Master at Patna Sahib,obtained from a Pandit from Nanak Dehi Orrisa,who use to worship it since generations(He was a Brahmin so he was justified to do Brahmnaical task but at Patna Sahib it is muesum).

So What First Master Said so was Tenth and Sikh has to be of one Gurbani Guru or Gurubar Akal.It is wrong that in first form Guru could not do what he did in Tenth form.He was capalbe to do all but he did not show miracle or else people would have started to worship him in personal.(Das is sorry that even some missionaries and his own Nirmalas do Ardas(Prayer) to Guru Nanak Dev Ji(A wave of sea) and not Akal(sea itself))   .

Das was told to not to intervine when preaching is done so he did not interwined. As purpose of preaching is good.BUT is fundamental of Gurmat with those preacher is OK,Can Das bring Hindu or Muslims childern to such preaching ? No one is happy to listen to wizardy that to mr X room Guru Gobind Singh Ji came in dream or in vision(Das can give many such personal expirance) But it is avoiding logical answer only people restore to wizardy another reson could be encoded Messages(Das will discuss it in Dasham Granth area).

It is good to keep 5ks,a turban and even das inspite of being beef and pork 
eater consider vegitarian Sikhs better then himself.BUT what is the use of amrit Sanskar or 5ks or turban if Gurmat is not understood.Das can say that if Gurmat is described to all other understands the glory of Akal even non Sikh will take Amrit.(Nirmalas also do not force anyone or coax anyone to take Amrit more force is done to Nam Simaram(remebering Akal),Vidya Arjan(taking knowledge) and doiong seva(service which could be in field attached to Dera where vegitables etc . are grown or even in making medicine of Aryur Veda as Gurudev sent 5 guys to learn all the arts which was under the control of Brahmin caste like teaching,medicine,Asrtonomy(to fix dates for Vikrami Samvat) and to preach Sikhi in Pandits and Brahmins themselves as Guru wanted all to unite in one caste of Khalsa then being divided and thence defeated)

Das is sorry that he again went off the course.  So Das wants to ask all those frind who say that in Sachkhand there are female Sikhs moving wearing keski only and Guru is sitting there(This is as per das capacity appears to be some other Khand maybe kalpana khand or may be illusion khand made by maya.

So if by waering Keski female appears to be eqaul to man then why not as Gyani Ji already said that,Female folk also be told not to wear Payjama but reamin in Kachhera only as male do(Das has a freind who even say that it is bad to wear trousers or Payjama as they may touch soil of land and when we sit to read Adi Guru Darbar,Our dress is unfit for that so better is to wear Kachhera only ,So that means that female must not to Path or Vak of Guru Granth Ji? Similar situation was brought to hindus in Kapal Mochan by Tenth master (see Triya Cahritar perhaps of Dasham Guru Darbar))

So whom to belive? Akal is in mud so what happen if that touches or reraches Adi Guru Darbar,Perhaps we may not breath towards our face there?
Is this not moving to ritualism and off the spritualism?

Then female often cover the chest part with Chunni so why not male does the same as we are trying to prove by ritual that Male and female are eqaul in Panth.Why not male also keep Chunni(some do keep Palla but it is in neck and not on chest) ?

Das here want to say that Nector of Sabre is good for Female but where is it written by Gurudev that head be covered always, say what to do while bathing while washing hairs? And one more thing say das has gone some wear with one Kachhera and then it haappens that he has to stay there for a night.Then how can das take Bath,Can he reomve his Kachhera and retake it after bathing or shall he take bath with it and then keep the wet one in a bag and move without Kachhera or can he keep on wearing wet Kachhera?And while changing Kachhera why can not remove one then wear another unlike dooing both the work simulatainously?

Then last thing,Guru is known for covering naked or one who do Parde Kajjana but why can not Gurus(Adi Guru Darbar) Roomalas be burnt after being used instead of being given to poors and needy for cloathing or bedding?What is wrong in that?What is the logic anyway to cover Guru with blanket in winter ? And some person is Punjab is knowen to warp Adi Guru Darbar in plastic sheet and bathing it in water.

Das is interseted to know that is all this coorect and if all this is in Sikhism then where Arya Samajis or Brahmanical ritualitcs are wrong they use to do the same?Is not our Sikhi getting trapped into the swamp of ritualism?

Das wants to views of all of the members from young one like Bhai Arvind Singh Ji,Aman Singh Ji,Drkhalsa Ji,Sikh Ji, among others to learned People like Tejwant Singh Ji,Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji,Amarpal Singh Ji,Bhai Amritpal Singh Ji,Sister Prabjot Kaur Ji among other.

Akal bless and at last Das want to say his own opinion,Rituals do give an outward proof to inward sprituality,Guru wants to follow Guru,So without question or doubt we go by Gurus way and worship Akal and as proof to word that we follow Guru we keep Rahit of 5ks and and 4 hs but what should be done when ritualism try to undo spritualism.
Akal Bless.


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## drkhalsa (Feb 14, 2005)

dear Vijaydeep

i will write what I understand and believe 

about Kacheera 
You can remove it frome body and have bath and I think we can use Boxers( long shorts readly available everywhere not like kacheera available at only some places) instead of it is just symbolic and nothing magical about it that you can part with it yes some people think so but this is Akal will and only he can change their mind and no argument can help 

About Kirpan 

Offcourse we can use it for any thing we like ( mechanical and I would also like to buy some designer decorated Kirpan as it looks nice when you wear it 
about people who think it to be scared and cant be used for menial jobs Akal only can help
 About the issue of females 
offcourse equality is needed but that should equlity of ideology  not physical 
akal has made both sex different then offcourse it has some meaning 
personally i lke women wearing dastaar but absolutely it is matter of choice and can be used as a criteria for measuring individuals devotion to Akal 
This even applies to males I see no difference in Mona( with hair cut ) peoples having devotion to Akal and amritdhari sikh with same devotion Akal is not bound by anything including Sikhi principles .  
I think it is a blessing for somebody to follow sikhi and you cant expect it from everybody 
 now the matter of wrestling and sports I think we are feree to adjust according to rules and offcourse remove K's temporarly 
if religion bounds you to do normal activities ( like sports)and put you in a prison better not to follow it as it is obviously wrong because Sikhi is about freedom 


About the kes after Kanga 
it should discarded as other household waste as it is dead tissue and we shed our dead tissue unknowingly each and every moment of day ( SKIN) then why not Hair 
Writing all this makes me Sick as these are so obvious things and many sikhs have made issue of it and wasting their precious life in ritualism . Again Akal Purakh is the only guide for all of us 

I cant really understand what these things actually means Not applying Heena Not applying mustard this and that i dont believe in them they appear to me as ritualism similar to Bhramnical  rituals . I find it very very difficult to believe that these thigs were said by Dasam Patshahi . 
but still I pray to Akal for guidance for future and till then I dont believe in them

Abou the Guru Granth Sahib

Now forgive me if it offends any body 
what I believe is Guru Granth Sahib Just merely remains a Big Book Until unless try to understand its message and try to follow its divine message 
So what I mean is for example 
we go to Gurudwara and 10 peoples are in Hazoori of Guruji and among them only one is realy interested in interacting with the divine message written in it and all others are just showing their utmost respect by bowing down sitting attentively , taking care of cleaniness clthes and ......many things like that 
what I think is the same One copy of guru granth sahib is acting as Guru to one person and at the same time it is mere Big Book for other 9 

It is human intelect that makes the pages of SGGS divine when it tries to understand it not the physical nature of the Book 

I never knew that used rumals are burnt and now i think is it is one of the most foolish thing that Sikhs do and it is 100% ritual 
It should be given to poor peoples and I cant think of better use of it 

I do believe that true devotion and longing for akal may result in some outward expression which may seems like ritual while they are not But these days most of the time we are trying to copy others and getting into swamp of ritualism and loosing true devotion

May Akal Purakh Bless us all and show us the true way 

Jatinder singh


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## simpy (Aug 18, 2006)

drkhalsa said:
			
		

> dear Vijaydeep
> 
> i will write what I understand and believe
> 
> ...


 
*Respected Jatinder Singh Ji,*

*i pray everybody can understand this instead of loosing their valuable time in the rituals, do the right thing, develop unconditinal love for Akaal Purkh and His Creation, devotion for Guru, try to Live Bani......*

*TIME IS RUNNING OUT OF OUR GRIP BY EVERY SECOND*

*Guru Mere Sang Sadaa Hai Naaleay*


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## roopsidhu (Sep 6, 2006)

SSA to everyone
Yes its right, The ritualism is on the peak and it has taken over the spirtualism. Sikhism has taken a U-turn towards hindu ritualism.
This ritualism is carrying us away from the exact theme of gurbani. The main theme of gurbani is to Pray and come closer to god almighty via the shortest possible route ( gurbani) but the  unfortunatly  we have entered the chakarview (maize) of ritualisim.
Lets start acting as its taught by gurbani otherwise the coming generations will laugh on us


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## Panannto (Dec 15, 2006)

*I like this...*

Hey People! This is very nice site!!! Forever Rules!


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## Archived_Member_19 (Dec 16, 2006)

jatnider ji, vijaydeep ji

very thought provoking discussion


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## agyanisingh (Dec 25, 2006)

yes... Sikhism is taking U-turn towards rituals of Hinduism. We better need to understand rather than following blindly or forcefully. Without telling the truth or the logic of K's we tell our kids that it is something related to GOD which is not true. 5 K's are part of dress code of Khalsa conceived by Guru Gobind Singh. This was the need to give Unique Identity to the Sikhs. and it is good too. but we should tell our future generations that it is not related to GOD. Only by keeping hair one should not be Sikh. So, the true logic should be told that in future this question would not arise.


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