# Can You Expalin What Is Happening In This Video?



## BlazinSikh (Oct 29, 2012)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ka Fateh, 

The Question say it all here is the video link:

Fake Religion ( Sikhism) - YouTube 

Please explain what in waheguru name is going on?



Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ka Fateh.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 29, 2012)

What explanation does this vedio require?

What is going on is self explanatory.?

Prakash.s.Bagga


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## TigerStyleZ (Oct 29, 2012)

What do you want to hear? They are doing Jhatka for Thilak.  This is Hazoor Sahib, where they serve it as "Maahaa Parshaad".  Everything is obvious, just the title is misleading!  You want to rise the "meat issue" ? There is always a thread labelld "Fools who wranlge over flesh", just search for it in the engine.  This is a Nihang practice.


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## BlazinSikh (Oct 29, 2012)

TigerStyleZ ji and Prakash.s.Bagga ji, Thank you for replying. 

As i am still studying sikhi, this practise and video was very new to me, i had just discovered this video today to be honest. By briefly explaing what the nihangs were doing i was able to do a lil reseach my self, so thank you. 

However this practise does raise some question for me: 
1) What is the purpose of doing "Jhatka for Thilak"?

2) In Sikhism we are told that rituals like these are useless, to me doing "Jhatka for Thilak" is like a useless ritual/practise. So why do nihangs do these rituals/practise?


P.S


TigerStyleZ said:


> You want to rise the "meat issue" ? There is always a thread labelld "Fools who wranlge over flesh", just search for it in the engine.  This is a Nihang practice.



I did/do not want to "rise the "meat issue""


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## TigerStyleZ (Oct 29, 2012)

Yes, you are right, there are no rituals in Sikhi, i recommend you to visit.

http://www.sikhs.org

or 
http://www.nihangsingh.org/website/trad-jhatka.html

and please refer to the post "fools who wrangle over flesh", because many things were discussed there as well. You can rise the meat issue, if you want.  There is nothing wrong in questioning. ( I am telling this to you because of my experience.) 


hope some other members can help as well.


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## kds1980 (Oct 29, 2012)

BlazinSikh said:


> TigerStyleZ ji and Prakash.s.Bagga ji, Thank you for replying.
> 
> As i am still studying sikhi, this practise and video was very new to me, i had just discovered this video today to be honest. By briefly explaing what the nihangs were doing i was able to do a lil reseach my self, so thank you.
> 
> ...



Lol Sikhs are already doing lot of meaningless rituals.E.G AKJ amritdharis don't eat food cooked by others in the name of rehat  nobody question them


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## BhagatSingh (Oct 29, 2012)

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh
Read In the Master's Presence, the Sikhs of Hazoor Sahib Vol 1. That book explains what is happening here.

Tilak in general, outside of tilak on weapons has been done for a long time.
Guru Arjan GurGaddi | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## Luckysingh (Oct 29, 2012)

Good responses!!
It does come as a little shock to some at first, but then you have more reason to learn as well.
:noticekudi:I was just standing back to let everyone else respond first until someone tried to blame the Dasam granth!!!.lolpeacesignlol


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## Kanwaljit.Singh (Oct 30, 2012)

On some other thread people are questioning if Muslims should kill goats for Eid


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## Ambarsaria (Oct 30, 2012)

Kanwaljit Singh ji thanks for your post.





Kanwaljit Singh said:


> On some other thread people are questioning if Muslims should kill goats for Eid


I don't think this is sacrificial.  The food will be consumed.  Doing it the way these guys have organized the Jhatka probably keeps the crowd and others from being bothersome.  The meat I am sure gets consumed and I am sure the arrows don't absorb any blood as they will be pretty fat by now  :sippingcoffeemunda:.

The other issue we need to recognize is that "Sikhi" must be allowed or encouraged to grow from inside out.  This allows for tolerance and personal growth.  In this case perhaps the participants have not latched on to all aspects of Guru ji's teachings.  I wonder if all of us have!  So I think one needs to take such in stride while encouraging good.  

Jhatka probably pre-dates any organized religion that we know of today though forms and styles may be different.

Sat Sri Akal.


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## Kanwaljit.Singh (Oct 30, 2012)

The same is done with Eid meat too I guess. The idea is giving animal butchering a religious twist. This Jhatka was done on the premises of Hazur Sahib.

I was with Hazoori Sikhs for much time but avoided this argument anyhow.


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## prakash.s.bagga (Oct 31, 2012)

I Think it may be worth considering such a ritual as SYMBOLIC reminder for the fact that even killing requires approval of the CREATOR.

Prakash.s.Bagga


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## BlazinSikh (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks you for your replies sangant, 

TigerStylez Ji, Thanks for the link, i've read it not fully but briefly to get the understanding of doing Jhatka, but i will read it fully later on. 

BhagatSingh cheer's for the book reccommendation i will definetly purchase it, i would be very greatfull if there are any book on sikh history that you can reccommend for me?

kds1980, i know that some sikh practise certain ritual, like the fanning of the SGGS, but these "ritual" are more to show love and respect to the SGGS, rather than doing it because some so called Gyiani tell us to do it. Most of these "ritual" are done from love, but doing Jhatka to me is just a stupid "ritual" (forgive me if i offend anyone), what i mean is that fine if Jhatka is something Nihangs do then fine, but why on Hazoor Sahib, such a holy place with a blood of an innocent animal, i mean not even muslims conduct Halal at a mosque, so why Hazoor sahib.:whatzpointkudi:

Luckysingh, your post quite intrigues me

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> [/FONT]I was just standing back to let everyone else respond first until someone tried to blame the Dasam granth!!!.



I mean what respones would anyone make blaming the Dasam Granth? peacesignkaur

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh
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## Randip Singh (Oct 31, 2012)

Let me tackle this issue:

*Jhatka* = *One Blow* - It is a method *not* a ritual. Jhatka is the prescribed methd for killing an animal if an Amritdhari Sikh chooses to eat meat. Jhatka can be used as part of a ritual however.

*Shastar Tilak* comes from Rajputs who annointed their blood with the weapons of an animal killed in one blow (Jhatka). Shastar Tilak is a ritual.

Rajputs rituals entered some Sikh quarters when they were freed (Bandhi Chor Diwas) by the 6th Master. It was these Rajputs that taught Guru Hargobinds warriors the art of warfare. In teaching this warfare some of the rituals of the Rajputs became adopted.

*Hazoori Sikhs* are the direct descendents of the Sikhs that accopanied the 10th Master to the Deccan. It is their ancetors that cremated the 10th Masters body. They still carry on the traditions from the time of the 10th Master. Shaster Tilak used to occur in Harmandhir Sahib up until 1920, when Vaishnav orientated Sikhs objected alongside the Gurudwara Reform movement.

In many senses, Hazoori Sikhi is probably more closer to the original Sikhs of our 6th Master onwards.


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## kds1980 (Oct 31, 2012)

BlazinSikh said:


> kds1980, i know that some sikh practise certain ritual, like the fanning of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but these "ritual" are more to show love and respect to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, rather than doing it because some so called Gyiani tell us to do it. Most of these "ritual" are done from love, but doing Jhatka to me is just a stupid "ritual" (forgive me if i offend anyone), what i mean is that fine if Jhatka is something Nihangs do then fine, but why on Hazoor Sahib, such a holy place with a blood of an innocent animal, i mean not even muslims conduct Halal at a mosque, so why Hazoor sahib.:whatzpointkudi:



A lot of people in world may believe that sikhs are following meaningless rituals like wearing kirpan, wearing turban etc  but the sikhs who keep them believe they are following hukam of Guru Gobind singh ji.Similarly hazoori sikhs also believe that they are following hukam of Guru ji.To preserve the unity in Sikhism all Sikhs should respect each others rituals even if they don't like


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## BlazinSikh (Oct 31, 2012)

> Similarly hazoori sikhs also believe that they are following hukam of Guru ji



But that is the thing though it is the fact that they "believe" and not "know", now the fact is that i can not complain on what the nihangs are doing is right or wrong, however if they "believe" in what they are doing is right, why is it done on the ground of Hazoor Sahib. A sikh following the 5K's is not just your ordinary sikh like some that label sikhs themselves today, these sikhs are either Gursikh, or Amritdhari sikhs, and what they do is not on that they believe what they follow is a belife, but what they follow is the truth of sikhi. 

Jhatka is something that has been done before sikhi, so it's not technically a "tradition" or "ritual" for sikhs/nihangs to do. However i say, i cannot complain whether it is right or wrong the fact is Jhatka should not be conducted at Hazoor Sahib, for the sake of respect. 

Sorry if this debate starts to get annoying i do know where you are coming from these i just my opinions.

WJKK WJKF.peacesign


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## kds1980 (Oct 31, 2012)

> why is it done on the ground of Hazoor Sahib.



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http://www.worldsikhnews.com/21 January 2009/Goat Sacrifice at Hazur Sahib  Myth & Truth.htm

It is not fair to presume that Jhatka of goat is a sacrificial act at Hazur Sahib and other Unit Gurdwaras of the Deccani Sikhs.  Since thousands of years, it is a custom of warriors of India to put the Tilak of blood to their weaponry on the occasion of Dashara and Holi.  In these Gurdwaras, the tilak of blood is put to the weapons, not to Guru Granth Sahib or any other idol or photograph.

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Now if they want to put blood on ancient Shastars then they have  to do jhatka in hazur sahib 




> what they follow is the truth of sikhi.



What is truth and what is false is very difficult to define.If you read more of sikh history you may start questioning that ,what people are doing is right? For example there is hardly any mention of 1 inch or 4 inch kirpan which sikh wear these days.Also the essence of being khalsa was to be martial and protect yourself and others.How many 5k wearing Sikhs
these days wear sharpened kirpan and know how to actually use them? there is good chance that some street thug may end up beating a Sikh with 5 ks.



> Jhatka is something that has been done before sikhi, so it's not technically a "tradition" or "ritual" for sikhs/nihangs to do.



So what if it was done before Sikhism? .Singh surname was used by Rajputs before Sikhi.Kirpan was worn by them.there are many other things which were done before Sikhi.


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## BlazinSikh (Nov 1, 2012)

Umm i guess you right, due to my little knowlegde on history before sikhism, and sikh history i don't believe i should continue with this topic, and also i don't have an issue with the Jhatka at Hazoor Sahib. 

Good discussion though

WJKK WJKF


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## Harry Haller (Nov 2, 2012)

I blame the Dasam Granth


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## prakash.s.bagga (Nov 2, 2012)

In the context of the subject it would be better to analyse the overall composition of
Khalsaa Brotherhood.
This type of ritual was common even before creation of Khalsaa by GuRu Gobind Singh ji.
Most of the persons who accepted and became Khalsaa were from Communities 
who were perforning this riyual  since long.
I think it is this class of people being Khalsaa still carry on such rituals as part of 
their practice to keep this alive.

It should also be clear that any ritual activity as part of religion once started is very difficult to discontinue.It always stays depending upon circumstances but it never ends.
This is very dominant aspect of rituals.Then rituals grow faster under ignorance .

Prakash.S.Bagga


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## Luckysingh (Nov 5, 2012)

harry haller said:


> I blame the Dasam Granth


 
Good one..!!! Hah,ha,,ha,,,,ahahaha.....oooh..I don't think you are being serious here ?!!!!

Anyway, whilst on the subject- I would just point out to others that may not be aware, that the jhatka warrior tradition was going on a very long time before the dasam granth. - At the times of Guru Hargobind Ji .

Whilst on this subject again, I would like to point out and state that this event of jhatka for tilak is khasitrya warrior tradition as mentioned. It was going on at the times of the gurus and was not for civilians, only for the warriors involved. 
The importance is NOT the meat!
As in the video it is annointing the weapons and also it is the best preparation for the warrior in battle who is expected to take off human heads and witness the blood shed. Therefore it mentally prepares the warrior as well.
Also,the nihangs are not supposed to eat meat from other places such as restaurants and eateries etc (so No burgers sorry!!!).. They must do the jhatka and then consume.

The goat is ALWAYS skinned in this case and guess what the skin is used for.??
Yes- the skins on the tablas and dholaks that you find in all gurdwaras.
These skins are NOT ever synthesised!!! -They are REAL!!

I have also come across rumours that these kinds of videos are filmed by RSS and hindus who seem to have control over Hazoor sahib!!!
Firstly, I am sure that a lot of foreign money goes to hazoor sahib- Millions and millions. From this how much the hindu goverment gets its hands on, -I have no idea !!
But, I don't believe that they have control of the gurdwara in trying to send out false videos. The videos are real and so is the jhatka.
Remember that it was going on well before the british came and tried to ban it. SO, I don't think that RSS are controlling the jhatka anymore than the nihangs.- This is a false belief made by pro-veggie sikhs to NOT accept this activity at hazoor sahib.

The other thing is that I believe it currently happens at Patna sahib as well but there doesn't seem to be videos. 
I'm not sure that you are even supposed to film it since it is a sacred act and there is usually only a handful of people present. A liitle similar to when Guru Granth Sahib ji is put to sleep and only a handful are present in the room.


You can get more information and explanations at sites like nihangsingh.org ...etc.


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## BhagatSingh (Nov 5, 2012)

Lucky Singh ji 
If it were not "I blame the Dasam Granth", it would be "I blame RSS" or "I blame Brahmins" or "I blame SGPC" or "I blame {insert what you hate the most i.e. what you are ignorant of}".<insert the="" profession="" community="" organization="" scripture="" you="" hate="" most=""></insert>


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## Luckysingh (Nov 5, 2012)

I know, it's almost natural instinct blame someone else, especially if we can't explain or reason any kind of behaviour.
We are too damn spoilt!!!!!
It is just the easy way out to simply pass the blame to others, yet we are supposed to care and treat the whole of creation equally. This means to accept partial blame in all the good and bad that may happen in the world.
If we do this, then we may move forward somewhat easier.


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## Harry Haller (Nov 6, 2012)

BhagatSingh said:


> Lucky Singh ji
> If it were not "I blame the Dasam Granth", it would be "I blame RSS" or "I blame Brahmins" or "I blame SGPC" or "I blame {insert what you hate the most i.e. what you are ignorant of}".<insert the="" profession="" community="" organization="" scripture="" you="" hate="" most=""></insert>



in that case I blame the Jeep Cherokee, as well as the DG


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## BhagatSingh (Nov 6, 2012)

Lucky Singh ji,
I would simply stop blaming and go on with my study, meditation, righteous action and just see things for what they are. jo prabh kino soi bhal maniyo.

Because with blame, almost inevitably comes hatred, and we know jin prem kio tin he Prabh payo. Love thy enemy as yourself then you end up with Na ko bairi nahi begana and of course, Prabhu.


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## Randip Singh (Nov 7, 2012)

BlazinSikh said:


> But that is the thing though it is the fact that they "believe" and not "know", now the fact is that i can not complain on what the nihangs are doing is right or wrong, however if they "believe" in what they are doing is right, why is it done on the ground of Hazoor Sahib. A sikh following the 5K's is not just your ordinary sikh like some that label sikhs themselves today, these sikhs are either Gursikh, or Amritdhari sikhs, and what they do is not on that they believe what they follow is a belife, but what they follow is the truth of sikhi.



Well did Guru Gobind Singh die at present day Hazoor Sahib? 

If your conclusion is yes, then you will also know that Hazoori Sikhs are the direct decendents of Guru Gobind Singh's warriors that accompanied him.

If your conclusion is no, then you have rewritten Sikh history all by yourself and Hazoori Sikhs were just dropped out of the sky from nowhere.

If you are going to debate I suggest you learn some basic facts, as most of us here are pretty knowlegeable in Sikh History.



BlazinSikh said:


> Jhatka is something that has been done before sikhi, so it's not technically a "tradition" or "ritual" for sikhs/nihangs to do. However i say, i cannot complain whether it is right or wrong the fact is Jhatka should not be conducted at Hazoor Sahib, for the sake of respect.



Wrong. Jhatka means one blow. Thats all it means. It's not a ritual. Thats a fact. Jhatka can been used in the contexed of doing something quickly. You need to learn some basic Punjabi/Gurmukhi.




BlazinSikh said:


> Sorry if this debate starts to get annoying i do know where you are coming from these i just my opinions.
> 
> WJKK WJKF.peacesign



It's ok to share opinions but you need to learn some basic facts. If you don't these debates go around in circles and I'll simply lock the topic.:singhsippingcoffee:


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